Full9

We seem to be having a party almost all the time now on this thread. Things are really starting to move ahead.

This is great about the comment on genengnews.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">genengnews.com  ! The news about 3-BP is starting to circulate around. Whatever the post was on the site, it wasn't from me! I might be able to put up my feet soon and just let the wave of interest in 3-BP accumulate.

I went to genengnews.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">genengnews.com  . I did not see the comments. Do you have to register to see the comments?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by lilyt on Sat Jul 04, 2015 03:06 PM
Quote | ReplyI didnt explained it properly, comment was under the link on facebook from someone named "Sebestian Beastmode", let me cite:
Sebastian Beastmode Peter Pederson et al. at Hopkins developed drugs targeting the Warburg effect a few years ago, using 3-bromopyruvate. Others have also done so. This results is not "for the first time" as the article claims. It is a promising area of research because the Warburg effect appears to be present in the majority of cancers. :) Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitter Genelle

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sat Jul 04, 2015 05:36 PM
Quote | ReplyI sent a copy to my oncologist
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Jul 04, 2015 09:39 PM
Quote | ReplyI have a question: If 3BP is dosed at a specific amount per kg...does this presume that the "kilogram" consists of an average amount of soft tissue and bone? My guy has severe cachexia and is literally skin and bone. He is functioning OK, aside from the fatigue, but could I be OD'ing him if I start at 0.5 per kg? I just thought of this...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:01 PM
Quote | ReplyFrom the melanoma article: "Based on the reference 3BP dosage range in humans (2–3.5 mg/kg body weight) reported recently..."

This was the description of the melanoma patient:

"Immediately after admission, initial evaluation revealed that he had dyspnea, orthopnea, hypotension (BP, 90/60 mmHg), anorexia, generalized anasarca (mostly nutritional edema), rightward shift in cardiac apical beat (dextrocardia), bulging metastatic mass through the left chest wall, and painful regions over his left chest wall and back. Laboratory evaluation confirmed hypoalbuminemia, hypoproteinemia, and anemia, along with normal renal and liver functions. The patient's whole left lung was destroyed by lung metastasis, per CT scan (Figures 2C–F), with no air entry on the left side."

This patient also had anorexia issues. It would seem to me that the best approach to use with dosing is to carefully dose to response. This it what the doctors did for the melanoma patient. Start under the dosing range ( the melanoma doctors started at 1.0 mg/kg. You could start wherever you liked {possibly even lower than 0.5 mg/kg. The important thing at the start is just to establish that you can move the markers with treatment. Perhaps start out to find the minimum dose that can move the markers.).

Now that we have seen that paracetamol can sometimes help when combined with 3-BP, it might be an idea to try and limit 3-BP while taking advantage of the amping effect of paracetamol. Other things can also possibly amp response such as butyrate etc. . As soon as you can see that the markers are responding to the treatment, you can move up the dosage in a careful manner with the help of the portable monitors.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 2:01 AM Jcancom wrote:

From the melanoma article: "Based on the reference 3BP dosage range in humans (2–3.5 mg/kg body weight) reported recently..."

This was the description of the melanoma patient:

"Immediately after admission, initial evaluation revealed that he had dyspnea, orthopnea, hypotension (BP, 90/60 mmHg), anorexia, generalized anasarca (mostly nutritional edema), rightward shift in cardiac apical beat (dextrocardia), bulging metastatic mass through the left chest wall, and painful regions over his left chest wall and back. Laboratory evaluation confirmed hypoalbuminemia, hypoproteinemia, and anemia, along with normal renal and liver functions. The patient's whole left lung was destroyed by lung metastasis, per CT scan (Figures 2C–F), with no air entry on the left side."

This patient also had anorexia issues. It would seem to me that the best approach to use with dosing is to carefully dose to response. This it what the doctors did for the melanoma patient. Start under the dosing range ( the melanoma doctors started at 1.0 mg/kg. You could start wherever you liked {possibly even lower than 0.5 mg/kg. The important thing at the start is just to establish that you can move the markers with treatment. Perhaps start out to find the minimum dose that can move the markers.).

Now that we have seen that paracetamol can sometimes help when combined with 3-BP, it might be an idea to try and limit 3-BP while taking advantage of the amping effect of paracetamol. Other things can also possibly amp response such as butyrate etc. . As soon as you can see that the markers are responding to the treatment, you can move up the dosage in a careful manner with the help of the portable monitors.

Thanks J. Appreciate your input as always.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:14 PM
Quote | ReplyOne of the outstanding questions that I would like to pose to the thread is: What about a patient who had high markers for LDH etc., though had clear organ function? Should rapid maximal cancer destruction be the objective initially.

In both the liver and melanoma patients, there was substantial organ dysfunction which interfered with the processing of the destroyed cancer. For both of them this ultimately became more of the problem than the cancer itself. In fact, both patients seem to have been overtreated with 3-BP. (The liver patient had a TLS episode and the melanoma patient probably would have had one as well.)

Though I am wondering what the strategy would be for a patient that had serious cancer, yet not significant organ dysfunction. Would aggressive 3-BP be the best treatment or would a more gradual approach be best? The main concern that if one waited a new met might emerge in the brain that might be quite difficult to treat.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:25 PM
Quote | ReplyI think one other thing that should be noted is that we only have one published IV 3-BP patient. We should all probably stay away from fixating too much on the numbers from this one patient. It is quite possible that this patient was published because his response was so startling. It is probably a much better (and safer) strategy to think in terms of dosing to response: See how dosing changes the numbers for your patient and then gain control over the markers.

This is exactly what the melanoma doctors did. They spent a few weeks just getting comfortable with pushing the numbers around. At the start treatment, 3-BP would knock down the numbers and then they would rebound.  Later the treatment simply overwhelmed LDH.

If you develop a feel for what is happening for a particular patient, then you will have a personalized treatment. Different patients will probably respond differently to 3-BP treatment so you do not want to get too focused in on what happened to the melanoma patient as it might not apply to other patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 2:25 AM Jcancom wrote:

I think one other thing that should be noted is that we only have one published IV 3-BP patient. We should all probably stay away from fixating too much on the numbers from this one patient. It is quite possible that this patient was published because his response was so startling. It is probably a much better (and safer) strategy to think in terms of dosing to response: See how dosing changes the numbers for your patient and then gain control over the markers.

This is exactly what the melanoma doctors did. They spent a few weeks just getting comfortable with pushing the numbers around. At the start treatment, 3-BP would knock down the numbers and then they would rebound.  Later the treatment simply overwhelmed LDH.

If you develop a feel for what is happening for a particular patient, then you will have a personalized treatment. Different patients will probably respond differently to 3-BP treatment so you do not want to get too focused in on what happened to the melanoma patient as it might not apply to other patients.
Getting blood tests done almost daily is very challenging unless you work in a lab. I wonder what a reasonable number of times per week would be.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:11 PM
Quote | ReplyWith the melanoma patient, when they were just feeling around at the low end of the dosing range they did 4 labs over a one week period. When they moved up the dose, they went to daily labs.

These frequent lab readings might only need to be done over a fairly short perod of time. Also, it might not be required to do a complete lab every day. Perhaps only a few markers would be needed. Once the main tumor mass has been seriously weakened, then dosing might move more toward a maintenance strategy. This is what happened with the liver patient. After initial high dosing, he went to a monthly dosing schedule.

Of course, with the portable monitors you might receive much of the vital information that could be obtained with a lab result, though the monitors would give immediate results. You could use the information from these monitors in your dose to response strategy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 3:11 AM Jcancom wrote:

With the melanoma patient, when they were just feeling around at the low end of the dosing range they did 4 labs over a one week period. When they moved up the dose, they went to daily labs.

These frequent lab readings might only need to be done over a fairly short perod of time. Also, it might not be required to do a complete lab every day. Perhaps only a few markers would be needed. Once the main tumor mass has been seriously weakened, then dosing might move more toward a maintenance strategy. This is what happened with the liver patient. After initial high dosing, he went to a monthly dosing schedule.

Of course, with the portable monitors you might receive much of the vital information that could be obtained with a lab result, though the monitors would give immediate results. You could use the information from these monitors in your dose to response strategy.
It would be nice if there was an LDH meter...there's something for you to invent.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:22 AM
Quote | ReplyWe have been trying to figure out for a while whether a lactate monitor is similar to an LDH monitor. Lactate monitors have been sold to high performance cyclists to monitor their performance. It would be very cool if lactate monitors would provide useful information to cancer patients.

Lactate is one of the main by-products of the faulty glycolysis process that Warburg noted. So, it is at least plausible that this makes sense. (Check back on the thread for further on this topic. Use the wiki and the Find function to locate it.)

I have started to wonder whether a barium enema type route of administration could work with 3-BP. Apparently, with an air contrast barium enema they forced air through one's rectum and this spreads throughout the colon in order to provide better X-Ray results. Sounds like fun. I wonder whether a somewhat similar procedure could be used with 3-BP. Perhaps there could be a way to force nebulized 3-BP air into one's rectum (sort of like nebulizing to the lung). This might give fairly clear targeting to the GI tract. This would have benefits in terms of safety and probably efficacy.

(Might want to check about having a perforation in the colon)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:58 AM
Quote | ReplyThis url gives an anti-cancer treatment approach: Water fasting with 3-BP, Get your Glucose-Ketone index below 1.

"What would you do? Just to speak it out clearly."

**:** I would stop eating."

**"**Completely?"

**:** "I’d get my index down below 1, that’s for sure. And then I would transition off to these high-fat, nutritious kinds of diets, ketogenic diets, and maintain my index. And then of course, we’re investigating – it’s very hard to get funds to do this kind of stuff too, because it’s not considered sexy science – what is the best combinatorial therapy that would work with therapeutic fasting and ketogenic diets, that would put the greatest amount of pressure.

And most of it has to do with what kind of non-toxic drugs would you dovetail in with therapeutic fasting and ketogenic diets? And like hypobaric oxygen therapy, 2-deoxyglucose, 3-bromopyruvate, oxaloacetate. I mean, we can go down these lists. Most of these are non-patentable drugs, but they have tremendous power when used together with these other therapies. And most of this stuff is just trying to figure out the dosages, the timing."

(could go to site and search for bromopyruvate)

**PQQ (Pyrroloquinoline Quinone)**: Mentioned as a metod of mitochondrial biogenesis

http://thequantifiedbody.net/water-fasts-as-a-potential-tact
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:28 AM
Quote | ReplyThat's interesting, perhaps you could combine fasting with things that lower blood sugar. Alpha lipoic acid, garlic, cinnamon, etc. It was suggested to be cautious if doing such combination. Lowering blood sugar too much might be dangerous.

http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/cinnamon-and-benefits-for-diab

It would seem the easier way to move down your glucose levels than having to rely entirely on fasting.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:54 PM
Quote | ReplyI am the senior author on a peer-reviewed paper on complete remission using DCA (dichloroacetate) after progression on CHOP-Rituxan in a man with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL).

I believe that to move novel treatments into the mainstream of cancer care we must first show efficacy of that treatment or that combination of treatments. In our case report the patient had a very abnormal FDG PET/CT study which we believe is a biological marker of enhanced glycolysis of the tumor.  But we need confirmation of our case report with other studies in humans before jumping to add paracetamol to DCA.  Otherwise, the 99% of treating MDs out there will ignore the findings.

Strum SB, Adalsteinsson O, Black RR, et al: Case report: Sodium dichloroacetate (DCA) inhibition of the "Warburg Effect" in a human cancer patient: complete response in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma after disease progression with rituximab-CHOP. J Bioenerg Biomembr 45:307-15, 2013.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 01:17 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 4:54 PM sbstrum wrote:

I am the senior author on a peer-reviewed paper on complete remission using DCA (dichloroacetate) after progression on CHOP-Rituxan in a man with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL).

I believe that to move novel treatments into the mainstream of cancer care we must first show efficacy of that treatment or that combination of treatments. In our case report the patient had a very abnormal FDG PET/CT study which we believe is a biological marker of enhanced glycolysis of the tumor.  But we need confirmation of our case report with other studies in humans before jumping to add paracetamol to DCA.  Otherwise, the 99% of treating MDs out there will ignore the findings.

Strum SB, Adalsteinsson O, Black RR, et al: Case report: Sodium dichloroacetate (DCA) inhibition of the "Warburg Effect" in a human cancer patient: complete response in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma after disease progression with rituximab-CHOP. J Bioenerg Biomembr 45:307-15, 2013.
Good for you Dr. Strum! Excellent to see you here.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 01:23 PM
Quote | ReplyPart of the problem is that we don't have the luxury of time...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 01:26 PM
Quote | ReplyI think if we look around a little bit, we could find DCA treaters here. Would IV DCA count?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 01:33 PM
Quote | ReplyIf I am not mistaken, black seed (cumin) thymoquinone suppresses glutathione in cancer cells. I'll look up that when I get back.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 01:34 PM
Quote | ReplyThere is some off thread excitement now about dosing with gelatin capsules with 3-BP. This seems remarkably easy.

Some internet sources state that gel caps will make it through the stomach in tact and then dissolve in the small intestine. Can anyone confirm this? This would be very helpful for people with GI tumors.

One question not sure about is whether buffering would be needed or could just straight 3-BP be used.

Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 02:19 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 5:26 PM Jcancom wrote:

I think if we look around a little bit, we could find DCA treaters here. Would IV DCA count?
All our oncological naturopaths in BC offer DCA.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Sun Jul 05, 2015 02:54 PM
Quote | ReplyIs Journal of Bioenergetics and Biomembranes reputable? I wrote on a Polish cancer forum about 3BP and one of the issues raised by a senior member of that forum was that "it is not a clinical journal"
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Sun Jul 05, 2015 03:46 PM
Quote | ReplyOur patient with a complete remission of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) for over one year used oral DCA.  Another patient in Canada with aggressive NHL was refused treatment by the Canadian healthcare establishment. Her daughter sought out DCA, contacted me, followed the protocol and after one year her mother's lymph nodes have disappeared. Of course the Canadian MDs refused to obtain baseline FDG PET/CT or any other imaging studies or other markers.  Not one communication from the Canadian medical oncologist to me regarding what was a death sentence given to the patient which was converted so far into one year of high quality life.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Sun Jul 05, 2015 03:48 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 6:54 PM Freyr wrote:

Is Journal of Bioenergetics and Biomembranes reputable? I wrote on a Polish cancer forum about 3BP and one of the issues raised by a senior member of that forum was that "it is not a clinical journal"
It is a peer-reviewed journal and it is recognized by PubMed, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi.

Some very reputable authors have published on this site.

Stephen Strum, MD, FACP
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 03:49 PM
Quote | ReplyThe Journal of Bioenergetics and Biomembrances is where the liver cancer patient was reported to. A whole issue of that journal with that patient report was devoted to 3-BP. Most of the expert opinion on 3-BP has been published in that journal.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22328020

It seems somewhat stealthy. I had not been aware of this journal before the 3-BP story, though perhaps people who are more knowledgable would recognize it as a leader.

Perhaps what was meant by "it is not a clinical journal" was that it typically does not report clinical trials results etc. That is possibly true. Though for the liver cancer patient, they might have made an exception. I do not think that this in any degrades the quality of the patient report for the liver cancer  patient.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 05:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 7:46 PM sbstrum wrote:

Our patient with a complete remission of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) for over one year used oral DCA.  Another patient in Canada with aggressive NHL was refused treatment by the Canadian healthcare establishment. Her daughter sought out DCA, contacted me, followed the protocol and after one year her mother's lymph nodes have disappeared. Of course the Canadian MDs refused to obtain baseline FDG PET/CT or any other imaging studies or other markers.  Not one communication from the Canadian medical oncologist to me regarding what was a death sentence given to the patient which was converted so far into one year of high quality life.
Dr Strum, you may remember me from your forum. I am in Canada. We have received the most APPALLING treatment up here including a remark from a doctor at the cancer agency asking my husband if he had made arrangements for cremation. They are, in my very experienced opinion, evil. They scorn the US doctors for all their "unnecessary" tests. Our oncological naturopaths provide DCA. Our medical oncologist refused to get back to Dr. Higano in Seattle about a low dose chemo when we were considering it. He said, "I have other commitments." It is truly frightening that these people are allowed to treat patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 05:49 PM
Quote | ReplyHere is the study on thymoquinone from black seed and depletion of glutathione in prostate cancer cells (and presumably all cancer cells although not necessarily). http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 05:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 9:49 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Here is the study on thymoquinone from black seed and depletion of glutathione in prostate cancer cells (and presumably all cancer cells although not necessarily). http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou nd-kills-prostate-cancer-cells-lab-study.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou
OOps, sorry, wrong ref: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20511679
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 06:41 PM
Quote | ReplyThere is some off thread excitement about using enteric coatings as a way to directly target the intestintes with 3-BP.

Enteric coatings allow you to get a medication through the acidity of the stomach. Once in a more alkaline environment the coating dissolves.This  would be ideal when targetting the small and large intestine.

Apparently this can be done on a DIY basis.

http://www.pangaeasciences.com/index.html

Almost all that is needed is the enteric coating. Shellac NF seems to be one that is used. Not sure about buffering of the 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 06:45 PM
Quote | ReplyHere's the DIY recipe.

http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/3610652#.VZmvo\_l2B9t
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 06:51 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 10:45 PM Jcancom wrote:

Here's the DIY recipe.

http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/3610652#.VZmvo\_l2B9t "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/3610652#.VZmvo\_l2B9t " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/3610652#.VZmvo\_l2B9t
Thanks J. I will certainly look into this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 07:12 PM
Quote | ReplyCould be a little tricky finding a supplier. Not much of a consumer demand for it. Just make sure you get the food grade version of it Shellac NF and not the shellac used on wood.

http://www.warrenchem.co.za/documentation/product\_list/warre

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 07:20 PM
Quote | ReplyThis gets close. You would want more of a bottle than a spray.

https://www.qzina.com/content/quick-glaze-food-shellac
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 07:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 11:20 PM Jcancom wrote:

This gets close. You would want more of a bottle than a spray.

https://www.qzina.com/content/quick-glaze-food-shellac "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.qzina.com/content/quick-glaze-food-shellac " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.qzina.com/content/quick-glaze-food-shellac
I wonder what "Clean:No" means...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Sun Jul 05, 2015 07:30 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

There is some off thread excitement about using enteric coatings as a way to directly target the intestintes with 3-BP.

Enteric coatings allow you to get a medication through the acidity of the stomach. Once in a more alkaline environment the coating dissolves.This "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  would be ideal when targetting the small and large intestine.

Apparently this can be done on a DIY basis.

http://www.pangaeasciences.com/index.html "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.pangaeasciences.com/index.html " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.pangaeasciences.com/index.html

Almost all that is needed is the enteric coating. Shellac NF seems to be one that is used. Not sure about buffering of the 3-BP.

What scares me about what I am reading on this thread is the lack of basic understanding about ascertaining if a treatment works, or not.

First, ascertain is there is any single agent activity of DCA and of 3BP by going beyond the case reports.

Second, make sure the agent does not change from user to user.

3rd, make sure the protocol is the same.  I would mimic what was done in the DCA paper we published which unfortunately is not open access. But here is a public link via Dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA

Then go from there with dietary additions like a ketogenic diet, etc.  What we too often have is the kitchen sink approach with not knowing what works, what might negate an effective treatment, and we also add up the cost of the treatment.  We have 2 patients with major remissions who had either untreated NHL or relapsed non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) and who used the same dose of oral DCA and the same adjuncts.  See the paper; see page 4 regarding the adjunctive products and mimic that approach.

In an ideal medical world someone at a major center would have looked at the DCA paper, contacted me for the protocol and tried to replicate or refute the activity of DCA in NHL, for starters.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sun Jul 05, 2015 07:58 PM
Quote | ReplyI did IV DCA
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 08:29 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, I totally agree. I would quite enjoy an early from the thread, though I think several on the thread would vote me back. The thread leader will soon be back from vacation, then I will be able to be less prominent.

Sure, everyone would like more of a science based approach to the ideas on the thread. The problem is that in 15 years there has only been 2 published 3-BP patients: both used a different route of administration and had very different clinical presentations. A clinical trial with 3-BP was authorized over two years ago, though it has still not yet started.

I think everyone, myself included, would just be so happy if people with MDs and PHDs could offer people with terminal cancer viable treatment options. The riduculous part is that in the current environment the only people who can offer advice to people with terminal cancer are people who don't have MDs and PHDs (Note to thread: I have neither a MD nor a PHD degree). It is very wrong.  And it makes no sense to me. Why waste all this scientific talent? I am sure those on the thread would be willing to pay something for consulting with such scientists.

It appears in the current context, all the MDs are locked into treating their patients with chemotherapy or other treatments that even the doctors typically do not believe in. I just do not understand why a German model cannot be adopted (That is, doctors and patients can agree on what treatment they want to pursue).

For number 1: Most of those on the thread have bought into the idea that 3-BP has single agent activity. Some on the thread have personal knowledge of its efficacy.

Proving efficacy for 3-BP is fairly easy. Even after lowish dosing it was found to move markers around (for example, with the melanoma patient). Those trying it for themselves could see if they could also move the numbers at lowish doses and if they could then move up to therapeutic dosing.

For number 2: Yes, that is somewhat tricky. Clinical trials can sort this out for you. With 3-BP there are no clinical trials. There probably will be quite a bit of patient to patient differences. All I have thought for that one is just dose to reponse. Without clinical trials there is no way of knowing. Perhaps doing some genetic studies could help.

For number 3: A 3-BP protocol is being set up off thread. The thread is mostly a way to toss some ideas around. It is the first go round. It then goes through a higher level of processing.

The main idea is to stay simple mostly with 3-BP, NaBic, butyrate and paracetamol. Other ideas could top it off like fasting etc. . At some point members from the thread might be interested in publishing their personal results with 3-BP, though I am not totally sure whether pubmed would accept such an effort. (We could always just go with publish to web.)

It would make everyone here happy if this process could be more science based. The problem is that the current medical world is far from ideal. Most of the research never seems to make it out of pubmed. The members of this thread perceive that the research on 3-BP, though not completely established can give them a better chance then the standard of care that has often failed them for so long.

Adult supervision would be greatly appreciated on the thread.

Welcome!

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 08:35 PM
Quote | Reply105.000 Indonesian Rupiah is about US $8.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Shellac-Food-Grade\_104
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 08:39 PM
Quote | ReplyI am not sure what the "Clean:no" means, though that Glaze could make some very tasty treats!

If it didn't work for cancer, then it could always be used for a culinary purpose.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 05, 2015 08:52 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 12:29 AM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I totally agree. I would quite enjoy an early from the thread, though I think several on the thread would vote me back. The thread leader will soon be back from vacation, then I will be able to be less prominent.

Sure, everyone would like more of a science based approach to the ideas on the thread. The problem is that in 15 years there has only been 2 published 3-BP patients: both used a different route of administration and had very different clinical presentations. A clinical trial with 3-BP was authorized over two years ago, though it has still not yet started.

I think everyone, myself included, would just be so happy if people with MDs and PHDs could offer people with terminal cancer viable treatment options. The riduculous part is that in the current environment the only people who can offer advice to people with terminal cancer are people who don't have MDs and PHDs (Note to thread: I have neither a MD nor a PHD degree). It is very wrong.  And it makes no sense to me. Why waste all this scientific talent? I am sure those on the thread would be willing to pay something for consulting with such scientists.

It appears in the current context, all the MDs are locked into treating their patients with chemotherapy or other treatments that even the doctors typically do not believe in. I just do not understand why a German model cannot be adopted (That is, doctors and patients can agree on what treatment they want to pursue).

For number 1: Most of those on the thread have bought into the idea that 3-BP has single agent activity. Some on the thread have personal knowledge of its efficacy.

Proving efficacy for 3-BP is fairly easy. Even after lowish dosing it was found to move markers around (for example, with the melanoma patient). Those trying it for themselves could see if they could also move the numbers at lowish doses and if they could then move up to therapeutic dosing.

For number 2: Yes, that is somewhat tricky. Clinical trials can sort this out for you. With 3-BP there are no clinical trials. There probably will be quite a bit of patient to patient differences. All I have thought for that one is just dose to reponse. Without clinical trials there is no way of knowing. Perhaps doing some genetic studies could help.

For number 3: A 3-BP protocol is being set up off thread. The thread is mostly a way to toss some ideas around. It is the first go round. It then goes through a higher level of processing.

The main idea is to stay simple mostly with 3-BP, NaBic, butyrate and paracetamol. Other ideas could top it off like fasting etc. . At some point members from the thread might be interested in publishing their personal results with 3-BP, though I am not totally sure whether pubmed would accept such an effort. (We could always just go with publish to web.)

It would make everyone here happy if this process could be more science based. The problem is that the current medical world is far from ideal. Most of the research never seems to make it out of pubmed. The members of this thread perceive that the research on 3-BP, though not completely established can give them a better chance then the standard of care that has often failed them for so long.

Adult supervision would be greatly appreciated on the thread.

Welcome!

What I find interesting is that, I have met no less than seven oncologists and one heart surgeon who have refused chemo for themselves or their wives and were either at clinics in Mexico, attending an energy medicine conference, or in my local naturopath's office. One actually told my husband that the worst decision he ever made was to go into oncology and "prescribe drugs I know either don't work or hasten my patients' demise." (That one's wife had triple negative breast cancer.) With this sort of thing going on, I am relieved to be part of a patient group where we take control. I'll go with as much evidence as I can get, published, unpublished, trialled or not trialled, as at this point, there is very little to be lost. My guy is hanging on by a thread and thickening that thread is my only concern.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 05, 2015 09:07 PM
Quote | ReplyOne of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sun Jul 05, 2015 09:31 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 9:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 05, 2015 7:46 PM sbstrum wrote:

Our patient with a complete remission of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) for over one year used oral DCA.  Another patient in Canada with aggressive NHL was refused treatment by the Canadian healthcare establishment. Her daughter sought out DCA, contacted me, followed the protocol and after one year her mother's lymph nodes have disappeared. Of course the Canadian MDs refused to obtain baseline FDG PET/CT or any other imaging studies or other markers.  Not one communication from the Canadian medical oncologist to me regarding what was a death sentence given to the patient which was converted so far into one year of high quality life.
Dr Strum, you may remember me from your forum. I am in Canada. We have received the most APPALLING treatment up here including a remark from a doctor at the cancer agency asking my husband if he had made arrangements for cremation. They are, in my very experienced opinion, evil. They scorn the US doctors for all their "unnecessary" tests. Our oncological naturopaths provide DCA. Our medical oncologist refused to get back to Dr. Higano in Seattle about a low dose chemo when we were considering it. He said, "I have other commitments." It is truly frightening that these people are allowed to treat patients.
What a nightmare for you and your husband!  And I am appalled at their using the word "cremation".  They must think they will always be in perfect health and nothing will ever befall them.  Forget them--they are uncaring and negative--not healers as they should be.

The  two medical  oncologists in the U.S. that I have met with also had closed ears and hearts.  When my cancer spread to the spine, I was advised to take bisphosphanates--typical  to use for such--and I was not a happy camper learning of their potential side effects.

However, as usual I researched this and knew about them prior to my doctor's visit, found out that those with serious dental problems should be also under advisement of their treating dentist. Information from the dentist should be vital in determining the usage of bisphosphanates. This class of drugs can cause irreversible jaw necrosis--in other words, the jaw bone breaks down, dies, and then the patient is in one big mess--imagine a cancer patient now being in this position!

I explained my TMJ dental history to her--the years of treating the temporomandibular joint, etc.--and still being treated for it.  I had serious questions/doubts--and could there be any other avenue to help?  Well, she completely ignored me--put on a stone-faced look--and said:  "One injection a month for 12 months".  And that was the end of the discussion--she would  not abide any more thoughts about it on my part--and this then was the end of my ever seeing her again.

What was she going to do with me if my jaw disintegrated?  Nothing, of course. I would just be in horrific pain and it would be irreversible.  No jaw--that is quite a prospect for someone already dealing with Stage 4 cancer!

Spoke with my treating TMJ specialist and he was astounded! Agreed with me I was not a good candidate at all for bisphosphantes!   Just as he was astounded that the way in which she determined which one of my spinal lesions should be radiated--by pushing very hard on each area to see which one hurt more!  That was great--let's injure each area even more! She never looked at the PET/CT scan to determine this--did not have it in hand.  Went only by a written report!!!  Whoever does not review both before determining a course of treatment?

She then decided that only one area should be radiated --the one that caused me to wince more!  Found out later that vertebrae was 40% gone.  However,  as a follow-up, I took my own copy of the scan to the radiation oncologist--he reviewed it and told me that the other area was only 20% gone--but right near the spinal cord!  I knew that would mean I could get paralyzed if cancer was that close and not radiated.  He wanted to only follow what she suggested--the other area only--they don't like to be on opposite sides, I guess.  After trying to calmly convince him to consider radiating both areas, he still would not consider it.  I felt so hopeless and helpless at this point.

A few days later, he telephoned me and said he had spoken with her--apparently my pleas did not fall on deaf ears.  They now had agreed that both areas should be radiated.

The radiation is another story--we all have so many unpleasant memories--nice way of putting it.

We are all doing our best to stay alive--and then we have to entangle ourselves with these absolutely horrifying encounters with those "in charge".  They are supposed to be the experts!

Well, may we all continue to support one another and contribute on this thread.

And I would like to commend  Dr. Strum for his courage to speak out and think "outside of the box".  I am sure he has been a pariah to other oncologists here in the U.S. who both ignorantly and arrogantly dismiss his thoughts and ideas--despite his positive results.

I think I can get off my soapbox now!!!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sun Jul 05, 2015 09:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 05, 2015 11:30 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 05, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

There is some off thread excitement about using enteric coatings as a way to directly target the intestintes with 3-BP.

Enteric coatings allow you to get a medication through the acidity of the stomach. Once in a more alkaline environment the coating dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dissolves.This " target="\_blank" 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Apparently this can be done on a DIY basis.

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Almost all that is needed is the enteric coating. Shellac NF seems to be one that is used. Not sure about buffering of the 3-BP.
What scares me about what I am reading on this thread is the lack of basic understanding about ascertaining if a treatment works, or not.

First, ascertain is there is any single agent activity of DCA and of 3BP by going beyond the case reports.

Second, make sure the agent does not change from user to user.

3rd, make sure the protocol is the same.  I would mimic what was done in the DCA paper we published which unfortunately is not open access. But here is a public link via Dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA %20NHL%20CR.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA

Then go from there with dietary additions like a ketogenic diet, etc.  What we too often have is the kitchen sink approach with not knowing what works, what might negate an effective treatment, and we also add up the cost of the treatment.  We have 2 patients with major remissions who had either untreated NHL or relapsed non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) and who used the same dose of oral DCA and the same adjuncts.  See the paper; see page 4 regarding the adjunctive products and mimic that approach.

