Episode 22: ”I Had a Plastic Yeast Infection” (w/ Matt McConkey & Dave Holmes!)

*It’s a queer podcast crossover this week! The Queerwolves are joined by Matt McConkey and Dave Holmes of the Homophilia podcast to discuss the bananapants 1993 erotic thriller SLIVER, starring Sharon Stones and at least one Baldwin, we can’t tell which.   Nay assesses the real estate, Mark finds the building a wee bit phallic, Michael has a flashback to how Sharon Stone shaped his childhood, and we all beg for better representation of bacterial vaginosis.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on FREE SOLO, PSYCHO II and III, RUSSIAN DOLL, and Jennifer Aniston.*

## **Trivia**

"Tonight we come to you in our best cameo chokes and severe bobs from Manhattan's Sliver Building, where we just had weepy character development sex with our pervy landlord. Hi! By now you know the drill around here. Central air conditioning, an absolutely terrific kitchen and a queer read of your favourite scary movies and thrillers. But guys, this week some new tenants moved into our sexy, *sexy* building. So let's be good neighbors and give them a warm Sliver welcome by breaking into their apartments with a telescope and hugging them with our legs." Mark adds "Sharon Stone" to his roster of impressions. First regular episode to not have Shady Summaries for the movie discussed.

Topics brought up during the episode: Homophilia, *Heather*s TV, *Bajillion Dollar Properties*, Pop! TV, Party of One, NPR's ten favorite pop culture personalities, Editor-at-large for Esquire,

## **Tea Time**

**Michael:** *Psycho II* and *Psycho III*

**Michael:** During the rainy weekend, for some reason when it rains 'cause it doesn't rain much here, I always get in a *deep* slasher dive

**Mark:** *Free Solo*

**Nay:** All of *Russian Doll* (season one)

**Dave:** *Night Flight* app on AppleTV, *Fridays* (via the Shout! Factory AppleTV app)

**Matt:** Being the number-one Faniston

**Brennan:** *La Llorona* (1960)

## **Pride Float**

**Mark:** Okay, so. With all that we've discussed, with everything that we've been through, you guys, does *Sliver* get a Pride float?

**Nay:** No

**Dave:** Hmmm

**Mark:** Well, there you have it

**Matt:** It's a thinker

**Nay:** They can throw a party, they can throw like an afterparty with a huge tub…

**Michael:** Tub is great

**Nay:** With people cumming in it, I guess

**Mark:** Jesus!

**Nay:** Well, I mean that's what, they either cum or die in the tub in this movie, like, which one are you gonna pick?

**Matt:** I don't think I need a Pride float, but I would like at Universal Hollywood Horror Nights or something, if one of the houses was a *Silver-*theme?

**(gasps of delight from the others)**

**Michael:** Good idea!

**Brennan:** Yes!

**Mark:** Gay. Rights.

**Matt:** Just like a scared and horny, y'know...

**Michael:** That Jennifer Aniston picture…

**Dave:** Yeah. William Baldwin is gonna ***pop out*** from behind a column..

**Michael:** Computer?

**Dave:** Yeah, and just fuck the shit out of you

**Michael:** I'm good! Fastpass? I'm in

**Nay:** Oh, I'd get so lost

**Mark:** And then, there should be like a non-union actor who plays Gus, the NYU professor who just follows you around. (as Gus) "I'm not a dirty old man, I swear!" (normal voice) And you're like, "Okay, thanks. Thanks."

**Nay:** Oh. My. God.

**Michael:** I kind of assumed he was gay, too

**Nay:** Oh?

**Mark:** Really?

**Matt:** I think that's what we were being…

**Dave:** We were getting that energy

**Michael:** Yeah

**Matt:** He was like, "We were pals." I'm like, "Okay, I get it."

**Mark:** "All right, Gus."

**Dave:** I don't think it warrants a float, but I *do* think that there should be a monthly, not even a weekly bar night somewhere where the music is, you know, not just necessarily the soundtrack, but that neat, that Massive Attack tricky whatever beat, and some wailing. Because honestly in gay bars it was either that or CeCe Peniston at that time

**Matt:** Right

**Nay:** Yes!

**Mark:** And if you show up with a severe bob and the choker, you're dressed like Donna Tartt basically, you get like you drink for free all night

**Dave:** Oh, yeah!

## **Quotes**

**Matt:** I didn't know that Dave was a "Top Ten Favorite Personality". I feel like…

**Dave:** It was *years* ago, but I'll still dine out on it forever. It stays in the bio.

**Nay:** Yeah

**Matt:** I feel proud of you for that. That's one accolade I wasn't aware of

**Michael:** That's a meal you *always* eat

**Dave:** Oh yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah.

**Mark:** When you guys picked this movie we were like (gasps). Kismet. It's fate

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Gay gasp

**Matt:** Everybody grew up on it, except for Brendan

**Brennan:** Brennan, and… that's correct

**Matt:** Right?

**Mark, Michael, Nay, Dave:** Yeah

**Matt:** Everybody else

**Mark:** Brennan was a virgin

**Dave:** I saw it at a transformative time

**Nay:** I literally grew my clit on it

**Brennan:** Oh my God!

**Matt:** Wow

**Brennan:** Wow, okay.

**Michael:** Yikes!

**Nay:** I mean…

**Brennan:** That's true

**Mark:** We're just gonna kick the door down today

**Dave:** Yeah.

**Dave:** What year did (*Sliver*) come out? Was it ninety-three or ninety-four?

**Michael, Mark, Matt:** Ninety-three

**Dave:** Okay, so I was twenty-one or twenty-two. So I didn't grow up on it, but I did, it aged me

**Matt:** And did you see it in a theater?

**Dave:** Nnnno-- *Did* I see it in a theater?

**Nay:** Wow

**Dave:** I might have seen it in a theater

**Matt:** Well if you're twenty-one

**Dave:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Oh, naked Jeff Fahey with those lamps in *Psycho III*, mmm

**Michael:** Yeah, he's kind of a stud. I didn't, I didn't...

**Dave:** He is cute

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** (as Diana Scarwid) "There is no God!!!"

**Michael:** I mean…

**Mark:** Diana Scarwid at her Scarwiddiest

**Michael:** Bless her heart

**Mark:** She is really….

**Michael:** (*Psycho*) *II* is actually a pretty good movie

**Mark:** I enjoy the *shit* out of both of them

**Michael:** *Psycho III* is like, it's so stupid

**Brennan:** Be very careful with what you say about *Psycho III*

**Michael:** I like *Psycho III*. It's completely stupid

**Brennan:** I can live with that

**Michael:** Yeah, can you live with that?

**Mark:** Also director Katt Shea also featured…

**Nay:** Nice. Yes.

**Mark:** In one of her last acting roles as the sorority sister who dies on a toilet

**Dave:** Oh!

**Michael:** Wait. *Really*? That's her?

**Mark:** I'm pretty sure that's her, yeah

**Matt:** What a way to go

**Nay:** I know

**Michael:** And *Psycho III*'s directed by Anthony Perkins

**Mark:** Yes it is

**Michael:** Which is pretty wild

**Mark:** It is pretty wild, and super super…

**Matt:** Well, that's what I was gonna ask, if he was involved in (*Psycho*) *II* or *III* because I know I saw these as a kid but i don't remember them

**Michael:** Yeah, he's in actually all four of 'em

**Matt:** Wow

**Michael:** Yeah. And heavily involved

**Dave:** And is this the Katt Shea that went on to direct…

**Mark:** *Poison Ivy*?

**Dave:** *Carrie 2*?

**Michael:** Yes

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** Okay. A friend of mine just saw that and I've never seen it, but a detail that he told me which makes me laugh, is it's twenty years after the events of *Carrie*...

**Michael:** Yep

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** And Amy Irving is now a high school guidance counselor, and she takes-- so when she goes to the house, to Carrie's house that like Carrie burned down and it's still smoldering. It's literally been twenty years

**Michael:** And so is the high school

**Dave:** No, that's what that's what, yeah. The remains of the high school continue to smolder

**Michael:** Yeah yeah yeah. They're still smoldering, they didn't take any of the wreckage away…

**Dave:** That's *amazing*!

**Mark:** I believe it

**Dave:** It's *The Simpsons* tire fire

**Mark:** I buy it

**Mark:** I went to the movies and I saw a documentary that was probably one of the most horrifying experiences I've had in the theater in a while. It's an Oscar-nominated doc called *Free Solo*. Has anybody heard of this?

**Brennan:** I've heard of it

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Dave:** Don't know anything about it

**Mark:** Okay, if you can catch it in IMAX and you love pain, and hate heights, just go see it

**Michael:** Sounds terrible

**Mark:** It is about Alex Honnold, who is one of the world's most foremost, if not *the* most foremost free solo mountain climbers, who essentially trains to climb thousand-upon-thousand elevation heights with no rope, nothing

**Nay:** Mmm-mm

**Dave:** No thanks

**Mark:** Just his hands and shoes and some powder. And the cinematography of this movie is spectacular, it is stunning. It's absolutely worth seeing in IMAX if you can catch it, I know they re-released it. And I just spent the entire movie just swearing at the screen

**Dave:** Wow

**Mark:** I just cursed out loud, just absolutely nauseous but really glad I saw it, because it really is an astonishing story

**Michael:** I don't think I could see that. Too afraid of heights

**Matt:** That's a good recommendation, and I hear you and I know I'd have the same experience which is why I won't be seeing it. Thank you for the recommendation

**Nay:** I *loved* (*Russian Doll*). That's my take, yeah

**Matt:** I did the first two and I loved it, and it made me both miss smoking cigarettes and also *so* glad…

**Nay:** Oof

**Matt:** So grossed out. I feel like Natasha Leone was like, (as Natasha Leone) "I wanna do a show where I could just fuckin' smoke the whole time." (normal voice) And that was the, y'know, seed

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** That was the pitch

**Nay:** I would watch her do anything

**Matt:** She's great

**Nay:** Anything at all

**Michael:** Now I want a cigarette

**Dave:** (sotto voce) I don't

**Michael:** I haven't smoked in the longest time

**Mark:** I miss it *bad* this week

**Dave:** (sotto voce) I don't *at all*. *At all*

**Michael:** What's that?

**Dave:** I don't at all. It's the weirdest thing. I *loved* it when I smoked, and now I don't miss it at all. Very strange. You'll get there

**Michael:** I miss it when I have really stressful weeks. I'm like, "*Fuck.* I could use like thirty." But

**Mark:** Any other takers at this time before we move on?

**Nay:** Anyone else want cigarettes?

**Dave:** No, not at all

**Dave:** I am going back through various AppleTV apps to various things that I watched in the eighties. There is a *Night Flight* app, and it's subscription based, you pay three bucks a month. Worth every penny. It's the whole catalog of films they used to show on *Night Flight*, aside from *Ladies and Gentlemen, The Fabulous Stains* which they used to play every other week and I'm dying to see again. But it's also full episodes of *Night Flight.* So you get, in some cases, along with the videos and the raps and all that, you get the commercials

**Michael:** Oh no kidding

**Mark:** No *way*

**Dave:** Which is insane. And then also a friend of mine and I recently went down a Shout! Factory AppleTV app of *Fridays*, the ABC…

**Michael:** The SNL-like?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** Okay

**Dave:** Yeah, SNL competition that aired on Friday nights with Michael Richards and Larry David. And it is *real* *bad*, but it is fascinating. It's like really fascinatingly bad. Yeah, so I'm kind of watching those over and over again. I don't want it to be 2019, I want it to be the eighties

**Mark:** (faux innocence) What do you mean? Why?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Did you see the documentary on Hulu about *The Dana Carvey Show*?

