Source: http://pjmedia.com/blog/do-challenges-to-wisconsin-labor-bill-have-merit-no/2/
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PJ Media » Do Challenges to Wisconsin Labor Bill Have Merit? No.
Do Challenges to Wisconsin Labor Bill Have Merit? No.
A close look at Wisconsin law shows that Judge Sumi is wrong and the suits are simply buying time, hoping the state senate flips next election cycle.
byGary Wickert
April 1, 2011 - 12:55 pm
<- Prev Page 2 of 2 View as Single Page	The merits of the Democrats’ desperate effort to delay a legitimately and democratically passed law are lacking. Wisconsin’s open meetings laws specify requirements of cities, towns, and other governmental entities for notice and conduct of meetings in order to ensure that the public is not kept in the dark and action is not taken without proper notice. Specifically, the Democrats and Judge Sumi are concerned with whether there was a violation of Section19.84 of the open meetings laws, which provides as follows:
§19.84 (1) Public notice of all meetings of a governmental body shall be given in the following manner: … (2) Every public notice of a meeting of a governmental body shall set forth the time, date, place and subject matter of the meeting, including that intended for consideration at any contemplated closed session, in such form as is reasonably likely to apprise members of the public and the news media thereof. The public notice of a meeting of a governmental body may provide for a period of public comment, during which the body may receive information from members of the public. (3) Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.	A close look at the open meetings laws reveals that they do not apply in this case. With regard to another section of those laws, Section 19.84(2) provides as follows:
The relevant question then becomes whether there was a rule of the Senate or Assembly which conflicted with Section 19.84. And there was. Joint Rule 27 provides as follows:
To make the Democrats’ position even more far-fetched, the committee meeting complained of was not even a regularly scheduled meeting and therefore Rule 75 would not even apply. Senate Rule 93 goes even further with regard to the notice required prior to a committee meeting like the one the Democrats are complaining of. It provides:
Senate Rule 93. (2) A notice of a committee meeting is not required other than posting on the legislative bulletin board, and a bulletin of committee hearings may not be published.
Senate Rule 93 (3). (3) The daily calendar is in effect immediately upon posting on the legislative bulletin boards. The calendar need not be distributed.
The notice required by Rule 93 was provided. The Senate clerk posted notice of this committee online.
But the merits of the union lawsuit intended to thwart democracy aren’t really important to the public employee unions. What is important is additional delay so that more and more unions can ram through last-minute contract negotiations which will tide them over until the next election cycle. Banking on a recall of the “extreme” Republicans looking to save Wisconsin from insolvency, they are hopeful that they can avoid the will of the taxpayers who pay all of the lavish salaries and benefits altogether.
What we are seeing in Madison is sanity beginning to peek through from behind a cloud of union self-interest, red tape, debt, and huge deficits. With a poor economy, no stimulus funds, the ending of budget gimmicks, and taxes maxed out, more spending cuts will be necessary to save our state. Thwarting legitimately passed legislation with a radical judicially legislating judge named Sumi is the only way for the self-interested Democrats and union supporters to circumvent one of life’s simplest truths: you can’t spend more than you make.
<- Prev Page 2 of 2 View as Single Page	Gary Wickert is a board-certified trial lawyer, living in Cedarburg, Wisconsin with his wife and two sons. He has a political column in Reality News and has been an op-ed contributor for Ozaukee County's News Graphic as well as a feature writer for several Wisconsin magazines. He is also the author of several legal treatises on a variety of subjects and currently serves as supervisor in the town of Cedarburg. In 2011, Gary lost a bid for the Wisconsin Assembly in the Republican
Primary by 72 votes.
Click here to hide legacy comments	58 Comments, 32 Threads
1. Tex Expatriate	A very thoughtful and thorough analysis, and thank you for it. The reactive paroxysm by wisconsins Socialists and Communists shows us what many other states, perhaps with lesser intensity, are in for over the next few years.
