Newsgroup: it.comp.console.playstation
Titolo: I knew it wouldn't last....

Hi All,
I knew it wouldn't last long.  The BBC2 re-run of Doctor
Who starting with JP has shown two stories and are now
moving on to Tom Baker.  I thought that the BBC were 
going to show all of the Jon Pertwee era except the
black and white ones.
So, does this mean that the BEEB are going to show
two stories of each Doctor and then stop? - Sounds
very similar to what they did some years back.
Oh well, I thought I would just have my little moan.
Bye,
Ben.
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 black and white ones.
Just of curiosity, did the BBC ever actually say what they were going to
screen?
It seems there's a lot of people upset at the moment, based on what they
*thought* would happen, as opposed to what they were *told* would happen.
Something for everyone to think about, perhaps?
RI


 very similar to what they did some years back.
Apparently they're showing Genesis (*sigh*) and then moving back to Robot
and then onwards in order.
They reckon Tom'll get better ratings than Pertwee apparently.
Not in my case. I wanted to watch Pertwee's first series so much...but I'm
not going to watch Genesis or Robot. I'll catch up with Ark if it's still
on by then....
JP
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on by then....
madness - the first couple of seasons are supposed to be an ongoing story,
and they are strongly connected in the first season.
Why can't they just show two unedited episodes per week? That way they'll
reach Genesis in six weeks. I find two episodes of Who is about right these
days (Armageddon Factor has entertained me over the last couple of nights
watching this on video)
Brax


 writes
<<Not in my case. I wanted to watch Pertwee's first series so much...but I'm not going to watch Genesis or Robot. I'll catch up with Ark if it's still on by then....
With all due respect, isn't that sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't live in the UK, so this doesn't directly affect me, but...)
Even if it's not the Pertwees you hoped to see, it's still terrestrial reruns of Doctor Who! If the ratings aren't what BBC2 hopes for, what are the odds they're going to blame themselves for showing the Tom Bakers instead of the Pertwees, as opposed to blaming the *fans* for not watching, period? 
"We showed them Doctor Who like they've been screaming for, what more do they want?"
"Um, they wanted Pertwees, not Tom Bakers."
"Pertwee, Tom Baker, who cares? It's all Doctor Who. Ungrateful little *********s...screw 'em, let's put something else on."
Tom Beck
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 little *********s...screw 'em, let's put something else on."
Couldn't have said in better myself.  But here in the states, we have
an expression : "Beggars can't be choosers".
The Overlord Of All That Is Evil
Paper clips are larval coat hangars.
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OT...do iU coMpriEnde a mE?
Cescolino Concentrato

 but...)
Well, yes, but I'm in Sweden at the moment anyhow and I've got Genesis and
Robot on video already so I'm not getting them taped again.
I'd watch Robot if I was in the country but I won't watch the yawn-fest
called Genesis again.
JP
--
------John Parkinson-------|----...@destiny.org.uk-------
 
http://www.destiny.org.uk
 | In the event of a fire don't
 
http://elseworlds.cjb.net
 |    be too proud to panic
---------------------------|------------------------------


Even if it's not the Pertwees you hoped to see, it's still terrestrial
reruns of Doctor >Who! If the ratings aren't what BBC2 hopes for, what are
the odds they're going to >blame themselves for showing the Tom Bakers
instead of the Pertwees, as >opposed to blaming the *fans* for not watching,
period?
As I understand it, whether i watch Doctor Who or not has no effect /at all/
on the ratings. I think the figures are calculated using a system where a
very small number of households have a TV monitoring device, and the figures
are multiplied up from that. Does anyone else have some more details on
this? I just remember this from GCSE Media Studies, and that was just one
lesson /years/ ago.
So, I'm going to dip into the episodes I fancy watching. I see the TV
episodes as for those who don't normally have access to the series, whether
they're fans or otherwise.
Brax
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The Day of the Daleks Convention Nov 2000 
www.phoenix50.com/daleks/


Another aspect of this. The BBC2 repeats were to feature specially
cleaned up and remastered episodes - as you'll have noticed. The quality
of Spearhead from Space was exceptional, and Silurians was much better
than either the video or UK Gold version - apparently there is now an
improved technique of using NTSC colour sources to recolour the
existing b/w stuff in the archives. And even better, all this was
available on digital which showed all in it's full glory. My guess is
that such would lead to re-release of videos and, even better, DVD's.
Sadly, the funding allocated has probably now dried up as the stories
aren't going to be broadcast. I was looking forward to seeing the
improved colouring process for Terror of the Autons and The Daemons...


