Episode 137 - Shēma

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[Music] hey everybody michael gunger here welcome to the liturgist podcast actually today it's not the liturgist podcast we're doing a little special bonus episode here for you guys that comes from the alien podcast which is a podcast that we do for our patrons for the liturgics community where i interview you know guests sometimes it's william sometimes it's hillary jamie lee finch is a regular i did one with my daughter amelie recently there's people in my life who i speak to from the place of me being an alien to this human civilization so we talk about weird random things and uh they're usually really fun and this one was just done yesterday and thought we would um just give you a little sneak peek into what this alien podcast is like and uh there's plenty more like this if you become a patron if you join the liturgist community there's this podcast there are meditations there are special events um all sorts of goodies and conversations the sunday thing which is this weekly zoom meeting that we all do together uh super fun if you're interested in being a part of the liturgist community go to the liturgists.com and click join us and we would love to have you around assuming that you are you know an interesting good-hearted person [Laughter] uh which this community is full of amazing people people with all sorts of approaches to life and spirituality and it's fantastic um so this is a very silly conversation that happened with jamie there's more cussing and you know not children appropriate things on this podcast than there normally is on the liturgist podcast just a word of warning anyways we'll jump into it hope you enjoy this episode of the alien and the sex okay it's happening okay we did it oh my god are you seeing are you seeing things register like waves in your red yep particles and waves in fact particles and waves collapsing into experienced reality well if i was seeing that i think i would probably have a few substances in my system which i don't at the moment except just caffeine you've got substances they're just not maybe the the craziest of the ones that you've tried that is that's true that's true i have potatoes in my body at the moment and i have coffee um oh this chat is getting lively already i like these wait did you ask people for a word or a phrase okay yeah so some of the ideas we had here were tootsie rolls cabbage poison oak hive mind avatar streaming concerts midnight gospel well have you watched william made you watch i have watched um i love midnight gospel have you watched it did you say yes uh yes and i have and yes um oh someone's someone's unmuted someone in there um i have watched it and i have exclusively watched it while high and that is a great idea in fact i don't really know what the experience would be like to watch it while not high um and it's really good it's also a lot it's still great it's a little overwhelming yeah it's it is it is um lemons larynx multiverse ooh so i was real dumb a couple days ago we went to the um to big sur and we're hiking and uh i climbed up this rock i put it on my instagram did you put yeah you said i missed california and you it was both yes and me look at that how why did i reject that part of the set yeah why did you forget that one what is that about no no i have some theories do you what are they let's go there that's more interesting no i want you i want you to finish the story i'm willing to tell you this shit about yourself at any time you should finish that story i just climbed up this rock and it didn't look that bad from the one side of it and but then when i stood up there it was windy and there was nothing in front of me like it would have been so easy just to and emily was up there with me and she goes as we were climbing down she's like in a lot of multiverses you're not climbing back down yeah you're dead you're gone you're definitely dead now and it was a have you ever had one of those experiences you're like afterward the feeling afterwards like wow i'm really lucky to be alive it's a that's a yeah michael i'm a woman uh so most times that i'm just existing out there i barely make it really technically actually you feel like you almost in fact i was talking well okay maybe not a lot but i am taking i'm taking risks often just by you know being around but i actually had this conversation with well this is the first time i'm going to be using this term buckle up everybody with my boyfriend last night um whoa i was telling him about how ah i was you know you you've known you've known this saga for quite some time um i didn't we'll talk about i didn't know that i was a boyfriend now that's graduated as of last night it has graduated into term it's in the realm of terminology um yes so anyway um we actually had this discussion last night or among other things that we were discussing um how my in throughout most of my 20s there were many decisions that i made and many things that i said yes to that when i look back now i'm like that shouldn't have gone as well as it did um so yeah and most of them happened when i was living in new york city which you could probably expect that there are things that you say yes to when you're living in new york city when you're 20 years old that maybe could have gone a lot worse than they ended up going like when you walked the line lines between the towers the like oh yeah yeah when i was when i tight right i woke between the twin towers in 2009 sure it's a really dated joke yeah because they weren't they weren't there in 2009 when i lived there there's layers to it this doesn't work michael yeah exactly my uh yeah my brain is still waking up it's slow uh okay so what's your theory on why i rejected that first part of or that i forgot the first part of your comment that you said you missed me i knew you filed that away um i mean well what do you think my theory is about it why do you think that you did that i didn't think about it but i'm imagining that it feels like a little um vulnerable or a little uh needy or what is it i don't know i'm trying to i'm trying to put my finger on it like why would i be like yeah i remember when you left that comment that you missed me in california it felt it felt more vulnerable for some reason i mean it's pretty it's pretty human yeah to not acknowledge what no i mean it's a pretty human thing to acknowledge it to acknowledge someone oh so you're just saying it's because i'm not a human being well i mean the amount of people who have their cameras on and what their faces did when you just said that was amazing just a whole like well yeah sydney just said it in the chat this is the alien podcast you you told us what to expect here i did it's right in the right in the liner notes uh or the title the liner notes the cd-rom of this conversation that we're listening to um i'm living today in 1999 apparently how's it feel what was life like for you in 1999 oh uh well we were preparing for the apocalypse as were a lot of other evangelical families for the but for the millennium y2k yeah i well how extreme would you go well we weren't super extreme of course my mother wanted to be more extreme with it um my dad wouldn't really let her which ultimately was pretty wise um but uh so we didn't like have a build like a bomb shelter or like hoard canned goods or anything uh but because we didn't do that that might have actually made things better