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 circumstances regarding your uncrumpled banknote redemptioning attempt ‡‡
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theres actually a big fat RULE BOOK on what you need to have in order to be eligable for the *lovely offer of a lifetime*
---
---
i would explain these rules on this section here but you need to be eligable to actually READ THE RULES ANYWAY HAHAHAHAHAH PIKEY
---
---
**if you think you're seeing this in error and you're not actually a pikey then you're wrong because you're obviously a massive pikey otherwise you wouldnt be claiming free *uncrumpled* banknotes!!!**
also i program in scratch therefor the number of errors possible in my programming is a **big, fat, *zero***
---
---
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<h1>Shaped by the 90s</h1>
<h6>6/2/2022</h6>
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<p>
The 90s: last in the lineup of cool decade names. I suppose the early 2000s, in all their newfound nostalgia for the old web and the like, have been called the ânaughtsâ, but it just doesnât have the same ring. Also in theory, weâre back to the 20s, but for simplicityâs sake I prefer to keep such namesakes confined to the twentieth-century.
</p>
<p>
Alongside its partner in crime, the 80s, the decade was a hot bed for pop culture, aesthetics, and deep-seated nostalgia. But much like my imagining of the 50s being full of rollerskate-delivered fast food, poodle skirts, and the luxury of surviving on a single income, it was more likely to also include pervasive cigarette smoke, inadequate dental care, and hand-me-downs that didnât match what was generally accepted to be in vogue.
</p>
<p>
So what of the 90s in that regard? Was everything zig-zag confetti-themed? Did neon-purple triangles dominate every advertising theme? Did anyone unironically wear a bucket hat? Well Iâm going to dig in and see what exists only as a trope of the zeitgeist, and what life was actually like.
</p>
<p>
Except for that last one, which I will answer right now: it was in fashion for one month in 1999, then it disappeared.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="buckethat.jpg" alt="Phat Farm" />
<figcaption>Phat Farm</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
If I were to be born again, Iâd only tweak the year slightly and dial it back to 1976. This would mainly allow me to reap some of the early 80s toys, and then place me as a young adult in the 90s so I could enjoy some of the concerts that would never be the same again. That said, my current standing allowed the gamut of my formative years to all fit neatly into the decade at hand.
</p>
<p>
And what a gamut it was⦠We started with the last remnants of hair metal and ended up with nu metal. Cartoons went from Saturday morning excuses to sell merchandise to South Park and the twisted MTV animated blocks. Geometric designs to cyberpunk. Even hats made the shocking transition from being worn normally to being worn backwards. Earth-shattering, I know.
</p>
<h2>
Style
</h2>
<figure>
<img src="style1.png" alt="Jams and Homemade Clothes" />
<figcaption>Jams and Homemade Clothes</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
So letâs dial back to the beginning. Like any transitional period, there is some bleed over from the time just before. When I think of the 80s, itâs easy to imagine flashy video games, neon lights, and outrageous pop music. While a fair amount of that is true, Iâd generally pin a lot of that on the first few years of the 90s, and leave the majority of the previous decade with leaded gasoline, endless boredom without the internet, and those corduroy pants that made the swish-swish-swish sound when you walked.
</p>
<p>
Truly the biggest aesthetic stereotype that needs to sit on the latter side of the fence is the bright eye-blinding neons that were everywhere. Maybe the 80s had actual neon lights in bars and stuff where smoke filled the air, but otherwise the timeframe was filled with dark and flat color schemes. Not so a few short years later, when everything came alive. From slap bracelets to translucent phones, you could only stare at objects for so long before risking permanent vision damage. Remember Lisa Frank stickers and file folders? Yes, thatâs a design choice that sits firmly where you think it should. You werenât cool in school unless you could reflect the sunâs damaging rays into the faces of your peers.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="style4.jpg" alt="AOL: It's Free" />
<figcaption>AOL: It's Free</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Did the colors last? Sadly no. Well maybe on consumer products, but in advertising it was shifting ever so slightly. Most often seen on the bumpers between shows on the newly formed Fox television channel, everything went pastel, and gradients gave way to abstract shapes. Spirals, squiggles, and dots would pulsate and jump in a two-frame animation set against a background that abandoned all semblance of color theory.
</p>
<p>
Then grunge hit. As quickly as one theme began, it was cast aside for gritty realism filled with scuff, scrapes, and graffiti. Finally as the decade came to an end, a new cultural shift started to take hold. I attribute this change to two things: the internet (and any new technology that the older generation didnât want to learn) and the bulk of Generation-X become teens and young adults. Mass media started to cater to this X-treme group, so everything became edgy, loud, and in your face. The slacker generation became the hacker generation, attention spans were shortened, and matrix code dripped across anything that seemed remotely computeryish. It certainly didnât end there as the 2000s would run with this motif in full force, but thatâs another article for another time.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="style2.jpg" alt="Fractals were all the rage" />
<figcaption>Fractals were all the rage</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>
Music
</h2>
<p>
Music took another interesting journey. As with design choices, we carried over many of the genres that had their start in the late 80s. Hair metal was on its way out, but didnât completely die. Even if the musical stylings faded, the long hair persisted for a time, and though it wasnât frizzed and teased, it still fell below the shoulder. Look at any of the grunge bands in 1991 compared to 1996, and youâll see what I mean. Rap and Hip-Hop also began earlier, but found a foothold soon with a darker and grittier edge to it. Like the grunge movement, things had shifted from fun and light to something more dire and serious. Iâm not entirely sure why, since I feel like the 90s were a more carefree time, but perhaps good times make whiney people. I donât know.
</p>
<p>
That said, the shift that resonates with me the most is the one from vapid 80s pop to vapid 90s dance. It didnât make any more sense, but the rhythmic pulsing of Eurodance, anthem house, and good old fashion stadium trance are still something that fills my car until today just as it did riding with my parents to whatever errand we had to do. 2 Unlimited, Real McKoy, and Culture Beat still hold up, and in this instance, there was still some joy in the music. The great majority of those subgenres mentioned were in the first half of the decade, with psytrance and goa taking over the latter. However at around the half-way mark, I began to jump back into the rock inspired options.
</p>
<p>
Grunge left as quickly as it came. You could only be depressed in the western Seattle area so long before you either made it big and were happy or ended up as some goo on the floor next to some questionable evidence. Then was the maturation of another style that took its initial visual look from the fashion popularized by grunge, but ramped up the musical intensity into something completely different. No more moping and whining, now we were jumping, moshing, and head-banging our made-up frustrations awayâ¦in a fun way somehow. Gen-X only knew one volume, and that was hardcore, so what better name for the genre. Suicidal Tendencies, Biohazard, and Machine Head were bands that I missed out onâhence the desire to be born ever so slightly earlierâbut have found a place in my musical rotation since.
So just as grunge grew up fast, so did hardcore. Musically, the sound persisted, but not so much insofar as its raw intensity. Angst was certainly still in the air, so flannel was out and sports attire was in. We had entered the era of nu metal.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="music1.jpg" alt="The Hard & The Heavy" />
<figcaption>The Hard & The Heavy. Commercials 24/7</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Korn was the big kick off. I remember hearing about them in high school, but it took a few years before there were enough other bands to jump on the bandwagon and make it a full-fledged genre. Fortune smiled on me, and the whole movement kicked off as I went to college. Limp Bizkitâs was first introduced to me on IRC chat from distant frenemies whom I never met, but soon the radio was buzzing about the nookie, a term I had no idea as to what it meant and made the mistake of singing out loud before I did.
</p>
<p>
And far from it being a homogenous style, there were the technical applications of Mudvayne, the industrial tweaks of Spineshank, and of course the rap influence of pretty much every other participant. Nu Metal in fact had probably the longest run, even if the latter entries began to have little in common with the turntables and guttural growling from the start.
</p>
<p>
Industrial acts even had some crossover, with NIN spanning the decade, and the likes of Gravity Kills, Stabbing Westward, and KMFDM all getting there prime years smack in the middle. Iâd like to go into the alternative-rock sub-sub-genre, but that was to wide and weird to adequately encapsulate. Youâd have some sweet pop soundtrack with a screeching female vocal, sharing the airtime with BB King samples overlaid onto a downtempo dreamy rock song.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="music2.jpg" alt="Break out the 45s" />
<figcaption>Break out the 45s</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Back to nu metal. How did it end? Well many would say at Woodstock â99, but fans would be lying if the fires and anarchy didnât make them like the music even more. (Theyâd also be lying if they admitted to liking it ever, but thatâs another issue of the time). No, the real death was the sophomore album drop. Anticipation was high, but we were treated to more of the same, and the societal boundary pushing wasnât going to strike twice. Korn and Limp Bizkit escaped it to a degree since their first releases predated the mainstream popularity, but upon round three, it felt repetitive. Weâd also grown up a few more years in the process, so the target demographic had moved on to a degree.
</p>
<h2>
Technology
</h2>
<p>
Tech developments are sort of a given based on Mooreâs Law, and the progression over those years was certainly significant. The 70s brought refrigerator-sized computers down to the dawn of home PCs, and the 80s got said PCs into the homes of more than just the hobbyists. But the 90s dug full force into the useful applications of them.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="tech1.jpg" alt="You do remember Lotus 1-2-3, right?" />
<figcaption>You do remember Lotus 1-2-3, right?</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Macs had a graphical UI for some time, but 1990 introduced Windows 3.0, thus bringing everyone out of the command line era and making the mouse more than just an optional accessory. Platformers like Commander Keen and the first FPS games like Catacombs 3D squeezed out all they could from the EGA palette. But by the end in 1999, Quake 3 Arena was filling your screen with rendered curved surfaces, alpha-channel translucency, and volumetric fog, all powered by accelerated graphics cards that cost more than most of the other components in your setup combined.
</p>
<p>
But despite the progress, nothing really felt âfastâ. This was mainly due to the rapid progression of what we intended the computer to do, often leaping ahead of the hardware needed to do the job. I remember John Carmack of Doom and Quake fame saying that his projects generally were intended for specifications that didnât exist yet. I was usually caught in the pit of not having the latest gear to run something in an acceptable manner, as shown when Unreal became more of a slideshow than a fast-paced action shooter.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="tech2.jpg" alt="AA powered camera" />
<figcaption>AA powered camera</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
And of course the computer didnât start and end from the keyboard to the screen. Once the internet became more accessible, everything changed. Even in the earliest years, you could dial into a BBS and grab pictures and the latest shareware games. Such games were a radical shift in marketing at the time. No longer did you buy a game from a store and have to live with it, unchanged for all time. Now you could get up to a quarter of the full game for free, with no strings attached. If you liked it, then you could buy the rest right from the developer, cutting out the middleman.
</p>
<p>
By the middle of the decade, the web opened up. In addition to âsurfingâ other sites, most internet providers and some educational institutions would allow you to host your own. Staking out a small portion of the ânetâ was a rite of passage amongst early adopters, and the introduction of free hosts such as Geocities, Tripod, Angelfire, and Xoom only increased the proliferation of fan sites for every conceivable topic.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="tech3.jpg" alt="Someday I'll plug these in" />
<figcaption>Someday I'll plug these in</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
By the end, Flash became the dominant media form, allowing cartoons, introductory splash screens, and navigational menus. Sites also became less static, with either manually updated news sections, or database driven scripts that kept maintenance to a minimum. Just before blogging became less of a hurdle for entry into the online sphere, E/N or Everything/Nothing sites popped up, smashing together the randomness of an individualâs site with little to say against the content of personal fandom and thoughts. Some were terrible, others were great, but all claimed to denounce others who werenât true designers.
</p>
<p>
Much of these change bled over into the culture at large. Internet use wasnât the way it was later in the 2000s and certainly nothing like after the advent of social media where everyoneâs aunt Bertha could engage in passionate slacktivism about the social issue du jour.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="tech5.jpg" alt="Pentium Pro from 1996" />
<figcaption>Pentium Pro from 1996</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
No, in the 90s, the internet (and technology in general) was a wide void of mystery, able to do or solve almost anything. Hackers could tap away as a keyboard and gain access to the most secure of systems as long as they wore trendy sunglasses and had an alias with more numbers than letters. Virtual Reality would still be 25-years out in practical terms, but there were no shortage media like VR-5 and Full Moonâs Arcade that teased what the future may hold. The only constant was that if you died in VR, you died in real life. No exceptions.
</p>
<p>
The Gen-X crowd adopted the new culture most easily, for better or worse. It was an elite club for a while, and while there were certainly the younger AOL kids, the 15-25 demographic spent their time chatting on IRC chat, pirating warez, and tricking each other into opening shock sites filled with all sort of graphic crime scenes. I saw my first murder before ever going to a class dance, so growing up was never going to be the same.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="tech4.jpg" alt="Up to 30 minutes of music" />
<figcaption>Up to 30 minutes of music</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>
Life
</h2>
<p>
So itâs easy to outline what external influences were present during a given time, but what was life actually like on a day to day basis? The short answer: it could be really boring.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="life1.jpg" alt="Now you need cataract surgury to justify those shades" />
<figcaption>Now you need cataract surgury to justify those shades</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Often I hear, âWhat would kids do without their phones/computer/electronics?â Everyone needs a phone to diddle with or a video game to pass the car ride. Itâs easy to assume that the current generation is dumbed down with such an array of readily available stimuliâand perhaps thatâs true in some senses, but Iâm not here to stoke the inter-generational embersâbut in truth, we were really bored quite often without something to pass the time. In the same line of thinking, this could be seen as a net positive, as the youth would need to be more creative in order to entertain themselves.
</p>
<p>
Thatâs certainly not wrong. We had comic books, the over-the-air TV, notebooks to draw in, home movies to film, and an attic of toys to play with. Home movies in particular played a large role in our free time. Starting with a simple Video8 cassette recorder, we filmed skits and such in a strict linear order without any way to edit it. By the very end in 1999, we had a capture card for the computer and even dipped into the digital world with mini-DV.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="life2.png" alt="Playing in Dirt" />
<figcaption>Playing in Dirt</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
That said, there were the dull time, specifically if you had the dreaded trip to your parentâs job. Eight hours of precious nothing to do in an emotional vacuum. Going stir-crazy didnât begin to describe the horror of making it through to the end. The vending machine only provided so many outlets for alleviating the doldrums, all while you tried to remain quiet and not bug the adults who were trying to get something done. Frequent bathroom visits became a break from the sensory deprivation chamber, and sometimes the vending machine could work in tandem, helping complete the sugary soda/pee break loop.
</p>
<p>
In the end, I wouldnât trade those days. Sure, I can always have something to fuel my attention despite how much I try to put the phone down, but sometimes I feel like much of this is idle wasted time. Thatâs probably why Iâm writing thisâ¦to create something and use technology to add to my life experience rather than drain it.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="life3.png" alt="You'll get 3 channels and be happy" />
<figcaption>You'll get 3 channels and be happy</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Photo albums from film have turned into a Flickr account of tagged and chronologically sorted digital snapshots. My six-year never-missed-a-day journal has been replaced with a scattering of blog updates and social media posts that can document my life down to the minute. Probably the only thing that has taken a strange turn, lay in the music that we consume.
</p>
<p>
The trend of physical media to digital streaming is obvious, but the path to this end point is neither straightforward nor the only conclusion. In the earliest days of the 90s, there was only one choice for both your audio and video needs: tapes. Music would be on cassettes and video on VHS. Annoying in some regard, but there was some benefit to keeping your spot no matter how long of a break you took. Just remember to âBe Kind, Rewindâ else youâre going to have an extra dollar added to your rental fee.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="life4.png" alt="These are going to be worth so much, one day" />
<figcaption>These are going to be worth so much, one day</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
Eventually both transitioned into a disc format, with CDs taking a several year lead on DVD. Improving not only in quality, bonus features on DVDs and hidden tracks on CDs were novel ways to enjoy the new format. Later, movies easily shifted into their streaming offerings once high-speed bandwidth became available and HD discs, such as BluRay and HDDVD, slipped in popularity.
