Episode 34: “I Love Trash” (w/ Sam Wineman!)

*In this episode we reintroduce the newest member of our Queerwolf family, Sam Wineman! He picked perhaps the best film with which to do so: 1999’s THE RAGE: CARRIE 2!   Michael struggles to parse out where the school day begins and ends, Brennan rants about Book Club, and Nay goes on the world’s worst hike.   Plus, in Tea Time we sip on THE ACT, THE GUARDIAN, SCREAM, and YOU.[1]*

## Trivia

Former guest Sam Wineman's first episode as a host. Sam: "Today we are coming to you from the charred ruins of the Bates High School. And in the spirit of 1999, we are all wearing chokers. I klepto'd it." Sam's first appearance was on episode 14 with Katya.

Topics brought up during the episode: *Poison Ivy*, Rafael Moreau,

## Tea Time

**Michael:** *Scream* (1996)

**Nay:** *The Act*

## Shady Summaries

**Nay:** Don't worry about how mean people are to you now, you will have the chance to kill them later

**Brennan:** It gets better

**Nay:** (chuckling) Yes!

**Michael:** It's so weird that this movie had two directors

**Brennan:** The One Where Rachel and Monica Go To a Party But People Do Not Remain Friends

**Michael:** (laughing) I hate you!

**Sam:** Girl who *hates* snow globes learns that less is a lot more with a wet look. Murders her *entire* senior class *and* finds love

**Brennan:** Aww!

**Sam:** In that order

**Michael:** That's amazing

## Pride Float

**Brennan:** So does this movie get a Pride Float though?

**Sam:** Hell. Fucking. Yes.

**Brennan:** Okay

**Sam:** It's a Pride float and it's covered in eight year old girls just--

**Michael:** Just Leeza's dead body

**Sam:** Did you guys notice-- that's horrific.

**Nay:** Just a car driving through

**Sam:** The car driving through

**Michael:** (laughing) It's just a giant windshield with a face stuck to it.

**Nay:** (to Michael) You ain't shit (laughs)

**Michael:** I mean, what is it, Sam?

**Sam:** I mean, nothing's gonna beat that, but the single queerest moment of this movie is for me when they're going through the drive-through to pick up the film--

**Michael:** *Ohh* yeah

**Sam:** And in the background there's a dance school open at like, fucking midnight

**Michael:** Yes!

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm

**Sam:** And there's a room of eight year old girls poorly, like they're dancing in the *dark*, with complete choreo--

**Nay:** Everybody goes to school at night!

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Sam:** Yeah!

**Michael:** Well they go to school twelve days a week

**Sam:** And it lasts the *entire* time! This is a real scene

**Michael:** I saw that, I noticed that

**Sam:** That's my Pride float

**Sam:** (to Michael) Pride float?

**Michael:** Yeah, I'll go along with the Pride float, I guess. Maybe a party

**Brennan and Nay:** Mmmmm

**Sam:** Just going along with it in this movie, it's not a good thing

**Michael:** I would definitely do a Trevor Project fundraiser in Lisa's name. Does that count?

**Sam:** Fair

**Nay:** Yes

**Brennan:** I would give Katt Shea-Ruben a Pride float, or she's now Katt Shea. Okay, Katt Shea a Pride float. She deserves it

**Michael:** Yes

**Brennan:** This movie is questionable enough that I'm not willing to commit to the movie itself

**Michael:** It would get a Pride float in Ninety-nine

**Brennan:** Would it?

**Michael:** Probably

**Brennan:** 'Cause obviously, I dunno. I mean obviously there's lesbian subtext of suppressed feelings and all that stuff, but also a lot of the, any time something explicitly queer is mentioned it's in a negative light

**Michael:** True. Good point

**Brennan:** And I'm just not super into that currently

**Michael:** It doesn't get a Pride float. No Pride float

**Brennan:** Nay, what do you think?

**Nay:** Uhhh, no. No. No Pride float

**Brennan:** Just full Betty Gabriel from *Get Out*? (as Betty Gabriel) "*No*. *No."*

**Nay:** I mean, maybe there's a booth and if you want to be called a "dyke" through a scream, someone will scream at you that you're a dyke

**Michael:** Okay. "Yell 'Dyke' for a Dollar"?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** I thought you said "*screen*" like through a confessional booth

**Nay:** Yeah. That whole sentence just wasn't working out

**Michael:** So it's got a positive… ends on a positive--

**Nay:** Yeah. People line up for things that they want to be called, and the dollar gets donated to charity

**Michael:** Perfect. I love that. Okay

## Quotes

**Sam:** I'm Sam Wineman, the newest member of the Blumhouse queer clubhouse

**Brennan:** Any queer family is a chosen family and we have *chosen* for Sam to join our ranks

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** Yes!  Sam will be co-hosting the show with us for awhile and we're very excited you're here

**Sam:** I could not be more excited to be here. You are a podcast I actually listen to

**Brennan:** (amused) Honestly? High praise!

**Michael:** (laughing) You're such a liar

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Honestly, pretty religiously

**Michael:** Liar

**Sam:** I love you guys

**Michael:** We love *you*, Sam

**Sam:** I was living for last week and all of the paranormal talk. So, I'm ready for the spin-off too, where we just talk about the weird shit that we did

**Michael:** Oh my God we totally should

**Brennan:** Honestly? It might just happen on this one. Who knows? We are apparently not good at staying on topic

**Nay:** We'll see

**Michael:** Sam is a filmmaker and a writer and an all-around good person

**Brennan:** Raconteur

**Sam:** One of those three things is definitely true. I *do* make films. Speaking of which, I'm very excited about what we're going to be talking about today, because I love trash

**Michael:** That's why you're here

**Sam:** I like to pick it up out of the trash and dust it off and put it back up on the shelf where it belongs

**Brennan:** You like to dive into it like Scrooge McDuck?

**Nay:** (sings) "Ducktales, oooh-oooh!"

**Michael:** I love when Nay sings

**Nay:** Oh lord

**Michael:** When she was singing, (sings) "It's raining Brens!"

**Brennan:** This show *is* a musical

**Michael:** Yep

**Sam:** So, yeah. I love movies that age well and movies that don't age well. This movie does both.

**Michael:** I'll go first, since everyone always looks at me. I watched *Scream* this week

**Brennan:** Shocking

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I actually haven't seen the first one in quite a while

**Nay:** In a couple months

**Michael:** Four or five days

**Brennan:** Did it remind you that it's the superior *Scream* movie?

**Michael:** Anyway…

**Nay:** *Whoa*

**Sam:** Hmmm!

**Brennan:** I mean, I love *Scream 2*, by the way, but...

**Michael:** I love them both. It's possible to love them both.

**Brennan:** Yeah, you can love both of your children

**Michael:** It's not, they're not mutually exclusive

**Sam:** It *is* Tea Time

**Nay:** Michael's bisexual for *Scream* and *Scream 2*

**Michael:** Exactly

**Brennan:** The two genders

**Michael:** Right. I watched it, and then I was talking to Chris Landon about it, and we were talking about how the movie itself is so amazing, but the great thing about it I realized this time while watching it, the opening scene with Drew Barrymore could literally be its own short film

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** And it's so fucking perfect. Like the whole movie's perfect, but that opening scene, it just gets me every fucking time. And I pick up little tidbits every time I watch it that I haven't noticed before, like some of the music

**Brennan:** The music is *gorgeous*. Marco Beltrami's music has never been better than in the *Scream* franchise

**Michael:** The score in *Scream* and *Scream 2* are amazing, and those are usually the two scores I listen to when I write. But we got a brand-new TV, which has a really good sound system with it, and I *heard* undercurrents of the score in the movie that I've never noticed before, with the film playing at the same time, and it's just so brilliant, like everything about it is so brilliant. But yeah, I always go back to one of those movies when I am feeling like I just need just a really nice comfort food. So I watched *Scream*

**Brennan:** That's lovely

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. Thank you

**Nay:** I watched *The Act*

**Michael and Brennan:** (delighted gasps)

**Brennan:** Ohhh!

**Nay:** I couldn't wait to tell you

**Michael:** Did you finish it?

**Nay:** Yeah. I finished it in like, a few days

**Michael:** Ohhh, it's *so good*

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** It's so hard to watch. But it's amazing

**Nay:** It is… you know… wow

**Michael:** Right? Just to talk about

**Nay:** Yeah. Just remembering that anyone is capable of anything. And you know what I really loved? I loved how they show you some kind of context that lets you know why these folks are doing what they're doing, and it's just so real-life 'cause you really don't know 'til later. That's when you actually find out things. And I really love how they did that

**Michael:** Yeah, that scene with her father is heartbreaking

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** It's like… oooof

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** They cast that show *perfectly*

**Nay:** Perfectly. Also that goddamn Cinderella dress and wig

**Michael:** I mean that painting

**Nay:** (laughing) Oh my God!

**Michael:** I mean, that was a real painting, too, that they actually had

**Nay:** Wow

**Michael:** And it's like, it's unreal that it's real

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. So, did you enjoy it?

**Nay:** Oh, yeah. I couldn't stop it and I made a couple other people watch it, too

**Michael:** Yeah, yeah. Patricia Arquette is terrifying

**Nay:** Oh my God, *amazing*

**Michael:** So glad you watched

**Nay:** Uh-huh. I knew you would

**Sam:** I wanna jump in--

**Michael:** Have you seen it?

**Sam:** I haven't seen it. Or *Scream*, so I just….

**Nay:** Oh, man!

**Michael:** The thing I love about *The Act* is each season it's gonna be a new, weird "act"

**Nay:** Ohhh, really?

**Michael:** It'll be a crime each season, but they're only gonna do fucked up shit, they're not gonna just do like random crimes

**Brennan:** Okay, season two is gonna be about Idina Menzel's performance art from *Rent* (2005), right?

**Michael:** Something like that (chuckling) Yeah. Or *The Ring Two*? It'll be about that crime? You should watch *The Act*, Sam

**Sam:** I definitely wanna see it

**Michael:** It's *terrifying* in such a non-horror way, right?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Like I had tweeted a couple weeks ago that it's the scariest show on TV right now

**Nay:** It's a serious mindfuck

**Sam:** I saw that, because it's one of the tweets you didn't delete

**Michael:** I always delete tweets

**Nay:** I love a delete. On anything

**Sam:** Same

**Nay:** Fucking delete delete, no matter what

**Michael:** Yeah. Get it away. Get it out of my life.

**Nay:** Do what I want. I'm just gonna die anyway. Fucking delete it

**Michael:** *Yeah*! My Twitter, do what I want, *Sam*

**Michael:** Sam bringing it right away

**Sam:** Speaking of bringing it, *The Guardian* (1990)? Michael and I both had the good fortune of watching *The Guardian*. You were there, at the all-nighter?

