Episode 18: "Jason Shaves Manhattan” (w/ Derek Dennis Herbert!)

*It’s week 3 of Listener Request Month, and at the behest of Patrick Hamilton we are discussing the ninth (and not final) Friday the 13th film, JASON GOES TO HELL: THE FINAL FRIDAY! Joining the queer wolves is Derek Dennis Herbert, the director of the documentary To Hell and Back: The Kane Hodder Story!   Mark reluctantly drags himself through the act of merely acknowledging that this movie exists, Michael gets lost in Lenny Kravitz daydreams, and Nay sneaks R-rated movies out of the video store.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on SHIRKERS, NAKED VENGEANCE, MARY POPPINS RETURNS, and… THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT?[1]*

## **Trivia**

Third episode of Listener Request Month. "We're coming to you live tonight from Movie Jail. Because that's the only place you can find tonight's cinematic trainwreck. Movie Jail. It's a jail for movies." Brennan is introduced as the show's producer-slash-trenchcoat wearing vigilante. Patrick Hamilton requested this episode's movie. First mention of *Nay's Yays or Nays*. Mark confirms that Michael is a really great cook.

Topics brought up during the episode: *They're Inside*, friend of the show Jeff Nelson, Scream Factory, women-in-prison rape-revenge double feature *Naked Vengeance* and *Vendetta* (1986), whoopie pies, Whole Foods whoopie pies, LaCroix, potato leek soup, chicken salad, Steven Spielberg, *Ready Player One* (movie), *Jaws*, *Close Encounters of the Third Kind*, *Poltergeist* (1982), *Duel*, *Jurassic Park, War of the Worlds* (2005), Zoe Kravitz, Zoe Kravitz on having a complex because of who her parents are, Lisa Bonet going from Lenny Kravitz to Jason Momoa, Steven Culp

## **Tea Time**

**Nay:** got "really really really high" and watched *The Butterfly Effect*

**Michael:** *Mary Poppins Returns*, which he really, genuinely dislikes

Mark: *Shirkers* (link to articles about the movie), *Naked Vengeance*

**Mark:** It's fabulous, it's such a great doc, check it out check it out check it out

**Derek:** rewatching *Twin Peaks: The Return*, *Lincoln*

## **Shady Summaries**

**Nay:** Speaking of *Rebecca*, this is the shady summary I used for *Rebecca*. What a fucking mess. And it's the same one I'm using for this

**Michael:** A movie so incoherent and sloppy it just secured the 2020 nomination

**Mark:** The fans asked, and New Line delivered. Finally, a *Friday the 13th* movie that feels like it was made by people who'd never seen a *Friday the 13th* movie before

**Derek:** A *Friday the 13th* movie for people who don't like Jason. Because it's true. It's sort of true. You have Kane Hodder as Jason, someone like him who everyone's revved up, saying he's the best part of the eighth movie, the seventh movie and all of a sudden you have him in ten seconds of the beginning and the end of this movie

**Michael:** You know it's interesting that you bring that up. A person who hates Jason the most? Sean Cunningham. He has many times in the past said that he does not like the character of Jason. This is the first movie he came back to produce since the original. So I don't think it's a coincidence, and I hate to put words into his mouth, but he's said that many times in documentaries and stuff, so I think it's fair to say

## **Quotes**

**Mark:** (to Derek) You've heard the show before, so you roughly know what kind of trash talk happens on our show. All right, so, let's delay until we have to actually introduce the movie we're discussing today. I'm literally doing this because Brennan has a soft spot for this movie and now I'm just gonna fuckin' go all in

**Nay: *Yes!***

**Brennan:** I'm ready to play devil's advocate today

**Mark:** *UGH.* God. All right, here we go

**Michael:** Good luck

**Michael:** Oh my God, yes! I love your old choices!

**Nay:** (*The Butterfly Effect*) was *amazing*!

**Mark:** So deep? So deep.

**Nay:** Oh my God, I was *living* for it

**Mark:** Ah, Ashton...

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** The Kutch

**Nay:** Ashton!

**Michael:** The Kutcher

**Mark:** The Kutch

**Nay:** I was, it was *so* good

**Mark:** (dudebro voice) The Kutch!

**Michael:** (dudebro voice) Ashton Kutcher from *Dude, Where's My Car?*

**Mark:** Can I ask what sort of coalesced to make this...

**Michael:** How did this happen?

**Mark:** Make this situation happen?

**Nay:** Well, I mean, not much, to be honest

**Michael:** Marijuana?

**Nay:** Yeah. I mean it was gonna happen anyway, and then I was like, "I need a break from the film we're about to discuss. Like, lemme watch something I like."

**Mark:** Oh wow

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** I mean, using *The Butterfly Effect* as a palate cleanser--

**Michael:** Wait. So many questions

**Mark:** Screams desperation, screams a level of desperation that I'm like, "I want to hug you." If you weren't across the table I would

**Michael:** There's so many questions I have, and I'm gonna ask them

**Mark:** I would be like, "Come to mama, just come here."

**Michael:** Did you seek out *The Butterfly Effect*

**Nay:** No! No.

**Michael:** Okay, so. You were searching for anything...

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Found *The Butterfly Effect*...

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** And said, "This is it."

**Nay:** And I was like, "You know what? I really like that, I wanna watch that."

**Michael:** How long did you search for a movie?

**Nay:** Not even that long

**Michael:** (groan of disappointment) I was hoping you'd say like an hour, *The Butterfly Effect* was the one that was like, "This is it."

**Nay:** No, I searched longer on PornHub for the right movie, you know? I'm like, page fifty-eight and I'm like, "Skip five."

**Michael:** I feel you there

**Mark:** *The Butterfly Effect* is on PornHub?

**Nay:** (chuckles) No.

**Dennis**: It probably is

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** I mean maybe!

**Derek:** I mean, a lot of movies get uploaded

**Michael:** There's probably a cut of it up there.

**Mark:** It's true!

**Michael:** Is Stifler in that?

**Nay:** No

**Derek:** It's probably called something else, though

**Mark:** It's the "Butt version".

**Michael:** Amy Smart's in that, right?

**Nay:** Amy Smart is amazing

**Michael:** It's so good. Isn't Amy Smart in that?

**Mark:** Doesn't- in one timeline she's like, "I'm on drugs."

**Nay:** Yeah!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** And Ashton's like, (dude voice) "Oh my gawd, I'm so sad!"

**Nay:** Okay, listen.

**Michael:** (dude voice) "We have to save her!"

**Mark:** (dude voice) "We have to save her!" I dunno. That's not how he talks

**Nay:** I hate both of you. I can't stand either of you. This movie is trippy because I think, I don't know about anyone else, but I often think about decisions I've made in my life...

