Opinion ID: 331405
Heading Depth: 2
Heading Rank: 1

Heading: restrictions on witness interviews

Text: 6 About a week before the commencement of the trial, at a pretrial conference on May 12, 1975, the trial judge told counsel 'that if any one of you seeks to interview a witness in the absence of opposite counsel, that you do it with a stenographer present and so that it can be available to the Court, for the Court to see it, and I think that is the kind of condition that I would ask you to live up to.' (Tr. 71) (Emphasis supplied). This direction was restated, in substance, during the trial. (Tr. 603). 7 The Court's ruling grew out of IBM's efforts to interview some of the individuals appearing on the Government's lengthy list of witnesses. We are told (and the Government has submitted no proof in contradiction) that upon learning of these interviews the Government ordered witnesses--two in particular, a Mr. Kraft and Lt. General Phillips--not to proceed with the interviews. Accordingly, both those prospective witnesses cancelled their interview appointments. 2 8 As was to be expected, the Court's order proved to be quite unworkable. IBM found it difficult to arrange interviews with witnesses, usually corporate executives with offices outside New York City, at times and places which were convenient to both the witnesses and opposing counsel. Moreover, interviews in the presence of opposing counsel did not lend themselves to the free and open discussion which IBM sought. Interviews transcribed by court reporters were a most unattractive alternative. 9 The trial judge apparently looked upon an interview as the taking of a deposition. In fact, there is little relation between them. A lawyer talks to a witness to ascertain what, if any, information the witness may have relevant to his theory of the case, and to explore the witness' knowledge, memory and opinion--frequently in light of information counsel may have developed from other sources. This is part of an attorney's so-called work product. 3 It is the common experience of counsel at the trial bar that a potential witness, upon reflection, will often change, modify or expand upon his original statement and that a second or third interview will be productive of greater accuracy. Little wonder then that a witness being interviewed, as in two cases mentioned by IBM, would not wish to have his initial thoughts taken down by a court reporter as if it were sworn testimony in court. 4 10 We find disturbing the stated purpose of the order 'so that it can be available to the Court, for the Court to see it'. This condition is tantamount to an insistence that the trial judge be present at every interview and thus become cognizant of each proposed witness' statements even though such witness may never be called upon to testify. Again, it is common experience that, in presenting his case, counsel will offer the important (in his opinion) testimony which supports his theory of the case and discard the unimportant, his opponent having the same privilege. 11 We believe that the restrictions on interviewing set by the trial judge exceeded his authority. They not only impair the constitutional right to effective assistance of counsel but are contrary to time-honored and decision-honored principles, namely, that counsel for all parties have a right to interview an adverse party's witnesses (the witness willing) in private, without the presence or consent of opposing counsel and without a transcript being made. And, since the role of the trial judge is to pass upon the admissibility of proof, when and as offered, and to render his decision upon admitted proof, it follows that witness statements, if taken, should not be made available to the court in advance. 12 There is no question but that the trial judge did not intend adverse results to flow from his rulings. On the contrary, the record indicates that he felt the establishment of formalized interview procedures would aid the Court in its ultimate determination on the merits 5 and would also insure the integrity of the trial by guarding against the exercise of undue influence upon prospective witnesses by interviewing attorneys. 6 13 Both of these purposes are indicative of the high standards which Judge Edelstein has set for the conduct of this extraordinarily complex and massive lawsuit, and we agree that it is vital for the Court to make decisions which are as informed as possible, based upon testimony which represents the true opinion and conclusions of the witness who offers it. However, we are in disagreement as to the method best suited to achieve this end. In particular, we are concerned that the means chosen by Judge Edelstein have unduly infringed upon counsels' ability to prepare their case for trial, and have, in addition, lessened the effectiveness of that trial by placing before the Court, not the case as finally prepared and refined by counsel, but rather a hodgepodge of information accumulated in the early stages of counsel's preparation. We believe that it does a disservice both to the parties and to the Court to subject to the Court's scrutiny the process by which counsel researches, develops and integrates the case which he ultimately presents. Counsel cannot be expected to have formulated a finished presentation at the outset of his preparation and endeavors. To require that his initial investigatory efforts be of a quality which counsel would willingly include as part of his client's final case is to set up an impossible standard; to ask him to submit his initial probings, notwithstanding their lack of effectiveness in his client's behalf, is in effect to ask counsel to deny his client the effective representation to which he is entitled. See, Code of Professional Responsibility, Canon 7. 14 The legitimate need for confidentiality in the conduct of attorneys' interviews, with the goals of maximizing unhampered access to information and insuring the presentation of the best possible case at trial, was given definitive recognition by the Supreme Court in Hickman v. Taylor, 329 U.S. 495, 67 S.Ct. 385, 91 L.Ed. 451 (1947). In that case, a suit for damages growing out of the accidental sinking of a tugboat, the defense attorney was ordered by the District Court to produce all written statements of witnesses made prior to trial, and to further disclose information gathered through oral interviews which the attorney did not subsequently record. Because the court's opinion is so pertinent to the petition presently before this Court, we quote from it at length. 