In an ideal medical world someone at a major center would have looked at the DCA paper, contacted me for the protocol and tried to replicate or refute the activity of DCA in NHL, for starters.
Thank you for providing this information.  Appreciate your input--and  your concern for others.

Unfortunately, that ideal medical world does not yet exist--but there are ones like you that give those seeking relief much hope.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:14 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 1:31 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 05, 2015 9:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 05, 2015 7:46 PM sbstrum wrote:

Our patient with a complete remission of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) for over one year used oral DCA.  Another patient in Canada with aggressive NHL was refused treatment by the Canadian healthcare establishment. Her daughter sought out DCA, contacted me, followed the protocol and after one year her mother's lymph nodes have disappeared. Of course the Canadian MDs refused to obtain baseline FDG PET/CT or any other imaging studies or other markers.  Not one communication from the Canadian medical oncologist to me regarding what was a death sentence given to the patient which was converted so far into one year of high quality life.
Dr Strum, you may remember me from your forum. I am in Canada. We have received the most APPALLING treatment up here including a remark from a doctor at the cancer agency asking my husband if he had made arrangements for cremation. They are, in my very experienced opinion, evil. They scorn the US doctors for all their "unnecessary" tests. Our oncological naturopaths provide DCA. Our medical oncologist refused to get back to Dr. Higano in Seattle about a low dose chemo when we were considering it. He said, "I have other commitments." It is truly frightening that these people are allowed to treat patients.
What a nightmare for you and your husband!  And I am appalled at their using the word "cremation".  They must think they will always be in perfect health and nothing will ever befall them.  Forget them--they are uncaring and negative--not healers as they should be.

The  two medical  oncologists in the U.S. that I have met with also had closed ears and hearts.  When my cancer spread to the spine, I was advised to take bisphosphanates--typical  to use for such--and I was not a happy camper learning of their potential side effects.

However, as usual I researched this and knew about them prior to my doctor's visit, found out that those with serious dental problems should be also under advisement of their treating dentist. Information from the dentist should be vital in determining the usage of bisphosphanates. This class of drugs can cause irreversible jaw necrosis--in other words, the jaw bone breaks down, dies, and then the patient is in one big mess--imagine a cancer patient now being in this position!

I explained my TMJ dental history to her--the years of treating the temporomandibular joint, etc.--and still being treated for it.  I had serious questions/doubts--and could there be any other avenue to help?  Well, she completely ignored me--put on a stone-faced look--and said:  "One injection a month for 12 months".  And that was the end of the discussion--she would  not abide any more thoughts about it on my part--and this then was the end of my ever seeing her again.

What was she going to do with me if my jaw disintegrated?  Nothing, of course. I would just be in horrific pain and it would be irreversible.  No jaw--that is quite a prospect for someone already dealing with Stage 4 cancer!

Spoke with my treating TMJ specialist and he was astounded! Agreed with me I was not a good candidate at all for bisphosphantes!   Just as he was astounded that the way in which she determined which one of my spinal lesions should be radiated--by pushing very hard on each area to see which one hurt more!  That was great--let's injure each area even more! She never looked at the PET/CT scan to determine this--did not have it in hand.  Went only by a written report!!!  Whoever does not review both before determining a course of treatment?

She then decided that only one area should be radiated --the one that caused me to wince more!  Found out later that vertebrae was 40% gone.  However,  as a follow-up, I took my own copy of the scan to the radiation oncologist--he reviewed it and told me that the other area was only 20% gone--but right near the spinal cord!  I knew that would mean I could get paralyzed if cancer was that close and not radiated.  He wanted to only follow what she suggested--the other area only--they don't like to be on opposite sides, I guess.  After trying to calmly convince him to consider radiating both areas, he still would not consider it.  I felt so hopeless and helpless at this point.

A few days later, he telephoned me and said he had spoken with her--apparently my pleas did not fall on deaf ears.  They now had agreed that both areas should be radiated.

The radiation is another story--we all have so many unpleasant memories--nice way of putting it.

We are all doing our best to stay alive--and then we have to entangle ourselves with these absolutely horrifying encounters with those "in charge".  They are supposed to be the experts!

Well, may we all continue to support one another and contribute on this thread.

And I would like to commend  Dr. Strum for his courage to speak out and think "outside of the box".  I am sure he has been a pariah to other oncologists here in the U.S. who both ignorantly and arrogantly dismiss his thoughts and ideas--despite his positive results.

I think I can get off my soapbox now!!!
This is not the proper setting to reply to the story you have told above.  I have used bisphosphonate drugs since the 80's and more recently the RANK Ligand inhibitors like denosumab (Xgeva) and have never had a patient with ONJ (osteonecrosis of the jaw).  There are ways to markedly decrease the risk of ONJ, but seldom are those measures followed.  In a different setting we could discuss how to assess bones for possible metastatic disease & the risk of neurological injury, but in this forum on 3BP and DCA, I would prefer not to get side-tracked.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:17 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:23 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 12:52 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 12:29 AM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I totally agree. I would quite enjoy an early from the thread, though I think several on the thread would vote me back. The thread leader will soon be back from vacation, then I will be able to be less prominent.

Sure, everyone would like more of a science based approach to the ideas on the thread. The problem is that in 15 years there has only been 2 published 3-BP patients: both used a different route of administration and had very different clinical presentations. A clinical trial with 3-BP was authorized over two years ago, though it has still not yet started.

I think everyone, myself included, would just be so happy if people with MDs and PHDs could offer people with terminal cancer viable treatment options. The riduculous part is that in the current environment the only people who can offer advice to people with terminal cancer are people who don't have MDs and PHDs (Note to thread: I have neither a MD nor a PHD degree). It is very wrong.  And it makes no sense to me. Why waste all this scientific talent? I am sure those on the thread would be willing to pay something for consulting with such scientists.

It appears in the current context, all the MDs are locked into treating their patients with chemotherapy or other treatments that even the doctors typically do not believe in. I just do not understand why a German model cannot be adopted (That is, doctors and patients can agree on what treatment they want to pursue).

For number 1: Most of those on the thread have bought into the idea that 3-BP has single agent activity. Some on the thread have personal knowledge of its efficacy.

Proving efficacy for 3-BP is fairly easy. Even after lowish dosing it was found to move markers around (for example, with the melanoma patient). Those trying it for themselves could see if they could also move the numbers at lowish doses and if they could then move up to therapeutic dosing.

For number 2: Yes, that is somewhat tricky. Clinical trials can sort this out for you. With 3-BP there are no clinical trials. There probably will be quite a bit of patient to patient differences. All I have thought for that one is just dose to reponse. Without clinical trials there is no way of knowing. Perhaps doing some genetic studies could help.

For number 3: A 3-BP protocol is being set up off thread. The thread is mostly a way to toss some ideas around. It is the first go round. It then goes through a higher level of processing.

The main idea is to stay simple mostly with 3-BP, NaBic, butyrate and paracetamol. Other ideas could top it off like fasting etc. . At some point members from the thread might be interested in publishing their personal results with 3-BP, though I am not totally sure whether pubmed would accept such an effort. (We could always just go with publish to web.)

It would make everyone here happy if this process could be more science based. The problem is that the current medical world is far from ideal. Most of the research never seems to make it out of pubmed. The members of this thread perceive that the research on 3-BP, though not completely established can give them a better chance then the standard of care that has often failed them for so long.

Adult supervision would be greatly appreciated on the thread.

Welcome!
What I find interesting is that, I have met no less than seven oncologists and one heart surgeon who have refused chemo for themselves or their wives and were either at clinics in Mexico, attending an energy medicine conference, or in my local naturopath's office. One actually told my husband that the worst decision he ever made was to go into oncology and "prescribe drugs I know either don't work or hasten my patients' demise." (That one's wife had triple negative breast cancer.) With this sort of thing going on, I am relieved to be part of a patient group where we take control. I'll go with as much evidence as I can get, published, unpublished, trialled or not trialled, as at this point, there is very little to be lost. My guy is hanging on by a thread and thickening that thread is my only concern.
Very little in this world is black vs white. The same is true for chemotherapy.  I would maintain that what makes for successful treatment of anything relates to two key factors:

people of special talent (PST)

protocols of promise (POP)

When MOPP chemo came out we started curing those with HD (Hodgkin’s disease). When Einhorn described his chemo regimen to treat testicular cancer many men with far advanced disease were cured with chemo.  Many women with BC (breast cancer) have lived without recurrent disease after adjuvant chemo.  I have been in cancer medicine x 50 years and seen a lot of good. I will also attest to seeing a lot of lousy oncology: medical, surgical and radiation based. Again, it boils down to people of special talent (PST) using protocols of promise (POP).

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:41 AM

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On Jul 05, 2015 9:49 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Here is the study on thymoquinone from black seed and depletion of glutathione in prostate cancer cells (and presumably all cancer cells although not necessarily). http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou nd-kills-prostate-cancer-cells-lab-study.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/6/36767/black-seed-oil-compou
thymoquinone (TQ) is highly interesting with many peer-reviewed papers published, including the one involving Dr. Mondal (senior author Koka).  Here is a link to that full PDF:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Koka%2010%20TQ%2

It is very common to see exciting studies in mice, hamsters, cell cultures showing anti-cancer effects only to not see these when treating humans.  I have yet to see a man with PC (prostate cancer) in my 33 years of treating this disease respond to Nigella sativa or its active ingredient TQ. This may be an issue of dose, bioavailability or simply that in vivo it is not active.

It would be great if there was indeed a reputable group of individuals, whatever their degree or non-degree, that had the ability to test these many unproven methods and once and for all confirm or refute their value.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Mon Jul 06, 2015 08:01 AM
Quote | ReplyI would not blame oncologists for slow progress in cancer therapies. Cancer is a truly diabolical disease and for a long time pretty much nothing was known about cancer except that it comes from body's own cells that for some reason start to multiply out of control. It's only in the last 15 years or so when significant progress was made with targeted therapies, immunotherapy, oncolytic viruses, TIL etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 09:36 AM
Quote | ReplyDo Cyberknife. Targeted pencil beam radiation
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:05 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 1:36 PM Genelle wrote:

Do Cyberknife. Targeted pencil beam radiation
This is metastasized PCa Genelle....a little late for Cyberknife.

I concur that many things that are successful in vitro and in xenografts, fail miserably in humans.

The issue with current cancer research is that it is very specific and gene/mutation oriented. Perhaps they need to step back a little to see what causes those mutations. Rather like Drs Ko and Pedersen, who see the forest for the trees. And yes, there are obvious causes such as inhaling asbestos, for certain cancers and a little advance has been made in the treatment of some types. But the money is being spent barking up the wrong tree in my opinion.

I mentioned glutathione for for its role (or lack thereof) in PCa, but as a glutathione depleter.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:15 AM
Quote | ReplyIt looks like the Clean / Unclean concept is based on religious observances. Shellac NF is a secretion derived from the lac insect. It would clearly be considered unclean in some religious traditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal

Many wines are also considered unclean.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by audiop on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:21 AM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum, thanks for your generous contributions here. Reading the DCA case study (and pardon, I wonder about this regimen:

"... The DCA was mixed with 10 ounces of Mountain DewTMcontaining 55 mg of caffeine. TM also used vitamin B1 at 500 mg/d (through 12/10/08), alpha lipoic acid 600 mg bid, green tea (JarrowTM) 500 mg bid containing 74 mg of EGCG and 35 mg of caffeine per 500 mg ..."

You suggest adding on a ketogenic diet.  It wouldn't take much Mountain Dew to throw you out of ketosis.  My wife has been on a strict KD (along with HBOT, ketone supplements per D'Agostino) and the occasional chemotherapy (w/dexamethasone) quickly spoils her blood glucose/ketone levels.  Do you have an opinion as to what in Mountain Dew (caffein, suger?) was important in the study response?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:22 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 2:15 PM Jcancom wrote:

It looks like the Clean / Unclean concept is based on religious observances. Shellac NF is a secretion derived from the lac insect. It would clearly be considered unclean in some religious traditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal

Many wines are also considered unclean.
Thanks J :)  I did not know this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:22 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:15 PM Jcancom wrote:

It looks like the Clean / Unclean concept is based on religious observances. Shellac NF is a secretion derived from the lac insect. It would clearly be considered unclean in some religious traditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean\_animal

Many wines are also considered unclean.
Thanks J :)  I did not know this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:28 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:17 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
Excellent Dr. Strum! I wish Daniel (PhD) were here to comment but he will be back soon. Daniel has a protocol based on that of Dr. Ko I believe, that appears to be working for those he knows who have used it. We start it this week as we don't have time to sit around and wait, but this kind of input would be very helpful. Thank you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:30 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:05 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:36 PM Genelle wrote:

Do Cyberknife. Targeted pencil beam radiation
This is metastasized PCa Genelle....a little late for Cyberknife.

I concur that many things that are successful in vitro and in xenografts, fail miserably in humans.

The issue with current cancer research is that it is very specific and gene/mutation oriented. Perhaps they need to step back a little to see what causes those mutations. Rather like Drs Ko and Pedersen, who see the forest for the trees. And yes, there are obvious causes such as inhaling asbestos, for certain cancers and a little advance has been made in the treatment of some types. But the money is being spent barking up the wrong tree in my opinion.

I mentioned glutathione for for its role (or lack thereof) in PCa, but as a glutathione depleter.
Not particularly relevant to this thread on 3BP but being a medical oncologist focused on PC (prostate cancer) for 33 years, I would comment on the following:

1. There are many options for metastatic PC that go well beyond what most general oncologists offer PC patients.

2. Most docs forget that the key target in PC is the AR (androgen receptor).

3. There are many problems with cancer research but your paragraph 3 comment I believe does not touch on the reality of where the problems are.  Drs. Ko & Pedersen are not clinicians & unless you are face to face with a patient in dire need of physician help it is impossible to understand all of the issues involved in the treatment of a cancer patient.  In PC, if you want a far better grasp of essential concepts read: “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival” by yours truly. See http://tinyurl.com/blot2zm.  This is an ebook that costs all of $9.95 & is best viewed on a PC or a large screen Mac.

My comment on thymoquinone (TQ) paper by Koka et al was that whatever the mechanism of action of TQ (in this case authors cite dR (down-regulation) of GSH (glutathione)), TQ in Nigella sativa did not effect a change in the key Biological End Point (BEP) of men with PC i.e.  PSA.  There are some scientists at major institutions like MD Anderson that have written hundreds of papers in the peer-reviewed literature on natural substances and their anti-cancer effects (Agarwal is the scientist) yet the translation of these findings in cells, mice, hamsters, etc has not occurred in humans.  If all of these reports were confirmed in humans we should be curing cancers left & right.  And some of us would love to see the End of Cancer.

My frustration with 3BP is that I cannot find any scientist or MD that is willing to provide me a formal protocol using 3BP alone or with whatever adjunctive therapies they feel are important. As a clinician (board certified medical oncologist & Internist) I can't spend the months putting together a formal protocol which then needs to be given the stamp of approval by the FDA and IRB (Institutional Review Board).  Dr. Ko wants me to create the protocol, which likely I will have to do.  So far, no email reply from Dr. El Sayed from Colombia on his sharing his protocol with me.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:40 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:21 PM audiop wrote:

Dr. Strum, thanks for your generous contributions here. Reading the DCA case study (and pardon, I wonder about this regimen:

"... The DCA was mixed with 10 ounces of Mountain DewTMcontaining 55 mg of caffeine. TM also used vitamin B1 at 500 mg/d (through 12/10/08), alpha lipoic acid 600 mg bid, green tea (JarrowTM) 500 mg bid containing 74 mg of EGCG and 35 mg of caffeine per 500 mg ..."

You suggest adding on a ketogenic diet.  It wouldn't take much Mountain Dew to throw you out of ketosis.  My wife has been on a strict KD (along with HBOT, ketone supplements per D'Agostino) and the occasional chemotherapy (w/dexamethasone) quickly spoils her blood glucose/ketone levels.  Do you have an opinion as to what in Mountain Dew (caffein, suger?) was important in the study response?
You are absolutely right; I am wrong.  I am on a ketogenic diet restricting my Carb intake to < 30 grams per day.  One can of Mountain Dew is probably close to that amount of carb.  Just checked & 46 gms sugar in one can. See http://www.caffeineinformer.com/sugar-in-drinks.

I should simply MIMIC or DUPLICATE what patient TM did since you cannot argue with success.  In fact, who knows if the sugar in the Mountain Dew was more important in the DCA effect than the caffeine (which was why the patient was taking the Mountain Dew).

I am waiting to get the full report of the 2nd patient with NHL who is now out one year on DCA alone and who I advised to mimic what patient TM did.  TM was the man in our case report on DCA.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:28 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 5:17 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
Excellent Dr. Strum! I wish Daniel (PhD) were here to comment but he will be back soon. Daniel has a protocol based on that of Dr. Ko I believe, that appears to be working for those he knows who have used it. We start it this week as we don't have time to sit around and wait, but this kind of input would be very helpful. Thank you.
So many emails from this thread but I will try to reply as long as i feel something positive is being contributed in both directions.

A formal protocol is often lacking, especially in the many "clinics" that purport to be anti-cancer centers or even integrative centers.  Integrative medicine does not exclude conventional approaches, but sees the many contributions of the body/mind as being part of the equation for health. Examples of this in my practice are:

Checking omega-3 fatty acids & omega-6 fatty acids fatty acid levels to see if the ratios of various fatty acids is optimal or not.  If not, then inflammation is ↑ and this supports cancer growth along with various internal medicine ills.

Checking LDL & other lipid levels with a comprehensive lab test such as NMR lipoprofile per LipoScience. See http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  Many cancers such as PC (prostate cancer) & BC (breast cancer) use LDL as a fuel for growth & spread. See list below that needs to be dealt with when truly practicing integrative medicine:

Cancer Fuels

1. High glycemic carbohydrates [check 2hr-PPBG]

2. LDL [check NMR LipoProfile]

3. Omega 6 fatty acids [check Comprehensive Fatty Acid [CFA] profile]

4. Arginine, Copper [review supplements, diet]

5. Glutamates, aspartates, cysteine [review diet]

6. pro-inflammatory cytokines [check IL-1β, TNF-α, PLA2, Rx COX2 inhibitors]

7. bone-derived growth factors (BDGF) [check bone resorption markers DpD, CTx, TRAP5β]

8. Hypoxia

9. Hypercoagulability [check coagulation panel]

See my powerpoint at https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak

I will see if Daniel has a formal 3BP protocol or not. If so, then the hours spent with messages on this forum will definiely have been fruitful.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:56 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:48 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 2:28 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 5:17 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
Excellent Dr. Strum! I wish Daniel (PhD) were here to comment but he will be back soon. Daniel has a protocol based on that of Dr. Ko I believe, that appears to be working for those he knows who have used it. We start it this week as we don't have time to sit around and wait, but this kind of input would be very helpful. Thank you.
So many emails from this thread but I will try to reply as long as i feel something positive is being contributed in both directions.

A formal protocol is often lacking, especially in the many "clinics" that purport to be anti-cancer centers or even integrative centers.  Integrative medicine does not exclude conventional approaches, but sees the many contributions of the body/mind as being part of the equation for health. Examples of this in my practice are:

Checking omega-3 fatty acids & omega-6 fatty acids fatty acid levels to see if the ratios of various fatty acids is optimal or not.  If not, then inflammation is ↑ and this supports cancer growth along with various internal medicine ills.

Checking LDL & other lipid levels with a comprehensive lab test such as NMR lipoprofile per LipoScience. See http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  Many cancers such as PC (prostate cancer) & BC (breast cancer) use LDL as a fuel for growth & spread. See list below that needs to be dealt with when truly practicing integrative medicine:

Cancer Fuels

1. High glycemic carbohydrates [check 2hr-PPBG]

2. LDL [check NMR LipoProfile]

3. Omega 6 fatty acids [check Comprehensive Fatty Acid [CFA] profile]

4. Arginine, Copper [review supplements, diet]

5. Glutamates, aspartates, cysteine [review diet]

6. pro-inflammatory cytokines [check IL-1β, TNF-α, PLA2, Rx COX2 inhibitors]

7. bone-derived growth factors (BDGF) [check bone resorption markers DpD, CTx, TRAP5β]

8. Hypoxia

9. Hypercoagulability [check coagulation panel]

See my powerpoint at https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak es%20Cancer%20Grow.ppt"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak

I will see if Daniel has a formal 3BP protocol or not. If so, then the hours spent with messages on this forum will definiely have been fruitful.
Thanks again Dr. Strum. Daniel doesn't have an "official" protocol. I did not realize you were in touch with Dr. Ko.

My husband has widespread inflammation following three shots of Ra223 (he has a ferritin of 3000 and just had three transfusions as his haemoglobin was 69). We are using all the anti-inflammatories that we can but have stopped taking ibuprofen during 3BP treatment. He can't take aspirin due to low platelets and petechial skin so we have upped the curcumin considerably. This appears to be compatible with 3BP.

Anyone with PCa should definitely read Dr. Strum's book and, if on Xgeva or having bone mets, take his bone support formula which has been put together for him by Life Extension Foundation.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:08 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:56 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 2:48 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 2:28 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 5:17 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
Excellent Dr. Strum! I wish Daniel (PhD) were here to comment but he will be back soon. Daniel has a protocol based on that of Dr. Ko I believe, that appears to be working for those he knows who have used it. We start it this week as we don't have time to sit around and wait, but this kind of input would be very helpful. Thank you.
So many emails from this thread but I will try to reply as long as i feel something positive is being contributed in both directions.

A formal protocol is often lacking, especially in the many "clinics" that purport to be anti-cancer centers or even integrative centers.  Integrative medicine does not exclude conventional approaches, but sees the many contributions of the body/mind as being part of the equation for health. Examples of this in my practice are:

Checking omega-3 fatty acids & omega-6 fatty acids fatty acid levels to see if the ratios of various fatty acids is optimal or not.  If not, then inflammation is ↑ and this supports cancer growth along with various internal medicine ills.

Checking LDL & other lipid levels with a comprehensive lab test such as NMR lipoprofile per LipoScience. See http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  Many cancers such as PC (prostate cancer) & BC (breast cancer) use LDL as a fuel for growth & spread. See list below that needs to be dealt with when truly practicing integrative medicine:

Cancer Fuels

1. High glycemic carbohydrates [check 2hr-PPBG]

2. LDL [check NMR LipoProfile]

3. Omega 6 fatty acids [check Comprehensive Fatty Acid [CFA] profile]

4. Arginine, Copper [review supplements, diet]

5. Glutamates, aspartates, cysteine [review diet]

6. pro-inflammatory cytokines [check IL-1β, TNF-α, PLA2, Rx COX2 inhibitors]

7. bone-derived growth factors (BDGF) [check bone resorption markers DpD, CTx, TRAP5β]

8. Hypoxia

9. Hypercoagulability [check coagulation panel]

See my powerpoint at https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  es%20Cancer%20Grow.ppt"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" 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I will see if Daniel has a formal 3BP protocol or not. If so, then the hours spent with messages on this forum will definiely have been fruitful.
Thanks again Dr. Strum. Daniel doesn't have an "official" protocol. I did not realize you were in touch with Dr. Ko.

My husband has widespread inflammation following three shots of Ra223 (he has a ferritin of 3000 and just had three transfusions as his haemoglobin was 69). We are using all the anti-inflammatories that we can but have stopped taking ibuprofen during 3BP treatment. He can't take aspirin due to low platelets and petechial skin so we have upped the curcumin considerably. This appears to be compatible with 3BP.

Anyone with PCa should definitely read Dr. Strum's book and, if on Xgeva or having bone mets, take his bone support formula which has been put together for him by Life Extension Foundation.
I am very concerned about Xofigo or Ra223 treatments.  I had one former patient who was doing well but whose oncologist recommended Xofigo. The patient developed severe diarrhea lasting for weeks, and then had what is almost certainly delayed toxicity with lack of salivary gland function leading to dry mouth & inability to swallow solid foods.  He died because someone wanted to use Xofigo despite the literature showing only a 3 month survival advantage.

In PC, I have not seen any significant benefit with DCA, nor would I expect it with 3BP ASSUMING that the findings of FDG (fluorodeoxyglucose) PET/CT is an indicator of turned on HK2 (hexokinase-2) & possible value of a glycolytic inhibitor like DCA or 3BP.  A ferritin of 3,000 may be related to recent blood transfusions.  You have to give some time after the transfusion where ferritin levels tell the patient's status re iron more accurately.  In fact, ferritin is what we call an APR (acute phase reactant) & any cancer/inflammation will ↑ ferritin levels.  Suggest obtain sTfR (soluble transferrin receptor)  as a more reliable indicator of iron stores.  Also, I wonder if your husband has received any EPO (erythropoietin) to try to stimulate red blood cell (RBC) production. Low platelets are not supposed to be a problem after Xofigo compared with other radio-isotopes like Strontium or Samarium.  Being in practice for over 40 years gives me great perspective on what is real and what is hype.  So far, I am not impressed with any radioactive isotope in treating men with PC.  I think they do more harm than good.  Just my opinion.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:18 AM
Quote | ReplyI did it for mets all over and got 1 thing at a time. Did proton 11th thoracic and cyber for several other places. I am rather aggressive so I got them to do it pallative
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:23 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 3:18 PM Genelle wrote:

I did it for mets all over and got 1 thing at a time. Did proton 11th thoracic and cyber for several other places. I am rather aggressive so I got them to do it pallative
REALLY? I will PM you if I may... I cannot see anyone consenting to this above the 49th parallel.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:27 AM
Quote | ReplyI ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:36 AM

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On Jul 06, 2015 3:27 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

I ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
Felix, this is great. I have asked out oncological naturopath for Coley's/Newcastle/whatever the new variation is called and he says my husband's body is too weak at the moment. He also gives hyperthermia but doesn't want to for Don. I am thrilled to hear that Newcastle appears to have worked for you. I am going to make sure he gets this or the equivalent when he gets stronger. We have a Biomat which heats the body to a very high temp but it is hard to maintain.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:26 PM
Quote | ReplyI am about to do the same thing for the cervical nodes becaue they cause terrible headaches even tho there is cncer elsewhere. Unless they are near something dangerous they will do it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:28 PM
Quote | ReplySure you ave to be clever
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:27 PM
Quote | ReplyCurcumin could reasonably be listed in the category of having effects all over the kitchen.

There has been some recent discussion on the thread about methylglyoxal (MG). A recent Indian clinical trial had positive results for it. Curcumin might amplify the effect Of MG.  Curcumin is a glutathione (GSH) depletor, so it would be good to be aware of this if combining 3-BP with paracetamol (another GSH depletor). Might not want to overdo the GSH depletion.

"Glyoxalases (Glo1 and Glo2) are involved in the glycolytic pathway by detoxifying the reactive methylglyoxal (MGO) into D-lactate in a two-step reaction using glutathione (GSH) as cofactor.  ...

As shown infigure 7, curcumin-treated 1321N1 and JIMT-1 cells revealed decreased GSH levels. GSH was diminished by approximately 20% in cells treated with 50 µM curcumin, a concentration which yields approximately 30% inhibition of cell proliferation as presented infigure 3. ...

We found that curcumin showed even a stronger inhibitory effect on Glo1 than the flavonoids quercetin, myricetin, kaempferol, luteolin and rutin. Its inhibitory activity expressed by the Kivalue was in the range of that of S-p-bromobenzylglutathione known to be the strongest inhibitor of Glo1...

Without knowing the precise site of action, curcumin treatment was associated with decreased intracellular GSH which may account for its pro-apoptotic effects[46]but is inconsistent with the observed anti-oxidant properties of curcumin"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:37 PM
Quote | ReplyI'd just like to add something here for Dr. Strum to read. Daniel is no "self-proclaimed expert" on 3BP. He is a compassionate and generous human being who is sharing his own experiences and those of his friends/family with 3BP. That includes sharing his protocol, but as one human to another as opposed to an expert. To many of us who are not researchers with the scientific knowledge that Daniel has, this is very helpful and we take from it what we choose.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:40 PM
Quote | Replymoonlitnight - I couldnt agree more with your comment regarding Daniel!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 2:56 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 2:48 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 2:28 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 5:17 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 1:07 AM Jcancom wrote:

One of the things that I find especially troubling is that many cancer doctors have appeared on this site asking for our input on how to set up 3-BP treatment for their patients.

There can be little doubt at this point that our thread is driving the conversation on 3-BP. Everyone here would be greatly relieved if those in authority would just step and show some leadership with 3-BP.
From what I have read so far on this forum I have no intent on asking for any help on 3BP.  I have hundreds of papers on glycolysis, Warburg effect, DCA, 3BP, HKII, etc.  What is lacking is an approved protocol for administering 3BP.  I wrote a detailed protocol for DCA and have shared it with other MDs. I have asked Dr. El Sayed to share his 3BP protocol with me so I can see the details of all aspects of how they prepared & administered it.
Excellent Dr. Strum! I wish Daniel (PhD) were here to comment but he will be back soon. Daniel has a protocol based on that of Dr. Ko I believe, that appears to be working for those he knows who have used it. We start it this week as we don't have time to sit around and wait, but this kind of input would be very helpful. Thank you.
So many emails from this thread but I will try to reply as long as i feel something positive is being contributed in both directions.

A formal protocol is often lacking, especially in the many "clinics" that purport to be anti-cancer centers or even integrative centers.  Integrative medicine does not exclude conventional approaches, but sees the many contributions of the body/mind as being part of the equation for health. Examples of this in my practice are:

Checking omega-3 fatty acids & omega-6 fatty acids fatty acid levels to see if the ratios of various fatty acids is optimal or not.  If not, then inflammation is ↑ and this supports cancer growth along with various internal medicine ills.

Checking LDL & other lipid levels with a comprehensive lab test such as NMR lipoprofile per LipoScience. See http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm. " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lipoprofile.com/index.cfm.  Many cancers such as PC (prostate cancer) & BC (breast cancer) use LDL as a fuel for growth & spread. See list below that needs to be dealt with when truly practicing integrative medicine:

Cancer Fuels

1. High glycemic carbohydrates [check 2hr-PPBG]

2. LDL [check NMR LipoProfile]

3. Omega 6 fatty acids [check Comprehensive Fatty Acid [CFA] profile]

4. Arginine, Copper [review supplements, diet]

5. Glutamates, aspartates, cysteine [review diet]

6. pro-inflammatory cytokines [check IL-1β, TNF-α, PLA2, Rx COX2 inhibitors]

7. bone-derived growth factors (BDGF) [check bone resorption markers DpD, CTx, TRAP5β]

8. Hypoxia

9. Hypercoagulability [check coagulation panel]

See my powerpoint at https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" 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rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.dropbox.com/s/wewd7872jgv08eg/Strum%20What%20Mak

I will see if Daniel has a formal 3BP protocol or not. If so, then the hours spent with messages on this forum will definiely have been fruitful.
Thanks again Dr. Strum. Daniel doesn't have an "official" protocol. I did not realize you were in touch with Dr. Ko.