because we didn't take those precautions my mother was just like in a tizzy all the time about the fact that we weren't taking those precautions and was just like it's gonna get so bad also she was reading the left behind books at the time so she was kind of converging the whole like oh no this is all gonna happen and it's all gonna happen now because that made sense anyway so those a few months before uh new year's were pretty stressful christmas that year i don't have much of a memory of but if i were to guess it probably was not a good time i was in fifth grade sixth grade fifth grade i was in fifth grade wow what were you doing on ytk i was at resurrection life church um oh ringing in the new year for the lord in the new year for the lord were you guys doing one of those telling the lord no matter where it's the stroke of midnight the stroke of midnight everyone just like lifts their hands yes he's coming well i was in a tree um i had i had climbed a tree in my front yard um because i did i don't know what i wanted or didn't want what i thought i was avoiding or going after but i for some reason i was like maybe i thought like when the apocalypse occurs and jesus comes back and it's y2k all at the same time like my mother was thinking maybe like the floor would turn to lava and i was like i don't know i gotta like get up there and get like i don't know what i was thinking i just knew i wanted to be in a tree so i climbed yeah rap are you a rapture baby oh yeah well that's the thing as i saw it was all gonna happen like um yeah tim said i'm pretty i was pretty sure the rapture was happening new year's day into 2020 or 2000. that's what my mom thought too um so i don't know i guess it says something that in those final moments i didn't want to be near my family and i wanted to be alone in a tree i don't know did did you did you ever um want the rapture to wait until you could have sex with someone yes of course of course yeah is that everyone was everyone everybody thought that i was a kid i'm sure [Laughter] i'm sure because at the very least i mean you don't even know if you're gonna enjoy it yet or not like you don't even know if you're like you actually are sexual maybe you're asexual but it's the mystery it's the fact that it's like the one thing you can't have until you're married and you're like well i'm 11. so i can't get married anytime soon so jesus could wait until there's a ring on my finger and i could just try it out i just want to see i just want to see how this goes yeah that was it that was it and you don't have a ring on your finger yet so still i assume you haven't oh yeah no i'm no i've never had sex definitely not this morning [Laughter] oh that's why you have such a glow about you no that's because i just have stopped wearing makeup for two and a half months so that's that glow yeah you all know what i'm talking about really the ladies here know what's up yeah that's like i just have i just don't put chemicals in my face anymore it helps and this is i my bangs are too long to care about straightening my hair anymore so this is what my hair looks like when it's air dried so like we're just i think you've seen them these days alien in the sex switch conversation oh has it been the case every time you notice i don't i don't say that sorry tanner i i don't i don't say that i don't go hey jamie i'm sorry this is what my air my hair looks like when it's air dried well that is what your hair looks like when it's air dried it is this is what it looks like no it's not even air dry this is what it looks like when you sleep in a bed and then you walk back to the back house and turn on a camera when you sleep in a bed yeah that's it and you don't even you haven't even looked at yourself even i'm just only seeing myself in a thumb nail right now so i still haven't really seen what's going on it might be better that way just you'll be fine have you ever have you ever thought at any point and this is not me saying you should do this don't read into what i'm about to say have you ever thought at all i love front loading because it makes you nervous um have you ever thought about shaving your head i'm not saying you should i'm just curious you did when did you do that yeah right before lucy was born did you feel so free you know what felt great was head rubs oh yeah i can believe that it's so good all the like the feelings on the head real good have you ever shaved your head no i haven't but audrey just did and so i don't know i saw it how's she liking it oh she loves it and it looks so great on her we had a uh fire pit socially distanced hang uh sunday night and it was my first time seeing it in person and it looks amazing people with glasses can like pull it off extra well too because there's like there's an accessory on your face you don't need glasses to pull up but there's like something else you know something else there so i don't know i mean there's a lot of this here and i do uh i i have a manifestation of ocd and anxiety called trichotillomania so i pull my hair out so there's like spots i mean i mean it's not worth trying to angle my head this way but there are spots where i have like bald tiny bald spots i have so much hair i can cover it um but when i'm like highly stressed like when i was writing my book you would not believe the amount of hair i pulled out from my head so i've saw it it's like um it's a there's no cure for it necessarily beyond just like managing anxiety but they do say that and folks with trichotillomania pull out from various different places like i know some people who they pull their eyebrows out or eyelashes or whatever mine's nothing but just the hair i'm ahead and i've heard it said that you can help yourself out in unlearning that behavior by shaving your head um and then the period of time that you know you just break the habit you just it doesn't come back but i don't know who knows you can also wear hats i've tried i mean i wear i wear hats sometimes trying to keep themselves trichotillomania trichotillomania i don't know have you ever have you ever noticed my bald spots when i've been at your house i'm on the very back of my head yeah that's what it is it's when i get stressed and then because then when it grows back it's like kind of itchy and a little bit prickly and so it kind of it facilitates you wanting to pull it again because it feels uncomfortable um i mean that's my dad has a lot of it's a lot of it's gone and a lot of it left very early so uh you know he also went gray very early so that could i mean i could just decide to jump out of my head instead of waiting for me to pull it at some point who knows yeah road game for women at that point once the use if it wants to leave i'll just let it go [Music] david did did you ever i probably not did you ever see the bald and woke website that we designed for a little while there bald and woke my brother david is bald uh sometimes has like a fake social justice campaign about being bald just specifically being bald that's it that's like that's the thing that you do like baldism like we made a website together that's like real serious about baldism can you explain the principles of baldism to me i don't know dave's got like a whole bit about it but like there's a picture on the front page of a bald guy um and it says the caption excuse me my eyes are down here [Laughter] excuse me ma'am my eyes are down here yeah i've heard that framed with like the beards where