Newsgroup: it.fan.musica.lucio-battisti
Titolo: Quando s'alza il vento

Amarsi è questo escludere
d'essere i soli al mondo,
i soli ad esser soli amando,
sterminandola l'invincibile armata...

"Raffaella" <raffaell...@NOSPAMlibero.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:YQ45c.68262$Kc3.2...@twister2.libero.it...

è sempre un popolo straordinario...
egicer

"Raffaella" <raffaell...@NOSPAMlibero.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:YQ45c.68262$Kc3.2...@twister2.libero.it...

Brava , complimenti.
Prima di insultarti voglio essere sicuro: la tua frase è di gioia, per la
vittoria della sinistra in Spagna?

 su un OT alquanto pesante
NOn hai risposto alla mia domanda : sei felice per la vittoria della
sinistra spagnola?


E tu Auriga cosa ne pensi per la vittoria della sinistra spagnola?.
Ciao.
--------------------------------
Inviato via 
http://arianna.libero.it/usenet/

 vittoria della sinistra in Spagna?
Vai a trolleggiare da altre parti...

 Ciao.
Una sciagura.
La tomba della democrazia.
Ciao

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BVg5c.68999$Kc3.2...@twister2.libero.it...

'Nciai capito gnente.
E comunque sia, se vuoi discutere di politica con me devi prima levarti la
maglietta.
Signor paladino del nulla .

 maglietta. Signor paladino del nulla .
Io non voglio affatto discutere di politica con te.
Ti faccio solo notare che sei solo tu ad aver avuto
un linguaggio e un atteggiamento ostile dicendoti
pronto a insultare Raffaella. E la cosa per me finisce qui.


Arcidaccordo,se ne accorgeranno gli spagnoli per lo scempio.



Temo che se ne accorgeranno tutti i governi del mondo occidentale.
Non è una questione di destra o sinistra .
Ciao

 Quello che volevano gli attentatori.
In effetti non sarebbe stato impaurito se tutta la gente si fosse
rinchiusa per bene in casa a triplice mandata evitando di manifestare e
poi di andare a votare. Anzi dovevano staccare tutte le comunicazioni,
spengere le tivù e stare zitti e non se ne parli più. ... ...
-- 
questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news
 segnala gli abusi ad 
ab...@newsland.it

 spengere le tivù e stare zitti e non se ne parli più. ... ...
Ora che hai scritto, scusa ma non trovo niente di meglio (senza offesa eh)
la pirlata , se vuoi possiamo discuterne seriamente.
Ciao

 >
..................................
E da 10 anni che la democrazia , fa schifo al CAZZO...!!
non serve a niente..non ci protegge neanche...!!
Quei coglioni  di politicci ano alargato...e apperiti le frontiere dell
Europa , che e diventata il scesso Del Mondo.....
Abbiamo solo il dirito..di Pianggere e deffilare comme
pecore idiote & imbecille con  il falco in mano ascceso ,
quando uccidono uno di Noi.....
piu di questo non possiamo  fare.....!!
Posso perdonare ( un amico ?) che mi fa le corne !
Ma una Pugnalata in Dietro e quelli che uccidono i nostri figli NO !
Gracie a la Democrazia , IO voto il piu a Destra possibille....
Per colpa di loro la gente e sempre Piu Razzista ...e....
 il couscous mi fa veleno da 2 anni...
Scuzi Oggi o le palle Gonfie....
ilario
Ps...occhi aperti non e finita.....


E gli spagnoli dovevano invece lasciare al governo una manica di cinici
nepotisti che li ha trascinati in una guerra di aggressione? :-)
Ciao!
Giacomo
Ps. per Ilario: l'odio chiama odio. Se vogliamo finirla con il terrorismo e
gli attentati, dobbiamo iniziare noi occidentali ad essere più rispettosi e
meno aggressivi. Abbiamo sfruttato per secoli il resto del mondo, ora è
tempo di restituire qualcosa. La democrazia avrà i suoi difetti, ma
l'autoritarismo ne ha molti, molti di più.
P.p.s. Scusate l'OT!

 l'autoritarismo ne ha molti, molti di più.
Io trovo veramente comico quello che scrivi . NOn è comico in sè : è comico
perché appena viene contestualizzato alla situazione mondiale diventa una
dichiarazione di principio a favore degli Usa e del mondo occidentale .
Va bene che a dottrina ti hanno detto che è autoritario Bush , gli Usa,
Berlusconi ecc ma uno che si dice fan di Lucio Battisti dovrebbe ragionare
con la propria testa. O al limite essere coerente con le proprie idee.
Ti auguro di avere delle figlie e piuttosto che vederle spose a un americano
o altro occidentale autoritario come loro, ti auguro
di vederle felici  mogli di qualche talebano o di qualche figlio o nipote di
Saddam.
driiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
peccato è suonata la campanella e tu devi tornare a dottrina...
Non ricordo chi fosse in questo ng, ma ricordo che era presente un lettore
di Nietzsche.
Ecco, quello che scrivi , soprattutto riguardo alla restituzione di quel
qualcosa , è stato trattato da Nietzsche.
Lo chiamava , in soldoni, il cancro dell'occidente-
Io lo chiamo Tafazzismo ( quel personaggio di Aldo Giovanni e Giacomo,
quello che si tirava le randellate sui coglioni )
Ciao

 è sempre un popolo straordinario...
 egicer
---------------------------------------------------
Concordo, sono nostri fratelli.
Come anche la Lusitania.
Nel nostro antico mare, nell' acqua occidentale, nel mediterraneo..
Gaetano

  č sempre un popolo straordinario...

La Lusitania , negli ultimi 2 miliardi di anni non č mai stata bagnata dal
nostro antico mare...
Ciao


Questo dimostra quanto sei piccolo.
Invece di imperversare per il ng vaneggiando e sparando ciance
intellettualistiche e finto-intellettualistiche, faresti bene ad aprire il
cuore e ad ascoltare quello che il tuo egoismo ed il tuo egocentrismo ti
hanno insegnato a non ascoltare.
Ciao!
Giacomo


che è la Lusitania, un paese in provincia di Rho?


no beh... non era esattamente questo che volevo dire :-)
io poi considero gli antichi romani un popolo di pecorai che ridusse
tutto il sapere greco a pochi codicilli di enfiteusi e diritti reali che
serviva loro a non litigare più di tanto nei periodi di transumanza
tra l'uno e l'altro dei sette colli (alla faccia loro)...
siamo un po' lontanucci... su queste cose... mi pare :-)
egicer

 nostro antico mare...
Dai, non la conosci ?
é una canzone di Battiato.
Segunda-feira si chiama.
Ti porto con me
segunda feira de Lisboa
nel mio antico mare nell' acqua occidentale
nel Mediterraneo
affollato di navi
e corpi d' ignudi nuotatori.
Fanciulli con sguardo da fiere
gli occhi di lince dei Braganza
fissano il nord.
Sognando l'oltremare
come ghirlanda intrecciano una danza.
Trago dentro do meu coracao
Todos lugares onde estive :
Aentrada de Singapura
O coral das Maldivas
Macao de noite, a uma hora.
Segunda- feira de Lisboa
che nome d' incanto !
Qui da noi è lunedì .
Soltanto.
Bella, no ?
ciao

 hanno insegnato a non ascoltare.
Per aprire il cuore è necessario che lo stomaco sia tranquillo : le tue sono
ciarle , ciarle da quattro soldi.
Comunque apri pure il tuo cuore : nel linguaggio di quelli svegli non
significa altro che mettersi a 90 gradi.
Buon divertimento.
Me l'aspettavo , la solita stronzata dell'aprire il cuore : tipico di chi
non ha argomenti razionali.
Solo retorica , retorica d'accatto.
Quello che conta sono i fatti : le tue chiacchiere non hanno migliorato  la
vita di nessun iracheno.
Le bombe in testa a Saddam porteranno un governo migliore di quello
precedente
Forza , vieni fuori con la stronzata che quelle bombe hanno ucciso degli
innocenti : prima di farlo procurati una calcolatrice e informati su quanto
morti ha fatto , in IRAQ , tra la popolazione civile , il governo di Saddam.
A proposito : ti hanno già detto quale sarà la prossima battaglia da fare?
Ciao

 Bella, no ?
Carina.
Ciao


Ciao!
Giacomo

AURIGA ha scritto:

..aggiungo che non è possibile nel 2000 due nazioni tra le più ricche 
dell'intero mondo vivano ancora quasi come i nostri clochard per 
l'egoismo dei loro governanti..........,ma qui siamo ot

 a provare un'emozione pura.
I Clash non mi sono mai piaciuti . Decadentismo puro, anzi, cancro del
decadentismo.
Quando voglio respirare la libertà io ascolto i classici. Ossia Mozart e
soprattutto Beethoven.
Ciao

"E mentr'io li cantava cotai note,
o ira o coscienza che 'l mordesse
forte spingava con ambo le piote".

 forte spingava con ambo le piote".
Mi spiace per te , ma sei tu a stare coi papi.
"Forse tu non credevi ch'io loico fossi...."
P.s.
Lascia stare Dante, č zona mia.
Tra le altre cose Dante avrebbe bombardato molto piů di Bush.


Non credo, l'avrebbero esiliato prima :-))))
Buona serata.
Giacomo


Avrebbe fatto l'Oriano Fallaci della situazione.
Ciao

 ....................................
OT.........A me si !
 I Clash , le o visti Live a Bruxelles nel 78....un ricordo indimenticabile
la prova ci penso ancora....!!
in questo momento ascolterei , La Walkyrie di Richard Wagner
e i Spagnoli  anche penso...........
scuza l OT continuate puro...
ilario

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Rco5c.50460$z23.2...@news3.tin.it...
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-----------------------------------------------------------
LUSITANIA
È terra
Compagni, è terra
Terra secca da guardare
Buona
Per camminarci sui ginocchi
E per pregare
E vedo gente e c'è lavoro
E non sono giardini, è terra
Occhi che hanno visto terra
E terra d'oro
E sono nasi, bocche, piedi trascinati
Fra tovaglie di pizzo
Capelli sempre spettinati
Sono salite, ponti e discese
E barche e ponti ancora
È terra dimenticata
Da pagine intere
Che ancora adesso non ci guarda
Non ci parla
E non ci fa sapere
Bella Signora Nostra che ci appari e scompari
Vedi come poco sappiamo di te.
Loro hanno facce di muta cera
Così come è normale immaginare
Chi vede sempre da sempre ultimo
La sera
E se ha già visto non è neanche stanco
Di guardare
E vedo gente e c'è lavoro
E c'è sempre vento in strada ad aspettare
Noi che siamo qui a vedere e a camminare
E nel nostro viaggiare
E volere ricordare e toccare e camminare
In questa smania
Dimentichiamo posizioni, rotte e nomi
E siamo piccoli, stupiti viaggiatori soli
E tutto questo vento intorno invece...
È Lusitania
E siamo piccoli, mediocri viaggiatori soli
E tutto questo vento intorno invece...
È Lusitania
Bella Signora Nostra che ci appari e scompari
Vedi come poco sappiamo di te.
**********************************
e questa la conosci ?
E' un capolavoro ( a detta di tutti )
Quando alludevo all' acqua occidentale, era un modo per far capire
la nostra vicinanza  verso questi popoli.
Geograficamente vicini e fratellamente uniti nella nostra anima latina.
I tragici fatti di questi giorni, mi hanno profondamente turbato.
Il terrorismo ( e la guerra ) vanno condannati da qualsiasi parte vengano.
Ogni giorno vediamo sangue scorrere in ogni angolo del mondo.
Però, questa bomba di Madrid, è come se fosse esplosa vicino a casa mia.
Sarà perchè son veneto, ma quando sento parlare in spagnolo o portoghese
provo delle forti sensazioni d' amore verso questa gente.
Battisti ha composto quel  meraviglioso disco dando libero sfogo all' amore
e all' armonia di ritmi e sonorità latine, non ancora sopite in noi.
Mote volte mi chiedo se possa esistere un nesso tra quel capolavoro e
" La sposa occidentale ".
Chiaramente, non per i ritmi, ma un riferimente puramente culturale
ai nosti usi e costumi.
ciao Gaetano


 a me invece piace questa( Ot x Ot):
 Bella signora che mi lusinghi
 Citando a memoria le mie canzoni
 Il tuo divano è troppo stretto
 Perché io mi faccia delle illusioni
 Abbiamo tutti un cuore arido
 Ed un orecchio al traffico
 Restiamo volentieri ad aspettare
 Che la nostra casa stessa riprenda il mare
 Non ci possiamo sbagliare
 Non ci possiamo sbagliare
 Sono gerani e non parole d'amore.
 Giuseppe


 tra l'uno e l'altro dei sette colli (alla faccia loro)...
Tipico dei Latini e della loro mentalità pratica e utilitaristica.

 non risolve nulla. Lo dimostrano i 560 caduti americani.
Oh bravo Giacomo hai toccato il tasto dolente.
Io non voglio ragionare in termini politici ma giuridici:
sono state apportate palesi violazioni al diritto internazionale.
Se gli spagnoli si ritirano non sarà per le bombe di Madrid
ma, come già annunciato da prima, per l'illegittimità e la
contrarietà dell'Onu. Si può discutere quanto si vuole che
le Nazioni Unite vadano riformate e che ora non funzionino
un granchè ma queste, volenti o nolenti, erano le regole che
sono state violate/aggirate con menzogne e pretesti. Ci siamo
posti anche noi nell'illegalità ma del resto non mi meraviglio:
la degiuridicizzazione e/o peggio l'antigiuridicità sembrano la prassi
in paesi abituati ai condoni e amenità varie... Dittatore più, dittatore
meno, perfino l'atomica è stata rispolverata con nonchalance...