My husband has widespread inflammation following three shots of Ra223 (he has a ferritin of 3000 and just had three transfusions as his haemoglobin was 69). We are using all the anti-inflammatories that we can but have stopped taking ibuprofen during 3BP treatment. He can't take aspirin due to low platelets and petechial skin so we have upped the curcumin considerably. This appears to be compatible with 3BP.

Anyone with PCa should definitely read Dr. Strum's book and, if on Xgeva or having bone mets, take his bone support formula which has been put together for him by Life Extension Foundation.
Thanks for mentioning the bone support formula--checked it out--very familiar with ingredients and agree about their efficacy.

As a side, the medical oncologist I saw did not provide any support similar to this.  Instead, when seeing my list of supplements, actually scoffed and said it was not necessary ever for anyone to take any oral vitamins/minerals--one could get sufficient amounts just by eating food.  I just did not say a thing.  Sometimes it is better to just keep quiet and choose one's battles.

And this advice regarding supplements was given by someone that has a very large bowl of candy in her waiting room--offering this "treat" instead to very sick cancer patients.  Go figure...
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:43 PM
Quote | ReplyWhere can you do Newcastle? I even considered looking for an outbreak and going to help the farmers
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:45 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:37 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I'd just like to add something here for Dr. Strum to read. Daniel is no "self-proclaimed expert" on 3BP. He is a compassionate and generous human being who is sharing his own experiences and those of his friends/family with 3BP. That includes sharing his protocol, but as one human to another as opposed to an expert. To many of us who are not researchers with the scientific knowledge that Daniel has, this is very helpful and we take from it what we choose.
Ditto for me, too!  Well-phrased, Moonlitnight.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:49 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:43 PM Genelle wrote:

Where can you do Newcastle? I even considered looking for an outbreak and going to help the farmers

)  Coley's Toxins and a newer version is available to naturopaths. I will ask ours today what the treatment I see on his drug shelves is called.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:50 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 3:27 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

I ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
Felix,

I am a MedOnc focused on PC (prostate cancer) x decades. I wrote a review on oncolytic viruses back 13 years ago as a major treatment on the "horizon".  I am glad to see that your PSA is heading in the right direction i.e.  ↓ .  However, it is important for all of us to be clear in our communications. If the oncolytic virus treatment was started at the same time as the ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) (really anti-hormonal and not hormonal Rx), then you cannot attribute the drop in PSA to the Newcastle Rx. You need to clarify your history.

mebendazole (MZ) is an interesting drug with some definite activity in oncology, especially colorectal cancer (CRC).  I am not aware of any reports of MZ for PC (prostate cancer) so if you have any references please share.

MZ is not well absorbed from the GI tract, so I am not sure how oral dosing with MZ can be effective in cancer therapy unless the literature on bioavailability is in error.  Here is where pharmacologic studies would be helpful.  MZ has a very short half-life in humans i.e.  < 1 hour.

If those on this forum wish to be much better MDs (medical detectives) then download the 30-day free trial of EndNote via EndNote.com  & use the ONLINE portion of EndNote to do a search. Use title words like mebendazole, cancer, bioavailability. etc.

I cannot find any literature on MZ affecting tumor glycolysis.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:52 PM
Quote | ReplyBtter than Zometa developed by NASA FDA approved
Clifford J. Rosen, M.D.Director Of Clinical And Translational Research, Maine Medical Center
Senior Scientist, Maine Medical Center Research Institute
Adjunct Staff Scientist, The Jackson Laboratory, Bar Harbor, Me
Professor Of Medicine, Tufts University School Of Medicine, Boston, Ma
NIAMS Scientific Advisory Board
FDA Advisory Board On Endocrinologic And Metabolic Drugs

Dr. Clifford J. Rosen, M.D. is the Director of Clinical and Translational Research and a Senior Scientist at Maine Medical Center’s Research Institute. His other current positions include Adjunct Staff Scientist at the Jackson Laboratory, and Professor of Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. Dr. Rosen is the founder and Former Director of the Maine Center for Osteoporosis Research and Education. He was the first Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Clinical Densitometry, is the current Editor-in-Chief of The Primer in Metabolic Bone Diseases, and just began a term as Associate Editor for JCEM. His publications include more than 300 peer-reviewed manuscripts, covering both clinical and basic bone biology. Dr. Rosen has overseen numerous phase II and III clinical trials, funded both privately and through the NIH. He is a member of the FDA Advisory Panel on Endocrinologic and Metabolic Drugs and a former chairperson of that committee. He was Permanent Chair of the NIH Review Panel for Skeletal Biology and Bone Diseases for 2002-2004, and is currently a member of the NIAMS Scientific Advisory Board. He served as president of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research in 2002-2003, and was recently honored to present the Louis V. Avioli Memorial Lecture, “Bone Marrow Fat: Neighbor or Nemesis”, at the 30th Annual ASBMR Official Scientific Meeting in Montreal, Canada. Dr. Rosen’s research interests include the genetic regulation of insulin-like growth factor relative to skeletal metabolism,PTH as an anabolic therapy, and the relationship between marrow adipogenesis andosteoblastogenesis. For more information on Dr. Rosen’s research focus, please visit his website:http://www.mmcri.org/cctr/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:53 PM
Quote | Replyhttp://www.marodyne.com/research/  Mesenchymal stem cells are an adult stem cell population can differentiate into a variety of cell types including bone cells (osteoblasts), cartilage cells (chondrocytes), and fat cells (adipocytes). While stem cells are theoretically a self-renewing population, it is known that injury, disease, and aging are associated with decreases in the number of stem cells.

It is believed that decreases in the number of stem cells can impair the normal repair and regenerative processes, as there are fewer cells that can be activated and mobilized.

We have recently shown that low-intensity vibration is capable of increasing the number of bone marrow derived stem cells after at little as 6 weeks of daily treatment. This signal is delivered non-invasively, and is designed to promote the body’s own resident stem cell population. The ability of this increased stem cell pool to promote and accelerate wound healing is currently under study.

This was invented for the astronauts and is FDA approved. I first looked into it when I had back surgery. Check it out and let me know what you think about the stem cells. It has research for osteoporosis but I am curious about the stem cells
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 01:55 PM
Quote | ReplyI tried that but was told I had to go to Mexico
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Jul 06, 2015 02:01 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:43 PM Genelle wrote:

Where can you do Newcastle? I even considered looking for an outbreak and going to help the farmers
I've got it from the russian oncologist, that had worked many years in Moscow oncological center and treated women with breast cancer. He has invented method of extracting the La Sota virus from the vaccine for chickens and used it in his practice. I have found his phone number in the telephone directory and called him.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 02:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:27 PM Jcancom wrote:

Curcumin could reasonably be listed in the category of having effects all over the kitchen.

There has been some recent discussion on the thread about methylglyoxal (MG). A recent Indian clinical trial had positive results for it. Curcumin might amplify the effect Of MG.  Curcumin is a glutathione (GSH) depletor, so it would be good to be aware of this if combining 3-BP with paracetamol (another GSH depletor). Might not want to overdo the GSH depletion.

"Glyoxalases (Glo1 and Glo2) are involved in the glycolytic pathway by detoxifying the reactive methylglyoxal (MGO) into D-lactate in a two-step reaction using glutathione (GSH) as cofactor.  ...

As shown infigure 7, curcumin-treated 1321N1 and JIMT-1 cells revealed decreased GSH levels. GSH was diminished by approximately 20% in cells treated with 50 µM curcumin, a concentration which yields approximately 30% inhibition of cell proliferation as presented infigure 3. ...

We found that curcumin showed even a stronger inhibitory effect on Glo1 than the flavonoids quercetin, myricetin, kaempferol, luteolin and rutin. Its inhibitory activity expressed by the Kivalue was in the range of that of S-p-bromobenzylglutathione known to be the strongest inhibitor of Glo1...

Without knowing the precise site of action, curcumin treatment was associated with decreased intracellular GSH which may account for its pro-apoptotic effects[46]but is inconsistent with the observed anti-oxidant properties of curcumin"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510
I have used a lot of curcumin over the years along with other conventional anti-cancer therapies e.g. chemo, RT, surgery, ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) and despite agreeing how positive the literature is on various effects of curcumin, I have not seen any evidence of anti-cancer activity.  I was one of the first to jump on the use of pomegranate in PC based on UCLA studies showing ↑ PSA doubling time (PSADT) but in my clinical practice I have not been able to replicate there findings.  Trust in that I am NOT your conventional chemotherapy "pushing" oncologist, but I do believe that there is science in medicine.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Mon Jul 06, 2015 02:34 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 5:52 PM Genelle wrote:

Btter than Zometa developed by NASA FDA approved
Clifford J. Rosen, M.D.Director Of Clinical And Translational Research, Maine Medical Center
Senior Scientist, Maine Medical Center Research Institute
Adjunct Staff Scientist, The Jackson Laboratory, Bar Harbor, Me
Professor Of Medicine, Tufts University School Of Medicine, Boston, Ma
NIAMS Scientific Advisory Board
FDA Advisory Board On Endocrinologic And Metabolic Drugs

Dr. Clifford J. Rosen, M.D. is the Director of Clinical and Translational Research and a Senior Scientist at Maine Medical Center’s Research Institute. His other current positions include Adjunct Staff Scientist at the Jackson Laboratory, and Professor of Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. Dr. Rosen is the founder and Former Director of the Maine Center for Osteoporosis Research and Education. He was the first Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Clinical Densitometry, is the current Editor-in-Chief of The Primer in Metabolic Bone Diseases, and just began a term as Associate Editor for JCEM. His publications include more than 300 peer-reviewed manuscripts, covering both clinical and basic bone biology. Dr. Rosen has overseen numerous phase II and III clinical trials, funded both privately and through the NIH. He is a member of the FDA Advisory Panel on Endocrinologic and Metabolic Drugs and a former chairperson of that committee. He was Permanent Chair of the NIH Review Panel for Skeletal Biology and Bone Diseases for 2002-2004, and is currently a member of the NIAMS Scientific Advisory Board. He served as president of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research in 2002-2003, and was recently honored to present the Louis V. Avioli Memorial Lecture, “Bone Marrow Fat: Neighbor or Nemesis”, at the 30th Annual ASBMR Official Scientific Meeting in Montreal, Canada. Dr. Rosen’s research interests include the genetic regulation of insulin-like growth factor relative to skeletal metabolism,PTH as an anabolic therapy, and the relationship between marrow adipogenesis andosteoblastogenesis. For more information on Dr. Rosen’s research focus, please visit his website:http://www.mmcri.org/cctr/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mmcri.org/cctr/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mmcri.org/cctr/
I am not sure what this post relates to.  Sometimes I find the order of posts on this site confusing.

A prior post by Felix about the Newcastle virus being given by a Russian oncologist bothers me for the following reasons:

1. I know of no oncolytic viral therapy that is in use that is not part of a clinical trial. In other words, there is no FDA approved oncolytic Rx for cancer yet.

2. It takes a lot of skill to create an oncolytic viral therapy. When I was in the USSR post-Chernobyl, I was "secreted" in to see many cancer patients.  I would tell you that what I saw was barbaric.  I hope that your oncologist from Russia is not in this "league".  Note I am happy that your PSA is lowering but be a smart & empowered patient.  The very first chapter in my ebook on “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival” is about ECaP (exceptional cancer patients) a la Bernie Siegel of Love, Medicine & Miracles.

3. Remember, Caveat emptor applies to patients, who in today's world involving the "business of medicine" are customers.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 02:40 PM
Quote | ReplyZometa prevents bone osterblasts from recycling. The Mayodye pad builds bone. I think it would be better than Zometa
Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterFelixShmidel

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Jul 06, 2015 03:29 PM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum,

I was diagnosed with PC in 2008 with Gleason 9, all cores positive (PSA 12.5, locally advanced). I had 13 months triple (anti) hormonal therapy that had dropped PSA to 0. Then in the absence of the (anti) hormonal therapy, PSA grew to 8 and in 2010 I had been treated with radiation therapy. In one year PSA had dropped to 1.3, but then the PC had recurred. My PSA had started to grow with one month doubling time in the absense of treatment. I tried curcumin, soda and some other things, but they coud not slow the PSA increase. I had held it in check with intermittent Casodex 150 mg for two weeks until 2013. At the end of 2013, I had started the Firmagon (Degarelix) injections, that didn't seem to help, so I thought, that I have CRPC. I have added Casodex 150 mg every day. This (with monthly Firmagon and Proscar 5 mg) is my treatment until now. Until July 2015, the PSA has been in the interval between 5 and 7. It turned out that I am still sensitive to (anti) hormonal therapy. The Firmagon reduces testosterone in my case only after injection, but it grows after that. I asked my oncologist to change Firmagon for other drug, but he refused, since I was stable. In June 2015, I have started the treatment with the Newcastle virus, and PSA has dropped from about 5 to 3.5.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Jul 06, 2015 03:56 PM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Mon Jul 06, 2015 04:01 PM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum

What do you think will happen to DCA? A discussion was raised about it on a major Polish cancer forum and the majority of responses were "at best it's not harmful"

Why do you think there's been such a long hiatus with 3BP? It's anti cancer potential was discovered a long ago and as of now nothing was done, not even stage 1 trials and we're left with a cohort of patients of n=2.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 05:55 PM
Quote | ReplyNot sure where you are but Loma Linda in CA specialies in proton for prostate. Guy in my church did it with very little side effects.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mahkcots on Mon Jul 06, 2015 06:29 PM
Quote | ReplySorry for the off topic question but I have recently been trying to get in touch with Dr.'s Ko and Geschwind. Has anyone had any luck reaching out to these individuals and does anyone have the contact information for either as I am afraid I may be using the wrong numbers. Thanks
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 06:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 10:29 PM mahkcots wrote:

Sorry for the off topic question but I have recently been trying to get in touch with Dr.'s Ko and Geschwind. Has anyone had any luck reaching out to these individuals and does anyone have the contact information for either as I am afraid I may be using the wrong numbers. Thanks
This is not off topic at all. Ko is not answering to anyone and Geschwind seems not to be able to help. Prof. Pedersen on the other hand is very helpfull. What woul you expect from them?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 06:45 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 10:29 PM mahkcots wrote:

Sorry for the off topic question but I have recently been trying to get in touch with Dr.'s Ko and Geschwind. Has anyone had any luck reaching out to these individuals and does anyone have the contact information for either as I am afraid I may be using the wrong numbers. Thanks
I tried to get hold of Dr. Ko via email. Used all my editorial skills ;) and heard nothing back.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 06:45 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 7:56 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
Felix, congratulation with the good results. How do you get the treatment? Are you going to the dr. Keshelava to get the treatment or he/she is sending it at home? What is the price?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:50 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 3:27 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

I ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
Felix,

I am a MedOnc focused on PC (prostate cancer) x decades. I wrote a review on oncolytic viruses back 13 years ago as a major treatment on the "horizon".  I am glad to see that your PSA is heading in the right direction i.e.  ↓ .  However, it is important for all of us to be clear in our communications. If the oncolytic virus treatment was started at the same time as the ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) (really anti-hormonal and not hormonal Rx), then you cannot attribute the drop in PSA to the Newcastle Rx. You need to clarify your history.

mebendazole (MZ) is an interesting drug with some definite activity in oncology, especially colorectal cancer (CRC).  I am not aware of any reports of MZ for PC (prostate cancer) so if you have any references please share.

MZ is not well absorbed from the GI tract, so I am not sure how oral dosing with MZ can be effective in cancer therapy unless the literature on bioavailability is in error.  Here is where pharmacologic studies would be helpful.  MZ has a very short half-life in humans i.e.  < 1 hour.

If those on this forum wish to be much better MDs (medical detectives) then download the 30-day free trial of EndNote via EndNote.com "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://EndNote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">EndNote.com   & use the ONLINE portion of EndNote to do a search. Use title words like mebendazole, cancer, bioavailability. etc.

I cannot find any literature on MZ affecting tumor glycolysis.
Mebendazole is nontoxic and has potential for so many types of cancer that i would add this for prostate as well even if thee is no specific study on that.

MZ is not well absorbed but even in this case the lowest doze has been effective in humans leading to serious reduction of tumor activity in humans. See the ACC case.

To support the above statements see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096024/

In addition, it is well known that the absorption of MZ can be greatly enhanced by Cimetidine and administration with fatty meals. There are other ways to enhance its absorption.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 5:50 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 3:27 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

I ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
Felix,

I am a MedOnc focused on PC (prostate cancer) x decades. I wrote a review on oncolytic viruses back 13 years ago as a major treatment on the "horizon".  I am glad to see that your PSA is heading in the right direction i.e.  ↓ .  However, it is important for all of us to be clear in our communications. If the oncolytic virus treatment was started at the same time as the ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) (really anti-hormonal and not hormonal Rx), then you cannot attribute the drop in PSA to the Newcastle Rx. You need to clarify your history.

mebendazole (MZ) is an interesting drug with some definite activity in oncology, especially colorectal cancer (CRC).  I am not aware of any reports of MZ for PC (prostate cancer) so if you have any references please share.

MZ is not well absorbed from the GI tract, so I am not sure how oral dosing with MZ can be effective in cancer therapy unless the literature on bioavailability is in error.  Here is where pharmacologic studies would be helpful.  MZ has a very short half-life in humans i.e.  < 1 hour.

If those on this forum wish to be much better MDs (medical detectives) then download the 30-day free trial of EndNote via EndNote.com "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://EndNote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">EndNote.com   & use the ONLINE portion of EndNote to do a search. Use title words like mebendazole, cancer, bioavailability. etc.

I cannot find any literature on MZ affecting tumor glycolysis.
Mebendazole is nontoxic and has potential for so many types of cancer that i would add this for prostate as well even if thee is no specific study on that.

MZ is not well absorbed but even in this case the lowest doze has been effective in humans leading to serious reduction of tumor activity in humans. See the ACC case.

To support the above statements see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096024/

In addition, it is well known that the absorption of MZ can be greatly enhanced by Cimetidine and administration with fatty meals. There are other ways to enhance its absorption.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:05 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 6:16 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 5:27 PM Jcancom wrote:

Curcumin could reasonably be listed in the category of having effects all over the kitchen.

There has been some recent discussion on the thread about methylglyoxal (MG). A recent Indian clinical trial had positive results for it. Curcumin might amplify the effect Of MG.  Curcumin is a glutathione (GSH) depletor, so it would be good to be aware of this if combining 3-BP with paracetamol (another GSH depletor). Might not want to overdo the GSH depletion.

"Glyoxalases (Glo1 and Glo2) are involved in the glycolytic pathway by detoxifying the reactive methylglyoxal (MGO) into D-lactate in a two-step reaction using glutathione (GSH) as cofactor.  ...

As shown infigure 7, curcumin-treated 1321N1 and JIMT-1 cells revealed decreased GSH levels. GSH was diminished by approximately 20% in cells treated with 50 µM curcumin, a concentration which yields approximately 30% inhibition of cell proliferation as presented infigure 3. ...

We found that curcumin showed even a stronger inhibitory effect on Glo1 than the flavonoids quercetin, myricetin, kaempferol, luteolin and rutin. Its inhibitory activity expressed by the Kivalue was in the range of that of S-p-bromobenzylglutathione known to be the strongest inhibitor of Glo1...

Without knowing the precise site of action, curcumin treatment was associated with decreased intracellular GSH which may account for its pro-apoptotic effects[46]but is inconsistent with the observed anti-oxidant properties of curcumin"

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I have used a lot of curcumin over the years along with other conventional anti-cancer therapies e.g. chemo, RT, surgery, ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) and despite agreeing how positive the literature is on various effects of curcumin, I have not seen any evidence of anti-cancer activity.  I was one of the first to jump on the use of pomegranate in PC based on UCLA studies showing ↑ PSA doubling time (PSADT) but in my clinical practice I have not been able to replicate there findings.  Trust in that I am NOT your conventional chemotherapy "pushing" oncologist, but I do believe that there is science in medicine.
There are both published case and anecdotal stories supporting curcumin effectivnes.

In addition, i have seen evidence of anti cancer activity of IV Curcumin as performed in German clinics today.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 3:27 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

I ask your pardon for offtopic, but we have discussed in this topix about some other treatments, except 3bp.

Now I have tried the Newcastle virus with success: after only one month, my PSA has droped from 5 to 3.5 (the lowest value in a year and a half). I continue hormonal treatment together with the virus.

Secondly, my report, that mebendazole didn't help me may not be correct. It had not lowered the PSA, but I took it (600 mg a day) only for one week. The glucose had temporarily inreased from 90 to 100. I think, that the problem with mebendazole is the same as with other chemo (it also had not helped me): the cancer cells resist by going to sleep state. However mebendazole has almost no side effects, and chemo does have. Also mebendazole seems to prevent cancer cells use sugar.
Felix, thanks for sharing. This is very helpfull and good news are always welcome.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:09 PM
Quote | ReplyDaniel -

What is the reccommended dosage for Mebendazole and Cimetidine?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:13 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 11:09 PM kcervantes wrote:

Daniel -

What is the reccommended dosage for Mebendazole and Cimetidine?
I would take 1g MZ /day and 800mg Cim/day. Half morning and half evening with food.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:19 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is great! The boss is back! What can you do on a beach anyway?

I did my best to mind the fort, though I think there has been something of a mutiny.

Welcome Back!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:24 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 11:19 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is great! The boss is back! What can you do on a beach anyway?

I did my best to mind the fort, though I think there has been something of a mutiny.

Welcome Back!
I second this. Throughout his trip, D. was there for us, answering questions and generally being the caring fellow he is. For that, a public thank you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:33 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 11:24 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:19 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is great! The boss is back! What can you do on a beach anyway?

I did my best to mind the fort, though I think there has been something of a mutiny.

Welcome Back!
I second this. Throughout his trip, D. was there for us, answering questions and generally being the caring fellow he is. For that, a public thank you.
Thank you :)

i am still on holiday and not the boss

I would actualy call J the boss since he was always around fueling the discussions and trying to help others on so many forums.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 06, 2015 07:40 PM

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On Jul 06, 2015 11:33 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:24 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:19 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is great! The boss is back! What can you do on a beach anyway?

I did my best to mind the fort, though I think there has been something of a mutiny.

Welcome Back!
I second this. Throughout his trip, D. was there for us, answering questions and generally being the caring fellow he is. For that, a public thank you.
Thank you :)

i am still on holiday and not the boss

I would actualy call J the boss since he was always around fueling the discussions and trying to help others on so many forums.
Two bosses are better than one. Or is it a boss in the hand is worth two on the beach? I get confused...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 09:05 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 11:40 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:33 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:24 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 11:19 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is great! The boss is back! What can you do on a beach anyway?

I did my best to mind the fort, though I think there has been something of a mutiny.

Welcome Back!
I second this. Throughout his trip, D. was there for us, answering questions and generally being the caring fellow he is. For that, a public thank you.
Thank you :)

i am still on holiday and not the boss

I would actualy call J the boss since he was always around fueling the discussions and trying to help others on so many forums.
Two bosses are better than one. Or is it a boss in the hand is worth two on the beach? I get confused...
That play on words was good for a laugh, Moonlitnight!

Both of our "bosses" are so very much appreciated--they have truly touched our hearts with their compassion and open hearts--continuing to patiently share their knowledge.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:09 PM
Quote | ReplySlightly off topic,  but I was wondering what happened to james-peters?  He always interjected on this thread with such interesting, thoughtful comments....
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:13 PM
Quote | ReplyIt seems like people on this forum are taking 3BP. Are there any positive results on imaging/tumor marker tests?

Has anyone been able to achieve full cure?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 01:38 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 6:40 PM Genelle wrote:

Zometa prevents bone osterblasts from recycling. The Mayodye pad builds bone. I think it would be better than Zometa
Not sure where you got your info re mechanism of action of Zometa but the key issues involving bisphosphonate drugs like Zometa are:

1. Is there evidence of ↑ bone resorption by virtue of high normal to elevated bone resorption markers such as  DpD (deoxypyridinoline) & CTX (C-Terminal Telopeptide, b-Crosslaps)?  Is the bone mineral density (BMD) abnormal using imaging such as quantitative computerized tomography (QCT) bone density?

2. Has the patient dental clearance for a bisphosphonate drug with a written note or consult from the examining dentist?

3. When the patient gets the very FIRST dose of an i.v. bisphosphonate drug is an attenuated dose used to prevent APR (acute phase response) which can be devastating to the patient?

4. Is a comprehensive bone supplement (CBS) being used to prevent hypocalcemia as well as to assure healthy bone formation?

These issues are covered in two eBooks I have been involved with which are available via Amazon Kindle. They are The Primer on Prostate Cancer by Strum & Pogliano and “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival” by Strum.  The latter has a section devoted to BONE INTEGRITY.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 01:46 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 7:29 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

I was diagnosed with PC in 2008 with Gleason 9, all cores positive (PSA 12.5, locally advanced). I had 13 months triple (anti) hormonal therapy that had dropped PSA to 0. Then in the absence of the (anti) hormonal therapy, PSA grew to 8 and in 2010 I had been treated with radiation therapy. In one year PSA had dropped to 1.3, but then the PC had recurred. My PSA had started to grow with one month doubling time in the absense of treatment. I tried curcumin, soda and some other things, but they coud not slow the PSA increase. I had held it in check with intermittent Casodex 150 mg for two weeks until 2013. At the end of 2013, I had started the Firmagon (Degarelix) injections, that didn't seem to help, so I thought, that I have CRPC. I have added Casodex 150 mg every day. This (with monthly Firmagon and Proscar 5 mg) is my treatment until now. Until July 2015, the PSA has been in the interval between 5 and 7. It turned out that I am still sensitive to (anti) hormonal therapy. The Firmagon reduces testosterone in my case only after injection, but it grows after that. I asked my oncologist to change Firmagon for other drug, but he refused, since I was stable. In June 2015, I have started the treatment with the Newcastle virus, and PSA has dropped from about 5 to 3.5.
Felix,

I do consultations in cases such as yours but an email forum does not allow me the full access to all the medical records which must be reviewed and put into an understandable format.  ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) has many nuances regarding its proper use.  It's not just an issue of try this drug or that one.  It involves looking at BEPs (Biological End Points) such as testosterone & free testosterone and using an accurate lab method involving LC/MS/MS.  There are many new agents that can be used as part of ADT which include Abiraterone, Xtandi. There are also adjunctive therapies to enhance the efficacy of ADT such as statins, metformin, COX-2 inhibitors, prolactin inhibitors, DIM, omega-3 fatty acids, and more.  Accurate staging of cancer is seldom done and there are advances that still are not being used to ascertain bone and/or nodal involvement e.g. NaF PET/CT re bone, ferumoxytol or better Combidex re nodal disease.  If the MD does not know the extent of disease (Status) then an intelligent strategy cannot follow.  Some of your statements re your treatment are not very clear.  Again, there is just so much one can do on a forum like this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 01:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 3:13 AM Meech90 wrote:

It seems like people on this forum are taking 3BP. Are there any positive results on imaging/tumor marker tests?

Has anyone been able to achieve full cure?
Hi Meech, Most of us started a short while ago or are about to start. Since the IV/oral/topical and nebulizer routes are all far less efficient than arterial, it is really hard to say if and when results may be seen. I'll certainly update everyone but we can only be tested once a week.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:04 AM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum

Do you think there are options for malignant melanoma beyond what is currently used? So far no therapy has produced response rate higher than 50% in the general patient population. BRAF/MEK combo has a ~70% response rate but only in those 5060% of patients who are BRAF positive. Nivo+Ipi has a 50% response rate but that comes with side effects so severe that over half of people have to halt therapy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 06, 2015 10:45 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 7:56 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
Felix, congratulation with the good results. How do you get the treatment? Are you going to the dr. Keshelava to get the treatment or he/she is sending it at home? What is the price?
The price is 2000 euro for 6 months (18 virus injection portions). I got to dr.Keshel ava and he gave me the virus in the lyophilized form. I took it home and doing injections myself with the insulinsyringe.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by darrenf on Tue Jul 07, 2015 06:38 AM
Quote | ReplyI would think that next to IV that 3bp made into a suppository would be the most effictive.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 08:50 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 8:04 AM Freyr wrote:

Dr. Strum

Do you think there are options for malignant melanoma beyond what is currently used? So far no therapy has produced response rate higher than 50% in the general patient population. BRAF/MEK combo has a ~70% response rate but only in those 5060% of patients who are BRAF positive. Nivo+Ipi has a 50% response rate but that comes with side effects so severe that over half of people have to halt therapy.
Freyr,

I admit to not being well versed in the treatment of melanoma. From what I have read the use of GEP (gene expression profiling) to target therapy makes sense.  If you have done that then pending those results I would find a center that specializes in melanoma & seek consultation there.  Use search engines like PubMed to identify people of special talent (PST) using protocols of promise (POP).  While that is in the works, find any other therapies that are documented to show actual benefits to humans with melanoma, ideally using peer-reviewed literature.  There are many charlatans out there purporting to cure a rainy day in May.  Beware of those.

Compile your medical record in a way that allows anyone involved in your care to use a basic concept: **STATUS '***?'* **STRATEGY.** Without an easily readable medical "log" & without knowing where the disease is, what markers are ↑ & how the manifestations of disease correlate with treatment you are flying blind. That would be my start of such a process.

Then find solid forums that deal specifically with melanoma and follow-up on any leads.  Try to find a medical team that is open to novel therapies. For example, Arginine deiminase (ADI) treatment has shown promising results in many cancers. Basically this treatment depletes the amino acid arginine. So use PubMed or ideally EndNote (online & local libraries) to create a folder of articles on ADI. A key MD in this endeavor is

Richard J. Bold, MD

Division of Surgical Oncology, Suite 3010,

UC-Davis Medical Center

4501 X Street, Sacramento, CA 95817

T: 916-734-5907

F: 916-703-5267

E: richard.bold @ucdmc.ucdavis.edu

Honestly, I do not know if he wants me to share his email address with you but on any of the papers he has senior authored the email is listed at the bottom of page 1. This is the same for other investigators e.g. Drs. Ko & Geschwind (someone had asked for their contact info).

