Episode 106 - Liturgists (The Alien & The Robot)

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[Music] hey everybody this is michael gunger welcome to the liturgists podcast science mike and i also have a podcast called the alien and the robot that we provide every week for our patrons and on this latest one we talked a lot about things that might interest a lot of you in the sort of greater liturgists listening audience and community as well as the patrons so we thought we'd just release this week's episode of the alien the robot on the main feed and give you not only a little taste of what the alien and the robot is but also get you some pertinent information so hope you enjoyed this conversation with mike and i and we will catch you next week actually we have a really special release that you should keep your eyes peeled for next week all right all the love everybody hope you enjoy [Music] in the year 2013 an extraterrestrial and an android encountered each other in a human village since that time they've worked together to understand the strange fascinating primates that dominate the earth [Music] how's it going i'm so excited are you i am uh well tanner and i have been like data diving you know i like data diving oh yeah so we uh surveyed our patrons about patreon um because we had we wrote a song about it we wrote a song for them we had this realization that um we always thought of like the patreon community is the eventual place allergist podcast takes you and then as we looked at that data before this whole endeavor we're like oh no the patron community is just a unique subculture [Laughter] that actually doesn't bear any significant similarity to the larger audience of the liturgists oh my gosh no what the patrons love the same episodes we do right uh the general audience doesn't love the same episodes like when we put the alien robot on the main feed the main audience is like what the fuck is this excuse me what the frick is this because i don't know that most of them would f-bomb yeah and maybe not even frick that might be a little too far what the heck what the heck is this the alien and the robot this is weird where's hillary where's william i need hillary and william to say some things about feelings and jesus so um we don't talk a lot about jesus on the alien robot now that i think about it uh so this patron subculture got magnified us because we would meet them at the liturgist gathering in the after parties and be like this is our whole audience so then we started veering our content strategy more towards the patrons yeah didn't work for the main feed did not work for the main it worked well for patreon yeah like patreon grew and the main podcast didn't so i started doing the the analysis and that's when we came up with our our three audiences thing and then we realized like let i'm just gonna put it really honest this is probably too honest but since only the patrons can hear this it works the patrons are the part of the liturgists that vishnu and i enjoy that i'm just being real like when i get on the patron discussion threads when i go i'm always happy when i meet you all i'm always happy when you come to the events when you say hi i'm a patron i'm like okay in the line suddenly that person takes a long time because we talk about something funny and weird and cool and i don't have to have my guard up so uh so we've decided to invest in patreon almost as like a separate thing in our content production and our strategy from the liturgist podcast so we're going to keep making the liturgies podcast and the main way we're going to start monetizing the literature's podcast is with ads and then don't worry patrons you still get the literature's podcast when we launch ads on the main feed we'll launch ad-free versions on patreon for no matter what tier you're at we'll talk about tiers in a second and then we're just gonna make patreon be its own thing and patreon is where i'm going to spend half or more of my liturgist energy um and so we you know so we had to we had to look about how to redo that and then when we looked at patreon there are a couple of problems one we didn't offer that much that was cool or compelling to patrons um and what we did offer we weren't sure what you liked so we did the great patron survey we wrote a song for you if you haven't heard that song go look at that post it's in the comments even if you didn't do the survey you can hear the thank you song and uh and then we learned like you like some things you're getting the number of you who said you like the meditations is pretty different from the number of you who listen to the meditation so you say you love the meditations but the analytics say not that many people listen to them so i think you like the idea of the meditations but we try to think of some perks you would actually use and since we like the after party so much we wanted to figure out how to make it feasible for us to do after parties more often with or without a liturgist gathering or other events yeah baby so what that meant we had to do was look at really carefully like actually make a budget for patreon and when we made a budget for patreon the first thing we figured out is that we have a one dollar tier and the one dollar peer tier is a great fundraising mechanism for patreon the company so it lets people feel like they're supporting the liturgists and what they're actually doing is supporting the company patreon it's not until you get the five dollar tier that we see enough of the money for it to count so like even though there's you know a