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Titolo: A Feast of Crows - un frammento di un capitolo

Ecco parte di un capitolo  ldi A Feast of Crows letto da Martin in occasione
di un forum....
Ovviamente ci sono moltissimi SPOILER SU TUTTI I LIBRI DI MARTIN DELLE
CRONACHE DEL GHIACCIO E DEL FUOCO!!!!
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New Chapter read at Bubonicon
The chapter read was from the Prologue. The Prologue will be seven chapters
long and will not feature any certain POV character. Nor are the Prologue
POV characters necessarily doomed.
The chapter that GRRM read today was from the point of view of the Captain
of the Guard for Doran Martell. Set in Dorne, near Sunspear and at Sunspear
itself. It contained much information on three of the Sand Snakes. We meet
Obara, Nym and Tyene. We also meet Myrcella and Aerys Oakheart in Dorne.
We hear specific plots in regard to revenge for Oberyn's death. The people
cry for vengance. There are conflicts among family members who want
vengance.
It will take a few hours to type up but it is good stuff - very well
written, just as well written as the previous books, or better. No skimping
on quality here.
I am going to let you go for now. I am going back to the Con. I will type up
my notes late at night this evening - or early this morning.
I arrived at Bubonicon in Albuquerque, where it is a beautiful 85F (maybe
about 30C) which is a wonderful change from the 105 and above in Arizona.
I like this con! The people here are friendly and unpretentious. Their
average age is probably 40+. I think that possible one person in every six
or seven is an active sci fi or fantasy writer. Parris tells me that New
Mexico has the highest per capita of writers of any state in the United
States.
Excitement built and at last I arrived for the reading! I met Danlo, a great
new GRRM fan who runs what sounds like a wonderful website that he has
described on another thread. It's a Donaldson site with a GRRM Forum which
BC7 is moderating.
GRRM had brought quite a few pages. Parris was there as well. What a joy to
meet her! She is an immensely warm woman who makes you feel as if you have
known her forever from the very beginning. Also, I think GRRM and Parris
have been together for many, many years. Yet they were extremely happy,
joking a lot, doing so lovingly. Really with great affection. I can honestly
say I have not seen a couple who have been together for as long as they have
who seem so excited about each other. They seem to find something "fresh" in
being together rather than being the least tired of each other. But
hey...these are my *impressions* based on a few minutes with them
GRRM explained, as I said above, that the chapter he would be reading was
one of seven from a Prologue of about 200 pgs in length. After hearing it,
it would not surprise me to learn that it is the first chapter in the
Prologue, or at least that it comes very early. This is because there is no
assumption, that I can recall, that the reader knows things regarding Dorne
which would not have been gleaned from previous books.
Disclaimers: First, I cannot guarantee that I am spelling the names of new
characters as they will be spelled in the book. I'm simply spelling them by
sound.
Second, I have not read the other spoiler threads. I like being surprised
when I read, or when GRRM reads aloud If folk don't mention what is on the
other spoiler threads in this thread, that would be cool with me. But if
someone forgets and mentions a spoiler from another chapter, hey, I can't
complain. This is a spoiler thread, after all.
Third, I could have misheard any of the details contained herein. But
hopefully I did not. And hopefully Danlo will be along to correct me if I
did and to fill in parts that I may have missed.
GRRM held a short question and answer session afterwards and I think I will
include what I gleaned from it here, before I start summarizing the chapter.
He is still writing AFFC. When he delivers it to his publisher, notice will
go up on his website immediately (So I would say please don't write him to
ask when it is coming out...that slows him down. ) The book will come out in
England 2-3 months after he delivers it to his publisher and in the States 6
months after (sorry other countries...I don't know when it will be coming
out for you ;( )
During Q & A, GRRM revealed what seemed to be the major reason for the five
year gap. He said that he realized something. He had to deal with the
reaction to Oberyn's death in Dorne. He thought of different ways that he
could handle things. He could have just summarized what happened, without
talking about it very much, but he did not want to do this. He could have
decided that for some reason there was no reaction, or a delayed reaction,
but the reasons he could come up for to do that did not make sense. So, he
finally realized that the story needed to be told.
Someone asked him what RR stood for and he said "my middle names". Of course
he has a great delivery so the room found that quite funny. He said he had
been writing professionally since 1971. When he checked into a hotel as
"George Martin" he was asked if he was the Beatles manager. I had never
realized their manager had that name, and that was one reason he kept the
RR. So much for folk who think he imitates Tolkien....
He was asked how he could remember all the details as he wrote several books
over the years, since things are so complex. He replied "Maybe I have a
trick head. I forget people in real life". Of course everyone understood. He
can't remember folks he sees at conventions, etc. (Well...erm...he
recognized me. Guess he has seen me enough ) He explained that it was
difficult because he had not done anything like this before and was now in
his fifties. Previously his longest work was a single 450 page novel.
An anecdote that I thought was funny, still on the subject of memory. GRRM
said that he sometimes forgets details, eye color may change, etc. He said
that his dutch translater once caught the fact that he changed the gender of
a horse. Heh. He said he was happy if he could just remember the horse's
name and color, and does not have organized charts which keep track of the
names of all horses.
