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Speaker A: Let's talk ETF's once again, David, the bitcoin ETF is back. We also want to talk about the Ethereum ETF. When are we going to actually get that? And what's that going to do for prices? It's the first week of June, bankless nation, and it is time for the bankless weekly roll up. June. I'm feeling good, David. This has been a pretty exciting week. What are we talking about today?

Speaker B: The bitcoin ETF's wake up from a napkin. How much money did the bitcoin ETF's take in this week? And also, of course, murmurings about the ETH ETF are definitely crescendoing. But when, Ryan, are we going to get the Eth ETF? I was promised an ETH ETF.

Speaker A: So was I. Also on the back of that, van Eck dropped a 2030 ETH price prediction. David. That's, I think even among the ETH bulls, it's going to make them blush, because let me tell you, it is bullish. We also have. Yeah, we also have Biden vetoing the sad bill. He did that last Friday, kind of like after hours. It could have been an easy win, but he decided to veto. He had the layup. He didn't take it.

Speaker B: Just fumbled millions of votes.

Speaker A: Yeah. The big question is, is the Democrat pivot dead or are they still going to give us some crypto wins?

Speaker B: And then a starknet wants to become a bitcoin layer, too, but also not leave Ethereum. How do they do that? And also, Robinhood acquires a major crypto exchange, probably one of the biggest acquisitions in crypto for a very long time.

Speaker A: Very big freaking deal.

Speaker B: So much news to cover. But first. But before we get to all of that news, a message from our friends and sponsors over at all.

Speaker A: Right, guys, let's talk about the markets this week. Thanks to Kraken, as always, for the prices, and they're looking pretty good. Tell me about bitcoin, dude.

Speaker B: Pretty happy. Yeah. Bitcoin started the week at 69,400, up 3.6% on the week. Almost got up to $72,000 for a high. We're currently at $71,100. So what's our buzzer on?

Speaker A: 75.

Speaker B: That's a good question. 72 something. 73 something. Yeah. 72. 72. 872. 800.

Speaker A: We're close again to bitcoin. All time highs. Every, every time we hit bitcoin, all time highs, like, people get excited, we get media coverage. Right. It's kind of like reflexive. At least that's my hope eth price not quite close to all time highs yet. What are we, like, 25% down from all time highs? Something like this.

Speaker B: We're still a $1,000 off of all time highs, up 1.2% on the week. Started the week at $3,800. Just. Still. Just a little bit. A little bit above that. Um, but sale prices are up, not down. So that's what we're happy about. A total crypto market cap, $2.77 trillion. I would call that flatty up. Flatty up.

Speaker A: Flatty up. Um, let's talk about layer twos in this section sponsored by our friends over at mantle, which is a layer two you absolutely should be using right now. Uh, David, big news this week. Base entered number two. The number two. Layer two by total value locked. I know there are some who think total value locked is a meme. I, for one, don't. I think it's.

Speaker B: I don't think it's a meme.

Speaker A: I think. I think it is a marker of progress and traction. And so it's a big move. Base taking the spot from the op. Main net still trailing arbitrum by about half. So arbitrum sitting on top with 19.3 billion. And then baseball casual, $19 billion.

Speaker B: I mean, definitely congratulations for base, for. For flipping optimism mainnet. This has always been the optimism strategy is like optimism mainnet, I kind of think, is taking the Ethereum foundation strategy of operating by a design by subtraction mindset, so it's happy to see its own child chains its own, let everyone.

Speaker A: Else do the work, is what I call that.

Speaker B: Really good strategy. But, yeah, you can't really ignore the absolute gargantuan of the nearly $20 billion that arbitrum has. Tvl overall, $47.8 billion on layer twos creeping up and up and up, still waiting. Yeah, that is all time high, not $50 billion. I'll celebrate a $15 billion. I'll also celebrate at 100. I'll celebrate along the way, too. Also, what's been pretty cool to see over the last month or so is just the on chain profit for these layer two chains. This has been the thing that Ryan and I have been beating the drum about for years and will continue to be the drum about for years. It's extremely easy to be profitable as a layer two. So revenue from layer two gas fees, minus the cost of posting state routes on the layer one base, took in almost $7 million in profits in May. Just May. This is one month, $7 million in one month optimism. That optimism. Mainnet took in $1.57 million. Scroll took in $1.3 million. Arbitrum took in $800,000, and Linea took in $612,000 in one month.

