Source: http://humjanege.blogspot.in/2011_06_26_archive.html
Timestamp: 2017-04-29 09:29:53
Document Index: 755273998

Matched Legal Cases: ['Art 12', 'Art. 12', 'Art 12', 'Art. 12', 'Art 12', 'Art. 12']

Hum Janenge: 6/26/11 - 7/3/11
Re: [HumJanenge] Let's demand some 'account of the money' that banks are forced to spend on ill-conceived giveaways like MGNREGA.
RTI is there.But govy.is yet to develop adequate infrastrucure to produce all the required documents n demend.particularly,the state of West bengal is lagging far behind.the various departments of bengal are yet to devise their website too. In this regard,we are also at the backfoot.hence,nothing to sat for and against your demend. On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:23:22 +0530 wrote >Friends, Isn't time we demand some 'account of the money' that banks are forced to spend on ill-conceived giveaways like MGNREGA. Unfortunately it's not a one time affair - mushrooming ideas before each poll....! Added to this States likeTamil Nadu embarking on such vote catching gimmics and coming to centre for help financing such schemes ...! Let there be a debate - right now. How RTI could take advantage- guidance needed. Regards -- SHS === Treat yourself at a restaurant, spa, resort and much more with Rediff Deal ho jaye!
[HumJanenge] CIC: New Allocation Orders.
In a new move "Chief Information Commissioner has decided to adopt rotation policy, wherein a Public Authority/Department/Ministry completing 2 years of its allocation with an IC would be considered for reallocation."Check link for full draft of the orderhttp://cic.gov.in/CIC_Circulars/Circular-30062011.pdfWishesManoj
Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill
Dear Mr. Gupta, My mail is only views of mine & not directions to anyone. Regards, WEDS From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.comCc: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>Sent: Saturday, 2 July 2011, 19:56Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill The referendum for multi-member Lok Pal is not practical in the vast country like india with crores of voters. There are many other ways to select suitable incumbent and the one option has been given by the members of civil society in their draft. On Sat, 2/7/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal billTo: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Cc: "DSouza Wilberious Evanglist" <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>Date: Saturday, 2 July, 2011, 7:09 PM Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, Thanks for immediate response – You accuse me that I have become emotional and my reasoning has become blunt. After reading your reply I readily accept your accusation! You say your are not in the age group to recline in armchair – It is good that you are young and energetic. Indian Constitution provides universal adult franchise. Every Indian has a fundamental right to contest any election and nobody can prevent him. I am not aware that our Constitution and Election laws have a provision for a referendum. If so, it has never been used since Independence . If you want a referendum for a constitutional authority like Commissioner of People - Lokpal, then why not for all other constitutional authorities like CVC – Chief Vigilance Commissioner, CEC – Chief Election Commissioner, CAG – Comptroller and Auditor General, Chief Justice of Supreme Court etc? On your required qualification for the candidate for Lokpal, I do not find the words, Integrity & Honesty, you only want him to be "Person should be erudite in law & constitution" You say "Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet / newspapers" – Today also the profile of all candidates contesting any election is made public by news papers – Has it in any way helped in electing an honest & deserving person? Tomorrow also the same thing will happen. You say "He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless." (I have great aversion to the word "shall"). If I am not mistaken, this is the basic requirement of each and every elected representative and bureaucrat. Has it happened? And will it happen in India ? Are you suggesting a "screening process" for candidates for this referendum? Who will do this screening? (you are back to square one). Under which constitutional provision, can you prevent a dishonest person from contesting this referendum? I am very happy you are placing great faith in Indian population to approve proper person when it comes to referendum. If this is true, one wonders why they have not rejected even a single dishonest, corrupt and known criminal (even contesting from jail!) and elected an honest and capable person. Your quotation "ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!" is very apt. I am not sure whether Anna Hazare's stringent Jan Lokpal law will create a Prabhu of Praja in my humble opinion your this referendum will definitely create one. You talk about "accountability" – even today every body is accountable – Prime Minister, Cabinet, Ministers, MP's, MLS's all elected representatives are accountable. Is it working? How suddenly will it change with new elected Lokpal? As I don't know Urdu, I am just unable to appreciate your quotes. Our Hindu Sanathana Dharam admonishes "SATYAM VADA" (tell only truth), "DHARMAM CHARA" (follow the dharma), and I am sure all other religions including Christianity may have such admonitions. Has it happened in last 5000+ years? They have not been able to instill "fear of GOD" in even a single person. I can comment on many other points raised, but I will stop here. Having said all, in the final analysis, I would only request, allow Anna Hazary to draft his bill. Mr Veerappa Moili will introduce a watered down weak Lokpal bill in the Parliament. Let us hope at least it will remove some bottle necks in the existing Legislation and some more corrupt people will get prosecuted and they are awarded exemplary punishment expeditiously. Which I hope will instill some fear in people not to be corrupt. As I already mentioned "Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to change - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!!" Warn regards / mathre rangarajan From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 5:22 PMSubject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Rangarajan, There is an old saying that "when one becomes emotional reasoning becomes blunt" My e-mail message did not connote what you have interpreted. I shall reproduce wht I had proposed earlier. That will clarify. I am not in that age group when I have to recline in armchair. Please read the following which were my propositions. It is time, people of India chose a Commissioner of People (LokPal) by themselves. Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet newspapers. Person should be erudite in law & constitution as this person will make President, Governors all states, CJIs of Supreme Court of India & all High Courts accountable to People of India with he or she by himself or herself accountable to People of India. About 4 years ago I had suggested to then Election Commissioner Navin Chawla of issuing smart card ids to all citizens of India eligible to vote & using by suitable interfacing with ATM networks all over the country, to be coordinated by National Informatics Centre of Government of India so that entire nation votes for assembly & Parliament election simultaneously on a single day, with results out on the very next day. No reply has been received yet. This would save billions of Rupees to nation. Nandan Nilekani headed UID project is least heard nowadays. Similar means can be adapted for referendum for election of Lokpal as he/she will not be obliged to any executive of this country (executive having the same connotation as found in Art 12 of The Constitution of India). He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless. Accountability to People of India should exist otherwise it would be a paradox of when one becomes Prabhu of Praja, he/she ceases to be Praja for ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY! Similar process should have been adopted in appointment of CICs & SICs as well as State Lokayuktas. We would not have had unskilled workers quarrelling with tools. Nor failed dentists or Tehsildars being elevated to SICs E.g. Dr H.N.Krishna SIC Karnataka. Or Do as I say but Don't Do What I Do Lokayukta of Karnataka Justice K.S.Hegde! Only when Lok Pal is elected by referendum he/she will act freely fearlessly & independently with accountability to people. If alternatively he/ she is nominated by the executive of State (as per Art. 12 of Constitution of India) he/she will be enslaved to executive. If you appoint me to a post where I have to function freely fearlessly & independently, I cannot ignore the fact that you had appointed me. There are THREE sayings in Urdu. 1. DOODH KA DHULA HUA KOI NAHIN. 2. JAMBOORIYAT WOH TARZ E HUKUMAT HAI JISMEIN INSAAN KO GINA JAATAA HAI MAGAR TOALAA NAHIN JAATAA. 3. EK HI ULLU KAAPHI THA BARBAAD GULISTAAN KARNE KO; IDHAR HAR SHAAKH PE ULLU BHAITHA HAI ANJAAM E GULISTAAN KYA HOGA. Please note that in my suggestion Lok Pal will be accountable to public. all proceedings of cases should be made available on website of LokPal. Lok Pal before being eklected will address the nation in different state languages on TV. this address with his complete profile should be available on Government of India official website. He or she should declare assets & liabilities & last income-tax return should be availble on website. these should be published on every nrewspapers of all vernacular languages, by all newspapers free of charge to state. Regards, WEDS From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011, 9:05Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, My two-bit for whatever it is worth. In the first para your are advocating another parallel body to Government to be elected directly by the people - Firstly, presently, only currupt are gettting elected, so where is the gauretee that the newly elected Lokpal will be honest? Secndly, no where in the world we have two parallel directly elected bodies one to oversee the other. Dont you think this propostorous idea rediculas!! Secondly - you are telling that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government - All he asked for is a strong Lokpal Bill - It is your so called elected Government, which gave him the powers to draft the bill with his cronies (as you have put it). A frail old man without any formal organisation under him is trying to run a parallel Government is, again just rediculas. What are you affraid of!! Thirdly you say that they and every body else should go to the grass root level and ask people to write to their MPs, who in turn should take up in the Parleament. Today every MP from the day he is elected, just forgets his consitituents, I have not heard of a single MP listning to people (in the real sense). If you think MPs and Parleament will do something - then why the same elected Parleament has not considered the Lokpal bill presented to it (in whatever the form) for the past 60 years since Indipendence!! Will this happen now? Forget it! I think you are living in a Utopian world and your arm-chair thinking has no practical value. What Anna Hazary and his cronis are asking may be propostorous. Ultimately it is upto our law minister Sri Veerappa Moili to introduce the bill in the Parleament and for your elected Parleament to pass it. Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to chage - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!! From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 7:24 AMSubject: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Hazare, While I do concede that corruption is rampant in our country & it has become a canker worm. An authority such as LokPal elected directly by people of India is essential who will surveil President , Governors of States, Prime Minister, Council of Ministers, Chief Ministers of States, Parliamentarians, Chief Justice of India, Chief Justices of all state High Courts & is accountable to the people. However, Anna Hazare or his associates or Ramdev are not representatives of People. In democracy after an elected government is installed, people can represent via the elected MPs from each constituency about any issue & if majority of people do so, the elected government is bound to implement their wishes. Anna Hazare, his other associates & Ramdev do not have mandate of people. Hence, Kapil Sibbal's ironic it may appear, remark that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government is right. So also is the ouster of Ramdev & his supporters from Ramlila grounds. So, as the cause Anna Hazare has espoused is very relevant what he and his associates should do is to travel to the length & breadth of India, convince people to sign a memorandum insisting for installation of Lok Pal, amend constitution therefor, submit that memorandum via the MPs of various constituencies in our country against valid acknowledgement & undertaking to submit it to Parliament of India for deliberation. If there is a democratic majority, the elected government is bound to enact Lok Pal bill in the manner people choose. It is undemocratic to fast unto death, shouting slogans, holding processions etc. These do not have mandate of people & mandate of People very essential which that only an elected government has. So however, relevant the cause Anna Hazare & others have espoused & the manner in which it is being furthered becomes subversion of democracy as they do not have mandate of people & their acts a breach of public peace. Regards, WEDS
Dear Rangarajan, I am happy that youn are aaware of reality which even I am. I am also aware that there is no provision in the Constitution of india for accountability to any of the Constitutional authority which is why the situation is what it has been, is & ever shall be. You are aware that Parliament has constituent power where by itcan amend the Constitution. I know what I suggested is & will be wishful thinking. Most of the remarks that you have expressed have their answers in my dispensation. I expressed what should be ideal in a democracy. I know it may not be a reality for 75% of Indian population subsists by earning just Rs. 25 per day. Another 10% is so rich for whom corruption or otherwise has no relevance! Another 10^ is in professional pusuits. In the balance, a small percentage of person just as you & i may express our views just as those who singly can do nothing & together can decide nothing can be done. Further percentage of voting since independence in our country as national average has not exceeded about 15%. As regards, Religion, please note I am atheist. Read the following write up by me very attentively. -BLIND BELIEF-DOES GOD EXIST??????!!!!! Please ponder over these very rational statements. Most amongst the human beings believe that God exists. For some it is either Brahma, Vishnu or Maheshwar or one of the 399 Gods & Goddesses or scores of spirits & ghosts, For some, it is Jesus Christ, For some it is Allah, For some it is Buddha, For some it is any of Jain Tirtankars, For some any of the Gurus of Sikhism so on & so forth. We quarrel amongst ourselves that we are Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, etc., but, has any God or Goddess revealed himself or herself to any one of us to either endorse our quarrel or decry it? Answer is an emphatic NO! Does any one who dies, return to tell tale about? Answer also is an emphatic NO! Is SWARG or NARAK, JANNAT or JEHANNUM, HEAVEN or HELL a large celestial world? If YES, how much of it is under control of any of these; BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESHWAR & 399 GODS & GODDESSES OR ALLAH, JESUS CHRIST, BUDDHA ETC., so on & so forth? There is no answer! If one or some change ones or their faith, which Swarg or Narak, Jannat or Jehnnum, Heaven or Hell that one or those reach? None knows the answer! Do these Gods & Goddesses retain accounting books with them so that those who forsake a faith shall be a debit entry in the forsaken God/Goddess's book and credit entry in embraced God/Goddess's book? None knows the answer! If these Gods/Goddesses are OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPERVADING do they need Temples, Mosques, Churches, Basadis, Gompas, Gurudwaras? Answer obviously is an emphatic NO! If these Gods/Goddesses exist, why Allah did not prevent demolition of Babri Mosque; why did Brahm, Vishnu, Maheswar & other 399 Gods & Goddesses did not prevent the demolition of scores of temples in India & outside after demolition of Babri Mosque? Likewise, why Jesus Christ did not prevent demolition of churches in history? So much so, the Jain Sikh & Buddhist Gods prevent the demolition of the respective places of worships whenever they occurred in the history? E.g. Jain temples in Southern India & Buddhist temples in Northern India WERE converted to Hindu temples in the late second century A.D. when Hinduism usurped trampling Jainism & Buddhism in India? Any answers? Obviously NO! Is there any evidence of war or quarrel amongst or conquest of any of the Gods & Goddesses by the other? Answer is obviously NO! Followers of various faiths quarrel among themselves & one another without any interference from any of the Gods. Just as in the case of political parties, party leaders do not quarrel but, party workers quarrel for the leaders sustain injuries & losses. What a paradox! Any reasons? Answer is yet again an emphatic NO! Religions are being used just as political parties trying to create vote bank, by Swamis, Mullah's & others, Priests or numerous Godmen & Godwomen prompting their followers to quarrel for them. Why Gods & Goddesses exist only for Human Beings & not for reptiles, birds & Animals? Any answers? Obviously NO! In Punarjanm or Reincarnation, cow is one form of Punarjanm. Visualise a Hindu, A Muslim, a Christian, a Sikh, A Jain, A Buddhist, so on & so forth having a cow each and if these sell their cows amongst themselves; does the cow sold relinquishes worship of God/Goddess of its earlier master/mistress & begin to worship God/Goddess of its new master/mistress? Any answers? Obviously NO! Which of