B010 Kickstarterversary Retrospective

> "*There was no horse. That was the fundamental... You conjured a horse into existence and then declared it your friend and wanted to talk to you.*"
> ― DM James
>
>

The **Kickstarterversary Retrospective** is the tenth bonus episode of Queens of Adventure. Released on the one year anniversary of the Kickstarter Campaign, DMs Matt and James discuss the origins of the show.

## Behind the Queens

### Around the Mic

* DM Matt
* DM James

Matt introduces that this episode will be a chance to answer fan questions and talk about the origins of the show as well as reflect on the year since their Kickstarter Campaign was fully funded. James, co-creator of the show and the campaigns and voice of several characters, is present as well.

They launched the Kickstarter after they had done three live shows, and the in between test episodes, but not the fourth Seattle show or DragCon. They were still not sure people would want a Dungeons and Drag Queen podcast, let alone how to bring Drag Queens into the fantasy world.

#### Origins

Speaking of the origin of the idea, the pair had talked about doing a D&D project in 2014 as 5th edition was coming. James had heard a pitch to the Penny Arcade people about how '5e' would work and was intrigued then heard "My Brother, My Brother, and Me" podcast play D&D with their Dad.

Matt's understanding of D&D was limited. He tried once when he was thirteen, but his friend spent most of the time reading the rules. James was surprised to see a growing movement of D&D podcasts, as he thought watching others play would be boring. Adventure Zone and Acquisitions Inc sold James on the idea. He tried to get Matt into it with a trial game, but his character was a loner halfling who didn't want to adventure, and who struggled with certain aspects of the limits of the shared authorship (after conjuring a horse out of nowhere). James prefers DMing where there is space for players to create and contribute, within limits. It's not Calvinball.

Around this time, Matt's job with the Marriage Equality campaign was ending, and his youtube video series had been popular. From this grew the Sewers of Paris podcast, and another idea on that list was Dungeons and Drag Queens. The idea was that Drag Queens have many skills needed for good D&D: Character Creation, Improv, and often Collaboration.

A big hurdle was how to handle the visual aspect of drag. One thought was a video series, but getting into drag is a huge production, so sitting under lights on camera for hours (a la Critical Role) would be a big ask, and they had no way to pay them.

In 2017, Sewers of Paris was going strong and Matt's youtube videos were more general media. Then Matt went to DragCon to cover it, record some Sewers interviews, and meet with World of Wonder staff. Dungeons and Drag Queens most intrigued them. This pushed Matt and James to just do the show finally. Realizing that drag shows work because of the visuals, they decided to make it a live show, as a video couldn't capture an audience in the same way. To make up for the lack of professional acting skill that shows like Critical Role have, chemistry was going to be important and they needed queens who worked well together.

The benefits of the live show became apparent: they could sell tickets and make money to pay the queens. They could also have the queens perform 'stunts' in the shows. Their first planned one was a lipsynch at the end of the show.

They decided to try it out at the Timberroom in Seattle, where they had previously presented a documentary they had created in 2014, interviewing over 100 lgbt gamers and allies across the country about what gaming meant to them, and its influence it had on them. From it they learned what gamers wanted. There was a lot of feeling that gaming and queer identities were split and couldn't overlap, and people wanted a place for both. With D&D they could do so much more with character creation than in a lot of other video games.

Matt references an article he wrote about Ethan Schoonover, a local teacher who created a D&D game for girls at his school, helping them learning valuable skills.

Circling back to the show, it also grew out of that need people had to see queer heroes in their media. With D&D's flexibility, they could do that. They also wanted to see families, which is why they created Cher Noble, a hero and a mother.

Their very first stage show was The Fall of the House of Wunderbred. While they didn't have a lot to lose other than a bad show, they were really nervous. Matt had also never played D&D or run a game until that show. They wrote the story and got volunteers to play through it over Discord, with James helping Matt behind the scenes. But the live show was his first time running a game on his own, and in front a crowd of 100 people. The show was designed to be a railroad session, with scenes that could drop out as needed, and several were.

