Opinion ID: 459825
Heading Depth: 2
Heading Rank: 2

Heading: The Formality of the Discussion

Text: 28
29 Because we find that the interview of Lewis concerned a grievance, the only remaining question is the formality of the discussion. In determining whether a discussion should be considered formal, the FLRA examines the totality of facts and circumstances presented. We find that in the present case, the FLRA's reversal of the ALJ's finding that the interview was formal is not supported by substantial evidence on the record and constitutes an unexplained departure from agency precedent. 30 The FLRA's conclusion that the interview was not formal runs counter to the undisputed evidence. The ALJ found, and the FLRA does not dispute, that the meeting was initiated by management; it was held away from Lewis' normal work area, lasted twenty to thirty minutes, and was marked by the taking of notes by a high level management representative. The FLRA concluded that these undisputed indicia of formality were outweighed by the fact that none of the interviewers were in Lewis' chain of supervision. 13 The FLRA also cites as support for its conclusion the lack of a clear finding that Lewis' presence was mandatory and the lack of evidence on the record of any advance notice of the meeting or any formal agenda distributed in advance of the meeting. 31 Previous FLRA cases have relied on lack of advance notice and distributed agenda as indications that a meeting was spontaneous and therefore unlikely to be formal. 14 These factors, however, do not always correlate with spontaneity and thus mere absence of notice or an agenda will not necessarily indicate that a meeting is not formal. In fact, the available evidence in this record indicates the contrary conclusion: that the interview of Lewis was planned in advance. For an attorney and two labor relations specialists to meet at the office of one of the labor relations specialists and in a single day interview all of the witnesses to be called at an MSPB hearing surely indicates some advance preparation. Cf. Office of Program Operations, Field Operations, Social Security Administration, 9 F.L.R.A. at 50 (refusing to find formal meeting where district manager was at the office on other business and not as a consequence of any advance arrangements). Lack of notice and formal agenda, therefore, offer negligible evidence of informality, since the inference that these factors are sufficient to support, i.e., that the interview might have been an impromptu gathering, is directly contradicted by more powerful evidence. 32 The lack of a clear finding that Lewis' continued presence at the interview was mandatory is similarly not controlling as to informality. The evidence concerning what the interviewers told Lewis at the start of the interview is contradictory, and the ALJ never resolved the question of the compulsory nature of the interview. Cf. 13 F.L.R.A. 27, 31 n. 1. Where an employee interview is characterized by strong indicators of formality, such as the fact that an employee was summoned to a meeting initiated by three management representatives and held on management's terrain, an asserted lack of clear evidence on a single disputed point such as whether the continued presence of the employee was compulsory cannot carry the day for the agency. This is especially true where the FLRA has declined to offer its own assessment of the credibility of the witnesses or to find that Lewis' presence was in fact not compulsory. 15 33 Finally, the FLRA does not explain why the fact that the interviewers were not in Lewis' direct chain of supervision outweighs the fact that the interviewers were nonetheless management representatives. The focus of prior FLRA decisions has been on whether management representatives attended a discussion. Thus, personnel specialists who addressed employees at an orientation session were considered representatives of the agency and the FLRA found the meeting to be a formal one. See Department of HEW, Region IV, Atlanta, Ga. and National Treasury Employees Union, 5 F.L.R.A. 458, 460 (1981). Prior FLRA cases have not required a showing that the agency representatives were within the employee's chain of supervision. See Internal Revenue Service and National Treasury Employees Union, 11 F.L.R.A. 69, 71 (1983) (finding a formal discussion between employees and members of a task force composed of managerial and supervisory officials where No task force member interviewed any employee from his own district.), aff'd mem. sub nom. National Treasury Employees Union v. Federal Labor Relations Authority, 725 F.2d 126 (D.C.Cir.1984). 34 The Authority considered the totality of facts and circumstances and concluded that the interview of Lewis was not formal in nature. We find this conclusion unsupported by substantial evidence on the record as a whole. Where a discussion to which management summoned an employee is attended by three management representatives, at least one of whom has some responsibilities in the disciplinary process, 16 is held away from the employee's work station in the office of that management representative, lasts for twenty to thirty minutes, and is marked by the taking of notes, the fact that the management representatives are not in an employee's direct chain of supervision does not outweigh or sufficiently negate the other evidence of formality. Therefore, we find the record as a whole does not support the FLRA's conclusion to the contrary.
