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 #1
 mag1

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 Posted 09 September 2014 - 07:10 PM

Quote

> Moderation - I've moved some posts from a similar discussion here. The title has also been modified to reflect the additions.
>
>
>

Preliminary indications that 3-Bromopyruvate might be a broadly effective cancer treatment has been building over the last

15 years. It is time that a topic on this forum considered the potential benefits and risks of this molecule.

3-Bromopyruvate appears to interfere with cancer cells energy supply through blocking glycolysis.

Some topics of interest concerning 3-Bromopyruvate that might be discussed here include:

- The FDA's granting of orphan drug status for 3-Bromopyruvate in pancreatic cancer (04/2014) and liver cancer (03/2013).

- The phase 1 trial that was authorized by the FDA over a year ago.

- The recently published human case study of a metastatic melanoma
patient who after treatment with 3-Bromopyruvate and paracetamol (which
depletes tumor glutathione)

experienced a decline in serum lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) from over 4200 U/L to 12 U/L.

- A published human case study of 3-Bromopyruvate in liver cancer that also showed remarkable anti-cancer results.

- The possible risks that 3-Bromopyruvate poses for cognitive
impairment. Mouse models have found that injection of 3-Bromopyruvate

into the brain causes an Alzheimer-like phenotype.

 **Edited by niner, 06 February 2015 - 05:04 PM.**

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 joelcairo

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 Posted 18 September 2014 - 03:15 PM

 I'd be surprised if there was any Alzheimer's risk. A cancer patient would only take 3-BP for a short period of time.

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 #3
 mag1

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 Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:49 PM

 Agreed. It would be an easy decision to choose 3-Bromopyruvate treatment against a theoretical risk of Alzheimer's disease.

Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 1995 Aug;51(4):917-22.

Holeboard maze-learning deficits and
brain monoaminergic neurotransmitter concentrations in rats after
intracerebroventricular injection of 3-bromopyruvate.

The mice received 2 injections of 0.2 mumol  3-Bromopyruvate directly
 into their cerebral ventricles. 10 weeks later they displayed cognitive

impairment related to a cholinergic deficit connected to glucose
metabolism. The article suggests that 3-Bromopyruvate could be used as
an animal for Alzheimer's disease.

Such a problem would be avoided if 3-Bromopyruvate were loaded into minicells.

A 250 microgram cancer treatment with 3-Bromopyruvate in minicells would not likely cause any side-effects.

 **Edited by mag1, 18 September 2014 - 04:51 PM.**

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 mag1

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 Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:10 PM

 The patent for 3-Bromopyruvate as a cancer therapy described how intra-arterial injections to the liver caused the regression

of large tumours and long term survival of animals. However, when 3-Bromopyruvate was injected systemically there was

no regression of liver tumours, though it did appear to suppress the development of lung metastases.

The first published human case study of 3-Bromopyruvate also used an intra-arterial injection method to treat liver cancer.

Yet, the recently published human case study in metastatic melanoma combined a GSH depletor and intravenous 3-Bromopyruvate

administration. This resulted in a very large anti-cancer effect.

A published study found that 3-Bromopyruvate when used as an inhalation therapy could effectively suppress lung tumour

growth in mice.

Could someone give an opinion as whether 3-Bromopyruvate could be a
universal cancer cure given as a systematic therapy (as it is promoted
on some websites) or whether it could have a more limited use as a site
specific anti-cancer therapy ( for example, only injected into a liver
artery etc.)?

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 mag1

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 02:37 PM

 I would be interested in the use of transplanted mitochondria for cancer treatment.

If mitochondria could be engineered that would self-destruct when given some signal (for example,

in the presence of mutated p53), then cancer cells could be deprived of their energy source.

Current cancer treatments (e.g. 3-Bromopyruvate) have shown impressive clinical results when shutting

down cellular respiration.

{It is also of note that a clinical trial with donated blood from younger people is in the works for Alzheimer's disease.}

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 pone11

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 03:59 PM

 mag1, on 18 Jan 2015 - 3:37 PM, said:

Can someone clarify this, because I thought the entire mode of
operation of cancer was to shut down mitochondria and to use glycolysis
OUTSIDE of the mitochondrial environment.