Speaker A: Profitability, that is a pure profit, too. No issuance, no additional tokens, of course, more getting unlocked, but no addition, additional inflation that are being paid to validators. But maybe, of course, issuance is a meme. And not quite sure there's been debates about this recently.

Speaker B: All of the things that you thought were real and fundamentals, Ryan, are actually just memes.

Speaker A: Well, it's really cool to see healthy businesses, very healthy businesses being birthed on just value added reselling of ethereum block space. That's what they're doing. They're basically adding execution, adding value, and able to, like, make money on this. It's pretty impressive. And I think this is the sort of thing that's going to attract more and more layer twos into crypto, right? I mean, everyone else is looking over there and seeing like, what, 7 million a month for base? I want to do that, and I.

Speaker B: Can deploy a chain using the op stack for free.

Speaker A: Hey, it sounds pretty good. Okay, let's talk about Uniswap volume on arbitrum as well. As well, while we're looking at layer two. So monthly arbitrum volume on Uniswap has doubled compared to last year. So May 2023. For benchmark, we were at about 6.8 billion. And now 2024 in May, we're close to 12 billion. So pretty impressive. Although I will say, david, I would.

Speaker B: Just one, one more point. That is $12 billion on Arbitrum. That is $12 billion on uniswap volume on arbitrum. That's just one of the layer twos.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I know this is maybe an unpopular sentiment among some right now, but I feel like Ethereum strategy, just, like, might be working. David, so look at these two charts. ETH still feaking. This yellow line right here is ethereum fees. Right. And so, and the pink bars at the bottom here, this is a token terminal chart, are the top layer twos combined, all of their fees, the fees that we just talked about for base, and all of the other layer twos, plus the Solana combined fees. And Solana has been selling some block space here recently.

Speaker B: Solana has been fee positive.

Speaker A: It's still about like that. All of that combined is about one fourth of the total Ethereum fees here recently. And so Ethereum is still the king in terms of generating fees. And also on layer twos, transaction fees are under a cent, which has been a design goal as well. So you've got feed generation on the Ethereum layer one, and they've got transactions, least on layer twos for under a cent. I think Ethereum doesn't get enough credit for that. I mean, that's what it was trying to do. And it's kind of working. It's kind of doing it.

Speaker B: Yeah, you can actually see this is all kind of speculative. We don't really know. But, like, gas fees on the layer one have also been, like, meaningfully low. We don't really have. You can pull up ultrasound money. Ether has actually been inflationary, sadly, for 30 days in a row. Half a percent of yearly inflation over the last 30 days. So there's actually less demand for ethereum layer one block space. But we're seeing that turn into profitability numbers on the layer twos, which is kind of interesting dynamic. But I mean, that's what we've been saying, hey, go beyond the layer two s. That's where you're meant to be. And that's resulted in demand for layer two block space. As a result of that, pretty consequentially less demand for layer one block space.

Speaker A: David, there's three other crypto milestone numbers to talk about on the week. This first one you brought drew my attention to this. So Eigen layer just quietly passed 20 billion in this meaningless metric, total value locked, which. 20 billion is a lot, right? That's a lot of ETh inside of this protocol.

Speaker B: A lot of eth. That's a lot of eth. Yeah. I think people who are starting to just, like, look elsewhere beyond Eigen layer after the Eigen layer token drop, I think people were. I'm sure we're expecting TVL to, like, leave Eigen layer. Why would you leave it in Eigen layer after the token? But the opposite happened. I think it was $14 billion when the Eigen Lair token airdrop happened. Now we're at $20 billion.

Speaker A: Why are we points farming? Like, what are we doing here?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I still have my Ethan Eigen Lair. Why I still have it in Eigen layer. I guess it's because I'm assuming I'll get rewarded for that for seasons two and three, even though the parameters aren't out that out there yet.

Speaker A: That must be what the market's assuming because the AVss aren't live yet.

Speaker B: Yeah. And despite the negative feedback about the Eigen lair token, drop the APY for depositors into Eigen layer was like stellar. It was like 70, 80% APY for your time.

