Episode 9

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**Episode 9** is the ninth episode of the first season and the 9th overall episode of **Mindhunter**.

## Short Summary

Holden's methods during a disturbing interview with mass murderer Richard Speck create dissension among the team and kick off an internal FBI probe.

## Full Summary

**Park City, Kansas**

The ADT serviceman sits at a table with a glass and waits. He hears a car outside and peeks out through the blinds. He then cleans his glass and waits.

Holden and Bill look at clippings about Richard Speck. Holden followed the case as it was emerging and Bill says Nancy didn't sleep for a week. She'd just started nursing school and he killed nurses. There's an interview with Speck in the paper and Bill says they should have saved themselves the trip and used that instead. Holden says he lied in that interview, but Bill reminds him that Speck will probably lie to them as well. Holden wonders how the interviewer got him to talk and Bill says he probably kissed his ass. He called Speck a romantic figure. He's as bad as Holden. Holden's shocked that Bill would turn out the chance to meet Richard Speck. He's almost as famous as Manson. Bill says maybe he'll give Holden an autograph and Holden asks for confirmation that that would be inappropriate.

**Joliet, Illinois**

Holden and Bill arrive at the prison, where they surrender their guns and sign in. They meet Deputy Warden Armstrong inside the gates. As he leads them in, he talks about the FBI's psychology department painting that prison pink because it was supposed to calm the inmates. The inmates ate it off the bars before they could check. As they walk past other cells, Bill and Holden say they usually prefer to come in quietly so their interviewees don't appear to be snitches. Armstrong says they pulled him to toss his cell, something they do twice a month, so it looked like business as usual. Armstrong shows them photos he got from his groupies that were removed from his cell. He has hundreds of groupies, which keeps the whole prison stocked with smut. They watch Speck yell expletives at the guards as they strip his cell.

As he's put in the room, Speck says he won't talk to the feds, using the same strong language he did with the guards. Despite this, Bill manages to get Speck to sit down. Holden explains their work to him. Speck thinks he's different from their other interviewees, saying the others are crazy. They then notice he's holding a bird. It had a broken wing and he fed it through an eyedropper. Bill starts to ask him about his crimes, but he stays silent, so Holden asks to see his tattoo, which he's read about. Holden has to roll up Speck's sleeve, which reveals a tattoo that says, "Born To RAISE HELL." Bill again asks about the crimes, but Speck says nothing. So Holden leans over and says he has to ask what gave Speck the right to take "eight ripe cunts" out of the world. Holden asks if he ever thought he was depriving the rest of them. Speck starts to laugh and says Holden's crazy. Holden asks how he even did it, eight women in one day. Speck says he didn't fuck all of them, just one. He could have fucked all of them, but he didn't because they kept coming. When they came home, he put them in rooms and tied them up. Once he killed one, he had to kill all of them and he killed the first one because she was crying and loud. Holden reminds him that he told someone that she spat in his eye and could pick him out of a lineup. Speck says he just wants to kick back with his heroin and hooch. He has his sources for them. He made his own still and kept it in a guards' desk. Holden asks if the spitting thing is true and Speck says the girl got after him. She listened to him, but he killed her because he wanted to. He choked her and it took forever. He then says he stabbed the others because it was faster. He lied to them and said he was just going to rob them, not kill them. One woman survived by hiding under a bed. He lost count and missed her. Speck says he never thought about why he did it. Holden asks if he thought about it when he tried to kill himself. Speck denies having ever done that. Speck says the slashes on his wrist came from a fight and he killed the guy who did it. It wasn't in the papers because no one cares. He claims not to have felt anything when it happened. He still feels nothing. Holden asks if he's sure he didn't feel bad about those girls when he slashed his wrists. He again denies having done that. Holden suggests that maybe he was feeling sad for himself instead. Speck gets angry and throws his bird into the fan while he says those "cunts" died because it just wasn't their night.

Holden and Bill are disturbed as they leave the prison. Holden admits that he actually briefly felt sorry for him. He'd like to video tape the interviews, saying audio won't do it justice. Bill stays silent.

On the plane, Bill suggests to Holden that he might want to lose the tape because of the language he used. Holden doesn't see anything wrong with it. Bill says Wendy won't like it either. He defended what Holden said to Brudos because it got them something useful. He can handle it when their subjects are informative. He says Speck isn't worth their time. He doesn't think they learned anything from him, but Holden disagrees. Bill says again there's no shame in losing the tape.

Holden looks into the laundromat and sees Debbie washing her clothes. She looks over and sees Holden, so he enters.

Gregg is transcribing and Holden goes to look at his work. He says there are parts of the interview that may be best left off the permanent record. He shows Gregg the portion he means. Gregg pulls out another paper and types that there was an audio malfunction.

