ASM236 Making It to the Other Side

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welcome to another episode of ask science mike it's a weekly podcast where we believe that every sincere question deserves an honest and non-judgmental response and you can probably tell by the lack of a theme song uh and uh a title at the beginning of the episode that's gonna be one of my special episodes and um it's because i'm getting so many questions from you all about uh the pandemic about covet 19 and about all that's going on and and what updates there are and i've noticed that people feel overwhelmed with information and trying to discern you know what information is high quality information and what information is not and there's a lot of conspiracy theories and so i thought today that we would talk about the most up-to-date scientific understanding of the virus and how we can mitigate it and what things could look like in the future as we go deeper into the pandemic and hopefully you know get past the debilitating portion of this pandemic um and so that's what we're going to talk about today we're going to go through reliable and evidence-based ex explanations of where we are and what may come next and as we do that i really want you to do something important and that's pay attention to how you feel i want you to pay attention to your feelings and to your mental health and i want you to take care of you so i'm going to do my best to even as we talk about difficult things i'm going to do my best to regulate my feelings you know you've heard me share strong feelings before about how people are responding to the pandemic i have done all my work emotionally to speak calmly as i share information with you today but even as i do my best to stay calm a lot of the things we talk about are going to be emotionally overwhelming they're going to be frightening they might make you angry and i just want you to encourage any time you need to to hit pause on this podcast and take a break and take a breath and focus on your feelings and de-escalate yourself and i want you to do that on an ongoing basis as much as you need this podcast will be here whenever you need it you can listen as quickly or as leisurely as you need to the other thing i would say is uh this week there are some really exceptional resources in the show notes i think i've got oh gosh let me look uh five pieces to share with you um they are exceptional and so today we are going to talk about making it to the other side of covid19 and um well i'll skip the announcements you know i got a lot to share but we'll share that next week there's some really exciting developments coming in the world of science mike uh but let's keep this episode completely about the pandemic so let's start with something really important to me and that is how we got here in the first place you know the response to covet 19 across the world has varied significantly some places have been hit harder and some places have been hit less hard some places were hit hard at first and got things under control in some places the virus continues to just sort of you know spread wildly uh with very limited control of course the united states would be one of the preeminent examples of that and there is a a writer named ed young his work uh i um really appreciate and ed is a science writer for the atlantic and has just released a piece called how the pandemic defeated america and it is an exceptional read that is one of the resources in the show notes i would really encourage you to look at it um you know i know that we've got folks from all kinds of political orientations and uh party affiliations and non-affiliations and placings on political spectrums that listen to this program and one of the things i know many of you enjoy is that you consider me non-political or at least non-partisan and how i present information and there's we've just reached a point where um if we are honest it is impossible to talk about the response to the coronavirus in the united states without significant critique of our current president donald trump a lot of our leadership especially republican leadership both at the federal and state level um you know and so you know piece by piece in the united states we have basically um failed at everything uh we we've almost done as a as bad a job as possible in responding to this pandemic and there's a lot of things behind that number one is we have this ongoing anti-intellectual bias and tradition in the united states and uh we are really um you know we are reaping what we have sown there in that there's a lot of people who kind of choose their beliefs and let's be real all humans to some degree have cognitive biases and they select information that supports their existing worldview but there's a particular type of bias that's especially strong in the united states that leads to things like climate change denial it is often very associated with religiosity or spirituality um if there's one thing that you know evangelical fundamentalists and and uh progressive new age spiritualists in california share in common it is that they reject evidence readily if it conflicts with their spiritual worldview we have an anti-science bias in our society and that sort of primed large swaths of our population to ignore good advice and the problem is a lot of those people are in charge of the government and so you have some percentage of the country you know it's a solid 30 because it's kind of in for the whole thing and then probably you know up to 40 48 is and for pieces of this um and it meant that as as as epidemiologists and virologists and public health experts laid out what needed to be done basically we decided a society that it sounded too hard and just didn't do it and uh that's that's how we got here and so this piece in the atlantic i think is really important for everyone to read right now not after the pandemic right now because it explains how you know sarcia v2 the virus that makes coven 19 is almost perfectly calibrated to exploit weaknesses