ASM028 Evolution, Mysticism, and the Power of Sunset

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evolution mysticism and the power of sunset all that and more on this week's episode of ask sciencemic

[Music]

welcome to ask science mike the weekly podcast where i answer questions about science faith and life august the 8th and 9th i'm going to be in fort worth texas at the collective church talking about doubt but also doing the first ever ask science mic live if you'd like to be a part of that come see us in fort worth information is on the website at asksciencemike.com but for now let's get it started hey science mike austin here i'm loving the show and i just had a quick question about evolution i was raised in a christian home and told my entire life that evolution was nonsense but my beliefs are changing go figure that being said i still do not have a proper understanding of how evolution works or how we got here and i'm sure a lot of christians feel the same way when i speak about the subject to other christians a lot of times they will say things like it's ridiculous to think that we came from monkeys upon a little bit of research on my part it seems like we did not come from monkeys but that monkeys and homo sapiens simply share a common ancestor and that each one of us took a different path in our evolution could you explain that a little bit more and give a clearer picture on how evolution works for those of us who want to believe but it's foreign to us because of our traditional upbringing thanks mike i appreciate it i get so many questions about evolution on the program and that makes a lot of sense because the data i've seen some of the research that i've seen tells us that one of the number one reasons that people leave their faith behind is that they begin to accept the theory of evolution via natural selection and their faith community does not and that point of difference and opinion is one of the best statistical predictors for when people will leave church when they'll leave their faith communities behind so evolution's a big deal in faith it's a conversation we need to have and the number of questions i get on the program about evolution reflect that now let's debunk a few evolution myths really quick before we get into exactly how evolution happens and i also want to mention that we did an episode i think it's episode 2 of the liturgist podcast on evolution where we go into the topic with much more detail and only a few glaring scientific errors on my part so first of all a couple ideas in evolution number one absolutely everyone is an evolutionist there's no such thing as a person who does not accept evolution because evolution is simply a scientific word for change everything evolves you're evolving as this podcast happens because you are changing you are not the person you were when you were four years old because you have evolved the controversy here is not over evolution but instead darwin's theory of evolution via natural selection that's the controversy two evolution does not explain how life appeared on earth evolution has nothing to do with how life appeared but merely how a diversity of life appeared from a common origin on earth number three evolution does not say that humans descended from monkeys or anything like that as alluded to in the question both monkeys and humans are modern descendants of some common ancestor and an evolutionary theory the closer you are related to another animal is the more recent you branched and we'll talk about that a little more when we talk about the mechanisms of evolution finally number four evolution is not just a theory a theory in science with a capital t is different than a theory in pop culture a hypothesis is an idea in science that is being tested that has not been falsified or supported with evidence yet a theory in science is a large body of accepted facts that you can base further work upon now in science all knowledge is provisional any facts can be changed by further evidence but basically when scientists give something a capital t theory they're saying you can trust this and to illustrate that look at the theory of gravity we actually have more evidence to support darwinian evolution than we do gravity for example we don't even understand how gravity works at a quantum level and yet no one jumps off buildings because gravity is just a theory right we accept that gravity exists because we observe it which is also why we accept evolution via natural selection now here's specifically in a very simplified overview how evolution works dna is the building block of life rna potentially in very simple things like viruses but but mostly for the purposes of this discussion dna is the basis of all life and dna copies itself using components in a cell including rna to make copies of itself to make new cells which in the case of cellular life single-celled life makes new organisms or in the case of multicellular life just keeps populating tissues now dna is really good at copying itself and there's even these tiny little machines that run along your dna like train cars on a train that check for errors when dna gets copied it's really wild and it helps reduce the number of errors that happen but errors still happen sometimes when dna is copied and enough of those problems in an adult for example may manifest itself as skin cancer when your skin's dna has become so damaged that cell growth mechanisms become unchecked other times these kind of errors are called mutations and they happen during reproduction so because of some failure in copying or some environmental problem or whatever the dna that was copied from a parent to a sex cell like a sperm or an ovum has a change a little bit of data gets garbled and sometimes these mutations are bad other times they're benign they don't do anything or they do something that doesn't really affect the organism for good or bad and sometimes they're beneficial and a lot of that depends on the environment right in humans mutations that create lighter skin are advantageous in northern climates where there's less sun exposure but disadvantageous towards the equator where there is more sun exposure so how good a mutation is depends on the surrounding environment and since environments change evolution helps organisms deal with changes in the environment now we all know this happens we see organisms adapting to local conditions through dna changes now if you have a mutation that doesn't really line up with your environment you're going to be less likely to breed and pass on your genes if it's a positive change you're going to be more likely if it's a benign change it's not going to affect your chances of reproduction and so over time beneficial changes tend to spread more and that's how evolution works now how do you get different species well you can imagine that as groups adapt to their environments and different populations spread they can get separated rivers may appear we're talking about over eons incredible periods of time and when those groups are no longer able to breed with each other to share their dna their dna can drift to the point where they're no longer compatible enough to create a new organism sexual reproduction becomes impossible at that point you have new species so chimpanzees and bonabos uh are very recently related in some cases they can still even interbreed successfully um but you know this is a two species that have recently branched from each other you go back a little bit further and we diverge from chimpanzees you may not be aware that there's actually more evolutionary difference between african elephants and indian elephants than humans in chimpanzees that's how closely related we are now you look at these small changes over time and they are small and you wonder how something as marvelous as an eye could be created for example and here's kind of how that would work in evolution you start out with a mutation you've already got skin on an organism that's sensitive to heat which is nothing but a form of light heat is nothing but infrared light that's how you experience heat energy and so through a mutation skin that's already sensitive to heat becomes sensitive to red light it's just a slightly different wavelength of electromagnetic energy and that benefits the species by being able to move between lighter and darker places which may help it find plants which feed on light for example and then another mutation occurs and more and more frequencies of light become detectable to this skin and the next thing you know it's not a skin it's an eye patch like we see on flatworms and then you know over time these eyes keep getting a little bit better because each mutation makes that worm more likely to reproduce until finally you have fish with very advanced eyes then here's the funny thing we know that life on land came from life in the sea and because of that our eyes modern human eyes are actually adapted fish eyes and what's funny about that is our eye structure and fish works perfectly you don't have focus issues at very close distances or very long distances but our eyes have focus issues close why because we our eyes have to carry around a little pocket of water on their limbs in order to be able to function because that was a favored adaptation as reptiles and amphibians and other similar organisms began to crawl on the ground those who could see better out of the water could avoid predators and find prey easier do you see the incredible fact here that it is tiny tiny changes over millions of years that result in everything we see now if you'd like to learn more i'll have a link to our liturgist episode on evolution on the show notes at sciencemike.com i'll grab a few other uh overviews of evolution as well that may include some visuals and be easy to follow but this is an important question because like i said the younger you are the more likely you are to accept the theory of evolution and the more likely you are to leave your faith behind as a result [Music] hey mike my name is graham i'm from portland oregon uh i have a question about sort of liminal spaces specifically uh dawn and dusk those times of day when light gets not fully gone but not fully here um i'm curious why we seek out those experiences why do we go find sunsets why do we get up early to watch sun rises is there some sort of scientific basis that the light does something to our brains is there maybe an evolutionary understanding of those were the best times of day to hunt or survive i'm not really sure so i would love to hear the scientific basis for why those specific times of day seem to have some sort of meaning uh correlated to beauty or transcendence looking forward to hearing what you come up with thanks i don't know there's some definitive scientific explanation uh to our predilection for sunrise and sunsets that's separate from other types of natural beauty we tend to seek out other than the fact that sunsets and sunrises are pretty predictable we know they happen every day in most of the world sorry far north and we also know that uh these represent a shift change that nocturnal animals are ending their waking pattern in an opposite sequence that diner all animals like us are in now we are tropical apes we're one of the best large-bodied mammals in the world at expelling heat energy and dealing with high temperatures and you would imagine that it was advantageous to our ancestors to be very active as the first light appeared and to become an active again as the light dwindled because there was less heat to deal with so you can imagine you're being a draw to us there during the heat of the day on the african continent probably best for our ancestors to sit in the shade and wait for cooler temperatures in order to do their foraging and hunting now we do know that humans have a bias towards wide open natural spaces and that those spaces tend to evoke awe in us and wonder and we also know that we find novel environments beautiful because we're born explorers that's why we like to see beautiful sights we've never been to before it scratches some itch in us some wandering need it's why we travel that's why we love vacation humans love a change of scenery some other animals find that uh stressful and anxiety inducing but not homo sapiens we naturally love to travel now it's also interesting when we consider an outdoor space at sunrise and sunset because based on our atmospheric composition all the blue light gets scattered out of a sunbeam which is normally white light at sunset and sunrise and that means the light is very red tinged now our circadian rhythms the the energy cycle of our brains and bodies is highly tied to our perception of blue light so blue light tends to make us awake makes it hard for us to sleep and sets our bodies clocks red light is much more gentle and so if you're waking and in sort of a sleepy state a gentle sunrise is going to help slowly draw you into a more wakeful period as well as a red sunset is going to help you slowly move into a more restful state for the night so there may be something special about sunrise and sunset in any beautiful natural environment in that it is easier to enter a calm or restful state in the presence of all this red light and the relative absence of blue light i wonder if that might be a factor we're also you know we're very drawn towards wood fires for example those that's another form of generally very red light you know you can sit around by a fire and go you know p pretty quick to sleep afterwards compared to watching a television because of the abundance of red light and the relative lack of blue light so i don't know if this might come down just to hue of light plus natural vista equals bliss for many humans i know it does for me i love sunrises and sunsets these days i'm such a morning person it's probably easier for me to catch a sunrise i get pretty sleepy as the sun starts to go down but that's a great question now when we think about liminal spaces or thin spaces spaces where we feel closer to a spirit world it's interesting that those spaces tend to incorporate the physical qualities in the natural world to provoke all wonder or mystery so the grand canyon is is awe-inspiring and uh sunset at the beach or in the mountains is awe-inspiring but when we go into a cathedral for example they're architected so there's a massive space that encourages you to look up they're generally lit with candles or other red forms of illumination and the artificial spaces that we consider liminal seem to incorporate these themes into their design and help our brains find that otherworldly mysterious beautiful awe-inspiring quality you know i doubt that the architects of medieval cathedrals had access to neurological research but on some level they took notice of the cues in the natural world that led them to awe and tried to create spaces that would do the same for other people in the context of god which is fascinating and beautiful and uh you know we tend to have this kind of superiority complex going on as modern humans we think that the ancients or our predecessors were foolish or less wise than we are but they did quite well with the information that they had so i hope that future generations are more gracious towards us than we are towards our own ancestors [Music] our last question this week is actually two questions it's a two-for-one question special the first one comes from twitter using the hashtag asksciencemike radian21 asks how can one build foundational rational certainty that the story of the christian god represents reality which is boy that is one heck of a tightly composed tweet and then we have another question that came in via the email inbox that says you mentioned almost in passing on pete holm's podcast something to the effect of we can't meaningfully talk about god before the universe because our words involving time don't apply something to do with the speed of light i think and pre or post singularity anyway my question is doesn't that prevent us from talking about god now now that time is a reality even if it is just for us or am i missing something now i paired these two questions together because they have opposite intent the first question says how can we know exactly who god is how can we know that the christian god the god of the bible as described in scripture is reality that that is the one true god the second question leans into the mystical language and the scientific language i used to justify mysticism on you made it weird with pete holmes relating to mystery and how difficult it is to describe god so in response to the first question when you say how can one build foundational rational certainty that the story of the christian god represents reality i would say you can't that's right i would say you can't i don't believe we can be certain about exactly who god is in the second question i was talking about the difference in physics as we understand singularity that state the universe was in before the big bang before the rapid expansion where the laws of physics were one where time and space were one where there may not have even been causality my point there was our language completely breaks down describing singularity not only does our language break down but our mathematics break down when we attempt to describe a singularity state you see even in the bible our understanding about god has evolved first god was a man who walked with us in a garden he said that it was good and he showed us how to live but there was trouble in paradise and we moved on and next god was a stranger we wrestled with an unknown face who looked like a man and only after difficulty could god be known and be revealed but god continued to grow in our eyes and god became a burning bush that was not consumed by its fire who said simply that i am god continued to expand beyond just a bush and after the people of god left egypt god was a pillar of cloud during the day and fire during the night that showed the people where to go in the wilderness and after that god dwelled in an ark that traveled with the people of god in the fields of battle and who rewarded his followers with the social currency of that time military conquest and victory when the people of god settled down into their own nation god became a dwelling spirit within a temple that denoted yahweh's rule over a specific geographic patch of the earth and after that nation was overthrown and the people of god were in exile god returned as a man this