**Dave:** Mmm-hmm

**Mark:** Oh, so good

**Dave:** Absolutely

**Mark:** Love that one. God, I love failed sketch comedy shows. Like *The Edge*. Do you remember *The Edge*?

**Michael:** Oh my God, yes

**Dave:** Do I? Yeah

**Mark:** Jennifer Aniston…

**Michael:** *Edge* was great

**Dave:** "I'm Jennifer Aniston and I'm on *The Edge*."

**Mark:** What was their thing?

**Dave:** I don't know that you know you're in the room with the number-one faniston on planet earth

**Matt:** Although I say I'm the number-one faniston, but I've never seen *The Edge*. I'm familiar with *The Edge*, of course

**Mark:** It is...

**Dave:** It must exist online somewhere, right?

**Michael:** It has to, right? YouTube?

**Mark:** Bits and pieces *must* exist. There must be wreckage of it on YouTube?

**Matt:** I'm sure she's tried to bury it, but unsuccessfully

**Michael:** What's your favorite Aniston piece of work?

**Matt:** Oh, God...

**Michael:** I've never met a Faniston

**Matt:** I mean, I would say, obviously *Friends* I could go back to time and again

**Michael:** *Leprechaun* (1992)?

**Matt:** Have you guys talked about *Leprechaun*?

**Michael:** No. Not yet

**Matt:** Wow. I actually have not gone back and seen it since I was a child. But, favorite? I don't know. There are a lot of not-good ones? But *Friends With Money* is the boss-level one

**Michael:** Yeah, good one

**Mark:** Good one

**Matt:** And *Cake*. She was great in *Cake*

**Mark:** Yeah, she was real good in that. Have you ever met her?

**Matt:** Sort of. I, when I moved here, you know, Merrick's in West Hollywood is the Tex-Mex, I'm sure you… in the mid-2000s that was the spot. Early 2000s

**Dave:** Yeah

**Matt:** And that was the heyday, season ten of *Friends*, she-- Louis Virtel always says that's when hair was a parenthesis, that's how he describes the, that's my favorite thing ever about that aesthetic. You know, she and Courtney Cox both had the, anyway. So I would see her there hanging out on thislittle patio a couple times. And there was one time where she was staring at me, and I was *trying* to be a normal person and not look and not stare at *her*, and I'm like, "Well, eventually I gotta make eye contact because she's feeling this. Like it's on. We are going to be friends." And finally I just had to like, fully look at her after so long of avoiding eye contact and be like, "Hey!" And she goes, (as Jennifer Aniston) "Could I have a cigarette?" (normal voice) 'Cause I was smoking, and I was like, "*Yes!"*

**Michael:** Can I just say, she *loves* cigarettes

**Matt:** And just grabbed the cigarettes from my friend and threw them at her. She was with Catherine Keener…

**Dave:** *Wow!*

**Matt:** And she was like, "Can she have one, too?" And I was like, "Please!"

**Mark:** Um, okay

**Michael:** (as Matt) "Can I have the butts when you're done?"

**Matt:** And then she, well, her assistant came and brought her her Merit Ultra Lights and she was like, "Give some to those guys, they were so nice, they gave us some." I can't believe I didn't save it. I smoked it up!

**Michael:** A guy I dated used to do her hair

**Matt:** Oh *wow*

**Michael:** And said she was like, I think it was when her and Justin (Theroux) got together years ago, and said they were both pretty amazing people

**Matt:** Did you date Chris McMillan?

**Michael:** No. Someone who worked for him

**Matt:** Okay. Yeah, yeah

**Mark:** I pitched a movie to her once. And her house is really white

**Matt:** (sotto voce) Oh yeah

**Mark:** And it even had like a white dog that walked through and was kind of like, "Mmm-hmm," and just kind of walked away

**Michael:** Knew where you lived?

**Mark:** It was like a, "No, no. I'm not for petting" kind of vibe. But she sort of has just a very easygoing incredibly friendly manner. And she was so beautiful, I thought if you made her cry it would be like Smartwater. She was immaculate, and she's very nice

**Matt:** She's the perfect human. Guys, let's just say it. She's the perfect human

**Mark:** She's… you know what? Jen, this one's for you

**Brennan:** She's got the Queerwolf Seal of Approval?

**Mark:** Completely

**Michael:** This is now called *Attack of the Faniston* podcast?

**Mark:** Right. Reluctant friend of the pod Jennifer Aniston

**Brennan:** Mark, I know you desperately wanna hear about the continuation of my La Llorona marathon

**Mark:** You're allowed to talk about one La Llorona movie a week

**Brennan:** I have one. I have one.

**Mark:** Choose wisely

**Brennan:** I will. Also, my boyfriend, who is Mexican, criticized me for not rolling my "R"s when I say "Llorona", and he always gets mad when I over-pronounce things and he calls me a "pretentious tool", so I just can't win with him, I guess. But anyway…

**Nay:** It's a fine line

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** It's a fine line

**Brennan:** It really is. I'm trying, I'm trying my best

**Mark:** Oh, doing your best

**Brennan:** Anyway, I watched a movie from 1960 called, guess what? *La Llorona*. It's basically a remake of the '33 one, which as you all remember…

**Michael:** I need to get you a subscription to something

**Brennan:** Is about an indigenous woman who's kind of cheated by a kind of conquistador Spanish guy in favor of a Spanish woman and it's kind of her murdering her children in a rage and then murdering all of the generation's firstborn from all of his progeny

**Michael:** Sounds cool

**Nay:** Mmm, that sounds tight

**Brennan:** This is kind of a similar story, but way more beautiful? The second act, which is the flashback to how she became La Llorona, is really stunning. There's this part right after she, you know, stabs her children to death, you know it's a fun topic, where the crowd, there's like an angry mob in the town square and they find out about her misdeeds and they start clawing at her. And the camera just stays on her face, and she's got this quiet calm on her face, and she's beautiful, like movie star, just fabulous gorgeous and just these hands just taking across her face and pulling her back and forth

**Nay:** Oh my Gosh, that sounds so good

**Brennan:** It's like any arthouse director in the sixties watching that is gonna faint and be so jealous. But then the third act is La Llorona becoming a nanny for this family in the sixties

**Mark:** Plot twist!

**Nay:** Yeah!

**Brennan:** And she has these twelve hours to get the child to die, but she can't touch it, so it's like...

**Dave:** This is like an improv game

**Brennan:** Yeah, it turns into a Wile E. Coyote cartoon of the kid's running with scissors and she tries to trip it and it doesn't work and she's like, "Ah, dammit!" And it's like that for thirty minutes, which I also really enjoyed

**Nay:** Oh my God, I want that

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** I need to watch that

**Mark:** All right

**Brennan:** The two things that it is are not consistent, but I loved both of them

**Michael:** I'm all about anything that kills a kid

**Brennan:** Yes, we heard

**Nay:** You *are*

**Matt:** That's your sweet spot

**Michael:** Yeah. Gimme dead kids

**Mark:** I hope that you'll, when this episode drops you'll post a clip of it

**Brennan:** I will. I have a gif of that shot, and I'm gonna share it on Twitter

**Mark:** Please do

**Brennan:** It's so beautiful

**Nay:** What did you watch it on? Sorry, just one more thing

**Brennan:** That one was on YouTube

**Mark:** All right. Let's get down to business. Tonight's film is the heavy-breathing 1993 fiasco follow-up to *Basic Instinct*, a film that featured Sharon Stone, a script by Joe Eszterhaus, the producer of *Chinatown* and weird internet connections that involve roses downloading on their own and that make no sense whatsoever. What could go wrong? The answer is everything. The movie is *Sliver*, and here's the trailer

(The trailer is played)

Realtor: Central air conditioning

**Sharon Stone:** Absolutely terrific

**Matt:** I love that the (unintelligible) original trailer!

**Narrator:** Carly Norris knew what she wanted

**Sharon Stone:** I'll take the apartment

**Dave:** She wanted the apartment

**William Baldwin:** Would you look at her? She's a voyeur. She can't get enough!

**Michael:** This movie's *so* problematic

**Mark:** I know. So many…

**Narrator:** Someone was watching…

**Mark:** Oh man, that's enough of that

**Dave:** That's it?

**Mark:** No, but you know…

**Dave:** We *do* get the picture

**Brennan:** There's like two full minutes after that. Nobody needed that

**Mark:** Of more of Jerry Goldsmith's score from *Basic Instinct*, a far superior problematic film

**Mark:** So, now, Matt and Dave, a question: What's wrong with you? Why *Sliver*? And I say that with love, because thank you. But also, what is it about this movie that holds fascination, 'cause watching it, I was like, "Good Christ." And then…

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** You know, but at the same time …

**Dave:** I can only speak for myself, but I bet you agree with me. I am nostalgic for a time when Gregorian chants were sexy, you know what I mean? I miss that moment in history when all the 976 number ads on cable access in New York had, you know, Enigma on them

**Michael:** Oh my God!

**Dave:** I just miss that very sexy moment in the early nineties. I have fond feelings about this terrible, *terrible* movie that is *much* worse than I recall…

**Michael:** I agree!

**Dave:** It was bad when I saw it, but in retrospect it's much worse. And then there's just William Baldwin at his absolute peak

**Matt:** He is at his peak. We were debating the hotness, or lack thereof about William Baldwin before the show…

**Dave:** Oh. Who…?

**Matt:** I'm still firmly in the camp; well, Michael was questioning?

**Michael:** Yeah, I was questioning my old taste

**Dave:** *Really*

**Michael:** But I'm more of a *Backdraft* William Baldwin

**Dave:** Okay

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** Yeah. He's absolutely beau-- Should we rank our Baldwins? Just so we know where we stand before we go any further

**Michael:** That's a really good idea

**Mark:** No, I think that's a good… Now are we ranking Baldwins within certain films or just general?

**Dave:** Well see, I mean...

**Michael:** Like peak Baldwins? 'Cause I could rank like seven different Alecs

**Dave:** I know. That's the thing, that's the *thing*! *Miami Blues* Alec is the hottest one, but we can't freeze him in time there, we have to know the full story

**Michael:** My favorite Alec Baldwin is the diner sketch from SNL with Jan Hooks. You ever seen that?

**Dave:** Oh, okay. Yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** When he's a cowboy?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** What about *Beetlejuice* Alec?

