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layout: transcript
interviewee: isaac none danon
rg_number: rg-50.030.0058
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0058_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504555
gender: m
birth_date: none
birth_year: 1929.0
place_of_birth: split
country: yugoslavia
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: none
needs_research: none
data_entry: gg
accession: none
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
---
layout: transcript
interviewee: isaac none danon
rg_number: rg-50.030.0058
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0058_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504555
gender: m
birth_date: none
birth_year: 1929.0
place_of_birth: split
country: yugoslavia
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: none
needs_research: none
data_entry: gg
accession: none
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">ISAAC DANON November 6, 1989</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: Would you tell us your name and where and when you were born?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: OK.</sentence><sentence id="6">My name is Isaac Danon.</sentence><sentence id="7">They call me Mike--my nickname.</sentence><sentence id="8">I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span>," <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span> in 1929.</sentence><sentence id="9">I lived there with my family, my mother and father.</sentence><sentence id="10">I have three sisters.</sentence><sentence id="11">One is older than me, two years older, Blanka.</sentence><sentence id="12">And my two younger sisters, one is Sarah-- she is about two years younger than me.</sentence><sentence id="13">And the youngest sister, her name is Esther.</sentence><sentence id="14">She is about five years younger than I am.</sentence><sentence id="15">Split is a small <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> on the Adriatic coast of <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>, about 50,000 population before the war.</sentence><sentence id="16">We lived there with uh there was about 200 other Jewish families in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="17">We had a rather active Jewish life.</sentence><sentence id="18">We had our <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, was one <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>.</sentence><sentence id="19">We had a <span class="BUILDING">social club</span>.</sentence><sentence id="20">| think it was called "Yarden" [Hebrew meaning "Jordan"].And we had our regular Zionist clubs.</sentence><sentence id="21">We had a lot of friends.</sentence><sentence id="22">Uh, the kids were going to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="23">I was going, at that time, before the war, the last year of <span class="BUILDING">school</span> that I went to was first <span class="BUILDING">Gymnasium</span> which was an equivalent to fifth grade.</sentence><sentence id="24">And we had a lot of friends, both Jewish and non-Jewish friends.</sentence><sentence id="25">The, I don't remember any particular uh antisemitism being present in our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span>.</sentence><sentence id="26">Maybe some individual cases here and there, but not organized and not uh surely, not uh legal type.</sentence><sentence id="27">Although as the things got worse in Europe, there was more activity by some groups that were sympathetic to the Nazis, but uh I belonged to some uh clubs and some organizations like uh like you would have here, Boy Scouts, but it was mostly a national organization for sports and patriotism and there was no antisemitism that I can remember.</sentence><sentence id="28">The war came to <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span> in early 1941.</sentence><sentence id="29">We first were hit by that when my father was drafted into the service, into the Army.</sentence><sentence id="30">They have like a general mobilization.</sentence><sentence id="31">He was forty, but they took him anyway.</sentence><sentence id="32">And uh there was some kind of a palace coup, I guess.</sentence><sentence id="33">The King took over the reign of the government.</sentence><sentence id="34">He was a small boy, became 18, took over the government and broke relations with <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and the Axis and we knew things were going to happen then.</sentence><sentence id="35">And sure enough about two, three weeks later, the German and Italian forces invaded our <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="36">We were very lucky that we lived in the part that has been claimed by <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> for a long, long time--<span class="REGION">Dalmatian Province</span>, or the <span class="DLF">coast</span> along the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Adriatic</span>.</sentence><sentence id="37">And when...of course, when they [the Italians] attacked, they took the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> over in less than two weeks; and the Italians occupied that part.</sentence><sentence id="38">So that's one good thing that happened.</sentence><sentence id="39">When the Italians took over the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, that part of the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, I can describe the occupation as being benign.</sentence><sentence id="40">We as Jews had the same difficulties or same lack of problems as the rest of the local population.</sentence><sentence id="41">There were shortages of food and other materials and rationing which you expect with a war, but otherwise we didn't fare much worse than the rest of the population, with some exceptions, let me say.</sentence><sentence id="42">For one thing uh Jews could not work in the public life.</sentence><sentence id="43">They couldn't be teachers or officials of any kind.</sentence><sentence id="44">They couldn't work in the <span class="BUILDING">offices</span>.</sentence><sentence id="45">And we, the kids, we were not allowed to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="46">But a little ingenuity solved that problem.</sentence><sentence id="47">We took the Jewish teachers and we formed <span class="BUILDING">Jewish schools</span> and that took care of that.</sentence><sentence id="48">I unfortunately couldn't go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> because my " Also known as Spljet among some Dalmatian speakers of Serbo-Croatian, and Spalato among Italian speakers.</sentence><sentence id="49">father needed me in our <span class="BUILDING">business</span>.</sentence><sentence id="50">We had a, I guess you could call it a <span class="BUILDING">dry goods store</span>.</sentence><sentence id="51">Very small one uh and most of the Jewish community was involved in either some type of small trades or they were in some of the professions, although we did have some that were rather poor in the community.</sentence><sentence id="52">But anyway, uh during the Italian occupation our life was not too bad with some minor exceptions.</sentence><sentence id="53">As uh I think back, occasionally they would flood the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> with some "antisemitic" slogans.</sentence><sentence id="54">I remember some of the instances where my uncle who was a barber, they came with a big sign says, "Jews are not welcome here," and they wanted him to put it in his <span class="DLF">window</span>.</sentence><sentence id="55">And he says, "OK, you want me to put that.</sentence><sentence id="56">Fine.</sentence><sentence id="57">I'll put it and here are my keys and here are the scissors.</sentence><sentence id="58">You take over.</sentence><sentence id="59">I'm Jewish."</sentence><sentence id="60">So, we had these little instances.</sentence><sentence id="61">One case that I remember and that was the worst case that happened was right after my bar mitzvah was one Saturday and the following Friday; I guess there was some kind of activity.