ASM060 Codependency, Processed Foods, and the Value of Life

[transcript automatically generated - please help edit to make it better]

codependency processed foods and the value of life all that and more on this week's episode of ask science mike

[Music]

welcome to ask science mike the weekly podcast where i answer your questions about science faith and life lots and lots going on this week as we not only start ticket sales for the religious gathering but also go on tour with gunger for the one wildlife tour i'll talk about all of that at the end of the show but for now we're gonna answer some questions so let's get it started [Music] hello science michael it seems to be a core component of the christian faith is valuing life and i love people i really do try to give of myself to people and uphold life in a number of ways but at the same time i sometimes get confused on why issues like global warming or other things that seem very set on preserving the human race which i'm not opposed to preserving the human race but sometimes i do question why or what does it matter if we continue to exist as a species or not i particularly like this question because it starts off as seemingly like it's headed for sort of a really pragmatic scientific discussion of why people value life but it instead like veers off into total philosophical ideas of merit and worth like why does it matter if the human race continues like so i think we would all agree we humans are huge fans of human life but you know i don't think it's always been that way we've had this expanding notion of shared values and shared humanity that's been going on for quite some time the earliest humans were most concerned with their given tribe and they were in frequent intertribal intergroup conflict as we entered into city-states and nations our conflicts grew in scale and scope and tenacity uh we invented genocide and we've actually had a period relatively recently in human history where we've gotten less violent and where there seems to be a greater appreciation for the merit of all human life now do not hear me as saying that we have complete regard for human life i think white supremacist structures in america racist systems across the globe the disparities between rich and poor income inequality health inequality then we still have a great deal of violence both personal violence as well as societal violence state versus state or intra-state conflict i am no means painting some heroic perfect picture of human life but i would say as a trend i think stephen pinker is more correct than not when he says that we are facing a global decline in violence and a greater appreciation for life i mean if you just go back a few hundred years ago uh people boiled cats and oil at social gatherings for fun an idea most of us would find aberrant today now biologically those people were remarkably similar to us they had very similar brains very similar brain capacities so what's the difference a huge part of that difference is culturalization our cultures are conditioning us training us to value life more and composing ever larger pictures of what it means to all be part of one tribe i'd love to see a day where the vast majority of humans considered as their tribe all other humans now this begins to look into deeper issues why do we value human life more than other species why is it basically okay for dolphins to be caught in nuts as we fish but it's a it's a huge crime if a human is these are interesting questions but when we get down to it what what is that merit come from the first place other than a place of being self-serving right why is human life important well one i think life has to be honored for its rarity by the way i am skipping over christian arguments here i'm assuming you've heard christian arguments for the value of life that we are created and loved by god i'm assuming that because you're asking this you're looking for a more independent perspective that doesn't you know pin its hopes necessarily on theism so necessary little disclaimer in that context when we look at the universe life is incredibly rare we know of one and only one planet with life on it so from that perspective alone simply from its rarity life seems to be something that should be preserved and protected this is also true for intelligent life like human life life has a capacity to suffer if that suffering can be avoided you can make an ethical argument that suffering should be avoided but we are creatures who can study the universe who can try to understand it who can catalog knowledge and communicate a gift that so far seems to be exclusive to us and i would argue that that alone makes the human race worthy of protecting and preserving even if we separate our selfish genes our biological desire to protect the species there's a higher order need the universe lacks intelligent life as far as we can tell even if it's out there it appears to be in limited pockets of the cosmos and so it's simply a case of rarity what it what if we are the only intelligent species in the history of the universe what if on every other planet that harbors life it's more akin to microbial life or more primitive organisms what if we're the only thinking species in the known universe what if we're the only thinking species in the entire spatial universe now that seems unlikely to me but today we don't have any evidence to the contrary i think protecting and preserving human life should be one of the primary moral goals of human society i think that's why we should invest heavily in things that don't seem to pay off immediately like space travel and colonizing other planets to have a backup plan in case the earth is struck by an asteroid or some other calamity occurs it's why i think working so hard against climate change is essential because ultimately rapid anthropomorphic climate