Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.italiano
Titolo: Bestemie

I was very surprised when I heard 'Bestemia' in Italy. I had not heard
that kind of expressions in any other languages.\
I tried to find a book on the matter but.... I guess because of laws
against it in Italy, there was no published work on the matter :(
Could you (Especially those living in Firenze near the Mercato :),
Email me any Bestemie-list you may have. Or, just write me the few
which you know personally.
Thanks.

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First of all, forgive my poor English. Moreover, I can't look at a
dictionary as I'm writing in the dark not to let mosquitoes in my
bedroom :-(
I don't think anyone is going to post a list of "Bestemmie"
(blasphemies?) in the NG, as they are far and away the worst possible
words in Italian.
Yet I think "Bestemmie" are an interesting subject, as I've found them
in Italian and Spanish only, and I really wonder why other languages
don't have such a feature.
As for the "few which I know personally", well, there are not many
ones, indeed. Mostly, they're made of a name like porco (pork) maiale
(pig) or cane (dog / bitch) used as an apposition to the name of God
(Dio), Jesus (Gesu', but much more often Christ, Cristo) or Mary
(always "Madonna").
In some places (as you said, in Tuscany, but in Umbria and
Emilia-Romagna too) - and in some social situations, i.e. drunken
lower class people - you may find many "original" bestemmie, but it's
kind of jokes: one can make up as many new bestemmie as he wants.
For instance,  once I heard this said by an elderly man - I hope it
won't annoy anyone: "Dio rauco spudorato!"
Now I don't know how to translate these words... "Rauco" is a man who
can't speak as he has a sore throat, and "Spudorato" is something like
"shameless", mostly referring to sexual habits.
So, you see: you can make up your own bestemmia, if you think it's
worth.
Ciao
Elrond
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Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

that kind of expressions in any other languages.\
no?  ask those who want to kill Salman Rushdie.  
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kind of jokes: one can make up as many new bestemmie as he wants.
I think this happens everywhere in Italy. Many people have their
"personal" blasphemies... My father (who doesn't like them) usually
says "dio carubul" (which means absolutely nothing) or "dio
catamarano", catamarano beeing the name of a kind of boat...
Bye,
Alessio


I was really confused by this answer..... These two are very different
subjects. One is an intelectual treatment of an issue which deals with
religious items in contempt, and the other one is something down to
earth and vulgar!
What I meant was that in the other languages which I am familiar with
(4 indo-european, 1 semetic, and one Altaic), I have never heard
a beleiver to say anything nasty about his own religion! I mean, the 
people in tuscany who use bestemie, are not the typical intellectual
atheists, but believing catholics. 
I hope I have not over-reacted ;)
Ciao,

atheists, but believing catholics. 
In all the three languages I know (Italian, Dutch and English) there
is a word which means "blasphemy" so the concept of blasphemy must be
known to the speakers of that language. 
But why do Italians use those blasphemies more than others? It could
be the ease to create new ones, but it could also be because of the
always strong presence of paganism (or some aspects of it) in the
country, or maybe because the Church has always been so strong in
Italy, making a blasphemy a kind of lamentation against the Vatican
not against God. 
Bye,
Alessio

that kind of expressions in any other languages.\
Perhaps you'll be even more surprised to know that in Italy
there is an association against blasphemy called: "Lega
italiana antiblasfema".
Ciao
  Sargon
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atheists, but believing catholics. 
Well, I spoke about Tuscany as you asked about it - indeed, it is
considered the most "blasphemous" region in Italy. I have even heard
people saying "bestemmie" during religious processions: the big and
strong men who carry heavy statues of Christ or the Saints are
sometimes cussing God's name during their effort - and they chose to
carry the statue, they were not compelled to, so thei faith must be
strong.
I think that "bestemmie" are the consequence of a particular ancient
Italian Catholicism, a traditional, "manly" and magic religion, in
which the Saints took the place of ancient pagan Gods in country
rituals. This kind of strong, popular and manly religion has been
rejected by the Church, that deals mostly with high theological or
social subjects, yet it is still alive among the people.
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italiana antiblasfema".
I'm quite surprised: is it really working? And what do they do?
BTW, some years ago I read about the "Festival Ateo" in Emilia-Romagna
or Marche: there were serious lectures about atheist culture but a
"blasphemous concert" too!
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"blasphemous concert" too!
All I know about it is a stick-on label I saw on the window
of a bus, years ago. The name of the association was: "Lega
italiana antiblasfema" or something like that.
OT.
I still remember the name of another Italian religious
movement: the "Ardente Gioventů Mariana". They came out to
fame about ten years ago after the strong attacks, on behalf
of the Catholics, against the French film 'Je vous salus
Maria' (?????). They went so far as to collect themselves
knelt down in prayer in front of a cinema in which the
blasphemous film was to be shown, to discourage people from
going into the cinema and stigmatize their sinfulness.
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