2010/09/03/#ubuntu-manual.txt

=== Omega is now known as |Omega|
=== |Omega| is now known as LeonhardEuler
=== LeonhardEuler is now known as KarlMarx
=== KarlMarx is now known as Omega
[07:31] <nisshh> godbyk: ping
[07:32] <godbyk> nigelb: pong
[07:32] <nisshh> ???
[07:32] <godbyk> nisshh: err.. pong
[07:32] <godbyk> nigelb: sorry. IGNORE ME!  :)
[07:32] <nisshh> lol
[07:32]  * godbyk damns xchat's nick-completion.
[07:33] <nisshh> haha
[07:33] <godbyk> Usually 'ni' is enough to get 'nisshh', but not today. :)
[07:33] <nisshh> godbyk: i just noticed that the multicol command, when used, has a fixed verticle height
[07:33] <nisshh> hehe
[07:34] <nisshh> is there a way of changing it?
[07:35] <godbyk> It's not a fixed vertical height -- it just balances the columns so they're all the same height (or as close as is possible).
[07:35] <nisshh> ah
[07:35] <nisshh> that is seriously annoying
[07:35] <nisshh> godbyk: is there a way of making it not do that?
[07:37] <godbyk> Can you show me the output you have currently and explain what you'd like to see instead?
[07:37] <godbyk> There are parameters you can adjust, but it depends on what you want.
[07:37] <nisshh> ah
[07:37] <nisshh> ok
[07:37] <nisshh> screenshot?
[07:37] <godbyk> that'll work
[07:38] <nisshh> ok one sec
[07:40] <nisshh> godbyk: http://imagebin.org/112490
[07:41] <nisshh> each column carries over to the next, which is not what i want
[07:41] <nisshh> because of the "keep them the same height" rule
[07:44] <godbyk> nisshh: Ah, I see what you're trying to do.
[07:44] <godbyk> Okay, multicols probably isn't the best way to accomplish what you want, but I think it can be made to work.
[07:44] <nisshh> right
[07:44] <godbyk> first, use \begin{multicols*} instead of \begin{multicols}.
[07:44] <godbyk> that'll tell it not to balance the columns.
[07:44] <nisshh> ok
[07:45] <godbyk> Next, use \columnbreak to start a new column.
[07:45] <godbyk> See if that gives you the desired result.
[07:45] <godbyk> If not, there are a couple other parameters we can toy with.
[07:46] <nisshh> ok
[07:46] <nisshh> godbyk: do i use \end{multicols*} as well?
[07:46] <godbyk> yep
[07:46] <godbyk> \begin and \end must always match.
[07:46] <godbyk> Otherwise LaTeX will freak out on ya.
[07:46] <nisshh> sure
[07:51] <nisshh> godbyk: ok, that works pretty well, but now the code underneath the headings gets indented
[07:52] <godbyk> The code underneath the headings?
[07:52] <nisshh> like
[07:52] <nisshh> Addition:
[07:52] <nisshh> then
[07:53] <nisshh>       code here
[07:53] <godbyk> Ah.
[07:53] <godbyk> Do have a blank line between "Addition:" and \begin{terminal}?
[07:53] <nisshh> no
[07:54] <godbyk> is it only the first line that is indented?
[07:55] <nisshh> no
[07:55] <nisshh> whole lot
[07:55] <nisshh> hang on, ill get another screenie
[07:55] <godbyk> 'kay.
[07:57] <nisshh> godbyk: http://imagebin.org/112491
[07:58] <godbyk> Okay, so the code below Addition *isn't* indented, but all th other code is.
[07:58] <nisshh> yea
[07:58] <godbyk> In the source code, is there any blank lines between Subtraction: and the \begin{terminal} lines?
[07:58] <nisshh> no
[07:59] <godbyk> interesting
[07:59] <nisshh> the whole lot is there with no blank lines
[07:59] <godbyk> try putting \noindent directly in front of the \begin{terminal} lines.  see what effect that has (if any).
[08:00] <nisshh> in front of?
[08:00] <nisshh> you mean before or after?
[08:00] <godbyk> before.
[08:00] <nisshh> ok
[08:00] <godbyk> Like: \noindent\begin{terminal}
[08:01] <nisshh> ah ok
[08:01] <godbyk> did that do anything?
