Episode 12: "Big Dyke Energy" (w/ Jordan Crucchiola!)

*This week the queers are joined by Vulture’s Jordan Crucchiola to talk about the epic journey through gender that is 2004’s SEED OF CHUCKY!   This is an episode full of digressions, obsessions, transgressions, and dueling Jennifer Tilly impressions.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on SUSPIRIA, RIVERDALE, and “Your Art Will Save Your Life!” [1]*

## **Trivia**

"This week we're coming at you from the closet of caftans in Tilda Swinton's dressing room." Mark christens friend of the pod Don Mancini "Daddy Don". Michael shortens this to "D.D." Mark adds Jennifer Tilly and two of the Spice Girls to his repertoire of impressions (Scary and Baby). Nay, Michael and Brennan sing together.

Topics brought up during the episode: *Suspiria* '77, an episode comparing the two *Suspiria* movies, Roxane Gay, rgay op-ed in NYT, *Hunger*, Roxane Gay's Playboy shoot, Roxane Gay on the Roseanne reboot, the "piece of beef" dad from the opening of seed of Chucky, Ed Wood and *Glen or Glenda?,* Julia Roberts, Redman's episode of *MTV Cribs*, Gemini's Twin on SNL, the Gemini's Twin *Cribs* parody, *America's Next Top Model* season one and Robin sleeping on the floor, *RuPaul's Drag Race* season one, Julia Roberts's tits in *Erin Brockovich*, Baby Spice on *Absolutely Fabulous*, *Suspiria* '18 swag of a metal hook, Jordan's piece on 55 essential queer horror films

## **Tea Time**

**Mark -** *Suspiria* (2018), *Chilling Adventures of Sabrina* part 1

**Jordan -** Only just started *Haunting of Hill House* (Netflix), first two episodes; pilot episode of *Riverdale*

**Michael -** First two episodes of *Haunting of Hill House* (Netflix)

**Nay -** First two episodes of *Haunting of Hill House* (Netflix), Your Art Will Save Your Life by Beth Pickens

## **Shady Summaries**

**Jordan:** It's a madcap family drama, featuring the most enduring of the 1980s super-killers Chucky the doll

**Mark:** I don't have a summary so much as I think that it's the *Ordinary People* of the *Child's Play* series

**Nay:** It's the movie where I think at my youngest I was attracted to two different genders of people in the movie because I wanted Jennifer Tilly *and* Redman

**Michael:** So it's kind of like an awakening film for you

**Nay:** Yeah

**Jordan:** A root?

**Nay:** When I re-watched it last week; one of my roots. I should have brought this up on our queer root episode. But I remember being young and being really turned on by Jennifer Tilly but not knowing that's what it was and being attracted to Redman. And now I'm older I'm like, "You're cute, but I hate you please stay away." But Jennifer Tilly is still fine as hell

**Michael:** It's a hardcore Nineties slasher in an already deep-in-the-aughts world. Very meta 90s vibe, yeah. It's no shade, that's just what that movie is to me

## **Pride Float**

**Mark:** What *is* the Pride float for this movie going to be?

**Michael:** Do they get one? Does it get one?

**Mark:** Of course it does!

**Jordan:** Extravagantly

**Nay:** Glen/Glenda gets a big-ass float

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Jordan:** I think it needs to be like a musical, there needs to be a rolling performance on it. Like a Macy's Thanksgiving float where there are dancers dressed as Glen/Glenda

**Mark:** But all dancing and existing on a giant inflatable gorgeous Jennifer Tilly's abundant rack

**Jordan:** Yes, yes

**Mark:** And I say that with the utmost respect, but oh my God, she's just

**Nay:** Absolutely

**Mark:** Perfect

**Jordan:** Perfect

**Mark:** And I want them all frolicking, and killing and dancing

**Nay:** Yeah. In the rack

**Mark:** In the rack

**Michael:** This just reminded me that Tiffany flashes her chest

**Mark:** Yes she does

**Jordan:** Yeah. Not Jennifer Tilly. Tiffany.

**Mark:** There's puppet nudity. There's literally puppet nudity

**Michael:** There's puppet nudity. I'm literally laughing and choking while we record

**Jordan:** I think that way, like as far as the feminine energy of this movie, the fact that like, Jennifer Tilly is, you know, scantily clad but remains clothed, but Tiffany exposes herself I think is a real conflict. "We'll give you the slasher nudity you've been waiting for, y'all"

**Mark:** "Just not how you expect!"

**Jordan:** And really, Chucky's the most objectified one, because we watch him masturbating through the lens of John Waters's camera

**Mark:** It's, this is a gay ouroboros, this movie

**Michael:** It really is. Like, listening to Don describe it, it's like, "There you go."

**Mark:** What you've just described, "John Waters photographs Chucky masturbating," and it's just like...

**Michael:** This episode should be a minute long and it's just Don's clip

**Mark:** When I was watching it...

**Jordan:** Doesn't (John Waters) say, "God bless the little people"?

**(Everyone else):** Yeah

**Michael:** What were you gonna say, Mark?

**Mark:** When I was watching it, Josh came in and was like, "What the fuck are you watching?" And I was like, "Just *Seed of Chucky,* just watch it." And he was like, "I don't wanna watch this-- ooh this is funny." And of course he watched the rest of the movie

**Michael:** Nay, I love your Pride floats

**Nay:** I can't

**Michael:** You think you can't?

**Nay:** Yeah, I can't up that. I *love* the idea of the rack, you know, and everyone frolicking around. But heavy focus on Glen/Glenda, because I feel like at Pride, non-binary folks, trans folks often have to *fight* for space at Pride

**Michael:** For visibility

**Nay:** For visibility

**Mark:** I got rack-matized. I'm sorry.

**Nay:** Ohhhh.

**Jordan:** We can literally have it all on the floor, we can have it all on the floor

**Nay:** I literally wore my rack out today in honor of Jennifer Tilly's rack

**Michael:** Of JT?

**Nay:** It's fine. (Jennifer Tilly's) rack deserves the respect you're giving it, you know?

**Mark:** Okay. All right.

**Nay:** But yeah. I want something. You know how we were gonna make in our fake Pride world make *Sleepaway Camp* give a lot of money to the (L.A. LGBTQ Center)? Yeah, I think Glen/Glenda, yeah, there has to be something like that

**Jordan:** I think there's actually, I think there's a "Take Me or Leave Me" number to be had with Glen and Glenda singing to one another. Or a ballad made of like, the coming out speech that is the two of them

**Michael:** The Spice Girls "Two Become One"?

**Nay:** It's called "You Don't Have to Choose"

**Jordan:** "You Don't Have to Choose"! That's exactly what the ballad song is called. "You Don't Have to Choose"

**Nay, Michael and Brennan:** (sing some of "Two Become One")

**Mark:** I would love it if Scary Spice like showed up and she was like, "Oi! Yer not allowed to use me record!"

**Michael:** Baby (Spice) walks in

**Mark:** Yeah, Baby walks in. (as Baby Spice) "I'm Emma Bunton and I don't like this!"

## **Quotes**

**Mark:** (*Suspiria*) Healed my myopia, it cleared my skin

**Jordan:** It paid your rent

**Mark:** It paid my rent. It is… in all sincerity I think it's probably one of the best horror movies period, I've seen in I don't know how long?

**Jordan:** Same

**Mark:** *Chilling Adventures of Sabrina* is beautifully rendered. It's gorgeous to look at. It's nice to see a show, sort of a genre-lite show that is not lit like a Forever21 at the mall. I saw people online going like, "It's so dark! It's so dark!" I'm like, "Yeah, it's dark because they're fucking, it's a witch show!"