**Michael:** (chuckling) Yeah, I was

**Sam:** Well, it wasn't an all-nighter, it was a--

**Michael:** I totally forgot about it. Did you stay the whole time?

**Sam:** I did, until the very last film, which was *H20*, and just 'cause I'd *just seen H20*

**Michael:** Again, so rewatchable

**Sam:** But I want to *highly* recommend this film to you, because--

**Michael:** It's so--

**Brennan:** It's a William Friedkin movie, right?

**Sam:** It *is!*

**Brennan:** Okay

**Sam:** Yes

**Michael:** How did I forget this? It was only two weeks ago

**Sam:** Your face staring blankly hurts because this movie is--

**Michael:** No, that's just my normal face

**Sam:** Your handsome face

**Michael:** Awww!

**Nay:** (softly) Gays

**Sam:** This movie is a straight white couple--

**Nay:** (sarcastically) Oh, fascinating!

**Brennan:** Horrifying

**Sam:** Right, already. Who can afford childcare, so it's obviously way out there. And so they're making a decision about--

**Michael:** But they do talk at one point about how tight money is? Oh, so funny

**Sam:** Right

**Brennan:** They're like, "Money! It's *tight*, right?"

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** "*Tight*."

**Sam:** And they think they're hiring Mary Poppins but they got a tree witch. This movie is *bonkers*

**Michael:** A tree witch. It's insane

**Sam:** The most wild editing. The lead female, Jenny Seagrove, I looked her up. This movie is her runway, every scene is a look

**Brennan:** *Okay*

**Sam:** She constantly acts in front of a fan, and it doesn't matter where she is, she's got full wind

**Michael:** So great

**Sam:** This movie has gruesome deaths, wonky editing and it's like, perfect for Mother's Day, so

**Brennan:** *Okay!*

**Michael:** Yeah, and the guy, the main guy, I forget his name, but he was Kevin Costner's dad in *Field of Dreams* for like the reveal at the end of *Field of Dreams*

**Sam:** My dad in my wet dreams

**Michael:** Yeah, super-dreamy but he's so fucking horrible in the movie

**Sam:** Never wearing a shirt

**Michael:** Never wearing a shirt, always in pajama pants, with no underwear. I kept looking

**Nay:** Wow

**Brennan:** I need to see this movie

**Nay:** (disappointed) *Michael…*

**Michael:** It's *so entertaining*. It's the *dumbest* thing. But it's so amazing to think that Friedkin directed *The Exorcist* (1973) and that

**Brennan:** Friedkin's done a lot of things. He's had a wide career

**Michael:** Yeah, and like ten years later he does *Bug* (2006), which is an amazing movie, so check it out. Nay, you'll *fucking* love it

**Nay:** Okay

**Brennan:** That sounds truly iconic

**Michael:** Brennan, you'll love it too

**Brennan:** Okay. Is it anything like my other favorite movie about ridiculously rich white people *The Hand That Rocks the Cradle*?

**Michael:** Oh my God!

**Sam:** Okay, so side note--

**Michael:** Kinda sorta similar

**Sam:** I'm running it on Friday at my house, with *The Hand That Rocks the Cradle*

**Brennan:** Oh, are you? Oh, perfect!

**Michael:** (chuckling) You're running *The Guardian* too?

**Nay:** Now that's a movie night

**Sam:** I do similar--

**Brennan:** No, it sounds so similar: She's so rich, she can afford to build her own greenhouse *and* hire a nanny. And the dad's also hot in that one

**Sam:** Yes

**Michael:** He is kind of a piece, yeah

**Brennan:** Oh yeah, Matt McCoy--

**Nay:** "A piece". Okay

**Brennan:** With that beard and those chunky sweaters

**Sam:** It's the same film but with more tree witch

**Brennan:** Okay, I'm gonna love it. You're right

**Sam:** The theme I'm doing is, "White Lady Wants a Baby". That's one of my favorite horror tropes

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** Or thriller tropes I should say

**Brennan:** And Julianne Moore is in it, so my recommendation…

**Michael:** I love *The Hand That Rocks the Cradle*

**Nay:** Hell yeah. Me too

**Michael:** All those early nineties thrillers

**Brennan:** Oh yeah. We should do that at some point

**Michael:** That. And *Sleeping with the Enemy*

**Brennan:** Oh, *Sleeping with the Enemy* is *so good*!

**Michael:** It's so good!

**Brennan:** That movie is one hundred fifty percent a slasher movie with no deaths

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Michael:** It really is

**Brennan:** It's so good

**Brennan:** I've been reading. I'm pulling in Nay. I've been reading the book *You*, which the series on Netflix is based off of

**Michael:** Oh, cool!

**Brennan:** It is from 2014. It is written by Caroline Kepnes. I had recently watched season one of the show, so I was like I don't know if I'm gonna enjoy the experience of the book, because y'know, it's roughly the same plot. But I am *loving* the book

**Nay:** Cute

**Brennan:** Just 'cause in terms of an adaptation Lifetime you know, Lifetime'd it up. There's a lot of extraneous characters that are not in the book, it's much more pared down, but also the prose is *spectacular*

**Michael:** Ooh, I love it

**Brennan:** Like the form is what's giving me a reason to read it other than the plot, which I know. I know how it goes. I actually have a segment of the first chapter I wanna share with you

**Michael:** From the audiobook? Or you're gonna read it?

**Brennan:** I'm gonna read it out loud. I mean, please pay me for the audiobook. I'll do it, I'll do it. So in case you don't know, *You* is the story of Joe Goldberg, he works at a bookstore, he becomes obsessed with this woman who is, frankly, *not* that interesting. He kind of projects a lot of his feelings about how a relationship should be *on* to her, and here is the end of the very first chapter after she has bought some books from him and he has kind of imagined it as kind of this grand romantic thing instead of just an actual transaction. "You didn't walk in here for books, Beck. You didn't have to say my name. You didn't have to smile or listen or take me in, but you did. Your signature's on the receipt. This wasn't a cash transaction and it wasn't a coded debit. This was *real*. I press my thumb into the wet ink on your receipt and the ink of Guinevere Beck stains my skin."

**Sam:** *Wow!*

**Michael:** Whoa!

**Sam:** I wanna use my Audible credit on *you*!

**Brennan:** Thank you. It's disgusting. It's a beautifully horrifying piece and I'm really really loving it

**Nay:** Wow

**Michael:** I love the show 'cause it was such trash

**Brennan:** Oh yeah! The show is super--

**Michael:** I wanted *every* character to die in the show

**Brennan:** The book is, even more than the show, very much about how our lives are filtered through pop culture

**Michael:** Oh, cool!

**Brennan:** Basically every chapter kind of takes as its hook, a snippet of song lyrics or a scene from a movie or a scene from a book and it's just talking about all this poisonous lessons that he has internalized, because he thinks he is the hero of his own romantic comedy and he's *horribly* wrong

**Michael:** Right

**Brennan:** And it's really trenchant and observant and it's really really fun. I would really recommend it

**Michael:** Yeah, that's what I liked about the show, is that his character did reference film and TV a lot in his voice over, which I thought was kind of smart. (To Sam) You seen it?

**Sam:** Oh yeah. I couldn't stop

**Michael:** It's such trash. I love it

**Sam:** I started it and *obsessed*

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** And have definitely dated a guy like that. Or have been a guy like that

**Michael:** (laughing) Sam, don't look at me!

**Sam:** (to Michael) *Hiiiii!*

**Sam:** Shall we get into the-- I was gonna say "meat and potatoes" but I'm a vegetarian

**Michael:** Potatoes and potatoes

**Brennan:** Potatoes?

**Sam:** Yeah, all the carbs

**Nay:** The Beyond Meat and potatoes

**Sam:** Should we kick it off with Shady Summaries?

**Michael:** Or do you want the trailer first?

**Brennan:** I'll play the trailer first really quick and then we can launch right into Shady Summaries. Sam, you must not be like a super big fan of us, that's kind of how we run the show

**Sam:** I'm sorry. My bad

**Nay:** Catty!

**(Brennan tries to play the trailer but must sit through an ad first)**

**Brennan:** This is a commercial. This is not promoted by Queerwolf. (chipper) Hey Sam, how's it going?

**Sam:** I'm four feet tall right now

**Brennan:** Ooooh!

**Michael:** (laughs) Don't be! You're amazing

**Brennan:** I didn't mean to cut you down

**Nay:** I mean, sitting down that's pretty tall

**Brennan:** That is true. One thing you need to be aware of on this show is that you will be constantly interrupted, and I'm sorry about that and it's not always gonna be me who does it

**(After the trailer)**

**Brennan:** Oooh, that's so good

**Michael:** It's a *good* trailer!

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** It's good

**Sam:** And a super queer trailer

**Michael:** (chuckling) It's true!

**Nay:** It's true

**Sam:** "The others don't understand you"?

**Michael:** Yeah, it really is!

**Sam:** And I mean, they lay it out: Here's the theme

**Michael:** It's pretty great

**Brennan:** (to Sam) I really regret making fun of you. It was obviously a joke that failed *so hard*. It was my most beautiful self-own that's ever happened, so

