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bilibili_data_72647293_BV1Ng4y1a72r_p2_BV1Ng4y1a72r_p2_m4-dialogue_0819831
[S1] We have two weeks to figure out who we're going to spend the rest of our lives with. I've got three people left, uh, Jessica, Amber, and Elsie. They all would make excellent wives, and it's difficult 'cause I'm becoming emotionally attached to all of them in different ways. What's up, Elsie? [S2] [LAUGHS] Do you really think that you can find a wife? [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Yeah, yep. [S2] With Elsie, we're very freaking similar, and it's like, what's going on here? Like, why are we so alike? It's like figuring out if I want to marry myself in girl version, so. With Amber, she excites me, but she also scares the living hell out of me. When we get out of here, we're going to be all, like, engaged and shit. [S1] We're all going to be engaged, and then you're talking in general? Like, or you and me are going to be engaged? [S2] Me and you. [S1] Are you proposing to me now? Is that a thing?
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[S1] went somewhere I've never really, like, felt. [S2] Really? [S1] I've never felt before. We just started to, like, talk very seriously. [S2] Okay. [S1] And he started talking, like, in the context of, like, being my husband. And I, like, started to visualize it. I've waited so long for, like, someone that I care about so much to say those things and, like, to feel that way. He said he would marry me. [S2] Oh, wow.
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[S1] See us walking out of here together. I really can. It's kind of weird to say that. [S2] That's what I'm talking about. Woo! [S1] Okay. [S2] I think Jessica and I will be getting married. So what's up? [S1] I'm sad right now. [S2] Why? [S1] Because I don't like this situation anymore. [S2] What are you talking about? [S1] I just feel like I'd rather just like walk away from this. Like, this is crazy. So many people are going to get hurt in this, you know?
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[S1] I don't want you to, like, hurt. [S2] Why are you, what are you talking about? [S1] Obviously, it's like, since day one, I've been like, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. Like, that's just been it, you know? You know, our connection is so strong, but like, I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't pursue relationships like I came here to do. [S2] What the fuck? I get it, you want to weigh out all your options and be certain.
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[S1] I'm cer- You were certain when you walked out yesterday. [S2] I definitely don't want to jump the gun, you know? It's just the experience for me has been different. Like, it's worked in different ways for me. [S1] And I don't just care about you. Like, I, like, I, I love you. Like, it's crazy. All the other related dates I've had, I didn't feel like that pa- like that. The reason why I'm so passionate right now is because, yeah, I feel that towards you, but if you're feeling that with someone else, it, like- [S2] I will- I'm going to be open and honest with you. [S1] Okay.
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[S1] ... [S2] It feels like I'm an option. That's what it makes me feel like. [S1] God. [S2] I'm, I told you how certain I am. I've never been this certain about something in my life. I like, I'm gonna tell you straight up, like, if I'm not walking out of here with you, then I'll go my separate way and I'll go home. And that's fine. I'm just letting you know where I stand. And that, that, the ball's in your court. And that's what I'm saying.
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[S1] This is what I've always dreamed of. In four weeks, we'll be getting married. My biggest worry is that someone that I'm super in love with and want to marry, I won't be able to walk down the aisle because she just can't be married to someone like me. [S2] I'm excited about my marriage. I am. [S1] You are? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You ready to get this party started? [S2] I am. It's gonna be great. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Like the feeling in the moment. I mean, that's my problem with every relationship or every person that I talk to. It's like I get in there and I'm just like, I want to have a good time. [S2] How do you feel about you and Elsie on paper? [S1] I think we would always have a good time. I, I think that because, you know, we're so similar. [S2] You're in the honeymoon phase, right? And you love talking to them, you love being around them, but our job here is not to be in the honeymoon phase. Our job here is to find someone that we can spend the rest of our life with. And that's important.
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[S1] Like any of these girls. She looked like a freaking bull, man. Like, I have all these conversations with someone and I tell them how I feel and I tell them that, you know, like they're strong in my mind and... ♪ I'm not good at reading minds ♪ [S2] Fuck. [S1] Just say it.
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[S1] Jessica, how you feeling, friend? [S2] Don't let that dude fuck with you. [S1] What? [S2] Don't let Barnett fuck with you. [S1] What do you mean? [S2] I'm just telling you, he's a fuck boy. I just walked out on him.
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[S1] And so, I want you to know that, like, I do care about you. And I get it. There's a lot of societal shit, whatever, and there's a lot of, you know, shit that we would have to combat. [S2] Yeah. [S1] We just don't know, like, what's gonna happen.
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And I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna cover my eyes because I kinda wanna like just black every single thing out. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] And just be with you in this moment. [S1] Okay. [S2] Can you do that too? [S1] Yep, I will close my eyes. [S2] Okay. I'm going to go ahead and get down on my knee. [S1] [SNIFFS] Mm-hmm. [S2] And I'm gonna ask you, Kelly Marie, will you marry me? [S1] I will. Yes. [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Oh, my gosh. Are you excited? [S2] Yes. [S1] I'm so pumped. I love you today, and that love will remain, but I can't wait to learn to love you even more. [S2] I love you, too. It's so surreal.
