Newsgroup: it.fan.musica.pink-floyd
Titolo: Oh Maggie, Maggie what did we do?

Esattamente 25 anni fa, il 2 aprile 1982, cominciò la guerra tra
Inghilterra e Argentina per le Falkland.
Colgo l'occasione per ricordare la lapidaria frase che ho attaccato
sotto la foto di S.B. che fa le corna al ministro belga:
"Did they expect us to threat them with any respect?"
E ne potrei citare molte altre.
Tutto si può dire a quell'album, tranne che non sia pieno di grandi
contenuti.
RD
--
Il mio nuovo blog:
http://eclipsed.ilcannocchiale.it

 contenuti.
Sě, hai ragione.
E comunque "The final cut" a me piace tantissimo anche musicalmente, suoni
ed atmosfere. Ho notato che anche in periodi di ripetuti ascolti di
quell'album (come ad esempio quest'inverno, in auto o con l'mp3), non
m'annoio mai.
L'unica un pň "superflua", pensandoci bene (per le mie orecchie,
s'intende!), č "One of the few" che, pure non esistesse, non toglierebbe
nulla al disco.
Per dire - e qui sputatemi pure addosso, fa lo stesso :-)) - io preferisco
quell'LP a "Wish you were here".
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 contenuti.
Sicuramente.
Però vorrei fare un'osservazione forse un po' provocatoria.
Visto che ho, ad esempio, una "Brain Damage" (che da sola, secondo me, 
vale tutto Final Cut messo insieme, e molto oltre) che mene faccio di 
Final Cut?
Dei bei testi da *leggersi* la sera per riflettere, perché anche 
musicalmente preferisco quasi quasi una martellata nelle parti basse...
-- 
iGOR

 contenuti.
Lo sto riascoltando molto in questo periodo (appena ricomprato). Un album
straordinario. E capisco sempre meglio le critiche a The Wall (che continuo
comunque a preferire).


http://eclipsed.ilcannocchiale.it
fregauncazzo

 Threat significa "minaccia".
qui invece hai ragione  :)

 portagoglio 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
LoL....vabbuò ià....chist' è proprio strunz'  :)  (cit.)

 what did we do"
Ma da quando in qua?
Ha ragione Bluesky.
Maggie what *have we done*.
Stasera guardo il booklet per conferma.
--
Seldon
http://digilander.libero.it/floyder
Il Web di it.fan.musica.pink-floyd


 Stasera guardo il booklet per conferma.
Il mio booklet conferma. Uodevuidan, Meghi uodevuidan!

 Stasera guardo il booklet per conferma.
guarda, non ho visto nè booklet nè niente, andavo solo a "memoria 
uditiva" e tutt'ora se me lo canto in mente continua a venirmi, nella 
frase finale, "maggie what did we do" (specifico, SOLO nella frase 
finale, dopo "what happened to the post war dream").
A questo punto mi hai fatto venire il dubbio e ho cercato un pò di 
lyrics su google, e lì paradossalmente ho trovato entrambe le versioni 
(anche se, ad onor del vero, con un netto vantaggio di "what have we 
done" rispetto a "what did we do")
la cosa curiosa e simbolica è che per fare la ricerca mi è venuto 
automatico scrivere "the post war dream + roger waters + lyrics" anzichè 
"the post war dream + pink floyd + lyrics" ...vorrà dire qualcosa ??  :P

 finale, dopo "what happened to the post war dream").
Ok, dubbio risolto sia per te che per bluesky che per lorenzo: buttate 
il booklet e ascoltate il pezzo (io l'ho ascoltato or ora)...è "what did 
we do" tutta la vita   :)

 Il mio booklet conferma. Uodevuidan, Meghi uodevuidan!
Lorè...sto parlando *solo* dell'ultima frase, quella che inizia con "oh 
maggie", subito dopo di "what happened to the post war dream", quella 
dove allucca insomma  :)

 e ascoltate il pezzo
Farollo stasera.


 

Ma stiamo parlando di The post-war dream?
Se si manc p'o' cazz, è "maggie what have we done".

 fregauncazzo
Mi fa piacere :)
RD


 done" rispetto a "what did we do")
Vabbé, alla fine ci ho messo solo una H ballerina in più in "treat"...
a memoria me li ricordo i testi, dai.
E comunque "OH MAGGIE, MAGGIE WHAT DID WE DO" lo dice. Me lo ricordo.
Cercate voi dove, ma lo dice!


 Cercate voi dove, ma lo dice!
Ma non è che vi state confondendo con la frase
qui evidenziata presa dalla title track?
...
And if I open my heart to you
And show you my weak side
*What would you do*
Would you sell your story to Rolling Stone
...
No perchè il finale di "The post war dream", se è di quello che si parla,
almeno a memoria, dice
"ou megghi, megghi uot ev ui dan"
cioè
"Oh Maggie, Maggie what have we done?".
--


 
E anche di grande musica!
Ne acquistai la cassetta per 3000 lire in quel di S. Marino, nel luglio 
'83...avevo 13 anni
Non sapevo nulla dei componenti dei PF ma il mix di suoni, rumori e le 
voci "misteriose" di quel disco mi incantarono per gli anni a venire. E 
sentivo che Waters doveva dire qualcosa di molto importante...ma la 
connessione con il caso Falkland la feci anni dopo.
E' l'unico loro album che riascolto periodicamente dopo tanti anni, 
tanto che ne ho acquistato anche un cd coi demo.

 quell'LP a "Wish you were here".
Anch'io
Tutti i fan sanno che WYWH fu fatto uscire dietro enormi pressioni della 
casa discografica, con l'intento di bissare il successo di TDSOTM. E i 
risultati a lungo andare si sentono, escludendo ovviamente la 
title-track e la prima parte di Shine On You Crazy Diamond.
TFC invece fu fatto uscire per precisa volonta' di Waters. E' a tutti 
gli effetti un'appendice di The Wall, ma in varie parti, come pathos, lo 
supera.
Un album cupo sicuramente, non psichedelico sicuramente, ma molto 
coinvolgente
E direi, ancora molto attuale - sia come suoni, che come tematiche trattate.
Basta con l'ostracismo degli Ummagummari! :)


 dove allucca insomma  :)
Sono andato molto piů semplice: tutte le volte che dice Maggie, dopo dice
"what have we done"...

Rosa', ti sei perso qualche thread di qualche tempo fa.
Riassumo: Massimo è un maleducato rompicoglioni e le persone dabbene non
dovrebbero rispondergli.
P.s. La Prestigiacomo s'è scrociata??

