Source: http://pantheonfoundation.org/projects/pagan-activism-conference-online/earth-activism/
Timestamp: 2019-04-26 03:46:18+00:00

Document:
19:04:54 From Andy : she is fading in and out. Anyone else having a problem.
19:05:09 From Yeshe Rabbit : Yes, I asked her to speak slowly and that will help.
19:06:13 From Yeshe Rabbit : Compost: the gateway drug!
19:07:37 From Janet Hayes : Welcome, Celia!
19:08:22 From Celia Alario : woooewee!
19:08:23 From Erica : 26 year…?
19:12:36 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : It did it for me too.
19:16:13 From Yeshe Rabbit : I’m wearing a ring made from a Mercury dime right now!
19:16:26 From Vicki : The dime actually has Liberty on it. You can tell by the hat.
19:17:16 From Yeshe Rabbit : Ahhh!
19:21:38 From laurielovekraft : Wow!
19:21:59 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : I am a bit jealous now.
19:22:27 From laurielovekraft : Yeah!
19:23:34 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : I like that.
19:23:54 From Vicki : Fighting the corporations that have stolen my government! Me too.
19:24:29 From laurielovekraft : Thanks Erica!
19:24:39 From Vicki : How much money does it take to hurt the rich corporations?
19:24:48 From Erica Shadowsong : right?
19:25:48 From Yeshe Rabbit : Joy and community- true human values, are more valuable than any goods.
19:26:27 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : No bleeping. Speak from the heart Andy!
19:27:21 From rhiannon : Ssssssss… hell yeah!!
19:27:44 From Yeshe Rabbit : Yes, Celia!
19:27:57 From Vicki : Look to Indigenous world view.
19:27:57 From laurielovekraft : Mistresses of Resitences!
19:29:05 From Celia Alario : panels in our jambes!
19:29:16 From Celia Alario : jammies that is!
19:30:39 From laurielovekraft : Sorry all! Had to kiss my kiddos goodnight!
19:31:15 From Andy : I’ll be riking arrest with Santa and 40 people on black Friday.
19:31:57 From Yeshe Rabbit : I watch you on FB do this all the time and you are seriously impressive, Andy.
19:32:14 From Vicki : Yes. Andy is impressive.
19:32:20 From Vicki : Thank you.
19:35:13 From laurielovekraft : Thanks Rose MayDance, you were there too back then with Starhawk!
19:37:14 From Robin Grimm : Susu!
19:37:47 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Susu is an amazing person!
19:37:52 From rose : at the full moon!
19:38:10 From laurielovekraft : Howwwwwllllllll!
19:38:45 From Yeshe Rabbit : Susu is an awesome woman.
19:38:48 From Vicki : fear. Toilets.
19:39:53 From Andy : we bring pota potties.
19:45:07 From Mark Green : I have to ask: I’ve been active in environmental politics for more than 25 years, and I have yet to see street protest have a significant impact on ANYTHING. Why are we talking about street protests instead of grassroots organizing of voters, GOTV, lobbying presence and development and support of candidates? Honestly, I’m not seeing anything real here. I realize that’s harsh, but having accomplished things, that’s what I’m about, not symbolic gestures.
19:46:03 From laurielovekraft : Hi Mark, we’re still doing our introductions, but let’s definitely talk about this, thanks for bringing this up.
19:46:54 From Yeshe Rabbit : Hey folks, please mute when you aren’t speaking, thanks!
19:47:05 From Mark Green : Where’s the mute?!!
19:47:23 From Andy : Thasnk you Mark. I will be happy tro discount your work as well but I won’t. Street activism leads to open dialog and I’m not going to debate you here.
19:52:36 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : I think everyone has the niche and what they are comfortable with. There is room for all of us to do what we can, when we can, and how we can.
19:53:12 From Yeshe Rabbit : Agreed!
19:54:21 From Robin Grimm : that is so awesome!
19:55:41 From Yeshe Rabbit : We start with simple things: one tree in a park, one public park…from there we can move up.
