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# Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jun 09, 2015 02:01 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 09, 2015 6:00 PM Danielus wrote:

One IV of 3BP is not enough. Depending on the dose, etc. more are required. Usually, the first IV seems to take part or all pain away when that is present.
Thank you Daniel.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 02:33 PM
Quote | ReplySomething else that I think you should realize is that there appear to be legal mechanisms in place that forbid disclosure of patient outcomes (especially in America).

For example from the wehaveacure website:

"Dayspring Clinic has a non-disclosure agreement not allowing them to discuss their protocol so they have not in principle accepted to publicize results. They are also bound by the HIPPA laws not to do so without express consent from their patients. Itis up to their individual patients to discuss their experience. We are working with one patient who wants full public disclosure of their results. Dayspring clinic may also be operating against Federal Rule even if what they are doing is legal in their state. ..."

It really is startling how this works against the interests of the patient. If 3-BP were a dangerous ineffective product the cancer clinics would not be allowed to communicate this information. This appears to make no sense. However, the counterargument would be that if it were dangerous and ineffective one presumes the clinics would not be offering it. However, it is exactly these sorts of communications that allow patients to choose what treatment will be the best for them. It is not illegal for pharmaceutical companies to publish research on pubmed. It might be for clinics treating with 3-BP.

Posters on this thread have noted that there are also some doctors who want to treat with 3-BP but have been encouraged not to do so.

Another consideration is the Chinese online market for 3-BP. This is an indirect and obscure approach to the question of market size, though it is quite interesting. Chinese suppliers are now offering kilogram quantities of pharmaceutical 3-BP. 3-BP is used as a fungicide. The fact that a market appears to be developing for fairly large quantities of high grade 3-BP is very interesting. One kilogram of 3-BP should be enough to cure possibly 100s of terminal cancer patients.

This is only guess work as it is possible that none of this has actually been sold. There are also several clinics that do not appear to want to publically announce they are treating with 3-BP. Several clinics in Germany appear to be treating with 3-BP quietly.  This might all relate to the commercial implications of 3-BP treatment or the question of treating with a medicine that has not been approved.

3-BP is one of the few medications that is straddling teh line between alternative and conventional medicine. Clinical trials are supposed to begin, while it is already avaiable in several clinics worldwide.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 02:40 PM
Quote | ReplyI was impressed earlier on in this thread when I suggested that we send Dayspring a terminally ill patient funded through a crowdfunding site with full public disclosure of outcomes. I did not think they would take nibble on the bait. They did.

As posted on this thread we had go ahead on that idea from them. They would only have accepted this idea if they were quite confident in 3-BP as a treatment.

I found their acceptance of the idea very impressive and it gave me added confidence that 3-BP is an effective treatment.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 05:41 PM
Quote | ReplyI talked to my oncologist about the treatment today. He was vaguely aware of it, although not the specifics and details of it, and said that there's a phase I clinical trial going on with it at my hospital I believe.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 05:57 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is just so bogus. 3-BP has been making the rounds of oncology conferenes for years. The oncology treatment community is not that large that no one knows anyone else.

This might all wind up having to go to court with people under oath and connected to lie detector machines. If an oncologist  could only give a vague sense of recognition of 3-BP, then it might be a good time to find a new one. Yet, I am sure that almost any oncologist could give an extended lecture on all sorts of approved cancer treatments that have often shown almost no benefit.

There is yet no clinical trial of 3-Bp in progress anywhere.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 06:35 PM
Quote | ReplyNot so sure what bile duct cancer is or how that site might influence response to 3-BP. Hopefully, we are talking about IV. Would be great to have some more clinical details.

I just hope we can call out and get some fast response on the money side from the 3-BP community. If others see that asking for 3-BP support attracts attention they might also seek funding for it. I am worried that if someone seeking 3-BP treatment with serious cancer through a crowdfunder does not receive fast funding their clinical situation could deteriorate.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Tue Jun 09, 2015 06:40 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is great!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 06:51 PM
Quote | ReplyYeah, this is huge.

This is the first patient in 15 years that will have been treated prospectively with 3-BP. It is nail biting time. I am sure we will all have comments about the treatment protocol used etc.. Perhaps our thread could interview the patient, as this thread is probably the most active 3-BP site anywhere.

I just hope we have a clean treatment round to discuss. There have been problems with almost all the patients treated to date. The liver patient seems to have been overtreated, the melanoma patients appears to have been undertreated, and there are questions about other patients we have mentioned on the thread.

As soon as we get the OK from the gofundme patient we can see if there is any money out there on our 3-BP sites.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 07:07 PM
Quote | ReplyOK bile ducts are around the liver and pancreas. Stage IV bile duct cancer is especially serious.

Would they (could they) do a TACE like procredure at Dayspring?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 07:23 PM
Quote | ReplyI think TACE is too targetted for stage IV. The best bet is systemic therapy using IV IMO.

# Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 07:38 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is probably true, though perhaps they could try a TACE like procedure on top of the IV. The bile ducts aren't part of the circulatory system(?) , so it might be easier to block things up and have a clear hit with 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jun 09, 2015 09:04 PM
Quote | ReplyAny update from the Toronto clinic with patient experiences using IV 3-BP?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jun 09, 2015 09:40 PM

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On Jun 10, 2015 1:04 AM Jcancom wrote:

Any update from the Toronto clinic with patient experiences using IV 3-BP?
None. Unfortunately.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jun 10, 2015 04:01 AM
Quote | ReplyHello

Are there any places that offer 3-BP treatment in Europe? Preferably in Germany, Sweden, UK etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by james-peters on Wed Jun 10, 2015 06:25 AM

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On Jun 08, 2015 2:27 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jun 08, 2015 2:22 AM james-peters wrote:

On Jun 08, 2015 2:14 AM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I was shocked. They might have objected to my naming of cancer clinics that were providing 3-BP treatment. I did not do that to market for these clinics. I just thought it would add some credibility that 3-BP is not quack medicine. Some might question the slow pace of uptake in 3-BP. It  appears this glacial advance has a lot more to do with trying to settle commerical and patent questions (than the well being of cancer patients).

I totally agree that when people will no longer tolerate open discussion, it surely is a bad sign that they no longer have anything relevant to say and have clearly indicated that they fear ideas that they might feel uncomfortable with (Does the American Cancer Society feel uncomfortable with the Cure for Cancer?). Teenagers generally try to push their parents buttons with vulgarity. It is interesting to observe that powerful ideas can achieve the same response.

