ClubhouseDB 2021

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 Date
 Participants
* Wu Meng (吴萌), CEO of Giant Interactive Group Inc.
* Zhang "Oliver" Hao (张昊), co-founder of Lilith Games
* Hu "Token" Yilin (胡依林), founder and CIO of Niu Technologies
* Cai "Hugh" Haoyu (蔡浩宇), founder of miHoYo
* Wang "Kenny" Xinwen (王信文), CEO of Lilith Games
* Liu "Forrest" Wei (刘伟), president of miHoYo
* Dai Yunjie (戴云杰), vice chairman of Xindong Network
* Yuan Jing (袁菁), co-founder of Moonton
* Yao Jianjun (姚剑军), founder of Feiyu Technology
* Wu Dan (吴旦), CEO of Hero Entertainment
* Zhong Yingwu (钟英武), co-founder and CEO of FunPlus
 Comments

## Avatars

@DASHHUANG@SUPERMARIO85@OLIVERZHANG@TOKENHU@HUGHCHY@KENNY.WANG@DAWEIGE
1. ↑ The original artwork titled "原神（クレー、パイモン）" was published on October 22, 2020, by トマトーゴ.

## Liu Wei (37:04 - 43:45)

教育大伟哥了吗今天？
Unknown: Did you educate Brother Wei today?

黄一孟：以我们还是稍微重复一下这个主题啊，我们今天的主题主要是各位老板去探讨一下怎么能够把我们的游戏做好，然后将来有一天能够在大伟哥面前扬眉吐气啊，主要的主题是这样的。然后反正，大伟哥刚刚也…
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Let's repeat the theme a little bit. The main theme of today is for all the bosses to discuss how we can make our games better and, in the future, be able to stand tall in front of Brother Wei. That's the main theme. Anyway, Brother Wei just...

我有个建议，就是因为我们要怎么叫大伟哥做人，那你首先你得知道他现在在干嘛。因为比如说，你现在按照我们看到的他做的事再去做，那就做出来之后，几年之后，还是落后。对，所以我看那个蔡老板也在群里，能不能让他发一下言，因为这几天我看他永远在闭麦。
Unknown: I have a suggestion, which is that in order to influence Brother Wei's behavior, you first need to know what he's currently doing. For example, if you imitate what we see him doing now, and then do the same, it might result in falling behind in a few years. That's right. So, I see that Boss Cai is also in the group. Can we ask him to speak up? Because these days, I always see him on mute.

大伟哥也在，大伟哥也在！
Unknown: Brother Wei is here too, Brother Wei is here too!

黄一孟：大伟哥自己在线上，自己在线上，直接问他。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Brother Wei is online himself, he's online himself, let's ask him directly.

刘伟：蔡老板在哄娃睡觉，要等娃睡着了他才能说话。这前面已经表过态度了。
Liu Wei: Boss Cai is soothing the baby to sleep, he can only speak after the baby falls asleep. He has already expressed his stance earlier.

哎，操了，怎么回事？我靠，这样没意思。
Unknown: Oh, screw it, what's going on? I swear, this is so boring.

我靠，大伟哥发言。
Unknown: Damn it, Brother Wei is speaking.

刘伟：那我来说两句吧。因为蔡浩宇在带娃，所以不太方便，我来说两句吧。我今天看那个群，群里面来的，来的同学还是蛮多的啊。我先说下背景啊，其实我们上海游戏圈就是这些，这些朋友其实自己…
Liu Wei: Let me say a few words. Because Cai Haoyu is taking care of the baby, it's not convenient for him, so let me say a few words. Today, I saw the group, and there are quite a few classmates in the group. Let me provide some background first. Actually, these are the friends in our Shanghai gaming circle—

黄一孟：大伟哥，大伟哥，你来之前我们背景已经说过了，但是你可以再说一遍，我们来看看口供对不对得上。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Brother Wei, Brother Wei, we have already mentioned the background before you arrived, but can you say it again? Let's see if the testimony matches up.

刘伟：因为我们平时，我看之前两个人讲完吧，我觉得我们上海这两年新兴的这些游戏公司做的还不错。我觉得有一个很重要的两点吧，一方面我觉得说整体上大家做游戏的心还是比较正的，因为坦白讲，过去可能过去些年有些因为有些所谓的互联网红利来讲，其实大家还是蛮多就不是把游戏当做内容或者是当做一个好玩的东西来做。所以过去游戏行业也是大家看到的一些乱象啊或者说千奇百怪的事情发生。但是我感觉来讲整体上来讲，上海这几年做的不错的游戏公司大家整体上都还是比较守正的。所以说我们为什么可能有机会能够发展到现在吧，发展到现在。
Liu Wei: These friends, because of our usual interactions, from what I've seen and heard, I think these emerging game companies in Shanghai have been doing quite well in the past couple of years. I think there are two important points. On one hand, I believe that overall, the intentions of everyone involved in game development are relatively positive. To be frank, in the past, or perhaps in the preceding years, due to the so-called internet dividends, many people didn't really treat games as content or as something to be enjoyed. Consequently, the game industry has witnessed various chaotic and peculiar occurrences. However, in my opinion, overall, the game companies in Shanghai have been staying on the right track in recent years. So, that's why we might have had the opportunity to progress to where we are now, to reach this point of development.

黄一孟：大伟哥你这个话像是在我们在这个政府研讨会上讲话，放开一点，放开一点。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Brother Wei, your words sound like you're speaking at a government seminar or conference. Relax a bit, loosen up.

刘伟：第二就是说，就是我觉得说本来当时说是拉这么一个会的时候，我连那个Clubhouse都没有，我觉得也就是后来昨天注册了，一起来讲一下，呃，我说我们在这里讨论，其实我想讲一点，我们其实也不是什么装逼啊或者说干什么事情，就说我们确确实实有一点还是我们，我相信其他人也是这么想的，说我们还是想跟大家表达就是至少我们这些在这里的上海游戏，当然还有一些也是很好的不在这里的，包括像我的好朋友，鹰角和叠纸他们。就大家还是非常想非常非常想做好游戏的，非常想做好游戏啊。所以也想借这个机会因为我看其实这两年没事我在这闲逛的时候发现其实还是有蛮多有想法的从业者。
Liu Wei: Secondly, I feel that initially when we were organizing this meeting, I didn't even have the Clubhouse app. It was only later that I registered and joined the discussion. Well, I wanted to say that we're not trying to show off or do anything, but rather we genuinely have a point. I believe others think the same way too. We simply want to express that at least for us, the Shanghai game developers here, and even for some who are not present, including my good friends, HyperGryph and Paper Games, we are all very eager to create excellent games. We really want to make great games. So, I also want to take this opportunity because, from what I've observed in the past two years while wandering around, I've noticed that there are quite a few professionals with ideas in the industry.

我们想跟大家集体发出一个邀请。就是说，如果你真心想从事游戏行业，不管是个人的爱好还是希望未来做一个职业，甚至像今天莉莉丝分钱分了很多，有一个很好的回报，对吧？对吧，我觉得我们上海游戏行业一定是你至少在未来3-5年最好的选择之一。对，我觉得所以我们还是想借这个机会跟在座的，也有很多游戏行业从业者嘛，就发出一个邀请啊，就说因为不一定每家公司都适合你，但是总有一家是适合你的，因为其实大家路线还是蛮不一样的，对不对？
We want to extend an invitation to everyone collectively. That is to say, if you truly want to work in the game industry, whether it's a personal hobby or a future profession, or even like what we discussed earlier, Lilith Games' profit-sharing that provides a great return, right? Right. I believe that the Shanghai game industry is undoubtedly one of your best choices for at least the next three to five years. Yes, so we want to take this opportunity to invite everyone here, many of whom are game industry professionals, to join us. Because not every company may be suitable for you, but there will always be one that is. As everyone's paths are quite different, aren't they?