good number i think almost two thousand uh one dollar patrons actually could be more than that no i think it's almost two thousand uh the actual like money to the liturgists from you know this almost two thousand dollars a month of pledging uh works out to a little less than two hundred dollars are you serious yeah so the one dollar tier wow uh was a real no-go it didn't fund the ability to do anything for the patrons um the five dollar tier was amazing and important the twenty dollar tier was full of people paying more than twenty dollars wow and we didn't do anything for them so it's just like people from the goodness of their heart were like here's some more money wonderful people yeah wonderful people uh and and you know i i don't even know that i would say we say thank you we don't even really say thank you to those people so we realized the way to make the one dollar tier work was to take it to three dollars which meant we could do more for the one dollar people because we'd actually get some money from it and it was still like affordable right and not believe me if you're like three dollars is too much i understand i just had to go fund me uh we'll talk about now we'll talk about that now the good news is if three dollars is too much and you're a one dollar patron you can stay a one dollar patron the old tiers don't go away it's just new people can't sign up for them so you're like one dollar five dollar twenty dollar is forever og locked in not going anywhere if you're like i just want the alien the robot and i just want to pay a dollar a month congratulations you got it but if you can make the lift from one dollar to three dollars then we unlock new stuff once we had three it crowded five so we took five to ten when we polled people a majority of people said that if we included other things ten dollars would be a reasonable price for the five dollars that's why it's ten same thing if ten dollars is too much that's fine you can just stay a five dollar patron forever and then uh 20 became 30 and that was based on just where people are already at uh the average price of donation for a 20 patron was 36 wow so we just set set it where you're actually giving and then you're like what is this 75 dollar tier are you going for my money no there's a bunch of people who already give 75 dollars and we're saying for those people go sign up for that tier so you get benefits for what you already pay for so i just i want to explain how we came up with those those pricing tiers what that's going to let us do is actually start doing patron only events where we travel to a city we do something and you don't pay anything yeah it's just you're already a patron uh we also are able to at certain tiers that's fun you get a free ticket to a liturgist thing a year um which is a new thing let's start doing a monthly web-based q a where you can actually ask us questions there'll be some assemblage of contributors to the literature podcast every month it won't just be the alien the robot on those um it lets us make sure that we can continue to make the meditations that you all say you want and some of you use but this whole thing is our attempt to kind of go all in on patreon and make it worth your time because a lot of you signed up because you wanted to support the literature's podcast and we appreciate it appreciate it but then this whole wonderful thing in and of itself formed and so in my mind there's the liturgist podcast and there's patreon and they're kind of different things interesting yeah i'm trying to make sure i answered everybody's questions i queued that up in my head i don't know if you can tell i was running off a little script there yeah i was uh i just assume at this point and we've got a big giveaway so this i'm really excited about we're going to throw a party in los angeles to kind of kick off this new patreon thing and we're running two sweepstakes as part of that how do you enter you already have you're a patron so if you've been a patron in the past you're entered for a sweepstakes we're going to pick someone and that person gets to bring a friend all expenses paid to los angeles for a party that with the liturgists and a tour of the liturgist's office oh boy yes you'll come in here we're recording right now hang out with me and michael uh and then that sweepstakes one sweepstakes two is for anyone who signs up for the new patron tears entered in the same thing so if you're an old patron who signs up for the new tiers you get two entries entered in both sweepstakes right look at that so you can't enter sweepstakes one it's already closed if you're a patron congratulations you're entered anyone can enter by signing up for the new tiers for the new sweepstakes terms and conditions apply and those are available online you are like ed fucking mcmahon right now listen and the heavy mental lifting all this stuff was tanner tanner is like he's great changing my whole life uh now one thing you'll notice when you sign up for the new tiers right now all the content on patreon disappears all the meditations disappear because we have to go back and re-target those at the new tiers we are doing that over the next two weeks so sorry for that if you're like where's my meditations they're coming um we're trying to figure out there's an automated way to do that if there's not i'm just going to block out three days on my calendar and go by hand and edit every post in the history of patreon uh whatever it takes um and i just want to emphasize the old tears don't go away and you're like what do i get for the old tears the