 Lascia stare Dante, č zona mia.
Mi scusi... visto che la politica č di sua competenza ma anche la filosofia,
la pittura, la letteratura, la religione ecc. ecc. potrebbe per caso dirci
se la frammentazione del segmento n.36 nell'elica del DNA potrŕ prevenire
malformazioni congenite ? Inoltre, dato che c'č (mi perdoni se la sfrutto),
come si accoppia un'oloturia ? Eviti perň di rispondere con facili battutine
dal doppio senso tipo 1-al tuo problema non c'č rimedio 2-saran caxxi suoi
Non č questione di cellule.


Fantapolitica, roba da _Gazzetta dello sport.

 Fantapolitica, roba da _Gazzetta dello sport.
Prima studia diritto internazionale,
poi passa l'esame... ti consiglio il Conforti.
'ste cose le insegnano i baroni di PD...
che tutto sono meno che a sinistra.

 malformazioni congenite ?
Non c'entra un cazzo con quanto sopra.

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:jyI5c.75038$FJ6.2...@twister1.libero.it...

Ma va a ciapà di rat tu e il diritto internazionale.
L'unico diritto internazionale è lalegge del più forte.
Il resto sono barzellette per polli.

 Fantapolitica, roba da _Gazzetta dello sport.
Altra tua incongruenza: io parlavo di diritto e non di politica.

 Altra tua incongruenza: io parlavo di diritto e non di politica.
Altra minchiata di chi non sa più a cosa attaccarsi.
Ora spiega un po' come si possa parlare non solo di diritto internazionale ,
parole tue, ma financo di diritto tout court senza invadere la sfera
politica : hai tempo un paio di secoli.
Vai  a nasconderti , clè mei, va là.
E quale professore può averti fatto superare un esame di diritto se non
capisci nemmeno le cose elementari?
Eccone un'altro della Mal-pensa.
Olè.

 
Simone, tu diritto alla mano puoi anche avere ragione ma qui siamo di 
fronte alla legge del taglione oramai,con il crollo dell'urss gli 
americani si sono sobbarcati un impegno non indifferente ad essere da 
SOLI i guardiani del mondo ,l'onu non conta nulla,non ha esercito 
proprio ecc ecc....,oggi c'è solo la Nato che bilancia in una qualche 
maniera la potenza americana......l'europa militarmente è troppo 
vigliacca.....),con la tecnologia attuale qualsiasi individuo si può 
fabbricare una piccola atomica sporca in casa in barba al diritto 
internazionale,,,,,,,,,,uno squinternato con un piccolo deltaplano e una 
fialetta grande come una sigaretta per esempio ti può gasare un paese di 
10000 abitanti,la situazione non è delle più rosee credimi,bisogna 
stroncare alla fonte questi pazzoidi ...................,oramai siamo in 
guerra e non è l'occidente che l'ha dichiarata con l'attacco alle Twin 
Towers
ps
non volermene simo,sai che ti stimo e ti voglio bene,ma lascia perdere 
per un attimo i libri e le vaccate della propaganda....
ho messo i puntini di sospensione solo perchè il discorso diventa lungo
ciao un abbraccio

 Towers
Aggiungiamoci pure il fatto che c'è uno stato in crescita vertiginosa che va
al più presto messo al tappeto prima che possa diventare una seria minaccia.
La Cina.
Ma tant'è , in questa povera Italia , ci sono  tanti coglioni che sperano
invece di vedere la giustizia mondiale : il che significherebbe , l'Oriente
essendosi ormai occidentalizzato nel profondo, uan nuova ondata di
migrazioni : dall'Italia alla Cina...
Povera Italia.
 Ciao

 10000 abitanti,
che č, il paese di auriga?

 
..diciamo che gli italiani hanno seguito poco la politica negli ultimi 
50anni e solo ora con l'ingresso in politica del berlusca se ne 
interessano di più,ma è ancora troppo poco,dovrebbero anche lasciarsi 
alle spalle una quasi ideologia  di stato che per 50 anni li ha 
"addormentati" ,e che tanto danno ha arrecato a questo paese sia morale 
che materiale allevando intere generazioni alla stupidità per decreti 
legge.Basta leggersi Popper sul comunismo e i suoi danni collaterali e 
un individuo ha un solo padrone nella vita :SE STESSO alla faccia del 
finto buonismo ipocrita
chiedo venia per il mostruoso ot

 uan nuova ondata di migrazioni : dall'Italia alla Cina... Povera Italia.
A te... manco se migri su Sedna ti prendono :)

 politica : hai tempo un paio di secoli.
Forse non sai che esiste una Facoltà
di Giurisprudenza e una di Scienze Politiche.
Siamo diametralmente all'opposto: per me
deve prevalere il diritto, tu parli invece di
"legge (sopruso) del più forte". Ognuno ha
il suo richiamo della foresta...

 ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Hd_5c.76584$FJ6.2...@twister1.libero.it...
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Guarda , oggi son troppo stanco per replicare. Stento a credere a quello che
leggo : facoltà?
Mi rifiuto di credere che tu stia discutendo seriamente.
Che c'entra che la facoltà di giurisprudenza sia diametralmente opposta a
quella di scienze politiche? Sociologia e storia sono cane e gatto ma non
c'è mai stato uno storico , sano di mente , che si sia rifiutato di studiare
le società.Anzi.
Le università non decidono una mazza , sono solo luoghi di riflessione. E la
riflessione che si attua in qualsiasi facoltà è sempre tremendamente
inattuale rispetto alla realtà , e questo vale per tutte le facoltà : dalla
facoltà di medicina a quella di scienze politiche.
.In quanto alla legge del più forte non è con me che devi prendertela. Devi
rivolgerti a Dio, io con la creazione e il governo dell'universo, ahimè ,non
c'entro nulla .
Continua a sfuggirmi, nonostante ci siano facoltà diverse, come sia
possibile legiferare senza polis, senza un ordine politico.
A dire il vero non è che mi sfugga : mi fa ridere.
L'ordine politico non ha bisogno del diritto per sussistere, il contrario è
impossibile. Persino in un condominio.
Mi limito a fare delle constatazioni e considerazioni elementari : non
esiste nè mai esisterà una società con leggi antitetiche alla volontà del
più forte -. Se tu la pensi diversamente dovresti essere così gentile da
portare esempi concreti , o al limite  citare il nome dell'umorista  che
abbia teorizzato la possibilità che a determinare le leggi non sia il più
forte.
Ciao

 as their meanings in the 12 horizon based astrological houses 
 Since both Sedna and 2004 DW contain a watery flavor, they are
 coupled in this analysis. Morever the Sedna communication comes
 in synch with 2004 DW discovery, even if it's own discovery is
 marked Nov 11th 2003. The Minor Planet Center still classifies
 Sedna as centaur object and we will probably see new classes of 
 objects popping out soon as we already did lately.
 The zodiac loses 4 constellations, assuming Pluto is _not_ a planet.
 In that case Eridanus (NEAT comet 
http://puck.dhs.org/comet
, river 
 Po in Italy), Bootes (pastoral religions), Coma Berenices (Tiepolo's 
 Veronica's Hair at San Alvise) and Leo Minor (EVANGELVS SECUNDVS) 
 become EXTRA-zodiacal constellations, while they were of course 
 zodiacal in times when Pluto was officially a planet. Sitchinian 
 proposals taken into consideration, we have GAGA as Saturn's ex 
 satellite. Our zodiac reduces thus to 24 constellations, 25 in
 extension, conveniently splitting Serpens in two. 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra/cetus
 Is your natal Moon in Cetus, too?
 Why Cetus? Because it is a _zodiacal_ constellation. Misconceptions
 have the zodiac a 12 constellation ring, when it is a 13 (Ophiucus!)
 constellation ring as concerns the Sun. The Sun journeys through
 13 constellations. But the Moon, Pluto and the planets journey
 through 28 constellations! This is largely out of reach for the
 practical (?) 12zodiacal (often "tropical") astrologer. This
 astrologer is _not_ concerned with the way things are (or were),
 he deals with unexisting positions, impossible conjunctions,
 immersed in a virtual simplified equinoctial model of the
 constellations, good enough for some old egyptian primary 
 school perhaps, but not good at all for serious research. 
 No wonder astronomers keep laughing at tropical astrologers:
 they deserve it in many ways. So do the siderealists and the 
 vedic. All of them refuse to take a simple glance at the sky.
 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 
http://puck.dhs.org/sedna
 in 12 houses
 Sedna is the protector of tritons, undines and evocational
 magick dealing with the watery element, especially while it
 still dives through Cetus. Watermonsters, krakens, lamias
 and sirens speak through dolphins and whales to the uninitiated.
 
    As concerns travel, it
    is obvious Sedna will bring the acolyte across to Avalon, 
    as not just long journeys, but actually journeys out of this
    world pertain to Sedna. Sedna's orbit alone dictates long
    distance communication as Sedna features in horoscopes of
    meditators, shamans and people who reside for a long time from
    home. Sedna will determine space mission captains in the
    future. Sedna liberates the meditator!                   Sedna
    is not perturbed (much) by the planets, and is almost untouched
    by sunrays, the better for the meditator to escape the ego-fires
    of the heart-Sun. The Sun is malefic in vedic tought, as the 
    Moon is truemind. The centripetal pull of the Sun and it's ego
    wishes symbolize (if not incorporate!) ego will (me, me!), but
    Sedna is (almost = savikalpa samadhi) liberated from the major
    gravitational basin, it is part of our system but fairly 
    with an "independent" (?) orbit. It is thus symbolized by the
    meditator in savikalpa samadhi.                 :::||| heart
 = Sedna = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /sedna in the 12 astrological houses 
 Sedna in Cetus in the 12 Astrological Horizon based Houses 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/sedna
 1. Insight. Balance. The Temple promotes longevity. Ancestral
    spirits help averting heart disease.
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
 2. Astrologers will look for Sedna in the second house even in
    popular solar return charts! This is the best year one can
    have, finantially speaking. There's a hint at real eastate, 
    too. Talisman: the dollar, the Eye in the Triangle, Shiva.
 
    Windfall. The guru afloat on the sea. Sincerity. Good winds.
    Chopping wood for the winter. Cached wood carried to the stove.
    Storage. Resourceful? The maiden chops wood.
    Is Sedna Admetos? It could well be! It is not Phoebus of the
    Rathke Planets, but it perhaps qualifies as Admetos of the
    hamburgers. The last word is on Hamburg, of course.
  Get rich with horary $edna in the second house and savour the deep 
  sea taste of Sednastrology while Sedna is still in Cetus
constellation!
 
