Source: http://fathersunite.org/Paying_Spouse_Legal_Bill.html
Timestamp: 2019-04-20 02:15:38+00:00

Document:
Do not fund your enemy's army. Do not ever pay these ordered amounts. It is a civil debt and they can go through normal collection processes. Even if you are held in contempt, which should not happen, you can not be jailed for this type of debt, like you can before child support due to this being treated differently than a civil debt by law.
Divorce is the #3 reason for bankruptcy due to the insane orders of courts that look only at the mothers financial to make determinations and often leave fathers unable to support themselves. With 40% of take-home pay (average with 2 children) going to the wife TAX FREE a man earning $50,000 per year takes home $357/month. Not even enough to rent an apartment, never mind a car, food and other living expenses.
Normal civil debt requires a "meeting of the minds", contract or agreement. None exists so collection is VERY difficult.
NEVER PAY YOUR SPOUSE'S LEGAL BILLS!
Every war is a war of attrition and funding your enemy is just plain stupid!!
Lawyers are mercenaries! No cash no service!
Each person pays his own attorney fees.
As a general rule, a litigant must bear his own expenses including attorney fees, except where a statute permits the award of costs, a valid contract or stipulation provides for costs, or rules concerning damages permit recovery.
2. Attorney's fees. Aurora urges that the award of attorney's fees by the second judge in the amount of $2,000 must be vacated as there is no statutory basis for the award and no contractual provision for fees in the parties' separation agreement.
"As a general rule in Massachusetts, a litigant must bear his own expenses including attorney's fees, except where a statute permits the award of costs, a valid contract [or] stipulation provides for costs, or rules concerning damages permit[ ] recovery." Judge Rotenberg Educ. Center, Inc. v. Commissioner of Dept. of Mental Retardation (No. 1), 424 Mass. 430, 468 (1997); Krock v. Krock, 46 Mass.App.Ct. 528, 531 n. 2 (1999). See Police Commr. of Boston v. Gows, 429 Mass. 14, 17 (1999) ("Massachusetts generally follows the 'American Rule' and denies recovery of attorney's fees absent a contract or statute to the contrary.") Additional exceptions to the general rule have been created, where, for example, an insured under a homeowner's policy has successfully established an insurer's duty to defend, Preferred Mut. Ins. Co. v.. Gamache, 426 Mass. 93, 95-97 (1997), or a party has been forced to litigate to obtain what previously had been awarded by a court even though the opposing party's conduct did not constitute contempt. Police Commr. of Boston v. Gows, 429 Mass. at 17-19. See the case summaries in Krock v. Krock, 46 Mass.App.Ct. at 531-532 n 2.
 We have recognized the explicit language of G. L. c. 186, § 14, which provides for payment of attorney's fees, and this language is not limited to attorney's fees for trial proceedings. See Darmetko v. Boston Hous. Auth., 378 Mass. 758, 765 (1979). Similarly, we approved the award of attorney's fees under G. L. c. 186, § 18, where the statutory language is equally clear and not limited to attorney's fees for trial proceedings. See Ianello v. Court Management Corp., 400 Mass. 321, 325 (1987). The language of G. L. c. 93A, § 9 (4), leaves no doubt as to the right to recover attorney's fees without any suggestion that fees for the appeal are excluded. See Kohl v. Silver Lake Motors, Inc., 369 Mass. 795, 801 (1976). The statutory provisions for a "reasonable attorney's fee" would ring hollow if it did not necessarily include a fee for the appeal. The right to appellate attorney's fees under these statutes is beyond dispute.
 2. Procedure for the award of attorney's fees for appellate work. A more difficult question is whether the rule which we announced in Mellor v. Berman, 390 Mass. 275, 284 (1983), to the effect that "either appellate costs nor attorney's fees for the appeal can be imposed by a trial court absent authorization by an appellate court or by virtue of a rule or statute," applies to attorney's fees for appellate work under the statutes in the present case. We have treated as discretionary in the appellate court the award of attorney's fees on appeal where a statute provides for the payment of reasonable attorney's fees. Patry v. Liberty Mobilehome Sales, Inc., 394 Mass. 270, 272 (1985). Although, in Mellor, the court was deciding the issue under G. L. c. 186, § 15B, a statute which does not figure in the present case, the rule has been extended to the award of appellate attorney's fees under the statutes in the present case. See Patry v. Liberty Mobilehome Sales, Inc., supra.
 We are asked to abandon the Mellor rule in favor of a practice which would permit a trial Judge to award attorney's fees for appellate services without any authorization from an appellate court. Despite the force and diversity of the arguments for abandonment of the Mellor rule, we conclude that the rule is sound.
 An appellate court is in a far better position to evaluate the worth of the appellate work than the trial Judge. The Justice of the appellate court who writes the opinion for the court develops nothing short of an intimacy with the record on appeal and the briefs. An appellate Justice on the quorum or panel which hears and decides the appeal develops a knowledge of the case and the value of the work of the attorney who seeks compensation. A trial Judge simply cannot bring to bear this familiarity with the appellate work.
 3. The procedure under Mellor v. Berman. If Mellor has left the bar unclear as to the procedural requirements of an award of legal fees for appellate work, we set them forth.
 A party who seeks an award of appellate attorney's fees should request them in his brief. If such party does not prevail, he is not entitled to fees, though no harm accrues from the request. If such party prevails, he may then submit his petition for fees together with the necessary back-up material and details as to hours spent, precise nature of the work, and fees requested. The other party should be given a reasonable time to respond. The appellate Justice who considers the petition may request more data and may set down the matter for hearing with notice to the other party. This procedure places no greater burden on the parties than the procedure requested before the trial Judge.
What the probate judges do and what is legal are almost certainly two different things. They will intimidate you to do their will without regard for the real law, knowing the 95% of people will not understand it is illegal or appeal. I was found in contempt for not paying the mortgage when I did not have the money and wife was living in my house protected by my prenup - TOTALLY ILLEGAL by case law and prenup contract!!!!
He sentenced me to 30 days and never enforced, though wife moved out and kind of acquiesced making the order moot after the pretrial on the prenup where they admitted the prenup was valid (except for a small illegal carve out her attorney try to get). But the contempt finding still hangs there.
It is your responsibility to fight these. As a civil debt with no contract collection is difficult and I have heard most attorneys don't even try to collect these.
My appeals forced judge to take me more seriously - though this pisses them off a bit too. He now has 3 different appeals hanging over him from me, so if I file civil rights suit against him there is a clear history and pattern of judicial abuse there (if I fight and win, which is very likely). If no appeal you are accepting his/her ruling. I asked for a finding of facts on this, as you always should, and this was granted but never done by judge. As I understand it most judges will not enforce the sentence while under appeal. He is getting more and more irritated as I learn more and more and he knows I know he is doing illegal things. I count about 22 illegal things my judge has done now - averaging about 4 per hour in front of him or on illegal act each 15 minutes. He is just no realizing that I know these things are illegal and most people don't. Knowledge is power!! He will have to be more careful moving forward as I hint that a record of real abuse and prejudice is being built here.
You can also motion for a Stay of this sentence at both the probate and appeals court level (must do in that order) giving you 2 bites at the apple to hold it off during a LONG appeal process. By the time the appeal is done the order and sentence may be moot anyway or it may be dropped due to the expense and other progress.
LESSON I LEARNED: You should always appeal such an order (notice of appeal to reserve that right is just a letter within 30 days saying you will appeal X) and fight both the order itself and the contempt (2 chances to win). Most of us are so poor after this process it is easy to make the case you can not afford to pay it anyway. Case law says you can not be found in contempt unless it is PROVEN that you have the ability to pay on the day of the contempt hearing. They would have to bring in a 3rd party financial statement showing you had all that cash hidden somewhere. So in other words if you can not afford to pay it then you should be able to get out of it easy. The lawyer will forget it long before you recover financially from your divorce. BTW I think that pension money does not count so if the money is in a 401K, Roth IRA or other retirement fund I THINK you can still have lots of assets. So if this is coming put all your funds into retirement accounts. (not sure about Coverdell, but since you can put $250,000 in these if this is exempted too then you have lots of place to put funds that cannot be taken for these legal fees. Not paying legal fees is the best way to get the divorce resolved more quickly - it is amazing how these will go on and on for rich folk and poor folk get this resolved without any real legal costs!
Subject: Re: anyone know if Plaintiff attorney bill protected like child support?
