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On Jul 14, 2015 7:17 AM Danielus wrote:

If there is glycolisis there is lalctic acid exported. If there is lactic acid exported, MCT1 is there. The amplitude of MCT1 expression is correlated with glucose avidity. As a result, the intensity of glucose absorption visible in PET-CT would inidicate the potential of 3BP effectivness withouth the need of a genetic analysis.
Excellent. We start today at 10 a.m. Is it essential to have an empty stomach? My husband is on some very strong antibiotics for five days and they must be taken with food.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:43 AM
Quote | ReplyTo my knowledge starvation will upregulate MCT1 but I only respect this when possible.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:49 AM

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On Jul 14, 2015 2:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 7:17 AM Danielus wrote:

If there is glycolisis there is lalctic acid exported. If there is lactic acid exported, MCT1 is there. The amplitude of MCT1 expression is correlated with glucose avidity. As a result, the intensity of glucose absorption visible in PET-CT would inidicate the potential of 3BP effectivness withouth the need of a genetic analysis.
Excellent. We start today at 10 a.m. Is it essential to have an empty stomach? My husband is on some very strong antibiotics for five days and they must be taken with food.
Will be having only the very best and positive thoughts--we all truly care!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:51 AM

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On Jul 14, 2015 2:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 2:22 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 7:17 AM Danielus wrote:

If there is glycolisis there is lalctic acid exported. If there is lactic acid exported, MCT1 is there. The amplitude of MCT1 expression is correlated with glucose avidity. As a result, the intensity of glucose absorption visible in PET-CT would inidicate the potential of 3BP effectivness withouth the need of a genetic analysis.
Excellent. We start today at 10 a.m. Is it essential to have an empty stomach? My husband is on some very strong antibiotics for five days and they must be taken with food.
Will be having only the very best and positive thoughts--we all truly care!
Thank you L. Haven't heard back from the good doc yet. I asked him a few Q's, and he usually gets back immediately, so I think he is travelling. (He goes to remote places in his quest for cures, and is often off the grid.)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:07 PM
Quote | ReplyHi Moonlight,

Can you please update if your referring to treatment of 3-bp in Canada? or just the PET scan?

I am still in the hunt for 3BP and 2 DG at a reasonable price with the protocol. I am travelling to BC next month, if you have any contacts I would love to be in contact.

Regards,

Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 02:12 PM
Quote | ReplyHello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 03:51 PM
Quote | ReplyIn Germany this litlle private clinic works with 3BP: http://kankerbehandelen.nl/behandelingen-2/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 03:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PMsumeetnagwrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
1.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/

That page has something of a protocol I believe.

2. The 90% and 100% would probably be figures based on how many cancers exhibit the Warburg Effect. The efficacy is unknown as no papers have been published showing failures in humans to this point and only two papers have been published showing large successes at eradicating tumors. In mouse and other animal models, the drug worked with 100% efficacy but you have to take in-vivo studies with a grain of salt.

3. Arizona:

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 14, 2015 04:03 PM

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On Jul 14, 2015 7:57 PM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/

That page has something of a protocol I believe.

2. The 90% and 100% would probably be figures based on how many cancers exhibit the Warburg Effect. The efficacy is unknown as no papers have been published showing failures in humans to this point and only two papers have been published showing large successes at eradicating tumors. In mouse and other animal models, the drug worked with 100% efficacy but you have to take in-vivo studies with a grain of salt.

3. Arizona:

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/

(480)699-7400
Yes. A large grain of salt. Even with human xenografts. We began our IV today. I expected something more dramatic, but it was all accomplished swiftly and with minimum fuss except for weighing. It was done under professional supervision.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Tue Jul 14, 2015 04:08 PM
Quote | ReplyMoonlight, are you the patient or one of your relatives? What type of cancer?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 04:35 PM
Quote | ReplyAll the best moonlight, hope it works for him. Will appreciate if you could keep us posted on how you get along.

I am targetting first week of september for mum. Did the Doctors provide any numbers or patients with success or you are one of the first few? What gave you the confidence, did they mention any risks?

Did they check anything in particular before the IV to test its effectiveness?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:00 PM
Quote | ReplyWere the portable monitors of any help? (potassium, uric acid)

Could check the effectiveness of 3BP using yeast (that is what was done by one of the groups in the special issue of the Journal of Bioenergetics [with the liver patient]).

Fingers crossed.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:05 PM
Quote | ReplyThe antibiotics might help.

Antibiotics that target mitochondria effectively eradicate cancer stem cells, across multiple tumor types: Treating cancer like an infectious disease    Oncotarget (Jan. 2015)

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:14 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
Congratulations with reading teh 176 pages!

Risks are related with the fact that this substance is highly acidic and may strongly inflamate the veins if not done correctly which can even lead to e.g. port removal. But if done correctly there are no risks, based on my experience.

Another risk discussed here was TLS. However, based on the peope I know treated with 3BP there was nothing serious other than fever or similar.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:15 PM
Quote | ReplyHi Jcancom,

I feel overwhelmed in august company. Great to have feedback from someone like you who appears to have a scientific background.

I always believe extraordinary claims need extraordinary facts. The hypothesis of glycolysis and destruction all makes sense.

From what I have been able to read so far, in human there are references to one person for whom it worked and he passed away due to hypoxia and not the cancer. Do we have more human results, its side effects. It not having worked?

-Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:26 PM
Quote | ReplyWow Danielus!

You know people who have been through the use of 3-bp! Can you please share the results. My mum is metastatic left breast with mets to right lung, right breast, bones and left arm.

Can you please share your view of the claimed success rate and its efficacy?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:31 PM
Quote | ReplyOn a different note. We tried Methyl Glyoxol for mum which is supposed to work metabolically. However it did not slow down the progression. New mets were found in mums right breast and left arm which were not spotted before.

The SUV values have gone down significantly on the other mets in lymph nodes, bones and lungs. Not sure if just the SUV value is any valid indicator.

If Methyl glyoxol has not worked, is there any relevance that 3BP or 2 DG might not work as well?

I am excited and refreshing my page, waiting for your response to pop in :) I have finally found someone who has real life experience of 3 BP!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 05:32 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 9:14 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
Congratulations with reading teh 176 pages!

Risks are related with the fact that this substance is highly acidic and may strongly inflamate the veins if not done correctly which can even lead to e.g. port removal. But if done correctly there are no risks, based on my experience.

Another risk discussed here was TLS. However, based on the peope I know treated with 3BP there was nothing serious other than fever or similar.
Wow Danielus!

You know people who have been through the use of 3-bp! Can you please share the results. My mum is metastatic left breast with mets to right lung, right breast, bones and left arm.

Can you please share your view of the claimed success rate and its efficacy?

On a different note. We tried Methyl Glyoxol for mum which is supposed to work metabolically. However it did not slow down the progression. New mets were found in mums right breast and left arm which were not spotted before.

The SUV values have gone down significantly on the other mets in lymph nodes, bones and lungs. Not sure if just the SUV value is any valid indicator.

If Methyl glyoxol has not worked, is there any relevance that 3BP or 2 DG might not work as well?

I am excited and refreshing my page, waiting for your response to pop in :) I have finally found someone who has real life experience of 3 BP!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 9:32 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 9:14 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
Congratulations with reading teh 176 pages!

Risks are related with the fact that this substance is highly acidic and may strongly inflamate the veins if not done correctly which can even lead to e.g. port removal. But if done correctly there are no risks, based on my experience.

Another risk discussed here was TLS. However, based on the peope I know treated with 3BP there was nothing serious other than fever or similar.
Wow Danielus!

You know people who have been through the use of 3-bp! Can you please share the results. My mum is metastatic left breast with mets to right lung, right breast, bones and left arm.

Can you please share your view of the claimed success rate and its efficacy?

On a different note. We tried Methyl Glyoxol for mum which is supposed to work metabolically. However it did not slow down the progression. New mets were found in mums right breast and left arm which were not spotted before.

The SUV values have gone down significantly on the other mets in lymph nodes, bones and lungs. Not sure if just the SUV value is any valid indicator.

If Methyl glyoxol has not worked, is there any relevance that 3BP or 2 DG might not work as well?

I am excited and refreshing my page, waiting for your response to pop in :) I have finally found someone who has real life experience of 3 BP!
Now, there are more and more people around with real life experience on 3BP.

There are people who respond easyer than others to teh treatment. In some cases the response can be in a week or two while in other cases it may take time. 3BP is working and there is no question about that but the dificuty is related with the administration of the substance. This is because is highly acidic. In order to reduce/eliminate the negative impact of that on the body of that acidity, one option is to extend the administration time. But than the issue is that 3BP stability is low and the longer the administration time, the lower is its effectivness. The other option is to use buffers but each buffer is debated as well regarding its impact on 3BP effectivness. Than the question is how to make sure that 3BP is getting where you want. And here there are various strategies that may be applied to reduce GSH, to upregulate MCT1, to increase prefusion, to transport 3BP, to support 3BP. In additio, there are many other things that shoud be avoided whille on the treatment such as natura substances and drugs.

Finay, to answer your question, yes 3BP is effective at a level similar to the one claimed but the administration is challenging. If the tumors are at the surface, than is very easy. I think I explained the formulation in an earlir post: e.g. 100mg 3BP+2ml water+50mg NaBic+4ml DMSO for topical appication one ore multiple times/day. The arm and breast can be probably targeted with this solution. For lungs you can nebulize 3BP.

I see no reason why 3BP and 2DG would not be effective if MG was not effective.

Additionaly, I strongly belive in Salinomycin IV as well.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:25 PM
Quote | ReplyBig news, at least for me: there are small pharmacies in Germany selling 3BP for IV. 3BP is prepared in vials. I have seen that today.

What is strange to me is to see that the vial contains solution and not powder, since it i known that the 3BP stability is very low in solutions and at relativelly high pH (which I guess it is since they do not suggest addition of any buffer) ... even more strange, the solution is suggested to be used within ONE YEAR which is sooo long time ... but who knows what formulation they found ... The price is very accessible.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:34 PM
Quote | ReplyYes, I agree this is very large news.

If the pharmacies can simply say: "This is a sterile IV solution of stable 3-BP" that would be very helpful to patients. They do not have to make any, as yet unproven claims of efficacy. This could finally move 3-BP above board. Cancer patients should not have to sneak around dealing with nebulous chemical suppliers for what is a human medicine.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:35 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:18 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 9:32 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 9:14 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 6:12 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have just started following couple of days ago and excited to find I have company on this quest for cure. I have tried to read back as much as I could, 176 pages :)

In a nutshell, can somebody help me answer the following if it is already listed somewhere?

1) Does anyone have the protocol to 3 BP, 2 DG and EGCG, etc

2) Are the claims of 90% success rate with 100% removal cancer true? As it works metabolically, it should work? Why has it been so quiet for so many years? Are there major risks?

3) Where can we get them from? They appear to be very expensive. Can somebody help me with contacts to arizona or germany please?

-Sumeet
Congratulations with reading teh 176 pages!

Risks are related with the fact that this substance is highly acidic and may strongly inflamate the veins if not done correctly which can even lead to e.g. port removal. But if done correctly there are no risks, based on my experience.

Another risk discussed here was TLS. However, based on the peope I know treated with 3BP there was nothing serious other than fever or similar.
Wow Danielus!

You know people who have been through the use of 3-bp! Can you please share the results. My mum is metastatic left breast with mets to right lung, right breast, bones and left arm.

Can you please share your view of the claimed success rate and its efficacy?

On a different note. We tried Methyl Glyoxol for mum which is supposed to work metabolically. However it did not slow down the progression. New mets were found in mums right breast and left arm which were not spotted before.

The SUV values have gone down significantly on the other mets in lymph nodes, bones and lungs. Not sure if just the SUV value is any valid indicator.

If Methyl glyoxol has not worked, is there any relevance that 3BP or 2 DG might not work as well?

I am excited and refreshing my page, waiting for your response to pop in :) I have finally found someone who has real life experience of 3 BP!
Now, there are more and more people around with real life experience on 3BP.

There are people who respond easyer than others to teh treatment. In some cases the response can be in a week or two while in other cases it may take time. 3BP is working and there is no question about that but the dificuty is related with the administration of the substance. This is because is highly acidic. In order to reduce/eliminate the negative impact of that on the body of that acidity, one option is to extend the administration time. But than the issue is that 3BP stability is low and the longer the administration time, the lower is its effectivness. The other option is to use buffers but each buffer is debated as well regarding its impact on 3BP effectivness. Than the question is how to make sure that 3BP is getting where you want. And here there are various strategies that may be applied to reduce GSH, to upregulate MCT1, to increase prefusion, to transport 3BP, to support 3BP. In additio, there are many other things that shoud be avoided whille on the treatment such as natura substances and drugs.

Finay, to answer your question, yes 3BP is effective at a level similar to the one claimed but the administration is challenging. If the tumors are at the surface, than is very easy. I think I explained the formulation in an earlir post: e.g. 100mg 3BP+2ml water+50mg NaBic+4ml DMSO for topical appication one ore multiple times/day. The arm and breast can be probably targeted with this solution. For lungs you can nebulize 3BP.

I see no reason why 3BP and 2DG would not be effective if MG was not effective.

Additionaly, I strongly belive in Salinomycin IV as well.

Thanks Daniel. Mum has her primary tumor visible on skin, it is around 7.8 x 8.3 cm in size. So I guess the topical application might help. Do you suggest I procure it from a pharmacy in germany? If in vials, are they easy to transport?

If I procure it, how long do you think the protocol might last, a rough estimate, so I can purchase accordingly. It will be great to know, if you have heard or seen patients get results via topical application, as you rightly stated administration and efficacy of 3bp is challenging.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:34 PM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I agree this is very large news.

If the pharmacies can simply say: "This is a sterile IV solution of stable 3-BP" that would be very helpful to patients. They do not have to make any, as yet unproven claims of efficacy. This could finally move 3-BP above board. Cancer patients should not have to sneak around dealing with nebulous chemical suppliers for what is a human medicine.

Wow! You guys are way ahead of my league. Are you seeing this on ground in germany? Everyone is tight lipped about it. The practise in Arizona, had to do non disclosure on the protocol and in effect have to charge high prices. They reccomend 1-3 months. The most effective results are when efficacy is shown in a short duration of 1-2 weeks.

Very confused on the best way to admiister it and have it transported to India. oR Get it to UK and have parents over to UK.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:49 PM
Quote | ReplyFor topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:52 PM
Quote | ReplyThere is some interest in moving to the next generation of 3-BP. 3-BP is now a maturing product and is becoming more visible in various clinics around the world.

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/7.\_Clinics\_Offering\_3-B

For example, MD Anderson has made a version of 3-BP called 3-BrOP that is claimed to be even more effective. The chemistry involved in making 3-BrOP from 3-BP does not appear overly complex. Perhaps a lab could make you some.

Prescience Labs in late last year reported on a cyclodextrin encapsulation form of 3-BP that also would not require  extensive lab skills. Perhaps a cyclodextrin form of 3-BrOP could also be made.

A chitosan formulation of methylglyoxal has been described which would also not be overly difficult to synthesize according to the given recipe.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 06:53 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:40 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:34 PM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I agree this is very large news.

If the pharmacies can simply say: "This is a sterile IV solution of stable 3-BP" that would be very helpful to patients. They do not have to make any, as yet unproven claims of efficacy. This could finally move 3-BP above board. Cancer patients should not have to sneak around dealing with nebulous chemical suppliers for what is a human medicine.

Wow! You guys are way ahead of my league. Are you seeing this on ground in germany? Everyone is tight lipped about it. The practise in Arizona, had to do non disclosure on the protocol and in effect have to charge high prices. They reccomend 1-3 months. The most effective results are when efficacy is shown in a short duration of 1-2 weeks.

Very confused on the best way to admiister it and have it transported to India. oR Get it to UK and have parents over to UK.
You can also take her for a short time at the clinic in Germany mentioned by one of the members earlier. It is a good place for 3BP. They have experience with 3BP, they are very nice people and the cost is probaby one of the lowest.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 07:05 PM
Quote | ReplyI couldn't quite figure that one out. Is that clinic in the Netherlands or Germany? Do they make a specific mention somewhere on their website that they are treating with 3BP?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Tue Jul 14, 2015 07:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 11:05 PM Jcancom wrote:

I couldn't quite figure that one out. Is that clinic in the Netherlands or Germany? Do they make a specific mention somewhere on their website that they are treating with 3BP?
I know them - Dutch but loccated in Germany due to reggulations. Yes, using 3BP. There are more clinics but wil not advertise on the website yet ;)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 14, 2015 07:51 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:53 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:40 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:34 PM Jcancom wrote:

Yes, I agree this is very large news.

If the pharmacies can simply say: "This is a sterile IV solution of stable 3-BP" that would be very helpful to patients. They do not have to make any, as yet unproven claims of efficacy. This could finally move 3-BP above board. Cancer patients should not have to sneak around dealing with nebulous chemical suppliers for what is a human medicine.

Wow! You guys are way ahead of my league. Are you seeing this on ground in germany? Everyone is tight lipped about it. The practise in Arizona, had to do non disclosure on the protocol and in effect have to charge high prices. They reccomend 1-3 months. The most effective results are when efficacy is shown in a short duration of 1-2 weeks.

Very confused on the best way to admiister it and have it transported to India. oR Get it to UK and have parents over to UK.
You can also take her for a short time at the clinic in Germany mentioned by one of the members earlier. It is a good place for 3BP. They have experience with 3BP, they are very nice people and the cost is probaby one of the lowest.
"They reccomend 1-3 months. The most effective results are when efficacy is shown in a short duration of 1-2 weeks."  I would imagine this would depend on how fast you ramp up the dose...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 07:59 PM
Quote | ReplyIn the reported patients to date (liver patient, melanoma patient, 2 patients from Dayspring) the initial indication of response happened quickly. Some of these patients felt better even from the first dose and their markers also moved early on in the treatment. With a treatment as powerful as 3BP you can have very quick confirmation of effectiveness.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:03 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 11:59 PM Jcancom wrote:

In the reported patients to date (liver patient, melanoma patient, 2 patients from Dayspring) the initial indication of response happened quickly. Some of these patients felt better even from the first dose and their markers also moved early on in the treatment. With a treatment as powerful as 3BP you can have very quick confirmation of effectiveness.
Isn't that because it was intra-arterial though Jcancom? Could one expect the same with IV delivery?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:10 PM
Quote | ReplyThe melanoma patient, the 2 reported Dayspring patients and probably the Columbian patient were all IV.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 14, 2015 08:19 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 12:10 AM Jcancom wrote:

The melanoma patient, the 2 reported Dayspring patients and probably the Columbian patient were all IV.
Aaah! I forgot Dayspring. Thanks for the reminder.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 09:17 PM
Quote | ReplyI think the idea of measure markers, treat with a low dose of IV 3-BP, and then re-measure markers makes quite a bit of sense. An LDH blood test only costs $4.15.

By knowing right away if the treatment were working, you could put your mind at ease. Spending a large amount of time and money on a treatment that probably was not going to work out would not be good strategizing.

3BP directly targets the energy pathway of cancer: if it is going to work, it probably should be obvious soon after the start of treatment.

Look at the melanoma patient's response to even a low dose of straight IV 3-BP (see Figure 3 in below url). After a single dose of 1.0 mg/kg IV 3BP his LDH fell by 1300 U/L !!! It is clearly worth $4.15 to make this measurement. Notice that if you waited a few days the LDH bounced back to above the starting level.

Measuring response early could save you many thousands of dollars. If you received a positive confirmation of treatment response, then you would know that the treatment was probably going to work and the money would be well spent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 14, 2015 09:38 PM
Quote | ReplyI am glad that I am finally clear about Dayspring using IV 3BP.

http://www.dayspringcancerclinic.com/overview/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Wed Jul 15, 2015 01:28 AM
Quote | ReplyI found this website where you can order your own blood tests online!  $39 for an LDH test and theres a participating lab in my town :)

http://www.healthonelabs.com/index.cfm
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Wed Jul 15, 2015 04:01 AM
Quote | ReplyI checked with Daysprings, Arizona yesterday. They administer it via IV. They reccomend a one month stay at the hospital.

Just for 3 BP, they have vitamin C and other additions. They charge around $16,000 per month. They have only been practising it for 4 months and have a non disclosure on the protocol. Thought it will be useful to share.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 15, 2015 05:39 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 8:01 AM sumeetnag wrote:

I checked with Daysprings, Arizona yesterday. They administer it via IV. They reccomend a one month stay at the hospital.

Just for 3 BP, they have vitamin C and other additions. They charge around $16,000 per month. They have only been practising it for 4 months and have a non disclosure on the protocol. Thought it will be useful to share.
For the intensive treatment (3BP IV, oral, enema + all the others such as Vit C) that they are offering 16k/month sounds great! Now it is much more accessible!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 09:31 AM
Quote | ReplyI also mailed Day spring cancr clinic vor more info .. this is their answer: Hi Margreet,

I do not about the German clinic so cannot comment about them specifically and how they use (present to the body) the 3bp. In other words, the formulation that is used with the 3bp is critical.  It is just not throwing some 3bp at the body but a careful presentation that is needed to get the right results.  Without the correct formulation surrounding the 3bp then the hyperreactivity of the 3bp is difficult to control. We are still very new to using 3bp but are impressed with the results.  A Swedish pancreatic patient is on the website and also a woman from Texas with breast to bone.  These are some of the best cases and we have seen some mixed results such as another pancreatic that was still eating hotdogs! and scones and also not wanting to do many of the other protocols that we wanted him to do.  Such as the green juices, EWOT, hyperthermia and others. So the more that one is willing to do along with the 3bp the better the 3bp works. Hope this helps!
Dr DickensQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitter Moonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:32 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 9:39 AM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 15, 2015 8:01 AM sumeetnag wrote:

I checked with Daysprings, Arizona yesterday. They administer it via IV. They reccomend a one month stay at the hospital.

Just for 3 BP, they have vitamin C and other additions. They charge around $16,000 per month. They have only been practising it for 4 months and have a non disclosure on the protocol. Thought it will be useful to share.
For the intensive treatment (3BP IV, oral, enema + all the others such as Vit C) that they are offering 16k/month sounds great! Now it is much more accessible!
Is this daily treatment does anyone know?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:34 AM
Quote | Replyin the clicn in germany they totld me the treatment is 5 days a week during the first month .. after that the treatment is about twice a week for a couple of months
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 15, 2015 01:32 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is very exciting news about the new price point for Dayspring. The last pricing we had from them was US$25,000 to US$30,000 per month of 3-BP treatment. For many that price was out of range. The new price of around US$15,000 should bring in considerable more business for them. Possibly even somewhat more downward movement on price could help boost their total revenues.

If they could establish efficacy before the formal treatment plan started (e.g. perhaps by giving one low dose treatment of 3-BP) [and the full payment was required], then even more people would be interested in their service.

I am somewhat surprised that more emphasis has not been placed on treating lymphomas and or leukemias with 3-BP. MD Anderson's 3-BrOP appeared to demonstrate strong efficacy in lymphoma.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 15, 2015 02:49 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 5:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is very exciting news about the new price point for Dayspring. The last pricing we had from them was US$25,000 to US$30,000 per month of 3-BP treatment. For many that price was out of range. The new price of around US$15,000 should bring in considerable more business for them. Possibly even somewhat more downward movement on price could help boost their total revenues.

If they could establish efficacy before the formal treatment plan started (e.g. perhaps by giving one low dose treatment of 3-BP) [and the full payment was required], then even more people would be interested in their service.

I am somewhat surprised that more emphasis has not been placed on treating lymphomas and or leukemias with 3-BP. MD Anderson's 3-BrOP appeared to demonstrate strong efficacy in lymphoma.
I think that the lower price point refers to  the abbreviated form of treatment with 3-BP--for those interested in focusing mainly on 3-BP and a few additional types of i.v.'s.  Not sure exactly what is included for a month's treatment for that cost.

Apparently Dr. Dickens would like to use even  more therapies to try to holistically care for each patient's needs--thus the additional treatments that are mentioned above (quoted by another member)--would be preferable  to help heal the individual patients and  thusly would be optimal. Remember, the body is very complex.  That would be the higher priced package since more treatments involved. etc.

