Source: http://www.djforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2570.html?s=ad7a9799dc05eb66f3329eb44cc6588e
Timestamp: 2019-04-21 22:28:04+00:00

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djforums.com > Equipment > Amps / Speakers > ART 312a's beat K12 / PRX612m?
View Full Version : ART 312a's beat K12 / PRX612m?
In my quest to get good tops for parties up to 300ppl I took out a pair of K12's this weekend to a 270 person mitzvah. Terrible placement in the room (no choice, and I have to deal with it so it was a good test), wasn't thrilled with the subs I was trying (ELX118p's could not keep up), but the K12's did just fine in high-pass mode. No clipping, clear and loud enough, and I like the size & weight. I want to run them next to PRX612m's just for comparison before I buy... And then I come on here and see you all talking about your $500 wonders; the RCF ARt 312a.
Are the 312a's good because of their price, or would they be chosen over a K12 or PRX612 blind and equally priced? I'm hoping the QSC or JBL are clearly better, because they're local. I'm hoping the RCF is because I'd like to save $500 to add to my sub budget. My hesitation is that the "cheaper" ELX subs really let me down, so I'm wary of the "cheaper" 312a's.
Other info: total budget is $3000, what's not spent on tops goes to subs (and a driverack if needed).
Target event for this rig is 250-300 ppl, including hip-hop teen dances (mitzvahs) and weddings.
I cannot depend on boundaries to help, as I'm often staged 20+ feet from any wall.
The 312As compare very well sound quality wise AND output wise to the PRX and K cabs but lack some of their features and are a bit tougher to find locally. The RCFS have a very simple back panel with only gain control with an XLR in and thru. That's it. Price is amazing for such as good sounding and performing powered speaker as many here will be able to confirm and if you don't want/need the mixer section of the K or PRX, the RCFs are a steal!
Al, I'm willing to pay the difference if the others are better speakers. A second input isn't required, 4 pounds isn't going to break my arm off. If they were all $450 this weekend, you could only buy 1 pair, and you had to use rather than resell them, which do you buy?
I think the 312s are actually better than the K series. I was looking for new tops and was actually able to A/B the RCFs with the K series. I thought the RCF outperformed the K in sound quality and volume. especially at high volumes the RCF really shined. I am totally sold on them so I bought 3 of them! :). I have an event coming up on 2 weeks with about 300 ppl where i can really test out 2 312s and 2 718AS subs. It is a fundraiser but will have dance sets where I can really push everything. I will post my results. I did a quick test outside my house running the 2 subs and just 1 top (not even really pushing) and it sounded amazing. I can't wait to hear how it sounds inside!
i have used many 12 inch speakers, jbl prx 612, ev elx112p, and qsc k12. I must say for the price and the sound quality, none of those speakers are comparable to the rcf 312a. You can get a pair on ebay from a authorized dealer for $800. That is definitely an incredible bargain for incredible sounding speakers. I currently own 2 rcf 310a and 2 rcf 312a and one ev elx112p. I had 2 qsc K10s and a pair of prx 615m and sold them because i would be able to get the rcfs and make save some money.
I too have compared the K10s to the RCF Art 310As (I now own 4 of them) and preferred the sound quality of the RCF. I wasn't particularly impressed with the sound of the Ks (especially at higher volumes) but did love the mixer. I haven't heard the JBLs which might offer a little more SPL (given the supposed applied power) , but wouldn't bet on it since this wasn't the case at all with the QSC. All are good cabs overall - but the RCF is the winner if you want the most and best sound for your money.
@CQE, please do post you impressions, as 300 person events with dancing, just 2 tops over subs is exactly the setting I'd be using them in and already know the K12 can handle.
@Windspeed, very regular use; 30+ events a year for these. Some smaller, but at least half in the 2-300 person range.
I have heard the K and PRX but not the RCF. I have seen enough comparisons that when deciding, I would figure whether that mixer section was worth the difference and if not, it would be RCF hands down. In fact I might me making that decision very soon when I expand my powered tops from a pair to 4 or 5. I could add to my K10's or sell them and get all RCF. Since I have lots of mixers and processing equipment, I'm leaning toward the RCF option.
I do have to say though that the mixer section on my K10's has been very welcome. Mind you I do live sound too with a combination of presentations, musical groups and spoken word. A small desk style mixer on stage is not that much more work and in some ways helpful though.
As far as K12 vs. PRX612M I have to say I was impressed with the PRX but it really was subjective. I think the K was a little more harsh but that could have been the PRX muddying things up a bit which isn't really desirable but better sounding in the limited test I got to hear. Different source material might have made a difference.
I assume you've researched stuff like warranty, weight, and all the stuff that's available online and objective.
