Transcripts:Closed Session, Zephyr 15, 1329

***Present:***
Vice Legate Wolfe
Minister Aguillard
Minister Dylane
Minister Myrrdin
Minister Thermogan
Minister Volundir
Secretary Aquitaine
Secretary Kavesh
Secretary Thrush
Magistrate La Verdiere
Lieutenant Kent

*Vice Legate Wolfe*:  “Welcome, fellow Ministers and Ministry staff. I hope that you have all been well since the last time we met. I want to begin tonight with a few announcements before we move onto the docket. First and foremost, I am beginning to piece together a cultural initiative to help instill Krytan pride in the diverse cultures of our districts and would very much like to meet with each of you in order to discuss how your districts can be involved. Secondly, the date of Minister Valoran’s hearing has been set for the twenty-second of the Zephyr at seven bells in the evening. I hope you all will be in attendance. If you are unable to be, please send a letter denoting who your secretary or representative in attendance will be, Ministers. I’ll give a moment for any questions regarding either of these.

***[No questions.]***

“Moving on, the sole topic on tonight’s docket is the Foreign Defense Act of 1329 AE. Considering this bill is sponsored by Minister Thermogan, I will turn it over to him to introduce.”

***[Minister Thermogan is given the floor.]***

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Thank you all very much. I will keep this brief as many of you have already heard of this bill for almost a full season. This is a simple bill as it just deals with documentation with Sylvari. If you have questions, I will be more than willing to speak on it, though the writing of it is pretty tight without much misinterpretation of it.”

***[Magistrate La Verdiere is given the floor.]***

*Magistrate La Verdiere*:  “With Mordremoth’s defeat, what purpose does this have anymore? Additionally, we are clearly singling out the Sylvari. There are other races and groups in the past that have done harm to Kryta and the Human race, yet I don’t remember seeing anything about requiring them to be grouped in with this Legislation. Should it pass as in, I have concerns that there will be more out-lash at the government and more importantly, our citizens. What do you have to say on this?”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Ah, yes, though I feel that we cannot ignore the potential threat that could happen once more. The Sylvari have proved that they could be controlled by a being of immense power that yes while dead, doesn’t get them off the hook within my eyes. This is just a safety measure to give people peace of mind, along with the process being utterly painless as well.”

*Magistrate La Verdiere*:  “Orrians in death proved just as much a threat. And they were human.”

***[Minister Aguillard is given the floor.]***

*Minister Aguillard*:  “If I may be frank, Minister Thermogan, this was the very language that I disputed with you all those sessions ago. I told you even recently in your office that the legislation I agree to will be an all-inclusive requirement of each race and non-Krytan citizen. I find this piece rather concerning and discriminatory. We have people of all races as refugees, soldiers, and allies. With Mordremoth’s defeat, I find a racial designation to be incredibly outdated. If the information I have received from my contacts currently in Maguuma is correct, then new Mordrem are not being drawn, for there is no overarching, tethered line that binds them together. Those who are under the dragon’s influence have already been controlled past their sanity. But regardless, I feel as though you have disregarded the pleas of your colleagues.”

***[Minister Thermogan is given the floor.]***

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Your words were taken into effect of what you said a season ago, Minister Aguillard. Though I spoke with others as well, confined in a few, and we came up that the people of Kryta should be protected. Though this is minor compared to the others that have gone through. I respect your opinion on this matter, though I went through with the version I pushed with from the start.”

***[Minister Aguillard is given the floor.]***

*Minister Aguillard*:  “I hope you understand then, Minister Thermogan, that if I am to protect those who seek refuge in my district, I will not be voting to pass your bill. I do wish that you had the courtesy to inform me that you intended to change the language of a bill you rallied me to support.”