 
Non vorrei fare l'avvocato del diavolo, ma anche a me pare che alla fine 
dica "what did we do" anche per sottolineare una differenza sintattica:
What have we done e' passato prossimo e indica un'azione da poco fatta e 
il cui effetto dura nel presente. Quindi potrebbe riferirsi all'allora 
recente invasione delle Falkland per riprendersele.
What did we do invece e' past tense, passato remoto e indica un'azione 
fatta e finita. Il fatto che sia messo alla fine potrebbe essere 
significativo di un dubbio che Waters esprime su TUTTO cio' che la Gran 
Bretagna ha fatto dalla II guerra mondiale in poi. "Cos'abbiamo fatto 
noi come nazione per arrivare a questo (da quando cioe' i giapponesi 
attaccarono la GB in Scozia, sul fiume Clyde), cioè per essere 
eternamente nella merda, coi giapponesi che si suicidano e noi che 
attacchiamo l'Argentina?
Il booklet qui non credo faccia testo, come non fa testo nel caso del 
brano seguente Your Possible Pasts, dove ci sono interi versi che non 
vengono cantati, perche' "tagliati" nella versione finale dell'album, ma 
nel CD coi demo che io ho, si sentono eccome, così come si sente The 
Hero's Return part II
Nulla di sorprendente, trattasi di "licenza poetica".
Per rispondere a Massimo-fregauncazzo: forse non ti sei accorto che 
tutte le rockstar, e tutti gli artisti di fama in genere sono evasori 
fiscali egoisti drogati picchiatori di mogli ecc ecc, poi c'e' chi si 
converte all'Islam come Cat Stevens credendo di purificarsi dai peccati 
di gioventu' e chi invece sceglie di continurare a fare il suo mestiere 
di "entertainer" piu' o meno dignitosamente. A me interessa che Waters 
faccia dei buoni dischi, poi posso essere in disaccordo con le sue idee, 
ma non lo devo votare come invece ahime' molti fanno con gli evasori 
fiscali pluriinquisiti drogati fancazzisti ex bombaroli picchiatori 
piduisti che non paghi di essersela sfangata coi giudici, hanno anche la 
faccia tosta di sedersi sugli scranni del parlamento, e mica a fare dischi.
Che vadano a cantare nelle balere, chè magari si scoprono talenti 
nascosti e nascono nuovi Roger Waters!

> Per rispondere a Massimo-fregauncazzo:
Vedi risposta a daurjax.

 (...)
O Daurjax, mi associo a quanto detto da Huyg... quel "massimo" appare essere
un frustratello da web.
Piuttosto, mi vien da pensare che magari è qualcuno di noi, sotto falso
nick, che si diverte a far ravvivare l'NG di tanto in tanto :-)
Perchè davvero no, non può esserci una personalità così "naturalmente
stupida". Dev'essere per forza artefatta :-)
Quanto ai dubbi sull'ultima frase, ("l'urlo disperato", come l'ha ben
definita Silence in the Studio, poco sopra) di "The post war dream"...
stasera tornando a casa, me la sono riascoltata due-tre volte, e non saprei
proprio cosa dire. Adesso m'avete messo il dubbio.
Ho provato ad ascoltarla sia pensando, intensamente, a "have we done", che -
viceversa - a "did we do"... e il risultato non cambia :-/
Sull'album (ce l'ho in vinile :-) il testo riportato è "have we done", ma
sappiamo benissimo che non vuol dire niente e che spesso i testi riportati
sulle copertine non collimano esattamente con quanto contenuto nel disco.
C'è quel "dooooo" finale, a spegnersi, che non fa capire bene se c'è una
enne "mangiata" (un classico, per l'inglese cantato), o è proprio "do" e
basta.
Vabbè, proverò a dormire lo stesso, stanotte :-)))


 P.s. La Prestigiacomo s'è scrociata??
Se nelle pubblicità di Mai Dire Martedì passassi su RaiTre a vedere
Ballarò, sapresti anche questo! :D


 "Oh Maggie, Maggie what have we done?".
ma perchè devi andà a memoria ?? sientatell' e ti levi il dubbio, il 
"what did we do" nella frase finale è chiarissimo.... t'o' giur' !!!

 Se si manc p'o' cazz, è "maggie what have we done".
eeeh... o' cazz' ma ci vuole assai a mettere un attimo su' il pezzo e 
ascoltarlo a volume accettabile ? ...il refrain è "what have we done" ma 
il *finale* è "what did we do" tutta la sacrosanta vitaaaaaaaaa !!!!  :)

 "what have we done"...
n'ata vota !!  :) ..non tutte, alla fine dice what did we do, 
guagliu'...ma che ce vò a mettere n'attimo stu' cazz' e' CD ??  :P

 nascosti e nascono nuovi Roger Waters!
spero proprio di no... ne basta uno, e ne avanza anche!
-- 
http://cubelogic.org/ustr_ga
"Her - she can go quietly, by disease or a blow
 Him - just fucking kill him, I don't care if it hurts."

 ma che gruppi ascolti? :-D
i rapeman!
--
http://pguiducci.com

 guagliu'...ma che ce vň a mettere n'attimo stu' cazz' e' CD ??  :P
A Baiche'!
Il CD non l'ho risentito, non ho avuto tempo. Ho controllato sul booklet, e
c'č scritto Uodevuidan. Tu mi hai detto "Ma no, solo sull'ultima frase", e
io ho scritto che non avevo fatto distinzioni, e avevo controllato tutto.
Poi oggi pomeriggio ascolterollo.

