Episode 37: "A Brand New Way to Scissor"

*You asked for it, y’all! The crew has gathered to discuss the divisive Netflix exploitation extravaganza THE PERFECTION!   Michael gets snagged on Allison Williams’ wig, Nay finds a use for white women, and Sam and Brennan bond over Bratz: The Movie.   Plus, in Tea Time, we sip on THE SOCIETY, GAME OF THRONES, Paris, and ALADDIN![1]*

## **Trivia**

Trivia: Ernie the sound guy gets several shout-outs this episode. when Brennan can't figure out how to play the trailer for *The Perfection* properly while Ernie's in the bathroom.

Topics brought up during the episode: AIDS Life/Cycle, the first live episode of Queerwolf at the Freida Center, first day of summer

## **Tea Time**

**Nay:** started watching *Game of Thrones* (all of season one so far)

**Sam:** *The Society*

## **Shady Summaries**

**Nay:** I would say it's the old lesbian tale where two dykes travel together way too early in a relationship

**Brennan:** *Yeeeesss!*

**Sam:** So close to perfection that I'm not even gonna read them for trying to pass bubbly contact paper as a hardwood chapel

**Brennan:** A blissful exploitation treat airdropped on a world so starved for lesbian content we're willing to ignore nearly everyone above the line is a man

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Mine is only about Allison Williams

**Brennan:** *Okay*

**Michael:** So, in honor of, I say this in honor of Jada Pinkett-Smith in *Scream 2*. "It's a dumbass white movie about some dumbass white girl gettin' her arm cut the fuck up."

**Nay:** Fair (laughs)

**Brennan:** *Oh*, that's really good!

**Nay:** (sighs) True!

**Michael:** Yeah

## **Pride Float**

**Brennan:** *Does The Perfection* get a Pride float?

**Nay:** Oh, yes

**Michael:** Yes

**Brennan:** If you asked my boyfriend, he would probably *say*… I dunno. Sam, what do you say?

**Michael:** Your boyfriend Sergio?

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** This is not just the Pride float, this is like the Grand Marshal float. It is two giant Jimmy Choo heels with the gold underneath

**Michael:** The cuffs

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** The cuffs

**Brennan:** *Oooh*

**Sam:** But with the dress behind it… 'cause that image is giving me life *every day*!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Yes

**Brennan:** Okay!

**Brennan:** Nay?

**Nay:** Yes. Definitely

**Brennan:** Michael?

**Michael:** Yeah! It does. And it's Allison Williams's wig on a wig

**Sam:** *Ah!* (laughs)

**Brennan:** Oh, God!

**Nay:** It's not, because we don't want a shitty float

**(Sam and Michael laugh)**

**Brennan:** Yeah, okay

**Michael:** I love that I was like, "That wig is horrible!" And then she takes it off like *there's a worse one underneath*! (laughs)

**Sam:** Well, she watches *Drag Race*, so she knows the rules

**Brennan:** I say "yes" to float. I want Logan Browning's eyes, like a full "Eyes of TJ Eckleburg" on the top of the float, and I just want her mouth saying, "I'm so wet," over and over again--

**Michael:** *Ooooh!*

**Brennan:** All the people come out of that

**Nay:** I'm gonna need DJ Von Kiss to remix that

**Michael:** I was just gonna say, give me a remix of that, like walk into The Factory that's all you hear

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** (The theme) for season two?

**Michael:** So I think I like this movie now

**Brennan:** Okay

**Michael:** I'm almost up to liking it now

**Sam:** I think I don't like this movie. I'm taking it back

**Michael:** Yaaaay! I did it!

## **Quotes**

**Brennan:** We are here to talk about *The Perfection*. You asked for it, you got it. We're doing this shit.

**Nay:** I started watching *Game of Thrones*

**Michael:** *Ohhh!*

**Brennan:** I'm hearing that people are just like, "Oh, I've heard of this show, let's get it started now."

**Nay:** Yeah, I was like, "I need to understand the internet again," you know?

**Brennan:** Fair enough

**Nay:** So I had to start

**Sam:** For somebody who has zero interest in *Game of Thrones*, could you summarize what that show is?

**Michael:** Same

**Nay:** Oh, I definitely can't. I just started

**Brennan:** How far are you in?

**Nay:** I watched the first season

**Brennan and Michael:** Oh, okay!

**Brennan:** That's not nothing

**Michael:** First season in

**Nay:** I *mean*, I don't know what the fuck was going on.

**Brennan:** That's almost as much as I've seen!

**Nay:** Like, I don't know what any of these white people's names' are. Yeah. But I am glad I started and I'll definitely finish it

**Brennan:** Okay!

**Nay:** I just needed-- you know I feel like sometimes we've talked about, I've talked about before my hesitance or my lack of desire to really get caught up in these white people stories 'cause you know, it's like I hit capacity sometimes because there's just so much out there already. And I feel like previously when I was working at a job that was *almost* all-white, I was like, "Am I not watching a show full of white people all day every day?" And just, I couldn't talk myself into watching it. But now, I'm usually by myself and so I'm like, "I can take it now." (chuckles) Yeah

**Brennan:** Sounds good. So, do you have a favorite character so far?

**Nay:** Oh yeah. Definitely that dragon bitch, what's her name? Khaleesi? She was the Khaleesi?

**Brennan:** Uh, yeah

**Michael:** (chuckling) "That dragon bitch"

**Brennan:** Daenerys Targaryens

**Nay:** Daenerys Targaryens, yeah

**Sam:** Bitch pudding, isn't it?

**Michael:** (chuckling) "That dragon bitch"

**Nay:** That dragon bitch. Yeah, I like her

**Michael:** Spin-off!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Anyway, so Sam, what have you been watching?

**Sam:** So speaking of white people stories, I'm watching *The Society*

**Brennan:** What even, what is this?

**Sam:** So, just give me an hour and a half and I'm gonna walk you through it. Just kidding. I am obsessed. Here's the thing

**Brennan:** Okay

**Sam:** At first it was not what I wanted to watch, like I watched the first episode kind of as a joke and I'm like, "Ugh. What is this?" And I imagine, I would describe it to you if you have not, you don't know what this is, it's *Lord of the Flies* meets *Lost*. And I haven't read *Lord of the Flies* and I haven't seen *Lost*. *But,* it's what I imagine those things are if you know them. And these kids just show up to this, they go on a field trip and the bus driver turns around and drops them off at midnight and is like, "Alright, everybody out. The roads are closed." And the town is empty

**Brennan:** Ooooh

**Sam:** Here's the thing. I was watching like hate watching 'cause these kids don't fuckin' ask questions. "Hey, who are the bus drivers? Where are the adults?" Nobody's trying to solve-- they meet in the middle of the night and are inexplicably like, "Things are weird." "Yeah." "Let's go back to bed." They don't even-- it's like infuriating the choices they make, so--

**Brennan:** Well, look. As children you have this sort of inherent trust in the systems that are there for you, or at least *some* children, because people have been guiding and leading them for their entire lives they're just kind of like, "Well, why would I question this?" You don't tend to learn that until later, I feel

**Sam:** These people, they're idiots. And maybe that's why I don't like children. Hi, Mom

**Nay:** Children *are* idiots

**Michael:** They're like young kids, right? They're like seventeen, eighteen, right?

**Sam:** They're old enough to fuck, because they do that all the time. It's *amazing* guys. So if you can get past the first three trashbucket episodes, you will be hooked like I was. Like I was texting people in my life, like, "Can you start this? Just start it so I can talk to somebody." And then if you can make it to the Thanksgiving episode--

**Brennan:** *It has a Thanksgiving episode?!?!*

**Sam:** (sighs)

**Michael:** "The One Where Monica Cooks"?

**Sam:** I need season two inside me now

**Nay:** (laughing) Right?

**Sam:** Just to throw it out there, though---

**Nay:** "A layer of peas…"

**Sam:** This is the bringing it back to queer culture, yaaaas, it is the best-written--

**Michael:** "Peas sauteed with beef and onions…" (laughs with Nay)

**Brennan:** I'm listening, Sam

**Nay:** No, Michael and I are having a moment. We're rude

**Sam:** No, I like it

**Michael:** Super rude

**Nay:** Fuck us. Please continue

**Michael:** I was paying attention to yours and Jordan Crucchiola's Twitter session about it

**Sam:** This is my favorite part about it, like the tweetstorm. Jordan was like, "I'm kind of on the fence," and I'm like, "Yeah, it's like my ex. *I just keep going back*!" And it just evolved into this passion we both realized we have for this thing that we don't wanna admit that we love. Not because there's a guilt aspect. I mean, it's trash and it becomes so good. But this is all I wanna say, and then I'm sorry. Grizz and Sam, there is a relationship on this show that shows *how to write* a queer side character. If you write TV and you're listening right now, *write complete character arcs*. And I mean, they are, it is so rewarding in a way that no other aspect of the show is. I was crying every scene like halfway through the season on, just because I connected so hard, and I felt like I was watching something I've been through, so

**Michael:** Cool!

**Brennan:** And where can people watch this series?

**Sam:** Netflix

**Brennan:** *Oh!*

**Nay:** Oh, *perfect*

**Michael:** It stars Kathryn Newton, right? I love her

**Sam:** Yeah, and she's *fierce as fuck*!

**Michael:** Mmm-hmmm! *Detective Pikachu*

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** Very *Big Little Lies* character

**Michael:** Is she back in *Big Little Lies* season two? She has to be

**Brennan:** Probably. I haven't seen it yet

**Michael:** I would hope so. Starts next week. I can't wait

**Brennan:** Yeah. I'm excited for Meryl.

**Michael:** Oh, I love the first season

**Brennan:** Look, *Big Little Lies*' first season is really *really* good

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** But it's like a totally complete story

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** I mean it is, yeah. I hesitate that they're doing a season two

**Nay:** What is that on?

**Brennan:** That's the HBO series about suburban moms in Monterey, so you probably didn't watch because of that. But it's Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon--

