Source: http://www.hansard.gov.yk.ca/29-legislature/session1/183_dec_9_1999.html
Timestamp: 2018-01-23 04:05:48
Document Index: 636182521

Matched Legal Cases: ['arts 6', 'art 6', 'art 7', 'arts 6', 'arts 6', 'art 6', 'art 7', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 6', 'art 6', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7', 'art 7']

29th Legislature, Session 1, Thursday, December 9, 1999 - 1:30 p.m.
Thursday, December 9, 1999 - 1:30 p.m.
We will bow our heads for a few minutes, please.
Speaker: We will continue with the Order Paper.
Are there any returns or documents for tabling?
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Speaker, I have two returns for tabling.
Are there any petitions?
Are there any notices of motions?
Are there any statements by ministers?
Question re: Tombstone Park, mining claims
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, I have some questions for the Minister of Renewable Resources.
The Tombstone steering committee has submitted its final boundary recommendations to the government. There are about 75 to 85 legitimately staked mineral claims within that draft boundary.
The minister was asked on October 1 this year how he planned to deal with those claims. He said that the issue was unresolved.
The minister also said at that time that he was waiting for the steering committee to make its final recommendations. The minister has had those recommendations for some time now. What decision has been reached, and what does the government plan to do about the claims?
Hon. Mr. Fairclough: It's kind of timely that the member is asking these questions. She knows that we are doing an announcement this afternoon: a press release on Tombstone.
Mr. Speaker, I have said time and time again in this House that the Tombstone process is as a result of the claims process, the Tr'ondëk Hwëch'in First Nation final agreement. It sets out in there a steering committee to look at boundaries for a proposed park. They have done that. And it also states in the claims that a third party should be respected, and we're following the claims.
Ms. Duncan: Well, Mr. Speaker, of course it's timely. The minister indicated there was a media conference scheduled this afternoon. It is entirely appropriate, from this open and accountable NDP government, that we should hear answers on these questions.
If the Yukon ends up with a mine in the middle of an expanded Tombstone Park, it's because of the major screw-up by the NDP government. By failing to act to have the land withdrawn from staking for the proposed expansion of Tombstone, the NDP has brought us to the point where we have legitimate claims and a potential mine in this area.
Despite a 1,000-name petition, and a lot of flowery talk from the NDP about saving parkland, it took the government seven months after it took office to ask for the land to be withdrawn. The NDP has betrayed the Dawson First Nation, environmentalists and, at the same time, introduced more uncertainty for an already reeling mining industry.
This lack of leadership is frightening. What decision has been reached, and what does the government plan to do about the claims?
Hon. Mr. Fairclough: One thing we're going to be doing on this side of the House - the government - is respecting First Nation final agreements. The Liberals might not want to do that; they might want to go on their own process. They said that the YPAS didn't work. That's what they said in this Legislature. I asked them to go back and talk to the people of Vuntut Gwitchin and say that the YPAS didn't work when there is going to be a creation of a protected area in their traditional territory.
Mr. Speaker, I have said to the member opposite that we are respecting land claims agreements; it speaks to third party interests, and we still have a lot of time to be working on what exactly is going to take place within the park. The steering committee will be working on a management plan over the next year or two, and in there it will state what is to take place. At this point in time, right now, those responsibilities in regard to the claims are still in federal hands.
Ms. Duncan: The draft study area for the Tombstone Park contained land that was not in the original park or in the study area. Can the minister tell the House under what authority this land was selected? I've asked in general debate for an answer to this question, but the minister has yet to provide one. Why was land outside the study area considered for inclusion in the park? Has any land outside the study area been included in the final park boundaries to be announced this afternoon?
Hon. Mr. Fairclough: Yes, there is, Mr. Speaker. There is land - not a huge part - that is outside of the study area, and inside. What we did is provide the steering committee with a study area that had a rough area that we thought could be a park, with the work that the department has done.
I think that the steering committee did a very good job in doing a lot of research, and they had a lot of public meetings about this, workshops, and had a lot of comments and feedback to them to decide what the boundaries are going to be. What they have done is to look at landscape and look at an easier way of having the park surveyed, and we took that into consideration and accepted their recommendation.
Mr. Speaker, the claims that are staked within the Tombstone boundaries are mentioned in the First Nation final agreements, and they should be respected, and we'll be following the First Nation final agreements. They are grandfathered in as a result of the First Nation final agreements.
Question re: New Year's Eve, assistance to people requiring care
Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Community and Transportation Services, and that is the department that administers the Emergency Measures Organization here in the Yukon.
Mr. Speaker, earlier this year, on Hallowe'en night, many Yukoners had an opportunity to test out their emergency plans because power went out for some of us for many, many hours. Luckily it wasn't very cold that night, because we found out that there were people who did not have heat in their homes for a very long time.
Mr. Speaker, even if the power doesn't go out on New Year's Eve, there are people who fear that other essential services, like food and phone services and some emergency services, will be interrupted. The most vulnerable are citizens like those with mobility problems or those who are sick, shut-ins and the elderly. They need to be checked to see if they are okay.
Has the department made up a list of people in the various Yukon communities who will be checked in the event of problems on New Year's Eve this year, and, Mr. Speaker, who will be the people who check - the RCMP or EMO personnel?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the very fine group of volunteers as categorized by the Emergency Measures Organization and their coordinators in the communities are, at this point in time, preparing themselves for just such an event. They are looking to do things, of course, in conjunction with the RCMP.
Mrs. Edelman: The next question, Mr. Speaker: what if the interruption in service lasts for a very long time? Has there been a central location set aside in each of the Yukon communities to house any of those who need to be cared for?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Speaker, in each of the communities, places such as the schools and community halls, et cetera, are being made available for just such an emergency, and again that's due to the fine work in each of the communities by the Emergency Measures Organization people.
Mrs. Edelman: The last question, Mr. Speaker: has there been money set aside or budgeted for a problem - if there is one at all - on New Year's Eve?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Speaker, this government has been working toward this preparedness for a couple of years at this point in time, on Y2K preparations. We do have that preparation taking place, and of course we still have our emergency measures operational budget which could be used for just such a purpose.
Question re: Education, technical and trade programs at Robert Service School
Mr. Jenkins: I have a question for the Minister of Education. The minister often rises in this House and pats herself on the back about working with the partners in education. Well, Mr. Speaker, that's not always the case. Some of my constituents in Dawson, including the Tr'ondëk Hwëch'in First Nation, have been attempting for several years now to establish accredited trade programs at Robert Service School.
The program would begin at grade 8 and would include, among other things, small engine mechanics, welding, basic car care, woodworking and carpentry. This program has the support of the school council and the First Nation. The Department of Education was asked to implement such a program last June, and I know the minister is aware of this request.
I'd like to ask the minister what she is prepared to do in this regard.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: The member asked this question in Committee earlier this week. I provided him with a legislative return. The department is working with the concerned parents and educators and the school council on options for increasing the technical programs at Robert Service School.
Mr. Jenkins: Well, here we go again. The mail system in this building must be atrocious, because the minister says she provided a legislative return - I have yet to see it, Mr. Speaker.
The former chief, Chief Taylor, perhaps said it best when he stated, "Given the nature of the predominant industries in Dawson City, it makes very good sense to give our youth a head start in improving their chances for future employment by offering trade-related courses."
Does the minister not agree?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Well, Mr. Speaker, it's a rare event. I agree with the member, and we're working with the community to be able to deliver on increasing technical programs at Robert Service School.
Mr. Speaker, I filed a legislative return in this House on December 6. I'm sorry if the member doesn't have a copy. I will be happy, after Question Period, to have the page make an additional copy for the member.
Mr. Jenkins: Currently, 60 percent of the students in our area wish to pursue the trade and technical field, but courses of this nature are not being offered at Robert Service School. Funding accredited trade programs would help prepare these students to enter into the workforce.
I would like the minister to make a commitment that she will instruct her department to offer such courses next year at Robert Service School in Dawson City.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated to the member, the department is working with the school council, with the administration of Robert Service School and with parents on this issue. There are a number of employment-related programs for youth. We do want to offer good trades education for our youth, and the department is working on it with the Dawson community.
Question re: Whitehorse waterfront development, appropriation of funds
Mr. Jenkins: I have a question for the Minister of Government Services.
Mr. Speaker, last April in this House we debated and passed the Second Appropriation Act, 1999-2000. A supplementary estimate requested an additional $8.5 million in spending authority for the 1999-2000 fiscal year. Part of this funding request was made by the Department of Government Services, and it was for $1.4 million for waterfront development in the City of Whitehorse.
I'd like to ask the minister if he can assure this House that the full $1.4 million authorized by this House will actually be spent on the Whitehorse waterfront beautification, or was part of the money spent elsewhere?
Hon. Mr. Sloan: In the supplementary there was $1.4 million identified, and it was not broken down in the tabled budget. The breakdown is $500,000 for waterfront development, $750,000 for infrastructure development and $150,000 for other waterfront work by PMA, the property management agency.
Mr. Jenkins: Well, Mr. Speaker, it was all related to the Whitehorse waterfront, and it was revealed earlier in this Legislature that more than half - $750,000 to be exact - is being spent on a sewer and water project that is nowhere near the waterfront. This is a serious misappropriation of funds, and I would like to ask the minister if he believes he has the authority to ignore the will of this Legislature and to spend the public's money wherever he sees fit.
Hon. Mr. Sloan: No, that's just absurd, Mr. Speaker. That was contained in the appropriation. If the member had wanted a breakout, why didn't he ask at the time?
I would say he would be derelict in his duties if he didn't seek clarification. We have always been very clear in the fact that we considered waterfront and infrastructure development to be key to the development of Whitehorse and, indeed, in the territory. I don't see what the problem is. The money was contained in the budget. It was identified under property management, common facilities, and the question could have been raised. We would have been happy to provide a clarification for the member.
Mr. Jenkins: The capital funding agreement between the Government of Yukon and the City of Whitehorse clearly defines, on the last page, the boundaries of the Whitehorse waterfront. And the money - the $750,000 - was spent outside those boundaries, and the misappropriation of this $750,000 is a serious charge, and I will be bringing it to the attention of the Auditor General of Canada and will be asking his office to investigate. So I'd like the minister to tell us what he's going to do, and what he's going to do for a defence.
Hon. Mr. Sloan: Defence? Is the member contending that there was some kind of misappropriation of funds by me? Is he contending that perhaps this money was taken and used improperly? The money is designed to go to the City of Whitehorse for infrastructure development. It is going directly to the City of Whitehorse for infrastructure development. Now, if the member had an issue at supplementary, I would suggest that he should have raised it then.
Question re: Public/private partnerships, government support
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, I have some questions for the Government Leader. The government has completely reversed their position with regard to public/private partnerships, or P3s. The government is currently working on two public/private partnerships: one with Autumn Industries and one with Northwestel. The Liberal caucus introduced a motion on the idea of public/private partnerships and spoke in support of using them, to build public infrastructure such as roads or schools. That was on April 8, 1998. On that day, the NDP was against P3s. The Member for Watson Lake said on that day, "I believe it's a dangerous game to play to pre-commit future public sector revenues... So, in closing, Mr. Speaker, I support government searching and coming up with innovative ways but I don't ... agree..." with P3s.
They're opposed. They support them. Why has the government's position on this issue completely changed?
Hon. Mr. McDonald: The simple answer, Mr. Speaker, is that it hasn't completely changed. In fact, it hasn't changed at all. So, while I really, really, really wanted to agree with the opposition leader for once in the House, I can't. She has denied me yet another opportunity to agree with her.
The government has historically had many agreements with the private sector. The issue that was raised at the time that the motion debate came forward was a suggestion that the government should borrow very large amounts of money in order to undertake projects that had limited value to a broad section of the public.
I naturally expressed some concern about those kinds of arrangements. We do not want to mortgage our children's future. We want to ensure that the investments that we do make are strategic investments, and, because they affect a large number of people in this territory, they will ensure that we have the greatest chance of economic survival, and, of course, we will from time to time - and we actually routinely have partnerships with the business community to do one thing or another. There are probably a few hundred of such arrangements in operation currently as we speak.
So, to suggest that we are opposed to working with the business community is, of course, completely wrong. To suggest that we are opposed to large mortgages with limited value - we are of course anxious about that. So, we do believe that they are good opportunities, but they will be measured ones.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, the word "borrow" did not appear anywhere in the motion brought forward by the Liberals. The motion talked about private/public partnerships - or a P3 model, as it's commonly referred to - and it urged the government to explore them. On that day, the government, the NDP, was against the private/public partnerships, and it's stated clearly in the record.
The Member for Whitehorse West said this, "These were notions that were popularized by the Thatcher regime in Britain. I suppose we can understand why. They were a good fit with right-wing Conservative governments." The Member for Whitehorse West said as well, "I don't think we can mortgage our children's future. I think we have to pay our own way."
And he went on for about 20 minutes about the evils of P3s. Now that same member stood in the House on Monday and said they were a good idea. He said that you can wait and wait, or you can decide that you can move the process ahead by entering into a public/private partnership. And he was referring to the recent agreement between the government and Northwestel.
What a difference 18 months makes. Can the Government Leader explain the complete turnaround on the issue of public/private partnerships?
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Once again, Mr. Speaker, the member denies me an opportunity to agree with her. I wanted to, again, and I was searching for something, some little glimmer of hope in her question that would allow me to agree with something that she said.
Mr. Speaker, the government, 10 years ago, had partnerships with the private sector - many partnerships with the private sector - on all kinds of fronts, for everything from office space to road construction. Ten years ago, the same was true; five years ago, the same was true; today it's true; five years from now it'll be true; 10 years from now it'll be true. So, partnerships with the private sector are an ongoing reality in this territory, and they're good for public and private business.
The subtext of the motion, Mr. Speaker, the unwritten subtext of the motion, was that there was a lobby - I think led by the member herself, but perhaps by others - to see the Government of Yukon get into a major capital construction program with borrowed money. The notion of getting into a major capital construction program with borrowed money, with no immediate short-term benefits known in economic terms, of course made us extremely nervous, because this is what has led in the past to huge government deficits.
So, we could not agree with the Liberal proposal, but, when it came to making decisions about whether or not to have relationships with the private sector, that of course we agreed to.
Speaker: The minister's time has expired.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, the Government Leader has said he's searching for something he can agree with me on. He could agree that the government changed its mind, because that's what happened.
The public/private partnership model that was put forward - all the motion asked the government to do was examine the model, and if he's looking for a subtext, look for the continual references to schools. This government's very fond of building new schools.
The NDP government has fully embraced this idea that was brought forward, and we have noted today that, although they thought it was a bad idea 18 months ago, now they fully support it.