 = New Planet Sedna in Finantial Astrology = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 Sedna has already a fair finantial record. Why does it influence
 the finantial $econd house of the horo$cope with such impetu$? 
    Hypoteticals such as the Avestans, Rathke Planets (see 
    under "darkplanets" on the site), and the Hamburg planets
    precede the recent discoveries. Admetos is favorable to
    stock exchange, much as 2002 AW197 is favorable to real estate.
  Is Sedna Admetos? It could well be! It is not Phoebus of the
  Rathke Planets, but it perhaps qualifies as Admetos of the
  hamburgers. The last word is on Hamburg, of course.
 /Adm/ Admetos is a hypotetical and as such lacks perspective.
       Sedna is a real object in Cetus, while hypotheticals
       seldom propose a declination and constellation.
       This leaves Admetos = Sedna as an interesting (or mere?)
       speculation. The second house effect is, nevertheless, 
       remarkable. Perhaps the two (?) work together?
 3. Inorganic being, but not as yet or necessary already or ever
    a helper. Non-human, but perhaps rather evil. Black packt. Easter.
    Do not travel to California, o.k. for New York (horary brief).
 4. Painful events in the family.
    The cusp of the 4th house is Nadir (not I.C.). This position is
    most important as it strikes Sedna's own family affairs. Her
    family then expands to all astral fauna. The shepardess of the
    astral dolphins is surely wounded hearted after the slaughter done
    to whales and dolphins. AVE MARIA STELLA MARIS. Sedna can be
    coupled with Santa Lucia in her inorganic aspect. This will be 
    done in Venice as summer gift to students ,readers and O5 classes.
 5. Good issue to steeling a wife. Stolen wife was not hidden (well)?
    Magus and Astrologer. Sexual pest. Burglary after enrichment?
    The unexpected Aiwass-like ward. FIAT LVX.
 
    The innocent magus is not supposed to hide an undine. He should
    marry her. Human heart knows vary few faiths and faithfulness
    can become a problem. The undine won't tollerate breaching and
    will demand the death of the magus, who will degrade into an
    astral underwater servant in Sedna worlds unimaginable to the
    neophyte. Sedna is thus the punishing deity in service of the
    undine bride. various stories of sirens are in fact all true.
    It seems yet another type of masonry enjoys plumpy water sprites
    (more plumpy than sprites) here. Our obscure masonic hero Giacomo
    Casanova midpoints Sedna within his winning Mars Jupiter in 5th
    with womboid Cruithne brushing by. Sedna is long large and eternal
    erection and a peculiar disinterest in all the things one
posessed.
    I love all, desire all, and after having it I don't crave for it
    any longer. I have left that girl by the river, while it's still
    in your mind. Castazeniac vibes, indeed. Casanova reminds us that
    Sedna is not Admetos is not Nemesis. 
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /reports /reports1 Casanova features Venus
    Devil Rose, HPMHC descending, Pholus Pluto, Sun Amor (darkplanet),
    bedsides Cruithne Sedna Mars Jupiter cluster. Admetos and Nemesis
    (darkplanet) seem involved with the magician's Moon.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/venexia/casanova
 for birthplace and myth. 
 6. As concerns healing, this Sedna pO5ition is strong,
    especially when water majik is applied.
    One impregnates water (or one's own soup)
    with the positive issue. That is the eucharistic
    initiation.
    Water rebithing is implied.
    The presence of God is latent, but when manifested (darshan) it
    expands sending the semigods vimanas into outer space. Expansion
    to the limits is one of Sedna's attributions. We are discovering
    what is latent, the presence of God and His creation. If Pluto
    was Brahma, then Sedna is Nrsimhadeva, besides all watery 
    attributions the current naming evokes. Even within basic 
    vedic lore we are aware there are astral planets unseen
    by telescopes. We must also suppose Sedna was known to 
    the authors of the vedas. This may seem far fetched as we
    propose a vedic delineation, curiousely enmeshed with
    overlaping Yaqui shamanistic lore. The Inuit will pardon our 
    discrepances in that we are not delineating the name of the
    palnet itself (did I say planet?), but it's meaning and karma.
 
    The 6th house is a trick in itself. Placing itself below the
    western horizon is being invisible, low, perhaps less influential
    and modest. This will trick the demon, since God cannot possibly 
    depend on positions. The 6th house is thus a snare for the devil!
    God assumes a low position, feigning weakness, the better for the
    demon to attack! This is heavenly "lila", the play of God.
    God will so-to-say sacrifice a figure, showing himSelf "weak",
    provoking the demon to attack. This explains O5 "puffing up";
    one deliberately makes the opponent strong for a while, the
    better to defeat it/him completely!
    Exagerating the strenght of the opponent, one entices him/it 
    to attack. God so-to-say bows down (under the horizon), placing
    himSelf in a low, modest position; enticing whatever demon to
    attack (Hiranyakasipu, Herod, Juda, Mara, Maya, 333).        
    Evoking God's help has spectacular effect in this pO5ition!
    God not only comes but also makes a show with so much lightning!
    The innocent and reverent receive help from Godhead himSelf.
    God is not only at the service of the hermit, it forms an 
    aliance here. This is the pO5ition of the Covenant. Ally
    with God from within and he comes in visible form (avatara).
    One is a traveling curer as pestilence reigns, he has no 
    shield but God. And God helps. Paracelsus cured, Nostradamus
    cured, Christ cured. To cure is to go out among the cure and
    aplly creed to the wound. Sea and water majik, the sound of the
    dolphins. Broadcasting dolphin waves calms the county.
 
    The inorganic will help, but alliance must be formed with GodHead
    on exclusive basis, not the subordinated, not even the angels.
    Winter will be hard in that some water will turn to ice.
    Watermajik then extends to icemajik. God could appear in the
    form of the SeaLion. 
    Impregnating water is simple and basic majik. See also Franz
Bardon.
    Let water be contained in earthenware and the mind sincere and
    devoid of egotistic or any thoughts. perhaps one fills the cup
    with water and goes out to meet the deity and offer.
    If rituals are improvised with this position, let the shaman
    fast and abstain from sex for a while, being one with the
    Creator. Rituals should be simple and spontaneous. Visible
    signs of the presence of Deity include thunder in the desert.     
 
    The darshan can be bloody as in the example of Prahlada Maharaj
    where the deity butchers the opponent after playing with it!
 
    The help comes sort of unexpectedly, although the faithful 
    is one with "his" deity mO5t of the time. Sincerity, rather
    than elaborate rituals (elaborate rituals often serve 
    materialistic goals: observe our european churches, for istance:)
 
    God "descends" slaying the carrier of the inorganic pest.
    God kills the devil, or at least it's mortal frame.
    The devil is by far more equipied to kill man, but God is
    by far more equipied to kill the devil. This is not so
    christian-linear, as the inorganic pest partakes in creation.
    For those who aim at liberation from the devil, there's some
    informative material under "los voladeros" or "voladeros"
    on 
http://groups.google.com
 or 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
    Exorcism can begin with such simple techniques as O5, which
    we incorporate under news://
aurora.lightlink.com/alt.clearing.O5
    The castanedian lore is vital crucial and central to all modern
    exorcism. Tradition properly initiated along with new currents
    informs the exorcist. Of course the majority will "think" (it
    is the devil that does the thinking) the devil does not exist.   
 
    Sedna is aloof, here putting itself below the western horizon.
    The western horizon is the alterego, so-to-speak, of the eastern
    horizon, or the ascendant. We have seen Sedna is in Cetus and
    when Cetus is ascending with Sedna (at this time in Europe
    around 08:25 CET), Virgo or Libra are descending (with rather
    dangerous Serpens Caput lurking by). The descendant is sometimes
    the enemy, precisely the known visible representation of the
    enemy of man (voladero, devil, vampire inorganic being): the
    incorporation of the personal devil, and so on. Sedna below
    the western horizon is playing with the bhakti's enemy, like
    in the case of Prahlada Maharaj (who owns an astral planet of
    his own, I'm informed). Sedna is aloof like God but it descends
    and plays with man's enemy (the personal devil dwells inside
    Prahlada Maharaj's father in our example), killing him in the
    end. The vedic example is astounding when enmeshed with 
    castanedian lore. Truemind kills false ego. The default mind 
    is one we use on daily basis which is not ours at all and was
    installed by the devil at an early age. This is alienation and 
    death. We don't need this. All the lies of the false authorities
    come from the use of the wrong mind. Don't use it. Don't feed
    negativemotions, never. Survival and paradise is pO5sible for
    truemind, but hardly in ways the false mind suggests: rather
    tricky and deadly dangerous, indeed.
    Sedna falling in the 6th house means God has come to serve.
Truemind
    will kill false ego after playing with it. This sounds
optimistical
    indeed and it is to give you a boost. Don't wait for Sedna in 6th
    to fight your true enemy: your "own" (not yours at all) mind!
    The 6th house is one of the most intriguing, dealing with
    ritual majik. Sedna in 6th requires denial of packts to 
    "pO5itive", as well as negative inorganic beings. We should
    not mingle with bad people and bad inorganics (spirits, more
    or less physical parallel universe beings).    
    Yato yato yami tato nrsimhah. Saint Marc's inorganic guide is
    Nrsimhah deva of the vedic lore, the protector of astral travel
    ers such as Prahlada Maharaj). Inner fires burning ego remanants. 
    Reguls as MIKAL. /a/ A fishing cat. Guru search out of the Temple.
    Out of the sea life crawls into the forest. Ancestral spirits lead
    to the wood-of-no-guru. Ancestral spirits spread the MariX before
    the initiate. The warp-and-woof of other life. Childbirth in the
    Temple. Capitalism. Sea ecology. Marine expeditions.
    Menkar can add up to fire hazard. Protect your stables. Take
    special care of your cats. Altars built to deal with fires.
    Vesta is especially interesting when dealing with 6th house 
    fire service and hazard. This position can "blow fire". The
    fiery element can be greatly stressed with Regulus acting
    on the planets in connection with Sedna here. 
    Note that we take the 6th house as being below the western
    horizon. That is never done in tropical/popular astrology. 
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
    The same deity can appear to various saints. A lionlike angel
    suggested PAX TIBI MARCE EVANGELISTA MEVS to the double evangelist
    Saint Marc in the bogs ("biri" in venethian) where the large
    church of San Francesco de la Vigna stands today. Lionlike
    incarnations and visions clearly pertain to Regulus and Leo.
    All tropical calculus here is obsolete as we are working with
    the real skies, not some simplified equinoctial model.   
    The pO5ition represents the beheaded. Perhaps there are
    allusions to masonry and the Baptist (SanZandegola in
    venethian). God not only comes, He returns! Ally with Him.
 
    If one does not ally with God, with whom does he ally? 
    One is encouraged to ally with God from the outside as
    well as from the inside. This is an intimation towards
    invocation of Godhead, as well as the evocation of the 
    archangels. MIKAL and various lion-headed inorganics 
    seem to be favored in this pO5ition.
    Tranquility is hard to find when pestilence reigns. As
    always in the 6th house, there's extra work (seva, service) 
    to offer. Karma yoga = ORA ET LABORA. 
 7. Sincere relationship and entwined souls. Super marriage!
    Mountain sisters? Twin souls? 
 Sedna's dolphins entwined are quite the opposite to the triurne 
 Lamia of 2004 DW. Aloof Sedna has much love, but 2004 DW is a
 dangerous siren. Luckily for the thick skinned magus, 2004 DW
 will bite only to die from the poisonous magician's blood.
 
    The innocent magus is not supposed to hide an undine. He should
    marry her. Human heart knows vary few faiths and faithfulness
    can become a problem. The undine won't tollerate breaching and
    will demand the death of the magus, who will degrade into an
    astral underwater servant in Sedna worlds unimaginable to the
    neophyte. Sedna is thus the punishing deity in service of the
    undine bride. various stories of sirens are in fact all true.
 