A drug that shuts down mitochondria would on face value simply
enhance the glycolysis that feeds the cancer.   It would be a
catastrophic mistake.

If you believe Warburg's theories about cancer as a metabolic
disease, the therapy that has merit would in fact be the opposite.  You
would want to upregulate aerobic metabolism and use of oxygen.   There
is some support for that in the literature by inserting healthy
mitochondria into cancer cells:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23080556

Since cancer involves potential DNA modifications, it's not clear to
me that simply replacing the mitochondria with new ones accomplishes
this.   You need to force the entire cancerous cell to upregulate its
use of oxygen and downregulate glycolysis.

3-Bromopyruvate is a wonderful agent, but it does not act by denying
cancer mitochondrial energy.   It is an alkylating agent and may act by
inhibiting the HK2 enzyme that cancer cells use to immortalize
themselves and block apoptosis:

http://link.springer...0863-012-9425-4

Note the work of people like Dominic D'Agostino in Florida, who are
now extending on Warburg's work and testing metabolic therapies.
Dominic's lab has been using ketogenic diets, hyperbaric oxygen, and
ketone supplements that boost ketones without dietary inputs.    Here is
 a good overview of his work and early results, which are extremely
impressive:

Dominic is very promotional for his lab, and you will find dozens of
podcasts and Youtube videos with him advocating his work.   Honestly if I
 was a billionaire I would fund him.

 **Edited by pone11, 18 January 2015 - 04:10 PM.**

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 04:27 PM

 Cancer cells use a 50 50 energy mix from OXPHOS and glycolysis. (Normal cells use a 95 5 energy mix)

Selectively, removing the OXPHOS energy input from cancer cells would likely result in an overwhelming stress to

cancer cells. This energy crisis would result in the immediate destruction of the cancer cells.

The engineered mitochondria could be delivered to a patient as a "pro-drug". A signal molecule could then shut off the

mitochondria in cancer cells (e.g. cells with mutated p53 etc.).

The cancer therapy 3-Bromopyruvate which interferes with cellular
respiration (specifically through the mitochondria) has shown dramatic
results.

Consider:

Chin J Cancer. 2014 Jul;33(7):356-64. doi: 10.5732/cjc.013.10111. Epub 2014 Mar 14.

Safety and outcome of treatment of metastatic melanoma using 3-bromopyruvate: a concise literature review and case study

There are other 3-Bromopyruvate combinations including salinomycin, ketone therapy etc. .

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 #8
 pone11

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 04:55 PM

 mag1, on 18 Jan 2015 - 5:27 PM, said:

Think about what you just said.   Cancer cells upregulate glycolysis
from 5% of energy used in the cell to 50%.  So your solution to cancer
is to destroy the remaining 50% attributable to aerobic metabolism by
downregulation of oxidative phosphorylation ("OXPHOS") and making
glycolysis closer to 100% of the cells energy needs?   That's 100% the
opposite approach of what the literature suggests works.

You are not summarizing the metastatic melanoma study correctly.
It's true that 3HP downregulated OXPHOS, but this was "In addition to
inhibiting key glycolysis enzymes including hexokinase II and lactate
dehydrogenase (LDH)...."    So 3BP attacks the cancer by denying it
glycolysis, and naturally since the cancer uses the HK2 enzyme to
control activity of the mitochondria, a drug like 3BP that downregulates
 HK2 is going to selectively deny the cancer access to all energy
sources, including OXPHOS.   That's a side-effect, NOT the primary
mechanism.