And of course there are the people who want exact details. "They were long
on the road" was the example he gave. He said he keeps things like distance
and time deliberately vague. But someone would write inevitably write in and
ask "How long were they on the road?". He just does not have rules for
measuring the speed of a latent swallow, according to GRRM.
This is installment one and is based on 4 pages in my small notebook, out of
13 pages of notes I took.
The title of this chapter is "The Captain of the Guards"
"Bloodoranges well past ripe...". The imagery is from a setting near
Sunspear. "The Prince" is seated in a special chair which "The Captain" has
made for him, and the smell of bloodoranges fills the air. We learn that we
are seeing Prince Doran Martell, and his Captain of the Guard, Areo Hotah.
The setting is one of heat, within a palace whose tiles run into yellow,
orange and copper hues. Outside the sounds of children playing are
constantly heard. We learn many are the sons and daughters of great lords of
Dorne.
The drumbeat of hooves on the marble outside is heard. Ariel knows Obarra,
eldest of the sandsnakes, will be arriving, for he knows her stride. It is
said she can master any Dornish horse, or any Dornish man. She is the eldest
of the Sand Snakes, a big boned woman of about 30. A coiled whip is carried
on her hip and a copper shield is slung on her back.
Ariel tries to block the way to Obara but she will not have it. "Does he
know my father is dead?", she asks of Maester Caleotte, also present. It
seems Prince Doran is aware. "What will Doran do, what will his brother do
to avenge our murdered Prince?" , she asks.
The old Maester, no more than five feet tall, protests that Prince Doran
cannot be disturbed. But Obara must eventually see him. Elaria is bringing
home the body of the Red Viper. The people are crying out in the streets.
Some Dornish mourning customs are described, for instance, prostitutes not
charging for sex.
At last Doran sees Obara. He is a man ot two and fifty. His symptoms of gout
are described graphically. He tells Obara "by law, that is no murder" when
she says that Oberyn was felled in a duel. Doran is taking a more
conservative approach to the manner of reaction appropriate to Oberyn's
death. He feels silence is a prince's friend, that words are like arrows,
once unleashed, you cannot take them back.
We learn that Obara wants to march on Old Town, and that Doran has written
to Tywin. (GRRM mentioned earlier that some chapters in this book take place
before the final chapter of ASOS.)
Doran assures Obara that Tywin will deliver the head of Gregor, Oberyn's
killer. This does not content Obara. She wishes to pulls out the bowels of
the killer and search for gold, whilst singing "The Rains of Castamere".
Childhood descriptions are brought in. We hear something of the rough
childhood play of the Red Viper. We also hear of Obara's childhood. Her
mother was a prostitute. When Oberyn went to her after Obara's birth she
taunted that she had had 1000 men and that he could not tell Obara was his.
Obara picks up a spear and acts militantly in some fashion. "I told you she
was mine", said Oberyn to Obara's mother. And Obara went to live with the
Red Viper.
This is installment two, based on pages 5, 6, 7 and 8 of my notes.
I should mention that at some point it becomes clear that Areo is from the
free city of Norvos. I note that Doran's wife is also from there. Areo is
even in the appendix of AGOT....can you believe he has been in the works all
this long and now we are hearing his story? We hear some description of
Norvos and of Areo's childhood. Areo was the youngest of his family, a small
boy when he was sold to the bearded priests. He was branded in the form of
an ax at some point, possibly after beginning military training. At the
ceremony his mother is present, and bears are dancing down the middle of the
steps of an edifice. He eventually swore to serve, obey and protect, though
the religion of the Seven was always strange to him.
Obara believes that the word must be war at Sunspear. After consultation
with the Maester and Areo, Doran says that though it is not wise, it is
necessary that he return to Sunspear. The debate is that enemies should not
know how feeble Doran is. Yet he says that he must be seen, for someone must
pour oil on the boiling waters.
There is discussion of Ser Aerys Oakheart, escort of Myrcella Baratheon.
"You know he sends letters to his Queen", Obara tells Doran. Areo has
somehow foresee that Aerys will die, he feels sorry for the man. I am a bit
sketchy on detail here.
Sun sets and the children are no longer heard outside as they have gone into
their rooms. Prince Doran has a light meal of purple olives, flat bread and
chickpea paste. (That's right...we get many more descriptions of luscious
food.) Then he retires to his quarters, a great room of cool linen sheets in
a chamber beside the sea.
Dawn comes and the smallest cedarwood litter is chosen to carry Prince
Doran, along with 20 spears and Captain of the Guard, Areo, who is always at
his left hand. We get a description of Aero's armor. It is copper colored in
bits, has netting, and designed so that a man can stand it in the heat of
Dorne (sketchy on further detail). The group feasts on a breakfast of
bloodoranges, quail eggs and sliced ham with fiery peppers.
The group finally departs at midday, following a red road that runs beside
the sea. It is a spare red-brown land of stone and sand with twisted trees.
