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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276202 | [S1] Sure. Well, I, I think maybe if I contextualize it by showing other robots of, like, to show why this is fascinating, because ultimately I felt like they were human almost immediately. And that display of pain was, uh, what did that- [S2] Giving them a voice. [S1] Giving them a voice, especially a voice of, uh, dislike, of, of pain. | 21.8 | 3.50563 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276202.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276203 | [S1] I have to connect you to my friend Eddie Chang. He studies speech and language. He's a neurosurgeon and we're lifelong friends. Um, he, uh, studies speech and language, but he describes some of these, um, more primitive, visceral vocalizations, cries, groans, moans of delight, um, other sounds as well, use your imagination, as such powerful rudders for the other, for the emotions of other people. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And so I find it fascinating. Um, I can't wait to see this video. | 29.8 | 3.395286 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276203.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276204 | [S1] ... Is that, so is the video available online? [S2] No, I haven't, uh, I haven't recorded it. I just hit a bunch of Roombas that are able to scream in pain, um, in my Boston, uh, in my Boston place. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] So I, I, uh, like people are ready as, as- [S1] Next, next podcast episode with, uh, Lex, maybe we'll have that one. Who knows? We'll | 19.96 | 3.127325 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276204.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276205 | [S1] So the thing is, like, people, I, I've noticed because I talk so much about love and it's really who I am, I think they wanna, it, uh, to a lot of people it seems like there's, there's, there gotta be a dark person in there somewhere. And I thought if I released videos of Rupa screaming, they're like, "Yep, yep, that guy is definitely insane." [S2] What about, um, like, uh, shouts of glee and delight? You could do that too, right? [S1] I, well, I don't know how to, I don't, how to, uh, to me, delight is quiet, right? Like, uh- [S2] You're Russian. [S1] [LAUGHS] | 29.2 | 3.436641 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276205.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276206 | [S1] I don't, I'm more like- [S2] Americans are much, Americans are much louder than Russians. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah. But I, I don't, I mean, unless you're talking about like, um, I don't know how you would have sexual relationships with a Roomba. [S2] Well, I wasn't necessarily saying, uh, sexual delight, but, um- [S1] Trust me, I tried. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] No, I'm just kidding. That's a, that's a joke, Internet. Okay. [LAUGHS] But I was fascinated in the psychology of how little it took, 'cause you mentioned you had a more, negative relationship with the Roomba a little | 25.76 | 3.407621 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276206.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276207 | [S1] Only in the, well, I'd find that mostly I took it for granted. [S2] Yeah. [S1] It just served me. It collected Costello's hair, and then when it would do something I didn't like, I would get upset with it. So that's not a good relationship. It was taken for granted, and I would get upset, and then I'd park it again, and I'd just, like, "You're, you're in the, in the corner." | 17.72 | 3.356664 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276207.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276208 | [S1] Yeah. But there's a way to frame it's, uh, it being quite dumb as, uh, almost cute. You know, you're almost connecting with it for its dumbness. Uh, and I think that's a artificial intelligence problem. [S2] Interesting. [S1] I think flaws are, should be a, a feature, not a bug. | 20 | 3.423605 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276208.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276210 | [S1] I would say, you know, in any discussion around this, if, if we need to define, uh, really the context, it's always, it always should be consensual, age-appropriate, context-appropriate, species-appropriate. [S2] Yeah. [S1] But now we're talking about human-robot interactions, and so... | 16.36 | 3.396989 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276210.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276211 | [S1] Yeah, I had, uh, a Newfoundland, uh, named Homer, uh, for many years growing up. [S2] In Russia or in the US? [S1] In the United States. And, uh, he was about, he was over 200 pounds, so that's a big dog. [S2] That's a big dog. [S1] If people know, people know Newfoundland, so he's this black dog that's, uh, really, uh, | 21.16 | 3.366487 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276211.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276212 | [S1] long hair and just a, a kind soul. I think perhaps that's true for a lot of large dogs, but he thought he was a small dog, so he moved like that and- [S2] Was he your dog? [S1] Yeah. Yeah. [S2] So you had him since he was fairly young? [S1] Uh, for, since, yeah, since the very, very beginning till the very, very end. And one of the things, I mean, he had this kind of, uh, we mentioned like the Roombas, he had a kind-hearted dumbness about him that was just overwhelming. It's, | 29.64 | 3.441601 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276212.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276213 | [S1] I mean, he was always, it's a shared moment. He was always there for so many, uh, nights together. That's a, that's a powerful thing about a dog that, um, he was there through all the loneliness, through all the tough times, through the successes and all those kinds of things. And I remember, um, I mean, that was a really moving moment for me. I still miss him to this day. [S2] How long ago did he die? [S1] Um, maybe 15 years ago. So it's, it's been a while, but, | 28.92 | 3.503585 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276213.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276214 | [S1] Yeah. [S2] And you've been going- [S1] And as you're saying this, I'm definitely fighting back, uh, the tears. I, um, I, uh, thank you for sharing that, that, uh, I guess we're about to both cry over our dead dogs. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Uh, that it was, it was bound to happen just given when this is, when this is happening. Um, yeah, it's, uh- [S2] How long, how long did you know that- | 21.36 | 3.26727 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276214.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276215 | [S1] Uh, sure hope not. Um, but something changed in his eyes. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah, it's the eyes again. I know you and I spend long hours on the phone and talking about, like, the eyes and how, what they convey and what they mean about internal states and for sake of robots and biology of other kinds, but, um- [S2] Do you think, uh, something about him was gone in his eyes? [S1] I- | 21.56 | 3.180044 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276215.