In a message dated 1/26/00 1:54:12 PM, 
Brax...@dellah.freeserve.co.uk
 
writes:
<<As I understand it, whether i watch Doctor Who or not has no effect /at all/
on the ratings. I think the figures are calculated using a system where a
very small number of households have a TV monitoring device, and the figures
are multiplied up from that. Does anyone else have some more details on
this? I just remember this from GCSE Media Studies, and that was just one
lesson /years/ ago.
So, I'm going to dip into the episodes I fancy watching. I see the TV
episodes as for those who don't normally have access to the series, whether
they're fans or otherwise.>>
I didn't mean to literally imply that whether or not a fan on drwho-l watches 
the Tom Baker reruns would directly affect the ratings. I know how ratings 
are calculated. I also know (to reply to Paul Rhodes's earlier post) that 
there are probably not enough real fans (even in the UK) to provide 
acceptable ratings for BBC 2. (Not sure about that, though - 9 million people 
watched the '96 TVM over there, a proportion of the population that would 
produce about 40 million viewers over here - and nothing short of the Super 
Bowl does that kind of rating in the US anymore...)
This is more of a philosophical meandering. We love DW and have wanted to get 
it back on the air for how long? So (whether or not in response to our 
wishes) BBC 2 puts it back on - but because it isn't the exact set of eps we 
were hoping for, we're going to boycott? Sorry, doesn't make much sense to 
me. Regardless of its practical effect.
Tom Beck


I don't mean to be the antagonist here, but isn't it pleasant enough that
the BBC even remembered the show existed?  I mean, c'mon...don't we have
videos?  Books?  Don't we have the Pertwees available to us at the touch of
a remote control?  And yet again we moan on and on when we don't get EXACTLY
what we want.  
I think I brought this up once before, but cult purists of the show
complained incessantly when it was on the air (continuity errors and other
reasonably insignificant things).  The BBC, the show's producers, they caved
in to the wishes of a small amount of people.  What happened?  The ratings
dropped and it was gone.  And here we are again.  But what if?  What if
someone who had never seen the show watches Genesis of the Daleks and
instantly becomes a huge fan?  Would it matter if it were Genesis or The
Curse of Peladon?  No, it really wouldn't.  There would be one more of "us",
one more person to join this list, one more person to further interest in
this fantastic show.   
If one little boy or girl catches Doctor Who on BBC2 and falls in love with
it, causing them to find all the videos, books, bells and whistles...then we
all have nothing to complain about.  One more person adds up in the end. 
Maybe not to the ratings people, but to me it means everything.
Sorry for the soapbox (I'm American, even) but I had to get it off my chest.
Jack
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 last couple of nights watching this on video)
We watch one a night, mostly because it makes them last longer. But some
stories are best watched episodically (HORROR OF FANG ROCK for instance,
despite being great, gets too repetitive if watched as a block), whereas
some are best watched in one go (like PLANET OF EVIL, which doesn't have
the meat to sustain itself for long; in fact, like FARSCAPE, it's better
watched while doing something else). The Beeb can't be expected to keep
adjusting the schedules to take this into account, though, so it has to
make a compromise and stick with that decision. While an episode a week
is frustratingly slow, it's the way they were written to be seen. Also,
of course, it makes the run last longer, which is probably a good thing
from their point of view.
Love and hugs,
Matt
xx
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 to screen?
The BBC website explicitly stated they were beginning a "complete rerun"
of the Pertwee stories. (Although presumably they would have dropped the
incomplete ones.) Always seemed something of an odd choice to me though,
as being grounded on Earth drops most of the sci-fi element that people
associate with Doctor Who - and /everyone/ knows it's Tom that gets the
ratings. As do daleks, of course, hence jumping onto Genesis to try to
claw back some of the viewers that interminable shots of Jon Pertwee in
climbing gear has slowly killed off. Honestly, seven-parters, who'd have
'em?
I have the entire twelfth season except ROBOT and SONTARAN EXPERIMENT so
I have mixed feelings about the change of schedule. On the one hand it
means I can complete the season - ah, that feeling of anal-retentiveness
fulfilled - but on the other, it means weeks and weeks of stuff I know
too well. This won't stop me watching it, of course, and at least I'll
no longer have to fret about remembering to set the video. (Seven weeks
of this, and I ended up missing half of the final episode of SILURIANS!)
Still, with luck they might keep going long enough for me to see MASQUE
OF MANDRAGORA, which I've never seen.
Final thought: fanboys are irritated because they all know Tom's stories
too well. But this is because they're largely the best, and it therefore
makes sense to show the damned things. Let's face it, only the masochist
subset of BBC viewers will have sat through the whole of SILURIANS. Many
more will watch and enjoy GENESIS, and the rest of the run. Makes sense
to me.


