Newsgroup: italia.firenze.discussioni
Titolo: Il sorpasso?

  Charlemagne
Mediterranean rivals
Nov 2nd 2006
 From The Economist print edition
Spain, long one of Europe's also-rans, is about to join the big league; 
Italy is going in the other direction
BOTH have centre-left coalition governments. Both are committed to 
European integration. Both are firm supporters of the draft European 
Union constitution. Both have low fertility, high immigration and 
declining competitiveness. And both are Latin, Mediterranean and used to 
taking siestas.
But now Spain and Italy are converging in a new way. For much of the 
past decade Spain's economy has been growing at around twice the EU 
average. At this rate, officials beam, Spain will surpass Italy in terms 
of GDP per head by 2009. If you account for the black economy (Italy 
does, Spain does not), Spaniards might be richer already. Yes, such 
claims should be treated with scepticism: in the mid-1980s, Italy 
boasted loudly and prematurely of overtaking Britain. But Spain's 
economy is already as big as Canada's (which is, like Italy, a G8 
member). And if you add in demographic trends—an immigration boom is 
more than offsetting a shrinking native population—then the prime 
minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, is surely right to assert that 
Spain will soon join Britain, France, Germany and Italy in the club of 
Europe's big five countries.
Spain's new prosperity is the product of long preparation. Compared with 
other big European countries, Spain has a less generous welfare state. 
Unlike Italy, it has marginalised its Communist party, which has no base 
in the trade unions. Trade unions are moderate: they have accepted 
flexible short-term labour contracts, which French unions resist 
fiercely. But when compared with Italy, two features stand out. One is 
the Spanish preference for single-coloured, enduring governments, 
despite a proportional voting system that favours regional parties. The 
second is a deep-seated respect for fiscal orthodoxy. Budget discipline 
was built into the post-Franco settlement of 1976. And the Socialist 
Party abandoned Marxism and adopted a “third way” as long ago as 
1980—years before Tony Blair.
The two features are closely related. Spain tends to have longer-lived, 
solid governments; Italy has shaky coalitions. Between them Italy's two 
biggest centre-left parties took some 30% of the vote in April's 
election and needed nine other parties to secure a majority. Spain's 
Socialists got over 40% of the vote and fell just a dozen votes short of 
a majority on their own. The Socialists can play minor parties, mostly 
regional ones which (a) share the state religion of good housekeeping 
and (b) want more regional power, off against each other. If it needs 
to, the ruling party can drum up regional support by offering devolution 
that does not compromise fiscal austerity.
The contrast is especially sharp right at this moment. Both Spain and 
Italy are in the process of pushing their annual budgets through 
parliament. But in Spain, says Francisco Fernández Marugán, the 
Socialist deputy whose job it is to shepherd the budget through the 
lower house, the coalition partners will add no more than €500m ($625m) 
to a budget of around €300 billion. In Italy the government agreed a 
spending plan unanimously at cabinet level. But when it went to 
parliament, there were 7,000 amendments, of which no fewer than 3,000 
came from the ruling coalition. In Italy party and budget discipline 
alike seem unknown. In Spain they reinforce each other.
Of course, not everything is rosy in the garden of Spain. The fiscal 
situation is worse than it looks because two-thirds of public debt, 
attributable to regional governments, is not accounted for. Compared 
with Italy, Spain has few internationally competitive small firms. It is 
overly dependent on construction and is “enjoying” a housing boom. As a 
result, says José Luis Feito, at the employers' federation, the economy 
is highly vulnerable to higher interest rates, which are likely to be on 
their way.
Like Italy, Spain is stuck with high-cost, low-productivity businesses 
that are vulnerable to Chinese competition; poor schools; and low 
spending on research and development. Moreover, the political deal by 
which regional parties support economic stability may be limited. Spain 
has the most devolved political system in Europe outside Belgium; at 
some point the Madrid government, especially the finance ministry, will 
conclude that it has gone far enough (and is costing enough).
 From disaster to top table
Overall, however, economic success has produced a change in the public 
temperament of a country comparable only with that of Germany after the 
second world war, says Pedro Schwartz, a professor at the San Pablo CEU 
University in Madrid. For most of the 20th century, after defeat in the 
Spanish-American war of 1898 (known in Spain as “the disaster”), 
everybody's favourite topic was “the problem of Spain”. Italy was the 
model of a modernising Mediterranean state. “Spain is different”, as a 
tourist slogan of the 1960s used to put it.
Now Spain has self-confidence on steroids. Spanish companies are on 
acquisition sprees, first in Latin America, now in Europe. Two of 
Europe's top ten business schools are in Spain; Zara, one of the world's 
fastest-growing retailers, is based in Galicia. Spaniards no longer feel 
different; they want to be European. They showed it by being the first 
to vote for, and overwhelmingly approve, the EU constitution.
This new self-confidence will have consequences both for Spain and for 
its neighbours. For itself, because confidence makes it easier to 
sustain economic growth and stability: people sense that it works. For 
the neighbours, because Spain has long been regarded as an effective but 
marginal EU member—effective at defending subsidies, but only a 
medium-ranking power, on a par with Poland or the Netherlands. Its 
emergence as an equal to Italy and even France will give it a seat at 
the top table. If there is ever a core Europe or a pioneer group, Spain 
will be in it.
Its success was partly driven by EU cash, partly by Spain's 
determination to live up to European standards. But now that success 
will itself change political weights within the union.

