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---
layout: transcript
interviewee: hana none bruml
rg_number: rg-50.030.0043
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0043_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn506773
gender: f
birth_date: 1922-05-30
birth_year: 1922.0
place_of_birth: prague
country: czechoslovakia
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: theresienstadt,auschwitz-birkenau
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: west
needs_research: none
data_entry: cl
accession: 1990.355.1
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
---
layout: transcript
interviewee: hana none bruml
rg_number: rg-50.030.0043
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0043_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn506773
gender: f
birth_date: 1922-05-30
birth_year: 1922.0
place_of_birth: prague
country: czechoslovakia
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: theresienstadt,auschwitz-birkenau
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: west
needs_research: none
data_entry: cl
accession: 1990.355.1
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">HANA BRUML February 27, 1990 TECHNICAL CONVERSATION</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4">Q: Could you tell me your name please?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="6">A: Uh my name is Hanna Brum.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="8">Q: And where and when were you born?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="10">A: I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, uh May 30th, 1922.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="12">Q: Could you tell me something about your family, and growing up?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="14">A: I was very fortunate because we lived with my grandmother and grandfather in the same <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="15">I was the only child.</sentence><sentence id="16">My mother had a child a year before me, but he died just before delivery.</sentence><sentence id="17">So I was the first grandchild in the family.</sentence><sentence id="18">And I...all my first memories are about my grandfather, and I feel very warmly about him.</sentence><sentence id="19">He died when L...three months before my third birthday.</sentence><sentence id="20">But nevertheless, all my memories are about my grandfather.</sentence><sentence id="21">And we simply had a love affair.</sentence><sentence id="22">Uh he would watch me to go across the <span class="DLF">street</span> to buy his cigars.</sentence><sentence id="23">His cigars were "Virginki," which means that they were tobacco from <span class="COUNTRY">Virginia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="24">Uh we called them "Virginki."</sentence><sentence id="25">And he watched me to cross the <span class="DLF">street</span> and give my little money on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">counter</span>, and bring him uh his cigars.</sentence><sentence id="26">And he very proudly looked after me, that I was able to do it.</sentence><sentence id="27">So at the very early childhood, he really pushed me to independence, to do things for myself.</sentence><sentence id="28">I remember he had a little wooden <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">stool</span> with a crack in it.</sentence><sentence id="29">And I loved peanuts, but I was very small to crack them.</sentence><sentence id="30">So I put the peanuts in that little crack, and he gave me a mallet; and I would push the peanuts and I could have to open it myself.</sentence><sentence id="31">And these are memories that nobody could have really told me that uh about my grandfather.</sentence><sentence id="32">Or we went walking; and uh I even remember the <span class="DLF">streets</span> where we went.</sentence><sentence id="33">And he would give me a little coin; and I would go <span class="NPIP">inside</span> and give my little penny on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">counter</span>, and uh--whatever it was--and buy, you know, a little piece of candy.</sentence><sentence id="34">And he waited for me <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="35">And uh his birthday was in March, and he died just shortly afterwards.</sentence><sentence id="36">And I came to him to give him my little poem.</sentence><sentence id="37">I had to learn little tiny poems for the family, for the members of the family.</sentence><sentence id="38">That was my gift for their birthdays--to learn a poem.</sentence><sentence id="39">And I went to tell it to him, and he already didn't respond.</sentence><sentence id="40">I think he had a stroke.</sentence><sentence id="41">And I came out crying, because my grandmother...uh my grandfather didn't kiss me and he didn't say, "Thank you."</sentence><sentence id="42">That I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="43">That I was told.</sentence><sentence id="44">It's interesting.</sentence><sentence id="45">I don't remember the kind of a rejection, which I thought at that time.</sentence><sentence id="46">That I only remember loving things about him.</sentence><sentence id="47">And my grandmother was with us all my growing up.</sentence><sentence id="48">She had her birthday five days before mine; so we celebrated, more or less, birthday together.</sentence><sentence id="49">She always kept a piece of her cake for me.</sentence><sentence id="50">She was the one who told me stories.</sentence><sentence id="51">Uh I would crawl into her <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, and she would tell me a fairy tale I had heard about fifty-five times; but I wanted to hear it for the fifty-sixth time from her.</sentence><sentence id="52">Uh when I started going to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, she would cross the big <span class="DLF">street</span> to help me cross back again.</sentence><sentence id="53">And I was more concerned about her <span class="DLF">crossing</span> safely, but she was concerned my <span class="DLF">crossing</span> safely.</sentence><sentence id="54">So it got a little complicated there.</sentence><sentence id="55">But she was in many ways the mother on whom I patterned my life.</sentence><sentence id="56">And she had in her...she had a very orderly <span class="INT_SPACE">closet</span>.</sentence><sentence id="57">And in the <span class="INT_SPACE">closet</span>, she had a bag with her white shroud; and she knew according to the Jewish religion this is how she would want to be buried, and wanted to be buried with my grandfather in the same <span class="DLF">grave</span>.</sentence><sentence id="58">She never had a chance to use that shroud even though we sent it with her to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> [Czech: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Terezin</span>].</sentence><sentence id="59">But I knew that["s] what she wanted.</sentence><sentence id="60">Uh that was a sort of a thing to do every Sunday morning.</sentence><sentence id="61">We would go to <span class="DLF">Grandfather's grave</span>, and we'd put little stones.</sentence><sentence id="62">That's a tradition--you put a little stone.</sentence><sentence id="63">And if she was not able to go, I always put a little stone for her on my grandfather's <span class="DLF">grave</span>.</sentence><sentence id="64">And uh after the...after I returned I always...when I'm in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> go, and go to my grandfather's <span class="DLF">grave</span>.</sentence><sentence id="65">And since we were not able to put her there, we had her...1 had her name put on the same gravestone.</sentence><sentence id="66">And my relatives in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> are maintaining the <span class="DLF">grave</span>, even though many...even though so many are neglected.</sentence><sentence id="67">And uh so she is there, at least in memoriam, as she wished to be.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="123">Q: What, as you grew up, as you became a young woman, what was your schooling like?</sentence><sentence id="124">What were your friends like?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="127">A: For the first five years I went to a <span class="BUILDING">Jewish school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="128">It was more <span class="BUILDING">Zionistic Jewish school</span>, not a <span class="BUILDING">religious school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="129">We were twenty boys and ten girls.</sentence><sentence id="130">Out of the ten girls, we were five Hannas--because it was a very popular name.</sentence><sentence id="131">And out of the five girls, as far as...as far I can say, I'm the only one who survived.</sentence><sentence id="132">Out of the twenty boys, I know about five survived.</sentence><sentence id="133">I am in contact with one of them; and just recently, he sent me a picture of the second and the fourth grade, which was a real find for me.</sentence><sentence id="134">After that, I went to <span class="BUILDING">gymnasium</span>--which was the academic level.</sentence><sentence id="135">And uh then I went into a <span class="BUILDING">business school</span>, and I started working and be very... I was always very, very independent, very, very quickly.</sentence><sentence id="136">And my father led me to independence.</sentence><sentence id="137">Uh, I--as an eleven, twelve year old, I went to collect from his...from the builders money, so he would have for his payroll.</sentence><sentence id="138">And in the beginning they looked at this little girl who's coming to collect money, and would call my father: "Is that on the level?"</sentence><sentence id="139">And he said, "Yes."</sentence><sentence id="140">And I gave them a receipt, signed it.</sentence><sentence id="141">He told them it's OK, because nobody had an idea that I was bringing payroll money.</sentence><sentence id="142">So he was leading me, again, pretty much to independence.</sentence><sentence id="143">Because my mother was uh a rather sickly woman who had frequent pneumonias, who have had at least uh five, six miscarriages after me.</sentence><sentence id="144">I was the only live birth uh child.</sentence><sentence id="145">So I was uh uh freely very much led to independence, almost compensating for her; because she was really very shy, very sickly and had enormously uh uh heavy thick glasses because she was so near-sighted.</sentence><sentence id="146">Uh I was...my character was much more like my aunt--my mother's sister--and my father, who was much more outgoing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="167">Q: As you grew older, um you began to become involved with the young men?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="169">A: Uh I was...uh I was fortunate in my age we were still able to have some social life and go to <span class="BUILDING">dancing schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="170">It's all, you know, with the long dress and uh formalities.</sentence><sentence id="171">I was still about the last year that["s] where we were able to do it.</sentence><sentence id="172">And at that time, I was going with uh a student who was three years my age--so I was about sixteen, he was nineteen--by the name of Rudolph Schiff.</sentence><sentence id="173">We called him "Rudla."</sentence><sentence id="174">And uh when I was seventeen, and uh the <span class="DLF">gates</span> were closing on us uh and uh...things were starting really getting bad, we got married November 14th, 1939, at the <span class="BUILDING">City Hall</span>.</sentence><sentence id="175">Again, there was no <span class="BUILDING">housing</span> for us.</sentence><sentence id="176">I went <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="177">He went <span class="BUILDING">home</span> in the evening, because there was no possibility.</sentence><sentence id="178">In his uh...his families lived a couple of blocks away from us, so that was no big problem.</sentence><sentence id="179">And uh as uh the Germans were closing in, we had to go into more and more cramped <span class="INT_SPACE">quarters</span>.</sentence><sentence id="180">And his parents had a big <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> what had it sub-divided.</sentence><sentence id="181">And each <span class="INT_SPACE">bedroom</span> was given to another family.</sentence><sentence id="182">And uh the uh...so there was really no <span class="NPIP">where</span> to go.</sentence><sentence id="183">Then one of the families were sent with transport to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, so for couple of months we had one of the <span class="INT_SPACE">bedrooms</span>.</sentence><sentence id="184">In the meantime, he got scarlet fever.</sentence><sentence id="185">And at that time, when you had scarlet fever uh you had to go for six weeks into a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="186">Today, somebody with scarlet fever--it's [like] a strep throat.</sentence><sentence id="187">A couple of days, and you are fine.</sentence><sentence id="188">They thought that you were infectious for six weeks, until your started to peel.</sentence><sentence id="189">I had scarlet fever when I was in the first grade, so I knew what it meant for six weeks to be in isolation--which I was.</sentence><sentence id="190">By the way, I was in that <span class="INT_SPACE">isolation</span> at children["s] hospital; and the children["s] hospital was run by nuns.</sentence><sentence id="191">And the nuns said...came to us and uh said, "OK, children, get off your <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>, kneel and pray."</sentence><sentence id="192">And I said to the nun, "I'm sorry, I'm Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="193">I don't kneel."</sentence><sentence id="194">And so she said, "What are you going to do?"</sentence><sentence id="195">I said, "I'm going to pray in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> the way my grandmother taught me."</sentence><sentence id="196">And that was that.</sentence><sentence id="197">I did not follow the party line, and in many ways the nuns respected that.</sentence><sentence id="198">I was only seven--barely seven at that time, because I had my birthday in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="199">And uh so he had scarlet fever.</sentence><sentence id="200">He had to go to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>; and while he was in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, they brought in his <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> a little four year old--little Frankie.</sentence><sentence id="201">Cute little Frankie.</sentence><sentence id="202">The parents were Polish uh emigres who came to <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>; and while he was in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, they had to go with a transport and leaving the child in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="203">They didn't allow them to wait until he was discharged.</sentence><sentence id="204">So my sister-in-law--my husband's sister, Margit--uh sort of adopted him and uh was to take him.</sentence><sentence id="205">He went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, and while he was there she took care of him.</sentence><sentence id="206">But, of course, when she came with him to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, she went to gas with him.</sentence><sentence id="207">But when he...we had really difficulty during that time of all kinds.</sentence><sentence id="208">Uh during that time things were getting worse in terms of uh getting supplies, buying food, working, going places.</sentence><sentence id="209">I remember going on the <span class="DLF">street</span> and meeting one of my <span class="BUILDING">school</span> friends.</sentence><sentence id="210">Of course, by that time I had the star; and as we came closer to each other, we walked slower and slower, thinking, "Should I stop?</sentence><sentence id="211">Should I talk?</sentence><sentence id="212">Who was it worse for, her?</sentence><sentence id="213">Is it worse for me?</sentence><sentence id="214">What should we go and do?"</sentence><sentence id="215">So... And so we slowly came together, looked at each other, winked at each other, and passed again.</sentence><sentence id="216">It...it was that sort of a situation.</sentence><sentence id="217">You had to think, "Wait a minute.</sentence><sentence id="218">Is today Saturday?</sentence><sentence id="219">Saturday, I cannot go this <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="220">Friday, I cannot get that <span class="NPIP">place</span>."</sentence><sentence id="221">Because the restrictions were getting tighter and tighter.</sentence><sentence id="222">So it was a difficult time under any circumstances.</sentence><sentence id="223">Uh, now Rudie--my husband--had a brother, Karel Schiff, who was finishing his MD degree.</sentence><sentence id="224">By that time, Hitler came.</sentence><sentence id="225">And there were only two Jewish uh people who were supposed to get their degree.</sentence><sentence id="226">You know, that big day in Europe--it was a much bigger day to get your degree.</sentence><sentence id="227">Uh they gave the degree to everybody; and they took the two Jewish fellows to the <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span>, and gave them their diploma in the <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span>.</sentence><sentence id="228">And uh he had, as I said, a sister and a brother-in-law.</sentence><sentence id="229">None of them have returned.</sentence><sentence id="230">Uh, my father-in-law died in the transport from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="231">He died uh on the way.</sentence><sentence id="232">And my mother-in- law, was a very energetic woman, and brother-in-law were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">familienlager</span> [Ger: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">family camp</span>].</sentence><sentence id="233">And I was told how uh they knew what was going to happen to them.</sentence><sentence id="234">Uh, Rudla was with them; and uh I understood he was quite sick.</sentence><sentence id="235">And uh he died probably before he went to gas--in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">familienlager</span>, you know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="305">Q: Let's go back a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="306">Can you tell us a little more about the early years, of the German invasion, what that meant?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="309">A: Uh, I remember the day they came.</sentence><sentence id="310">I remember the day I sto...1 remember the <span class="NPIP">place</span>, the <span class="DLF">street</span> where I stood, and it was snowing.</sentence><sentence id="311">It was a cold day and they were pulling in - I was by myself.</sentence><sentence id="312">I just walked there.</sentence><sentence id="313">It was not far, maybe three-quarters of a mile from where we lived.