But his willingness to accommodate those who cannot afford the more expensive route is commendable---and an incentive to begin 3-BP treatment with him.  We all hope that he has good success--for the patients and for further enlightenment about the usage of 3-BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 04:19 PM
Quote | Replythe clinic in Germany says it is 4000 euros for the first month..and  another 4000 euros for the weeks after the first month
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Wed Jul 15, 2015 04:22 PM
Quote | ReplySo bad our Dr. is no longer posting. A Canadian cancer clinic has had some nice case reports with DCA

http://medicorcancer.com/treatments/case-studies/

Reports vary - some partial responses, some complete responses, some stable diseases. And there are responses in a variety of different cancers - including glioblasstoma, melanoma, mesothelioma and ovarian cancer.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 15, 2015 05:06 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 8:19 PM mar60 wrote:

the clinic in Germany says it is 4000 euros for the first month..and  another 4000 euros for the weeks after the first month
3bp only or there are other IVs as well included?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 05:18 PM
Quote | ReplyOther treatments included except for the supplementsQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 15, 2015 05:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 6:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 15, 2015 5:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is very exciting news about the new price point for Dayspring. The last pricing we had from them was US$25,000 to US$30,000 per month of 3-BP treatment. For many that price was out of range. The new price of around US$15,000 should bring in considerable more business for them. Possibly even somewhat more downward movement on price could help boost their total revenues.

If they could establish efficacy before the formal treatment plan started (e.g. perhaps by giving one low dose treatment of 3-BP) [and the full payment was required], then even more people would be interested in their service.

I am somewhat surprised that more emphasis has not been placed on treating lymphomas and or leukemias with 3-BP. MD Anderson's 3-BrOP appeared to demonstrate strong efficacy in lymphoma.
I think that the lower price point refers to  the abbreviated form of treatment with 3-BP--for those interested in focusing mainly on 3-BP and a few additional types of i.v.'s.  Not sure exactly what is included for a month's treatment for that cost.

Apparently Dr. Dickens would like to use even  more therapies to try to holistically care for each patient's needs--thus the additional treatments that are mentioned above (quoted by another member)--would be preferable  to help heal the individual patients and  thusly would be optimal. Remember, the body is very complex.  That would be the higher priced package since more treatments involved. etc.

But his willingness to accommodate those who cannot afford the more expensive route is commendable---and an incentive to begin 3-BP treatment with him.  We all hope that he has good success--for the patients and for further enlightenment about the usage of 3-BP.
Taht was my assumption as well, that the lower cost related just to 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 15, 2015 05:19 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 9:18 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 15, 2015 6:49 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 15, 2015 5:32 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is very exciting news about the new price point for Dayspring. The last pricing we had from them was US$25,000 to US$30,000 per month of 3-BP treatment. For many that price was out of range. The new price of around US$15,000 should bring in considerable more business for them. Possibly even somewhat more downward movement on price could help boost their total revenues.

If they could establish efficacy before the formal treatment plan started (e.g. perhaps by giving one low dose treatment of 3-BP) [and the full payment was required], then even more people would be interested in their service.

I am somewhat surprised that more emphasis has not been placed on treating lymphomas and or leukemias with 3-BP. MD Anderson's 3-BrOP appeared to demonstrate strong efficacy in lymphoma.
I think that the lower price point refers to  the abbreviated form of treatment with 3-BP--for those interested in focusing mainly on 3-BP and a few additional types of i.v.'s.  Not sure exactly what is included for a month's treatment for that cost.

Apparently Dr. Dickens would like to use even  more therapies to try to holistically care for each patient's needs--thus the additional treatments that are mentioned above (quoted by another member)--would be preferable  to help heal the individual patients and  thusly would be optimal. Remember, the body is very complex.  That would be the higher priced package since more treatments involved. etc.

But his willingness to accommodate those who cannot afford the more expensive route is commendable---and an incentive to begin 3-BP treatment with him.  We all hope that he has good success--for the patients and for further enlightenment about the usage of 3-BP.
Taht was my assumption as well, that the lower cost related just to 3BP.
Dear Lord, I wish there was an edit button...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 15, 2015 06:26 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 8:19 PM mar60 wrote:

the clinic in Germany says it is 4000 euros for the first month..and  another 4000 euros for the weeks after the first month
Wishing you the very best--you had mentioned plans to  go in September--and, if possible, please keep us posted about how you are faring, etc.

Appreciate so much the information you have shared so far!
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 15, 2015 06:37 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 10:26 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 15, 2015 8:19 PM mar60 wrote:

the clinic in Germany says it is 4000 euros for the first month..and  another 4000 euros for the weeks after the first month
Wishing you the very best--you had mentioned plans to  go in September--and, if possible, please keep us posted about how you are faring, etc.

Appreciate so much the information you have shared so far!
Wishing you well and agreeing with Jetsparkle's post...please keep us informed of your progress.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 02:12 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 15, 2015 5:28 AM kcervantes wrote:

I found this website where you can order your own blood tests online!  $39 for an LDH test and theres a participating lab in my town :)

http://www.healthonelabs.com/index.cfm "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthonelabs.com/index.cfm " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthonelabs.com/index.cfm
Thanks for sharing this with us, Kim--I checked it out and found some near me, too.  Appreciate your researching it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Thu Jul 16, 2015 02:54 AM
Quote | ReplyJetsparkle,

Could you share the name of the clinic you're visiting in Spetember? Is there a wait list? Is it possible to be treated in August?

I'm fairly desperate to talk to someone about 3bp clinics..
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Thu Jul 16, 2015 02:56 AM
Quote | ReplySorry, my bad. I should say that I live in the UK, so I'm looking at Germany as a first option (though, like others, I have been quoted $16k from Daysprings
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 05:05 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 6:54 AM Caddy wrote:

Jetsparkle,

Could you share the name of the clinic you're visiting in Spetember? Is there a wait list? Is it possible to be treated in August?

I'm fairly desperate to talk to someone about 3bp clinics..
Caddy,

It is actually another person on this thread that is planning to go there--mar60.  Please take a look at her comments--one of them does mention the name of the clinic in Germany and some of the costs there. Then if you google it, look for the English translation and click that on--will help a bit.  Seems though they do not mention 3-BP on their site.  But apparently they are offering it according to mar60.  In any event, there should be a telelphone number, too.

Sometimes it can be difficult to discern the originator of the comments when some of us then reply to them--the names can easily get confused.

Wishing you the best--know exactly how you feel--please do look up mar60 and her comments.  Click on her name--then her comments will show up.

Always feel free to ask questions here--so many are willing to help if we can.

Best to you!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 05:11 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 6:54 AM Caddy wrote:

Jetsparkle,

Could you share the name of the clinic you're visiting in Spetember? Is there a wait list? Is it possible to be treated in August?

I'm fairly desperate to talk to someone about 3bp clinics..
Just looked it up for you:

http://kankerbehandelen.nl/

Seems as if based in the Netherlands somehow--but actual clinic is in Germany where patients would go to be treated with 3-BP, etc.

Hope this helps--let us know how you are faring, please!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Thu Jul 16, 2015 05:21 AM
Quote | ReplyThanks so much, jetsparkle. Their website does not mention 3bp by name (it's amazing the conspiracy of silence around this treatment!) but I've written to them.

Thanks so much for your help.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 05:29 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 9:21 AM Caddy wrote:

Thanks so much, jetsparkle. Their website does not mention 3bp by name (it's amazing the conspiracy of silence around this treatment!) but I've written to them.

Thanks so much for your help.
You are more then welcome.  We are all in this together and just want to help one another as much as possible.

Kindly keep us updated, if possible--and, again, wish you the best!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 09:51 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 1:44 PM mar60 wrote:

when you resd on thier website././go to "behandeleieng( trqtments) there they takk about a glucose blocker .  (. .)2. Wanneer uw kanker op een pet ct-scan zichtbaar is (97% van alle gevallen) kunnen wij een behandeling inzetten met een

glucose blokker. Deze behandeling geeft in vrijwel alle gevallen snel resultaat.

.....When i was ther they told me it is called 3BP and told me I coud fin the info on the website of the days springcancer clinic
Thank you, mar60.  So in Dutch, they are using the words "glucose blokker" in reference to their using 3-BP.  Glad to have  further clarification of that.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:01 AM
Quote | ReplyI am just wondering about some things...

Earlier on the thread, someone had mentioned that Dr. Williams rarely uses 3-BP anymore--is wary of a rebound-type of effect--something of that nature anyway.

Since the German clinics--and the one in AZ--have been using 3-BP for a while now, have they also experienced such?  Or because they are addressing the body in a more holistic and continued way, are the adjunctive therapies/diet they are using helping to prevent recurrence----or somehow, at the very least,  stabilize the health condition of the patients?

Wondering if they formulate 3-BP similarly also at these different locales--and if that, too, makes a difference in results.

Well, just my mind spinning around again!   So much to learn...
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:38 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 2:01 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I am just wondering about some things...

Earlier on the thread, someone had mentioned that Dr. Williams rarely uses 3-BP anymore--is wary of a rebound-type of effect--something of that nature anyway.

Since the German clinics--and the one in AZ--have been using 3-BP for a while now, have they also experienced such?  Or because they are addressing the body in a more holistic and continued way, are the adjunctive therapies/diet they are using helping to prevent recurrence----or somehow, at the very least,  stabilize the health condition of the patients?

Wondering if they formulate 3-BP similarly also at these different locales--and if that, too, makes a difference in results.

Well, just my mind spinning around again!   So much to learn...
I believe that Williams and Rosenberg have a number of additional therapies that they want you to have though...just like Dayspring. I was thinking about this myself last night. Wondering what the "dangers" they both suggested actually are.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:31 AM
Quote | ReplyMoonlitnight,

Could you tell me which clinics Williams and Rosenberg actually work at? (The has become a very long thread!)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:42 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 3:31 PM Caddy wrote:

Moonlitnight,

Could you tell me which clinics Williams and Rosenberg actually work at? (The has become a very long thread!)
Hi Caddy,

Mark Rosenberg: http://www.newhopeforcancer.org/

Jason Williams: www.cancerablation.com
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 01:50 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Would you advise using filtered water or distilled water for the topical formula?

Good advice about taking it slowly at first... and only one region initially.  Will put that information to good use!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Jul 16, 2015 03:22 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 5:50 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Would you advise using filtered water or distilled water for the topical formula?

Good advice about taking it slowly at first... and only one region initially.  Will put that information to good use!
We use distiled, Jet.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 16, 2015 04:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 7:22 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 16, 2015 5:50 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Would you advise using filtered water or distilled water for the topical formula?

Good advice about taking it slowly at first... and only one region initially.  Will put that information to good use!
We use distiled, Jet.
Distilled it will be then!  Thank you!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 01:02 AM
Quote | ReplyAh, I think I have to narrow my search to Europe. It's so hard to find people like this in Europe. I wrote to the clinic on the Dutch/German border, as there was minimal information on their website. I still haven't received a reply!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Jul 17, 2015 02:25 AM
Quote | ReplyCan you let me know where you source your 3BP ? i am in the UK
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Jul 17, 2015 03:18 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 17, 2015 5:02 AM Caddy wrote:

Ah, I think I have to narrow my search to Europe. It's so hard to find people like this in Europe. I wrote to the clinic on the Dutch/German border, as there was minimal information on their website. I still haven't received a reply!
Perhaps better to telephone them?  And then ask if there is someone who speaks English that could help you?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Jul 17, 2015 03:49 AM
Quote | ReplyYes, will do.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Fri Jul 17, 2015 05:19 AM
Quote | ReplyA fascinating idea occured to me just now.

We already have crowdfunded patients - so what about crowdfunded clinical trials? Is that possible? If it is, all we need is a clinical oncologist willing to do the trial for 3BP on 20-30 patients.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Fri Jul 17, 2015 08:53 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 17, 2015 9:19 AM Freyr wrote:

A fascinating idea occured to me just now.

We already have crowdfunded patients - so what about crowdfunded clinical trials? Is that possible? If it is, all we need is a clinical oncologist willing to do the trial for 3BP on 20-30 patients.
I am in! We need the perfect protocol or someone who can administer or ask patients to be administered remotely.

We rather try then let the beast take on.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Fri Jul 17, 2015 09:36 AM
Quote | ReplyThings have to move on sooner or later - if companies don't want to pay for studies, then the society has to - at first there should be a small trial and then a large randomized, double-blind trial to once for all assess the efficiacy of 3BP

Setting up a research organization dedicated to creating a cancer treatment based on Warburg effect may be worth considering too.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jul 17, 2015 02:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 17, 2015 7:18 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 17, 2015 5:02 AM Caddy wrote:

Ah, I think I have to narrow my search to Europe. It's so hard to find people like this in Europe. I wrote to the clinic on the Dutch/German border, as there was minimal information on their website. I still haven't received a reply!
Perhaps better to telephone them?  And then ask if there is someone who speaks English that could help you?
I asked the manager of the cllinic and he havent received your e-mail so maybe is good to contact him directly. I will send you a msg with his e-mail address.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Fri Jul 17, 2015 05:22 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Hi Daniel,

Can you please provide a source for the chinese version? We want to try topica application.

Mum is on Methyl Glyoxol, you mentioned during treatment to avoid natural substances and drugs. It is known when you take patients off MG, the beast becomes very aggressive. What do you suggest in such scenarios pls? Mum in addition takes tibetan herbs by Dr. Yeshi Dhonden, Beta 1 3d glucans, green juices, carrot juices, Iodine and green tea. She is on letrozole and zoledronic acid as traditional meds.

Do you think any of the above should be avoide? Can you please keep us posted on how your known cases of topica application are coming along?

Also, should we try the IV version or should we wait couple of more months to get the best tried protocol?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Fri Jul 17, 2015 05:24 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 16, 2015 6:56 AM Caddy wrote:

Sorry, my bad. I should say that I live in the UK, so I'm looking at Germany as a first option (though, like others, I have been quoted $16k from Daysprings
Hi Caddy,

Im in UK as well, can you please keep us posted if you find out the best way to have it in UK? I will keep you posted likewise.

Regards,

Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Andre-GC on Fri Jul 17, 2015 05:25 PM

Quote | Reply

On jul 17, 2015 9:23 Andre-GC wrote:

Please write to:

andre@kankerbehandelen.nl
Sorry, this was ment for the lady who wanted contact with the dutch/german clinic.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Fri Jul 17, 2015 05:31 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 17, 2015 9:19 AM Freyr wrote:

A fascinating idea occured to me just now.

We already have crowdfunded patients - so what about crowdfunded clinical trials? Is that possible? If it is, all we need is a clinical oncologist willing to do the trial for 3BP on 20-30 patients.
We are not alone! Group called MET UP has been formed.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/848080
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 17, 2015 07:06 PM
Quote | ReplyGood idea about the MET UP group-- perhaps they should have called it FED UP! Cancer advocacy groups have simply not done a good job advocating for people with cancer. The AIDS community was able to create effective treatments for HIV within not too many years after the emergence of the epidemic. They simply rewrote the rule book to move things forward.

It is disgraceful 20 years after curing lab models of metastatic cancer we have not yet cured cancer in humans. It is now 15 years since the promise of 3-BP was first demonstrated.

Activism could make a valuable contribution in moving us closer to a cure. Publishing even a few more 3-BP patients would be very much welcome.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 17, 2015 09:07 PM
Quote | ReplyAnyone know how to leave a comment on the medscape site ? Might be interesting for them to know of 3-BP! Something for them to get FED UP about!
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Sat Jul 18, 2015 04:14 AM
Quote | ReplyYap - AIDS went from a 100% death sentence to a disease that can be successfully managed for years - but what role did patients play in research as opposed to pharma companies.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sat Jul 18, 2015 02:15 PM
Quote | ReplySeem to be getting a rash from the topical on my neck
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Jul 18, 2015 02:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 18, 2015 6:15 PM Genelle wrote:

Seem to be getting a rash from the topical on my neck
Could you please explain more here or on email?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun Jul 19, 2015 09:21 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 17, 2015 9:22 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Hi Daniel,

Can you please provide a source for the chinese version? We want to try topica application.

Mum is on Methyl Glyoxol, you mentioned during treatment to avoid natural substances and drugs. It is known when you take patients off MG, the beast becomes very aggressive. What do you suggest in such scenarios pls? Mum in addition takes tibetan herbs by Dr. Yeshi Dhonden, Beta 1 3d glucans, green juices, carrot juices, Iodine and green tea. She is on letrozole and zoledronic acid as traditional meds.

Do you think any of the above should be avoide? Can you please keep us posted on how your known cases of topica application are coming along?

Also, should we try the IV version or should we wait couple of more months to get the best tried protocol?
Hi, I sent you a source for the Chinese version.

Maybe you can share more here about your experience with MG. What was the source? What was the protocol?

Regarding what should go and what not with 3BP there is a lot to say and most have been discussed here at various points in time. In general you want to avoid drugs or suppements that may inhibit MCTs, such as Statins, Ibuprofen, Quercetin, etc. Just do some research and see if anything that you are using now is an MCT1 inhibitor.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:10 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 19, 2015 1:21 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 17, 2015 9:22 PM sumeetnag wrote:

On Jul 14, 2015 10:49 PM Danielus wrote:

For topica appication I woud buy even a Chinese version. For oral and nebuized I would prefer a Western version from e.g. Sigma and for IV either this or the version from German pharma but it may be difficult for you to access (you will need to contact a Dr, that will buy it for you).

In two weeks I woud expect to see results for topica applications but taket it easy. Start with one region only and see the reaction. A friend used 3BP for topical application with teh results I mentioned ... he aso took oral form but i belive it was the topical in this case. Al the best to your mum!
Hi Daniel,

Can you please provide a source for the chinese version? We want to try topica application.

Mum is on Methyl Glyoxol, you mentioned during treatment to avoid natural substances and drugs. It is known when you take patients off MG, the beast becomes very aggressive. What do you suggest in such scenarios pls? Mum in addition takes tibetan herbs by Dr. Yeshi Dhonden, Beta 1 3d glucans, green juices, carrot juices, Iodine and green tea. She is on letrozole and zoledronic acid as traditional meds.

Do you think any of the above should be avoide? Can you please keep us posted on how your known cases of topica application are coming along?

Also, should we try the IV version or should we wait couple of more months to get the best tried protocol?
Hi, I sent you a source for the Chinese version.

Maybe you can share more here about your experience with MG. What was the source? What was the protocol?

Regarding what should go and what not with 3BP there is a lot to say and most have been discussed here at various points in time. In general you want to avoid drugs or suppements that may inhibit MCTs, such as Statins, Ibuprofen, Quercetin, etc. Just do some research and see if anything that you are using now is an MCT1 inhibitor.
Hi Daniel,

The MG protocol is non disclosure from the scientist. So all we get are bottles with dosage mentioned. After the first 3 months they reduce the strength of dosage. MG if it works, it works like a charm. Unfortunately, in mums case it only worked on some of her mets. The SUV levels went drastically down or vanished in 7 out of her 11 lesions. It has to be taken in a space of 5 hours, very important not a single dose is missed.

On 3 bp, I am in touch with Andre from the german-dutch clinic, fantastic guy. Sounds very helpful. I will keep you posted on how we get along.

Regards,

Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:45 AM
Quote | ReplySumeet,

I'm also in touch with Andre (and Daniel). Let's keep sharing info!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:03 AM
Quote | ReplyWere you going to take MG at the same time as 3-BP?

Here's a Liposomal EGFR targetted form of 3-BP

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501223/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:26 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 19, 2015 3:03 PM Jcancom wrote:

Were you going to take MG at the same time as 3-BP?

Here's a Liposomal EGFR targetted form of 3-BP

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501223/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501223/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501223/
Hey J, would that be a good thing to do?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 19, 2015 01:12 PM
Quote | ReplySeveral of the elements of joint MG 3-BP treatment appear to be interlinked. Paracetamol bringing down glutathione levels, curcumin powerfully bringing down GLO1 levels, MG and 3-BP both decreasing down ATP levels. The combination has at least some plausibility. I am interested whether any on the thread have tried it.

Might be interesting for those on the thread to consider liposomal curcumin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18946510

The problem of course remains that the basic science in exploring such combinations is best donw in lab models and not people. It would never be entirely clear whether combining the above chemicals would be safe and effective.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 02:18 PM
Quote | ReplyI contacted Ivar Verhoevens father .. this is the info he gave me: A translational study “case report” on the small molecule

“energy blocker” 3-bromopyruvate (3BP) as a potent

anticancer agent: from bench side to bedside

Y. H. Ko & H. A. Verhoeven & M. J. Lee & D. J. Corbin &

T. J. Vogl & P. L. Pedersen

Received: 9 January 2012 /Accepted: 14 January 2012 / Published online: 11 February 2012

1. The Author(s) 2012. This article is published with open access at Springerlink.com

Abstract The small alkylating molecule, 3-bromopyruvate

(3BP), is a potent and specific anticancer agent. 3BP is differ-

ent in its action from most currently available chemo-drugs.

Thus, 3BP targets cancer cells’ energy metabolism, both its

high glycolysis (“Warburg Effect”) and mitochondrial oxida-

tive phosphorylation. This inhibits/ blocks total energy pro-

duction leading to a depletion of energy reserves. Moreover,

3BP as an “Energy Blocker”, is very rapid in killing such cells.

This is in sharp contrast to most commonly used anticancer

agents that usually take longer to show a noticeable effect. In

addition, 3BP at its effective concentrations that kill cancer

cells has little or no effect on normal cells. Therefore, 3BP can

be considered a member, perhaps one of the first, of a new

class of anticancer agents. Following 3BP’s discovery as a

novel anticancer agent in vitro in the Year 2000 (Published in

Ko et al. Can Lett 173:83–91, 2001), and also as a highly

effective and rapid anticancer agent in vivo shortly thereafter

(Ko et al. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 324:269–275,

2004), its efficacy as a potent anticancer agent in humans

was demonstrated. Here, based on translational research, we

report results of a case study in a young adult cancer patient

with fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma. Thus, a bench

side discovery in the Department of Biological Chemistry at

Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine was taken

effectively to bedside treatment at Johann Wolfgang Goethe

University Frankfurt/Main Hospital, Germany. The results

obtained hold promise for 3BP as a future cancer therapeutic

without apparent cyto-toxicity when formulated properly.

P. L. Pedersen (\*)

Department of Biological Chemistry,

Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine,

725 North Wolfe Street,

Baltimore, MD 21205-2185, USA

e-mail: ppederse@jhmi.edu

H. A. Verhoeven

Bioscience, Plant Research International, Wageningen University

and Research Centre,

Droevendaalsesteeg 1,

6708PB Wageningen, The Netherlands

M. J. Lee

Department of Internal Medicine,

Seoul National University Hospital,

28 Yungun-dong, Chongno-gu,

Seoul 110-744, South Korea

D. J. Corbin

Oncology Foundation,

New York, NY, USA

T. J. Vogl

Institut für Diagnostische und Interventionelle Radiologie,

Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt / Main,

Theodor-Stern-Kai 7,

60596 Frankfurt am Main, Germany

P. L. Pedersen

Department of Oncology and Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center,

Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine,

The Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Building, 401 North Broadway,

Baltimore, MD 21287, USA

P. L. Pedersen

Center for Metabolism and Obesity Research,

Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine,

Baltimore, MD, USA

Present Address:

Y. H. Ko

Cancer Cure Med LLC,

300 Redland Court, Suite 212,

Owings Mills, MD 21117, USA

164 J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170

Keywords 3-bromopyruvate . Cancer. Liver cancer.

Fibrolamellar carcinoma . Mitochondria . Warburg Effect .

Hexokinase 2 . Positron Emission Tomography (PET)

Introduction

As depicted in Fig. 1, the alkylating agent 3BP covalently

pyruvylates certain proteins generally at cysteine residues.

The pyruvylated proteins, e.g., isocitrate lyase (Ko and

McFadden 1990) and an aldolase (Meloche and Monti

1967) often lose their biological activity. The “hands on”

discovery by coauthor YHK in the year 2000 of 3BP as a

potent and specific anticancer agent, published in 2001 (Ko

et al. 2001), was based on results of much previous work on

cancer metabolism in the laboratory of the corresponding

author (PLP) (Reviewed in Pedersen 1978; Pedersen 2007a;

Pedersen 2007b; Mathupala et al. 2009; Mathupala et al.

