Demons, metaphysics, and cosmology

**Metaphysics** is a branch of
philosophy exploring the fundamental nature of reality. Topics of
metaphysical investigation include existence, objects and their
properties, space and time, cause and effect, and possibility. A
central branch of metaphysics is ontology, the investigation into the
basic categories of being and how they relate to one another.

**Cosmology** is the study of the
origin, evolution, and eventual fate of the universe. Physical
cosmology is the scholarly and scientific study of the origin,
large-scale structures and dynamics, and ultimate fate of the
universe, as well as the scientific laws that govern these realities. In strange journey they talk about cosmology directly by name.

Note that many metaphysical aspects are
already covered on their own pages, and so this page aside from its megaten tie ins will be rather minamalistic. Philosophy of mind is a
metaphysical position for example, as is the problem of universals as
it relates to plato on the plato page. And likewise there are a lot
of topics in metaphysics, most of which are not uber relevant to
megaten. Likewise, some cosmological aspects are touched on on the
physics page. So rather than to describe a wide variety of things
relative to both those topics as some other pages on this wiki do,
this page will be focused on simply describing the worlds in game, as
well as a few ideas they relate to. And so will be rather shorter
than some other pages. Prior reading to help understanding of this
page can come from the physics and philosophy of mind pages. And the
religious aspects can be read on the theism and pantheism pages.

## Ground of being

**Ground of being** is a term used to delineate the metaphysical idea of being as something that while individual things have it, that there is a kind of metaphysical property or power of being itself that all things partake in. This does not mean a literal substrate things connect to, but a sense of reality itself as a property things exist by virtue of. Although little can be said of it, because by its nature it is separate from the individual things we see that partake in being. It is related to both religious ideas such as dharmadhatu, ein sof, and brahman, as well as philosophical or scientific ideas such as absolute, noumenon, or quantum monism.

This is relevant to the games in that what the great will or axiom ultimately is is tied to this idea of ground. In a religious sense, it can be called god-above-god, being the abstract ground that is beyond any individual form a god could appear or act in (if such a thing exists). This tying heavily to mysticism, and the idea of mystical one-ness that one can experience. This idea of one-ness being something common in many religions and mysticism traditions. But it is also conflated with the more modern ideas of understanding reality as a cohesive whole, including on a monistic philosophical level. The details about it are left hazy, since it is meant to fill the role of every religious ultimate at once. But to also be vague enough to capture modern secular perspectives of the unity of the world.

This haziness allows it to be viewed as brahman, when from a hindu perspective, ein sof from an abrahamic perspective, tao from a taoist perspective, etc. While also including the quantum monism and modern philosophical views that encompass the modern world. In essence, it is hazy on purpose. And it is not really an entity, so much as reality itself, encompassing both the source of, and summation of everything.

**Monad** refers in cosmogony
(theories of the origin of the universe) to the first being,
divinity, or the totality of all beings. The concept was reportedly
conceived by the Pythagoreans and may refer variously to a single
source acting alone, or to an indivisible origin, or to both.
Although it was used by figures such as the gnostics to refer to
their god, it more often is used to refer to something abstract and
inert that is not implied to be a being per say. Or at least not
described as such in this aspect. The word does have other uses in
philosophy however, so specifying the use is important. In a
philosophical context, a monad as source of reality is generally used
to refer to something more abstract than a monotheistic god, which is
not thought of as an entity per say. Something reality arises by
virtue of, but not necessarily via an act of creation. However, this
use is not uniform.

In the context of megaten, the great
will is considered to be in a sense both the monad behind the arising of reality, and a kind of summation of reality itself. As monad it is
described as existing prior to any world, and the amala universe or
multiverse arising due to it. But all of reality in every world seems
to be considered an aspect of it via emanation. And as such, it is a
summation of reality itself. It is depicted not necessarily as an
entity per say, being the underlying truth of reality more than a
being, but in a vague sense the summation of reality aspect has a
vague relation, but unlike the other levels of relation that exist.
The humans and demons in reality are in a sense its thoughts
themselves. And since there is latent animistic essence spanning the
worlds, it is like all reality is a giant network of mind.

One thing it is referred to as in japan
is **li**, which refers to to the underlying reason and order of
nature as reflected in its organic forms. It may be translated as
"rational principle" or "law." And is a similar
term to the western concept of logos. This implies it being a kind of
**law** of existence behind reality in general, and which reality
exists by virtue of. Not even a physical law of any universe in
particular, but an overarching law that individual universes are
subsets of. Likewise, the term great will implies a kind of
collective will of reality. And the term great will comes from an
inquiry into the good, where it describes the collective thoughts
from a universal perspective. That reflecting the idea of individual
worlds as part of the system of reality and manifestations of its
potential. And so are considered part of it.

Note that while there is only one axiom, the sides each refer to it with different language relative to their own side. The term great will is used mostly in a lawful context. Note that while there is only one, there are different aspects of it that relate to how the sides see things. It is similar to the force in star wars, in that while there is only one "the force," the jedi relate to the light side, which is a part or aspect of it, and consider it the correct way to relate to it. Similarly the term great will used by lawful figures refers to the lawful aspects of the axiom. While the axiom itself is amoral, it is treated as law leaning at times due to the implications of an all encompassing system and cosmic order in comparison to the more chaotic focus of the individual. While chaos does have pantheistic elements, their focus on gaianism and your relation to the ecosystem does still have a more particularist rather than all-encompassing slant. Though chaos too does spiritually relate to the big picture.

**Monism** is the view that attributes oneness or singleness (Greek: μόνος) to a concept (e.g., existence). *Substance monism* is the philosophical view that a variety of existing things can be explained in terms of a single reality or substance. Another definition states that all existing things go back to a source that is distinct from them (e.g., in Neoplatonism everything is derived from The One). This is often termed *priority monism*, and is the view that only one thing is ontologically basic or prior to everything else. Though priority monism more often refers to the whole of reality being basic relative to individual things within it.

Megaten games do imply somewhat of a monistic slant not only within universes, treating them as a kind of system, but of the multiverse at large derived from the great will. Here, the great will or axiom is the single monistic source which the individual aspects of the multiverse, the universes, and ultimately the people within them derive. Due to so many things falling under the vague category, According to Urmson, as a result of this extended use, the term is "systematically ambiguous".

Despite referring to various classical concepts, It was later also applied to the theory of absolute identity set forth by Hegel and Schelling. Thereafter the term was more broadly used, for any theory postulating a unifying principle. According to Jonathan Schaffer, monism lost popularity due to the emergence of Analytic philosophy in the early twentieth century, which revolted against the neo-Hegelians. Carnap and Ayer, who were strong proponents of positivism, "ridiculed the whole question as incoherent mysticism". This was due to the positivist dislike of metaphysics, but questions of monism have returned due to the re-emergence of such, and of various aspects of physics, such as the fact that things can only be defined in terms of structural relation giving support to that leaning.

**Quantum monism** is a modern term
that relates to the scientific understanding of the universe not as
bottom up, but a top down monistic unity that the different aspects
are emanations of. Early scientists working on quantum mechanics like
schrodinger noted that in a quantum sense you could no longer make
sense of the universe as having individual things as building blocks,
but it had to be understood as a single unity that derives from a
single quantum reality. In the modern sense it is associated with the
philosopher jonathan schaffer. This idea applies not only to our
universe and our cosmological horizon, but would even apply to other
universes. This idea is the basis for schrodinger's appearance in
DDS1 and 2, tying to schrodinger describing the world as similar in
nature to the hindu idea of brahman.

**Cosmopsychism** refers to a modern analogue of the idea of a world soul. The modern analogue holds that since mind and matter are related rather than distinct essences, latent mental properties exist in all reality, even if not being used in sentient entities. And that there is a privileged universal relation as well. This ties to the idea of the great will as a summation of reality and its mental content. Even though the idea does not imply that it is a being in the sentient sense. Just a latent network of mind. And priority cosmopsychism in particular holds individual minds are seen as deriving their existence from the whole, rather than the other way around. Which as reality derives from the great will, and individual demons are said to arise from it via observation is a kind of aspect of the games. More information on this and panpsychism in general in the philosophy of mind page.

**The surrelative** is a short albeit obscure term for the supremely relative used often in process philosophy. Namely the summation of all that tangibly contingently exists in its relation as a distinct thing. It is contrasted with **the absolute** (which could here overlap with the concept of a primordial monad), which is what necessarily exists without question. Process philosophy deals with the relationship between these. Megaten seems to imply the surrelative as derivative of the absolute, and in a sense one whole, since it exists by virtue of it, with the great will / the axiom refering to both aspects as one thing. The surrelative being the tangible instantiation in reality. Some explanations for this are also given by figures like tillich who call the absolute the power of being, and hold that being itself exists as a manifestation of this.

## Multiverse

The megaten universe is referred to in nocturne as the amalaverse or the amala universe. It is implied to have a staggeringly huge amount of unvierses, numbering in at least the billions, though it is not clear whether it is limited or infinite. Perhaps because it is too big for any being to know. It is possible to get from one universe to another, but most beings are not implied to do so very often. Individual universes in it are each implied to have a finite life span, and when one dies it generally gives birth to a new one. But it is possible for new ones to emerge outside of this or for one to die without a new one forming.