35 The FLRA's conclusion that the Bureau's interview of Lewis was not a formal discussion is also contrary to decisions of the Assistant Secretary for Labor-Management Relations interpreting Section 10(e) of Executive Order 11491, the predecessor to Sec. 7114(a)(2)(A). Section 10(e) of Executive Order 11491 was carried over into Sec. 7114(a)(2)(A) with no significant changes. 17 In United States Air Force, McClellan Air Force Base, California, A/SLMR No. 830, 7 A/SLMR 350 (1977), and again in Internal Revenue Service, South Carolina District, A/SLMR No. 1172, 8 A/SLMR 1370 (1978), the Assistant Secretary for Labor-Management Relations concluded that an interview by the agency of bargaining unit employees expected to appear as witnesses for a grievant at an arbitration hearing constituted a formal discussion at which the union had a right to be represented under Sec. 10(e). Both decisions turned on a determination that an interview of a witness was a formal discussion. 18 The other indicia of formality in these two cases also resembled those of the present case, except that only in the present case did more than one management representative attend the interview. In McClellan, the attorney representing the agency asked the personnel office to request the employee witnesses to come to his office the next morning. The attorney interviewed the employees at 8 a.m., a few hours before the scheduled arbitration hearing. In IRS, South Carolina District, the employee witness was told by his group manager that the attorney representing the agency would like to talk with him; the interview between the employee and the attorney took place later in the month. 36 The decisions of the Assistant Secretary construing Sec. 10(e) were incorporated into the Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute by the grandfather provision of Sec. 7135(b). Section 7135(b) of the FLMR provides that 37 Policies, regulations, and procedures established under and decisions issued under Executive Order[ ] 11491 ... shall remain in full force and effect until revised or revoked by the President, or unless superseded by specific provisions of this chapter or by regulations or decisions issued pursuant to this chapter. 38 While Sec. 7135(b) does not bar the FLRA from reevaluating the decisions of the Assistant Secretary, Sec. 7135(b) requires the FLRA to treat those decisions as being in full force until it undertakes such a reevaluation. Where, as here, the Congress adopted the provision in the Executive Order in virtually unchanged form and nothing in the legislative history suggests any congressional dissatisfaction with the prior application or interpretation of the provision, we would assume Sec. 7135(b) requires the FLRA to treat the administrative precedent with the same deference as it would treat its own prior FLRA decisions. At a minimum, the FLRA must acknowledge the precedent and provide a reason for departure, just as it must when it reappraises its own precedent. Cf. Baltimore and Annapolis Railroad Co. v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Commission, 642 F.2d 1365, 1370 (D.C.Cir.1980) (agency must justify a departure from its prior determinations); Greater Boston Television Corp. v. FCC, 444 F.2d 841, 852 (D.C.Cir.1970) (agency changing its course must supply a reasoned analysis indicating that prior policies and standards are being deliberately changed, not casually ignored), cert. denied, 403 U.S. 923, 91 S.Ct. 2233, 29 L.Ed.2d 701 (1971). 39 The reference in the FLRA's decision to Internal Revenue Service and Brookhaven Service Center and National Treasury Employees Union, Chapter 99 (Brookhaven), 9 F.L.R.A. 930 (1982), does not constitute the reasoned analysis which the law requires for the FLRA's departure from the policy set forth in the Assistant Secretary's decisions in McClellan Air Force Base and IRS, South Carolina District. In the first place, Brookhaven never discusses McClellan Air Force Base or IRS, South Carolina District or provides any reason for departing from them. More importantly, however, we do not find Brookhaven inconsistent with these two prior cases. In Brookhaven, the FLRA found that an agency interview of two bargaining unit employees whom the agency intended to call as its own major witnesses in an upcoming arbitration hearing was not a formal discussion. The FLRA also determined that the agency's interview of a bargaining unit employee in preparation for an upcoming unfair labor practice proceeding where that employee was not to appear as a witness did not constitute a formal discussion. Brookhaven, when read in conjunction with McClellan and IRS, South Carolina District, suggests that a formal discussion is more likely to be found where an agency interviews the witnesses of its opponent than when it interviews its own witnesses or conducts background fact gathering, even if other indicia of formality are similar. 40 When an employer interviews an adverse witness rather than his own or even a neutral witness, common sense suggests that the situation carries a greater potential for intimidation or coercion. In assessing formality under Sec. 7114(a)(2)(A), the FLRA has always considered the potential coerciveness of the encounter. Factors frequently cited by the FLRA as militating toward a finding of formality, such as mandatory attendance or the number of supervisors present, focus on the confrontational potential of the interview, or at least the perception thereof. Brookhaven, along with McClellan Air Force Base and IRS, South Carolina District, are thus relevant in assessing the coerciveness component of formality. In the present case, the FLRA disregarded its own precedent bearing on the important element of formality supplied by the fact that the Bureau interviewed an adverse witness. Such a departure from precedent, and apparent refusal to consider a relevant factor, requires some word of justification.