it's like excuse me man my eyes are up here like from the you know which is real beards are nice to look at so we're heads i don't know people are just nice to look at humans are great to look at that's positive of you do you disagree no i don't i don't i just i hear a lot of people that kind of generally talk shit about humans like when we're like people are shitty not alone people are shitty see no but yeah i mean no we just are and and also we're not it's just it's just both things i see what you're getting so even shitty people are nice to look at sometimes but even your your feeling that people are shitty and people's feeling that people are shitty is because you have such a high love of humanity that when it falls short of what you want them to be you know what you wouldn't say trees are shitty right well they don't do much to deserve that people do some things no like people do things sometimes trees do cut trees fall on people it's not their fault it's our friends what i'm saying is you're in the in the thing if you're a tree with an ego you'd be like fucking trees these trees grow in their branches whichever way they feel like they want to be growing up please run around thinking they on the place fucking trees oh i i'm doing the people a tree with an ego would be like would be like we need to be not like growing over each other all the time look at this tree branch fucking going into him this tree's space look at that so rude yeah they're really willing to share aren't they they're like always trying to hug each other that's a that's a way to think about it that's cute right they're always like reaching for their pal like oh hey bud like just right there we don't do that i'm just saying i'm just saying if you backed up one click from humans you're an alien let's say you're an alien looking at human the human race let's say okay shall we say let's just imagine that that's happening yeah you could probably see in the same way that a tree is just being a tree when it's doing things that encroach upon other tree space or other lot life forms space they're like well it's just being a tree that all the things humans are doing are humans being humans they're like they're trying to be liked they're trying to get food and have sex and be okay and have sex before the rapture from within the human race we gotta be like this is not appropriate these are the ways the best ways to be human because we're trying to be good humans but you back up it's like oh that's what humans do yeah that's what ants do that's what cockroaches do that's what cancer does i mean it is but also are we we ha hmm okay well first of all i'd like to make note of the terrific pun that doug just threw into the chat saying this conversation has branched out well done uh second of all an acknowledgement of that well done sir um here's my question about that to cont to further branch out um do do trees have a choice to not be like trees and do people have a choice to not be like whatever you think people like we have choices to make certain decisions and not other decisions do trees have that same choice now we're talking jamie now we're now we're cooking with gas what do you think didn't we talk about free will before i have no idea i don't know i don't remember anything that we talk about once we're done all right you asked do people have the choice to act not like people what do you think about that question yeah well we determine what that means don't we like because that changes constantly and it's changing right now in various different places on the planet right right right i mean right wouldn't you to say that wouldn't you have to to pre-define what a person does to be able to i guess you would have to so how would we do that michael considering you're the person that a minute ago was like well people are just being people how are people what do we do we have a wide a wide array of behaviors thoughts actions feelings it's quite it's quite broad and everything that any humans ever done said thought is what the definition of what humans have done [Laughter] that's true that's correct and if you do something new and novel then you're expanding the definition of what human means so you just throw it into the buffet which oh have you seen devs have you seen what's that on the on the comments devs devs what's that oh my god what is it show on hulu okay that's like my favorite show that i've seen in a long time why haven't you told me about it i just did wow so good and i can't say why the why it's related to this conversation but anyone who watched devs i hope that you heard that i hope that you heard d-e-v-z s d-v-z-s that's not correct oh it's elon musk's baby okay cool great what's that baby's name again i don't know it's not real do you what did you feel when you saw that baby's name i felt uncomfortable did you yeah it's just lines and shapes oh my god yeah that was your language you were deeply familiar with that i was i think that they um changed the baby's name i don't know what the baby's gender is like so and i don't want to say it but i think they changed their name yeah okay someone just typed it in the chat that that's the name but i it's xaia12 right stands for kyle [Laughter] well done frederick that's just perfect that was so good it's like the most basic name that you throw all these numbers and symbols oh no it's kyle oh that's good man so is there anything else you wanted to say about the free will situation oh what if i said no what if i really thought my answer was like no i've got nothing else to say no other thoughts about the concept of free will all together i'm i'm empty well his render i am out yeah i've got plenty i don't know okay what do you got what do you got for what do i got um and for the for the people and the zoo i love that leah just waved when you said before the people she's like hey like me i'm here that's great um i mean i don't i don't i don't know um how much of what we do do we do just because we've decided that that's what we do and are there ever actually any original okay so someone in the chat said something uh a minute ago if i start running around ryan said if i start running around barking like a dog am i acting like a human that's a great fucking question because are you acting like a dog or are you acting like a human acting like a dog humans act like dogs humans act like humans who act like dogs yeah well it's like a parrot who acts like a human yeah speaking and then sometimes we can act like a parrot acting like a human but that's that's a that's a key characteristic of parrots is that they do that is it one of ours too to mimic sounds we do that one of the key human characteristics is yeah we abstract the world into thought and then we can like create new worlds of imagination including those worlds in which we are dogs yes sure okay it's very human it's very human it is human that's correct if i act like a parent acting like a human i'm acting like a human yes you are that's what's interesting you're just acting like you're so super human it's super cute like a parent acting like a human do you mean like that's really human like that's super human or like super human no i meant like really like because i'm not aware of any other species that would go with the double double abstraction i'm a parent do you see leah's comment acting like what if i act like a human acting like a parrot acting like a human actually like a parrot acting