April 1, 2011 - 1:58 pm Link to this Comment
Dr. Frank Lippenheimer	Yes, I believe you are right. I live in Minnesota. We are beset by leftist unions & pink-haired freaks of every description, and we have a new Democrat governor (Dayton-of-the-Silver-Spoon) who HATES free enterprise, and yet the People here are angry (and frightened) enough that I do believe the Tea-Party revolution will take root here as well. In fact it already has. Minnesota entered the Union as a strong Republican state. We stood four-square for Abraham Lincoln. We will not fail the United States of America. The socialist and communists will break here. They will fight like banshees. But they will fail, and Minnesota will take its historic place as a champion of American exceptionalism and the American Way. Huzzah! God Bless America.
April 1, 2011 - 8:41 pm Link to this Comment
nickel	I hope you are correct. I am from Maryland and we will cravenly continue to lick the boots of our Democratic/Progressive/Fascist masters. As one of the major bedroom communities to Washington’s political elitists and the serfs who serve them, Maryland is home to a sickening combination of Government bureaucrats, entitlement recipients, Government fed parasites, illegal aliens of all stripes, inner city mooches and just plain government toadies.
April 2, 2011 - 6:07 am Link to this Comment
Oregonian	Condolences, nickel! It sounds like you have discovered the original site of Dante’s Inferno.
April 3, 2011 - 12:44 pm Link to this Comment
SamAdams25	Bless you Dr. Frank, and all of the Patriots in Minnesota for standing your ground. I suggest that you point to Michigan as the poster child for what unions ultimately do to a state. I would also suggest that you make every effort to publicly expose union corruption and thuggery so people will know the truth in your state.
Although many in the Southern half of the country are ready to completely write off the Northern union states as already ruined, know that there are hundreds of thousands of Tea Partiers who support you and your struggle. Organize, communicate, and coordinate!
April 2, 2011 - 12:44 pm Link to this Comment
Stuart Gathman	Ironically, the black flight from Southern states during the Jim Crow era has reversed, and blacks are voting with their feet and moving en masse back to the South where fewer states have been taken over by Socialists. If only they would make the connection between the pernicious programs that are destroying black communities (and incidentally bankrupting the country) and driving them back to the South, and their voting history at the polls since the 1960s.
April 3, 2011 - 8:16 pm Link to this Comment
hammer1	I suppose you hated the best Gov we ever had too? That would be Mr Ventura.
April 3, 2011 - 8:44 am Link to this Comment
2. FAITH7	I found this little tidbit while I was actually looking for something else. I just wonder why there have been no ‘updates’ since 2007???. Have we all been good little boys and girls since then or is there something more sinister going on??…
http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/enforce_2007.htm
Union people are so gullible and brainwashed. It seems its not that the Union Leaders aren’t being ‘paid’ enough by Union ‘workers’. The [Corrupt] [Union leaders] and their [Cronies] feel they can tinker with the till when no one is looking and STEAL Union Members Money…
Wonder what has been happening since 2007? Says the last update was 2/12/10 hmmmmmm…. Now THAT sounds a little [fishy] to me. And quite frankly it should to a lot of other people…
April 1, 2011 - 2:36 pm Link to this Comment
3. i b wright	What we’ve seen in Wisconsin is simply a preview of the future for the entire country. A pyrrhic victory for the good guys who want to cut the outrageous spending. The spending is either not going to be allowed to take place by a corrupt liberal judge or the thugs will steal a recall election.
Do you really think it’s going to be different at the national level when they try to cut ss and medicare to keep them from going broke?
It doesn’t take Nostradameus to see where this is all going.
Spending will never be cut and the fed is going to print up the money to cover the difference when the gov’t runs out of money. Have you seen ONE SINGLE THING to convince you that these two things i predict won’t happen?
April 1, 2011 - 2:58 pm Link to this Comment
M. Report	You are correct as to the _Federal_ future,
which will be shared by the bankrupt states;
The solvent, successful, sovereign states
will survive the coming Hard Times, and
reunite the states under a reformed and
diminished federal government.
April 2, 2011 - 4:05 pm Link to this Comment
4. RJE	It’s too bad that being in the right isn’t enough these days.
April 1, 2011 - 4:26 pm Link to this Comment
5. MissTerry	Governor Walker has shown himself to be
a fine leader for the State of Wisconsin.