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276216 | [S1] This dog- [S2] The fundamentals. [S1] ... loved to pee on things. It was amazing. I wondered where he put it. He was like a reservoir of urine. It was incredible. I'd think, "Oh, that's it. He's just," he'd put like one drop on the 50 millionth plant, and then we'd get to the 50 millionth in one plant- [S2] So much more. [S1] ... and he'd just have, you know, leave a puddle. And here I am talking about Costello peeing. Um, he was losing that ability to stand up and do that. He was falling down while he was doing that. And I, I do think | 27.12 | 3.266809 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276216.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276217 | [S1] I miss him, man. [S2] You miss him? [S1] Yeah, I miss him. And I feel like, uh, he, you know, Homer Costello, you know, the relationship to One's Dog is so specific, but, um... [S2] So that, that part of you is gone. That's the hard thing. You know, um... | 19.16 | 3.479174 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276217.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276218 | [S1] What's, what, what I think is different is that I made the mistake, I think, or I hope it was a good decision, but sometimes I think I made the mistake of, I brought Costello a little bit to the world through the podcast, through posting about him. [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] I gave, I anthropomorphized about him in public. Let's be honest, I have no idea what his mental life was or his relationship to me. And I'm just exploring all this for the first time because he was my first dog, but I raised him since he was seven. | 24.64 | 3.396134 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276218.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276219 | [S1] ... seven weeks. [S2] Yeah, you gotta hold it together. I, I noticed the, the episode, uh, you released on Monday, you mentioned Costello. Like, he, you, you brought him back to life for me for that brief moment. [S1] Yeah, but he's, he's, he's gone. [S2] Well, that's the, he's gonna be gone for a lot of people too. [S1] Well, this is what I'm struggling with. I think that maybe | 22.48 | 3.320574 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276219.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276220 | [S1] You're pretty good at this, Lyle. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I'm gonna wait. Have you done this before? [S2] [LAUGHS] Uh, this is the challenge, is I actually am, uh, part of me, I know how to take care of myself pretty well. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Not perfectly, but pretty well. And I have good support. I, I do worry a little bit about how it's gonna land and how people will feel. I'm, I'm concerned about | 19.72 | 3.031692 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276220.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276221 | [S1] ... their internalization. Um, so that's something I'm still, I'm still iterating on. [S2] And you have to, they have to watch you struggle, which is fascinating. [S1] Right. And I've mostly been shielding them from this, but, um, what would make me happiest if, is if people would internalize some of Costello's best traits. And his best traits were that he was incredibly | 21.56 | 3.357955 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276221.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276222 | [S1] So. [S2] I, I think there's some ways in which he should probably live on in your podcast too. You should, uh, I mean, it's such a, one of the things that I loved about, uh, his role in your podcast is that he brought so much joy to you. I mentioned the robots. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Right? | 19.16 | 3.37528 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276222.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276223 | [S1] In time, um, you're hitting on all the key buttons here. Uh, th- I want that to, I, we're thinking about, um, you know, ways to kind of immortalize Costello in a way that's real. [S2] Right. [S1] Not just, you know, creating some little logo or something silly. You know, Costello, much like David Goggins, is a, a person, but it, | 21.64 | 3.240198 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276223.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276224 | [S1] Goggans also has grown into kind of a verb. You're gonna Goggins this or you're gonna, and there's an adjective like that's extreme, like it. Um, I think that for me, Costello was all those things. He was a, he was a being, he was his own being. He was a noun, uh, a verb and an adjective. So, and he had this amazing superpower that I wish I could get, which is this ability to get everyone else to do things for you without doing a damn thing. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] The Costello effect, as I call it. [S2] So, | 26.16 | 3.491781 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276224.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276225 | [S1] ... on. Yes. Um, thank you for that. This actually has been very therapeutic for me. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, which, which actually brings me to, uh, a question, uh, we're friends. We're not just, uh, co-scientist colleagues working on a project together and, um, uh, and in the world, uh, | 20.56 | 3.089667 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276225.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276226 | [S1] That's a- [S2] Somewhat similar. [S1] Just, just what? [S2] Two, two dogs. [S1] Just two dogs, basically. Um, but let's talk about friendship. Um, because I think that, uh, I certainly know as a scientist, um, that there are elements that are very lonely of the scientific pursuit. Um, there are elements, um, | 21.36 | 3.516149 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276226.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276227 | [S1] ... where you- [S2] ... to, uh, Chicago. [S1] Chicago. [S2] And then Philadelphia, you know, and, and San Francisco and Boston and so on. But really to Chicago, that's where I went to high school. [S1] Do you have siblings? [S2] Brother, older brother. But- [S1] I think most people don't know that. [S2] [LAUGHS] Uh, yeah, he, uh, is a very different, very different person, uh, but somebody I definitely look up to. So he's a wild man, he's extrovert, he's, uh, | 25.04 | 3.497741 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276227.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276228 | [S1] for, like, for younger kids in the Soviet Union was incredible. Like, they did not treat us as kids. We, the, the level of literature, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky- [S2] When you were just a small child? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Amazing. Amazing. [S1] And, like, math, the level of mathematics, and you were made to feel like shit if you're not good at mathematics. Like, we, I think in this country, there's more, like, especially young kids, 'cause they're so cute, like, they're being babied, uh, | 28.2 | 3.519997 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276228.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276229 | [S1] Yeah, they were pushed. Yeah, they were pushed equally, I would say. There was, uh, obviously, there was more, not obviously, but there, at least from my memories, uh, more of a, what's the right way to put it? But there was, like, gender roles. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But not in a negative connotation. It was, it was the red dress versus the suit and tie kind of connotation, which is like, there's, uh, you know, | 25.52 | 3.457349 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276229.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276230 | [S1] Like, uh, guys like lifting heavy things and girls like creating beautiful art and, uh, you know, like, there's like- [S2] A more traditional view of gender. [S1] Yeah. [S2] More, uh, 1950s, '60s. [S1] But we didn't think in terms of, at least at that age, in terms of, like, roles and then, like, uh, homemaker or something like that, or, no, it was more about what people care about. Like, uh, girls cared about, | 25.84 | 3.462166 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276230.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276231 | [S1] What's with the, the sad songs and the Russian thing? I mean, I, I, Russians do, uh, express joy from time to time. [S2] Yeah, they do. [S1] Um, certainly you do. Uh, but, uh, what do you think that's about? Is it 'cause it's cold there? But it's cold other places too. [S2] Uh, | 16.24 | 3.487979 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276231.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276232 | [S1] Like- [S2] They can be a little bit wooden sometimes. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Even the biologists. I mean, one thing that I- [S1] Even the biologists. [S2] Well, I'm so struck by the fact that you, you know, you work with robots, you're an engineer, AI, you know, science, technology, and that all sounds like hardware, right? But what you're describing, and I know is true about you, is this deep emotional life and this resonance, and it's, it's really wonderful. I actually think it's one of the reasons why | 24.72 | 3.006172 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276232.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276233 | [S1] So many people, scientists and otherwise, have gravitated towards you and your podcast is because you hold both elements. Uh, you know, in the Herman Hess's book, I don't know if you read, "Narcissist and Goldman," right? It's about these elements of the logical, rational mind and the, the, the emotional mind and how those are woven together. And if people haven't read it, they should. And, uh, you embody the, the full picture. And I think that's so much of what draws people to you. [S2] I've read every Herman Hess book, by the way. [S1] Okay. So as usual- [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS] As usual, I've done about 90- | 29.88 | 3.391626 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276233.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276234 | [S1] percent of, of, of what Lex says. [S2] [LAUGHS] Stop it. [S1] No, it's true. Um, you, you mentioned Joe, who is a, a phenomenal human being, not just for his amazing accomplishments, but for how he shows up to the world, uh, one-on-one. I think I heard him say the other day in an interview, uh, he said, um, "There is no public or private version of him." He's like, "This is, this is me." He said the wor- it was beautiful. He said, "I'm like the fish that got through the net." | 25.76 | 3.395529 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276234.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276235 | [S1] I love the idea that authenticity doesn't have to be over sharing, right? [S2] Right. [S1] That it doesn't mean you reveal every detail of your life. What, you know, it, it's a way of being true to an essence of oneself. | 12.4 | 3.330572 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276235.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276236 | [S1] ... is hard. And I think that, you know, so we have this, um, pressure, uh, all people, when I say we, I mean all, all humans, and maybe robots too, uh, feel this pressure to be able to express ourselves in that one moment, in that one form. And it is beautiful, beautiful when somebody, for instance, can capture some essence of love or sadness or anger or something in a song or in a poem or in a- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... short quote. But perhaps it's also possible to do it in aggregate. | 29.68 | 3.345872 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276236.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276237 | [S1] You know, all, all the things, you know, how you show up, your, for instance, one of the things that initially drew me to want to get to know you as a human being and a scientist and a, and eventually we became friends was the level of respect that you brought to your podcast listeners by wearing a suit. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I'm being serious here. You know. [S2] Well, I think of it- [S1] I was raised thinking that if you overdressed a little bit, | 21.76 | 3.40373 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276237.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276238 | [S1] overdressed by American. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Certainly by American standards, you're overdressed for a podcast, but this is, but it's genuine. You're not doing it for any reason except I have to assume, and I assumed at the time, that it was because you have a respect for your audience. You respect them enough to show up a certain way for them. It's for you also, but it's for them. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I think between that and your commitment to your friendships, the way that you talk about friendships and love, and the way you hold up these higher ideals, | 28.48 | 3.373417 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276238.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276239 | [S1] Yeah, that, that's fascinating. So the aggregate is, is the goal. The, the, the tricky thing, and Jordan Peterson talks about this because he's under attack way more than you and I will ever be, but that- [S2] For now. [S1] For now, right? For, this is very true, for now. Uh, that, uh, I'll, the people who attack on the Internet, this is one of the problems with Twitter, is, uh, they don't consider the aggregate | 27.76 | 3.493673 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276239.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276240 | [S1] So there's legged robots, you know, they look like a dog, they have a very, I'm trying to create a very real, uh, human-robot connection, but, like, they're also incredible because you can throw them, like, off of a building and they'll land fine. And it's beautiful. [S2] That's amazing. I've seen the Instagram videos of, like, cats getting, jumping off of, like, fifth story buildings and then walking away. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Uh, no one should throw their cat out of the window. [S1] Well, th- this | 26 | 3.513046 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276240.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276241 | [S1] Well, th- this is the problem I'm experiencing. Oh, I'll certainly kicking the robots. It's really fascinating how they recover from those kicks. But like, just seeing myself do it and also seeing others do it, it just does not look good. And I don't know what to do with that. 'Cause I, it's such a- [S2] I'll do it. [S1] [LAUGHS] I, see, but you don't, I, you, 'cause you, at- [S2] A robot. No, I'm kidding. [S1] No- [S2] I'm not- | 24 | 3.503198 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276241.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276242 | [S1] I'm, you know, it's interesting. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Before today's conversation, I probably could do it. And now I think, I'm thinking about robots, bills of rights and things. I'm actually, and not, not for any, not to satisfy you or to satisfy anything, except that if I, if they have some sentient aspect to their being, then I would loathe to kick a robot. [S2] I don't think they'd | 22.4 | 3.410726 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276242.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276243 | [S1] I don't think we'd be able to kick it. You might be able to kick it the first time, but not the second. This, this is the problem I've experienced. One of the cool things is, uh, one of the robots I'm, I'm working with, you can pick it up by one leg and is dangling, and you can throw it in any kind of way, and it'll land correctly. So it's really- [S2] I have a friend who had a cat like that. [S1] [LAUGHS] Oh, man. I, we look forward to the letters from the cat | 24.32 | 3.42377 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276243.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276244 | [S1] Like, I have to start, I have to do what robotics colleagues of mine do, which is like start seeing it as an object. [S2] Dissociate. [S1] Like, dissociate. So, which is fascinating that I have to do that in order to do that with a robot. I just wanted to, uh, uh, take that little bit of a tangent. | 14.6 | 3.459917 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276244.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276245 | [S1] Well, for me personally, uh, just because of my life, my life trajectory and arc of friendship and I should say I do have some, uh, female friends that are just friends, they're completely platonic relationships, but it's been mostly male friendship to me has been- [S2] It's been all male friendships for me actually. [S1] Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. [S2] It's a- | 20.84 | 3.188397 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276245.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276246 | [S1] I wouldn't even say confidence because there's always an anxiety in taking any good risk. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Or any r- risk worth taking. It's given me the, uh, sense that I should go for certain things and try certain things to take risks to- to weather that anxiety. And I- I don't, um, consider myself a particularly competitive person, but I would sooner die than dis- disappoint or let down one of my friends. | 26.64 | 3.480422 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276246.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276247 | [S1] I can think of nothing worse actually than disappointing one of my, my friends. Everything else is secondary to me. [S2] Well, disappointment. [S1] Disappointing meaning, um, not, I mean, certainly, uh, I strive always to show up as best I can for the friendship, and that can be in small ways. That can mean, you know, making sure the phone is away. Sometimes it's about, um, | 22.88 | 3.303351 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276247.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276248 | [S1] fighting or being in physical battle with somebody, jiu jitsu, boxing, or some other form of physical, direct physical contact between two individuals creates this bond unlike any other. Because he said it's, it's like a one-night stand. You're sharing bodily fluids with somebody that you barely know. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I, you know, and I chuckled about it 'cause it's, it's kind of funny and kind of tongue-in-cheek. But at the same time, I think, uh, this is a fundamental way in which | 27.08 | 3.410728 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276248.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276249 | [S1] Um, members of a species bond is through physical contact. And certainly there are other forms. There's cuddling and there's hand holding and there's, um, and there's sexual intercourse and there's all sorts of things. [S2] What's cuddling? [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] I haven't heard of it. [S1] I heard this recently. I didn't know this term, but there's a term, um, they've turned the noun cupcake into a verb. Cupcaking, it turns out. I just learned about this. Cupcaking is when you spend time just cuddling. | 25.16 | 3.304344 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276249.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276250 | [S1] I didn't know about this. You heard it here first, although I heard it first just the other day. Cupcaking is actually a- [S2] So cuddling is everything? It's not just, like, is it in bed or is it on the couch? Like, what's c- cuddling? [S1] I- [S2] We need to look up what cuddling is. [S1] We need to- | 11.92 | 3.215367 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276250.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276251 | [S1] We need to look this up and we need to define the variables. I think it definitely has to do with physical contact, I, I am told. But, um, but in terms of- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... battle, uh, uh, competition, and, um, you know, and the Sheraton quote, I'm just curious. So do you get close or feel, um, a bond with people that, for instance, you roll jiu-jitsu with, or even though you don't know anything else about them? | 27.08 | 3.442331 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276251.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276252 | [S1] I don't know if I would describe it in terms of bodily liquids and all those kinds of things. [S2] I think it was more or less joking, but. [S1] Uh, I think, uh, there's a few ways that it does that. So one, because you're so vulnerable, so that the honesty of stepping on the mat, | 20.28 | 3.419306 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276252.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276253 | [S1] just controlling another person. And also there is some kind of love communicating through just trying to break each other's arms. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I don't, I don't exactly understand why violence is the, such a close neighbor to love, but it is. Like- [S2] Well, well, in | 15.64 | 3.419362 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276253.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276254 | [S1] I found myself like not at all thinking like that at all with, when training with girls. [S2] Well, the context is very non-sexual. [S1] But th- that, I was surprised to learn that. Like I, when I first started Jiu-Jitsu, I thought, wouldn't that be kinda weird to train with the opposites, like, in something so intimate? [S2] So, um, boys and girls, men and women. | 17.16 | 3.476504 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276254.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276255 | [S1] They, they roll jiu-jitsu. [S2] Together, completely. [S1] Interesting. [S2] And the, the only times girls kinda try to stay away from guys, I mean, there's two contexts. Of course, there's always going to be creeps in this world. So everyone knows who, you know, who kinda have to stay away from. And the other is like, there's a size disparity. So girls will often try to roll with people a little bit closer weight-wise. But no, they're, that's one of the things that are empowering to women, that, that's what they fall in love with when they start doing jiu-jitsu, is I, I can, first of all, they gain an awareness | 29.88 | 3.385057 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276255.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276256 | [S1] and a pride over their body, which is great. And then second, they get to, especially later on, start submitting big dudes, like these, like, uh, uh, bros that come in who are all shredded and, like, muscular, and they get to technique to, uh, exercise dominance over them. And that's a powerful feeling. [S2] You've seen women force a, a larger guy to tap or- [S1] Yeah. [S2] ... or even choke him out. [S1] Well, I | 24.6 | 3.506102 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276256.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276257 | [S1] Like the, they're, it just feels, it feels like, uh, we were born to do this. Like that, there's- [S2] But we have circuits in our brain that are dedicated to this kind of interaction. There's no, there's no question. [S1] It, and like, that's what it felt like. It, it wasn't that I'm learning a new skill. It was like somehow I am, uh, remembering echoes of something I've learned in the past. | 26.48 | 3.395175 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276257.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276258 | [S1] Well, it's like hitting puberty. A child before puberty has no concept of boys and girls having this, uh, attraction regardless of whether or not they're attracted to boys or girls. Doesn't matter. At some point, most people, not all, but certainly, but most people, when they hit puberty, suddenly people appear differently. And certain people take on a, a romantic or sexual interest for the very first time. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And so it's like, it's revealing a circuitry in the brain | 26.92 | 3.433704 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276258.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276259 | [S1] Yeah, so, uh, definitely. I've been running late at night here in Austin. People tell me it's, the area we're in now, people say is a dangerous area, which I find laughable coming from the bigger cities. Uh, no, I run late at night. There's something, um- [S2] If you see a guy running through Austin at 2 a.m. in a suit and tie, it's probably- [S1] [LAUGHS] | 21.84 | 3.51153 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276259.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276260 | [S1] ... that brings out those deep philosophical thoughts and self-reflection that I really enjoy. But recently, um, I started getting back to the grind. So I'm going to be competing, or hoping to be compete in t- in September and October. [S2] In jiu-jitsu. [S1] In jiu-jitsu, yeah. [S2] Uh-huh. [S1] To get back to competition. And so that requires getting, uh, back into great cardio shape. And so I've been getting, uh, running as part of my daily routine. | 25.84 | 3.466089 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276260.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276261 | [S1] Yeah. [S2] Well, I always know I can reach you regardless of time zone in the middle of the night, uh, wherever that happens. [S1] Well, part of that has to be just being single and being a programmer. Those, those two things just don't work well in terms of a, a steady sleep schedule. [S2] It's not banker's hours kind of work. [S1] No. [S2] Nine to five. I want to, um, you mentioned single. I want to ask you a little bit about the other form of relationship, which is, uh, romantic love. So, um, your parents are still married? | 29.04 | 3.472014 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276261.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276262 | [S1] Still married, still happily married. [S2] That's impressive. [S1] Yeah. [S2] A rare thing nowadays. [S1] Yeah. [S2] So you grew up with that example. [S1] Yeah, I guess that's a powerful thing, right? If there's an example that I think can work. [S2] It, it, yeah, I didn't have that in my own family, but, um, when you, when I see it, it's, it's inspiring and it's, and it's beautiful. The fact that they have that and that was the norm for you, I think is, is really wonderful. | 24.8 | 3.318777 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276262.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276263 | [S1] that was an inspiration to me. But maybe that's where I have, so I have a similar kind of longing to have a lifelong partner, like that, have that kind of view where, same with friendship, lifelong friendship is the most meaningful kind. That there is something with that time of sharing all that time together. Like, "till death do us part," is a powerful thing. Not by force, not because the religion said it, or the government said it, or your culture said it, but because you want to. [S2] Do you want children? [S1] Definitely, yeah. | 29.48 | 3.480359 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276263.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276264 | [S1] Definitely want children. It's, it's- [S2] How many Roombas do you have? [S1] Oh, oh, I thought- [S2] You should- [S1] No, no, human children. [S2] No, human, human children. [S1] 'Cause I already have the children. [S2] Exactly. Well, I was saying you probably need at least as many, uh, human children as you do Roombas. Big family, small family. [S1] Uh, so- [S2] In your mind's eye, is there a big, are there a bunch of, bunch of... | 22.36 | 3.19465 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276264.