same thing you've always gotten for the old tier so you get what you have already you just don't get new stuff that we announce so one dollar tier continues with the alien the robot five dollar tier continues with meditations plus early access to tickets all that stuff continues to happen um yeah that's all the questions i saw that was good it's a good amount of information it's a lot of information it's a lot of information um [Music] and it all it you know it's all from we just want to see patrons more so that's why we want to build into the budget of patreon we want to make the literacy podcast support itself from ads and then the patreon revenue we spend that on the patrons so renting rooms for us to hang out together in cities across the country multiple times per year uh and getting you know the literature's crew there and uh that's the new patreon it's exciting but wait there's more if you've been an existing patron and you sign up at a new tier you're entered not once but twice for a sweepstakes to come to the liturgist worldwide headquarters and spend time with the founders of the liturgists science mike and michael gunger better make sure there's no drug paraphernalia out anyway or make sure that there is it's the patrons you know how many patrons have asked me for psychedelics at events not zero [Laughter] it is not zero science mike where do you get those psychedelics we still haven't even talked about it on the main feed we're responsible for this break between the podcast and the patrons by the way because we on the on the patreon thing we just was letting all that shit the shit and let it all hang out and then the podcast were like oh not sure people are ready to hear about that that's creates a golf well the thing is like a large number of the patrons are like not into psychedelics man sure i know but they'll be they'll say i'm not into psychedelics let's talk about that whereas the main feat is just like what what do we do so there's just a greater level of like emotional fluency and capacity to communicate across different moral beliefs among the patrons yeah than the larger podcast audience and the larger podcast audience is far beyond most of culture yeah so it's just these you know i know i've dug myself these pits so many times with the audience the larger part of my audience that's just what i do now apparently i like i think that what happened this is something i've been noticing about myself for last this year is i tend to wrestle with something for a long time by myself and it just kind of stays in my head and i'm reading about it i'm thinking about it maybe i'm having conversations with like a couple of close people in my life about it and then it starts to like i i get some clarity on it maybe i talked to a couple other friends about it but i i know i know that most of my world it's not acceptable whatever i'm thinking about so take this all the way back to you know young earth creationism i was thinking about that for years before i would say anything in a public way and then i get in trouble because then it's after after it's been clear in my heart in my head for a while and it's the debate's kind of over i've been i've read both sides i've [Laughter] sorry i can hear where it's going yeah then i finally just kind of like well i just say it in a song or in a whatever wherever a podcast and it's like well no it's this yeah they're well done well done and then the rest of the audience is like what yeah yeah that hasn't been good for me to do that we gotta we've had a couple of uh patron exoduses last few months we read your exit survey comments well they they can't hear this they're gone but uh yeah there's been a couple of vishnu adjustments in the last few months just a couple the yahweh podcast and everybody was like okay grace and peace peace out peace out most of them actually were kindly worded goodbyes and then a couple like fuck you yeah and then uh and then sex witch that was a sex which was not super popular like peace out even buddhism wasn't super well that patrons didn't leave yeah the main p was just like well i'm not touching that yeah this is like a real polite for me to offend patrons if you guys are like pretty far no i gotta take it pretty far and i did we're talking hundreds of people damn each time in a short time window just like i can't do this vishnu oops and i will say like compared to the yahweh one the sex witch departures were all kindly worded a 100 were just like that makes sense this is not where i am but i support you as you go there just not financially i emotionally as we go where as though you and i are gonna go into being sex witches well so i saw i figured out on twitter there's this people are constantly trying to figure out where the liturgist is going yeah and it's like you're never gonna figure that out nowhere there is not some converging point in the future where like william hillary me michael jamie lee finch kevin garcia like all these people that like come on the program and everything here's the things we believe together that's not what the show is about no and never will be about like i think part of that is like the post evangelical like what's our new orthodoxy yeah there isn't a liturgist orthodoxy um there's the stuff the things the liturgists the people who create the literature just like care about what and sometimes it like is a line we all care about you know racial justice gender justice all those things we all care we think that's important but how to do that or um what would it if there was an orthodoxy would it be more what