Next, they ran a trial at home game with the queens as a level up session. They realized they had a lot to learn, especially about combat. It wasn't terrible, it just didn't make sense. In some turns of combat, queens were allowed too many actions all at once. It was all done on rented equipment. But in the end, they realized this format could work. Suspension of disbelief could be met.

#### Kickstarter

Knowing a podcast counted as a performance, and that they would want to pay the queens for their time, they knew they needed a way to raise funds. This led them to Kickstarter, which made them think of what it is they were funding: Paying performers, buying equipment, getting music, and art. They wanted to make sure they supported queer artists and creators. They also knew they needed enough to cover a full story, not just start up and then poop out.

Now a year out from the campaign, they are still in Season One. They expected to get 25 episodes from 10-15 sessions at the table. Now they realize it will take a lot more sessions and episodes, and so they have added a Patreon (which mostly helps to cover the cost of pizza for the sessions).

They edit out about half of the material from the recordings, including all the ums, but also all the checking of books to see what a spell does. They also edit out a lot of the planning processes that don't pay off. Matt cites that in an episode he is working on, Fraya asked about what happened to an NPC, and Matt explained, but that didn't go anywhere in story so it had to be cut.

James describes the order of priority to what they keep:

1. Comedy - if it is funny, leave it in, even if it doesn't make sense
2. Character - does it reveal something insightful to the player characters
3. Conflict - is there an interesting conflict that leads to comedy or character
4. Continuity - they wont have long sessions of lore for lore sake unless it is absolutely necessary

They discuss at greater length the editing process. Sometimes they ADR dialogue or narration. Ellen, for example, was re-recorded in her first two appearances, once James found the voice he wanted for her. Rarely do they do that with the queens. They've never changed the story or what happened, except for maybe the first episode of season one. Arson's was longer in that one and they've woven parts in later. The courtroom episode was also heavily edited as they had to add a lot of clips into it. The queens misremembered things, or added things in that never happened, so much of that was removed. One way they don't change things is the action that follows a dice roll. They will often condense battle. In the battle with the Chuul, some of the turns that didn't work or make sense, lesser damages for example, were cut. The battle with Barb had a lot of rounds of missed attacks cut.

For James, it is important to create an immersive experience as a lot of real-play loses him when it feels too much like people sitting around a table. So he wants to make things that keeps people feeling engaged. He thinks plenty of people like or prefer other styles, and want the game itself, and it is the choices that engage them. He compares it to twitch, where he is in the minority where he prefers an engaging person playing a game, then just watching someone play.

#### Questions and Answers

Is James doing the voice of Ellen and Cher Noble? - James has done Concierge, Cher Noble, Barb, Rigo, and Ellen. James is always at the table, working on sound levels, but as the number of npcs at the Golden Palace were growing, he jumped in to fill in with a new character they hadn't prepared when the queens asked for a Concierge. Most of his characters have post processing on them, Barb and Cher Noble especially.

Any plans for an interactive play online? - The kickstarter did unlock three live streams. One is done, and there will be at least two more. They will try to make them more interactive in the future. They are also aware that backers who got the choose your own adventure reward haven't had a poll in a while to choose things for the show, and that is because they are months ahead in the recordings. They currently have recordings for episodes until June. Twitch also has the option for polls, and they have mixed feelings about the pay for influencing live stream model.

What was your biggest learning curve as a DM? - What leads to success is to juggle the rules of the game, the rules of storytelling, and the rules of the created world. Matt gives himself some flexibility. For the rules of the world, he cites how Karin and Patrick are a couple, so he can't have them not care about each other's well being. Matt also wants to please everyone, which he has to fight against everyone and penalize people who roll badly, or he needs to add obstacles when things are going well, but boring. He also has started to use a battle map and DM screen, and rarely fudges rolls, but only for the story to work and not fail. James reiterates the idea that relationships should matter, as this is the emotional heart of the show.