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276265 | [S1] for the most part, has only been something that energized them, something that gave them meaning, something that made them the best versions of themselves, like made them more productive, not less, which is fascinating to me. [S2] It is fascinating. I mean, you can imagine if the way that you felt about Homer, the way that I feel and felt about Costello is, is at all a, uh, a, a glimpse of what that must be like, then- [S1] Exactly. | 23.76 | 3.428227 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276265.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276266 | [S1] I think- [S2] Or that you, or, well, and maybe we shouldn't separate this, uh, friendship, um, the notion of friendship and community and the, if we go back to this concept of the aggregate, you know, maybe you'll meet this woman through, um, through a friend, or maybe, or something of that sort. [S1] So one of the things, I don't know if you, uh, if you feel the same way, I definitely, one of those people that just falls in love and that's it. [S2] Yeah, I can't say I'm like that. [S1] With- [S2] With customers. | 27.4 | 3.36867 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276266.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276267 | [S1] With Costello, it was instantaneous. [S2] Yeah. [S1] It really was. I mean, I know it's not, it's not romantic love, but it was instantaneous. No, I, I, but that's me, you know? And I think that you, if you know, you know, because that, that's a, that's a good thing that you have that. | 14.56 | 3.265658 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276267.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276268 | [S1] Yes, and I like the way you said that out loud so that you heard it. It doesn't mean you need to marry her tonight. [S2] Right. [S1] Right. | 6.32 | 3.043067 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276268.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276269 | [S1] ... her tonight. [S2] Exactly. [S1] Right. Exactly. [S2] But, I mean, but people, people are amazing and people are beautiful and that's, so I, I'm fully embraced that, but I also have to be careful with, with relationships. And at the same time, uh, like I mentioned to you offline, I, I don't, um, there's something about me that appreciates swinging for the fences and not dating, like doing serial dating or dating around. [S1] Yeah, you're a one guy, one girl kind of guy. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah, you've said that. [S2] And it's, it's tricky. | 29.48 | 3.322521 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276269.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276270 | [S1] Perfect solution. [S2] I guess. [S1] Perfect solution. [S2] It's gonna work out great. [S1] It's, it's, it's well incorporated. It's, um, uh, part of the, that constitutes machine learning of sorts. [S2] Yeah, of sorts. [S1] I do, you mentioned, um, what has now become a quite ex- extensive and expansive, uh, public platform, which is incredible. I mean, the number of people, I, when I, first time I saw your podcast, I noticed the suit. I was like, he respects his audience, which was great, but I also thought, | 26.16 | 3.121632 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276270.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276271 | [S1] Like the answer to, like a question we don't know the answer to. We're both like fumbling with it, trying to figure out, trying to get some insight that's something we haven't really figured out before, and together arriving at that, I think that's magical. I don't know why we need microphones for that, but we somehow do. [S2] Feels like doing science. [S1] It feels like doing science for me, definitely. That's exactly it. And, and it, I'm really glad you said that because I, I don't actually often say this, uh, but that's exactly what I felt like | 28.28 | 3.460839 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276271.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276272 | [S1] Now, I didn't think there was enough good conversations with world-class minds that I got to meet. And not the ones with a book or, like, this was this thing. Oftentimes you go on this tour when you have a book, but there's a lot of minds that don't write books. They don't- [S2] And the books constrain the conversation too, 'cause then you're talking about this thing, this book. [S1] But there's, I've, I've noticed that with people who haven't written a book, who are brilliant, | 26.8 | 3.491207 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276272.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276273 | [S1] ... hear those folks. And, uh, I have the unique ability to, uh, know how to purchase an, uh, microphone on Amazon and plug it into a device that records audio and then publish it, which seems relatively unique. Like it's, that's not easy in the scientific community. People knowing how to plug in a microphone. [S2] No. [S1] It's | 20.2 | 3.577192 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276273.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276274 | [S1] They can build Faraday cages and two photon microscopes and, uh- [S2] But the- [S1] Bioengineer all sorts of things, but, uh, the idea that you could take ideas and export them into a structure or a pseudo-structure that people would benefit from seems like, um, a cosmic achievement to them. [S2] I don't know if it's a fear or just, uh, basically they haven't tried it, so they haven't learned the skill level. [S1] But I th- I think they're | 24.12 | 3.429696 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276274.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276275 | [S1] But they also don't necessarily always see the value in it. It's, it's, we're all together learning. You and I are learning the value of this. I think you're probably, you have an exceptionally, uh, successful and amazing podcast that you started just recently. [S2] Thanks to your encouragement. [S1] Well, but there's, there's a raw skill there that, | 20.64 | 3.481681 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276275.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276276 | [S1] Uh, wrestling, music, football, both American football and, and soccer. I have a few particular people that I'm really interested in. Uh, [inaudible] brothers, uh, even could be for wrestling, just to talk to them 'cause- [S2] Oh, 'cause you can, you guys can communicate. [S1] In Russian and in wrestling. All right. As wrestlers and as Russians. | 22.32 | 3.478343 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276276.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276277 | [S1] struggle with these ideas or try to communicate these ideas. They like the flaws, they like, they like a human being exploring ideas. [S2] Oh good, they like flaws? Well, that's good 'cause I got plenty of those. [S1] Well, they like the, like the self-critical aspects, like where you're very careful, where, where you're very self-critical about your flaws. I mean, that, in, in that same way, it's interesting, I think, for people to watch me talk to Penrose, not just because Penrose is communicating ideas, but here's this, like, silly kid | 27.92 | 3.287548 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276277.