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Dave:** Acceptable

**Mark:** Remember? That was before we knew he had like, scary rage issues and stuff?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** I was like, "Oh, he's so nice!"

**Dave:** We have to take the full thing into account

**Mark:** Of course

**Dave:** But William's on top for me

**Matt:** One hundred percent, although Stephen has a slight edge because I loved *Threesome* so much

**Mark:** *Threesome*, yes

**Dave:** Me, too

**Matt:** But I'm gonna tell you where my mind went when we started ranking the Baldwins was, "Oh, no! But the one who was trans died, and where are we gonna rank her…"

**Michael:** Arquette?

**Matt:** I went to the Arquettes

**Dave:** Oh, yeah

**Matt:** Because Alexis is also in…

**Mark:** *Threesome*

**Matt:** *Threesome*

**Dave:** That's right

**Mark:** (as Alexis in *Threesome*) "Front desk dick!"

**Matt:** Should we just talk about *Threesome* instead of this movie?

**Michael:** Josh Charles, right? Oh, so cute

**Mark:** I will talk about *Threesome* all fucking night

**Matt:** Those two movies were probably the most formative sex movies for me

**Dave:** Same year too, right? Yeah

**Matt:** I gotta tell you, I took notes, not to brag, during this movie. I can't read any of them. The only thing I can read that stands out to me that I wrote in all-caps is, "THIS IS NOT TERRIBLE"

**Mark:** Yeah

**Matt:** Like five minutes in, I was kind of like, "You know what? I'm on board." I immediately dropped the irony and I was on the journey

**Dave:** Sure. Okay. Okay

**Mark:** I mean, sure! Listen, y'know, movies about real estate can be-- troubling, troubled real estate can be exciting, I think

**Dave:** Sure

**Mark:** There's lots to pick apart here

**Dave:** Yeah. And it starts with a well-done fall from a great height…

**Matt:** Yep

**Dave:** Our not quite Sharon Stone. I had forgotten about that part completely, and it was like...

**Mark:** Sure

**Michael:** Karen Moan?

**Mark:** Sharon's stand-in?

**Dave:** Yeah. Looking at her, my first thought was not, "Oh! That's right, there's somebody who looks like Sharon Stone who is murdered at the beginning." My first thought was, "Is that what Sharon Stone looked like in 1993?"

**Michael:** I had the same thought, because she looks different

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** Like my memory has played tricks on me

**Matt:** I thought it was my um, width, what's the, with the…

**Dave:** Yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** Vertical hold?

**Matt:** Yeah, that one

**Dave:** Horizontal

**Mark:** You're like, "Damn, this motion's smooth!" Was it Naomi Singer? Poor Naomi Singer

**Michael:** There is something to be said, Dave, about the sexiness, because it was a different time

**Dave:** I mean…

**Michael:** Things aren't as sexy anymore because you can find that shit anywhere, right?

**Dave:** Well, things are, I guess it depends on whether you find all of that carrying on sexy. My thought-- because there was a lot of *screaming* and *pounding* and…

**Michael:** I mean, it was...

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** She looked like she wasn't having a good time

**Dave:** Yeah, that's exactly right. My thought during all the sex scenes was, "Who fucks like this anymore?" Like in the movies or in real life?

**Mark:** Did they ever?

**Dave** Did they ever?

**Matt:** I was thinking about and I'm like, okay, so I'm thirteen when I'm watching this. I had this weird friend group where there was strangely a lot of gay guys? And as soon as we hit puberty we're like hooking up and stuff. I'm like, I guarantee that I was somehow trying to model my sexual behavior after Sharon Stone, the way that she fucks in the movie

**Dave:** Yeah?

**Michael:** Like a slit in your dress…

**Matt:** All of it

**Mark:** Berets. Berets

**Matt:** All of it

**Dave:** A lot of noise

**Matt:** Yeah…

**Michael:** Looking for apartments with pillars in them

**Matt:** The scene when she's on her stomach on the couch, I think, and Zeke is crawling over her, and she's like… it's the movie poster, or the cover of the video or whatever

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** Yes

**Matt:** With him over her? I'm like I *know* I recreated that pose at some point

**Dave:** Sure. Sure

**Matt:** Not proud of this

**Dave:** But how else would you learn?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Matt:** Look…

**Dave:** We don't get sex-ed like straight people! We gotta learn from Sharon Stone!

**Mark:** No, listen. 1993, or in my case, 1994, this movie was the Holy Grail at Blockbuster. And I was waitin' for the copies to come back in, so that I could rent it…

**Dave:** Sure

**Mark:** With my free employee, you know, not discount, but, you know, I'd take that home and I would *study* that movie

**Dave:** Sure.

**Dave:** I *know* I owned the soundtrack

**Mark:** Oh my God!

**Matt:** It's got a good-ass soundtrack

**Michael:** It really does!

**Mark:** The *soundtrack*

**Dave:** There are so many songs I had just forgotten about that literally are, I would sing one for you but it's just wailing and chanting and a spare Massive Attack kind of beat

**Mark:** (pretending to chant) Carliton Misei!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** Yeah, well, on this…

**Matt:** "Carly's Song"

**Mark:** "Carly's Song". Immortal. This soundtrack *did* introduce me to Massive Attack, like a lifelong sort of love affair with Massive Attack. Then it also introduced me to things like Lords of Acid that I was like, "Who are these insane horny women who are singing songs where the chorus is essentially just like, (chirpily) 'I wanna touch myself!'" Like that's it. That's all the song is. I was like, "These women are geniuses."

**Dave:** Was "Oh Carolina", by I believe, Shaggy, was that on the *Sliver* soundtrack or the *Threesome* soundtrack or both?

**Mark** Yes it was

**Matt:** It was on *Threesome*

**Mark:** *Threesome*. No no no, on *Sliver*.

**Dave:** It's definitely in *Sliver*…

**Michael:** It is?

**Dave:** But it might be in both.

**Matt:** 'Cause I know it's definitely in *Threesome*

**Dave:** It's definitely in *Threesome*. I could tell you the scene

**Michael:** (chuckling) This is amazing

**Mark:** What I remember is U2, Tears for Fears…

**Matt:** Well that song is…

**Mark:** God, what else?

**Michael:** Well, UB40

**Mark:** Human Sexual Response

**Dave:** We're talking *Threesome* now

**Michael:** Oh. You're talking *Threesome*?

**Mark:** Oh. Can we just talk about Lara Flynn Boyle? Never finer, never better

**Matt:** Just at her peak!

**Mark:** (as Lara Flynn Boyle in *Threesome*) "I need a facial! I need new shoes!" (normal voice) Oh, just so good

**Dave:** Yeah. What a good movie

**Matt:** Hard to believe that she was supposed to be nineteen, or eighteen I guess. They're college freshmen, right?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Matt:** Yeah

**Mark:** Yeah, no. She looked, no, she got divorced, like went to college

**Dave:** We keep steering it back to *Threesome*

**Mark:** You know, just any time

**Mark:** Brennan will you cue up that literally two-line exchange? I wanna talk about Mrs. McAvoy really quick. She's the strangest realtor in the history of cinema. This exchange, first of all, right off the bat, Brennan, would you mind playing that?

**Brennan:** I would not

(Brennan plays the clip)

**Sharon Stone:** What a strange tub

**Mrs. McAvoy**: I like tubs myself

**Mark:** I am sorry, that is some fleeting lesbian intrigue

**Dave:** Sure

**Mark:** I also like that moments later, they enter a room and Mrs. McAvoy is like, (as Mrs. McAvoy) "This is a great room, for reading." (normal voice) Instead of saying, "The last tenant in this place plunged to her death from the balcony, and *also* this is a great room for reading." They just completely neglect to tell her

**Dave:** Well, it's never the right time

**Mark:** It's true. When do you, when are you supposed to say it, really?

**Dave:** Right

**Dave:** How do we feel about the apartment?

**Nay:** Floors were a little dark for me

**Dave:** There is that dumb little kitchen cutout window, y'know that seems very…

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** She was like (as Mrs. McAvoy) "An absolutely terrific kitchen." (normal voice) I was like, "Is it? Is it really that terrific?"

**Nay:** Right

**Matt:** For real estate porn, it's not that great

**Dave:** Also, if I have my geography right, it's *Murray* Hill in the early nineties. So how much Counting Crows do you wanna hear from *every* bar, you know what I mean? Like that continues to be a very frat boy neighborhood

**Nay:** Ooof

**Dave:** Just seems weird, for a Sliver

**Mark:** For a Sliver. I mean, there's a lot of shots of the building, where after a while there were so many of them that I was like, "She just moved into an erect penis."

