Debating the Alt-Right

**JACKIE**: Hi, I’m Jackie Jackson, host of the Freedom Report and defender of freedom. Tonight, my guest is Saul Salzman, prominent Tweeter and author of *First They Came for the Gamer Girls*, a provocative look at social media and the rise of the alternative right.

So, tell me, Saul, does the gefilte fish go between the lox and the matzah, or have I been putting this together wrong?

**SAUL**: Well, I hardly see how that’s relevant to the book I wrote. Just because I’m of Jewish heritage doesn’t make me some kind of culinary expert—

*Knock knock knock*

**NAZI** [in door]: Hallo Leute \*cough\*—I mean, hello fellow Americans. Do you have a moment to talk about the need to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children?

**JACKIE**: Hang on a second. Are you a Nazi?

**NAZI**: Nein! Nein! I mean no! Of course not. I’m simply an alternative pan-European ethno-nationalist identitarian. With some socialist leanings.

**JACKIE**: Oh. Well in that case get your ass on in here. Pull up a seat!

**NAZI**: Danke!

**NAZI**: [pulls up seat]

**SAUL**: Jackie you must be kidding me.

**JACKIE**: What’s wrong?

**SAUL**: This man is clearly a Nazi.

**JACKIE**: Well, he *says* he’s not a Nazi.

**NAZI**: Actually, I prefer *sie* pronouns.

**JACKIE**: Stop forcing your made-up gender on me you goddamn fascist snowflake!

**NAZI**: [Reacts]

**JACKIE**: How do you know she’s a Nazi if she doesn’t identify as one?

**SAUL**: Look how she’s dressed!

**NAZI**: Well who hasn’t, in a spirit of irony and exuberance, dressed up as a Nazi once or twice.

**SAUL**: She’s talking about securing a future for white children.

**JACKIE**: Well, why don’t we get his take on that before jumping to any conclusions. Fritz, does wanting to secure a future for white children make you a Nazi?

**NAZI**: Of course not, Jackie, but thank you for asking.

**JACKIE**: [flattered]

**NAZI**: As far as I’m concerned the Nazis died out in 1945. That’s all paleontology at this point. But you don’t have to dig through the fossil record to come to some common sense conclusions about the necessity of a secure white homeland.

**JACKIE**: Well, that sounds pretty reasonable. Saul, what do you say?

**SAUL**: Well I find this frankly astonishing. I’m afraid that I’ll be compelled to walk out of this program if this *person* is allowed to remain.

**NAZI**: *absurd smile*

**JACKIE**: Well that seems a little extreme. Don’t you think an open and honest dialogue is the best way to sort our disagreements out?

**SAUL**: I don’t see how I’m supposed to have an open and honest dialogue with someone who wants to deny my right to exist.

**JACKIE**: Well, Fritz, do you deny Saul’s right to exist?

**NAZI**: Jackie, of course not. And thank you again for asking. You see, mainstream cuckservatives may use coded racist and anti-Semitic rhetoric to make cheap appeals to the public, but not me. I grew up with Jewish friends. I even went to my classmate’s bar mitzvah. *Hava nagila, hava nagila, hava nagila venishmejá.*

**SAUL**: [offended]

**NAZI**: We had a great time. The point is, I have no problem with Saul here or any other individual Jews. The problem is the International Jewry, the Globalists, the Special Interests, Jewish Finance, the Media, the Banks.

*Knock knock knock*.

**COCKBANE**: [In door] Is this Gender Studies 501: Body Narratives in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

**NAZI**: Nein, die feministische Klasse ist im Klassenzimmer 306.

**COCKBANE**: Is this guy a Nazi?

**NAZI**: Nein!

**COCKBANE**: Ew. Byyyyye. (leaves)

**SAUL**: I am leaving.

**JACKIE**: No no no, wait wait wait. Saul, do you believe in free speech?

**SAUL**: It’s not a question of whether—

**JACKIE**: Sh. Do you believe in free speech, yes or no?

**SAUL**: Well, yes.

**JACKIE**: Well, then hear this fine fellow out. Let her bring her wares to the free marketplace of ideas. See, I am a classical liberal, and I believe that reason—nay, truth—shall prevail. So, Fritz, what were you saying about the Jewish Question?

