Episode 36: “I Love Evil Women” (w/ Annie Rose Malamet!)

*Real life lesbian vampire/podcaster Annie Rose Malamet joins the crew to talk the 1936 sapphic sequel DRACULA’S DAUGHTER!   Brennan shares the history of how this movie brought the Laemmle dynasty to its knees, Nay denounces whistling, Sam lets his inner Ru queen loose, and Michael struggles with his feelings about Stephen Dorff.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on SCREAM 3 & 4, DEAD TO ME, DETECTIVE PIKACHU, WINE COUNTRY, and YouTube Munchausen docs.[1]*

## **Trivia**

Topics brought up during the episode: Episode 3 of Girls, Guts and Giallo, Annie's personal insta: fatgawth (like "goth" with a New York accent) also on insta as girlsgutsgiallo

## **Tea Time**

**Michael:** *Scream 3*

**Nay:** *Scream 4*

**Brennan:** *Detective Pikachu*; *Wine Country*

**Sam:** *Dead to Me*

**Annie:** *Basic Instinct*

## **Shady Summaries**

**Annie:** Lonely goth lesbian seeks codependent relationship with blond bombshell to come live in decaying castle filled with family trauma

**Brennan:** It turns out tedium is a hereditary trait and the male is the carrier

**Nay:** Mine is not so much a Shady Summary but the main point I think I took away is that, "I'd be so sad to be a fine-ass lesbian vampire and *never be able to see myself in the mirror*!" Fuck! That is so sad!

**Michael:** I'd have people sketching me on a daily basis

**Nay:** Yeah, for real

**Annie:** That's why she's a painter

**Nay:** Exactly

**Sam:** But how was her eye makeup *so fucking on point???*

**Michael:** I mean--

**Annie:** Sandor does it

**Nay:** I also wrote down, with asterisks, "I need a Sandor, A-1!"

**Annie:** Yeah, except when he fuckin' betrays her at the end

**Nay:** Yeah. I mean, I would expect that to happen, so

## **Pride Float**

**Nay:** Does this movie get a Pride float?

**Annie:** I think so

**Michael:** I think so, too

**Nay:** I would definitely say so. Yes

**Michael:** Her flat is the float

**Annie:** Yes!

**Michael:** Or the castle

**Nay:** Okay

**Annie:** The castle, yeah

**Michael:** Or just a big-ass coffin?

**Annie:** (chuckling) Just a big-ass coffin. And everybody is in a different gown that (Zaleska) wears in the movie

**Brennan:** Oooh!

**Annie:** *Yes*

**Michael:** That's what I loved about this movie, was the costume design

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** Everyone was like, formally fucking dressed. And I'm not talking *form*, I'm talking formal. That dude was roamin' around in tuxedos the whole movie!

**Annie:** Yeah. And it's a *gorgeous* movie. The cinematography

**Michael:** It's beautiful! The sets

**Annie:** Right. The scene where she's doing that ritual to get rid of her vampirism--

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** Oooh

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Annie:** And she's in the gothic forest and *she has a French manicure*! (laughs)

**Michael:** Love it

**Annie:** And she's got that ring. Oh, the ring, too--

**Nay:** Yes

**Annie:** Seduction. I dunno, it's just so….

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And I love the shot of the ring reflecting in Lily's eyes.

**Nay and Annie:** (gasp)

**Michael:** Both eyes they managed to do

**Annie and Nay:** Right

**Michael:** The best is you could see it going in one eye and then the other light is a *little* bit too late but they did it anyways. I dunno. I love that old shit

**Nay:** Amazing

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Sam, Pride float? Yes or no?

**Sam:** You know, when I came in here I thought, "No," and just because it feels like at the end of the day she has to die and I was going through this whole thing with--

**Michael:** Hays Code. Hays Code

**Sam:** But fuck it, this movie has a Pride float. Not only that, it's got Violet Tchotchke on it. She's wearing that full, like head-to-toe covered up black, and halfway through the song she does the reveal and underneath is that dress (Zaleska) had on at the end where it's like crossed over her chest--

**Michael:** (moaning) *Ohhhh, sexy*

**Annie:** Oh, so good

**Sam:** It is a queens on, hello, Ru queens future of season twelve--

**Michael:** Someone should just be Dracula's daughter one season

**Sam:** Please. Dracula's daughter--

**Annie:** That'd be a great drag name!

**Sam:** And it's a great reveal

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** Dracula's daughter?

**Sam:** So come out--

**Michael:** Dragula's daughter?

**Brennan:** I also give this a Pride float

**Michael:** Yay!

## **Quotes**

**Nay:** (to Michael) Are you proud of me?

**Michael:** I'm so proud of you

**Nay:** Oh. I thought you were gonna say, "For what?"

**Michael:** Oh

**Nay:** But you're just so precious and in love with me that you just said, "Yes." (laughs)

**Michael:** I am always proud of you

**Brennan:** But for what, Nay?

**Michael:** But for what, Nay?

**Nay:** I brought an actual vampire today, to the podcast

**Brennan:** (gasps)

**Michael:** Yay! I love vampires

**Nay:** I'd like to see any of you other people do that. Legit

**Michael:** You win. I'm very proud of you

**Nay:** Thank you very much

**Nay:** Well, let's get to know who's here, because it is absolutely one of my most *favorite* people on this planet. I know a lot of us make friends on the internet these days, but as you probably know not every one of those people turns into one of your actual friends. And I feel so honored to Annie Rose Malamet here!

**Michael:** Wooooo!!!

**Annie:** Hi!!

**Nay:** Let me read this amazing bio and introduce my friend. "Annie Rose Malamet is a lesbian vampire, media educator and artist based in New York. Her podcast Girls, Guts, Giallo examines the feminine image in controversial and cult cinema through a queer feminist lens…"

**Michael:** Love it

**Nay:** "Currently Annie lectures on representations of fat women on film and in television." Welcome to Queerwolf, Annie!

**Michael:** Thanks for being here!

**(someone starts clapping)**

**Annie:** Thank you for having me!

**Nay:** *Yeah!*

**Michael:** That's me, I'm clapping (laughs with Nay)

**Nay:** How did that start? Clapping?

**Michael:** Clapping? I don't know

**Nay:** They were like, "This is how we're gonna show we appreciate what someone just said and we're excited."

**Michael:** It's crazy to think that whistling in other parts of the world is like a negative thing, too

**Nay:** I mean

**Michael:** It's only considered positive in America where people whisper at sports games. (amused) Sports games

**Nay:** Wait, whisper?

**Brennan:** They whisper?

**Michael:** They whistle

**Nay:** Whistle

**Michael:** Yeah, like people whistle at a game

**Nay:** I was just gonna say, as a woman--

**Michael:** It's very negative?

**Nay:** Yeah, fuck whistling. I don't wanna hear one single whistle, ever

**Annie:** Oh, God. Are you kidding me?

**Nay:** Yeah. I'm not turnin' around

**Annie:** I immediately go into fight or flight

**Nay:** *Yeah*. Imma keep walking. I'm not turning around

**Michael:** The scariest sound ever?

**Nay:** Yeah, I'm not gonna see who's doing that

**Michael:** Sam was doing it earlier

**Sam:** Yeah, I a hundred percent catcalled Michael on the way into the building from my car

**Nay:** Well that's fine

**Michael:** I didn't hear it

**Brennan:** See, no, I don't mean to immediately piss all over Sam's whole thing, unless you're into it

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Michael:** If I had heard it I would have been like, "*Haaaaay*!"

**Brennan:** My boyfriend does the same thing, he does the whistle to get your attention, the "hoo-hoo!" He sounds like a bird. But also that and car honks are so impersonal, I never know who's trying to contact me--

**Annie:** Triggered

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** As soon as I hear a car honk, my fists go up

**Brennan:** So I ignore it

**Annie and Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Well I always take the cruising approach. I roll down my window and I direct eye contact, or try to, and then I use his name. You do that when you cruise, right? You use their name?

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Sam:** But I can't whistle so it comes out as a, "Ow-ow!" kind of thing

**Nay:** Oh, wow

**Sam:** It's very wolf

**Nay:** Even gayer

**Michael:** I wish I would have heard it, I would've felt really good about myself

**Sam:** Well, everybody else heard it and looked right at me, so it's fine

**Brennan:** So you know that's how you know it works, because they think it's for them

**Sam:** Nailed it

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Annie:** Recently a man I know, I was walking in the financial district in New York, which, in New York, you just don't make eye contact as a woman--

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** 'Cause it's like constant sexual harassment. And this man I know but didn't know that I know him *grabbed* me--

**Brennan:** Oh God!

**Annie:** And I slapped him in the face--

**Michael:** Oh good for you

**Brennan:** Okay

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Michael:** He learned his lesson

**Annie:** And I'm tired of it, and it was somebody I work with, and I was like, "Well, don't do that."

**Nay:** "You really should've known how to act, then. I don't know what to tell you."

**Annie:** Right

**Michael:** Yeah. It's actually doubly worse for him, you know?

**Annie and Nay:** Yeah. Yeah

**Michael:** Okay

**Annie:** But yeah, don't do that

**Nay:** Yeah, for real. Don't do that

**Michael:** Don't touch anybody unless--

**Annie:** I *know!*

**Michael:** Unless you ask them if it's okay

**Nay:** Yeah, don't do that. That fool was not raised right. I will fight you. Immediately. (laughs)

**Annie:** Yeah. No no no

**Michael:** Anyway, clapping

**Nay:** Yeah. Clapping

**Michael:** I'm continuing my *Scream* rewatching, so I rewatched (*Scream*) *3*

**Annie:** I like *3*

**Michael:** You're lovely. (laughs) You're a positive person. No, *3* is fun. It's just so bad

**Annie:** Courtney Cox's hair?

**Michael:** I mean, it's just got--

**Brennan:** The twin Gale Weathers are iconic

**Michael:** Parker Posey is the best thing about *3*

**Sam:** Yes

**Nay:** Yes.

**Michael:** Absolutely one hundred percent. But you can clearly tell just listening to the dialogue in the movie that Kevin Williamson didn't write it. Like, it's very glaring. And a lot of the comedy is Scooby-Doo-ish. But I mean, I enjoy it, it's ridiculous. They're filming *Stab* 3. I love watching the movie and then dissecting Roman's ability to get to Sidney and like, his mom was sexually assaulted and had him, never admitted to him that she was his mother. He managed to get Sidney's boyfriend to kill, pretend to kill Sidney's mom--

**Annie:** It's absurd

**Michael:** 'Cause (Roman) actually killed Sidney's mom. Manages to be a movie director and his first gig is not only a horror movie, but it's a horror movie based on his half-sister's life. (chuckles) I just love it! Like, going into the connections. Yeah

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Annie:** But also interesting is that sexual assault is a major plot point in that movie

**Michael:** *Major* plot point

**Annie:** It's a Weinstein movie

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. *Major* plot point

**Annie:** And it's about a woman getting sexually assaulted by a Hollywood exec

**Michael:** I almost feel like they were writing about-- like Lance Henriksen's character is a stand-in for Weinstein

**Annie:** *Yes!* But it's a Weinstein production

**Michael:** Yeah, it's crazy. But looking at it now, the two things stood out to me were that storyline and you could look at Roman's whole motive as a fuckin' knock on straight white male privilege. Because his whole thing is, "It should have been mine! It should have been mine! It should have been mine!" (Sidney's) like, "I didn't ask for any of this shit!"