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Like it's just a big ol' dick

**Nay:** (a little grossed out) *Okay…*

**Mark:** Sorry. Sorry. Someone take this microphone away from me

**Dave:** It's kind of a hideous building.

**Michael:** It's a very hideous (unintelligible)

**Dave:** It's not stylish at all

**Michael:** No

**Dave:** It's not sleek

**Matt:** I remember watching it as a kid in Ohio, I felt…

**Michael:** (gasps) You're from Ohio? Me too!

**Matt:** Southern Ohio. Where are you from?

**Michael:** Cleveland

**Matt:** Oh, I'm the opposite. The village in the very bottom. Kentucky border

**Mark:** Oh, you guys will never get along

**Dave:** "*The Opposite of Cleveland*" sounds like a movie that I would watch

**Matt:** The accents are different, it's a whole different culture

**Michael:** Very different, it's true

**Nay:** Very true

**Matt:** Are you from Ohio, too?

**Nay:** No, I'm from Illinois, but…

**Dave:** Where?

**Nay:** From Champaign-Urbana

**Dave:** Oh wow. I'm from St. Louis

**Nay:** Oh, wow. See, I feel like that whole circle, you'd go like, Chicago, St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, you know that lil' midwestern ring

**Matt:** Have you been watching *Champaign Ill*?

**Nay:** Have I been watching what?

**Matt:** Wait, you're from Champaign, right?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Matt:** There's a show called *Champaign Ill* that's on YouTube Red

**Nay:** *What?*

**Dave:** Adam Pally and Sam Richardson

**Nay:** Oh, that's why I haven't seen it. I don't have YouTube Red

(Everyone is excited about the appearance of Georgie the dog as they leave)

**Dave:** Why would you tease me like that?

**Michael:** Write him a movie!

**Mark:** *Champaign Ill*

**Michael:** Boy, I can't stop thinking about the dog

**Nay:** I know, I know. Georgie's great

**Matt:** Watch *Champaign Ill*

**Dave:** It's funny, it's very funny

**Nay:** Oh my God, I will

**Matt:** Oh, I was gonna say, I remember looking at that building and that apartment, which now I admit is not that great and feeling the way I felt about, in *Poltergeist II*? Is *II* or *III* the *Poltergeist* with…?

**Michael:** *III*, with the high-rise

**Matt:** With Lara Flynn Boyle

**Michael:** Yeah, again

**Mark:** Uh-huh. *Ohhhh*

**Matt:** That high-rise. And I was like, "Someday, baby!"

**Mark:** Now *that* was a glamorous building

**Nay:** Yeah

**Dave:** Sure

**Matt:** That should have been the building (Sharon Stone) should have lived in, that *should* be the Sliver building

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Nancy Allen with those shoulder pads?

**Michael:** I'm scared?

**Mark:** She's like, (as Nancy Allen) "I have an art gallery in this building. I just have to go downstairs to where…" (normal voice) I was like, "This bitch. Ohhh…"

**Matt:** So good

**Nay:** Yeah. I felt that that apartment was bomb when I was little. Also, *Single White Female*

**Dave:** Sure

**Nay:** I was just obsessed with white women moving into apartments. I was just like, "Oh my God!"

**Mark:** That's the Dakota, right? No, the Dakota's *Rosemary's Baby*. Which building was- the Ansonia, that's where they shot *Single White Female*, I believe

**Michael:** When I was a kid, I always wanted like, an adult apartment

**Nay:** Yeah. Hell yeah

**Dave:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** I wanted to live in like, the *Kramer versus Kramer* apartment…

**Dave:** *Yesss*

**Michael:** Minus the divorcing parents

**Dave:** Jessica Lange's apartment in *Tootsie*?

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Nay:** Oh my God, yes!

**Mark:** That was an apartment

**Dave:** And *then* you get to New York City and you see what you can afford on an entry-level salary and that is a ***rude*** awakening. I remember, I just assumed that, really, I mean until I was too old- I moved to New York when I was twenty-two, which is too old to think this, but I really thought when I started looking at apartments it was all just gonna be floor through. Like I'd get on an elevator, it would go *right to* my apartment, the doors would open like *this way*, and it would be my giant living room and I would, you know, do the "Pleasure Principle" video and everyone could really explore and, no. The first place I looked at, there was no kitchen and a shared bathroom

**Michael:** You know it's probably smaller than this conference room

**Nay:** (sing-song) Bachelor

**Dave:** Oh, it was a *quarter* of the size of this conference room. It was a jail cell

**Matt:** This is like college

**Mark:** My first New York apartment, it was a railroad where it was just, I had to walk through…

**Dave:** Oh sure

**Mark:** Y'know, three different people's lives, just to…

**Dave:** Yeah. Not uncommon

**Mark:** It was really…

**Matt:** (chuckling) Three different people's lives

**Mark:** It was really… it was humbling

**Dave:** Not great

**Mark:** There's so many things to unpack, there's so many characters that I don't understand, like Judy, played by the immortal Colleen Camp

**Michael:** (laughing) I hate her!

**Dave:** Judy is the co-worker?

**Mark:** Yeah

**Dave:** All right folks, all right. All right

**Mark:** Feckless, feckless, definitely concupuscent

**Dave:** I mean, has she ever had sex ever?

**Michael:** Right?

**Mark:** No

**Dave:** *Constantly* talking about sex, in the *clunkiest* way

**Michael:** Talking about impotence a lot

**Dave:** Yeah. And *real loud* so everyone can hear her. She, okay there are two moments from her that make this the most Joe Eszterhaus production of all time. First one is I think just because of shitty editing, it's like Judy hasn't talked to Sharon Stone in a long time and she's like, (as Judy) "Honey, where are you?" (normal voice) It's over the phone so we only hear her, and she says two things that are ridiculous, especially in the order they're in. She says, (as Judy) "Where have you been? You're probably having multiple orgasms! You're probably having sex!" (normal voice) The second is implied by the first. It's so silly. And then, again, in front of all of her co-workers, she says something that is peak Joe Eszterhaus, which is, (as Judy) "I've been spending so much time with my vibrator I've been getting a plastic yeast infection!"

**Brennan:** I have that clip, if you would like to hear it

**Dave:** Yes, I would like to hear that!

**Michael:** Absolutely!

(Brennan plays the clip)

**Judy:** You *do* look like you fucked your brains out. Look at you! What are you smiling at? That damn eclair?

**Nay:** Maybe

**Michael:** I would be

**Judy:** I want to know everything. Every little grunt, every wiggle!

**Dave:** "*Every* wiggle."

**Sharon Stone:** There's nothing to tell. You've been spending too much time with your vibrator

**Judy:** I certainly have. I'm getting a plastic yeast infection!

**Dave:** All right. What does that mean? What does that mean, Judy?! What does that mean?

**Nay:** Who the fuck wrote that?

**Dave:** Joe Eszterhaus wrote that!

**Mark:** Joe Eszterhaus

**Nay:** Someone that doesn't have a vagina

**Matt:** Absolutely

**Mark:** Judy is… you guys remember the Bruce McCulloch "Kathy with a K" character from…?

**Michael:** *Yes!!*

**Mark:** You know, is just like, (groans goofily like Bruce as Kathy with a K)

**Michael:** Weren't there two Kathies?

**Dave:** Yes

**Mark:** There's a "Cathy with a C", a "Kathy with a K"

**Michael:** Oh God, it's so great

**Mark:** Yeah, but just a nymphomaniacal version of this

**Nay:** You know what's unrealistic about that phone call for me, I was like, "Who would assume that a cisgender straight woman having sex with a cisgender straight man is having multiple orgasms? Why is that the question you ask?"

**Dave:** Judy. Well, Judy.  Simply Judy

**Mark:** Judy

**Nay:** Oh my God, you're right! Has she ever had sex, because she would know…

**Dave:** No. Never seen a dick in her life

**Nay:** That's not what they're handing out, yeah

**Mark:** I feel like the trope of the office friend who just starts screaming at you about dick the second you get off the elevator is like a storied- I can think of another with like Alex Borstein in *Catwoman*, you remember her? I mean she just had dick on the brain, too

**Dave:** Sure

**Mark:** And I remember there's been others…

**Nay:** I think I've gone through that phase

**Mark:** Yeah?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Matt:** Yeah, that's another...

**Mark:** Where you *were* that co-worker?

**Nay:** Yeah!

**Dave:** You had the good sense to text them or something. You didn't Slack

**Nay:** Well I also was logical…

**Michael:** At least do it in iChat?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Nay:** I wasn't like, (pretending to yell) "Hey, oh my God did you get it?!?" (normal voice) or whatever

**Michael:** You weren't yelling, "Plastic yeast infection"?

**Nay:** No, 'cause I'm not an idiot

**Dave:** What. Does. That. Mean? Okay, someone wrote that…

**Matt:** Uh-huh

**Dave:** Then did a second pass, kept it in...

**Mark:** Rewrites

**Dave:** Pitched it, took it out…

**Michael:** Studio heads said, "Sure". Director...

**Dave:** Studio heads signed off on it, people, they had notes that survived many many rounds of notes. A lot of actresses had to come in and say that line. One of them got the part, she said it, they did a few takes, they got coverage, there's other people, there's a craft services person with a bowl of M&Ms. *Nobody* said, "***What*** is a plastic yeast infection and what does that have to do with anything?" *How? How?*

**Brennan:** I believe you're positing that that line was on the audition sides, and you're *completely* right. That's obviously the line that you would use

**Dave:** Of course! Absolutely!

**Michael:** Of course! And they had her do a walk-and-talk even during the audition...

**Dave:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** While she said it…

**Dave:** Oh, but in place. Like *Whose Line is it Anyway*

**Michael:** And when that actress said it, "That's our Judy."

**Dave:** "She has that magic"

**Nay:** It feels like a testament to just how little anyone knows-slash-cares about vaginas

**Michael:** Well, Joe Eszterhaus, every screenplay he writes is like he's living some high school fantasy of his own

**Dave:** *Yes*

**Nay:** Well, I mean, *Showgirls*….

**Dave:** Yeah, it's just hubris and he, I think is trying to be an *auteur of sex*, you know? He really felt like he was on to something beautiful and transgressive. It's just cocaine. It's just cocaine.

**Matt:** It's strange, but somehow in Sharon Stone's hands there are moments where I'm like, "You know, this doesn't feel *that* male gaze-y to me." There's moments where I'm like, "Oh, she is getting hers…"

**Nay:** She's enjoying herself

**Matt:** "And she is a woman who wants to have multiple orgasms…"

**Dave:** Yeah!

**Matt:** And I think that's awesome

**Mark:** For Joe Eszterhaus, this is his *Fear of Flying*, for sure.

**Dave:** And we do get a little bit of a gaze at William Baldwin at the gym, doing a machine, what is the machine?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** What is that?

**Michael:** The ass machine?

**Mark:** And Sharon Stone's like, (as Sharon Stone) "What's that??"

**Dave:** Yeah, what *is* that? It's a donkey kick machine

**Mark:** (as Sharon Stone) "I don't know!"

**Michael:** Yeah. In his bike shorts

**Dave:** Yeah. In his bike shorts. In his *black* shoes and white socks

**Michael:** And he has handgrips even though he's using his foot?

**Dave:** Yes. Yeah. Very, very strange. Just a very strange machine

**Matt:** But again, formative as a kid...

**Michael:** Absolutely!

**Matt:** I was like, " I'm gonna work out like that when I grow up."

**Michael:** That and the...

**Mark:** Oh yeah, the "gym date".(scoffing) The "gym date". "Let me take you on a date to the gym."

**Nay:** Gross

**Michael:** Having him sitting on the edge of the bed with just the sheet, perfectly…

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** I was like, "Can we just get a little more light in this? I mean, *come on*."

