Google Playtime 2019

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近日，Google Playtime 2019在深圳举办。
Recently, Google Playtime 2019 was held in Shenzhen.

会上，Google Play 大中华区商务拓展负责人张雷以“保护安卓生态”为主题展开演讲，带出了谷歌明年重点发力的方向，包括对订阅违规操作的整治、对儿童应用安全的进一步保障等。
During the event, Zhang Lei, the Head of Business Development for Google Play in Greater China, delivered a keynote speech on the theme of "Protecting the Android Ecosystem." He highlighted Google's key focuses for the next year, which include cracking down on subscription violations and further enhancing the safety of children's applications.

在圆桌访谈环节，谷歌邀请了米哈游、海彼、金山办公、风眼四位开发者代表，并由 Google Play 中国大陆地区商业拓展负责人赵伊江主持，共同就产品的选择、延续和未来三个方面进行交流和探讨。
In the roundtable interview session, Google invited representatives from four developers: miHoYo, Habby, Kingsoft Office, and EyeWind. The session was hosted by Zhao Yijiang, the Head of Business Development for Google Play in mainland China. They collectively discussed and exchanged ideas regarding product selection, continuity, and the future.

其中，米哈游 CEO 刘伟与海彼 CEO 王嗣恩的到场，无疑是游戏业最为关注的焦点。通过本次交流，我们能够了解到他们的一些产品哲学，以及藏在背后的爆款逻辑。
The presence of miHoYo [President] Liu Wei and Habby CEO Wang Si'en, undoubtedly drew the most attention from the gaming industry. Through this exchange, we gained insights into their product philosophies and the logic behind their blockbuster successes.

以下为手游那点事整理的访谈内容，有部分删节：
The following is a summary of the interview content by "The World of Mobile Games," with some parts edited for brevity.

## Selection

> “这有点颠覆了我的想法，没想到这种细节的处理，能够让一个用户留很长的时间。”
> "This kind of attention to detail is quite surprising, I never expected it would keep a user engaged for such a long time."
>
>

**赵伊江：最近你们发了一款新游《企鹅岛》，它是韩国独立开发者的游戏。我特别想了解，你们是怎么选择合作伙伴的？
Zhao Yijiang: Recently, you released a new game called *Penguin Isle*, which is developed by an independent Korean developer. I'm particularly interested to know, how do you choose your partners to collaborate with?**

王嗣恩：我想我们签下《企鹅岛》，在韩国可能会被传为一个佳话。因为游戏拿到手之后，没有看数据就签下来了，而且是用非常高价格去签的。
Wang Si'en: I believe signing *Penguin Isle* might become a success story in Korea. When we got the game, we decided to sign it without looking at the data, and we offered a very high price for the partnership.

为什么有这么大的信心？因为玩了一次之后，我们就被镇住了。
Why did we have such great confidence? Because after playing it once, we were blown away.

一般这类挂机游戏，很多人只重视数值，但《企鹅岛》不仅美术好，细节做得也好，好到让你觉得出奇。
Normally, many idle games focus solely on numbers, but *Penguin Isle* not only has great artwork but also pays exceptional attention to details, to the extent that it surprises you.

比如说它一只企鹅就有 40 多个动作。这犯得着吗？一般来说犯不着。
For example, each penguin in the game has over 40 different actions. Is it necessary? Generally, it wouldn't be considered necessary.

你做一个游戏，一只企鹅两三个动作就差不多了。但是当你养了 100 只企鹅，它们在不同时间段有不同的动作，那么你的情感代入和沉浸感是完全不一样的。
When you create a game, having two or three actions for a penguin would be sufficient. However, when you have 100 penguins, each displaying different actions at different times, the emotional connection and immersion become entirely different.

当时我们很多同事只玩了大概两个小时，就被打动了。
Many of our colleagues were deeply impressed after playing for only about two hours.

**赵伊江：所以这实际上是一次偏感性的决定？我以为是偏理性的，因为产品有非常好的留存。
Zhao Yijiang: So, this was actually a more emotional decision? I thought it was a more rational one since the product has excellent user retention.**

王嗣恩：对。我觉得数据这么好，跟这个事情非常有关系。
Wang Si'en: Yes. I think the outstanding data is closely related to this aspect.

这有点颠覆了我的想法。过去我会觉得，有关游戏机制和系统数值的设计，对于数据的拉动是最重要的。但没想到这种细节的处理，能够让一个用户留很长的时间。
This has somewhat overturned my previous thinking. In the past, I believed that the design of game mechanics and system values played the most crucial role in driving data. But I never expected that attention to such details could keep a user engaged for a long time.