19:55:47 From crystal : It is when we do not work within our own strengths that we are apt to hurt our causes more than we can help them. Good point Yeshe Rabbit.
19:56:33 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Everyone has their comfort zone. Some can just jump in. Some need to put a toe in first. I think we all have fear of what can happen to us or our families because of our actions. We can not demand people to go beyond, but we can encourage and help them if they want. Even helping behind the scenes if you cannot or will not be out in public.
19:57:23 From Shauna Aura Knight : One thing I’m always interested in is helping others (and myself) find ways to plug in as activists in ways that fit our abilities, talents, and availabilities. I find that lots of people have that hopelessness and despair, “What I do won’t matter,” or, “I can’t go out to a protest, so what can I do? Why bother?” Perhaps it’s too big of a question for today, but I wonder if it’s possible to gather more ways for people to be activists in ways that play to their strengths. I’d love to hear more ideas for this.
19:58:08 From Erica Shadowsong : yes I definitely think this is the beginning of a good next step…?
19:58:08 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Perhaps a pannel for the next conference?
19:58:22 From Yeshe Rabbit : Great idea- noted!
19:59:11 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Programming is taking requests.
20:00:37 From Yeshe Rabbit : In CAYA, we ask people to find their joyful service- what would give you joy to do? What would make you happy if you could succeed with it?
20:00:40 From rose : and also the state of callifornia.
20:01:44 From crystal : I think finding what calls to you is key.
20:02:23 From Yeshe Rabbit : The Foundation does have a follow-up blog project for PACO- this will be emailed to you next week and there will definitely be opportunities for folks to do just what Shauna is suggesting.
20:03:39 From Shauna Aura Knight : Awesome, that will be a tremendous resource Yeshe!
20:04:00 From Mark Green : Well, I would. My perspective is my own, and others may not share it, but I’m a very, very practical, pragmatic person. And so what I care about is outcomes, and the outcomes that are accomplished are made by those in a position to make policy. To the degree that we Raise Our Fists To The Man and dismiss all policy makers as whores and shills, we squander the relationships that can actually lead to progress. I see the fringe left–and I think the Pagan community writ large chooses that designation–as **opting** to be marginalized in this way, when we have articulate and smart people who could be far more effective wearing suits and meeting with officials than blowing whistles and carrying effigies.
20:04:10 From Yeshe Rabbit : We all need each other in this. We are so much stronger when we work together and share best practices.
20:04:27 From Mark Green : Street protest was a valuable tactic when the media covered it. They don’t. It no longer is.
20:05:04 From Mark Green : This isn’t India. And it isn’t 1930.
20:05:11 From Yeshe Rabbit : Mark, where do you turn your actions and energies?
20:05:32 From Mark Green : You, too, Andy! Love to you.
20:05:43 From John Medellin : There is a viable alternative media through various online channels and that is largely how street protesting has retained its relevance.
20:06:04 From Mark Green : To policy development, voter organizing and education, get out the vote, candidate development, and lobbying.
20:06:35 From Yeshe Rabbit : John- I agree. I feel like my generation really turns the wheel to online activism as a primary work. My 18-yr-old niece is really much more skillful at it than I am.
20:06:59 From Erica Shadowsong : Starhawk and panelists, I think my question about retaliation comes from watching perhaps one too many documentaries. they always have these horror stories about people getting harrassed on their land, or sued, or event threatened. it’s terrifying. perhaps the attempt to make the storytelling hit home is doing some harm instead of good?
20:07:01 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : But with street protests now we have cameras and streaming video options. The word can get out to more people via social media than many news outlets. Make the videos go viral.
20:07:32 From Andy : Love you too my brother.
20:07:54 From Yeshe Rabbit : Mark- that sounds like it would be great fodder for an article for the Journal of Pagan Activism Studies we will be putting together next year. Efficacy measurements, layered action in different start of the power scheme.