like a human acting like a dog leah can we put you on the screen can you unmute yourself and just do that for a second can you be a human acting like a parent i feel like a human acting like you're like a human acting like a dog it would just ultimately be woof that's it because everyone else all the previous things are imitating that core thing she's right god damn it she's right wow this is leah for the win um good job nobody that's not on the live call is going to be able to to hear what leah just did this is what you know i'm sorry oh uh sometimes well everyone else happened leah leah just barked like a dog there you go now it's like 1920s radio because you just explained something like a dog because it says she said woof dogs sometimes sound like that but i feel like there would be a lot of um of what is the what is the word i'm looking for uh fidelity lost in the different acting likes you know yeah yes at the beginning you might have oh that's pretty good that was a really good one i'm really good at imitating my not just my cat's meows but like an authentic cat meow we'll do it gosh it's pressure what did you think was gonna happen i know i thought about that halfway through and i was like you gotta be ready um i feel like i'm not gonna be able to do it it might take me a few tries to find it because it's not just like a meow it's like in the throat for up to six minutes wow generous thank you up to six minutes while you well okay after six minutes i'm not i'll be like let's talk about something almost as nervous as i felt to do that stupid fucking speaking in tongues last time i wiped that from my brain by the way until this moment where my body's like oh i remember this that was terrifying so i guess this is better to me okay meow i'm gonna try it no no wait there is a crack oh yeah that was good nope i smoked weed last night my throat is a little off i'm gonna keep doing this you have sex and drugs within your last 12 hours yeah of your body look at you yeah living your life who am i to you what are you sex witch what do you think i'm doing with all of my free time during quarantine still you say yeah they're not going anywhere they're gonna stay there where else would they go [Laughter] oh okay that wasn't my best meal christians were right about you jamie lee finch yeah the whole time still are completely correct although i did dance i did listen i had a hankering the other night and i just went with it because i was like when my body asked for something i'll just i'll just see i'll just give it to her see what happens i dance to i need to be very careful about what i say next i did not dance to bethel for an hour and a half i danced to every song william wrote slash recorded with bethel because i started listening to william's stuff look and then i was like let's do it i was worshiping let me tell you like what my body was doing is what my body remembers doing when i was in all those charismatic spaces it felt good it felt great i was imagining you and lisa and william and audrey with me while i was doing it by the way so here's what i think at some point when all this mess is over and we can be in the same room together we should have like um a faux worship service with each other because well okay good point so just a worship service great point great point be so about it let's do it let's really let's really fuck with them i don't know who they are that we're fucking with but them let's do it it was so good it felt so good and it helped me realize that i was like oh what i'm doing right now to connect me with me and connect with my body is what i was doing then and what i've been doing my whole life like leading worship in a charismatic you know christian cult was the same thing i was doing when i was like 23 and my friend doug ran these um he's a dj and he ran these uh bi-weekly dance party like indie pop electro dance parties called london calling and so i would go to them this is in st louis i'd go to them and they'd start at like 11 p.m 11 30 and you'd like dance until like 2 30 in the morning and i would i mean it's the same thing i was doing the same thing there and trying to like feel the same way and connect with all the same things that i was doing when i was like leading worship in a cult those good feelings there's good feelings in those worship services sometimes like feelings of open heart yeah feelings of surrender feelings of connected to your source that i still fucking love yeah me too and um [Music] so yeah i'll have a worship service with you anytime okay great we were just talking about this lisa and i were just talking about this like i was like do you think you've got enough distance from it now that you could make like a worship record yeah she was like she thought yes but i pushed her and i didn't i don't i was like you think you could just sing like he god stuff the whole time no that part would have to change yeah that's exactly how i feel this is the thought i had when i was dancing i was like i could do this i could totally do this like i could have that service i could you know sing on that album i could do i never wrote just change a pronoun here and then but i'd have to do that yeah for sure about some blood what about the blood would you sing about the blood i i would change what i mean by the blood would you be like jesus i'm so happy you were executed leah knew leah you're on it today she saw that look on my face she's like menstrual blood nailed it nailed it and you make a christian worship music but infuse it with hindu deities yes last night this you could also infuse it this is what we were saying last night we're going shima the shima is a new deity we made up [Music] three-part harmonies oh hell yeah those are those are deities we just made up but let's do it we were in there we were it felt it felt worshipful of yeah shima's a good name you are reaching to and from the same place when you're singing that's what i was that's how i felt when i was dancing and i was like totally comfortable it was late at night so i wanted to sing really loud but i haven't i have neighbors i'm gonna live in an apartment and they're ti they're tired of hearing me when i'm having sex enough at this point and also uh beating up on my punching bag so i decided that singing the name of jesus really loudly yeah probably if they think both are sexy they probably they probably think it's all who knows at this point but i was like they don't need to hear me like you know praising the name of the lord at 11 30 at night but i felt like ready to that i was like i could totally sing this about the idea of the name of jesus but i don't feel any specific way about him it as a theological concept i don't but we we had um before do you do you like well so yeah what do you think about shima they're they're talking in the comments oh she sounds great she gave them [Laughter] god twitter's gonna love this oh my god that should be my twitter bio do it do it do it do it do it twitter and i have been getting along you guys are on really good terms things are going well this is going so well i think you guys need therapy you've had you need to learn how to successfully communicate with one another you're in a rough patch did you see how many comments on that last tweet that i sent about the universe oh heaven uh i didn't see how many because when i scrolled through a few of them i was like oh this is going to be the same thing over and over i have