**Annie:** And his name is Roman (laughs)

**Michael:** Yeah. That's on purpose

**Annie:** Roman Polanski

**Brennan:** Yeah. But no, he is a successful Hollywood film director. What does Sidney have that he doesn't at this point?

**Michael:** That's very true. Like, he's got a really good life (chuckles)

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's just petty

**Michael:** Yeah. But I mean, it's the worst of the four, but I still enjoy it every time I watch it

**Sam:** Mmmm, no.

**Brennan:** *Excuse me?*

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** (*Scream*) *4* is the worst of the four, I know we're gonna fight on this, but--

**Brennan:** That's not true, that's not true

**Michael:** I think everybody that listens will fight you on that

**Sam:** I *thought* that *4, 4* I loved a lot more and we'll talk about it next week obviously because you will be watching it

**Michael:** Continuing, yeah

**Sam:** But, it is a better update, but *3* is… I love those bangs. And I do wanna honor them

**Michael:** (laughs) No, they're amazing!

**Sam:** When they first met, I thought, "I don't know. I think this is a risk that didn't work." And now, in retrospect those bangs have really elevated that sequel--

**Michael:** It like works in 2000

**Sam:** To my number three position

**Annie:** (amused) "Elevated"

**Brennan:** Well, they elevated her *forehead*!

**Michael:** I love that someone tweeted a meme about her bangs and Courtney Cox replied--

**Nay:** "What the fuck?" or something?

**Michael:** Like, "Jesus fucking Christ" or something

**Annie:** I know

**Nay:** I love that!

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Annie:** Somebody was like, "If you're ever having a bad day, at least you don't have Courtney Cox's bangs…"

**Michael:** Yeah, that's what the meme was, and she replied like, "What the fuck?!?"

**Annie:** And she was like, "Jesus Christ!"

**Nay:** Well, I watched (*Scream*) *4*

**Michael:** I saw you tweet that!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Is that your first time seeing *4*?

**Nay:** No. No

**Michael:** Okay. What do you think?

**Nay:** I, I--

**Michael:** I think it ages well. It gets better

**Nay:** Yes. It definitely aged well and I was thoroughly entertained

**Michael:** The ending is so fucking awesome

**Nay:** Oh my God, yes

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Emma Roberts is like *so* fucking great in the movie

**Annie:** Yeah, I love her in it

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** I love her in it, too. And I love that Craven layered her as the killer throughout the movie

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Looking back on it, you're like, "Holy shit of course she's the killer." She's a whiny brat the entire movie

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** And I *love it*!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** And what's our take on Kirby? Hayden Panettiere's character

**Nay:** (chuckles) Okay--

**Michael:** Best character in the movie

**Annie:** What happened to her?

**Nay:** (laughing) The thing though, I can't stop thinking about her in *Remember the Titans*

**Michael:** Oh, when she's like a little tiny girl?

**Nay:** She's a baby and that's all I think of. She annoyed the shit out of me in (*Remember the Titans*) because that movie is annoying. And I think I couldn't stop thinking about that and then obviously was like, "But wait. Is this a hot dyke in this movie?" You know

**Sam:** Yes

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** So then I felt conflicted

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** But yeah

**Michael:** I think (Kirby's) the best of the new characters

**Brennan:** Oh, absolutely

**Nay:** I definitely would agree

**Michael:** (to Brennan) Were you asking, "Do you think she's dead or alive?"

**Brennan:** Oh, no. (scoffs) Come on.

**Michael:** She's dead

**Brennan:** Yeah. She's dead. But, she's the single best thing in the entire movie. And look, we discussed this before, but I love me a soft butch in any gender presentation

**Michael:** *Yes*

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Basically all I want in the world is a lumberjack who will discuss Kesha's discography with me. That's like my exact venn diagram

**Annie:** That's a good personal ad

**Sam:** Yeah, Brennan

**Nay:** There are those

**Brennan:** Oh, yeah!

**Annie:** Can you be a lesbian?

**Nay:** (chuckles) *Right*

**Annie:** We could probably think of a few. Come be a lesbian

**Brennan:** I'll think about it

**Sam:** There was the one moment in (*Scream*) *Part 4* where he says that you have to be practically be gay to live

**Michael:** That's a fake, made-up rule (giggles)

**Brennan:** That's weird

**Sam:** I'm just gonna--

**(Everyone else laughs)**

**Sam:** That's why I wanna point to it. It is a fake, made-up rule

**Michael:** Yeah. Clearly trying to (indistinct)

**Sam:** And I know it's trying to sound edgy and feel like, "Oh, new decade new rules!" And you can't forget it because they say it how many times, and not just the poster

**Michael:** I think twice in the movie?

**Sam:** (sighs) Excessive. But, there's that moment and it's like, "Man, no. You actually have to be gay to be a fuckin' villain or die. So, which one are you?"

**Annie:** Right. What are you talking about?

**Sam:** And it's like--

**Michael:** And it's *clear* that line was written after Kevin (Williamson) had left, because Kevin Williamson would never write that line

**Sam:** I think *a lot of things* (laughs) Kevin, Kevin-- I wish. I wanna live in that timeline where it was all him. But, I was trying to think about *any* movies in that time period where gay people survived to the end

**Brennan:** *Were* gay people in those movies at that time?

**Sam:** There was *Bride of Chucky*. But he died. There was *Cursed*, right? Did he live to the end?

**Michael:** He did. Milo (Ventimiglia)?

**Brennan:** He did. But that was a gay *reveal*

**Sam:** (disappointed) *I know*

**Brennan:** It was a joke more than anything

**Michael:** It wasn't like, gay from page one

**Sam:** *Yeah*

**Michael:** But it was representation

**Brennan:** Oh no, I love it

**Michael:** What were you gonna say, Annie?

**Annie:** I was just gonna say at that time, in the 2000s, you get a lot of lesbian stalker movies

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Mmmmm

**Annie:** So I don't know what they're talking about. The lesbian stalker always dies

**Brennan:** True

**Michael:** I mean, even in 2011 when *Scream 4* was made, I was like, "*What*? Name a *movie*, Robbie." (chuckling) Like that's what I wanted to say to the character

**Nay:** "Prove it!"

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah, maybe they meant how, you know, as gay folks or as queer folks we just have this much deeper and better and more thorough understanding of everything because we've had to *question* so much--

**Michael:** Amen

**Brennan:** True

**Nay:** Because we don't fit in these boxes. And obviously you can still wanna be in those boxes as a queer person, like that shit is ingrained in us

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** So, we default to that often, or-- that's rude. I don't wanna say it's a default. If that's your choice, you do you

**Annie:** I guess

**(Everybody laughs)**

**Annie:** Wouldn't be me

**Nay:** *Yeah. Boring*! So yeah, I'm like, you know, you have to be gay to live

**Michael:** Can you stay?

**Nay:** I know. Obsessed. We do live better. Have you ever seen those memes that's like, talking about gender with cis people and then talking about gender with trans people--

**Annie:** Oh yeah!

**Nay:** It was like, "Talking to Play-doh versus talking to Plato"?

**Annie:** Yeah, with like a mom, yeah

**(Everybody laughs)**

**Nay:** I feel like, as gay people, I think we talked about it a little bit our last episode where as queer people we just constantly *have* to examine things because we don't fit there, it wasn't made for us, and we have to completely reimagine entire narratives and futures and we're just so brilliant for that

**Michael:** Well, like we discussed last week, we have to try to find queer representation in the *tiniest* of details in movies--

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Michael:** Otherwise we don't have any

**Nay:** Yeah. Yeah.

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** Or at least we didn't, until recent

**Sam:** I feel like in *Scream 4* I'm projecting myself *way more* on Emma Roberts or Hayden, you know?

**Michael:** Oh, I *am* Emma Roberts one hundred percent

**Sam:** Than I was with the actual gay character

**Brennan:** Well, okay, question

**Michael:** *Is he gay?*

**Brennan:** Yeah. Is he gay?

**Michael:** Or is he saying that to try to live?

**Brennan:** Or is he putting on the mantle to, yeah, survival tactic

**Sam:** (sighs) That would be such a straight guy thing to do

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Right! I'm like, "You actually think that improves your chance of survival. You dumbass! Are you serious?"

