Opinion ID: 6107541
Heading Depth: 5
Heading Rank: 2

Heading: The Conversation in the Car

Text: A complaint was filed on March 27, 2003, charging defendant with murder. An arrest warrant issued, and on March 31, Dudek and Chicoine drove to San Quentin to take defendant into custody. They told him he was under arrest for the murder. Chicoine testified that when the officers first encountered defendant in a receiving area at the prison, he told them that he had been meaning to call us, that he had already talked to a counselor and that he intended to call us. There had been no contact with defendant since the last interview, but he said [h]e knew we'd be coming back. Chicoine understood defendant's statements as a reinitiation of the discussion at the end of the March 21 interview, when he had said he did want to talk to us, he wanted to explain what was going on. The court asked if that was only what Chicoine thought defendant meant, or if defendant expressly said he wanted to talk to them. Chicoine answered, It sounded to me that that's exactly what he meant. The court commented, But he didn't overtly say 'I want to talk to you now.'  Chicoine said, Yes, he did. He said he wanted to talk to us. He had already talk[ed] to his counselor and that he meant to call us. Chicoine told defendant to wait and that we would get an opportunity to talk to him later. On cross-examination, Chicoine said he could not remember defendant's exact words, but I know that it was very close to - he said that he wanted to - that he meant or intended to call us, and that he had just wanted to get this over  with. The court asked whether defendant made this statement before or after being told he was under arrest. Chicoine could not remember the sequence of the exchange. 5 Dudek drove from San Quentin to the station. Chicoine sat behind him and defendant was in the right rear seat. When they got into the car, Dudek turned on a tape recorder placed on the front passenger seat. At the outset of the ensuing conversation, Dudek asked defendant if he had any questions or anything. Defendant said he was in limbo. Dudek replied, You're in limbo? Is that, is that a good thing or a bad thing being in limbo? Defendant said he didn't know. Dudek asked him, Know what's going on or no? Defendant replied, [No,] run it down. Chicoine told defendant he would be arraigned, hopefully on Wednesday. After a pause, defendant asked, What's it look like I'm facing? Dudek said obviously we can't tell one way or the other, but, I don't know. You understand the charge, right? Defendant gave an affirmative response, and silence ensued. Dudek resumed the conversation, saying I've seen better, I've seen worse. That's a pretty chicken shit answer but .... And obviously we'd like to have an explanation, but we're not in that position because of what you said the other day, but if you'd like to give an explanation then we're gonna give you another opportunity once we get to our station. That's kind of where  we're at right now. And obviously, you know, we're a little bit more at liberty to tell you some things that we didn't tell you the other day that we can tell you now. That'll come out if you want it to, but [you kind of hold the,] you're kind of in control here right now to say yeah, go ahead and tell me or I don't give a shit, I'll find out sooner or later, so .... Defendant said, Tell me. Dudek replied, Alright. Does that mean you want to talk to us again or does that mean you just wanna, let me explain what's gonna go on now and then maybe [you'll answer] our questions.  You're gonna go back, we're gonna put you in an interview room, we're gonna read you your rights again, we're gonna go over the fact that we were out to talk to you a week ago, ten days ago actually it is now, and at that point you talked to us a little bit and you said hey, at this point here you want to talk to your counselor, you wanted to talk to whoever, and, and, we'll go over that again ... if at that point you say I wanna know a little bit more, I wanna talk to you about it a little bit more then we'll go from there, and that's where we're at, OK? Defendant said, [All right]. Dudek continued, So, even if it's one sided and you say hey, I want to talk to you and you don't say nothing, you gotta tell us I want to have the  conversation be more of a two-sided conversation. Cause I think that's only fair to us and you've been in the system, you know what I mean? I'm not here to clown you, like I told you the other day, you know. And it's only right that you say yeah, let's go ahead and I want to hear what's up, and then once you give us that, and if you decide at one point again, you know what, I'm hurting enough, and, and then we stop again, so. I think truthfully, and you know this too, and you even said it, that, you know, you, I think you did want to go on with a little bit more, and I think there's probably stuff that you do want to share with us that we may not know about, but ... [¶] ... Now ultimately ... [¶] ... You know, and the bottom line is too, is, is, is ultimately there's always a story behind everything, and unfortunately when it comes down to the charging part of it, we're, we're, this is kind of a one shot deal here. You get your [opportunity to] say this is where we're at, or let's see how it shakes out, and then that's [a decision you,] Carl Molano the, the, the, the 46, 47 year old [dude's gotta make]. I, I can't, Scott