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On Aug 03, 2015 8:02 AM Caddy wrote:

Most of the papers cited here are (relatively) old. You have to wonder why it hasn't been picked up and followed-through. Is it simply that the pharmas can't see a patent in it?
This German company seems to be in clinical trials with it http://medical-enzymes.de/index.php?page=1779509642&f=1&
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:43 AM

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On Aug 03, 2015 8:02 AM Caddy wrote:

Most of the papers cited here are (relatively) old. You have to wonder why it hasn't been picked up and followed-through. Is it simply that the pharmas can't see a patent in it?
I agree with Caddy. It is not just DON, why not 3 BP as well?

We do not get clear information on the protocol. 3 BP is very unstable, how is it mixed with NaBIC or other synergists, what are the synergists? How is it administered, does it need to be protected from light, administered in silver foils covering the IV drip? Which types of cancers has shown good results to 3 BP, arizona claims only 2. German/Dutch clinics can add to that number or someone on ground there provide us with this information?

The unsuccessfull rate might have more to do with lack of this information. I really hope someone like Don gets access to this information.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:32 AM
Quote | ReplyUpdate on my treatment with the Newcastle virus: PSA suddenly rose to 6.16, and then after 1 week to 9.04. So in my case the virus not only does not help, but could worsen the situation.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:39 AM

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On Aug 03, 2015 11:32 AM FelixShmidel wrote:

Update on my treatment with the Newcastle virus: PSA suddenly rose to 6.16, and then after 1 week to 9.04. So in my case the virus not only does not help, but could worsen the situation.

Darn! Felix how annoying. Dr. Myers says PSA rises when cancer cells die, and then falls back. When did you start the treatment?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:14 AM

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On Aug 03, 2015 11:32 AM FelixShmidel wrote:

Update on my treatment with the Newcastle virus: PSA suddenly rose to 6.16, and then after 1 week to 9.04. So in my case the virus not only does not help, but could worsen the situation.

I am sorry to hear that...
Before NDV, PSA was stable for long time; after NDV first declined and then started to increase?
Thanks a lot for the update Felix!

Note: it is known on onco field that when treatments are effective, markers may first grow showing a peak after which they will start declining. Other blood pharameters need to be carefully followed for a clear conclusion on what is happening ...

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:25 AM
Quote | ReplyI have started the treatment on the 9-th of June, 2015.

In the beginning of June, PSA was 4.9, in the beginning of July - 3.5 and now - 9.04.

I am going to measure it in 2 weeks to know if the rise of PSA is temporary.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by FelixShmidel on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:25 AM
Quote | ReplyI have started the treatment on the 9-th of June, 2015.

In the beginning of June, PSA was 4.9, in the beginning of July - 3.5 and now - 9.04.

I am going to measure it in 2 weeks to know if the rise of PSA is temporary.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:20 PM
Quote | ReplyPSA doubling in less than a month, to me, seems incredibly atypical. Prostate cancers are generally pretty indolent (unless yours is a high grade variant) and to double in tumor markets within about a month just doesn't seem like the typical course for a prostate cancer. It is possible that other factors contributed to the PSA levels. It's also possible that it is cancer growth related.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitter Moonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 01:24 PM
Quote | ReplyI can't find anything to suggest that IP-6 is an MCT1 inhibitor and would like to use it for cachexia. Has anyone read to the contrary?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 05:47 PM
Quote | ReplyWHAT is going on in here? Who are you people? LOL Damn!

I was looking for responses to the 3bp treatment and now my head is just throbbing--I was wondering if any of you in here have heard of a Dr. Andrew Dickens? He's from Arizonia and treats cancer with 3bp at Daysprings cancer center.

Thanks for letting me in for just a quick question!

Ann

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 05:53 PM

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On Aug 03, 2015 9:47 PM MSL1968 wrote:

WHAT is going on in here? Who are you people? LOL Damn!

I was looking for responses to the 3bp treatment and now my head is just throbbing--I was wondering if any of you in here have heard of a Dr. Andrew Dickens? He's from Arizonia and treats cancer with 3bp at Daysprings cancer center.

Thanks for letting me in for just a quick question!

Ann

Yes, we have heard of Dr. Dickens, Ann. In fact he has posted here a few times...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 05:56 PM
Quote | ReplyThanks for your response Moon, but how do you feel about his treatment? Do you think it could work for pancreatic cancer stage IV with met to liver? I'm trying to make a decide if my sick husband should try it or not.

Thanks for your honest opinion!

Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:00 PM
Quote | ReplyUm, Who am I? Doesn't that question require a lifetime of psychoanalysis to answer? Not sure what your're getting at with those first two questions, though welcome aboard new poster. (I think we might have met before on a dark night.)

The doctor posted on our thread, yet not recently. The thread has talked a lot about Dayspring. They are the global trend setter for 3-BP treatment.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:09 PM
Quote | ReplyI'm sorry I guess I should have suggested that you and your mates on here sound more like scientists than every day people.

I don't remember you, but if we did speak, Hi!

Trend setter for 3 Bp, wow! He told me that he's treated 8 pancreatic cancer pts but only one has been successful. That particular individual who did well was also the only one treated with 3Bp. I'm wondering if we should believe him. I don't see any study or evidence to support what he's saying on his website. So, I'm on here asking if any of you "Scientists" believe in what he's doing. However, after reading page after page of your conversation, I'm rather confused.

Thanks,

Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:10 PM
Quote | ReplyYou probably already know of this one.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/

The thread has a certain DIY research component to it. The research done by the posters can then feedforward for everyone's benefit.

The problem with 3-BP is that none of the clinical research legwork has been done yet. Might never be. Have to DIY.

Some of the posters to the thread have not had a response with 3-BP. 3-BP biology looks very simple. The one big problem is 3-BP needs a doorway into the cell. The main doorway is MCT-1.

Doing lab work on a tumor to determine MCT-1 expression would seem to be a good idea. This might give you a POR (predictor of response).

Here is an example of the research that might apply.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25957999
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:18 PM

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On Aug 03, 2015 10:09 PM MSL1968 wrote:

I'm sorry I guess I should have suggested that you and your mates on here sound more like scientists than every day people.

I don't remember you, but if we did speak, Hi!

Trend setter for 3 Bp, wow! He told me that he's treated 8 pancreatic cancer pts but only one has been successful. That particular individual who did well was also the only one treated with 3Bp. I'm wondering if we should believe him. I don't see any study or evidence to support what he's saying on his website. So, I'm on here asking if any of you "Scientists" believe in what he's doing. However, after reading page after page of your conversation, I'm rather confused.

Thanks,

Ann
Ann, I belive he is doing very good things and he has a very clever protocol. It took me a while to understand why he is using what he is using but now I see the science behind. Btw, I have no connection with them besides a few e-mail exchange. The only drawback is the price but I can understand why looking at the extensive protocol they use. For us it was too expensive, but if I would have the money I would consider this one as one of the main options. The other I would conisder is Salinomycin (I think Dr. Rosenberg is doing that).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:33 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you so much Danielus! I need a straight forward response and I got it! THanks so much! Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:36 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you Jcancom for your explaination. You made a very complicated subject understandable. I thinks its going to take an automic boooom to get those cancer cells to open up to chemo, radiation, and 3bp. Thanks again! Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:37 PM
Quote | ReplyThe question was asked a page back "Why hasn't 3-BP been picked up by pharma?". It has taken me a while to accept the answer: MONEY! Especially the lack of it with 3-BP.

A published DCA researcher was on our thread for a few days about a month ago. He had the same complaints that we have. His published patient reports with DCA in NHL generated ZERO interest. The DCA protocol that was described in his article resulted in long term ongoing remission for these patients. With standard of care treatment these patients would have had almost no chance for long term survival. It is almost impossible to imagine that medical professionals who were long term colleagues of the author would simply dismiss his published research. They did!

It has taken me a long time to fully internalize this idea. However, it appears that money really can be the driving moral compass for some people.

Forming a socio-political activist movement based on this insight might not be a bad idea.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:43 PM
Quote | ReplyWhat is 3BP as in where does it come from? Why is it so expensive? And, why wouldn't pharma be working with GOV to get funding for it?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:51 PM
Quote | ReplyAll 3-BP needs is a doorway into the cell. 3-BP goes thermonuclear inside cells: it just needs a way to pass through the lipid bi-layer. It is simply not plausible that a cancer cell that swallowed 3-BP would have a snowball's chance. The problem is that these atomic weapons are unable to pass through the cell's 5 nanometer thick lipid bilayer without MCT-1!!!

The results from the Georgia lab with Mito-3-BP clearly show that once 3-BP passes into the cell the cancer cell is in deep trouble. 3-BP formulated as Mito-3-BP assures entry into the cell by using a positively charge tug boat to pull it across the cell membrane into the negatively charged inside of the cell. The mitochondria is even more negatively charged so Mito-3-BP is then tugged into it as well.

Cancer cell could not resist this treatment. (The only thing I am not sure about is how selective Mito-3-BP would be. Every cell is negative on the inside.)  Mito-3-BP is an order or two magnitude better than 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:03 PM
Quote | ReplySigma sells 10 grams of 3-BP for $100. 10 grams of 3-BP could cure a small village of cancer patients.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=3-bromopyruv

3-BP is a widely used fungicide. The Chinese sell it online by the ton! This has created a certain problem for product development. Namely, how can you bring a cancer drug to market and sell it for let's say $1 million when cost conscious patients can go online and buy it for $100?

Hopkins did their part to move it forward, though it seems government is all aboard with the fix. Tripping over the Truth revealed the startling truth about the back story of 3-BP. Would make even our Soviet comrades blush. A psychiatric assessment for the researcher who cured cancer? It'll feel great when they win a Nobel Prize!

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:04 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is very interesting. I have taken 2 semesters of A and P but I don't remember MCT-1. Is it a carrier protein?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:15 PM
Quote | ReplyOkay so is that in pill form or aerosolized? How much should I give him?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:17 PM
Quote | Replyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocarboxylate\_transporter\_1

Many on the thread probably regret waiting for 3-BP. Patients often think they can wait out cancer: You can't! This only makes things more dangerous.

The best strategy might be to have a good baseline set of labs done. Have a single IV dose of 1-2 mg / kg of 3-BP (preferably through a medical clinic) and then do another set of labs on the day of 3-BP treatment. Even a single IV dose should give you a good idea whether 3-BP is getting in through MCT-1.

You could then dose up and combine from there, if 3-BP were working. However, on the initial 3-BP dosing it would be best to let everything else clear for a day or two. Waiting for months agonizing over getting 3-BP  treatment would not be helpful. Most have been surprised how minimal 3-BP side effects have been.

3-BP does not work for everyone. You want to know as soon as you can whether it will work for you. If it will not work, then you want to move onto other options.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:18 PM
Quote | ReplyJ very sorry aboiut this. The wiki thing that you  linked to...I need it :) I will copy the link this time. I cannot find the posting by the Indian doctor on how to make MCT-1 more receptive. I have been putting KetoCaNa and apple cider vinegar in the search function to bring the post up but cannot find it. Thx in advance.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:21 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you very much for all of your information! I very much appreciate your advice and I will consider what you've shown me carefully.

Thanks Again!

Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:33 PM
Quote | ReplyHey everyone, we just passed another millennial milestone on the thread! Is not a party in order? WOO HOO!!!

Our thread towers over every other on this forum!

After all this time we are still friendly and hopeful. Almost every other alternative thread with post counts anywhere near ours end up degenerating into name calling and accusations of fraud. We have been attracting a constant influx of new posters lately because we are moving forward with a positive vibe.

I met the new poster on the pancreatic threads and was called a slime ball by posters who did not take kindly to me questioning the wisdom of their solution to cancer: euthanasia!

Thank you all on the thread. It has been a great pleasure and honor for me to be a poster on this thread.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:37 PM
Quote | ReplyThe search function on the wiki will not work for apple cider because I have not updated the wiki's thread for a while.

The search function is a very useful feature of the wiki and I have used it often myself.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:43 PM
Quote | ReplyThe 3-BP patents make claims for virtually every possible form of administration. Oral, neublized, IV, dermal... are the ways that people on this thread have used it. Nebulized seems to have been fairly powerful. This could really help for lung tumor problems.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that shellacking a gel cap full of 3-BP with grade shellac would get the gelcap into the GI tract in tact. That idea is a little out there.

The patent talks of 1-2 mg/kg IV 3-BP as safe.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:47 PM
Quote | ReplyAll I can say, to quote my daughter, is OMG. Euthanasia trumps trying 3BP? That is truly frightening. Or did I read this wrongly?

Tomorrow is another 3BP infusion. Please pray it will begin to work, or at least wish it will! I am so glad this thread is one where we all respect one another. There is a man on another forum, who everyone thinks is a hero. He has been horrendously rude to me. I have been 35 years as a medical writer and I check my sources, yet he constantly pulled me down because I am not a fan of the chemotherapy he pushes ad nauseum.

I'd like to thank you JCanCom and Daniel especially as you have been so very helpful and kind. Plus I have met K and L on this thread and they are pretty special people.

Wishing us ALL the very best of health and success with 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 07:49 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 03, 2015 11:37 PM Jcancom wrote:

The search function on the wiki will not work for apple cider because I have not updated the wiki's thread for a while.

The search function is a very useful feature of the wiki and I have used it often myself.

Thanks J. I will ask Kim as I am sure she took it all down.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 08:21 PM
Quote | ReplyNo, you got it spot on. I couldn't believe it myself.

Give the new poster some love. She has washed ashore after managing to fend off the whole zombie death cult on the forum.

I met her on a tough night. She was fed up with the relentlessly negative tone of the pancreatic boards. She couldn't take it anymore and asked people on these threads to stop posting about the utter hopelessness of the situation.

This was met with simply a fury of rebuttal from the euthanasia society. They are really big with open your arms for god's embrace. It is simply startling that there comments are never removed from the forum. When I replied with patient reports of successful 3-BP treatment, my posts were deleted. It is very disturbing.

I was then called a laundry list of name sleaze bag, in it for the money ...  I was asked for the 5 year survival rates of 3-BP patients. How can you argue with bad logic? Euthanasia has a 0% 5 year survival rate. These euthanasits on the forum are just creepy weird! You know they are just the type of people that give you the willies without even really knowing them. I mean really, is counseling people to commit euthanasia actualy their free time hobby? It's laughably pathetic. If that is all that I could offer other people on this thread, I would retire!

My best reply could have been that they could open their arms for god's embrace and try 3-BP at 1-2 mg/kg IV for the purposes of euthanasia. This would, without uncertainty, have made them quite happy. However, I expect that when they were cured of terminal pancreatic cancer they would then sue me for wrongful life!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 09:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 12:21 AM Jcancom wrote:

No, you got it spot on. I couldn't believe it myself.

Give the new poster some love. She has washed ashore after managing to fend off the whole zombie death cult on the forum.

I met her on a tough night. She was fed up with the relentlessly negative tone of the pancreatic boards. She couldn't take it anymore and asked people on these threads to stop posting about the utter hopelessness of the situation.

This was met with simply a fury of rebuttal from the euthanasia society. They are really big with open your arms for god's embrace. It is simply startling that there comments are never removed from the forum. When I replied with patient reports of successful 3-BP treatment, my posts were deleted. It is very disturbing.

I was then called a laundry list of name sleaze bag, in it for the money ...  I was asked for the 5 year survival rates of 3-BP patients. How can you argue with bad logic? Euthanasia has a 0% 5 year survival rate. These euthanasits on the forum are just creepy weird! You know they are just the type of people that give you the willies without even really knowing them. I mean really, is counseling people to commit euthanasia actualy their free time hobby? It's laughably pathetic. If that is all that I could offer other people on this thread, I would retire!

My best reply could have been that they could open their arms for god's embrace and try 3-BP at 1-2 mg/kg IV for the purposes of euthanasia. This would, without uncertainty, have made them quite happy. However, I expect that when they were cured of terminal pancreatic cancer they would then sue me for wrongful life!
Yes, now this is scary. So your posts were deleted but the suggestions for euthanasia were not?Hmm.

Welcome MSL (sorry, I can't see your name as I'm replying here). You don't need that rubbish. "Miracles" happen every day, in the most dire of circumstances. We need to believe in them.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 09:21 PM
Quote | ReplyThank-you, I reallly appreciate it. Actually, it has bothered me a lot since I told them to leave. I have felt terrible since because it wasn't nice of me to say what I said. I just couldn't take the negativity when I'm desperately spending every min. trying to find some hope in a new treatment. I do believe in "Miracles" and I don't believe in taking of ones life. I didn't know they were saying those things. I would have reported them.

I'm glad that I've found you because you also have hope!

Blessings,

Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 09:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 1:21 AM MSL1968 wrote:

Thank-you, I reallly appreciate it. Actually, it has bothered me a lot since I told them to leave. I have felt terrible since because it wasn't nice of me to say what I said. I just couldn't take the negativity when I'm desperately spending every min. trying to find some hope in a new treatment. I do believe in "Miracles" and I don't believe in taking of ones life. I didn't know they were saying those things. I would have reported them.

I'm glad that I've found you because you also have hope!

Blessings,

Ann
Blessings to you as well, Ann. Always feel free to PM me. This is a difficult odyssey and I believe in the power of collective consciousness. My husband is on 3BP and so far not responding, but I discovered that both the melatonin and selenium he was taking actually increase glutathione in the cell...not what we want with 3BP and why we take acetaminophen along with it. So, along with the seemingly constant despair are periods of hope and those are so very important. This whole 3BP thing is a learning process! Wishing you the very best...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 09:45 PM
Quote | ReplyWe should not let the new poster's new information go without comment.

I have been trying to guess how many patients Dayspring might have treated to arrive at that one pancreatic success.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/

Dayspring started treatment with 3-BP December 2014/ January 2015 and their website mentions good responses in a Stage IV breast cancer patient and a Stage IV pancreatic patient (started treatment Feb 2015). Their website adds the intensifier "Very Poor Short Term Prognosis" to describe the outlook for their stage IV pancreatic patient. Dayspring charges about $30,000 and even if money were no problem there are a lot of people who would not want to rush the doors of an alternative clinic to be the first in line for treatment. How many people were in the sample size? What about the others?

I wanted to be cautious, so I called it at most 10 patients with pancreatic? ( Not sure how many overall).

That would mean 3-BP gives you roughly 1 chance in 10.

The new poster has told us that it was not 10 patients ... it was 1 patient. What about the others? There were no others!

Dayspring had a near curative response in the first patient they treated!! Wow!

The euthanasia members of the forum especially on the pancreatic boards told people there was no hope. Survival in some of these tough to treat cancers does approach zero per cent. Yet, Dayspring appears to be batting 100. Not bad. It is of course only an n=1 sample, though some of hospitals with similar patients never report successes!

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 09:58 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 1:45 AM Jcancom wrote:

We should not let the new poster's new information go without comment.

I have been trying to guess how many patients Dayspring might have treated to arrive at that one pancreatic success.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/

Dayspring started treatment with 3-BP December 2014/ January 2015 and their website mentions good responses in a Stage IV breast cancer patient and a Stage IV pancreatic patient (started treatment Feb 2015). Their website adds the intensifier "Very Poor Short Term Prognosis" to describe the outlook for their stage IV pancreatic patient. Dayspring charges about $30,000 and even if money were no problem there are a lot of people who would not want to rush the doors of an alternative clinic to be the first in line for treatment. How many people were in the sample size? What about the others?

I wanted to be cautious, so I called it at most 10 patients with pancreatic? ( Not sure how many overall).

That would mean 3-BP gives you roughly 1 chance in 10.

The new poster has told us that it was not 10 patients ... it was 1 patient. What about the others? There were no others!

Dayspring had a near curative response in the first patient they treated!! Wow!

The euthanasia members of the forum especially on the pancreatic boards told people there was no hope. Survival in some of these tough to treat cancers does approach zero per cent. Yet, Dayspring appears to be batting 100. Not bad. It is of course only an n=1 sample, though some of hospitals with similar patients never report successes!

I thought I just read there were 8 or 9 patients with pancreatic cancer for whom it did not work...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:00 PM
Quote | ReplyOnly one of the pancreatic patients received 3-BP treatment!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 03, 2015 11:47 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

All I can say, to quote my daughter, is OMG. Euthanasia trumps trying 3BP? That is truly frightening. Or did I read this wrongly?

Tomorrow is another 3BP infusion. Please pray it will begin to work, or at least wish it will! I am so glad this thread is one where we all respect one another. There is a man on another forum, who everyone thinks is a hero. He has been horrendously rude to me. I have been 35 years as a medical writer and I check my sources, yet he constantly pulled me down because I am not a fan of the chemotherapy he pushes ad nauseum.

I'd like to thank you JCanCom and Daniel especially as you have been so very helpful and kind. Plus I have met K and L on this thread and they are pretty special people.

Wishing us ALL the very best of health and success with 3BP.
The Indian doctor (Jagdon) gave the information about apple cider vinegar, etc. on July 30--hope that helps!

You and your husband are in our prayers and thoughts--wishing you the very best, too, for health and success with 3-BP!

I am sure K will chime in with me about thinking you are very special, too!  You are indeed a "light" to all of us.

As for the rude person you encountered on another forum--so be it--his actions are his own.  Best to associate with only positive, encouraging, hopeful people who have empathy.

Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:59 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 2:29 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 03, 2015 11:47 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

All I can say, to quote my daughter, is OMG. Euthanasia trumps trying 3BP? That is truly frightening. Or did I read this wrongly?

Tomorrow is another 3BP infusion. Please pray it will begin to work, or at least wish it will! I am so glad this thread is one where we all respect one another. There is a man on another forum, who everyone thinks is a hero. He has been horrendously rude to me. I have been 35 years as a medical writer and I check my sources, yet he constantly pulled me down because I am not a fan of the chemotherapy he pushes ad nauseum.

I'd like to thank you JCanCom and Daniel especially as you have been so very helpful and kind. Plus I have met K and L on this thread and they are pretty special people.

Wishing us ALL the very best of health and success with 3BP.
The Indian doctor (Jagdon) gave the information about apple cider vinegar, etc. on July 30--hope that helps!

You and your husband are in our prayers and thoughts--wishing you the very best, too, for health and success with 3-BP!

I am sure K will chime in with me about thinking you are very special, too!  You are indeed a "light" to all of us.

As for the rude person you encountered on another forum--so be it--his actions are his own.  Best to associate with only positive, encouraging, hopeful people who have empathy.
I sent her the info privately. If anyone else is interested, let me know...Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMSL1968

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by MSL1968 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:39 AM
Quote | ReplyThank you Moonlitnight,

I hope he does start to respond from eliminating the melatonin and selenium. What was the selenium for? My husband takes antidepressants, I'm wondering if he should stop them? I hope that you will allow me to befriend you and keep me informed about your journey will the 3Bp. I'm very curious how it all works. We cannot afford Dayspring treatment, since my husband was fired from his job for having cancer and now we have medicaid. I was in nursing school and now I take care of him. I wish you the VERY BEST with 3Bp and I hope it WORKS!

Thanks for all of the information, Moon and keep me posted!

Ann
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Tue Aug 04, 2015 03:19 AM
Quote | ReplyAnn,

If you go back through the 200 pages of this thread, you'll see the involvement of Dr Dickens!

It's worth going through as much of the thread as you can find.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 04:33 AM
Quote | ReplyI think this treatment is not very expensive.in  Germany it is 4000 euros for the first montj and another 4000 for the next months..only thing I want to know us ..why would i need so many treatments because Ivar Verhoeven was only treatet about 10 times ( i think?) And his father told me they should have stopped the treatment much sooner.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 04:38 AM
Quote | ReplyI think this treatment is not very expensive.in  Germany it is 4000 euros for the first montj and another 4000 for the next months..only thing I want to know us ..why would i need so many treatments because Ivar Verhoeven was only treatet about 10 times ( i think?) And his father told me they should have stopped the treatment much sooner.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 06:54 AM
Quote | ReplyDayspring updated their pancreatic cancer patient on July 30: Patient finally did do chemotherapy at home and tumor marker hit a high of 1,574 and chemotherapy was stopped. He is now doing 3bp along with other products to support the 3bp. With this regimen his CA 19-9 is now down to 244. He writes: “If this ends happily (whenever you can tell that might be a philosophical question) I will really address the question how it is possible to ignore a miraculous agent like 3-BP for now 15 years whilst people are dying in en mass. This is really unbelievable.” Makes you wonder why chemotherapy was even attempted if the patient was doing well.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twittersumeetnag

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:17 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 8:38 AM mar60 wrote:

I think this treatment is not very expensive.in "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://expensive.in " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">expensive.in  Germany it is 4000 euros for the first montj and another 4000 for the next months..only thing I want to know us ..why would i need so many treatments because Ivar Verhoeven was only treatet about 10 times ( i think?) And his father told me they should have stopped the treatment much sooner.
They build a protocol tailored for the patient. So 3 BP is one of the main elements, they have other things like MSM, vit c, ozone therapy, etc. Which are supposed to act as synregists. This is what takes the price to 4000.

I wish we could just get 3bp and try it for a day and check LDH levels with couple of synergists. Life would be easy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:51 PM
Quote | ReplyExactly.

Have labs done.

Dose with a single round of IV 1-2 mg/kg 3-BP.

Have labs redone.

If markers have moved, then start combining and dose up.

If markers have not moved, then it is somewhat tricky.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Aug 04, 2015 01:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 4:51 PM Jcancom wrote:

Exactly.

Have labs done.

Dose with a single round of IV 1-2 mg/kg 3-BP.

Have labs redone.

If markers have moved, then start combining and dose up.

If markers have not moved, then it is somewhat tricky.
J, would you say it was tricky for teh melanoma case? Considering that case, would you stake the same approach? Concluding after a single dose is a bit tricky, I think.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 01:12 PM
Quote | ReplyThe Toronto clinic would be perfect to try this out. (Unfortunately, only for Canadians)

You could do the whole package: labs, and single IV 3-BP for about $400.