I have a metabolic disorder - now partly under control - that shifted
 my body into glycolysis.   I can tell you that getting even 25% of your
 energy from glycolysis is like setting your body on fire.  It's like
someone has taken a needle and injected acid right into your brain and
systemic circulation.  You can't move; you can't think.  It's
overwhelming.   The effects of high glycolysis levels on cancer patients
 is devastating.   A therapy that downregulated OXPHOS without also
targeting glycolysis would be a quick death sentence, and at minimum the
 patient would be in agony.   I say that from personal experience, but
the literature is quite clear that cancer is about the upregulation of
glycolysis, and the therapy you are suggesting is about selectively
denying the cancer cells energy from all sources.

Your choice of studies here is unfortunate since it is a report about
 how 3BP largely failed to impact the human patient's cancer, which was
unfortunately quite advanced at the time they began therapy.   The study
 I quoted from Peter Pedersen is a better overview of all of the 3BP
modalities.

 **Edited by pone11, 18 January 2015 - 04:57 PM.**

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 05:14 PM

 I am very unsure about these comments concerning OXPHOS. I had thought that if one were to remove the mitochondrial

energy input from the cancer cell, then this would be sufficient to
destroy the cancer cell. It is notable that the suggestion is
to selectively

remove half the energy supply from the cancer cell and not from the other cells of the body.

Cancer metabolism, stemness and tumor recurrence

Cell Cycle. May 1, 2013; 12(9): 1371–1384.

..."Thus, oxidative mitochondrial metabolism (OXPHOS) is a common
feature of both (1) normal stem cells and (2) proliferating cancer
cells. As such, we should consider metabolically treating cancer
patients with mitochondrial inhibitors (such as Metformin), and/or with a
 combination of MCT1 and MCT4 inhibitors, to target “metabolic
symbiosis.”

The article with the cancer patient which used 3-Bromopyruvate resulted in an **overwhelmingly massive**
 cancer response. Figure 3 from the article shows that the patient's
cancer was essentially metabolically cured after 3 combination
treatments with 3BP. The patient's LDH level went from 1800 to 12 after
those three doses. The article noted that the patient did not
actually die from cancer, as no metabolically cancer was present at
death. In fact, the patient died from hypoxia.

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 pone11

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 05:43 PM

 mag1, on 18 Jan 2015 - 6:14 PM, said:

The "Cancer metabolism, stemness and tumor recurrence" study is really interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3674065/

From that study:

"Cancer cells have high bioenergetic requirements needed to maintain
cell growth. Glycolysis with generation of lactate and reduced
mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation metabolism (OXPHOS) is commonly
found in carcinoma cells in culture.  OXPHOS generates more ATP per
molecule of glucose than glycolysis with lactate generation and hence it
 is unclear why some cells would use a metabolically inefficient
pathway. It has been hypothesized that glycolysis may confer a growth
and survival advantage, although the mechanism is unknown."

This study is VERY interesting, and it paints a very complex picture
of what cancer does.   It suggests that the most lethal cancers have a
core set of cells that emphasize OXPHOS, but that a key critical
component of the complex is a set of surrounding cells that are
glycolytic and feed lactate and ketones to the OXPHOS cells.  From your
study:

"A significant subset of HNSCC tumors have a large glycolytic
carcinoma cell compartment as measured by MCT4 expression and are
associated with a statistically significantly decrease in DFS (Disease
Free Survival). It may be that these tumors are more aggressive, because
 they generate oxidative stress, lactate and ketone bodies to fuel
mitochondrial metabolism (OXPHOS) in adjacent proliferating epithelial
cancer cells with high MCT1 expression."

So far, all of your studies confirm that cancer is about glycolysis,
and that it is the glycolytic effect that causes the upregulation of
cancer-controlled mitochondria.

What I take away from your studies is that cancer uses HK2 enzymes to
 control the mitochondria.  Drugs like 3BP that downregulate HK2
interfere with glycolysis in the cancer cell and downregulate
mitochondria at the same time.

Your studies are important, because they suggest that cancer is very
good at both upregulation of glycolysis, but it then uses that energy to
 produce additional energy in mitochondria.  I wasn't aware of that
before, so thank you.

I would beg you to please listen to Dominic's presentation that I
linked.   The clinical outcomes they achieved by starving glycolysis are
 extremely impressive.