That's probably too much info but it is a start.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 08:58 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 9:48 AM FelixShmidel wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 10:45 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 7:56 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
Felix, congratulation with the good results. How do you get the treatment? Are you going to the dr. Keshelava to get the treatment or he/she is sending it at home? What is the price?
The price is 2000 euro for 6 months (18 virus injection portions). I got to dr.Keshel "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  ava and he gave me the virus in the lyophilized form. I took it home and doing injections myself with the insulinsyringe.
Just nosing in here.  I would want to identify those MDs, scientists who are involved in oncolytic therapy using Newcastle Virus Disease (NVD), find their papers, get their email addresses & write them asking whether they are familiar with the Russian MD.  I would not take lightly someone that says they have developed an oncolytic virus on their own.  I could be totally wrong but due diligence is warranted.  You might get some feedback by doing a PubMed search on oncolytic NVD. I did this using EndNote & found 38 papers on NVD with most having full free PDFs available.  One from 2014 is by Schirrmacher. Read that and contact him: v.schirrmacher@web.de

I hope this is of help to you & others.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Tue Jul 07, 2015 09:04 AM
Quote | ReplyDr.

There's a crowdfunded patient currently undergoing bile duct cancer treatment with 3BP in Scottsdale. Do you think there's a chance for the therapy to be successful? 3BP may not work in some cancers even if it works on others.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 09:10 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 12:58 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 9:48 AM FelixShmidel wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 10:45 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 7:56 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
Felix, congratulation with the good results. How do you get the treatment? Are you going to the dr. Keshelava to get the treatment or he/she is sending it at home? What is the price?
The price is 2000 euro for 6 months (18 virus injection portions). I got to dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  ava and he gave me the virus in the lyophilized form. I took it home and doing injections myself with the insulinsyringe.
Just nosing in here.  I would want to identify those MDs, scientists who are involved in oncolytic therapy using Newcastle Virus Disease (NVD), find their papers, get their email addresses & write them asking whether they are familiar with the Russian MD.  I would not take lightly someone that says they have developed an oncolytic virus on their own.  I could be totally wrong but due diligence is warranted.  You might get some feedback by doing a PubMed search on oncolytic NVD. I did this using EndNote & found 38 papers on NVD with most having full free PDFs available.  One from 2014 is by Schirrmacher. Read that and contact him: v.schirrmacher@web.de

I hope this is of help to you & others.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

I am having trouble seeing who replied to what so I am starting off my replies with the first line.

I followed part of my own advice & did a PubMed search on Keshelava.  I found a paper published in 2009.

Keshelava VV, Dobrovol'skaia N, Chazova NL, et al: [Neoadjuvant therapy of breast cancer using Newcastle disease virus]. Vopr Onkol 55:433-5, 2009.

No free full text, not in English (brackets indicate non-English publication), but an abstract was found:

The role of Newcastle disease virus and neoadjuvant therapy was assessed in 84 cases of breast cancer T1-4N0-2M0 (2005-2008). Combined use of the **virus vaccine and chemotherapy (group A)**, therapy with the **vaccine alone (group B)** and chemotherapy regimen identical with that used in group A (group C) were compared. Histological pattern of tumor and stage were identified using expression of receptors of steroid hormones, oncoproteins Her2/neu and p53 as well as proliferation activity (marker Ki-67) before and after therapy. It was shown that the **efficiency and safety of Newcastle disease virus (apathogenic strain La-Sotha) met specific immuno- and neoadjuvant therapy standards.**

**It would be important to know what the clinical responses were per the above study, and how the oncolytic treatment was accomplished.**

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 09:35 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 1:04 PM Freyr wrote:

Dr.

There's a crowdfunded patient currently undergoing bile duct cancer treatment with 3BP in Scottsdale. Do you think there's a chance for the therapy to be successful? 3BP may not work in some cancers even if it works on others.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

You are referring to Andrew Dickens, a naturopath in Scottsdale who is at the Dayspring Cancer Clinic. I did speak with him per telephone about a month ago hoping that he had a formal protocol to share re 3BP.  He did have IRB (Institutional Review Board) approval (per phone) to use 3BP but from what he told me he was using it in conjunction with many other treatments.  Their fees were in the $20K to 40K for x number of months.  I did take notes but I have lost them or possibly trashed them.  There is a phone number to call on the Dayspring website.

Regarding a chance of 3BP working.... Of course there is a chance.  I know, for example, that the same question is often posed for DCA & for sure we have the one patient (TM) with over a 5 year complete remission on DCA after failed CHOP-Rituxan chemo.

Strum SB, Adalsteinsson O, Black RR, et al: Case report: Sodium dichloroacetate (DCA) inhibition of the "Warburg Effect" in a human cancer patient: complete response in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma after disease progression with rituximab-CHOP. J Bioenerg Biomembr 45:307-15, 2013.

In other patients we have not seen any durable response. I believe that for DCA or 3BP we should see the tumor on imaging with FDG (fluorodeoxyglucose) PET/CT.  What the role of diet is in protocols using DCA is unclear. Our patient was using Mountain Dew as a source of caffeine & that alone contains 56 grams of carb.  Maybe (a wild thought), in the context of a low carb diet in a cancer patient with an avid uptake of FDG, the use of a bolus of sugar in conjunction with DCA is a method to enhance uptake of DCA into the tumor.  Who knows.  Whatever TM did, it was successful. So follow what he did to the letter & see if the results can be replicated.  I was an investigator for a monoclonal antibody (MAB) called TNT (tumor necrosis treatment) being done at USC.  My patient with metastatic PC to bone, and to brain had a dramatic remission and went from hemi-paralysis to being fully functional. It was miraculous and I have seen a lot.  What did the scientists at USC do? They took what worked and mucked it up by humanizing the MAB.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to medical therapies.

Strum SB, Epstein A, Taylor C et al. Response of hormonal refractory prostate cancer (HRPC) to TNT-1 monoclonal antibody. Proc Am Soc Clin Oncol 13:239, 1994.

Treatment options for HRPC are severely limited with response to current chemotherapy regimens usually being of short duration.  TNT-1 is a murine monoclonal antibody which has been shown to bind specifically to degenerating and dead cells of human cancers (Epstein et al Cancer Res 48:5842-5848, 1988).  The antibody recognizes an antigenic domain of nuclear histones which is expressed in all cancers and normal tissues studied to date. Inadequate blood supply and impaired phagocytic responses within the tumor favor the accumulation of degenerating cells adjacent to viable areas of the tumor.  In contrast, normal tissues have a relatively low rate of cell death and are characterized by a rapid and orderly removal of necrotic elements. We report successful treatment with TNT-1 MoAb in a 47 year old man with HRPC with prior treatment that included orchiectomy, flutamide, suramin, radiation therapy and doxorubicin.  Within 36 days after the administration of 50 mg of biotinylated TNT-1 followed by 20 millicuries of I-131-streptavidin given weekly times 2, the PSA declined from 210 to 4.9 and the PAP from 6.5 to 1.2.  The patient was clinically improved and remained stable for 10 months having received only TNT-1 for 2 such treatment cycles. Moderate thrombocytopenia and leukopenia with nadirs at day 36 after treatment were noted.  Further clinical evaluation of TNT-1 against a broad spectrum of tumor types is now being considered.

There is a need to deter the basic scientist involved in a novel therapy to assess the clinical/humane aspects of a treatment before tinkering with such a therapy.  Zeal without context can be dangerous.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 09:45 AM
Quote | ReplyWoohoo! We're number 1! We're number 1!

Our thread has just blew past the leading alternative thread "Solvestrols at Work". They have managed 3 posts this year against over 1500 for our thread.

It is just getting better and better around here. We are attracting some heavy weight scientists and clinicians. I am just feeling a euphoria moment happening. Feel the love everyone.

And all the massive out there lurking, chime in. We are drawing a global audience. We'd all love to hear from you.

Love to Everyone!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:47 AM
Quote | ReplyAmen and again thanks to you and Daniel and to everyone else who is sharing their experience with 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:49 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 12:58 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 9:48 AM FelixShmidel wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 10:45 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 06, 2015 7:56 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Russian oncologist dr. Keshelava has used the complicated process and expensive equipment to produce the virus from the vaccine. He has prescribed me the combination of the virus with the metronomic chemo (50 mg cyclophosphamide daily) according to his patent, but I didn't like chemo, so he has agreed to treat me one month with just the virus and then see.
Felix, congratulation with the good results. How do you get the treatment? Are you going to the dr. Keshelava to get the treatment or he/she is sending it at home? What is the price?
The price is 2000 euro for 6 months (18 virus injection portions). I got to dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">dr.Keshel  ava and he gave me the virus in the lyophilized form. I took it home and doing injections myself with the insulinsyringe.
Just nosing in here.  I would want to identify those MDs, scientists who are involved in oncolytic therapy using Newcastle Virus Disease (NVD), find their papers, get their email addresses & write them asking whether they are familiar with the Russian MD.  I would not take lightly someone that says they have developed an oncolytic virus on their own.  I could be totally wrong but due diligence is warranted.  You might get some feedback by doing a PubMed search on oncolytic NVD. I did this using EndNote & found 38 papers on NVD with most having full free PDFs available.  One from 2014 is by Schirrmacher. Read that and contact him: v.schirrmacher@web.de

I hope this is of help to you & others.
Thank you for this recommendation. Fever-inducing viruses are something my naturopath does but he says it would make my husband's body "have to do too much work."
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:54 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 10:38 AM darrenf wrote:

I would think that next to IV that 3bp made into a suppository would be the most effictive.
Me too. That is how my husband was using the green stuff, which he got via prescription.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:56 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 10:38 AM darrenf wrote:

I would think that next to IV that 3bp made into a suppository would be the most effictive.
Me too.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:04 AM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:19 AM
Quote | ReplyThere is some large developments in 3-BP.

Prescience appears to be close to launching their phase 1 trial. Does anyone know what "with expanded protocols" means ? It sounds very encouraging. Perhaps we are close to the point where free 3-BP by medical experts is near at hand.

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian

The Columbia clinic is now moving away from 3-BP treatment. This should not be a surprise to regular readers of this thread. What does seem surprising is that their position is now that some patients will not only not have a response to 3-BP but could be made worse by 3-BP treatment. This does not seem to make any sense. How could a glycolysis inhibitor possibly make things worse?

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 3:19 PM Jcancom wrote:

There is some large developments in 3-BP.

Prescience appears to be close to launching their phase 1 trial. Does anyone know what "with expanded protocols" means ? It sounds very encouraging. Perhaps we are close to the point where free 3-BP by medical experts is near at hand.

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian  ce/discussion/1st-stateside-3-bromopyruvate/?reply\_sort=asc&page=last#replies"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian

The Columbia clinic is now moving away from 3-BP treatment. This should not be a surprise to regular readers of this thread. What does seem surprising is that their position is now that some patients will not only not have a response to 3-BP but could be made worse by 3-BP treatment. This does not seem to make any sense. How could a glycolysis inhibitor possibly make things worse?

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian  ce/discussion/1st-stateside-3-bromopyruvate/?reply\_sort=asc&page=last#replies"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian
J, there is something-or-the-other known to psychologists that I can't name but it was explained to us many years ago when my daughter was acting out. It went along the lines of "That which I cannot have (or which I have had but disappointed me) I seek to destroy." I am wondering if some of this is at play. If not, then it is very disappointing since these guys were charging an arm and a leg for it. It started, as I recall, with Dr. Rosenberg first lauding 3BP and then saying it was "dangerous." This came after a lady had problems with brain swelling I think. I believe she may have posted here. Dr. Williams (previously a partner of Dr. Rosenberg) continued to use it and has now ceased, possibly for the same reason/s. I recall someone saying that it became "dangerous" if the 3BP didn't get all the cancer...similar to chemo which actually stimulates the more dangerous stem cells. But so many glycolysis inhibitors exist! Is it because 3BP is more successful in that role?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 01:51 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
from Stephen B. Strum, MD to Felix,

I would need to see a review article on the issue of safety, handling, administration, etc in humans having cancer before I would feel comfortable in trying NVD.  If there was a TRUE center looking to resolve the problems of humankind, and obviously employing persons of talent, ethic and humanity, and not driven by greed as their prime directive, then I can see the problem of cancer & other diseases being resolved. Yet, in half a century of work in cancer medicine what I see is GREGO: GREED + EGO, that drives the vast majority of the behavior of Homo sapiens, so-called sentient man.  Yes, there are salt of the Earth people but these seem scattered and unable to come together in a unified front.  And the issue of FDA really boils down to the PEOPLE that man the FDA. I have seen my colleagues in action in the FDA and I am appalled at the conflict of interest and the lack of due diligence.  Then again, the panels that say Yea or Nay are voluntary, highly selected, and occupied by those getting grants which more often than not → conflict of interest.

So, in my experience,  your question is naive to the ills of "humankind".  I love this creation--it is amazing, magnificent and never disappoints in its beauty and awe, but I am disappointed in people--most people.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 01:59 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 5:51 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
from Stephen B. Strum, MD to Felix,

I would need to see a review article on the issue of safety, handling, administration, etc in humans having cancer before I would feel comfortable in trying NVD.  If there was a TRUE center looking to resolve the problems of humankind, and obviously employing persons of talent, ethic and humanity, and not driven by greed as their prime directive, then I can see the problem of cancer & other diseases being resolved. Yet, in half a century of work in cancer medicine what I see is GREGO: GREED + EGO, that drives the vast majority of the behavior of Homo sapiens, so-called sentient man.  Yes, there are salt of the Earth people but these seem scattered and unable to come together in a unified front.  And the issue of FDA really boils down to the PEOPLE that man the FDA. I have seen my colleagues in action in the FDA and I am appalled at the conflict of interest and the lack of due diligence.  Then again, the panels that say Yea or Nay are voluntary, highly selected, and occupied by those getting grants which more often than not → conflict of interest.

So, in my experience,  your question is naive to the ills of "humankind".  I love this creation--it is amazing, magnificent and never disappoints in its beauty and awe, but I am disappointed in people--most people.
You speak my language here. We have so much potential as individual parts of collective consciousness yet many of us cannot control the greed. These people likely need one dose of psilocybin and they would see the big picture, at least according to anecdotal evidence and a Johns Hopkins study :)

During a visit to the provincial Cancer Agency, my husband was asked by a really CRUEL radiation oncologist if he had arranged for cremation "because your prognosis suggests you should." He then barked out a disgusting personal question to do with a man's sexual abilities in front of a female oncologist and a young make intern. My husband refused to answer so he repeated it louder while standing over my husband and I. Again, he refused to answer and the man said, "Because if you can, you should use a condom so your wife doesn't get irradiated." I was so shocked that I couldn't talk. Which is a rare thing. On the way out, my knees gave way. Fortunately, my husbad let it go over his head. I sadly can't.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mahkcots on Tue Jul 07, 2015 02:40 PM
Quote | ReplyI have not recieved anything back from either of them. I was hoping for some information and answers to several questions. I was also hoping that Geschwind could provide some treatment options. Do you know his contact information?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 07, 2015 02:44 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 5:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 5:51 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
from Stephen B. Strum, MD to Felix,

I would need to see a review article on the issue of safety, handling, administration, etc in humans having cancer before I would feel comfortable in trying NVD.  If there was a TRUE center looking to resolve the problems of humankind, and obviously employing persons of talent, ethic and humanity, and not driven by greed as their prime directive, then I can see the problem of cancer & other diseases being resolved. Yet, in half a century of work in cancer medicine what I see is GREGO: GREED + EGO, that drives the vast majority of the behavior of Homo sapiens, so-called sentient man.  Yes, there are salt of the Earth people but these seem scattered and unable to come together in a unified front.  And the issue of FDA really boils down to the PEOPLE that man the FDA. I have seen my colleagues in action in the FDA and I am appalled at the conflict of interest and the lack of due diligence.  Then again, the panels that say Yea or Nay are voluntary, highly selected, and occupied by those getting grants which more often than not → conflict of interest.

So, in my experience,  your question is naive to the ills of "humankind".  I love this creation--it is amazing, magnificent and never disappoints in its beauty and awe, but I am disappointed in people--most people.
You speak my language here. We have so much potential as individual parts of collective consciousness yet many of us cannot control the greed. These people likely need one dose of psilocybin and they would see the big picture, at least according to anecdotal evidence and a Johns Hopkins study :)

During a visit to the provincial Cancer Agency, my husband was asked by a really CRUEL radiation oncologist if he had arranged for cremation "because your prognosis suggests you should." He then barked out a disgusting personal question to do with a man's sexual abilities in front of a female oncologist and a young make intern. My husband refused to answer so he repeated it louder while standing over my husband and I. Again, he refused to answer and the man said, "Because if you can, you should use a condom so your wife doesn't get irradiated." I was so shocked that I couldn't talk. Which is a rare thing. On the way out, my knees gave way. Fortunately, my husbad let it go over his head. I sadly can't.
My heart goes out to you and your husband.  Keep in mind that beautiful Chinese saying we both like--do not let these cruel people and their uncaring, harsh words make that "nest" in your hair.  If you have the time, would you kindly quote it again for me?  I seem to need to re-read it myself, too!

Such horrific words uttered by that heartless oncologist (aka bully) to two people under such strain already.  This form of speech and actions  has a tendency to stick in the minds of those who are tender-hearted-- because it is so shockingly contrary to compassion and fellow feeling.

One oncologist telephoned me and my husband--literally screaming on the phone--when I cancelled my first chemo appointment with him--and he was given  sufficient notice.   He told me I was going to die, etc.  I just calmly let him rant and rave--it was the day after my port had been placed--I was not well at all from the anesthesia.  He had expected me to come in for the chemo that same week--impossible for me. -I was so dizzy and nauseous--could barely function.  Never went back to him again, needless to say.  That would not have been a healing environment or healthy patient/doctor relationship, needless to say.

So many other times encountered arrogance in this cancer journey--my father was a doctor--he never would have treated anyone in that fashion.  Would get up in the middle of the night to help patients if they called and needed help.  He practiced in the 40's-60's--different era?  So it is shocking to me to have been mistreated various times--and to know that others have suffered such, too. Unconscionable for those who profess to be healers-- they apparently have no idea about the mind/body connection at all.

Thank you for the kindness you always demonstrate on this thread--it is much appreciated and valued by others.  Please know that we all support you and truly do care.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 02:50 PM
Quote | ReplyThe answer to all of this is CRISPR.

As soon as people are genetically engineered to be healthy throughout their entire life span (which might be very very long indeed), there will not be much demand for uncaring people.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 02:53 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 6:44 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 5:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 5:51 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
from Stephen B. Strum, MD to Felix,

I would need to see a review article on the issue of safety, handling, administration, etc in humans having cancer before I would feel comfortable in trying NVD.  If there was a TRUE center looking to resolve the problems of humankind, and obviously employing persons of talent, ethic and humanity, and not driven by greed as their prime directive, then I can see the problem of cancer & other diseases being resolved. Yet, in half a century of work in cancer medicine what I see is GREGO: GREED + EGO, that drives the vast majority of the behavior of Homo sapiens, so-called sentient man.  Yes, there are salt of the Earth people but these seem scattered and unable to come together in a unified front.  And the issue of FDA really boils down to the PEOPLE that man the FDA. I have seen my colleagues in action in the FDA and I am appalled at the conflict of interest and the lack of due diligence.  Then again, the panels that say Yea or Nay are voluntary, highly selected, and occupied by those getting grants which more often than not → conflict of interest.

So, in my experience,  your question is naive to the ills of "humankind".  I love this creation--it is amazing, magnificent and never disappoints in its beauty and awe, but I am disappointed in people--most people.
You speak my language here. We have so much potential as individual parts of collective consciousness yet many of us cannot control the greed. These people likely need one dose of psilocybin and they would see the big picture, at least according to anecdotal evidence and a Johns Hopkins study :)

During a visit to the provincial Cancer Agency, my husband was asked by a really CRUEL radiation oncologist if he had arranged for cremation "because your prognosis suggests you should." He then barked out a disgusting personal question to do with a man's sexual abilities in front of a female oncologist and a young make intern. My husband refused to answer so he repeated it louder while standing over my husband and I. Again, he refused to answer and the man said, "Because if you can, you should use a condom so your wife doesn't get irradiated." I was so shocked that I couldn't talk. Which is a rare thing. On the way out, my knees gave way. Fortunately, my husbad let it go over his head. I sadly can't.
My heart goes out to you and your husband.  Keep in mind that beautiful Chinese saying we both like--do not let these cruel people and their uncaring, harsh words make that "nest" in your hair.  If you have the time, would you kindly quote it again for me?  I seem to need to re-read it myself, too!

Such horrific words uttered by that heartless oncologist (aka bully) to two people under such strain already.  This form of speech and actions  has a tendency to stick in the minds of those who are tender-hearted-- because it is so shockingly contrary to compassion and fellow feeling.

One oncologist telephoned me and my husband--literally screaming on the phone--when I cancelled my first chemo appointment with him--and he was given  sufficient notice.   He told me I was going to die, etc.  I just calmly let him rant and rave--it was the day after my port had been placed--I was not well at all from the anesthesia.  He had expected me to come in for the chemo that same week--impossible for me. -I was so dizzy and nauseous--could barely function.  Never went back to him again, needless to say.  That would not have been a healing environment or healthy patient/doctor relationship, needless to say.

So many other times encountered arrogance in this cancer journey--my father was a doctor--he never would have treated anyone in that fashion.  Would get up in the middle of the night to help patients if they called and needed help.  He practiced in the 40's-60's--different era?  So it is shocking to me to have been mistreated various times--and to know that others have suffered such, too. Unconscionable for those who profess to be healers-- they apparently have no idea about the mind/body connection at all.

Thank you for the kindness you always demonstrate on this thread--it is much appreciated and valued by others.  Please know that we all support you and truly do care.
Heavens, Jetsparkle. That is just so awful on a number of levels.Why  do these people get into the healing arts (or sciences) in the first place. I look at our horrible oncologist who is away vacationing for a month. His office would not return my rather desperate calls before he left. Yet Daniel, vacationing with his wife, finds the time and the HEART to answer questions.

Big hugs to you, my friend. Here's the saying: You cannot prevent the birds of sorrow from flying over your head, but you can prevent them from building nests in your hair.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:00 PM
Quote | ReplyAnd warmest hugs right back!   Thank you for quoting that Chinese saying, too--have to keep reminding myself not to allow any nest-building in my hair!

It is truly a matter of the heart, isn't it?  These cruel people have heart problems of which they are unaware--spiritually deficient.

Whereas others bring joy to the heart because of their unselfish, compassionate actions--those are the ones with whom we want to associate.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:18 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you very much Dr. Strum for honest answer.

It implies, that billions of dollars of American taxpayers are spent not for the real war with cancer, but to make rich greedy and egoistic people, whose job is to fight cancer and help cancer patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:21 PM
Quote | ReplyI wonder whether sometines the extraordinarily abusive behavior that can be encountered in the medical system is meant as a signal. The medical workers really can't just go out and say that the treatments offered will likely have no benefical effect. So, instead of saying this, they behave in a manner completely unrelated to basic decency.

Perhaps those who behave abusively just care too much. People who did not care at all would simply not even bother.

Reverse psychology?
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:34 PM
Quote | ReplyIt must be frustrating to use the same therapies over and over again and see them fail over and over again. Many oncs have been in profession for decades and see that over such a long time no progress was made. Well, melanoma has seen some significant advances since 2011 - but if you have liver or pancreatic cancer, it makes litle difference whether you're treated in 2015 AD or 1900 AD.

Creating effective anti cancer therapies is doubly hard because not only you have to create something that works on cancer cells but not on healthy ones  but the therapy must also be patentable. As a consequence we have drugs that work on 10% of patients and extend life by 1 month.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:47 PM
Quote | ReplyThere is always that terminal stage IV liver cancer patient treated in Germany in 2009.

And there is always that stage IV pancreatic cancer treated recently in Arizona.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:53 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 3:17 PM millicentcarter wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
I am unable to post this in the Success Stories for whatever reason, so I posted here. I was diagnosed with prostate cancer on October 18, 2013. I was advised by my doctor that my only options were to have radiation seeds implanted in my prostate or receive regular external beam radiation. I declined. I knew there had to be other options.
I scoured the Internet and discovered a wealth of information about cannabis oil curing cancer. I was able to obtain some medical marijuana Dr. Ilamosi Williams (Cannabis Oil Cure) from it and consumed the recommended dosage by mid January.
On January 26th I had a cancer reassessment which consisted of an MRI with a state of the art Tesla 3 MRI machine. Results - NO SIGN OF CANCER! CANCER FREE!
One of the things that helped me while going through all this was reading the testimonials and the success stories of those who have used the oil and were cured And with good food diet. Now that this wonderful oil has cured me, I feel I need to let others know as well. Please feel free to contact me, ask anything should you like more information or directly contact Dr. Ilamosi Williams at: cannabis\_oil\_cure@outlook.com were i purchased from. Thank you, Millicent Carter ~
To millicentcarter from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

Your story is simply a story until someone obtains ALL of your Medical Records & reviews them, along with having your diagnostic biopsy slides reviewed by an expert pathologist in PC (prostate cancer).  Then, there is a need to know all of what you did that relates to any form of treatment.  Then, all the studies: physical exam, lab, imaging, etc need to be examined during and after treatment.  I can see some obvious flaws in your claim with the little info we have within the constraints of this forum:

1. Did you have a 3T multi-parametric MRI (mp-MRI) at baseline or only at follow-up?  Small tumor volumes may be found in men who are diagnosed with PC based on PSA but who on imaging with MRI there is insufficient tumor volume to see the cancer i.e.  problem with imaging is RESOLUTION.

2. What parameters were used other than MRI to ascertain that your PC is gone, cured, eradicated? Only MRI.

I will look to see if Llamosi Williams has published anything. I searched PubMed via http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi  for Williams (author) and Cannabis (Title) and got 37 citations, none of which related to cancer.

A search on Cannabis and Cancer revealed articles on use of cannabis to assuage chemo induced nausea or the issue of cancer causation via cannabis use.  There was one article on Cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) showing inhibtion of migration of human breast cancer cells. Another article by the same author (Takeda) showed CBDA also possessed COX-2 inhibition activity. Both of these papers were in cell cultures, not in the human subject.

However, cannabidiol (CBD) has a fair number of citations, all so far in cell cultures, regarding anti-cancer ability.

Bottom line: I will check out website (cannabis oil cure), which sounds like sensationalism, & see what's there and if so indicated I will try to contact Dr. Williams.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mahkcots on Tue Jul 07, 2015 03:58 PM
Quote | ReplyDoes anyone have reliable contact information for Dr. Thomas Vogl in Germany? I hear everyone on this forum continually referencing his work on the liver patient but I have never heard that anyone here has tried to reach ou to him. Has anyone had an experience with him?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:00 PM
Quote | ReplyI was quite surprised when this clinical patient report popped up on pubmed for "cannabis oil cancer". It actually seemed to work.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:02 PM
Quote | ReplyThe authors on the liver cancer patient also included the Hopkins people.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:12 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 7:58 PM mahkcots wrote:

Does anyone have reliable contact information for Dr. Thomas Vogl in Germany? I hear everyone on this forum continually referencing his work on the liver patient but I have never heard that anyone here has tried to reach ou to him. Has anyone had an experience with him?
To mahkcots from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

I have some questions/issues with this forum:

1. I often see posts but do not see who sent them or who answered them.

2. I get tons of notifications of posts in my email with hyperlinks but often these are redundant.  It appears that the newer posts are as you scroll down but sometimes it is the same post.

3. Many of you are asking for emails of physicians/scientists. Find a paper by them and look at the bottom of page 1. There you will find Vogl's, Ko's, Geschwind's or anyone's email address, usually.  I do not like to give out email addresses of such people because I am not sure if they are public knowledge & patients will often abuse physician/scientist privacy.

Many of you could benefit immensely by trying EndNote during 30 day free trial.  You can even create an EndNote Library & share it with other forum members via Dropbox, including PDFs.  If those on this forum truly wish to be problem solvers, or "resolvelutionists" i.e.  those who wish to resolve issues, then show by deed that this is the case.  If many of you need hands on instruction, then I have a WebEx account & can invite you to an internet-based conference & demo how EndNote is used.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:13 PM
Quote | ReplyDr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 04:22 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 8:13 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Dr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
...or would you post that yourself please. It has so much relevance.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 8:00 PM Jcancom wrote:

I was quite surprised when this clinical patient report popped up on pubmed for "cannabis oil cancer". It actually seemed to work.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921
from Stephen B. Strum, MD

If you read the entire paper the child's course of illness lasted 78 days from the time of cannabis initation until death.  After 52 years in cancer medicine (started in 1963), I do not get excited about "significant" advances when the duration of response is 3 months or less. Durability of response is a crucial concept, otherwise the toxicity of treatment outweighs the benefit. This is called TI (therapeutic index) which means **TI (Therapeutic Index)** is the ratio of **Benefits to Patient '***÷ '***Adverse Effects**

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:12 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 8:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:13 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Dr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
...or would you post that yourself please. It has so much relevance.
To moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I am surprised that you have that poem; sure, go ahead & post it.  I should have published my entire 40 or so poems as an eBook but never took the time.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:14 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 9:12 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:13 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Dr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
...or would you post that yourself please. It has so much relevance.
To moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I am surprised that you have that poem; sure, go ahead & post it.  I should have published my entire 40 or so poems as an eBook but never took the time.
MEN OF MEDICINE

Men of Hippocrates, I too am one,
Now ashamed of what has become
A once noble art turned around
Spiraling quickly from heaven to ground.

Gods we were never, yet closer before,
Now much more base, the art from us tore.
Strive for the heights; compete with each other,
Close eyes and ears to those who smother,
Under ills that mankind gave birth,
To strangle our fellows
And douse out their mirth.

It is time we spoke less of things esoteric,
Filled our hearts with compassion empathetic,
Cried in our souls when we feel others suffer,
Smile and laugh when sick is no more,
Know all men are rich when they seem poor.

Stephen B. Strum, MD
Hyde Park, Chicago 1968
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:30 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 9:14 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 9:12 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:13 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Dr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
...or would you post that yourself please. It has so much relevance.
To moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I am surprised that you have that poem; sure, go ahead & post it.  I should have published my entire 40 or so poems as an eBook but never took the time.
MEN OF MEDICINE

Men of Hippocrates, I too am one,
Now ashamed of what has become
A once noble art turned around
Spiraling quickly from heaven to ground.

Gods we were never, yet closer before,
Now much more base, the art from us tore.
Strive for the heights; compete with each other,
Close eyes and ears to those who smother,
Under ills that mankind gave birth,
To strangle our fellows
And douse out their mirth.

It is time we spoke less of things esoteric,
Filled our hearts with compassion empathetic,
Cried in our souls when we feel others suffer,
Smile and laugh when sick is no more,
Know all men are rich when they seem poor.

Stephen B. Strum, MD
Hyde Park, Chicago 1968
To All,

Just for some context.  That poem was written in my 5th year at the U of Chicago, doing research on HD (Hodgkin’s disease) & working with Henry Rappaport, head of the section on hematopathology.  I was fortunate to have some great teachers that included Dr. Rappaport, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Janet Rowley, Francis Straus, and others. But the bickering I saw between heads of departments, and the rivalry between cancer centers was shocking to me. The poem from 1968 is more relevant now than it was 47 years ago!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:47 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 7:53 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:17 PM millicentcarter wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 3:04 PM FelixShmidel wrote:

Dr. Strum,

The Newcastle virus is considered safe for humans.