On a sand dune ahead, the second Sand Snake appears, riding a golden mare.
She is Nymeria, Princess Nym. She is 25 with straight black hair which comes
to a widows point like her father's. She possesses all the beauty Obara
lacked. Her mother was royalty of old Volantis (?) while Obara's was an Old
Town whore.
She hails the group with a 'Well met" and joins them as if the meeting had
occurred by chance. Asking if she may travel with them, Doran tells her that
she may be a better companion than some, for gout and grief make poor
companions on the road.
Gregor is discussed. Nym tells her Uncle that Gregor admitted his guilt,
crying it aloud for all to hear. Nym is told they have been promised the
head of Gregor. But she says she believes Tywin intends to pay them in
'their own coin".
Princess Nym says that she had it from sweet Ser Daimon, who was a Fowler,
that Gregor will die through the poison. She reminds her Uncle of the Fowler
words - "Let me Soar".
"Let ME Soar", she asks. In other words, she wants to be able to revenge her
father properly. Her Uncle indulges this request and asks what she needs. "I
need Tyene" she says, referring to a sister Sand Snake. She believes Obara
is too hard and will be balanced by Tyene's "gentleness". "Gentleness" is
definitely in quotes.
Nym believes one death by poison is not enough. But she will be happy with
four death - the golden twins, the old Lion and the Little King.
Installment three, the last one.
It is pointed out that 'the boy' is a bastard, if Stannis can be believed,
Doran tells Nym.
"Only royal blood can avenge my father's murder" says Nym. This opens the
possibility that Tommen will be spared after all.
Doran advises Nym not to provoke Tywin unduly, but she replies " My sisters
and I will not wait seven and ten years for our vengance".
At last the party approaches Sunspear, fantastically orange-red-brown. The
spear tower is 150 feet tall. Nearly as tall is the tower of the Sun. A
third formation is described (sketchy on detail here). Here the air smelled
of dust and smoke. Houses were built of mud and straw. Along the massive
walls were found mudbrick shops and windowless houses. Y
It was not much compared to Tyrosh or Mir or Great Norvas. Yet, it was the
nearest thing to a true city these Dornish had . (Remember: Areo POV, is
from Norvas.)
The party begins to approach the city walls. "Make way for the Prince of
Dorne" is called out.
"The Prince is dead", some cry. "To spears", many cry. Cries of "Vengance
for the Viper" ring in the air. "War, war...to the spears" is heard. There
is no answer from within the silken litter.
At last the party enters Sunspear, the portcullis closing behind them.
Princess Arianne, heir to the throne, is waiting to great her father.
Doran's party enters the palace to find Arianne, the Castallan, the Maester,
Myrcella and Aerys Oakheart waiting for them.
Arianne tries flattery and says "Father, Sunspear rejoices at your return".
Doran simply replies, with irony "Yes, I heard the joy."
A feast is prepared. Doran says that he does not see Tyene. He is told that
she begs a private word for him and is waiting in the throne room.
The third Sand Snake is wearing a clinging gown with blue samite sleeves and
Myrish lace. She has blonde hair and blue eyes. But there is something about
the eyes. Something (piercing? detail sketchy here). Doran realizes that all
of the Red Viper's daughters have their father's eyes, no matter the color.
Tyene's mother had been a Septa. She seems quite gentle, asking her uncle if
there is anything she can do to ease his pain. She has made a tapestry which
shows Oberyn, and she presents it to Doran. "I am not likely to forget your
father", he says.
Tyene speaks of Gregor. She says that they have prayed so long for his
death. She assures her Uncle that Gregor will pray for it too, for she knows
the poison her father used.
It is discussed that Dornishmen fight best at home. The Lannister's and
Tyrell's will be drawn into Dorne and then ambushed.
Tyene speaks of Myrcella and says they have the Imp to thank for her, and
that she envies her long blonde curls. Trystane and Myrcella are so innocent
she remarks. Yet it is understood that under Dornish custom, Myrcella is
heir to the Iron Throne, rightful Queen of the Andals. She is the eldest,
the throne passes to the eldest regardless of gender in Dorne.
Doran asks to think on it. Tyrene opines that he thinks too much and that
her father thought too little.
Tyene asks for her Uncles blessing and kneels to be touched on the head. She
likely touches his hand at some point for after she has left, Doran and
Maester C. examine his hand to make sure the skin is not broken for this
would indicate poison. He appears to be unharmed.
Doran calls for milk of the poppy, something he refused before for his pain
He then asks Areo how many of the guards are truly loyal to him. Areo says
that they are Dornishmen and they will do as he commands.
Prince Doran tells Captain Areo that he has a special task for a few of
them. It must be quick, quiet and bloodless. "Take the Sand Snakes into
custody", he says. "Confine them in cells at the top of the Spear Tower" All
eight are to be taken into custody.
Doran is told that the common folk will howl in the streets. But he does not
care. He says that he will let Tywin see what a friend he has in Doran.
So ends the chapter.
If more details about Dornish customs, clothing, or architecture can be dug
up, I'd be interested. It sounded like at least one or two more mourning
customs were mentioned besides the free prostitutes and the lamenting in the
streets.