improved colouring process for Terror of the Autons and The Daemons...
Brax


me. Regardless of its practical effect.
I would tend to agree with you on that first point, but I think you've
misunderstood what myself and others have meant - I think it makes better
sense to show a run of Tom Baker stories, which I /might/ dip into each week
if it didn't clash with my lecture timetable (tuesday afternoons, 5-6pm) but
i don't really mind this. The repeats are more for those fans who cannot
afford (or find) a full set of the video releases and don't have UK Gold
access, together with all those nonfans who enjoy the series.
It is for others that i am pleased that the series is on terrestrial TV
again, not for me.
So it is not a case of me (and I guess many others) boycotting the BBC2
repeats, but more a case of being spoilt by years of UK Gold multiple reruns
and video releases.
Brax
---
time is an illusion that vanishes when deadlines approach
Eye of Orion issue five, details at 
www.dellah.freeserve.co.uk
The Day of the Daleks Convention Nov 2000 
www.phoenix50.com/daleks/


In a message dated 1/26/00 8:59:27 PM, 
Brax...@dellah.freeserve.co.uk
 
writes:
<<I would tend to agree with you on that first point, but I think you've
misunderstood what myself and others have meant - I think it makes better
sense to show a run of Tom Baker stories, which I /might/ dip into each week
if it didn't clash with my lecture timetable (tuesday afternoons, 5-6pm) but
i don't really mind this. The repeats are more for those fans who cannot
afford (or find) a full set of the video releases and don't have UK Gold
access, together with all those nonfans who enjoy the series.
It is for others that i am pleased that the series is on terrestrial TV
again, not for me.
So it is not a case of me (and I guess many others) boycotting the BBC2
repeats, but more a case of being spoilt by years of UK Gold multiple reruns
and video releases.>>
Okay, but the first person I replied to earlier today was saying *he* was not 
going to watch the Tom Bakers because he only wanted to see the Jon Pertwees. 
And my point was, that attitude, if widespread enough, could lead to BBC 2 
canceling the entire series of repeats.
I didn't mean it literally, however. One viewer makes no difference. And who 
am I to tell anybody what to do?
If I could get a channel showing Doctor Who, I'd watch as much of it as I 
could, even if I'd seen it all or even if I hated whatever ep they were 
showing, simply because I haven't been able to see it in so long (almost 6 
years now). That's just me, however...
Tom Beck


 of the Pertwee stories.
Did it say they would be shown in sequential order?


were hoping for, we're going to boycott?
As with your "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comment, you're
equating not watching with "boycotting" it. I don't think anyone's advocated
that - but if people don't want to watch Genesis (which actually I don't
mind seeing again) or Robot (which I really can't be bothered with), why
should they?
Paul
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years now). That's just me, however...
I know how you feel.
We only subscribed to CableTV in 1997, and for that seven years of satellite
broadcasting of Doctor Who i was sick with all those who complained about
adverts and a network logo 'spoiling' a story, at least they /could/ watch
Doctor Who (that whole BSB Weekend in 1990 I just kept on looking at the
time and thinking 'I want to watch The Dominators!')
Us British residents should count ourselves lucky that we /can/ watch Doctor
Who on terrestial TV.
Brax


Doctor Who on terrestial TV.
I count myself lucky I have a steady job and a roof over my head. But I'd
still like to have a bigger house.
Paul
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

 'em?
Like six-parters, ehh? Umm, how many episodes is Genesis?


 We'll get to see those cleaned-up prints soon.
IMHO BBC Video has never had the resources to do this - but
the repeat season included the necessary funding. Presumeably
this isn't going to happen now.


 Sorry for the soapbox (I'm American, even) but I had to get it off my chest.
Then it's quite likely that you have actually had a far better
chance of seeing re-runs than we in Britain have. Do you know how
*long* it has been since many of the stories have been shown on the
channel that made them - at our expense??


Tom,
I completely agree. Right now the only way I can see the show is to buy the 
videos. It isn't televised in LA. And back in Cleveland, when I was still 
there, they took it off after McCoy finished his run. Man I would love to be 
able to have a routine schedule of who to watch. Instead I have to save my 
pennies so I can buy a new video. And what's the deal with people complaining 
about Genesis, I just got it for my birthday and I totally got my ladyfriend 
into the show.
You just don't know what you got until it's gone people.
Kevin


 Like six-parters, ehh? Umm, how many episodes is Genesis?
Six. So.
Honestly, seven-parters, who'd have 'em?
Love and hugs,
Matt
xx
--


Hi
For those of you interested episodes 2 & 3 of Genesis will be shown back to
back as they did with eps 1 & 2 of Spearhead.
Probably the best way to show them I feel.
Cheers
Pat
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this isn't going to happen now.
surely they wouldn't release DVDs without cleaned up prints?
That would look awful!
No - they /must/ be cleaning the prints of these stories.
Brax
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