《企鹅岛》的留存数据非常好，是在我见过里面最好的。
The user retention data for *Penguin Island* is exceptional, the best I have ever seen.

> “在做一款开放世界游戏的时候，我们是很无知的。”
> "We were quite ignorant when creating an open-world game."
>
>

**赵伊江：在《崩坏3》之后，业界对你们的期望是做出《崩坏4》，但你们却做了《原神》。这是一次投入非常大的尝试，团队目前有400人，已经做了两年半。当时为什么会选择这个方向？
Zhao Yijiang: After *Honkai Impact 3rd*, the industry's expectation for you was to create *Honkai Impact 4th*, but instead, you developed *Genshin Impact*. This was a significant and ambitious undertaking, with a team of 400 people working on it for two and a half years. Why did you choose this direction?**

刘伟：2011年，我跟另外两位大学同学一起创业。我们做游戏的初衷，是发自内心地热爱 ACG 游戏。
Liu Wei: In 2011, I started this venture with two other college classmates. Our initial motivation for making games came from a genuine love for ACG games.

一直以来，我们研发都有一个非常朴素的理念：something new、something exciting、something out of imagination。
Throughout our development process, we have always adhered to a simple philosophy: "Something New, Something Exciting, Something Out of Imagination."

每次做核心产品，我们都会想说做什么样的游戏，才能够超出用户的预期。
Whenever we work on a core product, we always ask ourselves what kind of game we can create that would surpass users' expectations.

做《崩坏3》的时候，我们其实非常简单，因为我跟我的合伙人都很喜欢玩主机游戏。当时有两款，一款是《猎天使魔女》，一款是《鬼泣》。
When we were developing *Honkai Impact 3rd*, it was quite straightforward because my partner and I were both big fans of console games. There were two specific titles, one was *Bayonetta*, and the other was *Devil May Cry*.

所以我们就想，哪一天能在手机上也玩到主机品质的游戏？
We thought, wouldn't it be great if one day we could play console-quality games on our mobile phones?

**赵伊江：为什么是手机，而不是一开始就在PC或者其它平台上？
Zhao Yijiang: Why did you choose mobile instead of starting on PC or other platforms?**

刘伟：因为在PC和主机上推出高品质的3D动作游戏，大家会觉得是一件很正常的事情。
Liu Wei: Releasing high-quality 3D action games on PC and consoles is something people consider normal.

但我们去看自己，包括《崩坏》的用户，他们不会有多少人去买主机，也不会有人说每天到晚在PC上玩游戏，国内其实也没有掌机。
But when we looked at ourselves and even the users of *Honkai*, not many of them would buy consoles, and there weren't many who would say they play games on PC all day long. Moreover, handheld gaming devices weren't prevalent in China either.

在这种情况下，大家都会把手机作为一个非常自然的、随时可以拿出来玩高品质游戏的平台。
In this scenario, everyone naturally considers their mobile phones as a platform where they can easily play high-quality games at any time.

所以我们就尝试，把一些我们认为很好的游戏体验带到手机上。
So, we decided to give it a try and bring some of the exceptional gaming experiences we believed in to the mobile platform.

2016年9月，《崩坏3》上线并取得一定成绩之后。在接下来半年，我们一直在想下一款产品应该做成什么样子。
After achieving a certain level of success with *Honkai Impact 3rd*, in September 2016, we began contemplating what the next product should be like in the following six months.

整个2017年上半年我们都非常焦灼，到底做什么样的产品才会让我们自己觉得 exciting、觉得 out of imagination。
Throughout the first half of 2017, we felt a great sense of urgency, trying to figure out what kind of product would excite us and go "put of imagination."

这就又回到了我们的初心，就是我们自己想玩什么东西。
This brought us back to our original intentions, which were to create something that we ourselves wanted to play.

那段时间，我们玩最多的是主机的开放世界游戏，不管是 GTA、《巫师3》还是《上古卷轴》，所带来的都是非常宏大的世界观和超出预期的探索体验。
During that period, we played a lot of open-world games on consoles, such as *Grand Theft Auto*, *The Witcher 3*, and *The Elder Scrolls*, which offered grand worldviews and exploration experiences that surpassed expectations.