**Michael:** If it helps, that's clearly--

**Sam:** *Ewww!*

**Michael:** (laughs) And then he gets *stabbed* immediately

**Sam:** If it helps, I don't think my chance of directing this film--

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** Taking this franchise

**Michael:** (exhales) Anyway

**Nay:** That's what Michael and I have been watching

**Michael:** (chuckles) I'll still watch (*Scream*) *4* and talk about it

**Brennan:** Of course

**Brennan:** I watched *Detective Pikachu*

**Michael:** (gasps) I saw it last night, too!

**Brennan:** Oh, you saw it, too?

**Michael:** Yeah, I was seeing it for my friend's birthday, yeah

**Nay:** (laughs) *Okay*. How old is your friend? How old did your friend turn?

**Brennan:** Did you like it, Michael?

**Michael:** Thirty-four

**Nay:** Okay

**Michael:** I had a lot of fun. Like a lot of fun. And I'm not a Pokemon person, I've never played or watched the cartoon

**Brennan:** Okay, I was gonna ask. Did you have *any* context for what was happening?

**Michael:** I mean, I know what it is, but no

**Brennan:** Okay. But it still *played*?

**Michael:** Yeah! I understood everything

**Brennan:** Okay

**Michael:** And it was cute

**Brennan:** So yeah, I was imagining; I was a huge Pokemon kid for a while, but I kind of fell off the games eventually because, you know, I went to college. But any Pokemon past generation three or four, I felt like a parent. I was like, "I have no idea what the fuck this thing is…"

**Michael:** (chuckling) You felt like a parent

**Brennan:** "I don't know what the fuck it does." But it was fun. It was, you know, kind of generic murder mystery situation

**Michael:** Yeah! Very family friendly

**Brennan:** I wish I had more to say about it, except for the fact that it has an almost effortlessly diverse cast in that they're not calling attention to it?

**Michael:** Yeah, I agree

**Brennan:** The only-- I mean, the lead's a white man, it's Ryan Reynolds as Pikachu. But you don't have to look at him

**Annie:** He's Pikachu

**Brennan:** Yeah. And every other *male* in the cast is a person of color, and there are only two white women in the movie and the other women are people of color, so it's like a very--

**Michael:** Well, the other lead is a person of color too, essentially

**Brennan:** Yeah yeah, the lead man

**Michael:** Yep. The son

**Brennan:** So that's like, interesting. I liked that. This movie is also another piece of propaganda in the machine that's trying to convince me that Rita Ora is a famous person

**Annie:** Stop trying to get me to like Rita Ora!

**Brennan:** I don't get it

**Annie:** Stop trying to make Rita Ora happen. It's not going to happen (laughs)

**Michael:** She's fine in the movie, though

**Brennan:** No, she's not bad

**Michael:** She's serviceable

**Brennan:** I just feel like I'm being lied to

**Nay:** Y'all catty (laughs)

**Annie:** Who *is she?* They keep pushing her!

**Brennan:** No. Look. In 2013, or was it 2015? When *Fifty Shades of Grey* came out, she has a cameo in that movie, and a song on the soundtrack--

**Michael:** Oh, she does?

**Brennan:** I'm like, "Girl doesn't even have an album yet!" I know there were issues with that

**Annie:** Yeah, she's his sister in the movie

**Brennan:** Look, I know she had issues with her record contract that did not lead to her having an album, but I was like, "I don't know who this person is or why I need to be excited like people are telling me

**Annie:** "Am I *supposed* to?"

**Michael:** I didn't know it was her until after the movie, until someone told me after the movie

**Brennan:** And then she replaced Tyra Banks in *America's Next Top Model*. I'm like, "*Who are you?!?*"

**Annie:** I know

**Michael:** She's hosting *America's Next Top Model*?

**Brennan:** (sotto voce) Not anymore

**Michael:** Well, who's hosting it now?

**Brennan:** I think Tyra's back

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Oh, really? (softly) Tyra's back!

**Annie:** Well I think that's the issue. You're pushing her like she's already famous, but I don't know who she is

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** They tend to do that with people. They did that with Alex Pettyfer

**Brennan:** (laughing) Oh yeah

**Annie:** They did it with Amh Schumer. I'm like, "*Who is this?*"

**Michael:** I remember Alex Pettyfer was billed over the top of a poster. I was like, "Didn't I see that guy at Starbucks yesterday? What the fuck is this?"

**Brennan:** Yeah, and I'm not being anti Rita Ora being famous, I just want her to be famous when she's famous

**Annie:** She does have a song about being bisexual

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** That's true

**Nay:** The first thing that came up when I googled her right now, to see who it was?

**Michael:** Did it say, "Who is Rita Ora?"

**Nay:** (chuckles) "Rita Ora wanted to set her hair on fire for the 2019 Met Gala." (laughs)

**Michael:** Cool

**Brennan:** That would've been hilarious

**Nay:** I'd read *that*. I wanna know what that's about

**Annie:** It still wouldn't have been enough for the gays. They would've been like, "Who is this again?"

**Michael:** "It's kinda camp." (giggles)

**Brennan:** The gays do like to lift up someone who's not very famous, and she's one of them

**Annie:** (laughs) Yes, that's true

**Nay:** That's a good point

**Michael:** *Detective Pikachu*'s fun. Watch it when it's on Netflix

**Brennan:** Yeah.

**Michael:** Pikachu's so *cute*, too

**Brennan:** He is

**Brennan:** I saw *Wine Country* on Netflix

**Michael:** (softly) No thanks. I love all those gals, but….

**Brennan:** I don't mean to be such, so *saucy* on this episode

**Michael:** No, please

**Brennan:** This Tea Time. But this is another one of those Netflix movies where they assemble maybe the best cast in the world, and then have them do absolutely nothing. We've got Amy Poehler, we've got Maya Rudolph, Ana Gasteyer, Rachel Dratch--

**Michael:** Tina Fey

**Brennan:** Tina Fey in a couple scenes

**Michael:** Paula Pell, Jason Schwartzman

**Brennan:** Oh my God, yeah, Paula Pell, Jason Schwartzman

**Nay:** Cheri Oteri?

**Brennan:** (sadly) No

**Annie:** *Please*, *where is she?*

**Michael:** I love you, Cheri! What happened to you *Cheri?!?*

**Brennan:** But this is like one of those later-period Adam Sandler movies where they made it so they could have a vacation, probably

**Michael:** Amy Poehler wrote it

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** She directed it, too, right?

**Brennan:** Yeah, she wrote and directed it, it's her directorial debut, which is disappointing. But look, a lot of comedians transitioning into being a director, it can be very challenging 'cause modern comedy doesn't necessarily require a lot visually and so it's just very static

**Michael:** Well, the movie sounded like-- I remember reading about how it came together. It literally was Amy Poehler went on a wine country trip with her friends and made a movie based on that. It's like she literally was on her way home and was like, "I'm gonna make a movie about this."

**Nay:** Sooooooo gaaaaaaaaaay. So gay

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's very--

**Michael:** Yeah, I liked it. They made it happen like that (snaps fingers)

**Sam:** The cast sounds fantastic.

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** If Rita Ora's not in it, then I'm not gonna watch.

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Sam:** Not for me. Hard pass

**Brennan:** It's very sloppily improvised, it's boring

**Michael:** Yeah, the trailer was boring

**Brennan:** It's the older ladies version of *Ibiza*, that other movie that Netflix made that's also the exact same thing?

**Sam:** Oh my gosh Brennan, I wish you were keeping me from watching this movie, but the more you talk about it, the more I know it's what I'm gonna do when I get home

**Brennan:** Well, lemme know

**Annie:** And drink some wine

**Brennan:** Okay… *one shining* light in this movie is that Paula Pell, who is a lesbian in real life--

**Michael:** I love Paula Pell

**Brennan:** Her character's also a lesbian and she's the only one who has *any* sort of real romantic subplot--

**Michael:** Oh, cool!

**Brennan:** And I was *so* invested in that and nothing else in the movie

**Annie:** Of course!

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** I think Paula Pell's really funny

**Brennan:** She's great!

**Nay:** I cannot believe someone made a movie about the very last thing I would want to walk up on, which is a bunch of white women in wine country

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Annie:** It sounds like a nightmare

**Michael:** Same

**Nay:** "Is it a horror movie?" (laughs)

**Brennan:** The barest whisper of a conflict does not show up until fifty minutes into the movie

**Nay:** (laughing) Okay!

**Sam:** I was in the mood for something spooky, and I was driving past a poster for *Dead to Me* and I thought--

**Michael:** Ohhh, I can't wait to see that!

**Sam:** "Okay, quick google, I'm gonna read…"

**Michael:** It's Christina Applegate

**Sam:** Yeah. It's these two women who become best friends at a grief counseling group for people who died. So I assumed that they were dead, right? And this is a full *Beetlejuice* situation?

**Michael:** It's a comedy

**Sam:** Right! So I'm stoked and I'm in and really watching. "Wow, this is getting good!" And then they never die and I'm like, "*Oh!* This is just a *drama*." And then, you know, six episodes later I'm weeping on my couch because they're talking about grief

**Michael:** Yeah. I hear it's great

**Sam:** And I am conflicted because part of it is set in Orange County and I just *do not care* about anything in these women's lives

**Nay:** Ooooh

**Brennan:** Look, I grew up in Orange County. I agree

**Michael:** It is like the *least* interesting place on Earth

**Sam:** And they keep *trying* to make it interesting, like, "This toll road goes to Yorba Linda." I'm like, "First of all, no it doesn't." (groans) *Oh God, I don't wanna hear it*, but it's fine

**Brennan:** Wait, what toll road goes to Yorba Linda?

**Michael:** The one in *Dead to Me*

**Sam:** Yeah girl. I pulled it up and was like, "The 73…" No. I went to--

**Nay:** Pulled it up. Fuckin' nerd (chuckles)

**Sam:** I know! I had to know! It just, yeah. I'm pretty into it. The cast, we have our lead from *La Llorona* (2019)

**Michael:** Linda Cardellini! I love her in anything!

**Sam:** Fucking. Slay.

**Brennan:** Yes

**Michael:** I watched *Legally Blonde* yesterday and I forgot she was in that--

**Brennan:** She is?

**Michael:** She's Chutney, the one that--

**Annie:** She's so hot in that

**Michael:** *I know!* And she's got that awful perm?

**Annie:** I know. *Chutney--*

**Michael:** But she's still so pretty, yeah

**Annie:** I'm like, "Be in the movie more!"

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** I love an evil bitch

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** That movie? So good. I love *Legally Blonde*

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And I'm so excited they're making *Legally Blonde 3* with Reese Witherspoon

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Annie:** *Legally Blonde 2: Red White and Blonde*?