It was especially disheartening to me because when I read through the posts some of the patients were discussing how they were carrying on with yet more chemotherapy. I would not have the heart to delete posts about 3-BP from such patients. It seems like they are taking away any chance those people might have of seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

It should be noted that there have also been irregularities on this thread. Posts have disappeared. We should keep a hard copy in order to see how the past is being rewritten.
The ASC added Coleys Toxins to their quack cancer cures list for years and years. If it was for Dr Lloyd J. Old MD, Helen Coley Nauts and many others it would still be there now http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancerresearch.org/about/history  " target="\_blank" 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That is just ridiculous. I'd like to get my hands on Coley's toxins. I keep hearing that hyperthermia has taken over but the cost is astronomical.
If you can get to Japan http://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp/gan/coley\_vaccine\_therapy\_eng.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jun 10, 2015 07:33 AM

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On Jun 10, 2015 8:01 AM Freyr wrote:

Hello

Are there any places that offer 3-BP treatment in Europe? Preferably in Germany, Sweden, UK etc.
I sent a few to you on private so you can make a choice. We like to protect them just in case so let keep their names away from public space. In this way, its up to them to make it public or not.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jun 10, 2015 07:41 AM
Quote | ReplyI suggest writting about 3-BP on other melanoma forums as well as science forums - it may spark some interest.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jun 10, 2015 07:54 AM

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On Jun 10, 2015 11:41 AM Freyr wrote:

I suggest writting about 3-BP on other melanoma forums as well as science forums - it may spark some interest.
Probably, in order to create awarness we need to jump in and add a link to this discussion on every forum we can. Our most enthusiast member, Jcancom, already started doing some of that. In order to do that even more we need time. And that is a challenge for all of us, I guess. In this context, priority is to consolidate all the relevant info on this forum and hopefully those in need will find it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:06 AM
Quote | ReplyIt will be hard cause of almost complete absence of clinical material proving the efficiacy of 3-BP

What clinical evidence there is? Two patients plus a study on 17 rats. That's all. There aren't even phase I clinical trials. The situation gets even more complicated as clinics that offer 3-BP are mostly "alternative" - that guy from Scottsdale is not even a board-certified oncologist but a practicioner of naturopathy - something that does not belong to the medical profession according to pretty much all physicians.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:17 AM
Quote | ReplyIt would be more helpful to consider the relative (putative) efficacy and safety of 3-BP versus standard of care.

The two published patients had no viable alternative conventional treatments left. Both of these patients were considered medically untreatable. With conventional medicine they had a probability of successful treatment outcome of approximately 0.0%. This would have been well predicted by the tens of millions of other terminal stage cancer patients that had progressed through this end state and had not survived.

Yet, despite these low odds both patients achieved a metabolic cure with 3-BP. Neither of these patients survived, though this was due to factors independent of the cancer itself. Admittedly, there might have been some selective effects involved with the 3-BP patients. It is possible that others have been treated with 3-BP and these results have not been as successful and those results were never publsihed.

Given this background, it does not appear to be medically, ethically or legally appropriate behavior that similar patients are still being offered the 0.0% option when 3-BP has demonstrated such extreme responses in these two patients.
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* Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

# Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:22 AM
Quote | ReplyNew pubmed article on 3-BP. This time in colon cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26054380
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:02 PM

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On Jun 10, 2015 2:06 PM Freyr wrote:

It will be hard cause of almost complete absence of clinical material proving the efficiacy of 3-BP

What clinical evidence there is? Two patients plus a study on 17 rats. That's all. There aren't even phase I clinical trials. The situation gets even more complicated as clinics that offer 3-BP are mostly "alternative" - that guy from Scottsdale is not even a board-certified oncologist but a practicioner of naturopathy - something that does not belong to the medical profession according to pretty much all physicians.
"According to most physicians." Would you expect them to favour more natural methods of healing when they are pawns of the pharmaceutical industry? Who really pays for their education? Who pays for their seminars? Whose articles are they reading in their journals? Whose advertisements do they see on virtually every second page?  I am not sure about Arizona, but where I live, naturopaths have at least seven years of training and much of this is the same as an MD. They have prescribing privileges as well. Our oncologists have been utterly useless and our naturopath has been of significantly greater value. At a party I recently attended, two oncologists were saying that their "hands are tied" and one is contemplating going into dermatology as he is sick of the Jevtana rep and his ilk, as well as the inability to prescribe anything other than "drugs we all know don't work." A local retired heart surgeon with stage IV castrate-resistant prostate cancer took off to a clinic in Mexico after walking away from the useless cancer agency. His PSA plummeted and, while there, he bumped into a colleague from the same hospital who shared a similar story. There is nothing that trained MDs have over NDs - at least in my neck of the woods. I suspect it is the same elsewhere. Follow the money.

Two patients out of very few who have been treated with 3-BP and respond favourably is better odds than two patients out of hundreds who survive current "standard of care" medical therapies.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:09 PM

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On Jun 10, 2015 4:02 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jun 10, 2015 2:06 PM Freyr wrote:

It will be hard cause of almost complete absence of clinical material proving the efficiacy of 3-BP

What clinical evidence there is? Two patients plus a study on 17 rats. That's all. There aren't even phase I clinical trials. The situation gets even more complicated as clinics that offer 3-BP are mostly "alternative" - that guy from Scottsdale is not even a board-certified oncologist but a practicioner of naturopathy - something that does not belong to the medical profession according to pretty much all physicians.
"According to most physicians." Would you expect them to favour more natural methods of healing when they are pawns of the pharmaceutical industry? Who really pays for their education? Who pays for their seminars? Whose articles are they reading in their journals? Whose advertisements do they see on virtually every second page?  I am not sure about Arizona, but where I live, naturopaths have at least seven years of training and much of this is the same as an MD. They have prescribing privileges as well. Our oncologists have been utterly useless and our naturopath has been of significantly greater value. At a party I recently attended, two oncologists were saying that their "hands are tied" and one is contemplating going into dermatology as he is sick of the Jevtana rep and his ilk, as well as the inability to prescribe anything other than "drugs we all know don't work." A local retired heart surgeon with stage IV castrate-resistant prostate cancer took off to a clinic in Mexico after walking away from the useless cancer agency. His PSA plummeted and, while there, he bumped into a colleague from the same hospital who shared a similar story. There is nothing that trained MDs have over NDs - at least in my neck of the woods. I suspect it is the same elsewhere. Follow the money.

Two patients out of very few who have been treated with 3-BP and respond favourably is better odds than two patients out of hundreds who survive current "standard of care" medical therapies.
Freyr, I apologize in advance if this sounds like I am attacking you personally. I am not. Sometimes things look more harsh in black and white than if you were to hear those words spoken.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:42 PM
Quote | ReplyFinding the right balance between optimism and caution with 3-BP has been an ongoing challenge for me.

Some of the thread posters have been highly skeptical and critical of 3-BP treatment and the providers of it. These patients had went through the entire range of conventional treatments that had failed and as a last resort were considering 3-BP. In one instance while such caregiver of a terminal cancer patient deliberated about 3-BP, the patient developed a bleed and did not survive.

After seeing our friends on the thread go through such traumas my position has shifted to endorse 3-BP largely without equivocation for such patients who simply would have no other options. I do not understand what possible valid counterarguments could exist for the contrary position.