Speaker A: I noticed that negative feedback has mostly evaporated. At least that was kind of like a two week sentiment type thing. But that's not the only milestone to talk about. So this is big. Etherfi and Pendle both surpassed uniswap in total value locked as well. This is kind of surprising to me. Of course, both of these are like restaking protocols in that. In that category. So somewhat based off of that 20 billion in Eigen layer that we just set up. But passing uniswap, how do you make sense of this?

Speaker B: Yeah, so there are transactional applications, and then there are, like, depositing applications. Etherfi and Pendle are both, like depositing applications, as in, like, you put your money in there and then you, like, hold it there. Etherfi is an LRT liquid restaking token. Pendle is kind of an LRT derivatives platform. It's a yield derivative platform. A lot of people are using it to speculate on points now. So it's kind of like the center point, the center point of all point speculation. And you put your TVL in, and then you hold it there over a long period of time. Uniswap is less like that. Uniswap is more like, you just go and trade a, you go one token in, one token out.

Speaker A: So it's not really an apples to apples comparison, then. They're kind of like different functions.

Speaker B: Yes, it could be an apples to apples comparison. Like, the reason why you're putting your ether into Pendle and Etherfi and all your tokens is because of yield. Like, you're getting compensated for that. Some people are liquidity providing in Uniswap, and that is the $6.1 billion that's in Uniswap compared to the $6.2 billion in Pendle and Etherfi. But, like, getting yield out of Uniswap is harder because of this thing called sex dex arbitrage, whereas Uniswap LP's are getting squeezed by people arbitraging out the pools, because it's actually just not a very efficient place to get your yield. I think that there is potentially a renaissance coming for the yield coming out of Uniswap, because Uniswap is generating pretty strong fees for its layer, its LP's. It's just hard to be a profitable LP because you keep getting arbed out by MEV bots. There's this startup called Cerella Labs that is building a Uniswap V four hook that does a very similar mechanism to how, you know, how like all the MEV and the MeV Ethereum supply chain ultimately either gets burned or passed to Ethereum stakers. There's a very similar primitive that Cirilla is building as a hook where you deposit your Uniswap liquidity through the Sorella hook and MEV bundles and transaction bundles through this hook, instead of going to MEV bots, ends up just going recycled back into Uniswap LP. So Uniswap LP's are passive receivers of the MeV of Uniswap. And so there's an obvious incentive to deposit your liquidity if you're going to be a market maker on Uniswap to deposit it through the Cirilla hook, because then you actually earn the MEV that Uniswap otherwise would accrue.

Speaker A: So I think what you're saying is Uniswap TVL is going to make a comeback because like right now it's not very profitable or yield generating for Uniswap LP's to keep their funds in there. But like, there are some protocols that are emerging to make it much more profitable to kind of like fix that problem.

Speaker B: I think a possible future is that this hook design from Sorella Labs produces a renaissance in Uniswap TVL and also therefore Uniswap price execution. One of the big things I remember talking to this about Mike Caplito when we had our podcast with him is we need to get price discovery back on chain. We needed to get price discovery away from binance, away from Coinbase, and put it into Uniswap. And this is how you do that. And that hopefully would come with a resurgence of the ability of just being able, a passive liquidity provider to Uniswap. Anyways, a little bit of a side quest here.

Speaker A: Uniswap TVL down then right now. But David's forecasting up something else that's up, though, is the price of BNB old binance token. So it is apparently at all time.

Speaker B: Highs, all time highs, all time highs coming in at a fully diluted valuation of $108 billion.

Speaker A: And this is not no longer on Czswatch, of course. So cz just started his prison sentence. Did he, like last week or the week before? Something like this. One thing that we are going to do is we're having, uh, Richard Tang on the podcast. Uh, bankless podcast. Podcast. The podcast. That'd be a great name, dude. Uh, the, the Bankless podcast tomorrow. And he is the new binance CEO. So we want to pick his brain, see who he is, find out a little bit more about him, because I don't think the crypto industry has really gotten to know him. But, uh, yeah. All time highs for BNB trade. What, what does that, this put, um, bnb in terms of the, like, top five. Number five.

Speaker B: Number four. Number four.

Speaker A: Number four, actually.