**Nay:** Oh, I'm gonna watch *that*

**Michael and Brennan:** Shailene Woodley

**Michael:** Laura Dern, Zoe Kravitz

**Nay:** *Yeah*. I like any show with "lies" in the name, you know?

**Sam:** Oh, yeah

**Michael:** It's so amazing

**Nay:** I'm like, "Oh, *this* is gonna be *lit*!"

**Michael:** I *love* it

**Sam:** (to Nay) How far into *Pretty Little Liars* did you get?

**Nay:** Oh, I watched the whole thing

**Brennan:** Hell yeah

**Sam:** Yeah you did

**Nay:** Because even as absurd as it gets and you're like, "Fuck my life. Are you serious?" You just keep--

**Sam:** Are they in a dollhouse? What am I watching?

**Michael:** Oh, Nay, the best part about *Big Little Lies* is season one is only seven episodes

**Brennan:** That's true

**Nay:** Oh. Okay!

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Seven *perfect* episodes

**Michael:** Seven *perfect* episodes and it's a murder mystery

**Nay:** Hmmm!

**Michael:** I don't wanna-- yeah. It's a mystery

**Brennan:** It's a twist on a mystery. It's really really good.

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** If you can get past kids that talk like they're fifty years old? Then you'll love the show

**Michael:** Then you'll love the show

**Nay:** Oh, that was me, so (chortles)

**Brennan:** Also, Michael, part of the reason we haven't recorded in a while is because you went to Paris

**Michael:** I did

**Brennan:** So, how was *Scream 4*?

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Michael:** *Scream 4*'s great (chuckles)

**Brennan:** Also, how was Paris?

**Michael:** I actually didn't watch it in Paris. I did a lot of--

**Brennan:** *What???*

**Michael:** I did a lot of eating. I walked-- okay, I was there seven full days. I walked forty-seven miles

**Nay:** The fuck

**Brennan:** *Whoa*

**Michael:** A hundred and ten thousand steps and ate so much fucking food. It was amazing. But my favorite thing that we did while we were there, besides visit Brian's sister, who lives in Paris with her husband and their two-year-old daughter, and our best friends were with us, too, which was great. I went to this Van Gogh exhibit at Lumiere and it was *beautiful*. It was this giant factory, or warehouse. Imagine a big warehouse and they had screens on every wall, floor to ceiling and they were probably fifty foot high. And they had round ones in the middle, and it started with a Japanese presentation which was just this really amazing illumination, it's all illumination, it's all illuminated art. So there's this really amazing Japanese seven-minute, essentially a short film on *all* of these walls *and* on the floor *and* on the ceiling, so you're immersed in it. You walk around and it's displayed in front of you. But they did the, the main thing was a Van Gogh exhibit which was essentially all of his works, but-- I love when they take still photography and paintings and shit and they make it move. There's no other way I can describe it. It was just like a *musical* presentation of his work, but they made it all move. It was just so beautiful and gorgeous

**Nay:** Wow. So all those brushstrokes must have looked *nice*, yeah

**Michael:** Oh my God, it was *insane*. And like, no matter where you looked, it was something different. And I can't really describe it, but I'll link the website when this airs so people can see what it's about. But I'm not a huge art person. Brian's super into art, he could go into any museum for hours on end. We went into a lot of museums while we were there, but I was super into this. So it's probably a *Scream* on the "*Scream* scale" for me

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Brennan:** Okay, so not the best

**Sam:** Not *Scream 2*

**Brennan:** But still very good

**Nay:** But still good

**Michael:** But still very very good

**Brennan:** Okay!

**Nay:** Essential

**Michael:** Yeah. Essential viewing

**Nay:** (to Michael) I loved when you were in Paris because you were awake during my awake hours and I could text you (laughs)

**Michael:** Nay and I were texting a lot!

**Sam:** (to Nay) What are your awake hours?

**Nay:** I think, well--

**Michael:** Nocturnal

**Nay:** One A.M. is like my most-awake, that's when I always start my best work

**Sam:** So I should text you after a dick appointment

**Nay:** Oh, yeah!

**Sam:** Cool

**Michael:** Yeah, and it was like ten A.M. for me

**Nay:** Yeah, or during.

**Michael:** (laughing) "or during"?

**Nay:** You know, if it's not going that well. "You know what? I bet Nay's awake."

**Sam:** Fantastic

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. I was texting with her at like, nine A.M., it was perfect because I knew Nay would be up, so I was like, "Hey, what's up, girl?" (laughs)

**Nay:** I'm like, "*Yesss*! We're both up!"

**Michael:** At one point BJ texted me, she texted me like, "Bitch, what are you doing up?" BJ Colangelo, and I had to be like, "Dude, I'm in Paris." (chuckles) But she thought it was like four in the morning in L.A. and I was just up texting about the dumbest shit

**Sam:** (to Michael) In the spirit of tea, may I ask what your *least* favorite part of Paris was?

**Michael:** (sighs) *Oh God*… "spirit of tea". I mean, as a person who used to smoke, and it's been a *long* time since I smoked, and I *still really fucking miss it*, everyone in fucking Paris smokes

**Nay:** (amused) You did text me that at some point, like, "*Everybody smokes!"*

**Michael:** So, it annoyed me because it smelled, and every cafe, everybody's smoking outside. But at the same time, I was like, "Motherfuckers. They're so lucky." (chuckles) Because I wanted to grab cigarettes out of people's hands and *smoke them*!

**Sam:** Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna do it anywhere

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** It's so glamorous there

**Michael:** It's gorgeous

**Sam:** Here, you--

**Nay:** Mmmm, glamorous cigs

**Michael:** Glamorous cigs

**Nay:** That sounds so hot

**Sam:** That's why I started smoking

**Michael:** Glamorous gays. There's so many handsome men in Paris

**Brennan:** I was trying to find a point where like, a balance between not being judgemental towards cigarette smoking-- 'cause also I really wanna watch you take things out of people's hands--

**Michael:** Mmmm-hmmm

**Brennan:** But I also don't want you to fall off the smoking wagon

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** So I was trying to figure out where in the support spectrum I was standing

**Michael:** (chuckles) Well, I didn't smoke, so

**Brennan:** No… I'm imagining you just take them out of the hands and just like, put 'em out so you don't start a fire--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Throw it somewhere fun

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** I'd be into that

**Michael:** Like a purse or something? (giggles)

**Nay:** (chuckles) Good way to get your ass whooped, Michael. Mmmkay?

**Brennan:** So my Tea Time has a little amuse bouche with it

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Brennan:** 'Cause I also watched *Nailed It!* season three

**Michael:** Oh my God! I watched that, that was the one thing I watched in Paris!

**Brennan:** It's so good!

**Michael:** *Yeah*

**Brennan:** "The contestants are hotter. They're more likely to fail at weird things."

**Michael:** Yeah, that one tall gay guy that was like a dancer

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm.

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Tell me more

**Michael:** I was googling him after

**Brennan:** Yeah, no. Nicole Byer is an angel from heaven

**Michael:** She's the best

**Nay:** My angel, my queen. Yeah

**Brennan:** And there's this really wonderful part where this guy makes her a cookie and she chews on it and she's like, "Well, it had the texture of like a bread, like a walnut bread." She's like, "I liked it!" And that's kinda how I feel about *Aladdin* (2019)

**Nay:** (laughs)

**Michael:** Oh, *wow*

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Brennan:** Which I did see, in theaters

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** I am pretty anti-vehemently Disney's live-action remakes. Especially because they're making all the animal ones, and look, I don't wanna sound like a sociopath but I do *not* care about movies with animal protagonists. It's like, "I don't see myself in you, sir!"

**Nay:** "Siddown, Baloo!"

**Brennan:** (chuckling) Yeah

**Michael:** Also, tell me how that's not an animated film

**Brennan:** Yeah, exactly!

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** The new *Lion King* movie is just nature shots with cartoons, it's *Who Framed Roger Rabbit?*

**Michael:** It's all CGI!

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** What?

**Sam:** (amused) "Sit down, Baloo!"

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Nay:** "Sit yo' big ass down"

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm. But no, *Aladdin--* look, there's a lot of stuff that is less than kosher about *Aladdin*, there's a lot of different ways people can approach it. I mean there's obviously the original thing about *Aladdin*, which is like, especially the original, is a lot of white people making this movie about "*Arabian nights*" and--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** It's very *exoticism* and all that stuff. And now there was a very kind of casting controversy with the person who played Jasmine, Naomi Scott. She's half-Indian, half-white, but she's not, a lot of people--

**Nay:** She's light-skinned?

**Brennan:** *Yeah.* Yeah, so I don't really have a horse in that Race except to support the voices of people who feel that way

**Nay:** Right! That's the best horse in any race. Absolutely

**Brennan:** Yeah! I also wanna acknowledge all of that. But I'm also kind of a sucker for a big production number in a live-action movie, and *Aladdin* is a cartoon that actually mostly stars human beings, so--

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** Making it into a live-action film, the translation isn't as weird. I will say, you know, the Ashman-Menken music in the original is probably not their best work, but it's Ashman and Menken music. But there is a new song that was written by Passic and Paul, who did *The Greatest Showman*, and I love *The Greatest Showman*, but *putting that song* next to the Ashman and Menken music does not serve them well. They rhyme "silent" with "quiet" with "try it" in about fifteen seconds. They rhyme "me" with "me" about thirty-two times. It's "This is Me" lite, it's a very challenging number

**Sam:** You're describing every \*NSync song by the way

**Brennan:** Oh, yeah

**Nay:** (sings) "...gonna be me!"

**Brennan:** It's just, it's so inorganic to the movie that they kind of frame it as a dream ballet, (laughing) because they're like, "It doesn't work with anything we're doing!"

