Article/EGM232 Final Fantasy Interviews

#### A Day in the Life Of... Hironobu Sakaguchi

> The creator of Final Fantasy revisits his early days at Square and how one of the biggest franchises came to be By James Mielke
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> WHILE JAPAN’S ERA AS THE predominant force in the videogame industry may be over, it’s not for lack of trying. Gaming’s still a relatively young industry, barely 35 or so years old, and many of the veteran mavericks who pioneered this form of entertainment are still giving it their best shot. Take, for example, Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi. While role-playing games existed well before the first iteration of the far-from-final fantasy he would invoke, none galvanized the genre quite as powerfully as his original NES classic.
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> Having departed Square Enix some years ago to form his own independent development studio, Mistwalker, Sakaguchi isn't resting on his considerable laurels. With Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat under his belt, he’s set his sights on the horizon, expanding the Blue Dragon series on DS and working on a number of top-secret works-in-progress. We caught up with the man responsible for over two decades’ worth of role-playing hits to talk about his past—and, naturally, his future.
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> ЕСМ: When you were а kid, could you even have imagined what you’re doing now? Did your career happen because of some pivotal moment?
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> Hironobu Sakaguchi: Like when I was really small, or when I was a student? As I was growing up?
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> EGM: Well, computer games didn’t really exist when you were a kid, so what were your initial interests? Maybe you were really into tennis, for example, and then you eventually started at Square.
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> HS: Music was a very important subject to me; I loved music and was actually writing my own lyrics and music, so I thought I was going to go in that direction. At that time, there weren't any PCs. When I got into college, that’s when | saw the first computers that I could actually do something with, but back then, I couldn’t afford any official products. I still remember the NEC models PC-8001 [in 1979] and PC-6001 [in 1981], and Apple had machines in Japan back then, though they were pricey. Still,
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> 1 couldn't afford any of those brands. But there were also imitation models at that time, and they were about one-tenth of the price, so that’s what I could afford. That’s when I first realized that computers were something that would change my future.
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> EGM: When did this happen?
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> HS: Around 25 years ago. I completely dropped everything on the music side once 1 got my Apple II and started buying my own software—even sacrificing lunch or any snacks. Computers were becoming my big thing. Do you know Nasir Gebelli? He's an Iranian-American who made Horizon V and Zenith, ЗО games on the Apple И. Long story short, he eventually became the main programmer on Final Fantasy. I considered Nasir. to be my god, because he made the first 3D games I played on the Apple II. At one point, the then-president of Square came to the States, where Nasir was, and the president wanted to introduce me to Nasir. I met him, and I couldn’t even believe that I was standing in front of this guy that I considered king. From there, things started happening. Final Fantasy—the game, the concept, and everything – came to be, and he became the main programmer.
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> EGM: What’s happened to him since?
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> HS: He’s about five years older than me, and I don’t believe he’s doing any game related programming anymore. He’s in Sacramento, probably retired. There's actually an interesting post-Final Fantasy story regarding him. Nasir was in Japan on a working visa, but it expired, so he had to return the States and Sacramento, where he's from. So for Final Fantasy II and Ill, our staff actually brought all the equipment, everything that was necessary to finish those games, to Sacramento, because he couldn’t come back to Japan.
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> EGM: They took everything to Sacramento?
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> HS: Yeah. We finished Final Fantasy И and Ш іп Sacramento, California. [Laughs]
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> ЕGM: How did you first become involved with Square?
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> HS: Well, my friends and | were working on creating software for the Apple Il. As a part-time gig—it was like the equivalent of an internship in the States—we applied to Square during spring break [in 1983]. That was the first step into Square.
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> ЕGМ: How big was Square at the time you joined?
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> HS: Just five people before I joined.
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> EGM: What was Square doing then?
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> Well, Square wasn’t the Square that we all know today at the time I joined. They weren’t making any software. The office was located near the Yokohama campus of Keio University. And back then, not every student – unlike us, nowadays – could afford a PC or any sort of computer equipment. So, students would buy time to use the PCs. It was almost like an –
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> EGM: Internet café?
