Newsgroup: it.comp.www.homepages
Titolo: WEB PAGE DESIGN AT COMPETITIVE PRICES.

Are you looking for someone to build you a webpage? Well look no longer.
Just E-Mail me or fax a description of what you want on your site and I
will return a free estimate ASAP. I have very competitive prices. If you
can find it cheaper tell me where and I will beat it. I specialize in
personal and small buisness sites.
--
-[[[ KYLE'S WEB DESIGN ]]]-
[ Web Page Design Service ]-[ 
http://home1.gte.net/kkniffin/
 ]
[ Ph: 
941-984-4693
 ]-[ Fax: 
941-984-8489
 ] 


-- 
Phil Bradley


Very well put! Unfortuantely it will still keep coming as long as there
is money to be made and HTML is so easy to learn yet so hard to master.
Perhaps more of these guys shopuld spend some time looking at sites (and
the source). 
-- 
            "What does not kill you makes you stronger"    
http://www.gate.net/~seiken/
 mailto:
sei...@gate.net
  Tim Murray

>personal and small buisness sites.
        Web page design (ie writing HTML) will soon be a skill that most
people can manage to do reasonably well (even me, I am trying). So it is
not worth paying anyone to do what you can learn for yourself.
        What is worth paying for however is the skill to design a page
which, bearing in mind the strengths and weaknesses of the web, can
manage to attract and hold the attention of prospective customers. This
means having a deep understanding of graphic design combined with an
awareness that this medium is fundamentally visually different from
static advertisements. For one thing it is expensive to access and time
wasting ads are unlikely to get a favourable response.
        A firm grasp of your client's business aims, his marketing
strategy, target audience etc. is also required.
        A thorough working knowledge of writing HTML, which just a tool,
is merely an incidental qualification.
        Of course, there will always be mugs around.
 
 
-- 
Paul Renouf
http://www.cozzle.demon.co.uk


-- 
        Electronic Publishing Consultant: CD-ROM, Networking, Internet, WWW.
            Author: Information Science, CD-ROM, Networking, Internet.
              Trainer: CD-ROM, Internet, Web Page design, Training.
 
http://www.philb.com/
 ***New*** 
http://www.philb.com/
 

Kyle Kniffin (
kkni...@gte.net
) wrote:
: Why do you criticize with out knowing the facts. For one. I am still in the
: process of working on mine. Second my customers amount of books is so
: little he wanted it set that way until he got all his books on and then it
: would be changed. 
Ummm Kyle?
	Just for the record, if you want to start a business, there are
much better ways of doing it.
	1} Ensure that your demo product looks and is really good.
	2} Ensure that anything you want to use as a reference or showcase
for your talents looks really good, and is something which you are proud
of.
	3} Don't yell at potential customers, it will piss them off.
 
	Now, I will admit that I haven't seen your page, so I can only go
by what Critic-Boy (I can't remember his name)and yourself have said.
That not withstanding (ooo, BIG word!), if his description is accurate,
then you aren't going to impress any customers and hence aren't going to
make any money.
	If your page is still under construction, then make sure you say
so, but remember that there are millions of webpage designers out there
and if you want to compete you're going to have to be top notch.  
	First impressions count!
: I do not see who gave you the right to criticize
: especially about something you know nothing about. but I guess some people
: just hav NOTHING beter to do.
He's a potential customer, he has all kinds of rights to criticize your
work.  If you are going to advertise it and display it, expect people to
look at it and expect them to look at it with a critical eye.  Also expect
them to express their views.
: P.S. I would love to have the link to your page to view this great web page
: that gives you so much right to criticize. And while your at it maybe get a
: life sense you have nothing better to do than criticize.
Remember: The wonderful thing about being a critic is that yo don't have
to be good at anything except for being good at pointing out what other
people did wrong!
	Kyle, my advice to you is this: Ignore his righteous tone and take
his criticizism as advice.  He's pointed out a bunch of things which are
wrong so fix them.  Make sure you're proud of your product and them by all
means, sell it to us.  But don't piss off the customers and don't get
overly defensive, it just makes you look petty...
On the other hand, I do like your use of the ord :"sight"  It's a great
pun and I use it al the time...
--
	  			  Take Air,
   there are them that could        Snowmit of the Loftie Mountain
   and them that couldn't	     Chief Technician, 
   and them that do	    	     Founder of Cootm
   who often shouldn't		     Truffles Like Him (shouldn't you?)
	"I hate broccoli, but in a way I am broccoli."
				-The Tick
     ___
   {~o_o~}     *****Needless Self-promotion*****
    ( ^ )         	
http://is2.dal.ca/~timmaly
   ()~:~() 	  *****High Discordian Weirdness On-a-Stick*****
   (_)-(_)
	Is this sig block too long?  ()yes  ()no ()just right


-- 
Tony Morgan

>that gives you so much right to criticize. 