</p>
<p>
But music took a few detours. There was some tinkering with a high-def CD option, but no one was going to upgrade their music players with the same enthusiasm they did with their TVs. Instead, the digital option took hold early, just not in the way the industry wanted. Much has been made over Napster, MP3s and the controversy that Metallica made over it. In a stroke of irony, I had grabbed all of their discography before Napster debuted by finding FTP sites strewn about the internet, some requiring ratios (uploading some sort of data as a requirement to download a greater amount in return) before getting what you needed. This went back and forth for a while, eventually merging into the services we know today.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="life5.png" alt="Don't even complain about 720p again" />
<figcaption>Don't even complain about 720p again</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>
In Summary
</h2>
<p>
If I had to define the 90s in some concrete terms, Iâd say it was the last time where we were able to remain disconnected. Is this a good thing? I canât say. Cell phones are useful in a pinch, the internet is great for finding answers, and social media is handy for keeping in contact with those who you wouldnât otherwise. But cell phones mean youâre always within reach. The internet gives you answers but overwhelms you ten-fold with white noise. And social media has unleashed a shift in humanity that no one could anticipate nor adequately adapt.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="summ2.jpg" alt="On the set of the latest hit home movie" />
<figcaption>On the set of the latest hit home movie</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
We found music by listening to the radio and then blindly hoping the rest of the album was good when we finally bought it. If it werenât, then you just lived with it. We watched movies by renting them at a store and had to get through them by the next day. VHS tapes were $100, so the next best thing was to record your own and try to splice out the commercials. When all else failed, there were TV shows that only aired at certain times, and missing one meant you had to wait until syndication during the summer months to try catching it again.
Research for school assignments was done out of the 1964 encyclopedia your mom still held onto. Phones didnât have caller ID and picking up the receiver elsewhere in the house would relay the same conversation. This same receiver would also kill any lengthy download that may have been in progress for hours in order to grab a single song or large photo.
</p>
<p>
Contact with friends remained primarily at school or church, and sometimes on the weekends if they could come over. A telephone call was the only way to get ahold of them but ran the risk of having to talk to their parents, which was never fun. Eventually e-mail gave us a digital alternative, even if it were mainly used to forward off-color proto-memes and rather offensive chain mails.
At airports, families could wander all the way to the boarding gate to wish travelers a safe trip, and you didnât even have to take off your shoes. Ten dollars filled up the gas tank in your â88 Chevy for a week, despite no attempt at fuel efficiency. No one cared about politics because the nightly news only relayed the local happenings, and thatâs as much effort as anyone gave current events. I literally had no idea who was running for president until it was over.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="summ1.jpg" alt="Perfecting the technique of strafe-lagging" />
<figcaption>Perfecting the technique of strafe-lagging</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>
So while Iâm certainly thankful for many of the advancements that have arrived since, I look back on those years fondly for their simplicity. Now pardon me, I need to go play some Doom and pretend I wasnât totally more into Quake at the time.
</p>
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# Shaped by the 90s
###### 6/2/2022
The 90s: last in the lineup of cool decade names. I suppose the early 2000s, in all their newfound nostalgia for the old web and the like, have been called the ânaughtsâ, but it just doesnât have the same ring. Also in theory, weâre back to the 20s, but for simplicityâs sake I prefer to keep such namesakes confined to the twentieth-century.
Alongside its partner in crime, the 80s, the decade was a hot bed for pop culture, aesthetics, and deep-seated nostalgia. But much like my imagining of the 50s being full of rollerskate-delivered fast food, poodle skirts, and the luxury of surviving on a single income, it was more likely to also include pervasive cigarette smoke, inadequate dental care, and hand-me-downs that didnât match what was generally accepted to be in vogue.
So what of the 90s in that regard? Was everything zig-zag confetti-themed? Did neon-purple triangles dominate every advertising theme? Did anyone unironically wear a bucket hat? Well Iâm going to dig in and see what exists only as a trope of the zeitgeist, and what life was actually like.
Except for that last one, which I will answer right now: it was in fashion for one month in 1999, then it disappeared.
If I were to be born again, Iâd only tweak the year slightly and dial it back to 1976. This would mainly allow me to reap some of the early 80s toys, and then place me as a young adult in the 90s so I could enjoy some of the concerts that would never be the same again. That said, my current standing allowed the gamut of my formative years to all fit neatly into the decade at hand.
And what a gamut it was⦠We started with the last remnants of hair metal and ended up with nu metal. Cartoons went from Saturday morning excuses to sell merchandise to South Park and the twisted MTV animated blocks. Geometric designs to cyberpunk. Even hats made the shocking transition from being worn normally to being worn backwards. Earth-shattering, I know.
##
Style
Jams and Homemade Clothes
So letâs dial back to the beginning. Like any transitional period, there is some bleed over from the time just before. When I think of the 80s, itâs easy to imagine flashy video games, neon lights, and outrageous pop music. While a fair amount of that is true, Iâd generally pin a lot of that on the first few years of the 90s, and leave the majority of the previous decade with leaded gasoline, endless boredom without the internet, and those corduroy pants that made the swish-swish-swish sound when you walked.
Truly the biggest aesthetic stereotype that needs to sit on the latter side of the fence is the bright eye-blinding neons that were everywhere. Maybe the 80s had actual neon lights in bars and stuff where smoke filled the air, but otherwise the timeframe was filled with dark and flat color schemes. Not so a few short years later, when everything came alive. From slap bracelets to translucent phones, you could only stare at objects for so long before risking permanent vision damage. Remember Lisa Frank stickers and file folders? Yes, thatâs a design choice that sits firmly where you think it should. You werenât cool in school unless you could reflect the sunâs damaging rays into the faces of your peers.
AOL: It's Free
Did the colors last? Sadly no. Well maybe on consumer products, but in advertising it was shifting ever so slightly. Most often seen on the bumpers between shows on the newly formed Fox television channel, everything went pastel, and gradients gave way to abstract shapes. Spirals, squiggles, and dots would pulsate and jump in a two-frame animation set against a background that abandoned all semblance of color theory.
Then grunge hit. As quickly as one theme began, it was cast aside for gritty realism filled with scuff, scrapes, and graffiti. Finally as the decade came to an end, a new cultural shift started to take hold. I attribute this change to two things: the internet (and any new technology that the older generation didnât want to learn) and the bulk of Generation-X become teens and young adults. Mass media started to cater to this X-treme group, so everything became edgy, loud, and in your face. The slacker generation became the hacker generation, attention spans were shortened, and matrix code dripped across anything that seemed remotely computeryish. It certainly didnât end there as the 2000s would run with this motif in full force, but thatâs another article for another time.
Fractals were all the rage
##
Music
Music took another interesting journey. As with design choices, we carried over many of the genres that had their start in the late 80s. Hair metal was on its way out, but didnât completely die. Even if the musical stylings faded, the long hair persisted for a time, and though it wasnât frizzed and teased, it still fell below the shoulder. Look at any of the grunge bands in 1991 compared to 1996, and youâll see what I mean. Rap and Hip-Hop also began earlier, but found a foothold soon with a darker and grittier edge to it. Like the grunge movement, things had shifted from fun and light to something more dire and serious. Iâm not entirely sure why, since I feel like the 90s were a more carefree time, but perhaps good times make whiney people. I donât know.
That said, the shift that resonates with me the most is the one from vapid 80s pop to vapid 90s dance. It didnât make any more sense, but the rhythmic pulsing of Eurodance, anthem house, and good old fashion stadium trance are still something that fills my car until today just as it did riding with my parents to whatever errand we had to do. 2 Unlimited, Real McKoy, and Culture Beat still hold up, and in this instance, there was still some joy in the music. The great majority of those subgenres mentioned were in the first half of the decade, with psytrance and goa taking over the latter. However at around the half-way mark, I began to jump back into the rock inspired options.
Grunge left as quickly as it came. You could only be depressed in the western Seattle area so long before you either made it big and were happy or ended up as some goo on the floor next to some questionable evidence. Then was the maturation of another style that took its initial visual look from the fashion popularized by grunge, but ramped up the musical intensity into something completely different. No more moping and whining, now we were jumping, moshing, and head-banging our made-up frustrations awayâ¦in a fun way somehow. Gen-X only knew one volume, and that was hardcore, so what better name for the genre. Suicidal Tendencies, Biohazard, and Machine Head were bands that I missed out onâhence the desire to be born ever so slightly earlierâbut have found a place in my musical rotation since.
So just as grunge grew up fast, so did hardcore. Musically, the sound persisted, but not so much insofar as its raw intensity. Angst was certainly still in the air, so flannel was out and sports attire was in. We had entered the era of nu metal.
The Hard & The Heavy. Commercials 24/7
Korn was the big kick off. I remember hearing about them in high school, but it took a few years before there were enough other bands to jump on the bandwagon and make it a full-fledged genre. Fortune smiled on me, and the whole movement kicked off as I went to college. Limp Bizkitâs was first introduced to me on IRC chat from distant frenemies whom I never met, but soon the radio was buzzing about the nookie, a term I had no idea as to what it meant and made the mistake of singing out loud before I did.
And far from it being a homogenous style, there were the technical applications of Mudvayne, the industrial tweaks of Spineshank, and of course the rap influence of pretty much every other participant. Nu Metal in fact had probably the longest run, even if the latter entries began to have little in common with the turntables and guttural growling from the start.
Industrial acts even had some crossover, with NIN spanning the decade, and the likes of Gravity Kills, Stabbing Westward, and KMFDM all getting there prime years smack in the middle. Iâd like to go into the alternative-rock sub-sub-genre, but that was to wide and weird to adequately encapsulate. Youâd have some sweet pop soundtrack with a screeching female vocal, sharing the airtime with BB King samples overlaid onto a downtempo dreamy rock song.
Break out the 45s
Back to nu metal. How did it end? Well many would say at Woodstock â99, but fans would be lying if the fires and anarchy didnât make them like the music even more. (Theyâd also be lying if they admitted to liking it ever, but thatâs another issue of the time). No, the real death was the sophomore album drop. Anticipation was high, but we were treated to more of the same, and the societal boundary pushing wasnât going to strike twice. Korn and Limp Bizkit escaped it to a degree since their first releases predated the mainstream popularity, but upon round three, it felt repetitive. Weâd also grown up a few more years in the process, so the target demographic had moved on to a degree.
##
Technology
Tech developments are sort of a given based on Mooreâs Law, and the progression over those years was certainly significant. The 70s brought refrigerator-sized computers down to the dawn of home PCs, and the 80s got said PCs into the homes of more than just the hobbyists. But the 90s dug full force into the useful applications of them.
You do remember Lotus 1-2-3, right?
Macs had a graphical UI for some time, but 1990 introduced Windows 3.0, thus bringing everyone out of the command line era and making the mouse more than just an optional accessory. Platformers like Commander Keen and the first FPS games like Catacombs 3D squeezed out all they could from the EGA palette. But by the end in 1999, Quake 3 Arena was filling your screen with rendered curved surfaces, alpha-channel translucency, and volumetric fog, all powered by accelerated graphics cards that cost more than most of the other components in your setup combined.
But despite the progress, nothing really felt âfastâ. This was mainly due to the rapid progression of what we intended the computer to do, often leaping ahead of the hardware needed to do the job. I remember John Carmack of Doom and Quake fame saying that his projects generally were intended for specifications that didnât exist yet. I was usually caught in the pit of not having the latest gear to run something in an acceptable manner, as shown when Unreal became more of a slideshow than a fast-paced action shooter.
AA powered camera
And of course the computer didnât start and end from the keyboard to the screen. Once the internet became more accessible, everything changed. Even in the earliest years, you could dial into a BBS and grab pictures and the latest shareware games. Such games were a radical shift in marketing at the time. No longer did you buy a game from a store and have to live with it, unchanged for all time. Now you could get up to a quarter of the full game for free, with no strings attached. If you liked it, then you could buy the rest right from the developer, cutting out the middleman.
By the middle of the decade, the web opened up. In addition to âsurfingâ other sites, most internet providers and some educational institutions would allow you to host your own. Staking out a small portion of the ânetâ was a rite of passage amongst early adopters, and the introduction of free hosts such as Geocities, Tripod, Angelfire, and Xoom only increased the proliferation of fan sites for every conceivable topic.
Someday I'll plug these in
By the end, Flash became the dominant media form, allowing cartoons, introductory splash screens, and navigational menus. Sites also became less static, with either manually updated news sections, or database driven scripts that kept maintenance to a minimum. Just before blogging became less of a hurdle for entry into the online sphere, E/N or Everything/Nothing sites popped up, smashing together the randomness of an individualâs site with little to say against the content of personal fandom and thoughts. Some were terrible, others were great, but all claimed to denounce others who werenât true designers.
Much of these change bled over into the culture at large. Internet use wasnât the way it was later in the 2000s and certainly nothing like after the advent of social media where everyoneâs aunt Bertha could engage in passionate slacktivism about the social issue du jour.
Pentium Pro from 1996
No, in the 90s, the internet (and technology in general) was a wide void of mystery, able to do or solve almost anything. Hackers could tap away as a keyboard and gain access to the most secure of systems as long as they wore trendy sunglasses and had an alias with more numbers than letters. Virtual Reality would still be 25-years out in practical terms, but there were no shortage media like VR-5 and Full Moonâs Arcade that teased what the future may hold. The only constant was that if you died in VR, you died in real life. No exceptions.
The Gen-X crowd adopted the new culture most easily, for better or worse. It was an elite club for a while, and while there were certainly the younger AOL kids, the 15-25 demographic spent their time chatting on IRC chat, pirating warez, and tricking each other into opening shock sites filled with all sort of graphic crime scenes. I saw my first murder before ever going to a class dance, so growing up was never going to be the same.
Up to 30 minutes of music
##
Life
So itâs easy to outline what external influences were present during a given time, but what was life actually like on a day to day basis? The short answer: it could be really boring.
Now you need cataract surgury to justify those shades
Often I hear, âWhat would kids do without their phones/computer/electronics?â Everyone needs a phone to diddle with or a video game to pass the car ride. Itâs easy to assume that the current generation is dumbed down with such an array of readily available stimuliâand perhaps thatâs true in some senses, but Iâm not here to stoke the inter-generational embersâbut in truth, we were really bored quite often without something to pass the time. In the same line of thinking, this could be seen as a net positive, as the youth would need to be more creative in order to entertain themselves.
Thatâs certainly not wrong. We had comic books, the over-the-air TV, notebooks to draw in, home movies to film, and an attic of toys to play with. Home movies in particular played a large role in our free time. Starting with a simple Video8 cassette recorder, we filmed skits and such in a strict linear order without any way to edit it. By the very end in 1999, we had a capture card for the computer and even dipped into the digital world with mini-DV.
Playing in Dirt
That said, there were the dull time, specifically if you had the dreaded trip to your parentâs job. Eight hours of precious nothing to do in an emotional vacuum. Going stir-crazy didnât begin to describe the horror of making it through to the end. The vending machine only provided so many outlets for alleviating the doldrums, all while you tried to remain quiet and not bug the adults who were trying to get something done. Frequent bathroom visits became a break from the sensory deprivation chamber, and sometimes the vending machine could work in tandem, helping complete the sugary soda/pee break loop.