**Michael:** That's horrible, but I love the first one

**Annie:** It's bad, but yeah

**Nay:** I watched (the first one) not that long ago

**Annie:** I watch it whenever it's on like, TNT

**Michael:** It's on like, TV? Yeah. So, Sam, big recommend?

**Sam:** (*Dead to Me*) is a lukewarm recommend in terms of *I fucking love it*, but I recognize that it's not for everybody

**Michael:** Oh really? Because I've heard nothing but praise from people

**Sam:** Yeah? Okay. We'll see, we'll see

**Michael:** I have a friend who literally, it dropped and she watched it all right away. She's like, "I couldn't stop."

**Sam:** What I do enjoy is conflict that seems pretty surface level and then processing something much darker like grief. I'm *super* into feelings, so I'm watching anything like that. Can you believe it?

**Michael:** *You?*

**Nay:** *Such a Pisces*

**Annie:** Such a lesbian thing here (laughs with Nay)

**Brennan:** So it's a straightforward drama?

**Sam:** No, there's a ton of comedy, there's a ton of comedy. Yeah, no, it's hilarious

**Michael:** The trailer makes it look like a straight comedy

**Sam:** Yeah. There are all these dramatic elements that I--

**Brennan:** I just wanted to know about that

**Michael:** And I heard Christina Applegate has never been better

**Sam:** But also, I cried at *House Bunny*, so you don't even want to--

**Annie:** I *loved House Bunny*!

**Michael:** I cried at *House Bunny* too

**Annie:** *House Bunny* is legitimately good

**Michael:** *House Bunny*'s great!

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** So, in my world *House Bunny*'s a drama, so you guys tell me

**Annie:** I mean, she's like a woman who gets cast out, she's from nowhere

**Michael:** Because she dares turn twenty-seven or something?

**Annie:** Right. She's an orphan, she turned to sex work as a way to have a life and a family

**Michael:** She aged out of the Playboy Mansion

**Annie:** It's actually really tragic (laughs)

**Michael:** It is! It's like a tragedy, yeah

**Annie:** Yeah

**Sam:** Shakespearean

**Michael:** It's so cute and fun

**Brennan:** Gotta rewatch it

**Annie:** Ditto

**Michael:** It's like Emma Stone's first big movie

**Annie:** Right! And Kat Dennings, who I love

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Annie:** And Anna Farris is hot in it. She's got the little outfits!

**Brennan:** Anna Farris is hot in anything

**Michael:** I love *Mom* and so I'm a big Anna Farris fan

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm, yeah. I love her too

**Annie:** I recently rewatched *Basic Instinct* again. I've seen it a million times and I (faux haughty) recently watched it again for *my podcast*. And obviously, you know, I talk about all of the dyke drama themes in that movie. And then in terms of new stuff--

**Michael:** (amused) "Dyke drama" that just hit my ears

**Nay:** Yes, isn't it good?

**Michael:** Yeah, I love it

**Annie:** Yeah. And in terms of new stuff, I am obsessed with all the Dee Dee Blanchard shit.

**Michael:** *Girl*

**Annie:** *The Act*, and I recently rewatched *Mommy Dead and Dearest*, which, you know, happy Mother's Day!

**Michael:** Mmmm, me too. Okay, I'm stealing Annie on the way out tonight

**Nay:** Yeah, I understand

**Michael:** Just have a Munchausen party?

**Annie:** Oh my God, I'm *obsessed*. Not with Munchausen's, but Munchausen's-by-proxy

**Michael:** Yeah, yeah, yeah

**Annie:** I'm *obsessed* with it

**Sam:** I will not be attending that party

**Michael:** It's horrible, but I can't stop watching shit about it

**Annie:** I can't. It *turns my stomach,* that story…

**Michael:** Uh-huh. But it's so fascinating

**Annie:** But I can't stop

**Michael:** Someone was in here talking about it post-show and they mentioned--

**Nay:** I think it was Chingy

**Michael:** It was Chingy or it was Joelle. They mentioned that there was a *big* story about a *dad* who had it and it was the first time I'd ever heard of a father having it

**Annie:** Oooh. Well, it's usually coded as like, "a woman's disease"

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Yeah, because I think women have so little agency that this is something that they can control, *their child*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Or their disabled partner

**Michael:** (sighs) *So fascinating*

**Annie:** Yeah, it is really fascinating. Even when doctors talk about Munchausen's-by-proxy, they use she/her pronouns to talk about perpetrators

**Michael:** Oh yeah? No kidding. Interesting

**Annie:** Yeah, I noticed that when I was watching a bunch of documentaries on YouTube because I'm crazy and I'm just obsessed. *The Act* though; I mean, Patricia Arquette is really good in it. At the same time though, Dee Dee Blanchard was fat, so I'm like, "Just cast a fat woman."

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** Patricia Arquette walking around in her muumuus, like they're trying to make her look horrible and bloated and I'm like, "Just cast a fat person." I feel like Chrissy Metz would have been amazing in it

**Michael:** Ohhh!

**Brennan:** Well, she was busy praying for her son to come out of his ice coma

**Annie:** Oh God, what the fuck is that?

**Michael:** Is that like a faith film?

**Annie:** That movie?

**Brennan:** No, *Breakthrough*, that's like a real film

**Annie:** It's like a Christian movie

**Michael:** It's a faith-based film, right? One of those?

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Annie:** Any movie that's live-action and "PG" is Christian. I can sense it, like, immediately

**Michael:** I was at the movies last night and *A Dog's Journey* trailer came on

**Annie:** Oh God

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** My buddy just turns to me and goes, "That looks fuckin' Christian."

**Annie:** It does! You could just tell!

**Nay:** Isn't that (indistinct)?

**Brennan:** It's about dog reincarnation which I feel is explicitly anti-christian

**Michael:** But how many fucking dogs die, then? You mean I have to sit and watch a dog die every eight minutes?

**Brennan:** Oh no, this is the second movie of the string of dog deaths, so a lot

**Michael:** (softly) *God*

**Annie:** Is this movie tied to *A Dog's Purpose*?

**Michael:** It's like a sequel

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's a sequel to *A Dog's Purpose*

**Annie:** Okay

**Nay:** Is that the movie none of us could watch because they were abusing dogs on set?

**Annie:** Yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** (softly) Oh that's right

**Annie:** I saw the video of it

**Nay:** I did too

**Sam:** Did you say the sequel to *A Dog's Purpose*?

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. And what's it called?

**Brennan:** It's called *A Dog's Journey.* Unrelated to the Bryce Dallas Howard movie *A Dog's Way Home* that came out in January

**Sam:** I though I've been seeing trailers for this movie for two years and they just haven't released it

**Michael:** For like (indistinct)? Yeah

**Sam:** And I've been telling people, "It's just that movie that hasn't come out!"

**Brennan:** It's like the *New Mutants* of dog movies

**Sam:** No, it's just come out for the third time

**Michael:** (amused) "The *New Mutants* of dog movies"?

**Annie:** I'm not into this weird wave of like, dog servant movies, like *A Dog's Purpose*? Fuck you. The dog's purpose is to make you happy. I hate that

**Brennan:** Also, I don't want Josh Gad in my life in any form, let alone in eighteen different forms!

**Michael:** God, Brennan! Sunday record! Bring out the bitch!

**Brennan:** I'm so sorry. I'd don't know what's going on

**Michael:** No, I love it!

**Brennan:** I hate Olaf the character. I'm sorry, it's just not for me

**Nay:** (chuckling) This is amazing

**Annie:** Olaf from *Frozen* (201X)

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** Fuck Olaf. Because it's Josh Gad?

**Annie:** We're here for the pretty girls, we're not here for Olaf

**Brennan:** No, look. I dislike Josh Gad because of Olaf and that's the only reason. I'm sure he's a person. I don't know anything about him

**Annie:** (laughing) "I'm sure he's a person"!

**Brennan:** Well, I was gonna say, "I'm sure he's a nice person," but you know what? I don't know that.

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Annie:** (laughing) "I'm sure he's a person"

**Michael:** (to Brennan) Were you a big fan of *1600 Penn*, then?

**Brennan:** I never watched it

**Michael:** I didn't either

**Brennan:** I like Jon Lovett

**Nay:** Since we have an actual vampire here, I think we should take advantage of that and start talking about this movie that Annie picked. Do we have a trailer, Brennan?

**Brennan:** We *do*. Do you wanna introduce the title first?

**Nay:** So yeah, *Dracula's Daughter*, here we are. 1936

**Brennan:** Woop-woop

**(The trailer is played)**

**Michael:** So do you think this movie scared the shit out of people when they saw it in the Thirties?

**Annie:** I think so

**Michael:** Yeah. Right?

**Annie:** Yeah

**Nay:** I mean, yeah

**Michael:** (X) pulling her straps down, A) probably was like, "(gasps) Sex!"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And then she screams and they probably got scared

**Annie:** Well, they originally wanted her to be completely topless--

**Michael:** Oh, no kidding!

**Brennan:** *What?*

**Annie:** And of course they wouldn't--

**Michael:** Couldn't pass the Code or whatever?

**Annie:** Right. Well, this is, I believe pre-Hays Code, but it's starting to be enforced

**Brennan:** To creep in

**Sam:** It's post-Hays Code, but not by long

**Annie:** Okay, yeah

**Sam:** 'Cause it really started being enforced in Thirty-four

**Annie:** Okay

**Sam:** So Thirty-six was like, "All right, we're here, (indistinct) is dead."

**Annie:** Right, right

**Brennan:** And this was in development for a couple of years so it would have been on that line, I guess

**Sam:** That's so weird

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** When did the Hays Code end? Sixties?

**Sam:** It was like thirty years after that, so yeah, the Sixties

**Michael:** 'Cause I think I remember *Psycho* (1965) went through the Hays Code, right?

**Nay:** Let's explain for our listeners

**Sam and Brennan:** Oh yeah!

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Not me, though, okay?

