ASM068 Conspiracy Theories, OCD, and Healthier Divorces

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conspiracy theories ocd and healthier divorces all that and more on this week's episode of ask sciencemic

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welcome to ask science mike the weekly podcast where i answer your questions about science faith and life this summer i'm going to be at the wild goose festival and i'd love to see you there you can join me at wild goose and get 25 off by using goose cast 2016 when you buy your ticket 25 off just for listeners of ask science mike really cool let's do a podcast and get it started [Music] [Applause] [Music] hey mike this is jeremy from mobile alabama my question has to do with conspiracy theories i have some evangelical friends who seem to be more prone to believing in what i feel are these outlandish conspiracy theories they range from biblical topics like certain interpretations of revelations to the likelihood of a pre-adamic race and stuff they've read in the book of enoch and it goes to things that are not biblical like the illuminati freemasons globalism one world government and even it goes so far as saying that alien encounters and bigfoot sightings are demonic in origin i was wondering if there's any science behind what sorts of people or what's what sorts of brains are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories and if there's any relation in that to christianity or maybe religion as a whole and tribalism thanks for your time mike i appreciate what you do bye well this is a really fascinating question because it makes us question our assumptions about people when most people think about conspiracy theories they tend to think about people who are you know hiding in their basement or paranoid or whatever and what science tells us what studies have shown is that belief in conspiracy theories is a really common thing in fact more than 50 percent of the population in america will accept at least one conspiracy theory in a given year at least one uh sometimes more you know 25 percent of the population for example believed in the birth or conspiracy uh related to obama's birth certificate one in four that's hardly a lunatic fringe it was one of the most popular conspiracies of its year so here's why we fall for conspiracy theories so readily conspiracy theories exploit the kinds of shortcuts that our brains use to map reality they hijack the story we tell ourselves in order to make an overwhelming world that we experience as sensory data make sense for example our brains are incredible pattern matching machines we're very very very good at finding patterns in our environment but that comes at a cost our brains will often discern patterns that don't exist so if you show people a random truly random series of two characters say x's and o's and ask them if there's a pattern in that data they will often report that there is even when there is not actually a discernible mathematical pattern to those characters it also hijacks our tendency to form beliefs around social identity so many conspiracy theories are crafted in a way that validates the ideals or psychosocial needs of a given social group and finally one of the things that makes conspiracy theories really powerful is historically the greatest threat to a human being has been other human beings especially if they gang up in numbers and so we're hardwired by evolution to be suspicious of the motives of other people and if a conspiracy theory explains a problem as a group of people working against you that's going to fall into a very natural suspicion or inclination in human brains and that's why the most successful conspiracy theories tend to involve danger or an explanation of danger they make us feel more in control of a situation by having knowledge and therefore increasing our certainty about an event surrounded by uncertainty there's so many 9 11 conspiracies specifically because it made a nation that once felt very secure feel very vulnerable and so our brains want to understand that with understanding feel some measure of control and therefore safety now researchers analyzed how people respond to intentionally false or misleading conspiracy theories online basically to see if they could find patterns in what types of human behaviors are thinking make us more or less susceptible to conspiracy theories and one thing i'll i want to note is that we have a tendency a well-documented bias to ascribe agency or personhood to inanimate or natural events imagine you and your friends are sitting around a campfire and no matter where you sit based on the microcurrents or wind in the area it always seems as if the smoke is following you most people on some level will say you know the smoke is following me or that fire's out to get me they will ascribe agency to a completely natural phenomenon that doesn't have any anthropomorphic or personality tendencies and that's just a shortcut our brains use to survive and that writ large is what creates a susceptibility to belief in conspiracy theories as valid in fact one researcher who was involved in this is named eric oliver and in an interview with the washington post he offered this quote the biggest predictor of whether someone believes in conspiracy theories is whether they also hold other magical beliefs conspiracy theorists are much more likely to believe in the supernatural and paranormal or to believe in biblical prophecy so when you talk about your evangelical friends it's not that evangelicals or christians or any other religious group are more likely to accept conspiracy theories it's if they have a very large supernatural component to their faith what scientists would call magical thinking now that's a loaded term uh it's very skeptical in nature but the linkage and data is clear if you believe that revelation is predicting the events of modern day america you're more likely to accept conspiracy theory statistically if you believe in