**NAZI**: Jackie, I prefer not to use the historical term “Jewish Question.”

**JACKIE**: I respect your preference.

**SAUL**: I find this frankly astonishing.

**NAZI**: I’m simply looking for the most logical answers. Answers to questions. Questions like, why is it that no one on the left is demanding that Asians allow hordes of immigrants into their countries? Why is it that blacks are allowed to take pride in their race, but when whites do the exact same thing, suddenly it’s racist?

**JACKIE**: Well, that’s actually a really good point. I’ve always wondered that.

**SAUL**: You must be joking. How can you sit there nodding in agreement with with with a Nazi?

**JACKIE**: Woah woah woah. Hold on Saul. I think that’s pretty unfair. “Nazi” is a very strong word that we shouldn’t be bandying about to discredit anyone we disagree with.

**NAZI**: Genau!

SAUL: She’s not just anyone! She believes a Jewish conspiracy is destroying the white race and that diversity is white genocide. She’s quite frankly a Nazi! Can you not see that?

**JACKIE**: [RHINO]

**SAUL**: [interior monologue.] *She’s become a monster. How could this happen? How can a human being become a monster?*

**JACKIE**: Saul? Are you okay?

**SAUL**: [snapping out of it]

**JACKIE**: I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to please remain civil. You’re coming across very emotional right now. Fritz, over here, is making some very calm and rational arguments, and if his ideas are wrong, I don’t see why you can’t simply refute them calmly and rationally.

**SAUL**: How am I supposed to refute the idea that a global Jewish conspiracy controls the media and world finance?

**JACKIE**: Well okay, that’s fair. Fritz I’d say the burden of proof is on you here.

**NAZI**: Indeed it is. And I’ll be happy to provide evidence. Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Facebook. Bob Iger, CEO of Disney. Jeff Zucker, president of CNN. Eddy Hartenstein—

**SAUL**: Stop, stop, stop. You’re just naming CEOs of individual media companies that happen to be Jewish. That’s hardly evidence of a conspiracy to control the minds—

**JACKIE**: Well hold on, if lots of CEOs of media outlets are Jewish, why doesn’t that count as evidence of Jewish control of the media?

**SAUL**: You must be joking. Are you really buying this?

**JACKIE**: Not necessarily. I’m just trying to keep an open mind, and follow the facts wherever they lead.

**SAUL**: Well how about the fact that last time this madness took hold, 12 million people ended up murdered in the extermination camps. But I suppose you deny that that ever happened.

**NAZI**: Well, we can have an academic debate about these historical incidents on our own time, but for now I’ll leave it to the viewers at home to decide for themselves what they think about these obvious attempts to guilt trip them.

**SAUL**: I’m not trying to guilt trip anyone! I’m simply pointing out the indisputable historical fact, that nearly six million Jews and another six million Roma, homosexuals, criminals were were were—

**NAZI**: If the fact is so indisputable, why is skepticism about the official narrative illegal in 16 European countries.

**SAUL**: “The official narrative.” My goodness. [rubbing eyes]

**NAZI**: I mean if the facts are truly on your side, why should you have to resort to these Orwellian methods of thought policing?

**SAUL**: Holocaust denial is illegal in those countries because they’re trying to prevent prevaricating charlatans like you from promulgating racist lies.

**NAZI**: Well, what’s true and what’s a lie is for the evidence to decide, not the government.

**JACKIE**: Saul I have to say I side with Fritz here. I mean, I’m no holocaust denier, but I believe in free speech, and I think the viewers at home are smart enough to sort fact from fiction without Big Brother telling them what to believe.

**SAUL**: Well look, I don’t think holocaust denial should be illegal either, but free speech doesn’t require you to invite people like this onto your program.