At this time the base minimum recommendation that I feel comfortable with is that terminal cancer patients should strongly consider 3-BP treatment.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:52 PM
Quote | ReplyI am not claiming that current conventional medicine is some kind of miracle. I am highly sceptical of it at times too, especially of the overly long and expensive clinical trials - but I also think that many alternative treatments were proven to be bogus - so new ones must be looked at with suspicion.

Why were links to the crowdfunded patient removed? With 3-BP we need more patient cases... A LOt more. 2 cases is not enough and 30-40 would be needed to get a statistically significant sample
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jun 10, 2015 01:02 PM
Quote | ReplyI suggest you guys write here: http://forum.melanomainternational.org/mif/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 01:08 PM
Quote | ReplyI see what you mean about the posts about the gofundme patient. They have just disappeared! Quite a few posts in fact.

I am not sure what to make of that. The gofundme patient is being treated through Cancer Treatment Centers of America. This thread and forum is supported by Cancer Treatment Centers of America. If the gofundme patient has requested that we not report on the campaign, we should respect that.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 01:26 PM
Quote | ReplyI think to a certain extent with 3-BP we are using the There are no Martians argument-- If there were Martians, we would expect that a few of them might be wandering around the streets of one of our larger cities. The fact that no Martian has ever been reported on our streets, our planet or anywhere in the universe gives us good, though not conclusive, evidence that there are no Martians.

A similar argument could be applied to 3-BP treatment. There are now several named clinics using 3-BP. Others probably are also treating with it. The recent price point anounced by the Toronto clinic has removed the economic barrier for almost everyone. It does not seem unreasonable to suspect that quite a few people have been treated with 3-BP already. Perhaps more than 30 to 40. If these patients had a negative reaction to treatment, government regulators would probably be aware of this and would have shut down further 3-BP. None of this has happened. All of this admittedly speculative reasoning suggests that 3-BP is at the least reasonably safe and probably reasonably effective. There are no Martians.

If there are readers of the thread who have received 3-BP treatment please post your experience.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jun 10, 2015 01:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 10, 2015 5:26 PM Jcancom wrote:

I think to a certain extent with 3-BP we are using the There are no Martians argument-- If there were Martians, we would expect that a few of them might be wandering around the streets of one of our larger cities. The fact that no Martian has ever been reported on our streets, our planet or anywhere in the universe gives us good, though not conclusive, evidence that there are no Martians.

A similar argument could be applied to 3-BP treatment. There are now several named clinics using 3-BP. Others probably are also treating with it. The recent price point anounced by the Toronto clinic has removed the economic barrier for almost everyone. It does not seem unreasonable to suspect that quite a few people have been treated with 3-BP already. Perhaps more than 30 to 40. If these patients had a negative reaction to treatment, government regulators would probably be aware of this and would have shut down further 3-BP. None of this has happened. All of this admittedly speculative reasoning suggests that 3-BP is at the least reasonably safe and probably reasonably effective. There are no Martians.

If there are readers of the thread who have received 3-BP treatment please post your experience.
It seems strange that the Tto doctor has not responded to my request for a patient testimonial or any history of outcomes.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 02:41 PM
Quote | ReplyThis might be interpretable as a positive sign. Almost any provider of ineffective cancer treatments would offer you anecdotal or testonmial evidence in support of their claims. There are laws that restrict such practices because such evidence is not scientifically valid. Thus, the refusal of the TO doctor could be seen in a positive light.
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# Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

View all Alternative Treatments Discussions Post A New Discussion1261 Posts | Page(s): Prev 12...117 118 119 120 121 ...126127 Next Jcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 04:40 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is starting to get quite Orwellian. A June 6th post at  10:41 AM quotes my post of 3:54 AM. However, my 3:54 AM post has disappeared.

Note to censors: When you do an edit make sure you do a clean wipe. Please consult the manual 1984 for further details.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jun 10, 2015 05:44 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 10, 2015 4:52 PM Freyr wrote:

I am not claiming that current conventional medicine is some kind of miracle. I am highly sceptical of it at times too, especially of the overly long and expensive clinical trials - but I also think that many alternative treatments were proven to be bogus - so new ones must be looked at with suspicion.

Why were links to the crowdfunded patient removed? With 3-BP we need more patient cases... A LOt more. 2 cases is not enough and 30-40 would be needed to get a statistically significant sample
We all would like to have more published cases, Freyr. I hope and expect that soon there will be more. 3BP is too effective, so there will be more.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 06:48 PM
Quote | ReplyIt terms of going out and pushing the 3-BP message on others, I have found that many patients who are still within the conventional treatment paradigm are generally fairly hostile to suggestions of 3-BP treatment. On this forum I have tried mostly to suggest 3-BP to those patients who have ventured into the alternative mindset. Also sometimes I have suggested 3-BP to those patients who have accepted that conventional treatments will likely not help them and their illness has progressed. I am not sure now with all the treatment choices emerging for melanoma whether I would feel as comfortable suggesting 3-BP to them.

It is interesting to note that many of the successful alternative threads on this forum as measured by post numbers ultimately degenerate to accusations of fraud and taking advantage of desperate cancer patients. In comparison, our thread has been quite civilized.

Also 3-BP occupies a fairly unique position among "Alternative Treatments" as a path to conventional approval is sought at the same time that it is being offered by private clinics. The excessively long delay between discovery and clinical development might account for this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 10, 2015 08:10 PM
Quote | ReplyAny update on the Toronto clinic?

Still quoting $370 IV 3-BP injections?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jun 10, 2015 08:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 12:10 AM Jcancom wrote:

Any update on the Toronto clinic?

Still quoting $370 IV 3-BP injections?
I have no idea what they are quoting as this info was given to me on the phone by the good doctor himself. Maybe he's away.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mahkcots on Thu Jun 11, 2015 05:50 AM
Quote | ReplyIs anyone aware of any institutions either in or out of the US that do or could offer the TACE procedure with 3bp
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by bella20 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 07:44 AM
Quote | ReplyI had 1 IV for 3 BP in SDC by Dr Munoz is only $90 / IVQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMeech90

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 09:18 AM
Quote | ReplyHave you done a regimen of 3BP treatment? How did it turn out?Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterGenelle

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:24 AM
Quote | ReplyWhen I called your clinic the girl said we had to start at $60 000 because I could not arrange for 3BP as I had to sign up for the full treatment for 2 months.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:54 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 2:24 PM Genelle wrote:

