Episode 39: "The Roughest Trade"

*The gang’s all here, and this week we’re watching 1986’s THE HITCHER!   Michael dreams of Michael Myers, Brennan shares some Hawaiian history, Sam repopulates the Earth, and Nay deepens her White Lady on a Bus hypothesis.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on CHERNOBYL, POSE, and MONSTER PARTY!*

## **Trivia**

**Sam:** "Today we're recording behind the Outpost Cafe between a couple of big rigs and *girl, we are all tied up*."

Topics brought up during the episode: thefriedacinema.org, the live show, 50th anniversary of Stonewall, AIDS Life/Cycle, Nay's fundraiser for Project Q, Michael Simpson (director of *Sleepaway Camp II* and *III*)

## **Shady Summaries**

**Michael:** Should've listened to your Mama

**Nay:** A wild tale of a white person not trusting the police. Or the police not believing a white person

**Sam:** Ooof

**Michael:** Fantasy film? (laughs)

**Nay:** It's like this Bizarro world. But the privilege is still there. I'm like, "Were you even handcuffed back there?" You know?

**Brennan:** Yeah, no, it *so* reminded me of the Zsa Zsa Gabor story we were talking about--

**Nay:** Yes

**Brennan:** In the *Nightmare 3* episode where he keeps pointing a gun at a cop and it's like, (as the cop from *The Hitcher*) "All right, you wild child…"

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** (as the cop from *The Hitcher*) "I see what you're doin'."

**Nay:** (as the cop from *The Hitcher*) "Son," on the radio. "You know what, we're gonna do our best to believe you, son. Just do your best to get here safe."

**Brennan:** C. Thomas Howell picks up a hitchhiker hoping it will keep him awake, and he really gets his money's worth

**Sam:** When a cute guy picks up the world's *creepiest hitchhiker* at four AM, he's somehow surprised that the guy is a murderer

## **Pride Float**

**Sam:** Does this movie get a Pride float?

**Michael and Brennan:** No

**Nay:** No

**Michael:** No float

**Nay:** They have to operate, you know the WeHo Trolley, the free rides, yeah, they just gotta, yeah

**Brennan:** I *do* think it would be fun if Rutger Hauer hitched a ride on a bunch of different floats

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Oh, that's cool

**Nay:** Sure

**Brennan:** What do you think, Sam? I know you're really pulling for this movie

**Sam:** Well, I, when I came in, before I got here my answer was, "No, it doesn't get a Pride float." And then talking about it I'm like, "Oh fuck yeah it does, because this is so queer." And it was queer in a time where it's dangerous to be and it acknowledges that danger so hell yeah. Except I want the Pride float to be Sophia Bush's Ugg boots, and I know it's not connected, but I want her with it

**Michael:** Each half of Jennifer Jason Leigh's body on one and then the other half on the other Ugg?

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Sam:** With streamers coming out instead of blood so it's still cute

**Michael:** (laughs) What did you say, Nay?

**Nay:** I said, "You gross bitch." Oh my God

**Brennan:** No no no, she should be hanging, suspended between the two Ugg boots--

**Michael:** *Ohhhhh!*

**Brennan:** And then gets slowly pulled apart as the parade continues

**Michael:** While "Fuck You Like an Animal" plays?

**Brennan:** (laughing) Oh my God!

**Nay:** Okay, *wow*. *Woooooow*

**Sam:** You're describing my perfect Pride, so (laughs)

**Michael:** My perfect Pride was last Sunday and it was in a record studio with Nay

**Brennan, Sam and Nay:** Awwwwww!!!

**Michael:** (chuckles)

**Sam:** Sorry to intrude

**Brennan:** That was such a fun episode to listen to, you guys

**Nay and Michael:** Awwww!

**Nay:** When we said the "lesbian vest" at the same time?

**Michael:** Oh! The lesbian vest is because we couldn't think of a title and I was like, "*Wait! The lesbian vest!*"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** So good

**Nay:** Thanks for listening

**Michael:** Aw, Julia. There's a lesbian (laughs)

**Nay:** Right. For real

## **Quotes**

**Brennan:** Also, we're recording this on (June) 13th, which is Jason Voorhees's birthday. I'm pretty proud of that, too

**Sam:** Happy birthday Jason

**Brennan:** That's just as important as (the 50th anniversary of Stonewall), I lied. I'm in a weird space right now, everyone. I *skipped a week* and I feel like I have completely lost all my skills

**Michael:** Eh, you're fine

**Brennan:** Okay, cool

**Nay:** Still fine

**Sam:** I don't know. To be decided, but we'll see

**Brennan:** (to Sam) Okay, but welcome back from AIDS Life/Cycle, Sam

**Sam:** Thank you!

**Brennan:** How was that?

**Sam:** Exhausting and fulfilling and it is one of the greatest experiences I've ever had in my life

**Michael:** That's amazing. Jason Blum is here to hear all about it

**Sam:** The *head* of Jason Blum, just watching us, not speaking. A little bit weird, kind of into it. Hi, Daddy… in my head it just flashed through Jason Blum and calling him "Daddy" and seeing that erupt on Twitter, so we'll just… Life/Cycle was incredible. I encourage anyone who is looking for community and especially being part of something, Life/Cycle is like a microcosm of queer community that lasts seven days. So every day at camp there are thousands of people

**Michael:** That's great

**Sam:** And it outnumbers anyone else. I mean, we have allies, they are present of course, but it's like nothing else you'll ever experience. You don't get that in the regular world. Walking around and everybody knows your slang and everybody's so friendly because we're queer and we're family

**Brennan:** Yeah, and you're all there for the same reason

**Sam:** And they're from all over the world. So you don't have to be from L.A. or SAN Francisco to participate, but it's awesome. This year we raised 16.8 million dollars--

**Michael:** *Wow*

**Sam:** For the L.A. LGBT Center and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation. (to Nay) You had a friend who rode

**Nay:** Yeah. Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Did you hear anything about it?

**Nay:** Yeah, some really cool things. I mean, he hurt his knee at the very end, so he couldn't-- he like, literally rode twenty-one miles on his hurt knee and then was like, "I need to stop."

**Michael:** Oh man

**Sam:** I hurt my knee, too, but we're not gonna tell that story

**Nay:** So, yeah, so. I mean, he loved it, of course. He's the baddest bitch at that shit

**Michael:** Is it Nolan?

**Nay:** Yeah, *my baby*! But yeah, he got hurt

**Michael:** Is he okay?

**Nay:** Yeah. He's fine. I'm like, I don't know how people *don't get hurt*?

**Michael:** *Right*?

**Nay:** So…

**Michael:** What's the total trip?

**Nay:** Five hundred and forty-five miles

**Michael:** *Yeah!* I mean, come on!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** So

**Sam:** Last year I rode as a cyclist so I did the five hundred and forty-five miles. This year I went as a roadie, which is like a volunteer, and I feel like on the volunteer side it was just as fulfilling if not moreso. I *think* I'm gonna return as a volunteer

**Michael:** That's great!

**Brennan:** That's beautiful!

**Sam:** And just some quick facts because I think they tie in to later in the episode, but we talk a lot with AIDS Life/Cycle about ending AIDS, but it's really shorthand for a lot of things that this money goes to. It's about treatment, it's about funding prevention, getting people PrEp Truvada which prevents you from getting HIV or giving HIV, and getting it to people who can't afford it because it's about two thousand dollars a month in the US. In Australia it's eight dollars a month. We'll unpack that at a later date

**Nay:** We have a lot of Australian listeners

**Michael:** We do!

**Nay:** Yeah, we looked at the numbers over the weekend. Little side note

**Michael:** Yeah, a lot of Australians

**Sam:** AOC went head-to-head with Gilead recently talking about it. So it takes this kind of stuff to keep our community safe and to keep those numbers down, and it's working

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** So shit like this is *how* we are gonna change the world. If you are unfamiliar with "U equals U" it's undetectable equals untransmittable. What that means is people who are being treated for HIV and have an undetectable status cannot transmit it. Just bringing it up because part of this whole thing is destroying that stigma around HIV

**Nay:** Hell yeah. Bring it up!

**Michael:** Well, it's education

**Sam:** And I don't know *where* people get that education. I got it from going to the LGBT Center. And if you don't have access to that or you're in a state that doesn't support queer centers and things like that, I just wanna make sure that information's out there for people who *don't live in L.A.*

**Nay:** Absolutely

**Sam:** And some people who do

**Brennan:** Yeah! 'Cause you're not gonna be learning this in school either

**Michael:** It's so bizarre you're not

**Brennan:** At least when *I* was in school, when *I was a boy*. I mean, in my health class we learned about HIV/AIDS, but I learned the *very* bottom-line basics

**Michael:** The bare minimum?

**Brennan:** I learned that HIV was different from AIDS, but beyond that there was no talk about how it affected the gay community in the US, there was very little talk about Africa. It was just, "Here's what it is. It exists and they're two things." That's *not enough information*

**Nay:** Absolutely not

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Nay:** *Yeah*. I mean, I grew up being told you could get it from saliva

**Michael:** Same

**Nay:** And I had family who thought that the government was lying and that you couldn't get it from saliva 'cause they didn't wanna scare everybody. And I remember when I first was working here in L.A. and I had a lot of coworkers who were positive. I remember that coming up somehow in a conversation with my family and I remember saying just how much I had learned, and how it was like a privilege to have learned from people and I was grateful that they had taken the time to taught me because I had been so ignorant. Even though I had been to grad school--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Even though technically I was a HIV expert, and I still had some misconceptions, so, you can always learn