    One should be careful checking for latitude and horizon.
    When all is measured and checked out properly, there is
    no mistake and Sedna is _really_ in the 7th house! /b/
 
 <snip>
 service of the moral magus. The most beautiful undines are actually
 a threat for the magus as many married one to regret it when they
 were unable to remain faithful. Undines punish unfaithfulness with
 death, justified by the very marriage contract. Sedna is an undine
 for all practical purposes. In the seventh house it plays like a 
 dolphin with the magician's heart fountaining with love. 
 </snip> <!-- See majikal initiation below -->
    When is a planet in the 7th house? When above the horizon.
    Checking Sedna in teh 7th house is especially tricky. Try
    and get some hints learning from othe people's errors here:
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 /extra /nu /dane.rudhyar /alan.leo
    The article is "7th House Switch" 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
    Sedna is otherwise in the 6th house. Your astological
    program does not know it. This is an old standard error 
    of popular astrology for the masses. Many authors have
    their planets e.g. in the 12th when they're clearly in
    1st, having the appropriate latitude and position under
    the eastern horizon. The ascendant is Due East, of course.
 8. Time pyramind. Errection. Sinking. Sea bottom. The flood. 
    The overflooding well. 
 9. Excellent for art and travel! Roundabout. Spring equinox.
    Compare with Pegasus constellation. As concerns travel, it
    is obvious Sedna will bring the acolyte across to Avalon, 
    as not just long journeys, but actually journeys out of this
    world pertain to Sedna. Sedna's orbit alone dictates long
    distance communication as Sedna features in horoscopes of
    meditators, shamans and people who reside a long time from
    home. Sedna will determine space mission captains in the
    future. 
    Travel expands to second attention or waking up in one's dreams.
    Still better, Sedna at in 9th liberates the meditator! Sedna
    is not perturbed (much) by the planets, and is almost untouched
    by sunrays, the better for the meditator to escape the ego-fires
    of the heart-Sun. The Sun is malefic in vedic tought, as the 
    Moon is truemind. The centripetal pull of the Sun and it's ego
    wishes symbolize (if not incorporate!) ego will (me, me!), but
    Sedna is (almost = savikalpa samadhi) liberated from the major
    gravitational basin, it is part of our system but fairly 
    with an "independent" (?) orbit. It is thus symbolized by the
    meditator in savikalpa samadhi. 
    Since Sedna is fairly removed from most interplanetary disputes,
    it must be consulted as a fair judge over the petty gravitational
    matters closer to us. Astrologers either consult the centaurs,
    which are perturbed by various planets, or the aloof world of
    the transneptunians. But how can 2004 DW judge? Is Quaoar fair?
    Nessus is too disturbed to do any judgement, and Asbolus, albeit
    magus, has not as yet seen it all. The centaurs lack perspective
    as they're thrown here and there by influences and planetary
    gravitation. The centaurs are our close dark archangels, but
    they are unable to encompass and judge creation. Only Sedna
    is capable of impartial empathy towards the centaurs and 
    transneptunian cubewano, plutino (and SDO) objects.
    Sedna in 11th 10th and 9th house and especially at the meridian 
    is a fair judge judging nothing, an aloof observer, the witness.
    Om sakshi aham. I am the Witness separate of all.
10. Grail. ( Crater ? ). Flying? One year of good business?
    Friends forever? Spirit helpers. Aiming at immortality after
    meeting a spiritual ancestor and guide. Persist in poverty.
    Space mission captain.
 
    Menkar is not traditionally goood at all at the meridian and 
    Sedna has been coupled with Alpha Ceti for a while. Speaking
    of coupling, Venus rises with Sedna at his time.
11. Wartime. Ra-Hoor-Khuit? The evil fixation of second attention.
    Visiting the feudal lord. Bribing the nagual?
12. Bad issue? Hidden victory? Quickly out of the Temple? The Temple
    of the Fast Redemption. O5. Chief druid. The Pope in Sicily. 
    The kayak. Niagara Falls. Transilvania Waterfalls.
    The 1st, 6th and 12th houses are most certainly connected to
    marine ecology, the sea and a sort of initiation. See also
    Varuna delineation. The first house is like the song of the
    old sea, the 6th enmeshes sea's secrets and is dangerous.
    Fire at the sea bottom? The 12th house is like the release
    from the sea, shooting up and forth, killing the raven of time.
 
    Sedna strangely wards off large animals, albeit near by Menkar
    attracts them. No large or wild animal will harm, but hazard
    seems imminent and rather obvious. Risky circuswork pays off.
    Animals are often demons. adam gave the names to all of the
demons.
 
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
    We don't suppose the house Franz Bardon has his own Sedna in,
    as we introduce it here for the sake of record. Sedna is
overaspected
    in the magus incarnation horoscope but it is most remarkably the
    Saturn Mars midpoint as it seems responsable for the magician's
    captivity. Namely the nazi and a black lodge succeeded in
torturing
    the magus. This is a complex subject and horoscope I must leave
    to more expert times. 
http://puck.dhs.org/sedna
 frabato
    Frabato's supposed troubles with the undines and watery element
    had a happy ending after dire danger. The depths are there to
teach.
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/sedna
 O5 Initiations, Astrological Services, I Ching Consultation
 SMS +385 91 108 108 4 
ana...@spunge.org
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 One should not be misled by non-astrologers who "think" Sedna is in
 Taurus. It will slip in Taurus from Cetus in a couple of years (up
 coming article, coupling Venus' approach to Hydra and 2004 DW).
Sedna   531.657634 0.857434  11.9304 144.4929 311.8271 53200.5
357.8815  1.7
2003VB12   531.657634 0.857434  11.9304 144.4929 311.8271 53200.5
357.8815  1.7
 Sedna is of course delineated in Cetus. It happens that 2004 DW 
 is in Hydra, Quaoar in Ophiucus and so on. All this constellations
 are not only ascendantal, they're also zodiacal.
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 Sedna is _not_ in Taurus yet. In a couple of years, 2004 DW becomes
 actual, with Venus approaching Hydra (Venus is heading towards Orion
 this summer; see "Venus in Orion" article 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
)
 while Sedna changes constelation. Sedna's constellation change seems
 remarkable, since it does not happen too often. Pluto most often than
 not skips Pisces and Aries, heading through Cetus towards Taurus; 
 Sedna dives in much the same fashion, generally speaking. This will
 puzzle the tropical astrologer, but then the days of tropicana were
 counted at least ten years ago. "Jungian" 5-asteroid astrologers are
 lO5t in some newagish hell. We stand at a new frontier called Oort's
 cloud and those who are purpO5ely unaware of 1992 QB1 are hopelessly
 10 years late. Meaning Interenet will swarm with "delineations" made
 by people who have decent ideas about Chiron and deal with Vesta and
 a couple of main-belt asteroids (major asteroid Eunomia excluded).
 People not familiar with centaurs, SDO, cubewano and plutino objects
 will puzzle at Sedna. Ready ideas won't help much. They should 
 delineate 2004 DW, since it "has no name". Yahooing for deep 
 mythological cut'n'paste delineations won't make an astrologer.
 Sedna can be delineated by people who delineated 1992 QB1. They will
 know it's nature and will apply a long tested _method_, testing the
 orbit, perihelion, applying mythology with taste where required. This
 kind of folk has no problem delineating an "unnamed" object. 
 Varuna, Ixion and Quaoar were all un-named when delineated. 
 
 Sedna is not named yet. It is still 2003 VB12. 
 
 Abouts:
 
 28 Constellation Zodiac 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Our Newsgroup: news://
aurora.lightlink.com/alt.clearing.O5
 
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Extrazodiacal Astrology 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 
( Cetus bis )
 
 Why Cetus? Because it is a _zodiacal_ constellation. Misconceptions
 have the zodiac a 12 constellation ring, when it is a 13 (Ophiucus!)
 constellation ring as concerns the Sun. The Sun journeys through
 13 constellations. But the Moon, Pluto and the planets journey
 through 28 constellations! This is largely out of reach for the
 practical (?) 12zodiacal (often "tropical") astrologer. This
 astrologer is _not_ concerned with the way things are (or were),
 he deals with inexisting positions, impossible conjunctions,
 immersed in a virtual simplified equinoctial model of the
 constellations, good enough for some old egyptian primary 
 school perhaps, but not good at all for serious research. 
 No wonder astronomers keep laughing at tropical astrologers:
 they deserve it in many ways. So do the siderealists and the 
 vedic. All of them refuse to take a simple glance at the sky.
 
 More Abouts:
 
 Enuma Elish, Tiamat, Nibiru 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 Valentine Centaur 
http://puck.dhs.org/centaurs
 /2004CJ39
 Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar
 /quaoar.html
 Transneptunians 
http://puck.dhs.org/2003
 /tno
 All Objects on 
http://groups.google.com
 Archives 
http://www.escribe.com/theory/puck
 Ixion & the Centaurs intro 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 
 = Sedna = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 
 
 Sedna is our first Oort cloud object. It is a cold distant world.
 Where is Sedna? It is coupled with Venus and Menkar at this time. 
 This objects can be observed e.g. in the evening in Europe. The
 "planet" or Oort cloud object is in Cetus constellaton. 
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/sedna
 = Sedna delineation = 
 
 This particullary happy delineation is completely free of any
 apocalyptic omen that was glooming our astrology in the case 
 of 2004 DW and Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 /c/
 
 Since the article was written before any NASA communication,
 the only way I can call 2003 VB12 is an Oort Cloud Object
 (OCO). Thus the object is not a "supercentaur" and the
 classes of objects have increased by one. We have the
 first real Oort Cloud Object. 2004 DW is a KBO, a plutino.
 Briefly checking with MPC on Mar 18th I see they still have 
 2003 VB12 under "centaurs". There's much hype and politic$
 in all this Sedna mess. 2003 VB12 has been known to us since
 November 2003, whatever it's designation, object class or
 purpose. There was no need to hide it on purpO5e before some
 "official" presentation. I noticed the NASA JPL HORIZONS Sun
 Sparc slowed down since the D-day for Sedna:)
 
 We are familiar with the object as it's designation changed
 from 2003 VB16 to 2003 VB12. It was discovered last year and 
 variousely scheduled as "centaur". The somewhat obscure
 designation was made still more obscure by quoting 2003 VB16
 on the official discovery page (more or less a "hidden" one).
 While this article is the product of a "hack" before any NASA
 communication, it nevertheless confirms to several points in
 the nature of the object, known or unknown. The delineation
 is not mythology-based at this time.
 
 Sedna is in Cetus in most horoscopes. This means you can have
 Sedna rising along with your Cetus ascendant. Cetus rising in
 the East is a daily matter. The Moon is in Cetus once or twice
 a month and the maps show other objects of interest in this
 zodiacal constelation 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra/cetus
 Astronomers have determined Cetus is a zodiacal constellation
 around 1977. The true astronomical zodiac thus consists of 28
 constellations 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 some of them ascendental
 meaning they can rise in due east at this time and age.
 When the Moon or Venus are in Cetus, they are delineated in that
 constellation. Pluto can be in Cetus but it cannot be in Aries or
 Pisces. The simscans show Pluto and the lanets in Cetus.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 /cetus 
 
 Cetus 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /extra /cetus is a zodiacal constellation
 since the planets, Pluto and the Moon, as well as a variety of minor 
 planets swarm this large and legendary constellation.
 The Moon is in Cetus once or twice a month and will visit this part
 of the sky in the summer months, too, e.g. around Aug 4th 2004.
 
 The seventh house is the region above the western horizon. 
 Horizons can play tricks in Inuit regions, where the Sun
 is said to rise in the West at times. /d/
 We use astronomy to determine the horizon. Sedna above the 
 western horizon warrants a sincere relationship.
 The object is full of dolphin energy. Several spiritual groups
 use to initiate their members into astral dolphin realms, as
 one can meet his dolphin guide. This guides are very faithful. 
 
 The houses full of dolphin energy are the 7th and 2nd houses.
 The 2nd house is below the horizon (which is seldom true in
 so-called popular tropical calculus). 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 A particulary painful situation is marked with Sedna in Nadir
 position (due North). AVE MARIA STELLA MARIS. The bitter sea 
 of discreation treats our ships like nutshells. Qlippoth are
 disposed of as the salt doll becomes One with the Ocean through
 pain and grief. Pierced is the Heart of our Queen. This is Sedna
 in grief. The position is not very good for lovers and marriage
 as one of the two might resort to black voodoo, possibly...
 (Note this is a provisory delineation only!).
 