**Sam:** Guys, what you didn't hear is the part where I cried, I had to leave the room. We edited it out

**Brennan:** You telekinetically knocked out all of the LaCroix off the table

**Michael:** My coconut LaCroix is on the floor!

**Nay:** Oh, lord

**Brennan:** (as Rachel) "It fell!"

**Nay:** Still tastes the same

**Michael:** It does

**Brennan:** Ew

**Michael:** I love carpet

**Nay:** Me too

**Sam:** This film had a pretty dark backdrop, and that's why I wanna get it out there now--

**Michael:** Do it!

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** It's loosely based on the Spur Posse, which was a huge story in the Nineties and it would be presented very differently now, but at the time it was a group of twenty to thirty dudes who would rate women and their conquests based on a point system, but their victims included-- it was, you know, there was abuse, there was rape, there were children involved

**Michael:** As young as ten, I think I read?

**Brennan:** Oh my God

**Sam:** Yeah. So, it's dark

**Michael:** And they're called the Spur Posse 'cause the guy that started it, his favorite basketball team was the San Antonio Spurs

**Brennan:** Classy

**Nay:** *Wow*

**Michael:** Isn't that crazy?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** It's super gross

**Michael:** The Spurs should sue him

**Nay:** (laughing) Yeah!

**Sam:** And for me, the really gross part is the way they just got to get gigs on talk shows and it just kind of became this presence in TV that… it's not cool. Additionally, this movie is pre-Columbine by a month

**Nay:** Wow

**Sam:** So when looking at the bullying and the violence, thinking about it in terms of like, this movie was in theaters at the time of that tragedy. So when it was released to home video, we're receiving it at a different time

**Michael:** Yeah, Columbine was like four weeks later, right?

**Sam:** Yeah. So, just keeping that on the timeline, that's where this exists, and I think it's easy to see why in a lot of ways it was not as prescient as maybe it could have or should have been, arguably, depending on if you liked it. I loved it

**Brennan:** I did like it. I mean, I've seen it before. Was it a first watch for anyone here?

**Nay:** No

**Michael:** Oh no, I saw it in the movie theater

**Sam:** Same!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I was so stoked. This was back when-- this came out, the "*Scream* trend" had peaked, so this was on the downward slide, but still, any horror movie that played around that time in the theaters I went and saw. Especially teen horror. And it was advertised kind of *Scream*-ish in a way

**Sam:** Oh, for sure

**Michael:** You know? Even though it's not a slasher movie

**Sam:** No, but it does directly rip *Scream* with, "What's your favorite scary movie?" That whole scene

**Michael:** And the phone call, and yeah

**Sam:** The obligatory meta moment of a late-Nineties horror film

**Sam:** But thank you for letting me pick it

**Michael:** Yeah! It's a great first pick

**Sam:** I picked this because I was super obsessed with this when I was in high school. I used to draw Rachel on my notebooks

**Brennan:** Really?

**Nay:** Gay

**Sam:** But it was *not* Rachel, it was me

**Michael:** Did you have the tattoo?

**Sam:** Super obsessed. And the football player whose butt we get to see later--

**Nay:** Yes?

**Sam:** Spoiler alert

**Michael:** Brian walked in on that part. He's like, "Why did they just do that?" I'm like, "Just go in the other room."

**Sam:** We should definitely talk about why they did that

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** And there's a good reason

**Michael:** Okay

**Sam:** But, he looks like my crush, like this all felt so real, except I wasn't out. And so I identified hard with Rachel. Who, like, we follow her journey as a person who is suppressing these feelings, she has a best friend she's very close with. And once she loses that friend, she has a harder time suppressing her identity, and then it becomes more and more visible

**Brennan:** Mmm-hmm. Were you out to yourself yet? Had you sefl-actualized as, "I am a gay person and I'm not telling people," or were you still kind of figuring things out?

**Sam:** I was not figuring things out. I made a decision that that wasn't who I wanted to be

**Brennan:** Okay

**Sam:** And I took kind of dangerous action to make sure I wasn't. And I think that's why-- or destructive, I should say, which maybe is also why this particular story feels so relatable for me and a lot of people

**Brennan:** Absolutely!

**Sam:** Were you?

**Brennan:** Was I?

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Um, briefly. But generally my self-idenity came at a time where I felt safe coming out, so they were kind of happening around the same time. Like me realizing that I was fully a Kinsey six was at the same time I was telling people about it, give or take a month or so?

**Michael:** (amused) "Kinsey six"

**Brennan:** I do remember a time though, I think I told this story on the podcast before… I definitely have. But it was a thing where it was supposedly this "True or False" test where you hold a string with a ring--

**Michael:** Ah, yeah

**Brennan:** And the way it spins is supposed to be like, true or false and I was making it spin to tell me that I wasn't gay and I was like, "I'm great. It's fine."

**Michael:** And you said it just like that?

**Sam:** I did that, but with fucking girls

**Brennan:** (gasps) Mmmm

**Michael:** I did that too

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Me too

**(Everyone laughs)**

**Michael:** Nay…

**Nay:** But with guys

**Brennan:** Oh, okay

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** That too

**Brennan:** Less fun

**Nay:** For real, though. Truly

**Michael:** It depends on who you're asking

**Nay:** It's like in hindsight, you're like, well, I feel like every man I've had sex with, years later when I've told them that I'm gay, they're like, "Oh well, *duh*."

**Michael:** Any girl I had sex with, I was drunk. I don't think I had sex sober with a girl, so. Dark

**Brennan:** I held hands with a girl in a hot tub once

**Michael:** Ooooohhhh! Did it go around school the next day?

**Brennan:** Kind of

**Michael:** Of course it did

**Brennan:** It was in eighth grade

**Nay:** Oh my God, do you remember when holding hands would go around school?

**Brennan:** It was a *big* thing

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** They told us, they were like, "Don't play with fire."

**Brennan:** We broke up a week later.

**Nay:** "Holding hands? Playing with fire."

**Michael:** (chuckles) I always forget about your big Christian background

**Sam:** Sit on that brake stick? Is that what she called it? Playing with fire. I was listening to you, the *Carrie* episode, getting ready, I've heard that before

**Brennan:** Oh, yes!

**Sam:** I love that episode

**Nay:** Me too

**Sam:** And of course Mark was talking about his connection with *Carrie* and seeing it when he wasn't ready to see that part of himself, so I like that you asked that, because I think that's how this was for me

**Brennan:** That's really interesting. Great question, me

**Sam:** Yeah

**Sam:** This movie, I was telling Brennan on the way in, I went down a fucking rabbit hole today

**Michael:** On *Carrie 2*?

**Sam:** And I want to share it with you

**Michael:** Yeah, because I did some research and I couldn't find shit (chuckles)

**Sam:** Listen

**Brennan:** (dramatically) I have sources!

**Michael:** What search engine did you use?

**Sam:** I called Katt Shea… no.

**Brennan:** She is very present on Twitter

**Sam:** I asked Jeeves

**Brennan:** Slide into those DMs

**Michael:** She is!

**Sam:** She seems like somebody who would give a *good* interview. And I say that because of what I've read--

**Nay:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** But also listening to her commentary on the 2015 Blu-ray

**Michael:** Oh, *Carrie 2*?

**Sam:** Yeah. And it is redacted as fuck. So it's like she'll start saying something--

**Michael:** It's like seven different tones of voice in one sentence?

**Sam:** Well no, they just pull out the audio completely in places--

**Brennan:** Oh fuck

**Sam:** And just when it gets juicy

**Michael:** That's insane

**Sam:** And that's what sent me down this journey. I was watching it with Laverne and she was like, "Are you sure that's not just our Blu-ray player?" So if it was, sorry, but I found it (indistinct). Anyway, it started out with commentary from David DeCoteau

**Brennan:** Oh yeah?

**Michael:** Yes. Okay

**Sam:** Which, I'm already like, "That's queer as fuck. Great." And she talked about how when she first read the screenplay, she wasn't stoked about it. She got it on, you've probably heard about this, but she got it on a Thursday because she was called in to replace that director

**Michael:** Yeah, he--

**Sam:** The director of *The Substitute*… Robert Mandel

**Michael:** Yes. He directed *School Ties*

**Sam:** *Yes!*

**Brennan:** Oh!

**Sam:** And so she was called in to replace him, she read the screenplay once, took a meeting, read it again and was already in production by Monday morning.

**Michael:** He had shot like half the movie, too

**Sam:** So, yeah. She gets to set and she's like, not gonna match the materials so she decided I'm just gonna reshoot everything that he shot

**Michael:** And she had to shoot that all in two weeks, right?

**Sam:** Yes. Because they said they wouldn't give her any more budget or any more time

**Nay:** Holy shit

**Sam:** So she just did everything again. And she's like total-- she did Roger Corman films, so it's like School of Corman, just fucking nailed it

**Brennan:** Oh yeah

**Sam:** But she was in there, this is where she talked about it gets interesting on the Blu-ray, where it gets quiet. She said that she wasn't allowed to revise the script, but then she describes herself as staying up all night revising the script and then sleeping between shots. And there are conflicting parts of the interview where I've read online that she'll say yeah, she didn't do any revising but she was allowed to, quote, "make little changes to the scenes". So I, being the little queer that I am need to know what those changes are and if they're what I think they are, because I'm reading too much into everything and they *totally* are

**Michael:** Well, I wonder what-- but she re-shot everything, but had the same material to work with?

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I wonder what the big difference was

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** So, if you are interested--

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** The shooting script *is* out there, online

**Michael:** Oh it is

**Sam:** And I read it. And I also took some pretty detailed notes

**Michael:** Is it different than what we see?

**Sam:** It is *exactly* the-- it's like exactly the same except for *tiny* changes that make this movie queer

**Michael:** Okay

**Sam:** Like it's tiny, tiny things

**Michael and Brennan:** Okay

**Nay:** You know what, Katt?

**Michael:** Thank you, Katt

**Sam:** Yeah, I see it, I'm here for it

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Like that whole locker room tampon thing? Her addition. The forty-five butts we get to see? That's her addition. You know, she took, she added her male gaze perspective, her perspective on the male gaze to it. What's interesting is, the scenes that hit, that if you look at the deleted scenes, I feel like they're scenes she was obviously going to delete anyways. 'Cause it's like a double. Like instead of the locker room scene it's like this dude eating meat, getting pressured to do it--

**Michael:** Eating meat?

**Sam:** It's the team's-- yeah, he's just got this big steak, but legit

**Michael:** Okay

**Sam:** And they're pressuring him into doing it. But she just like, she took the *bullshit* and replaced it with actual queer and feminist subtext. Or explicit material, depending on what you're looking at

**Michael:** Right. Yeah

**Sam:** I have some examples

**Nay:** Yes

**Sam:** If you wanna hear them

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Sam:** Okay… and this is what makes it to me, a queer film, this clip is why it's explicitly a queer film

**Nay:** (to Sam) I love your hands

**Sam:** Oh, thank you

**Nay:** They're just all over the room right now

**Sam:** When I get excited about stuff I move around a lot

**Nay:** Just fly away

**Sam:** I might

**Nay:** I love it

**(The "She speaks [on the] bus" clip is played)**

**RACHEL**: She speaks! Her mouth opens and sounds come out! She didn't call all weekend, I figured her voice was gone.

**Sam:** I'm a needy bitch. I've been this person, like you're all pissed at your best friend because they didn't call you back--

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm

**Sam:** But it's actually because you're gay and in love with them

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** Or just in love with them

**Nay and Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** Too true. Nailed it. Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** The original script is, "She speaks, she opens her mouth and words come out, the sounds are words." That's it

**Nay:** *Ohh*

**Sam:** So Katt added, "She didn't call all weekend. I figured her voice was gone."

**Brennan:** Oooh, yeah

**Michael:** There's already so much difference, yeah

**Sam:** It's a completely different moment

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Then when they do the the (kiss) thing where they kiss their tattoos?