**Sam:** When I was a kid, I was told that when two men have sex, they make AIDS

**Nay:** *Ohh*

**Brennan:** *Oh!*

**Michael:** Jesus Christ!

**Sam:** And my grandmother was a nurse and she worked through, you know, the AIDS crisis in the Eighties and was full of misinformation, and she was a medical professional

**Nay:** (softly) *Fuck*

**Sam:** And so, you know, things like that just permeated *my* existence and until, you know, getting older and getting educated, had a lot of misconceptions and so it's important to be talking about this stuff

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** For sure

**Michael:** Well, speaking of what we were just talking about, I watched the season premiere of *Pose*

**Brennan:** *Yeees?*

**Michael:** The show's so great

**Brennan:** *Yes*. One hundred percent. I will add on once you've talked more…

**Michael:** I mean, did you watch the premiere?

**Brennan:** I actually was very behind because I didn't have FX last year, but I watched *all* of the first season on Netflix in the past month, and I saw the premiere

**Michael:** Got it. Yeah.

**Brennan:** (amused) So I'm *very* caught up

**Michael:** Because of the time jump, I feel they had to do a lot of quick stuff, so a lot of it was kind of jarring, how you'd be in one scene and then suddenly you'd be in another and none of it felt connected

**Brennan:** It was a very curious chronological decision

**Michael:** (chuckles) Yeah. But I do love the show. At the end of the episode I was very satisfied with it and look forward to the season kind of settling into itself now--

**Brennan:** It feels like they're setting up something this season

**Michael:** Yeah, a lot of stuff was out of the way and like, (to Nay and Sam) did you guys watch it?

**Nay:** I haven't watched the premiere yet

**Sam:** No, not yet

**Michael:** Okay, yeah, but like the end with Mother and everything, yeah. It's just so great. I watched that, I watched *Chernobyl*. Talk about some scary shit. Have I talked about this here yet?

**Nay:** No

**Sam:** No

**Brennan:** No

**Michael:** It's like the scariest show I've ever seen! (laughs) It's so terrifying. It's a five-episode miniseries on HBO

**Brennan:** So, is it about the lead up, is it about the impact afterwards? Both?

**Michael:** It's about, yeah, it essentially starts *during*, like right after the explosion

**Brennan:** Okay

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Michael:** And then the meltdown. It just goes into *what* they really were faced with and how the Soviet government at the time was essentially covering it up until it broke. It's just so terrifying, though. I literally watched it, Brian and I watched it over three days, which was a mistake 'cause you watch an episode and you need to like…

**Brennan:** Cool off?

**Michael:** Relax, yeah

**Sam:** Oh, wow

**Michael:** But I was watching it, like, I had a pillow I would put over my eyes--

**Nay:** *Oh my God!*

**Brennan:** *Oh, why*

**Michael:** 'Cause I was waiting for people's skin to fall off and stuff and it happens

**Brennan:** So it's got some gore

**Michael:** It's gory, but like, it's not even gory, it's just realistic. It shows *what happened* to the people that were fighting the initial fire and their government was telling them, "It's safe. It's safe." And what happened to the local town that was right nearby where everyone lived

**Brennan:** Pripyat, right?

**Michael:** Yes. Thank you

**Brennan:** I watched *The Chernobyl Diaries*

**Michael:** But Emily Watson is just so good, and she plays a character that's like, they took like, thirty-seven *real people* and melded them into this one character 'cause otherwise you couldn't tell the story with thirty-nine people. And I thought it was pretty amazing. The guy who created it, Craig Mazin, is like a comedy guy, and I think he wrote on *Scary Movie 3*

**Brennan:** One of the best ones

**Michael:** Yeah, it actually is a good movie. But he comes from a very comedic heavy background. The thing I liked about (*Chernobyl*) is it just shows that anybody can do anything as long as you put your mind to it. And the guy that directed the last *Star Wars,* Rian Johnson, is that his name? He tweeted about how Mazin, a few years back, he and him were having dinner and he pitched *Chernobyl*. And (Rian) was like, "That sounds really good!" But in his head he's like, "No way this fuckin' comedy guy's gonna be able to do this." And he's like, "I stand corrected," and publicly praised his friend. But it is, it's terrifying. But it was *so* good

**Sam:** You know how on Twitter a movie will come out of obscurity and people will start praising it and you're like, "Oh, I guess we're into that now." I thought when people were talking about *Chernobyl*, they were talking about *Chernobyl Diaries*--

**Michael:** Oh girl

**Sam:** And I was so excited because I'm a really big Jesse McCartney fan

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's the only movie where instead of a cat jumping out, it's a *bear* jumping out

**Michael:** (to Sam) Yeah, I was thinking about you and that, like, getting your things confused

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** 'Cause we watched the first three episodes of *Dead to Me* and I was laughing like how you thought they were dead people, or that you were wondering if they were gonna be dead people and I was like, "Sam, what were you watching?" (laughs)

**Sam:** I'm pretty sure every episode I've been on I talked about something I was confused about, so that's good to know

**Michael:** But *Dead to Me* is amazing, too. It's very funny

**Sam:** I love it

**Michael:** It's a very funny show. We're three episodes in, so I can't wait to continue that. So I watched a lot of shit in the last week

**Brennan:** Sorry, I'm looking up my notes but I can't find them yet

**Michael:** Nay?

**Nay:** I mean, I'm boring. I'm still watching *Game of Thrones*

**Michael:** Okay. Talk about that dragon bitch

**Nay:** Still in love with Brianne of Tarth

**Brennan:** *Yes!*

**Nay:** Still want her to cut my fucking head off. Same old, same old

**Sam:** Mmmmmm

**Michael:** And then sew it on again so she can cut it off again? (laughs)

**Nay:** For real. I'll bail her ass outta jail (chuckles)

**Sam:** Did anybody watch *Black Mirror* "Striking Vipers"?

**Nay:** *Oh! Yes!*

**Michael:** Mmm-mmm

**Sam:** Hello queer horror

**Nay:** That was so hot

**Sam:** *Oh my God*

**Nay:** That was so fucking hot

**Michael:** I guess I need to watch it?

**Brennan:** Is that the Miley Cyrus one?

**Nay:** No

**Sam:** No. It's the very first episode, too

**Brennan:** Okay

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Bold fucking move, Netflix

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Here it is, front and center

**Nay:** It was (sighs) so hot. Just love it

**Sam:** I'm just gonna dance around it because I just wanna let everybody enjoy that moment when they put it in

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** But I do think--

**Michael:** (chuckling) "Put it in?"

**Brennan:** "It's in"

**Sam:** "It's in. I can feel it."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** They handle identity and relationships in, with such nuance. Especially in a technological age and I *just*, I want to give an entire episode of *this* show to that. I mean, it was very very well-done

**Nay:** Hmmm

**Michael:** Hmmm! Okay

**Brennan:** Ooooh!

**Nay:** Yeah, I think we could totally do that

**Michael:** I need to watch it. That's a good way to go back in, 'cause I got all in *Black Mirror* like a year or two ago

**Nay:** No, you definitely should watch at least-- I know people are shitting on the new season, but definitely watch that episode

**Michael:** Okay

**Nay:** And the only thing I'll say is that it's the only episode of *Black Mirror* I've wanted to *live in*

**Michael:** *Ohhh!*

**Brennan:** Ohhh!

**Sam:** Well, "San Junipero" though?

**Nay:** Because--

**Michael:** I mean, that was great

**Sam:** Not feeling it?

**Nay:** I know I'm supposed to be like, the lesbian lead--

**Michael:** It's okay!

**Nay:** "San Junipero" yeah, for sure, but like, *yes*, I don't *not* wanna live in "San Junipero". *But*, if I could live in this last first episode

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Nay:** So fun. It would be *so fun.* *That's all I'm saying!*

**Sam:** I would also like to add, I saw a really great film on Shudder called *Monster Party*

**Michael:** Oh, God! (laughs)

**Sam:** Start to finish, it was-- no, I'm just kidding. It was total trash

**Michael:** Okay, *good!* I was like, he's gotta be fuckin' with me

**Sam:** No, I saw your face start to turn

**Michael:** I was ready to start throwing stuff at you

**Sam:** The thing is, you know me. I love trash

**Michael:** I mean I love *Ma* 'cause it's trash

**Sam:** But it's gotta be *interesting trash*

**Michael:** Yes

**Sam:** And I was here for the beginning because I was like, "Oh, wow. This is a pretentious aspect ratio." It was like 105::1, you know, like this--

**Michael:** But it just never stopped

**Sam:** No, and then I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe this'll be like *Thoroughbreds*," 'cause it felt like it was trying to be that whole you know… *no. No.*

**Michael:** Agreed. I was really into it; this is the movie I was talking about last week--

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm, that you didn't want to say the name?

**Michael:** That I didn't want to say the title

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Oh, let's read it

**Michael:** Let's read it, yeah. I just. Okay. Watching the movie, I just kept rolling my eyes and then I read an interview with the director, and I'll see if I can find it, 'cause when you read it you're gonna be like, "Holy shit, no wonder this movie is the way it is"

**Sam:** Oooh

**Michael:** I *hate* when, and it's not a knock on *Monster Party* only, a lot of film and TV does this, where like, something *thinks* it's cute as opposed to just *being* cute--

**Sam:** Mmmmm

**Michael:** Or being clever. It's like winking back at you and like, "Aren't we clever?" And you're like, "No. You're not." (laughs) And that's how I felt watching that movie

**Sam:** Yes

**Michael:** What an amazing cast. But every time they would talk about fucking somebody in the ass, completely outta nowhere as a punishment for something, I'm like, "Where the fuck is this coming from?" And then the women were treated horribly. They kill the only Black man--

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Like, *first*

**Sam:** *Immediately*

**Michael:** I'm just like, "*What is this movie?!* Am I missing something?" 'Cause again, I looked online and it has good reviews and stuff

**Sam:** There was a joke about cum dripping out of his ass after being raped in prison--

**Michael:** Yeah, in prison

**Sam:** I thought, "This isn't my kind of humor."

**Nay:** Ooooooo-kay

**Sam:** But yeah, that kind of homophobia sucks me right out of a film

**Michael:** Well, twenty minutes into the movie, I'm like, "Well, it's gotta be a straight director" and then that line happened (chuckling) and I'm like, "It's definitely a straight director!"