 e nascono nuovi Roger Waters!
Vedi, caro amico, il 3d che cretinetti ha aperto, parla di guerra. Parla di 
morte.Di sangue versato dai diciannovenni di entrambe le parti per il 
pressapochismo di qualche dittatore militare argentino. Il cretinetti non sa 
nemmeno di cosa parla, ed allora per correttezza ed in onore di quei 300 
argentini, militari di leva, affondati con il loro incrociatore Belgrano, è 
cosa buona e giusta farli notare la differenza tra Inghilterra e Gran 
Bretagna, affinchè non creda che tutti siano così  elementarmente subdotati. 
Che parli di Rrroma maggica e di Avanti Popolo alla riscossa, non me ne può 
fregare di meno delle sue tendenze socio-politiche. Ma davanti a quei poveri 
morti, di quella guerra e di tutte le guerre che l'Uomo ha da sempre 
combattuto, che chini la testa e rimanga in silenzio.
Le sue povere parole qualunquiste, ignoranti, vuote, banali, stupide, 
insignificanti, inutili, sbagliate, segaiole, inadeguate rispetto al Dramma, 
dovevano rimanere all'interno della sua mente. Una volta enunciate, scritte 
con il desiderio che altri le leggessero, lo espongono alla gogna. Non è che 
perchè c'ha una tastiera tra le mani sia obbligato a digitare qualcosa. 
Nella maggio parte dei casi su Usenet si leggono cagate pazzesche, 
spacciandole per realtà, ci si crede onnipotenti, finchè trovi qualcuno che 
ti prende a calci sui denti e ti fa notare che Inghilterra non è etc, etc.
Di Roger, mi sta bene come componente Floyd. Mi sta bene la sua musica. 
Delle sue tiritere anti star-system, della sua profonda depressione, del suo 
cerchiobottismo, mi interesso quanto guardare la pittura che si asciuga su 
di un wall.
 Non ho miti :-), tengo moglie, figlia, cane, moto, ed una vecchia quercia 
che al momento sta vegetando. (non necessariamente in quest'ordine :-)
Stammi bene
Ciao
Massimo

 Ballarò, sapresti anche questo! :D
Non gradisco i programmi di gossip...
...comunque, è un bel bocconcino a piede libero (e beccate 'st'analisi
politica di prim'ordine!).

 guagliu'...ma che ce vň a mettere n'attimo stu' cazz' e' CD ??  :P
Confermo :) what did we do
Lo so io non c'entro un emerito c, ma me l'hanno fatta scaricare apposta per 
sentire ste 4 parole.. 

 Poi oggi pomeriggio ascolterollo.
Confermo sia che sul booklet c'è scritto "What have we done", sia che lui
canta "What did we do". Si apra il dibattito.

 sentire ste 4 parole.. 
me l' *hanno* ??  :) ...lo puoi dire che so' stato io che ero alla 
ricerca di proseliti  ;)

 Si apra il dibattito.
e che dibattito ? la cosa mi pare chiara, il booklet non riporta 
esattamente il cantato, io e daurjax ci basavamo sul cantato, tu Vito e 
Carlo invece sul booklet, chiarito questo direi che è tutt'a post'  :)

 ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:AfPQh.13982$tx6....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

Vabbè che fa :) 

Massimo ha scritto:
[cut]
Ma davvero continui con 'sta stronzata di "Inghilterra" anziché "Gran
Bretagna"?
Mamma mia quanto sei messo male...
"Giustamente preso a calci nei denti"?
Ma sai quanto cazzo me ne sbatte della tua correzione da finto
precisino che non sa cosa dire e si appiglia alle stupidaggini?


 ha scritto:

cavolo hai ragione. A sentirla in cuffia è proprio "what did we do". mea culpa


Beh a dire il vero non e' proprio una stronzata. Se vai in Scozia e 
parli con uno scozzese ti dira' che non si sente inglese, anzi c'e' 
sempre una certa rivalita' e prima ancora dello Union Act del 1776 (mi 
pare) si son fatti la guerra senza pieta' le due nazioni.
Ora in Scozia sta guadagnando consensi lo Scottish National Party che 
non e' becero come la nostra lega e mira all'indipendenza totale della 
nazione.
Non a caso esistono 2 diverse squadre di calcio!
Il termine Gran Bretagna e' piu' corretto anche se noi l'abbiamo sempre 
chiamata Inghilterra, forse mutuandolo dal francese Angleterre e i 
francesi hanno combattuto parecchio con gli inglesi.
In effetti loro lassů si considerano globalmente British (abitanti della 
Britain), poi ciascuno nella sua nazione si definisce English, Scottish, 
Irish a seconda di dove abita.
Volendo ancora essere piu' precisini, se includiamo l'Irlanda del Nord 
dovremmo parlare di Regno Unito.
Poi e' chiaro che nelle missioni militari di solito si muove come sol 
uomo, per cui dicendo Inghilterra in realta' si indica tutto il Regno.
I Pink Floyd e Waters in particolare sono tipici esponenti di un certo 
culturame English.

 chiamata Inghilterra, forse mutuandolo dal francese Angleterre
Tanto per continuare sulla rotta dei precisini, i francesi usano Angleterre
come noi usiamo Inghilterra, ovvero a proposito e spesso anche a sproposito:
ma chi usa a proposito, usa tranquillamente anche Grande Bretagne e Royaume
Uni.

 esattamente il cantato,
Eh. E come mai?
Cambiato all'ultimo? Scelta precisa? Io ho il remaster, Uoterz ciaveva avuto
tutto il tempo di cambiare il testo del buclet... e non l'ha fatto. Uai??

 Beh a dire il vero non e' proprio una stronzata.
[cut]
Il concetto in sé non è una stronzata.
Usarlo come correzione che merita "gogna", "calci nei denti", oltre
appellativi poco simpatici è invece palesemente una stronzata.


 guagliu'...ma che ce vņ a mettere n'attimo stu' cazz' e' CD ??  :P
minc.. un giorno di ferie andato e... me so scurdat..
:(
 
 
-- 
Seldon
http://digilander.libero.it/floyder
 
Il Web di it.fan.musica.pink-floyd

 "what did we do" nella frase finale č chiarissimo.... t'o' giur' !!!
basta.. 'o cd ce l'ho a casa mia (sono da mi matre ora) ma se me lo giuri
allora vuol dire che č cosě.