ufos if you believe in ghosts all these sorts of things which materialists or skeptics would ascribe to your tendency to anthropomorphize your environment gone wild you accept conspiracy theories more readily so how how do we train ourselves to accept conspiracy theories less often it's simple skepticism skeptical thinking being more methodical and more rigorous in how you evaluate claims serves as a cognitive antidote or resistance to conspiracy theory the more you seek to associate evidence with confidence and beliefs the more your brain will counteract this completely normal natural tendency to accepting fantastic explanations that we call conspiracy theories i've got more links on this if you'd like to learn more in the show notes this week on ask sciencemic.com our next question came in via email and it reads hey mike long time listener here of the liturgist podcast but this question veered more towards the science side of things so i thought i'd ask it here i've been struggling with ocd for about the past seven years of my life it started out fairly mild with a few over cleaning tendencies at this point though it's gotten much worse to where i'm checking things touching things fixing things a specific amount of times counting etc to where i'm wasting so much time and giving myself a lot of anxiety until i feel like everything is cleared or checked or okay i haven't seen anyone for this yet my wife knows about it the most i've been in church my whole life and still am currently but i'm more on the progressive christian journey at the moment so i'm leaning towards pragmatism in seeing a psychiatrist as opposed to a counselor here at church or both haha sorry that was a bit of what i thought to be necessary background information i wanted to ask you if you had any experience with this condition firsthand studies otherwise and could let me know what the heck my brain is doing to myself in these moments of obsessions compulsives as well as know how i could successfully combat this condition as i would love to live free of it like i remember doing seven plus years ago thank you so much i really look forward to hearing back in any way well let's start with an essential disclaimer when people send me mental health questions and that's to repeat that i am not qualified or credentialed in any way i'm a person who reads a lot of books and has a great memory that's it i'm good at synthesizing what i read but nothing i say should be considered you know medical advice uh and as i will talk about in the answer to this question i highly recommend you see a professional and talk about your ocd whether you have ocd or not how it may develop and what your treatment options are so what i can give you now is my understanding based on what i've read in the past and what i researched specifically based on your question but again i am not a medical professional i'm not a counselor i'm not a therapist i'm just somebody that cares about all you folks on the internet okay so now let's talk specifically about ocd because people ask me about this a lot especially at live events the first point i want to offer is that obsessive compulsive disorder or ocd can only be diagnosed by a qualified professional our culture throws around those three letters and in doing so i think minimizes the real struggle of people who stru who suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder people who have a normal or routine attention to detail or tendencies towards cleaning an organization will say i'm ocd or i'm so ocd and that's not true real obsessive compulsive disorder interferes in day to day living it can be a debilitating condition so if we understand ocd to be a real condition has it been studied neurologically i have no firsthand experience with ocd i'm pretty opposite i could use a little ocd other than i really really like to know things when i don't and and tend to be a little compulsive towards research i tend to be a pretty laid-back guy so i don't know why people keep thinking i have firsthand experience with ocds it happens a lot but we have seen brain scans of people who suffer from ocd and something notable happens there's a excess activity in the orbitofrontal cortex and a network between the orbital frontal cortex and the basal ganglia and the thalamus now your orbital frontal cortex among other things is the part of your brain responsible for morality and ethics and we say that because it's the part of the brain that constantly tries to predict the future to predict the consequence of actions now you can see why that's relevant in obsessive-compulsive disorder your orbital frontal cortex wants to make sure it's got all the data all the information to make the best possible predictions now when it's talking to the basal ganglia that's the most primitive the lizard brain right by your brain stem this is the part of your brain that when you go on autopilot takes care of everything for you and it's most involved with the basic input output functions of your senses your fight or flight responses among other things and of course the thalamus if you follow my work you've heard that term a lot that is the brain's grand central station it is a relay center in the brain and it makes sense that it would be involved in this network and what you have is a nervous if we could call it that as a metaphor orbito frontal cortex interfering with other brain function constantly trying to make better predictions about the future that would be a simplified neurological view at obsessive-compulsive disorder now what do you do how do you know if you might have obsessive-compulsive disorder where here are some symptoms one fear of contamination from dirt or germs to having forbidden thoughts three having excessive doubts about religion four a compulsive nature to confess tell or ask questions five sexual thoughts that can intrude on daily life six a need to have objects organized in a particular manner seven imagining self-harm or loss of control