**Michael:** People need to stop thinking it's the sitcom

**Mark:** It's meant to be dark. It looks great. It looks gorgeous. My one complaint is that there's not enough danger.

**Michael:** I heard there's a lot of meandering

**Mark:** Well, it's interesting. It starts out really strong because it's so much about character and then it starts to veer into demon of the week shit, which is like, for me, demon of the week I'm just like [snores] "Goodbye."

**Jordan:** Like a demon procedural almost?

**Michael:** Like *Supernatural*?

**Mark:** Kind of. Like it stops being really about being about the character, although there is one spectacular episode where I think her name is Tati Danielle, is, um shit, I'm sure I've fucked up her name. It's the episode about the feast of feasts and it's terrific. And I just hope that as I continue in the season and it obviously gets renewed, more people will die, because I think the show, all the show is missing is a potent sense of actual danger.

**Michael:** It's actually interesting that you bring that up, because I saw a couple of people online talking about that exact same thing and I wonder if people are getting used to the serialized streaming that's going on, and I've always felt, even leading up to it, and I haven't seen it, I always got a Buffy vibe from this show. And Buffy would do the villain of the week. And I think people are used to streaming shows that say, "Here's eight episodes, they're gonna connect the dots in every single one."  Like it's one storyline and I wonder if maybe that's throwing people...

**Mark:** Maybe?

**Michael:** Because it is on Netflix and they're like, "Here's a monster this week, we're gonna, it's gonna wrap up at the end."

**Jordan:** Right

**Mark:** It might be. I'm not sure.  Either way, I have been enjoying it. And the actress's name is Tati Gabrielle, and she's terrific

**Brennan:** And one...

**Michael:** Oh, sorry, go ahead

**Brennan:** I've also seen three episodes of this show

**Mark:** Oh, it's producer Brennan!

**Brennan:** It's me. Hi.

**Jordan:** "It's me.:

**Brennan:** Welcome, to me, the Kristen Wiig movie.

**Mark:** So good

**Brennan:** So, I think what you're talking about with the stakes there is kind of what a lot of witch shows have to deal with. 'Coz *Coven* dealt with that too, 'cause the original season of *Coven*, the third season of *American Horror Story,* it had no stakes, because the magic didn't have a lot of rules. It was just like, "We can being back anyone at anytime."

**Jordan:** The stakes was fabulosity. The stakes were fabulosity

**Michael:** You can do anything you want?

**Brennan:** I believe in the stakes

**Mark:** It was like, 'How big can we make Frances Conroy's hair this week?' That was kind of, which you know, was enough

**Jordan:** "How sad can we make Taissa Farmiga? How scary can we make Jessica Lange?"

**Nay:** "How racist can Kathy Bates be this episode?"

**Jordan:** Yes. "How arch can we make *everything*?"

**Brennan:** No, that's great. And that element of *Sabrina* is on point...

**Nay:** "How fine can Angela Bassett be?" Again and again

**Mark:** Oh my God, have you seen that video where she's talking about her diet?

**Nay:** No, I did not

**Mark:** All she's doing is talking about is, "I eat Ezekiel Bread and then I have one leaf of this and then I have an egg and whatever," and it's just like the most elaborate thing she goes into. You're just like...

**Nay:** Cancelled

**Mark:** Oh my God!! Yeah, I was just like, "That's not--" I wanted to be like, "No, that's not enough. That's not enough food."

**Michael:** "You need more."

**Michael:** I brought (Tilda Swinton's caftan closet) up specifically for you, because I figured that would be a really great segue way...

**Mark:** To watch me spontaneously combust?

**Michael:** Yes. And to like, maybe see you have one in your chair?

**Jordan:** *Suspiria* '77 I *like. Suspiria* now, I *feel,* I *feel* like the veins in my chest

**Mark:** Yeah, no. Put it inside me

**Mark:** Carey O'Donnell tweeted "(*Suspiria*) should have been ten hours long," and I was like, "Yep."

[Mark and Jordan continue gushing about *Suspiria (2018)*]

**Michael:** Nay, let's go get something to eat

**Jordan:** My favorite thing about (*Haunting of Hill House*) so far, besides Kate Siegel's fabulously big dyke energy entrance...

**Michael:** Mmm, she really does have that. Yeah. Like mondo.

**Jordan:** into the show, is how between Elizabeth Reaser, Carla Gugino and Kate Siegel...

**Michael:** They all look the exact same?

**Jordan:** Yes. How they found these women who like aren't the same woman but have that vaguely "You're definitely related" look?

**Michael:** Yeah and someone actually today was complaining to me about how they look the same. I'm like, they're family

**Jordan:** They're family. These aren't just...

**Michael:** It's kind of great to actually see the casting is actually well done.

**Jordan:** It's not like, "Oh, we just wanted a stock brunette." It's like, "No, they're all the Crains." I really like that.

**Jordan:** My roommate has possibly started getting into *Riverdale,* so we watched the beginning of that, again. And we watched the *pilot*. And going back to the pilot, knowing Cheryl's sexual journey, there's a scene where she's manipulating Betty in the beginning of the show and she's like, (femme voice) "They're over there having girl time in Betty's room." (Normal voice) And she just starts doing Betty's makeup and like gets in close and like straddles her and like pushes her chest forward at her

**Nay:** Hot

**Jordan:** This is so much better *now*, than it was...

**Michael:** I don't remember that

**Jordan:** It's not memorable before you know she...

**Mark:** *Riverdale*'s a fucking riot. *Riverdale* is like if a bunch of kids staged *Twin Peaks* in a Spearmint Rhino

**Michael:** It really is

**Jordan:** *Riverdale* is one of my favorite examples of one of my favorite things that happens in TV that normally doesn't happen until like at least season four or five

**Michael:** Season five or six?

**Jordan:** Yeah. Which is like, *Pretty Little Liars* did this in season four, where it was like, "Fuck ***everything***. This is just fanservice. Continuity is dead, you're here for the dynamic, you're here for the banter."

**Michael:** At least in a high school show it starts happening when they go to college

**Jordan:** Yes! Yes! It didn't, it wasn't even forced. *Riverdale* was not *forced* to jump the shark, it opted into jumping the shark

**Mark:** Someone was like, "Look, a shark!"

**Michael:** Veronica has two businesses and she goes to high school. I'm like, "Wait, what?" I just, my favorite part of the pilot is just Archie walking off the construction site, looking ripped as fuck, and like, not being good enough for the football team. I'm like, "Well, yeah. You should be modeling. Fuck football."

**Jordan:** Yeah, yeah.

**Brennan:** Those muscles are for show, they're not for sport. They're pretty muscles

**Michael:** He's gay then

**Brennan:** What?

**Jordan:** Watching it from the beginning, too...

**Michael:** I know many gays that I go, "You have a really nice body," and they're like, "Thanks. It's for show. It's not for strength."

**Jordan:** I also have a text, and maybe this is something to not get into, but I have an open dialogue with a friend via text where we just are definitely sure that Archie-slash-KJ is a straight bottom. Like Archie is a straight man...