change may pose an existential threat to civilization and because of that may threaten the very fabric of human life don't get me wrong the earth will be fine we lack the capabilities to harm a planet it's only the thin bios film on its surface that is so essential to us that we also have the capacity to harm personally i think this capacity to wonder why and to create is what genesis is talking about when it says that we are made in the image of god we have the ability to make decisions to create to destroy with intent it's something that only happens at this scale with humanity that we know of and this unique image i believe should continue to be beared to be made and that only happens when we protect human life so i answer a very philosophical question very pragmatically we are a rare species and i believe we are made in the image of god and because of those two things i believe our race our species should be preserved [Music] our next question came in via email and it reads what are the negatives of processed foods and how can people ensure they are consuming healthy foods when almost all our foods are being processed even fruits vegetables dairy products etc okay you guys and girls and gender non-conforming folk keep sending me food science questions and i hate answering food science questions because every time nutritional science has like the the seemingly consensus answer to food problems we figure out we were wrong and some substantial way i'll give you an example saturated fats were understood medically to be a problem especially for heart health so we invented something called trans fats so we could lower the amount of saturated fat in foods and we did so successfully and it turned out that trans fats were way more dangerous than saturated fats and when i look into what the research is about the best possible most optimal diet there's a lot of conflicting information so whatever i say right now i am going to basically pick a school of thought but without being especially qualified to do so so feel free to send in your citing references that disagree with what i'm going to say it's totally cool i realize i'm going to stay within the bounds of accepted science here i'm not going to go anywhere fringe but there's a lot of disagreement in mainstream science about what's optimal in terms of diet there just is i think this is largely because there's such a variation and not only genetic composition and our biochemistry but also in our individual activity levels and circumstances i think some diets are better suited to people with different health conditions different genetic predispositions and different activity levels so i'm going to try to split the difference with my limited understanding and give you the best i understand processed foods are not necessarily bad for example adding vitamin d to milk isn't the end of the world people need vitamin d and so that's technically processed foods now some people would say but you shouldn't have any dairy i get it there are there are complications with dairy but my ultimate point is processing a food does not necessarily make that food less healthy why people offer the guideline of avoiding processed foods is foods that remain closer to their more natural state tend to be better for us and there's no absolute here you could eat you know raw pork belly or or get a you know fresh butchered pork belly and just eat pork belly three meals a day and it's going to be terrible for your health even though that's not processed food because you're going to consume way too much fat right so when you think about things like this think guidelines and when people say avoid processed foods who aren't quacks here's what they mean watch out for foods that have a lot of added salt a lot of added fats especially trans fats and a lot of added sugars or sweeteners and those tend to be very present in the foods we consume that come in boxes and come in frozen containers now not all processed foods again are equally bad canned vegetables their main sin tends to be a lot of salt and if you rinse them with water for example right before you eat them you can cut 40 percent of that salt back out but our brains love salts and fats and sugars we crave them they actually activate our brains pleasure centers when we eat them because we developed we evolved in environments where calories were scarce so when you came upon an animal that was fatty that your tribe managed to take down on the hunt it behooved you to eat as much as you possibly could as long as you possibly could because you didn't know when you would eat again same thing with sweet foods these are signals chemical signals of foods that are calorically dense but today we can get calories whenever we want in whatever quantity we want unless you're below the poverty line then your type of calorie you have to be much more selective about and we don't have to expend a lot of effort we're very sedentary and that's why these foods suddenly have turned bad there's a bit of research about that actually about super normal stimuli the way animal brains can be hijacked by artificial constructs that are more real than real for example if you make wooden bird eggs that are brighter blue than a natural bird's egg a mother bird will favor those fake eggs over real eggs even though that is harmful to her species outcome so it is with us and processed foods so how do you know which processed foods are worse watch out for foods that have added sugars and that definitely includes you know things like high fructose corn syrup or anything ending with oats ose on the label things that have a lot of added fat especially trans fat that's going to be on the label and a lot of sodium those are those are signals i've heard some nutritionists say you want to watch out for foods that have more than five ingredients on the label i could