所以，我讲到刚刚看大家在讨论那个，包括PVP游戏，AI的匹配问题啊。然后，正好大家cue我，我就讲一下，就说我觉得每家游戏公司的路线还是非常不一样的。就说拿我们米哈游来讲，其实外界把我们第一层看作是做二次元游戏，但其实内部不管是蔡浩宇还是我也好，还是我们其他同学，我们自己不这么看。我们自己更喜欢用另外一个词语来形容我们，我们家做的是内容游戏。
So, when I mentioned earlier that I saw everyone discussing topics like PVP (player-versus-player) games and AI (artificial intelligence) matchmaking, it was a perfect cue for me to speak. I wanted to share my thoughts on how each game company has a unique direction. Take miHoYo, for example. Although people outside perceive us as primarily focusing on creating two-dimensional-style (ACG-style) games, internally, whether it's Cai Haoyu, myself, or our other colleagues, we don't see it that way. We prefer to use another term to describe what we do: content games.

内容游戏是一个什么样的感觉呢？本质上他跟做美剧是一样的。就是你们大家看，你比如说最好的美剧对吧，比如说《冰如火之歌》。你们为什么会去看它？它会一季，一季的出，会不停地出新的剧情啊，新的角色啊，让你对这些角色有（感情），（出新的）故事，他的背景啊，故事有趣。
What does it feel like to create content games? Essentially, it's similar to producing a great TV series. Just like the best television shows, such as *A Song of Ice and Fire* (*Game of Thrones*), why do you watch them? They release season after season, continuously bringing new storylines, characters, evoking emotions and presenting intriguing backgrounds.

本质来讲，我认为我们过去这些年啊，不管是我们《崩坏》系列还是《原神》，还是我们未来会做的游戏，我们本质上认为他都是内容游戏。那什么叫内容游戏呢？就是你像做电视剧一样，就是一季一季的更新，他不停地更新内容。这个内容体现在什么地方呢？就是某些角色的故事啊，某些特定的玩法啊，就不停的更新。那所以说，你会看到，其实我们的游戏也会有很大特点，就是我们不更，我们更新新的内容和版本，那可能DAU和收入就上来了，但我们不更新内容，用户就自然去长草了。就我们一直会把我们自己做的游戏定义成内容游戏。
In essence, I believe that over the past few years, whether it's our *Honkai* series, *Genshin Impact*, or the games we will develop in the future, we fundamentally see them as content games. What does it mean to be a content game? It means constantly updating and providing new content, just like producing television dramas season by season. Where does this content manifest? It's in the stories of certain characters, in specific gameplay features, and through continuous updates. So you will see that our games also have distinct features. We don't just make updates, we create new content and versions. This may increase DAU (daily active users) and revenue, but if we don't update the content, users will naturally lose interest. We always define our games as content games.

对于我们内容游戏来讲呢，呃，那我们过去其实在核心玩法的创新上，其实没有那么擅长的。所以一直以来，其实我认为，我们米哈游在这个核心玩法的迭代上是相对比较保守的。我们过去有很大的一个程度是，所谓的站在这个巨人的肩膀上。我觉得，坦白讲，不管是我们《崩坏学园2》、《崩坏3》，还是现在《原神》，都还是站在这个行业巨人的肩膀上，然后做了一些我们自己的，就是适合我们、米哈游的迭代和创新吧。所以我们一直是这样一个路线。
Speaking of our content games, well, in terms of innovation in core gameplay, we haven't been particularly strong. So, I believe that miHoYo has been relatively conservative in iterating on core gameplay. We have largely relied on standing on the shoulders of giants. To be honest, whether it's our *Houkai Gakuen 2*, *Honkai Impact 3*, or now *Genshin Impact*, we are still standing on the shoulders of industry giants while incorporating our own iteration and innovation, which suits miHoYo. This has been our approach all along.

那其实从2014年我们《崩坏学院2》发展起来之后，我们很明确，我们是做内容游戏。那我们既然在核心玩法的迭代上我们相对来讲没有那么清晰，那我们就会在自己的生产能力上面。
Since 2014, when we started with *Houkai Gakuen 2*, we have been clear that we are in the content game industry. Regarding the iteration of core gameplay, we may not have been as clear, but we have focused on enhancing our production capabilities.

生产能力，大家能够看得到的，就是我们的美术和我们的技术。所以你会看到，这些年其实当然，一方面，我们在这个游戏设计上也在不断的学习和精进啊，但因为游戏设计这件事情，他不是一家公司之力可以做到的。就我们更多的是在，更多的是在包括美术、技术的这种核心生产力上面做一个很大提高。所以你会看到，这是我们《原神》，其实花的，前后花了将近4年的时间，投入人力超过400个研发人员。所以我们肯定，对于我们米哈游来讲，我们未来肯定是会坚定的在内容游戏这条路上持续的走。
The production capacity that everyone can see lies in our art and technology. So you will see that over the years, of course, on one hand, we have been continuously learning and improving in game design, but game design is not something that a single company can accomplish alone. We focus more on enhancing the core production capabilities, including art and technology. Therefore, you will see that for our game *Genshin Impact*, it took nearly four years in total, with the involvement of over 400 development personnel. We are confident that miHoYo will continue to firmly walk on the path of content games in the future.

那对于我们来讲呢，最重要的一个内部最重要的一个理念就是工业化。我们会把我们做的游戏啊，像欧美的这些主机游戏，他们的这种生产能力，包括能够让超过1,000人做游戏。啊，能够大家1,000人做的游戏啊，整个美术品质啊，包括程序的质量也能够很统一啊。我们会坚定不移的在这条路上走下去。这就是我们米哈游的生存之道。其实一定程度上来讲，跟群里面其他的老板的路线还是不太一样的。对，就我觉得，这是目前为止，这是我们的生存路线。
For us, the most important internal concept is industrialization. We will make our games, like those console games in Europe and America, with the production capacity that allows over 1,000 people to work on a game. Yes, a game that can be developed by a team of 1,000 people, ensuring consistent art quality and program excellence. We will steadfastly continue on this path. This is the survival strategy of miHoYo. In a way, it differs from the strategies of other bosses in the industry. Yes, I believe this is our current survival route.

## Liu Wei, Huang Yimeng (54:22 - 1:01:07)

This section's Chinese transcript contains errors and has yet to be refined.Therefore, the translations are innaccurate to a degree.
呃，我觉得大伟哥，其实选择这条路是完全正确的啊。我觉得刚才大伟哥比较谦，比较谦虚啊，说这个，因为米哈游这个核心方法，这个不擅长，所以得生产力，我觉得其实不是。我觉得核心方法不是你还不擅长，是全中国没有人擅长。我觉得就是第一点。我第二点就是，中国的生存环境本质上就是相对，你怼生产力这个事情，它是相对有路径的。你，你让我们真的盲目搞创新，带着几百上千搞创新，那就这就不是在中国去干的事。所以我觉得，大伟哥这个指引的那个路线，我们是这个特别支持。
Unknown: Um, I feel that Brother Wei's choice of this path is completely correct. I think Brother Wei was quite humble just now, humble indeed. He mentioned that because miHoYo is not skilled in the core method, the productivity might not be sufficient. In my opinion, it's not about the core method being something you are not good at; it's that no one in China is good at it. That's my first point. My second point is that China's survival environment is fundamentally relative. When it comes to confronting productivity, there are relative paths. If we blindly pursue innovation, trying to innovate with hundreds or thousands of innovations, then that's not something we can achieve in China. So, I believe that the roadmap guided by Brother Wei is something we particularly support.