**Michael:** So steamy

**Sam:** Those tattoos, they're. that's not part of the ritual in the shooting script, it's just the kiss. So, even though there was like a subtle tattoo reference, like she does have the tattoo in the thing, (Katt) puts it in a scene in a way that lets us know they're talking about this other dude that (Lisa's) fucking and that (Rachel) missed her, and she's super bummed about that. "By the way, we're still BFFs, right? We still have matching tattoos even though we're what, sixteen."

**Brennan:** Yeah, in a lot of the stuff you've mentioned, in terms of like the asses, in terms of the tattoos, that's not stuff that *would've* been needed to be written into the script, that's like when you're interpreting Shakespeare, like when you're like, "We're gonna do *Othello* in the 22nd century with robots or whatever."

**Sam:** *Yes!!!*

**Brennan:** Stuff that's completely outside of the text--

**Sam:** Absolutely!

**Brennan:** That she can just sneak in there visually, which is really interesting

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Yes!

**Michael:** I mean, that scene in the locker room where they're fighting, I don't remember there being that many butts. And there's a lot of butts in that scene

**Brennan:** (whispering) So many butts

**Michael:** So many big butts

**Sam:** Like a lot of butts, and nobody's in a hurry to put their towel on

**Michael:** Nobody! Dudes are sitting there talking with the towel placed gently over their genitals

**Nay:** Hangin' brain

**Michael:** And just hangin' out talkin'. The whole time they were fighting in that scene? There's a dude butt out, like ten feet away, acting like he has no idea what's going on away from him. He's just talking to his buddy naked

**Nay:** He was just naked. Some of the most homophobic men do the gayest shit

**Michael:** Uh-huh!

**Nay:** You think that's not gay?

**Michael:** Locker rooms, aggro locker rooms are some of the gayest shit

**Nay:** Absolutely

**Michael:** Kids in my high school, they used to slip and slide in the shower, the football team would slide around in the shower together

**Brennan:** That is *exactly* what I was gonna say of a story of someone whose name I will not reveal, but who told me a similar story of just sliding and slamming into people just completely naked in the shower

**Michael:** Yeah. Yeah. And the wrestling team used to do some really *nasty* shit that involved insertion

**Sam:** I want this podcast

**Brennan:** Okay…

**Michael:** Not body parts, but--

**Sam:** Okay, but legit though--

**Michael:** Into. Each. Other.

**Sam:** Men in a homosocial environment, presumably straight men… engaging in homoerotic behavior can do so and get away with it by being misogynistic

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** So I think a really good layout of that is that tampon scene. He's like, he takes the character, it's like the football player, is it Kyle or, they all have like Kyle-Chad--

**Michael:** Mark

**Brennan:** Mark Bing, because that's the other friend's name we get here

**Sam:** Oh God

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Yes. So he makes Mark--

**Michael:** Played by Dylan Bruno

**Sam:** *Yes!* What a fucking stud

**Brennan:** That is a name

**Sam:** Let me, actually I'll just tell you.

**Michael:** (Dylan Bruno's) voice?

**Sam:** The coach goes, "You two ladies there gossiping?" And he goes, "No sir." And (the coach) goes, " Excellent. Then you can give me fifty at the field."

**Brennan:** Boring!

**Sam:** Do you have the clip?

**Brennan:** I do have the clip

**Sam:** This is what's in the movie

**Michael:** This is gay as shit

**(The clip from the movie is played.)**

**COACH:** Mister Bing, on your feet

**Brennan:** This (indistinct)

**COACH:** Turn around and drop trou

**MARK:** What?

**Michael:** "Turn around and drop trou"? (chuckles)

**COACH:** You heard me. Drop trou, shorts and all. Now, son!!! If you wanna stay starter on this team. C'mon son, you undress like a girl. Let's go!

**Brennan:** Weird

**Michael:** And why are you in a jockstrap with a (indistinct)?

**COACH:** After that half-ass block I just wanted to see if you maybe had a tampon string hanging between your legs.

**OTHER PLAYERS:** (Laughter and jeers)

**Sam:** Ah, see we're all straight because we hate women together! And you're not a woman!

**Michael:** "And wearing a tampon means you're less than? Uhhhh…"

**Nay:** (as a straight cis white guy) "Huh-huh, periods."

**Sam:** That wasn't in the shooting script. Way to go, Katt. I love that

**Michael:** I mean, it's pretty--

**Sam:** Great butt

**Michael:** That was actually the moment where Brian actually came in the room and saw it happen. He made fun of it but was then like, "That probably happens."

**Sam:** Oh yeah

**Nay:** What specifically happens?

**Michael:** Like a coach almost sexually harassing one of his players in front of all the other kids

**Nay:** Oh yeah. Yeah

**Michael:** 'Cause that's a way to emasculate somebody, and I'm sure that happens in locker rooms all the time

**Nay:** Oh yeah. I'm sure, too

**Michael:** Anyway

**Brennan:** (defeated) Yaaaay!

**Sam:** And I don't wanna say that I don't know this. I wasn't there. This is just me, trying to be an internet sleuth, and who knows? Maybe I have no idea what happened, or who put what where, but it seems like--

**Michael:** I mean her fingerprints are on it for sure

**Sam:** Yeah

**Brennan:** I'm just saying, that's what Katt Shea does with any material that she has

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Michael:** She elevates it

**Brennan:** Or perchance, have you seen the movie *Stripped to Kill*? From the Eighties?

**Michael:** No

**Sam:** No

**Brennan:** That movie is--

**Nay:** It's on Amazon, right?

**Michael:** And don't yell at me on Twitter--

**Brennan:** No, why-- okay, if you're mad about that? Chill. I'll make him watch it. But *Stripped to Kill* is a slasher movie set at a strip club and you think you know *exactly* what you're getting from that concept. But it *was* written and directed by Katt Shea, she was Katt Shea-Ruben at the time. But she, she lost a bet and had to go to a strip club at one point and she was dreading it. But when she went, she realized that stripping is an artform and she made that movie to highlight the artform

**Michael:** That's awesome

**Brennan:** So there's like full six-minute scenes of *beautfiul*--

**Michael:** Like dancing and performances?

**Brennan:** Yeah, stripper routines that are completely avant garde and strange and beautiful and interesting. And the slasher movie part is fine. But it's kind of a celebration of the art--

**Michael:** I wanna see this

**Sam:** This sounds incredible

**Michael:** This does sound incredible

**Brennan:** And that's just kind of what she does with what she has

**Michael:** Queer enough to do here?

**Brennan:** Actually, yeah

**Michael:** Okay, let's definitely do it. I'll watch it for the show

**Brennan:** You know, it's the Eighties, there's some iffy stuff about it

**Michael:** That's fine

**Brennan:** But we could definitely talk about it

**Nay:** I heard her tell that story at that triple feature--

**Michael:** Oh, that's right. You saw *Poison Ivy* and--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** (sighs wistfully)

**Nay:** And it's funny 'cause she first started talking about how she had lost the bet and was like, "Ugh, I have to go to a strip club." Like wow, straight women are so annoying. *Then* she kept talking and I'm like, "Maybe you're not."

**Michael:** She used, like learned from it, it sounds like it was a big--

**Brennan:** Yeah, she was open

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** (Gurgle burps) That was a weird noise that came out of my mouth

**Nay:** It's that damn Coconut LaCroix

**Brennan:** LaCroix, yeah

**Michael:** But it sounds like she took a tiny moment in her life and made something from it

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** That's pretty cool

**Nay:** I want everyone to have this knowledge of dancers, you know?

**Michael:** Yeah. It's work

**Brennan:** Also, she had a new movie in theaters this year. She directed that new *Nancy Drew* movie with the girl from *Stranger Things*

**Michael:** Oh that's right! Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Ooooh!

**Michael:** Nancy Drew making a comeback

**Brennan:** It's already on Redbox, so that's probably not great for her, but check it out and give her the money from Redbox

**Michael:** Can we discuss just a little bit of the plot and how it all kicks off with Lisa's essentially jumping off the roof?

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** I want a *whole* episode for Lisa. 'Cause she deserves it

**Michael:** (sighs) So good

**Sam:** She dies twelve minutes into the movie. Points for acting

**Michael:** I know. Mena Suvari

**Nay:** Damn

**Sam:** Mena Suvari. Gorgeous. Great performance

**Michael:** Over Zachary Ty Bryan? Uch.

**Sam:** *Well,* come on. He was some of our crushes

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** You know, I was thinking about that yesterday and I was like, "What were people in the Nineties thinking?"