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** Sure

**Nay:** And have wondered what would turn out differently, of course, right, we all do that? But it's, *The Butterfly Effect,* it's just so striking sometimes to see the difference in Amy Smart's lifetimes, because one, she kills herself when she's a drug addict. One, is like, "Oh, my father didn't molest me, so I'm a college student now." I dunno. There's just like, when I think about the effects of poverty and abuse and trauma, you know, it's just like...

**Michael:** That movie gets pretty dark

**Nay:** Yeah!

**Michael:** It actually really does

**Nay:** Yeah. So fuck both of you

**Mark:** I totally feel bad now. I feel really bad

**Michael:** Forgot about all that

**Mark:** Nay like...

**Nay:** (mocking Mark): "Nay needs a hug!"

**Mark:** Nay's like, (serious voice) "Actually, there's a lot going on in *The Butterfly Effect*," (normal voice) and I'm like, (sotto voce) "Oh shit. Okay."

**Michael:** Put us in our place

**Mark:** Let's just be quiet. Just gonna sit quietly

**Nay:** Also, Thumper? The roommate getting laid? Fat person getting laid? I feel like when I was young, I was like, "Praise God."

**Michael:** I need to see this movie

**Mark:** You're describing entire chunks of the movie that I have no recollection of, so now clearly- I'm like, "Fuck. Do I need to revisit *The Butterfly Effect*?"

**Michael:** Yeah, do I need- is there a queer element? Maybe we could do it for the show

**Nay:** No, no. I won't make y'all do that

**Michael:** I told Nay today that what I want *An Hour With Nay*, as a special for the show

**Nay:** Oh, God

**Michael:** Where it's just Nay talking for an hour and *I'm* her studio audience. So you just hear my reactions, nothing else

**Nay:** I can't

**Michael:** I would watch the *shit* out of a talk show with Nay

**Mark:** I know. I would too, actually

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** After you shame my choices

**Michael:** Hell no

**Nay:** (mockingly) "Actually I would totally support you and listen!"

**Michael:** Didn't you say something- *wow*! She is putting us in our place

**Mark:** I know, she really is!

**Michael:** Didn't you say something about her doing a segment called "Yay or Nay"?

**Mark:** No, it was going to be called "Nay's Yay or Nays"

**Michael:** (giggling) Yes! That has to happen!

**Mark:** And it would be like, Nay every week, sort of having her own segment where she's like...

**Michael:** It would be like *Cheers and Jeers*

**Mark:** Yes, exactly. "Yes to this, no to this."

**Michael:** We have to do this

**Nay:** Okay, well if y'all listeners want that, I need you to hit me up on Twitter or Instagram and let me know.

**Michael:** Yes!

**Mark:** Please do. *Nay's Yays or Nays*

**Nay:** *Nay's Yays or Nays*. I can't

**Michael:** I'm just gonna find Mark dead in the parking lot later

**Mark:** Pretty much

**Nay:** Later?

**Michael:** Oooh!

**Mark:** Why are you mad at me? What did I do?

**Nay:** I'm actually not. Nothing. I'm not!

**Mark:** Oh my God!

**Michael:** This is when the show's at its finest

**Michael:** I hated that fucking movie

**Nay:** It sounds fucking awful

**Michael:** It is just *so* boring

**Brennan:** (bad cockney accent) What didn't ya like, Michael?

**Michael:** That. It was a rough movie. It was a movie I really wanted to see over the holidays 'cause it looked joyous and fun, and I've said many times in the past year that I look for that kind of entertainment right now and, uh…

**Mark:** I just thought it was brave that Meryl dusted off her old *Sophie's Choice* accent

**Michael:** Actually, she was my favorite part of the movie

**Mark:** My problem was that they brought her a bowl to fix and then they never went back for the bowl

**Michael:** Yeah. I mean, there's just so much going on in the movie, it doesn't make sense

**Mark:** I felt like Meryl, they were like, "Oh, Meryl's available. Uhhhhh, she'll fix the bowl!" You know? And whatever, and she had one scene

**Michael:** And sing a song

**Derek:** Because Rob Marshall had worked with her on *Into the Woods*

**Mark:** Right

**Derek:** And I think he was like, "Hey! We can get her back, we'll get her in here."

**Michael:** "How do we get her in here?"

**Derek:** "Ah, she hasn't had a day to prepare, so let's just pull out one of the, you know, trademark..."

**Mark:** Carrot Top wigs

**Derek:** "Carrot Top wigs and an Eastern European accent that literally..."

**Michael:** "And put her in an upside-down room..."

**Derek:** "Wouldn't be the choice of anyone to do." (bad Eastern European accent) 'Yes, we topsy-turvy!' (normal voice) You do it one time and that was her whole performance, was just the general Eastern European, kind of Romanian Czech republic kind of accent as opposed to- I wanted to love it...

**Michael:** Same!

**Derek:** I enjoyed the ride, but looking back...

**Michael:** Some of the music was great

**Derek:** It was sort of like a rehashing of the original with no original, it felt like the took the original story and remade it but didn't make it any better

**Michael:** Well, the other thing I didn't get is, you're gonna put someone with the talent of Lin-Manuel Miranda, and not just his writing talent, you're not going to have him write **A** song. I don't get it. Why wouldn't you have him write any of the music? I dunno. I'm just like...

**Mark:** The group I watched it with, we started to feel funny when Emily Blunt got in the bath with the kids

**Nay:** Ewwww. Gay.

**Mark:** We were like (groan of discomfort)

**Michael:** Was Mary Poppins in the original, I haven't seen it, I wanted to watch it. Was she...

**Mark:** A fascist? A quasi-fascist (unintelligible)

**Michael:** A talky bitch

**Nay:** Oh yeah!

**Mark:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** She was?

**Nay:** Yes

**Mark:** She is not cuddly

**Michael:** I was like, I totally don't remember that

**Nay:** She ain't takin' no fuckin' shit from nobody

**Mark:** No. She's like, "Fuck you, I live in the sky."

**Michael:** She's not really nice

**Nay:** No!

**Derek:** I remember in the original, she says to the parents pretty much the equivalent of, "You're horrible parents..."