**Mark:** *Ohhhh*, like a peggee

**Jordan:** Yeah, like a straight...

**Brennan:** Peggy Bundy?

**Jordan:** Just is having sex with men and it's not a big deal. He's *not* gay...

**Michael:** He's fluid

**Jordan:** He's not mad about, like if you brought up that he's having sex with men he'd be like, (New Zealand accent), "Legend." That's all you'd get from him

**Michael:** Or he'd just be like, "All in a day."

**Jordan:** "Yeah. Okay cool."

**Michael:** Allegedly. Allegedly, KJ

**Jordan:** Allegedly, allegedly. But like our fanfiction, it's *our* fanfiction, for the real-life and the fictional character that he's a straight bottom

**Michael:** He's in prison, right? On the show

**Jordan:** Yeah. They promoted this season with him doing pull-ups in a prison cell

**Michael:** This show knows what it is

**Jordan:** It is! Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa knows what the show is

**Michael:** Knows what he's done

**Michael:** When you're at your lowest point and feeling like nothing matters, that's when doing shit matters the most

**Michael:** (to Nay) Girl, I get you

**Nay:** You always do, Michael. We all listen to this. If you note, Michael is the first person to laugh at things I say.

**Michael:** Hell yeah

**Mark:** How dare you

**Jordan:** That's not just lip service, he *in action* gets her

**Michael:** I, like, (Nay's) laugh gives me just so much joy

**Jordan:** That's what you're doing for this world, that's one of the things you're doing

**Nay:** There *are* tweets about it

**Michael:** There are

**Mark:** There actually are

**Nay:** Y'all have been tweeting about my laugh and--

**Michael:** Someone messaged me today and said, "Nay's laugh," we had an episode premiere today with Michael Varrati, God bless him, I love him, he's just the greatest. But someone messaged me and said, "Nay's laugh at the seventy-minute mark killed me." I just wrote back, "Specific!"

**Jordan:** Time stamp!

**Mark:** Michael and I could die tomorrow and nothing would happen, but we have some serious Nay fans for the pod. It's true

**Nay:** How many messages do I have about you being daddy, Mark? And you have people in your DMs, Michael, sending you pics, you know what I mean?

**Mark:** (deep voice) What do you mean?

**Jordan:** A say more moment

**Mark:** Well, I, now, I don't know anything about that

**Michael:** It's great

**Nay:** Yeah. Slide in them DMs

**Michael:** (Don Mancini) was our first guest on this show

**Jordan:** What a man of the people

**Mark:** Hi, Don

**Michael:** Hi, Don

**Mark:** Friend of the pod

**Nay:** The dad of dads

**Mark:** Your Dad of Dads

**Brennan:** Dad Mancini

**Michael:** (suggestively) *Make Room for Daddy*

**Brennan:** Okay, just be warned he will *probably* listen to this

**Nay:** No, I know. That's why I'm saying it

**Mark:** No, that's great

**Michael:** I hope so

**Brennan:** You should know

**Jordan:** I assumed all of that was for an audience of one, so

**Michael:** It was for myself

**Brennan:** We're narrow-casting

(Chucky laughs in the *Seed of Chucky* trailer)

**Michael:** That laugh is amazing!

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. My laugh. That was it

**Mark:** Was that Nay? No, it wasn't

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "That shouldn't be a problem for me. I'm Jennifer Tilly."

**Nay:** Oh. My. God.

**Jordan:** Incredible

**Michael:** You guys, Jennifer is here with us

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Hi everybody. It's great to be here. Thanks for watching my movie"

**Nay:** Okay, but Mark if you're really gonna do that, I have like, I'm gonna write a few things down I want you to say in that voice

**Mark:** Please do

**Nay:** I'm gonna save it for my spank bank

**Mark:** Please do. Please do. Just jot them down and by the end of the pod I will whisper them as we fade out, I will cooze them

**Brennan:** Do you need a pen and paper because I have those

**Nay:** Oh no, I was kidding. I literally said I was saving it for my spank bank

**Michael:** That's the whole segment for today, Mark and Nay

**Mark:** Nay was like, "I didn't mean that."

**Jordan:** This *isn't* for anyone

**Nay:** I was like, yeah, "This is for me."

**Michael:** Ah my God, just record it

**Nay:** Oh the producer, "You need a pen and paper? Yeah."

**Brennan:** I devote myself to being the nerdiest person in the room at all times. And not in the cool "I know facts way." Just like a total nerd

**Michael:** Opening credit sequences. They're so cool! Why don't we get more of them?

**Jordan:** Oh, like the cold open

**Michael:** Yeah. Like literally being a sperm. Spermy credit sequences

**Mark:** Well, shout-out to Amy Heckerling who pioneered that spermy sequence with *Look Who's Talking*.

**Nay:** Oh, exactly

**Jordan:** In a way that was anatomically correct, too.

**Mark:** It was?

**Jordan:** That wasn't the James Bond like, animation version

**Nay:** Those were some real fallopian tubes

**Jordan:** It was like, "Wow, we're in it with a small camera."

**Mark:** They were very, um, I wonder what they were made of

**Jordan:** Yeah, that's a very good question

**Michael:** But it was interesting watching the opening credits because *Halloween (2018)*, which just came out, is one of the first movies I've seen in awhile that's had a long, full opening credit sequence

**Jordan:** Deliberate

**Mark:** With the inflatable pumpkin?

**Michael:** With the inflatable pumpkin. But here, you get that, you also get backstory but you also get a cool theme. My point in bringing this up is I just miss opening credit sequences. I watched *Terminator 2* recently. I was a guest on Clarke Wolfe's podcast recently and we discussed *T2* and that has an opening sequence and I'm just like, really missing them. So I dunno. I don't know what you guys think

**Jordan:** And like TV doesn't have those anymore either, like I remember...

**Michael:** No, it's such a thing of the past and I kind of love when they happen. And here you get backstory with it. They fill in the six-year gap with basically...

**Nay:** Sperm

**Michael:** Yeah, with sperm. Reminding you that they're pregnant. They give you a plot point that like you see the "Made in Japan" birth in the womb, um, that's it. I just was really excited that there was, I forgot about the opening credits sequence while watching this, from seeing this movie in the past, and I just love them

**Nay:** I had forgotten, too, yeah

**Jordan:** I'm a big fan of the, adjacent to that, I'm a big fan of the cold open. Like the way every *Six Feet Under* episode started...

**Michael:** That launches into an opening credits sequence?

**Jordan:** That would foreshadow the ghost you would essentially see later on. And in horror movies, often talking with you, Michael on Twitter about *Scream.* The beginning of *Scream 4* with the cold open upon cold open upon cold open is one of my favorite things I've ever seen in any movie.

**Michael:** Give me a fun cold open

**Jordan:** Yeah, I love that. It is, it really sets off the tongue-in-cheek in just the right way

**Michael:** Yes. And that's exactly what this movie's opening credit sequence is, is you get the, you know what you're in for. When you see just a pile of sperm go down your screen

**Mark:** (The opening) definitely fakes out a bunch of times as soon as the mom is like in the shower, the doll is like, "Rarr, boobs!" And then you're like, and afterwards I was like, "Wait a minute, Glen/Glenda's not into the boob, nevermind." And like you said, you watch *Seed of Chucky* for the bugfuck crazy. Like you don't watch it for...

**Jordan:** Watching it again to get ready for this, I was like, "I am so-- I feel so warmly about this movie." Like it is season five of the TV show

**Mark:** Yeah, no, it completely is

**Jordan:** It's season five of like season five of *Pretty Little Liars*. It's like, "If you're still here? You're not going anywhere."