would you think about like if there's anything that we all agree on i don't know this is not even going to fall apart but i was going to be like is that what our truth is what what what how we see the world is it is helpful to hold that loosely enough to be able to keep room for others at the table hold it loosely enough yeah that we can still have conversation yeah i definitely think that would include all of the frequent contributors but not all not all the contributors no it's true but no the frequents the people who show up a lot that's true but i can't even think of people i want who've been on and i would like to have on more for whom that is not true not true yeah but i that's not what i like about it it's like oh you don't even share orthodoxy but you're smart and clever enough good things to say so let's yeah and to be clear i'm not talking about uh christopher west or some of the like regressive people that y'all have gone crazy about i'm not going to name names but i mean people who are like more with me on justice issues but not with me on the hold it loosely part yeah but there's like a certain fire and energy and passion that comes out that i appreciate um but it it's doubtful that the organization what i'm saying is like that the organization is going to have a thing that we think we all need to have and that we hold tightly you remember the nashville statement yeah so then i wrote the liturgist statement response and like michael was like really upset and i couldn't figure out why and then he finally articulated it shouldn't be called the liturgist statement because that means there is one and so we changed it to a liturgist statement because i immediately agreed i was like you're right it's like we the undersigned on behalf of a yeah non-existent entity no this the people who sign this is what we think yeah this is a litter just on a liturgist statement on the liturgist website it is not the liturgist statement and that that's but i think that's not common yeah like among organizations is like we don't believe things and we don't want you to believe things like what do we want to do we want to help you learn to be at peace with yourself and others in the way that's best for you yeah so we just show you a bunch of shit we've seen work for other people so you can grab what sticks yeah like when people talk about cafeteria christianity in a derogatory way this is cafeteria epistemology and ethics we're just gonna show you a bunch of dishes you pile up your plate with the stuff you like and just occasionally trust us try a vegetable they're good for you and sit down with some friends sit down with some friends that's it that's it and so when you're like i can't believe they went there we're always gonna go somewhere weird yeah we gotta keep the thing fresh we can't be the golden corral of epistemology just cause there's kimchi in the buffet line doesn't mean that's our new thing but a buffet with some kimchi appearance occasionally it's an interesting buffet to go to yeah it's got macaroni and cheese and kimchi yeah great great you're like i can't go i can't get along with this kimchi thing just don't put it on your plate man don't put it on the plate let's move on let's move on don't download that one or downloading or downloading it would be mad and disagree like here's what i loved there was like the sex wish episode not a not a winner on downloads yeah not a winner um at all but a huge winner on creating conversation over on the official liturgist community at discourse.liturgist.com there was like nine separate threads talking about specific aspects of that episode including one where like jamie lee finch read it and disagreed with people's take on what she said and then she logged in and talked about why she disagree with the p that's what i want it's just like let's just talk about this stuff and work it out or not like but communicate graciously to one another amidst trying to figure stuff out it's a really challenging time to be a human animal yeah we're killing the planet this there's a lot of grief with that yeah we're realizing oh wow like maybe we should treat everyone the same way oh shit all the structure of our society are designed to present that prevent that like this is a tough time to be a homo sapien so we're just trying to create a buffet line for you to figure out ways to do that and get to know each other while you do it i think it's the best job we've ever done articulating what the liturgist is yeah that's really good and i'm like that we're just gonna do that on the alien and the robot and never say anything on the main feed just like here you go patrons we should release another bonus alien robot on the main feed you know it'll just be the patrons that listen to it problem i mean we will have to talk about the new tiers on the main feed yeah but uh that would have been a good thing to have on the like episode 100 retrospective what is the liturgist episode but whatever some of this is even when we recorded that i feel like we've been learning we have been as far as like the differences between the different audiences and what is the main podcast for yeah because for a while the liturgist podcast has been the two of us looking at each other and going we really need to make and release a podcast we've recorded a lot of materials but we haven't released anything i've got hundreds of gigs of interviews on my hard drive what what should we put out well it looks like it's done well it looks like it could be done because we're always like oh we could add this oh we could add