or Ed can't do that for you. You have to do it on your own, you know what I mean? At this point Chicoine interjected, Right now, there's a story [that's being told, but it doesn't have your side]. Dudek resumed, I'll be more than happy, and so would Ed, we'd [be] more than happy to share exactly, you know, how the story even started. Why are we at this point after so many years, and, and, and, you know, a lot of that has to do with, with your family and, and, and, and it's only fair that you know that cause you are gonna know and my credibility and Ed's credibility with you is gonna mean everything as far as this goes. If you think I'm a big bullshitter, horse's ass, and you think he is, there's no sense of us even going any further, you know what I mean? And you're gonna find that what we tell you is ultimately, you know, we're not bullshitting you, so. Defendant said, No, you guys been straight up. Dudek replied, I mean we're, we're trying to be that way cause this is what we do. You, you got to do what you got to do, we got to do want we got to do, you know what I mean, and, and I was up front with you when I said the other day, I said I, I mean, I know Suzy's not an angel, or wasn't an angel, you know what I mean, and, and there could be some other  factors, but that, that's .... At this point Dudek evidently took a wrong turn, which interrupted the conversation briefly. He resumed with, like Ed said, there's two sides to every story, you know what I mean? I mean, you can tell by where we were going that we obviously talked to a bunch of people and somebody, you know, and, and, quite frankly, you know, we talked to your ex old lady who told us some stuff and we talked to some other people, so that's kind of, that's kind of where we're at. Defendant said, I ought to be arraigned Wednesday [and assigned a] (unintelligible). Dudek told him, [Nuh.] You'll probably just be arraigned,  they'll ask you your financial status, more than likely you'll be assigned a PD your next court appearance, but you could get one right off the get go on something like this, I'm, I'm, probably you will actually. Defendant said, Can I ask you a question? Dudek answered, Sure. Defendant said, They assign me a PD, right? Dudek said, Right. Defendant said, I can sit down and talk to my PD first, then talk with you all? Dudek replied, Yeah. Defendant said, Can I do that? Dudek told him, Yeah. I mean, that's one of your options and that's why we're here, you know. Defendant said, That's, I would, I would (unintelligible).  Dudek responded, Ok. If you're [gonna go through] that formally when we get to the tape, we're gonna say Carl Molano, you understand you're being charged with this, and then, ... and then we're gonna go through the rights thing again. It's at that time, you know, you can say hey, let me talk to my PD and I'll talk to you again, but, you know, that's entirely up to you. We're here only to do shit on the up-and-up. If we don't do it on the up-and-up then we might as well just throw it away right now, you know what I mean? After a pause, Dudek said, I know I read some of your letters and I know you know I read them, when you were, you were out there the other day with your other daughter, your daughter there, the 4.0 whiz kid there, you know. I, I can't think of, Regina, is that her name? Defendant said, Jasmine. Dudek said, It sounds like you're starting to, you know, at least head in the right direction there with a relationship with her. Irregardless whether you talk to us or not, when we get to our station I think it's only fair that you know that, is it Robert? Robert's your 17 year old son? Robert played a fairly key role in this as far as where we're at right now, and I just don't want it to be a, a, a mind blower from you when it comes out, ok? So, that's kind of, you know, you've got one relationship by your own admittance you're trying to get back together when you were talking to us the other day, and, and really said you hadn't talked to Robert or your other, was it son, from, from your that wife? Defendant said, Yeah. Dudek continued, But I think what I'm asking you probably, from my standpoint [as a dad and stuff,] that you've got to rebuild and don't take it out on your kids. They, they had to do what they had to do, so, you know what I mean? Dudek continued, Ok. So, unfortunately, Robert's had a lot of problems over the years because of, you know, the stuff and, and Robert felt he had to do what he had to do, and you'll probably never have a relationship with Robert, but in the scheme of things hopefully you'll, you'll view it as Robert's becoming a man, that type of thing, you know what I mean? And I think the reason I'm telling you this is because when I first talked to your ex-wife, the first thing was well, of course she's coming forward because she  can't stand your guts because, you know what I mean? Defendant said, Yeah I know.  