Therefore, it should be available to any cancer patient to try.

We can't blame the FDA, as it is not difficult to get their permission for compassionate use (recently they have simplified their application for it).

Then why the Newcastle virus is difficult to get?
I am unable to post this in the Success Stories for whatever reason, so I posted here. I was diagnosed with prostate cancer on October 18, 2013. I was advised by my doctor that my only options were to have radiation seeds implanted in my prostate or receive regular external beam radiation. I declined. I knew there had to be other options.
I scoured the Internet and discovered a wealth of information about cannabis oil curing cancer. I was able to obtain some medical marijuana Dr. Ilamosi Williams (Cannabis Oil Cure) from it and consumed the recommended dosage by mid January.
On January 26th I had a cancer reassessment which consisted of an MRI with a state of the art Tesla 3 MRI machine. Results - NO SIGN OF CANCER! CANCER FREE!
One of the things that helped me while going through all this was reading the testimonials and the success stories of those who have used the oil and were cured And with good food diet. Now that this wonderful oil has cured me, I feel I need to let others know as well. Please feel free to contact me, ask anything should you like more information or directly contact Dr. Ilamosi Williams at: cannabis\_oil\_cure@outlook.com were i purchased from. Thank you, Millicent Carter ~
To millicentcarter from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

Your story is simply a story until someone obtains ALL of your Medical Records & reviews them, along with having your diagnostic biopsy slides reviewed by an expert pathologist in PC (prostate cancer).  Then, there is a need to know all of what you did that relates to any form of treatment.  Then, all the studies: physical exam, lab, imaging, etc need to be examined during and after treatment.  I can see some obvious flaws in your claim with the little info we have within the constraints of this forum:

1. Did you have a 3T multi-parametric MRI (mp-MRI) at baseline or only at follow-up?  Small tumor volumes may be found in men who are diagnosed with PC based on PSA but who on imaging with MRI there is insufficient tumor volume to see the cancer i.e.  problem with imaging is RESOLUTION.

2. What parameters were used other than MRI to ascertain that your PC is gone, cured, eradicated? Only MRI.

I will look to see if Llamosi Williams has published anything. I searched PubMed via http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi  for Williams (author) and Cannabis (Title) and got 37 citations, none of which related to cancer.

A search on Cannabis and Cancer revealed articles on use of cannabis to assuage chemo induced nausea or the issue of cancer causation via cannabis use.  There was one article on Cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) showing inhibtion of migration of human breast cancer cells. Another article by the same author (Takeda) showed CBDA also possessed COX-2 inhibition activity. Both of these papers were in cell cultures, not in the human subject.

However, cannabidiol (CBD) has a fair number of citations, all so far in cell cultures, regarding anti-cancer ability.

Bottom line: I will check out website (cannabis oil cure), which sounds like sensationalism, & see what's there and if so indicated I will try to contact Dr. Williams.
My husband has been using a gram a day for 14 months of the high CBD oil. His uses it as a suppository. So far we haven't seen any positive results - reduced PSA or ALP (which was over 1000 last time we checked). We do have two cannabinoid receptors in the brain cells but this means very little in terms of cure. There are, I understand, some papers on human subjects and some impressive results. Here is a list of studies that I have NOT checked (time, time...) http://themindunleashed.org/2013/12/34-medical-studies-provi
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 05:59 PM
Quote | ReplyWhat I found so surprising was that there was any evidence whatsoever that could add support to the cannabis oil story. It is admittedly quite thin. There were almost no results for the pubmed search, though the patient report popped up.

Obviously I thought this was simply a way to push for legalizing cannabis. I was surprised that in even one patient that it could work so well. One of the limiting factors noted in the article is that the parents of the patient had to supply the hospital with the cannabis oil which varied from lot to lot. It would have been helpful if a medically standardized formulation of this cannabis oil could be available to these patients.

It was from Sick Kids: a global leader in pediatric medicine.

The patient had no conventional options and was in palliative care home care when treatment began. The cancer was considered to be an aggressive form of ALL that could not be treated with available medicines. The patient had a truly massive response. It appear almost a curative response. TLS was a problem. The side effects of cannabis were considered non-toxic.

It should be noted that the patient did not actually die of cancer, instead a bowel perforation was noted as the ultimate problem. The article further noted that this might have been a result of the patient's previous chemotherapy and radiation.

"On day 78, the patient had stomach pain in the morning and was admitted to hospital. Upon X-ray, it was noted that gastrointestinal bleeding had occurred. The patient was under a DNR order and ultimately passed away due to the bowel perforation. A prior history of pancolitis documented by CT scan in March 2009 pointed to neutropenic colitis with perforation as the cause of death. Furthermore, prior to starting on the hemp oil treatment, the patient had been extremely ill, severely underweight and had endured numerous sessions of chemotherapy and radiation therapy in the course of 34 months.

As reported by Hematology/Oncology at SickKids: ‘At admission her total WBC was 1.4, hemoglobin was 82, platelet count 8,000. She was profoundly neutropenic… a prior history of pancolitis documented by CT scan in March 2009 was neutropenic colitis with perforation… her abdomen was distended and obviously had some signs of diffuse peritonitis. The abdomen X-ray was in favour a perforation…she passed away at 10:05 in the present (sic) of family…’. "

Considering the response this patient had, the minimal side effects and the possible toxicity caused by the standard of care chemotherapy and radiation, a clinical trial investigating cannabis oil in this aggressive form of ALL seems reasonable. Too many of these proof of concept patient reports seem to become lost in the medical literature. In many ways this patient report seems similar to the liver cancer patient report: Both patients with terminal stage cancer did not actually die from cancer.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 07, 2015 06:35 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 9:30 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 9:14 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 9:12 PM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 8:13 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

Dr Strum...do I have your permission to post your poem from 1968 Men of Medicine?
...or would you post that yourself please. It has so much relevance.
To moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I am surprised that you have that poem; sure, go ahead & post it.  I should have published my entire 40 or so poems as an eBook but never took the time.
MEN OF MEDICINE

Men of Hippocrates, I too am one,
Now ashamed of what has become
A once noble art turned around
Spiraling quickly from heaven to ground.

Gods we were never, yet closer before,
Now much more base, the art from us tore.
Strive for the heights; compete with each other,
Close eyes and ears to those who smother,
Under ills that mankind gave birth,
To strangle our fellows
And douse out their mirth.

It is time we spoke less of things esoteric,
Filled our hearts with compassion empathetic,
Cried in our souls when we feel others suffer,
Smile and laugh when sick is no more,
Know all men are rich when they seem poor.

Stephen B. Strum, MD
Hyde Park, Chicago 1968
To All,

Just for some context.  That poem was written in my 5th year at the U of Chicago, doing research on HD (Hodgkin’s disease) & working with Henry Rappaport, head of the section on hematopathology.  I was fortunate to have some great teachers that included Dr. Rappaport, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Janet Rowley, Francis Straus, and others. But the bickering I saw between heads of departments, and the rivalry between cancer centers was shocking to me. The poem from 1968 is more relevant now than it was 47 years ago!
That poem sprung from a troubled heart at what you were observing and hearing--and, in a positive aspect, that is indicative of your own sense of justice and fairness.

Accurate. unmincing words to define bickering and rivalry--characteristics that have no place whatsoever  in healing--more like a political arena where power is sought after instead of solving life- and -death problems.

We appreciate the heart behind this poem that to this day is disturbed with injustice.  When we become complacent, then we become like the ones manifesting selfish, thoughtless behavior.

Reminds one of when an eager person seeks to become an attorney--then sees what is behind the scenes.  So disheartening for people with good intent who initially want to uphold justice--and see the games played instead.

Nevertheless, there are still some out there who care--and we appreciate their constancy and love of truth. This poem is a reflection of  your own sense of justice--which, in this case, is quite admirable.

What I tell myself is never to become hardened and callous because of mistreatment--otherwise there could be the possibility that I would become more like those whom I do not admire--instead of remaining true to my own ideals.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 06:41 PM
Quote | ReplyWanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 07, 2015 06:42 PM
Quote | Reply"That poem sprung from a troubled heart at what you were observing and hearing--and, in a positive aspect, that is indicative of your own sense of justice and fairness.

Accurate. unmincing words to define bickering and rivalry--characteristics that have no place whatsoever  in healing--more like a political arena where power is sought after instead of solving life- and -death problems.

We appreciate the heart behind this poem that to this day is disturbed with injustice.  When we become complacent, then we become like the ones manifesting selfish, thoughtless behavior.

Reminds one of when an eager person seeks to become an attorney--then sees what is behind the scenes.  So disheartening for people with good intent who initially want to uphold justice--and see the games played instead.

Nevertheless, there are still some out there who care--and we appreciate their constancy and love of truth. This poem is a reflection of  your own sense of justice--which, in this case, is quite admirable.

What I tell myself is never to become hardened and callous because of mistreatment--otherwise there could be the possibility that I would become more like those whom I do not admire--instead of remaining true to my own ideals."

Jet, that last paragraph of yours hit at my heart. I have vowed always to become kinder in the face of cruelty - at least to others, and never let its evil permeate me. Like the birds, it flies overhead (hopefully to collide with a wall...)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 07, 2015 06:50 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 07, 2015 10:42 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

"That poem sprung from a troubled heart at what you were observing and hearing--and, in a positive aspect, that is indicative of your own sense of justice and fairness.

Accurate. unmincing words to define bickering and rivalry--characteristics that have no place whatsoever  in healing--more like a political arena where power is sought after instead of solving life- and -death problems.

We appreciate the heart behind this poem that to this day is disturbed with injustice.  When we become complacent, then we become like the ones manifesting selfish, thoughtless behavior.

Reminds one of when an eager person seeks to become an attorney--then sees what is behind the scenes.  So disheartening for people with good intent who initially want to uphold justice--and see the games played instead.

Nevertheless, there are still some out there who care--and we appreciate their constancy and love of truth. This poem is a reflection of  your own sense of justice--which, in this case, is quite admirable.

What I tell myself is never to become hardened and callous because of mistreatment--otherwise there could be the possibility that I would become more like those whom I do not admire--instead of remaining true to my own ideals."

Jet, that last paragraph of yours hit at my heart. I have vowed always to become kinder in the face of cruelty - at least to others, and never let its evil permeate me. Like the birds, it flies overhead (hopefully to collide with a wall...)
Bad actors--so to speak--hurt the tender-hearted ones deeply.  When this happens over and over, there is the possibility that one can become hardened--defense mechanism. We do not want to become like them!

Let's hear the birds of worry and sorrow collide with  that brick wall!

One cartoon I saw years ago stuck with me.  Stick figures of two people--one of whom must have been berating the other--not actual words to read--just the sense of letters falling on the sidewalk. The person on the receiving end just kept quiet.

What did he do  when the irate person finally stopped speaking?  He got a broom, swept up the words,  put them in a nearby garbage can, and placed the lid on top--good to visualize when one is being unfairly spoken to!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 07, 2015 07:17 PM

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On Jul 07, 2015 6:40 PM mahkcots wrote:

I have not recieved anything back from either of them. I was hoping for some information and answers to several questions. I was also hoping that Geschwind could provide some treatment options. Do you know his contact information?
Please remind me with a PM and i will send the contact details.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:14 PM

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On Jul 07, 2015 8:00 PM Jcancom wrote:

I was quite surprised when this clinical patient report popped up on pubmed for "cannabis oil cancer". It actually seemed to work.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474921
The pro-pot side seems to make claims about various medical benefits that appear to be only tenuously supported by real scientific evidence, in fact, some of the claims are downright dangerous. So for me Rick Simpson and others are up there with the likes of Stanislaw Burzynski

It is claimed that there was a strong correlation between increasing dose of the cannabis oil and decreases in the blast count, but looking at Figures 1, 2, 3, and 4, I have a hard time seeing it?. The authors assert that a dose-response curve was achieved, but I really don't see it, except perhaps at the beginning. It seems burnout of the bone marrow in the terminal phase of the disease was most likely responsible for the decline in blasts. Basically, she lived two and a half months after being placed on hospice, and many claim based on this, its proof cannabis oil works. The only other *proof* out there is this study from Spain http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v95/n2/full/6603236a.html  and no one generally bothers with intratumoral infusion of a drug unless it requires a very high concentration to work. Mean survival was 24 weeks, and two patients survived approximately a year.

Oral bioavailability of THC is from 4-20%, so low http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/  and with CBD its low as well http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/1/66.full  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717338/  http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/

Activating CB2 receptors may actually interfere with the ability of the immune system to recognise and destroy tumour cells http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15749859 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15749859  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10861074  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15749859 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15749859  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9858061

Cancer cells can develop resistance to cannabinoids and start growing again http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131933/

Cannabinoids can actually encourage cancer cells to grow http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15026328
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:17 PM
Quote | ReplyI imagine myself being in a lab with access to any chemical I wanted and the enormous information resources of the internet and computer expert systems. If I were assigned a terminally ill cancer patient, could I cure them? I have no formal training in this, is it possible?

From what I have read over all these years, I think it would be. Nanocells, X-Ray photodynamic therapy, genetically modified T-Cells, 3-BP ... These medicines might not be formally available for decades. What if we could use the best research of today to help these desperate patients?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:59 PM
Quote | ReplyI thought the cannabis oil posters on this forum and elsewhere were just making a cruel joke. I thought the whole idea was completely ridiculous. I am not as sure after reading the patient report whether it is totally without merit.

However, there are substantial flaws in the report. It was very frustrating that they used 5 different formulations of cannabis oil! Why was that necessary? It is difficult to develop a scientific opinion on cannabis oil when they are using so many different formulations. Couldn't they develop a standardized product ?

I am not sure why they stayed with hemp oil #4 for so long when it did not appear to ever be effective. When you remove oil #3 & #4, you seem to have something of a dose response.

The claim that a tumor lysis syndrome reponse occured is of interest. This thread is particularly interested in TLS as 3-BP appears to have induced this response in some of the treated patients. If TLS could be proven beyond doubt in the cannabis oil patient it would add weight to the report.

As it is the report seems quite murky. More research would obviously be helpful. Considering the outlook for patients similar to the one reported, such research would appear reasonable.

The cannabis oil report is a little too far out there for my liking. Fortunately, the research noted on this thread concerning 3-BP is much further advanced.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:19 AM

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On Jul 08, 2015 3:59 AM Jcancom wrote:

I thought the cannabis oil posters on this forum and elsewhere were just making a cruel joke. I thought the whole idea was completely ridiculous. I am not as sure after reading the patient report whether it is totally without merit.

However, there are substantial flaws in the report. It was very frustrating that they used 5 different formulations of cannabis oil! Why was that necessary? It is difficult to develop a scientific opinion on cannabis oil when they are using so many different formulations. Couldn't they develop a standardized product ?

I am not sure why they stayed with hemp oil #4 for so long when it did not appear to ever be effective. When you remove oil #3 & #4, you seem to have something of a dose response.

The claim that a tumor lysis syndrome reponse occured is of interest. This thread is particularly interested in TLS as 3-BP appears to have induced this response in some of the treated patients. If TLS could be proven beyond doubt in the cannabis oil patient it would add weight to the report.

As it is the report seems quite murky. More research would obviously be helpful. Considering the outlook for patients similar to the one reported, such research would appear reasonable.

The cannabis oil report is a little too far out there for my liking. Fortunately, the research noted on this thread concerning 3-BP is much further advanced.
It wasn't established how the diagnosis of tumor lysis syndrome was made. Also oral bioavailability of THC is around 10% and CBD is around 6%, so cannabis oil won't do a thing. It seems Rick Simpson gave them the first strain, but they couldn't keep using it and had to get others. I would say it is a cruel joke especially when you see the groups and pages on social media claiming it cures all https://www.facebook.com/ricksimpsonofficial/photos/a.407085
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:37 AM
Quote | Reply"There were elevated levels of urate present in the blood with corresponding joint pain; it was established that this was caused by tumor lysis syndrome of the blast cells. Allopurinol was administered." Elevated urate levels and treating with allopurinol is consistent with TLS. Leukemia is known to be a high risk cancer for TLS.

"when she had ‘a recent massive decrease of WBC from 350,000 to 0.3’ inducing tumor lysis syndrome, as reported by the primary hematologist/oncologist at the SickKids Hospital."

If they could have shown a clear survival advantage this would be easier to accept. With the liver cancer patient treated with 3-BP a clear survival advantage was found.

I am just very wary of claims being made on behalf of cannabis as a cure for cancer in the current legalization environment. More substantial evidence would need to be presented. My search of pubmed was very thin on evidence for cannabis oil and cancer. This patient report was the only article that turned up.

With 3-BP as a possible cancer treatment, I have had to be somewhat flexible in terms of adhering to rigid application of the principles of scientific method. Even still I find the evidence in favor of 3-BP to be at least credible.

With cannabis oil as a possible cancer treatment, I would need to almost entirely ignore basic adherence to the scientific method. Cannabis oil does not inspire a similar level of confidence as would 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:49 AM

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On Jul 07, 2015 9:59 PM Jcancom wrote:

What I found so surprising was that there was any evidence whatsoever that could add support to the cannabis oil story. It is admittedly quite thin. There were almost no results for the pubmed search, though the patient report popped up.

Obviously I thought this was simply a way to push for legalizing cannabis. I was surprised that in even one patient that it could work so well. One of the limiting factors noted in the article is that the parents of the patient had to supply the hospital with the cannabis oil which varied from lot to lot. It would have been helpful if a medically standardized formulation of this cannabis oil could be available to these patients.

It was from Sick Kids: a global leader in pediatric medicine.

The patient had no conventional options and was in palliative care home care when treatment began. The cancer was considered to be an aggressive form of ALL that could not be treated with available medicines. The patient had a truly massive response. It appear almost a curative response. TLS was a problem. The side effects of cannabis were considered non-toxic.

It should be noted that the patient did not actually die of cancer, instead a bowel perforation was noted as the ultimate problem. The article further noted that this might have been a result of the patient's previous chemotherapy and radiation.

"On day 78, the patient had stomach pain in the morning and was admitted to hospital. Upon X-ray, it was noted that gastrointestinal bleeding had occurred. The patient was under a DNR order and ultimately passed away due to the bowel perforation. A prior history of pancolitis documented by CT scan in March 2009 pointed to neutropenic colitis with perforation as the cause of death. Furthermore, prior to starting on the hemp oil treatment, the patient had been extremely ill, severely underweight and had endured numerous sessions of chemotherapy and radiation therapy in the course of 34 months.

As reported by Hematology/Oncology at SickKids: ‘At admission her total WBC was 1.4, hemoglobin was 82, platelet count 8,000. She was profoundly neutropenic… a prior history of pancolitis documented by CT scan in March 2009 was neutropenic colitis with perforation… her abdomen was distended and obviously had some signs of diffuse peritonitis. The abdomen X-ray was in favour a perforation…she passed away at 10:05 in the present (sic) of family…’. "

Considering the response this patient had, the minimal side effects and the possible toxicity caused by the standard of care chemotherapy and radiation, a clinical trial investigating cannabis oil in this aggressive form of ALL seems reasonable. Too many of these proof of concept patient reports seem to become lost in the medical literature. In many ways this patient report seems similar to the liver cancer patient report: Both patients with terminal stage cancer did not actually die from cancer.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Sorry to disagree violently with your enthusiasm about this being a massive response.  I do not for a moment consider a 78 period of start of treatment to death as anything of significance. The patient's 2+ months of Rx were riddled with episodes of nausea, vomiting, anxiety.  I cannot see anything that remotely comes close to a partial remission or even a 25% response.  This child's course of illness would not leave me with enthusiasm to justify a major clinical trial.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:50 AM

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On Jul 08, 2015 4:37 AM Jcancom wrote:

"There were elevated levels of urate present in the blood with corresponding joint pain; it was established that this was caused by tumor lysis syndrome of the blast cells. Allopurinol was administered." Elevated urate levels and treating with allopurinol is consistent with TLS. Leukemia is known to be a high risk cancer for TLS.

"when she had ‘a recent massive decrease of WBC from 350,000 to 0.3’ inducing tumor lysis syndrome, as reported by the primary hematologist/oncologist at the SickKids Hospital."

If they could have shown a clear survival advantage this would be easier to accept. With the liver cancer patient treated with 3-BP a clear survival advantage was found.

I am just very wary of claims being made on behalf of cannabis as a cure for cancer in the current legalization environment. More substantial evidence would need to be presented. My search of pubmed was very thin on evidence for cannabis oil and cancer. This patient report was the only article that turned up.

With 3-BP as a possible cancer treatment, I have had to be somewhat flexible in terms of adhering to rigid application of the principles of scientific method. Even still I find the evidence in favor of 3-BP to be at least credible.

With cannabis oil as a possible cancer treatment, I would need to almost entirely ignore basic adherence to the scientific method. Cannabis oil does not inspire a similar level of confidence as would 3-BP.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3763649/  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/  You can't change the pharmacokinetics. Also spontaneous remission is known to occur in ALL http://media.noetic.org/uploads/files/chapter10.pdf  as can spontaneous tumor lysis syndrome http://www.omjournal.org/fultext\_PDF.aspx?DetailsID=463&  Elevated urate levels don't prove it, as many things can cause it, like kidney problems. With 3BP then you can prove it, I've seen both case reports. There is lots of evidence on Pubmed that cannabinoids may cause cancer growth and spread and that cancer cells can become resistant to it. Very few clinical trials are underway, two are ongoing in GBM and thats about it. GW Pharma are running them using the oral spray to get over the very poor oral bioavailability
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 01:00 AM

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On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 01:17 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
Pardon me for asking this--no doubt has been explained by you previously.  But what method did you use for the DCA--i.v., oral, etc.?  Cannot recall what you had stated earlier.

My one concern about DCA usage is the fact that besides Stage 4 breast cancer, I also have Chronic Borreliosis--late stage.  Very concerned about potential neuropathies--I know that B1 and ALA can help ameliorate them--but feel that Lyme patients can perhaps be more prone to such.  And I also am what is termed a hypersensitive patient--can react adversely to many drugs. Even anesthesia causes me much distress--more than the usual patient.  Probably because of the long-standing Lyme infection--immune system fragile.

Somehow what I have gleaned to date about 3-BP is that neuropathies are not common to this treatment.  I know there is much more to learn about it--would welcome any input from you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Wed Jul 08, 2015 02:07 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/pdf/cjc-  and http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/794/art%253A10.1007%252Fs10863-012-9417-4.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.1007%2Fs10863-012-9417-4&token2=exp=1436336728~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F794%2Fart%25253A10.1007%25252Fs10863-012-9417-4.pdf%3ForiginUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flink.springer.com%252Farticle%252F10.1007%252Fs10863-012-9417-4\*~hmac=a1dda9da1f22c5e7935e6b0a9f92829e95a678fb3a1f6a76573faf168ec5cf76
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Wed Jul 08, 2015 02:09 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 6:07 AM dumbcritic wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/pdf/cjc- 33-07-356.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/pdf/cjc-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/pdf/cjc-  and http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/794/art%253A10.1007%252Fs10863-012-9417-4.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.1007%2Fs10863-012-9417-4&token2=exp=1436336728~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F794%2Fart%25253A10.1007%25252Fs10863-012-9417-4.pdf%3ForiginUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flink.springer.com%252Farticle%252F10.1007%252Fs10863-012-9417-4\*~hmac=a1dda9da1f22c5e7935e6b0a9f92829e95a678fb3a1f6a76573faf168ec5cf76
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10863-012-9417-4  Sadly the last link didn't work
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jul 08, 2015 07:03 AM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum

Isn't DCA neurotoxic? I heard that from one of DCA sceptics. AFAIK some trials were done in glioblastoma and side effects were mild. Does DCA even cross the BBB?

Also, how in your opinion can the current system of cancer reseach and drug development be improved? The goal is obvious - to have more cancer therapies approved faster and at a lower cost.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 07:53 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 5:17 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
Pardon me for asking this--no doubt has been explained by you previously.  But what method did you use for the DCA--i.v., oral, etc.?  Cannot recall what you had stated earlier.

My one concern about DCA usage is the fact that besides Stage 4 breast cancer, I also have Chronic Borreliosis--late stage.  Very concerned about potential neuropathies--I know that B1 and ALA can help ameliorate them--but feel that Lyme patients can perhaps be more prone to such.  And I also am what is termed a hypersensitive patient--can react adversely to many drugs. Even anesthesia causes me much distress--more than the usual patient.  Probably because of the long-standing Lyme infection--immune system fragile.

Somehow what I have gleaned to date about 3-BP is that neuropathies are not common to this treatment.  I know there is much more to learn about it--would welcome any input from you.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I did provide a link to the full PDF via Dropbox. Here it is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA

This is a Public link so anyone should be able to access it.

The publication came about after I inquired if any individual had a major response to DCA. It was a forum called TheDCAsite. About 6 patients replied & I asked that the full medical records be received & reviewed by me to confirm that indeed there was a legitimate DCA response. Of those approx 6 or so patients, there were 2 that stood out. One was the man who was the subject of our case report. The other gent had a cholangiocarcinoma but upon review of his complete medical record we saw that RT (radiation therapy) was started the same day as the DCA.

DCA dosing was therefore determined by the patient.  In TM's case it was oral at 10 mg/kg in 2 divided doses i.e.  5 mg/kg twice a day. TM has been on DCA, 5 days on, 2 days off for a year or so. Then he has ↓ his dosing to 2 days a week.  It has been a year since we have gone over the details of his management. The publication gives far more details and my memory might be off on some of the above. He has had no neuropathy and other patients since TM on that dosing schedule have had minor issues with peripheral neuropathy.  In your case, a bigger issue for me would be the BC (breast cancer) and not the potential for low grade neuropathy, which is reversible.  I, too, am a slow metabolizer of many drugs, including the "caine" anesthetics.

I believe that given the key issue of glucose utilization by the tumor cell population, is whether or not abnormal FDG PET/CT is a key marker that screens out likely responders vs non-responders to either DCA or 3BP.  If I were at a center where studies were being done on these small molecules, that would be one of the first things I would ascertain.

A real issue for me with any cancer patient is whether or not their treatment to date has been optimized. Have you had an outstanding medical oncologist involved in your care?  Where do you live, and who has been the MedOnc.  Re the Lyme disease, are you aware of some provocative literature, such as that re use of Claritin? Have you read this paper:

Wagh D, Pothineni VR, Inayathullah M, et al: Borreliacidal activity of Borrelia metal transporter A (BmtA) binding small molecules by manganese transport inhibition. Drug Des Devel Ther 9:805-16, 2015.

If you download the free trial of EndNote at www.endnote.com  then I can send you an extensive and in-depth review of published articles on Lyme disease I have done & which took me many weeks.  I have also put the file in the public folder of my Dropbox just now; it is 43 MB--too large for email. If you download EndNote I will tell you a simply way to handle this file so that it opens with all of my PDFs, all the citations, and grouping of the findings into special categories. This is sharing at its very best. The Dropbox link is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:05 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 11:03 AM Freyr wrote:

Dr. Strum

Isn't DCA neurotoxic? I heard that from one of DCA sceptics. AFAIK some trials were done in glioblastoma and side effects were mild. Does DCA even cross the BBB?

Also, how in your opinion can the current system of cancer reseach and drug development be improved? The goal is obvious - to have more cancer therapies approved faster and at a lower cost.
To: Freyr, From: Stephen B. Strum, MD:

DCA's major toxicity is peripheral neuropathy (PN) & not CNS (Central Nervous System) toxicity. The toxicity is also dose and schedule dependent. The glioblastoma multiforme (GBM) studies used 25 mg/kg versus the case report we published where the patient used 10 mg/kg & took the DCA 5 days on and 2 days off. Although it took me many months of hard work to create a formal protocol on DCA in solid tumors, I share it with you via this link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/%20DCA%20Protoco

As to your last question, I could answer this properly in a 2-3 day conference, but a good start would be found in your reading the first few sections of “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival” which should have been given the title "Essential Concepts in Surviving Cancer" with some minor changes in the concepts:

Concept 1: EXCEPTIONAL CANCER PATIENTS (ECaP)

Concept 2: CONCEPT

Concept 3: THE MEDICAL RECORD

Concept 4: STATUS

Concept 5: BIOLOGICAL ENDPOINTS (BEPs)

Concept 6: The ANDROGEN RECEPTOR (AR)

Concept 7: BONE INTEGRITY

Concept 8: SAIN (Systems Analysis & Integrity Networking)

For example, I would remove Concept 6 & would replace it with a different concept(s) e.g. GEP (gene expression profiling), chemosensitivity testing, Expert pathology review, Novel treatment development, Synergy, etc.

We, in the medical establishment, FAIL miserbly to see the whole picture. Perspectives are myopic and often leave the prime directive out of the picture → Help the Patient.

When I do good, I feel good,

When I do bad, I feel bad.

That is my religion.

Abe Lincoln
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:52 AM
Quote | ReplyMy friend got Zometa poisoning. It does not allow old bone to recycle and makes bones brittle. My other friend had her kidneys destroyed that way. Mayodyne pads were invented by NASA as they lose bone mass in space and ARE FDA approved.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 AM

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On Jul 08, 2015 12:52 PM Genelle wrote:

My friend got Zometa poisoning. It does not allow old bone to recycle and makes bones brittle. My other friend had her kidneys destroyed that way. Mayodyne pads were invented by NASA as they lose bone mass in space and ARE FDA approved.
To Genelle, From Stephen B. Strum, MD

I have used drugs in the Zometa class called bisphosphonate for over 20 years.  There is an ART to using medications and supplements and often both patients & physicians just don't pay attention to details.

Read “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival” and focus on bone integrity concept. http://tinyurl.com/blot2zm  is the Amazon link.  The ebook costs all of $10.  I have spent at least 5 hours pro bono on this forum & my usual consultation fee is $400 per hour.  So the $10 is no big deal.

When any aminobisphosphonate (ABP) is given for the first time the MD must give it in an attenuated (lower) dose to avoid and APR (acute phase response) which can result in renal damage. I have seen other MDs create this problem.

Again, TI (therapeutic index) is part of the Holy Grail in medicine (or should be).  **TI (Therapeutic Index)** is the ratio of **Benefits to Patient '***÷ '***Adverse Effects.**

And when any drug is used to stop part of the bone remodeling process e.g. bisphosphonate or RANK ligand inhibitor like denosumab (Xgeva®) the BEPs (Biological End Points) of anti-resorptive therapy must be monitored. These are simple labs called  DpD (deoxypyridinoline) on urine and CTX (C-Terminal Telopeptide, b-Crosslaps) on blood.  Baseline DpD and CTx are obtained & monitored during any treatment using bisphosphonate or denosumab. If the CTx drops below 150, then I hold the medication until it rises to a level that is of concern regarding excessive bone resorption.  And also when any patient is on either agent, a comprehensive bone supplement (CBS) should be used to prevent hypocalcemia (low blood calcium) as well as to foster healthy bone formation. Resistive exercise is also important as is pre- treatment dental clearance.

