Goats

22/5/22

Liz

Hello, and welcome to bread and thread a podcast about food and domestic history. I'm Liz.

hazel

I'm Hazel, we are two friends who studied archaeology together and love history, and making things and sometimes making historical things. And we like start by talking about what we've been making and or baking recently. So what have you been up to?

Liz

I may have made another set of dice.

hazel

Another one?

Liz

Well, you know, there were a couple of flaws in the first set, and I needed to know if it was me or that mold. So obviously, I had to make another full set of dice.

hazel

Yeah, of course. Okay, so the first one you made was the sparkly like green, green and copper one, right. This was so cool.

Liz

These ones are pink with blue sparkles and white le- not letters, numbers.

Nick Blake

Chance letters!

Liz

you know, maths letters

hazel

sounds cool.

Liz

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that the issue is largely with me

hazel

well, like it's only a second pair of dice, right? Pair?set?

Liz

It is. But I think the way to solve the issue is to get more expensive resin, or a piece of equipment that costs about 200 quid

hazel

Oh, okay. Are they big flaws are they are they ones that you can live with?

Liz

It's basically that the numbers aren't molding entirely correctly because whatever I try I still get some bubbles in the in the acrylic

hazel

well, they still look like functional dice.

Liz

Like they still work so just not the prettiest. i'm having fun with fine grain sandpaper. (Oh) well, because you got to sand them. And when you get to like 1500 sandpaper units I don't know what the numbers actually mean but when you get to 1500 it's finer. But once you get to 1500 sandpaper units it feels fuzzy. My sandpaper it feels kind of velvety. And it's really weird that it is sanding something. And the set of sheets they got go up to 2000. Sandpaper units.

hazel

You've got to sand something with that, just to see how it does

Liz

Well, I've been using it to sand the dice because you go through all the different numbers. (Okay) To make it all smooth and nice. (Nice) So it is quite fun just to touch.

hazel

I usually hate the feel of sandpaper. But that sounds quite nice.

Liz

It does not feel like sandpaper. It's weird. What have you been up to?

hazel

So this week, I've been able to get stuck into a dressmaking project for the first time in a couple of years, actually, which is nice, (exciting) I'm making for anyone that's wondering, Vogue eight, five, hold on. Yeah, vogue 8577 which is a shirt dress with pockets. And I finished the skirt and made the pockets. And that was very exciting because I made pockets for the first time. So that has been fun. Not complete yet. And then today, I received something that I bought a few weeks ago, which is a Turkish spindle. So it's a spindle where instead of like the round, well, it has two crossbars one that goes inside the other and then you put the shaft through them so that when you finished so you wind your yarn that you're spinning into basically a ball around the crossbars and then when you're finished you can just remove all the pieces and you have the little ball of yarn. That's just like ready. (Okay, very cool) It's very cool. Yeah. So you can either (i hope we'll be getting a picture of it). Yeah, I will be. Yeah, I will be putting a picture of that up because it's great. So because I had and oh and I didn't mention like the most extra part of it, which is that it's made of bog oak.

Liz

that is pretty extra

hazel

which, I just, I decided to get myself like a nice spindle and there's this guy on the Isle of Wight that makes them out of like, musical instrument woods.

Liz

Sure

hazel

So, um, they had bog oak. So I was like, Okay, well, I want to have the ancient tree spindle, obviously. And it has like little weights in the crossbars so that it spins really nicely. And yeah, it's great. It's also tiny because it's like a laceweight spindle.