**Michael:** She's not wrong

**Derek:** "I'm the one raising your kids. Shape up or I'll leave."

**Mark:** "I'm practically perfect in every way."?

**Derek:** Exactly. "Or I'll leave when my job is done."

**Michael:** Okay. I couldn't remember and wanted to watch the original, but there was no way I was paying twenty-five dollars to buy that, 'cause that's the only way you can watch it right now

**Nay:** Oh, really?

**Michael:** Yeah. It's very Disney

**Derek:** Soon it'll be on Disney's streaming platform

**Michael:** Which I still won't mention

**Derek:** Which will be the only place you can watch any Disney movies, soon

**Mark:** *Wow*

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Mark:** What a racket

**Nay:** Fuck that bitch for sure, tho

**Michael:** So yeah, fuck you *Mary Poppins Returns*

**Mark:** Yeah, quasi-fascist

**Michael:** At least Ben Whishaw's cute

**Mark:** I am a major Ben Whishaw stan, and if you want to see a great Ben Whishaw performance--

**Michael:** Of his dreamy hair at the Golden Globes?

**Mark:** *A Very British Scandal*, that he won the Golden Globe for?

**Michael:** I hear that's excellent

**Mark:** Fanntastic

**Michael:** I didn't know he was queer

**Mark:** Yes he is

**Brennan:** We should have him on the show!

**Michael:** Absolutely

**Mark:** (femme voice) Ben, if you're listening….

**Michael:** We'll have you on right after Lebron James

**Mark:** Exactly

**Mark:** (Michael and I) watched *Naked Vengeance*. Holy. Shit. Holy shit. *Naked Vengeance*, you guys, if you have not seen *Naked Vengeance*, **TRIGGER WARNING**

**Michael:** Huge

**Mark:** *Huge* trigger, trigger warning! I don't even know. Flashing neon?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** But if that's not a deterrent for you, or it somehow makes the movie more attractive to you, you are in for a depraved treat. It is--

**Nay:** It sounds wonderful

**Mark:** And I don't like rape-revenge

**Michael:** Same. But this *Vengeance* was...

**Mark:** But the vengeance was really good

**Michael:** The vengeance was great

**Nay:** Ooooh. That sounds *really* great

**Michael:** Yeah, it's the type of movie...

**Mark:** This is the type of movie where the lead actress, who played Phyllis on *Dallas* for like ten years, she sings the theme song

**Nay:** Oh, fuck

**Mark:** You know? That's what we're...

**Michael:** This is the movie we were watching, we were like, Nay would either be appalled that we're watching this, or be like, "Oh fuck yeah."

**Mark:** We were like, she'd either be mad that we brought her over here to watch this or she'd be like, "We're watching it again!"

**Michael:** 'This is awesome!'

**Mark:** Anywho, *Naked Vengeance*. You've been warned

**Michael:** And *Vendetta*

**Mark:** *Vendetta* I didn't love

**Michael:** I mean, I loved the constant kicking. There was a lot of kick-fighting in this movie. Lots of kick-fighting

**Mark:** Oh my God, it was like big-hair jail, kind of

**Michael:** Yeah. Women with closets in their prison cell with like various outfits and makeup and (sighs)

**Mark:** Yeah. It was, suffice to say, not a *truthful* portrayal of the prison system

**Michael:** But also, she got her *Vendetta* on

**Mark:** She got her vengeance

**Michael:** It was a really great night, and I still had my dead Christmas tree up

**Mark:** It was like January sixth, and Michael was like, (as Michael) "I dunno. I guess it'll eventually decompose."

**Michael:** (as Mark pretending to be him) "I've been writing that script all week, so like, Brian's gonna be mad when he gets back from Paris, but tree's still up."

**Mark:** I love Dakota Fanning in (*War of the Worlds*) because she delivered the kind of child performance where it seemed like she had no idea she was in a movie

**Michael:** Oh my God

**Mark:** Where you literally are like, "Is she okay?"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** Like Danny Pintauro in *Cujo*

**Michael:** Oh my God. I just watched the *Who's the Boss E! True Hollywood Story* by the way

**Mark:** Wow

**Michael:** Thank you. And that was mentioned in there. He was like *three* when they did that

**Nay:** Jesus

**Michael:** Three or four

**Mark:** All I know is is that performance is very good and it's not acting

**Michael:** He's great

**Mark:** He is like, "I was like, 'They told you that dog was gonna eat you.'"

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** It's kind of like Heather O'Rourke in *Poltergeist* (1982)

**Mark:** Oh. God

**Michael:** She gives an all-time performance there and you almost wonder if she knew what she was doing, you know what I mean?

**Mark:** R.I.P.

**Michael:** I know

**Derek:** There's a lot of, it's crazy. Then you get some child actors that you're like, "Good God, Did they *cast* this movie? Or did they pull them off the street and throw 'em up there?"

**Michael:** There's a weird thing about child actors, too, where it's like they almost become aware that they're an actor, and you can see them become that. You see that a lot in eighties and nineties sitcoms. Keshia Knight Pulliam is a good example- pulling this out of my ass. She was Emmy-nominated for the first two years of *The Cosby Show*. As a five and a six-year old. And then you watch her by the time season five or six rolls around and she's like a self-aware preteen, and it's like--

**Nay:** Oh yeah! 'Cause she got upstaged by Raven Symoné. Like, "You're not the cute baby anymore."

**Mark:** That's true. Raven Symoné turned up on that show and you know Keshia Knight Pulliam was like, "Oh shit, I'd better up my game."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. They were like, "I don't give a fuck about her no more."

**Michael:** I wanna see the *E! True Hollywood Story* of that duel

**Nay:** Okay?

**Mark:** Yeah, Rudy, she was like, "Oh shit. Rudy's gonna get into an accident. There's gonna be a very special episode where Rudy's gonna get into an accident and be off the show."

**Michael:** (as Raven Symoné) "Aw, did you choke on my Teddy Grahams? I'm sorry."

**Mark:** Yeah, exactly

**Nay:** Little baby Raven Symoné's like, "I'm gonna be *so* problematic in the future that no one is ever gonna give a shit about you, girl."

**Mark:** Olivia's gonna be like, was her name Olivia?

**Michael:** Yeah, it was. She couldn't even read the scripts when she started on that show because she didn't know how to read. She was three

**Nay:** Oh my God. And she was just around that rapist all the time. Awful.

**Michael:** Awful

**Mark:** That's why I love Lisa Bonet, now and forever

**Michael:** Always

**Mark:** Because Lisa Bonet was like, "You're a creep, and I'm gonna get off this show. I'm gonna get my own spin-off. Not only that--"

**Michael:** "I'm gonna quit it after a year."

**Mark:** "Not only that, I'm going to violate your cutesy American image. I'm gonna go fuck Mickey Rourke in this other movie, and I'm gonna do a bunch of voodoo shit."

**Michael:** "And you're still gonna bring me back on the show for a paycheck in season seven.'

**Mark:** I love that Derek before the show is like, "So, uh, is there anything I can't say on the show?" And I'm just like, "Nooo. No. We're gonna talk about Lenny Kravitz's dong flopping out."

**Michael:** "Say words like Aquadick."

**Mark:** We've delayed the inevitable long enough

**Michael:** I know

**Mark:** After Jason took Manhattan, or more specifically, a medium-sized passenger ship off the coast of British Columbia, you thought, "Gee! It will never be this bad again. Things can only get better from here, right?" Guess again, motherfuckers! As part of our month of listener picks, Patrick Hamilton. Patrick. Patrick.