over aggression and these will be moving towards a state where they are debilitating in someone with obsessive-compulsive disorders and then these obsessions will result in compulsions to relieve the discomfort caused by the obsessions above so here's some common ocd compulsions praying touching arranging or ordering objects counting checking washing hoarding and repeating actions so you have first a list of obsessions that then lead to compulsive behaviors to compensate for the anxiety and stress caused by the obsessions that's clinical obsessive compulsive disorder if you think you have ocd what should you do well i admire your thought here of seeing a professional instead of seeing a pastor the person best suited to help you work through ocd is in fact a psychologist a psychiatrist a counselor of some form who can diagnose and treat the condition that starts with therapy and that therapy will have two stages one kind of the acute stage of therapy where they help you deal with individual moments of compulsion and then a more maintenance approach where they help you deal with the condition on an ongoing basis ocd is not hopeless ocd can be treated there are medical options as well but the only way to get access to that information in an effective manner is professional mental health counseling and i would say as a random guy on the internet who cares about you you should do that sooner than later if you're starting to have those symptoms of compulsion in your life and they are escalating you want to start dealing with this before it gets completely debilitating based on the research i've read that's a better approach so it's great to lean on your church for emotional support and vulnerability and love and affirmation and acceptance and i encourage you to do that but also i encourage you to see a qualified professional as soon as possible [Music] well as i mentioned at the very top of this week's show we have a new sponsor i want to introduce you to it's so fun and so whimsical and it's pinatagram pinatagram is amazing it's absolutely amazing for 20 instead of sending a card or a letter you send someone a real pinata that's full of hard candy and a note from you so they'll get this pinata completely raw naked pinata not in a box in the mail and the note will be inside it so they won't know who this is from until they've opened the pinata it's really really clever they're adorable little pinatas they're filled with a message and candy and they come straight to the person that you send it to not in a box so just imagine imagine the experience instead of the postman walking up the box they walk up with a pinata this is so clever i can't even stand it it's really simple if you go to pinatagrams.com pick whether you want to put uh just a message or messaging candy in the box you can type out your message you order it ships it's super simple if you're looking for a way to stand out bring someone a smile on a day what you know what do i send someone who's you're sending a thank you note you're sending whatever i think a pinata gram would be a really fun alternative and i encourage you to check it out you can go to pinatagrams.com to get more information and order a pinata for someone else today hey science mike my name is zach i've been listening since the beginning of the show this has been so helpful for me recently one of my absolute best friends was diagnosed with an acute form of leukemia she was sick on a monday and then a week later she was finishing her third day of chemo it happened really really suddenly it's a form of of cancer that most most of the time happens in 70 year old men and she's a a female in her mid-20s and she's just already has gone through so much in her life that the statistic anomaly of of her getting cancer has really called into question for me whether or not there's a a god that exists if he right now i'm in a place where it seems like there is either a god who is all-powerful but does not love or care about his his creation enough to intervene or he does love and care about us but doesn't have the control to actually keep terrible awful things from happening to good people um that isn't really my question i think that's probably something that uh somebody would struggle to to answer uh or talk to me about currently right now but what i'm finding is that if i'm not thinking about something i will default back to my ways of thinking when when i considered myself religious somebody that believed in god um basically would have i would have called myself a christian from age five to 25 so for 20 years i thought a certain way about things especially terrible events like this one and and now i'm i'm catching myself uh believing in things in my brain that i don't actually believe in my heart can you talk about the the pathways that our brain creates when it is constantly thinking thoughts like i believe god will make a way through this terrible situation that would cause me to kind of default back to that even though i right now i'm not in a place where i actually believe that or not thanks mike appreciate it well the first thing i'd like to say is that i'm sorry for what you're going through genuinely deeply sorry for the pain you're experiencing and i want to just pause and say that grief is appropriate and normal that questioning things in response to that suffering is healthy i can't answer the problem of evil i don't think anyone can but i can validate what you feel the questions you have the struggle you're going through and i would not rush you through it or try to offer pat answers to one of the most difficult questions that human beings face you see suffering raises the problem of evil in a very personal way it stops being academic and rhetorical and it starts to be something that makes us not want to get out of bed in the morning and i understand that i absolutely do and i am sorry for what you are going through now in terms of your question stress and grief is a type of stress changes