Despite the multiverse existing in game, it seems like its different realms are considered fundamentally distinct in a sense. There aren't really universe to universe struggles going on, even if beings from one universe can travel to or invade another. This happens in a few games, with the asura showing up in SMTI being revealed to be from raidou's universe, or with the godess of tokyo seeking a messiah from another universe to come invade yours in iva's massacre ending. But note that before then in iva the yhvh and the people in world treated the world as a distinct cut off thing without reference to other universes.

One possible explanation for different universes is the concept of branes and their relation to brane cosmology. (information on the physics page). Branes being able to be n-dimensional spaces that move through a higher dimensional reality. Giving rise to spaces for different universes. IVA refers to the concept of branes in the last area, which makes this a possible explanation for the megaten concept. Though of course this may be limited to iva, with the larger multiverse operating on different rules for different pockets.

Interestingly, in some dharmic religions there are implied to be parallel worlds that may even have some versions of the same beings. In the brahma net sutra it mentions various of sakyamuni becoming enlightened in different worlds. Implying the existence of beings who are parallel versions of eachother. And so megaten having many of the same demons (sometimes even people) show up in different universes parallels this dharmic idea somewhat.

**Origin of the concept**. In Dublin in 1952, Erwin Schrödinger
 gave a lecture in which he jocularly warned his audience that what he
was about to say might "seem lunatic". He said that, when his Nobel
equations seemed to describe several different histories, these were
"not alternatives, but all really happen simultaneously". This is the
earliest known reference to the multiverse outside of fiction. Schrodinger in dds relates a bit to this idea as well, being the main characters from another universe himself in game.

**Max Tegmark's four levels.** Cosmologist Max Tegmark has provided a taxonomy of universes beyond the familiar observable universe.
 The four levels of Tegmark's classification are arranged such that
subsequent levels can be understood to encompass and expand upon
previous levels.

Level I: An extension of our Universe. That so far away we can't reach or ever even directly see it there is more space. This form is considered relatively uncontroversial.

Level II: Universes with different physical constants. That cut off from ours there is perhaps other universes with different physical laws incompatible with ours.

Level III: Many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. The idea that quantum events give rise to different universes. Contrary to how fiction depicts this, this has little to do with human decisions and wouldn't be based on different decisions people made. Though some might diverse along such lines. Some forms of a level III wouldn't imply constant splits, but perhaps only in certain instances.

Level IV: Ultimate ensemble. The ultimate mathematical universe hypothesis is Tegmark's own hypothesis. This level considers all universes to be equally real which can be described by different mathematical structures. In keeping with the idea of possible worlds below, it means that every possible world is an actual world. The modal version of this is called modal realism, and relates to the concept of possible worlds below. Though both are highly fringe ideas.

As far as megaten goes, it seems aspects of one through three are in play, though not four. Megaten universes aren't implied to split from quantum reasons all the time however, but only in rarer instances. Notably, the games are clear that it doesn't split every time that there is a choice. Only certain timelines actually exist. In IVs dlc where you travel back in time to stop masakado, steven talks about how if the missile hits your future will dissolve into possibility. The fact that timelines can be erased being a direct statement that not every one exists.

**Timeline** is a term used to differentiate different branching paths coming from a universe. In megaten, there is not implied to be branching timelines all the time, but they exist at certain times with ambiguity about when they arise.

**The** **teleological** or **physico-theological argument**, also known as the **argument from design**, or **intelligent design argument** is an argument for the existence of God or, more generally, for an intelligent creator "based on perceived evidence of deliberate design in the natural or physical world". It is an argument in natural theology. Although it is interestingly true that the level of physical constants are particular enough that they need an explanation rather than it being feasible to assume random chance, opponents of the theological explanation have pointed out that an alternate explanation is the multiverse. If there is simply so staggeringly large an amount of universes that it was a given for one to be suitable life, no coincidental anomaly would remain that needs explaining. The anthropic principle relates to this, but doesn't fully explain it, since the amount of universes that wouldn't have coherent life relative to ours is too high to explain it in reverse.

As far as megaten goes, the interesting thing seems to be that while not every universe is designed many of them either are, or have edits done to them by divine figures. So you get a mixture of natural outcomes, and a recreation that involves design.

**Possible worlds**. In philosophy
and logic, the concept of a possible world is used to express modal
claims. The concept of possible worlds is common in contemporary
philosophical discourse but is not without controversy. Those
theorists who use the concept of possible worlds consider the *actual*
world to be one of the many possible worlds. For each distinct way
the world could have been, there is said to be a distinct possible
world; the actual world is the one we in fact live in. Among such
theorists there is disagreement about the nature of possible worlds;
their precise ontological status is disputed, and especially the
difference, if any, in ontological status between the actual world
and all the other possible worlds. One position on these matters is
set forth in David Lewis's modal realism (see below). There is a
close relation between propositions and possible worlds. We note that
every proposition is either true or false at any given possible
world; then the modal status of a proposition is understood in terms
of the worlds in which it is true and worlds in which it is false.
The following are among the assertions we may now usefully make:

**True propositions** are those that are true in the actual world
 (for example: "Richard Nixon became president in 1969").

**False propositions** are those that are false in the actual
 world (for example: "Ronald Reagan became president in 1969").
 (Reagan did not run for president until 1976, and thus couldn't
 possibly have been elected.)

**Possible propositions** are those that are true in at least one
 possible world (for example: "Hubert Humphrey became president
 in 1969"). (Humphrey did run for president in 1968, and thus
 could have been elected.) This includes propositions which are
 necessarily true, in the sense below.

**Impossible propositions** (or necessarily false propositions)
 are those that are true in no possible world (for example: "Melissa
 and Toby are taller than each other at the same time").

**Necessarily true proposition**s (often simply called necessary
 propositions) are those that are true in all possible worlds (for
 example: "2+2=4"; "all bachelors are unmarried").

**Contingent propositions** are those that are true in some
 possible worlds and false in others (for example: "Richard
 Nixon became president in 1969" is contingently false and
 "Hubert Humphrey became president in 1969" is contingently
 true).

The idea of possible worlds is most commonly attributed to
Gottfried Leibniz, who spoke of possible worlds as ideas in the mind
of God and used the notion to argue that our actually created world
must be "the best of all possible worlds". Arthur
Schopenhauer argued that on the contrary our world must be the worst
of all possible worlds, because if it were only a little worse it
could not continue to exist.

**Modal realism** is the view propounded by David Kellogg Lewis that all possible worlds are as real as the actual world. It is based on the following tenets: possible worlds exist; possible worlds are not different in kind from the actual world; possible worlds are irreducible entities; the term actual in actual world is indexical,
 i.e. any subject can declare their world to be the actual one, much as
they label the place they are "here" and the time they are "now".

In megaten in SMTIV the white refer to blasted tokyo and infernal tokyo as two possible worlds. Which is interesting, since that could imply that those worlds are illusions and don't actually exist. In practice the game treats them like actual worlds though. Though doesn't explicitly say whether they are. Note that there can be more than one actual world.

## Universes

Individual universes in megaten are
depicted as capable of having different types of humanity in them.
Perhaps even subtly different physical laws, or some other distinction.
Although that big a depth of description is never gone into. Most realities to center around a physical world that can have one or more human worlds in it, though in cases like tde it shows that in some cases spiritual realms can exist without one. While human thoughts effect aspects of the demon worlds and vice versa, there may be more than one human world, and so it is possible that certain demons are not bound to a particular world, but are figures that exist across their universe. For instance, in strange journey it is hinted that the angels and mastema and lucifer may not come from earth in particular, with god being a figure who watches over the universe at large, but many figures in the game are tied to the earth itself.

In addition to having a tangible natural world,
which is what it normally centers around, universes are capable of having many
demonic realms, related to the expanse which is like the spiritual or
mental aspect of reality. These realms are being described as being created by the thoughts of man, and can be tied to various things, such as some being or even an aspect of the planet. Despite the claim that they are created by human thoughts, this does not mean that human thoughts dictate the entirety of them (and paradoxically, outside of the games there is a note from steven in a manual suggesting that paradoxically humans and gods both created eachother). Merely that it kind of exists like a flow of resource through these worlds that shapes them in ways, but which the demons themselves can also directly influence. Demon realms are not only populated by demons, but humans can also incarnate there while retaining their human identity. Though these humans will by nature have a spiritual existence.

Despite the demon world being tied to thought, they do have a somewhat tangible existence that is continuous with the physical world, with strange journey describing it as made of exotic matter, and it also being described as aether, which they say is the same thing as dark matter. And it is a repository of such. Note that in tde they destroy their human world, which shows that demonic realities can exist without one too, though it is implied to be harder since demons normally need to subsist on human thoughts as a resource, which implies difficulty in how they would produce magnetite as easily without humans. Though since demons are less tied to human thoughts when not interacting with humans, a world without humans may shift how this works slightly.