It is indeed sad that THOSE UNION MEMBERS
who felt it was ok to:
*..forget about the kids they were supposed to teach.
*..damage that lovely Capitol building.
*..take Dr. notes stating a sickness when they were fine.
*..berate and use foul language on anyone not union.
They did this and much more but they CONDONED THOSE LIBERAL
POLITICIANS THAT RAN AWAY AND HID TO PREVENT AN HONEST VOTE.
Can anyone in Wisconson imagine their kid’s school team
running away and hiding because they thought they were
going to lose the game? What would you tell your child if
that is what his coach told him to do?
Someone’s tax monies are being used to clean up the Capitol
and clean up the surrounding area because those UNIONISTS
were unable to control themselves and act with some dignity.
Yet they would be the first to complain if others did the
April 1, 2011 - 4:49 pm Link to this Comment
hammer1	You don’t live in wisconsin do you or have ever belonged to a union.
April 3, 2011 - 8:31 am Link to this Comment
Stuart Gathman	Private unions at their best are a symbiotic parasite, raising worker morale and productivity at the cost of siphoning off some of the workers pay. A healthy union recognizes that exorbitant demands will put the host out of business, and tempers their demands accordingly – balancing the priorities of workplace safety, benefits, and such with what the marketplace will support.
When a union gets out of hand, and puts their host out of business, but the government comes along and (unconstitutionally) bails them out, then the union grows sick and evil, like a cancer. This is what happened to UAW.
Public sector unions are always evil, as earlier proponents of unions all recognized (including FDR). There is no check on public unions like threat of bankruptcy – they just stick it to taxpayers until the entire state or nation is bankrupt. Ideally, public sector unions should be outlawed entirely. Limiting what they can demand is a compromise.
April 3, 2011 - 8:33 pm Link to this Comment
6. macko	Okay help me out here. If socialist see bankrupting the government as a way to bring down the capitalists and form a socialist society don’t they think that their own unions might be blamed instead of credited? Wouldn’t they then look at these union folks as being the bourgeois? I mean big paychecks, cadillac health plans, fat pensions, etc?
April 1, 2011 - 5:45 pm Link to this Comment
7. Brian N	You good sir are a liar or just not willing to do your research.
Senate rule 93(2) actually says:
(2) No notice of hearing before a committee shall be required other than posting on the legislative bulletin board, and no bulletin of committee hearings shall be published. hearing before a committee has nothing to do with committee meeting. It has to do with hearings, and no one hasd a problem with a hearing. http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rules/SenateRules.html#Rule%2093
Why would you completely make up the wording of a senate rule?
April 1, 2011 - 6:57 pm Link to this Comment
8. Brian N	Also, all JR 27 states is that Joint Rule 27 states is that meetings are open to the public, it does not have anything to with notice unless it relates to JR 75. As that does not conflict with §19.84, 19.84(2) is irrelevant. §19.87(2) only comes into affect if the §19.84 actually conflicts with JR or Senate Rule. As there is not direct or actual conflict it does not remove the minimum 2 hour requirement. Learn to read a statute. Thank god you are not a judge, as you can only copy and paste from other bad articles.
April 1, 2011 - 7:07 pm Link to this Comment
9. Brian N	All JR 27 states is that Joint Rule 27 states is that meetings are open to the public, it does not have anything to with notice unless it relates to JR 75. As that does not conflict with §19.84, 19.84(2) is irrelevant. §19.87(2) only comes into affect if the §19.84 actually conflicts with JR or Senate Rule. As there is not direct or actual conflict it does not remove the minimum 2 hour requirement. Learn to read a statute. Thank god you are not a judge, as you can only copy and paste from other bad articles.
April 1, 2011 - 7:09 pm Link to this Comment
10. gs	1. According to the header, A close look at Wisconsin law shows that Judge Sumi is wrong and the suits are simply buying time, hoping the state senate flips next election cycle. According to the article, The importance of electing David Prosser to the Supreme Court is now readily apparent.
