Newsgroup: it.comp.giochi.action
Titolo: Epic in trouble





DESERVE ITS OWN THREAD


 


 


Koei e Silicon Knights i primi a partire con 
rimostranze, a quanto pare, la versione dell'engine data agli sviluppatori è, in 
confronto a quella vecchia di un anno usata con GEARS, mondezza


mondezza con supporto inesistente, garantito per 
contratto, da parte di epic, che sta causando ritardi e, per gli studios 
più piccoli che non possono riprogettare un nuovo engine o lavorare per 
modificare profondamente l'UE3, la cancellazione di giochi


 


BIA: Hell's Highway - delayed
Bioshock - delayed
Elveon - 
delayed/cancelled
Fatal inertia - delayed
Huxley- delayed
Lost Odyssey 
- delayed ?
Mass effect - delayed
MOH - delayed
Stranglehold - 
delayed
Rainbow vegas - ps3 version delayed
Too human - delayed
Turok - 
delayed
Frame City Killer - cancelled
Endless Saga - cancelled


 


The PS3 version of Fatal Intertia has been delayed due to 
"
difficulties
" with the Unreal Engine's performance on the Sony 
hardware. The game was originally designed specifically for the system, yet is 
deemed to be "
not running well enough
" according to a Koei 
representative. The Xbox 360 version is to be released ahead of it, as delaying 
it further while the PS3 version is fixed wasn't deemed necessary


 


http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20070719152327860026&releaseId=2006062316152843086


 


Next-Gen 
obtained a full copy of the 50-plus page lawsuit from Silicon 
Knights, which 
is actively distributing the document to news outlets. The 
suit also said 
that Silicon Knights has resorted to developing its own game 
engine. From 
the lawsuit: "Epic violated the Agreement with Silicon Knights 
by, among 
other things, failing to provide a working game engine, which has 
caused 
Silicon Knights to experience considerable losses and ultimately has 
forced 
Silicon Knights to spend its limited time and resources on building 
its own 
game engine rather than in developing its video game."
We contacted 
Silicon Knights' lawyer Chris Holland, who's a partner with San 
Francisco's 
Krieg, Keller, Sloan, Reilley and Roman. He said that he that 
the parties 
involved will soon be able to comment further, but right now the 
suit is too 
fresh to get into more details. "We stand strongly behind the 
allegations," 
Holland said in a phone interview.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6506&Itemid=2


According to a 
statement from Epic's Mark Rein sent to leading news
outlets including 
Gamasutra, the Unreal Engine 3 creator is the subject of
a lawsuit from 
licensor Silicon Knights, presumably regarding
UE3-utilizing Xbox 360 title 
Too Human.
Rein s statement, sent out to the media this afternoon, reads 
as follows:
This morning we were served with a lawsuit by Silicon Knights. We 
believe
the claims against us are unfounded and without merit and we intend 
to
fully defend against them.
The Epic VP continues: We d love to tell 
you more about it but
unfortunately our lawyers want us to save our comments 
for the courthouse
so we're going to do our best to comply with their 
wishes.
He concludes: In that vein we d appreciate if our friends in the 
industry
and media would refrain from asking us about the suit because we re 
only
going to say no comment. We just wanted to share the news directly 
before
the rumor mill starts churning.


Gamasutra has now obtained a copy of the lawsuit, which was 
filed in North Carolina district court and demands a jury trial on the grounds 
of breach of contract regarding Unreal Engine 3 licensing.


 


The Main Allegations


 


The suit initially alleges that: "Rather than 
provide support to Silicon Knights and Epic’s other many licensees of the 
Engine, Epic intentionally and wrongfully has used the fees from those licenses 
to launch its own game to widespread commercial success while simultaneously 
sabotaging efforts by Silicon Knights and others to develop their own video 
games."


 


It goes on to detail a number of specific alleged 
breaches of contract, particularly related to the delivery of Xbox 360 versions 
of the Unreal Engine 3 code. Epic's licensing document stated that a functional 
version of the engine would be available within 6 months of development kits 
being available.


 


Silicon Knights claims: "
The final 
development kit for the Xbox 360 was released in early September, 2005, such 
that Epic was obligated to release the functional Engine for that platform no 
later than March, 2006
."