**JACKIE**: Well, plenty of my guests, such as yourself, disagree with Fritz, and I believe the best way for my viewers to decide what’s true is to hear out both sides of the issue.

**SAUL**: Just because there are two sides to an issue doesn’t mean they’re equally deserving of an audience. Your responsibility as a journalist is not just to defer to this “both sides” platitude as a defense of trotting out any fascist crackpot. You have to exercise discretion about *what* views are worth being heard.

**JACKIE**: Well, the alternative right is a growing political movement, and I’m sure my audience wants to find out what it’s all about.

**NAZI**: Ganz recht!

**SAUL**: The best way to find out what their ideas are isn’t just to sit there nodding in agreement while a person who is, frankly, a propagandist spouts racist canards that are known to lead to violence.

**JACKIE**: Well, Fritz, are you trying to incite violence?

**NAZI**: Of course not, Jackie, and thanks once again for asking. I, and other White Nationalists support *true* diversity and a homeland for *all* peoples, something we aim to achieve through purely peaceful means.

**JACKIE**: Well, that doesn’t sound violent to me.

**SAUL**: He’s quoting the front page of Stormfront. This is nothing but Nazi propaganda. How are you not seeing this? How are people not seeing this? I find this frankly astonishing. [scratching head, going crazy]

**NAZI**: If you want to talk about violence, Saul, why not take a look at what goes on in America’s inner cities, at the knockout game, at black-on-black crime. Or take a look leftist organizations like BLM and Antifa. Hardly much commitment to non-violence there, huh, Saul?

**JACKIE**: Hm. That’s a good point. What do you say to that?

**SAUL**: Leftists are getting violent because their lives are threatened by fascist ideology. The things this monster advocates would lead to massive state violence with victims on the scale of tens of millions.

**JACKIE**: Well do you have any evidence to support that?

**SAUL**: The evidence is the historical record. The Nazi Party didn’t come to power on a platform of gas chambers and ghettos—

**NAZI**: Godwin’s law, Godwin’s law!

**JACKIE**: Saul, Saul, this is why I’m having trouble following you here, it’s like you can’t disagree with someone without resorting to calling them a Nazi.

**SAUL**: Well what do you want me to say if that’s what they are!?

**JACKIE**: I just don’t see why, if your ideas are correct, you can’t explain them calmly and rationally. Fritz here has no problem with that, even in the face of you calling him a Nazi.

I mean here he is, trying to express some valid concerns about white identity and national security, concerns which many Americans share. And I can kind of see where they’re coming from.

I mean, there are thousands of organizations that promote the interests, values and heritage of non-White minorities, so why is it suddenly racist when white people get together to do exactly the same thing.

I always wondered in school why white people were constantly being guilt-tripped and told that we’re responsible for all the ills of history and society. Like, there’s just this white-people-are-evil-narrative that’s forced down our throats by the media, and to be honest with you, I’m kind of sick of it, especially now that we’re all supposed to act happy that millions of Islamic rapists are swarming into Western countries. Now, I may not agree with Fritz on all the details, but I do consider myself a civic Nationalist, and I don’t think we should gloss over the role that white people and white culture have played in building Western civilization. I for one don’t want to see Western countries overrun by third-world cultures and primitive people who don’t understand our values. I don’t feel at home with cultures like that around, and it’s not something I want my children to grow up with either.

[Throughout monologue, Nazi smiles creepily at Saul. Saul stares at ground, clutches head, slowly begins to rock]

[NEW LIGHTING. SMOKE.]

[Nazi smiling, laughing]

[Jackie in Rhino mask]

*[Saul horrified]*

**SAUL** [Interior Monologue]: *They’re all becoming monsters. How could this happen? What could I have said to change their minds? What facts could I have given? What speeches made? Ah, but now it’s too late. And I’m left alone to ponder the question: is it they who are the monsters, or was I the real monster all along?*

[Fade to black] I guess we’ll never know.