 The 4th house is one of grief, suggesting repentance. Perhaps
 family affairs smeck of bitter Binah energy as Sedna sinks our 
 hopes as if aided by her shaman raven husband. This is clearly 
 a classical Saturn in Libra vibration.
 The stars are spirits, rather than mere gas. The transneptunian
 KBO (cubewano, plutino) are more than mere icy rocks. Inorganic
 beings initiate the magus, as they are often classified as stars.
 The errors of tropical astrology are many. See Alan Leo under
 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 for an initiation into horizons proper.
 Notes:
 Students study 2004 DW in Crater. 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 /2004DW 
 Fish-nets extend to Internet. Caught in the midst of the Net. 
 Sacrificed. Short lived? Tranquil, blessed, good salary. Immune 
 to any attack. Those are some of the + and - keys to be classified.
 2003 VB12 "Sedna"  ( this is an "early" note, the ephemeris should
                      be fairly reliable by the time one reads this )
 
 If we don't want to be _too_ precise, Crowley's Sedna is
 "tropically" at 2 Aries of longitude. We can "integrate" 
 precisely, for Lord Krsna and Buddha, too; but at this 
 stage we are happy with an "estimation". 
 
 1875-Jun-06 00:00       2.6384036  -7.6638753
 1875-Sep-25 00:00       2.3307673  -7.7446282
 
 Crowley
 The ephemeris were produced online by Jon Giorgini's HORIZONS 
 integrator, NASA JPL, Pasadena, CA.
 
 /a/ 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 /5gram MIKAL as Regulus. 
 /b/ Scores of modern astrologers and myriads of clients enjoy the
     wrong position here. Many have e.g. Neptune in 6th when it should
     be in the 7th house. Check Alan and Dane 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
     for clues. It might well be your case. The same applies for the
     12th and 1st house switch and (work in progress) seemingly even
     for the 5th/8th house switch in some odd cases (?). 
 /c/ Varuna wasn't a happy delineation either. Ixion bore some joy, 
     majik, perhaps even fair sex, achemy and variety. Varuna smecked
     evil gods and Quaoar pushed us into war. Darkplanet Lamia
conjunct
     Pluto prepared the jihad stage. Now the jihad scenary is
strangely
     quiet and no atomic bombs were set in metropolic undergrounds.
This
     puts us off guard, which is always good for someone. 
 /d/ Quoting Curly Mae from Alkavik. Ne pivo:( 
 Looking for an OMEN is like looking for NEMO. NEMO is the Magister
 Templi, the One who has no other, one that has lost his self. Mind
 less and sharkproof, one expands in infinite oceans without shores.
 The object can be directed. Here an example of a transit. Sedna
 squaring natal Uranus in transit and the owner of the position
 gets involved in an airplane (Uranus) war. Let it be noted that
 the airplanes flew one meter above the surface of the sea, thus
 invisible to radars. The conflict ended almost without casualities.
 Abouts:
 
 Enuma Elish, Tiamat, Nibiru 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 Constellation Zodiac 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 Valentine Centaur 
http://puck.dhs.org/centaurs
 /2004CJ39
 Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar
 /quaoar.html
 Transneptunians 
http://puck.dhs.org/2003
 /tno
 All Objects on 
http://groups.google.com
 Archives 
http://www.escribe.com/theory/puck
 Ixion & the Centaurs intro 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 Our Newsgroup: news://
aurora.lightlink.com/alt.clearing.O5
 
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Extrazodiacal Astrology 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 /* Sedna, astrology, delineation, horoscope, 2004 DW, Quaoar,
 
puck.dhs.org
, Oort Cloud, 2003 VB12, new planet?, Oort cloud
 object, Pluto+not+planet, astrological, 12 houses, ephemeris,
 NASA JPL, alt.astrology.moderated */
 
 = 2004 DW Delienation =
 
 Since babies born at this time often have Hydra ascending,
 many of them are already "marked" with a 2004 DW ascendant!
 
 = 2004 DW = 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Updates
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 It seems we have a new object in astrology. While Quaoar
 was delineated in Ophiucus, 2004 is in Hydra, both snaky
 zodiacal constellations. Many of you have Sun in Ophiucus
 but nobody in Hydra. Planets, minor planets, as well as 
 the ascendant are nevertheless often in Hydra, an interesting
 long constellation as concerns size, depth and mythology. 
 
 Hydra ascending with 2004 DW for newborn babies shown for 
 various locations, 5 pm Glasgow, 17:11 Rio, 16:30 Charlotte, NC.
 Various appendixes incorporated in this text, as well
 as the newsgroup and our Archives explain the mysterious
 facets of 28zodiac astrology while introducing new ones.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 2004 DW in Canis Minor: Death, lost battle, ressurectiOM.
                         Slain god cults.
 
 2004 DW in Orion:  1957 was a peculiar year, indeed.
                    Family values, new colors and sounds,
                    leisure, fun, atomic bomb. Sicherheit
                    zu Erste. Protection is the main 
                    pO5sessiOM. Orators can be sincere.
 
 2004 DW in Hydra:  Dangerous waters! (present position).
                    One sleeps on sexualaurels. Lolita.
                    Lady Scarlet is teen!
 Since babies born at this time often have Hydra ascending,
 many of them are already "marked" with a 2004 DW ascendant!
 
 2004 DW in Sextans: The Messiah. 2007 Venus in Hydra?
 2004 DW in Crater: The time of the false prophets. LegislatiOM.
 2004 DW in Corvus: Oberon and Puck revived in druidic England
                    and Syria. Dolphin cults. Inspection and
                    spiritual protection. The Holy Raven.
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 /ng.html
 Time to discover your own position and those of your future
 children and favorite tiranitoes. We will use genuine ancient
 ways (stargazing) whernever it's possible to capture 2004 DW 
 's message, more or less messianic.
 
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 666 is no longer alone
 2004 DW in the 6th house is the Whore of the Apocalypse.
 
 Babalon's Progress 
 2004 DW off Tiamat's Back and into the Apocalypse
 Will your daughter be born with Venus in Hydra?
 Largest discovery after Pluto! 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /2004DW 
 Astromajikal Delineation and Update, Mar 5th 2004. 
 See = Adenda = for astrological novices, curious and the expert!
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /ng.html
 
 Note that we dismiss it's "position in Leo" as unsensical.
 Your local astronomer will, of course, agree. Your shaman
 will agree. Nature agrees. Star gazing confirms. So there's
 no need to pay attention to "2004 DW in Leo" gibberish.
 When and if it's in Leo sometimes, we'll let you know.
 It may as well be it never reaches Leo proper. Pluto never
 reaches Aries or Pisces, so that would be no surprise!
 Introduction for the general reader:
 True Zodiac = Albeit generally assumed (?) the zodiac has 
 13 constellations, it has in fact 28 constellations (or 29
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 if we split Serpens Cauda from Serpens Caput). Hydra is 
 not only zodiacal, but also ascendental, meaning many of 
 you were born with Hydra ascending (since occult is at
 stake). One cannot e.g. have Aries ascending in due east.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 The 28zodiac has an astronomical rationale. After my own
 modest research triumphing in indian summer 2003, I have
 found by sheer chance a research has been conducted in
 the late seventies as a couple of astronomers (NC U.S.A.
 and Belgium) with the results published in popular format.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 
 The zodiac has 28 constellations, and if we exclude Pluto
 as planet (something already largely proposed), it has a
 convenient number of 24 (but astrlogers will use 25)
 constellations. This has nothing to do with outdated
 vedic calc and has everything to do with IAU. 
 Giant Transneptunians = objects larger than the main belt
 asteroids (e.g. Eunomia or Vesta). They are usually fall
 into cubewano (Varuna) or plutino (Ixion) class. The SDO
 or Scattered Disk Objects are also taken into account.
 Since 1992 we have discovered 800 transneptunians.
 Centaurs = popular lively objects "closer" to us. Chariklo
 and Hylonome are female centaurs. Among the others Cyllarus,
 Thereus, Nessus, Pelion, Chiron, Elatus, Pholus, 2004 CJ39.
 Extrazodiacal = A convenient term that may drop out soon
 as it served it's purpose. It may even create some confusion 
 when Pluto is degraded as plutino. Use "28 Constellations
 Zodiac" to upgrade from 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 Disposing of Pluto, we are left with a convenient (?) 24 
 constellations zodiac. In that cases constellations such 
 as Bootes would be called "extrazodiacal", along with Pluto's
 (a.k.a. "out of bounds") "extreme" = extrazodiacal positions.
 Ascendant = Eastern constellation and inorganic being (especially
 head or ascended master-star). Aries cannot ascend in due east at
 this time and age, but it used to at the time when Crater was an
 ascendental constellation, too. 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 4examples.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 for "extrazodiacal" (!:) constellations.
 One note: 
 The "13th" constellation is Ophiucus, a large strip of the zodiac.
 As the Sun spends an average of (roughly!) six days in Scorpius, it
 slips by Ixion into Ophiucus to meet Quaoar, Pluto, 2002 MS4 there, 
 along with the Moon, Mercury, Venus and (all) other planets, as well.
 For Pluto and Jupiter in Ophiucus see = Adenda = at the bottom of 
 this article. At the time you read this, Pluto may be moving into 
 Scutum (the resent position of Juno!: see Juno-minded appendix).
 Have a planet in Ophiucus? Search 
http://groups.google.com
 for 
 "Sun in Ophiucus" or "Venus in Ophiucus" delineations. That 
 applies for Saturn or Venus in Orion and other 28zodiacal
 poO5itions, "Venus in Hydra" including. 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 (continued)
 
 Whatever difficult position you may have in your nativity,
 hard work benefits. Monastery discipline is needed to overcome
 this object's influence. Abramelin would particulary elaborate
 on it, but we have Elipinon! 
http://www.lava.net/~pagios
 
 Statements like "2004 DW in Leo" have no sense. By the way,
 Pluto is never in Aries or Pisces. 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 Hydra is a long thing, so 2004 DW's journey through Hydra 
 roughly lasts 12 years. You can have Hydra ascending, of 
 course, in your own natal chart (but you can't have e.g.
 Aries ascending). 2004 DW in Hydra roughly 1984 - 2006.
 
 Parenting in 2007? You are not alone, either. 
 See also "Venus in Hydra". The site abounds with data
 pointing to possible special incarnations, especially in 2007!
 Parents should exercise extra timing and ritual!
 
 It seems like the devils blow their 13th trombone
 After giant Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/enter.html
 
 we have 2004 DW. Lady Scarlet of the Apocalypse 
 bathes in her poisonous pool as female monsters 
 rise. Whoever saith antiChrist's a male?????????????
 The site includes the calculations and birthright of the
 antichrists. Will your daughter be born with Venus in Hydra?
 
 Lady antiChrist born yet? It may well be that cynical half
 jests and obscure astronomical hints nevertheless hide the
 truth. Masonry knows the starry Snake crowned with the Moon.
 Now when Venus approaches Hydra and the Moon brushes by...
 Venus is the maiden, Hydra (the Snake) and the Moon are part
 to the apocalyptical scenary. Prayers addressed to Holy Mary
 will be successful, as She counters the dramatic scenary with
 central return, peace and concentratiOM. 
 
 Our blood is poison to the lips of the Beast!
 An object larger than Quaoar has been recently discovered. 
 This article will require some familiarity with the True
 Zodiac made of 28 constellations. Those include Hydra, 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 (Tiamat, with it's demons-ministers-sattelites, riding on 
 it's back) Sextans, Crater, Corvus. Since Chariklo is a
 centaur, and so is 2004 CJ39, some knowledge about the
 centaur objects seems welcome. For an early Quaoar delineation 
 use: 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar/quaoar.html
 Important
 objects like 2002 AW197 must be studied, too. One can
 use 
http://groups.google.com
 or our own search engines
 to obtain early delineations of any centaur or transneptunian.
 
