Opinion ID: 6107541
Heading Depth: 5
Heading Rank: 3

Heading: The Statements at the Station

Text: Chicoine testified that at the station, defendant stopped by the rear of the car and  said,  'I have a question.'  Chicoine said,  'What?'  and defendant told him that he wanted to get this over with ... that he had been speaking with inmates in the prison and they told him not to talk to the police. He said he knows that the public defender would tell him not to talk to the police, but he told me that he had to walk in his shoes, that they don't have to walk in his shoes. He just wants to get closure from this, and he just wants to tell the story, and get it over with. Chicoine told him to wait until they got into the building, where they would give him another opportunity after reading him his rights. Chicoine understood defendant to be saying that he wanted to discuss the McKenna murder. 7  Defendant was taken to an interview room, where the conversation was video and audiotaped. Dudek began by reciting that 10 days earlier, he and Chicoine had gone to San Quentin and spoken with defendant. He said, You were advised of your Miranda rights prior to the interview and at some point in the interview you told us that you wanted to invoke your Miranda rights, and you wanted to consult with an attorney before you talked to us, is that correct? Defendant said, Correct. Dudek then said, at some point during the transportation from San Quentin, you then told us you wanted to talk to us, and, and hear what we had to say, and, and didn't want your attorney present anymore, correct?'' Defendant paused and replied, I didn't have an attorney present. Dudek said, That's what I mean though, you, you said you wanted to talk to us and you understood you were now waiving your rights to have an attorney present, is what I meant to say, if I didn't make that clear. And, and that's kinda where we're at right now, if that's correct, then I want to go ahead and re-read you your rights so you understand them again, so at any point you can go ahead and invoke your rights again. You follow me?  Defendant answered, Oh, ok, so I do want to talk to an attorney? Dudek repeated that defendant was read his rights on the 21st, and had said he wanted to talk to an attorney. Defendant said, Right. Dudek said, On the trip over here, you said now I want to talk to you for a little while, I want to make sure that's clear, and then I'm gonna read your rights again, so you know we can talk, because you approached us, to talk to us but then at a point, you can always re ..., you're not giving up your rights, I'm just gonna re-advise you that at, at this interview point you can again say no, stop. Defendant said, [Stop] if I wanted to. Dudek asked if what he had said was accurate, and defendant agreed it was. Dudek said, So you're freely giving up your rights at this point here, and then I'm gonna advise him. You approached us, is the only thing I'm getting to, is that correct? Defendant said, Uh-huh. Dudek said, Without any promises from us or anything, correct? Defendant said, Correct. Dudek then told defendant at this point I'm gonna re-advise you of your rights, and then we can start talking again, okay? He repeated the Miranda rights; defendant acknowledged he understood each one. The officers began the interrogation by telling him they had spoken with his wife. Defendant said he knew what she had told them. They then discussed his son Robert, and the psychological issues he had been dealing with as a result of his interaction with defendant on the day of the murder. They talked about defendant's drug habit at the time. Defendant said it had been out of control. Dudek brought up the importance of closure, for defendant and for Susie's family. Defendant agreed this was important. Chicoine asked, Carl did things just get out of hand? Defendant said, [Neh,] yeah. Dudek said, It's gonna be painful that it got out of hand, to the point where she died, correct? And you understand that, right? Defendant replied, I understand. Can I ask you a question? Dudek said Sure. Defendant said, I don't actually want to relive this. He affirmed Dudek's comments that [y]ou know where we're heading and we want to go  over every fine detail. Defendant then interjected, my thing is, is this. In a series of  statements interspersed with brief acknowledgments from the officers, he told them, if I choose to say what happened, all the way down the whole 411, whatever, right? I just .... I don't have to live it again after this. If I give this testimony now, I say whatever I have to say now, I don't want to live it again. Dudek told defendant that his having admitted to things getting out of hand was a step in the right direction. You have to take it to at least to the part, where you have to give us some of the details. Whether it's painful or not, we don't have to sit here and harp on ya, and say, how come this and how come  that? Go through it. Once you get it off your chest Carl, it, it's not gonna be as difficult as you think, and if it does get difficult, we're not gonna sit here and, and badger you. Defendant asked if what he said would be in the newspaper. He continued, Whatever I say I, you know it's, it's bad enough that you know like, you know I've already fucked up, and I you know, I wanna just, I don't want it to be in the paper and have my kids hurt anymore than they already are. Dudek said the way the information would become public was if there were a trial, and there's certain ways that you can get closure where it may not even go into trial, and that's a decision that you're gonna have to make. Defendant said I just want to, I want to get it over. He said, If I can ask you this question, and this is the question that concerns me, all right? In another series of statements interspersed with acknowledgments from Dudek, defendant said, What I would like, you know I can talk to you guys. I can even talk to the DA. You know, with my Public Defender there or whatever right, and after I say what I have to say, just ask to be sentenced, if I can be sentenced. You know I'm not asking for a jury trial 'cause I don't want a jury trial. I just want you know, if I can, if what I'm saying, if I can have that, right, I can get this all over with. ... I understand you thought you guys say you can't promise me that. Dudek told defendant he would be absolutely lying to you if I told you that, 'cause that's just not the way the system works, okay? But can we let 'em, can we let 'em know that that's