Newsgroup: it.sport.formula1.moderato
Titolo: Fatemi capire

Todt ha _veramente_ proposto (via fax) che ci siano 15.000 Km di test 
per ogni produttore di gomme?
Non poteva dire chiaramente: "noi facciamo quanti cazzo di test vogliamo 
e voi rompetevi pure le corna per ridurre i costi".
Forse non poteva dire cazzo e corna?



Io la vedo più come un "adesso anche noi abbiamo fatto una proposta,
così non potete più dirci che diciamo no e basta"...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 (o_        Vinci                     registered Linux User #276630
 //\         " Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent "
 V_/_                     Salvor Hardin, Foundation

 così non potete più dirci che diciamo no e basta"...
un plauso alla Ferrari per essersi almeno messa in questione.
Ora si può discutere (e non è poco quando c'è di mezzo la Ferrari...)
-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - 
http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 cosi' non potete piu' dirci che diciamo no e basta"...
Concordo.
Strano che c'abbiano messo cosi' tanto tempo...
ivan
-- 
By 1977 or so, PLATO was featuring real-time multiplayer dungeon games, 
not to mention real-time spacewar, IM, chat, email, netnews, and a host of 
other things we now take for granted. All this on high-resolution plasma 
panel terminals connected at 1200 baud to twin Cyber 6600 supercomputer. 
Now you understand why I was kicked out of Cornell for a year; PLATO was 
crack for computer nerds. (Robert Woodhead, co-creator of Wizardry)

 per ogni produttore di gomme?
con annesso pugno(tennis)tavolo di LCdM da Pechino...
-- 
Fluoredshift
"I miei valori sono piů forti di chi cerca di influenzarli". A. Senna
http://www.bloggers.it/filippofilippini/
 

 
OK, ma la proposta poteva essere formulata in maniera piu' esplicita, e 
cioe': noi facciamo 15.000 Km di test gomme, cioe' poco meno di quanto 
facciamo adesso, voi ne fate 15.000 tutti insieme, cioe' molti meno di 
quanti ne facciate adesso.
Cioe' e' come se il Milan dicesse: bene, per comprare i giocatori noi 
spendiamo 15 miliardi, voi, rimanenti squadre di serie A ne spendete 15 
tutte assieme.

così non potete più dirci che diciamo no e basta"...
Infatti, adesso è più difficile accusare la Ferrari di totale
insensibilità verso la questione costi, ma con la sua proposta il
"bidone" questa volta sarebbe rifilato ai gommati Michelin ...
E così sono serviti anche i fans del a-brigante-brigantemmezismo ... 
 :-D
Comunque, la giuliva risposta di Todt alla domanda:
"What will happen if your proposal is not accepted?"
ovvero:
"It's very simple: we will all be free to test how and where we like."
secondo me la dice lunga sullo spirito della proposta Ferrari:
basta sparare c*****e tentando di segarci le gambe con proposte
ridicole e morte già in partenza, tanto volendo stare su questo piano
(come in questa nostra proposta) siamo in grado di rispondervi a tono.
O parliamo seriamente o parliamo d'altro (per esempio come mandare in
pensione Zio Bernie ...).
(Applausi.)
Spark

 secondo me la dice lunga sullo spirito della proposta Ferrari:
Esattamente.

attacks and the
   rapidity with which they develop, hence they become pathetic and no
   longer resist. To fight each of the threats separately would be
   futile. Success can be hoped for only by fighting the technological
   system as a whole; but that is revolution not reform.
 
   131. Technicians (we use this term in its broad sense to describe all
   those who perform a specialized task that requires training) tend to
   be so involved in their work (their surrogate activity) that when a
   conflict arises between their technical work and freedom, they almost
   always decide in favor of their technical work. This is obvious in the
   case of scientists, but it also appears elsewhere: Educators,
   humanitarian groups, conservation organizations do not hesitate to use
   propaganda or other psychological techniques to help them achieve
   their laudable ends. Corporations and government agencies, when they
   find it useful, do not hesitate to collect information about
   individuals without regard to their privacy. Law enforcement agencies
   are frequently inconvenienced by the constitutional rights of suspects
   and often of completely innocent persons, and they do whatever they
   can do legally (or sometimes illegally) to restrict or circumvent
   those rights. Most of these educators, government officials and law
   officers believe in freedom, privacy and constitutional rights, but
   when these conflict with their work, they usually feel that their work
   is more important.
 