In the end, I wouldnât trade those days. Sure, I can always have something to fuel my attention despite how much I try to put the phone down, but sometimes I feel like much of this is idle wasted time. Thatâs probably why Iâm writing thisâ¦to create something and use technology to add to my life experience rather than drain it.
You'll get 3 channels and be happy
Photo albums from film have turned into a Flickr account of tagged and chronologically sorted digital snapshots. My six-year never-missed-a-day journal has been replaced with a scattering of blog updates and social media posts that can document my life down to the minute. Probably the only thing that has taken a strange turn, lay in the music that we consume.
The trend of physical media to digital streaming is obvious, but the path to this end point is neither straightforward nor the only conclusion. In the earliest days of the 90s, there was only one choice for both your audio and video needs: tapes. Music would be on cassettes and video on VHS. Annoying in some regard, but there was some benefit to keeping your spot no matter how long of a break you took. Just remember to âBe Kind, Rewindâ else youâre going to have an extra dollar added to your rental fee.
These are going to be worth so much, one day
Eventually both transitioned into a disc format, with CDs taking a several year lead on DVD. Improving not only in quality, bonus features on DVDs and hidden tracks on CDs were novel ways to enjoy the new format. Later, movies easily shifted into their streaming offerings once high-speed bandwidth became available and HD discs, such as BluRay and HDDVD, slipped in popularity.
But music took a few detours. There was some tinkering with a high-def CD option, but no one was going to upgrade their music players with the same enthusiasm they did with their TVs. Instead, the digital option took hold early, just not in the way the industry wanted. Much has been made over Napster, MP3s and the controversy that Metallica made over it. In a stroke of irony, I had grabbed all of their discography before Napster debuted by finding FTP sites strewn about the internet, some requiring ratios (uploading some sort of data as a requirement to download a greater amount in return) before getting what you needed. This went back and forth for a while, eventually merging into the services we know today.
Don't even complain about 720p again
##
In Summary
If I had to define the 90s in some concrete terms, Iâd say it was the last time where we were able to remain disconnected. Is this a good thing? I canât say. Cell phones are useful in a pinch, the internet is great for finding answers, and social media is handy for keeping in contact with those who you wouldnât otherwise. But cell phones mean youâre always within reach. The internet gives you answers but overwhelms you ten-fold with white noise. And social media has unleashed a shift in humanity that no one could anticipate nor adequately adapt.
On the set of the latest hit home movie
We found music by listening to the radio and then blindly hoping the rest of the album was good when we finally bought it. If it werenât, then you just lived with it. We watched movies by renting them at a store and had to get through them by the next day. VHS tapes were $100, so the next best thing was to record your own and try to splice out the commercials. When all else failed, there were TV shows that only aired at certain times, and missing one meant you had to wait until syndication during the summer months to try catching it again.
Research for school assignments was done out of the 1964 encyclopedia your mom still held onto. Phones didnât have caller ID and picking up the receiver elsewhere in the house would relay the same conversation. This same receiver would also kill any lengthy download that may have been in progress for hours in order to grab a single song or large photo.
Contact with friends remained primarily at school or church, and sometimes on the weekends if they could come over. A telephone call was the only way to get ahold of them but ran the risk of having to talk to their parents, which was never fun. Eventually e-mail gave us a digital alternative, even if it were mainly used to forward off-color proto-memes and rather offensive chain mails.
At airports, families could wander all the way to the boarding gate to wish travelers a safe trip, and you didnât even have to take off your shoes. Ten dollars filled up the gas tank in your â88 Chevy for a week, despite no attempt at fuel efficiency. No one cared about politics because the nightly news only relayed the local happenings, and thatâs as much effort as anyone gave current events. I literally had no idea who was running for president until it was over.
Perfecting the technique of strafe-lagging
So while Iâm certainly thankful for many of the advancements that have arrived since, I look back on those years fondly for their simplicity. Now pardon me, I need to go play some Doom and pretend I wasnât totally more into Quake at the time.
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<p class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/headgreywater.lbi" --><span class="linkbar d-none d-sm-block"><b><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Greywatercentral.lbi" --><a href="index.htm">Greywater central</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> </b>
| <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-GWbooksAndVideo.lbi" --><a href="../catalog/index.htm#how""> Greywater how-to books & video</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> | <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-CommonGWmistakes.lbi" --><a href="misinfo/index.htm">Common greywater mistakes</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> | <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Graywaterpolicycentral.lbi" --><a href="law/index.htm">Greywater policy center</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> | <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Z-QAgreywater.lbi" --><a href="../faq/index.htm#greywater">Grey water Q&A</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></span><!-- #EndLibraryItem --><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/urhere.lbi" --><i>You are here: </i><a href="../index.htm"> <b>Home</b></a>
><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Greywatercentral.lbi" --><a href="index.htm">Greywater central</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></p>
<h1 align="center">Grey Water Central</h1>
<h3 class="pgsubtitle">The web's information central on all aspects of grey water systems from the leading innovators and producers of greywater information</h3>
<div class="container pgabstract" align="left">
<div height="104" class="pgabstract">
<div class="row">
<div class="col-sm">
<p>
Why to use grey water, how to choose, build and use grey water reuse systems, regulations, studies, science and examples. Grey water irrigation, treatment, filtration, low tech DIY systems, high tech indoor grey water reuse... </p>
<p class="smallitalic"><i>For homeowners, do-it-yourselfers, regulators, inspectors, elected officials, building departments, health departments, builders, and activists.</i></p>
</div>
<div class="col pgcontentsbox">
<p><b><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/onthispage.lbi" --><b>On this page:</b><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></b></p>
<ul class="linkbar">
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#trust" class="linkinpage">Why you can trust this information</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#what" class="linkinpage">What is grey water?</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#why" class="linkinpage">Why use grey water?</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#safe" class="linkinpage">Is grey water reuse safe?</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#legal" class="linkinpage">Is grey water legal?</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#benefits" class="linkinpage">The benefits of grey water recycling</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="#reading" class="linkinpage">Further reading and watching</a></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p align="center"><a href="laundry/index.htm"><img src="../images/img_education/MissionLavanderiaCR.jpg" width="278" height="233" align="middle"></a></p>
<p align="left"><i><a name="intro" id="intro"></a></i></p><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZB-WhyTrustBlurb.lbi" --><h2><i><a name="trust" id="trust"></a>Why you can trust this information</i></h2>
<p><i>The quality and credibility of our information is the key to our livelihood; most of our income is from information. We have developed numerous greywater reuse innovations, perhaps more than any other single source. All have been published unpatented into the public domain. <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/1.lbi" --><i>We don't have much stake in any particular system, whereas our livlihood depends on being a trustworthy information source for all ecological design. Where <strong>no</strong> greywater system is appropriate, we gain credibility by saying so. Likewise if a manufactured system is more suited than a DIY system we developed. When a better way of reusing greywater is found, we just update our information—we don't have a warehouse full of obsolete systems to sell through. (Our main greywater book is currently in its 19th revision)</i><i>. </i><!-- #EndLibraryItem --><More about <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZB-WhyTrustPage.lbi" --><a href="../about/trust.htm">Why trust this info</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->></i></p>
<!-- #EndLibraryItem --><p align="left"><i>
<!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Support.lbi" --> <i>You'll find older versions of this content replicated all over the web; this is the source. We appreciate your <a href="../about/linktous.htm">links</a>, likes, and <a href="../catalog/index.htm#greywater">direct book purchases</a>; they support our public service research, development, and free content.</i><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></i></p>
<p align="left"><i>We hope this information helps you manage your resources wisely--</i></p>
<p align="left"><i>--The Oasis Team</i> <!-- AddToAny BEGIN --></p>
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<p align="left"> </p>
<a name="blurb"></a></h3>
<h2 align="left"><a name="what"></a>What is grey water?</h2>
<p>Any washwater that has been used in the home, except water from toilets,
is called grey water. Dish, shower, sink, and laundry water comprise
50-80% of residential "waste" water. This may be reused for
other purposes, especially landscape irrigation. </p>
<p class="smallitalic">(This is the definition common in Europe and Australia. Some jurisdictions in the US exclude kitchen sink water and diaper wash water from their definition of grey water. These are most accurately defined as "dark grey water")</p>
<p align="center" class="textcaption"><img src="../images/img_book/GraywaterPermacultureGardBR.jpg" width="214" height="250" alt="Beautiful permaculture garden irrigated with branched drain gray water system">
<br>
Greywater
irrigated garden in state of CA study</p>
<h2><a name="why" id="why"></a>Why use grey water?</h2>
<p>It's a waste to irrigate with great quantities of drinking water when
plants thrive on used water containing small bits of compost. Unlike
a lot of ecological stopgap measures, grey water reuse is a part of
the fundamental solution to many ecological problems and will probably
remain essentially unchanged in the distant future. The benefits of
grey water recycling include: </p>
<ul>
<li>
<div> Lower fresh water use</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Less strain on failing septic tank or treatment plant</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Better treatment (topsoil is many times more effective than subsoil or treatment plant)</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Less energy and chemical use</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Groundwater recharge </div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Plant growth </div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Reclamation of otherwise wasted nutrients</div>
</li>
<li>Increased awareness of and sensitivity to natural cycles</li>
</ul>
<p align="center"><img src="../images/img_tc5/PermacultureHarvest4.00_172.jpg" alt="Fruit harvested from agro-forestry system. " width="336" height="150" align="middle"></p>
<p align="center" class="textcaption">Healthy fruit from sanitary irrigation of edible
landscape </p>
<h2><a name="matter"></a>Why does grey water matter?</h2>
<p>Viewed narrowly, grey water systems don’t look that important. A low flow showerhead can save water with less effort. A septic system can treat grey water almost as well.<br>
But when you look at the whole picture—how everything connects—the keystone importance of grey water is revealed.</p>
<ul>
<li>Ecological systems design is about context, and integration between systems. The entirety of integrated, ecological design can be reduced to one sentence: <i>do what's appropriate for the context.</i> <br>
</li>
<li>Ecological systems—rainwater harvesting, runoff management, passive solar, composting toilets, edible landscaping—all of these are more context sensitive than their counterparts in conventional practice; that's most of what makes them more ecological. <br>
</li>
<li>Grey water systems are more context sensitive than any other man-made ecological system, and more connected to more other systems.<br>
</li>
<li>Get the grey water just right, and you’ve got the whole package right—and that matters.</li>
</ul>
<p>Many people and organizations instinctively recognize that grey water is the ideal test case for the transition to a new way of regulating and building that is appropriate to a post-peak resource, mature civilization. </p>
<p>The US Green Building Council, the City of Santa Barbara, CA, Oregon ReCode, and SLO Green Build are among those organizations which independently chose grey water standards as the technology with which to launch their programs of regulatory reform. </p>
<h2><a name="safe"></a>Is grey water reuse safe?</h2>
<p>Yes. There are eight million grey water systems in the US with 22 million users. In 60 years, there have been one <i>billion </i>system user-years of exposure, yet there has not been one documented case of grey water transmitted illness. </p>
<p><i>(In contrast, 400 Americans get hit by lightning each year. <a href="law/california/index.htm">More details</a>, <a href="law/california/index.htm#references">calculations and references</a>). </i> </p>
<h2><a name="legal"></a>Is grey water legal?</h2>
<p>In practice, grey water legality is virtually never an issue for residential retrofit systems—everyone just bootlegs them. However, grey water legality is almost always an issue for permitted new construction and remodeling, unless you're in a visionary state such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas (and soon, NV, MT, OR, and CA).<i> For details see our <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Graywaterpolicycentral.lbi" class="texttablehead" --><a href="law/index.htm">Greywater policy center</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> and <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-BuildersGWbook.lbi" --> <a href="/greywater/buildersguide/index.htm">Builder's GW Guide<i>-book</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->.</i> </p>
<p align="left"><a href="law/california/index.htm#references"><img src="law/GraywaterDataCalcs.png" width="1133" height="850"></a></p>
<h2><a name="benefits"></a>The benefits of grey water recycling (in detail)</h2>
<h3> <i>Lower fresh water use</i></h3>
<p> Grey water can replace fresh water in many instances, saving money and increasing
the effective water supply in regions where irrigation is needed. Residential
water use is almost evenly split between indoor and outdoor. All except toilet
water could be recycled outdoors, achieving the same result with significantly
less water diverted from nature. </p>
<h3><i>Less strain on septic tank or treatment plant</i></h3>
<p> Grey water use greatly extends the useful life and capacity of septic systems.