Liz

Is this for your shawl? (Sorry?) is this for your shawl?

hazel

No, this is Oh, yeah, I'm still knitting on that. This is the beginning of the extra ?? jumper that I want to make or issue ?? I think, which is a I'm gonna make a jumper and it's a colourwork jumper with like, the moon phases on it. I'm very excited. So I've started spinning the wool that I died with onion skin and dandelion today. And yeah, I love it. It's just I really like this spindle. It just feels nice. Feels very delicate and fun. So yeah, that is something I'm enjoying very much. It's good. I'm probably not going to talk a huge amount about this project. Like ongoing on the podcast, because it's just going to take me ages to spin all of the wool because I'm also going to be Indigo dyeing, some wool some of the same wool to be the main the color of the jumper and then I'll have to spin that so all in all, I'm going to need to spend about 400 grams in a four ply or sock weight. So that's going to take me a while and it's going to be quite boring, just basically the same thing happening. So yeah, more on this. Probably in several months.

Liz

You say that like I haven't been talking about the same projects on here for months.

hazel

Well, you know that people come here for the continuity right.

Liz

It's like a really slow knitalong.

hazel

Yeah, it's you know, slow TV. This is slow podcasting,

Liz

slow radio. (A  relax) we can just have a segment in the middle of it's just the sound of knitting needles.

hazel

Yes. Can we have an ASMR segment? We could do like based on whatever the topic is.

Liz

Well, that would certainly be an interesting asmr segment for this episode, because I want to talk about goats. (Finally) For those who are unaware, my username on pretty much any piece of social media is the words invisible goats. I like goats very much.

hazel

Liz did their dissertation on goats

Liz

i did. so I've been saving this for when I felt like I needed it and between having covid a few weeks ago. And the fact they've been resurfacing right outside of our house this week, and making the whole house vibrate. I need to talk about something I care deeply about.

hazel

And this is the perfect vehicle for it. And I cannot wait to learn about goats and their history and many uses.

Liz

So the domestic goat

hazel

I can tell how much you're enjoying this already.

Liz

Is it because the accent is coming out?

hazel

Tell me about the domestic goat, please.

Liz

So it's one of the first animals to be domesticated. (Wow) About 8000 BC. (Wow!) So we're talking proper old (didn't know goats were so old) They are it's goats and sheep. Pretty much the earliest (okay) apart from like dogs but you know what I mean that like within within that little bundle of agriculture is starting so they were domesticated in the Levant which is that sort of fertile crescent area.

hazel

Do we know what their like wild progenitor was?

Liz

Yes. It's called Capra Agragus is which is a wild goat which does still exist. (Oh cool) and its range is approximately from Turkey to Turkmenistan, which is just very pleasing to me. Yeah, there was there's multiple domestication events for goats. The main one is is this one in the Levant but there is one about 500 BCE in Turkey which doesn't seem to have crossbred much with the sort of original line which is quite interesting

and you will see like Turkish goats do look like they still look like goats, but they look more wild. (Oh) Like like they resemble the wild ancestor more. (I see) The Turkish ? goats Especially.

hazel

So they're just a completely different kind of goat than other goats

Liz

like they are, they're just visually very different to sort of your standard because what I think what most people at least in Britain think of is the ball goat. Which is your classic you know, it's got the big floppy ears and it's got that little face

hazel

Oh yeah,

Liz

Just sharing breeds with Hazel for reference, I will be tweeting some of my favorite goat breeds. But goats are really good because there are they're a multi use animal. You can use them for milk, meat, fiber, manure, horns, and actually their innards as well. (Oh, okay) I don't know if you've heard the phrase cat gut.

hazel

Yes. Does that not come from a cat?

Liz

It largely comes from sheep and goats.

hazel

Oh, why's it called cat gut?

Liz

That I don't actually know.

hazel

Yeah, cashmere comes from goats, doesn't it? I always forget that. I feel like it should be like a really fancy sheep or something. Or rabbit, but that's angora?

Liz

Well, sheep and goats are incredibly similar. So archaeologically, it is virtually impossible to differentiate sheep and goat remains. Because the skeletons are just so incredibly similar to the point that when you have like official guidance for telling them apart, you get phrases like slightly more gracile, which is very up to interpretation, and depends on what your reference samples are.

hazel

Okay. Do you want to tell us how you did it?

