2012/11/20/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

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[02:10] <robru> xnox, ping
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[02:46] <Chucrute301> Smspillaz
[02:46] <Chucrute301> You are here?
[02:46] <Chucrute301> ?
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[04:30] <BigWhale> Good Morning.
[04:56] <pitti> Good morning
[04:56] <RAOF> Good morning pitti, BigWhale!
[04:57] <pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
[04:57] <RAOF> I be fine.
[04:58] <RAOF> Hows about yourself?
[04:59] <BigWhale> I wonder which timezone are you people from ... :>
[04:59] <RAOF> A fine GMT+11 here!
[05:00] <BigWhale> +1 here
[05:00] <BigWhale> yes ... it's 6am ... :>
[05:04] <RAOF> That's perhaps a bit early in the morning ☺
[05:13] <pitti> RAOF: I'm great, thanks!
[05:13] <pitti> BigWhale: right, UTC+1 here
[05:22] <duflu> smspillaz: My first task for this bug was to do what you just logged in a new bug... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1070817
[05:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070817 in Compiz "make test fails in CompizConfigPython.test_* (OTHER_FAULT) " [Medium,In progress]
[05:22] <duflu> So you can have both bugs if you want :)
[05:33] <snkt> hello all
[05:34] <snkt> can anyone help me how the booting process in ubuntu take place... which is the scripts it runs after executing /init ?
[05:38] <RAOF> snkt: upstart runs the jobs configured in /etc/init/; its SysV compatibility layer also runs the appropriate stuff in /etc/init.d
[05:40]  * duflu is surprised to see that quantal still has /any/ legacy init scripts
[05:44] <snkt> RAOF, thanks for instant reply.... actually I want to optimize ubuntu 11.10 bootup time...
[05:45] <snkt> RAOF, right now ubuntu stuck for almost 3-4 mins after executing /init.... and then enters into rc2.d....
[05:45] <snkt> I m not able to figure out where it get stuck and why?
[05:45] <snkt> will you please help me???
[05:46] <RAOF> You'll probably be better served in #ubuntu. And possibly by upgrading to 12.04 :)
[05:49] <snkt> RAOF, I m working on ARM based embedded device
[05:50] <RAOF> duflu: We get a bunch of init scripts from Debian; they're the majority of *my* legacy scripts.
[05:50] <RAOF> Plus, inexplicably, apparmour.
[05:51] <duflu> RAOF: Right, but I assume nothing major in the critical path of boot performance is still legacy-style :)
[06:00] <RAOF> snkt: To better answer your question - have you tried getting a bootchart? Simply installing the bootchart package will get you a bootchart on each boot, with nicely broken down I/O, CPU usage, and process timing.
[06:15] <snkt> RAOF, thanks .... I will try...
[07:09] <didrocks> good morning
[07:13] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:14] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
[07:14] <pitti> didrocks: Mir geht es gut, danke! Und dir?
[07:15] <didrocks> Ich habe gut geschlafen :)
[07:16] <pitti> for the first time in several cycles I get intel GPU hangs again about once or twice per day :(
[07:17] <didrocks> blank screen or hanging? (can you access a tty when it happens?)
[07:17] <pitti> yes, tty work fine; but X freezes, only mouse works
[07:18] <pitti> restarting X sessino then causes a lot of screen corruption and compiz using 100% CPU, so only reboot helps
[07:18]  * pitti hugs byobu
[07:19] <didrocks> I had that last Saturday… during my talk…
[07:19] <pitti> ouch
[07:19] <pitti> didrocks: but in raring, not quantal hopefully?
[07:19] <didrocks> raring yeah
[07:40] <pitti> argh, another freeze
[07:50] <pitti> didrocks: FYI, I reported mine as bug 1081009
[07:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081009 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[arrandale] GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x02000022" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081009
[07:50] <pitti> I do get the .crash files
[07:50] <pitti> bryce, tjaalton: ^ did you hear about GPU lockups in raring? haven't had those for ages
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: subscribing, thanks
[07:56] <pitti> didrocks: do you have Arrandale as well?
[07:57] <didrocks> pitti: I just looked at the crash file, seems to be the same
[07:59] <tjaalton> pitti: Iä
[07:59] <tjaalton> uh
[07:59] <tjaalton> I
[07:59] <tjaalton> damn
[07:59]  * pitti hugs tjaalton
[07:59] <tjaalton> pitti: I'm not on raring yet :)
[07:59] <tjaalton> there
[08:00] <pitti> ah, wise
[08:00] <tjaalton> but I guess you could try the quantal kernel, to see if it's a regression
[08:00] <pitti> yeah, I will
[08:00] <pitti> or rather, whether the bug is in the kernel or mesa etc.
[08:00] <pitti> it is definitively a regression, it just started a few days ago; before that I haven't had freezes since lucid or so
[08:00] <tjaalton> 3.7 did rewrite a bunch of stuff in drm/i915, so it's possible there are some regressions left
[08:01] <tjaalton> well, check if you got a newer kernel
[08:01] <tjaalton> x-wise there hasn't been much updates yet
[08:01] <pitti> yes, it roughly coincides with the update to 3.7
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[09:19] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:22] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:23] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va?
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks, lut, oui, et toi ?
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: ça va bien, en forme! :)
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: meeting report reminder!
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks, oh, thanks
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks, overslept again, I think I'm compensating for the w.e long nights I didn't have this w.e ;-)
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: sehr gut, danke!
[09:24] <didrocks> seb128: heh, I started later as well yesterday and today (~8am instead of 7) :)
[09:24] <seb128> hehe
[09:24] <didrocks> and in the evening, was quite difficult to not fall asleep
[09:24] <Laney> morning
[09:24] <didrocks> hey Laney :)
[09:25] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[09:25]  * Laney had a nap last night ...!
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: oh, que as-tu fait le week-end?
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, j'étais chez didrocks à Lyon
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: à la conference?
[09:25] <Laney> seb128: yeah good thanks, it's my girlfriend's birthday today so we're going out later (and tomorrow, and friday ...)
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, on est allé aux JDLL, une conférence logiciel libre, avec vuntz et d'autres
[09:26] <seb128> Laney, nice!
[09:26] <Laney> I got her a banjo as a present
[09:26] <seb128> Laney, have fun then ;-)
[09:26] <pitti> hey Laney, how are you
[09:26] <Laney> can hear it being played now :p
[09:26] <pitti> Laney: oh wow!
[09:26] <seb128> lol
[09:26] <didrocks> Laney: sounds funny, hoping it'll play fine with the neighbours ;)
[09:27] <pitti> Laney: do you play as well?
[09:27] <pitti> Laney: so that you can perform Dueling Banjos?
[09:27] <Laney> pitti: sadly I'm pretty inept when it comes to music
[09:27] <Laney> really keen to learn piano though
[09:28] <pitti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj9ghC2SgbY :)
[09:29] <Laney> hah
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:45] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[09:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm quite fine, thanks!
[09:47] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, pretty good thanks. still gradually working through test failures ;)
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:48] <seb128> quite good thank you ;-)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> ah, i guess the fullscreen tests will fail in xvfb, without a window manager
[09:58]  * didrocks now builds all upstream source packages (and signing them) inside a cowbuilder chroots, with all build-deps installed \o/
[10:06] <Laney> jibel: pitti: do you know what happened here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/job/raring-adt-libproxy/ARCH=i386,label=albali/lastFailedBuild/console ? looks like the test environment broke?