Speaker B: I just. Oh, wow. It flips. Solana. Oh, wow. By a lot.

Speaker A: Huh. Interesting.

Speaker B: It's got $30 billion on Solana.

Speaker A: Should we ask Richard about price?

Speaker B: Yes. Okay, so something, something that's going on across all prices is we're getting some rate cuts. Can you walk us through what's going on here, mister Tradfi?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, this is Mister Tradfi, like, chiming in here. So actually, two big things happened. First, Canada, Central bank of Canada was the first g seven nation to cut interest rates. So bank of Canada said, hey, we're capitulating. We've been raising interest rates and keeping it steady for the last, like, I don't know, four or five years. And now we're cutting. All right, so that was like one day last week. And then the European Central bank also announced a rate cut. And this, for the European Central bank is the first time in five years, in the last five years that it started to cut rates. So the expectation is a 0.25% cut, which brings the ECB deposit rate down to 3.75 from the 4% top that it received last September. So, David, these central banks are beginning to cut rates. And I think that is going to be that. This is a bellwether for what the Fed's going to do next. So the Fed could keep it steady, but this marks like the beginning of rate cuts. Like, so it begins. Vance Spencer says this is the largest rate cut cycle of our lifetimes. He says, I'm not sure people are appreciating just how high rates are and how low they will move in the coming one to two years. You know that Fed pivot I was just talking about? This is the bellwether for the big fed pivot.

Speaker B: This is the opener. It's the opening act. The main headliner is our Fed, our Federal reserve. But other federal reserves are cutting.

Speaker A: You know how they, they're all coordinating behind the scenes. So I mean, this is, yeah, this certainly a big deal. I feel like the stock market is maybe like front running some of these rate cuts. What's going on in stock world, David? Mister Tradfi.

Speaker B: I'm here for Zoomer Tradfi. Nvidia of course, sells GPU's, sells AI chips, sells the things that we need to have. The AI revolution has just been on an absolute tear for, honestly, a decade. But really in the last year or so as it's just, I think it breached apple. So now NVIA is worth more than Apple just continues to just absolutely pump. The earnings numbers that Nvidia is putting in here is incredible. Okay. Not quite beating Apple, but pretty damn close. Like $50 billion away from flipping it. Both of them are just right under $3 trillion.

Speaker A: Third largest company, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Third largest company ever. The CEO, Jensen, there was a meme going around because he was signing, signing the chest of a person. How do I explain this?

Speaker A: Just let him watch the. Look at the picture. Why?

Speaker B: Look at the picture. We have tech, CEO's signing, signing the boobies, people.

Speaker A: What is this? Is Jensen like a rock star? Is he big dealing are people?

Speaker B: This looks like he's a CEO of the greatest price rising sector of recent memory.

Speaker A: Since that signature, the price of Nvidia is up over $200 billion. So he'd be happy to know. So there you go.

Speaker B: Bullish. Bullish, okay. But that's not the only thing that's going on in the stonk world. Roaring kitty. I think we talked about roaring Kitty last week or maybe two weeks ago, he just tweeted something and then that caused the GameStop price to double and then liquidate a bunch of people. This is the same guy that created the whole GameStop revolution in 2021, 2020. He used to post his positions on Reddit. This is where deep fucking value was, his Reddit username, that he would post his positions on Reddit, like, relentlessly. He just stopped because, like, the GameStop movement kind of stopped. Interest rates went up. He stopped like years ago. Three years ago, he posted again his GameStop position for the first time in three years, just a couple of days ago. What was previously like a $22 million position in GameStop magically over the last three years has turned into a $210 million position in GameStop representing 5% of the entire company. So roaring Kitty, aka deep fucking value on Reddit, owns 5% of GameStop. He posted this on Reddit, which caused once again the GameStop price to double up to something of like 40 or $50 or something. Where are we at now? $42. $42 again, liquidating a bunch of people. I think it got up to a high of like $68. Absolutely insane. And then people are wondering, like, where the hell did he get the extra $170 million to go leverage long on GameStop. Maybe people think he's like, taking, he's managing other people's money. I don't know. It's kind of crazy that he's just doing the same playbook that he's already done and he's just doing it again because GameStop continues to be, like, heavily shorted. Yeah, it's kind of nuts.