刘伟：我其实想请教大家一个问题啊，因为大家也是做这个游，呃就是探讨怎么做游戏吗？然后我其实我们自己也很多困惑啊，就是你就看，我就看，比如说呃，像那个... 但我觉得就是，就是，我我我心目中这个，这个就是过去那种大品类肯定做的最好的，肯定是肯定腾讯吗？比如说不管是MOBA啊还是这个吃鸡就叫战术竞技，这个类叫“吃鸡”类，对吧？但是其实这个，其实都是可能整个全世界的游戏行业，可能从从上千个木的里面迭代出来的，对不对？然后才出来这样的机会，对不对？
Liu Wei: I actually want to ask everyone a question. Since we are all in this industry, we are discussing how to make games, right? But, to be honest, I have many doubts myself. For example, you see, I see, for instance, like that... But what I feel is, in my mind, those big genres in the past were undoubtedly done best, right? Is it definitely Tencent, for instance, whether it's MOBA or this battle royale called tactical competition, or the genre called "chiju" (games similar to *PUBG: Battlegrounds*), right? But, in reality, all of these might have emerged from countless iterations in the global gaming industry, isn't that right? And only then did such opportunities emerge, right?

当然可能腾讯过去生产力比较强，所以他就呢，他就把他就是只是这个最最大的... 对那我想问大家，你怎么看？比如说再往后呢，大家说都说这个7-8年就会有一个游戏行业的明珠出来，对吧？这第一个1-8年是哦吧，对吧？第二个1-8年可能是这个战术经济，对不对？那大家觉得后面他会是一些什么样的方向呢？可能才会符合这种所谓叫游戏行业的明珠呢。
Of course, Tencent may have had a strong productivity in the past, so they simply aimed to be the biggest... So, I want to ask all of you, how do you see this? Looking further ahead, everyone says there will be a "gem" in the gaming industry in 7-8 years, right? The first 1-8 years are, oh, right? The second 1-8 years might be this tactical economy, right? So, what do you all think the direction will be in the future? Perhaps it will fit into this so-called "gem" of the gaming industry.

黄一孟：你要问我，我肯定觉得会有啊。我们现在自己就有在做哈哈，就是，但是，但是我就是这样的。我我觉得你做宣传竞技游戏，不需要去把自己对标到，完全不需要对标到这个，至少对于我们来说，完全没必要去对标到这个像像像《王者荣耀》或者说像，怕不是这种那么高的一个一个一个来往。其实哪怕我们去找一些相对来说不同的一些品类，不一样的新鲜的一些东西，哪怕向身上排队或者他全身大幅赚钱，都已经做到1,000多1,000多万的敌人优了。这道完全是值得去做的。他如果找到一些更好的方式，能够更长久更持续的去运营的话，肯定是非常值得去做的。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: If you ask me, I'm sure there will be, yes. We are currently working on it, haha. However, I feel that when you're creating promotional competitive games, you don't need to directly compare yourself to, no need to completely benchmark against, something like, well, like *Honor of Kings* or similar high-profile games. At least for us, it's not necessary to be fixated on competing with those big titles directly, one after another. In fact, even if we explore relatively different genres, offer something unique and fresh, even if it means starting from scratch or making huge profits in other areas, we have already achieved considerable success. It's definitely worth doing. If we find better ways to operate and sustain our games for the long term, it's certainly worth doing.

我觉得品类肯定非常非常多，然后靠大公司一定是做不完的，会有会有会有会有很多。我是觉得会有很多的机会的，但是并不一定说这个机会一定要超过《王者荣耀》才算是机会。
I believe there are numerous gaming genres, and even big companies can't cover them all. There will be, there will be, there will be plenty of opportunities. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that these opportunities must surpass *Honor of Kings* to be considered valuable opportunities.

刘伟：啊对对没错，我没说超过《王者荣耀》是机会。我只是说就类似这样的方向，对不对？就是，那比如说对于我们这样的公司来讲，那那就是那那那，那比如全中国游戏行业，大家都在等着这个游戏行业的明珠出现了，也就是大家... 你认为他会最终会以什么样的路径出来呢？因为其实整个移动游戏行业，其实在中国还是走在世界比较前列的嘛，对吧啊。
Liu Wei: Ah, yes, that's right. I didn't say surpassing *Honor of Kings* is an opportunity. I just meant it's a direction similar to that, right? For example, for companies like ours, it's like, well, like that, that's the case. For instance, in the whole Chinese gaming industry, everyone is waiting for the emergence of a shining gem in the gaming industry. That's what... What do you think will be the ultimate path for it to come out? Because, in reality, the entire mobile gaming industry is actually leading globally, right?

黄一孟：这个不能问我，问我问问我。我就说是我们对啊。这还是说，还是问其他几位老板吗？
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: I can't answer that; don't ask me, ask, ask someone else. I can only say that we are optimistic about it. Should we ask the other bosses?

砸北岳天堂，这个才是今天晚上的主题啊，对吧？谁能做出来，不就才能教大伟哥做人吗？
Unknown: "Transcription missing," that's the theme for tonight, right? Who can achieve that? Only then can we teach Brother Wei some life lessons, right?

黄一孟：本来我本来今天其实确实本来是想问一下大家，就除了大伟哥以外啊，其他几位老板，包括我们自己可以回答一下，就是大家都觉得自己各自什么时候能够做出一款《钓鱼人生》这样的游戏。大家都要各自展望一下自己什么时候能在这个大伟哥面前。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Actually, initially today, I indeed wanted to ask everyone, except Brother Wei, including the other bosses and ourselves, when do you all think you can create a game like *Fishing Life*? Everyone should have their own expectations and look forward to the day you can present it before Brother Wei.

抬起头来好不好？
Unknown: Can you lift your head up?

刘伟： 你先来啊。
Liu Wei: You go first.

黄一孟：哈哈哈哈哈哈，可以可以可以。我觉得我就是这样的，就我呃我们我们现在是有有有。我们现在至少有两款薰衣机及游戏，是在线上在测的。然后我会觉得呃，对我来说我我呃，我就这样说吧，就我是。还是啊，人生的压力实在太大了。他所辞他所这个得到的一个成绩，啊，输入也好。我觉得我未必是以这种方式来去来去衡量吗？但是我对我们自己的项目的期待，真的还是希望我们比如说我们现在在做的两款宣传竞技游戏，他本身上线是能够成为非常体面的游戏。他能够比如说以超越10年的生命周期，长期的去维护下去的这样的一个一个方向。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Hahaha, yes, yes, yes. I think that's just how it is. Currently, we indeed have, we have at least two console games in testing online. And I have this feeling, um, for me, well, I feel like the pressure in life is just too much. He, he mentioned this achievement he obtained, and it's also fine, but I might not necessarily measure myself in the same way, right? But, regarding our own projects, I truly hope that, for instance, the two promotional competitive games we are working on, when they go live, they will become very decent games and can be maintained for an extended period, like beyond ten years, following a long-term direction.