**Sam:** Yeah, not my cup of tea

**Sam:** (to Brennan) Did you find your notes?

**Brennan:** I *did* find my notes.

**Michael:** (amused) "Not my cup of tea"

**Brennan:** Okay, so you know when people go on a trip and they bring back souvenirs or whatever

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** I don't have souvenirs for you guys, I'm sorry, I'm a whore

**Michael:** I didn't bring you guys anything back from Paris, remember?

**Brennan:** *But*… that's fair

**Nay:** (to Michael) Oh my God, fuck you! I wanted something!

**(Everyone else laughs)**

**Michael:** (angelic) I brought back a piece of my heart for you, Nay

**Nay:** I already had it

**Michael:** *Ooooh!*

**Sam:** I want one!

**Michael:** You got one

**Sam:** Okay

**Michael:** You all do

**Brennan:** I did spend the last week in Maui with my family

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Which, it was very nice of them to take me there. But I wanted to bring back a little piece of Hawaiian history that I discovered while I was there. Now let me ask you a question. In this room, do we love legends?

**Nay:** Oh. Yeah

**Brennan:** Because legends are great

**Nay:** Yeah. We love legends

**Michael:** Like legends and folklore and stuff like that?

**Sam:** Like Britney Spears?

**Brennan:** Yeah, like Britney Spears

**Sam:** Okay

**Nay:** Done

**Sam:** The *only* example I can think of

**Brennan:** I want to introduce you to Queen Kahu'amanu. She lived from 1738 to 1862. She was one of seventeen wives of King Kame'hamema the First. And she was his favorite because she was very smart and outspoken. In Hawaiian culture at that time, women were allowed to have multiple partners, men were allowed to have multiple partners. Adultery was allowed and even encouraged

**Michael:** *Hmmmm!*

**Brennan:** *But,* Queen Kahu'amanu was *not* allowed to have a lover, because she was the wife of the king

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** So, to spite him, she did take a younger lover, who was then summarily executed

**Sam:** *Oh*

**Brennan:** But she really despised the system that was being run in Hawaii at the time. So basically she could not bear her husband a child, so he had a child *with her sister*

**Michael:** *Mmmm!*

**Brennan:** And she became--

**Michael:** He sounds like a good guy (chuckles)

**Brennan:** *Yeah!* Well, he had seventeen wives, it happens. You run out of options at that point

**Michael:** Yeah. Uh-huh

**Brennan:** But she became the nanny to that child that they brought forth, and she was basically the person who kind of ruled over his upbringing. And when King Kame'hamema eventually died and his son rose to prominence, she was the kind of shadow queen standing behind him and telling him what to do. When that son died at a very young age, she fuckin' stepped in. She became queen of Hawaii

**Michael:** Oooh! Girl, get it

**Brennan:** And she completely dismantled the fucking sexist system that involved women not being able to eat at the same table as men, all of this stuff. And she just kind of rebuilt it from the ground up. I will say this, like, era of in-between confusion did kind of allow an opportunity for the white Christian missionaries to swoop in and do their shit, but we love Quuen Kahu'amanu

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** She is an icon

**Nay:** We stan

**Brennan:** She is a legend. And I just wanted to spread her message

**Michael:** I was waiting for the Brennan connection to like, an obscure movie

**Brennan:** I mean, I just watched season one of *Pose* is what I did, so

**Sam:** If you told me that whole legend was like the next season of *Riverdale*, I'd believe you

**Michael:** *Yeah*

**Brennan:** It should be!

**Sam:** They are just jumping

**Brennan:** Honestly, with the breadth of references that they have, you never know

**Sam:** Oh, totally!

**Brennan:** But I didn't wanna leave Pose quite so quickly. Have you two, Sam and Nay seen season one of *Pose*?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** I have not

**Michael:** Oh, you haven't?

**Sam:** No

**Brennan:** Okay, let me sell you on season one of *Pose*.

**Sam:** *Please!*

**Brennan:** 'Cause I mean it's a show set in the *world* of *Paris is Burning*. The world of ballroom

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** *Mmmmm!*

**Brennan:** The queer POC trans culture that, you know, bloomed in New York because there was nowhere else to be who they were. It's such a *stunning* television show. I'm so sad I missed it the first time around and I'm so happy it's still on the air and we get to talk about it and point people towards it

**Michael:** Yeah, it's so good

**Brennan:** It's a show that is simultaneously about the trials and hardships that come with being a queer person in New York in the *height* of the AIDS crisis, but as much as it deals with these really heavy topics in sometimes very expositional Ryan Murphy ways, it always finds a way to at least end their episodes and their seasons in a place of hope and love--

**Michael:** And happiness, yeah

**Brennan:** Joy

**Michael:** There's a lot of joy on the show

**Brennan:** And it's all about chosen family, and who you surround yourself with. And there is… there is a lot of power in the show to expose people to things that they never would have thought about. Like even, you might, I dunno. I don't wanna prescribe anyone's experience or whatever. But it really is a "walk in my shoes" situation, especially for its trans characters who are portrayed by a *very* talented bevy of actresses who are *just* beyond sensational. But there is a full episode about self-identity versus the way that culture sees you, in which two of the different trans female characters are interacting with their male quote-unquote "straight" partners and they realize that those partners don't see them as women, they see them as trans people or you know, like the magazines, "chicks with dicks" or things like that. And the way that that's *so* dehumanizing and devaluing is a *really* powerful and horrifying show. And again, it's planted in this place of, they do find their culture and community. But it just exposes you to a lot of experiences you might not think about in such examined detail. And it's just *really* interesting, and I can't stop thinking about the show

**Michael:** *Yeah*

**Brennan:** It's really great. And also, MJ Rodriguez is a star. She plays Blanca the house mother

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I love Indiya Moore

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Michael:** (sighs) She's so gorgeous

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And her performance is stunning

**Brennan:** And the breadth of characters that are put on display is a beautiful thing

**Michael:** Yeah. Sam, you'd love it

**Sam:** I will definitely check it out. Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. First season's eight episodes

**Sam:** Too many episodes. Actually cancelled, sorry

**Brennan:** The show also does feature Evan Peters and Kate Mara and James Van der Beek and every time it cuts to them I'm like, "*Please stop*"

**Michael:** I *know*! Get rid of these white people!

**Brennan:** *But!* I *was* thinking about it and I was thinking that these people are doing the show and these other, more unknown actresses a favor because they're barely in the show but they get to have their names in the poster, they get to have the white suburban people who have FX be like, "Maybe I'll check this out. I love *Dawson's Creek*!" Or whatever

**Michael:** "I love Evan Peters," yeah

**Brennan:** And then they get to recede into the background and let these fabulous women do their business

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** And thank you for that. And so far, I have not seen hide nor hair of them in season two and I am very happy about that

**Michael:** I haven't either. I'm assuming they're not gonna be in it

**Brennan:** I think that was a decision that was made very wisely and I think it's being handled well enough in letting us just explore the world

**Michael:** I don't miss 'em (chuckles)

**Brennan:** No! Of course not

**Sam:** Speaking of the 1980s at the *height* of the AIDS crisis, would you like to talk about *The Hitcher*?

**Michael:** Mmm, no. Bye!

**Sam:** Okay, thank you for joining us on *Attack of the Queerwolf!* and we'll see you at our live episode

**Michael:** Of course!

**Sam:** Trailer please

**(The trailer is played)**

**NARRATOR:** …Driving west on a long, lonely highway. Only his dreams for company

**Sam:** (chuckling) *What?*

**JIM:** My Mother told me never to do this!

**Michael:** Your mom was right!

**NARRATOR:** Before many miles, he wishes he'd taken his mom's advice. When Jim Halsey let the Hitcher into his car…

**Michael:** C. Thomas Howell is so cute

**NARRATOR:** He opened the doors of *hell*

**Nay:** Right!

**Sam:** *Dr-ama!*

**Nay:** Not wrong!

**Michael:** I guess that's it

**Sam:** I had no idea the trailer was that

**Michael:** Yeah, me neither

**Sam:** That was incredible

**Brennan:** Nothing but a suitcase and his dreams!

**Michael:** I'm blanking. What was he driving to?

**Brennan:** San Diego

**Michael:** For?

**Nay:** Delivering the car

**Michael:** Yes, delivering the car, right?

**Brennan:** Presumably to get out of Illinois or wherever he's from

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, he's from Chicago, right?

**Nay:** Yeah, Illinois. Heading to California

**Sam:** Look, *The Hitcher* is, I gotta tell you, it's one of my favorites

**Michael:** It's great!

**Nay:** It is good

**Michael:** It's a good movie

**Sam:** I love it. It came out in 1986. And before I jump into anything, I just need to know. Have any of you ever picked up a hitchhiker?

**Brennan:** Hell no!

**Sam:** Or would you?

**Nay:** Not a hitchhiker, but when I was young, my Mom, poor, you know, wild-ass white woman. Sometimes she would see a woman carrying groceries and she would pull over and she would be like, "Can we give you a ride?"