For municipal treatment systems, decreased wastewater flow means higher treatment
effectiveness and lower costs.</p>
<h3> <i>Highly effective purification </i></h3>
<p>Grey water is purified to a spectacularly high degree in the upper, most biologically
active region of the soil. This protects the quality of natural surface and
ground waters.</p>
<h3> <i>Works on sites unsuitable for a septic tank </i></h3>
<p>For sites with slow soil percolation or other problems, a grey water system
can be a partial or complete substitute for a very costly, over-engineered system. </p>
<h3><i>Less energy and chemical use </i></h3>
<p>Less energy and chemicals are used due to the reduced amount of both freshwater
and wastewater that needs pumping and treatment. For those providing their own
water or electricity, the advantage of a reduced burden on the infrastructure
is felt directly. Also, treating your wastewater in the soil under your own
fruit trees definitely encourages you to dump fewer toxic chemicals down the
drain.</p>
<h3> <i>Groundwater recharge</i></h3>
<p> Grey water application in excess of plant needs recharges groundwater. </p>
<h3><i>Plant growth</i></h3>
<p> Grey water enables a landscape to flourish where water may not otherwise be
available to support much plant growth.</p>
<h3> <i>Reclamation of otherwise wasted nutrients </i></h3>
<p>Loss of nutrients through wastewater disposal in rivers or oceans is a subtle,
but highly significant form of erosion. Reclaiming nutrients in grey water helps
to maintain the fertility of the land. </p>
<h3><i>Increased awareness of and sensitivity to natural cycles </i></h3>
<p>Grey water use yields the satisfaction of taking responsibility for the wise
husbandry of an important resource. </p>
<h2 align="left"><a name="reading" id="reading"></a>Full how-to details from our store</h2>
<ul><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-SeeAlsoGWbooksVideoORDER.lbi" --><li><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-GWbooksAndVideo.lbi" --><a href="../catalog/index.htm#how""> Greywater how-to books & video</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> Set <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Order-NCO-BG-PED-L2L.lbi" --><a href="http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=NCO-BG-PED-L2L"><img src="../images/img_site/add2cartUC.gif" width="89" height="20" border="0" align="absmiddle"></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->âAll our greywater books and video together at a discount</li>
<li><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-CreateanOasis-SHORT.lbi" --><a href="createanoasis/index.htm">Oasis greywater-<i>book</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Order-NCO.lbi" --> <a href="http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=nco9780964343337"><img src="../images/img_site/add2cartUC.gif" width="89" height="20" border="0" align="absmiddle"></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->âHow to choose, build and use 17 types of greywater systems</li>
<li><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-L2Lvideo.lbi" --><a href="laundry/video/index.htm">Laundry 2 landscape<i>-video</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Order-L2L-download.lbi" --><a href="http://secure.oasisdesign.net/cgi-bin/UCEditor?merchantId=OASIS&ADD=L2L-VIDEO"><img src="../images/img_site/add2cartUC.gif" width="89" height="20" border="0" align="absmiddle"></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->âHow to build our simplest, most economical system from start to finish</li>
<li><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-BuildersGWbook.lbi" --> <a href="/greywater/buildersguide/index.htm">Builder's GW Guide<i>-book</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --> <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Order-BG.lbi" --><a href="http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=bg0964343320"><img src="../images/img_site/add2cartUC.gif" width="89" height="20" border="0" align="absmiddle"></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->âPermitted greywater systems in new construction and remodeling, info for regulators and policymaker</li>
<!-- #EndLibraryItem --><li>Excerpt from our instructional <!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-L2Lvideo.lbi" --><a href="laundry/video/index.htm">Laundry 2 landscape<i>-video</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->: </li>
</ul>
<!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Laundry2land-VideoCLIP.lbi" --><!--Youtube Embed Code-->
<div style="padding-bottom: 56.25%; max-width: 100%; position: relative;"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eaHgvPj9_nA?fs=0&modestbranding=1&rel=0" width="800" height="450" style="position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px; width: 100%; height: 100%;" frameborder="0" allow="fullscreen;"></iframe></div>
<!--Youtube Embed Code--><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->
<p> </p>
<h4>Further reading and watchingâon this site</h4>
<ul>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-CommonGWmistakes.lbi" --><a href="misinfo/index.htm">Common greywater mistakes</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->and preferred practices</li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Z-QAgreywater.lbi" --><a href="../faq/index.htm#greywater">Grey water Q&A</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Greywaterlinks.lbi" --> <a href="references.htm">Grey water links</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZD-Consulting.lbi" --><a href="../design/consult/index.htm">Consulting</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-IndoorReuse.lbi" --><a href="indoors/index.htm">Indoor greywater reuse</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Buildersactionsummary.lbi" --> <a href="buildersguide/actionssummary.htm">Builder's action summary</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-GreywaterWorkshop.lbi" class="linkbar" class="linkbar" class="linkbar" --><a href="workshop/index.htm">Gray water workshop</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-ConsAguaGris.lbi" --><a href="aguasgrises.htm">Aguas grises<i>-Español</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-GWcoldClimate.lbi" --><a href="../faq/gwCold.htm">Greywater in cold climates</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/Zf-GWpressroom.lbi" --><a href="press/index.htm">Greywater pressroom</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
</ul>
<h4>System examples</h4>
<ul>
<li class="linkbar"> <b><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Laundry2land.lbi" --><a href="laundry/index.htm">Laundry to landscape</a>
<!-- #EndLibraryItem --></b></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-SystemselectionchartPDF.lbi" --><a href="createanoasis/systemchart.pdf">System selection chart<i>-pdf</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="../greywater/buildersguide/index.htm#brancheddrain">Branched
drain system explanation</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"> <a href="castudy.pdf">Branched drain system example</a> (PDF)</li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="../design/examples/maruata/maruata2.htm#greywater">Branched
drain in indigenous community</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="../design/examples/huehue.htm#greywater">Manual
grey water systems of Huehuetortuga</a></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-GWSsiteAssess.lbi" --><a href="createanoasis/GWSiteAssessmentForm.pdf">GW site assessment checklist<i>-pdf</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
</ul>
<h4>Grey water regulation</h4>
<ul>
<li class="linkbar"><b><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Graywaterpolicycentral.lbi" class="texttablehead" --><a href="law/index.htm">Greywater policy center</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></b></li>
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<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Greywaterpress.lbi" --><a href="press/index.htm">Greywater press center</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-ModelGWOrdinance.lbi" -->
<a href="law/improve/ModelGreywaterOrdinance.pdf">Model greywater rules<i> (pdf)</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
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<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-Stubouts.lbi" --><a href="stubout.htm">Stub outs</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
</ul>
<h4>Grey water research and science</h4>
<ul>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZE-Fecalcoliformmeasure.lbi" class="linkbar" --><a href="../water/quality/coliform.htm">Fecal coliform counts</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-TreatmentVSapDepth.lbi" --><a href="../images/img_hires/PollutionPlumesByDepth.jpg">Treatment vs application depth<i>-pdf</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZF-CaliforniastudyPDF.lbi" class="linkbar" --><a href="http://www.water.ca.gov/wateruseefficiency/docs/monitoringGW_Use.pdf" class="linkexternal">Monitoring Graywater Use: Three Case Studies in California <i>(pdf)</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><a href="http://www.werf.org/WERFDownload.aspx?ContentKey=b588da38-c38d-425e-9699-4a2285f43d77&ContentItemKey=765b2d78-922d-4c7b-8897-3723bfb55fe7" class="linkexternal">Long-Term Study on Landscape Irrigation Using<br>
Household Graywater – Experimental Study</a></li>
</ul>
<h4>Related topics</h4>
<ul>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZG-Septicsystemfailure.lbi" --><a href="../wastewater/septic/failure.htm">Septic system failure</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZG-WatsonWicks.lbi" --><a href="../compostingtoilets/watsonwick.htm">Watson Wicks</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZG-SewersAndwaterQuality.lbi" --><a href="../wastewater/sewer/beach.htm">Sewers & water quality</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZH-Compostingtoilets.lbi" --><a href="../compostingtoilets/book/index.htm">Composting toilets</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZG-GreenSeptic.lbi" --><a href="../design/consult/specialties.htm#gs">Green septic system</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZS-PlumbMasonDictDownload.lbi" --><a href="../communication/languages/plumbmasonrydict.htm">Pictorial construction Spanish dictionary</a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
<li class="linkbar"><!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/ZE-WildWaterWisdom.lbi" --><a href="../water/wild.htm">Wild water wisdom<i>-article</i></a><!-- #EndLibraryItem --></li>
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Grey Water Information Central
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**[Greywater central](index.htm)**
| [Greywater how-to books & video](../catalog/index.htm#how) | [Common greywater mistakes](misinfo/index.htm) | [Greywater policy center](law/index.htm) | [Grey water Q&A](../faq/index.htm#greywater)*You are here:* [**Home**](../index.htm)
> [Greywater central](index.htm)
# Grey Water Central
### The web's information central on all aspects of grey water systems from the leading innovators and producers of greywater information
Why to use grey water, how to choose, build and use grey water reuse systems, regulations, studies, science and examples. Grey water irrigation, treatment, filtration, low tech DIY systems, high tech indoor grey water reuse...
*For homeowners, do-it-yourselfers, regulators, inspectors, elected officials, building departments, health departments, builders, and activists.*
****On this page:****
* [Why you can trust this information](#trust)
* [What is grey water?](#what)
* [Why use grey water?](#why)
* [Is grey water reuse safe?](#safe)
* [Is grey water legal?](#legal)
* [The benefits of grey water recycling](#benefits)
* [Further reading and watching](#reading)
[](laundry/index.htm)
## *Why you can trust this information*
*The quality and credibility of our information is the key to our livelihood; most of our income is from information. We have developed numerous greywater reuse innovations, perhaps more than any other single source. All have been published unpatented into the public domain. *We don't have much stake in any particular system, whereas our livlihood depends on being a trustworthy information source for all ecological design. Where **no** greywater system is appropriate, we gain credibility by saying so. Likewise if a manufactured system is more suited than a DIY system we developed. When a better way of reusing greywater is found, we just update our information—we don't have a warehouse full of obsolete systems to sell through. (Our main greywater book is currently in its 19th revision)**.* <More about [Why trust this info](../about/trust.htm)>*
**You'll find older versions of this content replicated all over the web; this is the source. We appreciate your [links](../about/linktous.htm), likes, and [direct book purchases](../catalog/index.htm#greywater); they support our public service research, development, and free content.**
*We hope this information helps you manage your resources wisely--*
*--The Oasis Team*
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## What is grey water?
Any washwater that has been used in the home, except water from toilets,
is called grey water. Dish, shower, sink, and laundry water comprise
50-80% of residential "waste" water. This may be reused for
other purposes, especially landscape irrigation.
(This is the definition common in Europe and Australia. Some jurisdictions in the US exclude kitchen sink water and diaper wash water from their definition of grey water. These are most accurately defined as "dark grey water")
Greywater
irrigated garden in state of CA study
## Why use grey water?
It's a waste to irrigate with great quantities of drinking water when
plants thrive on used water containing small bits of compost. Unlike
a lot of ecological stopgap measures, grey water reuse is a part of
the fundamental solution to many ecological problems and will probably
remain essentially unchanged in the distant future. The benefits of
grey water recycling include:
* Lower fresh water use
* Less strain on failing septic tank or treatment plant
* Better treatment (topsoil is many times more effective than subsoil or treatment plant)
* Less energy and chemical use
* Groundwater recharge
* Plant growth
* Reclamation of otherwise wasted nutrients
* Increased awareness of and sensitivity to natural cycles
Healthy fruit from sanitary irrigation of edible
landscape
## Why does grey water matter?
Viewed narrowly, grey water systems don’t look that important. A low flow showerhead can save water with less effort. A septic system can treat grey water almost as well.
But when you look at the whole picture—how everything connects—the keystone importance of grey water is revealed.
* Ecological systems design is about context, and integration between systems. The entirety of integrated, ecological design can be reduced to one sentence: *do what's appropriate for the context.*
* Ecological systems—rainwater harvesting, runoff management, passive solar, composting toilets, edible landscaping—all of these are more context sensitive than their counterparts in conventional practice; that's most of what makes them more ecological.
* Grey water systems are more context sensitive than any other man-made ecological system, and more connected to more other systems.
* Get the grey water just right, and you’ve got the whole package right—and that matters.
Many people and organizations instinctively recognize that grey water is the ideal test case for the transition to a new way of regulating and building that is appropriate to a post-peak resource, mature civilization.
The US Green Building Council, the City of Santa Barbara, CA, Oregon ReCode, and SLO Green Build are among those organizations which independently chose grey water standards as the technology with which to launch their programs of regulatory reform.
## Is grey water reuse safe?
Yes. There are eight million grey water systems in the US with 22 million users. In 60 years, there have been one *billion* system user-years of exposure, yet there has not been one documented case of grey water transmitted illness.
*(In contrast, 400 Americans get hit by lightning each year. [More details](law/california/index.htm), [calculations and references](law/california/index.htm#references)).*
## Is grey water legal?
In practice, grey water legality is virtually never an issue for residential retrofit systems—everyone just bootlegs them. However, grey water legality is almost always an issue for permitted new construction and remodeling, unless you're in a visionary state such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas (and soon, NV, MT, OR, and CA). *For details see our [Greywater policy center](law/index.htm) and [Builder's GW Guide*-book*](/greywater/buildersguide/index.htm).*
[](law/california/index.htm#references)
## The benefits of grey water recycling (in detail)
### *Lower fresh water use*
Grey water can replace fresh water in many instances, saving money and increasing
the effective water supply in regions where irrigation is needed. Residential
water use is almost evenly split between indoor and outdoor. All except toilet
water could be recycled outdoors, achieving the same result with significantly
less water diverted from nature.
### *Less strain on septic tank or treatment plant*
Grey water use greatly extends the useful life and capacity of septic systems.
For municipal treatment systems, decreased wastewater flow means higher treatment
effectiveness and lower costs.
### *Highly effective purification*
Grey water is purified to a spectacularly high degree in the upper, most biologically
active region of the soil. This protects the quality of natural surface and
ground waters.
### *Works on sites unsuitable for a septic tank*
For sites with slow soil percolation or other problems, a grey water system
can be a partial or complete substitute for a very costly, over-engineered system.
### *Less energy and chemical use*
Less energy and chemicals are used due to the reduced amount of both freshwater
and wastewater that needs pumping and treatment. For those providing their own
water or electricity, the advantage of a reduced burden on the infrastructure
is felt directly. Also, treating your wastewater in the soil under your own
fruit trees definitely encourages you to dump fewer toxic chemicals down the
drain.
### *Groundwater recharge*
Grey water application in excess of plant needs recharges groundwater.
### *Plant growth*
Grey water enables a landscape to flourish where water may not otherwise be
available to support much plant growth.
### *Reclamation of otherwise wasted nutrients*
Loss of nutrients through wastewater disposal in rivers or oceans is a subtle,
but highly significant form of erosion. Reclaiming nutrients in grey water helps
to maintain the fertility of the land.
### *Increased awareness of and sensitivity to natural cycles*
Grey water use yields the satisfaction of taking responsibility for the wise
husbandry of an important resource.
## Full how-to details from our store
* [Greywater how-to books & video](../catalog/index.htm#how) Set [](http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=NCO-BG-PED-L2L)âAll our greywater books and video together at a discount
* [Oasis greywater-*book*](createanoasis/index.htm) [](http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=nco9780964343337)âHow to choose, build and use 17 types of greywater systems
* [Laundry 2 landscape*-video*](laundry/video/index.htm) [](http://secure.oasisdesign.net/cgi-bin/UCEditor?merchantId=OASIS&ADD=L2L-VIDEO)âHow to build our simplest, most economical system from start to finish
* [Builder's GW Guide*-book*](/greywater/buildersguide/index.htm) [](http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=OASIS&ADD=bg0964343320)âPermitted greywater systems in new construction and remodeling, info for regulators and policymaker
* Excerpt from our instructional [Laundry 2 landscape*-video*](laundry/video/index.htm):
#### Further reading and watchingâon this site
* [Common greywater mistakes](misinfo/index.htm)and preferred practices
* [Grey water Q&A](../faq/index.htm#greywater)
* [Grey water links](references.htm)
* [Consulting](../design/consult/index.htm)
* [Indoor greywater reuse](indoors/index.htm)
* [Builder's action summary](buildersguide/actionssummary.htm)
* [Gray water workshop](workshop/index.htm)
* [Aguas grises*-Español*](aguasgrises.htm)
* [Greywater in cold climates](../faq/gwCold.htm)
* [Greywater pressroom](press/index.htm)
#### System examples
* **[Laundry to landscape](laundry/index.htm)**
* [System selection chart*-pdf*](createanoasis/systemchart.pdf)
* [Branched
drain system explanation](../greywater/buildersguide/index.htm#brancheddrain)
* [Branched drain system example](castudy.pdf) (PDF)
* [Branched
drain in indigenous community](../design/examples/maruata/maruata2.htm#greywater)
* [Manual
grey water systems of Huehuetortuga](../design/examples/huehue.htm#greywater)
* [GW site assessment checklist*-pdf*](createanoasis/GWSiteAssessmentForm.pdf)
#### Grey water regulation
* **[Greywater policy center](law/index.htm)**
* [CA gray water policy center](law/california/index.htm)
* [Greywater press center](press/index.htm)
* [Model greywater rules *(pdf)*](law/improve/ModelGreywaterOrdinance.pdf)
* [UPC&CPC improvements](law/improve/cpcupc.htm)
* [IPC improvements](law/improve/ipc.htm)
* [Stub outs](stubout.htm)
#### Grey water research and science
* [Fecal coliform counts](../water/quality/coliform.htm)
* [Treatment vs application depth*-pdf*](../images/img_hires/PollutionPlumesByDepth.jpg)
* [Monitoring Graywater Use: Three Case Studies in California *(pdf)*](http://www.water.ca.gov/wateruseefficiency/docs/monitoringGW_Use.pdf)
* [Long-Term Study on Landscape Irrigation Using
Household Graywater – Experimental Study](http://www.werf.org/WERFDownload.aspx?ContentKey=b588da38-c38d-425e-9699-4a2285f43d77&ContentItemKey=765b2d78-922d-4c7b-8897-3723bfb55fe7)
#### Related topics
* [Septic system failure](../wastewater/septic/failure.htm)
* [Watson Wicks](../compostingtoilets/watsonwick.htm)
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| https://oasisdesign.net/greywater/ |
<!DOCTYPE HTML>
<html lang=en>
<head>
<title>Kent Fiala</title>
<meta charset="utf-8">
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/klf.css">
<script src="/txt/scripts.js"></script>
<script src="txt/scripts.js"></script>
</head>
<body style="max-width:700px">
<h1>Kent Fiala's website</h1>
<h2 style="text-align:center">(My other websites are <a href="https://www.carolinabirdclub.org" target="_blank">Carolina Bird Club</a>
and <a href="http://avisys.info/" target="_blank">AviSys</a>.)</h2>
<div style="float:left">
<p><strong>Bird photos</strong></p>
<p><a href="trips/">Narratives of birding trips</a></p>
<p>Most recent trip: <a href="trips/FL/">Florida</a></p>
</div>
<div style="float:right">
<p><strong><a href="eBird">eBird apps</a></strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://avisys.info/ebirdtoavisys/">Import eBird checklists into AviSys</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.carolinabirdclub.org/sightings/nearby.html">Nearby notable eBird sightings</a></li>
<li><a href="eBird/compiler/">Compile multiple eBird checklists into one spreadsheet</a></li>
<li><a href="eBird/extension/">Browser extensions</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<br style="clear:both">
<div style="width: 30em;margin-left: auto;margin-right: auto;border: thin solid green">
<p style="text-align: center"><strong>eBird video tutorials</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="pubs/eBird202.html">eBird 202</a></li>
<li><a href="https://youtu.be/kTgRa6XMsRo">Inside eBird</a></li>
<!-- <li><a href="https://youtu.be/eDueMlOB92E">How to merge an eBird personal location with a hotspot</a></li>-->
<li><a href="https://youtu.be/ZDjTb8UW3ro">How to change the checklist location in eBird</a></li>
<li><a href="https://youtu.be/GYqogvHYn28">How to edit bird recordings in Audacity</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div style="width:35em; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<p style="text-align: center">
All photos on this site copyright by
<a href="/txt/email.html" onblur='this.href="/txt/email.html"' onmouseout='this.href="/txt/email.html"' onfocus='this.href=gema("gmail","Kent Fiala <Kent.Fiala","com>","")' onmouseover='this.href=gema("gmail","Kent Fiala <Kent.Fiala","com>","")'>Kent Fiala</a> unless otherwise indicated.