 The greatest discovery after Pluto, 2004 DW receives it's
 first delineation. As we had Quaoar in houses, so we have
 2004 DW in Houses  
 
 The largest discovery after Pluto may be the Devil Himself
 for some and Loving Guardian Angel for the rest. Such is
 it's dual nature. Man has two minds and it is 2004 DW that
 makes them clash asunder towards the apocalyptic End of Time.
 2004 DW in Houses
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /ng.html
 
 Among the predictable and average errors will be this object's
 assignation to "tropical Leo", an unexisting and absolutely foul
 preassumption of the poor mind. 2004 is not nearly in Leo, it is
 in Hydra. Worse: it is not heading towards any "astrological"
 constellation, as the illustrations clearly show and purporting
 text discusses in some (even mythological) detail. 
 
 The other gross errors will spring from the aspects of 2004 DW.
 People assume the zodiac is some kind of ring. It is a belt 
 made of 28 constellations (not 13). While 2004 DW may hold
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 extrazodiacal positions (kind of tricky to check out), it
 nevertheless perfectly occupies _zodiacal_ constellations,
 such as Hydra, Sextans, Crater, Corvus, Orion, Aquila, to
 mention some. Venus is in Orion this summer so Orion is a
 zodiacal constellation. This truism will puzzle alanleist
 astrologers, more than his own inabillity to calc his chart.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 /alan.leo /dane.rudhyar (corrections)
 Some will assume a distant Sun has this or that aspect, even
 conjunction with 2004 DW, while the objects will be constellations
 apart. This is largely an error with stars, such as Beta Persei
 or Scheat (or 2002 TX300 giant transneptunian) and a variety
 (actually majority!) of objects (including some planets!) with
 "out-of-bound" (bound?) positions, e.g. "extreme" (???) 
 declinations. First he assumes the zodiac has 12 (???) "signs"
 (?????), then he assumes all planet(oid)s "glide" along the
 same (fairly circular) track. Then errors spring. People
 already fancy conjunctions and even squares, since no one
 told them (you tell what you know) the basics. People thinking
 the zodiac has 13 (or even 12) "signs" are genuinely and raving 
 equinoctially mad. For all practical (?) purposes we assume Pluto 
 is a planet, and so most of you do assume there is something like
 a 12 sign zodiac. One took some school drafts too seriousely. 
 
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /ng.html
 
 In North Carolina there's an observatory that knows the 28 zodiacal
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 constellations. And there's an astronomer in Belgium that agrees.
 The truth must be told to the ahstrological communtity (even if they
 won't listen), since there are rare "incarnations" among them that
 have "astrological" (or even astronomical) aspects in their charts.
 A few of them could study astrology. This would rise the number of
 astrologers on this planet from perhaps half a dozen to dozenful.
 (This is the first annotation, rough keywords used.)
 The houses are usually numerated and "understood" in
 a crooked way, e.g. the house of the rising Sun is
 labeled 12th, and has a particullary bad reputation.
 Let us be certain that the devil installs minds. Astrologers
 have minds. The suggestion is to use 12th=1st, 11th=2nd and
 so on. It is still better to use a 28 house system (allowing
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 29 for Caput and cauda Serpentis) in our fully operative and
 astronomically precise 28 constellation zodiac. 
 1. Lamia. Three watersnakes with female faces seduce the youth
    like Ida Pingala and Shushumna. Study Aquila and Leo. Alchemy.
    666 is allone, even after a ritual with a compatible Beast.
    NEM0's whiteness is not like silvery apparition. Brahma's
    womb is not sunnya sunnyata. Voidless Void. O5 NETI NETI. 
    Final annihilation. Loneliness. There's N0 0NE BUT ME!
    Agent Smith's "Me, me, me!". Projection. Futile riches.
    Gay cataclysm. Satan. The Fall. Ecliptic times. The primal
    wound. Left body stirring. The Dark Side. The triumph of 
    Naga Sadow. All fall! Hell is white. 
 
    The three-in-one vampirelike monster of the pool is however 
    devoured by their victim after having sex with him. Lamia is
    not a bad alternative (to Aiwass) for this object, at least
    while it venoms our perception pool with triurne kundalini.
    Wav files as opposed to mp3 files. Waves as opposed to life
    compression. cOMpress time, rather than life. Don't waste a
    second. Gulp it up. Devour the day.  
    Scarlet Lady masquerading as watermonster? Don't we have
    submarines? /1/
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
 
 2. You give too much of your energy. This is bad for money 
    matters. Jesus Christ was ultimately sold. The formula
    of the dying God. Do not lend on interest. Save yourself 
    first. Keep some for yourself. 
    Your vital energy is beng sucked through as the vampire gets
    away with it. The sacrifice was accepted by the greedy inorganic,
    yet there is no receipt note or thanksgiving or anything in left 
    in exchange. 
    Hell's entrance. PORTA INFERNA. Set in the Desert. Lucifer.
    Particularly demoniac with Venus Lucifer position (in Hydra). 
 
    Lost aircrafts. Highjacking. Deliberately shot airplane.
  About Sedna in the Second House
 Baghdad has Sedna in second house. Since year 762
 it was a rich city. "Resourceful" is a better word
 for second house matters. The second house is also
 PORTA INFERNA. The lord of this world is the inorganic
 parasit-predator (voladero, devil) that installs his
 own mind instead of the original one into the newborn
 on which it feeds. Our beliefs are thus the product of 
 an inorganic strategy. Thus the saints chose caverns,
 not libraries. 
 3. Good will prevail. True Mind triumphs in Silence and Intent.
    This is bad for merchandize, ego, transactions and the devil.
    Roughly meaning there is sympathy between the devil and the
merchant.
    Satan's source code. The MatriX. The well of the snakes.
    Hell protecting the water of life. Black shiatsu.
 4. Excellent for homely matters. Cosy home. Warm familiar
    atmosphere. A Note: but that may take quitesome time!
    A promise of a warm hearth, even if family life has
    been less than ideal up to now. Note that we use the
    nadir or due North instead of mere I.C.
    Note that with Hydra North this is the Pool of the Lamia.
    A sort of Scarlet Lady's basin (of the blood of the saints).
    Love all serve bloody all.
    A very good position! Angel guardian. Homework for my students:
    when Hydra is due North, what do we face South? Love, lover,
    love affairs, friendly dispO5ition, basic sincere friendship,
    true communism, spirit of alliance, the ally, inorganic help.
    An ally-angel carries the acolyte beyond this world.
    "We will rock you little snake", devil rocked and warm in the
    cradle of fillit, and one gets away without it! Liberation
    with the help of the ascended Masters. Heads. Nadiric angel.
    Time to study your own chart's Nadir to determine your Angel
    of the Nadir. Rather tricky if you are familiar with I.C. only!
    Evocation of the nadiric inorganic entity. Sure success in all.
    This is also a disk Cretely fair material situation, all goes
well.
    In horary astrology: SHE LOVES YOU!
    We can predict the rise of Nadiric astrology at this point!
    Too early since our horaries can't calc the Moon:)
 5. Unsure of one's own jealousy. Too reserved or outspoken
    to be provoked into jealousy. One may even wish well one's
    own rival. The ultimate vendetta is Love. The futile triumph
    of the jealousy agent provocateur. Jealousy countered from
    the very start. Expert jealousy v/s juvenile training.
 Love is particullary stressed with Venus (and 2004 DW) in
 Cancer (the conjunctions in Hydra are interesting, and
 Sextans is yet another remarkable zodiacal constellation,
 rather inclined towards loneliness). 
 
    Love will devour everything, it's own vampire including.
    Turn around from lovesex. Get rid of that partner. 
    Sex as escape. Release of sperm and kundalini overweight.
    This is surely not a kundalinic obesity pO5sition. 
    Touch'n'go!
    One night stand.
 6. Indulgence. Love all serve all. Devour all?
    The whore (serve all). Scarlet Lady. Our Lady Babalon.
    A harlot will learn. 
    To banish (discreate), use sibiline verse addressed to Holy
    Queen Mother as given below.
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
 7. Excellent for marriage. Note that we use the western horizon
    instead of tropical astrology descendant. See our correction
    of Rudhyar and Leo 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /alan.leo /dane.rudhyar
    The wife as best enemy of the devil inside. Shy hermit is not
    Christ in hiding? Magdalen the Savior. Ciesa dea Madalena 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/venexia
 Piglet saving the Tiger.
    Invisible wife's allies, familiaries, the fallen, meek shall
    florish. Non-persons. An inorganic wife (dwarfish or orkish
    rather than undine).
 Sedna's dolphins entwined are quite the opposite to the triurne 
 Lamia of 2004 DW. Aloof Sedna has much love, but 2004 DW is a
 dangerous siren. Luckily for the thick skinned magus, 2004 DW
 will bite only to die from the poisonous magician's blood.
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
 8. Fertile impregnation. The watersnake. Tiamat raging in War.
    The vampire fertilized. Meditate on the 47.
    Vagina with teeth (various northamerican legends, tibetan
    mandalas). Samsara as devouring entity. Merchandizing.
    Quarrel. Third party intruding. Cutting off heads, punishing,
    cutting off legs. Legal constraint. Bribery? Jack of axe.
    Extreme severity in legislation. The law, the model.
    Making love through the barricades (Spandau Ballet).
 
    The wars are for the intelligent to learn. In war 2004 DW is
    madness and religious paranoia. Holy wars were announced by
    darkplanet Nemesis-Lamia conjunct Puto, Varuna and of course
    Quaoar. 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
    Schizodarknesseeks religious centre. O5 gives spheremajikal
    geometrical barycentre. Aikido. Keep one point. Concentration. 
    Sex is, after all, one point! Phallic Sun, ejaculaion. The
    birth of a good and religious child. He shall travel.
    World religions apartunited by Lady Babalamia.
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
    Sometimes the errors and misconceptions expand to the 8th and
    5th house. It is possible that people have several planets in
    the wrong houses.
 9. Passion. Dissipation. This is not good for the Spirit.
    As they nibble the fruit of my flesh, I feel no pain.
 
    Evil mantras will not have their way. Angelic operation in 
    the deep hells. Devahans under attack. Lord Shiva firing
    his Trisula. Major discreation. Learning the secret of 
    the House of Hell. Intelligence and commando. dr. John
    Dee (agent 007 of H.R.H.) inspecting enochian domains.
    This position is fertile ground for the student. Forget 
    Vitriol 726 and concentrate on the Sound of Victory.
    Left body stirring (but how!). Secret operation. 
    Global manipulation. The Dark Lodges. Our Lady Babalon. 
10. Go for that partner. Climb social steeps. Or let thy weight
    roll downhill, instead of pushing it up. Thelema. Khaled Khan.
    Hydra at the meridian. The zenith of the 28 constellation
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
    zodiac. 
11. Legal interference. A disturbance in the Force.
    The waters of the pool stirred?
    This does not seem a bad position at all. 
    There is lot to work and learn and students and masters gat
    along fine. There's willingness to learn. 
    Bad karma is dispelled.
12. Love divine. Moksha. True Love. Especially favorable with
    Venus in Cancer. Less favorable with Venus in Hydra, Sextans.
    Chariklo in Crater should be taken into account. The Graal.
    We all have loved you, acolyte (says Lamia-Kundalini-Maya). 
 