I don't think Doran is Tywin's friend. I think he's decided to act and lure
the Lannisters into . . . something, anyways. The way those words are put
suggest that he'll offer a hand while keeping a knife behind his back.
The Sand Snakes sound interesting, indeed. Princess Nym . . . interesting.
Because of her mother's old royalty, or all of the Sand Snakes considered
princesses, or simply because she looks so much like a princess with her
beauty? Interesting indeed. And they're an interesting lot, of course.
Ser Daemon a Fowler? Ser Daemon Sand was Bastard of Godsgrace, his father an
Allyrion. I suppose that his mother could have been a Fowler, so that Nym
could make her point about their words. And now we have their words, so
we'll have to add them on to their shield. Cool.
It's Areo, BTW. Areo Hotah. Bearded priests must have been part of the
theocracy of Norvos, which has a unique religion. They seem to make use of
slave-soldiers. It's odd to call Hotah a "sellsword" if, technically, he was
a slave who came as part of Princess Mellario's dowry. But I suppose they
could have "freed" him, in accordance with Westerosi law and custom, and he
draws a salary. He seems quite trusted by Doran, quite loyal.
I wouldn't mind more recollections on his armor. The "netting" in
particular.
When speaking with Tyene, you write that they discuss talking about Dorne
fighting best on home ground and that "they" will draw the Lannisters and
Tyrells in and ambush them. Do "they" really plan this, or was Tyene or
someone else discussing how such a plan would be superior than marching on
Old Town (as Obara wanted)?
Obara . . . there may be a very small continuity problem there if she was
supposed to have been concieved when Oberyn passed through Old Town with his
sister and mother. Tyrion is about 26, so Obara would have to be 25-26. But
she could just look thirty years old, I suppose. Also makes the timing with
Princess Nym rather tight -- she's 25, so she'd be a bare year younger.
Oberyn went to Volantis rather swiftly.
The other possibility, of course, is that Obara was concieved when Oberyn
was 12 or so. They could have been at Old Town for some reason back then --
a tournament or some such -- and Oberyn strikes me as a precocious lad. And
then, with the berths empty of Lannisters, they could have stopped in Old
Town and for some reason or other Oberyn picked up his 2 year old daughter
and carried her off to Sunspear. I wonder what the Princess his mother would
have said about that?
Notably, the Sand Snakes do seem to have been listed in birth order in ASoS.
Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene are the three eldest, it appears.
It's a shame that Ser Arys Oakheart will have to meet with some accident.
He's a nice fellow. Perhaps Doran will find some other way . . .
Sunspear, another city of Westeros. I figured. Very cool. It has a very
different feel to it from KL, certainly. Though I always imagined it as
quite whitewashed, in Mediterranean fashion. But browns and reds and oranges
works quite well, and fits some Dornish architecture.
Denstorebog and others who have wondered: It is possible that GRRM said
"about" in front of any of the numbers he used, because my memory is not
exact. He could have said "about" 7 chapters or "about" 200 pages. On the
later, however, I get the feeling it is pretty close to 200 pages.
I am not sure why the assumption is out there that AFFC will run 1000 pages
or so. Was that a spoiler somewhere? I honestly get the feeling this may be
a shorter book. AGOT length or (my *opinion* I don't know) possibly a little
shorter.
Ran, I thought your response was amazing. It was as if you were there. You
have spotted the places where my details were sketchy (even where I did not
note it) and wondered about things that I thought I was tipped off to wonder
about only by tone of voice and hearing all the words. I'll respond in
detail.
<<Amazing. Woo. If more details about Dornish customs, clothing, or
architecture can be dug up, I'd be interested. >>
I will try, and hopefully we will hear from Danlo. He has read up to pg 120
of AGOT so far, so much of this was new to him.
<<It sounded like at least one or two more mourning customs were mentioned
besides the free prostitutes and the lamenting in the streets.>>
I believe you are exactly right about that. Unfortunately, I was so excited
about the reading, I cannot remember what anyone else in the room looked
like to ask them. But about a quarter of the convention was in the room. So
I could ask folks at random if there were in the reading and ask them if
they recall more about this. And again, Danlo may well recall more.
<<I don't think Doran is Tywin's friend. I think he's decided to act and
lure the Lannisters into . . . something, anyways. The way those words are
put suggest that he'll offer a hand while keeping a knife behind his back.>>
You know, I thought that only came through if you heard tone of voice and
all the words. Yes, I wonder about Doran's intentions too. However,
something that may not have come through from my notes, but I know it is so
is this. Doran is much more gentle, wise and good intentioned than the SS.
He is probably more interested in the good of Dorne than in vengance. So he
will be friend/not friend to Tywin or whomever is regent based upon that, I
believe.
I do think Doran will initially try to deal with the Regent just as he dealt
with Tywin. The Regent's reaction will be quite interesting.
<<The Sand Snakes sound interesting, indeed. Princess Nym . . . interesting.
