Newsgroup: italia.firenze.discussioni
Titolo: Scandal, strikes and senseless violence

Dal blog di un'Americana che vive ad Atene, un racconto dei fatti di 
questi giorni che aiuta a capire quella realtà.
Ho letto il thread "Lo Speciale e il Ragazzino", e mi sento di 
sottoscrivere tutto quello che ha scritto tommyover.
Come non auguro a nessuno di voi di avere un figlio ucciso (né dalla 
polizia, né da nessun altro), allo stesso tempo non auguro a nessuno di 
voi di vivere un paese in queste condizioni:
Scandal, strikes and senseless violence
December 7, 2008 at 18:00
The last days have seen another scandal surface and a spike in crime 
that includes kidnapping, hostage taking, protests, riots and a shooting 
in the Greek capital. Add to that a general strike come Wednesday, and 
there’s good reason to dread the upcoming week without it even being 
Monday. That’s life in Greece.
Unrelated events started Wednesday night with arsonists damaging the 
Bosnian Embassy and an ATM in Halandri (northern suburb of Athens); an 
explosive detonating at a luxury car showroom in Alimos; and a bomb 
exploding at the Agence France-Presse (AFP) office in central Athens, an 
act claimed by the Conspiracy of the Cells of Fire.
On Thursday, arsonists used explosive devices to damage Ministry of 
Environment and Public Works offices at different locations in Athens 
(Panoromou and Exarcheia) within 25 minutes of each other. In 
Thessaloniki, Diavata Prison Governor Constantinos Tsourelis was beaten 
by assailants who stormed the lecture hall at Aristotle University, one 
of many incidents involving professors and lecturers being assaulted at 
several universities around Greece.
The pace picked up on Friday, with a group of Athens Medical School 
students holding Deputy Health Minister Giorgos Constantopoulos hostage 
for a half-hour. Why? He refused to discuss reforms that would result in 
graduates working the first six months of their careers without pay. 
(Boo hoo! Meanwhile, students worldwide serve as unpaid interns in 
exchange for valuable real-life experience, usually after paying for 
their own education and going into serious debt). It also came to light 
in yet another scandal that a nun from the Emmaous Monastery defrauded 
customers, and a doctor in Varkiza was robbed and kidnapped.
Saturday started innocently, with a peaceful climate change rally around 
noon by a large contingency showing support for a serious issue. 
Forecasters predict life in Greece will eventually resemble north Africa 
based on uncontrolled construction, large highways and tourism, combined 
with wasting natural resources and lackluster measures to reuse, recycle 
and create renewable energy.
At dusk, a riot by asylum seekers broke out when a man fell into a canal 
after authorities announced that further applications would not be 
accepted — similar to the incident that occurred in October when a man 
was killed. Although some media sources blame migrants for the unrest, 
this riot lasted only a half-hour, it fizzled, and there were no injuries.
We all know what happened after that. Instead of a busy night of 
gift-giving and celebrating the many people named after St. Nicholas the 
pious Wonder Worker, Saturday was marked by a group of teenagers who may 
(or may not) have attacked a police car, an innocent boy being shot and 
killed, (this is the video) and the youth of Athens using a lull in 
rioting to recruit more rioters through the Internet, which escalated 
and spread violence throughout Greece, even as the government pleaded 
for calm.
Now it’s Sunday, and the violence continues. Buildings are on fire, 
livelihoods are in ruin, tear gas makes it difficult to be on the 
street, and there have been electricity and telecommunication cuts. But 
that still isn’t enough — we’re about to enter our third day.
Have any of these self-proclaimed anarchists hooligans/hoodlum/youth 
stopped to think about the ‘why’ behind their actions? Were any of these 
youths (policemen and protesters) taught logic and reason by their 
parents? What has violence accomplished? And more importantly, what’s 
the point? I understand too well the feeling of hopelessness and 
disconnection, but mass destruction is not the answer and two wrongs 
don’t make a right. It is a senseless tragedy and my condolences go out 
to the murdered boy’s family, but more violence solves nothing and will 
not bring him back.
People sell Greece as a safe country, yet stats show that incidents of 
kidnapping, bombing and violent crime are on the rise. People claim that 
residents in Greece “work to live” and have more entertainment options 
than those in the United States, Australia and Canada. But if that’s 
true, why do the majority appear bored and use that time to sloth 
around, shop and consume, nurse a drink/coffee for 4 hours, not exercise 
and use any excuse to riot? If only people put as much time into 
critical thinking, productive work and implementation as they do into 
hypocritical complaining, grandstanding and destruction.
Violence of any kind has a domino effect on Greece’s economy. It starts 
with the innocent mom-and-pop businesses that can’t stay open during an 
organized march or strike; or worse, have property vandalized, damaged 
or burned to the ground during a riot. Profits go down, expenses and 
insurance rates go up, rent doesn’t get paid, costs are passed to the 
consumer, consumption goes down, the business cuts back or closes, 
conglomerates owned by the rich get richer, unemployment goes up, more 
people fall below the poverty line. The symbols of capitalism so loathed 
by these youth only grow more powerful at their hands.
And when Greece makes international headlines with mass strikes, 
wildfires and violent protests, this affects tourism’s bottom line and 
puts a lot of people off for different reasons, which in turn harms the 
Greek economy and creates more challenges for everyone who lives and 
works in the so-called cradle of Western civilization.
* P.S. Greece can kiss entry to the U.S. Visa Waiver Program goodbye, 
but of course the United States will be faulted and blamed (yet again) 
for being anti-Greek.
Warning
If you are in the center of Athens or any Greek city besieged by 
violence, be aware that tear gas and pepper spray can linger for several 
hours and cause irritation to your nasal passages, eyes and throat. 
Please do not be a ‘riot tourist.’
http://livingingreece.gr/2008/12/07/greece-scandal-strikes-violence-riots/