Thus, the ART of medicine is really lacking but that is not the fault of the treatment but of the ignorant physician or healthcare practitioner (HCP).  I use the term HCP because far too many cancer patients are being treated by HCPs who have lacked formal training in key areas in medicine.  That is not to say that those with an MD in today's world are often more focused on the greed factor than the good factor.

"One of the essential qualities of the clinician is interest in humanity, for the secret of the care of the patient is in caring for the patient." -Sir Francis Weld Peabody to Harvard medical students in 1917
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:31 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 11:53 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:17 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
Pardon me for asking this--no doubt has been explained by you previously.  But what method did you use for the DCA--i.v., oral, etc.?  Cannot recall what you had stated earlier.

My one concern about DCA usage is the fact that besides Stage 4 breast cancer, I also have Chronic Borreliosis--late stage.  Very concerned about potential neuropathies--I know that B1 and ALA can help ameliorate them--but feel that Lyme patients can perhaps be more prone to such.  And I also am what is termed a hypersensitive patient--can react adversely to many drugs. Even anesthesia causes me much distress--more than the usual patient.  Probably because of the long-standing Lyme infection--immune system fragile.

Somehow what I have gleaned to date about 3-BP is that neuropathies are not common to this treatment.  I know there is much more to learn about it--would welcome any input from you.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I did provide a link to the full PDF via Dropbox. Here it is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA %20NHL%20CR.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA

This is a Public link so anyone should be able to access it.

The publication came about after I inquired if any individual had a major response to DCA. It was a forum called TheDCAsite. About 6 patients replied & I asked that the full medical records be received & reviewed by me to confirm that indeed there was a legitimate DCA response. Of those approx 6 or so patients, there were 2 that stood out. One was the man who was the subject of our case report. The other gent had a cholangiocarcinoma but upon review of his complete medical record we saw that RT (radiation therapy) was started the same day as the DCA.

DCA dosing was therefore determined by the patient.  In TM's case it was oral at 10 mg/kg in 2 divided doses i.e.  5 mg/kg twice a day. TM has been on DCA, 5 days on, 2 days off for a year or so. Then he has ↓ his dosing to 2 days a week.  It has been a year since we have gone over the details of his management. The publication gives far more details and my memory might be off on some of the above. He has had no neuropathy and other patients since TM on that dosing schedule have had minor issues with peripheral neuropathy.  In your case, a bigger issue for me would be the BC (breast cancer) and not the potential for low grade neuropathy, which is reversible.  I, too, am a slow metabolizer of many drugs, including the "caine" anesthetics.

I believe that given the key issue of glucose utilization by the tumor cell population, is whether or not abnormal FDG PET/CT is a key marker that screens out likely responders vs non-responders to either DCA or 3BP.  If I were at a center where studies were being done on these small molecules, that would be one of the first things I would ascertain.

A real issue for me with any cancer patient is whether or not their treatment to date has been optimized. Have you had an outstanding medical oncologist involved in your care?  Where do you live, and who has been the MedOnc.  Re the Lyme disease, are you aware of some provocative literature, such as that re use of Claritin? Have you read this paper:

Wagh D, Pothineni VR, Inayathullah M, et al: Borreliacidal activity of Borrelia metal transporter A (BmtA) binding small molecules by manganese transport inhibition. Drug Des Devel Ther 9:805-16, 2015.

If you download the free trial of EndNote at www.endnote.com "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  then I can send you an extensive and in-depth review of published articles on Lyme disease I have done & which took me many weeks.  I have also put the file in the public folder of my Dropbox just now; it is 43 MB--too large for email. If you download EndNote I will tell you a simply way to handle this file so that it opens with all of my PDFs, all the citations, and grouping of the findings into special categories. This is sharing at its very best. The Dropbox link is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE ASE.enlx"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE

You have been more than kind with your thorough reply to my questions--very much appreciated. And thank you for the links--will download them.

I have had at least 3FDG PET/CT scans over the past few years--all show glucose uptake. So I feel that DCA or 3BP may be quite appropriate in my case. I am very careful with my diet--no sugar at all, etc.  And, I would say, modified ketogenic diet.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find an outstanding oncologist--so my treatment, sad to say, has not been optimized--and it certainly needs to be.   Instead have met some who are quite opposed to any type of supplements ("food is all one needs"), holistic support, and have thrown temper tantrums (see my other posts regarding them).

Neither one would have ever agreed to use DCA--they were very, very rigid in their mind sets, i.e. the usage of bisphosphanates without considering the former details you listed in another post--and the fact that my TMJ specialist was adamant against their use.  In fact, when I calmly related these dental problems, concerns, and history,  there was no reply except--"one injection a month for 12 months"--end of subject. Case closed for her.  Nowhere for me to go on that one...except never to return.

I am usually quite an easy person to get along with--am not antagonistic--so their attitudes were quite obstructionist instead of helpful.  I am one who tries to learn the best I can with whatever I must deal with--I want to make intelligent decisions about my health care.  I was very much dismayed with how I was spoken to and treated by these doctors.  And I no longer wanted to be under their so-called care. Quite the opposite of "care".

When relating the occurrences to a cousin of mine who is a doctor, he was outraged at their conduct--especially with the one oncologist who telephoned my house and ranted/screamed in my ear when I had to cancel my first scheduled chemo appointment due to not being well after my port was placed--very sick. I just let him go on and on--knowing he would run out of steam--I was not about to engage in both a ridiculous and unhealthy conversation.  Needless to say, I never went to him again.  His true personality came to the fore--I would never be comfortable being treated by him.  I have enough to deal with without having to play psychologist to someone out of control and imperious in behavior.

Anyway, will download those links--tried the DCA paper--that easily came up.  Having some difficulties with the last link--but will ask someone to help me with that--not that computer experienced!

Again, you have my deepest thanks for the information you have shared.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:25 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 3:31 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 11:53 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:17 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:00 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 07, 2015 10:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wanted to throw this out to the thread for some reaction.

Apparently one of the mechanisms of action of cannabis oil is through depleting energy production (ATP) in the mitochondria.

It sure makes me wonder whether cannabis oil might have potential if combined with 3-BP.

from Stephen B. Strum, MD

Again, sorry to bring in what I would consider an element of reality.  First, let's see some evidence of response in humans to 3BP where there is a clearcut meaningful & durable response, and where the TI (therapeutic index) is high, and the treatment is not invasive or can only be done by a very select few.

What shocks me is the lack of excitement for those with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) about a clean case of a complete remission using only DCA + some over-the-counter (OTC) adjuncts, with the remission lasting over 5 years after the patient had blatant progressive disease on Rituxan-CHOP with documentation of the pathology by an expert in hematopathology at the City of Hope, normalization of all signs and symptoms and of the FDG PET/CT as well.

It seems that perhaps human nature likes to focus on what may be rather than what already is.  Just my opinion after decades of caring for thousands of patients with cancer.
Pardon me for asking this--no doubt has been explained by you previously.  But what method did you use for the DCA--i.v., oral, etc.?  Cannot recall what you had stated earlier.

My one concern about DCA usage is the fact that besides Stage 4 breast cancer, I also have Chronic Borreliosis--late stage.  Very concerned about potential neuropathies--I know that B1 and ALA can help ameliorate them--but feel that Lyme patients can perhaps be more prone to such.  And I also am what is termed a hypersensitive patient--can react adversely to many drugs. Even anesthesia causes me much distress--more than the usual patient.  Probably because of the long-standing Lyme infection--immune system fragile.

Somehow what I have gleaned to date about 3-BP is that neuropathies are not common to this treatment.  I know there is much more to learn about it--would welcome any input from you.
from Stephen B. Strum, MD

I did provide a link to the full PDF via Dropbox. Here it is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  %20NHL%20CR.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Strum%2012%20DCA

This is a Public link so anyone should be able to access it.

The publication came about after I inquired if any individual had a major response to DCA. It was a forum called TheDCAsite. About 6 patients replied & I asked that the full medical records be received & reviewed by me to confirm that indeed there was a legitimate DCA response. Of those approx 6 or so patients, there were 2 that stood out. One was the man who was the subject of our case report. The other gent had a cholangiocarcinoma but upon review of his complete medical record we saw that RT (radiation therapy) was started the same day as the DCA.

DCA dosing was therefore determined by the patient.  In TM's case it was oral at 10 mg/kg in 2 divided doses i.e.  5 mg/kg twice a day. TM has been on DCA, 5 days on, 2 days off for a year or so. Then he has ↓ his dosing to 2 days a week.  It has been a year since we have gone over the details of his management. The publication gives far more details and my memory might be off on some of the above. He has had no neuropathy and other patients since TM on that dosing schedule have had minor issues with peripheral neuropathy.  In your case, a bigger issue for me would be the BC (breast cancer) and not the potential for low grade neuropathy, which is reversible.  I, too, am a slow metabolizer of many drugs, including the "caine" anesthetics.

I believe that given the key issue of glucose utilization by the tumor cell population, is whether or not abnormal FDG PET/CT is a key marker that screens out likely responders vs non-responders to either DCA or 3BP.  If I were at a center where studies were being done on these small molecules, that would be one of the first things I would ascertain.

A real issue for me with any cancer patient is whether or not their treatment to date has been optimized. Have you had an outstanding medical oncologist involved in your care?  Where do you live, and who has been the MedOnc.  Re the Lyme disease, are you aware of some provocative literature, such as that re use of Claritin? Have you read this paper:

Wagh D, Pothineni VR, Inayathullah M, et al: Borreliacidal activity of Borrelia metal transporter A (BmtA) binding small molecules by manganese transport inhibition. Drug Des Devel Ther 9:805-16, 2015.

If you download the free trial of EndNote at www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">www.endnote.com  then I can send you an extensive and in-depth review of published articles on Lyme disease I have done & which took me many weeks.  I have also put the file in the public folder of my Dropbox just now; it is 43 MB--too large for email. If you download EndNote I will tell you a simply way to handle this file so that it opens with all of my PDFs, all the citations, and grouping of the findings into special categories. This is sharing at its very best. The Dropbox link is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE "" target="\_blank" 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rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/ID%20LYME%20DISE

You have been more than kind with your thorough reply to my questions--very much appreciated. And thank you for the links--will download them.

I have had at least 3FDG PET/CT scans over the past few years--all show glucose uptake. So I feel that DCA or 3BP may be quite appropriate in my case. I am very careful with my diet--no sugar at all, etc.  And, I would say, modified ketogenic diet.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find an outstanding oncologist--so my treatment, sad to say, has not been optimized--and it certainly needs to be.   Instead have met some who are quite opposed to any type of supplements ("food is all one needs"), holistic support, and have thrown temper tantrums (see my other posts regarding them).

Neither one would have ever agreed to use DCA--they were very, very rigid in their mind sets, i.e. the usage of bisphosphanates without considering the former details you listed in another post--and the fact that my TMJ specialist was adamant against their use.  In fact, when I calmly related these dental problems, concerns, and history,  there was no reply except--"one injection a month for 12 months"--end of subject. Case closed for her.  Nowhere for me to go on that one...except never to return.

I am usually quite an easy person to get along with--am not antagonistic--so their attitudes were quite obstructionist instead of helpful.  I am one who tries to learn the best I can with whatever I must deal with--I want to make intelligent decisions about my health care.  I was very much dismayed with how I was spoken to and treated by these doctors.  And I no longer wanted to be under their so-called care. Quite the opposite of "care".

When relating the occurrences to a cousin of mine who is a doctor, he was outraged at their conduct--especially with the one oncologist who telephoned my house and ranted/screamed in my ear when I had to cancel my first scheduled chemo appointment due to not being well after my port was placed--very sick. I just let him go on and on--knowing he would run out of steam--I was not about to engage in both a ridiculous and unhealthy conversation.  Needless to say, I never went to him again.  His true personality came to the fore--I would never be comfortable being treated by him.  I have enough to deal with without having to play psychologist to someone out of control and imperious in behavior.

Anyway, will download those links--tried the DCA paper--that easily came up.  Having some difficulties with the last link--but will ask someone to help me with that--not that computer experienced!

Again, you have my deepest thanks for the information you have shared.
To Jetsparkle from Stephen B. Strum, MD:

First, there seems to be a bug in the Forum regarding the use of URLs in that anyone that provides a URL has it show up in triplicate in the post.  Can that be fixed?

Second, if you tell me what city you are in perhaps i can give you the name of a real physcian, and not anyone of the ilk that you have had.  Remember that "people declare themselves" be they politicians, physicians or the man on the street. Use that info to remove yourself from such caustic individuals.

TMJ is not a contra-indication to the use of bisphosphonates or RANK ligand inhibitors.  Receptor Activator Nuclear Factor Kappa (RANK) is a major advance in oncology & preventing release of bone-derived growth factors 2° bone resorption which is common in PC, BC (breast cancer) & lung cancer & probably all cancers is a critical cancer control issue that is ignored.  Again, this is the concept of Bone Integrity that is covered in “Prostate Cancer.  Essential Concepts for Survival”.  PC & BC are brother-sister diseases & one can easily extrapolate from one to the other.

I hope the above helps.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:49 PM
Quote | ReplyI should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 01:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 4:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
That is so awful to even think about Jet. You have my sympathy and prayers for healing. xx
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 02:27 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 5:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 4:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
That is so awful to even think about Jet. You have my sympathy and prayers for healing. xx
Moonlitnight,

Your words are healing in themselves....and please know that I wish you and your husband only the very best--healing, recovery, and love.

It is good to know there are still people out there with good intentions. good hearts, and compassion for others.  Here you are going through your own very serious trials--yet you continue to encourage and think of others.

Please know that so many of us here on the thread are appreciative of both your exceptional kindness--and your intellect. xx
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 03:05 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 6:27 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 4:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
That is so awful to even think about Jet. You have my sympathy and prayers for healing. xx
Moonlitnight,

Your words are healing in themselves....and please know that I wish you and your husband only the very best--healing, recovery, and love.

It is good to know there are still people out there with good intentions. good hearts, and compassion for others.  Here you are going through your own very serious trials--yet you continue to encourage and think of others.

Please know that so many of us here on the thread are appreciative of both your exceptional kindness--and your intellect. xx
Jet, thank you. I'd like to say "That is unnecessary" but in the world of epigenetics, it isn't! Our genetic expression can change as a result of giving as well as receiving. I cannot imagine a world where other people or animals are not as important as one's own self, for we are all connected. Just ask Albert Einstein,

“We are part of the whole which we call the universe, but it is an optical delusion of our mind that we think we are separate. This separateness is like a prison for us. Our job is to widen the community of our passion so we feel connected with all people and situations.”

Prof. William Bengston  has been healing terminal cancer in mice for over 30 years through energy healing. When he takes tissue or blood from those healed mice and injects other mice before double and triple dosing them with lethal mammary cancer, they cannot get that cancer - or any cancer. Nude mice, bred without immune systems go through the whole energy healing treatment and still die, so we know it is the immune system being boosted massively. But why? How? He has healed humans too but cannot talk about that.

I believe, and I think he might too, that it is the simple act of caring that boosts the immune response enough to overcome these powerful cancers. These experiments have been performed by Bill under strict university medical lab protocols over and over, in different labs. No one wants to know about it as these labs are funded by pharma. They all want to redo it to prove something "went wrong" but give up when the mice are cured over and over. Significantly, Bill hates to see any animal go through this, but his dream is to create a vaccine.

Anyhow, thank you again for your kindness. May it come back to you in spades!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 03:34 PM
Quote | Replyyes..this clinic : http://kankerbehandelen.nl/behandelingen/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 04:08 PM
Quote | ReplyHas anyone figured out yet whether the Netherlands clinic above offers 3-BP? They might offer DCA. It is hard to tell as my Dutch is a little rusty.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 04:20 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 8:08 PM Jcancom wrote:

Has anyone figured out yet whether the Netherlands clinic above offers 3-BP? They might offer DCA. It is hard to tell as my Dutch is a little rusty.
You can get DCA up here in Canada as well (at least in BC).

http://yaletownnaturopathic.com/integrative-oncology/

http://www.lemmo.com/

http://www.integratedhealthclinic.com/\_cancercare/\_CCCTreatm
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 04:31 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 7:05 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 6:27 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 4:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
That is so awful to even think about Jet. You have my sympathy and prayers for healing. xx
Moonlitnight,

Your words are healing in themselves....and please know that I wish you and your husband only the very best--healing, recovery, and love.

It is good to know there are still people out there with good intentions. good hearts, and compassion for others.  Here you are going through your own very serious trials--yet you continue to encourage and think of others.

Please know that so many of us here on the thread are appreciative of both your exceptional kindness--and your intellect. xx
Jet, thank you. I'd like to say "That is unnecessary" but in the world of epigenetics, it isn't! Our genetic expression can change as a result of giving as well as receiving. I cannot imagine a world where other people or animals are not as important as one's own self, for we are all connected. Just ask Albert Einstein,

“We are part of the whole which we call the universe, but it is an optical delusion of our mind that we think we are separate. This separateness is like a prison for us. Our job is to widen the community of our passion so we feel connected with all people and situations.”

Prof. William Bengston  has been healing terminal cancer in mice for over 30 years through energy healing. When he takes tissue or blood from those healed mice and injects other mice before double and triple dosing them with lethal mammary cancer, they cannot get that cancer - or any cancer. Nude mice, bred without immune systems go through the whole energy healing treatment and still die, so we know it is the immune system being boosted massively. But why? How? He has healed humans too but cannot talk about that.

I believe, and I think he might too, that it is the simple act of caring that boosts the immune response enough to overcome these powerful cancers. These experiments have been performed by Bill under strict university medical lab protocols over and over, in different labs. No one wants to know about it as these labs are funded by pharma. They all want to redo it to prove something "went wrong" but give up when the mice are cured over and over. Significantly, Bill hates to see any animal go through this, but his dream is to create a vaccine.

Anyhow, thank you again for your kindness. May it come back to you in spades!
Beautifully written--much appreciated!  And very interesting work Prof. Bengston is doing...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 04:37 PM

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On jul 08, 2015 8:08 Jcancom wrote:

Has anyone figured out yet whether the Netherlands clinic above offers 3-BP? They might offer DCA. It is hard to tell as my Dutch is a little rusty.
this is a dutch clinis in Germany that works wih 3-Bp http://kankerbehandelen.nl/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 04:50 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 8:31 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 7:05 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 6:27 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 5:41 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 4:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I should have expressed that more is involved than a continuing TMJ problem--cavitations also.  Orthodontia performed in the 1960's--poorly done and much stress on the jaw/teeth.
That is so awful to even think about Jet. You have my sympathy and prayers for healing. xx
Moonlitnight,

Your words are healing in themselves....and please know that I wish you and your husband only the very best--healing, recovery, and love.

It is good to know there are still people out there with good intentions. good hearts, and compassion for others.  Here you are going through your own very serious trials--yet you continue to encourage and think of others.

Please know that so many of us here on the thread are appreciative of both your exceptional kindness--and your intellect. xx
Jet, thank you. I'd like to say "That is unnecessary" but in the world of epigenetics, it isn't! Our genetic expression can change as a result of giving as well as receiving. I cannot imagine a world where other people or animals are not as important as one's own self, for we are all connected. Just ask Albert Einstein,

“We are part of the whole which we call the universe, but it is an optical delusion of our mind that we think we are separate. This separateness is like a prison for us. Our job is to widen the community of our passion so we feel connected with all people and situations.”

Prof. William Bengston  has been healing terminal cancer in mice for over 30 years through energy healing. When he takes tissue or blood from those healed mice and injects other mice before double and triple dosing them with lethal mammary cancer, they cannot get that cancer - or any cancer. Nude mice, bred without immune systems go through the whole energy healing treatment and still die, so we know it is the immune system being boosted massively. But why? How? He has healed humans too but cannot talk about that.

I believe, and I think he might too, that it is the simple act of caring that boosts the immune response enough to overcome these powerful cancers. These experiments have been performed by Bill under strict university medical lab protocols over and over, in different labs. No one wants to know about it as these labs are funded by pharma. They all want to redo it to prove something "went wrong" but give up when the mice are cured over and over. Significantly, Bill hates to see any animal go through this, but his dream is to create a vaccine.

Anyhow, thank you again for your kindness. May it come back to you in spades!
Beautifully written--much appreciated!  And very interesting work Prof. Bengston is doing...
He is my hero. I have taken a workshop with him. He charged peanuts...enough to cover a very cheap hotel room, flight and meals I'd say. An extremly brilliant man ahead of his time.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jul 08, 2015 05:31 PM
Quote | ReplyIf all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 05:45 PM

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On Jul 08, 2015 9:31 PM Freyr wrote:

If all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
The person who wrote about Prof. Bengston is quite allowed to have and express her opinions about various subject matters.  If you do not agree, then that is your prerogative also. However, deprecating words have no place on this forum.

Yes, we are all at times frustrated--we are dealing with a disease that has changed our lives.  But kindness and consideration behoove us all in our daily lives.  Having a positive spirit can help us maintain our dignity and give us peace in dealing with others.  That certainly does not hurt anything--whether one has cancer or not.

Science has not always provided the correct answers either--otherwise all cancer patients would be cured based upon such discoveries.  And so far I have not seen that happen. But let's be hopeful and combine a good outlook with perhaps better science.

So let's just keep a balance on this forum--and respect one another.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jul 08, 2015 05:48 PM
Quote | ReplyI also feel disilusioned about slow medical progress sometimes. I know there are lots of things that can be improved upon - but I don;t believe in a big conspiracy inside the medical industry that makes everything to NOT cure cancer - after all inventing a cure for cancer would bring massive financial benefits - and there are some cancers that are curable but were not just several decades ago.

Disproving "big pharma conspiracy" is simple, just think - most cancer patients die within a year of diagnosis - so the amount of drugs (=amount of money) taken by an average person with metastatic cancer is not big. There are many people with various chronic ilnesses who are on meds for DECADES. So if the "Big Pharma" wanted to earn the largest amount of money on cancer patients, it would make much more sense to treat them AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. Why then don't they release some drugs that are ridiculously expansive but can keep patients alive until old age? It seems that they don't have such a drug.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:02 PM
Quote | ReplyJEtsparkie:

Science does not know anything - OK.But  it does not claim that it does.The  reason we no longer treat pneumonia with bloodletting is because various brilliant people over the course of centuries had courage to doubt and to improve upon the discoveries of others. Today no scientist (and this is especially true for quickly changing fields of study - such as medicine) will tell you that our current understanding is perfect. If he says that, he is not a scientist anymore.

Alternative "medicine" folks don't have scientific attitude. They often claim extraordinary results for their therapies (proponents of acupuncture say that it can cure pretty much every ilness and Gerson claimed that his method can cure every cancer), they also fiercely resist being tested by scientific method and 99% of times the only arguments they give are "conventional medicine is bad" or "it's natural" or "it's a treatment used by Chinese/Indians/whatever for 1000 years". If ANY scientists used such an argument in his paper, not only would he be fired, but stripped from all his scientific titles.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:12 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 9:45 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:31 PM Freyr wrote:

If all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
The person who wrote about Prof. Bengston is quite allowed to have and express her opinions about various subject matters.  If you do not agree, then that is your prerogative also. However, deprecating words have no place on this forum.

Yes, we are all at times frustrated--we are dealing with a disease that has changed our lives.  But kindness and consideration behoove us all in our daily lives.  Having a positive spirit can help us maintain our dignity and give us peace in dealing with others.  That certainly does not hurt anything--whether one has cancer or not.

Science has not always provided the correct answers either--otherwise all cancer patients would be cured based upon such discoveries.  And so far I have not seen that happen. But let's be hopeful and combine a good outlook with perhaps better science.

So let's just keep a balance on this forum--and respect one another.
I totally agree with the statements above. I have a scientific background and i accept that science today can explain a little only and sometimes can be missleading as well. Science is great but in order to discover new facts many times we need to go beyond science. And than science will be created to explain the new facts.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 10:02 PM Freyr wrote:

JEtsparkie:

Science does not know anything - OK.But "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://OK.But " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">OK.But  it does not claim that it does.The "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://does.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">does.The  reason we no longer treat pneumonia with bloodletting is because various brilliant people over the course of centuries had courage to doubt and to improve upon the discoveries of others. Today no scientist (and this is especially true for quickly changing fields of study - such as medicine) will tell you that our current understanding is perfect. If he says that, he is not a scientist anymore.

Alternative "medicine" folks don't have scientific attitude. They often claim extraordinary results for their therapies (proponents of acupuncture say that it can cure pretty much every ilness and Gerson claimed that his method can cure every cancer), they also fiercely resist being tested by scientific method and 99% of times the only arguments they give are "conventional medicine is bad" or "it's natural" or "it's a treatment used by Chinese/Indians/whatever for 1000 years". If ANY scientists used such an argument in his paper, not only would he be fired, but stripped from all his scientific titles.
How completely wrong to state 'Alternative "medicine" folks don't have scientific attitude.' Be assured that our naturopaths up here in BC have taken at least 7 years of schooling and many also have medical degrees. They use protocols and medications that have been studied for efficacy and have to be certified. Picking names like "Gerson" out of a hat does not define any of the oncological naturopaths I know - all of whom work closely with oncologists on patient care.

Science as we know it seeks to challenge itself, which is fine, but also the reason for the absurd number of "studies" all refuting each other and wasting precious dollars that could be better spent on sourcing some real cures and not the management drugs that bring the shareholders of pharmaceutical firms their big bucks.

Personally, I know three oncological naturopathic physicians and will happily provide their names if you wish to forward your remarks to them for their consideration. I am sure you will find their responses very enlightening.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:32 PM
Quote | ReplyI have shifted marginally in the direction that there is a conspiracy. Members on this thread are aware of medications that have at least plausible evidence of anti-cancer effects (for example, DCA, 3-BP, MG etc.). Yet these drugs have been in developmental limbo-- sometimes for many decades. One of the websites I noted in an earlier post mentioned that a newspaper article from 1887 discussed the role of sugar in cancer! Simple drugs that can be bought online cheaply, have as of yet attracted little if in any interest by pharmaceutical companies. There is some interest by pharmaceutical companies to develop metabolic drugs, though if these could show anything close to the responses that we have seen with 3-BP they would likely cost several hundred thousands of dollars for a year of treatment.  As we have seen with 3-BP, it is possible that a cure for cancer could be developed without any financial windfall being created. If there had been a gain to be made with 3-BP, there is simply no question that its development would now be more advanced.

It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. However, even they do not seem very interested in bringing it the clinic. They have spent many years on it and there appears to have been almost no progress. They might also not be interested in developing a drug that could be synthesized in a high school chemistry lab.

It should also be remembered that the patent life of many drugs can be surprisingly limited. Consider some of the breakthough immunology cancer drugs. I was very surprised recently when I checked their patent expiration dates. One of these drugs is going off patent in 2020! These drugs are only now entering mainstream acceptance and they will soon go generic. We are quickly approaching a point where fairly effective cancer drugs could be priced on the same economic scale as antibiotics.

As I posted recently, when I think through the mind experiment of me being in a lab with internet access trying to cure a patient with terminal cancer, my best estimate is that I could do it. The medications that are currently in the pipeline for cancer are very powerful.

Nanocells using nanograms of chemotherapy induced curative responses in mice. The recent evidence in humans with nanocells is encouraging. However, it has already taken almost ten years to work through a few phase 1 clinical trials. It is difficult to imagine why it has taken so long.

X Ray photodynamic therapy-- being able to target cancer anywhere in the body with X-Rays. These technologies are very promising. Instead of waiting decades for them, if people could access them now, it is not unreasonable to think that the cure is already here.

This is the real tragedy and outrage! Why is there not a Right To Try II Law? People with terminal illnesses should have unrestricted access to all available treatments in development or otherwise. The Right To Try Laws have been so weakened by creating conditions that they might not be very helpful. Why shouldn't terminally ill patients be able to access any treatment they want? It would be very interesting to see how quickly the cure for cancer might emerge under such circumstances.

As it is now what typically happens is the doctor discharges the patient to palliative care after the chemotherapy has been shown once again not to be effective.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:46 PM
Quote | ReplyActually, I find Freyr's comment both predicable and laughable (and also a little sad). Just wait until I start up about sound healing and how effective that has been shown to be. Also, it matters not one whit where one has been published or indeed if one has been published at all. If healing takes place, it takes place. Freyr, I hope you find that place of peace that is so vital to a good healing response. I am leaving this specific post permanently now as there is no benefit in pursuing it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 06:52 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 9:45 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:31 PM Freyr wrote:

If all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
The person who wrote about Prof. Bengston is quite allowed to have and express her opinions about various subject matters.  If you do not agree, then that is your prerogative also. However, deprecating words have no place on this forum.

Yes, we are all at times frustrated--we are dealing with a disease that has changed our lives.  But kindness and consideration behoove us all in our daily lives.  Having a positive spirit can help us maintain our dignity and give us peace in dealing with others.  That certainly does not hurt anything--whether one has cancer or not.

Science has not always provided the correct answers either--otherwise all cancer patients would be cured based upon such discoveries.  And so far I have not seen that happen. But let's be hopeful and combine a good outlook with perhaps better science.

So let's just keep a balance on this forum--and respect one another.
Actually, I find Freyr's comment both predicable and laughable (and also a little sad). Just wait until I start up about sound healing and how effective that has been shown to be. Also, it matters not one whit where one has been published or indeed if one has been published at all. If healing takes place, it takes place. Freyr, I hope you find that place of peace that is so vital to a good healing response. I am leaving this specific post permanently now as there is no benefit in pursuing it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 07:55 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 10:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

I have shifted marginally in the direction that there is a conspiracy. Members on this thread are aware of medications that have at least plausible evidence of anti-cancer effects (for example, DCA, 3-BP, MG etc.). Yet these drugs have been in developmental limbo-- sometimes for many decades. One of the websites I noted in an earlier post mentioned that a newspaper article from 1887 discussed the role of sugar in cancer! Simple drugs that can be bought online cheaply, have as of yet attracted little if in any interest by pharmaceutical companies. There is some interest by pharmaceutical companies to develop metabolic drugs, though if these could show anything close to the responses that we have seen with 3-BP they would likely cost several hundred thousands of dollars for a year of treatment.  As we have seen with 3-BP, it is possible that a cure for cancer could be developed without any financial windfall being created. If there had been a gain to be made with 3-BP, there is simply no question that its development would now be more advanced.

It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. However, even they do not seem very interested in bringing it the clinic. They have spent many years on it and there appears to have been almost no progress. They might also not be interested in developing a drug that could be synthesized in a high school chemistry lab.