[08:03] <nisshh> hang on
[08:03] <nisshh> godbyk: my computer is slow, takes a good 30-40 seconds to compile the manual
[08:03] <godbyk> np
[08:04] <nisshh> the noindent command does nothing
[08:05] <nisshh> godbyk: ^^^
[08:06] <godbyk> okay
[08:06] <godbyk> can you send me your .tex file? (Or point me to the repository?)
[08:07] <godbyk> I'll take a look at it and try a few things.
[08:07] <nisshh> ok, one sec ill push
[08:07] <nisshh> right
[08:07] <godbyk> If you're going to be using examples like this often, it might be good to have an examples environment (like \begin{examples}..)
[08:08] <nisshh> godbyk: yea, that would be good
[08:09] <nisshh> godbyk: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual/trunk
[08:09] <nisshh> its all in there
[08:10] <nisshh> the file with the code we were just working on is, python-crash-course/python-crash-course.tex
[08:14] <godbyk> nisshh: Okay. Let me take a look.
[08:15] <godbyk> nisshh: How's the manual coming along otherwise?
[08:16] <nisshh> godbyk: not too bad, me and Rick are in the process of shortening this chapter, other than that i have to catch up with jenkins and the other authors and see where they are at
[08:16] <nisshh> godbyk: i dont think we will get a maverick release out though, if we do, it will be so so close
[08:17] <godbyk> right.
[08:18] <godbyk> at this point, I'm wondering if the getting started guide will be released at the same time as maverick. :-)
[08:18] <godbyk> I haven't seen much activity in bzr yet.
[08:18] <nisshh> yea
[08:18] <nisshh> godbyk: iv fixed all the outstanding bugs for maverick
[08:19] <nisshh> sometime im going to go through and update some of the sections
[08:19] <nisshh> someone has to do it soon right?
[08:19] <nisshh> otherwise there is no hope with bens crazy schedule
[08:22] <godbyk> definitely soon, I hope.
[08:22] <godbyk> I know.
[08:22] <godbyk> Okay, to fix your problem, put blank lines around the \columnbreak command.
[08:22] <nisshh> ok
[08:23] <godbyk> So it should be like:
[08:23] <godbyk> \end{terminal}
[08:23] <godbyk>   
[08:23] <godbyk> \columnbreak
[08:23] <godbyk>   
[08:23] <nisshh> yep
[08:23] <godbyk> Next heading:
[08:23] <godbyk> \begin{terminal}
[08:23] <godbyk> ...
[08:24] <nisshh> yea
[08:25] <godbyk> did that work?
[08:26] <nisshh> godbyk: yep, did the trick
[08:26] <godbyk> cool
[08:28] <nisshh> godbyk: there are craploads of examples in that chapter alone, what were you saying about having its own environment?
[08:51] <godbyk> nisshh: Well, if you're having to use some commands over and over again, it's handy to bundle them together with a new command.
[08:52] <nisshh> godbyk: yea
[09:56] <nisshh> jenkins: hey
[09:58] <jenkins> hey nisshh
[09:59] <nisshh> jenkins: would you be interested in giving a session at Ubuntu App Dev Week?
[09:59] <nisshh> jenkins: i just added myself and then i thought of quickshot :)
[10:00] <nisshh> you could do a showcase on quickshot
[10:00] <jenkins> I don't think I have time atm I am afraid, I am usually at work in the day and I am unsure I have the knowledge
[10:00] <jenkins> when is it?
[10:00] <nisshh> end of this month
[10:01] <jenkins> hmm, thanks for the thought but I don't think i can commit at the moment
[10:01] <nisshh> sessions are between 1500 and 1900 UTC
[10:01] <nisshh> hmm, thats too bad
[10:01] <jenkins> I will keep it in mind
[10:02] <nisshh> jenkins: cool
[10:02] <jenkins> it just I have a commute every day and I get very worn out with work :(
[10:03] <nisshh> fair enough
[10:03] <nisshh> let me know if you change your mind
[10:03] <jenkins> will do
[10:03] <nisshh> :)
[10:09] <jenkins> quickshot is on revison 300
[10:10] <nisshh> nice
[15:23] <flan> nisshh, can you link to this App Dev Week thing?
[15:23] <flan> I'm not sure I'm willing to participate, but it sounds interesting, from its title.
[15:29] <nisshh> flan: hang on a sec
[15:31] <nisshh> flan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek there
[15:34] <flan> How do you plan to present Pytask?