我觉得做到那一点，我觉得对我们来说就是成功的。然后我还是觉得，呃，《轩辕传奇》领域其实是有非常大的用户的需求的，因为很简单。你你现在随便拿出一款学员积极游戏，你会发现用户的心境量是完全不缺的。那剩下的就是变成了是我们怎么去做好服务以及怎么样去做刚才我聊到的所谓的辛苦活。能够持续的往当中去加内容，让玩家留在我们这个品类品类这个这款游戏当中啊。
Achieving that, I think, would mean success for us. And, I think achieving that point, for us, is a success. And I still believe that, um, there is a significant demand for *The Legend of Xuanyuan* in the gaming market because it's quite simple, you can take any game in the market that caters to enthusiastic players, and you will find that user engagement is definitely not lacking. The remaining aspect is how to provide good service and how to continuously add content, as I mentioned earlier, to keep players engaged in our category and this game.

所以我站在我的角度，肯定是觉得是有机会的。就是就是其实用户群的这个玩新的类型游戏的诉求是非常非常非常的强的，所以机会肯定是在的。然后呃，我们也是愿意去做。当然我我说实话，我们除了训练进去游戏以外，也会有一些相对来说这个这个呢比较比较怎么说呢也比较保守吧，就是比较传统的项目。比如说项目火炬之光也在做啊，我觉得也也也肯定是不错的，但是《火炬之光》的他叠布类整个游戏的这个定位啊方向来说其实你要你今天要我说要要要要要超过要达到原声加大有个做人肯定是有难度。
So, from my perspective, I'm sure there are opportunities. Actually, the demand from users for new types of games is very, very strong. So, the opportunity definitely exists, and we are willing to pursue it. Of course, I'll be honest, besides venturing into game development, we will also have some relatively conservative endeavors, more like traditional projects. For example, the *Torchlight* project (Runic Games) is also in progress. I think it will be good as well, but positioning the whole game as a cloth model, if you ask me, requires extraordinary effort to be successful.

但是我们选那个方向，肯定也是能够有机会能够做持续更新的，做长期的这个辛苦活的。包括就又说回来，哪怕你说“暗黑”类的游戏能不能做，做内容做服务能够持续的做，我也觉得是可以做的。这个是我也是我们想去做探索的。就当我这款游戏上线之后，我能不能以赛季的形式不断的去更新，不断的去增加内容。然后这冠军又又又回到刚才好像是新闻问的，就说他说觉得比如说能消耗的，才是内容。其实我们我们我觉得所有的人一定都在试图找一种方式，就比如说怎么样让内容能够被反复的消耗，能被消耗的更多。其实越是能被消耗的更多，你的内容的这个价值也就会越大啊。
However, choosing that direction definitely provides opportunities for continuous updates and long-term hard work. This includes, as I mentioned earlier, whether it's possible for games like *Diablo* to continuously produce content and provide services in the long term. I also believe it's achievable. This is something we want to explore. For example, once this game is launched, can we continuously update it in a seasonal format, adding more content? And then, coming back to what was mentioned earlier, someone asked if the consumption of content is the essence. I believe all of us are trying to find a way to make content be consumed repeatedly, to make it more valuable.

我觉得这也是我们不管是像我们在做“暗黑”类的游戏也好，还是在我们在做训练基地的游戏也好，非常关心的一个点。就我同样花那么大力气做内容了，怎么样能够让内容的价值更大。比如说训练那个训练基地的事情，他不用不用呃很容易理解吗？比如我们每做一个新角色，这个新角色不但会被新新的玩家去消耗，同时所有的玩家在玩的过程当中能够遇到这个新的角色，产生新的博弈，产生新的新鲜感，这就是内容能够被反复消耗，他能够持续的消耗下去，而不只被消耗一次。
This is something we are very concerned about, regardless of whether we are working on games like *Diablo* or the training-base type. Just like I put a lot of effort into creating content, how can we maximize its value? For example, when we create a new character, not only will it be consumed by new players, but also by all players during their gameplay, creating new interactions and a sense of freshness. This is how content can be consumed repeatedly, maintaining its value and not being used only once.

那比如做其他类的游戏，比如说做赛季类的游戏，其实也是内容被反复消耗。我们今天市面上呃，像《率土之滨》也算是这个赛季类的游戏吗？他就是做到内容被反复消耗，他也是有意义的。那我们做暗黑也是一样，做暗黑类游戏能不能做到赛季内容被反复消耗，能够让游戏有更多的内容，能够让游戏越来越好玩，每个更新能够性价比更高，这都是我们要去挑战的。这都是我们要去挑战的。好像稍微有点差，但是我会觉得，我们的目标是今年逐渐让大伟哥刮目相看。然后，争取明后年能够教大伟哥做人。
So, whether it's creating different game genres or seasonal games, the key is content being consumed repeatedly. For example, games like *Infinite Borders* on the market today, would you consider them to be in the seasonal genre? It means content is consumed repeatedly, and it is meaningful. So, it's the same for us in developing *Diablo*-like games. Can we achieve content consumption through seasons, adding more content, and making the game more and more fun, with each update offering a high cost-performance ratio? These are the challenges we need to take on. It might seem a little far-fetched, but I believe that our goal is to gradually earn Brother Wei's respect this year. And then, we strive to teach Brother Wei lessons by the year after next.

刘伟：好了，我的发言（结束）没有。我现在压力非常大，我觉得现在那个Dash也好，这个信文也好，已经是天天教我做人的。我这个压力非常大，我最近的，我前两天和信文说，我最近几个月都都睡不好，每天晚上都做梦在考试，而且考题都不会哦。我一直找不到原因，现在我找到了，就是因为你们。
Liu Wei: Alright, my speech is done. Right now, I'm under a lot of pressure. Whether it's Dash or Xinwen, they've become my mentors in daily life. The pressure on me is immense. Just the other day, I told Xinwen that I haven't been sleeping well for the past few months. Every night, I dream about exams, and I can't answer any of the questions. I've been unable to figure out the reason for this, but now I have: it's because of you guys.

黄一孟：大伟哥，你不要这样，你不要好胜心太强。你要等等我们，让我们对啊，让我们这个…
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Brother Wei, you shouldn't be like this. You shouldn't have such a strong competitive spirit. You should wait and let us, support us, and let us...

## Cai Haoyu (1:16:40 - 1:23:40)

蔡浩宇：我想插一句！我想插一句！就是刚才其实，信文讲的东西，其实我非常非常非常认同。就是，很多部分其实我都非常非常认同，因为Dash，其实就不光之前在这个群啊，就是两三天前也是看到很多群里，然后大家会讲到《原神》这个东西。呃，其实我是觉得呢，就是说《原神》明显是一个overestimated的产品，就是他并没有这个，就是像大家讲的这个样子，它好像有这么好的一个成绩，然后大家会讲这件事呢，包括Dash会讲这件事，其实我也很理解。不过就是说，呃，也并不是说大家要做《原神》这样一款产品，而是说希望做一款产品，其实也能够取得一个很好的成绩。
Cai Haoyu: I want to interject! I want to interject! Just now, actually, the things that Xinwen talked about, actually, I really, really, really agree. Actually, I agree very, very much with many parts, because of Dash. Actually, not just before in this group, but also two or three days ago, I saw it in many groups, and then everyone talks about *Genshin Impact*. Um, actually, I think, *Genshin Impact* is obviously an overestimated product. It doesn't have what everyone says, it doesn't have such a great achievement as people talk about. And then everyone talks about this thing, including Dash discussing this thing, and I also understand. However, it doesn't mean that everyone has to make a product like *Genshin Impact*, but rather hopes to make a product that can also achieve good results.