**Mark:** It seems, I guess, for Joe Eszterhaus, I think his brand of feminism, with gigantic air quotes around the word, is the idea that he will frequently have female characters say things that are "*shocking*!" Or quote-unquote "shocking" but in ordinary life just don't make any sense. Such as "plastic yeast infection" or when Sharon/Carly meets Vida (pronounced "Vy-da"). Which I'm like, her name's "Vida",  you pronounce it "Vee-da". Who the fuck pronounces it "Vy-da"? But Vida, she's like, (as Vida) "Oh, you're new, aren't you?" (normal voice) And Sharon's like, "Yeah, I just moved in." And she's like (as Vida) "Oh, I *know*. It's worse than anal intercourse." (normal voice) And I'm like, *who says that* to their new neighbor?!?!

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Who is like. "Just throw it in. You know, maybe she's into butt stuff, I'll just drop it in right here," and I'm like, "What?"

**Michael:** (sing-song) Backstory

**Nay:** Yeah! Feeling it out. "Lemme see what she does when I say this."

**Mark:** Yeah!

**Dave:** For the people who *made* it, I don't think, I mean it is trash, there's no question that it's trash…

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** But the people who made it, I think, think that they were being…

**Michael:** Clever and successful, yeah

**Dave:** That they were moving culture forward with it, and that the shock had a utility in the world. They were making- they were changing the world with their filthy talk. And for a moment they were! I mean they had three giant hit movies, right? Well, two giant hit movies and *Showgirls*

**Michael:** This was a big hit, right?

**Dave:** It was!

**Mark:** Well, it grossed $116 million…

**Michael:** *What*.

**Mark:** Yeah, I know. Just all of a sudden it turned quite a profit

**Dave:** I consider *Showgirls* a hit movie, but it famously was not

**Mark:** It *finally* turned a profit, just recently

**Dave:** Earlier this afternoon

**Mark:** Twenty minutes ago

**Matt:** I'm trying to, what is the meet-cute between Sharon Stone and William Baldwin?

**Michael:** Lobby

**Matt:** He opens the door for her in the lobby, right?

**Dave:** Yeah, he picks up a box for her

**Michael:** He's saying, "I'll carry your box."

**Matt:** Oh, okay, so she's in the elevator and she gets off the elevator and then he says, and this is one I wrote down. This is not terrible. He says casually, throw away, "I'll see you," and then he says that again the next time he sees her 'cause he's literally going to see her, guys!

**Dave:** He *will see her*. Oh, that is lovely

**Matt:** He's watching, see?

**Mark:** I see what Joe did there, yep

**Matt:** How did I become the Joe Eszterhaus apologist here?

**Mark:** No, listen…

**Matt:** I'm, I'm, he's disgusting

**Mark:** I mean, no, he's a fascinating interview certainly, like when you read him or listen to him, he's great. I think my favourite though is that there's also a meet-cute about Tom Berenger where he dresses like the Unabomber and like *grabs* Sharon Stone in Central Park

**Michael:** Yeah, jumps in front of her

**Dave:** Runs at her. Never appropriate in human history

**Matt:** I was gonna say….

**Nay:** Right. Right

**Mark:** In a million years

**Michael:** Might as well have just gone, "Rrraaaahhhh!"

**Dave:** A little abrupt

**Michael:** Yeah?

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Which he starts laughing at her

**Matt:** I don't even know what we were meant to be feeling about Tom Berenger. Like I know that we…

**Michael:** Were we supposed to like him?

**Matt:** Unclear

**Michael:** Yeah

**Matt:** And are we supposed to be like, "He's hot, too."

**Mark:** "He's roguish. She should- What a race."

**Michael:** "He sucks with this terrible writer."

**Dave:** Yeah. He's attractive… in it

**Michael:** Yeah, he is

**Matt:** I definitely as an adult see it more than I did as a kid

**Dave:** Sure. He was invisible to me as a kid

**Mark:** Agreed

**Matt:** I was like, "He's disgusting."

**Dave:** Another question. Is he the killer at the end? Fully by the end I had disengaged emotionally from the entire thing and was just like…

**Nay:** In this version, right?

**Michael:** Well, he threw her off the building, right?

**Matt:** Yes, but… there was a version they shot…

**Nay:** Yeah

**Matt:** Where I think they did not show him throw her off the building, and instead there's a scene, that we've all seen…

**Mark:** Which is available on YouTube and we'll make available to you lucky, lucky listeners. It's where, it reveals that Zeke is in fact the one behind all the killings

**Dave:** Well at least one of 'em

**Matt:** The sound is so bad that I didn't understand. I only understood by reading *about* it on the internet *while* watching it, but…

**Mark:** It's true

**Dave:** Then explain. 'Cause I didn't...

**Matt:** They get married. Zeke and Carly get married…

**Dave:** Right. Real quick

**Matt:** I don't remember what happens with the struggle and the…

**Michael:** There's a fuckin' wedding? Do they show the wedding?

**Mark:** Oh yeah. It's on top of "Manhattan's exclusive Sliver building".

**Dave:** Uh-huh. Where else would it be?

**Mark:** I know! *Why* would you do it anywhere else?

**Brennan:** He can't *leave* the building, he's clearly a ghost

**Dave:** Ohh!

**Matt:** Ohhh! Now that's…

**Mark:** Well, actually they *do* leave the building in this alternate ending

**Michael:** They go to the gym

**Mark:** That's true, they go to the gym

**Brennan:** Isn't the gym in the building?

**Matt:** It should be

**Michael:** I, yeah

**Mark:** My favourite is when they leave the gym and her dialogue is so insane. They're just leaving the gym, she's like, (as "Sharon Stone") "How often do you work out?"

**Dave:** Oh! And you know how often he works out?

**Dave and Michael:** (in unison) "Three times a week!"

**Michael:** *Wow!*

**Dave:** She's like, "Oooohhh!" That's… bare minimum

**Mark:** (Valley girl voice) "Oh my God, that's crazy!"

**Dave:** Also, this is I believe, I mean it's not the first time, but certainly this movie's on the cutting edge of bucket drummers. That was still *fresh* at the time

**Mark:** Yep. And it's like, "Oh, urban edgy! Ohh!"

**Michael:** So many fucking mirrors in the movie

**Dave:** Yeah

**Brennan:** So what happens after the wedding?

**Dave:** So yeah, they get married

**Matt:** You might have to help me talk through this. So they get married and go on their honeymoon and they're flying a helicopter and Zeke is piloting the helicopter…

**Dave:** Yeah. 'Cause he can just apparently do that

**Mark:** And Carly has a camcorder and she's taping him and they're having kind of weird, kind of self-satisfied, y'know, repartee

**Matt:** Because I think this eliminates the whole, she confronts him, she shoots the screens out, it's all, she's still in the voyeur thing with him, and...

**Mark:** Yeah, no. I think basically what happens is that they fly into a volcano the end

**Michael:** *Wait, what?!?!*

**Dave:** Do they?

**Matt:** But before they do, she gets it out of him that he actually kills…

**Mark:** Is the killer

**Dave:** Well, he at least killed the old guy

**Nay:** And it's unclear if she's on board or not when they go in (the volcano)

**Michael:** *What the fuck?*

**Mark:** Essentially…

**Dave:** Well, he unbuckles her, right?

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** As they're about to, as they're already in a helicopter high above the earth...

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** He unbuckles her, and then she's like, "I have the tape of you and whatever the old guy's name was."

**Mark:** Gus

**Dave:** Gus. And…

**Mark:** It's like, "I saw the tape of you two in the shower," and I was like, "*Go on…*"

**Dave:** Yeah, no, it's him doing however he, I dunno. But as he has said to her about the seat belt, she's like, "It's more fun that way." So they both, y'know, could kill each other at any moment

**Nay:** (doubtful) Okay…

**Dave:** And then they fly into an active volcano…

**Nay:** Freak for Freak. I like to (unintelligible)

**Dave:** And then the screen back in the screening room goes to static, which maybe means that they?

**Mark:** And it pulls back...

**Dave:** And it pulls back

**Mark:** Into the sort of the viewing room, and then it holds there, which presumably was going to be for the credits

**Michael:** And Mrs. McAvoy was watching this whole thing?

**Mark:** I *wish*

**Dave:** And we hear UB40's…

**Mark:** She's showing new tenants (as Mrs. McAvoy) "It's got central air, lots of TVs…"

**Dave:** Yeah. "This is a great room for reading."

**Mark:** (as Mrs. McAvoy) "You like to watch, don't you?"

**Dave:** But we get to hear all of "Can't Help Falling in Love" by UB40

**Mark:** That's right

**Dave:** Which, in the final version, we only hear a tiny snippet of, that of course being the big hit song from the soundtrack

**Mark:** I heard that song, I heard, you know, having had very warm and fuzzy feelings *about* the soundtrack, watching this film, not having seen it in a long time, but having a very specific UB40 relationship recently, I was like, "Oh, is this Brett Kavanaugh's favourite movie?" You know…

**Nay:** *Ugh*

**Michael:** Oh, good lord

**Mark:** He's watched this movie and been like, "Oh yeah, there's something…"

**Dave:** And a love-hate relationship with UB40

**Mark:** But a kind of like, *every* man in this movie basically is- here's the thing about the movie. What's interesting about that volcano ending is at least it's nodding toward a *Pretty Poison* kind of twist where you know, sort of, the dewy-eyed ingenue turns out to be a helluva lot crazier than, you know, sort of the purported villain. Which, by the way, if you've never seen *Pretty Poison*, amazing movie. So good. Tuesday Weld is like crazy brilliant in it. But the thing is, this movie, *Sliver*, which always drove me crazy, watching it this time, it wanted to sell you on the idea that voyeurism was really getting under her skin and it was affecting her somehow. But I was like, "How?" All it does is show her want dick, cry during sex. She doesn't *do* anything

**Dave:** Yeah, no

**Mark:** When the Chester molester guy who's going after his stepdaughter, I was like at *least* the movie should have the good sense to let her *be* the one to play God and make the phone call, and A.) Not just give him a warning, like, "That last molestation was free! The next one, you're in trouble."