 **Edited by pone11, 18 January 2015 - 05:48 PM.**

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 Posted 18 January 2015 - 06:08 PM

 The below 2 citations are reports of patients with severe cancer who
received 3-Bromopyruvate and had very large cancer responses.
Could someone confirm that the second article (July 2014) treated metastatic cancer using 3-BrP delivered only IV?

The Johns Hopkins reports did not report such an outcome. In their reported research, the tumors were not treated via systemic
therapy.
 Instead, in one instance they stopped circulation to the liver of
experimental animals and then applied a treatment of 3BrP.
Comments in their research raised doubts as to whether 3BrP would be successful if given systemically.

The
 anti-cancer effect achieved in the July 2014 article seems to be truly
remarkable. Severe metastatic illness appears to have been cured using
only IV BrP and paracetamol. The 3 combination doses of 3BrP and
paracetamol appear to have had an overwhelming anti-tumor effect.

A
 translational study "case report" on the small molecule "energy
blocker" 3-bromopyruvate (3BP) as a potent anticancer agent: from bench
side to bedside.
J Bioenerg Biomembr. 2012 Feb;44(1):163-70. doi: 10.1007/s10863-012-9417-4. Epub 2012 Feb 11.

Chin J Cancer. 2014 Jul;33(7):356-64. doi: 10.5732/cjc.013.10111. Epub 2014 Mar 14.
Safety and outcome of treatment of metastatic melanoma using 3-bromopyruvate: a concise literature review and case study

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 Posted 19 January 2015 - 06:44 PM

 I agree: the Dominic D'Agostino video is revolutionary, even for
those of us already familiar with the ketogenic or paleo diets. This is
an outstanding contribution, so thanks for posting.

One thing that he said really blew me away (paraphrasing): transplanting
 cancer mitochondria into good cells resulted in cancer, even though
transplanting cancer nuclear DNA into good cells did not. This begs the
question: is there a more direct kinetic kill option here?

In particular: Can we use selective thermolysis to obliviate glycolytic
(Warburg glycopathcological) mitochrondria? In other words, can we use a
 strategy similar to what the SENS team investigated for lipofuscin destruction using specific wavelengths of light, or what Yoav Medan used for ultrasonic tumor ablation
 -- but in this case, to selectively destroy mitochondria? One can
imagine a whole body "scanner" which would bathe the patient in some
specific wavelength of energy (photons, ultrasound, or something else).
The viability of this strategy depends upon glycopathcological
mitochrondria having distinct physical characteristics. This is more
plausible than it sounds, on account of the deterioration of the cristae
 (interior mitochondrial membranes) @ 34:30 in the video, which might
change the resonant frequencies of the encapsulating membrane as a
whole. For example, if a normal mitochondrion explodes due to membrane
resonance at 80 +/- 5 KHz, then maybe a bad one explodes at 93 +/- 5
KHz, in which case, we bathe the patient in the latter for some
particular amount of time. Collateral damage might occur if the
frequency domains overlap, but that might be desirable to the extent
that it would destroy precancerous mitochondria as well. This ought to
be relatively cheap to investigate.

Conversely, by analyzing the absorption spectrum, we might be able to use the ablation machine as a cancer detector.

All in all, kinda like this one currently in use on Elysium.

 **Edited by resveratrol\_guy, 19 January 2015 - 07:07 PM.**

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 Posted 19 January 2015 - 10:33 PM

 mag1, on 18 Jan 2015 - 7:08 PM, said:

Based on the interesting 3BP research you posted, I contacted Dominic
 D'Agostino to see if his group is researching 3BP.   He indicated that
they are starting to look at lonidamine, which is a similar drug that
selectively targets the hexokinase 2 enzyme in cancer.   He does not
have published studies yet, just abstracts.   He only has in vivo data
and they need funding to do animal studies.   He indicated the data they
 have is very compelling.

I would say you have a winner there with 3BP and just passing the
pointer to lonidamine for your further research as well.   Really any
hexokinase 2 inhibitor is worth your time to research.