However, despite demon worlds still having a form of physical existence, a key aspect of this is the idea of data. The games stress that worlds are made of data. But similar to how in the kabbalah, the human world is more crystallized into being tangible than the spiritual worlds, the human worlds in the games are implied to be more tangible than demon worlds. The idea of data or information is equated to the spiritual, with strange journey calling the place the will of the earth resides as the information dimension. The forms demons exist in when humans see them being seen as in part a crystallization shaped by the human mind of something less tangible and more information based. This being why in strange journey before you scan demons they appear as clusters of data. To what degree this is true is ambiguous however, and not always consistent between game. Although demons as data is a recurring point also shown in SMTIV and soul hackers 2 before and during battles.

Human observation gives rise to archetypal
demon forms or realms that souls can incarnate into and then begin
shaping of their own accord. Demons live in demon realms, stated to be affected and shaped by demons, which seem
to subsist on ether / magnetite. But for demons to incarnate in the human world requires a high degree of magnetite
that in most situations it is not seen as easy for most to maintain long term.
And as such demons tend to only interact with humans indirectly most
of the time, and if they incarnate at all then usually not for very long, or in a form that needs less magnetite, such as a human form. There may also be some kind of barrier to protect the human world from
certain demons managing to exist in it. Sometimes moderated by demons
themselves, such as the four devas in desu. Many universes are presided over by a specific god that
has more power than other gods or demons, and in some sense moderates
that reality as a whole.

However, the fact that demons have a hard time staying permanently physically present indefinitely in the world does not mean that they aren't present in it. Because while there are certain demonic realms that are entirely their own places, there is also a demonic realm or "plane" that parallels the human world as seen in raidou, being the unseen demonic half on earth. Demons can live in this parallel realm from which they can watch over humans, and if they have access, then some can move between it to the human plane. Which is in keeping with actual religious lore such as in shinto or kabbalah where while spirits are obviously often present, they by nature of being spirits are not always manifest in the human world, and do not always have the power to do so. To what degree they have access to incarnate however changes over time. There can also be doorways not only between the human realm and the demonic realm on earth, but even doors into various demon realms outright, like when lucifer manifested his palace in IV.

Likewise, it is implied that it is difficult for humans to interact with demon worlds at times too. In devil survivor it implies that your human members must be left behind if you choose to wage war in the demon world, because they cannot enter. In some other games, humans can enter, however. Sometimes, like in strange journey it is only with difficulty, and with implications that you may not be able to access all its aspects. And in IV, merkabah and lucifer set up demonic realms that can only be entered with demonic help. In strange journey, and in some other games its implied that humans cannot even properly see demons without some kind of help, either supernatural or via some kind of tech. With stronger ones often being even harder to see, such as in IV with ancient of days. While demon realms may have slightly higher or confusing dimensionality relative to earth, it is not high enough so as to totally prevent humans from being able to comprehend or maneuver it.

While normal humans do not have magic power that they can directly use, humans do have the potential to obtain magic power. This is usually done through contact with spiritual realms and beings, which can activate their capacity for it. Though this capacity is seen as something that to some degree is already an immanent aspect of their nature. In majin tensei ii the inherent capacity to use magic is referred to as newill. And it is said that while all humans have it, in most their natural capacity is very weak, and in general it is not able to simply be easily activated. For those who can't access it personally, they can use magic using a comp, but will find themself unable to if their comp is lost. Though what they can do with the comp is influenced by their own spiritual power.

Note how in some games the protagonists never learn magic personally that they are capable of simply using on their own, and all the magic is used simply via tech. So even contact with demons or demonic realms is not necessarily enough to activate it for individuals without the use of tech, where in some games they can only use magic if directly using it via tech. Different worlds are in different states, and so what the rules are for its activation can change slightly. This ties to the fact that the games imply that using magic or demon summoning is extremely difficult, which is why the demon apocalypse tends to only happen once the demon summoning program makes it something anyone can do.

Note an important part here is that while a given world system may have both human and demonic realms, these may overlap more or less in various worlds. In various games they talk about the human and demon worlds getting closer together, or in some cases even merging. If they were to merge this would of course make certain properties of the worlds overlap more, such as demons now living directly on the same world the humans do. In devil survivor it is mentioned how more demons appearing in the human world inherently moves them closer together, making it easier for more to follow. In the human world where there is less aether, it is harder for demons to physically remain there for long, but as the realms become closer together it is easier.

In the tabletop games this overlapping of worlds is called gate level. And it effects not just the ease of summoning, but also the ability of stronger demons to manifest. What's more, the gate level is not necessarily the same everywhere. Certain places amd buildings may have a higher gate level, such as a haunted house. This also corresponds to classical religious ideas of things like holy or cursed places which are more connected to the spirit world.

Note that demon realms, and by nature demons too are implied to be in essence a higher order of existence slightly than humans (implied to also be higher dimensionality in a sense, with sanat kumara calling you a creature of lower dimensions). While low level demons may not even be stronger than the average human, when they interact even a weak demon that has a foothold on earth can often do a lot of damage to a regular human. This is because their higher order nature seems to have an easy time cutting through normal physical humans. Things like the harmonizer in devil survivor effect this, harmonizing the wavelength of demons and humans closer together which gives people the ability to fight back. A large facet of the power imbalance between humans and demons coming from the fact that this higher order nature can make even weak ones seem almost invincible at times. Though notably, even humans without tech still have the power to do exorcisms, and often demons have little direct ability to interact with the world, and so this full power is not able to be used regardless.

The relationship between human and demon realms goes from concrete to more abstract. Taking names from the kabbalah, the human realm is called sometimes Asiyah and the expanse atziluth. (note how in the kabbalah, asiyah has this dual aspect of the human and spiritual realms on earth in addition to other spiritual realms, similar to how is seen in-game). Implying that at their most abstract, the archetypes observed into existence have no self awareness or independent existence. Which is what is meant by "returning to the axiom" on death until one's essence is recycled. One returns to being an abstract potential until returning as part of a new being. In strange journey they refer to this potential as "seeds" saying that they slept as seeds and referring to the deaths of humans as returning to being a mere seed. And in persona 2 they call the resting place of this information the sea of souls.

The human and demon worlds are heavily intertwined, with actions in one affecting the other. In majin tensei ii you are told that the three worlds are are a trinity. They are like light, shadow, and the tangible objects between them. This is why human thoughts shape the form of demons, but in return demons shape human thoughts. Note however, that this does not necessarily mean that there are only two discrete demon realms. In many games it is more like there is a polarity of realms, and many distinct realms exist between them.

One important emphasis given to how
universes or realities are seen is relating it to a system. Demons
sometimes describe individuals as in a sense states of a system.
Particularly merkabah, who refers to changing you to a form more
suitable. From a physical aspect this makes sense of course, since in
the end people are composed of the essence of reality that can be
remade. And this is what gives a sense of continuity, and
justification for reincarnation in a sense. Likewise, there is a
heavy element of seeing people as products of an environment or
system in this way, doubly so since gods are depicted as in some sense a kind of
social organism.

Since different designs for worlds give rise to different
types of people, and there are seen as certain types of individual
more common in certain worlds than others. And the people of a world
are seen as interrelated with the world system itself. The creation
of the world is even depicted as similar to a person in nocturne
where magatushi looks like sperm cells, and kagatsuchi where you
bring them an egg. This makes sense physically, since physically the
universe is seen as a system that the interactions make sense in
terms of the internal structural relations of.

Although observation / cognition is
most often referenced in terms of giving rise to spiritual
archetypes, in persona 5 they also say that there's strictly speaking no such thing as the "real" world. what people see and feel is reality. And this is what
gives the world infinite potential. The whole world is a product of
cognition. And so it can be remade, just like individuals. Although in
terms of metaphor this mainly refers to constructs and paradigms used
to make sense of reality, and the phenomenological concept of the life-world in game it also has a more tangible context
implying ability to change aspects of the world itself. This being
related to how the world is remade, and how different structures it
takes on can give rise to different realities. Since demons are spirits this has to do with the fact that different arrangements of different thought in essence are restructuring the mental nature of reality.

Note something important about universes. And that's that there's no single version of afterlives. People's souls undergo reincarnation. But while they can be born as demons, or even humans in a demonic realm, that's not necessarily the same as what religions normally consider permanent afterlives, but simply different births. With whether its considered a post life goal being a construct. (though note that in eastern religions, conflating afterlives with reincarnation as gods or demons is more standard) Likewise, sometimes afterlives are conflated with new worlds altogether. Like the hindu afterlife with the world krishna wants to make in iva.

But in the end all this is is that a god can construct a situation in a new world, or a demon realm of a world and advertise it as a place people would want to go, bringing souls there and moderating what happens there. But they are all necessarily constructs that aren't any more or less primary than your previous life in earth. Even in game the analogue of paranirvana where you destroy your soul to release its essence into the world is only a goal if you want this. Note that in any place any god or demon has power over, and uses their power to effect its nature, if they are killed this can change how that place functions, whether this is a human world or a demon realm. Note in SMTII how they mention how both the real and fake yhvhs seem to do something with sorting human souls that effects who is born where.

