Source: http://blog.xanthippas.com/tag/defamation/
Timestamp: 2020-06-04 17:42:46
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defamation | Xanthippa's Chamberpot
Baglow vs. Fournier, Forunier & Smith – the trial continues
June 2, 2014 — xanthippa
Back in March, I wrote about the Dr. Dawg vs. Fourniers and Smith full trial, covering Day 1 part 1 and part 2 , Day 2, Day 3 and Day 4 part 1 and part 2.
Aside: I did attend day 5, and did keep notes, and I did try to write it up. However, I found it difficult to do it justice, before the cross examination is finished. I do still hope to write about day 5, just when the time is ‘right’.)
Well days 6 and 7 are almost upon us!
The trial will continue on June 3rd and 4th, at the Elgin Street Court House in Ottawa. If you happen to be in Ottawa and have a bit of time, drop by and see history made.
And I am not exaggerating when I say that this will be a historic case: the full trial is being held specifically because the appeal court justices believed that legal precedents regarding online communications need to be set. Therefore, this case will become the guidelines by which all future online communication is judged!
In the words of the Fourniers themselves:
A win in the Baglow case could save FD!
Free Dominion, as you know, is still closed to the public, but that doesn’t mean we have quit!
We are appealing the Warman decision that resulted in the site being closed, and we are currently fighting a very important test case for internet defamation. A win in this case, Baglow v Free Dominion, could result in a decision that site operators are not responsible for the posts of other people. That case law would mean it would be safe for us to re-open the doors of Free Dominion!
The case so far..
We reported last time we wrote you that the Baglow trial would be three days long. Not only did it take that entire week, but we have to go back again for two days in June, and for another whole week in September! That means we will be in court for a total of 13 days for a total of 7 little words!
On June 3rd and 4th we will be in Ottawa for the next phase of that Baglow trial. Connie is representing herself and Barbara Kulaszka is representing Mark. The CCLA is intervening on our behalf.
On June 3rd, Connie will be cross-examining John Baglow and we will hear from the CCLA on the 4th. It will be at the Courthouse at 161 Elgin St, as usual.
Drop by if you can, we would love to see you!
We are running a fundraiser to get our legal fund through the summer. We’ve decided not to use indiegogo this time because it costs a lot and we have to pay them their percentage on offline donations, too, if we want to keep the total current. Instead, we are running it on Free Dominion.
If you can help, we would really appreciate it!
You can use PayPal by clicking this link: Donate
If you feel more inclined, you can also help out using an Interac Email Money Transfer to connie@freedominion.ca .
Alternatively, our mailing address is:
Thank you so much to all of you for being there for us! Monetarily, but also through your thoughts, prayers and encouragement. We are not going to give up, and we hope that the result of our fight is more freedom for all of us!
Posted in freedoms, politics, society, technology. Tags: communication, defamation, Dr. Dawg, Fournier, Free Dominion, freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, internet, John Baglow, lawfare, laws, politics, SLAPP suit, technology. Leave a Comment »
Mark Steyn files more court documents
April 1, 2014 — xanthippa
As most of you know, Mark Steyn is a defendant in a lawsuit by the possibly Canuckaphobic (judging by the disproportional number of Canadians among the victims of his lawfare) and reflexively litigious Dr. Michael Mann.
If you’ve been following this (among all the other ‘defamation’ cases), you might be interested in this filing opposing the dismissal of counterclaims.
And, to get you into the mood, here is ‘Hide the Decline – Part 2’ for your listening (and viewing) pleasure:
Posted in science, scientific fraud. Tags: ACC, defamation, fraud, Global Warming, IPCC fraud, Mark Steyn, science. Leave a Comment »
John Baglow vs Connie Fournier, Mark Fournier and Roger Smith: the ‘FULL TRIAL’, day 3
March 31, 2014 — xanthippa
NOTICE: this post discusses and assesses the testimony given by Mr. Bows, so, if any reader who is banned by the court from reading about Mr. Bow’s testimony until his own is finished comes across this post, they ought to leave this page right away in order not to breach the court’s order.
Day 1 part 1 and part 2 are here. (all previous caveats still apply, though I have temporarily borrowed a slightly better tech.)
Alternate account is here: day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4.