Wendy reviews the transcript and notes that he admitted to raping just one woman. She wonders what brought it up. Holden lies and says he asks how he managed to have sex with all those nurses. Wendy believes he raped her because she was just there. She gives her assessment of the murders. Holden says he bragged a lot, even trying to make his suicide attempt look like a bar fight. Gregg mentions the tattoo and Wendy says it would be interesting to know how old he was when he got that tattoo because that was a conscience decision. Holden says they didn't get much history. The bird in the fan kind of ended things for them. Wendy says that moment was classic Speck, as they'd just suggested he was a coward and he had to prove he wasn't. Gregg points out that he separated from the other subjects, saying they're crazy. Bill asks if they learned anything new and Wendy says they learned he had no idea what he was going to do that night. Bill says they already knew that from the evidence. Wendy says hearing him say it is extremely valuable. They need terminology to separate Speck from Kemper. Kemper hunted while Speck just happened upon his victims. Charles Whitman is similar to Speck. He's not a sequence killer. Holden says he was on a spree. Bill says spree is good for Speck or Whitman, but he doesn't like sequence for someone like Kemper. Holden says it should feel like a long story, continually updated. Holden suggests serial. Wendy wants to see if that'll stick.

Debbie says it'll be at least six more years for her to finish schooling as she goes through Holden's cabinet and finds very little. She says she'll be 30 before she gets her PhD, but Holden is still impressed. She wonders who she's trying to impress. Holden says he thought she loved it. She says not everyone just falls feet-first into their perfect career like he did. Holden gets a call. Mrs. Wade, Roger's wife, is there to see him. Holden has her sent up and goes out to the hall to meet her.

She tells Holden that Roger's been fired and can never work at a school in their county again because of how it happened. She says Holden's young to be ruining people's lives. They have a daughter in high school who makes moving impossible. Roger's been looking for work all over, but no one wants him near children. Holden says he had nothing to do with Roger being fired. Mrs. Wade says she heard he told the superintendent that Roger might be a pedophile. He says the teachers started it. Roger was going against the wishes of parents and faculty. He was given every opportunity to stop. Mrs. Wade says he did nothing wrong. She says she doesn't even know her husband anymore. He doesn't sleep. He's almost 50. They have three children. They were respected in the community. Now people who've known them for years ignore them. Someone spray-painted "kiddie fucker" on their driveway. Debbie asks if she wants to come inside. Mrs. Wade says she's young as well and asks if she knows who she's married to. Debbie says they're not married and Mrs. Wade says there's still time. Mrs. Wade gets on the elevator and leaves. Debbie asks Holden what he did and he says he didn't do anything.

Wendy gets home and immediately goes to the basement. She finds the can of tuna with ants in it. She drops it and backs away from it.

Gregg prints crime scene photos and hands them to Bill. They came in from Atlanta. It's a girl who was raped and murdered after she got off the school bus. Bill asks Gregg to get more information.

Gregg tells Holden about the case. Lisa Dawn Porter was a majorette. She was a good girl, a virgin. She was disheveled when she was found, her buttons misaligned. Holden suggests she undressed when the unsub raped her and got dressed again in a hurry. Either he allowed her to dress or encouraged it. She was found with a coat over her face. He may have placed over her face because he was ashamed. It might be his first murder, so he might be young, a teenager. Strangling takes strength, though, so he's probably older, mid- to late-20s. She was caught between the bus and home, so he probably knew when she was coming. He's probably from the area because the place where she was found is a known make-out spot. He probably planned the kidnapping and rape, but maybe not the murder. He didn't try to hide her or the murder weapon. He didn't plan the murder and may even feel bad about it. Gregg wants to get back to the police about what they've figured out.

**Adairsville, Georgia**

Gordon Chambers points out to them where Lisa was dropped off. It's not far from her house. Her mother was home and didn't see or hear anything, so the killer probably picked her up on the road. The police haven't found any red flags in her family or friends so far. She was popular. Her majorette uniform may have been what caught his eye. He had to have been watching her. Bill notices the farmland on the other side of the road and says maybe he was a seasonal worker. They wonder if he thought of it as a date because of where she was found. It may not be his first rape, though, so he asks Chambers to look into records in nearby counties. Bill notices the trees have been cleared around the powerlines and wonders how often that happens. Chambers says it doesn't happen often. It's fresh, so a crew must have bene out there.

Chambers gets off the phone and tells Holden and Bill about a man who was recently questioned about the rape of a 13 year old girl who worked for a tree-limbing service. He spent a week on the Porters' street. Darrell Gene Devier is his name. He's a high school drop out who went AWOL with the Army. He was married and divorced twice and lives with his first ex-wife. They talk about how he may have picked Lisa and then raped and murdered her. Chambers says they'll bring him in for a polygraph, but Bill doesn't recommend that, saying the outcome depends on the quality of the questions. If he's a sociopath, he doesn't registered emotions the way others do. He had the confidence to kill a child and if he beats a polygraph, he'll think he's Superman.

