Newsgroup: it.hobby.cucina
Titolo: Pizza napoletana

Per voi e' sinonimo di pizza bassa o di pizza alta?
-- 
  Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano 

 Per voi e' sinonimo di pizza bassa o di pizza alta?
media?

 media?
E come estremi, ovvero bassa e alta, che cosa consideri?


 Per voi e' sinonimo di pizza bassa o di pizza alta?
alta 

 E come estremi, ovvero bassa e alta, che cosa consideri?
alte certe pizzacce spacciate per napoletane che si possono mangiare in 
altitalia ( che bel termine desueto altitalia)  bassa ï¿œ la romana. Alta 
anche ï¿œ la pizza catarï¿œ hai presente? LOL

 Alta anche � la pizza catar� hai presente? LOL
LOL si. Non l'ho specificato ma pensavo di restare sulle pizze da pizzeria, 
escludendo quelle al trancio e quelle "in scatola".
PS - la Catari' non la mangio da secoli, ma non me la ricordo cattiva. 
Chissa' come la troverei adesso...


 -- 
Disciplinare
http://www.emiliocella.com/?primo=PIZZA%20NAPOLETANA&secondo=48

 
http://www.emiliocella.com/?primo=PIZZA%20NAPOLETANA&secondo=48
Quel "per voi" era inteso proprio come "per voi", ovvero secondo te e' alta 
o bassa la napoletana?
Per te che sei di Napoli probabilmente e' .... normale. Azzeccato?
Per me che sono di RE, dove quasi tutte le pizzerie sfornano pizze spesse 
non piu' di 3-4 mm (cornicione ovviamente escluso), la napoletana e' alta, e 
mi sa che sia lo stesso per molte parti d'Italia. Volevo sentire le 
opinioni.


 non piu' di 3-4 mm (cornicione ovviamente escluso),
anche nel disciplinare della napoletana, lo spessore centrale � di 3mm,
che fa la differenza, oltre alle caratteristiche di consistenza, � proprio 
il cornicione.
Riporto solo parte del disciplinare , per chiarire, e che rispecchia la mia 
idea.
La �pizza Napoletana� STG si presenta come un prodotto da forno 
tondeggiante, con diametro variabile che non deve superare 35 cm, con il 
bordo rialzato (cornicione) e con la parte centrale coperta dalla farcitura. 
La parte centrale sara' spessa 0,3 cm, il cornicione 1-2 cm. La pizza nel 
suo insieme sara' morbida, elastica, facilmente piegabile a �libretto�.

 piegabile a �libretto�.
Io a Napoli ci sono stato l'ultima volta circa 6 anni fa, e non ho
mai visto un cornicione alto "1-2 cm", sempre alti due o tre dita,
ovvero dai 3 ai 5 cm.
O le misure che riporti tu sono quelle della pizza prima di essere
cotta, o io sono finito da gente (due pizzerie diverse) che la
faceva troppo alta.


 Per voi e' sinonimo di pizza bassa o di pizza alta?
bassa, assaje - tuttavia basta avvicinarsi a sorrento perch� si alzi
considerevolmente 
-- 
de gustibus semper, s'intenda

  Vilco
Ragazzi ricordiamoci che l'impasto della pizza � un prodotto di lievitazione 
e quindi "Vivo" senza contare tutte quelle variabili che ci possono essere 
soprattutto nella cottura a legna. Non � che il pizzaiolo napoletano stia 
con il calibro a misurarne il bordo.
Carmine 

 
sante parole... Piuttosto quello che distingue la napoli da tutte le 
altre ï¿œ la consistenza ed il sapore. Sia che sia fatta al poolish sia 
con il criscito la napoli ï¿œ soffice ed elastica senza mai scadere nel 
gommoso. Profumata e cedevole meravigliosamente dolce nell'impasto  ha 
nella base la sua forza :rimanere morbida senza mai diventare moscia. I 
cornicioni sono da litigarseli con quei rammolliti che non ne mangiano 
mentre ï¿œ dal cornicione che si giudica una pizza perfettamente riuscita. 
Il cornicione perfetto ha delle piccole bolle di pasta sovarmatura ed 
una lievissima sensazione di crosticina croccante appena, Dentro ï¿œ 
soffice come una nuvola e letteralmente si squaglia  in bocca nonostante 
rimanga elastico a sufficienza da essere morso con gusto.