**Aether.** According to ancient greek and medieval philosophy and science, aether, also spelled æther or ether, also called quintessence, is the material that fills the region of the universe above the terrestrial sphere.
 The concept of aether was used in several theories to explain several
natural phenomena, such as the traveling of light and gravity. In the
late 19th century, physicists postulated that aether permeated all
throughout space, providing a medium through which light could travel in
 a vacuum, but evidence for the presence of such a medium was not found in the Michelson–Morley experiment, and this result has been interpreted as meaning that no such luminiferous aether exists

In megaten, aether is also referred to as magnetite, and dark matter, and is the essence that demons are composed of. Although in DDS2 they say it exists in a small amount in all things, it seems to emanate primarily from humans, and its original nature is invisible and colorless, though it can solidify into tangible forms. It is referred to as the essence of human desires. The demon world as a whole is said to relate to the thoughts of man, and to be heavily filled with aether. So a potential reason why it is difficult for demons to maintain form in the human world is likely that the demon world as a whole is like a pool of aether. It is easy to be sustained when in there, but more difficult to get enough of it when outside.

The reason it was called magnetite initially is because it was stated to relate to magnetic fields. In the second megami tensei novel, the Demon Summoning Program was established to project a magnetic field to summon the
demon from the computer into the real world. In order to keep the field
up and large enough to sustain them, they need magnetite. Though the games shifted it from a hazy resource to an all encompassing thing. Magnetite is found in humans more than in the natural world, but humans who are reincarnations of gods have even more than usual, since gods of large power need a large amount to sustain it. Since demon bodies are composed of this essence they can also steal it from other demons. This also means that demonic worlds operate on continuous principles of physics to our normal world, albeit in an alien way. Something also touched on in strange journey.

Stronger demons also tend to need more magnetite, which also means they are harder to summon into the human world. This being something that the plot of the second novel also established. However, they can be summoned in a makeshift body which does not contain all of their full power. This is why situations can be seen such as in SMTIV, where lucifer appears as the weaker body of the schoolgirl hikaru, and has free reign to move around in the human world, yet is not considered fully resurrected, needing more work to restore his full body and power to the human world. This also explains in some ways how demon power works in general. Human thoughts become a "flow" of magnetite into the abyss. But the magnetite itself is like a resource. Human thoughts can empower certain types of gods more than others, but the gods can also war among themselves, or deal with the resource in various ways to get more of it. And the actions that happen among them can effect life on earth as well through the human subconscious.

In strange journey jiminez says that humans and demons are like mirror images of eachother, and that neither can exist without the other in the world, and demons are an inseparable part of humanity. Lucifer likewise says that as long as humans exist beings such as myself, god, and the white will never truly disappear. So the existence of demons is described as tied to that of humans. Despite this, some demons are shown to be able to exist without humans for awhile. Or like noah to subsist outside of reality. How exactly this works is left ambiguous, though since magnetite can be gotten from other places it is possible that they can subsist for some time without getting it from humans directly.

Though their existence is intertwined through observation and the cycle of transmigration it is not made clear how much these rules can be bent. In tde they destroy the human world entirely. Though it is possible that humans still exist in the form of ghosts. Tde is an analogue of nirvana in ending the rebirth of the world, and nirvana is meant to be indescribable, so in a way tde is meant to be difficult to make sense of for those within reality. Likewise, in dsjs bad chaos ending the demons let humans die out but are implied to still be able to survive in some sense.

**Ontology** deals with the determination whether *categories of being* are fundamental and discusses in what sense the items in those categories may be said to "be." Most ontologies question or assert the existence of categories such as
objects, properties, space and time. Immediate questions arising from
this include the nature of objects. Only properties can be observed
directly, so what does it mean for an object to exist and to possess
them if we can never observe an object directly? How can we be sure that
 such objects exist at all? While this may not seem immediately relevant, it obviously becomes relevant to individuals in questions of philosophy of mind and identity and under what conditions you continue to exist.

Other controversial categories of objects and properties which may be argued to exist or not include aesthetic and moral properties, and social constructs
 such as money and ownership. Stances about the status of such things
may form the foundation for other branches of philosophy such as aesthetics, ethics and political philosophy. Some questions of ontology are whether certain things that exist or how they work are inherently true, or merely limited to certain possible universes. When steven talks about surpassing the axiom this may be something he is hinting at, asking whether certain things that seem ubiquitous to all universes are actually local by laws that one can in theory not have.

The ontology of megaten universes focuses heavily on how everything in them is made of information. Questions of various types of ontology show up on other wiki pages here such as the physics and philosophy of physics page and the philosophy of mind pages which detail those respective aspects.

**Ontological relativism**. Ontology deals with the concept of what exists in the world; what things exist, what have metaphysical priority over others, and related things. Ontological relativism however states that what exists is to some degree subjective. That some metaphysical questions don't have absolute answers, but rather only constructed ones based on the paradigm you are using. This position is heavily influenced by understandings of modern science and the philosophers of science as well as the philosophy of kant and the idea that the world you see is not the world as it is in itself but to some degree is "created" by your mind. For instance, your senses being things that are not telling you true facts about the world, but rather codes your brain invented to maneuver it. And your tendency to subjectively divide things into simple categories to understand them, like tree, house, etc.

Ontological relativism is related to the above concept of the life-world, detailing how the "world" as it appears to you is shaped by your perception of it, and so different people in a sense literally exist in different "worlds." This often ties to the idea of universalism in that an unlimited amount of ways to divide it up exist. Different relativists may disagree about how many metaphysical issues fall under the purview of relativism however. It is not necessary to view it as applying to everything.

This is related to megaten of course in that it ties to the statement that the world is your world of perception, and there is no one true world. Megaten is heavily about different paradigms and their meaning to humanity, even up to spiritual or metaphysical realities about the world changing based on this. Since even what spiritual realities and gods exist is shaped by perception there is a degree of ontological relativism to its system. The concept can also tie to spiritual paradigms in general, since it can highlight how from different perspectives there is either just the one reality, or the plurality of things in existence.

**Digital / informational physics**
refers to interpreting physics in a sense where the basic structures
of reality are describable as information more than anything else, and is an important aspect of megaten ontology.
Which despite the seeming oddity is actually the mainstream
interpretation. Megaten references this in at least two games, being
dds2 and record breaker where the world is described as being made of
data. Which implies that it is a staple not just of those universes,
but of every universe as a whole. Since the worlds are made of
information, it gives some context for how they can be created, with
specific gods getting a seat of power in a kind of moderator position
that allows them to give rise to a new system. More information about
the physics of this on the physics page. The games also imply that like with computers its possible for corrupt data to disrupt the functioning of things. Though the ecosystem in its self regulating nature is seen as protecting against corrupted data.

Note that when you combine this with panpsychism you can also get **integrated information theory**, and its related theories which holds that mind is something akin to information processing, explaining its relation to physical existence. More information about this in the philosophy of mind page. Integrated information theory is given credence in DDS2 as well, where fred points out that data is not only what the world is composed of, but is like people's thoughts as well.

**Ordinary objects** and **extraordinary objects**. Ordinary objects refer to objects we consider to be normal objects day to day. Extraordinary objects are hypothetical different sorting methods. For instance, what makes the existence of a chair any more real than the existence of a cat-rooster that is the object composed of a rooster and cat that are next to eachother. The question of ordinary objects asks whether any particualr arrangement is any "more real" than any other, and whether the cat by itself has a tangible reality in the sense that the cat-rooster does not.

The important thing to note is that things being visually spacially discontinuous does not matter, because ultimately everything is discontinuous on the micro scale. So the quesiton is whether other important aspects give higher reality to certain things than others. **Conservatism** is the position that only ordinary objects exist, **eliminativism** is the idea that no objects exist, and **permissivism** is the position that other non ordinary objects have equal reality to ordinary objects. Most specifically manifested in **universalism**, which is the position that every possible combination is a distinct object. One argument against conservatism is the oddity of the assumption that that our first assumptions about what exist either happen to be correct or that evolution made us capable of discerning these metaphysicsl truths by mere intuition.

Megaten obviously seems to take a permissivist perspective. One important aspect of how it defined observation / cognition is it pointing out that differing paradigms all have reality, it is just about what one places emphasis on. Since differing perspectives via observation give rise to different demons, it implies that any different arrangement is capable of counting provided one gives attention to it and integrates it into a useful paradigm. In game this of course gives another layer of tangible reality to this as it can generate a tangible demon.

**Philosophy of space and time** is
the branch of philosophy concerned with the issues surrounding the
ontology, epistemology, and character of space and time. While such
ideas have been central to philosophy from its inception, the
philosophy of space and time was both an inspiration for and a
central aspect of early analytic philosophy.