**Michael:** We need to talk about Patrick

**Mark:** We need to talk about Patrick? Chose *Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday*

**Michael:** Thank you, Patrick

**Mark:** To prove to us once and for all, that no, we cannot have nice things. Now before we tear this bitch apart, let's check in with Patrick to find out what on Earth we ever did to him to deserve this. Take it away, Brennan

**Brennan:** I will say that I love Patrick, first of all. He's an incredible person

**Michael:** Thank you for donating to The Trevor Project

**Mark:** I'm sure he's lovely, for a sociopath, he's lovely

**Nay:** (chuckling) Oh my God!

**Brennan:** Also, I also love *Jason Takes Manhattan* but whatever

**Patrick Hamilton on why he chose** *Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday***:** My name is Patrick Hamilton. And as a result of making a donation to The Trevor Project, I was rewarded with the ability to choose a movie for y'all to discuss, and I chose the 1993 epic *Jason Goes to Hell*. Why? Something's going on here that requires a healthy dose of the Queerwolf theory. So Jason's blown up in the opening minutes of his normal, heteronormative stalking as it were, and spends the rest of the movie sliding his enchanted heartworm down the throats of as many men as he possibly can for the majority of the runtime. A bounty hunter requires that a guy pass his hands through the bars of a jail cell, let him fondle them and then *break* them in order to get information. And then of course, Jason also strips a guy nude, straps him to a sex harness and shaves his mustache! Is this as deliberate as a *Freddy's Revenge* or *Lost Boys*? Or is it just the byproduct of New Line Cinema trying to ripoff *Terminator 2*?

**Michael:** I wanna hear a book on tape by Patrick

**Nay:** *Okay??*

**Michael:** I want him to read to me

**Michael:** He brought a perspective

**Nay:** I wish Patrick was here, right now

**Michael:** I do, too. How 'bout you, Mark?

**Mark:** I mean, I, yeah, I wish I could do this to his face. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I joke.

**Michael:** I *love* Mark!

**Mark:** Patrick, I kid, I kid

**Derek:** I will say he was a little loose with the word "epic" though. Of all the movies- *Jason X*, I could see the word "epic" being applied to because of scale, it was an epic scale film. But this one's a little, uh...

**Mark:** You know what? I agree.

**Michael:** I want him to read me a book. Patrick

**Mark:** What book?

**Michael:** *Rebecca*

**Mark:** It always goes back to *Rebecca*

**Mark:** I want to start out by saying, you know, shading Patrick and everything, that I appreciate the gusto with which he sort of launched into- and obviously he suggested this tongue-in-cheek

**Michael:** Very clearly

**Mark:** Very clearly. So I totally understand that. However, however. The first line of dialogue in this movie is the word, "Shit," which, you know, just feels foreboding for the next hundred minutes. Was it a hundred minutes? It felt like three hun- it felt so long. The nicest thing I can say about this movie, about *Jason Goes to Hell*, is that in a certain way, you know, it came out in 1993 and in a completely inept way it anticipates the meta horror wave of the nineties, of *New Nightmare* and *Scream* because of its inclusion of things like the Necronomicon and the jungle gym that the birds sit on from *The Birds*, and the crate from *Creepshow*. So the fact that these things are present point to a kind of playfulness and sense of humor that unfortunately the movie literally cannot seem to do anything with. But it feels, but watching it, I was like, okay, this feels like the opening salvo of where horror...

**Michael:** Where horror was going to go at the time?

**Mark:** Where horror was going to go in that decade

**Michael:** Well I think the opening scene plays into that as well. I look at the opening scene as like a meta moment as well. You have the, you know, bosomy woman alone in a cabin taking a shower and she's doing all the things that you do

**Mark:** That's her credit, "Bosomy Woman"

**Nay:** "Bosomy Woman"

**Mark:** "Bosomy Woman"

**Michael:** "Bosomy Woman." But they have her live, and it's on purpose, doing all the tropes of a *Friday the 13th* movie that usually gets female characters killed

**Mark:** Have you seen, have you guys seen *Crystal Lake Memories*, the documentary?

**Michael:** Absolutely

**Mark:** So I watched the *Jason Goes to Hell* segment for this, and they actually interview the actress who played...

**Michael:** Played the FBI agent?

**Mark:** Right. And she was talking about...

**Nay:** She fine

**Michael:** Yeah. Right?

**Nay:** She fine as hell

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Mark:** And I'm quoting her basically, but she was just like, "The director Adam didn't like my hair. And I said, 'Honey, if they're looking at my hair in this scene and not my knockers, then I don't know what to do!'" Or something like that

**Michael:** Yeah she did

**Derek:** Knockers

**Mark:** And I was like, "Wow, you called them knockers."

**Michael:** Knockers. Knockers

**Derek:** Maybe she was direct quoting what she said in 1993, though

**Mark:** She must have been

**Michael:** She had to have been

**Mark:** I don't think she got *less* salty

**Derek:** I hope she's not stuck in the nineties

**Mark:** Yeah, exactly

**Michael:** *I* think that sequence is actually pretty clever. It's the only good part of the movie. It feels like a *Friday the 13th* movie in that moment, and then, of course

**Mark:** They blow up Jason

**Michael:** Yeah, it's like maybe it should have been a short

**Mark:** And then they blow up Jason and Sheriff David Clarke is there. Literally Sheriff David Clarke. It's David Clarke. And he's in the woods and I don't understand what's happening. Then he's interviewed on television on like *A Current Affair*. And then they started doing this thing where he's like, "When you think of Jason Voorhees, what do you think of?"

(Brennan plays the clip of the interview scene from the movie with Creighton Duke answering)

**Steven Culp:** I'm gonna say some words to you, Mister Duke, and I want you to say the first things that come to your mind, okay?

**Creighton Duke:** Okay

**Steven Culp:** You ready?

**Creighton Duke:** Shoot

**Steven Culp:** Jason Voorhees

**Creighton Duke:** Now that makes me think of a little girl in a pink dress, stickin' a hot dog through a donut

**Mark:** *What? **What? Why??*** I don't under- what??

**Michael:** I don't think the filmmakers knew either, 'cause wasn't there some sort of agreement that he would do the movie only if he could dress as a cowboy?

**Mark:** Yes, that is correct

**Michael:** What the hell?

**Brennan:** Is he the Jennifer Coolidge of horror movie bit parts?

**Derek:** That was a great reference

**Michael:** That was a real good pull!

**Mark:** Now if Jennifer Coolidge had played the mercenary

**Michael:** Had *she* said that?

**Mark:** (as Jennifer Coolidge) "Oh, honey, you're gonna..."

**Michael:** If she said like, (as Jennifer Coolidge) "Pink dress putting a hot dog," I would have been on the fucking ground laughing like, "This movie's a genius!"

**Mark:** This would've been a very different podcast. I would have been like, "This is the greatest *Friday the 13th* film ever made."

**Michael:** They said he was just saying shit on takes

**Mark:** Yeah

**Michael:** They had no idea what any of it meant or that any of it was coming, and I guess they were probably like, "Well, we gotta use some of this, because we don't have scenes otherwise."