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** It was like, no! Just have her play God, have her do *something* that makes her feel empowered. As opposed to William Baldwin walking in with Chinese food, going like, (as William Baldwin) "Hey babe. I called 'em."

**Michael:** He calls her at work

**Nay:** Push his ass off the balcony

**Dave:** Right, yeah

**Mark:** I dunno

**Dave:** One funny thing about the alternate ending, as opposed to the ending they went with, which was um, Sharon Stone, they're in the viewing room or whatever and he's like, "I'm gonna go get some food. Do you want anything?" And she's like, "Whatever." But in the alternate ending she's like, "I want truffles."

**Michael:** They talked about truffles in the beginning of the movie, too, like, "Wanna go out for truffles?"

**Mark:** (as William Baldwin) "That place is closed on Mondays, babe."

**Dave:** *Trruffles*. Are they gonna dig with their snouts?

**Michael:** When they went out to dinner, it was for truffles

**Mark:** For truffle…

**Nay:** Oh my God

**Dave:** Do you just *eat* truffles?

**Mark:** Oh my God, that dinner…

**Michael:** "You love truffles, I love truffles"

**Mark:** That dinner…

**Nay:** I was like, "Oh, I'm not rich enough. I've never eaten just truffles."

**Matt:** I don't think I know what truffles are, because I...

**Dave:** Yeah, I don't think that's what's done

**Brennan:** They're a mushroom

**Michael:** They're essentially mushrooms

**Matt:** When you're eating them, you're just eating a mushroom? I'm thinking of like, truffle oil…

**Nay:** They're shaved onto your pasta, or like…

**Michael:** Exactly…

**Nay:** You're not like, "Let's go out for truffles."

**Michael:** It's not like "We have a nice steak tonight or a truffle."

**Dave:** "Or you can eat a tray of truffles"

**Matt:** But are we meant to believe that they were just going to eat truffles?

**Michael:** Yeah, because he was like, "You like truffles, let's go get truffles."

**Nay:** Freak freak, freak freak

**Brennan:** They never order it, though

**Michael:** Well, yeah

**Mark:** I think that's Joe Eszterhaus trying to sell the idea that they're into a glamorous thing...

**Michael:** They're so glamorous?

**Dave:** Truffles equal glamour?

**Mark:** Like they've completely indulged *all* their senses, and *now* they're gonna eat truffles. Nom-nom-nom. I don't know

**Michael:** She balls her panties and hands them to him?

**Nay:** *Girl…*

**Mark:** Okay, imagine sitting next to *that* couple. These two fucking zombies talking about, like muttering about panties next to you. I was watching it and I was like, I felt for this old couple next to them

**Michael:** They're just trying to eat their salads?

**Mark:** Yeah

**Nay:** I fucking wish someone would *try* to get me to do something I don't wanna do by saying, "You lose." I'm like, "I don't fucking care. I don't give a fuck. I'm not doin' this shit!"

**Matt:** "I'm not, I'm not playing this game."

**Dave:** Yeah.

**Michael:** And why is that "Poker"? Just call it "Dare", like you're daring each other. I dunno

**Nay:** Try actin' up in a fuckin' restaurant and leave me alone and never talk to me again

**Michael:** "I'll just pay for the bill."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** Did you guys know that in the script, Carly is described…

**Michael:** There's a script?

**Mark:** I know. And she's described in the script as, quote, "The kind of woman who, given the day could look either thirty-five or forty-five."

**Michael:** (giggling) No fuckin' way, really?

**Dave:** Get the fuck out of here

**Nay:** Damn

**Mark:** *Yes*!

**Matt:** Get outta here

**Michael:** *What?*

**Mark:** *Yes*. I screamed when I read that. I was like, "Oh, that's so good. It's perfect. Of course. Of course!"

**Nay:** Huh

**Matt:** We were talking before how they make such a meal out of how Zeke is younger than her, but I'm like, "Is he?"

**Dave:** Barely

**Matt:** "Is he maybe two years younger than Sharon Stone?"

**Michael:** That's what I was trying to figure out

**Dave:** He looks between thirty-four and thirty-six

**Michael:** When they shot the movie, Sharon Stone was thirty-five, he was thirty

**Dave:** Oh, shit

**Michael:** I was like, how young are they trying to say he is? Because they look the exact same age. I had to look it up to make sure he wasn't older, and surprisingly he was younger

**Dave:** I love the detail that (Zeke's) dead mother was on a soap opera because it precedes them looking in on various apartment buildings where people are talking as though they're on a soap opera. Like the guy who, (fey southern accent) "They found und a shadow on my lung, honey." (concerned normal voice) "What is it?" (fey southern accent) "They say it's probably nothing, but it could be a tumor." (concerned normal voice) "Honey you have to go back to the doctor," like it's not the way people talk at all. *At all*. Across the board, the girl who's being molested, "I hate you, I hate you!" leaving the room. This is not, it's not slice of life

**Mark:** No

**Dave:** At all. It's very soapy

**Mark:** It's full-on *Days* (*of Our Lives*). It's just *Days*

**Michael:** It wishes it was *Days*

**Matt:** When we started- I mean now *that,* can we talk about *Days* now?

**Michael:** Yeah! Austin?

**Matt:** Did it occur to you in this that when we started to learn Zeke's backstory that this is the Donald Trump story?

**Michael:** Ohhhh

**Mark:** Huh

**Dave:** *Fuck*

**Matt:** He's the son of a real estate mogul?

**Michael:** Right?

**Dave:** Oh, wow

**Matt:** Now I'm confusing him with…

**Michael:** Yeah, right?

**Matt:** Right?

**Brennan:** He got the apartment from his dad

**Michael:** And handed the building from his dad

**Matt:** He got handed the building from his dad…

**Mark:** Yep

**Matt:** Hates women

**Michael:** There's no Black people in the building

**Matt:** Right

**Dave:** That's very true

**Matt:** He has the very special filing cabinet

**Dave:** Well there is, but one is terminally ill, so…

**Mark:** Oh, that's right

**Nay:** Yeah, they're fine

**Matt:** Yeah

**Mark:** (as a chipper realtor) "It's okay. That unit will be vacant really soon." (normal voice) It's like, Zeke's not sweating it

**Matt:** There was a Black guy who I remember very clearly because you see him getting out of the shower and he is…

**Michael:** Oh, yeah. Was he also the pilot that for some reason is just staring into a mirror at the end?

**Matt:** Yes

**Dave:** Oh, yeah

**Michael:** Did you notice that?

**Mark:** But here's the thing. Watching it in 2019, you know, I was like, "Wow, this is the most revolting boomer sex fantasy I have ever seen. Just, bluh, I feel so gross watching it." But at the same time, I can't deny there's still that kind of, that 1993 forbidden fruit. And y'know, Sharon Stone in a certain way, *being*, at least for this fag, being, just, being in love with her at that time because she just did not give a shit. *Basic Instinct* was, I mean, that movie was batshit crazy. I dunno if any of you have watched it recently, but it's pretty great in the sense that it just makes no- by the way, have you ever watched *Basic Instinct* the Blu-ray with Camille Paglia's commentary?

**Dave:** No

**Mark:** Which, don't, y'know Camille Paglia is like, "mrrr, okay, whatever," but it's her favourite movie and she recorded this commentary ages ago, and it is the funniest fucking thing, because she spends every single scene *so* excited to be watching this movie. They cut to like, Catherine Trammell's beach house or whatever and she's like, (as Camille Paglia) "Catherine Trammell! Nestled! Spider-like! In rocks! Rocky! Dangerous! Man-trap! Blah blah blah!"

**Dave:** Oh, I love it

**Mark:** She's just in this frenzy and you just, I dunno- it's pee your pants funny and it's good and I really enjoy it

**Matt:** Oh, I need it!

**Mark:** Oh yeah, definitely

**Dave:** (*Sliver*) is, even though it is *not great*, and problematic and crazy, there's something- the combination of William Baldwin's eyes with the kind of fringe of hair is movie (unintelligible) and the kind of, "Whoop!"

**Michael:** "Bloop-bloop"

**Dave:** That genre of music, y'know?

**Mark:** Yeah

**Dave:** Chanting and wailing and "Whoop!" It awakens something primal in me. It really does. I can't explain it. I'm still powerless

**Matt:** No, he still does it for me, too. I love him in it

**Dave:** Oh, God

**Michael:** I couldn't get past the way she, like just her orgasm sounds

**Dave:** Yeah. It's a lot

**Michael:** I was like, "What is happening?" It reminded me a lot of *Drag Race* when Alyssa Edwards couldn't have an orgasm when they were doing a telenovela

**Mark:** Oh, I don't remember

**Michael:** She was supposed to be pretending to have an orgasm, and Jinx Monsoon was killing the orgasm game, and Alyssa wasn't, and I was like, "That's Sharon Stone."

**Nay:** Oh, that's true

**Michael:** But it also makes me think, "What did the director and writer think women orgas-- like female orgasms sound like?"

**Mark:** Well, listen. So famously Sharon and William did not get along

**Nay:** Uh-oh

**Mark:** So that might have…

**Dave:** Oh really?

**Mark:** Yeah, Sharon, look, I'm always gonna fall on Sharon's side. She gives, y'know, she gave it the old college try as far as I'm concerned, y'know, because these scenes are basically just being flung up against posts and shit and getting pinned down and it's just like, "uch," by… but apparently she really had a rift with Baldwin on set after he described her to the crew as, quote, "Thin lips. Okay breath."

**Nay:** *Oh*!

**Dave:** Wow. *Wow*

**Mark:** And she was just like, "Are you fucking kidding me?"

**Nay:** I mean…

**Mark:** And then, and then their "feud" on set escalated. Apparently they asked Phillip Noyce if they could shoot their scenes separately as much as possible, so sometimes I think certain scenes they're not even in the same room. And there was a scene where he was *not* supposed to do this, but he full-on slipped her the tongue and she bit it so hard…

**Brennan:** Oh, good for her!

**Mark:** That he couldn't speak for a week

**Nay:** *Nice*

**Matt:** *Wow*

**Mark:** So. *Sliver* was a really warm, cordial fun set. Everyone had a great time and yeah, it shows

**Michael:** It does

**Dave:** Oh my God

**Michael:** I kept thinking about what a remake would look like today, y'know?

**Mark:** Well, that's the thing, y'know, there's something, an impression about *Sliver*, right- even though, you, Dave described the, some of the surveillance scenes as being really "soapy and a little purple" in terms of how they're presented. At the same time, when the camera is just allowed to drift over this sort of, like these different lives, there is something unsettling and creepy and kind of fascinating...