totally go to a grocery store and find something healthy with more than five ingredients on the label but that's just a point of caution to look out for another thing to look for is the glycemic index of food this is something diabetics have to be aware of it's basically how fast the carbohydrates in the food will break down into sugars in your bloodstream so that when you have more complex carbs uh fewer processed carbs fewer simple carbs things like whole grains instead of bleach flour things like natural rice instead of white rice any of those things are going to give you a better glycemic index and you're going to trend towards healthier foods things with higher fiber make you feel longer it's all about salts fat sugar salts fat sugars salts fats sugars as far as i can tell now some people will tell you you shouldn't eat any carbs and all meat is great for you or eating primarily meats is great for you other people say you should eat primarily fruits and vegetables and very sparing amounts of meat personally i think that second one is better for the planet and seems to be relatively good for people less meat more fruits and way more veggies seems to work pretty well for most people it's a more expensive way to eat though i don't deny it but again when you hear things like this processed foods are bad someone's taking a valid guideline based in science and it's getting over simplified and hyped up in the news cycle and the answer is a bit more nuanced than that i'm going to include two links in this week's show notes on this question that will help you make these kind of food choices and know what to look out for on the label and i've also got a really cool comic that explains super normal stimuli it is one of my favorite things on the internet again you can get that on the show notes at ask sciencemic.com [Music] our next question also came in via email and it reads i feel like i often retreat to passive aggressive or joking behavior when in conflict i know this is detrimental to positive conflict resolution but it almost feels like a built-in response mechanism of mine i hate it is there any science behind this mike thanks for all your work it's helped me tremendously in my faith journey more than you'll ever know brandon well brandon i have a good news for you passive aggressive and joking behaviors in conflict are really normal human behaviors that are incredibly common to our species here's why it gives you control and distance it gives you control of the situation historically our species has used violence as at least one ingredient in conflict and we have tools for avoiding conflict and we have tools for wounding others emotionally instead of physically bad natured humor attacks with humor destruction of your opponent's ego is part of that but it's also the defensive behavior so there's really common psychological defense mechanisms and one of those is dissociation and it allows you to get some distance and a humor does that humor is a dissociative tool as is compartmentalization putting things in boxes so when you can make a joke about something you're controlling it it's also can be a way to intellectualize things some humor is very heady very brainy and therefore less emotional helps you find distance from your emotions either way this is all about you trying to control your brain states in conflict you have this amygdala arousal your fight or flight response and it wants to be expressed in some way and a lot of people myself included actually have a fear anger response to their own fear anger response and i go into a state of internal conflict trying to get rid of my anger and humor is a way to do that now it can be really destructive if my wife and i are having a conversation that is serious that involves real conflict and something that should be resolved if i make a joke about her position uh if i make a joke about her feelings that's very hurtful and not helpful it doesn't help eliminate the conflict and it doesn't help us have a stable supportive relationship so what can you do you have already started you're aware of it awareness is the first step in behavioral change but it is only the first step a lot of people kind of stall out awareness this doesn't really help after that once you have this awareness you can add a behavior in the middle of conflict if you say something passive aggressive or if you make a joke at someone else's expense or even a joke about yourself that's hurtful you can apologize for that behavior immediately it's it sounds difficult it's surprisingly easy with practice you simply say i shouldn't have said that and i'm sorry that doesn't necessarily make what you said better the other person's feelings are still hurt but it does signal that wasn't your intention and it does help you make changes over time so you start with awareness then you follow that up with rapid behavioral modification on the other side of the behavior and then you learn to kind of watch your thoughts as they happen and you can interrupt them so i can generally 99.99 of the time stop behaviors like that before they happen because i'm very mindful of my behaviors this comes at a cost i'm not a terribly visceral person people can describe me as cerebral because i'm always standing a step back observing my thoughts i'm not saying it's perfect but if it matters to you how you handle yourself in conflict employing and practicing with some mindfulness and that could be selective you can intentionally become mindful during conflict can help you change those behaviors through awareness behavioral change and even cognitive behavioral therapy but it's totally normal this is the way human brains work when you enter into a state of conflict your prefrontal cortex kind of chills out your amygdala takes over and it's fight or flight you are no longer trying to come to some consensus you're no