this and i'm i'm worse than you about that it's like let's do an interview with these people and these people and these people it's like mike you just did 14 interviews for what should be a 45 minute 47 episode and each interview is 70 to 120 minutes well it's not my problem i don't edit the podcast i'm just giving you good material that's good that's a good problem although that's getting better too we were just reflecting uh the episode of the liturgies podcast that will come out thursday or i should say episodes uh we're doing three episodes on the enneagram for the the instinctual centers uh the two of us had almost nothing to do with yeah it's just it's just happening i don't that's not fair i like did some stuff did an interview but uh we're fixing the podcast regularity issue one thing we got from the patron survey and from exit surveys as people being like hey you should release podcasts yeah pretty common pretty common feedback hey we also released those those surveys during our mid-season break that we had not announced to anyone yes we just stopped we were putting out stuff for stopping that podcast i was like where's the where's the podcast we thought we had like one or two more turns out we didn't so here we go again with podcasts they should be coming out regularly now oh yeah we got quite a yeah quite a queue of podcasts have you see some people have been telling me they haven't seen anything new on the podcast and i've seen comments about this too is it possible that the feed is messed up for a bunch of people that it's not refreshing i know what that was because someone figured it out for me on twitter the last two episodes of the liturgies podcast have been posted while i was traveling and uh i'm i'm fragile and delicate and so because we've changed our process and there's new people involved things that i expect haven't been where i expect them and so i spend some spoons figuring it out so for example we have a master episode list that includes a very important function which is noting not only the total episode number but the season episode number so an episode will have a number say 75 it will also have a season number say s 3 e eight that's probably not what 77 is but it's closer than not um so when i open the episode list and there's nothing there oh no there's some data that needs to be put in when i upload the episode so i have to hunt all that down and text people and get it so then by the time i upload the episode i forget to hit more options and put in the expanded metadata that includes the season and episode so if you view the podcast by season which some podcast players do then the new episodes would have shown up at the bottom of the show as more episodes if you're viewing chronological they show up right up top so in those places people are downloading the episode automatically but not able to find it because they do it by season okay that has been fixed on those episodes and i'm going to try to make a concerted effort to not miss that in the future we've got a production meeting today yeah and i will share with the team my autistic need for more precise spreadsheet work everybody's like well we've got a beautiful podcast is like the podcast is secondary to the spreadsheets people i mean keep your priorities straight if the spreadsheet isn't good how are we supposed to have a program yeah speaking of spreadsheets i just got back from burning man ah cataplexy i couldn't lift my head i was like this is bad radio but i can't get up that's quite a transition yeah you are such a burner i hate that we've already talked about this because i don't want to steer the conversation at all feel free to so much good things to hear just just tell us a couple of snippets a couple of story frames from your burning man experience okay one of my favorites was i was driving my bike so if you don't know like if you don't have a picture of burning man in your head it's this huge playa of dust that is like toxic and and uh really harsh um so the environment's very inhospitable and it's very hot and but you ride your bike around because there's just all kinds of stuff out on this playa that from what i know it's not put on by like some big organization i think like maybe just the man in the temple are kind of the official things i'm not sure i could be wrong about this but almost everything is just put on by the people that go and so i'm driving by a campsite and somebody comes out of their tents guy goes hey do you like coffee and friendship i'm like yeah i suppose i mean i'm not really into coffee but i have friendship your premise intrigues me yeah and she's like come on in come on it's like a tp kind of tent and um he's like you just gotta wear a blindfold let's come on in so he takes out a blindfold okay burning man that's you gotta expect things like that so put on the blindfold go in he gave me some iced coffee he's like just wait here for a minute and and then a couple minutes goes by he's like i'm gonna bring in your new friend and he brings in somebody named fifi and she sits down next to me and he introduces us it's like hi phoebe nice to meet you we're both blindfolded we both have coffees and he explains how he's going to serve us this coffee and friendship dinner by uh it's gonna have this is some appetizer questions there's some main course questions or some dessert questions if we ever want more questions we just raise our hand one of us raises our hand and then he'll come up and either refill our coffee or give us more questions or whatever so then he just gives us an appetizer