Liz

Oh, yeah, this, this is what my dissertation was on. So there's a method called ZOOMS, which is zooarchaeology by mass spectrometry, which is the most reliable way to tell sheep and goat remains apart. And you can do it on parts that aren't the bones. Like you can do it on parchment. It's ridiculous. Where you extract the collagen and then you break that down with enzymes. I won't go into too much detail. And then you put it in a mass spec, which is basically a machine that shoots lasers at things to analyze them. And then, based on the different weights of the collagen, you determine whether It's a sheep or a goat.

hazel

shooting lasers at bones.

Liz

shooting lasers at bones. Specifically bones that have been put in acid first.

hazel

So cool. Oh, and what's the bone called? When? When it's just the collagen?

Liz

It's just collagen at that point

hazel

Oh, okay. Oh, am I confusing things what's jelly bone then

Liz

Jelly bone is not an official name for it

hazel

Oh, but it's, it's a cool name

Liz

it is and collagen is how you would traditionally make jelly. You boil up the bones and the collagen come out the acid just kind of speeds up the process.

hazel

I'm genuinely thought just from like, the frequency that you were using the term jelly bone. I just thought it was an archeological like thing.

Liz

No, it's just people know what you mean when you say it. Because bone has is basically collagen and rock. So you take the rock bit away and you just have collagen, just in the shape of the bone.

hazel

And it's called Jelly bone. Anyway.

Liz

Yes, so there's over 300 breeds of goat now. Because they're all you know, people speciaLize different breeds for different purposes for different climates. The bull goats that I mentioned, was bred in South Africa for its meat. This is why sometimes you'll see a burge- a boar goat and it looks really muscley like this is a Hench goat. (Wow) They're they're intimidating.

This is making me a little bit nervous of goats.

You should not be nervous of goats. Because the thing about them is research from the Queen Mary University in London showed that they will look to humans for help when they have a problem. (Aw!)  and research from the Royal Society shows that they have a dog like level of understanding of human emotion and they know when you're happy or sad and will react accordingly. So don't be scared of them even with their creepy little pupils.

so yeah most of the uses for goats are fairly self explanatory. You know the, they have horns that you can use for horn. They poop and you can use that for fuel. The meat interestingly in some languages is referred to in the same way as mutton.

And especially older recipes from the Middle East and the Caribbean will kind of use mutton and goat interchangeably. Okay. It's milk where things get interesting.

hazel

It always is.

Liz

I choose not to delve further into that statement. I didn't know what I meant by that. But yes, so from the 16th to the 19th century, we have documentary evidence of goats being used as wet nurses

hazel

do you mean like babies being given goat's milk to to drink or do you mean like actually like, being suckled by a goat?

Liz

Both?

hazel

Oh, okay.

Liz

so, while not ideal, obviously it was a sort of fairly accepted replacement for the milk of a baby's mother (Okay) for whatever reason you know, either she wasn't producing milk or she died because history is terrible. You could either Soak a cloth in the milk and kind of give it to the kid to suck on. Or if you had a goat, you could just directly latch them on.

hazel

Okay, not sure how I feel about that.

Liz

The physician to Louis the 15th. So we're talking mid 18th century, said that he knew quote, some peasants who have no other nurses but ewes and these peasants were as strong and vigorous as others. So again, it's that kind of sheep goat interchangeable thing But it does seem to have been mostly goats. There was actually a German book published in 1816, called the goat as the best and most agreeable wetnurse

hazel

makes me imagine just like a cheerful sort of Jolly plump, goat in a bonnet or something employed as a wetnurse to children of quality.

Liz

Yeah, it does. It does remind me of Nana from Peter Pan. But apparently, in the 18th century, there were genuine fears of syphilis from wetnurses

hazel

Oh, can you get syphilis from milk? Suppose it is a bodily fluid so...

Liz

If you have a syphilitic sore on your breasts, which you might do if it's untreated, you can pass it on

hazel

I see okay.