**Michael:** Oh, that's…

**Nay:** And obviously that's *still* not a good idea

**Michael:** Mmmm

**Nay:** But we're still here today to talk Bout it. But never someone on the highway. Never a man, first of all, because DAB hates men. Yeah, so never a man. But if she saw a woman carrying stuff--

**Michael:** (laughing) "DAB hates men"

**Nay:** She does. Raised me right. But my Mom has told me many stories about *her* hitchhiking back in the day

**Brennan:** Oh!

**Sam:** Mmmm!

**Michael:** I've never-- Wow

**Nay:** (sighing) Yeah. But no, never picked up a hitchhiker

**Michael:** I've never picked up anybody, but I know there was plenty of times in college and in my twenties where you'd go to a bar and you'd meet people at the bar and you'd get in their car with them to go to another bar to go back to their house

**Nay:** *Yeah*, I've done that (chortles)

**Michael:** It's kind of like, is it hitchhiking? I mean…

**Sam:** It's like hooking up

**Michael:** I mean, what's the difference?

**Sam:** *True*

**Michael:** The person could just be as crazy as a person on the side of the road

**Brennan:** You're hitchin' a ride on the D

**Michael:** (chuckles) That's true

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Sam:** And if we're talking about the history of hitchhiking--

**Michael:** And I've *definitely* gotten in plenty of cars in the middle of nowhere that were not of people I know

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** And I think that there is something, especially in the 1980s, a little cruisy about hitchhiking

**Michael:** Absolutely!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** There is a history there of dudes pickin' up dudes. So, uh, I have picked up a hitchhiker

**Brennan:** Really?

**Sam:** He was *super hot*. I was on a road trip from San Francisco to L.A.

**Michael:** Were you alone?

**Sam:** I *was* alone. And I was like, "I'm just gonna do it!" So it was scary, so I tweeted that I was picking up a really hot hitchhiker, and if I died, at least know I died doing what I loved

**Michael:** How long did you guys date?

**Sam:** We didn't date, but we did go to a nude beach

**Michael:** Wow!

**Brennan:** *What?*

**Sam:** So it was a fun trip! *The Hitcher*--

**Brennan:** I do wanna say I drove Lyft for awhile and that's *pretty much* like picking up hitchhikers

**Michael:** I guess so, yeah

**Nay:** I did that, too, yeah

**Sam:** It's kind of like, I was watching *The Ted Bundy Tapes*--

**Michael:** It's like curated hitchhiking

**Sam:** I mean, everybody talks about how crazy it is that people were hitchhiking, but I dunno, isn't ridesharing the same diff?

**Brennan:** Well, yeah. Murderers can *own* iPhones. There's no screening process

**Nay:** Murderers do

**Michael:** I think that people think there's no threat because your phone can be tracked, but at that point you're dead, so who cares if they can track your phone

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And you can get a burner

**Sam:** Retweet

**Nay:** There's a lot of stuff out right now about like, "Should we really, should women or femme folks, really, be using Lyft or Uber?" But like, what's the alternative? Because I don't know about any of yours experience but I know that most of the women I talk to and myself included have been uncomfortable in a Lyft. More than once

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** A driver hitting on you, yeah

**Michael:** Every woman I know has told me at least one shit story

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** Definitely. Where you just like, (does a fake nervous giggle) so you don't get killed, but maybe that won't always protect you, but yeah

**Michael:** Do headphones work?

**Nay:** *You know nothing works, Michael*! I told you, you could be throwing up in a bag in the back seat--

**Michael:** Oh that's right

**(Sam and Michael laugh)**

**Nay:** And they'll be like, "Ey, show me."

**Michael:** I don't mean to laugh. "I like your puke."

**Nay:** (laughs) Right!

**Brennan:** Oh yeah. And the *one* time my boyfriend and I took a Lyft to the airport we got picked up by a Trump supporter

**Nay:** Oh lord

**Brennan:** *So*, you just never know

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Are those cheaper? Are they discounted like the--?

**Brennan:** Actually that was our first Lyft with that account so it *was* free, so

**Sam:** Cute

**Michael:** I'm always scared of Lyft drivers. I always go in automatically scared of the person that's driving me

**Sam:** Mmm!

**Michael:** So I give everyone a five, because I'm afraid they'll figure out where I live and come and kill me if I don't. 'Cause that shit's *serious*. Those companies are so shitty to those people

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Michael:** They go below a four-point-six, don't they lose their ability to drive for that company?

**Brennan:** It's like a three-point-nine, but it's still high

**Michael:** Even then, that's still pretty high

**Nay:** I *mean*, what are you doing to get a score that low?

**Michael:** Right. I have only given one "one" in my life, and it was the last car I took. It was the first one I gave. The guy had *awful* BO

**Sam:** Read him

**Michael:** Almost killed me five times 'cause he kept swerving into the other lane. I think he was drunk, honestly, and I asked him to pull over and let me out

**Brennan:** *Ooof*

**Michael:** I was like, "I *have* to give this dude a one."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** That's a real public service

**Michael:** Yeah. And I felt really horrible doing it. Then I got like three emails from Lyft immediately--

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** Being like, "Are you okay? Is there something we need to know?"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And I'm just like, "Delete delete delete!" (laughs)

**Nay:** Oh yeah. I've had some of those rides

**Sam:** So speaking of rides that almost kill you, let me tell you about *The Hitcher*

**Brennan:** Oh, are we here to talk about a movie?

**Sam:** Well, the social, the horror climate that surrounded *The Hitcher* in 1986 is interesting to me

**Michael:** Yeah, please!

**Sam:** Because it's a Tri-Star film, even though they just distributed it, and it's HBO, the last slasher to come out from Tri-Star was *Silent Night, Deadly Night*

**Michael:** Eighty-four

**Sam:** And it was protested out of theaters after two weeks. So the only other horror film, pseudo horror film they did was *Lifeforce* in Eighty-five, it's sci-fi. And so when this film came up, the script for it was like a hundred and ninety pages

**Michael:** Holy shit!

**Brennan:** *Whoa*

**Sam:** Which if you think about it as a minute per page--

**Michael:** Three hours and ten minutes

**Sam:** That's a very long film

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** And it was super graphic and bloody and violent. And so the producers were like, "Well, how can we make this but have it *not* be a slasher film." And that's why *The Hitcher* rides that interesting line between thriller and horror film. It's like a slasher, but we *don't see* what's going on. I dunno. But it still to me is *chilling*

**Michael:** Oh yeah, it's scary

**Sam:** The things, almost the things we *don't* see

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** Well, in the way that *The Terminator* is an action sci-fi film with the structure of a slasher--

**Michael:** That's a slasher movie too

**(Nay laughs)**

**Brennan:** This is a slasher film imitating the structure of *The Terminator*. I mean, to *me* that seems to be the biggest influence it's pulling from. He's this unstoppable force of car chases most of the time. We don't see the blood quite as much, so even though it has all of the ingredients of a slasher film, they're all kind of separated across the plate so you can't see them all together. They're trying to trick you into thinking it's not a slasher movie

**Michael:** Well, I'm sure it's sold as being less slasher-y--

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Than it truly is. It's so funny that you mention *The Terminator*. Have you ever read Abridged Scripts?

**Brennan:** Oh yeah!

**Michael:** They're amazing, they're so funny, but *The Terminator* one, every third line is, "Tell me again how this isn't a slasher movie." (laughs)

**Sam:** Yeah. 'Cause that

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Is this anybody's first time seeing (*The Hitcher*)?

**Nay:** Yep

**Michael:** Oh!

**Sam:** *Yes!* I would love to hear what you think

**Nay:** I mean, it had my attention, which is always a plus for me, 'cause I only had to watch it *one* time

**Michael:** What was it on the phone attention scale?

**Nay:** Um, I mean, like a nine, honestly, out of ten

**Michael:** Oh, wow!

**Sam:** Wow

**Nay:** Yeah. I was paying attention

**Michael:** I love it

**Nay:** Yeah. I definitely (exhales) I mean, there's something really comforting when people do something in horror movies that you wouldn't do because you're like, "Oh, maybe I *am* smart!"

**(Everyone else laughs)**

**Nay:** "Maybe I *will* avoid death!"

**Michael:** (laughing) Oh my God, yeah!

**Nay:** 'Cause you could, you know, not even five minutes into the movie this man is not answering questions. And I feel like, "That's when I'd want to kick him out of the car!" Literally, I looked at the time for when he, I think it was maybe the second question in that he doesn't answer and he just says something else and I'm just like, "No! Hell no!" That's when I would want-- I mean, maybe that would have escalated everything because I would have been like, "You know what, this isn't working out. Imma need you to get out of my car."