And if we have any billionaires here who want to fund Dominic's work,
 contact me by private messaging and I'll make an introduction.   I can
say that Dominic strikes me as the kind of young researcher who has a
shot at curing cancer.   He is super smart and very wise about how he
funds research (e.g., getting the Navy to fund hyperbaric oxygen
studies, which he then leveraged into oxygen therapy research for
cancer).   But - most importantly - he has the right idea.   After 20
years of wasting billions of dollars on genetic cures to cancer, we
finally have researchers coming back to Warburg's original idea that
cancer is a metabolic disorder.   Some combination of oxygen therapies,
selective downregulation of energy production inside the cancer cell,
dietary control to reduce glucose available to the cancer, etc, has a
real shot at tripling lifespan expectancy for many cancers, just by
starving their growth.   Looking at the dietary issue alone, I cannot
help but be amazed that Dominic figured out a way to produce a ketone
ester that - taken orally - will raise ketone levels for hours, thereby
allowing the person to live on ketone energy and sending their glucose
levels very low without any metabolic discomfort to the brain or normal
cellular metabolism.    That ester by itself would be a huge
accomplishment if commercialized, and he did that just to help prove a
point in a larger study about cancer.  Dominic gets stuff done.

 **Edited by pone11, 19 January 2015 - 10:36 PM.**

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 Posted 19 January 2015 - 11:00 PM

 http://www.dayspring...-cancer-clinic/

http://www.digitaljo....com/pr/2220319

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 01:59 AM

 By the way, aren't this thing about the mitochondria and the cancer
off-topic for mitochondria transplants? Why not you make another topic
for that?

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 01:55 PM

 mag1, on 20 Jan 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Good find, if these are to be believed.

"Founded in the U.S. 12 years ago, Cancer Treatment Institute of
Colombia in Bogota treats cancer using novel cancer drugs and
image-guided ablation with tumor vaccine." Yeah, I think these guys get
it: the worst thing you can do with a "miracle" cancer drug is to use it
 as monotherapy. (Has the history of antibiotics taught us nothing?)
Leave it to one of the most unstable countries in Latin America to light
 the way to serious gains against cancer, while we sit here in the US
shuffling papers around antiquated tumor-specific approaches, throwing
patients from one silo to another while the left hand doesn't know what
the right hand is doing.

As *they* apparently realized long ago, we need to use 3BP (if it works as advertised) *pursuant to*
 physical tumor destruction via surgical excision with positive margins,
 irreversible electroporesis, ultrasound thermolysis, or whatever. This
is basic math: exponentially fewer surviving cancer cells means that the
 remission threshold for 3BP to overcome is just that much lower. We
could finish the job with a vaccine composed of cultured
tumor-responsive macrophages. It gives me the creeps to realize that
after all this intensive intervention in glycopathology, some cancer
stem cells still survive and find another path to lethality. So as crude
 as it sounds, it seems that a kitchen sink approach is necessary,
especially when faced with metastatic cancer. And that doesn't depend on
 us having an Elysium scanner.

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 pone11

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:14 PM

 seivtcho, on 20 Jan 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

Mag1, do you want to start a new thread and then point us there?   Do
 you want the administrator to move the discussion out of this thread
into that one?

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 mag1

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:42 PM

 Sure, if this goes on much more we probably should start another thread. First, I will wait for the eviction notice.

Point
 taken about the journal articles. They are not from the top tier of the
 journal list. It is a concern, when obscure journals
publish such
sensational results. However, the original research was published over
10 years ago from Johns Hopkins. The animal results they reported for
animals were equally stunning. The FDA has granted 3BrP 2 orphan
designations and authorized a human trial to start almost 2 years ago.

It
 is surprising and disheartening how the US handled the 3BrP find. The
investigator who discovered it was fired and has had to enter litigation
 to receive due recognition for the work. It appears that the university
 has appropriated the discovery and is developing it as if they
discovered it.