[15:35] <nisshh> flan: well, Pytask is my app that i developed, so i plan to show how i found quickly and quickly-widgets and how Pytask uses all these API's and such and just how easy it was to put together
[15:36]  * flan dislikes Quickly.
[15:36] <nisshh> so sort of, here is my app, here is what i used, any questions?
[15:36] <nisshh> that kind of thing
[15:36] <flan> I kinda doubt Quickshot would work well for a crash-course-style introduction. Explaining the Pylons model would take quite a while. :(
[15:36] <nisshh> flan: its still pretty new, but extremely easy to use
[15:37] <flan> I mean I dislike it because I'm a control-freak.
[15:37] <nisshh> ah ok
[15:37] <flan> I admire what it's trying to do, in the same way that I admire Ubuntu for the role it plays in introducing people to a stable, friendly Linux-based environment.
[15:37] <flan> -comma
[15:38] <nisshh> yea
[15:38] <flan> I'll always go back to doing things with Debian and tools I've picked myself in the end, however.
[15:38] <nisshh> flan: yea, i mainly use quickly because it makes it easy to release and package stuff
[15:39] <nisshh> other than that, it holds my app together, and for that its great
[15:39]  * flan feels that things like Quickly and IDEs form bad habits and introduce crutches that'll ultimately hold some people back.
[15:39] <nisshh> flan: i use vim, not an IDE :)
[15:39] <flan> Not all people, of course. Some wouldn't get very far without such things.
[15:39] <nisshh> i hate IDE's
[15:40] <nisshh> true
[15:40] <flan> I've found myself using gedit more and more.
[15:40] <nisshh> yea
[15:40] <flan> I used to use Bluefish almost exclusively.
[15:40] <nisshh> gedit is great
[15:40] <flan> I'm a nono person, though.
[15:40] <nisshh> nano?
[15:40] <flan> I'm comfortable with vi/vim, but switching between the two modes still just doesn't feel natural to me.
[15:40] <flan> Yes, nano.
[15:41] <nisshh> flan: once you use it for long enough and watch a pro vim user use it, you will never want to use another editor ever again
[15:41] <flan> If vi had a hold-ctrl-to-temporarily-engage-command-mode, with interactive mode being the default at all other times, I'd probably use it more.
[15:41] <flan> Oh, I know how powerful it can be.
[15:41] <nisshh> yea
[15:41] <flan> It's just not compatible with the way I think.
[15:42] <nisshh> i dont like emacs or nano very much
[15:42] <nisshh> exactly
[16:19] <daker> godbyk, ping
[16:54] <flan> nisshh, do you see any value in, perhaps, having me prepare a session related to Quickshot (or something else I've built) over polishing it for release alongside the manual?
[16:58] <flan> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs201.ash2/46435_978696008291_10004301_54742894_4873761_n.jpg
[16:59] <nisshh> flan: yea, if it has anything to do with app development, or is an app like Pytask or quickshot, go for it
[17:00] <flan> I meant, like, would it benefit others more than the cost to the project itself.
[17:00] <nisshh> flan: although, im not going to present the session for you, you will have to do that
[17:00] <flan> Aww... =P
[17:00] <flan> Yeah, I know.
[17:00] <nisshh> hehe
[17:00] <nisshh> cost to the project itself?
[17:00] <flan> I'm just not sure I can present effectively in a group setting.
[17:01] <flan> Less time to document, refine, and polish it for release alongside the manual.
[17:01] <nisshh> flan: your presenting to a bunch of dev noobs, they wont criticize you :)
[17:02] <nisshh> flan: its a one hour session thats happening in just under 3 weeks, and it only happens once each cycle
[17:02] <nisshh> its not going to cost the project mucyh time
[17:02] <nisshh> shoudnt take you long to figure out the session content
[17:02] <flan> I'd probably need jenkins with me... I have a tendency to be condescending, even though I don't often mean to act that way. :(
[17:02] <nisshh> hehe
[17:03] <nisshh> jenkins said he will be too busy
[17:03] <nisshh> flan: if you prepare the session, id be happy to co-lead it with you
[17:03] <nisshh> i just dont want to present it FOR you
[17:06] <flan> jenkins seemed to imply he wouldn't be able to prepare for it.
[17:06] <flan> I'll speak with him.
[17:06] <flan> I don't mind putting together materials and a plan.