things to do so i'm not going to read all these because it's just a bunch of mad calvinists but like that's old news it's more fun they're kind of some of the most fun people too yeah yep to stir up a little bit oh yeah of course they are i'm sorry that's naughty of me but they really they they really come with some some of their friends are pretty good pretty good oh tanner just gave us the count 391 comments 391 comments that's a lot of comments that's a big number you know i'm just facilitating conversation well done sir i mean that's one way to look at it i'm just facilitating conversations conversation can possibly be facilitated in the giant dumpster fire that is twitter fuck that place you cannot actually have conversations there which is why i've largely stopped i just have you yeah i've i mean i've gone so part of this very infrequently now so part of what has been helpful is that matt my boyfriend uh has zero social media so at all so first of all y'all can't find it you want to say it again your boyfriend do you want to like my boyfriend my boyfriend feels good and strange i have a boyfriend that's not a thing that's ever come out of my mouth before um literally ever uh what yeah oh man people don't no my boyfriend people don't no date me michael that's not a thing that's happened to me and what is the last guy well the last relationship i was in i won't get into all the reason that wasn't boyfriend no that was your partner oh my gosh she was like 42 i refused to be called bully friend oh my god yeah i mean that was there were many red flags that i did not notice um so yeah that word this is your first time having a boyfriend yeah that's got to be the name of this outlet album what is wrong with me steve in the comments oh he was too mature to be a boyfriend yeah in his in his mind in his mind that's what he thought my friend was jesus ever your boyfriend you know no i did not jump on that train that i was not interested in that i never had a boyfriend no jamie i never i've never congratulated thank you and not even for like religious reasons it's just like well i wasn't the right kind of christian girl for christian boys to date so no one dated me and then when i left christianity i was like i'm not dating a man he wanted to be a man friend well he should have been a man first that might have been helpful [Applause] yeah that's good damn anyway matt doesn't have any social media so i i honestly because we don't we don't talk about it because he has no frame of i mean he unders he used to have twitter he used to have instagram but like he's not invested he hasn't been invested in those worlds for two years so it's like not a conversation topic so if something comes up like he can track with me if i'm like this thing happened or this conflict or something occurred but it we don't we just don't talk it just never comes up and so i will go that has kind of helped unfuck my brain from it a bit um also i'm creating officially tomorrow it's launching actually a membership space now that i'll be like posting and able to actually have like continual conversa like comments in the post and i can continually engage and there's full dialogue that can happen because i realized that in the last few years i've just like thrown a bunch of shit to like in the direction of twitter and like gotten very little back really um and i and i also have been trying to have conversations that involve like nuance and humanity and twitter is not the place it's not the place and like i need to stop trying to make it the place because it's not ever going to be the place so i just decided to go make a new place um so i'm just now have you i know this is what we all say now but have you ever like learned or gleaned good things from twitter oh some so much very often yeah i want to keep doing that so that's why that's why we said you know like most of it is is the dumpster fire but sometimes i think well because it is still valuable but like the the thing that i think is the largest problem with twitter is not that i don't it's not that i believe that it's it should all be thrown out because there's nothing to learn from it i've learned a lot but valid criticism becomes character assassination immediately when someone has a problem with a choice that someone makes or something someone says and i actually said this to someone i tweeted this to someone the other day where i literally i was like it's never not been that way like it happens immediately and it never doesn't happen and there's no way to keep that from happening so unfortunately what occurs is you have people who are trying to say express valid ideas or valid concerns or valid criticisms or are trying to communicate things that are valuable to communicate and then all these other people hop in and just really like and i hate this but like enjoy watching people lose stuff or suffer and people are projecting their pain and so there's like the valid criticism gets lost under all this noise of like just character assassination and assumption about people you don't actually know and then this like because you're connected to them in an online space you assume you get to hold them accountable which is a really weird fucking idea like i don't know you like how accountable are you actually to me if i don't know you and how successful can accountability be in a space where intimacy and nuance and conversation can't actually happen so i think again it's like it's like i see twitter's potential uh and yet i don't think its potential will ever be realized which makes me feel like it's a lot like my last abusive relationship is like i stayed for a long time because i see what you could be doing here and i see that potential in you and it's really valuable but you keep not living up to your potential and you keep choosing alternative shitty behavior and i just don't think it's possible for twitter to not be that way i would love for that to be true but i just think there's too many moving parts and pieces that like it just becomes i don't know just become so mean like it doesn't have to be that fucking mean and it just becomes super mean it becomes mean and i also have to deal with the fact that in my early days of using twitter a lot of people followed me because i was really mean to people like i loved that i like gained stuff from that and i don't my brain doesn't need it anymore like i don't need to like tear people down off of the platform i perceive them to be like a lot of people originally started following me because i was really mean to all the evangelicals they wanted someone to be mean to cool uh that sucks now that i think about it i'm like that's not i don't like i don't like thinking about that and i don't like doing it anymore so i just don't know yeah i just don't know how much how interested i am in continuing to contribute to the same level that i used to yeah and it can it can be what you said the other day about like you can just like come down to punctuation how somebody's reading a sentence yes that's why i'm like accountability can't happen here you don't know the person writing this so if someone uses a period instead of an exclamation point and you assume that sarcasm or you assume that's a tone that isn't actually there because you don't know that person you're suddenly inferring a lot that is not yours to infer about this person you don't know and that because of the machine and the way that machine turns where