**Dave:** Right

**Mark:** So there's definitely something there. It's interesting. And it's definitely kind of- do you guys think this movie, even in its ham-fisted horny way predicted a kind of fascination with quote-unquote "reality minutia"? I mean, is that a reach, or is there something to that?

**Matt:** I don't think it's a reach. I think that's what he was *vaguely* reaching for with the original ending, with the panning back to the screen that was, y'know

**Mark:** Absolutely

**Matt:** We're being confronted. We like to watch too! Just like Carly

**Mark:** Yeah. It's true. "How does it feel?!" And it's exactly like ke he turns it on us

**Dave:** In terms of a remake, I'm just trying to figure who occupies the William Baldwin space right now. Or the Sharon Stone space, frankly

**Mark:** The Sharon space, I feel after seeing *Red Sparrow*, Jennifer Lawrence could

**Dave:** Really?

**Michael:** She came to my mind, too

**Matt:** I don't want that to be my answer but I think it is

**Michael:** Same. I don't want it to be either

**Mark:** No? *Red Sparrow*'s a good time

**Nay:** I just say yes

**Michael:** Katherine Heigl

**Mark and Matt**: Oh, wow!

**Matt:** Unexpected

**Nay:** *Okay*. Rachel McAdams

**Matt:** Jennifer Aniston? I'm just saying

**Dave:** Maybe

**Mark:** Now listen, Jennifer Aniston in a remake of *Sliver* is something I would watch

**Michael:** Oh! Blake Lively! Blake Lively would do it

**Mark:** Oh yeah, Blake would be interesting

**Matt:** I just saw *A Simple Favor* and it's *so good*

**Michael**: That's great

**Mark:** She's great in it

**Dave:** But who is making *good*, high-quality…

**Matt:** Like erotic thrillers?

**Dave:** Big budget erotic trash any more? Who is the actress, or the actor?

**Matt:** Well, there's the *Fifty Shades* movies

**Dave:** (weakly) Yeah…

**Nay:** "High-quality"

**Dave:** Yeah. And Dakota Johnson *does* other things

**Mark:** I feel like, are we going full-on arty, like, say, I mean (pronounced with a French accent) Catherine Bréa would be...

**Matt:** Who?

**Mark:** (Pronounced without the French accent) Catherine Bréa? She made *Fat Girl* and um…

**Dave:** Oh no, I'm talking actress wise

**Mark:** Oh, my bad! Okay, sorry. I was thinking of who would be overseeing this

**Michael:** *Are* there erotic thrillers made anymore?

**Dave:** Yeah, probably not

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Right? I can't...

**Dave:** And also, has impressive chest hair been replaced by abs and shoulders in the popular- like when you look at men?

**Michael:** Chest hair's made a comeback, right? No?

**Dave:** I dunno

**Brennan:** You get 2011 Penn Badgley to do it

**Dave:** Oh!

**Brennan:** I am only thinking about Penn Badgley. Also, Megan Hilty from *Smash* for the lead role

**Mark:** Hmmm, interesting

**Matt:** *Wow*

**Michael:** I could see a chest hairy Chris Evans.

**Brennan:** Oh yeah, he does like to do that on the offseasons

**Michael:** If he doesn't shave, he's got a lot of chest hair

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** Now I'm just hell casting it

**Matt:** It's really hard. I'm also just mourning the end of that era, it's like I don't know that you *can* make a trashy erotic thriller now

**Michael:** The early nineties thrillers, man. The erotic ones *and* the non-erotic ones, they don't make movies like that these days

**Dave:** Well, David DeCoteau, or whatever, I don't know what that guy's name is

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Dave:** I love those

**Matt:** This is semi-related, but...

**Michael:** *The Brotherhood*?

**Dave:** *Oh!* Gimme it. I love it

**Matt:** Do you guys remember a movie called *Stacy*? No, it's called *Lisa*, with…

**Mark:** Yes

**Matt:** Stacey Keenan and...

**Michael:** Stacey Keenan from *Step-by-Step*?

**Matt:** Stacey Keenan from Step-by-Step, *My Two Dads*

**Michael:** Yep

**Matt:** And Morgan Fairchild? No, it's not Morgan Fairchild. Someone Morgan Fairchild-esque plays her mother

**Mark:** I just remember the poster and the *font*. I don't remember the cast. But she's on the phone, right? She doesn't make obscene phone calls, but what does she do?

**Matt:** She pretends to be an adult, she's a kid who pretends to be an adult...

**Mark:** That*'s* right

**Matt:** And gets a crush on this adult guy and starts making sexy phone calls to him and they sort of…

**Michael:** PG-13

**Matt:** What she doesn't know is that he's a *serial killer*!!!

**Dave:** Oh no

**Michael:** Cheryl Ladd

**Matt:** Cheryl Ladd!

**Mark:** (amused) Cheryl Ladd

**Dave:** I love that it's a dramatic movie called "*LISA*"

**Matt:** And D.W. Moffat is the killer

**Dave:** And my thing today, I was jogging and I went past the *Alita: Battle Angel* bus shelter today, and just how different would it be if it were "*Anita: Battle Angel*"? Just a tiny little change

**Michael:** What a… *Lisa*

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** My movie's called "*Lisa*"

**Dave:** Yeah

**Michael:** "*Joyce*"

**Dave:** "*The Warrior*"

**Matt:** I love *Lisa*

**Michael:** The spin-off for *Basic Instinct*, or *Sliver* could've been *Judy*

**Dave: *Judy!*** She does deserve her own Netflix original show

**Matt:** Yeah

**Michael:** She's *still* lookin' for that orgasm thirty years later

**Dave:** (as Judy) "Hey! Are you having orgasms in there?!?!" (normal voice) "This is the post office…"

**Michael:** It's just her voice outside of doors

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** Oh my God

**Nay:** Also, you have a vibrator and you're *not* having orgasms? That is what they're for! That's like the dependable orgasm

**Mark:** And Judy, Judy see a doctor

**Nay:** Good lord, yeah

**Matt:** For multiple reasons

**Dave:** Yes

**Nay:** That's true. Not everyone can have an orgasm or is interested in orgasms, for sure

**Mark:** But...

**Nay:** It sure seemed like you want one, yeah

**Michael:** Get that girl a Sybian

**Mark:** Now because this is a, you know, quote-unquote "queer podcast", I remember when I mentioned to Josh that we were doing *Sliver*, he was like, "Fantastic! But that's not… queer. There's nothing queer about *Sliver*, is there?"

**Dave:** Well, my appreciation of it is very queer

**Matt:** Indeed

**Michael:** Yes!

**Mark:** And again, exactly, that's what's sort of fascinating about *Sliver*. I mean aside from the fact that, you know, the gayest thing I can think about it *literally* is that, you know, the nineties featured a lot of embattled, kind-of maybe horny women in berets, like, y'know, who y'know, had to, "I'm gonna have to go through, crawl through glass to get to the other side." Like Sharon in this, Jennifer Jason Leigh in *Dolores Claiborne*. Anyway, there's a whole list. But, you know, my questions are, "Is this movie gay just because of Sharon Stone literally?" And conversely, "What does it mean that there's literally nothing queer about this movie and yet to appreciate it means that somehow, you have to be a gay person on some level to appreciate it in a way that goes beyond the sum of its parts, kind of."

**Matt:** Yeah

**Dave:** I think it's queer in the same way that like, *Sex, Lies and Videotape…* is, because I think it is about an alternate expression of sexuality, kind of? Although he's not really, he doesn't necessarily get off watching people, but that's kind of his whole character

**Matt:** Right

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Dave:** And that he works out his butt while wearing waiter shoes.

**Dave and Matt:** What could be gayer than that?

**Matt:** That's right

**Mark:** That gym outfit was, really, I was, "Oh! Okay! All right, sure. Yeah."

**Matt:** I also think just Sharon, yeah, I mean Sharon Stone's essence is just *so*, *so* queer. But also something about her, you know, this forbidden lust element that she- he's too young and she knows that she's not supposed to and then *she* gets sucked into liking to watch. Something about it really resonated with me as a kid

**Dave:** Yeah. Something vampiric about it

**Matt:** Yeah

**Mark:** Yeah

**Matt:** It's a pretty gay movie!

**Brennan:** And this movie was based on a novel by Ira Levin, who wrote *Rosemary's Baby* and *The Stepford Wives*, and even though he was a straight man, I feel like he really crossed a lot of gender lines to get into the *meat* of how women are treated by what was modern society at the time.

**Mark:** Mmmm

**Brennan:** And there's not, that's not *not* queer.

**Mark:** Fair

**Brennan:** He's kind of like an *all-gender* being in my mind. He wrote a song for Barba Streisand. Ira Levin is the best

**Michael:** Well I think when you're younger, Sharon's an avatar

**Matt:** Right

**Michael:** Sharon's you, you know what I mean?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I know when I was a kid watching it, I was like, "*I'm* Sharon Stone."

**Matt:** Exactly

**Dave:** Wow

**Nay:** Baby Michael! So cute

**Michael:** Oh my God. My giant fuckin' braces

**Dave:** Do we know how the Ira Levin ends?

**Brennan:** I *don't*

**Michael:** Volcano?

**Brennan:** I can tell you how *Son of Rosemary* ends, but that's probably not relevant

**Dave:** No, no

**Michael:** Thanks, Brennan

**Nay:** I think for me as a kid, it was just easy access porn, because there wasn't the internet...

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** There wasn't free porn on the internet, if you had the internet. And the most porn I ever could see was like, a scrambled channel ninety-nine while, like, y'know?

**Michael:** I feel ya, yeah

**Nay:** And so, I was like, "Oh my God!" So you know my old-lookin' ass would go rent it at Blockbuster…

**Matt:** Yeah!

**Nay:** 'Cause they were like, "Oh, this grown-up woman, probably, wants to rent *Sliver*. *Again*."

**Michael:** And they thought you were Judy

**Mark:** Looking at it, watching it, you know, with fourteen-year-old eyes, you know, kind of, Sharon only has three modes in this movie, which is sort of sad, scared, and horny, or like, during the sex scenes like literally scared horny or "scorny".