So while still in a temporary order, the marital estate would have to file bankruptcy, not just one of the individuals?
Well now, that is interesting information that I didn't know. As a matter of fact, now that you mentioned that, I do recall something in the judgment that the judge ordered me to pay her attorney's fees amounting to something like $17,000.00. But I have not paid any of that myself. That was in N.Y. and I am in R.I.. Do you think that may play a role as to why I haven't been notified that I am in contempt?
In a contempt situation this is not true. So you were lucky, I wasn't and he might not be so. All they have to do is find him in contempt and order him to pay. I can show you a copy of such resulting in a deferred 7 day sentence if you don't believe me.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER'S BILL (UNLESS YOU'RE THE PLAINTIFF). HER ATTORNEY KNOWS THAT HE/SHE WILL NOT GET PAID (FROM YOU ANYWAY). THEY MAY BE SO BOLD AS TO SEND YOU A BILL OR EVEN SEND IT TO AN OFFICIAL BILL COLLECTING AGENCY, LIKE SOME OTHER ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. JUST IGNORE IT. THE SAME HAPPENED TO ME AND IF YOU ARE SO STUPID TO EVEN PAY A PORTION OF IT, THEN THEY'LL TREAT IT AS IF YOU MUST PAY IT. I IGNORED THE BILL AND I NEVER EVEN RECEIVED A SECOND BILL AND IT NEVER WENT TO A BILL COLLECTING AGENCY. THERE IS NOTHING THAT THEY CAN DO. PERIOD. YOU NEVER CONTRACTED THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY SO IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
File the lawyers invoice in the bankruptcy. Also send him a notice denying any liability for that debt. Just write DEBT DENIED on the bill and send a copy back.
Unless the Judges orders you to pay her fees, its not a legal debt. Even if the Judge orders it, you can "bankrupt it." or just ignore it. It is a civil debt and should be treated as such.
It is my practice to just ignore these bills and claims of debt. I have never had a lawyer try to collect a court ordered fee from me. They have better things to do with their time that will be MORE profitable. Should they ever decide to try to collect, I will run them through an unbelievable process taking hours and hours of billable time, and final result is they will still not collect. I would demand all their billings for all their clients for the last 5 years for a starter. I did this to Bank of America collectors last year and the lawyers retreated!!
I currently have over $20,000 in alleged attorney debts ordered by Judges over the last 10 years. I have never determined if I owe the lawyer or the EX from the order. It 's unclear who to pay. The Judge just orders you to pay it. There can be no contempt from an unclear order. The above advice is based on real experience.
Subject: anyone know if Plaintiff attorney bill protected like child support?
Anyone know if filing bankruptcy the plaintiff's lawyers invoice is treated like taxes due or child support?
Child support can NOT be bankrupted. Period. Neither can alimony, nor some other things, like taxes, and even student loans (the last one is usually not, although there are exceptions for this under proven "undue hardship").
1- Lewko doesn't say explicitly that one can bankrupt child support. But as it is a debt "Like any other debt", by implication, it would be subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and other consumer credit laws because it has been declared to be a common, commercial debt (see below excerpts from Lewko).
Therefore, as such a debt, it maybe discharged in bankruptcy.
explicitly would be useful. Are there any case laws or statutes that explicitly state what categories of debt are dischargeable ?
2- That child support payment "enforced through civil remedies. "
hopefully this should reign in the judges from their excesses.
upbringing of the child. " Using this, a non-custodial parent could sue the custodial parent for accountability.
Lewko case regards child support as ' a "thing" in commerce.
106 F.3d at 1033. '.
another civil court, is a debt that may be enforced through civil remedies.
Sage, 92 F.3d at 106).
commercial channels. See also Mussari, 95 F.3d at 790. "
laws' i cannot locate it.
opinions. The First Circuit explained the situation.
UNITED STATES, Appellee, v. RICHARD C. LEWKO, Defendant, Appellant.
Everything else in the email (below) stands.
credit act, would be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
So, which one is right ? Has anyone got a straight answer / case laws?
to a custodial Dad right now in MI. Mom's arrears are approx.
they want? Did you know you could do this?? Welcome to reality!
shouldsupport their children. Good Lord, where is the justice?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the laws?

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