Newsgroup: it.discussioni.astrologia
Titolo: Ronald Reagan

E' morto ieri l'ex presidente USA Ronald Reagan.
Era nato a Tampico, Illinois (89W47, 41N38) il giorno 6/2/1911 ad ore 1.20

 Era nato a Tampico, Illinois (89W47, 41N38) il giorno 6/2/1911 ad ore 1.20
Astrodatabank di Lois Rodden indica come ora le 4:16, fornita da Patti Davis
che cita l'estratto di nascita.
Ciao.
Laura

 che cita l'estratto di nascita.
Considero senz'altro più affidabile Astrodatabank, documentata
dall'estratto di nascita, che il database del Cida da cui proveniva la mia
informazione.
Grazie per la precisazione.
Ciao
EB
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Ciao, Enzo.
La precisione delle ore di nascita e' sempre argomento piuttosto delicato e
controverso, ma, devo ammettere, spesso a complicarlo ulteriormente e'
proprio l'astrologo, non immune dalla tendenza, pressoche' irresistibile, di
rettificare l'orario anagrafico soprattutto quando, come per il personaggio
in oggetto, e' stato consulente di famiglia.
Allora, per dovere di cronaca, riguardo Reagan, ecco la nota completa che
compare in Astrodatabank (mi si perdoni se lo lascio in lingua originale,
essendo piuttosto lungo...)
"Sy Scholfield quotes a 1999  biography of Ronald Reagan, "Dutch: A Memoir
of Ronald Reagan" by Edmund Morris, New York, Random House, which  cites
Reagan's birth certificate for his birth time of 4:16 AM, p.14 and p.688;
copy of the biography in hand. As Morris wrote a semi-fictional biography to
which he admits making up footnotes to add veracity to his accounts,
historians have severly criticized his ten-year labor.  With this
information in mind, we may regard the birth data of Reagan with some
caution, if not skepticism.
(In prior efforts of the community to find this data, the time was rectified
to 3:43 AM by Joan Quigley, Nancy Reagan's astrologer, from family
information that he was born "early morning."  American Astrology March/1976
states that it has a questionairre returned from Reagan giving "early
morning."  AFA April 1968 quotes "a close friend of the family" for 1:20 AM
CST.  Doris Chase Doane in Dell Horoscope gave 2:00 AM CST: Doris said that
she and Carroll Righter had been using that chart for 40 years.  Angel
Thompson quotes a letter from his office, May/1980, that "the Governor was
born pre-dawn."  (Copy in hand)
Eve de Alberich called from Houston 4/08/1981 to report that she had talked
to Reagan's cousin (his mother's sister's daughter) who has kept family
records, and who said that she had no record of Reagan's time of birth but
it was early morning.  Eve called Doris Chase Doane who told her that 40
years ago Jane Wyman had a chart done for herself and her husband, Ronald.
She did not know the time so they used an arbitrary 2:00 AM, which Doane and
Righter had been using since.
Marion March, 11/1984, had a long discussion with the Reagan archivist who
figured the birth was between 4:00 and 7:00 AM from deduction.  March
speculated 5:04 AM CST.
The pre-dawn birth was rectified to 3:46 AM by Betty Marks in AFA 9/1980.
Jeff Jawer quoted Ray Merriman, from Katherine de Jersey, reputed to be
Nancy's astrologer, that "Reagan's ASC is 28 Scorpio," a time that computes
to 1:56 AM, "rectified from 2:00 AM given to Kraum years ago by Reagan."
LMR spoke to Katherine de Jersey on 7/07/1988.  Katherine said that she had
called Nancy's mom many years ago, who gave her Nancy's phone number.  She
called Nancy, who was cool at first, but then told her that "as closely as
they knew, Ronald had been born at 2:00 AM."
Van Courtland rectifies to  00:58:29 AM, given in MH Ext 4/1982.
Steinbrecher has a note from Vital Statistics Bureau, "The county office
won't give out the data without a court order.  We do know that Mrs. Reagan
had problems in delivery and there was a bad storm the night before."
A time of 2:00 PM is also widely used.  Joylyn Hill in MH 12/1975 quotes
Carroll Righter for 2:00 PM CST.  The same data was repeated by Pryor in AFA
10/1971 and Gallo in Celebrity Horoscopes.  Mayo in AFA 3/1976 rectified to
1:53 PM CST.  Hammitt in MH 7/1980 reported that "Cancer ASC was printed in
World Astrology 2/1941, by an excellent astrologer who sometimes does
speculative charts.  John Bradford says that the time of 2:00 PM came from
Adrianne Dunn, but the rumor persisted that Carroll Righter was Reagan's
astrologer.  Righter never gave out any data for any reason, but LMR reports
that a picture of Nancy and Ronald was among the pictures of public figures
on his grand piano, and he had a framed invitation to the presidential
inaugeration on the wall.
Frances McEvoy sends a clipping in 1/1987 that reported,"An 88-year-old man
in Boston, MA, claims to remember the day Ronald Reagan was born.  He said
that at a school assembly one girl was late as someone in her family was
having a baby and no one could bring her to school.  The baby was born that
afternoon and the birth was announced before the assembly was over."
Laura

Secondo le ultimissime informazioni messe on line da Astrodatabank,
all'indirizzo
http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/ReaganRonald.htm
Reagan potrebbe essere nato alle 8.35.
Ma non c'è da metterci la mano sul fuoco: l'unica cosa chiara che si evince
dalla relazione è che sul certificato di nascita di Ronnie non c'è ora
alcuna, perciò tutte le ipotesi sono possibili.
Saggiamente, gli eredi di Lois Rodden hanno pubblicato un tema domificato
per mezzogiorno e con la codifica DD (Dirty data) che, in altre parole,
significa "impossibile ottenere un'ora di nascita attendibile!"
GraZia

 Ma non c'è da metterci la mano sul fuoco
Diciamo pure che, a questo punto, l'unica cosa da fare è tentare una
rettifica dell'ora di nascita, sulla scorta degli avvenimenti più
significativi della lunga vita di Reagan, ed utilizzando ogni tecnica a
disposizione: direzioni primarie, direzioni secondarie, transiti,
rivoluzioni solari.
Ovviamente questo tipo di lavoro richiede moltissimo tempo, e gli esiti
sono tutt'altro che certi.
Qualche astrologo americano lo farà senz'altro. Non ci resta che
attendere...


A proposito di DD = Dirty Date, qualche anima buona mi puņ riepilogare le
codifiche usate nei database in relazione all'affidabilitą dei dati di
nascita, con i loro significati e/o modalitą di applicazione?
Grazie
-- 
Luciano D.
http://digilander.libero.it/drusetta
proponente di it.discussioni.astrologia
e di it-alt.fan.inti-illimani

 rivoluzioni solari.
Credo valga comunque la pena anche di segnalare la seguente nota, sempre
tratta da Astrodatabank:
"Now that Reagan has passed away, I have Joy's permission to reveal this
information, and to reveal her identity as well. She is retired now." Jim
attached correspondence from Joy Rippeth who said she got the time of 8:25
AM from Ronald Reagan himself and that she had advised him to be careful on
March 30-31, 1981. Note that Reagan was shot on March 30.
Al di la' del BC e delle rettifiche, forse questo e' un dato da non
sottovalutare. :-)
Laura