time a man named jesus an incarnate face on the mysterious spirit from the temple but this time god spoke of a greater and more expansive love than had been part of the faith before this time god said the most important thing is to love me and the next most important thing is to love your neighbor and all that i say hinges on those things and then this man left he ascended into heaven and suddenly god was a spirit that dwelled within our hearts a universal force that dwelt not within one temple but every body of every believer potentially a temple everywhere in the world everywhere humans traveled but our understanding of god was not done evolving still because next the church established god as a triune god three in one father son and holy spirit which one of these christian gods accurately reflects reality they all do they are all metaphors that point to the source of all they are all pictures of a god that somehow reaches out to us across the cosmos there's a tendency whenever god reveals a new metaphor to his followers or her followers because we need a new picture we tend to dismiss the old one we tend to hold ourselves as superior to someone who understands a different metaphor for god these days i'm over it that's why i'm a mystic we're all scribbling on tissue paper with crayons are all the language we have including the language in scripture is woefully inadequate to describe the ground of all being and the source of all my friend pete ends has a quote and it says this it is important to remember that god always speaks in ways that people can actually understand and so god gives us language that points to god and god's greatness and god's wonder and god's majesty and of course god's love but that language is not god and never will be i don't think in this life with these brains we will ever truly know god with certainty experience god yes but i don't believe we will know god until we return to that source [Music] another week another episode of ask science mike in the books god of a lot of announcements to cover here at the end of the show there's a lot going on a few things related to the liturgists one we're planning a a fall tour called lost and found centered around liturgy we've created called lost and found it's kind of based on our podcast by the same name as well as some musical contributions by gunger and the brilliance and it's me and gunger in the brilliance on stage with strings with band leading an interactive storytelling experience about faith and doubt we'd like to take this across the country and we're looking for venues that can bring us in as part of that tour now to be clear we are not just looking for physical space we have to pay for travel and housing and expenses for you know 12 or 14 people to make this happen so we're looking for places that'll bring us in with an advance and sell tickets in order to make this possible if that's you go to the liturgists.com or actually go to ask sciencemike.com and i'll have a link to our venue form where you can fill out a sheet and we'll get in touch with you and see if we can make it work if not no big deal but if you're interested in us coming to your town that's the way that's the way we do it uh we've got to bring the whole crew uh we're also planning our next belong event which is going to be in london november the 14th more details we'll come out about that soon we're also going to try to squeeze one into los angeles in the near future so listen about that and yes i hear you on twitter new episodes of the liturgist podcast are coming soon michael and i have both had just really punishing travel schedules and it's been hard to get together and record the show ask science mike's a little easier i can do it by myself that's why i haven't skipped this show so in terms of places i'm going to be like i said at the top of the program we're going to ask science mike live at the collective church in fort worth texas in the first part of august i'll also be going to the relevant podcast 10th anniversary party in orlando in september i'll be at forefront church in new york city talking about sex drugs and violence in september i'll also be doing a rare appearance in tallahassee at my church good samaritan and then we'll be going to do an online event called the sandbox cooperative and that's one that everyone who listens to this program can be a part of because it's going to be live streamed on the web with an internet-based q a i think that's actually pretty exciting now i'd love to come see you in your town you can go to ask sciencemike.com click book mike and then find folks at chafee management will talk to you about how to get me to your town now i don't let you know that i'm just about out of uh openings in 2015 and 2016 is actually starting to book up pretty well so if you have any thoughts of me coming to your town don't delay i don't want to create a sense of artificial scarcity but my calendar is really filling up now we need your questions keep them coming we have some fantastic questions lately you know more questions are always need to keep the program going my biggest fear is waking up one day and not having questions to answer for ask science mike and i guess i just start singing you know baritone pop songs acapella to punish you guys for not sending in questions so please send in your questions and i want to remind you that our show is listener supported this literally helps me have health insurance and food at this point the podcast is a huge part of how i make life happen so a dollar five bucks ten bucks really helpful on patreon and you can change or cancel pledges at any time listen i'm not a church this is not a tie there's no coercion just if you've got a couple dollars and enjoy the show i'm really thankful if you choose to be generous and offer something our pre-production this week was done by haley hyde she picked the questions on the show i thought they were pretty good ones greg nordin does our production at sound design and jeb bottaford wrote and recorded the theme song if you need original music written or recorded jeb's a whiz at that stuff thanks for listening guys and i will see you next [Music]