longer trying to resolve an issue peacefully you're trying to either win or defend yourself that's what your amygdala does which also means forgive me for rambling a little but it also means that intentionally stopping to quiet yourself to cool down maybe with some controlled breathing exercises maybe with some moments of silence to diffuse that amygdala activation can help the more reasonable parts of your brain step forward and have more control over your behavior whatever you try give yourself a pat on the back you're aware of a problem in your life that affects others that you want to change and i think we could all use a little more of that especially in this election cycle wow [Music] hi science mike this is greg best i've recently read a book called healing the shame that binds you by john bradshaw who is a psychotherapist i'm really fascinated by his study of shame and it's linked with codependency and how that affects well probably all of us in some way i'd love to hear your thoughts on the science behind codependency thank you so much so here's how i make ask science mike a friend of mine who i've met through the show named andrew golucky picks out questions and then when we have time on my travel schedule we put those on patreon and the people who listen to the show pick the questions that make it on the air and i usually read the questions the day before i record the show and then right before i record the show i'll make a three to five bullet point outline of each question just freehand and then i'll after i've done that for all four questions i go back and fact check my answers and this week i'm really glad i do that last part because my innate understanding of where codependency comes from was way off [Laughter] so i'm leaning heavily on the work of dr dayton who's a clinical psychologist and i've come across a couple of his pieces basically what he has to say is far more interesting and insightful than what i was going to say so let's start with like kind of what codependency is and codependency is a hyper awareness of the feelings of others to the point where other people's feelings are how you identify your own a joke that i've read in this piece that i'll have linked in the show notes on asksciencemike.com is a codependent is someone who gets someone else a sweater when they're cold right that's kind of the thing i've known a couple of truly wonderful but lost codependent people and they are overwhelmingly concerned with your well-being because it's the only way they know how to show concern for themselves is to to get other people to care for them since they're unable to this condition appears to be associated with frequent emotional trauma especially in your developmental years so if someone around you is having an extreme emotional outburst our natural response is to kind of clam up we get a sort of paralysis in the left temporal lobe it's very difficult to speak and some people literally freeze like a deer in headlights but all the while the right temporal lobe and structures in the right band that are responsible for emotional awareness of our environment go into overdrive so we're simultaneously powerless while ascertaining the actions of feelings of others that is my natural response to displays of anger or aggression i clam up and i freeze and i become very aware of how the person is feeling if that cycle is repeated enough times you'll find that people become codependent and that means their right brain their emotional scanning faculty and facilities are on all the time in an attempt to prevent others from having the kind of outburst that paralyzed them when i read that article i saw a lot of myself there i'm not a co-dependent person probably because i've done a lot of hard work and therapy but the things that people like about me probably a huge part of the reason you all listen to this podcast is i've dealt with enough people in my life whose anger made me uncomfortable that i'm always scanning other people's feelings and trying to figure out how to make them more comfortable but this the next step would be if i didn't have enough sense of self-worth then that was all i was concerned about at the expense of myself and what i've kind of learned to do through therapy and and kind of through spiritual awakening frankly uh this is the kind of stuff i attribute to god's grace is i both have a sense of self-worth and what my needs are as well as an awareness of the emotional states of other people and codependents aren't blessed with that luxury and so that's kind of what's happening scientifically with codependency you have people who have learned to preemptively avoid trauma by serving others and at first this is people in their lives who are potential sources of trauma but over time this becomes anyone they're in relationship with whether that's someone they're dating or married to or close friendships they begin to seek out ways to make other people as comfortable as they possibly can ultimately to have that person become fond of them so that they will help them and serve them as well i'm a terrible terrible person for codependence because in my desire to keep people safe i tend to allow the behaviors i don't necessarily have a great personal response for dealing with codependency this is probably like the worst possible condition for me to be a person who can provide healing for because i do tend to accept people readily but i never know how to lend aid to the codependents in my life and ultimately if the behaviors get too intense i tend to start putting up boundaries which is pretty scary for a person with codependency but the fact is it's pretty legitimate neurologically the origins are different than i suspected and if you'd like to learn more about codependency how it develops as well as some possible responses on ask sciencemic.com it's fascinating