When I called your clinic the girl said we had to start at $60 000 because I could not arrange for 3BP as I had to sign up for the full treatment for 2 months.
I just emailed them to ask if one can just get 3-BP. That is very expensive. The CIPAG clinic (in Tijuana) is between $7 and 9,000 per 21 days with all treatments except chemo included in that price. They don't do 3-BP though as far as I know. I will check with them again as they may plan to. A retired cardio-thoracic surgeon from here goes there for his cancer treatments and is very impressed (and doing very well, whereas the local medical crowd had given up on him).
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:28 AM
Quote | ReplyThank you I would like to know. They told me you have to stay there for 2 months and get the full treatment.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:20 PM
Quote | ReplyDo any of the Mexican clinics note on their websites that they are treating with 3-BP?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by bella20 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:04 PM
Quote | ReplyYes I have to stay 2 months , they treat different thing not only 3-BP, but I remember 1 day IV 3-BP is $ 60 or $70 a day. Average all protocol is from $5-6k / week it is expensive.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterbella20

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by bella20 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:07 PM
Quote | ReplyI don't know another clinic do or not , but SDC they have IV for 3- BP , but each day they combine other treatment too, not only 3 BP. So when it work I really don't know which one is working ???Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:11 PM
Quote | ReplyI do not see any reference to 3-BP on the site.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:19 PM
Quote | ReplyA nurse confirmed what my oncologist said about my hospital doing research (or trials) with 3BP currently.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:21 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is very interesting. Could you provide some more details?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:34 PM
Quote | ReplyNot that I can see...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:36 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 4:20 PM Jcancom wrote:

Do any of the Mexican clinics note on their websites that they are treating with 3-BP?
Not that I can see...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:36 PM
Quote | ReplyWow! Are they allowed to do secret clinical trials?

Doesn't everything by law need to be reported through clinicaltrials.gov ?
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 5:36 PM Jcancom wrote:

Wow! Are they allowed to do secret clinical trials?

Doesn't everything by law need to be reported through clinicaltrials.gov "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://clinicaltrials.gov " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">clinicaltrials.gov  ?
Are you referring to the hospital that is apparently testing 3BP? You'd think, wouldn't you? But then NOTHING is remotely normal about 3BP. That alone speaks volumes to my way of thinking.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 01:54 PM
Quote | ReplyOK, so we are talking about a Toronto area hospital/clinic doing a clinical trial with 3-BP which would likely be non-randomized. We could look around the websites of the area.

Anyone want free 3-BP treatment under clinical trial conditions. There just might be a traffic jam at the border. (Perhaps that is why they are doing this secretly).

What did you mean that this speaks volumes to your way of thinking?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 5:54 PM Jcancom wrote:

OK, so we are talking about a Toronto area hospital/clinic doing a clinical trial with 3-BP which would likely be non-randomized. We could look around the websites of the area.

Anyone want free 3-BP treatment under clinical trial conditions. There just might be a traffic jam at the border. (Perhaps that is why they are doing this secretly).

What did you mean that this speaks volumes to your way of thinking?
Really? Princess Margaret maybe? By that "speaks volumes" I was being snarky about the politics of the medical profession. If things are not going the usual route and appear to not even exist, it is likely because somone at the top realizes they DO exist and want to keep it hush hush. Now this surely cannot be a trial per se as there is a strict protocol to be followed (otherwise a patient could be injected with arsenic against her will).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 6:09 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jun 11, 2015 5:54 PM Jcancom wrote:

OK, so we are talking about a Toronto area hospital/clinic doing a clinical trial with 3-BP which would likely be non-randomized. We could look around the websites of the area.

Anyone want free 3-BP treatment under clinical trial conditions. There just might be a traffic jam at the border. (Perhaps that is why they are doing this secretly).

What did you mean that this speaks volumes to your way of thinking?
Really? Princess Margaret maybe? By that "speaks volumes" I was being snarky about the politics of the medical profession. If things are not going the usual route and appear to not even exist, it is likely because somone at the top realizes they DO exist and want to keep it hush hush. Now this surely cannot be a trial per se as there is a strict protocol to be followed (otherwise a patient could be injected with arsenic against her will).
I would hazard a guess that the research department is doing work with 3-BP, not running an actual trial on patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:19 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is starting to get very confusing. The scientific question here is very simple and someone probably answered it years and years ago: Is 3-Bromopyruvate a safe and effective treatment for cancer?

Everything else that we have been struggling with are a variety of socio-polico medical issues that seem completely beyond my comprehension. All of this reversed logic is a little too much for me. I think I should reread 1984 or The Prince.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:26 PM
Quote | Reply:) Jcancom  I hears ya! It never ceases to amaze me that a drug class like chemo got through unscathed but something more promising (but not a money maker) is suppressed/hidden/held up in courts etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:26 PM
Quote | ReplyMy best read on it would be that traditional medicine wants to position itself just in case this goes large. 3-BP is now starting to enter a mature phase and if mainstream medicine does not soon make some of indication of where it stands than it will have fallen too far behind the curve.

Large cancer institutes want to appear progessive and innovative. Engaging themselves with 3-BP would now seem to be a strategically wise idea.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:33 PM
Quote | ReplyCancer patients want to live--and can get desperate seeking the appropriate treatment to do so.  And cost is certainly a factor--most patients cannot work at a certain point, finances have been depleted--well, the list goes on and on.

However, it is vitally important to seek out reputable, trustworthy clinics that may be offering new types of treatments (including 3-BP)--otherwise one could put themselves in a very dangerous medical situation--perhaps making their already serious condition worse.

Already some of the U.S. clinics offering 3-BP have been mentioned on this thread--as well as knowledge of some in Germany.  These, I am quite sure, have qualified physicians and close monitoring of patients should anything go awry.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:35 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 6:26 PM Jcancom wrote:

My best read on it would be that traditional medicine wants to position itself just in case this goes large. 3-BP is now starting to enter a mature phase and if mainstream medicine does not soon make some of indication of where it stands than it will have fallen too far behind the curve.

Large cancer institutes want to appear progessive and innovative. Engaging themselves with 3-BP would now seem to be a strategically wise idea.
Would be great if MD Anderson would further their usage of their version of 3-BP!!!!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 02:58 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 11, 2015 6:09 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jun 11, 2015 5:54 PM Jcancom wrote:

OK, so we are talking about a Toronto area hospital/clinic doing a clinical trial with 3-BP which would likely be non-randomized. We could look around the websites of the area.

Anyone want free 3-BP treatment under clinical trial conditions. There just might be a traffic jam at the border. (Perhaps that is why they are doing this secretly).

What did you mean that this speaks volumes to your way of thinking?
Really? Princess Margaret maybe? By that "speaks volumes" I was being snarky about the politics of the medical profession. If things are not going the usual route and appear to not even exist, it is likely because somone at the top realizes they DO exist and want to keep it hush hush. Now this surely cannot be a trial per se as there is a strict protocol to be followed (otherwise a patient could be injected with arsenic against her will).
It is PMH.Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 03:05 PM
Quote | ReplyI wouldn't have thought it was them. You would think that cancer hospital farther down the chain would pick it up first. PMH is one of the leading cancer hospitals in North America.