我们想如果有一天，有机会在手机上玩到这种游戏，大家也一定会觉得超出预期。那么既然我们自己想玩这样的游戏，而且又愿意去做这样的游戏，我们就去做吧。
We thought that if we had the opportunity to play such games on mobile devices, it would undoubtedly exceed our expectations. So, since we wanted to play this kind of game ourselves and were willing to make it, we decided to go for it.

就是抱着这样一个非常简单的想法，我们从2017年开始做这个项目。但后来我们才发现，之前想的都太天真了。
With this simple idea in mind, we started working on this project in 2017. However, later on, we realized that our previous thoughts were too naive.

**赵伊江：你们遇到了哪些出乎预料的困难？后来是怎么处理这些问题的？
Zhao Yijiang: What unexpected challenges did you encounter? How did you deal with them later on?**

刘伟：过去两年半，我们做这款新产品的过程是非常痛苦的。
Liu Wei: Over the past two and a half years, the process of developing this new product has been extremely painful.

《崩坏3》上线的时候，整支研发团队大概60人。那么我想翻一倍，100多人或者150人，应该就有机会把《原神》做出来了吧？
When *Honkai Impact 3rd* was launched, the entire development team consisted of about 60 people. So, I thought that if we doubled the team to 100 or 150 people, we might be able to create *Genshin Impact*, right?

但是随着开始做这款产品，包括逐步接触开放世界的游戏设计，我发现我们就像陷入了一个泥潭，越陷越深。目前《原神》的团队已经到了400多人，完全超出我的预期。
However, as we started working on this project and delved into the design of an open-world game, I realized that we were like sinking into a quagmire, the deeper we went, the harder it was to get out. Currently, the *Genshin Impact* team has grown to over 400 people, completely surpassing my expectations.

**赵伊江：至少人员上out of imagination了？
Zhao Yijiang: At least the number of personnel went "out of imagination," right?**

刘伟：对（笑～）。所以说对人数的挑战非常大，这是第一个。
Liu Wei: Yes, (laughs). So, the challenge with the team size is huge, that's the first one.

然后第二个你会发现，欧美那些能做商业品质开放式的studio，是全世界最优秀的。
And the second thing you'll find is that the Western studios that can create high-quality open-world games are the world's best.

他们有的制作人在行业工作了30年以上，团队间合作了10年、20年。他们有的那些工具、经验和对游戏的理解，是我们远不能比的。
Some of their producers have been working in the industry for over 30 years, and teams have been collaborating for 10 or 20 years. Their tools, experience, and understanding of games are beyond comparison to ours.

所以在做一款开放世界游戏的时候，我们基本上是很无知的。
So, when it comes to making an open-world game, we are basically very ignorant.

**赵伊江：可以举个具体的例子吗？
Zhao Yijiang: Could you give a specific example?**

刘伟：最简单的例子，测BUG这件事情。
Liu Wei: The simplest example is bug testing.

以前我们做游戏的时候，策划美术程序做出来，然后让QA测，好了就ok。
In the past, when we made games, the designers, artists, and programmers would create the content, and then we would let QA (Quality Assurance) test it. If everything was fine, then it was okay.

但现在完全不是这样子。因为整个开放世界，比如说做地形系统的同学，他做了一点点的优化改动，就会发现上面所有东西都乱掉了。
But now, it's entirely different. Because in an open-world game, for example, if someone working on the terrain system makes a small optimization change, everything on top of it might become chaotic.

所以总会有很多人在讲，我这个东西怎么又坏掉了？谁又把我东西做坏了？团队一天到晚都在吵架，QA每天都被大家逼疯。
So, there are always people saying, "Why did my thing break again? Who messed up my work?" The team argues all day long, and QA is driven crazy every day.

过去这两年半，我们就是在这样一种非常 struggle的情况下往前走，直到现在依然非常 struggle。
Over the past two and a half years, we have been moving forward in such a struggle, and even now, it's still a huge struggle.

**赵伊江：但好的结果是明年可以发了对吧？
Zhao Yijiang: But the good result is that it can be released next year, right?**

刘伟：希望明年可以发。
Liu Wei: We hope to release it next year.

**赵伊江：如果大家到时候想体验《原神》，先要把手机清一清，因为他们的包一开始是7个G。
Zhao Yijiang: If everyone wants to experience *Genshin Impact* at that time, they'll have to clear up some space on their phones because the initial package is 7 GB.**

刘伟：这也是一个非常大的问题，所以很希望Google Play能给我们大力支持。
Liu Wei: That's also a significant issue, so we really hope that Google Play can provide us with strong support.