**Michael:** Sam, do it

**Sam:** Sure! Hays Code refers to a set of rules that were put in place to, you know, censor movies. And that could include anything from showing a *white* slave, or a depiction of white slavery, or--

**Brennan:** It was a very specific set of rules. Instead of rating movies "PG", "R", whatever, *every* movie basically had to pass as I guess what we would think of as "PG". There were really specific rules for horror movies, too. It's like you could have a monster, but the monster *had* to die by the end of the movie

**Michael:** Huh

**Brennan:** You could show two people in a bedroom, but they couldn't be sitting on the bed or they couldn't both be touching. It was very, *very* specific

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm. And the act--

**Sam:** Except when it comes to queer representation. It was very specific, *weirdly* specific

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** But there are other things that were implied and just kind of taken, like queer representation for example, because it implies that a queer person can *look* and appear as if they're queer if they're the villain. But that happened about ten years after that

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** *Although*, *Draclua's Daughter* kind of plays with that

**Michael:** What were you gonna say, Annie, about the actors?

**Annie:** Oh, the actors also had to follow the Hays Code, like in their personal lives

**Michael:** Oh, no kidding!

**Annie:** Yeah, they were not allowed--

**Michael:** *Wow*. Like a code of conduct?

**Annie:** Maybe not, but in my understanding that was part of it

**Michael:** It's like the studio executives were piling people with drugs (chuckles)

**Annie:** Yeah. An openly gay man was originally supposed to direct this movie, the director James Whale. It probably would've been a lot gayer

**Brennan:** I actually have a little bit of a story about that. I was doing research on the history of this movie. Okay, first of all, have we decided as a culture how to pronounce the Laemmle family name? Is it "Lammell"? Is it "Lemmlee"?

**Annie:** No

**Brennan:** What is it? What are we saying?

**Annie:** I always say "Lammell"

**Brennan:** "Lammell"? I'm cool with that. But this movie was the destruction of the Laemmle empire

**Annie:** Yes

**Brennan:** First of all, James Whale who did *Frankenstein* (193X) and *Bride of Frankenstein* (193X), they really wanted him to make this movie, and he *really* did not want to make it. So he was like, "I will make the movie if you make it with this script that I have written." And it was *the* most outrageous, shocking thing ever and obviously they couldn't make it, so, you know, they had to can him and he went on to make another movie. That wasted a lot of their money.

**Michael:** Mmmm! Love it

**Brennan:** David O. Selznick, the producer behind *Gone with the Wind* and *Rebecca* (194X), which is one of our older movies that we've talked about, when *Dracula* (193X).became such a hit, he snapped up the rights to the short *Bram Stoker's Guest*, so he could hold it hostage from the Laemmles

**Michael:** (whispering) Oh my God

**Brennan:** And they paid an exorbitant amount of money for the rights to that, which they barely ended up using, because this is *not* an adaptation of *Dracula's Guest* except that there's a lady vampire in it. And so they lost a lot of money, and two days after shooting wrapped on this they got completely booted out by a corporate takeover and they never made another movie

**Michael:** *Wow!*

**Nay:** Holy shit

**Sam:** Hmmm!

**Brennan:** (chuckling) It's crazy!

**Michael:** It is crazy

**Annie:** Whoa, yeah

**Michael:** Van Helsing--

**Brennan:** "*Von* Helsing"

**Michael:** Von Helsing. He's gay, right?

**Nay:** I mean, with a name like that (laughs)

**Michael:** I mean, it's kind of like just his whole attitude and personality

**Annie:** He's always reading by the fire

**Michael:** Yeah. He's kind of reading *them*? (chuckles)

**Brennan:** (To Michael) Sorry, I wasn't being rude to correct you, I just, they changed his name to "Von Helsing" after the first one and I'm so mad about that

**Michael:** Instead of "Van Helsing"?

**Brennan:** Yeah. That's what it was in the original

**Michael:** Why did they change it to "Von", do you know?

**Brennan:** I dunno, maybe they didn't wear their glasses that day? I dunno

**Michael:** Okay

**Brennan:** Like, "It's a round shape." Something

**Annie:** But this is also the only actor from the first movie

**Brennan:** Yeah, so *he* should've known!

**Michael:** Oh, right. I was gonna ask that

**Brennan:** He should have been like, "What's going on with this?"

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** I haven't seen *Dracula*, the first movie in *forever*, so did this pick up where that left off or no?

**Annie:** Yeah, it's picking up right after he's killed

**Michael:** Got it. And is that the same actor in the box?

**Brennan:** Oh no. That was not Bela Lugosi

**Annie:** No, no that would not be--

**Michael:** Oh right, I was gonna say that wasn't him, huh

**Annie:** I also wanted to say this movie was considered *very* scandalous when it came out

**Michael:** *Really?*

**Annie:** Yeah. And the BBFC, the Vice President of the BBFC fumed that the film would "require the resources of a dozen more languages to adequately express its beastliness."

**Brennan:** *Ohhhh!*

**Annie:** And considered it unfit for exhibition as a film

**Nay:** *Yo*

**Michael:** Oh my God. People suck

**Nay:** People are so afraid of women. As they should be. As they fuckin' should be

**Annie:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah.

**Nay:** (to Annie) So tell us-- I mean, we've been talking forever about what we'd do if you came here and we talked about a lot of different ones and this is the one you ended up picking. Why is that?

**Annie:** So I picked this not because it's my favorite movie, although Maria Zaleska's outfits alone

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Right?

**Annie:** I mean, *come on*. It's a very stylish movie

**Nay:** Yes

**Annie:** Moreso than a lot of the other Universal Monster movies. But the reason I chose this is because, well, obviously I'm obsessed with lesbian vampires and this is, besides an earlier movie, *Vampyr*, which is kind of loosely based on Sheridan LeFu's *Carmilla*, which is about a lesbian vampire which is used again and again in lesbian vampire movies throughout the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. It's kind of like the touchstone. (*Dracula's Daughter*) doesn't use that, so it's unique in that way. But also, because I'm an avid listener of this podcast, I know you guys have done *The Hunger* and *Vampyros Lesbos*, and *Vampyros Lesbos* is kind of like *the* Seventies lesbian vampire movie that you talk about if you're going to talk about lesbian vampire movies in the Seventies

**Michael:** Right

**Annie:** And then *The Hunger* is, you know, new lesbian vampire. But this is the original, the original girl, so…

**Brennan:** The grandmommy?

**Michael:** The OG?

**Annie:** Yeah, exactly. Grandmommy indeed

**Nay:** Yeah, for real

**Annie:** Yeah, she's mommy for sure

**Nay:** Yeah. A hundred percent

**Annie:** Yeah. So, while it's maybe not the most exciting or my favorite lesbian vampire movie, I just think it's very interesting historically

**Michael:** *Yeah*

**Annie:** And also how *hated* it was by these men. I mean, that alone makes it a great movie

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Nay:** True

**Annie:** Anything that pisses off straight men, it's okay with me

**Michael:** Into it

**Annie:** Yeah, yeah

**Nay:** Yes. I have developed warm feelings for many people who I probably wouldn't have just because of the kind of reactions they bring out in people I don't like. So, like, *way* back in the day, Kanye, I used to just love how his arrogance pissed off arrogant white men, and I was stanning just for that. And obviously that's a *real* different story now and we're not even going to get into it, because I will, I mean, I'm not gonna talk about that, period. Unless it's with-- anyway, I don't know who that is, but it's not this

**Brennan:** That's fair

**Nay:** (laughs) Yeah. So, if it pissed men off, I'm like, "What is it? I'm on board."

**Annie:** Absolutely

**Michael:** Can you give me a copy of that? (chuckles)

**Annie:** The history behind the film is, in a lot of ways more interesting than the actual film. I mean, if you just watch it without the context you're like, "What even happens in this movie?" But with the context and it just being considered *so sexual* for the time, which, nothing sexual even happens

**Michael:** Mmm-mmm

**Annie:** But that scene where Countess Zaleska is gonna feed on that, you know, sex worker

**Michael:** Lily

**Annie:** Lily, yeah, Lily, that she hires to come model for her was considered extremely scandalous at the time

**Michael:** *Wow*

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** Did it affect, do you know if it affected either actress's career?

**Annie:** That I don't know

**Michael:** It'd be interesting to look into it

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** Especially Lily since she had such a kind of a small part

**Annie:** Yeah, she had a small part. Gloria Holden I believe had a pretty good career. (to Brennan) But like you said, it ruined the Laemmle family

**Brennan:** Oh yeah. Ruining the straight men! That's what this movie's all about

**Annie:** *Yes!* Exactly, yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** And it's just this little movie that's like an hour and ten minutes long

**Brennan:** The perfect runtime

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmmm. It *flies* by

**Annie:** Yeah, it flies by. Which, you know, to be quite honest I cannot tolerate movies from this period for more than an hour and ten minutes

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** It's kinda true

**Annie:** Yeah, yeah

**Michael:** They get laborious after a minute

**Annie:** Right, right. I just have such a millennial sensibility where I'm like, "Okay, okay, okay!" And for me, like someone who loves old movies, the Universal Monster movies, I'm like, "Yeah. Let's move it along here."

**Nay:** Right

**Nay:** I *love* thinking about what people's reactions might have been to this movie and thinking about how important it is for these things to have been introduced into people's just accessible kind of media, and I think about whatever our current thing is now that feels risque or things that are still pushing the boundaries and how scary it can feel to do that and feel like it really doesn't make a difference to live your life authentically in that way, but it really is impactful to see things like that and experience, being able to see yourself-- I mean, not that you feel reflected in Zaleska, but you know, some people do--

**Annie:** Yeah. I do, a little bit

**Nay:** And that's a good thing

**Annie:** Yeah. I mean, Vito Russo also talks about this movie in *The Celluloid Closet*, which is, you know, one of those seminal books about queerness and film. And I guess I just wanted to ask y'all, *why* do you feel lesbianism and vampirism are so tied together--

**Michael:** Entwined?

**Annie:** In horror films?

**Michael:** Hmmm!

**Brennan:** Ooooh

**Michael:** Brennan! (chuckles)

**Brennan:** I mean, vampires are seductive creatures, that's what they're about. Vampires kind of harness sexuality and manipulation and influence and that is a lot of the things that people at that time associated with women and thought was a danger in women, like, "Oh. *How dangerous! They're gonna make me do things with my penis*!"

**Michael:** I also think it's fantasy, too

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** You know? Like a straight guy fantasy? You see like, even now outside of lesbian vampire, you see older movies and you see what some female characters do in a movie and you're like, "That is a straight guy reliving a moment in his life. Or playing out a fantasy he had as a teenager."