Nothing on their website.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Thu Jun 11, 2015 04:23 PM
Quote | ReplyWhat dose were mice in the thyroid cancer study treated with? I mean that study with mice showing 58% tumor regression after 10 days.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 04:27 PM
Quote | ReplyDo you have a pubmed reference fro that one?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Thu Jun 11, 2015 04:29 PM
Quote | ReplyI only have this: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo-meetings.201
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 05:18 PM
Quote | ReplyI couldn't crack it. It seems that it was published in Thyroid Neoplasia (August 1, 2014). Yet this journal does not exist in the PubMed list. Too bad that all poster presentations etc. are not automatically indexed in PubMed

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/book/10.1210/endo-meetings.20
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 05:25 PM
Quote | ReplyBy the way everyone nice going with the PMH headline. I finally figured out what you were up to. I guess we will have to fight tortously misguided organizational dysfunction with our own reversed thinking.

When the global media feeding frenzy begins to intensify about the announcement that PMH are close to curing cancer with 3-BP, then PMH will have little choice but to announce that they are working on the cure for cancer with 3-BP.

Machiavelli would be impressed.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 07:04 PM
Quote | ReplyWith respect to the MD Anderson version of 3-BP called 3-BrOP, one must remember that this has proceeded even more cautiously than 3-BP. It appears that there is no clinical evidence at all for 3-BrOP. Even though 3-BrOP is likely a better and safer chemical it seems that at this time staying with 3-BP is the better bet.

It is interesting to note that MD Anderson is a commercial organization and so the patent and business obstructions that have slowed rolled out for 3-BP should not apply. Given the results announced so far for 3-BP it would not be beyond imagination to suggest that a cancer cure with 3-BrOP could command a price of $1 million.

For comparsion consider a cancer vaccine product that extended life expectancy for possibly 2 months (They aren't totally sure if there was any survival benefit). This product had a market price over $100,000. The problem with marketing 3-BrOP would be that it would probably attract a considerable amount of attention to 3-BP. Many people would wonder why they should pay $1 million for 3-BrOP when they could pay $100 online for high grade 3-BP and also achieve a curative response.

3-BrOP was patented over ten years ago and there is still no patient reports.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20060058383?dq=3-BrOP&h

The preclinical results were very impressive.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 08:51 PM
Quote | ReplyMight someone help out with this question?

Sigma has a methylglyoxal product that has a 40% concentration in H2O (with a density of 1.17 g/ml) [M0252].

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=methylglyoxa

How many ml per day of the Sigma solution should be used to comply with the Indian treatment schedule below?

The Indian clinical

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17.%20Talukdar%20

used this treatment schedule:

**B. Composition of the formulation and treatment schedule**

A stock solution of 0.45 M methylglyoxal is essentially the main component of the formulation to treat cancer patients. Methylglyoxal was obtained from either Sigma Chemical Company, St. Louis, Mo, U.S.A. or Fluka Chemic GmbH, Buchs, Switzerland.

Each patient received orally at a time 8 ml of 0.45 M methylglyoxal diluted in 60 ml of water, followed by a tablet of chewable vitamin C containing 400 mg of sodium ascorbate. The patients received this treatment 4 times/day at regular interval. Taking the drug on an empty stomach is not recommended. This is equivalent to the ingestion of 30mg methylglyoxal /kg of body weight/day, considering a person of 60 kg body weight. Each patient also received orally a mixture of the B vitamins twice a day: B15mg, B62.5 mg, B125mg and B57.5 mg. This mixture is usually a standard composition of vitamin B complex available.

The duration of treatment at the same or at a reduced dose was determined by evaluating the response and general condition of the patient (see below).

The dose of methylglyoxal for the treatment was determined based on the previous in vivo studies describing the treatment of cancer-bearing animals(Apple and Greenberg, 1967; Apple and Greenberg, 1968; Együd and Szent-Gyõrgyi, 1968) and also our previous pilot study on cancer patients (Ray et al, 2001).

Institution’s Ethics Committee for the Tests on Human Subjects approved the protocol of treatment and Drugs Controller General of India also issued a clearance."

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 09:47 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 12:51 AM Jcancom wrote:

Might someone help out with this question?

Sigma has a methylglyoxal product that has a 40% concentration in H2O (with a density of 1.17 g/ml) [M0252].

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=methylglyoxa l&interface=All&N=0&mode=match%20partialmax&lang=en®ion=US&focus=product"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=methylglyoxa  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=methylglyoxa

How many ml per day of the Sigma solution should be used to comply with the Indian treatment schedule below?

The Indian clinical

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17.%20Talukdar%20 et%20al,%20205-222.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17.%20Talukdar%20  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17.%20Talukdar%20

used this treatment schedule:

**B. Composition of the formulation and treatment schedule**

A stock solution of 0.45 M methylglyoxal is essentially the main component of the formulation to treat cancer patients. Methylglyoxal was obtained from either Sigma Chemical Company, St. Louis, Mo, U.S.A. or Fluka Chemic GmbH, Buchs, Switzerland.

Each patient received orally at a time 8 ml of 0.45 M methylglyoxal diluted in 60 ml of water, followed by a tablet of chewable vitamin C containing 400 mg of sodium ascorbate. The patients received this treatment 4 times/day at regular interval. Taking the drug on an empty stomach is not recommended. This is equivalent to the ingestion of 30mg methylglyoxal /kg of body weight/day, considering a person of 60 kg body weight. Each patient also received orally a mixture of the B vitamins twice a day: B15mg, B62.5 mg, B125mg and B57.5 mg. This mixture is usually a standard composition of vitamin B complex available.

The duration of treatment at the same or at a reduced dose was determined by evaluating the response and general condition of the patient (see below).

The dose of methylglyoxal for the treatment was determined based on the previous in vivo studies describing the treatment of cancer-bearing animals(Apple and Greenberg, 1967; Apple and Greenberg, 1968; Együd and Szent-Gyõrgyi, 1968) and also our previous pilot study on cancer patients (Ray et al, 2001).

Institution’s Ethics Committee for the Tests on Human Subjects approved the protocol of treatment and Drugs Controller General of India also issued a clearance."

How do we know that the 3BP is coming from Sigma?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Thu Jun 11, 2015 09:52 PM
Quote | ReplyBecomes I bought it from Sigma :)
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:07 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 1:52 AM kcervantes wrote:

Becomes I bought it from Sigma :)

) I thought that Sigma wasn't certified OK for human consumption or IV.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:30 PM
Quote | ReplyWe are sort of in deep on this one. So it would be appreciated if anyone could help us work through the numbers here. For example, I can not quite reconcile the 1.8 grams MG per day that the Indian clinical trial is claiming using .45M MG solution with 8 ml  doses three times a day. I am only calculating 0.78 grams MG per day with this dosing.

