Opinion ID: 459825
Heading Depth: 3
Heading Rank: 1

Heading: Lack of Substantial Evidence on the Record

Text: 29 Because we find that the interview of Lewis concerned a grievance, the only remaining question is the formality of the discussion. In determining whether a discussion should be considered formal, the FLRA examines the totality of facts and circumstances presented. We find that in the present case, the FLRA's reversal of the ALJ's finding that the interview was formal is not supported by substantial evidence on the record and constitutes an unexplained departure from agency precedent. 30 The FLRA's conclusion that the interview was not formal runs counter to the undisputed evidence. The ALJ found, and the FLRA does not dispute, that the meeting was initiated by management; it was held away from Lewis' normal work area, lasted twenty to thirty minutes, and was marked by the taking of notes by a high level management representative. The FLRA concluded that these undisputed indicia of formality were outweighed by the fact that none of the interviewers were in Lewis' chain of supervision. 13 The FLRA also cites as support for its conclusion the lack of a clear finding that Lewis' presence was mandatory and the lack of evidence on the record of any advance notice of the meeting or any formal agenda distributed in advance of the meeting. 31 Previous FLRA cases have relied on lack of advance notice and distributed agenda as indications that a meeting was spontaneous and therefore unlikely to be formal. 14 These factors, however, do not always correlate with spontaneity and thus mere absence of notice or an agenda will not necessarily indicate that a meeting is not formal. In fact, the available evidence in this record indicates the contrary conclusion: that the interview of Lewis was planned in advance. For an attorney and two labor relations specialists to meet at the office of one of the labor relations specialists and in a single day interview all of the witnesses to be called at an MSPB hearing surely indicates some advance preparation. Cf. Office of Program Operations, Field Operations, Social Security Administration, 9 F.L.R.A. at 50 (refusing to find formal meeting where district manager was at the office on other business and not as a consequence of any advance arrangements). Lack of notice and formal agenda, therefore, offer negligible evidence of informality, since the inference that these factors are sufficient to support, i.e., that the interview might have been an impromptu gathering, is directly contradicted by more powerful evidence. 32 The lack of a clear finding that Lewis' continued presence at the interview was mandatory is similarly not controlling as to informality. The evidence concerning what the interviewers told Lewis at the start of the interview is contradictory, and the ALJ never resolved the question of the compulsory nature of the interview. Cf. 13 F.L.R.A. 27, 31 n. 1. Where an employee interview is characterized by strong indicators of formality, such as the fact that an employee was summoned to a meeting initiated by three management representatives and held on management's terrain, an asserted lack of clear evidence on a single disputed point such as whether the continued presence of the employee was compulsory cannot carry the day for the agency. This is especially true where the FLRA has declined to offer its own assessment of the credibility of the witnesses or to find that Lewis' presence was in fact not compulsory. 15 33 Finally, the FLRA does not explain why the fact that the interviewers were not in Lewis' direct chain of supervision outweighs the fact that the interviewers were nonetheless management representatives. The focus of prior FLRA decisions has been on whether management representatives attended a discussion. Thus, personnel specialists who addressed employees at an orientation session were considered representatives of the agency and the FLRA found the meeting to be a formal one. See Department of HEW, Region IV, Atlanta, Ga. and National Treasury Employees Union, 5 F.L.R.A. 458, 460 (1981). Prior FLRA cases have not required a showing that the agency representatives were within the employee's chain of supervision. See Internal Revenue Service and National Treasury Employees Union, 11 F.L.R.A. 69, 71 (1983) (finding a formal discussion between employees and members of a task force composed of managerial and supervisory officials where No task force member interviewed any employee from his own district.), aff'd mem. sub nom. National Treasury Employees Union v. Federal Labor Relations Authority, 725 F.2d 126 (D.C.Cir.1984). 34 The Authority considered the totality of facts and circumstances and concluded that the interview of Lewis was not formal in nature. We find this conclusion unsupported by substantial evidence on the record as a whole. Where a discussion to which management summoned an employee is attended by three management representatives, at least one of whom has some responsibilities in the disciplinary process, 16 is held away from the employee's work station in the office of that management representative, lasts for twenty to thirty minutes, and is marked by the taking of notes, the fact that the management representatives are not in an employee's direct chain of supervision does not outweigh or sufficiently negate the other evidence of formality. Therefore, we find the record as a whole does not support the FLRA's conclusion to the contrary.