   132. It is well known that people generally work better and more
   persistently when striving for a reward than when attempting to avoid

latter problem is the
   more difficult of the two. For example, while the techniques of
   educational psychology doubtless work quite well in the "lab schools"
   where they are developed, it is not necessarily easy to apply them
   effectively throughout our educational system. We all know what many
   of our schools are like. The teachers are too busy taking knives and
   guns away from the kids to subject them to the latest techniques for
   making them into computer nerds. Thus, in spite of all its technical
   advances relating to human behavior the system to date has not been
   impressively successful in controlling human beings. The people whose
   behavior is fairly well under the control of the system are those of
   the type that might be called "bourgeois." But there are growing
   numbers of people who in one way or another are rebels against the
   system: welfare leaches, youth gangs cultists, satanists, nazis,
   radical environmentalists, militiamen, etc..
 
   162. The system is currently engaged in a desperate struggle to
   overcome certain problems that threaten its survival, among which the
   problems of human behavior are the most 

developments that have grown out of the industrial-technological
   system. Other such developments we mention only briefly or ignore
   altogether. This does not mean that we regard these other developments
   as unimportant. For practical reasons we have to confine our
   discussion to areas that have received insufficient public attention
   or in which we have something new to say. For example, since there are
   well-developed environmental and wilderness movements, we have written
   very little about environmental degradation or the destruction of wild
   nature, even though we consider these to be highly important.
 
  THE PSYCHOLOGY OF MODERN LEFTISM
 
 
 
   6. Almost everyone will agree that we live in a deeply troubled
   society. One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of
   our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can
   serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern
   society in general.
 
   7. But what is leftism? During the first half of the 20th century
   leftism could have been practically identified with socialism. Today
   the movement is fragmented and it is not clear who can properly be
   called a leftist. When we speak of leftists in this article we have in
   mind mainly socialists, collectivists, "politically correct" types,
   feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and
   the like. But not everyone who is associated with one of these
   movements is a leftist. What we are trying to get at in discussing
   leftism is not so much a movement or an ideology as a psychological
   type, or rather a collection of related types. Thus, what we mean by
   "leftism" will emerge more clearly in the course of our discussion of
   leftist psychology (Also, see paragraphs 227-230.)
 
   8. Even so, our conception of leftism will rema

or manipulation, and by
   organizations other than the government, or by the system as a whole.
   Most large organizations use some form of propaganda [14] to
   manipulate public attitudes or behavior. Propaganda is not limited to
   "commercials" and advertisements, and sometimes it is not even
   consciously intended as propaganda by the people who make it. For
   instance, the content of entertainment programming is a powerful form
   of propaganda. An example of indirect coercion: There is no law that
   says we have to go to work every day and follow our employer's orders.
   Legally there is nothing to prevent us from going to live in the wild
   like primitive people or from going into business for ourselves. But
   in practice there is very little wild country left, and there is room
   in the economy for only a limited number of small business owners.
   Hence most of us can survive only as someone else's employee.
 
   74. We suggest that modern man's obsession with longevity, and with
   maintaining physical vigor and sexual attractiveness to an advanced
   age, is a symptom of unfulfillment resulting from deprivation with
   respect

is really committed to the revolution, but this
   minority is sufficiently large and active so that it becomes the
   dominant force in society. We will have more to say about revolution
   in paragraphs 180-205.
 