in the american health care system and the social safety net in america because it's uh just bad enough it's deadly enough to kill millions of people but mild enough to you know spread without detection for a long time because so many people are asymptomatic uh when they get coveted 19. and so it can overload hospitals but it takes a while and so by the time it's overloading hospitals a lot of people are really sick and so it's exposed um the ways america really is exceptional and not in flattering ways our poor health outcomes in our country um the way the the profit-based healthcare system uh has created supply chains and capacity that are designed to handle ongoing needs but not surges um and piece by piece how over and over you know when we've had time we've squandered it through denialism all the while frankly scientists had a good sense of what would happen and and generally you know have offered good advice and when we compare the united states to the rest of the world you know very few countries did everything right very few but if you did enough right it would mitigate your mistakes and in the united states we just we really didn't do anything of consequence even our lockdown has been so half-hearted that all it's done is it has slowed the spread but it's also really frustrated people in the length of our lockdown you know we're months into our lockdowns here um because we didn't use that time to prepare for opening up after a lockdown we can't safely open up so we just keep tell people they have to keep uh staying in their homes and then we are not offering any income assistance or or assistance with food and housing and basic necessities so people feel forced back out and then some people a lot of people again maybe a third of the country or more um it's actually it's definitely more now that i think about we have the data support that uh they just are you know uh tired of being indoors they resent the whole thing they don't think kobe can affect them and we have large numbers of private gatherings that are acting as super spreader events and creating clusters of this virus across the country so there is plenty of blame to go around in the united states um on how this got so bad and frankly how the worst could be yet to come still that's why i'm making this podcast right now the reason i want you to read this piece in the atlantic and the reason i want you to understand the fullness of how epic the failure in the united states has been is to let you know friends it can still get worse this fall can absolutely i'm talking the next six to eight weeks could be the worst of what's happened so far because the other thing we're seeing is in countries where they did a good job controlling the spread as they start to open up covid 19 comes roaring back so when you're asking when do things get back to normal the first thing i need you to start being aware of is it's going to be a long time until things are back to normal and to some degree normal never returns we're going to talk about that as we get deeper in the episode but in terms of like how long are we going to be you know staying physically distant from people and wearing masks and having periods of lockdown i think it's going to go solidly into 2021 maybe you know summer 2022 is very plausible we've gotta manufacture and distribute a vaccine we're finding now that the vaccine might be a double dose vaccine you take one dose and then take another dose 30 days later so they get to hurt immunity in the united states you're about 700 million doses you've heard of the trump administration that they've secured hopefully a hundred million doses that is not going to get us anywhere near herd immunity so this is this is going to be a long process and this is what i mean take the breaks you need for your mental health to make it through this episode but we have got to start preparing for the long haul as a society which brings me to schools you know a lot of schools are trying to open back up a lot of parents want their children back at school and i have to be honest friends children belong in school this is a developmental and emotional nightmare for children they do better in socialized environments and socialized learning environments and at the same time i'm saying under no circumstances should schools in the united states be opening right now basically anywhere and here's why because we haven't controlled the spread of the disease opening schools up now puts children at even more risk than keeping them closed does which is a stunning indictment on us all but i've got two pieces to share with you i've got a piece in forbes new evidence suggests young children spread covet 19 more efficiently than desert than adults and and it links into two pieces that go into how when children get coveted 19 or even if they're asymptomatic they have 10 to 100 times as much virus in the nasopharynx region of their body as older children and adults 10 to 100 times as much and then another study went through and showed that children under 14 spread the virus more effectively than anyone else so children contrary to what you may have been told actually spread the virus incredibly efficiently we have the data to show that now i have another this is just a paper published in morbidity and mortality weekly report mmwr and that does a study of a summer camp in georgia from june 2020 this is recent data and how quickly even with everyone being tested before they arrived and even with all the counselors wearing masks children not wearing masks and outdoor activities how rapidly covid19 spread through that camp until we get the spread of the virus under control it is not safe for our children to return to school now that's going to put some people in a difficult situation if you're in a community where schools are being opened and there is no dis distance learning option or for families who economically distance learning is not possible they don't have high speed in it at home they don't have dedicated space to set up a child with a laptop