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Brennan:** But other than that, I had a good time! Will Smith is great

**Nay:** Of course

**Brennan:** I think, aside from the controversy-- do you have something to say, Sam?

**Sam:** I mean, did anybody see that clip of him singing that "Prince Ali" song?

**Nay:** No, I didn't see, I didn't see any of it

**Michael:** (chuckling) Yeah!

**Sam:** How can you say he's great after seeing that clip?

**Nay:** Is it absurd?

**Brennan:** Look look look, I actually--

**Sam:** It is, it's like *Glee* season two, when they hit the autotune

**Michael:** Two? It's like season five

**Brennan:** Look, I'm (stammers)

**Sam:** (to Brennan) Girl, you asked me if I had anything to say

**Brennan:** No, I will say, I have a perverse nature about me, in that I *like* Russell Crowe in *Les Miserables* (2018), because I can't figure him out. I can't figure out what he's doing. I need to keep listening to him singing "Stars", and it's an addiction for me. I don't *get it*

**Michael:** So you're saying you like bad singers (chuckles)

**Brennan:** A little bit. Sometimes.

**Sam:** *Love* Paris Hilton in *Repo!: The Genetic Opera*

**Brennan:** *I do!* She's the only thing I like in that movie

**Sam:** I'm just saying that the Genie is essentially a drag queen in the cartoon--

**Brennan:** No no no!

**Sam:** It would be *so cool* if they cast a drag queen! I know we're not in that world yet, but what are we doing here if we're not asking for it, so

**Brennan:** *That* is very true. But also, Will Smith is really… I'm kind of paraphrasing film critic Dave White so I don't want anyone to think that I'm stealing from him if they listen to him and us, which they should, he has a podcast called *Linoleum Knife*. But he says, his theory is that Will Smith's kids made him watch *Paris is Burning* before playing the Genie and he's kind of, he lives in this *genderless* world for the Genie where it goes from masc to femme. He performs part of "Prince Ali" in drag and he is *full-bore* into all of it. And look, while the singing may not be completely on point, his performance is really really committed and I appreciated that. 'Cause I have not seen him commit in a while. 'Cause look, I saw *Collateral Beauty*

**Sam:** Oh yeah, same. In theaters and then *twice* on TV.

**Brennan:** I'm so sorry.

**Sam:** I *love* that trash film

**Brennan:** It's interesting! Yeah, no, (Will Smith) is great. Naomi Scott, despite the racial controversies, gives Jasmine an interiority that she kind of doesn't have in the script, so that was something. Also, Nasim Pedrad, from *SNL*, she plays a new character who's Jasmine's handmaiden and she's giving one of the *weirdest* performances I've ever seen, and that is the highest compliment I can give

**Michael:** I love Nasim Pedrad

**Brennan:** *So* compelling and so funny, and you know, she steals every scene she can get in that movie

**Nay:** Imma see it

**Brennan:** *Yeah!*

**Nay:** Sold. Sold!

**Sam:** I'm in

**Nay:** I would have anyway. I love Will

**Michael:** I'll wait. (laughs)

**Nay:** I love Will Smith. I feel like anyone my age who grew up on *Fresh Prince of Bel-Air*, it's just such a good-- Will's the homie, just a feel-good presence

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm. Yeah, he *is* the market star of this movie, so they give him a lot to do

**Nay:** (chortles) He does the most, I'm sure

**Brennan:** He sure does. Anyway, that's my "*Aladdin* Corner". It's not a new marathon, I promise. I'm actually, *oooh*, I'm gonna talk to you guys off-mic about it. I am kind of broiling a new marathon that I'm toying with

**Nay:** Okay!

**Michael:** Got it

**Brennan:** That I'm playing with

**Brennan:** But let's talk about *The Perfection*

**Michael:** *Spoiler. Warning.*

**Brennan:** Oh yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Honestly, if you have not seen *The Perfection*, straight-up don't even listen to the trailer that we play, just go watch it, experience it for yourself and then come back

**Michael:** It's ninety minutes

**Brennan:** It's on Netflix. Even if you don't have it, you have *somebody's* password

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** You know someone

**(Brennan plays the trailer)**

**Sam:** (as the trailer plays) There are a lot of knowing looks right now, by the way… and what you guys can't see is that Netflix is spoiling *the* entire movie in this trailer

**Brennan:** Almost. At least the first act, which is very important

**Sam:** Yeah. I hate that they spoiled so much, but yeah

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm. Now that the trailer is done, do we have Shady Summaries prepared? I'm gonna save Michael for last, because--

**Nay:** It's probably the shakiest

**Brennan:** We're not ready for this jelly

**Brennan:** So, Michael

**Michael:** Yes

**Brennan:** It seems that you're in the hot seat right now. Because I think based on our text chain, you are the *only* one who doesn't like the movie

**Nay:** Oh my lord

**Michael:** Yeah, I didn't really care for it

**Brennan:** Okay, what was your-- at what point did you realize that you didn't care for it?

**Michael:** Uh, when they swerved

**Brennan:** Okay!

**Michael:** Once the swerve happened, I was like, "Eh." Not "fuck this movie" but I was in. First thirty minutes, I was really into it, I thought that it was interesting. I thought that the descent, whether it was going to be into madness or an actual disease was super interesting and it was keeping me on my toes, even though I kinda, it's not that I didn't see the swerve coming, I kinda knew, once the swerve happened I knew where the rest of the movie was going and I thought up until that point they were doing a good job of keeping me interested and kind of guessing what was going to happen next. So when they got off the bus, I was all excited for this stranded in the middle-of-nowhere kind of madness--

**Brennan:** Off-road China adventure?

**Michael:** And as soon as that wasn't the case, as soon as I saw the cleaver come out, like in her hand--

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** I was like, "Fuck this movie." Not even "fuck this movie," I was just like, "huh." I was done, I was out. Everything from then on, I wasn't buying

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm. Well, any movie that has a swerve like that so deep into it, and especially a *second* swerve about half-an-hour later--

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** It'll throw off some people

**Michael:** Big swings. I like that they took big swings

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I just felt that they needed to *hide* a little bit more. As soon as I saw Allison Wiliams take out a prescription pill bottle for ibuprofen, I was like, "Huge giveaway."

**Nay:** Same. Yo.

**Michael:** And then when they show her give pills a couple minutes later and they're brown, I was like, "*Another* huge giveaway." So I just wasn't buying what they were selling after a while

**Nay:** Yeah, the *moment* she picked up the prescription bottle--

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Speaking as someone who *carries* around bottles of ibuprofen, I literally didn't think about it. I was like, "Oh, that makes sense to me."

**Nay:** I did, too. I was like, "Oh, is it the eight hundred milligrams that you have to get a prescription for?"

**Michael:** I actually thought about that, too

**Nay:** But, yeah

**Michael:** *Yeah*. And that *wig*, girl

**Nay:** You are so mad at that wig

**Michael:** I was mad at that wig because the moment she stepped on camera, I was like, "*Are they fucking kidding me with this wig?!?*" (laughs) It was *tragic*

**Sam:** The wig was like they tried to replicate that moment in *Josie and the Pussycats* (2000) where they sideways comb her hair. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? *Too specific*?

**Nay:** Oh lord

**Sam:** No, but like did it with a dollar store budget

**Michael:** I just kept thinking about, "Someone get--"

**Nay:** Yeah, because that was synthetic

**Michael:** "Someone get a drag queen from *RuPaul* up in these wigs." It was a busted wig. And then it was a little baby ponytail, that was killing me

**Nay: *No!!!*** (laughs with Michael)

**Brennan:** But it was *so* classical composer, too

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. I mean, there was some great stuff. The costumes were *amazing*. Allison Williams's big wardrobe in, when they're judging the three--

**Brennan:** Is that the emerald one?

**Michael:** *Ohhh* yes, I loved it so much. The *score* was fantastic

**Nay:** Oh my God

**Michael:** The music was amazing. I just wasn't buying what they were throwing down after awhile

**Nay:** Oh no, I *(*singing) *bought it*

**Sam:** What did you think about the contact paper in the chapel?

**Sam:** Going back to the medication thing, though. As a fan of erotic thrillers-- specifically homophobic late Eighties early Nineties erotic thrillers--

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** I don't actually think that we needed the medication to be the twist. I think that we're *supposed* to, or at least for me, I read it as, "Here are the hints," because we already saw (Allison Williams's) note tattoo at that point, so we knew that she had more of a secret than she was letting on and I think that the medication was a moment where we were supposed to believe she was going to *Single White Female* her, because this movie, *to me*, is taking back the power in those homophobic tropes

**Nay:** Mmmm

**Brennan:** Ooooh!

**Sam:** But it's actually giving us a queer relationship where--

**Michael:** The sex scene was hot

**Sam:** The sex scene was hot, and they had an actual connection, which, and they talked about it after. She goes, "Hey, was that your first time with a woman?" And then they talk about it, *for a second*. I mean, I'm already pulled in because when I look at erotic thrillers, which is the lens I was looking at this through for the *first act* before it became a revenge film, erotic thrillers *always* make it problematic. The sex is dangerous. The sex is what ruins the marriage. The sex is basically what is the signature on your death note

**Michael:** But couldn't it be looked at as the sex was a complete lie? That Allison Williams only did it to get her to the final phase of her plan?

**Brennan:** But the movie *swerves* back into the third act

**Michael:** True

**Brennan:** They have *fully* united, like look at that last shot

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Oh my God. Just a brand-new way to scissor, that's all that was

**Sam:** Ooooh

**Nay:** And I actually never realized that I wanted to *lose* an arm--

**Sam:** Oh my God! Yeah

**Nay:** So that I could play an instrument with someone else like that. I didn't know that was one of my fantasies, but now it is

**Brennan:** Also, the *sleek* efficiency of fisting

**Nay:** Yo

**Sam:** I was *screaming* by myself--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Actually out loud when she pulled out her stump to fist her

**Brennan and Nay:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** That's how I knew this movie was for me

**Nay:** Yeah. Absolutely

**Sam:** That was the moment

**Nay:** I *loved* so many things about this movie

**Sam:** It was like, "Exploitation fans, I see you. Here it is." Because for me, I feel like I've been asking myself for a long time, "What does an exploitation film in 2019 look like? And how can I enjoy it knowing what I know now?" A lot of times I can kind of check out and leave some shit on the door, you know what I mean, like when I go watch something because the time it was made, it was different. But now that we know better, how do we make something like that? To *me*, *The Perfection* is paint-by-numbers how we make something like *that*. But I understand your hesitation. I am just, as a fan of exploitation films-- and honestly, I'll say it, and I *know* there's a conversation about this online, an *ongoing* conversation, I *am* a fan of rape and revenge films. I know that that's not for everybody. I don't believe that rape should be a motivating factor in *strengthening* a character, which is what I think this movie takes a stand *against*. Put a pin in that for a second. I love rape and revenge films like *Ms. 45*, I know that it's a problematic genre and I know it's not for everybody, but as somebody who-- I know everybody has different experiences and has different reactions when they see something on film. For *me*, as someone who has had similar experiences, I feel empowered--

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** Watching somebody take that back and *fuck* with the people who made them a victim

**Nay:** Hell yeah. Same. I would agree with you. Absolutely

**Sam:** *Really?* Oh my God!

**Nay:** As a survivor sexual assault and rape--

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** I *love* rape revenge pieces

**Brennan:** Yeah. And I would highly recommend you check out BJ Colangelo's episode on rape revenge on *Shock Waves*. She puts it out with such *clarity*