[10:12] <pitti> Laney: yeah, we can just poke the tests; in meeting, brb
[10:12] <Laney> ok
[10:20] <pitti> Laney: poked
[10:20] <Laney> merci mon ami
[10:21] <pitti> de rien :)
[10:22] <Laney> it'll be good to have access to do that oneself once these start influencing migration
[10:45] <pitti> Laney: so it's happy again
[10:45] <Laney> nice, cheers
[10:46]  * Laney compares console output
[10:48] <Laney> heh
[10:49] <Laney> seems the actual test itself doesn't run with set -x
[10:49] <Laney> so you see an absolute ton of information from the test runner, but not very much from the test
[11:25] <Sweetshark> seb128: could you recheck why bug 1037111 is still stuck? its a security issue and has been waiting for quite some time ...
[11:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037111 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] LibreOffice 3.5.7 for precise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037111
[11:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, because the SRU team is behind in queue review, there are over 30 items waiting in the precise queue and close from 40 in the quantal one
[11:28] <seb128> Sweetshark, try pinging them directly maybe saying that there is a security issue there ... I guess they will ask why it's not going through -security in this case though
[11:34] <Sweetshark> seb128: I will ping security about it, maybe they can fasttrack this one.
[11:39] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[11:47] <Sweetsha1k> seb128: btw I have a call with TDF Advisory Board at 1800CET, so I might be somewhat absent minded in the desktop-meeting
[11:55] <Sweetsha1k> source code comment: "FIXME: STYLE_* duplicate values from editeng::SvxBorderStyle, which in turn duplicates values from com::sun::star::table::BorderLineStyle: this needs cleaning up on master" reviewers comment: "yep it sure does :-)"
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[12:00] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, well the meeting is at 17:30 and should be over by 18
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[13:02] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, running firefox tests with the volume up is always entertaining
[13:08] <qengho> chrisccoulson: hah. I bet a few minutes making a dummy pulse audio sink would be worthwhile, but not as funny.
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> qengho, i hope the machines that run the autopkgtest's have audio hardware :)
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> it would be quite amusing for them to play random sounds every now and again
[13:11] <qengho> chrisccoulson: I'll buy all your beer one day next meeting if you make the tests data sound like UPS-failure klaxons.
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> lol
[14:59] <seb128> bah, after reading bugs around in different bug trackers I'm unsure about g-c-c 3.6
[14:59] <seb128> the ibus stuff sucks :-(
[14:59] <desrt> hater
[14:59] <seb128> lol
[14:59] <seb128> GNOME 3.6 has quite some keyboard related problems, I'm not sure what to do
[15:00] <desrt> 3.8 looks nice?
[15:00] <desrt> :D
[15:00] <seb128> no
[15:00] <seb128> one part of the issue is ibus "simplification"
[15:00] <seb128> one other issue is GNOME design simplification
[15:00] <seb128> some class of users hate not having the "by dialog layout"
[15:01] <desrt> "nobody that i know *actually* speaks chinese... we can remove that option, right?"
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[15:02] <seb128> desrt, something like that yeah... :-(
[15:02] <desrt> was the stated goal of this to force ibus to improve?
[15:02] <seb128> there is a valid usecase to have e.g a command line in "us" layout and an im or document editor in "zh"
[15:02] <desrt> or was it some mix of "it'll do" and "those users will get by..."
[15:03] <desrt> oh
[15:03] <desrt> they removed by-window layouts?
[15:03] <seb128> well, the "by dialog input" was dropped because designers (aday) said "it's too complex of a model to be easily understandable"
[15:03] <seb128> yes
[15:03] <desrt> huh.
[15:03] <desrt> i have to admit that my every attempt to use per-window keyboard layout was utterly utterly miserable
[15:04] <seb128> why?
[15:04] <desrt> i always lost track of what was what
[15:04] <desrt> i'm probably relatively 'stupid' though
[15:04] <desrt> since i never used this feature very extensively, i never got used to it
[15:04] <seb128> the panel indicator tells you
[15:04] <desrt> seb128: i'm not usually looking at chrome while i type
[15:04] <seb128> and people who use it do it in a context which is "logic" to them
[15:05] <seb128> like "command line needs to be "us" for commands"
[15:05] <desrt> seb128: the other thing i found is that new windows were always getting the 'wrong' layout
[15:05] <seb128> "writting im is chinese"
[15:07] <desrt> seb128: did this get properly flamefested on a list yet?
[15:09] <seb128> yeah, ddl
[15:13] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, maxVersion for extensions isn't that imporant anymore right?
[15:13] <kenvandine> it doesn't keep it from working
[15:17] <seb128> grumpf
[15:17] <seb128> didrocks, desrt, kenvandine, mterry, jbicha: how much would you hate staying on g-s-d and g-c-c 3.4 another cycle? ;-)
[15:17] <mterry> seb128, hah
[15:17] <didrocks> seb128: no strong opinion, do what is best for us IMHO :)
[15:17] <kenvandine> i don't think i would care all that much actually
[15:17] <mterry> seb128, seems bad
[15:18] <seb128> mterry, do you volunteer to fix all the world keyboard issues? ;-)
[15:18] <mterry> seb128, are there problems?
[15:18] <seb128> mterry, joke aside read the backlog just before the question
[15:18]  * mterry reads
[15:22] <mterry> seb128, is there a path out or is gnome always going to be bad?  i mean, are we saying we're on 3.4 forever?  (We can't patch in old keyboard behavior and get all the other stuff in 3.6?)
[15:23] <desrt> seb128: i just talked to aday and read the bug about the layout switcher thing
[15:23] <desrt> i get the impression that feature is coming back
[15:23] <seb128> mterry, there are discussions about adding back some of the features but there are at the stage where designers say "yeah, there is a problem but ENOCLUE how to design that feature or to have it look simple"
[15:24] <seb128> desrt, the bug suggest that aday doesn't have a clue how that feature could work in practice yet
[15:25] <mterry> seb128, is the ibus stuff integrated so tightly we could't forward-patch it into 3.6?
[15:26] <seb128> mterry, well, it's quite some changes, I guess we could replace the plugins by the all codebase for the region capplet and for the g-s-d layout code
[15:27] <mterry> seb128, I'm just nervous that we'd apply this same logic to stay on 3.4 while the rest of the desktop moves to 3.8 and 3.10
[15:28] <mterry> seb128, (I don't care much about this particular cycle , i.e. 3.4 vs 3.6 specifically)
[15:28] <mterry> just worried about future
[15:28] <desrt> mterry: hah.  joke's on you.  we stay on 3.4 forever. :)
[15:28] <desrt> (for everything)
[15:28] <mterry> :)
[15:30] <seb128> mterry, yeah, I don't like it either, our g-s-d g-c-c situation has been a pain for 3 cycles
[15:31] <jbicha> desrt: the ibus situation hasn't been flamelisted in a while, we're past due ;)
[15:31] <Laney> I don't really understand the problems
[15:31] <Laney> a mail to -desktop might be best?
[15:32] <seb128> Laney, ubuntu-desktop?
[15:32] <Laney> yeah
[15:32] <Laney> unless you want to start another flamefest :-)
[15:32] <jbicha> every other distro is basically forced into gnome 3.6 though; I don't know anyone else that will try to hold back g-c-c 3.4
[15:36] <jbicha> seb128: is it really that horrible for input-method-users to do the Ctrl+Space thing or whatever whenever they want to switch input methods?
[15:37] <seb128> Laney, see "Re: Better Maintenance of IBus, i.e., the Input Framework" on the list on 2012-10-17 for some of the issues discussed
[15:38] <Laney> ddl?