</sentence><sentence id="314">And we were uh uh watching them on their <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span> with their <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tanks</span>, with their half- tracks, with guns pointing to the <span class="DLF">rooftops</span>.</sentence><sentence id="315">And it was snowing.</sentence><sentence id="316">And we knew that the screw is going to become tighter and tighter.</sentence><sentence id="317">Uh we knew what was happening in <span class="COUNTRY">Austria</span>.</sentence><sentence id="318">But somehow we still had some foolish idea we are in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="319">Because, I remember so clearly, when I was about eleven or twelve, I read a book about the Marranos.</sentence><sentence id="320">These were the uh Jews in <span class="COUNTRY">Spain</span> who during the Inquisition had a choice either to give up their religion or be uh converted [to] Catholicism; and many of them became converted only in name, and still celebrated secretly all the Jewish holidays.</sentence><sentence id="321">And uh this was a very interesting story about the Inquisitor, etc.</sentence><sentence id="322">And I remember--you know, the kind of vignettes one remembers from childhood--I remember telling my grandmother, "Aren't we fortunate that we live in the 20th century in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, that such a thing cannot happen to us!"</sentence><sentence id="323">Six short years, six short years [later, it] happened to us.</sentence><sentence id="324">Not only as to them, but much worse.</sentence><sentence id="325">Uh, kind of took away from us the protection that it happens to somebody else but not to us.</sentence><sentence id="326">One becomes and realizes how vulnerable one is.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="345">Q: When did things begin to change--for your family, in particular?</sentence><sentence id="346">How did you... Describe some of it. .</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="349">A: Uh, I worked at that time what they used to call a Palestina Amt [Ger: Palestine Office].Uh, at that time there were still people able to move, uh emigrate.</sentence><sentence id="350">And of course, when you signed your paper for emigration, if I was Hanna Schiff at that time, I had to sign it as "Hanna Sarah Schiff."</sentence><sentence id="351">All the women had to put down "Sarah," and all the men had to put in "<span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>" as a mid...as a middle name.</sentence><sentence id="352">And I was go...going to the Department of Treasury where I filled up some papers, and uh they had to pay that much of a... They had to give a list of all their property they were going to take with us in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">suitcases</span>, and they had to pay that much for this and that much for that.</sentence><sentence id="353">And so I was working on that.</sentence><sentence id="354">And therefore, I knew that the Jacob Edelstein was the head of the Palestina Amt, and knew some people there--which later became very important to me.</sentence><sentence id="355">Uh the... (pause) I worked during the time, but I cannot... My father for instance, he owned a workshop.</sentence><sentence id="356">That was taken away; and he had to start working again, because he didn't have such means.</sentence><sentence id="357">But fortunate my grandmother lived with my parents.</sentence><sentence id="358">Uh my parents" maid--who was worked with us probably ten, eleven years, was my mother's age--uh was very helpful and undemanding.</sentence><sentence id="359">And she went shopping, and she did what she could.</sentence><sentence id="360">But of course, her ration tickets were regular ration tickets; but our ration tickets were marked with a "J," so we couldn't shop when there was food in the <span class="BUILDING">stores</span>.</sentence><sentence id="361">We could <span class="BUILDING">shop</span> only at certain hours for certain things, etc.</sentence><sentence id="362">But nevertheless, she was very instrumental in helping us.</sentence><sentence id="363">Uh my parents were... Oh, I should go back to one <span class="NPIP">thing</span>.</sentence><sentence id="364">At that time uh when the Germans came, of course, they went to the Jewish Kultusgemeinde--the religious and cultural community--and wanted the name(s] of the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="365">And from there, they named...got the names of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="366">And we were so stupid, we went and we registered and we did what we could at that time.</sentence><sentence id="367">At that time, I had an infection in this finger, and uh it was following up my arm.</sentence><sentence id="368">And, of course, I couldn't go to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="369">By the way, at that point we were not allowed to use the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="370">Little bit later, there was one <span class="BUILDING">private hospital</span> converted; and Jews were able to use that little <span class="BUILDING">private hospital</span>, which was very crowded.</sentence><sentence id="371">But at that time, there was nobody; and the infection was continuing.</sentence><sentence id="372">Uh the uh Aryan, non-Jewish, gentile uh fiancee of my brother-in- law--of Karel Schiff--uh took me without a star into the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, told them I am her cousin, had me operated, and took me by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">taxi</span> <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="373">By the way, we were not allowed to use <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">taxis</span>.</sentence><sentence id="374">So at great danger to her--because she had to tell them I am her cousin--I was operated in a regular <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, and she took me <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="375">Because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to get help.</sentence><sentence id="376">I mean, these were the kind of things one doesn't even remember, because there were so many things that happened so often.</sentence><sentence id="377">But uh it was only because she had took me as her cousin, and she was a physician herself.</sentence><sentence id="378">Uh we were trying to hide a few things with some friends, and some friends were very cooperative and kept them.</sentence><sentence id="379">Uh some friends were afraid.</sentence><sentence id="380">And some friends decided if we don't come back, you know, they will keep it.</sentence><sentence id="381">It very much depended on which person.</sentence><sentence id="382">Uh I was just trying to think of something, and it just escaped me.</sentence><sentence id="383">Uh (SHORT PAUSE) that the... we helped by our listening to the orders to go and register people so they can be sent by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="384">And it depended uh what you did, where you lived, how you went with it.</sentence><sentence id="385">So you were continuously threatened: "Am I going to be on the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>?"</sentence><sentence id="386">Uh, of course, I'm not even talking about it that we had to give up uh jewelry, radio and so forth.</sentence><sentence id="387">Because if we listen to radio, it was dangerous, uh because all these restrictions were coming out.</sentence><sentence id="388">At one point, Heydrich--who was the protector of <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>--uh was uh killed on one of the <span class="DLF">streets</span> when two paratroopers who were sent from <span class="COUNTRY">England</span> were...threw a hand grenade under the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span>.</sentence><sentence id="389">And uh he was killed, and they were looking for them.</sentence><sentence id="390">And it was told that one was on a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycle</span>.</sentence><sentence id="391">So they came around us and looking and confiscating <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycles</span> and all of that.</sentence><sentence id="392">And we knew daily how many, we had uh lists of people.</sentence><sentence id="393">They were in the <span class="BUILDING">newspaper</span>.</sentence><sentence id="394">They were posted lists of people who were shot, who were hung, etc.</sentence><sentence id="395">etc.</sentence><sentence id="396">Friend of mine was among them.</sentence><sentence id="397">Political reasons, or whatever reasons there were.</sentence><sentence id="398">It was like if you were in... It was a screw.</sentence><sentence id="399">It was a forever tightening screw, with more regulations.</sentence><sentence id="400">And the screw was tightening over our heads.</sentence><sentence id="401">Uh my parents went in July-- June or July...at the end of July (cough), July of "42, uh to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="402">My grandmother went with them.</sentence><sentence id="403">My grandmother was at that time bed- ridden most of the time.</sentence><sentence id="404">Her mind was fine.</sentence><sentence id="405">Her hair was black.</sentence><sentence id="406">At eighty-six her hair was black and was long; and when I was good, I was allowed to braid it.</sentence><sentence id="407">And uh she...her mind was fine; but when my parents packed and went, uh she went with them because she lived with them.</sentence><sentence id="408">And when they came to carry her down, they carried her on a litter down the <span class="DLF">staircase</span> and put her with the other old people on the bottom of a spediteur [Ger: "<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">moving van</span>"], of a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">moving van</span>.</sentence><sentence id="409">And that's how they took her to the <span class="BUILDING">gathering place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="410">The last word from her was: "Love each other.</sentence><sentence id="411">Be good to each other.</sentence><sentence id="412">Love each other.</sentence><sentence id="413">Be good to each other."</sentence><sentence id="414">As they carried her down the <span class="DLF">steps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="415">There was no complaint; there was just kind of a blessing.</sentence><sentence id="416">And from my mother, I know--because I met my mother in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>--she said in the moment she came to the <span class="BUILDING">gathering place</span>, with all the commotion and all that craziness with her, she became so confused.</sentence><sentence id="417">She didn't know what was going on.</sentence><sentence id="418">She doesn't know what was happening to her.</sentence><sentence id="419">And uh they took her to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, nevertheless.</sentence><sentence id="420">They put them on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="421">You know, the kind of <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> when you move the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span> so to slide things off.</sentence><sentence id="422">And then how they slid the old people off when they brought them to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Theresien[stadt</span>], so they put them to <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="423">She died three months...three weeks after arriving at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="424">And I was told [by] somebody she was begging for couple cubes of sugar from somebody who came to see her.</sentence><sentence id="425">And she was buried in one of the last <span class="DLF">mass graves</span> at that time.</sentence><sentence id="426">The reason I know, when we came back after the war to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, we went to look up the original records.</sentence><sentence id="427">And in the original records, it showed when she was buried and what was the <span class="DLF">mass graves</span>.</sentence><sentence id="428">We went to the <span class="DLF">field</span>, because you could still see where they dug the furrows, put the bodies in and put the soil over it.</sentence><sentence id="429">So it was always like heaps and valleys, heaps and valleys.</sentence><sentence id="430">So we could figure out, of course; because, you know, Germans registered which row it was in.</sentence><sentence id="431">So we could count about which row it was, put some flowers on her, and had her name put on the <span class="DLF">grave</span>.</sentence><sentence id="432">Because that's about all I could do for my grandmother at that time.</sentence><sentence id="433">But my memory of her is that her last word was "Be good to each other, and love each other."</sentence><sentence id="434">There was not many people to whom one could transfer it, but that was her last words.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="524">Q: When and how were you and your husband taken ?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="526">A: Uh, as I said, we were living with the in-laws and we knew that it's tightening.</sentence><sentence id="527">And we were in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> reading--I remember it so clearly.</sentence><sentence id="528"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Steinbeck</span>.</sentence><sentence id="529">John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath.</sentence><sentence id="530">And the knock on the <span class="DLF">door</span> came, and our invitation to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="531">I don't think I ever finished reading the book.</sentence><sentence id="532">Uh we packed very carefully the suitcases.</sentence><sentence id="533">Very carefully; because this was the only possessions we were going to have.</sentence><sentence id="534">When we came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> we never got the suitcases.</sentence><sentence id="535">Our <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>, which was the first transport of fifteen hundred people, gave these suitcases as a gift to the German nation for the bombed- up people.</sentence><sentence id="536">So I was so glad we had contributed something.</sentence><sentence id="537">But we... For the next years, we...we had only what we carried on our backs.</sentence><sentence id="538">Fortunately, uh when we came to the <span class="BUILDING">gathering station</span>, uh we were told--we were fifteen hundred people--and all of a sudden said only a thousand will go.</sentence><sentence id="539">All the women will be pulled out.</sentence><sentence id="540">Then they pulled us back, so I didn't have the... They took my number next to my husband, and they gave me another number.</sentence><sentence id="541">So I went through all the years in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> as "Transport BA" and "Number 1101."</sentence><sentence id="542">And uh in...uh during the time in this <span class="BUILDING">gathering place</span> that used to be <span class="BUILDING">exhibition hall</span>, uh we were... Over the mar...over the PA system came: "Anybody who has money on him, or gold or cigarettes or matches will be shot, da da da da."</sentence><sentence id="543">I had all of this on me.</sentence><sentence id="544">We had to, because we had to protect ourselves somehow.</sentence><sentence id="545">In the lining of our coats, I had a metal...you know, Yardley talc used to come in a metal box.</sentence><sentence id="546">In that box, I had some jewelry.</sentence><sentence id="547">And so you heard all of this, and nevertheless you had to sort of stay with it.</sentence><sentence id="548">We came to uh our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bohusovice</span>.</sentence><sentence id="549">At <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">BohuSovice</span> was the train stop for <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="550">And as I said--I don't know if I said it, my husband was rather weak and sickly at that point.</sentence><sentence id="551">And we carried a big bag--each tried to hold one handle--in which were food, mostly, and in the other <span class="NPIP">side</span> we each had a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> roll.</sentence><sentence id="552">And on our backs, we had a knapsack with just a change of few things.</sentence><sentence id="553">Turned out that was the only thing we had for the next years, what we carried with us.</sentence><sentence id="554">When we came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">BohuSovice</span> there, in front of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> was Jacob Edelstein, whom I knew.</sentence><sentence id="555">And I said, "Hello," to him; and he said to me, "Try to get yourself to confirmed to work as soon as possible."</sentence><sentence id="556">I didn't know what it meant.</sentence><sentence id="557">But what it meant: if you are not going to get work immediately, then be [perfect (ph)] that you could go on.</sentence><sentence id="558">And many of our people.</sentence><sentence id="559">Of course, I went with all possible speed about protect ourselves.</sentence><sentence id="560">At that time, uh all the uh civilians of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> were evacuated; and whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> belonged to us.</sentence><sentence id="561">Because before the people were only in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kaserne</span> [Ger: "barracks"], into the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>; and the civilians were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="562">We were able to move around.</sentence><sentence id="563">I was very short for a <span class="BUILDING">house</span>; and I went to get myself confirmed, and I found a job as a nurse.</sentence><sentence id="564">There were two small <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> right opposite of the main <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kaserne</span>, where the uh leadership was; and it was... Germans in their organizations took away all the names of the <span class="DLF">street</span>.</sentence><sentence id="565">And because <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> was built as a <span class="DLF">grid</span>, they called all these named "L," and these named "quer," [Ger: "crosswise"]--"Q" and "L." "Lang" [Ger: "lengthwise"] and "quer."</sentence><sentence id="566">So Q told, you would know, typical German.</sentence><sentence id="567">So we were... these two <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> were L-17 and L-19, 217 and 219.</sentence><sentence id="568">These were two smallish <span class="BUILDING">villas</span> that were joined together; and that was to become the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="569">The first doctor was Hans Schauffer (ph), a gynecologist from--I'm sorry, a pediatrician--from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Brno</span>; and he eventually had three young doctors with him.