[17:07] <flan> I'm just not sure I can lead a discussion if nobody's asking questions.
[17:08] <nisshh> flan: bah!, youll be fine! :)
[17:08] <nisshh> flan: its not a discussion, you teach them, and they ask questions if they want
[17:08] <flan> That's what I'm afraid of. =P
[17:08] <nisshh> why?
[17:09] <flan> I'll look into tentatively taking one of the Friday slots.
[17:09] <nisshh> fair enough
[17:09] <flan> I work best when people are engaging me.
[17:09] <nisshh> ah, ok
[17:09] <nisshh> flan: whatever the case, it wont be as bad as you think :)
[17:10] <flan> Who would I speak to about claiming a slot?
[17:13] <flan> Or do we just edit the wiki?
[17:19] <nisshh> flan: just edit the timetable on the wiki
[17:20] <nisshh> flan: if you want to know more get in touch with dholbach
=== mrjazzcat is now known as mrjazzcat-afk
[20:01] <jenkins> hey all
[20:01] <jenkins> flan: ping
=== shrini1 is now known as shrini
=== mrjazzcat-afk is now known as mrjazzcat
[21:04] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Thanks for the wiki comment.
[21:05] <ChrisWoollard> That doesn't matter. Anything is ok. A couple of lines would be good.
[21:05] <ChrisWoollard> I have the membership meeting next week, so I am trying to collect them together.
[21:06] <ChrisWoollard> It you don't have time, that is ok.
[21:09] <ChrisWoollard> Doh, wrong window.
[21:09] <dutchie> daker: pong
[21:10] <daker> i need your help
[21:10] <dutchie> for what?
[21:10] <daker> django
[21:10] <dutchie> ok
[21:11] <daker> dutchie, i have this dict
[21:11] <daker> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/0.3/annotate/head:/languages.py
[21:12] <daker> if you want to run the website
[21:12] <dutchie> what do you want to do with that?
[21:12] <daker> oki
[21:12] <daker> so this list of languages should replace the default one
[21:13] <daker> i can render it but i want to make in table of 2 or 3 columns
[21:14] <daker> you see the result by running the website
[21:14] <daker> $ bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-website umpwebsite
[21:14] <daker> $ cd umpwebsite
[21:15] <daker> $ ./manage runserver
[21:15] <dutchie> ImportError: No module named umpwebsite.urls
[21:16] <dutchie> ah, nvm
[21:17] <daker> what ?
[21:17] <dutchie> i branched it to ubuntu-manual-website
[21:18] <daker> ah
[21:19] <daker> http://i.imgur.com/KqfdT.png
[21:20] <daker> dutchie, have you understand what i mean ?
[21:21] <dutchie> one moment
[21:21] <daker> tyt
[21:22] <dutchie> surely that's not really a django problem
[21:22] <dutchie> (not having looked at the source)
[21:22] <daker> instead of have only one column, i want to list them in 2 column
[21:22] <daker> having*
[21:22] <dutchie> i have 2 columns
[21:23] <daker> actual on is just a test
[21:23] <daker> one*
[21:27] <dutchie> i'm not sure what you mean
[21:28] <daker> oki give me a moment
[21:31] <dutchie> i'm going out in a bit
[21:32] <daker> oki
[21:33] <dutchie> can't you just use more columns?
[21:35] <daker> http://i.imgur.com/S2uDB.png
[21:35] <daker> i want something like it
[21:36] <daker> the languages dict should rendered in 3 columns
[21:36] <dutchie> can you do that in CSSS?
[21:37] <dutchie> or CSS
[21:37] <daker> here is the languages.py
[21:37] <daker> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/0.3/annotate/head%3A/languages.py
[21:38] <daker> it's passe to the template here
[21:38] <daker> passed*
[21:38] <daker> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/0.3/annotate/head%3A/website/views.py#L17
[21:40] <daker> normaly the "languages" dict should be displayed like this
[21:40] <daker> {% for code, lang in langues.items %}
[21:40] <dutchie> yes, i've followed the cod eok
[21:41] <daker> have you understand what i want to explain ?
[21:42] <dutchie> yes
[21:42] <daker> explain :D
[21:42] <daker> so i'll be sure you understand
[21:43] <dutchie> i don't think it's really something that you need to understand django for
[21:46] <dutchie> going out now, sorry i couldn't really help
[21:46] <daker> oki nop
=== _thumper_ is now known as thumper