[15:38] <seb128> Laney, no, ubuntu-desktop list
[15:38] <seb128> jbicha, it's rather the other way around, no distro shipped GNOME 3.6 to users yet ... f18 is delayed to january, Debian is frozen, opensuse is still on 3.4
[15:39] <seb128> jbicha, and yes, having to ctrl-space every time you alt-tab sucks a lot
[15:39] <Laney> hmm
[15:39] <seb128> imagine you alt-tab between your code editor and an im where you chat with a friend
[15:39] <seb128> code and api are in english
[15:39] <seb128> the im is in chinese
[15:39] <seb128> you would need to alt-tal then change layout every time
[15:39] <seb128> worth if you use the mouse
[15:43] <seb128> jbicha, vuntz confirms that opensuse is still on ibus 1.4 and their maintainer refuse to update
[15:43] <seb128> so same story that Debian
[15:44] <cyphermox> did ibus lose the per-app im context or whatever?
[15:44] <seb128> yes
[15:44] <Laney> that was something it did implicitly before?
[15:44] <cyphermox> ah, an interesting decision
[15:44] <seb128> the GNOME guys convinced one of the maintainer
[15:44] <cyphermox> Laney: yeah
[15:44] <Laney> and gnome grows a dep on > 1.5 I suppose
[15:44] <Laney> hmm
[15:45] <seb128> yes
[15:45] <Laney> what's suse doing with gcc/gsc then?
=== Sweetsha1k is now known as Sweetshark
[15:45] <cyphermox> did we get the opinion on that from one of the interested parties? like on -devel I mean?
[15:46] <desrt> it's a bad day for this conversation
[15:46] <seb128> desrt, why?
[15:46] <desrt> aday is sick
[15:46] <desrt> i suggest shelving it for now and letting the flames fly tomorrow
[15:46] <seb128> desrt, well it doesn't need a decision today and it doesn't block us to discuss our GNOME 3.6 strategy
[15:47] <seb128> since 3.6 has the regression anyway
[15:47] <seb128> aday will also not fix ibus which has the same issue...
[15:47] <desrt> i get the feeling that if aday wanted it fixed he could get it fixed
[15:48] <seb128> desrt, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210#c23 suggests it's not an easy case to design/resolve though
[15:48] <ubot2> Gnome bug 684210 in Region & Language ""Separate layout per window" is missing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[15:48] <desrt> seb128: exactly.
[15:48] <desrt> sounds like it could use the work of .... a designer :D
[15:49] <seb128> which gives me the feeling it might not be resolved this cycle
[15:49] <desrt> seb128: what do you care?
[15:49] <desrt> planning a backport from 3.8?
[15:49] <seb128> I don't want those limitations to be released with raring
[15:49] <seb128> well, that would be a way out
[15:49] <desrt> seb128: i mean that you don't really care about gnome development this cycle
[15:49] <seb128> I'm really trying to figure what to do
[15:49] <desrt> right
[15:50] <seb128> well, that's broken in 3.6
[15:50] <seb128> which is why I started with "should we stay on g-s-d/g-c-c 3.4 another cycle"
[15:50] <desrt> can we revert?
[15:50] <desrt> maybe revert the ibus changes and patch in our own version of the UI
[15:50] <seb128> we would loose the ibus integration from 3.6 ... which is what I was leaning toward doing
[15:50] <desrt> or even just have a hidden gsettings flag
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, yeah, I'm leaning toward something like that
[15:52] <seb128> I was just wondering if there is a good reason why we need 3.6
[15:52] <seb128> or if it would be easier to keep the status quo and keep using our current version
[15:52] <desrt> so less discussion, more investigation :)
[15:53] <seb128> well, personally I'm fine staying on 3.4
[15:53] <desrt> jbicha hates you
[15:53] <seb128> right, the GNOME remix is part of the issue
[15:53] <seb128> I've 3.6 installed there
[15:53] <seb128> I didn't see anything compelling in it
[15:54] <seb128> I would have an issue with their new background panel if we didn't decide to just fork that
[15:54] <desrt> ya.  that's pretty hilarious.
[15:54] <desrt> "the old design is so complicated!  let's make it simple!  REALLY REALLY simple!!"
[15:55] <seb128> their new mouse panel is not really nice either if you ask me
[15:56] <desrt> didn't see it yet
[15:56] <seb128> http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2012/08/mouse-panel.png
[15:56] <seb128> it's only text and the alignments are weird
[15:56] <desrt> wtf
[15:57] <desrt> "test your settings" is hilarious
[15:57] <desrt> this is almost a joke
[15:57] <desrt> it has a picture of a cat
[15:57] <seb128> ;-)
[15:57] <desrt> okay
[15:57] <desrt> actually, it's kinda cute
[15:57]  * desrt gets it now
[15:58] <desrt> it's a picture of a cat and a girl holding a kite
[15:58] <desrt> and it's there so that you have to scroll up to see the kite
[15:58] <desrt> thus testing your scrolling settings
[15:58] <seb128> yeah
[15:58] <seb128> it's the main screen which looks weird to me, the test screen is ok
[15:59] <seb128> well, anyway I don't care much about those, that panel is not an important one and we keep our version of "background"
[15:59] <desrt> if you do 5 quick clicks on the test area it says 'Five clicks, GEGL time!'
[15:59] <seb128> lol
[16:01] <jbicha_> seb128: but if we don't take g-c-c 3.6 then the keyboard layout "indicator" in GNOME Shell will be broken in yet another Ubuntu release, bug 1045914
[16:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1045914 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout doesn't show in GNOME Shell session" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045914
[16:02] <desrt> seb128: told you :)
[16:02] <jbicha> seb128: but if we don't take g-c-c 3.6 then the keyboard layout "indicator" in GNOME Shell will be broken in yet another Ubuntu release, bug 1045914
[16:02] <jbicha> and that affects more people than just those who want to use English & Chinese at the same time
[16:02] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, but better to have the keyboard indicator broken in gnome-shell than the keyboard use broken for all of Russia and China though
[16:02] <seb128> well
[16:03] <seb128> - it's only an indicator
[16:03] <jbicha> russia uses input methods? why?
[16:03] <seb128> - it's only one desktop
[16:03] <seb128> jbicha, because the use a cyrilic alphabet?
[16:03] <jbicha> it's also gdm, which makes it challenging to log in to a multinational computer
[16:04] <jbicha> I thought ibus was mostly for those languages that have far more than 30 letters in their alphabet
[16:04] <seb128> well, I'm sure we could write a shell extension that works with ibus 1.4
[16:05] <seb128> jbicha, see for example bugs like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686859
[16:05] <ubot2> Gnome bug 686859 in Indicator "Windows cant have keyboard set independently" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
[16:05] <jbicha> I much prefer g-c-c 3.6; it looks far better in GNOME than the hacked-up thing we were using in quantal
[16:05] <seb128> or https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210#c31
[16:05] <ubot2> Gnome bug 684210 in Region & Language ""Separate layout per window" is missing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[16:06] <seb128> jbicha, in which sense? the grid because of the broken icons?
[16:07] <qengho> No matter how many times I type it "raring" never looks spelled right.
[16:09] <jbicha> seb128: one reason that I think that it's important for us to make it easy for people to use the latest GNOME is that it's not really very possible to influence GNOME design if we're using something that's 2 versions out of date
[16:09] <jbicha> the mouse & universal access panels were redesigned in the new g-c-c
[16:10] <jbicha> maybe desrt's jhbuild project will help with that a bit
[16:10] <Laney> qengho: Semantic satiation. I have it with most release names ... 'precise' doesn't have any meaning for me any more
[16:10] <desrt> jbicha: imho gnomebuntu should be based on jhbuild
[16:11] <desrt> i continue to content that what you are attempting to do is impossible
[16:11] <desrt> *contend
[16:11] <jbicha> what version of gnome-user-docs do we ship if we're using mostly GNOME 3.6 except for gnome-control-center which is one of the biggest parts of the user help?