question which i believe was what's your biggest what's the the most significant realization about yourself that you've ever had and then so just with a stranger there fifi we just start talking and it was lovely it was this beautiful conversation you don't see not seeing somebody i really liked because all of the presumptions we make from each other's clothing and each other's everything right you present yourself in a certain way and not being able to present yourself in any way visually but just being present and listening and speaking back to them and using your tone of voice to communicate your emotions um it was really lovely we had a we really connected and i don't know how long it was could have been like an hour 90 minutes something like that we went through all the courses and had this really lovely conversation then the guy goes you know at the end you can either take your blindfold off and meet each other you can do that at any time if you want i can you know see each other or you could just part ways never seeing each other and she's like i don't know what do you want to do and i was like that kind of sounds awesome just to like never see each other i mean is that too weird is that cool she's like yeah that sounds exciting so we uh we never saw each other we just at the end of the conversation he led me out of the tent i took off on my bike never saw fifi that's a real burning man moment you know and to be clear the most normal that's the of any burning man moment he told me about that's true that's just warming up give us another another bartender please um here's a short one go up for a snow cone in a line uh okay in the front i'm looking at the flavors i have all sorts of wonderful flavors of snow cones then when i get to the front i say i'll take a because here's the deal they give away everything at burning man i don't it's such a strange world like the economy of burning man is just everybody gives everything you don't buy you don't bring money you don't uh unless you want to buy ice from from burning man or whatever um you can't buy anything else on the playa so everybody's just doing things making things giving away things and uh so i get to the front of the snow cone line because it's real hot and i say i'll take a fruit punch please and she goes well you have to flash us for that so he's got to take your clothes off to get a snow cone [Laughter] same thing happened with some crystals there's a tent with some crystals but you couldn't go in with clothes on you have to you have to procure the crystals in the nude so that kind of thing there was a guy who offered me a nice drink but it would take me getting a pretty severe ass spanking there was a lot of spanking going on yeah of course like you just walked by and see somebody like holding some chains and getting their ass beat it wasn't like you know super violent it wasn't like really hard there's quite a bit of skill in the giving of proper spanking in that community uh yeah but this i mean the art was gorgeous the the spirit of the art of just everything is temporary and the amount of work and energy people put into this stuff and then they burn it and and you see people just the little tiny things you know we were out on the play away deep playa we stayed out there till sunrise and at sunrise this couple came out and started cooking pizzas for anybody way out there in the playa not saying a word about it they just brought up this little st pizza oven started cooking pizzas and then kind of dancing to the the house music you could hear in the distance just kind of they got up early serving us pizzas and just like thank you like yeah of course it's just a weird place there's just some i really liked it my insight is burning man is society if people like vishnu were in charge yeah it's just how the world would be it just sounds very accommodating to the way that you live yeah like if if you were walking down the street in any city in the world and one of those moments happened you'd say yes yes you're walking around the street someone walks up you don't know and says do you like coffee and friendship yeah you're like i don't know and he's like well you can find out we got to wear a blindfold you're lying yes i'm in that's true okay yeah i'd probably leave a stage if somebody where's someone you know tell me about your retirement portfolio not a lot of juice there no i'm already tired right right yeah yeah crazy weather we're having huh right let me just literally i just watch your body sag in response to that question whereas when someone asks me what do you think about the weather i'm like how detailed do you want to get motherfucker you think this is small talk yeah like a friend i was there with a friend i went there with went up to somebody one of our neighboring tents and was like just the first question she asked him was what did you masturbate to when you were 12 years old i can imagine which friend that was yeah you know but that's there's just not a lot of like sears catalog there's not a lot of uh yeah i don't know what the pretense i don't know it's a lot of layer you can you don't just like you just assume anybody that's there is down to be weird yeah so you can just talk about whatever do whatever um there's a gorgeous the temple um i had this moment where i was like you walk from the playa to the temple in the way that it as you approach it visually it kind of has this effect that it looks like you're kind of going down into the earth or like somehow it looks like a tunnel all of a sudden um and so you're walking down into this