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276278 | [S1] Yeah, maybe it, maybe it fills in a little bit of that or solves a little bit of that loneliness that you were talking about earlier. [S2] Yeah, until the robots are here. [S1] I have, um, just a couple more questions, but, um, one of them is on behalf of your audience, which is, um, I- I'm not gonna ask you the meaning of the hedgehog, but I just want to know, does it have a name? And you don't have to tell us the name, but just does it have a name, yes or no? | 26.32 | 3.343083 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276278.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276279 | uh, in this, like, giant pile of stuffed animals, and he jumped out at me because unlike all the rest of them, he has this intense, uh, mean look about him, that he's just, he's upset at life, uh, at the cruelty of life. And c- and just, especially in the contrast of the other stuffed animals, they have this dumb smile on their face. Like, if you look at most stuffed animals, they have this dumb look on their face. [S1] Yeah. [S2] They're just happy. [S1] Yeah. [S2] It's like Pleasantville. | 28.16 | 3.423656 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276279.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276280 | [S1] That's what we say in neuroscience, they have a smooth cortex. Not- [S2] Yeah. [S1] Not many fold. [S2] Exactly. And this, like, hedge, he, like, saw through all of it. It, he was like, uh, uh, Dostoyevsky's Man from Underground. I mean, there's a sense that he saw the darkness of the world and persevered. So, like, and, uh, there's also a famous Russian cartoon, uh, Hedgehog in the Fog, that I, I, I grew up with, I connected with. There's a, people who, uh, know of that cartoon. You can see it on YouTube. | 28.4 | 3.505938 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276280.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276281 | [S1] It's a- [S2] Hedgehog in the fog? [S1] Yeah. He, it, it, it's just as you would expect, especially from like early Soviet cartoons. It's a hedgehog, like sad. | 11.48 | 3.337883 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276281.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276282 | [S1] ... walking through the fog, exploring, like, loneliness and sadness. It's like, but it's beautiful. It's like a piece of art. People should j- Even if you don't speak Russian, you'll see, you'll understand. [S2] Oh, it's in, I, uh, the moment you said that, I was gonna ask, so it's in Russian, but of course it's in Russian. [S1] It's in Russian, but it's more, uh, there's very little speaking in it. It's almost, uh, | 19.92 | 3.280668 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276282.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276283 | [S1] that there's an interesting exploration of, of, uh, how you make sense of the world when you, uh, see it only vaguely through the fog. So he's trying to understand the world. [S2] Here we have Mickey Mouse. [S1] Yeah, I know. [S2] We have Bugs Bunny. [S1] Yeah. [S2] We have all these, you know, crazy animals and you have the hedgehog in | 22.16 | 3.42855 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276283.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276284 | [S1] Like really artistic content. Not like dumb cartoons that are trying to get you to be like smile and run around, but like create art. Like stuff that, you know how like short cartoons or short films can win Oscars? Like that's what they're swinging for. [S2] So they, what, what strikes me about this is a little bit how we were talking about the suit earlier. It's almost like they treat kids with respect. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Like that they have, that they have an intelligence and they honor them. | 24.6 | 3.506247 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276284.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276285 | [S1] ... that intelligence. [S2] Yeah, they're really just adult in a small body. Uh, like you want to protect them from the true cruelty of the world. [S1] Sure. [S2] But in terms of their intellectual capacity or like philosophical capacity, they're right there with you. And so, uh, the, the cartoons reflected that, the art that they consumed, uh, education reflected that. So he represents that. I mean, there's, uh, | 21.4 | 3.506089 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276285.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276286 | [S1] Until you animate him. [S2] At the t- to animate him. And then I probably wouldn't want to know what he was thinking about this whole time. Uh, he's probably really into Taylor Swift or something like that. It's like that I wouldn't even want to know. Anyway. [S1] Well- | 13.68 | 3.514972 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p30_m4-dialogue_0276286.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517911 | [S1] I eat those pretty much once a day. Again, that's Huberman for the code, and it's belcampo.com/huberman for 20% off your order. And now my discussion with Dr. Matt Walker. Great to finally meet you in person. [S2] Wonderful to connect. Um, I mean, it's been too long, but I suspect it would have been a shorter time before we'd met, less the pandemic. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Um, thank you. | 24 | 3.289735 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517911.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517912 | [S1] ... tell me, I can- [S2] Let's definitely go down that route. So, um, you mentioned how active the brain is during certain phases of sleep. When I was coming up in science, REM sleep, Rapid Eye Movement sleep, was referred to as paradoxical sleep. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Is that still a good way to think about it? Paradoxical because the brain is so active and yet we are essentially paralyzed, correct? | 20.72 | 3.100496 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517912.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517913 | [S1] Are they always horizontal? [S2] Mostly they are horizontal. [S1] That's interesting. [S2] And that's one of the ways that we can differentiate them from other waking eye movement activity. 'Cause it's not always, it can be sometimes horizontal, but can also have diagonal and also vertical in that plane. | 16.48 | 3.275103 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517913.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517914 | [S1] And it communicates with what are called the alpha motor neurons in the spinal cord, which control the voluntary skeletal muscles. And it's a signal of paralysis. And when you go into dream sleep, you are locked into a physical incarceration of your own body. [S2] Amazing. [S1] And, you know, why, why would mother nature do such a thing? And it's in some ways very simple. The brain paralyzes the body so that the mind can dream safely. | 29.88 | 3.3667 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517914.