 gommoso.
bingo.
ale

 pizzaiolo napoletano stia con il calibro a misurarne il bordo.
Quoto tutto. Ma, ad occhio, quanto e' alta questa pizza al centro?


 considerevolmente
Quindi alta cosa significa per te, "sorrentina"?


 opinioni.
A napoli ci ho vissuto un paio di anni (bè a castellammare in verità),
e la piazza era mediamente... buona soprattutto. Credo che lo spessore
al centro dipenda molto dal pizzaiolo specifico e non ci sia una pizza
identica all'altra.
Vero è, però, che a napoli ho mangiato la migliore pizza e la peggiore
pizza della mia vita, quindi sposo la tesi di Luca quando parla di
consistenza e di sapore più che di dimensioni (hai provato la pizza al
metro per esempio?).
ale

 Quindi alta cosa significa per te, "sorrentina"?
la sorrentina media � una pizza napoletana tendente al focaccioide,
alticchia anche al centro, con un minore effetto gradino del cornicione,
dall'impasto di consistenza piu' friabile, meno elastico, mediamente
piu' grasso
pizze alte le chiamo focacce, alte almeno un paio dita e senza un
dignitoso cornicione :)


 (hai provato la pizza al metro per esempio?).
ci manco da... minchia una decina d'anni :D ma dal quel che mi ricordo
era troppo "alta" per i miei gusti


 rimanga elastico a sufficienza da essere morso con gusto.
poesia :D e quoto tutto, ovvio


 mentre � dal cornicione che si giudica una pizza perfettamente riuscita.
e vogliamo parlare dei cornicioni ripieni? :d


 azz, ti sei scelto il posto piu' bello e piu' brutto insieme :)
Guarda, ho dei ricordi nostalgici da paura di quel golfo (fino oltre
punta campanella, verso amalfi).
Tutti i giorni, la mattina presto via a caricare "l'acqua della
Madonna" da apposita fonte, poco oltre la stazione marittima, e poi si
salpava dalle 8 di mattina e si tornava a notte inoltrata.
Se Rosario era riuscito a fare la "fuitina" a casa, a Catania, tornava
con vassoi di cannoli che ci pappavamo a colazione davanti ai
faraglioni di Capri... bei tempi.
ale

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:1j7hutx.15dxrr6uc2jd0N%spam...@invalid.com...

se posso dire la mia ho trovato uno standard superiore ad Ischia, piuttosto 
che a Napoli. 