***[Minister Dylane is given the floor.]***

*Minister Dylane*:  “I do not agree with all of Minister Aguillard’s reasoning, but I certainly understand the spirit of it. Since first hearing the suggestion of this legislation, I have expressed my doubts, and I feel I would be remiss if I did not give voice to them once again on behalf of the people of Rurikton. I do not find this legislation unfavorable because I fear how those outside of the Kingdom may respond. I believe that, despite Mordremoth’s fall, there are still valid concerns in regards to our neighbors that hail from Caledon. There is fear, and concerns that shall remain valid into the foreseeable future. How we approach the matter may well be up for debate, as it is true that the situation has altered slightly. Will this bill cause us any great harm? No. Shall it provide us with a solution or even tools with which to guard ourselves? No. It is the latter query from which the problem arises. This so-alleged ‘defense act’ provides little more than an illusion, an d the policy within does very little in effect. If we are to put forward such a loft insinuation, it is my humble opinion that it should be worthy of the name.”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “To me, peace of mind is defense within my district and of the many who are part of the front, Lord Minister Dylane. The less worry a soldier has on their mind, the less chance they become deserters, along with less chance of becoming some rogue bandit group that plagues many districts within Kryta. I don’t wish to see more good men and women flee from the battlefield due to the weight and doubt that could come. They must believe in their Kingdom that keeps them safe. Though, this has turned into some political speech. My apologies. Though, I think my point comes across. Minister Aguillard, I do apologize for not informing you of the chance I made of the wording earlier. You were part of the process and I do apologize for the fact of keeping you out of the loop. I also understand your vote and its reasoning.”

*Minister Dylane*:  “Forgive me, Minister, but your spoken words, while lofty and audible as the title of your bill, are hollow. Lacking in substance as is this piece of legislation you would have us sign into law. Months upon months have passed since this situation arose. In that time, the language, as it is presented here, has remained largely unchanged. It has not grown, and developed. It is, as I say, an illusion of action. It lacks the tone of leadership, and stewardship, this chamber demands.”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Lord Minister Dylane, I feel that an extensive bill that overhauls how we view Sylvari or others in general. We could have gone with the idea that I went with Minister Aguillard, which included all who aren’t [Krytan Citizens]. Though this would be logistically a nightmare and cause an economic strain within the government for having too many moving parts. Given that Kryta is at ward and has been, I feel putting more strain on the logistics of administrative work would cause a significant buckle. We couldn’t push too hard on them as I feel we’d get a significant backlash that’d cause the protection that this bill wishes to ensure to be moot.”

*Minister Dylane*:  “Certainly adding more paperwork would have only extended the illusion of productivity as I illustrated earlier. Expanding your bill as it is written would, I believe provide strain enough to put it dangerously close to being more detrimental than helpful. This is due, wholly, to that this legislation provides very little beyond a surface assurance. It is near criminal of us to continue in this grain. I also would call your economic projections into question in regards to a more comprehensive piece of legislation, yet, as it is not yet written that would only serve as waste of our time. I cede the floor.”

***[Minister Myrrdin is given the floor.]***

*Minister Myrrdin*:  “I wanted to respectfully disagree with Minister Dylane. He stated earlier that this legislation does no great harm, and I respectfully disagree. Not only does this legislation create administrative burden through paperwork that gives a false sense of security to those who do not know what true security means; it would require a great amount of attention from our Seraph and Ministry Guard to check the papers of every person supposed to have paperwork to make this legislation somewhat meaningful. That would divert much needed attention away from more concrete threats that continue to make orphans of our children, destroy homes, crops, and other common tragedies. I will not vote in favor of a bill that proposes paperwork and nothing more, no matter what additional categories of non-Krytans you add to it.”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Minister Myrrdin, I feel this bill doesn’t harm the way you say. Within Gendarran and much of Kryta there are soldiers who desert due to the feeling that the government cannot protect them. That we, as representatives, will not keep them safe. The unrest in soldiers, citizens, and anyone who lives on the front are just as a real threat as any enemy of Kryta. This bill, right here, helps ease the people of my district and those who are war ridden. I don’t expect every Seraph to check every Sylvari either, though they have the option to ask for their papers. To toss aside and to assume that Kryta has no unrest amongst its citizens is an idea I cannot support. If this were the case though, we wouldn’t be plagued by bandits in almost every district outside of the city walls.”