## Continuation

> “所有产品上线后，它的投入只会增大，不会减少。”
> "After all products are launched, the investment in them will only increase, not decrease."
>
>

**赵伊江：《崩坏3》上线三年仍保持非常强的生命力，《崩坏2》上线6年DAU还在上涨。这看起来是你们产品哲学的一部分，可以分享一些思路吗？
Zhao Yijiang: *Honkai Impact 3rd* has maintained a strong vitality even after three years since its launch, and *Houkai Gakuen 2* has been live for six years with its DAU still increasing. It seems to be part of your product philosophy. Could you share some insights?**

刘伟：我们所有产品都会坚持非常长线的策略。《崩坏3》已经三周年了，过去三年不管是国内还是海外都在增长。不仅是收入的增长，同时也是 DAU 的增长。
Liu Wei: We adhere to a long-term strategy for all our products. *Honkai Impact 3rd* has already reached its third anniversary, and in the past three years, it has experienced continuous growth both in the domestic and international markets. It's not just revenue growth but also an increase in daily active users (DAU).

《崩坏学园2》今年是第六年。它除了在 2016 年底《崩坏3》推出的时候出现下滑之外，其它时间都是连续稳定增长的。
*Houkai Gakuen 2* is in its sixth year this year. Except for a decline at the end of 2016 when *Honkai Impact 3rd* was launched, it has shown consistent and steady growth.

对我们来说，因为做的产品非常少，所以会一直投入大量的人力研发资源做后续开发。我们看待产品更新不像传统的游戏公司，我们更愿意把产品看做是一个内容，那么每次更新其实就像美剧一样。
For us, as we create very few products, we continue to invest significant human resources in ongoing development. We view product updates not like traditional game companies but more like delivering new content, just like episodes of a TV show.

比如说每隔一个半月都会更新一集内容，这一集里面会包含新的故事、新的英雄、新的玩法，本质上跟做美剧几乎没有区别。
For example, we update our games every one and a half months, with each update containing new stories, new heroes, and new gameplay. Essentially, it's similar to producing TV series.

我们过去几年一直都这样，用美剧的更新思路在更新游戏，持续推出高质量的、新颖的、有趣的内容。所有产品上线后，它的投入只会增大，不会减少。
We have been following this approach for the past few years, updating games with the mindset of TV show episodes, continually delivering high-quality, innovative, and engaging content. After all products are launched, the investment in them will only increase, not decrease.

> "We were very generous in the early stages, but now we can't change it back."
> “我们前期非常慷慨，但现在也改不回来了。”
>
>

**赵伊江：《弓箭传说》之所以非常特别，在于我们很少会看到一款产品能同时在免费榜和畅销榜名列前茅。这款游戏极易上手、定位中度，未来你们将通过什么方式来保证长线表现？
Zhao Yijiang: *Archero* is very special in that we rarely see a product ranking high on both the free and top-grossing charts simultaneously. This game is easy to pick up and targets the mid-core players. How do you plan to ensure its long-term performance?**

王嗣恩：其实当初上线的只是个半成品，这跟我们的资金状况相关。如果再推迟半年，可能我就拿不到那笔钱了。
Wang Si'en: Actually, when we first launched it, it was only a semi-finished product, and that was related to our financial situation. If we had delayed it for another six months, I might not have received the funding.

**赵伊江：所以现在你告诉我，我刚才夸了半天，你们只是推出了一个半成品，就拿到了全球的免费榜和收入榜前列，是吧？
Zhao Yijiang: So you're telling me that after all the praises I just gave, you guys released only a semi-finished product and still managed to rank high on the global free and top-grossing charts, right?**

王嗣恩：（笑～）这款游戏会遇到一个问题，就是衰减得很快。但不是因为它简单，而是它作为我们第一款尝试从休闲到中度去做系统的产品，在设计上是比较大胆的。
Wang Si'en: (Laughs) This game will encounter one problem, which is rapid attenuation. However, it's not because it's simple; rather, it's because, as our first attempt to create a mid-core product from casual games, we took some bold design choices.

特别是前期，我们释放了过多的技能和关卡。
Especially in the early stages, we released too many skills and levels.

**赵伊江：所以说前期内容太多了吗？
Zhao Yijiang: So, the early content was too abundant?**

王嗣恩：第1关和第2关其实已经非常丰富了。
Wang Si'en: The first and second levels were already very rich.