**Michael:** Yep. That's a good episode

**Brennan:** Way more than even I could attempt to. But no, you're totally right, you *get*-- everyone gets something different out of a movie, we *all* bring ourselves to it and that genre is definitely an acquired taste, and it's a complicated one

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** But you're *not wrong* for watching them or enjoying them in whatever way-- well, there's certain ways that are a little more--

**Michael:** (chuckling) A little more problematic?

**Brennan:** Yeah. That's such a difficult thing to talk about, its portrayal on film. Especially because in a lot of early films it was used to titillate more than to horrify, but I think once you're, when you're crossing the line back to "this is a horror film and we're depicting something horrible with catharsis afterwards" that can work for people. And that's totally, *totally* fine and you shouldn't doubt yourself because of that

**Nay:** Fuck yeah

**Sam:** I think the reason I'm hesitant is, yeah, it's the backlash of admitting I like something I know is problematic. We talk about problematic faves a lot on this show. And I know that they are, most of the time they're not done well, and even those are made--

**Michael:** Well, they're usually done by men

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** Right. And in this case, it was directed by a man, and there are--

**Michael:** This still was. I prefer *Revenge* (2019) just because it has such a---

**Nay:** Ohh, *so good*

**Brennan:** Oh, that movie has--

**Nay:** *Ohh,* love that movie

**Michael:** To me that movie flips every single trope on that genre because it has a woman's touch

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** I don't know that anyone is necessarily saying *The Perfection* is better than *Revenge*

**Michael:** No, I'm not saying that either

**Brennan:** I think it's a subjective choice

**Sam:** Hot take, I think it is. I know everybody loves *Revenge* but I just wanna throw that out there

**Brennan:** That's fine, Sam

**Nay:** I mean, I definitely prefer watching women seduce each other than like, you know

**Sam:** True

**Brennan:** Also--

**Nay:** 'Cause *that was hot*. That whole seduction was hot as fuck

**Brennan:** And it is a crime we have not mentioned Logan Browning yet

**Sam:** (sighs) *Captivating*

**Brennan:** She is in the *top one* most beautiful women in the world

**Michael:** She's gorgeous

**Nay:** It's true. Which was the disappointing part of the movie to me. I was like, "Why her?"

**Brennan:** Like, "Why Allison Williams?" Or…?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** I'm like, "Is she the first dyke to roll through?" I know we needed it to happen for the movie to happen

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** Well, they're both on the same level in their passion

**Nay:** Yeah, I feel that. I mean, as a musician and as someone who's played an instrument most of my life, that definitely added to the heat for me

**Michael:** Yeah, they seemed to be more into each other's talent

**Nay:** I mean, that's gotta be it

**Michael:** You know what I mean? They seemed attracted to each other, yeah

**Nay:** Yeah. If you can play cello like that for me?

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Nay:** Then, you know--

**Michael:** They were attracted to each other's fingers

**Nay:** That was weird

**Sam:** That cross cutting of them making music together--

**Nay:** *Ohh,* that was amazing

**Sam:** And then making (softly) *sweet beautiful love*--

**Nay:** Okay, *ew* (chortles)

**Sam:** I was just like, "This is everything."

**Nay:** Yeah. No, I loved how that went back and forth like that

**Sam:** And it's interesting because we get that male gaze, right? It is a male director, we are seeing queer sex through that lens. So I know I was hesitant because I didn't know where it was going, and it really is the direction that it went that worked for me with their sex

**Nay:** Yeah. And to hear how comfortable they were in the moment filming, if you read Jordan's--

**Sam:** Yeah I did

**Nay:** Yeah, of course.

**Sam:** If you guys haven't, Jordan Crucchiola, Vulture, the article is, "Let's talk about the *insane* ending of Netflix's *The Perfection*". Please find it

**Nay:** Yeah. And I love that they were comfortable with that *while* filming and after filming they felt good about what they had made

**Michael:** It matters

**Nay:** And I don't know how many people, yeah, get the opportunity to feel that way, so that's dope

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** It is dope, yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah. And this is a movie where we get to see queer sex and there is a lot of violence and pain following for those people, inflicted by each other and by other people but in the end they are *alive*

**Nay:** Isn't that how it goes? (laughs)

**Brennan:** Well, okay, yeah. No, but at the end they *are* alive, they are strong, they are together. And it's just this really beautiful thing--

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** This really twisted, demented package

**Nay:** Yeah, I think we've all dated someone who tried to save us by ruining us (chuckles) I'm like, "*Can* relate!"

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** "This bitch just made me chop off my fucking hand." (laughs)

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm!

**Michael:** She couldn't have done something else, though? (chuckles)

**Nay:** Right. How about you just chop off his fuckin' hand?

**Michael:** Right

**Nay:** How 'bout that? How 'bout you shut down the whole thing?

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** That's the thing I took really big issue with is, it felt like another case of where the characters couldn't have everything, it was either one or the other. And they literally had to mutilate themselves to find any sense of strength or of themselves at the end

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And to me, I'm just like, "Why can't it ever be, they get both. They get their power and they get to keep their talent." And I get that the whole ending is supposed to be the two of them coming together as one. I was actually screaming at that scene too, but for all the wrong reasons

**Brennan:** Oh my God. That scene was genius.

**Nay:** *I loved it*

**Brennan:** The little Steven Webber like a starfish just sitting on the sofa couch?

**Nay:** *Yes!!! Yes!* I loved it

**Michael:** I wasn't buying it

**Sam:** (to Michael) Walk me through it. I want your reaction. You're watching it…

**Michael:** About forty minutes into the movie, I wasn't enjoying what you guys were. I mean, I thought the movie was very entertaining, but I don't consider it to be like, this genius piece of work. I really don't. It was an entertaining film, and for me, I couldn't get past the conveniences of the twists that relied a lot on coincidence or stupidity. I was like, *screaming* when she was up there playing the cello and I was just thinking back, "Okay, so they knocked her out, they dolled her up, they *did her hair*, but no one knew it was a wig?" (giggles) You know what I mean?

**Sam:** Fair

**Michael:** I just got to a point where I was finding fault in everything and maybe that's just me, but I was entertained for the trash that it was

**Brennan:** Yeah, well, look, she *does* have a Joker level of pre-planning in her like, "I'm gonna make her hallucinate that bugs are coming out of her arm"

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** "We're gonna share this thing…"

**Michael:** And the two of them's plan at the end relies on a lot of Joker level-- (chuckles)

**Brennan:** Yes it does, but you *know* this can't happen in real life

**Michael:** *Right!*

**Brennan:** But that's an exploitation movie

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** It's *so* bananas that it's like this delicious banana split--

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Brennan:** And I feel like I'm in-between Michael and Sam. 'Cause I'm not like, "Oh, this is a work of genius," and I'm not like, "Oh, I hate this." I just--

**Michael:** I don't *hate* it, I'm just not--

**Nay:** (as one of the *Men on Film*) "*Hated it!"*

**Sam:** This is a work of genius

**Michael:** I don't find it to be a masterpiece. And I think part of it, too, is that we live in a culture now where if you watch something five days after it comes out, you literally hear nothing but a one or a ten from the internet for those five days

**Brennan:** If it helps, I'm at an eight

**Michael:** (chuckles) But you know what I mean? You go in, you're already five days behind; think about that, it's only five days

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** But you already feel like there's a consensus on and I watched it and I was like, "This is what everyone's praising." I just didn't get it

**Brennan:** Hype can be really challenging

**Michael:** It can!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I think Twitter either, especially, it's either everyone's like, great at the end of the day I guess. Like I said, there's no gray area

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** It's either everything's a ten or it's a one. There's nothing in-between any more

**Brennan:** Well, you know, human beings love themselves a binary

**Nay:** Okay. Yeah they do

**Brennan:** Instead of, you know, the truth is that most movies are fine

**Michael:** *Yeah!* And that's the thing--

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** We've lost sight of that. Something can be *okay* to somebody and that's fine, you know?

**Sam:** But also, when you're tweeting something, I'm only gonna tweet about the shit that's a ten or a one

**Brennan:** True

**Sam:** Because I'm not gonna talk about all the mediocre garbage I have to sludge through just to find that

**Michael:** No, I understand that

**Sam:** But when I'm on fire for something, *I'm on fire for it*, and I'm gonna tweet again and again and again. Not that that's about me, I just made it about me. I'm an expert at that. But I do feel like it's boring to tweet about anything else, so when we *do* get movies like this, I agree with you, you can't escape it, it does flood your feed in a way that feels like you didn't even have a chance to judge it

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** You know, the hype gets real high real fast

**Nay:** I try to ignore it as much as possible

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, that's really--

**Michael:** That's on me, because I was talking to Jordan about it today, because she's a huge fan of it, too, and we were going back-and-forth in a very nice, constructive way about why she liked certain things and why I didn't and stuff. And I think for me it's almost like, "Maybe I just need to delete my Twitter account and not be affected by the hype."

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Sam:** *Oh, Michael! Moooom!*

**Nay:** Don't go

**Brennan:** Awwww!

**Michael:** *No!* And it's not because I'm being drama--

**Nay:** *Jesus*

**Michael:** But the point is, falling into the hype of something is my deal, it's not people hyping its deal is my point

**Nay:** Yeah. That's a personal problem

**Michael:** So for me to get out of that deal--

**Nay:** Right. (dramatically) "*Delete my Twitter!*"

**Michael:** You've gotta take away the source that's providing that overhype for you, right?

**Brennan:** Well… or maybe you can, I dunno *how* you can approach this, but maybe you can be like, "These people liked it, I can try to do a clean slate, let's pretend I've never heard anything…"

**Michael:** *True!*

**Brennan:** "Let's just go into this." I dunno where I was going.

**Brennan:** I will say one thing that I wanted to bring up earlier is that I was fully at a seven watching this movie, but literally the last shot got me to an eight. 'Cause I was like, "This is the thesis of this movie…"

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Mmmm-hmmm

**Brennan:** "And it just connects the tone of everything," and I was like, "Hell yeah. We got this."

**Nay:** Yeah. The only thing I was really-- Annie (x) said that she liked it, our guest from last week, y'all

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** *Oh. Love* Annie

**Nay:** Love Annie, and I was like, "I'm sold." You know?

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Yeah, you need to seek the advice of the people you trust

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** And not the collective mind

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** Or if it's someone you like and they like something that you don't care about, you just have to know them

**Michael and Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** So I'm gonna be real. When I texted the group after I saw (*The Perfection*), I mean, I saw it and I immediately texted everybody, "OH MY GOD *THE PERFECTION*," all caps. You guys got it. I was thinking about you Michael, because when we did *Carrie 2*, you were done with *Carrie 2* once there was a suicide, and the trauma of that. And that was the moment you had exited. And I thought, "I wonder if you exited when the reveal that there was abuse going on, that like, took you out of it." But it sounds like it was before that. Just curious

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** (to Michael) If it was a *full* disease pandemic movie, would you have liked it more?