**Mark:** I guess

**Derek:** When talking with Kane about this movie, the biggest thing he kept saying was that he liked the idea of it

**Michael:** It's an interesting idea

**Derek:** Yeah. I can't say it's a bad idea, the idea that Jason would go into it. But (Kane) was also the stunt coordinator and he was trying really hard to, he wanted all the actors to *be* Jason when they got turned

**Michael:** Right

**Derek:** He thought it would be a good acting role for them as well

**Michael:** To do all the nuances and stuff?

**Derek:** To do all the nuances. Turn the head, do the heavy breathing

**Mark:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Yeah

**Derek:** You know, all that kind of stuff, he thought it could work, but half of them or more didn't want to do that. Like, "Oh, no. Jason in my body would just be me." And it doesn't make a whole lot of sense

**Michael:** It doesn't

**Derek:** You have a persona...

**Mark:** Imagine, imagine me, an actor who is lucky to be cast in a studio film and part of a venerable slasher franchise, and you have the guy who's played Jason three times, who's become the fan favorite, who's literally sort of like, I guess, has quote-unquote perfected the role to a certain degree telling you how to do it and you're like, "Mmm, no. At the Sunshine Do-ray Acting School, I learned that blah blah blah fart noise." I just, wow

**Derek:** Agreed

**Nay:** He was like, "No. Jason as a Black man acts like this."

**Mark:** I don't know

**Derek:** There are just so many parts- the beginning I really liked. And that ending, it has the cool fight sequence at the end, I don't dislike the ending. But that whole middle is just garbage fire. It's awful

**Mark:** (defeatedly) Yeah

**Michael:** It goes from Youngstown to New Jersey...

**Derek:** To a diner that for some reason Leslie Jordan...

**Mark:** The guy from *Sordid Lives*?

**Derek:** Exactly

**Michael:** There are some interesting ideas, like the Voorhees burger is another meta moment where we're kind of like...

**Derek:** And waffles that are cut up like...

**Michael:** Yeah, it's just like... I dunno, man

**Derek:** There are so many things in that movie that don't make a whole lot of sense. Because why wouldn't we have known about uh, can I reveal something in the movie?

**Michael:** Yeah, you can spoil it

**Mark:** No, please preserve the beautiful secrets of *Jason Goes to Hell*

**Derek:** How the fuck didn't we know (Jason) had a sister?

**Michael:** Right

**Derek:** In *all* the other movies, they didn't think to mention, like couldn't they have just thrown a line in like- but they couldn't, because in the first movie and the second movie, you know, especially the first one with the mom, she would have had to have said something along the lines of, "Well, your sister…" or something. But no, she doesn't, so it sort of becomes the *Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom* of the franchise

**Mark:** ***Woof***

**Derek:** Where all of the sudden you have a character that you *should've* heard of in the first movie or second, and other than a brief reference, well in that franchise is a brief reference like, "Myself and some business partners," in the first couple movies and then we're to assume he has another business partner

**Mark:** Exactly

**Derek:** But in this one, they didn't mention anything! They didn't say anything about a sister and I feel like that was a huge way for them to be like, "Oh, we're gonna do what they did in *Halloween*! We're gonna make up that he had a sister then too."

**Michael:** People actually have given *Scream 4* a little bit of grief in the past for Sidney having a cousin that she never mentioned before and I'm like, "When is she going to mention her cousin during any of this?"

**Derek:** Listen. Cousin is understandable.

**Michael:** Yes

**Derek:** But a sibling, you'd think that the mother would reference

**Mark:** Over the course of eight movies...

**Michael:** It could just be a long lost family member or, you know what I mean?

**Derek:** Exactly. A Voorhees...

**Michael:** Look. *Jason Goes to Hell* is the junk drawer of slasher movies. It's just like, what, I dunno. A tape dispenser, old gum, whatever. It's all in there

**Mark:** Around forty-five minutes into this movie I just wrote, "I wanna die." These are other things I wrote in my notebook while I was watching: "Why is this happening?" "Why make these choices?" "I'm so angry." And then there are just variations on "What?"

**Michael:** "Who?"

**Mark:** "Why?" "Huh?" And ,"Uch." That's literally- like I am usually very, I try to take a lot of detailed notes for the things we cover and I was just like, "You win, *Jason Goes to Hell*. You win." I don't, I don't know what to say

**Michael:** I just love when the coroner takes a bite out of the heart. Just like, "Huh?"

**Derek:** Yeah, I always thought--

**Michael:** He's supposed to be hypnotized by the heart, apparently?

**Derek:** Yeah, I always thought that it made sense. In previous watchings, I didn't question it as much. First of all I didn't remember it had any queer themes until you guys were like, "There are plenty of queer themes in it." And I was like, maybe I didn't watch this movie clear enough. There were definitely some, many of them there. But I did not remember how weird--

**Mark:** *Are there*?

**Derek:** Well, it's debatable. It's debatable

**Michael:** Yeah, I don't find it to be a queer movie in that way

**Derek:** There are many things in the movie

**Mark:** Some do, though

**Derek:** I mean, when I googled it just to see what people were also talking about before I watched it- this is on the list, not the top three, but it's in the top ten homoerotic horror films of a lot of lists

**Mark:** *Who are these homosexuals*?

**Michael:** It's only because of the shaving scene?

**Derek:** That scene, plus the fact that of all the decisions they could have made, Jason only goes to other men until the baby and the girl? But he goes into a lot of men before women

**Michael:** Yeah

**Derek:** But still, that to my opinion was Jason is a male, he might wanna remain a male while he's on a quest y'know

**Michael:** Watching this movie made me think, leaning to embrace bad films...

**Mark:** I just, I just, I dunno. Listen, no disrespect to anyone who watches *Jason Goes to Hell* and is like, "Oh, I detect queer themes!" Myself, watching rando guys try to slip each other a turdworm, I don't watch that and go, (fey voice) "Representation!" (normal voice) I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm just like, I don't know, I don't know what to say. I mean...

**Michael:** Well there's a lot of just because Jason's in other people's bodies too, why does he start doing things that he doesn't do. Like shaving somebody. Why? *Why?* Why is he doing that?

