Source: http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=1693.msg12780
Timestamp: 2020-08-12 03:15:50
Document Index: 156378441

Matched Legal Cases: ['art 229', 'art 230', 'art 229', 'art 230', 'art 230', 'art 229', 'art 229', 'ART 229', 'art 231']

Author Topic: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.) (Read 30372 times)
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 12:23:10 PM »
No waiver needed. If the locomotive has one, it must be as per regulations.
Delaware & Hudson operated for years with no deadman feature on locomotives at speeds up to 60mph. Again, regulations only said that if engine was equipped, it must be working.
Sometimes, field FRA personnel like to expand rules to what they believe they say. But interpretations of rules is done by legal department of FRA in Washington.
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2012, 04:28:50 PM »
Allen, are you saying that a pilot is not required on Monson #3 or #4, regardless of where it operates??
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:30:57 PM by Cliff Olson »
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 04:34:33 PM »
Lots of locomotives have no pilots.
Attached is a photo of me taken many years ago (1991) at Three Bridges, NJ. Notice the loco has no pilot. Just a flat steel plate to keep junk from wedging under the locomotive.
Keith at Three Bridges 1991.jpg (64.19 kB, 618x480 - viewed 654 times.)
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 06:08:54 PM »
Part 229 says locomotives must have an end plate, pilot or plow. Part 230 says only that a steam locomotive must have a pilot, period. Neither Part defines the term "pilot." I've looked at photos of Monson No. 3, and what it has sure looks like it will meet the criteria.
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2012, 11:08:30 AM »
The Part 229 provision that Wayne mentions is 49 CFR sec. 229.123.
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2012, 11:18:18 AM »
Quote from: Wayne Laepple on February 08, 2012, 06:08:54 PM
Here is CFR 49 Part 230:
The way I read this is that pilots must be securely attached etc. but nowhere do I see a requirement that the locomotive must be equipped with one.
P.S. Here is a link to a photo of the Baldwin Locomotive Works plant switcher at Steamtown. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0106/blw26.jpg
Steamtown certainly comes under FRA pervue and the 26 not only has no pilot...it has footboards!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:00:26 PM by Keith Taylor »
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 12:04:36 PM »
After January 1, 1981, each lead locomotive
shall be equipped with an end
plate that extends across both rails, a
pilot, or a snowplow. The minimum
clearance above the rail of the pilot,
snowplow or end plate shall be 3 inches,
and the maximum clearance 6 inches
This says that it has to have one of the three. Remember, in dealing with the CFR 49, there is more than just the Part 230 that pertains to steam locomotives.
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2012, 12:49:28 PM »
Quote from: Brett Goertemoeller on February 09, 2012, 12:04:36 PM
That is not accurate. Here is the "scope" of CFR 49 Part 229 from the regulation. You can see that clearly CFR 49 part 229 covers all locomotives except steam.
[CITE: 49CFR229.1]
PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents
Sec. 229.1 Scope.
This part prescribes minimum Federal safety standards for all
locomotives except those propelled by steam power.
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2012, 01:54:45 PM »
All right, I invite you to read part 231.15, 231.16, and 231.17. I have a call into a friend of mine who can put this question to rest once and for all.....He's an FRA Steam inspector, and did the inspection on another locomotive I work on.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 02:40:20 PM by Ed Lecuyer »
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2012, 03:45:24 PM »
Quote from: Brett Goertemoeller on February 09, 2012, 01:54:45 PM
(a) Tender till-steps—(1) Number. Four on tender.
(b) Pilot sill-steps—(1) Number. Two.
(c) Pilot-beam handholds—(1) Number. Two.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, five-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Minimum clear length, 14, preferably 16, inches. Minimum clearance, 21/2 inches.
(3) Location. One on each end of buffer-beam. If uncoupling lever extends across front end of locomotive to within 8 inches of end of buffer-beam, and is seven-eighths of an inch or more in diameter, securely fastened, with a clearance of 21/2 inches, it is a handhold.)
(d) Side handholds—(1) Number. Six.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, if horizontal, five-eighths of an inch; if vertical, seven-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Horizontal, minimum clear length, 16 inches. Vertical, clear length equal to approximate height of tank. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2, inches.
(4) Manner of application. Side handholds shall be securely fastened with not less than 1/2-inch bolts or rivets.
(e) Rear-end handholds—(1) Number. Two.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, five-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Minimum clear length, 14 inches. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2, inches.
(4) Manner of application. Rear-end handholds shall be securely fastened with not less than 1/2-inch bolts or rivets.
(f) Uncoupling levers—(1) Number. Two double levers, operative from either side.
(a) Footboards—(1) Number. Two or more.
(iv) If made of wood, minimum thickness of tread shall be 11/2, preferably 2 inches.
(v) Footboards may be made of material other than wood which provides the same as or a greater degree of safety than wood of 11/2 inches thickness. When made of material other than wood, the tread surface shall be of antiskid design and constructed with sufficient open space to permit the elimination of snow and ice from the tread surface.
(b) Sill steps—(1) Number. Two or more.
(c) End handholds—(1) Number. Two.
(d) Side handholds—(1) Number. Four.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, seven-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Clear length equal to approximate height of tank. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2 inches.
(e) Uncoupling levers—(1) Number. Two double levers, operative from either side.
(b) Running boards—(1) Number. Two.
(2) Dimensions. Not less than 10 inches wide. If of wood, not less than 11/2 inches in thickness; if of metal, not less than three-sixteenths of an inch, properly supported.
(c) Handrails—(1) Number. Two or more.
I may be missing something....but I don't see one word about requiring a pilot. I do see in 231.16 that switching locomotives have regulations for foot boards.
All of these sections can be read at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/49cfr231_98.html
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 03:59:39 PM by Keith Taylor »
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2012, 04:10:50 PM »
Okay, guys, I think the horse is dead.
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2012, 04:25:45 PM »
1. I moved this topic to General Discussion, as it really has morphed into a conversation about FRA rules.
2. For whatever reason, this topic seems to be raising some angst among its participants. I think the reality is that unless someone from MNG wants to disclose their intent, or discussions with the local FRA representative, it's all a moot point.
3. I would imagine that any backdating to #4 is pretty low on the funding list for MNG. After all, there are many more substantial repairs that need to be made - and #7 is still under restoration. Oh, and I think they may be moving....
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2012, 05:41:22 PM »
I can't imagine that removing the fake cowcatcher would involve any significant expense - - if a pilot is not required for operation under FRA jurisdiction, which is what we have been trying to discern from the FRA regs.
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2012, 06:56:22 PM »
Here's photo of Monson No. 3 with its as-built pilot, as well as a photo of a British locomotive with no pilot at all. Notice the difference.
monsonthreefront.jpg (27.17 kB, 225x308 - viewed 562 times.)
images.jpeg (10.96 kB, 266x189 - viewed 1018 times.)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:58:32 PM by Wayne Laepple »
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2012, 07:37:56 PM »
IMHO there is one way to get this question answered once and for all. Contact Gary Fairbanks at FRA in Washington, DC. He's one of the leading authorities on steam at the FRA, has both worked on and licensed engineer on steam. Been doing it for over 30 years.