Source: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/369082-steuer-for-ebay-seller-kleinunternehmer-rules/?page=2
Timestamp: 2020-04-07 12:27:22
Document Index: 13406958

Matched Legal Cases: ['§19', '§4', '§4', '§3', '§14', '§33']

Steuer for Ebay Seller -- (no longer a) Kleinunternehmer rules - Page 2 - Finance - Toytown Germany
41 minutes ago, MLmunich said:
Yes, the turnover that he generated selling to EU businesses (innergemeinschaftliche Lieferung) and to non-EU countries (Ausfuhrliefungen) counts towards the 17,500€ Kleinunternehmer turnover limit.
You can either believe this Steuerberaterin that they count towards the turnover limit, see the section "III. Auswirkungen auf die Umsatzgrenzen": http://stb-heinze.de/mediapool/95/952093/data/Merkblaetter/Merkblatt-Kleinunternehmerregelung_gre_1_.pdf
Or you look directly into the law, into §19 UStG, and you will see that only a few VAT-free (= steuerfreie) turnovers do not count towards that Gesamtumsatz (= total turnover):
His VAT-free (= steuerfreie) turnovers are not of the ones listed above.
Ausfuhrliefungen, i.e. export to non-EU country: is §4 Nr. 1 Buchstabe a UStG
innergemeinschaftliche Lieferung, i.e. export to non-EU business: is §4 Nr. 1 Buchstabe b UStG
so they do count towards his Gesamtumsatz.
However, it's a very good thing that they do, because if he were still a Kleinunternehmer he couldn't get back the VAT he paid on the merchandise he bought for selling on, including the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (note: only for 2017, since before he was a Kleinunternehmer).
If you look at his business model, i.e. selling to EU businesses and non-EU countries, his no longer being a Kleinunternehmer means that he now has the best of both worlds:
he doesn't charge German VAT
he gets back the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer and normal German VAT on stuff he bought for his business, and he doesn't pay any VAT on stuff he buys for his business from EU businesses. If he had still been a Kleinunternehmer he wouldn't get it back.
No, he is not allowed to claim for them in his Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung.
He can however get back the EU VAT he paid on his purchases (but only for purchase made after he was no longer a Kleinunternehmer, i.e. in his case for 2017 purchases), by following this tedious procedure (if you read further on in that thread you will see what hoops ruapehu had to jump through to get that UK VAT back):
You know what, in your special case, since he hasn't yet filed any tax returns, it may be financially more advantageous to opt out of being a Kleinunternehmer from the very start of his business, i.e. correct all his invoices, submit Umsatzsteuervoranmeldungen and an Umsatzsteuererklärung also for 2016.
That way he can get back the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer and German VAT that he paid (and EU VAT, if he jumps through all the hoops).
You would of course first have to calculate it through and see whether that alternative is more advantageous, i.e. if he sold a lot to German customers or EU private customers in 2016 and would therefore owe German VAT on these sales, it may not make sense financially.
Ok, so just to summarize and make sure I understand everything about the VAT announcements:
1. All net sales (net = without added VAT) to private German and EU customers go into line 26, field 81 of the VAT announcement. The form then calculates the 19% Umsatzsteuer on that amount and it appears in line 26, field 36.
2. All sales to German and EU businesses go in line 41, field 21 and no Umsatzsteuer is owed to the Finanzamt on them.
3. All sales to non-EU countries (whether private or business) go in line 42, field 45 and no Umsatzsteuer is owed to the Finanzamt on them.
4. All VAT paid on purchases from German businesses goes in line 56, field 66 and the form automatically deducts it from the Umsatzsteuer owed in line 26, field 36.
5. All Einfuhrumsatzsteuer goes in line 58, field 62 and and the form automatically deducts it from the Umsatzsteuer owed in line 26, field 36.
6. VAT paid on purchases from non-German EU businesses cannot be claimed on the VAT announcement—instead you have to do this complicated procedure: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/110564-various-tax-advice-for-freelancers-in-germany/?do=findComment&comment=2799071 (And you can only get this VAT back when you are no longer a Kleinunternehmer)
This means he owes German VAT on purchases made in Vietnam? Do I enter the net price (before 19% Umsatzsteuer) or the final price into line 33, field 89? And then I enter the VAT paid into line 57, field 61.
Does this German VAT need to be indicated on his invoices from Vietnamese businesses? Should these Vietnamese businesses also have German VAT ID numbers?! I imagine this would be totally confusing for people in Vietnam and they might suspect my husband of tricking them into something.