 Basta con l'ostracismo degli Ummagummari! :)
Valerio HT:
Ma quale "ostracismo"? 
Battuta sia pur con "la faccina" del tutto fuori luogo.
(siiiiii, lo so cosa sono l'umorismo, l'ironia, la ludicità etc. etc., 
lo so già, grazie! Come so che spesso ci si fa schermo di queste cose 
per punzecchiare, e nel caso si provochi l'irritazione altrui, tirare
fuori il solito argomento: - l'ironia, questa sconosciuta - oppure: 
"ma non hai visto la faccina"? Come no, ho visto anche chi tira il 
sasso e poi nasconde la mano...).
Vi è una specie di fenomeno ricorrente, da me sperimentato empiricamente 
da quasi 40 anni:
Quando le sensazioni, le emozioni, il vissuto relativo ad un
pezzo/disco/autore/interprete/ di una persona NON sono condivise da 
un'altra persona (e ANCHE VICEVERSA, si noti bene!), invece di prender 
nota che cio' avviene a causa *della differente personalità* che due o
più persone hanno tra loro, e quindi in definitiva rendersi conto che 
stare a "battagliare" sui propri amori musicali è effettivamente cosa 
tanto sensata quanto dire che l'amore di un mio amico a me fa schifo, e
e viceversa il mio amore a lui fa schifo: senza rendercene conto, si
scivola inesorabilmente sulla insinuazione che "la mia personalità è 
quella *giusta*, la tua invece no". Dicevo, invece di capire che quello 
che a noi dà la musica dipende anche, e moltissimo, dalla nostra 
*individuale personalità*, si perdono mesi, anni, decenni a cullarsi 
nella illusione di un mitico "confronto" che arricchisca entrambe le 
nostre sensibilità estetiche. In parte ciò accade, ma è un processo 
quanto mai *scarsamente efficiente*. Perché in fin dei conti esiste 
dentro di noi qualcosa che è *solamente nostro*, unico. 
Quel quid per cui a me A Saucerful Of Secrets versione in studio è uno
dei due pezzi in ambito rock/pop che hanno portato all'estasi, e che 
invece a te lo fa percepire in maniera totalmente diversa. 
Ma che senso ha stare a perdere anni e persino decenni per dimostrare 
all'altro che il suo amore è una sua "illusione"? Se lo SENTO, per me 
è reale: stiamo parlando di ESTETICA, ossia di qualcosa che NON è 
SCIENZA, NON è RAZIONALITA', un qualcosa che acquista la sua forma, 
il suo contenuto e il suo valore *all'interno della nostra individuale
mente*: INDIVIDUALE MENTE, lo metto anche in maiuscolo, e fa 
pure un gioco di parole con INDIVIDUALMENTE.
Poi possiamo razionalizzare *a posteriori*, anzi, quasi sempre è cio' 
che facciamo, come quando io per una decine di volte almeno ho cercato 
di spiegare il valore di ASOS originale in maniera tecnica. Ma
indipendentemente dal rilievo degli argomenti che possiamo tirare in 
ballo, resta il fatto che in realtà cerchiamo di "giustificare
razionalmente", o meglio PSEUDO-Razionalmente, ciò che a seconda 
dei casi ha per noi grande valore o meno.
Le stesse considerazioni possono essere fatte per The Final Cut. 
A me per esempio dell'importanza dei testi di Waters su quell'album 
sinceramente non me ne importa un fico secco. A me le sensazioni 
le emozioni le passioni l'amore la fede la da il SUONO. E dunque 
quello che puo' darmi The Final Cut dipende dal suo SUONO.
Almeno dalla metà degli anni '70, ma probabilmente già prima, 
mi sono accorto che la gran maggioranza della MIA musica preferita 
era *strumentale*. Ciò accade sia con Mozart e Beethoven, sia coi 
Pink Floyd. A ME, accade. E NON pretendo d'imporre il mio vissuto
estetico, le mie passioni, ad altri. C'è chi non riesce ad apprezzare 
la musica se non è anche cantata. Non me ne voglio fare un problema, 
perché nella vita sono ben altri i veri problemi... che io abbia un
certo tipo di reazioni sensoriali/emotive al suono che sono MIE, e 
non "patrimonio dell'umanità tutta", lo so almeno da 35 anni.
Certo, l'ambiente culturale, l'epoca di formazione, le circostanze 
personali contano. E infatti nel 1970 quasi tutti i Floyders erano 
"Ummagummisti", e ancora nell'inchiesta fatta da Ciao 2001 nel 
1973, all'epoca dell'uscita di The Dark Side Of The Moon, 
il pubblico di QUELLA rivista (fra cui io stesso) scelse 
Ummagumma come album rock più importante di tutti i tempi, 
per la cronaca seguito a ruota da In The Court Of The Crimson King. 
Ma già alla fine dello stesso decennio la situazione era radicalmente 
mutata. 
The Wall ha avuto comunque un immenso successo, mentre 
The Final Cut, nonostante la sbandierata contiguità col doppio album 
precedente, ha avuto solo una piccola frazione di quel successo. 
Non è qui mia intenzione mettermi ad analizzare e discutere sui perché 
di questa differenza di "trattamento" fra The Wall e The Final Cut, 
anche se le mie idee in proposito ce l'ho...
NON sto a "sparare" contro gli appassionati di The Final Cut, 
e mi piacerebbe essere ricambiato. 
Saluti
-- 
|*** it.fan.musica.pink-floyd *** ; se non l'hai gia' fatto,
| leggi per favore il manifesto del NG...  :-)
| quando ti e' possibile, leggi anche le FAQ del NG

 
ma LOL  :) ...cmq il giuramento alla fine č stato supportato anche da 
Lorenzo, da Carlo e da ValeriaLL, nonchč dai dubbi di Bluesky  ;)

 contenuti.
gran disco TFC... penso il migliore di Waters solista..... ops! ;-)
Comunque sono serio, gran disco!
-- 
Shine on!
Andrea
---
www.andersoncouncil.it
per scrivermi leva le dita dal naso
---
SIb FA SOL MI

 e mi piacerebbe essere ricambiato.
A me mi garbano sia Umma che TFC: che faccio?

 A me mi garbano sia Umma che TFC: che faccio?
Per te, me e quelli come noi c'è una nave che parte per qualche isola
isolata, guidata da Simone Cristicchi.
Tutti ci prendono per pazzi.
E questa camicia è scomoda.


c'è ancora posto? 


Secondo me è una nave enorme, ma sai com'è, gli Ammagammari e i
Defainalcattari ci vogliono ghettizzare...