your request? We can let them know verbally and they're gonna watch this, too. Defendant asked if he could sit down wit' you two and the DA, right? Can I sit down with the DA? Chicoine told him, Carl after this it's all over. Defendant said, It's all in their hands? Chicoine said, It's all over there. Right now this is, I'm, I'm the one that has to talk to the family, man. That's, that's my concern, man. My concern is just making sure everything now is at peace. Obviously it's not like peace with you. Dudek said, Carl you've already started in the right direction here too, you've already said I killed Susan, or Susie. Defendant said, Yeah. Dudek said, Ok so no matter what you say at this point here is only gonna benefit Carl, because Carl's gonna be able to tell his side of the story. Chicoine suggested that defendant's drug habit may have been the reason, but that we need to kinda hear that from you though. Dudek said, You got to tell us what you're gonna tell us. There's a way actually and they have a DA that's on stand by for murders, and when murder defendants, which you are, okay, start to talk, like you're starting to talk to us okay, they'll get a DA up here today, okay? To, to come back and they'll come in and they'll ask you questions too, from the DA, not from the cops'  standpoint. But we got to know what you're gonna tell the DA, and that can happen today, okay? So I, within probably an hour, forty five minutes we can have a DA up here to say, 'hey the cops already told ya, what I did yeah, this  is what I want,' okay? And that can, that can happen today okay? But you know the hardest part is, is you've already done it and you know what that is. Defendant said, Ok. After obtaining assurances that a district attorney would be on the way if they called for one, he said, You call them now, and, Come back and we'll continue. While Dudek was out calling the district attorney, Chicoine asked defendant whether he want[ed] to have everybody here all at once? Defendant said he didn't wanna live this whole story over, that it eats me up  more and more and more and more, that he was tired of it, that he was at peace with God but had to live with the consequences of what I've done, and this conversation I only want to say it one time. The DA comes in, he looks [and] he listens to it, you know, I want to get over with it. He added, I've made peace with me, but I it has to come out. Dudek returned and said it would take the DA thirty to forty minutes to get there. He told defendant, You're not gonna leave here until you talk to him. Defendant indicated that he understood, and Dudek proceeded to question him. Defendant described a consensual sexual encounter when he and McKenna were both loaded. They drank. He used crack cocaine; she methamphetamine. It became rough sex when, during intercourse, she starts to like hitting me, slapping me. Their prior sexual encounter had been different. He said it was possible that he bit her, and answered Yeah when Dudek asked whether she asked him to choke her. He had used her panties or bra, but she said it wasn't tight enough. He could not remember what he used to exert more pressure. The officers told him she was found with a shoelace around her neck. Defendant said, I learned so much here. Asked Probably from what? he said, My own shoes. He had panicked when he realized she was dead, and dragged her into the bathroom to try to clean up. The next day he went back to make sure he hadn't left anything in McKenna's cottage. Someone knocked on the door and saw him inside, so he ran. The only thing defendant could remember saying when Robert found him in the storage unit was not to tell anyone he was there. Dudek returned to the circumstances of the killing, asking if McKenna had asked defendant to stop. He said no, and told Dudek, I didn't rape her. But he conceded she may have asked him to stop choking, he simply didn't know. When Deputy District Attorney Andy Sweet arrived, he turned first to the circumstances of his statements that day. Defendant acknowledged that he had previously invoked his Miranda rights, but then wanted to talk. When  asked, What changed from before to now? defendant said, I just ... I'm ... I'm tired. Sweet said, It was your decision to start talking. Defendant agreed, saying, It was my decision. I'm tired now. In my mind, they didn't press the issue, understand me? Sweet turned on a tape recorder, though the conversation was already being recorded, and again advised defendant of his Miranda rights, obtaining an express waiver. He returned to defendant's decision to talk, saying, When they came to pick you up today, some place between San Quentin and here, the Sheriff's Department in Alameda County, you started talking to the officers about your case and about what was going on. Isn't that true? Defendant said, That's correct. He reaffirmed that he changed his mind because he was tired and I just want closure, and that it was [m]y decision. He said the officers had not said or done anything that made him think he had to talk to them,  adding, I asked them on the way here if I would be able to talk to a DA. Sweet asked, Would it be a fair statement to say that you reinitiated kind of the discussion about the case? Defendant answered, Ok. I, it, that would be fair because I asked like if I will be straight up with you both like I was with them, right. I understand ok, I don't have the money for a public defender, blah blah blah. Right. But I understand my public defender said well, look you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that because they're not here. Ok. I know what I did. All right. And I just want to get it over with. He agreed with Sweet's statement that They didn't ask you any questions, you were the one asking them questions to start the conversation going again. Correct? He said, They made me no promises or anything. My only, my main concern was that you were to come down here. Defendant gave Sweet essentially the same version of the crime he had just given the officers. Under the influence of drugs, he and McKenna had engaged in rough sex, and she asked him to choke her. He didn't intend that she die. He said McKenna was the aggressor that night, taking off his clothes. He twice emphasized that he did not rape her. After the intercourse ended, he noticed she wasn't breathing. He panicked and tried to clean up. The next day he returned to clean  up more, and fled when seen. The only thing he remembered telling his son was not to tell anyone where he was.