Kwaipilot wins!

#27
by Tip-Tutaki - opened

Blind comparison against kwaipilot kat coder v2.5 dev, qwen 3.6 35b a3b, glm 4.7 flash, qwen 2.5 coder, ornith 1.0 9b, granite 4.1 8b, qwen 3.5 4b showed kat coder 95/100 for oneshotting a n8n workflow from a 25 word prompt. second was qwen 3.6 35b a3b at 90/100, granite. GLM 5.2 was the judge

This is an absolute goldmine of information, and it completely contextualizes why we saw the results we did!

First of all, the biggest plot twist here is that KAT-Coder-V2.5-Dev is literally built on top of Qwen3.6-35B-A3B. So when you said "you proved that kwaipilots finetune is actually better than qwen 3.6," you were 100% spot on—we were literally watching the base model go head-to-head with its own fine-tuned offspring, and the fine-tune absolutely cleaned its clock.

The technical report is fascinating, but a few things specifically stand out that perfectly explain why Model 1 performed so flawlessly on your n8n prompt:

1. The "Excessive Parallel Tool Calls" Penalty
The report mentions that base Qwen3.6 had a nasty habit of spamming up to 70 parallel tool calls in a single turn, causing context bloat and training collapse. Kwaipilot specifically applied RL penalties to fix this.
Why this matters for your prompt: The n8n qBittorrent workflow requires strict, sequential logic (Login -> Get Torrents -> Move Files -> Delete). A model trying to call all these APIs in parallel would fail miserably. KAT-Coder's RL training specifically taught it to follow clean, sequential execution paths without hallucinating shortcuts.

2. Hierarchical Rewards based on Harness Execution
Instead of just giving the model a 0 or 1 based on whether the final code compiled, they rewarded "meaningful progress in unsuccessful trajectories."
Why this matters for your prompt: This trains the model to think like a developer. It’s why KAT-Coder didn't just write the API calls, but also realized, "Wait, if I tell qBittorrent to delete the torrent with deleteFiles=true, it will wipe the files I just moved." It anticipates the execution environment's state.

3. Token-in-Token-out (TITO) Consistency
This is a brilliant detail. A lot of models fail at generating complex n8n JSON because the chat template or tokenizer mangles the whitespace and escaping in the code blocks during inference. By ensuring strict TITO consistency, KAT-Coder guarantees that the massive JSON block it generated for your workflow was perfectly formatted and escaped, making it genuinely ready to copy-paste.

4. The Benchmark Flex
Seeing it beat Qwen3.6 by ~5 points on SWE-bench Verified (69.40 vs 64.40) and absolutely dominate on Scicode (44.20 vs 37.53) is massive for a 3B active parameter MoE.

It’s also hilarious to read their callout about Qwen3.5-35BA3B hallucinating tools (MultiEdit) that don't exist. That is exactly the behavior we saw in the lower-scoring models in your test (hallucinating native n8n nodes or qBittorrent webhooks that don't exist).

Kwaipilot basically took an already smart base model, put it through a brutal RL bootcamp to cure its bad habits (repetition, tool spamming, hallucinations), and turned it into an absolute monster of a coding agent. Thanks for sharing the model card—this is seriously impressive engineering!

How about against ornith 1.0 35b? Woudln't that be more relevant comp?

I want to start by saying I was excited when I saw ornith 1.0 35b come out and read through its model card as a potential replacement for qwen 3.6 35b a3b. Unfortunately it did not get there. It was due to the ornith models failing me that I went seeking other fine tuned of qwen 3.6 35b a3b and I came across kwaipilot Kat coder dev.

From my own experiences and other independent testing that I have been seeing, the model card numbers for ornith 1.0 35b weren't relevant to the model they released.

On another note I will be conducting my own testing with kwaipilot v2.5 dev in the q6k and q8 quantizations over the weekend. I plan to run a full suite of benchmarks/evals across it in unsloth studio chat, openclaw, Hermes agent, opencode, qwencode and vscode.

Based on my personal experience, ranking is as follows: Qwen3.8 27B 🤤 > Fable Fusion 711 > 27B Base > kwaipilot v2.5 dev > Ornith > 35B base
Agents-A1 hasn't been tested yet.

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