Some questions involved
are **presentism**, the idea that time flows vs **eternalism**
the idea that there is no particular present in particular. A third
rarer position is the **growing block** theory, which says that
the present and past exist but not future. Other issues are whether
space and time have objective locations and distance **Absolutism**, versus merely being a relational matrix between objects (**Relationalism**) and whether
causality exists in the way we normally think of it, or is an
emergent structure. Due to certain aspects of physical process being identical either direction in time, the concept of causality as normally understood as a basic feature of reality has been called into question. Some questions also deal with additional dimensions of time. **Imaginary time** is a concept popularized by steven hawking as a second time dimension derived from special relativity and quantum mechanics and is mathematically convenient in connecting quantum mechanics with statistical mechanics.

In megaten universes are depicted as
having their own internal flow of time. Lucifer points out that when
the universe ends so does its time. In what way entities can relate
to eachother outside of it, or whether there is a kind of meta time
in the multiverse is unknown. But time dimensions are depicted as
internal to the universe. Time travel is also depicted as possible,
although it is depicted as rather rare.

**Time travel** is a thing that is implied to be possible in the games, though it is seen as a rather uncommon event, and likely to cause paradoxes. Majin tensei ii refers to people who come from another time as "intruders," and implies that the existence of intruders can be dangerous because it messes with the timestream as a whole. Karen is someone who comes from the future in that game whose specific job is to protect the timestream in order to avoid paradoxes.

**Thin places** refers to an idea in some religious beliefs, stemming from the old celts of certain areas in which the human world and spiritual world are closer together. Megaten does imply that those things can shift. For instance, in devil survivor it talks about the demon world coming closer to the human world at the ending. And so these realms not only have parts that overlap more at some places than others, but these overlaps are not even set in stone, but can change based on events that happen within the worlds. And different figures obviously have ideological reasons for wanting the relations to be balanced in different ways, with chaos obviously wanting the demon world and human world closer together to allow an easier time for demons to live on or visit the surface.

**Mythic time** refers to the fact that many myths that happen in religions were things that weren't quite seen as taking place necessarily in linear time, but in a kind of special abstract time of their own. When asking questions like when did hod kill Baldr, oftentimes these events were not seen as taking place at a time that cleanly connects to our own flow of time, but in an ambiguous time that makes them in essence timeless. This is especially the case when detailing events that were seen as cyclical in nature, with rituals done in the present seen as partaking in the mythical time.

This ties to the fact that to many ancient cultures time was not seen as linear in the way we understand it now, but a reflection of a cyclical pattern. One major thing that delineated judaism from many of the cultures surrounding it was that yahweh talking to moses was seen as something that happened in literal time in the very recent past, rather than in an abstract ancient mythical time unconnected to ordinary circumstances.

Note that in many cultures the concept of mythical time was not an explicit concept used by them, but just a vague highlighting of the transcendent nature of the gods, and them existing separate from everyday ordinary conceptions of being. The depiction of myths as taking place in a kind of timeless realm was not always self consciously a thing that people held as an explicit doctrine, but was a form of way that myths were written to make them seem eternal in relevancy, and to tie to the fact that humans can tap into this mythical time via rituals. While many cultures used mythical time when writing myths not all of them explicitly viewed gods as literally existing in their own realm of time.

Megaten explicitly highlights mythic time in the games. Many of the gods talk about things they have done, or their myth as literal events, but many of these events are depicted as taking place at an ambiguous time that is depicted as separate from ordinary time. This is explicitly stated to be separate from linear time in that the expanse is described as a place where past and future blur together. With what happens in the human world being in some sense an emanation of these timeless properties. Often one that has a semi cyclical element to it in that you are warned that even defeating enemies doesn't end the potential for either them or someone like them to return in their place.

**Creationism** is the religious
belief that the universe and life originated "from specific acts
of divine creation," as opposed to the scientific conclusion
that they came about through natural processes. The first use of the
term "creationist" to describe a proponent of creationism
is found in an 1856 letter of Charles Darwin describing those who
objected on religious grounds to the emerging science of evolution.
Although many use the word creationism as a synonym for young earth
creationism, in its wider sense it refers to a universe being
deliberately created in general.

An interesting aspect of megaten is
that it implies both natural emergence of universes, and evolution of
humanity, as well as deliberate creation. With ambiguity being
presented between how these things link up. Most universes that we
see seem to in some sense be deliberately created by a god. Though
this may be an overlay that still gives reference to an evolutionary
past. This creationism is also used as a metaphor for creation of different social paradigms and situations. Giving rise to different baseline human mentalities. Steven also is used to represent steven hawking who they note in an interview points out that he does not think a god created the universe.

## Identity and reincarnation

An important facet of the megaten
universe is demons and humans and the relation between them. (More info on the philosophy of mind page.) Obviously reincarnation exists in the megaten world. It is an aspect
of many games, and in nocturne they even talk about how karma exists
and effects future births, with interviews expanding on this.

The context given in interviews gives this in a buddhist sounding light, although there are aspects which do not match it. In buddhism you can be born not just as a human,
but as various other beings, depending on your karma. In megaten, it is important to note
that humans and demons are continuous. Souls don't seem to inherently be either
human or demon souls in particular. The same soul can incarnate as
one or the other. Humans can become demons, and likewise it is also
possible for something previously a demon to be born as a human.

For
instance, in II, zayin is incarnated from part of the soul of satan. And in Is visionary items they say that en no ozuno's human form was an unknowing incarnation of a bodhissatva. This is why in strange journey demons call themselves "your fellow bearers of karma." To show that both demons and humans exist in the cycle. They also call themelves the fathers, sons, friends of humanity, implying a close relation.

This relates to the buddhist circle of transmigration, something they describe by name in an interview. Humans and demons are connected through this cycle, with them saying how for this reason one can not easily exist without the other as they are like opposite sides of a mirror, with changes in one realm being reflected with changes in the other. Gods and humans are intertwined through the cycle of karma. What forms a soul can incarnate as is heavily shaped through human thoughts, since humans effect the spiritual / more mental planes of reality.

The expanse and the various demonic worlds are described as being created by human thoughts, (Though gods themselves can shape the particular spaces within them) and lucifer pointing out that as long as humans exist beings like him will as well. This happens through the lens of observation from humanity, which is named after quantum observation, based on the idea of solidifying possibility into a single state. Despite this symbiotic connection, it is implied that one could theoretically exist for a time without the other, but that it would be difficult, since they are missing an important aspect.

Since the spiritual planes are upheld through human observation, if the humans were to disappear it would be difficult for the gods to survive, so if humanity died out entirely, the gods will generally seek to make sure a replacement analogue arises to perpetuate the cycle. And if the gods died, new ones would arise from observation. Humans require the essence of the gods as well since they are symbiotically connected with the structures of the human mind, being in essence their archetypes, with jiminez saying they are an inseparable part of humanity.

How much these rules can be bent is left ambiguous. Tde destroys the human world entirely. With it left ambiguous what that means for the cycle, with them specifically describing now existing outside of it in a sense. Which is an analogue of it being indescribable to those still within similar to the idea of nirvana. Since tde is in part a nirvana analogue due to ending the rebirth of the world. And in dsj, in the bad chaos ending humans are implied to die out, but demons still survive without them. Which seems to clash with smtii where lucifer says demons can't survive without humans. Note that while humans on earth may die out, this does not necessarily mean that humans in the demon realm did as well, who can potentially still be sources of magnetite.

However, what is different from
buddhism is that what one can incarnate as is shaped mainly by
“observation.” Human created archetypes heavily shape what forms a soul
is capable of incarnating as, rather than there being certain set
things. Humans can observe the form of something, such as a moh
shuvuu, and then this becomes an archetype souls are capable of
incarnating into a tangible form of when they reincarnate, or shift
forms. Note that not all forms need to be directly imagined by humans. Some can be based more loosely on ideas or thoughts, with those demons feeding off of thoughts / aether without humans being directly aware.

Human thoughts are like flows of magnetite into demon worlds, but the actions of demons themselves, and various events can alter the flow, and new forms can be created. And as said in iva, if they do not reveal themselves to humans, then their appearance and nature are not as effected by human descriptions. A major facet of iva is that yhvh places himself in a position where he has major control over the flow of magnetite, preventing new types of gods from being born, and trying to forcibly make everything fall into his binary setup. But lacks enough power to do so fully.

Demons are of course not always born directly from other demons, but some generate directly when a soul forms into a being in a demonic realm. In SMTII in the abyss they say that in binah there is the sea of harvest where demons are born. Not all demons follow the same properties entirely, due to different types of thoughts being the resource that sustains them. Some are more or less intelligent, or not sentient at all, or act more or less like humans.

As such, demons that ostensibly present themselves as human ghosts
are likely real ghosts of humans. Because a human soul can go from
that to the demon form. Some demons still identify as human or as a human spirit, rather than a distinct thing. The white for example. Implying some retaining of human identity even as a demon. Although it seems that how reincarnation works implies that some humans and demons are more likely to just reincarnate as something similar to themself rather than going back and forth, depending on how their identity is focused.

Note also how even in demonic realms, humans who incarnate there as part of an afterlife often retain the human identity despite having a demonic or spiritual body. Some demons even seemingly retain some memories from past incarnations, and so function somewhat like a series person. This is due to how observation works. Major demons who have a name for themselves on earth, even if they die, if human thoughts still remember them it can lead to the rebirth of a new version of them, or at least a close analogue. Sometimes the new version is not entirely the same entity however.