Liz

And yeah, there was there was a lot of stigma around wetnurses as people, even though they were still used, obviously, by most most people with money,

hazel

anyone who could afford to,

Liz

because there was this general impression of wetnurses, as this woman has, has, has had a child, but cannot support herself, which either means she's from the very lowest echelons of society, or the child was born out of wedlock, and there isn't a husband to support - support it. And so she is selling her breast milk essentially. (Okay) So that kind of goes hand in hand with Well, of course she's riddled with disease. So instead, we will feed our child from a goat.

hazel

It that's quite funny, I have to say.

Liz

which actually isn't a great idea.

hazel

Yeah, I wouldn't think so. I mean, I know goat's milk is supposed to be healthy, but like, if you drink it straight from the goat

Liz

well, feeding a child just goat milk, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2010. Can cause electrolyte problems and anemia, (Oh, okay) You can also contract a disease by drinking unpasteurized goat's milk called caprine brucellosis. Which is co- a really bad fever, which has a 2% fatality rate when untreated, which honestly, probably wouldn't have been noticed in the 18th century. Considering everything else that could have killed them.

hazel

Yeah, the child mortality rate being very high anyway.

Liz

Yeah. But it's, it's not the best idea.

hazel

No, you don't want to compound things.

Liz

But obviously, they are still used for milk now to make cheeses. constitutes about 2% of the milk produced commercially in the world is goat's milk. (Oh, that's quite a lot, actually) Yeah, it's especially popular in places like Northern India where it's very, very mountainous, so it's just easier to keep goats than something like cows If you want dairy

hazel

yeah that makes sense

Liz

obviously the other big use for goats now is cashmere and angora which are much more different to each other. That's a bad sentence than I thought they were actually

hazel

Oh okay. Okay, I don't know much about this.

Liz

So Kashmir is fairly wool like which again is that whole sheep and goats are very very similar thing, but the the name etymology is interesting because we have pashmina is basically a scarf made from cashmere but it's actually the Persian word for cashmere is pashmina (right) whereas, the English word for it cashmere comes from a place in India called Kashmir where they made pashminas which was exported throughout the British Empire

hazel

ah that yeah that makes a lot of sense I read about the the making of pashminas in the the Northern like Indian subcontinent

Liz

yeah the main areas are Kashmir and Ladakh, I believe. Which is sort of right on the India Pakistan China border. So, very mountainous, very good for goats. Whereas angora is more of a hair like you would expect to get on a goat. (Okay), which has a very long staple length and can be shared twice a year. (Wow) But a big thing about it is they don't have the coarser sort of outer hairs that you get on a lot of food animals. So it's easier to process than a lot of animal hair and then that's how you get mohair. (Ah) Personally i really enjoy working with mohair

hazel

Yeah, I know it gets a bad reputation for being itchy, but I think that's kind of a hangover from late 80s jumpers that were sort of brushed mohair. Which, yeah, it can be very fuzzy and nice but can be itchy whereas Mohair is actually a really strong material.

Liz

It is like said the staple length can be up to four inches. (Mm) So that's gonna get you in a nice strong fiber.

hazel

Yeah, yeah, I've heard of it being used as a replacement for nylon in sock yarns.

Liz

That makes a lot of sense. I like the sound of mohair socks. I might have to make some at some point. (Go for it) sounds cozy. (Yeah.)

So yeah other uses of goats. Apparently cat gut... So for people who don't know it's most often used for the strings of things like violins. But you also get it in expensive tennis rackets. (Oh) used as internal stitches in some countries. (Oh, like medically).Mmhmm (Wow). Not generally in the West. But because it's cheap. It's cheaper to make than more modern stitches. It is sometimes.

hazel

if it works. Yeah.

Liz

It's also apparently the traditional thing to use the hanging grandfather clock weights. (That's very specific) It is and i love that.