 


The suit continues: "However, that deadline came 
and went without Epic providing Silicon Knights with a functional version of the 
Engine. Indeed, it was not until much later (
November, 2006, far too 
late for time and cost-sensitive projects like SK’s videogames) that Epic ever 
provided anything resembling working Xbox 360 code to its licensees. Even at 
that belated date, though, Epic did not provide any guidance to licensees in how 
to implement the code it finally released
."


 


Epic's Own Games Taking Priority?


 


Another area of concentration is Epic's 
simultaneous development of its own titles alongside engine development. The 
lawsuit charges: "In particular, at the same time that Epic was supposed to be 
supporting its many licenses to the Engine (Silicon Knights’ among them) Epic 
was also racing to complete and market its own games: “Unreal Tournament 2007” 
and “Gears of War.""


 


It goes on to explain: "The support Epic had 
misrepresented it would provide Silicon Knights... became increasingly 
inconsistent as both Silicon Knights and Epic progressed toward the target 
launch date for their respective games. Epic has attempted to avoid its 
obligations under the Agreement by representing to Silicon Knights that the 
support,
modifications, or enhancements to the Engine – all of which are 
essential to the Engine’s proper function – were “game specific” and not “engine 
level” adaptations, and that Epic therefore need not provide them to any of its 
licensees, including Silicon Knights."


 


It's claimed: "That representation is false, as 
evidenced in part by the fact that Epic later provided nearly all the Gears of 
War code to all of its licensees, at no extra charge, in a belated effort at 
damage control."


 


Silicon Knights Now Making Own 
Engine


 


Further on in the document, it's implied that 
Silicon Knights is pursuing alternatives to Unreal Engine 3, despite showing 
multiple versions of Too Human using the engine.


 


It's explained: "Epic’s actions and the 
consequent increasing delay and cost of development of Silicon Knights’ own game 
caused by the 
unworkable Engine
 forced Silicon Knights in May 
of 2006 to embark on the time and resource intensive task of writing its own 
game engine, the very task it had hoped to avoid be entering the Agreement with 
Epic."


 


Later on in the suit, its added: 
"
Silicon Knights was forced to decide whether to continue waiting for 
Epic to provide it with a commercially functional version of the 
Engine
. Under the Agreement, Silicon Knights found itself in the 
position of being ostensibly “bound” to use Epic’s non-functional product, even 
though doing so would result in the breach of its obligations to its publishing 
partners. Rather than let that happen, in May of 2006, with the Engine two 
months overdue and under the looming risk of funding for Too Human drying up if 
no workable engine could be found, 
Silicon Knights had no choice but to 
abandon the Engine and begin creating its own game engine (“the Silicon Knights 
Engine”
). By that time, Epic had shown neither the ability nor the 
intent to fulfill its obligations under the Agreement."


 


It's also revealed: "Progress on the Silicon 
Knights’ Engine continues to date and, at this time, 
the Silicon Knights 
Engine is completely independent of Epic’s Engine
 and certainly derives 
no benefit from the unworkable source code provided by Epic."


 


"In fact, at this juncture the Silicon Knights 
Engine should, at a minimum, be described under the Agreement as an 
“Enhancement” of Epic’s Engine, which, as defined by the Agreement, is 
technology developed by Silicon Knights that improves upon the Engine and is 
therefore the property of Silicon Knights. Moreover, as development of the 
Silicon Knights Engine continues, the amount of code from Epic’s Engine employed 
by Silicon Knights continues to decrease. After the release of Silicon Knights’ 
Too Human, all Epic code will be removed from the Silicon Knights 
Engine."


 


E3 2006 Issues Documented


 


A key point of contention is the E3 demo of Too 
Human, which was not well received - the suit alleges: "The final development 
kit for the Xbox 360 was released by Microsoft in early September, 2005, meaning 
that Epic was obligated to deliver a fully operable version of the Engine to 
Silicon Knights by no later than March, 2006."


 


"That delivery date is significant, since 
compliance by Epic would have given Silicon Knights time to prepare an 
appropriate demonstration version of its Microsoft Xbox 360 game, Too Human, for 
the very important industry trade show, E3, two months later in May, 
2006."