2010 ), and on YHK’s prior graduate (M.S., Ph.D.) work in

enzymology at Washington State University (Ko and

McFadden 1990; Abeysinghe et al. 1991).

Assigned by coauthor PLP the role of identifying (dis-

covering) an anticancer agent specifically targeted at energy

metabolism, YHK knew that the essential criteria for success

(Pedersen 2007a) were to find an agent that 1) leaves normal

cells intact while 2) inhibiting both the most common bio-

chemical phenotype of cancer cells, i.e., the “Warburg Effect”,

elevated glycolysis even in the presence of oxygen (Warburg

1956), and also mitochondrial ATP production. Then, both

energy (ATP) production factories (mitochondria and

Fig. 1 Pyruvylation of Proteins with a Novel Small Anticancer Agent,

3-Bromopyruvate (3BP). 3BP, a small alkylating agent, pyruvylates

proteins by releasing bromide ion (covalent modification). In general,

the pyruvylation site on proteins is cysteine. Pyruvylated proteins often

lose their biological functions resulting in cancer cell death. At the

bottom of the reaction scheme, a space filling model of 3BP is reflected

on the mirror as a skeletal formula structure (BrCH2-CO-COO-

glycolysis) of the cancer cells would be destroyed and normal

cells would remain intact. After an extensive study of the

literature, YHK selected only a few candidate compounds

(<20) for the initial screen, and of these showed that only

one, i.e., 3-bromopyruvate (3BP), met the two criteria noted

above (Ko et al. 2001). Later YHK would lead a team of

investigators in an effort to test 3BP’s capacity to cure rats

bearing large solid tumors. Significantly and surprisingly, all

the treated animals were cured, i.e., all tumors were eradicated

(Ko et al. 2004). Moreover, eradication occurred quickly

(<1 month). Thereafter, the animals lived out a normal life

without return of cancer (Ko et al. 2004).

cancer cells that exhibit a “Warburg Effect” is quite different

in its action from most currently available chemo-drugs that

frequently target either some aspect of nucleic acid metab-

olism or signal transduction pathways. Rather, 3BP, as noted

above, targets a cancer cell’s energy metabolism, i.e., both

glycolysis and mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation (Ko

et al. 2001). This inhibits total energy (ATP) production and

depletes all energy reserves. This happens quickly (within

minutes) and with little or no effect on most normal cells or

the animals. In contrast, most commonly used anticancer

agents take a longer period of time (weeks/months) to show

a noticeable effect. Therefore, 3BP as a small molecule and

covalent drug, is a very potent, rapid and quite specific

anticancer agent (Reviewed in Mathupala et al. 2009, 2010).

many pipeline cancer drugs under study by major pharmaceu-

tical companies are minimally effective (Jarvis 2011). There-

fore, these companies are urgently looking for novel

candidates to combine with their pipeline drug(s). In contrast

to 3BP that targets cancer cells’ energy production factories

(Ko et al. 2001), many of these pipeline drugs are based on

targeting mTOR/ PI3K in cell signaling pathways (Jarvis

2011). Thus, the focus on signal transduction pathways for

anticancer drug discovery may be waning. In addition, it was

also reported (Guterman 2011) that a growing group of

researchers from both academe and companies have initiated

searches for covalent drug candidates. Clearly, the small mol-

ecule 3BP meets this specification as a promising anticancer

agent as it is in fact a small molecule and it does bind

covalently with efficacy and specificity to the active sites of

certain enzymes (Staub and Denes 1967; Meloche and Monti

1967; Ko and McFadden 1990; Ko et al. 2001).

author’s laboratory (Bustamante and Pedersen 1977)

reported that the “Warburg Effect” common to most cancers

is due in large part to their overexpression of hexokinase 2

(HK2) that binds to the outer mitochondrial membrane. This

likely helped lead in part to the most common imaging

technique used today to detect cancer throughout the world,

i.e., positron emission tomography (PET). Significantly,

)

Significantly, 3BP as an “Energy Blocker” specific for

Interestingly, and only very recently it was reported that

Significantly, much earlier work from the corresponding

J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170 165

Fig. 2 Diagnosis of Cancer

after Detection by PET

Imaging. a Detection of cancer

by Positron Emission

Tomography (PET) imaging is

based on highly overexpressed

Hexokinase 2 (HK2) in cancers.

PET imaging is used widely to

detect cancers which consume

glucose avidly. A glucose

analogue, 2-fluoro-2-deoxy

glucose (18FDG), is phosphor-

ylated by hexokinase 2 at the

6th carbon with ATP to become

2-fluoro-2-deoxy glucose 6-

phosphate (18FDG-6-P). Accu-

mulation of the metabolically

inactive 18FDG-6-P is detected

by PET scanning imaging de-

vice and helps locate metaboli-

cally active cancers in the body.

b–g Confirmation of presence

of metabolically active cancers

in the patient’s liver, bile duct,

and lymph nodes based on PET

scan imaging. Descending

transverse axial plane views of

the patient’s liver are shown af-

ter PET imaging (b–g). Abbre-

viations are: RL (right liver

lobe), LL (left liver lobe), and K

(kidneys). The highly metabol-

ically active areas are indicated

by blue arrows with numbers in

c, d, and e 1 (bile duct area), 2–

5 (lymph nodes). In addition,

there are highly active focal

regions in the right liver lobe as

shown in f. The trace 18FDG is

eliminated through the kidneys

as evidenced by bright spots

detection of cancer by PET imaging is based on overexpres-

sion of mitochondrial bound HK2 (Fig. 2a). In this imaging

method a labelled glucose analogue, 2-18fluoro-2-deoxy

glucose (18FDG), is phosphorylated by HK2 at the 6th

carbon with ATP to become 2-18fluoro-2-deoxy glucose 6-

phosphate (18FDG-6-P). Such labelled FDG compounds

were first developed by Ido and colleagues (Ido et al.

1978). Significantly, 18FDG-6-P is metabolically inactive

and not further metabolized. Thus, its accumulation is

detected by the PET scanning imaging and helps locate

metabolically active (highly glycolytic) cancers.

Hence, it is suggested that PET scan positive cancer types

may be benefited after treatment with a patented and pro-

prietary formulation of 3BP. It is worth noting that unfor-

mulated 3BP may be harmful in some cases.

A case report

Herein, we present a 16-year-old Caucasian male with a

palpable mass over the right upper quadrant of the abdomen.

This patient was initially presented to the emergency

166 J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170

department of the Jeroen Bosch hospital in den Bosch, the

Netherlands. His presenting symptom was abdominal pain

localized to the spleen. His body temperature was 34.6°C at

first presentation and his blood chemistry revealed high values

of the liver enzymes alanine transaminase (ALT), aspartate

transaminase (AST), and gamma glutamyl transpeptidase

(GGT), indicating liver abnormality / damage. He was

Fig. 3 Monitoring Blood

Ammonia, Nausea, Uric Acid,

and Urea during 3BP

Treatments. a Blood Ammonia

Levels (Left Axis) and Nausea

(Right Axis) during 3BP

Treatments. Each 3BP

treatment is indicated at the top

of the graph in red arrows and

numbers. Nausea was

determined as the number of

vomiting episodes per week

during the entire treatment

period and is depicted in the

blue graph. The greatest

number of nauseous episodes

was observed after the third

treatment. This coincided with

the patient’s increased ill

feeling. Similar spikes were

noted directly following

treatment 5 and 6, but with

rapid recovery. These nauseous

episodes gradually decreased,

and the patient felt much better

after about 20 weeks. Blood

ammonia levels are indicated in

the green graph. Interestingly,

an increase of blood ammonia

levels followed the second,

third and fourth treatments and

correlated with an increase in

nauseous episodes. Then, blood

ammonia levels and nauseous

episodes began decreasing

following subsequent 3BP

treatments. b Comparison of

Ammonia Levels with Urea and

Uric acid Levels in Blood.

Ammonia levels (green, left

axis) were compared with both

urea (pink, right axis) and uric

acid (purple, right axis) levels

in blood as a function of 3BP

treatment time line. Note that

during 3BP treatment ammonia

levels fluctuated more than

those of urea and uric acid

hospitalized immediately and evaluated by Computed To-

mography (CT), Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), liver

biopsy, echo imaging, and PET scanning. The PET scan

suggested that the patient had very diffuse and metabolically

active tumors in his liver (Fig. 2b and g). Indeed, all tests

indicated primary liver cancer of the fibrolamellar carcinoma

form (FLC). A second opinion was requested and provided by

J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170 167

Fig. 4 Comparison of the CT images of the patient’s abdominal area

before and after 3BP Treatment. Selected pairs of transverse axial CT

scans at identical positions in the abdomen immediately after treatment

with two cytostatics (left images, considered as “before 3BP treat-

ment”) and after the 9th treatment of 3BP (right images): In a Lipio-

dol® accumulations are indicated by black asterisks. They are

dispersed throughout all sections of the liver (L), especially in the right

lobe, indicating excellent localization and containment. Enlarged para-

mesenteric and coeliac lymph nodes are visualized in c, right under the

green asterisk. The spleen (S) was enlarged due to complete blocking

of the portal vein by a thrombus. This blocking was compensated by

the Erasmus Medical Centre in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. It

was confirmed that the abdominal pain was caused by a spleen

infarct, induced by the pressure of the tumor on the blood

vessels supplying the spleen. This resulted in splenic enlarge-

ment (Fig 4a and 4c) and some necrosis (Data not shown). The

patient had no history of hepatitis and no positive tests for

hepatitis.

There is no known treatment for FLC except transplan-

tation, and the patient did not fulfill the requirements for this

process due to the presence of tumor in the choleductus and

spinal lymph nodes. Right after the diagnosis, Sorafenib had

been approved for primary HCC patients as an orphan drug.

Treatment with Sorafenib was started, varying the doses from

200, 400, to 800 mg/day. However, due to lack of experience

with such young patients, the treatment outcome was carefully

monitored and stopped according to the manufacturer’s in-

struction when ALT and /or AST values exceeded the tolera-

ble values. Initial results with Sorafenib were encouraging.

Thus, tumor growth appeared to have halted during the first

formation of several arterial shunts (not presented in these images).

After the 9th 3BP treatment, the images on the right were obtained. No

Lipiodol® was used during 3BP treatment and subsequently no such

signals are present in these images. Tumors had become necrotic (b

and d) and encapsulated and showed fibrosis. Lymph nodes appeared

stable in size and shape. The spleen size was drastically reduced. The

ascites marked as “1” was evident before and after treatment. The blue

arrow indicates the feeding tube present before 3BP treatment. After

3BP treatment, the patient was able to consume much more food and

the feeding tube became unnecessary and removed

2 months of Sorafenib application, even with some regression

of tumor volume. However, after 6 months, CT scans indicated

a renewed expansion of the tumor’s mass, and Sorafenib

treatment was halted. By now, the health condition of the

patient had deteriorated, in fact, so far that he could not

consume sufficient amounts of food to sustain life. On the

basis of this condition, a duodenal feeding tube was installed

and continuous (24 h) enteral feeding was started. The caloric

intake was adjusted to 2000–3000 kCalories per day.

While the patient’s health was deteriorating, a contact

was established with research scientists (coauthors PLP

and YHK) at the John’s Hopkins University, School of

Medicine (Year 2008) to learn about their promising experi-

mental anticancer agent, 3BP. Other contacts were also made

with TJV (coauthor) at the University of Frankfurt for the

application of 3BP by a Transcatheter Arterial ChemoEmbo-

lization (TACE) delivery method. Permission was obtained

from the Ethics committee of the University of Frankfurt for

the use of 3BP on this young male patient with FLC. The

168 J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170

patient’s parents signed the necessary form of consent and the

patient himself agreed to the treatment.

While waiting for the permission from the Ethics Com-

mission and in view of his severe situation, it was decided

that it would be essential to treat the patient as soon as

possible with the currently approved cytostatics by TACE

in order to halt the rapidly progressing tumor. Then, the first

TACE was performed with Gemcitabine and Cisplatin on

January 26, 2009. After delivery of these cytostatics, the blood

vessels were blocked temporarily by EmboCept®. Then, the

tumor locations were viewed immediately by infusion of

Lipiodol® followed by a CT scan. Due to cyto-toxicity, this

was the first and last use of these two chemo-drugs. Likewise,

the use of Lipiodol® was not continued during 3BP treatment

due to a possible interaction between Lipiodol® and 3BP. One

month later, permission from the Ethics committee was

obtained. The patient was treated immediately via TACE with

specially formulated 3BP (patented and proprietary) twice on

the first day of treatment (February 26, 2009), a total dose

250 mg. More clearly, the delivery was bolus, meaning a rapid

push of the entire dose into the artery over just a few minutes.

Therefore, the 3BP delivery can be called a ‘Transcatheter

Intra-Arterial Bolus Injection’ followed by a brief emboliza-

tion with EmboCept®. The patient did not experience any

discomfort during the first treatment with 3BP. The only

discomfort was caused by the fact that the second infusion

took place one hour after the first, and the local anesthetic was

becoming less effective. No other adverse effects were noted

during the normal 4 h recovery period and the patient left the

hospital at 6:00 pm. The patient felt very hungry and wished to

go to dinner. It appeared that the treatment may have increased

the patient’s appetite. This was an initial sign and hope for

relying less on the enteral feeding tube. Indeed, the 3BP

treatment helped the patient consume sufficient calories.

Due to a large tumor burden at the presentation, it was

determined to try to obtain a very high dosing with 3BP in

the first treatment month. A second treatment was scheduled

2 weeks after the first, the third after 4 weeks. After the

second application (128 mg), which went without any acute

problems, the patient started to get disturbed. Four days

later, the patient went into a hepatic coma and was hospi-

talized. Blood chemistry revealed an elevated level of AST

and ALT, but not far beyond his usual levels. On the other

hand, the blood ammonia level was about 120 μM (Fig. 3a

and b, green graph), more than the maximum physiological

levels for adults and children, 21–50 μM and 41–80 μM,

respectively. The urea level was low (Fig. 3b, pink graph),

an average of 5 mM, indicating a still functioning nitrogen

detoxification of the liver and kidneys. Similarly, the blood

uric acid remained constant at about 0.2 mM as depicted in

Fig. 3b, purple graph. The normal ranges for blood urea

nitrogen and uric acid are 2.1–7.1 mM and 0.2–0.5 mM,

respectively.

The diagnosis was hepatic coma, which usually results in

death. It was suspected that the patient was undergoing a

potential tumor lysis syndrome (TLS) after three 3BP treat-

ments. Without additional help from the hospital, the patient

was allowed to leave the hospital by ambulance and trans-

ferred back home. After 4 h at home, he began to show signs

of recovery, and by nightfall, he was completely back to

baseline, with most of his mental capabilities functioning.

The recovery continued over the next day. The patient

was able to consume food and have social interactions with

his friends, without any memory of the comatic phase.

The treatment team, in close communication with the

patient and his parents, and with their consent, decided to

continue with the 3BP treatment as scheduled, with modifi-

cations in which the blood chemistry was carefully moni-

tored. Especially, ammonia, urea, and potassium were added

to the weekly schedule for monitoring. A medication for

reducing blood ammonia in liver cancer patients, Hepamerz

was prescribed (6000 mg/day) and used for the patient as

needed, but always following application of 3BP.

Elevations of the patient’s blood ammonia levels (left

axis of Fig. 3a, green graph), were associated with nausea

(right axis of Fig. 3a, blue graph). Urea (pink, right axis of

Fig. 3b), and uric acid (purple, right axis of Fig. 3b) levels

were followed during the entire 3BP treatments.

The ammonia levels following treatment rapidly rose and

gradually went down during the following weeks. The nau-

seous episodes (defined here as “vomiting”) preceded the

rise in blood ammonia levels after each 3BP treatment. The

greatest number of nauseous episodes was observed after

the third treatment. This coincided with the patient’s in-

creased ill feeling. Similar spikes were noted directly fol-

lowing treatments 5 and 6, but with rapid recovery. These

nauseous episodes gradually decreased, and the patient felt

much better after about 140 days (Fig. 3a).

As indicated in Fig. 3b, ammonia levels fluctuated more

than those of urea and uric acid during 3BP treatment. This

is very interesting as FLC is eosinophilic which is indicative

of a higher content of cellular protein than of nucleic acids.

Therefore, it is suggested that the rise in blood ammonia

following 3BP treatment was due to FLC cell death, releas-

ing considerable amounts of cellular proteins. This elevation

of blood ammonia may be characteristic of TLS of FLC as

TLS is generally diagnosed by acute elevations of uric acid,

potassium, and phosphorus in other cancers.

The effective killing of FLC by 3BP was more evident by

comparing the CT images before (Fig. 4a and c) and after

the 9th 3BP treatment (Fig. 4b and d). In Fig. 4a, Lipiodol®

accumulation after TACE is indicated by black asterisks.

They are dispersed throughout all sections of the liver (L),

especially in the right lobe. The CT images depicted in

Fig. 4b and d were obtained in the absence of Lipiodol®.

Hence, these images do not show the bright signals. Pre 3BP

J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170 169

treatment enlarged paramesenteric and coeliac lymph nodes

are visualized in Fig. 4c, right below the green asterisk. The

pre 3BP treatment spleen (S) in Fig. 4a was enlarged due to

complete blocking of the portal vein by a thrombus, when

compared with the post 3BP treatment size of the spleen in

Fig. 4b. Likewise, the spleen in Fig. 4c (pre-treatment) is

much larger than that of Fig. 4d (post-treatment), document-

ing that the spleen size was drastically reduced after 3BP

treatments. The portal vein thrombosis blockage was com-

pensated by formation of several arterial shunts. Necrotic

areas due to tumor death after 3BP treatment were evident as

shown in Fig. 4b and d, and the tumor areas were encapsu-

lated and showed fibrosis. Lymph nodes were stable in size

and shape. Regeneration of liver tissue was also observed

and the data are being analyzed for future publication.

The ascites as indicated as “1” in Fig. 4b and d were

evident before and after treatment. The blue arrow indicates

the feeding tube present before 3BP treatment. After 3BP

treatment, the patient was able to consume much more food,

so the feeding tube became unnecessary and was removed.

Pre existing ascites and edema continued to be a major

problem for the patient, and despite daily exercise, his

mobility continued to be limited. However, during the sum-

mer of 2009 he started to regain his physical strength and

went out in his wheelchair regularly for a promenade. In

addition, the patient celebrated his 18th birthday at his home

surrounded by many friends and family members on Sep-

tember 9, 2009. The photo of the patient in Fig. 5 was taken

on his birthday.

At the end of October 2009, a part of the discomforting

ascites was removed by CT-guided puncture. About 1 l of

ascites fluid was removed and sent to the pathology lab for

cellular analysis. An outcome of an increased lymphocyte

count with some mesothelial cells, but no malignant cells

was obtained. This lack of tumor cells in the ascites sug-

gested that the tumors in the liver were well encapsulated

and dead. In December 2009 the edema and ascites were

becoming more problematic. Liver functions were over-

loaded due to rapid destruction of the tumor cells resulting

in the liver’s inefficient detoxification. Despite regeneration

of the healthy liver cells, this process apparently could not

compensate adequately for the rapid destruction of tumor

cells and could not detoxify the dead cancer cell debris fast

enough. Consequently, the blood albumin levels were de-

creasing. The patient passed away 2 years after his first

diagnosis due to an overload of liver function.

The patient (Fig. 5) was able to survive a much longer

period than expected with an improved quality of life, which

is clearly attributable to the treatment with 3BP.

Fig. 5 Fighting against immortal cancer cells with immortal spirits of

phoenix, Yvar Verhoeven, and 3-bromopyruvate (3BP). The photo-

graph of the cancer patient (Yvar Verhoeven) in this Case Report was

poised with a novel anticancer agent, 3-bromopyruvate (3BP) and his

favorite legendary immortal bird, phoenix. The picture was taken on

his 18th birthday, September 09, 2009 (09-09-09) at his home in the

Netherlands, after his 7th treatment with 3BP. This was a very special

day as he had been told that he would never make it to his 17th

birthday. In the morning of this special day, the patient’s parents were

awakened with Yvar’s “Happy Birthday” song hummed to himself.

The silver necklace with a silver 3BP molecule as a space filling model

on him was hand-made by his sister. The gold necklace with a copy of

the cartouche of Tut Ankh Amen (rise of the 18th dynasty) was given

to him by a relative of a deceased cancer patient. The immortal

legendary bird, phoenix was very much favored by Yvar and the

phoenix as depicted was tattooed on his upper arm at that time. It

was his personal wish that immortal spirits of phoenix and himself will

help win against the seemingly “immortal” cancer cells. Fight “immor-

tality” of cancer cells with “immortal” spirits and 3BP

Conclusions

1) 3BP is an inhibitor of cancers’ two energy sources, gly-

colysis and oxidative phosphorylation via mitochondria. A

patented and proprietary formulation of 3BP is safe at the

concentrations (2–3.5 mg/kg body weight) employed for

TACE delivery in humans. No major cyto-toxicities of this

specially formulated 3BP have been observed. Please note

that unformulated 3BP may be harmful in some cases.

2) Specially formulated 3BP is efficacious in killing fibro-

lamellar hepatocellular carcinoma (FLC) tumor tissue.

3) Liver regeneration is not inhibited by 3BP treatment.

4) The rate of tumor necrosis due to 3BP treatment seems

to exceed all known cytostatic drugs.

5) Careful monitoring of blood ammonia, uric acid, and

urea levels is paramount during 3BP treatment.

6) The levels of albumin and billirubins are also important

parameters in assessing liver functions and in predicting

a patient’s survival during 3BP treatment.

7) In future clinical trials, earlier stage cancer patients with

a lower tumor burden and positive PET scans may have

170 J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170

a much better outcome following treatment with spe-

cially formulated 3BP.

Acknowledgements Work reported here was supported in part by NIH

grants CA 10951 and CA 08018 to PLP. YHK is very grateful to PLP’s lab

members, her Ph.D. thesis advisor, Dr. Bruce McFadden (Washington State

University, Pullman, WA), Dr. André Goffeau (Université Catholique de

Louvain, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium), Dr. Scott Mogel (Aalto Scientific,

Ltd., Carlsbad, CA), Dr. Pam Meyer (Marbella, Spain), the honorable

Judge Gregory Hopkins (Aurora, CO), Moshe Rogosnitzky (Adjuvant

Medical Solutions, Telz Stone, Israel), Ilona McClintick (Baltimore,

MD), and the Grow family (Murray, UT) who have been very supportive

of her efforts to fight cancer. The authors are very grateful also to David

Blum (JHU, Baltimore, MD) for his assistance with the artwork, Jos

Kaldenhoven (Schijndel, the Netherlands) for photography and his exper-

tise as a nurse, Dr. Dwight McKee (Life Plus International in Batesville,

AR) and Dr. George Sack (JHU, Baltimore, MD) for carefully reading the

Case Report and for helpful comments.

Open Access This article is distributed under the terms of the Creative

Commons Attribution License which permits any use, distribution, and

reproduction in any medium, provided the original author(s) and the

source are credited.