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[S1] I don't know, like, how to even describe the thoughts that are going through my mind. Like, I have found someone who I have worked so hard to, like, think of and dream of in my head. [S2] Oh, my God. [S1] Like, you are just, like, this...
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[S1] You know, everybody's, like, had something in their past, but, like, you gotta love yourself, and you gotta trust and let other people love you for who you are. And if they can't, then, you know, it's simple term to say, "It's cruel." [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Are you uh-huh-ing or are you humming? [S2] I'm a-huh-ing. [S1] Uh-huh.
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[S1] Well, then we have something in common. [S2] Hello. [S1] Hi. [S2] I, like, really miss that voice. It's really crazy. Um, after our talk yesterday, um, I went to bed thinking about you, and then I woke up, and, like, you were the first thing I thought of this morning. [S1] It's scary to have this amount of emotions so fast. [S2] Mm-hmm. And it's not like me. I don't, like, I don't get attached quick. [S1] That's the same thing with me, too, but...
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[S1] That's the only part I know. [S2] Were you ever in choir? [S1] Was I ever in choir? No. [S2] Yeah. Really? [S1] No, I- I- I get my singing practice in the shower. [S2] Not even, like, elementary school? Oh. [S1] That's like where I- [S2] That's where you, like, really turn it up? [S1] Where I turn it up. Yeah, my dog, like, sits outside and looks at me weird. [S2] See, I don't live by myself, so for me, it's the car. [S1] Oh, yeah. I- I like to make up my own songs while I'm driving to work. [S2] Me too. [S1] And I sing. I sing them to- in the car, and I'm like, "Why does this sound so good?" [S2] I mean, I should get a record deal right now. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Elsie, I like you. [S2] Yeah, you're definitely the kind of guy I could definitely fall for really quickly and know that I would have a lot of fun with, which is my most important thing always. [S1] That's what I was thinking. Like, you know, we're so alike, it's ridiculous, and we like a lot of the same stuff. [S2] What's, like, a song you know on the ukulele? [S1] Nothing. I don't know any songs. [S2] Okay, well, all right. Let's just, I'm- [S1] You like Taylor Swift? [S2] I love Taylor Swift. [S1] I don't know any Taylor Swift.
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[S1] Things are too good to be true. When things start to become real to her, she seems to pull away. [S2] I am gonna propose today. [S1] You ready for this? [S2] I'm ready. [S1] I have fallen in love with who Giannina is as a person, and it's so much more beautiful than just facing somebody off their looks.
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[S1] How you feeling? [S2] Good. [S1] Yeah? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I would love to hear your name again, your full name. [S2] My full name is Gianina Milady Ghibelli. [S1] Gianina Milady Ghibelli. [S2] Bingo. [S1] Hence, Gigi. [S2] Hence, Gigi. [S1] So, I want to tell you,
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[S1] I've been figuring out what makes Giannina tick. And I wanted to give you something that meant something to me. Then I started putting things in this box. Things from other countries, places I've been. Things that I just, that say, "It's Damian." Did you get the box? It says, "My thoughts, my memories." [S2] Okay. [S1] And when you open the box, what do you see?
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[S1] Overdrank. I definitely said some things I didn't really mean. I'm disappointed in myself about that and definitely did not act according to my character or any way that I want to portray myself to my fiance. [S2] You threw a couple wild cards and I'm just like, what is you, what are you talking about? [S1] I know. I don't even know where that came from.
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[S1] Yeah, and that's a, and that's another thing. [S2] Oh, my God. That's not cool. [S1] If you were sober and you were throwing something in my face like that, I would probably walk out. Like, last night, I understood the situation, what was kinda happening, and obviously, the alcohol that was involved. [S2] That's, you know, something I gotta do better at, is just knowing when to cut myself off and not get to that level. [S1] Yeah, I'm not holding anything against you.
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[S1] I'm still here because I see how she looks at me. She's just fighting with herself. [S2] You know, I think we're both very intelligent people that we can just... [S1] We can work through it. [S2] Yeah. You know, so I'm not upset. [S1] Okay, good. Thanks for being so understanding and still being here in the morning.
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[S1] I said that one time, and I also, you did say, you said, "Wow, that was amazing. That was great." Every time, like, I go, "That was really good." [S2] It's great, but it's not fucking mind-blowing. [S1] And thing that states differently is I've never initiated with you. You've always initiated it with me.
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[S1] I appreciate you opening up and being honest. I feel like it's easier communicating like this, like we're back in the pause, than it is face-to-face. [S2] Do you feel like it's easier? [S1] I feel like we just got a lot more on the table than we have in a while. Yeah. [S2] Samesies. [S1] Maybe I can be passionate now. [S2] What? [S1] [LAUGHS] You're lucky there's a wall between us. [S2] Oh, yeah?