it's valid criticism to character assassination in like 0.08 seconds this is this is where like this stuff gets out of hand before we can contain it and before we can control it and it really could just be as simple as someone picked a word they thought meant something it didn't mean or someone like chose to use a punctuation mark that like made their tone sound different when you read it that's that's too risky that's too simple like that's way too risky for me to be willing to i don't know there's just there's so many there's so many variables i just don't want it to i don't want it to hold the same weight for me anymore or have the same amount of value like i don't want to give it my attention as much as i used to anymore just because i don't think that's good for me yeah i took a break from it whenever watch a couple weeks ago when i went up to the mountains and i came back and uh i was just feeling such this beautiful clear space and just opened it i mean this was when i had a lot of angry comments when i opened it but i just opened it and immediately could just i was just so present to like the the subtle energy in my body and i've been i've been meditating like the whole weekend and just kind of like in these silence so i was very tuned in to the energy of my own body and like it was so fast i could feel the energy kind of going yep it was like open oh what am i doing here um it is fascinating when you start to notice that you're like i was fine before i clicked a few buttons on this thing and now suddenly my heart rate shoots up and i feel like i'm fighting with someone like okay maybe i can set it down and walk away and maybe that's better yeah and to know but you've been through twitter hate storms and fights and stuff to you you know what it's like when there's like you know that there's a lot of human beings who are really angry at you or hate you or whatever or uh i just it kind of fucks with your nervous system a little it does actually andre and i talked about this a couple days ago um on the phone just like this weird phenomenon of like there are people out there that i don't know that because of their perception of me from a website will not be pleased unless i lose everything i have and everything i build fails yeah that's weird i don't feel that way about anybody anybody and andre was like andre was like and we both agree we're like even people real life people in our real lives who have abused us we don't feel that way about like people who have been actually cruel to us i would never want that one actually want that person deeply desire that person to lose everything but it's because people don't know andre people don't know me people don't know you based on what they've gathered from some tweets on a website they think they do and so there is this person also this is weird i think people think that this is another thing andre and i've talked about at one point we were talking he was like i think people think i'm rich he's like because i think that because he's like i do public work i have a public platform and i sell merch he's like i've encountered people who are under the impression that i'm like a wealthy individual and i'm like i've heard that too is it just like when your follower account goes up there's this assumption like that's a well because i think people think that's a currency and so they assume if you have a lot of this currency you must have a lot of the other currency that's not true that's super not true and it's really weird because then you know there's all this discourse about um wealth inequality and people rightfully so who are struggling or mad at people uh or upset or maybe feel some strong emotions towards people who are comfortable or wealthy or so like we're not but when people assume we are it maybe gives them subconsciously a little bit more of a license to like hate us because i don't know it's just there's a lot to this i don't i'm still figuring out um sydney said in the chat anonymity and distance allows all kinds of evil and i think that that is also part of it is you're not seeing someone face to face and so there's a lot that you say that i really don't think you would say to someone if you're not looking them in the way nobody would say any of this like you look through those 300 whatever comments no there's not one of those people that if i stood in an elevator with them would say that to my face yeah i agree with that i totally agree with that yeah but it's like we we disconnect thoughts from the really helpful evolutionary filters that thoughts have to go through to make them their way into the world yeah yeah we do because you know thoughts happen all the time thoughts crazy weird dark thoughts happen and most of us are able to be like well that was a weird thought and not not like manifest it into the world um and also we've kind of trained ourselves into being like sought type it out send like there's no like yeah the other day i was on a walk and so my cat has been frustrating the shit out of me i've had him for like five months and i love him so much but he won't stop destroying everything with his claws he also he was a stray for so long that he like is weird about like touch like you won't let me pick him up so like clipping his nails myself is like not an option and i've just tried everything i've tried sprays there are parts of walls in my apartment like certain parts of my apartment covered with aluminum foil it looks ridiculous because like cats won't scratch that but i'm like i can't fuck i can't cover my bed frame and all my furniture and foil like what i have to figure something else out so it says you should get those little cat claw covers well okay that so this is this is the thing i ultimately landed on that but the process i had was i i was like let's just research all options and look up what's here and so i researched decline and i had the thought where i was like well my i was on a walk and i was like i opened up twitter to be like hey folks like i'm trying to figure out my options for my cat like anyone who's declawed like what are your feelings what have you done so this kind of open question of like i wonder if i could source this information from twitter my next thought was if someone is really opposed to declawing and they think i'm about to decline my cat they could uh go from you know the valid criticism to character assassination real quick so i had this like reaction was like maybe i shouldn't put that on twitter because i don't want to be misunderstood and i don't want that to become a problem so then what i did instead is i just didn't say anything on twitter and i just kept researching and i made my own opinion and i decided that i'm not comfortable with decline because that feels too cruel so i came up with a plan and ultimately i was like cool it's fascinating right that was like yeah i just did it i just didn't ask twitter to give me one i just gave myself one and instead i was like well my cat's not gonna let me put those little claw covers on but i can make appointments i can buy them and make an appointment every month or six weeks because that's how long they last at a vet or a groomer and they can put them on and everybody wins check it out he's got him frederick's got him those guys they're so cute but i was resistant to them because my cat won't let me touch his paws but i was like oh there are people who can do this and are trained to do this all of this