Day 3, Wednesday, was the ‘broken-up day’: Madam justice had a previous commitment for a 3 hour meeting smack dab in the middle of the day. So, the court was scheduled from 9:30 to 10:30, then a bit of a break, then again from 1:30 to 5:00. And, as I had commitments of my own which I had been neglecting due to the trial, I took the morning to try and get caught up on some of them. So, I missed the morning hour…
I was there for 1:30, ready to go! But, the most exciting thing to happen was that the bailiff announced that the courtroom clock had finally been fixed!!! It now actually displays the correct time….
After a bit of waiting, we learned that Madam justice had finished her meeting, but needed a bite to eat, so the court would not reconvene until 2 pm. Oh well…
At 2 pm, on the dot, the court reconvened. And, I had another little surprise: Dr. Baglow was not on the stand!
Could he have finished his testimony and been cross examined by 4 people in the span of the morning hour? Not quite…
Because the trial had originally been scheduled for 3 days only, that is how long Mr. Bow had planned to be away. In order to accommodate him, all the participants agreed to permit Dr. Baglow’s testimony to be interrupted in order to let Mr. Bow testify and be cross examined first.
Mr. James Edward Bow chose to swear on the Bible, then settled in to the witness box. In his dark grey suit, white shirt, striped tie, with understated wire-rim glasses complementing his dark hair and eyes, he looked handsome and dapper.
Aside: while talking about what people were wearing…Connie wore a fuchsia cardigan that was almost identical in colour to my own top, but mine was short sleeve, so all awkwardness was avoided! Sorry – humorous interlude over!
Mr. Bow testified that he lived in Kitchener, Ontario and worked as a freelance writer with a web designed business on the side. While he never had any formal training in web designed, he had worked for a number of tech companies in the 90’s and received a lot of on the job training. In 2005, when his daughter was born, he became a stay-at-home dad while doing the writing and web stuff on the side from home. As a stay-at-home mom who also blogs, I can relate!
When Mr. Bow testified that he had received his degree in Environmentalism, I began to seriously doubt Dr. Baglow’s sanity: is he really bringing a capital ‘E’ Environmentalist to try to support the veracity of a contentious claim? Really?!?!?
I had to work hard to suppress a bout of giggles: like ANYONE on EARTH would ever again believe a word that comes out of the mouth of an ‘E’nvironmentlist!!!
Disclosure – my background is physics, field of data acquisition and analysis…and I specialized in helping scientists/technologists avoid ‘conformational bias’…so, I find the modern ‘E’nvironmentalists particularly, well, how can I put this without being defamatory…’not up to snuff’ scientifically and having a very, very deep, perhaps un-bridgeable, credibility deficit.
In my never humble opinion, Mr. Bow’s testimony bore out the expectations one would have of an ‘E’nvironmentalist: lots of claims of technical expertise followed by ‘D’uh, I don’t know how to do that…’
To his credit, Mr. Bow tried very hard to support his friend, Dr. Baglow, but to anyone with an iota if IT knowledge, he simply did not come across as credible – to my never-humble-thinking.
He blamed Dr. Baglow for not updating the comments before they attempted to migrate them to the new platform (without explaining why they could not have simply gone through the steps of updating step by step by step…), completely forgetting that if they had both migrated the site to the new spot (for the hosting of which Mr. Bow got paid by Dr. Baglow) AND left the old site up, instead of shutting it down, the defendants in this case would not have been deprived of access to information essential to their defense. No amount of difficulties with migrating the comments over would have caused this damage had they not actively shut the old site down…
In another bit of testimony, Mr. Bow testified that it was Dr. Baglow’s decision to stop trying to recover the ‘lost’ comments, or he would have continued to look for ways of migrating them over. In my never-humble-opinion, this was Mr. Bow covering his rear end, making sure his incompetence did not get perceived as malice and shifting all responsibility for the ‘lost’ comments squarely onto Dr. Baglow.
At this point, my other-world duties pulled me out of the courtroom: I may have put off fixing my own broken (front) tooth till next week in order to attend the trial, but, I could not put such limitations on ‘my little one’ (OK, he’s taller than I am, but he will ALWAYS be ‘my little one’!!!) and I had to leave the courtroom in order to take HIM to the dentist…
When I left the courtroom in a rush, I found Dr. Baglow pacing nervously in front of the courtroom: by the judge’s order (and as per ‘normal’ practice, he was excluded from the courtroom while other witnesses for his side’ were ‘on the stand’). As we had exchanged pleasantries in the past few days, and as he had always been very civil towards me, I greeted him and had a little (though very hurried – I had stayed in the courtroom well into my time-margin).