    Original illumination. One shuns followers and is himSelf
    begging no advantageous gods. 
    This is what Herman Hesse wrote of. 
    Be extra careful with 6th and 7th house planets, as well as
    1st and 7th house placements as most astrological programs
    mistake the real positions, assuming the Sun rises in Due East.
    E.g. many of you have Neptune in 6th and not in 7th as the program
    shows. This is due to southern latutude and due western horizon.
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 
 Prayers shall be addressed to Holy Mary > The Queen of Omniverse.
 4>57 Yilin transl. Robert Matushan boyler(at)
hidden-city.net
 " Troubles are dissolved and worries are removed, with the help of 
 the Queen Mother, participating in happiness all arrive and I can 
 live in peace. "
 Let this Han dynasty verse discreate apprehension ("verso" means
 "I sip" (pour) in italian" and establish the rulership of the good
 Queen of Omniverse om mahalaxmyai namah (Holy Mary for christians).
 The siren voice of senses is thus hushed. Hydra launches kundalini 
 up (and down!) the spine, hardly purified, indeed. When kundalini
 is not pure ( > alt.clearing.O5 ), then
 When the siren cries, we launch p+sitive mantras, rather than just 
 tap our ears! ( And whle inner and outer blend, we can "discreate"
 that voice as inner. Let it be noted that that's a long way from 
 evocation and intercourse with the inorganic. The Lamia event is
 what we call sex with the vampire (to the ultimate detriment of 
 the vampire). Our blood is poison for the lips of the Beast!
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
    Love will devour everything, it's own vampire including.
 Bad keys:
 47 the vampire, one's life force gulped up by one's personal
 devil or "voladero", the three Lamia or kundalinic watersnakes
 sucking up the young acolyte's sexual energy, oral sex as path 
 to paradisisiac planets (not to moksha), swallowing sperm (as
 in the vedas), kundalini as vampyre, Kali trumphant as killer,
 jealousy, unwillingness to sumbit to good and (perhaps) obvious
 authority, flaming with pride, unable to respect local/native
 customs, lawless, troubled karma, intruding third person, 
 third man, go-beat-win, the devil itself, los volad-eros,
 Kairo in flames, Set and his temporary victory over O5iris, 
 the staff of Set, Nibiru in triumph, warring Marduk, the 
 anrgy 4 archangelstars, lingam flying away on Maha Shivarathri.
 Good keys:
 Waking up with the house on fire, Lucifer as enlightment
 bringer, the good salamander, Jupiter's Great Year and 
 good influence, Great Guardian Angel, love triumphs over
 jealousy, TrueMind triumphs over False Ego, the 4 archangels,
 the essence of heavenly love, illumination through love divine,
 the Sphynx victorious, Saint Marc's winged lion with a sword
 (his second gospel), PAX TIBI MARCE EVANGELISTA MEVS, Thelema,
 Sai Baba, swallows in spring, Lesser Banishing Pentagram Ritual,
 overcoming the distrust of the mob perhaps even obtaining fealty. 
 
 The rightous have no need to fear the Whip of God, since
 it is a friendly Ripple of Change for them! 
 TrueMind triumphs over False Ego. This means the object is
 Moon-friendly, but most likely to be Sun-unfriendly. The Sun
 does not venture into Sextans or Hydra, but the Moon does and
 Venus will "shortly" be there, too (after Orion).
 
 The Moon (Isis) stands for True or Initiated Mind. 
 The Sun of course stands for the devil's install
 or false ego. This is a truism in India as well
 where Shiva is said to be higher than Krishna,
 a lunar deity overriding the solar one, True Mind
 emerging. It is worthless that the Moon is taken for
 the soul's true significator! The Moon can be far
 from the Sun, as it stomps from Sextans to Orion. 
 
 Venus and 2004 DW in Cancer make a loving pair! 
 This combination seems to be one of the luckiest
 in astrology at large! Cancer stands for the constellation. 
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 A large object has been spotted in a disturbing constellation.
 Hydra is Tiamat and has been rising it's head when important
 occult operations were conducted, such as the writing of the
 Book of Law. This puts us on guard against this object, which
 will, amazingly disclose it's loving side like no Valentine
 Centaur ever did!
 
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Since the young reader might not be acquainted with Thelema or
 whatever shumerian monsters, we owe him an explanation. Better,
 here's another example! Lovecraft often threathened with gods
 and forces from old, the ancients, finding their way from sealed
 past tombs into this world. The Necronomicon is said to be one
 such dubious unlocking key for more devils to come in and play.
 The Star Wars fans will know the Sith and Krath, Naga Sadow,
 Freedon Nadd, Ulic Qel-Droma and of course Extar Kun. The Force
 has no dark or bright side as Dao knows neither yin nor yang.
 It is the use of the Force to determine it's color.
 2007 with Venus approaching Hydra's Head through Hydra's 
 demon minister Sextans, with so much Satrun and Regulus
 has already been marked as special. This time we have a
 devilish object influenced by Saturn (Venus translates
 Saturn's energy bumping into 2002 AW197). All luciferian
 implications of Venus are activated as Saturn stands for
 the king (Regulus) of Hell itself, in person, so to say.
 = Visiting the Monsters = 
                            2004 DW and Hydra - Tiamut
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 An object larger than Quaoar has been discovered recently.
 This article will require some familiarity with the True
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 Zodiac made of 28 constellations. Those include Hydra, 
 (Tiamat, with it's demons-ministers-sattelites, riding on 
 it's back) Sextans, Crater, Corvus. Since Chariklo is a
 centaur, and so is 2004 CJ39, some knowledge about the
 centaur objects seems welcome. For an early Quaoar delineation 
 use: 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar/quaoar.html
 Important
 objects like 2002 AW197 must be studied, too. One can
 use 
http://groups.google.com
 or our own search engines
 to obtain early delineations of any centaur or transneptunian.
 Note that 2004 DW scratches Hydra's back visiting her monsters.
 This is more like towards a homework for the students, since
 we sometime work on the delineations twogether. 2004 DW in 
 Sextans, Crater and Corvus is like three plagues if we observe
 the dark side of 2004 DW, and this object most certainly has it!
 "Visiting the Monsters" can be said to happen roughly every 100 
 years or so. We are risking quite some accuracy at this point, 
 the orbital elements being still updating, but you've got the
 idea. 
 When sitchinian Tiamut is taken for ex planet and her "monsters"
 = ministers are sattelites (e.g. evil Wind), we launch our
experimental
 nibiric binary system on the basis of old chinese codes, see also
 Nibiru under 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 ( Enuma Elish ).
 Abouts:
 
 28 Constellation Zodiac 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Our Newsgroup: news://
aurora.lightlink.com/alt.clearing.O5
 
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Extrazodiacal Astrology 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Enuma Elish, Tiamat, Nibiru 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 Valentine Centaur 
http://puck.dhs.org/centaurs
 /2004CJ39
 Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar
 /quaoar.html
 Transneptunians 
http://puck.dhs.org/2003
 /tno
 All Objects on 
http://groups.google.com
 Archives 
http://www.escribe.com/theory/puck
 Ixion & the Centaurs intro 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 
 Scourge/Whip of God or the Tail of the Devil ? 
 
                                         2004 DW Largest KBO
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 = 2004 DW a Bat out of Hell = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 The devil, personal or otherwise, has been dubbed "voladero",
 using Carlos Castaneda's firsthand hellish experiences and
 some of our own. This object, more than Quaoar, will resist
 delineation, worse than in the remote case of Varuna, the
 unfathomable object. For Varuna see 
http://groups.google.com
 When we say man has two minds, we allude to the foreign install
 averagely at the tender age of three being not our mind at all. 
 Compare with "Dark City" and "Matrix" the movies.  
 
 The position of this major transneptunian object in Hydra
 is close to the Ascendant of the Book of Law, Kairo 1904.
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 O5 Initiations, Astrological Services, I Ching Consultation
 SMS +385 91 108 108 4 
ana...@spunge.org
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 Let not the word "love" be associated with popular sexual 
 allusion only. 2004 DW has much thelemitic about it as 
 Love is the Law, but Love under a Strong Will (or, rather, 
 True Will).
 Love is terrifying to everyone. It terrified people who met 
 "angels", like the One who wrestled with the "ally" "at 
 Peniel" (Face of God). (A form of the word "Peniel", in  
 fact determines the angel, as well as the wrestlinground).
 
 This object's totems are the four archangels. Meaning the
 four royal stars of Persia. 
 The main problem with simple interpretation of this 
 "object"-spirit is that it bears both Love Divine and 
 the most terrifying wrath of Satan in it's own lap! 
 With Chariklo and 2004 DW at the lap-bottom, Venus going
 into a mad loop with Saturn Regulus and kissing 2002 AW197,
 August 2007 seems to be the birthplace of Satan. 
 
 I was tempted to determine the birth time for the "ideal"
 antiChrist, using this new object and perhaps I did the
 work too well. Namely, Venus in it's lowest position and 
 retrograde, heading towards Hydra with a strong ifluence
 from Saturn and Regulus alone "make me wonder". We have
 copious material about "extrazodiacal" Venus on the site
 and 
http://groups.google.com
 "Venus+extrazodiacal".
 
 Some will justly conclude that the Devil himself paid us a
 visit (as if he wasn't in our every cradle?). In 2004 DW
 the absurd but deadly victory of the inorganic pest we call
 the personal devil (voladero) clashes with the triumphing
 True Mind. 
 Love is particullary stressed with Venus (and 2004 DW) in
 Cancer (the conjunctions in Hydra are interesting, and
 Sextans is yet another remarkable zodiacal constellation,
 rather inclined towards loneliness). 
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Abouts:
 
 Enuma Elish, Tiamat, Nibiru 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 Constellation Zodiac 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 Valentine Centaur 
http://puck.dhs.org/centaurs
 /2004CJ39
 Quaoar 
http://puck.dhs.org/quaoar
 /quaoar.html
 Transneptunians 
http://puck.dhs.org/2003
 /tno
 All Objects on 
http://groups.google.com
 Archives 
http://www.escribe.com/theory/puck
 Ixion & the Centaurs intro 
http://puck.dhs.org/usenet.html
 Our Newsgroup: news://
aurora.lightlink.com/alt.clearing.O5
 
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Updates: 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Extrazodiacal Astrology 
http://puck.dhs.org/extra
 
 The label "Aiwass" for the planetoid is provisory, and
 as are this fairly accurate ephemeris by Jon Giorgini
 of NASA JPL, to whom go all our thanks and esteem.
 Please assume the object is still a puzzle as it's
 orbital elements are being determined with progressive
 precision. In the first days of the discovery, it was
 thought a cubewano, then a plutino, and it's relative 
 magnitude is still estimated. As son as the object's 
 orbital elements are esteemed reliable, numerical
 integration is possible for distant dates. Aldo Vitagliano
 and his Solex software use the NASA model to calculate
 dates otherwise not supplied by NASA HORIZONS. 
 Aleister Crowley 2004 DW
 1875-Sep-20 00:00     288.9969990   8.7303227
 1875-Oct-01 00:00     288.9629561   8.7020916
 1875-Oct-12 00:00     288.9919660   8.6722306
 1875-Oct-23 00:00     289.0843245   8.6425650
 1875-Nov-03 00:00     
289.2384987
   8.6147722
 The 1600 - 2100 ephemeris are on the site. The files are 
 comparatively large (over 1 Mb). Mail for compressiOM!
 
 Largest discovery after Pluto! 
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 Updates on:                   
http://puck.dhs.org/2004DW
 Adenda
 ====== Pallas and Juno have been included. Juno is too small 
        to have any meaning in modern astrology, being dwarfed 
        by too many minor planets, but it retains a historical
        ... charm. Albeit small, Pallas is considerably up the 
        perimeter range. The giant transneptunians have been
        dwarfing the main belters for quite some time now.
 Pallas meets 2004 DW in Hydra. Pallas wherabouts in short.
 