**Derek:** Yeah, what purpose does that serve him?

**Mark:** If he'd shaved his ass, maybe homoerotic. But you know what?

**Michael:** Or his taint

**Mark:** Or his taint. Then I would have been like, "All right, *Jason Goes to Hell. Jason Shaves Manhattan*."

**Michael:** Nay, what do you think?

**Nay:** I wanted to see it *so* bad when I was younger because I saw the cover of it in Blockbuster

**Michael:** Me too!

**Mark:** With the worm thing coming out?

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** And "The Final Friday" on it, it says? Yeah

**Nay:** And I was like, "That- Hell is in the name, that must be *such a bad movie*. I wanna see it so bad."

**Mark:** "A bad kid movie!"

**Nay:** Yeah, you know, exactly. Bad kid movie

**Mark:** "Bad kids watch this!"

**Nay:** And I remember walking by it with my mom being like, "Oh, that's the devil." 'Cause my mom, she was like--

**Michael:** DAB?

**Nay:** Yeah, DAB. You know

**Michael:** God bless DAB

**Nay:** She was like, "That's the devil." And I was like, "Clearly. It looks like the devil."

**Mark:** "And you can get the devil for three nights at Blockbuster! Plus a tub of popcorn and a Diet Coke!"

**Michael:** Awww, I miss Hollywood Video

**Mark:** I know

**Nay:** So yeah, I was dying to see it. I remember, you know I don't remember liking it as much as I liked *Halloween* when I was younger. I feel like *Halloween* was my everything. But I felt so *cool* for having seen it. And I liked to tell my friends, "You know that cover the youth pastor brought up last week for..."

**Michael:** Oh my God

**Nay:** You know, I'd be like, (whispers) "I saw that." Yeah

**Michael:** And what would they say?

**Nay:** Oh, bad kid behavior, you know?

**Mark:** Did they tell on you?

**Nay:** No

**Michael:** That's good.

**Mark:** How did you sneak it? How did you finally sneak it?

**Nay:** Because the thing is, those kids were doing *all* kinds of wild shit. Christian school kids are wild as fuck

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Mark:** Yeah

**Nay:** And I was sneaking movies, but I wasn't doing the shit they were doing

**Mark:** Oh yeah, no

**Nay:** And so like, yeah, 'You could tell on me for that, but like--'

**Mark:** Oh, no. Cigarettes and handjobs. Yeah

**Nay: "Y**ou like fucked your cousin."

**Mark:** Christian kids are...

**Michael:** Oh my God!

**Nay:** "There's other like..."

**Michael:** You're like, "Oh my God, ew! Ya cousin fucker."

**Nay:** Oh, but how did I sneak it?

**Mark:** Yeah

**Nay: '**Cause I looked like a grown-ass woman at that age. I looked old as hell. I was such a big fucking kid.

**(Everyone laughs hard)**

**Mark:** I just was not expecting that!

**Nay:** I used to sneak all kinds of things 'cause people thought I was old. I would stay in the pool during adult time. Like, because, nobody thought my five-foot ten ass was a child

**Mark:** You were really tall from an early age

**Nay:** Yeah. I've been this tall for a long time, and so...

**Mark:** Ugh, see

**Michael:** (while laughing) Stayed in the pool at adult time

**Nay:** Hell yeah! You ain't gonna question me. Who gonna check me, boo? Honestly, I was like, *so* tall. And you know with Black people they're like, "She could be nine, she could be fifty-five, like I don't know."

**Michael:** (while laughing) This is why I want Nay hour!

**Nay:** So yeah. Rented that.

**Mark:** That is an incredible advantage of a certain age in the video store

**Nay:** Yeah. Yeah. There are times when it's an advantage...

**Mark:** Oh my God!

**Nay:** Sometimes you're like, "Oh my God of *course* I'm annoying everyone. I'm *eleven*. Let me be a child." And then other times you're like...

**Mark:** Did you find yourself getting disciplined or treated...

**Nay:** Yes!

**Mark:** Or expected to be old, or behave- I think you know the question I'm about to ask

**Nay:** There's a lot of articles, actually, on how tall children get treated versus just smaller, petite children

**Michael:** I don't know why I just flashed on that *30 Rock* where Liz Lemon thinks she's talking to Oprah the whole flight and it just ends up being a very tall twelve-year-old girl

**Nay:** I think that probably happened to me by a lot of white women on drugs when I was a kid. They saw me as an older Black woman

**Michael:** Nay's Yay or Nays, I need it now. Spin-off show? Seriously

**Mark:** It's just it's own show!

**Michael:** Nine to fifty-five should be the title

**Nay:** (To Mark) Are you crying?

**Mark:** A little bit!

**Michael:** Instead of *Nine to Five*, *Nine to Fifty-five* should be the title

**Nay:** Oh my God, you're awful

**Michael:** I love when Mark gets super super super happy laughy

**Mark:** Listen, okay, I mean this movie just from the get-go, it just has me punchy as fuck

**Michael:** Oh that's right, we're talking about that movie

**Mark:** I know, remember we have to talk about *Jason Goes to Hell*. Anyway.

**Mark:** So we talked about the ***deeply homoerotic shaving scene***, which (sarcastically) *oooooh, so sexy*!

**Michael:** Derek, what were you gonna say?

**Derek:** Truthfully, that's one of the things I was gonna say is, I didn't really *see* any of the stuff that had been brought up.

**Mark:** Yeah

**Derek:** They're quick to call it that, but I think a lot of the times, it's just when you do things that you would normally do with women, it's sort of the *Friday the 13th Part* no, *Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2* issue. I mean that movie has- when *all* subtext lies, when the acting goes homoerotic. The dialogue, the special effects, everything? It doesn't become as subtle any more. But with this one I feel like it could've just been a case of, "Jason was doing things to guys that he usually did to women." So he would usually, and I don't think he would normally tie anyone up. That's one of the things...

**Michael:** He would never shave anyone

**Derek:** He would never tie and shave up anyone. I feel like if he had...

**Mark:** Or barf up a turdworm

**Derek:** Exactly. That's the thing. I don't understand that transfer. I think that could've been done very differently, too. Like why did it have to be a big warty tongue? Couldn't it have been like a...

**Michael:** A touch?

**Mark:** Anything

**Derek:** Exactly. I dunno.

**Mark:** Anything else

**Derek:** He cuts them with a machete and then like--

**Mark:** Finger them. *Then* I'll be like, "It's homoerotic."

**Nay:** Yes!

**Mark:** Do you know what I mean? I dunno

**Michael:** Finger their- I'm not even gonna say it

**Mark:** Okay, I do wanna talk about the one sequence in the movie that feels like it's from a *Friday the 13th* movie. Which is not the opening, but at the midpoint, which apparently was done during reshoots because the movie did not feel *anything* like a *Friday the 13th* movie that fans would be expecting and so they did this reshoot with this guy and Michelle Clunie from *Queer as Folk*, and another woman.

Halfway through the movie these people show up and they think Jason is dead, they're hitchhiking to go to Camp Crystal Lake to get it on, to do drugs and get it on, because now they're not gonna die

**Michael:** It wasn't that

**Mark:** And I just wanna know. They were like, "Oh, let's add this in." What I wrote was, and I went until I had a rage stroke. I was like, "Who are these kinky weirdos that dragged their single friend along to make her listen to their fucking all night. *Why* would they hitchhike in the dark, only to fuck at the site of what is arguably, in the film, the worst continuous mass murder in 20th century American history. Who are these fucking people. Moreover, who is the sad girl riding shotgun, who's just ready to fuck the guy who picks them up and then is sad when he doesn't try to grope her ten seconds after she gets into the car. What's- *why*?' Even for a *Friday the 13th* movie, this was a whole other level." And I say this as a *die-hard* fan of *Friday the 13th* movies. This was like, "Holy shit."