**Brennan:** You were like, "He does nothing for me."

**Sam:** We were thinking--

**Nay:** I was thinking about him

**Sam:** He has beautiful eyes--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** And he's not JTT

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** And you needed the alternative brother--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** And the other one was too young

**Nay:** Yes!

**Michael:** He looked like he smelled

**Sam:** You had to pick one!

**Nay:** Yes, you did have to pick one. Everyone, I don't know how old you are, but everyone my age was JTT

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** Like wanted JTT, but I was like, "I want Brad." In the same way everyone liked Zack Morris and I was like, "I like Slater--"

**Michael:** Slater?

**Sam:** Yep

**Nay:** And Jessie Spano

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Nay:** Both of them

**Michael:** They were the more interesting couple

**Nay:** Yeah. For sure

**Sam:** How would you summarize a little bit of the plot, then? Or would you…?

**Michael:** I just wanna know like, the, I always instantly roll my eyes as soon as a female character either kills herself or does something violent over a douche. And in the movie, for me, I really enjoy this movie, I think there is some good statements in it, but it also-- it's hard for me to get into something deeply when it starts off that way, you know?

**Sam:** This movie is as flawed as it is perfect

**Michael:** I mean, yeah

**Sam:** And so, this is a great example of where it goes *so fucking wrong*

**Michael:** I mean, it starts at an eleven (laughs) with that. You know?

**Sam:** Yeah. Also, just to throw it out there, thirty-three seconds of the trailer are (Lisa's) suicide.

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** That trailer's only two minutes long

**Michael:** Well, they show the suicide like, six times in the movie, too

**Sam:** Yeah, you get a flashback later--

**Michael:** They flashback to it

**Sam:** You get a dream. They give you the suicide from *every* angle

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** (To Sam) Do you know any of the other backstory? Because I know they were initially going to shoot this in 1996 under the title, "The Curse", and I can't figure out: Does that mean it was not a *Carrie* sequel at the time? Did it not have anything to do with *Carrie* at the beginning?

**Sam:** From what I read, it was--

**Michael:** It was always *Carrie*?

**Sam:** Yeah. It was "The Curse: Carrie 2" and then what they shot when they were--

**Brennan:** (chuckles) That title is still so backwards. Sorry

**Sam:** My favorite title was the production one: "Carrie 2: Say You're Sorry"

**Michael:** Oh, that is a great title

**Nay:** Oh, *yes!*

**Sam:** I am living for that

**Nay:** *Yes!*

**Sam:** I wanna see "Hello Mary Lou II: Say You're Sorry"

**Nay:** *Yes! Yes!* "Mommy Stees: Say You're Sorry" I die for it

**Sam:** Yes.

**Sam:** But Lisa's like a tragic character

**Michael:** She is

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** But also tragically written. She has no backstory, nothing going on. Also, she needs a Trapper Keeper, because when she went off that roof, it was papers everywhere

**Michael:** Yeah, why didn't she take 'em with her?

**Nay:** So mean (laughs)

**Sam:** And then Rachel comes up and touches her *blood*…

**Nay:** Yeah. All *right*...

**Michael:** And all those kids are like, hanging out by the car just standing there--

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And I'm like, "Would people do that?"

**Nay:** Yes.

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** They would pull out their phones, and--

**Michael:** Now, yeah, you're right

**Sam:** They'd pull out their phones, they'd touch her blood

**Michael:** They'd get their camera--

**Nay:** Someone would touch her blood

**Michael:** Like that kid with the camera?

**Nay:** I think people really will reach out and touch someone else's blood

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** It happened to me one time

**Michael:** *What?!?*

**Sam:** *Whoa*

**Nay:** I was-- first mistake, I went for a hike, okay? That was where I fucked up to begin with, all right? Go for this hike, me and my friend, we get lost, run across some random white man up in these mountains in Griffith (Park) and he's like, "I can show y'all a way," and I turned to my friend and was like, "I don't know about this. The sun's going down…"

**Michael:** I just love hearing your stories!

**Nay:** The sun's going down, and I had just watched, not *The Hills Have Eyes* but something where you just wouldn't want some random man in the mountains to lead you to safety. You're like, "Yeah, right. You're taking me to your lair. I already know."

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** So anyway, he does *eventually* get us back to the parking area

**Michael:** Oh, that's nice

**Nay:** But, in order to get back on the trail there was literally, not just a cliff, a cliff is too, that sounds too serious than I mean. It was probably a six-foot drop-off, but not a cliff. But as someone who's not quite six feet tall, it's tall enough

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** And the only *literal* way to get down was to jump. There were no other--

**Sam:** No

**Nay:** So of course I kind of like half-slide half-jump down like a dumbass and I scraped--

**Michael:** You scraped your knees up or something?

**Nay:** I scraped my elbows up--

**Brennan:** Oh God

**Nay:** And like my back. And he turns to me and he reaches out and he's like, (creepy voice) "You're bleeding," (normal voice) and he *touches* my bloody-ass elbow!

**Sam and Brennan:** (groans of disgust)

**Nay:** And you know, I lost it on my friend. I was like, "See? I fucking told you!! He's crazy!!!"

**Brennan:** Yeah!

**Michael:** "No more hiking!"

**Nay:** Yeah. "EVER!!!!"

**Brennan:** I was getting so tense during that story 'cause I was like, "I know he's gonna be the toucher, I know he's gonna be the toucher…"

**Nay:** Yeah, no, exactly!

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Nay:** The toucher

**Sam:** And then he licked it up

**Nay:** (creepy voice) "You're bleeding…"

**Brennan:** Oh God! That's so E.T.

**Nay:** Yeah, that's true

**Michael:** (creepy voice) "Your bloody elbow"

**Brennan:** "Whose car is this?"

**Sam:** My favorite part of that moment (after Lisa kills herself) is when the principal gets on the, no, it was Sue Snell, she gets on the thing--

**Michael:** Yeah, because the guidance counselor always makes the announcements (laughs)

**Sam:** "There's been a death. At one PM today we're gonna have a moment of silence." Whoa, they moved on fast! Like that body's still out there. Rachel's running through the woods

**Michael:** The other thing-- okay, we, I think you and I texted on this briefly yesterday

**Sam:** Bates High

**Michael:** What is this school's *hours*, and what days of the week do they go?

**Nay:** (laughing) Yeah. And curriculum. Like, when…?

**Michael:** Well, they go like, Monday, Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and then they have Friday off? (laughs)

**Sam:** And they don't get any time off for *death*

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** Wild

**Michael:** 'Cause that's-- so, I need to know, because it's so stupid

**Brennan:** Well--

**Michael:** They're on the bus, they get to school, (Lisa's) in a dark hallway for some reason--

**Brennan:** It's the *stroke* of midnight when she's getting her books out of the locker

**Michael:** It's so dark! And then she kills herself, and they're like, "At one o'clock…" This day has been fifteen hours long--

**Brennan:** People are like, gardening on the roof?

**Michael:** *Right!*

**Sam:** During class!

**Michael:** I guess it was a-- (sighs)

**Sam:** No, because there's two people, it's *not* a gardening class. Those are hobbyists

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** (sighs) It's so confusing. And there's like no protective layer around the garden club? And then there's kids everywhere when she kills herself. So is no one in class?

**Brennan:** It's everyone's free period

**Michael:** Yeah!

**Brennan:** Study hall globally

**Nay:** You honestly got kind of lucky, it wasn't that tall of a building

**Michael:** (shocked laughter)

**Nay:** Like you died fast

**Sam:** Honestly

**Nay:** Like, you know, that's, you took a risk, girl

**Michael:** That shot hitting the car is awesome though

**Nay:** Yeah, it is

**Michael:** It's like a really good shot

**Sam:** The one from the inside?

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** (groans in disgust)

**Michael:** And her bouncing off of it? *Oooof*.

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** So, from what I heard in the commentary, that one from the inside shot was *not* hers, it was not Katt's, that's like leftover material

**Michael:** It was like an insert left over from the other guy?

**Sam:** But maybe that was not that black and white

**Sam:** Friends, I would love to share with you a song about Lisa's death, if I can have your ear for a moment

**Michael:** (singing) "Give me a song…"

**Sam:** There is a *The Rage: Carrie 2* musical out there

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** This'll be, I think... if it happens this fall it'll be the fourth annual if I'm not mistaken? But a trans writer, Preston Max Allen, who's brilliant, wrote *We Are the Tigers*, it's on iTunes right now I think

**Michael:** Oh cool

**Sam:** But it's-- he does great work, and I love *Carrie 2*, so yeah, this is a taste of what that is

**Brennan:** This is a track titled, "Lisa's Reckoning"

**(The track is played)**

**LISA:** (singing) I guess it's time for me to go. I wasn't really in this show. My suicide's not justified. My development was low. This song's already longer than my screentime, I guess that means I'm supposed to die now. Goodbye now. Wait, no. Since you have a song here, so let's take time to look at me for once because I just want mine since I got dumped off-screen… **(The track fades out)**

**Sam:** It goes from there, but it becomes a real song, it gives her the moment that she deserves, and we love that

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Yeah! It's so funny that she mentions that she got dumped off-screen, 'cause you totally don't realize that. I forgot about that

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** It is a lot, It's a *big* meal the first time, to connect all those dots. And (Lisa's) pretty

**Brennan:** Okay…

**Michael:** No, but my point is they're all talkin' about what a frumpy dump and stuff she is

**Sam:** Oh my God I know

**Nay:** Because that's how it goes!

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** Yeah. Everyone thinks they're ugly and someone else thinks you're pretty, and someone out here thinks Beyoncé's ugly, you know what I mean?

**Michael:** Like they've got a chance (chuckles)

**Nay:** Sure

**Sam:** Okay, speaking of ugly, and I know this is shallow, but those outfits on those cheerleaders on the front lawn? They were all dressed like moms!

**Michael:** Yeah, they were. They all looked like mom jeans. Like it looked like an SNL commercial

**Nay:** And not in a hot way

**Sam:** I was around in 1999, we did not, we were not, like hot people were not dressing like that, right?

**Michael:** And why didn't they just put them in uniforms? Movies have cheerleaders wearing their uniforms all day long

**Nay:** Yes. 1999, it wasn't mom jeans, you had like a boot leg cut--

**Michael:** Yeah, they did have boot leg

**Nay:** You been tuckin' those boot leg cuts into the calf-length boot

**Sam:** Straight up

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** The thin-ass cardigans? (chuckles)

**Sam:** There was a woman behind the lead cheerleader who was like six feet tall, convinced she was a teacher and then she started doing those moves and I was like, "Oh."