References

Abeysinghe SI, Baker PJ, Rice DW, Rodgers HF, Stillman TJ, Ko YH,

McFadden BA, Nimmo BG (1991) J Mol Biol 220:13–16

Bustamante E, Pedersen PL (1977) Proc Natl Acad Sci 74:3735–3739

Guterman L (2011) Chem Eng News 89:15–19

Ido T, Wan CN, Casella V, Fowler JS, Wolf AP, Reivich M, Kuhl DE

(1978) J Lab Comp Radiopharma 14:175–182

Jarvis LM (2011) Chem Eng News 89:15–19

Ko YH, McFadden BA (1990) Arch Biochem Biophys 278:373–

380

Ko YH, Pedersen PL, Geschwind JF (2001) Cancer Lett 173:83–91

Ko YH, Smith BL, Wang Y, Pomper MG, Rini DA, Torbenson MS,

Hullihen J, Pedersen PL (2004) Biochem Biophys Res Commun

324:269–275

Mathupala SP, Ko YH, Pedersen PL (2009) Semin Cancer Biol 19:17–24

Mathupala SP, Ko YH, Pedersen PL (2010) Biochim Biophys Acta

1797:1225–1230

Meloche HP, Monti CT (1967) Biochemistry 6:2273–2280

Pedersen PL (1978) Prog Exp Tumor Res 22:190–274

Pedersen PL (2007a) J Bioenerg Biomemb 39:1–12

Pedersen PL (2007b) J Bioenerg Biomemb 39:211–222

Staub M, Denes G (1967) Biochim Biophys Acta 132:519–521

Warburg O (1956) Science 124:269–270
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 02:22 PM
Quote | Replyhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#search/3bp/14e813ba
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Sun Jul 19, 2015 04:22 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 19, 2015 2:45 PM Caddy wrote:

Sumeet,

I'm also in touch with Andre (and Daniel). Let's keep sharing info!
Sure Caddy. Please feel free to send a private reply.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Sun Jul 19, 2015 05:35 PM
Quote | ReplyMar60:

Could you explain what this links to please?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 06:02 PM
Quote | ReplyI think the link does not work..i wanted to show tw document wich Ivar Verhoeven " s father has send to me..i copied the text already but there are pictures in this document..but i dont know how to show them
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Mon Jul 20, 2015 03:13 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 19, 2015 10:02 PM mar60 wrote:

I think the link does not work..i wanted to show tw document wich Ivar Verhoeven " s father has send to me..i copied the text already but there are pictures in this document..but i dont know how to show them
mar60: You can copy them into a word document or do printscreen of every page and copy them to a word document or forward the email to me and I can do it for you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:17 PM
Quote | ReplyI just realized that for high effectivness of 3BP in most cases, we need to use a glyco inhibitor that doesnt require MCT1 as well, such as 2DG.

The reason why is nicelly explained below, and that is hypoxia:

Monocarboxylate transporter subtypes may be specifically expressed among tumor cell types, with MCT1 being more abundant in cells with the potential for lactate oxidation while MCT4 is restricted to the more glycolytic cells. SiHa cells, which were found to be able to take in lactate, express abundant MCT1 and little MCT4, while the reverse was found for the more glycolytic cell line WiDr [68]. Hypoxia, specifically HIF-1α, will upregulate MCT4 mRNA and protein expression while having no effect on MCT1 expression [128]. Our laboratory has seen similar results in 0.5% oxygen conditions with MCT4 upregulation and MCT1 downregulation in A549 and HT1080 cells [Wergin M, Kennedy K, Dedeugd C, Dewhirst MW. Duke University Medical Center, NC, USA. Unpublished data]. In sections of some human tumors, an inverse spatial distribution of MCT1 and MCT4 was found when compared to the distribution of hypoxia marker, EF5: MCT4 showing a positive correlation to EF5 staining and MCT1 showing a negative correlation [Wergin M et al. Unpublished data]. To support the concept of an inverse spatial relationship between MCT1/aerobic tissue and MCT4/hypoxic tissue, non-small-cell lung cancer biopsies showed that MCT1 did not colocalize with EF5, a hypoxia marker drug [68]. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819205/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:20 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 20, 2015 10:17 PM Danielus wrote:

I just realized that for high effectivness of 3BP in most cases, we need to use a glyco inhibitor that doesnt require MCT1 as well, such as 2DG.

The reason why is nicelly explained below, and that is hypoxia:

Monocarboxylate transporter subtypes may be specifically expressed among tumor cell types, with MCT1 being more abundant in cells with the potential for lactate oxidation while MCT4 is restricted to the more glycolytic cells. SiHa cells, which were found to be able to take in lactate, express abundant MCT1 and little MCT4, while the reverse was found for the more glycolytic cell line WiDr [68]. Hypoxia, specifically HIF-1α, will upregulate MCT4 mRNA and protein expression while having no effect on MCT1 expression [128]. Our laboratory has seen similar results in 0.5% oxygen conditions with MCT4 upregulation and MCT1 downregulation in A549 and HT1080 cells [Wergin M, Kennedy K, Dedeugd C, Dewhirst MW. Duke University Medical Center, NC, USA. Unpublished data]. In sections of some human tumors, an inverse spatial distribution of MCT1 and MCT4 was found when compared to the distribution of hypoxia marker, EF5: MCT4 showing a positive correlation to EF5 staining and MCT1 showing a negative correlation [Wergin M et al. Unpublished data]. To support the concept of an inverse spatial relationship between MCT1/aerobic tissue and MCT4/hypoxic tissue, non-small-cell lung cancer biopsies showed that MCT1 did not colocalize with EF5, a hypoxia marker drug [68]. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819205/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819205/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819205/
Say what? My chemistry was dismal at school and even worse now. So what would you recommend, Daniel?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Freyr on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:23 PM
Quote | ReplyDanielus, do you have scientific background? You have a lot of knowledge in the field of cancer biology.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 20, 2015 10:23 PM Freyr wrote:

Danielus, do you have scientific background? You have a lot of knowledge in the field of cancer biology.
Thanks Freyr. You too. Like you (I think), I have a PhD in physics. Athough I enjoyed my PhD a lot, the motivation for research in this fied goes so much beyond that ... I think you understand the feeling very well.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:39 PM
Quote | ReplyMoonlitnight, I think we need to take care of some cells that may not be sensitive to 3BP. If the tumor is visibe on PET and not sensitive to 3BP that it will be to 2DG. 2DG is an easy one because is water soluble. It can be taken even orally, but IV as well.

Cinics in Germany are using that in IVs. It can be ordered from China, from the same suppiers seling 3BP and it should not be very expensive. About 150$/50g. For reference, doses used in cinical trials are 30mg/kg/day; 45mg/kg/day and 60mg/kg/day given dayle during two weeks (14 days) followed by one week (7days) off to allow recovery from induction of glucopenia. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a535349.pdf

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Jul 20, 2015 06:44 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 20, 2015 10:39 PM Danielus wrote:

Moonlitnight, I think we need to take care of some cells that may not be sensitive to 3BP. If the tumor is visibe on PET and not sensitive to 3BP that it will be to 2DG. 2DG is an easy one because is water soluble. It can be taken even orally, but IV as well.

Cinics in Germany are using that in IVs. It can be ordered from China, from the same suppiers seling 3BP and it should not be very expensive. About 150$/50g. For reference, doses used in cinical trials are 30mg/kg/day; 45mg/kg/day and 60mg/kg/day given dayle during two weeks (14 days) followed by one week (7days) off to allow recovery from induction of glucopenia. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a535349.pdf "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a535349.pdf " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a535349.pdf

Excellent. Thank you Daniel. I emailed you as well.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 20, 2015 07:06 PM
Quote | ReplyThis might be somewhat along the same lines of the current discussion. The below article found that triple combination of 3-BP, citrate and sodium fluoride (as in toothpaste?) had a powerful effect against glioma. Each of the elements in the combo reduced glycolysis at different points in the pathway.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/235928492\_3-Bromopyr

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 20, 2015 08:18 PM
Quote | ReplyI have also been considering the implications of a low lactate level for cancer patients.

Would not low lactate levels imply a low extratumoral acid environment? And isn't one of the conditions that favors 3-BP entry into cancer cells is an acidic extratumoral environment?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:52 PM
Quote | ReplyThe Cubans have been using a vaccine t cure or prevent lung cancer. Costs a dollar there. Google it on Fox news. The doc there cecked out the lit on it and said it is coming here in 6 mo for trials.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Tue Jul 21, 2015 02:14 PM
Quote | ReplyDo we know why Rosenberg no longer practices 3 BP?Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Tue Jul 21, 2015 08:46 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 21, 2015 6:14 PM sumeetnag wrote:

Do we know why Rosenberg no longer practices 3 BP?The last thing I heard was that he (apparently) thought it was "dangerous." This may have been based on a case reported somewhere in this thread where someone with a specific cancer had a severe reaction. I am sure jcancom will have the details.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Fri Jul 24, 2015 03:11 PM
Quote | ReplyHello everyone!

First time poster and the biggest question on 3bp ends up being availability? I've found it locally and hit the wall of the suppliers not selling to the general public. All I'm looking for is 1g and yet, it seems impossible. Anyone have any suggestions?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 26, 2015 01:01 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 24, 2015 7:11 PM HeathersHope wrote:

Hello everyone!

First time poster and the biggest question on 3bp ends up being availability? I've found it locally and hit the wall of the suppliers not selling to the general public. All I'm looking for is 1g and yet, it seems impossible. Anyone have any suggestions?
Hello Heathershope,

Welcome! Whereabouts do you live? Buying 1 gram would be challenging for sure.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Petronella on Sun Jul 26, 2015 04:12 AM
Quote | ReplyWhat is 3bp and how is it taken?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun Jul 26, 2015 04:30 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 26, 2015 5:01 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 24, 2015 7:11 PM HeathersHope wrote:

Hello everyone!

First time poster and the biggest question on 3bp ends up being availability? I've found it locally and hit the wall of the suppliers not selling to the general public. All I'm looking for is 1g and yet, it seems impossible. Anyone have any suggestions?
Hello Heathershope,

Welcome! Whereabouts do you live? Buying 1 gram would be challenging for sure.
Why do you need 1g only?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun Jul 26, 2015 04:37 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 26, 2015 8:12 AM Petronella wrote:

What is 3bp and how is it taken?
A chemical with high potential in eradicating tumors visible on PET scan. If taken correctly, it will not affect normal cells. It can be taken IV, via TACE, intratumoral injection, orally, nebulized, appied topically, enema.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Petronella on Sun Jul 26, 2015 05:00 AM
Quote | ReplyI live in South Africa. Could one buy 3bp at a Pharmecy?  Or at a healthshop
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun Jul 26, 2015 05:05 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 26, 2015 9:00 AM Petronella wrote:

I live in South Africa. Could one buy 3bp at a Pharmecy?  Or at a healthshop
You need to buy from a chemichal supplier (wester or chinesse). Or go to one of the clinics who is offering this treatment in Europe or US.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Petronella on Sun Jul 26, 2015 06:00 AM
Quote | ReplyThank you for info.  Will search internet.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun Jul 26, 2015 06:05 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 26, 2015 10:00 AM Petronella wrote:

Thank you for info.  Will search internet.
Welcome. If you want to serach on 3BP, you better start with a serach on this forum :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 08:29 PM
Quote | ReplyMoonlit, has treatment been going okay so far? Is he handling it well, feeling any better, etc?Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 26, 2015 08:32 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 27, 2015 12:29 AM Meech90 wrote:

Moonlit, has treatment been going okay so far? Is he handling it well, feeling any better, etc?Handling it well. Not doing better yet, Meech.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 08:45 PM
Quote | ReplyGood to hear that he's taking it well. Hopefully he can see some results in time. All the best.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Jul 26, 2015 08:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 27, 2015 12:45 AM Meech90 wrote:

Good to hear that he's taking it well. Hopefully he can see some results in time. All the best.Thank you. Yes, we are praying hard.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Tue Jul 28, 2015 03:44 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 27, 2015 12:56 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 27, 2015 12:45 AM Meech90 wrote:

Good to hear that he's taking it well. Hopefully he can see some results in time. All the best.Thank you. Yes, we are praying hard.
Thinking only good thoughts for you and your husband--wishing you the best...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by HeathersHope on Wed Jul 29, 2015 01:06 AM
Quote | ReplyHi everyone, ty for the replies. For it's usage, 1g it's actually more than enough. That's simply the smallest I've seen it advertised on some local chemical companies websites. Unfortunately, they do not sell to the general public. I think if I asked to buy a bottle of water I'd get flat out refused. So I figured I'd ask on here as this is a great thread and has so much information.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 01:26 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 5:06 AM HeathersHope wrote:

Hi everyone, ty for the replies. For it's usage, 1g it's actually more than enough. That's simply the smallest I've seen it advertised on some local chemical companies websites. Unfortunately, they do not sell to the general public. I think if I asked to buy a bottle of water I'd get flat out refused. So I figured I'd ask on here as this is a great thread and has so much information.
AFAIK you'd have to get a doctor to order it for you or someone working at a university. Maybe you can get a naturopathic doctor to order it for you?Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:12 PM
Quote | ReplyWelcome new poster!

The expert opinion on the thread is to stay with American or European chemical houses for IV grade 3-BP. So, for example, Sigma. However, it has become increasingly difficult for those on the thread to successfully place an order through these companies. A corporate or university address is typically required for these orders to be accepted.

Orders through China have greatly relaxed restrictions. However, the thread generally does not feel such sources should be used for IV dosing.

Perhaps buying the highest available grade Chinese product combined with a chemical analysis by an American chemical lab would be a workaround. (Any comments from the thread on this suggestion?) Chinese internet suppliers are currently offering 3-BP with a claimed purity of at least 99% which they call pharmaceutical intermediate grade. This product might then be sent for analysis. If the route of synthesis were known, perhaps further purifications steps could be performed.

A few non-scientist members of the thread have arranged for IV 3-BP treatment. There is a general feeling emerging that using the dosing suggested in the patent of 1 mg/kg to 2 mg/kg IV 3-BP using a correct formulation is safe. Posters have typically been surprised at how non-dramatic and apparently non-toxic such treatment with 3-BP can be.

The main concern now with 3-BP treatment is effectiveness. A few thread members are reporting non-response. This is discouraging.

We really need to find a predictor of response. Such a predictor would likely not be overly difficult for the thread to discover if we worked together to find it. A great place to start would be testing tumors for MCT-1.( MCT-1 is the entry point for 3-BP into cancer cells).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=MCT-1+3-Bromopyruvate

The biology of 3-BP treatment response appears very simple. It is difficult to believe that once 3-BP entered a cancer cell that the cancer cell could withstand its anti-cancer effects. The problem appears to be that 3-BP simply is blocked entry by some tumors.

A genetic study noted on OMIM found that MCT-1 variants were the major determinant of 3-BP effectiveness.

"In a genomewide haploid genetics screen to identify resistance mechanisms to 3-bromopyruvate(3-BrPA), a cancer drug candidate that inhibits glycolysis,Birsoy et al. (2013)identified the SLC16A1 gene product, MCT1, as the main determinant of 3-BrPA sensitivity. MCT1 is necessary and sufficient for 3-BrPA uptake by cancer cells. Breast cancer cell lines with high amounts of MCT1 protein were sensitive to 3-BrPA, whereas those with low or no MCT1 concentration were resistant to even high concentrations of 3-BrPA. SLC16A1 mRNA levels were most elevated in glycolytic cancer cells. Forced MCT1 expression in 3-BrPA-resistant cancer cells sensitized tumor xenografts to 3-BrPA treatment in vivo."

http://omim.org/entry/600682?search=3-Bromopyruvate&high

Finding predictors of response for 3-BP would greatly increase patient interest in trying 3-BP. Some terminal patients have had curative responses with 3-BP, others have not. Knowing which category a patient was in before treatment would be tremendously valuable (possibly life-saving) information.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by sumeetnag on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:20 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 7:12 PM Jcancom wrote:

Welcome new poster!

The expert opinion on the thread is to stay with American or European chemical houses for IV grade 3-BP. So, for example, Sigma. However, it has become increasingly difficult for those on the thread to successfully place an order through these companies. A corporate or university address is typically required for these orders to be accepted.

Orders through China have greatly relaxed restrictions. However, the thread generally does not feel such sources should be used for IV dosing.

Perhaps buying the highest available grade Chinese product combined with a chemical analysis by an American chemical lab would be a workaround. (Any comments from the thread on this suggestion?) Chinese internet suppliers are currently offering 3-BP with a claimed purity of at least 99% which they call pharmaceutical intermediate grade. This product might then be sent for analysis. If the route of synthesis were known, perhaps further purifications steps could be performed.

A few non-scientist members of the thread have arranged for IV 3-BP treatment. There is a general feeling emerging that using the dosing suggested in the patent of 1 mg/kg to 2 mg/kg IV 3-BP using a correct formulation is safe. Posters have typically been surprised at how non-dramatic and apparently non-toxic such treatment with 3-BP can be.

The main concern now with 3-BP treatment is effectiveness. A few thread members are reporting non-response. This is discouraging.

We really need to find a predictor of response. Such a predictor would likely not be overly difficult for the thread to discover if we worked together to find it. A great place to start would be testing tumors for MCT-1.( MCT-1 is the entry point for 3-BP into cancer cells).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=MCT-1+3-Bromopyruvate

The biology of 3-BP treatment response appears very simple. It is difficult to believe that once 3-BP entered a cancer cell that the cancer cell could withstand its anti-cancer effects. The problem appears to be that 3-BP simply is blocked entry by some tumors.

A genetic study noted on OMIM found that MCT-1 variants were the major determinant of 3-BP effectiveness.

"In a genomewide haploid genetics screen to identify resistance mechanisms to 3-bromopyruvate(3-BrPA), a cancer drug candidate that inhibits glycolysis,Birsoy et al. (2013)identified the SLC16A1 gene product, MCT1, as the main determinant of 3-BrPA sensitivity. MCT1 is necessary and sufficient for 3-BrPA uptake by cancer cells. Breast cancer cell lines with high amounts of MCT1 protein were sensitive to 3-BrPA, whereas those with low or no MCT1 concentration were resistant to even high concentrations of 3-BrPA. SLC16A1 mRNA levels were most elevated in glycolytic cancer cells. Forced MCT1 expression in 3-BrPA-resistant cancer cells sensitized tumor xenografts to 3-BrPA treatment in vivo."

http://omim.org/entry/600682?search=3-Bromopyruvate&highligh  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://omim.org/entry/600682?search=3-Bromopyruvate&high

Finding predictors of response for 3-BP would greatly increase patient interest in trying 3-BP. Some terminal patients have had curative responses with 3-BP, others have not. Knowing which category a patient was in before treatment would be tremendously valuable (possibly life-saving) information.
Hi Jcancom,

We are in the same boat. We have heard 3 BP is ineffective when administered on its own. This is a fact now.

We need synergists with 3 bp. Some used paracetamol, some used glucose saline, some used 2 DG.

The supply of 3 BP remains a challenge. However, even if we get commercial grade from sigma. How to stabilise it? Sodium bicarbonate and ph level is the only solution or there is any other mechanism?

Regards,

Sumeet
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:31 PM
Quote | ReplyAgree! MCT1 is the key. And first requirement for 3BP is to be visible on PET, than seccond is MCT1. Your quote says something important "Forced MCT1 expression in 3-BrPA-resistant cancer cells sensitized tumor xenografts to 3-BrPA treatment in vivo."

So the questions is: If there is no MCT1 expression how to activate that in cancer cells? Potential answers: Butyrate, Exercise, Ketosis, and a few others. But the most important is lactic acid. So increased glycolisis will lead to activation of MCT1 .... but I think (and now I understand it) Oxygen is the key! Why? Because, MCT1 will activate once the cancer cells can start to use lactic acid as a source of energy in mitochondria. But respiration is not possible withouth oxygen. So this is why Oxygen is KEYYYY for activation of MCT1 in cancer cells! Now I am very enthusiastic about this idea :)

Hmmmmm ..... Oxygen continuous treatment is required with 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 7:31 PM Danielus wrote:

Agree! MCT1 is the key. And first requirement for 3BP is to be visible on PET, than seccond is MCT1. Your quote says something important "Forced MCT1 expression in 3-BrPA-resistant cancer cells sensitized tumor xenografts to 3-BrPA treatment in vivo."

So the questions is: If there is no MCT1 expression how to activate that in cancer cells? Potential answers: Butyrate, Exercise, Ketosis, and a few others. But the most important is lactic acid. So increased glycolisis will lead to activation of MCT1 .... but I think (and now I understand it) Oxygen is the key! Why? Because, MCT1 will activate once the cancer cells can start to use lactic acid as a source of energy in mitochondria. But respiration is not possible withouth oxygen. So this is why Oxygen is KEYYYY for activation of MCT1 in cancer cells! Now I am very enthusiastic about this idea :)

Hmmmmm ..... Oxygen continuous treatment is required with 3BP.
Do you mean via an O2 concentrator? Assuming the person can't walk more than 20 feet...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:50 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 7:31 PM Danielus wrote:

Agree! MCT1 is the key. And first requirement for 3BP is to be visible on PET, than seccond is MCT1. Your quote says something important "Forced MCT1 expression in 3-BrPA-resistant cancer cells sensitized tumor xenografts to 3-BrPA treatment in vivo."

So the questions is: If there is no MCT1 expression how to activate that in cancer cells? Potential answers: Butyrate, Exercise, Ketosis, and a few others. But the most important is lactic acid. So increased glycolisis will lead to activation of MCT1 .... but I think (and now I understand it) Oxygen is the key! Why? Because, MCT1 will activate once the cancer cells can start to use lactic acid as a source of energy in mitochondria. But respiration is not possible withouth oxygen. So this is why Oxygen is KEYYYY for activation of MCT1 in cancer cells! Now I am very enthusiastic about this idea :)

Hmmmmm ..... Oxygen continuous treatment is required with 3BP.
Seem to recall that Dayspring Clinic offers EWOT (Exercise With Oxygen Treatment) in their program.--great idea.

Problem is, as another poster just said--if one cannot walk easily, then would an oxygen concentrator be sufficient?  And when to use this with 3-BP--regular daily basis, prior or after 3-BP i.v., etc.?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:55 PM
Quote | ReplySomething else that occurred to me to force MCT1 expression would be some sort of drug or nanomachine that could actually make the protein in the cell. I wonder if such a drug could be developed.

This might be a way for a pharmaceutical company to justify investing in 3-BP research. By doing so, the 3-BP itself would not be the money maker: the money maker would be whatever could allow the 3-BP into the cell: the MCT-1 making drug.

MCT-1 is just the doorway 3-BP uses to enter the cell. Cancer cells that find a way to shut down the MCT-1 doors become resistant to 3-BP. If entry of 3-BP could be assured with an MCT-1 drug, then cancer cells might no longer have any pathway left to resist 3-BP treatment.

There do not appear many paths of resistant to 3-BP, though there was also mention of CD147 glysylation in relation to the MCT-1 pathway.

"Our results confirm the role of MCTs, especially MCT-1, in 3BP uptake and the importance of cluster of differentiation (CD) 147 glycosylation in this process. We find that the affinity for 3BP transport is higher when the extracellular milieu is acidic."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25641640
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 03:57 PM
Quote | ReplyOxygen as much as possible whenever possible im anyway is possible :) Before, during and after 3BP :)

Yes, Dayspring /Andrew were doing that and I appreciate their knowledge. Andre is also doing that via ozone, magesium, etc.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 04:03 PM
Quote | ReplyJcancom, the nanomachine is Oxygen! :D
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 29, 2015 04:13 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 7:57 PM Danielus wrote:

Oxygen as much as possible whenever possible im anyway is possible :) Before, during and after 3BP :)

Yes, Dayspring /Andrew were doing that and I appreciate their knowledge. Andre is also doing that via ozone, magesium, etc.
Here is something I found on the internet last night.  Do not know if this was ever mentioned on the thread before--although I certainly do not understand it all..think it may be of help to us here.

Please google this:  US 2013/0177630 A1

This is a patent application by an M.D. entitled:  "Anti-cancer Composition and Method Utilizing 3-BP and Liposomal Reduced Glutathione".

Apparently the liposomal glutathione may help to get the 3-BP into the cells--and also to ameliorate any side effects, enhance cancer-killing capacity, and enhance the detoxification of the body of dea cancer cell debris.

Eight pages long--my mind was spinning--page 7 mostly talks about the 3-BP.  Other pages more about reduced liposomal glutathione, etc.

Would appreciate someone with a better understanding/knowledge perusing this--may be of help?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 29, 2015 04:53 PM
Quote | ReplyAn update from the gofundme patient is reporting that this patient is giving up on 3-BP treatment. This update mentions that oral 3-BP was used resulting in a 6% reduction in tumor markers.

Why would oral 3-BP be used? Would not IV 3-BP also be possibly even more helpful?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 05:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 8:13 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 7:57 PM Danielus wrote:

Oxygen as much as possible whenever possible im anyway is possible :) Before, during and after 3BP :)

Yes, Dayspring /Andrew were doing that and I appreciate their knowledge. Andre is also doing that via ozone, magesium, etc.
Here is something I found on the internet last night.  Do not know if this was ever mentioned on the thread before--although I certainly do not understand it all..think it may be of help to us here.

Please google this:  US 2013/0177630 A1

This is a patent application by an M.D. entitled:  "Anti-cancer Composition and Method Utilizing 3-BP and Liposomal Reduced Glutathione".