the Gods/Goddesses the scores of birds, reptiles, animals in jungle worship? Any answers? Obviously NO! Human beings in the world speak scores of languages. Why these Gods/Goddesses standardize the languages spoken by their adorers? Any answers? Obviously NO! Sun shines evenly without discrimination upon a Hindu (any sect) Christian (any denomination) Muslim( any denomination) so on & so forth. So does when it rains! A cat mews identically in a house of a Hindu (any sect) Christian (any denomination) Muslim ( any denomination) so on & so forth! A cow yields milk & milk alone regardless whether it is in the house of a Hindu (any sect) Christian ( any denomination) Muslim( any denomination) so on & so forth! So does a dog or any other mammal that is reared! Every Purohit or Bhat, or a priest or mullah or Sant avers that God always tests a devotee by giving him or her testing times & travails to ensure that he/she is steadfast in his/her devotion and also those who undergo travails & tribulations are ensured happiness in the other world; whereas, to bring the wrongdoer into God's fold God is extra benevolent to him/her! What a paradoxical justice! What is it anyway; nothing but HUMBUG! Every faith propagates that the human beings were created by the creator, The God! In that case why the Gods created Human speaking different languages, different races, skin colour etc.? Why the Gods created Humans with uneven distribution of wealth, intellect & ability? Are so named or called Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Christians, Buddhists etc., so on & so forth, denote or connote different ethnic or groups? Answer obviously is No! These are only groups owing allegiance to different schools of thought! Just as political parties! All Gods or Goddesses may at best historical personalities or creation of fertile imagination & nothing else! So, it is futile to build places of worship, e.g. TEMPLES, MOSQUES, CHURCHES, GURUDWARAS, JAIN & BUDDISTS TEMPLES so on & so forth & waste resources in propitiation, votive offerings etc., All those God-men, God-women, priests, swamis, mullahs etc. exist by profession; only a CRAFT to earn one's livelihood! Just as Sanskrit saying; UDHARA BHARANUM; BAHUKRITA VESHAM! Further, every religion claims that all humans have a soul but, birds, animals, reptiles etc., have none! What a partisan dispensation by the God!!!??? "I helped give birth to three children with the human cloning technique, known as genetic recoding. It involved two boys and a girl who are nine years old today. They were born healthy and they are in excellent health now." said Severino Antinori, a prominent gynaecologist, to Oggi, an Italian weekly in an interview that appeared on Wednesday, the 4th of February 2009. Do these two boys & one girl who were created by Severino Antinori have souls???!!! Any answers???!!! In India, recent statistics indicate that about 76% of Indian population subsists by earning just Rs. 25 a day. This population also worships different Gods/Goddesses, align themselves to varied faiths, pray, offer votives, pay obeisance! Alas! None of the Gods/Goddesses have alleviated them from this morass or predicament! So why waste time & spend hard earned money in these futile exercises? India, our motherland is so diverse, linguistically, ethnically and anthropologically with over 4000 languages about over 1600 religious practices and equally large ethnic origins; it can be equated to an extremely large, massively grown tree; in the boughs & branches immigrant birds from far and wide, genetically & specieally very diverse, have perched and built their nests laid eggs in them, incubated them into fledglings which became fully fledged to further the genus. This tree, the mother India has sheltered them and offered them a habitat & continue to do so without any discrimination on genus & specie! Hence, no specie of any genus can claim proprietary right on this tree! Those countrymen & women who on the basis of religion & God, spread hatred, strife, riots, vandalism, loot, unrest, massacre, bloodshed, lawlessness, anarchy, economic halt, shredding human fibre to pieces that cannot be rewoven into a fabric, are responsible for the tears those are shed from the eyes of hapless kith & kins of those who lose their parents, siblings, bread earners with gloom staring in their eyes! Let them think for a while & visualize what would have been their plight had they encountered similar predicament! So, in conclusion, none of the human beings have any choice when they are born; let human beings live as human beings respecting others right to exist, live, pursue a profession, earn livelihood by fair & equitable means, so long as such a behaviour does not cause any harm, injury, loss or consternation to others, coexisting in this world as human beings, in perfect symbiosis. Regards, WEDS From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Cc: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>Sent: Saturday, 2 July 2011, 19:09Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, Thanks for immediate response – You accuse me that I have become emotional and my reasoning has become blunt. After reading your reply I readily accept your accusation! You say your are not in the age group to recline in armchair – It is good that you are young and energetic. Indian Constitution provides universal adult franchise. Every Indian has a fundamental right to contest any election and nobody can prevent him. I am not aware that our Constitution and Election laws have a provision for a referendum. If so, it has never been used since Independence . If you want a referendum for a constitutional authority like Commissioner of People - Lokpal, then why not for all other constitutional authorities like CVC – Chief Vigilance Commissioner, CEC – Chief Election Commissioner, CAG – Comptroller and Auditor General, Chief Justice of Supreme Court etc? On your required qualification for the candidate for Lokpal, I do not find the words, Integrity & Honesty, you only want him to be "Person should be erudite in law & constitution" You