<br>
<span style="font-size:small">In general permission for re-use will be given,
but ask first, OK?</span>
</p>
</div>
<div style="width:25em;margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="pubs/">Selected publications of Kent Fiala</a></p>
</div>
<div style="width:25em;margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="birdstart/">How I Got Into Birding</a></p>
</div>
<div style="width:18em; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="swainson/">The perfection of ornithology</a></p>
</div>
<div style="width:18em; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="misc/Larus_apus.html">Larus apus</a></p>
</div>
<div style="width:18em; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto">
<ul style="list-style: none;padding: 0">
<li style="text-align: center;"><a href="/members/login.html">Login</a></li></ul>
</div>
</body>
</html>
|
Kent Fiala
# Kent Fiala's website
## (My other websites are [Carolina Bird Club](https://www.carolinabirdclub.org)
and [AviSys](http://avisys.info/).)
**Bird photos**
[Narratives of birding trips](trips/)
Most recent trip: [Florida](trips/FL/)
**[eBird apps](eBird)**
* [Import eBird checklists into AviSys](http://avisys.info/ebirdtoavisys/)
* [Nearby notable eBird sightings](https://www.carolinabirdclub.org/sightings/nearby.html)
* [Compile multiple eBird checklists into one spreadsheet](eBird/compiler/)
* [Browser extensions](eBird/extension/)
**eBird video tutorials**
* [eBird 202](pubs/eBird202.html)
* [Inside eBird](https://youtu.be/kTgRa6XMsRo)
* [How to change the checklist location in eBird](https://youtu.be/ZDjTb8UW3ro)
* [How to edit bird recordings in Audacity](https://youtu.be/GYqogvHYn28)
All photos on this site copyright by
[Kent Fiala](/txt/email.html) unless otherwise indicated.
In general permission for re-use will be given,
but ask first, OK?
[Selected publications of Kent Fiala](pubs/)
[How I Got Into Birding](birdstart/)
[The perfection of ornithology](swainson/)
[Larus apus](misc/Larus_apus.html)
* [Login](/members/login.html)
| https://www.faintlake.com/ |
<html>
<head>
<title>ELEC 301 Project -- Fall '99</title>
</head>
<body background="gray.gif">
<font face="arial" size=+1>
<center>
<table align=center>
<tr align=center>
<td>
<image src="20left.gif" align=left>
</td><td>
<h2>Money Recognition
</h2>
<h4>ELEC 301 Project -- Fall '99</h4>
<h3>
Stanton Champion<br>
Doug Haunsperger<br>
Brian Becker</h3>
</td><td>
<image src="20right.gif" align=right>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</center>
<br clear=all>
Money. Money makes the world go 'round. Money is the grease that keeps
the machine known as the global economy humming smoothly. Of course, in
today's world, most of the global economy is run by computers. It is
therefore vital that these computers know how to recognize money.
<p>
Our project involves devoloping an image recognition program that will
distinguish between various denominations of U.S. currency (both new and old
versions). The program can also detect crude attempts at counterfeiting.
<p>
<hr>
<p>
<center><a href="why.html">Why?</a> | <a href="methods.html">Methods</a> | <a
href="samples.html">Money Samples</a> | <a href="problems.html">Problems and
Solutions</a> | <a href="corner.html">Corner Detection</a>
<br>
<a href="data.html">Data</a> | <a href="analysis.html">Data Analysis</a> |
<a href="faq.html">FAQ</a> | <a href="conclusions.html">Conclusions</a> | <a
href="group.html">Our Group</a> | <a
href="references.html">References</a></center>
</font>
</body>
</html>
|
ELEC 301 Project -- Fall '99
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | Money Recognition
ELEC 301 Project -- Fall '99
Stanton Champion
Doug Haunsperger
Brian Becker | |
Money. Money makes the world go 'round. Money is the grease that keeps
the machine known as the global economy humming smoothly. Of course, in
today's world, most of the global economy is run by computers. It is
therefore vital that these computers know how to recognize money.
Our project involves devoloping an image recognition program that will
distinguish between various denominations of U.S. currency (both new and old
versions). The program can also detect crude attempts at counterfeiting.
---
[Why?](why.html) | [Methods](methods.html) | [Money Samples](samples.html) | [Problems and
Solutions](problems.html) | [Corner Detection](corner.html)
[Data](data.html) | [Data Analysis](analysis.html) |
[FAQ](faq.html) | [Conclusions](conclusions.html) | [Our Group](group.html) | [References](references.html)
| https://www.clear.rice.edu/elec301/Projects99/money/ |
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<div id="navigation">
<h2>Navigation</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="/" tabindex="1" title="Main Page">Main Page</a></li>
<li><a href="/ent.php" tabindex="2" title="Download MIDI files">Download MIDI files</a></li>
<li><a href="/vic.php" tabindex="3" title="The most famous holographic entertainer of the universe">Who is Vic Fontaine?</a></li>
<li><a href="/cdrev.php" tabindex="4" title="Soundtrack Reviews">Soundtrack Reviews</a></li>
<li><a href="/aboutg.php" tabindex="5" title="The Final Frontier">The Final Frontier</a></li>
<li><a href="/links.php" tabindex="7" title="Links and Awards">Links and awards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.heidoc.net/myPHP_Guestbook/" tabindex="8" title="Read and Sign the Guest Book">Guest Book</a></li>
<li><a href="/contact.php" tabindex="9" title="Contact and Terms">Contact</a></li>
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<p id="logo">
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</p>
<hr />
<p class="submenu">Select the show to download MIDI files:</p>
<ul class="submenu">
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_ent.jpg');"><a href="ent.php" tabindex="11" title="Star Trek: Enterprise"><span>Star Trek: Enterprise</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_tos.gif');"><a href="tos.php" tabindex="12" title="Star Trek: The Original Series, Movies I to VI"><span>Star Trek: The Original Series, Movies I to VI</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_tng.jpg');"><a href="tng.php" tabindex="13" title="Star Trek: The Next Generation, Movies VII to X"><span>Star Trek: The Next Generation, Movies VII to X</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_ds9.gif');"><a href="ds9.php" tabindex="14" title="Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"><span>Star Trek: Deep Space Nine</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_voy.gif');"><a href="voy.php" tabindex="15" title="Star Trek: Voyager"><span>Star Trek: Voyager</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_2009.jpg');"><a href="st2009.php" tabindex="16" title="Star Trek Movie (2009)"><span>Star Trek Movie (2009)</span></a></li>
<li style="background-image: url('images/library_other.jpg');"><a href="other.php" tabindex="17" title="Some other MIDI files"><span>Some other MIDI files</span></a></li>
</ul>
<hr /><div id="statistics">
<p>
Latest Update: 2016-08-08<br />
Latest MIDI addition: 2011-06-10
</p>
</div>
<h2><q>Star Trek Into Darkness</q> Free Soundtrack Preview</h2>
<p class="amazon"><div class="amazon">
<script type='text/javascript'>
// <![CDATA[
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amzn_wdgt.tag='thestartrekmidip';
amzn_wdgt.widgetType='ASINList';
amzn_wdgt.ASIN='B00CRR5YA0';
amzn_wdgt.title='Star Trek Into Darkness';
amzn_wdgt.width='234';
amzn_wdgt.height='60';
amzn_wdgt.shuffleTracks='True';
amzn_wdgt.marketPlace='US';
// ]]>
</script>
<script type='text/javascript' src='http://wms-na.amazon-adsystem.com/20070822/US/js/swfobject_1_5.js'></script>
</div></p>
<h2>Vic Fontaine Video Clip</h2>
<p class="bannertext">
<video width="320" height="240" lang="en-US" title="Bada-bing Bada-bang" controls="controls" poster="/images/poster.gif" preload="none">
<source src="/mov/DS956601.mp4v" type='video/mp4; codecs="avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2"' />
<source src="/mov/DS956601.ogv" type='video/ogg; codecs="theora, vorbis"' />
</video>
</p>
<h2>Partner Pages</h2>
<table class="bannertable">
<colgroup>
<col class="hits" />
<col class="banner" />
</colgroup>
<thead>
<tr>
<th scope="col">Hits</th>
<th scope="col">Banner</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr><td>6468</td><td class="bannerfoot"><a href="countl.php?group=1&nbr=1" target="_blank" title="HeiDoc.net - the webmaster's other project"><img src="http://www.heidoc.net/joomla/images/heidoc/heidoc468.jpg" style="width: 468px; height: 60px;" alt="HeiDoc.net - the webmaster's other project" onerror="this.style.display='none'" /></a><br />http://www.heidoc.net/</td></tr><tr><td>3135</td><td class="bannerfoot"><a href="countl.php?group=1&nbr=2" target="_blank" title="Star Trek-Galaxie"><img src="http://www.startrek-galaxie.de/bannerg.gif" style="width: 468px; height: 60px;" alt="Star Trek-Galaxie" onerror="this.style.display='none'" /></a><br />http://www.startrek-galaxie.de/</td></tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<h2>Mobile Application</h2>
<p id="wap">
<img src="/images/mobile.jpg" alt="wap.vic-fontaine.com" style="width: 51px; height: 100px;" />
There's also a mobile WAP version of this site available, which has been optimized for older cellphone browsers, and uses up
only a minimum of bandwidth. You can easily transfer any MIDI files from the WAP site to your phone to use as ringtones.<br />
Requirements: WAP 2.0<br />
Address: <a href="http://wap.vic-fontaine.com/" title="Vic Fontaine Mobile Application">wap.vic-fontaine.com</a>
</p>
<h2>Advertising</h2>
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<script type="text/javascript">
// <![CDATA[
amazon_ad_tag = "thestartrekmidip";
amazon_ad_width = "728";
amazon_ad_height = "90";
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// ]]>
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<p class="disclaimer">© Copyright 1996-2017 by Jan Krohn</p>
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<img src="/images/linkarena.gif" alt="LinkARENA" /> LinkARENA</a></li>
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</html> |
The Star Trek MIDI page
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## Navigation
* [Main Page](/ "Main Page")
* [Download MIDI files](/ent.php "Download MIDI files")
* [Who is Vic Fontaine?](/vic.php "The most famous holographic entertainer of the universe")
* [Soundtrack Reviews](/cdrev.php "Soundtrack Reviews")
* [The Final Frontier](/aboutg.php "The Final Frontier")
* [Links and awards](/links.php "Links and Awards")
* [Guest Book](https://www.heidoc.net/myPHP_Guestbook/ "Read and Sign the Guest Book")
* [Contact](/contact.php "Contact and Terms")
* [Sprache: Deutsch ](/d_index.php "Sprache wechseln")
---
Select the show to download MIDI files:
* [Star Trek: Enterprise](ent.php "Star Trek: Enterprise")
* [Star Trek: The Original Series, Movies I to VI](tos.php "Star Trek: The Original Series, Movies I to VI")
* [Star Trek: The Next Generation, Movies VII to X](tng.php "Star Trek: The Next Generation, Movies VII to X")
* [Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](ds9.php "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine")
* [Star Trek: Voyager](voy.php "Star Trek: Voyager")
* [Star Trek Movie (2009)](st2009.php "Star Trek Movie (2009)")
* [Some other MIDI files](other.php "Some other MIDI files")
---
Latest Update: 2016-08-08
Latest MIDI addition: 2011-06-10
## Star Trek Into Darkness Free Soundtrack Preview
// <![CDATA[
var amzn\_wdgt={widget:'MP3Clips'};
amzn\_wdgt.tag='thestartrekmidip';
amzn\_wdgt.widgetType='ASINList';
amzn\_wdgt.ASIN='B00CRR5YA0';
amzn\_wdgt.title='Star Trek Into Darkness';
amzn\_wdgt.width='234';
amzn\_wdgt.height='60';
amzn\_wdgt.shuffleTracks='True';
amzn\_wdgt.marketPlace='US';
// ]]>
## Vic Fontaine Video Clip
## Partner Pages
| Hits | Banner |
| --- | --- |
| 6468 | [HeiDoc.net - the webmaster's other project](countl.php?group=1&nbr=1 "HeiDoc.net - the webmaster's other project")http://www.heidoc.net/ |
| 3135 | [Star Trek-Galaxie](countl.php?group=1&nbr=2 "Star Trek-Galaxie")http://www.startrek-galaxie.de/ |
## Mobile Application
There's also a mobile WAP version of this site available, which has been optimized for older cellphone browsers, and uses up
only a minimum of bandwidth. You can easily transfer any MIDI files from the WAP site to your phone to use as ringtones.