It would be a great marketing move for other clinics to offer such a service. They could then start offering money guarantees: "Cancer cured or money refunded". That would be amazing. This would make it much easier for patients to write the 3-BP cheque.

So many times with cancer treatment people will spend up to 100s of K without any sense whether the treatment would work for them. With 3-BP if you move the markers on the first treatment, it would seem unlikely that they would not keep moving with more treatment.

Offering a money back guarantee would propel 3-BP into the spotlight. It would be a brilliant marketing tactic. I am not aware of money back guarantees ever being offered in cancer treatment. Cancer has always been so ... unpredicatable. Yet with 3-BP, if you can remove the cancer cells energy supply and you see this response, it seems reasonably certain that the cancer will have a difficult time finding a way around and the response will continue. For the liver patient, the cancer cells even a year after starting treatment had still not figured out a resistance pathway.

I would think that mass media would almost have to pick up on a "Satisfication Guaranteed or Money Refunded" pledge for cancer. I am not sure whether they could guarantee  patients that they would be fully satisfied just satisfied. Nothing else about 3-BP seems to have captivated their interest including curing a terminally terminally ill metastatic liver patient, good responses from Dayspring with a stage IV pancreatic and breast patient, metabolic cure of a metastatic melanoma patient, 2 other responses with primary liver patients at Hopkins ...

It still possible that 3-BP might work for people even if did not work on the first treatment, though this would be much less certain. Perhaps clinics could still offer these patients 3-BP without the money back guarantee.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Aug 04, 2015 01:14 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 5:00 PM Danielus wrote:

On Aug 04, 2015 4:51 PM Jcancom wrote:

Exactly.

Have labs done.

Dose with a single round of IV 1-2 mg/kg 3-BP.

Have labs redone.

If markers have moved, then start combining and dose up.

If markers have not moved, then it is somewhat tricky.
J, would you say it was tricky for teh melanoma case? Considering that case, would you stake the same approach? Concluding after a single dose is a bit tricky, I think.
Melnoma patient used paracetamol for glutathamine. Was that the best approach? Are there better alternatives? Probably there are, ketogenic diet and 2dg are definitely better synergists. Who can prove that, nobody, unless we try it as mules.

Those who have practised and see it on a daily basis are the best to answer. Are they sharing their success stories, no. So are there success stories apart from the handful we have heard. Who knows!!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 01:24 PM
Quote | ReplyI do not understand.

Figure 3 of below url shows that after 1 IV 3-BP of 1 mg/kg (without combinations) LDH moved from 4300 to 3100. This was exactly the kind of response I would be looking for. This patient then went on to a near curative response with further treatment.

Many patients would have a difficult time spending $30,000 only not to have a response. It would make things so much easier for them if they had an initial response after a single treatment. I would not be as sure what to do if there was not an initial response. 3-BP is effective within minutes of treatment.

Markers were not given for the liver patient so a similar conclusion can not be reached for this patient. However, the clinical results of feeling better and improved appetite even after the first treatment suggest that the liver patient also had a measurable response after one treatment

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Aug 04, 2015 02:08 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 5:24 PM Jcancom wrote:

I do not understand.

Figure 3 of below url shows that after 1 IV 3-BP of 1 mg/kg (without combinations) LDH moved from 4300 to 3100. This was exactly the kind of response I would be looking for. This patient then went on to a near curative response with further treatment.

Many patients would have a difficult time spending $30,000 only not to have a response. It would make things so much easier for them if they had an initial response after a single treatment. I would not be as sure what to do if there was not an initial response. 3-BP is effective within minutes of treatment.

Markers were not given for the liver patient so a similar conclusion can not be reached for this patient. However, the clinical results of feeling better and improved appetite even after the first treatment suggest that the liver patient also had a measurable response after one treatment

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c jc-33-07-356-g003/"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c
J, you are right about the melanoma patient indeed. Beyond that, it seems that the MCT1 expression can be forced with various treatments such as oxygen, etc. This is also the goal of Dayspring with their extensive treatment, i.e. to induce MCT1 in cancer cells. Offcourse the best is to have response from the first administration but if not, there are chances to induce that + some may have a higher MCT1 expression than others. Next to the MCT1, like we discussed, there may be other challanges to overcome such as the one that we intensivly discussed, Gluthadiole, or simply tumor perfusion, or 3BP preparation. The point is that an initial response is great but if that is not the case there may be ways to get to that by tunning various points.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Aug 04, 2015 02:30 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 6:08 PM Danielus wrote:

On Aug 04, 2015 5:24 PM Jcancom wrote:

I do not understand.

Figure 3 of below url shows that after 1 IV 3-BP of 1 mg/kg (without combinations) LDH moved from 4300 to 3100. This was exactly the kind of response I would be looking for. This patient then went on to a near curative response with further treatment.

Many patients would have a difficult time spending $30,000 only not to have a response. It would make things so much easier for them if they had an initial response after a single treatment. I would not be as sure what to do if there was not an initial response. 3-BP is effective within minutes of treatment.

Markers were not given for the liver patient so a similar conclusion can not be reached for this patient. However, the clinical results of feeling better and improved appetite even after the first treatment suggest that the liver patient also had a measurable response after one treatment

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c "" target="\_blank" 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rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c
J, you are right about the melanoma patient indeed. Beyond that, it seems that the MCT1 expression can be forced with various treatments such as oxygen, etc. This is also the goal of Dayspring with their extensive treatment, i.e. to induce MCT1 in cancer cells. Offcourse the best is to have response from the first administration but if not, there are chances to induce that + some may have a higher MCT1 expression than others. Next to the MCT1, like we discussed, there may be other challanges to overcome such as the one that we intensivly discussed, Gluthadiole, or simply tumor perfusion, or 3BP preparation. The point is that an initial response is great but if that is not the case there may be ways to get to that by tunning various points.
The IVs we are getting constantly frustrate me...the nurse is lovely but she will mix everything together then fiddle around for 10 minutes before inserting the needle. I often wonder about this. Don is getting paracetamol and oxygen during delivery yet I see no improvement. We get the markers done again this Thursday. Oh, and I give him topical three times a day and nebulizer once or twice. 2DG has been shipped.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 02:36 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 5:12 PM Jcancom wrote:

The Toronto clinic would be perfect to try this out. (Unfortunately, only for Canadians)

You could do the whole package: labs, and single IV 3-BP for about $400.

It would be a great marketing move for other clinics to offer such a service. They could then start offering money guarantees: "Cancer cured or money refunded". That would be amazing. This would make it much easier for patients to write the 3-BP cheque.

So many times with cancer treatment people will spend up to 100s of K without any sense whether the treatment would work for them. With 3-BP if you move the markers on the first treatment, it would seem unlikely that they would not keep moving with more treatment.

Offering a money back guarantee would propel 3-BP into the spotlight. It would be a brilliant marketing tactic. I am not aware of money back guarantees ever being offered in cancer treatment. Cancer has always been so ... unpredicatable. Yet with 3-BP, if you can remove the cancer cells energy supply and you see this response, it seems reasonably certain that the cancer will have a difficult time finding a way around and the response will continue. For the liver patient, the cancer cells even a year after starting treatment had still not figured out a resistance pathway.

I would think that mass media would almost have to pick up on a "Satisfication Guaranteed or Money Refunded" pledge for cancer. I am not sure whether they could guarantee  patients that they would be fully satisfied just satisfied. Nothing else about 3-BP seems to have captivated their interest including curing a terminally terminally ill metastatic liver patient, good responses from Dayspring with a stage IV pancreatic and breast patient, metabolic cure of a metastatic melanoma patient, 2 other responses with primary liver patients at Hopkins ...

It still possible that 3-BP might work for people even if did not work on the first treatment, though this would be much less certain. Perhaps clinics could still offer these patients 3-BP without the money back guarantee.
I've called them about two weeks ago RE: 3BP after some email communication. They barely played up 3BP and mainly talked about their Insulin Potentiated Therapy.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Aug 04, 2015 02:43 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 6:36 PM Meech90 wrote:

On Aug 04, 2015 5:12 PM Jcancom wrote:

The Toronto clinic would be perfect to try this out. (Unfortunately, only for Canadians)

You could do the whole package: labs, and single IV 3-BP for about $400.

It would be a great marketing move for other clinics to offer such a service. They could then start offering money guarantees: "Cancer cured or money refunded". That would be amazing. This would make it much easier for patients to write the 3-BP cheque.

So many times with cancer treatment people will spend up to 100s of K without any sense whether the treatment would work for them. With 3-BP if you move the markers on the first treatment, it would seem unlikely that they would not keep moving with more treatment.

Offering a money back guarantee would propel 3-BP into the spotlight. It would be a brilliant marketing tactic. I am not aware of money back guarantees ever being offered in cancer treatment. Cancer has always been so ... unpredicatable. Yet with 3-BP, if you can remove the cancer cells energy supply and you see this response, it seems reasonably certain that the cancer will have a difficult time finding a way around and the response will continue. For the liver patient, the cancer cells even a year after starting treatment had still not figured out a resistance pathway.

I would think that mass media would almost have to pick up on a "Satisfication Guaranteed or Money Refunded" pledge for cancer. I am not sure whether they could guarantee  patients that they would be fully satisfied just satisfied. Nothing else about 3-BP seems to have captivated their interest including curing a terminally terminally ill metastatic liver patient, good responses from Dayspring with a stage IV pancreatic and breast patient, metabolic cure of a metastatic melanoma patient, 2 other responses with primary liver patients at Hopkins ...

It still possible that 3-BP might work for people even if did not work on the first treatment, though this would be much less certain. Perhaps clinics could still offer these patients 3-BP without the money back guarantee.
I've called them about two weeks ago RE: 3BP after some email communication. They barely played up 3BP and mainly talked about their Insulin Potentiated Therapy.Aside from Dayspring (and maybe them too) they ALL seem to play it down.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Aug 04, 2015 02:47 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 6:36 PM Meech90 wrote:

On Aug 04, 2015 5:12 PM Jcancom wrote:

The Toronto clinic would be perfect to try this out. (Unfortunately, only for Canadians)

You could do the whole package: labs, and single IV 3-BP for about $400.

It would be a great marketing move for other clinics to offer such a service. They could then start offering money guarantees: "Cancer cured or money refunded". That would be amazing. This would make it much easier for patients to write the 3-BP cheque.

So many times with cancer treatment people will spend up to 100s of K without any sense whether the treatment would work for them. With 3-BP if you move the markers on the first treatment, it would seem unlikely that they would not keep moving with more treatment.

Offering a money back guarantee would propel 3-BP into the spotlight. It would be a brilliant marketing tactic. I am not aware of money back guarantees ever being offered in cancer treatment. Cancer has always been so ... unpredicatable. Yet with 3-BP, if you can remove the cancer cells energy supply and you see this response, it seems reasonably certain that the cancer will have a difficult time finding a way around and the response will continue. For the liver patient, the cancer cells even a year after starting treatment had still not figured out a resistance pathway.

I would think that mass media would almost have to pick up on a "Satisfication Guaranteed or Money Refunded" pledge for cancer. I am not sure whether they could guarantee  patients that they would be fully satisfied just satisfied. Nothing else about 3-BP seems to have captivated their interest including curing a terminally terminally ill metastatic liver patient, good responses from Dayspring with a stage IV pancreatic and breast patient, metabolic cure of a metastatic melanoma patient, 2 other responses with primary liver patients at Hopkins ...

It still possible that 3-BP might work for people even if did not work on the first treatment, though this would be much less certain. Perhaps clinics could still offer these patients 3-BP without the money back guarantee.
I've called them about two weeks ago RE: 3BP after some email communication. They barely played up 3BP and mainly talked about their Insulin Potentiated Therapy.Same here. I will be ringing them tomorrow as they dont work Tuesdays. Will keep you posted.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 03:25 PM
Quote | ReplyI am glad that we talked through the strategy for non-response on initial 3-BP. Many patients who were intially non-responders would want some guidance on what to do next. I was not sure on this question, so I feel better that it was picked up on.

This is great news about the update for the pancreatic patient at Dayspring. I do not have the theological authority, though I believe a miracle should be declared for this patient. This stage IV pancreatic patient had "Very Poor Short Term Prognosis". No argument from me. If Dayspring is calling it "Very Poor Short Term Prognosis" for a stage IV pancreatic patient I, for one, believe them.

The thread should recognize this as a true medical miracle. The problem is that now skeptics will say: "Yeah, well what about 5 year survival?" ... . This thinking is not helpful. This patient likely had a 1% chance of being alive today and improving without 3-BP.

When you read the pancreatic threads on this forum, the message is simply give up. Those who have detailed knowledge of this form of cancer consider it utterly hopeless. So if it is so utterly utterly hopeless, right up there with winning the lottery, a snowball's chance, or a hole in one, how did Dayspring just nail it on their first treated 3-BP pancreatic patient?

Even I thought maybe there would be a little wiggle room, a little selection going on (There still might be some of that. They might have treated other patients in other indications and are only the success of the panceatic patient). The fact that Dayspring stepped up and launched the first pitch across the plate is actually a little spooky. This should end any discussion about 3-BP with intellectually honest people. Results have spoken louder than any words.

3-BP would be so much further ahead in development if we had accepted such successes as definitive and changed treatment plans accordingly. Patients would have benefitted so much if this had happened.

In fact, with the pancreatic patient Dayspring is reporting what actually happened when the patient decided to follow their conventional doctor's advice and restarted chemotherapy. CA19-9 marker went from the roughly 126 it had fallen to (from 530) with 3-BP treatment to 1,574!!! with 2 months (?) of chemotherapy! (See dayspring update for 7/30/2015) The patient decided that the 1574!!! reading suggested the chemotherapy might not be helping. After restarting 3-BP it has since fallen to 244. QED.

Rapid progress could be made in cancer if such critically ill patients were treated with 3-BP. There is no need for a 5 year clinical trial. Many of the patients we have considered on this thread had life expectancies of days to perhaps a month or two. We could have answers about 3-BP within a week or two. Depressingly, this has been true for the last 15 years! If those with authority are not willing to do the proper thing, then patients can. I am not entirely sure what the response will be when we report the first success on our thread  on par with what has been reported elsewhere. It will be probably be monumental.

Dayspring has succeeded where everyone has failed. Success should be rewarded and not failure. Wealth and esteem should flow to Dayspring. They have achieved something. Money and esteem should be withheld from those who have failed. Failure does not require any skill. Success does. In particular, curing a pancreatic cancer patient deserves the thread's respect. I am impressed.

The advance towards a cure for cancer would be greatly served if this success were considered definitive. This success should be understood as irrevocable. The problem has been that often questions have been raised after such successes have been achieved which has clouded the picture. For example, the liver patient after being cured of cancer developed a fatal liver overload. Many people would not fully appreciate how successful 3-BP treatment had been for him.

Miracles have happened with 3-BP.

Be glad!

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 03:37 PM
Quote | ReplyAbout all I can figure out about the clinics not wanting to highlight 3-BP can be expressed in the somewhat tortuous analogy: You go to the store and you want to buy 20 pounds of potatoes, the store owner tells you that what you really want is high quality cavier. You buy the cavier to make the owner happy, though you still only wanted to buy the potatoes.

3-BP are the potatoes.

I wonder whether you could check that the clinics were actually treating you with 3-BP. Do governments conduct checks to ensure that what is being claimed is being delivered? Making claims that a treatment were provided when in fact it was not would be fraud. Before a 3-BP finished, could you stop the treatment and ask for the remaining treatment so that you could have it analyzed?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 03:42 PM
Quote | ReplyDayspring seems to be putting 3-BP on the front page.

Their home page includes 2 references to 3BP in the header line "3bp Cases" , "Why 3bp?" . No other treatment they offer is highlighted in this way.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Aug 04, 2015 09:01 PM
Quote | ReplyI have been thinking about the statistical side of 3-BP.

Dayspring reported 1 pancreatic patient, so I thought they had perhaps treated at most 9 other such patients and were only reporting the patient who suceeded. So, I thought at a bare minimum 3-BP would be a 10% drug.

It turns out that Dayspring had only treated one pancreatic patient wuith 3-BP and this patient responded.  100% success. With this new information, I am upping my minimum predicted response rate to 33%. It is a guess, though perhaps a conservative one. As long as they are not using some obscure selection process then it is not an unreasonable guesstimate.

One thing that occurred to me is that with the extremely low odds of even short term survival in end-stage cancer patients it really surprises me that a pharmaceutical company has not picked up on 3-BP. If the pancreatic patient really was a 1% chance then even 1 patient could give you statistically significant results at 5%! Developing a 3-BP drug (e.g 3-BrOP) would seem to be a very attractive investment. Little clinical trial expense, short trial, quick payback.

Many cancer trials enroll thousands of patients who often have up to years of life expectancy. The drugs might only increase life expectancy by a few weeks or a month. After many years and large clinical trial expenses, there is still often no clear answer. Many times a new trial will need to be done.

With 3-BP you would have an answer probably within weeks! If you took truly terminal stage cancer patients with 1-2 months of life expectancy, then your trial would be cheap and brief. Even a few responders to 3-BP or other drug would certainly give a statistically significant result. About all you would have to do is better than 0.

I do not understand why this has not been done. It is almost surely a money maker.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Wed Aug 05, 2015 06:47 AM
Quote | ReplyI'm still at a loss at procurring this. Even though it's appears readily avalable and mass produced, there's a wall blocking the general public (the ones who need it) from getting it.

Not to side track the conversation but, anyone ever consider how this may help our other family members, our pets? Over my lifetime all but one of my pets eventually developed some form of cancer. My thought is 3bp may hold promise for other species too, right? This could open up a new treatment option in Vetrinary care and subsequent monetary stream. I even asked a vetrinary oncologist and they never even heard of 3bp. So it's not just our own medical field that's not up to date or researching this.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Aug 05, 2015 07:56 AM
Quote | ReplyAnother cancer patient told me you can.order  3 Bp here  http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/germany.html
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Wed Aug 05, 2015 08:00 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 11:10 AM mar60 wrote:

If my pets develop cancer i would give them Thc (cannabis) oil..also cured people
In dogs the oral bioavailability of CBD ranged from 13 to 19%, which is low http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2900742  In humans its just 6%. THC in humans is around 10% http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:45 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 11:56 AM mar60 wrote:

Another cancer patient told me you can.order "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://can.order " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">can.order  3 Bp here  http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/germany.html "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/germany.html " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/germany.html
Souds interesting but, wouldn't the company flag it as it would be shipping it from Milwaukke to here in the states? If it's really as easy as setting up a personal (key word) account I'm so doing it! I'm looking at that buy dca website and thinking, I may go with that today.

Because of all the serious health and life issues being shared on here, I didn't want to share what I'm here for. This is all a last ditch effort to try and help my cat. The poor girl was disgnosed with Lymphoma. After 4 months and over 10k worth of testing and treating for Inflammatory Bowel Disease, they came back with Lymphoma now. They gave her a week or two even. Though she's already past that. So I'm thnking 3-BP or DCA might help.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 3:45 PM HeathersHope wrote:

On Aug 05, 2015 11:56 AM mar60 wrote:

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Souds interesting but, wouldn't the company flag it as it would be shipping it from Milwaukke to here in the states? If it's really as easy as setting up a personal (key word) account I'm so doing it! I'm looking at that buy dca website and thinking, I may go with that today.

Because of all the serious health and life issues being shared on here, I didn't want to share what I'm here for. This is all a last ditch effort to try and help my cat. The poor girl was disgnosed with Lymphoma. After 4 months and over 10k worth of testing and treating for Inflammatory Bowel Disease, they came back with Lymphoma now. They gave her a week or two even. Though she's already past that. So I'm thnking 3-BP or DCA might help.
Heather is your cat? Well, here's what I think of this: GOOD FOR YOU. Our pets are family. Period. We love them and grieve their loss as we do the human members of our family and somehow the emotions are more raw as I think some sort of trip-switch effect takes place to protect our sanity when a close human family member dies. It allows us to do what we have to do and is probably built in to our DNA. Having a sick pet is a terrible worry and stress. I'd give it all I had - 3BP included. Sending you many good wishes for your beloved cat. Losing our first dog last year was among the saddest experiences of my life.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:14 PM
Quote | ReplyFor a furry friend perhaps the Chinese 3-BP would be of acceptable quality. Chinese 3-BP is readily available without restriction. They claim purity up to 99% which they call intermediate pharmaceutical grade. They might want to sell you a kilo of it.

Money does not seem to be a great problem here. It would be best to stick with the top of the line American chemical houses, though if that is not feasible you could always go Chinese.

Might then double check with a lab analysis. Could do a little bit of the analysis yourself. (Such an exercise would be a great help to others on the thread. We have not went through this yet. We could all learn a lot. Could buy a largish 3-BP order through China and analyze from there. For bulk orders the Chinese bring down the price.)

MD Anderson had great success with their 3-BP analog 3-BrOP in lymphoma.

http://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2009/novel-

I am not sure what the Toronto's clinic policy is regarding pets. Is your cat a Canadian citizen?

I hope the thread is not offended by my suggestion about using a different quality standard for four legged versus two legged animals. Pets are people too!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 4:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

For a furry friend perhaps the Chinese 3-BP would be of acceptable quality. Chinese 3-BP is readily available without restriction. They claim purity up to 99% which they call intermediate pharmaceutical grade. They might want to sell you a kilo of it.

Money does not seem to be a great problem here. It would be best to stick with the top of the line American chemical houses, though if that is not feasible you could always go Chinese.

Might then double check with a lab analysis. Could do a little bit of the analysis yourself. (Such an exercise would be a great help to others on the thread. We have not went through this yet. We could all learn a lot. Could buy a largish 3-BP order through China and analyze from there. For bulk orders the Chinese bring down the price.)

MD Anderson had great success with their 3-BP analog 3-BrOP in lymphoma.

http://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2009/novel- cancer-drug-reduces-neuroblastoma-growth-by-75-percent.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2009/novel-  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2009/novel-

I am not sure what the Toronto's clinic policy is regarding pets. Is your cat a Canadian citizen?

I hope the thread is not offended by my suggestion about using a different quality standard for four legged versus two legged animals. Pets are people too!
That is very helpful, J.  You bring up an interesting point about quality. Provided a 2 m filter is used, I would imagine the Chinese product would be as good as the American one. It just takes longer to come in.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:38 PM
Quote | ReplyI do not know whether a filter would work to reduce impurities in the actual product itself. The concern is that 3-BP product can have a percent or two of other chemicals.  For example, 3,3-dibromo-2-oxopropanoic acid, tribromo-pyruvic acid, etc. .

Members of the thread have asked 3-BP suppliers to provide the route of synthesis used. Suppliers have declined citing proprietary information. On a largeer order through China, they might supply the route of synthesis. This information would be of interest to those on the thread. Yet, the route of synthesis might not be the same for all suppliers.

Contacting a human clinic treating with 3-BP might not be a bad idea. The Toronto clinic might be one choice. The only others that we know of that offer a pay as you treat approach are in Germany. If your cat is in really serious condition you would want to make your arrangements for treatment quickly. Might just jump on a plane to Germany, would always be best to phone ahead.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Wed Aug 05, 2015 03:45 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you all for the encouragement and understanding. Right now my Heather's probably on borrowed time. Just took her to the vet and waiting for lab results. She appears to be getting anemic again and I believe the prednisolone that's keepiong her going is losing it's effectiveness. So I really don't have much time.

As I wrote in my first post, just 1g is more than enough for the initial treatment. It's extremely frustrating to have this  dangling carrot of hope I can't reach. If anyone knows a reputible place I'll see if I can get it. For China, that sounds like a promising suggestion. It's just getting it shipped out in day or so and then around the world. I keep coming up short Googling for it though.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Aug 05, 2015 05:23 PM
Quote | ReplyMight just be best to jump on a plane for Germany.

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/3--bromopyruvate.html
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Aug 05, 2015 09:23 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 9:23 PM Jcancom wrote:

Might just be best to jump on a plane for Germany.

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/3--bromopyruvate.html "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/3--bromopyruvate.html " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/3--bromopyruvate.html
These are only shipped to Germany?

LDH is down again (but it tends to go up and down quite dramatically, suggesting lysing perhaps).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 01:17 AM
Quote | ReplyI was thinking take the cat and jump on a plane to Germany then head for one of their 3-BP clinics.

The German clinics approach of pay as you go seems very reasonable.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Thu Aug 06, 2015 04:03 AM
Quote | ReplySigma seem to be offering 3 types of 3-BP:

ethyl bromopyruvate (90%), methyl bromopyruvate & bromopyruvic acid. Can anyone advise which one is the correct version?

Also I would be really obliged if anyone could point me in the direction of a chinese supplier who has been tried & tested in case I have a problem with germany.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Thu Aug 06, 2015 04:10 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 05, 2015 3:45 PM HeathersHope wrote:

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Souds interesting but, wouldn't the company flag it as it would be shipping it from Milwaukke to here in the states? If it's really as easy as setting up a personal (key word) account I'm so doing it! I'm looking at that buy dca website and thinking, I may go with that today.

Because of all the serious health and life issues being shared on here, I didn't want to share what I'm here for. This is all a last ditch effort to try and help my cat. The poor girl was disgnosed with Lymphoma. After 4 months and over 10k worth of testing and treating for Inflammatory Bowel Disease, they came back with Lymphoma now. They gave her a week or two even. Though she's already past that. So I'm thnking 3-BP or DCA might help.
The incidence of lymphoma is believed to be associated with exposure to feline leukemia virus (FeLV) and the feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV). Cats that have been infected with either of these viruses have a significantly higher rate of lymphomas than the general cat population. Interferon-Ω is an antiviral, antiproliferative, and immunomodulatory agent - this is produced by Virbac. Also this may help http://tcyte.com/  as could a DC vaccine http://www.petbiocell.de/en  As could subcutaneous low-dose IL-2, IL-12, or IL-15 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2150329/  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3994286/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 06, 2015 04:32 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 06, 2015 8:03 AM rliff wrote:

Sigma seem to be offering 3 types of 3-BP:

ethyl bromopyruvate (90%), methyl bromopyruvate & bromopyruvic acid. Can anyone advise which one is the correct version?