**Michael:** I dunno! I mean, I liked where it was going when it was doing that, so maybe. I dunno

**Nay:** You know I was thinking when they were first on the bus and, what's Allison's character's name?

**Michael:** Charlotte

**Nay:** Charlotte. When she's asking the bus driver to pull over, I'm like, you know what? If you find yourself sick anywhere, you *do need* a white woman with you advocating for you. Like, the *audacity*. That's like, *I*, *I'm* somebody who moves through this world and for the most part is just like, "I'm just get out of everybody's way. Leave me alone. I'm gonna move this way, I'm gonna move this way." If I can not ruffle any feathers with my physical presence I'm gonna do that. And I was *so* uncomfortable thinking about what I would be doing if my lover over here is-- well, when you're watching that part you don't know that this bitch just fuckin' poisoned her

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** But I was thinking of the discomfort of your lover losing their shit and being *so* sick and then knowing that maybe you should ask the driver to pull over. But I would be so-- I'd be like, "Oh my God, I'm bothering everyone right now! I can't."

**Brennan:** Yeah. She is like, *giving* *commands* to that guy throughout

**Nay:** *Yes*. That's what I'm sayin'

**Brennan:** Like, "Give me some water. Give me some aspirin."

**Sam:** *I'm saying*

**Nay:** If you are in the hospital, bring a white woman with you. Because she is gonna ask for shit that you are never gonna ask for. I promise you

**Brennan:** Yeah, she was about to ask that bus driver for his manager

**Nay:** *Yo.* Right. *Right!* (laughs) Exactly

**Michael:** "Get your manager"?

**Nay:** Yeah. "Who's your boss?"

**Michael:** I actually kept going back to being in France and not knowing the language and feeling like a complete dumbass shithead

**Nay:** Well--

**Michael:** And rude! You know what I mean?

**Nay:** Yeah! Yeah. For Sure

**Michael:** I felt rude in France several times, not knowing the language

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** (chuckling) It's really funny--

**Nay:** Just get you a loud white woman

**Michael:** "Just bring a white woman with you"

**Nay:** Ain't nothing like 'em. Advocate 101

**Michael:** Yeah. That's an interesting scene because it's such a, "What do you do?"

**Nay:** Oh my God

**Sam:** So stressful

**Nay:** And then--

**Michael:** That was the scariest part of the movie to me, was not being able to articulate or having a connection to understanding this panic you're in, you know?

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** That was scary

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** That was really scary. And Logan Browning, I thought the best part of her performance was in the bus

**Nay:** *Oh my God*

**Michael:** And just going-- I was super into it

**Nay:** *Oh yeah*

**Michael:** Thinking, "This is horror. This is *real-life* horror right now."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** So I think maybe because I was so into, kind of like the realistic aspect that was going on at the time, when it did a complete swerve and went into camp territory?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** That's, I think, a big reason why I was just kind of like, "I'm out."

**Nay:** You remember when Charlotte's like, wiping the shit off of her legs?

**Michael:** *Yeah!*

**Brennan:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** And talking about her mother and stuff? Yeah

**Nay:** "Don't worry, I took care of my mom." I was like, "*This* 👏 is 👏 date *👏* number two!"

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** "This is our second date!"

**Michael:** I loved that line--

**Nay:** Fuckin' lesbians

**Michael:** 'Cause it was such a connection to her past

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** So it actually made a lot of sense for her to say that

**Nay:** Yeah, no, I loved that backstory of (Charlotte) going to take care of her mom and her being hospitalized for her own mental health, like her shaved head and her needing the wig, all of that. I thought that was excellent and I was laughing because I think so many of us *do*, and when I say "us", I mean lesbians, do get in these relationships where date two, you're on some serious shit already. Whether it's like, "Oh, you wanna meet my Mom?" Or, "Oh, you wanna move in together?" Or it's like, "Can you wipe the diarrhea off of my legs because I'm dying right now! My head is on fire!" I'm just like, my worst nightmare would not only to be sick somewhere where I can't speak the language to advocate for myself or ask where the hospital is

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Or (advocate) for somebody?

**Nay:** But to have to *rely* on this person I just met to take care of me? Like I would rather fucking… I was gonna say something thoughtless. I wouldn't rather kill myself. *But*, it's hard for me to ask for help period, so

**Michael:** Well I was wondering if that's what Logan Browning's character was gonna *do* at some point

**Nay:** Yeah!

**Michael:** 'Cause she was giving such a fucking tormented--

**Nay:** If I thought I saw bugs on my hand--

**Michael:** *Yeah*, like tormented performance

**Nay:** And my head felt like it was on fire? I'd run off a cliff. I'd be like, "See ya." (chuckles)

**Brennan:** But look, I'm kind of jealous of that, too, because look. I'm in a relationship, but if I find myself out of that and I'm single and I have the diarrheas, I would want a wet-wipe lesbian to help me with it

**Nay:** *Yoooo*

**Michael:** (amused) "Wet-wipe lesbian"

**Brennan:** Forget the U-Haul, just come prepared

**Michael:** "Just come wipe my ass"?

**Nay:** I always say this. I think one of the most caring and beyond thoughtful things you can do for someone is clean up their sick

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Mmmmm-hmm

**Nay:** Like if they throw up, whatever

**Michael:** That's why moms are great for that shit (chuckles)

**Nay:** *Yo.* If you wanna show compassion for someone and mass kindness, clean them up like that

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** You can't, I've done that for people I don't even *like* and I didn't dislike them after I did it because it's such a humbling experience

**Michael:** It really is

**Nay:** Yeah. You're like, "Well, I just changed your diaper, so do I hate you any more? Not really."

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** I mean I feel like that's what happened with my Grandma when she got old. Like I didn't necessarily care for her as a child, but then when she got old and sick and I'm like changing her diaper, I'm like, "*You know what?* She's not that serious any more."

**Sam:** Yeah, I was fully in for Charlotte in that moment, even knowing that she may have been up to no good. Because anybody who's ever taken care of anybody in that capacity, *you connect*

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** That's real. And the thing that she said was real. And I was like, "Okay, there's something with heart here."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** I *do think*, I actually really like what you were saying earlier about her kind of leading her down that path and whether or not that was the right thing, like, "Couldn't you have done something else than cut off your hand?" I put a lot of thought into it 'cause I think that it may actually have to do with more where those are the tools. Like, (Charlotte) manipulates her all the way down

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** (Charlotte) gaslights her, makes her believe that there's *one* choice and she goes all the way down that road. Just like they did to her. And so I think in some ways it comments on the cycle of abuse, and the way that she perpetuates it. Luckily, that shit, (Charlotte) is able to move past it after act one. I think that it isn't necessarily the *best or only* choice, but I think it's what she knows. That said, rather than make it become her superpower, because I think a lot of times abuse becomes, it's like, "Oh, it's made me this strong superhuman person." Instead, they're like, "No, fuck that. Rape doesn't make you stronger. Rape doesn't make you able to overcome the situation." And we can imagine for a moment a world in which the two of them had not been hindered by that abuse rather than reveling in a third act where the abuse is why we got there. It's like, all they did was survive. And then what they have is each other. And that's the piece that I hadn't seen before

**Michael:** Hmmm! That's a good way to put it

**Sam:** Yeah. It reminded me of the #MeToo movement in a way, where, you know, when actors were beginning to speak out and there was some backlash from actors who were still *in* that cycle of abuse and maybe felt, and were receiving some of the benefits of that, it was hairy at first, right? And then, there was a little bit more of a reckoning. And then everybody took their wig off and they were Rose McGowan, shaved head underneath

**Nay:** I did appreciate how, well, I had these thoughts coming up during (*The Perfection*)-- okay, back up. So there's this larger conversation among disabled folks about how when people express their fears, and their fears are like, "I'm so scared that I'm gonna lose an arm one day." Or, "I'm so scared like, what if I can't walk and I'm in a wheelchair one day?" It can be really ableist to say those things, and it's-- I don't think any of us *can not* understand why people fear those things, because we know how ableist this world is and how hard it is to function in a world that is *not* made for you and does not support you

**Michael:** Right

**Sam:** Mmmmm

**Nay:** But I kind of love that in this movie, although it changed everyone's lives, but like the least gruesome or horrible thing in this movie is that people lost limbs

**Michael:** *Right*

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** And that they ended up with this limb difference. And I loved how they were making it fucking work at the end, you know?