那《原神》我估计把它当成一个代号，他也不等于说米哈游做的这款产品，但实际上《原神》其实在我看来，之所以大家会拿这个标签去说事情，只是因为他可能是在一个social media上，可能是一个比较吸量的一个topic，对不对，从我们第一次CB1的时候，这个release就开始炒，okay，一直都有argument，持续到现在，有很多的科里发言，这都很正常。我觉得其实他只代表的是这么一件事情，那我为什么说，但是就是为什么说，我其实非常同意刚才信文所说的这个观点呢，就是因为内容行业本身，其实他就是百花齐放的，因为这个是由这个市场和用户的需求决定的。
So I estimate *Genshin Impact* as a codename. It doesn't mean that it's the product made by miHoYo. But in reality, *Genshin Impact*, in my opinion, the reason why everyone uses this label to talk about things is simply because it may be a topic that attracts a lot of attention on social media, right? Since our first closed beta (CB1), this release has been hyped, okay, there have been ongoing arguments, continuing until now, with many comments from the community. It's all normal. I think it actually represents just this one thing. So why am I saying this? But why am I saying this? Actually, I strongly agree with the viewpoint Xinwen just mentioned. It's because the content industry itself is a diverse one, as it is determined by the market and the demands of users.

其实《原神》上线前和上线后，呃，就是我自己其实也都是非常焦虑的。焦虑的原因是什么呢，对吧那上线前，你不知道他成绩究竟怎么样。上线后呢，你手里牌打完了，你之后不知道又是几年后的事情。那么这个其实直观的感受其实是很正常的，但是另外一个情况，其实为什么会焦虑呢，就是因为，其实内容产品他就是满足了，他一定不可能说一个内容产品去满足所有用户的需求满足所有市场需求。他只是满足了这个市场中某一类的用户的需求。
Actually, before and after the release of *Genshin Impact*, um, I myself was also very anxious. What caused the anxiety? Well, before the release, you don't know how it will perform. After the release, you've played your cards, and you don't know what will happen years later. So, this intuitive feeling is actually quite normal. But another reason for the anxiety is that a content product can never satisfy all users' and market demands. It only caters to the needs of a certain group of users within the market.

嗯，你如果比如说我们拿《原神》第一，你去问很多的不管是现在room上面的还是下面的。其实各个公司产品比，它并不是一个DAU最高的游戏。它比沐瞳做的游戏DAU也要低啊。对不对，然后这个它比信文他们的DAU可能也要低啊然后这。它只是一个细分领域中的，垂直品类的这么样的一个产品。但是内容产业，之所以它有趣，对不对。包括说能给大家有这么多的机会其实就是因为用户的需求是细分的，而且这个世界上，其实我相信还存在着很多其实没有被，充分挖掘出来的很有潜力的这样的需求。
Well, if we take *Genshin Impact* as an example and ask many people, whether in the room above or below, it's not the game with the highest DAU (daily active users) compared to other company products. Its DAU is even lower than the games developed by Moonton. Right? And compared to Xinwen's product, its DAU might also be lower. It is simply a product within a specific vertical category, a niche within the industry. However, the content industry is interesting because of the diverse user demands, right? It provides many opportunities because user demands are segmented, and in this world, I believe there are still many untapped and potential demands.

就是说可能只有其实我相信还存在着很多其实没有被，充分挖掘出来的，很有潜力的这样的需求。就是说可能只有，某一天某一个产品爆炸了然后摆在他们眼前，摆在大家眼前，那么大家才会去看到这样的产品。其实，这也是我们本身或者说我自己。我作为一个内容创作者，我认为，我后来想明白了这是我焦虑的源泉。
In other words, there may be many untapped and potential demands that have not been fully explored. It's possible that only when a certain product explodes and presents itself in front of everyone's eyes will they notice such a product. This is something I, as a content creator, believe. I later realized that this is the source of my anxiety.

焦虑的源泉是什么呢？焦虑的源泉就是，你永远会看到在未来有一个产品，在你所不知道的某一个领域，可能你自己不熟悉的，你根本都没有想到的领域，可以取得一个巨大的成绩。而这件事情，其实也是这个内容行业最本质的规律。我们做完《原神》，我靠，这马上，之前是35岁以前做完《原神》，再做下一款产品，35岁以后做到40岁，以后你还能敢讲，你真的就，包括他们，我自己没有这个信心说，我做到40岁以后，我还敢讲，我真的很了解用户，我还知道之后的用户喜欢什么，能做出什么样子的事情来。
What is the source of anxiety? The source of anxiety is that you will always see a product in the future, in a field that you don't know, possibly in a field that you are not familiar with, a field you haven't even thought of, where you can achieve great success. And this, in fact, is the fundamental law of the content industry. We completed *Genshin Impact*— Damn it— Right away, [I] completed *Genshin Impact* before the age of thirty-five and then [went on to] make the next product, which [I will] continue making from age thirty-five until age forty. From then on, can you dare to say that you truly understand, including them? I don't have the confidence to say it myself that after I reach age forty, I dare to say that I really understand the users well, and that I also know what future users will like and what kind of things can be accomplished.

我觉得这个其实就是所有内容创作者的，可能大家都共同的焦虑，而这个东西是由这个行业的本质的规律决定的。这件事情不仅放在游戏上是这样，就是刚才信文也会跟Dash讨论说，什么样的东西是内容吗，对吧，我觉得内容产业本身其实核心的一个点就是满足用户对于娱乐的需求。这个娱乐很大程度上来自于留给我一个新鲜有趣的东西，不管是一个影视产品还是一个游戏的产品。
I think this is actually a common anxiety among all content creators, and it is determined by the fundamental law of this industry. This matter is not only applicable to games, as Xinwen just discussed with Dash, what kind of things are considered content, right? I think the core of the content industry itself is to satisfy the users' entertainment needs. This entertainment largely comes from providing me with something fresh and interesting, whether it's a film and television product or a game product.

其实都是这个样子的。那无数的公司其实有自己很多的套路，然后不管是Supercell也好还是任天堂也好，或者说我们讲皮克斯也好。其实大家都是相通的，对吧？Supercell和皮克斯内部都会砍掉很多。很多很多的产品拿来的东西，让大家看到是非常非常少的，以此来保证他的产品他出的产品。其实是有很好的一个成功率的，那么同样也有很多的公司其实非常庞大，是不是？然后，他可以去发现全球潜在的新的趋势然后去把它发扬光大。那么其实，就是本质上大家最终都是满足的是用户多样性的一个需求。所以说我觉得就是这个。这个真正重要的其实是，一个内容创作者，他是不是真的知道有哪些潜在的目标用户，这些目标用户可能会有什么样的。这个需求这东西我认为决定一个内容产品的核心。
It's actually the same for all of them. Countless companies have their own tricks, whether it's Supercell, Nintendo, or even Pixar. Everyone is connected, right? Both Supercell and Pixar internally discard many, many things, so what you actually see is very limited. This ensures that the products they release have a high success rate. Similarly, there are many companies that are very large, right? They can discover global potential trends and amplify them. Ultimately, everyone is satisfying the diverse needs of users. So, I think that's the essence. What truly matters is whether a content creator knows the potential target users and understands their needs. I believe this is what determines the core of a content product.