From a price point perspective this isn't a fair comparison but from just the fact that their all 12" active tops I guess you could compare them. I'll base my opinion on a price to performance factor & with that in mind it's a no brainer, the RCF 312a (though they aren't the most attractive speaker out of the bunch). Runner up would be the QSC K12.
@Incognnito Why isn't it fair? Others seem to be saying that the only way K12 beats it is on inputs, and only way PRX beats it is weight, but on sound quality and projection the RCF wins regardless of price... I'm interested in your input because you seem to be saying the opposite; that the 312a only wins because of price? Take price away, the $200/each isn't going to make my decision. Now what do you think? I don't have a chance to hear without buying, so I'm interested in every set of ears who has heard them!
Ps, I'd get the full-face grille.
It's not fair from a price perspective but the RCF 312a is a good top & it performs well, if I was to buy a 12" powered top today it would be the RCF 312a (hows that for clarification?).
I wasn't saying that. I think the mixer section which is more than just inputs, is the most compelling reason to favor the K12. Factor in the warranty, grille, 2-position pole mount cup, and QSC's service which I'm thinking is probably best in class, too. I didn't mention those because they are readily available bits of data whereas you seemed more interested in what you couldn't find on the web... how they sound subjectively.
I think you got that answer loud and clear... the RCF's are if anything, better sounding to most people. I have also heard people say they had no preference between ART312A and K12. I believe I one time ever heard anyone say they preferred the K12. I think the PRX has a lingering but recovering rep regarding thermal overheating so reliability might factor there, but between the RCF and QSC, I don't know that there is any significant difference, so the QSC warranty and customer service might lose out to the RCF price and a slight sound quality edge because of the limited chance you would use those QSC features and the limited possibility of them becoming an issue with the RCF.
As far as the mixer goes, you have to ask yourself how many times you would use the extra features on the QSC.
@ampnation This is the first place I've run into such an overwhelming favor for the RCF. It's actually the first place I've seen it mentioned very often at all, and I've never seen one in a store, at a gig, or otherwise here in the Northwest at all... So I'm very interested but pretty wary, as I've just been burned by a different lower price item failing to deliver. Thank you all for your good feedback!
The difference is, the only people I've seen talking up the LiveX are vendors and noobs. The vets never jumped on that bandwagon much if at all. The RCF's have been VERY popular ever since they reconfigured them and lowered the price. They used to be much more and people liked them even at that price which was higher than the QSC IIRC. The consensus on the RCF has been excellent for a long time. For LiveX the opinions I value have said mostly, cheap because they are. They might be better than some bottom feeder brands but don't compare to products at the same or slightly higher price level. I think it is safe to assume they sound as good as the K-12 and do your analysis on all the other factors.
Oh, and I belong to another DJ forum with not much overlapping membership and the consensus is the same there.
I have owned the k12 and prx615. I upgraded from k12 to prx615 because the prx get louder and do not sound as harsh as the k12 when pushed. I haven't had a chance to demo the rcf but have heard nothing but good things. I don't think they get loud as PRX so it is up to you to determine how much approx 150-200 bucks is worth the extra SPL.
I have had no issues of thermal with the prx tops.
No the RCF 312a isn't overly loud but it does sound good & it is a really good price point.
How much louder is the art 712 compared to the 312?
Noticeably louder... The 722A is even better (and a better choice for longer throw applications) as it features a true 2'' exit HF driver. The 5 and 7 series have had some issues with their digital amplifiers however. This has probably been corrected, but it is something I have read about.
I noticed your budget is $3000. That should be plenty for 2 tops and an 18" sub. You cannot go wrong with any of the products you are comparing. Now assuming you keep the brands matched, you may not even need to invest in a driverack as they should all have some type of internal and matched DSP. If you go with 2 QSC K12's & KW181 = $3000, 2 JBL Prx612m's & prx 618xlf = $2900, 2 RCF 312a's & RCF 4pro 8003-AS =$2785.. so comparing these 3 systems, not one of them is head over heels better then the other. Also once you add matching subs within the same brand, the price difference really isn't much at all. Sound really is subjective, if you already had experiance with QSC and you were happy with them, go for them. I personally found the RCF's to be a little too harsh on the top end, and the PRX muddy in the mid-range area. I thought the QSC's were the most natural sounding, the JBL's had the most bass punch, and the RCF for overall volume. I'm sure I will find 100 people to either agree or disagree with me. I believe you should purchase what you feel is best. I bet everyone on the poll is voting for speakers they own. Why wouldn't they right? My advise is try to listen to the RCF's if possible because your personal taste may not like them for one reason or another. I know plenty on the forum praise them, but they may not suit You. I have used the RCF Art300a's (previous model from 312a) and I always thouhgt the highs were too harsh. But again, that could just be me. I know it tough but Good luck on your decision!