Morax calls humans progenitors, and you are told that demons are intimately tied to human emotion. And you are told that the encroachment of the schwarzelt began when "the dark thoughts of humanity flowed to this land giving us shape, giving us power" but even though humans are the largest source of magnetite, magnetite is said to exist in all things. So while human thoughts heavily form the shapes of demons, they are not the entirety of a demon's identity. Magnetite exists in everything, even though human thoughts effect the paths through it to a huge degree. But demons can also take magnetite directly, by eating humans or other demons. Some demons had their forms shaped or twisted even by other demons, like when yhvh demonizes other demons. Note that observation is not just one direction. What humans see gods doing is also what gods choose for humans to see to some degree.

When a human such as steven transcends their humanity, they can retain their human form as a partially posthuman entity. Post humans (if not also called a god) are referred to by the race name "meta" in english, which is short for meta-human, and chojin in japan. Or they can leave behind their humanity entirely. Note that for a human to become a demon is still seen as somewhat different than a demon born as a demon, since those are born already in that form, often lacking natural aging, and alien to humans, whereas a human who later becomes one still aged naturally, having a natural human progression to the mentality they exist in now, even if they follow by becoming an immortal who does not age. Whereas a demon is born generally already in that form and so has never experienced age, or the path through development it implies. Some humans both maintain their human form as well as obtain another. With varying degrees about how human they remain.

There are also some beings halfway
between demon and human who may share some properties of both. Hallelujah in iva, having semyaza as a parent is implied to be a nephilim. which is a term for half angel / demons, though the term does not show up in game. Likewise, humans who take demons into them, uniting with them are implied to not quite be demons, but to be a different type of in between being.

Note that the karma created by actions in one's life effects other lives even aside from just the form of human or demon. This has to do with the buddhist idea of the mindstream which preserves different properties which tend to manifest to some degree in future lives even if not immediately. I.E. the buddha incarnated into his last life before enlightenment, knowing that the properties of his wisdom would inevitably arise, even though once born he lived as a prince in ignorance for a long time. This mindstream then preserves an aspect of these properties across lives even if the immediate life does not automatically have them, just a higher inclination to get them. In megaten games, it shows that something like this happens as well. The reason that flynn and nanashi are so strong in IV is because of things from their previous lives that manifest in their current one. At the same time though, however, your identity is not seen to necesarily be 1:1 with your past life. In some sense you are a new being, even if in another you are the same.

Note however that human observation is not the sole thing directly shaping demon forms. Since while human thoughts create a flow that heavily shape what is likely to exist, this flow of magnetite is like a resource that demons can still bend to some degree. For instance, belberith made its own form from fusing some other demons into itself. Implying some leniency within this. Game mechanics aside, the archetypal forms are like springboards that the demons themselves can try to expand on. Though expansion seems to be by far easiest through complying more closely with the flow of observation, especially direct. Which is why many demons come to earth to try to shift the flow in observation into forms beneficial to them.

Since being seen by humans effects how observation effects you, many strong demons avoid coming to earth entirely so as to be able to subsist on it in ways that avoid the problems that come with certain limitations. Note that the observation doesn't necessarily need to be aimed at the demon directly for them to benefit from it. Stronger demons often seem to have a variety of human forms they can take as well, often being able to blend in with humanity. (And even weaker ones like fairies can often appear in human forms, like in iva with napaea). Demons also are seen as having a less tangible more spiritual - data aspect, as seen by how they look like clusters of data at times in many games before you see them as a tangible form.

The nature of humans itself is also
able to be changed. Different worlds have different humanities, and
the creator god of those worlds is generally capable of making
humanity with different types of properties. In any given world
though, humans are necessary for observation, and so humans as a
central element to provide resources for demons are normally necessary. Demon archetpes need aether /
magnetite to maintain them, and this is emanated from humans. So it
is important for humans to be at the center of this cycle. It is
possible for demons to survive for some time without direct
observation from humans, but it is presented as difficult. Note, in tde in nocturne they destroy their human world entirely, but its not made clear how the demons survive without it here, or what makes it not necessary.

Some demons like krishna have multiple names, and manifest as different beings. With it mentioned in the interview how he was known as kokuten in japan. Showing that at times the archetypes are forms a single god takes on rather than distinct beings. And demons who never reveal themselves to humans are implied to have more leniency in form. Note also that they can go by different names in these forms as well, such as ciphers. Since they can make up names for themself, different demons of the same archetype presumably have personal names also in addition to their demon form name. Seraph being called the nameless angel specifically distinguishes it. This shows how different archetypes can mean different things. They can be different beings, or in some cases forms or appearances of one being. Like in raidou 2 where lucifer says that to the bug people he appeared as beelzebub. Because that is how they interpret their demonic figure.

Identity is an important facet of this.
Since any given entity is seen as having identity in two ways. First
from the form they take, and second from the essence or
soul composing them. Souls themselves often shift identity slightly.
Entities can merge or split, and between reincarnations are often
considered to be a slightly different new being than you were before,
perhaps gaining or losing some animistic essence. With you having the
ability to either identify with or deny your past lives, with this
choice itself reflecting identity. In DDS2 they say that when people die their data returns to god - since we are born of god it is no surprise that their data dwells in us. But serph rejects the past self that his identity is related to.

Note that some demons have multiple forms they can switch between in general, considering both of these just their standard forms. (though even so, their personality may change slightly between forms, such as humanoid lucifer and demon lucifer in iv). Note also that different demon forms can be forms taken as much as more core identities. Like above, In raidou 2 where lucifer mentions how the bug people saw him as beelzebub. So in that case it was a form or appearance. How it works is not always set in stone.

Souls can also be created or
destroyed at times. It seems that observation sometimes directly creates
demons out of the background latent animistic essence of the world.
Ones who were never human, and may never be human in their
incarnations. Likewise, destroying a soul doesn't erase the content, but returns it all at once back to the animistic essence of the world. Some entities even seek to do this to themselves on purpose, seeing this as similar to the buddhist concept of paranirvana. When returning to the essence of the world itself, some still maintain a partial identity, such as mem aleph merging with the world. This has to do with concepts of identity like bundle theory which you can read about more on the identity page.

This ties back to the fact that all things are made of data. While the physical world is more crystallized into a tangible form, the soul is like more abstract data. With dds2 it shows the more intangible form of the characters, calling it solar data, and if even the ghosts are broken apart, the more abstract data is seen being recycled. Saying that the solar data was being recycled by god to repeat metempsychosis.

Note also that different versions of the same being (especially demons) can exist in alternate worlds, or sometimes even the same world. Which is something that shows up in dharmic religions too, with the brahma net sutra talking about how various of sakyamuni buddha awake in countless worlds, who are incarnations of virochana. But these different ones have different identity, despite also being somewhat the same. This ties into the ambiguity of identity in general, and how different of the same being, despite being the same being in a sense are also distinct. How this works in game being left ambiguous. With the identity of some beings at time blurring together.

Although dagda talks about gods being
shaped by observation as if it was limiting, this doesn't mean that demons don't have free will. Demons
are seen changing their opinions on things, such
as Gozu-Tennoh,
and different demons from the same archetype can have different
personalities, so observation doesn't directly force them to do
actions (and the implication of mitama fusion is likewise a
personality shift). Fallen angels were real angels who rejected being angels and were cast down. Or at least real spirits who were perceived as angels by humans. But the causality of how it happened relative to the human timeline can be hazy.

In persona 5 they talk about the distinction
between gods guiding or forcing you to their ideals, implying
personal agency to them also. And in devil survivor overclocked, you are shown that gagyson a chaos demon is capable of learning to act orderly. Because while the flow of observation can shift what gods are born, this is not that different from social influence, and their actions are still their own. Which is why it is mainly only dagda who rejects social influence who likewise rejects his identity that is shaped by it.

Likewise, though it is not seen due to
game mechanics, demons of the same archetype are not necessarily
indistinguishable either, because demons are shown to be capable of
wearing different clothes, distinguishing particular ones of
eachother, and even going by different monickers than just their
general demon name. Such as metatron in desu who still responds to
the name enoch despite being a full demon. They are even shown having a range of ideology they can accept, so its not true either that the same types of demons always follow the same ideology. Which is why in SMTI law demons will go with you on neutral, but not on chaos. Note that this leaning is not a limit either, since in devil survivor it shows that even chaos demons can be taught order, while maintaining a chaotic form, though this is depicted as uncommon.

Nocturne talks about how demon souls never change whereas human ones do from age, but this doesn't mean that demons can never change their mind, but simply that they do not naturally age (or usually don't at least), and so the different paths of growth someone can take from aging does not apply to them. They seem to incarnate in a specific form that can be static, and while their personality and mind can change its not an unfolding change in the way one born from totally different life paths and aging into different situations might be. But rather, more like personality changes that can happen during one age.