Requirements: WAP 2.0
Address: [wap.vic-fontaine.com](http://wap.vic-fontaine.com/ "Vic Fontaine Mobile Application")
## Advertising
// <![CDATA[
amazon\_ad\_tag = "thestartrekmidip";
amazon\_ad\_width = "728";
amazon\_ad\_height = "90";
amazon\_ad\_link\_target = "new";
amazon\_ad\_border = "hide";
// ]]>
© Copyright 1996-2017 by Jan Krohn
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| https://www.vic-fontaine.com/ |
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<html>
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<center>
<h1>Meteor M2 off-axis imagery</h1>
<h4>All images were received on HRPT due to the nature of the problem (LRPT was turned off) by my emergency 80cm antenna. Hence they are not great, and I didn't have much time to receive anyways :)</h4>
<p>All images were processed with <a href="https://zeke800.github.io/ft_comp.txt">FT_Comp_V2</a>.</p>
<br>
<br>
<h5>May 5</h5>
<p>Late lock, lost track overhead</p>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/P960fh2/1.png">
<br>
<h5>May 6</h5>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/S5tRpym/2.png">
<h5>Also May 6</h5>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/ZJzR4sz/3.png">
<h5>May 7</h5>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/W2g5d97/4.png">
<h5>Totally didn't break my antenna</h5>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/ZLXNLnJ/5.png">
<h5>First broken orbit of Meteor M2 (very low on horizon, deep space)</h5>
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/0Gz149v/6.png">
</center>
<script>
includeHTML();
</script>
</body>
</html>
|
function includeHTML() {
var z, i, elmnt, file, xhttp;
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# Meteor M2 off-axis imagery
#### All images were received on HRPT due to the nature of the problem (LRPT was turned off) by my emergency 80cm antenna. Hence they are not great, and I didn't have much time to receive anyways :)
All images were processed with [FT\_Comp\_V2](https://zeke800.github.io/ft_comp.txt).
##### May 5
Late lock, lost track overhead
##### May 6
##### Also May 6
##### May 7
##### Totally didn't break my antenna
##### First broken orbit of Meteor M2 (very low on horizon, deep space)
includeHTML();
| https://zeke800.github.io/SAT/meteor_m2.html |
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html><head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="content-type"><title>Current USPS Postage Rate Charts - simple tables</title>
<meta content="Jerry Nelson" name="author">
<meta content="Simple postage charts -- current rates" name="description"></head><body>
<a href="#bottom" name="top"><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">Bottom
& links</span></small></a><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">Autumn color <a href="..//McLnStorms-Walks/SouthridgeMcMansions2018AutumnWalk/SouthridgeMcMansions.html">photos - a walk
thru my neighborhood</a></span></small> <big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></big><big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></big><br>
<div style="text-align: center;">
<div style="text-align: left;"><big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></big></div>
<big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><big><big style="font-weight: bold;"><big>POSTAGE
RATES</big></big></big> </span></big></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></small>
<div style="text-align: right;">
<div style="text-align: center;"><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">An unofficial
site by Jerry Nelson.</span></small><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">First Class letter 58 cents</span> 3Oct2021<br>
</span></small>
<h2><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial Black;">UPDATED ONLY FOR LETTERS AND "FLATS" <br>
</span></h2>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">getting revised Oct2021 <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small></div>
</div>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">
---=---</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><br>
</div>
<span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><small><st1:date month="12" day="18" year="2007"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></st1:date><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">Inspired
by the friendliest home town <a href="http://www.lafayettetn.com/post_office.htm">post
office in the USA, Lafayette, TN</a><big>
</big></span></small>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>
(How this page started, <a href="#HowThisStarted">below</a>) <br>
((PDF of rate tables only, finally for 2019 -- <a href="BareBonesPostageTables.pdf">BareBonesPostageTables.pdf</a> ))<br></small></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span><h2><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial Black; font-weight: normal;"></span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial Black;">FOREVER
STAMPS </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;">can
be used for anything, but what are the<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>y
currently worth?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;"></span></h2>
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;">58</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ - classic forever stamp; good investment, always goes up, went up 3¢ on 3Oct2021. <span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">20</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ - "A</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">dditional
Ounce" <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(51, 0, 51);">went down from 21 to 15¢ </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(51, 0, 51);"> 27Jan2019, and up to 20¢ on 3Oct2021</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
78</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ - "Two Ounce"
(the wedding invitation stamp, heart symbol)<br>88</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ - the
"butterfly" stamps for bad envelopes (square, stiff, metal clasp).<br>
Although the stamp
says "Non-Machinable Surcharge",<br>
it is <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">not the
30</span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(51, 0, 51);">¢ </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">surcharge, it is the entire cost.</span></span> <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">40</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ - postcard - had been 35</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 51);">¢</span></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">since at least 2017<br>
$1.30 foreign letter - up 5</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ in </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">2020, up 10¢ 3Oct2021</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></big></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>Note:
mail that canât get through a sorting machine
costs more.</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;">
<br>
A flat,
flexible regular or business-sized envelope is cheaper than a flat,
flexible
manila
envelope that needs bigger sorting machines and <i style="">they</i>
are cheaper than thick, inflexible envelopes of the same size
and weight that are unmachinable and have to go as small parcels.
<span style=""></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<h2><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="FirstClass"></a></span></b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial Black; font-weight: normal;"></span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial Black;">Letters 1st Class 58</span><span style="font-family: Arial Black;"><span style="font-size: 16pt;">¢+20¢</span></span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><span style="font-family: Arial Black;">/oz (3Oct2021)</span></span><b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><br>
</span></b></b></h2>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Not over: <br>
1
oz <span style="">
</span> $0.58
+20¢/oz. Bad
envelope penalty is 30¢ </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">2 ounces </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> $0.78</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 ounces </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">$0.98</span><br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">3.5
oz<span style=""> </span><span style=""></span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">$1.18
Heavier?
Go to FLATS (next).<br> </span>
<br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="History-1stClassLtrs.html">price history</a></span></small><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><small style="font-weight: bold;"><a href="History-DatesOfChange.html">dates when rates changed</a>
(helps you search for historic data)<br>
USPS tables, not the rate calculator: <a href="http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/notice123.pdf">DMM,
the Domestic Mail Manual</a>. </small><small>Go to "Quick Refs"
at end of this long pdf doc; stay in "Retail" chapters, we don't
qualify for cheap corporate rates.</small></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"><small style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</small></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<p style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Rigid
object inside? Metal
clasp? Button & closure string?<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><img style="width: 200px; height: 448px;" alt="Business envelope styles like "commercial" or "wallet flap"" title="The standard size is #10; #!4 is max for a letter, not a flat." src="BusinessEnvelopeOutlines.jpg" align="right"></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><br>
Add non-machinable surcharge ("bad envelope penalty"). <br>
Square?<span style=""> </span>Goes though
their machines but they canât
tell which way?<span style=""> </span>Add
$0.30<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><br>
Almost square (less than 30%
height-width difference)? Add $0.30<br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Too
skinny?</span></span>
(<span class="GramE">long</span>
length more than 2.5x short)?<span style=""> </span>Add
$0.30<br>
Really cute little one for that note, under 3 ½<span class="GramE">â</span>
or 4¼â?<br>
Hide it! You're
illegal. Go home and start over. <br>
Length over 11 ½<span class="GramE">â?</span> <span style="font-family: Arial;">Height
over 6 1/8â? </span>Go to
âFlatsâ (next) <br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
Max size in the stnd envelope series is #14
(5"x11.5"). Size 10 is normal (4.125" x 9.5").<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><br>
If you want to send someone a
stamped,
self-addressed envelope <span style="font-family: Arial;">("SSAE")
</span><br>
for them to send you back something,
it's nice to get a few Size 11
envelopes <br>
to put the #10 into,<br>
or to send a bounced envelope back when you get your friend's new address. <br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Thicker
than ¼â?</span></span><span style="">
</span>Go to âFlatsâ.<br>You're a corporation using metered mail?
Congratulations!
Take off 1¢. Wait! Take off 3¢, we love corporations.
Oct2021: take 5¢ off, we know how poor CEOs like Bezos are. <br> Pitney Bowes Inc. says <br>
"Save 5¢ on every First
Class letter you send vs. stamps by using your Pitney Bowes<br>
Meter or
SendPro Online to print postage."<br>
Corporations are happy. <br>
Not a corporation, tired?
Sorry. Too bad.
Congress gave away its power of oversight and let the Postal
Service change rates <b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b>by
itself, every 5 minutes, it seems. <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="Flats"></a>âFlats<span class="GramE">â<span style=""> </span>(</span>Large 1st
Class
Envelopes) <br>
no change Jan2021
<br>
</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">1
oz
$1.16 Up 16</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> on 3Oct2021 <span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">
</span> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>2
ounces
$1.36 Incrementing 20 cents
each additional ounce since 2020</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 ounces $1.56
(<span class="GramE">3oz? Fold</span>
it & go in a business envelope for 98 cents)<br>
4 ounces $1.76<br>
5 ounces $1.96<br>
6 ounces $2.16<br>
7 ounces $<span class="GramE">2.36
</span><br>
8 ounces $2.56<br>
9 ounces $2.76<br>
10 ounces $2.96<br>
11 ounces $3.16<br>
12 ounces $3.36<br>
13 ounces $3.56 <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">FLATS:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Over
13
oz?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="">
</span>Consider Priority Mail
flat-rate envelope.<br>
Your envelope is inflexible,
lumpy, <span class="GramE">not</span> rectangular? <span style="">G</span>o
to
âPackagesâ.<span style=""> </span></span><br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">(No
rigid, corrugated cardboard in flats for preventing creased photos,
sorry.)<br>
If you want to send the photo anyway, <br>
pad the envelope with
stiff paper to protect it, & do<a href="Size+Thickness--Ltr-Flat-Pkg.html#ThicknessTest"> the flex test:</a>
<br>
hang half of the short side over the
edge of the table and check that it flexes 1" and back if you press
down
with your finger.<br>
If the short side is 10 inches
long or more, you'd better be able to bend 2". <br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
Length over 15<span class="GramE">â<span style=""></span>?</span>
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Height
over 12â? </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Go to
âPackagesâ.</span><br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Thicker than <big>3/4"</big>? Go to
âPackages"<br>
Under 3/4" but lumpy? Klutz! Go to "Packages", pay more.</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <br>
Still confused? Make sure your letters are white, your flats are
manila envelopes, and <a href="Size+Thickness--Ltr-Flat-Pkg.html#Stories"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">share user stories</span></a> like
these :-( <br>
Exception: when mailing to your friend in prison, white envelopes are
preferred because somehow you can hide particles of dope in
manila. <br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"><small><a href="History-Flats.html">Older price history. </a><br>
</small></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
-<small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">- - - - - - NOT UPDATED BELOW THIS POINT - - - - - - </span></span></big></small><small><br>
<a name="MenuBox"></a>
</small>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes"></a>Small Packages / Parcels /
Lumpy envelopes 1st class <br>
27Jan2019 NOW YOU HAVE TO USE ZONES :-(<o:p></o:p></span></b>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">These are padded
envelopes over 3/4" thick, rigid
photo mailers, medical samples, small boxes under 1 cubic foot.
If it's not cubic but very rectangular, then girth + length have to be
under 108". <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">To get the zone</span>, get your two zip codes, go here <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart">https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart </a>,
and either select "GET ZONE FOR my ZIP CODE PAIR", or print a chart
that shows how all the zones look from where you live (you also <a href="https://www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/#ParcelPost">need a chart like that below for parcel post</a>). <br>
Crossing the country coast to coast is Zone 8. From the
MidAtlantic to Indiana is Zone 4; to Indiana from the West Coast is
Zone 7.<br>
Wichita, KS is zone 6 or 7 from either coast -- 6 in the middle (San Francisco), 7 up in the corners. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width: 90%; height: 90%;" title="Making a popular service too comlicated harms revenues." src="Chart-1stClassSmallPkgs-2019.jpg" alt="Chart-1stClassSmallPkgs2019.jpg"><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
14,15, and 16 ounces were announced as acceptable on
7Jan2016, <br>
but this remains a COMMERCIAL First-Class Package
Service only, not a retail service for normal people<span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img style="width: 234px; height: 208px;" alt="Parcels symbol used on USPS Webpages." title="Enter the calculation site here and look for "first Class Mail options." src="USPS-PackagesSymbol.jpg" align="right" hspace="5" vspace="5"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">THE CARTON
SYMBOL: To get rates even if you can't purchase the
postage on-line, enter the USPS site, click on the cartons </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">symbol,
and look
for "First Class & <span style="font-weight: bold;">Other Options</span>"
at the bottom, or perhaps a line labeled "Other Services". This
is the "Parcel" (small pkg) rate. <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">https://postcalc.usps.com/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Write "1st
Class" and "Pkg" on the package. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
Don't buy insurance unless you have receipt or written proof of value.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
When they ask you "Is it over 12 inches?" that's the limit that throws
you out of ordinary letters, it has nothing to do with limits on
packa</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">ges or even manila envelopes ("flats")<br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<p style="font-weight: bold;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">2011: No longer available on-line
to the American public. Jan2018: nothing is available online
except Priority. <br>
</span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Pitney-Bowes
can print it for eBay Inc, PayPal can sell it for eBay, but you and I
have to stand in line at the
Post Office. <br>
</span></span></p>
<p style="font-weight: bold;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS</span></b><big style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></big></span></big></p>
<big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>To
send small 1st Class Packages ON LINE, go to</big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big> </big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><a href="https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow">https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow</a>
and be prepared to log into your PayPal account. </big></span></big><br>
<big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big> (Thank you,
JohnD.) You will be coming in as a corporate
customer with an 8% discount (5oz level) over the rest of us peon
American citizens. Not to mention, you can do this online and we can't. Do you use <a href="https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/">https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/</a>
? I heard they didn't do 1st class pkgs at all, but small-volume
individuals could use them, and they had good prices for on-line
Priority. </big></span></big><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img style="width: 495px; height: 177px;" alt="Cartoon-TheWoofsHaveIt-CharlesBarsotti1997Aug11" title="Cartoon-TheWoofsHaveIt-CharlesBarsotti 1997Aug11 New Yorker" src="Cartoon-TheWoofsHaveIt-CharlesBarsotti1997Aug11-600.jpg" align="right"></span>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">WHAT NAME IS THIS SERVICE?</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
Full service name was "1st Class Airmail Small Pkg", </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">then "First Class Package Service,
Retail." </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
Avoid "parcel", you'll just confuse
everybody. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">"Parcel Post" is
abolished. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
We send parcels by
post, but not by Parcel Post. Doesn't exist. <br>
Parcel Post
was abolished on 27 January 2013 and became "Standard Post". <br>
Standard Post was abolished on 17 January 2016 and became "Retail
Ground". <br>
Ground shipments <span style="font-weight: bold;">1st Class</span> go
by Air, of course. <br>
<small>((Write "1st Class PKG" on it, and be thankful you didn't have
to go to the post office Name Deciding Meetings that worked all this
out.)) </small></span><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small> </small></big></span></big></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></span></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-weight: bold;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>Some
<a href="History-SmallPkgs.html">price history<br>
</a></small></span>
</div>
<a href="History-SmallPkgs.html"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></a><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><rant>
<a href="Rant--ScannedMail.html">Mail is scanned</a>, parcels might
still be private, you have a parcel, congratulations !!). </rant>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span> <br>
</span></div>
<br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">BIGGER
THAN A "SMALL PKG"?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
If <span style="font-weight: bold;">over
13 oz domestic</span>, try <a href="#PriorityMail">Priority Mail
flat rate boxes</a>
(any weight if you can fit it in). Once you're over about 15 lbs,
Retail Ground (formerly Parcel Post) will never be cheaper than a
Priority Flat Rate box.<br>
<br>
If you're not heavy enough (>15lbs) to make flat rate Priority
a no-brainer, then try "Parcel Post Select" down below (online only,
see top of the <a href="#ParcelPost">Parcel Post section</a>).</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
When Parcel Post Select is purchased online, it includes free
tracking.<br>
Length plus girth for Parcel Post <span style="font-style: italic;">Select</span>
is 84 inches max. <br>
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Length
plus girth over 108â? </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Go to the Retail Ground (Parcel
Post) <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">calculator</a>.
No even Priority will accept your package. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
Length plus girth over 130"
Go to UPS like I told you -- even the Post Office won't
take it.</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Call the brown trucks from<o:p>
UPS; <a href="http://www.ups.com/">ups.com</a>.