*Minister Myrrdin*:  “If soldiers who intend to desert are assured by a piece of paper, they are not deserving to be soldiers in the first place. Those deserters ought to be prosecuted for dishonoring the oath they took as protectors of this kingdom. Perhaps we ought to look into better recruitment policies if this desertion issue is what drives this legislation.”

***[Lieutenant Kent is given the floor.]***

*Lieutenant Kent*:  “Minister Thermogan, if the desertion rate is as high as you say, then how do you plan on enforcing these policies? Do you intend to move funds enough to pay for the extra recruitment efforts and man hours involved? How do you believe would be the best way for our Ministry Guard and Seraph to approach people to check papers in a way that doesn’t feel as if their rights aren’t being violated? Will contribute to our recruitments efforts as well?”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Minister Myrrdin, I would feel your words would have weight if we haven’t been fighting the centaur for generations; f we haven’t been fighting a united front of the centaur tribes for so long. It’s at a point where it is stagnating. Before even the Queen took her throne, we had this war on our hands. If we have poor recruitment then we’ve had it longer than I’ve been alive. Though if you wish for something to help improve that factor, I would be happy to work with you for it as this is a serious problem. The policing of the bill would be simple. I’ll pose a scenario; A seraph sees a random fight happen. One of them is Sylvari, the other is Human. The Seraph, within that reason, is able to ask for their papers. Though to speak of your other statements? This is to bring down the unrest within the frontier districts. A simple write up of the law and it being advertised from the city to the frontier is both cheap and easy to grasp. The recruitment would have to come from another bill as this is meant to drive away unrest within our Kingdom.”

*Lieutenant Kent*:  “Minister Thermogan, how do you plan to make people compliant with this law?”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “You cannot be soft handed with this as it would seem hollow. This will be set as law, so, without them they would be faced with a fine and if it continues, further actions may be put onto them.”

***[Minister Volundir is given the floor.]***

*Minister Volundir*:  “It seems to me that from these discussions there is a fear that this is merely an illusion of safety, or that it will be too expensive and costly to the policing orders in terms of manpower. But from my understanding there would be little need for an increase in policing as the registration would simply complement the Seraph and Ministry Guard in place rather than cause an increased need. I don’t think the intention is to stop and check the registration papers of every Sylvari walking the streets. Rather, it seems that it would be focused on Sylvari stopped by Seraph for things such as participating in a bar brawl, or being identified as a possible suspect by a witness, or even simply being checked before entering a public function such as an open session, for example. And the papers themselves? We have a talented team of Magistrates who I’m sure can handle the registration of Sylvari at little monetary impact to the kingdom. As for the enforcement of the registration papers themselves, a fine and a warning as suggested by Minister Thermogan for first time offenders would more than suffice, I feel. In conclusion, even if this act is simply an illusion of safety, it is something that can be done to help minimize unrest at little cost to the kingdom until we can come up with something more expansive.”

*Minister Dylane*:  “I think we have exhausted the topic, and covered many if not all the particulars of this piece of legislation. I wish to motion for a vote.”

***[Vice Legate Wolfe seconds the motion and voting on the Foreign Defense Act of 1329 AE begins.]***
***Minister Myrrdin votes against.***
***Minister Thermogan votes in favor.***
***Minister Dylane votes against.***
***Minister Aguillard votes against.***
***Minister Volundir votes in favor.***
***Vice Legate votes against.***
***[The Act does not pass.]***

*Vice Legate Wolfe*:  “Are there any parting comments that people would like to add before we disperse this evening?”