Notably, the Columbians are including
salinomycin with 3BrP as a combination treatment. Salinomycin has
attracted considerable interest in its own right as it appears to have
potent anti-cancer stem properties. There have been published human
reports demonstrating its effectiveness in cancer therapy.

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 pone11

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:46 PM

 mag1, on 20 Jan 2015 - 6:42 PM, said:

I think this is an important thread that should continue to evolve
for years on this site.  It deserves a new topic of its own so that the
discussion can continue.

The two URLs you posted are not scientific journals at all.  They are
 advertisements for alternative cancer cure clinics.  Profit motive here
 may overshadow the science.

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:48 PM

 http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3516046/

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 Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:59 PM

 Sorry for the confusion.

The 2 articles I referenced above were:

A
 translational study "case report" on the small molecule "energy
blocker" 3-bromopyruvate (3BP) as a potent anticancer agent: from bench
side to bedside.
J Bioenerg Biomembr. 2012 Feb;44(1):163-70. doi: 10.1007/s10863-012-9417-4. Epub 2012 Feb 11.

Chin J Cancer. 2014 Jul;33(7):356-64. doi: 10.5732/cjc.013.10111. Epub 2014 Mar 14.
Safety and outcome of treatment of metastatic melanoma using 3-bromopyruvate: a concise literature review and case study

It
 is true that the 2 urls that I provided were for profit cancer clinics.
 However, the American clinic has been granted government
authorization
 to provide 3BrP treatment. Such approval would likely require some
regulatory oversight. It also highlights the fact that 3BrP has probably
 been administered to human cancer patients in a high quality medical
environment and such treatment, under those circumstances, is safe.

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 Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:44 PM

 A new method of delivery for 3-Bromopyruvate could enhance its effectiveness.

Clin Cancer Res. 2014 Dec 15;20(24):6406-17. doi: 10.1158/1078-0432.CCR-14-1271. Epub 2014 Oct 17.
Systemic delivery of microencapsulated 3-bromopyruvate for the therapy of pancreatic cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4300523/

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 Posted 24 January 2015 - 09:00 PM

 Moderation - I've moved some posts from a similar discussion here. The title has also been modified to reflect the additions.

 **Edited by PerC, 24 January 2015 - 09:08 PM.**

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 mag1

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 Posted 24 January 2015 - 10:17 PM

 I am not sure about the reorganization of this thread. This thread
never gained much traction, so I decided to hitch a ride on another
thread and report on the 3-BP story there.

This thread might still not generate the right vibe to attract a following.

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 Posted 25 January 2015 - 03:14 PM

 What do you suggest?

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 mag1

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 Posted 25 January 2015 - 05:10 PM

 I do not think that I would have moved the 3-BP items from the Mitochondrial thread here.

In the Mitochondrial thread, I wanted to point out the effectiveness
of 3-BP: that was accomplished. A learning opportunity emerged when the
actual therapeutic result from the

article in Chin J Cancer. 2014 Jul;33(7):356-64 was misunderstood.
Two treatments of 3-Brp and salinomycin resulted in a therapeutic cure
for a patient with terminal cancer!

It was noted on that thread that 3-BP is an important subject for
this forum to address over the next few years. After accomplishing my
objective, I intended that the Mitochondrial thread could revert back to
 its main topic. Unfortunately, the 3-BP comments on that thread sapped
the enthusiasm of others and it has now become inactive. I did not
intend that to happen.

Sometimes a bit of heated disagreement is required to give life to a
conversation. This 3-BP thread has been unable to generate such energy,
even though 3BP is possibly an important development in cancer
treatment. 3-BP could be **the cure for cancer.** The lackluster success of this thread encouraged me to catch a wave on another thread and push the 3-BP message there.

A sensationalistic thread topic such as: **Is 3-Bromopyruavte the cure for cancer?** might help. However, I do not want to overstate the evidence.

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 Posted 27 January 2015 - 06:42 PM

 PerC, on 25 Jan 2015 - 4:14 PM, said:

Using 3-Bromopyruvate (3-BP) to Fight Cancer
Is 3-Bromopyruvate (3-BP) a Cancer Cure?

mag1, on 24 Jan 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

So what is the other thread in which you want to post 3-BP information?