**Mark:** It's a movie that literally takes a detour just to blow up Britney Spears. For no reason

**Michael:** For no fucking reason

**Mark:** For no reason except she's just there and she's like, "Hiii!"

**Jordan:** And it has John Waters just to melt him with acid

**Mark and Nay:** Oh my God

**Michael:** And I'm like, "Why is there acid in his photo developing room?" And then I realize they actually use acid to develop their photos

**Jordan:** Yeah. Hence the little rubber-coated tweezer-tongs.

**Mark:** And (John Waters) is a holdover from *Bride of Chucky*, isn't he?

**Michael:** I don't believe so

**Mark:** Isn't Pete Peters in *Bride*?

**Michael:** Who?

**Jordan:** I don't remember that

**Mark:** Pete Peters is the character he plays in *Seed*

**Michael:** I don't remember him being in *Bride*, no

**Mark:** Really? Who am I…?

**Brennan:** I don't think so

**Michael:** I don't think so either

**Mark:** Oh no, that's Katherine Heigl, sorry

**Michael:** *Bride* had a wink, but it still had a...

**Jordan:** *Bride* was still going for a kind of legitimacy.

**Mark:** We have Ronny Yu. Ronny Yu is a legitimately great action director, so *Bride* definitely soared in a lot of ways, and you know, it's also nuts and in comparison to *Seed* it's nowhere near...

**Jordan:** It's like you were saying, "Oh look, a shark! Let's go out of our way to leap over that shark."

**Michael:** *Bride* did literally and artistically birth *Seed,* though. I actually showed Brian *Bride of Chucky* recently...

**Nay:** Hey Brian

**Michael:** Hi Brian

**Mark:** (femme voice) Hey Brian

**Michael:** And he was like, "Why are we watching this?" I'm like, "Because it's amazing!" But the thing that's fun about *Bride*, to take a step back and go to part four is that it was well received in 1998.

**Mark:** Very much so

**Jordan:** It was!

**Michael:** It was a box office success

**Jordan:** I remember, yeah, it was a hit movie

**Michael:** It got pretty decent reviews for what it was and it breathed new life into Chucky

**Jordan:** I remember seeing the trailers and being like, "Oh yeah!" Like, it was a time before anybody was "But actually"-ing you on Twitter about what you liked and it was just like, "Cool, Bride of Chucky!"

**Michael:** And its poster was spoofing *Scream 2*'s. It was already in the game of kind of going towards the spoof territory.

**Jordan:** I like that it's also dispassionate British people (in the opening scene), like there's no...

**Michael:** Like it's kind of cold and they've got this daughter who's like, "This doll sucks!"

**Mark:** (British accent) "We're English and your toys are ugly!" (normal voice) Okay…

**Jordan:** Like it plays like it's gonna be, it plays like the exact same as the scene coming shortly after where, like not-alive Tiffany and Chucky are playing in that made-for-TV movie kind of setting where that guy's walking through the fake snow and it feels like a made-for-TV live production and that's exactly how the first one plays, too. So it's like, "No, this is a warmed over low-budget, we're not even trying. Well actually there's a movie within these two."

**Michael:** Watching it today I was like, "This is *Seed of Scream 3 Urban Legends: Final Cut*," because that is what's going on right there, it's like those three movies in one

**Mark:** It's so true

**Michael:** The thing I love about *Seed* that the other two movies didn't do, is *Urban Legend 2* took itself fucking seriously. *Scream 3*, borderline. It took itself seriously but it also had Parker Posey running around like a crazy lunatic, which I love

**Mark:** You know what *Scream 3* took?

**Jordan:** And Patrick Warburton

**Michael:** A shit?

**Mark:** Courtney Cox's bangs.

**Jordan:** I was going to say, is this going to be about Courtney Cox-Meyer?

**Nay:** Oh. My. God.

**Mark:** It ate them. It literally bit them off.

**Michael:** That movie's so great

**Jordan:** It's like in a shredder

**Mark:** She spends the whole movie looking for her hair

**Michael:** What show was it on, was it *Married… with Children*? Oh, the Suck-Cut from *Wayne's World*

**Jordan:** Yes!

**Mark:** Yes, it really is

**Michael:** I love that it's just kind of the progression. "We see what you did *Scream 3*, we see what you did *Urban Legend 2* and we raise you, like, tenfold and a vat of acid."

**Jordan:** Well, I don't know what Don Mancini's plan was going into that, but it feels like, "You know what? So what if we're done." It was just like, "We're gonna throw everything in the kitchen sink," and then...

**Michael:** That's kind of what it was like. "See what sticks."

**Jordan:** And then it ended and everybody was like, "We like this!"

**Nay:** Yes

**Jordan:** "No, no. Let's do it again!" And then they got the franchise more back on track than it had been since like, probably (*Child's Play*) *3*

**Michael:** Well I think he needed Seed to go back to the roots

**Mark:** What I find fascinating about the movie is, watching it, I hadn't seen it since it first came out. Watching it this week, I found myself looking at it going, especially Jennifer Tilly throughout...

**Jordan:** Throughout

**Mark:** What was her approach? Was she like, (as Jennifer) "Don, I want you to make me one, but I want you to drag the shit out of me. Tell everybody I'm a washed up drunk. I'm a slut, I'm stupid." (normal voice) After awhile I was like, "Jennifer are you okay?"

**Michael:** I audibly gasped when her assistant just goes, "Fuck, she's fat." I was like, "Oh my God!"

**Jordan:** No, her assistant doesn't say that. Tiffany says that. Tiffany, who wants...

**Michael:** Yeah, Tiffany says that, Jennifer Tilly does say that

**Jordan:** There's all that happening but at the same time the driver is lusting after (Jennifer), Redman wants to bang her, Tiffany wants to be her. There's this weird tension in the whole thing of, "Oh my God, what a has-been," and then also like, "We are also all wanting to bone you, Jennifer Tilly."

**Michael:** "Obsessed with you?"

**Nay:** That's how it be. That's realistic

**Jordan:** There was like this awareness

**Michael:** Yeah, it was like super-aware satire going on, but you're just like constantly... Are you going to set her on fire next?

**Jordan:** It was like Ryan Murphy-Abigail Breslin season one of *Scream Queens*. Just like, "Dude. Why did you agree to this?"

**Mark:** Like, what did she do to you? Why is everyone so mean to her?

**Mark:** I also appreciated that Tiffany seemed to be like, in Al-Anon or AA. Well, no, she was in AA, basically. She was essentially...

**Michael:** She was trying to go through recovery

**Mark:** And I appreciated that they actually, and this is not something that a lot of people know about 12-step programs, but there are numbers you can call when you can't get to a meeting. And that was actually my favorite gag in the movie, where the guy was like, "Can you get to a meeting?" And she was like, (as Tiffany) "Uh, no." (normal voice) And he's like, "Why not?" And she's like, (as Tiffany) "It's a long story," (normal voice) or whatever. I dunno, that was one of my favorite gags in the whole movie

**Michael:** There is a huge camp factor and I love that it starts off immediately with the international ventriloquist competition, because I'm sure that's probably a thing. I actually wish I would have looked that up

**Jordan:** In Glasgow

**Mark:** "Psychs" and Shitface?

**Michael:** Yeah. Yeah. "Psychs" and Shitface

**Mark:** First of all, that's a whole movie in and of itself, because that character is the only one that's like, "Talking dolls, yeah, it's fine."