I think a lot of the purchases he makes in Vietnam might be from farmer people who don’t have an official registered business, does he also need to pay and reclaim VAT on those purchases, or only registered businesses in Vietnam?
He needs to keep any and all sales invoices to put on the income side of his EÜR.
All of his sales invoices should include his VAT-ID.
For private German or EU customers, he must indicate a VAT amount charged.
For customers who are German or EU businesses, he should not indicate any VAT charged. He must also write the customer’s VAT-ID and must include the phrase "innergemeinschaftliche Lieferung". He also needs a Gelangensbestätigung to prove the customer received the product.
For non-EU customers, he should not indicate any VAT charged. The invoice must include the phrase "umsatzsteuerfreie Ausfuhrlieferung" and he needs proof the customer received the product.
So how exactly should VAT be charged to various types of customers? How does it work when, for example, he puts a product on eBay for 24,99€? Do all customers, whether private or business, German, EU, or non-EU owe him 24,99€, and the only difference is that you show a net price of 21,00€ plus 3,99€ VAT on invoices to private German and EU customers? Or do only private German and EU customers owe him 24,99€ and the others can all deduct 3,99€ because they don’t owe VAT? It seems you can only list one price for an item on eBay, and eBay fees (10% of sales price and shipping) are also taken from this amount, so it would be bad if eBay took 10% of 24,99€ and added 24,99€ to his Umsatz record for the month, where in reality he only took in 21,00€ for all customers other than private German and EU customers.
He needs to keep any and all purchase invoices to put on the expenses side of his EÜR.
For his VAT announcements he needs to keep all purchase invoices from German businesses where he was required to pay VAT. (I thought he was VAT exempt from all German/EU businesses, so when does this apply? Does it just apply to consumer purchases from businesses like office supply stores or Kustermann where he can’t tell them to take off the 19% VAT, or is he allowed to be charged VAT also when handling directly with German businesses? If businesses charge the same price whether or not VAT is factored into the invoice, like in the 24,99€ example above, then it’s more economical to be able to claim back 3,99€ versus asking to be VAT exempt and still paying 24,99€ without being able to claim 3,99€ back, right?)
He doesn't need to keep purchase invoices from EU businesses for his VAT announcement because he cannot claim it back on the VAT announcement. He should provide his VAT ID to the seller so that he is not charged VAT, because he cannot claim it back on the VAT announcements and can only claim it back through the above-mentioned hoops. However if they also charge 24,99€ to everyone and VAT is only a difference in writing 21,00€ + 3,99€ on their invoice, then it would also make more sense to just allow yourself to be charged VAT (if you’re willing to go through the hoops to claim it back!) versus still being charged 24,99€ and not being able to claim 3,99€ back, right?
With all non-EU businesses, such as in Vietnam, he needs to request that the business indicates owed German VAT in the invoice? Or he just fills out the numbers in the VAT announcement without having them indicate German VAT in their invoice?
He also needs to keep all shipping invoices where he was required to pay Einfuhrumsatzsteuer.
With all private purchases, he does not owe any VAT and only needs to retain these invoices for his EÜR.
I think maybe I’ve finally almost completely wrapped my head around this.
Ok, I'll get the 2017 VAT announcements out of the way first and then see if I'm bright enough to figure out the cost effectiveness of submitting VAT announcements for 2016!
Also, I just went in and noticed that he has been charged German VAT by eBay on his 10% eBay fees. I read that if he provides his VAT ID number, he will no longer have to do this, so I'm trying to figure out how to do that. In the meantime, can he subtract this VAT on his VAT announcements too?
6. VAT paid on purchases from non-German EU businesses cannot be claimed on the VAT announcement—instead you have to do this complicated procedure: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/110564-various-tax-advice-for-freelancers-in-germany/?do=findComment&comment=2799071 (And you can only get this VAT back when you are no longer a Kleinunternehmer
No, all sales to German private or business customers go into line 26, field 81. The sense behind this is that the German business he sold to will then get that VAT that they paid to your husband, back through their own Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung. You are right that it would be more efficient not to charge a German business that VAT in the first place, since it will get it back anyway in the end, but we haven't yet quite got there - tradition prevails.
No, only sales to EU businesses go in line 41, field 21.
Sorry, in my above quote, that "non" in non-EU was a writing mistake, it should read simply EU.
For anything your husband bought (which will only happen from now on, since you didn't know about this before) for business use from an EU business while giving them his VAT ID and therefore not having been charged that foreign VAT, he has to pay 19% German VAT on it (= fill into line 33, field 89), but at the same time claims for that VAT amount in his Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung (= fill VAT amount into lien 57, field 61), so no money ends up being paid because of the purchase.