is to say i had i'm like un unfucking my brain from its commitment to like sourcing my my thoughts and opinions and ideas like by way of the committee that exists on this website and i just didn't type that into twitter and i just waited and i just kept thinking and i kept researching and i kept walking and eventually i figured it out myself good for you apparently i think that's what our brains always used to do before do it i don't know maybe maybe not but it felt good fun fucking unfucking your brain and fucking your body i mean yeah that's that's the move fuck your not wrong your face fuck fuck your body unfuck your brain okay well it's been really nice talking to you you too are we done already i mean we've been we've been over our time for a while but we i mean oh i thought we did this for an hour and a half not an hour wow an hour and a half i don't know if we've ever had it did i did i imagine half an hour it's a half an an hour no no i've got a block of an hour and a half on my schedule tanner tanner can you clear his face just in case maybe that's just in case it's like so fiery and we're like shima shima or just in case it takes us 15 to 20 fucking minutes to try and make technology work that ultimately doesn't work yeah that yeah but we could just be so deep into our shima chance we should just do an entire hour and a half alien and sex switch where we just shima chant or just do various different countries should we start a worship ban yep i'm pretty sure we already did 20 minutes ago when i first lobbed this idea out it's called steve said when he worked it's called the sex witch and this is this is a riveting episode of the prophet of shima and the sex witch oh that's real good if there was a ra if the record was called worship by the prophet of shima and this it's just called worship that's just i actually love that it's just i've wanted to make an album called worship for that's great few years now that's really good okay well i mean this is the thing when i when you were all energetically with me the other night when i was doing christian music wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait-wait-wait did michael libby smith do records called worship i'm sure he probably did someone someone's gonna look it up right now we'll have the answer in the chat momentarily american flag oh he would do that he would run around the stage with an american flag what like like a cape yeah okay that's a decision it's weird how much would it cost for you for the rest of 2020 to wear only american flag clothing depends on whether or not i this quarantine lifts and i leave my house no just right now you have to make the decision there's too many variables i can't that's hard uh how much would it cost i mean everything underwear socks shoes i mean millions millions yes i really don't want to do that millions is 30 000 right no that's not worth it 30 thousand dollars right in this moment i'm telling you it's not worth it for me to fully deck myself out in american flag paraphernalia for the rest of the year no 75 but no five figures is not going to do it you got to get six figures minimum and like high six figures i don't think you understand money doesn't matter enough to me for this to be worth it up to like above a certain amount it's got to be a lot like an absurd amount for me to consider doing something that insufferable yeah elliot says how much student debt do i have great question i'll get back to you on a number pay off all my debt that's it no i still wouldn't do it i can't that's too much the people the the people that would talk to me and then the people that wouldn't talk to me that's the opposite of what i would want to happen if i was always wearing american flags that's a lot to deal with would you rather shave the donut the bald man donut in your head just the top dome keep the sides long or rest of the year or the american apparel i think i'd rather shave my head because then i can wear a hat and then if you can't see the top and i'm always wearing some kind of hat that was a baldus test and you i passed you passed oh tight the fire tough haircut yeah that's good that's really good yeah no i do i do the hair for sure yeah we've got it we've got a number of baldfill folks on this call right now there you go thank you bald is beautiful bald is beautiful uh wait what's your answer to that american wait what's your number yeah for to wear nothing but a mix you you fuck with people like that though i've seen the way you already dress when you go out in public like it's not i mean look at my pants uh yeah those are tighter than the pants i'm used to seeing you in unless i'm seeing them wrong wait what are those what material are those oh no i've seen those i know those you've seen these i've seen this yeah um all american clothes for the rest of 2020 i mean if you said 50 i'd say yes she said 30. i'd start wondering i probably would do it i'd start wondering i'd probably do it for 30. okay what would you what would make that worth it what would you spend the money on american clothing more more american flag clothing you get to buy all your feed my habits yeah i spent it all custom american flag underwear expensive these leather chaps were i mean those were crazy actually we need to get you some of those gun that's the way to do it if you're gonna do it you gotta go crazy with it yeah you do see but you would make that shit like performance art for a year of your life like you would do this for that reason i can't i could i that's not i couldn't do it it would be difficult i would imagine to do your sessions with people well most of the time it's not visual so that part's not a problem but it would be difficult for people to trust me enough to be like a space holder for them to it might actually yeah it might actually help me it would help you i think it would help you it would like because my line of work is not as not as serious i i love everything about that sentence um that's great he finally admits it jesus christ even like in an awakening session if i showed up with like all american clothes flag clothes and a like a hat with like a spinny oh one of those works oh i wear one of those for you yeah it does work for you well all you i mean not all i'm not this is what i'm saying that was about to come across as if i'm like downplaying what you do in those awakening sessions which is not what i'm doing but there's a lot of eye contact and like not a lot of like or not as much verbalizing as in like my client sessions um yeah so i think it'd be fine you do i do but but the whole thing is like aimed at helping people let go of what they think reality is so a spinner hat that helps actually like that actually helps yeah that's good yep like we're taking this real seriously right now and the more serious i am the more perfect it would be that's very true god that would be good you could run you could run some tests on that like how weird your outfit is in those sections how successful they go oh that's interesting but i would i just don't like the aesthetic of the american flag yeah that's what's really holding me back from it that's not the absurdity that's what's holding you back i just don't like how that looks it's not a good look yeah what do you what do you think you're saying right now do you think this is like a yes that's correct it's a ridiculous idea to any like let's say it's the uh chinese flag that's kind of pretty yeah it's