Because of her mother's old royalty, or all of the Sand Snakes considered
princesses, or simply because she looks so much like a princess with her
beauty? Interesting indeed. And they're an interesting lot, of course. >>
I believe all the Sand Snakes were counted Princesses.
<<Ser Daemon a Fowler? Ser Daemon Sand was Bastard of Godsgrace, his father
an Allyrion. I suppose that his mother could have been a Fowler, so that Nym
could make her point about their words. And now we have their words, so
we'll have to add them on to their shield. Cool. >>
My notes were not great at that point but I am almost certain GRRM said
there was some type of relation between Ser Daemon and the Fowlers. Its
possible they just got mentioned in a paragraph in which Ser Daemon was also
mentioned, however.
<<It's Areo, BTW. Areo Hotah. >>
I found myself correcting typos last night as I occasionally wrote Aero.
Hopefully I put Areo, most of the time...
<< Bearded priests must have been part of the theocracy of Norvos, which has
a unique religion. They seem to make use of slave-soldiers. It's odd to call
Hotah a "sellsword" if, technically, he was a slave who came as part of
Princess Mellario's dowry. But I suppose they could have "freed" him, in
accordance with Westerosi law and custom, and he draws a salary. He seems
quite trusted by Doran, quite loyal.>>
Sell-sword? Was that in one of the books? I don't recall GRRM saying it last
evening.
<<I wouldn't mind more recollections on his armor. The "netting" in
particular.>>
I will try to ask about details on armor and mourning customs.
<<When speaking with Tyene, you write that they discuss talking about Dorne
fighting best on home ground and that "they" will draw the Lannisters and
Tyrells in and ambush them. Do "they" really plan this, or was Tyene or
someone else discussing how such a plan would be superior than marching on
Old Town (as Obara wanted)>>
Unfortunately, I only recall that it was discussed. I don't recall which
party was advocating the ambush plan.
<<Obara . . . there may be a very small continuity problem there if she was
supposed to have been concieved when Oberyn passed through Old Town with his
sister and mother. Tyrion is about 26, so Obara would have to be 25-26. But
she could just look thirty years old, I suppose. Also makes the timing with
Princess Nym rather tight -- she's 25, so she'd be a bare year younger.
Oberyn went to Volantis rather swiftly.>>>
Yes, one of the few things not to make it into my report from my notes, but
you must have known from elsewhere, Ran, was that Oberyn was 10 years
younger than Doran. It's possible they said "about" 30 on Obara. However, I
get the feeling it's more like around 29 if that is the case. I would go
with the theory you mentioned of her being conceived when her Father was
12-13, based on what I know.
<<Notably, the Sand Snakes do seem to have been listed in birth order in
ASoS. Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene are the three eldest, it appears.>>
Interesting. I thought I could infer this as GRRM was reading, but I did not
say it, as I could not be sure.
<<It's a shame that Ser Arys Oakheart will have to meet with some accident.
He's a nice fellow. Perhaps Doran will find some other way . . .>>
This morning I remembered Prince Doran saying how sorry he felt for the
White Knight. Yes, it's possible he will not have to die.
<<Sunspear, another city of Westeros. I figured. Very cool. It has a very
different feel to it from KL, certainly. Though I always imagined it as
quite whitewashed, in Mediterranean fashion. But browns and reds and oranges
works quite well, and fits some Dornish architecture.>>
There may have been more about her than my notes reflected. The scene with
the people crying out for vengence caught my attention and I was catching up
on my notes from that scene as Doran first greeted Arianne.
I did get the impression that the entire Prologue will be set in Dorne, but
I could be wrong, it's just an impression.
Asha, that is an interesting thought about the locking up of the SS as
related to the five year gap. I think keeping them locked up for five years
may indeed have been something GRRM considered. However, he appears to have
dismissed that idea, perhaps as something he and/or the reader's would not
be the most comfortable with.
I now recall that there was specific discussion of locking up the 20 year
old SS, with a slight description of her. Also, Areo asked if even the
youngest were to be locked up. Doran told him that they would not be a
danger in themselves, but since others could use them for their own ends,
they had best be locked up too.
Oh, and here is something I forgot to put in my original account. GRRM was
asked how many books there will be. He replied "I''m going to say how many I
think and she (Parris) will hold up her fingers on how many she thinks.". He
said "six" and Parris held up seven fingers. You had to be there! It was
hilarious. They got to do this about three times. Btw, I think agree with
Parris. And I can tell you as I did a year ago, that when I was in Portland,
GRRM acknowledged the possibility of seven books, though he thinks it will
be six. He said he does not know what the title of book seven will be if
there is one. Parris contributed "I get to name it". Joking with him. Very
comfortable atmosphere.
It's in the appendix, that Areo Hotah, captain of the guards, is a Norvosi
sellsword. It's interesting that it isn't mentioned. It may be that calling
him a sellsword is a mere formality, and that in truth he is bound much more
closely to them. A 20 year old ... I'm guessing this is either Sarella Sand
or Elia Sand. Sarella is listed after Tyene, and Elia after Sarella. Or
perhaps Tyene is the 20 year old?