</sentence><sentence id="62">The Germans were coming to help the Italians celebrate, so they [the Italians] had to demonstrate how good they were as far as the Germans are concerned.</sentence><sentence id="63">So the local Fascists came to <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> and asked everybody to leave, and as people were leaving, they were hitting them with clubs of the uh rifles and kicking them and few little things like that.</sentence><sentence id="64">Although I do remember in my, some older people that were there, they would go out, then they wouldn't bother them.</sentence><sentence id="65">But the worst thing was next morning when we came, you know, we saw what was happening, we were afraid that they might come and take us or something like that, but so we went early in the morning and we saw they had taken all the things out of the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, the torahs, the books and they put them in the public square and they had a big bonfire.</sentence><sentence id="66">Uh the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> was in a section called the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> which was the real <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, the type uh that, uh the word itself means, you know, where the Jewish were kept, but this was right outside the public square so most of the Jews didn't live there.</sentence><sentence id="67">I mean hardly anybody, but the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> was there because it was a very very old one.</sentence><sentence id="68">Uh anyway, when we came, we saw that, and then we went to our <span class="BUILDING">store</span> and we saw somebody was trying to break in, but our <span class="BUILDING">store</span> was so small we didn't even have the glass plates, so nothing happened.</sentence><sentence id="69">But they did go around and broke the <span class="DLF">windows</span> of the <span class="BUILDING">Jewish stores</span> and they looted the stuff, so that was our "Kristallnacht."</sentence><sentence id="70">But the following day the life went on as though nothing happened and we just didn't have a <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> anymore.</sentence><sentence id="71">But during the whole period before that, like more than a year that the Italians had occupied the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>...uh that portion of the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, we lived uh peacefully and normally except for some of these instances.</sentence><sentence id="72">In fact, uh a lot of immigrants--a lot of Jews that were able to escape from other parts of the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> that were occupied by Germans and "their quislings"--they also came to this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and this <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="73">And they found a haven over there.</sentence><sentence id="74">Uh as I mentioned earlier, there was about two hundred uh Jewish families in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="75">Well, after a few months the number swelled to four or five thousand, and then maybe up to ten thousand people that came from other <span class="NPIP">places</span> and at that point the Italians started getting panicky.</sentence><sentence id="76">The Italian authorities, they asked the Jewish community to disperse them throughout the <span class="REGION">area</span> that they [the Italians] controlled, and then finally they started taking them away to, I guess we can call them <span class="BUILDING">internment centers</span>.</sentence><sentence id="77">Both, different <span class="REGION">areas</span> along the <span class="DLF">occupied coast</span> and also in <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> proper.</sentence><sentence id="78">Uh I didn't think of this too much, but Italians were really, uh what shall I say, they helped many people.</sentence><sentence id="79">They saved us for one thing, and they and many times when the Germans were, their quislings, the Croatians, they wanted to occupy certain <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">towns</span> or they wanted to take certain Jews away to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camps</span>, the Italians would step in and say, "This is our <span class="REGION">area</span> and you can't cross."</sentence><sentence id="80">And it was, for them it was, you know, a territorial issue which for us it was a case of life or death.</sentence><sentence id="81">But our problems really started after the fall of <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="82">That's when uh Mussolini fell, of course, and the Italians uh signed a, I guess uh - what is it - they capitulated to the Allied troops.</sentence><sentence id="83">Well, in these <span class="REGION">areas</span> that were occupied by Italians became like uh free areas and it was free-for-all, who was going to grab what.</sentence><sentence id="84">The Partisans" came out of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span> and they took over some.</sentence><sentence id="85">The, the Croatian quislings took some over.</sentence><sentence id="86">The Germans took some, but the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> where we lived was taken over by the Partisans, uh the underground resistance.</sentence><sentence id="87">They came out and I guess they compromised themselves, the local population who helped them and who didn't.</sentence><sentence id="88">And I found out that my older sister, she had been working in the <span class="INT_SPACE">underground</span> which we didn't know about even though my sister and I were quite close.</sentence><sentence id="89">But at that time she was uh less than sixteen years old and but there was things to do for everybody during the war.</sentence><sentence id="90">Anyway, uh my sister at that point joined the Partisans and so did many uh local youths.</sentence><sentence id="91">They, the Partisans were trying to get them to join them and go into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span> and uh I would say a lot of them did join, but we remained in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> and the Partisans tried to hold that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="92">They had taken, they had uh disarmed the Italian Army.</sentence><sentence id="93">They had some, some arms now, and the new recruits that had joined them, so they were going to defend the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, and they tried that for two, three weeks, but the German troops just came over with their full armor and everything and they took over the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, but not before they came in, we were, we [a]wakened in the middle of the night by neighbors banging at the <span class="DLF">door</span> and saying - I remember one lady yelling, "Mr. Danon, Mr. Danon," to my father--he was the mister--anyway, "Mr. Danon, the Germans are coming."</sentence><sentence id="94">So we knew that the Germans always take the men first and we were ready to escape.</sentence><sentence id="95">My father and I, we had our backpacks all packed in advance.</sentence><sentence id="96">We put them on, said goodbye to my mother and my sisters and we went away.</sentence><sentence id="97">That's the last time we saw our <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="98">We went into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span>.</sentence><sentence id="99">And uh we joined the Partisans there.</sentence><sentence id="100">At first not as fighters, but we just traveled with them and did what ever could be done and we traveled with them for a couple of months through the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span>.</sentence><sentence id="101">This was, you, you hide during the daytime and you tippy- toe at night crossing <span class="DLF">German lines</span> maybe several times, you know, going from one <span class="NPIP">place</span> to another until we arrived to one of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">islands</span> uh on the <span class="DLF">coast</span>.