say "Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet / newspapers" – Today also the profile of all candidates contesting any election is made public by news papers – Has it in any way helped in electing an honest & deserving person? Tomorrow also the same thing will happen. You say "He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless." (I have great aversion to the word "shall"). If I am not mistaken, this is the basic requirement of each and every elected representative and bureaucrat. Has it happened? And will it happen in India ? Are you suggesting a "screening process" for candidates for this referendum? Who will do this screening? (you are back to square one). Under which constitutional provision, can you prevent a dishonest person from contesting this referendum? I am very happy you are placing great faith in Indian population to approve proper person when it comes to referendum. If this is true, one wonders why they have not rejected even a single dishonest, corrupt and known criminal (even contesting from jail!) and elected an honest and capable person. Your quotation "ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!" is very apt. I am not sure whether Anna Hazare's stringent Jan Lokpal law will create a Prabhu of Praja in my humble opinion your this referendum will definitely create one. You talk about "accountability" – even today every body is accountable – Prime Minister, Cabinet, Ministers, MP's, MLS's all elected representatives are accountable. Is it working? How suddenly will it change with new elected Lokpal? As I don't know Urdu, I am just unable to appreciate your quotes. Our Hindu Sanathana Dharam admonishes "SATYAM VADA" (tell only truth), "DHARMAM CHARA" (follow the dharma), and I am sure all other religions including Christianity may have such admonitions. Has it happened in last 5000+ years? They have not been able to instill "fear of GOD" in even a single person. I can comment on many other points raised, but I will stop here. Having said all, in the final analysis, I would only request, allow Anna Hazary to draft his bill. Mr Veerappa Moili will introduce a watered down weak Lokpal bill in the Parliament. Let us hope at least it will remove some bottle necks in the existing Legislation and some more corrupt people will get prosecuted and they are awarded exemplary punishment expeditiously. Which I hope will instill some fear in people not to be corrupt. As I already mentioned "Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to change - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!!" Warn regards / mathre rangarajan From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 5:22 PMSubject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Rangarajan, There is an old saying that "when one becomes emotional reasoning becomes blunt" My e-mail message did not connote what you have interpreted. I shall reproduce wht I had proposed earlier. That will clarify. I am not in that age group when I have to recline in armchair. Please read the following which were my propositions. It is time, people of India chose a Commissioner of People (LokPal) by themselves. Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet newspapers. Person should be erudite in law & constitution as this person will make President, Governors all states, CJIs of Supreme Court of India & all High Courts accountable to People of India with he or she by himself or herself accountable to People of India. About 4 years ago I had suggested to then Election Commissioner Navin Chawla of issuing smart card ids to all citizens of India eligible to vote & using by suitable interfacing with ATM networks all over the country, to be coordinated by National Informatics Centre of Government of India so that entire nation votes for assembly & Parliament election simultaneously on a single day, with results out on the very next day. No reply has been received yet. This would save billions of Rupees to nation. Nandan Nilekani headed UID project is least heard nowadays. Similar means can be adapted for referendum for election of Lokpal as he/she will not be obliged to any executive of this country (executive having the same connotation as found in Art 12 of The Constitution of India). He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless. Accountability to People of India should exist otherwise it would be a paradox of when one becomes Prabhu of Praja, he/she ceases to be Praja for ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY! Similar process should have been adopted in appointment of CICs & SICs as well as State Lokayuktas. We would not have had unskilled workers quarrelling with tools. Nor failed dentists or Tehsildars being elevated to SICs E.g. Dr H.N.Krishna SIC Karnataka. Or Do as I say but Don't Do What I Do Lokayukta of Karnataka Justice K.S.Hegde! Only when Lok Pal is elected by referendum he/she will act freely fearlessly & independently with accountability to people. If alternatively he/ she is nominated by the executive of State (as per Art. 12 of Constitution of India) he/she will be enslaved to executive. If you appoint me to a post where I have to function freely fearlessly & independently, I cannot ignore the fact that you had appointed me. There are THREE sayings in Urdu. 1. DOODH KA DHULA HUA KOI NAHIN. 2. JAMBOORIYAT WOH TARZ E HUKUMAT HAI JISMEIN INSAAN KO GINA JAATAA HAI MAGAR TOALAA NAHIN JAATAA. 