Source: http://www.emichaelmusic.com/tag/music-theory/
Timestamp: 2019-04-20 10:31:31+00:00

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The 3-4-5-8 from Sebastian Bach to Sebastian Mikael.
Not the Michael Jackson film, THIS IS IT, but the 5th and final SHOULD Artist X Sue Artist Y over 3-4-5-8 post.
putting it my way, but nicely.
All of this came about because I heard “Last Night” by Sebastian Mikael for the first time as I was driving home from the airport in Nashville one Sunday night (February 23, 2014) and couldn’t help but notice the 3-4-5-8’s jumping out of the car radio. That led to an investigation of the 3-4-5-8 melody as well as the music of Sebastian Mikael, Toby Keith, XTC, Badfinger, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles and more.
The string of posts went in this order, from the most recently released music, back to The Rolling Stones.
Today, I’ll add a few more and end my pursuit of the 3-4-5-8 melodic gesture. There are many other 3-4-5-8 melodic gestures in a lot of of music by artists including Creedence Clearwater Revival, Miles Davis, The Mavericks, Sibelius, Mendelssohn, Bach, Beethoven and others.
3-4-5-8 is played by oboes and violins in unison at the opening of the Bourree from Suite No. 3 for Orchestra . It is heard at 0.00 and repeated soon at 0.08. It also changes keys and is heard again later as well.
Bach used 3-4-5-8 as a nice little melodic snippet. Bach’s version is faster than those sung by Sebastian Mikael, Toby Keith, Toby Keith, Andy Partridge (XTC), Tom Evans (Badfinger), Mick Jagger, John Lennon or Marni Nixon (King & I).
I’ve been asked for my opinion as to whether any of those infringe. In my opinion, NONE of those I have posted infringe on any copyright of which I am aware.
3-4-5-8 is a snippet that dates back centuries – I have posted a few prominent uses of 3-4-5-8 from 1730 – 2013. After having studied these recordings and the specific uses of 3-4-5-8, I am convinced that this melody/melodic excerpt is in the public domain. Lawsuits should rarely if ever stem from the use of 3-4-5-8 although sadly there are copyright infringement lawsuits filed over much less in common than simply four (4) unoriginal pitches.
Should The Rolling Stones Sue Badfinger?
The 4th “SHOULD” post. The 4th “You stole my 3-4-5-8” post.
I raised the possibilities and reasons why these songs could be in litigation – all of those songs feature the 3-4-5-8 melody. I did NOT take a side – my purpose was to be illustrative and solicit responses. I heard “Last Night” by Sebastian Mikael for the first time as I was driving home from the airport in Nashville Sunday night (February 23, 2014) and couldn’t help but notice the 3-4-5-8’s jumping out of the car radio. That led to an investigation of the 3-4-5-8 melody as well as the music of Sebastian Mikael, Toby Keith, XTC, Badfinger and now The Rolling Stones.
The 3-4-5-8 occurs prominently twelve (12) times in The Rolling Stones’ Street Fighting Man (1968).
Should The Rolling Stones sue Badfinger over the 3-4-5-8 melody that was so prominent in their Street Fighting Man and so prominent in Badfinger’s Come And Get It? As I’ve stated before, there are music copyright infringement lawsuits in the courts in 2014 that involve NO melodic similarity.
The 3rd “SHOULD” post. The 3rd “You stole my 3-4-5-8” post.
I raised the possibilities and reasons why these songs could be in litigation. I did NOT advocate that a lawsuit should happen and I did NOT take a side – my purpose was to be illustrative and solicit responses. I heard “Last Night” by Sebastian Mikael for the first time as I was driving home from the airport in Nashville Sunday night (February 23, 2014) and couldn’t help but notice the 3-4-5-8’s jumping out of the car radio. That led to an investigation of the 3-4-5-8 melody as well as the music of Sebastian Mikael, Toby Keith, XTC and now Badfinger.
Today I ask a related question and what would be a precedent to the XTC v. Toby Keith case which was a precedent for the Toby Keith v. Sebastian Mikael possibility – namely, should Badfinger sue XTC for stealing “Badfinger’s” 3-4-5-8?
XTC’s Then She Appeared (1992) is a song written and recorded almost twenty (20) years before Toby Keith’s Red Solo Cup (2011) but more than twenty (20) AFTER Badfinger’s Come And Get It (1970). It also prominently features the 3-4-5-8 melody. The 3-4-5-8 is the opening vocal and the hook throughout the entire song.
Are four (4) prominent and clearly-heard notes in common between songs reason enough to instigate a copyright infringement lawsuit? As mentioned before, one answer could be found in comparing this hypothetical (or not) Badfinger v. XTC music copyright infringement case to the actual Marvin Gaye v. Robin Thicke copyright infringement case in which NO notes were in common between the songs.
If one can sue when the similarity is only STYLE and NOT melody, surely one is even more likely to sue when the similarity is MELODY and not STYLE.
Should XTC Sue Toby Keith?
Another “SHOULD” post. Another “You stole my 3-4-5-8” post.
I raised the possibility and reasons why these songs could be in litigation. I did NOT take a side – my purpose was to be illustrative and solicit responses. I heard “Last Night” by Sebastian Mikael for the first time as I was driving home from the airport in Nashville Sunday night (February 23, 2014) and couldn’t help but notice the 3-4-5-8’s jumping out of the car radio.