</sentence><sentence id="102">Actually, what people were doing, they were going to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span> and they would come to the <span class="DLF">coast</span> and they would uh maybe there would be a little uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">rowboat</span> or a little <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">junk</span> and in the middle of the night they would go aboard one of these and go to the, one of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">islands</span>.</sentence><sentence id="103">Only the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">islands</span> weren't safe because Germans could always come over there too.</sentence><sentence id="104">Now we went to one of these <span class="ENV_FEATURES">islands</span> and we were with the Partisans there and my father and I were, I guess I won't call it conscriptive--we were regular military unit at that time.</sentence><sentence id="105">Uh, I was assigned to a <span class="BUILDING">machine shop</span> where we repaired ammunition and other <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">equipment</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">automotive</span> and what not, and my father was uh, I remember they called this the, the duty that they assigned to him--"ekonom," which, uh, meant supply sergeant.</sentence><sentence id="106">And uh we were there for four, five months, I guess.</sentence><sentence id="107">Time just, it's not too clearly in my mind right now.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="214">Q: What <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> was that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="216">* Communist resistance forces led by Joseph Broz Tito.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="217">A: Well, the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span>'s called <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Hvar</span>, H - V - A - R. I can't pronounce r's too well.</sentence><sentence id="218">Uh and it's a relatively large <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span>.</sentence><sentence id="219">It had two little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span> and the one where we were in was called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Starigrad</span>, which means old <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="220">Uh, anyway one time the Germans did invade that <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> and there was fear because there was not too much in the way of defense.</sentence><sentence id="221">Uh, and this was in the middle of the war.</sentence><sentence id="222">The Allies were uh stuck down <span class="REGION">southern Italy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="223">Uh, there was, uh I guess we all read about the <span class="BUILDING">Monte Cassino</span>" or wherever they were, they couldn't move forward and uh there was nothing happening anywhere else.</sentence><sentence id="224">Even the Russians, the <span class="REGION">Russian front</span> had stalemated, been stalemated for a while, so this was middle of the war and it could have gone either way and we were pretty fearful at the time.</sentence><sentence id="225">Well, anyway, my father and I guess he wasn't having a very easy time of it.</sentence><sentence id="226">Uh, first the work was hard for him and and there wasn't enough food and the people who depended on him to obtain food, like supply sergeant meant getting flour and making sure the bread was made and uh you know other food uh was provided and clothing and what not--they were always complaining and uh they were blaming him for all the shortages and so I remember uh he somehow disappeared or--I didn't see him for several days and they kept pestering me, uh you know--"Where is your father?</sentence><sentence id="227">What happened?"</sentence><sentence id="228">This and that.</sentence><sentence id="229">I didn't know.</sentence><sentence id="230">And I guess my father had left.</sentence><sentence id="231">He had uh gone some other <span class="NPIP">route</span>.</sentence><sentence id="232">But two weeks later I received a very official uh teletype telling me to report to another <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> and report myself to the command of the <span class="BUILDING">hospital unit</span>.</sentence><sentence id="233">I had no idea what that was all about.</sentence><sentence id="234">Well, I made arrangements to go there, and this was another <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> called <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Vis</span>, V - 1- S. And this <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> was uh formed into a strong point by the Partisans.</sentence><sentence id="235">It was the furtherest [farthest] <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> from <span class="REGION">Yugoslavian coast</span> and closest to <span class="DLF">Italian coast</span>, closest to the point where the Allied troops were.</sentence><sentence id="236">So this was used by the Allied troops to help the Partisans.</sentence><sentence id="237">At this point, if 1 can introduce a little politics here, uh the Allies had started recognizing the Partisans as the fighting force as opposed to other, there was a fellow by the name of Dra_a Mihailovi_,* who was left by the King uh to, I guess, to organize resistance, but he evidently didn't do the job that they expected, or maybe there were political differences and the Partisans were communist-oriented and the other ones were uh for monarchy and so there was a lot of internal struggle, but let me get away from that.</sentence><sentence id="238">But uh anyway the Allies had started recognizing and helping the Partisans.</sentence><sentence id="239">So, this uh <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> was made into a <span class="BUILDING">fortress</span>.</sentence><sentence id="240">They used that to bring the supplies and also there was another point that the Allies were trying to convey a message to the Germans that they were going to open a new front, a second front, at the <span class="REGION">Balkans</span> and come through there, so they were encouraging the local population to escape, and the local population had developed like an underground railroad you can almost call it.</sentence><sentence id="241">They would get themselves to the <span class="DLF">coast</span> and from the <span class="DLF">coastline</span> they would come by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">junks</span> to these, to this particular <span class="ENV_FEATURES">island</span> and the uh British Navy would come and pick them up there and take them to <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>, where they had like &gt; <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Monte Cassino</span> was the strong point of a <span class="DLF">German defensive line</span> that delayed the Allied advance on <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Rome</span> until June 1944."</sentence><sentence id="242">Dragoljub (Dra_a) Mihailovi_ (also Mihajlovi_) was the leader of the _etniks, an anticommunist Serbian resistance force loyal to the royal Yugoslav government-in-exile.</sentence><sentence id="243">I would call it regroupment points.</sentence><sentence id="244">They would create uh units of uh refugees, I guess by location, and take them to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span>, to the <span class="DLF">desert</span> to wait for the end of the war.</sentence><sentence id="245">Well, uh when I came, I gotta go back now to my tele... telegram that I received.</sentence><sentence id="246">When I presented myself there, that actually my father had sent it to get me to come there and I met him there again and he told me that he has, he had joined this group that was going to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span> and he was going to go with the troops and he told me to sign up for it also at the first opportunity and we'll meet there.