**Michael:** Same. I saw her too, I was like, "Whose aunt is that?"

**Nay:** Okay, me in high school. Like, how old is that bitch?

**Brennan:** This is all while that ska song is playing, right? In the beginning?

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Nay, my favorite thing you've ever said is, "With Black girls you can't tell if they're nine or fifty-five." (laughs)

**Nay:** Yes. Try me. (laughs)

**Sam:** So, speaking of teachers, what did you all think of Sue Snell?

**Michael:** Tragic

**Brennan:** She certainly was trying. Her best? Maybe not. I really liked the moment when Rachel first displayed her telekinetic powers

**Michael:** Same. It's cool

**Brennan:** That moment of recognition and of like, you can *see* that character's entire past in her eyes

**Sam:** Yes

**Brennan:** It's a really good moment

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm. It's true

**Michael:** It's also a great moment when the snow globe breaks and she throws herself back against the wall

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** *Hates* snow globes

**Michael:** Terrified. But *Sue*

**Nay:** So what did each of you try to move with your powers when this movie came out?

**Sam:** My CD player, I used to try and pick the songs on shuffle

**Brennan:** Oooh

**Sam:** Like I'd hit shuffle and then I would hit play. Yeah

**Brennan:** Oooh! That's *so* good

**Michael:** I used to try to move my beverages closer to me when I was lying in bed

**Nay:** I dig that. Practical. Practical magic

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm. I was in college then, so it was probably a beer

**Nay:** Yes. Mom powers. "Bring me my purse!"

**Michael:** "Give me that beer!" My Chapstick!

**Brennan:** Did you try to move anything, Nay?

**Nay:** *Yes.* Especially after *Matilda* came out

**Brennan:** Oh, hell yeah

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**Nay:** I was trying to pour some Rice Krispies from across the room

**Michael:** (chuckles) *Matilda*

**Nay:** Just disappointed

**Brennan:** For me, I was not gonna be allowed in to see *Carrie 2* when it came out. But--

**Michael:** How old were you?

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** I was-- when did this come out? Ninety-eight? Ninety-nine?

**Michael:** Ninety-nine. (You were) like four?

**Brennan:** I was five

**Nay:** (baby talk voice) Oh my God, little baby!

**Brennan:** I didn't even *have* a driver's license

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Brennan:** (defeated, softly) Yaaaaay… But yeah. My big thing, probably around that time was the *Animorphs*. And I remember spending like all of storytime in elementary school trying desperately to turn into an ant

**Michael:** Oh!

**Nay:** Awww!

**Michael:** Awww!

**Brennan:** I don't know why

**Michael:** To hide

**Nay:** Did *Antz* come out then too? *Antz* and *Bug's Life*?

**Brennan:** Oh my God--

**Michael:** *Antz* came out in Ninety-nine, I think

**Sam:** Ninety-eight

**Brennan:** You had to have *touched* the ant in order to have acquired its essence

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** And I'd touched ants before

**Nay:** True

**Brennan:** I was like, "If it's anything, it's gonna be this! I've never touched a tiger." Anyway

**Michael:** But Sue was so tragic, because I get why they wanted her to come back, they wanted a *direct* connection to the first film. But they give her such a sad, like, in-between movie one and movie two. She has no family

**Sam:** Nothing

**Michael:** She's back at her high school 'cause why the fuck would you go and work at the high school that caused all the trauma in your life twenty-three years ago, and is the worst, and granted, it's a new school, but your entire history is wrapped up in this *event* that happened when you were sixteen or seventeen years old. So no family. It sounded like, am I correct or incorrect in that it sounds like she did some time in a mental hospital

**Brennan:** Yeah, at Arkham

**Sam:** Yeah, she was at Arkham. By the way, this movie exists in the *DC Universe*, so--

**Michael:** I was gonna say, is she like the Penguin's mom or something?

**Brennan:** Should I be really glasses-pushing nerd right now?

**Michael:** Yes please

**Brennan:** It's a *Lovecraft* reference

**Michael:** Got it

**Brennan:** They're both, like Batman and *Carrie 2* are referencing the same universe situation

**Michael:** Ohhhhhh! Wow! Okay.

**Sam:** I just wanna believe

**Brennan:** So *actually*…

**Nay:** I don't know what anyone's talking about

**Michael:** I know what you're talking about

**Brennan:** Arkham Asylum is a big thing in the Batman universe, that's where he sends all the villains

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah. Which clearly is, didn't you know it's a reference to Lovecraft?

**Sam:** No, I love and respect that reference

**Brennan:** The only thing I know about Batman

**Michael:** I do, too. It's great. I love learning new things

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** I'm rejecting it. Sue Snell was in there with the Joker. That's it

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** No, it's consistent

**Michael:** But (Sue's) story is kind of tragic, and then they kill her

**Sam:** And her death is *so* sudden and just a waste--

**Michael:** It's unnecessary

**Sam:** And a lot of her character is that way, she moves the plot along in all the right places. She does have one moment I like, and it's when that dude is like, "Are you sure you're just not trying to save a girl from twenty years ago?"

**Michael:** That's a great scene

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** It's such a good moment of like, people speak up about abuse--

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** And you get gaslit

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** Because he's not wrong, she would feel that way after something like that twenty years ago

**Michael:** She's trying to give herself a second chance

**Sam:** Yeah. And that to me felt so real

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** Unlike everything else about her character

**Michael:** I mean it's ridiculous considering you know, the stuff that they have her do, but she *is*, she gives a pretty decent performance

**Sam:** She does

**Michael:** So there were actually moments where even when they go to the old burning high school, that you kind of appreciate the scenes with her and Rachel. And I kind of left the movie, not left, but turned the movie off, finished the movie this time and was kind of hoping, like thinking about how interesting a movie could have been if it was just the two of them. Or if this story was just centered around the two of them and maybe not with Rachel in high school, and what you could've gained from their relationship being the center of the film.

**Sam:** Mmm

**Nay:** Hmmm

**Sam:** Instead you get a teacher *kidnapping* a kid from high school

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** "Let's just drive to another town!"

**Michael:** "You're gonna come with me."

**Brennan:** That's so very *Scream* the MTV series where, "We can just leave, right?"

**Sam:** That's how that works

**Michael:** And that, you could feel that while watching *Carrie 2*, was the *Scream* fingerprints were all over it by focusing on all these high school kids and trying to be funny and the interesting movie was kind of the B-plot with Sue and Rachel

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm. I love (Sue's) quiz though, when she's like trying to be subtle

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Sam:** I relate to that. Just not having any sort of subtlety

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** (to Brennan) And you have a clip of that and I think we should just play it

**Michael:** I like this clip

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, it's like a "True or False" test

**(Brennan plays the clip)**

**SUE:** Answer "True" or "False. Again, "Sometimes my thoughts assume the form of a giant insect."

**RACHEL:** False

**SUE:** "If you want to play the piano well, you have to practice."

**RACHEL:** True

**SUE:** "Large furry animals crawl on my face every night while I sleep."

**RACHEL:** True. (beat) I have a dog.

**Michael:** (chuckling) So nice

**SUE:** Sometimes I can move things with my mind.

**Michael:** That's the music!

**RACHEL:** You can't make me do this

**Michael:** It's scary now

**SUE:** Sit down. I'm just trying to help.

**RACHEL:** You're not my mother!

**Sam:** (amused) Just zero to sixty

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** Yeah

**Nay:** "Let's just throw this one in."

**Sam:** "Are you telekinetic"?

**Michael:** (laughs) She's not gonna be so caught off-guard she goes, "Yes. I-- whoop, didn't mean to say that!"

**Sam:** "True or False, Rachel?"

**Nay:** I was like, the first time I went to Planned Parenthood back in the day, this was like fifteen years ago, and their questionnaire was like, "Name, Address, Have you ever hooked up with anyone from the internet?" I went, "Wow." And that many years ago, I felt guilty about putting "Yes". I felt like so-- I guess it wasn't quite fifteen, I'm being wild with that. Not that long, ten, twelve, I dunno. But--

**Michael:** But isn't it funny to think, because there was, like people would shame people for meeting people on the internet

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** And then it was people on dating sites, and then it was people on apps

**Sam:** If that quiz was today people would be like, "Have you met people from the internet?" And they'd be like, "Today?"

**Nay:** Yeah. "In the last twenty-four hours?"

**Brennan:** "One drove me here."

**Michael:** Well, when Brian and I started dating, we met on Scruff four years ago, people would kind of make fun of us for meeting on Scruff, but now people love it when we tell them that

**Nay:** Hell yeah

**Michael:** You know, how fast it can change, but at the same time it's like, "Fuck you!"

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** I remember I had a friend once be like, "But you don't know him…" and not just Brian, but if I hooked up from an app or went on a date from an app, it's like, "You're just meeting these guys that you meet on an app." I'm like, "You're meeting people drunk at two-thirty in the morning at a *bar*. What's like-- what I'm doing is probably safer."

**Nay:** Yeah. Nobody knows anybody.

**Sam:** Nobody knows anybody

**Nay:** Exactly!

**Michael:** Not to shame anybody that picks up someone in a bar, but I was just--

**Nay:** Right

**Brennan:** It's not that different

**Michael:** Glass houses, girl

**Sam:** If I could order Postmates all the time, I would. Don't shame me for ordering in

**Nay:** For real

**Michael:** You know, Postmates and Grindr, combine the two because that's the shit right there. That would make people a lot of money

**Nay:** Sounds like a movie I've seen

**Michael:** Yeah, and just donuts on dicks? (laughs)

**Brennan:** What movie?

**Nay:** You know, where the delivery guy shows up and you fuck him

**Brennan:** Oh, a porn movie. That's the joke, I get it now

**Sam:** Speaking of technology, my burning question watching this movie was like, "*How* did teens ruin each other's lives before phones?"