I noted earlier that the NDP promises really aren't worth the paper they're printed on, because they're continually broken - wolf kill, open and accountable government, and the list goes on.
Will we be seeing more of the P3 partnerships?
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Speaker, you know what got the Liberals into trouble in Nova Scotia? What got the Liberals into trouble and got them defeated was their proposal to build $100-million worth of schools in the election year, with borrowed money - all suggesting that this new arrangement was somehow going to improve the economy and make a major difference.
We have a history, Mr. Speaker, in this territory of building schools and roads on a pay-as-you-go basis. We think that's good public business. We think that the fact that we don't have that kind of debt in those areas is good public business.
Mr. Speaker, when the members opposite suggested that we get into major capital construction programs with borrowed money of this nature, we felt that it was not wise, and we said so.
We did not say, Mr. Speaker, that we should not have business relationships with business, because, of course, not only have we had them, we continue to have them, and they are good business relationships that do produce good benefits for the public.
So, Mr. Speaker, I have to disagree. We did not change our position. We still are nervous about the Liberal notion that they can simply spend their way out of economic misfortune - we don't agree with that and suggested that they just look to other Liberals in the country who tried to do the same and have failed, and suggest that what we are doing, Mr. Speaker, is good for the economy of the territory and is fiscally responsible.
Question re: Old Crow, proposed multi-use facility
Mr. Phillips: My question is for the Minister of Education. Last month during debate on Education, I raised a number of questions about the different uses of schools in rural Yukon and whether the minister was supportive of schools serving as facilities for the benefit of the entire community. The minister replied, "The schools in Yukon - particularly in rural Yukon but Whitehorse schools as well - are community centres. They do become used for a number of activities in the evenings and on weekends that accommodate the needs of the broader school, as well as of the school-aged population."
In October, a press release announcing the latest round of community development fund project approvals was issued by the government that included $65,000 for the completion of an engineering and feasibility study for a multi-use facility in Old Crow. In light of the newly constructed multi-million-dollar school in Old Crow and in view of the minister's support for schools as community facilities, I'd like to ask the minister why another department of the government is now looking at building a multi-use facility in Old Crow, when she told us that that's what the school is going to do?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: As you know, the new school in Old Crow does serve as a multi-use facility and is a tremendous benefit to the community. Mr. Speaker, I do not have details of the CDF project that the member has asked about here with me in the House, but I can absolutely assure him that the school will continue to be a facility for the benefit of the entire community of Old Crow.
Mr. Phillips: We support that on this side. We think it's a good idea to use schools in the small communities as community facilities. The problem I have, Mr. Speaker, is that the Minister of Education was one of the members of Cabinet who must have approved the community development funding for a multi-use centre study in Old Crow - $65,000 - and we just spent, I think, in the neighbourhood of $10 million for what we were told in this House was a similar multi-use facility.
All I'm trying to find out from the minister is if the right hand knew what the left hand was doing, and if the money for the multi-use facility that they're now planning to spend - the planning money - could be better spent, because we already have just completed building a multi-purpose facility in Old Crow.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Speaker, I understand that the engineering study for the facility in Old Crow is related to the arena. There is not an arena in the new Chief Zzeh Gittlit School in Old Crow.
Mr. Phillips: Mr. Speaker, there is a covered skating rink. It was built during the Yukon Party's government. It was a skating rink that had a special canopy put on it. I believe it cost about half a million dollars for the facility. The CDF funding talks about a multi-purpose facility in Old Crow, and I'm wondering why the two departments didn't get together.
We have a school in Riverdale, Vanier school, where I had another parent call me yesterday about her daughter who had to have an operation on her knee because her knee is ruined because of the floor, and the government is crying poverty there.
All I'm trying to find out is if the government is causing duplication because they're not communicating between departments. Maybe the money could be better spent on fixing a floor where students are continually getting injured. Wouldn't the minister consider that as a better or a wiser use of allocating dollars?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that the member needs to do a better job of doing his homework before he comes into this Legislature. I'm sorry if the member disagrees with doing an engineering study to look at the arena and having change rooms and year-round use available for the arena in Old Crow. It would be nice if he would support development of community facilities in Old Crow.
In relation to the Vanier school gym floor, which he bootlegged into that question, I have indicated to that member several times in this House that we are working with the school council. We acknowledge that they have requested that the floor be their first funding priority and, at the present time, as I have said to the member many times, the study is being done on the floor to confirm what the problem may be and how it needs to be addressed.
Question re: FAS, inmate survey
Mr. Cable: I have some questions for the Minister of Justice.
Last year, the minister said that the government was planning a survey of the inmates of the jail in order to come up with firm numbers on how many inmates suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome. Where do we sit with this survey? Do we have some firm numbers on how many inmates suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: As the member is aware, we have amended the Public Health and Safety Act to provide for mandatory reporting of FAS numbers. That is a medical diagnosis. The survey in the Correctional Centre will be a non-intrusive assessment of all offender files to give us a preliminary screening for indicators of possible FAS. That file review will also look for whether a medical diagnosis of FAS has ever been made.
Mr. Cable: The government announced this survey over 15 months ago, and it wasn't dependent on the act that we passed this session. The problem had been recognized long before the survey was announced. At the time of the announcement, one of the people active in working with FAS sufferers talked about the reason why many FAS sufferers who have problems as teenagers wind up on the treadmill of the courts and jail. She was quoted as saying, "The odds are probably pretty good that they'll end up in jail, or on the streets, or die very early in life."
Surely, after this length of time, we have some grasp of the dimensions of the problem. What are her corrections officials telling her? Is the percentage of inmates with FAS of the order of 10 percent, or 20 percent, or 50 percent?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: It's important to acknowledge that participation in diagnostic activities by offenders will be completely voluntary. The needs assessment protocol is still being reviewed for its scientific soundness. I can tell the member that the Department of Justice has a long interest and involvement in issues affecting FAS. Recently, when Debbie Evenson was here from Alaska, as part of the early intervention conference that we funded, she spent some time with correctional and community services branch staff on a half-day workshop on learning strategies and interventions for offenders with FAS.
As well, we have provided FAS kits, which were prepared by the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Society of the Yukon, and have recently supported the Options for Independent Living and have a new facility in downtown Whitehorse for FAS adults.
Mr. Cable: The minister is putting a much more lax complexion on the survey than she did when she announced it. When the minister went out on her restorative justice initiative, several of the communities raised the issue of FAS. Many felt that FAS and FAE victims, and I quote, "don't know right from wrong," and wanted to know how restorative justice would deal with them differently from the mainstream justice system. Surely determining the dimensions of this problem is one of the vital pieces of information that we need if the restorative justice initiative is going to work, if our crime prevention initiatives are going to work. Why doesn't the minister put more resources on the issue to shorten whatever timeline she has on getting this vital information?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: We have devoted tremendous amounts of resources to the issue of FAS. I've indicated that, very recently, there was an additional half-day training session provided to staff of the correctional facilities. We're looking at that needs assessment. We've put a lot of resources into the restorative justice work - correctional reform and better programs for offenders, including offenders with FAS, is part of that work.
Speaker: The time for Question Period has now elapsed. We will proceed with Orders of the Day.
Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.
Speaker: It has been moved by the government House leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.
Chair: I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. Not wanting to be a grinch, do members wish to recess?
Chair: Fifteen minutes.
Chair: I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. Committee is dealing with the supplementary estimates. We are on the Department of Tourism.
Bill No. 19 - Third Appropriation Act, 1999-2000 - continued
Department of Tourism - continued
Chair: Is there further general debate?
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, does the minister have any of the information I requested on Tuesday or last evening, available for the House today?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, the department is working on the numbers and the percentage breakdowns in the supplementary budget that the member asked for, and we will be providing them when they are available. I hope it will be available soon.
Ms. Duncan: I look forward to receiving that information.
When we left off last evening, we were discussing the arts branch and some of the projects within that particular part of the minister's Department of Tourism. I'd like to ask the minister a few questions regarding the cultural industry strategy document that was made available earlier this year.
I'd like the minister to elaborate on this document and indicate a time frame for its finalization. This copy that I have is marked "draft". There are a number of action steps listed in this cultural industry document. What is the scheduled time frame for revisiting those? When will we look back at this document and say, "Yes, this has or has not been completed or accomplished"?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Chair, certainly this government has been working with more than due diligence to implement a cultural industries plan. We have been working with the Department of Education, pulling together cultural industries training trust fund, film incentive programs, with the Department of Economic Development, in part with their trade and investment funds - all those good kinds of works are happening at this point in time.
The plan, as created after a couple of years - we started it in 1997 - on consultation, and we're just bringing it to conclusion. I believe the last meeting was just today, just this morning, and we expect that the draft plan, as I said, is to be concluded today, and we are looking to pull it together and to formulate our thoughts and put it into a final response, and we'll expect that that could be finished by calendar end, or certainly by the end of January.
Ms. Duncan: One of the other questions I asked was with regard to the action steps. For example, one of the action steps and recommendations in the draft document is that there be capital funding provided to upgrade technology and expand facilities. This is to do with facilities of cultural, non-government organizations.
At what point in time is it the government's or department's intention to go back and look at this document and say, "Yes, we have accomplished that, and it's time to revisit and re-examine our strategy"?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, in partnership with the Department of Education cultural industries training trust fund, we've just signed that off, I believe, just this week, so we've already taken some of the initiatives that came forward from the draft document and the consultation and are starting to implement those types of issues.
The department will continue to do ongoing monitoring on this paper but built formally into the paper will be a three-year review also. So, we've started it, we've put in provisions for review and, of course, we'll be doing ongoing monitoring as we proceed through.
Ms. Duncan: That's what I was looking for, that three-year time commitment by the minister so, if you will, this has a time expiry date. In three years we'll go back and revisit this and look and see if it's still relevant to Yukon's cultural industries.
I just have a few follow-up questions from the debate over the last few days. The Yukon vacation guide has been the subject of a bit of discussion in this House in Question Period, and between the minister and I in general debate.
The 1999 vacation guide, according to the Yukon government contract listing, was a contract issued to Parallel Strategies for $393,289, specifically for the 1999 vacation guide. Departmental officials and the minister have indicated publicly in the media that the tourism vacation guide cost $378,000. That's a $25,000 difference. Can the minister account for it?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: I have just been informed that the contract did come in around $5,000 under the budget. Added to that, though, there were miscellaneous contracts that were supplied to Parallel so that they might be able to push forth, and that explains the other discrepancy.
Ms. Duncan: In other words, what the minister is saying is that this particular contract to Parallel included more than just the vacation guide. It's just the way it's listed in the government listing. And the minister is nodding his head.
Last night, we spoke briefly about the MacBride Museum in relationship to the Beringia Centre. The MacBride Museum Board of Directors some time ago advised me of their desire for expansion and some plans that they have on the books to expand that particular facility. Has the minister and the minister's department been made aware of these plans? At what point do they intend to review them, and will they be allocating funding to this MacBride project, or will they be assisting MacBride in finding other funding partners?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Absolutely, Mr. Chair. We've been working with the MacBride Museum Association on their plans. I've met with them on this particular issue two or three times, I believe, over the past year and a half, always looking at how we would build upon the past meeting and what is the direction. And I have gone back and talked to the department and said that I'd like them to focus on this side of issues with the museum board, and then the museum board would meet among themselves and take it forward. I've talked to the Government Leader about how we could possibly proceed to look toward incorporating some of their vision on heritage and the waterfront and the MacBride Museum expansion into our future funding plans. There is nothing solidified at this point in time, but there are ongoing conversations and talks with the board, with the idea of how to make it a can-do initiative with them.
As the member knows, we're working with the YHMA. We're working with the MacBride Museum Board on the transfer of Beringia to them. That is a very important part of their makeup as they see it in the attraction business and the museum business in downtown Whitehorse here. They're quite excited about that.
I asked them what their priorities are: "How would you like to prioritize these two initiatives that we have going?" There was overwhelming support from the board to be able to proceed with the management transfer of Beringia to the association. That was their first priority, yet they said at the same time they didn't want us to lose sight of the fact that they have ambitions that they'd like to move forward with their expansion.
So, yes, we have been working with them. We've chatted with them. We've discussed potential partnerships with them in terms of other funding sources from the federal government, et cetera, and of course we will always be at the table with them at the appropriate time.
Ms. Duncan: I appreciate that the minister hasn't given away any secrets on the spring budget, and he's aware of the plans of MacBride, and that, I'm sure, is appreciated. My concern is how far along we are, in terms of assisting MacBride with having this vision of an expanded facility becoming a reality.
What I hear the minister saying - and I'll provide him with an opportunity to correct this - is that those plans of an expanded facility have essentially been put on hold while the board deals with this issue of the transfer of Beringia. Is that correct?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: In part, that's correct. They've never asked anything to be put on hold or anything, and what they have done, though, is that I have asked them to prioritize which initiative they would like between the two initiatives. They have overwhelmingly said that, yes, they do want to be involved in the Beringia transfer. They feel that it's very good for the museum association and for attractions generally, that they still are very interested and desirous of moving ahead with their expansion in the MacBride Museum, located on the waterfront downtown. They'll continue to focus on that, but their number one priority - and I say it is their priority, not the government's priority, but it is government working in partnership with them to establish their priorities. They maintain that the Beringia transfer is definitely their number-one priority.
We will continue, as I have said, to work with them at the opportune times, as they establish them, to see how we can pull together in partnership and work toward their ultimate goal, and their other ultimate goal is, of course, the MacBride Museum expansion.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, I had an opportunity to go back through the debate, and the minister noted that some of the supplementary funding we're debating is revotes for a new summer shoot. A new summer shoot - I would assume that to be a film video production for the VRCs. And there was also replacement of VRC signs.
Can the minister just elaborate on those items, please?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, on the summer shoot initiatives, yes, we went out in the summer - and we're still looking to complete it - to get various pictures of original Yukon grizzly bears, and original Yukon scenes and those types of things. So we're out there; we have folks taking those camera shots - and all the professionals. That is the revote system.
And of course, on the visitor reception signage, that is an ongoing program. It just never got quite completed, but it is going to be carried over for next year. It's just a continuing program of signage.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, I'm going to assume that the minister's hiring of professional photographers for the shooting of new Yukon scenes, and original Yukon grizzly bears, and Yukon shots - I'm going to invite the minister to advise the House that that has been, of course, a local hire?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: But of course it's a local hire. We have many, many talented photographers here in the Yukon Territory. Probably one of the greatest jobs in the world is tromping around in the hinterlands in the backcountry with a camera and "click, click", taking pictures and seeing all these magical moments. I just wish that I had more than an Instamatic and could keep up and participate with them. But certainly they're all local photographers.
Ms. Duncan: One of the greatest jobs, in terms of being a local photographer, is when you sell those pictures after having tromped around in the bushes to get them.