3. EK HI ULLU KAAPHI THA BARBAAD GULISTAAN KARNE KO; IDHAR HAR SHAAKH PE ULLU BHAITHA HAI ANJAAM E GULISTAAN KYA HOGA. Please note that in my suggestion Lok Pal will be accountable to public. all proceedings of cases should be made available on website of LokPal. Lok Pal before being eklected will address the nation in different state languages on TV. this address with his complete profile should be available on Government of India official website. He or she should declare assets & liabilities & last income-tax return should be availble on website. these should be published on every nrewspapers of all vernacular languages, by all newspapers free of charge to state. Regards, WEDS From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011, 9:05Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, My two-bit for whatever it is worth. In the first para your are advocating another parallel body to Government to be elected directly by the people - Firstly, presently, only currupt are gettting elected, so where is the gauretee that the newly elected Lokpal will be honest? Secndly, no where in the world we have two parallel directly elected bodies one to oversee the other. Dont you think this propostorous idea rediculas!! Secondly - you are telling that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government - All he asked for is a strong Lokpal Bill - It is your so called elected Government, which gave him the powers to draft the bill with his cronies (as you have put it). A frail old man without any formal organisation under him is trying to run a parallel Government is, again just rediculas. What are you affraid of!! Thirdly you say that they and every body else should go to the grass root level and ask people to write to their MPs, who in turn should take up in the Parleament. Today every MP from the day he is elected, just forgets his consitituents, I have not heard of a single MP listning to people (in the real sense). If you think MPs and Parleament will do something - then why the same elected Parleament has not considered the Lokpal bill presented to it (in whatever the form) for the past 60 years since Indipendence!! Will this happen now? Forget it! I think you are living in a Utopian world and your arm-chair thinking has no practical value. What Anna Hazary and his cronis are asking may be propostorous. Ultimately it is upto our law minister Sri Veerappa Moili to introduce the bill in the Parleament and for your elected Parleament to pass it. Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to chage - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!! From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 7:24 AMSubject: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Hazare, While I do concede that corruption is rampant in our country & it has become a canker worm. An authority such as LokPal elected directly by people of India is essential who will surveil President , Governors of States, Prime Minister, Council of Ministers, Chief Ministers of States, Parliamentarians, Chief Justice of India, Chief Justices of all state High Courts & is accountable to the people. However, Anna Hazare or his associates or Ramdev are not representatives of People. In democracy after an elected government is installed, people can represent via the elected MPs from each constituency about any issue & if majority of people do so, the elected government is bound to implement their wishes. Anna Hazare, his other associates & Ramdev do not have mandate of people. Hence, Kapil Sibbal's ironic it may appear, remark that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government is right. So also is the ouster of Ramdev & his supporters from Ramlila grounds. So, as the cause Anna Hazare has espoused is very relevant what he and his associates should do is to travel to the length & breadth of India, convince people to sign a memorandum insisting for installation of Lok Pal, amend constitution therefor, submit that memorandum via the MPs of various constituencies in our country against valid acknowledgement & undertaking to submit it to Parliament of India for deliberation. If there is a democratic majority, the elected government is bound to enact Lok Pal bill in the manner people choose. It is undemocratic to fast unto death, shouting slogans, holding processions etc. These do not have mandate of people & mandate of People very essential which that only an elected government has. So however, relevant the cause Anna Hazare & others have espoused & the manner in which it is being furthered becomes subversion of democracy as they do not have mandate of people & their acts a breach of public peace. Regards, WEDS
The referendum for multi-member Lok Pal is not practical in the vast country like india with crores of voters. There are many other ways to select suitable incumbent and the one option has been given by the members of civil society in their draft. On Sat, 2/7/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com> wrote:From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal billTo: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Cc: "DSouza Wilberious Evanglist" <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>Date: Saturday, 2 July, 2011, 7:09 PM Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, Thanks for immediate response – You accuse me that I have become emotional and my reasoning has become blunt. After reading your reply I readily accept your accusation! You say your are not in the age group to recline in armchair – It is good that you are young and energetic. Indian Constitution provides universal adult franchise. Every Indian has a fundamental right to contest any election and nobody can prevent him. I am not aware that our Constitution and Election laws have a provision for a referendum. If so, it has never been used since Independence . If you want a referendum for a constitutional authority like Commissioner of People - Lokpal, then why not for all other constitutional authorities like CVC – Chief Vigilance Commissioner, CEC – Chief Election Commissioner, CAG – Comptroller and Auditor General, Chief Justice of Supreme Court etc? On your required qualification for the candidate for Lokpal, I do not find the words, Integrity & Honesty, you only want him to be "Person should be erudite in law & constitution" You say "Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet / newspapers" – Today also the profile of all candidates contesting any election is made public by news papers – Has it in any way helped in electing an honest & deserving person? Tomorrow also the same thing will happen. You say "He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless." (I have great aversion to the word "shall"). If I am not mistaken, this is the