 


It continues: "Epic 
apparently was able to 
achieve a very useable version of the Engine for the Xbox 360 – the version that 
it kept to itself, for use only on its Gears of War game
 (as discussed 
below), to the detriment of Silicon Knights and Epic’s other licensees, as set 
forth in more detail below. Epic’s plan to avoid its obligations and hoard all 
of the necessary functionalities not only harmed Silicon Knights and all of 
Epic’s other licensees in the industry, but also gave Epic a clearly unfair 
advantage in the industry."


 


How so? "That advantage was nowhere more evident 
than at E3 2006, where Gears of War was awarded “Best Game in Show” and garnered 
nothing but laudatory press. By contrast, Silicon Knights – one of the only 
other [Unreal Engine 3] developers to publicly display a playable demonstration 
of its game – saw Too Human roundly criticized in the videogame press for its 
technical problems and generally unpolished appearance. The damage to Silicon 
Knights caused by Epic’s misconduct was manifest, because E3 attendees were able 
to compare Too Human with another game running ostensibly the same game engine, 
Gears of War, with vastly superior results."]


 


Other Developers Also Allegedly 
Affected


 


The suit also charges: "Upon information and belief 
other game developers have been faced with a similar dilemma as Silicon 
Knights."


 


It continues: "To the extent that Epic contends any 
such third party developers purportedly were able to utilize the Engine during 
the early development cycle (when Epic had warranted Silicon Knights would have 
a functional engine but failed to deliver one), upon information and belief 
those third party developers broke away from the unworkable code that Epic had 
delivered and created their own distinct engines, just as Silicon Knights was 
forced to do."


 


PS3 Engine Also Involved?


 


Separately to the high-profile Too Human, which is 
Xbox 360 exclusive, Silicon Knights had licensed the engine for the PlayStation 
3 and PC as well.


 


Though other games are not prominently mentioned in 
the suit, so it's unclear which game this is referring to, Sega signed a deal 
with Silicon Knights in 2005 for an unspecified next-generation title, and it's 
noted in the charges:


 


"More recently, 
Epic has breached its 
Agreement with Silicon Knights yet again by missing the six-month deadline for 
release of an Engine that works on the Playstation 3. Final development kits for 
that console were released in and around mid-August, 2006, making the functional 
Engine due to Silicon Knights in February, 2007. Silicon Knights has received no 
such Engine from Epic
."


 


Silicon Knights' Allegations, Desired 
Results?


 


The final part of the lawsuit describes the 
specific charges Silicon Knight is making, including 
Fraud/Fraudulent 
Inducement, Negligent Misrepresentation, Intentional Interference with 
Contractual Relations, Intentional Interference With Prospective Economic 
Advantage, Breach of Warranty, offences under the North Carolina Unfair and 
Deceptive Trade Practices Act, Common Law Unfair Competition, Unjust Enrichment, 
Rescission or Reformation of Alleged Contract, and Breach of Contract, as well 
as Declaratory Relief.


 


It then asks for the following to be ruled: "(1) 
the Agreement between Epic and Silicon Knights for a license to the Engine is 
null and void; (2) Silicon Knights owes no obligations to Epic under any 
purported agreement by Silicon Knights to license the Engine; (3)
Silicon 
Knights is not required to use the Engine in developing any current or future 
games; (4) Silicon Knights may alter the Engine without restriction; (5) Silicon 
Knights is under no obligation to disclose or share any alterations Silicon 
Knights makes or causes to be made to the Engine with anyone, including 
Epic."


 


It continues: "(6) Silicon Knights owes no monetary 
or other obligations to Epic and/or any of its business partners associated with 
the agreement to license the Engine; (7) the game engine developed by Silicon 
Knights is totally independent of the Unreal Engine 3 and therefore is the sole 
property of Silicon Knights, or, alternatively, the game engine developed by 
Silicon Knights constitutes an “Enhancement” under the terms of the Agreement, 
and therefore is the sole property of Silicon Knights under the terms of that 
Agreement; and (8) Silicon Knights owes no obligations, financial or otherwise, 
to Epic in connection with and/or related to the Silicon Knights 
Engine."


 


The document then asks that "The Court award 
damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set 
forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its 
Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."


 


Microsoft, Silicon Knights' Reactions


 


Silicon Knights' Denis Dyack, when reached for 
comment by industry site GameDaily BIZ, noted: "We stand behind everything in 
our complaint and believe it is highly unfortunate that Epic forced us into this 
situation. We would rather spend our time focusing on making great games, but as 
stated in our complaint, Epic simply refuses to acknowledge the inadequacies of 
the Unreal Engine 3 code it provides to its licensees, and refuses to accept the 
fact that its code has caused serious damage not only to Silicon Knights, but a 
number of other developers in the industry. We look forward to successful 
resolution of our claims in this court proceeding."