kind of pretty i do like that one that's true but it's still a level of absurdity to wearing it well only because we've decided that that is a flag and a flag means something see we're doing this again if you only wore chinese flags would you rather i know the answer to this question would you rather only wear the chinese flag or the american flag chinese yeah purely aesthetically well also not just purely acidically but mostly aesthetically really gone off the rails jamie that's what we do how do we oh we're having an extended the most consistent we've been about this conversation is what sort of flag you wear for what flag would you wear for the rest of the year and for how much money why do people on twitter hate us so much this is the shit we talk about this is not that weird or bad or interesting or strange it's this is i mean it's weird it is weird but that's really it we're just the the weirdos at the lunch table like we're we have a very specific lunch table in the one room of twitter it's an odd assembly of folks at that table yeah it is i like it a lot i love it it's my favorite look at there's some of these weird folks at on this sim call oh it's beautiful you're all welcome at our lunch table and we're bald advocates look at this yeah that too and we need you that's so good don't worry we're here for you but i'm not probably not going to shave my head in an act of solidarity i'm really sorry to tell you that but i should probably be up front about that right now my eyes are down here i was happy with that line that's really good because it's like the front cover is like a picture of a ball guy real close and a serious look on his face my eyes are down here i added the tone to his voice okay christian flag though what christian flag though oh christian flag i would rather do a christian flag yeah you would did you ever pledge allegiance to the christians yeah to the savior for whose kingdom it stands one savior crucified oh i'm gonna go with life and liberty for all who believe what i can't remember exactly what it was but it it didn't sound just like that i went to a christian middle school in high school so we did it every day here we go start it i pledge allegiance to the christians and to the savior for whose kingdom it stands uh and yes we did pledge to the bible i remember the bible one better but then one savior crucified risen and coming again you didn't have that maybe i don't know i don't remember that what about to the bible i pledge allegiance to the bible god's holy word may it be a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path and i mean may i not stray from it or hide it may i hide its words in my heart so that i might not stand against god that's it oh pledge allegiance to the bible weird i wasn't home schooled but i was christian educated that is like all it might interesting it was like fancy homes fancy homeschool it wasn't accredited it was just people's parents teaching so it was a fun one like what would you what would you think if i made amelie pledge allegiance to the um the zorba text of shima's gospel every morning well i don't know if we'd have to worry about that because i know amelie well enough to know that she wouldn't do it just because you told her to we don't have to worry but i see where you're going with this hypothetical it's an interesting question this is orbit text of shima oh that's our that's our album's name it's the for the first line that we had was falcon lord um there was a falcon flying by when we were singing it oh that's great that's a falcon lord but then it seemed it was a little hard to sing falcon lord falcon lor yeah it's some weird l replacement there and so we said but zorbatex is not super easy either but zorba text there's more consonants i can that works we haven't written the zorpa text yet do you have any suggestions for the first line of it is written is that the first line that should be the last one not the first one if it's the first one nothing's been written yet it's not there yet and the last one yes yep that's it the entire text of look at look at look at what frederick just put in the chat look how good that looks that's it does that have like an o slash e thing what is that thing yeah yeah what is that thing called yeah i don't know that's wonderful frederick uh the zorbatex of shima and the entire text is it is written it is just over and over and over and it's written no just once that's it it has been written i mean that's not inaccurate if you write it down this orbit text is written it has been written there we go i mean we did it we did it we just started a new religion i think we do that every time i think we start a new one every time okay upon you and also with you i don't know who knows thank you it doesn't have to be this either what should our tree thing be we don't do this um we just oh we lift up our left foot each it's it's always left foot so it's opposite the person you're facing and then you touch the soles of your feet together and then you there you go yeah yeah oh well i'm wearing a skirt i can't do that i didn't think about that part i'm not doing that digitally i just mean in person you can do it i'll show my boobs but i'm not showing you my buns no no i gotta leave sound in the imagination no one will buy the cow if you give all the milk away for free oh my god i'm so i can't believe that's a phrase yeah no one will buy the cow if you give them a quick for free i don't know i've been giving the milk away for free for a while now and as of last night someone bought the cow so it fucking worked friends i mean anybody on this zoom call got like a little sprinkling of milk from the picture on the wall i mean is that a is that a nipple joke michael oh shit what is it from meet the parents what's his name is it greg she's like i have nipples greg can you milk me it's not greg what's his fucking name correct it is greg i think so greg yeah anyway i got nipples greg i think that's right it's great i think that's correct okay we're gonna go with it it's gonna go with greg okay well it's been so fun that was great it's nice it's always fun i love you and i love seeing your face i love you too and i miss you and california but mostly you so you're just gonna have to deal with it being in that order i like that and um i'm happy you have a boyfriend what are we calling this episode what do you think we can call it i'm happy you have a boyfriend um is that she's called shiva or absorb a text or what exactly what frederick wrote in the chat that's it see we i don't wanna i don't wanna go for the same mistake that so many christians have which is putting the text before their d okay we don't like the text the divinity good one that's true shima might get mad about that uh let's keep seeing that about it but but she won't get mad about it but it's just it it causes more suffering causes more suffering when you put the text first god we could just keep going for hours with this couldn't we we really could uh call it shima shima shima yes one word or two we've got two different versions here um um maybe the different factions that's our first um we've got two denominations in our new religion those who think it's two words and those two are adamant that it is one the purists tanner said it's happening so fast you gotta start somewhere yeah we do you gotta start somewhere okay let's go great way to end it okay let's go okay let's go love you [Music] guys [Music] you