The point about a 1,000 pages is good. This comes from the most recent
change at Amazon, giving a 1,024 page count, but we all know what those
estimates are worth. I do remember GRRM stating recently that AGoT-ACoK was
the size he was thinking. The only concern I have with this is that 200
pages of prologues minus a book the size of ACoK (about 750 pages) means 550
pages of "regular" story. Which may well be possible, but it sounds like
it'd be hard to present the five years in so little space. Perhaps 900
pages -- that would work pretty well, I think.
I haven't paid much attention to ASOIAF since GRRM started to change things
around, and now wham ... I'm hooked again, after one chapter. Which makes
waiting harder.
So what do people think about the Sand Snakes in the context of the Game of
Thrones? I know we've only had little glance, but they seem very like
Oberyn - flamboyant, impulsive, bloodthirsty, and likely to bite off more
than they can chew. I can't see anything with them in charge succeeding
against the truly formidable characters like Tywin, Roose, Petyr, or Olenna.
In fact, I think they'd prove more of a liability than an asset, if they do
have a hold on the population. The ones we've seen seem to act in unison,
are inclined to disregard Doran's authority, and might be a divisive force
amongst the Dornish, especially if they've sympathisers amongst Oberyn's
entourage. In which case Arianne may be important, if she can act as a
counterweight and help maintain her father's control. If she's Sansa Mark
II, then maybe the Dornish will be in need of a little help in about five
years.
There was a line about Myrcella being rightful queen, as I said. Then
someone said that was only under Dornish law. Then, someone said "Yes, but
she is in Dorne".
I was thinking they wanted to make Myrcella queen even before I remembered
that line. But of course they want to use her and have Trystayne, Doran's
youngest son, who is her financee? Well...to have whoever her fiance is be
the power behind the throne.
I now think that they might even like to have the ruling seat moved from
King's Landing to Sunspear. This would be after the death of most of
Myrcella's immediate family.
But I am unsure as to whether it is just the SS or also Doran who would hope
to use Myrcella.
Bastard is no fly in the ointment as a ruler of Dorne can be both bastard
and female, I think. Though Westerosi laws forbid it overall. But all they
need to is deny Myrcella's bastard status.
I was rather surprised at the line about bastard blood not sufficing, as I
understood the Dornish did not make a great deal about bastard/nonbastard
status.
Ran, I don't think the structure was given a name.
Maia, Doran's wife was not mentioned in the chapter.
I'm waffling on who the POV will be. What would be more important, a Dorne
POV or a Iron one? Hmmmmmm....not sure.>>
Who are the candidates?
It would have to be a Martell or Martell linked character to tell the
Dornish story, IMO. A lesser Dornish Lord would be unlikely to be in
position to give us the inside scoop, so to speak. That suggests DORAN,
ARIANNE, QUENTYN, TRYSTANE, MYRCELLA, a Sand Snake, AREO, or Doran's wife
(name?).
I'd say that Areo is unlikey since we've never seen a prologue/epilogue
character get a continued POV. But then again, we've never seen a
prologue/epilogue character survive. Myrcella and Trystane are unlikely
since GRRM has said that he doesn't want to write any more child POVs. I
don't think a Sand Snake would suffice, simply because I get something of a
supporting character feel about them. It could be any of the others but I'd
put my money on Doran. He'd be an original choice, when was the last time
you read the POV of a gouty old man? And I'd think him unlikely to last the
pace of the series. GRRM seems to want to limit the page count of the later
books. Telling Dorne through Doran and then having him bite the bullet would
work towards that end, since he'd not have to include him in the next novel.
Have one point about AshaShan's suggestion of Doran as the Dorne PoV...
Since Doran is old, gouty, and unlikely to move about much, he would indeed
be mostly useful if the "action" was only in Dorne. But as for killing him
off when he's no longer needed... well, if he were no longer needed,
wouldn't that be because there was to be no more Dorne-centered action for a
while? As in most of the important Dornish characters being away... perhaps
marching north?
I think whoever the PoV is, toward the end of the book we will see the
forces of Dorne going northward... perhaps on their own, perhaps with Dany.
One more thing - do any of you think it's possible that Doran is in on the
whole thing with Dany returning? Perhaps even in cahoots with Illyrio and
Varys? That might explain why he's waited so long for revenge and held back
his brother and nieces, because he knew there would come a time when they
could take their vengeance without so much danger. Hence all the talk of
patience?
One more thing - do any of you think it's possible that Doran is in on the
whole thing with Dany returning? Perhaps even in cahoots with Illyrio and
Varys? That might explain why he's waited so long for revenge and held back
his brother and nieces, because he knew there would come a time when they
could take their vengeance without so much danger. Hence all the talk of
patience?"
Yes, that's what it looks like to me, too... OTOH, as someone who is in
"Aegon is alive" camp, I don't think that he does it for Dany . Not
primarily, at least. I do think that Doran is now waiting for Dany and her
dragons to arrive in Pentos. What a disappointment it would be for him and
I&V when they'll learn that she isn't coming.