 = NEAT Pallas = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 April 1st 2004 Pallas and giant comet NEAT meet in Eridanus
 constellation. Hopefully the river Po in Italy will not flood,
 as Eridanus is that precise river. 
 Pallas leaves Cetus (where it was able to conjunct Moon in Cetus)
 for Eridanus and NEAT, heading towards it's doom in Al Nitak or
 CINGVLA ORIONUS. 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 Orion O5IRIS
 Both Eridanus and Orion are operative constellations used in 
 astrology. We don't use just the 28 zodiacal, but all the 88
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 constellations, completing embracing enfolding inspiring and
 overhelming our belowed coocoon astral energy body like an egg
 projecting or being Omniverse itself, as the Eagle presses His
 Intent unto us.
 Those with Aquila ascending (roughly Chiron around the ascendant)
 may have Juno in Scutum (see article) around the ascendant at this
 time.
 Pallas in CINGVLA ORIONIS will be delineated for the inner circle
 of O5IRIS students.
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 O5 Initiations, Astrological Services, I Ching Consultation
 SMS +385 91 108 108 4 
ana...@spunge.org
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 = Ascendental Warning = 
 It is often tricky to determine when an object is on the 
 ascendant, as we have clearly pointed at in the cases of
 some astrologer's charts 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /alan.leo
 While 2004 DW in Hydra is a normal ascendental position,
 the neighboring example of Chariklo in Crater serves for
 an example in cases when 2004 DW will visit that constellation.
 When due East ( = the ascendant proper ) is in Virgo ( a
 fairly large constellation ), Crater with Chariklo are
 ascending, too. One may say his due eastern ascendant
 is Virgo, with Chariklo rising in Crater. It seems the
 only way to put it. Thus we treat several ascending
 constellations in some cases, namely the true due 
 eastern constelllation ad the neighboring one.
 In different times different constellations are due
 eastern. Crater was and will be such a constellation
 and it is interesting to note Aries can rise in due
 east roughly in times when Crater does so. The two
 cannot ascend in due east when it comes to our present 
 time. 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
 for details! 
 *
 The following verses have to do with 28zodiacal astrology. 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 In the case of Pallas meeting 2004 DW in Hydra, our object
 is directly involved. In other cases it is either in some
 sort of aspect like (large) opposition or it is not involved
 at all. The following are just examples from a broader
 survey on the 28zodiac 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 Do astrologers use constelaltions like Ophiucus or Auriga?
 They do! The stars are there! Also: the discoveries are there,
 e.g. Quaoar in Ophiucus. As Quaoar is far from Sagittarius, so
 is 2004 DW far from Leo. 
 Is there any difference? There is! If your Moon is in Sextans,
 you are prone to discrete aloofness, lonely pursuit, and may
 even be too shy to form a relation (or too ambitious to keep
 it). Moon in sextans people simply work too much, think too
 much and the yellow brick road to hell is paved with golden
 benevolence. Too much of a good thing? Perhaps losing an edge
 is not that bad for concentration. Monasteries may abound with
 Moon in Sextans people. New Year 2004 nativities are bent towards
 any occult pursuit and wil enjoy memorable fish dinners, as their
 Moon is in Cetus. 
 Popular programs like 
astrolog.org
 by Walter Pullen can perform
 fairly well in the area of 28zodiacal and extrazodiacal astrology.
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 The function is
 $ astrolog -XF -Xi -Xr -Xm
 You should obtain something like Juno in Scutum and that's 
 28zodiacal astrology proper (albeit the zodiac pertains to
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 the planets, only partially /so-to-say/ to the minor planets.
 Et voila!
 March hares 2004 have Juno in Scutum? Are they mad? 
 = Juno in Scutum = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 28zodiacal astrology includes Scutum constellation. Being
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 born with Aquila ascending this days means having Juno in
 Scutum in the 12th or 1st house. Never use tropical calculus
 to know which, one, it'll fail. 
 
http://puck.dhs.org/extrazodiacal/scutum
 What is this position about? The evil majikian uses his
 majik mirror and fogs timespace. Especially time. Time
 lapses get less reliable here.
 Marriage gets dull. There's agression ahead of an average
 sullen day. Triangle relationships break up and one finds
 oneself temporarely alone. 
 Allone eternal but constancy does not mean escaping the 
 tooth of time. The practice of time discreation. Intent
 enables teleportation. 
 
 Marriage was determined from the start as if parameters
 won't change. The very institution of marriage is not
 only in crisis: it is unbearable: nothing there for the
 neophyte.
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 O5 Initiations, Astrological Services, I Ching Consultation
 SMS +385 91 108 108 4 
ana...@spunge.org
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 So if I have Chiron ascending, Juno is in the 12th house in 
 Scutum? Is that getting too exciting? What about some more?
 Beware the serpent's tail, since it is about to hit!
 = Pluto in Serpens Cauda = 
http://puck.dhs.org
 
 
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 Let it be noted that, while Pluto is still in Ophiucus at the
 time of the article, it'll move into Serpens Cauda towards 2006
 and it'll be Jupiter rejoicing with Ixion, Quaoar and 2002 MS4
 in Ophiucus at that time. 
 Thus Serpens Cauda is not a fictious invention of some 28zodiacal
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 astronomy, it is a real planetary position (while Pluto is still a
 planet). While a bunch of astronomers (rare fellows) will agree on
 a 28 constellation zodiac, we have found convenient to split Serpens
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 into it's two halves, thus we have Pluto in Serpens Caput (Alpha
 Serpentis!) and Pluto in Serpens Cauda, the mild version of the
 evil star conjunction. 
 Search 
http://groups.google.com
 for delineations. See also data base
 
http://puck.dhs.org/extrazodiacal
 
 People will be born with several planets in Ophiucus, which in fact
 is not rare at all, Ophiucus being a large zodiacal constellation. 
 What _is_ rare is to have a planet in Scorpius. The narrow stripe of
 zodiacal Scorpius with it's Antares star (and archangel) allows for
 an extremely brief sojourn of any planet. The Sun may spend from 6
 to 7 days in that constellation, making Scorpius nativities extremely
 rare. People are of course made to believe they're born in this or
that
 "sign" by people who'll never know their own Sun's position. That is
 only the dawning of the age of error, as we have people running
around
 with positions erroneous by two houses or two "signs", believing one
 is a "Scorpio". Myself born Nov 28 have Sun conjunct Antares and am
 
http://puck.dhs.org/28
 28zodiac = True Astronomical Zodiac
 qualified as true Scorpius. But how many of you can claim that
position?
 (C) 2003 Klaudio Zic 
http://puck.dhs.org/ng.html
 
 O5 Initiations, Astrological Services, I Ching Consultation
 SMS +385 91 108 108 4 
ana...@spunge.org
 
http://puck.dhs.org
 Bonus
 =====
 It seems we have Usama bin Liden here again. After we have
 discovered his (very very probable, indeed) natal Moon is
 conjunct Xi2 Orionis (the Moon approaches this part of Orion
 at the time of the WTC tragedy), now it seems this very Moon
 conjuncts 2004 DW "under the auspices of Orion, the hunter".
 Orion is much more, even O5IRIS: 
http://puck.dhs.org/nu
Sedna   531.657634 0.857434  11.9304 144.4929 311.8271 53200.5
357.8815  1.7
2003VB12   531.657634 0.857434  11.9304 144.4929 311.8271 53200.5
357.8815  1.7
Cruithne    0.99764 .514819  19.8114 126.4230  43.6000 48200.5
285.4393 15.0
2004CJ39    12.952050 0.477604   3.5772 334.9720 133.6604 53040.5  
5.4183 14.0
2004DW      39.473609 0.217911  20.5553 268.5371  73.3331 53200.5
157.5394  2.4
Quaoar      43.190771 0.035717   7.9905 188.8941 162.6650 52600.5
263.5175  2.6
2002TX300   43.247399 0.121076  25.8982 324.7033 340.8429 52600.5 
55.3912  3.1
2002AW197   47.514918 0.127919  24.3056 297.4198 292.9571 52600.5
279.4183  3.2
Ixion       39.343359 0.243810  19.6720  71.0181 300.7697 52600.5
260.4692  3.2
Vesta       2.36068 .090560   7.1389 104.0147 149.9859 48200.5
152.1895     3.2 Vesta
Ceres       2.766412 0.079116  10.5835  80.4863  73.9844 52400.5
189.2752  3.34
2002TC302  122.272803 0.770739  35.6684  23.9696 277.5245 52560.5 
10.9689  3.4
2002UX25    42.775016 0.145089  19.4311 204.6350 276.7125 52600.5
279.2503  3.3
Varuna       43.271856 0.052987  17.1294  97.2854 275.2209 52600.5 
83.8067  3.7
2003VS2    39.484921 0.077294 14.7767 302.8610 114.1950 53000.5
358.0593 3.9
2003AZ84    45.193412 0.000000  12.8019 249.5290 218.2038 52640.5  
0.0000  4.0
2002MS4    44.862516 0.047481 17.6133 215.7807 229.3647 52460.5
180.0889 4.1
Pallas      2.773483 0.229937  34.8425 173.1716 310.3944 52400.5
175.4143  4.13
Hylonome    24.9497460 .2439515  4.15083 178.23900   6.40615 50600.5  
5.81738  9.0
Chariklo    15.774616 0.171042  23.3793 300.4245 241.4052 51800.5
341.4631  6.4
Chiron      13.620963 0.380997   6.9369 209.3271 339.0985 52600.5 
48.6288  6.5
Nessus      24.6471691 .5202089 15.64988  31.37071 170.70375 50600.5 
15.61413  9.6
Pholus      20.293350 0.573458  24.7014 119.2623 354.6662 52000.5 
37.4805  7.0
Asbolus     17.938026 0.618965  17.6388   6.1062 290.3220 51800.5
351.1203  9.0
1994TA      16.8278941 .3037028  5.39654 137.61909 154.55257 50600.5 
66.13374 11.5
Pelion      20.011721 0.135286   9.3779 127.1688 154.4401 52000.5 
33.0009 10.3
Okyrhoe     8.418944 0.307817  15.6245 173.2011 337.5385 52000.5
259.5288 11.3
Cyllarus    26.403801 0.382563  12.6156  51.9577 301.8605 52000.5 
30.3064  9.3
Elatus      12.814262 0.417323   5.6164  87.3246 289.4474 52000.5 
18.0695 10.1
Thereus     10.637199 0.197835  20.3520 205.3159  86.8955 52200.5 
27.4161  9.0
2003VS2     39.482477 0.077250  14.7767 302.8613 114.2023 53000.5
358.0528  4.2
2003WL7     26.058108 0.502851  10.8188   4.0230  85.9021 53000.5
339.1613  9.2
2003WU172   39.429742 0.218540   4.1330  10.1316  57.0239 52960.5
359.9831  6.8
2003WQ188   46.230682 0.000000   5.3917  35.5887  59.7304 52960.5  
0.0000  6.3
2003WS188   39.327951 0.237192   5.7663 340.6726 102.9952 52960.5
359.9870  9.0
2003WU188   43.190357 0.000000   3.8402  84.1911   7.4085 52980.5  
0.0694  5.8
2003UY117   39.206281 0.145739   7.8579 259.6924 115.7083 52940.5  
0.0241  6.2
2003UZ117   44.519452 0.107550  27.2050 204.4647 200.2300 52940.5  
0.0128  5.6
2003UA118   10.939155 0.304975   4.0786 256.2594 273.5654 52940.5
232.6047 10.7
2003UA118   10.939155 0.304975   4.0786 256.2594 273.5654 52940.5
232.6047 10.7
2003UN284   44.307823 0.044879   3.0541  35.9179  18.1626 52940.5  
0.0129  7.3
2003VS2     39.485241 0.077302  14.7767 302.8610 114.2008 53000.5
358.0544  3.9
2003WL7     27.038660 0.525289  10.7637   3.9090  86.1351 53000.5
340.5625  9.2
2003UA118   10.939155 0.304975   4.0786 256.2594 273.5654 52940.5
232.6047 10.7
2003UA118   10.939155 0.304975   4.0786 256.2594 273.5654 52940.5
232.6047 10.7
2003VS2     39.484921 0.077294  14.7767 302.8610 114.1950 53000.5
358.0593  3.9
1992QB1     43.932720 0.068911   2.1940 359.4691   5.3479 52600.5  
8.2991  7.2
2003QA91    45.087082 0.000000   2.4100 104.5852 221.0398 52880.5  
0.0651  5.1
2003QW90    43.291504 0.032488  10.3642  17.7643 193.2803 53000.5
146.0918  4.5
2003QM91    45.509301 0.090425   3.0541   8.0079 344.0068 52860.5
359.9482  4.2
2003QY90    44.688904 0.000000   3.7429 103.8509 220.4410 52880.5  
0.0660  5.2
2003QA112   46.575885 0.000000  15.0557   1.9458 339.9875 52880.5  
0.0093  5.6
2003SQ222    1.505586 0.518751   3.5627   4.5762 280.7092 53000.5 
75.1908 30.1
1992QB1     43.932720 0.068911   2.1940 359.4691   5.3479 52600.5  
8.2991  7.2
 /*/ Students will check the meridian of such a nativity, proclaiming
     it's auspices holy, relieving, perspicacious, furthering,
eternal,
     productive, expanding, banishing anxieties.
     Let us not forget our 4th moon, too. There's megabytes of this on
     the site. 
http://puck.dhs.org/enter1.html
.

 Luna in auriga anca ti? 
http://puck.dhs.org
 /extra /auriga...CUT
'azz... mi sa che ho evocato lo spirito
del signore degli anelli... di Saturno :)
Allontaniamoci verso (pausa)
il centro dell'universo...