Also I would be really obliged if anyone could point me in the direction of a chinese supplier who has been tried & tested in case I have a problem with germany.
Bromopyruvic acid is the right one. Where are you loccated? Germany?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Thu Aug 06, 2015 06:44 AM
Quote | ReplyI'm in the UK. I won't be able to source it from Sigma here, but was  going to try Germany.  Will probably get redirected, but its worth a try.  China would seem to be the best bet, but I don't know of any reputable suppliers there
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 06, 2015 07:13 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 06, 2015 10:44 AM rliff wrote:

I'm in the UK. I won't be able to source it from Sigma here, but was  going to try Germany.  Will probably get redirected, but its worth a try.  China would seem to be the best bet, but I don't know of any reputable suppliers there
With Sigma make sure you give a business address. They are always checking if it is private - that is the first filter to reject orders.

With Chinese sources you will never be 100% confident on quality/purity/etc. even if you trust a lot the supplier. But when there is no other option China is good. What is reputable? I can help with suggesting a supplier I am using but while I did verified the received product and trust the supplier I can not guarantee anything. In the end it is still coming from China.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 02:04 PM
Quote | ReplyCould someone on the thread (for example, someone with knowledge of pancreatic cancer) provide an assessment of the prognosis of the pancreatic patient on the Dayspring site if 3-BP had not been given?

Dayspring described the patient as Stage IV "Very Poor Short Term Prognosis". Patient started with a CA19-9 marker at 530 went down to 126 with 2 month's of 3-BP treatment, then increased to 1,574 when patient went off 3-BP and on chemotherapy, and then decreased to 244 with another month or so of 3-BP.

I am totally guessing with a 1% short term survival without 3-BP treatment. Can anyone verify this? Can people actually survive over even a few months with a CA19-9 reading anywhere near 1500 (35 is normal)?

Critics cannot play this both ways. If this patient had a nearly 0% of doing as well as has been documented, then this means that the response to 3-BP in this instance has been almost impossibly miraculous.

The lower the expectation, the greater the improbability!

It is even more impressive that Dayspring has only treated 1 pancreatic cancer patient. There has been no selection.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 03:38 PM
Quote | Replyrliff: Have you really been trying to source 3-BP for a year?

You are a really early adopter! The melanoma patient was only published in July,2014. This thread only started humming about February of this year!
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 05:02 PM
Quote | ReplyThe prognosis for Stage Four Pancreatic Cancer is 1% 5 year survival. This is one of the toughest cancers to conquer - as Steve Jobs demonstrated, no amount of money can upset the odds.

That said, I don't know if this patient was indeed Stage Four, nor if that was the only pancreatic cancer patient treated with 3BP at Daysprings.

I would just suggest caution when reviewing a single case.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 06, 2015 05:17 PM
Quote | ReplyI've been trying to source it for 11 months so she beat me...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 05:29 PM
Quote | ReplyMy point exactly. Probably why the FDA granted 3-BP orphan drug designation in pancreatic and, bile duct and liver cancer over the last year or two.

Yes there is quite a bit of heresay evidence involved. Could anyone on the thread verify Dayspring's claim on the basis of their clinical description and markers? I would tend to believe them. The comment from the patient seems to add support to the claim.

Some more heresay. In the below thread post, it was mentioned that this Stage IV pancreatic patient was the ONLY pancreatic cancer patient treated at Dayspring by the doctor talked to. That would make it 100%! There was no selection involved. Sure, it is only one patient though how many people can step up to the plate with a 1% chance and nail it? This might be why Dayspring seemed so willing to step up for the gofundme patient.

Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:09 PM
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 06, 2015 05:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 06, 2015 9:29 PM Jcancom wrote:

My point exactly. Probably why the FDA granted 3-BP orphan drug designation in pancreatic and, bile duct and liver cancer over the last year or two.

Yes there is quite a bit of heresay evidence involved. Could anyone on the thread verify Dayspring's claim on the basis of their clinical description and markers? I would tend to believe them. The comment from the patient seems to add support to the claim.

Some more heresay. In the below thread post, it was mentioned that this Stage IV pancreatic patient was the ONLY pancreatic cancer patient treated at Dayspring by the doctor talked to. That would make it 100%! There was no selection involved. Sure, it is only one patient though how many people can step up to the plate with a 1% chance and nail it? This might be why Dayspring seemed so willing to step up for the gofundme patient.

Mon Aug 03, 2015 06:09 PM
J, where did I read that there was another patient who ate hotdogs and Twinkies (or something similar) and so he was not responding to the treatment? Wasn't this a Dayspring pancreatic patient that Dr. Dickens mentioned?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 05:46 PM
Quote | ReplyI am quite impressed that we have so many early adopters around here. Are there really that many readers of the Chinese Journal of Cancer? Most of the clinical story of 3-BP has happened this calendar year!

The melanoma patient article was epublished on March 14th, 2014. This thread was dormant for over a year until it was reactivated in September 2014. It gradually built up over the next few months.

This thread has been riding an exponentially increasing post count ever since (see wiki figure).

I now declare the thread as being fully launched!! There are people popping up all over the place now. I wonder when we'll be too big to be a village anymore? Success always  turns the village feel into the shopping mall feel.

Whenever there are new posters I give'em a hearty welcome and wait for the girls on the thread to help out. I suppose they then meet up in a washroom and become BFF. How do women do that?

The liver patient did not seem to have enough widespread applicability to cancer patients. The melanoma patient showed that a massive anti-tumor effect could be achieved with a simple IV  3-BP combined with paracetamol. This was the pivotal insight that has propelled the success of  3-BP.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 06:07 PM
Quote | ReplyThis thread has gotten so long that it is almost impossible to find anything! Yes, I also recall that some Dayspring patients were non-responders to 3-BP, though they might have had other indications and other circumstances. It should also be noted that the gofundme patient went to Dayspring, though I am not entirely sure whether this patient should be called a treatment non-success.

It would be instructive for others on the thread to read the comments from Dr. Dickens on our thread. (Go to the post  date stamped below and click on his hyperlinked name for his comments) Quite a bit of what he posted stands up well. They stepped up to the plate confidently and then cured the pancreatic cancer. They called the outcome and they were right.

His statements about the ineffectiveness of conventional medicine and its unwillingness to innovate also resonate.

Sat Nov 29, 2014 01:38 PM
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 06, 2015 06:42 PM
Quote | Reply"I suppose they then meet up in a washroom and become BFF. How do women do that?"  LOLOL! That made me laugh.  I went of the hunt for 3BP after reading TOTT.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Aug 07, 2015 02:33 AM
Quote | ReplyYes, I have.  I read Dr Seyfrieds book 'cancer as a metabolic disease' early last year ( & went to see him speak at the 2014 ketogenic symposium in liverpool) -He  rates 3BP & the work of Drs Pedersen & Ko, very highly. My wife has been on  the Ketogenic diet for about 18 months, with the addition of hyperbaric oxygen ( Re Dr D'Agostino, who also gave a talk at the symposium ), 2DG & Metformin then 2DG & DCA. but her NSSLC (BAC) has now progressed.  Seyfried & Pedersen both speak very highly of Dr Ko & her work with 3BP, but try as i might I can't get a reply from her re protocol or source. I gave up searching late last year, & we have been following the orthodox route with the Matrix Genetic profiling trial, but the first drug has failed completely.  My interest was re kindled when I heard of the Dayspring clinic, but being in the UK & due to my wifes health ( & our bank balance !) that route is out, so I am exploring either self administering or Germany for treatment
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Aug 07, 2015 02:40 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 06, 2015 7:38 PM Jcancom wrote:

rliff: Have you really been trying to source 3-BP for a year?

You are a really early adopter! The melanoma patient was only published in July,2014. This thread only started humming about February of this year!
Yes, I have.  I read Dr Seyfrieds book 'cancer as a metabolic disease' early last year ( & went to see him speak at the 2014 ketogenic symposium in liverpool) -He  rates 3BP & the work of Drs Pedersen & Ko, very highly. My wife has been on  the Ketogenic diet for about 18 months, with the addition of hyperbaric oxygen ( Re Dr D'Agostino, who also gave a talk at the symposium ), 2DG & Metformin then 2DG & DCA. but her NSSLC (BAC) has now progressed.  Seyfried & Pedersen both speak very highly of Dr Ko & her work with 3BP, but try as i might I can't get a reply from her re protocol or source. I gave up searching late last year, & we have been following the orthodox route with the Matrix Genetic profiling trial, but the first drug has failed completely.  My interest was re kindled when I heard of the Dayspring clinic, but being in the UK & due to my wifes health ( & our bank balance !) that route is out, so I am exploring either self administering or Germany for treatment
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Aug 07, 2015 02:41 AM
Quote | Replyooops - seem to have posted that twice
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Aug 07, 2015 03:07 AM
Quote | ReplyI am sorry to hear that Rliff. Is she still having Hyperbaric Oxy? Positive on PET? Did she took 2DG and DCA oral version or IV? Have you seen an initial response to these and that stopped or no response? What was the drug used in the Matrix Genetic trial?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Aug 07, 2015 03:27 AM
Quote | Replyshe gave up the Hyperbaric oxygen last year, as it seemed to exacerbate her cough ( which wasn't very nice for the other people in the chamber !).  I am assuming she is positive (not being radiologists) on PET - we've got a copy of a PET scan from a hospital she attended mid last year ( we've since changed hospitals), which we  are attempting to confirm  glycolitic status. She took oral versions of 2DG & DCA, which at best seem to slow it down a bit.  Her genetic profile showed KRAS & LKB1 mutations, so she was prescribed AZD2014, an mTOR inhibitor, which didn't work. She is starting treatment with an CDK4/6 inhibitor Palbociclib next week.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:00 AM
Quote | ReplyThis is exciting. We have another 3-BP clinic!!

The thread has been aware for some time now of a Dutch/German clinic that appeared to offer 3-BP, though it was not completely clear whether this were in fact true.

It is now clear.

This clinic is now promoting treatment with 3-BP on their website. There seem to be quite a few clinics that will treat with 3-BP quietly. There are only a few clinics in the world that the thread is aware of that publicly acknowledge 3-BP treatment. kankerbehandelen is the only one known to us in Europe.

http://kankerbehandelen.nl/3-bromopyruvate/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:15 AM
Quote | ReplyGoogle Chrome translate that for you J :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:36 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 3:03 PM Jcancom wrote:

"3-BP  overtreft ver gerichte therapieën. Gerichte therapieën worden snel achterhaald (de kankercellen zijn te divers voor een gerichte therapie om een ??langdurig effect hebben). Maar 3-BP werkt op alle PET-scan positieve kankercellen. Deze kankercellen hebben een uniek celmetabolisme die kunnen worden aangevallen door een klein molecuul zoals 3-BP.

Patiënten, wetenschappers en vele anderen zijn vaak geïnteresseerd of 3-BP effectiever en minder giftig is voor kankerpatiënten dan momenteel goedgekeurde chemotherapie.
Zeker is dit het geval.
3-BP is een van de meest effectieve anti-kanker geneesmiddelen
3-BP richt zich op de superieure energieproductie van kankercellen, niet op die van normale cellen.

Er zijn twee energie (ATP) productie fabrieken in de cel, dat wil zeggen glycolyse en mitochondriale oxidatieve fosforylering. In normale cellen (Fig. 1), is ongeveer 5% van het totale cellulaire energie (ATP) productie afkomstig van glycolyse en ongeveer 95% van de mitochondria.3 In kankercellen (fig. 2), de energieproductie door glycolyse significant verhoogd (tot 60%). 4 Deze dramatische verhoging van de glycolyse in kankercellen leidt tot een significante toename van de melkzuurproductie."

Could anyone translate this?
Isn't this German AND Dutch?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:37 AM
Quote | ReplyWell, yes... though where would the fun be in that?

Readers of the thread will start off reading thinking "Oh, this must be German". Mid-way through they will start to think "This isn't German! What is this?"

Made'm think. That's a good thing.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 3:36 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 07, 2015 3:03 PM Jcancom wrote:

"3-BP  overtreft ver gerichte therapieën. Gerichte therapieën worden snel achterhaald (de kankercellen zijn te divers voor een gerichte therapie om een ??langdurig effect hebben). Maar 3-BP werkt op alle PET-scan positieve kankercellen. Deze kankercellen hebben een uniek celmetabolisme die kunnen worden aangevallen door een klein molecuul zoals 3-BP.

Patiënten, wetenschappers en vele anderen zijn vaak geïnteresseerd of 3-BP effectiever en minder giftig is voor kankerpatiënten dan momenteel goedgekeurde chemotherapie.
Zeker is dit het geval.
3-BP is een van de meest effectieve anti-kanker geneesmiddelen
3-BP richt zich op de superieure energieproductie van kankercellen, niet op die van normale cellen.

Er zijn twee energie (ATP) productie fabrieken in de cel, dat wil zeggen glycolyse en mitochondriale oxidatieve fosforylering. In normale cellen (Fig. 1), is ongeveer 5% van het totale cellulaire energie (ATP) productie afkomstig van glycolyse en ongeveer 95% van de mitochondria.3 In kankercellen (fig. 2), de energieproductie door glycolyse significant verhoogd (tot 60%). 4 Deze dramatische verhoging van de glycolyse in kankercellen leidt tot een significante toename van de melkzuurproductie."

Could anyone translate this?
Isn't this German AND Dutch?
Just Dutch maybe although I see a lot of German words in there. Daniel can likely read it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:49 AM
Quote | ReplyHaha...well I see more Dutch than German and I even see French.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:54 AM
Quote | ReplyThis new 3-BP clinic is great great news!

Another clinic has went through a serious thought process and have decided that 3-BP is a treatment that they will offer. Considering that 3-BP is not an approved therapy and that it has not even started a clinical trial would require considerable due diligence. I am sure they have not taken this responsbility lightly.

I have some pull around this thread, so to the extent of my authority, I call for an official Thread Party Day! Things have been going so great around here this year that we have been parties all the time. I hope none of you are partied out from all the positive developments for 3-BP this year. Things are going great! WOO HOO!!

We now know of official 3-BP clinics in Scottsdale, Atlanta, Toronto, and now Brüggen. (There is also the clinic in The Philippines). Other clinics appear to be treating with 3-BP quietly.

Best Wishes everyone!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:15 PM
Quote | ReplyAs soon as we get home from our 3BP IV today, we will party. One day we will all throw a party for Daniel and J.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:25 PM
Quote | ReplyMore good news!

One of the large cancer forums that I had tried to post to about 3-BP and had my posts deleted and forever banned from their site have now allowed a poster to post about 3-BP.

If we are persistent, then we might just be able to access these forums. They probably realize that if they alienate their own established posters that their entire forum would deteriorate. They probably want to keep their audience and at least have the power to manage the 3-BP message.

Posters on this thread might try to post to some of these forums and spread the word. I would do so, though I have been banned from pretty much all of them ... forever.

Especially try to post to some of the more difficult cancers such as liver, bile duct and pancreatic. Often on these threads there will be people who simply have no idea what they should do: many will just give up on all further treatment. Suggesting 3-BP to them would be a great idea and could really help.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:27 PM
Quote | ReplyWhat forum?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:28 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 4:25 PM Jcancom wrote:

More good news!

One of the large cancer forums that I had tried to post to about 3-BP and had my posts deleted and forever banned from their site have now allowed a poster to post about 3-BP.

If we are persistent, then we might just be able to access these forums. They probably realize that if they alienate their own established posters that their entire forum would deteriorate. They probably want to keep their audience and at least have the power to manage the 3-BP message.

Posters on this thread might try to post to some of these forums and spread the word. I would do so, though I have been banned from pretty much all of them ... forever.

Especially try to post to some of the more difficult cancers such as liver, bile duct and pancreatic. Often on these threads there will be people who simply have no idea what they should do: many will just give up on all further treatment. Suggesting 3-BP to them would be a great idea and could really help.
Can you please post the initials of the forum?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:35 PM
Quote | Replyhttp://www.cancerforums.net/threads/45098-3-bromopyruvate-fo
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Aug 07, 2015 01:37 PM
Quote | ReplyJust came across something of interest as I was zooming around the internet...

There is an article published in the British Journal of Cancer:

www.nature.com /bjc/journal/v109/n4/full/bjc2013391a.html

"Targeting tumour energy metabolism potentiates the cytotoxicity of 5-aminolevulinic acid photodynamic therapy"

Well, as the article goes on, it describes the materials and methods used.  Most of the reagents were from Sigma-Aldrich.

It goes on to state that the glycolysis inhibitors used--3-BP and 2DG-- were kept refrigerated as solids.

So---does this mean that 3-BP needs to be refrigerated?  Or just kept in a cool place?

?????
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Aug 07, 2015 01:39 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 4:15 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

As soon as we get home from our 3BP IV today, we will party. One day we will all throw a party for Daniel and J.
Sounds good to me!!!!

Keep us updated how those i.v.'s are going.....best wishes!!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 01:47 PM
Quote | ReplyOn the cancerforum.net  thread I linked to, the discussion went on to ask whether 3-BP crosses the BBB. We have considered this question before on our thread and it is a extremely important question to fully address.

It would be wonderful if perhaps one of the patients going to a 3-BP clinic could help us further address this question. Perhaps a before and after scan of the brain would be helpful. Alternatively, a patient with primary brain cancer without mets outside of the brain could do these scans.

Brain cancer would be especially worrisome and it would be tremendously unfortunate if 3-BP could effectively treat all the cancer outside of the brain but not in the brain itself.

It is regrettable that many of these questions keep recurring and the research is not published to conclusively resolve these issues.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 03:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 5:47 PM Jcancom wrote:

On the cancerforum.net "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  thread I linked to, the discussion went on to ask whether 3-BP crosses the BBB. We have considered this question before on our thread and it is a extremely important question to fully address.

It would be wonderful if perhaps one of the patients going to a 3-BP clinic could help us further address this question. Perhaps a before and after scan of the brain would be helpful. Alternatively, a patient with primary brain cancer without mets outside of the brain could do these scans.

Brain cancer would be especially worrisome and it would be tremendously unfortunate if 3-BP could effectively treat all the cancer outside of the brain but not in the brain itself.

It is regrettable that many of these questions keep recurring and the research is not published to conclusively resolve these issues.
I am glad you addressed this, J, as I was about to. I read somewhere that when brain lesions disappear, the brain fills them in with fluid, which can have its own set of issues. I cannot recall specifically what the patient of Dr. Rosenberg's experience was, reported on this thread somewhere. I thought 3BP did cross the BBB, which could cause problems for people with primary brain cancer like glioma, or with significant mets. I find I read so much medical stuff that many of the stories merge together and inaccuracy results.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 07, 2015 04:04 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 7:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 07, 2015 5:47 PM Jcancom wrote:

On the cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancerforum.net  thread I linked to, the discussion went on to ask whether 3-BP crosses the BBB. We have considered this question before on our thread and it is a extremely important question to fully address.

It would be wonderful if perhaps one of the patients going to a 3-BP clinic could help us further address this question. Perhaps a before and after scan of the brain would be helpful. Alternatively, a patient with primary brain cancer without mets outside of the brain could do these scans.

Brain cancer would be especially worrisome and it would be tremendously unfortunate if 3-BP could effectively treat all the cancer outside of the brain but not in the brain itself.

It is regrettable that many of these questions keep recurring and the research is not published to conclusively resolve these issues.
I am glad you addressed this, J, as I was about to. I read somewhere that when brain lesions disappear, the brain fills them in with fluid, which can have its own set of issues. I cannot recall specifically what the patient of Dr. Rosenberg's experience was, reported on this thread somewhere. I thought 3BP did cross the BBB, which could cause problems for people with primary brain cancer like glioma, or with significant mets. I find I read so much medical stuff that many of the stories merge together and inaccuracy results.
OK, I have this wrong. The patient had brain mets but an autoimmune response caused swelling in the brain. It wasn't because 3BP crossed the BBB. Drat! I think this would be very important in our own case where micromets may be present in the brain.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Aug 07, 2015 04:20 PM
Quote | ReplyJust googled whether or not 3-BP can cross the BBB.

The Dayspring site came up with some positive thinking that it can.  The page "Why 3-BP?" on this site supplies information and references regarding the possibility that 3-BP as a pyruvate analog can indeed cross the BBB.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 04:38 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, we have went over and over this question on the thread (could search BBB on the wiki).

We are now starting to see some movement with new clinics opening. Some on the thread might be thinking of heading out to the German clinic. I thought that maybe if someone had  brain mets, then  a before and after scan could help us clarify the question.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:53 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 04, 2015 4:39 AM MSL1968 wrote:

Thank you Moonlitnight,

I hope he does start to respond from eliminating the melatonin and selenium. What was the selenium for? My husband takes antidepressants, I'm wondering if he should stop them? I hope that you will allow me to befriend you and keep me informed about your journey will the 3Bp. I'm very curious how it all works. We cannot afford Dayspring treatment, since my husband was fired from his job for having cancer and now we have medicaid. I was in nursing school and now I take care of him. I wish you the VERY BEST with 3Bp and I hope it WORKS!

Thanks for all of the information, Moon and keep me posted!

Ann
Ann, sorry I missed this. The selenium is an antioxidant that is supposed to help prevent cancer and support the immune response.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 02:57 AM

Quote | Reply

On aug 07, 2015 3:36 Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 07, 2015 3:03 PM Jcancom wrote:

"3-BP  overtreft ver gerichte therapieën. Gerichte therapieën worden snel achterhaald (de kankercellen zijn te divers voor een gerichte therapie om een ??langdurig effect hebben). Maar 3-BP werkt op alle PET-scan positieve kankercellen. Deze kankercellen hebben een uniek celmetabolisme die kunnen worden aangevallen door een klein molecuul zoals 3-BP.

Patiënten, wetenschappers en vele anderen zijn vaak geïnteresseerd of 3-BP effectiever en minder giftig is voor kankerpatiënten dan momenteel goedgekeurde chemotherapie.
Zeker is dit het geval.
3-BP is een van de meest effectieve anti-kanker geneesmiddelen
3-BP richt zich op de superieure energieproductie van kankercellen, niet op die van normale cellen.

Er zijn twee energie (ATP) productie fabrieken in de cel, dat wil zeggen glycolyse en mitochondriale oxidatieve fosforylering. In normale cellen (Fig. 1), is ongeveer 5% van het totale cellulaire energie (ATP) productie afkomstig van glycolyse en ongeveer 95% van de mitochondria.3 In kankercellen (fig. 2), de energieproductie door glycolyse significant verhoogd (tot 60%). 4 Deze dramatische verhoging van de glycolyse in kankercellen leidt tot een significante toename van de melkzuurproductie."

Could anyone translate this?
Isn't this German AND Dutch?
This is Dutch..
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sat Aug 08, 2015 03:56 AM
Quote | Reply"3-BP far exceeds targeted therapies. Targeted therapies are quickly outdated (the cancer cells are too diverse for a targeted therapy to have a lasting effect ??). But three-BP works on all PET scan positive cancer cells. These cancer cells have a unique cell metabolism which can be attacked by a small molecule such as 3-BP.

Patients, scientists, and many others, are often interested or 3-BP is more effective and less toxic than currently approved chemotherapy for cancer patients.
Certainly this is the case.
3-BP is one of the most effective anti-cancer drugs
focuses on 3-BP the superior energy production of cancer cells, not to those of normal cells.

There are two energy (ATP) production plants in the cell, i.e., glycolysis and mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation. In normal cells (Fig. 1), is about 5% of the total cellular energy (ATP) production from glycolysis and about 95% of the mitochondria.3 In cancer cells (Fig. 2), the energy production significantly increased by glycolysis (up to 60%). 4 This dramatic increase in glycolysis in cancer cells leads to a significant increase in lactic acid production. "

Google translate. Where was the source?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Sat Aug 08, 2015 07:08 AM

Quote | Reply

On sie 06, 2015 9:02 Caddy wrote:

The prognosis for Stage Four Pancreatic Cancer is 1% 5 year survival. This is one of the toughest cancers to conquer - as Steve Jobs demonstrated, no amount of money can upset the odds.

That said, I don't know if this patient was indeed Stage Four, nor if that was the only pancreatic cancer patient treated with 3BP at Daysprings.

I would just suggest caution when reviewing a single case.
Of course that's right - but Steve Jobs did not have the dreaded pancreatic adenocarcinoma - he had a neuroendoctrine tumor called insulinoma. Neuroendoctrine tumors are slow growing and often years pass before they're even detected. That's why after diagnosis Steve survived for 7 years and not 7 months.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 08, 2015 09:05 AM
Quote | ReplyIf Jobs could have been helped with 3-BP, then its development would now be on a completely different plane of reality.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 08, 2015 09:21 AM
Quote | ReplyThe source was the website from the Dutch-German clinic now treating with 3-BP. My orginal post with the extended quote has been deleted. I suppose that I can understand that as it was a "copywrite" violation. However, there might also be some intellectual property concerns about the 3-BP English language material on the clinic's following the Dutch. It seems very Arizonian.

It is odd, though, that all the messages that quoted my quote were acceptable.

http://kankerbehandelen.nl/3-bromopyruvate/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:26 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 08, 2015 1:05 PM Jcancom wrote:

If Jobs could have been helped with 3-BP, then its development would now be on a completely different plane of reality.
Yes...what a TRAGEDY this is!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:29 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 08, 2015 7:56 AM Caddy wrote:

"3-BP far exceeds targeted therapies. Targeted therapies are quickly outdated (the cancer cells are too diverse for a targeted therapy to have a lasting effect ??). But three-BP works on all PET scan positive cancer cells. These cancer cells have a unique cell metabolism which can be attacked by a small molecule such as 3-BP.