I am very new to the art of web design. Like many other small business,
I took advantage of the "homepages" web space introduced last year by
demon for all dial up account holders. 
My first attempt at making a web site was done in pure html. This proved
to be a very steep learning curve as there was plenty to learn. This
page served me well for 4 months until I made a complete re-vamp of my
page using ms-frontpage.
My page is still in the development stage and there is more I wish to do
with it. This of course takes a lot of time. Time is one thing which I
am short on.
I aggree fully with phil with his critism. I have looked at some
professional web designers who make excactly the same mistakes as I do
ie spelling, formating and picture alignment! And a charge of £250 was
asked for the page concerned.
It seems to me that the person who offers "Web design at competetive
prices" could be a computer enthusiast with a program such as frontpage.
This seems like a very easy way to make some money.
If I was to pay for a service, I would expect the service provider (who
is in fact no differnt from an author of printed material) to have a
very good command of the English language, and be able to correct the
spelling and bad grammar supplied by clients like me who earn there
living in different fields than producing the written word. 
My thanks go to Phil for flagging up the mistakes in the advertisers
homepage. If you are selling a service, the sample product should be
perfect. My home page is far from perfect, but when it is, I will then
register the page on the search engines.
My page is 
http://atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk
No doubt some of you will go and have a peek. Any comments for
improvement (and identifying  the spelling miskates are always welcome)
regards to all
-- 
Mark Hawkins

>Kyle K.
Just to remind everyone that bear baiting was 
outlawed in Britain early in the last century. 
(and Kevin - the reason all this is being cross-posted into 
 9 separate UK groups is because you spammed those groups 
 in the first place)
-- 
Chris Ryall

regards to all
-- 
John Ferris                                         30 Hamilton ter.
jfe...@lamlash.demon.co.uk
                         Lamlash
http://www.lamlash.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm
         Isle of Arran, KA278LR

Chris Ryall   (Who has nearly forgotten May 1st)
I aggree with this, I think it is time to get off Kyle's back.
-- 
Mark Hawkins MRIN
Principal
Atlantis Sailing Ltd
*********************************************
When addressing email to atlantis, please use the following:
For the office: 
in...@atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk
For M Hawkins :   
m...@atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk
For H Chatwin :   
h...@atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk
For W Chatwin :  
hil...@atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk
web:  
http://www.atlantis-sailing.demon.co.uk

Okay, let's see you all knock up a page with CGI scripts, Cookies and
Dynamic pages (plus some Java and some VRML2.0, maybe something with a
Shockwave plug-in and perhaps some good JavaScript - from what I've seen
of his site, he can do some of the more interesting 'basic' stuff), then
you are good enough to criticise. If you can't, and the guy who started
the thread can - then shut up! :)
 
If the guy who started the thread can't do it himself, then what the
hell are you doing???? Check out 
http://www.xtml.co.uk
 for a company
that I think are pretty decent when it comes to web design. I've just
gotta get work experience there - I could learn something!
-- 
James "Don't call me Fluffy" Flacks
Spam Buster in operation.

if you really want help designing your own web pages go to 
sausage.com
download hotdog express
this is easy design but you can't load with it yet
-- 
Mike Nugent

       Is this sig block too long?  (y)yes  ()no ()just right
-- 
Mike Nugent

the thread can - then shut up! :)
<SNIP>
Fluffy,
Web design is a skill that requires the perpetrator (?) to have their
fingers in many different pies, but the most important pie must be
'design'. The Web was intended to be content oriented. Good design
skills include the understanding that presentation should enhance
content, not try and replace it. If a site can not inform, interest or
entertain a viewer, then no amount of the latest frills or gimmicks are
going to make that site any better. Anyone who is a good all-round web
designer deserves credit for their skills, anyone who advertises
themselves as a good web designer but can't justify their claims
deserves all the criticism they get.

Since this is the most informed and sensible thread I've seen in a
long while, might I take this opportunity to go rather off-topic and
ask what you do for clients when they ask you to weight their site so
that it pops up first in a search query?
BB


Your honesty is commendable. Too many folk can't design but think they
can.
BB

...

Boy!! Isnt that the truth!!!! 
CM