 


A statement subsequently released to Gamasutra by 
Silicon Knights added: "Denis Dyack, President and Founder of Silicon Knights, 
explained, “Our strong preference is to focus on making games, not be in court. 
Unfortunately though, as explained in our lawsuit, we have had extensive 
problems with the Unreal Engine 3 that Epic has been unwilling or unable to 
rectify. For more than a year, we have been trying to reach an agreement with 
Epic to resolve these issues without resorting to litigation, but were unable to 
come to reasonable terms with Epic. Regrettably, we are now forced to go to 
court in order to achieve satisfaction. We remain hopeful, however, that we can 
reach a reasonable business resolution with Epic at some point.”"


 


Gamasutra also received an official statement from 
Microsoft regarding the lawsuit, which occurs between two of the major 
developers that are currently publishing games via the firm. However, it simply 
states: "Microsoft is not involved in or a party to this litigation, therefore 
has no comment."] 


 


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14759


 


http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16868




GameDaily BIZ
 has now heard from Silicon Knights president Denis 
Dyack. 




"We stand behind everything in our complaint and believe it is highly 
unfortunate that Epic forced us into this situation. We would rather spend our 
time focusing on making great games, but as stated in our complaint, Epic simply 
refuses to acknowledge the inadequacies of the Unreal Engine 3 code it provides 
to its licensees," he said, "and refuses to accept the fact that its code has 
caused serious damage not only to Silicon Knights, but a number of other 
developers in the industry. We look forward to successful resolution of our 
claims in this court proceeding."


http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/19/silicon-knights-sues-epic-over-unreal-engine-3-inadequacies/


 


 


 







ROTFL


la situazione è cosi grottesca che sony dopo aver 
pagato per usare l'engine ha dovuto mettere i propri programmatori a lavorare 
per la epic


ed epic per riconoscenza le ha dato un paio 
di mesi di esclusiva


ridicoli


http://www.nlgaming.com/nl/asp/id_10076/nl/newsDisp.htm


 


Revolutionizing the industry with the advent of the Unreal Engine when 
first launching the Unreal franchise several years ago, 
Epic Games has joined 
with SCE to fully optimize the Unreal Engine for PS3 development to assist 
developers using this engine to accelerate game creation and maximize 
performance. Already underway, this optimization currently affects seven 
developers
 using the Unreal Engine to create 20 games already in the works 
and with many more to come. 


 


senza notare che i giochi con UE3 
licenziato su pc non fan differenza e sinora graficamente son lammerda 
più totale


 







ROTFL persino per roboblitz..


 


We're also getting a lot of press for being one of the first Unreal Engine 
3 games out, and that's another significant tech risk that is paying off. 

Developing the game at the same time UE3 was being developed was non-trivial. 
The engine is great, but it wasn't fully functional when we started work on 
RoboBlitz a year ago.
 We were putting all of our eggs in Epic's basket by 
relying on them to come out with features we needed by the time we needed them. 

Sometimes we had to implement the features ourselves while we were 
waiting
, but in the end, this too was worth the risk.


Working with unfinished cutting-edge technologies always leads to 
production delays, 
unforeseen design/art/code changes to accommodate a 
new build of the tech, and more production delays. Unless we were working on an 
established franchise, 
any publisher would have aborted RoboBlitz a long time 
ago.


 


http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070117/nakedsky_01.shtml


 


 


alla epic stanno comprando dei salvagenti, si stan 
ritrovando nella merda sino al collo


 