During this exchange, he pointed out to me that I had indeed misunderstood the timing when he had joined the NDP. I had reported on this in Day 2: having heard that he had torn up his NDP membership card during Buffalo Bob’s reign, and the accusations that Bob Rae’s political opponents were motivated by anti-Semitism (since Mr. Rae’s wife is Jewish), I wanted to head off any potential smear campaign against Mr. Baglow due to the confluence of this. Yes, I pointed this out in my reporting – but, with sincere and honest statement of fact that I do NOT believe Dr. Baglow to be an anti-Semite – specifically to ward off any potential smear campaign.
Which is why I was very happy that Dr.Bglow corrected my error: he had actually joined the NDP because he had been inspired by Bob Rae’s electoral victory! And, as I understood (and reported), it was Mr. Rae’s subsequent policies that got him so disgusted, he ‘tore up his membership card’.
He accepted my assurance that my calling attention to this was an effort to ‘nip in the bud’ any smears – and appreciated it. I in turn, appreciated being corrected, because I would much rather be corrected in the short run and carry accurate information than be left in error!!!
I promised to correct in in the original post (I put the edit at the top, so anyone reading it will have the correction before getting to the erroneous bit, without hiding I had made an error), and I also promised to describe our conversation on ‘day 3’ to explain how the correction came about.
That was it for me for ‘day 3’ – days 4 and 5 are coming up as soon as I can type them up!
As always: if I have made any errors, if you can correct/add to this commentary, please do so and I’ll be glad to edit this post in order to add your comment!!!
Posted in Aspergers, freedoms, politics, society, technology. Tags: defamation, Fournier, Free Dominion, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, John Baglow, lawfare, laws, lawsuit, SLAPP suit. Leave a Comment »
John Baglow vs Connie Fournier, Mark Fournier and Roger Smith: the ‘FULL TRIAL’, day 1, part 2
March 27, 2014 — xanthippa
All the caveats from part 1 (more or less forming most of part 1) apply. Please read them….DLDR: borrowed clunky tech and limited internet time, cannot highlight (thus link etc.) – will update once my computer is fixed. Also, these are all jut my highly imperfect personal observations and opinions and ought not be treated as anything more than that.
An account of Day 1 can be found at The FreedomSite Blog.
I have been struggling with how to write up this part, because things got quite sensational at some points and I am quite terrified that if I repeat what I believe to have heard in court, I will open myself up to being sued because as I understand the current state of Canada defamation laws, truth is not a defense there, either, as a person is presumed to be guilty and malicious and if the words are ‘spoken maliciously’ then their truthfulness is irrelevant.
In my online persona, I have chosen to emulate Xanthippe, the wife of Socrates and THE proverbial nag: I am good at nagging, so I thought I’d go with it. But, as Xanthippa, I try my best to channel Xanthippe with all her vitriol and sharp tongue – that’s part of the fun of creating an online persona: it is not you you, but that persona you, so you can say what the you you might, but in a different way, more in line with the persona you are attempting to channel. (Remember, if it were not for anonymous speech, the Federalist Papers could never have been published and the USA would still be a Crown possession.)
Something that Xanthippa says with the persona-appropriate vitriol which defines her and signifies no more than a reflection of her nature could, quite easily, be misinterpreted as ‘malicious’ when all I am doing is role-playing…presenting my opinion, but with a satirical twist. And satire does not come across too easily in the courtroom!
Aside: there will be more personas I am developing in a different, non-written online project, but more about that later. (But, if anyone has an old but nice wig they’d be willing to donate to that effort, I would be eternally grateful.)
Back to the trial: first on the order were some legal tidying-up thingies and once these were out of the way, Madam Justice Polowin esplained that she is a bit of a luddite and barely knows how to use email…and has never ever read a blog. A ‘clean slate’ she called herself. I am not convinced this is the best background for this case, as it may get very technical, but (and I am jumping ahead in time somewhat) she took copious notes of everything and whenever she needed to understand a point, she not only asked for a clarification, she actually repeated her understanding of the point and asked for confirmation that it is accurate. That, in my never-humble-opinion, is a good thing.