**Annie:** For sure

**Michael:** "Because human beings don't act like this in reality," you know what I mean?

**Annie:** For sure

**Michael:** So I think there's a lot of that *here*, you know?

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** It's a taboo subject but they can tackle it 'cause it's, I'm doing air quotes, "fiction", you know?

**Annie:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Well, it's *not* sex, it's a metaphor

**Nay:** The kiss that never happened?

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** Yeah, the kiss that never happened…

**Nay:** Okay, every date

**Annie:** She gets cockblocked by Jeffrey at the end of the movie

**Nay:** Right

**Annie:** And it's also one of the first vampire movies that equates vampirism with female hysteria

**Brennan:** Oh yeah!

**Annie:** Jeffrey is a psychologist or something

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** He's actually supposed to be defending Von Helsing in the movie--

**Brennan:** Oh yeah, I forgot about that

**Annie:** Right

**Michael:** I forgot about that, too (chuckles) and I *just* watched it this morning (laughs)

**Annie:** Right. And then meets Countess Zaleska

**Michael:** Right

**Annie:** But before this, and I also wanna give credit to Diabolique magazine, which wrote about this kind of connection here. *Dracula*, from 1931, there's no angst in Dracula's character except that he wants to have, to be reunited with his love, right? There's no angst about *being* a vampire in the same way. And Countess Zaleska is tormented, you know?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** She says multiple times she wants to be a "normal woman", specifically a normal woman, not a normal human

**Michael:** Right

**Annie:** Which leads me to believe there's some sort of like, inversion therapy language at the time that this came out, right? "Lesbians are inverted women."

**Michael:** Right

**Annie:** That's Freud's analysis of it. And she's broken up about it, you know? She has a lot of internalized self-hatred in this movie

**Michael:** Right. Yeah, she does

**Annie:** She wants to get rid of being a vampire, she doesn't sort of revel in the darkness like we see later vampires doing

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Yeah, she's very hesitant

**Annie:** Yes

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And very scared of herself

**Annie:** Yeah! She considers her affliction to be an addiction. And they even compare it to alcoholism in the film. Jeffrey, you know, talks about the *worst* treatment for alcoholics I can imagine--

**Michael:** Oh my God

**Annie:** Where "we sit them down and put them in front of a glass and we tell them you can't touch it and that's how we fight addiction." (laughs with Michael) And she thinks of her lust for female blood as an addiction. I mean, she does have one male victim in the movie but it sort of--

**Nay:** Happens

**Annie:** Yeah, it just kind of happens. They really focus on her female victims

**Nay:** Yeah. I mean her desire to be cured is so heartbreaking. And 'cause I think for a lot of queer folks it's like I know I *definitely* when I was young--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Even before I had a sexual attraction to women, I was scared that I was gay

**Michael:** Same

**Annie:** Oh, me too

**Nay:** I was like, I would pray. "Dear God, *please* just don't let me be gay."

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** I cried when I realized I was gay

**Nay:** Yeah

**Annie:** When I was twelve

**Nay:** Yeah. Fucking terrifying

**Annie:** I was like, "Wow. Life's gonna *suck*!" (laughs)

**Nay:** Yeah. I remember being like, "Oh, so you really *are* a pervert." Like, that's--

**Michael:** Yeah, I remember having, "There's something wrong with you."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Adults! (sighs) Yeah. Thank you

**Nay:** (sarcastically) Yeah. *Thank you*! *Happy Mother's Day!* (laughs with Annie and Michael) (normal voice) And it just made me think of "conversion therapy" and obviously I meant to look up 'cause it's rapidly changing, I mean "rapdily", it's never fast enough, but it is changing right now how many states where that is still a legal thing to do. And it just, I mean so easily relatable for all of us, even if we had the best family ever, it's pretty easy to empathize with someone who didn't, and that just kept coming up so much in the movie, and how she really thought her dad being dead would do it and then you know--

**Annie:** Family trauma

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah, nothing works. Like, you have your beard husband

**Michael:** Yeah. (sotto voce) It's not going away!

**Nay:** And you're both gay--

**Annie:** *Yes!*

**Nay:** Which totally happens all the time

**Annie:** Yeah. He was totally like the gay who's just like, "It's not going away, we're gonna be…"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** He's pulling her back to the dark side

**Annie:** Exactly! Yeah

**Sam:** I think that goes back to what draws queer people to vampires. Or, when you were asking about why we connect lesbians with vampires, I know that for me it's, "There's no going back."

**Nay:** Mmmm

**Sam:** And when a horror audience is watching *her* story in *Dracula's Daughter*, we *know* there's no fixing it. And it's heartbreaking watching her try and fix something that once she's been turned, there's no coming back. And I think there's a danger for straight people or us who aren't out when thinking of queerness, it's like, "If I experiment with that, what if I like it? There's no turning back." And it's a slippery slope. I know I identified *so much* with vampire films growing up before I'd ever even *been* with a man. It was just this fear, this thing in me. "What if I like it?" And the part in *Dracula's Daughter* that struck me *so hard* with that was when she asked um, when she was back at her castle, and she says, "But who wouldn't want this? Who wouldn't want immortality?" And it was like, yeah. Okay. To her, it's very clear that the powers that come with it. And then his response, he was just utterly frightened and I think that there is a *fantasy*, right? Of getting to the other side and having those things, but knowing that socially, that's it. There's no coming back

**Annie:** Right. And if you think about it also as I do, coming from a BDSM standpoint, part of the appeal is like, surrender and just surrendering to this person who is just like, attending to you--

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Hurting you but also pleasing you, and those things are so tied together and there's just something really appealing about just completely being consumed by a beautiful person--

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Mmmm

**Annie:** Who wants only you

**Nay:** Whose last name has three syllables. Like you already know what's going down

**Annie:** Right

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Annie:** And you could raid her closet…

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Annie:** I mean, I never understood *why* when I was a kid, I was watching vampire movies *why the people wouldn't **want*** that?

**Michael:** Same

**Annie:** I was like, "Why would you *not* want to stay young and--"

**Michael:** "Stay young and live forever," yeah

**Annie:** *Yes!* "Stay young and live forever in gothic splendor with this gorgeous person!"

**Michael:** And sensuality around every corner

**Annie:** *Yes!*

**Nay:** Everyone is just meeting their needs constantly

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** So hedonistic. I was so *enthralled* with that concept of like, wanting something and being able to satiate that as a kid

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Because I felt like Christianity was so much about abstinence of all kinds, and not only do you have to worry about eventually committing the sin but you also have to feel bad about the thoughts that you're having, and just literally feeling guilty 24/7 for everything that you are

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** And the fantasy of being able to indulge in all kinds of things, as a kid what I thought vampires were doing, I pictured like ancient Rome and just like laying around doing what feels good all the time

**Annie:** Absolutely! Yeah

**Nay:** I was like, "Ohhh. That. I want that, but I know I'm a bad kid for wanting that."

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** Yeah

**Sam:** Mmmm

**Annie:** And what else is there to do when you're undead except lounge around and indulge, and you have all the time in the world!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Annie:** I mean, it's just pure hedonism

**Michael:** (sotto voce) It's great

**Annie:** And like you were saying, even though she's tormented by it, she also knows it's the best

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Which I think is very relatable as a queer person, you know?

**Michael:** One hundred percent

**Annie:** It's very often-- well, I'm moving past this as I get older, but will think about all the things I don't have access to and the way I get treated when I'm in straight spaces and I'm like, "Wow, this really fucking sucks and I hate this." And then, when I'm affirmed in ways that, you know, validate my identity and I'm around like-minded people--

**Michael:** It's the greatest thing ever

**Annie:** There's nothing better than that

**Michael:** Right

**Annie:** So you know it's very much a push and pull between knowing you're better off. I mean, straight people seem miserable, so--

**Nay:** Right

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Annie:** Knowing you're better off but also being tormented by it because of this cultural messaging you get through your whole life, and also as a young person and especially as a femme lesbian, you're told you're not, you know, "You're not supposed to be like that." You know, when more masculine presenting women, I don't want to say they have it easy or anything, I think everybody has it hard in their own way. But there's kind of an idea like, "Oh, you can't save her! She's beyond…" you know and when you're femme, people are like, "*But why*?"

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Annie:** "Men like you!"

**Nay:** Yeah. Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** And you know, "We could save you! It's okay! You just haven't met a guy." There's just, the concept of performing femininity *not* for men is *very* difficult for people to understand

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Oh Yeah

**Annie:** Because we understand the femme arts, which they are *arts*--

**Nay:** Yes

**Annie:** As ways of entrapping a male mate, and the idea of doing it for other women, and especially if you're femme-for-femme, the idea of doing it for other femmes is just very, even *now*, very confusing for people

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Yeah. I, you know what? Everything that you just said, my mind, 'cause I'm like, "Uh-huh, uh-huh." It's so far gone from here now because that's *so*-- it makes me feel so badass to be a woman that loves women and like a sometimes feminine woman who loves feminine women

**Annie:** Right. It's so powerful

**Nay:** It's *so* powerful, and I feel like along my journey of coming out in all these different ways, like I just get gayer and gayer and the peak gay of being femme-for-femme, I feel like, "Is this the end of the video game?"

**Michael:** (chuckles) "Peak gay"

**Nay:** "Am I gonna explode of gold coins," you know, and I don't know what's gonna happen

**Annie:** Right

**Nay:** But because it's *so* damn powerful. And I think Zaleska definitely--

**Annie:** Oh, she's femme-for-femme for life!

**Nay:** Well, obv

**Annie:** Yeah

**Nay:** She gonna die for that shit (laughs)

**Annie:** Yeah. You know, she (chuckles with Michael)

**Nay:** She gon' die for that shit

**Annie:** Yeah, no, seriously though. And she, I mean. I kind of lost my train of thought, but yeah

**Michael:** She just needed to bide her time and get to the 21st century and be an artist

**Nay:** *Right!*

**Annie:** Right!

**Michael:** 'Cause I equate a lot of that stuff with, our queerness, with how fortunate we are to be in cities like L.A. and New York

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And also to proactively work in things we love, too. 'Cause I look back at my roots and I equate just doing jobs for a living as a total straight thing, too

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Like people that work jobs just to get a paycheck. I mean, a lot of us do that, but I equate it with a lot of my connections back home, *no one* does what they love, they do what they have to. Which is great. I think it's honorable, but at the same time I equate my queerness with being here and being able to be a writer. And *struggling* at it, but also having success and also loving what I do. And I think that's part of queer culture too, to me, because--

**Annie:** Oh absolutely.

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Annie:** The world is your oyster, there's no model for you.