***[Minister Volundir is given the floor.]***

*Minister Volundir*:  “Thank you. I will be away from Ministry duties for the next two to three days for personal reasons. In my brief absences, Secretary Kavesh will be handling the affairs of the Ascalonian Settlement office. That is all.”

***[Secretary Thrush is given the floor.]***

*Secretary Thrush*:  “In regards to the hearing that is coming up, on the twenty-second… I noticed Minister Valoran is not present at this current session. I recognize this is his choice, since you graciously extended noted last session that he would be allowed to attend, though not participate. I was wondering if the good Minister was collaborated with to set the date.” Thrush glanced down at the paper she’d been searching for and reads from it. “As he will be given a chance to present his counter claims and any evidence that would support his points.”

*Vice Legate Wolfe*:  “No, he was not. Nor was anyone collaborated with when I set this date. You all have the same opportunity to attend the hearing.”

*Secretary Thrush*:  "Out of curiosity, why weren't both Lord-Lieutenant Kent and Minister Valoran, at the very least, taken into consideration? As they're the two main parties presenting evidence for the hearing."

*Vice Legate Wolfe*:  “While I am sure that the Lord-Lieutenant appreciates you inquiring on his behalf, have anyone an issue with the date, they have the equal opportunity to get in touch with me. This date is being

***[Minister Thermogan is given the floor.]***

*Minister Thermogan*: “I will implore all Ministers to consider the front at this point. Within Gendarran we’ve face the centaur threat for far too long. I would like to meet with other Ministers as revanchism and patriotic duty isn’t something that pushes Kryta any further. I wish to hear alternatives to help the desertion numbers go further down. I don’t mean to sound condescending though; we all don’t hide behind walls. That is all.”

***[Secretary Thrush is given the floor.]***

*Secretary Thrush*:  “If I have any more [questions], I’ll be sure to speak with [the Vice Legate] privately. If anyone should have a conflict and wishes to revise the date, and it would accommodate more than hinder, would the date be allowed to change?”

*Minister Dylane*:  “Forgive me, Vice Legate, for my interjection. Secretary, may I ask the point of your question? Do you have some fear that Lady Wolfe has divined the future to ensure the least efficient date?”

*Secretary Thrush*: "I have seen firsthand in my time as a Seraph what it is like to hold a hearing, criminal or not, without all parties involved. Should either Lieutenant Kent, Minister Valoran, or even a large portion of the Ministerial body, not be available for the hearing, I assure you I would be concerned. I am merely asking so that any here, who think they may have a conflict, know what tools they have at their disposal. Just as the good Vice Legate informed them that they may use Secretaries in their stead, if they would prefer."

*Vice Legate Wolfe*:  Secretary Thrush, while I appreciate your line of question, the date that I have selected has been set. Should the Ministers have an issue with the date en masse, I will change it. I will not however, change the date for Lord-Lieutenant Kent or Minister Valoran if it does not favor the whole body. What I have extended to both the Lord Lieutenant and Minister Valoran is a courtesy, and neither is mandatory. What is required of me is to sign a petition and then vote no sooner than a week later. In the attempt to give both sides of this conversation the chance to be heard, I have arranged for a hearing before the vote. I am in no means required to do that. What is important is that the Minister are present. Their attendance is first and foremost. I will not change the date if this affects their ability to attend. The Lord-Lieutenant and Minister can send a representative in their stead.”

*Minister Dylane*:  “It is vested within the responsibilities of the Vice Legate to set forward a date. It is our duty as Ministers to attend to hear the evidence put forward, it is the burden of Lieutenant Kent to make this his top priority. It is likewise upon Minister Valoran to ensure he is able to attend. Anything less is not worthy of the chamber.”

*Minister Thermogan*:  “Do you speak for the Vice Legate now, Minister Dylane? You have spoken more than once for her in this session and many time in the past.”

***[Vice Legate Wolfe motions to end the Session. Minister Thermogan seconds the motion and no other concerns are brought forward. The Closed Session ends at eight and three-quarter bells.]***