Source: https://answers.echinacities.com/question/bear-me-please-fine-people?type=alatest
Timestamp: 2018-02-23 06:52:42
Document Index: 577347000

Matched Legal Cases: ['art. 43', 'art. 40', 'art. 80', 'art. 44', 'art. 80', 'art. 44', 'art. 43', 'art. 40', 'art. 80', 'art. 44', 'art. 80', 'art. 44']

Bear with me please, fine people- eChinacities Answers | echinacities
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Q: Bear with me please, fine people
On behalf of my colleague, please provide an answer to the questions below.
(This is for the benefit of my colleague who is in this situation)
Can you work in a city other than the one which issued your resident permit legally?
Is there any grey areas, such as working for the same company but in a different city to the one in which your got your RP?
1 year 13 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
If the FEC is issued for different city (it never is), then I guess, it's OK. I don't know rules, but usually it's always the same city: RP&FEC (work area).
From what I've read the answer is no. Though I've read of it happening a lot.
Your employed by company A "Guangzhou blah blah Education"
Your work permit is issued to work for "Shenzhen blah blah Education" & your resident permit is also issued in Shenzhen.
I understand that head office of blah blah education does it this way because the SZ company is licensed to employ foreigners but the GZ company isn't.
There could be a number of reasons why "GZ blah blah education" can't employ foreigners:
1) Schools have to be open a certain number of years before they can employ foreigners (not clear on how many)
2) A company has to be a particular type (Limited) to employ foreigners (I had this once a number of years ago). It's cheaper to open a non-limited company so sub-branches in other cities are opened on the cheap and head-office employs the foreigners.
That's my understanding for what its worth.
Will your friend get in trouble? Don't know
My understanding is about the same as yours. And I also don't know the extent of trouble.
Gary Chodorow, an immigration lawyer who is on the ball, says on his Law and Border website:
it’s illegal to work in China beyond the scope of the work specified in the employment license (“出工作许可限定范围在中国境内工作的”). (EEAL, art. 43(2)). The draft State Council regulations clarified that this includes working at a different work unit or outside of the geographic area specified in the employment license (工作许可证件) are restricted. (Draft State Council regs, art. 40).
I would be more inclined to believe Gary rather than a local "Foreign Affairs" worker in the company. Especially since he, and not the foreign affairs girl (who has an interest in recruiting at any cost) can actually quote the statute whereas the girl is just regurgitating what she's been told to say.
As to the penalties, he goes on to say: For a foreigner who engages in “unauthorized employment” (非法就业), a fine of 5000 to 20,000 RMB will be imposed. In serious circumstances, detention of five to 15 days may also be imposed. (EEAL, art. 80). Prior rules allowed fines not exceeding 1000 RMB but not detention. (Implementing Rules for the Foreigner Entry-Exit Administration Law, promulgated by the Ministries of Public Security and Foreign Affairs, April 24, 2010 art. 44.) Persons or companies that illegally employ foreigners may be fined 10,000 RMB per foreigner, not to exceed a total of 100,000 RMB. Any illegal gains may be confiscated. (EEAL, art. 80). Prior rules allowed for fines not exceeding 50,000 RMB. (2010 Implementing Rules, art. 44).
My understanding is about the same as yours. And I also don\'t know the extent of trouble. Gary Chodorow, an immigration lawyer who is on the ball, says on his Law and Border website: it’s illegal to work in China beyond the scope of the work specified in the employment license (“出工作许可限定范围在中国境内工作的”). (EEAL, art. 43(2)). The draft State Council regulations clarified that this includes working at a different work unit or outside of the geographic area specified in the employment license (工作许可证件) are restricted. (Draft State Council regs, art. 40). I would be more inclined to believe Gary rather than a local "Foreign Affairs" worker in the company. Especially since he, and not the foreign affairs girl (who has an interest in recruiting at any cost) can actually quote the statute whereas the girl is just regurgitating what she\'s been told to say. As to the penalties, he goes on to say: For a foreigner who engages in “unauthorized employment” (非法就业), a fine of 5000 to 20,000 RMB will be imposed. In serious circumstances, detention of five to 15 days may also be imposed. (EEAL, art. 80). Prior rules allowed fines not exceeding 1000 RMB but not detention. (Implementing Rules for the Foreigner Entry-Exit Administration Law, promulgated by the Ministries of Public Security and Foreign Affairs, April 24, 2010 art. 44.) Persons or companies that illegally employ foreigners may be fined 10,000 RMB per foreigner, not to exceed a total of 100,000 RMB. Any illegal gains may be confiscated. (EEAL, art. 80). Prior rules allowed for fines not exceeding 50,000 RMB. (2010 Implementing Rules, art. 44).