这是个非常大的问题，因为它前期非常非常爽，导致曲线调整有问题，就是中长期不太好，包括后面的变化没有前面那么多。
This is a significant problem because the early stages were very exciting, which led to issues with adjusting the game's progression. It didn't work as well in the medium to long term, and there weren't as many changes as in the early stages.

因为要做这么多好的技能，好的那种怪物让游戏打起来更有趣，其实是要花很多精力的。
Creating so many good skills and interesting monsters to make the game more enjoyable required a lot of effort.

**赵伊江：这也是你们前期留存高的原因？
Zhao Yijiang: Is that also why your early retention rate was high?**

王嗣恩：其实不用那么丰富，它也有那么高的留存，因为市面上没有。
Wang Si'en: In fact, it didn't need to be so abundant, and it would still have had high retention rates because there wasn't anything similar on the market.

所以说，我们当初设计得非常慷慨，当然现在也改不回来了。因为你不可能说更新一个版本，就把节奏放缓一点，这是不行的。
So, initially, we designed it very generously, and of course, we can't change it now. You can't slow down the pace in an update; that wouldn't work.

这是我们第一次尝试，所以就有这么一个教训。包括系统也没有做完善，例如Battle Pass。
This was our first attempt, so there's a lesson to be learned from it. Even the systems weren't well-implemented, such as the Battle Pass.

**赵伊江：我印象很深刻的是，你们连10连抽都没有。
Zhao Yijiang: I remember vividly that you didn't even have a ten-pull option.**

王嗣恩：这个是在很后面才做的，还有现在的一键合成也是。
Wang Si'en: We added that later, and the one-button synthesis as well.

如果说我们要把规划的部分全部做完，估计到今年这个时候才能发。但其实现在也还没有做完，包括我们规划的多人合作模式。
If we had to complete all the planned parts, it probably wouldn't be ready until around this time of the year. But even now, it's not entirely finished, including the multiplayer cooperative mode that we planned.

**赵伊江：我都听你说半年了。
Zhao Yijiang: I've been hearing you talk about it for half a year.**

王嗣恩：因为他们这个团队是真的小，刚开始就只有3个人，后来我们发行方给了5个人，一共8个人，这个项目做了一年半。
Wang Si'en: Because this team is really small. We started with only three people, and later, the publisher provided five more, making a total of eight people. We have been working on this project for a year and a half.

我们原先的思路，第一是把它做完，第二是我们也会有像米哈游所说的美剧模式的更新。
Our original plan was to complete the game first, and secondly, we would have updates similar to what miHoYo mentioned, following the TV series model.

另外，现在的游戏难度曲线也有问题。因为我们的内容不够，必然就要有一些门槛。你看像3关、第5关、第7 关是特别卡的。
Also, the game's difficulty curve is problematic now. Since our content is not sufficient, there inevitably has to be some level of difficulty. For example, levels 3, 5, and 7 are particularly challenging.

有人会说你是不是想卡付费？其实不是，就是没有内容。所以现在每过一个多月更新一个新的关卡，我们都会把前面的关卡难度调低。
Some people may think that we intentionally made it difficult to push players to pay, but that's not the case; it's simply because of the lack of content. So now, every month and a half, when we release a new level, we lower the difficulty of the previous levels.

**赵伊江：如果你们玩《弓箭传说》卡关流失了，可以隔段时间回去再试一下。前阵子我试过，一下就过了，非常明显。并不是我能力提升了，是他把难度调低了。（笑～）所以你们是意识到了早期的一些问题，正在持续进行调整？
Zhao Yijiang: If players get stuck and lose interest in *Archero*, they can come back and try again after some time. I tried it a while ago, and suddenly, I passed the level that was challenging before. It was quite obvious that you had adjusted the difficulty. (Laughs) So, you are aware of some of the early issues and are continuously making adjustments?**

王嗣恩：对，现在从半成品到成品估计还要半年。
Wang Si'en: Yes, from the semi-finished product to the finished product, it will probably take another six months.

## Future

> “这是颗种子，没有它你就不能施肥浇水。”
> "This is a seed; without it, you can't fertilize and water."
>
>

**赵伊江：大家可能不知道，《弓箭传说》实际上是海彼跟另外一个 studio 的合作产品，《企鹅岛》也是。你给这两款产品带来的价值是一样的吗？
Zhao Yijiang: People may not know that *Archero* is actually a collaborative product between Haibi and another studio, just like *Penguin Isle*. Did you bring the same value to both of these games?**

王嗣恩：两款游戏的分成比例是一样，但是付出的方式完全不一样。
Wang Si'en: The revenue sharing ratio for both games is the same, but the ways we contributed are entirely different.