We are also not quite sure what the 40% concentration in H2O (from the Sigma site) means. Is this concentration by weight? How much MG in grams is in 1 ml of the Sigma product?

It is not clear whether the dosing someone has been receiving is 1 gram per day or 10 gram per day. Though there have been some side effects which indicates the dosing has been on the high side. Any help would be appreciated.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Fri Jun 12, 2015 04:26 AM
Quote | ReplyWhat is the therapeutic dose of 3-BP in mg per kg?

What's the most efficient way of administering it?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 04:36 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 8:26 AM Freyr wrote:

What is the therapeutic dose of 3-BP in mg per kg?

What's the most efficient way of administering it?
Therapeutic dose for 3BP IV and oral seems to be around 2mg/kg.

For the second question I have a scientific answer: it depends

It depends on the tumor type/location, patient body, etc. So, I would consider using both IV and oral and if tumor is at/near the surface topical application (with DMSO). If lungs, than adding nebulized 3BP would be relevant.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Fri Jun 12, 2015 05:41 AM
Quote | ReplyIs there some wider interest in 3BP among practicing/academic oncs in USA or elsewhere?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Fri Jun 12, 2015 05:43 AM
Quote | ReplyAs a side note - the gofundme link can be found in the longecity 3bp thread. OVer $4,000 has already been raised.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Fri Jun 12, 2015 08:53 AM
Quote | ReplyI am in So Cal. If anyone knows how to order the good stuff send a private message
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Fri Jun 12, 2015 08:53 AM
Quote | ReplyI am in So Cal. If anyone knows how to order the good stuff send a private message
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 09:01 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 12:53 PM Genelle wrote:

I am in So Cal. If anyone knows how to order the good stuff send a private message
Hi Genelle, what do you mean with "good stuff"?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:05 AM
Quote | Reply3 BP from a good place. It is difficult to get thru all te hoops
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:39 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 2:05 PM Genelle wrote:

3 BP from a good place. It is difficult to get thru all te hoops
Cervantes got his/hers from Sigma. I asked my supplier (He heads up QC at a huge independent natural supplement manufacturer to the trade up here) if he could get some for me. I mentioned Sigma and he came back with a description of their purpose labwise and that their products were not tested for human consumption - either oral or IV delivery. It kind of put me off. I am going away for five days but will ask him what company he would recommend. It may just be a disclaimer of sorts.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:40 AM
Quote | ReplyFYI I didnt get 3BP from Sigma
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:09 PM
Quote | ReplyIt should be noted that the clinics that are treating patients with 3-BP do not have access to their own GMP FDA approved plant to synthesize it. The published patients who had extremely positive treatment outcomes also did not have access to pharmaceutical grade 3-BP.  It would be interesting to ask these clinics what their source for 3-BP is. As a potential patient that would be important information to investigate.

However, my best guess is that they are sourcing from Sigma or some other name brand American or first world supplier. When Sigma notes on their website that their product is >= 97.0 % pure 3-BP, they are making a scientifically refutable claim with legal sanctions if it were not valid. The confidence that people have in these companies is the result of decades of litigation that have punished those who have made false assertions. If Sigma is claiming 3 significant decimal places of accuracy, then they are likely being accurate. The same would not be as true for other places in the world.

The contaminants in the 3-BP bought would be known. molbase provides 5 synthesis routes for 3-BP. Here again we could ask the supplier what synthesis route was used and then know what other products would be present.

It might then be possible to think of ways to purify the 3-BP further. Someone on the thread surprisingly noted that they bought 3-BP (from a non-American supplier) and when it was put in water there was stuff floating on the top which they filtered off (Some of the other products in some of the 3-BP synthesis reactions have a density of less than 1-- i.e less than water). It is hard to imagine that such a basic purification step had not been done.  There might be chemical labs that you could send your 3-BP to that would purify it further. Could also send away for a chemical analysis.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 02:15 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 12, 2015 4:09 PM Jcancom wrote:

It should be noted that the clinics that are treating patients with 3-BP do not have access to their own GMP FDA approved plant to synthesize it. The published patients who had extremely positive treatment outcomes also did not have access to pharmaceutical grade 3-BP.  It would be interesting to ask these clinics what their source for 3-BP is. As a potential patient that would be important information to investigate.

However, my best guess is that they are sourcing from Sigma or some other name brand American or first world supplier. When Sigma notes on their website that their product is >= 97.0 % pure 3-BP, they are making a scientifically refutable claim with legal sanctions if it were not valid. The confidence that people have in these companies is the result of decades of litigation that have punished those who have made false assertions. If Sigma is claiming 3 significant decimal places of accuracy, then they are likely being accurate. The same would not be as true for other places in the world.

The contaminants in the 3-BP bought would be known. molbase provides 5 synthesis routes for 3-BP. Here again we could ask the supplier what synthesis route was used and then know what other products would be present.

It might then be possible to think of ways to purify the 3-BP further. Someone on the thread surprisingly noted that they bought 3-BP (from a non-American supplier) and when it was put in water there was stuff floating on the top which they filtered off (Some of the other products in some of the 3-BP synthesis reactions have a density of less than 1-- i.e less than water). It is hard to imagine that such a basic purification step had not been done.  There might be chemical labs that you could send your 3-BP to that would purify it further. Could also send away for a chemical analysis.
To my knowledge, there is no 3BP produced for human use today. If that would be the case, the difference between what you can get from Sigma (and others) would not be large.

Today, most if not all the private clinics are using the only version that is available, which is officialy not for human use. The hospital in Egypt with the published melanoma case used the Sigma version. So dont worry, it is safe as long as is from a trusted supplier and the purity is >97%.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jun 12, 2015 02:39 PM
Quote | ReplyWhat synthesis route does Sigma use?

How about the clinics treating with 3-BP? What is there supplier?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jun 12, 2015 02:42 PM
Quote | ReplyI was surprised when I did an online search for "pharmaceutical grade" that it does not appear to be much higher than what is already offered. Pharmaceutcial grade seems to be 97% and up.

I would have thought that a pharmaceutical grade raw ingredient would need to contaminants less than perhaps 1 part in a thousand.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jun 12, 2015 08:46 PM
Quote | ReplyThere is some very interesting research on MG. For example, curcumin is a powerful GlO1 inhibitors. GlO1 detoxifies methylglyoxal which is a byproduct of the highly glycolytic tumor context. By reducing this detoxification one method of curcumin`s anti-cancer effect can be seen. A co-factor of GlO1 is none other than GSH.

"Because MGO rapidly forms hemithioacetal with GSH, elevated MGO will, in turn, deplete cellular GSH levels especially at low expression level of Glo2."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510 Lactate release is also inhibited.Combination MG and GlO1 had enhanced anti-tumor effects.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20093988 I am starting to wonder whether MG could be used on the front end of glycolysis and 3-BP on the back end. Perhaps an oral dose of methylglyoxal, curcumin, paractamol and or 3-BP. This might be a very powerful anti-cancer approach might really have to be aware of TLS.