 A me mi garbano sia Umma che TFC: che faccio?
Valerio HT:
Per me non è mica un problema che ti garbino entrambi gli album, 
e a maggior ragione non vedo perché dovrebbe essere un problema 
per te... la personalità individuale è qualcosa di assai complesso, 
che non si può ridurre in semplici schemi e modelli lineari. 
Al più è possibile individuare delle tendenze statistiche, ossia, per
fare un esempio concreto, è cosa probabile che chi ama particolarmente 
la proto-mini-suite "ASOS" del 1968, Ummagumma non solo "live" ma 
anche (e forse soprattutto...) "studio", i dischi più sperimentali dei
corrieri cosmici, gli Henry Cow, il Robert Wyatt di "The End Of An Ear" 
(quello di Rock Bottom è preferito dai più), i Faust, il Frank Zappa 
meno "pop", il Robert Fripp delle Soundscapes, Pietro Grossi e il 
suo "Computer Music", Luciano Berio di "Laboryntus II", dicevo, 
chi ama queste cose, *forse*, sarà più portato ad apprezzare opere 
"musicali" tendenzialmente poco "pop", magari con forme musicali 
diverse dalla forma-canzone per evoluta che sia. Ho parlato di 
*tendenze*, NON di rapporti strettamente vincolanti. 
So che ci sono persone che apprezzano molto sia ASOS che The Final Cut: 
non credo proprio che siano la maggioranza dei Floyders, ma ci sono. 
E NON ho mai pensato che vi sia "qualcosa di sbagliato" nella
personalità estetica di queste persone.
Al più potrei ipotizzare che, FORSE, nessuno dei due album sia
apprezzato con la stessa fortissima intensità con cui io apprezzo la
proto-mini-suite di A Saucerful Of Secrets. Ma è una *congettura*, 
seppure non credo completamente campata per aria: si pensi per 
analogia all'amore per una donna. Possiamo effettivamente amare 
due o anche tre donne diverse contemporaneamente (non tutti, 
comunque). Ma quanto hai un amore FORTISSIMO, enorme, smisurato, 
quasi sicuramente è verso un'unica persona. Perché l'impiego di energie 
affettive-psichiche per questo amore fortissimo è troppo grande, in
genere, per permettere un secondo amore *contemporaneo* con gli 
stessi estremi d'intensità e profondità. 
Ovviamente, tale paragone fra amori umani e amori per oggetti d'arte 
regge solo sino ad un certo punto, perché si tratta di forme di
affettività influenzate da fattori diversi fra loro: gli amori
"astratti" per le opere artistiche presentano un "grado di libertà"
assai maggiore. Ma è anche vero che difficilmente possono coinvolgere 
sino ai livelli talvolta patologici e assai pericolosi degli "amori per
le persone" (che, soprattutto se non ricambiati, possono portare a
conseguenze molto dannose... suicidio compreso).
Per cui, non ci vedo nulla di "patologico" se ti piacciono sia Ummagumma 
che The Final Cut. A me piacciono molto certe "canzonette" dei Beatles 
(anzi, a dire il vero mi piace quasi tutto quello che hanno fatto i
Beatles... tranne qualche pezzo come "Obladì Obladà"). 
Ripeto, NON è in alcun modo un problema.


 E questa camicia è scomoda.
Valerio HT:
Evidentemente non ho la capacità di riuscire a farmi capire... 
Vedi sopra la risposta data a Dario "Son Of Nothing".
Personalmente trovo che tu sia una delle persone più sensate ed
equilibrate del newsgroup, quindi non mi è mai saltato in mente 
che tu sia "pazzo". E' semmai più facile che "il pazzo" sia io... ;-)
Ho semplicemente trovato insolita la tua scelta quando in quella 
inchiesta du belin ( ;-p ) organizzata da Dario, tu hai messo nei 
primi album dei Pink Floyd da te scelti come primo ASOS e come 
secondo The Wall: ho detto "scelta insolita", cosa BEN diversa 
da "scelta da pazzi". Che sia "insolita" non è opinione ma pura 
constatazione statistica. Ma NON ho mai attribuito una qualsiasi 
valenza negativa e tantomeno "di follia" a quella tua scelta.
Ciao


 c'è ancora posto?
Valerio HT:
Vedi risposte date a Son Of Nothing e a Huyg... 
E' un problema che NON ESISTE, semplicemente. 
Ci mancherebbe che uno si debba sentire "emarginato" solamente 
perché gli piacciono sia Ummagumma che The Final Cut ! 
Siamo persone, con la loro dannatamente complessa personalità, 
affettività, con le loro personalissime situazioni... mica degli
algoritmi per la risoluzione di qualche problema di fisica. 
Ognuno di noi è unico e quindi, che sia poco o tanto, comunque 
diverso da chiunque altro. E ciò vale benissimo anche per la propria 
personale sensibilità musicale.


 Evidentemente non ho la capacità di riuscire a farmi capire...
Maronn... e quant' sie pesant...

 e i Defainalcattari ci vogliono ghettizzare...
Valerio HT:
Non voglio affatto "ghettizzare" alcuno, e credo che anche i seguaci 
del tardo Waters non vogliano alcun "ghetto". Ho solamente espresso 
la MIA personale sensibilità musicale, e a differenza di Napra io NON 
ho mai sostenuto che cio' che io trovo bello interessante appassionante 
importante etc., debba esserlo anche per altri. Le nostre passioni
musicali (e veramente non solo quelle...) riflettono in buona parte ciò 
che sta nella parte intima della propria personalità ed affettività.
Quindi, cerchiamo *almeno* di eliminare questo equivoco. 
Tutto ciò comunque suggerisce qualche considerazione:
Forse io NON sono capace di comunicare quello che intendo dire, 
o forse è la stessa natura di cio' che costituisce l'argomento del mio 
messaggio in risposta a Cymbe_line a rendere molto difficoltosa 
la comprensione del mio tentativo di comunicazione, e tra l'altro 
Usenet non è affatto un mezzo "ottimale" di comunicazione.
Infine - è cosa banale, quasi lapalissiana, ma proprio per questo 
rischiamo di non ricordarcene... - tanto più si è *simili* nella
personalità e nel tipo di affettività (in senso lato), tanto più è
facile intendersi a vicenda.
Ciao


 Maronn... e quant' sie pesant...
Valerio HT:
Belin, l'orario riportato dal mio newserver circa la ricezione del tuo
post è esattamente ore 00.00.00 ! Complimenti! Dario, per anni ho 
cercato di far arrivare un messaggio esattamente all'istante zero di 
un giorno e non ci sono mai riuscito!
Saluti


 Quindi, cerchiamo *almeno* di eliminare questo equivoco.
Nessun equivoco, per me, credevo fosse chiaro che ero ironico!

 da "scelta da pazzi".
Feci anche di peggio in passato, e tutt'ora lo rifarei: scelgo tra Saucerful
e The Wall solo se costretto, perché nella mia personale scala sono alla
pari.
Comunque, ripeto: ironizzavo sui "pazzi".
E confermo che apprezzo molto anche Tiziano Ferro.