Shepard thanks Wendy for coming to his office. He tells her about the Office of Professional Responsibility. They look into allegations of misconduct. They're considering investigating the BSU for a civil rights violation. Wendy asks if it's about Brudos, but Shepard says it's about Speck. He was jumped after his meeting with Holden and Bill and claims they made a public show of his meeting with the FBI. Wendy says that's not her purview, but Shepard says Speck also claimed Holden was fucking with his head. Shepard asks her about the format for evaluating the subjects. She says there's a script and a questionnaire, but they don't always stick to it. She brought up Brudos because they used a shoe to get a reaction out of him. She would call it bad improvisation. Shepard's not worried about Speck's complaints, but he says OPR justifies its worth by finding dirt and he wants to make sure there's nothing there to find. Wendy can't think of anything. He asks her to tell the boys about the investigation and to bring everything Speck-related. Wendy says she doesn't want to be their boss. He says he'll be their boss and she can be his messenger.

Bill is angry about Speck's complaints. He says the prison didn't do anything he asked of them. Wendy says it sounds like just a formality with OPR and says to take everything they have, including the tape. Holden tells Gregg he's coming with them. Gregg goes to get the tape, but Holden says the transcript is fine. They gather everything and leave. Once they're gone, Wendy, who heard what Holden said about the tape, goes out to get the tape. She puts it in the player and plays it.

OPR talks to Bill, Holden, and Gregg about their work at the BSU. Bill shows them the requests he made of the prison, which they ignored. Peter Dean then asks Holden specifically about his actions. Holden says he was slightly aggressive and tried to speak Speck's language. They have a transcript of the interview, which Gregg hands over. When asked about the tape, they say they reuse them, so it was taped over. John Boylen says he recommends they don't do that in the future. They also hand over their notes on the interview. Once the recording of their interview is stopped, Boylen calls Speck a shit stain and they all laugh about it.

Holden, Bill, and Gregg are back in the basement. Gregg says he sweat through his shirt. They talk about destroying the tape and Holden asks where it is. Gregg says it's in his desk and Holden says to give it to him. Gregg says it makes him nervous. They go back into their office to find Shepard listening to the tape. Shepard asks them what they told OPR and Holden says there was nothing there. Gregg says they gave over a transcript. Shepard is angry. Wendy brings up the language Holden used and asks if he had Gregg redact it. He must have known it was sensitive. Holden says it's sensitive for some people. Wendy knows he means her. Shepard doesn't like it either. Holden says they're talking to serial killers. They won't like everything. Shepard says everything they do is subject to public record. Holden doesn't have a problem with that and says he would have left it as-is. Holden says there's no procedural rule book for how to talk to their subjects. Wendy reminds him of the questionnaire, but Holden says it doesn't always work. Wendy says he hasn't let it work. He was in there less than three minutes when he said what he did. Holden says that's when he admitted to raping only one woman. Holden tries to justify what he did to get Speck talking, but Shepard disagrees. Holden say they used their work to identify a murdered in Georgia. It's not theoretical anymore. Wendy says their board is mostly background research, not a result of the interviews. Holden says what they do all comes tougher. Wendy says it could jeopardize everything for them. Shepard asks what happened to the interview and Gregg says he outright lied in the interview about the Speck tape being erased. He gave them the redacted transcript. They don't know about the "eight ripe cunts" and Holden says they don't care. They're all in on a cover up. Gregg says he can't be in on it, but Shepard reminds him that he told OPR there was no tape. Holden says they won't know about the tape unless someone says something, so he doesn't want to say anything. Wendy disagrees. She wants them to be transparent. Shepard says being caught in a lie would be very bad. Wendy wants them to go back and tell the truth. Shepard's not so sure, but Bill comes back in and says to leave it. He tells them to burn the tape. OPR doesn't care about Speck. No one does. It can die right there. Shepard says they won't turn in the tape or speak about it further. They'll protect the unit. He says he's never before been put in the position to lie to the Bureau and he resents it, so going forward, they'll establish clear guidelines for the interviews and adhere to them. He never wants to listen to a tape like that again. He leaves. Wendy goes into her office and shuts the door, as does Bill.

After Holden leaves for the night, Gregg pulls out an envelope and addresses it to the OPR. He puts the Speck tape inside and seals it. Then he takes it with him as he leaves.

## Cast

* Holden Ford
* Bill Tench
* Debbie Mitford
* Wendy Carr
* Robert Shepard
* Gregg Smith
* Deputy Warden Armstrong
* Richard Speck
* Gordon Chambers
* Mrs. Wade
* John Boylen
* Peter Dean
* ADT Serviceman Dennis Rader
* Prison Guard - Reception 2
1/14
### Main Cast

* Jonathan Groff as Holden Ford
* Holt McCallany as Bill Tench
* Hannah Gross as Debbie Mitford
* Anna Torv as Wendy Carr
* Cotter Smith as Unit Chief Shepard

### Also Starring

* Joe Tuttle as Gregg Smith
* Christopher Mann as Armstrong
* Jack Erdie as Richard Speck
* Duke Lafoon as Detective Chambers
* Enid Graham as Mrs. Wade
* George Sheffey as John Boylen
* Michael Park as Peter Dean

### Other Cast

* Sonny Valicenti as ADT Serviceman
* Greg Harpold as Prison Guard - Reception #2

## Music

 "I'm Not Lisa"
 "I Wouldn't Want to Be Like You"