Sound really is subjective, if you already had experiance with QSC and you were happy with them, go for them. I personally found the RCF's to be a little too harsh on the top end, and the PRX muddy in the mid-range area. I thought the QSC's were the most natural sounding, the JBL's had the most bass punch, and the RCF for overall volume. I'm sure I will find 100 people to either agree or disagree with me. I bet everyone on the poll is voting for speakers they own. Why wouldn't they right? My advise is try to listen to the RCF's if possible because your personal taste may not like them for one reason or another. I know plenty on the forum praise them, but they may not suit You. I have used the RCF Art300a's (previous model from 312a) and I always thouhgt the highs were too harsh. But again, that could just be me. I know it tough but Good luck on your decision!
The RCF 312a sound different (better) form the Art300a, however while I voted for the RCF 312a (& no I don't own the 312a) I think the QSC HPR 122i (which wasn't in the pole) sounded even better then the 312a. I have heard the K12 & felt it didn't sound as good as the HPR 122i but still was ok (can't put my finger on it that just didn't sit right with me about it), the 312a has its' short comings but it does still sound pretty good (just don't ask for it to get too loud).
The RCF are significantly better speaker than the K12. That's my opinion.
Just out of curiosity, what do you base this on?
I know there was something that didn't seem right to me about the K12 in that it just didn't compare to it's older brother the HPR 122i but I can't remember what it was about it I didn't like. That said, the newer KW122 is said to sound better but I as of yet haven't heard one first hand but look forward to since I know of someone who ordered a pair.
My ears. I've heard them both. I love the natural clarity of the 312A's. They have less noise as well. And, when I drove up the levels at a gig they made the hair on my arm stand up and gave me the chills. Damn things are serous business. :) The clarity alone sold me compared to the K12's.
we currently use qsc k8s and k12s for tops and imo the rcfs are just as loud but sounds fuller and better on high volume. qsc now sounds harsh compare to the rcf.... I can blast the rcfs but they are easy on ears, its' hard to explain... thinking of selling our kseries to pick up another pair..
The components used in HPR are way better than K. I had a pair of HPR122i and loved them; however, they were amazingly heavy and I decided to replace them with a pair of K12....what a mistake I made. Everybody said good thing about K, but to be honest, it is not worth the money:mad: I am now planning to sell my K12 and get either DXR12, ELX112P or PRX612M. I will go listen to those speakers this weekend. Any advice?
I'm interested that you brought up the Yorkville NX boxes.
Would you say they compare to the previously mentioned boxes?
I'm a Yorkville fan. I don't know about their price. I hate to sound xenophobic, but at least they're built in north America.
I've seen the quality of all their product, and it's second to none. The warranty is about as good as it gets.
Could the NX55 compete with the others? I'm not a big fan of plastic boxes, so I don't pay much attention.
The difference in sound quality between the JBL, the QSC, EV, Yorkville, EAW... and the RCF would be completely negligible in 99.9% of the setups I need to run. The room acoustics and speaker placement options are always going to cancel out any difference in sound quality. For my purposes, sound quality becomes a non-issue. They're all acceptable.
I know the HPR boxes used a 1.5" throat HF horn, combined with a good quality driver. That (to me) explains why the HPR's sound so much better than the other boxes mentioned. The shortcoming with the HPR boxes was with their weight, combined with their lack of bass for such a heavy box. I'm sure the reasoning was that, since it was a 12" woofer, most likely to be used on a stand, that bass wasn't as important. I agree with the reasoning. A sub box handles that problem easily.
The HPR122 has a 1" exit horn, 1.4" diaphragm driver.
I own the QSC K12’S, PRX 615’s (did a test run demo of the PRX 612’s), and have heard the RCF 312’s live on several occasions. In comparison to the three speakers it’s like apples to oranges they all sound great, the price point for the RCF 312’s is its major advantage. I often wonder if the RCF 312’s were at same price point as the K12’s and the PRX 612’s what would the results reveal…..
I looked at the specs quite a while ago and made assumption.
To me the difference between 1.4" and 1.5" is not particularly noteworthy.
Nevertheless, the numbers made it look to me like it was a 1.4" exit horn, not 1"exit.
As I say, thanks for setting the record straight.
I was actually thinking about picking up a pair of the HPR12's used, for an install. I wouldn't want to tell a client they're 1.5" when they're not. I'll have to keep looking, or lower my offer on the used boxes, or convince the client to try them anyway. I still think they sound pretty nice for what they are.