Another point of interest was that motion was introduced that any potential witnesses are to be excluded from the courtroom until after their testimony and cross examination, so as not to be influenced by what they hear and see before they testify. All parties agreed and a nice-dressed gentleman (Mr. Bow, Dr. Baglow’s IT guy) got up and left the courtroom.
Now the opening statements.
Mr. Burnet, Dr. Baglow’s lawyer, went first. He seems like a competent lawyer and he assumed that reasonable, avuncular style that must be effective because it is affected by so many lawyers (good and bad). Personally, I find that particular form of arguing patronizing and irritating at best because the Aspie in me considers it to be a form of manipulation. And we, Aspies, are very allergic to being manipulated: we see such manipulation as using a subtle form of shaming in order to disguise the lack of convincing evidence. This opinion of mine was only strengthened by Mr. Burnet’s nervous habit of scratching the inside of his left ear with the arm of his glasses.
But, that is my perception of his mannerisms and not a reflection on Mr. Burnet’s case because a lot of lawyers affect that style – and a lot of lawyers will try to act as if they have a weak case in order for their opponents to underestimate it and not prepare adequately. And I am sufficiently poor judge of human body language that I would never venture to guess if he was really nervous or pretending to be nervous as part of his courtroom strategy.
If I understood Mr. Burnet’s opening statement accurately, it boils down to a few major points (and I am paraphrasing, at times quite heavily, as my notes are incomplete and I cannot but channel Xanthippe – so, any vitriol you detect below is ‘satire’ and, at times, dark sarcasm, and not malice whatsoever in any way, shape or form):
he anticipates that the defendants will try to defend themselves by trying to suggest that there ought to be one set of laws in real life and a different set of laws on the internet and that this is wrong: the same laws should apply the same way to everybody, for a person’s a person, no matter how small or virtual
his client is a retired civil servant, openly and proudly (sic) left wing, enjoys political discourse and enjoys being a blogger in order to promote intelligent (sic)political debate in the public sphere and that while his blog is the primary vehicle for this, he also does so on other blogs and in traditional media. He engages with people with differing political views.
the defendants’ site is ‘extremely right wing’ and their political views are ‘extremely right wing’ which makes them offensive, which is why his client did not usually engage at Free Dominion, but he did engage in a discussion with Mr. Smith on a different blog…
Aside: up to this point, Mr. Burnet had very considerately explained all the technical terms and jargon patiently answered the many detailed questions the judge had asked. He kind of got into the habit of talking for a bit, then looking up and asking if any explanations were needed. So far, so good. Now, Mr. Burnet delved into how Mr. Smith and his client had gotten into a heated debate about Mr. Baglow’s glaringly hypocritical position* on the re-patriation of Omar Kadr…and he looked up to the judge and asked if she had heard of Omar Khadr. Madam Justice Polowin smiled amusedly and said that even though she may be a luddite, she does read the papers…
His client learned about the offensive comment on the Free Dominion site from somebody else, contacted the Fourniers and demanded a takedown and an apology, but got none.
Articles with his client’s negative views of the Taliban were freely and publicly available and clearly contradicted that statement, even though his client continued to vociferously support Omar Khadr in his efforts at repatriation
his client may have used caustic and vulgar language against his opponent – including the defendants – while on the blogosphere but that does not give them the right to do the same to him (implying, though never quite stating, that if they did not like it, they could have sued him like he is suing them)
the defamatory comment never caused his client any harm, financial or otherwise, but the Canadian defamation laws are so flawed that this does not matter, he can still get money out of this and so he should (the proper legal term Mr. Burnet used, I think, was ‘damages at large’, demanding there not be a breakdown of what were damages and what were penalties, so that the ridiculousness of this situation could more easily be glossed over
Mr. Burnet stressed very vigorously that under our current Canadian defamation laws, guilt and malice are PRESUMED and almost impossible to disprove, so they should just win by default
facilitating putting something onto an obscure and unread spot on the internet = PUBLISHING and having editorial control
this is NOT a Charter challenge because the proper notices have not been filed (with the implications that what the defense is demanding is nothing short of a ‘Charter challenge’ (the judge raised her proverbial eyebrows at this)
this is not a SLAPP suit (methinks the lady does protest too much)
this is NOT a case of limiting freedoms of citizens or (I could not help but chuckle at just how sincerely Mr. Burnet managed to deliver this one) libel chill, freedom of speech, blah blah blah…they’re not being silly bunnies or anything like that…..
just because the internet is evolving does not mean that the tort of defamation ought to evolve with it, to keep pace with emerging technologies is a silly bunny thing to do and any0ne who says otherwise is a snotling-fondler (Please, google ‘snotling-fondler’ for definition as I cannot currently link: it is defined as a vulgar insult and not an actionable term of defamation….’snotlings’ are the lowest form of goblins, which are fictional, so this cannot, by definition, be actionable. And, yes, these are obviously not the actual words Mr. Burnet used, but, in my never-humble-opinion, they capture the ‘spirit’ in which this particular point was offered.)
(and I think I got this argument’s wording down closely to how it was presented, with a saintly hallow hovering over Mr. Burnet’s head) The tort of defamation is the SOLE LAW that underpins civil discourse & keeps it from descending into a cacophonous, vitriolic shouting match dominated by those with the loudest & most strident voices…. (The reason I think I got this one down relatively closely to what was said is because the judge asked for the statement to be repeated and commented amusedly on the terms used.)
It is not exhaustive nor, obviously, word for word, but I hope this captures the spirit of the opening statement by the plaintiff’s lawyer.
Next up was Barbara Kulaszka, the lawyer representing Mark Fournier.
Honest declaration of bias: I have met Ms. Kulaszka and observed her in the courtroom. In person, I think she is brilliant and very, very nice. I have read some of her writings and been deeply impressed by them – insightful, well researched, documented, eloquently phrased and any other praise you wish to heap upon her head. I have, however, been less impressed by her past verbal performance in the courtrooms: that Barbara Kulaszka, however, did not show up today!
I saw passion and fire – and it was excellent! Not just in her opening statement (sorry, jumping ahead again), but she was up on her feet, objecting, arguing passionately and eloquently. In other words, I liked what I saw!
Anyhow: re-focusing!!!
I may not have captured everything, but here are some of the highlights of her opening statement (again, as with the rest of all my writing, paraphrasing, satire, sarcasm, hyperbole and all that, are in play)
pseudonyms not the same as the people who use them (quite right – I may have similar opinions as Xanthippa – but I would not express them in the same way that, as Shakespeare calls he, ‘the proverbial shrew’ would!!! – ok, back to Xanthippa’s voice)
Dr. Dawg called Connie Fournier ‘his worst cyber enemy’ – superhero analogies (In my never-humble-opinion, Connie Fournier IS a real-life super-hero!!! Please, don’t ask me what that would make her cyber-opponents…I don’t want to get sued!)
the argument started on the Jay Curry blog (Aside: I like his new blog much more than his old one.)
heated argument, August 2010, Omar Khadr…election year…
argument started on Jay Curry’s blog, went on to Dawg’s Blog, then there was 1 post on Free Dominion where Roger Smith put up an op-ed type of a post
Omar Khadr, Canadians getting killed – back to Dawg’s Bawg ‘They dare call it treason’…
traitor, treason. +++ – John Baglow does not find being called that ‘objectionable’ (unstated implication: is he proud of those epitaphs? Just what kind of a cat is this ‘Dawg’?)
For his support for Omar Khadr’s repatriation and opposition to the was in Afghanistan, Jack Layton earned the nick-name of ‘Taliban Jack’: this is the same thing! A vocal supporter of the Taliban-linked Omar Khadr’s propaganda message gets tarnished with a Taliban-linked position….logical and natural – and not actionable.
her client, Mark Fournier, had never wrote or approved those words, Roger Smith did – so he should not be liable for them
Mark Fournier never repeated those words (though Dr. Baglow did re-publish them on the internet, several times)
Mark Fournier never received any complaint about those words or any request to remove them – at any point, as the plaintiff only contacted Connie Fournier, never Mark.
WIC Radio vs Simpson, Hill vs Church of Scientology (precedents)
not a Charter challenge, ‘incremental changes’ to the law
‘publication’ should not be found for something anonymous 3rd parties posted in an un-moderated medium
Cost of freedom of speech is getting too high, chilling effect, need legal guidance
words were not capable of defamation in that context
test is contextual, interactive…quoted justice Labelle in the Simpson case (thick skin quote)
political rhetoric…
words do not carry the meaning assigned them by the plaintiff…
malice? – ‘comment’ = editorial comment = hyperbolic language
comment may not be fair, but that is not what ‘fair comment’ means
Dr. Dawg had means to refute, used Miss Mew as a sock-puppet
3rd of April, 2011 – 10’s of thousands f comments suddenly disappeared, denying Mark Fournier access to information needed for his defense
justice Annis found the words were not defamatory
her client is being sued for his political positions and how people react to them, then 10’s of thousands of comments he could have used for his defense disappeared…
There may have been more, but this is what I ‘caught’.
Next came Connie Fournier’s opening statement.
I will not report on what it contained because I am not as brave as Connie and I am afraid that if I told the truth of what was said in public court, I would get sued and loose the family home and my ability to provide a home for my children. Let it suffice to say it included allegations of statements made by Dr. Baglow regarding justice Annis as well as several other, un-named judges which made the judge’s jaw to, quite literally, drop.
Next came Roger Smith’s opening statement.
He was extremely eloquent and, in my never-humble-opinion, totally brilliant.
First, he explained that while his legal name is Roger Smith, his birth name is Roger O’Donnell and he is widely known under that identity in professional circles, specifically in the weather forecasting circles and in Ireland.
Next he explained (to a ‘knowing’ and ‘understanding’ head-nodding of the judge) that by defining his client as ‘proudly left wing’ and the Free Dominion forum as ‘extremist right wing’, the plaintiff (through his judge) had made this a case that is NOT about defamation, but about one’s position on the political spectrum…and, in his opinion, the court of law is NOT the appropriate place to rule on which political opinions are permissible and which ones are not.
By the plaintiff’s lawyer’s opening statement alone, this case is not about defamation of an individual but about which political opinions are legally permissible and which political opinions are against the law…
He was, by far, the most eloquent of the bunch – so much so that I stopped taking notes and listened to him (regardless of the judge’s annoying interruptions) with ever growing respect and admiration (and I do NOT say this lightly!!!).
Next, the judge asked the CCLA lawyer, who did not have the ‘right’ to make an opening statement, to briefly sketch what the CCLA position is, which is what he did, in 5 points: all of which boiled down to ‘we want the law to evolve with freedom of speech in mind and something as ludicrous as this case ought to be tossed out of court…
Actually, it was quite brilliant: the young man (oh, I feel so old) argued their position logically and eloquently and really, really well, bringing in some of the phrases Dr. Baglow’s lawyer used and demonstrating just how ridiculous and absurd those arguments were, without needing to resort to any manipulative means or methods.
I think I love the CCLA!
OK – this is MY highly personal and admittedly prejudiced perception of what went on in court – please, do not treat is as anything more than my highly imperfect and admittedly ignorant opinion of the proceedings.
* I consider this position to be highly hypocritical because I cannot believe that an intelligent man, with a doctorate to boot, could possibly honestly think that using a colloquial definition of some words which are identical to a ‘legal jargon’ label with a very, very narrow and specific legal meaning, applying them in the colloquial sense to a person who glaringly does not qualify for the legal definition of that term, and then, wrapping himself in the tattered cloak of self righteousness, demanding the legal protections for that person for which he would only qualify had he satisfied the ‘legal definition’…and branding anyone who fails to buy in to his glaringly flawed argument as evil and unfeeling and somehow less than human. Sorry, the man I see in front of me seems much too intelligent not to grasp exactly what the difference between the colloquial and legal definition is, and how Omar Khadr does not qualify for the UN legal definition of ‘child soldier’. Sure, some of the ‘unwashed & uneducted masses’ could have fallen prey to such glaringly obvious propaganda, but not an intellectual with a doctorate!!! In the absence of stupidity/ignorance, the only other possible explanation, in my never-humble-opinion, is hypocrisy…for partisan political ends.
Posted in Aspergers, atheism, education, freedoms, human nature, language, politics, society, technology. Tags: civil liberties, defamation, Dr. Dawg, Fournier, Free Dominion, freedom, freedom of press, freedom of speech, lawfare, laws, lawsuit, Richard Warman, SLAPP suit, technology, war. Leave a Comment »
John Baglow vs Connie Fournier, Mark Fournier and Roger Smith: the ‘FULL TRIAL’, day 1, part 1
March 25, 2014 — xanthippa
Today, Monday, March 24th, 2014, was the first day in the ‘FULL TRIAL’.
* My computer has died and I am sending it in for service: this means I have borrowed equipment (my long suffering hubby’s tablet) and this is NOT the ‘ideal’ blogging medium under any plausible definition… so, instead of highlighting or bolding, I will have to capitalize for emphasis. I am not shouting, just emphasizing – my apologies.
* Due to this really, really slow machine with none of ‘my stuff’ on it (and my limited access to it, as I get to ‘share’), I don’t have the quotes/links to previous/cited cases and so on. I could get them, if I had the time online, but, currently, I do not. I may – time and technology permitting – re-visit this post and insert quotes and/or links at a later date when time and internet access are more under my control.
* Due to me being me – and a certified Aspie to boot – my observations are very, very limited. They are limited both by my lack of legal training (my area of education is Physics, not Law) and my linguistics (while I may have beecome fluent in 5 languages by the age of 13, I have never mastered ‘legaleese’). I cannot highlight it this mchine, so I cannot link: please check out ‘Asperger’s on Wikipedia to understand my limitations in abilities to ‘get’ some of the nuances of what went on: however, if you are ble to correct me or explain any of my observations more accurately than I, please, I TRULY BEG YOU: COMMENT!!! Help others get a better, more accurate picture of what is going on, I would much rather be corrected than go on in ignorance at any time, on any topic, so, please help me and anyone else reading this get a more insightful picture of the situation, if you possibly can.
TLDR: this will be a condensed, highly personal and highly imperfect account of my admittedly falliable observaions of this first day of the FULL TRIAL of this particular defamation case. If you can correct me and/or are willing to add to it, please, do! As I have borrowed and klunky tech, I cannot highlight or link or spellcheck – sorry…
Connie and Mark Fournier are the operators of Free Dominion, oldest and longest running political forum in Canada until it was sued into silence by Richard Warman.
Roger Smith, aka Peter O’Donnel (and not just online), is a member and frequent content supplier on Free Dominion and elsewhere on the blogosphere.
John Baglow, aka ‘Dr. Dawg’, aka ‘Ms. Mew’, is a guy who is a retired civil servant and unionist, a self-proclaimed leftist activist, an avid blogger, a Richard Warman groupie (imnho), and a guy with a pechant for black riding boots with the most adorable little silver trimmings.
Please note: all my own dealings with either John Baglow or ‘Dr. Dawg’ have been very amicable and positive. I have, in the past, asked him to get me in touch with another progressive blogger I have crossed swords with amicably in the past (I may hold many of the so called ‘progressive views’, but disagree with most of the so called ‘progressive metods’ of achieving them) and he had done so very quickly and courteously. I was seeking some help/publicity for some Tibetan refugees to Canada and Mr. Baglow has provided it and been very nice to me throughout – and, by extension, to them.
I have found him to be pleasant and charming when ever I have interacted with him. In fact, I find him quite charismatic.
And, I find it admirble that he has brought a young man I presume to be his step-son to the courthouse to observe civic cases: it is imperative that we get the next genetration interested in our civics, and I give praise to all who do. Kudos to him for that!!!
Yes, I bash when bashing is due, but I also give credit when that is due, too…so, please, don’t sue me!!!
This particuar ‘flame war’ started on the blog of Jay Curry and bled over to a number of online spots, including Free Dominion, where the 7-word phrase this courtcase is about was posted by Roger Smith. I am afraid to report what those 7 offending words were, because from the Richard Warman legal precedent, if I, as a private person, publish the ‘public’ documents of what had been filed at court, I, too, might become liable for ‘re-publishing’ those ‘defamatory’ words.
Yes, it is a matter of ‘public record’.
And, yes, it is ‘factual reporting’ of a ‘public document’….or what was said on public record in a court of law and thus apart of ‘public record’…
Afte the latest Warman vs. Free Dominion and John does decision, that is no defense: if the factual record is, at some later point in time, found to be defamatory, the factually reporting on it on the internet is considered to be ‘re-publishing the defmatory statements’ and it would open me to liability. So, my reporting of tody’s events will necessarily be highly constrained.
The subject of the ‘flame war’ was Omar Khadr, his inaccurate (as per UN’s definition) characterization by ‘Dr. Dawg’ as a ‘child soldier’ and the implications of willfully promulgating this demonstrably inaccurate legal description. Peter O’Donnel’s opinions complied with the UN’s legal definition (thus leaving Omar Khadr outside of the protections UN grants to ‘child soldiers’) while Dr. Dawg attempted to draw the moral high ground by inaccurately describing the Taliban terorist as a ‘child soldier (in the legal, not colloquial, definition) and then demanded the legal protections for Omar Khadr that are only available to UN-defined ‘child soldiers’….a demostrable and rather glaring hypocrisy which ‘Peter O’Donnel’ pounced and opined upon.
In many online spots.
On Free dominion, he opined so in 7 words which I dare not repeat.
These 7 words that ‘Peter O’Donnel’ posted – and which, he asserts, are his honestly held opinon, shared by some 8 million Canadians (according to his opening statement), are the ‘basis’ of this lawsuit.
It was originally dismissed as a frivolous and a vexatious lawsuit. (And, I reported on it – oh, how I wish I could link!!! The more I use it, the more I loathe this borrowe tech!!!)
Then, it was appealed – and several judges agreed that internet ‘flame wars’ were ‘legally uncharterred terrtory’ and that some ‘precednt-setting rulings’ need to be made here. Just so us iternet folks would know where the actual boundaries lie…you know, so we could stay within the lines, the lines are your friends…..(OK, old commercial – but applicable!)
Thus, we have a ‘FULL TRIAL’
TLDR: trial, ruling against Baglow (frivolous), but no legal rules for ‘internet flam war’ so FULL TRIAL to set ‘legal precedent’. Baglow: cute guy, charismatic and nice, wrong side of argument here.
OH, MY – OVER A K OF WORDS AND I HAVE NOT STARTED ON TODAY’S EVENTS YET…..deepest apologies, just trying to get the parameters in before I start today’s observations, as I honestly cannot afford to get sued…
These are the facts as posted outside the courtroom #24 at the Elgin St. Courthouse on the 24th of March, 2014:
Mr. John Baglow turned up as well groomed as ever: a dark suit, a blue-collar shirt and them cute riding boots with the adorable silver trimmings he has become so well known for. He knows what he looks good in and uses it well!
Connie Fournier wore a classy, slim-line dark skirt with a gray pattern, a pretty blouse with a multi-red abstract pattern and a red blazer that accented the blouse perfectly – with an understated, classy gold/gold-tone diamond/rhinestone necklace (sorry – I am not knowledge-able enough to tell the two apart…it was ‘understated’ and ‘classy’ at the same time and I wish I could pull a similar look off….Connie looked smart and classy and – well, we have words for women like that!!!).
Roger Smith wore a blue blazer and khakis – understated, yet elegant. With his silver-kissed hair, he was easily the most attractive person in the courtroom.
The charismatic Mark Fournier wore a tweed jacket and slacks and, despite his bigger-than-life persona, tried his best to stay in the background.
In addition to the people listed above, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association were interveners in this case – as friends of the court – on the side of the defendants. The lawyer sent to represent them was a young man named Steven Frankel – and while he had a wedding ring on the ring finger of his left hand, he looked younger than either of my sons. OK – I officially feel old now….but, when he spoke, he sounded really, really smart!
And, of course, the judge…
Madam Justice Polowin, J., presided over the case.
She looked sharp, with her pale hair cut short-ish, slicked back at the temples and wonderfully fluffy on top, she wore understated light stud earrings (pearls?) and her judge’s robes flowed playfully about her slight frame. She self-admitted to being a luddite (knowing how to send and receive emails – but nothing else on the internet) and asked for every bit to be explained, internet technology and jargon and culture included.
I see now that it is way late, and I plan to be back in court to observe tomorrow – so I must suspend my narrative here. Let me just state that, at the end of the day, Madam Justice Polowin stated (at the end of the day) that even though the trial had been scheduled for Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday, she sees no way they’ll get through it all (while doing a proper and thorough job of examining the underlying issues, as the appellate court had directed) by the end of this week and so participants ought to alter their travel plans accordingly…
MORE LATER!!!!!!
Posted in Aspergers, freedoms, human nature, politics, society, technology. Tags: ACLU, Aspergers, Canadian Civil Liberties Association, CCLU, civil liberties, defamation, Dr. Dawg, Fournier, Free Dominion, freedom of press, freedom of speech, internet, John Baglow, lawfare, lawsuit, Miss Mew, politics, Richard Warman, SLAPP suit, technology. 6 Comments »
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