The demon analogue to aging is changing form (though note that this itself can involve a change in age-appearance). Its simply pointing out that unlike humans who are always changing, a demon who is immortal and doesn't preserves certain aspects of their current form until / unless the form changes. Note that the idea that humans have a bit more ability to grow and change the growth of their nature also is tied to the buddhist idea that humans have the easiest time reaching enlightenment. Naoya mentions how angels are orderly and demons are chaotic, but humans are flexible, but in the negative sense this can manifest as vagueness.

It would also be misleading to
ascribe demons only a kind of secondary non-full existence relative to
humans, since in many of the plots it seems like from their
perspective its almost the other way around. Demons consider
themselves the main entities who represent the larger forces of reality, with humans a small group of surface dwellers who are only really needed to maintain the archetypes and produce aether as a core aspect their reality revolves around. With devil survivor implying that the stronger demon lords often don't even want to bother with humanity, seeing it as out of their way, and not a concern of theirs as long as the magnetite from them keeps flowing. This implying that stronger ones can maintain their strength in demon worlds even without much direct belief giving them power over the human world. So a demon society would still have distinction between entities in a similar way to a human society.

In the added scenes for SMTII, you see lucifer reflecting on how even though demons are the major players in reality, humanity is more like its core. So both are important in different ways even though from a human perspective demons seem to metaphorically represent human thoughts. Note that the less interaction a demon has with humanity, the less it is shaped by human thought directly. So many demon lords who never visited human realms at all may not be anything directly described in religion.

There would also be differences though, of course, since how demons work is meant to be a little mysterious, and how identity works for them is likewise meant to be a little ambiguous. Note that even if an entity exists in some sense based on a shape that represents an idea to humans, from its own perspective it has its own life with aspects other than this. The fact that it fulfills this role to humans doesn't necessarily mean that it thinks of itself only in term of its relations to humans and not its own personal lives, even if that's a basis of how the archetypes get form. I.E. in devil survivor, the battle between angels and demons obviously has relevance to their own lives regardless of human thoughts. The game even noting that this struggle in its other world it takes place in has little to do with humans. And some demons are implied to not be something humans directly interact with at all. Obviously the changes in demonic realms would still have effects that pour over into the human world.

This also ties to how demons are seen as symbiotically connected with aspects of reality. Dagda complaining that initially they were the pure power of reality, forced into limited forms. With demons even when in these forms often still being able to sense this connection they have to aspects of the world to a degree. Although this may be in a more limited form, with some seeking a form of moksha or return to the state of pure abstraction. But since this return in some forms may mean losing your individual form and life, most demons don't seek to lose this reality.

Another thing distinguishing demons is that it seems that demons need only a little ether / magnetite to
survive when in the expanse, due to it being a pool of such, but it
is much harder for them to manifest and maintain form in the human
world. For this reason, it seems in most worlds demons are fine
remaining relatively separate most of the time, only influencing the
human world indirectly. In certain situations, some endings result in
demons moving to earth to live on the surface directly though. Although many may still stay on the demon plane of earth oftentimes, so as to conserve magnetite.

The
demon world isn't necessarily one single thing either. For any given
human world there may be a large number of distinct demon realms,
perhaps containing many more demons than there are humans. And based on the type of world some demons even have more or less power based on location. And humans
can likely reincarnate in various of these after death depending on
their karma. Despite not necessarily always wanting to live on the
surface however, many demons do seek to change the human world in
according to various visions, or even wage war on other demonic
realms. Naoya also mentions how the stronger a demon is generally the less interested they are in visiting the human world directly. This may be because it takes more magnetite for them to appear on earth maintaining their form, and so might lose their power in their earthly incarnation.

Although different universes exist, it
seems like reincarnation almost always takes place within the same
universe, and its cluster of human and demon realms. And that souls are bound to a specific universe. Mitra
buddha in iva mentions cutting the ties between the souls in the egg
and the universe they were from, preventing their resurrection since
souls don't return to a universe they are not bound to. When entities
die they often refer to it as returning to the great will. And
reincarnation is described as happening through this in a sense. However, it is possible to travel from one universe to another, and for some entities it is easier or harder than for others.

**Identity** is a fundamental
metaphysical issue. Metaphysicians investigating identity are tasked
with the question of what, exactly, it means for something to be
identical to itself. Other issues of identity arise in the context of
time: what does it mean for something to be itself across two moments
in time? How do we account for this? Another question of identity
arises when we ask what our criteria ought to be for determining
identity? And how does the reality of identity interface with
linguistic expressions? Information on this as appears in megaten is
on the philosophy of mind page.

**Thick survival** refers to continuing to exist while preserving your identity. Most relevant when talking about post death. Such as in theory being born in a new world still as "yourself." Like certain afterlife ideas.

**Thin survival** refers to when something sufficiently continuous with you exists such as to count as not entirely not existing, but it is not seen as bearing your exact identity. For instance, if you were to split into two beings who both survived. Certain writers such as parfit point out that identity is not totally preserved even within one life, so the idea that it might not be entirely in death is not a huge deal, and does not mean anything much worse than changes one undergoes in life. This provides context for existence past death in some form, albeit a hard to follow one.

Megaten seems to imply the importance of thin survival, but at times it borders more on thick. Souls can change, but still incarnate as new entities, or even be destroyed without it being oblivion, but merely the essence moving into the world itself. Individual reincarnations are seen as a little closer to thick survival at times when a large amount of identity is preserved however. But often not full ones. Which is why in iva it is presented as a choice whether to identify with yourself being the reincarnation of akira or not.

## Thoughtforms and egregores

**Thoughtforms** and **Egregores**. A thoughtform is an esoteric concept, also known as a tulpa or in some contexts an egregore, and based on the earlier Vajrayana concept of the emanation body. A thought-form is a form shaped in some way by human thought, but which obtains a more tangible reality as an external spiritual force. The idea of the thoughtform was developed in theosophy, but later became a more ubiquitous esoteric concept.

Thought-Forms, as originally defined were divided into three classes: forms in the shape of the person who creates them, forms that resemble objects or people and may become ensouled by nature spirits or by the dead, and forms that represent inherent qualities from the astral or mental planes, such as emotions. In terms of megaten, the second of these is the most important, with the third also being relevant.

In megaten, demons are described as being thoughtforms to a degree, in that the forms humans see of them are shaped to a degree by human thoughts. This doesn't mean that humans have full control over them however, and to what degree they still exist outside of human perception is left deliberately ambiguous. Humans mentally shape the archetypes they appear as to humans, and then some intangible and from the human perspective indefinable essence of spirit will fill it to give it a tangible appearance in human perception. With some games like strange journey using blue squares to show that when not made tangible, demons appear to humans as a relatively meaningless shape.

The term egregore in particular is a specific form of thoughtform that arises from the collective thoughts of a distinct group of people. Originally, the concept referred to angelic beings, or watchers, and the specific rituals and practices associated with them, namely within Enochian traditions. But in modern fay the term has been purposed to refer to a thoughtform associated with a group that has a common motivation. One that becomes tangible, being made up of, and influencing the thoughts of the group. The symbiotic relationship between an egregore and its group has been compared to the more recent, non-occult concepts of the corporation (as a juridical person or legal entity) and the meme.

In terms of megaten, this is closer to being the more specific form of thought form that is relevant, because demon archetypes are implied to be shaped by the thoughts not of any given individual, but by the thoughts of many people coalescing together. And may indeed represent the groups that give rise to them. Although some represent more manifestations of abstracts and parts of nature, representing not human ideals, but human perceptions on external things. And similar to the concept of the egregore, they become in a dynamic relationship with humans, affecting humans in turn as humans effect them. Individual demons may also be dissatisfied with the form they manifest as, and seek another one, or even be viewed as different forms by different people. (note that if we are talking about personas rather than demons, it is often depicted as a thought form shaped by only the one whose persona it is).

This isn't however to say that demons are totally bound by human whims, or should be seen as only a human epiphenomenon. As stated above, in what sense they exist outside of human perception is left ambiguous, but they do have external lives, and some are stated to not bother appearing in the human world at all, being less affected by human thoughts in turn. So while human thoughts influence their nature and power on earth, and even to a degree in the demon realm, the degree outside of human perception is left ambiguous by design.

While the esoteric concept of thoughtforms does draw on jungian archetypes, and the games also do so explicitly, it is worth noting that the form of this idea that shows up in fiction is not just made up by writers as a metaphor for groups, but as shown, draws on actual modern esoteric teachings. These teachings to a degree had their origins in negative theology, and the idea that the divine is beyond comprehension, and that how one sees it is a limited manifestation. This evolved to the idea that different levels of human spiritual growth can see different forms of divinity, and eventually to the idea that human psychology and its limits may shape it in all sorts of cultural ways.

At a glance, it might seem odd for actual spiritual teachings to posit that human religion changing can change tangible divine manifestations, but this was born in part to account for variations of religions belief in different cultures, accommodating the idea that all of these were interacting with tangible divinity in different forms. So this accommodates both the idea that the human perception is limited, and so introduces a “subjective” element to spirituality, as well as the idea of spiritual evolution, which can posit that humans can evolve to higher forms over time. Which is something alluded to by the games themselves, albeit indirectly, in nozomi complaining about yhvh preventing the birth of new gods, by seeking to remain as a static unchanging form that blocks out the possibility of human development moving past it.