Just one last reminder for the minister before I pass this debate over to others: in a previous debate, I made note that it would be very much appreciated if the department, as a matter of courtesy, would forward to us the new brochures as they're produced. And that way we can make them available in our offices as well, because we are meeting and greeting the folks, as the minister likes to refer to them, on a regular basis. The minister did commit to do that, but somewhere in the hustle and bustle of being the Tourism minister that has been forgotten, and I would just remind him of that commitment to us. I'd like to thank the minister and his official for the information in the last few days in debate; I appreciate receiving it and I look forward to receiving the detailed information I've requested by legislative return.
Mr. Phillips: The first question I have is probably more of a comment than a question. I do want to tell the minister that - as he knows, I'm not very supportive in general of his government's policies - I'm pleased to see the direction that the government is following in tourism. I heard the minister say here the other day that he didn't know which minister first went to meetings in Europe and got the kind of coverage that he knows we can get over there by doing that. I would remind the minister that I think I was the first minister who went over to Europe. And it was his colleagues at the time in the NDP who criticized that move. I argued vehemently that we should do that, and I told the minister shortly after he became the minister that I would certainly support him in doing that. I'm glad he has done it. I think it has paid off for us. I know what those kinds of things mean in Europe especially, and I know that some of his other colleagues, who are now traversing the world, see some benefit in that. At least that's the argument they are using now. That wasn't the argument they were using then, but it is the argument they're using now.
Mr. Chair, I have a few more questions with respect to marketing.
I'm pleased to see that there is more money in this budget with respect to the airlines. I lobbied strongly and so did the industry last spring when we talked about what we were doing in Europe, because I think, in the last budget, there was very little or no new money in Europe, and yet we were getting some new airlines.
I think I raised that with the minister in the House here, that if we were going to have new airlines, it wouldn't do us much good to divide the pie into smaller pieces. We had to put some money in it. And I'm glad to see the minister has seen the merit in that, and I'll look forward to getting the same information that he promised the Liberal Party with respect to the breakdown of the information.
So, if I could get everything that he promised the Liberal Party as well - just send it to both of us - I'd appreciate that.
One of the things that I heard when I went to the tourism summit, which I must commend the department and TIA for hosting, was, with respect to Europe, that all three of the wholesalers and the airlines that spoke on the European segment that I attended said that it's great we're coming, but it won't do us much good unless we raise our profile to fill the aircraft. And I'm pleased to see that the minister put money in this budget so there is money in this budget that will hopefully do that. I hope it's enough, because we have benefited greatly from the European visitors, both British visitors and those from Germany, in the past.
Another area I'd like to touch on for a few moments is with respect to the airlines arriving. The minister spoke a little bit about waste disposal for the airlines, and I know that the international flights that arrive here at the present time purchase their food and supplies elsewhere, and they haven't, as far as I know, purchased the meals in Whitehorse to go back to Germany. I know there are some companies and catering companies in town who do that. I don't know if the minister has any influence on them, but it may be an economic opportunity for some Yukon companies to bid on the opportunity or bid on supplying the food. I know they have strict regulations, but I'm sure we could meet those if we knew what they were, and do them in a cost-effective manner.
I have one area that I'd like to ask the minister about. I just heard the other day - and I'm getting some more information on it - that the British Columbia government has put out a paper on the future use of the Atlin area and the Atlin Lake area. I have been told that, in the document that's been released, there is a proposal to limit, or eliminate, motorized boats on Atlin Lake. The concern I've heard is from the people who own the houseboats there. Although it's in British Columbia, there are a lot of Yukoners who benefit from that particular venture. The people buy their groceries in Whitehorse. They buy their supplies here. They usually arrive in Whitehorse and maybe spend a night or two here when they come in. So we do see some spinoff from that. As well, I would be concerned - and I haven't seen the study, but I'm trying to get a copy of it - that it doesn't spill off into the Tagish waters. Atlin Lake drains into Tagish there at the Little Atlin River. It is in British Columbia. It might be a management area that B.C. is setting up. I'm not sure. My concern would be that there are some Yukoners who have established new businesses with houseboats on Tagish and Marsh lakes, and they would be taking their clients, or having their clients go down into that area. So, I'd just ask the minister to check into that and come back with any information he could with respect to that. I'd maybe ask him if he would be making representation to the British Columbia government with respect to use of that area, because we do jointly market, and we are tied closely together in that area. Would the minister do that?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Chair, I'll just start from the very beginning. I'd like to thank the member opposite for his kind words regarding the department.
Who was first into Europe? I guess that's always the question that will be going around, and I understood that it was Mr. David Porter who might have been the first minister who went to Europe on behalf of the territorial government. I guess it doesn't really much matter who was the first, because I think whoever did see that far into the front and to the vision of the European market, every other minister that followed up should be commended for bringing forth and caring and keeping that initiative going.
And of course I will certainly assure both the official opposition and the third party that I will share all information that I forward or the department forwards, and it will be shared among the two opposition parties.
I can certainly agree with the summit. I mean, the summit was just a heck of a good idea, and I remember how we came about the idea to get the summit and to come with the summit. And, of course, the members in the House know that I announced the tourism summit at the TIA convention, and it was working in conjunction with some local people who were wanting to be and were desirous of being tourism operators. And then it was also in conjunction with, I believe, operators from Canuso, who were here at the time, and we sort of sat down and we said, "Jeepers, you know, this is the way we should go, and this is how we could do it, and look at the success it turned out to be," and I'm just so very proud, and I certainly appreciate and will pass on the thank you to the department and to TIA on behalf of results here.
Yes, we take very seriously the issue of the airline resources, and we'll always continue to look toward those ends so that we might be able to maintain the flow or the equilibrium that we have created here in creating more of a worldwide attraction of the Yukon Territory.
Definitely, I will ask the department to check into the purchase of meals here. If there is ever an opportunity that we might be able to get more business for our entrepreneurs and our businesses here in the Yukon Territory, well, that's exactly the route that we will go.
So, I'll definitely have that checked out and see if there's a possibility.
On the idea of talking to British Columbia on the study, yes, I have been notified of the paper. I have seen the paper. I have passed the paper on now, and it was thanks to the work of the Member for Riverdale South - the sunny side, they say - who brought this to my attention and provided a copy. I have asked Renewable Resources, in conjunction with the Minister of Renewable Resources, to look at it, to critique it, and to see what possibly might be the next step.
Certainly, we have a defined protocol relationship with the Province of British Columbia. We do mention tourism in the paper. We want to successfully promote the whole Southern Lakes region and, of course, Atlin is definitely a part of that region. It just happens to be on the wrong side of the border to be included in the Yukon government's process, but what happens on either side of the border has implications on both sides of the border.
So we will, through our memorandum-of-understanding initiatives, be raising the issue with the appropriate ministries in British Columbia. At this point in time, we are critiquing it here to make sure that nothing comes out of it that will be to the detriment of our businesses in the Yukon Territory, our would-be entrepreneurs in the Yukon Territory, who would be working in the vicinity that we're talking about.
So of course I will continue to have ongoing dialogue with the Province of British Columbia, pertaining to this very important process that we're in.
Mr. Phillips: I was listening to the debate last night, and I think the member for the Liberal Party talked about some O&M funding for a staff person for the Quest and Rendezvous.
It's something that I have heard a lot about in the last few months and weeks, and I would add my voice as well to the need for such a person or persons. I think that the Yukon Quest and the Sourdough Rendezvous and the Thunder on Ice and the new Fulda event coming, and all these things happening - Frostbite - there has to be some coordination of these events. There needs to be some effort to sort of market and work with them together in the future.
I know the minister said he was going to work on something like that, and I'd just remind the minister that he has provided O&M funding in the past for the groups. In fact, he's providing it in this budget for the groups. He's providing $50,000 for the Dawson City Arts Society for a very similar kind of person that the Yukon Quest and Sourdough Rendezvous would like to hire.
So, I would encourage the minister to quickly come to some - I know he's got something up his sleeve and they were working with them, and I would encourage the minister to get on with it very quickly. Both of these events are fast approaching. There's a lot of work to be done, and people do want to see this happen very quickly.
The minister doesn't have to elaborate much on it. I just want to throw my voice into the fray and show support for such an initiative. I think it would build an overall better winter product for everybody and everyone would benefit from that, and it would be a positive thing for the government to do. I hope they will move on that.
Mr. Chair, last year the government ran a television ad campaign - I believe on Global television in Ontario. It was the Roberta Flack music, and we saw it at the Skins Game quite a bit. The minister has sung it a few times, and he could save us a lot of agony today if he would not sing it again.
My question to the minister: did we do a conversion study with that ad campaign, because there's no point doing an ad campaign without converting it and knowing whether we saw results from the campaign. I wonder, if the minister did a conversion study, if he could provide that document for us.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Well, certainly, I can testify right here in the House that the minister has nothing up his sleeve - absolutely nothing, except elbows - but, certainly, what we have here in this head and in the department is very much of a vision to be able to continue with the promotion of winter product and to continue making our Yukon - our beautiful Yukon - a first-class, worldwide destination and four-season playground. So, I take what the member says on the Yukon Quest and on the Sourdough Rendezvous and looking toward promoting them and enhancing them and working with them, and certainly we'll continue to do those types of initiatives.
On the commercial that was spoken about, the Roberta Flack song that - actually it's not a Roberta Flack song, it's a Gordon Lightfoot song, if I remember correctly. It's a good Canadian product. I was corrected on the floor of this House last year, too, on that. So it's a good Canadian product. It's still ongoing. We're shooting it again. I will see if there are any conversion figures on it at this point in time from last year's success, and I will provide the up-to-date figures to the members opposite.
Mr. Phillips: Is the minister saying he is going to see if there are conversion figures? Because I would have thought that there would be. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense to run a program promoting your area and not have any idea whatsoever whether you're getting any results from it. So, I would have thought that every advertising program that we had run, we'd have some way to convert and know how many people were actually seeing it, impacted by it, and actually coming to the territory.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: No, Mr. Chair, we do have some conversion figures. We are going to continue with it. I will provide the conversion figures, the converted figures, to the member opposite. We're still working on it to continue with the awareness issues of it in the southern Ontario market, but I will provide the figures.
Mr. Phillips: A couple of other things, too, Mr. Chair. I would like, in the same document that the minister gives me with the conversion figures, to provide the total cost of putting it together and the promotion of it and how much it has cost us to run it. Maybe the minister, at the same time, could also provide information on whether we're developing any new ones.
As you know, people get tired of commercials if they run continuously and they're the same commercial. They don't pay attention to them any more, and you can only run them for a short period of time and then you have to move on to something different to catch people's attention. If the minister could provide that as well, I'd appreciate that.
A visitor exit survey was done this summer. Could the minister just give us some idea of when we expect to see preliminary results and when we expect to see the final results of the visitor exit survey?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly, Mr. Chair, I will provide the initiatives on the first-time film commercial, as desired by the member from the third party, and I'll certainly provide right now, here on the floor of the House, that we will have the preliminary results of the visitor exit survey here. They'll be done by late December and, when they're done, I'll assure both members of the House that I'll provide them forthwith.
Mr. Phillips: Also, there was a press release that came out of the government here a couple of weeks ago or so that talked about a five-percent increase, or something, in visitors to the territory. In the past, we used to get almost monthly stats or at least stats for about every 60 days of border crossings. I know they said they're not doing that any more, but it doesn't help us much to get an overall figure. When we just hear that there's a 5.8-percent increase, it doesn't tell us what it involves, where they're crossing over, which areas saw what as far as volume. It seems to me that, if we could get an overall figure of border crossings, then Canadian Customs would be able to provide us with the same information of the breakdown.
So, all I'm asking the minister is, when are we going to get the breakdown of the overall figures, broken down for Customs stations throughout the territory?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, we will be providing a little bit more detail for the member opposite because, as the member opposite knows, these statistics do not include air, rail or marine. Right now, though, we're working with the Tourism Industry Association; we're working with the Bureau of Statistics and industry services branch of the territorial government - of our department, actually - and we'll be looking to establish a committee that will review the analytical method that is currently used, and we're looking for them to provide recommendations for improvement, so that we might, just as the member said, have more of a flow as it comes about. We're looking to do that at this point in time.
So we're looking right now to prepare more detail, and I think that it should be some time this month that we would have it, and I would be able to provide, very likely, those types of statistics and figures as I provide the visitor exit survey. I'd expect that I could supply both in the same time frame.
Mr. Phillips: I appreciate that.
Mr. Chair, I hope that this committee that's looking at ways to compile statistics doesn't take very long to come to some conclusion. We're a very small territory; we have half a dozen or so entrance and exit points, from airports to border crossings to highway crossings. So it seems to me that any new system we have could be put in place before this summer. I would hope that that is what the minister's shooting for too, so that we get a firm database.
I see the minister nodding his head in the affirmative, and I'm pleased to see that will happen that way.
Mr. Chair, I want to move on to another area the minister talked about a little earlier, and that's the CTC membership. I know we lost a position with Vicki Hancock, when she became ill and had to leave the position, was transferred out of Tourism. I understand the B.C. deputy minister now has taken that position.
My concern again is a concern that I've expressed all along with CTC, and that is that most other jurisdictions, except the Yukon - we're the only ones that aren't at the executive level. It's just a concern that I just want to reiterate. I know the industry feels concerned about it. I know we have some people on some very key committees, and they're excellent people, but I just think it was valuable for us to have our deputy minister at that upper level, where they dialogue on a continual basis with the people in the upper level of CTC. I would urge the minister to continue his lobby efforts to make sure that we somehow get back into the tent, so to speak, and I would hope that the minister would do that.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Chair, I have instructed the department to write a letter to the CTC, in fact, to reiterate that concern, and also to pass on, of course, congratulations to the new representative. We're going to do that and still take the high road but let them know that we do have a major concern because, certainly, yes, the Yukon has shown, in essence with all of Canada, a great return from a lot of different markets that different jurisdictions in Canada have not enjoyed that.
So, certainly, we'd like to keep the focus coming. I have asked the department to express that in a letter for my signature.
Mr. Phillips: I hope the minister doesn't let that bone go, because I think it's a real concern that we have got to keep at.
Mr. Chair, another issue that has come up: I have heard some people talking about the possibility of the Government of the Yukon setting up Yukon artists stores in airports other than Whitehorse. Has there been any discussion about setting up shops in airports and other areas of the country with respect to selling Yukon products?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: No, Mr. Chair, there has been no instruction from me to proceed with that, but I do know that the agency, through the department, is looking for new ways to spread Yukon marketing potential, but I have not instructed anybody to go with that initiative so far. As a matter of courtesy as I proceed through this process, I will keep both opposition parties informed.