stuff most people have someone in their life who struggles with codependency and the really scary thing is when two codependents get in a relationship or a codependent is in a relationship with someone who will actually exploit that who will accept this person's constant self-sacrifices as a means of finding ego validation for example a codependent and a narcissist can be a truly toxic relationship people struggling with codependency the best thing you can do is weekly therapy with a really really good therapist someone you like someone you feel comfortable with who will teach you over time how to feel comfortable with yourself [Music] well there's another episode of ask science mike but don't hit pause on your podcast player just yet there's a few things i'd like to talk with you about number one tomorrow tomorrow tuesday at 11 a.m central time tickets for the liturgist gathering go on sale the first one is going to be in dallas and i'm actually going to open my calendar so i can tell you the dates how unprofessional of me to not have that ready it's going to be april 29th and 30th it's going to be 99 a ticket so we've worked really hard to make this the liturgist gathering less expensive than belong and we've done it 99 bucks for a day and a half is a much more affordable thing so we hope that you'll be interested it's going to be a great time to talk about faith and doubt we'll talk about the things we talk about on the liturgist podcast and ask science mike and michael and lisa gunger will be there and they'll perform some really good music and lead sometimes of worship and if that sounds weird and believe it or not you may actually have fun and worship and enjoy it and feel closer to god at the liturgist gathering again tickets go on sale tomorrow for 99 for the dallas event in the fall we'll be coming to denver chicago and los angeles look out for announcements about dates and venues in the next couple of weeks next week we also start the one wildlife tour with gunger so we will be in denver albuquerque and san diego before my next podcast episode drops now the one wild life tour is nothing like the liturgist gathering it's a one evening event and it's a gunger show it's a gengar concert i'm going to come out and do some kind of mind-blowing science mike stuff in between some of the songs and then after the show we will have a liturgist q and a so kind of talk about questions you have from the podcaster in your own journey and then also opening the whole event will be tom crouch an incredibly talented musician from the uk really we met him belong killer guy very talented so that tour is starting next week so you can learn about both of those by going to ask sciencemic.com and clicking on the events tab or if you're on my facebook page then you can just click on tour dates and learn all about them also really soon april 8th and 9th i'm doing the liminal conference in ventura california with peter ends this is going to be a couple day event with pete and i sharing and teaching about different things about science and faith and the bible i am really looking forward to this one if you follow me at all you know that peter ends is probably the most influential person in how i approach the scriptures and i am so honored to be doing this event with him and so thankful to the ventura vineyard church for putting this on and pulling it off so if you'd like to join us at that conference again just go to ask sciencemike.com click on events you can get more information along with the other bazillion events i have coming up this spring and summer i'd like to have more of those events as we move into the year it's pretty packed i am launching the book and this fall and there'll be a book tour and more news about that a little later in the year but i do have a few spots left especially in the late winter so if you've been thinking about bringing me to your church or college or conference just go to ask sciencemike.com and click the book mike button and my good friend jim chafee and chafee management will get back with you and there's lots of options to make that happen i'd love to come see you that's absolutely my favorite thing that i do now in terms of the show man thank you patrons on patreon for supporting the show financially if you'd like to join these folks one to five dollars a month is life changing for me i mean that one dollar to five dollars a month is life changing to me i'm a professional podcaster so patreon donations are the way i want to have that happen because if i'm going to be beholden to anyone i want it to be the listeners of this program so if you can throw me a buck or five i really appreciate it if not there are other ways you can help the show grow you can rate the show on itunes it makes an incredible difference in where itunes ranks the program you can share an episode on social media with your friends or you can ask a question if you go to ask sciencemike.com there is a form down at the bottom where you can type a question or you can actually record a voice question that's how you hear people's voices on the show and no questions equals no podcast so i would appreciate that like every week i want to thank all the people who make this show possible i am maybe the least involved so not only do the patrons make the show financially viable they also help pick the questions andrew golucki does our pre-production work our producer is greg nordine and our theme song is by jeb botiford thank you for listening i look forward to seeing you every week and i'll see you next week ish i'm a little worried about how i'm going to record the show on the road what the schedule is going to look like what the sound quality is going to look like since i will be in a van with the folks in gunger most of the day every day but uh hopefully i'll see you next week same time same channel in itunes