</sentence><sentence id="247">And I did that and I know he went one time and uh the first opportunity that I had when the British uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ship</span> came--uh, they were small <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">PT boats</span> or something that would pick up thirty, forty people, uh you know, pile us up and go across the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Adriatic</span> and we went uh over there.</sentence><sentence id="248">I went there with the British to a...the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> was called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bari</span>, B - A - R - I.There was a big <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, where all the refugees were coming but from there they would ship us by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> or <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, mostly <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span>, to the other <span class="NPIP">side</span> and further [farther] down south, southern tip of <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> where there were a lot of uh <span class="BUILDING">summer homes</span> from the rich northern Italian people.</sentence><sentence id="249">This was in the winter.</sentence><sentence id="250">So they would organize these groups and from there they would take them to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Naples</span> and to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span> from there.</sentence><sentence id="251">Well, anyway, that's where I, I was taken and I met my father there again and we were in those <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> uh, waiting for our shipment to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="252">While we were there, uh there were many people incidentally.</sentence><sentence id="253">By the thousands they were coming from all <span class="NPIP">over</span>.</sentence><sentence id="254">While we were there, we learned that my mother's two sisters were also there in the vicinity and my mother's brother was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bari</span> uh, with his family, so we had some family that was still alive.</sentence><sentence id="255">Uh, if, if I can go back a little bit, uh--this was about my family, my parent's family.</sentence><sentence id="256">My parents!</sentence><sentence id="257">family, both of them came from a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.867" long="18.417">Sarajevo</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="258">Well, my mother's parents came in the early "90's.</sentence><sentence id="259">They came down to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span> which was our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">home town</span>, and they settled there and they had uh whatever they did- -I don't remember now--but as I remember my grandfather, he was the "shamas" [sexton] at our <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>.</sentence><sentence id="260">That was his occupation.</sentence><sentence id="261">But as the children grew up they got married and some went to different <span class="NPIP">locations</span>, and one of my, two of my mother's sisters went back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.867" long="18.417">Sarajevo</span>.</sentence><sentence id="262">Uh so when the war broke out, they were in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.867" long="18.417">Sarajevo</span>.</sentence><sentence id="263">So one of them was able to come down to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span> and stay with the rest of the family, and they were saved.</sentence><sentence id="264">The other one perished in the war.</sentence><sentence id="265">On my father's side, he had his parents and five brothers.</sentence><sentence id="266">They were also in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.867" long="18.417">Sarajevo</span> but some of them lived right outside <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.867" long="18.417">Sarajevo</span>, in a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and and none of them were saved.</sentence><sentence id="267">They all perished with one exception, my Uncle David, my father's brother who was in the [Yugoslav] Army during the mobilization and the Germans captured them and they shipped them someplace wherever they had their Army prisoners and I guess he passed as a non-Jew and that's how when the war ended when some of them were repatriated, he was still alive.</sentence><sentence id="268">So when we were talking about who was able to be saved and who wasn't, my father counted twenty-eight of his relatives that died.</sentence><sentence id="269">Relatives meaning mother, father, brothers, sister-in-laws [sic] and their children.</sentence><sentence id="270">So but anyway, back to where we were in <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="271">We lived there uh for a couple of weeks and then when it was time to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span> my father got cold feet and he says I'm not going to the <span class="DLF">desert</span>.</sentence><sentence id="272">So in the morning when they were gathering us all to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Egypt</span>, my father got me out of <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> and we left the group.</sentence><sentence id="273">We booked, uh took a horse and <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">buggy</span> from a local uh farmer.</sentence><sentence id="274">He took us to the nearest <span class="BUILDING">train station</span>, we boarded the <span class="BUILDING">train station</span> and we went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> where he dropped us off.</sentence><sentence id="275">It's a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lecci</span> [Lecce], L - E- C - C - I [E], in <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="276">It's near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bari</span> but maybe about fifteen miles or so.</sentence><sentence id="277">Anyway, and that's where we settled and my father got a job there with the Allied occupation forces as a uh censor, uh read the mail, and I was just hanging around the <span class="DLF">streets</span>.</sentence><sentence id="278">I had friends.</sentence><sentence id="279">I had, uh don't forget I was thirteen years old there and then.</sentence><sentence id="280">I had a uniform that I brought with me which was an American or British soldier's uniform, like an Eisenhower jacket, a military thing you know and I would parade there with my friends enjoying life, you know, uh, uh as a thirteen year old would, uh showing off my clothes, you know.</sentence><sentence id="281">Well anyway uh there was very uneventful at the time and then, this was June "44, the end of June.</sentence><sentence id="282">Uh, they [the Western Allies] already had, they opened a new front in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Normandy</span>" and all that and we heard that there was an invitation from the American government for a thousand people, a thousand displaced persons to come to <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> and uh OK, we said, "Let's go.</sentence><sentence id="283">Shall we go, yeah."</sentence><sentence id="284">We signed up and this was quick like you know.</sentence><sentence id="285">They took our names.</sentence><sentence id="286">I understand there was a lot of people who signed up but only a thousand could go.</sentence><sentence id="287">Uh we didn't know for sure whether it was just Jewish or not, but anyway we signed up and we were getting ready to go and three days before we were ready to leave, we learned that my mother and two sisters had come to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bari</span> also.