Matt goes over a post it note he has with three reminders: 1) Watch the clock. 2) Relationships matter. 3) The world is a system. The third one means things happen when the players aren't there, and when they do something, it effects the rest of the world. This also means you can't just throw an alligator in where it wouldn't make sense just to create tension.

A second note reminds him 1) don't be afraid to start a fight. 2) Know NPC motivation. 3) Make the mission clear from the start. That's not to railroad them, but to have a primary goal and obstacle clear to ground the game when things go off the rail. Lastly they discuss that there is roleplay, and there is the game mechanics, and they need to both be present.

For monsters, they discuss how it is important to know what the monster can do, and what it's meant to do. Monsters with similar stats may have a unique trait to make them stand out. Goblins can cut and run, suggesting they should retreat when health gets low, but others have pack tactics meaning they get stronger when there are more of them so they swarm. It's also okay to allow enemies to die early. In the recent episode, most seaspawn had functionally one hit point so they could be dispatched quickly and in high numbers.

How could Debra Messing or Megan Mullaley fit into Queens of Adventure? (from Fraya) Someone on twitter replied: Elf cleric and gnome warlock cursed by a lich to adventure together forever. Matt and James love that, and asks the actresses to give them a call.

You all sound like old friends. Were you all friends before hand or were you suggested by others? - The queens all knew each other professionally before hand, and had a pre-existing vibe. Matt and James have tried a set up with people who didn't know each other and it worked less well. The Seattle group was helped be put together by Butch Alice who recommended people. Fraya has said she thought it was just a lip synch, so was surprised when she learned what the show was, but rolled with it. The San Francisco group were familiar with each other. KaiKai, Rock M, and Erika had been doing nerd themed shows in Pastel Gore, and they knew Pollo del Mar (who just handed over the crown of Empress to Baby Shakes). Kitty Powers was from out of town, who they met during the Gay Gamer documentary interviews and Matt had visited her game studio in the UK. She was going to be in SF as for the Games Developer's Conference, and they invited her. To help them all integrate, they had a pre-meetup and mini show. In terms of not knowing each other, the DragCon show consisted of Erika, Kitty, Fraya, and BenDeLaCreme, and there was limited cross pollination. They also discuss the PaxWest show that was lost, and Old Witch knew everyone and knew D&D and jumped right in.

Would love to see you create a local network of queens from different cities and eventually compete in larger and larger games/adventures. - This question came from SparkleLight, who helped suggest queens to be in the cast and nearly was in the cast. Matt and James are wanting to do shows in different cities with different groups. They don't know how it would play out, whether they'd be bonus episodes or if season two would be a different cast. Currently they are looking at shows in May, and in the Fall.

Mike asks: I'm interested in how you came up with the various NPCs. They add so much to the story but were they in the original outline or added as the quest continued? *-* Some are there from the beginning, others evolve. Jim-Jim popped up unexpectedly. The queens asked if there was a cabana boy. They had the name from a Kickstarter backer, but he was created on the spot and fleshed out later. Others like Ellen and Rigo and Cher Noble, and Augustus were outlined ahead of time. They are designed to have a purpose, and they wanted to have a D&D town in one building to be convenient, and have a theater. A casino felt like a natural fit for that. They knew a devil took Butylene's formula book, but Barb grew as a character as they met him. Cher Noble was going to be more of a survivor and creating traps, but morphed once the Discord backers chose a warforged paladin as her race and class. While Sister Baccarat and Carmella were designed before hand, their relationship evolved as the show did. NPC relationships are left mostly in the background unless it impacts the story to not detract from the players, but having them was important to them.

What was the biggest assumption about what this game would be like and what surprised you most about it after you started playing? Matt summarized his early experiences, so he was surprised how easy it was to pick up, and how great it is to have a DM screen. James says the screen elicits a specific tone that keeps people in the moment.