to study and learn i believe me i am well aware of those issues and deeply concerned again this is exposing the tremendous systemic inequality that we have allowed to fester in the united states and it is affecting our ability to deal with this pandemic and here's why friends you might say well you know if children are less likely to have a severe presentation to covet 19 can we just send them to school anywhere number one they're gonna get their parents sick they're gonna spread it they're gonna continue to get people sick who are at risk and i don't know about you but i could use a little break so let's check in with our sponsors uh this week's episode is brought to you by betterhelp which is an online counseling service which is frankly just about perfect for this time in history when social distancing is so necessary and we are facing a mental health crisis of unmatched magnitude betterhelp can provide you with one of over 11 000 licensed therapists for feedback advice and guidance from a licensed professional therapist online it's affordable private anytime anywhere over 1 million 100 000 people have signed up for this service i really can't recommend it enough if you go to betterhelp.com mike you'll fill out a short questionnaire that will help the team at betterhelp match you with a counselor that you're going to love that's going to help you face the challenges that you face in your life and if it's not quite a fit which is very normal it's normal uh to have to talk to multiple therapists to find someone who fits better help makes that process really easy because you can request a new therapist at any time for no additional cost and of course the services at betterhelp are available on a sliding scale so if you have a loss of income from covet 19 better help will still be able to help you it's a wonderful service that i myself use you can get started today by going to betterhelp.com sciencemike the university of california san francisco posted a feature called we thought it was just a respiratory virus this is another absolute must read everyone should read this everyone should read this it is the latest and greatest evidence-based coverage of what covid19 does to the body and i'm going to summarize some findings in that piece knowing that you're still going to go read it because it is worth your time fundamentally medical researchers have been trying to figure out why does covet have such a strange set of symptom presentations why is it sometimes it's asymptomatic and other times it looks like a respiratory infection but other times it looks like a gastroinfection sometimes it causes cardiac distress or organ damage it can cause rashes and skin lesions it can do that during the infection it can do it long after the infection is gone what is going on so researchers have been digging into that remember this virus is very new i know it's changed the world i know it feels like it's been with us forever but this is just a brand new virus to our species and here's some things we've learned number one it looks like the way covid makes its way into cells is through a set of protein gates known as ace ii receptors these are receptors that that are just part of the cell i was about to say designed to well my creationist background seeping in but these are receptors on cells that you know allow chemical messengers to attach to a cell that help us do things like regulate blood pressure and sar cov2 the virus that causes covin-19 will use these receptors and kind of pry them open and get into the cell and it means fewer ace2 receptors means there's a lower risk of infection is one of the leading hypothesis for why men are getting covet 19 more than women because men have more ace2 receptors now here's what's interesting you know covets causing more deaths right now than influenza does generally that's why we're shutting down economies because of it but when we put if you put human cells in a petri dish and introduce influenza influenza will destroy in a very short period of time most of those cells as it gets into cells and hijacks the cells and reproduces and they explode with a bunch of influenza influenza virus which then start killing neighboring cells when you do that with sar cov2 guess what it doesn't destroy cells as readily not at all it actually seems like sars cov2 does a better job at reproducing itself without destroying host cells which should speak to a more mild virus wow that's confusing what's going on it seems coronavirus says you know about a quarter of common colds are caused by coronavirus and one of the reasons we don't have a common cold vaccine is because number one so many viruses cause the common cause of number two because coronaviruses are tricky they mutate rapidly and readily they like to steal rna from host cells rna of course being the companion molecule to dna the messenger that carries the instructions of dna out into a cell so coronaviruses they love to steal rna use them for their own purposes and it seems like in doing that what covid does is get our immune system to some degree to turn on our own cells so we see the damage and lungs for example from covid19 it appears that a lot of that is caused by our own immune cells it's not like influenza where your human cells are being exploded by reproducing virus this is a big insight so even though it looks like covenant 19 is like 10 times the mortality rate of the flu what it's doing is whipping our immune system into a frenzy efficient effectively um and that is part of why we see such strange presentations of coveted 19. now remember now so far i've only talked about ace2 inhibitors and what is happening in our lungs when we look at covid covet doesn't just uh cause respiratory syndromes although it does especially for at-risk groups we are also seeing people with headaches and brain fogs and delirium and strokes from covid brain aneurysms we're seeing an ocular presentation with pink eye we're seeing again rash and lesions on feet we're seeing system-wide vascular injury and