You <a href="https://www.ups.com/one-to-one/register?sysid=myups&lang=en&langc=US&returnto=%2Fmyups%2Ffinishlogin%3Floc%3Den_US%26amp%3Bauto%3D0%26amp%3Breturnto%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ups.com%2Fuis%2Fcreate%3Floc%3Den_US%26amp%3BWT.svl%3DPNRO_L1%26amp%3Bappid%3DUIS&loc=en_US">have
to register</a>. </o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">If over 13 oz
and <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">going
overseas</span></span>,
you want "First-Class Package International Service" good up to 4
lbs. (Other names: "1st Class International Parcel", "<a href="#1stClassIntlPkgs">1st Class
Mail International Packages</a>".) After that, try Priority Mail
International's flat rate
boxes (limited to 20 lbs to most countries; see International section
next). </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Posters rolled up? </span>Maximum
post office lengths: Global Express Guaranteed is only 46",
Express Mail Intl. is 60", domestic Priority Mail is maybe 60", and
sometimes there is a formula of length plus how tight you rolled it up,
so you don't really get the maximum length. (Take 2 inches off
the max length for every inch looser than a 3 inch diameter
roll-up.) <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></p>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small> </small>
</a>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index2013Jan9Working.html#FirstClass"><br>
</a><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><span class="Heading2CharChar"><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="InternationalAirLtrs"></a><big><span style="font-family: Arial Black;">International
Airmail Ltrs $1.15 > 1.20 Jan2020;<br>
current as of Dec 2020.<br>
</span></big></span></b>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">1
ounce any country $1.20 </span> <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Thank you, dear
P.O., for making the first ounce the same anywhere, and for
giving us Global Forever stamps in 2013 <span style="font-weight: bold;">:-) </span> <br>
<a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fstore.usps.com+Global+Forever+international&t=ffab&atb=v43-2&ia=web">Try
this search</a> to buy Global Forever stamps at <span style="font-style: italic;">store.usps.com</span> The "wrong" forever stamps can be combined to get up to the foreign ltr amount.<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">One
ounce </span>is a
business envelope with 5 sheets of typical Xerox paper, or 1 sheet and
six 4x6" photos. Leave out 1 sheet or 1 photo to be
safe. <br>
"3.5" oz means you can't weigh more, but you
pay for 4 oz. <br>
Limits, all countries: value under $400, size under 6 1/8" x
11 1/2" x 1/4" thick (same envelope limit as domestic).<br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">CANADA
1 oz
$1.20
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
2 oz
$1.20 </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 oz
$1.69 +49</span><small><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"></span></small><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 1/2
$2.18 +49</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">MEXICO
1
oz
$1.20 </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
2
oz
$1.81
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">We have to bribe them to take the letters, so they cost more.
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3
oz
$2.40
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> (+59-61</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ per added oz) </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 1/2
$3.00 </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
<br>
Rest of World 1 oz
$1.20
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
2
<br>
3
Check your <span style="font-weight: bold;">country group</span>
below.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
31/2 <br>
</span><big><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></big><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big>COUNTRY
GROUPS</big><br>
Group 1 Countries </span>is CANADA (see above).<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
Group 2 Countries </span>is MEXICO (see above). <span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
<br>
Cheaper Countries,
Groups 6-9</span>. Central and South America,
Middle East, Africa, <br>
central </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Asia,
New Zealand, South Africa, Philippines, Taiwan</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
1 oz
$1.20
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
2 oz
$2.08 </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 oz $2.95 (</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">+87 or 88</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢/next oz)</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 1/2
$3.82<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Costly Countries, Groups 3-5.</span>
European Union (France, Italy, <br>
places
with chateaus & good food) , <br>
Russia, eastern Europe, Turkey; China, Hong
Kong, <br>
South
Korea, Japan,
& Australia <br>
(<a href="http://www.nelsonic.org/fototrip/Oz08/index.html#MoreBirds">kangaroos</a>,
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap">spy satellite stations</a>).
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
1
oz $1.20
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
2 oz
$2.24 </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <br>
3 oz $3.28 (+$1.04/next oz)</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
3 1/2
$4.32<br>
</span><small style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
10April2016 </small><small style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">5</small><small style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">¢ increase revoked,
first ounce back to $1.15. Steady 2017, 2018, 2019.<br>
Price increases across the board Jan2020<br>
</small>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="History-1stClassLtrsInternational.html"><small>some price
history <br>
</small></a><small>check
other countries: <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">https://postcalc.usps.com/</span></a></small></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><a name="IntlAirLtrs-CountryGrps"></a></span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">BIGGER
THAN A LETTER? MORE THAN 3.5 OZ? =</span></span></st1:place></st1:country-region><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><big><span style="font-family: Arial Black;"><br>
</span></big></span></b>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><big><span style="font-family: Arial Black;"><a name="IntlFlats"></a>Int'l Flats
- "1st Class Mail International" unchanged 2018, 2019, 2020</span></big></span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Envelopes up
to 15" x 12", weights up to 4 lb, not lumpy, not totally inflexible.<br>
Weight increments are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 oz then 12 oz, 16 oz, +4oz.
So, if you cross 8 oz (or 12), print some photos on your
camera -- 5 sheets/ounce of good paper, 6
sheets/ounce of ordinary copy paper (minus a sheet for safety). <br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">
TABLE BELOW<br>
Canada, roughly $6
first lb, half as much gets you a quarter pound</span><br style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;"> Mexico roughly
$10 first lb, ditto</span><br style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;"> ROW roughly
$12 / first lb,
ditto</span><br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">ONLINE you can get prices but not buy
the postage:
select the large plain
envelope icon at <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">https://postcalc.usps.com/</a>
. On next page, click to unhide
"First-Class Int'l Options". Y <br>
</span>
<p style="font-family: Arial;" class="MsoNormal">FLEXIBLE:<span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span>International Flat envelope
cannot be rigid. And
thickness? We are going up to 4 pounds here, folks, so the
infamous thickness limits do not apply. Instead, the warning
is,<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">don't
have more than 1/4" VARIATIONS in thickness. </span> <br>
If you
fail the thickness test, you are a
<a href="#1stClassIntlPkgs">First Class International Package</a> box
-- prices are 40, 50% higher, even double for the low weights. <br>
</p>
<p style="font-family: Arial;" class="MsoNormal">OVER ABOUT 2 1/2
POUNDS a Priority Flat Rate
Envelope will be
cheaper. Get the legal
size
9-1/2" x 15" -- same price as stnd size for international.<br>
</p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">USE BIG
ENVELOPES FOR "FLATS": Don't try
to mail a small envelope that's over 3.5 oz. even if you pay for
it -- it confuses some postal clerks. The small envelope will
look like a letter, and
"LETTER" service up
to 64 oz was dropped on 12May2008, so now there's only big
"FLATS". Fill the airplanes with big envelopes, that's what they
want. </span><br>
</span></p>
<img style="width: 476px; height: 745px;" alt="INTERNATIONAL FLATS - 10 April 2016" title="10April2016 INT'L FLATS" src="Chart-IntlFlats-2016Apr10.jpg"><img style="width: 350px; height: 745px;" alt="DiplomaticPassport-1963-400" title="American Diplomatic Passport cover, 1963" src="DiplomaticPassport-1963-400.jpg"> <span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
MAIL SOMETHING TO CHINA?
If it's flat and under 4 oz, the postage alone needs to be $5.10 to
cover the cost (Zone 3 above). Yet at any moment on eBay, the
number of items whose <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">total cost </span></span>is
$5 or less is between two and three million. If $5.10 is the true
cost to the post office for us to mail a little envelope to China, then
there's no way eBay's China traffic can cover
what it costs our postal system to run their business and deliver their
packages. </span></small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><small>I
put
<a href="ebay.html">the eBay story</a> on a separate page. eBay's
total China traffic is about <a href="ebay.html#100MillionTable">100
million items a year</a>. The United States subsidizes the flood
of Chinese stuff into the US. Our government pays for eBay's
profits. eBay ran a conference between our post office and
China's, gave away our first class service to them, and locked us into
it with a treaty. Ebay collects the sellers' fees, we don't
collect the postage. </small></span><br>
<br>
<a href="History-Int%27lFlats.html"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Some
prior history</span></a><br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:country-region style="font-weight: bold;"><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;">HEAVIER THAN 4 LBS?</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Priority
international boxes take up to 20 lbs, cost a fortune, and require the
#2976 Customs Form. Sketched in Priority section below.</span></p>
<br>
<br>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="1stClassIntlPkgs"></a>1st
Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES - 4 lbs max <small>- most but not all destinations increased in 2019</small></span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Flat rate Priority Int'l is
reasonable, but, if you can't fit their flat rate boxes, then you need
1st Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES. <span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
First-Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES </span>is also called <span style="font-weight: bold;">First-Class Pkg INTERNATIONAL SERVICE.</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
This is the <span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>"Letter Post" </span>group which
embraces everything that is not "shipping"; namely, LCs (Letters and
Cards)
joined
with AO ("Air Mail -- Other"). <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Available online
at discounts up to 10%. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">To
get the appropriate <span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span><a href="http://postcalc.usps.gov/">USPS calculator</a>,
pick the small tan carton symbol, enter a weight under 4 lbs, and a
country overseas. Skip all the Priority choices and click on a
closed menu item labeled "First-Class Int'l Options" (or "Other
Services") to open it.
Hiding the choices most people need is not what a democratic government
should do
to its own people. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
Size limit is 1 cubic foot maximum, and no one dimension over 24
inches. <br>
Rolled up poster maximum: width: 36" x 3"diameter. If you roll it
up 1" wider diameter, take 2 inches off your max length.<br>
Customs Form 2976 (the green one) must be filled out, max value is $400. This is sooo tedious. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <a name="1stClassIntlPkgsTable"></a>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">YELLOW IS YOUR COST TO SEND ONE eBAY
ITEM BACK TO CHINA <br>
</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width: 965px; height: 251px;" alt="Postage Rates for International Small Packages as of 27 Jan 2019" title="Int'l Small Pkgrs 27 January 2019" src="Chart-IntlSmallPkgs-2019Jan27+Ylw.jpg"> <br>
</p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">WE've
GOT A LIST-OF-COUNTRIES for USING THE CHART ABOVE<br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Try the <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html">alphabetized list of the most common
countries </a>with their zones. The <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html#LongList">full list</a> follows it; you
can use "CONTROL-F for find" to jump-search the list in most
browsers. Finally, I <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html#ByZoneList">sorted
the list by zone </a>for
those of us who need to get some idea how the shipping world is divided
up (what each zone means). <br>
For the chart above, use the first-class zones on the
right of the list (any version). <br>
</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Zones 1 and 2
are always Canada and Mexico. <br>
Zone 3 is Australia, China & Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea -- in
Asia, our three big trading partners and closest surveillance
ally. <br>
Zone 4 is Turkey, Russia, and Eastern Europe. <br>
Zone 5 is Europe, east including Kosovo and Serbia. <br>
Zone 6 is what most people think of as Asia, including India and
Pakistan, but not China, Japan, Korea. <br>
Zone 7 is Africa and some island nations (Seychelles east off Africa,
Indian Ocean)<br>
Zone 8 is the Middle East, Arab sheikdoms, Algeria. <br>
Zone 9 is remote
island nations and our neighbors in this hemisphere,
in both nearby Central America and throughout South America.<br>
<img style="width: 151px; height: 200px;" alt="FamilyFaces" title="FamilyAllSameFace" src="FamilyAllSameFace.jpg" align="left"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;"> THE
COST DIFFERENCES <br>
BETWEEN THESE ZONES </span><br style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;">
ARE IRRATIONAL </span><br style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;"> AND
TOO SMALL </span><br style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;"> TO
JUSTIFY THE ZONES EXISTENCE </span><br style="font-family: Arial Narrow; font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-family: Arial Narrow;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"> IN
THE FIRST PLACE.</span> </span><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 80px;" class="MsoNormal"><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><rant> MAIL SOMETHING TO CHINA?</span>
For the smallest box (8 oz or less), it recently (2017) took $13.75 to
cover the
cost (Zone 3 above). <br>
Yet at any moment on eBay, the number of
items
listed for sale, whose <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">total cost </span></span>is
$13.50 or less, is about 4 million. <br>
If $13.75 is the true cost
to the post office, there's no way eBay's China traffic can pay its way
when the value of the item itself is less than Americans pay just for
postage. <br>
So many items are free shipping (85%) that there's no
pot of gold anywhere from which China
Post could compensate the United States. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">I put
<a href="ebay.html">the eBay story</a> on a separate page. eBay's
total China traffic is about <a href="ebay.html#100MillionTable">100
million items a year</a>. <span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
Ebay
collects
the fees, we don't collect the postage</span>. <br>Don't
tell me here that you
need
nine zones to avoid losses. You have losses because you can't
collect costs from China. You gave away first class parcel
delivery in quiet, binational negotiations driven by eBay for their
profit at the nation's expense. </rant><br>
</span></small></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Some <a href="History-1stClassPkgsInternational.html">price history</a> for
First-Class Package International Service.<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:country-region style="font-weight: bold;"><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;">HEAVIER THAN 4 LBS?</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Priority
international flat-rate boxes take up to 20 lbs, cost a fortune, and
require the
#2976 Customs Form . . .as sketched in Priority section below.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><small> </small>
</p>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><small>
</small><br>
<br>
<st1:country-region><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></st1:place></st1:country-region></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<p><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="Postcards"></a>Postcard
35</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">¢
International $1.15 world, unchanged 2019, 2020 </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"> </span></b><span class="Heading2CharChar"><span style="font-size: 16pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">3 <span style="font-weight: bold;">½</span>
min - 4
<big style="font-weight: bold;">¼</big> max by 5" min - 6"
max, 7 - 16 mills thick. (0.016" is "16
mills". A typical business card is 12 mills)<br>
Within the USA, the smallest permitted letters and postcards are the
same: 3 1/2" x 5". <br>
Minimum thickness 7 mills; cheap glossy ink jet photo paper is 10
mills,
so mail it. <br>
Max thickness </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">0.016" --
easier to say "16
mills", sound like a machinist who can actually make things. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
A typical business card is 12 mills. <br>
</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Too
big?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="">
</span>Too bad. Use rates for domestic first class
letter. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img src="PostCard-AncientTypefaces350.jpg" title="Postcard from World War One era" alt="Postcard-AncientTypefaces" style="width: 350px; height: 243px;" align="right"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
International postcards same, but must be <span style="font-weight: bold;">5 1/2" </span>- 6" wide vs 5"-6" domestic.<br>
Thickness 7-16 mills (0.007" = 0.016") <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
<small>Domestic postcards can be square-ish, up to 4 1/4" high by
only <span style="font-weight: bold;">5" wide</span>.<br>
For all other mail, "rectangular" means "Let's have a 30%
high-vs-wide difference." <br>
That's a simple rule, so let's apply it inconsistently for
postcards. There, done! Feel better? <br>
</small></span><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Unchanged 22Jan2017.<br>
</span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Domestic PCs up 1</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">¢ 21Jan2018, <br>
Int'l PCs unchanged at $1.15, same as a letter !!! <br>
</span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="History-Postcards.html">more price history</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="History-Postcards.html"> </a></small><small><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"><span></span></span></small><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><small><small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style=""></span></span></small></small></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><br>
<small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">Postcards offer no privacy and not much
space.<br>
Pricing International postcards up there with a 1oz International
letter kills them,<br>
kills a cultural
tradition for tourists the world over when they visit and want to
send home more than a selfie. <br>
We need the money our tourists bring, we need cheaper postcards -- 27</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ in 2008. </span></small><br>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</span></small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span></small><a href="History-Postcards.html"><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small></a><br>
<table style="text-align: left;" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2">