Speaker A: All right, so some people are calling, like, deep tradfi is calling this market manipulation.

Speaker B: Tradfi deep state.

Speaker A: Yeah, the tradfi deep state. E trade is. I'm calling him out on this. Do they try to close his account? Something like this?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So he's managing his like, $210 million portfolio casually, just through e trade. I actually don't know where else you would manage your portfolio, but that's because I don't have that $200 million portfolio. And some people are, they're saying, like, we're considering kicking him off the platform for market money. But then, like, everyone watching this is like, what? Market manipulation? He's posting his positions publicly. How has he. Manipulating the market?

Speaker A: Yeah, he's posting publicly. He's just posting his buys. It's not like he's trading off of.

Speaker B: Posting sort of insider information and memes.

Speaker A: Huh. I guess maybe buying assets is market manipulation if you buy inside.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm not sure. But I do know that, like, large funds and large investors do this all of the freaking time.

Speaker B: All the time. All the time. Intentionally so. Yeah. Like ex bank announces, like that, they're bullish on the stock, and then the stock goes up, like.

Speaker A: Well, I do think it's no coincidence that he decides to come back like the same week that the central banks are starting to lower interest rates. Maybe this is a sign of things to come.

Speaker B: But interesting, speaking of things to come.

Speaker A: What'S coming up in the roll up?

Speaker B: Coming up next, demand for the ethereum. ETF's is back. We had some pretty almost record breaking, not quite, but almost record breaking demand for the bitcoin ETF. And then, of course, that heralds good things, of course, with the ETH ETF. So we're going to give you the updates on the ETH ETF and what's going on with bitcoin ETF's van gives an extremely bullish price prediction for Ethereum. Hold onto your hats. And Biden vetoed sab 121 so so long, too, the democratic crypto vote. So we're going to get to all of that and more. But first, a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially.

Speaker A: Let's talk ETF's once again, David, the bitcoin ETF is back. We also want to talk about the Ethereum ETf. When are we going to actually get that, and what's that going to do for prices? Let's start with bitcoin. Bitcoin, though, first. So it seems like it was a big week for bitcoin ETF inflows. What are we looking at in the charts?

Speaker B: The last time, bitcoin was just, like, breaking. It broke through all time highs, and everyone was super bullish, and bitcoin went from 40,000 to 70,000, and then all of a sudden, it stopped and bitcoin fell down $10,000. All of that was super correlated to flows. To flows. Why is bitcoin up almost to $72,000, almost breaking all time highs? Because of the flows, we had almost a record breaking day of flows, a week of flows. In this. In this last week, just on June 4, we had almost $800 million of inflows. Excuse me, almost $900 million of inflows into the bitcoin ETF's. The fidelity FBTC, actually a standout winner here, taking almost half of that. And so, just the flows have resumed. The water spigot is back on. The, uh, buying pressures coming back to bitcoin, uh, and that's what's been going on. So, really, really just healthy week. We're hoping, of course, for continuation. This was part of, uh, everyone's kind of sentiments about how the bitcoin ETF's is just going to work. Uh, you're going to have your initial wave of demand, but then there's going to be some laggards, some holdouts, uh, a lot of institutions who intentionally move slow just want these things to age. But now the bitcoin ETF's is starting to approach six months old. Uh, and so we're getting. Getting the next another wave of flows. Ibitan, the black blackrock. Bitcoin ETF is the fastest ETF ever to hit $20 billion in a, um. Aum is just tvl for tradfi. Uh, and so, congrats to adbit, to ibit. Congrats.

Speaker A: Look at this chart, David, look at this chart. This is the ibit chart, uh, competing against the. The. Formerly the, um. Now it's the second fastest growing ETF in history, which is something called the Gepi. I'm actually not sure what that is right. But some other large ETF, and it got to 20 billion in 985 days. It's only taking the bitcoin ETF, particularly ibit, which is just one of the ETF's 137 days. That's absolutely insane. Like, the difference between these, like, these two ETF's on the charts.