This is called innergemeinschaftlicher Erwerb, i.e. intra-community purchase, with community being the European Union.
For anything he buys from outside the EU, the German customs (= Zoll) will anyway make him pay VAT on it, they won't give him the merchandise before he has paid the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer on it.
And also for German business customers.
Only for EU business customers.
As you can see above, he always charges VAT to German business customers.
No, he just needs proof that he sent it to that non-EU country. He doesn't have to prove that it actually arrived there.
So the rules for sales to EU business customers are stricter than for sales to non-EU customers.
Yes, basically he will lose some money if he sells to German (business or private) customers, or to EU private customers, since from the price he charges, he will have to give a part of it to the state in form of VAT.
Some ebay sellers, like Martini, go so far as to write into the article description that if such a customer buys an article, they will ask him to pay 19% more, see here for an example: http://www.ebay.de/itm/CLEARANCE-SALE-GRAF-FABER-CASTELL-Guilloche-Indigo-pen-/252895610981?hash=item3ae1c0c865
Which is illegal by the way, all prices in Germany have to include VAT, i.e. be end prices, unless the items are sold on a platform to which only businesses have access (which is why Otto-Office.de has two online shops, one just for businesses which shows prices excluding VAT, and one where anybody can buy, which shows prices including VAT), which however isn't the case for ebay.de.
So what Martini is doing is illegal, but never mind.
ebay doesn't seem to allow for VAT-free sales, so nobody gets to deduct anything, i.e. the price is always the same.
Sale price is always 24.99€, but:
German private or business customer, or EU private customer, or EU business customer who didn't provide its VAT ID: invoice 21€ + 3.99€ VAT --> your husband gets to keep 21€
EU business that provided its VAT ID: invoice 24.99€, no VAT, and phrase "innergemeinschaftliche Lieferung" --> your husband gets to keep 24.99€, as long as that EU business also provided him with a signed Gelangensbestätigung after the goods arrived there
non-EU private or business customer: invoice 24.99€, no VAT, and phrase "Ausfuhrlieferung" --> your husband gets to keep 24.99€, as long as he has proof that he sent it to that non-Eu country
That ebay charges its commission on the price including VAT is something that you will have to live with, it probably stems from the fact that ebay started out as a platform where private sellers sold things and therefore VAT wasn't an issue.
Just think of it as a higher commission.
As said before, German businesses always charge other German business VAT.
He needs to keep all invoices (purchase or sales, no matter from/to whom) for 10 years in case of an audit by the Finanzamt!
Never throw away invoices.
You also need to declare purchases made from EU businesses where you provided your VAT ID and therefore didn't pay foreign VAT in your Umsatzsteuer-Vornameldung, see "innergemeinschaftlicher Erwerb" further up in this post.
Yes, if start seeing things from the buyer's perspective, an EU business would be better off not telling your husband their VAT ID, so that he has to issue them an invoice 21€ + 3.99€ VAT, which they would then use to go that torturous procedure where they would in the end get back those 3.99€ German VAT.
Sorry, you're asking this because of my mistake in that earlier post.
The Vietnamese simply issue him invoices like they have to under Vietnamese law. The German VAT on that amount will happen later on, once the merchandise enters Germany, the Zoll will charge him 19% Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (which is a kind of VAT) on the end price written on that invoice, plus they also charge 19% on the shipping costs.
But remember: never throw anything away if it is still in the 10 year audit period.
Yes, any VAT he paid to ebay he can claim for in his Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung (as long as he was no longer a Kleinunternehmer at that time).
Ok, so here’s the final draft on everything I need to know about the VAT announcements so I can refer to just one post while I finally get the VAT announcements done:
All net sales (net = without added VAT) to private German customers, business German customers, and private EU customers go into line 26, field 81 of the VAT announcement. The form then calculates the 19% Umsatzsteuer on that amount and it appears in line 26, field 36.
All sales to EU businesses go in line 41, field 21 and no Umsatzsteuer is owed to the Finanzamt on them.
All sales to non-EU countries (whether private or business) go in line 42, field 45 and no Umsatzsteuer is owed to the Finanzamt on them.
All VAT paid on purchases from German businesses goes in line 56, field 66 and is automatically deducted by the form from the Umsatzsteuer owed in line 26, field 36.
For all invoices on purchases from EU businesses, you have two options:
Provide your VAT ID and not be charged that country’s VAT rate.