Today I ask a related question and what would be a precedent to the Toby Keith v. Sebastian Mikael possibility – namely, should XTC sue Toby Keith for stealing their 3-4-5-8?
XTC’s Then She Appeared (1992) is a song written and recorded almost twenty (20) years before Toby Keith’s Red Solo Cup (2011). It also prominently features the 3-4-5-8 melody. The 3-4-5-8 is the opening vocal and hook throughout the entire song.
Are four (4) prominent and clearly-heard notes in common between songs reason enough to instigate a copyright infringement lawsuit? One answer could be found in comparing this hypothetical (or not) XTC v. Toby Keith music copyright infringement case to the actual Marvin Gaye v. Robin Thicke copyright infringement case in which NO notes were in common between the songs.
Should Toby Keith Sue Sebastian Mikael?
Toby Keith’s Red Solo Cup features the lyrics, “red solo cup, I fill you up” and “red solo cup, I lift you up” always sung to the same melody, an ascending four-note pattern that is the hook: -3-4-5-8.
The 3-4-5-8 melody is heard sixteen (16) times in Red Solo Cup.
Sebastian Mikael’s Last Night features the lyric, “four shots ago,” always sung to the same four-note pattern as heard in Red Solo Cup, used in all four (4) choruses, and in a similar prominent manner as well: 3-4-5-8.
The 3-4-5-8 melody is heard four (4) times in Last Night.
If both songs use the same pitches but one was recorded and released earlier, shouldn’t the publisher(s) of Toby Keith’s Red Solo Cup sue the publisher(s) of Sebastian Mikael’s Last Night ?
Toby Keith sings 3-4-5-8 sixteen (16) times throughout Red Solo Cup.
Sebastian Mikael sings 3-4-5-8 four (4) times throughout Last Night.
3-4-5-8 is always an important part of each chorus.
Both songs feature the same four (4) notes – 3-4-5-8.
Toby Keith recorded and released Red Solo Cup well before Sebastian Mikael recored and released Last Night.
Why wouldn’t Toby Keith’s publisher(s) sue Sebastian Mikael?
Are four (4) prominent and clearly-heard notes in common between songs reason enough to instigate a copyright infringement lawsuit? One answer could be found in comparing this hypothetical (or not) Toby Keith v. Sebastian Mikael music copyright infringement case to the actual Marvin Gaye v. Robin Thicke copyright infringement case in which NO notes were in common between the songs.
When I was learning classical music, and classical music theory (known to many as simply, “music theory”), what helped was comparing classical music to what I knew much better and made more sense to me, namely, rock music or pop music. The more I learned about music and different styles of music, the more I explored and then compared classical with those other styles – first soul/Motown, then jazz, folk, blues, country, world music (although I had been hearing that earlier without knowing I was hearing world music) and eventually hip hop, trip hop, acid jazz and anything else with or without a name.
The majority of Classical music is not as repetitive, in terms of a singular repeated chord progression, as popular and/or country music. But the I V I6 IV progression is heard at the outset of the first movement of Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 4.
Do these sections from Van Halen and Beethoven sound similar? They are identical in terms of harmony and bass melody, and chord progression. This intrigues me but probably very few other people, and I was even warned not to write this post. Oh well. I did. I will not write posts like this often but I love the idea of parallels between music that at the surface should have little in common and I believe that hearing these parallels leads to a better understanding and appreciation of music. I intentionally avoided explaining the elementary music theory and music theory terms and nouns above because I do not think an understanding of music theory is necessary to hear these specific parallels between Beethoven and Van Halen, and the education/explanation would take too long for a single post.
Here is the full orchestral score of Beethoven – Piano Concerto No. 4, Op. 58. Thrillingly to me and sadly to some, the printed musical scores Beethoven composed can be copied for free, i.e., they are in the public domain – one does not need to ask the copyright owner permission to use this music because the copyright term has ended. No one gets paid when one downloads the scores to these excellent compositions.
But by that way of thinking – with the month as 12 and the year as 12 (not 2012) – there are 31 days of this nice symmetry, a fact I’ll ignore after this sentence ends. Except to sarcastically say (write) that today is probably a great day to get married or give birth and I wish those people a lot of 14-style bliss.
The title of this post, I Had Almost Given Up On You – This Chord Didn’t Want To Change, came to me a few minutes ago. I was at a deposition once for the Expert from the opposing side. She/He was talking too much (that’s always fun as too many words can get one in trouble – just look at the trouble I could cause myself – the Expert who types/spouts/rants/posts too much!). Back to our story…. In a very long ramble, the Expert went way beyond simply answering the question – she/he stated that it is unusual for a chord to last more than 8 measures/8 bars and that in one of her/his cases she/he looked “far and wide” for songs that featured chords this lengthy.
One of the most famous songs that stays on one chord for a long time is the first and only song I know responsible for the name of a great band and a magazine.
One of Hendrix’ best known songs and longest recorded jams featured Steve Winwood on organ. This is from Electric Ladyland.
A shorter blues, also from Hendrix’ Electric Ladyland. This is the album where Hendrix demonstrated his great knowledge and love of the blues, and especially Chess Records blues.
Not a great Steppenwolf song, ironically, because it needed to change chords sooner.
Because it is Little Walter, the harmonica playing is superb, and the lyrics are either subtle or screaming at you, depending on your familiarity with blues.

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