**Michael:** "It's cool."

**Mark:** And he's not fazed...

**Michael:** And like couldn't chase one down either

**Mark:** At all. This guy is just like, "It's cool. I'm gonna psychologically terrorize this..."

**Jordan:** "I'm gonna exploit this."

**Mark:** "I'm gonna exploit this little puppet creature." At first I was like, Jemaine Clement? Oh no, it's not you

**Mark:** Oh, Nay, are you, do you feel, you look like you're having a moment

**Nay:** I know, because that baby is precious

**Jordan:** Glen/Glenda is adorable!

**Nay:** Glen/Glenda is my fuckin' baby, yeah. That's my baby

**Jordan:** The idea that, like, "Oh, he's hideous!" I never actually got that. He's got weird shark teeth, but he's pretty cute

**Nay:** It's the big eyes

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Jordan:** It was no more grotesque than Chucky was at like, any point

**Michael:** Adorable

**Jordan:** That evil, um, who is that horrible child in the, the redheaded child, John Ritter

**Michael and Mark:** *Problem Child*

**Jordan:** *Problem Child*, yeah. Any, like, evil ginger archetype

**Nay:** I loved that movie

**Michael:** So did I!

**Jordan:** I loved *Problem Child 2* more

**Nay:** *Problem Child 2* is so bomb

**Michael:** *Problem Child 2*'s better because it's him and the girl.

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** And she's a little fucker too

**Nay:** She is

**Jordan:** She's outstanding

**Michael:** They're puking on that ride, ugh

**Jordan:** Yes!

**Mark:** All I remember was the tilt-a-whirl puke scene

**Jordan:** The love rock?

**Michael:** And they get back at the thirty-six year old sixth grader?

**Nay:** Okay? Oh my God, yes!

**Jordan:** And the second one had twins, too

**Michael:** Oh my God, we're just doing *Problem Child 2* now

**Nay:** Fuck yes!

**Michael:** When they're selling lemonade and he pisses in it?

**Jordan:** Yes!

**Nay:** I have got to re-watch those movies ASAP

**Jordan:** But my point being that Shitface-slash....

**Nay:** Yeah, sorry

**Jordan:** No no no, I was participating in that derailment as well; slash-Glen-Glenda, it was no more off-putting ever than the original cherub-faced Chucky doll. I would have been more drawn to Glen/Glenda than original Chucky.

**Michael:** Well, speaking of Glen/Glenda; there's so much to unpack in this movie. With Glen-and-Glenda, they're, there are a couple clips I'd like to play that we can bounce some stuff off of.

[First clip is of Glen/Glenda meeting their parents, Tiffany and Chucky]

(Glen/Glenda shows their parents the "Made in Japan" stamped on their body as stereotypical flutes play on the soundtrack)

**Mark:** The unfortunate gong

**Michael:** The spiritual cousin of...

**Nay:** The microaggression, yeah

**Tiffany:** Sweetface, come to mommy!

**Nay:** Yes ma'am

**Mark:** (as Nay) "Whatever you say, Ms. Tilly."

**Michael:** In that clip alone, there's a lot of heavy subject matter there if you think about it, in this fun, crazy, weird movie. First off, the way (Glen-or-Glenda) looks is brought up immediately and it's like a self-image thing. Like he, you know, "Are you doing this because of the way I look?" Both Tiffany and Chucky react differently, but the best, but the thing I love the most and we've actually talked about on the show before, is, I think we talked about it a little bit in *Lost Boys* especially. As soon as Tiffany finds out that's her child, mother's love right away. And like that mother-son bond we talked about during *Lost Boys* immediately rushed back into my head while watching the movie.

**Michael:** So I just thought that would be an interesting conversation to like, start from about the Glen/Glenda of it all

**Jordan:** It's funny, because you have this malicious figure in Chucky, who his reaction is not immediately approval, but it's like a topical reaction. He doesn't have like this deeply offended; he never at any point rejects Glen/Glenda, like, (as Chucky) "That's not my, that's not my boy!" He just wants a son because he's this really machismo figure. But at no point like when the Glen/Glenda thing comes up, he doesn't have to excuse himself, he doesn't have to run away. He participates in this thing he doesn't understand. And mom, from the beginning is just like, (as Tiffany), "Whatever you want, sweetie."

**Michael:** I actually do think though that Chucky, he doesn't run, but he will if Glen/Glenda isn't exactly who he wants him to be

**Jordan:** Sure

**Mark:** Really? I think Chucky's a great guy and character

**Michael:** I was going to say, I don't want to give Chucky a big thumbs up on his parenting

**Jordan:** Well, at baseline for two parents that should get the thumbs down

**Michael:** Well, I mean, for a psychopathic killer, he's on the up-and-up

**Mark:** Up-and-up

**Jordan:** He makes attempts *to* bond, although on his own terms. When Glen transitions to Glenda and goes on the murder spree, and he's like, (as Chucky), "At least I spent time with the kid!" It's like really? That is true. You are the only one who did activities

**Michael:** That's true. And that brings up an interesting topic I wanted to discuss, too. But Nay, you've brought this up before: the parents deciding someone's identity for them. We talked about it on *Sleepaway Camp*, that kind of stuff. Let's talk about that, because there's a lot of gender conflict with Glen-and-Glenda themself and then to have parents go, "No, you're this, you're that. We're deciding you're gonna be a killer, you're gonna dress this way, you're gonna do that." It's interesting that in part five of a fucking killer doll series...

**Jordan:** That has been around for decades at that point

**Michael:** In 2004, we're talking about gender norms, we're talking about fluidity...

**Mark:** In between killing no less than twelve people

**Michael:** Yeah. Melting John Waters. And like sending Britney Spears off a cliff.

**Jordan:** Trying to inseminate Jennifer Tilly. Jennifer Tilly trying to inseminate Jennifer Tilly with Brad Dourif/Chucky's sperm

**Michael:** That I'm just like, why are they doing this?

**Michael:** I don't have a specific question, but I think this is a conversation to have because we talk about the concept of time here a little bit too, and when a movie is made. It's 2004, right?

**Mark and Jordan:** Yeah

**Jordan:** This is like when *Saw* movies are about to happen. That's the zeitgeist

**Michael:** Post like, nineties-era horror and we're about in the remake craze, *Texas Chainsaw* came out the year before?

**Jordan:** Yeah

**Michael:** And then you have this colorful, weird movie, but it's also tackling shit

**Mark:** Well, didn't this movie suffer from being like neither fish nor fowl because it didn't play into the torture porn theatrics of *Hostel*...

**Michael:** I think there might have been a regime change at Universal at the time, because it came out under the Rogue Pictures banner and I think it had like, actually might have sat for a little bit?

**Mark:** Yes

**Michael:** Does that make sense?

**Mark:** I don't know this for sure, but I think  production and sort of the inception of this movie was troubled from the start.

**Michael:** Yeah. Because you would've...

**Jordan:** I can see how that pitch might have made people be like (as an executive), "Mmm, we don't know."

**Michael:** Bouncing off the success of *Bride (of Chucky)*, you would think it would've come out at the latest in 2000. So, thoughts Nay? Anything? What were you thinking while watching?

**Nay:** Well I was thinking about several...

**Michael:** Besides Jennifer

**Nay:** Besides Jennifer Tilly. Several Instagram holes I fell into this week, just kind of following stories of intersexed folks and...

**Michael:** I love your posts

**Nay:** Folks who, you know, were born with genitals that weren't immediately identifiable as "male or female" and then having a doctor make a suggestion to the parents like, "You know, we should do some kind of cosmetic surgery just so like, the child is more comfortable later." And literally children later being like, "I actually just wish you would have just left my genitals alone," right. Or, "You decided that I was a woman because my genitals looked more vaginal than testicular or something and actually I'm a man." Or, "Actually, I'm both and I just want my genitals to be the way that they were." And so, I had a lot of thoughts about that for sure

**Michael:** Yeah, it's like, again for the type of movie it is, like, it's a thinker.

**Jordan:** Well, what I like about it is, like, obviously the Glen/Glenda split causes some lashing out with the doll, with the character, but Glen/Glenda/Sweetface is also the only character who's injecting reason into the situation, even if that frame of mind can change at any given moment. But it's not an otherizing of this genderqueer character, because within the context of this movie, within the context of his family, they're all murderers. When Glenda snaps...