其实虽然我们说来还有很注重技术，但是，如果只是说回产品本身，决定一个内容产品核心的。一定是他的内容本身。他有没有一个真正的，用户喜欢的，然后。甚至是超出用户预期的，用户自己都不知道自己想要一个 iPhone超出用户预期的一个核心内容。这件事情但是恰恰又是非常非常难的。而技术啊美术什么这些可见的东西，其实我觉得都是都是比较容易，在后天可以修炼所取得的。是这个样子的，然后真正核心的内容，其实才是才是这个内容可能是一个核心玩法，可能是一个非常好的一个故事，然后这些东西我认为才是决定一个一个内容产品成败的关键。也是就是说，就是说他注定了内容产品，内容市场是 “winner takes all”。
Although we do emphasize technology, when it comes to the product itself, what truly determines the core of a content product is its content. Does it have something that users truly like, and even exceeds their expectations? Something that users themselves didn't know they wanted, like the core content of an iPhone that surpasses user expectations. However, achieving this is incredibly challenging. On the other hand, things like technology and art, the visible aspects, are relatively easier to develop and improve with time and practice. That's how it is. The real core content, whether it's a core gameplay mechanic or a compelling story, I believe these are the crucial factors that determine the success or failure of a content product. It also means that the content market is "winner takes all," where only a few products dominate.

但这个 winner一定不是一个人。也不是两个人，他其实会有很多的人因为用户的需求就是分散的，那甚至我认为其实随着这个，我们后面不管是AI 技术还procedure creation之类的这些技术的发展，那么说生产力肯定是提升的。生产力提升之后一定，就是就像大家现在其实。比如说，为什么我们能做出这样的东西？我们是站在Unity是站在Unreal Engine的这个肩膀上，所以说，我们能够做出用更少的人，对不对？做出比十年前更好看起来更好的graphic quality这件事情其实大家都是站在巨人的肩膀上，那么往未来去发展我认为。
However, this winner is not just one person. It's not even two people. In fact, it involves many people because user demands are diverse. I even believe that with the development of technologies like AI (artificial intelligence) and procedure creation, productivity will undoubtedly increase. With increased productivity, we can achieve more with fewer people, right? We can create graphics of better quality than ten years ago because we stand on the shoulders of giants like Unity and Unreal Engine.

当然，我自己的一个设想就是说随着技术的进步，生产效率的提升其实应该是对于创作者其实是更友好的，因为它可以让创作者去发挥出。自己真正真正能够他摸清楚的用户所喜欢的那个东西，这样都会百花齐放。所以我认为内容行业永远不会使用固定的一套。很快就会出现下一个东西。你肯定比《原神》DAU更高更赚钱，在社交网络上也更吸睛。那这个东西只是我们现在还不知道是什么。
Looking towards the future, I think that, of course, my own speculation is that with technological progress and improved productivity, it should be more favorable for creators. It allows creators to fully unleash what they truly understand about what users like, leading to a flourishing variety of content. That's why I believe the content industry will never stick to a fixed set of rules. Soon, there will be the emergence of the next big thing, something that will undoubtedly surpass *Genshin Impact* in terms of DAU and profitability and capture attention on social networks. We just don't know what it is yet.

黄一孟：好，我跟大家介绍一下，有很多新来的同事可能不知道前面发言的是哪位啊。为什么他一发言所有的人都全部静音了？对，这是我们今天这些嘉宾里面唯一一个可以真正教大伟哥做人的：他是这个我们莉莉丝的这个CEO蔡浩宇同学！
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Alright, let me introduce to everyone. Some new colleagues may not know who was speaking earlier. Why did everyone mute their microphones as soon as he started speaking? Well, he is the only person among our esteemed guests today who can truly teach Brother Wei some life lessons: our classmate Cai Haoyu, the CEO of Lilith Games!

哈哈哈哈哈哈
Various: (laughter)

不是，不是，不是！是这是米哈游的老蔡。
Unknown: No, no, no! This is Boss Cai from miHoYo.

蔡浩宇：震惊了…
Cai Haoyu: Shocked...

黄一孟：口误，口误！不好意思，哈哈哈
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: A slip of the tongue, a slip of the tongue! Excuse me, hahaha...

## Cai Haoyu (1:59:59-2:04:09)

黄一孟：嗯，好好。那我稍微再补充一下，对未来的定位那方面我稍微再补充一下，就说我们。我还希望整个的我们这个聊天的氛围，大家能够更私人一些。所以希望现在是一个比较好的一个状态，大家能够随意的来聊啊。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Well, alright. Let me add a little more—I'll elaborate a little more to the discussion about our future positioning. I hope that the atmosphere of our conversation can be more personal. So, hopefully this is a better state right now. Everyone, feel free to speak your opinions.

能不能先请那个蔡蔡浩宇老板讲一下，他接下来一些那个产品的，在《原神》之后打算做什么？
Unknown: Can we please have Boss Cai Haoyu talk about what he plans to do with the products after *Genshin Impact*?

黄一孟：给对面老板说话的机会了吗？
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Are we giving the boss (Liu Wei) on the other side a chance to speak?

不不，老板只能最后发言，因为老板说完了，那个蔡浩宇就没有发言机会了。
Unknown: No, the boss can only speak last, because once the boss speaks, Cai Haoyu won't have a chance to speak anymore.

黄一孟：哈哈哈。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Hahaha.

嗯，或者那个请大伟哥讲一下呗。
Unknown: Uh, then let's ask Brother Wei to share his thoughts.

蔡浩宇：啊因为其实现在时间也不太早了。其实我就简单讲一下，然后王老板回头，我们可以私下再继续再聊。就是王老板问说，我们未来想做什么东西吗？
Cai Haoyu: Oh, it's actually a little bit late now. Let me briefly explain. Then, Boss Wang, we can continue this conversation privately later. Boss Wang asked, "What do we (miHoYo) want to create in the future?"

嗯其实我简单讲一下，就是我们公司想做的东西，其实嗯，就这个不是吹牛，但是确实是从我们创业的那个时候开始到现在，其实一直都没有变过。就我们口号不是叫这个“技术宅拯救世界”嘛，所以说我们一直以来的这个目标，其实或者说我们的这个没选这个，在任何场合，其实我都是这么说的。就是我们的目标其实就是希望去能够创造出一个让我们觉得呃更有趣的，然后值得沉浸的这样的一个世界。
Well, let me briefly explain. What our company wants to do, well, this is not boasting, but it's true, from the time we started our business until now, it has never changed. Our slogan is not for nothing, it's "Tech Otakus Save the World," right? So, our goal, or I should say, I've always said this on any occasion, is to create a world that we find more interesting and worth immersing [ourselves] in.

嗯你想他是什么？呃，《The Matrix 黑客帝国》或者是《头号玩家》或者是《Sword Art Online 刀剑神域》啊。那我们自己叫“崩坏神域”，就是这样子的一个东西，其实一直是我们的一个目标。所以说讲这个事情，就是那那王老板问我们的战略，那你这个讲了个很空的东西，其实不是这个样子。
Well, what do you think it might be? Something like *The Matrix*, *Ready Player One*, or *Sword Art Online*? Well, we call ours *Honkai Online*. It's always been our goal. So, when discussing this matter, you might think it's just empty words, but that's not how it is.

那我经常跟别人讲说，有有的有的有的那个一种解读是说啊，我们做《原神》是因为我们看好这个，嗯看完这些游戏，觉得看完这些游戏，会是在未来很有前景的一个赛道。所以说我们去做了，那当然我不否认，我们既然去选了这个，这个这个这个产品方向，当然是我们认为其实是有潜在的用户会喜欢的，但是我们也不知道用户具体会是多少，就像我们当时开始做二次元游戏时，我们也不知道。
I often tell others that people have this interpretation that we make *Genshin Impact* because we are optimistic in this area of industry (open-world games). After playing those type of games, we felt that this area of the industry had a promising future. That's why we decided to do it. Of course, I won't deny that by choosing this product, this area, we believe there are potential users who will like it. However, we don't know exactly how many users there will be in figure. It's like when we started making two-dimensional games; we didn't know for sure.