inflammation we're seeing vomiting and diarrhea stomach aches and nausea we're seeing of course classic respiratory things like cough and shortness of breath then full-on lung injury we've been seeing people that lose their smell and sense of taste along with a possible runny nose and sore throat or sneezing and we've seen people with weakened cardiac muscles arrhythmias and even heart attacks all of these things coming from covet 19. we're seeing heart failure people are having heart attacks lethal heart attacks from covet covid19 it is possible in many cases covadeslar under reported we have seen an increase in cardiac events uh during the pandemic so it could be there's a lot of people have covered we don't know what's good but we just think they're having a heart attack they wouldn't have had that heart attack if it weren't for covet 19 getting into their cardiac tissue right so this is a big deal now we think about remember sending kids to school now imagine you send your child to school and they get asymptomatic covered but then their heart gets affected we're seeing children can have reduced lung or cardio cardiovascular capacity following covet 19 even if they had an asymptomatic symptom presentation so even though like 80 percent of covid cases are mild 15 percent are severe 5 are critical in that non-severe category people can still have over time organ damage and again we're seeing people an epidemic of strange painful sores splotchy purple and sores uh on people's feet and and red dots appearing on their toes and itching and burning and it's covered sometimes being called coveted toes right now again and what's interesting here this happens with heart infection this can also happen with the the foot infection at no point will a nasal swab or other covates indicate you have coveted 19. so a false covatest can give you a false sense of confidence here we're also seeing covid gets in the gut diarrhea nausea vomiting that can last for months come and go very painful um so it seems if you swallow the virus particles you will not get respiratory covid but then kovid starts infecting what the lining of your stomach and your intestines and again if you take a test for covet and you have it in your gut that test is likely to come back negative you actually what we're finding is the covid virus has to be found in your stool about 50 percent of patients have covet 19 also have particles in their stool but the opposite there's you know there can be uh people with cova that you don't see the particles in the stool and then you know their nose swabs are negative the entire time so that's a big deal this is the we're talking debilitating when you have nausea or diarrhea or vomiting for months you cannot work you cannot care for your family and you cannot care for yourself and we have people who got coven 19 early who are still struggling with these symptoms the virus can also have neurological impacts we're seeing people with brain fog dizziness delirium strokes we're seeing damage to kidneys liver injuries and so what researchers are beginning to wonder and begin to examine is how much of this is related to covet getting in our blood supply causing blood clots and blood clots studying throughout the body spreading the virus throughout the body then multiple symptoms getting a simultaneous or asynchronous infection of covet-19 and then some percentage of patients after the virus is no longer active in their body get multi-system inflammation syndrome mis c for covid where after the virus is no longer active your immune system remains kind of uh hypervigilant attacks your own body's systems so if anyone's telling you covid is like the flu they are wrong people number one it's it's ten times as deadly or more number two it you can get coveted and experience disability potentially lifetime disability from having coveted 19. and the two things i want you to have realized so far in the show is number one in many countries the united states included no better response is on the way we're kind of on our own and number two the more we learn about this virus the more insidious and damaging it potentially is to the human body so we're not making an effective response on a national level in the united states countries that have made an effective response are learning they cannot actually reopen like they thought they could because covet comes surging back so there's kind of two strategies here number one countries that contain their spread they move into a phase of continuing to contain the virus what does that mean it means locking down again over and over as necessary to get the total number of cases back down having universal masking testing and contact tracing forever along with social distancing and i think i already said universal masking that's what happens for those countries but what if you're in brazil i know i've got a lot of listeners in brazil what if you're in the united states i have a lot of listeners in the united states what if you're in the united kingdom which is going to split the difference between an effective and an effective national response what do you do in those places when you're kind of on your own that's hard because extended loneliness is bad for your health it really is i read a paper yesterday about the effects of depression and loneliness on cognitive function and it is staggering depression and loneliness uh you know are very very bad for your health especially your brain the health impacts of chronic loneliness and depression can be compared unfavorably to smoking so i don't know about you but sometimes i feel trapped doing the right thing seems to impair my health if i try to go back to normal and i try to just hang out with people indiscriminately and you know if i were to sell tickets and do an event you know like that that would also be responsible what do we do the first thing you have to do is set up a new set of rituals designed to keep virus particles from getting into your system if you're not doing proper hand washing already get in a ritual