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[S1] financially stable, mentally, maybe not so much. [S2] Well, you're in the right family for that. [S1] He's a, he's an engineer. He works in construction. [S2] But I gotta make sure you're taken care of. [S1] I can take care of myself. [S2] You know that. I don't care. I know you can, but that's besides the point.
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[S1] Aww. You just better take care of her. [S2] Oh, I'm going to. You raised a good girl, too, so. [S1] She's a very good girl, and she's smart. And she don't take no crap. [S2] It's one of the things I love about her, so. [S1] I like it. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] After he proposed, I still didn't know what the hell he looked like. [S2] It's all based on just hearing each other and talking and getting to know each other that way and you went for it. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Very good. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] You know how your parents are. You knew that this would be a problem. You didn't do anything to prevent it. [S2] You didn't give them the full story beforehand. I'm just saying we could have handled it differently. [S1] There's obviously a bigger issue here. You're not really fighting for them to meet me 'cause this is the only time that I have that we have to see them. All I know is that before leaving to come here, Damien's mom says,
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[S1] You know, we dated. [S2] And that was in October. We were engaged by December, and we were married in August, and it's been 38 years. [S1] Wow. [S2] So, I keep saying to him, "Keep an open mind." I mean- [S1] Yeah. [S2] That's how I feel. How do you feel, hon?
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[S1] How do you guys got together? [S2] Well. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah, because- [S1] What? [S2] ... two weeks he's engaged.
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[S1] And, you know, I'm a super Christian person, and I go to church, and I want to raise my family in the church, and we're just like, "This is my same person." [S2] I mean, I know how he is. I mean, he's a great kid. [S1] I think he's very, very, very highly of you. [S2] Thank you. [S1] Yeah. [S2] When he told me, I met this girl. Her name is Jessica. Uh, she's a little bit older than me.
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[S1] I'm so sorry. [S2] Don't apologize. [S1] I am, because I really, really need to, 'cause I... Because of every single thing that we've been through, I know that Damien is someone that will stick by my side through everything. [S2] When I'm committing to marriage, I'm committing to that person, good or bad. [S1] I've shown him everything. Everything.
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[S1] And not only for her, it's also for you. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Because I tell you this, you're married to a tough woman, and it's a tough position. Believe me. [S2] Yeah. Yeah.
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[S1] I mean, I just feel like, like my whole life. You're like, "Well, you gotta get a husband. Lauren, you're single. You need a husband. How are you gonna find a husband in the house, Lauren? Oh, you're by yourself. Oh, Lauren, your eggs are drying up. Oh, you need to have kids." [S2] Finally. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Okay. [S2] And, uh, I mean, I, I feel 100% in, and there's no one else I would wanna be with. [S1] Oh, my. So the experiment worked, according to you, huh? [S2] [LAUGHS] Yeah. [S1] Oh, wow. [S2] [LAUGHS] Yeah. [S1] Yeah. [S2] She's an amazing woman. [S1] Okay. [LAUGHS] [S2] Yeah. [S1] [LAUGHS] Well, that's great to hear. [S2] Yeah. [S1] How do you feel that way about her?
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] Looking forward to it. [S1] He's really crazy about his daughter, his one and only daughter. [S2] Right. [S1] And he'll probably tell you, "Take no offense at this." [S2] Sure. [S1] "I will kill for her." [S2] I mean, even literally. [S1] Yeah, but he won't kill you. He will kill you. [S2] I mean, it would be just in doing that if I did something, you know.
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[S1] Why marriage, though? What I'm trying to say is that you start out in a, in a lust mode. You, you have a spark and, and, and, and in that spark, you do everything to make the other person happy. But after 10 years of marriage, things get real. [S2] When I tell you, the way that we match up is unrealistic. [S1] It doesn't make any sense. [S2] It's unrealistic.
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[S1] The Papa Speed is ready to grill Cameron. Very high anxiety, very high anticipation. It is truly and honestly the craziest set of emotions that I've ever felt in my life. [S2] It would be nice to find some common ground with your father. [S1] Don't look so nervous. [S2] You think I look nervous? [S1] Just relax.
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[S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] This is Cameron. [S1] This is me. [S2] Cameron. [S1] Okay. [S2] Well- [S1] Finally, you know, we get to meet. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Hmm. I got a million questions. Um, I mean, I'm, I, I wanna put your mind at ease as much as I can. [S2] Really?
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[S1] What kind of life you intend to give my daughter here? [S2] I want us to be equal partners in our marriage. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] And I want to do everything that I can to make her happy. [S1] [CLEARS THROAT] Well, I don't really know you. I have to get to know you. [S2] Sure. [S1] You know what I'm saying? [S2] I, I want you to know me. [S1] Okay. [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] How are you, man? [S2] Oh, just living clean, loving Jesus. What's up with you? [S1] I'm clean living and loving Jesus too. This is great. Eric Cowie. He's one of my favorite people on the documentary. He's deeply compelling. Eric, welcome to the After Show. [S2] Thanks for having me. [S1] Did you wash your glorious hair today? [S2] Uh, no. What's the point? You know, I'm gonna get peed on every day, so...