**Michael:** Well there's a lot of like...

**Mark:** Who's driving the car?

**Michael:** There's a lot of fantasy, right? Like that's gotta be straight male fantasy. Just like how every time there's- I think I've mentioned this before, I've read several scripts in the last year or two where every time there was a lesbian character, she got, she wasn't lesbian by the end of the movie 'cause she fucked a dude, y'know?

**Mark:** Well that's the cure

**Michael:** Right. There's this...

**Mark:** I mean, that's real. That's just real

**Michael:** There's like this weird putting on a fantasy in the film that you wish happened to you, I'm betting, you know what I mean?

**Nay:** Oh, God

**Derek:** It did feel really weird, 'cause it feels like they- why would a single, why did she, why would she tag along?

**Mark:** "Oh, so I can hear you two bone all night? Oh my God, where's my backpack?"

**Nay:** Sometimes, sometimes that sounds cute. I actually was thinking that

**Mark:** Nay's like, "Actually…"

**Nay:** Listen. I was thinking when I was watching this and then I was like, "How can I say this out loud and not sound disgusting?"

**Michael:** Free ride?

**Nay:** Whatever! So if my friends go over to this tent six feet away to fuck, I'm thinking obviously so you're probably okay with me masturbating out here

**Michael:** True!

**Nay:** But then I was like, no, I can't assume someone's okay with that. That's the part that made me disgusted

**Mark:** Although where would they- they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they got out of the tent, saw you masturbating and were scandalized

**Nay:** I'm like, "I'm right here!"

**Mark:** You'd be like, 'Really?"

**Michael:** "You brought me."

**Mark:** "You brought me. You knew what was gonna happen!"

**Michael:** So what's the pitch here? "Okay, Amber. Josh and I are gonna go fuck in the woods, but we're gonna hitchhike there. We don't have a car! We're gonna rely on some random stranger to go," and she's like, "I am *so* in."

**Mark:** "I know it's midnight. It's already midnight."

**Michael:** "And it's at Camp Crystal Lake." And she's like, "So in."

**Nay:** So I was thinking the only way I would want to be the third wheel is if it was a couple I wanted to listen to fuck

**Michael:** True

**Nay:** Listen to them fucking, you know

**Michael:** I wasn't mad at him

**Derek:** Why would you bring more than one? Like if you were doing that, you know, as someone who's gone on trips with people who were you know...

**Mark:** Not to hear them copulate, yeah, go on

**Derek:** I would have my own tent and at a certain point...

**Mark:** I know! She was just like...

**Michael:** On the ground!

**Derek:** She literally was asked by the girl who's in the couple, "Hey, do you mind if we take the tent for an hour?"

**Mark:** I know!

**Michael:** She should have had a giant sack of dildos

**Derek:** You should've brought your own

**Michael:** "Yeah, I brought a sack of dildos. I'll be in the woods."

**Nay:** "Yeah, you keepin' that tent, you keepin' that tent. That's your tent all night, okay?"

**Derek:** That's what she said! "It's your tent all night, I'm gonna sleep out here. It's a beautiful night."

**Mark:** That tent's gonna be funky and it's fine. Whatever. But I guess the plan, I'm realizing now, maybe the plan was they were like, "Amber. We're hitchhiking to Camp Crystal Lake--"

**Michael:** "And the hitchhiker's gonna be hot!"

**Mark:** "To bone." And she's like, "But I'm single right now and I feel weird." And they're like, "Don't worry--"

**Michael:** "We'll find someone"

**Mark:** "You can fuck the stranger with the car."

**Michael:** "That we hitch a ride from"

**Mark:** And she's like, "Of course!"

**Nay:** "Duh!"

**Mark:** "Where's my backpack? Let's go."

**Michael:** She actually has one on already. "I'm ready! You had me at hitchhike."

**Nay:** I can never be shamed by someone calling me out for being on my phone. I'm proud, I'm proud

**Michael:** I know. On today's playback, you were like, "I started *Hill House*, but I realized I was on my phone an hour later."

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** I wanted to bring up those two problematic issues with the...

**Mark:** Here's the thing. I wanted to lead into that, because...

**Michael:** Okay great

**Mark:** I think, maybe I'm being too sensitive...

**Michael:** (unintelligible)

**Mark:** Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but I can see how people can read homoerotic themes into the film. However, the weird leather straps and the, and not like sexy leather just the weird leather straps

**Nay:** (sotto voce) It's like a little sexy

**Mark:** (sotto voce) Is it? Well, okay. To each their own

**Nay:** Maybe not in the movie, but I felt inspired

**Mark:** Fair enough

**Michael:** Inspiration's always a good thing

**Mark:** I think the turdworm kissing--

**Nay:** Hmmm, that killed it for ya

**Mark:** Yeah. I just felt like, I felt like it was an opportunity--

**Michael:** (amused) Turdworm

**Mark:** I felt like it was an opportunity for the audience to be like, "Ew, guys kissing!"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Mark:** And so to me I feel like it's more homophobic than anything. I don't get- just because Jason shaves a guy

**Michael:** Right. That's not queer

**Mark:** It's not. And the movie manages to double down by being apparently pretty misogynistic as well. And look, I'm not against body horror by any stretch of the imagination. I think that some of my favorite horror is body horror. But, I think when the characters are so thinly drawn and so cheap when you show one of the turdworms flying up the skirt of the...

**Michael:** Of his sister's, the sister character

**Mark:** The poor, poor actress, who apparently had no idea that this was going to happen in the movie

**Michael:** Yep. She wasn't present for that

**Mark:** That's just super gross

**Nay:** Oh, it was a stunt double?

**Michael:** It was a stunt double, but they didn't tell her that was going to happen to her character. So essentially the turdworm...

**Mark:** The turdworm didn't want to do it either

**Michael:** Crawls up into her skirt and into her vagina

**Mark:** The turdworm wouldn't come out of his trailer

**Derek:** And is born a full-size Kane Hodder Jason

**Michael:** Yes

**Mark:** Yes

**Michael:** And she was never made aware, it was never in the script, she was never made aware that that was gonna happen. She didn't know they'd hired a body double to play her, and she didn't know about it until she saw it onscreen

**Mark:** Gross

**Michael:** That's disgusting. If you think about it, she- I have this article up that I found while doing research called "Thirteen Things You May Not Have Known About *Jason Goes to Hell*" and this was one of 'em. Do you want me to read? It's a brief kind of summary. There's two very problematic things with women in the movie. "Erin Grey didn't know the following happened to her character until she saw it with everyone else at the premiere. It was never in the script and Grey did not pose for that scene specifically where the--" turd monster, is that what you called it?