how we think it changes the way our bodies function it we produce more stress hormones we uh tend to get into a desperate state where it actually changes the decision-making matrix we use to get through the day we become a mix of extremely pessimistic about our present but wildly optimistic and open to risk in the future it's almost like when you have nothing to lose you'll try anything to make things better so therefore times of grief and stress are not good times for people to make major financial decisions or career changes or those kinds of decisions because it's changing the way your brain makes decision it's making you more likely to take risks and to be more confident that you should be about the positive outcome of those changes and this is because when we're in a stressed state typically in some way we feel that our well-being and therefore maybe our survival is threatened and when that happens our brain tends to try to conserve resources and we use less expensive modes of thinking the most powerful networks in your brain live in the neocortex they help you process new information and build new models of reality and they just use a lot of calories they use a lot of oxygen and they're very slow compared to more primitive structures in the brain your basal ganglia your amygdala can make decisions very very quickly because they tend to reduce everything to black and white models friend or foe and especially work on information that you felt the most comfortable with the longest because those neural pathways are most embedded in your brain and so it's no doubt when doubting seeking agnostic or even atheist people encounter crises that often they find a longing for god again or even begin to pray again shortly after i lost my faith my grandmother died and i found myself praying again i found myself contemplating and speaking to a god i did not believe in and it puzzled me it puzzled me for a long time but as i learned more about the brain that makes all the sense in the world because whether or not god as a being exists in some way in material reality we won't even try to address that right now what we can address is the fact that probably in your past belief in god provided you some measure of comfort some measure of relief from stress and so god as a belief became a coping strategy that is enmeshed in your neurological makeup 20 years of belief leaves its mark on the brain and so now in a time of stress those lasting network this god network in your brain is something your brain tries to lean into for comfort and support again there's nothing wrong with that i'm not a person that tries to lead people to a specific destination in their journey of faith i'm not a person who would tell you to believe as i do i would simply say that if god brings you comfort accept that comfort even as you continue to question and struggle and wrestle with what you believe about god if anything at all there is nothing wrong with taking comfort from what you once believed especially in a difficult time and even if that raises questions you cannot answer it's the the biggest gap in my faith the difference between the god of physics a god who i feel like i can demonstrate scientifically a ground of being a source of all the underpinning of our reality mysterious but completely natural in origin compared to the personal god i so often encounter in my faith that is full of logical contradictions that is full of unanswered questions and i've just let that gap exist uh i haven't given up on it i always look for new information but i've stopped trying to master my reality by forcing those two views of god to reconcile in some messy or unsatisfying way i simply accept the experiences i have in faith that provide me comfort that opened my eyes to love and that's been my experience it may or may not be yours all i want to leave you with is that you're okay you're going through a difficult time and grief is a normal appropriate and even healthy response and maybe what you once believed about god can help you through it and if so let it without any guilt or disappointment and self you need to be gracious with yourself in a difficult time like this our last question this week deals with marriage divorce and orientation and may be inappropriate for some of our younger listeners so parents if you're listening with your kids uh if you feel it might not be appropriate for your kids go ahead and hit pause you can listen yourself and decide whether to listen as a family after you've heard the question this last question comes in from our email inbox and it reads howdy sciencemike heavy question here recently my wife came out to me that she is a lesbian she grew up in a culture that made her suppress those emotions we met and fell in love and never had sex because we were being good christians and then we got married but right away i knew something was different with our sex life it didn't seem like we had the ability to connect sexually for about three years i practically had to beg her to have sex with me and after enough time sometimes months she would give in i always felt guilty because i hate the idea of begging someone for something that should come more naturally long story short she ended up confessing to me that she is a lesbian and that she cannot be sexually compatible with me at the moment we are considering a peaceful separation or divorce we have two young beautiful kids but we know that if we stay together we will just keep making each other miserable i have committed myself to her well-being and truly want her to find fulfillment in life neither one of us has committed adultery or anything close we are seeking professional counseling and that will provide the very specific guidance we need for our situation i realize not everyone would react to this the exact way we have but my hunch is that there are more people like us who are going through this type of honesty and shift in their relationship i hope our story can provide some