[16:11] <seb128> jbicha, well, to be fair if you want to influence the design you better follow designs in the wiki before this hit real code
[16:11] <seb128> because by time they are working code it's late to influence the design
[16:12] <qengho> Laney: not s-s. It didn't look right the first time either!
[16:12] <jbicha> desrt: I'm just trying to keep the split from getting too big
[16:13] <seb128> jbicha, so, would you be happy if we do ibus 1.4 and g-s-d/g-c-c 3.6 with the keyboard stack from 3.4?
[16:13] <Laney> qengho: dang then I don't know what's wrong with you. seek help!
[16:13] <desrt> jbicha: i'm surprised that you still think that this is possible
[16:14] <seb128> desrt, jbicha: what's the goal of gnomebuntu? having a GNOME session on top of Ubuntu following the "values" of Ubuntu (e.g stability, integration with the OS, ...) or having a crack of the day vanilla version of GNOME?
[16:14] <jbicha> seb128: it would at least be better to use 85% gnome-control-center 3.6
[16:14] <qengho> Laney: ah, now *those words* have reached semantic saturation for me.
[16:14] <jbicha> now that gnome's released g-c-c 3.6.3 that code base won't really change
[16:15] <desrt> seb128: your tone is unfair
[16:15] <jbicha> seb128: I have several goals which I should write down; one of them is that I'm tired of new GNOME contributors being told that they need to run Fedora if they want to develop GNOME
[16:15] <seb128> jbicha, ok, works for me ... I will drop an email to ubuntu-desktop about that and start tweaking the g-s-d/g-c-c stacks and drop the new ibus from the ppa
[16:16] <seb128> desrt, sorry didn't mean it to be this way :-(
[16:16] <seb128> desrt, let me rephrase
[16:16] <seb128> desrt, is the goal of the remix to have the most uptodate version or to have what we think is the most usable and tested version of GNOME
[16:16] <desrt> seb128: i could equally ask if the goal of gnomebuntu is to have a consistent experience following the upstream design and based on its values of simplicity and precision or if we will continue crackrock distro patching for the whims of canonical's crazy designers
[16:16] <seb128> desrt, I wouldn't say jhbuild is the most usable and tested one
[16:16] <jbicha> I believe running the Ubuntu development release is far safer than running rawhide and that Ubuntu can ship GNOME that's nearly equivalent with what other distros do
[16:17] <desrt> seb128: jhbuild can mean many things
[16:17] <desrt> seb128: the r-t uses jhbuild to build the stable releases as well
[16:17] <seb128> desrt, oh, come on, jhbuild is not tested and stable
[16:17] <seb128> well not as much as releases
[16:17] <desrt> seb128: i say again: jhbuild can mean many things
[16:17] <seb128> what do you mean by using jhbuild to build gnobuntu then?
[16:17] <desrt> seb128: each gnome release is made as a set of jhbuild modulesets
[16:17] <seb128> is that include getting ride of the packaging system?
[16:17] <desrt> point jhbuild at those stable modulesets and you get stable gnome
[16:18] <desrt> point it at git master and you get... well... git master
[16:18] <desrt> shouldn't be much of a surprise?
[16:18] <jbicha> I believe it's a bad idea for developers to use a different distro than the majority of users
[16:18] <seb128> well still with the fluctuation of trunk in a serie
[16:18] <desrt> jbicha: you could argue about if ubuntu users are really gnome users
[16:19] <jbicha> desrt: Ubuntu GNOME users surely are
[16:19] <seb128> desrt, well, the goal of that remix is to provide GNOME for Ubuntu users?
[16:19] <desrt> sure
[16:19] <jbicha> of course "GNOME" isn't clearly defined either
[16:19] <desrt> jbicha: it's fairly clearly defined these days
[16:19] <kenvandine> seb128, speaking of which... i am seeing GOA in unity again :)
[16:19] <kenvandine> looks like the patch for OnlyShownIn got dropped?
[16:19] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, I need to look at that, the filtering seems to be broken in the ppa
[16:19] <kenvandine> ok
[16:20] <seb128> it's on my list
[16:20] <seb128> my g-c-c doesn't fit vertically on screen
[16:20] <kenvandine> cool
[16:20] <kenvandine> i noticed it no longer matches the empathy launcher when webaccounts is focused
[16:20] <kenvandine> that is great :)
[16:21] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, that was a bug in the bamf index made by the packaging, didrocks fixed it
[16:21]  * kenvandine hugs didrocks
[16:22]  * didrocks hugs kenvandine
[16:22] <desrt> seb128: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/3.6.2/
[16:23] <desrt> seb128: this is what i would propose we use for making gnomebuntu
[16:23] <seb128> desrt, I guess I don't understand your jhbuild comment
[16:23] <desrt> seb128: jhbuild is two things, right?
[16:23] <seb128> why not just take GNOME 3.6.2 packages from Ubuntu+ppa
[16:23] <desrt> it's a program that does building
[16:23] <desrt> plus a set of modulesets
[16:24] <desrt> seb128: because it's quite a lot of effort to unpatch everything?
[16:24] <desrt> imho packages are a waste of time these days
[16:24] <seb128> well, then it's not a distro remix anymore
[16:24] <desrt> maybe it made sense when harddisks were small
[16:24] <desrt> seb128: i'd agree...
[16:25] <seb128> wrong channel to discuss it then? ;-)
[16:25] <desrt> meh
[16:25] <desrt> it goes back to the issue you were discussing
[16:25] <seb128> well, you can basically take ostree for that no?
[16:25] <desrt> i'm saying that spending our time deciding what we should do and taking gnomebuntu into consideration is probably not worthwhile
[16:25] <jbicha> desrt: is it? why are Dictionary, Epiphany, gnome-search-tool in Core?
[16:26] <desrt> jbicha: don't know/don't care?
[16:26] <desrt> jbicha: refer to my comment on large harddisks: having an app that i never used installed is not hurting me
[16:26] <jbicha> desrt: because GNOME isn't actually defined anywhere :)
[16:26] <desrt> jbicha: it's defined rather precisely right here: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/3.6.2/
[16:27] <seb128> desrt, I tend to agree with that, and I believe we will not be able to have the GNOME remix for long anyway it will come a point where GNOME will be tied enough with the init system, login manager, etc that you will need a full distro rather than a remix
[16:27] <desrt> seb128: which gets me to my other point that it's not possible to have a system that can login to both unity and gnome
[16:28] <seb128> right, GNOME is not a desktop anymore, it's an OS ... or getting there
[16:28] <desrt> which is why we see such trouble getting a good gnome experience on ubuntu and nobody else having a unity experience in the gnome-based distros at all
[16:28] <seb128> same way for Unity
[16:28] <jbicha> seb128: I didn't want to start a Remix... I still blame you for the idea
[16:28] <seb128> jbicha, lol
[16:28] <seb128> jbicha, sorry about that ;-)
[16:28] <desrt> i think everyone who is present can agree that we should blame robert_ancell
[16:29] <seb128> jbicha, I still think it has a good impact on what we deliver to users, it has been leading some unpatching or cleaner handling of upstream modes
[16:29] <seb128> desrt, yeah, I do blame Robert!