 Italy is going in the other direction
Guarda ieri stavo "zappando" col telecomando e per caso ho inciampato in 
France 2 che, come Rai International, ha uno spazio di un tre quarti d'ora 
tutte le sere.
Varie notizie, poi la voce del giornalista inizia un nuovo servizio dicendo: 
"ITALIE"...
Ho pensato: "ah che bello, parlano un po' dell'Italia" (queste cose come ben 
sai fanno piacere, all'estero)
Segue un documentario di almeno 5 minuti sui morti ammazzati a Napoli, 
immagini di cadaveri sanguinanti,
di vicoli sporchi e panni stesi dai balconi, di finestre coi vetri rotti, di 
gente in 3 su un motorino, di un panorama della citta' che ricorda le 
favelas di Rio.
Il commentatore ripete spesso sia la parola "camorra" che la parola "mafia", 
e dice che in quel rione li' il 90 per cento della popolazione lavora per il 
crimine organizzato.
Il servizio si chiude con la faccia *sorridente* di Prodi appena arrivato a 
Napoli a dire che ha un piano per fermare le uccisioni.
Insomma, tra economia e problemi sociali, questa e' l'immagine attuale 
dell'Italia all'estero.
saluti

 dell'Italia all'estero.
Attuale? A me risulta che siano almeno cent'anni che quella è l'immagine 
dell'Italia all'estero. ;-)
-- 
Claudio ICQ:150632298 MSN:ck72it (at) yahoo (dot) com
"Da qualche parte c'è qualcuno, per il quale nessuno ha votato, che 
spinge perché il mondo giri sempre più alla svelta, perché gli uomini 
diventino sempre più uguali in nome di una roba chiamata 
<<globalizzazione>>  di cui pochi conoscono il significato e ancor meno 
hanno detto di volere."
Tiziano Terzani "Un indovino mi disse"

 dell'Italia all'estero. ;-)
Come è ben noto a tutti è dal giugno 2006
che esiste la camorra, prima napoli era il
paese del bengodi. se sapevi il contrario
o ti hanno informato male o ricordi fischi
per fiaschi.


il problema si è aggravato negli ultimi anni

> il problema si è aggravato negli ultimi anni
hai detto bene, negli ultimi anni non negli ultimi 4 mesi.
comunque questa frase:
And both are Latin, Mediterranean and used to
taking siestas.
dimostra quanto il giornalista conosca l'italia.

 dimostra quanto il giornalista conosca l'italia.
Un luogo comune con un parzialissimo (per entrambe le penisole) fondo di
verità(*).  E' vero anche che in moltissimi casi si lavora il doppio che in
Francia o Germania, anche se spesso è sintomo di cattiva organizzazione.
(*) Siamo giusti: certi stereotipi noti all'estero riguardano difetti
nazionali che tra noi vengono stigmatizzati liberamente. Quando ne parlano
gli stranieri invece entra in azione quel poco di patriottismo che ci
rimane.

 per fiaschi.
...o sei comunista disfattiscta che ce l'hai col governo berlusconi. :-)))


 boasted loudly and prematurely of overtaking Britain.
molto di quello che è stato scritto è vero ma personalmente prenderei
con le molle qualsiasi cosa scritta dai britannocentrici FT e
Economist, sempre pronti all'ironia sui paesi latini e in special modo
il nostro.
Un piccolo saggio:
http://www.economist.com/surveys/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5164061
Il vero problema è la competività di tutto il sistema europeo se il
massimo dell'iniziativa è portare al 2% del Pil dell'Unione europea
l'investimento in formazione e ricerca entro il 2010, contro l'1,28% di
oggi. 
2%!!! 
Ciao a tutti.