Newsgroup: it.arti.fantasy
Titolo: Teorie di un esperto americano su ASOIAF

Vi copip qui di seguito leparole di un esperto de Le Cronache del Ghiaccio e
del Fuoco che a quanto pare e' a stetto contatto con Martin
ovviamente e' zeppo di
SPOILER su tutta la pubblicazione...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
--------------------
What Do Hoster Tully's Last Words Mean?
"Tansy...Forgive me...the blood...oh, please...Tansy...Dead...You'll have
others...sweet babes and trueborn...be a good wife and the gods will bless
you...sons...trueborn sons...aaahhh."
--SoS, pg. 29
Those are some of the last words that the reader gets from Hoster until he
dies several hundred pages later. But what do these enigmatic final
utterings mean? Catelyn thought that her father might have been calling out
to some old mistress, but, compared with other quotes, we can surmise a
different story. Let's look at a quote from CoK, pg. 571
"It was best," her father whispered. "Jon's a good man, good...strong,
kind...take care of you...he will...and well born, listen to me, you must, I
'm your father...your father...you'll wed when Cat does, yes, you
will...That stripling...wretched boy...not speak that name to me, your
duty...your mother, she would...Oh, gods, forgive me, forgive me, forgive
me..."
It seems that Hoster was talking to Lysa in both of the above quotes. But
what is he talking about? We can figure out by simple observation. We learn
at the end of A Storm of Swords, that Littlefinger impregnated Lysa, but
Hoster secretly gave Lysa a draught that led to an abortion. It seems that
he was asking Lysa's forgiveness for this. The 'wretched boy' is
Littlefinger. The tansy is explained by a quote of Lysa's from SoS, pg. 913
"I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they
murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of
honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me. I never knew. I only drank
what father gave me..."
--
Giochi di ruolo, Fantasy, Tolkien, Castelli. Io impazzisco!!!  ^___^;
"La vendetta e' per i deboli e per gli inetti"
Ed L'Addolorato Fan Club TESSERA 01 Sono aperte le iscrizioni!
ICQ 132312979 - IAFO N° 189
Sto leggendo: "La Mano Sinistra delle Tenebre" di Ursula Le Guin
Dirk
The 'tansy' that Hoster is muttering is most likely the tansy that Lysa
lists in the ingredients of the abortion drink.
There could possibly be another explanation for the mysterious last words,
however. On SoS, pg. 331, Arya and the Brotherhood Without Banners come to
the brothel in Stoney Sept. There, they are introduced to a whore named
Tansy. Coincidence?
It has been suggested that Hoster had a love affair with this Tansy,
possibly during his campaigns in Robert's Rebellion, and he did something
that led to him begging her forgiveness. While this theory has a certain
romantic merit, it fails to stand up to the other explanation. The
mutterings about trueborn babes, the blood, the wretched boy, they all point
to Lysa's abortion as opposed to an affair with a whore in the riverlands.
So it appears most likely that Hoster was referring to Lysa's unknowing
abortion on his deathbed. It could be possible that he was in fact referring
to a whore named Tansy, but all evidence points in a different direction.
Who is Jaqen H'ghar? Is he Syrio Forel?
In A Clash of Kings, Arya meets up with Jaqen H'ghar, a mysterious assassin
with the added skill of changing his physical appearance. Since Jaqen seems
skilled at keeping secret identities, it has been suggested that he is none
other than Syrio Forel, Arya's sword teacher and 'water dancer.' But is
there proof to back up this claim?
The biggest piece of proof pointing toward the fact that Syrio is still
alive is the simple fact that we didn't see him die, nor have had any proof
that he is dead. When we last left him on GoT, page 534, Syrio was preparing
to face down Meryn Trant after his wooden sword was broken. Since we see
Meryn appear after the encounter but not Syrio, we assume that Syrio was
killed. Meryn doesn't seem like the type to mess around, and he odid order
his men to kill Syrio.
But one can doubt this. We never hear any report that he is dead. The
closest confirmation that we have is something Cersei tells Tyrion on CoK,
pg. 58:
"I sent Meryn Trant to take her {Arya} in hand when Robert died, but her
wretched dancing master interfered and the girl fled."
Note that Cersei says nothing to imply that Syrio was killed in the
encounter. Syrio 'interfered,' not 'sacrificed himself.' Some readers have
taken this to mean that Syrio did not die at Meryn's hands, and, in fact,
was placed in the black cells.
Cut to A Clash of Kings. Yoren is taking Arya to the Wall, along with some
criminals, including three men from the black cells. One of these men can
easily change his physical appearance, and shows an inclination to pay
special attention to Arya. Could he be Syrio in a different disguise?