[16:29] <seb128> hum, meeting time meanwhile
[16:29] <desrt> seb128: well... this is something that we should be concerned about for its own sake
[16:29] <desrt> we should not need a remix to put pressure on us to do the right thing in the first place
[16:29] <jbicha> kenvandine: I think I fixed the goa-in-Unity problem; I just need to rebuild
[16:29] <seb128> let's resume that discussion after the meeting
[16:29] <seb128> jbicha, can you commit to the vcs? I will look at that after the meeting as well
[16:30] <seb128> the geometry is wrong there as well I think
[16:30] <seb128> the shell should be larger
[16:30] <seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, kenvandine, mlankhorst, mterry, robru, tkamppeter, attente: hey, it's meeting time
[16:30] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-11-20
[16:30] <didrocks> hey
[16:30] <Laney> wahoo
[16:30] <seb128> ^ to file if you didn't yet
[16:31] <jbicha> seb128: you just need less panels in g-c-c
[16:32] <mlankhorst> seb128: not now I' m.. qaing
[16:32] <mlankhorst> :D
[16:32] <seb128> jbicha, I think it used to be wide enough for more icons, it's 6 atm
[16:32] <mlankhorst> kidding
[16:32] <seb128> mlankhorst, :p
[16:32] <seb128> ok, let's start the meeting
[16:32] <Laney> QAing TF2?
[16:32] <chrisccoulson> w00t
[16:32] <mlankhorst> supreme commander forged alliance actually
[16:32]  * kenvandine waves
[16:32] <mlankhorst> testing the crash on nouveau that only happens after a lot of playing
[16:32] <mlankhorst> >:X
[16:32] <seb128> let's go through the team and have everybody write a small summary of what they are working on, comments, etc
[16:32] <attente> :)
[16:32] <seb128> when you are done write "..."
[16:33] <seb128> if anyone has questions do "o/"
[16:33] <seb128> then we can go through the team list and finish with a small comments/questions round from didrocks, me and other who have anything they want to mention
[16:33] <seb128>  
[16:33] <seb128> let's get started
[16:33] <seb128> (using the ping list order which is the order from the launchpad team)
[16:33] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[16:33] <Sweetshark> heya
[16:34]  * Sweetshark waves.
[16:34] <desrt> Sweetshark: updates? :)
[16:35] <Sweetshark> desrt: none. bring 4.0 packaging up to shape, filed all sync-requests needed.
[16:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, the principle is "write a short update of what you work on, comments, etc" (please guys read what I just wrote)
[16:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, ideally you come to the meeting with that prepared so we don't loose time, c.f my email from this morning
[16:36] <seb128> hum, ok, Sweetshark is not uptodate
[16:36] <seb128> Sweetshark, let's keep moving, will /query you after we are done
[16:36] <seb128> qengho, hey
[16:36] <qengho> I'm close to getting the PPA working. There's some breakage with linux-libc-dev, but nearly done.
[16:37] <qengho> I have some questions with Online Services about our contracts with google for the search page stuff.  That should be worked out soon.
[16:37] <qengho> That's all for me.
[16:37] <seb128> ok, good
[16:38] <seb128> do you have a list of the specs you are going to work on this cycle (c.f my email from this morning)
[16:38] <seb128> ?
[16:38] <qengho> All the work items in the cromium blueprint are mine. I dont' think anything else, for now.
[16:39] <seb128> ok
[16:39] <seb128> (please list the name of your blueprints in a list, e.g "desktop-r-gnome-plans-review ... ... ..."
[16:39] <desrt> (now, on the other side of the browser aisle)
[16:39] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[16:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
[16:39] <seb128> desrt, (indeed)
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> hi :)
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> i've been working on autopkgtest support for firefox, slowly getting through test failures (4 out of the 6 test suites we run are now zero failure)
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> and there was the 17.0 release too
[16:40] <qengho> desktop-r-chromiumbrowser-improvements
[16:40] <qengho> mine ^
[16:40] <seb128> qengho, thanks
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
[16:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, f17 is released?
[16:41] <seb128> when do we get it? ;-)
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128, almost ;)
[16:41] <seb128> ok
[16:41] <seb128> good work on the testing ;-)
[16:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, list of specs you work on? ;-)
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> we should probably rename that ;)
[16:43] <seb128> yeah
[16:43] <seb128> only spec? ;-)
[16:43] <seb128> ("..." when you are done)
[16:43] <seb128> ok
[16:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[16:44] <seb128> didrocks, hey
[16:44] <didrocks> hey
[16:44] <didrocks> Continued work on getting things bootstrapped and on the jenkins/launchpad/lillypilly/code-side for daily automated upload. Everything is ready right now but autopilot for unity. A first automated release of indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-sound is in progress right *now* \o/
[16:44] <didrocks> specs I work on:
[16:44] <rvr_> chrisccoulson: Web Apps doesn't work fine with F17
[16:44] <didrocks> desktop-r-2d-test-environment
[16:44] <didrocks> desktop-r-arm-reduce-footprint
[16:44] <didrocks> desktop-r-gaming-platform-unity-...
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> rvr_, it's way too late to be saying things like that now
[16:44] <didrocks> desktop-r-ps-processes
[16:44] <didrocks> desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru
[16:45] <didrocks> ..
[16:45] <seb128> \o/
[16:45] <seb128> didrocks, thanks!
[16:45] <didrocks> yw ;)
[16:45] <seb128> ^ people take example, would be good if things would go this way
[16:45] <seb128> e.g summary and blueprint names ready ;-)
[16:45] <seb128> didrocks, crossing fingers for the first indicator autolanding round, great work!
[16:45] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[16:46] <seb128> Laney, hey
[16:46] <Laney> I carried on working on gstreamer1.0 porting. I'd appreciate it if a few could run ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gstreamer1.0 to see if anything breaks. For example I'm suspicious that I didn't see any fallout from mixed 0.10/1.0 stacks yet.
[16:46] <Laney> Stole some patches from upstream bugtrackers (e.g. rhythmbox/shotwell/banshee) so they are up there too for your music playing needs.
[16:46] <kenvandine> Laney, cool!
[16:46] <Laney> I hope to start uploading stuff soon - maybe next week?
[16:46] <seb128> Laney, there is a banshee gst1 port?
[16:46] <Laney> yeah
[16:47] <seb128> Laney, did you have time to do the gst/webkit cross use list?
[16:47] <Laney> Oh, almost forgot. I wrote that script.
[16:47] <Laney> Yeah! Here's the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1372771/
[16:47] <seb128> oh, good, a small list
[16:47] <seb128> like it!
[16:47] <Laney> it's gst0.10/gst1.0 - thought that would be more useful than gst/webkit
[16:47] <Laney> and it takes into account the PPA
[16:47] <Laney> so it's "assume I uploaded the PPA to the archive right now"
[16:48] <seb128> Laney, is rb trunk still using libgnome-media-profile btw? I asked Bastien about it and he said gst1.0 has an api for that and that sound-juicer is already ported and rb should do the same if not doneyet
[16:48] <Laney> not sure, I will check
[16:48] <Laney> I put a link to the code for that script on the pad (which I am determined to get people using :P)
[16:48] <seb128> ;-)
[16:49] <seb128> ok, great, I will update to the ppa, would be nice to have that uploaded next week
[16:49] <Laney> specs: desktop-r-gstreamer desktop-q-deprecate-language-selector desktop-r-reduce-patch-burden
[16:49] <Laney> ...
[16:49] <seb128> did you notice any regression or anything not working with that stack?
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
[16:49] <seb128> I should ping again the guys who deal with the fluendo codecs...