</sentence><sentence id="570">We had first children who had whooping coughs.</sentence><sentence id="571">At that time there was no antibiotics, no vaccination.</sentence><sentence id="572">The only thing what we had was Persan...not <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Persantil</span>.</sentence><sentence id="573">I can't... told you the name, and I cannot remember now.</sentence><sentence id="574">Uh, from P. It was a sulfa drug.</sentence><sentence id="575">It made by Bayer at the same time.</sentence><sentence id="576">And it was red and it created everything, dyed everything red.</sentence><sentence id="577">And there was few people who had some uh uh sulfa that was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Cibasol</span>, made by Ciba in <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="578">But that was very very rare to get.</sentence><sentence id="579">And if these children got... Protosol, was I think the name.</sentence><sentence id="580">Uh when they got it, even their vomit from the coughing, everything was red.</sentence><sentence id="581">Now, we had in these two small <span class="BUILDING">villas</span>, there was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">iron bed</span> next to <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">iron bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="582">There were not even little aisles in between them, because there was no <span class="INT_SPACE">space</span>.</sentence><sentence id="583">Uh if laundry was possible, maybe it was changed every week, maybe every two weeks for these children; because we didn't have the laundry available.</sentence><sentence id="584">It was very difficult to get it.</sentence><sentence id="585">So all what we had was us and the kindness, to try [to] wash them.</sentence><sentence id="586">Also, so many of the children got impetigo...impet--I don't know what you call.</sentence><sentence id="587">And they were only painted with some purple--I don't know what you call that-- purple dye to neutralize it."</sentence><sentence id="588">Uh, at that time little TB came also; and we had one beautiful bright thirteen year old die of TB.</sentence><sentence id="589">His brother's still alive, and is a friend of mine.</sentence><sentence id="590">Uh many " Possibly gentian violet?</sentence><sentence id="591">of these, uh the mothers couldn't visit them.</sentence><sentence id="592">There were no visiting hours.</sentence><sentence id="593">It was impossible to get visitors in.</sentence><sentence id="594">There was only through the <span class="DLF">windows</span>; because it was so crowded and many of these things were infectious.</sentence><sentence id="595">At that time came a very big uh ...epidemic, at that time for <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, of scarlet fever and eventually typhoid-- abdominal typhoid.</sentence><sentence id="596">And the scarlet fever, the whole <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> was converted to <span class="BUILDING">scarlet fever hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="597">Now, we came in and out; we didn't have any disinfection.</sentence><sentence id="598">I had sort of a...a...what we would call today a running suit, in black-- sweatsuit--and I had a...somebody gave me a white apron.</sentence><sentence id="599">And we had only one advantage.</sentence><sentence id="600">And this was a terrific advantage; because of our two small <span class="BUILDING">villas</span> there was a small <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span>, and you were able... There...there was a kettle, and you could make fire, you can have... So two of us at a time could take a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span>.</sentence><sentence id="601">And that was very, very precious for us.</sentence><sentence id="602">That we worked twelve hour shifts, and we could go and have a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span>.</sentence><sentence id="603">Now when I meant "shift," that means we had to serve the food, which was brought in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kettles</span>.</sentence><sentence id="604">We had to wash the dishes.</sentence><sentence id="605">We had to wash the <span class="INT_SPACE">floors</span>.</sentence><sentence id="606">We had to make the fire.</sentence><sentence id="607">We have to wash the patients.</sentence><sentence id="608">We had to do everything, because people couldn't come in to do other things.</sentence><sentence id="609">We did everything.</sentence><sentence id="610">We did get a little tiny bit of extra.</sentence><sentence id="611">Little tiny bit of extra food.</sentence><sentence id="612">But it was a very little tiny bit of food, and because my husband was sickly and he couldn't work, I was giving him the extras, anyhow.</sentence><sentence id="613">Uh it was hard work.</sentence><sentence id="614">It was hard work with the children.</sentence><sentence id="615">It was hard work with the people.</sentence><sentence id="616">At that time, typhoid started coming in, as I said.</sentence><sentence id="617">And we had one man, his name was Rudolph...uh, Rudie Kohn...Cohen, from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>; and he and Rudie...and Robert Kohn, was Cohen and Kohn were in the same <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="618">And they both had scarlet fever and typhoid.</sentence><sentence id="619">And I was on duty when Rudie died.</sentence><sentence id="620">And uh Robert was there; but this was our first real... No, he wasn't the first one; but from the typhoid was the first death we had in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="621">Uh, Robert eventually did not survive.</sentence><sentence id="622">And then we got seven children who had both scarlet fever and typhoid.</sentence><sentence id="623">And because they were [live or arrive (ph)] through the <span class="DLF">yard</span>, there were two <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span> with a little <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span> and that was made to the wards for them.</sentence><sentence id="624">One <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> had two, and the other one had the less.</sentence><sentence id="625">And there was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">stove</span>, so (cough) as I said, we had to wash the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> and keep the fire going and wash the dishes, because people couldn't come in.</sentence><sentence id="626">Uh we washed them.</sentence><sentence id="627">We cleaned them.</sentence><sentence id="628">We did get typhoid shots.</sentence><sentence id="629">We got them in our shoulders, not in our arms, so we could work.</sentence><sentence id="630">And I have...the only thing we had to protect us from the typhoid was Lysol.</sentence><sentence id="631">We had Lysol, so we put.</sentence><sentence id="632">And we also knew the only infection from typhoid is goes through excretions.</sentence><sentence id="633">So when we dealt with excretions, we put the Lysol in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">water</span> and washed our hands.</sentence><sentence id="634">That was the only thing we had.</sentence><sentence id="635">Uh we had two boys--seventeen, one sixteen--and then little girls.</sentence><sentence id="636">The youngest one was Misha Lausher (ph).</sentence><sentence id="637">Uh one day I came in and they brought a little...was a little feverish girl in.</sentence><sentence id="638">I said, "What's your name?"</sentence><sentence id="639">And she says, "Misha."</sentence><sentence id="640">I said, "Misha Lausher!"</sentence><sentence id="641">That was my cousin's child.</sentence><sentence id="642">She was only five or six years old, but she knew her temperature for the last three days.</sentence><sentence id="643">A very bright child, in spite of everything.</sentence><sentence id="644">And her drawings, I kept; because she couldn't talk with her parents and be in contact.</sentence><sentence id="645">I was the only contact.</sentence><sentence id="646">I would take what she has written or drew, and I ironed it out with the heat; and this is...I could carry it out with them.</sentence><sentence id="647">And at that time, Misha has made--now this child was six years old--she drew a picture of a <span class="DLF">garden</span> and a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">tree</span> with a bird on it; and the bird had an opened beak and out of it came letters.</sentence><sentence id="648">And I said, "What is this?"</sentence><sentence id="649">And this is what she [said]: "It whistles."</sentence><sentence id="650">And she gave me the note, "It whistles."</sentence><sentence id="651">Misha is the only one who survived, of all the seven children. (</sentence><sentence id="652">Pause) Uh, and for the parents, it was heart-breaking.</sentence><sentence id="653">They were <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="654">They didn't know what was happening to their children.</sentence><sentence id="655">They didn't know how they were.</sentence><sentence id="656">We were the only contact what we could tell them.</sentence><sentence id="657">In the meantime, they were afraid they will be called into transport and the children would be left there; because they didn't know what was going to go on.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="793">Q: What was your husband doing all this time?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="795">A: Uh, not much.</sentence><sentence id="796">Not much.</sentence><sentence id="797">Uh, he was in the the <span class="BUILDING">men's barracks</span> the first time; and he was really going down the <span class="DLF">drain</span>.</sentence><sentence id="798">He didn't wash properly.</sentence><sentence id="799">And that was always a very bad sign, when you didn't keep up with your personal hygiene.</sentence><sentence id="800">Uh, I had to go up into the kaserne-- and the men knew me--and clean up his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, and clean up this and that.</sentence><sentence id="801">And uh he was sickly.</sentence><sentence id="802">He really couldn't do much.</sentence><sentence id="803">It was getting worse and worse; and uh he was, in many ways, resentful that I had the work and I could do that.</sentence><sentence id="804">And I remember when I came after night shift...worked on the night shift, and I wanted to sleep during the day.</sentence><sentence id="805">He woke me up, because here I was.</sentence><sentence id="806">It was very, very difficult.</sentence><sentence id="807">It was getting very difficult.</sentence><sentence id="808">And the marriage...I, you know, I was seventeen at that time and a naive.</sentence><sentence id="809">And as time went on, I realized more and more that the marriage could not last.</sentence><sentence id="810">When I--if I may back-track--uh, when uh I...when we came to uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, my parents were there already for three weeks.</sentence><sentence id="811">Uh, and couple...after I was there about... So therefore I knew about my grandmother from my mother; and my mother had her suitcases, I think.</sentence><sentence id="812">I don't even remember if I got something from her or not.</sentence><sentence id="813">Because they did get their suitcases; but they were there maybe only uh three weeks, month at the most, and they got called in a transport.</sentence><sentence id="814">And I went with them as far as I could go before the <span class="BUILDING">collection place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="815">And I was giving goodbye to my father and to my mother--in a way, much more emotionally to my father--and I knew in my heart of hearts that I was never going to see them.</sentence><sentence id="816">I really knew that I'm never going to see them again.</sentence><sentence id="817">And uh as far as I can see, tracing, they were somewhere in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="818">Uh the book says nobody knows where it was; but our maid, our Maru (ph), was in touch with them through some gendarme and sent them packages for a while.</sentence><sentence id="819">And I think they must have been somewhere at that point where <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">L'vov</span> [Pol: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lwow</span>] is--which is <span class="COUNTRY">Ukraine</span> now.</sentence><sentence id="820">And uh we were there two years ago, and I asked what were...what were the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> around there; and they told me there was a great many <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="821">But nobody could put their finger on it when I asked.</sentence><sentence id="822">And uh as far as I can again trace it, my father survived there and went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="823">Because somebody saw him in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>; and which was quite miraculous because by that time he was 55.</sentence><sentence id="824">And as...and he probably--as I say there's no certainty-- ended when one of those three big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ships</span> that were loaded with prisoners and sank in February of "45 in the Baltics, in the <span class="REGION">North Sea</span>.</sentence><sentence id="825">Uh, my mother, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="826">Uh, but I knew quite sure that I was not going to see them anymore.</sentence><sentence id="827">Uh, meanwhile some more distance relative came through, and they went.</sentence><sentence id="828">So we were forever living under a threat.</sentence><sentence id="829">Who is going to be in the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>?</sentence><sentence id="830">Who is going to be in the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>?</sentence><sentence id="831">And because I was...we were graded, we were rostered, and I was always fairly well graded...rated as a nurse, I was protecting my husband for a while, even though he didn't work.</sentence><sentence id="832">And how did I get confirmed for a job?</sentence><sentence id="833">I went to this big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kaserne</span>, to this big <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="834">0 You know, these were big stone <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> with many, many <span class="INT_SPACE">hallways</span> and <span class="DLF">yards</span>; and I was looking for the labor department.</sentence><sentence id="835">And I knew the name of the labor department's name [NB: head] uh was Robert Weinberg, who's... I knew about him from when I worked in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> in the Palestina Amt.</sentence><sentence id="836">But I didn't know him in person; and I know his nickname was "Winczi" (ph)].</sentence><sentence id="837">And I go the <span class="INT_SPACE">hallways</span>, and I'm looking for the <span class="BUILDING">office</span>; and I meet a person and I say, "Where is the <span class="BUILDING">office</span> of [Winczi (ph)]?"</sentence><sentence id="838">And the man looks at me.</sentence><sentence id="839">Says, "Well, how do you know my nickname?"</sentence><sentence id="840">And he was just that person I met.</sentence><sentence id="841">And, of course, he was helpful that I got confirmed for work.</sentence><sentence id="842">It was just coincidences all along.</sentence><sentence id="843">Coincidences all along.</sentence><sentence id="844">Uh, so things got pretty bad that I really couldn't tolerate it anymore; and the marriage ended.</sentence><sentence id="845">Which would have been ending, anyhow.</sentence><sentence id="846">Even if my husband had survived, it would have ended.</sentence><sentence id="847">And he went with the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">December transport</span>, with his parents and his brother.</sentence><sentence id="848">Uh, and they went to the familienlager--Karel Schiff, the doctor--and uh he knew what was the end, and my mother-in-law, too.</sentence><sentence id="849">Uh Rudla died probably of encephalitis in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">familienlager</span>.</sentence><sentence id="850">I had heard that he was asking for some mashed potatoes, for something to eat; which was, of course, impossible.</sentence><sentence id="851">And uh I uh made a friendship and then became a wife of one of the young doctors in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="852">His name was Bruno Mandel.</sentence><sentence id="853">He came from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prost_jov</span>, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Moravia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="854">He...he was there with his mother.</sentence><sentence id="855">Officially, we couldn't get a divorce and get married; because it was outside of the other <span class="REGION">jurisdiction</span>.</sentence><sentence id="856">But within the jurisdiction of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, we got on papers changed that I would be divorced and married to Bruno after the war.</sentence><sentence id="857">And when we were... And I volunteered to go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> with Bruno.</sentence><sentence id="858">We were the first transport of fifteen hundred people.</sentence><sentence id="859">Again, the second time around.</sentence><sentence id="860">There were five hundred women were allowed to volunteer.</sentence><sentence id="861">There were five transport of thousand men; and with the last one, five hundred women were allowed to volunteer.</sentence><sentence id="862">So, of course, I volunteered.</sentence><sentence id="863">And uh Bruno was carrying with him the papers, to be sure he had them with him.</sentence><sentence id="864">Uh, the... I don't know if I'm jumping from here to there...</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="937">Q: Let's...let's...let's slow down a minute, before you get on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="938">Tell me about Bruno.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="941">Tell me about how a romance could even flower under those conditions.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="942">A: We worked closely in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="943">He was uh...he was an internist.</sentence><sentence id="944">He would have trained for cardiology.</sentence><sentence id="945">He would have liked cardiology, and he would have been very good at it.</sentence><sentence id="946">Uh he has uh...uh he was very involved in his patients, and I could see it.</sentence><sentence id="947">So, you know, we worked together day by day.</sentence><sentence id="948">This is...this is the best I can say.</sentence><sentence id="949">It was very, very difficult, with all kinds of <span class="DLF">obstacles</span>.</sentence><sentence id="950">Because these two private <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> had a tiny little <span class="DLF">garden</span>.