Dudek said, So that's something that, that the whole thing weighed on, so. After an extended pause, Dudek asked about the temperature in the back seat, then opened a new topic: Other thing too is, and then this is just kind of [weird], obviously this, this murder occurred in 1995. It's gonna be fairly a, a big deal in the newspapers and probably even the media and stuff because it's, you know, it's an eight year old homicide, so I'm just kind of preparing you for that. I don't know, I mean I know your mom's not around anymore, but if you think there's somebody you may want to prepare for it, you may want to let us know that so we can tell them before they hear it on the 7 o'clock news [tonight], i.e. your, your daughter, or whoever else, know what I mean? After a long pause, there was some talk about the art work defendant had done, and his life in prison. After another extended pause, Dudek asked if defendant had told anyone about their previous visit. Defendant said inmates had seen them, but Dudek said, I meant family or something, not inmates. Defendant asked, I can give you two numbers to call? Dudek said, I can let you call two numbers, how's that? I don't really like to tell people what's up. I'd rather have them hear it from you, or, you know, I mean if you don't want to do that I understand, but it's up to you. That's a decision you can make from now until the 150th exit, right? This was a reference to the freeway exit for the station. Defendant said, Yeah. After some further conversation about defendant's other son who was serving a prison term in New York, there was a long pause broken by defendant saying, Hey. Dudek replied [Heyo], and defendant said, [I have a question,] if I want to get this over with as soon as possible, right? Dudek said, Uh-huh. Defendant asked, Who [do I talk] to? [PD? DA?] Dudek said, Yeah, you mean you just wanna plead and get, get on with your time? Defendant said, Yeah. He wanted to be sentenced, you know, or whatever. Dudek  said, We can, we can let the DA know that that's your, your wish[es] ... I mean, they're, they're gonna go on the guidance of your PD anyway .... Defendant said, Yeah, and commented, PD doesn't (unintelligible). After some discussion about waiving time, Dudek told defendant, It's going to be up to you. He explained, a defense attorney would be [t]here to advise you, but you, you're still in the driver's seat, you know, it's your defense. I mean, he's there to advise you, but if you say hey, you know, you're still a young guy, let's just get on with this so I can ... Defendant said, I'm the only one that [holds it]. I actually, you know, it's like [at the house? I have the keys to all the doors]. Dudek said, Exactly.  After a pause Dudek said, When we get here it's a lot easier, let, let us do what we gotta do and then we can talk to you and you can talk to us [and]. I mean, I understand what you said before, but let's just, just get in here and do what we gotta do. After another pause he asked defendant, You consider yourself institutionalized? By that (unintelligible) talk to a whole bunch of people and some dudes are just kind of reserved to the fact that that's the way it's always gonna be, and sometimes ... It's easier and just do time, or do you consider yourself, I want to get over with this so I can try to make at least, have ten good years or whatever. Defendant's response is unintelligible. Dudek concluded the conversation with an exhortation: It's kind of unfortunate for you because ... it seems like you were at least heading in the right direction as far as with the religion, and the making amends with your kids, and stuff like that. What you can't do  Carl though, is, is, is, it's, it's your heart and it's your soul, don't, don't give up on yourself, alright? It's, you know, believe it or not your, your, your daughter obviously is pissed off at you for not having a relationship [but at least] she's kind of proud of herself [and] proud of [making amends], [and] you can still do some good, you know what I'm saying, and, and you, you can't give up on yourself. Once you give up on yourself then, you know, the healing process has to start with you first, you know. Defendant said, Yeah. Dudek continued: It does, so I'm not gonna jump into this Bible thumping thing or anything like that, but I'm just telling you don't give up on yourself, alright? Cause then you don't do anybody any good. Believe it or not, what families want more is, like Ed said, they want to know the why and they want to hear something from your mouth and people, even people that are victims of something terrible, they get over it too, you know what I mean? So, they mainly look at you and, you know that from your previous crimes too though, you know. Just like that lady that you see walking around. 6 You know, that was one of your more powerful moments, was meeting up with her on the streets. [So, people] get over it. People realize that, you know. I told you before that before I did this I was in, you know, I, I did dope, I was a dope sergeant, you know what I mean, and believe me I know when, when crack cocaine and, and crank, and everything else does to people. People, it's the wors[t] thing that they ever had because you take people that have been clean and you could sit there and you could, and trust them and, and you'd, you'd want to have them come around and, and then I see these [fuckin'], more so the girls (unintelligible) and stuff spun out on the [crank] and shit. It's like damn, it's like how can anybody get to that point, but you understand [how they can, 'cause,] especially with the crack man, it's just so powerful and stuff you know. I mean, you gotta realize people are going to do you in one  fashion, but only you know what, what Carl's all about inside, inside your heart. That pretty much ends my sermon here so that's where I'm coming from. There was a considerable period without conversation before they arrived at the station.