  CONTROL OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR
 
 
 
   143. Since the beginning of civilization, organized societies have had
   to put pressures on human beings of the sake of the functioning of the
   social organism. The kinds of pressures vary greatly from one society
   to another. Some of the pressures are physical (poor diet, excessive
   labor, environmental pollution), some are psychological (noise,
   crowding, forcing humans behavior into the mold that society
   requires). In the past, human nature has been approximately constant,
   or at any rate has varied only within certain bounds. Consequently,
   societies have been able to push people only up to certain limits.
   When the limit of human endurance has been passed, things start going
   rong: rebellion, or crime, or corruption, or evasion of work, or
   depression and other mental problems, or an elevated death rate, or a
   declining birth rate or something else, so that either the society
   breaks down, or its functioning becomes too inefficient and it is
   (quickly or gradually, through conquest, attrition or evolution)
   re

110. Still, one has to use common sense in applying the principles.
   They are expressed in imprecise language that allows latitude for
   interpretation, and exceptions to them can be found. So we present
   these principles not as inviolable laws but as rules of thumb, or
   guides to thinking, that may provide a partial antidote to naive ideas
   about the future of society. The principles should be borne constantly
   in mind, and whenever one reaches a conclusion that conflicts with
   them one should carefully reexamine one's thinking and retain the
   conclusion only if one has good, solid reasons for doing so.
 
  INDUSTRIAL-TECHNOLOGICAL SOCIETY CANNOT BE REFORMED
 
 
 
   111. The foregoing principles help to show how hopelessly difficult it
   would be to reform the industrial system in such a way as to prevent
   it from progressively narrowing our sphere of freedom. There has been
   a consistent tendency, going back at least to the Industrial
   Revolution for technology to strengthen the system at a high cost in
   individual freedom and local autonomy. Hence any change designed to
   protect freedom from technology would be contrary to a fundamental
   trend in the development of our society.
 
   Consequently, such a change either would be a transitory one -- soon
   swamped by the tide of history -- or, if large enough to be permanent
   would alter the nature of our whole society. This by the first and
   second principles. Moreover, since society would be altered in a way
   that could

of life than
   modern man is. It is true that not all was sweetness and light in
   primitive societies. Abuse of women and common among the Australian
   aborigines, transexuality was fairly common among some of the American
   Indian tribes. But is does appear that GENERALLY SPEAKING the kinds of
   problems that we have listed in the preceding paragraph were far less
   common among primitive peoples than they are in modern society.
 
   46. We attribute the social and psychological problems of modern
   society to the fact that that society requires people to live under
   conditions radically different from those under which the human race
   evolved and to behave in ways that conflict with the patterns of
   behavior that the human race developed while living under the earlier
   conditions. It is clear from what we have already written that we
   consider lack of opportunity to properly experience the power process
   as the most important of the abnormal conditions to which modern
   society subjects people. But it is not the only one. Before dealing
   with disruption of the power process as a source of social problems we
   will discuss some of the other sources.
 
   47. Among the abnormal conditions present in modern industrial society
   are

a thousand years ago. These similarities
   are the result of a common technology. . ." L. Sprague de Camp, "The
   Ancient Engineers," Ballentine edition, page 17.
 
   The lives of the three bank clerks are not IDENTICAL. Ideology does
   have SOME effect. But all technological societies, in order to
   survive, must evolve along APPROXIMATELY the same trajectory.
 
   19. (Paragraph 123) Just think an irresponsible genetic engineer might
   create a lot of terrorists.
 
   20. (Paragraph 124) For a further example of undesirable consequences
   of medical progress, suppose a reliable cure for cancer is discovered.
   Even if the treatment is too expensive to be available to any but the
   elite, it will greatly reduce their incentive to stop the escape of
   carcinogens into the environment.
 
   21. (Paragraph 128) Since many people may find paradoxical the notion
   that a large number of good things can add up to a bad thing, we will
   illustrate with an analogy. Suppose Mr. A is playing chess with Mr. B.
   Mr. C, a Grand Master, is looking over Mr. A's shoulder. Mr. A of
   course wants to win his game, so if Mr. C points out a good move for
   him to make, he is doing Mr. A a favor. But suppose now that Mr. C
   tells Mr. A how to make ALL of his moves. In ea