</sentence><sentence id="951">We had a tiny little plot where we could plant little radishes or something, which was the only fresh food one could get.</sentence><sentence id="952">And uh it...it was both the proximity and the idea.</sentence><sentence id="953">He was also very kind to me, which was very different from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Rudie</span>.</sentence><sentence id="954">Uh, he spoke um English; and we were reading together Lady Windermere's Fan."</sentence><sentence id="955">And I tried to read it and had to translate it, because he was trying to help me with English.</sentence><sentence id="956">He was trying to help me.</sentence><sentence id="957">We went over all the bones, so I would know them in Czech and German and Latin, in anatomy; and uh uh he was teaching me a great deal.</sentence><sentence id="958">He was ten years older than I. And uh so he was teaching me ?</sentence><sentence id="959">A play by Oscar Wilde.</sentence><sentence id="960">1 a great deal, too.</sentence><sentence id="961">And uh I knew he valued me a great deal, too.</sentence><sentence id="962">So, you know, these were all the things.</sentence><sentence id="963">Don't forget, I was there by myself.</sentence><sentence id="964">And at that time, his mother very much wanted me to be with him; while uh at Rudla's parents were also saying what am I doing.</sentence><sentence id="965">So I was under a great deal of pressure, besides working twelve hours a day, six days a week.</sentence><sentence id="966">So it was a great deal of pressure all around it.</sentence><sentence id="967">Nevertheless, we went in the evening to lectures that were held on the...under the rooves of the meetings.</sentence><sentence id="968">We were working under the uh we went to every cultural situation we could go to.</sentence><sentence id="969">Uh at that time, they started sending the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transports</span> of the older Germans.</sentence><sentence id="970">And they told them, of course, they were going into a <span class="BUILDING">sanitorium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="971">So they came in fur coats and big hats.</sentence><sentence id="972">And here they were brought from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="973">At that time, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> had sixty thousand people, instead of the six thousand in normal times.</sentence><sentence id="974">And they were put under the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">rooves</span> of the big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kaserne</span>.</sentence><sentence id="975">Now, these were huge <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">rooves</span> with huge uh...uh wooden beams; and they were behind the beams, in front of the beams.</sentence><sentence id="976">You didn't know if they were... I was in one of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="977">I was delegated to go and help out.</sentence><sentence id="978">You didn't know if they were sleeping, or if they were dead already; because they... It was cold in winter.</sentence><sentence id="979">It was hot in summer.</sentence><sentence id="980">And here they came, with their fur coats and hats; and, of course, all...the most of the work in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> was done by young Czech Jews, because we were the main occupation.</sentence><sentence id="981">So they would say, "If Hitler only knew what the Czech Jews are doing to us!"</sentence><sentence id="982">They still couldn't comprehend it, they couldn't put it together.</sentence><sentence id="983">So, of course, the survival rate there, the hygiene there, was impossible.</sentence><sentence id="984">There were no <span class="INT_SPACE">bathrooms</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="985">Uh it was uh...uh there were the uh the survival rate was very, very small.</sentence><sentence id="986">Uh, my aunts came through <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, and then they went on; and then came my aunt, with her two children, who was most closest to me.</sentence><sentence id="987">Uh, they...we were four years apart--Eva...Raymond was at that time sixteen, and Joe was twelve.</sentence><sentence id="988">And they came in in October "42.</sentence><sentence id="989">In October "42, in the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="990">And my aunt was legally blind.</sentence><sentence id="991">She was very, very near-sighted, just like my mother.</sentence><sentence id="992">And she was legally blind; and because I was a nurse, I was able to go with her in the...into the <span class="BUILDING">gathering place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="993">And they wouldn't even let them go in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="994">They kept them there, in the <span class="BUILDING">gathering place</span>, as they arrived, immediately prepared for a transport to go on.</sentence><sentence id="995">We did everything to get them out, but we couldn't.</sentence><sentence id="996">So I took Eva and Joe out of there, and took them where --I have to explain to you, describe to you where we lived.</sentence><sentence id="997">And I took them where we lived, and I put them in my <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="998">And I - this is my memory - they had boots on.</sentence><sentence id="999">The two pairs of boots under my <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, and they were on the bunk sleeping together so they would at least get some rest to go on.</sentence><sentence id="1000">And when I returned them, my aunt told me, "I know I'm not going to survive.</sentence><sentence id="1001">I know I'm not going to be back.</sentence><sentence id="1002">But I know that you will take care of the children."</sentence><sentence id="1003">I would have, had...had they survived.</sentence><sentence id="1004">When I returned, I was hoping that one of them would come back.</sentence><sentence id="1005">But, of course, they didn't.</sentence><sentence id="1006">Eva threw out of the <span class="DLF">window</span> a card on the way to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, which was addressed to [Jiri Pollack (ph)], who happened to be my school- mate.</sentence><sentence id="1007">And after the war, I met him; and he told me that he got a post card from her on the way to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> which she threw out and somebody picked up and mailed.</sentence><sentence id="1008">They were the first transport to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1009">No children and uh women survived; and of the men who survived, there were not too many.</sentence><sentence id="1010">That was uh 27th of...they arrived 27th of October in "42.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1085">Q: What else...about <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> ?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1087">A: Uh, a great deal.</sentence><sentence id="1088">Uh (pause) when we came in, we lived in a former <span class="BUILDING">brewery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1089">All the nurses who worked with the infectious diseases lived in this <span class="BUILDING">brewery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1090">So there was on the <span class="INT_SPACE">second floor</span>, there was a <span class="INT_SPACE">kitchen</span>; and behind it--as I said, I don't remember--three or four <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1091">So if you went to the last <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, you had to go through all the other <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1092">And in my <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, which was the second one - the first one was a very small one and there was three <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span>, and then in ours and there were two, four, six, eight people living in the other one.</sentence><sentence id="1093">And, of course, we went through to the other one.</sentence><sentence id="1094">And uh in these eight <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span> we were all the nurses who came in from day shift, night shift, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1095">So we knew each other.</sentence><sentence id="1096">We worked together.</sentence><sentence id="1097">And uh the life was there...at that time men could visit.</sentence><sentence id="1098">Uh, we got <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sheets</span> as a little <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">curtain</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1099">And the privacy was minimal.</sentence><sentence id="1100">Because, if you realize, when you washed your hair, you were there washing your hair from water you brought from somewhere.</sentence><sentence id="1101">And the men were coming into the <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span> that were past your <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, and seven other people were there.</sentence><sentence id="1102">It was difficult life, very difficult life.</sentence><sentence id="1103">The one advantage was that I was able to take a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span> in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> when we went off the shift.</sentence><sentence id="1104">Uh, later I worked in a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> where they had encephalitis; and that was uh also at one time there was encephalitis.</sentence><sentence id="1105">| worked with some older people.</sentence><sentence id="1106">When I worked uh I had a night shift at uh <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> where all the older people were.</sentence><sentence id="1107">I found my grandfather's sister there, who was in her eighties at the time.</sentence><sentence id="1108">I was giving out dinner, or whatever it was, and I was able to give her an extra potato.</sentence><sentence id="1109">And Aunt Antonia was so happy she got the extra potato.</sentence><sentence id="1110">Uh it was such a intensive life, because even with all this long work, and all the social things and all the personal things was going on, and all diseases around you.</sentence><sentence id="1111">One day came a message that two hundred children from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> are coming through.</sentence><sentence id="1112">They were to be deloused, washed, bathed and dressed and prepared for a trip to <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>. [</sentence><sentence id="1113">SOUND DISAPPEARS FOR APPROXIMATELY ONE MINUTE OR MORE AT THIS POINT; APPPARENT TECHNICAL PROBLEM] [And some nurses were allowed to go and be with them; and for volunteering with them, they were supposed to protect their families.</sentence><sentence id="1114">I volunteered.</sentence><sentence id="1115">I had my few things packed up, and...this was still, I was still with Rudolph].</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1116">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION 3 TAPE #2</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1117">A: So one day two hundred children were... TECHNICAL CONVERSATION</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1120">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="1121">We're back on camera.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1124">A: Uh, oh day two hundred children were sent to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> to be deloused, washed, fed uh...fed a little bit and put clothes on.</sentence><sentence id="1125">And uh we were told that uh if uh some of us nurses would volunteer uh for to go with them, we would be uh able to protect our families.</sentence><sentence id="1126">I packed up few my things, but I was told that anybody who was married cannot go.</sentence><sentence id="1127">Only single people.</sentence><sentence id="1128">I knew some of the nurses who went.</sentence><sentence id="1129">They went straight to gas.</sentence><sentence id="1130">Apparently, uh there might have been some ideas; but they were misbegotten.</sentence><sentence id="1131">And the children were transported back and forth, and annihilated.</sentence><sentence id="1132">Uh the...uh there were many kind of things that one was never certain what will be happening, and that was the worst part, that we were continuously in uncertainty.</sentence><sentence id="1133">There was a Damocles uh sword hanging over you all the time.</sentence><sentence id="1134">You never knew how much time you had for what.</sentence><sentence id="1135">Uh the daily difficulties, the daily life difficulties.</sentence><sentence id="1136">For instance, as crowded as we were, the hygiene as poor as it was, the laundry as impossible as it was.</sentence><sentence id="1137">There were bed bugs.</sentence><sentence id="1138">In summer, it was suffocatingly hot.</sentence><sentence id="1139">We lived so close together.</sentence><sentence id="1140">So sometimes people tried to sleep out in the <span class="DLF">yard</span> uh because not only that it was hot, but the bedbugs were multiplying and biting.</sentence><sentence id="1141">The fleas were multiplying and biting, which made it also much more difficult to rest.</sentence><sentence id="1142">I remember a scene where we got very little soap.</sentence><sentence id="1143">The soap, we got rationed soap.</sentence><sentence id="1144">The soap was of horrible quality.</sentence><sentence id="1145">It was like a little stone.</sentence><sentence id="1146">And I remember being in the <span class="DLF">yard</span>, and washing my laundry with this little bit of soap, and there was a little bit left over.</sentence><sentence id="1147">Every little bit of that soap was precious.</sentence><sentence id="1148">Now at one point we were issued money, and we could buy things for the money.</sentence><sentence id="1149">And one of the things you could buy was a little bit of mustard, or a little bit of ketchup, or so...another piece of this terrible soap--if they, if it was available.</sentence><sentence id="1150">Now people were getting packages from <span class="NPIP">abroad</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1151">It was wonderful.</sentence><sentence id="1152">At one point--you see, there were always periods, they were like <span class="DLF">windows</span> of permission, when you were able to get packages.</sentence><sentence id="1153">And some people were able to get packages.</sentence><sentence id="1154">The Danes were the best off; because the King and the Danish people, they were able to get a monthly five kilo--not pound, eleven pounds--five kilo package with salami, butter, cheeses, from <span class="COUNTRY">Denmark</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1155">That was the gift of the Danish government to the few, few Danish Jews in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1156">There was a number also of prominents.</sentence><sentence id="1157">These were Germans and Austrians, who during the war [NB: the First World War] got an uh...uh the Iron Cross, or any of the very high medals.</sentence><sentence id="1158">And they were protected in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1159">They were not sent on, at one <span class="NPIP">point</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1160">For some reason, that was honored.</sentence><sentence id="1161">Uh of course, during the time Edelstein, who was a Judeniltester, was a wonderful man; and he did what he could.</sentence><sentence id="1162">But he himself was deported; and we had other Judenaltester which made things worse.</sentence><sentence id="1163">But nevertheless, there was this tremendous, vibrating cultural life.</sentence><sentence id="1164">I remember seeing Fledermaus, a whole production of Fledermaus.*</sentence><sentence id="1165">3 Viennese operetta by Johann Strauss.</sentence><sentence id="1166">4 Uh, I remember going to a poem reading.</sentence><sentence id="1167">There were philosophical debate.</sentence><sentence id="1168">There were concerts.</sentence><sentence id="1169">Uh there was this need to live very intensively.</sentence><sentence id="1170">And I think this was about the essence of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1171">You had these few years, so you have to live them so intensively.</sentence><sentence id="1172">You have to use every minute you had.</sentence><sentence id="1173">During that time I also had pneumonia at one point.</sentence><sentence id="1174">I had uh middle ear infection, where they had to trepanate my ear drum; and you know with all the things we have, I was sitting in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">chair</span> like this, and they punctured my ear drum.</sentence><sentence id="1175">And uh, you know, few things of that sort one had to endure.</sentence><sentence id="1176">And you either got well or you didn't get well, though there were not many choices.</sentence><sentence id="1177">Uh I remember in the <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> be...ahead of ours was Sister Miriam.</sentence><sentence id="1178">Sister Miriam was a nun from <span class="COUNTRY">Austria</span>, of a Jewish background, but was converted to Christianity; and was a Catholic nun for about thirty years.</sentence><sentence id="1179">She was in her fifties when she came.</sentence><sentence id="1180">A kind, gentle soul.</sentence><sentence id="1181">Now, of course, as a nun, she was shaved and wore a wig when she went into the public.</sentence><sentence id="1182">And of course, all of a sudden she had to show herself without hair.</sentence><sentence id="1183">But she worked as a nurse.</sentence><sentence id="1184">She eventually died of cancer in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1185">But for her, it was an absolute--not only a cultural shock--shocking... It was a destroying of her life in any direction in which she had.</sentence><sentence id="1186">Nevertheless, she showed a great gentleness and great kindness towards everybody, in spite of everything.</sentence><sentence id="1187">Uh for instance, if you, they had a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">laundry</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1188">You were allowed to go there so many days, for so often, and bring in your laundry; and about two weeks later you got it back.</sentence><sentence id="1189">So with few <span class="NPIP">things</span> it was very difficult.</sentence><sentence id="1190">There was also a shoe repair, where you could get some shoes repaired because we could not replace anything, but everything was a difficulty.</sentence><sentence id="1191">When they were opened, when you had your work hours, when you got it back.</sentence><sentence id="1192">Everything was difficult.</sentence><sentence id="1193">And then you have the sight of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> was the hearses.