Patients, scientists, and many others, are often interested or 3-BP is more effective and less toxic than currently approved chemotherapy for cancer patients.
Certainly this is the case.
3-BP is one of the most effective anti-cancer drugs
focuses on 3-BP the superior energy production of cancer cells, not to those of normal cells.

There are two energy (ATP) production plants in the cell, i.e., glycolysis and mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation. In normal cells (Fig. 1), is about 5% of the total cellular energy (ATP) production from glycolysis and about 95% of the mitochondria.3 In cancer cells (Fig. 2), the energy production significantly increased by glycolysis (up to 60%). 4 This dramatic increase in glycolysis in cancer cells leads to a significant increase in lactic acid production. "

Google translate. Where was the source?
http://kankerbehandelen.nl/3-bromopyruvate/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:02 AM
Quote | ReplyHi everyone,

This may be a silly question. Do or can enlarged Lymph nodes from Lymphoma have increased temperature? On my Heather they are noticibly warm to the touch. I used a cheap kitchen IR sensor and noticed they are about 4-5 degree hotter than the surrounding area.

Thank you for any insight. Just thought it was odd when I noticed it.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 05:38 AM
Quote | ReplyIt would be great if we could somehow aggregate patient experiences with 3BP, especially now that we have contacts with a number of clinics and single self-administrators.

I'm not talking about anything designed to convince sceptical medics (no attempt at clinic trial methodology) just some rough and ready stats.

In researching LDN, I came across a site which had attempted to look at cancer outcomes from a single clinic. Something like this would be useful enough for us to get a sense of how well it's working:

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ldn\_and\_cancer.htm
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sun Aug 09, 2015 06:03 AM
Quote | ReplyI am using Ldn for 5 years now..it stopped the fatique,

joint, muscle and severe bladderpain (interstitial cystitis) .. it does not stop the cancer growth..but I do feel great although I have mets all over my body
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Emad-A on Sun Aug 09, 2015 06:57 AM
Quote | ReplyFirst : is there anyone knows how can i find 3-bromopyruvate  or purchase it ?

we all know that we can purchase an anti-cancer drug like DCA from www.puredca.com

but for 3-bromopyruvate i couldn't found any way to get it (like DCA)

Second : i heard about GcMAF and it's powerful anti-cancer effect , www.GcMAF.eu

they say that there is about 350 doctors and clinics in Europe are using it , and it can cure even stage 4 cancer in about 80% of people for about 1 year treatment

and you can buy the drug from here http://ibio.pt/buy/

it's name is GOleic , and it's not very expensive like other cancer drugs

My mother is stage 4 breast cancer , i really hope that i can get the best treatment for her

i have DCA now but i want more powerful treatment just like 3-BP and GcMAF
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 06:58 AM
Quote | ReplyMar60:

That's great to know, and I have ordered some, primarily to restore my immune function, with the hope that after my colon surgery, I can persuade circulating tumour cells not to get too comfortable....

...but I cited that page, primarily as an example of how we could make a realistic assessment of 3BP's effectiveness around the world. If we put together a confidential survey for 6 month impact (and beyond) we could start to get beyond anecdotes!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:48 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 8:02 AM HeathersHope wrote:

Hi everyone,

This may be a silly question. Do or can enlarged Lymph nodes from Lymphoma have increased temperature? On my Heather they are noticibly warm to the touch. I used a cheap kitchen IR sensor and noticed they are about 4-5 degree hotter than the surrounding area.

Thank you for any insight. Just thought it was odd when I noticed it.
Possibly elevated temperature because of inflammation?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 AM
Quote | ReplyHi can you please tell me from where to get it my husband Is PC and we r in palliative care can it help him for Better quality of life ??Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterjetsparkle

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:00 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 10:58 AM Caddy wrote:

Mar60:

That's great to know, and I have ordered some, primarily to restore my immune function, with the hope that after my colon surgery, I can persuade circulating tumour cells not to get too comfortable....

...but I cited that page, primarily as an example of how we could make a realistic assessment of 3BP's effectiveness around the world. If we put together a confidential survey for 6 month impact (and beyond) we could start to get beyond anecdotes!
Burt Berkson (an M.D. in New Mexico) is well-known for having used both LDN and alpha lipoic acid (either oral or i.v.) as a combination for helping cancer patients with some success. Although he does not promote this  actually as such-- since he would then be accused of treating cancer patients instead of their being under the "care" of oncologists.

He wrote a book: "The Alpha Lipoic Acid Breakthrough"--can be found on Amazon.  And then googling both LDN and ALA as a combination, many articles can be found on the internet.

The only difficulty though is that when using 3-BP, increased glutathione should not be encouraged--since it prevents the 3-BP from entering the cancerous cells.  Interesting that Berkson and others have had success with the combination of LDN and ALA with various illnesses.

So much to learn and sift through...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:02 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 3:00 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 09, 2015 10:58 AM Caddy wrote:

Mar60:

That's great to know, and I have ordered some, primarily to restore my immune function, with the hope that after my colon surgery, I can persuade circulating tumour cells not to get too comfortable....

...but I cited that page, primarily as an example of how we could make a realistic assessment of 3BP's effectiveness around the world. If we put together a confidential survey for 6 month impact (and beyond) we could start to get beyond anecdotes!
Burt Berkson (an M.D. in New Mexico) is well-known for having used both LDN and alpha lipoic acid (either oral or i.v.) as a combination for helping cancer patients with some success. Although he does not promote this  actually as such-- since he would then be accused of treating cancer patients instead of their being under the "care" of oncologists.

He wrote a book: "The Alpha Lipoic Acid Breakthrough"--can be found on Amazon.  And then googling both LDN and ALA as a combination, many articles can be found on the internet.

The only difficulty though is that when using 3-BP, increased glutathione should not be encouraged--since it prevents the 3-BP from entering the cancerous cells.  Interesting that Berkson and others have had success with the combination of LDN and ALA with various illnesses.

So much to learn and sift through...
Forgot to mention that ALA does increase glutathione levels...!!!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:22 AM
Quote | ReplyWelcome new poster!

I wasn't sure, though PC appears to mean pancreatic cancer in this context. Pancreatic cancer is difficult, so the thread gives you a warm welcome and our best wishes!

There are several clinics offering 3-BP. The official ones are in Scottsdale (US), Atlanta (US), Toronto (Canada), Brüggen (Germany). There are others, though they are more under the table. At the German clinics it appears there is a pay as you go model which for many might be the best choice. Germany now appears to be the treatment leader with 3-BP.

You might try even a single treatment round of 3-BP and do labs. It would be an easy choice to continue treatment if you responded right from the first treatment. (It is still possible that with further treatments a response might emerge even if the response did not happen on first treatment).

Giving 3-BP a chance makes considerable sense. It ahs been used now for months and has been found to at least be relatively safe.

3-BP has shown impressive near curative responses in very ill cancer patients. Not everyone would be expected to have such dramatic responses, though some of the clinics are claiming a fair amount of success. Many of the treated patients note that they feel better almost immediately. 3-BP can shut down the cancer cells' energy pathway within minutes. This would likely imply that even seriously ill patients would feel better quickly.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:27 AM
Quote | ReplyAbout the cat: Remember not to simply give the cat the human mg/kg dosage.

This mistake is often made when people convert mouse results to humans. This might result, for example, in having to drink 100 bottles of wine a day to get the human equivalent dosage  for reservatrol from mouse results. You need to scale the human dosage down by a factor of 12. So it would only be 8 bottles of wine a day.

You will need to remember to scale the cat dose.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:25 PM
Quote | ReplyYou are probably aware of this Stage IV pancreatic cancer patient who responded to 3-BP.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/

What was only recently known was that this was the only pancreatic cancer patient at this clinic treated with 3-BP. There was no selection involved. It is only one patient and selection in other ways might be involved, though it is still fairly remarkable. I wonder whether any stage IV pancreatic patient has ever responded as well to any treatment as this patient did?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:30 PM
Quote | ReplyWe haven't had any response at all yet. I can't help feeling that we are missing something...or does it not work in bone (where the majority of my husband's cancer lies).

We have been giving 1800 - 2300 mg paracetamol QD. I am wanting to pare this back to four days a week and maybe use 2800-3000 mg on those days, but we need a painkiller for knee and back pain for the remaining three days. Ibuprofen (the most effective) is out with 3BP, and he cannot have anything with ASA in it as his platelet count is very low. Naproxen is also out with 3BP. I could ask for straight codeine I guess, since he has a tendency towards diarrhea. One of the reasons for not wanting to use the paracetamol QD is that we are trying ketoconazole for the PCa and don't want to put too much pressure on the liver.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:33 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 4:25 PM Jcancom wrote:

You are probably aware of this Stage IV pancreatic cancer patient who responded to 3-BP.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/3bp-cases/

What was only recently known was that this was the only pancreatic cancer patient at this clinic treated with 3-BP. There was no selection involved. It is only one patient and selection in other ways might be involved, though it is still fairly remarkable. I wonder whether any stage IV pancreatic patient has ever responded as well to any treatment as this patient did?
J -

Is there any way to find out his 3BP regimine?  They say he did IV and oral but to know how often and how much would be sooo beneficial to those of us who are using the 3BP now.  Also, knowing what "other products to support 3BP" would be helpful.  I know Butyrate and Paracetamol have been suggested to increase effectiveness but knowing what they used for this patient would benefit all...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:51 PM
Quote | ReplyI think this is possibly the value added part of 3-BP treatment that the clinics can see. They have pretty much given up on those who might want to DIY with just straight 3-BP bought online for almost nothing. Straight 3-BP TACE seemed quite effective for the liver patient and for the melanoma patient combination paractemol was even more effective. This made it all seem so deceptively easy.

However, when patients do not respond right away, it appears that clinics seem able to convert some non-responders to responders with all sorts of smart treatments that open up the MCT-1 pathway etc. .

The clinical literature on this issue does not exist.

The Dayspring regimen is not entirely known. With all the treatments that they use it might be impossible to reverse engineer their protocol. The dosing and frequency of 3-BP might not be the most important thing to know. Knowing their protocol and rationale for co-treatments would be very helpful to know.

I suppose it is possible that even the patient might not know what treatments were used. The patient might just be happy to be better and would just leave it at that. It could be something so simple that many might even overlook. For example, it is somewhat surprising how greatly amplified the mealnoma patient's response was when paracetamol was added to the treatment.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:23 PM
Quote | ReplyPlease can u tell me where in canada 3 -bp is Being given ??Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJagdon

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:25 PM
Quote | ReplyFor Pancreatic Cancer,you need to usecocurrently 3BP and 2 DG for effective results..both work in different ways.

Concurrent use of 2-DG and 3-BrPA resuls in a greater decrease of pancreatic cancer cells and also facilitates ATP depletion

3-BP impairs the mitochondria of pancreatic cancer cells and induces cell necrosis, and  HIF-1α regulates the anticancer effects of 2-DG and 3-BrPA in pancreatic cancer cells.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:27 PM
Quote | ReplyCancer Immunotherapy Centers Toronto, Canada

http://cancerimmunotherapycentres.com/

(They only treat Canadian residents. Very reasonably priced. Could try even a single treatment and check for response.)

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/7.\_Clinics\_Offering\_3-B
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:27 PM
Quote | ReplyUse Black Cumin seed oil that kills most pancreatic cells effectively.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:33 PM
Quote | ReplyAlmost all tumours depend on Glycolysis,Amino acid Glutamine and fats glycerol...that provide substrates for TCA cycle.So  tackling only Glycolysis with anti glycolytics like 3BP might not work effectively for all cancers and cancers might swictch to glutamine and fatty acids for ATP generation.In  effect you need to check energy generation by all 3 mechanisms in cancer cells..if not resistance and non response is mostly possible.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:35 PM
Quote | ReplyYou may like to check Triglycerides levels.High  Triglycerides  along with reduced LDL could make entry into cancer cells and help in AT generation.Limiti ng Carbs and using statins can check this.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:36 PM
Quote | ReplySo what is the full combo that addresses glycolysis, glutamine and glycerol in one treatment?

(Is lactate also a cancer energy source? If so, should lactate also be addressed? Perhaps with 7ACC?)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:38 PM
Quote | ReplyMost cancers have genetic mutation like  activation of PI3k?Akt,HIF-1 alpha,cMYC,RAS and inactivation of P53 supressor genes.

It is essential to check at these points.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:39 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 6:27 PM Jagdon wrote:

Use Black Cumin seed oil that kills most pancreatic cells effectively.
Black cumin seed oil contains thymoquinone, also shown highly effective in vitro against prostate cancer. It appears to create high levels of reactive oxygen species in cancer cells, while depleting glutatione in cancer cells only. Note that, as I recall, the studies were carried out by the manufacturer, or an agent thereof.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:41 PM
Quote | ReplyMere application 3 BP for all cancers will not work in all cancer types due to heterogenercity,molecular biological variations and metabolic preferences e.t.c.,unless the earlier points are checked and considered.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:55 PM
Quote | ReplyThanks a lot dear I will check itQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJagdon

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Sun Aug 09, 2015 02:59 PM
Quote | ReplyLacatate in cancer cells from Pyruvate with LDH enzyme.This  step is where 3 BP comes into play and one of the reasons to check LDH while on BP to know Pyruvate is being cut off to being converted to Lactate.Lactat e is responsible for groth and invasiveness and also causes Hypoxia and Acidity known factors in aggressiveness of cancers.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 6:38 PM Jagdon wrote:

Most cancers have genetic mutation like  activation of PI3k?Akt,HIF-1 alpha,cMYC,RAS and inactivation of P53 supressor genes.

It is essential to check at these points.
Jagdon, I read this with interest. I find it somewhat coincidental then that the only two case studies (assuming they actually were the only two) - melanoma and liver - were cured using only 3-BP and, in one case, with added paracetamol. Do you think this is coincidence that they had none of those mutations? You have said "most cancers" and that is what is puzzling me (and of course bothering me no end as my husband is not responding as well as hoped - if at all).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:22 PM
Quote | ReplyThis one looks like a good crib sheet. Many familar names here.

http://health-notes.weebly.com/targeting-cancer-metabolism.h
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 7:22 PM Jcancom wrote:

This one looks like a good crib sheet. Many familar names here.

http://health-notes.weebly.com/targeting-cancer-metabolism.h tml"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://health-notes.weebly.com/targeting-cancer-metabolism.h  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://health-notes.weebly.com/targeting-cancer-metabolism.h
From the list of ATP depleters in cancer cells, we are using acetogenins (liquid supplement and tea), and 3BP with 2DG (latter held up in Customs). Our naturopath doesn't seem to think DCA would be helpful.  The E succinate - we were using that but were concerned about its antioxidant effects working against 3BP. My stepson advised us his friend cured himself from advanced lung cancer by eating 5 kilos of pawpaw fruit daily. Sounds good but I haven't been able to get more details.

Acetogenins such as Paw Paw Extracts
Dichloroacetic acid –DCA-
Methyl Jasmonate
Methylglyoxal
2-Deoxyglucose
3-Bromopyruvate
Vitamin E Succinate
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:35 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 6:41 PM Jagdon wrote:

Mere application 3 BP for all cancers will not work in all cancer types due to heterogenercity,molecular biological variations and metabolic preferences e.t.c.,unless the earlier points are checked and considered.
3-bromopyruvate is a specific inhibitor of hexokinase ll, it covalently binds to this enzyme and gives 100% irreversible inactivation. HK ll is 50-1000 times overexpressed in solid tumor cells
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:39 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 6:36 PM Jcancom wrote:

So what is the full combo that addresses glycolysis, glutamine and glycerol in one treatment?

(Is lactate also a cancer energy source? If so, should lactate also be addressed? Perhaps with 7ACC?)
In some LDL or HDL can be used http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2013/01/new-w  They also need to make thier own lipids
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 09, 2015 03:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 6:38 PM Jagdon wrote:

Most cancers have genetic mutation like  activation of PI3k?Akt,HIF-1 alpha,cMYC,RAS and inactivation of P53 supressor genes.

It is essential to check at these points.
Doctor -

My husband has theBRAF mutation (colon cancer).  What would you suggest for his type of cancer?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:07 PM
Quote | Replyhttp://forums.lymphoma.com/showthread.php?t=64488

Trying to post to this thread. The forum has all sorts of checks in place that make sure it is difficult for people like me who want to help others to post to their threads.

Seems like a whole bunch of people are picking up on 3-BP. If I could send some smoke signals to the lymphoma people I would want them to know of the work by MD Anderson in modifying 3-BP into 3-BrOP. Their preclinical results in lymphoma seemed quite strong. It has been held up though for years.

The NHL people might also be interested in our poster who had success with a DCA protocol.

Their thread also made an important point that we should note here. 3-BP has not been approved as an orphan drug. Perhaps it has only been designated. It is somewhat confusing. I am not sure whether there are any requirements to achieve what 3-BP currently has in liver and bile duct and pancreatic cancer.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:11 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is from OMIM. Looks like 3-BP might work nicely in a BRAF positive environment.

http://omim.org/entry/138140?search=3-Bromopyruvate&high

"By studying the transcriptomes of paired colorectal cancer cell lines that differed only in the mutational status of their KRAS or BRAF genes, ....found that GLUT1 was 1 of 3 genes consistently upregulated in cells with KRAS or BRAF mutations. The mutant cells exhibited enhanced glucose uptake and glycolysis and survived in low-glucose conditions, phenotypes that all required GLUT1 expression. In contrast, when cells with wildtype KRAS alleles were subjected to a low-glucose environment, very few cells survived. Most surviving cells expressed high levels of GLUT1, and 4% of these survivors had acquired KRAS mutations not present in their parents. The glycolysis inhibitor 3-bromopyruvatepreferentially suppressed the growth of cells with KRAS or BRAF mutations. ...concluded that, taken together, these data suggested that glucose deprivation can drive the acquisition of KRAS pathway mutations in human tumors. "
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:21 PM
Quote | ReplyNew 3-BP article everyone.

"3-BrPA-induced non-apoptotic necroptosis and ROS generation in NPC cells and provides potential strategies for developing agents against apoptosis-resistant cancers."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26239511
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:28 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 8:11 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is from OMIM. Looks like 3-BP might work nicely in a BRAF positive environment.

http://omim.org/entry/138140?search=3-Bromopyruvate&highligh  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://omim.org/entry/138140?search=3-Bromopyruvate&high

"By studying the transcriptomes of paired colorectal cancer cell lines that differed only in the mutational status of their KRAS or BRAF genes, ....found that GLUT1 was 1 of 3 genes consistently upregulated in cells with KRAS or BRAF mutations. The mutant cells exhibited enhanced glucose uptake and glycolysis and survived in low-glucose conditions, phenotypes that all required GLUT1 expression. In contrast, when cells with wildtype KRAS alleles were subjected to a low-glucose environment, very few cells survived. Most surviving cells expressed high levels of GLUT1, and 4% of these survivors had acquired KRAS mutations not present in their parents. The glycolysis inhibitor 3-bromopyruvatepreferentially suppressed the growth of cells with KRAS or BRAF mutations. ...concluded that, taken together, these data suggested that glucose deprivation can drive the acquisition of KRAS pathway mutations in human tumors. "
Thank you for this J.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:41 PM
Quote | ReplyWhen I read this I immediately wondered about the potential of a 3-BP and BRAF inhibitor combo.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 8:41 PM Jcancom wrote:

When I read this I immediately wondered about the potential of a 3-BP and BRAF inhibitor combo.
Than if you dont mind me asking, what would be the inhibitor of choice?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:49 PM
Quote | ReplyThe BRAF inhibitors have revolutionized the treatment of metastatic melanoma. I am not sure about their effectiveness in colorectal cancer.

Vemurafenib is one of the big BRAF inhibitors.

So, I wonder whether a 3-BP Vemurafenib combo in metastatic melanoma would be sensible?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 04:57 PM
Quote | ReplyThis whole idea about 3-BP in BRAF tumors is really quite "off-road". Want to get your threads checked with that one.

Might be best to stick to the available human clinical evidence.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Sun Aug 09, 2015 05:53 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 09, 2015 8:49 PM Jcancom wrote:

The BRAF inhibitors have revolutionized the treatment of metastatic melanoma. I am not sure about their effectiveness in colorectal cancer.

Vemurafenib is one of the big BRAF inhibitors.

So, I wonder whether a 3-BP Vemurafenib combo in metastatic melanoma would be sensible?
Vemurafenib has an ORR of around 40%. Resistance to vemurafenib has been discovered https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3724525/  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3711467/  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143360/  Even a combo of MEK/BRAF aren't that great, resistance will happen with them too. Most develop resistance within 6 to 7 months following initial treatment. For both ORR seems higher at 76%, but median duration of response is just 10.5 months http://www.onclive.com/web-exclusives/FDA-Approves-First-Eve

A combo of TILs and anti-ctla4 with anti-pd1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459355/  http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/16/24/6122.ful  Or DCVax-Direct https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiXbc2g6JyM  http://www.nwbio.com/NWBT\_ASCO\_2015\_5-30-15.pdf  http://www.nwbio.com/nw-bio-announces-data-date-dcvax-direct

Could 3BP be used first and then immune therapy in order to try and bring about long term cures?.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 09, 2015 06:03 PM
Quote | ReplyI wonder whether this might be the in door for 3-BP.

BRAF drugs are large money drugs. The companies might be interested in doing a combo trial with 3-BP. Finding ways to resist an energy blocker might be more challenging than single mutations.

Yes, the line of reasoning of starting with 3-BP and then going with an immune drug was exactly the strategy that Cytoluminator suggested on our thread. He felt that long term cures would require an immune therapy end strategy.

Cytoluminator claimed that he had been treating patients for over a year with a second generation 3-BP product combined with next generation PDT.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:08 AM
Quote | ReplyThere are quite a few people that are picking up on 3-BP. For example a new 3-BP Bladder cancer thread has just started up on Inspire. It references the recently published 3-BP bladder cancer journal article.

https://www.inspire.com/groups/bladder-cancer-advocacy-netwo

http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/14/1/135#B51

The comfort level with 3-BP appears to be increasing.

The discussion yesterday about 3-BP and BRAF has me thinking. The above article on bladder cancer and the below article on colorectal cancer both studied 3-BP and BRAF, with somewhat different results.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820374/

I wonder how BRAF status might have been involved with the melanoma patient's response to 3-BP. This patient has been constantly highlighted on this thread, though perhaps this new research on BRAF and 3-BP puts the results for this patient in a new light. About 50% of melanoma patients are BRAF positive. I wonder what the melanoma patient's BRAF status was and how this might have influenced his response to 3-BP. Would BRAF positive melanoma patient's be more expected to have such responses versus BRAF negatives? Should we expect that the melanoma patient is actually an outlier in 3-BP treatment and should not him to be our prototypical patient (that is, should we not be extrapolating his extreme response to others without melanoma and BRAF mutations)?

It is also interesting to consider the BRAF inhibitor 3-BP combo in melanoma. Would this be effective? What would be the best treatment approach, 3-BP first and then BRAF or concurrently?  BRAF drugs have been some of the first truly effective wonder drugs in solid tumors. In a substantial number of melanoma patients, large tumors quickly melted away. I would be very interested to know whether combining them with 3-BP might push these patients, who typically relapse, closer to a long term cure.

Considering how much money is involved with BRAF drugs, it might not be unreasonable to expect that others might pursue this line of research.

So many questions, so few answers!

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:43 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 10, 2015 3:08 PM Jcancom wrote:

There are quite a few people that are picking up on 3-BP. For example a new 3-BP Bladder cancer thread has just started up on Inspire. It references the recently published 3-BP bladder cancer journal article.

https://www.inspire.com/groups/bladder-cancer-advocacy-netwo rk/discussion/new-potential-treatments-for-bc/?reply\_sort=asc&page=1#replies"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.inspire.com/groups/bladder-cancer-advocacy-netwo  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.inspire.com/groups/bladder-cancer-advocacy-netwo

http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/14/1/135#B51 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/14/1/135#B51 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/14/1/135#B51

The comfort level with 3-BP appears to be increasing.

The discussion yesterday about 3-BP and BRAF has me thinking. The above article on bladder cancer and the below article on colorectal cancer both studied 3-BP and BRAF, with somewhat different results.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820374/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820374/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820374/

I wonder how BRAF status might have been involved with the melanoma patient's response to 3-BP. This patient has been constantly highlighted on this thread, though perhaps this new research on BRAF and 3-BP puts the results for this patient in a new light. About 50% of melanoma patients are BRAF positive. I wonder what the melanoma patient's BRAF status was and how this might have influenced his response to 3-BP. Would BRAF positive melanoma patient's be more expected to have such responses versus BRAF negatives? Should we expect that the melanoma patient is actually an outlier in 3-BP treatment and should not him to be our prototypical patient (that is, should we not be extrapolating his extreme response to others without melanoma and BRAF mutations)?

It is also interesting to consider the BRAF inhibitor 3-BP combo in melanoma. Would this be effective? What would be the best treatment approach, 3-BP first and then BRAF or concurrently?  BRAF drugs have been some of the first truly effective wonder drugs in solid tumors. In a substantial number of melanoma patients, large tumors quickly melted away. I would be very interested to know whether combining them with 3-BP might push these patients, who typically relapse, closer to a long term cure.

Considering how much money is involved with BRAF drugs, it might not be unreasonable to expect that others might pursue this line of research.

So many questions, so few answers!

The reprogramming of glutamine metabolism is mediated by oncogenic KRAS. So if no glucose is around then glutamine will be used as a fuel. 3BP targets HKII so its should be able to 'knock-out' both types of ATP in a cancer cell http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385868/  with a nice pic http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385868/ figure/F1/ BRAF or KRAS status shouldn't effect the response. However HKII might, it's 50-1000 times over-expressed. So those with a higher level may respond better than those without.