Why not fix what you think is broken in this thread rather than taking another thread off topic?

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 #28
 resveratrol\_guy

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 Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:08 PM

 So when I read about the Alzheimer's side effect above (which is
probably an exaggeration, as 3BP was directly injected into the CNS,
which would never happen except perhaps for brain or spine cancer), I
nonetheless am reminded of the purportedly anticancer agent graviola
 (also known as soursop and in the same plant family as paw paw, another
 rumored cancer killer). (BTW a family friend had metastatic liver
cancer a few years ago -- after being cured of colon cancer via
conventional medicine -- and has been in remission ever since,
apparently due to a regimen
 of paw paw along with a Gerson-ish diet and other therapies.) But my
point here is the neurotoxicity issue: graviola can also be neurotoxic
(depending on the particular dose of seed or fruit extract). This
suggests to me that graviola and 3BP might be acting on related
pathways, in which case, the former might be a cheaper and more
accessible alternative in desperate situations. This is also
unsurprising, given the recent studies (for example) demonstrating a significant anticorrelation between cancer and Alzheimer's.

So as I understand it, plain vanilla IV 3BP is basically useless; one
 needs paracetamol to lower the glutathione antioxidant defense of the
tumor cells in order to make it effective. (Organ-targetted 3BP-only
therapy is potententially effective, but the delivery mechanics are
obviously nontrivial, so IMO this is an impractical approach.) So it
kind of sounds like 3BP causes HK2 to indirectly downregulate
glycolysis. Then, robbed of half their energy, normal oxidative stress
becomes an overwhelming tax on the cancer cells which are also
glutathione depleted, resulting in cell death. (Not to forget
salinomycin, but I'm no expert on it.) Somehow, during this process, we
need to preferentially protect healthy cells. Perhaps a proapoptic agent
 which is also an antioxidant, such as reveratrol or pterostilbene,
would be useful. c60oo (and similarly, nicotinamide riboside) might be
useful as well, judging from the original Baati experiment, although
it's not completely clear whether or not it would protect cancer once it
 had already developed, even though it appears to prevent it in the
first place. (Here
 is one early encouraging result.) Anyway, I'm just trying to think of a
 way to protect the patient from undue oxidative and neurological stress
 (nicotine? lithium? NGF eye drops?) while we fry the cancer. This isn't
 idle fascination; a friend of a friend of mine (not the guy above) has
metastatic pancreatic cancer. I've told his wife about 3BP, for
starters.

A ketogenic diet has obvious benefits, but is unpalatable to some
people, even some people with cancer. (And with digestive cancers, the
fat load would require increased synthetic enzyme intake, if it could be
 tolerated at all.)

[Mods: IMO this is "the" 3BP thread, based on internal search ranking, so I vote to keep it that way.]

 **Edited by resveratrol\_guy, 01 February 2015 - 03:38 PM.**

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 #29
 mag1

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 Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:18 PM

 Thanks. I am liking this is THE 3-BP thread.

I want to generate a positive vibe so that all the cool people will join in.
The problem with this forum is that there is no good way to filter down all the bogus cancer threads so that ones like 3-BP
are more prominent.

Longecity does not have many hard core cancer patients posting, so the threads do not have the same urgency as elsewhere.
Check out some of the latest posts from the cancercompass forum.
http://www.cancercom...all,65701,0.htm

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 #30
 resveratrol\_guy

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 Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:34 PM

mag1, on 01 Feb 2015 - 4:18 PM, said:

We have the biohackers. They have the desperate patients. So to
anyone with an established reputation on a patient site, I would
recommend making a few polite posts, inviting cancer patients (or better
 yet, their healthy family members who are not mentally drained by the
disease) to visit Longecity cancer threads such as this and others.
There is no excuse for keeping the public in the dark about potentially
powerful (albeit lightly tested) alternatives, but by and large, that's
just the way things work by default. Thanks to you and others for
sharing this information.

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