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** And that opening scene is *creepy as fuck*

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** *Oooooh*

**Sam:** All that dialogue (to Brennan) which I know you have some of

**Brennan:** Yes. I'll pull it up right now

**Sam:** Starting from the moment he's, look, to me, he is *cruising* John Ryder. It's like, "My Mom told me not to do this," and he is just all smiles at four AM

**Nay:** He-he

**Michael:** So cute

**Sam:** Listen. And he's picking up that hitchhiker and they are going to the nude beach

**(Michael and Nay snicker)**

**Michael:** They're like fucking in the local dumpster

**Nay:** Wait--

**Brennan:** Here we go with this

**JIM:** My Mother told me never to do this

**Sam:** (scoffing) Yeah, girl

**Michael:** (scoffing) Mmm-hmm!

**(Rain is heard on the movie's soundtrack)**

**Michael:** They're wet

**Brennan:** Yeah, there's gonna be some pauses so we can talk

**Michael:** C. Thomas Howell is a babe

**JOHN:** (sneezes)

**JIM:** Bless you

**Sam:** And at this point (John's) sick, which I think is also worth noting

**Brennan:** Wait. What?

**Nay:** The sneezing and stuff

**Sam:** John's sick

**Brennan:** *Oh!* Yeah

**Sam:** John Ryder

**JIM:** Jim Halsey

**JOHN**: John Ryder

**JIM:** So you want me to drop you off somewhere?

**JOHN**: I'm getting your car wet

**Nay:** You gotta get out. You gotta go

**Sam:** Let me out of this car

**JIM:** It's a drive away

**Sam:** Also, rude

**JIM:** Driving to San Diego

**Sam:** The drive away, keep it dry.

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** It's not your car

**JIM:** So where you headed?

**JOHN:** (groans)

**Brennan:** (shudders)

**JOHN:** Got a smoke?

**Nay:** No

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Cancelled

**JIM:** Yeah, sure

**Michael:** Out

**Nay:** Out, you gotta get out

**Sam:** You can hear (Jim)'s still kind of excited about this

**Michael:** Oh yeah, he's thrilled!

**Nay:** Yeah, he is. You're right

**Michael:** He's got an erection for sure

**Nay:** Yeah, dick is hard

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** (as Jim)."I'm gonna get some dick!"

**JIM:** You gonna tell me where you're goin'?

**JOHN:** Yeah. Sure

**Michael:** Still excited

**Nay:** He can't

**Sam:** Let me out

**Nay:** Enough

**JIM:** What're you looking at me like that for?

**Sam:** There it is

**Michael:** (as John) "You're lunch." (chuckles)

**(The clip from the movie ends)**

**Nay:** That's such a hot question

**Sam:** Yeah. "What are you looking at me like that for?"

**Nay:** "What are you looking at me like that for?"

**Sam:** And his response though? What was it?

**Nay:** (chortles)

**Brennan:** (as John) "I'm just looking."

**Sam:** (as John) "I'm just looking."

**Nay:** (chortling) Ooooh

**Michael:** Mmmm

**Nay:** You know, 'cause it was my first time watching and when (Jim) successfully pushes (John) out of the car, I was not expecting that

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** And of course I'm thinking how I most definitely would have stopped and ran over (John) many many many times. Many. And I *always* think that in movies where you know, people hit someone once or stab someone once or run them over one time, I'm like, "No, we need to go fifty."

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** "Fifty to a hundred times."

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** To obliterate--

**Brennan:** Gotta double tap

**Nay:** That person's body

**Michael:** Road pizza

**Nay:** *Yes!* Exactly. You're not even gonna be able to scrape him out of the road by the time I'm done

**Michael:** *Right*. You're just part of the road (laughs)

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Sam:** But (Jim) does Sidney Prescott his way out of the killer's clutches right away, you know what I mean? And then he's on the road. So it feels like a victory

**Michael:** Awww, Sidney

**Sam:** Our girl

**Michael:** Do you think she ever leaves the house still? (chuckles)

**Sam:** Only to pick up hitchhikers

**Michael:** Awwww

**Sam:** While I don't know if--

**Brennan:** (laughing) And just take them home?

**Michael:** And kill them?

**Brennan:** "You live here now."

**Sam:** I don't know if this movie is intentionally queer, but there is a lot of discourse around several queer readings of the film

**Brennan:** I will say that it's queer enough that a lot of straight people picked up on it, even at the time

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Roger Ebert wrote about it, John Kenneth Muir wrote about it. These straight white dudes are like, "There's something gay goin' on here."

**Nay:** You know what's like, just mindblowing, you know, when they stop at the construction site and (John) puts his hand on (Jim's) crotch and the guy is like, "You get put of here, you sweethearts!"

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** A true ally!

**Nay:** Can you, I can't imagine period; well I don't know if he's acting gay or is gay or queer or whatnot. I can't imagine increasing my queer visibility to *get out* of a situation, like (laughs)

**Sam:** He's weaponizing gay panic, though

**Brennan:** Yeah, because the idea that it *might* be sexual makes that, you know, supposedly straight man look away and ignore it

**Sam:** It's like, yeah, get over it

**Nay:** I'm like, "You're not afraid he's just gonna hop in his pickup and follow you?"

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** I just can't imagine like that's the thing I'm gonna do to get out of here. No.

**Brennan:** I mean, I don't think John Ryder really cares about his *survival* in this movie, like he is not thinking in a way to preserve his own life. He's pure anarchistic evil

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** (sotto voce) It's scary!

**Sam:** I think there's a *Black Christmas* (1974) parallel that I like in that moment. Just, those people could have helped (Jim) if they had just been, but that moment--

**Michael:** Looked?

**Sam:** Yeah, as soon as something queer came up they're just not listening. Just like in that film, I love *Black Christmas*

**Michael:** It's a great movie

**Sam:** But to me that's a movie about men not listening to women, and (*The Hitcher*) is a movie about people that can help, *but don't.* And this happens to (Jim) throughout the entire film. And the deeper he goes, the more people abandon him along the way. Which leads me to my reading of it

**Brennan:** Oooh

**Sam:** I've gone back and forth over the years because I do feel like *if* like *Nightmare on Elm Street*, John Ryder represents gayness, that can be a problem. If he represents fear of gayness that needs to be overcome, which I think that it can. That can be something that's a little bit more of a palatable read, but to me, and what's always struck me is that John Ryder is AIDS. To give a little bit of a perspective about 1986, if that's okay--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** So, just timeline of AIDS. 1981, we have the first five diagnosed cases

**Michael:** Right

**Sam:** 1982, we have, it started being called, you know, "gay plague", "gay cancer"... and "GRID, Gay Related Immune Deficiency". And this is just for folks who don't know. I know we've talked about it. Gay panic was in full swing by 1985 when Rock Hudson was the first celebrity to disclose his status and that is *right before* this movie in 1986, where there were over 38,000 known cases. So that's the world that *The Hitcher* emerges in. I think that when it first happened, *The Hitcher* was reviled. People did not *like* this film. And then it gained traction in its repeat plays on HBO over the years. I think there was something a little bit too close to home in it, but that's me kind of projecting. Why I read AIDS onto it is John Ryder comes into contact with Jim, the driver and from that point on, everybody Jim connects with dies. Everybody he tries to have a connection, basically anybody that he touches is doomed. And this is a film about a man who has to accept his doomed fate. In 1986 we didn't have answers. So I don't think that it's necessarily homophobic to look at it that way. But I do think that it is, it's hard not to be in that climate and feel a part of that history connect

**Brennan:** *Yeah!* I mean, the *sheer* nihilism of *The Hitcher*, of, you are just trapped in this almost supernaturally evil situation where it seems like there is absolutely no escape. Death surrounds you. That's not a palatable story, especially for mainstream theater audiences at the time. But that was the story of AIDS where it's, "This is the end for you." At least at that time

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** Before there was, you know, more research and medication and all of that stuff that we talked about at the beginning of the episode. Yeah, no, it's a *bitter*, *dark* film for a bitter, dark passage in history

**Sam:** Especially looking at Jim picking up this rider, who, look, I dunno, maybe it's just me, I think Rutger Hauer's kinda hot. Like he gets in that car and it's like, "Yeah, all right. I might pick you up." You know? And then he's a little bit flirty, and it feels like-- when he, in that performance, he feels *very sexual* to me--

**Brennan:** Because it is!

**Sam:** And (John's) always smiling at (Jim) and waiting for his reaction in the way that you fuckin' hate when that guy across the bar smiles at you and waits for your reaction. You know what I mean?

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** It *feels* like unwanted attention

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** It does to me. And I think that sexual connection also helps solidify that allegory. Now whether or not that's intentional, I don't know. But it's something that I felt watching

**Michael:** Yeah, and there's a little bit of a, there's almost a little bit of a, to me, like it's a reading on bisexuality in a lot of ways too, where if you are a man and kind of dive anywhere towards a man, you're in trouble. Whereas (Jim's) saving grace looks like for most of the movie essentially is gonna be the lone woman in the film

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** *Nash*

**Michael:** Which is Jennifer Jason Leigh, you know, Nash

**Sam:** *Nash*

**Michael:** So there's almost like a read on, I dunno, like, to me I read that as a little bisexual. But the moral is, "Don't even be bisexual. Just make sure you stay on the straight and narrow." But I also look at Ryder and this film, if you take away any of the sexuality, is he's essentially Bruce the shark from *Jaws*, and it's just *Jaws* in a car, you know what I mean? And there's a fun way to look at it like that if you want to look at it with a little less of a social conscious or social commentary type eye and just look at it a little bit more on the surface, and I've always referred to it to some people as just, "*Jaws* in a car."

**Sam:** I love that

**Michael:** Yeah, it's fun! Right?

**Sam:** Your face lit up when he said, "Nash," Nay.

**Michael:** I love (Jennifer Jason Leigh)!

**Sam:** Please tell me, did you love her?

**Nay:** Um, no.

**(Everyone else laughs)**

**Nay:** No

**Michael:** I just love Jennifer Jason Leigh so much!

**Sam:** Or did you hate her

**Nay:** Yes. But I do love Jennifer Jason Leigh

**Michael:** Mmmm

**Nay:** Yeah, no, my face lit up about *Jaws*

**Sam:** *Oh*

**Nay:** I love *Jaws.* "*Jaws* in a car," I'm obsessed with that

**Michael:** It's the best. *Right?*

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Someone should literally call a movie that: "*Jaws* in a car"

**Nay:** That's a different movie. This was *Jaws* in the car a little bit or it could've been

**Michael:** Is that your review?

**Brennan:** I bet C. Thomas Howell wished there had been more jaws *involved* in his transactions, but--

**Nay:** Exactly

**Brennan:** I didn't read (Jim) as being sexually interested or attracted to Nash in any way

**Nay:** No

**Sam:** Same

**Brennan:** She throws herself into his life, but the second they're in bed together he leaves to go take a shower. He does not want to be in contact with Nash, I feel

**Sam:** She straight up asks him if he's queer, in my opinion. She says, "Why did you pick him up?" There's a *pregnant pause* and he says, "I was trying to stay awake," or something along those lines. And then her follow-up is, "Can I lay in bed next to you?"