Also adding other things may help like the RKD, targeting glutamine with drugs like DON and/or lipids with statins and/or calcium hydroxycitrate. Also paracetamol

*BRAF drugs have been some of the first truly effective wonder drugs in solid tumors. In a substantial number of melanoma patients, large tumors quickly melted away* With these drugs resistance happens in around 6 months and the ORR is around 40%, CR is 1-2% and doesn't last either. A combo of drugs for melanoma that targets mutations gives a person a median duration of around 10/11 months. These are anything but wonder drugs. I did read a paper saying M2 macrophages (TAMs) also played a role in resistance too. So immunotherapies and drugs that target energy metabolism are the way forward in my view
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:58 PM
Quote | ReplyI was thinking of some of the stories that came out a few years ago where oncologists looked at the PET scans of melanoma patients and were just amazed at how profound and rapid the tumor responses were to BRAF drugs in melanoma.

The reports at that time were glowing. I am not sure whether such profound, though short term, responses had ever been achieved in solid tumors. Melanoma as one of the most immunological of all cancers seemed to be pointing the way to curing a broad range of cancer.

Though with cancer it has never been that easy. The goal posts quickly change. The researchers in melanoma  remember the decades and decades that zero progress was made. Now, breakthroughs in melanoma seem to be happening non-stop. There are quite a few additional immunology products now in development for melanoma.

I still wonder about the 3-BP BRAF combo. Perhaps a combo would prevent the resistance that is quickly seen when only using BRAFs. The published 3-BP melanoma patient was reported to have achieved a metabolic cure with 3-BP alone. I really wonder if a first round of 3-BP could be used for BRAF melanoma patients to essentially eliminate almost all of the cancer and then a second round could go in with the BRAF MEK combo to eliminate the few remaining cancer cells. It might be hard for the few remaining cancers to work out a path to resistance. As it is they are going in with the BRAFs from the start and when the resistance develops there is not much to fall back on. The 3-BP BRAF combo might be an effective one two punch.

This still might not be the total cure, though it might get quite close. Perhaps adopted T-Cells, oncoviruses etc. could then be used to maintain the response.

I am also trying to understand how the idea from the colorectal cancer article above about low glucose fueling KRAS mutations fits in. The article found that KRAS mutations resulted in large glucose intake but also an ability to withstand low glucose. This seems like a dangerous combination. These cells might be able to go dormant when glucose is absent and then quickly energize when it is present. Such cells might be able to thwart a low calorie/low glucose cancer treatment strategy.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Aug 10, 2015 01:35 PM
Quote | ReplyIt is difficult to understand how metabolics was ever dismissed in cancer research. How is it possible that only a small group of scientists carried this idea forward over the decades?

Even now those who have not been formally brainwashed into the correct way of thinking about cancer seem to be at a significant advantage in the race to effective cancer treatments compared to those who were formally trained.

Cutting off the energy supply to cancer cells seems intuitively obvious.

There appear to be a large range of possible targets many of which would not on first glance appear to be toxic. For example, 7ACC1 shuts off the influx of lactate into cells, without stopping 3-BP. (Normal cells should not require lactate.) In an earlier post it was noted that this approach had shown strong results in cells. MG, 3-BP, ... There are a long list of metabolic cancer drugs. Knowing the proper way to combine them for maximum effectiveness will take some effort.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Aug 12, 2015 05:53 PM
Quote | ReplyI have been constantly impressed by the near absence of claims on the internet that 3-BP is an ineffective cancer treatment. It is difficult to consider the researchers behind 3-BP as quacks. Such a claim is ridiculous. These researchers make most other legitimate researchers, by comparison, to reasonably considered as quacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_questionable\_cancer\_tr

I think it is important to consider this question from time to time because patients will naturally be interested in trying to assess the legitamacy of 3-BP treatment. Directly addressing this question might help them in their deliberations.

One striking aspect of 3-BP treatment effects strongly argues against it being fraudulent medicine: its rapid response. In the two published patients we have constantly referred to, the lung cancr patient from Columbia, presumably the 2 other successful primary liver cancer patients, and the 2 posted cancer patients on the Dayspring website, it is very impressive how quickly the patients responded.

With the published patients, symptomatic benefit occurred almost immediately after treatment. Further, the melanoma patient's LDH fell by 1200 after the initial dose range-dose of 3-BP. LDH readings cost $4.15. Clinics offer single dose treatments of IV 3-BP possibly costing a few hundred dollars. These clinics really need some help if they believe they have a winning strategy to deceive desperate cancer patients.

Rule number 1: Don't offer false cancer treatments that are actually claimed to be that overwhelmingly effective. It is so much better to make vague unfalsifiable claims.

Even many cancer drugs that have gained full regulatory approval offer modest benefits. Some of these drugs can cost up to hundreds of thousands of dollars and a typical cancer patient would be hard pressed to determine whether they had even benefited from the purported 1 or 2 month increase in life expectancy.

The liver cancer article made a truly flamboyantly extravagant claim that 3-BP was the most cytotoxic drug ever! This should presumably be a clear signal for fraudsters to stay clear. Such a claim would be too easy to refute. A patient could simply go to a clinic have one treatment, spend $4.15 and if they were not happy with the results, then they would not be required to return for additional treatment. This appears a reasonable approach for a patient to take. Many other cancer treatments require a much larger investment to determine response.

Not all patients will respond to 3-BP, not all patients will respond after only one treatment, though a one treatment then test treatment strategy might for some patients not be  unreasonable. Such a treatment might be turned in a day or two and then if necessary other treatments could be pursued. Employing a highly adaptive and rapidly adjustable treatment plan would be addressing the main advantage of cancer: its adapability.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Aug 12, 2015 09:08 PM
Quote | ReplySlight correction. "Kanker Behandelen" means cancr treatment in Dutch. I am not sure if this is the name of the clinic. It might be called "GezondheidsCirkelt" [Health Circle].
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Dlynn1210 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:03 AM
Quote | ReplyI generally do not respond to blogs for other types of cancer than I experienced. I had tonsil cancer and given a 50/50 chance of survival. When I was 47 years old I lost my husband to lung cancer. I have been on Cancer Compass for 8 years and know that as cancer patients and caregivers for loved ones diagnosed with this horrible disease we try to educate ourselves about cancer and how to beat it. When there is even a ray of hope you fight but my grandmother used to gently remind us that no one gets out of this world alive. When my husband, my best friend, was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer I was livid that he was not offered more options for treatment. It was only years after he passed away that I could objectively look at the situation and realized how unfair I had been to him in his last days. A close friend had shared with me after Jack passed away how worried he was about leaving me - not about his own death but how I would handle his leaving me. The time worrying what to do next and fighting doctors who knew the inevitable was coming robbed me of my last few weeks with my husband. When I was diagnosed with cancer several years later, I gave it entirely over to God. If my time on Earth was complete I accepted that but as long as I was given an ounce of hope by my oncologist, I would fight. Thank heavens the Canced Treatment Centers of America always gave me that hope. I have now been cancer free for 7 years. Fight with everything you have when there is hope but also pray for and accept God's Will even though it is not always what we want. DianaQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterDlynn1210

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Dlynn1210 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:37 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 07, 2015 4:25 PM Jcancom wrote:

More good news!

One of the large cancer forums that I had tried to post to about 3-BP and had my posts deleted and forever banned from their site have now allowed a poster to post about 3-BP.

If we are persistent, then we might just be able to access these forums. They probably realize that if they alienate their own established posters that their entire forum would deteriorate. They probably want to keep their audience and at least have the power to manage the 3-BP message.

Posters on this thread might try to post to some of these forums and spread the word. I would do so, though I have been banned from pretty much all of them ... forever.

Especially try to post to some of the more difficult cancers such as liver, bile duct and pancreatic. Often on these threads there will be people who simply have no idea what they should do: many will just give up on all further treatment. Suggesting 3-BP to them would be a great idea and could really help.
Cancer Compass was created and sponsored (paid for) by Cancer Treatment Centers of America so patients and caregivers can learn and support each other. I was treated at CTCA 8 years ago. Please remember that no one here is a medical doctor and few have any medical background. Someone posted a few days ago who did have a medical background and gave some true stats on 3-BP that were not encouraging but it got lost among the numerous posts. His wife has cancer and as he said, if there was a chance it would work, he would be going for it as he certainly had the funds to do so. In all my years on Cancer Compass people like Jcancom are what I refer to as a very dangerous individuals to those seeking information. Someone who researches everything on the Internet with no personal experience (no personal info provided where we generally let others know we are patients or caregivers) and gives out their opinions as facts. I was not in the least surprised when I came across that she/he as been banned for life from other forums. Ask yourself why that would be the case. DianaQuote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 06:31 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 13, 2015 9:37 AM Dlynn1210 wrote:

On Aug 07, 2015 4:25 PM Jcancom wrote:

More good news!

One of the large cancer forums that I had tried to post to about 3-BP and had my posts deleted and forever banned from their site have now allowed a poster to post about 3-BP.

If we are persistent, then we might just be able to access these forums. They probably realize that if they alienate their own established posters that their entire forum would deteriorate. They probably want to keep their audience and at least have the power to manage the 3-BP message.

Posters on this thread might try to post to some of these forums and spread the word. I would do so, though I have been banned from pretty much all of them ... forever.

Especially try to post to some of the more difficult cancers such as liver, bile duct and pancreatic. Often on these threads there will be people who simply have no idea what they should do: many will just give up on all further treatment. Suggesting 3-BP to them would be a great idea and could really help.
Cancer Compass was created and sponsored (paid for) by Cancer Treatment Centers of America so patients and caregivers can learn and support each other. I was treated at CTCA 8 years ago. Please remember that no one here is a medical doctor and few have any medical background. Someone posted a few days ago who did have a medical background and gave some true stats on 3-BP that were not encouraging but it got lost among the numerous posts. His wife has cancer and as he said, if there was a chance it would work, he would be going for it as he certainly had the funds to do so. In all my years on Cancer Compass people like Jcancom are what I refer to as a very dangerous individuals to those seeking information. Someone who researches everything on the Internet with no personal experience (no personal info provided where we generally let others know we are patients or caregivers) and gives out their opinions as facts. I was not in the least surprised when I came across that she/he as been banned for life from other forums. Ask yourself why that would be the case. DianaDear Diana, your story is impressive. I am so sorry to hear about the sad part and happy to hear about the positive side. If I understand correctly you have been helped successfully by mainstream medicine and that is great. Many people are helped by the mainstream but also a lot cannot be helped. In general, those who are spending time around "alternative" options are the last category or otherwise people that are curious enough to look beyond the conventional options and help others. To me Jcancom is one of those curious enough to search beyond the conventional options while not having personal experience in the field. However, he has great qualities that are needed in every team and I think he is a great part of our 3BP investigation team. Yes, he may generate a lot of info which sometimes may be misleading, but that is research and it is our responsibility to evaluate the relevance of that information. Research requires going through a lot of information (which may be irrelevant) and out of that pick a few grains of valuable information. Therefore, while I understand very well your concern, I think we need to see the constructive part, i.e. Jcancom is the guy who keeps this discussion alive, discussion that has succeeded to bring more clarity on 3BP status, successes and challenges.

Yes, very few have medical background around but let’s not forget that we are here because the conventional medical background cannot help, i.e. they have no idea how to solve our challenges. Fortunately, we are here a good number of capable people who together can uncover value that until today remained confined to academic field. For many this value brings the hope you are referring too and for others the solutions we are all looking for.

Please try to understand the value Jcancom brings to this discussion.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Dlynn1210 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 07:57 AM
Quote | ReplyI do understand the need for alternatives as they can some time help with side effects of conventional treatments and give hope when conventional treatments don't work. First off, I do have a heavy background in anatomy as my Masters is in Communication Sciences and Disorders and as a Speech Pathologist I had to know the body. This blog has been taken over by a select few and I couldn't even find the post from the chemist who gave an excellent response as to cost efficiency, why the trials are not forth coming, and most importantly, he has a huge stake in curing pancreatic cancer as his wife has it. He said finances were not an issue. This is someone who has the education, knowledge, and incentive to research 3bp and saw issues with it - serious issues. Others posting have gotten so wrapped up in Jcancom's responses that the post from someone who is educated in anatomy and physiology who has a huge personal incentive to find a cure for pancreatic cancer was pushed aside. In my 8 years on CC I have seen only a small number get involved in researching a topic that they had no personal knowledge of (not a cancer patient and no loved one with that cancer). I remember one young woman who wrote in that she had been diagnosed with a certain type of cancer and then discovered she was pregnant. They could not treat her until after the baby was born and to wait on being treated for 7-8 months could very well cost her life. She came here asking if anyone had waited to be treated for this particular type of cancer and survived after giving birth to a healthy baby. A man who was well known on CC for researching any given cancer or treatment and coming back with quotes said "Yes, I found a case in 1964 where the woman survived" and rattled off some things he found on the Internet about her type of cancer. This was not a question any of us other than him tried to answer. First, her life was on the line and she had been told she most likely wouldn't survive the cancer if she waited for treatment as it was a very fast growing aggressive cancer. Second, it was her baby and no one could tell her she should give up her child's life to save her own. All the rest of us did was comfort her. His well meaning lack of knowledge may have cost her her life. We never heard from her again so have no way of knowing if she survived or if her baby survived. When someone starts assuring people that an unproven alternative works or that they should try home infusions, even giving advice on how to dilute for a pet, this person has the capability to be extremely dangerous. Do your research but every trial will show positives and negative outcomes. As cancer patients and caregivers we want to believe only the positives. There has been paw paw mentioned as a cure for cancer. If it were so simple to cure cancer why are physicians and their loved ones dying from cancer? Because it is not a cure! When people devote so much time on an issue but have no personal involvement one needs to question why before hanging onto their every word. I repeat, if this person is truly a great researcher and not just grand standing, why has he/she been banned from several forums already? If what they were offering was so valuable why forbid them from posting - forever? No cancer patient or their loved ones need to be misled even part of the time. Listen to your oncologists who are specialists in this field. Our bodies are so compartmentalized that we need specialist for each portion. How can a lay person take in and decipher. Steve Jobs was mentioned in one post. Excellent example of someone that went the alternative route not because of expense but didn't want the side effects of conventional. By the time he realized alternatives were not working, the cancer was too advanced. Alternatives can also interfere with the effectiveness of conventional treatments. Home medicating is very dangerous when not supervised by a doctor. I am not advocating for or against 3bp but advising everyone to be very cautious about taking a lay person's word on any cancer treatments, especially when they have no personal stake in it except for gaining attention. DianaQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterDanielus

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 09:51 AM
Quote | ReplyFirst, I like your posts simply because they represent a different point of view. I do agree with some of your statements and disagree with others. I do agree with your following statements: "advising everyone to be very cautious about taking a lay person's word on any cancer treatments". Also, your heavy background in the field of how the human body is functioning is very much appreciated. I very much hope too see some posts here from your side that would demonstrate that and help us at the same time. For example, I am trying at this moment to understand as much as possible regarding the connection between hormones and cancer. Have you seen my post referring to the influence of thyroid hormones on cancer, i.e. hypothyroidism leading to extended survival and even CR? What is your view on that?

Jcancom has his way of communicating that may not resonate with all, but my understanding is that his posts were intended to create awareness regarding 3BP, in which we all strongly believe around here. Personally, I appreciate that a lot since he is informing others while many stay behind and do not contribute in anyway.

Regarding your question:"There has been paw paw mentioned as a cure for cancer. If it were so simple to cure cancer why are physicians and their loved ones dying from cancer?"
I think your expectations are too high from pawpaw. Many of such elements may be working for a few leading to complete response, for many would have positive effects and for others will not add anything. However, I guess you are not trying to compare the effectiveness of paw paw with that of 3BP since that would not be scientifically fare.

Why are physicians and their loved ones dying from cancer? Not because there is no cure, off course not. Be sure there is a cure out there. But the answer is simple: because they don’t know it. I am not claiming that we here know THE cure but I think (and have seen) that, unfortunately, we sometimes know more than many of those physicians. We are here discussing here a substance that has clear science behind, clear results on humans and is even ready to enter clinical trials. One day 3BP may pass the clinical trials and at that point it will be the solution of those physicians. In other words those physicians will know about 3BP probably 7 years from now, in case it will pass the clinical trials. Yes, I can tell you it is difficult and dangerous when trying such treatments regardless of whether is at home or under doctor supervision. Without having clinical trials behind, it is difficult. But doing nothing is accepting to become part of the statistics.

To be even more clear: taking into account all the evidence behind, in a different society, 3BP and Salinomycin would be part of mainstream medicine.

You may wonder, why at this point in time, 3BP is being used by some of the most well known (mainstream) doctors in the world to treat patients in University hospitals??? I think you should be angry on our society and not on some people trying to help others.

Note: I would not discuss and use in anyway Steve Jobs as example since nobody knows what his case was exactly, what he did and what not. Using such reference points is misleading.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kccoc on Thu Aug 13, 2015 09:59 AM
Quote | Reply“This blog has been taken over by a select few” – everyone is free to post and anyone is free to read or not to read, for or against any proposition raised.  Not one is taking over, just the few that are taking the trouble and time to post.

“As cancer patients and caregivers we want to believe only the positives” – that is only true for those who only wants to believe the positives.  There should be many others who just what to know what is possible, probably and perhaps even none-patentable!

“When people devote so much time on an issue but have no personal involvement one needs to question why before hanging onto their every word.” – it does not matter, as we are not teenagers mesmerised by pop stars or movie idols.  These ‘every word” were use by us as something to think about, key words for searches and topics we can discuss with our board certified medical professionals.

“very cautious about taking a lay person's word on any cancer treatments, especially when they have no personal stake in it except for gaining attention” – this is good advice and we should all keep calm and carry on.

“In all my years on Cancer Compass people like Jcancom are what I refer to as a very dangerous individuals to those seeking information.” – again keep calm and carry on (posting) should apply to all, we are not taking anyone’s words here as medical advice, must like reading an medical article in the newspapers.  Those reporters are not “dangerous” and no one is seeking medical advice from them.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:35 AM
Quote | ReplyI am very open to criticism and greatly welcome it. I have tried to be responsible in my posting and I will think carefully about your comments. Similar sentiments have not yet been posted to this thread and I find these comments refreshing.

However, the refusal of others to openly engage in a similar dialogue about 3-BP has been an ongoing mystery to me and I find it deeply disturbing. Many on this thread and elsewhere are also surprised at the extent to which the discussion seems to have been surpressed. The last resort of people who no longer have anything to say is to simply censor others.

It seems suspicious how aggressive the 3-BP censorship has become. For example, posters on this forum are freely allowed to counsel terminal cancer patients to give up all treatment and wait for the end. However, when I have made truly mild suggestions to such people as "You might want to consider 3-BP." these posts have been deleted. Many of the other forums that I have posted to have banned me for life for making similar comments. I have generally waited until these patients -- often with pancreatic or liver cancer-- are pleading for anything without any treatment option and are waiting for the end. At that point 3-BP does not seem unreasonable. 3-BP at a minimum offers non-zero odds. Many of these patients without treatment are confronting near zero odds. The apparent near curative response of the only stage IV pancreatic cancer patient treated with 3-BP at Dayspring certainly is encouraging.

This lack of engaging in rational adult discourse about the options available to end stage patients is highly troubling to me and it should be to all independently thinking people. People on this thread are highly informed and have decided that when their doctors tell them there is nothing left to do,  they understand this to only mean there is nothing conventional medicine can offer them. We now live in an era of information: patients can and are informing themselves. If their doctor has never heard of 3-BP, then one begins to wonders why not. There has only been 15 years of research.

Too many have hidden behind a devotion to the scientific method, while ignoring basic logic. As my link discussed, one fallacy of argumentation is to claim there is a nirvana where everything is perfect, though unattainable, without addressing the question at hand: namely, What should these terminal cancer patients do? Answer the question! I think 3-BP might not be a bad choice for such patients to consider. Once we agree, as adults, that terminal cancer patients do not have the utopian option, then we must consider real world options. Directly confronting reality is likely the reason that this thread has become overwhelmingly successful. It is the most posted to thread on this forum. We need to realize that there has been a failure of logic by adhering so rigidly to the scientific method.

It is well known in the history of science that organizations often become the least willing to accept change. It is surprising that even in science, truth becomes pushed to the back for other considerations. Generally change only emerges when those outside of the official structures become involved.

A published scientist to this thread has revealed that a DCA  articel that he published which found long term remissions in NHL was largely ignored by his colegaues because DCA is almost unpatentable. It is almost beyond comprehesion that money has become so central to the discussion. 3-BP also has patent problems. Is a possibly near universal cure for cancer really being suppressed because there is no money in it?

I applaud this forum and the CTCA for allowing the alternative view expressed on this thread. It is of note that this large medical organization, likely after considerable deliberations, sent one of their late stage bile duct patients to Dayspring Cancer Clinic in order to receive 3-BP treatment.

Allowing free exchange of information is in the best interests of cancer patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:38 AM

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On Aug 13, 2015 9:03 AM Dlynn1210 wrote:

I generally do not respond to blogs for other types of cancer than I experienced. I had tonsil cancer and given a 50/50 chance of survival. When I was 47 years old I lost my husband to lung cancer. I have been on Cancer Compass for 8 years and know that as cancer patients and caregivers for loved ones diagnosed with this horrible disease we try to educate ourselves about cancer and how to beat it. When there is even a ray of hope you fight but my grandmother used to gently remind us that no one gets out of this world alive. When my husband, my best friend, was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer I was livid that he was not offered more options for treatment. It was only years after he passed away that I could objectively look at the situation and realized how unfair I had been to him in his last days. A close friend had shared with me after Jack passed away how worried he was about leaving me - not about his own death but how I would handle his leaving me. The time worrying what to do next and fighting doctors who knew the inevitable was coming robbed me of my last few weeks with my husband. When I was diagnosed with cancer several years later, I gave it entirely over to God. If my time on Earth was complete I accepted that but as long as I was given an ounce of hope by my oncologist, I would fight. Thank heavens the Canced Treatment Centers of America always gave me that hope. I have now been cancer free for 7 years. Fight with everything you have when there is hope but also pray for and accept God's Will even though it is not always what we want. DianaThis is well put, Diane and thank you. Am I missing something though? How does it relate to 3BP, which is something that is generally used when we have run out of options. Are you saying we should not use it, and simply accept "God's will"? I may have misread your intent here, for which I apologise in advance.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:46 AM

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On Aug 13, 2015 3:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 9:03 AM Dlynn1210 wrote:

I generally do not respond to blogs for other types of cancer than I experienced. I had tonsil cancer and given a 50/50 chance of survival. When I was 47 years old I lost my husband to lung cancer. I have been on Cancer Compass for 8 years and know that as cancer patients and caregivers for loved ones diagnosed with this horrible disease we try to educate ourselves about cancer and how to beat it. When there is even a ray of hope you fight but my grandmother used to gently remind us that no one gets out of this world alive. When my husband, my best friend, was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer I was livid that he was not offered more options for treatment. It was only years after he passed away that I could objectively look at the situation and realized how unfair I had been to him in his last days. A close friend had shared with me after Jack passed away how worried he was about leaving me - not about his own death but how I would handle his leaving me. The time worrying what to do next and fighting doctors who knew the inevitable was coming robbed me of my last few weeks with my husband. When I was diagnosed with cancer several years later, I gave it entirely over to God. If my time on Earth was complete I accepted that but as long as I was given an ounce of hope by my oncologist, I would fight. Thank heavens the Canced Treatment Centers of America always gave me that hope. I have now been cancer free for 7 years. Fight with everything you have when there is hope but also pray for and accept God's Will even though it is not always what we want. DianaThis is well put, Diane and thank you. Am I missing something though? How does it relate to 3BP, which is something that is generally used when we have run out of options. Are you saying we should not use it, and simply accept "God's will"? I may have misread your intent here, for which I apologise in advance.
...and how do we know what "God's will" truly is if we have these options to try??  I will accept it as "God's will" when all my options are exhausted.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:32 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 3:46 PM kcervantes wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 3:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 9:03 AM Dlynn1210 wrote:

I generally do not respond to blogs for other types of cancer than I experienced. I had tonsil cancer and given a 50/50 chance of survival. When I was 47 years old I lost my husband to lung cancer. I have been on Cancer Compass for 8 years and know that as cancer patients and caregivers for loved ones diagnosed with this horrible disease we try to educate ourselves about cancer and how to beat it. When there is even a ray of hope you fight but my grandmother used to gently remind us that no one gets out of this world alive. When my husband, my best friend, was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer I was livid that he was not offered more options for treatment. It was only years after he passed away that I could objectively look at the situation and realized how unfair I had been to him in his last days. A close friend had shared with me after Jack passed away how worried he was about leaving me - not about his own death but how I would handle his leaving me. The time worrying what to do next and fighting doctors who knew the inevitable was coming robbed me of my last few weeks with my husband. When I was diagnosed with cancer several years later, I gave it entirely over to God. If my time on Earth was complete I accepted that but as long as I was given an ounce of hope by my oncologist, I would fight. Thank heavens the Canced Treatment Centers of America always gave me that hope. I have now been cancer free for 7 years. Fight with everything you have when there is hope but also pray for and accept God's Will even though it is not always what we want. DianaThis is well put, Diane and thank you. Am I missing something though? How does it relate to 3BP, which is something that is generally used when we have run out of options. Are you saying we should not use it, and simply accept "God's will"? I may have misread your intent here, for which I apologise in advance.
...and how do we know what "God's will" truly is if we have these options to try??  I will accept it as "God's will" when all my options are exhausted.
Yes, agreed K.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:47 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 1:59 PM kccoc wrote:

“This blog has been taken over by a select few” – everyone is free to post and anyone is free to read or not to read, for or against any proposition raised.  Not one is taking over, just the few that are taking the trouble and time to post.