The Indian clinical trial might have been helped by the high doses in India of curcumin. It is possible in a Western setting methylglyoxal would not be as effective.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:36 AM
Quote | ReplyLast Saturday I came home and my legs and arms went cold and swelled up, I could not walk, and I noticed swelling on my neck. I managed to get in bed. The previous day my legs were so weak i spent 2 hours getting out of the tub. I got a bladder infection, had terrible headaches and no matter how much water i drank i remained dehydrated. Because i have had cancer for 6 years I thought I was done. This Friday I saw my DO. He looked at the bulge in my neck and thinks it is an infected lymph node. I was taken off of DCA for a week and a half now since last Fri was to have been an IV. I do not think the DCA was responsible for all this. We are doing a PET scan and I asked for a brain MRI soon to see what's up but I think this is from 6 years of fighting cancer. I think I need to rest and stop trying so much.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sat Jun 13, 2015 02:26 PM
Quote | ReplyIm sorry :((  But its very smart to stay on top of this and lucky you have a DO who can help.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Jun 13, 2015 04:55 PM
Quote | ReplyGenele, you are a fighter and you wil not stop since that is your nature. Offcourse doing nothing is the easiest way ... but not the right way. To make it easy, I think that actually we shoudl not see this as a continuous fight but simply as part of our life. Let me know if I can help with anything.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Jun 13, 2015 05:36 PM
Quote | ReplyI was looking again at the article "Aerosolized 3-Bromopyruvate Inhibits Lung Tumorigenesis without Causing Liver Toxicity" http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/5/5

Regarding the preparation of the aerosolized drug, thsi is what they state: "Powdered 3-BrPA was dissolved in a 20% DMSO:EtOH solution to give 3-BrPA concentration 2 and 10 mg/mL. The solution was freshly prepared every day. Solution formulations were atomized into droplets by atomizer. Aerosol flow was then passed through 2 scrubbers with activated carbon to remove ethanol and DMSO. The resulting dry aerosol flow with only desired chemicals was then introduced into the nose-only exposure chamber from the top inlet. Effluent aerosol was discharged from an opening at the bottom of the chamber. This formulation was administered once a day 5 times a week. Vehicle controls were exposed to 20% DMSO:EtOH solution. All formulations were prepared immediately before dosing. All groups were treated for 8 minutes and continued for 20 weeks."

I was wondering, if anybody knows why they add DMSO and than extract that before deivery? What is then the point of using it? Just to make the 3BP a very fine powder? I would keep DMSO in since that would help the delivery.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jun 13, 2015 06:20 PM
Quote | ReplyThat's the spirit! You should fight this one. Don't get down, feel better soon!

You're in much better shape than the liver patient and the melanoma patient. The liver patient did not have a functioning liver (he had almost no liver function), and the melanoma patient did not have a functioning lung (a tumor filled almost an entire lobe of his lungs) when they started 3-BP treatment.

You were smart for assessing that 3-BP could be a part of your treatment plan before you reached a point in which nothing could help. Waiting to see how the 3-BP story would play out was also a strategically wise move. Now that 3-BP is a maturing story it is becoming easier to have it on your list of treatment options.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jun 13, 2015 06:48 PM
Quote | ReplyThe problem with the methylglyoxal has resolved. For any others on this thread who were not sure about the Sigma Methylglyoxal M0252 product, the molarity of this solution is 6.5. My post of Thursday May 21st,2015, at 3:50 contained an error for this molarity. I would ask that this error be edited by someone from Cancer Compass.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:19 AM
Quote | ReplyThe question about the DSMO:EtOH mystery seems to be related to the problem of having a good solvent and getting the right particle size. They are currently working on several variations to try and address these concerns in nebulizers. So DSMO and EtOH would be used as solvents and then once the 3-BP was in the dissolved in the solution with the correct particle size the DSMO and EtOH could be removed. Raises interesting questions for me about possible problems that might result with 3-BP in normal saine for IV administration. Namely, would the 3-BP really dissolve properly in normal saline?

"To circumvent inherent problems associated with pulmonary administration of aqueous-solution and dry-powder protein drugs, inhalation delivery of proteins from their suspensions in absolute ethanol was explored both in vitro and in vivo. Protein suspensions in ethanol of up to 9% (wt/vol) were readily aerosolized with a commercial compressor nebulizer."

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/20/11103.full

Also interesting what is said about nebulizing versus IV administration.

"When we hear from patients using nebulizers with pharmaceuticals that it makes them feel the side effects just as badly as when the doctors were giving the same drug intravenously in the hospital, we are actually hearing that the medicines are not only being delivered to the lungs but also being delivered directly into the blood stream and systemically into the rest of the body.This  is very important to understand and appreciate because it opens a wonderful delivery system that is important for certain populations like infants, children, intensive care patients and to all those who are trying to care for themselves or loved ones at home.

" pharmacists, respiratory therapists, and pulmonologists endorse what they call off-label nebulization. Off-label nebulization is a rapidly growing area of patient care and in time new research and practical experience will bring us much more information on how magnesium and other agents like sodium bicarbonate, iodine, peroxide and glutathione can be administered directly into the lungs for many difficult-to-treat conditions"

"Aerosolized drugs have several advantages including quick onset of action and low incidence of systemic adverse effects"

http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/nebulizing-magnesium-
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jun 15, 2015 03:40 AM
Quote | ReplyNice references Jcancom!

Based on personal experience, nebulized form seems (still needs to be confirmed) more effective than IV for the lung mets. 0.6mg/kg/day seems to be already a lot when delivered via nebulizer (vs about 2mg/day used with IV). This total dose (30mg for a 50kg person) is delivered via 3 different administrations during the day. Each administration contains 5ml water (pH=7.6), 10mg 3BP and 7-8mg Sodium Bicarbonate powder. The last is used to adjust the pH of the total solution to a pH between 6 and 7. To this solution, we can add 7-10 drops of DMSO, in order to enhance the absorption of 3BP into the body.  The soution is delivered via nebulizer, imidiatly after the preparation.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jun 15, 2015 03:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jun 13, 2015 10:48 PM Jcancom wrote:

The problem with the methylglyoxal has resolved. For any others on this thread who were not sure about the Sigma Methylglyoxal M0252 product, the molarity of this solution is 6.5. My post of Thursday May 21st,2015, at 3:50 contained an error for this molarity. I would ask that this error be edited by someone from Cancer Compass.
Hi Jcancom. Could you pease share with us the conclusions on the MG dosage? This would help to conclude our discussion on MG so that anyone who wants to use it can do that.