Mr. Phillips: I would be concerned, Mr. Chair, if we were moving in that direction, and I say that only because I would rather have visitors come here and buy a Yukon product, than buy a Yukon product in the Vancouver or Edmonton or L.A. airport, and I think the benefits accrued to Yukoners would be far greater.
So I know that there are some shops in some of these places where I've seen a lot of Eskimo carvings and that kind of thing, and I think that some of the stores over here, they have some of them in the West Edmonton Mall and some of these other places, and it gives you exposure.
But on the other hand, those are usually, I understand, either native corporations that do it or private business that does it.
So, as I said, my preference would be that, if someone wants to buy a Yukon First Nations slipper or pair of mukluks, that they arrive at the Whitehorse airport and stay in a Yukon hotel, and paddle a Yukon river, and go to the Yukon goldfields and then, before they go back home, they spend a couple of hundred bucks, and buy a nice pair of mukluks. And I think we'd see a lot better return for our money in that.
It's just a concern that I have. I heard rumours that we were looking at something like that, and so it's a concern that I want to share with the minister, and that we would want to know all the details of how it was going to be done, and what the purposes of it would be, before we could give support to that initiative.
Mr. Chair, another area that I'd like the minister just to touch on briefly is Canyon City. I know we're getting closer to a settlement with the Kwanlin Dun, and I know that's one of the reasons why Canyon City was put on hold, but we're talking about the railway eventually moving out to that area. I know, when I was the minister, we had a lot of plans put together, and I know the new ministers probably had a look at some of that. It incorporated a lot of First Nation history and other history of Canyon City, and I just wonder if we're any closer to moving ahead with that project. As we know, the more attractions we build in the Yukon that are authentic, realistic, and that kind of thing, they would help keep people here and make us more of a destination.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly, Mr. Chair, as to the previous comment from the member before on Canyon City, I can say that I wholeheartedly agree - wholeheartedly agree - I'd rather have people coming to the Yukon and doing everything - what the member opposite had stated - and simply more than spending a couple of hundred bucks on a pair of mukluks. I mean, jeepers creepers, we have got to spend a lot more on that. That's what we want. And so I will keep both opposition parties informed if and when we go on that route. And I don't expect that we will be.
Certainly Parallel, though, with their ideas - they're always coming forth with ideas, and not all ideas are always accepted, because we never want to get into competition with Yukon entrepreneurs and never will get into competition in the tourism business.
On Canyon City, though, Canyon City is a great project. It has proven itself over the years. I know that as Kwanlin Dun proceeds closer to a land claims settlement - I do believe that they are at the table talking on these initiatives as they go through - this government will always be supportive of Canyon City. We know that it's a good thing. It's right here, local, in Whitehorse where there are a lot of benefits and employment opportunities for a lot of our youth. It's a good cultural attraction, close to the city, and a lot of our elderly visitors take a lot of advantage of it. So, as we proceed through the land claim process, I understand that it's going to be discussed as a heritage site possibility, and, of course, it will probably be treated in conjunction with and the same as Fort Selkirk, Rampart House and other initiatives like that.
Mr. Phillips: I think it's a natural fit for the Kwanlin Dun to showcase their history there, along with some of the gold rush history, and combine both and be of benefit to everyone, especially in the Whitehorse area and generally for the whole Yukon. If people are here to learn about our history and our culture, it would be a good idea to put something there.
Mr. Chair, the minister is moving into some other areas now in Asia and, of course, with more airlines in Europe and those kinds of things. I just wonder if the minister could provide us with a breakdown of the staffing in the Department of Tourism, specifically in marketing. Are all the positions full at the present time? If they aren't, when do we expect to fill them? Are we also talking about bringing on any new people in the near future for positions that aren't already listed? Are we looking at hiring new individuals for certain expertise and bringing them on for a period of time to work on specific projects? I'm just trying to get an idea. I know I've expressed this before to the minister, that the current staff does an outstanding job, but there ARE only so many hours in the day and so much energy that they can pull out. I've always been concerned about taking on new initiatives and not having new staff to at least do it, and just spreading these people, who are already working as hard as they can, a little thinner. Maybe the minister can just give us an idea of what's happening with the staffing.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Well, certainly, Mr. Chair, we've got, in this supplementary budget, a $50,000 endeavour for the Asian activities. Again, I'm just very impressed with the work that's being done in the marketing department - well, in Tourism in general, actually. Certainly, within the marketing department, we have some really good, fresh, new energy. What's happening over there, since our new director has been in place, is that we're doing some recruiting. We're losing some people, as the member probably knows, a secondment is coming to an end now and one of the people who was seconded a couple of years ago is leaving, and we're going to miss the person, indeed. Under the tutelage of our new marketing director, the person is reorganizing, working within the department, working with the Tourism Industry Association to see how best we could apply our energies and to what focus.
We do have our existing marketing officers here that do have some Asian experience. One of the marketing officers at this point in time is going to be working with the Asian market. Not to be taken away, because, as I've said, we have new resources in this supplementary budget and, of course, we're looking to, as we go through into the Asian market, putting new resources there - not to be taking resources from other existing markets, our traditional markets. It's very important that we're all very clear on that. We're not taking away any resources. We're adding resources to our traditional markets, and we're looking to expand new markets in Asia-Pacific and we're looking to apply new resources to those initiatives.
Mr. Phillips: Mr. Chair, I have to tell the minister that I have been talking to a lot of people in the industry, and I have been receiving a lot of positive comments about the new director of marketing and his initiatives, and I hope that the worst is over, so to speak, for the tourism marketing department. I know they have been through a lot in the last two or three years and, despite that, have still performed well with respect to the results and the numbers, and that's a credit to the people who were there. I have always supported their efforts and the many, many hours many of them work without pay because they love working for the product and doing what they do.
So, my hat is off to those people and, like I said, I'm pleased to see that the new marketing director seems to be off on the right foot and has positive support from the community.
There was an advertised position for a millennium coordinator. It was a few weeks or months ago, and I just wonder, has that position closed? Have they short-listed? Where is it at, and when do we hope to fill the position? Or have we filled it already?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, the position has been filled for one week now.
Mr. Phillips: Mr. Chair, a couple more questions here with respect to the Asia-Pacific market. I think the Liberal member touched on this briefly, but can the minister tell us if anyone in the tourism marketing department or anyone in CTC recommended that we go to China to look for tourists, or was that just an initiative that was prompted by the minister and the government itself?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: No, Mr. Chair, nobody from the CTC prompted us to go to China for this initiative. Certainly, we had an invitation from the Chinese government to come over to see if we could explore a friendship protocol.
That is the way that business is done in the Asian market. You go over, you make these protocols. We did. We looked at the potential that was there. It was about two days into the meeting, as we started to get to know each other and talk to each other about what we have to offer and what we would like to see happen from there, that the idea of an incentive tour arose from them. And they treated us as kind of an incentive tour, I guess you'd say - a political incentive tour - in an interchange - politically and socially, you can sign this document that they would be reciprocal to that point.
I'm expecting here now from China - and I have the department working on it at this point in time with our special envoy of - and I hate to create too much excitement at this point in time, but we could have up to 400 visitors here in the early spring next year, who would be coming to the Yukon Territory, and we're looking, of course, to showcase the Yukon Territory to those folks.
So, we're looking at it as an incentive tour and will keep working toward those ends. Another opportunity that has been arising from that, in a tourism type of way, is English as a second language. And we know that we have the Great Northwestern Business School that has been in operation now. We're working and developing a curriculum within the Watson Lake area for English as a second language, and they are working right now through the federal government for business-type visas and student visas so that we might bring both adult students and traditional students, I guess I could say, or younger students to the country to learn English as a second language. And that is happening, of course, within the Chinese market, and also within the Taiwanese market, and, as I said, we're looking to maybe having the Chinese folk here next spring as an incentive tour.
Mr. Phillips: The 400 visitors that the minister says might come in the spring - are they business people, are they government people, are they actual tourists, or is it a government-type trip that's being put on and paid for by the Chinese government? What kind of tourism is this?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, it is certainly initiated by the Government of China, and the Government of China have their own traditional, peculiar ways of doing business that are unique to them and in their makeup. Of course, they will be treated as a political envoy. They will be treated as a tourism-type of envoy, certainly as an educational type of envoy. They will also be building upon the success of the Chinese millennium initiative. The Arctic millennium initiative was really the one, when we had the 50 vehicles and 100 people coming up here this year, that really opened up their eyes - and our eyes - to the potential that is there.
Mr. Phillips: Mr. Chair, just a caution to the minister: when I was at the tourism summit, I had a chance to speak to some of the people from Asian countries. One of the comments they made to the groups there was that, although they want to speak English in some of those countries like China and want it as a second language, many of them don't. If we're going to benefit from that kind of Asian tourism, then we had better get our act together real quick at Yukon College with respect to training Yukon kids or Yukon people in having some ability in understanding the language. Otherwise, we'll be doing what Banff and Jasper and some of these other areas do where virtually every employee in the store is of Chinese or Japanese descent because they speak the language.
That's a very difficult one to do, but it takes a long time for people to learn those kinds of languages, and my suggestion is, if we're moving to that market now, we should be moving on the education side as quickly as possible to at least prepare us somewhat for that and be ready for that.
Mr. Chair, the other question I have is in regard to something that we've done before. The minister has done this in his Community and Transportation budget with respect to airports. They purchased a special loader for loading and unloading the wide-bodied aircraft. That was an infrastructure purchase to allow us to accommodate those types of aircraft.
This one is more relating to the film-site requirements. I've been told that purchase of a grip kit or an electrical kit and the lights would greatly increase the number of commercials and possible movies of the week and that kind of thing we could do here. Every time we have one of these things happen up here, we have to, at great expense, import a piece of equipment from down south. I know it's something that a small company simply couldn't afford. It would be something that could go into the inventory of the government somehow, similar to what these aircraft loaders did, and it might be something that might facilitate our acquiring a few more of these commercials and that kind of thing in the future. I would suggest to the minister that it might be something that the department would explore in the arts department, in the film-site location area, to see whether or not it could, in fact, help us in the future.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly, we'll continue to work through Yukon College as a partnership in education, and I take what the member says is, "Keep up on the education side of things."
On the grip package, yes, I've asked the department to prepare some options for me and for Cabinet and Management Board, so that we might be able to look at how best we can keep up with the film industry and what we can do to enhance the Yukon even more as the true Hollywood of the north. I do believe that we're moving in that way. Again, as I come to a decision on this, and as I get the information provided, I will certainly be sharing that information with all partners.
Mr. Phillips: Maybe we could be called the Hollywoods of the north and attract more people to our pristine wilderness, if the minister knows what I mean.
The last area that I want to touch on is something is that I actually gave the department notice on. This morning I noticed that nothing had been done about it, and I just want to remind the department that I'm having trouble, from time to time, of slipping into a time warp when I'm driving down the Alaska Highway - and the highways of the territory - when I round the corner and all these beautiful banners hanging on the side of the road that say "98" on them. They're two years old, and some of them are tattered and twisted and bent - unless we're preparing for 2098 and the minister is thinking well into the future and we're getting ready for it. I know that one of the things we heard at the tourism summit from one of the main speakers was that, if you do anything else with your Web sites, with your advertising and your promotion, keep them current and don't get outdated. I know that probably what happened is, in 1998, we ran around and put these banners up all over the place. I think they looked great, but maybe we have to have more of a coordinated banner program where they go up in the year 2000 and they come down in the 2001, and new ones go up. We should know exactly where all of them are and we have someone who coordinates it with the municipalities and other jurisdictions - just so we're not left with a few tattered banners hanging on bent poles that say "1998" or "1999" on them, and that we keep them current. And I would highly recommend that we continue with the banner program, because it adds a little colour to the community and it certainly adds colour on the highways and along the edges of the roads of the territory and gives one the feeling of welcome, and a festive-type appearance. So I would recommend that to the minister. I would hope that, in the next week or two, we would see some of those banners removed.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: I have been assured that the department is working on it and is going to be bringing the banners down, certainly before Christmas. And I take what the member says on the banner program and the point of sale that they provide.
Mr. Phillips: I'll take the minister's word for it, but I'll even go one better than that. The ones that I see all the time are at the Carcross Corner, and I have got a ladder at home, and if they're up there this spring, maybe I'll give the minister a call one day when he's coming in from Teslin, and we can stop and between the two of us we can pull the banners down, and we can help out a bit.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Absolutely, and I'll be the one holding the ladder.
Mr. Phillips: I wouldn't want to go that far. The minister can be on the ladder, and he can trust me, believe me. I would take great care if I had the minister up the ladder.
Mr. Chair, I have no further questions in general debate.
Ms. Buckway: I just have a couple of areas I wanted to touch on. The minister had indicated in general debate last night that he would fix the weather link on the Tourism page, and that just twigged in my mind when my colleague mentioned something outdated. I just want to ask a couple of questions about that.
On the Travel Yukon site you find several options on the left side of the page. One of them is weather; if you click on that, you get a brief summary that I believe is locally inputted - that's what's on the site now. It gives you Whitehorse, Haines Junction, Teslin and Atlin, highs and lows for today and tonight, a very brief synopsis - mainly cloudy, scattered flurries, that sort of thing - and then there's a hot link, complete Environment Canada weather for Yukon - that's a hot link that is outdated, and I'm aware that Environment Canada has tried to get the webmaster for the Tourism pages to change that.
One problem with locally inputting even a small bit of information is that it gets done once a day on weekdays. It doesn't get done on weekends and holidays, or if something comes up and the employee is unable to do it.
I'll let your imagination come up with what would happen if someone were relying on that weather information, and a storm came up or something and it was outdated.
Environment Canada offered the department a free link to its Yukon forecast, but their response wasn't replied to.
It's a safety issue, Mr. Chair. If we're going to be providing weather information to people through this site, we should make sure it is accurate and up to date. The forecast information as given is pretty sketchy. There are a lot more areas in the Yukon than Whitehorse, Haines Junction, Teslin and Atlin. The current Environment Canada forecast mentions, for example, for the Old Crow and Dempster areas, high wind chills and local drifting snow. That's the sort of information the travelling public should have access to. I think it would be a fairly simple matter to address this problem and take advantage of a link to Environment Canada's current Yukon forecasts. I could supply the minister with a phone number and even with the URL, if he would like. The minister could probably even work out some way to get a current temperature run on the Travel Yukon pages.
In addition to all the other communities that we've been hearing weather reports on on local radio stations for years, there's now an automatic reporting station at Carmacks. There's one at Rock River on the Dempster Highway - it's working again. It was down for awhile but it's up again - where travelling conditions, as I mentioned, are often hazardous due to high winds.