像《弓箭传说》完全是由我们来孵化，只是说在股权上并不需要去控制它。如果当时说要控制它，可能也能谈下来，但我们认为在体系外更有利于创新。
For *Archero*, we entirely incubated it, though we didn't need to control its equity. If we wanted to control it at that time, it might have been negotiable, but we believed that it would be more conducive to innovation outside of our system.

其实我们付出的成本代价是非常大的，包括它的服务端开发，完全就是我们做的，他那就一个程序员。
In reality, the cost and effort we put in were very significant, including the development of its server, which was entirely done by us, and they had only one programmer.

**赵伊江：所以《弓箭传说》是深度参与了。
Zhao Yijiang: So, you were deeply involved in *Archero*.**

王嗣恩：对。但我们也看到，只要有这个制作人在，就算其他的人全部我给，我还是能给他更高的工资。
Wang Si'en: Yes. But we also saw that as long as the producer was there, even if I provided all the other people, I would still be willing to offer him a higher salary.

因为这是颗种子，没有这颗种子你就不能施肥浇水，你就没有机会。所以无论我浇多少，我都要保持最大的支持。
Because this is a seed, without this seed, you can't fertilize and water, and you won't have any chance. So, no matter how much I water it, I need to provide the maximum support.

《企鹅岛》就完全不一样，我们帮助的内容相对较少。比如说刚开始的版本，十分钟就发烫，那我们可以帮他重构。
*Penguin Isle* is entirely different; our assistance was relatively less. For example, in the early versions, it would overheat in just ten minutes, so we helped with the reconstruction.

然后特效表现我也可以帮他去做，更多是把游戏的质量提高一个档次，把变现水准提高一个档次，这个大部分发行商都能做。
Then, I could assist in enhancing the special effects performance. It was mostly about raising the game's quality and monetization level, which most publishers can do.

所以，其实我们的合作模式就是取合作伙伴之所需。他只要有一颗种子，其它所有事情我都可以办完。当然他能做到更多，他自己做也很好。
So, our cooperation model is based on meeting the needs of our partners. As long as they have a seed, I can take care of everything else. Of course, if they can do more on their own, that's excellent too.

> “我们会在内部把细分品类的路再走一遍。”
> "We will go through the path of sub-category within the company."
>
>

**赵伊江：如果说《原神》是大片的话，《未定事件簿》可能就是类型片。细分市场会是你们未来坚持的方向吗？
Zhao Yijiang: If *Genshin Impact* can be considered a blockbuster, then *Tears of Themis* might be a genre film. Will focusing on sub-markets be your direction in the future?**

刘伟：对，未来我们整个产品战略是两条腿走路。
Liu Wei: Yes, in the future, our entire product strategy will walk on two legs.

一条是像《原神》这种大投入大制作。我们希望在手机做出3A品质的产品，这是主线。我会持续投入，可能每2-3年能够推出一款。
One is big investments and productions like *Genshin Impact*. We hope to create AAA-quality products on mobile, and this is the mainstream. I will continue to invest, and we might be able to release one every 2-3 years.

另一条是如果我们本身发展起来，肯定会有一到两个团队去做实验品类。我们自己还会把从《崩坏2》到《崩坏3》走过的路，在团队内部再走一遍，选一些我们认为懂的细分领域。
The other is, if we develop ourselves further, there will definitely be one or two teams exploring experimental categories. We will also take the path from *Houkai Gakuen 2* to *Honkai Impact 3rd* and walk through it again internally, choosing some subfields that we understand.

**赵伊江：这个过程是自下而上的还是自上而下的？
Zhao Yijiang: Is this process bottom-up or top-down?**

刘伟：出发点一定是自下而上的。
Liu Wei: The starting point is definitely bottom-up.

但我们会告诉他们，怎么样从《崩坏2》走到《崩坏3》甚至走到《原神》，我们会在内部把细分品类的路再走一遍。
But we will guide them on how to go from *Houkai Gakuen 2* to *Honkai Impact 3rd* and even to *Genshin Impact*. We will go through the path of sub-category within the company.

**赵伊江：非常感谢4位，我们的时间已经到了，希望明年有机会再跟大家见面。
Zhao Yijiang: Thank you all very much. Our time is up, and I hope we will have the opportunity to meet again next year.**