of sanitizing your hands a good hand washing when i wash my hands it takes 30 seconds i have a rigorous methodical scrub lots of soap warm water although if i'm you know going out more than a couple times a day for various reasons then i'd switch to cold water so i don't uh injure my hands and hand washing is important you know masking every time i i'm out i'm wearing a mask um i don't touch my face i don't touch you know my eyes my nose my mouth i'm careful not to touch surfaces so those rituals have stuck with me uh we have a a basket by our doors my whole family got the doors you just grab a mask you go we use reusable masks because of the environmental impact of disposable masks again if you haven't heard already i really like adam's masks a-t-o-m-s atoms masks they're they're exceptional very comfortable uh very well-made they're not a sponsor i just like them and then after you're kind of handling your personal covered hygiene we got to remember the three c's of coven risk and those are now again this is assuming already you're handling your hand washing and your masking and not touching your face this is the baseline so then how do you how do you manage your risk closed spaces are a risk crowded places are a risk and close contact is a risk i'll say it again closed spaces crowded places and close contact those are the things that increase your risk of covet 19 in terms of when other people are around so that means if you have to go to work because of where you are working from home is not an option how do you mitigate a closed space with ventilation we are seeing studies that show the simple act of opening doors and windows makes a big difference even if it's for 10 minutes out of every hour so i can imagine if you're in the southeastern united states in august open doors and windows is going to be a hard sell in an office environment but for 10 minutes an hour that helps a ventilation as much as possible crowded places how many people are around the more crowded the more risk even with social distancing you know if i had to choose between being with five people and we're all five feet apart or a thousand people and we're all eight feet apart i'm gonna take the first one especially if it's indoors i wouldn't even honestly i wouldn't go if it was indoors but so avoiding crowds is extremely important here and then close contact how close am i to other people i met a friend today we met in a park and uh she showed out her name's allison trobich she's a great friend and she showed me this wonderful ritual instead of uh elbow bump which i won't do anymore you have to get too close uh certainly not a handshake we tapped our feet together it was awesome because you know you see a person there's like this ritual especially as a good friend you're used to if there's someone you would usually hug to stand there and not do anything when you meet it just feels awkward and strange i just allison thanks for the the toe the foot the foot the foot five i guess i don't know what to call it but it wow it certainly it felt normalizing um but so you will not be able to isolate yourself through 2022 and come out in some vaguely solid mental state and what happens i've noticed is people like go through periods where they social distance and they isolate and they can't take it anymore and then they basically like get too risky they're back to hugging and they're no mask and they're at a party with 10 other people or 30 other people or whatever and that's how we get clusters so what i've tried to do is focus on something more sustainable remember this is i'm assuming no help is on the way maybe we'll get another presidential administration and maybe things will get better but you know maybe not so i'm assuming the worst which seems to be a pretty reasonable way to function so far so what does that mean um i meet people at parks we wear our masks we walk together we put you know five feet apart it feels normal to walk to somebody you know four and a half to six and a half feet shoulder to shoulder that doesn't feel weird at all you got your masks on your outdoors the risk there is very low now i mean one person at a time remember crowded places is a risk the more family units you miss the higher the chance that someone there is going to have covered 19 and it's going to spread one person at a time is much safer so and i don't do this a lot you know in a busy week i'll see two people and a lot of weeks i see nobody but um we'll go to a park we'll walk together um uh if there's a big picnic table we'll sit in opposite corners and sit and talk for a while it's just nice to see people when i have people over to my house and i do we sit in the backyard and i have my chairs set up in a way that i've tried to make feel kind of natural where chairs are like eight to ten feet apart so we're outdoors we're eight to ten feet apart and then people come over they'll sit in the backyard we'll talk for a long time couple hours it's so much fun just to see people again and you know i like to be a good host so i um i will wash my hands thoroughly i will wear a mask and i will put on gloves and i'll make somebody a drink and i'll take their drink out to them and set it down on their table and then i'll go in i'll take my gloves off wash my hands again i'll come back out with my drink we sit down and we have a drink together eight feet apart outdoors see what i mean that is a risk what i'm talking about is how do you balance social interaction which we need to be healthy and slowing the spread of covet 19. um i got to be honest my goal is to get to the i want to get to the vaccine because as i study the effects on the body i don't want this virus i don't want to get it at all i have multiple risk factors and you may too and even if you don't have the risk factors friends we are seeing people who hit covet 19 and it affects them for months and it may affect them for years or longer we simply do not know but the the amount of organ damage in some cases is staggering so close spaces the answers go outdoors