basic requirement of each and every elected representative and bureaucrat. Has it happened? And will it happen in India ? Are you suggesting a "screening process" for candidates for this referendum? Who will do this screening? (you are back to square one). Under which constitutional provision, can you prevent a dishonest person from contesting this referendum? I am very happy you are placing great faith in Indian population to approve proper person when it comes to referendum. If this is true, one wonders why they have not rejected even a single dishonest, corrupt and known criminal (even contesting from jail!) and elected an honest and capable person. Your quotation "ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!" is very apt. I am not sure whether Anna Hazare's stringent Jan Lokpal law will create a Prabhu of Praja in my humble opinion your this referendum will definitely create one. You talk about "accountability" – even today every body is accountable – Prime Minister, Cabinet, Ministers, MP's, MLS's all elected representatives are accountable. Is it working? How suddenly will it change with new elected Lokpal? As I don't know Urdu, I am just unable to appreciate your quotes. Our Hindu Sanathana Dharam admonishes "SATYAM VADA" (tell only truth), "DHARMAM CHARA" (follow the dharma), and I am sure all other religions including Christianity may have such admonitions. Has it happened in last 5000+ years? They have not been able to instill "fear of GOD" in even a single person. I can comment on many other points raised, but I will stop here. Having said all, in the final analysis, I would only request, allow Anna Hazary to draft his bill. Mr Veerappa Moili will introduce a watered down weak Lokpal bill in the Parliament. Let us hope at least it will remove some bottle necks in the existing Legislation and some more corrupt people will get prosecuted and they are awarded exemplary punishment expeditiously. Which I hope will instill some fear in people not to be corrupt. As I already mentioned "Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to change - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!!" Warn regards / mathre rangarajanFrom: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 5:22 PMSubject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal billDear Rangarajan, There is an old saying that "when one becomes emotional reasoning becomes blunt" My e-mail message did not connote what you have interpreted. I shall reproduce wht I had proposed earlier. That will clarify. I am not in that age group when I have to recline in armchair. Please read the following which were my propositions. It is time, people of India chose a Commissioner of People (LokPal) by themselves. Profile of the candidate should be made public on internet newspapers. Person should be erudite in law & constitution as this person will make President, Governors all states, CJIs of Supreme Court of India & all High Courts accountable to People of India with he or she by himself or herself accountable to People of India. About 4 years ago I had suggested to then Election Commissioner Navin Chawla of issuing smart card ids to all citizens of India eligible to vote & using by suitable interfacing with ATM networks all over the country, to be coordinated by National Informatics Centre of Government of India so that entire nation votes for assembly & Parliament election simultaneously on a single day, with results out on the very next day. No reply has been received yet. This would save billions of Rupees to nation. Nandan Nilekani headed UID project is least heard nowadays. Similar means can be adapted for referendum for election of Lokpal as he/she will not be obliged to any executive of this country (executive having the same connotation as found in Art 12 of The Constitution of India). He/she shall be a true Commissioner/ess of The People of India, free, fair, equitable & fearless. Accountability to People of India should exist otherwise it would be a paradox of when one becomes Prabhu of Praja, he/she ceases to be Praja for ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY! Similar process should have been adopted in appointment of CICs & SICs as well as State Lokayuktas. We would not have had unskilled workers quarrelling with tools. Nor failed dentists or Tehsildars being elevated to SICs E.g. Dr H.N.Krishna SIC Karnataka. Or Do as I say but Don't Do What I Do Lokayukta of Karnataka Justice K.S.Hegde! Only when Lok Pal is elected by referendum he/she will act freely fearlessly & independently with accountability to people. If alternatively he/ she is nominated by the executive of State (as per Art. 12 of Constitution of India) he/she will be enslaved to executive. If you appoint me to a post where I have to function freely fearlessly & independently, I cannot ignore the fact that you had appointed me. There are THREE sayings in Urdu. 1. DOODH KA DHULA HUA KOI NAHIN. 2. JAMBOORIYAT WOH TARZ E HUKUMAT HAI JISMEIN INSAAN KO GINA JAATAA HAI MAGAR TOALAA NAHIN JAATAA. 3. EK HI ULLU KAAPHI THA BARBAAD GULISTAAN KARNE KO; IDHAR HAR SHAAKH PE ULLU BHAITHA HAI ANJAAM E GULISTAAN KYA HOGA. Please note that in my suggestion Lok Pal will be accountable to public. all proceedings of cases should be made available on website of LokPal. Lok Pal before being eklected will address the nation in different state languages on TV. this address with his complete profile should be available on Government of India official website. He or she should declare assets & liabilities & last income-tax return should be availble on website. these should be published on every nrewspapers of all vernacular languages, by all newspapers free of charge to state. Regards, WEDS From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>To: "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011, 9:05Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Mr DSouza Wilberious Evanglist, My two-bit for whatever it is worth. In the first para your are advocating another parallel body to Government to be elected directly by the people - Firstly, presently, only