relief that if you're going through this type of thing that you are not alone the question what is the science on children and divorce what about the effects of having two parents who are incompatible and staying together for the kids and a part of me thinks that if we would have had sex before marriage we would have perhaps figured out that we were not sexually compatible what's the science on sex outside of marriage is it worth the risk to do it or is it worth the risk to wait thanks for considering this narrative i am deeply grateful for your work david well david thank you for your question i would start by saying it would be inappropriate for me to even weigh in on whether i think you should get divorced or not of course that is a decision left to you and your wife and what arrangements you make and i know that you didn't even ask for my opinion and i'm glad you didn't i'm saying that for other people who might be listening and are waiting for me to weigh in on that i'm not i'm just not going to what i will do is answer the questions that you sent in about the science on children and divorce and so i remember a few things that you may can keep in mind scientifically as you work through these decisions first of all remember that grief responses are normal during divorce and separation even when they are amicable so the stages of grief those kind of bargaining anger sadness all those different emotions that happen in grief that may not happen in a particular linear order that may come and go and return and be worse the second time or not it's very individual but you have to understand this will happen you may want to beat yourself up over this or you may go through periods where you deeply resent your former spouse in a divorce and when this happens scientifically speaking we understand it's essentially for you to be kind and compassionate to yourself because research shows that this makes managing divorce day to day easier holding a compassion and a kindness toward yourself for most people that's difficult it's actually easier for us to be kind and compassionate to other people especially our friends and family than it is for us to do that for ourselves so as much as you can give yourself the same degree of compassion and grace and forgiveness as you would give a dear friend now in order if you go through a divorce for it to be you know the best possible divorce for your children there's a few tips i've seen and this comes from the american psychological association on healthy divorce and i've got a link to that on the website asksciencemike.com and it that article itself has links to additional studies resources and other bits of information related to what i'm telling you now so here's their tips one is to keep communication lines open with your ex at all times open honest dialogue now as this goes you'll have to start creating boundaries for each of you in order to keep a healthy relationship but just be open and keep lines of communication as you do that and avoid having your children be liaisons or sources of communication and especially avoid speaking ill of your ex in the process even if your partner starts to do that and i'm not saying that will happen in your situation but as much as you can stay positive about your partner it's better for your children cooperate on creating a custody plan and present it to your children together and understand that as you do that your kids will be healthiest if they maintain close relationships with both parents regardless of how custody arrangements shake out in percentage of time it sounds like you two have a positive friendship and what you're trying to do if you get divorced is transition this marriage from a marriage to the healthiest friendship you can have with appropriate boundaries based on the wounds you'll have from breaking a marriage now when you specifically ask about staying together incompatible versus divorce studies has shown that an amicable divorce tends to be better for children over time as in longer than two year time frames than persisting in what they call a high conflict marriage so that's studies seem to validate that and the last thing i would say is don't forget to take care of yourself not just offering yourself grace i mean exercising eating well maybe sometimes eating a whole carton of ice cream whatever you've got to do to kind of treat yourself keep yourself in good shape and definitely consider seeing a counselor or therapist so that as you are processing your emotions and working through your feelings you have a safe place to vent and a sounding board uh who you owe nothing in return other than an hourly fee it's a very healthy arrangement it will help you keep your head on straight keep your cool and stay positive when dealing with your ex and your children now your second question about the science of pre-marital sex data there is not slam dunk either way i've read studies in either direction i'm going to say that's a personal decision in general i think fewer partners is better that's my read of the science and that's not just based on sexually transmitted diseases uh that's based on my understanding of the evolutionary shaping of human relationships we appear to be kind of serially monogamous creatures and that seems to be a pretty good arrangement for us i would say that most christians consider pre-marital sex to be out of bounds it's a teaching i understand i also understand that teaching tends to be arranged or in alignment with viewing women as property and protecting a property value because in the cultures that wrote the bible a daughter who had been spoiled or who had had sex was worth less or even worse nothing worth truly worthless uh than a virgin so viewing those teachings in a proper historical context reveals them in a different light uh i won't ever shame anyone who has had or is currently having a lot of sexual partners i'm not sure scientifically that's healthy that's that's my stand i know i know i know you