</sentence><sentence id="288">Now this is a story in itself the way the refugees would uh--it's almost like uh <span class="DLF">telephone lines</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="289">You would go into the group and you say, "Is anybody here from such and such a <span class="NPIP">place</span>?"</sentence><sentence id="290">And they say, "No, we are not, but we know somebody who is," you know, and we know so and so and oh yeah, but he knows somebody who knows somebody.</sentence><sentence id="291">And that's how we all met you know, after the war.</sentence><sentence id="292">And that's how my mother when she came with one of the groups uh, you know, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">British naval vessel</span>, and they told her that we know somebody who is also from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span> who may be related to you, you know.</sentence><sentence id="293">And they said, "Well, his name is so and so," and he says, "That's my brother," you know.</sentence><sentence id="294">So we all, we got together and within the next three days the miracle of bureaucracy--they were able to clear my mother and my two sisters and we, uh we were picked up at one point in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bari</span> and we boarded <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, uh different people are coming from different parts of <span class="REGION">southern Italy</span> and we went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Naples</span> uh in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="295">Well, we stopped off for three days for delousing sessions and all that.</sentence><sentence id="296">Boarded a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ship</span> and one of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ships</span>, uh I forgot its name, uh Henry something or other, but it was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ship</span> that was taking the American soldiers back and it was one of the regular <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">troop ships</span> and we were given one little corner with uh, uh, what do you call these <span class="INT_SPACE">sleeping quarters</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">hammocks</span>, yeah, five deep, yeah.</sentence><sentence id="297">And uh we waited in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Naples</span> for enough <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ships</span> so they can form a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">convoy</span>; and we departed from there near the end of July.</sentence><sentence id="298">Thirteen days uh on the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">sea</span>.</sentence><sentence id="299">Several times they thought they saw the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">German U- boats</span>, and they went through the routine of putting that fog, artificial fog.</sentence><sentence id="300">We as kids, we enjoyed all that.</sentence><sentence id="301">1 was fourteen by that time.</sentence><sentence id="302">On August 3rd, 1944, we landed in New York Harbor.</sentence><sentence id="303">I believe it's <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="43.488998" long="-1.473">Bayonne</span> or some <span class="NPIP">place</span>, wherever the troop shipments were uh being unloaded.</sentence><sentence id="304">And we got into <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> there and we went overnight.</sentence><sentence id="305"><span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Train</span> stopped in front of a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">military camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="306">We got out; and this was upstate New York, near a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oswego</span>.</sentence><sentence id="307">This was an old <span class="BUILDING">Army base</span> called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Fort Ontario</span>.</sentence><sentence id="308">And that's where we spent next year and a half.</sentence><sentence id="309">Uh I can tell you about our life over there, if you want to hear it.</sentence><sentence id="310">Well, uh first, uh well, this was summer time of course, August then.</sentence><sentence id="311">In September was when the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> opened.</sentence><sentence id="312">We were invited to join the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="313">None of us knew any English at the time.</sentence><sentence id="314">I speak a few foreign languages but English ?</sentence><sentence id="315">Anglo-American-Canadian forces landed on the Normandy Peninsula of <span class="COUNTRY">France</span> on June 6, 1944.</sentence><sentence id="316">was not one of them.</sentence><sentence id="317">But anyway we started going to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, and our, our parents were uh just staying there.</sentence><sentence id="318">What bothered us mostly was the <span class="DLF">fence</span>.</sentence><sentence id="319">We were not allowed to go out except to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="320">We had little passes and we had to return, sign in and out.</sentence><sentence id="321">That was a little disappointing.</sentence><sentence id="322">But basically that's uh what happened.</sentence><sentence id="323">And we spent there until the war was over actually, and then I guess there was a lot of discussion whether we should go back or not.</sentence><sentence id="324">Uh we had signed that we, before we came we had signed uh what kind of agreement with the American government that we were going to stay there for the duration of the war, and then go back.</sentence><sentence id="325">And uh, when the war was over I guess we were being asked whether we wanted to go back.</sentence><sentence id="326">Some people did go immediately because they left their, part of their families.</sentence><sentence id="327">But uh many of us, most of us, wanted to stay in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="328">So there was a lot of politicking and this is another story altogether and this was documented in this uh book that uh was written, let's see, the book is called "Haven," "The Haven," and it was written by Ruth Gruber.deg She was closely involved in that so she would know more about that.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="444">Q: Can you--was your father involved in the politicking at all?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="446">A: No, my father was, uh actually what happened to my father - he was demoralized at the end of the war.</sentence><sentence id="447">Uh he had this little business that he ran in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span> during the war and uh he, when we left, he knew that everything was gone.</sentence><sentence id="448">All the lifetime's work.</sentence><sentence id="449">And his family was all gone.</sentence><sentence id="450">They were killed.</sentence><sentence id="451">And he just gave up on everything.</sentence><sentence id="452">So even when we came out, uh after we were allowed to remain in <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>, he couldn't do anything.</sentence><sentence id="453">He didn't work or anything else.</sentence><sentence id="454">It was uh, he was psychologically drained.</sentence><sentence id="455">I wanted to mention something else about my sisters and my mother.</sentence><sentence id="456">After my father and I had left, we didn't know what has happened or how they were going to manage.</sentence><sentence id="457">All we knew is that Germans usually take the men first and women hopefully uh later or whatever, but anyway we were hoping that things could work out.</sentence><sentence id="458">Well, my sisters and my mother told me later their story and maybe I can bring out some of those points.</sentence><sentence id="459">Uh, my mother was in a panic and had these two younger sisters as I mentioned: my next younger sister, Sarah, she was nine year old and then this was the youngest one, Esther, six years old.