Doran looks like a goner - apart from the Sand Snakes being on his case and
displeasure of his subjects, he is apparently in a genuinly bad health. It
would be interesting if he manages to hang on until ADWD...
GRRM said that he thought he did not give too many details of the armor in
the chapter he read.
Also, and this makes a *whole* lot more sense, the prostitutes of Dorne do
not always give away free wares when a major personage dies. However, they
wanted to honor the Red Viper in that way because of his proclivities. It
was clear when GRRM read it, but my notes just had "mourning - prostitutes -
free wares" and thats the way it goes.
I did not ask GRRM about the age thing. I think number questions are not his
favorites from what he said last night.
Those were two things I felt sketchy on. Hopefully the other information is
pretty good. But I can't issue guarantees. Danlo, be sure to say if anything
I said conflicts with what you remember. It's likely impossible to remember
a 40 minute reading with no errors in what you do recall. Much more
difficult than a lecture in which they put notes and keywords on the board
and take pauses. Wish GRRM could have done that With no pauses, you are
always noting one thing while he talks about another.
Oberyn seems quite the popular chap in Dorne. "Vengeance for the Viper"
indeed . The call of "to spears" seems to indicate that the spear is a
Dornishmans primary weapon.
Areo Hotah sounds fascinating. A perfect POV to not only give us info on
Dorne (from an outsiders perspective) but to slip us a few details of the
Free Cities as well.
Did anyone else get the impression that perhaps Doran and Oberyn werent
normally on very good terms? The fact that Doran suspects the Sand Snakes
may try to poison him ... Could Oberyn have originally been sent to KL just
so Doran could get him out of his hair?
The speculation about Ser Arys - is it Doran who formally plans on killing
the KG? I got the impression that the Sand Snakes would do away with him,
and that Doran had no real way of stopping that.
Could Obara have been born when Oberyn was studying at the Citadel?
I like the background of the various sandsnakes. Obara's mother is a whore.
Another ones mother is a septa (!) and Nym is from the royal blood of
Volantis.
Im now absolutely clueless as to who the new POV will be. There seems to be
too many hotspots flaring up to be covered by one simple new POV ...
Oberyn seems quite the popular chap in Dorne. "Vengeance for the Viper"
indeed . The call of "to spears" seems to indicate that the spear is a
Dornishmans primary weapon.
Areo Hotah sounds fascinating. A perfect POV to not only give us info on
Dorne (from an outsiders perspective) but to slip us a few details of the
Free Cities as well.
Did anyone else get the impression that perhaps Doran and Oberyn werent
normally on very good terms? The fact that Doran suspects the Sand Snakes
may try to poison him ... Could Oberyn have originally been sent to KL just
so Doran could get him out of his hair?
The speculation about Ser Arys - is it Doran who formally plans on killing
the KG? I got the impression that the Sand Snakes would do away with him,
and that Doran had no real way of stopping that.
Could Obara have been born when Oberyn was studying at the Citadel?
I like the background of the various sandsnakes. Obara's mother is a whore.
Another ones mother is a septa (!) and Nym is from the royal blood of
Volantis.
Im now absolutely clueless as to who the new POV will be. There seems to be
too many hotspots flaring up to be covered by one simple new POV ...
**SPOILERS** ARYA CHAPTER!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Ok, all you Arya fans.here is the info you have been waiting for!
The chapter opens up with Arya and the ship-captain's son Denyo standing on
the prow of the Titan's Daughter on their way to Braavos. Arya looks across
the water to see the light from some sort of beacon. Denyo comments that it
is the star of home. This makes Arya think of her home, Winterfel. She
reflects on the deaths of her family and remembers all those who have tried
to take her home and failed i.e. Yoren, BwB, Sandor.
She then contemplates that the only thing she needs in her life is her
sword. She then thinks of how oddly the crew treats her. Half of them shun
her and the other half shower her with gifts, a silver fork, gloves, woolen
hat and a few other things. These sailors keep telling her their names and
make her memorize them. The sailors call her Salty since she came aboard at
the Saltpans.
Arya looks back at the light in the sky and sees that it has become two
lights. Denyo tells her that the lights are eyes, the eyes of the Titan.
Arya remembers that Old Nan had told her that the Titan of Braavos ate the
flesh of little high-born girls. Arya dismisses all that Nan and Maester
Luwin taught her, they are dead and she doesn't want to think of them
anymore. Its also impotant to note that at this point Arya believes that
Sansa is most likely dead as well, she truly believes that she is alone in
the world.
Arya asks if the Titan is the god of the Braavosi, Denyo replies that all
gods are honored in the City and that there is a Sept on the island. Arya
comments to herself that the seven were her mother's gods and that they are
not her gods. She wonders if she will find a godswood in the City. At this
point she remembers her father and his words that a lone wolf dies but that
pack survives. She thinks that he got it wrong since she, the lone wolf,
lives but that the pack has been killed and skinned.
Denyo remarks that the temple to the Moonsingers is the greatest temple on
the island, apparently long ago the Moonsinger priests led the Braavosi here
to escape the wrath of Valyria. There is also a large temple to the Father
of Waters and another large one for the Many Faced God. Denyo gets rather
quiet when he mentions the Many Faced God. Arya thins to herself that if the
Many-Faced God will answer her prayers (here she recites her list of people
needing killing) then he will be her god.