 
questo e' fuori discussione

 Nessun equivoco, per me, credevo fosse chiaro che ero ironico!
Valerio HT:
Infatti era chiaro, ma non vi è ironia senza motivazione. 
Quando io sono ironico, è perché sono in disaccordo su qualcosa 
e/oppure qualcosa non mi piace. Puo' darsi che tu sia ironico 
quando qualcuno dice cose che ti piacciono, ma ne dubito. 
Se non c'era alcun equivoco e hai capito che non divido gli apprezzatori 
di musica dei Pink Floyd in due insiemi distinti e separati, ma che
stavo solamente parlando del MIO modo personale di vivere la musica, 
allora devi anche aver capito che non mi turba affatto se a te piacciono
sia ASOS che Tiziano Ferro, nel senso che non me ne "scandalizzo", 
lo trovo solamente abbastanza originale e insolito, ma questo potrebbe 
anche essere un pregio... 
In realtà penso proprio che tu invece abbia frainteso, perché secondo me
se tu non avessi frainteso NON ti avrebbe dato alcun fastidio ciò che ho
detto. 
Vattelo a rileggere, magari. 
Oppure forse sbaglio completamente io e tu non hai per nulla frainteso 
ma NON sopporti la mia personalità e le mie passioni, che mi spingono 
talvolta ad esprimermi con certi toni. E' un tuo diritto indiscutibile. 
E se anche tu come Dario o altri mi trovate ormai troppo "pesante", 
allora posso portar via le balle, così non vi anguscio più. 
Paolo Mazapegul assai spesso sostiene gli stessi valori musicali in 
cui io credo, ma indubbiamente è molto più "lieve" e "soft", solo un 
tantino discretamente canzonatorio a volte. 
Ma tieni presente che di me probabilmente tu non sai un belino, 
quindi non hai idea del perché da qualche tempo sia divenuto, 
come dice Dario, alquanto "pesante". Neppure coloro che credono 
di saperlo in realtà sanno tutto.
Ma questo, mi dirai, sono cazzi miei, e se rompo ad alcuni il belino 
sul NG per voi solo questo conta. Legittimo diritto.
Se do' fastidio a qualche gran testa di cazzo egoista menefreghista
e umanamente squallido me ne batto altamente il belino, ma mi 
dispiacerebbe molto invece dare fastidio a te. 
Se l'indirizzo riportato nel campo "From:" degli headers delle tue mail 
è reale, forse prossimamente ti scrivo una mail. Che non ha certo lo 
scopo di romperti il belino, ma di farti sapere alcune cose. 
Se nun te ne frega niente della mail, me lo dici e non te la scrivo.
E scusami per averti rotto il belino, non era proprio mia intenzione.


 TFC rispetto a The Wall. 
Valerio HT:
Sotto questo aspetto, indubbiamente anch'io considero il suono di The
Final Cut molto buono, migliore di quello di The Wall. 


On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:51:41 +0200, cymbe_line ha scritto:
[omissis]
Non c'entra col contenuto del post... qui volevo solo dirti che non mi
risulta chi vi siano mai stati altri "Cymbaline" sui NG musicali
italiani, e quindi se vuoi puoi benissimo ritornare al tuo primo
nickname. Se poi su "alt.music.pink-floyd" saltasse fuori qualcuno 
con lo stesso nick, nessuno problema, manco per la Netiquette... 
purchè tu non utilizzi lo stesso nick su un NG dove già quel nick 
esiste. 
Ho visto persino persone che avevano come nick Gilmour o Waters... 
uno che usava "Echoes" in quanto patito di quella suite, ma sul 
NG "it.discussioni.sessualita", qualche anno fa...
Qui a Zena si potrebbe poi fare un giochetto di parole... 
cym_beline (il cym non credo significhi qualcosa a Zena, ma le beline 
si... meglio non dirti cosa...  ;-) ).
Insomma, io ti suggerisco di ritornare al vecchio ma bello "Cymbaline", 
poi fai come preferisci...
Ciao


> Saluti
Ma quante copie avrebbe venduto, in quanti lo  avrebbero ascoltato se fosse 
stato pubblicato da una sconosciuta band? Credo sia questo il punto. Alcune 
opere sono intrensicamente "belle", al di la di chi le produce, e da li 
prenderà avvio una carriera, sedersi sugli allori o pensare che grazie alla 
forza del nome tutto sia consentito, mi lascia alquanto perpresso e 
contrariato. Jim Morrison ha saputo comporre ottime liriche da perfetto 
sconosciuto, idem il menestrello Dylan, ma se se fossero proposti come 
maestri di pensiero al di fuori delle loro competenze, avrebbero fatto ben 
misera fine.
Di Water mi piace il suono dei testi, a me piace il sound dei Floyd, se 
cerco Verità e Conoscenza, mi rivogo ai Vangeli, o chi per loro. Non spreco 
il mio tempo con le banalità alla Jovannnottti, la guerra è brutta e la pace 
è bella, siamo tutti fratelli, com'è bello volersi bene, viva la figa cubana 
a 5 usd.
Quale è la 4°di Ummagumma che non ti piace?
Saluti ricambiati 

 E scusami per averti rotto il belino, non era proprio mia intenzione.
L'indirizzo è valido ma non wind bensì tiscali.
Comunque, ripeto: mi dispiace se ti ho fatto inquietare, non è questione di
pesantezza né di pretesa di aver capito o di giudicare la tua sensibilità
artistica. E' capitato in passato che abbiamo discusso (io e te, ma anche
con l'intervento di altri, Porky su tutti) sul fatto che la "piattaforma"
del gusto musicale degli individui possa essere ampia non solo
nell'approfondire una direzione ma anche nello spaziare (magari
approfondendo di meno) in più direzioni. Io personalmente mi ritengo un
ascoltatore che, provenendo da un background mainstream (uazzameriganboi), e
interessandomi ora a musica più elaborata, ho mantenuto una certa
sensibilità sulla musica mainstream (che ancora ascolto con molto piacere,
vedi Tiziano Ferro, o Elisa per dirne un'altra), sensibilità che (ancora?)
non ho su musica più elaborata. E quindi mi ha fatto spesso strano (e sì,
siamo in disaccordo su questo) tutte le volte che ho visto scrivere (a te,
ma non solo a te, e uscendo da ifmp SOPRATTUTTO non a te) espressioni del
tipo "A chi piace Wish You Were Here probabilmente questo non piacerà, a chi
piace Ummagumma sicuramente sì", perché, apprezzando entrambi, non sapevo
bene come orientarmi. Così come mi fa strano veder scrivere cose che
riuniscono sotto una stessa egida (che di solito è "merda") tutto il
mainstream, paragonando le Scissor Sister a Massimo Di Cataldo, Daniele
Silvestri a Lee Ryan e i Muse agli Sugarfree. Ma questo aspetto non riguarda
certo te, e spesso non riguarda neanche ifmp.
Comunque, detto questo, e dette soprattutto anche tutte le discussioni che a
questo proposito abbiamo fatto nel corso di anni, mi sono concesso, in un
thread che tutto sommato ha spaziato per ogni dove, di lasciarmi andare ad
una battuta neanche troppo mirata, un po' un tanto al chilo, così per
ridere. Ma sono ben conscio che per fare dell'ironia ci sia il bisogno di
essere in un contesto ironico, che apparentemente non è, almeno per te. Hai
dedotto dalla mia battutaccia (a 'sto punto sì, -accia) un sacco di cose che
non penso e che certo non volevo dire, quindi parmi ovvio che il mio
ironizzare sia stato quantomeno fuori luogo. Di questo mi dispiace davvero,
e ti porgo le mie scuse. In tanti anni (non poi tantissimi, ma tanti) di
Usenet mai ho scritto qualcosa con lo scopo di irritare alcunchì (accento o
no??) e mi dispiace davvero di averlo fatto, specialmente su di te e su
quelli come te (perché se Massimo si irrita per quello che scrivo, beh, poco
male davvero).