</sentence><sentence id="460">And I understand that my nine-year old sister was the hero of the family.</sentence><sentence id="461">She led everybody along.</sentence><sentence id="462">She says, "OK, this is not the <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="463">It's not safe here.</sentence><sentence id="464">Let's go into hiding."</sentence><sentence id="465">And she forced my mother to make arrangements to go into hiding.</sentence><sentence id="466">First they stayed wherever our <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> was.</sentence><sentence id="467">Then somebody else took them in, similar to the story of Anne Frank, while the Germans were around, you know.</sentence><sentence id="468">They were still hiding and they would go <span class="NPIP">outside</span> in the <span class="DLF">streets</span> and see what was happening, and uh that wasn't too safe.</sentence><sentence id="469">Uh then they talked to a person who had a <span class="DLF">farm</span> like a--this was lots of vineyards in that part of the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="470">They had a big uh <span class="DLF">vineyard</span>, maybe about thirty, forty miles from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, so they had friends who had friends and they took them to this <span class="DLF">farm</span> which is, you know, you're away from civilization.</sentence><sentence id="471">Nobody comes there.</sentence><sentence id="472">So they were safe there for a while and my mother had some money that uh we were able to save up and I remember when my father and I left, they split up the money, hopefully uh in case either <span class="NPIP">side</span> deg Ruth Gruber, Haven: The Unknown Story of 1,000 World War II Refugees (New York: Coward-McCann, 1983).</sentence><sentence id="473">needed you know.</sentence><sentence id="474">So uh my mother was paying them whatever, and then after a while these people were also afraid, so they wouldn't keep my parents any more so my sister, she took my other sister by one hand and my mother by another, and they went into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span> and they traveled on foot without shoes, you know--that's the kind of stuff--through, well there were no <span class="DLF">roads</span>.</sentence><sentence id="475">Even today <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span> doesn't have any <span class="DLF">roads</span> to speak of, but you know, you go through the <span class="DLF">donkey trails</span> and uh they ended up the same way that we did.</sentence><sentence id="476">The same <span class="NPIP">spot</span>, only nine months later.</sentence><sentence id="477">That's my mother and my two younger sisters.</sentence><sentence id="478">My older sister, she, after the fall of <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>, she joined the Partisan fighting unit and she was uh she's, right now she is 4'10" in high heels (laughter), so she's a little girl but anyway she was there carrying her load and uh she tells a story about how they would attack from one <span class="NPIP">side</span> and they went around the other side of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span> and attacked the Germans from the other <span class="NPIP">side</span> to give the impression that there was more of them.</sentence><sentence id="479">And she got wounded in the leg and she still has problems with that leg.</sentence><sentence id="480">Uh I, occasionally I would ask her stories about uh the war, you know, and they had all these what they called German offensive.</sentence><sentence id="481">First offensive, second offensive, sixth offensive, and she was in all of them as a fighting Partisan.</sentence><sentence id="482">They had both men and women.</sentence><sentence id="483">There was no distinction at the time.</sentence><sentence id="484">Incidentally this sister of mine, her name is Blanka, she never came to <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="485">She stayed there, but I guess she had a pretty pleasant life after the war.</sentence><sentence id="486">The first wasn't so, and then she got married and they traveled throughout the world and she lived in <span class="COUNTRY">India</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Cairo</span> and uh, uh some <span class="NPIP">place</span> in <span class="REGION">Africa</span>--I just couldn't keep track of all the <span class="NPIP">places</span>.</sentence><sentence id="487">She studied in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Moscow</span> and in <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> and she's been to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> a few times.</sentence><sentence id="488">She comes here every other year, so she didn't have such a bad life after that, but anyway .. .</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="534">Q: Can you tell me a little bit more about your life in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Fort Ontario</span>?</sentence><sentence id="535">What the kind of restrictions were like?</sentence><sentence id="536">Uh, what your daily life was like?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="540">A: Oh, OK.</sentence><sentence id="541">Sure.</sentence><sentence id="542">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Fort Ontario</span>, that was when we first came, we were a bunch of, oh what should I say, proud kids.</sentence><sentence id="543">We were not going to let anybody give us the impression that we are poor and uh we needed help from anybody.</sentence><sentence id="544">See, it was little thing psychologically that when we came here, we were greeted, welcomed and all that.</sentence><sentence id="545">But Americans are the most generous people in the world is beyond question.</sentence><sentence id="546">But they are also naive, so they would ask us questions like uh, "You see this--this is bread.</sentence><sentence id="547">Did you ever eat this before?"</sentence><sentence id="548">You know kind of thing--I mean it's mind-boggling.</sentence><sentence id="549">And that puts us on the defensive.</sentence><sentence id="550">So we would say, "Oh, sure, we had it good on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>," and uh we were a little bit--what should I say--snotty kids.</sentence><sentence id="551">Anyway so we had this <span class="DLF">fence</span> that prevented us from going <span class="NPIP">outside</span> and that bothered us a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="552">And this was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">military camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="553">There was uh ample opportunity for sports and uh food uh like we hadn't seen before.</sentence><sentence id="554">I mean quantities, you know.</sentence><sentence id="555">We were just coming from the hungry Europe, so life was pretty good.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="572">Q: Was it run by the American military?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="574">A: Uh, no.</sentence><sentence id="575">What they did--this was put under what they called War Relocation Authority," They " The War Relocation Authority was charged with administering <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Fort Ontario</span> under the overrall created a unit called Emergency Refugee Shelter under the War Relocation Authority which was part of the Department of the Interior.</sentence><sentence id="576">This is the very same group that interned the Japanese during the war, if you are familiar with that story.*</sentence><sentence id="577">Well, anyway, they were in charge of us.</sentence><sentence id="578">The, the military brought us over to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>, but then it was handed over to the War Relocation Authority.</sentence><sentence id="579">And they had a civilian administrator that was appointed by this unit, uh by the Authority.</sentence><sentence id="580">Uh, it was a very democratically-run organization.