[16:49] <Laney> not really yet no, I've just been using them "as normal"
[16:50] <seb128> Laney, thanks, let's see what we do with the language-selector/region capplet, it's linked to the ibus issues
[16:50] <Laney> didn't deliberately try any weird files yet for example
[16:50] <seb128> ok
[16:50] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[16:50] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[16:50] <kenvandine> hey
[16:50] <kenvandine> continued work on moving packaging to trunk for webapps/webaccounts packages for desktop-r-ps-processes
[16:50] <kenvandine> i have some updates for webapps coming this week
[16:51] <kenvandine> all bug fixes that will all get SRUs too
[16:51] <kenvandine> done
[16:51] <seb128> thanks
[16:51] <seb128> kenvandine, chrisccoulson: do you know what's the status of the firefox webapp extension segfaulting f17? with f17 getting closed I'm concerned it's still not fixed
[16:52] <seb128> e.g I still have the launcher icons staying in my launcher when closing sites and segfaulting firefox when used in raring
[16:52] <kenvandine> rvr_, ^^
[16:52] <seb128> kenvandine, specs you work on this cycle otherwise?
[16:53] <seb128> (let's go back to the firefox issue after the meeting)
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm pretty sure that's not specific to 17. there are traces from 16.0 that look like they might be caused by the same issue
[16:53] <kenvandine> desktop-r-reduced-power-ram and desktop-r-hybrid-graphics-user-experience
[16:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it started with f17 for me, maybe I got unlucky or maybe something makes the issue more likely to be hit? anyway we should get it fixed...
[16:53] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:53] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[16:54] <mlankhorst> heya
[16:54] <mlankhorst> dont have spec links atm
[16:54] <mlankhorst> but getting backport stack ready for precise
[16:54] <rvr_> I have an issue specific to Firefox 17 with Web Apps, that Maxim says it's a bug (pagehide not being emited), bug #1076350
[16:54] <mlankhorst> and getting some nouveau patches in for mesa 9.0.2 hopefully
[16:55] <mlankhorst> since mesa doesn't have a nouveau stable maintainer I guess I now became it :s
[16:55] <seb128> congrats? ;-)
[16:55] <seb128> how is the precise backporting going?
[16:55] <mlankhorst> ready soon
[16:55] <seb128> do you need testers?
[16:55] <mlankhorst> need tjaalton to upload x11proto, then the whole renamed stuff could be done
[16:56] <mlankhorst> I might need a sru to mesa stable, to make sure the unrenamed -dev packages work with the renamed stack.
[16:56] <seb128> ok
[16:56] <mlankhorst> else it's quite easy to uninstall by accident
[16:56] <seb128> let us know when you think you are in a state where you need extra testers
[16:56] <Laney> mmm I forgot about the packageset extension - can you send a complete list to devel-permissions please?
[16:56] <mlankhorst> also working some on wine, upstreaming patches there, average of 1 patch every week or 2
[16:56] <Laney> wildcards don't really work
[16:57] <mlankhorst> Laney: I can't upload to precise either, there's no xorg package set there :/
[16:57] <seb128> ok
[16:57] <mlankhorst> or quantal for that matter
[16:57] <Laney> easily fixed
[16:57] <mlankhorst> Laney: package set is whatever is at https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ppa currently
[16:57] <Laney> that's not a list send to devel-permissions :-)
[16:58] <Laney> (but let's move on)
[16:58] <mlankhorst> ok!
[16:58] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[16:58] <mlankhorst> some linux upstreaming as well btw
[16:58] <mlankhorst> and I have revived my vdpau project for fun
[16:58] <mlankhorst> even have visuals!
[16:58] <seb128> keeping really busy ;-)
[16:58] <mlankhorst> a little
[16:58] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks for the summary
[16:58] <mlankhorst> np
[16:59] <seb128> moving to the next one
[16:59] <seb128> cyphermox, hey
[16:59] <cyphermox> yo!
[16:59] <cyphermox> so I've been working on importing the packaging into upstream branches for the indicator stack, that's still in progress
[16:59] <cyphermox> Uploaded a new NM, but it FTBFS in armhf due to some timeouts being too agrressive, I'll fix that today
[17:00] <cyphermox> (then I'll upload nm-applet and a few other goodies)
[17:00] <cyphermox> blueprints:
[17:00] <cyphermox> hardware-r-kernel-delta-review: got the one ipv6 use_tempaddr patch to review / desktop-r-gnome-fallback: keyboard indicator... / desktop-r-ps-processes: indicator stack / desktop-r-connectivity-checking / desktop-r-proxy-support / desktop-r-arm-input-sensor-drivers / foundations-r-networking
[17:00] <seb128> lot of blueprints
[17:00] <cyphermox> usually one small thing only though :)
[17:00] <seb128> cyphermox, the keyboard indicator might be work for next cycle, it seems like we might stay on the pre-ibus g-s-d keyboard stack
[17:00] <cyphermox> oh, kyeboard is obvisouly kinda blocked yeah
[17:01] <cyphermox> sure.
[17:01] <seb128> cyphermox, don't forget to land evolution-indicator back ;-)
[17:01] <cyphermox> I'm waiting for a design from mpt about this anyway
[17:01] <cyphermox> yeah, this will happen this week, just waiting a few more days to merge a branch
[17:01] <seb128> cool
[17:01] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks
[17:01] <cyphermox> there is actually a evolution-indicator in NEW
[17:01] <seb128> oh, nice
[17:01] <seb128> from you?
[17:02]  * mpt hasn't forgotten
[17:02]  * kenvandine hugs cyphermox
[17:02] <seb128> mpt, hey ;-)
[17:02] <cyphermox> err, yeah, unless it's been nakéd
[17:02] <cyphermox> *nak'ed
[17:02] <kenvandine> i've missed evolution-indicator
[17:02] <seb128> cyphermox, just asking, I didn't check ;-)
[17:02] <cyphermox> me too ;)
[17:02] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks
[17:02] <seb128> let's keep moving
[17:02] <seb128> mterry, hey
[17:02] <mterry> I've been working on unity component build modernization, splitting out the Appearance panel, and have started looking into writing a library to let contained apps prompt the user for access to a file outside the container (early design thoughts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/Containment ).
[17:02] <mterry> For specs, I'm overlooking:
[17:02] <mterry> desktop-r-unity-greeter
[17:02] <mterry> desktop-r-update-manager
[17:02] <mterry> (though both are relatively low priority compared to the other work I'm doing from blueprints I don't own)
[17:02] <mterry> EOL
[17:03] <seb128> mterry, thanks!
[17:03] <seb128> (another efficient summary ;-)
[17:03] <seb128> no comment from me, thanks for the g-c-c appareance panel ;-)
[17:03] <seb128> next
[17:03] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[17:03] <mterry> thoughts are welcome on containment
[17:04] <seb128> mterry, I've opened a tab on the wiki, will read it later and comment ;-)
[17:04] <seb128> no tkamppeter?
[17:04] <seb128> attente, hey
[17:05] <attente> hi
[17:05] <attente> i still haven't finished the menu module
[17:05] <attente> what's still missing:
[17:05] <attente> doesn't work at all for apps using GtkUIManager for menu construction
[17:05] <attente> doesn't work with GtkTearoffMenuItems properly
[17:05] <attente> currently working on making the action group work properly
[17:06] <attente> desktop-r-reduce-patch-burden
[17:06] <seb128> ok
[17:07] <seb128> keep the good work on the menu stuff and don't worry about it taking time it was expected, it's quite some work
[17:07] <attente> thanks seb128
[17:07] <attente> oh right
[17:07] <attente> ...
[17:07] <seb128> I still need to find you some bugs as well in case you get sick of doing menus only ;-)
[17:07] <seb128> thanks attente
[17:07] <attente> i tried to look at some but didn't have much luck reproducing
[17:08] <seb128> did I forgot anyone?
[17:08] <seb128> so me: keep Debian merges and some desktop updates, looked at the new ibus and g-s-d/g-c-c stack for some days, it's a bit tricky (cf discussion on the channel earlier), I will follow up on the list after the meeting, blueprint reviews
[17:09] <seb128> specs: desktop-r-gnome-fallback desktop-r-gnome-plans-review desktop-r-reduced-power-ram desktop-r-ubuntu-system-services
[17:10] <seb128> I plan to land the g-s-d/g-c-c 3.6 stack this week, help a bit on gst1.0 if needed and then switch to ram/performances work
[17:10] <seb128> ...