我我我们很相信，二次元游戏一定能养活我们，是因为我们看到我们身边的很多的同学，包括我们自己都是就是对吧，就是很喜欢这个这个ACG游戏的同学，但是我们并不知道这个市场多大，是不是像今天这么大，这绝对是我们没有想过的事情。这这跟刚才子雄讲的那个道理其实是是是一样的。我那但是我们其实那么我们做开封世界游戏本质上还有一个很重要的原因，其实是因为我们认为，在眼下我们看起来，一个一个足够呃怎么讲有内容的，然后又有细节的又足够沉浸的可以互动的开放世界游戏，是目前为止在我们的技术能力下，我们可以去追赶的，最接近我们想实现的那个虚拟世界的那个理想状态的一个产品形态。
We strongly believed that two-dimensional games could sustain us because we saw many of our peers, including ourselves of course, loving these ACG games. But we didn't know the size of the market, if it would be as big as it is today. It's something we never thought of. And this is similar to what Zixiong talked about earlier. However, you see, the reason we made an open-world game is because, in our current state, it's sufficiently, you know, how should I put it, rich in content, detailed, immersive, and interactive. It's a product form that, with our technological capabilities, we can chase after — the one that comes closest to realizing our ideal virtual world.

所以说呃做一个开放世界游戏做《原神》，并不是我们只是觉得这个这个产品方向好，或者说这可能是次要的，更主要的是我们觉得这是我们这个去实现，去把虚拟世界创造出来这件事情中的一个必经之路。那么那你如果那如果这样理解，你其实也很容易理解米哈游之后的战略是什么。对米哈游之后的战略，肯定是我们希望能够向着继续提升我们的生产力，比如说今天我们让鹿鸣说话OK，然后那个，我们要向着继续能提升我们的生产力，然后去构建内容，提升内容生产力这个方向去走，希望有朝一日，随着我们每隔几年一代产品的迭代，然后可以呃至少我还在在我还能够在做制作人的时候，努力去接近然后我们理想中的这个最接近我们想要的这个呃最终的虚拟世界的形态的东西。
So, making an open-world game like *Genshin Impact* isn't just because we think this product direction is good or maybe secondary. The main reason is that we think it's a necessary path for us to achieve and create a virtual world. So, if you understand it this way, it's easy to see what our strategy is for after miHoYo. Our strategy is to continuously enhance our productivity. For example, today, we let Lumi (*Desktop N0va*) talk (using AI technology) — that's part of our effort to improve productivity and focus on content creation. We hope that someday, with each generation of products iterating every few years, and while I am still capable of being a producer, [we] can strive to get closer to realizing our ideal, the closest form of that ultimate virtual world we want.

这个就是我们的这个战略，而且我可以肯定只要我还在做CEO，这个战略可能不会变。所以，米哈游的这个目标也是脑后插管。我们自己会讲说脑后插管这件事情呢，呃因为我们也没做过硬件吗，是吧，然后这可能不是我们所擅长的事情，但是我们也愿意支持这个这个这个有这样能力的以研究机构去做这种事情啊。
This is our strategy, and I can make a promise that as long as I'm still the CEO, this strategy probably won't change. So, miHoYo's goal is also to have a "brain plug" (intubation). We talk about this "brain plug" thing ourselves. You know, because we haven't done hardware, right? It's not something we excel at, but we're willing to support research institutions that have the capability to do such things.

当然，我觉得也不一定是NerveGear。可能对不对，呃。如此庞大的一个事情，就像 Tim Sweeney 啊，然后讲的就是，他肯定也不是任何一家公司，然后以一己之力可以实现的，那么这肯定最终是一个庞大的，一个全球的，一个产业链。那我们所希望的就是，发挥我们擅长之处，就是我们做内容啊。我们希望如果未来有这样一个机会，能够给我们提供不管是脑后插管，还是任何的那个 BCI 的这种，这种，这种，就是不是 computer interface 的这种形式的话，那我们其实希望的是我们能够在这个，这个硬件，这个 device 上面能够让我们去做足够广泛的，然后有细节的，足够多的内容。我们还是把我们定位是在一个，就是能够有能力去构建这样一个内容的世界，就是脑后插管可能得留在这个产业链上下游的合作伙伴去做。
Of course, I don't think it necessarily has to be NerveGear. Maybe, right? Um, such a massive undertaking, like what Tim Sweeney (creator of Unreal Engine) mentioned, it definitely cannot be achieved by any single company or individual. It will ultimately be a vast, global, and industrial chain. What we hope for is to leverage our strengths, which is content creation. If there's a future opportunity to provide us with either brain-computer interfaces (BCI) or any other form that is not a computer interface, our wish is to have the capability to create extensive, detailed, and abundant content on that hardware or device. We still position ourselves as having the ability to construct such a content-driven world. The brain-computer interface may be left to partners in the upstream or downstream of this industry chain to handle.

## Ma Xiaoyi, Liu Wei (2:04:09 - 2:09:10)

This section's Chinese transcript contains errors and has yet to be refined.Therefore, the translations are innaccurate to a degree.
黄一孟：是是是，我们只是开玩笑。平时跟别人开玩笑，其实会发现关于聊，很畅想未来科幻门。脑后插管会发现也分降临派和抗拒派，但是往往做游戏的普遍是降临派。对啊，要不那个，那个，定位马老板来那个？对对对，我们请定位来说一下。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng, Yes, yes, we were just joking. When we usually joke with others, we can find ourselves freely imagining about the future of sci-fi. About the brain-computer interface, there are those who embrace it and those who resist it, but often gamers tend to embrace it. Oh, right, how about inviting Boss Ma to share his thoughts?

马晓轶：对，其实我从10点这个房间开我就进来。起码还是学了挺多东西啊，我觉得这个。我，我说说句实话，就是这个不代表我们公司说，我代表个人说就是，我，我自己觉得就是还是看到上海的这个，你们的这个能量，我还是挺害怕的。
Ma Xiaoyi: Yes, actually, I've been in this room since ten o'clock. I've learned quite a lot, I feel. I'll be honest, this doesn't represent our company, just my personal opinion—I must admit, I am quite intimidated by the energy here in Shanghai.

黄一孟：不好意思，口出狂言。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: No need to apologize, I spoke recklessly.

马晓轶：我觉得这个绝对是，我有什么感觉啊就是呃。我想起以前有一个时候，什么时候呢就是在2010年的时候。那个时候呢我们在做一个决定，说就是那个时候就是刚刚刚刚起来，然后啊09年的时候从产品刚刚做出来，10年我们要做个决定，说1亿美元要不要把荣耀特控股了。但是当年来说，对我们来说是个很艰难的决定啊，我们不敢发这个决定。
Ma Xiaoyi: I feel this is absolutely... uh... I remember back in 2010, there was a time when we had to make a decision. At that time, we had just started and in 2009, our product had just been developed. In 2010, we had to decide whether to acquire Transcription missing for $100 million. But it was a difficult decision for us that year, and we were hesitant to make it.