And since the 80s the United States military has used them for training medical doctors (How?) So because their physiology in some places is very similar to humans, as a lot of mammals is, (okay.)

content warning, animal cruelty. They use them for practicing treating battlefield injuries, right? They used to use dogs for it. But that was phased out because people don't like the idea of dogs being used for this kind of thing. So in the 80s, they switched over to goats. (I see) Apparently, they do use mannequins and things like that as well. But people generally feel that you need that experience of it being on a living thing. (Yeah) And frankly, I would rather that they practiced on a goat than sort of came out to me having been blown up by a mine or something, and where there's like, Okay, this is my first time on a meat. (Yeah)

That isn't the only use they're being put to in the US though. (Okay) So there's a plant called kudzu, which is incredibly invasive in parts of the southern US to the point that it will just take over entire buildings very quickly. So they bring in goats to eat it.

hazel

Right Are they particularly like, will

just eat this plant, or everything else as well,

Liz

well this is kudzu will basically take over an entire area, it will just be a blanket of this one plant. (Okay, I see) to the point that you basically need to just get rid of it all and start again

hazel

oh, that's that's very helpful of them.

Liz

It is.

Liz

Because I mean, goats will eat most things because they're their browsers, which is basically the animal version of the phrase I'll try anything once. They don't really have a speciaLized diet, they will just kind of go for whatever's about.

hazel

I had that in my perception of goats. It, it seems a very goat type thing. They look like they would eat anything.

Liz

Which is another reason why they're good for mountainous areas because they'll just eat whatever they can get. Interestingly, they have, they can move the sides of their top lip independently, which is something they share with sheep and horses. (wow) Which is why they can eat things like gorse because they can maneuver their lips around the spiky parts to just get to the tasty parts.

hazel

Oh, that's amazing.

Liz

I do have a couple of other strange goat anatomy facts to finish off with if you like.

hazel

They are like there are a lot of things about goats that kind of freak me out. And I think that is one of them. Although it is cool. So hit me with some more weird goat facts.

Liz

So most hoofed animals, like the standard for hoofed animal is it walks on its toes. (yeah). Goats are basically en point. On the very tips like a ballet dancer, (oh right) Which is why they're so good at climbing including sheer cliffs and trees.

hazel

Yeah, I've seen pictures of goats just halfway up a sheer cliff like how did you get there? Sorry, did you say trees as well?

Liz

There are places where goats are grazed up trees as standard In parts of the Middle East it's not uncommon to just come across a tree full of goats well there's food up there and they're on their tippy toes so they get to go and get it

hazel

the goat harvest is very very fruitful this year

Liz

they also have square pupils

hazel

yes which very freaky

Liz

freak me out but they apparently help with panoramic vision. They have a broader like width of vision than humans with our pathetic circular pupils have and it also helps not let in too much light from above.

hazel

Right. Is is the the freaky people thing why they were associated with the devil in Christian like mythology.

Liz

From what I can tell, it seems to be a combination of things like satyrs and descriptions of the devil having cloven hooves, (right) And also they're associated in the Middle Ages with promiscuity (okay) including the concept that they will whisper lewd things in the ears of saints

hazel

with their very movable lips.

Liz

It makes it lewder I'm sure

Liz

you you also get an association with figures like Krampus (yep) And Nuuttipukki who's which is a sort of finnish Krampus like character.

And these are pre Christian folklore, folkloric figures. So there's a theory that there's kind of a conflation. (Okay) But the weirdest thing about goats eyes is that. So the pupils aren't square square, they're more kind of a long, a wide rectangle. And those pupils will stay parallel with the ground regardless of the goat's head position, which is the thing that freaks me out the most about them. (that's weird). It's always gonna be preventing too much light like getting in from above, even if the goat is looking up. (Wow) pupil is going to stay in that same position.

hazel

What? I mean, that sounds very useful for them. But it's also

Liz

it is but also I don't like it.