**Mark:** (as a documentary narrator) "The third gender."

**Jordan:** When Glenda snaps and starts killing people, she's more like her family *then*. But when she, when Glen is like, "No, I don't want to harm people and this isn't what I do and I choose not to be a killer," that is when he is most sort of, that is when he's most unlike his family and is taking this kind of hero role. So it makes the goodness part of him the sort of accessible part of him

**Michael:** Well there's a part where they're like, my favorite part is when, "Can't I be both?" Fuck yeah! And like, I don't remember this movie, the first time I saw it. I don't remember any of this, so, yeah

**Jordan:** Yeah! And mom's immediate reaction is, (as Tiffany) "Well some people," (normal voice) and obviously Chucky cuts that off, but the immediate answer to that is, "Well, y'know…."

**Michael:** You're so ahead of your time, kid!

(The scene from *Seed* when Tiffany and Chucky discover their child is smooth below the bathing suit area is played.)

**Mark:** I remember looking at Glen/Glenda and getting some serious Amanda Plummer vibes

**Jordan:** Amanda Plummer the end of *So I Married an Axe Murderer*

**Mark:** Yeah, when she's like, when someone really pulls the string on Amanda Plummer and is like, "Go nuts, honey."

**Michael:** Yeah, I was kind of getting Marcy D'arcy season 10 *Married… With Children*. Same haircut

**Nay:** Someone loves to bring up Marcy D'arcy!

**Michael:** Fucking love Marcy D'arcy, I love Amanda Bearse. Unsung hero, man

**Mark:** She really is

**Michael:** She really is

**Nay:** I was thinking about, just like, listening to it now, especially, just how absurd it is for someone to look at someone else's genitals and then try to assign a gender to them. That is so wild! Oh my God!

**Jordan:** That is *extremely* true

**Michael:** It's so hard to not hear that and just go, "People are really fucking stupid." Know what I mean?

**Nay:** Damn. Yes, I do I know what you mean

**Jordan:** And looking at it and the idea of being like, "This is ridiculous because it's puppets." Actually that's not why that's ridiculous. It's more ridiculous if you make this about people having to register their *genitalia* and their birth sex. Are you fucking kidding me?

**Michael:** The movie does a really good job of going there, and really bringing up, I don't want to say *all* aspects of the conversation, but really making you discuss this. And I really don't feel like the movie has a full POV on it, which I actually think is a benefit, because you get the negative connotations from it and you get the positive connotations from it; Mark it looks like you were gonna say something?

**Mark:** Yeah, I mean I think that as much as I enjoy *Seed of Chucky*, I think part of where it starts to fall apart at the end a little bit is when it seems to become much more about busywork and it strays away from the family unit

**Michael:** Agreed

**Jordan:** Fair

**Mark:** And I think that had, and you know maybe there were earlier drafts, because you know, it's hard for me to believe an idea that potent and that sort of comically, both comic and serious in its own way, wasn't sort of...

**Michael:** Finished?

**Mark:** Well yeah, at the center of Don's original vision, so I'm kind of like, I wonder if there was tinkering or what have you. But the fact that the story ends up moving further and further away from, you know, Chucky and Tiffany's relationship to Glen/Glenda and more into like, voodoo and insemination and turkey basters and Redman getting gutted at a table, i mean it's like this movie...

**Jordan:** But also Redman getting gutted because, like the tiny doll feminine avenger. (As Tiffany) "Have some self-respect!" (Normal voice) And like...

**Michael:** Redman is garbage

**Jordan:** Yeah. And she's crying because she killed Redman. It's like, "Ooops I lapsed, Rome wasn't built in a day." But then she's also like, (as Tiffany), "That fucker had it coming."

**Michael:** The movie in a weird way is like, it's like a 2018 blender. It's got like that casting couch culture, it's got like a #MeToo aspect to it. It's like, I was laughing at it and also like, "Oh my God," when (Redman)'s literally sexually harassing her while they're pretending to be Mary and Joseph. At the end of the day, I remember thinking the first time I saw this, I don't think I was mature enough or intellectual enough to understand what Don was doing

**Jordan:** Oh, of course not

**Michael:** It's like he played in this absurd sandbox, because at the end of the fucking day, I think he's trying to say religion's fucking absurd, and it's laughable. So it's like sharp satire and goofy satire, but I'm kind of loving it the more I'm talking about it. He kind of hit a bullseye

**Mark:** Well, if this was in 2004, when did *Passion of the Christ* come out?

**Jordan:** It was either 2003 or 2004, because it was my freshman year of college

**Mark:** I feel like it was three

**Jordan:** It was the beginning of my freshman year of college, so I think it was three

**Michael:** I'll look it up

**Nay:** It was my senior year of high school, so

**Mark:** I think it was three, but it kind of created this short-lived space of...

**Brennan:** 2004

**Mark:** 2004, okay. All right, never mind. My theory is stupid, bye. Good night, everyone

**Michael:** No, go ahead, it might have been early in the year

**Jordan:** I think it was early in the year. That's not a summer release. And I remember it was when I was kind of getting...

**Nay:** That was right after his birthday

**Jordan:** I was getting to know the girls in my dorms, and a handful...

**Michael:** (fey voice) "Happy birthday to you…"

**Jordan:** Mel Gibson would have released that at Easter

**Michael:** February 24, 2004. Get that Easter crowd. "You wanna see some Jebus die?"

**Jordan:** Get that Easter crowd. I went with a group of girls who were going with their church from my dorm floor

**Nay:** That's the gayest thing I've ever heard

**Jordan:** They were like, you know, "If anybody wants to come, my church is buying tickets"

**Nay:** Oh.

**Mark:** (as a sorority girl) "Hey, you guys wanna go see *Passion of the Christ*?"

**Nay:** "Does anyone wanna come?"

**Michael:** (as a sorority girl) "And then go and get wasted after?"

**Jordan:** I was the only one not sobbing. I was the *only* one not sobbing of all the girls I went with. I was like, "This is a different…."

**Michael:** November for *Seed*

**Nay:** "Is this a mockumentary? Because this is hilarious!"

**Michael:** *Passion of the Christ* is like the ultimate torture porn movie.

**Mark:** It is. It is the defining torture porn movie of the early aughts. Sorry, Eli!

**Michael:** *Seed* came out around Thanksgiving, hence the Turkey basting

**Jordan:** Oh, right. It does feel like one of those holiday themes

**Nay:** It *is* a holiday movie! Yeah, I feel that. It does have holiday vibes

**Jordan:** Well, I think the way of like, your parents choosing your sort of path for you, (Glen/Glenda) screams at one point, "You're tearing me apart!" He's vexed by this.

**Nay:** My little baby!

**Michael:** I know

**Jordan:** By the end, (Tiffany) is telling at him like, "You have to choose, you have to choose!" And then she's like, "Wait. We have two babies." Ultimately Glen/Glenda doesn't have to choose between being Glen or Glenda, Glen and Glenda get to live as autonomous little children. So I think it's interesting that there wasn't a prioritization in the end for whether the good kid Glen or the bad kid Glenda had to sort of be the dominant one, they both just got to live their lives. *And* at the instance of offense, at one of her children, Tiffany/Jennifer Tilly then beats Flavia to death with a doll of herself, because basically you don't talk shit about my kids. Like any of them. Even the bad one.

**Nay:** *Ohhhkay*

**Michael:** Those wigs on those two kids, they're like...

**Mark:** Oh my God

**Michael:** I'm sorry Don

**Nay:** I lost it. I was crying

**Michael:** They're like, I am now starting to dress characters in one from this show, so their wigs now go with the mustache of the cop from *Sleepaway Camp*, like a Mr. Potato Head.