然后后来我们去他们公司看了之后，我回来我我很支持，我说一定要要把这个公司拿下来，说为什么原因啊，因为那个公司有很多的想法，而且这个想法呢明显比当时我接触到的那些老牌的游戏公司像BA啊take two啊那些公司要先进，因为这些理念先进，所以他们从这些老牌公司里挖了一大批人，以至于啊后来很长一段时间，就是我每次见耶见这个X特别训的老板，他们第一句话就是说哎呀你什么时候，然后就可以不挖我们的人了就是呃。我我听你们讲我有有点那种感觉，哎呀我想这个吃的不太好哈哈。
Later, after we visited their company, I came back and fully supported the acquisition. I insisted on taking over the company because they had many innovative ideas, and these ideas were clearly more advanced than those of the established gaming companies like BA and Take-Two [Interactive] that I had encountered before. They were so advanced that they managed to recruit many talents from those established companies. As a result, for a long time, every time I met the boss of that X Special Training, their first sentence would be, "Hey, when can you stop poaching our people?" I got that feeling when I heard you talk about it - "Oh, they won't be able to poach our people anymore, haha."

然后嗯我觉得就听你们这个话题，我讲讲我们在焦虑什么事情呢。就是我我自己觉得就是因为你如果看腾讯游戏起来，其实我们真的就是抓了几波机会，第一波就是呃大家都玩这个RPG传奇类的啊，我们开开始做测枪球，那这个抓到一个机会，这还不是全球型的，接下来两个全球性机会，一个模板一个这个吃鸡，那所以在内部我们问最多的其实就是按照下一个这样大的机会在哪里，就刚刚大家聊很多这个竞技的游戏。
Anyway, I think listening to your discussion, I can talk about what makes us anxious. Personally, I feel that Tencent Games has seized several opportunities. The first wave was when everyone was playing RPG and Legend games, and we started doing FPS games, seizing that opportunity. Then came two global opportunities, one with a template and another with Battle Royale. So internally, the most asked question is where to find the next big opportunity, and lately, we've been talking a lot about competitive games.

但就是最令我担心的呢，是说我看到几个趋势啊，就第一就像前面说的真的一个玩法出来呢，他真的是很难的他的概率是极低极低，我们我我我自己看到的概率啊基本上就是几千分之一就可能两三千个mode可能有一个或者是这样吧两三千个帽子能有100个帽子走上了正确的道路，然后100个帽子能够坚持做下去能有10个，10个里边跑出1到2个基本上就这种这种概率。
But what worries me the most is that I see a few trends. Firstly, as I mentioned earlier, when a new gameplay emerges, it's extremely difficult, with very low probability. From what I've observed, the chances are basically one in a few thousand modes that maybe two or three thousand ideas can lead to one correct path, and then out of 100 correct paths, only around 10 can persist, and within those 10, maybe one or two will succeed. It's this kind of probability.

所以变成说你要在早期说哎，我从0到1就抓住这个新玩法机会非常非常非常难就是哪怕腾讯做了这么多投资做这么多布局我们自己觉得说拿到的概率也还是很低的。倒过来呢，以前这前面我忘了谁总结了说哎腾讯因为比如说“吃鸡”的时候，是因为我们的呃生产力比较高，我们的工业化程度高所以我们抓到这个机会，但这个工业化程度高说实话当时是和国内，但其实就是如果说去年啊我看所有令我印象深刻的游戏啊这里面有两个和这个有关，一个就是《原神》了，我觉得确实是降为打击，那其实是用做PC康寿的理念去做手游，这是个降维打击，但另一个行业我担心的呢其实是那个CODO中的成功其他基本上也是抄这些玩法抄的速度很快而且他们是用真正的工业化能力以最高的这个行业全球行业的这个是水准做出来的。
So, to catch the new gameplay opportunity from 0 to 1 in the early stage is very, very, very challenging. Even though Tencent has made numerous investments and layouts, we still consider the probability of success to be quite low. On the other hand, in the past, I forgot who summarized it, Tencent seized the opportunity with games like *PUBG: Battlegrounds* because our productivity was relatively high, and our level of industrialization was advanced. But to be honest, at that time, this high level of industrialization was only relative to the domestic market. However, last year, looking at all the impressive games I encountered, two of them are relevant here: *Genshin Impact,* which indeed launched a significant strike by applying a PC-style open-world concept to mobile games, and the other one is *Call of Duty Online*. I'm concerned because others quickly copied these gameplay ideas and produced them with real industrial capabilities, at the highest global industry standards.

所以就我很担心说下一次再出现这种呃像“吃鸡”这样世界级的玩法的机会，那我们面临的是传统游戏行业的这个降维打击，所以其实呃如果说腾讯这边呢我们做最多词就是怎么样想一个办法把我们的工业化能力提升到和全球大赏一样的这个水准，以便于在下一次机会来临的时候我们拥拥有和他们一样的这个竞争实力能够在一个水准上都要被这样打击掉。
So, I'm very worried that if there's another world-class gameplay opportunity like *PUBG: Battlegrounds*, we'll face a strike on the traditional gaming industry. Therefore, Tencent's most significant challenge is figuring out how to elevate our industrial capabilities to the level of global giants, so that when the next opportunity comes, we will have the competitive strength on par with them and not be struck down at that level.

黄一孟：呃，OK，哈哈哈，是我，是这位马老板。真的给我们教做人了，呃。各位老板，还有什么要补充吗？其实我们今天也聊得蛮晚了，大家看看，有什么要补充吗？没有的话，我们也许就今天就这样了，是不是可以让大伟哥收一个尾啊。
Huang "Dash" Yimeng: Um, OK, hahaha. Boss Ma really taught us a lot about being a good person, um. Do any of the bosses have anything to add? Actually, it's getting quite late in our conversation today, so everyone, is there anything else to add? If not, then maybe we'll end it here for today. Can we let Brother Wei give us a closing remark?

好好好，大伟哥给我们总结发言来看看这个，最后教我们一次。
Unknown: Okay, okay, okay. Brother Wei, give us a summary and final remarks, and then teach us one more time.

刘伟：啊，我觉得那个视频，马老板这个总结，我我我安利一个，就是大家可以去看一下那个视频。马老板之前在，包括GameLook游戏葡萄的文章，他其实反复的强调一个东西，叫production value。这个其实就是我们，还有其实也是在这个路线上往前走了。那个是马老板，因为他在欧美见过很多工作室，吗？我们只是这个望梅止渴。那他是亲身经历过吗？所以大家，呃，大家去看一下他那些文章，去看看他讲的这个production value这些东西，我觉得可能会有更更深的体会吧。
Liu Wei: Ah, I think that video, Boss Ma's summary, I recommend it. Everyone can go and watch that video. Boss Ma previously emphasized something repeatedly in GameLook and Youxi Putao articles, called "production value." This is actually what we have been pursuing on this path. Boss Ma has seen many Western studios, right? We are just trying to quench our thirst for knowledge. Has he personally experienced it? So, everyone, um, everyone should go and read his articles, take a look at what he talks about regarding production value and such. I think it might lead to a deeper understanding (after reading them).

呃，那好，要不今天就谢谢大家。今天这个入门，也算是很成功的。最后有大概2000多人加进来，谢谢大家。然后希望回头，咱们有机会能够再再再再聊吧。
Um, well, how about we thank everyone for today. Today's lecture was quite successful. In the end, there were around 2000 more people joining (the chatroom). Thank you, everyone. And I hope we can chat again if we have the chance.

谢谢大家！
Thank you, everyone!

拜拜晚安好！
Bye! Have a good night.

拜拜拜拜谢谢拜拜拜拜拜拜拜拜…
Bye! Thank you!