</sentence><sentence id="581">One thing they did teach us was democracy at its best.</sentence><sentence id="582">You know, we elected representatives and we were voting on everything from uh what kind of menu we were going to have to uh who was going to do what, uh, we even were required to take jobs, you know, the grown-ups, not--the kids went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="583">That, that was a well-organized uh little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> of one thousand people.</sentence><sentence id="584">Uh...</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="597">Q: What were the living conditions like?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="599">A: The living conditions were <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> which were boarded up to fit family units.</sentence><sentence id="600">In other words, they would take one large <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> and sub it into maybe three or four units.</sentence><sentence id="601">For instance, there was five of us.</sentence><sentence id="602">My mother, father and myself and two sisters.</sentence><sentence id="603">And we were given two <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span> and uh they had <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sink</span>, one <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sink</span>.</sentence><sentence id="604">You know they had put in some <span class="DLF">plumbing</span> in there and uh we uh had no problems with that.</sentence><sentence id="605">The only thing that bothered some of us was the snow.</sentence><sentence id="606">It would pile up ten ten feet high, you know.</sentence><sentence id="607">I had come from <span class="DLF">Adriatic coast</span> which even in winter it's a very mild climate, and here this was snow covers the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">ground</span> the end of September and you don't see the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">ground</span> until late April or early May.</sentence><sentence id="608">So, this was uh a little bit different for us.</sentence><sentence id="609">But I looked back on those two years that we spent there, uh a year and a half, as some of the very pleasant part of my youth.</sentence><sentence id="610">Uh in <span class="BUILDING">school</span> we, most of us excelled because we were really used to uh stringent demands on our academic performance, and we came to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> here and the only, the only difficulty that we had was learning the language.</sentence><sentence id="611">Well you learned the language under total immersion in six weeks, you know.</sentence><sentence id="612">So we were doing pretty good and we made friends with some local people.</sentence><sentence id="613">Not too much because simply we were not allowed to go in and out.</sentence><sentence id="614">We just go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and back.</sentence><sentence id="615">And later they would give us passes; Saturday afternoon we could go to a local movie, but heck, they had movies <span class="NPIP">inside</span> for us, you know.</sentence><sentence id="616">Only, maybe not first-run movies but there was something going on every night recreation-wise.</sentence><sentence id="617">It was really a pleasant life all around. . .</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="637">Q: Did it turn out that most of the people there were Jewish?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="641">A: Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="642">There was, out of a thousand people when after all was said and done, some dropped out so there was about nine hundred and ninety-two people," I would say nine hundred and fifty were Jewish and the thirty or so, forty were not.</sentence><sentence id="643">But we had people from I forget how many <span class="COUNTRY">countries</span>, seventy <span class="COUNTRY">countries</span>.</sentence><sentence id="644">They were from all <span class="NPIP">over</span>.</sentence><sentence id="645">Oh, that was an interesting thing.</sentence><sentence id="646">You want to make an announcement like they would say there's going to be a movie tonight - and they would come and you have to say it first in German, because I guess German was the most widely understood language.</sentence><sentence id="647">And <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Serbo-Croatian</span> is the language of <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="648">And there was about three hundred people from <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="649">And logically so, because they, the route that people came, but uh, let's see, they, uh they were not too powerful I guess in our politicking within the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp but</span> there was Italian was spoken because we came from <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="650">Yiddish was a very prominent language.</sentence><sentence id="651"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Serbo-Croatian</span>.</sentence><sentence id="652">Uh there were a lot of Polish people that had left <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and gone to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, you know, through their uh water route from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.367" long="18.633">Danzig</span> and what not.</sentence><sentence id="653">And they spoke French and Polish and Yiddish.</sentence><sentence id="654">And uh it was like a United Nations walking on the <span class="DLF">streets</span> there, except for the kids who spoke English, and we tried not to speak our own languages.</sentence><sentence id="655">Anyway, that's, in a nutshell. . . .</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="671">Q: . .</sentence><sentence id="672">the Jewish life was there in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="675">A: Oh, in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> we had uh Jewish life of course.</sentence><sentence id="676">There were uh two <span class="BUILDING">synagogues</span>.</sentence><sentence id="677">Like anything else, you have two Jews; you have three different opinions.</sentence><sentence id="678">And we had one conservative and the other one was ultra-orthodox and uh we had uh services, regular services and we had a uh choir.</sentence><sentence id="679">I am pretty observant, I would say, and my family was, and uh I guess many people were not, so you knew there were always services at the <span class="BUILDING">Orthodox "Shul</span>" [<span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>].</sentence><sentence id="680">But ours was strictly Friday night or Saturday morning and it was a <span class="BUILDING">military chapel</span> and uh the way the <span class="DLF">chapel doors</span> were made they had crosses on them, so some people objected to worshiping there because they didn't feel comfortable with it.</sentence><sentence id="681">So they started their own, you know, internal, but it was, Jewish life was not restricted or not promoted any more than anywhere else, but we had, Jewish uh papers were coming from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">New York</span> and uh I would say in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> the life was absolutely, uh was not only congenial but it was conducive to uh culture, uh cultural development and everything else.</sentence><sentence id="682">Educational programs galore, you know.</sentence><sentence id="683">Recreation.</sentence><sentence id="684">It just uh, it was fantastic.</sentence><sentence id="685">Uh for some people who were professionals this was a delay in their advancement, but for me I was moving right along.</sentence><sentence id="686">I had finished fifth grade in <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>, and during the war like three years I hadn't gone to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, so five grades you don't retain very high education.