[17:11] <seb128> that's it from me
[17:11] <seb128> reminder: check that your blueprint show on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-desktop-team.html
[17:11] <seb128> didrocks, did you have any extra comment/status update from the ps integration team side?
[17:11] <didrocks> sure, just one thing
[17:11] <didrocks> So, as you saw, we are really closed to have autolanding ready now (working on a funny thing with jenkins right now, last gate before activating those for the 3 projects I mentionned).
[17:11] <didrocks> mterry did the whole unity stack and it's ready! \o/
[17:11] <didrocks> cyphermox, ken, robru: how close are we to have all the other stacks bootstrapped and prepared? I wish we can have the whole indicator and webcred stacks automated this week.
[17:12] <cyphermox> didrocks: mine i'd say is about 60%, but i should be done by the end of the week yes
[17:13] <Laney> will you be autolanding into a ppa first or is 'ready' ready for the archive?
[17:13] <didrocks> cyphermox: ok, please keep me posted. I can review/approve the branch in my morning :)
[17:13] <didrocks> Laney: archive
[17:13] <Laney> :O
[17:13] <didrocks> Laney: it's already in a ppa
[17:13] <cyphermox> didrocks: indicator-sync, indicator-printers and ido have merge requests pendingb
[17:14] <didrocks> cyphermox: from today I guess? (I'm in a hangout for quite some time, didn't look yet ;))
[17:14] <didrocks> awesome news :-)
[17:14] <cyphermox> kenvandine: I noticed telepathy indicator is under your name, would it make sense to move it to ~indicator-applet-developers too?
[17:15] <kenvandine> it isn't an indicator itself
[17:15] <cyphermox> didrocks: yeah did those earlier, I had some issues with indicator-printers
[17:15] <kenvandine> it's a service that runs that uses the indicator
[17:15] <didrocks> cyphermox: excellent, I'll review them probably tomorrow morning :)
[17:15] <cyphermox> kenvandine: right, but should we keep it too with autolanding, given that it's in the /ubuntu-menu-bar project ? :)
[17:15] <kenvandine> i don't mind :)
[17:16] <didrocks> kenvandine: if you can concentrate on the webcred stack, that would be awesome as it's the one we can ship :)
[17:16] <kenvandine> indeed
[17:16] <cyphermox> yeah I'll take care of telepathy-indicator myself at the end or something
[17:17] <kenvandine> cyphermox, thanks
[17:17] <didrocks> thanks cyphermox, kenvandine :)
[17:17] <didrocks> ..
[17:17] <seb128> didrocks, kenvandine, cyphermox: thanks
[17:17] <Sweetshark> seb128: update waiting in my vim buffer, should i quickly dump it here?
[17:17] <seb128> Sweetshark, yes please
[17:18] <Sweetshark> seb128: here comes my update
[17:18] <Sweetshark> desktop-r-libreoffice-packaging:
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- upstreamed of unity menus patch: completed
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- upstreamed of session installer patch: completed
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- removal of old lo-menubar implementation upstream: completed
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- collected all needed dep updates and syncs: completed
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- fix get-orig-source: inprogress https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/1088/
[17:18] <Sweetshark> desktop-r-improve-print-dialogs
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- checked for using the native gtk dialog: completed -- not there yet, see: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-td4018786.html
[17:18] <Sweetshark> upstream marketing woes (happening RIGHT NOW at the beginning of the call):
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Freiburg-wechselt-zurueck-zu-MS-Office-1753751.html city of freiburg decides to go back to MSO, but the fight is not over yet
[17:18] <Sweetshark> -- last item (and the fact that I am in a advisory board call right now) is the reason for me being somewhat distracted.
[17:19] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, thanks for the update, good luck for your board call
[17:19] <seb128>  
[17:19] <seb128> that's it from me? anyone having another comment?
[17:22]  * mterry goes and eats leftover pad thai
[17:24] <robru> good morning all ;-)
[17:25] <tkamppeter> seb128, still there?
[17:25] <kenvandine> robru, tkamppeter: you guys missed the meeting :)
[17:25] <Chucrute301> Hi guys
[17:25] <robru> funny, tkamppeter and I are the only ones who added items to the wiki ;-)
[17:26] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey, yes
[17:26] <Chucrute301> What is better guys, BK or MC ?
[17:26] <seb128> robru, hey ... you missed the meeting!
[17:26] <robru> seb128, sorry.
[17:26] <desrt> Chucrute301: burger king or mcdonalds?  i'd avoid both...
[17:27] <tkamppeter> seb128, You asked me for something.
[17:27] <seb128> robru, no worry but try to be there next week ... did you have anything you wanted to discuss or mention?
[17:27] <seb128> tkamppeter, we were having the team meeting and going through the team for summary of what everyone is doing, it was your turn
[17:27] <robru> seb128, not really... package inlining work is ongoing. there were a few hiccups with friends-service development last week that required attention and distracted me from the packaging stuff though.
[17:27] <robru> seb128, but this week is looking good for packaging.
[17:28] <seb128> robru, ok, good
[17:28] <tkamppeter> seb128, sorry, the whole last cycle there was no meeting.
[17:28] <seb128> tkamppeter, yeah, and we discussed that at UDS and decided to restore those, cf my email reminders from last week and this week
[17:29] <tkamppeter> seb128, and on the wiki page there was, as ususal, nothing filled in in the agenda section. So I have simply made my news entries.
[17:29] <mpt> mterry, I tried to review <https://code.launchpad.net/~evfool/update-manager/lp1081099/+merge/135167> but I think Ubuntu is ignoring the .ui file from the branch and using the OS one.
[17:30] <seb128> tkamppeter, ok, well in addition of the wiki we do a quick IRC round of summaries so everybody is online at the same time and we can do comments, etc
[17:30] <seb128> tkamppeter, try to be there for the meeting next week please
[17:30] <mterry> mpt, oh, I think you have to pass --datadir=./data or something to use the local ones
[17:30] <tkamppeter> seb128, I was mostly working on color-management-related stuff for printing.
[17:30] <seb128> mpt, sudo cp data/gtkbuilder/UpdateManager.ui /usr/share/update-manager/gtkbuilder/UpdateManager.ui
[17:31] <seb128> otherwise
[17:31] <seb128> tkamppeter, ok
[17:31] <tkamppeter> seb128, sorry, I will be there from next week on.
[17:31] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[17:31] <robru> seb128, what time does the meeting officially start?
[17:31] <mpt> seb128, ah, right, sorry, I didn't think I'd ever need that trick again so I didn't copy it down last time you told me. :-)
[17:31] <seb128> robru, 16:30utc
[17:32] <robru> seb128, thx
[17:32] <seb128> mpt, well, it's basically "dpkg -S <filename.ui>" and sudo cp the local version over the system one
[17:35] <didrocks> Laney: I saw that you had an password issue with [10:46] <Laney> Please set a password for your new keyring:
[17:35] <didrocks> in a lxc container
[17:35] <didrocks> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/22/%23ubuntu-motu.txt
[17:35] <Laney> yes
[17:36] <didrocks> did you find any workaround to not have to set this one?
[17:36] <Laney> no I didn't yet, and it's very annoying
[17:36] <didrocks> We have the issue with bzr lp-propose on a server
[17:36] <Laney> you can set credentials_file when you login
[17:36] <Laney> then you dont need a password at all
[17:36] <didrocks> yeah, meaning changing bzr in this case
[17:36] <Laney> dunno how you do that in bzr though ...