15 Proper preparation of a client's case demands that he assemble information, sift what he considers to be the relevant from the irrelevant facts, prepare his legal theories and plan his strategy without undue and needless interference. That is the historical and the necessary way in which lawyers act within the framework of our system of jurisprudence to promote justice and to protect their clients' interests. This work is reflected, of course, in interviews, statements, memoranda, correspondence, briefs, mental impressions, personal beliefs, and countless other tangible and intangible ways--aptly through roughly termed by the Circuit Court of Appeals in this case (153 F.2d 212, 223) as the 'Work product of the lawyer.' Were such materials open to opposing counsel on mere demand, much of what is now put down in writing would remain unwritten. An attorney's thoughts, heretofore inviolate, would not be his own. Inefficiency, unfairness and sharp practices would inevitably develop in the giving of legal advice and in the preparation of cases for trial. The effect on the legal profession would be demoralizing. And the interests of the clients and the cause of justice would be poorly served. 16 (A)s to oral statements made by witnesses to Fortenbaugh, whether presently in the form of his mental impressions or memoranda, we do not believe that any showing of necessity can be made under the circumstances of this case so as to justify production. Under ordinary conditions, forcing an attorney to repeat or write out all that witnesses have told him and to deliver the account to his adversary gives rise to grave dangers of inaccuracy and untrustworthiness. No legitimate purpose is served by such production. The practice forces the attorney to testify as to what he remembers or what he saw fit to write down regarding witnesses' remarks. Such testimony could not qualify as evidence; and to use it for impeachment or corroborative purposes would make the attorney much less an officer of the court and much more an ordinary witness. The standard of the profession would thereby suffer. 17 Denial of production of this nature does not mean that any material, nonprivileged facts can be hidden from the petitioner in this case. He need not be unduly hindered in the preparation of his case, in the discovery of facts or in his anticipation of his opponents' position. Searching interrogatories directed to Fortenbaugh and the tug owners, production of written documents and statements upon a proper showing and direct interviews with the witnesses themselves all serve to reveal the facts in Fortenbaugh's possession to the fullest possible extent consistent with public policy. 18 329 U.S. at 511, 512--13, 67 S.Ct. at 393--4, 394--5. 19 Numerous cases since Hickman have upheld, absent a showing of undue hardship or prejudice, the confidentiality of statements taken by counsel in the course of pre-trial interviews. See, e.g., Dingler v. Halycon Linjn N.V.,50 F.R.D. 211 (E.D.Pa.1970); Herrick v. Barber Steamship Lines, Inc., 41 F.R.D. 51 (S.D.N.Y.1966); Koss v. American Steamship Company, 27 F.R.D. 511 (E.D.Mich.1960). 20 Building on the rationale of Hickman, courts have also specifically forbidden interference with the preparation of a client's defense by restricting his counsel's ability to freely interview witnesses willing to speak with him. In Gregory v. United States, 125 U.S.App.D.C. 140, 369 F.2d 185 (1966), a prosecutor advised witnesses not to talk to anyone unless he, the prosecutor, were present. The Court of Appeals disallowed such conduct on the ground that it amounted to impermissible interference with the preparation of defendant's defense: 21 (W)e know of nothing in the law which gives the prosecutor the right to interfere with the preparation of the defense by effectively denying defense counsel access to the witnesses except in his presence. . . . 22 We do not, of course, impugn the motives of the prosecutor in giving his advice to the witnesses. Tampering with witnesses and subordination of perjury are real dangers, especially in a capital case. But there are ways to avert this danger without denying defense counsel access to eye witnesses to the events in suit unless the prosecutor is present to monitor the interview. We cannot indulge the assumption that this tactic on the part of the prosecution is necessary. . . . 23 A criminal trial, like its civil counterpart, is a quest for truth. That quest will more often be successful if both sides have an equal opportunity to interview the persons who have the information from which the truth may be determined. . . . It is not suggested here that there was any direct suppression of evidence. But there was unquestionably a suppression of the means by which the defense could obtain evidence. The defense could not know what the eye witnesses to the events in suit were to testify to or how firm they were in their testimony unless defense counsel was provided a fair opportunity for interview. In our judgment the prosecutor's advice to these eye witnesses frustrated that effort and denied appellant a fair trial. 24 369 F.2d at 188--9. 25 The same conclusion has been reached in this Circuit, and we support it wholeheartedly. In Coppolino v. Helpern, 266 F.Supp. 930 (S.D.N.Y.1967), the District Court stated that: 26 (A)s to interviewing a prospective prosecution witness, our constitutional notions of fair play and due process dictate that defense counsel be free from obstruction, whether it come from the prosecutor in the case or from a state official or another state acting under color of law. 27 A trial is a search for the truth. This is no less true in a criminal matter than in a civil matter. . . . A lawyer may properly interview any witness or prospective witness for the opposing side in any civil or criminal case without the consent of opposing counsel. . . . The right to effective counsel embraces more than just the right to retain counsel. 28 266 F.Supp. at 935--6. 29 The same theme was reiterated in Johnston v. National Broadcasting Co., 356 F.Supp. 904 (E.D.N.Y.1973) wherein the Court capsulized the rule as follows: 30 While it is true that any witness has the right to refuse to be interviewed if he so desires, . . . it is equally true that the State may not bar a prospective witness from speaking with defense counsel, when and if such witness so desires. (citations omitted) 356 F.Supp. at 910. 31 For all the reasons above set forth, we grant the petition for relief from the District Court's rulings relating to the conduct of out-of-court interviews. Such interviews may be conducted confidentially, without the presence of opposing counsel or reporter, whenever the person interviewed is willing to proceed in this manner. 32