</sentence><sentence id="687">So they put me here in seventh grade, and not only all that period that transpired that I didn't do anything academically but also I was with uh older people, so six months I was moved to eighth grade and in the next six months I was in the ninth grade and so I was getting what they called high honors and uh we were all pretty good.</sentence><sentence id="688">I wasn't the best.</sentence><sentence id="689">I mean there was, my friends, each one was competing who was going to do better.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="705">Q: We have just a few minutes left.</sentence><sentence id="706">Uh, is there anything specific that you remember, any</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="709">deg The official number was 982, 368 of whom were from <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="710">1 incident from your time with the Partisans uh that you would like to share, or anything else that you have not yet talked about?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="711">A: You know, let me see.</sentence><sentence id="712">There could be a few points.</sentence><sentence id="713">First of all, I--as we were talking earlier, I tried to remember--there there were some people who were uh compassionate and who were good and helpful and did something for us.</sentence><sentence id="714">For one thing, the neighbors who came in the middle of the night, knocked at the <span class="DLF">door</span> and told us about the Germans coming; how they knew it I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="715">I think they were connected uh with the local Nazi groups in some way.</sentence><sentence id="716">Uh the neighbors above us, they were strictly Nazis from way back, but anyway, these other people, they must have learned from them.</sentence><sentence id="717">They told us so, that may have saved our lives, my father's and mine.</sentence><sentence id="718">Also the Italian uh people whoever they were at the time, like if it weren't for them, I mean all these Jews who came from other parts of Europe that were saved, if it weren't for them I don't know how many more would have perished.</sentence><sentence id="719">Uh but there was an interesting episode uh during the Partisans.</sentence><sentence id="720">Uh, my father, I told you, he wasn't handling it too well; the work was hard and all that, but he had a bad experience uh one time.</sentence><sentence id="721">Uh, he's religious and every morning he would say his prayers.</sentence><sentence id="722">Well, uh he would go <span class="NPIP">outside</span> the <span class="DLF">farm</span> where we were living and do it, say it out loud, his prayer, and he would cover his head with a kerchief, and he would put it around his ears to hold the kerchief like this, and a farmer must have seen him, and he reported [him] to the Partisans.</sentence><sentence id="723">Now to put it in the perspective, there was a lot of problems with uh people uh, I mean the Partisans were never safe because somebody would report them to the Germans and they would come and, you know, the, the spies were all over, so this peasant thought that he was uncovering somebody that was talking.</sentence><sentence id="724">He looked at my father and he noticed the ears.</sentence><sentence id="725">There was a a hanky over his head, so he reported him and they came and took my father away, and this was a <span class="BUILDING">kangaroo court</span> kind of thing, and uh they say, "OK, admit that you were talking on the earphones and reporting to Nazis."</sentence><sentence id="726">He said, "I'm Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="727">What do I need to tell them?"</sentence><sentence id="728">And they said, "Comrade Danon, we know everything.</sentence><sentence id="729">We know it all.</sentence><sentence id="730">It's been told to us so you can't hide it anymore.</sentence><sentence id="731">Admit it.</sentence><sentence id="732">It will be easier on you."</sentence><sentence id="733">And this is the thing that broke the camel's back I guess, the straw that broke the camel's back, but there were incidents like that.</sentence><sentence id="734">Uh a few of them you know, and that's why he left.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="759">Q: He just ran away at that point?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="761">A: Sort of, yeah.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="763">Q: Can you tell me anything about how the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jewish community</span> coped with all these refugees coming in?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="765">A: Oh yeah, that was interesting.</sentence><sentence id="766">Uh, the, all these refugees that were coming in--at first they were on their own, but then later many of them just had no means of uh support, I think the international uh Jewish uh community stepped in, and I think it's B'nai B'rith was one of the groups.</sentence><sentence id="767">Another one was uh Societe IsraC/lite Mondiale--something like that--from <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="768">They were uh sending uh some money to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jewish community</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Split</span> to distribute.</sentence><sentence id="769">Third way was that the people who were coming in, they were, we, our family 2 was assigned two different families that would come and get their lunch.</sentence><sentence id="770">Uh, one family would come three times a week, and another one would come three other days a week.</sentence><sentence id="771">You know, in other words we would cook instead of for five people or six people, we would cook for eleven people.</sentence><sentence id="772">And uh that's how it worked.</sentence><sentence id="773">That's how some sustained themselves.</sentence><sentence id="774">Others had some, uh something that they had brought with them.</sentence><sentence id="775">Some had some gold coins and there would be a lot of trading and and some would go into some kind of business, uh business meaning that they would go to one <span class="BUILDING">store</span> and say, "What are you selling?</sentence><sentence id="776">Maybe you give me some samples," and they would go offer to another.</sentence><sentence id="777">I know one guy was uh taking peanuts and roasting them and making little bags and selling them, you know.</sentence><sentence id="778">And it was a meager existence, but they managed and of course this little support that they would get every two weeks and I remember there was once or twice that the money didn't come from <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>, so we, the locals, were asked to make a heavy contribution.</sentence><sentence id="779">Uh what is heavy, I don't know the numbers, but you know, enough so we can make the distribution at least until something comes from <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="795">Q: Where did these people live?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="797">A: Uh, that's the thing--some had families but uh after a while, you know, there's just no <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> and uh where the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> was, there was some--not <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, I'm sorry--where our club was uh the social club was, the social club was filled with uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">mattresses</span> and uh blankets and they slept on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floors</span> and I guess they would rent a <span class="DLF">farm</span> someplace and they would fill thirty, forty people in there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="799">Q: Thank you very much.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="801">A: You're welcome.</sentence><sentence id="802">I enjoyed talking to you.</sentence></p></dialogue>
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