Newsgroup: it.cultura.linguistica.italiano
Titolo: Calabrese


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Is the Calabrese a Castillan Spanish dialect?
I don't know Castilian Spanish very well. Moreover, I don't know
differing definitions of language versus dialect. It was Dante's use
of his native Tuscan dialect that established it as the Italian
literary language (14th century). 
Someone said that a language was a dialect with an army and a navy.
But Italian (Tuscan) remained the official language with the loss of
political liberty that was experienced when most of Italy fell under
the domination of Spain. Manzoni's novel "I promessi sposi" (The
Betrothed) --a portrait of life in Spanish-dominated Lombardy in the
17th century-- quotes many Spanish <grida> (commands). These "grida"
were written in an involved Italian style. (BTW, Manzoni rewrote this
magniloquent language in the Tuscan dialect and "I promessi sposi" set
the standard for modern Italian).
Linguists say "dialect" if the speakers can understand each other and
"language" if they can't. For example, Calabrese and Neapolitan are
dialects of Italian. But sometimes the use of these terms is
politically motivated. Calabrese and Castilian are also mutually
intelligible; but are considered separate languages because of their
political condition.
Examples of similarity between the language of Calabria Citeriore
(e.g., the dialect of Scigliano) and Castilian are numerous:
i) the Calabrese auxiliary verb <tenire> (to hold) corresponds to
Spanish auxiliary verb <tener>. There are only two auxiliary verbs in
Italian: <essere> (to be) and <avere> (to have).
ii) The consonant "b" (as in "bad") of Italian words changes into the
consonant "v" (as in "van") of Calabrese dialect (e.g. Italian <bacio>
(kiss), Calabrese <vasu>; Italian <badile> (shovel), Calabrese
<vadile>; Italian <bacinella> (basin), Calabrese <vacile>, and so on.)
iii). The consonant "f" (as in "fall") of Italian words changes into
the consonant "h" (as in "heart") of Calabrese dialect (e.g. Italian
<ferro> (iron), Calabrese <hierru>). This sound is missing in Italian.
iv) And so on...


>Is the Calabrese a Castillan Spanish dialect?
il calabrese e' un dialetto castigliano?
assolutamente no!
negative!
in Calabria ci sono stati vicere' spagnoli, quando il meridione
italiano era sottoposto alla Spagna, ed esiste una famosa raccolta di
canzoni rinascimentali spagnole che si chiama "El cancioner del Duc di
Calabria" o qualcosa del genere (simile al Llibre Vermeill, per
itnenderci), ma non ci sono affatto influenze spagnole nel dialetto
calabrese.
Calabria had spanish viceroy when southern Italy was dominated by
Spain, and there is a famous collection of spanish renaissance songs
called "El cancioner del Duc di Calabria" or something like this
(another famous collection is the Llibre Vermeill), but there are no
spanis influences in calabrese dialect.
ci potrebbe essere una certa somiglianza fonetica tra calabrese e
catalano, ma dubito che sia piu' di una coincidenza, come tra il
genovese e il portoghese.
maybe there is a phonetic resemblance between calabrese and catalan,
but I doubt it's more than a coincidence, like genovese and
portuguese.
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 calabrese.
  Ma stai scherzando?  Non solo sei ridicolmente categorico, ma potrei
affermare per certo (se fossi anche molto meno categorico) che sei in
errore.  C'e` stata una dominazione spagnola e francese nel sud-Italia
e nei dialetti del sud si sentono le influenze di entrambe le lingue
(credo che nel siciliano si senta assai poco l'influenza francese, a
differenza del napoletano).  Non e` una questione di "somiglianze
fortuite".  Ci sono degli evidenti calchi ed anche parole di evidente
importazione.  Quando c'e` la possibilita` ed il movente la colpevolez-
za e` quasi certa...:-)
  Saluti
  Gigi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luigi Mancinelli
Lab. Didattici
Fac. Scienze
Universita` di Trento
38050 POVO(TN)
ITALY
ma...@science.unitn.it
  Cercare di semplificare i problemi e` l'obiettivo,
 pensare che siano semplici e` la strada sbagliata (Gigi Mancinelli)

  Ma stai scherzando?  Non solo sei ridicolmente categorico, ma potrei
io invece penso che tu abbia esagerato.