Btw, the suggestion to use Curcumin with MG is a great one! Indeed Curcumin seems to be a Glo1 inhibitor and that would increase the effectivness of MG. In addition, based on the same reference and a few others, Curcumin seems to also deplete Gluthadiole, so it will help 3BP as well ... this is totaly new to me and very interesting. One could even consider a strategy using Curcumin IV before the 3BP IV!?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jun 15, 2015 03:58 AM

Quote | Reply

On Mar 20, 2015 8:20 PM Danielus wrote:

Hey guys, here is a question to all: Do you know what is the mechanism that triggers tremour/shivering after anticancer treatments?

It seems that this happens when administrating Salinomycin IV, Curcumin IV (with DMSO) and even 3BP IV. The paper on Salinomycin reports a 30-60min mild tremor after administrating the IV solution as the only side effect.

I am very curious to hear what is your oppinion. Would it be Tumor Lysis Syndrome? Or something else?

Andrew, have you seen such reaction in you patients?
I have an answer to my previous question: that is fast increase of uric acid due to cancer cell death is what leads to such side effects. So when you see it dont worry be happy :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jun 15, 2015 08:33 AM
Quote | ReplyOK, so I have a question.

Couldnephrostomy tubes be used as a route of drug administration?

Might such a route have advantages (for example, regarding targetting, dosage etc.)?

Make that two questions.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:17 PM
Quote | ReplyYou can use a syringe and inject directly into the tube which leads directly to the kidneys.  So if you have renal cancer, Id say yes.  But Im not sure it would get distributed elsewhere.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:50 PM
Quote | ReplyRoutes of administration is captivating my interest. Being able to use all these different dosing approaches allows one to have some direct targetting ability which allows for safer treatment and fewer side effects (as has been demonstrated in the 3-BP nebulizer study noted above). As we have seen with minicells, precise targetting control can allow nanogram scale doses of medications to have curative effects in cancer.

One thing that I am starting to wonder about is the inhalation route. The urls I provided above for the DSMO EtOH question noted that inhalation could be considered a needle-less IV. Do medical people stay with IV dosing simply because it seems more medical instead of actually being more effective than inhalation therapy? Things would be much easier for all of us if we were able to stop talking about IV 3-BP and start talking about inhalation 3-BP as the preferred route of administration.

Also regarding the question posed above, it seems in the mouse study with DSMO and EtOH they wanted a "dry" treatment (that is without DSMO or EtOH) in the actual inhaled product and they went to quite some trouble to remove them (They had 2 scrubbers in the neubulizer). It really seems they thought the treatment would work best without them.

In terms of nephrostomy tubes that is also a very interesting route of adminstration. I wonder if this is being used medically and if it would be considered safe. Having the ability to directly dose the kidneys, if problems were present there, could be very helpful. The dosing that would be required could be very modest, though possibly effective.

It is true that dosing might not be distributed elsewhere, though this would not be essential as other routes are available. Would be good to have some clarifiaction on this point.

Perhaps the treatment approach with the nephrostomy would be to have everything "dried out" in the tube before administering anything. This might avoid forcing any urine back up while the medication flowed in.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Mon Jun 15, 2015 01:31 PM
Quote | ReplyI read somewhere else that 3-BP is highly unstable and that's why it is kept at near zero (Celsuys) temperatures. How do we address the stability issues?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jun 15, 2015 03:27 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, it seems best to keep 3-BP in a cold dark place. Most seems to keep it in the freezer though I thought you were supposed to aim for 2-8 oC.

Also it has been reported on this thread to use a dark room or dark covering for the 3-BP bag and tubing during treatment.

Stability issues also arise concerning the making of a batch of 3-BP and then putting it in the fridge for later use.

There are even stability issues once it has entered the body. Some of the research indicated that it was only stable for miniutes inside the body. However, changing the stability could be dangerous as doing so could increase its potency, safety profile etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jun 15, 2015 04:39 PM
Quote | Reply@Jcancom: is inndeed surprysing to see that the medical world started to give serious attention to the aerosol delivery only very recently, and even more recentlye (i.e. a few years) it has been considered the intranazal delivery for brain cancer ... I though we are more evolved than that ... but OK, it is what it is. I think that the dry aerosol delivery was chousen because that way you may be abe to reach all the "corners" of the lungs. There are a ot lof studies in that field.

@Freyr: Indeed we discussed the stability previously on this thread. There is a good article on this subject entitled "The antitumor agent 3-bromopyruvate has a short half-life at physiological conditions". Essentialy, the stability in time of 3BP depends on solution pH and temperature. Light will also contribute to that modulation. This study found the first-order decay rate of 3-BP at physiological temperature and pH has a half-life of only 77 min. That should answer you question and we should realize that this has implications on the administration strategy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:27 AM
Quote | ReplyDoctor sending me for brain scan today. Thinks headache is brain mets
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:41 AM
Quote | ReplyJetsparkle and i really need 3BP or the other one
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### where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by jaxzjaxz on Wed Jun 17, 2015 01:37 PM
Quote | ReplyI am most interested to buy some 3bp to use as an oral formulation, as an add-on to a DCA-based cocktail I use to treat a malignant glioma brain tumor.

In what form must it be to take orally?

And where do I purchase it? (Sigma has it like everything else)

Dr. Anders Ferry of Sweden
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### RE: where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 17, 2015 01:55 PM
Quote | ReplyGo to the thread where people can help you with 3-BP

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,65701
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### RE: where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 17, 2015 01:57 PM
Quote | ReplyWas the last question on our thread?

The title changed!
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### RE: where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 17, 2015 02:32 PM
Quote | ReplyThere are a lot of people selling 3-BP now. There is even apparently near pharmaceutical grade being offered.

Most on the thread have tried to stay with Sigma or other name brand American/European chemical houses. Sigma has become stricter, so might have to look around a bit. If you have a good cover story (are ordering through a university etc.), there should be not no problem.

Posters on the thread have used oral formulations in the past apparently with good results. You could check back on earlier posts.

It would be much easier to do the search by going to the below url and using the find function on your browser: try the search word "oral". Start with the first Compass Thread labeled "Full" near the top of the web page. There are many hits for "oral" on that page.

Others on the thread more informed could also help you out with your questions.

There is quite a bit of interest now on the thread for methylglyoxal especially in combination with melatonin, ascorbic acid, creatine, and B complex.
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### RE: where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 17, 2015 02:33 PM
Quote | ReplyHere's the url!

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/8.\_Thread
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### RE: where to get 3dp and in what form for oral use?

by Jcancom on Wed Jun 17, 2015 09:38 PM
Quote | ReplyDayspring has some interesting comments about how 3-BP crosses the blood brain barrier. This has been a somewhat murky topic. Thankfully they have provided an update on this important topic.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/why-3bp/

Dayspring also appears to be providing more information on their case studies for 3-BP. They now have 2 stage IV patients who seem to be doing quite well after 3-BP treatment. More detail would be great (e.g. was this IV 3-BP, more updates, etc.), though it is helpful that they are providing this information. The patients they are presenting appear to have had very serious cancer.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/