</sentence><sentence id="1194">Because the hearses were brought from all over, from all over Czecho...not all over <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, all over <span class="COUNTRY">Bohemia</span>, from the Jewish uh cultural groups that brought to the <span class="DLF">cemetery</span> in their own hearses.</sentence><sentence id="1195">So the hearses were brought in; and not only the sick people, but the bread was transported, and wood was transported, and everything was transported on the hearses.</sentence><sentence id="1196">Because these were the only <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1197">Uh then there was uh the comedy--organized and directed by Germans-- where one day we were supposed to get the visit by the Red Cross.</sentence><sentence id="1198">The <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> were painted only <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, where the inspection was going to take place.</sentence><sentence id="1199">We got better food for a week.</sentence><sentence id="1200">The children were told if they... somebody comes to interview of them... Seidl was the SS man there, that they had.</sentence><sentence id="1201">And they were supposed to say...they were supposed to get a box of sardines and say, "Uncle Seidl, Uncle Seidl!</sentence><sentence id="1202">Sardinen schon wieder!" [</sentence><sentence id="1203">Ger: "Uncle Seidl, Uncle Seidl!</sentence><sentence id="1204">Sardines again!"]</sentence><sentence id="1205">That became the joke.</sentence><sentence id="1206">Uncle "Seidl."</sentence><sentence id="1207">Calling him "Uncle Seidl." "</sentence><sentence id="1208">Schon wieder"--"Again we are getting sardines!"</sentence><sentence id="1209">Of course, we never ate or saw sardines.</sentence><sentence id="1210">But here they was giving them, and showing: "We are getting it again!"</sentence><sentence id="1211">You know.</sentence><sentence id="1212">It became such a joke.</sentence><sentence id="1213">We did get the <span class="BUILDING">coffee house</span> at the end, where this concert, where you could see.</sentence><sentence id="1214">Uh we used to call about the coffee, what you, how you make the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coffees</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1215">You take one coffee bean, put it on a string and wave it over hot water.</sentence><sentence id="1216">Uh the miracle was that the water was somehow blackish.</sentence><sentence id="1217">It was chicory mainly.</sentence><sentence id="1218">And uh it was warm.</sentence><sentence id="1219">Uh then there was the counting of the people.</sentence><sentence id="1220">One day there was counting of the people where all people had to go to this big meadow and there was this counting that was documented in films, etc.</sentence><sentence id="1221">Uh we were, we were in the with the children in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, so we didn't have to go; so we spent that lovely day in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1222">But only taking of the 5 children, but it was so terrible because we didn't know what was happening with everybody.</sentence><sentence id="1223">We didn't know what was going on.</sentence><sentence id="1224">We didn't know what was going to happen to them.</sentence><sentence id="1225">We didn't know what was going to happen.</sentence><sentence id="1226">It was, I remember that day was so full of tension and misery because what were we supposed...what's going to happen.</sentence><sentence id="1227">We didn't know.</sentence><sentence id="1228">It was a terrible day, and then another kind of drudgery.</sentence><sentence id="1229">A woman from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> came, with a retarded child.</sentence><sentence id="1230">This is, today we would say, the most profound retarded child I have ever seen.</sentence><sentence id="1231">Was seven years old, couldn't sit, couldn't talk.</sentence><sentence id="1232">Anything.</sentence><sentence id="1233">And nevertheless, this woman tended this child so tenderly through seven years of... He was like a newborn child, except this big; seven years old.</sentence><sentence id="1234">And you looked around, and you kept thinking of the human tragedy of this woman under these circumstances, was tending this child so tenderly.</sentence><sentence id="1235">And you knew what's going to be in for her.</sentence><sentence id="1236">Uh, in uh one of the other <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> was uh a little section for insane, where they were one day loaded and went in those transport, of course.</sentence><sentence id="1237">I'm trying to... You know, there are so many stories that keep, you know, dropping out.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1353">Q: Did you have any contact with Leo Baeck?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1355">A: Leo Baeck?</sentence><sentence id="1356">No, no.</sentence><sentence id="1357">Uh, you know, as as I come all these different memories um pick up...(pause) of the various <span class="BUILDING">hospitals</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1358">Uh I was working for one time only... Of course, another thing--there were abortions.</sentence><sentence id="1359">Uh Doctor Hahn, who was a gynecologist in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Brno</span>, came.</sentence><sentence id="1360">And he was making abortions, because if women get pregnant they knew what it meant.</sentence><sentence id="1361">Uh, so abortions were performed.</sentence><sentence id="1362">Nobody talked about it; but abortions were performed, because they had to be performed.</sentence><sentence id="1363">They were done by the gynecologist as kindly as could be.</sentence><sentence id="1364">And that wasn't...that was a sheer necessity to do.</sentence><sentence id="1365">And uh it...it was a survival.</sentence><sentence id="1366">See, I'm...I'm trying... You know, there are so many aspects to look at; and I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> from "42 until "44, for two and a half years.</sentence><sentence id="1367">So there are a lot of stories, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1368">How to replenish the few things how you you brought with you?</sentence><sentence id="1369">At one <span class="NPIP">point</span> I was able to make contact; and I sold my... First, I sold a few of the...used up money I had on <span class="BUILDING">black market</span> to buy extra food.</sentence><sentence id="1370">The extra food was smuggled in by the Czech gendarmes.</sentence><sentence id="1371">Uh so we bought some, as much as we could.</sentence><sentence id="1372">And uh finally...we were allowed to keep a wedding ring, so I sold the wedding ring--exchanged it for bread.</sentence><sentence id="1373">I thought the bread was more important.</sentence><sentence id="1374">Again through the gendarmes.</sentence><sentence id="1375">Uh Misha's mother, Irma Lausher, my cousin who had...who was teaching the children in the <span class="BUILDING">youth home</span>, she was uh...she has an incredible memory.</sentence><sentence id="1376">And she wrote me books of poems for my birthday.</sentence><sentence id="1377">And even under these circumstances we tried to celebrate birthdays.</sentence><sentence id="1378">You know, a slice of bread, a small loaf of bread was a wonderful birthday present.</sentence><sentence id="1379">Somebody saved it up, or had the connections.</sentence><sentence id="1380">Uh the the tendency was to try to uh maintain as normal life as possible.</sentence><sentence id="1381">Misha's father had the access to go little bit uh where there was a little bit of grass; and he planted some tomatoes, so that Misha would have some fresh food.</sentence><sentence id="1382">And tended it tenderly.</sentence><sentence id="1383">The inventiveness of people under the circumstances was incredible.</sentence><sentence id="1384">There was a group of women who worked in agriculture, so who were sometimes able to smuggle something in.</sentence><sentence id="1385">It was not for us they worked on the agriculture.</sentence><sentence id="1386">Oh, another interesting thing was--as I say, these stories keep popping in my mind--uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lidice</span> was the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czech village</span> where as uh 6 revenge for the Heydrich affair, the Germans went and killed the men and many of the women and some of the children; and the left-overs they sent to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ravensbriick</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1387">I knew some of them.</sentence><sentence id="1388">And there was this cleaning up to do, and there were sheep and goats and cows.</sentence><sentence id="1389">So some of men from Aus...from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> were commandeered to go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lidice</span> to clean it up and bring in the animals.</sentence><sentence id="1390">That was not known, you know; but the guys from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> did the cleaning up.</sentence><sentence id="1391">Uh they were, once another group of men were sent to another uh transport in some <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> to do some very hard work.</sentence><sentence id="1392">I don't remember where it was.</sentence><sentence id="1393">And the one man wanted to get out of it.</sentence><sentence id="1394">And he thought that would help him; and he...he drank, I don't know if it was turpentine or gasoline, or he drank some substance that's completely ruined his lower intestines.</sentence><sentence id="1395">And he was...he uh defecated himself to death when he, they returned him to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1396">He defecated himself to death actually trying to escape this way.</sentence><sentence id="1397">Uh but it was through all of this pressure, there was this constantly...Transports are going.</sentence><sentence id="1398">Are you going to be on the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1399">Are you going to be saved from the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1400">Who can you stay?</sentence><sentence id="1401">Who is going to go?</sentence><sentence id="1402">And, of course, the pressure on the people who made the lists were as well.</sentence><sentence id="1403">Are you going to save your family?Who is going?</sentence><sentence id="1404">Uh, my father's cousin came through who I was very fond of.</sentence><sentence id="1405">I knew he was going.</sentence><sentence id="1406">So you know, how do you - as a very young woman - how do you try to keep any kind of normalcy under these circumstances?</sentence><sentence id="1407">Very diff... with very great difficulty.</sentence><sentence id="1408">And somehow still stay uh a human being, feeling human being.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1466">Q: You mentioned abortions.</sentence><sentence id="1467">Did you assist him in any of these?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1470">A: Yeah, I saw a couple of them.</sentence><sentence id="1471">I didn't assist but I uh... I don't know if I assisted actually.</sentence><sentence id="1472">I was there uh when uh when uh Hahn performed it, a couple of them in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Hamburg Kaserne</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1473">Yeah, I saw them; but I don't know how much J assisted in it actually, at the time because I was total novice.</sentence><sentence id="1474">He would have told me, "Give me this, uh that."</sentence><sentence id="1475">I didn't, you had to take the dilator from the smallest to the biggest and then you have to stretch out.</sentence><sentence id="1476">But I remember being there, and seeing it done.</sentence><sentence id="1477">You know, they were very skillful doctors; very skillful doctors who did, under impossible situations, really wonders.</sentence><sentence id="1478">And who tried to be very humane.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1488">Q: Is anything else you want to add about <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> ?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1490">A: Yeah, you know, the irony... Hans Schauffer (ph) was the doctor who was the head doctor in the <span class="BUILDING">children's hospital</span>, where Bruno was.</sentence><sentence id="1491">He was uh uh he was, he had a...he was deathly afraid of typhus.</sentence><sentence id="1492">Not typhoid.</sentence><sentence id="1493">He worked with typhoid all the time.</sentence><sentence id="1494">Typhus.</sentence><sentence id="1495">Typhus...the difference is typhoid is abdominal typhoid, which is different.</sentence><sentence id="1496">Typhus is transferred from person to person with the lice.</sentence><sentence id="1497">You have to have lice to get typhus.</sentence><sentence id="1498">He died with typhus later in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1508">Q: I understand.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1510">A: He had like a premonition.</sentence><sentence id="1511">He was always afraid he will die with typhus, and he did.</sentence><sentence id="1512">He too 7 went through a divorce and another marriage in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1513">I knew all about the intrigues from him, from his wife, and all of that.</sentence><sentence id="1514">There was, you know... It was so intense every day. (</sentence><sentence id="1515">Pause) Uh in September of "44, there were <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transports</span> going and they were saying they are going to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">labor camps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1516">They need labor in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1517">You know, the front was moving.</sentence><sentence id="1518">They need labor.</sentence><sentence id="1519">And they were equipping the groups with uh shovels, with spades.</sentence><sentence id="1520">That sounds like that labor, you know?</sentence><sentence id="1521">They had also shovels, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1522">And uh so there were five transports of men.</sentence><sentence id="1523">In the last <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>, they allowed five hundred women.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1524">So I volunteered to go along.</sentence><sentence id="1525">Well, of course, you would volunteer.</sentence><sentence id="1526">What else was to do?</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1527">So we packed our things; and miraculously we were in uh...not in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cattle wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1528">We were in a regular <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1529">And we were sitting on top of our <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">luggages</span>, crowded, everything.</sentence><sentence id="1530">And we arrived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, it must have been early afternoon.</sentence><sentence id="1531">Because you know it's not so far in mileage; so if we traveled all through the night and half of the morning, we would have been there.</sentence><sentence id="1532">When we arrived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, we got out of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and we were told, "Don't touch anything.</sentence><sentence id="1533">Leave everything as is.</sentence><sentence id="1534">Don't touch everything.</sentence><sentence id="1535">Leave as it is."</sentence><sentence id="1536">But we still carried some things.</sentence><sentence id="1537">I came from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span> in ski pants and good boots and a winter coat.</sentence><sentence id="1538">Because, which was fortunate, I had it through all these bad winters.</sentence><sentence id="1539">And this is how I came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>--with a beaver collar.</sentence><sentence id="1540">And this is how I came.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1541">Again I kept it, you know, for the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1542">And I was still not...you know, I was still pretty strong and everything--still more husky, because I'm big-boned looking.</sentence><sentence id="1543">We were supposed to stand outside of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, always to five.</sentence><sentence id="1544">Always to five, because Germans can count easier that way.</sentence><sentence id="1545">So uh women here and men there, as we got off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1546">We are standing there; and uh there's a young man in camouflage uniform, a soldier.</sentence><sentence id="1547">And all around were...us were <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> with wires.</sentence><sentence id="1548">And out of one of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, runs a woman.</sentence><sentence id="1549">And she yells- -I don't remember if it was German, Polish or Yiddish, either one of the languages--and she was yelling at us, "They will take away from you everything!</sentence><sentence id="1550">What you have, throw it to me!"</sentence><sentence id="1551">And one of the girls had a knapsack, and she took it and she threw it to her over the <span class="DLF">fence</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1552">Now, you have to see this scene.</sentence><sentence id="1553">I have it so much in my memory.</sentence><sentence id="1554">That this young guy was talking to us, and I see this woman running and she's like this to catch it.</sentence><sentence id="1555">And in that moment, he took his gun and go "psht" and shoot her.</sentence><sentence id="1556">That was our welcome.</sentence><sentence id="1557">This young man, who friendly chatted with us in German, he just takes out his gun and goes "psht."</sentence><sentence id="1558">So that's...that was our welcome.</sentence><sentence id="1559">So we are standing to five, and I was in one of the first <span class="DLF">rows</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1560">And in front of it comes the man in SS uniform, and in a white glove.</sentence><sentence id="1561">And this was Mengele.</sentence><sentence id="1562">Of course, I didn't know at the time it was Mengele.</sentence><sentence id="1563">But I knew there was something very ominous about him, because he was standing there like with his gloves and going like this.</sentence><sentence id="1564">And as we came by, every person, and that's all what he did.</sentence><sentence id="1565">With his finger, right and left.</sentence><sentence id="1566">The men went first.</sentence><sentence id="1567">And as my...as Bruno went by... Oh, excuse me--well, I'll tell you later.</sentence><sentence id="1568">As Bruno went by, he was yelling at me, "I'm not going to see you again!</sentence><sentence id="1569">I'm not going to see you again!"