**Brennan:** Mmmm

**Sam:** Guys! Come on! She wants to fuck him! She's like, "Are you gay?" And he's like, "Mmm, I mean kind of."

**Michael:** He doesn't know

**Sam:** Yeah, figuring it out

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** And she's like, "Cool, let's fuck." That's--

**Brennan:** And I will just say, her uncle is the cook at the diner. So does that make her Niecy Nash?

**Nay:** *Wow*. What the… *wow*

**Brennan:** Mic drop

**Nay:** *Whoa*, *Brennan!*

**Sam:** Well, if they keep listening to this episode, farewell

**Michael:** (laughing) I need to go

**Nay:** That's why Brennan got that review this week that said, "Brennan: 10/10, would bang."

**Michael:** "10/10, would bang."

**Brennan:** I appreciate it. Slide into my DMs, let's see what's up

**Nay:** No, forreal y'all love Brennan, that's real cute

**Michael:** (chuckling) That review was great

**Nay:** (amused) "Would bang"

**Brennan:** Honestly, I wish every podcast was reviewed that way

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** Same. Same. Until the one that says, "Wouldn't bang." And then I'd be devastated (laughs)

**Brennan:** Fair enough

**Nay:** You're like, "Same. It's mutual. Don't worry about it."

**Sam:** So, speaking of Nash

**Brennan:** Yes, please

**Sam:** I would like to talk-- for me, I *did* love her. I thought as an ally, she is leading by example. Because Nay, you were talking about everybody on a bus needs a white lady who's just gonna take charge? Um, *literally* Nash is that white lady on the bus

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Sam:** Here she is. The cops are here and she's gonna pick up that goddamn gun and she's gonna aim it right at 'en, and she knows their first name, Lyle (chuckles)

**Nay:** Lyle

**Sam:** She is here and she is not fucking around. I think we have a clip

**Brennan:** We do. *God,* that was a harsh scene. The cops pull the bus over, they pull C. Thomas Howell out of the bus, the cop is saying, "You got spit on my wrist, I want you to rub it off my wrist."

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Gay

**Brennan:** Because you know, that would make him allowed to--

**Sam:** If he reaches for the gun, he can blow (Jim's) head off

**Brennan:** Ew! It's intense. But here's Nash's reaction to that when she comes out of the bus and points a gun at the cops

**(The clip is played)**

**NASH**: Can't believe you were gonna do what you were gonna do

**LYLE**: (yelling) Don't you know who he is?!?!

**NASH:** You got the wrong man, Lyle

**LYLE**: Like hell we do! Now just settle down…

**NASH:** Don't come any closer

**LYLE:** Hand me that gun

(gunshot, glass shatters)

**Sam:** Anyone else would be dead

**NASH:** (indistinct) you're in enough trouble already

**Nay:** Well, yeah (chortles)

**(Everyone laughs)**

**LYLE:** You just threw your life down the toilet now

**NASH:** When the truth comes down, I'll be just fine

**Sam and Nay:** Dang

**(The clip ends)**

**Sam:** That line, "When the truth comes down, I'll be just fine," to me that is the ultimate ally. She knows she's taking a risk standing up for this person and knowing that in this moment it doesn't read as right, but knowing that the truth is on her side. Going along with the queer reading of it, I mean, she is somebody who is standing up for (Jim) when everybody else has given up

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** That's true

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** So I love her

**Michael:** She's a-- how old is (Jennifer Jason Leigh) in this movie? She's young

**Sam:** I think she's twelve, thirteen. She's a baby

**Michael:** This was like a, soon after-- well I guess no, I guess *Fast Times at Ridgemont High* is like 1982

**Brennan:** Yeah, it was around that time

**Michael:** So--

**Brennan:** And she was also in the slasher movie *Eyes of a Stranger* in Eighty-one--

**Nay:** (softly) Yes

**Brennan:** With Lauren Tewes from *The Love Boat*

**Michael:** *Ooooh!* Brennapedia!

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** And Tom Savini effects. That movie's so… I hesitate to call it good because it's got some very questionable aspects to it, like most early Eighties slasher movies

**Michael:** Yeah. I mean

**Brennan:** It's an interesting movie

**Sam:** So when (Jennifer Jason Leigh) gets tied between two big rigs

**Michael:** Yes

**Brennan:** Yes

**Michael:** Oh my lord

**Nay:** I've been waiting for this

**Sam:** We have to talk about her getting ripped in half

**Michael:** Yeah

**(Michael, Sam and Brennan laugh)**

**Michael:** Into it

**Sam:** Would you have handled that situation any differently? Or do you feel like he was really just, 'cause I--

**Michael:** (John) was gonna kill her

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** He was gonna kill her regardless

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I don't think there was anything you could do at that point. Dude's a fucking shark

**Brennan:** Pull the emergency brake, you know?

**Sam:** Oh!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Do those stop though? Because I drive with my emergency brake on all the time

**Nay:** You have to hit the brake *and* pull the emergency brake

**Sam:** Got it. Okay

**Nay:** Yeah. They *do* work. But… yeah, you can drive with your brake on, you'll be like, "Why is my car running so hard? What's going on?"

**Michael:** Yeah. I don't think you can fully stop it

**Nay:** Yeah, but you have to, even if your brakes are out you have to be activating, right? Isn't that right?

**Michael:** I think so

**Sam:** I appreciate these lessons in how to survive

**Brennan:** Well, because the car wasn't-- oh God, this is just a physics discussion

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Brennan:** But the car wasn't in motion, so if you pull the emergency brake, shoot the hitcher out of the car and the gas pedal's not being *pushed*, I don't know that the car's gonna move, necessarily

**Nay:** Is gonna move anyway, yeah

**Brennan:** 'Cause it was on flat ground

**Michael:** I dunno

**Sam:** If this was a musical, I think my favorite song would be the song that happens between the hitcher and Jim in the car while she's strung up (laughs)

**Michael:** And it would be called "The Emergency Brake"? (laughs)

**Nay:** Really cool BDSM scene

**Michael:** *Mmmmm!*

**Sam:** Mmmm!

**Nay:** There's actually several throughout this movie. I was like, "Hmmm!"

**Brennan:** Making a porn parody of this would be *so easy*

**Michael:** (to Nay) Were you thinking of what's-her-face from *Game of Thrones* ripping you in half? (giggles)

**Nay:** *Oh. My. God*, *Michael* (chuckles) *Wow*. Okay

**Brennan:** Speaking of lines like that, I pulled a clip from the diner scene where Jim is threatening the hitcher with a gun, and the way (Jim) phrases it every single time is *so* questionable (chuckles) Hang on, I'm pulling it up right now

**(The clip is played)**

**JIM:** Don't you move. You stay seated right where you are. (breathing hard)

**Michael:** It sounds like he's masturbating

**JIM:** Or I'll blow your brains through your ass

**Sam:** *I'm* masturbating

**JIM:** So help me, I'll blow you in half

**(The clip ends)**

**Nay:** Mmmkay

**Michael:** Okay

**Brennan:** So, a choice

**Michael:** (Jim) wants to fuck him

**Sam:** Is that the same scene where he also goes on to ask--

**Brennan:** Yeah, do you want that?

**Sam:** Yeah, let's play that clip. Because central question, friends. And, I wanna know what you think

**Brennan:** Okay

**(The clip is played)**

**JIM:** (breathing hard)

**JOHN:** All right. Pull the trigger

**Brennan:** Oh, this part's great too

**JIM:** I will. (shuddering breaths) Oh, I will

**Nay:** Oh!

**Michael:** It sounds like sex

**JOHN:** As soon as you shoot that shit, I'm gonna squeeze mine

**Sam:** They're talking about guns

**Brennan:** Are they?

**JIM:** (on the verge of tears) Why are you doing this to me?

**JOHN:** You're a smart kid. Figure it out

**(The clip ends)**

**Nay:** *Oooo-kay*

**Sam:** "Why are you doing this to me?" "You're a smart kid, you'll figure it out." So why is (the hitcher) doing this to Jim?

**Brennan:** Because he saw *Soul Man*?

**Sam:** I don't know that movie

**Brennan:** It's a C. Thomas Howell movie where he dresses in blackface to get into college

**Sam:** Yikes

**Michael:** (chuckling) Yeah. Very very yikes

**Nay:** Yeah, you've gotta die

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Michael:** I mean there's so many ways to read that. You could read it as the very on the nose version where (the hitcher) is a psycho, so he doesn't give a fuck about telling (Jim) why he's doing anything, so he's just fuckin' with him. Brennan, you were gonna say something?

**Brennan:** I said my piece

**Michael:** Oh, okay

**Brennan:** Nay, do you have a theory?

**Nay:** No. I mean I think it just feels random

**Michael:** And creepy

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** To say that. There's nothing scarier than not knowing why somebody's treating you the way that they're treating you

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Michael:** If it's negative

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** And instead of-- like, you know, that's why that line in *The Strangers* works so well--

**Nay:** Oh my God, yes!

**Michael:** When they say, "Why are you doing this?" And they're like, "Because you were home."

**Sam:** *Yep*

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** If it's vague or if it's just something so minuscule it's much scarier than him launching into, you know--

**Nay:** Totally

**Sam:** A hundred percent agree

**Michael:** And I'm gonna make fun of my own love, but launching into the *Scream* fifteen-minute scary "I'm gonna kill you" monologue

**Brennan:** The *Urban Legend* PowerPoint presentation

**Michael:** Yeah! I love it, but I always laugh at those movies because at the end of the day it's like, you tried to kill everyone like three times throughout the movie and *now* you're pausing to say why?