20:08:10 From laurielovekraft : Mark, I totally agree that we need to do policy development, voter organizing and education, get out the vote, candidate development, and lobbying. But not everyone can do that or wants to do that. But people need to see that as a viable option. I for one have a suit and I’m not afraid to wear it (and do)!
20:08:18 From Robin Grimm : I too am horrified when people don’t vote.
20:08:46 From laurielovekraft : But I *hate* pantyhose! yuck!
20:09:04 From Robin Grimm : “it doesn’t work anyway” /whine. The heck it doesn’t! Why would “they” be trying to suppress it?
20:09:20 From Mark Green : I also think we need to be clear about our own separation of church and state. We’re a minority–that means our religion needs to run in the background when we advocate to those who don’t share it.
20:09:57 From Andy : When you have to get to an action in September at 4.00 am pantyhose or tights rule.
20:10:12 From Mark Green : Oh, I’m pantyhose all the way, Andy.
20:10:17 From Yeshe Rabbit : HH Dalai Lama’s book “Beyond Religion” explains how to do that well- to move beyond the things that limit connection.
20:10:37 From Yeshe Rabbit : To place Ethics common to the good of all before religion in certain cases.
20:10:56 From Yeshe Rabbit : Great question.
20:11:58 From Mark Green : I also think that it is *very, very dangerous* to fall into messaianic paranoia as activists. It is very dangerous to tell ourselves that we are Doing The Work Of The Gods. We’re just critters, and we care about something, and so we’re trying to do something about it. No, the CIA couldn’t care less about this conference. Really, they couldn’t.
20:12:54 From crystal : Mark, I don’t agree. I think some of us feel a calling to this work because it is the work of the Gods.
20:13:04 From rhyd : Thank you, Crystal.
20:13:41 From Yeshe Rabbit : I’d like to ask the panel about their thoughts on environmental racism…i.e. cities with no recycling or composting in inner cities or areas where there are many POC. Or dumping nuclear chemicals near indigenous lands and communities.
20:13:42 From Mark Green : You may FEEL that, but that doesn’t mean it gives you a moral cachet.
20:14:00 From John Beckett : I wouldn’t bother if it wasn’t for the call of the Gods.
20:14:31 From crystal : I think that is rather dismissive Mark to the ways that people come to the table to do this work.
20:14:55 From Yeshe Rabbit : For those of us dedicated to the Earth as Goddess, this is more than a feeling. It’s a decision.
20:15:31 From Erica Shadowsong : Celia: DO pagans typically reach out into interfaith work in your experience, or do you find that’s part of the problem, pagans prefering to be isolated ?
20:15:31 From Mark Green : No, it isn’t dismissive. It’s realistic. People need not to kid themselves, and they need not to take on airs. If we want to talk about Gandhi, we need to talk about humility. Telling yourself that you are the exponent of divinity as a rationale for your politics is the antithesis of that.
20:15:54 From crystal : Yes Yeshe Rabbit… and also not a choice. It is something that we are tasked to do.
20:16:11 From Mark Green : Do it because it’s right, not because it makes you feel good about yourself.
20:16:43 From crystal : Who said that it has anything to do with making myself feel better. The type of activism I do does not feel good. Not at all actually.
20:16:59 From John Medellin : I think that the fear in claiming that the Gods call us to our work is that we have seen so much violence and suffering come from this in other religions (which shall remain unnamed), but I think that we can claim this rationally and with heart if we understand that we are called to do what we value because our Gods would do the same, not necessarily because XDeity told me it has to be this way not matter what.
20:16:59 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : So Mark, are you saying your work doesn’t make you feel good about yourself?
20:17:26 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : It can be right and make you feel good about yourself.
20:17:52 From Mark Green : I’m talking about self-congratulation. and no, Keith, it doesn’t. Not any more. It’s just what has to be done. What feels good is the progress. The actual achievements. And that’s not about me, it’s about the future of the world.
20:18:03 From Celia Alario : whatever calls you to action, heed that call, find inspiration and will to do something….anything….