</sentence><sentence id="1570">And I didn't want him to say that.</sentence><sentence id="1571">I didn't want him to say that; but that what he was saying: "I'm not going to see you again!"</sentence><sentence id="1572">And as they went by, Mengele shoved like on this <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1573">And when the men was gone, we was started to go.</sentence><sentence id="1574">And when we came here, he shoved me on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1575">So I step up, and I said to him...uh in German I said to him, "My...my...my husband went on this <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1576">I want to go this, too."</sentence><sentence id="1577">And he said, "March on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>!"</sentence><sentence id="1578">And here were soldiers with guns around us.</sentence><sentence id="1579">I just saw 8 this one shoved, so I went to the left.</sentence><sentence id="1580">This was to gas, and this was to work.</sentence><sentence id="1581">How did you know?</sentence><sentence id="1582">Fate.</sentence><sentence id="1583">Total fate.</sentence><sentence id="1584">You know, then we were so naive, we were so incredibly naive--of course, depended (ph)--that when we got off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, we saw the SS men or other older prisoners taking the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriages</span> and the children off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and putting them beside.</sentence><sentence id="1585">We said, "Well, if they are not so bad.</sentence><sentence id="1586">You see, they are helping."</sentence><sentence id="1587">My foot!</sentence><sentence id="1588">They were, of course, put to death.</sentence><sentence id="1589">Uh, so that was our welcome.</sentence><sentence id="1590">So that now by this time was getting dark.</sentence><sentence id="1591">Now, remember this is end of October--no, end of September--in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1592">So they marched us first where we had to undress.</sentence><sentence id="1593">Now I had a can of oil and a can of sardines in my pockets.</sentence><sentence id="1594">And I had a good Swiss watch still.</sentence><sentence id="1595">I...there were women from the...you know, prisoner's women, but who already had short hair.</sentence><sentence id="1596">And we had to undress.</sentence><sentence id="1597">I thought I will be very smart.</sentence><sentence id="1598">I go to one of them and I say, "Look, I put in the corner my watch and the can of sardines and the oil.</sentence><sentence id="1599">Keep it for me when I come through."</sentence><sentence id="1600">Of course.</sentence><sentence id="1601">And I thought I would be smart, and I asked her, "What is your name?"</sentence><sentence id="1602">And she said, "Hannah Miiller."</sentence><sentence id="1603">That was my maiden name.</sentence><sentence id="1604">Of course, I never saw her, I never saw anything else.</sentence><sentence id="1605">We were allowed...we were supposed to strip completely, except keep shoes.</sentence><sentence id="1606">So I had my...still my good shoes.</sentence><sentence id="1607">Uh, we come to the next <span class="BUILDING">building</span> where there was a <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1608">There was a <span class="INT_SPACE">shower shower</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1609">That means it was cold shower.</sentence><sentence id="1610">We didn't have anything, but we had the cold shower.</sentence><sentence id="1611">And we were supposed to put the shoes around the <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1612">I go for my shoes, and my shoes are gone.</sentence><sentence id="1613">This is the first time I to...started to cry.</sentence><sentence id="1614">The shoes were the last thing I already had.</sentence><sentence id="1615">I skipped one step.</sentence><sentence id="1616">As we came and we undressed, we had to go through a <span class="INT_SPACE">hallway</span>, naked except in the shoes.</sentence><sentence id="1617">And SS came by and looked at our breasts and looked at our bellies.</sentence><sentence id="1618">If none of us...if some of us might be pregnant.</sentence><sentence id="1619">If they saw anybody pregnant, they pulled them out.</sentence><sentence id="1620">So you know, it was...so we were standing there naked; and they came and they looked at our breasts and our bellies.</sentence><sentence id="1621">Then we went to a <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> where they shaved us.</sentence><sentence id="1622">And I remember seeing sitting there one of the people I knew with long hair and at that point half of her hair was shaven and half was still long.</sentence><sentence id="1623">And I looked at her.</sentence><sentence id="1624">And I had few bobbie pins, and I kept the bobbie pins.</sentence><sentence id="1625">I thought when my hair grow I will have the bobbie pins.</sentence><sentence id="1626">And of course, when you all of a sudden see you bald-headed, completely shaven, you look like monkeys.</sentence><sentence id="1627">Everybody looks like a monkey.</sentence><sentence id="1628">And not only that, with one blade, hundreds people.</sentence><sentence id="1629">And then, with that German thoroughness, they also shaved our pubic hair--about a hundred people with one blade, pubic hair.</sentence><sentence id="1630">Uh, no cleanliness otherwise, but they shaved the pubic hair.</sentence><sentence id="1631">And uh from there... So this was the bobbie pin I'm still holding, and we go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>, and my shoes are gone.</sentence><sentence id="1632">We go into the next <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, and uh there we were given some old rags.</sentence><sentence id="1633">I was given an old summer dress, some pants and something.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1634">Now, this is cold weather.</sentence><sentence id="1635">And we...and we were given wooden shoes.</sentence><sentence id="1636">The wooden shoes were killers, absolute killers.</sentence><sentence id="1637">In the mud of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>--uh, no socks in the cold--the wooden shoes were rubbing your feet.</sentence><sentence id="1638">Also, they were sticking in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mud</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1639">You couldn't pull them out.</sentence><sentence id="1640">And when you had a sore on your feet, it would never heal.</sentence><sentence id="1641">The shoes were killers.</sentence><sentence id="1642">Uh so we were marched into the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, and we saw the fire from the <span class="DLF">chimneys</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1643">We...we wouldn't believe what it is.</sentence><sentence id="1644">For three days...I didn't eat for three days.</sentence><sentence id="1645">I was in a state of shock.</sentence><sentence id="1646">You didn't eat, because they were telling us this is from... How could you believe that a fire was from burning our families?</sentence><sentence id="1647">I mean, it was incomprehensible.</sentence><sentence id="1648">How could you believe what was happening?</sentence><sentence id="1649">And then you were given one big pot; and this is 9 like the last bit of humanity was taken away.</sentence><sentence id="1650">Because in the pot they gave five scoops of soup, and the pot was circulated among people.</sentence><sentence id="1651">And everybody slurped like an animal.</sentence><sentence id="1652">You were being...being made to an animal by slurping the food.</sentence><sentence id="1653">So at one point, I saw somebody dragging a bag... bag of spoons, and one was hanging out.</sentence><sentence id="1654">So I pulled it out; so I was already more civilized.</sentence><sentence id="1655">I had a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">spoon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1656">I kept the spoon throughout.</sentence><sentence id="1657">I gave it to the <span class="BUILDING">Museum</span>, because anybody would say it's an old scarred spoon.</sentence><sentence id="1658">But it's a special <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">spoon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1659">But it...it was part of becoming less than a human when you have to slurp like a dog.</sentence><sentence id="1660">And in the beginning, we just couldn't eat.</sentence><sentence id="1661">Uh...uh of course we slept five to a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span>, and we didn't have any any blankets and it was cold.</sentence><sentence id="1662">We were warming each other.</sentence><sentence id="1663">We were five friends who were staying together.</sentence><sentence id="1664">But the dehumanization, when you went to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">toilet</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1665">Of course, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">toilet</span>: there were <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">benches</span> with holes in them.</sentence><sentence id="1666">And you didn't want to even sit down; and if you didn't want to sit down, all of a sudden somebody came and pulled you down.</sentence><sentence id="1667">Because the women who were in charge of those <span class="DLF">holes</span> wanted them clean.</sentence><sentence id="1668">So they just pulled you down very gently.</sentence><sentence id="1669">Uh, periodically there was another cleanliness.</sentence><sentence id="1670">I mean, this cleanliness business!</sentence><sentence id="1671">You couldn't wash.</sentence><sentence id="1672">You couldn't clean.</sentence><sentence id="1673">But you had to wash the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> everyday in the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1674">Uh, we had to go through <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1675">Among us was one girl who had very heavy beard, and who was shaving.</sentence><sentence id="1676">We never knew she had.</sentence><sentence id="1677">Of course, she couldn't shave.</sentence><sentence id="1678">We didn't have anything.</sentence><sentence id="1679">We were just as we were born.</sentence><sentence id="1680">And as we were standing there naked waiting for the <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>... These were these <span class="INT_SPACE">portable showers</span>, you know--again cold, no soap, no towel, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1681">We came there.</sentence><sentence id="1682">These young soldiers, SS men, came and looked at us and said...one came to her very kindly and said, "One of us has to shave."</sentence><sentence id="1683">Kindly.</sentence><sentence id="1684">So we were taken, the laundry we had on, on that was poured disinfectant; and when we came out of the <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>, we got somebody else's rags.</sentence><sentence id="1685">If I may, so...at that time, this was the last time I had... was menstruating for many months; uh because, you know, we lost menstruation.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1686">And I very carefully washed out the pants, very carefully; but, of course, I couldn't hang them.</sentence><sentence id="1687">I couldn't do anything with them, because they would be stolen immediately.</sentence><sentence id="1688">So I carefully folded them and held them under my arm.</sentence><sentence id="1689">Between my arms they would dry a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="1690">And then I would fold them the other way and hold them for my...under my arm for about three days, hoping they would be clean and would be dry because my body warmth would dry them.</sentence><sentence id="1691">Finally, I was able to wear them only to lose them and get somebody else's dirty pants.</sentence><sentence id="1692">These were the kind of dehumanizing things, all the time.</sentence><sentence id="1693">To be shaved again, uh with all the people walking around.</sentence><sentence id="1694">And, of course, in between we heard shooting; because there were what they used to call "selection."</sentence><sentence id="1695">The older people were selected and they were running around or shooting around while we were in the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1696">It was terrible.</sentence><sentence id="1697">I happened to run, in our <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>, into two women who I knew from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> before the war.</sentence><sentence id="1698">One went to the same <span class="BUILDING">school</span> I did.</sentence><sentence id="1699">Was a... She came to the religious classes from another <span class="BUILDING">school</span>. [</sentence><sentence id="1700">Hanka Narastrukova (ph)]--she is now a physician, lives in <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1701">And Jera (ph), with whom I went to <span class="BUILDING">gym</span>...<span class="BUILDING">gymnastics</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1702">Uh, she is in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> now.</sentence><sentence id="1703">She lived in <span class="COUNTRY">Australia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1704">I was in touch in with them.</sentence><sentence id="1705">They were in the Litzmannstadt [NB: _6d_] ghetto.</sentence><sentence id="1706">They came to us, and they happened to be in the same <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1707">Uh it was awful there.</sentence><sentence id="1708">It happens...it so happened that uh a woman in charge of our huge <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> was from <span class="COUNTRY">Slovakia</span>, and she learned that the...the man who is going to come and look for labor is a pretty good one.</sentence><sentence id="1709">At that point, labor was needed; so various uh 0 factory supervisors or directors used to come to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> to select labor.</sentence><sentence id="1710">And we were told that this man had a pretty good set-up, so that...so they directed him to our <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1711">And they took two hundred women--hundred twenty Slovaks and eighty Czechs.</sentence><sentence id="1712">And L...we...we were the five friends together; and he took four of us.</sentence><sentence id="1713">And one of the oldest he rejected, but she survived.</sentence><sentence id="1714">Uh she was related to Bruno, an aunt of Bruno.</sentence><sentence id="1715">And so we four were supposed to go.</sentence><sentence id="1716">So they took us from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span> where we were--we were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">familienlager</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1717">We were in the Gypsy lager in the Birken...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>; and they...in...in uh...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> not but in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau section</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1718">And they took us into another transit lager.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1719">There, we had another experience.</sentence><sentence id="1720">We were about a week there.</sentence><sentence id="1721">There were the Ukrainians.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1722">They had long hair.</sentence><sentence id="1723">They had better dress.</sentence><sentence id="1724">We had, instead of <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">toilet</span>, there were two uh buckets.</sentence><sentence id="1725">And we stood in <span class="DLF">line</span> to use the buckets; and, of course, a lot of people had diarrhea.</sentence><sentence id="1726">But in when a Ukrainian came, she pushed us away and she went immediately; never mind the <span class="DLF">line</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1727">The leader of that <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> was a Ukrainian.</sentence><sentence id="1728">The Germans had a stack, this high stack of blankets.</sentence><sentence id="1729">But she wouldn't allow us to have them.</sentence><sentence id="1730">By this time, it's October.</sentence><sentence id="1731">The Ukrainians wouldn't allow us to have the blankets the Germans gave us.</sentence><sentence id="1732">Uh, there was a black triangle antisocial woman--prisoner, but in some sort of a uniform; and there were rats.</sentence><sentence id="1733">And she was shooting the rats in front of us.</sentence><sentence id="1734">Fun!</sentence><sentence id="1735">Uh another thing happened.</sentence><sentence id="1736">While we were in this <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, one of the lower leaders--there were, you know, hierarchy of leaders--one of the lower leaders, was a woman, her first name is Jana (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1737">I don't remember her other name.</sentence><sentence id="1738">And she came from the <span class="COUNTRY">Ruthenia</span>, the easternmost part of <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1739">And she lived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span> and had a boyfriend there; but she was taken, and she was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> for long, long time when they had to go and work and the dogs were barking at their feet and all of that.</sentence><sentence id="1740">And she survived.</sentence><sentence id="1741">And she was telling us about it one evening.</sentence><sentence id="1742">We were just listening to it, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1743">It was pretty awful.</sentence><sentence id="1744">After, the day after the liberation--we happened to be liberated in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span>--I walk on the <span class="DLF">street</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1745">And, of course, everybody knew we were prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="1746">We had no hair.</sentence><sentence id="1747">And a man comes to me and says, "I know you just came back, I know it's a... But did you happen to run into Jana?"</sentence><sentence id="1748">And I told him, "Your name is so and so."</sentence><sentence id="1749">I remembered him--the name, she gave it to us in October.</sentence><sentence id="1750">I just remembered it in May, and I told him.</sentence><sentence id="1751">It was him.</sentence><sentence id="1752">And I told him and we saw in October she survived; and she did survive, and she returned, and they married.</sentence><sentence id="1753">I mean, I just happened to remember that.</sentence><sentence id="1754">Uh, so then they took us and they gave each of us a piece of bread and something else, and we were loaded on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1755">These were the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cattle trains</span> now.