 Endless Saga - cancelled
[CUT]
Orcamerda sono in ufficio e non ho il tempo di leggermi tutta la vicenda,
ma vorrei capire cos'è successo e cosa si sta rischiando. Com'è possibile
che giochi ormai finiti come Bioshok vengano ritardati? Che tipo di
problemi stanno incontrando con l'UE3? Problemi di ottimizzazione? E' per
quello che R6V fa così cacare come performance, pure in una scena con 2
poligoni in croce?
-- 
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 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 poligoni in croce?
in sintesi
epic ha fornito engine incompleti, mentre versioni complete esistevano (e 
son state usate nei suoi giochi, a partire da gears of war)
epic si rifiuta di dare assistenza come da contratto
epic è accusata oltre che violazione dei termini contrattuali ed altra 
vagonata di cose, anche di concorrenza sleale favorendo il uo gioco su tutti 
gli altri che usano l'engine in 'affitto'
epic ha usato i soldi ottenuti affittando l'engine incompleto per realizzare 
GEARS e UT3 e dando a questi giochi la forza lavoro invece di usarla per 
adempiere agli obblighi contrattuali di assistenza
rischi?
le cose più banali:
rescissione dei contratti
obbligo a fornire assistenza e/o porzioni di codice
le cose peggiori:
megamultoni salati per concorrenza sleale
risarcimenti multimilionari agli sviluppatori di giochi cancellati/ritardati
ora è presto per poter tracciare un quadro, ma credo che a qualcuno alla 
Epic tremino i polsi 

 Epic tremino i polsi
Ah, se le cose stanno come dici, staranno anche sgommando diverse
mutande...


 Mica scemi, eh?
Mi sembra che scemi lo siano, se tutto questo comporta una figura di merda
oggi e domani per i prossimi che li volevano scegliere, per la comunity in
generale e se non fosse altro per le cause che devono vedersi affrontare
(chissà chi è il genio dietro questa "strategia"..)
Cmq va detto, che ho letto troppo spesso il nome dei Silicon Knight,
considerando la storia di ritardi colossali di Eternal Darkness (e IMO
la porcata dilettantistica che ne è uscita nonostante i secoli intercorsi)
e dello stesso Too Human (non ricordo se pure questo doveva essere
un progetto per Nintendo64 come il primo..) ad un primo momento mi
son detto.. vabbè, se sono questi a lamentersi............

 mutande...
aspettiamo di vedere che succede al processo
perchè se epic ha fatto questo, ed ha volontariamente rallentato i giochi di 
terzi per favorire i suoi, direi che ha fatto un danno incalcolabile a tutta 
l'industria e sopratutto a noi utenti
stay tuned

 (chissà chi è il genio dietro questa "strategia"..)
Hai voglia! Infatti mi sembra una mossa troppo idiota da parte di Epic,
vorrei capirne di più. Come potevano sperare che la cose non venisse alla
luce e che nessuno si lamentasse??


 DESERVE ITS OWN THREAD
[]
Brutta storia ragazzi...
-- 
Everybody be cool...YOU be cool! (cit.) 

 Brutta storia ragazzi...
Ho letto tutto e sinceramente mi pare una gran cazzata messa in piedi da 
Silicon Knights.
Dubito che Epic abbia fatto mosse senza avere un contratto blindato e non 
vedo come SK possa ritenersi esente dai pagamenti dell'engine, anzi 
appropriarsene, avendo fatto delle modifiche sulla base di UE3.
Resta poi da vedere la fornitura dell'engine a che build si ferma, e questo 
c'è per forza sul contratto. E mi rifiuto di credere che Epic abbia negato 
le build succesive a chi le avrebbe dovute avere da contratto. Insomma è una 
storia che fa acqua da tutte le parti (tranne che per i discorsi 
dell'assistenza, lì tutto può essere).
In ogni caso ricordate che in america e' possibile patteggiare privatamente, 
quindi non credo che ci saranno grosse conseguenza per Epic, comunque vada.
Al contrario se i SK stanno cercando di fare i furbi potrebbero essere 
annientati da Epic (che ha dollari a palate=avvocati spaccaculi).
Gira un detto in USA: You're nobody 'till somebody sues you.
Claudio, puoi darmi conferma? ^____^


 Ho letto tutto e sinceramente mi pare una gran cazzata messa in piedi da Silicon Knights.
Non avevo letto tutto il thread, e nemmeno l'ho fatto ora (non c'ho voglia)
ma ho letto troppo quel nome (come dicevo) e considerandoli dei (pesanti)
cialtroni (e non so nemmeno da chi siano mantenuti) avevo qualche sospetto..
Poi non so come stiano le cose, ma sinceramente passo...
mi basta che esca UT3 ;-P 

 mi basta che esca UT3 ;-P
Questa causa non arriverà in tribunale. Non con quelle pretese.