**Mark:** Turdworm

**Michael:** Turdworm crawls into her vagina. "And according to the director," and this is where I get a little pissy, "He says that was a corporate decision to make the story elements kind of link up easier. 'I admit it's a little distasteful and I regret the shot even though, trust me. Audiences love it.'" A reluctant kind of blame...

**Mark:** They love it 'cause they know the movie's almost over

**Michael:** And also, I don't like the type of statement where you try to push the blame onto somebody else while also kind of being a little bit arrogant about it

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** You know, it's just like, I think a better statement could have been, "I was twenty-three years old and I made a really stupid mistake." But, you know, I, so...

**Mark:** And then apologizing badly

**Michael:** Imagine that

**Michael:** Also, to bring up another problem is, Kerri Keegan who played the daughter of this character actually walked off the set and only returned when director Adam Marcus was removed and Sean Cunningham was inserted as director for the final days of the filming. And this is a longer story, but basically it went down to she had to do a shower scene. I don't think she had a "no nudity" clause in her contract, but they agreed no nudity. And he insisted she do nudity, and even went as far as, according to Kerri herself, Adam Marcus denies this, but Kerri says that he was going around telling people, "I'll get her to do it," to the point where she walked off set and refused to return until he was gone. And they actually replaced him, so she finished the movie. So there's, you know, I like, reading those kind of things...

**Mark:** Yeah

**Michael:** Any sort of queerness that *may be there* isn't on purpose--

**Mark:** Yeah

**Michael:** Because I don't think a person who does those kind of things to your actors has a queer wink in them

**Mark:** No. Not in the way we'd like to see a queer wink

**Michael:** Right

**Mark:** I've hung out with Michelle Clunie before, who played I think Debra, the camper who, from the tent. And she went on to do *Queer as Folk*

**Michael:** Good for her!

**Mark:** Yeah, good for her. And she's a lovely person. And I remember *Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday* came up twice. But the first time it did, I remember 'cause it was running on HBO and I'd never seen it and I saw it and I called her and I was like, "I saw- Guess what I just saw? I saw you in this scene, blah blah blah." And she made a noise like, (disappointed sigh)

**Michael**: She's like (as Michelle) "I thought we were friends, Mark!"

**Mark:** It was like as though--

**Michael:** Like she'd been hurt

**Mark:** Yeah, no. As though I had been like, "I know you did that hit-and-run." And she was like this heavy (disappointed sigh)

**Mark:** What are some of the chestnut factoids about *Jason Goes to Hell* that we can leave--

**Michael:** Like a better taste in their mouth?

**Mark:** Like a rotten mint on a pillow for our listeners

**Michael:** Okay, so, it was supposed to be *Freddy Vs. Jason*. I'm sure people knew that.

**Derek:** Yeah, or right after that, if not

**Michael:** The script was written in four days

**Mark:** (feigning shock) No!

**Michael:** Shocking

**Mark:** What?!

**Michael:** Yeah. Let's see there's one, two, three, four, four people involved in the writing process

**Mark:** Oh those poor people

**Michael:** Steven Williams would only play Creighton Duke if he could dress as a cowboy, which I already mentioned

**Mark:** What I wanna know is- Here's what I wanna know: What the fuck were the other options that they were like, "Oh fuck, we really have to let him wear a cowboy hat otherwise we're gonna have to go with the other guy." I'm just like- because he's not good, in the movie. He's not good. He has the weirdest delivery. I just, he doesn't make the character work on any level.

**Derek:** Yeah, that whole breaking the fingers scene

**Mark:** The breaking the fingers! Why?

**Derek:** He just breaks it and is like, "It's gonna cost ya, every time, it's gonna cost ya." And then at the end, when he sees the hand all mangled he's like, "This one's free." Like after making a whole deal like this where it's gonna cost you a whole lot more, now it's free

**Mark:** What for? What for? Oh God, it makes me so angry to think about it

**Michael:** Maybe a little bit better thing for the director, but apparently he had a reason there's a lot of male nudity in the film is he said that for every female that they showed nude, he required they show a male nude, so it was kind of even

**Derek:** That's a cool concept, at least. I guess

**Michael:** At least he was thinkin'. It was originally filmed at twenty-two frames per second

**Derek:** Why?

**Brennan:** He's Peter Jackson-ing it

**Mark:** Because Sean Cunningham famously has an issue- he shot *DeepStar Six* this way because he always thinks that actors are taking too long to emote, and so he wants them to hurry the fuck up

**Michael:** Yeah, he actually wants them- yeah

**Mark:** Which is just like, okay? I guess?

**Michael:** As a writer...

**Mark:** And so yeah

**Michael:** They're too busy emoting

**Derek:** At twenty-two frames per second, it sounds like he's trying to save money on two frames a second, which does not add up to a lot

**Mark:** No, not really!

**Derek:** Especially- I mean it's not like they're shooting again *Lord of the Rings* and *Lord of the Rings* they were shooting on sixty frames a second, so it was the opposite. They were trying to, they were actually wanting to use more

**Mark:** Well, as shocking as it is--

**Michael:** He didn't like how long it took people to walk through a door

**Mark:** Yeah. As shocking as it is that there's this many differences between the making of *Jason Goes to Hell* and *Lord of the Rings*, but you know, hey

**Michael:** Amazing

**Mark:** Who knew?

**Derek:** Peter Jackson came from low-budget horror too, though

**Mark:** Oh my God, and it's the best

**Michael:** Yeah

**Mark:** We need to do *Dead Alive* one day

**Michael:** So those were some of the funner ones

**Mark:** Oh, the funner. (mocking) "Those were the ones that were funner."

**Michael:** (mocking) "Those were the ones that were fun."

**Derek:** A lot of the movies (Kane) is in, while the movies themselves are not always amazing films, he's always good in them.

**Mark:** Right

**Derek:** You could watch something that looks twenty times worse than something The Asylum could make and Kane is a big character in it. Kane, you could take that same performance and drop it in, you know, some, I'm trying to think of a big movie, *Lincoln* or *Call Me By Your Name* or something like that--

**Mark:** Kane Hodder in *Call Me By Your Name* is like, is like, "Oh wow!" That is a tangent that you could not have paid me to come up with

**Derek:** I'm just saying, you could have Kane go in- I could see him doing a lot more work outside of the horror industry--

**Michael:** Kane and the peach?

**Mark:** Oh my God!

**Derek:** Because he is such a great actor, so I think a lot of it stems from that and the fact that the fans took as much ownership in the performance (of Jason) too, and made him wanna keep coming back. He's also the only person *asked* to come back

**Mark:** Have you guys ever shaved anybody?

**Brennan:** Huh. Yes.

**Mark:** Tune in next week to find out

## **Previous Episode**

Episode 17: "Lez Scares Jessica to Death” (w/ Parker Brennon!)

## **Next Episode**

Episode 19: "Can You Feel It, the Warning of the Night?"