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1756">We just saw a little thing, and we were supposed to go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1757">They did give us some better clothes.</sentence><sentence id="1758">Well, they gave us some sort of a winter coat.</sentence><sentence id="1759">I had some big black winter coat.</sentence><sentence id="1760">Not a heavy winter coat, but some sort of a coat; and a sweater and a skirt.</sentence><sentence id="1761">And we...we were going on.</sentence><sentence id="1762">I took a piece of the lining and out of that I made a scarf, because if you have no hair it's very cold.</sentence><sentence id="1763">So I made a scarf out of that lining.</sentence><sentence id="1764">Uh <span class="NPIP">somewhere</span> I saw a big uh bag.</sentence><sentence id="1765">It was like uh being carried still in a...in a... When we were in... in uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>, and a sock was hanging out.</sentence><sentence id="1766">And I ran and got out the sock; and I don't know, maybe just one sock.</sentence><sentence id="1767">And we had to stand in five for hours in appell [Ger: "roll call"], it was so cold.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1768">So we always, the five of us, we'll use one of the socks; and the one who has the sock would stand in front, because she is getting the coldest and she is sort of uh protecting the others.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1769">So I had that one sock.</sentence><sentence id="1770">So later I cut it in half, and made two gloves out of it.</sentence><sentence id="1771">You know, 1 just sewed it together and made two gloves out of it; "cause otherwise we had to do only this, put it an inch.... Uh we had uh... So we got on this <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, and we watched the <span class="BUILDING">stations</span>, and then we stopped; and so we knew that there were also men on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> going westward, you know, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1772">It was not only women, [or] only men.</sentence><sentence id="1773">Uh...oh, I know, I had a striped skirt and a sweater.</sentence><sentence id="1774">That's what it was.</sentence><sentence id="1775">And the men were in striped outfits, and...but they got hats.</sentence><sentence id="1776">They didn't give us caps.</sentence><sentence id="1777">And uh then we stopped for long, long time.</sentence><sentence id="1778">God, we were going for like 36, 48 hours.</sentence><sentence id="1779">And all of a sudden, we start looking out after we are standing, and to our absolute horror we realize we are going back again.</sentence><sentence id="1780">Now, we knew if we were going back, it's going back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1781">And we knew what it meant.</sentence><sentence id="1782">But then they realized they...they uncoupled some <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>; they didn't...and they moved us again, and we went back again in this direction.</sentence><sentence id="1783">East, we went westward.</sentence><sentence id="1784">Well, we arrived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kudowa- Sackisch</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1785"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kudowa-Sackisch</span>.*</sentence><sentence id="1786">When we came there they told us, "This is a <span class="BUILDING">spa</span>, but not for you."</sentence><sentence id="1787">And we walked to these <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1788">The <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, wooden <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> were there.</sentence><sentence id="1789">Uh we were a group of two hundred women.</sentence><sentence id="1790">There were already three hundred women there, mostly Poles and Hungarians.</sentence><sentence id="1791">And uh the Lagerilteste, the German Lagerialteste, first was a Sudet [NB: from Sudetenland] woman who was miserable.</sentence><sentence id="1792">And she had an unterscharftihrer [Ger: a corporal], which [is] a non-com official.</sentence><sentence id="1793">And she had...when she angry with somebody, he had to beat the women.</sentence><sentence id="1794">But when, after...shortly she didn't allow people to peel the potatoes for our soup.</sentence><sentence id="1795">They had to be thrown in as it was.</sentence><sentence id="1796">But she was removed, and we got an older woman who had a great advantage.</sentence><sentence id="1797">She was in many ways much kinder.</sentence><sentence id="1798">She allowed the potatoes to be eaten.</sentence><sentence id="1799">And when an SS came for uh inspection, she always slept with them and they left us in peace.</sentence><sentence id="1800">So that was a great advantage.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1801">Actually, she wasn't that bad; but she was hung after the war.</sentence><sentence id="1802">I know she was hung after the war.</sentence><sentence id="1803">Uh, we...we were...we were twenty women, all from...we knew each other from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, together in this one <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>--double uh <span class="INT_SPACE">deck</span>, you know, double deck <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1804">And uh that was from October "44 until May [1945], until liberation.</sentence><sentence id="1805">We walked into the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1806">There used to be big <span class="BUILDING">textile factories</span> in that <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1807">And they were changed into <span class="BUILDING">ammunition factories</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1808">Uh we particularly were making the part of <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">airplanes</span> in which the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">propeller</span> sits.</sentence><sentence id="1809">And next <span class="DLF">door</span> was another <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> where Russian prisoners uh were working on the propellers.</sentence><sentence id="1810">It was a uh...a tower of Babel.</sentence><sentence id="1811">There were all groups in this <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1812">There were German soldiers who went AWOL and were like prisoners under guard.</sentence><sentence id="1813">They were the one who moved around heavy machinery.</sentence><sentence id="1814">There were French.</sentence><sentence id="1815">There were Italians.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1816">There were Danish.</sentence><sentence id="1817">There were Dutch.</sentence><sentence id="1818">Uh of course, there were the Poles.</sentence><sentence id="1819">And I started working on a big <span class="NPIP">turning place</span> [NB: a <span class="BUILDING">lathe</span>].</sentence><sentence id="1820">I was taught by an Italian by the name Antonio Pezutto (ph), and he taught me how to do it.</sentence><sentence id="1821">Now, normally, I don't know if you turning <span class="NPIP">places</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1822">But when you work on a <span class="NPIP">turning place</span>, there's a very sharp knife that goes to the metal and cuts, the metal cuts what it needs to be cut.</sentence><sentence id="1823">But they didn't have enough material, so they put only the edge in the metal that was wedged in, which was very inferior to the __.</sentence><sentence id="1824">So of course, we were breaking them and they were very angry with us.</sentence><sentence id="1825">Uh they...first they took us to a <span class="BUILDING">classroom</span> and taught us how to use a micrometer.</sentence><sentence id="1826">I knew how to use a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">micrometer</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1827">But we had to do that.</sentence><sentence id="1828">And they wanted to know if we know uh uh 4 Subcamp of Gross Rosen.</sentence><sentence id="1829">Located in <span class="REGION">Lower Silesia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1830">2 fractions, and things like that.</sentence><sentence id="1831">Uh the man who taught us was a German meister--you know, a foreman--and uh we were in we were like in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">school benches</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1832">And I--you know, we were curious.</sentence><sentence id="1833">I looked at the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">school bench</span>, and in one of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">school benches</span> I found a core of an apple.</sentence><sentence id="1834">Somebody ate an apple and left the core.</sentence><sentence id="1835">I didn't care who ate the apple.</sentence><sentence id="1836">I ate the core.</sentence><sentence id="1837">mean, my goodness!</sentence><sentence id="1838">That was fruit!</sentence><sentence id="1839">Uh one day--we were there only a few days--but one day the master said the five of us, "Look, if you would like to take a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span>, I will let you take a <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>."</sentence><sentence id="1840">Now, that was very dangerous for him to do that.</sentence><sentence id="1841">And he took five of us and he took us to the <span class="INT_SPACE">shower room</span> and let us <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1842">Now, mind you, we didn't have a towel.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1843">We didn't have a soap.</sentence><sentence id="1844">We had to put the clothes on we had.</sentence><sentence id="1845">But just to be under water, and to be able to shower was such a relief.</sentence><sentence id="1846">So we went there.</sentence><sentence id="1847">It took years and years before I finally allowed myself to remember why he did it.</sentence><sentence id="1848">He stood in the comer and watched five young women naked taking a <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1849">He got his jollies; but, you know, it took me years to allow myself to remember why he did it, because it was very dangerous for him.</sentence><sentence id="1850">Uh the Antonio Pezutto (ph), he sometimes brought me a piece of bread.</sentence><sentence id="1851">He was one of the Italians who fought in <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> with Badoglio, who turned against German.</sentence><sentence id="1852">And they came in as prisoners, but they were better off.</sentence><sentence id="1853">They could move around.</sentence><sentence id="1854">They got more food, etc.</sentence><sentence id="1855">And so once in a while, he brought me a roll or a piece of bread and he hid it somewhere and I could take it.</sentence><sentence id="1856">And some of the other women also got it from the meisters.</sentence><sentence id="1857">Uh we were...slowly we were running out of material.</sentence><sentence id="1858">Because the <span class="REGION">eastern front</span> was coming in, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">shipments</span> were not coming.</sentence><sentence id="1859">And at the end they finally loaded all the material, all the fact...all the machinery on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> and took them to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1860">But they were bombed out on the way, which we were not sorry for.</sentence><sentence id="1861">But at that point, we were working.</sentence><sentence id="1862">L...that was a time where for nights and we worked twelve hour shifts again, we walked in the snow and ice three kilometers to the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>--which to me today three kilometers isn't much, but at that time it was terrible--and three kilometers back.</sentence><sentence id="1863">And some of us had to carry the uh big metal containers with soup, which we had at midnight.</sentence><sentence id="1864">Uh the craziness was, for instance, when they thought... They didn't know we lost menstruation; but when they thought we had a menstruation, we didn't have to carry it.</sentence><sentence id="1865">I mean logic, never logic.</sentence><sentence id="1866">Uh I remember once my...those shoes, those terrible shoes, were sticking in the snow and I couldn't get them out.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1867">And...and the last, and the women dragged me to the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>, absolutely dragged me.</sentence><sentence id="1868">And I was out of breathe for about a half hour before I could catch breathe.</sentence><sentence id="1869">I was totally out of it.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1870">Uh we walked through the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>; and was night, you know--seven, or seven to seven.</sentence><sentence id="1871">We never saw daylight.</sentence><sentence id="1872">And here there were lit <span class="DLF">windows</span>, and at Christmas people had Christmas trees.</sentence><sentence id="1873">And there were people living behind there, living normal lives; and we were like animals, going back and forth, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1874">Uh the...uh uh uh when we ran out of material, I had to sweep.</sentence><sentence id="1875">I had to run one of these big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">brooms</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1876">Horrible thing, to sweep for twelve hours.</sentence><sentence id="1877">The only thing is it gave me a possibility to move a little bit around the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>, and I made contact with a Czech guy.</sentence><sentence id="1878">At that time, we had some very sick people; and I asked him if he could get some pudding.</sentence><sentence id="1879">And he did get some pudding, and he hid it in some material.</sentence><sentence id="1880">And I went in and got the pudding and put it in my pocket, and brought it to this girl who was very sick.</sentence><sentence id="1881">Uh I sent him a letter after the war, "Thank you."</sentence><sentence id="1882">And his father answered that it was...he got the letter on his birthday; and he says, "That was the best letter I could get, to find out how well my son behaved."</sentence><sentence id="1883">Because, you see, these were 3 Czechs.</sentence><sentence id="1884">Uh Hitler gave the year 1924 to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>; and all the Czechs who were born in 1924 had to go and work as laborers in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1885">But they were able to go and visit, etc.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1886">And this is why I...the people with whom I made contact.</sentence><sentence id="1887">Once, the Italian boys had a whole big can of soup that got sour.</sentence><sentence id="1888">They said, "Do you want it?"</sentence><sentence id="1889">Of course, we ate it.</sentence><sentence id="1890">We said, "Well, we will think it's a potato salad.</sentence><sentence id="1891">That's why it's sour."</sentence><sentence id="1892">And we ate it.</sentence><sentence id="1893">We get sick, so we can't get sick.</sentence><sentence id="1894">Uh uh it...it was...L..I... This was the time when I really cried.</sentence><sentence id="1895">I cried and cried in hours and hours, because with with the work, with everything, it was just foreign.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1896">And I was getting more and more desperate.</sentence><sentence id="1897">And in uh December of that year, uh one of the girls of our group--Hannah, her name was also Hannah Klein; she was exactly the year I was in--became sick.</sentence><sentence id="1898">And I became convinced (we didn't have a doctor) that she had typhoid, because I worked so much with typhoid.</sentence><sentence id="1899">There was a certain smell about it, too.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1900">So she was moved into one empty <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> and I volunteered to be with her.</sentence><sentence id="1901">And the girl thought...I thought really I was with so much typhoid, I'm immune.</sentence><sentence id="1902">Nothing can happen to me.</sentence><sentence id="1903">And which was not unrealistic, which was...I was pretty much immune.</sentence><sentence id="1904">And the girls didn't even thought I went a little crazy, you know; and I left her soup <span class="NPIP">outside</span> so the others could pick it up, the two girls I met in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1905">And uh she died on the 19th of December "44.</sentence><sentence id="1906">And that was a really low point for me.</sentence><sentence id="1907">That was a really low point for me.</sentence><sentence id="1908">Now, miraculously, this uh last Lageralteste allowed me to have a flashlight for her at night-- which was unbelievable.</sentence><sentence id="1909">And she did get a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coffin</span>, plain wooden <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coffin</span>, for her.</sentence><sentence id="1910">And so I didn't have...I had washed her, and I didn't have anything.</sentence><sentence id="1911">So I put newspapers.</sentence><sentence id="1912">So they...1 got some newspaper, and I dressed her in the newspapers and stuffed it in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coffin</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1913">And it wasn't... And people asked, you know, "You are crazy!</sentence><sentence id="1914">Why are you doing it?"</sentence><sentence id="1915">You know.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1916">"Nobody does that."</sentence><sentence id="1917">And I said, "That's the only piece of dignity I can give her, that I treat her.</sentence><sentence id="1918">If I washed her when she was sick, why shouldn't I wash her now?"</sentence><sentence id="1919">This is the only piece of dignity I could give her.</sentence><sentence id="1920">But it wasn't until years later when I realized that somewhere in the back of my head--way, way back--was that the...what was the Jewish tradition.</sentence><sentence id="1921">Visit the sick.</sentence><sentence id="1922">Wash the dead.</sentence><sentence id="1923">Comb them, clean them, dress them before they go.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1924">But that was not conscious at all.</sentence><sentence id="1925">They thought I'm crazy.</sentence><sentence id="1926">Under these circumstances, I'm brushing her and dressing her in newspaper.</sentence><sentence id="1927">And she's buried there.</sentence><sentence id="1928">In that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, between October "44 and May "45, thirteen girls died.</sentence><sentence id="1929">You might say that's not much--only thirteen.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1930">But you have to remember, thirteen out of five hundred in less than...five, in six months...in six months, five...out of five hundred, thirteen people died.