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> HS: Yeah, just like that, but 25 years ago. [Laughs] So there were about 20 PCs lined up, and students would come in to study, and then they would leave. It was an hourly PC café.
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> EGM: So, how'd you go from joining them as an intern-level type to making games? Did you say, “Hey, check out this game that I made,” and somebody there saw its potential?
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> HS: Just around the time I got hired, Square started looking into making games, so they were looking for amateur programmers and people interested in computers. So, including myself, eight of us joined the company as contract employees. And that’s where the game-making process started with the company.
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> EGM: Final Fantasy is interesting because it brought together three critical creative elements: you, composer Nobuo Uematsu, and character designer Yoshitaka Amano. How did all of that come together?
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> HS: Yeah, just like that, but 25 years ago. [Laughs] So there were about 20 PCs lined up, and students would come in to study, and then they would leave. It was an hourly PC café.
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> EGM: So, how'd you go from joining them as an intern-level type to making games? Did you say, “Hey, check out this game that I made,” and somebody there saw its potential?
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> HS: Just around the time I got hired, Square started looking into making games, so they were looking for amateur programmers and people interested in computers. So, including myself, eight of us joined the company as contract employees. And that’s where the game-making process started with the company.
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> EGM: Final Fantasy is interesting because it brought together three critical creative elements: you, composer Nobuo Uematsu, and character designer Yoshitaka Amano. How did all of that come together?
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> HS: Well, it's a very simple story of how Uematsu and I came together. Square was right by [the Yokohama campus of] Keio University in the city’s Hiyoshi district. He was working part-time at a music-rental shop, and one of our employees—a female employee who was working on the art side of things—knew him. We needed someone to compose music for our next game, so we asked him if he was interested in doing it. That’s how we got to know each other. It was just on the street, basically: “Hey, what's up? I heard you can write music. Why don’t you write music for us?”
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> EGM: Did you guys feel like a bunch of electro-hippies on the street? “Hey, dude! Make some music for our game!”
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> HS: Yeah, it was a totally casual, “Hey, what’s up?”
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> ЕСМ: So you had the music, but you knew you needed art. This preceded what we know now as “character design”. How did you go about drafting Yoshitaka Amano into the project?
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> HS: Well, back then we were able to create pixelated art with our in-house staff. Koichi Ishii [who later went on to direct the Mana series] was able to handle that, and his quality was really high. So if we were to just make a game based off what he provided, we were able to do that. But since Final Fantasy was the first title in what would become a huge series—being a role-playing game and having a huge story and world and everything else behind it—we thought we were limiting ourselves if we didn’t pursue some other image or illustration that would open up the world of the game beyond just the pixelated art. I was able to provide Amano with the scenario for Final Fantasy, but beyond that, I left it up to him to fulfill the areas that weren’t necessarily written scenarios or components of the actual game. I wanted him to make it a broader world and widen what could possibly be the world of Final Fantasy. So that was the approach that we had for him.
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> EGM: And what he provided wasn’t even like what he’d really done before, at least when he was at anime production company Tatsunoko. What was your initial reaction to what Amano gave you?
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> HS: I was amazed. Amazed. Just amazed. It was completely beyond my expectations, and the way it was beyond my expectations was that it was so strong and bold, and I could tell a lot of energy and thought went into it. And I still remember exactly what it looked like: It was a giant with four small characters standing below it. When I saw it, I was just amazed at what I was seeing before my eyes. "I'll never forget the moment I first saw that. At the time, I thought, “Well, maybe one day, we can translate this image into an actual game." That's how strong— that's how meaningful—it was. Finally, now, more than 20 years later, games are getting very close to what I actually saw.
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> EGM: How do you feel about the fact that nobody's actually made an RPG that's done Amano's art justice? There aren't any games out there just yet that look like his paintings in 3D.
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> HS: It would be so amazing if Amano’s artwork came to life – the exact thing I saw back then – in a game. Yeah, we have a little bit more to go, but I think we’re getting close. And even if his art isn’t in a video game form, it’s still alive. It’s always alive. So to see that, to realize that in game form and let it come alive, would be the best thing ever.