**Nay:** That felt piece? Yes

**Jordan:** Those wigs are only just behind, the Kate Mara reshoots wig from *Fantastic Four (2015)*, just behind them

**Nay:** You are so brilliant

**Jordan:** The Kate Mara reshoots wig is the ultimate

**Nay:** I love a reshoot look

**Michael:** I *love*--

**Nay:** Michael really loves a reshoot look

**Mark:** Michael loves a reshoot look

**Michael:** Give me dead children, and a reshoot look, eight days a week

**Jordan:** Give me some reshoots roots

**Michael:** Ugh, give me a reshoot look dead kid

**Michael:** There's something interesting that I thought about the movie, too, is that the person who gets to fully embrace their identity at the end of the day is Chucky

**Jordan:** Yeah

**Nay:** Ain't that the truth?

**Michael:** Right? So, what do you think of that? It really stuck out to me that he ultimately decides, "I wanna stay the person I am. I wanna stay in this doll. Being human sucks, yadda yadda yadda."

**Jordan:** And that Jennifer Tilly, Tiffany dresses him down, "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about."

**Michael:** I mean, it's so great. It's like a beautiful line reading. Talk about how hard it is to do voice work. People think actors can just walk into a booth and do voice work. It's not easy and Jennifer nails it.

**Jordan:** Obviously Jennifer Tilly is the exception

**Nay:** Mmmm yeah

**Michael:** It's from all her years on *The Family Guy*. And I said "the" because I know people there and they hate when people say that. But yeah, I thought that was interesting. What did you think, Nay?

**Nay:** Like that's the patriarchy

**Michael:** Right?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Satire or no?

**Nay:** Uh, no. Yeah, I mean...

**Michael:** It's Don, so it could be, right?

**Nay:** Yes, so we all don't just fucking die out of misery, but you know, 'cause that's the truth, y'know

**Mark:** Yeah, I mean it's Don, I don't think Don is like, co-signing. I think he's allowing Chucky to be true to Chucky is. Charles Lee Ray is a serial killer and he's unrepentant

**Michael:** At the end of the day, they're Chucky movies, right? So, you've gotta go back to Chucky

**Nay:** He likes continuity, y'know, and...

**Mark:** And you know, nobody wants a Chucky movie that's like, you know, ends with like, (as Chucky) "Oh God! I kill because I'm unhappy and I'm unhappy because I kill!"

**Brennan:** Can I chime in for a sec? The end of the movie is everyone finding their true identity, and that tearing apart the family, because it's a structure that will not work that way

**Nay:** That's what happens when you find, for so many queer folks when they find their true selves, it like, tears their family the fuck apart and they have to like...

**Michael:** And then they go and find their *true* family, their chosen family

**Nay:** They get to be like, "No fuck ups allowed."

**Michael:** And that's bomb

**Nay:** Hell yeah. It's everything

**Michael:** Chosen family's awesome

**Nay:** Shout-out to my chosen family

**Michael:** Same here

**Mark:** Can I just say one thing, though? It's shocking to me that a couple as famous as Chucky and Tiffany never got their Brangelina name. And I was sitting here going like...

**Jordan:** I mean, that was before we were really shipping--

**Michael:** Chilly?

**Jordan:** Trucky?

**Mark:** I know, I was like, Chuffany? Ticky?

**Michael and Jordan:** Tucky? Tucky

**Brennan:** That's the Tumblr hashtag. I think Tucky's the one

**Jordan:** You're right, I mean, yeah, for expediency's sake

**Michael:** I mean, it's cool that Jennifer Tilly's playing herself so you could do Chilly

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Chilly. Chuffany. Ticky."

**Nay:** Ooooh. Oh Mark

**Michael:** Keep going

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Tucky. Hi, Nay. It's very good to see you. I hope you don't mind. I didn't expect to be calling either, I just..."

**Michael:** Imagine if Jennifer talked to Marie from *High Tension*

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "I was just thinking that after the pod maybe you and I could spend some time together."

**Jordan:** The open "I" in that, the open "I" is really important

**Brennan:** So Jordan and Mark have shown their prowess. I think I need Nay and Michael to also attempt impressions of Jennifer Tilly

**Michael:** Oh, there's no way. That's not happening

**Mark:** (normal voice) YES. Do it, do it, do it, do it!

**Nay:** I wish I would have practiced

**Michael:** You got Sylvester Stallone out of me once

**Brennan:** That was great!

**Mark:** Yeah, remarkably good

**Michael:** And I'm stopping there

**Nay:** Shit, every time...

**Michael:** Go out on a high note

**Nay:** I can't do it, though, because every time I try to do a Jennifer Tilly, it sounds like Cartman

**Jordan:** Do you push your jaw?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Jordan:** (as Cartman) "You mean like this?"

**Nay:** Yeah, exactly. Why do you guys know everything?

**Jordan:** (as Cartman) "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

**Michael:** I love a good Cartman

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Nay, I just want you to do me, please."

**Jordan:** I just felt my whole body tense up!

**Nay:** That's real

**Michael:** How are the female characters treated in this movie? Is the battery fully charged on girl power? Does it need to be plugged back in? What do we think?

**Jordan:** That is so tough to determine with this movie. The girl power aspect...

**Michael:** It's very female-forward

**Jordan:** Because there is an awareness of every way the Jennifer Tilly idea and reality is being ripped apart, and she's participating; like she is both the tiny doll that is lionizing her and wants to be her and calls her Miss Tilly, like, (as Tiffany), "Push, Miss Tilly!" (Normal voice) She is also the Jennifer Tilly who is seen sneaking candy bars and lying to her assistant about keeping her diet. I don't even...

**Michael:** I really truly believe that's full-on satirization of the Hollywood machine. And there's an aspect to me, with Jennifer's performance, which I know you wanted to talk about a little bit, Jordan. I personally think it could be problematic if it wasn't for the fact that Jennifer fuckin' Tilly takes full control and ownership over both characters

**Jordan:** Absolutely

**Michael:** In the sense that she really one hundred percent sinks her teeth into both roles

**Jordan:** There's no hold back

**Michael:** And if it was just some like, Eighties trash bag director that just hired some, like, beautiful woman off the street and said, "Act like a bimbo," you know, it's a big difference. There's a lot of, like, I feel like there had to be have been a lot of conversation and thought between; I mean, Jennifer and Don, just by their social media, are still great friends to this day

**Nay:** God, that picture?

**Michael:** Oh my God, I love

**Jordan:** I've written about Chucky and (Jennifer) retweeted that post. She has, she comes back to the franchise after this, she returns in callbacks

**Michael:** Yeah, she returns in six and seven

**Jordan:** She knows she's like, cared for in this universe and it reminded me of; you have *Ocean's Eight* this year, you have Anne Hathaway that everyone decided they hated several years ago...

**Mark:** She walks away with it

**Jordan:** She stole the movie, is the best part of it...

**Michael:** I love Anne Hathaway

**Nay:** Me too

**Jordan:** In this movie, Jennifer Tilly is playing the exact things you would make fun of; at one point Anne Hathaway has a full mental breakdown while just touching her neck and looking in the mirror and in (*Seed*) you have (Jennifer) comparing herself, (as Jennifer Tilly) "I was nominated for a fucking Oscar!" And she's just pouring out of these tiny dresses she puts herself in. Because she's stacked, not because she is fat, because she is stacked and that is *great*.