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Annie:** You don't have to have a nuclear family setup, even though some queer people do choose to live that way, you know?

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Annie:** It's definitely not-- you know, I always say, "No, I'm a deviant sex pervert freak. It's okay."

**Michael:** People deny themselves wants and needs and things they love just because they feel they have to

**Annie:** Absolutely

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** And I think that involves queerness and *art* and entertainment and stuff. So I just find it super, I'm just so glad I'm here every day

**Annie:** It's amazing

**Brennan:** Yeah. And foundationally, obviously being queer isn't a choice, but being *out and queer* is a choice, it's a very important choice. And at its core, that is choosing love, that is choosing to embrace the things that you love, whether or not that's romantic love or whatever. And that also would also bleed into career and things like that

**Michael:** Yeah. Yeah

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** What you were saying Michael really interests me, because I *love* Christmas movies, made-for-TV Christmas movies

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Sam:** I fucking love that shit. And I also love Lifetime trash. And here's the thing: Doing what you love is the *enemy* of those films. So, if you watch and you are--

**Michael:** You're *so fucking right*. Yeah

**Sam:** It's always the moral. So if you are, if you're a successful person, killing it in your career, especially if you're a woman, you have to learn to go back home, find your roots, prioritize your family even if they're difficult and choose love or being in a smaller place

**Annie:** Oh yeah. They're very Hays Code moralizing films

**Sam:** *Yes!* It is the *same thing*, but it's now. And if you can watch it through that lens, I swear to God you will love Christmas like I love Christmas. It's trash. It's hetero trash and I love it

**Nay:** I love it

**Sam:** But that's what sets us apart

**Annie:** But also it's pure camp too, because it's unintentional camp

**Brennan:** Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** I know quite a few gay men that write those movies

**Sam:** *Oh yeah*

**Annie:** Oh yeah, yeah

**Michael:** And it is very much one hundred percent on purpose camp in those situations

**Annie:** Oh, absolutely

**Brennan:** (to Sam) Have you strayed into Evangelical trash?

**Sam:** Uh, yeah girl

**Annie:** *Oh yes!*

**Brennan:** Like the "fall out of a tree" movies?

**Sam:** Fall out of a tree and pray to God. I'm here

**Brennan:** There is a Christmas movie called *Wish for Christmas.* It's about a girl whose dad is Joey Lawrence and her mom is the mom from *Good Luck, Charlie!* And her parents are super Christian but she wants to go to this high school dance that's on Christmas Eve but her parents want to take her to church! So she wishes that her parents weren't Christians any more

**Sam:** (gasps)

**Brennan:** And God grants wishes, like he does

**Michael:** So he shows her what it's like to not be Christian?

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's like a very *It's a Wonderful Life* thing where her parents turn into atheists and they say things like, (emotionless) "Happy holidays."

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Annie:** Dun dun *DUNNN!!!!*

**Michael:** Ahhhhhh

**Sam:** Brennan, one more time, what is the title of this?

**Brennan:** It's called *Wish for Christmas*. You need to watch it

**Nay:** I'm freaking out. Freaking out (laughs)

**Sam:** I need this in me. This is amazing

**Brennan:** It's *so good*

**Sam:** Can you guys imagine for a second if Christian people were sitting around on a podcast talking about watching queer films? They're like, "*Eating Out 3* changed my life."

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** "That's trash. Pure trash."

**Sam:** (amused) "Pure trash"?

**Annie:** (giggles) *Eating Out 3*??? (laughs)

**Michael:** My boyfriend worked on that movie

**Brennan:** *Really?*

**Annie:** Oh my *God*, marry him now! (laughs)

**Nay:** *Woooooow*

**Brennan:** *Eating Out 3* has the best opening of any sequel of all time

**Sam:** (singing) "Cumbaya…."

**Michael:** It was like when he first moved here and he was a PA

**Annie:** That is amazing

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** The *Eating Out* franchise…

**Brennan:** Oh boy

**Annie:** I had a beard in high school who loved those movies

**Michael:** I love that we get a dick every movie

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** You get a dick shot every movie, right?

**Annie:** Shout-out to Brian

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Also a Brian

**Annie:** But what I wanted to, I wanted to say something about what Michael had said about female vampirism being a male fantasy. And this is something I address a lot, and why I started my own podcast is because oftentimes I find that I identify with the male fantasy

**Michael:** *Oh!* Interesting

**Annie:** In like this weird kind of way

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** And I think because I was talking about this last night with one of my friends; when lesbians make films, not to generalize, but there's a lot of counter action of this history which is, of course, it makes a lot of sense. But it becomes more like wholesome-ish and granola-like. You know, *more* realistic representations of kind of comfortable-- I mean, it is more realistic because it's written by lesbians

**Brennan:** Like what kind of movies are we talking about? What titles?

**Annie:** I'm thinking of like, *The Kids Are Alright*

**Brennan:** Oh yeah yeah yeah

**Annie:** Yeah. And then some movies from the Nineties. There's like *The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love*

**Michael:** I mean *Kids Are Alright* is like pasteurized lesbianism

**Annie:** Right, right. Yeah

**Michael:** (laughs) Like it went through the milk plant and it came into a carton

**Annie:** Truly

**Michael:** Yeah (chuckles)

**Annie:** But then I want there to still be room for fantasy

**Michael:** In fantasy's great

**Annie:** Yeah. Yeah. And there's no, there's few out lesbian directors that I can think of that are making movies that are still this kind of dark fantasy

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Like sexy

**Annie:** And sexy and sensual. And men are not afraid to go there because they're so entitled. So they don't care about doing it "responsibly" or whatever

**Michael:** Good way to put it

**Annie:** Yeah. (chuckles) Which is *fine* for me, because I watch this stuff to fulfill those dark fantasies that I have, where there are no rules and no respectability

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** And there are these dark themes of codependency and all of these other things that vampires can represent. 'Cause I was watching *The Neon Demon* last night and I was thinking about how people really *hated* that movie, especially lesbians because they were like, "Why a lesbian always gotta be evil?" And I'm like, "I *like* villains!"

**Nay:** (chuckles) Yeah!

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Annie:** Like, I like *love* evil women. I think it's fascinating. Yeah, I just think it's such a transgression of what women are *told* they're supposed to *be*

**Nay:** Hell yeah

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** I still find it really fascinating to watch, and when men make it, you know, there's problems. But like I said, men aren't afraid to go there. So in a lot of ways it's more interesting sometimes

**Nay:** Yeah. And I mean, we've *definitely* talked about this before, about how sometimes maybe as queer women, when we're hitting on other queer women or talking to, about, whatever queer women and we're afraid of saying things that might make it sound like we're a man

**Annie:** Like a creepy man!

**Nay:** Yeah. Yeah

**Annie:** That's what we're used to, because we don't want to be objectified

**Nay:** Yeah. And it's like, we are not capable of saying anything or doing anything in the way that a creepy man would do it. I mean, not capable maybe isn't what I mean.

**Michael:** The intent is definitely different (chuckles)

**Nay:** But I mean the point is if I whistled at a woman on the street to convey that I were attracted to her, which I would not do, but say I did. You know, when she turned around and saw that it was me, she could probably assume that if she turns me down, I'm not gonna kill her

**Annie:** Exactly

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** Which is just like a great start! (laughs)

**Annie:** Oh yeah

**Nay:** And you can't always assume that when a man whistles at you on the street. And so I'm like point-blank period, I know that *I*, that I just can't do that. And I feel like for a long time it kept me from hitting on women because I didn't want to quote-unquote "act like a man"

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm!

**Annie:** And be a lesbian vampire predator

**Nay:** Yes, exactly

**Annie:** Which is like, yeah

**Nay:** But I'm like, I'm a fucking lesbian vampire predator, so

**Annie:** *Yeah!* Reclaiming that--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Annie:** Reclaiming sexual desire as a lesbian is *very*… it's a whole thing. Because you're told that, you know, lesbians are just not, it's like either hyper sexualized by men--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Or very neutralized by mainstream lesbian feminists who wanna get away from that sexual representation and that hypersexual representation from men

**Nay:** Right, right

**Annie:** So there's a fear and a lot of internalized homophobia in lesbian communities *about* expressing sexual desire

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** You know, even just, it's radical to be like, "She's hot. I wanna fuck her."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Annie:** Like, as a woman saying that about another woman is, it's a radical thing still

**Sam:** You're giving me a new perspective on a tagline of this film. Because I thought that it was kind of like queer or pointing to it, but no, it's just a bunch of dudes talking about it. But the tagline is, "She gives you that weird feeling."

**Michael:** *Ohhhhh!*

**Sam:** And I thought, "They've gotta know it!" Because when you watch it, I know when I watch a *sexy* vampire, he gives me that weird feeling, you know?

**Michael:** Oh, I remember watching *Blade* (1998), the most random reference of a vampire movie--

**Annie:** Blade is hot!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** (amused) Hell yeah!

**Michael:** But just being like, "Don't kill him. Don't kill Stephen Dorff." He's like what I'm identifying with while watching this entire movie as a twenty-year-old closet case, you know what I mean?

