Opinion ID: 78121
Heading Depth: 2
Heading Rank: 2

Heading: Rose Grindhein Sims

Text: DEFENSE: What can you tell the jury about Rick's belief in God, about his religious faith? SIMS: I first met Richard's grandmother when she came to our church, and then I called on her and then I called on Richard, Sr. And then he began bringing Richard to church with his wife, Pam. . . . . I probably have known Richard better than most other people have in the last three years because I've counseled with him over and over and over again. And when I counsel with him, I counsel that he accept Christ as his savior, and Richard did this. After a great struggle, both he and [his first wife] Pam accepted Christ. And the day that they accepted Christ, Pam said, Does this mean that I have to stay with Richard? I said, God isn't going to keep you out of heaven if you get a divorce. You have to try to make it work, but both he and Pam accepted Christ. And the second Sunday after that, I think, with great sincerity, both he and Pam came forward to profess their faith in Christ. He has never rejected that decision that he made. I baptized him. . . . . He was a brand new Christian. He was stumbling. He was growing. He was trying to do God's will and we shared together in many ways.
PROSECUTOR: Reverend Sims, you indicated earlier, I think, that you counseled with Rick SIMS: Yes. PROSECUTOR:about Christ and his Christian faith. Is that correct? SIMS: Yes, I sure did. PROSECUTOR: And that was sometime prior to December of 1987. Is that correct? SIMS: Yes, sir. PROSECUTOR: And correct me if I'm wrong. I'm Baptist and I think basically we believe the same thing. SIMS: I was a Baptist minister's wife for many years. PROSECUTOR: When you counseled with him, you explained to him, did you not, that he has personal responsibility for his sins. Is that right? SIMS: Absolutely. PROSECUTOR: And that he is responsible before God and everybody else for the sins he's committed. Is that correct? SIMS: Yes. That we confess them to Christ and he forgives them. PROSECUTOR: And he understood that concept. SIMS: He understood that one sin, but all of us have sinned. All of us have done things wrong. PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. And the wages of sin is death. SIMS: Exactly. PROSECUTOR: Did you discuss with Rick, I'm sure, sins and the Ten Commandments, and that one of the sins is thou shall not kill or commit murder. Correct? SIMS: Sir, I said to him that no sin that you commit or that anyone commits is any different, that God forgives all sins equally. That's why I said if they were divorced, God would not hold that sin any worse than any other sin. PROSECUTOR: Right. But nonetheless, that is a sin, is it not? SIMS: Each transgression is a sin. PROSECUTOR: Okay. SIMS: Yours and mine. PROSECUTOR: Right. So regardless of Christ's acceptance of him and Christ's forgiveness of him, SIMS: Yes. PROSECUTOR:does not the [B]ible teach, I'm sure you explained to Rick, that regardless of that forgiveness, he still has personal responsibility for the act that he committed on Christmas of 1987. Is that correct? DEFENSE: Objection. That's been asked and answered, his personal responsibility. THE COURT: Objection overruled. PROSECUTOR: Is that correct, ma'am? SIMS: Sir, I have never said that he committed an act on Christmas Eve. PROSECUTOR: If this jury has found that he committed murder on Christmas, 1987, is he not, before God and everybody else, personally responsible for that act? SIMS: You're an attorney. PROSECUTOR: Ma'am, SIMS: The law says that. Right? PROSECUTOR: Is that correct? SIMS: Each person is responsible for anything that we do. PROSECUTOR: Right? SIMS: Life does not hold us irresponsible just because you're a Christian. PROSECUTOR: That's correct. SIMS: And I'm not indicating that. PROSECUTOR: Okay. I just want to make sure that we understand that we're talking about two different responsibilities. SIMS: Absolutely. I understand that. PROSECUTOR: Okay. Do you hold a personal belief about the death penalty? SIMS: I don't believe that's the question here, and I don't think that that is PROSECUTOR: Ma'am, SIMS: Yes. PROSECUTOR:I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt, but DEFENSE: Your Honor, I'm going to have to object to this question. THE COURT: Objection overruled. PROSECUTOR: Would you answer the question, please, ma'am? SIMS: I don't believe that is the question here. I think there's a whole lot of difference between a Bundy and a boy like this. PROSECUTOR: Your Honor, would you instruct the witness THE COURT: Ma'am, just answer the question. It calls for a yes or no, or if you feel like a yes or no is inadequate, then I'll let you explain it. SIMS: I think a yes or no is inadequate. THE COURT: Then you've got to say one or the other and then explain it. SIMS: Okay. I believe that there are circumstances. PROSECUTOR: Yes, ma'am. SIMS: Right. PROSECUTOR: Circumstances that would warrant a death penalty. SIMS: Yes. When there is absolute evidence, when there are fingerprints,