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bilibili_data_72647293_BV1ya4y1J78B_p5_BV1ya4y1J78B_p5_m4-dialogue_1006158
[S1] ... totally changed me. And I realized that something really bad had happened. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And we were being t- betrayed, and it changed my life and got me into a lot of trouble, but I'm so glad. [S2] Yeah, you're glad. You wouldn't have done anything differently, right? [S1] No. [S2] No. And you did make an apology, but it- [S1] Yeah. [S2] ... I believe the apology was, was for specific things that you did. [S1] Just, yeah. [S2] But not for your overall. [S1] Right, right. [S2] You, you saved people's lives. [S1] I'm very grateful that I came to understand what was really happening. [S2] Mm-hmm.
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[S1] Isn't that awful? [S2] I mean, no. [S1] It makes you very foolish. [S2] Well. [S1] I've been under bombs. I've had the ground has shaken with bombs dropping. I don't get scared. I get emotional about the context maybe, but I don't, I don't get scared. [S2] Do you, there's a, there's a, something, I can't remember, the syndrome in war where people will be walking into war and be worried about the person next to them dying rather than- [S1] Oh, that's rough. [S2] ... themselves. [S1] No, I'm not that good a person.
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[S1] ... through our window and FBI would- [S2] It must have been terrifying. [S1] I don't, no, I didn't, I didn't get scared. My children did, though. Yeah. We used to have to have someone go out and turn the ignition rom- um, from a distance, turn the cars ignition on. [S2] Oh, wow. [S1] 'Cause people were being blown up in their cars in those days. [S2] My God. [S1] But, uh- [S2] And now you're-
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[S1] ... terrible. Terrible. I must be really strong, 'cause it didn't, you know, it didn't do me in, but for 20 years. [S2] And you never had any esophagus- [S1] No. [S2] ... problems at all? Yeah. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Were you, were you a smart person? [S1] Whatever that is. [S2] You probably were a smart person. [S1] 'Til I was 30. [S2] Wow. [S1] And I lived in France, so it was galois. [S2] Oh, my God, galois. [S1] Yeah. [S2] That's what I spoke when I was young. I spoke galois, uh, uh- [S1] Occitan. [S2] We said it together. [S1] Occitan.
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[S1] She turned. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I even named a horse She-tun. [S2] You did? [S1] Yeah. [S2] You know, when people play characters like Eugene, found a played, uh, uh, Nancy Reagan, did you find that you had to, because you were not politically on the side of Nancy Reagan. [S1] No, I wasn't. [S2] Uh, but you played her brilliantly, so. [S1] Well, thank you. [S2] You must have found something in Nancy- [S1] I did. [S2] ... that you liked. [S1] I did. The loyalty to the husband- [S2] It was wonderful.
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[S1] How she fought for his legacy. [S2] Yeah. Wasn't that wonderful? [S1] And, um, and I figured she was probably a pretty tortured person. [S2] Uh-huh. [S1] I read her daughter's book and everything, and I, I found it was- [S2] Did you know, uh, Patty, did you know? [S1] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I found it easy to find compassion for Nancy Reagan. Yeah. [S2] I don't know what her relationship was with her, with her daughter and son. [S1] Different.
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[S1] With those incredible, beautiful- [S2] Blue eyes. [S1] ... blue eyes and just this evil, oh. [S2] And he didn't want to do it. It, he- [S1] Oh, really? [S2] He turned it down and turned it down. [S1] Wow. [S2] He had to be persuaded to do it. He didn't want to play a bad guy. [S1] Really? [S2] And it's one of his best movies. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] God, it was great. When he, who was it that he kicked the, uh, was, um, was, uh- [S2] Kicked a boy. We've- [S1] It was Charles Bronson. As a boy, he, yes, he- [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] ... he killed his father and father- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... boy. [S2] I'm four years older than my dad was when he died.
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[S1] Are your parents alive? [S2] I always have, I always have this, this, uh, notion because when I was young, my grandfather, I remember he was 70 and he would shuffle around and I think he even had a cane and I, I always wondered, I wondered since then, since I see people now that are 70, I go, "Was he just trying to act like he, what he thought a 70-year-old should act like?" Do you know what I mean? [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] And so you are older than your father was in On Golden Pond. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Incredible.
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[S1] Isn't that amazing? [S2] Yeah, it's hard to believe. [S1] Yeah. [S2] It's hard to believe. [S1] Health is important. [S2] Yeah. Do you still have that hat that he wore in that?
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[S1] And watch your father at several different ages, uh, displaying several different emotions. It must be a, a gift. [S2] It is. It's a wonderful, it's a wonderful gift. I'm very grateful for that. [S1] And have you ever, if you miss your father, just said, you know, I'm gonna put him on the screening room here, the mansion.
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[S1] No, I've never done that. I've see, I, occasionally I, 'cause I love Turner Classic movies. [S2] Yes, I do too. [S1] It's a gift that Ted gave us all. So I sometimes watch my dad on Turner Classic movies, but I, I don't miss my dad 'cause I feel he's with me all the time. Yeah. [S2] You're trying to be a dog everywhere. [S1] I like... [S2] Oh. [S1] She's cold.