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[S1] I have to ask. [S2] Uh, work? [S1] You need to tell Jeff and Lauren to give you a, a couple hours off to start, to start in on this thing.
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[S1] It was fun. It was interesting for me because I, as a Jew, you would never go to a conversion class. You're already a Jew, so I learned a lot. And I also was kind of surprised by the demographic breakdown. [S2] Okay, first of all, it's all women. [S1] All women. [S2] And I couldn't figure out why. [S1] Why? We were trying to figure it out and then we realized. [S2] Oh, it's because the men all have to get circumcised. [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] One of the cool things, though, about the conversion classes was that Natasha and I, uh, well, they train you not only to be Jewish, but they're also teaching you about the, the wedding you're about to have. And Natasha got really taken with the kinda old school, very obscure rituals that some Jewish weddings had. She wanted to do them all. [S2] Like I wanted to do that thing where you put the napkin on their head. [S1] Right. There's this tradition called the Bideikan where, yeah, the bride- [S2] I like to call it the thing where you put the napkin on the head. [S1] Well-
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[S1] That's cool, man. [S2] So you guys are married now and you live together? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Okay. And how has it been going? Like, do you have any pet peeves living with him? Um... [S1] Wait, can I ask a question before we get into that? [S2] Yeah. [S1] John, you guys, your first date was a Halloween party, is that right? [S2] Um, it wasn't our first date. Oh, it wasn't our first date, but... [S1] But what did you dress up as? [S2] I was just wearing, like, normal high school clothes. [S1] Oh, man.
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[S1] ... to pee, so let's get through this. [S2] Okay. John, what's your pet peeve? [S1] Um, I, I would have to say that, uh, she kinda hoards stuff, like little trinkets and things that... [S2] Oh, you mean like the, the chalice of the Overwatch power button or whatever? [S1] Well, we do have some figures, so, yeah. [S2] I know you do, my guy. All right, so, tell me, I'm sorry, I didn't understand. What is your pet peeve? [S1] She's a hoarder.
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[S1] I think that you need to throw away your Taco Bell wrappers or whatever you're keeping in your house. And then once a week, you guys need to have a date night and take a lift. [S2] Oh, that's nice. I like that. [S1] So then he doesn't have to like have a- [S2] I like that. [S1] ... get stressed out about parking.
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[S1] or Uber, depending on who the sponsors are. And, uh, also, I will add to Tasha's idea, which I think is a very good one, um, you can use Google Maps to Google, uh, nearest location of nearest dump, and then you can drive all of her garbage and throw it the fuck away. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Give it up for these two. [S2] Thank you guys. [S1] Thank you so much. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you so much. Alice, nice to meet you. Thank you. [S2] Thank you, guys. [S1] You're so sweet. Thank you, guys. [S2] Be careful, guys. [S1] There you go. Thank you very much. Well, all right. You get the idea.
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[S1] I don't know how to flirt. That's kind of my way of flirting. Hey, um, let's take a shot. [S2] Are you from here? [S1] I'm not. I am from, like, Nomad. [S2] Go ahead. [S1] Um, born in Ohio, moved to San Antonio, Texas, moved to Houston, went to school in Alabama. [S2] You're right this time. [S1] I know, right? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Are your parents in Chumette?
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] 100%. So, so for me, I have, uh, always been told that, like, I am, like, that attention person. [S1] Yeah, you, like, compliments a lot. [S2] Do, do I, do I ask for 'em?
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[S1] Thank you so much. [S2] Girl, I love how creative you are. Um, and everything that you're trying to do with, like, your photography and stuff like that. It's- [S1] Thank you. [S2] ... super attractive. [S1] Usually, the first date I go on with someone- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... they end up being my boyfriend for, like, four years. I'm not saying you can be my, my boyfriend. I don't want to scare you. But usually, that one date, it's like, bam. Like, okay, we're in love now. We're- we're together. [S2] Oh, Lord. [S1] Mahal kita.
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[S1] He was sitting on the bed next to me. [S2] It's okay. [S1] And I just said, "Hello, Marcus." I guess the major thing about being a twin is that you're never alone. And it's a massive thing to have. So whatever happens to you in your life, you've always got your other half there.
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[S1] It really hurt her a lot. [S2] So I was totally on my own in that house with no support apart from my brother. He gets it. He understands. I don't have to explain anything to him. He doesn't make it difficult for me. He gives me everything I need. [S1] If he hadn't known who I was and he hadn't known his twin, then he would have been all alone in the world for the rest of his life.