 bingo.
Does this help?
Pizza Napoletana
Here is the original document defining "Pizza Napoletana" for the EU. You
can buy the ingredients defined in the Pizza Napoletana specification at
the Forno Bravo Store.
MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE COMMUNICATION
Summary: Proposal of recognition of the Specialita' Traditionale Garantita
  "Pizza Napoletana"
Date: 24-5-2004
Declaration:
The Ministry of Agricultural received the petition to register the
classification of Specialita' Traditionale Garantita for the product "Pizza
Napoletana" as presented in the following Articles 1-13 of the regulation
(EEC) number 2082/92, from the association Genuine Pizza Napoletana and
from the association Pizza Napoletana, both headquarter in Naples, in order
to create this product classification, and to distinguish it clearly from
other similar products and to protect the consumer. We verify that the
petition of production has been requested in the Italian language and the
creation of the product obtained "according to the Italian tradition" and
will proceed with the publication of the text of the to methods of
production.
Department of Agricultural Food Product Quality and Consumer Protection
Division QTC III
via XX September n. 20
00187 Rome
Thirty days from the date of publication in the official Gazette of the
Italian Republic, the above-mentioned petition will be proposed to the
European Commission.
THE METHOD OF PRODUCTION OF THE SPECIALITA' TRADITIONALE GARANTITA "PIZZA
NAPOLETANA"
Article 1. Name of the product
The classification of"Pizza Napoletana STG" following the Italian tradition
and with the wording exclusively in the Italian language, is reserved to
the product made using ovens and from businesses dedicated to the
production of Pizza, defined as Pizzerias, and destined for the final
consumer, with specific features specified as follows:
The Method
"Pizza Napoletana" is a food preparation made from a base of risen dough
and cooked in a wood fire oven. The product is characterized both by the
ingredient, means and technologies of production. In the designation "Pizza
Napoletana" we define the following names: "Pizza Napoletana Marinara",
"Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra" and "Pizza Napoletana Margherita".
Article 2. Ingredients
The products that provide the base for "Pizza Napoletana" include wheat
flour type "00" with the addition of flour type "0" yeast, natural water,
peeled tomatoes and/or fresh cherry tomatoes, marine salt, and extra virgin
olive oil.
Other added ingredients can include, garlic and oregano for "Pizza
Napoletana Marinara" buffalo milk mozzarella, fresh basil and fresh
tomatoes for"Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra" and mozzarella STG or Fior
di Latte Appennino and fresh basil for "Pizza Napoletana Margherita".
Article 3. Method of Production.
The preparation of "Pizza Napoletana" includes exclusively the following
method of production used in a continuous cycle.
1) Preparation of the dough:
Blend flour, water, salt and yeast. Pour a liter of water into a mixer,
dissolve between the 50 and the 55g of salt, add 10% of the total amount of
flour, and then add 3g of hydrated yeast. Start the mixer, and then
gradually add 1800 g of flour until you achievement of the desired dough
consistency. Combining the ingredients should take 10 minutes.
Next, mix the dough at low speed for 20 minutes, until the dough forms a
single ball. To obtain the optimal dough consistency, it is very important
to control the quantity of water, such that the flour is able to absorb it
all. The mixture should be sticky, soft and elastic to the touch.
The characteristic"merceologiche" of the flour used for "Pizza Napoletana"
allow it to absorb from 50 to 55% of its weight in water to reach the
optimal "point of pasta." The resulting dough can be individualized by the
abilities of the individual pizzaiolo.
The preparation of the dough in the mixer should be done without causing
the dough to become warm.
2) Dough Rising:
First phase: remove the dough from the mixer, and place it on a surface in
the pizzeria where it can be left to rest for 2 hours, covered from a damp
cloth. In this manner the dough's surface cannot become harden, nor can it
form a crust from the evaporation of the moisture released from the dough.
The dough is left for the 2 hour rising in the form of a ball, which must
be made by the pizzaiolo exclusively by hand.
With the aid of a spatula, cut from the mixture into smaller portions,
which are then shaped onto a ball. For "Pizza Napoletana" the dough balls
must weigh between the 180 and the 250 g.
Second phase of the dough rising: Once the individual dough balls are
formed, they are left in "rising boxes" for a second rising, which lasts
from 4 to 6 hours. By controlling storage temperature, these dough balls
can then be used at any time within the following 6 hours.
3) Forming the pizza base:
Following the second rising, the dough ball can be removed from the rising
box using a spatula and placed on the cooking of the pizzeria, on a light
layer of flour to keep the dough from sticking to the work bench. With a
motion from the center to the outside, and with the pressure of the fingers
of both the hands on the dough ball, which is turned over and around
multiple times, the pizzaiolo forms a disk of dough that to the center the
thickness is not more than 0.3 cm (.11 inch), and a border that is not
greater than 1-2 cm (.4-.8 inch), forming a frame, or crust.
No other type of preparation is acceptable for the preparation of the
"Pizza Napoletana STG." Specifically excluded is the use of a rolling pin
and mechanical presses.
Features of the flour:
W 220-380
P/L .50-.70
G 22
Assorbimento 55-62
Stabilita' 4-12
Caduta E10 max 60
Falling number 300-400
Dry gluten 9.5-11%
Protein 11-12.5%
Features of the Dough:
Fermentation temperature
25C
Final PH
5.87
TA 0.14
Density 0.79g/cc (+34%)
4) Method: Assembling a Pizza.
Pizza Napoletana Marinara:
Using a spoon place 80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes in to the center of the
pizza base, then using a spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the
base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
In the same manner, scatter a pinch of oregano;
Chop a thin slice of peeled garlic, and add it to the tomato;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and
moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra:
Using a spoon place 60-80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes, or chopped fresh
cherry tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling
motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread 80-100g of sliced Mozzarella di Bufala DOP so that it forms a
connect lath pattern on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread on the fresh basil leaves;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and
moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
Pizza Napoletana Margherita:
Using a spoon place 60-80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes, or chopped fresh
cherry tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling
motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread 80-100g of sliced Mozzarella STG, or Fior di Latte Appennino to that
it forms a connect lath pattern on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread on the fresh basil leaves;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and
moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
5) Cooking:
Using a wood or aluminum peel, and a little flour, the pizzaiolo transfers,
the pizza using a rotary movement and a quick shake, on to the cooking
surface of the oven without disturbing the prepared pizza. The cooking of
the "Pizza Napoletana STG" must be done exclusively in a wood fire oven
which has reached the cooking temperature of 485C, (905F), which is
essential to cook the Pizza Napoletana.
The pizzaiolo should monitor the cooking of the pizza by lifting up its
edge. Using a metal peel, the pizzaiolo rotates the pizza, changing the
edge that is facing the fire, and taking care to always replace the pizza
on the same spot on the cooking surface, to ensure that the pizza does not
burn because it is exposed to different temperatures.
It is important that the pizza is cooked in uniform manner across its
entire circumference.
At the conclusion of the cooking, the pizzaiolo removes the pizza from the
oven with a metallic peel, and places it on a flat, dry work surface.
Cooking time should not surpass 60-90 seconds.
After the cooking, the pizza should have the following characteristics:
The tomato should have lost all excess water, and should be dense and
consistent;
The mozzarella di Bufala DOP or the mozzarella STG should be melted on the
surface of the pizza;
The basil, garlic and the oregano will develop an intense aroma, and will
appear brown, but not burned.
The following temperature guidelines should be followed:
Cooking surface temperature: 800�F about.
Oven dome temperature:800�F about.
Cooking time: 60-90 seconds.
Temperature reached by the dough: 60-65C.
Temperature reached by the tomatoes: 75-80C.
Temperature reached by the oil: 75-85C.
Temperature reached from the mozzarella: 65-70C.
Article 4. Traditional character
The pizza, as represented by a base of dough on which you can place food
and which functions as a plate, has been present in various forms in the
excavations of almost every known ancient civilization. The term "pizza"
was first used in Italy in 997 in the Codex cajetanus of Gaeta.
The true "Pizza Napoletana" as it has come to be know in Naples, a base of
dough that is covered with tomatoes was born after a specific historical
moment: the discovery of the America, in 1492 by Cristoforo Colombo. It was
the Genoan navigator that carried the tomato plant to Europe. In 1596 the
tomato plant was exported to Naples from the Spain, where it was first used
as an ornamental. The first historical documentation of the use of tomatoes
in the cooking is found in "Gallant Cooking" (Naples - And. Raimondiane
1733) by Vincenzo Corrado, the chef to Prince Emanuele of Francavilla. The
same Corrado, in a following treaty on the foods most commonly used in
Naples, declares that the tomato was used for preparation of pizza and
macaroni, helping create two products for both the good fortune of Naples
and the history of cooking. We can take these as the first official
appearance of the "Pizza Napoletana" a base of dough covered with tomato.
The first pizzerias, without doubt, were born at Naples and until the
middle the 1900s; pizza was an exclusive product of Naples and of its
Pizzerias. Since 1700 there were shops in Naples called "pizzeria" The fame
of the Naples pizzeria began to grow when the king of Naples, Ferdinando of
Bourbon, broke with the norm of the times, by entering the more renowned
pizzerias to experience the traditional dish. From that moment, the "pizza"
was transformed into a restaurant exclusively for the preparation of the
"pizza".
The pizzas most popular and famous in Naples are the"Marinara" created in
1734, and the"Margherita" created in 1796-1810 as an offering to the Queen
of Italy during her visit to Naples in 1889. The colors of pizza (tomato,
mozzarella and Basil) remember the flag of the Italy.
Over time, Pizzerias have sprung up all around Italy and abroad, but each
of these still finds its roots in the surroundings of Naples. And they are
all bound with the term "Neapolitan pizzeria" in that they all recall in
some manner their connection with Naples, where for almost 300 years this
product has remained unchanged.
In May 1984, virtually all the old Napoletani Pizzaioli came together to
draw up the method for the Pizza Napoletana, which was signed and
officially recorded by the notary Antonio Carannante of Naples.
Article 5. Features of the final product
a. Description of the product:
"Pizza Napoletana" STG is presented as a product from the oven, round in
shape, with a variable diameter than it should not surpass 35 cm, (14
inches), with the edge raised (crust), and with the central covered by the
ingredients. The central of the pizza base will be 0.3 cm, (.11 inch
thick), with crust 1-2 cm (.4-.8 inch). The pizza should be soft, elastic,
and easily foldable into a "booklet".
b. Appearance: "Pizza Napoletana" STG is characterized by a raised crust of
golden color -- a definite product from oven, soft to the touch and to the
mouth. The ingredients framed in the center of the pizza by the red one of
the tomato are perfectly blended with the olive oil.
Marinara, the green of the oregano and the white one of the garlic;
Pizza Margherita, the white one of the mozzarella browned all over, and the
green one of the basil in leaves darkened from cooking.
The consistency should be soft, elastic, and bendable. The product is
presented soft to the slice, with the characteristic flavors, a crust that
presents the flavors of well-prepared and baked bread, the mixed flavors of
the tomatoes, the aromas of the of the oregano, the garlic and the basil,
and the flavors of the cooked mozzarella. The pizza, as it emerges from the
oven, delivers the characteristic aroma -- perfumed and fragrant.
c.   Chemical Analysis
Pizza Napoletana STG Tipo Marinara
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g
Kcal/100 g
Kjoule/100
Carbiodrati
25.48
102
432.4
Proteine
4.04
16.16
68.5
Lipidi
3.48
31.31
132.8
Valore energetico/100 g
149.47
633.79
Pizza Napoletana STG Tipo Margherita
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g
Kcal/100 g
Kjoule/100
Carbiodrati
19.31
77.26
327.58
Proteine
8.05
32.21
136.6
Lipidi
7.39
66.56
282.21
Valore energetico/100 g
176.03
746.39
Pizza Napoletana STG Tipo Margherita extra
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g
Kcal/100 g
Kjoule/100
Carbiodrati
19.31
77.24
327.5
Proteine
8.32
35.28
149.58
Lipidi
8.39
75.52
320.2
Valore energetico/100 g
188.04
797.28
Article 6. Storage
The Pizza Napoletana should be consumed immediately, straight out of the
oven, at the pizzeria. If the pizza were removed from the pizzeria to be
eaten later, it would not longer carry the mark of a true"Pizza Napoletana"
Article 7. Signage and Brand
The pizzerias that are certified to produce true a "Pizza Napoletana" STG
can display the logo described below:
The logo contains a profile of the gulf of Naples with Mount Vesuvius in
red, along with a pizza containing the essential ingredient. A green border
encircles the graphic. Under the graphic the text states Pizza (in green)
Neapolitan (in red), where the acronym STG appears in white in the second
bar of the letter N.
Article 8. Monitoring
Pizzerias wanting certification for the STG "Pizza Napoletana" will be
checked for the following standards: the correct methods and phases of
mixture, rising and preparing the dough, as described above; monitoring
closely the critical points (HACCP); verifying the usage of the ingredients
and the methods outlined above; verifying the right storage and use
ingredients (HACCP); checking that the pizzeria is following the structure
outlined in the previous articles.
14 of the regulation (EEC) n. 2082/92.
-- 
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families:  
https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
    Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops:   
http://anymarine.com/
   You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! !                 ~Semper Fi~                USMC 1365061

 che si occupi dei miei 'cornicioni' :-p
ci avrei scommesso :-)

 Per voi e' sinonimo di pizza bassa o di pizza alta?
Quanto è alta una "pizza alta"?
Lo chiedo perché non mi sembra di aver mai trovato tanta differenza 
nell'altezza della pizza da pizzeria, al limite l'ho trovata in quella a 
teglia da panificio che ho visto in spessori variabili da "ostia" a 
"materassino gonfiabile da mare".

 pensa alla pizza "media" e direi che napoli spacca per forza :) p
La pizza è un concetto statistico.

 piegabile a «libretto».
Io mi ricordo, prima dei cartoni, le margherite da portare via piegate 
in quattro, avvolte nella carta per alimenti e messe in busta.

 in quattro, avvolte nella carta per alimenti e messe in busta.
Se vuoi farlo qui a RE, a parte poche pizzerie che stanno sullo spesso devi 
chiamare il muratore, per piegarle in 4 senza sfasciarle.


 "ostia" a "materassino gonfiabile da mare".
Bella domanda. Ti diro', qui a RE moltissiem pizzerie ti servono un prodotto 
finito che ha uno spessore della parte centrale intorno ai 3 o 4 mm, di 
media, con cornicione che arriva intorno al centimetro o poco piu'. Proprio 
come in riviera romagnola, e quella e' la media, lo "standard" al quale i 
nostri pizzaioli ci hanno abituato. Poi si varia: proprio qui sotto, per 
esempio, c'e' una pizzeria (Lampada di Aladino, tutti napoletani) che la fa 
piu' sottile ancora, non e' difficile trovarsi davanti una pizza con la 
parte centrale alta sui 2 mm e un cornicione di mezzo centimetro (e io la 
adoro, anche perche' quella pasta ha un profumo e un sapore...). Qui a 150 
metri ce n'e' un'altra, il Canarino (napoletano), che invece sforna pizze 
alte quasi 1 cm con un bel cornicione sui 2-3 cm, e quella piza qui tutti la 
chiamano alta proprio perche' e' molto raro trovare in zona delle pizze alte 
altrettanto. Poi ci sono quelli che la fanno sullo spessore standard 
reggiano, cioe' 3-4 mm al centro a 1,5 cm di cornicione, ma se gli chiedi 
"me la fate alla napoletana?" ti portano una cosa realizzata con piu' pasta, 
col cornicione alto quei 4 cm e la parte centrale che sfiora il cm, e ne 
conosco tre che fanno tutte all'incirca cosi': l'Angolo di Napoli 
(napoletani), Amarcord (gestione reggiana e pizzaiolo tunisino...) e 
Stranamore (gestione calabrese e pizzaiolo napoletano).
Dalle vostre parti come stiamo a spessori medi? ecco, forse questa era la 
domanda che volevo porre inizialmente, grazie per la dritta.
PS ovviamente parlo della pizza da pizzeria, quella rotonda, non di pizze al 
trancio o mezzi metri, metri e altre divagazioni.


 La pizza � un concetto statistico.
e i concetti statistici sono una pizza :P