There are some basic similarities. Syrio claimed to be from Braavos. Jaqen
claimed to come from Lorath, but later contradicts this and tells Arya to
seek him out in Braavos. Both men seem to be good at killing. Both seem to
respect Arya a lot. Both men use the phrase "Just so" quite often. And Jaqen
was able to figure out that "Arry" was really Arya Stark. Could it be that
Syrio Forel was really a Faceless Man the whole time, masquerading as a
swordmaster for some unknown purpose?
But there are holes in the theory straight off. Yes, Syrio and Jaqen both
say "Just so" a lot. But this is a trademark phrase of the Free Cities.
Thoros, Salladhor Saan, Captain Groleo, Illyrio and Dany have all used the
phrase at times; there is nothing that remarkable about it.
Then there is the fact that both men come from Braavos. However, Syrio seems
to be a well-known personality, not an identity that Jaqen picked as a
simple cover. He claims to have been first sword to the Sealord of Braavos
for nine years. (GoT, pg. 224). Either Jaqen had maintained his disguise for
a long time, or he was stupidly telling lies that any fool could see
through. Also, Eddard thinks that Syrio has an 'excellent reputation.' (GoT,
pg. 317) This implies that Syrio is a well-known, long-standing personality
at King's Landing; not some false identity conjured out of nowhere.
It has been suggested that perhaps Jaqen killed the real Syrio and is simply
masquerading as him. If that is the case, why does he spend so much time
teaching Arya in King's Landing, and later submit to imprisonment and
transportation all the way to Harrenhal? What is his mission or objective
that he is doing these strage things under various guises, each time going
out of the way to help Arya? Jaqen does not seem like a man who can waste
time training girls at swords. His conversations with Arya at Harrenhal
imply that he is working on some mission that needs to be fulfilled. ("I
have promises to keep."--CoK, pg. 691}. So if Jaqen is Syrio, what is his
objective?
Finally, there is the question of when Jaqen had time to change out of his
Syrio-persona into the man with the physical characteristics we attribute to
Jaqen. Surely someone wmust have noticed this stark change in appearance,
even if he did it in his cell.
So, in conclusion, it is possible, even feasible, that Jaqen H'ghar is Syrio
Forel. However, some common sense assumptions seem to rule out the fact.
Who Is Coldhands?
Midway through A Storm of Swords, Sam and Gilly are saved by a strange
wandering man with black, cold hands and a mysterious power over birds.
Later in the book, Bran and company go underneath the Wall to join up with
this enigmatic figure. Sam and Gilly nickname him "Coldhands."
But who is Coldhands, really? Could he possibly be a character we have met
before? Or is he someone else entirely?
First, let's look at what description we have of him. From page 536:
"Brother!" The shout cut through the night, though the shrieks of a thousand
ravens. Beneath the trees, a man muggled head to heels in mottled blacks and
grays sat astride an elk. "Here," the rider called. A hood shadowed his
face.
...The rider wore no glove. His hand was black and cold, with fingers as
hard as stone.
The fact that Coldhands refers to Sam as 'brother' and wears black seems to
suggest that he is a member of Night's Watch. Beyond that, we can infer
nothing mroe from this chapter besides the fact that Coldhand rides an elk
and has some control over ravens.
From page 635, we learn a little more. Coldhands says that he was sent to
find someone, who turns out to be Bran. He also knows about the existence of
the Black Gate underneath the Nightfort. A quote:
"He wore blacks, like a brother of the Watch, but he was pale as a wight,
with hands so cold that at first I was afraid. The wights have blue eyes,
though, and they don't have tongues, or they've forgetten how to use them."
..."Why didn't you bring him through this Black Gate too?"
"He...he can't."
"Why not?"
"The Wall. The Wall is more than just ice and stone, he said. There are
spells woven into it...old ones, and strong. He cannot pass beyond the
 Wall."
Here, Sam implies that Coldhands does not have blue eyes. Therefore, we can
pretty much rule out the possibility of him being a run-of-the-mill wight.
Also, even though he dresses in black and calls Sam 'brother,' he cannot
pass beneath the Wall. Why? Let's review the candidates that have been put
forth as possibilities for Coldhands.
1) Benjen Stark
The most obvious possibility, and probably the one that immediately leapt to
every reader's head. Benjen has been missing for three books, but no body
has been found. For all we know, Ben is still out there with his four
surviving rangers. And someone buried the cache of dragonglass that Ghost
found on the Fist of First Men. Sam would not recognize Benjen; Ben had gone
missing before Sam arrived at Castle Black. Finally, this may be the reason
why the chapter is cut off before Bran meets Coldhands; Bran would recognize
Benjen and thus spoil the mystery.
However, Benjen has 'blue-gray eyes' (GoT, pg. 53), which may or may not be
what Sam meant when he said Coldhands did not have blue eyes.
It seems likely that Benjen is going to make a reappearance sometime in the
series, or, at the very least, we will discover what happened to him. He has
been referred to too many times for this not to happen.