We do have access to the information, so I would appreciate it if the minister would come up with a way so we can use the accurate information.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly, to hear that voice again talking about weather and reading out the weather takes me back to the good old days of radio. I can still remember waking up in the morning and hearing the voice of the member opposite and enjoying it. You just took me back a few years there to other memories.
But, of course, as I stated in the House yesterday, there will certainly be a change or a fix up to the linkage by January 15, if I recall, and certainly the point is taken as to improving what will be listened to.
Ms. Buckway: Interestingly enough, the other area I want to address will also bring back memories to the minister, and that is radio. I have a couple of questions about CKYN Yukon Gold visitor radio. That's the series of low-power FM stations that were on the air from May to September in Watson Lake, Carcross, Haines Junction, Beaver Creek, Dawson City and Whitehorse. What has happened to this project?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: I do believe that they were proven not to be, in all parts, the best bangs for the buck when it came to explaining, and so the department is looking to find different ways to spread the message of the Yukon Territory.
Ms. Buckway: I believe the system did not operate this summer, and possibly not the past summer either. The last visitor guide in which there was a mention of tourism radio was 1997. Can the minister advise when this project was last on the air?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: I do believe the member opposite is correct, that it was approximately three years ago that it was last on the air. I'd have to check specifically.
Ms. Buckway: Visitor radio, to give a little history, started May 20, 1988. George Tawse-Smith was director of marketing with the Tourism department, and David Porter was the Minister of Tourism at the time in an NDP government.
I just want to mention some of the things that Mr. Porter said in his ministerial statement announcing visitor radio station CKYN Yukon Gold. He said: "Commencement of the new service will mark a new era in the department's tourism promotional efforts in the Yukon. Never before has the travel industry applied the radio medium so broadly to deliver information and entertainment geared specifically toward increasing visitors' enjoyment and length of stay. From May 20 until September 25, local broadcasts will be heard daily from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. The programming consists of 12 one-hour cassettes, containing information on local attractions, points of historic and natural interest and interviews with Yukon personalities. Yukoners, past and present, tell their stories about northern life in 150 interviews collected for the radio programs. Archival tapes were utilized to present Yukon's past through the lives of Martha Louise Black and Robert Service. A great Yukoner, Johnny Johns, is featured in one of his last interviews before his recent death. The prepackaged programming will be augmented by local, live on-air announcements. Once every 28 minutes the VRC staff will be able to announce upcoming community events, road conditions and other information of interest to our travelers."
It was a progressive idea and it got a lot of positive response. In a time when this government is looking to increase tourism, to perhaps steer people to an area of the territory where they haven't been before, it seems to me to be a little short-sighted to cut off an avenue that did just that. I understand that the minister had done some surveys that said people weren't listening to visitor radio. I wonder if he could table the surveys with the results.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly I'll provide the information. It might take a bit here because it's historical, but I will certainly look for it. But I'd also like to point out that, as we do move along, that we do critique, and to listen to the New Democrat ministerial statement of years ago, especially my good friend, Mr. Porter - certainly it does bring back good memories and it certainly proves that the New Democrat government has had a vision for tourism for many years, which has certainly been carried on and implemented by previous ministers of many different stripes, so it's good work.
But, as we move along, it's always very important to critique what you do, how you do it and where you go, and that's definitely what this government has done through our marketing department, but certainly it would be my pleasure to share the results of the survey with the member.
Ms. Buckway: As far as I'm concerned, that service was a useful one. I look forward to seeing the results of the survey.
Could the minister advise what was the cost of visitor radio?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: All that pertinent information as to the results, the capital costs, operation and maintenance types of things, I will provide.
Ms. Buckway: There was a general services contract earlier this fall for the Tourism department to "remove all FM radio equipment". Is this the equipment for visitor radio CKYN? Could the minister advise?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, it is, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Buckway: Just one last question. Could the minister advise what happened to the material that was broadcast on CKYN? Did copies go the archives? There were some really excellent stories there, and I would hate to see them lost.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Oh, absolutely. I'd hate to see some of them lost also. I'm certain we do have them in our archival material and we haven't lost any of it.
Mr. Ostashek:I have just a couple of questions for the Minister of Tourism. One of them is on an application that was put in by the Klondike Visitors Association to update their regional video for the Dawson area, which has been refused. It appears that the premise for the refusal was that they'd already got funding and they weren't eligible to get it again. This has caused some concern for the Klondike Visitors Association. I have a copy of a letter dated today where they are appealing the decision, because the video was done as a regional marketing plan that included many other stakeholders. The department has said now that the Klondike Visitors Association should update the video out of their own marketing funding, and they feel that this is unfair. The video, apparently, is still displaying the 403 area code and advertising celebrations in Dawson in 1992.
They go on to say that they've distributed 3,000 copies of the existing video, and this seems to be a very attractive way of doing a regional marketing plan.
Their concern is that, had they known that they wouldn't be able to apply again, they could have had one of the other stakeholders apply to update the video. And they also believe that it's the Department of Tourism's responsibility to have regional marketing plans. It's the department's responsibility to market the Yukon.
So what I want to know from the minister is, what are his thoughts on this? They believe that it's unfair - making an investment of $15,000 and forming a consortium of stakeholders, and the marketing plan, has prejudiced their eligibility for funding.
They're also troubled by the fact that the marketing fund has funded a promotional video for a single event operated by a large for-profit corporation, and it has not supported the regional promotional video project, with a proven track record, which will benefit several organizations in rural Yukon communities.
So can I have the minister's thoughts on that, please?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Certainly you may.
With the KVA, of course, the KVA had made application to the tourism marketing fund, and of course, that's a New Democrat initiative, just for these types of purposes. As we both know, it is a citizen-led board, chaired by myself, of course and, in my absence, my backup, but certainly it's a citizen-led board.
It was rejected, as I've been led to understand. There is an avenue for recourse. I'm pleased that they are looking at it again, and re-thinking it, because what we've certainly done, as I said yesterday in general debate on the Tourism budget, is we've hired new resources within the industry services portion of the department that is mandated to simply work - not to simply, pardon me - but to work with people on those exact types of initiatives.
I will continue to work with the KVA and other tourism regional areas through regional tourism development. We did about a $200,000 video shoot here last year for new videos, et cetera. We have also gone beyond the call and offered the KVA some footage from that shoot.
So, yes, if the member would like to know my thoughts, my direction is that I will be more than willing to continue working with the KVA. We have hired new resource people within the department to help facilitate those types of things, and we always try to bring our can-do attitude toward tourism and the people whom we work with.
Mr. Ostashek: I'm not criticizing the minister's department for not doing any promotional work. I know they do a lot of promotional work.
I'm appealing to the minister to pay special attention to this appeal by KVA to update this regional video so that it can be used. It seems to be that it has been a very useful marketing tool, not only for the Klondike but for the whole Yukon. As the minister knows, the Klondike is what attracts a lot of people to come to the Yukon, and it's unfortunate that the video is out of date and has dates as far back as 1992 yet.
This letter, Mr. Chair, went to the director of industry services, who is in the minister's department. It was copied to the minister, and it was also copied to the Minister of Economic Development. So I'm appealing to the minister to do what he can to see if he can't accept the arguments that are made in the appeal, because they seem to me to be very valid arguments that are being made, and it seems that the funding for the updating of this video would be a great marketing help to all regions of the Yukon, not just the Klondike.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Point taken.
Mr. Ostashek: I have another question for the minister, and this is in relationship to the visitor reception centre over here. I want to know what the procedures are for Yukoners who go to the VRC, take guests over there or get tourism information.
And I'll tell you what has brought the issue to light, Mr. Chair. A constituent of mine who had visitors here last summer went to the VRC to view the video and to pick up information on touring the Yukon, and apparently parked in one of the visitor stalls. About a month later they got a fairly nasty letter from the department, telling them they weren't allowed to park there with a Yukon licence plate.
What is the policy on parking at the VRC in the visitor stalls with a Yukon licence plate?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: As the member opposite well knows, the Tourism critic for his party puts me on notice, I do believe, every year in the springtime that they're supposed to be for visitors there. We really, truly do try to encourage the parking spots for visitors. That's what we definitely try to encourage, but maybe we could think about it a little bit, because the example that the member uses - a family comes to town via an airline, and then they jump in with an existing family in the Yukon, and they go down for a little talk. Those kinds of hiccups happen from time to time. But, certainly, the stalls are for honest visitors to the visitor reception centre, because that's what it's there for. It's not to have a free park and run downtown and do a little shopping. There's a little bit of give and take in there, but certainly I'll bring that to the attention of the department to try and find ways to work within.
Mr. Ostashek: I appreciate that. My constituent was a little bit put out when they went to the visitor information centre to view the video and had legitimate visitors from out of the territory. I would draw to the minister's attention that there are a lot of tourists who come to the VRC who are Yukoners who don't necessarily live in Whitehorse and would have a Yukon licence plate on their vehicles, and I wouldn't want to see them getting letters from the department a month later telling them that they have to find someplace else to park.
I know it's a problem - and I understand what the minister is saying - because during the winter it seems it's used just like a general parking area, and we want to have it open for legitimate visitors, but I would urge the minister to have his department look at how they can come up with a policy that wouldn't be quite as severe as writing letters, basically telling people with Yukon licence plates that they ought not to be parking there.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: As I've said earlier, we're looking at other systems and other ways, and other means to accommodate the problem.
Heritage in the amount of $58,000 agreed to
Marketing in the amount of $392,000 agreed to
Arts in the amount of $70,000 agreed to
Chair: Any questions on the recoveries?
Ms. Duncan: I don't recall the minister giving any detail when he introduced the budget on those recovery items. Could he just refresh the House's memory?
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, there is an $8,000 recovery from the Canadian Heritage Information Network for the museum intern program. We had a $20,000 increase in recoveries from the Yukon Lottery Commission to fund additional payments to advanced artists.
Operation and Maintenance Expenditures for the Department of Tourism in the amount of $520,000 agreed to
On Corporate Services
On Marketing Initiatives
On Tourism Marketing Fund
Ms. Duncan: I would appreciate the minister just giving a little bit of information on these lines.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Yes, Mr. Chair - $222,000 is revoted for tourism marketing fund projects that were approved in the 1998-99 fiscal year but were not expended, and there's $250,000 of additional funding for the tourism marketing fund to meet anticipated applicant demands.
Tourism Marketing Fund in the amount of $472,000 agreed to
On Historic Resources
On Yukon Beringia Interpretive Centre
Hon. Mr. Keenan: There's $27,000 revoted to produce a heritage media kit, signage and marketing materials, with $144,000 revoted to complete Alaska Highway turn lanes to the centre at Beringia.
Marketing in the amount of $27,000 agreed to
On Heritage Attractions Site Support
Heritage Attractions Site Support in the amount of $144,000 agreed to
On Museums
On Artifact Inventory and Cataloguing
Artifact Inventory and Cataloguing in the amount of $22,000 agreed to
On Conservation and Security
Conservation and Security in the amount of $40,000 agreed to
On Historic Sites
On Historic Sites Maintenance
Historic Sites Maintenance in the amount of $32,000 agreed to
On Historic Sites Inventory
Historic Sites Inventory in the amount of $27,000 agreed to
On Ft. Selkirk
Ft. Selkirk in the amount of $30,000 agreed to
On Historic Sites Planning
Historic Sites Planning in the amount of $10,000 agreed to
On Interpretation and Signage
Interpretation and Signage in the amount of $18,000 agreed to
On Industry Services
On Industry and Regional Services
On Industry Research and Strategic Planning
Industry Research and Strategic Planning in the amount of $217,000 agreed to
On Product and Resource Assessment
Product and Resource Assessment in the amount of $114,000 agreed to
On Visitor Reception Centres
On VRC Capital Maintenance
VRC Capital Maintenance in the amount of $15,000 agreed to
On Travel Equipment, Displays and Productions
On Purchase and Maintenance of Displays
Purchase and Maintenance of Displays in the amount of $50,000 agreed to
On Millennium Celebrations
On Millennium Fund
Millennium Fund in the amount of $300,000 agreed to
Capital Expenditures for the Department of Tourism in the amount of $1,518,000 agreed to
Department of Tourism agreed to
Chair: We will now go to the bill.
On Schedule A
Schedule A agreed to
On Schedule B
Schedule B agreed to
On Clause 1
Clause 1 agreed to
On Clause 2
Clause 2 agreed to
On Clause 3
Clause 3 agreed to
On Title
Title agreed to
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chair, I move that Bill No. 19, Third Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, be moved out of Committee without amendment.
Chair: Do members wish to recess?
Chair: Ten minutes.
Chair: I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. We will be discussing Bill No. 92, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Public Service Act and the Cabinet and Caucus Employees Act.
Bill No. 92 - An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Public Service Act and the Cabinet and Caucus Employees Act
Chair: Is there general debate?
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, the three party leaders have spoken on behalf of their caucuses at great length and met in committee on this bill. We have also given second reading speeches on it. I would therefore suggest that unanimous consent be given to deem the clauses to have been read and to have carried.
Chair: Is there unanimous consent?
All Hon. Members: Agreed.
Chair: Unanimous consent has been granted and the clauses of Bill No. 92 are deemed to have been read and to have carried.
Clause 1 to 7 agreed to
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chair, I move that you report Bill No. 92 out of Committee without amendment.
Chair: We will now go to Bill No. 82. This is the Elections Act.
Bill No. 82 - Elections Act - continued
Chair: Committee will go to clause 300.
On Clause 300 - previously stood over
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Clause 300 is regarding tie votes, and it was stood over from the previous discussion. I've carefully considered the arguments made by members opposite. The suggestion was that we institute a mandatory by-election in the event of a tie. We believe that still leaves too many variables.
I might comment, Mr. Chair, that there is a very remote chance that there will be another tie. Last year's tie was the first since the territory started running its own elections. It is difficult to anticipate all contingencies. The government has determined that rather than automatically subject a riding to elections within a very short time frame, that we should determine the tie vote with the casting of lots, and then allow any controvert process to take its course.
Mr. Phillips: Well, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to hear that the government doesn't want to change in this area. We disagree completely with the philosophy of the government. I don't understand for the life of me why they've taken the position they have. The minister's argument is extremely weak. The minister said, "It only happened once."
Well, we've had several elections where there have been two- or three-vote margins. Almost every election, we've had a two- or three-vote margin. In our small numbers in the territory, you know, margins of three and four and five are not unheard of. In fact, they're quite common. You could have not just a riding but a whole government hinging on the drawing of lots.
Somebody said to me, "Why don't they just get hold of the Lion's Club and we could play blackjack or we could use a roulette wheel and spin the roulette wheel, or do something bizarre like that?" Our sense, Mr. Chair, is that it is very undemocratic to do it that way, and that the people decide who their members are, and that the best way to break a tie in the case of a tie is to hold a by-election.
With that in mind, Mr. Chair, I want to propose an amendment to Bill No. 82.
Amendment proposed
Mr. Phillips:Mr. Chair, I move
THAT Bill No. 82, entitled Elections Act, be amended by deleting clause 300 and substituting it for the following:
"Tie results in a new election
300.(1) Notwithstanding subsection 299(2), where a recount made pursuant to section 292 results in an equal number of ballots having been cast for two or more candidates who also have the greatest number of ballots cast for them in the election, the returning officer shall immediately complete the return to the writ of election indicating that two candidates had the same number of ballots cast for them.
(2) When a return to the writ is received pursuant to subsection (1), a writ of election for a new election in that electoral district shall be issued not sooner than 14 days and not later than 90 days after the date of the return to the writ.
(3) An election called pursuant to this section shall be administered in accordance with any provisions respecting the conduct of by-elections."
Chair: It has been moved by the Member for Riverdale North
Chair: Is there any debate?
Mr. Phillips: We proposed this amendment, which, in fact, will allow a by-election shortly thereafter a general election in the case of a tie. We feel it's more democratic and gives the electorate - the people who actually put us in this Legislature - the opportunity to choose the individual they wish, rather than a drawing of straws or cutting of cards or throwing of dice, or whichever kind of way you want to do it. The approach that the government has taken here, I believe, is one that is not fair to the electorate, and certainly doesn't give them a say in the matter.
I know there were some questions expressed to us about some of the issues surrounding a by-election enumeration and that kind of thing, and, I understand, from discussing this with the Clerk, that all of the concerns that were raised with respect to a by-election are taken care of in the existing act as it is now.
So I urge all members to support the amendment that's before us.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Chair, I am not in support of the amendment that the member opposite brings forward. The member opposite, in his discussion, indicated that, here in the Yukon, we often have margins of three or four or five, and so it wasn't accurate to suggest that there might not be another tie vote in the near future.
Notwithstanding that there have been narrow margins in many electoral victories in the Yukon, controverts have not often been successful, and there is a controvert process in this bill. We have reviewed the issue of tie votes, and we have "what-if'd" and "what-if'd" the issue of tie votes to death. We believe that the status quo, which is what is in the bill before us, is the best solution.
The dynamics of holding an automatic by-election immediately after a general election, when the results are known in the other 16 ridings, might in fact have a significant effect on the democratic process.
We won't be supporting the amendment, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, the Liberal caucus believes that tie votes should be broken by holding a new by-election, that a coin toss or drawing of lots is simply unacceptable. We support this proposed amendment to the bill.
The arguments that have been put forward by the Minister of Justice for not supporting it - no disrespect to the member - do not hold water. The business of a by-election possibly deciding the fortunes of the government - well, that's a by-election, that's what happens.
At least, it's an election, and it's a duly elected democratic process. While it may happen that there is an extremely unfortunate circumstance of a number of elections within a short period of time in a small Yukon community, at least people have a vote and a democratic process, and that is far more acceptable to the majority of Yukoners than simply a draw out of a teacup to see who should hold the seat and who should represent them in a Legislature.
We believe that the best method for deciding a tie vote - and let's be realistic: the likelihood of a tie vote is not as strong as some discussions in this House would have one believe - is that tie votes should be broken by holding a new by-election. That is the fair and democratic process for determining who should represent Yukoners in this Legislature.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Chair, in the new Elections Act that we have before us, there is a procedure for a controvert, or an overturning of the decision in an election. In the one example in the Yukon where we had a tie vote, a controvert was successful. We believe that it is fair to break the tie vote with a casting of lots and, if there is a successful controvert, then there would be another election.
Mr. Ostashek: I'm very disappointed in a government that doesn't believe in democracy. We have 17 seats in the Yukon. Every election, we have two or three ridings that are very close. In the last election, we had one that was tied, one that was a three-vote difference, one that I believe was a seven-vote difference. It's conceivable that, in any election, we could have a tie vote.
The minister says, "Well, we have the controvert clause. It can be controverted." Certainly, it can. But let's just play out what could happen in the Yukon. Suppose that the controvert was unsuccessful. We had a tie vote. We could also have that the drawing of that lot in that one riding could not only decide who represents that riding in this Legislature, it could very well represent who the government is.
Now, if that is what this NDP believes is democracy, I disagree strongly, and I'm sure many, many Yukoners do. It's not an onerous task. The minister is arguing against herself, because she says that it doesn't happen very often. Well, if it doesn't happen very often, why couldn't we have a by-election? I would not want to be part of a Legislature that was decided, or which decided who the government was, by the drawing of a lot, and that could very easily happen in the Yukon.
That would be very unfair to the voters in the Yukon. When the task of holding a by-election is not that onerous, I don't know why this government is resisting it.
I support the amendment, Mr. Chair.
Some Hon. Member: Question.
Some Hon. Member: Division.
Chair: Division has been called.
Chair: Order please.
Mr. Fentie: Is it agreeable, Mr. Chair, that we proceed with the count, instead of the five-minute wait?
Chair: Agreed. The question before the Committee is the amendment moved by Mr. Phillips. Would those in favour, please rise.
Members rise
Chair: Would those opposed, please rise.
Chair: The nays have it, and I declare the amendment defeated.
Amendment to clause 300 negatived
Chair: Is there any further debate on this clause?
Clause 300 agreed to
On Clause 370
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: It is my intention to move amendments to Parts 6 and 7 of this bill. I want to note that consultation has taken place, leading to the re-drafting of these two parts. Changes have been proposed to Part 6 as a result of a number of meetings, including representatives of each of the political parties and the elections office.
Discussions about Part 7 took place between myself and members from each of the two opposition caucuses.
This process had led to an extensive redrafting of Parts 6 and 7. During the consultation that has taken place, full redrafts of these two parts have been provided to the participants and formed the basis for discussions. It therefore would seem advisable to proceed by way of an amendment, which would delete the current parts 6 and 7, and which would offer full replacements for each of them. This would assist members by showing the full intended text of the legislation. Members would not then be faced with the task of sifting through and analyzing a very large number of individual amendments. I believe this approach reduces possible confusion and the potential for drafting mistakes.
It is, however, required by our practices that we deal with bills on a clause-by-clause basis and that individual amendments be made on specific clauses. It therefore is necessary to request the unanimous consent of Committee to move this amendment. I would mention, Mr. Chair, that the proposed amendment is very lengthy.
The normal practice is for the mover to read the full text of the motion and for the Chair to repeat it. In this case, all members have already been provided with a copy of the amendment I propose to move. Therefore, if the Committee is to grant unanimous consent for the amendment to be moved, I would also request unanimous consent for the amendment to be taken as read and for Hansard to print the text of the amendment as though it had been read.
Chair: Unanimous consent has been granted for the amendment to be moved and to be taken as read.
It is the Chair's understanding that it is the wish of the Committee to deviate from normal practice and have what could be called a general debate on Part 6, and then go through it clause by clause, and then do the same for Part 7.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: I move
THAT Bill No. 82, entitled Elections Act, be amended by deleting clauses 370 to 415, found on pages 121 to 138, and substituting for them the following clauses, which I will not read into the record as a result of the unanimous consent, and further, renumbering clauses 416 to 425 accordingly.
Text of amendment
That Bill Number 82, entitled Elections Act be amended by deleting clauses 370 to 415 found on pages 121 to 138 and
(1) substituting for them the following clauses:
FINANCIAL PROVISIONS FOR CANDIDATES AND REGISTERED POLITICAL PARTIES
370. In this Part,
"contribution" means the total of all contributions made by the same contributor during a calendar year or an electoral period to a candidate or a registered political party for Yukon political purposes and includes cash, negotiable instruments, goods, services, and discounts off the usual price of goods and services, but does not include volunteer labour;
"contribution in kind" means a contribution in a form other than cash or negotiable instruments;
"receipt" means a receipt issued under this Part;
"unincorporated group" means any contributor, other than an individual, that is not incorporated or registered under Yukon legislation.
Valuation of contributions in kind
371. For the purposes of this Part, contributions in kind shall be valued at their fair market value as of the time when they are made.
Anonymous contributions
372.(1) A candidate or registered political party shall not accept any anonymous contribution of more than $50.
(2) Where an anonymous contribution of more than $50 in cash or negotiable instruments is received by a candidate or registered political party, it shall immediately be remitted to the chief electoral officer and paid into the Yukon Consolidated Revenue Fund.
(3) Where an anonymous contribution in kind valued at more than $50 is received by a candidate or registered political party, it shall be immediately delivered to the chief electoral officer who shall
(a) donate it to a non-profit group, or
(b) dispose of it in any other manner the chief electoral officer considers appropriate, and pay the proceeds of the disposition, if any, into the Yukon Consolidated Revenue Fund.
Contributions by trade unions, political parties and other unincorporated groups
373.(1) A candidate or registered political party shall not accept a contribution of more than $50 from an unincorporated group unless it is accompanied by a statement disclosing
(a) in the case of a contribution by a trade union or political party, the name and address of the trade union or political party, or
(b) in the case of a contribution by an unincorporated group other than a trade union or political party, the name and address of an individual who is a principal of the unincorporated group, and
the name and address of and the amount contributed by each contributor of more than $250 to the total contribution, or indicating that there are no contributors of more than $250 if that is the case.
(2) Where a contributor of more than $50 to the total contribution under subsection (1) is an unincorporated group, it shall provide a separate statement satisfying the requirements of subsection (1).
(3) Contributions which result from a collection by a trade union or political party from its members are considered to be contributions from the trade union or political party and shall be identified as such for the purposes of this section .
(4) A contribution of more than $50 from an unincorporated group shall be deemed to be an anonymous contribution to which section 372 applies if it is not accompanied by the statements required by this section.
CONTRIBUTIONS TO REGISTERED POLITICAL PARTIES
Receipts must be issued
374.(1) A receipt shall be issued for every contribution in cash or negotiable instruments of more than $50 received by a registered political party.
(2) A receipt may be issued for a contribution of $50 or less to a registered political party.
(3) A receipt shall not be issued for any part of a contribution in respect of which the contributor receives in return, or ought reasonably to expect to receive in return, equivalent value in cash, negotiable instruments, goods, services or otherwise from or on behalf of the registered political party.
Receipt forms to be provided by chief electoral officer
375.(1) The chief electoral officer shall, on the request of an official of a registered political party, provide receipt forms for issuance to contributors.
(2) No receipt form shall be issued by or on behalf of a registered political party in purported compliance with this Part other than one originally obtained from the chief electoral officer under subsection (1).
Who may issue receipts
376.(1) Receipts for contributions to a registered political party shall be issued by officials of the party authorized for that purpose by the leader of the party.
(2) The authorization of a person to issue receipts under subsection (1) and the revocation of such an authorization are not effective until notice in writing is received by the chief electoral officer.
How receipts are to be completed
377. Every receipt issued by an official of a registered political party shall show
(a) the full name of the registered political party,
(b) the name of the official,
(c) the date on which the receipt was issued,
(d) the date on which the contribution was received,
(e) where the contributor is an individual, the name and address of the individual, including the first name or initials,
(f) where the contributor is an unincorporated group, the name and address of the unincorporated group,
(g) where the contributor is neither an individual nor an unincorporated group, the name and address of the contributor,
(h) the amount of the contribution, and
(i) the signature of the official.
378.(1) A receipt shall be issued for every contribution in cash or negotiable instruments of more than $50 received by a candidate.
(2) A receipt may be issued for a contribution of $50 or less received by a candidate.
(3) A receipt shall not be issued with respect to any part of a contribution in respect of which the contributor receives in return, or ought reasonably to expect to receive in return, equivalent value in cash, negotiable instruments, goods, services or otherwise from or on behalf of the candidate.
379.(1) The chief electoral officer shall, on the request of the official agent of a candidate, provide receipt forms to be issued to contributors.
(2) No receipt form shall be issued by or on behalf of a candidate in purported compliance with this Part other than one originally obtained from the chief electoral officer under subsection (1).
380.(1) Receipts for contributions to a candidate shall be issued by the candidate's official agent.
(2) Receipts may be issued by the official agent of a candidate up to 30 days after the date of the return to the writ.
(3) Subject to subsection (2), the official agent of a candidate may issue receipts for contributions received before the issue of the writ.
381. Every receipt issued by the official agent of a candidate shall show
(a) the name of the candidate,
(b) the name and address of the official agent,
(i) the signature of the official agent.
ANNUAL REVENUE RETURN
382. A registered political party shall, on or before the last day of March in each year, file an annual revenue return with the chief electoral officer.
Contents of return
383.(1) An annual revenue return shall set out the following information for the preceding calendar year with respect only to contributions received in the form of cash or negotiable instruments:
(a) the total amount of all contributions;
(b) the number and total amount of all contributions of more than $250, and the name and address of and amount contributed by each contributor of more than $250;
(c) the number and total amount of all contributions of more than $50 but not more than $250;
(d) the number and total amount of all contributions of $50 or less for which receipts have been issued;
(e) the total amount of all contributions of $50 or less for which receipts have not been issued.
(2) Where a contribution of more than $50 in the form of cash or negotiable instruments during the year is made by an unincorporated group, the annual revenue return shall include
(a) the names and addresses required by subsection 373(1), and
(b) the names, addresses and statements required by subsection 373(2).
(3) An annual revenue return filed by a registered political party shall identify any revenues in the form of cash or negotiable instruments that are also included in an election revenue return.
Copies of receipts
384. A registered political party shall file with its annual revenue return the duplicate copies of all receipts issued during the year, including the receipts filed with an election revenue return.
ELECTION REVENUE RETURN
385.(1) Every registered political party and every candidate shall, within 60 days after the return to the writ, file with the chief electoral officer an election revenue return setting out the information required by sections 386 to 390 with respect to revenues received during or within 30 days after the election period.
(2) An election revenue return filed by a candidate shall include revenues received before the issue of the writ for which receipts have been issued, and sections 386 to 390 apply to such revenues as if they were contributions received during the election period.
Contributions of cash and negotiable instruments
386. With respect to contributions received in the form of cash or negotiable instruments, the election revenue return shall set out the following information:
(b) the number and total amount of all contributions of more than $250;
Contributions in kind
387. With respect to contributions in kind, an election revenue return shall set out the following information:
(a) the number and total amount of all contributions in kind;
(b) the number and total amount of all contributions in kind valued at more than $50;
(c) the total amount of all contributions in kind valued at $50 or less.
Revenue from other sources
388.(1) An election revenue return shall set out the total amount of revenues from sources other than contributions including, for each fundraising activity or other source, the amount of profit.
(2) An election revenue return filed by a candidate shall identify any revenues received from a registered political party.
Information about contributors
389.(1) An election revenue return shall set out
(a) for each contribution of cash or negotiable instruments over $250 listed pursuant to paragraph 386(b), the name and address of the contributor and the amount contributed, and
(b) for each contribution in kind with a value over $50 listed pursuant to paragraph 387(b), the name and address of the contributor, a description of the contribution, and an estimate of its value.
(2) Where a contribution of a total amount of more than $50 in any form is made by an unincorporated group, the election revenue return shall set out
(b) the names, addresses or statements required by subsection 373(2).
390.(1) A candidate shall file with the election revenue return the duplicate copies of all receipts issued during or within 30 days after the election period.
(2) A registered political party shall file with an election revenue return the duplicates of all receipts issued during or within 30 days after the election period to which the election revenue return applies.
ELECTION EXPENSES RETURN
391.(1) Subject to subsection (2), every registered political party and every candidate shall, within 60 days after the return to the writ, file an election expenses return with the chief electoral officer.
(2) Every registered political party and every candidate who pays a claim under subsection 406(2) shall forthwith file an addendum to the election expenses return with the chief electoral officer.
392. An election expenses return shall set out the fair market value of goods and services used during the election period as follows:
(a) electronic and print media, including all design, production, placement and distribution costs for advertising, literature and signs and other similar expenses;
(b) office and administration, including rent, supplies, telecommunications, equipment rental and insurance and other similar expenses;
(c) personnel, including staff salaries, per diems, honoraria, workers' compensation premiums, transportation, accommodation and other similar expenses;
(d) election travel, including gas or mileage, vehicle rental, flights, accommodation, meals and other similar expenses;
(e) any other costs, such as candidate stipends.
Rules for completing return
393. The following rules apply to the completion of an election expenses return:
(a) goods and services used in the election period shall be included whether purchased or received as a contribution and, if purchased, regardless of when payment is made or due;
(b) goods used in previous elections shall not be included;
(c) goods and services shall be valued at the amount, if any, that is paid.
ELECTION FINANCING RETURN
394. Every registered political party and every candidate shall, within 60 days after the return to the writ, file an election financing return with the chief electoral officer.
395.(1) An election financing return shall set out the following information:
(a) total revenues of cash and negotiable instruments, as reported in the election revenue return;
(b) total expenses, as reported in the election expenses return;
(c) the surplus or deficit for the election;
(d) total contributions in kind as reported in the election revenue return;
(e) total campaign value, being the sum of the total expenses and total contributions in kind.
(2) Where a deficit is reported under paragraph (1)(c), the election financing report shall set out the names and addresses of all debt holders to whom payment is owed, and the amount of each debt.
(3) Where a candidate was endorsed by a registered political party in an election, the candidate's surplus funds shall be paid to the registered political party.
(4) Where a candidate was not endorsed by a registered political party in an election, the candidate's surplus funds shall be remitted to the chief electoral officer, who shall pay them into the Yukon Consolidated Revenue Fund.
396.(1) Returns filed by candidates and registered political parties under this Part shall be kept available for public inspection during normal business hours by the chief electoral officer.
(2) The chief electoral officer shall ensure that the names and addresses of contributors of cash or negotiable instruments of $250 or less, contributors of contributions in kind of $50 or less, or unincorporated groups contributing $50 or less are not disclosed to persons inspecting returns under subsection (1).
(3) The chief electoral officer shall not permit access to the duplicates of receipts received from officials and official agents to any person except the assistant chief electoral officer or an authorized representative of Revenue Canada.
Retention of duplicate receipts
397. The chief electoral officer shall retain the duplicates of receipts received from officials and official agents until the expiration of six years after the end of the taxation year to which they relate.
Reports by the chief electoral officer
398.(1) The chief electoral officer may report to the Legislative Assembly respecting
(a) the information contained in returns filed by registered political parties or candidates,
(b) anonymous contributions of more than $50, or
(c) any other matter under this Part.
(2) The chief electoral officer may include in any report under paragraph (1)(a) the names of contributors over $250 and any debt holders.
Completion and verification of returns
399.(1) Returns to be filed by registered political parties under this Part shall be completed, signed and filed by an official of the party.
(2) Returns to be filed by a candidate under this Part shall be completed, signed and filed by the candidate's official agent, but if the official agent fails to do so, they shall be completed, signed and filed by the candidate.
(3) A person who signs a return pursuant to subsection (1) or (2) verifies that the person has checked all the records relevant to the completion of the return, and that the information set out in the return is complete and correct to the best of the person's knowledge.
Form of returns and receipts
400.(1) Returns filed by candidates and registered political parties under this Part shall be in the prescribed form.
(2) Receipts provided to officials of registered political parties and official agents of candidates under this Part shall be in the prescribed form.
Records and books of account
401.(1) A registered political party shall keep copies of receipts, records and books of account sufficient to enable the amounts contributed to the party to be verified by Revenue Canada at the address provided to the chief electoral officer.
(2) The official agent of a candidate shall keep copies of receipts, records and books of account sufficient to enable the amounts contributed to the candidate to be verified by Revenue Canada at the address provided to the chief electoral officer.
Validity of receipts for tax purposes
402.(1) A receipt that does not comply with this Part or that is issued otherwise than as authorized by this Part is void for the purposes of the Income Tax Act.
(2) A receipt issued on behalf of a registered political party or candidate does not subsequently lose its validity by reason of the deregistration of the party or the withdrawal of the candidate.
(3) Only a receipt issued for a contribution of cash or a negotiable instrument may be used for income tax credit purposes.
Pledges are void
403. An agreement that, in return for a contribution, limits a candidate's freedom of action in the Legislative Assembly if elected, is void.
Payment by official agent
404.(1) No payment shall be made by or on behalf of a candidate for or in respect of an election otherwise than by the candidate's official agent.
(2) Where there is no official agent, a claim may be sent to the candidate, but no such claim shall be paid except with the approval of a judge.
(3) Payments prohibited under subsection (1) include the following:
(a) payments made as an advance, loan or deposit;
(b) payments made in anticipation of an election;
(c) payments made during or after an election.
Payments by candidate for personal expenses
405.(1) Notwithstanding section 404, payments relating to the personal expenses of a candidate may lawfully be made by the candidate.
(2) The onus is upon the candidate to show that expenses paid by the candidate were personal expenses and were not in excess of what is ordinarily paid.
Time limit for claims
406.(1) Unless a person who has a claim against a candidate sends it to the official agent within one month of the day of the declaration of the result of the election, the right to recover the claim is barred, subject to subsection (2).
(2) In case of the death within the month of the person having the claim, unless the person's legal representative sends the claim within one month after probate or administration has been obtained, the right to recover the claim is barred.
(3) Notwithstanding subsections (1) and (2), any claim that would have been payable if sent in time may be paid by the candidate after that time if the claim is approved by a judge.
REVIEW OF ELECTORAL DISTRICT BOUNDARIES
407. In this Part, "commission" means the Electoral District Boundaries Commission appointed under section 408.
Electoral District Boundaries Commission
408.(1) The Commissioner in Executive Council must, as required by this Act, appoint an Electoral District Boundaries Commission consisting of an independent individual who may be a member of the judiciary.
(2) The appointment under subsection (1) shall be made following consultation with all registered political parties.
(3) The chief electoral officer shall provide advice, information and assistance to the commission.
Function of commission
409. The function of the commission is to make recommendations to the Legislative Assembly as to the area, boundaries and names of the electoral districts of the Yukon.
410.(1) The commission appointed under subsection 408(1) shall be paid remuneration for services on the commission in an amount prescribed by the Commissioner in Executive Council.
(2) The commission shall be paid reasonable travelling and living expenses incurred in the performance of duties at the rates prescribed by the Commissioner in Executive Council.
Time of appointment of commission
411.(1) The first commission shall be appointed following the 2001 Census conducted by Statistics Canada.
(2) A new commission must be appointed every 10 years following the appointment of the first commission.
Powers of commission
412. For the purposes of this Act, the commission has all of the powers of a board appointed under the Public Inquiries Act.
413. The commission may
(a) employ or retain technical and other advisors and employees that it considers necessary, and
(b) subject to the approval of the Commissioner in Executive Council, determine
(i) their conditions of employment, and
(ii) the remuneration and reimbursement for expenses to which they are entitled.
414. Money required to meet the remuneration and expenses of the commission and of the persons referred to in section 413 shall be paid out of the Yukon Consolidated Revenue Fund.
Preliminary report by commission
415.(1) Following the 2001 census conducted by Statistics Canada, the commission shall make a preliminary report to the Legislative Assembly respecting the need for a review of the boundaries of any or all of the electoral districts.
(2) The commission shall report similarly in accordance with this Part every 10 years after 2001.
416. The commission shall complete the preliminary report within 60 days of the release by Statistics Canada of census subdivision data for the Yukon resulting from the decennial census.
Recommendations in the preliminary report
417.(1) The preliminary report shall recommend one of the following:
(a) that no review of any electoral district boundaries take place;
(b) that a review of certain electoral district boundaries take place;
(c) that a review of all electoral district boundaries take place.
(2) If the commission makes a recommendation under paragraph (1)(b) or (c), the report shall include proposals for new boundaries and names for electoral districts.
(3) If the commission makes a recommendation under paragraph (1)(a), the preliminary report shall be considered a final report for the purposes of this Part.
Enumeration of electors
418. The commission may direct that an enumeration take place to determine the number of electors in any electoral district.
419. The commission may obtain public input for the purposes of the preliminary report by such methods as the commission considers advisable.
Reasons and information to be specified
420. The preliminary report shall specify the reasons for its recommendation and the information upon which it is based, which may include the following:
(a) available census data and other demographic information;
(b) the density and rate of growth of the population of any area;
(c) the accessibility, size and physical characteristics of any area;
(d) the facilities and patterns of transportation and communication within and between different areas;
(e) the number of electors in the electoral districts in existence at the time of the report and any special circumstances relating to those electoral districts;
(f) the boundaries of municipalities and First Nations governments;
(g) public input obtained under section 419;
(h) any other reasons or information relied upon by the commission.
Delivery of copies
421.(1) Immediately upon receiving the preliminary report, the Speaker shall table it in the Legislative Assembly.
(2) If the Legislative Assembly is not sitting when the Speaker receives the preliminary report, the Speaker shall immediately deliver copies of the report to all members of the Legislative Assembly.
Public access to preliminary report
422. The chief electoral officer shall keep copies of the preliminary report available for public inspection during the normal business hours of the office of the chief electoral officer.
423.(1) Where the commission has made a recommendation under paragraph 417(1)(b) or (c) in the preliminary report, it shall hold public hearings at the places and times it considers appropriate to enable public input on the area and boundaries of any proposed electoral district.
(2) The commission shall give reasonable public notice of the place, time and purpose of any public hearings held by it.
424.(1) Within six months after the date the preliminary report is tabled or delivered under section 421, the commission shall, where it has made a recommendation in the preliminary report under paragraph 417(1)(b) or (c), file a final report with the Legislative Assembly setting out the commission's final recommendations on electoral district boundaries.
(2) The final report shall be tabled, delivered and made public in the same manner as the preliminary report under section 421.
New electoral districts
425.(1) If the Assembly, by resolution, approves or approves with alterations the recommendations in the final report, the government shall, within six months, introduce a bill to establish new electoral districts for the Yukon in accordance with the resolution.
(2) The bill referred to in subsection (1) shall be stated to come into force on the dissolution of the Legislative Assembly which passed it.
(2) renumbering clauses 416 to 425 accordingly.
On Part 6
Chair: Is there a general debate on Part 6?
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Chair, on the elections financing, which is in Part 6, four meetings were held with representatives from each of the political parties. Amendments were reviewed and either incorporated or discarded after consideration by all sides. The end result is the amendments that I have just tabled. I want to thank the volunteers who gave their lunch hours and other time for review to work toward a satisfactory resolution of the key issues.
The key changes from the earlier draft include treating all unincorporated groups basically the same for purpose of disclosure, simplifying the language, and clarifying the intent as recognized by all three parties, such as defining "in kind", tracking aggregate donations over a year, and so on, and making the issuance of a receipt for donations of less than $50 up to the discretion of the parties.
One issue was raised where there was no consensus, and that was on anonymous donations. Some felt there should be no provision for anonymous donations, that it is not standard across Canada, and it was felt this would increase red tape for volunteers, including trying to track things like coffee-jar donations. Others felt that the amount of an anonymous or unreceipted donation should be raised to $100 from the proposed $50. Given that there are no limits on expenditures being proposed and that this would have put the Yukon at the high end of Canadian jurisdictions, it was decided, after consideration, to retain the mid-range of $50.
I also want to note the commitment that work on the forms required to fulfill this part will be done cooperatively with representatives from the political parties in this House.
Ms. Duncan: A great deal of work has gone into reworking Part 6, which covers election financing, and I would like to express our thanks to all the party officials who have put so much time and a lot of effort into this section.
The Yukon Liberal Party committed in the 1996 election campaign to increase the accountability of political parties for election spending. We firmly believe that Yukoners should know who is donating to which political parties. The changes to this section have accomplished that, and they have accomplished that with the agreement and the consensus building on the majority of sections by the party officials. Again, my thanks for their efforts, and I look forward to going through this clause by clause.
Mr. Phillips: I have just a few brief words. We would like to thank the volunteers from all political parties who put a lot of effort into coming to some consensus on this part of the act.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: In view of the comments that have been made by the opposition parties, I move that Part 6, clauses 370 through 406, be deemed as read and carried, if there is unanimous consent.
Chair: Are you agreed?
Chair: Unanimous consent has been granted.
Part 6 agreed to as amended
On Part 7
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Part 7 deals with the review of the electoral district boundaries. We listened carefully to the arguments raised by members opposite, and I have enjoyed the discussions I've had with my colleagues in the opposition parties. We looked at models from other jurisdictions and have been persuaded to revise the language in Part 7. The revised part is based partially on the suggested amendments from the Member for Riverside, and I would like to thank him for his considered suggestions.
What this part does is maintain a two-step process. Instead of the Chief Electoral Officer making recommendations on whether or not to set up a commission to review the boundaries, a commission will be set up and be responsible both for making the preliminary determination, and then for conducting public hearings on the actual proposed boundary changes. The process is also a little bit shorter than the proposal previously tabled.
The process will work as follows. Following the 2001 census, a commission shall be appointed consisting of an independent individual who may be a member of the judiciary. The Chief Electoral Officer will be charged with providing advice, information and assistance to the commission.
Within 60 days of the release by StatsCan of what is formally called census subdivision data, the commission shall complete its preliminary report on whether to review some or all or none of the electoral boundaries.
The preliminary report shall outline the reasons for the recommendations, and the legislation outlines some of the factors that may be considered. It shall be tabled within the Legislature or delivered to the Speaker.
If the commission recommends a review, either partial or complete, then the second phase begins. This phase includes public hearings, and the commission must issue a final report within six months after the release of the preliminary report.
The Legislature can then, by resolution, approve the recommendations, or approve them with alterations. Six months after the resolution, government shall introduce a bill to establish new electoral districts in accordance with the resolution. The bill will be proclaimed in force prior to the next general election.
The Bureau of Statistics has provided recommended language in consultation with Statistics Canada as the most accurate reflection of publication.
In 1971, the federal Statistics Act made it a statutory requirement to hold censuses of population and agriculture every five years. The census is the basis for the official determination of population in each jurisdiction. It is the single, authoritative source for information on population within each jurisdiction and for Canada as a whole.
The census counts are built from enumeration areas, which are discreet small areas that permit municipal, regional and subregional population counts. This enables the analysis of population changes in each enumeration area, or aggregates of enumeration areas.
The Yukon Bureau of Statistics is working with Statistics Canada census division to have enumeration areas geographically defined to permit aggregation into regional planning regions and electoral districts. This is consistent with other jurisdictions that use the official census as the basis for monitoring population changes over time in electoral districts.
In addition, Mr. Chair, the commission, with the assistance of the Chief Electoral Officer, may use other information in determining whether a boundary commission review is required in whole or in part.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, I'd like to take this opportunity to put on the record a few points with respect to Part 7 and the act as a whole.
The Liberal caucus supported the act at second reading, based on the assurances that the government was prepared to move on a number of very key issues. In most areas this has happened - the exceptions being tie votes, and we still have some reservations, particularly about the section before us which deals with electoral boundaries.
There has been a lot of work that has gone into this particular bill. The Minister of Justice has paid tribute to my colleague from Riverside's efforts with respect to this Part 7.
We do not support the NDP's decision to use the 10-year census timetable for electoral boundary reviews. We would follow the recommendation of the Chief Electoral Officer; namely, that reviews be held after every two elections. Ten years, Mr. Chair, is simply far too long, given the wild swings in population that we experience in the Yukon. In spite of this decision to use the 10-year census in the timetable, there has been substantial movement in other parts of Part 7, including the shortening of the timelines and removing a civil servant from making decisions on electoral boundaries. We suggested these, and we obviously support the improvements.
The real issue, Mr. Chair, with respect to boundaries is that the NDP government should have done a boundary review during this mandate. That will not happen. That we-know-what's-best-for-Yukon attitude has reared its ugly head. The government has used a number of excuses on this particular issue, even ignored their own legal opinion and simply refused, simply dug in their heels and been particularly stubborn on that section.
The issue of cost was brought up, and it should be noted, for the record, that the 1989 boundary review cost was just over $8,000. A boundary review should have been held during this mandate, and it was not. A mechanism has been put in place for a regular boundary review. It comes too late to fix the problem that has been created by the NDP failure to hold a review in this term.
It's also not the best method for review, as I have noted. That being said, there have been a number of improvements that have been made to Part 7 and to the Elections Act. We have already noted them.
Mr. Phillips: Today, again, we clearly see the difference between the Yukon Party and the Liberal Party. We didn't ride the fence like the Liberals did. We looked at the bill as presented by the NDP initially, and said that this bill, the Elections Act, doesn't cut it for Yukoners. It denies the right of some people to fair representation in this House. It divides or decides an election by the drawing of lots. It was a poorly drafted bill, and the one, fundamental principle that we disagreed with strongly was the fact that electoral boundaries were going to be put off.
We said then, and we repeat again now, that we felt there should be an electoral boundaries commission established after every second election, and that 10 years is too long to wait. We said then, and we say now, unlike the Liberals, that a tie vote shouldn't be broken by drawing lots. We said then, and we say now, that we all know in this House that there already are some wide discrepancies out there with several ridings in the territory that don't meet the Supreme Court challenge with respect to deviations in numbers.
We feel that, by the passage of this act, we're opening ourselves up to a constitutional challenge in the next election, and what we're really doing, Mr. Chair, which disturbs me the most about this act - the way it's written here today - we are knowingly - knowingly - violating the constitutional rights of Yukoners for fair and equal representation in this House, because we know now that Yukoners don't have that fair and equal representation, and we're failing to act. This government put it off until the last minute, and has caused this problem that we're faced with here today.
Tongue in cheek, maybe I could suggest to the Minister of Justice that we could deal with this matter in the New Democratic way of democracy. We could draw lots. We could draw a lot and see if this passed. Maybe that would be the real democratic way to do it. They seem to think that's the way to settle an election.
Mr. Chair, this is unacceptable. We said in second reading, we have said publicly and we say today, unlike the Liberals who have changed their minds about three times in this bill, we do not support the act as it's written today. It denies Yukoners the constitutional right to have fair and equal representation, and we'll be voting against the bill.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Chair, to respond to the comments made by members opposite, we are not acting in a position that is contrary to the legal opinion that was prepared by the Department of Justice. The legal opinion noted that in none of the cases that they surveyed an existing election result was struck down or invalidated. The courts look to legislatures to provide legislation as guidance. It is most unlikely that a court would simply strike down the boundaries or strike down an election based on those boundaries without giving the Legislature a reasonable opportunity to legislate new boundaries within constitutionally permitted guidelines, as interpreted by the courts.
Mr. Chair, that last sentence was a quotation from the legal opinion.
I would also note, Mr. Chair, that boundary reviews every 10 years are common in other jurisdictions. Boundary reviews are also conducted after reviewing the Canada census that is conducted each decade.
In addition, Mr. Chair, I might note that the 1990 report of the Chief Electoral Officer of the Yukon made a recommendation that the Legislative Assembly give consideration to establishing, in legislation, a requirement for a new electoral district boundaries commission to be appointed in a set amount of time, such as following every 10 years or following every third general election.
Mr. Chair, we support the amendments that are before us, and believe that an automatic review of boundaries every 10 years is a sound practice.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Chair, I would like to restate - because some members have obviously misunderstood - the points with respect to the Yukon Liberal caucus position with regard to the Elections Act.
We supported the act at second reading, based on assurances that the government was prepared to move on a number of key issues. This act before us - and including the amended Part 7 - has 425 sections in it. In most areas, there was some movement. We disagreed with the government's position on tie votes. Everyone in this House thought and agreed that Part 6 was a far, far, far better Part 6 than was originally presented, and it was done by volunteers.
We in our party committed to clear, open, honest reporting of election financing. On Part 7, we proposed amendments. We worked very hard on this particular section. We did not agree with the final presentation by the minister of Part 7. However, there are some suggestions that we have made that have been accepted, and we support those.
Voting against this bill will not change the fact that the NDP didn't do the electoral boundaries review that should have been done. Voting against the bill would be akin to - if you'll pardon the expression, Mr. Chair - throwing the baby out with the bath water because we disagree with one or two areas where the government did not move - is not a reason to not support the majority of these 425 sections in this bill and the movement has happened on Part 7.
It is not everything that we had suggested - there has been some movement. It's not the electoral boundaries review that should have happened - that should have happened early in the mandate of the government, and it did not. It has mandated it for future governments, perhaps not based upon what we suggested - the government is fixated on this census - however it is mandated, and it has improved. Were we elected to government, reviews would be held after every two elections, and we would change that.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: I seek unanimous consent that sections 407 through 425 be deemed as read and carried, and that clauses 416 to 425 be renumbered accordingly.
Part 7 agreed to as amended
Amendment in its entirety agreed to
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Chair, I move that you report Bill No. 82 out of Committee with amendment.
Some Hon. Members: Division.
Mr. Fentie: If agreed, Mr. Chair, I move that we do the count in lieu of waiting the five minutes.
Chair: The question before the Committee is whether the bill should be reported out of Committee with amendment. Would those in favour, please rise.
Chair: The ayes have it.
Chair: I declare the bill reported out of Committee with amendment.
Committee of the Whole Motion No. 3
Motion re appearance of witnesses
Mr. Cable: I move
THAT representatives of the Workers' Compensation Health and Safety Board appear as witnesses before Committee of the Whole from 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Monday, December 13, 1999, to discuss matters relating to the Workers' Compensation Health and Safety Board.
Chair: It has been moved by the Member for Riverside
Mr. Fentie: Mr. Chair, based on the motion tabled by the Member for Riverside, it's obvious that the opposition today was unable to manage their time in debate and knew full well, based on the minister's commitments, that the witnesses were scheduled during the 25-day sitting to be here on December 13 - Monday next week.
I believe that this motion is unnecessary as it's obvious that the business of this House is now completed. The minister has committed to the opposition parties that the witnesses for both the Workers' Compensation Health and Safety Board and Yukon Development Corporation would appear before this House within the first two weeks of the spring sitting.
Mr. Chair, this side of the House will not support the motion, and I would hope that the members opposite can see their way clear to accept what has been put before them by the minister.
Mr. Cable: Mr. Chair, there are many contentious issues surrounding the operations of the Workers' Compensation Health and Safety Board, and I draw the members' attention to the clock, which shows 4:50 p.m. We are 40 minutes away from adjourning in a regular course of events, so I'm not sure where the government House leader is coming from.
His minister, the Minister of Economic Development, had set this appointment up. He said that in the House some time ago, so what's the problem? If it's a matter of the members coming back to the House on Monday, I don't see that that is a great inconvenience. And surely, looking at the clock, if we carry out the House's business and call in the Commissioner, surely we can adjourn and come back here Monday night to deal with this board, this board that has raised a large number of public issues.
Mr. Fentie: Mr. Chair, based on the insistence from the Member for Riverside, I would move a friendly amendment
THAT we change the motion tabled by the member to read "from the timelines of 3:30 till 5:30 p.m. on the afternoon of Monday the 13th".
Chair: Is there a debate on the amendment?
Mr. Cable: That friendly amendment is acceptable to the Liberal caucus.
Chair: Does the amendment carry?
Committee will recess for five minutes.
Chair: I will now call Committee of the Whole to order.
Unanimous consent re withdrawal of Committee Motion No. 3 and amendment
Mr. Fentie: I seek unanimous consent from the House to withdraw my amendment and to have the motion tabled by the Member for Riverside withdrawn, and we will simply, upon the completion of the business of the House, adjourn until 1:30 p.m. Monday.
Committee of the Whole Motion No. 3 and amendment withdrawn
Mr. Fentie: I move that the Speaker do now resume the Chair.
May the House have a report from Committee of the Whole?
Mr. McRobb: Committee of the Whole has considered Bill No. 19, Third Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, and Bill No. 92, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Public Service Act and the Cabinet and Caucus Employees Act, and directed me to report them without amendment. Further, Committee of the Whole has considered Bill No. 82, Elections Act, and directed me to report it with amendment.
Speaker: You have heard the report from the Chair of Committee of the Whole. Are you agreed?
Speaker: I declare the report carried.
Mr. Fentie: Pursuant to the agreement of the House leaders, I would request the unanimous consent of the House to set aside the provisions of Standing Order 59(2) to allow Bill No. 82, entitled Elections Act, to be called for third reading today.
Speaker: Is there unanimous consent?
Speaker: Unanimous consent has been granted.
Bill No. 91: Third Reading
Clerk: Third reading, Bill No. 91, standing in the name of the hon. Mr. McDonald.
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill No. 91, Fireweed Fund Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Speaker: It has been moved by the government House leader that Bill No. 91, entitled Fireweed Fund Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Motion for third reading of Bill No. 91 agreed to
Speaker: I declare that Bill No. 91 has passed this House.
Bill No. 93: Third Reading
Clerk: Third reading, Bill No. 93, standing in the name of the hon. Ms. Moorcroft.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill No. 93, An Act to Amend the Supreme Court Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Speaker: It has been moved by the Minister of Justice that Bill No. 93, entitled An Act to Amend the Supreme Court Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Motion for third reading of Bill No. 93 agreed to
Speaker: I declare that Bill No. 93 has passed this House.
Bill No. 19: Third Reading
Clerk: Third reading, Bill No. 19, standing in the name of the hon. Mr. McDonald.
Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 19, entitled Third Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, be now read a third time and do pass.
Speaker: It has been moved by the Government Leader that Bill No. 19, entitled Third Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, be now read a third time and do pass.
Are you prepared for the question?
Speaker: Division has been called.
Speaker: Mr. Clerk, would you poll the House.
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Agree.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: Agree.
Hon. Mr. Keenan: Agree.
Hon. Mr. Sloan: Agree.
Hon. Mr. Fairclough: Agree.
Mr. McRobb: Agree.
Mr. Fentie: Agree.
Mr. Hardy: Agree.
Ms. Duncan: Disagree.
Mr. Cable: Disagree.
Mrs. Edelman: Disagree.
Ms. Buckway: Disagree.
Mr. Ostashek: Disagree.
Mr. Phillips: Disagree.
Mr. Jenkins: Disagree.
Clerk: Mr. Speaker, the results are eight yea, seven nay.
Speaker: The yeas have it.
Motion for third reading of Bill No. 19 agreed to
Speaker: I declare that Bill No. 19 has passed this House.
Bill No. 92: Third Reading
Clerk: Third reading, Bill No. 92, standing in the name of the hon. Mr. McDonald.
Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill No. 92, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Public Service Act, and the Cabinet and Caucus Employees Act, be now read a third time and pass.
Speaker: It has been moved by the Government Leader that Bill No. 92, entitled An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Public Service Act, and the Cabinet and Caucus Employees Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Motion for third reading of Bill No. 92 agreed to
Speaker: I declare that Bill No. 92 has passed this House.
Bill No. 82: Third Reading
Clerk: Third reading, Bill No. 82, standing in the name of the hon. Ms. Moorcroft.
Hon. Ms. Moorcroft: I move that Bill No. 82, entitled Elections Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Speaker: It has been moved by the Minister of Justice that Bill No. 82, entitled Elections Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
Are you prepared for the question? Are you agreed?
Ms. Duncan: Agree.
Mr. Cable: Agree.
Mrs. Edelman: Agree.
Ms. Buckway: Agree.
Clerk: Mr. Speaker, the results are 12 yea, three nay.
Motion for third reading of Bill No. 82 agreed to
Speaker: I declare that Bill No. 82 has passed this House.
Mr. Fentie: I move that the House do now adjourn.
Speaker: It has been moved by the government House leader that the House do now adjourn.
Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 Monday.
The House adjourned at 5:25 p.m.
The following Legislative Returns were tabled December 9, 1999:
99-1-122
Contractor's business licence: City of Whitehorse licence number provided by contractor (McDonald)
Oral, Hansard, p. 5948
99-1-123
Televising "town hall" meetings: explanation of costs (McDonald)