Speaker B: The Jepi is the JPMorgan equity premium income ETF. It's an actively managed ETF out of JP Morgane. Uh, the bitcoin ETF. One of the bitcoin ETF's just absolutely blasting through some records here. It's kind of funny. The, the ETF that. I bet the bitcoin ETF from Blackrock goes up to like $18 billion almost immediately. Like, inside of 50 days, it tries to go down. And that was like, the last, like, two to three months of just, like, not positive price action. It tries to go down, and then now we're at, like, record high.

Speaker A: What's also crazy about this and why it's going to continue breaking records is because, like, it's not just about flows. Imagine the price of bitcoin doubles. I mean, we're just talking on an episode earlier this week of chamath, like, bear case bull prediction for bitcoin this cycle, 250k, right? I mean, that is like a two x three. Like, that's like a three x from here. And so that's going to get us to 60 billion in ibit. Just like that. Like, price appreciation alone. Like, inflows aside, I have a, I.

Speaker B: Have an opposite take, actually.

Speaker A: What's your.

Speaker B: Yeah, so you say, like, yeah, in order to get TVL to. In order to get like, a ultvl.

Speaker A: Traffic calls, which is a meme aum.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But so, like. But yeah, we could all. The price of bitcoin can just double, and then all of a sudden you'll have double. Double the aum. Well, the only thing moving the prices these days, Ryan, is, like, flows into the ETF. You think? So that's the thing that is moving the price. Yeah, and, like, I think there's evidence for this. This is, I think, an answer as to why people are, like, slightly frustrated about the ETh price after the ETF announcement. Like, we had that 25%, like, God candle, the biggest God candle in Ethereum system.

Speaker A: No net new buyers.

Speaker B: That was the crypto industry itself. Like, taking all of its slack that it would allow and giving it into ether, but, like, not any, like, there's not any net new buyers. And then people are still, like, unresistant to buy ether. Beyond that, like, there are still people, like, showing what their portfolios are like on Twitter. Some people just like, snapshot, like, their percentages of their portfolios, and like, it's still like 60% Solana, 70% Solana. Like, the Solana community is like, not willing to sell their Solana to buy ether. I think anyone who is willing to buy ether as a result of the Ethereum ETF news has already done it. And so that's the, that's, that's why ETh isn't going up anymore, because it's like everyone did it in that one candle. And now if you want ETH to go up anymore, you actually need the flows from the ETF.

Speaker A: All right, we're going to get those flows, though, right? Let's talk about that now. So the Ethereum ETF, two questions on people's minds. One is when it's, when is it going happen? And two, what's it going to do to price? So let's talk about both of these. Um, on when's it going to happen? The estimates that we've heard range from like one to three months. Something in that range. That's sort of what the, like, the bitcoin process was. People can't imagine it would take too much longer than that. We are seeing some positive signs because the issues are doing things. Black blackrock just seeded the EtH ETF with $10 million. They did this with bitcoin. They're just like, that's nice. There's some inflows for you. 10 million we got.

Speaker B: Blackrock has bought $10 million of ether in the last week. That's nice.

Speaker A: And there is. So they're planting the seed right here. Also, the ETH ETF issuers, a fee war has been set off. So it looks like Franklin is discounting its fees to 19 bips.

Speaker B: David, 19 lows and bitcoin ETF, too.

Speaker A: Yup. So they're leaving the pack. They all compete for the lowest possible fees. And then we've seen some other ETH related products. This is a new ether related filing. This is a covered call. ETF. Eric Balchuna says all of this activity is going on with the ETH filers is the equivalent of the Oklahoma land rush scene in far and away. I've not seen this movie, but this is what he's talking about. Give you some visuals here. Right. It's just like this kind of thing. You see what I'm talking about, where.

Speaker B: You'Ve got, we just have everyone on horses just stampeding westward for a land grab. Oh, we're going west. Yeah, they're all going west.

Speaker A: It's a land grab. That's what the issuers are doing right now. Any, all positive sentiments from that front. But David. But guess who decided to show up this week and, you know, put some rain on that parade? It was our friend Gary Gensler. What's this?

Speaker B: He's, as he was apparently on a CNBC squawk box and says that the ETH ETF approvals will, quote, take some time. So it's not going to happen this week? Probably not going to happen next week. I'm going to give it a month.

Speaker A: When you have one month, you, you estimate a month?

Speaker B: Yeah, early July.