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[S1] No, no, I mean, I- [S2] Do I take my dog everywhere? Well, not- [S1] ... can. Not when I travel so much, otherwise- [S2] Oh. [S1] ... she has been all around the country in the, and she's been to France and Spain and Italy and Finland. [S2] Uh-huh. She must have some great memories. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] Okay. Isn't it an interesting memories, Jane? We go to a place
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[S1] ... to get memories. Like we say, "I'm going to go to France and I'm going to come back with the best memories." Like we're going to a place in a f- in the future in order to collect the past. [S2] Yeah, that's weird. [S1] Isn't that odd? [S2] Yes. [S1] Let me ask you this. If I told you, you can go, uh, to your, the greatest island in the world and have the greatest two weeks of your life, but you would not remember a moment of it, would you take me up on that? [S2] Mm-hmm. No.
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[S1] This is how, this is my pickup line for ladies, you know? And it's never worked once. [S2] [LAUGHS] Well, in- [S1] But I'll see a lady at a bar, she'll be drinking. And you know how ladies, they drink, uh, with, uh, umbrellas and stuff. So, uh, I'll wait till that, and then I'll, I'll sidle up to her, and I'll whisper in her ear, I'll say, "I can get us a bottle." [S2] [LAUGHS] Well, I, I, yeah, I can understand why that wouldn't work. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Oh. [S2] Here's- [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Here's where we do the jokes. These are jokes that, uh, we just write them out on blue cards. And then what we do is we say the jokes. [S1] Okay. [S2] So I'll, I'll do one just so you get the idea. I like my movies like I like my pasta. Meatballs too. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Okay, go. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] My favorite NCAA teams all happen to be colors. Auburn, Navy, Sienna, and hot bubblegum pink. [S2] Oh, they are very good, yes. They... [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Do you want to say it again? [S1] No. [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] Oh, here's something interesting. You don't have to hold on to that. [S1] I can't... I'm just trying to believe that somebody actually wrote that as a t- [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Bad. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Wait, you know, when I think Billy Bob, I'm trying to think of a story. Billy Bob told me one time about, uh, it wasn't Wheeler-Jennings. It was, um, it was Merle Haggard. [S1] Yeah. [S2] I hope I get this right. If I don't just edit it out, I'm gonna make it worse. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] He said, he was talking to Merle Haggard one time, and Merle was going through, you know, he was consuming a lot of stuff. [S1] Yeah. [S2] But he was trying to get straight, and he was standing outside his trailer, and Billy Bob says to him, "Merle, how you doing?" They're talking. "Well, how you doing?" He says, "You know,
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[S1] And it was true. He lived two farms down from us, and we, you could go there in the middle of the night, the light would be on in the kitchen, and he'd be in the living room of the transistor radio in his, uh, shorts and under shirt with a, a little whiskey. [S2] Oh, wow. [S1] But not, never, never, uh, it wasn't a social drink. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] I met Merle Haggard. Uh, the cool thing about LA is nobody likes country music, so you can go and see, like, Chris Christopherson with 200 people, you know? So I saw Merle Haggard. So the girl that was running the, the, the, the joint, uh, she goes, "Oh, yeah." I go, "Well, do you think there's any chance I, I could meet Merle Haggard?" She goes, "He'd love to meet you." I go, "He? Pardon? I don't think so." You know? [S2] Yeah. [S1] But I'd love to meet him, you know? [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I had this story from when I was a kid with my dad. I wanted to tell Merle Haggard. So, uh, she goes, "He, oh, he'd love
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[S1] Van Morrison. [S2] Oh! [S1] Yeah, kind of. I mean, I- [S2] Wow. [S1] I had dinner with him a couple times and stuff and I just- [S2] Through Bill Murray. [S1] No, just a, just a, I don't know how, actually, now that I think about it. I, I'm a gigantic Van, Van the Man fan.
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[S1] No, no. But I think maybe, maybe for its time or something that I've, that's- [S2] Oh, no, the martial arts. [S1] ... lost on me. That's all. I know. People tell me that the, that those other guys are the greatest guys in the world, the Three Stooges. I didn't understand the principle- [S2] No, I never,
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[S1] No. [S2] I understand the person, but- [S1] I never, no, I never got, I never got the Three Stooges. When I was a kid, they never, ever, they have made all my friends laugh, they never made me laugh. [S2] Yeah. [S1] But then, but one great thing about the Three Stooges, though, however, which I do love to watch right now, the, every other episode, there would be the uptight, um,
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[S1] You know, woman who had a bad English accent. And she just witnessed, like, guys smack each other in each other's eyes and physically abuse one another. And then they'd say, "Now, I'm gone. You be careful to stay away from my daughters." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And then they'd do these insane things, and then she just waited for her line. "I'll be back in two days." [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] But that guy's a, that guy's a great singer, Thomas. [S2] Yeah, he is. [S1] 'Cause I only listen to country music. You know how they, you know- [S2] Really? So new country- [S1] You know some people love every music- [S2] Yeah, yeah. You don't, really. [S1] I like, uh, country. I don't like that new, uh, country. I like Thomas Rhett. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Uh, but I like- [S2] You like old school country. [S1] I like outlaw country. [S2] I know. Outlaw country is really- [S1] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [S2] Yeah, it is. [S1] Billy Joe Shaver. [S2] Oh, Billy Joseph. Excellent. He's a great writer too. [S1] You know Billy Joe Shaver? [S2] I don't know him personally, but I'm a fan. [S1] Yeah, man, man. [S2] It's his favorite. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Wait, Shaver did, uh,
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[S1] You were a comment. That's how I know you. [S2] I know. [S1] That's the only way I know you. You were saying, like, you were flying in somewhere in Newark or something, and the guy comes on, the, uh, the pilot, you know the joke? [S2] Yeah. [S1] I think you thought, okay, I'll say what I think it is. [S2] Okay. [S1] This is what I think it is. Um,
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[S1] Very good. [S2] But you are from Pittsburgh, right? [S1] Yeah. Outside of Pittsburgh. [S2] Another joke. And I get in trouble for this, 'cause when I, uh, went to Saturday Night Live, uh, John Levitz came and hosted, I'm like, "Why are you stealing Michael Keaton's flit?" Right? [S1] Yeah. [S2] And he's like, "I didn't steal, I didn't steal, everybody says that." And I'm like, "Well, if everybody says it, you stole it." [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] You know?
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[S1] But Cagney being white heat and stuff. [S2] And they always gave it away. They tipped it. [S1] Yeah, they gave it away. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah. They gave away their lying. [S2] Yeah. Yeah. I never used the 38. Who said anything about a 38, Johnny? Uh, well, I read about it in the paper. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Yeah, sure, that's it. I, I read about it in the papers, the paper, and I read about it. Yeah, yeah, sure. That's it. I read about it. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Something like that.
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[S1] I liked how- [S2] We'd hang around. [S1] ... in film noir, they had their, their, their, there, it was a parallel universe of stars. It'd be like Robert Ryan, and, you know, sometimes you'd have Robert Mitchum, or, uh, what was, what's the movie I'm thinking with Robert Mitchum? [S2] Out of the Past? [S1] Out of the Past, yeah. [S2] Oh. [S1] You'd have Robert Mitchum or Kirk Douglas, but usually- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... it was a, it was a lower kind of people. You know, it'd be like gun craze. [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] You know what I mean? [S2] Also really good, I, and, and- [S1] I imagine Tarantino probably looked-
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[S1] ... Red, was it Red River, with John Wayne and Montgomery Clift and this other guy. And John Wayne's way, he's inside, and they're outside, right? And, uh, uh, the one guy goes up to Montgomery Clift, he goes, and Montgomery Clift goes, "Hey, I like your gun." He goes, "Yeah, you like guns?" He goes, "Yeah, I like guns." He goes, "You like women? You like girls?" "Yeah, I like girls." He goes, "Which you like better, guns or girls?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] He goes,
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[S1] Since coincidental. And you know, this is a thing that you and I have in common. Um, one, the two best stand-ups that ever lived, and the other, we're both half Scottish and half Irish. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Isn't that interesting?
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[S1] And I guess it was good, 'cause these other guys would've just had one joint. [S2] Yeah. [S1] You know, and- [S2] Yeah. Do you, were you around out here, this is what I wanted to ask you earlier. [S1] Yeah. [S2] So I'm gonna ask you now. Remember the Palomino Club? Were you around- [S1] Yeah. [S2] Really? [S1] Yeah. [S2] How, did you ever go out and see, I saw Jerry Lee Lewis there one time, and I- [S1] Oh. [S2] I tried to get on stage at the Palomino. [S1] Oh, they would never have- [S2] No. [S1] Why would they like- [S2] I stood in there.
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[S1] So I went out one afternoon, and I think I had to get a bus out there. And I had to go over, and I talked to this guy. They wouldn't even talk to me. They'd walk right by me. And the owner was sitting there just kind of like, and he knew. And I had to introduce myself and say, you know, I was wondering if I, you know. [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] I wonder if I could get up on stage some evening. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Uh, so, uh, no, never even looked at me, never even thought about it, never even considered it. But it was a legendary place. [S2] Oh, incredible. [S1] Can you imagine how badly I would've died? [S2] Yeah, you would've done well. [S1] Oh.
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[S1] country. [S2] At that time. [S1] Billy Joe Shaver, right? [S2] Yeah. [S1] Who I love. He's actually my best friend. But, uh- [S2] Is that true? Do you know him? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Really? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I know him very well. But every time he comes here, he's like- [S2] He's a very Christian dude, isn't he? [S1] Yeah, he's very Christian. [S2] Yeah. [S1] He goes there.
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[S1] Oh, man. [S2] My dad, I remember when I was young, he took me to see, uh, George Jones. And he, he, my dad had seen George Jones, like, 10 times. And he said, sometimes his, uh, his show close, stops early. And he goes, "The way you can tell 'cause he'd been drinking." [S1] Yeah. [S2] And he always ends with, um, "You stopped loving her today." [S1] Yeah. [S2] You know, 'cause that's his big ending. [S1] Right. [S2] So he goes, "Sometimes
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[S1] Oh, yeah, yeah. It was great Fraser. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Well, anyway, 20- [S2] Sinatra. [S1] Yeah, 100%, but it was also great. [S2] I understand. [S1] I had an argument, not an argument, um, the wrestling match. No. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS] Disagreement. [S2] Yeah. [S1] With Alejandro Inonitut, the guy directed me in Burment. [S2] Mm.
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[S1] He's really into music and sometimes I, we, we probably, uh, uh, clash in our taste, but I was saying, I said, "You know who, who actually is a great, great musician is, uh, Willie Nelson." People always think he's this country guy, which he is, but he's a tremendous... [S2] His voice is... [S1] Yeah, and where he drops in... [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... and where he kinda, you know, drops line, you think, "Wait a minute, he's coming up," and then he just nails it. He's also an excellent guitar player. [S2] And at his age to do that.
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[S1] Having said that, oddly enough, are we back? [S2] Yes. [S1] Hey, we're back with the, uh, with the fantastic Michael Keaton. So, you know, sometimes people come out and they're not as funny as you are, so we write their jokes so they can say jokes. [S2] Oh, okay. [S1] You know, but I thought this would be cool for you 'cause it's the greatest joke teller ever, maybe, right? Okay, so here you go, Michael. Don't ever read it ahead, though. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] This is what we're going to do. We're going to do. I'm going to give you- [S2] That was strong. [S1] This is strong. [S2] Okay, all right. [S1] I would not lead you down a path astray. So I'm going to give you the strongest joke. Uh, I'll do one so it'll, it'll be a palette. Okay. When Mozart would sit down to compose, [CLEARS THROAT] this is, this would be good for your son. [S2] Okay. [S1] When Mozart would sit down to compose a new piano concerto- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... he'd first pause, close his eyes, and say to himself,
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[S1] I can't count all my friends, I can't count all my fingers either. [S2] [LAUGHS] Where are your fingers, anyway? [S1] I got these locked off at a, at a sawmill accident. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I had to grab 'em, picked 'em up, and I just read a, a, a Japanese thing about they, they had just sold these fingers back on the filler.
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[S1] And I jumped in my pickup, went over to the doctor. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And, and the girl that worked there, she was beautiful, man. And, I mean, she came out and she, I mean, spawned me around, even in the shape I was in. And, uh, she said, "Mr. Billy, can I have some fingers?" And I said, "Say what?" She said, "Can I have them fingers?" I said, "Well,
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[S1] ... fair question, what you gonna do with it? She says, "I'm gonna put 'em in a jar and I'll keep 'em 'till the day I die." Anyhow, she, I, I put out a word trying to get it, but I'll never get them fingers back. [S2] Maybe you will. Social media, the way it is nowadays. [S1] I doubt it. I don't know. This is a big show, isn't it? [S2] Yeah, we're gonna put that out. [S1] Yeah, we'll, we'll do it. [S2] We'll put that out. [S1] Put that out, man. [S2] On the social media. [S1] Yeah, I want my fingers back. [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] Well, there's going to be something special. My guest on this program is a musical hero of mine, the founding father of Outlaw Country, and my best friend. [S2] Yes. [S1] Bill Joe Shaver.
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[S1] So I asked a friend of yours, Robert Duvall. [S2] Oh, my goodness. [S1] And I consider Robert Duvall the best actor in the entire country. [S2] Well, he could, he is. [S1] And so I asked him straight out, 'cause my theory is- [S2] But you know what actors are like. [S1] My theory is that if you're the best, you know you're the best. So I asked him straight out, "Are you the best?" And- [S2] He said- [S1] He didn't deny it, let's put it that way. You know what I mean? [S2] You know, actors are just big liars. [S1] Well, I guess you're right. [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] He's a good liar, though. [S2] He's very good, yeah. [S1] He's good-ish. [S2] And, uh, so I also think you're the natural heir to, uh, to, uh, Hank Williams. You're a singer-songwriter. [S1] He was in Waco once. I don't think he knew my mother. [S2] Oh, not the na- Maybe not the natural heir. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] But you're the musical heir to Hank Williams, in my mind. And, uh- [S2] That's, that's good. [S1] This is the way I think of it. It's the same way I think of comedians, because- [S2] It'll work. [S1] ... you have comic actors, and then you have writers, and then you have stand-up comedians. The stand-up comedians are writers and- [S2] What's that? [S1] He's the manager of the comedy store.
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[S1] Give him a big hand. [S2] Now, my question to you is this. Do you agree with that, that you're the best? 'Cause I always think somebody is the best and always will be the best. [S1] I'm as good as I can be, yeah. [S2] Good as you can be, but- [S1] Yeah. [S2] ... do you see anybody who has any better- [S1] I'm still, still, I'm still alive. [S2] That's true. [S1] Well, and everybody else is too, so- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... who knows, you know? When I cash in, I won't know anyway, so what the hell?
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[S1] What did you think of an outhouse? 'Cause that's what I remember as the worst thing about growing up on a farm. [S2] Yeah, well, uh- [S1] Goddamn outhouse. [S2] Yeah. [S1] It's the most terrifying place in the fucking world for a child. [S2] Well, yeah, for a child. [S1] Middle of the night, spiders- [S2] You could drop in that hole. [S1] ... dropping that fucking hole. [S2] Yeah, you could. [S1] I remember my father, you know, we had the outhouse and so you'd, there was two hole, I don't know why, no two people would never- [S2] I've seen two hole- you had a two hole- [S1] Yeah, but two people would never went-
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[S1] So my brother and I would pull out this big- [S2] I've never, I've never really thought of that. [S1] My, my brother and I would pull out this big trough of shit, human shit, and then we would have to take my, my father would make us take it way out to the North 40 where we'd bury it, and then my brother and I go, "Oh, God, this is the worst." And my father would go, "If that's the worst goddamn thing you do in your life, be happy." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And it was. [S2] [LAUGHS] That's why you're so happy. [S1] [LAUGHS] There is something to that, though. [S2] I, I, you know what? You nailed it, man. [S1] Sorry.
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[S1] Do you think you'll write a song now, the old troph of shit? [S2] No, I wrote all I want to about outhouses. I, no. [S1] You wrote all your outhouse so- songs? [S2] Well, I- [S1] The entire- [S2] I wrote, I threw a few in there, but that's it. [S1] Ugh. When did you break in, uh, in country music? When did you- [S2] When did I break? I broke, I broke, I broke a lot. [S1] It was an insane, uh- [S2] I'm broke now. [S1] It was an insane success before Donkey Kong Heroes came out.
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[S1] So- [S2] Well, I must have wrote it when I was... Well, I wrote it way back in when I was in my late 20s. [S1] When you were in your late 20s. [S2] And I came up there and I went to Charlie Lueven. And Charlie Lueven, I don't know if you ever heard of him, but- [S1] Yeah, sure I have. [S2] But he says, uh, he, he, he listened to them songs and he said, "God," he said, "these are, these are the worst damn songs I've ever heard or the best." And I said, he said, "But what was you doing before you come up here, son?" [S1] Yeah. [S2] I said, "Well, I was driving a truck last," he said, "Why don't you go back and get that job?" [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Is that all right? We were talking about watermelon. [S2] Now, when Billy Joe was born- [S1] Oh, it's coming up. [S2] And then the year- [S1] I know the watermelon thing's coming up. [S2] How'd you tell him, Bill? [S1] I knew it'd bite me on the ass one of these days. [S2] No, I wasn't gonna bring it up, but before the show, we were discussing upstairs, and Billy Joe said that he's fucked a few watermelon in his time. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Well, yeah, Terry, you know, you ain't gonna... It's Saturday night. I mean, what are you gonna do? [S2] It's Saturday night. It wasn't like it was Thursday. [S1] But, you know, if somebody catch you out with a, with an ugly one, they're gonna tell it all over town. [S2] Uh, prom night is magical. [S1] Shit. They wouldn't, they didn't let us dance. [S2] They didn't let you dance for prom night? [S1] In eighth grade, you know. But, uh, the, the, the, they, they didn't have dances at the school I went to.
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[S1] I'm so full of crap, man. [S2] Oh, Honky Tonk Hero, isn't it? Yeah. Honky Tonk Hero, Bill J. Schaber. That's such an awesome picture. That's from- [S1] Oh, it is.
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[S1] Yeah, it is. Chris, Chris Thompson produced an album, uh, Old Five and Diamonds. [S2] Yeah. [S1] He heard me one night when I was fixing to leave Nashville. I was out at Bobby Bear's house, and I'm trying to get out the door, and they, he made me sit back down. Bobby said, "Sit back down." "Yeah," he said, "Play me that song you just wrote today." And I said, "All right." So I did, uh, uh, Christian Soldier. And, uh, and he said, "I'm gonna put that on my album. I'm gonna record it."
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[S1] And I thought he was fucking with me, you know. I really did. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I honestly thought he was, and I jumped in my pickup. I had a pickup by then. I went back to Texas and went to, I think I went to washing dishes again. But anyway, oh, it took Bobby about several months to track me down, but he finally tracked me down and said, "Come on back." I said, "Chris recorded that song." I said, "Really?" And, and I go back, and Bobby has put good in front of it and took half the song. [S2] God.
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[S1] It, it, it's unbelievably right. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Oh, it upset me so bad. And I thought, well, you know, just a little bit of it's good. [S2] Yeah. [S1] You know, better than nothing. But, but that's kind of the way Nashville did. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] When I first came here, he told me, he said, "You have to," Bobby said, "You have to give me half of the song, and you have to, you have," and the publishing is mine. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And you give me half writer." And I said, "No." [S2] Wow. [S1] And I had such good songs, he couldn't say no. He- [S2] Uh-huh. [S1] He, he knew it was good.
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[S1] He's the only one, really, that knew I had good songs. [S2] Hey, you remember that song, uh, "Cocaine Blues"? [S1] Yes, I do. [S2] Yeah. You like that song? [S1] Yeah, I liked it. [S2] It's a great opening line, 'cause it's so fat. And they're like, you know, "I shot... I took..." First of all, he says that he took a shot of cocaine. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] And I don't know what that meant. Like, can you inject cocaine? [S1] Oh, yeah, you can inject peanut butter if you want to.
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[S1] Bill and Joe, let me ask you this. [S2] What is? [S1] I remember them talking about you back in the old days, and they'd say you'd be on the bus, you know, and it'd be kind of that rat pack back then, you know? Uh, Wayland and- [S2] Yeah. [S1] Uh, Willie. [S2] Yeah, there was a bunch of us. [S1] Johnny Cash, I don't know if Johnny Cash was in it, but, uh, but you'd be the guy that if there was ever a drug- [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] You'd be almost like that Mikey- [S2] I know where you're going with this. [S1] ... Mikey from that cereal commercial. Mikey will try it, you know? [S2] [LAUGHS] Yeah, right. [S1] I was kinda like, "Bill and Joe will try it." [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] When they reference going to the spirit land. [S2] Well, I guarantee you it happens. It does happen. [S1] What's your spirit animal? [S2] My spirit animal? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Watermelon. [S1] Watermelon? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Hey, what about, remember when I, uh, when I, uh, said that you should change a word in your song and you almost beat the shit out of me? [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Did you ever hear that last song that, uh, Glen Campbell did, though? About, called, uh, "I Won't Miss You Anymore." Oh, yeah. [S2] That sound like a good one. [S1] But it was about him having Alzheimer's. So, so it was about- [S2] Oh, man. [S1] When the Alzheimer's finally hits, I won't even know who you are. [S2] Oh, Jesus. [S1] I won't miss you. I won't love you. [S2] Oh, man. That's- [S1] Very powerful, man. [S2] It was a terrible song. [S1] It didn't win. It was- [S2] I've been thinking about that lately myself. [S1] About having dementia? [S2] Oh, yeah, having that. Yeah, 'cause I keep forgetting stuff. [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] Especially you. [S2] You. [S1] I keep trying. We try. We try. Don't we try? [S2] Force them in? Absolutely. [S1] Who are your country heroes? When you were growing up. [S2] When I was growing up? [S1] Yeah. When you were a boy. Well, Hank Williams, obviously. [S2] I liked, uh, uh, Jimmy Rogers better than anybody. [S1] Oh, you did? [S2] Yeah, Hank did too. [S1] Yeah, yeah. [S2] You could tell Hank got a lot of this stuff from Jimmy. [S1] Well, he got that simplicity, uh- [S2] Yeah, you know, simplicity
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[S1] Oh, man, come on, now. [S2] Now, uh, but that is what I like. Now, do you find, because I find your songs are so, uh, pithy, you know, so, uh, so few words, but so much in those few words. [S1] Yeah, I work on that, yeah. [S2] Do you work on it by constantly rewriting, cutting out words, cutting- [S1] Not really, I, I got it mastered, and I, I pretty much do it the way I talk. [S2] Because, uh, Hemingway said that he, uh, wrote
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[S1] Like he spoke. And he said if the, uh, if- [S2] Well, I put it mostly, yeah. [S1] If the, if the, it was his fault if the reader didn't understand a word. And he said, F. Scott Fitzgerald, he said he has all those 50, you know, 50 cent words and he goes, "I know 'em too, I just don't use 'em." [S2] Oh, you can't use 'em because nobody- [S1] No, I understand. [S2] ... There's so many people get cut out. [S1] Right. [S2] You know, like somebody working on a, anything. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Anybody working with their hands. [S1] Sure. [S2] They can't understand that crap. [S1] Yeah, yeah. [S2] And
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[S1] And you know what's bothering me? [S2] Only word I ever heard in any of his songs that I didn't understand was the word "plu-perfect." I didn't know what that meant. [S1] Yeah, "plu-perfect" is a great word. [S2] In Chukwukaw, I, I never heard that word before. [S1] That's a, a, I got that from, uh, Darryl Royal, uh, coach of Texas when they were winning. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And, uh, uh, football coach. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And, and he told me about, about the thing, "plu-perfect."
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[S1] And I was writing a song. Well, I, I finally, I wrote a song later on called, uh, "I'm Just an Old Chunk of Coal, But I'm a Diamond Some Day." [S2] Yeah. [S1] It's supposed to be a lump of coal, but- [S2] Everybody says lump of coal, but I like chunk. [S1] Yeah, but chunk, chunk sounds better. [S2] It does. More masculine or something. [S1] Down in Texas, they say chunk. Give me a chunk of that cake or- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... a pie or something like that. [S2] Morsel of coal. [S1] Uh, yeah. [S2] Chunk. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Chunk. [S1] A chunk of- [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] You, I like Tanya Tucker. You ever, you like her? [S2] Tanya? Uh, yeah, she's sweet. [S1] 'Cause that dealt a- [S2] Yeah, bullshit, she ain't sweet either. She's made her my girl. [S1] That's what, that's what Glen Campbell said about her. [S2] I got, I got that, uh- [S1] You ever meet Glen Campbell? [S2] Of course I met Glen- [S1] I didn't know. Yeah. [S2] He was looking for Tanya. [S1] Looking for-
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[S1] So, uh, uh, for those th- who don't understand or, uh, know country music as, uh, well as other people, you come to Nashville, you get together with Waylon Jennings, you make the greatest country, uh, album that's ever been, Honky Tonk Heroes, then, mysteriously, you and Waylon never work together again. [S2] Well, Waylon got mad at me about that write-up, and he said I'll never do another one. [S1] So, so there was a write-up in the Rolling Stone. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And what did they-
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[S1] they just said, uh, the real hero of Honky Tonk Heroes is Billy Joe Shaver. And I had nothing to do with it. [S2] Yeah, of course. [S1] And, uh, and, and he, I don't know why, but he said, "I'll never do another one of your songs." He said, "You get all the credit and I don't get shit." And I said, "Well, you know- [S2] Wayland Jennings didn't get anything from that? [S1] Bullshit. He got- [S2] That's crazy. [S1] He made him. [S2] Yeah. [S1] He became me, really, is what happened. [S2] Yeah. [S1] He kinda, he kinda jumped from them, the clothes he was wearing into the, some bracelets that he brings. [S2] Yeah, yeah.
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[S1] ... and stuff and, but, uh, and, uh- [S2] Boy, imagine if you guys had just kept collaborating. My God. [S1] Well, we didn't collaborate, we just- [S2] Well, I mean, you write, he's there.
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[S1] I did one, one song that I did, uh, on You Ask Me To. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Uh, and he, he wanted a song on that album. He said, "I want a song with my name on it." And I said, "Okay." So I was writing on this song called Just Because You Asked Me To. I went ahead and sang him what I had of the song, and I said, "Here's this," and I kind of fed him the words. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And he called on to it, and he got it, and, and it's a great song. And then, uh,
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[S1] He, he put it out on the album, and then, and Elvis Presley comes along, and he, he decides he wants to do the song. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And Waylon didn't tell me about it. And, and him and Elvis kinda had a deal going there. And a lot of these records that you'll see out with Elvis, they'll have the writer of the song is, is, uh, Waylon Jennings. [S2] Oh, is that right? [S1] And I never got paid shit on that. [S2] Oh, yeah. [S1] And he's bound to made a lot of money.
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[S1] That's horrible. [S2] And Bobby Bear was kinda in on it too. [S1] Cut throat. [S2] It, well, you know, nobody really took me serious. They just thought I stumbled onto this shit, I guess. [S1] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [S2] I, I guess they thought, no, they knew me, they knew I didn't give a damn about nothing. I really didn't. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And, uh, I, I just didn't care about money that much. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And my family had to suffer on account of it, but I, I, uh, I just didn't care that much, but I was too busy writing.
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[S1] Yeah, I mean, you never struck me as the type that would, I don't know. [S2] No, I can't. [S1] I'd play the game or- [S2] I don't, I won't do that 'cause you, I'd lose, I was in danger of losing my gift. If I lose my gift, see, that's why I'm still writing good because I don't do that. [S1] Right, right. [S2] I ain't gonna ever do that.
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[S1] It was a heartbreaking song in your last album that you performed with Willie, uh, "It's Hard to Be an Outlaw When You're Not Wanted Anymore." [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] To me, that was really sad. [S2] That's a good song. [S1] 'Cause it, I mean, you're ob- you yourself are obsolete in the song. [S2] Oh, I just, I just made everybody nice and mad at me. [S1] What's that?
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[S1] I made everybody in Nashville really mad at it. [S2] With, with that song? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Well, because you were cutting down the, the modern- [S1] Yeah. [S2] ... music. But that, that's, if you took somebody from the past and put them in today and showed them and, and played that music, they'd never say that was country music. It doesn't sound anything like country music. [S1] No, it's not. [S2] Talk about modern country music. [S1] It's, it's something else. I don't know what it is. [S2] Yeah. I guess it's pop or- [S1] It's, it's Billy Joe music. [S2] Yeah. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] Oh, that's good. [S1] That's good. [S2] Yeah, I like that. [S1] Good for me, yeah. [S2] All right, we're back with Billy Joe Shaver. Now, this is the part of the show, Billy Joe, where we read jokes. [S1] I'm not a slobbering again. [S2] No, you're not, so- [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] We read jokes off blue cards. [S1] Okey-dokey. [S2] So you wanna start? [S1] Why not? [S2] Why not? Here's a joke. [S1] Okay. [S2] You can read that. [S1] I don't fat shame women because you can't judge a book by its cover. Of course, it's too damn thick, nobody's gonna read it. [LAUGHS]
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[S1] But relax, you got a five head. [S2] Yeah. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] You got a five heads. [S1] Hey, it's funny and accurate. [S2] Hey. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] I'll give you the last one. Are you ready? [S1] Uh, I never was, but yeah. [S2] Now, first of all, let me say, this has been a real, a real two-holer of an interview. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] And give him a big hand, Billy Joe Shaver. [S1] [APPLAUSE] [S2] Billy, Billy Joe. [S1] That's a mystery, man. It's a mystery. [S2] Billy Joe will be doing the last joke.
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[S1] Mr. Customer, the next projection starts in 18 minutes if you'd like to wait. [S2] That device is still broken. There's nothing to see. [S1] When you talk about that device, are you referring to Miss Yina? [S2] Yeah, I am. [S1] Well, our Miss Yina is out of order. But if you'd like to wait for- Pair should be done soon. Then you can see the starry sky. [S2] Sorry to disappoint you, but I hate waiting.
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[S1] Good morning, Mr. Customer. Did you sleep well? [S2] Were you trying to talk to me? [S1] Yes. [S2] Sorry, I was dreaming. [S1] Oh, that's wonderful to hear. Were you having a pleasant dream? [S2] Nope. [S1] Robots are incapable of that, so the idea has always been fascinating to me. To be perfectly honest with you, I long to know what it's like to have them. [S2] Most of them aren't worth longing for. Dreaming's kind of overrated. [S1] Is that really true?
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[S1] So then, what you're saying is, the projection may not be salvageable at all. [S2] Listen closely to what I'm about to say. [S1] Yes. [S2] Continue with your part of the projection. Your voice will be enough. [S1] Forgive my ignorance, sir, but I don't quite understand what you mean. [S2] Keep narrating, just like you would. I don't actually need the projector. I just want to hear you tell the story. Do you think you can?
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[S1] In my desperate moments. Not in the way that you mean, though. Speaking of which, you never finish telling me what you'd ask your guide for. [S2] Yes, I would like to tell you. [S1] Well, out with it, then.
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[S1] It's enough though, for one message. Will you record it with me? A video, so we can commemorate your visit. Because you might be my last customer. [S2] [LAUGHS] Listen very carefully. [S1] Yes. [S2] I haven't been honest with you. I came so that I could take you back with me.
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[S1] Look exactly like the photograph that I had fallen in love with. [S2] It was disappointing. [S1] It was not disappointing. [S2] A little bit. [S1] It was, it was, um, uh, devastating. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] So, um, I asked Naomi if she could come back. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Uh, with some makeup on, and then she did, and we talked some more, and like this, uh, Naomi, uh, was friends with my assistant's son, and they were talking and jabbering away, and then I see, um,
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[S1] We gave the pilot, not yet finished, over to ABC Television. And the executive in charge watched this pilot at 6 o'clock in the morning, standing up on the phone, drinking coffee with the thing on the TV across the room, and he didn't like it. So- [S2] On the phone? [S1] Uh, making phone calls, you know, like an executive, they do.
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[S1] and, uh, see if it could get money to make it a feature. A thing started that took a year. I mean, it was, uh, a long time. [S2] A year and a half. [S1] Maybe
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[S1] Oh my God, I get the whole part. I know, I know this woman. I know what to do and I have to do this. Um, well, already I had this, so, um, it was, uh, it was obviously that audition scene. [S2] Now, if I tell what happened, they'll arrest you and put you in jail, so get out of here before... Before what? Before I kill you. [S1] Then they'd put you in jail.
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[S1] ... get to the place, um, he did this, that fabulous shot of the fireplace wall that was- [S2] Well, that would have been in there anyway. [S1] Oh, would it? Okay. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I remember saying, you know, as my hands down the pants, aware of, you know, 35 people outside of the black tent, um, I remember saying, "David, I can't do this. I can't do it." And being mad at him for making me do it. And, um, and he, he just said,
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[S1] Piano is on the edge of the frame. Isabella is in the center. Angelo senses where the camera is and he starts scooting closer and clo- off, almost off the piano bench to get in the shot. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So once you get that idea about Angelo, um, he's, um, he's, uh, kind of shameless. Uh, I always say, you know, [LAUGHS] um,
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[S1] You never know. It's, it's fate plays such a role. And all these years, Naomi's, um, going along with the stuff, but never gets a green light. And, uh, so when you get a green light, it's such a beautiful blessing, and you can show what you've got. And she had the stuff. [S2] Well, thank goodness. [S1] Yeah, but it's not- [S2] ... that you made that happen.
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[S1] ... but it's not me. [S2] ... that you made that happen. Yes, your genius tapped into. [S1] Yes, but- [S2] You took all the crap away from me that was telling me I was no good and not worthy and I'm wasting your time. Let me get outta here quickly. He sat me still and said, "I'm interested in you," and therefore I was able to... [LAUGHS] I could cry. [S1] I sure love you. I sure love you, Naomi. You're fantastic and it's, like you said, so fortunate. [S2] So fortunate.
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[S1] It's unbelievable. [S2] When we did Betty's Aunt's apartment, because it was going to be a television show, we built a set. And then when the film was completed, we folded up the set and they stored it. And then ABC passed on the series. Those stupid people. [S1] Yeah. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] floating around, and nice and easy, nothing aggressive, and... [S2] But they're both the same. [S1] I think, you know, when we were shooting it, and the way he was directing the performance, it was maybe 30% of what you see in the final film. Once he cuts it together, you know, I think, uh, it was edited in such a way that there were a lot of pauses in there that gave it a lot of weight, and of course, David's sound design just sort of
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[S1] ... of the scene with, uh, Cookie. That was shot at the same theater where we shot. And, uh, we hadn't planned to shoot it there. We, we were gonna shoot it at a hotel in Hollywood. [S2] My bank. [S1] And David was shooting, and he saw this little room, and I'm out looking, I'm out getting the other location ready. I get this phone call, "Jack, uh, David's found a place he wants to shoot here." And I'm getting, sort of getting the other location ready, and I go, "What do you mean?" I,
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[S1] that one very reasonable argument is you get to carry a gun only to the extent that, that securing the defense of the District of Columbia is necessary, and nobody's worried about the defense of the District of Columbia. That can be handled by people other than individuals. Therefore, you don't actually have a right to bear arms. [S2] Well, that was the argument, but the, uh- [S1] So what's wrong with the argument? [S2] Well, you're, you're asking me to go review my opinion, but, uh- [S1] Which is 70 pages long. [S2] Yeah, so, yeah, it, yes. [S1] [LAUGHS] That's a dirty trick, I know. [S2] It is.
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[S1] Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. [S2] That's a dirty trick, I know. [S1] It is, yeah. But the, uh, the essential point is that the framers of the Constitution were skilled lawyers. Uh, the prefatory clause describes the federal purpose, but the operative language, the right to keep and bear arms,
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[S1] Uh, was perceived by the framers and the way it is drafted, it is clear that this is true, as a pre-existing right. It wasn't a right granted by the Constitution, it was a right that was protected by the Constitution. And it didn't say we create a right, it said the right shall be as you- [S2] Shall not be infringed. [S1] ... may be infringed, which implies that it had pre-existed. Now, the reason why there's a prefatory clause is simply to suggest what the federal purpose in maintaining
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[S1] Got it. Segment two, arms and incorporation. You just mentioned Justice, he may be Nino Scalia to you, he's Mr. Justice Scalia to me. [S2] Sure. [S1] Quote, "One of the, one of the mistakes over the last half," I'm quoting Justice Scalia, "One of the mistakes over the last half century has been the so-called incorporation doctrine, which applied against the states the provisions of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights begins, Congress shall make no law, not states shall make no law.
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[S1] It was judicial activism. Uh, it is too late. I agree with Nino entirely. The interesting question which now is going to go to the Supreme Court is whether the Second Amendment is incorporated. [S2] That's a, that of course is where I'm heading. [S1] And I think you, you were getting to. Now, um, my case involved the District of Columbia, so it doesn't, didn't involve an incorporation question because- [S2] The District of Columbia- [S1] ... the District of Columbia is a federal body. [S2] Right.
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[S1] Ninth Circuit is out here in California, plus the whole Western states. Uh, and the Ninth Circuit has held, as I recall, that the incorporation doctrine does include the Second Amendment. [S2] Right. [S1] Uh, the, uh, Second Circuit, in a, an opinion with, uh, which Judge Sotomayor joined, said it does not.
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