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** 'Cause I had some thoughts come up like, "Oh man, that'd be so horrible to lose a limb and not be able to play the instrument that you wanted to play." And I really had to talk to myself about where that fear comes from. And the fear, and not that it's wrong to fear losing part of yourself or your life changing drastically, but I noticed a lot of those fears for me come up because *the world* is not accessible and not because people's bodies change

**Michael:** Well, first thing that happens to her when her body changes, is she gets tossed to the curb, you know?

**Nay:** Yeah. Yes!

**Michael:** Which is… fucking terrible

**Nay:** *Ri*g*ht*

**Michael:** Of course it's by the guy who wins

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** What happens often for folks who experience a disabling event--

**Michael:** Yeah. Any sort of like, life-altering thing--

**Nay:** Yeah, totally

**Michael:** If it's physical, yeah, there's always some sort of, either it's cast-off or it's pity, you know

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And it's just like, I dunno. Steven Webber, man. (laughs)

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** He's like the *epitome* of that. I guess that's really good casting and really good performance work, because I wanted to *fucking* knock his lights out the entire movie, you know? (sighs) It is good how he ends up in the end

**Nay:** Oh my God. I love it

**Brennan:** It's such a beautiful sight to behold!

**Nay:** I mean, I can't with-- yeah

**Michael:** He has like, an IV (laughs)

**Nay:** (softly) *Yo*. (normal voice) *Ohhhhh, so gnarly* but so wonderful!

**Michael:** And he bled more than I realized

**Brennan:** If you want to, you can be like, "Where did they get that IV?" But why would you want to?

**Nay:** Right. They've already figured out how to play this instrument together. Of course they can figure out where to get an IV

**Michael:** I was hoping the little girl would be sitting next to him

**Nay:** Yes. Him on a leash

**Michael:** Yeah, like her holding his collar

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** She doesn't need that

**Sam:** I was so glad they handled her responsibly. I was kind of shocked, because coming from stuff like *The Audition* and that whole genre of revenge, kids or animals, that shit's gonna fall by the wayside immediately. And the stress of watching that scene with her, knowing the history of this subgenre, it was like, "Well, we're fucked and I'm not gonna enjoy this."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Well, even the history of the character

**Sam:** Yeah, yeah

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** So when he let her go, that was responsible. It's kind of like at the end of *Get Out* when they show the police lights--

**Nay:** (groans)

**Sam:** But it's not the police lights, but it was enough to make you think it happened

**Michael:** Oh, yeah!

**Sam:** That's what I felt this moment was like

**Michael:** (to Nay) Did you just get goosebumps?

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** (chuckling)

**Sam:** I feel all of that without having to carry the weight of it

**Nay:** (softly) *Yes.* (normal voice) Ohh, when it wasn't the fucking police, do you remember that moment? *Oh my God*

**Brennan:** Yep

**Michael:** As soon as you saw the lights in that movie, you're like--

**Nay:** Oh, I shit myself

**Michael:** I remember literally saying out loud, "Oh, *fuck*."

**Nay:** And well, like, *thank God* you're a white person who had that reaction. I feel most white people watching that movie are like, (as a chipper white person) "Oh good, the cops are here!"

**Michael:** Yeah, no I was like, "*Fuck*."

**Nay:** Yeah, fuck you. That's death with the light coming on

**Michael:** And then Lil' Rel pops out and you're like, "*Yaaaaay!!!!*"

**Nay:** "*Lil' Rel*, *yes!!!!* Fuck yes."

**Michael:** That wasn't the original ending

**Nay:** Right. I'm *so glad* (Jordan Peele) gave us that

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** That he gave us a happy ending?

**Nay:** Oh my *God.* That was really really important

**Michael:** I honestly think that if he had gone with his original ending, I don't know that the movie would have had the exact same embrace

**Nay:** I don't think so either. Well, it just wouldn't

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** It wouldn't. It's not the same movie

**Michael:** Yeah, you're right

**Nay:** It really changes a lot of things.

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** It's like we got to see both of these queer protagonists live at the end

**Nay:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** Which is great

**Sam:** One didn't have to die

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** Nobody had to die for the other. Nobody had to be crazy

**Michael:** *Lived* and in charge

**Nay:** *Okay?* Being bad as hell

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Did you see them playing that? I was really…

**Brennan:** That *manic* quality to it

**Nay:** *Oh*, yes

**Brennan:** It is just so *delicious*

**Nay:** Could you just imagine-- I dunno. It was *so hot* for so many reasons, like not just their seduction--

**Michael:** The outfits

**Nay:** And not just them killing people together, which is also hot (chortles)

**Brennan:** Oh my God, that shot of (X's) lips saying, (whispers) "*That makes me wet*." *Ohhhh*!

**Sam:** *Oh!*

**Nay:** And it did. Yeah

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Brennan:** I am so gay for Logan Browning. Oh my God

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** Jordan was saying that in person, it's like--

**Brennan:** *Really?*

**Michael:** Even more insane how pretty she is

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** "It's almost like she was printed (chuckles) or something like that. Like she's that gorgeous

**Brennan:** I think she's the person who *holds the tone* of this movie *together*!

**Nay:** Oh yeah. Totally

**Brennan:** Like the way she delivers the line, like, (growls as Logan Browning) "I have the bitch."

**Nay:** *Yesss*

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** And just the *wild* angles she's coming from, smashing her head against the bus window to the other stuff

**Nay:** *Yes!* Oh my God!

**Brennan:** Look. I knew she could do it

**Michael:** She could do a lot of stuff

**Nay:** *Yo*

**Brennan:** I knew she could do it 'cause I've seen her in *Bratz: The Movie*. But--

**Sam:** Oh my God! (sings) "Brattitude!"

**Nay:** *Yes!*

**Brennan:** It's *so* good!

**Sam:** I have the soundtrack!

**Michael:** I used to (chuckles)

**Brennan:** It's the best trash high school movie you'll ever see

**Nay:** I *forgot* *about that*. She *does* slam her head into that bus window

**Michael:** Yeah. *Hard!* Hard

**Nay:** *Uggh! So good*

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** *Ooooh*

**Michael:** Yeah, I think that was a big reason for me why I didn't enjoy the second half is the tonal shift. I was totally all in on the tone of the first half of the movie, so when it was so *jarringly* shifted, it was good for people but for me, I was just like, *mmmm*, swing and a miss, that's kind of how I feel. And that's what I appreciated most about the movie at the end of the day is there are some big fuckin' swings. Like creatively, like technically, like front and back, side-to-side, the movie had a lot of swings and I really appreciate that whether I agree with them or not because it's *bold*

**Brennan:** *Yeah*

**Michael:** It's like you're doing *something*. You're not just following, (to Sam) like you mentioned earlier paint-by-numbers shit, you're really attempting to do something different. For me, it just didn't all work.

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** But the first half? Like I was fucking *all in*. I kind of want to make up the second half of the movie in my head based on that

**Brennan:** And I mean, 'cause they're hopping subgenres

**Michael:** *Yeah*, I mean they really are. Which is *cool* at the end of the day, too

**Brennan:** Yeah. You might not like both of those things

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Brennan:** For me, I have this love-hate relationship with pandemic movies, because I'm definitely like a huge hypochondriac, and so--

**Michael:** They never end up being as good as they look either (chuckles)

**Brennan:** Well, okay. But no, I have this sick kind of fascination with it, with the zombie movies that are explicitly about a virus. Or, I watched *Contagion* with my boyfriend and he would not stop coughing on purpose. It was disgusting

**Michael:** Oh, God! (chuckles)

**Brennan:** But it's just like something that affects me really profoundly

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Brennan:** So when it changed, I actually felt a sense of relief to it

**Michael:** Sense of relief? (laughs)

**Nay:** *Oh*, I felt a lot of relief

**Brennan:** Yeah, where I was like, "Okay, we can move on…"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** "From this organs exploding out of you…"

**Nay:** Right. Yeah

**Brennan:** Because if it went on for any longer, I would have been like, "I think I have it."

**Nay:** Oh, absolutely!

**Michael:** See, I was loving it, because I was loving that sense of dread, and I was *scared*. Literally, I was pulling the blanket over me--

**Brennan:** Oh *yeah*

**Michael:** Because I was waiting for her *head* to explode

**Nay:** Mmmm

**Michael:** I was waiting for something, some sort of organ to *shoot out* of her stomach

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** And once it hit that tonal shift, I was like, "Damn, i was just sitting through dread for forty minutes and now…"

**Nay:** Well when that man first started puking--

**Michael:** *Yeah! Yeah!*

**Nay:** I was like, "Oh. That's the husband of old girl? Oh, she poisoned him."

**Michael:** *Yes!*

**Nay:** "She's trying to get out of her marriage."

**Michael:** Or I was like, waiting for her to puke, too?

**Nay:** I thought the twist was gonna be like, she poisoned him and somehow realizes that these two lesbians noticed, they're like-- and then it was gonna be like--

**Michael, Brennan and Sam:** *Ohhhhh!*

**Michael:** Okay!

**Nay:** So all throughout the movie I kept thinking, "Okay. Now it's this thing." So I'm like, "He puked. His wife poisoned him to get out of the marriage, she's gonna find out that these lesbians know and it's gonna be like--"

**Brennan:** *The Perfection 2*, you have just written it

**Nay:** *Right*. But when she puked I was like, "Oh no, they went to Hunan and now they're all sick."

**Michael:** Yeah, that's what I thought too

**Nay:** Yeah, so I--

**Michael:** I actually was shocked because I remember hearing that the movie was a *certain thing* and I was like, "This is not going the route I expected this movie to go."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm!

**Michael:** "I thought these two were gonna be fighting." Maybe I was expecting the ending of *Obsessed* to happen in the first ten minutes of the movie (laughs)

**Brennan:** Like a *Black Swan* or something

**Sam:** Oh *God*. *Ooof.* Throw her through a glass table. (beat) Beautiful

**Michael and Nay:** (laughing)

**Michael:** Sam just had like, a facial orgasm

**Sam:** You are speaking my language

**Brennan:** (to Sam) Did you ever see *Unforgettable* (20XX) with Katherine Heigl and Rosario Dawson?

**Sam:** Oh, *girl*. Opening night. *Stop!*

**Michael:** (to Sam) You were there, too?

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** (laughing) I *love that movie!*

**Nay:** Oh my God, y'all are so gay

**Brennan:** Rosario's *so* good in that movie

**Sam:** Rosario's incredible. Katherine Heigl and her character--

**Michael:** Katherine Heigl is--

**Sam:** I couldn't care for until this movie

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Michael:** Made for that movie

**Nay:** I love her

**Michael:** I do, *too!*

**Sam:** Please only play a psycho in whatever

**Nay:** *Grey's Anatomy*

**Michael:** One hundred percent

**Nay:** I love her

**Sam:** Also, I like to see her in *Valentine*

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** Katherine Heigl, like it's bullshit. She was shunned by the industry for literally saying she was in a misogynistic movie, which was true

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Oh yeah

**Brennan:** Yep

**Michael:** And here's fuckin' Mel Gibson rolling around

**Nay:** Only misogyny would shun you for that

**Michael:** Right

**Michael:** Mel Gibson's about to play fuckin' Santa Claus (sighs) That's a whole 'nother episode

**Brennan:** Okay

**Sam:** Speaking of misogyny, I do have something I wanna bring up, 'cause it's kind of like a weird thing that happened after I saw *The Perfection*. I was in a meeting with a producer and he was like, "Oh hey, what did you think about *The Perfection*?" And I thought he was asking me because of queer horror, so I just started going on about how I think this is the beginning of an inevitable queer horror boom, because now we're seeing these progressive characters in a way where they're explicit and they *can live*, this is incredible. And I talked about it

**Michael:** They can have *sex* and they--

**Sam:** *Yes!* And then he goes, "*Oh*. I didn't even think about this as a queer horror film." *Now*, unpacking that--

**Nay:** Kind of love (laughs)

**Michael:** The audacity?

**Sam:** Well, part of me really digs that. The other part of me is like, "If this was two dudes, there's no way this straight man would feel this way."