think i get pushed back when i talk about the bible when i talk about sexual ethics the email inbox explodes because people have very deep very personal opinions and believe me nobody on the internet more supports and believes that you have a right to believe what you want to believe sexually and you have a right to express your sexual ethics in a way that is personal and appropriate to you in no way do i want to coerce others to believe as i believe and that's a little bit of a distraction in your case you know we can play the what if game i can't i i don't know what would have happened differently based on premarital sex in your relationship what i do know is that i think more harm came not from the schedule of your sexual encounters but the role that shame plays in sexual ethics and this is my problem with the traditional christian views on sexuality is the shaming the shaming of orientation the shaming of sexual desire the vilification of sex as an activity is something i think causes so much harm not just gay people and lesbian people and bisexual people being shamed and conforming to a heterosexual ethic and having divorces because of it but all aspects we see so many unhealthy sexual expressions that our response to sexual repression from shame no matter what we do we've got to de-shame sex in the church it's an essential work for our time so back to the matter at hand whether you get divorced or not i just want to honor the way that you're approaching your wife your wife seems to be approaching you and whatever you decide i hope that you're both able to remember the things that drew you together as friends and preserve that because whether or not you remain married you will forever be partners in raising your children and i just applaud your efforts to potentially dissolve your union in a way that preserves the health and well-being of your children [Music] that's another episode of ask science mike but before you hit skip and head to the next podcast i do have a few announcements i'd like to share with you first of all very very soon i'm going to be at the village forum in saratoga california and that's going to be on june 10th i'll be in saratoga california for the village forum we're going to be talking about science and faith and how they relate or how they don't in the heart of silicon valley so if that's your part of the world i'd love to see you there as i mentioned at the top of the program i'll be at the wild goose festival this year in july and if you use goose cast 2016 when you get your tickets you're going to get 25 off to come hang out with me at wild goose the liturgists will be doing a podcast there as well so we'd love to see you at wild goose uh september and october we're going to be in denver and chicago for the liturgist gathering tickets are selling really well guys and girls and gender non-conforming people y'all uh so if you'd like to join us at the liturgist gathering it's not just you you're not the only person who feels this way about science and faith and doubt and being spiritually homeless and frustrated so we're all just going to get together you can go the liturgist.com l-i-t-u-r-g-i-s-t-s liturgists.com to learn more about the liturgist gathering and next week you'll want to listen to the show next week because i'm going to announce details about the cities we're trying to go to for the finding god and the waves book tour this fall and how you can get me to your city for that book tour we're gonna have some never done before uh easier less expensive very very inexpensive ways to get me to your city uh to talk about finding god in the ways with an ass science mike live or if you want me to you know speak as a guest in your church on sunday morning uh whatever you'd like to do more details next week about that process so wow oh and if you don't know i've got a book coming out this fall so that'll be a good time to learn about that too that's it for this week i want to thank all my patrons on patreon wow wow wow wow i was actually wondering if we were gonna make it through the summer and uh financially honestly you know i talk about a god that's an impersonal force and uh every time i think we're not gonna make it financially something's been happening and we do which my mom says is reminding me that god is personal no matter what uh logical contradictions i see in that and all i want to say is you patrons i hate to uh put this weight on you but you've been acting like the hands of god to me lately i just said it i just went there um so for those of you who've done that thank you if you like oh i'd love to help science mike i don't have any money at all that's fine you can rate the show on itunes it really helps there's so many people who sent positive ratings it helps other people find the show cost you a couple of minutes just go to itunes rate the podcast it really helps uh we need your questions keep sending them in go to asksciencemike.com if you want to submit a question via email or record a question and have your voice on the show that's how you do that just go to asksciencemike.com i want to thank andrew galucki for all the pre-production work he's also working on a community aspect for the program we have a lot of people saying hey i'd like to find other weird people like me in my city we're working on that we'll have news in the next couple weeks about how you can find other science mic nerds in your community i want to thank greg nordine as always for his amazing work producing the show sounds amazing greg's the man and of course the boy the bear jeff bodiford wrote the theme song you know he's got that beautiful tenor voice the guy is literally the size of a polar bear it's unbelievable when he plays a guitar it looks like a ukulele man can he write songs and he could do that for you you can find links to andrew and greg and jeb as well as patreon and all the stuff we've talked about on asksciencemike.com thanks for listening y'all and i will see you next week