Opinion ID: 2009700
Heading Depth: 1
Heading Rank: 6

Heading: r.f.

Text: R.F., a three-year-old girl, was interviewed on June 21, 1985, by the Essex County Prosecutor's Office at the Wee Care facility. After several minutes of small talk, R.F. told the investigator that Kelly sometimes sings in school. In response to her inquiry, R.F. indicated that the school owned a piano and that she would show the investigators where it was. At that point, the interview went off the record and R.F. apparently took the interviewers to the piano room. On their return to the interview room, the following colloquy took place between the investigator and R.F. The investigator asked, Do you remember what you were saying to me? You said,  you said Kelly did a lot of bad things to the children. R.F. responded, No, she's in jail.... Because she did a lot of bad things. R.F. was unable to identify any of the bad things that Kelly did because, according to R.F., she only did them to D.A. Then, after several minutes of trying to get R.F. to draw pictures, including one of Kelly, the investigators returned to the alleged abuse. An investigator asked if Kelly or Brenda (another teacher at Wee Care) had ever hurt her. R.F. was clear and unambiguous with her response. R.F. was absolutely certain that they had done nothing to her. The investigators continued to press the questioning. R.F. continually stressed that she had not been hurt or touched. R.F. did say, however, that they (Kelly and Brenda) did hurt D.A. The interview continued uneventfully, ending with R.F. telling the interviewers that she would like to come back to the school. A detective from the Prosecutor's office interviewed R.F. again on July 3, 1985. The detective approached his questioning of R.F. somewhat differently than had the previous investigators in that he appeared not to have any warm up period with the child. Prior to engaging in any small talk or even introducing himself to R.F., he asked her where's Kelly? In an effort to find out what relationship R.F. had with Kelly the investigator asked the following questions: Detective: Do you know Kelly? R.F.: Yes. Detective: Was Kelly your teacher? R.F.: Yeah, but she did a lot of bad things to me. Detective: [W]hat did she do to you that was bad? R.F.: Yesterday she did something. But I don't know what it is. Detective: Sure you do, would you like to show me instead of tell me? R.F. then drew a picture of Kelly, giving her a mad face. She indicated to him that she drew a mad face simply because she wanted Kelly to have a mad face. The detective continued the interview asking pointed questions: Detective: Do you think Kelly can hurt you? R.F.: No. Detective: Did Kelly say she can hurt you? Did Kelly ever tell you she can turn into a monster? R.F.: Yes. Detective: What did she tell you? R.F.: She was gonna turn into a monster.     Detective: What did Kelly,  was Kelly a good girl or a bad girl? R.F.: She was a bad girl. Detective: She was a bad girl, were there any other teachers that were bad? R.F.: No. Detective: No, O.K. Kelly was the only bad girl? What did Kelly do that made her a bad girl? R.F.: She readed [sic]. Detective: She what? R.F.: She um, she readed [sic] and she came to me and I said no, no, no. Detective: Did she hurt you? R.F.: I hurted [sic] her. Detective: How did you hurt her? R.F.: Because she, I didn't want to write, and she write and I said no, no, no, no, and I hit her.         The Detective then questioned R.F. using anatomically correct dolls in an apparent attempt to elicit from R.F. the level of understanding she had concerning certain body parts. Detective: What are these? R.F.: Dolls. Detective: O.K. But what am I pointing to? What's that? R.F.: An eye, mouth, nose arm. Detective: What do you call this right here? R.F.: Vagina. Detective: What's this right here? R.F.: Tooshie. Detective: Tooshie. O.K. What do you call these right up here? R.F.: I don't know. Detective: O.K. what do you want to name them? Do you want to name them breasts? R.F.: Yeah. Detective: Now we are going to pretend that this is a little boy. R.F.: Let me see the little boy. Detective: It has no arms or legs or anything, but we are going to pretend that it's a little boy doll, O.K.? What do you call the little thing between the little boy's legs? R.F.: Um, feet. Detective: No, up farther between the legs. Right here. R.F.: Vagina. Detective: No, it's a vagina on a little girl, what is it on a little boy? R.F.: Penis. Detective: Penis, very good. O.K. Now did you ever see a little boy's penis in the school? R.F.: Yes, M.Z.'s. Detective: O.K. Who else was there? R.F.: That's it, only one. Detective: Just M.Z. and you? Was Kelly there? R.F.: She was at jail. The questioning of R.F. continued; the detective sought to uncover any bad things Kelly might have done to R.F. or to anyone else. The following sequence of questions and answers was the first time the use of utensils entered the discussion: Detective: Now, did Kelly ever do any bad things to you? R.F.: No. Detective: Not at all? R.F.: No. Detective: Did Kelly ever hurt you? R.F.: No. Detective: Do these look familiar? R.F.: What are them [sic]? Detective: You tell me what they are? R.F.: Knife. Detective: Knife. R.F.: Do you have anything to eat in here? Detective: We're going to pretend that this is a spoon, O.K.? R.F.: O.K., and this is a knife. Detective: Did Kelly ever do anything to you with a knife that hurt you? Or bad things to you with a knife? R.F.: No. Detective: No. O.K. Do [sic] she ever do bad things or hurt you with a spoon?  No. Did she ever do bad things or hurt you with a knife  I mean fork? OK. What about a wooden spoon? Did you ever see her do bad things or hurt anybody? R.F.: Um, no. After concluding the discussion of utensils, and whether Kelly had used utensils on R.F. or any other child, the discussion once again focused on Kelly's alleged mistreatment of R.F. The questioning of this child continued for several more transcript pages. In an attempt to obtain additional information from R.F., the detective told her that he had spoken to several of her friends already and that the information she could provide would help her friends.