**Nay:** And you can be both

**Jordan:** Yeah, and you can be both

**Michael:** So what do you think, Nay. Girl power?

**Nay:** I definitely felt power in my girl

**Michael:** JT?

**Nay:** I don't know why I'm saying that, I literally just didn't have anything to say...

**Michael:** That's fine

**Nay:** To what you said and now I'm trying to make it up

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "You can call me that. It's okay, I don't mind,"

**Michael:** You should host a podcast *just* pretending to be Jennifer Tilly. *Tilly at the Movies*

**Mark:** *Tilly at the Movies*?

**Nay:** "Get Tilly, get Tilly…"

**Jordan:** That's the theme song

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "This week we saw *Infinity War*. It was okay, I guess. I dunno. Not really my speed."

**Jordan:** I love you, Jennifer Tilly

**Mark:** We love you, oh my God

**Michael:** Jordan, we sometimes have a segment called "Girl, no!" Do you have a moment like, "Oh no, shit, they did not do that"?

**Jordan:** I was feeling the microaggressions when (Glen/Glenda) continually addresses his parents with like, Japanese honorifics and there's always the "gong-bong!"

**Mark:** And then (Glen/Glenda) goes into full karate mode

**Jordan:** Yeah, we go into full martial art, yeah, he battles Chucky as like a...

**Michael:** And he's speaking Japanese

**Nay:** Fuck my life

**Jordan:** As a martial arts master, I was just like, "Oh, no. Oh God. Oh girl, no."

**Michael:** Yeah, I was like, *Sixteen Candles* did this twenty years ago

**Mark:** This is racist

**Jordan:** And then it always, the wood flute needed to come in, too

**Michael:** Isn't it crazy? Fourteen years ago, I don't think most people would have batted an eye

**Jordan:** No, of course not

**Nay:** We're moving quickly. We're moving quickly

**Michael:** We are. Thank God

**Jordan:** I remember watching...

**Mark:** Fast 👏moving 👏train 👏 get 👏 on 👏

**Nay: '**Cause social media will hand you that ass

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Nay:** You know? If you try and play a gong now: "Fuck you", viral. And you lost your job. Sorry

**Michael:** Anyone have a stud in this movie?

**Nay:** (scoffs) JT

**Michael:** Oh yeah?

**Mark:** It's JT all the way

**Jordan:** Yeah. The one and only

**Nay:** Tiffany *and* JT, honestly

**Michael:** I was kind of loving the chauffeur. I mean his boyband look from head-to-toe

**Mark:** I'm gay as the day is long, but I mean if Jennifer was like, "Let's cuddle and watch…"

**Brennan:** How would she say it, Mark?

**Mark:** Hmmm?

**Brennan:** No, that's not how would she say it

**Mark:** Oh

**Michael:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Mark, you wanna cuddle with me?"

**Brennan:** He did it! Okay, Nay's turn, Nay's turn!

**Nay:** (scoffs) Oh, God

**Brennan:** Okay, no. Do you want to hear my terrible one so you'll feel less bad?

**Michael:** I wanna hear Mark talk about himself from Jennifer Tilly's...

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "My Netflix queue is really overloaded and I thought maybe..."

**Michael:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "Put on *Ducktales*"

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Tilly) "You know, we could just put on our Snuggies and just sort of eat popcorn"

**Jordan:** Snuggies?!

**Nay:** At the end of that you'd be like, "Hell yeah, JT"

**Mark:** I'd just, I'd be like, "Cancel my week."

**Nay:** That just makes you gayer

**Michael:** Well, yeah. She's so cool It actually does, it actually *does* make you gayer.

**Nay:** Yeah, it does

**Michael:** And she's so cool, she'd put Junior Mints in the popcorn

**Mark:** *Oh, God,* I'd never leave!

**Michael:** So when I worked at *Family Guy* she would come in to record. She's like the nicest, good-natured, loves what she does. Like absolutely drop-dead gorgeous in the sense of her presence ropes you in. She's just like a good human being. She's so great

**Mark:** Nice to hear

**Nay:** I love that

**Mark:** So Nay has a stud… we all agree, it's Jennifer Tilly

**Mark:** Kind of

**Michael:** I mean, that chauffeur

**Mark:** Oh, and John Waters because now and forever

**Nay:** The acid is the stud

**Jordan:** When (Jennifer Tilly) name checks *Bound*. When she's like, "Oh, that's *Bound*, Gina Gershon's fingering me." We needed to explicitly say that as a reason. It's so good

**Michael:** It's really funny. You're just like only a queer person could write this movie

**Nay:** Yeah. Absolutely

**Michael:** You know, those are the moments where like, you just stand up and cheer, "I'm queer, too!"

Producer Brennan actually reached out to Don Mancini about *Seed of Chucky*, so he recorded a little thing on his inspiration and the queer themes of the movie while in Mexico City for a film festival.

**Don:** Well, you know what they say: write what you know. Having deliberately injected a gay sensibility into *Bride of Chucky*, I just couldn't resist going full fag with *Seed*. It seemed, if nothing else, like a surprising thing to do with a mainstream studio horror franchise, and I definitely like surprising people. It was also driven simply by a desire simply to create an interesting character with Glen/Glenda. The movie was a parody of domestic family dramas like *Ordinary People*, so Glen/Glenda's gender binary status provided the basis for all the conflict. And of course I was influenced by *Psycho* and *Dressed to Kill*, thrillers about characters with split personalities where one personality was male, the other female. And you know, over the years I've often heard from LGBT fans who tell me that Glen/Glenda meant a lot to them when they were young, and I'm really gratified by that.

**Jordan:** "Full fag"

**Nay:** Full fag with *Seed*

**Brennan:** That's my Scruff bio… j/k

**Michael:** Do you hear a lot of (Scruff notification sound) on your Scruff account?

**Brennan:** Yeah, that's the noise

**Michael:** I think so, right?

**Nay:** (mockingly) You think so?

**Michael:** Brian and I met on Scruff. I'm not afraid to admit it

**Nay:** That's amazing

**Mark:** That's disgusting!

**Michael:** "You can go to hell!"

**Nay:** Wait, you're gay?

**Michael:** Mark and Josh have been together so long they met in the personal ads

**Mark:** We met in church

**Jordan:** That truly is the old-fashioned way. Among the gay community

**Mark:** It really is

**Nay:** The choir director, yeah

**Mark:** Listen, fifteen years, I mean

**Michael:** Any last thoughts (on *Seed of Chucky*) before we sign off?

**Mark:** We love you, Don!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yes, Don!

**Jordan:** I think it's aged *so* well.

**Michael:** It has

**Jordan:** It is a movie, that, what this movie touches on and what Don so generously provided for us in commentary today; that's not a conversation I've seen in any horror movie, let alone a studio one

**Michael:** Yeah, and it's a rare horror movie to me that feels more important to me now than when I first saw it.

**Mark:** Amen

**Jordan and Nay:** Yeah

**Jordan:** It went *so* completely over my head, like...

**Michael:** Completely over my head

**Jordan:** Like to say it went over my head, to suggest it was in my airspace? I was not even below the airspace

**Michael:** I wasn't in Don's world when he made this movie and I'm kind of in the orbit, now, to appreciate it more, so thank you Don.

**Jordan:** Thank you, Don!

**Michael:** Thank you, Daddy Don

**Mark:** *Suspiria* (2018) is so good it makes being a Mennonite fashion

**Jordan:** She is, she is, "But make it fashion". You're so right about that

## **Previous Episode**

Episode 11: "Different People Shower Differently"

## **Next Episode**

Episode 13: "Live in the Discomfort" (w/ Jen Moorman!)