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517915 | [S1] You're done. [S2] You're done. [S1] Yeah. [S2] You know? So that's one of the sort of, that's part of the paradox of REM sleep, both its brain activity similarity, despite the behavioral state being so different, and this bizarre lockdown of the, the sort of brain of the body itself. Now, of course, the involuntary muscles, thankfully, aren't, um, paralyzed, so you keep breathing, your heart keeps beating. | 24.72 | 3.194012 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517915.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517916 | [S1] But you are still paralyzed. There are only, um, two voluntary scoli- uh, two voluntary muscle groups that are spurred from the paralysis. Bizarre. One, your extra ocular muscles. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Because if they were paralyzed, you wouldn't be able to have rapid eye movements. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And the other that we later discovered was the inner ear muscle. And we've got | 25.56 | 3.376237 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517916.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517917 | [S1] ... aqueous or vitreous humor. And so the eyeballs have to keep moving in some way. [S2] Yeah, the drainage systems of the anterior eye are, are made to require movement. [S1] Exactly. [S2] People with glaucoma have deficits in, in drainage through the anterior chamber. But there I'm speculating, I'm also speculating when I ask this, um, | 17.2 | 3.175915 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517917.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517918 | [S1] So maybe take me through the arc of a night, just so that, um- [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] So I, I put my head down, uh, well, for you, what, what time do you normally go to sleep? [S2] So I'm usually sort of around about a 1030 PM guy, and usually I'll naturally wake up sort of a little bit before seven, sometimes before 645 or seven. I have an alarm set for, um, 704, um, AM. [S1] You heard it here, folks. Matt Walker does use an alarm clock. [S2] I really, really, I'm usually- [S1] He doesn't recommend it. | 28.8 | 3.256424 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517918.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517919 | [S1] He doesn't recommend it, but he does use it. [S2] Yeah, I usually said that. [S1] You're human after all. [S2] Oh, I am so human. Um, and, and I've had my sleep issues and I'd love to speak about that too, but, um, it's only just, you know, in the event that, um, you know, 'cause I like to keep regularity too. You've got to keep those two things in balance. And 704, just because, you know, why not be idiosyncratic? Uh, I don't know why we always set things on these, uh, hard numbers. So, yeah, so when you and I- [S1] So you'll go to sleep | 28.72 | 3.195202 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517919.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517920 | [S1] When you and I- [S2] So you go to sleep around 1030. [S1] Yeah. [S2] So using you as an example, um, because I imagine a number of people go to sleep at different times, but 1030 is about when I go to sleep. 11 is for me, but, um, so you go to sleep at 1030. So for that first, um, let's say three hours of sleep, what is the architecture of that sleep look like as compared to the last three hours of your sleep, uh, before morning? | 21.8 | 3.337488 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517920.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517921 | [S1] Yeah. So I should note that that sort of, you know, 1030 to seven, that's just based on my chronotype and my preferential. It's different for different people. I'm not suggesting that that's the perfect sweet spot for humanity's sleep. It's just my- [S2] But I imagine most people probably go to sleep somewhere between 10 and PM and midnight. [S1] It's somewhere between like nine and midnight. [S2] And most probably wake up between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m. or, or 530 and 730. | 27.36 | 3.241508 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517921.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517922 | [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Um, at least in, if you look at sort of First World nations, that's, that's a typical sleep profile. Um, so when I first fall asleep, I'll go into the light stages of non-REM sleep, stages one and two of non-REM, and then I'll start to descend down into the deeper stages of non-REM sleep. So after about maybe 20 minutes, I'm starting to head down into stage three, non-REM, and then into stage four, non-REM sleep. | 27.36 | 3.219341 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517922.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517923 | [S1] Um, as I'm going into light non-REM sleep, it will slow down to maybe 15, 20, and then really starts to slow down, down to about sort of 10 or 8 cycles per second. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Eight cyc- or waves per second. | 13.68 | 3.240512 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517923.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517924 | [S1] All of a sudden, hundreds of thousands of cells in my cortex all decide to fire together, and then they all go silent together. [S2] Hmm. [S1] And it's this remarkable physiological coordination of the likes that we just don't see at, during any other brain state. [S2] That's really interesting. Having recorded from the brains of, of animals and a little bit from humans, I don't think I've ever seen the entire cortex or even entire regions of cortex light up like that. [S1] Yeah. | 28.6 | 3.210177 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517924.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517925 | [S1] It's, it's stunning. It, it's almost like this beautiful sort of mantra chant. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Um, or this sort of, you know, it's a slow inhale and then a meditative exhale. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Inhale, exhale, and these waves are just enormous in their size. [S2] And the body is capable of movement at this time. There is no paralysis. | 19.92 | 3.128156 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517925.mp3 | [
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bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517926 | [S1] I'm suggesting people not do that. Every time I've taken a red eye or I've done that, two or three days later, I get some sort of general feeling of malaise. My brain doesn't work as well. I, I think red eyes should be abolished. [S2] I- [S1] For the pilots too, I mean, and for the- [S2] Oh, and we can speak about those, you know, this data. [S1] And for the emergency room. I mean, long shifts have been shown to lead to, you know, physician-induced errors that lead to a lot of fatalities. I mean, there are a lot of reasons why staying up too long or being up at the wrong times, if you're not adapted to, is just terrible. | 29.64 | 3.369928 | 24,000 | audio/en/bilibili_data_75123309_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_BV1nL4y1N7TN_p32_m4-dialogue_0517926.mp3 | [
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