Apparently the liposomal glutathione may help to get the 3-BP into the cells--and also to ameliorate any side effects, enhance cancer-killing capacity, and enhance the detoxification of the body of dea cancer cell debris.

Eight pages long--my mind was spinning--page 7 mostly talks about the 3-BP.  Other pages more about reduced liposomal glutathione, etc.

Would appreciate someone with a better understanding/knowledge perusing this--may be of help?
I did check this patent and discussed with the author who is a great and helpful person. I have some of his products at home just in case TLS may occur. Otherwise I would not use as it will cancel 3BP effect.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 05:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 8:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

An update from the gofundme patient is reporting that this patient is giving up on 3-BP treatment. This update mentions that oral 3-BP was used resulting in a 6% reduction in tumor markers.

Why would oral 3-BP be used? Would not IV 3-BP also be possibly even more helpful?
Probably IV was expensive?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:01 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 9:40 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 8:13 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 7:57 PM Danielus wrote:

Oxygen as much as possible whenever possible im anyway is possible :) Before, during and after 3BP :)

Yes, Dayspring /Andrew were doing that and I appreciate their knowledge. Andre is also doing that via ozone, magesium, etc.
Here is something I found on the internet last night.  Do not know if this was ever mentioned on the thread before--although I certainly do not understand it all..think it may be of help to us here.

Please google this:  US 2013/0177630 A1

This is a patent application by an M.D. entitled:  "Anti-cancer Composition and Method Utilizing 3-BP and Liposomal Reduced Glutathione".

Apparently the liposomal glutathione may help to get the 3-BP into the cells--and also to ameliorate any side effects, enhance cancer-killing capacity, and enhance the detoxification of the body of dea cancer cell debris.

Eight pages long--my mind was spinning--page 7 mostly talks about the 3-BP.  Other pages more about reduced liposomal glutathione, etc.

Would appreciate someone with a better understanding/knowledge perusing this--may be of help?
I did check this patent and discussed with the author who is a great and helpful person. I have some of his products at home just in case TLS may occur. Otherwise I would not use as it will cancel 3BP effect.
Thanks for your comment--good to know to use only if TLS occurs (probably liposomal glutathione?).  Appreciate your input!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:03 PM
Quote | ReplyWell damn; I'm starting to get less and less excited about this treatment.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterDanielus

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:03 PM Meech90 wrote:

Well damn; I'm starting to get less and less excited about this treatment.Me, more and more excited. :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:13 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:03 PM Meech90 wrote:

Well damn; I'm starting to get less and less excited about this treatment.Don't get discouraged.  Every case is different.

I checked the gofundme site where  it states that the patient is now discontinuing the 3-BP treatment.  Very complicated case. Bile duct stents, hospitalization, transfusions, infections, bile duct and ureter blockages.

Apparently difficulty in 3-BP administration--oral used and not tolerated well.  Some shrinkage--6%--but do not know how long the patient was actually treated since treatment interrupted because of hospitalizations, etc.

My heart goes out to this patient.

Meech90, don't give up--so much more to learn about 3-BP and there are those who have responded very, very well.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:14 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:10 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:03 PM Meech90 wrote:

Well damn; I'm starting to get less and less excited about this treatment.Me, more and more excited. :)
Haha well help me get excited here! The GoFundMe patient stopping after ineffectiveness (albeit orally) is pretty bad news in my mind.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:17 PM
Quote | ReplyIt's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:17 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
Is this the case with your husband? Does he have a PET positive cancer?Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:19 PM
Quote | ReplyI have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:22 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
I would if I could but I can't...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:29 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:33 PM
Quote | ReplyHow many IVs have benn performed so far? Were markers going up just following the 3BP administration?  if yes than TLS can also happen. A peek in markers is likely TLS. Effective treatments have been stopped in hospitals due to fast growth of marker beeing missleading. I woyld make sure it is understood well what is behind.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed Jul 29, 2015 06:34 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:17 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
How many IVs have benn performed so far? Were markers going up just following the 3BP administration?  if yes than TLS can also happen. A peek in markers is likely TLS. Effective treatments have been stopped in hospitals due to fast growth of marker beeing missleading. I woyld make sure it is understood well what is behind.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 07:06 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:34 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:17 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
How many IVs have benn performed so far? Were markers going up just following the 3BP administration?  if yes than TLS can also happen. A peek in markers is likely TLS. Effective treatments have been stopped in hospitals due to fast growth of marker beeing missleading. I woyld make sure it is understood well what is behind.
Hi D,

Sorry, I am feeling a little despondent and likely shouldn't have posted that. The naturopath looked at the results and said "this is definitely cancer spread and not anything to do with lysis as ALL his cancer markers are up: PSA, ALP, LD" blah blah and was adamant about it. Here are the numbers:

July 6, LDH 1411 Started IV 3BPs July 14.

July 10, LDH 4175 (artesunate also being used at this time and stopped to see if it was causing lysis. Naturopath insisted he has never seen a rise due to artesunate and has been using it for 10 years)

July 13, LDH 3999

July 16, LDH 1529

July 22, LDH 1506

July 27, LDH 2369

Yes, all the markers have been on a steady rise well before 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Wed Jul 29, 2015 07:34 PM
Quote | ReplyI do not understand why a PET scan would be worthwhile.

Spending $4000 to tell you that you are in the 95% of patients who also have a positive scan? The other 5% who are negative have slowly growing or non-growing cancers. Why would a PET scan make any sense?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 07:59 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:43 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:46 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.To add to this, I believe GSH is a factor in chemo resistance in tumors. As such, tumors with a high GSH content may be resistant to primary treatment with 3BP alone and depletion of GSH can theoretically sensitize the cells to 3BP.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterMoonlitnight

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:47 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.Hi Meech, thank you. He is taking 1500 mg of paracetamol (acetaminophen) daily... and has been since we started the 3BP.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:05 AM
Quote | ReplyThe melanoma patient took the maximum recommended dose of paracetamol of 3 grams per day. You would really want to be careful to make sure the dose was correct as paracetamol can be a dangerous drug. Going to the maximum dosing to attempt to enhance 3-BP's effectiveness seems quite reasonable. Probably best to cycle it as has been suggested before on this thread.

"On October 5, 2012, the patient started treatment with paracetamol, a safe GSH depletor[27]–[32], in the form of oral, 500-mg tablets taken twice every 8 h for 3 consecutive days."

As can be seen in Figure 3, 8 increasing doses of single treatment IV 3-BP decreased LDH from a maximum of 4500 to about 2100 over a 3 week treatment interval. However, adding the paracetamol appears to have massively intensified the effectiveness of IV 3-BP.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 05:38 AM
Quote | ReplyWhat does TLS mean?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Jul 30, 2015 08:00 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 29, 2015 11:06 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:34 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:17 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
How many IVs have benn performed so far? Were markers going up just following the 3BP administration?  if yes than TLS can also happen. A peek in markers is likely TLS. Effective treatments have been stopped in hospitals due to fast growth of marker beeing missleading. I woyld make sure it is understood well what is behind.
Hi D,

Sorry, I am feeling a little despondent and likely shouldn't have posted that. The naturopath looked at the results and said "this is definitely cancer spread and not anything to do with lysis as ALL his cancer markers are up: PSA, ALP, LD" blah blah and was adamant about it. Here are the numbers:

July 6, LDH 1411 Started IV 3BPs July 14.

July 10, LDH 4175 (artesunate also being used at this time and stopped to see if it was causing lysis. Naturopath insisted he has never seen a rise due to artesunate and has been using it for 10 years)

July 13, LDH 3999

July 16, LDH 1529

July 22, LDH 1506

July 27, LDH 2369

Yes, all the markers have been on a steady rise well before 3BP.
Dear Moonlitnight,

Thank you for the overview. I can not explain such large variations in LDH during a few days (both up and down) without the existence of TLS. As a result of that you shoudl also see a big variation in liver functions (which I think you see) and kidney.  Wether the TLS takes place due to 3BP or is triggered by other medication or is spontaneous I dont know.

Next question is how the 3BP and other IVs fit in this time frame? i.e. could you please indicate the dates of 3BP IV and the dates of Artesunat IV and any other IVs or important changes in medication and/or supplements (started or stopped)?

Also, what was the level of K and Ca and the PSA connected with the above dates and LDH values (if available)?

Sorry for so many questions but it helps to try and clarify what is happening.

Or you prefer to discuss thsi offline?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 08:07 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 9:38 AM mar60 wrote:

What does TLS mean?
Tumor Lysis Syndrome.Quote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 08:23 AM
Quote | ReplyTumor Lysis Syndrome occurs when a cancer drug is so overwhelmingly effective that a medical emergency results from the consequences of so much cancer cell destruction.

TLS indicates that a cancer drug is massively powerful.

3-BP is one of the few cancer drugs which has documented evidence for TLS responses in solid tumors.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 08:34 AM
Quote | ReplySo often the reportedly negative news about 3-BP seems to me to be not that entirely negative.

For example, yesterday the gofundme patient using 3-BP reported stopping treatment because of perceived lack of effectiveness. There were few details on the site about the treatment received etc. , though it was mentioned that markers improved by 6% with 3-BP treatment.

It is not clear whether this is a real treatment response or just statistical noise, though if it were a real effect then stopping treatment seems puzzling. If any positive effect can be obtained with 3-BP, then it would seem well worthwhile to stay with the treatment and try different approaches (for example, adding paracetamol).

This is especially true when considering the patient only received 3-BP for about 2 weeks. The website also mentions oral dosing. Oral dosing would likely not be as effective as IV dosing. Was IV dosing not used? This patient report raises several questions for me and it does not seem as negative as it might at first appear.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:50 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 12:00 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:06 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:34 PM Danielus wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:17 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

It's hard to stay enthusiastic when it doesn't appear to be doing anything and all the cancer markers are flying up.
How many IVs have benn performed so far? Were markers going up just following the 3BP administration?  if yes than TLS can also happen. A peek in markers is likely TLS. Effective treatments have been stopped in hospitals due to fast growth of marker beeing missleading. I woyld make sure it is understood well what is behind.
Hi D,

Sorry, I am feeling a little despondent and likely shouldn't have posted that. The naturopath looked at the results and said "this is definitely cancer spread and not anything to do with lysis as ALL his cancer markers are up: PSA, ALP, LD" blah blah and was adamant about it. Here are the numbers:

July 6, LDH 1411 Started IV 3BPs July 14.

July 10, LDH 4175 (artesunate also being used at this time and stopped to see if it was causing lysis. Naturopath insisted he has never seen a rise due to artesunate and has been using it for 10 years)

July 13, LDH 3999

July 16, LDH 1529

July 22, LDH 1506

July 27, LDH 2369

Yes, all the markers have been on a steady rise well before 3BP.
Dear Moonlitnight,

Thank you for the overview. I can not explain such large variations in LDH during a few days (both up and down) without the existence of TLS. As a result of that you shoudl also see a big variation in liver functions (which I think you see) and kidney.  Wether the TLS takes place due to 3BP or is triggered by other medication or is spontaneous I dont know.

Next question is how the 3BP and other IVs fit in this time frame? i.e. could you please indicate the dates of 3BP IV and the dates of Artesunat IV and any other IVs or important changes in medication and/or supplements (started or stopped)?

Also, what was the level of K and Ca and the PSA connected with the above dates and LDH values (if available)?

Sorry for so many questions but it helps to try and clarify what is happening.

Or you prefer to discuss thsi offline?
I will pull all the dates together, D. I have gone over them myself but the bloodwork is never consistent. Sometimes they requisition electrolyte levels and at other times they don't. His calcium remains low and the potassium levels have only been measured in the last blood draw and the are normal while the ALP, ALK, PSA cancer markers are up. So I can't see how this is lysing as wouldn't we see an elevation in the potassium if it were? I think that's how it works.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:42 AM

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On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:03 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

L, we are not using ALA for that reason. There is some very good research using this with cambogia to reduce sugar levels but it is an antioxidant. Your post made me think. Melatonin is also a raiser of glutathione levels and my husband takes 20 mg a day. Recently, we ran out for a few days...it was during this time that my husband's LDH dropped. He is not back on the melatonin. I don't want to grab at straws but I can't help wondering. So today...an extra Tylenol on its own without codeine, no more melatonin and we are getting O2 delivered as the 3BP is being administered.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16816830  http://www.immunehealthscience.com/melatonin.html
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:04 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

L, we are not using ALA for that reason. There is some very good research using this with cambogia to reduce sugar levels but it is an antioxidant. Your post made me think. Melatonin is also a raiser of glutathione levels and my husband takes 20 mg a day. Recently, we ran out for a few days...it was during this time that my husband's LDH dropped. He is not back on the melatonin. I don't want to grab at straws but I can't help wondering. So today...an extra Tylenol on its own without codeine, no more melatonin and we are getting O2 delivered as the 3BP is being administered.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:14 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

3 BP efficacy depends on strong glycolytic tumours like high SUV uptake,expression MCT1 proteins,high Pyruvate and lactate levels.Some  are reporting as non responders to 3 BP.The  possible reasons are low expression of MCT1 as in cancers like colorectal cancers where MCT1 is down regulated hence we may not see good response with 3 BP in colorectal cancers.Such  cancers where there is MCT1 is upregulated like breast,ovariam,prostate,melanoma,NSCLC,leukemia e.t.c.,you would expect good response with 3 BP.The n how to upregulate the expression of MCT1 for better clinical reponse with 3 BP?It could be by:

Fasting,Ketogenic diet,decreased consumption of sugars,Butyrate e.t.c.,

Medications that downregulate MCT 1 expression:Naproxen,ketoprofen,also Silibin(So avoid Milkthistle extract while on 3 BP)

In every cancer unless cancer stem cells are checked growth,recurrence and mets always a possibility.To  check this Salinomycin is a very good addition.Hence  3 BP,salinomycin,measures to upregulate MCT 1 would increase the efficacy of 3BP and with Salinomycin control cancer stem cells to prevent recurrences and mets and MCT1 upregulation as mentioned should cover broad spectrum of malignant tumours.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:18 PM
Quote | ReplyTo increase oxygenation at cellular levels Apple Ceder Vinegar is the best.1 t0 2 Tablespoon ACV in a glass of water starting once a day to three times a day after food should help.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:20 PM
Quote | ReplyIncrease consumtion of medium Chain fatty acids like virgin coconut oil(MCT Gold is good),Ketocana supplement to raise ketone levels and increase expression MCT1.Of  course you need to keep blood sugar low by less consumption of simple sugars,processed food avoiding fructose e.t.c.,
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:21 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 4:14 PM Jagdon wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

3 BP efficacy depends on strong glycolytic tumours like high SUV uptake,expression MCT1 proteins,high Pyruvate and lactate levels.Some "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://levels.Some " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">levels.Some  are reporting as non responders to 3 BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  possible reasons are low expression of MCT1 as in cancers like colorectal cancers where MCT1 is down regulated hence we may not see good response with 3 BP in colorectal cancers.Such "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cancers.Such " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">cancers.Such  cancers where there is MCT1 is upregulated like breast,ovariam,prostate,melanoma,NSCLC,leukemia e.t.c.,you would expect good response with 3 BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">BP.The  n how to upregulate the expression of MCT1 for better clinical reponse with 3 BP?It could be by:

Fasting,Ketogenic diet,decreased consumption of sugars,Butyrate e.t.c.,

Medications that downregulate MCT 1 expression:Naproxen,ketoprofen,also Silibin(So avoid Milkthistle extract while on 3 BP)

In every cancer unless cancer stem cells are checked growth,recurrence and mets always a possibility.To "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://possibility.To " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">possibility.To  check this Salinomycin is a very good addition.Hence "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://addition.Hence " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">addition.Hence  3 BP,salinomycin,measures to upregulate MCT 1 would increase the efficacy of 3BP and with Salinomycin control cancer stem cells to prevent recurrences and mets and MCT1 upregulation as mentioned should cover broad spectrum of malignant tumours.
Thank you so much for posting this additional information!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jagdon on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:24 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 4:20 PM Jagdon wrote:

Increase consumtion of medium Chain fatty acids like virgin coconut oil(MCT Gold is good),Ketocana supplement to raise ketone levels and increase expression MCT1.Of "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://MCT1.Of " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">MCT1.Of  course you need to keep blood sugar low by less consumption of simple sugars,processed food avoiding fructose e.t.c.,
Always include good natural high colony count multi strain probiotics like fermented food,saurkraut(Sp?),kefir,non sweet yoghurt,buttermilk or supplement with good probiotic like Ultimate Flora.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:29 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 4:04 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

L, we are not using ALA for that reason. There is some very good research using this with cambogia to reduce sugar levels but it is an antioxidant. Your post made me think. Melatonin is also a raiser of glutathione levels and my husband takes 20 mg a day. Recently, we ran out for a few days...it was during this time that my husband's LDH dropped. He is not back on the melatonin. I don't want to grab at straws but I can't help wondering. So today...an extra Tylenol on its own without codeine, no more melatonin and we are getting O2 delivered as the 3BP is being administered.
Good "detective" work on your part about the melatonin usage perhaps affecting GSH and LDH levels. Had no idea about that one--and had been encouraged to begin using it as a sleep aid--no way now will that happen!

Glad O2 will now be incorporated into  your husband's treatment, too.  Keep us updated, please!

So much appreciate all of the feedback and sharing of information from posters here--the spirit of caring and cooperative efforts are phenomenal.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:44 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 4:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 4:04 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:42 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 3:43 AM Meech90 wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 11:59 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:29 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 29, 2015 10:19 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have no idea as I don't want to spend the $4,000 to find out.
Perfectly understand about the expense--plus the fact that probably the last thing he needs to do is fast prior to the scan--and then be injected with radioactive glucose, etc.  Very traumatic for his body right now I would think!

So sorry you are going through all of this--but, please, do not give up hope--each day has so many anxieties for all of us and can be so hard to deal with.  I know you to be a very courageous, good-hearted person--and my heart goes out to  you--with hopes that things will improve for your husband.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, A.
Thank you L. I will NOT give up hope. I refuse to. One of the weird things is that his white blood cell count is now "normal" and his swelling went down along with a drop in his albumin (would be the reverse I would think...)
In the case of the melanoma patient treated with 3BP. The anti cancer effect of 3BP alone was non-existent or minimal. The LDH levels remained high, possibly due to a high glutathione (GSH) level in the melanoma tumors. Once combined with the GSH depleter Paracetamol, the anti cancer effect was radically higher and the LDH levels dropped from 4,000+ to just 10. I'm not positive if GSH levels in your husband's case are high or whether glutathione is an active consideration for patients with your husband's subtype but it's something to look into.I was just about ready to incorporate alpha lipoic acid into my program...now have other thoughts about doing that.  ALA good for nervous system--trouble with vagus nerve right now.  And Burt Berkson's use of ALA for cancer/liver is recorded, etc.

It seems, too,  that B1 and ALA are needed when using DCA protocol to help counteract  subsequent neuropathies.   However, ALA may be contraindicated when using 3-BP--since internet research shows that ALA raises glutathione levels.

Meech90's comments indicate that a GSH depleter--i.e., paracetamol--should be used in order for 3-BP to have a better anti-cancer effect.  So does this mean that if one is using a 3-BP protocol that ALA should be avoided during such?

L, we are not using ALA for that reason. There is some very good research using this with cambogia to reduce sugar levels but it is an antioxidant. Your post made me think. Melatonin is also a raiser of glutathione levels and my husband takes 20 mg a day. Recently, we ran out for a few days...it was during this time that my husband's LDH dropped. He is not back on the melatonin. I don't want to grab at straws but I can't help wondering. So today...an extra Tylenol on its own without codeine, no more melatonin and we are getting O2 delivered as the 3BP is being administered.
Good "detective" work on your part about the melatonin usage perhaps affecting GSH and LDH levels. Had no idea about that one--and had been encouraged to begin using it as a sleep aid--no way now will that happen!

Glad O2 will now be incorporated into  your husband's treatment, too.  Keep us updated, please!

So much appreciate all of the feedback and sharing of information from posters here--the spirit of caring and cooperative efforts are phenomenal.
I had posted links to studies about melatonin depleting 02 levels but the system flagged the post so I removed them.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:58 PM
Quote | ReplyI think with 3-BP it would be a very good idea to start treatment with a washout period of a day or for all other supplements. Start off with a simple smallish IV (or oral) dose of 3-BP treatment. By doing a few labs immediately before and after you would probably be able to pick up any response signal no matter how small. If such a signal were found then you would have some confidence that it would be effective. You could then up the dosage and try combinations.

When all these other supplements are in the mix you would have no idea what interactions might take place.

It would be worth it to give 3-BP such a chance.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 01:05 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 4:58 PM Jcancom wrote:

I think with 3-BP it would be a very good idea to start treatment with a washout period of a day or for all other supplements. Start off with a simple smallish IV (or oral) dose of 3-BP treatment. By doing a few labs immediately before and after you would probably be able to pick up any response signal no matter how small. If such a signal were found then you would have some confidence that it would be effective. You could then up the dosage and try combinations.

When all these other supplements are in the mix you would have no idea what interactions might take place.

It would be worth it to give 3-BP such a chance.
Oh my heavens me...I give my husband half a lemon peel every day (limonene) and I see that this too raises levels of glutathione. I will analyze everything, including his Vega protein powder.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 01:12 PM

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On Jul 30, 2015 5:05 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 4:58 PM Jcancom wrote:

I think with 3-BP it would be a very good idea to start treatment with a washout period of a day or for all other supplements. Start off with a simple smallish IV (or oral) dose of 3-BP treatment. By doing a few labs immediately before and after you would probably be able to pick up any response signal no matter how small. If such a signal were found then you would have some confidence that it would be effective. You could then up the dosage and try combinations.

When all these other supplements are in the mix you would have no idea what interactions might take place.

It would be worth it to give 3-BP such a chance.
Oh my heavens me...I give my husband half a lemon peel every day (limonene) and I see that this too raises levels of glutathione. I will analyze everything, including his Vega protein powder.
Oh my heavens, this is probably VERY telling. I just checked whey protein (his main protein source) and it is very rich in glutathione. Just not sure how to feed him now as this is in his shake. It looks like everything I give him is loaded with the stuff or increases it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 01:13 PM
Quote | ReplyI wonder whether it would be advisable to have gluthatione levels measured.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 03:37 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 5:13 PM Jcancom wrote:

I wonder whether it would be advisable to have gluthatione levels measured.
This whole glutathione issue is a tricky one. It is in ptotein foods of course and we want it to be to support all our healthy cells, but I guess some powders are just too rich in it, and this compromises the action of 3BP.  Don had 20 mg of melatonin last night. He won't have any more of that. Also, I will try to find a protein powder less rich in it than whey. He needs his smoothies due to severe cachexia. The lemon peels I have been giving him are also out as limonene also stimulates its release.  Today, he is having his 3BP along with oxygen and an extra acetaminophen/paracetamol. Tomorrow, if he isn't swelling again, we will do the full Monty of 3BP and 2 grams of acetaminophen.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 03:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 7:37 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 5:13 PM Jcancom wrote:

I wonder whether it would be advisable to have gluthatione levels measured.
This whole glutathione issue is a tricky one. It is in ptotein foods of course and we want it to be to support all our healthy cells, but I guess some powders are just too rich in it, and this compromises the action of 3BP.  Don had 20 mg of melatonin last night. He won't have any more of that. Also, I will try to find a protein powder less rich in it than whey. He needs his smoothies due to severe cachexia. The lemon peels I have been giving him are also out as limonene also stimulates its release.  Today, he is having his 3BP along with oxygen and an extra acetaminophen/paracetamol. Tomorrow, if he isn't swelling again, we will do the full Monty of 3BP and 2 grams of acetaminophen.
I see selenium supplements also increase glutathione...and of course, my guys gets these too :(
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:10 PM
Quote | ReplySupplements are just too crazy! You don't want to have all these interactions going on: you would have no idea whether 3-BP is effective or not. It really seems that you need a washout period before 3-BP treatment, measure markers a few times, treat with 3-BP, and then measure markers a more few times. A whole shelf full of supplements would make it impossible to know what was happening.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:14 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 8:10 PM Jcancom wrote:

Supplements are just too crazy! You don't want to have all these interactions going on: you would have no idea whether 3-BP is effective or not. It really seems that you need a washout period before 3-BP treatment, measure markers a few times, treat with 3-BP, and then measure markers a more few times. A whole shelf full of supplements would make it impossible to know what was happening.
I agree. I am checking everything. He has to have a bone builder, and curcumin has so many benefits that I hate to exclude it, but it too increases GSH. I'll likely keep that and examine the rest minutely.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:15 PM
Quote | ReplyStopping all the good suppements is difficullt as well. I would just make sure you do not administrate them before the 3BP administration and two hours after.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:18 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 8:15 PM Danielus wrote:

Stopping all the good suppements is difficullt as well. I would just make sure you do not administrate them before the 3BP administration and two hours after.
I agree D as these are beneficial to the healthy cells. Curcumin and healthy green foods are still on!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 30, 2015 8:18 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 30, 2015 8:15 PM Danielus wrote:

Stopping all the good suppements is difficullt as well. I would just make sure you do not administrate them before the 3BP administration and two hours after.
I agree D as these are beneficial to the healthy cells. Curcumin and healthy green foods are still on!
Vitamin C apparently affects glutathione, too.  But, as you said, many things are also vital for maintenance of healthy cells.  So having a good balance of everything--and not overdoing the glutathione--must be the key.