What happens when one of the queens fall in battle? These are the queens real dragsonas, there's a lot more invested than just character sheets. - They never plan to kill the queens's personas. They have talked about this, and would talk to the player about how they want to come back, such as if they want to come back since there are many ways to do that in game. They would also be happy to let them play a new character, either permanently or until they decided to bring out their original one.

How far out do you plan your adventures ahead of time? - They have a larger picture of what is going on in the world and what would be required to resolve it. Session to session they plan out a week or so in advance and figure a general direction to steer things towards, before firming things up a few days before the session. Live shows are done further out, often with a play test or two. Sometimes they try to reopen ideas they started with the queens months before but weren't pursued. The players could have pursued Gnomi or their missing belongings from the beginning of season 1 after the shipwreck. They could have gone after the merfolk. They had been prepped by the DMs, and many may still come up. After games they check in with the queens to see what is working and what they want to do. Fraya has expressed interest in wyverns, and they are aware of it and may roll that into what is going.

Do you ever get to play D&D yourselves? Tell us about your favorite characters. - Matt discusses their recently started Saturday morning live stream campaign. James DMs with Matt and four other people. Matt plays Eily, an artificer (recently released class). He is a shy, curious tinkerer who wants to build a subway in Waterdeep. Matt also loved a ranger with a giant snake named Jennifer he played as, especially the scouting and ranged attacks. Matt also mentions his Loxodon druid from Ravnica. Because his stats were rolled randomly, his strength was low. To explain a weak elephant he had to create a backstory of how the circle of spores druid class weakened him physically. Of the three Matt likes Eily the most.

What do you see as QoA's birthday/anniversary? - The first live show at the end of August 2017. The first official episode of Season 1 was end of May 2018.

For this recent episode, did you have the memory scenes ready to play for the queens, or did you have to edit them in post? It sounded like the queens were reacting as we were hearing past audio. - A mix of the two. Many of the clips were ready, and they edited the actual clips in to make them sound clearer. Only occasionally did the DMs have to summarize an event and edit a clip in later. Those instances had less reaction from the queens.

Any word on potential crossovers with other podcasts in the future, even if its just trading DMs for one shot sessions? - Matt would love to do that. Let them know if you have suggestions. They love cross promoting. Their Saturday show includes Jenn Vaughn from D20 dames, who also led the Podcasts of Ravnica.

Are the San Francisco/House Aubergine stories happening in roughly the same time period in this world as Booty and the Hofish's? - James: It's an interesting question, isn't it? Matt: It is.

Season 0 Episode 1 - One of the queens sings "Two Sisters". What is it from? - It is either a reference to Cabaret or Bing Crosby in White Christmas. That's their best guess.

What is the origin of Sissy that Roll? - That is a reference to Rupaul's Sissy That Walk. It was almost a name for the podcast. They had a short list of names, and that one seemed like fun. While they had planned to have the live shows be named 'Dungeons and Drag Queens' as it was easily identifiable, but the name was many places already. But they didn't want to be exclusively tied to D&D, as they may not use that system forever. Also, while drag performance is part of the show, it is more general queerness that defines the show and may want to bring in non drag queens eventually.

Matt found their list of titles. They wanted to get across Queer, Adventure, Nerdy, and Comedy. Some of their terrible names include: The Adventure Phone (cause you listen on your phone). Pete's Drag Queen. The Dragon of the Golden Shower. A Dance with Drag Queens. How to Train Your Drag Queen. Crouching Goblin, Hidden Drag Queen. Fruity Fables. Wizards and Wardrobes (they don't hate it). Little Herman's Rainbow Patrol.

Good names include: Beat for the Gods, Tainted Tales, Fairy Fantasy, and of course Sissy That Roll. Beat for the Gods, Sissy that Roll, and Queens of Adventure were the front runners.