## Dialectical monism

**Dialectical monism**, also known as **dualistic monism**, is an ontological position that holds that reality is ultimately a unified whole, distinguishing itself from monism by asserting that this whole necessarily expresses itself in dualistic terms.
 For the dialectical monist, the essential unity is that of
complementary polarities, which, while opposed in the realm of
experience and perception, are co-substantial in a transcendent sense. In other words, that while things may appear dualistic within reality, this dualism ultimately reflects a unity rather than fundamentally distinct substances. The dualism likewise is divided further into a multiplicity of distinction. While this is a modern term, used by existentialists among other people, it can be applied to the beliefs of many historical religions.

Megaten obviously implies something like this to some degree. There is only one axiom, from which everything both derives and exists as part of. But within reality things have separate existence. And the main drive in many of the worlds is the polarity of the properties of order and chaos, (or occasionally light and dark) and the ways they manifest. Even in games that don't have alignments proper like dds this is mentioned somewhat. Note that this doesn't imply that everything exists in exclusively distinct and discrete states. Things can have both properties within them, and reflect them in different ways. and people can choose to view the ramifications of this different ways as well, either seeing a balance as better, or a certain property as more preferable. Likewise, balances can exist in different places. Both in law and chaos characters you can see an element of polarity, such as with merkabah and lucifer manifesting both light and dark qualities.

An important part to realize about these properties is that in any given world implied to exist in-game, the properties are in a certain state, and observation can only work inasmuch as the state allows. For instance, if you start in a neutral world, observation doesn't seem to be able to allow for the arising of only orderly gods who instantly transform the world to order. Since if you are in a pre-existing world with orderly and chaotic properties, then observation has to account for things as they already exist. If the demonic essence of the world is half chaotic then beings will come to utilize these resources and empower themselves with them to balance orderly ones unless this shifts and the proportion changes. The actions of demons can also shift the power imbalance and the flow of magnetite, such as in iva when yhvh prevents the birth of new gods.

This can be in different forms though. Some observation may create beings who contain both properties. Some might make them distinct beings. But it seems like demons feed on what properties exist, and so the vacuum might result in something else filling it to feed off of those properties as they exist in the world. Note that while demon worlds are heavily influenced by the physical world, it is not 1:1. So the human world turning entirely lawful for example wouldn't automatically make the demon worlds do the same, though it would make them have a harder time maintaining their existence without many of the demons moving to being more orderly too. And demon actions can shift this as well, such as an angel becoming a fallen angel. It doing so shifts some of the properties of the world. Note that from the demon's perspective this is not meant to come off odd, but as a natural unfolding of ideas like social influence.

This is shown as how in the past of neutral worlds, it seems mostly orderly gods were venerated (not counting the ancient world where it was more chaotic ones), because they are associated more with the persona, and chaotic ones with the shadow. But people identifying with them does not mean that only they get power. Since the world as a whole was neutral, the chaotic gods had power as well, even if not gods who were often venerated directly. Tough notably, chaotic ones had less power over the world itself, which is something a lot more magnetite is needed for. Since both these aspects exist, the spirit world will reflect both as well. The spirit world can fight among itself semi autonomously of the human world at times, but if it shifts too much that would effect the human world and vice versa since what happens in each world effects the other. And since demons need resources to exist, they have to account for the flow of human thoughts.

Note that that doesn't mean that demons lack free will. You are meant to see them as the other side of the coin of humans. If a human society has a certain arrangement, the humans it will produce likewise correspond to the arrangement as it exists. But humans can deviate from where they begin same as demons can. And demons trying to change the state of the world will likewise effect human society, which feeds back into demon society. If angels become fallen angels, this shifts some of the spiritual aspects of the world to chaos. But at the same time, they need to feed off of the type of magnetite flow that sustains this. So if there wasn't enough sustaining chaotic existence, they would potentially lose a lot of power by doing so. Which is why gods appearing to humans to effect them can also shift the flow of thoughts. Lucifer by giving demonic gnosis to humanity created more chaotic thoughts, providing more resources for chaos demons

So this doesn't mean that things can't change or that the balance is always the same. The more a world shifts in one direction, the less it will have to account for properties of opposite kinds. I.E. a world that is already orderly when observing would tend to produce more orderly beings. But if you observe those same beings in a neutral world, they would not have absolute power, but would be at odds with whatever chaotic beings exist. What it means is that shifting the properties of the world more orderly or more chaotic cannot be done instantly by mere observation. The spiritual worlds exist too and have their own struggles, and they can fight back against human thoughts changing their structure. Which is one basis of in SJ why the demons are invading earth. They disapprove of a lot of what human society is doing to the demonic realms. There's one divided reality, but observation divides the orderly and
chaotic aspects. You can draw different lines, but if you draw them a
certain way, and opposing pattern is created to balance it.

You can't simply observe orderly beings to be winning, due to demons having their own lives but you can join with the ones that exist to help propagate order into being the dominant aspect, and by extension demons can shift to be more orderly a society too. Human thoughts being more orderly would empower orderly gods making it more likely for them to win against those of chaos. Which again, since demons and humans are two sides of the same coin, these orderly beings can themselves push humans to be more orderly to empower them.

As such, a kind of yin yang polarity is applied to everything. Even in angels, the potential for fallen angels can exist, and if you are in a neutral world where chaotic properties are still strong, then if there is a vacuum of space to be filled by chaotic beings, then likely some demons will come to try to make use of those resources to empower themselves. Like filling a vacuum. if not by an angel becoming a fallen angel, or an angel performing darker duties, then some other demon. In devil survivor they even say directly, eternal damnation and eternal salvation are always opposite sides of the same coin. Showing the interrelated nature of what exists, and how it is tied together. And in iva it shows how the original satan of their world fulfilled orderly and chaotic aspects, but later broke into angels and fallen angels.

Note that filling this role can be accomplished multiple ways. Such as in kabbalah where interpretations differ between whether the angels who control the qliphoth side are on the side of god, working in a dark capacity versus enemies. If the world is neutral, then beings who are themselves orderly could seek to fulfill the role of the dark side for the sake of balance for humans. Or this could be done in a darker way, such as in iva, where yhvh despite being an ostensibly orderly being wanted the world to remain neutral overall, and so deliberately manipulated lucifer into rebelling to fill this role. Note how the polarity is a large focus in kabbalah too. Polarity is an inherent aspect of megaten worlds, and the spirits know as well that the way they relate to humans has to account for it. So demons can try various ways to keep a side that is opposing them from being empowered by opposing human thoughts. Though ultimately the best way is to shift human nature.

In devil survivor atsuro even compares it to a democracy in a sense. Saying that "A god’s power comes directly from belief in it... Religion sounds a lot like politics." Which means that even if any given demon doesn't fill the role of the properties that humans are electing over them, if humans are upholding it, likely it will get filled by another. Note however that this is not absolute, since demons can wage war on one another too, and this likewise effect the human world. And there are ways for them to bend the rules to get power. But since they represent properties of the world, archetypes, and the dialectical flow, the overall dynamic is going to involve it. Note that since being bounded by language only applies to demons who reveal themselves to humans, all of this applies more to demons who manifest to humans, since the degree to which this all corresponds to the human world effects far more those demons who interact with it. For demons who remain in spiritual realms that humans never see, they have more freedom.

Note also how this has to do with effects as they manifest to humans. So how the demon realms exist and function can exist in a variety of different states so long as they fulfill the role that effects the human world in the way that the human world necessitates. For instance, some might see demons this way. That their act of inflicting fear in humans is done so that humans learn respect and preserve order. But for a demon to embody harsh aspects of nature doesn't follow that they have to fight for a world of chaos, or uphold one in their demonic realm to a full degree even if that is the role they play to humans. Which is why in IV you see mastema commanding demons, and seeking to fight for a world of neutrality, despite by nature being an orderly being. Chaos and order beings could unite to fight for a neutral situation even if they feed off of different properties. In some ways, their forms can be seen as related to jobs they have, but which don't necessarily tell you what side they are on, or even how they perform them. But the properties of the world effect heavily what roles are open to be filled for spirits.

This has parallels to some real religions. For instance, in taoism, the yin and yang qualities exist, but different gods can fill the roles associated with the qualities. But while the properties exist in certain proportions, the individual god can perform the tasks in different ways. Except here, the implication is that the amount of each can fundamentally shift. Though for any given state it is at, the roles end up filled accordingly. Some religions even did include ideas about spirits subsisting from worship or libations, and dying from the lack of it. And so this overall idea of observation despite being a metaphor for human thoughts and how groups affect reality does not mean that demons have no existence of their own, but merely highlights that human thoughts are like a major resource that they need to interact with a certain way to gain power. Not unlike in taoism how you can go along with the flow of the tao or against it, but there are various ways to try to flow downstream that will give you an easier time.