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> EGM: Did you ever feel any kind of rivalry with Enix and Dragon Quest? You eventually caught up and passed them as far as the number of games, but Dragon Quest always had Yuji Horii at the helm, and Final Fantasy always had you. So, was there any kind of intense rivalry, or was it more casual than that?
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> HS: There was definitely a rivalry; even though you may not have seen it in our expressions, it was definitely there. We were the late bloomers, but we knew—by the numbers, as you said—that we were going to beat them at some point, so when we did, we were really happy! [Laughs] But at the same time, we eventually worked with Horii on Chrono Trigger, and he’s a genius. The way he writes scripts and the meanings that come out of his stories are one-of-a-kind. He’s got his own special touch, and I’ve got a lot of respect for him. I think the touch is in his script and how he writes his storylines. Being Japanese and reading it in Japanese, it’s the perfect scenario. But I’m not quite sure that when it's translated—
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> EGM: That the English-language script still captures all of the nuances?
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> HS: Yeah, exactly. I don’t know if it’s being translated properly, or if it has his special touch. That’s up to the users to make that determination. But that’s probably the main attraction of Horii.
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> EGM: The arrival of 32-bit systems and Final Fantasy VII were real turning points for Square. Not only did Amano’s artwork not take center stage— everything moved over to Tetsuya Nomura—but it was also a really exciting time; you guys left Nintendo behind. Can you recall what that era was like around 1996 and 1997?
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> HS: Yeah, that was a major turning point. We all remember when Final Fantasy made the move to the PlayStation platform. At that time, we knew the next wave in gaming was 3D, so there was a lot of research going on. We spent an enormous amount of time researching our next big goal and how to achieve it. We purchased a lot of Silicon Graphics machines and did a mock-up of Final Fantasy using those machines – so there was actually a completed version of the first Final Fantasy using the Silicon Graphics machines where you could control the characters with a mouse; we were convinced it would be the basis for the next Final Fantasy. So when we looked at the Nintendo 64 and the limitations with the cartridge format versus the disc-based Playstation, we didn’t really have to think about it. We needed discs for storage space and in order to do that, the Playstation was pretty much the only choice we had. So I said, “I’m sorry, Nintendo!” [Laughs]
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> EGM: You started with Square when they were very embryonic, and now you’ve started over with Mistwalker. How is it different creating a game studio now versus 25 years ago?
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> HS: Talking simply about the product, every game that we’re going to come out with is the biggest challenge; every time we approach a пеw idea, а new concept, that’s a challenge that we want to overcome. At Mistwalker, though, we can’t just play around and create games; there’s always a business side to it. So from a business standpoint, it’s having a good balance between the business-operation side and being able to put out something that’s going to be widely accepted by consumers.
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> But in the end, it really comes down to the product that we put out in front of every single consumer, and how proud we can be about that product. We can call it a trial-and-error process, but we still have a lot of challenges; we have limitations and boundaries with each new console that comes out. But being able to maximize our strengths and taking advantage of each console and being able to formulate something that | imagine or envision when | decide to make my next game—executing that is always going to be my goal. It continues to be my goal.
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#### Yoshitaka Amano

> EGM: We just came from Uematsu’s house, and we were asking him what his dream project would be. And he said that if he could have anything in the world, he’d want to work on a new project with you, Tanaka, and Sakaguchi together. What do you think about that?
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> Yoshitaka Amano: Me, too! That's a great idea—very fun, very interesting. I’d want to do that, too!
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> ЕСМ: When you first started working on the original Final Fantasy, I guess you were working on designs based on what Sakaguchi was asking you to provide for the game. Now, if you were to work on this dream project that Uematsu was talking about, and you were able to do what- ever you wanted in terms of its world or its characters, what would you provide if you were given a blank slate? Would you create a world based on your Acorn characters? Would you do something completely different?
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> YA: I wouldn't know until that time comes, but I'd probably make something totally new. Because that’s what a creator is always trying to do - something new. But whatever I did in the past is already in me, so there’s no reason to go back to my old productions. That's why I'm always producing new stuff. So if this were to happen, I'd probably think of something totally new. Creativity is like a swinging bar; when you create something new, it swings more. But it's still tracing the tracks that you've made in the past.