**Brennan:** Look at *Carrie 2*

**Michael:** Depends on how much salt you were-- (chuckles)

**Sam:** Back then it was so much work!

**Nay:** Passing notes, okay?

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Michael:** Passing notes, prank calls, ding-dong ditch

**Brennan:** Throwing bricks through your window

**Michael:** Throwing bricks through a window. It would get violent

**Sam:** Also, when they call (Rachel) a "dyke" in that scene--

**Nay:** Yes

**Sam:** Totally not in the script that I read

**Michael:** *Love* that

**Sam:** They *did* call her, she does refer to herself as being a dyke in the drive-through

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I love that

**Sam:** That was something. But *that*, and Katt Shea added, or I presume she added what followed next 'cause it wasn't there, those moments where she's lovingly looking at those photos of her and her friend

**Nay:** (softly) *Yeah*

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Of her and Lisa? And then she lovingly strokes the photo? That's a *long* moment

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Not scripted

**Nay:** Mmmmm

**Sam:** So I think (Katt Shea) took those little kernels, and no, I'm not just trying to backtrack with this queer stuff but here it is, you plant it there. And then later, during this house assault which feels pretty *gnarly* and I think filming it in (Rachel's) point of view is claustrophobic--

**Michael:** It is!

**Sam:** When you hear that word in the fray, it becomes something else

**Nay:** It's true

**Michael:** It does, because it's violent and it's homophobic and it also, to me in his place it comes from a point of like, "Only women that wouldn't want this? Is a dyke."

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** Mmmm

**Michael:** You know?

**Nay:** Zero to one hundred again

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** But I like that she took such a small kernel in a script and kind of made a little runner out of it

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** Absolutely

**Nay:** You know, it's words like that-- well, I don't know how you feel about words like that, but if someone happens to call me a "dyke" to be mean, it's like of course you feel the hatred coming from them so that can make you feel a certain kind of way, but in the same moment, I'm like, "You see me though, don't you?"

**Michael:** (laughs) *Woooow*

**Nay:** It's like one time--

**Michael:** That's actually so true

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** The front of my car is actually a little fucked up, and men love to be at a red light and be like, "Oh, I can fix that." So at a red light one time, this man looks over at the front of my car, he's like, "You know I got an auto body shop…" he's like, "Sir! Sir!" And I turn 'cause someone's yelling and I'm like, "Oh, you *are* talking to me. Okay, fine. Whatever. I don't care what you think I am." He's like, "I have a auto body shop, I can fix that for you." And I was just in the right *mood* to where my response was, "You should de-gender your customer service because I'm a woman."

**Brennan:** *Oooooh!*

**Michael:** Good for you!

**Nay:** And he was like, "Well stop being a dyke and looking like a fuckin' man!"

**Brennan:** Oh my God

**Nay:** And I couldn't stop laughing, because I was like-- typically when someone assumes my gender to be different than what it is, someone's like, "This person may be a man…"

**Michael:** Uh-huh

**Nay:** If I tell 'em I'm not, they don't believe me. But this guy, I was like, "I'm not a man," and he was like, "Well, ya fuckin' dyke!" Okay, well. You're not wrong

**Michael:** (laughing) Bright side!

**Nay:** (laughing) Yeah

**Sam:** Kill fee

**Nay:** (angrily) "I fix my own car!"

**Michael:** You pull a wrench out of your pocket?

**Nay:** (laughing) Yeah

**Sam:** This strangely ties to something in the script at the end that's changed. I think it's when they call (Rachel) a "lez". So, at the end of this film, for those of you who haven't seen it--

**Michael:** You can spoil a twenty year old movie, it's fine

**Sam:** Oh, *definitely*! And I will spoil it

**Michael:** Everyone dies

**Sam:** Oh man. Also, a movie called "*Carrie 2*"? Can you imagine if everyone *didn't* die? *God,* ugh. Waste of time

**Sam:** They spend like the first of this movie, the first hundred and twenty minutes making everyone *so* unlikable you cannot wait for them to die

**Michael:** Yeah, I know

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** And then you know--

**Michael:** Including Cher Horowitz Two

**Sam:** *God*, I love the *Clueless* TV show!

**Brennan:** Wait, which one was she?

**Michael:** Glasses

**Brennan:** Monica. Okay

**Sam:** So she played Cher on the TV version of *Clueless* and I think in an iconic way

**Michael:** Yeah, she's good

**Sam:** She's incredible, and I love what she brings to this. The whole scene where she steals the lipstick--

**Michael:** It's really good!

**Sam:** *Who puts the sample right on somebody's mouth*?!?

**Brennan:** I was gonna say, is that true?

**Sam:** Oh, fuck off!

**Michael:** Is that a thing? Yeah, I was wondering that, too

**Nay:** Yeah, I know

**Sam:** And then she says, "Hold still," while she puts it on? I'm like, "Ucccch, you're just feeding into this."

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** But at the end, the original line was, I think… do we have that clip?

**Brennan:** Of what?

**Sam:** That part where they're saying how many points Rachel has?

**Michael:** Or she's worth?

**Brennan:** Yes, but it's not great audio, so

**Sam:** Okay, no worries. Basically they just say, the difference is, they say something like, "Rachel…"

**Michael:** In the movie they say she's worth thirty

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** They say she's worth thirty, but it's because she said she was a dyke

**Brennan:** Yeah, so he gets points for the "conversions"

**Sam:** Yeah. And this is like just a *tiny* thing, but in the script it says, "Oh, you know, we *thought* she was a dyke, but…"

**Nay:** *Ohhhh*

**Sam:** Hey, that's different

**Michael:** It is!

**Sam:** That's changing from, "We assumed looking at you but now we know better because you fucked this friend," to, "She said she was a dyke, we're giving her thirty points." Which reminds me of that situation

**Nay:** Totally (chuckles)

**Sam:** But it's like they see her. They see her

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** And they're jealous

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm!

**Sam:** Well, they should be with all that mousse she had going on, I mean

**Michael:** Girl had that tattoo that grew

**Nay:** Oh, I wanted that

**Michael:** You wanted that?

**Nay:** *Yes*

**Michael:** You want that heartbeat?

**Nay:** Yes

**Sam:** Absolutely

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** We should *all* go get matching tattoos after this. Let's get the vines. I want it to go all the way through my face.

**Michael:** Every death is satisfying, too

**Nay:** Yes

**Michael:** Because they're all so violent

**Brennan:** Oh, it's *so* cathartic

**Nay:** Ooooh

**Michael:** It is. Except I wanted Mark's death to be worse than just drowning

**Nay:** Uh-huh. True

**Brennan:** That's true. But it's *prolonged*

**Nay:** It's good, though

**Michael:** It is. That's actually pretty-- they show a long bit of that, of him dying

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** And we get that whole face-off? Oh! *Fucking slay*

**Michael:** And Zachery Ty Bryan loses his--

**Brennan:** It's so-- it gets shot off with a harpoon!

**Sam:** She shoots him in the dick!

**Michael:** It's so great

**Nay:** (laughing) *Yeah!!*

**Sam:** Also an addition

**Michael:** So great

**Sam:** It was a shotgun to the groin before--

**Brennan:** Ooooh, that's so good

**Sam:** But (Katt Shea) was like, "Harpoon to the dick, go into the bottom of the pool."

**Brennan:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** *Ohhhh!*

**Nay:** Okay, Katt

**Michael:** And Monica gets her glasses smashed up in her face

**Brennan:** And doesn't (Rachel) then use that harpoon to escape the pool later?

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** That dick harpoon?

**Nay:** Oh yeah. Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** Yeah, she does

**Nay:** (softly) *Damn*

**Sam:** "I (dick) harpoon"

**Brennan:** *Oh my God*

**Sam:** That's a mood

**Brennan:** It is! And I don't want things to get *too* real, but if these people had survived, they'd be on the Supreme Court right now.

**Nay:** It's true

**Sam:** Oh my God

**Brennan:** This is a *really* challenging movie to watch with these characters

**Michael:** Especially Zachery Ty Bryan

**Nay:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Watching them get brutally murdered was very nice

**Nay:** Wonderful

**Michael:** Well, that's the thing about time, like, twenty years ago I remember seeing this movie and just the way the kids acted, being like, "This is so unrealistic." And as you grow older and start realizing that people just *present* their shittiness more *now* than they used to twenty years ago, whether it's the internet or the power of Trump. You watch that scene where (Zachery Ty Bryan's) essentially like, "My Dad's a lawyer, so I'm gonna get out of this," and you're like, "Oh yeah, that actually happens."

**Brennan:** And they're talking about tarnishing these boys' reputations for horrible crimes that they committed

**Michael:** Yeah. "Why would you do that to some of the most valuable--?"

**Nay:** Yeah. That's what happens. (chortles)

**Michael:** I mean, it does

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Michael:** "You can't do this to some of the most esteemed people in town," or something like that is what they say, and that's Katt Shea in that scene, right?

**Sam:** Wait… is she? (gasps) Queen!

**Michael:** I think that's--

**Sam:** Oh my God!

**Michael:** 'Cause it said in the credits, Katt Shea as "Assistant D.A."

**Sam:** I love that

**Michael:** I thought it was supposed to be a policewoman, but I think that was her, because then it said, "D.A. Something" and some guy in a suit came in and I always thought that was the mayor, so I think that was Katt Shea in that scene

**Sam:** Can we share a quote that just reminded me of what you just said? It's from Preston Max Allen, because I had asked him about this when he wrote it, it being his play, I was like, "Well, what as a queer person drew you to (*Carrie 2*)?" And his response was like, "Eh. *Carrie* already had a musical and this one wasn't taken." I was like, "All right, well, in retrospect did anything change," and his response was, "Underscore did a reunion concert of the show last year around the time Brett Kavanaugh was a major news story. I was shocked at how without changing a word from the show from the year before, and without changing themes from a film from 1999, the conversation almost felt so on the nose. It was as if it was trying to make a glaring point about what was happening with that case. It seemed genuinely as if my decision to work on the show was reactionary to making a point about rape culture and the power white cis men have to make their own rules and be in this big horrifying club together. Which is what *Carrie 2* is about." So well said

**Michael:** So well said

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** So well said. And the only thing about *Carrie 2* that makes it fantasy is the ending.