**Sam:** Right

**Michael:** (chuckles) "The PowerPoint presentation". Like literally *gets out* a fuckin' slide show in *Urban Legend*

**Sam:** Yep

**Brennan:** That movie's so good

**Michael:** (chuckling) It's so good

**Sam:** Brennan, if you were a killer, you'd come with a PowerPoint

**Brennan:** Oh yeah. I come prepared

**Michael:** It works in *Scream* and *Scream 2* because it was those kind of killer monologue things hadn't been done in awhile

**Sam:** Right

**Michael:** And they play into the plot, where in *Urban Legend,* it's just, I know it plays into the plot, but it's just fuckin'-- and she's got a picture

**Sam:** And John Ryder--

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Michael:** It's so great! (sighs)

**Sam:** I mean, John Ryder does say that he wants Jim to stop him, but it almost feels like at that point I don't even believe him that that's the reason. When he says it, it feels like it doesn't even feel like enough. I think there's something more and I think it's like what you were saying, which is where the unknown is much scarier. And drawing a comparison, I can't help but do this with anything queer that happened around this time, but with *Nightmare on Elm Street 2*, where Freddy is trying to take over…

**Michael:** Jesse?

**Sam:** Jesse. And possess him, right? Which is what kind of makes that moment problematic, because it's like once (Freddy) takes over, or he lets the gay take over, he's a villain.

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** John Ryder is, his only goal is to destroy *everything*

**Michael:** That gets in his path

**Sam:** Yes

**Michael:** Yes

**Sam:** And I think that's what makes him such a terrifying villain

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** If you look at it like an AIDS metaphor, there is no reason

**Nay and Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** You know what I mean?

**Sam:** Bingo

**Nay:** Actually. Yeah

**Michael:** AIDS killed so many people, and is still killing people worldwide

**Sam:** Yes

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And it's you know, it doesn't care, it just is

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** Is that, you know what I mean?

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** There's no reason

**Sam:** Yes

**Brennan:** And the thing that's perhaps even scarier about the hitcher is that he doesn't necessarily *want* to kill Jim. He has many opportunities if he wanted him straight-up dead, he could've accomplished that

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** (The hitcher) wants to *just completely* crush his entire world and be deeply ruined and terrorize him

**Nay:** It took so long for the chopper to show up. I'm like, "This is not Los Angeles, okay? Because you'd have five, six choppers right away."

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm (laughs)

**Sam:** Have you seen the remake?

**Michael:** Yes

**Nay:** No

**Brennan:** Not yet

**Sam:** Where the choppers show up to "Closer"?

**Michael:** Yes

**Sam:** "I wanna fuck you like an animal"?

**Brennan:** What?

**Michael:** Nine Inch Nails--

**Sam:** Oh, Bren

**Michael:** They show up to Nine Inch fuckin' Nails in the movie

**Nay:** Oooh

**Sam:** I gotta tell you, it's a pleasure. Give yourself at least that. You don't have to go through the whole thing, give yourself that and then maybe Sophia Bush, which in my head she's wearing Ugg boots with that shotgun

**Michael:** She is!

**Sam:** Yes! Yes!

**Michael:** Yeah! And then Zachary Knighton has the most Bieber-y of Bieber haircuts you've ever seen in your life

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Nay:** *Why haven't I seen this?* Hmmm

**Michael:** It's like the lowest of the low of the Platinum Dune remakes

**Sam:** So *I* love it (laughs)

**Nay:** Yeah, need it. I need it

**Michael:** It's like it's super entertaining because it's fucking terrible. Even the color scheme of it is hard to look at

**Sam:** Opens with All-American Rejects' "Move Along"

**Brennan:** (gasp of delight)

**Nay:** Oh dear God

**Sam:** Listen. I am here for it--

**Brennan:** *Such* a point in time

**Sam:** It's like the remake was like, "Take everything that's queer and make it really straight."

**Michael:** *Yes*

**Sam:** They split the lead character into a heterosexual couple

**Michael:** Yes

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Brennan:** *What*

**Sam:** And *they* go on a road trip

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Oh, I think I *have* seen that

**Michael:** It sucks

**Brennan:** (to Sam and Michael) Have either of you seen *The Hitcher II: I've Been Waiting* with Jake Busey?

**Michael:** Yep. Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** I *have*

**Brennan:** Okay, because I *own* it and I haven't watched it yet. Is it worth spending any amount of time?

**Sam:** Nope

**Michael:** I mean, I can't remember what I even saw-- I know I saw it but I can't even remember a frame of it

**Sam:** Same. I keep telling people it's terrible

**Brennan:** Well, I'll report back

**Michael:** Did you ever watch *Highwaymen*?

**Sam:** No

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Which was made by the same guy that directed *The Hitcher* (1986). It's a movie with Jim Caviezel. It's essentially *The Hitcher* but with two cars

**Sam:** (gasps)

**Brennan:** *Oh*

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** More or less, right? Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** It's like *Joy Ride* is probably a closer comparison

**Sam:** Oh my God. Sold

**Brennan:** I love a roadside thriller

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** *Highwaymen* is pretty good

**Nay:** What was that movie…?

**Brennan:** *Duel*

**Michael:** *Duel* is amazing. *Highwaymen* is great, it was like a movie that I think was kinda dumped. I think it was filmed two years before it came out and for some reason or another it got no play, but it's actually a very serviceable movie. I think Jim Caviezel's the lead in that. What were you gonna say, Nay?

**Nay:** You know, I can't remember the name of this movie. I remember watching this movie, sneaking to watch a movie. And then you know, in Christian fashion was like, "Oh, I need to *confess* to my Mom that I watched this."

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** So that somehow that's gonna make God forgive me

**Michael:** Right

**Nay:** I dunno. I can't really explain how or why, but that's what I had to do. And I just remember telling her that this girl was hitchhiking and then the guy tried to kill her and she somehow got the gun and was like, "Have you asked Jesus into your heart to be your Lord and savior?" And the person's like, "Yes," so she shoots him 'cause it's fine 'cause he's gonna go to heaven

**Michael:** (softly) *What movie is that?*

**Brennan:** Are you sure it's a movie?

**Nay:** Yes! It is a movie

**Michael:** I swear to God, I think I've seen that

**Sam:** I think, uh, Britney Spears's *Crossroads*? Have you seen that?

**Michael:** We should have a Britney Spears tally for Sam (laughs)

**Nay:** For real

**Brennan:** Yeah, like a sitcom tally for Michael

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Nay:** Right. *Married… with Children* tally for Michael

**Sam:** The pitch meeting for the remake of *Crossroads* that I want; if you guys haven't seen it, Britney Spears takes a road trip across the country to meet Kim Cattrall--

**Brennan:** With Zoe Saldana

**Sam:** Uh-huh

**Brennan:** And Taryn Manning

**Sam:** Who's pregnant. Anyways, and they get in a car with a guy who they think is a killer, and it's just never really part of the plot. So here's the pitch. It's a remake, still starring all the same cast except they get in a car with a guy who *is* a killer and everywhere they stop, he murders people. *But* Britney Spears falls in love with him so she helps cover it up

**Michael:** (laughing) Interesting

**Nay:** Oooh, 'cause she would

**Sam:** She would. It breaks my heart

**Nay:** She would

**Michael:** *Crossroads to Crossroads*? That movie sounds really familiar, that you were talking about, Nay.

**Nay:** Maybe I dreamt it. (gasps) Oh my God, I just remembered I meant to tell you during Tea Time what my dream was last night

**Michael:** Okay

**Brennan:** *Okay*

**Sam:** Please

**Nay:** It's the first time I've ever had a dream like this. Now I regularly have nightmares, that's just a thing, like several nights a week, I have some kind of home invasion getaway chase nightmare

**Michael:** God. Ooof

**Nay:** I know. I know. I know. But anyway, last night-- actually I had a sex dream about an Instagram follower who also listens to the show, that's funny

**Brennan:** Oh, you know who you are. Or you don't know

**Nay:** You don't know. I mean, actually, you do know that I think you're hot. But sex dreams don't have anything to do with whether people are hot

**Michael:** You can't help it if people are hot (giggles)

**Nay:** Yeah. So anyway, sex dream about this person. But then it turned into *literally* Michael Myers trying to kill me. Chasing me everywhere. I literally flipped a table on Michael Myers trying to get away

**Michael:** Wow, that's so funny. And terrifying. I used to have a recurring Michael Myers dream

**Nay:** *Whoa*

**Michael:** When I was in my twenties

**Nay:** Oh my *God*

**Michael:** It would be, it would start at my house that I grew up in. I would run to my friend Kara's house, a block and a half away. He would be in her backyard, he would be attacking my father. Kara and I would hide in the bushes. Suddenly my Dad would be gone, Michael would be strolling through the backyard looking for us and then I'd wake up when he was about to stab me