“As cancer patients and caregivers we want to believe only the positives” – that is only true for those who only wants to believe the positives.  There should be many others who just what to know what is possible, probably and perhaps even none-patentable!

“When people devote so much time on an issue but have no personal involvement one needs to question why before hanging onto their every word.” – it does not matter, as we are not teenagers mesmerised by pop stars or movie idols.  These ‘every word” were use by us as something to think about, key words for searches and topics we can discuss with our board certified medical professionals.

“very cautious about taking a lay person's word on any cancer treatments, especially when they have no personal stake in it except for gaining attention” – this is good advice and we should all keep calm and carry on.

“In all my years on Cancer Compass people like Jcancom are what I refer to as a very dangerous individuals to those seeking information.” – again keep calm and carry on (posting) should apply to all, we are not taking anyone’s words here as medical advice, must like reading an medical article in the newspapers.  Those reporters are not “dangerous” and no one is seeking medical advice from them.
I was just about to write this myself (or something akin). Diane's points are typical of someone caught up in the hype of "evidence-based medicine."  This, particularly as it applies to cancer treatment is a travesty and the so-called "evidence" is thin at best, non-existent at worst. The way trials are set up is borderline insane and purely for the benefit of pharmaceutical companies. If evidence based western medicine was regarded as the best by medical professionals, why do I, in my small circle, know of two heart surgeons and an anaesthetist, who are attending Mexican clinics because, in the words of one of them, "Cancer care in North America is bull\*\*\*\*."?

As for calling JCanCom "dangerous"... How dangerous?  As dangerous as chemotherapy? More dangerous? Less? Perhaps as dangerous as the radiation that destroyed my husband's bone marrow?

The dangers lie in acceptance, ignorance, and trust in a system that clearly isn't working.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:49 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 4:32 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 3:46 PM kcervantes wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 3:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 9:03 AM Dlynn1210 wrote:

I generally do not respond to blogs for other types of cancer than I experienced. I had tonsil cancer and given a 50/50 chance of survival. When I was 47 years old I lost my husband to lung cancer. I have been on Cancer Compass for 8 years and know that as cancer patients and caregivers for loved ones diagnosed with this horrible disease we try to educate ourselves about cancer and how to beat it. When there is even a ray of hope you fight but my grandmother used to gently remind us that no one gets out of this world alive. When my husband, my best friend, was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer I was livid that he was not offered more options for treatment. It was only years after he passed away that I could objectively look at the situation and realized how unfair I had been to him in his last days. A close friend had shared with me after Jack passed away how worried he was about leaving me - not about his own death but how I would handle his leaving me. The time worrying what to do next and fighting doctors who knew the inevitable was coming robbed me of my last few weeks with my husband. When I was diagnosed with cancer several years later, I gave it entirely over to God. If my time on Earth was complete I accepted that but as long as I was given an ounce of hope by my oncologist, I would fight. Thank heavens the Canced Treatment Centers of America always gave me that hope. I have now been cancer free for 7 years. Fight with everything you have when there is hope but also pray for and accept God's Will even though it is not always what we want. DianaThis is well put, Diane and thank you. Am I missing something though? How does it relate to 3BP, which is something that is generally used when we have run out of options. Are you saying we should not use it, and simply accept "God's will"? I may have misread your intent here, for which I apologise in advance.
...and how do we know what "God's will" truly is if we have these options to try??  I will accept it as "God's will" when all my options are exhausted.
Yes, agreed K.
Ditto to all of the intelligent answers from Danielus, Jcancon, Moonlitnight, and Kcervantes.

I understand the concerns of the other poster also--and having had a father who was an m.d., I always went the conventional route during my earlier years.  However, later on in life--and much to my dismay, I encountered professionals who truly did not have the answer to my health issues--and sometimes caused more harm than good.

I began seeking other avenues--alternative ones--for answers.  Yes, one must be discriminatory in what alternative methods are used also--but that should also apply to conventional medicine.  Research, research, research everything--and then do it all over again.

And, now, having cancer, I have found limited help in the conventional arena.  When one of the top oncologists in my city has a very large bowl of candy in her waiting room, that speaks volumes to me.  Something is very rotten in Denmark, so to speak.  And one is usually not allowed to question--albeit politely--what their methods of treatment will be used.  Done deal--or  no longer be a patient.

I wholeheartedly believe that it is God's will that we use the intelligence He gave us to view the life that He gave us as a precious gift.  And that we should do everything we can to appreciate this gift by striving to regain health and have a better quality of living.  He is not a God of death--but He is our Creator.  And I will never believe that He wants us to die--but that eventuality is a result of sickness, old age, etc.  that cannot be helped or cured.

May everyone on this thread continue to strive to help one another--whether through research--or encouragement and loving support.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:50 PM
Quote | ReplyThe post from the professor was on the fourth page of the below url.

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,85624

Several on this thread do have first hand experience with 3-BP treatment. There are now a growing number of cancer clinics and online reports of 3-BP usage. The FDA has deignated, though not approved, 3-BP in pancreatic and liver and bile duct cancer. It appear that pharmaceutical companies consier durgs such as DCA,MG, and 3-BP - 3-BrOP to be undevelopable due to patent issues. Many (most) analogs of pyruvic acid have anti-cancer effects, though they are so chemically simple that they might never be brought to market. Patients could try 3-BP and would likely know if it were effective for them by only spending hundreds of dollars. Considering the extreme expense of many traditional cancer treatments 3-BP appears to offer very good value.  Prescience Labs has reformulated 3-BP which they have stated they intend to take into clinical trials. The researchers behind 3-BP are not quacks. They are extremely impressive scientists.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Aug 13, 2015 01:02 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 4:47 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 1:59 PM kccoc wrote:

“This blog has been taken over by a select few” – everyone is free to post and anyone is free to read or not to read, for or against any proposition raised.  Not one is taking over, just the few that are taking the trouble and time to post.

“As cancer patients and caregivers we want to believe only the positives” – that is only true for those who only wants to believe the positives.  There should be many others who just what to know what is possible, probably and perhaps even none-patentable!

“When people devote so much time on an issue but have no personal involvement one needs to question why before hanging onto their every word.” – it does not matter, as we are not teenagers mesmerised by pop stars or movie idols.  These ‘every word” were use by us as something to think about, key words for searches and topics we can discuss with our board certified medical professionals.

“very cautious about taking a lay person's word on any cancer treatments, especially when they have no personal stake in it except for gaining attention” – this is good advice and we should all keep calm and carry on.

“In all my years on Cancer Compass people like Jcancom are what I refer to as a very dangerous individuals to those seeking information.” – again keep calm and carry on (posting) should apply to all, we are not taking anyone’s words here as medical advice, must like reading an medical article in the newspapers.  Those reporters are not “dangerous” and no one is seeking medical advice from them.
I was just about to write this myself (or something akin). Diane's points are typical of someone caught up in the hype of "evidence-based medicine."  This, particularly as it applies to cancer treatment is a travesty and the so-called "evidence" is thin at best, non-existent at worst. The way trials are set up is borderline insane and purely for the benefit of pharmaceutical companies. If evidence based western medicine was regarded as the best by medical professionals, why do I, in my small circle, know of two heart surgeons and an anaesthetist, who are attending Mexican clinics because, in the words of one of them, "Cancer care in North America is bull\*\*\*\*."?

As for calling JCanCom "dangerous"... How dangerous?  As dangerous as chemotherapy? More dangerous? Less? Perhaps as dangerous as the radiation that destroyed my husband's bone marrow?

The dangers lie in acceptance, ignorance, and trust in a system that clearly isn't working.
Excellent reply, A.

All of us have horror stories regarding mainstream treatment methods used to "help" us.  In many ways, I myself am in a worse condition because of  some of them--and I know many others also have suffered--as your husband with the radiation treatment.

Perhaps some are helped--but the overall percentage is low. Today "immunology" is the key word in cancer research--and they are also talking about metabolism.  But so late in the game--having suppressed this for many years.  And what is sickening is the fact that people are making money in the stock market as these "new drugs" are coming out--the pharmaceutical industry has helped in some ways--and is dishonorable in others.    The fact that oncologists have been making money on chemotherapy  drugs for years is unconscionable--and the costs of drugs is skyrocketing.  Where is the true compassion and interest in saving lives then?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 01:06 PM
Quote | ReplyIt was reported earlier on this thread (it now hard to find anything on this thread! The price of success!) that a cancer doctor (pancreatic?) made over 1 million dollars per year by simply prescribing chemotherapy drugs that are often not effective. This should certainly raise questions.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 01:43 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 4:50 PM Jcancom wrote:

The post from the professor was on the fourth page of the below url.

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,85624 ,3.htm"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,85624  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,85624

Several on this thread do have first hand experience with 3-BP treatment. There are now a growing number of cancer clinics and online reports of 3-BP usage. The FDA has deignated, though not approved, 3-BP in pancreatic and liver and bile duct cancer. It appear that pharmaceutical companies consier durgs such as DCA,MG, and 3-BP - 3-BrOP to be undevelopable due to patent issues. Many (most) analogs of pyruvic acid have anti-cancer effects, though they are so chemically simple that they might never be brought to market. Patients could try 3-BP and would likely know if it were effective for them by only spending hundreds of dollars. Considering the extreme expense of many traditional cancer treatments 3-BP appears to offer very good value.  Prescience Labs has reformulated 3-BP which they have stated they intend to take into clinical trials. The researchers behind 3-BP are not quacks. They are extremely impressive scientists.
What I thought interesting in that post was this statement:

The money comes from the delivery vehicle. So if 3bp was so good, they could still make money figuring out how to deliver it efficiently.

Isn't that what JH has been doing?

And regarding the "snake oil" comment: Rather the snake oil that you don't know than the snake oil that you do.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 01:48 PM
Quote | ReplyRigid and inflexible thinking is especially dangerous to those coping with cancer. Cancer is relentessly attempting to evade all treatments. It is this malevolent life form.

Patients also need to be this flexible and adaptive. Trying various treatments and constantly changing and adapting strategy until weaknesses are found is a strategy that could lead to success in cancer treatment.

If 3-BP is only has a 10%, then you wasted a day. Now you can move on to the next 9 10% treatments that will eventually help you. Such a strategy would help you much more than waiting 10 to 15 years while clinical trials consider 3-BP only has a monotherapy.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 02:05 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, I was just not sure where to go with the snake oil comment. Snake oil salesmen have this certain oleaginous quality about them that immediately raises red flags: they are too slick.

So, many of those associated with 3-BP ARE the scientific establishment. In the NIH video introduction to the Hopkins researchers, the presenter started laughing when he mentioned the accomplishments of one of the 3-BP researchers. His list of scientific publications filled a phone book! Save the planet, save our trees! Please everyone let's put all this onto a DVD! The presenter was simply startled. It would not be entirely surprising if these scientists might end up one day going to a certain Nordic country in late fall.

The peole who drone on about how more research is needed, might not fully appreciate that decades and decades of background research has been accumulating on the precise molecular aspects of 3-BP. It should not be entirely surprising that in the infinite infinity of possible chemicals, the first chemical studied by a Hopkins researcher was 3-BP.

This is one of the more puzzling aspects of the 3-BP story: the researchers involved really are so highly accomplished and they really appear to be almost totally unmotivated by the financial opportunities. MD Anderson's version of 3-BrOP might command an extraordinary price. It has been very difficult for the criticisms to hold. In much of the commentary questions have been raised about the behavior of others who have tried to benefit from 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 03:51 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 5:48 PM Jcancom wrote:

Rigid and inflexible thinking is especially dangerous to those coping with cancer. Cancer is relentessly attempting to evade all treatments. It is this malevolent life form.

Patients also need to be this flexible and adaptive. Trying various treatments and constantly changing and adapting strategy until weaknesses are found is a strategy that could lead to success in cancer treatment.

If 3-BP is only has a 10%, then you wasted a day. Now you can move on to the next 9 10% treatments that will eventually help you. Such a strategy would help you much more than waiting 10 to 15 years while clinical trials consider 3-BP only has a monotherapy.
A month for us... it doesn't always work in a day, I thought...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Aug 13, 2015 04:00 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 7:51 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 5:48 PM Jcancom wrote:

Rigid and inflexible thinking is especially dangerous to those coping with cancer. Cancer is relentessly attempting to evade all treatments. It is this malevolent life form.

Patients also need to be this flexible and adaptive. Trying various treatments and constantly changing and adapting strategy until weaknesses are found is a strategy that could lead to success in cancer treatment.

If 3-BP is only has a 10%, then you wasted a day. Now you can move on to the next 9 10% treatments that will eventually help you. Such a strategy would help you much more than waiting 10 to 15 years while clinical trials consider 3-BP only has a monotherapy.
A month for us... it doesn't always work in a day, I thought...
I continue to have sincere hopes and thoughts for you, K.,and others on this forum who are trying so very diligently to help their loved ones.

You are all an inspiration--and makes my heart glad to have come to know you through this forum.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 04:39 PM
Quote | ReplyWith the 10 10% approaches I was thinking of a fairly manic type patient who could zip through a whole list of treatments searching for something with immediate benefit.The  unwillingness to try different treatments (some of which have already largely been proven safe) is a great danger for many cancer patients.

The liver and melanoma patients both had unassisted immediate responses. As has been noted previously on this thread converting an initially non-responding patient to 3-BP has been claimed to be possible (It would be very helpful if an article were published on this point).

It might not be a bad strategy for a patient to quickly try a list of potential treatments in order to find one that would be truly helpful. This might be a tremendous advantage of some of the cancer clinics. It would of course be so much better if lab test or genetic tests could point you to the correct treatment instead of trial and error.

If a clinical trial were designed using such an adaptive treatment design, one could foresee moving from the current 90 plus % failure rate to 90 plus % success rate.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Thu Aug 13, 2015 04:43 PM
Quote | ReplyCancer drug 49 times more potent than Cisplatin http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-cancer-drug-potent-cis
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:08 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 8:43 PM dumbcritic wrote:

Cancer drug 49 times more potent than Cisplatin http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-cancer-drug-potent-cis platin.html"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-cancer-drug-potent-cis  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-cancer-drug-potent-cis
nice one
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:32 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, this is very impressive. And it would seem to confirm many of the observations that we have made on this thread over the last year. It is truly amazing how much confirming evidence keeps popping up for the mechanism of action that 3-BP is involved with. 3-BrOP, DCA, ...

I feel bad for those who have been trying to offer us useful criticisms: There is just so much good news happening almost all the time with 3-BP that it is hard to get the ball rolling down the hill before there is another huge upward development.

Perhaps now a drug has been found that one would not be able to buy online for a few dollars, so a path to the market could be found with a truly massive payday for the company inovolved. I wonder whether 3-BrOP could be the first million dollar cancer drug. There could be an enormous payout as long as no one asked to many difficult questions such as: "Isn't this just 3-BP?"
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:33 PM

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On Aug 13, 2015 9:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, this is very impressive. And it would seem to confirm many of the observations that we have made on this thread over the last year. It is truly amazing how much confirming evidence keeps popping up for the mechanism of action that 3-BP is involved with. 3-BrOP, DCA, ...

I feel bad for those who have been trying to offer us useful criticisms: There is just so much good news happening almost all the time with 3-BP that it is hard to get the ball rolling down the hill before there is another huge upward development.

Perhaps now a drug has been found that one would not be able to buy online for a few dollars, so a path to the market could be found with a truly massive payday for the company inovolved. I wonder whether 3-BrOP could be the first million dollar cancer drug. There could be an enormous payout as long as no one asked to many difficult questions such as: "Isn't this just 3-BP?"

)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 05:38 PM
Quote | ReplyDoes anyone know what drug they are referring to in below url?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 06:06 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 13, 2015 9:38 PM Jcancom wrote:

Does anyone know what drug they are referring to in below url?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht m"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht
This is very valauble.... it may be a very good combination with 3BP or Salinomycin.

The drug they used was Plerixafor a CXCR4 antagonist.

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/11/0

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/immune-blocking-drug-coul

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plerixafor
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 06:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 13, 2015 10:06 PM Danielus wrote:

On Aug 13, 2015 9:38 PM Jcancom wrote:

Does anyone know what drug they are referring to in below url?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht "" target="\_blank" 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rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150812200529.ht
This is very valauble.... it may be a very good combination with 3BP or Salinomycin.

The drug they used was Plerixafor a CXCR4 antagonist.

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/11/0 008-5472.CAN-14-3587"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/11/0  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/11/0

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/immune-blocking-drug-coul d-stop-cancer-growing-back-1.489089"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/immune-blocking-drug-coul  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/immune-blocking-drug-coul

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plerixafor "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plerixafor " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plerixafor
Now I realize that on the same line of reazoning, a drug that may be used next to Plerixafor is Thalidomide to inhibit the capacity of the body to regrow new blood vessels once your main treatment (3BP, chemotheraphy, Salinomycin, etc.) are found to be effective.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 09:38 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you very much everyone for your support today!

I want to be a responsible poster to this thread and help out those who are struggling with a very difficult illness. I welcome criticism of my behavior as I can give it careful consideration and hopefully be a better person because of it.

In fact, with all the new clinics opening up it becomes so much easier to adopt a more passive stance regarding 3-BP treatment. For example, the Toronto clinic has a licensed MD and offers single IV 3-BP treatments for about $400. That sounds like an amazing deal! All the members of the thread can now fully comply with the treatments being given by their doctor. We must follow doctor's orders, mustn't we? So, we are all agreed then.

Unanimous votes make me worry, so I'll cast my vote against Jcancom.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Aug 13, 2015 09:46 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 1:38 AM Jcancom wrote:

Thank you very much everyone for your support today!

I want to be a responsible poster to this thread and help out those who are struggling with a very difficult illness. I welcome criticism of my behavior as I can give it careful consideration and hopefully be a better person because of it.

In fact, with all the new clinics opening up it becomes so much easier to adopt a more passive stance regarding 3-BP treatment. For example, the Toronto clinic has a licensed MD and offers single IV 3-BP treatments for about $400. That sounds like an amazing deal! All the members of the thread can now fully comply with the treatments being given by their doctor. We must follow doctor's orders, mustn't we? So, we are all agreed then.

Unanimous votes make me worry, so I'll cast my vote against Jcancom.
J, your passion to help others is sometimes misinterpreted - usually by the folks who don't really want help, preferring to believe in "the system."

I'll cast my vote for you - for your passion, magnanimity, philanthropy and generosity of spirit.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:59 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 1:46 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 1:38 AM Jcancom wrote:

Thank you very much everyone for your support today!

I want to be a responsible poster to this thread and help out those who are struggling with a very difficult illness. I welcome criticism of my behavior as I can give it careful consideration and hopefully be a better person because of it.

In fact, with all the new clinics opening up it becomes so much easier to adopt a more passive stance regarding 3-BP treatment. For example, the Toronto clinic has a licensed MD and offers single IV 3-BP treatments for about $400. That sounds like an amazing deal! All the members of the thread can now fully comply with the treatments being given by their doctor. We must follow doctor's orders, mustn't we? So, we are all agreed then.

Unanimous votes make me worry, so I'll cast my vote against Jcancom.
J, your passion to help others is sometimes misinterpreted - usually by the folks who don't really want help, preferring to believe in "the system."

I'll cast my vote for you - for your passion, magnanimity, philanthropy and generosity of spirit.
Jcancon,

Impossible to word it any better than Moonlitnight just did!

Heartfelt thanks for your constancy in helping others.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:51 PM
Quote | ReplyThank you again everyone for your votes of confidence!

It sure is tough, though, trying to be a mesmerizing, charismatic leader when all of my devoted followers who live for my next syllable are so ... how does one say this ... articulate.

Wow! We are living in this golden age of science, it is amazing. Science Daily News is reporting another CXCR1 story. This one is using CRISPR/CAS9 to genetically modify T-Cells. They talk about genetically editing CXCR1 and PD-1.

This really is like shooting fish in a barrel. If they now have the ability to essentially create any genotype of T-Cell at will, I really wonder how much longer the word cancer will exist.  They are developing a technology that would allow one to create extremely powerful biotechnology. With a platform that is this reproducible, a full pipeline of products could be cranked out.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 04:45 AM
Quote | ReplyI think it's possible my lengthy reply was in danger of breaking the internet, so here's part one:

Well, just when the thread was starting to slow down...

Like others, I'm grateful to Diana for bringing a note of scepticism to this thread (it's not a blog, Diana:) And I'm also grateful to J for responding so positively to her criticism.

There's no sense in which this thread is being taken over by a few individuals. I joined it quite recently and don't feel intimidated at all.

J has a tendency for over exuberance but, on a forum which is sadly too often characterised by desperation, I welcome such positivity, and can filter it through my own lens of what I hope is healthy scepticism.

Where Diana has a point is that we're still talking about very small numbers of patients who've even been  successfully treated  with 3BP (that we know of), so we have little objective evidence that it works, with humans (not mice), across a wide variety of cancers - all we have is anecdotes. The story of 3BP is happening in the shadows and what makes it frustrating (and tantalising) is that it has always been shrouded in mystery. Even now, its discoverer, Young Hee Ko, has gone to ground. A number of us have written to her, but received no reply. Potentially, she could provide some stats, but chooses not to make any public statements. So, I wrote to Prescience, and they chose not to reply. Others, like Prof Pedersen, even James Watson, have made very positive noises about 3 BP, but, as the saying goes 'anyone without data is just a bloke with an opinion'....

I interviewed the leading researcher at Europe's biggest oncology centre. His brother-in-law has been given months to live with a brain tumour. He admits that his view on alternative treatments has changed since he and his brother-in-law have been searching for something, ANYTHING, which might give them some hope. When I mentioned 3BP, he didn't dismiss it - just asked 'where's the evidence that it works?'. We then had an interesting discussion where he agreed that with off-patent off-label drugs there is a Catch-22 surrounding clinical trials and hard evidence. But he told me that the picture is changing - people are willing to look at evidence other than 5 yrs after a phase 3 trial involving thousands of patients.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 04:47 AM
Quote | ReplyPart 2 (of two):

So, I visitied the German clinic there, in search of something other than anecdote. I met people whose cancer had been stopped, and even reversed, by 3 BP. I spoke to doctors who were cautiously optimistic about its effect. But they were quick to admit that they've only been using it for a few months - they donl't know if there will be longer term side-effects, or if patients will become refractory. Many chemo drugs work for the first few months. So, we need to be sceptical. They also told me that of the 20 patients currently being treated, 'most' are having a positive response. Some have died, but they were at end-stage. But their data needs to be connected to Daysprings, and Toronto...

It may be that the clinic in Toronto will offer a single treatment, but I don't know that others do. So, there will always be a concern from cynics that gullible people will be paying tens of thousands of (insert favourite currency here) for a treatment with scant evidence in humans.

I've also been researching Low-Dose Naltrexone as another off-patent, partially approved drug. Here in the UK there is a partliamentary group looking at making it more widely known so that it can be approved in low-dose form. The activist group, LDNNow  is working with other LDN groups to try to gether data. NOT double-blind, placebo, phase three trials - just numbers of people who have been helped.

I would urge the group of people on this thread to put their combined intelligences together to see how something similar could be done for 3BP. Individuals and clinics will come out of the shadows if they know that there's strong evidence that it works. I don't believe there's a conspiracy blocking 3BP. My researcher contact wants to believe there's good evidence, because it might help his brother-in-law. Equally, I spoke to the German clinic's director who said he wants to have to close the clinic down because 3BP is being used in every hospital in the country.

How can we use technology to gather data from Daysprings, Toronto, Bruggen and others to amass a powerful argument that 3BP should be invested in by cancer research groups, or a philanthopist. Because there's one such philanthopist in Europe willing to back 3BP once he has the data. And there will be more.

We have to find a solution to the data issue, if this is to be anything more than the latest 'miracle cure' extolled by internet enthusiasts (no offence meant to any friends on here!)

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:19 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 8:47 AM Caddy wrote:

Part 2 (of two):

So, I visitied the German clinic there, in search of something other than anecdote. I met people whose cancer had been stopped, and even reversed, by 3 BP. I spoke to doctors who were cautiously optimistic about its effect. But they were quick to admit that they've only been using it for a few months - they donl't know if there will be longer term side-effects, or if patients will become refractory. Many chemo drugs work for the first few months. So, we need to be sceptical. They also told me that of the 20 patients currently being treated, 'most' are having a positive response. Some have died, but they were at end-stage. But their data needs to be connected to Daysprings, and Toronto...

It may be that the clinic in Toronto will offer a single treatment, but I don't know that others do. So, there will always be a concern from cynics that gullible people will be paying tens of thousands of (insert favourite currency here) for a treatment with scant evidence in humans.

I've also been researching Low-Dose Naltrexone as another off-patent, partially approved drug. Here in the UK there is a partliamentary group looking at making it more widely known so that it can be approved in low-dose form. The activist group, LDNNow  is working with other LDN groups to try to gether data. NOT double-blind, placebo, phase three trials - just numbers of people who have been helped.

I would urge the group of people on this thread to put their combined intelligences together to see how something similar could be done for 3BP. Individuals and clinics will come out of the shadows if they know that there's strong evidence that it works. I don't believe there's a conspiracy blocking 3BP. My researcher contact wants to believe there's good evidence, because it might help his brother-in-law. Equally, I spoke to the German clinic's director who said he wants to have to close the clinic down because 3BP is being used in every hospital in the country.

How can we use technology to gather data from Daysprings, Toronto, Bruggen and others to amass a powerful argument that 3BP should be invested in by cancer research groups, or a philanthopist. Because there's one such philanthopist in Europe willing to back 3BP once he has the data. And there will be more.

We have to find a solution to the data issue, if this is to be anything more than the latest 'miracle cure' extolled by internet enthusiasts (no offence meant to any friends on here!)