The NX boxes are indeed designed and built/assembled in Canada. Most Yorkville products are - with a few exceptions (the YX boxes for example). Because of this however, they are somewhat pricey compared to the competition who can often offer more for the $$$ because of cheaper assembly overseas.. That said, Yorkville does stand behind their product more than any other company I have ever dealt with and the warranty is ''even if you break it'' so that is definitely worth something.
The NX55Ps have been some of my favorite boxes for many years and still are. The amount of low end they can produce in spite of their compact size is really remakable. Not a single one of my powered speakers (and not even the Yamaha DXR15s I tested a few weeks ago) can actually go down as low. (45hz). Superior components with some heavy processing gives the NX55P its fat sound. It comes at the price of maximum SPL however. Since any single 12'' can only move so much air, the NX55P does go into limiting quicker than many competitive boxes - and at this point the processing simply starts rolling off the deeper notes so the box can increase in output - BUT with a loss of lower frequencies. As long as you know the limitations of the NX55Ps and can live with them - they are amazing, hi-fi sounding boxes, especially for smaller wedding type gigs where you don't feel like bringing a sub. This is where they excel. The mixer section is also ultra flexible. If you need more output without sacrificing the low notes at high levels, the NX750P (NX55Ps big brother) might be the cabinet you want. Less processing and more SPL but a much bigger box and somewhat awkward shape with a single handle. The NX25P is a the value model in the line with lower overall SPL and less bass BUT still a great sounding powered box.
Back to comparing the NX55P with the newer boxes - like the Yamaha DXR15s I also tested : both powered speakers sounded equally as good until the NX55Ps started limiting. Given the bigger woofer on the DXR15 and better processing (IMO) the DXR15 simply sounded better at higher levels. While the processing in the Yamaha did also start reducing the lower frequencies at higher output, it was much less noticeable than in the NX55P. That said, the NX55Ps have been such workhorses in the past years, I am possibly going to be buying another pair in the near future. I am more than familiar with them by now (and know how to get the most out of them) and do love Yorkville as a company and want to keep supporting them.
Yep, the 312As will either be similar in sound and performance or better. They don't have a great mixer section and don't yell out ''I'm 1000 watts!'' - but when it comes to sound quality and real world output, they'll give any of the mentionned powered speaker a damn good run for their money.
So I just bought a pair of these 312a's (without hearing them first). They do sound pretty sweet. I have a question though. If they are 350 watt speakers why are they marked "480 w" on the back?
Honestly, I have heard, tested, seen, read on many speakers and brands. From my personal account the RCF's throw, sound quality, and built on light mounts :), make it the bomb. I will stick with RCF when it comes to tops, while I only have the 312a tops I can give a pretty good guess that the higher model 7 series would be great for anything short of a concert.
I bought my 312A's blind from DJF recommendations and couldn't be happier. Liked them so much I got the 310A's not long after and again never looked back. You can get a pair with matching RCF bags and cables for less than the others you listed. They should be plenty loud for your purpose and best of all sound great doing it.
Another happy RCF customer here (I have the 10's not the 12's), also bought blind on a DJF recommendation (from Al) and am very pleased with them. Used them last night for the first time and was very pleased with the sound and output, paired with a 15" sub they sound great.
I have herd the 15's are to large for their enclosures, and you get some reduced bass response because of it. Have not herd it in a real world situation though.
As mentionned, the 312As actually outperform the 315As in the low frequency department because of the same cabinet being used for both boxes but not being big enough to let the 15'' woofer breathe properly therefore affecting low frequency response. Neither the 312A or 315A deliver very deep bass - more of a punchy thump.
If you want a nice full sound from some compact boxes that won't require a sub for small to medium venues, look at the Yamaha DXR 15s. A pair of these with the DContour activated and a small high frequency boost sound amazing for DJ applications. I had the pleasure of testing them a few weeks ago and didn't want to give them back. They retail for about 1500$ a pair.
If you want a nice full sound from some compact boxes that won't require a sub for small to medium venues, look at the Yamaha DSR 15s. A pair of these with the DContour activated and a small high frequency boost sound amazing for DJ applications. I had the pleasure of testing them a few weeks ago and didn't want to give them back. They retail for about 1500$ a pair.
Perhaps you are referring to the DXR15?
Have you had a chance to test the DXR 15s? Thoughts? I thought the DXR 8,10s, 12s were all very good sounding - but I just loved the DXR15s extended low frequency response. I thought they sounded fantastic as a single cabinet solution for small/medium DJ gigs.
Yes, I've got them in stock as well as the DXR12 for exactly that reason. Many DJs want a decent sounding 15" that will put out some bass at a relatively modest price point. I think this fits the bill. It ain't top of the line but it delivers a lot of features for the price.

References: ART 312
 ART 312
 ARt 312
 Art 310
 ART312
 art 712
 Art300
 Art300
 Art300