During one of the final Season 0 level up interludes, Samantha tells Arson Nicki changes are going to take place. Was that foreshadowing for her drider form? - It was not, but changes are always going to take place. Samantha hasn't been a presence in Season 1, though she will appear soon.

Does Ellen have a Glamazon wife named Portia? - She might. They will explore a little of her domestic life soon, but not that aspect yet.

So the Glamazons aren't a race, correct? The first group encountered are human but they speak of a genasi contingent too - They are not a race, they are from all different races and backgrounds. In the future, you will see more Glamazons.

Do the queens get dressed up in drag for every episode recorded? - They do not. They joke what a mean weird thing that would be for just James and Matt's benefit. Getting into costume to get into character is a thing, but drag is a lot of work. During the Live Stream in full drag, they weren't all in drag bottoms. Matt shares a story about not wearing pants, after Fraya showed up an hour early for the last recording session.

Do you have custom minis of your characters? - James made some in Heroes Forge, and a listener did before him during the Fan Art Contest. They use lego dimensions mini figs.

You have a cast free inspiration system, correct? - Yep. What are your house rules on what inspiration can be used for? Are they beyond D&D rules for granting advantage or taking away disadvantage? - They have also used it to recover level one spells, or to let non magic users to do additional access. It's become haggling if they can make a case for it. Why do you compare them to Chuck E Cheese tokens? - Just how Matt describes the tokens.

From Fraya: If you could live on Mars would you take Sally Fields with you? - James: Boy that would get old. - Rather than die alone in space, sure.

How did you come upon the home brew alchemist for Butylene? Did she describe what she wanted and you went looking for it or were you already familiar with it? - Before the first live show, Matt made calls to the queens to discuss the kind of characters they wanted to play. From that they had two options for Butylene. One was a firbolg druid (which James thinks would have worked well), the other was the alchemist. James knew it from previous editions of D&D. Butylene wanted to brew potions and nature. This seemed like a good fit. The version they found, from DawnForged cast, is an adaptation which is a little crunchier, but complex in a way the official classes are not. They've been streamlining. Some of Butylene's abilities will soon become randomized.

Ending the Q and A, they hope people liked this slightly self-indulgent episode and wish a hugemendous thank you to all the backers.

### References

* Captain N: The Game Master
* Dungeons and Dragons the Cartoon
* Penny Arcade and Aquisitions Inc
* My Brother, My Brother, and Me and The Adventure Zone
* Vampire: The Masquerade
* Battlestar Galactica the boardgame
* The Love Guru
* Sewers of Paris podcast
* Critical Role
* The Advocate
* Steven Universe - Garnet's Future Vision
* GaymerX convention
* Gracie Allen
* Remember WENN
* Fireside Theater
* Twitch
* Joseph Campbell, Lajos Egri, Robert McKee
* Star Trek - Holodeks
* Skeletor - He-Man Christmas Special
* LOST - Rousseau
* D20 Dames
* Cabaret
* White Christmas
* RuPaul's 'Sissy that Roll'
* Ready Player One - Ernest Cline
* Chuck E. Cheese

**Greetings From Fire Island**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - **The Show Must Go On**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4
**Operation Watersport**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4 - Ch5 - Ch6 - Ch7 - **Trials**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4
**Ghosts of the Coast**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - **The Devil's Due**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4
**Special**: The Story So Far
**The Beautiful Place**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4 - Ch5 - Ch6 - **A Dance in the Dark**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4
**Drama in the Deep**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4 - Ch5 - Ch6 - **Whispers From the Heart**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4 - Ch5 - Ch6
**Danger Rangers!**: Ch1 - Ch2 - Ch3 - Ch4 - Ch5 - Ch6
**Mist Connections**: Ch1 - Ch2
**Unreleased**
Lost: Camp Crystal Light - Pax West 2018 --  vs the Lizard People
Live Shows: Seattle Style -- Minneapolis Style