 by these youth only grow more powerful at their hands.
ROTFL
questa cretina deve essere parente tua,
Adesso la crisi economica è colpa del ragazzino che s'è fatto sparare
-- 
Gehrig
"L'inverno sta arrivando" 

 polizia, né da nessun altro), 
Io mi auguro che nessuno di noi, e nessun ragazzino, abbia un padre come 
te. Quasi meglio finire sparati dalla polizia.

 a nessuno di voi di vivere un paese in queste condizioni:
Oddio, detto da uno che considera Pinochet un salvatore
della patria cilena...


rispondo qui a tutti e quattro.
ognuno è libero di pensarla come crede, ma non è insultando me o chi ha 
scritto l'articolo che le vostre idee acquistano più credibilità.
ho postato questi due articoli, perché insieme (secondo me) danno l'idea 
di quale sia la situazione in Grecia, e di quale essa fosse prima della 
morte del quindicenne.
nessuno vorrebbe che certe cose accadessero, ma il fatto che accadano 
non è, sempre a mio avviso, una buona ragione per abolire la polizia o i 
corpi speciali.
i corpi speciali non sono stati creati per uccidere degli innocenti, e 
se venissero aboliti non credo che le tensioni sociali che generano 
violenze di piazza sparirebbero, anzi...
suppongo che polizia e corpi speciali ci siano in tutto il mondo, e che 
i regimi addirittura li usino contro il popolo. ma ci sono anche le 
polizie dei paesi democratici e di quelli ancora più civili che, corpi 
regolari e speciali, sono ben accette dalla popolazione, e non eccedono 
dai loro compiti.
ho letto che in Grecia la polizia per legge non può entrare nelle 
università. e che di conseguenza i campus sono una zona franca per 
coloro che organizzano le violenze.
ecco, l'articolo racconta proprio due fatti avvenuti la scorsa settimana:
"In Thessaloniki, Diavata Prison Governor Constantinos Tsourelis was 
beaten by assailants who stormed the lecture hall at Aristotle 
University, one of many incidents involving professors and lecturers 
being assaulted at several universities around Greece."
"The pace picked up on Friday, with a group of Athens Medical School 
students holding Deputy Health Minister Giorgos Constantopoulos hostage 
for a half-hour."
lascio a voi la definizione corretta di quelle situazioni: se sia 
anarchia, autogestione, occupazione o cos'altro. di sicuro nessun 
"Speciale" ha potuto impedire quelle violenze.
un'ultima cosa per chi ha detto che la crisi economica sarebbe colpa del 
ragazzino che s'è fatto sparare: a volte si dice 'le opinioni separate 
dai fatti'; in questo caso sono le vostre opinioni separate sia dai 
fatti, che dal contesto, che dalle opinioni altrui.
in altre parole: ve la cantate e ve la suonate da soli.
fin lì nessun problema. solo che magari in futuro mi rinfaccerete di 
avere detto che la crisi economica in Grecia era colpa del ragazzino che 
s'è fatto sparare.
a Luca Logi sarà anche scappata in passato una frase infelice, che, 
magari estrapolata dal contesto, viene usata da altri per denigrarlo.
nel mio caso invece usate frasi e concetti che non ho mai scritto o 
espresso.

espresso.
Normale amministrazione per 2/3 soggetti qui dentro.
-- 
Tommaso
Difensore della Certezza Prematurata

 espresso.
Voi, noi, voi, noi... cheppalle.
Intanto TE leggiti i due paragrafi quotati, come pretendi che si faccia
un discorso serio con te? 


letti. e allora?