Caddy: Thank you for putting your thoughts and experiences so eloquently. It is disapppointing to hear of end-stage deaths while on 3BP as we tend to hold onto the melanoma patient and Ivar stories with much hope. Yes, we need some connection here between the clinics...

3BP may not be perfect but, unless you are a leukaemia, lymphoma or testicular cancer patient, it offers the most hope.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:31 AM
Quote | ReplyEr, OK. Does anyone know the name of the rhetorical technique where you say "I'm not like these other people" and then proceed to just massively up the ante?

It is almost like a party every day around here. I was going to call for an official party day on the thread yesterday. But today? Today is THE ULTIMATE THREAD PARTY DAY!!!

This new information has moved the Compass points!

Readers of this thread will be astonished by these new claims. This could be the true breakthrough moment.

'most' of a group of 20 end stage cancer patients are responding to 3-BP?  {The question of what co-treatments were used is of importance here. Such high response might not occur with straight 3-BP.}

3-BP is being used in every hospital in Germany?

Now the question is really only whether 3-BP induces long term responses?

We need to try and verify these comments. Otherwise, they will be claimed to simply be heresay. It is possible that we are still at a stage where "officially" 3-BP is restricted, though in practice it is widely used as suggested above.

This thread has a global reach, anyone in Germany can confirm that every (many) hospitals will treat with 3-BP?

German medical law is more relaxed than elsewhere, and allows doctors to act in the best interests of their patients beyond the latitude given elsewhere. So, perhaps we will receive official confirmation from medical sources.

The wehaveacure site went through the full list of legal restrictions on the reporting of patient results at 3-BP clinics. With the above claims it seems quite possible that the US clinics have wanted to release more comprehensive patient reports, though were legally restricted from doing so.

In terms of the greed argument against 3-BP, it is not only the Toronto clinic that offers single injection pricing, so too do clinics in Germany (though these might be the unofficial ones).

There is absolutely no reason to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment that will be ineffective. I have encountered this arugment several times and it is very weak argumentation. It assumes that 3-BP is just another cancer treatment that is only effective after an extended treatment period.

This is not true.

3-BP's anti-cancer effects can occur within minutes of treatment. In fact, 3-BP is fairly unstable so after about an hour it is no longer active. Shutting down the energy supply to cancer cells would be expected to have nearly immediate effects. Cancer cells cannot live without energy for even a short period of time.

A $4.15 LDH test will give patients verification of treatment effects. Patients might still pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment, though this would then be for something that had been shown to be working.

Does anyone know whether the official German clinic offers single day treatments?

I still think the "Cancer Controlled or Money Refunded" guarantee would be a truly brilliant marketing idea for 3-BP. After a first response with 3-BP, 3-BP will likely continue to work through the initial treatment round. A patient could try a first treatment and if it were successful, then the clinic could provide assurance that the response would at least continue to some extent for some period of time. 3-BP if it were effective at the start would probably continue being effective for some time. No other cancer treatment has ever been offered on such a basis.

Does anyone know how an anecdote differs from a group of treated patients? I am just wondering whether people saying "Well that is just an anecdotal group of 20 end stage cancer patients most of whom had a positive response" would be on the logical high ground.

This new information goes far far beyond my expectations. I thought that at the least 3-BP would offer some partial benefit for perhaps a modest period of time. The above comments suggest that a clinical trial of even short duration with truly end-stage patients would unequivocably prove that 3-BP could help such patients.

If there were philanthropic money out there, then that would seem to be a very reasonable and cost effective approach to answering this question. There is no law requiring clinical trials to last for years and years only to report inconclusive results. All the arguing back in forth about 3-BP could be answered in weeks with a clinical trial of truly end stage cancer patients.

This is really great news!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:41 AM
Quote | ReplyJ, the point was different: When 3-BP will be used in every hospital in Germany, they will stop with the clinic. This is what they said. But today that is not the case. There are a few hospitals only treating with 3BP, and that underwater.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:55 AM
Quote | ReplyJcancom,

It's not a rhetorical technique. You've taken only the positives out of my experience, and made a significantly different extrapolation! I really admire your optimism, but we have to exercise caution.

I also said that some people had died while being on 3BP. What does 'most' mean? How long do we judge a positive response? At what point does the treatment become 'remission' or even cure? How can a verbal statement be verified? THAT'S what I mean by anecdote!!

I was categorically NOT making a claim of any sort.

You're also incorrect in saying Germany has more relaxed laws than other countries. Indeed, one of the reasons why German clinics may be reluctant to share data is for the same reasons that others are reluctant: because you're only one bad newspaper story away from being closed down. 3 BP is NOT being used in every hospital in Germany - that was the stated desire of the clinic director. But I'd like to see world peace too - it doesn't mean to say it's happened. It's a tiny handful of clinics in Germany that are using 3BP, and almost all of them will not publicly admit to it, for fear of being closed down. Look what happened to First Immune and the GcMAF debacle.

The question isn't 'only' whether 3 BP induces long-term responses. Even in the anecdotal case I mentioned - how long have positive responses lasted? What about side effects (there are some)? How many patients died? What was the average reduction in tumour burden? How does that compare with chemo alternatives? Which combinations were more effective than others? And many, many, more.....

Currently, these clinics don't WANT a brilliant marketing idea - they're operating under the radar, and they will have to do so until there's an accumulation of evidence that suggests that they're saving lives, not giving false hope.

Please re-read my message - I was saying that we (the people on this thread) could be of more use to these clinics by trying to aggregate case studies and data, than simply looking for any kind of proof that 3BP is the cure for cancer, and coming up with marketing strategies for them.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:40 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 2:31 PM Jcancom wrote:

Er, OK. Does anyone know the name of the rhetorical technique where you say "I'm not like these other people" and then proceed to just massively up the ante?

It is almost like a party every day around here. I was going to call for an official party day on the thread yesterday. But today? Today is THE ULTIMATE THREAD PARTY DAY!!!

This new information has moved the Compass points!

Readers of this thread will be astonished by these new claims. This could be the true breakthrough moment.

'most' of a group of 20 end stage cancer patients are responding to 3-BP?  {The question of what co-treatments were used is of importance here. Such high response might not occur with straight 3-BP.}

3-BP is being used in every hospital in Germany?

Now the question is really only whether 3-BP induces long term responses?

We need to try and verify these comments. Otherwise, they will be claimed to simply be heresay. It is possible that we are still at a stage where "officially" 3-BP is restricted, though in practice it is widely used as suggested above.

This thread has a global reach, anyone in Germany can confirm that every (many) hospitals will treat with 3-BP?

German medical law is more relaxed than elsewhere, and allows doctors to act in the best interests of their patients beyond the latitude given elsewhere. So, perhaps we will receive official confirmation from medical sources.

The wehaveacure site went through the full list of legal restrictions on the reporting of patient results at 3-BP clinics. With the above claims it seems quite possible that the US clinics have wanted to release more comprehensive patient reports, though were legally restricted from doing so.

In terms of the greed argument against 3-BP, it is not only the Toronto clinic that offers single injection pricing, so too do clinics in Germany (though these might be the unofficial ones).

There is absolutely no reason to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment that will be ineffective. I have encountered this arugment several times and it is very weak argumentation. It assumes that 3-BP is just another cancer treatment that is only effective after an extended treatment period.

This is not true.

3-BP's anti-cancer effects can occur within minutes of treatment. In fact, 3-BP is fairly unstable so after about an hour it is no longer active. Shutting down the energy supply to cancer cells would be expected to have nearly immediate effects. Cancer cells cannot live without energy for even a short period of time.

A $4.15 LDH test will give patients verification of treatment effects. Patients might still pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment, though this would then be for something that had been shown to be working.

Does anyone know whether the official German clinic offers single day treatments?

I still think the "Cancer Controlled or Money Refunded" guarantee would be a truly brilliant marketing idea for 3-BP. After a first response with 3-BP, 3-BP will likely continue to work through the initial treatment round. A patient could try a first treatment and if it were successful, then the clinic could provide assurance that the response would at least continue to some extent for some period of time. 3-BP if it were effective at the start would probably continue being effective for some time. No other cancer treatment has ever been offered on such a basis.

Does anyone know how an anecdote differs from a group of treated patients? I am just wondering whether people saying "Well that is just an anecdotal group of 20 end stage cancer patients most of whom had a positive response" would be on the logical high ground.

This new information goes far far beyond my expectations. I thought that at the least 3-BP would offer some partial benefit for perhaps a modest period of time. The above comments suggest that a clinical trial of even short duration with truly end-stage patients would unequivocably prove that 3-BP could help such patients.

If there were philanthropic money out there, then that would seem to be a very reasonable and cost effective approach to answering this question. There is no law requiring clinical trials to last for years and years only to report inconclusive results. All the arguing back in forth about 3-BP could be answered in weeks with a clinical trial of truly end stage cancer patients.

This is really great news!
J,

I am questioning something here--and I hope you will help me to understand more fully about it.  You had mentioned that the clinic in Toronto is providing single-treatment for 3-BP  at approximately $400.00 per i.v.  and that, in your opinion, would thusly provide cancer patients a better opportunity to experience 3-BP.  However,  should i.v.'s be required every day--5-days a week--then the costs certainly would escalate.

Now I do not know if that time period of daily 3-BP i.v.'s is the usual one--either at Dayspring or the German clinic.  If it is, then a month's treatment of 3-BP i.v.'s alone at the Toronto clinic would cost a patient $8,000.00.  Just not sure about what and how they are offering treatment--did they happen to provide that information for you?

To my knowledge, other accompanying treatments are also a good idea to support and benefit the immune system while having 3-BP i.v's.  Dayspring mentions some--EWOT, Vit. C i.v.'s, dietary support--and no doubt quite a few other things to both support and detox the body.  I am not familiar with exactly what the German clinic is suggesting for patients--but most German clinics do offer quite a variety of treatments for cancer patients--generally tailored to their needs.  The body is very complex--no one single thing can be the entire answer to good health and recovery. 3-BP may be the "nuclear explosion"--as mentioned long ago on this thread--but then the other treatments are necessary, too--as well as life-style changes.

In any event, it seems that those most knowledgeable about 3-BP are reluctant to share because of possible legal problems--especially here in the U.S.  In the book "Tripping Over The Truth"--by Travis Christofferson--much is explained about the devastation experienced by Dr.'s Ko and Pedersen.  Their being betrayed by so-called colleagues and potential investors when attempting to help those in need was heartbreaking.  It is no wonder that Dr. Ko is very wary of opening up and speaking freely.  And there still may be an ongoing legal case with JH--not sure about that.

So all of those seeking the truth  surrounding 3-BP are dependent upon ones with experience--albeit clinics, individuals, etc.--those who will share their health histories and responses with others.  With the purpose indeed that more and better knowledge will be gathered so that, hopefully, lives will be saved--and that individuals will no  longer be caught in the quagmire of what is only offered to them today through conventional treatments.

To state that I am very grateful to have found this thread is quite an understatement.  It is a breath of fresh air and hope.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:46 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 3:40 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 2:31 PM Jcancom wrote:

Er, OK. Does anyone know the name of the rhetorical technique where you say "I'm not like these other people" and then proceed to just massively up the ante?

It is almost like a party every day around here. I was going to call for an official party day on the thread yesterday. But today? Today is THE ULTIMATE THREAD PARTY DAY!!!

This new information has moved the Compass points!

Readers of this thread will be astonished by these new claims. This could be the true breakthrough moment.

'most' of a group of 20 end stage cancer patients are responding to 3-BP?  {The question of what co-treatments were used is of importance here. Such high response might not occur with straight 3-BP.}

3-BP is being used in every hospital in Germany?

Now the question is really only whether 3-BP induces long term responses?

We need to try and verify these comments. Otherwise, they will be claimed to simply be heresay. It is possible that we are still at a stage where "officially" 3-BP is restricted, though in practice it is widely used as suggested above.

This thread has a global reach, anyone in Germany can confirm that every (many) hospitals will treat with 3-BP?

German medical law is more relaxed than elsewhere, and allows doctors to act in the best interests of their patients beyond the latitude given elsewhere. So, perhaps we will receive official confirmation from medical sources.

The wehaveacure site went through the full list of legal restrictions on the reporting of patient results at 3-BP clinics. With the above claims it seems quite possible that the US clinics have wanted to release more comprehensive patient reports, though were legally restricted from doing so.

In terms of the greed argument against 3-BP, it is not only the Toronto clinic that offers single injection pricing, so too do clinics in Germany (though these might be the unofficial ones).

There is absolutely no reason to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment that will be ineffective. I have encountered this arugment several times and it is very weak argumentation. It assumes that 3-BP is just another cancer treatment that is only effective after an extended treatment period.

This is not true.

3-BP's anti-cancer effects can occur within minutes of treatment. In fact, 3-BP is fairly unstable so after about an hour it is no longer active. Shutting down the energy supply to cancer cells would be expected to have nearly immediate effects. Cancer cells cannot live without energy for even a short period of time.

A $4.15 LDH test will give patients verification of treatment effects. Patients might still pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 3-BP treatment, though this would then be for something that had been shown to be working.

Does anyone know whether the official German clinic offers single day treatments?

I still think the "Cancer Controlled or Money Refunded" guarantee would be a truly brilliant marketing idea for 3-BP. After a first response with 3-BP, 3-BP will likely continue to work through the initial treatment round. A patient could try a first treatment and if it were successful, then the clinic could provide assurance that the response would at least continue to some extent for some period of time. 3-BP if it were effective at the start would probably continue being effective for some time. No other cancer treatment has ever been offered on such a basis.

Does anyone know how an anecdote differs from a group of treated patients? I am just wondering whether people saying "Well that is just an anecdotal group of 20 end stage cancer patients most of whom had a positive response" would be on the logical high ground.

This new information goes far far beyond my expectations. I thought that at the least 3-BP would offer some partial benefit for perhaps a modest period of time. The above comments suggest that a clinical trial of even short duration with truly end-stage patients would unequivocably prove that 3-BP could help such patients.

If there were philanthropic money out there, then that would seem to be a very reasonable and cost effective approach to answering this question. There is no law requiring clinical trials to last for years and years only to report inconclusive results. All the arguing back in forth about 3-BP could be answered in weeks with a clinical trial of truly end stage cancer patients.

This is really great news!
J,

I am questioning something here--and I hope you will help me to understand more fully about it.  You had mentioned that the clinic in Toronto is providing single-treatment for 3-BP  at approximately $400.00 per i.v.  and that, in your opinion, would thusly provide cancer patients a better opportunity to experience 3-BP.  However,  should i.v.'s be required every day--5-days a week--then the costs certainly would escalate.

Now I do not know if that time period of daily 3-BP i.v.'s is the usual one--either at Dayspring or the German clinic.  If it is, then a month's treatment of 3-BP i.v.'s alone at the Toronto clinic would cost a patient $8,000.00.  Just not sure about what and how they are offering treatment--did they happen to provide that information for you?

To my knowledge, other accompanying treatments are also a good idea to support and benefit the immune system while having 3-BP i.v's.  Dayspring mentions some--EWOT, Vit. C i.v.'s, dietary support--and no doubt quite a few other things to both support and detox the body.  I am not familiar with exactly what the German clinic is suggesting for patients--but most German clinics do offer quite a variety of treatments for cancer patients--generally tailored to their needs.  The body is very complex--no one single thing can be the entire answer to good health and recovery. 3-BP may be the "nuclear explosion"--as mentioned long ago on this thread--but then the other treatments are necessary, too--as well as life-style changes.

In any event, it seems that those most knowledgeable about 3-BP are reluctant to share because of possible legal problems--especially here in the U.S.  In the book "Tripping Over The Truth"--by Travis Christofferson--much is explained about the devastation experienced by Dr.'s Ko and Pedersen.  Their being betrayed by so-called colleagues and potential investors when attempting to help those in need was heartbreaking.  It is no wonder that Dr. Ko is very wary of opening up and speaking freely.  And there still may be an ongoing legal case with JH--not sure about that.

So all of those seeking the truth  surrounding 3-BP are dependent upon ones with experience--albeit clinics, individuals, etc.--those who will share their health histories and responses with others.  With the purpose indeed that more and better knowledge will be gathered so that, hopefully, lives will be saved--and that individuals will no  longer be caught in the quagmire of what is only offered to them today through conventional treatments.

To state that I am very grateful to have found this thread is quite an understatement.  It is a breath of fresh air and hope.
When I spoke to the administering doctor at the Toronto clinic they told me "some patients" coming from afar had stayed in a nearby apartment or apartments as treatment would be needed for a month or so. They are in an area with a lot of hotels and apartments for rent close by. They also provide complementary treatments, such as IVC, which he stressed would be part of the treatment, or at the very least SHOULD be.  I have assumed that J. had more conversations and came up with a single treatment price.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:53 AM
Quote | ReplyWell said, Jetsparkle.

All I'm advocating for is the gathering together of data that should already exist, held by clinics. But by aggregating them, a picture may emerge: e.g. 3BP seems to work better with oxygen, or with Salinomycin. Some cancers seem to respond better than others. Add that to the already existing papers and you start to have an argument for a properly-funded trial. And the clinics start to have some protection that they're not giving people 'false hope'.

Search on YouTube for LDN Now Scotland Scottish Parliament Petition, and you'll see how others have approached this. There is a British Member of Parliament currently working with an investigatory committee of MPs to get LDN approved for use. We can learn from others, I think
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:56 AM
Quote | ReplyAnd the German clinic have a 51 day protocol, split into two visits (though they are trying to be more flexible - with oral treatments - for overseas visitors)

A one-off treatment isn't going to convince anyone, I'm afraid. But that's not important, because lots of people have already had regular +/- month-long treatments.

All I'm asking is: what happened to them?
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:39 PM
Quote | ReplyMy intention with my comments about single treatment pricing was to provide a strong rebuttal to those who talk of 3-BP as snake oil. (The discussion about the pricing at the Toronto clinic was on or around June 3rd on this thread. The Toronto clinics website says that you only pay for the treatment you receive.)

Few if any anti-cancer treatments have immediate anti-tumor effects. Clinical trials in cancer often take months for a treatment benefit that might only add a week or two of life expectancy. Those unfamilar with the mode of action of 3-BP would simply repeat the broiler plate about it being a snake oil treatment given by greedy unscrupulous people.

These comments have been already made several times on this forum regarding 3-BP. Snake oil has always been sold as cancer treatments often costing many many thousands of dollars and there was simply no way to verify the claims being made. Most people would not even have any particularly impressive way of proving that an approved cancer drug were effective or not.

My rebuttal was meant to strongly dispute such claims. In both the published 3-BP cases, 3-BP as a monotherapy had an immediate anti-cancer effect. This effect could easily be detemined after 1 3-BP treatment at a cost of $4.15. Therefore, 3-BP is not a good treatment vehicle for Snake oil Salesmen. QED.

I suggested that one 3-BP treatment strategy would be to simply replicate the published findings.

Have your labs done.

Receive one IV 3-BP treatment.

Have your labs done again.

If treatment were at first successful, then continue as long as labs verify response.

At no time using such a strategy would tens of thousands of dollars ever be on the table without incremental verifications.

It is true that even with single treatment pricing 3-BP would not be cheap. However, with the above strategy you are only paying for treatment that is successful. Snake oil treatment has always been based on the premise that the patient would be charged for treatments which could not be verified as being successful or not.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 01:01 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 3:56 PM Caddy wrote:

And the German clinic have a 51 day protocol, split into two visits (though they are trying to be more flexible - with oral treatments - for overseas visitors)

A one-off treatment isn't going to convince anyone, I'm afraid. But that's not important, because lots of people have already had regular +/- month-long treatments.

All I'm asking is: what happened to them?
"What happened to them?" is also my question. A huge question. We hear the good stuff but what about the not-so-good? Sometimes, I've heard, "Well the patient was very advanced." Were not the two case studies not "very advanced"? I know Ivar was.

Also, do topical, oral and nebulizing protocols work and what is the best combination of those? Yes, we need trials, but even these do not show what co-factors may benefit tx with 3BP. We need trials with and without 2DG, salinomycin, all three, and so on, and these could go on forever. (Certainly too long for those with cancer who are posting on this thread...) So we plod along, being hopeful—itself a profound changer of genetic expression—yet not too hopeful, for the hope and the prognosis grow not in each other's shadow (to borrow from Kahlil Gibran).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 01:06 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 4:39 PM Jcancom wrote:

My intention with my comments about single treatment pricing was to provide a strong rebuttal to those who talk of 3-BP as snake oil. (The discussion about the pricing at the Toronto clinic was on or around June 3rd on this thread. The Toronto clinics website says that you only pay for the treatment you receive.)

Few if any anti-cancer treatments have immediate anti-tumor effects. Clinical trials in cancer often take months for a treatment benefit that might only add a week or two of life expectancy. Those unfamilar with the mode of action of 3-BP would simply repeat the broiler plate about it being a snake oil treatment given by greedy unscrupulous people.

These comments have been already made several times on this forum regarding 3-BP. Snake oil has always been sold as cancer treatments often costing many many thousands of dollars and there was simply no way to verify the claims being made. Most people would not even have any particularly impressive way of proving that an approved cancer drug were effective or not.

My rebuttal was meant to strongly dispute such claims. In both the published 3-BP cases, 3-BP as a monotherapy had an immediate anti-cancer effect. This effect could easily be detemined after 1 3-BP treatment at a cost of $4.15. Therefore, 3-BP is not a good treatment vehicle for Snake oil Salesmen. QED.

I suggested that one 3-BP treatment strategy would be to simply replicate the published findings.

Have your labs done.

Receive one IV 3-BP treatment.

Have your labs done again.

If treatment were at first successful, then continue as long as labs verify response.

At no time using such a strategy would tens of thousands of dollars ever be on the table without incremental verifications.

It is true that even with single treatment pricing 3-BP would not be cheap. However, with the above strategy you are only paying for treatment that is successful. Snake oil treatment has always been based on the premise that the patient would be charged for treatments which could not be verified as being successful or not.
Very well explained, J.  When I spoke to the clinic, they were quite adamant that they would give 3BP over time and as part of a strategy. I think what they mean on the website is that they determine the treatment (and its cost), e.g. three weeks of 3BP, which was mentioned as a time frame for Don, and that you only pay for this and not for the many consults/checks that go with it. I don't think you can request just one tx with 3BP and get charged accordingly.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Aug 14, 2015 01:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 5:06 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 4:39 PM Jcancom wrote:

My intention with my comments about single treatment pricing was to provide a strong rebuttal to those who talk of 3-BP as snake oil. (The discussion about the pricing at the Toronto clinic was on or around June 3rd on this thread. The Toronto clinics website says that you only pay for the treatment you receive.)

Few if any anti-cancer treatments have immediate anti-tumor effects. Clinical trials in cancer often take months for a treatment benefit that might only add a week or two of life expectancy. Those unfamilar with the mode of action of 3-BP would simply repeat the broiler plate about it being a snake oil treatment given by greedy unscrupulous people.

These comments have been already made several times on this forum regarding 3-BP. Snake oil has always been sold as cancer treatments often costing many many thousands of dollars and there was simply no way to verify the claims being made. Most people would not even have any particularly impressive way of proving that an approved cancer drug were effective or not.

My rebuttal was meant to strongly dispute such claims. In both the published 3-BP cases, 3-BP as a monotherapy had an immediate anti-cancer effect. This effect could easily be detemined after 1 3-BP treatment at a cost of $4.15. Therefore, 3-BP is not a good treatment vehicle for Snake oil Salesmen. QED.

I suggested that one 3-BP treatment strategy would be to simply replicate the published findings.

Have your labs done.

Receive one IV 3-BP treatment.

Have your labs done again.

If treatment were at first successful, then continue as long as labs verify response.

At no time using such a strategy would tens of thousands of dollars ever be on the table without incremental verifications.

It is true that even with single treatment pricing 3-BP would not be cheap. However, with the above strategy you are only paying for treatment that is successful. Snake oil treatment has always been based on the premise that the patient would be charged for treatments which could not be verified as being successful or not.
Very well explained, J.  When I spoke to the clinic, they were quite adamant that they would give 3BP over time and as part of a strategy. I think what they mean on the website is that they determine the treatment (and its cost), e.g. three weeks of 3BP, which was mentioned as a time frame for Don, and that you only pay for this and not for the many consults/checks that go with it. I don't think you can request just one tx with 3BP and get charged accordingly.
Thank you, J. for your further explanation--appreciate it.

And also thank you, A., for your explanation, too!

Just thought of something...historically , a Chinese medicine doctor was paid a retainer to keep their patients healthy.  If a patient became sick, the doctor would not be paid until the patient's health returned.

Sounds good to me!!!  One can dream and hope, I guess!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 01:19 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 5:16 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 5:06 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 4:39 PM Jcancom wrote:

My intention with my comments about single treatment pricing was to provide a strong rebuttal to those who talk of 3-BP as snake oil. (The discussion about the pricing at the Toronto clinic was on or around June 3rd on this thread. The Toronto clinics website says that you only pay for the treatment you receive.)

Few if any anti-cancer treatments have immediate anti-tumor effects. Clinical trials in cancer often take months for a treatment benefit that might only add a week or two of life expectancy. Those unfamilar with the mode of action of 3-BP would simply repeat the broiler plate about it being a snake oil treatment given by greedy unscrupulous people.

These comments have been already made several times on this forum regarding 3-BP. Snake oil has always been sold as cancer treatments often costing many many thousands of dollars and there was simply no way to verify the claims being made. Most people would not even have any particularly impressive way of proving that an approved cancer drug were effective or not.

My rebuttal was meant to strongly dispute such claims. In both the published 3-BP cases, 3-BP as a monotherapy had an immediate anti-cancer effect. This effect could easily be detemined after 1 3-BP treatment at a cost of $4.15. Therefore, 3-BP is not a good treatment vehicle for Snake oil Salesmen. QED.