**Brennan:** You mean how Jesse gets the dog Walter?

**Michael:** *That*, and that most of these people don't get their comeuppance

**Brennan:** Yeah, sorry

**Michael:** You know?

**Brennan:** Not time for joking, I'm sorry

**Michael:** Yeah, but no, how 'bout that ending though?

**Sam:** How 'bout that *remiiiiix*!! "They're all gonna laugh at you!" Untz-untz

**Michael:** (laughing) That's so good! The CD death?

**Sam:** Please.

**(Brennan starts playing the song in the background)**

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Brennan:** Oooh! That's got a nice stereo to it

**Sam:** Mmm-hmm

**(Everyone listens to the song for a moment)**

**Michael:** I'm like ready to take my clothes off!

**Nay:** It's like "Ay, ay, ay… "

**Michael:** "Oooh, oooh, oooh…"

**Nay:** (indistinct)

**(The song ends)**

**Sam:** I need three more minutes of that

**Michael:** Seriously!

**Sam:** It ends way too soon

**Michael:** I love the CD death so much

**Nay:** *Yes!*

**Michael:** I wanted to see them enter her body

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** 'Cause I don't think you see it, right?

**Brennan:** You see 'em in the arm, right?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Kinda. I wanted one to go right in her fuckin' forehead

**Nay:** *Yess!*

**Brennan:** Turn into one of the Cenobites

**Michael:** *Yesss*! Crossover. Girl looks over. "*The Rage: Carrie 2 - Hellraiser*"

**Sam:** Confession, though, and this makes me a bad horror gay, I don't know how I feel about the ending. I know I'm supposed to be living for this revenge. And I *want* to, I do feel conflicted

**Michael:** About what?

**Sam:** About this person who fuckin' kills everybody.

**Michael:** I wanted her to kill everybody

**Sam:** *Yes* they deserve it--

**Brennan:** Yeah yeah yeah

**Sam:** And it feels good and it's fun and I wanna see it, and I leave thinking like, "Fuck." You know? I dunno. It doesn't feel *good*

**Michael:** I wanted her to kill everybody and *live*. That's the thing I'm disappointed about

**Nay:** Yeah, that's why it didn't feel good for me

**Michael:** Exactly.

**Nay:** Why did she have to die?

**Michael:** Why did she have to die? Especially that way, a fuckin' roof fallin' on her?

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Also, telekinesis it off of you!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Michael:** Or whatever. TK it away

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** She could telekinesis Jesse into the pool, why not TK it away?

**Michael:** TK the roof off of you, girl!

**Sam:** You moved everything-- maybe it was heavier than CDs though

**Michael:** She wanted to die

**Nay:** Yeah, she wanted to die

**Michael:** She wanted to die

**Brennan:** That's true

**Michael:** What's that?

**Sam:** It was heavier than CDs

**Michael:** True

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** We haven't talked about Jesse at all, and it's because he doesn't matter. Jesse is (Rachel's) white bread boyfriend

**Michael:** He's like the Alicia Witt of *The Rage: Carrie 2*

**Nay:** *Jesus*

**Sam:** His whole storyline is he opens with, he's hooking up with a girl in the car and she's trying real hard to impress him and he just doesn't give a fuck. Then he almost runs over (Rachel's) dog, then another car does it first. Which by the way, telekinesis that shit out of the way so your dog doesn't die

**Michael:** Right. Well, back up to the sex with Tracy?

**Sam:** *Yes*

**Michael:** Awful. But he gets out of the car, he's like done bangin' her and he's like so low energy he's just like, (groans half-heartedly), you know? And then he gets out of there ashamed of himself, but as soon as he gets out of the car, he starts doing like, Stifler moves

**Sam:** Yeah

**Nay:** (groans in disgust)

**Michael:** It's just like, "What character are you? What character are you."

**Sam:** He is the tool. Because I feel like I *knew* guys like that

**Nay:** Oh, definitely

**Michael:** He is the tool. He's also like the thirty year old senior (chuckles)

**Brennan:** I mean, he's supposedly being positioned as the quote-unquote "true romantic" 'cause he read into *Romeo and Juliet*--

**Michael:** Right. Shakespeare

**Brennan:** And all of this stuff

**Michael:** My eyes almost fell out of my head during that scene

**Sam:** I feel like that Katt knew that guy was a piece of shit

**Brennan:** Yeah

**Sam:** And so when she directed that, that's why we get at the very end, like the bonus ending where he's in front of the mirror and Carrie shows up, or sorry, Rachel shows up and shatters the glass--

**Michael:** Shatters the glass?

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** We get like his *sad*, dark circles under his eyes

**Michael:** Because he's going to be haunted forever?

**Nay:** *Yeah*

**Sam:** Because he's a piece of shit

**Nay:** Yes

**Sam:** He is a product of the patriarchy

**Brennan:** When he asks her out, he does the thing of, "I'm not gonna let you leave until you say 'Yes' to me."

**Michael:** Right! Also, he doesn't give her a time to meet him

**Brennan:** Equally important

**Michael:** I hate when movies do that! I hate when movies don't give each other time or when people don't say "goodbye" before hanging up a fucking phone

**Brennan:** Uh-huh

**Michael:** Anyway. Brennan, sorry

**Brennan:** No, no. It's horrifying! This is why I hated the movie *Book Club*

**(Nay and Michael laugh)**

**Brennan:** Follow me, here.

**Michael:** "So I'm having a Mary Steenburgen."

**Brennan:** No! The other one, literally the other one

**Michael:** Candice Bergen

**Brennan:** No, Woody Allen's, from like--

**Michael:** Mia Farrow?

**Brennan:** No! From *Manhattan*? Or *Annie Hall*?

**Michael:** Diane Keaton

**Brennan:** Diane Keaton, yes! So, she has a meet cute with Andy Garcia, he's the pilot of a plane she's on. And he's like, "Oh, do you wanna go grab coffee when we're on the ground?" And she's at first like resisting, like, "No, no, no." But he basically threatens to crash the plane if she doesn't say yes to him

**Michael:** *Huh!*

**Sam:** Hmmm

**Brennan:** I'm supposed to think this is cute and romantic and I'm like, "Can we just push him out and have the co-pilot take over?" I hate scenes like that. Especially when they're supposed to be romantic or sweet or whatever. It's despicable

**Nay:** So glad we've learned

**Sam:** And I think that maybe that's what justifies (Rachel's) terrible makeover, is that we were all just waiting for her to get more goth!

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** And then she shows up in that fucking hospital gown and no hair product and we're supposed to be swooning?

**Michael:** Oh my God, a hospital gown? With like, Kleenex

**Nay:** Right. I'm like, "Give that bitch an undercut."

**Sam:** Yes! (laughs)

**Nay:** I know she wants one. (Imitates the sound of an electric razor cutting hair)

**Michael:** It looked like she was wearing blue Kleenex

**Sam:** But I bring Jesse up because he has this forced moment where he's got his arm on her and it catches fire, and he looks at the fire like, "I can't go anywhere. I'm gonna stay right here with you."

**Michael:** So Brian watched the last ten minutes with me, he was like, "Why isn't he moving his arm?"

**Sam:** His arm's on *fire*!!!

**Michael:** (sappily) "It's because he *loves* her!" (normal voice) I love the moment in the car when he pulls her top of him and they're making out and she's like, "The parking brake's sticking in my back," and then she's like, "I've never done anything like this--" his acting there is *atrocious*, where he's like, (woodenly) "*Oh. Oh. Oh.*" (normal voice) And then he's like, stuttering like, (woodenly) "*O-o-o-okay*." (normal voice) I'm like, "You're fucking *awful*, Jason London!"

**Sam:** Yeah

**Michael:** You didn't learn anything from *Dazed & Confused*, dude?

**Nay:** He's like, "Just to be dazed and confused."

**Sam:** The "I love you" moment though, when he's like, (as Jesse, woodenly and softly) "I love you."

**Michael:** (as Jesse, woodenly and softly) "I love you."

**Sam:** The fact that you can zoom in on this screen with telekinesis and replay it, pinch--

**Michael:** And turn it up

**Sam:** And now all of a sudden it's hi-def

**Nay:** Right

**Sam:** And you can *hear*, and we're supposed to believe their camcorder can hear through walls and windows? I'm like--

**Nay:** *Right*

**Michael:** Also, wasn't the filming being done through the window on the other side of the bed?

**Sam:** Oh yeah. There's not a *chance* they could hear that--

**Michael:** Got that amazing close-up, too

**Sam:** It's true love

**Michael:** Mmm-hmm

**Sam:** True love is magic

**Nay:** Mmm-hmm

**Michael:** I just love that she went for it on her first time. *Ride* that cowboy

**Nay:** You know, it be like that sometimes

**Michael:** Yeah

**Brennan:** Yeah, *Lady Bird* style

**Nay:** Yeah. Waited long enough

**Sam:** If we were to sum up the film, I feel like it's the line, "The male is the carrier."

**Michael:** Ooooh!

**Brennan:** Yes!

**Sam:** With *zero* explanation. And also, (Rachel) looks back and she's like, "Okay." I mean, these two women are like, "Yeah. Believable."

**Nay:** Right

**Michael:** Believable

**Nay:** Yeah

**Sam:** We have *no* story behind it, just, that's it

**Michael:** Ralph White

**Michael:** Really quick too, Eddie Kay Thomas's character coded gay to me

**Nay:** Hmmm

**Brennan:** Yeah! He had that one scene where he acted like he was (Rachel's) gay best friend and then they never talked again

**Michael:** Yeah. Uh-huh

**Brennan:** That was very strange

**Sam:** Ooooh

**Michael:** Except for when he wanted to get into the party

**Nay:** You were very good at that

**Michael:** Yeah

**Sam:** Well, thank you for letting me share this homophobic gem with you

**Michael:** Yay, Sam! Welcome Sam!

**Sam:** Thank you! Yay! This has been fun!

## Previous Episode

Episode 33: “Is That a Dyson?” (w/ Adam Robitel!)