</sentence><sentence id="1931">And we were the women between eighteen and thirty-five.</sentence><sentence id="1932">So, then it's a lot.</sentence><sentence id="1933">Uh one girl uh had five children.</sentence><sentence id="1934">When she realized that uh they were all gone, she went crazy.</sentence><sentence id="1935">She went really crazy.</sentence><sentence id="1936">But it took her that long to really accept it.</sentence><sentence id="1937">Uh, miraculously that woman got <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coffins</span> for these women.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1938">It was unheard of.</sentence><sentence id="1939">Unheard of.</sentence><sentence id="1940">Once SS man came and asked us, "What is the thing you want the most?"</sentence><sentence id="1941">So we said things like a toothbrush.</sentence><sentence id="1942">You know, we were used to it.</sentence><sentence id="1943">You know, a toothbrush was so basic.</sentence><sentence id="1944">I had to repeated dreams, repeated dreams, about taking a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span> and having a nice towel.</sentence><sentence id="1945">You know?</sentence><sentence id="1946">Which means, you know, necessities were for us.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1947">And so he promised us toothbrushes.</sentence><sentence id="1948">Of course, we never got them.</sentence><sentence id="1949">But this was kind of teasing, total teasing.</sentence><sentence id="1950">Not being able to clean yourself.</sentence><sentence id="1951">I remember in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, our women--some were, there was a group of people who had to wash the laundry also for the SS.</sentence><sentence id="1952">And the SS had also lice.</sentence><sentence id="1953">They said they had lice even in their handkerchiefs.</sentence><sentence id="1954">I, one day,</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1955">4 I saved...I didn't eat the bread at all, and I saved it and I exchanged it in some sort of a contraption out of which I could make a bra.</sentence><sentence id="1956">I wanted a bra so badly.</sentence><sentence id="1957">For me, it was so basic I couldn't...so I just didn't eat the bread for a whole day so I would have a bra.</sentence><sentence id="1958">You know, the sort of left-overs of civilization.</sentence><sentence id="1959">And I remember sitting on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, and looking and finding my first louse.</sentence><sentence id="1960">Finding my first louse was another absolute downer.</sentence><sentence id="1961">This was like the last drop of civilization was gone.</sentence><sentence id="1962">So we had to look through for lice every day.</sentence><sentence id="1963">Uh we all had one needle together.</sentence><sentence id="1964">Needle got lost, which was a tragedy.</sentence><sentence id="1965">So what did we do again?</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1966">You know what we did?</sentence><sentence id="1967">We had uh uh... When we were all there, we had uh a game.</sentence><sentence id="1968">You had to make a menu card for a whole day, and then the next one had to make a menu card and you couldn't repeat it until everybody made all the menu cards for the week--you know, making menu cards.</sentence><sentence id="1969">We were telling jokes.</sentence><sentence id="1970">One of the girls read a book, uh [Margaret] Mitchell's Gone with the Wind.</sentence><sentence id="1971">I never read the book, but I remember her because she told us the whole contents of Gone with the Wind.</sentence><sentence id="1972">We were telling, uh saying...uh reciting poems--anything to keep our minds going.</sentence><sentence id="1973">Uh I knitted for one of the SS women a pair of socks, because she was uh...gave, she gave me a printed material.</sentence><sentence id="1974">We needed to read.</sentence><sentence id="1975">I mean, for us, not being able to read was deprivation.</sentence><sentence id="1976">And she gave me one of those Harl[equin]...uh romance-like things, you know--which was nothing, but I had something to read.</sentence><sentence id="1977">Which was another necessity, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1978">Uh she was a woman who could be...who could blow hot or could blow cold.</sentence><sentence id="1979">Uh when we came to the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> for the twelve hour shift, we got two little triangles, metal triangles, with DMV--"Deutsche Metal Werke."*</sentence><sentence id="1980">And when we went to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">john</span>, we had to put one in.</sentence><sentence id="1981">She was sitting there, so we could go twice in the twelve hours.</sentence><sentence id="1982">And, of course, we had diarrhea.</sentence><sentence id="1983">It...it was terrible there.</sentence><sentence id="1984">And once in a while, she talked to us and she told her boyfriend was at the front, etc.</sentence><sentence id="1985">etc.</sentence><sentence id="1986">And she could...on the other hand sometimes she could beat up people.</sentence><sentence id="1987">She was hot and cold.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1988">But uh she did give me a piece of soap for the...for the socks.</sentence><sentence id="1989">You did what you could.</sentence><sentence id="1990">And then we had one SS woman, Hanelle (ph), who warned...she didn't want to be SS woman.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1991">She was drafted.</sentence><sentence id="1992">And she warned us when the inspection came, and she escaped before the end of the war.</sentence><sentence id="1993">Changed into a civilian.</sentence><sentence id="1994">She didn't want any part of it.</sentence><sentence id="1995">There were a few decent people.</sentence><sentence id="1996">Uh we had uh, at Christmas time, it was cold as could be (cough).</sentence><sentence id="1997">The screws on the inside of the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> were white with ice.</sentence><sentence id="1998">And we tried to celebrate New Year and do some fun and things, even under those circumstances.</sentence><sentence id="1999">Uh (pause) uh you know, one tried humanity even under these circumstances.</sentence><sentence id="2000">And when toward the very end of the...of April, I didn't...I didn't think I'm going to survive.</sentence><sentence id="2001">I became very depressed.</sentence><sentence id="2002">You see how I talk now?</sentence><sentence id="2003">I talked so slowly, that people didn't have patience to listen to me.</sentence><sentence id="2004">I trained myself to go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span> every second day, to save strength.</sentence><sentence id="2005">Uh ...</sentence></p><p><sentence id="2006">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2007">A: You know, keeping our humanity under impossible situations was very important to us.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2009">Q: Yeah.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2011">&gt; Actually denominated in Nazi records as VDM, for "Vereinigte Deutsche Metallwerke."</sentence><sentence id="2012">5 TECHNICAL CONVERSATION [Sound backtracks at this point]</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2017">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2018">We're going to continue in a minute.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2021">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2022">A: Well, I didn't think I'm going to make it.</sentence><sentence id="2023">The <span class="ENV_FEATURES">hills</span> started to be green.</sentence><sentence id="2024">Spring might come.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2028">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2029">We can start.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2032">A: Uh, as I say, I became very depressed.</sentence><sentence id="2033">I didn't think I'm going to make it.</sentence><sentence id="2034">We looked out.</sentence><sentence id="2035">The <span class="ENV_FEATURES">hills</span> were green.</sentence><sentence id="2036">It looked fine.</sentence><sentence id="2037">Uh...and let me back-track.</sentence><sentence id="2038">At the end, they didn't have any material.</sentence><sentence id="2039">They shipped the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">machines</span> away.</sentence><sentence id="2040">The front was coming.</sentence><sentence id="2041">There was a pocket of resistance around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="51.127029" long="16.85199">Breslau</span> [Pol: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Wroc_aw</span>].</sentence><sentence id="2042">We were close to it.</sentence><sentence id="2043">We could hear the shooting; and you know, we were happy and all the...we are [thinking], "Maybe the end is coming."</sentence><sentence id="2044">And (cough) so they made work to do.</sentence><sentence id="2045">Taking the bricks from here to there, then bringing them back, etc.</sentence><sentence id="2046">In the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> next to us, one of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> next to us, were Russian prisoners of war.</sentence><sentence id="2047">But they were mostly the Mongolian--mustachioed, uh uh heavy-set uh Soviets.</sentence><sentence id="2048">They were not Russians.</sentence><sentence id="2049">They were Soviets.</sentence><sentence id="2050">And we each had a bowl.</sentence><sentence id="2051">That was the only, we each had a bowl and...and a spoon.</sentence><sentence id="2052">That was all we had.</sentence><sentence id="2053">And it was so cold, you know, at that time.</sentence><sentence id="2054">So what we did is, uh we put it under the coat and put a string around us so, because we didn't have gloves.</sentence><sentence id="2055">And again, we marched by five.</sentence><sentence id="2056">And Mimi (ph) was the oldest of us.</sentence><sentence id="2057">She was thirty-five.</sentence><sentence id="2058">She was old, you know.</sentence><sentence id="2059">And Mimi was also the most flat- chested of all of us; and here she's going with the bowl, and one of the Mongolian guys stepped out of his <span class="DLF">line</span>--with great danger--and to touch her, because he thought it was a breast, and because... He touched the dish.</sentence><sentence id="2060">Oh, we had...it was very dangerous for him; but of all of us, he happened to touch Mimi's dish.</sentence><sentence id="2061">So of course, you know, this was like a irony of the whole thing.</sentence><sentence id="2062">And uh you know, uh one of the...at the end, one of the girls was able through somebody else make a contact; because through the Czechs from the year 1924, we were able to make some contact.</sentence><sentence id="2063">Now, because there was not enough material, they were going to build from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span>--which was across the <span class="DLF">border</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>--uh a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad</span> connected with this on...on the <span class="DLF">Polish border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2064">They were going to make a connection.</sentence><sentence id="2065">And he was supposed to go and start working on it.</sentence><sentence id="2066">Some of the Czech women [NB: from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>] got together, even though it was rationing, got food and bribed the SS women by giving them more food for allow our group to eat.</sentence><sentence id="2067">They were wonderful.</sentence><sentence id="2068">They were wonderful.</sentence><sentence id="2069">So through them, there was also contact made with other Czechs in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, etc.,</sentence><sentence id="2070">so that that walking... I was not among the group, but I knew about it.</sentence><sentence id="2071">And was this contact with <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span>, and they were really truly wonderful.</sentence><sentence id="2072">They did it at great risk; but the SS women took the bribe of the food, because they didn't have that much either and thought they would allow other people to eat.</sentence><sentence id="2073">Can you imagine with this rationing everything?</sentence><sentence id="2074">And these [Czech] women at the great risk did it.</sentence><sentence id="2075">Uh Bo_enna Levitova was one of the women.</sentence><sentence id="2076">Her husband was Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="2077">She protected him; and her three children were 6 all in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2078">One in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.511" long="14.151">Theresienstadt</span>, and two in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2079">And she was doing this.</sentence><sentence id="2080">Just a great woman.</sentence><sentence id="2081">And uh, so we knew the end was coming near, but we didn't know when.</sentence><sentence id="2082">So, as I told you, I trained myself not to go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">bathroom</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2083">I walked very slowly.</sentence><sentence id="2084">Uh, I had these horrible shoes to walk in.</sentence><sentence id="2085">So these two girls had each extra shoes, so I walked.</sentence><sentence id="2086">When the war ended, I walked to liberation with two different shoes.</sentence><sentence id="2087">But they were shoes.</sentence><sentence id="2088">Uh as <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> go, this one was by no means the worst.</sentence><sentence id="2089">This one was pretty good.</sentence><sentence id="2090">Even so, we were getting pretty desperate what's going on to happen.</sentence><sentence id="2091">Uh came May 5, end of the war.</sentence><sentence id="2092">The SS just opened the <span class="DLF">door</span> and disappeared.</sentence><sentence id="2093">We walked to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2094">There was a tremendous uh crowd of people, all going from east to west, escaping from the Russians, going westward.</sentence><sentence id="2095">In <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cars</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>, uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycles</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycles</span>--you name it.</sentence><sentence id="2096">And we walked in the meantime to the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2097">We came to the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2098">Nobody told us what we are going to do, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="2099">Spontaneously, totally spontaneously, we stopped and sang the Czech anthem.</sentence><sentence id="2100">It was so spontaneous, I can't tell you.</sentence><sentence id="2101">In that moment of that anthem and crossing the <span class="DLF">border</span>, it was just like this: I was to normal.</sentence><sentence id="2102">I spoke normal.</sentence><sentence id="2103">I walked normal.</sentence><sentence id="2104">Everything was normal.</sentence><sentence id="2105">It was a real situation depression.</sentence><sentence id="2106">And we walked into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nachod</span>; and that night I volunteered for Red Cross, because there was still shooting.</sentence><sentence id="2107">The Germans were coming through.</sentence><sentence id="2108">The Russians were chasing them.</sentence><sentence id="2109">There was still shooting going on, so I volunteered for <span class="BUILDING">Red Cross</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2110">And somebody brought us... Of course, they all saw in us that we are prisoners, how we were dressed.</sentence><sentence id="2111">Uh, uh they brought us the Czech bread--about this thick--and on it was that much butter and honey.</sentence><sentence id="2112">And I see the picture when I took that slice of bread with the butter and honey, and I bit into it.</sentence><sentence id="2113">You know, the teeth were singing!</sentence><sentence id="2114">I remember that first, eating that bread with the butter on it.</sentence><sentence id="2115">We walked...uh we went to this uh Bo enna Levitova, and she took three of us... three of us in--this woman who had the children.</sentence><sentence id="2116">She let us to have a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2117">She put us in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> with pillows and covers.</sentence><sentence id="2118">Uh Trude, who was a friend of mine--we pinched each other at night.</sentence><sentence id="2119">Is this a dream, or do we really sleep in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>?</sentence><sentence id="2120">And she fed us for a few days.</sentence><sentence id="2121">This man whom I met on the <span class="DLF">street</span>, who knew that Jana, he come and gave each of us some money.</sentence><sentence id="2122">On the <span class="DLF">streets</span>, there was...they took down the Hakenkreuz [NB: the Swastika] and put it on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2123">For one crown, everybody was allowed to clean his shoes in it.</sentence><sentence id="2124">And uh this woman was just really terrific.</sentence><sentence id="2125">All her three children returned.</sentence><sentence id="2126">I have her picture.</sentence><sentence id="2127">We visited her after the war.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2225">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2226">We are about at the end of the tape.</sentence><sentence id="2227">Is there anything you want to add?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2231">A: Not about that <span class="NPIP">part</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2233">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2234">Thank you.</sentence><sentence id="2235">Very much.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2239">A: You're welcomed.</sentence><sentence id="2240">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION 7 PHOTOGRAPHS () Hanna's mother's parents, who lived in her parents" <span class="BUILDING">home</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> while Hanna was growing up. (</sentence><sentence id="2241">2) Hanna at age 23.</sentence><sentence id="2242">The photograph was taken in 1945, one month after she was liberated. (</sentence><sentence id="2243">3) Newspaper clipping showing photo of Hanna's post-war wedding to Charles Bruml.</sentence><sentence id="2244">The clipping appears to be from The New York Times.</sentence><sentence id="2245">Hanna states that the wedding took place at the <span class="BUILDING">city hall</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">New York</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
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