currupt are gettting elected, so where is the gauretee that the newly elected Lokpal will be honest? Secndly, no where in the world we have two parallel directly elected bodies one to oversee the other. Dont you think this propostorous idea rediculas!! Secondly - you are telling that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government - All he asked for is a strong Lokpal Bill - It is your so called elected Government, which gave him the powers to draft the bill with his cronies (as you have put it). A frail old man without any formal organisation under him is trying to run a parallel Government is, again just rediculas. What are you affraid of!! Thirdly you say that they and every body else should go to the grass root level and ask people to write to their MPs, who in turn should take up in the Parleament. Today every MP from the day he is elected, just forgets his consitituents, I have not heard of a single MP listning to people (in the real sense). If you think MPs and Parleament will do something - then why the same elected Parleament has not considered the Lokpal bill presented to it (in whatever the form) for the past 60 years since Indipendence!! Will this happen now? Forget it! I think you are living in a Utopian world and your arm-chair thinking has no practical value. What Anna Hazary and his cronis are asking may be propostorous. Ultimately it is upto our law minister Sri Veerappa Moili to introduce the bill in the Parleament and for your elected Parleament to pass it. Even if Anna Hazare resumes his fast and dies - nothing is going to chage - All we may do is erect a statue of him like we have done for the so called Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi!!! From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>To: "info@annahazare.org" <info@annahazare.org>; "annahazare1@gmail.com" <annahazare1@gmail.com>; "bvjralegan@gmail.com" <bvjralegan@gmail.com>; "bvjlokpal@gmail.com" <bvjlokpal@gmail.com>; "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>; Sandeep Jalan <legallyspeaking.jalan@gmail.com>; Bimal Khemani <bimal.khemani@rediffmail.com>; Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@yahoo.com>; "majorravi@gmail.com" <majorravi@gmail.com>; Bhaskar Prabhu <mahitiadhikarmanch@gmail.com>; "vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in" <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>; urvashi sharma <aishwaryaj.hpage@gmail.com>; "usukulsingh@hotmail.com" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>; Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com>; Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>; raja bunch <bunch_raja@yahoo.co.in>; M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>; virender johar <virender.johar@gmail.com>; GAUTHAM BELLUR VEERESH <gautham_b_v@yahoo.co.in>; "veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com" <veeresh_bellur@yahoo.com>; "yescay5859@gmail.com" <yescay5859@gmail.com>; "drtsbairy@yahoo.com" <drtsbairy@yahoo.com>; "drjayamohanan@gmail.com" <drjayamohanan@gmail.com>; "bhaishajya@yahoo.com" <bhaishajya@yahoo.com>; "sripathi.rao@manipal.edu" <sripathi.rao@manipal.edu>; "dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com" <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>; "drvghuddar@rediffmail.com" <drvghuddar@rediffmail.com>; Dr.V.N. Sharma <vnsh44@gmail.com>; Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>; "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>; "manojputhran@yahoo.com" <manojputhran@yahoo.com>; "ananthmmt@gmail.com" <ananthmmt@gmail.com>; ANARASAN 23357167 <aplesoft@yahoo.com>; "cksadasivan@hotmail.com" <cksadasivan@hotmail.com>; "parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in" <parkalasrinivas@yahoo.co.in>; "prakashkanive@yahoo.com" <prakashkanive@yahoo.com>; "tvidyashankar@yahoo.com" <tvidyashankar@yahoo.com>; "xmendonsa@yahoo.com" <xmendonsa@yahoo.com>; xaviervadakkekara <editor@indiancurrents.com>Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 7:24 AMSubject: [rti4empowerment] From WEDS to Anna Hazare & others who espouse the cause pf Lok Pal bill Dear Hazare, While I do concede that corruption is rampant in our country & it has become a canker worm. An authority such as LokPal elected directly by people of India is essential who will surveil President , Governors of States, Prime Minister, Council of Ministers, Chief Ministers of States, Parliamentarians, Chief Justice of India, Chief Justices of all state High Courts & is accountable to the people. However, Anna Hazare or his associates or Ramdev are not representatives of People. In democracy after an elected government is installed, people can represent via the elected MPs from each constituency about any issue & if majority of people do so, the elected government is bound to implement their wishes. Anna Hazare, his other associates & Ramdev do not have mandate of people. Hence, Kapil Sibbal's ironic it may appear, remark that Anna Hazare is trying to run a parallel government is right. So also is the ouster of Ramdev & his supporters from Ramlila grounds. So, as the cause Anna Hazare has espoused is very relevant what he and his associates should do is to travel to the length & breadth of India, convince people to sign a memorandum insisting for installation of Lok Pal, amend constitution therefor, submit that memorandum via the MPs of various constituencies in our country against valid acknowledgement & undertaking to submit it to Parliament of India for deliberation. If there is a democratic majority, the elected government is bound to enact Lok Pal bill in the manner people choose. It is undemocratic to fast unto death, shouting slogans, holding processions etc. These do not have mandate of people & mandate of People very essential which that only an elected government has. So however, relevant the cause Anna Hazare & others have espoused & the manner in which it is being furthered becomes subversion of democracy as they do not have mandate of people & their acts a breach of public peace. Regards, WEDS
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