It should also be remembered that the patent life of many drugs can be surprisingly limited. Consider some of the breakthough immunology cancer drugs. I was very surprised recently when I checked their patent expiration dates. One of these drugs is going off patent in 2020! These drugs are only now entering mainstream acceptance and they will soon go generic. We are quickly approaching a point where fairly effective cancer drugs could be priced on the same economic scale as antibiotics.

As I posted recently, when I think through the mind experiment of me being in a lab with internet access trying to cure a patient with terminal cancer, my best estimate is that I could do it. The medications that are currently in the pipeline for cancer are very powerful.

Nanocells using nanograms of chemotherapy induced curative responses in mice. The recent evidence in humans with nanocells is encouraging. However, it has already taken almost ten years to work through a few phase 1 clinical trials. It is difficult to imagine why it has taken so long.

X Ray photodynamic therapy-- being able to target cancer anywhere in the body with X-Rays. These technologies are very promising. Instead of waiting decades for them, if people could access them now, it is not unreasonable to think that the cure is already here.

This is the real tragedy and outrage! Why is there not a Right To Try II Law? People with terminal illnesses should have unrestricted access to all available treatments in development or otherwise. The Right To Try Laws have been so weakened by creating conditions that they might not be very helpful. Why shouldn't terminally ill patients be able to access any treatment they want? It would be very interesting to see how quickly the cure for cancer might emerge under such circumstances.

As it is now what typically happens is the doctor discharges the patient to palliative care after the chemotherapy has been shown once again not to be effective.
We can get photodynamic therapy quite easily up here from our naturopathic physicians.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:05 PM
Quote | ReplyX-Ray photodynamic therapy is a newly published form that is quite remarkable. Using X-Rays you could target anywhere in the body. Traditional photodyamic therapy is highly limited by the penetration depth of light. There would not be such a limitation if you were to use X-rays. It is brilliant.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:07 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 11:55 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 10:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

I have shifted marginally in the direction that there is a conspiracy. Members on this thread are aware of medications that have at least plausible evidence of anti-cancer effects (for example, DCA, 3-BP, MG etc.). Yet these drugs have been in developmental limbo-- sometimes for many decades. One of the websites I noted in an earlier post mentioned that a newspaper article from 1887 discussed the role of sugar in cancer! Simple drugs that can be bought online cheaply, have as of yet attracted little if in any interest by pharmaceutical companies. There is some interest by pharmaceutical companies to develop metabolic drugs, though if these could show anything close to the responses that we have seen with 3-BP they would likely cost several hundred thousands of dollars for a year of treatment.  As we have seen with 3-BP, it is possible that a cure for cancer could be developed without any financial windfall being created. If there had been a gain to be made with 3-BP, there is simply no question that its development would now be more advanced.

It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. However, even they do not seem very interested in bringing it the clinic. They have spent many years on it and there appears to have been almost no progress. They might also not be interested in developing a drug that could be synthesized in a high school chemistry lab.

It should also be remembered that the patent life of many drugs can be surprisingly limited. Consider some of the breakthough immunology cancer drugs. I was very surprised recently when I checked their patent expiration dates. One of these drugs is going off patent in 2020! These drugs are only now entering mainstream acceptance and they will soon go generic. We are quickly approaching a point where fairly effective cancer drugs could be priced on the same economic scale as antibiotics.

As I posted recently, when I think through the mind experiment of me being in a lab with internet access trying to cure a patient with terminal cancer, my best estimate is that I could do it. The medications that are currently in the pipeline for cancer are very powerful.

Nanocells using nanograms of chemotherapy induced curative responses in mice. The recent evidence in humans with nanocells is encouraging. However, it has already taken almost ten years to work through a few phase 1 clinical trials. It is difficult to imagine why it has taken so long.

X Ray photodynamic therapy-- being able to target cancer anywhere in the body with X-Rays. These technologies are very promising. Instead of waiting decades for them, if people could access them now, it is not unreasonable to think that the cure is already here.

This is the real tragedy and outrage! Why is there not a Right To Try II Law? People with terminal illnesses should have unrestricted access to all available treatments in development or otherwise. The Right To Try Laws have been so weakened by creating conditions that they might not be very helpful. Why shouldn't terminally ill patients be able to access any treatment they want? It would be very interesting to see how quickly the cure for cancer might emerge under such circumstances.

As it is now what typically happens is the doctor discharges the patient to palliative care after the chemotherapy has been shown once again not to be effective.
We can get photodynamic therapy quite easily up here from our naturopathic physicians.
To Moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

2 things in our post I would like to ask or comment on:

"It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. "

Please post details on who this is and if any citations.

"right to try"

I and two other oncologists filed a suit against the FDA involving early access to investigational agents.  It went to a Federal judge who ruled against us, with us being Vincent DeVita and Emil J. Freireich (of MD Anderson).  This suit was initated by the Abigail Alliance. Google that if you wish to learn more.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:08 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 12:05 AM Jcancom wrote:

X-Ray photodynamic therapy is a newly published form that is quite remarkable. Using X-Rays you could target anywhere in the body. Traditional photodyamic therapy is highly limited by the penetration depth of light. There would not be such a limitation if you were to use X-rays. It is brilliant.
The version our naturopathic doctor makes available is laser...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 08, 2015 10:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:45 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:31 PM Freyr wrote:

If all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
The person who wrote about Prof. Bengston is quite allowed to have and express her opinions about various subject matters.  If you do not agree, then that is your prerogative also. However, deprecating words have no place on this forum.

Yes, we are all at times frustrated--we are dealing with a disease that has changed our lives.  But kindness and consideration behoove us all in our daily lives.  Having a positive spirit can help us maintain our dignity and give us peace in dealing with others.  That certainly does not hurt anything--whether one has cancer or not.

Science has not always provided the correct answers either--otherwise all cancer patients would be cured based upon such discoveries.  And so far I have not seen that happen. But let's be hopeful and combine a good outlook with perhaps better science.

So let's just keep a balance on this forum--and respect one another.
Actually, I find Freyr's comment both predicable and laughable (and also a little sad). Just wait until I start up about sound healing and how effective that has been shown to be. Also, it matters not one whit where one has been published or indeed if one has been published at all. If healing takes place, it takes place. Freyr, I hope you find that place of peace that is so vital to a good healing response. I am leaving this specific post permanently now as there is no benefit in pursuing it.
To Moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

This is a good time for my list of unproven cancer treatments:

Jesse Stoff MD immune therapy purported as having anti-angiogenesis efficacy ?

Virginia Livingston MD using BCG and autologous vaccine ?

Henry Han herbalist using PC SPES and herbs in Santa Barbara ?

Gerson Clinics in California using vegetarian diet and coffee enemas ?

Harold Manner (Death of Cancer) using laetrile & BCG vaccine in Las Vegas ?

IPT (insulin potentiating therapy) per Steven Ayres in Chicago ‡

Haim Beichler MD in Culver City,  radiation oncologist using hyperthermia + RT ‡

James Forsythe using PolyMVA in Las Vegas ‡

Lawrence Burton Immune Augmentation Therapy in the Bahamas ?

Nick Gonzales MD in NYC using dietary approach to cancer ‡

Stanislaw Burzynski MD in Houston using Anti-Neoplaston therapy for various cancers including PC, BC ‡

Essiac Tea from Vancouver, BC ‡

Naessens 714X from Quebec City, Canada ‡

Mistletoe treatment from Germany ‡

Brian Issels ozone therapy from Germany ?

Stefan Doues at Klinik St. Georg using Hyperthermia in Bad Abling, Germany  ‡

Hans Nieper (deceased) using a pot pourri of treatments in Germany ?

Woochul Moon in S. Korea using immune therapy ?

Barbara Luetegbrune in Santa Barbara, medical intuitive ‡

Porter's Photodynamic Therapy in Ireland ?

Simoncini's fungal based therapy from Italy ?

Gold's Hydrazine Sulfate Rx of Cancer ‡

Larry Clapp's colon cleansing treatment ?

Lentinan and MGN-3 Rx per Dr. Ghoneum to augment NK cells ‡

Active Hexose Correlated Compound (AHCC) for same as above ‡

IP-6 ?

Artemesinin ‡

Laetrile per Cancer Control Society ?

High dose Vit C i.v. ‡

Moviglia's dendritic cell therapy ‡

Ioannis Papasotiriou CTC with drug and supplement panels based on CTC gene expression

There have been others using photographs and handwriting to heal long distance, i.e. remote healing

Those with ‡ I have had personal contact with and followed patients under their direction,  while those with  ? i have reviewed medical records pertaining to patients,  but have not actually been the treating MD.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:11 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 12:07 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 11:55 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 10:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

I have shifted marginally in the direction that there is a conspiracy. Members on this thread are aware of medications that have at least plausible evidence of anti-cancer effects (for example, DCA, 3-BP, MG etc.). Yet these drugs have been in developmental limbo-- sometimes for many decades. One of the websites I noted in an earlier post mentioned that a newspaper article from 1887 discussed the role of sugar in cancer! Simple drugs that can be bought online cheaply, have as of yet attracted little if in any interest by pharmaceutical companies. There is some interest by pharmaceutical companies to develop metabolic drugs, though if these could show anything close to the responses that we have seen with 3-BP they would likely cost several hundred thousands of dollars for a year of treatment.  As we have seen with 3-BP, it is possible that a cure for cancer could be developed without any financial windfall being created. If there had been a gain to be made with 3-BP, there is simply no question that its development would now be more advanced.

It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. However, even they do not seem very interested in bringing it the clinic. They have spent many years on it and there appears to have been almost no progress. They might also not be interested in developing a drug that could be synthesized in a high school chemistry lab.

It should also be remembered that the patent life of many drugs can be surprisingly limited. Consider some of the breakthough immunology cancer drugs. I was very surprised recently when I checked their patent expiration dates. One of these drugs is going off patent in 2020! These drugs are only now entering mainstream acceptance and they will soon go generic. We are quickly approaching a point where fairly effective cancer drugs could be priced on the same economic scale as antibiotics.

As I posted recently, when I think through the mind experiment of me being in a lab with internet access trying to cure a patient with terminal cancer, my best estimate is that I could do it. The medications that are currently in the pipeline for cancer are very powerful.

Nanocells using nanograms of chemotherapy induced curative responses in mice. The recent evidence in humans with nanocells is encouraging. However, it has already taken almost ten years to work through a few phase 1 clinical trials. It is difficult to imagine why it has taken so long.

X Ray photodynamic therapy-- being able to target cancer anywhere in the body with X-Rays. These technologies are very promising. Instead of waiting decades for them, if people could access them now, it is not unreasonable to think that the cure is already here.

This is the real tragedy and outrage! Why is there not a Right To Try II Law? People with terminal illnesses should have unrestricted access to all available treatments in development or otherwise. The Right To Try Laws have been so weakened by creating conditions that they might not be very helpful. Why shouldn't terminally ill patients be able to access any treatment they want? It would be very interesting to see how quickly the cure for cancer might emerge under such circumstances.

As it is now what typically happens is the doctor discharges the patient to palliative care after the chemotherapy has been shown once again not to be effective.
We can get photodynamic therapy quite easily up here from our naturopathic physicians.
To Moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

2 things in our post I would like to ask or comment on:

"It should also be noted that MD Anderson has synthesized a 3-BP analog and they have also published very impressive pre-clinical results for their product. "

Please post details on who this is and if any citations.

"right to try"

I and two other oncologists filed a suit against the FDA involving early access to investigational agents.  It went to a Federal judge who ruled against us, with us being Vincent DeVita and Emil J. Freireich (of MD Anderson).  This suit was initated by the Abigail Alliance. Google that if you wish to learn more.
Dr. Strum...I think you mean to address jcancom. I am not the author (but the nesting of the remarks is so confusing that I can quite understand that you thought it to be my post).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:21 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 12:10 AM sbstrum wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 10:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:45 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 08, 2015 9:31 PM Freyr wrote:

If all cases of "cancer cured in mice" translated into human results, there would be nothing to cure anymore.

And please, just don't bring some "energy" BS. We're trying to be scientific and introducing some shamanistic quackery does not help. Cancer cannot be cured by caring any more than it can be caused by uncaring. If cancer could be cured with energy healing, positive attitude or drinking juices, Steve Jobs (who was a happy, spiritual person and also disliked conventional medicine) and millions of other cancer victims would not die.

Prof. Bengston is not a medical professional. His PhD is in sociology and he has not published a single paper in a renowned journal of medical oncology. All of his "research" was published in two journals - Journal of Alternative and Complementalry Medicine and Journal of Scientific exploration. Both are scientific in name only (the latter routinely published "research" about reincarnation, UFOs and other "scientific" topics).
The person who wrote about Prof. Bengston is quite allowed to have and express her opinions about various subject matters.  If you do not agree, then that is your prerogative also. However, deprecating words have no place on this forum.

Yes, we are all at times frustrated--we are dealing with a disease that has changed our lives.  But kindness and consideration behoove us all in our daily lives.  Having a positive spirit can help us maintain our dignity and give us peace in dealing with others.  That certainly does not hurt anything--whether one has cancer or not.

Science has not always provided the correct answers either--otherwise all cancer patients would be cured based upon such discoveries.  And so far I have not seen that happen. But let's be hopeful and combine a good outlook with perhaps better science.

So let's just keep a balance on this forum--and respect one another.
Actually, I find Freyr's comment both predicable and laughable (and also a little sad). Just wait until I start up about sound healing and how effective that has been shown to be. Also, it matters not one whit where one has been published or indeed if one has been published at all. If healing takes place, it takes place. Freyr, I hope you find that place of peace that is so vital to a good healing response. I am leaving this specific post permanently now as there is no benefit in pursuing it.
To Moonlitnight from Stephen B. Strum, MD

This is a good time for my list of unproven cancer treatments:

Jesse Stoff MD immune therapy purported as having anti-angiogenesis efficacy ?

Virginia Livingston MD using BCG and autologous vaccine ?

Henry Han herbalist using PC SPES and herbs in Santa Barbara ?

Gerson Clinics in California using vegetarian diet and coffee enemas ?

Harold Manner (Death of Cancer) using laetrile & BCG vaccine in Las Vegas ?

IPT (insulin potentiating therapy) per Steven Ayres in Chicago ‡

Haim Beichler MD in Culver City,  radiation oncologist using hyperthermia + RT ‡

James Forsythe using PolyMVA in Las Vegas ‡

Lawrence Burton Immune Augmentation Therapy in the Bahamas ?

Nick Gonzales MD in NYC using dietary approach to cancer ‡

Stanislaw Burzynski MD in Houston using Anti-Neoplaston therapy for various cancers including PC, BC ‡

Essiac Tea from Vancouver, BC ‡

Naessens 714X from Quebec City, Canada ‡

Mistletoe treatment from Germany ‡

Brian Issels ozone therapy from Germany ?

Stefan Doues at Klinik St. Georg using Hyperthermia in Bad Abling, Germany  ‡

Hans Nieper (deceased) using a pot pourri of treatments in Germany ?

Woochul Moon in S. Korea using immune therapy ?

Barbara Luetegbrune in Santa Barbara, medical intuitive ‡

Porter's Photodynamic Therapy in Ireland ?

Simoncini's fungal based therapy from Italy ?

Gold's Hydrazine Sulfate Rx of Cancer ‡

Larry Clapp's colon cleansing treatment ?

Lentinan and MGN-3 Rx per Dr. Ghoneum to augment NK cells ‡

Active Hexose Correlated Compound (AHCC) for same as above ‡

IP-6 ?

Artemesinin ‡

Laetrile per Cancer Control Society ?

High dose Vit C i.v. ‡

Moviglia's dendritic cell therapy ‡

Ioannis Papasotiriou CTC with drug and supplement panels based on CTC gene expression

There have been others using photographs and handwriting to heal long distance, i.e. remote healing

Those with ‡ I have had personal contact with and followed patients under their direction,  while those with  ? i have reviewed medical records pertaining to patients,  but have not actually been the treating MD.
"Unproven" does not mean they do not work for some, Dr. Strum. Often, it means no one was prepared to cough up the funds for a formal study or trial. Although I would love the luxury of time to pull some evidence on some of these, I have both a sick husband and dog to contend with today. Also, evidence that suits me is likely not evidence that suits you. One could reasonably argue that 3BP is "unproven" and by inference that those who are pursuing it somehow lack intelligence or are less well informed on what cures and what does not than medical professionals, I suspect this is far from the truth.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:34 PM
Quote | ReplyI was being politically correct with unproven but I won't get into a "contest" with you vs me on this.  Let me just say that I can pretty much tell when a healthcare practitioner (HCP) hypes their results, especially when I am seeing that patient in consultation and have their FULL medical records and see what has been done.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 08:55 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 12:34 AM sbstrum wrote:

I was being politically correct with unproven but I won't get into a "contest" with you vs me on this.  Let me just say that I can pretty much tell when a healthcare practitioner (HCP) hypes their results, especially when I am seeing that patient in consultation and have their FULL medical records and see what has been done.
That's OK... Just like the pro-life/pro-choice issue, people tend to see things in black and white, with little room for shades of grey. But what if healing lies in those shades of grey? (I use "shades of grey because it's kind of cool these days, isn't it?) I would like to mention the case of a well known and respected retired surgeon (I won't say what his speciality was as he appears to be very concerned that his peers might find out and I have no idea who stalks this thread aside from Gorski).

He was given the kiss-off by the cancer agency, a doom and gloom prognosis, and so, like some othes he knew of, caught a plane to Mexico with his wife attended a clinic down there for laetrile treatment and a few other complementary treatments. (Laetrile is useless as a stand-alone therapy.) After the standard three weeks of treatment his PSA went from the three figures to the single digits. My friend (also a health professional) saw his chart. When at the clinic, one of the first people he ran into was one of his colleagues. Both men swore each other to silence as the whole Mexico/alternative thing is so ridiculed. Our own oncologist, before he palmed my husband off on palliative care because there are no more conventional treatments my husband would entertain, said that "we" (meaning oncology) have started doing what naturopaths said we should be doing years ago...immune therapies.

We need to open up more and be more respectful of other's experiences and therapies. That particular surgeon just returned from his annual top-up treatment in Mexico and his PSA remains low instead of soaring, as it did following conventional therapies. So who knows what has helped him? Something has and I doubt it was the worm in the tequila.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 09:00 PM
Quote | ReplyI want to appologize to the thread and all of humanity for my misplaced remarks on the cannabis oil patient report.

This thread now has a global reach and I realize that the name Jcancom now has something of a following. My remarks have tarnished my credibility. I am sorry.

Yet, it has really forced me to think about how easily one can be mislead by what superficially seems to be a plausible scientific article. It also has highlighted for me the possibility that even legitimate science (such as 3-BP) could have subtle insidious bias.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 08, 2015 09:08 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 1:00 AM Jcancom wrote:

I want to appologize to the thread and all of humanity for my misplaced remarks on the cannabis oil patient report.

This thread now has a global reach and I realize that the name Jcancom now has something of a following. My remarks have tarnished my credibility. I am sorry.

Yet, it has really forced me to think about how easily one can be mislead by what superficially seems to be a plausible scientific article. It also has highlighted for me the possibility that even legitimate science (such as 3-BP) could have subtle insidious bias.
The remarks were well intentioned at the time and only after more poking were considered to be made in haste. So how does this tarnish your credibility? I am quite sure that even Einstein had moments of regret for things believed (and stated), only to later be reconsidered. Rather, I think it shows you have passion and that this drives you further than most in your quest for, and belief in a cure.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 09:28 PM
Quote | ReplyWhether they're unproven or ineffective is irrelevant in this thread. We should keep discussion to 3BP and other glycolysis inhibitors. Associating this treatment with holistic healing and things that are seen as quackery does more harm than good for this medicine.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterjetsparkle

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:10 PM
Quote | ReplyI feel as if we are all on a very bad soap opera:  "As the stomach churns"...this thread has taken a negative turn lately that must be put aright.

Frankly I do not believe anyone that is interested in complementary/alternative treatments should be condemned or silenced.  Nor do I think any of these additional treatments are meant to be stand-alone treatments--no one is trying to usurp the usage of 3-BP by mentioning them.  Nor upstage 3-BP at all.

In any event, no one wants to take away anything from the possibliity that 3-BP can be a resounding cure.  We want to continue to share any information and/or progress with it.

However, one must look at the human body in its entirety and not be exactly like conventional medicine that unrealistically throws out drug after drug--with a plethora of side effects that can sometimes inhibit healing the body. Anything that can support and help a very sick person regain strength is vital to gaining recovery.

3-BP is indeed the highlight of this thread.  Yes, let's try to focus on that--but let us not be so blinded to think that additional supportive therapies cannot be very helpful. Other countries have recognized for a very long time the need to build up the immune system.

Many treatments conventionally  used to "fight" cancer have done nothing but kill both healthy and cancer cells.  That is why we are even interested in 3-BP to begin with--as a hopeful contrast to indiscriminate chemo and drugs.

Supportive therapies can indeed be a plus in healing  sick bodies.  And it is usually those who treat conventionally that term anything foreign to them as "quackery" and want to silence such.

Instead a former oncologist of mine maintains a very large bowl of candy in her waiting room--what a mental picture that is.  And imagine this same person telling a patient it is not EVER necessary to take any supplements--food alone is sufficient to provide vitamins and minerals.  Well, in a perfect world maybe.

Let's allow others to express themselves--let's not criticize what perhaps we are unfamiliar with--and let's continue to move forward with as much information as we can about 3-BP.

I am very, very tired this evening--hope my sentence structure is intact.  But we are all in this together--let's support one another in this cancer journey.  We really do need each other.

Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:45 PM
Quote | ReplyThis forum or thread is not, in my opinion, restricted to anything that is relevant. My point is that I have been down the road that most of you are on for 55 of my almost 73 years of existence.  This has involved "history" or "experience".  If you want to reinvent the wheel by ignoring or downplaying what I have learned in my lifetime then please tell me and I will depart from the forum.  When I cite cancer treatments that I have personally explored or that were involved in patients I have cared for and found not a glimpse of efficacy, and that is not considered relevant to this forum, then I am wasting my time.  It's that simple.

"The facts, ma'am, just the facts." --Jack Webb in Dragnet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:54 PM
Quote | ReplyIn terms of MD Anderson's version of 3-BP: MD Anderson made 3-bromo-2-oxopropionate-1-propyl ester (3-BrOP) which they call a third generation glycolysis inhibitor. It looks like 3-BrOP is 3-BP with three more carbons.

(See post #178 in url below for assumed chemical structure of 3-BrOP.)

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/73453-is-3-bromopyruvat

3-BrOP in Leukemia:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Targeting+glycolysis+in+leukemia%3A+A+novel+inhibitor+3-BrOP+in+combination+with+rapamycin

The MD Anderson researchers wrote:

"The next generation of glycolysis inhibitors is represented by 3-bromopyruvate (3-BrPA). 3-BrPA inhibits the enzyme hexokinase II, which is the rate-limiting step of the glycolytic pathway. This compound has greater potency but still requires dosing in the high micromolar range and has limited solubility and biodistribution. The novel, third-generation glycolysis inhibitor, 3-bromo-2-oxopropionate-1-propyl ester (3-BrOP) has recently been reported. 3-BrOP is a cell permeable ester of 3-bromopyruvate (3-BrPA). Once inside the cell, 3-BrOP is hydrolyzed by cellular esterase to release 3-BrPA. The esterification of 3-BrPA into 3-BrOP has yielded a highly stable and soluble compound that can be readily be used for evaluation of tumor response in vitro and in vivo. Importantly, 3-BrOP may be up to 1000-fold more potent than 2-deoxyglucose, now allowing feasible inhibition of glycolysis at 20 mcM rather than 20 mM. Previous reports have shown that 3-BrOP as well as its precursor, 3-BrPA can induce cell death in a variety of cancers including human lymphoma, hepatocellular carcinoma, colorectal carcinoma, and the human acute myeloid leukemia cell line HL60, . Inhibition of glycolysis with these agents has been highly effective and selective in vivo.  ...

...When 3-BrOP and antimycin A were combined, there was a dramatic decrease in ATP levels ...

In contrast, glycolysis inhibition with 3-BrOP induced slower depletion of ATP, but at higher doses and/or longer incubations, 3-BrOP alone was able to induce dramatic cell death and pro-caspase-3 cleavage."

Summary of other 3-BrOP scientific articles

http://www.cancercuremedicine.com/news-md-anderson-3-brop-or

2012 Neuroblastoma study

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10637-010-9551-y

http://www.nature.com/cdd/journal/v21/n1/abs/cdd2013131a.htm

MD Anderson site:

Headline: Will start a 3-BrOP clinical trial in 2009!!?

http://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2009/novel-

http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/departments

(2014, Page 47)

http://www.mdanderson.org/patient-and-cancer-information/car

(2014, Page 2)

Here's the patent filed for 3-BrOP filed in ... 2004.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20060058383
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:04 AM
Quote | ReplyFrom the Leukemia Research (2011) article quoted above, it should be noted that toxicity of the actimycin 3-BrOP combo might be a problem in the clinic.

"Importantly, the combination of 3-BrOP and antimycin A led to nearly complete depletion of ATP and enhanced cell death. Although glycolysis inhibitors and antimycin A derivatives have been used clinically, the potential toxicities of this combination may complicate clinical use of this combination."
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:45 AM
Quote | ReplyTo Jcancom,

Very helpful post, thanks. I have 3 of the 5 peer-reviewed papers as full PDFs and have ordered the other 2.  Basically all of these articles stem from MD Anderson investigators.

I will read these & then write to Michael Keating who I met many years ago & also copy J. Freireich of MD Anderson as well.  I worked in affiliation with MD Anderson while in the US Army during my two years in the army at Brooke Army Medical Center. Most of the docs there were from MDA.  3-BrOP looks very promising & I am sure there is a protocol to be found but unlikely drug that will be shared unless the patient is seen at one of the affiliated hospitals.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 09, 2015 01:15 AM
Quote | ReplyMDA might be worried about developing 3-BrOP further.

This might be related to the patent they filed. Figure 2, on sheet 2 of 46 (third page, [no page numbers show on the pdf]) provides the exact route of synthesis for 3-BrOP. In one step you can make 3-BrOP when starting from what appears to be 3-BP. The excess 1-Propanol is then removed.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googl

Such a synthesis might not even require a high school chemistry background.

People would be willing to pay a considerable amount of money for such a drug. Yet, considering how simple it is to make, and how easily available are the components, people might not need to pay top dollar for it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Jul 09, 2015 03:43 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 3:45 AM sbstrum wrote:

This forum or thread is not, in my opinion, restricted to anything that is relevant. My point is that I have been down the road that most of you are on for 55 of my almost 73 years of existence.  This has involved "history" or "experience".  If you want to reinvent the wheel by ignoring or downplaying what I have learned in my lifetime then please tell me and I will depart from the forum.  When I cite cancer treatments that I have personally explored or that were involved in patients I have cared for and found not a glimpse of efficacy, and that is not considered relevant to this forum, then I am wasting my time.  It's that simple.

"The facts, ma'am, just the facts." --Jack Webb in Dragnet
Dear dr strum, i am sure we all respect you experience and that has been reflected in a lot of enthusiams and response from the members. But you have to realize that experience and long activity in a field will limit people whether they want or not. And that applys to you and me and to anyoane else. In this cotext, lets try to focus on what we think is effective and not focuss the discussion on what we think is not working as personal experience may be biased. (Local hyperthermia for example is a great tool and it works)

For example, why do you think DCA is working in some people only, besides PET visible or not? And what is your approach to improve response to DCA?

What is your feeling about 3bp based on the knowledge you have so far on this subject?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:41 AM
Quote | Reply"For example, why do you think DCA is working in some people only, besides PET visible or not? And what is your approach to improve response to DCA?"

Strum: because the PET portion of PET/CT indicates the functionality of the tumor is at least in part related to the uR (up-regulation) of HK2 and GLUT-1 and the accumulation of FDG-6-phosphate 2° reduced levels of glucose-6-phosphatase it is quite possible that in some patients's tumors the tumor is more FDG avid.  I do not see much FDG positivity, for example, in PC (prostate cancer) but do see avid uptake in pancreatic ductal adenocarcinoma (PDAC).

I have no substantial clues to improve DCA response but more importantly wish to confirm efficacy-- first in non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) as I now have two durable remissions using the same low dose DCA protocol.  When I shared my manuscript with a key person in the lymphoma section of the City of Hope I was stunned to see no curiosity insofar as confirming or refuting the findings of our case report.  This interaction was between a medical oncologist that I have known since 1969 & where there has been mutual respect.  Amazing. It seems to me that the only way to get additional patients to add to the literature and push for a major trial is through word of mouth in patient forums.

"What is your feeling about 3bp based on the knowledge you have so far on this subject?"

I have spoken at length to Dr. Ko, and to Tom Seyfried and via email to Pete Pedersen.  3BP should be studied as should DCA in some pilot trials.  The study recently published by Chu et al on DCA from Canada was basically a negative report.  Is DCA possibly only active in NHL? There were no NHL patients in the Chu study. The cancer types were breast-3, colorectal cancer (CRC)-6, lung-5, head & neck-3, gyn-2, other-4, but no NHL. So the rest of the story is yet to unfold.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:53 AM
Quote | Reply,BP has already had responses in two completely unrelated cancers - hepatocarcinoma and melanoma.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:44 PM
Quote | ReplyDayspring reported responses in breast and pancreatic.

Columbia reported a response in lung.

Prescience Labs intends to start a clinical trial in liver cancer. Future development plans are in the works for pancreatic, breast, lung and ovarian cancers.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:49 PM
Quote | ReplylI will probably start this treatment in september. .in Germany..i got estrogen postitive breastcancer with mets in my bones liver and near my lungs
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 09, 2015 01:10 PM
Quote | ReplyWelcome new poster!

Hope we can help you. Some members of this thread have quite a bit of knowledge and experience with 3-BP, they might be able to point you in the right direction.

Best Wishes
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 09, 2015 01:13 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 4:49 PM mar60 wrote:

lI will probably start this treatment in september. .in Germany..i got estrogen postitive breastcancer with mets in my bones liver and near my lungs
Wishing you the very best with 3BP!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 09, 2015 01:37 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 4:49 PM mar60 wrote:

lI will probably start this treatment in september. .in Germany..i got estrogen postitive breastcancer with mets in my bones liver and near my lungs
Very happy that you will be having this treatment done!

Wishing you the very best of outcomes--so encouraging to all of us that you will be getting the care you deserve to have.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Thu Jul 09, 2015 02:36 PM
Quote | ReplyTo All,

I did not really reply to the question about 3BP.