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[S1] outside. And then he said, "Oh, yes, and you, and you have a girlfriend." I was like, "Oh, I've got a girlfriend of mine." She, um, she was very nice, and she didn't really notice that I had no idea who she was. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Our sort of standing joke is that I lost my virginity to the same woman twice. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] I had no reason to doubt him, did I? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] To start with, it was quite simple because I had all the answers. But as time goes by, the questions get more complicated, the questions get more directed, and then you have to start remembering what you haven't told him, remembering what you have told him. So then it became a conscious choice to actually
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[S1] Because by giving that to you, I then had to give it all back to myself, which I'd spent fucking years getting rid of, bearing and bearing and bearing and bearing it. [S2] Silence, silence, silence. [S1] Yeah, but it allowed me to have a free life, as you were having a free life, free of child abuse. When I took it away from you, I took it away from me. You don't understand that.
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[S1] That is my defense mechanism. It is a lie. Being silent is a lie. And telling you what you wanted to know is breaking the silence. [S2] Any of the information? [S1] Anything, Alex. Anything more than, "Yes, my mother abused us." I gave you the info. You asked me a question, I told you the answer. Everything else is off the table. I couldn't cope with it anymore.
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[S1] ... spending hours talking to people, finding things, scraps of information. It ran and totally ran my life. [S2] But why couldn't you let it go? Why couldn't you accept it? [S1] I, I couldn't. I just could not let it go. [S2] But do you understand why I couldn't give it to you? [S1] Yeah, I do. I do understand that. So I was silently doing all my stuff, trying to find it, and you were silently trying not to, to give me anything. [S2] I had no choice, I... [S1] And so it went on. I
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[S1] This is a necessity, Alex. We've come to the end of the line. You look at it. But I just can't do it to your face, Alex. I'm gonna go away and let you watch it. And then we're done. [S2] Okay. [S1] Are you ready to do that? [S2] Yes. [S1] Now, you're making me very scared now,
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[S1] I was born for this. [S2] I had this idea to do a show about women that I really just love, admire. I love what they're doing in their own industry, in their discipline, um, their journey to become a strong woman within that industry. And of course, one of the first people I thought it was Dolly. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Because, um, no one
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[S1] I'm not remember. This is so vivid. [S2] You're still little. [S1] Okay, well, short. I was in kindergarten, skipping rope, and I always was kind of a loner, and I was always singing to myself, and I had big dreams. And my, my P.E. teacher said to me, "Racy, what do you want to be when you grow up?" And I said, "I'm gonna be Dolly Parton." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And I meant it. I was not, I didn't, I didn't even blink. And she said, "You're gonna be Dolly Parton?" I said, "Mm-hmm." "I'm gonna be famous, like Miss Dolly Parton." And she's from Tennessee, and if she can do it, then I can do it.
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[S1] I cried a lot, and he was very strong-willed. But I pretended like I was talking to one of my uncles or- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... one of my brothers and saying, "You're not pushing me around." [S2] Right. Yeah. [S1] I'm a songwriter, and I ain't a girl singer forever. I was out to be a solo artist. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I still want to have my own band. I want to have my own show. I want to have my own life. I don't want to just be the girl singer in somebody else's group. And that's when I wrote, "I Will Always Love You." So I went back the next morning, and I- I said, "Sit down. I have something I want to play for you."
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[S1] Years later, Elvis was recording here and I knew the people that were producing him, so they called me two or three weeks before- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... and said, "Elvis is recording. You want to come down and meet him? 'Cause he's going to record. I will always love you." And I thought, "Oh, my God." And I told everybody, you know? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And I was so excited, and I was going to go to the session and meet Elvis and all that. And then just like a, a day before,
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[S1] And I said, "Well- [S2] Now hold on. [S1] I said, "Well, I can't do that." I said, "'Cause I've already had a number one song on it, and it's my most important copyright." [S2] Right. [S1] And he said, "Well, then we can't record it." And I cried all night. I was so upset about it. But I thought, "You know, I can do it. I can't even do it for Elvis." Priscilla told me later he was very disappointed. And she told me how much he loved the song. When they divorced, that when they were leaving the courthouse, she told me that he was singing that song in her ear. [S2] Oh,
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[S1] Unless I should wreck. [S2] Yeah. [S1] It was the most overwhelming feeling I've ever had. [S2] And that was Whitney Houston singing your song. [S1] And it was Whitney. She took it to so many levels to think that my little song, my little heartfelt, heartbreaking song could be that big. I felt like that I had arrived as a
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[S1] Well, not changed enough, I don't think. But I really think it threw a light on it back then at times. And I think a lot of things were greatly improved because of that. But people don't realize there are many good men. And you know what I'm talking about. You've worked with a lot of wonderful, wonderful men. [S2] Yes. [S1] But there are some that just won't give you a break. There are just some that think because they are men, that they can take advantage, or because they are the boss. [S2] I do believe too, it's a moment for women to stand up. But honestly, we need balance in the world. [S1] We do. We gotta have- [S2] We need men-
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[S1] Very genuine in everything that you do. And I think that comes from, you know, your background. And, um, you know, my favorite song is "Coat of Many Colors." [S2] Oh, yeah. [S1] It just, as a little girl, I would listen to it and I thought, "No matter where you're from, your life matters. Your story's important." I think a lot of people think out there, like, "How am I ever gonna get ahead?" But I look at you and I think about your story and what your mother made this coat out of little pieces of- [S2] Yeah.
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[S1] ... a fabric. [S2] That little song is more than a song. It's about an attitude, a philosophy. It's about, you know, it's, it's about the bullying. [S1] Yeah. [S2] You know, that we made it into a children's story. [S1] Yeah. [S2] About how, accepting people as they are. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] And for their differences, and not to make fun and not to laugh. And that you're only poor if you choose to be, meaning you can be rich in spirit, you can be rich in thought, you can be rich in talent, and you can be rich in all those wonderful things. So, that little song means a great deal to me, and it's meant a lot
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[S1] ... for these children. [S2] Oh, that was late. It was a woman. [S1] A woman, okay. [S2] Yeah, that was, yeah. And she, uh, she prayed all the time. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And she was kinda like a, a psychic. And I was little, and she put her hands on me and she was praying and she said, "This child is anointed." And she were, like, shaking. [LAUGHS] Like the Pentecost. She said, "This child is anointed." Of course, after church. And Mom said, "That just means God has a hand on you." [S1] Mm. [S2] And that you might do great things. [S1] Wow. [S2] So-
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[S1] I was worried. [S2] What a beautiful story. [S1] Yeah. [S2] It sounds like you've always had that guiding light inside of you.
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[S1] ... for doing this. [S2] Thanks for visiting us. [S1] Yeah, where should I sit? [S2] Sit there. [S1] Okay, perfect. [S2] This is the end part of the movie making. [S1] Wow. [S2] Usually I'm with the beginning and the middle with you, but- [S1] It's so amazing. [S2] Yeah, all the places where we were
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[S1] So cool. All the costumes. [S2] So I'm just excited to be here and hear more about, like, your journey as a, as a director and how you, I mean, I was reading today about how you went from your first movie- [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] ... that was $50,000. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And you were, like, "I could either buy a house- [S1] [LAUGHS] Right. [S2] ... or I could make a movie." [S1] Right, right, right. [S2] And you made a movie. [S1] I made a movie. [S2] And it was only
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[S1] ... years ago. [S2] Yeah, it wasn't long ago. You know, in Facebook, where they have these, um, these, this new feature where it tells you what you were, what you posted two years ago? [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Two years ago, today, was the premiere of Selma. [S1] Wow. [S2] Seems like so, seems like I did that film so long ago. For me- [S1] Oh, yeah. [S2] ... I've done 13th, I've done Queen Sugar, I've shot Wrinkle in Time- [S1] Right. [S2] ... I've done so many other things, but it was only two years. [S1] I remember I melt
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[S1] You, the way we met was you had Selma coming out and I had Wylde coming out. [S2] Oh, right. [S1] It was a new step for me, for sure, and I was really nervous and insecure about being a first-time producer and starring in things. And I immediately saw you and Oprah at an event and I was like, "Hey, ladies." [S2] Yeah. [S1] "Hey, I'm here too, fellow ladies." [S2] Yeah. [S1] I was like, it made me feel more comfortable. [S2] Yeah. But all you've produced and all that you've done since then, I mean, in such a short time, really cementing yourself as, you know, one of our foremost women producers, so it's exciting.
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[S1] Well, I'm sure trying. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I think part of that just- [S2] We work fast. [S1] Yeah, we work fast. And you have to, don't you? [S2] Yeah. [S1] This sense of urgency. [S2] Yeah, I do. Hollywood in general, you know, windows open and close. There are people that were, you know, highly regarded five years ago that now you don't hear from. So the town is really fickle. But also you put on that, on top of that being a woman and you put on that, on top of that being a woman of color. [S1] Right. [S2] Um, you know, there's, there's just a feeling of like, "Let me get it in while I can."
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[S1] Did you ever think, like, when you were a little girl, that you were gonna be a director? [S2] Oh. [S1] And be on the Disney lot, making $100 million movie? [S2] I did not. [S1] What'd you think you were gonna be? [S2] A lawyer. [S1] Really? [S2] Yeah, I wanted to be a lawyer when I was little. [S1] What kind of lawyer? [S2] Uh, civil rights. [S1] Nice. [S2] Yep. I remember getting a briefcase for my eighth birthday and thinking, "There it is. A few short steps from the courtroom." [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] And I really was like, "Yeah, this is my path with that briefcase." [S1] Well, I've played a lawyer, and sometimes I think, "I am a lawyer."
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[S1] I love it. [S2] Did you have a moment where you were like, why, why did you want to direct? [S1] I didn't pick up a camera until I was 32 years old. I was a publicist and I was on all kinds of sets. And one day I was on a set, Michael Mann's set of a film called Collateral. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And there were a lot of people of color in the film. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And they were shooting in, very near to where I grew up. And I thought, "Gosh,
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[S1] ... in that process as a publicist on set where I was like, I don't know what that is, 'cause I didn't go to film school. [S2] Right. [S1] So the technicality of that scared me and made me think I can never learn that. But once these new digital cameras came, I was like, "Oh, you just push that button and let's start." [S2] And we're going. [S1] I thought, well, wow, there's a lot more to the filmmaking than the technical aspects of lenses and all of those, and gave me permission as someone who wasn't formally trained- [S2] Right. [S1] ... to look more closely at the more creative aspects of it.
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] ... that, um, I felt, you know, fully ready to jump into. [S1] Did you ever feel nervous to ask questions? [S2] Oh, um, yeah. I think it was really important when I first started to surround myself with people who I felt comfortable asking questions. [S1] Yeah, that's so good. [S2] Uh, but yeah, I cobbled together that film school experience of my, for myself. I didn't ever sit in a classroom. I would watch DVD commentaries of directors. I was like, "This is, is this
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[S1] Legal. So this person is just gonna walk me through every single thing they did to make this movie. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And it's on every movie ever made. [S2] Every DVD, I know. [S1] Uh, yeah. So it, it, all that to say, there are different ways to learn. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And, um, we as women, um, you know, are often taught, I think one of the big challenges in moving into new spaces is that we, it's put forth that the best way to achieve, that there is one way to achieve.
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[S1] Right? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] It's the formal route. It's the route the guys have gone. It's the route these certain people have gone. [S2] Right. [S1] And I'm never gonna be Steven Spielberg. I'm never gonna, I did not have a Super 8 camera when I was eight years old. [S2] Right. [S1] I don't have any of that. [S2] Right. [S1] I only had what was inside of me and I had to be able to tell myself that's enough. [S2] Right. [S1] And to step forth with, with what I could get my hands on. [S2] That's incredible. That was my favorite moment. [S1] Oh, yes. [S2] On your Instagram. I and my ancestors,
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[S1] ... Wildest dream. [S2] Oh, yeah. [S1] That made me so happy. [S2] That was our first day of shooting our movie. [S1] And it was so emotional for me. I saw it on, 'cause I wasn't there the first day and I was like, "That just says it all, doesn't it?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] People that came before us, wouldn't they be shocked? [S2] Yeah, they'd be shocked. They'd be- [S1] They'd be so- [S2] They'd be, they'd be proud. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] It's major. [S2] Yeah. [S1] You really are changing the way that people see the world. [S2] Wow, thank you. [S1] And I love
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[S1] ... Thank you. [S2] And I loved being on your set. It was the first time I'd been on a movie set where everybody there, it was reflective of the world we live in. [S1] Mm.
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[S1] There were 50% women. There were people of color, LGBTQ. It was the most diverse, below the line crew that I'd ever seen in my life. [S2] That thrills me to hear. [S1] It was wonderful. And as a, a woman who's been in the business for over 25 years, and I started as a little girl, and I used to be the only woman in a movie, and there were no people of color. [S2] No. [S1] I would love to hear more about how, first of all, how you're implementing that. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And what you say to studios when you bring that idea to them.
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[S1] Yeah, well, you know, it's, it's, it's a new idea. And so I have to be patient with, uh, folks in the industry, unions and studios, networks, production companies, um, and, and, and, and be, uh, aware of the fact that this is a learning process for everyone. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Um, but this is a demand. [S2] Yes. [S1] I do not work otherwise. [S2] Right. [S1] I need to make sure that we have an inclusive set. I feel like that's the most healthy environment for optimal creativity, for me anyway. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And, um, I feel like it's something that we should be impl-
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[S1] ... industry-wide. I think the challenge is, and you might find this as well, you'll hear a lot, like, "I need a woman, a sound re-recordist." Yeah. "Oh, but there aren't any." I don't know. I don't think ... Well, find one. And you find them. [S2] And they are. [S1] And they are. There's a woman in every category. There's a person of color in every category. [S2] It's true. [S1] You know? And then there's also another thing that I've been really looking at in terms of crews as well as ageism. [S2] Yes. [S1] You know, we have a sense of everyone kind of being, you know, the spry, you know, 20, 30, 40,
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[S1] But I'm curious how y'all met. [S2] Well, I think that's, that's, that was, um, a surprise for me too, is how normal she is. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Um, you know, uh, just in terms of being willing to share, to talk, and to give advice, and to ask questions, her, her, you know, whenever she asks me a question, I'm like, "Are you asking me?" [S1] Yeah. [S2] "That question?" [S1] She values your opinion. [S2] You know what I mean? Are you asking my opinion about anything? [S1] Yeah. [S2] And so, so it's beautiful, and it, it's, it's definitely nourishing. But I met her, uh, through our mutual friend David Oyelowo. [S1] Okay. [S2] Who played Dr. King in-
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[S1] Yes. [S2] Um, before he played Dr. K and Selma, he was in a very small independent film that I made called Middle of Nowhere. [S1] Yes. [S2] We made this small film in South Central for $200,000. They were making The Butler. She, he was playing her, her son. [S1] Oh, yes. Okay. [S2] And he didn't really have a full grasp on the Oprah-ness of Oprah. I mean, he's a boy- [S1] 'Cause he's English. [S2] ... boy from-
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[S1] ... from Britain, right? [S2] Right. [S1] So he just said, "Hey, will you watch this film that my friend made?" And I remember when he told me that, I was like, "You, you just said that to Oprah Winfrey, like a normal person?" He was like, "Yeah, I was just sitting in the, in the trailer with her and I just asked her." And he's like, "So what'd she say?" I was like, "She said, 'Yeah,'" but she just said, "Yeah." So I was so freaked out. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So they said, "Send her the link," and I remember preparing the email with the link, like double-checking the link and then double-checking the email address. No, that's not- [S2] And your spelling. [S1] That's not good.
