Captive Dreamer (i wanna do one too)
I've been following the discussions around your Cara dataset, and I wanted to share some thoughts from the perspective of someone interested in the long-term relationship between the AI and artist communities. While your dataset has certainly garnered attention, it's important to note that it's not the first or only one of its kind. Similar link collections have been circulating for some time now. The real issue at hand is the underlying security vulnerabilities in Cara's platform that allow for this type of data collection in the first place.
This brings me to the recent development with Hugging Face's August 27th deadline for removing usernames and metadata from your dataset. While I understand the principle of the matter, I worry that prolonging this particular battle may do more harm than good in the grand scheme of things for it.
We're at a critical juncture in the relationship between the AI and artist communities. Many artists are understandably concerned about the use of their data, even if it's technically public. For them, the existence of a user data list, even from a defunct dataset, could be seen as a breach of trust, regardless of the legal technicalities. In my view, the most productive path forward would be to focus on addressing the root issue - the security flaws in platforms like Cara. Continuing to press on the username issue, while principled, risks distracting from that central point and further straining the relationship between our communities. I believe we have an opportunity here to demonstrate that the AI community is listening and that we respect artists' concerns. Every action we take now will shape the future of AI-art collaboration.
But of course, you will make your own decisions based on your principles and goals. As an outside observer, my role is simply to offer a perspective, not to dictate actions. I hope that, whatever the outcome of this specific situation, we can all work towards a future where AI and the arts can coexist and even thrive together. Open dialogue and mutual understanding will be key to that future. The story of the OG Scraper and The Friendly Neighborhood Artist showed me that we can meet in the middle. Mending our communities that once meshed together is something we should have equally celebrated.
I think this dataset risks hurting the message of the OG Scraper. It also puts him at risk as people think that he is still responsible for it. Any drama befalling him on behalf of this dataset is because of it's appearance the day after everyone shook hands. I feel this dataset only hurts him, specifically, and his credibility as a person.
Just some thoughts from me on my alt.
The story of the OG Scraper and The Friendly Neighborhood Artist showed me that we can meet in the middle. Mending our communities that once meshed together is something we should have equally celebrated.
Please do not use The Friendly Neighborhood Artist as an example of meeting in the middle. I joined her Discord server and was met with endless insults, and when I joined the cara.app Discord server, I was banned immediately.
These people have shown that they do not want any serious discussion. They would rather email HF, sign petitions, hire lawyers, and even contact politicians(!!!) over a compilation of URLs than actually improve their security. Completely unhinged and unserious people.
The story of the OG Scraper and The Friendly Neighborhood Artist showed me that we can meet in the middle. Mending our communities that once meshed together is something we should have equally celebrated.
Please do not use The Friendly Neighborhood Artist as an example of meeting in the middle. I joined her Discord server and was met with endless insults, and when I joined the cara.app Discord server, I was banned immediately.
These people have shown that they do not want any serious discussion. They would rather email HF, sign petitions, hire lawyers, and even contact politicians(!!!) over a compilation of URLs than actually improve their security. Completely unhinged and unserious people.
I'm troubled by your response. I joined the Discord servers you mentioned and had a very different experience from what you describe. Far from "endless insults" and immediate bans, I encountered individuals engaging in thoughtful discussion and even collaborating across community lines. There was an artist openly sharing their process of integrating AI into their work, for example. I did not expect that. I am not sure what happened during your experience there, but I also will go back to see what you said in the community to confirm how you were treated.
Even still, others have admitted that many artists enjoy AI, like my experience. This kind of broad-brush condemnation and refusal to engage in good faith is exactly what's hampering progress and understanding between our communities. The issues at stake here - data privacy, intellectual property, the future of creative work - are complex and emotionally charged. They evoke strong feelings and firmly held beliefs on all sides. That's all the more reason to approach them with empathy, nuance, and a commitment to honest dialogue.
When we mischaracterize each other's positions, shut down communication, or resort to personal attacks, we only deepen the divides and make it harder to find common ground. We end up fighting over caricatures instead of engaging with the real, human concerns at the heart of these debates. I am an AI Artist, and I want to have meaningful dialogue on all sides. I understand the frustration of feeling like your perspective isn't being heard or respected. A lot of people here are being hard on you. But the answer can't be to respond in kind with dismissal and deception. If we want to move forward, we have to be willing to model the kind of behavior we want to see - even, and especially, when others aren't extending us the same courtesy.
That means continuing to reach out, to listen, and to look for opportunities for collaboration and mutual understanding. It means calling out misinformation and bad faith arguments when we see them, but not using them to paint entire communities with a broad brush. Most of all, it means remembering the shared humanity in each other, even when we disagree.
I still believe that the story of the OG Scraper and the Friendly Neighborhood Artist shows what's possible when we approach each other with openness and respect. One contentious interaction, or even several, doesn't negate that example - it just shows how much work we still have to do. I'm sure every AI Artist has had some backlash at some point, like myself, and I know there has to be a better way.
I hope you'll reconsider your stance and be part of that work. The future of AI and art is too important to be derailed by the kind of divisive rhetoric in your last message. We need voices like yours to be part of a constructive dialogue, not contributing to a cycle of mistrust and antagonism. Also, in another thread I stated that Cara is a volunteer basis and who knows where those volunteers are at. If no one is available to fix the site, how do we know someone can fix it?
I'm still committed to that dialogue, and to the belief that we can find a way forward together. I hope you'll join me in that commitment.
I joined the Discord servers you mentioned and had a very different experience from what you describe. Far from "endless insults" and immediate bans, I encountered individuals
Is it really that big of a mystery why they treated you differently? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I'm the owner of this repo and you aren't? Just a guess.
I am not sure what happened during your experience there, but I also will go back to see what you said in the community to confirm how you were treated.
So you don't know what happened, yet you're still hinting that I'm at fault? Got it.
That means continuing to reach out
I did, actually. Re-read my first reply. Do you think I'm going to beg to talk to them? If they ban me (cara.app) or insult me for no reason (nimis discord mods), they are the ones who closed the door on communication.
Considering you created this repository basically solely to ragebait them, is it really that surprising that they aren't interested in communicating with you? The security suggestions aren't exactly difficult and you aren't the only one capable of giving them.
Considering you created this repository basically solely to ragebait them, is it really that surprising that they aren't interested in communicating with you?
I know right? I got no idea why cyberstardust was "troubled" by my response, the weird thing would be if they were NOT offensive to me, in my opinion.
The security suggestions aren't exactly difficult and you aren't the only one capable of giving them.
okay? Never said they needed me? lol