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#### Nobuo Uematsu

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> EGM: If you could work on any kind of dream project, what would it be?
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> Nobuo Uematsu:  Last December was Final Fantasy's 20th anniver- sary, so we had a 20th-anniversary gathering, and all the creators went out to drink. So there was me, Sakaguchi, [FFX/ Producer Hiromichi] Tanaka, and all the old-school Square members. If I could do something again with those guys, that’d be my dream project. My dream project would be to work on a game with all of them again because our skills have grown a lot over the past 20 years, but our motivations toward making games haven't changed – in fact, they might’ve even grown. So I think it’d be pretty awesome to work with them again.
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> EGM: How often—and this is an important question—do you use your theremin?
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> NU: | haven't played it at any performances—like my concerts—at all. Гуе been trying to use it, but it's difficult to manage. So I'm waiting to use it, but 1 want to use it at one of my Black Mages [Uematsu's personal instrumental band—Ed.] concerts.
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> EGM: Have you gotten out lately? Are there any movies that you want to see?
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> NU: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull! Back in the day, when I was making Final Fantasy with Sakaguchi, we were always talking about the Indy Jones films. Like, in the first five minutes, it’s always “boom, action.” The first five minutes were able to grab the viewer's heart—just grab them right there. So I was always saying to Sakaguchi that I want to make a game like that. I’m not sure if we ever succeeded or not. But I wanted the first five minutes to give the impact, where you just want to play this game and get hooked in the first five minutes. That’s what we've always been trying to do—be like Indy Jones.
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#### Hiromichi Tanaka

> IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW I'T-—except for the still-populated realm of Final Fantasy XI. This massively multiplayer online role-playing game is still thriving thanks to a dedicated legion of fans who simply won't accept the reality that their fantasy world may eventually end—or not. We recently spoke with Square Enix Producer Hiromichi Tanaka to find out the fate of FFX/ and what his talented team is working on next.
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> EGM: Since Final Fantasy XI is the only successful MMORPG to ever hit a videogame console—surviving for seven years and counting—can you tell us what you think has attributed to FFXI's long-lasting success?
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> Hiromichi Tanaka : Actually, that's a mystery to us as well. But the fact that the users have stuck with the game for so long gives us something to build off of. And the opinions that we get from the players—we take that, and we try to give something back. And it’s that constant back- and-forth with the players, and the success that we’ve had communicating with our fans, that’s helped us continue for so long.
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> EGM: How do you feel about the state of Japanese game development? Nowadays, it seems like only the top-tier Japanese game developers are able to survive and create cutting-edge stuff, while most of the lower-tier developers seem to be going the way of downloadable games only.
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> НТ: Yes, this is something that our president, Yoichi Wada, seems to be touching on a lot lately. The Japanese market really hasn’t changed that much. It hasn’t gone up or down. Whereas, especially over time, switching to more powerful machines means more and more users in the European and U.S. markets. And because there are more users over there, that’s why that market seems to be get- ting bigger. And while the Japanese market's not getting smaller, it's just not moving like the other two markets are.
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> ЕОМ: What have you learned from making 55 that you'll specifically take into your next MMO? Will there be any more expansions for FFXI?
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> HT: First of all, the [upcoming] MMO that we'll be working on is going to be different than Final Fantasy XI. And even though we have the same staff working on the project, and we’ve seen the good things from FFXI...we've also seen the things that the players maybe didn't like as much—including the bad things. We're going to be using that info while we're making the next MMO. We're not going to make something that'll be exactly like FFXI. We're aiming for something different from the beginning.
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> Vl: So it won't necessarily replace it, then?
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> HT: Yes, and that’s exactly it. We want [both games] to exist in the same world, to continue on, side- by-side, without one replacing the other. As long as gamers keep playing FFXI, we're going to continue making the content for it. And that has to do with the expansions as well. If gamers keep saying that they want to keep playing and that they want to keep exploring our worlds, then we'll keep providing content for them. For the time being, it'll be handled with patches, like we've been doing. As for any announcements on our next MMO, | can't say anything.
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