Ok, now we get a look at the Titan. He is a giant of a statue, made from the
same rock as the cliffs that surround the lagoon. Basically the gap between
the legs of the Titan are the only way in the lagoon, cliffs surround
everything else. The Titan is clothed in Bronze, a bronze skirt (kilt or
toga perhaps?), bronze breastplate, bronze head and half-helm (I thought it
odd him having a bronze head, but its there in black and white on my page)
Actually, the more I look at it looks as if the entire statue is either
bronze or bronze plated except for the legs which are hewn from the stone
pillars. Green rope is used to make the Titan look as if he had hair. One
hand rests on a cliff ridge, and the other holds a broken sword high in the
air. Arya makes a comment that he could walk over the walls of Winterfel.
The Titan has arrow slits in his legs and murder holes under his skirt, it
appears to be a formidable defensive structure. Beyond the Titan a lagoon
opens up. Immediately beyond the entrance to the lagoon is the Arsenal, a
large stone fort full of scorpians, catapults and other nasty weapons. Denyo
boasts to Arya that it can produce a War Galley a day. Many galleys can be
seen tied up to quays around the Arsenal.
Beyond the Arsenal the lagoon stretches on to the City of Braavos itself.
The City is actually many small islands connected by bridges. There are no
walls protecting the City, Denyo mentions that the Galleys of Braavos are
the wooden walls of the City (this passage reminds me of the Athenian navy
during the battle of Marathon).
Here Arya is taken off the boat by another son of the captain named Yorko.
Arya thinks of how she would like to stay on the ship.how she liked sailing,
but she knows that the captain will not allow her to stay even though he has
been kind to her.
Yorko mans a small boat and begins to take arya over to the Many-Faced God
temple. Arya sees more of the City and remarks on the large number if
massive structures in Braavos compared to Kingslanding where there were only
three. Arya notices that everything is made of stone and that there are no
trees on the island, she thinks the City looks very grey. (There is a lot of
description of Braavos here, and GRRM does a much better job then I ever
could of describing the City, so I'll let you read his words and see Braavos
through his eyes.)
One thing caught my attention the Warren. The Warren is a temple dedicated
to the small gods whom the world has forgotten. It seemed interesting and
since GRRM spends a paragraph describing and naming the building I am led to
believe that it will have significance later.
Arya reaches the temple of the Many Faced God, Yorko goes away. Arya tries
to open the door but can't. She yells at it, and brandishes her coin. The
door opens. The door is half ebony and half weirwood. In the center of the
door is a carved moon, half ebony half weirwood, but on reverse side. She
feels that the doors are watching her.
Inside the temple she hears water, she finds a pool with a man moaning
crouched next to it. He appears to be trying to get some water so Arya picks
up a cup of water and hands it to him. Its then that she notices that he is
bleeding from the stomach. The man stumbles off to an alcove and lies down.
Arya notices that there are other alcoves with people lying in them. She
realizes that they are dead.
While she is looking at the dying man she is approached by a young girl and
a cowled man. Ok, I'm going to stop here. This is the end of the chapter
except for some very witty dialogue between Arya and the man. I don't want
to ruin it for you all since there are some funny lines.nothing significant
plot wise is learnt from this page of dialogue so don't feel left out.
--
Giochi di ruolo, Fantasy, Tolkien, Castelli. Io impazzisco!!!  ^___^;
Odio qualsiasi forma di retorica fuorche' quella che si adopera durante un
brindisi o una canzone.
Ed L'Addolorato Fan Club TESSERA 01 Sono aperte le iscrizioni!
ICQ 132312979 - IAFO N° 189
Sto leggendo: "lLa Legione Perduta" di Harry Turtledove
Dirk

 CRONACHE DEL GHIACCIO E DEL FUOCO!!!!
Grazie Dirk!! ottimo lavoro!!


muy interessante!!!!!!!!!
bravo
fangorn
"che cosa c'e' in questo mondo che rende la vita degna di essere vissuta?"
Morte riflette' a lungo.
I GATTI - disse alla fine - I GATTI SONO GRAZIOSI

 di un forum....
Due piccole precisazioni:
Non si tratta di un capitolo, ma del riassunto di un capitolo (in inglese).
^_^
Se a qualcuno dovesse interessare materiale del genere, sempre in inglese,
se ne trova in abbondanza sul forum ezboard
http://pub26.ezboard.com/fasoiaffrm2
In particolare, sul forum si trova il riassunto di circa quindici capitoli
di AFfC.
Chi non avesse alcuna voglia di leggere materiale in inglese, e si dovesse
accontentare di qualche scarno riassunto del riassunto (in italiano, questa
volta), non ha che da chiedere - l'avevo fatto qualche tempo fa su
richiesta, ed ora i riassuntini giacciono nel mio HD ^_-
--
Ciao, Koorlick
http://westeros.arslabweb.com