temple i mean it's just straight through the play with the effect of how they built it and then you you walk deep down into it and all around you there's all this people have written on the walls and put poetry all over in pictures and and you move down into the heart of this temple and there's this big stone that says you are loved and then right past that is what you can kind of see as the heart of the temple it's this circle and there's people just kind of sitting in there and it's really quiet and people are really reverent and some people are crying and there was this woman that at one point she was in there and i don't know how she she like she had this dress on the wind started blowing really crazy and the bless the dress was like blowing like beyonce or something it was like just blowing crazy and her legs were all were spread out like she's giving birth to the universe and her arms are stretched out and her side her hair is blowing she's just singing in the middle of this circle like you are you're made of the stars and your love and whatever it was gorgeous and so i went into the heart and i bowed to her i just i'm bout i'm like bowed before his mother singing and uh i had to meet caroline we were supposed to meet at a certain time and she's like where's again because the temple's a pretty big area she's like where is michael going to be she goes oh he'll be at the heart so she just went to the heart saw me bowing to the to the mother and she's like of course that wasn't too hard to find him yeah i had a good time it just it's like so you like things happen when they happen if they happen i've always had a deep curiosity about burning man and you going satisfied that curiosity for me i like that it exists i like that you went yeah i no longer have any inkling to myself because when i go to like kind of my zone is like conferences yeah it's like multiple tracks seating air conditioning you can go back to the hotel go back to hotel and plus when you go to a certain room at a certain time you can bet your ass something's happening no is it happening it's happening right on time and i think about like if you were with me at a conference i love how much of your energy it would drain like if you want me to apples worldwide developers conference which is one of my favorite conferences in the world you would be like like you would appreciate a certain absolute geek cachet about it yeah yeah but participatory you'd be like this is real on rails for me you could probably people watch and just like watch nerds like really debating about metal versus opengl and appreciate the odd passion about it yeah in the same way i went to burning man like i can appreciate the art collective i'm like folks we need a chair we need some shade some air conditioning and some structure we need some structure some spreadsheets would be helpful there's got to be a spreadsheet like you told me they had to book it but the booklet was like kind of suggestions and stuff didn't really happen if i like trekked across that plot yeah and this i would have like a meltdown literal meltdown yeah that something didn't happen because the amount of like mental and physical resources it would yeah it's a lot of spoons right i guess i'll just lie down in the desert now and die it's time to give up except the sweet embrace of death yeah i didn't it's a shame i wish you could have if you had some sort of like bubbled in air condition pod that could just kind of float in and then you could leave and go back to reno or whatever just to fly around and check it out you'd really enjoy it but i i don't know if i'd recommend you putting boots on the ground for yeah we have one of those enclosed battery-operated electric vehicles just like almost like a pokemon meal lots of glass yeah and like me tooling around in that thing that actually people probably really take notice especially if i just wore like my normal clothes you'd be like wow look at that guy i wore a suit in it never got out of the bubble so here was one of the art displays you would like you would love the art though i would one it's like it came across in the middle of the desert and all of a sudden there's a television giant you know uh i don't know 30 feet long television um and then inside the screen it's all lit kind of strangely it looks it looks really surreal um i mean i was not sober so maybe maybe it was more real than i think but but there's all these guys like these old white guys on it and they're it's like a home shopping network and they're being super corny with each other and making jokes just but they're really good at it it's like they're really pro and they take a a staff from one of the people in the audience and like here there's a burning man's staff and it comes from the ancient whatever and look at it's been decorated with lights in there and they're like selling it on this show it's so what is it was so sincere like or so like you it was like you were watching the home shopping network and they never stopped to make jokes but they're just they're laughing and making jokes with each other but it's all in this tv and you're watching them sell burning man that's it that's the art piece i dig it yeah i really liked it so lots of that kind of stuff burning man set the whole thing on fire at the end yeah that's so weird i think i think i just saw brent of brent tentatively peek in but he's so terrified put him on the microphone he won't even walk in the room it's real [Laughter] because we have a meeting around staff meetings okay well love you everybody [Music] [Music]