I suggested that one 3-BP treatment strategy would be to simply replicate the published findings.

Have your labs done.

Receive one IV 3-BP treatment.

Have your labs done again.

If treatment were at first successful, then continue as long as labs verify response.

At no time using such a strategy would tens of thousands of dollars ever be on the table without incremental verifications.

It is true that even with single treatment pricing 3-BP would not be cheap. However, with the above strategy you are only paying for treatment that is successful. Snake oil treatment has always been based on the premise that the patient would be charged for treatments which could not be verified as being successful or not.
Very well explained, J.  When I spoke to the clinic, they were quite adamant that they would give 3BP over time and as part of a strategy. I think what they mean on the website is that they determine the treatment (and its cost), e.g. three weeks of 3BP, which was mentioned as a time frame for Don, and that you only pay for this and not for the many consults/checks that go with it. I don't think you can request just one tx with 3BP and get charged accordingly.
Thank you, J. for your further explanation--appreciate it.

And also thank you, A., for your explanation, too!

Just thought of something...historically , a Chinese medicine doctor was paid a retainer to keep their patients healthy.  If a patient became sick, the doctor would not be paid until the patient's health returned.

Sounds good to me!!!  One can dream and hope, I guess!
L...how very interesting about the retainer! This makes more and more sense to me. Think of the benefits all round. I wonder if the "evidence based" crowd would step outside of their teeny realm of protocols if this were the case.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 02:07 PM
Quote | ReplyThe "one treatment idea" was mainly intended as an arguing point. The snake oil argument mantra is so entrenched that it is assumed that after this ace card has been played they can just reach ahead and claim the pot.

When I have used the "3-BP is not a money pit" argument, I could just see their integrated circuits melting. They were thinking "If cancer patients know right away that 3-BP is working or not, then how would the Snake Oil technique work?" Exactly! It can't! They were slam dunked, no claiming the pot for them. Metabolic therapy changes the entire debate.

The Toronto clinic's website notes that only treatments received will be charged for. One presumes that they would honor this statement. Other unofficial 3-BP clinics have a treatment by treatment pricing model. This shows good faith on the part of these clinics as they would only be charging patients for treatments that were verified to be successful. Of note for both the melanoma and liver patient is that after the first treatment was found to be successful, all subsequent treatments with 3-BP were also successful.

Some might only think of this as a marketing issue, though for many patients on this thread it is of utmost importance. All you have to do to receive top notch medical care with 3-BP is to write a cheque for $20-30,000. A month later you will know whether or not this treatment worked out for you. Many on this thread do not consider this a particularly wise bet. Of course, everything changes when now the ante is $1,000 and you can verify treatment response after each treatment. The ultimate cost of treatment might not have changed, though you have now went from only a few patients willing to be treated to possibly everyone.

If would have been helpful if more such calculating thinking had been done with 3-BP. Earlier in the thread a poster noted that the father of the liver patient regrets the possible over treatment with 3-BP. This overtreatment quite possibly cost his son his life. We need more of the shrewd riverboat gambler and less of the scientist in some of the 3-BP thinking. Writing a cheque for tens of thousands of dollars for a treatment that may not be effective would not be sensible for many patients. Neither was giving more 3-BP treatments to the liver patient after his cancer was already undetectable.

Being paid to keep people healthy sounds great. Patients only paying for treatment that actually helps them would also be a great advance. Think of all the cancer patients who spend many tens of thousands of dollars on approved therapies and are never sure whether or not these treatments are effective for them.

Metabolic treatments offer one of the first opportunities to have real time treatment feedback. 3-BP removes the energy supply to cancer cells. I doubt whether a cancer cell could survive even a minute without ATP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Aug 14, 2015 03:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 3:51 AM Jcancom wrote:

Thank you again everyone for your votes of confidence!

It sure is tough, though, trying to be a mesmerizing, charismatic leader when all of my devoted followers who live for my next syllable are so ... how does one say this ... articulate.

Wow! We are living in this golden age of science, it is amazing. Science Daily News is reporting another CXCR1 story. This one is using CRISPR/CAS9 to genetically modify T-Cells. They talk about genetically editing CXCR1 and PD-1.

This really is like shooting fish in a barrel. If they now have the ability to essentially create any genotype of T-Cell at will, I really wonder how much longer the word cancer will exist.  They are developing a technology that would allow one to create extremely powerful biotechnology. With a platform that is this reproducible, a full pipeline of products could be cranked out.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht m"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht
Lion Bio and the US NCI with the help of Dr Rosenberg MD, PhD have already started to create next generation TILs. They will have persistence over a longer time, modulation of LAG-3, CTLA-4 and PD-1 on the cell surface. Also expression of certain cytokines to increase potency. Even lower cells numbers will be needed and shorter manufacturing, it takes around 5/6+ weeks with first gen TILs. By the end of this year there should be some very early interim data using the NG TILs. Better still they should be starting Phase I and/or II trials in cervical, head & neck, bladder, lung, and triple neg breast cancer all next year. Also the Phase III in melanoma should be fully underway too

The down side it that there have been some grade 5 AE's, or deaths caused by the TILs. They worked too well in some on the trials and caused sepsis by killing the cancer cells very fast. The other downsides are what antigen/s they target and immunoediting by the cancer cells
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 04:02 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 7:29 PM dumbcritic wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 3:51 AM Jcancom wrote:

Thank you again everyone for your votes of confidence!

It sure is tough, though, trying to be a mesmerizing, charismatic leader when all of my devoted followers who live for my next syllable are so ... how does one say this ... articulate.

Wow! We are living in this golden age of science, it is amazing. Science Daily News is reporting another CXCR1 story. This one is using CRISPR/CAS9 to genetically modify T-Cells. They talk about genetically editing CXCR1 and PD-1.

This really is like shooting fish in a barrel. If they now have the ability to essentially create any genotype of T-Cell at will, I really wonder how much longer the word cancer will exist.  They are developing a technology that would allow one to create extremely powerful biotechnology. With a platform that is this reproducible, a full pipeline of products could be cranked out.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht "" target="\_blank" 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rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150727153727.ht
Lion Bio and the US NCI with the help of Dr Rosenberg MD, PhD have already started to create next generation TILs. They will have persistence over a longer time, modulation of LAG-3, CTLA-4 and PD-1 on the cell surface. Also expression of certain cytokines to increase potency. Even lower cells numbers will be needed and shorter manufacturing, it takes around 5/6+ weeks with first gen TILs. By the end of this year there should be some very early interim data using the NG TILs. Better still they should be starting Phase I and/or II trials in cervical, head & neck, bladder, lung, and triple neg breast cancer all next year. Also the Phase III in melanoma should be fully underway too

The down side it that there have been some grade 5 AE's, or deaths caused by the TILs. They worked too well in some on the trials and caused sepsis by killing the cancer cells very fast. The other downsides are what antigen/s they target and immunoediting by the cancer cells
By "sepsis" do you mean of the organ/tissue? Or is this something restricted to the cells themselves, like lysis? I am not a biochemist and this sounds interesting.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 05:14 PM
Quote | ReplyI thought sepsis here meant TLS.

Having the ability to use CRISPR on T-Cells would seem to greatly open up treatment possibilities. You could edit in any mutations you liked. An off switch would clearly be very helpful.

This could be a very important development. There have been multiple generations of adopted T-cells, and CARTs. It will be very interesting to see where this new research heads.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Aug 14, 2015 05:47 PM

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On Aug 14, 2015 9:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I thought sepsis here meant TLS.

Having the ability to use CRISPR on T-Cells would seem to greatly open up treatment possibilities. You could edit in any mutations you liked. An off switch would clearly be very helpful.

This could be a very important development. There have been multiple generations of adopted T-cells, and CARTs. It will be very interesting to see where this new research heads.
CAR-T is over-hyped at the moment. A number don't respond, and many cancers can and will undergo immunoediting. They only target one antigen like CD19, also a number of bad grade 3 and 4 AE's have happened. Also some grade 5 (deaths) AE's down to cytokine storm. Most in one trial were dead in a few months. Then there is the fact it hasn't worked in solid tumors, and the MAGE-A3 target caused severe damage to gray matter in the brain in some trials. In other words they can become toxic to self-antigens. They have already engineered a suicide switch in the lab that kills the cells in the event they need to be. The downside is if its caught too late then the damage could be done. Also treatments costs could be from $500,000-750,000. I still think dendritic cells targeting all cancer antigen's or TILs are much better based on the evidence and science so far.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Aug 14, 2015 05:49 PM
Quote | ReplyBy Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:02 PM: *By "sepsis" do you mean of the organ/tissue? Or is this something restricted to the cells themselves, like lysis? I am not a biochemist and this sounds interesting.*

To correct that. There were no grade 3 or 4 toxicities directly attributable to the infused cells. However there were 2 treatment-related mortalities, 1 in each cohort on one study, that resulted from acute sepsis during the neutropenic[1] period associated with lymphodepletion[2] about 5 days after TIL infusion. Neutrophils make up 60-70% of the circulating white blood cells and serve as the primary defense against infections by destroying bacteria in the blood. Hence, patients with neutropenia are more susceptible to bacterial infections and, without prompt medical attention, the condition may become life-threatening and deadly. Hopfully this make sense?

[1]. An abnormally low level of neutrophils
[2]. Killing off of mostly Tregs (these along with other immune cells can cause immune suppression which helps the tumor not get attacked) with cyclophosphamide and/or fludarabine which are types of chemo drugs given at a lower dose

Virtually all tumors are equally susceptible to lysis. In these pics the people were cured http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459355/figure/F  and http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/16/24/6122/F1.  But this and/or sepsis could still happen
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 05:50 PM
Quote | ReplyDoes anyone know the current state of British law on the question of Right to Try and Alternative Medicine? I heard that England was updating their laws with a Right to Try type law. I am not sure whether there is a seperate Alternative Medicine bill working its way through parliament.

The American Right to Try Laws have received widespread political support, though perhaps they have still not been aggressive enough. Right to Live Laws might be the next step in which patients with very limited life expectancies of 6 months or less might be offered even broader access to medicines in development.

A very helpful legal change that could be made is the mandatory reporting of patient reports from clinics. Having a better estimate of the number of patients treated with 3-BP at various clinics would be extremely valuable information.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 06:41 PM
Quote | ReplyOK, I was aware of the private member's bill. Was there a follow on piece of legislation that would extend the original Bill?

I think one of the key enablers for 3-BP could be data sharing. It seems very unfair to keep patients in the dark about the outcomes that are already known from the alternative clinics. From what I understand, Dayspring is not legally allowed to release patient results.

This seems very wrong. Bad results are withheld to the detriment of patients, as are good results [also to the detriment of patients]. Is there no requirement to provide some governmental authority ongoing reports to assure that, for example, 3-BP treatment is at least safe? Many prospective patients would feel much better knowing that at the very least the doctors will do no harm.

Creating the right legal context for 3-BP could be very helpful. I have gotten some push back on the thread for this, though I still think that the end stage cancer patients could really be the drivers to the finish line for 3-BP. Most patients would likely stay as long as possible with conventional treatments and then when there are no options left, they might consider 3-BP.

I think we really need to think about what patients would be interested in 3-BP and focus on thinking on how we could bring it to where they are at. For instance, typical clinical trials in cancer take years and years and years. Five years is sometimes a short trial. Often even after more than 5 years the results are inconclusive. And then they do another trial. It is no exaggeration to say that some cancer drugs have been in clinical trials for decades! It is not so much that the drugs have failed: it is more that they are still unproven!

There has now been 15 years deliberating whether to even start a clinical trial in 3-BP. In the fullness of time we will see what happens.

Yet, with 3-BP we can get away from all this absurdity. Why not do real time trials with 3-BP? Take cancer patients with weeks or days of life expectancy and treat them 3-BP. We could have answers within weeks! There would be no need to consider long term safety issues for these patients because they are not expected to be alive in the long term.

This is exactly the sort of research that was done with lab animals years ago. In one experiment a researcher was amazed the next morning to find a cage full of apparently healthy animals. The night before many of these animals with severe cancer had been treated with 3-BP, even though several of them did not appear to even be still alive.

It is very unclear why a similar experiment has not been done in humans. It is surely unethical not to have done so.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 07:11 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 9:49 PM dumbcritic wrote:

By Moonlitnight on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:02 PM: *By "sepsis" do you mean of the organ/tissue? Or is this something restricted to the cells themselves, like lysis? I am not a biochemist and this sounds interesting.*

To correct that. There were no grade 3 or 4 toxicities directly attributable to the infused cells. However there were 2 treatment-related mortalities, 1 in each cohort on one study, that resulted from acute sepsis during the neutropenic[1] period associated with lymphodepletion[2] about 5 days after TIL infusion. Neutrophils make up 60-70% of the circulating white blood cells and serve as the primary defense against infections by destroying bacteria in the blood. Hence, patients with neutropenia are more susceptible to bacterial infections and, without prompt medical attention, the condition may become life-threatening and deadly. Hopfully this make sense?

[1]. An abnormally low level of neutrophils
[2]. Killing off of mostly Tregs (these along with other immune cells can cause immune suppression which helps the tumor not get attacked) with cyclophosphamide and/or fludarabine which are types of chemo drugs given at a lower dose

Virtually all tumors are equally susceptible to lysis. In these pics the people were cured http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459355/figure/F 2/"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459355/figure/F  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459355/figure/F  and http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/16/24/6122/F1. large.jpg"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/16/24/6122/F1.  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/16/24/6122/F1.  But this and/or sepsis could still happen
Thank you Dumbcritic. Very enlightening. The images take me back to my days in the histology lab at St. Mary's :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Aug 14, 2015 07:31 PM
Quote | ReplyI guess the obvious rejoinder to the above negative test for the British legislation would be to ask about the positive test: namely, would 3-BP treatment be allowed under the proposed legislation.

Is there any word on whether a 3-BP clinic might be ready to treat there soon?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Sat Aug 15, 2015 03:36 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 14, 2015 11:31 PM Jcancom wrote:

I guess the obvious rejoinder to the above negative test for the British legislation would be to ask about the positive test: namely, would 3-BP treatment be allowed under the proposed legislation.

Is there any word on whether a 3-BP clinic might be ready to treat there soon?
My wife is a patient of a clinic in Bristol in the UK which would be willing to offer 3-BP treatment, however the stumbling block is the necessary sterility data and GMP.  They have contacted Dr Ko concerning the protocol and, like many others, have had no reply, so at the moment have reached a dead end.  It would be interesting to know how the German clinics ( or indeed Dayspring) have obtained this data
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 04:01 AM
Quote | ReplyTo mop up a few loose ends:

1. The so-called Saatchi Bill was vetoed by the Lib Dems just before they were obliterated at the last general election. However, it's been revived and is going through the motions as a private members bill - It's now called the Medical Treatments (Innovations) Bill. With a fair wind it could be made law before the end of this year, as both major parties support it.

2. However, that still might not open the door to drugs like 3BP. The conversation I had with a lead researcher suggested that most oncologists would be very reluctant to go outside of drugs that hadn't gone through clinical trials. The other concerns that this researcher had was that, currently, there's no requirement in the bill to document responses to novel treatments. This is a valid concern, and one I'd support. But, as most people follow whatever their oncologist recommends, it's doubtful that we'd see a swathe of new treatments being implemented - but at least it opens the door beyond surgery/radio/chemo.

3. It's heartening to know that there's a clinic in Bristol willing to try 3BP. Accessing the formulation/protocol is easy - it's in the public domain. I'm sure the clinic in Germany would share their knowledge. Danielus (or I) could help facilitate introductions. Dr Ko isn't the only source in this case!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:06 AM
Quote | ReplyI couldn't agree more that the patient needs to be protected. But I think the bill does this. And I'm also reassured that the concerns about data-gathering have been met. Potentially, this could be the most exciting development for the kind of people on this thread: an open-access database of novel therapies, with evidence of impact. This can provide the sort of safe alternative to the 15 year journey from bench-to-bedside that almost everyone wants to see - not least desperate patients.

Personally I'm a little disappointed that doctors currently are only able to apply this route after all of the conventional routes have been explored - not least because if a patient has been through several rounds of chemo, perhaps the chances of the novel treatment working are already diminished?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 07:16 AM

Quote | Reply

On aug 15, 2015 7:36 rliff wrote:

On Aug 14, 2015 11:31 PM Jcancom wrote:

I guess the obvious rejoinder to the above negative test for the British legislation would be to ask about the positive test: namely, would 3-BP treatment be allowed under the proposed legislation.

Is there any word on whether a 3-BP clinic might be ready to treat there soon?
My wife is a patient of a clinic in Bristol in the UK which would be willing to offer 3-BP treatment, however the stumbling block is the necessary sterility data and GMP.  They have contacted Dr Ko concerning the protocol and, like many others, have had no reply, so at the moment have reached a dead end.  It would be interesting to know how the German clinics ( or indeed Dayspring) have obtained this data
you can ask this clinin in Germany http://kankerbehandelen.nl/3-bromopyruvate/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 09:27 AM
Quote | ReplyThis has given a migraine.

There still isn't enough evidence that would allow 3-BP to be used in England?

In 2009 there was only mice studies for 3-BP. That was sufficient research evidence to treat an underage liver patient in Germany. About all else that was needed was parental consent and a hospital ethics board's approval.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22328020

The centralized decision making process is at the centre of the socio-political problem. Imagine the entire absence of innovation that could result if such authority were further consolidated at a European wide level. Devolving authority would help advance 3-BP and other innovative drugs. Allowing a ethics boards in hospitals to decide on these questions might be a good model.

The current system is almost the worst possible outcome: 15 years after the original report there is still so much uncertainty.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 09:29 AM
Quote | ReplyOxygen therapy?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150304190238.ht
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:07 AM
Quote | ReplySorry everyone. You almost pick up any random article and see how it could be used in a metabolic combo therapy. There are just so many links in the metabolic pathway that could be targeted in cancer.

This really looks almost too easy.

Consider for example the MPC. Mitochondrial Pryruvate Carrier. Cancer cells have low level activity in bringing pyruvate into the mitochondria.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150806133050.ht

Wonder what the simple and probably non-toxic chemical Mito-pyruvate would do? Mito drugs have a postive charge and are dragged into the negative mitochondria sort of similar to a tug boat. Pyruvate is the mitochondria's natural fuel source which is reduced in cancer cells. Pyruvate would be GRAS.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:14 AM
Quote | ReplyGiven our discussion on the lack of innovation in England's health care system, it should hardly be considered surprising that cancer survival in England ranks at the bottom of its peer group.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150804202658.ht
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 01:44 PM
Quote | ReplyOne thing has occurred to me that resonates so clearly and seems profoundly true.

No problem could possibly be so malevolently evil and apparently unsolvable as cancer.

It is only the inhumanity of humans that has made it seem so.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:06 PM
Quote | ReplyI was with my husband in a german clinic He has pancreatic cancer we spent a fortune for a period of 4 week treatments They gave some antibodies tretment and ofcourse Lots of infusion but my message to everyone is There are no doctors out there who will try to help you genuinly Or have passion for curing people they are all trying to make money And doing research in germany or else where on your funds They do not realise at end stage time and money is so Much precious for the patients family Please have strong faith and make any alternate treatment descions Carefully like I said there arent dr's who are trying to help Cancer is just another bussiness MagdaQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMagdal

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:12 PM
Quote | ReplyCaddy nothing happens after spending certain amoubt of tine They tell u sorry it did not work and now we end up in a palliative room After fighting and struggling with disease Now they say we can not change the outcome cancer has taken control of his body I dont know why no obe can find answer to this diseaseQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:17 PM
Quote | ReplyWelcome new poster to the thread.

Have you tried 3-BP?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:27 PM
Quote | ReplyNo but i am trying to reach toronto clinic since 3 days To find out if he is eligible I would like to try itQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMagdal

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:28 PM
Quote | ReplySo trueQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMagdal

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:34 PM
Quote | ReplyI have met a patient in Germany who was suppose to get TACE In pancrease but he also got it in spleen by mistake And it was found our in MRI next day after he got seriously ill And Tace was given by prof you are mentioning in Frankfurt hospitalQuote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 15, 2015 02:42 PM
Quote | ReplyIt was recently proven on this thread that 3-BP does not fit well with the Snake oil Salesmen technique.

If you try one 3-BP treatment and it works as verified by labs, then the money you spend on further treatments will only be spent on a treatment that is effective.

If the first 3-BP is not effective, then you can call it treatment failure.

This way you will waste neither your time nor your money.

Do not reward failure! This makes life difficult for everyone else.

(Note: It is possible that monotherapy 3-BP could initially be unsuccessful and could be converted to success with cotreatments. Determining the failure point in this instance would be your call.)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:05 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 15, 2015 6:42 PM Jcancom wrote:

It was recently proven on this thread that 3-BP does not fit well with the Snake oil Salesmen technique.

If you try one 3-BP treatment and it works as verified by labs, then the money you spend on further treatments will only be spent on a treatment that is effective.

If the first 3-BP is not effective, then you can call it treatment failure.

This way you will waste neither your time nor your money.

Do not reward failure! This makes life difficult for everyone else.

(Note: It is possible that monotherapy 3-BP could initially be unsuccessful and could be converted to success with cotreatments. Determining the failure point in this instance would be your call.)
J, that is just an oppinion and it may be missleading. I do not think that you should take a go/no go decision based on one IV only. Theory is no always same as practice. With any treatment you need to go for a while in order to understand what is the right dose, administration condition, body condition, etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:14 PM

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On Aug 15, 2015 6:06 PM Magdal wrote:

I was with my husband in a german clinic He has pancreatic cancer we spent a fortune for a period of 4 week treatments They gave some antibodies tretment and ofcourse Lots of infusion but my message to everyone is There are no doctors out there who will try to help you genuinly Or have passion for curing people they are all trying to make money And doing research in germany or else where on your funds They do not realise at end stage time and money is so Much precious for the patients family Please have strong faith and make any alternate treatment descions Carefully like I said there arent dr's who are trying to help Cancer is just another bussiness MagdaMagdal, what were the treatments your husband had in Germany? What were the IVs? I agree that there are very few doctors that are more balanced towards the patient vs. money, unfortunately. That includes the alternative doctors.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:20 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 15, 2015 5:44 PM Jcancom wrote:

One thing has occurred to me that resonates so clearly and seems profoundly true.

No problem could possibly be so malevolently evil and apparently unsolvable as cancer.

It is only the inhumanity of humans that has made it seem so.
Well said. There are a few researchers out there who think it is a primitive survival mechanism - the cells will survive no matter what, and they forget they are part of a team. Some Australian researchers had an interesting article on this. What makes it even more malevolent is the money wasted on useless research, paying oncologists ridiculous sums of money when all they do is make asssessments and write scripts (and listen to drug reps). Two that I know have quit for these very reasons. I speak only in general terms. Of course there are caring oncologists out there, many of them prescribing off label, but all ours have done is shove Don into palliative care.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:24 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 15, 2015 9:05 PM Danielus wrote:

On Aug 15, 2015 6:42 PM Jcancom wrote:

It was recently proven on this thread that 3-BP does not fit well with the Snake oil Salesmen technique.

If you try one 3-BP treatment and it works as verified by labs, then the money you spend on further treatments will only be spent on a treatment that is effective.

If the first 3-BP is not effective, then you can call it treatment failure.

This way you will waste neither your time nor your money.

Do not reward failure! This makes life difficult for everyone else.

(Note: It is possible that monotherapy 3-BP could initially be unsuccessful and could be converted to success with cotreatments. Determining the failure point in this instance would be your call.)
J, that is just an oppinion and it may be missleading. I do not think that you should take a go/no go decision based on one IV only. Theory is no always same as practice. With any treatment you need to go for a while in order to understand what is the right dose, administration condition, body condition, etc.
Yes. We keep tweaking and adding and subtracting hoping to see some change. So far nothing but the 2 DG is on its way...and more hope. It is easy to look at Ivar's case and assume this is a one-time deal but the melanoma patient took a while and so have a few other patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:33 PM
Quote | ReplyHe revieved 4 treatments of Removab IP One drug called Keytruda and NTCLa /50 They were alo giving IV vitamin c Liver detox etc but I noticed they were giving same Treatment to everyone no matter what cancer they hadQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterDanielus

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Aug 15, 2015 05:38 PM

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On Aug 15, 2015 9:33 PM Magdal wrote:

He revieved 4 treatments of Removab IP One drug called Keytruda and NTCLa /50 They were alo giving IV vitamin c Liver detox etc but I noticed they were giving same Treatment to everyone no matter what cancer they hadSaunds like Halwang? If yes, why you did not went for Diflunisal (Diflu)?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 07:16 PM
Quote | ReplyDo you have any experience with that clinic or know anyone Who has gone there ? I did not know much about drugs They just did what they thought was right They also gave two cycles of Cisplatin chemo To himQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterDanielus

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Aug 15, 2015 07:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 15, 2015 11:16 PM Magdal wrote:

Do you have any experience with that clinic or know anyone Who has gone there ? I did not know much about drugs They just did what they thought was right They also gave two cycles of Cisplatin chemo To himI havent been there but I did saw some presentation of som of the doctors activating there, I also know some people who went and are going there, also read about the experience of others.

In general my oppinion is taht regardless where you go, you have to be informed and be in the driving seat regarding the traetments and strategies.

I do not have a positive or negative oppinion about them. I just know they are some of the most expensive in Germany.

I alos know they or Unifontis have a very interesting treatment based on Diflunisal that is very expensive but succeded to cure pancreatic cancer with mets. I can connect you with the guy who was cured (from US) if you like.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Magdal on Sat Aug 15, 2015 08:27 PM
Quote | ReplyI will appreciate if you can connect me but I am not sure If at this stage he can get any help that clinic is worst experience I had in My lifeQuote | Reply