Not provide your VAT ID and be charged that country’s VAT rate. Go through some cumbersome steps to get it back. https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/110564-various-tax-advice-for-freelancers-in-germany/?do=findComment&comment=2799071 (And you can only get this VAT back when you are no longer a Kleinunternehmer)
In both cases, the EU business does not have to indicate German VAT on their invoice, but you still need to enter this hypothetical German VAT on your VAT announcement: Enter the fictive 19% VAT of the fictive net price in line 33, field 89. Then minus the same amount by entering it in 67, field 61. So it cancels out and doesn’t really mean anything.
3. For all non-EU purchases, Einfuhrumsatzsteuer will be charged, which goes in line 58, field 62 and is deducted from the Umsatzsteuer owed in line 26, field 36.
HE NEEDS TO KEEP ALL INVOICES (WHETHER SALES OR PURCHASE) FOR TEN YEARS IN CASE OF AN AUDIT BY THE FINANZAMT.
INVOICE REQUIREMENTS FOR VAT ANNOUNCEMENTS:
For private German customers, business German customers, and private EU customers, he must indicate the VAT amount charged. It is illegal to add VAT on top of a product price, you can only factor it out of the price. (For example, if the product is listed for 24,99€, you can not charge your VAT-owing customers 29,74€. Everyone pays the same final price, regardless of whether they owe VAT or not.)
For customers who are EU businesses, he should not indicate any VAT charged. He must also write the customer’s VAT-ID and must include the phrase "innergemeinschaftliche Lieferung". He also needs a Gelangensbestätigung to prove the customer received the product.
For non-EU customers, he should not indicate any VAT charged. The invoice must include the phrase "umsatzsteuerfreie Ausfuhrlieferung" and he needs proof he sent the product to the customer.
He will need all purchase invoices from German businesses, because he was required to pay German VAT on all of them.
He will need all purchase invoices from non-German EU businesses, because he is required to add and subtract a fictive German VAT for these on his VAT announcements.
He will need all shipping invoices where he was required to pay Einfuhrumsatzsteuer on purchase invoices from non-EU businesses as proof to claim this back.
Does this go in line 56, field 66?
Ok to everything, except:
2. For all invoices on purchases from EU businesses, you have two options:
No, if you didn't give them your VAT ID and that EU business therefore charged you foreign VAT, then that invoice does not appear at all in your Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung. You would only use it in the cumbersome VAT reimbursement process with which to get back EU VAT.
So it's only purchases where you gave your VAT ID to that EU business and therefore didn't pay foreign VAT that appear in the Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung as described above, not with a fictive net amount, but the real amount from that invoice (which happens to be net, since with no VAT, net = gross).
So, as soon as you give ebay your VAT ID, the amounts invoiced by ebay will have to be reported in your monthly Umsatzsteuer-Voranmeldungen in the manner described above.
If that is 19% German VAT, then yes, that's where it goes.
From what I googled: http://verkaeuferportal.ebay.de/verkaeufer-news/2016-herbst/umsatzsteuer-identifikationsnummer
ebay is registered in Luxembourg and as an EU business would normally have to charge the local Luxembourg VAT rate.
However, ebay charges 19% German VAT since their turnover in Germany exceeds the limit, same as Amazon.co.uk's does, remember the relevant section in here:
"If you do deliver that much to the other EU country then you have to charge that other country's VAT rate (for example Amazon.co.uk charges German customers the German 19% VAT rate since they deliver wares for more than 100,000€ a year to Germany). In Germany this is laid down in the Versandhausparagraph §3c UStG, see here for an overview of the limits from which you have to start charging that other country's VAT rate (and said VAT will go to the other country's tax coffers!)."
Ok, so then yes it is German VAT and goes in line 56, field 66.
If you haven't yet found it, here's the link for telling ebay your husband's VAT ID:
USt-ID Nr. bei eBay hinterlegen – so funktioniert’s
Wenn Sie als gewerblicher Verkäufer bei eBay angemeldet sind, hinterlegen Sie Ihre USt-ID Nr. bei eBay. Nur dann erkennt das eBay-System diese und wir berechnen Ihnen Ihre Gebühren netto.
Thanks so much! I actually just did this today and starting retroactively from April 16th 2017, all of his eBay fees no longer add 19% VAT. Going back to his eBay sales Rechnungen from January to April, however, I calculated that he WAS charged 19% VAT on top of his eBay fees. And the annoying thing is that they don't indicate the 19% VAT anywhere in the Rechnungen... They only give the final eBay fee including the 19% VAT. So is it enough if I print the eBay monthly sales Rechnungen and pencil in the VAT portion of the eBay fee next to the brutto fee?
For example you can see he sold a motor in January for 79,99€. The eBay fee percent for this product category is 8,5%. The total eBay fee was €8,09.