20:18:28 From John Medellin : After all, perhaps with some bad luck to say the least, I CAN say NO.
20:19:00 From Yeshe Rabbit : I think that the future of the world depends on diversity, not a single perspective. Biodiversity and its lack, and the effects of that, show us evidence for this.
20:19:00 From Mark Green : I agree that whatever spurs activism is a good thing. But my hope is that activism will be focused on what actually works, and not wasted on action that may feel satisfying, but at which the powers that be just laugh.
20:19:26 From Mark Green : Thanks, Erica.
20:20:01 From crystal : Right Celia. Because what “works” is often subjective.
20:20:02 From Mark Green : I know that policies are made by policy makers. Getting their support is what works.
20:20:31 From Celia Alario : Policy change is not the only way things improve. we all have theories of change, and it all matters.
20:20:34 From Syren Jill : Yes, and echoing Yeshe’s comment about biodiversity… its not a binary, there is no single right/wrong.
20:20:39 From Vicki : We can also become policy makers.
20:20:43 From Mark Green : If you don’t want a forest cut down, the people who have decision-making power over that are the message target. And if they don’t care about people in the street, they just don’t.
20:20:44 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Erica, me either. The goals are the same, the means are different. Mark is very pationate about this and that is easy to see. I am just trying to get a fuller view of where he is coming from because it is not where I come from.
20:20:53 From Yeshe Rabbit : I also think that creating rubrics and objective measurables for non-policy action would yield useful data for our widespread planning purposes.
20:20:54 From Janet Hayes : Mark, I think I share some of your frustration, having worked professionally on a range of social justice issues for the Unitarian Universalist Association for 10 years. I’m not eager to organize another rally myself, although I support people who choose to to put their efforts into direct action. I wonder what role you (and others) believe spirituality has in activism? How do these work together for you, if they do?
20:21:59 From Mark Green : Janet, that’s a long conversation. I’m an Atheopagan: an Earth-honoring atheist. I do not believe in gods or the supernatural. My spirituality is the magnificence of the Universe and the biosphere. I serve what I love.
20:22:14 From crystal : Policies are not the only measure of what is working.
20:22:41 From Mark Green : I agree, Celia, but public policy still drives the bus.
20:23:01 From Rev Keith V. – Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Now we need to get that bus running on bio fuel!
20:23:06 From Celia Alario : this is not a competition about which type of work is better than others….
20:23:18 From crystal : Mark, that is not accurate for many communities.
20:23:32 From Janet Hayes : I’m a spiritual naturalist as well. One focus for me is the long game. So, for example, teaching kids about the environment in a religious education context, especially as the secular ed is lacking in most schools.
20:23:52 From Mark Green : Exactly, Janet.
20:25:02 From laurielovekraft : Thank you all for the work that you are doing in (and for) the world.
20:25:14 From Mark Green : And you, Laurie.
20:25:41 From Yeshe Rabbit : Robin- I love that.
20:27:04 From Mark Green : What keeps me hopeful is that people have persisted through hundreds of thousands of years, and it appears to be our particular evolutionary trick. Good surprises happen. Obama was a surprise. FDR was a surprise.
20:27:58 From Mark Green : And in the meantime, I work to create common ground with like-minded people. I’ve founded an Atheopagan group on Facebook that is a wonderful place for conversation and collaboration. It’s joyous.
20:28:11 From Robin Grimm : the chat window is a bit distracting . . .
20:29:05 From Robin Grimm : fear of missing something!
20:29:20 From Yeshe Rabbit : lol can’t help that myself!
20:30:02 From rose : celia you rock, love rose may dance.
20:30:04 From laurielovekraft : Gotta Love Celia Alario! Woot!
20:30:16 From laurielovekraft : Yay Rose May Dance!
20:31:01 From Yeshe Rabbit : Then she rescues herself!
20:31:06 From laurielovekraft : This is a great moment to be alive!
20:31:18 From laurielovekraft : … and we rescue ourselves!
20:32:14 From Syren Jill : woot!

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