As well as the timing of when/how to take supplements as Daniel suggested--makes a lot of sense.

Bone broth mixed in with other soups, grains, etc. also can probably assist with nutrition values.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by rliff on Fri Jul 31, 2015 02:03 AM
Quote | ReplyI'm following this thread with great interest.  I have been trying to source 3BP now for a year or so with no success.  Could you let me know where you source it ? I live in the UK
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Fri Jul 31, 2015 06:33 AM
Quote | ReplyRiff,

It's a fascinating thread. I too live in the UK. I don't know of a source here, but personally, I'd want to visit a clinic where it could be properly administered first, before looking at self administration.

None that I know of in the UK, but Danielus can point you in the direction of a Dutch/German clinics that can help you.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Fri Jul 31, 2015 09:18 AM
Quote | Replythis clinic works wot 3Bp ; http://kankerbehandelen.nl/
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jul 31, 2015 09:50 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 1:18 PM mar60 wrote:

this clinic works wot 3Bp ; http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/
Mar, you mentioned several times the clinic and I was wondering if you have any experience with the clinic? Have you had a treatment there?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:34 PM
Quote | ReplyTo All: dont order anything from this suppier anything as it seems to be a scam  https://www.adooq.com
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On jul 31, 2015 1:50 Danielus wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 1:18 PM mar60 wrote:

this clinic works wot 3Bp ; http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kankerbehandelen.nl/
Mar, you mentioned several times the clinic and I was wondering if you have any experience with the clinic? Have you had a treatment there?
I was there to ask for info but i think I did net get enough info  so s i will go back  with the father of Ivar Verhoeven.. the boy who had this treatment a few years ago
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by mar60 on Fri Jul 31, 2015 01:01 PM
Quote | Replyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3Uvo9mnPM
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 31, 2015 01:30 PM
Quote | ReplyCould someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Jul 31, 2015 02:31 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
To my knowledge, such a peak (i.e. fast up, and fast down) can no represent tumor growth. I belive is medication or TLS.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jul 31, 2015 04:52 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jul 31, 2015 04:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 8:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
I am all thumbs today...'scuse typos. The palliative care doctor said that this was "wishful thinking" and "Not to get too carried away." Very rude and disrespectful. The naturopathic oncologist just said they had seen rises like this and it just means "his body is breaking down." No one is positive.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jul 31, 2015 05:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 8:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
I am all thumbs today...'scuse typos. The palliative care doctor said that this was "wishful thinking" and "Not to get too carried away." Very rude and disrespectful. The naturopathic oncologist just said they had seen rises like this and it just means "his body is breaking down." No one is positive.
Of course, no one had ever heard of 3BP either...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Jul 31, 2015 05:13 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 9:00 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
I am all thumbs today...'scuse typos. The palliative care doctor said that this was "wishful thinking" and "Not to get too carried away." Very rude and disrespectful. The naturopathic oncologist just said they had seen rises like this and it just means "his body is breaking down." No one is positive.
Of course, no one had ever heard of 3BP either...
Your tenacity must amaze them--because they would not know what to do anymore.   But you, admirably, are NOT giving up and instead continue to give your all to help your husband.  And you have diligently researched, learned, and applied knowledge gained to help in every way possible.

I just cannot emphasize enough how much I am hoping and wishing for the best of all outcomes--and I am sure that many here on this message board feel the same way.

Take good care, A.--think of you often.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jul 31, 2015 05:25 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 9:13 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 9:00 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
I am all thumbs today...'scuse typos. The palliative care doctor said that this was "wishful thinking" and "Not to get too carried away." Very rude and disrespectful. The naturopathic oncologist just said they had seen rises like this and it just means "his body is breaking down." No one is positive.
Of course, no one had ever heard of 3BP either...
Your tenacity must amaze them--because they would not know what to do anymore.   But you, admirably, are NOT giving up and instead continue to give your all to help your husband.  And you have diligently researched, learned, and applied knowledge gained to help in every way possible.

I just cannot emphasize enough how much I am hoping and wishing for the best of all outcomes--and I am sure that many here on this message board feel the same way.

Take good care, A.--think of you often.
Thank you L. I will email you this w/e.  I asked these docs why, if it was indicative of wild cancer spread, it had dropped way back to 1500 or so before rising somewhat in the following two weeks and all they could say was , "It goes up and down." I told them so does a roller coaster, and everyone gets off safely at the bottom (just to pee them off...)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Jul 31, 2015 05:41 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 9:25 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 9:13 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 9:00 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 8:52 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 5:30 PM Jcancom wrote:

Could someone help out?

How could someone's LDH level go up by double to 4000 in a week? Does this make any biological sense? Would this mean that total tumor volume also doubled in a week?

That does not seem reasonable.

What is a typical rate of increase in LDH levels when terminal patients simply give up and stop treatment?

Might such large moves in either direction in such a short period of time be more likely to indicate treatment success and not failure?
Are you referring to my husband's J? As that is what happened to us. The doctors AND the naturopathic oncologists simply said they had the clinical experience to KNOW without a DOUBT that this was rapid cancer spread, particularly since his other markers (ALP, PSA) were also rising. However, Dr. Snuffy Myers, a very well respewcted and sought after prostate cancer doc, always says that chemo is successful whrn you see a huge rise in PSA - as cancer cells split open and give off their toxic payload. So I prefer to be on the bright side while they are insisting he is very ill and getting worse. He certaily is not looking good.
I am all thumbs today...'scuse typos. The palliative care doctor said that this was "wishful thinking" and "Not to get too carried away." Very rude and disrespectful. The naturopathic oncologist just said they had seen rises like this and it just means "his body is breaking down." No one is positive.
Of course, no one had ever heard of 3BP either...
Your tenacity must amaze them--because they would not know what to do anymore.   But you, admirably, are NOT giving up and instead continue to give your all to help your husband.  And you have diligently researched, learned, and applied knowledge gained to help in every way possible.

I just cannot emphasize enough how much I am hoping and wishing for the best of all outcomes--and I am sure that many here on this message board feel the same way.

Take good care, A.--think of you often.
Thank you L. I will email you this w/e.  I asked these docs why, if it was indicative of wild cancer spread, it had dropped way back to 1500 or so before rising somewhat in the following two weeks and all they could say was , "It goes up and down." I told them so does a roller coaster, and everyone gets off safely at the bottom (just to pee them off...)
Never ceases to amaze me that some doctors feel they can say anything to patients--devoid of kindness and encouragement--in fact, brutal at times!  However, they then cannot tolerate it well when patients respond having different thoughts/ideas--and they then possibly term the patients "non-compliant"!

Today's patients are not as "sheep-like" anymore--they do research and try to become well-versed with whatever health conditions they encounter.  Sometimes doctors appreciate this--other times their egos get them off course. A little humility goes a long way--one cannot learn without being humble and teachable.  Arrogance and ignorance prevent one from expanding knowledge--and having empathy for those who are sick--and those who are their caregivers.

Keep that sense of humor and courageous spirit, A.!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jul 31, 2015 06:14 PM
Quote | ReplyI just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Fri Jul 31, 2015 06:23 PM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:39 AM

Quote | Reply

On Jul 31, 2015 10:23 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
What a wonderful expression about "the moon is the light that destroys it".

There is a beautiful Welsh folk song entitled: "All Through the Night".  A version, sung by Bryn Terfel (Welsh baritone) can be found on YouTube.  Just use google and type in the following:

Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Nights)--Starfall Leyline

The person named Starfall has put a lovely version of this song--accompanied by photos of the earth resting at night (dark)--but there are always heavenly bodies (moon, stars) shining their light  on the earth.

Original words of this song (can be found on Wikipedia) reflected that at night, the stars "smile on its earthly sister".

Later versions have more of words pertaining to a lullaby-but all with the idea of shining light protecting us during the dark of night.

Although off science=based subject we are discussing, thought you would love to hear this beautiful song--always touches my heart.  Maybe because I am part Welsh on my mother's side!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:33 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:39 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:23 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
What a wonderful expression about "the moon is the light that destroys it".

There is a beautiful Welsh folk song entitled: "All Through the Night".  A version, sung by Bryn Terfel (Welsh baritone) can be found on YouTube.  Just use google and type in the following:

Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Nights)--Starfall Leyline

The person named Starfall has put a lovely version of this song--accompanied by photos of the earth resting at night (dark)--but there are always heavenly bodies (moon, stars) shining their light  on the earth.

Original words of this song (can be found on Wikipedia) reflected that at night, the stars "smile on its earthly sister".

Later versions have more of words pertaining to a lullaby-but all with the idea of shining light protecting us during the dark of night.

Although off science=based subject we are discussing, thought you would love to hear this beautiful song--always touches my heart.  Maybe because I am part Welsh on my mother's side!
L. xoxo What can I say. I used to sing this song at school. In the UK many moons ago, all schools had a Christian assembly every morning before lessons and this is one of the many hymns that stuck in my mind. Just beautiful. There is some synchronicity going on here. I used to sing it as a lullaby for my daughter.

Don is very quiet and tired again. He had 2.0ml/kg yesterday - 3 hour drip, oxygen and 2400 paracetamol. Now we have a long weekend so no infusions until Tuesday :( I am loading him up on topical and nebulizer. Not taking the whey protein is going to be a problem for the cachexia. It's all damned if you do and damned if you don't. (Is that a rude word? I hope not! Next week he also has a meeting for a trial on a vaccine. I doubt he will get in as they only want 79 people. Another day messed up... I'd like him to have five full days with the 3BP IV.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:26 PM
Quote | ReplyThe article below of 3-BPs effects in bladder cancer did not report when I searched pubmed for "3-Bromopyruvate", though it did report with 3-BrPa. A few other new 3-BP articles also appeared with this search.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26198749
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:30 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 4:33 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 5:39 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:23 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
What a wonderful expression about "the moon is the light that destroys it".

There is a beautiful Welsh folk song entitled: "All Through the Night".  A version, sung by Bryn Terfel (Welsh baritone) can be found on YouTube.  Just use google and type in the following:

Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Nights)--Starfall Leyline

The person named Starfall has put a lovely version of this song--accompanied by photos of the earth resting at night (dark)--but there are always heavenly bodies (moon, stars) shining their light  on the earth.

Original words of this song (can be found on Wikipedia) reflected that at night, the stars "smile on its earthly sister".

Later versions have more of words pertaining to a lullaby-but all with the idea of shining light protecting us during the dark of night.

Although off science=based subject we are discussing, thought you would love to hear this beautiful song--always touches my heart.  Maybe because I am part Welsh on my mother's side!
L. xoxo What can I say. I used to sing this song at school. In the UK many moons ago, all schools had a Christian assembly every morning before lessons and this is one of the many hymns that stuck in my mind. Just beautiful. There is some synchronicity going on here. I used to sing it as a lullaby for my daughter.

Don is very quiet and tired again. He had 2.0ml/kg yesterday - 3 hour drip, oxygen and 2400 paracetamol. Now we have a long weekend so no infusions until Tuesday :( I am loading him up on topical and nebulizer. Not taking the whey protein is going to be a problem for the cachexia. It's all damned if you do and damned if you don't. (Is that a rude word? I hope not! Next week he also has a meeting for a trial on a vaccine. I doubt he will get in as they only want 79 people. Another day messed up... I'd like him to have five full days with the 3BP IV.
Just amazing--somehow after hearing Jcancon giving his best wishes referring to you as "Moon"--and then your reply--immediately thought of "All Through the Night"!  Thank you for your heartfelt words and background story about knowing this beautiful song. Very touching.

So now you have the weekend to go through--and must wait until Tuesday for another i.v.  No wonder that Don is very quiet/tired--his body is processing everything and working hard to get well. But your using both the topical and the nebulizer will continue to help until the next i.v.

As for the whey protein and your concerns--completely understandable about frustration involved--use it, don't use it...?? Just use your judgement about it--you will know what to do as you observe Don. And D is always willing to help with suggestions, too. Hopefully, too, you can find another protein powder that does not have as much glutathione--or use less of the one you have?  I wonder if ingesting it at least 2 hours after the i.v. would be a good idea.  I thinkg that D had mentioned that supplements could be taken afterwards--waiting that period of time.  Do not know if that would apply to the protein powder, too.

So all of us take each day at a time--enough anxieties in each one to deal with and trying to keep balanced!

Wishing you both the very best.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:36 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:30 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 4:33 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 5:39 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:23 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
What a wonderful expression about "the moon is the light that destroys it".

There is a beautiful Welsh folk song entitled: "All Through the Night".  A version, sung by Bryn Terfel (Welsh baritone) can be found on YouTube.  Just use google and type in the following:

Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Nights)--Starfall Leyline

The person named Starfall has put a lovely version of this song--accompanied by photos of the earth resting at night (dark)--but there are always heavenly bodies (moon, stars) shining their light  on the earth.

Original words of this song (can be found on Wikipedia) reflected that at night, the stars "smile on its earthly sister".

Later versions have more of words pertaining to a lullaby-but all with the idea of shining light protecting us during the dark of night.

Although off science=based subject we are discussing, thought you would love to hear this beautiful song--always touches my heart.  Maybe because I am part Welsh on my mother's side!
L. xoxo What can I say. I used to sing this song at school. In the UK many moons ago, all schools had a Christian assembly every morning before lessons and this is one of the many hymns that stuck in my mind. Just beautiful. There is some synchronicity going on here. I used to sing it as a lullaby for my daughter.

Don is very quiet and tired again. He had 2.0ml/kg yesterday - 3 hour drip, oxygen and 2400 paracetamol. Now we have a long weekend so no infusions until Tuesday :( I am loading him up on topical and nebulizer. Not taking the whey protein is going to be a problem for the cachexia. It's all damned if you do and damned if you don't. (Is that a rude word? I hope not! Next week he also has a meeting for a trial on a vaccine. I doubt he will get in as they only want 79 people. Another day messed up... I'd like him to have five full days with the 3BP IV.
Just amazing--somehow after hearing Jcancon giving his best wishes referring to you as "Moon"--and then your reply--immediately thought of "All Through the Night"!  Thank you for your heartfelt words and background story about knowing this beautiful song. Very touching.

So now you have the weekend to go through--and must wait until Tuesday for another i.v.  No wonder that Don is very quiet/tired--his body is processing everything and working hard to get well. But your using both the topical and the nebulizer will continue to help until the next i.v.

As for the whey protein and your concerns--completely understandable about frustration involved--use it, don't use it...?? Just use your judgement about it--you will know what to do as you observe Don. And D is always willing to help with suggestions, too. Hopefully, too, you can find another protein powder that does not have as much glutathione--or use less of the one you have?  I wonder if ingesting it at least 2 hours after the i.v. would be a good idea.  I thinkg that D had mentioned that supplements could be taken afterwards--waiting that period of time.  Do not know if that would apply to the protein powder, too.

So all of us take each day at a time--enough anxieties in each one to deal with and trying to keep balanced!

Wishing you both the very best.
Thanks L...I thought about giving the whey later but what do I do at the weekend (especially this long weeked) when we are both applying it topically and nebulizing throughout the day? ARRGH! So frustrating. I will buy him one of those hormone-free, free-range Whole Foods roast chickens and force him to eat the whole thing.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:38 PM
Quote | ReplyI have developed an interest lately in the chemical side of 3-BP.

If we knew the precise details of 3-BP's chemical properties we could do our own analysis of the purity of our products.

For example, if we knew the exact theoretical pH that would result with a specific molarity of 3-BP in water, then we could compare this with the pH obtained with our 3-BP. Does anyone know the method used to make such a theoretical calculation? Or perhaps this would be published in research.

We might also be able to perform a chemical reaction and determine the percentage yield. Displacing the bromine in 3-BP would be good place to start, though we would not want bromine gas as a product!

Any comments would be welcome.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:41 PM
Quote | ReplyWould rectally provided nutrition be an option?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:36 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 5:30 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 4:33 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 5:39 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:23 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Jul 31, 2015 10:14 PM Jcancom wrote:

I just did not understand all these fluctuations when it was mentioned on the thread earlier. My conception of these markers was they gave you a good indication of what was happening to tumor volumes / tumor vitality and could be used predictively.

At one point on the thread I even suggested that doctors should be compensated on the basis of moving markers in the right direction. Would that be enough for them to finally give up on chemo? No success = No paycheck! Rewarding failure has not resulted in better results for patients: Rewarding success would. However, given the Nasdaq scale gyrations in marker numbers, I really wonder what it is they are telling us! It was so much simpler when it was LDH down Good! : LDH up BAD! . Surely there must be an answer or substantial research on this question.

Best Wishes, Moon.

I am so glad that you want to fight this one. Cancer is a very dark journey, I hope the thread is shining some light your way.

Aside from 3-BP, I start to run out of ideas. 3-BP really seems like the ace in the hole. The best standby I can think of is nanocells. Nanogram scale doses curing mice. That was pretty much unbelievable. Others have posted that this simply was not possible: it is.
When I chose my name on the cancer forums (HW, ACS, USToo) it was for that reason, JCanCom. The darkness is the cancer and the moon is the light that destroys it.

The LDH is a complete mystery. If it went up to 4150 due to "cancer spread" then why did it drop to 1520? Did some lysing go on? Was it a bad draw causing hemolysis? And why is it rising again when we're on 3BP? The melatonin and selenium and whey protein twice a day may have been upping the glutathione I guess. He is off all three as of today.  I have some 2 DG coming and he is breathing a lot of oxygen. The salinomycin may be next but after I get a PICC inserted.
What a wonderful expression about "the moon is the light that destroys it".

There is a beautiful Welsh folk song entitled: "All Through the Night".  A version, sung by Bryn Terfel (Welsh baritone) can be found on YouTube.  Just use google and type in the following:

Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Nights)--Starfall Leyline

The person named Starfall has put a lovely version of this song--accompanied by photos of the earth resting at night (dark)--but there are always heavenly bodies (moon, stars) shining their light  on the earth.

Original words of this song (can be found on Wikipedia) reflected that at night, the stars "smile on its earthly sister".

Later versions have more of words pertaining to a lullaby-but all with the idea of shining light protecting us during the dark of night.

Although off science=based subject we are discussing, thought you would love to hear this beautiful song--always touches my heart.  Maybe because I am part Welsh on my mother's side!
L. xoxo What can I say. I used to sing this song at school. In the UK many moons ago, all schools had a Christian assembly every morning before lessons and this is one of the many hymns that stuck in my mind. Just beautiful. There is some synchronicity going on here. I used to sing it as a lullaby for my daughter.

Don is very quiet and tired again. He had 2.0ml/kg yesterday - 3 hour drip, oxygen and 2400 paracetamol. Now we have a long weekend so no infusions until Tuesday :( I am loading him up on topical and nebulizer. Not taking the whey protein is going to be a problem for the cachexia. It's all damned if you do and damned if you don't. (Is that a rude word? I hope not! Next week he also has a meeting for a trial on a vaccine. I doubt he will get in as they only want 79 people. Another day messed up... I'd like him to have five full days with the 3BP IV.
Just amazing--somehow after hearing Jcancon giving his best wishes referring to you as "Moon"--and then your reply--immediately thought of "All Through the Night"!  Thank you for your heartfelt words and background story about knowing this beautiful song. Very touching.

So now you have the weekend to go through--and must wait until Tuesday for another i.v.  No wonder that Don is very quiet/tired--his body is processing everything and working hard to get well. But your using both the topical and the nebulizer will continue to help until the next i.v.

As for the whey protein and your concerns--completely understandable about frustration involved--use it, don't use it...?? Just use your judgement about it--you will know what to do as you observe Don. And D is always willing to help with suggestions, too. Hopefully, too, you can find another protein powder that does not have as much glutathione--or use less of the one you have?  I wonder if ingesting it at least 2 hours after the i.v. would be a good idea.  I thinkg that D had mentioned that supplements could be taken afterwards--waiting that period of time.  Do not know if that would apply to the protein powder, too.

So all of us take each day at a time--enough anxieties in each one to deal with and trying to keep balanced!

Wishing you both the very best.
Thanks L...I thought about giving the whey later but what do I do at the weekend (especially this long weeked) when we are both applying it topically and nebulizing throughout the day? ARRGH! So frustrating. I will buy him one of those hormone-free, free-range Whole Foods roast chickens and force him to eat the whole thing.
Forgot about the topical/nebulizer part....!

Please see if you can get some of the bone broth (packed with minerals, vitamins, collagen)--turkey or chicken is a little easier on the stomach--rather than the beef.  If you have some organic chicken broth, can add some of the bone broth to it--puree some organic cooked vegetables--make a soup for Don.  Can even put some of the Whole Foods chicken in it and puree everything together. Or if he can eat it without pureeing, that works too.  But a little easier to digest otherwise.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:42 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:26 PM Jcancom wrote:

The article below of 3-BPs effects in bladder cancer did not report when I searched pubmed for "3-Bromopyruvate", though it did report with 3-BrPa. A few other new 3-BP articles also appeared with this search.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26198749 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26198749 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26198749
Thanks J. I wonder why it didn't come up. I wish we could see the results from all these clinics doing it "under the bed." Are they getting good results? Not so good? How long? Also, I'd love to know the truth why Rosenberg and Williams are no longer doing this (or say they aren't). Maybe they felt their practices might be closed - at least the stateside one in the case of Williams. It is all very strange to me.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:47 PM
Quote | ReplyI have the organic bone broth! I made him some soup and he threw up just looking at it. I will try to get him to sip some broth today.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 01:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:47 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have the organic bone broth! I made him some soup and he threw up just looking at it. I will try to get him to sip some broth today.
How awful..the poor man!   I could not tolerate the bone broth by itself at all.  Too rich/strong.   Had to add about 4 Tbsp. of it to about 2-3 cups of organic chicken broth( can even water that down if too rich). Then added stewed organic vegetables--tomatoes and carrots--added some cooked organic polenta--then pureed everything.  Tastes better than it sounds...and eat it several times a day.  Are we having fun yet???
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:00 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 5:47 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

I have the organic bone broth! I made him some soup and he threw up just looking at it. I will try to get him to sip some broth today.
Also, I just gave him some powdered protein with 250mg acetaminophen. Maybe that will counteract the glutathione-enhancing side of things.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:01 PM
Quote | Reply:)
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:12 PM
Quote | ReplyYeah, you asked me about why the American doctors who returned from Columbia after treating with 3-BP are now calling it dangerous. Obviously they have a large amount of pull in the discussion as they are almost the only ones that have officially treated with. On the surface they should have a lot of credibility.

Though not much of their treatment approach has made much sense. It was noted earlier on this thread that a patient from the Inspire thread was treated in Florida.

Those on the thread who have experience with 3-BP treatment know that it is usually not that dramatic, actually fairly mundane. You're expecting something big and terrible will happen and then... nothing. Often there is no obvious sign that a treatment has occurred ( except perhaps some acid burn or swelling).

The way the Florida doctor treated seemed dangerous, more than the treatment itself. The patient had a line inserted and that same afternoon had a 3-BP treatment with two more to follow on the next two days. That treatment schedule does not seem safe! A week later the patient was released from hospital.