**Nay:** Right. Of course

**Brennan:** True

**Nay:** That's true

**Sam:** But because it's presented as palatable, which is good, and for the benefit of *everything*, and this movement, I'm here for it. But I am just saying it's interesting that a lot of the straight men I've talked to *do not* see it as a queer horror film

**Michael:** It bugs me because they think that it was made for them

**Sam:** Exactly

**Michael:** Well, yeah

**Brennan:** Well, the thing is, I don't *know* if this movie is *for* straight people. 'Cause a lot of the reactions I've seen on Letterboxd *from* straight people? They do *not* get it

**Michael:** *I'm straight*? (chuckles)

**Brennan:** And obviously there are queer people-- obviously there are queer people who don't like it. That's totally fine. Michael--

**Michael:** I'm at a five or a six now, by the way, as we've been talking about this

**Brennan:** Okay!

**Nay:** You know those memes that are like, the brain explosion?

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** In a series?

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** I think it's like, for the ultimate brain explosion you have to be a woman that loves women for it to be, like, really think that the movie's a complete ten. I could be wrong

**Michael:** I'll go in with you on that

**Brennan:** But if we're looking at the people who are having the strongest reaction to it on Twitter, that tends to be the trend

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** But no, yeah, I think you need to have a toe in that kind of queering of cinema in order to fully embrace the movie

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Brennan:** Because a lot of the straight people that are reviewing it are like, (dismissively) "Oh, it's just like a Lifetime movie." And it's like, "Like that's a bad thing?"

**Nay:** Okay, *one*,.'scuse

**Michael:** Right?

**Nay:** *Two*, like I wish this was on Lifetime, I wish I saw women fucking in a Lifetime movie

**Sam:** *Yes!* Oh my God!

**Nay:** Third, the thing-- okay, I'm gonna put a pin in that

**Brennan:** Okay

**Nay:** (to Brennan) I interrupted you

**Brennan:** No, I think I was done, so go for it. Pull the pin out

**Michael:** Yeah, pull the pin out

**Brennan:** Blow us up

**Nay:** I… wait, did I lose it? Damn

**Sam:** I can jump in while you find it

**Nay:** Yeah, please

**Sam:** Because I have this quote that actually, it applies 'cause it's from Alexandra Heller. She wrote a book called *Rape and Revenge Films: A Critical Study*, and she did a review of the film that was very positive, but she *did* speak to this. She said, "It's far too rare to see male same-sex relationships presented as the foundations of neo-exploitation." This is line with a tweet I saw this week from Chris Peckover who was talking about, "Would a studio make a hundred-million dollar movie if…"

**Michael:** Yeah, saw that

**Sam:** "If two men had a kiss? Two of the protagonists." I mean, it begs the question--

**Michael:** Hundred-million dollar movie? When would a studio make a *fifteen-million* dollar movie?

**Sam:** Right. Why are we still neutering those characters? I'm still-- this is along the lines of, I always wanna embrace *everything* in me when I see something happening with queer horror. I wanna grab it and hug it--

**Nay:** *Right, right*

**Sam:** Shout it from the rooftops. But I also-- it's always with a little asterisk--

**Nay:** As it should be. Yeah

**Sam:** Which is like, "Hey. P.S. We still have work."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. "P.S. We have high standards. We'll accept it, 'cause we're thirsty, but we still have standards."

**Michael:** (laughing) Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, look, if you're crawling through a desert with no queer people around and you see one--

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** You see one

**Brennan:** And you're like, shoot, what's that lady's name in *Rebecca* (1940)? Mrs….

**Nay:** Mrs. Danvers?

**Michael:** Danvers

**Brennan:** Mrs. Danvers, yeah! Like you see her, you're gonna slurp that right up

**Nay:** Yeah. Well, her piss because that's the only thing she's offering you to drink

**Brennan:** You're right

**Nay:** Okay?

**Michael:** Yellow piss

**Nay:** Yeah. Yum yum!

**Brennan:** Whether or not it's problematic. And you know, anything from any time period about queer people tends to be problematic

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** *But you're gonna take it!*

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** That doesn't mean we can't push it forward

**Nay:** Right. If you're thirsty you'll drink the coconut LaCroix, but it's like, (as an annoyed white girl) "Not what you really want to drink."

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** You know what?

**Brennan:** That's most of what we cover. We're the coconut LaCroix podcast

**Nay:** Right. Right. But I remember

**Brennan:** Yeah, what was your pick?

**Nay:** You know, often we talked about a man making this and a male gaze-- we talked about it too with Jess Franco

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Okay, so a man makes this movie. Maybe they make it under the guise of, "I know men will like watching this," or whatever. But I think what's wonderful is that like, I still get to like it--

**Michael:** What they're making?

**Sam:** Yes

**Nay:** It's like, "Okay. Maybe you made this sex scene with men in mind, but guess what? It was fucking good." And it's like, I could direct a sex scene or I can enjoy a sex scene in a movie that was ultimately made for me for men to enjoy, but it's like I think it's so many queer women or like, yeah, so many queer women are afraid (sighs) I don't know if I can speak for all queer women. Of course I can't speak for all queer women. I think sometimes we're afraid to be like, "I liked that *because* it was made for men."

**Sam and Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Because we somehow think we are reenacting the male gaze and it's like, you know what? We can't even *do that*. We're not even capable of that. Because you know why? If I look at a woman and I think that she's hot, and like in my mind I think, "I wanna fuck that person," maybe guilt pops up at first 'cause I'm like, "Oh my God am I acting like a man?" And it's like, well, of course not! Because I'm not gonna kill this person when they turn me down

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** And that's what acting like a man is (laughs)

**Brennan:** And you're not a man

**Nay:** Right!

**Sam:** I identify with that

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Just in a sense of going back to rape and revenge. You said so much more eloquently what I was feeling, which is when I admit to liking it, it's not a guilt for the genre, it's like I don't want to--

**Nay:** Yeah. "I don't wanna like what you like."

**Sam:** Yes

**Nay:** "However, I can because I'm not a *dick*--" or you know, I'm not gonna assign body parts to being rude, but I'm not a bad person so it's like, "I can like that same scene that you like, because…."

**Brennan:** Also a lot of the things that we like, we like for different reasons because we're different *beings*

**Sam:** Like Courtney Cox's bangs in *Scream 3*

**Nay:** "Different people shower differently," you know?

**Michael:** Love those bangs!

**Brennan:** (sarcastically, to Sam) *Uh-huh*. I'm so glad we're talking about it again, thanks for coming on the show, Sam

**Sam:** I'll always be here to remind you

**Nay:** (sing-song) Maybe not *always*! (normal voice) After that

**Sam:** That was a nice run, thank you for having me

**Michael:** There is something a little annoying about that producer. 'Cause it's like, "Can't we just fuckin' have something?" You know what I mean?

**Nay:** Wait, what are you talking about?

**Michael:** The producer that didn't realize (*The Perfection*) was a queer horror film

**Nay:** Oh oh oh, yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** It's like, "C'mon," you know?

**Sam:** Well, I think it's cool that he at least, the interest is there, the conversation is opening. I don't think it was in a judgemental way, I think he was surprised that he hadn't seen it that way

**Michael:** *Nah!* I don't think he was malicious or anything, but at the same time, it's like, "Maybe straight guy, two women fucking isn't for you."

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Like this *isn't* about straight men. It's about two lesbians

**Sam:** The compliment that I get that I hate the fucking most--

**Brennan:** Oh no

**Sam:** On my last… I made this film called *The Quiet Room*, I talked about it on here. And in Q&As, inevitably at any straight festival they go, "Hey, I just wanna congratulate you on making a film that isn't about being gay. that just happens to have gay characters. It's *not a gay horror film*, *it's just a horror film*." And it's like, okay, *parts* of those I agree with. Like, "Yes, I did make a film that's not about gay identity. But it *is* a queer horror film, and I own it. And it doesn't feel like a knock to me to embrace that."

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** It literally stars drag queens

**Sam:** I think what straight people ars just trying to say is, "Thank you for making something accessible that didn't scare me off." I get it. And I wanna hug you and help you shape that sentence better for the next guy so it doesn't sound so offensive

**Nay:** Yeah. I mean, I think my initial reaction of like, "Oh, I love that," is because I would like to be a lesbian that can walk by a straight man and him not notice me. I'm like, "Yeah, sure. Good. *Don't* notice me." But it also kinda reminds me of when someone says, "Oh, I didn't notice that person was Black," or whatever and I'm like, "Fuck you. Yes you did."

**Michael:** I know, right?

**Sam:** "I'm colorblind."

**Nay:** It's also *okay* to notice and being colorblind is some fucked-up stupid shit that none of us need to do

**Michael:** Well, isn't "seeing color" quote-unquote, "not seeing color" part of the reason why we have under-representation?

**Nay:** I'm like, "Have fun being white. You're the only people who can say shit like that."

**Michael:** (laughing) *Right*

**Brennan:** Isn't the inherent problem at the core that in the sense that someone's like, when they're telling a story and they're like, "Oh, the person in this story was Asian," and they're like, "It matters," or whatever. The *problem* with the people who say, "Oh, I'm colorblind," is because that assumes that the *default* is white, right?

**Nay:** Exactly. Exactly

**Brennan:** So they never say, "Oh, I saw a white person walking down the street."

**Nay:** Yes

**Brennan:** Because you have to assume that person is white and straight and whatever--

**Nay:** Yep

**Brennan:** Unless they mention it. So, until everyone gets to be called what they are, that's why it's weird, right?

**Nay:** Yeah. Yeah

**Brennan:** Right, yeah?

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** Well, most people like that their default is to hire people that look like them, too

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** So that's why there's predominantly white people in everything, you know? Or predominantly *men* in everything. If men are doing the hiring, they're hiring other white men, y'know? So to say you don't see color? That's why you're only hiring other white people

**Nay:** And they most certainly do

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah. You see it the most

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** I can guarantee… (sighs) You know, it's hard to have those conversations with people who don't have a deeper understanding of white supremacy and how it infiltrates every single thing that we do or say, because I was having a conversation in the midwest last week and someone was saying, "Blacks," instead of, "Black people."