**Michael:** Yeah, like crying

**Matt:** Scorny!

**Michael:** Scorny

**Mark:** She looks like, (Valley Girl voice) "Oh my Gooood!" (normal voice) She looks like she's trying to- there's a Pepé Lé Pew vibe in some of the sex scenes

**Michael:** What's going on with his dick?

**Mark:** I dunno

**Dave:** You *can* download the book, in PDF

**Michael:** For free?

**Dave:** Uh, yeah

**Matt:** Very disappointing to see that she's not on that cover

**Dave:** No she's not

**Matt:** Missed opportunity. But it is hot.

**Dave:** Anyway. I was gonna see just what the last line of the novel was

**Nay:** Great

**Dave:** Because I think we deserve that

**Matt:** We do

**Michael:** It just says, "Volcano".

**Nay:** So that helicopter crashed in filming, right?

**Mark:** The actual- so it's weird. We got to see the alternate ending where there *is* footage and they sell the idea that the helicopter goes into the volcano. However, the crew that actually did, I think a lot of second unit stuff, to *really*, *really* get in there, that helicopter *did* crash…

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** And those guys were lucky to be alive, and all footage was lost

**Nay:** Yeah

**Dave:** Geez!

**Mark:** There's actually an element, an *element*, an episode of a show called *I'm Lucky to Be Alive* or something… where they talked about those guys

**Matt:** Oh, wow

**Nay:** That's hard to forget

**Mark:** Yeah, it's pretty wild. But can you imagine, like, "I nearly died for *Sliver*?"

**Dave:** You know, it's funny. I meant to mention this. There is an episode of *I Had A Plastic Yeast Infection* about Judy

**Mark:** Nice

**Dave:** That's worth watching

**Mark:** Brave. Very brave

**Dave:** Yeah

**Nay:** I mean, it could have least said like, B.V., bacterial vaginosis. I'm like, that's a lot more believable of a thing to get from a vibrator if you're, you know, it's not clean

**Dave:** Yeah. Doesn't have the heat of a yeast infection. I mean cultural heat, I don't mean...

**Matt:** But in the Katherine Heigl remake, with Penn Badgley, *she* gets B.V.

**Nay:** *Yes!* I would love to see someone get B.V. in a movie

**Mark:** Listen. And you know, that's the kind of nuance that a high-class remake of *Sliver* could get, because I also dug around a little bit and… I found out that in *Hollywood Animal*, Joe Eszterhaus's memoir-slash-tell-all, apparently in an interview Robert Evans was asked, "What is *Sliver* about?" And he replied, and I quote, "This movie is all about pussy."

**Dave:** Oh. Okay

**Matt:** Oh my God

**Mark:** So, y'know

**Nay:** Cute!

**Mark:** He had a way with words

**Michael:** Did they ever try to do a *Sliver Two*?

**Mark:** Um, no

**Brennan:** (laughing) What?

**Michael:** I dunno. *More Sliver*?

**Matt:** What a missed opportunity!

**Dave:** *Sliverer*?

**Mark:** *Sliverer. Slivers!*

**Matt:** What if that, as a sequel, just full, same cast, they're back…

**Mark:** (amused) Full sequel

**Michael:** Carly…

**Matt:** Carly and Zeke. We have to decide...

**Michael:** Did he do time?

**Matt:** Was he the killer?

**Mark:** And is Tom Berenger back as Jack… restraining order, I don't know what his last name is

**Matt:** Did Jack die?

**Dave:** Yes

**Michael:** Yeah, he dies

**Dave:** Yes, Jack dies. But I think the identity of the killer's kind of not resolved at the end, right?

**Michael:** Well, don't they show him turn around when they...

**Nay:** Yeah, yeah

**Mark:** In the final cut it is revealed to be Tom Berenger and no, y'know

**Dave:** At least for *one* of them

**Michael:** At least for Naomi? Is that her name? At least for her murder they get him

**Dave:** Yeah. Okay

**Michael:** We could have him survive

**Matt:** He can find a way back

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** Yeah, yeah

**Mark:** I still can't believe we've discussed this entire movie, and yet we still haven't touched on the thing, the moment in the movie that really was sort of the hype, the ultimate hype of the movie that made people want to see it in the first place, or y'know, a lot of people, is the bathtub masturbation sequence

**Matt:** Oh yeah

**Dave:** Oh I forgot all about that

**Brennan:** Is that what that was?

**Nay:** I thought and was thinking about it the whole time

**Michael:** That was very confusing

**Mark:** (fey voice) "I thought she was itchy. What?"

**Brennan:** She was in pain!

**Nay:** No…

**Michael:** Yeah, she was like trying to grab the walls…

**Nay:** I mean, it be like that sometimes. You know, earlier when you were talking about her orgasm sounds? I actually think those are the *least* unrealistic thing in the movie. I'm like yeah, I'm not saying it's like, I mean, there's a lot of diversity amongst humans. Maybe that is someone's orgasm…

**Michael:** True. Orgasm diversity?

**Nay:** But, I yeah. I'm just, the tub scene?

**Mark:** I felt like Sharon Stone was trying to sell this idea that y'know, she's working through something with this orgasm and I appreciated it

**Dave:** And it exhausts her…

**Nay:** Exactly

**Dave:** So that she basically falls asleep in the bathtub

**Nay:** Yes

**Dave:** Like you see her kind of go, and fall asleep, which is *not* at all safe

**Mark:** I wish that they had faded to black…

**Dave:** Yeah

**Mark:** And then cut to her, the phone ringing, her being like, "Oh! Bl-bl-bl-bl! Oh shit! I'm freezing!"

**Matt:** Screaming…

**Dave:** No hot water. It's very strange

**Michael:** You know, it's a very enclosed shower, too. I feel like she could suffocate in there

**Nay:** That little round…? I like tubs, myself

**Mark:** I like tubs as well

**Nay:** That little round tub

**Mark:** Oh, man

**Nay:** It *did* seem like she was working through something

**Michael:** It *did*!

**Nay:** Something's going on. I, yeah. She's in there alone...

**Michael:** Well, she's crying the first time they have sex, too

**Dave:** Something's going on

**Matt:** Were we meant to believe she had lost a child before…?

**Mark:** No, I got a breakup

**Matt:** I got a breakup…

**Mark:** When Judy initially harangues her about, (as Judy) "We're going to the opera! We're going to the opera! Opera! Opera! Pavarotti!"

**Matt:** Yeah. I hate Pavarotti

**Mark:** There's a moment that I, where she, you know, she hates looking in the mirror, but in one of the early mirror moments when she turns to the side and runs her stomach kind of… sadly?

**Dave:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** She does

**Matt:** I thought, "Is that telegraphing something?"

**Michael:** I kept rewinding that too, because she turns and looks and like, is almost shocked to see herself, but it's like a second too late…

**Matt:** Yeah

**Michael:** So I kept rewinding that moment, 'cause I was like, "What is she jumping at? Maybe it was her belly?"

**Matt:** And she doesn't want to go to the gym because of mirrors. "What are you, you're the most beautiful woman in the world."

**Nay:** She's got the most beautiful body…

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** You know what? That is a lesson. Even the people who are maybe the most quote-unquote "beautiful people", they got issues with their bodies

**Matt:** I guess *that's* the message of *Sliver*

**Dave:** Yeah. Love yourself

**Nay:** Yeah. It can happen to anyone

**Michael:** And that's why it's queer

**Mark:** Love yourself

**Dave:** We did it

**Mark:** We did it. We solved *Sliver*, everyone!

**Michael:** Also, C.C.H. Pounder, lesbian, right?

**Dave:** C.C.H...

**Mark:** It's like there's three times she shows up and it's like, (as C.C.H. Pounder) "Hi, Sharon. Back again. So, uh, what was it this time?"

**Dave:** I can't believe I had a chance to say "C.C.H. Pounder" and never took it

**Matt:** C.C.H. Pounder…

**Nay:** Ugh, I just love that name

**Michael:** So great

**Dave:** What were you gonna say?

**Matt:** Just that I miss her. And I want more of her. I mean, what else is there to say? *She* deserves a Pride float

**Mark:** She's- you know what?

**Michael:** She's a lesbian in this movie

**Mark:** She does. Because she's the only one walking around the movie going like…

**Michael:** "What the fuck is wrong with all of you?"

**Mark:** (as C.C.H. Pounder) "*Yeah*. *Okay*…"

**Michael:** Including the cops, too! They're all dicks as well

**Mark:** The cops are horrible

**Michael:** And she's like, "Put the key in the door."

**Matt:** Why was Berenger so close with the cops? He was like, "You guys all know me. This is my circle of friends."

**Michael:** Right?

**Dave:** I figure he does ride-alongs for like, y'know, research for his shitty books

**Michael:** Oh, right,

**Matt:** True crime

**Brennan:** He wrote *Dead Calm*. The cover of the book is the poster for *Dead Calm*

**Mark:** I know. Little Philip Noyce Easter egg there, huh?

**Michael:** That's a good movie

**Mark:** That's a good movie. If you wanna see Nicole Kidman get her hair washed with blood, rent *Dead Calm*

**Dave:** Interesting

**Matt:** Oooh

**Mark:** Available on iTunes and other platforms!

**Michael:** And Billy Zane

**Mark:** And Billy Zane, yeah. Billy Zane at his…

**Michael:** Peak

**Mark:** Billy Zane-iest

**Michael:** Yeah

**Dave:** Wow

**Mark:** Yeah. It's a good one. And Sam Neil

**Michael:** Brian and I are re-watching *Twin Peaks* and (Billy Zane) walked in and both of us completely forgot he was in that. He's dreamy

**Mark:** In season two?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** You guys…

**Dave:** We've *Sliver*-ed

**Mark:** We've *Sliver*-ed. Up and down that elevator

**Michael:** The elevator's the nicest part of the building. I'll tell you that

**Dave:** Oh, I do love that when it goes past floors, it goes, "**Whoosh!** **Whoosh!**" It was a nice touch

**Nay:** Right? And how fast is this thing going?

**Michael:** And also, what's it like, why?

**Dave:** Why? What does it mean?

**Mark:** Oh, man. You know, as problematic and crazy as this movie is, I *am* sort of weirdly grateful *to* its existence because it sounds like it was formative for everyone!

**Michael:** Of course!

**Matt:** Sure!

**Mark:** It really was that friend at Blockbuster sitting on the shelf winking at you, going like, "I see you, queen. Come find me."

**Brennan:** And also, was on the TV in Sharon Stone's apartment, I believe there was an interview with Christine Baranski playing, right?

**Dave:** Oh, wow

**Nay:** Oh I did not notice that

**Brennan:** That's why this movie is queer

**Matt:** There you go. There it is.

## **Previous Episode**

Episode 21: "Sister Wives" (w/ Joelle Monique!)

## **Next Episode**

Episode 23: “African American-cula” (w/ Xavier Burgin!)