**Sam:** Yeah. It gave me that weird feeling too

**Michael:** Yeah, it gave me many weird feelings--

**Annie:** Gives you that weird feeling

**Michael:** And it was for Stephen Dorff! (laughs)

**Annie:** And we give straight people that "weird feeling", that thing they just can't place if you're not out to them

**Michael:** Yeah

**Annie:** Where they're like, "Oh, he's a little, a little weird."

**Michael:** "He's a little ehhhh."

**Annie:** Yeah! Exactly. Yes.

**Michael:** You're a little ehhhh, too, probably. (To Nay) Sorry for *Blade*-ifying it

**Nay:** Oh no, I love it. You know I love it

**Michael:** Can we talk about (Zaleska's) death, though? I love that she's going through this whole monologue about living forever and then she's killed by an arrow in the stomach

**Annie:** Well, when she finally accepts her gayness, she's gotta die

**Michael:** Yeah! I mean, I know that she has to die based on the code you were talking about

**Brennan:** The DaVinci Code

**Michael:** But they didn't like… I dunno. I'm just always obsessed with vampire rules and like, I guess just--

**Annie:** You are!

**Michael:** 'Cause they always talk about immortality and then in every movie they die. So I'm always like, obsessed with the immortality conversation but then in almost every movie the vampire dies at the end. I'm like, "Vampires aren't immortal in film!"

**Nay:** Like, *ever*

**Michael:** *Ever*! So she dies by an arrow to the stomach. So I was like, "Hmmm. Guess you're not immortal." (chuckles)

**Annie:** Right

**Brennan:** Well, immortality is like longevity

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** You will not be killed by the ravages of time. Your body will not decay upon your

**Michael:** But to me it's like, a simple arrow to the stomach could have killed her at any moment, you know?

**Brennan:** Okay, well, yeah. They probably didn't write the end of that script and were like, "Well, we're shootin' in twelve hours…"

**Michael:** Well they probably had to kill her, they had to kill her

**Sam:** That was the specific moment that made me feel on the fence about giving it a Pride float. Because the arrow comes at the hand of her friend, who to me is very queer. I mean, not just because he looks like Miss Trunchbull, but because *he is* assisting her along the way of this and then with *no fucking*-- I mean, full pivot to killing her

**Michael:** For no reason, he's killing her for no reason

**Sam:** And it's almost like his realizing that they've been wrong the whole time is also, it has to become saving everyone from themselves and it feels gross to me. I fuckin' hate him, even though he does look like Eli Roth in the opening

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** That was one of his early roles

**Annie:** I fucking hate Jeffrey

**Michael:** *Yeah*

**Annie:** It's like, "Why is he such a dick to Janet?"

**Brennan:** Also, he does-- oh yeah

**Michael:** *Why* is he such a dick to her?

**Annie:** He's like an abuser

**Sam:** Because she's fifteen

**Brennan:** Yeah, she prank calls him in a work meeting

**Michael:** I love that she prank called someone in a work meeting in 1935

**Nay:** (laughing) *Right?*

**Annie:** No, that was great. She was like, "It's the Ghoul!"

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Brennan:** Also, he doesn't take Countess Zaleska seriously. She's asking *desperately* for his help and he's like, "I'll meet you tomorrow if I have time. Whatever." You're talking to her right now! Just talk about it

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Annie:** Yeah. I also feel like they had to tack--

**Michael:** And then bumming smokes from her, too. Fuck you

**Annie:** Right. So much smoking. I also feel like they had to tack in there that she actually doesn't want Janet, she wants Jeffrey

**Sam:** Mmmm

**Annie:** That was *so tacked on!*

**Michael:** That was added. Yeah

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Nobody believes that

**Annie:** It's like, "*Why again does she want this guy?* He sucks!"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** He does suck. And he's gay, too

**Annie:** Oh, absolutely. He's--

**Brennan:** Michael, you think everyone in every movie is gay! (chuckles)

**Annie:** He's like a mean queen

**Michael:** *Yeah*!

**Annie:** Who's pissed off that he has to be in this relationship with Janet

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** All the older men in this movie were bachelors

**Annie:** Yes!

**Michael:** Gay! (chortles)

**Sam:** I'm sorry. He was in a relationship with Janet?

**Annie:** Well, I think it was implied

**Michael:** That was his assistant, right?

**Annie:** She's his assistant but I think it's implied that they have some kind of romantic relationship

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** They're constantly going to functions after work together

**Annie:** Yeah, yeah. And he's mean to her 'cause he's like some closeted mean queen

**Michael:** Beard

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Yeah

**Sam:** (Jeffrey) never viewed (Zaleska) as a threat. When he figured out that she was a vampire he was just like, "Whatever. I'm still gonna be in this room with you." I don't understand. If I was as afraid of vampires-- is it just because she's a woman?

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** *Yeah*, I think that's part of it

**Sam:** It's just, he never; it's like, "She's a vampire, dude!"

**Michael:** I was like screaming at the TV, "Bite his neck, bitch! Bite him!"

**Sam:** Yeah! Get 'im!

**Michael:** But drain him. Kill him

**Annie:** But she's much more intentional with her kills. She's like, kind of the first. Well, Bela Lugosi is the first stylish vampire but she's very like, stylish, premeditated, very selective about victims

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** *Yeah*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Very Angelina Jolie

**Annie:** Yeah

**Brennan:** I think Gloria Holden, Dracula's daughter is a better Dracula than Dracula

**Nay:** Absolutely

**Annie:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Brows

**Brennan:** Look, Bela Lugosi, he's iconic, all that stuff. I think that movie's *incredibly* lethargic and boring. This movie, while also lethargic and boring, is better for a lot of reasons because of Gloria Holden

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Every time she's on-screen I'm entertained

**Annie:** The movie's boring when she's not on-screen

**Michael:** Exactly

**Annie:** Yes

**Sam:** Totally

**Michael:** When they trans-- when they go to the cop or they go to Jeffrey

**Annie:** All those bumbling cops that are there for like, comic relief

**Michael:** Bumbling idiots?

**Nay:** Oh lord!

**Annie:** I'm like, "We don't give a fuck! Go back to Gloria Holden!"

**Michael:** Yeah. "Go fuck yourself."

**Brennan:** She literally repeats that line of, "I don't drink… wine," and she does it *so much better*

**Annie:** *Yes*. She does

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** And that scene where she's playing the piano and getting increasingly more manic and terrified?

**Nay:** *Can* relate

**Annie:** *Yes!*

**Sam:** Yes

**Brennan:** *So* stunning

**Nay:** Absolutely

**Annie:** Absolutely. I relate to her a lot. Also, her paintings are *beyond*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Did you get a glimpse of them? It's like a woman in a cloak walking alone with a skull

**Nay:** Yes (laughs)

**Annie:** I'm like, "Yes. *Same*. *Honestly, same*."

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Nay:** And that's the leader of the float. Yeah

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** (to Annie) Thank you so much

**Michael:** Yes, thank you

**Sam:** Thank you

**Annie:** Thank you so much for having me!

**Michael:** We need to have you back

**Nay:** Yes, definitely. Definitely

**Annie:** Yes, I would love that!

**Annie:** (Girls, Guts and Giallo) is a podcast that examines the feminine image in cult and controversial cinema through a queer feminist lens

**Michael:** Love it

**Annie:** Yeah

**Michael:** Love the title

**Annie:** Yeah, thank you

**Annie:** I love the alliteration

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** Although my ex-girlfriend pointed out that there's another word for it. It's not "alliteration", it's something else. No, love her. (laughs)

**Nay:** (dismissive, as Annie) "'Kay. Cool." (chuckles)

**Michael:** (dismissive, as Annie) "Thank you!"

**Annie:** No, I mean, it's, yeah

**Michael:** (faux politely, as Annie) "You bitch."

**Nay:** (as Annie) "Just helping me forever and ever. Thank you."

**Michael:** (as Annie) "Even when I don't ask for it!"

**Nay:** (as Annie) "Yeah, which is my favorite." (laughs)

**Annie:** No, I love it, too. She's also a lesbian vampire, too, so, y'know, respect

**Michael:** Oh, okay

**Annie:** Put some respect on that

**Michael:** She's cool

**Nay:** Put some respec' on her name. I get it.

**Annie:** Yeah. But I purposefully tackle films that are reviled by mainstream feminism, because I often have like a totally different idea about it

**Brennan:** Oooh!

**Michael:** Cool!

**Annie:** The first episode I did *Alice, Sweet Alice* and then--

**Michael:** I love that movie

**Annie:** *Oh*, me too. And then the second episode, because of Brooke Shields, we did *Pretty Baby*, which is a very upsetting controversial movie

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** And one that's very much hated by mainstream feminists, and next *Basic Instinct*

**Michael:** Okay, cool!

**Annie:** Yeah, and that's kind of my thing

**Michael:** Three very different films, too

**Annie:** Oh, definitely!

**Michael:** Which I love

**Annie:** Yeah, yeah. But you know, it's typically seen as products of the male gaze, but things that I love and grew up with

**Michael:** Cool!

**Annie:** So that's what I'm plugging now

**Michael:** Great!

**Brennan:** That sounds so lovely

**Michael:** What day of the week do your episodes drop?

**Annie:** They come out every Friday… anywhere you listen to podcasts

**Brennan:** (to Annie) Do you have any, just real quick, like great lesbian vampire movies that you would recommend?

**Michael:** Oh, good idea, Brennan

**Annie:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you guys know *The Hunger*, that's obviously a great one

**Brennan:** Heard of it

**Annie:** *The Vampire Lovers*, which is I think a Hammer film from the Seventies with Ingrid Pitt. That's the other thing I love about lesbian vampires, too, is they're always femme-for-femme--

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Annie:** *Which* is partly because it's a male fantasy, but also I am femme-for-femme, so for me, it's just a representation (chuckles)

**Brennan:** "Don't mind if I do," right?

**Annie:** Yeah, exactly! *Vampyros Lesbos* is one I always recommend as well. *Blood and Roses* from 1960 is a gorgeous film. And then anything that uses Elizabeth Bathory imagery like the Elizabeth Bathory sequence in *Immoral Tales* is a great one. Anything Jean Rollin, so like, *Shiver of the Vampire*, *Fascination*, any of those

**Michael:** These are great

**Annie:** Oh yeah. I also love *Nadja*, which is one from the Nineties, which has a lot of shoegaze music in it and it takes place in New York and it's kind of a *Dracula's Daughter* revamp

**Michael:** Oh, cool!

**Annie:** It's the same plot

**Michael:** Love it!

**Annie:** Yeah

**Sam:** You can find me, Sam, on Twitter and Instagram at samwineman, or on Grindr if you live in Los Angeles just open it up. You'll find me eventually

**Brennan:** He's everywhere. You'll find him

**Michael:** Yeah