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[S1] ... saying, um, how much she enjoyed it and good job. [S2] Oh. [S1] And so from there, we just, uh, started to be connected. The way she tells it, she had looked me up on the internet, Googled me- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... and saw me with my glasses and thought, "That looks like a nice girl to be friends with." [S2] Aww. [S1] "Thanks, glasses." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And, um, and so, yeah, that's how it started. She really cultivated a friendship with me because I was too freaked out to be a normal person. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So for about the first year- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... I was very weird. [S2] Oh, you were? [S1] Oh, yeah. She'd come into the room and,
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[S1] But she does that. She like cracks you open. [S2] Wow. [S1] There's a great, that's a, that's a vulnerability that, you know, you're in front of her, but it's also a gift she has to open people up. [S2] Yeah. I think when you sit in front of her, you realize that she's open, so it makes you want to match that in some way. [S1] For sure. So, should we go maybe see some- [S2] Yeah, let's go. [S1] I want you to show me something. I want a surprise. [S2] My next, my next session is a sound editing. Let's-
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[S1] Yes. [S2] Awesome. [S1] So we, we just layer them all on these, on these tracks here, and it's really about mixing them together. It's a really intricate part of the filmmaking process that most people don't even know exists. And, you know, Julie specifically has been with me forever. She's a music editor. [S2] Okay. [S1] And so she cuts the music around the dialogue and the effects. I mean, it's really a testament to the cool jobs that are behind the scenes in, in filmmaking. I mean, the actor and the director are often the ones that you hear about. [S2] Yeah. [S1] But, I mean, amazing and such, you know, cool. I mean,
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[S1] Very good. [S2] Okay. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] I remember when I met you, you had this incredible confidence and I had just come from a meeting with a woman who had no confidence as a director and it was really hard for her and she didn't get the job because she didn't present well. And I feel like it's scary to be in job interviews and- [S1] It is. But I do have something that I always, always tell folks about job-
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[S1] ... interviews. [S2] Okay, tell- [S1] And it's something that I learned when I was the one doing the hiring. When I became the one doing the hiring, and I would wake up in the morning thinking, "Oh, please let one of these five people I want to see be the one who's going to help me- [S2] Yes. [S1] ... and build that job." [S2] Okay. [S1] And so when you go into a job interview, they want to hear you be the one. [S2] Yes. [S1] Right? They don't want to see you nervous. They don't want to hear the question, "Am I the one?" They want someone who is capable, who's smart, who is passionate. Whether you know how to do it or not,
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[S1] The thing that embeds in them a sense of, I can do this on my own. [S2] Right. [S1] And the earlier you can start that, I think the more you start to, you know, cultivate a confidence in kids, I can do this. [S2] Yeah. [S1] You know? There's something about the act of doing it. [S2] Doing creates more doing. [S1] That's right. [S2] Whenever people get stuck, I just say, "Do something." [S1] Yeah. [S2] Take a job you don't want to learn what you do want. [S1] I really believe that some of the best creativity happens within limits, you know? Limits that are put upon us. You know, we have to find creative ways out of it. [S2] Getting older as an actress,
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[S1] I started to see the parts go away. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I started seeing things diminish. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I mean, I knew I had an audience out there. I needed to connect with them directly. [S2] Right. [S1] And social media gave me this incredible confidence, having this audience to go, "How many make movies that are gonna show and reflect what they wanna see now?" [S2] Yes. [S1] And then it made me start a production company. [S2] Right. [S1] And I was like, "Oh, people like the books that I'm reading, and I'm just gonna buy them and make a movie." [S2] Right. [S1] But it came out of the scarcity- [S2] Yes, yes. [S1] ... of, of roles for myself. [S2] Yes, yes. [S1] Can you talk a little bit about why you created Array?
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[S1] Below the line. [S2] Yes. And just to talk about sort of cultural change in our business, obviously there's a lot going on with harassment and abuse. [S1] Yeah. I think the change with anything, even as I studied the Civil Rights Movement with Selma or criminal justice system with 13.
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