Liz

But yeah, this association of goats and lewdness may be a part of this association of goats with lewdness, according to a American doctor called Samuel X, Radbill may be what led to them being used less as an alternative to breast milk. Because there was a theory that suckling infants would take on the characteristics of whoever was breastfeeding them, whether that was you know, picking up characteristics from their mother or from different animals. So, you would never give your baby pigs milk because, you know, you don't want them to be like a pig.

hazel

I mean, I probably wouldn't anyway, to be fair,

Liz

but you also end up with a preference for donkey over goat because donkeys you know, they're hard workers. they're patient versus goats and their libidos so if you want your child's if you want your child to be a good contributing member of society you give them donkey milk

hazel

noted! parenting tips from bread and thread podcast

Liz

please do not give your children the milk of random farm animals at least at least not you know straight from the source. Pasteurisation is important. (yeah) So, yeah, that's that's goats. It's still one of my favorite animals still freak me out.

hazel

Thank you. I learned a lot of things are not as scary as I thought. Although they are a bit weird.

Liz

They are but for different reasons.

hazel

Yes. I actually kind of like the idea is like having having a couple goats or something though. Like, they're quite, quite domestic feeling.

Liz

I'm not entirely sure what that means. But I feel like I agree,

hazel

I just like the idea of like, you know, a little cottage with like some chickens and a goat outside and little garden

one of my favorite books when I was a kid was Heidi. So

Liz

that does make a lot of sense for what I know about you. I can I can see you up in the Alps. frolicking. (Yeah) you are a Frolicker

hazel

Guilty as charged.

Liz

So what is our local larder this week?

hazel

Right now. It's a bit of a departure from goats. But in honor of possibly the best fish and chips I've ever had in my life. A few days ago. I'm going to talk about mushy peas.

Liz

I do love a mushy pea.

hazel

Me too. I used to not like them. But I have to say I've been converted in recent years.

Liz

They're great. They are great.

hazel

So for anyone who has not come across mushy peas, they are I mean, it's pretty difficult to describe. Honestly, like

Liz

they are peas. they are peas aren't they?

hazel

They are actually peas.

Yeah, anytime I tried to describe them, it kind of sounds gross, but it's not. So mushy peas. Basically what it is it's like a really thick pea soup. Almost like like a consistency of a really thick soup slash sauce. Made of peas. cooked until they're kind of mushy. Like they're quite mushy. But some of the peas are still like pea shaped. And you eat them with fish and chips.

Liz

You're right. It sounds disgusting.

hazel

they're really good. I promise.

So that is quite a quite a UK food. I think. And they're eaten pretty widely, I think. Although according to a YouGov survey from 2014 37% of people who have fish and chips have mushy peas with them. So they're kind of not, they're not universally liked but like goes up to 66% in Manchester.

Liz

Yes. Correct.

hazel

And they are known occasionally as Manchester caviar.

Liz

You know what, it's probably meant to be insulting but I'll take it.

hazel

I feel like because I've had like some restaurants just like full on putting that on the board, so I feel like it's been reclaimed. So yeah, mushy peas are popular across the British Isles, but I would say probably more popular in the north. I don't know that many people who eat them down here, although I do

Liz

I have been informed by friends from the South that there are chippies that just don't offer it. (Oh) which feels sinful.

hazel

Yeah, that's sucks. That's just not offering a full range of accompaniments.

Liz

You got to have something wet.

hazel

Yeah. You gotta eat dip your chips in them. Great. I usually get them because I feel like it makes it a bit healthier. Although, it probably doesn't i Although apparently they are quite good for they are quite healthy, apparently. Although I feel like it's probably healthier. If you have like homemade things than like the canned ones, but

Liz

I mean it is also with a big plate of deep fried stuff.

hazel

Yeah, and a lot of places put green food coloring in it. Like some some of them come out and it's like radioactive green. Which I think they do to try and make it more appetizing because I otherwise like if you if you essentially overcook peas, they don't they're not bright green anymore.