**Brennan:** *Ohhh*

**Nay:** And I was like, "You know, I don't really have the time to convince you that you should add people and take off the 's' to any ethnic group of people or anyone that you're talking about. Like, 'the gays'. I don't wanna hear any of that with an 's'." And they could not comprehend why that was offensive and I was like, "Listen. I don't have time to give you a history lesson, but what I can tell you is when I hear someone add an 's' to that, it signals to me some other things that they probably feel."

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Sam:** Yes

**Nay:** And… yeah

**Michael:** Yeah, you're not saying "the gays" usually with a positive connotation after saying it

**Nay:** Right. Yeah. Like, I just almost immediately know you're a dumbass if that's how you're (indistinct) y'know?

**Brennan:** Yeah! I mean, language is so tough. Like look, my boyfriend and I tend to reclaim that phrase, like, "*Oh, the gays*, they're at it again!"

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** Oh yeah!

**Brennan:** But it is always that thing of, "We can't *do that*"

**Sam:** We *get it, Brennan. You have a boyfriend*. Some of us are single!

**Brennan:** *Sorry*

**Nay:** (softly) We are

**Brennan:** Should I just call him by name? Would that be better? I feel like I assume that everyone in the room just doesn't really know who he is, so I just call him that. But I always feel like that lady in *Seinfeld* who's like, "My fiancee. Oh, my fiancee."

**Michael:** "I lost my fiancee!" "The baby"?

**Brennan:** I'll just call him Sergio from now on

**Sam:** I just think you should bring him up more

**Brennan:** Okay! I can do that

**Michael:** (giggles) Bitter Sam

**Sam:** (sadly) *Guys… **yeah***

**Brennan:** Also, I just wanna say, Theus and Jeffrey are maybe my two favorite characters in sound cinema, because they *do nothing*, but they're mentioned all the time!

**Sam:** *Oh*

**Brennan:** Like the two other teachers--

**Michael:** Are those the two other teachers?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, no, 'cause Steven Webber's always like, "Theus! Jeffrey! Come here!" Or he's like, "Theus and Jeffrey don't approve," and they just kind of sit there very stern, like they're kind of, I dunno, these stone statues of like, the gods

**Michael:** I honestly thought they were gay men until--

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Jeffrey's definitely--

**Nay:** They still might be

**Michael:** Until about ninety or eighty minutes in, yeah. That's true

**Sam:** What do you think they're doing behind the curtain when they're waiting to be called?

**Nay:** Oh, definitely sucking--

**Michael:** Just bitching

**Brennan:** Tic-tac-toe?

**Nay:** Just suckin' each other off

**Sam:** *For sure*

**Nay:** For sure

**Michael:** And they're just bitching about Steven Webber?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** What was Steven Webber's character's name?

**Brennan:** *Oh, God*

**Nay:** I dunno

**Michael:** Like Artemis or something?

**Nay:** Backoff? Bockoff?

**Brennan:** Yeah, that was the name of the academy, the Backoff Academy

**Sam:** Oh God

**Brennan:** That's pure exploitation

**Michael:** The outside shot of that was beautiful, with the snow

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** Also, when do you think Steven Webber was at his peak? When would you, like, when would you?

**Michael:** Like, when would i?

**Nay:** When would you say he's at his peak?

**Brennan:** Yeah. Sorry, Ernie was doing a twisting motion to talk about the microphone but I thought he was indicating a terrible handjob

**Michael:** I think I liked Steven Webber most when he was on *Brothers and Sisters*

**Brennan:** *Ohhh*. I would say *Single White Female*, probably

**Michael:** *Oh God*, I forgot about that! Yeah, yeah. I'd Hedy that

**Brennan:** Also, not in terms of corkscrew handjob, but he's so good in his episode of *Party Down*. He's *so funny*

**Michael:** He's a good comedic actor

**Brennan:** Yeah. Anyway

**Michael:** He's in like, everything

**Brennan:** He was in *Wings*, right?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** *Oh my God*

**Michael:** He was the rambunctious little--

**Sam:** Wasn't he in *The Shining* remake?

**Brennan:** He was!

**Michael:** The what remake?

**Sam:** That would be mine. *The Shining* remake, where the bad CGI animals come to life

**Michael:** He's hot in that, yeah. He's good lookin'!

**Brennan:** *Oh God*, that scene scared me so much in the book

**Michael:** You get to see fuzzy Webber dong, I was into that

**Brennan:** Fuzzy?

**Sam:** Who doesn't love fuzzy dong?

**Michael:** Fuzzy, like, the graphics

**Brennan:** Oh, okay!

**Sam:** (To Nay) I looked right at you

**Nay:** Who *doesn't* like fuzzy dong?

**Sam:** I know, I know

**Nay:** I mean, I could be down for a fuzzy dong as long as it's on a woman, y'know what I mean? She has it?

**Brennan:** Well, would that cause problems? Like the texture of that doesn't feel right to me. Does that work?

**Nay:** What? A hairy dick?

**Brennan:** Yeah, like full felt

**Michael:** I think you're taking "fuzzy" too literally. Fuzzy visual is what I was meaning

**Brennan:** If there's like a felt dildo, I wouldn't know how that--

**Nay:** Well, I've never fucked a felt dildo, but--

**Brennan:** Yeah, no, I--

**Michael:** I'd be interested

**Brennan:** Please report back

**Sam:** What I can tell you as someone who regularly fucks felt dildos, it's okay. It's tough with lube

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Michael:** It'd have to be filled with like, a pipe or something

**Sam:** You have to throw it out after

**Brennan:** Like a jelly donut?

**Michael:** Yeah, it couldn't just be all felt

**Nay:** I just feel like that's not the exfoliation I need

**Brennan:** That's what I'm thinking!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** I feel like it would--

**Nay:** It would hold lots of germs

**Brennan:** There are a lot of crevices involved

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** (chuckling) *That's* the Pride float

**Brennan:** Anyway

**Michael:** Brian just bought all this felt stuff because there's this artist in L.A.; well, she's from England but she came to L.A. and did this exhibit where she literally made an entire grocery store out of felt

**Brennan:** *Oooh!*

**Michael:** And it was like, grocery store sized, so all the products were made out of felt. And like, Cheerio boxes made out of felt, like all this stuff. So we have a bunch of those tiny things lying around our apartment

**Nay:** See, this is everyone's lesson to shoot their shot. If you're an artist, make your art. Okay? Just go do it

**Michael:** She *literally is making so much* money now

**Nay:** Mmm-hmmm. Exactly

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Go do it. Just like I said, find you a *wild-ass* white woman, okay? Borrow some of that audacity and *run* with it. You wanna make a fuckin' fake Cheerio box, you fuckin' do it

**Michael:** I have a felt Pepsi can

**Nay:** (laughing) It sounds dope!

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** It's actually pretty great

**Nay:** Yeah, I'm not hating, I'm saying shoot your shot

**Michael:** The next time you come over, I'll show you it

**Nay:** Okay

**Michael:** And my friends bought a private piece from her, and it's literally every color you can think of of Heinz ketchup bottles

**Nay:** *Cool*

**Brennan:** Whoa

**Michael:** Yeah. Isn't that cool?

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I don't know why I brought that up

**Brennan:** It's interesting! I'm glad you did!

**Michael:** Oh, because we did felt dildos

**Nay:** Okay, that's right

**Brennan:** Yeah, back to that

**Sam:** (to Brennan) Did you do a Pride float?

**Brennan:** Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah

**Michael:** Unanimous Pride float

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** It also gets a party, I think

**Michael:** Well, yeah

**Nay:** A concert, a symphony

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** Oh yeah

**Nay:** Yeah. All the lesbian cellists of the world

**Brennan:** Unite

**Nay:** Unite. (chuckling) They all have to play

**Michael:** There's like bows everywhere and stuff. Wigs

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. Wigs, fingers. Finger, not peepholes, what are those called?

**Brennan:** Frets?

**Nay:** No no no. Uh, *gloryholes*!

**Brennan:** *Oh!* Where you just stick your fingers through?

**Michael:** Mmmm, finger gloryholes?

**Nay:** Finger gloryholes

**Brennan:** Oooh, I love that

**Michael:** Then you stick your fingers into some kind of Jello mold of her puke

**Nay:** Finger gloryholes? That sounds so *hot*. (To Michael, disgusted) Okay.

**Brennan:** Wait, *what?*

**Michael:** Jello mold of her puke, yeah

**Brennan:** Just full of worms?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Or some people are into the real puke

**Michael:** Yeah! And shit (giggles)

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah! I think that's true

**Nay:** Whatever you want, yeah

**Sam:** Could I jump in and tell you guys about something very important?

**Brennan:** Oh!

**Michael:** *No* (chuckles)

**Brennan:** No

**Sam:** Well, I mean as much as that was

**Brennan:** Can we talk about puke some more first? (chuckles)

**Brennan:** I'll be (on vacation) with my boyfriend

**Sam:** (scoffs)

**Nay:** (mock annoyed) *Okay*

**Brennan:** But you guys have fun!

**Michael:** Sargee-oh?

**Nay:** Fine

**Brennan:** Sergio (laughing, to Michael) I know you grew up in Ohio, but you can say his name

**Michael:** I said it wrong on purpose

**Brennan:** Oh my God. When (Sergio and I) went to Cincinnati--

**Michael:** Wow, I'm sorry

**Brennan:** I know. Not a single person at any restaurant or Starbucks or whatever could pronounce "Sergio". And I was just like, "I guess Spanish hasn't gotten to you, yet!"

**Michael:** *Yeah*, Cincinnati's something else

**Brennan:** It's so trippy!

**Nay:** You gotta go to Illinois

**(After promoting the *Sleepaway Camp 2 live show)***

**Michael:** Brian's going

**Nay:** Mmmkay

**Michael:** *My* boyfriend

**Brennan:** Sergio's going

**Nay:** Should I bring my Hitachi 'cause that's my girlfriend

**Brennan:** Yes please

**Nay:** Everybody else bringin' somebody

**Michael:** Felt dilds? (giggles)

**Brennan:** And that is that

**Michael:** You're beautiful

**Brennan:** My classic catchphrase to end the show. Goodbye!

## **Previous Episode**

Episode 36: “I Love Evil Women” (w/ Annie Rose Malamet!)