These reports of 3-BP treatment failure do not inspire confidence in the claim that it was the 3-BP that failed.

If the idea is to scuttle 3-BP, then why have they not placed  more emphasis on the limited responses of 3-BP we have seen on the thread? That is more the weak spot. 3-BP probably will only work in some patients. (We need to find a marker that will identify responders before treatment. )

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:15 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:12 PM Jcancom wrote:

Yeah, you asked me about why the American doctors who returned from Columbia after treating with 3-BP are now calling it dangerous. Obviously they have a large amount of pull in the discussion as they are almost the only ones that have officially treated with. On the surface they should have a lot of credibility.

Though not much of their treatment approach has made much sense. It was noted earlier on this thread that a patient from the Inspire thread was treated in Florida.

Those on the thread who have experience with 3-BP treatment know that it is usually not that dramatic, actually fairly mundane. You're expecting something big and terrible will happen and then... nothing. Often there is no obvious sign that a treatment has occurred ( except perhaps some acid burn or swelling).

The way the Florida doctor treated seemed dangerous, more than the treatment itself. The patient had a line inserted and that same afternoon had a 3-BP treatment with two more to follow on the next two days. That treatment schedule does not seem safe! A week later the patient was released from hospital.

These reports of 3-BP treatment failure do not inspire confidence in the claim that it was the 3-BP that failed.

If the idea is to scuttle 3-BP, then why have they not placed  more emphasis on the limited responses of 3-BP we have seen on the thread? That is more the weak spot. 3-BP probably will only work in some patients. (We need to find a marker that will identify responders before treatment. )

"The way the Florida doctor treated seemed dangerous, more than the treatment itself. The patient had a line inserted and that same afternoon had a 3-BP treatment with two more to follow on the next two days. That treatment schedule does not seem safe! A week later the patient was released from hospital. "

The melanoma patient had 6 treatments in 10 days so some must have been on consecutive days...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:22 PM
Quote | ReplyThat is true about the treatment of the melanoma patient. However, they dosed up over the course of about a month.

The doctors cautiously dosed up over a prolonged period of time. They did not start with 3 consecutive days of treatment after a line insertion. The Inspire thread explained that it can take days to recover from the operation for a line.

The one week hospitalization that resulted from this treatment is one of the only reports of severe adverse results from 3-BP aside from TLS respones. With the Florida patient 3-BP treatment did not create a TLS response. So, it is not clear why such a serious negative response would occur.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:38 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:22 PM Jcancom wrote:

That is true about the treatment of the melanoma patient. However, they dosed up over the course of about a month.

The doctors cautiously dosed up over a prolonged period of time. They did not start with 3 consecutive days of treatment after a line insertion. The Inspire thread explained that it can take days to recover from the operation for a line.

The one week hospitalization that resulted from this treatment is one of the only reports of severe adverse results from 3-BP aside from TLS respones. With the Florida patient 3-BP treatment did not create a TLS response. So, it is not clear why such a serious negative response would occur.
Do you mean a PICC. J? I will have to find that thread. Don is supposed to get a PICC but we don't need any more delays.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:47 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 6:22 PM Jcancom wrote:

That is true about the treatment of the melanoma patient. However, they dosed up over the course of about a month.

The doctors cautiously dosed up over a prolonged period of time. They did not start with 3 consecutive days of treatment after a line insertion. The Inspire thread explained that it can take days to recover from the operation for a line.

The one week hospitalization that resulted from this treatment is one of the only reports of severe adverse results from 3-BP aside from TLS respones. With the Florida patient 3-BP treatment did not create a TLS response. So, it is not clear why such a serious negative response would occur.
Do you mean a PICC. J? I will have to find that thread. Don is supposed to get a PICC but we don't need any more delays.
Recall that it was a port--fairly sure of that.  Anesthesia involved--I know--been there, done that.

I was supposed to have chemo the following day after the port surgery.  So very sick from the anesthesia--throat/chest swollen/difficulty breathing.  Osteopath said every bone in my neck was out causing pain, etc.

Expected then to do chemo the very next day feeling like that?  With all of its known aftereffects in this already weakened condition? Ridiculous!  I cancelled and the oncologist went berserk.  So did not go to him anymore.

I had commented on this about Rosenberg's patient back somewhere on this thread--there is more information about what happened, I believe, on a post.  Rosenberg's patient was given 3-BP very shortly after port placed--then ended up hospitalized--no wonder.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:53 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is an interesting 3-BP article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058

They found a drug [7-aminocarboxycoumarins (7ACC)] that could selectively block lactate influx (but not efflux) while still allowing 3-BP to enter. Shutting off lactate influx could be very useful in cancer. You would be shutting off one of the main energy supplies of cancer cells.

"the reference MCT1 inhibitor AR-C155858"

"the 7ACC compounds blocked lactate influx, whereas the AR-C155858 compound failed to do so"

"we observed that lactate efflux by the highly glycolytic leukemia cells HL60, which express MCT1 but not MCT4 (Fig. 1A), was inhibited by AR-C155858 but not by the 7ACC compounds"

Be interesting to see what might happen if lactate influx and efflux could be prevented while still allowing 3-BP influx.

Wonder what other drugs might be in development that could amplify 3-BP treatment effects ( HIF-1 alpha drugs?)

Or more interestingly what might already be obrainable from the chemical houses!

The Mito-3-BP (T-3-BP-AuNP) idea has me intrigued. Pretty awesome! Take a postively charged tug boat, attach a payload, let the Mito drug be pulled into the negatively charged mitochondria-- and then well... white flag time for the cancer cell. We would no longer have to sit around thinking about markers of response at all. Cancer cells might have found a way to resist MCT-1 etc., though I do not quite see how they could possibly figure a way to resist the lipid by-layer. Everyone's by-layer should be pretty much the same. Probably has not change much since our slime mold days.

"The molecule comprises a positively charged lipophilic cation that drives its extensive accumulation within the negatively charged mitochondria inside cells."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ

"to target the mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψ m) was developed for delivery of 3-BP to cancer cell mitochondria by taking advantage of higher Δψm in cancer cells compared to normal cells."

"A family of proton-coupled monocarboxylate transporters (MCTs) are involved in the transport of monocarboxylic acids such as lactate, pyruvate, butyrate, and acetate across the plasma membrane. Although these transporters are up-regulated in cancer cells to compensate for the increased lactic acid production and consequent efflux from the cell, we hypothesized that 3-BP will face a tremendous challenge in its uptake by the MCTs in cancer cells. To circumvent this, mitochondria-targeted local delivery strategies can be extremely important to enhance the overall treatment efficacy and to reduce the toxic effects of 3-BP."

"The lipophilic TPP cations easily permeate lipid bilayers, driven by the plasma membrane potential (∼–30 to –60 mV), to enter the cytoplasm and then concentrate several hundred-fold into the mitochondria due to the large mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψm) (∼–150 to –180 mV) maintained across the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM)."

They then outlined how to make Mito-3-BP.

Mito-3-BP appears to be 20 up to 200 more effective than straight 3-BP. And then of course, they wanted to make things interesting so they went photothermal.

Wonder if there is enough selectivity for safety in cancer. The below article shows substantially greater efficacy of the Mito 3-BP versus straight 3-BP. With this targetting mechanism we could all stop worrying about MCT-1 entirely. Mito 3-BP would simply drag the 3-BP into cells across the bi-lipid bylayer without regard to the gate keeper proteins (MCT-1, MCT-4 etc. )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 02:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:47 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 6:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 6:22 PM Jcancom wrote:

That is true about the treatment of the melanoma patient. However, they dosed up over the course of about a month.

The doctors cautiously dosed up over a prolonged period of time. They did not start with 3 consecutive days of treatment after a line insertion. The Inspire thread explained that it can take days to recover from the operation for a line.

The one week hospitalization that resulted from this treatment is one of the only reports of severe adverse results from 3-BP aside from TLS respones. With the Florida patient 3-BP treatment did not create a TLS response. So, it is not clear why such a serious negative response would occur.
Do you mean a PICC. J? I will have to find that thread. Don is supposed to get a PICC but we don't need any more delays.
Recall that it was a port--fairly sure of that.  Anesthesia involved--I know--been there, done that.

I was supposed to have chemo the following day after the port surgery.  So very sick from the anesthesia--throat/chest swollen/difficulty breathing.  Osteopath said every bone in my neck was out causing pain, etc.

Expected then to do chemo the very next day feeling like that?  With all of its known aftereffects in this already weakened condition? Ridiculous!  I cancelled and the oncologist went berserk.  So did not go to him anymore.

I had commented on this about Rosenberg's patient back somewhere on this thread--there is more information about what happened, I believe, on a post.  Rosenberg's patient was given 3-BP very shortly after port placed--then ended up hospitalized--no wonder.
Ah yes...this is coming back to me. It's such a long thread that it's hard to find anything!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:03 PM
Quote | ReplyPepull Please!! Let's use the wikia for 3-BP and then the find function.

http://3bromopyruvate.wikia.com/wiki/Full6

Desired posts can be found on our thread at time below.

Sat Jun 06, 2015 05:25 PM
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:04 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is an interesting 3-BP article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058

They found a drug [7-aminocarboxycoumarins (7ACC)] that could selectively block lactate influx (but not efflux) while still allowing 3-BP to enter. Shutting off lactate influx could be very useful in cancer. You would be shutting off one of the main energy supplies of cancer cells.

"the reference MCT1 inhibitor AR-C155858"

"the 7ACC compounds blocked lactate influx, whereas the AR-C155858 compound failed to do so"

"we observed that lactate efflux by the highly glycolytic leukemia cells HL60, which express MCT1 but not MCT4 (Fig. 1A), was inhibited by AR-C155858 but not by the 7ACC compounds"

Be interesting to see what might happen if lactate influx and efflux could be prevented while still allowing 3-BP influx.

Wonder what other drugs might be in development that could amplify 3-BP treatment effects ( HIF-1 alpha drugs?)

Or more interestingly what might already be obrainable from the chemical houses!

The Mito-3-BP (T-3-BP-AuNP) idea has me intrigued. Pretty awesome! Take a postively charged tug boat, attach a payload, let the Mito drug be pulled into the negatively charged mitochondria-- and then well... white flag time for the cancer cell. We would no longer have to sit around thinking about markers of response at all. Cancer cells might have found a way to resist MCT-1 etc., though I do not quite see how they could possibly figure a way to resist the lipid by-layer. Everyone's by-layer should be pretty much the same. Probably has not change much since our slime mold days.

"The molecule comprises a positively charged lipophilic cation that drives its extensive accumulation within the negatively charged mitochondria inside cells."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ

"to target the mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψ m) was developed for delivery of 3-BP to cancer cell mitochondria by taking advantage of higher Δψm in cancer cells compared to normal cells."

"A family of proton-coupled monocarboxylate transporters (MCTs) are involved in the transport of monocarboxylic acids such as lactate, pyruvate, butyrate, and acetate across the plasma membrane. Although these transporters are up-regulated in cancer cells to compensate for the increased lactic acid production and consequent efflux from the cell, we hypothesized that 3-BP will face a tremendous challenge in its uptake by the MCTs in cancer cells. To circumvent this, mitochondria-targeted local delivery strategies can be extremely important to enhance the overall treatment efficacy and to reduce the toxic effects of 3-BP."

"The lipophilic TPP cations easily permeate lipid bilayers, driven by the plasma membrane potential (∼–30 to –60 mV), to enter the cytoplasm and then concentrate several hundred-fold into the mitochondria due to the large mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψm) (∼–150 to –180 mV) maintained across the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM)."

They then outlined how to make Mito-3-BP.

Mito-3-BP appears to be 20 up to 200 more effective than straight 3-BP. And then of course, they wanted to make things interesting so they went photothermal.

Wonder if there is enough selectivity for safety in cancer. The below article shows substantially greater efficacy of the Mito 3-BP versus straight 3-BP. With this targetting mechanism we could all stop worrying about MCT-1 entirely. Mito 3-BP would simply drag the 3-BP into cells across the bi-lipid bylayer without regard to the gate keeper proteins (MCT-1, MCT-4 etc. )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804
Hi J,

The lipid bilayer and in fact all membranes are supposed to be weaker in cancer cells. I have read extensively on sound (vibrational) healing and follow Dr. Mitchell Gaynor (oncologist)'s work quite closely. In his book and in other places are details of experiments where sound waves break down the weakend membranes of cancer cells, while leaving healthy cells intact. That would be similar to using lipotripsy for breaking down kidney stones (I had the pleasure of witnessing this when the Shah of Iran had it done at VGH back in the 80s), and specialized ultrasound techniques.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:10 PM
Quote | ReplyBack to the potassium meter a moment. I was able to calibrate it. It seems one stage is confusing when doing the douible calibration for enhanced accuracy.

I just found this (for another meter). It is very helpful in working out the numbers. Mine was 23. Don is asleep so I can't check at the moment.

Correlation of Saliva and Human Blood Serum Potassium Results

The Cardy results are reported in ppm (parts per million), so saliva results are calculated by multiplying the saliva potassium measurements on the Cardy Potassium Meter by 0.026 to convert the values from ppm to mmol/L.

The correlation results are based on normal human ranges for blood serum as 3.5 - 5.5 mmol/L and for saliva as 8 - 40 mmol/L. The saliva values, as measured by the Cardy K+ meter, have proven accurate when compared to serum values drawn and processed in labs.
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:18 PM
Quote | ReplyThe Mito approach to drug delivery seems really clever.

Take a positively charged tug boat, attach a drug. And voila!

The drug will be dragged through the cell membrane because (the inside of the cell is negatively charged) and then on to the powerhouse of the cell-- the mitochondria-- which due to its creating the proton motive force is negatively charged relative to the cell.

There is no obvious way how a cancer cell could possibly resist such an attack. It is fairly easy for cancer cells to stop 3-BP from entering the cell if all they need to do is remove protein transporters such as MCT-1. However, a cancer cell could not stop entry through the plasma membrane. It is too fundamentally necessary for biology. It was the first biological revolution that happened billions of years ago.

Mito 3-BP does not depend on any assumptions about cell receptors to be effective. It would not be easy to think of how any cancer cell could resist such a drug.

And after all this time, the plasma membrane has not changed all that much. It is probably one of the most evolutionarily constrained aspects in all of biology.

"The MCT is implicated as a 3-BP transporter and free 3-BP might not enter cells in the absence of MCT. When 3-BP is conjugated to a mitochondria-targeted NP system, as in the T-3-BP-AuNPs, even in the absence of MCTs or when the MCTs are engaged in the cellular efflux of excess lactate in highly proliferative glycolytic cancers, T-3-BP-AuNPs with Δψ m-targeted –TPP moieties will be taken up by cancer cells by the utilization of the natural uptake mechanisms of AuNPs and the fact that cancer cells frequently have more negatively charged Δψ m    "

Oh, yeah here's how to make Mito-3-BP.  Anyone know where we could score some ethyl(dimethylaminopropyl) carbodiimide (EDC)?

"Synthesis of T-3-BP-AuNPs and NT-3-BP-AuNPs
3-BP was conjugated to the surface of the T-AuNPs and NT-AuNPs by amide coupling. 3-BP (30 mg, 0.18 mmol), N-hydroxysuccinimide (NHS) (39 mg, 0.12 mmol), and ethyl(dimethylaminopropyl) carbodiimide (EDC) (30 mg, 0.18 mmol) were dissolved in H2O (5 mL). 3-BP was allowed to activate for 6 h at 25 °C. To this, T-AuNPs or NT-AuNPs (10 mg mL–1, 5 mL) were added and the mixture stirred overnight at 25 °C. NPs were purified by dialysis (MW cutoff of 2000 Da) against water for 8 h changing the water every hour. NPs were lyophilized and freshly resuspended in nanopure water prior to use."
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:34 PM
Quote | ReplyOh this is so amazing about the potassium monitor (and hopefully the uric acid monitor as well).

I think the thread should chalk me up for a score on this one. Public recognition would be appreciated. Jcancom +1. There might be a few minuses on my account that we could just tactfully ignore (the lactate monitor idea springs to mind).

I was sort of worried that people on the thread would start to think less of me for encouraging desperate people to buy devices that cost a fair amount of money which never helped anyone.

About now I'm just going to do the freaky jive dance in the end zone.  Woo Hoo!

If we can now work through all the details of the potassium saliva monitor and how it relates to serum levels, then others on the thread would have a powerful weapon in guarding against TLS.

Potassium levels are one of the most dangerous components related to TLS. If your electrolytes go out of range a fatal heart problem can quickly ensue. With one of these portable monitors, you could measure potassium levels whenever you liked and receive instant results.

Some members of the thread treating with 3-BP have waited up to a week to find out lab results. That would be a very very anxious week waiting to find out if possibly fatally high potassium levels have occurred to 3-BP being overly-successful. Even in hospital environments patients can go days without a proper diagnosis for TLS. This adds enormous risk to patients.

Having access to instant readouts on potassium levels could be a real game changer for 3-BP treatment.

What is the correlation between saliva and serum potassium levels?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 7:34 PM Jcancom wrote:

Oh this is so amazing about the potassium monitor (and hopefully the uric acid monitor as well).

I think the thread should chalk me up for a score on this one. Public recognition would be appreciated. Jcancom +1. There might be a few minuses on my account that we could just tactfully ignore (the lactate monitor idea springs to mind).

I was sort of worried that people on the thread would start to think less of me for encouraging desperate people to buy devices that cost a fair amount of money which never helped anyone.

About now I'm just going to do the freaky jive dance in the end zone.  Woo Hoo!

If we can now work through all the details of the potassium saliva monitor and how it relates to serum levels, then others on the thread would have a powerful weapon in guarding against TLS.

Potassium levels are one of the most dangerous components related to TLS. If your electrolytes go out of range a fatal heart problem can quickly ensue. With one of these portable monitors, you could measure potassium levels whenever you liked and receive instant results.

Some members of the thread treating with 3-BP have waited up to a week to find out lab results. That would be a very very anxious week waiting to find out if possibly fatally high potassium levels have occurred to 3-BP being overly-successful. Even in hospital environments patients can go days without a proper diagnosis for TLS. This adds enormous risk to patients.

Having access to instant readouts on potassium levels could be a real game changer for 3-BP treatment.

What is the correlation between saliva and serum potassium levels?
Well, I have never thought less of you for suggesting this J! Less of myself for being such a ditz. I was actually relieved that everyone else seemed to have missed the same point (If anyone has difficultly calibrating, please feel free to ask!)

Not sure what you mean by "What is the correlation...." J.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:53 PM
Quote | ReplyMoonlitnight, I do not understand your reading.

You said you read out at 23. That should be 23 ppm. If one were to convert using the 0.026 factor to go from ppm --> mmol/L  then that should be 0.598 mmol/L. The normal range noted was 8 - 40 mmol/L for saliva ???  Was it 0.026 or 0.26 for the conversion factor? 0.26 would at least move of us into the right ballpark.

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 7:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

Moonlitnight, I do not understand your reading.

You said you read out at 23. That should be 23 ppm. If one were to convert using the 0.026 factor to go from ppm --> mmol/L  then that should be 0.598 mmol/L. The normal range noted was 8 - 40 mmol/L for saliva ???  Was it 0.026 or 0.26 for the conversion factor? 0.26 would at least move of us into the right ballpark.

Then maybe it was calibrates incorrectly. I got something close to 900 ppm. I multiplied that by 0.026 and came up with 23.4. The calculator was the built-in microsoft one.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 03:58 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 7:57 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 7:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

Moonlitnight, I do not understand your reading.

You said you read out at 23. That should be 23 ppm. If one were to convert using the 0.026 factor to go from ppm --> mmol/L  then that should be 0.598 mmol/L. The normal range noted was 8 - 40 mmol/L for saliva ???  Was it 0.026 or 0.26 for the conversion factor? 0.26 would at least move of us into the right ballpark.

Then maybe it was calibrates incorrectly. I got something close to 900 ppm. I multiplied that by 0.026 and came up with 23.4. The calculator was the built-in microsoft one.
That is the ppm to mmol conversion.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 04:06 PM
Quote | ReplyAbout the correlation--- Mostly in these sorts of circumstances to confirm that the portable actually works, they might simulataneoulsy measure saliva readings from the monitor and a lab or salica readings on the monitor and serum readings measured through a lab. They would want to be sure that the saliva reading correlated well with serum levels. If the numbers correlated well then you could have confidence that a saliva reading would give you accurate information about the serum level which is what you are very interested in. It would be hard to imagine that the FDA would ever allow these monitors on the market if this research hadnot been done.

If this all checked out you would have your own home lab to monitor for the earliest signs of TLS which would be incredibly important.

This thread is really driving the discussion on 3-BP treatment. I wonder whether the clinics treating with 3-BP use such portable potassium monitors. I have been tending to favor letting medical professionals do the treating with 3-BP, though if they were going to be so reckless as not test for a potentially fatal side effect with a simple monitor I would not be so sure that clinics were treating patients with appropriate diligence.

It should not be assumed that since they are doctors they must know what they are doing. Pubmed has quite a few patient reports where patients waited days after becoming quite for a diagnosis of TLS (and sometimes died) because no one knew that a TLS response was underway.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 04:10 PM
Quote | ReplyOh, sure 900 ppm would give you 23.4 mmol/L which is almost exactly in the middle of the normal range.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 04:13 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 8:06 PM Jcancom wrote:

About the correlation--- Mostly in these sorts of circumstances to confirm that the portable actually works, they might simulataneoulsy measure saliva readings from the monitor and a lab or salica readings on the monitor and serum readings measured through a lab. They would want to be sure that the saliva reading correlated well with serum levels. If the numbers correlated well then you could have confidence that a saliva reading would give you accurate information about the serum level which is what you are very interested in. It would be hard to imagine that the FDA would ever allow these monitors on the market if this research hadnot been done.

If this all checked out you would have your own home lab to monitor for the earliest signs of TLS which would be incredibly important.

This thread is really driving the discussion on 3-BP treatment. I wonder whether the clinics treating with 3-BP use such portable potassium monitors. I have been tending to favor letting medical professionals do the treating with 3-BP, though if they were going to be so reckless as not test for a potentially fatal side effect with a simple monitor I would not be so sure that clinics were treating patients with appropriate diligence.

It should not be assumed that since they are doctors they must know what they are doing. Pubmed has quite a few patient reports where patients waited days after becoming quite for a diagnosis of TLS (and sometimes died) because no one knew that a TLS response was underway.
I can assure you that if I went into either of our emergency departments, brandishing a meter and figures showing quite clearly that TLS was happening, they would say that this ONLY happens with leukaemias and lymphomas. I have heard this from the naturopath and from the medical docs ad nauseum. I mentioned to the naturopath that TLS has happened with 3BP and he just shook his head. No one seems to get that this is outside of their frames of reference/clinical experience I have allopurinol in my medicine cabinet for this reason. That reminds me, I must calibrate the urinary monitor this afternoon.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 04:28 PM
Quote | ReplyIt would obviously be a good idea to have the pathway for TLS treatment to be worked out well in advance with the local hospital. If they just did not conceptually understand how such a thing could happen, then you would not want to have try to convince them you needed immediatetreatment. Though perhaps DIY 3-BP treatment followed by DIY TLS (if necessary) should actually be considered best medical practice.

With the Canadian system you would not have much leverage. It is not as though the Canadian courts would allow a multi-billion dollar punitive settlement as they might in the States. In the States you could have all your registered return receipt letters ready to go if they had comprehension problems surrounding TLS. I wonder whether that would do it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sat Aug 01, 2015 06:28 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 8:28 PM Jcancom wrote:

It would obviously be a good idea to have the pathway for TLS treatment to be worked out well in advance with the local hospital. If they just did not conceptually understand how such a thing could happen, then you would not want to have try to convince them you needed immediatetreatment. Though perhaps DIY 3-BP treatment followed by DIY TLS (if necessary) should actually be considered best medical practice.