**Nay:** *Shit!*

**Brennan:** *Dude*!

**Michael:** It happened at *least* a dozen times I had that same exact dream

**Nay:** *Yooo*. Y'all tweet at us if you have Michael Myers dreams

**Michael:** *Yeah*. I dunno why Michael Myers. Terrifying

**Brennan:** Have you had any horror-related nightmares, Sam?

**Sam:** Actually I have

**Brennan:** *Okay*. What property are we talking?

**Sam:** Apocalyptic. I have recurring apocalyptic dreams

**Brennan:** Oh

**Sam:** And this week I had one where I had chlamydia . And the *only* person that could drive me to the clinic was my ex-boyfriend. But we're there and then the apocalypse happens and I'm like, "*Fuck*. It's the end of the world *and* I'm stuck at Planned Parenthood." *But*, we kind of rekindled it. And then I woke up and I texted him. I'm sorry, he's not listening, right? But if you are, I'm sorry about that text. *Yeah*

**Nay:** *Yo*, that's nuts because what if, you, *yo*-- you're like, "Shit, I have chlamydia, I gotta get treated," but then the end of the world happens. Do you never get to treat your chlamydia? Are you the only one left and now you have to repopulate the planet? But now everybody has chlamydia

**Brennan:** *Oh God, yeah*

**Sam:** Holy shit!

**Michael:** And then, eventually, wouldn't the chlamydia work itself out?

**Nay:** But then it's the norm

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** It's just like herpes

**Sam:** Friends, I have to say this is my favorite tangent I've *ever* been a part of. I can't believe we just got to talk about that

**Brennan:** This has been beautiful for sure

**Sam:** It's beautiful. Thank you

**Michael:** I used to have zombie dreams a lot, too

**Nay:** Oh. Yeah

**Brennan:** Oh my God. I have zombie stress dreams *all the time*

**Michael:** Yeah. The zombie genre is still the one genre that legitimately scares me when I see a zombie movie. So I used to have one where the zombie invasion would be happening, but my family would be scattered all over the place in the city and they'd be running to find each other, and we could never *all* connect at the same time. But one time I walked, in the dream, we were running by, I was with my sister Nina, and we were running by and it turned out the invasion, the zombie apocalypse happened because the government told people it wasn't zombie-ism, it was this thing you needed. And it was literally zombies chained to a wall and people were walking up with their arms and letting the zombies bite them

**Nay:** (softly) *Oh my God*

**Sam:** Stop giving all your good pitches on the show!

**Michael:** I know! I'm trying to figure out how to make this into a movie

**Sam:** Blumhouse, if you're listening

**Michael:** Sam, I've tried in vain for three years how to make this into a film

**Sam:** I think Jason (Blum's) head just blinked

**Brennan:** To transition back to *The Hitcher*--

**Sam and Brennan:** *Slowly*

**Sam:** Crazy, but yes

**Brennan:** I just wanna say, before we leave the realm of *other* road trip movies, I highly recommend *Road Games* from 1981--

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Brennan:** With Jamie Lee Curtis and Stacy Keach

**Michael:** Yes! With Jamie Lee!

**Sam:** Yes yes yes!

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's a great movie

**Michael:** *Joy Ride,* too. I know we mentioned that, but *Joy Ride* is *amazing*

**Sam:** Oh, I thought you were referencing specifically *Joy Ride **2***, which is trash

**Michael:** Not the sequel. I've never actually seen *Joy Ride 2: Rusty Nail*, is that what it's called?

**Sam:** Yeah, it's garbage. *Joy Ride 3* even more garbage. Watch them back-to-back and then kill yourself

**Michael:** I love *Joy Ride*

**Sam:** Ooop! Those aren't fun jokes. Erased!

**Michael:** I *love Joy Ride*

**Nay:** I do too

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** But that's why I thought, when you take away Paul Walker's naked body…

**Brennan:** You have Steve Zahn's naked body, which is fine. It's good

**Sam:** No, that's true, but I mean-- and Leelee, oh my God, Leelee Sobieski

**Nay:** Leelee!

**Michael:** That's a great movie, Leelee Sobieski

**Sam:** Rest in peace that career 'cause I want her back

**Brennan:** *Oh!* I thought you were gonna say she died

**Michael:** Oh!

**Nay:** Oh my God, I got so upset. I thought you were gonna say she died

**Michael:** I was like, "Did I miss this? Oh, her career."

**Nay:** No, Leelee

**Sam:** *No,* I want her in everything. But once you take away all those fun aspects the sequels leave nothing. It's just not worth it

**Sam:** Back to *The Hitcher*

**Brennan:** Yes. Heard of it

**Sam:** Something that really interests me in this film, that kind of interests me about vampire films of the 1990s, is that idea that once you give up and go over to the other side, there is a freedom in knowing that you are doomed. So if you notice, I dunno, Jim makes different choices with the police for example. He, at first, we see him be, he's very tentative, he follows the rules. And then at one point he's just like, "Fuck the rules." And that gets more and more once he accepts that he's probably *not* gonna be okay. There's probably not really a way out of this scenario. And I think that ultimately he finds a sense of freedom in his doomed fate, if that--

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Sam:** I dunno. It's kind of dark, but I think there is a freedom in knowing that he's accepted himself

**Michael:** Yeah, and I think there's gotta be a free way around that

**Brennan:** It strips away all the norms

**Michael:** Well and it makes the *fear*, which is probably the hardest part of it, goes away

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And you're just like, "Fuck this."

**Nay:** Get your priorities together

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** (Jim) empowers himself enough to face his fear *directly*. The thing that's been tormenting him all along. So to me, that makes this a *positive* ending. But I was curious how *you* received the ending

**Brennan:** It's almost postcoital, with just him sitting there smoking a cigarette

**Michael:** Yeah. That's a good way to put it

**Sam:** Mmmm

**Brennan:** And it's *very* low-key for an ending for this type of movie. It's so reflective. I think there's something in what you were saying, it opens him up to this *horrible*, exciting world. Look, John Ryder is the roughest trade

**Sam:** *Mmmmm*

**Brennan:** It's really opened up (Jim's) world view into all these possibilities. And now he's just in the afterglow of it, thinking it over and we don't know where he's gonna land, but he's in a reflective space now, of like, he can start to sort out what's been happening to him

**Sam:** I like that

**Michael:** I like that too

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I just really wanted his cigarette… it is a very subdued ending in a lot of ways. But I think for the audience and you're supposed to be put in his shoes like you've just been through the wringer, so here's a moment of peace

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** You know, you don't need a big, exciting, happy-- sometimes you just need to sit and smoke that cig

**Brennan:** Well yeah, the movie's unrelenting

**Michael:** It is!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** It does not stop!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Where does (*The Hitcher*) fall short? We talked a lot of praise, so I'm curious

**Brennan:** The character of Jim, we know nothing about him. I find him so uninteresting as a lead character. Whenever we're spending time with *just* him, I'm like, "I don't know what you want, I don't know why I should care about you."

**Sam:** "Are you a top or a bottom?"

**Brennan:** Exactly

**Sam:** Right

**Michael:** There's not a lot of info on who he is or what he's even fighting for, y'know?

**Brennan:** *Yeah*. We don't know what he's leaving or where he's going

**Michael:** The car has a bigger backstory than he does (chuckles)

**Nay:** *Yeah!*

**Michael:** But again, I almost think it's like a glimpse into someone's life for a day and he's just going through something so heavy and traumatic and violent that maybe the purpose isn't to give you much info on this person other than "Here's this window that we're letting you in."

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's a fairy tale, it's Little Red Riding Hood, 'cause we don't know anything about her other than where she's going

**Michael:** And it's a fantasy 'cause it's a white person not being killed, er, not being helped by a cop. (To Nay) What did you say in the beginning?

**Nay:** Just not being believed by the cops, yeah

**Brennan:** But I will say by the end of the movie I'm pretty sure he's vers, so that should answer your question, Sam

**Sam:** I *agree*!

**Nay:** Yeah. Which is the gayest of all

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** (laughs) I love that

**Sam:** He's unlocked the highest achievement

**Michael:** Yeah, he's at the bonus level

**Sam:** Mmmm. I wanna watch the movie… nevermind

**Michael:** I wanna watch it again now

**Nay:** You can. I watched it on YouTube for free

**Michael:** It is!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** There's several links on YouTube you can watch for free

**Sam:** Why is this movie not on Blu-ray with a good transfer?

**Michael:** No idea

**Sam:** It is the worst transfer

**Brennan:** There is some *weird* stuff that HBO is doing

**Sam:** It's garbage! And it's just like, "How? *How is the one release we got*?"

**Brennan:** They're probably pullin' some shit, HBO is, with *The Hitcher*

**Michael:** It's pretty amazing when you see some movies and you wanna watch a movie and they aren't available anywhere

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** And it's usually a title like *The Hitcher* or something known

**Sam:** This movie has a remake out there! I mean, with Sophia Bush! (softly) Sophia Bush, I love her. (regular voice) There's a remake out there, you know, so how does it not exist in a re-release?

**Michael:** We had this with another movie we were gonna watch, that it had a remake and you could only find the remake, and I can't remember what it was. But you couldn't find the movie anywhere. I think we had to watch the movie on YouTube

**Brennan:** Anyway, *The Hitcher*. Did we do it? I think we did

**Nay:** We did

**Michael:** I think we did

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Oh, that scene with the police dog wandering through the police station where everyone's been murdered--

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** That's very Wes Craven, very spooky nightmare imagery. I like that a lot

**Nay:** That was spooky.  Yeah

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I miss Wes Craven

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Speaking of nightmare, when (Jim) has his actual nightmare?

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Sam:** The nightmare's not about the hitcher, any of the violence (Jim) has seen. The nightmare's about letting (the hitcher) into the car. And I just wanna leave that as the note

**Brennan:** Ooooh

**Sam:** Because to him, the choice that he made to let this guy in, that's what's haunting him

**Nay:** As it should

**(Everyone else laughs)**

**Nay:** *It should*

## **Next Episode**

Episode 40: LIVE: "That's Not Your Comet"