Another thought just occurred to me.....if your RP is in one city and you work in another, will the mandatory requirement to register at your local police station cause any drama? And what if the police visit your home?
Remember that to get your RP in a different city, the company would have had to fudge a police registration in that city.
We have been getting a lot of police checks in apartments and places foreigner work in the past week down in this sleepy town. I, personally, have had police check my visa, the tax dept check my tax and had a visit at home recently....note: it wasn't just me
Another thought just occurred to me.....if your RP is in one city and you work in another, will the mandatory requirement to register at your local police station cause any drama? And what if the police visit your home?Remember that to get your RP in a different city, the company would have had to fudge a police registration in that city. We have been getting a lot of police checks in apartments and places foreigner work in the past week down in this sleepy town. I, personally, have had police check my visa, the tax dept check my tax and had a visit at home recently....note: it wasn\'t just me
"if your RP is in one city and you work in another, will the mandatory requirement to register at your local police station cause any drama? And what if the police visit your home?"
My previous WP & RP were issued in Shunde but I was, and still do, live in Guangzhou.
When I applied for the RP in Shunde, after the WP had been issued, the officer dealing with me noticed my address on my temporary registration from and questioned me on this. He was quite satisfied with my response that I planned to stay living in GZ as my wife worked in the city and they I'd drive to work (though he did ask to see my driving license)
I've had the local street centre people knock on my door a few times while doing their regular residential checks and they've never once asked to see my WP, only my passport/RP. In fact, thinking about it, they've not been round for a year or so now......but I've lived in the same place 3 years now and always make sure my registration is up to date.
"if your RP is in one city and you work in another, will the mandatory requirement to register at your local police station cause any drama? And what if the police visit your home?" My previous WP & RP were issued in Shunde but I was, and still do, live in Guangzhou. When I applied for the RP in Shunde, after the WP had been issued, the officer dealing with me noticed my address on my temporary registration from and questioned me on this. He was quite satisfied with my response that I planned to stay living in GZ as my wife worked in the city and they I\'d drive to work (though he did ask to see my driving license) I\'ve had the local street centre people knock on my door a few times while doing their regular residential checks and they\'ve never once asked to see my WP, only my passport/RP. In fact, thinking about it, they\'ve not been round for a year or so now......but I\'ve lived in the same place 3 years now and always make sure my registration is up to date.
would SAFEA be able to help ?
I would expect SAFEA could help but like all dealings with govt bodies, once they are involved the beast can take on a life of its own and may bite you.
Yes, providing you have a base in the city where the RP was issued and any taxes, insurance payments etc., are paid to the government in that city. The business licence attached to the RP would also have a registered bank account that payments should go into and come out of. That would be in the same city as the RP was issued.
Think of it in terms of a business man that regularly has to travel to other cities in order to do his job. Provided his registered office is in the city where the RP was issued, it is irrelevant what other cities he goes to for business purposes.
You raise an interesting point about where the tax is paid. One may expect the city in which a person is working wants the tax revenue from that person.
It makes me wonder if the company is paying him and paying tax in a city other than where the RP is registered...... might be another thing to raise eyebrows. As I mentioned, they recently checked my tax payments for the past 2 years.
Seems to be several areas that no one has considered before being raised here.
BTW, The situation isn't a businessman, it is just a guy working for a company.
Nope, it is actually quite clearly stated. Each branch is like a different company in that city.
You yourself (your friend) should know the law because Chinese will just lie to get you to do what they want
I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is in our own interests to understand the laws in regard to visas. Ignorance of the law is no excuse anywhere however here, you can expect to not recieve the complete story from foreign affairs people because it is in their interest to sign you up. And if you get caught or something goes wrong they can happily throw you under the bus.
iWolfe, the straight legal answer is no but then again from your posts, you seem to skip over legality.
I have worked in a city that did not have my RP for 5 years
Marcos, dude, you are trying too hard. It's coming across as needy, desperate and a bit pathetic. Chill.
Questing title : Bear with me please, fine people Questing description : <p>On behalf of my colleague, please provide an answer to the questions below.</p> <p>(This is for the benefit of my colleague who is in this situation)</p> <p>Can you work in a city other than the one which issued your resident permit legally?</p> <p>Is there any grey areas, such as working for the same company but in a different city to the one in which your got your RP?</p>
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