Liz

Because some of the tastiest mushy peas i've had been basically Brown.

hazel

Yeah. So they're made from marrow fat peas, which are like a large very starchy variety of pea So that's why it has to be this particular pea because that's what will create the mushiness like if you use a different kind of pea, it won't come out right they'll just be overcooked peas. But ideally, you want them to go just mushy enough for it to be a thick sauce. But to still have like identifiable peas in there.

Liz

i know how disgusting this sounds but it's so good.

hazel

They're so good. Like it's it's just so comforting. I can't describe please give give them a chance give the peas a chance

Liz

Give peas a chance

hazel

so a pea is actually harvested when it starts to dry on the plant. So in order to make the mushy peas they have to be soaked overnight. In order to rehydrate the pea before they can be cooked. Now the term mushy peas seems to come from around the 1970s. Like that's when chip shops started serving mushy peas as a thing. But the concept of mushy peas I'm convinced is much much older.

Liz

It feels wrong for it not to be

hazel

yes. Because we know that peas and beans were were like a big part of people's diet in the British Isles pretty much going back a long long time. So according to Clarissa Dickson writer of the history of English food. They were a massive part of the average like rural medieval diet. So like the same piece pottage in the pot - Pease Pottage hot pease pottage cold pease pottage in a pot nine days old. Shows you like how much people were eating because these were crops that would give you a lot of protein. They were quite healthy, but they were also easily stored. So you could dry the peas, store them and then reheat them or soak them when you needed them. And that would help keep you going through the winter as well. So they're such a massive part of the national diet. And the method of cooking mushy peas is so similar that like it just it makes so much sense that it would be an evolution or like a remnant I guess of that part of our diets. (Yeah) especially like, perhaps in the northern regions where as well, where sort of traditions can tend to hang on a bit longer.

Liz

And the invention of fish and chips been such a working class thing that they've just kind of ended up combined.

hazel

Yeah, like it makes sense that you would have like, you've got a bit of your pea dish left. So you reheat it to have with your fish and chips and then just becomes a thing. Yeah, so that is an international mushy pea day you'll be pleased to know

Liz

when is it and can we celebrate

hazel

ninth of November and absolutely

Liz

Oh, that's a good time of year for mushy peas as well. (Yes) when winter's just closing in a little bit.

hazel

You need the stodge Oh, hold on. Apparently now it's eighth of November.

Liz

Why did it move?

hazel

I don't know. You won't be surprised to know it started in a pub

Liz

course it did.

hazel

But so when I first read about it, it was the ninth of November but I've just looked up the the international mushy pea day website to check and it is now eighth of November

giving the mushy pea the limelight for the day. An opportunity to spoil pea fans or to convert the not so sure. I will link to the international mushy pea day website when this episode goes up. So there you go a brief Oh, oh they've got a page called recipes except spelled peas

Liz

[crosstalk] That sounds choice though.

hazel

It does - peas on toast. That's genius.

Liz

I've never considered that. shall we wrap up the podcast before we just spent another hour gushing about mushy peas

hazel

Yeah, yeah, let's, I hope you all enjoyed that. You can look at it at your leisure.

Liz

If you want to give us some money for mushy peas we have a Patreon bread and thread where you can get access to a Discord server where we like to talk about things we've been cooking and making and just chat about history stuff in general. And there's also monthly patreon exclusive recipes.

hazel

We also have a Twitter at bread and thread where you can find teasers for upcoming episodes, links and pictures of things we talk about on the podcast when the episodes come out, and also just like retweets of things that we think are relevant.

Liz

We're also on Tumblr. She has the same content as the Twitter and you can email us if you have an episode suggestion. Or if you just want to say hi, at Bretton through a podcast@gmail.com.

hazel

And we have a YouTube also bread and thread where we have YouTube versions of our episodes, the audio for people who prefer that.

Liz

So thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai