Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.giapponese
Titolo: A Piergiorgo

Non sono una persona cosi' antipatica.
Questa volta ti parlerei di kanji in Korea, ma in inglese.
Korea is the country where the Cofucianism is preverved. Still its influence
is very strong. I would say that North Korea is not a country of sSocialism
but Confucianism. For a long time They had to study the Books of
confucianism and Chinese classics. To get a high position they had to pass
an exasamination for several hundread years.
In Korea, litteratures had been written in classic Chinese. When you look
for Korean classic litterature, you'll be surprised at poor quantity and
quality. Now, they are very proud of their letters "Hangul", however it's
only recently for them to use the letters. We cannot know how was korean
language of 500 years ago. They looked below the people who use Hangul.
In Japan 1000 years ago we had much harvest of novels, essays and diarys.
But, in Korea almost nothing.
Korean language doesn't belong to Chinese language family, however they
continued to use classic Chinese.
You can understand that Korean is a Kanji country.
I'll tell you next time why Koreans stopped to use Kanji.
Seiichiro

Do you know 科挙 (kakyo in Japanese) ?
It's an examination system to get intelligent officers widely from all over
the country.
The system began in 隋代 (Zui; I don't know Chinese pronunciation). It was
in the late 6th century.
Kakyo required knowledge of Confucianism. All who wished a good post in the
Chinese court had to study and memorize the Books. Kakyo required only
knowledge.
It was a miracle that such a system started in 6th century, while in Europe
ordinary people had no way to be an officer.
This system extended all over China. Korea learned the system.
In Korea too, to get prosperity and honor, it was essential to pass Kakyo
examination.
However, as you suppose, the Books are written in classic Chinese, only
wealthy family could give high education to their sons. Ordinary people
couldn't afford the Books. (to be continued)
Seiichiro
P.S. Sorry, Piergiorgo! I mistaked to write your name in the title.

Seiichiro SHISHIDO wrote:

Interesting thing.
I'm wondering if this kakyo system was ultimately inspiring the entrance 
exam system of Japanese school and University. And the similiarity of 
method of learning (study and memorize of books; can be broaded into a 
general school curricula) prompts me to think around this things. I study 
much the Japanese school and university system and the troubles around it 
in this years, and I think you give me an interesting topic to analyze.
Hope I rendered well my thinking. 
Generally speaking, you have definitively stimulated my very active brain.
Best regards,
Piergiorgio
P.s don't worry about your mispelling of my name; my surname is more 
difficult... ;)

 wrote in message
news:82jV9.8844$YG2.2...@twister1.libero.it...


 groups.
esnic -> ethnic
I know I should use my dictionary more frequently, but I want to write with
words in my brain.
Seiichiro

Today I tell you about what was going on in Korean peninsular in 7th
century.
There were three countires 高句麗(Ko^kuri in Japanese, Kokryo in Korean) in
North, 百済(Kudara , Pekche) in South-West and 新羅(Shiragi, Sinla) in
South-East. Sinla conquered other two countries and many Pekche and Kokryo
people escaped from the peninsular to Japan. From that time Sinla's language
became the language of Korean peninsular.
We don't know much about the languages of Pekche and Kokryo. It seems that
Pekche's and Kokryo's languages were near to Sinla's language. However, it
seems also that Kokryo's language had some relation with old Japanese.
After the fall of Kokryo, people went to the East sea shore of Manchuria and
build a country 渤海(Bokkai).
Bokkai had a trade center in Japan. Some documentations tells us that Bokkai
had some basic words in common with Japanese. After a huge explosion of
volcano, Bokkai disappeared soon.
(to be continued)
Seiichiro

It was in 1446 that Korea got its own letters, Hangul.
http://www.daizou.co.kr/profile_7.html
Korean litteratura began at this period. However, Hangul had been regard
vulgar and still in Korean court they used classic Chinese until the fall of
Yi dynasty.
http://www.daizou.co.kr/profile_17.html
(to be continued)
Seiichiro

Seiichiro SHISHIDO wrote:
Dear Seiichiro,
I'm following quetly your interesting lecture, and I'm interested.
I don't reply because I was busy writing my thesis (whose you can be 
interested: the title is "the Japan-american diplomatic relation in the 
interwar period."
Again, I'm interested in what you write, and when I find the time to reply, 
I reply surely.
Best regards,
Piergiorgio.

 wrote in message
news:x0SW9.25147$YG2.7...@twister1.libero.it...


I have many things to tell you about Korean language and culture, and it'll
help you to understand Japanese and Korean languages and culture.
However, today I talk you about Chinese language.
I don't speak Chinese. All I can speak are 謝謝(xiexie; thank you), 再見
(zaizien; good-bye), 不明白(puminpai; I don't understand) and several words.
When I look at a page of Chinese book, at first I don't understand it very
well. But, following the lines, I find some words that I know well, and I
can grasp what the page is telling me. When I read a novel, I understand
only a little. But, when I read scientific magazine, I understand better. It
is because there are many familiar words on the page. I can understand the
paper　人民日報(Renminribao). The page seems a large pond and many stepping
stones are scattered for me not to drop into the pond. Most of these
stepping stones are, to tell the truth, JAPANESE. You don't know how much
influence Chinese has got from Japanese.
In 19th century, Japan needed to catch up European culture to protect Japan.
We learned many things from Europe. At that moment we didn't have much
vocabulary to understand European books. We created new words to translate
your books. These words smell Japanese, because they are sometimes out of
Chinese structure. We added new meanings to many kanji. China learned these
words from Japan.
Many Chinese students came to Japan. Among them, you see 魯迅(Ru Shen (I'm
not sure the spelling), the novelist), 孫文(Sun Wen) and many famous people
in Chinese history. Without Japanese books, they couldn't get new knowledge.
On Renminribao, there are 共産主義(Communism), 資本主義(Capitalism) and many
words born in Japan.
You see, Japan was the cradle for Red China.
Chinese learned new knowledge from Japanese book, therefore their thoughts
are biassed by Japanese point of view.
Seiichiro

I've supposed that many who read this newsgroup were annoyed at my lecture.
i wasn't annoyed at all.
regards,
s

 i wasn't annoyed at all.
... yyaahhhmmmwwwwnnnn !!!
Ronf, ronf, fiiiiiii ....
Ronf, ronf, fiiiiiii ....
bye

Will you be surprised if I say that current standard Chinese is creole?
Standard Chinese is called 普通話(Butung hua), and it is based on North
dialect.
Practically only people who live in the area more North than Beijin speak
Butunghua.
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~tetsunet/chinese/chlesson1.htm#rin
Standard Chinese has much influence from Manchurian. Manchurian belongs to
Ural-Altaic language family. It's grammatical structure is very similar to
Japanese.
Before, they called Standard Chinese "Mandarin". This is the point. Mandarin
comes from 満大人 (Man Taren) which means Manchurian officer. 100 years ago,
we could hear the beautiful Chinese pronunciation only in Manchurian
familes.
(to be continued)
Seiichiro