 diversi? Magari anche solo inconsapevolmente. 
Valerio HT:
Però in effetti su "The Final Cut" gli altri due rimanenti membri
dell'ormai fittizio gruppo (lo dice lo stesso Waters, secondo il 
quale i Pink Floyd come gruppo non esistevano più addirittura 
già da "Animals") fanno ben poco: qualche breve assolo per Gilmour, 
qualche effetto sonoro procurato da Mason. Quindi non è possibile 
considerarli co-autori dell'opera. Wright poi non faceva più parte 
neppure del "gruppo fittizio" e non c'entra nulla con quel disco.
Per me, ripeto, la cosa è indifferente: NON attribuisco alcun
particolare "previlegio" ai giudizi degli autori sulle proprie opere. 
Credo che in molti casi un *buon* musicologo sarebbe senz'altro 
più attendibile, ma i musicologi più seri e impegnati hanno il "difetto" 
di occuparsi relativamente poco di musica rock.


 Ne acquistai la cassetta per 3000 lire in quel di S. Marino
abiti in zona S. Marino?
-- 
http://pguiducci.com
"I've got all this electrical stuff, I can't follow it..."

 questo???) "un autentico orrore" e via deliziando.
io preferisco TFC a TW. il primo ha solo un brano orribile mentre il
secondo ne ha un po' troppi per i miei gusti. sembra che molti degli
scarti li avevano gia' rifilati in TW. 


 onorare un contratto discografico...
Ummagumma e' un album seminale, con una notevole importanza storica ed
artistica. ne il fatto che gli stessi autori l'abbiano in seguito
fortemente criticato, ne il tuo personale punto di vista, cambia il
corso della storia stessa. ovvero, gli artisti e gli interi generi
musicali che hanno preso in gran parte ispirazione proprio da quel
disco, rimangono. questo non significa che l'album ti debba piacere per
forza, intendiamoci.
non puoi dire lo stesso ne di TW ne di TFC, ad esempio. allo stesso
modo, questo non significa che ti debbano piacere di meno, o che sei
tenuto a buttarli al cesso. 
in genere il problema di questo tipo di dicussioni, come anche quella
recente sui Jesus And Mary Chain, e' che si fa confusione fra il mero
gusto personale ed i tentivi di un'analisi storica delle opere. ma e'
anche opportuno sottolineare che una discussione sui gusti e' alquanto
sterile, mentre una discussione sull'importanza storica di un'opera e'
gia' infinitamente piu' interessante. 


 E confermo che apprezzo molto anche Tiziano Ferro.
<terrore>aaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!</terrore>
scherzo :-)
-- 
http://ustrega.wordpress.com/
"Her - she can go quietly, by disease or a blow
 Him - just fucking kill him, I don't care if it hurts."

 gia' infinitamente piu' interessante. 
Valerio HT:
Per fare un'analisi storica-artistica (ripeto: storica E artistica)
delle opere musicali, in particolare quelle poste al di fuori dei filoni 
principali, dal "mainstream", occorre anche NON avere certi limiti 
nella propria concezione di cosa sia o possa essere la musica, 
NON essere abbarbicati su criteri vetusti, NON avere un'estetica
musicale piena di schematismi, di cosa sia e di cosa non sia 
una "idea musicale". E naturalmente occorre anche avere una buona 
"infarinatura di base" musicale, possibilmente non limitata nel tempo 
e nello spazio geografico, anche perché noi adottiamo UNA particolare 
teoria musicale, ma altri popoli/culture ne hanno di diverse dalla
nostra, e comunque anche in Europa/America esistono teorie musicali 
alternative almeno dall'inizio del '900. Bisogna anche essere capaci di 
decodificare una "struttura musicale", di qualsiasi tipo essa sia. 
Questo sarebbe cio' che occorre, poi nella pratica credo che la gran 
maggioranza anche degli appassionati "impegnati" di musica non 
abbia tutti questi requisiti... me compreso.
Però su questa menata del "gruppo che fa sperimentazione perché 
non sa suonare e/o non ha idee", che talvolta è anche vera, ho avuto 
qualche esperienza... chi dice così di Ummagumma, ma NON dice 
esplicitamente che proprio non gli va la sperimentazione, si suppone 
per logica che dovrebbe essere maggiormente soddisfatto da
speimentazioni condotte da autori *ben colti e preparati* musicalmente. 
Bene, io ho fatto la prova. Su un paio di tizi qui di Genova che
sostenevano la solita solfa di "periodo sperimentale dei Pink Floyd 
uguale musica scadente perché i PF la facevano solo perché incapaci 
di comporre/arrangiare/suonare delle normali canzoni, poi quando hanno 
imparato qualcosa ecco, allora si che è venuta fuori della buona
musica...". Cosa ho fatto?
Semplice: li ho messi davanti agli altoparlanti e come dischi invece di 
Ummagumma vi ho messo opere di STOCKHAUSEN, di BERIO, 
di EDGAR VARESE, di JOHN CAGE. Risultato: le trovavano ancora 
più insopportabili e "meno musicali" di Ummagumma studio.
Ma questo dimostra che NON era l'impreparazione dei Pink Floyd 
a determinare "la scarsa qualità delle loro sperimentazioni", 
bensì erano proprio LORO, questi critici del periodo sperimentale 
dei Pink Floyd, che NON APPREZZANO LA SPERIMENTAZIONE 
e la musica "fuori dai canoni convenzionali" in genere! Sia che si 
tratti di A Saucerful Of Secrets dei Pink Floyd, sia che si tratti di un
"Kontakte" o un "Mikrophonie" di Karlheinz Stockhausen.
Problemi loro. Io da quella "estetica vetusta" mi sono schiodato 
quasi 40 anni fa.
Ciao e Buona Pasqua!


 di occuparsi relativamente poco di musica rock.
Il che la dice lunga sulla loro attendibilita'.
Se ne occupano poco-niente perche' per molti di loro il rock "non è musica".
Ma la non-musica contemporanea, invece, merita tutta la loro attenzione.
Che palle.