With the Canadian system you would not have much leverage. It is not as though the Canadian courts would allow a multi-billion dollar punitive settlement as they might in the States. In the States you could have all your registered return receipt letters ready to go if they had comprehension problems surrounding TLS. I wonder whether that would do it.
I have asked this question at the hospital and have been told that, if the treatment was not an accepted treatment, then they would not believe it was a specific outcome (!!!) That means you could sit around for hours while they triaged ingrown toenails and kids with earaches. Of course, if a physician were to write, "This patient is taking 3BP, a substance that could cause TLS. Please act accordingly and STAT"  then this could be presented but none of our physicians will even listen to what Don is taking. I guess not listening is also a requirement.  I wonder if I could get a medic alert bracelet done up...that might work.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Aug 01, 2015 06:54 PM
Quote | ReplyWow, I am just so glad that we have our own thread to talk about this. There are probably not that many on the thread who would have a great response if a hospital full of doctors said "Don't Worry about TLS it's never happened before in solid tumors!"

That is not true! Both the reported patients treated with 3-BP either did have or soon would have experienced a TLS response. The liver patients had a documented near fatal TLS response. The melanoma patient's tumor metabolically completely collapsed after combination treatements with paracetamol. He likely would have also experienced TLS.

I was thinking more to contact the nearest hosptial to make sure they hadAllopurinolin their pharmacy, I had not thought it would be a cognitive issue for them. That just takes this to such a crazy level of hyperdimensional chess that I do not want to even think about it. About all I could think of if they just would not listen would be to go to the pharmacy and start a wrestling match with the pharmacist to get the allopurinol.

Sort of reminds me about a book that talked about Scientific Revolutions.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Sat Aug 01, 2015 06:54 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 10:28 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 8:28 PM Jcancom wrote:

It would obviously be a good idea to have the pathway for TLS treatment to be worked out well in advance with the local hospital. If they just did not conceptually understand how such a thing could happen, then you would not want to have try to convince them you needed immediatetreatment. Though perhaps DIY 3-BP treatment followed by DIY TLS (if necessary) should actually be considered best medical practice.

With the Canadian system you would not have much leverage. It is not as though the Canadian courts would allow a multi-billion dollar punitive settlement as they might in the States. In the States you could have all your registered return receipt letters ready to go if they had comprehension problems surrounding TLS. I wonder whether that would do it.
I have asked this question at the hospital and have been told that, if the treatment was not an accepted treatment, then they would not believe it was a specific outcome (!!!) That means you could sit around for hours while they triaged ingrown toenails and kids with earaches. Of course, if a physician were to write, "This patient is taking 3BP, a substance that could cause TLS. Please act accordingly and STAT"  then this could be presented but none of our physicians will even listen to what Don is taking. I guess not listening is also a requirement.  I wonder if I could get a medic alert bracelet done up...that might work.
Would not hurt to cover all of your bases as best as possible--so just might work to have a medic alert bracelet.

Even that cannot be a guarantee that there will be an appropriate response though. Years ago my mother--who has myasthenia gravis--had to go to the ER.  Fainting spell.  She had on her medic alert bracelet regarding MG--they did not respect it one bit.  Failed to allow me to make sure my mother had her Mestinon (pyrodostigmine) on time--later on the doctor was appalled that the nurses did not cooperate with my requests and urgency that my mother not miss her medication.

Without this pill, she could have gone into a crisis mode--this pill allows for synapse to take place between muscle and nerve endings.  Breathing could have stopped completely.

So I feel that something is very, very wrong in our medical system today--always had high regard for the profession.  Now not so much....disillushioned with quagmire thinking in abundance by those in "control".  Sometimes ignorance is bliss with them--that way they are not "responsible".  And, heaven forbid, that they think "outside of the box"!

But do everything you can to try to counteract their negativity--and protect yourself and Don as much as possible.  I know you are very vigilant about this already. Kudos to you for your endurance and bravery throughout all of this!
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:16 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:38 PM Moonlitnight wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 6:22 PM Jcancom wrote:

That is true about the treatment of the melanoma patient. However, they dosed up over the course of about a month.

The doctors cautiously dosed up over a prolonged period of time. They did not start with 3 consecutive days of treatment after a line insertion. The Inspire thread explained that it can take days to recover from the operation for a line.

The one week hospitalization that resulted from this treatment is one of the only reports of severe adverse results from 3-BP aside from TLS respones. With the Florida patient 3-BP treatment did not create a TLS response. So, it is not clear why such a serious negative response would occur.
Do you mean a PICC. J? I will have to find that thread. Don is supposed to get a PICC but we don't need any more delays.
A picc line insertion isnt as extreme as a port.  He will have a local and should be good to go the next day :)
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:57 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 01, 2015 6:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is an interesting 3-BP article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058

They found a drug [7-aminocarboxycoumarins (7ACC)] that could selectively block lactate influx (but not efflux) while still allowing 3-BP to enter. Shutting off lactate influx could be very useful in cancer. You would be shutting off one of the main energy supplies of cancer cells.

"the reference MCT1 inhibitor AR-C155858"

"the 7ACC compounds blocked lactate influx, whereas the AR-C155858 compound failed to do so"

"we observed that lactate efflux by the highly glycolytic leukemia cells HL60, which express MCT1 but not MCT4 (Fig. 1A), was inhibited by AR-C155858 but not by the 7ACC compounds"

Be interesting to see what might happen if lactate influx and efflux could be prevented while still allowing 3-BP influx.

Wonder what other drugs might be in development that could amplify 3-BP treatment effects ( HIF-1 alpha drugs?)

Or more interestingly what might already be obrainable from the chemical houses!

The Mito-3-BP (T-3-BP-AuNP) idea has me intrigued. Pretty awesome! Take a postively charged tug boat, attach a payload, let the Mito drug be pulled into the negatively charged mitochondria-- and then well... white flag time for the cancer cell. We would no longer have to sit around thinking about markers of response at all. Cancer cells might have found a way to resist MCT-1 etc., though I do not quite see how they could possibly figure a way to resist the lipid by-layer. Everyone's by-layer should be pretty much the same. Probably has not change much since our slime mold days.

"The molecule comprises a positively charged lipophilic cation that drives its extensive accumulation within the negatively charged mitochondria inside cells."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ

"to target the mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψ m) was developed for delivery of 3-BP to cancer cell mitochondria by taking advantage of higher Δψm in cancer cells compared to normal cells."

"A family of proton-coupled monocarboxylate transporters (MCTs) are involved in the transport of monocarboxylic acids such as lactate, pyruvate, butyrate, and acetate across the plasma membrane. Although these transporters are up-regulated in cancer cells to compensate for the increased lactic acid production and consequent efflux from the cell, we hypothesized that 3-BP will face a tremendous challenge in its uptake by the MCTs in cancer cells. To circumvent this, mitochondria-targeted local delivery strategies can be extremely important to enhance the overall treatment efficacy and to reduce the toxic effects of 3-BP."

"The lipophilic TPP cations easily permeate lipid bilayers, driven by the plasma membrane potential (∼–30 to –60 mV), to enter the cytoplasm and then concentrate several hundred-fold into the mitochondria due to the large mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψm) (∼–150 to –180 mV) maintained across the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM)."

They then outlined how to make Mito-3-BP.

Mito-3-BP appears to be 20 up to 200 more effective than straight 3-BP. And then of course, they wanted to make things interesting so they went photothermal.

Wonder if there is enough selectivity for safety in cancer. The below article shows substantially greater efficacy of the Mito 3-BP versus straight 3-BP. With this targetting mechanism we could all stop worrying about MCT-1 entirely. Mito 3-BP would simply drag the 3-BP into cells across the bi-lipid bylayer without regard to the gate keeper proteins (MCT-1, MCT-4 etc. )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804
J -

This article is indeed interesting.  Any idea how much 7-aminocarboxycoumarin and where to get it?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 02, 2015 01:09 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 02, 2015 4:57 PM kcervantes wrote:

On Aug 01, 2015 6:53 PM Jcancom wrote:

This is an interesting 3-BP article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24672058

They found a drug [7-aminocarboxycoumarins (7ACC)] that could selectively block lactate influx (but not efflux) while still allowing 3-BP to enter. Shutting off lactate influx could be very useful in cancer. You would be shutting off one of the main energy supplies of cancer cells.

"the reference MCT1 inhibitor AR-C155858"

"the 7ACC compounds blocked lactate influx, whereas the AR-C155858 compound failed to do so"

"we observed that lactate efflux by the highly glycolytic leukemia cells HL60, which express MCT1 but not MCT4 (Fig. 1A), was inhibited by AR-C155858 but not by the 7ACC compounds"

Be interesting to see what might happen if lactate influx and efflux could be prevented while still allowing 3-BP influx.

Wonder what other drugs might be in development that could amplify 3-BP treatment effects ( HIF-1 alpha drugs?)

Or more interestingly what might already be obrainable from the chemical houses!

The Mito-3-BP (T-3-BP-AuNP) idea has me intrigued. Pretty awesome! Take a postively charged tug boat, attach a payload, let the Mito drug be pulled into the negatively charged mitochondria-- and then well... white flag time for the cancer cell. We would no longer have to sit around thinking about markers of response at all. Cancer cells might have found a way to resist MCT-1 etc., though I do not quite see how they could possibly figure a way to resist the lipid by-layer. Everyone's by-layer should be pretty much the same. Probably has not change much since our slime mold days.

"The molecule comprises a positively charged lipophilic cation that drives its extensive accumulation within the negatively charged mitochondria inside cells."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitoQ

"to target the mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψ m) was developed for delivery of 3-BP to cancer cell mitochondria by taking advantage of higher Δψm in cancer cells compared to normal cells."

"A family of proton-coupled monocarboxylate transporters (MCTs) are involved in the transport of monocarboxylic acids such as lactate, pyruvate, butyrate, and acetate across the plasma membrane. Although these transporters are up-regulated in cancer cells to compensate for the increased lactic acid production and consequent efflux from the cell, we hypothesized that 3-BP will face a tremendous challenge in its uptake by the MCTs in cancer cells. To circumvent this, mitochondria-targeted local delivery strategies can be extremely important to enhance the overall treatment efficacy and to reduce the toxic effects of 3-BP."

"The lipophilic TPP cations easily permeate lipid bilayers, driven by the plasma membrane potential (∼–30 to –60 mV), to enter the cytoplasm and then concentrate several hundred-fold into the mitochondria due to the large mitochondrial membrane potential (Δψm) (∼–150 to –180 mV) maintained across the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM)."

They then outlined how to make Mito-3-BP.

Mito-3-BP appears to be 20 up to 200 more effective than straight 3-BP. And then of course, they wanted to make things interesting so they went photothermal.

Wonder if there is enough selectivity for safety in cancer. The below article shows substantially greater efficacy of the Mito 3-BP versus straight 3-BP. With this targetting mechanism we could all stop worrying about MCT-1 entirely. Mito 3-BP would simply drag the 3-BP into cells across the bi-lipid bylayer without regard to the gate keeper proteins (MCT-1, MCT-4 etc. )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25709804 "" target="\_blank" 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J -

This article is indeed interesting.  Any idea how much 7-aminocarboxycoumarin and where to get it?
I think our good friends at Sigma, who won't send me salino, have it.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by kcervantes on Sun Aug 02, 2015 01:11 PM
Quote | ReplyI will look around:) just need to know how to admisterQuote | ReplyMore Sharing ServicesShare Share on email Share on facebook Share on twitterJcancom

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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 02:31 PM
Quote | ReplyWow! I just make stuff up a lot of the time. I never knew that you could actually buy the 7-aminocarboxycoumarin. All I seem to pull up at Sigma is the article (see url below).

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/PageNotFound.jsp?term=7-

But these guys are ready to horse trade. As noted in below url this is 7ACC1. 7ACC1 has similar properties to 7ACC2.

http://www.medchemexpress.com/7ACC1.html

From now on I am just going to do a lot more "et cetera et ceterta" when I am not sure about things and let everyone else fill in the blanks. Most of the time I would never  contribute these half-baked thoughts to the thread because I would not feel right saying "et cetera et cetera" if I wasn't sure what the et cetera et cetera part meant.

Now back to the topic. 7-aminocarboxycoumarin looks fairly awesome I must admit, especially with 3-BP. Stopping lactate influx while not stopping 3-BP influx is almost too good to be true. If only we could selectively also stop lactate efflux, then that would be super awesome. (The article goes into this further.) Taking away the lactate energy supply to cancer cells while feeding it toxic 3-BP should help.  Figure 3 from the article shows that 7ACC1 is more effective than cisplatin and probably quite a bit safer. If all you are doing is shutting off lactate uptake mostly in cancer cells how would that be toxic?

Surprising that 7ACC appears to be as effective as 3-BP in Figure 4F. There seems to be an additive benefit.

Not sure whether 7ACC could be effective if 3-BP was not, both seem to need the MCT-1 doorway (Figure 5 shows 7ACC shutting out lactate into cancer cells through MCT1 and MCT4) .

Interesting to see what a 7ACC1, 3-BP and paracetamol combo might do. TLS might be a problem. Too much of a good thing.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 02:46 PM
Quote | ReplyWonder whether 7ACC1 could combine with other energy blocking strategies. For example, metformin, keto diet ...

If 7ACC1 could block lactate, metformin could block glucose, keto diet removes glucose and replaces it with ketones, then might this amplify that approach? Not blocking lactate would be a weakness.

What are all sources of chemical energy available to cancer cells? (glucose, lactate, ...?).
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 02:56 PM
Quote | ReplyThe chemical house also sells 7ACC2, though the prices are pretty much out of reach. $2100 per 100 mg? Prices for 7ACC1 are at least plausible.

http://www.medchemexpress.com/7ACC2.html

Other MCT inhibitors are also noted some of these are extremely potent. Have any of these entered a clinical trial?
Quote | Reply

### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 03:05 PM
Quote | ReplyThey seem to have a full pharmacy. HIF could be a 3-BP combiner. Are any of these pathways drugged with a approved medication?

http://www.medchemexpress.com/Targets/HIF.html
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Sun Aug 02, 2015 07:41 PM
Quote | ReplyAlpha-cyano-4-hydroxycinnamic acid looks like it may help https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132848  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17277695  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17354062  If they don't get rid of this lactic acid then a cancer cell may end up dead

Glutamine targeting inhibits systemic metastasis in the VM-M3 murine tumor model *We evaluated the antimetastatic potential of 6-diazo-5-oxo-L-norleucine (DON), a glutamine analog, using the new VM mouse model of systemic metastasis. We found that primary tumor growth was ∼20-fold less in DON-treated mice than in untreated control mice. We also found that DON treatment inhibited metastasis to liver, lung and kidney as detected by bioluminescence imaging and histology. Our findings provide proof of concept that metabolic therapies targeting glutamine metabolism can manage systemic metastatic cancer* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946425/  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533463  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8649470  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1412455  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3970234/  http://meeting.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15\_suppl
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Sun Aug 02, 2015 08:57 PM
Quote | ReplyHusband's potassium is high...42. He feels like hell. Just trying to get the uric acid meter to work.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Meech90 on Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:55 PM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 03, 2015 12:57 AM Moonlitnight wrote:

Husband's potassium is high...42. He feels like hell. Just trying to get the uric acid meter to work.
As you probably know, high potassium levels can be indicative of TLS. As far as I know, high potassium levels aren't indicative of cancer growth nor are they a tumor marker. There are other causes that aren't TLS related that are equally serious (renal failure).

Severe hyperkalemia can lead to death. Is there an emergency room that he can be taken to in order to try to eliminate the potassium in his system; regardless of cause?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:04 PM
Quote | ReplyThis is a great learning moment: Everyone on the thread  take note!

Many might not have fully appreciated how crucially important these monitors would be in this situation and might want to save a few dollars. We can see this in this example how terribly bad an idea that would be. Ignorance is not bliss!

Imagine being in this situation and NOT having a potassium monitor. Think how very dangerous this would be!

Under normal circumstances (without your own potassium monitor, uric acid monitor, calcium monitor ...) you would have no idea what was happening. You might have to wait  days for a results. With your own monitor you can get an instant accurate result and possibly take action.

For example, reduce potassium intake etc.etc .

The TLS algorithm that I am looking at now is very simple. There is no great analysis to make this diagnosis.

It reads: "Measure serum potassium, phosphorus, creatinine, uric acid and urine output.

1  abnormal value ---> no TLS dianosis

2 abnormal values --->

A. If No symptoms ---> Lab TLS

High Risk of Clinical TLS

Treat with: IV fluids, Rasburicase

                     Monitor Cardiac Function

Lab tests every 6-8 hr.

B.  Acute kidney injury, symptomatic,      hypocalcemia, dysrhythmia ---> Clinical TLS

Treat with IV fluids, Rasburicase

Monitor Cardiac Function

                      Admit to ICU

Labs every 4-6 hr. "

I still would have to wonder whether Clinical TLS necessarily meant large scale tumor destruction were occuring. Could one be diagnosed with TLS as per the above algorithm and not have large scale cancer destruction?

Looks like ion selective calcium monitors are available. these ones are for fish tanks. Probably would be a little fishy buying one of these, though there might also be medical grade calcium monitros for people.

http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/pinpoint-monitors

Moonlitnight, have you been treating with 3-BP lately? How much paracetamol? Other supplements?

The positive here might be that 3-BP might actually be doing something.

Everyone on the thread is pulling for you.This  might get a little scary, I hope you have a plan for what you will do if you need help fast!

Best Wishes
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:07 PM
Quote | ReplyCorrect above post.

It reads: "Measure serum potassium, phosphorus, creatinine, calcium, uric acid and urine output."

Missed the calcium. Calcium is a big one.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:49 AM

Quote | Reply

On Aug 03, 2015 3:04 AM Jcancom wrote:

This is a great learning moment: Everyone on the thread  take note!

Many might not have fully appreciated how crucially important these monitors would be in this situation and might want to save a few dollars. We can see this in this example how terribly bad an idea that would be. Ignorance is not bliss!

Imagine being in this situation and NOT having a potassium monitor. Think how very dangerous this would be!

Under normal circumstances (without your own potassium monitor, uric acid monitor, calcium monitor ...) you would have no idea what was happening. You might have to wait  days for a results. With your own monitor you can get an instant accurate result and possibly take action.

For example, reduce potassium intake etc.etc "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  .

The TLS algorithm that I am looking at now is very simple. There is no great analysis to make this diagnosis.

It reads: "Measure serum potassium, phosphorus, creatinine, uric acid and urine output.

1  abnormal value ---> no TLS dianosis

2 abnormal values --->

A. If No symptoms ---> Lab TLS

High Risk of Clinical TLS

Treat with: IV fluids, Rasburicase

                     Monitor Cardiac Function

Lab tests every 6-8 hr.

B.  Acute kidney injury, symptomatic,      hypocalcemia, dysrhythmia ---> Clinical TLS

Treat with IV fluids, Rasburicase

Monitor Cardiac Function

                      Admit to ICU

Labs every 4-6 hr. "

I still would have to wonder whether Clinical TLS necessarily meant large scale tumor destruction were occuring. Could one be diagnosed with TLS as per the above algorithm and not have large scale cancer destruction?

Looks like ion selective calcium monitors are available. these ones are for fish tanks. Probably would be a little fishy buying one of these, though there might also be medical grade calcium monitros for people.

http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/pinpoint-monitors "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/pinpoint-monitors " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/pinpoint-monitors

Moonlitnight, have you been treating with 3-BP lately? How much paracetamol? Other supplements?

The positive here might be that 3-BP might actually be doing something.

Everyone on the thread is pulling for you.This "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  might get a little scary, I hope you have a plan for what you will do if you need help fast!

Best Wishes
Jcancom,

Your thoughts/ideas so very much appreciated by all of us--sincerely want you to know that.

And A.,--please know we all care so very much about you and your husband!  Keep us updated...
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Moonlitnight on Mon Aug 03, 2015 01:17 AM

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On Aug 03, 2015 4:49 AM jetsparkle wrote:

On Aug 03, 2015 3:04 AM Jcancom wrote:

This is a great learning moment: Everyone on the thread  take note!

Many might not have fully appreciated how crucially important these monitors would be in this situation and might want to save a few dollars. We can see this in this example how terribly bad an idea that would be. Ignorance is not bliss!

Imagine being in this situation and NOT having a potassium monitor. Think how very dangerous this would be!

Under normal circumstances (without your own potassium monitor, uric acid monitor, calcium monitor ...) you would have no idea what was happening. You might have to wait  days for a results. With your own monitor you can get an instant accurate result and possibly take action.

For example, reduce potassium intake etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">etc.etc  .

The TLS algorithm that I am looking at now is very simple. There is no great analysis to make this diagnosis.

It reads: "Measure serum potassium, phosphorus, creatinine, uric acid and urine output.

1  abnormal value ---> no TLS dianosis

2 abnormal values --->

A. If No symptoms ---> Lab TLS

High Risk of Clinical TLS

Treat with: IV fluids, Rasburicase

                     Monitor Cardiac Function

Lab tests every 6-8 hr.

B.  Acute kidney injury, symptomatic,      hypocalcemia, dysrhythmia ---> Clinical TLS

Treat with IV fluids, Rasburicase

Monitor Cardiac Function

                      Admit to ICU

Labs every 4-6 hr. "

I still would have to wonder whether Clinical TLS necessarily meant large scale tumor destruction were occuring. Could one be diagnosed with TLS as per the above algorithm and not have large scale cancer destruction?

Looks like ion selective calcium monitors are available. these ones are for fish tanks. Probably would be a little fishy buying one of these, though there might also be medical grade calcium monitros for people.

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Moonlitnight, have you been treating with 3-BP lately? How much paracetamol? Other supplements?

The positive here might be that 3-BP might actually be doing something.

Everyone on the thread is pulling for you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">you.This  might get a little scary, I hope you have a plan for what you will do if you need help fast!

Best Wishes
Jcancom,

Your thoughts/ideas so very much appreciated by all of us--sincerely want you to know that.

And A.,--please know we all care so very much about you and your husband!  Keep us updated...
FALSE ALARM!  Whew. The potassium meter measured 2400 for my husband, 1200 for me. I tested myself again - same thing. Tested him again, 2300. Panicked and got ready to go the Emerge when he kept insisting he felt better than he had all day. No symptoms. So I thought I'd check again...1300. And again: 1200. And again, 1300. I think the meter is wacky. Last reading was 1200 again.
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Mon Aug 03, 2015 03:43 AM

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On Aug 02, 2015 11:41 PM dumbcritic wrote:

Alpha-cyano-4-hydroxycinnamic acid looks like it may help https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132848 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132848 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132848  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17277695 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17277695 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17277695  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17354062 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17354062 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17354062  If they don't get rid of this lactic acid then a cancer cell may end up dead

Glutamine targeting inhibits systemic metastasis in the VM-M3 murine tumor model *We evaluated the antimetastatic potential of 6-diazo-5-oxo-L-norleucine (DON), a glutamine analog, using the new VM mouse model of systemic metastasis. We found that primary tumor growth was ∼20-fold less in DON-treated mice than in untreated control mice. We also found that DON treatment inhibited metastasis to liver, lung and kidney as detected by bioluminescence imaging and histology. Our findings provide proof of concept that metabolic therapies targeting glutamine metabolism can manage systemic metastatic cancer* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946425/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946425/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946425/  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533463 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533463 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533463  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8649470 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8649470 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8649470  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1412455 "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1412455 " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1412455  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3970234/ "" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3970234/ " target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3970234/  http://meeting.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15\_suppl /2533"" target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://meeting.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15\_suppl  target="\_blank" rel="nofollow">http://meeting.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15\_suppl
Dumbcritic, this is very interesting info and can be a good addition next to 3BP. The treatment schedule they used is clear: 140 mg/m2 DON (twice weekly) both as 15 min intravenous infusions. Three weeks were considered one cycle and tumor assessment (RECIST) was performed every two cycles. The treatment was very well tolerated. Most frequent (>2%) possibly related NCI-CTC grade 3 or 4 non-hematological toxicities were fatigue in 5 (9.1 %), nausea in 3 (5.5%), vomiting in 2 (3.6%) and diarrhea in 2 (3.6%) pts.

And the subsyance is available http://www.carbosynth.com/carbosynth/website.nsf/(w-productdisplay)/07945AE4CF6C572180257D9A005E1CA8

Have you considered using it?
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### RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Caddy on Mon Aug 03, 2015 04:02 AM
Quote | ReplyMost of the papers cited here are (relatively) old. You have to wonder why it hasn't been picked up and followed-through. Is it simply that the pharmas can't see a patent in it?
Quote | Reply