So it was calculated as follows:
8,5% of €79,99 = €6,7995
€6,7995 * 1,19 = €8,09
Can I pencil in the €1,29 VAT next to the eBay fee?
For all invoices for up to 150€ it's sufficient that it says that it contains 19% VAT, the issuer doesn't have to explicitly state the VAT amount in the invoice: http://www.finanztip.de/ust-in-rechnungen/
I think he might have some over that though I see one for €900 for example.
Well, you could send ebay a link to §14 Absatz 4 Nr. 8 UStG which tells them an invoice has to contain the VAT amount in € and the exemption to that rule for invoices up to 150€ in §33 UStDV, allowing them to just state the contained VAT rate in those smaller invoices
Hmmm... sounds like a big project!
As for proof that a European business customer received the ordered good, is a Gelangenbestätigung absolutely necessary or are his eBay monthly invoices enough? (Because he cannot be charged eBay fees on business transactions that were not actually carried out, so when transactions are listed in his eBay monthly invoices it means that the customer bought the product and it was delivered to them.)
Same question for Foreign customers: what form of proof can he use to show that he shipped the item to the customer? Can eBay monthly invoices not also be used here?
Lastly, he previously has not written invoices, because he had no idea he had to. He thought making the sale through eBay and sending the customer the order was sufficient. So should he just write the invoices retroactively or are his eBay monthly invoices sufficient evidence of his business activity?
EU-business customers: You need either a Gelangensbestätigung or a tracking protocol showing the parcel was delivered to that EU business. So if you opt for the tracking protocol, you will need to save them as pdf-files (to do that, just "print" in your browser using CTRL+P, or STRG+P if you use a German keyboard, and choose "Save as pdf" as your printer) immediately after each parcel is delivered (these tracking protocols are only available for a limited time after the item has been delivered), so as to have proof. Details in here: https://www.haufe.de/steuern/kanzlei-co/gelangensbestaetigung-co-erfahrungsberichte-aus-der-praxis_170_278396.html
If you don't have either the Gelangensbestätigung or the track-and-trace-protocol, the VAT auditor (= Umsatzsteuersonderprüfer) will retroactively charge you those 19% VAT. Don't forget that you also needs those EU business customers' VAT IDs as proof that they really were businesses!
non-EU customers: well, he did use a shipping service to ship, didn't he? Those have tracking numbers that show the parcel's path to that non-EU country. If he sends by untracked Deutsche Post snail mail, in the future make a photo of each parcel/letter clearly showing the recipient's name and address on it and the stamps.
Nothing to be done about the past, so just hope you don't get audited.
Write the invoices retroactively, at least for 2017, it's mandatory.
He would probably get away with only retroactively writing the 2016 Kleinunternehmer invoices after he is told he is being audited, since as a Kleinunternehmer he doesn't pay VAT and therefore will not be audited for 2016 by the (very strict!) VAT auditors.
The income tax auditors at the Finanzamt are more easy-going, the VAT auditors are extreme...
EU-business customers: You need either a Gelangensbestätigung or a tracking protocol showing the parcel was delivered to that EU business. So if you opt for the tracking protocol, you will need to save them as pdf-files (to do that, just "print" in your browser using CTRL+P, or STRG+P if you use a German keyboard, and choose "Save as pdf" as your printer) immediately after each parcel is delivered (these tracking protocols are only available for a limited time after the item has been delivered), so as to have proof.
The tracking protocol is just when you go to the page of the shipping service, enter the tracking number, and the path of the parcel is showed with dates and locations with the final one being pick-up by the customer, right?
I just asked him and he said he always uses a tracking number when sending packages abroad. So is the shipping slip with this tracking number enough?
Supposing that he did send something untracked, he should take photos of the final posted packages at the post office right before shipping, and should he then have these photos printed and filed away?
Ok, so long as it is allowed, I will write the invoices for 2016 for him too. I assume it's allowed? It should be easy because he has a record of everything in his e-mail and on eBay, but I'll wait until it's apparent whether or not I should have included VAT and submitted VAT announcements. So I'll get 2017 done first.
From now on I'm jumping in to make sure he does everything the right way as we go along!
Just print those track-and-trace protocols for both non-EU and EU business customers, since in the case of non-EU customers just having the tracking number won't help you once the record associated with it gets erased by the shipping company, since a number in itself doesn't tell you to which country it got sent.
Of course you can write the 2016 invoices now, but what do you mean by:
"but I'll wait until it's apparent whether or not I should have included VAT and submitted VAT announcements. So I'll get 2017 done first." ?
"but I'll wait until it's apparent whether or not I should have included VAT and submitted VAT announcements. So I'll get 2017 done first."