[17:37] <didrocks> weird that other bzr operation are not affected
[17:37] <didrocks> like bzr push/pull/branch
[17:37] <Laney> they probably don't need to use the LP API, at least not as your user
[17:38] <Laney> lp-propose does though
[17:38] <didrocks> yeah, probably
[17:39] <Laney> geser was affected by that bug too btw
[17:39] <didrocks> I wonder why bzr launchpad-login <foo> doesn't use it
[18:13]  * didrocks waves good evening
[20:01] <robru> am I the only one currently unable to push to launchpad?
[20:01] <robru> actually I can't branch either... it was working up until about half an hour ago...
[20:03] <sarnold> robru: others have complained, it's under investigation
[20:42] <TheMuso> seb128: when you get a minute, could you please accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures as a goal for raring?
[20:42] <TheMuso> Its been approved and proposed for raring as a goal.
[21:00] <TheMuso> ...or is anybody else able to approve raring as a goal for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures?
[21:04] <TheMuso> Its been approved and proposed for raring as a goal.
[21:04] <TheMuso> seb128: when you get a minute, could you please accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures as a goal for raring?
[21:06] <seb128> TheMuso, hey, ok, done
[21:06] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[21:06] <seb128> yw
[21:08] <jbicha> desrt: how is your jhbuild magic coming along?
[21:43] <desrt> does anyone know what this make-dsfg thing is all about?
[21:43] <desrt> Laney: ?
[21:43] <desrt> *dfsg
[21:44] <kenvandine> debian free software guidelines
[21:44] <kenvandine> desrt, i think
[21:44] <desrt> yes.  i know that
[21:44] <kenvandine> not sure what make-fsfg is though
[21:44] <kenvandine> :)
[21:44] <kenvandine> dfsg
[21:44] <desrt> i'm assuming it's because debian has some trouble with the licence of the upstream version and had to do something about that
[21:44] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:44]  * desrt is just wondering what the issue is
[21:47] <robert_ancell> mfisch,
[21:48] <robert_ancell> mfisch, did you write the patch in bug 978428
[21:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 978428 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter default selected session icon (ubuntu) does not reflect the default that is in lightdm" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978428
[21:48] <mfisch> robert_ancell: looking
[21:49] <Sarvatt> desrt: source package copyright says the docs were just removed in it because of licensing issues, http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#Licenses_that_are_DFSG-incompatible
[21:50] <desrt> ah.  GFDL invariant woes?
[21:50] <Sarvatt> yep
[21:50] <desrt> lame :)
[21:51] <Chucrute301> Desrt
[21:52] <Chucrute301> You really dont eat BK?
[21:52] <desrt> Chucrute301: i'm a harvey's man
[21:52] <mfisch> robert_ancell: my answer is "maybe", still looking
[21:52] <mfisch> robert_ancell: I think I sent some code to mterry, but I can't find it right now
[21:53] <robert_ancell> mfisch, oh I found it on trunk. It's attributed to mterry so i'll assume he wrote it
[21:53] <robert_ancell> I'm applying all the u-g patches to the 0.2 branch so we can drop all the patches from the package
[21:53] <mterry> robert_ancell, I think maybe I adapted a patch?
[21:53] <mfisch> robert_ancell: I kno we discussed it
[21:54] <Chucrute301> Where is cimi?
[21:54] <desrt> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/make-dfsg/+bug/1081328
[21:54] <desrt> Chucrute301: either somewhere in london or italy, i'd imagine
[21:58] <robert_ancell> mterry, debian/patches/fix-focus.patch is yours right?
[21:59] <mterry> robert_ancell, yeah I believe
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
[22:28] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi Robert, wondering if you have a comment on the idea in the MP for a solution of bug #952185.
[22:28] <robert_ancell> bug 952185
[22:29] <robert_ancell> hmm, where is the bugbot?
[22:29] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Launchpad seems to be sleeping. :(
[22:29] <robert_ancell> oh, that nasty one :)
[22:31] <robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yes, that sounds like the only appropriate solution (other than putting the environment in a system location)
[22:32] <robert_ancell> bug 952185
[22:32] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Yeah, I noticed that gdm suffers from the same problem, so fixing both in pam feels right. Do you possibly have time to sponsor it?
[22:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 952185 in pam (Ubuntu) "~/.pam_environment not parsed when HOME is encrypted" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952185
[22:33] <robert_ancell> ubot2, been slacking off?
[22:33] <ubot2> robert_ancell: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[22:33] <jbicha> ubot2: don't worry, we don't think that :)
[22:33] <ubot2> jbicha: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[22:33] <GunnarHj> :)
[22:33] <robert_ancell> GunnarHj, It really needs a review by cjwatson or slangesek - they're in #ubuntu-deve
[22:33] <robert_ancell> l
[22:34] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok, then I'll ask one of them. Thanks!
[22:52] <robert_ancell> jbicha, are you ok with gnome 3.8 packages going into the PPA?
[22:52] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I think we should have a separate experimental ppa
[22:53] <robert_ancell> jbicha, ok
[22:54] <jbicha> I get a bit nervous trying to backport a newer GNOME stack to an older Ubuntu release, even though I guess ricotz has been doing it for a while
[22:55] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I mean 3.8 into raring
[22:55] <jbicha> same thing
[22:56] <jbicha> also I think we'd have a better chance of getting permission from the Release Team to ship a PPA if that PPA has a history of being "safe"
[23:04] <maxiaojun> hi
[23:06] <maxiaojun> i'm thinking of recording a video to show why ibus indicator need some new design
[23:09] <maxiaojun> i'm on nokia n9 now
[23:14] <maxiaojun> jbicha arounx?
[23:15] <maxiaojun> around?
[23:15] <jbicha> maxiaojun: sure, what's up?
[23:16] <maxiaojun> do you need a video for ibus indicator concern i have
[23:17] <jbicha> a bug report would probably be sufficient, but no one's stopping you from making a video if you want ;)
[23:18] <maxiaojun> bug report probably existed for long
[23:37] <RAOF> Hello everyone! This is your weekly opportunity to tell me what SRUs you've got in the Precise and Quantal queues are urgent, so I process them first!
[23:44] <mfisch> robert_ancell: a quick analysis shows that disabling the mem lock doesn't do anything, and it's only using 193k of memory either way
[23:44] <mfisch> robert_ancell: not sure where the notes from that BP I saw came from that claimed otherwise
[23:50]  * mfisch realizes that robert_ancell is off having whatever foods people eat down there for lunch
[23:51] <desrt> mfisch: kangaroo tails and kiwis (not the fruit)
[23:51] <mfisch> I wasn't even sure they had roos in .nz
[23:51] <mfisch> maybe lamb in kiwi fruit sauce?
[23:52] <desrt> mfisch: they're imported
[23:52] <mfisch> desrt: good point, they do have boats
[23:53] <mfisch> desrt: hey, do you have a good doc or example package that does a gconf2 default for a setting?  I only found some sparse documentation today
[23:54]  * desrt doesn't know a lot about gconf
[23:56] <jbicha> mfisch: maybe man dh_gconf will help you?
[23:56] <robert_ancell> mfisch, ok perhaps they were just blaming me because I wasn't there
[23:56]  * robert_ancell looks sideways at desrt
[23:57] <desrt> robert_ancell: can you help me with making a gdm greeter?
[23:57] <mfisch> jbicha: strangely, that's exactly what I needed
[23:57] <robert_ancell> desrt, sure
[23:57] <desrt> okay.  but after i get back from dinner
[23:57] <desrt> yum.  kiwi eggs.