I wanted to create a formal protocol re 3BP but I know that it took me a serious amount of hours to do that for DCA & was hoping that someone, somewhere had already done that work for 3BP. Even if the protocol were 50% of what I would want it to be I could still save time by editing it and enhancing it. I got no offer of help on this from the key scientists involved with 3BP.  My next step is to wait and see if Dr. El Sayed will share his 3BP protocol with me, or not.

I remain interested in a metabolic approach involving 3BP in cancer as I also remain interested in DCA.  Because I have first-hand confirmation of significant efficacy in non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (NHL) with DCA, that particular 2-carbon molecule holds more "water" for me then do the reports in humans on 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Thu Jul 09, 2015 03:07 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 3:53 PM Freyr wrote:

,BP has already had responses in two completely unrelated cancers - hepatocarcinoma and melanoma.
Anyone reading these reports of responses to 3BP needs to read the full PDF and read it carefully, and while doing so understand the concept of TI (therapeutic index).

What any treatment should provide is a high TI coupled with a durable response.  I do not, as an example, consider a 3 month prolongation in survival meaningful.  I would not accept this for myself or any of my patients.  I would not want my patient to have to travel thousands of miles, undergo angiography & intra-arterial administration of any drug & suffer adverse side-effects of hepatic encephalopathy.

This is not comparable to the low cost, and ease & high TI of oral DCA at a dose of 10 mg/kg per day; nor is it comparable to the durable remissions in the 2 NHL patients with the shortest response time being 1 year & counting and the longest being 5 years +.

This is where an education in cancer medicine and hands-on professional care of human beings is a lot different than a lay person reading an abstract or an internet article.

Then again, my interest in DCA came about via a forum involving patient claims of major responses to DCA. And years ago I also followed up on major claims of cancer cures to laetrile but upon review of the 3 best cancer cures with Laetrile could not confirm efficacy. They say the "devil" is in the details.  I never understood that quote.  For me, the essence of something or being the closest to the truth is in the details.  Reality, wow, what a concept.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Thu Jul 09, 2015 04:03 PM
Quote | ReplyDr. Strum

As others before me have noted, that teenage boy treatet with 3BP had what is easily among the top 5 of the most insidious cancers, and no conventional treatment options. He had maybe a month of life at best. Thanks to 3BP he recovered enough to live a full year of pretty normal life, something no cancer hospital in the world would give him without 3BP. Had the treatment been started earlier and he might have recovered fully.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 09, 2015 07:20 PM
Quote | ReplyHere's the best I could think for a relevant P acronym:

POR -- Predictors of Response

What would really help everyone receiving cancer treatment is a good predictor of the response to treatment. This made a large difference in melanoma with the BRAF-mutation positive drugs.

It would also make a large difference for 3-BP. It will not be totally unexpected that some patients will be non-responders to 3-BP. After spending a considerable amount of time and money, cancer patients likely will feel betrayed by their 3-BP treatment. It would be extremely helpful if PORs could be found for 3-BP. If 3-BP were more similar to other drugs in development such research would already be underway.

I read the MDA pdf again and found the genetic results on pages 45-46 concerning IDH2, FH, and SDH to be interesting in regards to POR. What if people have somatic mutations in some of these metabolic genes that could predict response to 3-BP? What if a full genome scan could determine before treatment whether you would be a responder or not?

http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/departments

Things could get very very interesting around here if that were true.

POR would also be of some relevance for DCA treatment.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sbstrum on Thu Jul 09, 2015 07:42 PM
Quote | ReplyOver many years I have learned a lot from patients. There is no question that "beginner's eyes" often see things that those in the field are missing.  However, some points need to be made.

1. That fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma (fHCC) is among the top 5 of the most insidious cancers--where does that come from?  fHCC is considered a rare tumor. A PubMed review of this topic has a number of publications relating to prognosis & after reading through about 20 abstracts I would not put fHCC into dreaded type of cancer. Pancreatic cancer, the 4th most common cancer, has an average survival of 3-6 months.  One series of fHCC had an average survival of 36 mos. Small cell ovarian cancer has an average survival of 3 mos. So I take issue with your first comment.

Point 2, if you read the literature, there are treatments for fHCC. "Herein, we report a 12-year-old girl with metastatic FLHCC with multiple recurrences aggressively treated with **surgery, chemotherapy, and antiangiogenic agents**. **She is in complete remission after 4 years and 2 months after the diagnosis of metastatic FLHCC**."

Point 3: "Thanks to 3BP he recovered enough to live a full year of pretty normal life, something no cancer hospital in the world would give him without 3BP."  If you read the Ko et al paper, his first 3BP treatment via intra-arterial catheter was on 2/26/09.  He died somewhere around Dec 09, 10 months later.  He had some significant time with hepatic coma, ascites, nausea.  I cannot tell from reading the paper (see Public link via Dropbox at: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Ko%2012%20Case%2  ) exact dates. I have annotated this paper, which is what I do with most of the papers I read, as if I were a journal reviewer or using the article for a presentation.

Last statement you made "Had the treatment been started earlier and he might have recovered fully."  That is conjecture. Had the diagnosis been made earlier he might have been a candidate for the kind of treatment that resulted in longer survival as per the article cited above from Okur A, Eser EP, Yilmaz G, et al: Successful multimodal treatment for aggressive metastatic and recurrent fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma in a child. J Pediatr Hematol Oncol 36:e328-32, 2014.

I have spent far too much time on this forum trying to bring real time experience to its members. This has detracted from my time with my patients who consult with me. So I will occasionally glance at posts but I do not feel like I want to butt heads with many of you; and that's what I am feeling now.

I will continue with my interests with DCA AND with 3BP & hope that Dr. El Sayed can share his 3BP protocol with me & we can treat patients with 3BP & document their response.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mahkcots on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:33 PM
Quote | ReplyMar60,

Could I ask where in Germany you will be going.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:20 AM
Quote | ReplyThe case report *highlights* include; he was a child (16), he had fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma - a very rare type of primary liver cancer with no standard of care chemo regimen and had 5 masses that were highly metabolically active, some in the bile duct area and some near the lymph nodes (had it spread to them?) which did effect his spleen (pressure from the tumor on the blood supply to it). The only treatment is surgery, which rarely works, and transplantation, which was out of the question. He was given Sorafenib at varying doses from 200, 400 and then 800 mg/day (this costs £3000 per patient per month in the UK and increases survival by around 6 months in most cases of primary liver cancer). Initial results were encouraging and it appeared to have halted the growth for 2 months (SD?). However, after 6 months, CT scans indicated a renewed expansion of the mass and the drug was halted. He was in a very bad way and a feeding tube was installed and used continuously (24 h). His health was getting worse by the day, it was so bad at one point TACE was performed with Gemcitabine and Cisplatin and then the blood vessels were blocked temporarily by EmboCept. Then they used an infusion of Lipiodol, however there was a lot of cyto-toxicity, so this was the last use of the drugs. 3BP was given twice on the first day by TACE and followed by EmboCept (250mg). The patient didn't have any discomfort during the treatment. The only discomfort was from the second infusion an hour after the first. No other adverse effects were noted during the 4 h recovery period. Due to the large tumor burden it was determined to try and obtain a very high dose of 3BP. The second treatment was scheduled 2 weeks after the first, the third after 4 weeks. After the second application (128 mg) a few hours after the patient started to get disturbed. Four days later, the patient went into a hepatic coma. Blood chemistry revealed elevated levels of AST and ALT, but no far beyond his usual levels. However blood ammonia was high at 120. It seems this was caused by TLS after three 3BP treatments, he recovered. However after 9 treatments he was cured and started to slowly recover. Sadly his liver had inefficient detoxification. The liver couldn't compensate adequately for the rapid destruction of the tumor cells and couldn't detoxify the dead cell debris fast enough. The patient passed away not long after his 18th birthday, so 2 years after his first diagnosis due to overload of liver function. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10863-012-9417-4 Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:30 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 11:20 PM Jcancom wrote:

Here's the best I could think for a relevant P acronym:

POR -- Predictors of Response

What would really help everyone receiving cancer treatment is a good predictor of the response to treatment. This made a large difference in melanoma with the BRAF-mutation positive drugs.

It would also make a large difference for 3-BP. It will not be totally unexpected that some patients will be non-responders to 3-BP. After spending a considerable amount of time and money, cancer patients likely will feel betrayed by their 3-BP treatment. It would be extremely helpful if PORs could be found for 3-BP. If 3-BP were more similar to other drugs in development such research would already be underway.

I read the MDA pdf again and found the genetic results on pages 45-46 concerning IDH2, FH, and SDH to be interesting in regards to POR. What if people have somatic mutations in some of these metabolic genes that could predict response to 3-BP? What if a full genome scan could determine before treatment whether you would be a responder or not?

http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/departments -programs-and-labs/labs/tang-lab/files/x3-oxidative-stress--050113--final-1-.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/departments  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/departments

Things could get very very interesting around here if that were true.

POR would also be of some relevance for DCA treatment.
HK ll is 50-1000 times overexpressed in solid tumor cells. DCA and 3-BP can be combined to kill tumor cells in vitro http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10863-012-9414-7
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:36 AM
Quote | ReplyAEMD/CPI-613 http://www.cornerstonepharma.com/platforms-pipelines/aemd  HexoKinase II Inhibitors http://vtvtherapeutics.com/pipeline/hexokinase-ii-inhibitors  Glutaminase Inhibitor CB-839 http://www.calithera.com/programs/cb-839/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:39 AM
Quote | ReplyI have started to become concerned with the above comments regarding the nature of the liver patient's cancer. I had understood fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma to be a typical solid tumor, much like many other types of tumors. From what I have read this might not be true. Many of these patients will present with large tumor masses, though they can have substantial survival.

The thread might not have fully appreciated the implications of using the response to 3-BP treatment in a very rare and atypical cancer type as the prototype for all other cancers.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jul 10, 2015 01:32 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 10, 2015 4:36 AM dumbcritic wrote:

AEMD/CPI-613 http://www.cornerstonepharma.com/platforms-pipelines/aemd "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cornerstonepharma.com/platforms-pipelines/aemd " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cornerstonepharma.com/platforms-pipelines/aemd  HexoKinase II Inhibitors http://vtvtherapeutics.com/pipeline/hexokinase-ii-inhibitors "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://vtvtherapeutics.com/pipeline/hexokinase-ii-inhibitors  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://vtvtherapeutics.com/pipeline/hexokinase-ii-inhibitors  Glutaminase Inhibitor CB-839 http://www.calithera.com/programs/cb-839/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.calithera.com/programs/cb-839/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.calithera.com/programs/cb-839/
Very interesting links! I will check them carefully latter. Thank you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 10, 2015 07:37 PM
Quote | ReplyMembers of the thread should be appreciative to our new researcher poster, as we have learned some important lessons from him.

For example, our suspicions that a commercial dimension in cancer research appears to have been confirmed. Even though the DCA patients with NHL had sustained responses, there has been no interest in this result in the oncology community.

This could have ominous implications for developing 3-BP. DCA is a GRAS drug that has been on the market for decades. If a drug known to be safe can be remain dormant as a cancer therapy, then what of a cancer treatment that has not went throught the same level of clinical scrutiny?

(It looks as though the genetics of DCA is being worked on.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4455946/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 10, 2015 07:59 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 10, 2015 11:37 PM Jcancom wrote:

Members of the thread should be appreciative to our new researcher poster, as we have learned some important lessons from him.

For example, our suspicions that a commercial dimension in cancer research appears to have been confirmed. Even though the DCA patients with NHL had sustained responses, there has been no interest in this result in the oncology community.

This could have ominous implications for developing 3-BP. DCA is a GRAS drug that has been on the market for decades. If a drug known to be safe can be remain dormant as a cancer therapy, then what of a cancer treatment that has not went throught the same level of clinical scrutiny?

(It looks as though the genetics of DCA is being worked on.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4455946/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4455946/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4455946/
With DCA, what about mitochondrial abnormalities and certain enzymes?. Itsn't it an inhibitor of the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 10, 2015 08:20 PM
Quote | ReplyDoes anyone understand what the url above

s23.postimg.org  is all about?

This forum has very limited features, we might have to migrate to other sites to find the tools we need.

The Endnotes site looks interesting. It appears to be a much better way of white boarding comments on the liver patient's report than just writing it up on the thread.

I have read the liver patient report more carefully. Does anyone know what the fifth line to the right on the first page means "its efficacy as a potent anticancer agent in humans was demonstrated". Are they referring to the liver patient or to an even earlier 3-BP patient?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Ko%2012%20Case%2
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 10, 2015 08:39 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 11, 2015 12:20 AM Jcancom wrote:

Does anyone understand what the url above

s23.postimg.org "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://s23.postimg.org " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">s23.postimg.org  is all about?

This forum has very limited features, we might have to migrate to other sites to find the tools we need.

The Endnotes site looks interesting. It appears to be a much better way of white boarding comments on the liver patient's report than just writing it up on the thread.

I have read the liver patient report more carefully. Does anyone know what the fifth line to the right on the first page means "its efficacy as a potent anticancer agent in humans was demonstrated". Are they referring to the liver patient or to an even earlier 3-BP patient?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Ko%2012%20Case%2 0report%20re%203-BP%20anticancer.pdf"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Ko%2012%20Case%2  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1557367/Ko%2012%20Case%2
A post in reply to one of your's was removed (??), so I've added the JPEG of a screen shot I took of it. I thought the liver cancer patient the first to have 3BP?, but they state *in humans*. So this may suggest others have been given it earlier than him
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 10, 2015 09:21 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, they keep removing all the posts they find objectionable. I do not know how your post could possibly be considered objectionable; it was fairly balanced. I would like to have discussed it further, though it just vanished.

We have reached the disturbing point on this thread in which thoughtful respectful dialogue has been deemed objectionable. When the censors think that truth is too dangerous to leave uncensored, then you must be getting quite near the real truth. If we record all the things they delete perhaps we might be able to deduce what it is the deleters actually think the truth is.

Around here you will need to become a smart critic fast or Big Brother will just push the delete button. You need to embrace doublethink and really believe that it is true.

Such censorship does not instill the sense that the censors are in a position of strength, instead it seems an act of desperation. This thread has definitely been picking up speed lately. We are gaining a power base. I am actually glad that there is some adult supervision; I have no objections to making this thread even better.

I am grateful to this forum for putting up with me. I have been banned on virtually every cancer forum on the net for mentioning 3-BP.

I just feel so badly for the people I have now been preventing from reaching. These people with terminal stage pancreatic, liver ... cancers often give up on all their treatments and just wait for god. It is so sad. If even a few of these people could experience a last minute response with 3-BP (as was shown in the animal models) 3-BP would quickly capture the spotlight.

In some of these patient populations there has virtually never been positive responses. If such responses had ever occurred they would likely have been written up on pubmed.

With 3-BP all you have to do is hit a few homeruns and you've won. The patients that struck out would have done no better with any other treatment they might have pursued.

There now appears to be a well-orchestrated censorship campaign underway. I am not totally sure why.

3-BP might be bogus and the forums want to protect people or 3-BP might not be bogus and the forums do not want to protect people.  However, many forums do not have much difficulty tolerating all sorts of objectionable behaviors.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 10, 2015 09:41 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, I wondered what "in humans" meant.

Possibly the two human liver patients referred to on the Hopkins link from below url. Interesting that 2 primary liver cancer patients with "promising" results from 3-BP was not considered worthy of a journal writeup. Perhaps they do not want to contribute to deforestation.

"Furthermore, we explored the use of 3-BrPA under real-life conditions in two clinical patients of primary liver cancer under the compassionate use protocol showing promising initial results."

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/3%282%29\_Human\_Patient\_
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Sat Jul 11, 2015 07:55 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 11, 2015 1:41 AM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I wondered what "in humans" meant.

Possibly the two human liver patients referred to on the Hopkins link from below url. Interesting that 2 primary liver cancer patients with "promising" results from 3-BP was not considered worthy of a journal writeup. Perhaps they do not want to contribute to deforestation.

"Furthermore, we explored the use of 3-BrPA under real-life conditions in two clinical patients of primary liver cancer under the compassionate use protocol showing promising initial results."

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/3%282%29\_Human\_Patient\_ Reports"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/3%282%29\_Human\_Patient\_  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/3%282%29\_Human\_Patient\_
Dr Ko filed a 108-page lawsuit against Johns Hopkins and four colleagues in June 2005, claiming she was discriminated against and her research was impeded because she is an Asian woman with a successful project. Two of her colleagues that she sued were Dr. Chi Dang, vice dean for research and Dr. Jean-Francoise Geschwind. According to Ko's complaint, Dang had started conducting his own research using it after learning about the success of the rabbit study. She also alleges that Dang's position at the university, as well as his control of lab space, gave him an unfair advantage in seeking grants and other funding. Also it seems Dr Geschwind went behind her back too. In her suit, Ko says that both Dang and Geschwind tried to exploit her research to further their own careers. She also claims that both men are continuing their own research using her discoveries. In addition, she says that Johns Hopkins misled her into thinking the university would continue to fund her research if she provided certain information about how it works. It could also eliminate the need for other expensive treatments such as chemotherapy, radiation and other *targeted* drugs. So it could be something to do with this?.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:48 AM
Quote | Reply"Following 3BP’s discovery as a novel anticancer agent in vitro in the Year 2000 (Published in Ko et al. Can Lett 173:83–91,2001), and also as a highly effective and rapid anticancer agent in vivo shortly thereafter (Ko et al. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 324:269–275,2004), its efficacy as a potent anticancer agent in humans was demonstrated."

This is a very interesting sentence for the thread to contemplate.

In terms of the back story of 3-BP, it would be best to stay away from such sprawling  melodrama. The lives of millions of cancer patients are involved, so we should try to stick with the science. There are now so many layers of intrigue involved with all the backroom dealing that it is unlikely that we will be able to make any sense of it.

One of the lingering questions for me is: Are there any others? Hopkins has noted 2 primary liver cancer patients treated with 3-BP "showing promising initial results" on their website. Could this "compassionate use" program have included more such patients? Are the details of such "compassionate use" programs accessible through a Freedom of Information request?

I have noted in a post months ago that I found it very interesting that the liver patient received an immediate bolus TACE dose of 3-BP after the ethics committee aproved 3-BP treatment and another bolus TACE dose later on the first day for a total of 250 mg of 3-BP. If I were the doctor involved in the care of the liver patient there is no way that I would have done that (even given the extremely serious condition of the patient) without pre-knowledge that this was safe. 3-BP is a dangerous drug if administered at the wrong dosage. It would not have been clear to me that a 250 mg 3-BP TACE total dose on the first treatment day would be safe. I infer from their behavior that they did know it was safe to do this and this knowledge had been acquired through other patients treated with 3-BP. The only question is: Were there more than the two noted by Hopkins?

It is also worth pointing out that the German medical legal system is obviously quite different from that of America and many other nations. In 2008 when contact was made to Hopkins about possibly treating the liver patient with 3-BP there had only been animal reports with 3-BP. This would have been the only solid evidence that could be presented in favor of using 3-BP. Everything 3else would just be conjecture. These animal reports apparently were sufficient for 3-BP treatment to begin.

This is the exact point that has bothered me for long. Why aren't terminal cancer patients allowed this freedom in other places besides Germany? As members of this thread know, almost any professional that assisted in any way with obtaining 3-BP would lose their right to practice. Removing the democratic process from the decisions that terminally ill patients and their medical team need to make would remove the tyranny of democracy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Mon Jul 13, 2015 07:25 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 11, 2015 2:48 PM Jcancom wrote:

"Following 3BP’s discovery as a novel anticancer agent in vitro in the Year 2000 (Published in Ko et al. Can Lett 173:83–91,2001), and also as a highly effective and rapid anticancer agent in vivo shortly thereafter (Ko et al. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 324:269–275,2004), its efficacy as a potent anticancer agent in humans was demonstrated."

This is a very interesting sentence for the thread to contemplate.

In terms of the back story of 3-BP, it would be best to stay away from such sprawling  melodrama. The lives of millions of cancer patients are involved, so we should try to stick with the science. There are now so many layers of intrigue involved with all the backroom dealing that it is unlikely that we will be able to make any sense of it.

One of the lingering questions for me is: Are there any others? Hopkins has noted 2 primary liver cancer patients treated with 3-BP "showing promising initial results" on their website. Could this "compassionate use" program have included more such patients? Are the details of such "compassionate use" programs accessible through a Freedom of Information request?

I have noted in a post months ago that I found it very interesting that the liver patient received an immediate bolus TACE dose of 3-BP after the ethics committee aproved 3-BP treatment and another bolus TACE dose later on the first day for a total of 250 mg of 3-BP. If I were the doctor involved in the care of the liver patient there is no way that I would have done that (even given the extremely serious condition of the patient) without pre-knowledge that this was safe. 3-BP is a dangerous drug if administered at the wrong dosage. It would not have been clear to me that a 250 mg 3-BP TACE total dose on the first treatment day would be safe. I infer from their behavior that they did know it was safe to do this and this knowledge had been acquired through other patients treated with 3-BP. The only question is: Were there more than the two noted by Hopkins?

It is also worth pointing out that the German medical legal system is obviously quite different from that of America and many other nations. In 2008 when contact was made to Hopkins about possibly treating the liver patient with 3-BP there had only been animal reports with 3-BP. This would have been the only solid evidence that could be presented in favor of using 3-BP. Everything 3else would just be conjecture. These animal reports apparently were sufficient for 3-BP treatment to begin.

This is the exact point that has bothered me for long. Why aren't terminal cancer patients allowed this freedom in other places besides Germany? As members of this thread know, almost any professional that assisted in any way with obtaining 3-BP would lose their right to practice. Removing the democratic process from the decisions that terminally ill patients and their medical team need to make would remove the tyranny of democracy.
I haven't been able to find, nor read the full 108 page lawsuit. However for me personally it seems unlikely she would sue because she was a woman with a successful drug and didn't get grants/lab space ect. More likely would be that the four doctors went behind her back and used the drug in humans. So this may be why the case reports have never been published?. The amount of 3BP used for the child with liver cancer could have either been based on these patients, or they adjusted the dose based on his weight and how they would deliver it. He also had five very active and large tumors. They used 125 mg twice the first time, and less the second or third time, only 128 mg. So it does seem some 'guess work' was involved.

I'm not sure how *compassionate use* programs work legally in the US. But it would seem likely that there would be an agreement between a pharma company/university and one hospital. Also an ethics committee would have to approve it at the hospital. So unless a regulatory government body was involved in the process then a FOI request may be off the cards.

In Germany the medical system has a lot to do with their history and also the fact the green party came to power and changed a number of laws in regards to natural and alternative treatments. It seems the doctor treating their patient in Germany is very free in regards to what treatments they can give. In other words if they thinks it best for the patient then they can give it. I'm sure there are legal protections build-in, along with patient consent. However they are much freer than most countries
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:07 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 09, 2015 4:49 PM mar60 wrote:

lI will probably start this treatment in september. .in Germany..i got estrogen postitive breastcancer with mets in my bones liver and near my lungs
Hi mar60,

I have been following 3 bp and 2 deoxy glucose. The combination with EGCG and BSO.

Understand you have found a doctor and someone who has this protocol.  Can you please provide information on the duration of the protocol and where you get the medication from. My mum is in very similar situation to yours. ER/PR +ve left breast cancer with mets in bones, lungs, right breast and left arm.

We have tried methyl glyoxol, hemp oil, tibetan herbs, beta glucans, diet, etc. This has reduced the growth but at this stage we need something as aggressive as 3BP and 2 DG.

Can you please provide information, we are running out of time. I am based in UK and mum is in India. To get the meds and an integrative oncologist is a challenge. Please pm me and sharing our similar situation and attention to 3 BP might be useful?

Regards,

Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:09 PM
Quote | ReplyAn Indian doctor has posted to this thread expressing an interest in treating patients in India.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:10 PM
Quote | ReplyWelcome new poster. I hope we have been of some help to you and hope we can continue to be.

Best Wishes.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:17 PM
Quote | ReplyYes Dr Jagdish Donki is part of our team of Integrative oncologists, he is keen to help us but we need a proper protocol of what has been tried, how it has been administered.

The reason to combine EGCG, etc due to the side effects. The issue is also of how 3 bp is administered, arterially as per DR Ko but appears some have used in IV and aerosol form orally. From what I understand it has a small life and arterially is the best way, may be wrong but just seems a wonder drug has been kept tight under the lid for so long.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 13, 2015 9:17 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Yes Dr Jagdish Donki is part of our team of Integrative oncologists, he is keen to help us but we need a proper protocol of what has been tried, how it has been administered.

The reason to combine EGCG, etc due to the side effects. The issue is also of how 3 bp is administered, arterially as per DR Ko but appears some have used in IV and aerosol form orally. From what I understand it has a small life and arterially is the best way, may be wrong but just seems a wonder drug has been kept tight under the lid for so long.
I wish I could get someone to administer it arterially via TACE. Thast would be a blessing. I just wanted to welcome you and to wish your mother and you the very best.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 13, 2015 9:34 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:17 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Yes Dr Jagdish Donki is part of our team of Integrative oncologists, he is keen to help us but we need a proper protocol of what has been tried, how it has been administered.

The reason to combine EGCG, etc due to the side effects. The issue is also of how 3 bp is administered, arterially as per DR Ko but appears some have used in IV and aerosol form orally. From what I understand it has a small life and arterially is the best way, may be wrong but just seems a wonder drug has been kept tight under the lid for so long.
I wish I could get someone to administer it arterially via TACE. Thast would be a blessing. I just wanted to welcome you and to wish your mother and you the very best.
Big news: Prof Vogl is still doing the chemoembolisation with 3BP: http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 13, 2015 05:51 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 13, 2015 9:42 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:34 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:17 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Yes Dr Jagdish Donki is part of our team of Integrative oncologists, he is keen to help us but we need a proper protocol of what has been tried, how it has been administered.

The reason to combine EGCG, etc due to the side effects. The issue is also of how 3 bp is administered, arterially as per DR Ko but appears some have used in IV and aerosol form orally. From what I understand it has a small life and arterially is the best way, may be wrong but just seems a wonder drug has been kept tight under the lid for so long.
I wish I could get someone to administer it arterially via TACE. Thast would be a blessing. I just wanted to welcome you and to wish your mother and you the very best.
Big news: Prof Vogl is still doing the chemoembolisation with 3BP: http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and- beef-bone-soup.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-
The problem I guess is that my guy's has metastasized all over. That would be a lot of TACE!
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 06:07 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is very interesting.

Was that Sydney, Australia?

3BP TACE? Would like to have some more patient details.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 06:07 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 13, 2015 9:51 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:42 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:34 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 13, 2015 9:17 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Yes Dr Jagdish Donki is part of our team of Integrative oncologists, he is keen to help us but we need a proper protocol of what has been tried, how it has been administered.

The reason to combine EGCG, etc due to the side effects. The issue is also of how 3 bp is administered, arterially as per DR Ko but appears some have used in IV and aerosol form orally. From what I understand it has a small life and arterially is the best way, may be wrong but just seems a wonder drug has been kept tight under the lid for so long.
I wish I could get someone to administer it arterially via TACE. Thast would be a blessing. I just wanted to welcome you and to wish your mother and you the very best.
Big news: Prof Vogl is still doing the chemoembolisation with 3BP: http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and- "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and- "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and- "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and-  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://petertrayhurn.blogspot.nl/2015/06/golden-tumeric-and- "" 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The problem I guess is that my guy's has metastasized all over. That would be a lot of TACE!
That is true. A systemic treatment (or a combination) is required.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 06:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 13, 2015 10:07 PM Jcancom wrote:

That is very interesting.

Was that Sydney, Australia?

3BP TACE? Would like to have some more patient details.
No, he is from Australia but is traeted in Germany at various clinics including at Prof Vogl where he received the 3BP via TACE.

You could contact him and ask for details. He knows some more patients treatde by Vogl with 3BP via TACE.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 07:01 PM
Quote | ReplyEveryone is talking protocol with 3BP. Is that where we are at now? Almost everything is out in the open except the protocol.

Would that be enough intellectual property to keep this from staying a premium treatment and not going mainstream? Are there any other treatment examples where the only aspect not widely known was the protocol?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 08:29 PM
Quote | ReplyAmazing how versatile 3BP appears to be. Patents have been filed for anti-infective uses and now an anti-seizure patent(?).

http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents200/Yr2010/Sept2010/091410/7

Wonder if they could put low doses of it in toothpaste or a mouthwash.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 08:37 PM
Quote | ReplyMight be time to pull out your gene chip results. There will  probably be some connection of genetics to response to 3BP treatment. It would be very helpful if we could use genetics to help select for those who would be especially good responders, though this might be beyond our ability to work out with small patient numbers.

Consider for example:

https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/publication/5039085
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 08:57 PM
Quote | ReplyOK just to get the game started: I have pulled up an exome file. I am looking at quite a rare mutation in the SLC16A1 gene (rs144301005). dbsnp is calling the frequency as A=0.0004 (only 2 people had this mutation in their database).

Mutation Taster is calling it a known polymorphism, not to worry.

The SLC16A1 is also known as thesolute carrier family 16 (monocarboxylate transporter), member 1. This is what 3BP uses to get into cancer cells. Perhaps if there were a functional somatic mutation, 3BP might not be able to get into the cancer cells. I am not entirely sure if you could be viable if you did not have functioning MCT-1 gene.

This is just an example of how genetics and 3BP treatment effectiveness might be related. There are a substantial number of metabolic genes that might be useful to consider in such an analysis.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 09:21 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is what OMIM has to say about this:

"In a genomewide haploid genetics screen to identify resistance mechanisms to 3-bromopyruvate (3-BrPA), a cancer drug candidate that inhibits glycolysis, Birsoy et al. (2013)identified the SLC16A1 gene product, MCT1, as the main determinant of 3-BrPA sensitivity. MCT1 is necessary and sufficient for 3-BrPA uptake by cancer cells. Breast cancer cell lines with high amounts of MCT1 protein were sensitive to 3-BrPA, whereas those with low or no MCT1 concentration were resistant to even high concentrations of 3-BrPA."  So, yes knowing your SLC16A1 gene sequence would probably be a good idea. An exome scan could do it. However, any unique cancer mutations might override the somatic genotype.

http://omim.org/entry/600682
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:10 PM
Quote | ReplyAnd this is quite interesting:

"The glycolysis inhibitor3-bromopyruvatepreferentially suppressed the growth of cells with KRAS or BRAF mutations"

What might happen if you did a combination BRAF drug with 3BP?

http://omim.org/entry/138140
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 03:17 AM
Quote | ReplyIf there is glycolisis there is lalctic acid exported. If there is lactic acid exported, MCT1 is there. The amplitude of MCT1 expression is correlated with glucose avidity. As a result, the intensity of glucose absorption visible in PET-CT would inidicate the potential of 3BP effectivness withouth the need of a genetic analysis.
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