The article is correct. The Left is trying to flip the Supreme Court right now, not to wait for the next legislature election. In fact, they’re pursuing Senate recalls right now. The discrepancy with the header is ahem presumably an editorial overight.
2. What we are seeing in Madison is sanity beginning to peek through from behind a cloud of union self-interest, red tape, debt, and huge deficits.
Gary Wickert, I hope that you as a Wisconsin resident know something I don’t about the prospects for Tuesday. I am concerned by what has seemed a lackadaisical attitude by the Right toward that important election, which will be the first significant voter referendum on the results of November 2010.
April 1, 2011 - 7:14 pm Link to this Comment
11. L.E. Liesner	What it looks like is the real problem is with the judicial system and is not limited strictly to Wisconsin. The left has loaded the system with activist judges that don’t care what the law says and they legislate from the bench. The whole system has to be revamped so that we can become a nation of laws again. The judicial chaos we have today is destroying our country.
April 1, 2011 - 7:15 pm Link to this Comment
12. Andrew	Living in the state of Cheeseheads, I have seen this whole debacle taking place. I can tell you that Gov. Walker is quite unflappable and will not be bought and sold under any circumstances. If David Prosser will be elected to the state supreme Court next Tuesday, it will make things easier for this process to go through, although the liberals are doing what they do best in trying to get their liberal candidate elected. There is a lot of slanderous mud being slung toward the very decent conservative and it shows the true colours of the thuggish union dirt to anyone who is paying attention to the TV ads. I hope that some of the borderline libs and independents will be swayed toward “seeing the light” through this debacle and that it will somehow become contagious across the nation in the upcoming future.
April 1, 2011 - 7:23 pm Link to this Comment
13. Mark	What the Wisconsin legislature needs to do is simply pass a bill that would put a similar moratorium on all new labor contracts of unionized state employees.
April 1, 2011 - 7:50 pm Link to this Comment
hammer1	Can’t do that!
April 3, 2011 - 8:33 am Link to this Comment
14. Bilgeman	As I understand it, the result of Tuesday’s Supreme Court election will not matter either, since Judge Prosser will continue in office until August, (and I presume that this matter will be adjudicated before then).
If you want to see ugly, look at Judge Sumi’s threat to bring Bar proceedings against any involved lawyer who publicly criticizes her rulings…
If THAT isn’t a 3rd Reich VolksTribunal-worthy edict, then WTF is?
April 1, 2011 - 8:16 pm Link to this Comment
gs	As I understand it, the result of Tuesday’s Supreme Court election will not matter either, since Judge Prosser will continue in office until August, (and I presume that this matter will be adjudicated before then).
I overlooked that when writing my #10. Point taken.
Nevertheless, I suspect that if, heaven forbid, Prosser loses, the Left will find ways to game the appeals process so as to give the Court’s reconstituted liberal majority the final say. They’re not willing to abide by the 2010 election. Why would they abide by a 4-3 Prosser-based decision?
April 2, 2011 - 8:44 am Link to this Comment
15. Pragmatist	Margaret Thatcher said ‘Socialism fails when it runs out of OTHER PEOPLES money’ and that is exactly what is happening to so many States and the the US in general. The King Canutes of the Unions and Democratic Party are just trying to hold back the inevitable. Obama is different he WANTS America brought down to Third World status after all he keeps apologising for America and telling the world America is not special and is doing everything he can to stymie businesses.
April 1, 2011 - 8:29 pm Link to this Comment
16. gverdi	If judges are going to ignore laws and inject themselves into legislative maters based on their personal political beliefs it is time to remove them from the bench. It is time for Scot Walker and the members of the legislature who passed the law to impeach Judge Sumi.
April 1, 2011 - 9:43 pm Link to this Comment
Claudia	I agree. I can not believe the arrogance of the leftist judiciary or legislators that hid out for weeks, I suppose there is nothing on the books about that?
My parents taught school in Wisconsin for decades and were horrified at the thought of a union run school district. It certainly has not brought WI better schools, just moved socialism a whole lot closer and property taxes a whole lot higher! And they wonder why business has been moving out of Wisconsin for decades?
April 2, 2011 - 12:02 pm Link to this Comment
17. Freddy	Late on Friday Judge Sumi indicated it will take her several months to actually rule on this matter. Clearly, she does not want to issue any ruling at any time as that would move the legal process out of her control. If allowed, she will be pondering this matter for several decades.
To me, this clearly indicates HER contempt for the law.
Does anyone know what it takes to remove this clearly biased judge from these proceedings?
April 1, 2011 - 10:21 pm Link to this Comment
spinoneone	How about a Federal injunction?
April 2, 2011 - 12:30 am Link to this Comment
Bilgeman	“Late on Friday Judge Sumi indicated it will take her several months to actually rule on this matter. Clearly, she does not want to issue any ruling at any time as that would move the legal process out of her control. If allowed, she will be pondering this matter for several decades.”
I suspect you are right about Sumi, but the fact is that the matter has already moved beyond her jurisdiction. The Wisconsin Appeals Court sent this issue directly before their Supreme Court, and I think that that court will be anything but dilatory in adjudicating this.
Once that happens, Sumi and her precious TRO’s will become just so much fodder for the next political campaign. As I understand it, her TRO was against the Secretary of State, and ONLY the SecState, to keep him from publishing the law. It was her and the Dane County DA’s bad that they didn’t inclute the Legislative Reference Bureau,(who actually do the publishing…and did), and that is what her re-issued TRO was about. Amending her own sloppy work in the original TRO.
Not to mention the unprecedented action of a judge trying to prevent a bill that has been passed by the Legislature and sigbned by the Governor from becoming law. Judges are supposed to rule on the laws as they are written, not block the constitutional process by which they become law.
But this is nothing new to moonbats. Think back to the fates of California Proposition 187 and Proposition 8. Both Props passed in California’s referendum system, and represented the will of the electorate, but the moonbats who opposed them tied these initiatives up in the courts.
Moonbats are tyrants and only a certified moron would believe their propaganda about how they are advocates for the People when they seek to rule the people by judicial fiat.
April 2, 2011 - 5:37 am Link to this Comment
18. David R	So if Joint Rule 27 doesn’t apply, why did you bring it into the argument? And if it does apply, doesn’t the fact that it states “If time permits” mean that there is no conflict with OML and thus 19.87(2) doesn’t apply? Oh, and the reason for the delay is to allow the four GOP Reps/Senators to have due process. If they would waive their immunity, it would move faster. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your diatribe.
April 2, 2011 - 12:42 am Link to this Comment
19. Marc Malone	They went about this the wrong way. They should not have bothered limiting union bargaining powers. They should have limited government ability to negotiate these things. “I’m sorry, Mr. Union Negotiator, but we are forbidden by law to negotiate these specific things with you.”
Of course, the real death blow is the forbidding of unions to take dues automatically in union shops. That is going after the money. That is going for the jugular. That is what the real fight is about! Money = Power
April 2, 2011 - 4:52 am Link to this Comment
20. R. L. Hails Sr. P. E.	There is an excellent article, today, in the Wall Street Journal, that identifies far more important issues in this date of effectivity conflict. In summary form, the USSC has clearly ruled that until a law is formally proclaimed, the matter is wholly legislative and the judiciary has no authority to interfere. A stay is a delay, pending judicial review of facts and law. Thus the good judge is trying to be half pregnant; either the paper is law or not. If not she has no power, if it is law, she may hold it pending litigation. Her family is active in contributing to the Democratic party.
The greater point is an election, this Tuesday, to the Wisconsin Supreme Court, in which one candidate, JoAnne Kloppenburg, is clearly running to overturn the law, if it is law. There are oceans of union funding behind her. Her position, prior to becoming a judge and hearing the case: “the events of the last few weeks have put into sharp relief how important the Supreme Court is as a check on overreach in the other branches of government.” Next Tuesday, any pretense that the Wisconsin Judiciary is a non political, judicial body, may be destroyed forever. Then, for the rest of us, another question arises; how far does this totalitarian cloud extend?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576236583966428502.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop#articleTabs%3Darticle
April 2, 2011 - 7:36 am Link to this Comment
21. Dave	Seems like a several month delay will impact the state budget. Will the state need to furlough the workers the activist judge is trying to protect?
April 2, 2011 - 9:58 am Link to this Comment
Bilgeman	” Will the state need to furlough the workers the activist judge is trying to protect?”
Good “hardball” move on Walker’s part. Open-ended furlough until the thing is decided at the WISC.
In fact, that would be a masterful bit of jiu-jitsu, because then the furloughed workers would be rooting for the unions to lose so that they could go back to work.
April 2, 2011 - 11:27 am Link to this Comment
22. cubanbob	Gov. Walker and the WI legislature might as well do a revote except this time ban outright all public service unions and make WI a right to work state and ban closed shop agreements. And just for shits and giggles impeach and remove the ridiculously named judge Sumi and if elected, Kloppenburg.
April 2, 2011 - 11:08 am Link to this Comment
hammer1	So you want to become like all the southern right to work states and be flooded with migrant workers who will work for minimum wage? Isn’t that a conflict of the ideology of the republican stump that they hate the border crossers but thats who makes the the big corporations all their money by hiring low wage earning people.
April 3, 2011 - 8:42 am Link to this Comment
23. rrbs	I worked in a Union Shop for a few years. The union certainly had some good purpose. The Union bosses constantly pounded into members (subjects?) the class warfare/exploitation doctrine. They wanted you to think that the company officials where driving fancy cars, smoking big cigars, and constantly laughing/plotting at how they were going to exploit the poor dumb worker schmucks. You can certainly see this in how the union members are reacting to the battles in Ohio and Wisconsin.
#19. I like this approach.
April 2, 2011 - 11:20 am Link to this Comment
24. Larry	Brian N. attacks the author for not doing research (or being a liar). But it is Brian who did not do his research (or is a liar). The link he gives for rule 93 is from 1997. The current Senate rules can be found here: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/senhome.htm
April 2, 2011 - 11:40 am Link to this Comment
25. WRJonas	Great article and some terrific commentary.
I would like to know how elected legislators can through absentia effect the actions of members who attended and acted in legal compliance with their office? Should not the dereliction of duty principle be applied against any member who voluntarily vacates his or her office, and punished accordingly?
April 2, 2011 - 1:22 pm Link to this Comment
26. M. Report	How about a judicial ruling on the recent Union efforts
to ‘persuade’ small businesses to support the Union position ?
April 2, 2011 - 4:10 pm Link to this Comment
27. skip gainer	I always thought that the governor and state legislators made the law not some piss ant judge. Unless we do not have the rule of law anymore, which we do not have. We do not have the rule of law but the rule of the dictator with the most money Look at what those union animals have gotten away with, so far. If it was the TEA PARTY PEOPLE demonstrating they would be attacked or maybe killed by these union thugs. When are people going to start and do what is right for their country instead of this me, me, me stuff. I an a union member but I am ashamed at what I see the unions in Wisconsin are doing!
April 2, 2011 - 10:54 pm Link to this Comment
28. hammer1	Just wait till all those Republicans get recalled including the college drop out Gov Walker!
April 3, 2011 - 8:47 am Link to this Comment
Bilgeman	Some people don’t NEED to attend college to make a living, you bourgeois tool.
I know that that concept is totally alien to your worldview, but it is true.
And just FYI, there ARE unions and union members in Right To Work states,
just not very many of them, since unions that do not enjoy the monopoly of the closed shop system find it very difficult to justify their existence to prospective members.
Folks in Right to Work states own homes and cars and pay their bills without ever having to deal with anyone from a union,(and the nonsense Marxist blather that too many unions puke out).
In fact, because unions have to actually JUSTIFY their existence to the workers…and can’t, businesses find a friendlier environment to establish and grow in R2W states…which MEANS that a whole lot MORE workers can pay their mortgages and car notes, etc.
But again, I understand that this concept is totally alien to the moonbat programming you have received in your sloganeering classes.
April 3, 2011 - 9:03 am Link to this Comment
hammer1	Do you have to work hard to be so ignorant or does it just come naturally to you. If you mean living in a trailer and driving a 10 plus year old car an acceptable way of life……. well sounds like your kind of life style. Right to work states just make it easier for business’s to manipulate and take advantage of the labor force. The unions do justify themselves to the workers by offering collective bargaining, vacation, sick pay, overtime, job security and many other services. I have belonged to a union for over 20 years and have no idea what you are calling “sloganeering classes”. Just more right wing propaganda slinging.
April 3, 2011 - 11:38 am Link to this Comment
Oregonian	Gee, hammer, I would never have guessed that you were a 20-year union member from the positions you espouse! I think it was Abe Lincoln who said: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt!”
April 3, 2011 - 1:03 pm Link to this Comment
hammer1	And proud to be a union member at. When you right wing nuts figure out your fiscal policies don’t hold water and never have then you may have something to talk about, until then its more propaganda and fact spinning. I think I stayed at this crazy place long enough.
April 3, 2011 - 3:23 pm Link to this Comment
Bilgeman	” If you mean living in a trailer and driving a 10 plus year old car an acceptable way of life……. well sounds like your kind of life style.”
Sigh…this is why I left MY union after 20 years. This kind of rampant ignorance masquerading as wisdom was endemic among the dummies there.
You will of course note that “hammer1″ believes that there is no such thing as a stick-built house upon a concrete foundation in any R2W state.
And his idiotic bourgeois snobbery just oozes forth, in that he would apparently live in a dilapidated old slum or apartment block and take public transit than live in a spiffy new double-wide on his own land and drive a 10 year old car that he can also call his own. It’s really sad, when you think about it.
“Right to work states just make it easier for business’s to manipulate and take advantage of the labor force.”
Yeah-yeah…I heard it all before. The problem is that it’s bunk.
And here’s why. (I’m going to lay some more facts on you, so you;d better lower your cranial blast-shields).
In my particular industry, seafaring, the contracted companies are obligated to hire crews from the union hall, and the union has exclusivity of representation.
What this MEANS is that your boss,(be he Captain or Chief Engineer or Chief Steward), can fire you and then simply call the hall for your replacement.
Non-unionized shipping companies do not have that luxury. When they get rid of an employee,(for whatever reason), they must undertake to advertise, interview, evaluate and fill the open job all on their own.
This is an expense that they’d rather not undertake.
See, pollywog, the other difference is that in a union, workers are organized vertically…in hierarchies, but in an independent workplace, workers in an industry will self-organize laterally.
Everyone has a cell=phone and an e-mail, y’see…so if Shipping Company A is coughing up lovely day-rate and matching big percentage on the 401k
contributions while Company B does not, then guess what happens to Company B’s workforce?
They all migrate over to Company A, and Company B goes down the drain.
And the beauty of this system is that because of the much-maligned, (by the unions), 401k pension, the workers’ pensions are eminently portable, so they suffer no added penalty from ditching Company B…or the Amalgamated Brotherhood of Goldbricks.
But again, these are foreign concepts to you, aren’t they?
The Bottom Line is the bottom line, ace. and the simple fact is that I doubled my day-rate by leaving the union,(on a government contracted ship, no less), to sail with a non-union outfit.
Got that, binky? DOUBLED…go ask your business agent or your employer just how much of a bite the union is costing YOU…see what your take home would be without having to piece off these deadbeats and nepotistic know-nothings.
“The unions do justify themselves to the workers by offering collective bargaining, vacation, sick pay, overtime, job security and many other services.”
Oh yeah? Well when they don;t have the power to compel a worker top join and remain a member, they seem totally unable to sell their program, which is why they HATE Right To Work.
What you don’t seem to realize is that this isn’t 1955 anymore. Management has, broadly speaking, gotten smart…smarter than the dinosaurs in the AFL-CIO at any rate,(not that THAT’S saying much), but it’s enough to mean that private-sector trade unionism is effectively an anachronism.
April 3, 2011 - 8:01 pm Link to this Comment
hammer1	WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS AS USUAL.You can spin your BS here because everyone will believe you. Try the real world for once not some protected right wing site for once. you lose!
April 3, 2011 - 10:23 pm Link to this Comment
Bilgeman	hammer1
Well, it didn’t take very long at all to reduce you to “feces-flinging howling monkey status” did it?
I will agree with you on one thing…you HAVE spent quite enough time on PJM.
Maybe you should run along back to ,(non-unionized, tmk), Daily Kos or Arianna Online, (headquartered in the “Right To Work” Commonwealth of Virginia).
It’s manifestly evident that you ain’t got what it takes to hack it here.
April 4, 2011 - 6:52 am Link to this Comment
skip gainer	Hammer1 you must be in a manufacturing union, I myself from a trade union where you either produced or you were gone. The union gives you absolutely nothing. You pay the union quiet well. Hammer1 have you ever been to Washington DC and visit the AFL-CIO building, right across from the White House, it truly is worth seeing your dues money at work. I was a business agent for our local until I wittiness the corruption in the union first hand but they do spend your money quiet well first class all the way!
April 3, 2011 - 9:37 pm Link to this Comment
Akatsukami	Just wait until you cowardly thugs get the sound thrashing that you deserve at the polls.
April 3, 2011 - 3:16 pm Link to this Comment
skip gainer	It does not appear a college education is all that important. It surely did not help with obama`s education! Why did all those democRATS get voted out any way?
April 3, 2011 - 9:17 pm Link to this Comment
29. vet66	Bilge; I like the cut of your jib. The one thing the hyperbolic troll ‘Hammer’ does well is reach for the feces instead of facts. I was secretary treasurer for my local and witnessed first hand the demise of ethics and values at the hands of the union hierarchy. The reason for the business was to provide a service to the CUSTOMERS who actually spent money on the products produced. The union sublimated the CUSTOMERS to the insatiable appetite for money and power that became the primary business of the union. Not only did the union cancer attach itself to the host company but managed to infect the Customer as well eventually driving him off in search of a less corrosive party to do business with. Lose your jobs? Too bad, so sad. That is why unions are constantly trying to weasel their way into non-unionized companies who treat their employees and customers with respect, a devotion to quality and a constant drive to be cost effective and more efficient. Unions are true parasites when they inevitably overreach and kill the host when they attempt to run both companies on the backs of those they represent. The UAW is a recent example of an entitlement union. Add to that the thugs in the SEIU and well-named PEU’s who use extortion tactics against those who have the temerity to disagree or fail to knuckle under to their demands and you have anarchy. Reminds one of the slaves rowing galleys under the whips of their slave drivers. I don’t know what “hammer” thinks he is doing or how he thinks he earned that monikor. In the old childhood game of “Hammer, Rock, Paper” I recall that rock breaks scissors. I meet many so-called hammers these days. They are brave from afar but get close to them and they have a tendency to wet themselves in the presence of those who know how to engage them in a “chat”.
April 4, 2011 - 12:00 pm Link to this Comment
30. anti-neocon	Methings pajamasmedia needs a primer on constitutional law.
illusorytenant.blogspot.com/2011/03/wisconsin-ozanne-v-fitzgerald-preview.html
April 4, 2011 - 2:42 pm Link to this Comment
31. Stripbubbles	I know how “hammer” got his nickname.
April 4, 2011 - 5:03 pm Link to this Comment
32. Stripbubbles	Hammer is so brainwashed by the union politic. He has never really had to work and earn an honest buck for like twenty years. This guy thinks the world owns him a living. It’s time these “Hammers” got a wake up call. Americans are tired of paying you what you think you deserve. He probably isn’t even working. Bet he stays at home all day playing Texas Hold Em while his wife works. I have been lurking here for sometime and too scared to post but this guy really pisses me off. Stay on DKOS you dirty liberal hippy!
April 4, 2011 - 5:24 pm Link to this Comment
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