 
Ma no, mi trovavo al mare coi miei a Fano quell'anno e andammo in gita a 
S. Marino

 
Vero. Ti sei accorto che gia' verso la fine del film Pink, gia' 
impazzito, e in fuga dalla folla inferocita, si rifugia in un cesso e 
canticchia "do you remember me? How we used to be? Do you think we 
should be closer?" che poi e' il ritornello di Your Possible Pasts.
Come dice anche Valerio HT, l'unica facciata che tiene da capo a fondo 
e' la prima. Le altre, sono un po' discontinue, con delle perle isolate.
Quale sarebbe il brano orribile di TFC? Not now John per caso?

 profonde e "sentite" di quelle di Jovanotti, dai.
beh, penso che Jovanotti sentisse molto le sue liriche quando cantava
"La mia moto". In quanto a profondita', invece, penso tu abbia ragione.


 In cosa secondo te Ummagumma gli e' superiore, se lo č?
mazapegul:
si tratta in entrambi i casi di album con una notevole importanza
storico-artistica. sono comunque d'accordo nel ritenere TPATGOD come
quello piu' importante. 
io Ummagumma lo preferisco, ma qui' si tratta della mia personale
percezione estetica, ovvero di cose importanti soprattutto per me.


 volta esercitato sulla musica ambient in generale, 
premesso che la parola prog mi provoca spesso un certo prurito alle
parti basse (LOL), forse piu' che prog e' meglio dire kraut-rock in 'sto
caso... ossia i primi dischi dei Tangerine Dream, Popol Vuh, Klaus
Schulze, Kraftwerk e via discorrendo. Forse sbaglio anche perche' non
conosco bene la materia ma l'etichetta "prog" mi fa pensare ad altre
cose.


 cose.
il termine prog e' alquanto vago, pensa che molta gente considera
proprio il prog tedesco come il vero prog (intendendo in particolare
proprio i primi lavori degli artisti da te citati). ma non credo abbia
molta importanza stabilire con esattezza cosa sia prog e cosa no. in
ogni caso, a me piace l'approccio anarcoide-radicale dei critici Al
Aprile e Luca Mayer nel libro "La Musica Rock-Progressiva Europea". 


 Quale sarebbe il brano orribile di TFC? Not now John per caso?
yes.


 "La mia moto". In quanto a profondita', invece, penso tu abbia ragione.
Beh, ma tu sei rimasto a 15 anni fa!! Da allora...
...
...è peggiorato notevolmente.
1...
2...
3...
...CASINO!!
Gimme five!! All right!!

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 In cosa secondo te Ummagumma gli e' superiore, se lo è?
Valerio HT:
Ummagumma ha portato più in là la sperimentazione iniziata con 
The Piper e proseguita con A Saucerful Of Secrets; rispetto a The Piper 
vi è sia un'evoluzione della sperimentazione stessa, che una quantità 
assai maggiore di sperimentazione: quasi tutti i pezzi di Ummagumma, 
sia disco "live" che disco "studio", sono PROPRIAMENTE "sperimentali". 
Mentre su The Piper at The Gates Of Dawn il pezzo realmente sperimentale
e seminale è "Interstellar Overdrive", che rompe completamente con la 
forma canzone (ed è quasi l'unico pezzo di The Piper che lo faccia,
mentre su Ummagumma la gran maggioranza dei pezzi è ormai al 
di là della "forma canzone", anche lo stesso Astronomy Domine in
versione live assume una forma diversa, grazie anche ai tempi dilatati 
e alle sognanti linee aggiunte da Wright). Poi vi sono Astronomy Domine 
di The Piper e "Pow R. Toc H.", a loro modo abbastanza sperimentali. 
Il resto è costituito da canzoni certamente originali, con spunti
creativi e insoliti, spesso con nuove sonorità, ma cio' non basta a
definire una "Chapter 24" o un "Flaming" come "pezzi sperimentali".
Inoltre, la creazione di ampie e spaziose atmosfere adatte a stimolare 
la creatività *personale* dell'ascoltatore, era stata solamente
abbozzata in The Piper, mentre viene sviluppata particolarmente 
e migliorata sia su "ASOS" mini-suite del 1968 sia sull'album Ummagumma 
nel suo complesso.
Quelli sopra, sono i motivi e le analisi razionali o che tali tentano di
essere.
Quanto alla questione di cio' che io sento, di cio' che mi ha dato
Ummagumma, la risposta è molto più semplice:
IO SONO UMMAGUMMA. La mia personalità musicale s'identifica 
con quel disco (anche con altre opere, in genere di autori non 
propriamente "pop" ne' "rock"). I pezzi di Ummagumma mi appaiono 
molto più "MIEI" che non dei loro autori effettivi.
Certo, io sono anche i "Canticles fo Ecstasy" di Hildegard Von Bingen, 
e sono pure il terzo concerto brandeburgese di Bach, e sono pure 
i primi due movimenti della settima sinfonia di Beethoven (e tutta 
la nona sinfonia), e sono pure il Peer Gynt op.46 e 55 di GRIEG, 
e la Sagra della Primavera di Stravinskji, e "Hyperprism" di Edgar
Varese", e "Trois Gymnopedies" di Erik Satie, e "Gesang der Jünglinge", 
"Kontakte", "Mikrophonie" (1 e 2), "Mantra", "Himmelfahrt aus Klang" 
(tutte di Karlheinz Stockhausen), e "Lux Aeterna" di Lygety, e
"Ascension" di John Coltrane, e "Kind of Blue" di Miles Davis, e 
"Satz Ebene" da Irrlicht di Klaus Schulze, e tutto Zeit dei Tangerine
Dream, e "In Den Garten Pharaos" dei Popol Vuh, e "Concerto delle menti" 
dei Pholas Dactylus, e "The Gates of the Paradise" di Robert Fripp che
proprio tu mi avevi segnalato a inizio 2000, quando ancora non lo
conoscevo...
Saluti


 molto più "MIEI" che non dei loro autori effettivi.
Valerio Bovary!

 Valerio Bovary!
Valerio HT:
No. Sono Ummagumma ma più di qualsiasi cosa sono 
SOMETHING ELSE nelle registrazione del 1968 in studio 
di A Saucerful Of Secrets. 