crowded places the answer is c fewer people in close contact the answer is spread out ventilate depopulate spread out those are my strategies i still go to stores as infrequently as possible when we get groceries we sign up for the curbside pickup when i get takeout at a restaurant curb side pickup um that's a big deal but loneliness is a big deal too so if you hear me talking you're like i can't make it until 2021 much less summer 2022 like this or i have to schools are open in our town or whatever ventilate depopulate spread out as many of those factors as you can control control the ones you can't you know overcompensate there's no guarantees you can do everything right and still get covered 19. you can also do the riskiest things not get it both of those things will happen that doesn't affect the statistical fact that the wisest strategy is to wear a mask you know and pay attention to the three c's wash your hands frequently don't touch your face closed spaces crowded places and close contact are the risks for kova 19 the answer then is to ventilate depopulate spread out again assuming you're washing your hands and masking because now don't get me wrong we could still beat this virus if we organized if we did four to five weeks in the united states of a total lockdown which we have not done so far when we lock down we lock down about halfway believe it or not i'm talking like a lockdown lockdown like they've done in other countries we'd get our case load way down and if we use that time to ramp up our testing capacity and our contact tracing ability and then when we started to reopen after that lockdown did universal masking and controlled the three c's we could get a lot closer to normal than we are now i just don't see that happening with our current administration there's simply too much anti-intellectualism and frankly professional incompetence in our government right now um so we'll probably hopefully get a new administration they'll take it more seriously we'll have a big reset maybe some political fights about liberties wow many are dying friends we could still though on the track we are now a lot more people are going to die from this virus i don't want you to be one of them don't waste your energy fighting with people pick your battles the people are just hardcore deniers set some boundaries create distance get them out of your life limit their access to you for your safety both physically and emotionally and understand this is a coronavirus the final piece i want you to read this week is one in the atlantic by sarah zang called the coronavirus is never going away and it is uh it is well resourced well researched based on good science this is a coronavirus we don't know how long immunity lasts we don't know how effective vaccines are going to be it is extraordinarily likely that for the foreseeable future kovid 21 and covet 25. these are named after years they're going to be a thing and at least for a little while they're likely to be more lethal than other seasonal viruses we don't know if the other systemic effects of covid will continue but we need to start getting used to the idea that masts may end up becoming a permanent part of our society that the kind of casual large gatherings we've done in the past uh they may not be possible for a long time it won't shut our societies down don't get me wrong um but coronaviruses are uh tricky they're tricky and um yeah we are going to have to adopt a more collective mindset about health and resourcing to survive the future of covet and whatever frankly whatever pandemic comes next [Music] the the the pressures we are placing on the natural world in resourcing um more and more wild species are being forced into more regular contact with humans which is by the way where pandemics come from and it is likely that the rate in which we experience pandemics increases and that we could have a pandemic very easily that is both more contagious and more deadly than kovid 19 and as a dress rehearsals go uh we haven't fared this one well so if you're thinking what should we do in the future as we learn well we need to we need to fund pandemic response teams and keep them funded we need to fund epidemiological and virological research but we also need to build a functioning social safety net and a system to protect people and businesses from the disruptions that come along with a pandemic because what we are seeing is if people feel insecure about their access to food and housing then they will not comply with orders designed to stop a pandemic and why would they right so we've got to work together to change our policy framework economic inequality makes a pandemic more dangerous for everyone that is what we're seeing in the data right now so for a little while at least friends help is not coming and you've got to take care of you how do you do that you wear a mask and in fact if you're at risk for health complications or death from covid19 and you have children or essential workers in your home wear masks at home do more in-home sanitation wash your hands frequently don't touch your face and be aware of the three c's the risk factors of covered 19 closed spaces crowded places in close contact and start designing less risky ways for you to get social contact on an ongoing basis is that leaning more frequently into calls and texts i've been having wonderful video calls with friends both here in los angeles and all over the country and setting up lower risk socially distanced in-person opportunities for connection can help us protect the mint mental health fallout from this condition and this pandemic if you've got questions about covet 19 feel free to send them in uh we've talked as a team we're going to try to make covet updates a regular part of the program because i'm learning it is difficult to get non-anxious evidence-based perspectives on this pandemic and um that's something i can do for you so it has been great to talk with you this week and i can't wait to talk to you again very soon take care my friends be well