The question is, of course, how Benjen developed his seemingly-magical
control over animals, and why he cannot go underneath the Wall. There are
hundreds of possibilities concerning this, but none have any evidence to
back them up. So, while Benjen is a likley candidate based on the
circumstances, there is still some confusion regarding him.
2) Stonesnake
A grizzled ranger from Shadow Tower who accompanies Jon and Qhorin to scout
the Skirling Pass, Stonesnake disappeared near the end of A Clash of Kings
when Qhorin sent up over a high mountain pass on foot as a last ditch effort
to reach the Fist and warn Mormont of what was happening with the wildings.
He has not been seen or heard from since, though he is listed as still being
alive in the appendix to A Storm of Swords. And in all likelihood, Sam would
probably not recognize Stonesnake; they were only on the Fist together for a
short time.
Beyond that, Stonesnake has the exact same advantages and drawbacks going
for him as Benjen does. He has a reason to wear black and call Sam 'brother.
' But it is still a mystery how he coudl control the animals and not go
under the Wall. So, if Coldhands is one of these two candidates, is is most
likely Benjen, simply because Benjen's character is still being referred to
and in the reader's mind, while Stonesnake is pretty much forgotten.
3) Craster's Son
For a long time, Craster has been leaving his sons out as a sacrifice to the
Others. But what if one happened to escape? There is no age given to
Coldhands, but if he is in his twenties to thirties, it is not that much of
a stretch for him to be one of Craster's sons from long ago.
However, Craster's daughters Gilly and Nella both seem to speak of the sons
as if they have witnessed their fate firsthand. (SoS, pg. 380). Nella, in
particular, calls wights 'Craster's sons.' Could one small boy really have
escaped this sacrificial ritual? It seems unlikely, and he would have no
reason to call Sam 'brother.' So one of Craster's sons seems an unlikely
candidate, albeit it still could be possible.
4) Ser Waymar Royce
It has been suggested that Coldhands might really be Waymar, the young
ranger who was killed in the prologue by Others, only to come back as a
wight to strangle Will. However, this is not even a remote possibility.
There is no conceivable reason why Waymar would kill his comrade Will, and
then later be helping Sam and Gilly. Also, Waymar's eyes were blue after he
was resurrected. (GoT, pg. 11). Unless his experienced both a change in
temperment and eye color, Waymar is not Coldhands.
5) Will
Another slim possibility for Coldhands is Will, the young
poacher-turned-ranger who watches as the Others slaughter Waymar, only to be
strangled by Waymar's wight. When we last left him in the prologue of A Game
of Thrones, Waymar's cold hands were clutching his neck.
But this is quite a strectch to assume that Will somehow survived this
encounter to become Coldhands, and quite contradictory to GRRM's style to
bring back a character so clearly and obviously dead. If Coldhands is a
black brother that we have met, Benjen and Stonesnake are both much more
likely possibilities.
Conclusion
In conclusion, every possible candidate for Coldhands put forth has some
sort of contradiction that defies explanation. While Benjen seems the most
likely candidate as of present, there are still several things that have to
be resolved before this makes sense. The reason for this, and the flaws in
Stonesnake's story, is because of an apparanent contradiction that Coldhands
is a brother of Night's Watch but cannot go underneath the Wall.
From the information we know, it seems more likely, as of present, that
Coldhands is a newly introduced character that we never met before his
appearance in Storm of Swords. Truly, this is a much more likely possibility
then sitting around trying to come up with implausible stories as to how
Benjen could possibly be Coldhands.
--
Giochi di ruolo, Fantasy, Tolkien, Castelli. Io impazzisco!!!  ^___^;
"La vendetta e' per i deboli e per gli inetti"
Ed L'Addolorato Fan Club TESSERA 01 Sono aperte le iscrizioni!
ICQ 132312979 - IAFO N° 189
Sto leggendo: "La Mano Sinistra delle Tenebre" di Ursula Le Guin
Dirk

 SPOILER su tutta la pubblicazione...
belle teorie, ma io vorrei sapere quando cavolo grmm si decidera' a far
uscire il prossimo libro!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fangorn nel tunnel
"che cosa c'e' in questo mondo che rende la vita degna di essere vissuta?"
Morte riflette' a lungo.
I GATTI - disse alla fine - I GATTI SONO GRAZIOSI

 SPOILER su tutta la pubblicazione...
Molto interessante!
Un esposizione certosina.
certo che con la traduzione in italiano, alcuni indizi ce li perdiamo 
(vedi Tansy...)
:(
grazie mille.
ciao
-- 
Patlabor

 diversamente?
quando il vecchio tully parla, mi sembra sia rimasto uguale. nella 
descrizione della bevanda , mi sembra sia stato cambiato...
ciao
-- 
Patlabor