<tbody>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><img style="width: 250px; height: 154px;" alt="Vint Cerf's card from Google 2012" title="Vint Cerf did more than any other single person to make US the country that launched the Internet" src="VintCerf2012-250px.jpg" hspace="50"> <img style="width: 400px; height: 256px;" alt="1847-1947 Centenary of the Postage Stamp - 3cent commemorative" title="Before 1847, you just folded up the letter--no envelope--and the recipient paid the delivery fee." src="PostageStampCentenary1947-NoStampsBefor1847-3CentStamp-400px.jpg">
<br>
</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
16 mills</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">THICKNESS
LIST</span><br>
3 mills (0.003 inch) - El Cheapo copier paper<br>
4 mills - brightest white copier paper<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">7 mills + is legal for
postcards</span><br>
9 mills - sheet of ordinary ("110 lb") card stock (good enough for post
cards)<br>
11 mills - glossy 4x6 photos (Postcards to anywhere can be 3.5 - 4.25 x
5.5 to 6
inches -- just mail your photo.) <br>
BUSINESS CARDS<br>
feels cheap: 8 mills<br>
feels normal: 12 mills<br>
feels impressive: 16 mills (=max mills for postcards)<br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></st1:place></st1:country-region><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="SpellE">Aerograms</span>
/ Air
Letter <span class="GramE">Sheets <span style=""> </span>are</span>
discontinued by the postal service of the </span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span style="font-family: Arial;">United States</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span style="font-family: Arial;">. .<span style=""> </span>Aerograms were $0.75
to any <span class="GramE">country, postage printed on the paper,
no stamps. Write whatever you
want, mail it to any address -- done. Simplicity -- the good old
days. <br>
</span></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index2013Jan9Working.html#FirstClass"><br>
</a><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small> </small>
</a>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="PriorityMail"></a><big>Domestic PRIORITY Envelope &
BOXES, up in 2017,2018,2019, 2020 </big> </span></b><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></b></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>For
local shipments, use straight Priority and drop the flat rate
boxes.<br>
</big></span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Otherwise, let's
concentrate on flat
rate. </span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <br>
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;">$7.35 </span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;">
flat rate envelope</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
domestic, any
zone, any weight, 2019</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
as</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> long
as you can seal the envelope without extra tape, <br>
Add </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">30</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
for legal length; 65</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢ for
padded envelope. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span>10April2016: no more online discounts for citizens, only
corporate customers.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img style="width: 400px; height: 340px;" alt="AirplaneSkidsThruBrickWall-TeterboroNJ-2005" title="AirplaneSkidsThruBrickWall-TeterboroNJl-2005" src="AirplaneSkidsThruBrickWall-TeterboroNJl-2005.jpg" align="right"></span></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;">$7.90
small flat rate box </span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;">domestic,
any zone, any weight, </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">as</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> long
as you can close the flaps on the seams. <span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">10April2016: no more
online discounts for citizens. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8" inside<small style="font-style: italic;"> </small></span><b style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
$14.35
regular/medium flat
rate box </span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;">any zone, 70
lb max, </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">up 70</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">¢</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span>in 2019<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">10April2016: no more online discounts
for citizens. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial;"> </span>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>
Two medium-size boxes are
available:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">11"
x 8.5" x 5.5" and</span><br>
<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">
13.625" x
11.875" x 3.375"</span></span><br>
</p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="GramE"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;">$18.90
large-size box
</span>to any zone, 70 lb max, </o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">up $1.05 in 2019</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p>
</o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">$18.45 for APO/FPO/Diplomatic </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">up $1.05 in 2019</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">10April2016: no more online discounts
for citizens. <br></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
Two large-size boxes are
available:<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
12" x 12" x 5.5" <br>
23 11/16" x 11 3/4" x 3" <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS<br>
</span></b><big style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">
<br>PRIORITY is the only thing ordinary slobs (American citizens) can buy online.<br>
Corporate customers can buy all domestic services on line, some at nice discounts.<br>
To
send Priority Flat-Rate Boxes with the old ON LINE DISCOUNT</span>,
</big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>try this
unpublicized </big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>Web
address): <a href="https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow">https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow</a>
(Thank you, JohnD.) </big></span></big>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small>You
must be a registered PayPal user (initially owned by eBay). </small></big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small>This
page normally comes up only if you sold something on eBay and must ship
it, so you would normally be signed in already. If the site sends you
to a bad login page or can't get back to shipping after login, just log
into PayPal <span style="font-weight: bold;">on another browser tab</span>, then go back to the ShipNow tab. Browser cookies will keep you logged in, and all will
run smoothly.
</small></big></span></big></p><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>Do you use <a href="https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/">https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/</a> ? I've heard "low volume" individuals can use it, and the rates are good for Priority.</big></span></big><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Meanwhile, if it's not a
flat rate
shipment,
you can use your own box. <br>
If it's virtually a local shipment, don't use flat-rate.<br>
If it's local, Parcel Post ("Retail Ground") won't take it anyway, so
you <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">have
to</span></span> use Priority, and, as we just said, unzoned is cheaper
if the distance is local. <br>
If it's light (a fluffy sweater for Mommy), don't use flat rate -- they
push up what those boxes cost because people usually ship heavy tools
and supplies, not fluffy sweaters for Mommy. <br>
70 lbs is the limit throughout the USPS, period: Retail Ground,
Media Rate,
Priority, anything. <br>
If you don't have a written receipt, don't buy insurance. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a name="YouCantMailEverything"></a>Remember, you can't mail
everything, there are <a href="USPS-ForbiddenItems.html">no-no's</a>.
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
For APO/FPO/Diplomatic mail, <span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span>go online because a lot of
destinations don't have service for
bigger sizes.<br>
You need to do Form2976A (weight, value, all
the addresses).<br>
Presents can't be alcoholic drinks or tobacco or fresh fruits or
veg, or <br>
perfume ("fragrances" in alcohol).
Lithium batteries are forbidden<br>
while the airline industry reacts to spontaneous combustion of <br>
early-tech batteries that have disappeared. <br>
Be patient, battery issues are not the Post
Office's fault. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">The flat-rate-size Priority
boxes may be used internationally
(20 lb </span><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="GramE">maximum;
4 lbs for the small
one).<br>
See Priority Mail International below. Cheer up, you're not
mailing the <a href="HopeDiamond.html">Hope Diamond</a>. <br>
<br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">TO GET FREE PRIORITY BOXES: </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p> <br>
<a href="https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_SMALL_FRB&categoryId=international-shipping">small
boxes</a><br>
<a href="https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_O_FRB2&categoryId=international-shipping">medium
boxes</a> Why does this domestic box link say "International
shipping"? Oh well, it works for now . . . <br>
https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_O_FRB2&<span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">categoryId=international-shipping</span><br>
<a href="https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_LARGE_FRB&categoryId=free-shipping-supplies">large
boxes</a> <br>
https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_LARGE_FRB&<span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">categoryId=free-shipping-supplies</span><br>
</o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><br>
If these links stop working, search on <span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">site:store.usps.com
Priority Mail Flat Rate Boxes</span><span style="font-style: italic;"><br>
</span>Look for a hit from store.usps.com. <br>
Most search engines will do a "site search" like that, and they search
better than any search facility on the site itself. Who knows
why, just try it. <br>
</o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">SIZE LIMITS --
Escape from a flat rate box. <br>
<br style="font-weight: bold;">
Internationally, NON-FLAT-RATE
PRIORITY </span>costs about as much as the large box, and <span style="font-weight: bold;">gives you sizes up</span>
to 79" long and length plus girth of 108 inches. Forget
Express Mail, not only more costly, but more limited in size: 42" long
and length plus girth of 79
inches (2013). Sometimes there are country-specific
surprises. <br>
<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span>Over
108", Priority stops (airplanes get crowded fast)
and Retail Ground (formerly Parcel Post) is all you have left.
Stay under the 70 lb limit, but your particular weight
becomes irrelevant when your box becomes large. That's because,
after 108"
length+girth, you pay the "Oversize Penalty Price" until
130"
for length + girth brings your expulsion from the Postal Service
altogether. Remember that girth is width + height +
width + height. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="https://postcalc.usps.com">Check prices online</a>. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">ABOUT THAT 70 LB WEIGHT
LIMIT</span>: the maximum box weight, any size,
domestic shipment, is 70 lbs. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Pouring
the small box full of liquid lead gets you 29 lbs, so I'd say, for
small boxes, 70 lbs shows an intelligence limit. Maybe ship the
small box to Jupiter, whose gravity will bring little box of lead up to
68 1/2 lbs. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
You
can fill any box with a solid block of aluminum and they'll
ship
it. (On the large box, leave 1/2" of free space on top.)
The medium-sized boxes can be about half-full of solid
iron. The
large box needs to be under 1/3 full of iron to pass -- solid
iron
all the way up to the top of the box would be 225 lbs, lead
would
be 325 lbs., and don't even think of gold.
I have a friend who could handle the 552 lb avoirdupois weight if
you sent him a large priority box filled with it, but I
don't have the $8 million to buy it. (552.5 lbs Au, 14.583 Troy
oz per
lb
Av. With gold at $1000/Troy oz Troy, that's $8M. 2018, up
to $1300 -- I
waste my time
with these stupid calculations while
everyone else makes money trading on the precious metals market. </span></small><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Insurance: </span></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Pre-May 12, 2008:
insurance up to $500
was available on-line; <br>
up to $5,000 if you presented the
package to a Post Office clerk. $5,000 is still the limit,
2016. <br>
$50 worth of insurance is free. Declare even a dollar more, and
you pay a $3..35 insurance fee. <br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>For some easy-to-steal-and-sell
items, you may be forced to
get
insurance when you fill out the customs form. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Priority âDimensional
Pricingâ -- beyond flat rate: </span><br>
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Packages</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> larger than 1 cubic foot
traveling far <span style=""> </span>(Zones
5 through 8) are priced by size because
such trips use air transportation.<span style="">
Or rather, you use the same old tables that price everything
by
weight, but you must use an imaginary weight calculated from your
package size as </span> <span style="font-weight: bold;">8.9 lbs
per cubic foot</span>.
These "balloon rate" mythical weights work out to be <span class="SpellE">LxWxH</span>
in inches
divided by 194 (No idea. I just work here). <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">ONLINE DISCOUNT
HISTORY: </span><br>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">10April2016: no more online
discounts for citizens, only corporate customers.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><br></small><span style="font-family: Arial;"><small>018: Dear USPS: Why no online
discount for Click-N-Ship? Putting clerks on a service counter
costs you money. <br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Answer
#1: </span>Amazon and UPS (the brown trucks) served on the USPS Board of Governors. They didn't care when online
discounts were killed. <br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Answer #2:</span> A <a href="https://about.usps.com/postal-act-2006/postal-accountability-and-enhancement-act.pdf">Congressional
bill</a> made it hard to increase letter rates
(only the post office carries letters, they could have made money on
their
monopoly) <br>
and easier to increase package rates. Presto, the USPS
prices itself out of the market. Get ready to paint 227,000
trucks brown.<br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Answer #3:</span> Online purchases of all domestic services were killed, except for PRIORITY, where online discounts were canceled <span style="font-weight: bold;">because</span>
revenues were too successful. On-line
revenues nearly doubled between 2008 and 2014 for the USPS. Package
traffic soared as eCommerce exploded. Here was an Internet effect that
actually benefited the USPS (unlike email, online bill payment, and
the collapse of subscriptions to printed news source). The myth that
the USPS can't make money and the government can never learn how to run
a business had to be supported. Therefore, the income was taken away.
Get ready to paint 227,000 trucks brown.</small> <br>
<br>
PRICE HISTORY<br>
</span><small><span style="font-family: Arial;">
4April2016: online mailing labels no longer sold at <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">https://postcalc.usps.com</a>;
<br>
you will be transferred to Click-N-Ship where you
must set up an account. <br>
Log in at <a href="https://cns.usps.com/">cns.usps.com</a><br>
4April2016: No more online discounts for the public.
Try a corporation like stamps.com or use </span><big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow">https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow</a></span></big></big></small><br>
<small><span style="font-family: Arial;">
22Jan2017: prices up, still no online discount. </span></small><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p><span style="font-weight: bold;">
<a href="History-PriorityFlatRateDomestic.html"><small>more price
history</small></a><br>
<br>
</span></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
</p>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small> </small>
</a>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-weight: bold;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style=""> </span><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
<br>
<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="IntlPriority"></a><big>INTERNATIONAL Priority Mail </big><br>
</span></b><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">When it's bigger than a flat (they call manila
envelopes "flats"), try these flat rate boxes (20 lbs max) or "1st-Class
Package International Service" (4 lbs max). <br>
Flat rate box sizes same as all other Priority boxes. <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">1. CANADA - FLAT RATE ENVELOPE (stnd or
legal) & SMALL BOX (4lbs
max -- could be $50 w/o flat rate)</span> <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">envelope
$25.85</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
.<br>
small box
$26.85 <br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">2. CANADA - MEDIUM FLAT RATE BOX (20 lbs
max --
could be $101 if you didn't have flat rate) </span><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">$49.60 <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">3. CANADA - LARGE FLAT RATE BOX </span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">(20 lbs
max --
could be $101 if you didn't have flat rate) </span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
$64.50 </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;">
27 January 2019<br>
<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span>The non-flat rate price table for Canada 2019 is here: <a href="https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c330">https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c330</a><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></span></span>Normally, in the 1,2,3,4, etc., country list, "1"
is Canada and "2" is Mexico, but we can't have "1" because Canada
herself gets a whole set of rate zones. <br>
The rates depend on where <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">YOU</span></span> live, not on where your pkg is going. West Coast USA costs more. The flat rates above are easier. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">
<img style="width: 1000px; height: 427px;" alt="Chart-IntlPriorityFlatRateBoxes-2019Jan27" title=""Priority Mail Int'l" flat rates for ROW, not Canada" src="Chart-IntlPriorityFlatRateBoxes-2019Jan27.jpg"><br>
<br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">TO USE THE TABLE ABOVE, GO FOR ZONE "B" in
the COUNTRIES LISTS <br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">We have an <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html">alphabetized list of the <span style="font-weight: bold;">most common</span> countries </a>with
their zones. <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">On the country list, the
so-called <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">zone "B" </span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"></span>column
gives you the correct 2,3,4,5,6,7, or 8 column to use in the table
above. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
The <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html#LongList">full list</a> follows the "most commons". Also, you can use "CONTROL-F for find" to search the list in most
browsers. Finally, I <a href="USPS-CountriesList.html#ByZoneList">sorted
the list by first class zone</a></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">.
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
The missing column 1 is Canada.<br>
Column 2 is Latin America: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador,
Mexico. But some countries are in the "doghouse" column (8):
Costa Rica, El Salvador.<br>
Column 3: China, Indonesia, Japan, S. Korea<br>
Column 4: EU countries (European Union), but not Hungary (8, doghouse)<br>
Column 5: India, Norway . . . naturally, look what they have in common.<br>
Column 6: New Zealand, Pakistan<br>
Column 7: Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria<br>
Column 8, doghouse: Hungary, Greece, Algeria, Russia, South Africa, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Uganda, Cost Rica, El Salvador. <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<a href="History-PriorityFlatRateInternational.html"><small>some price
history</small></a><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">METRIC SYSTEM: 66 LBS
MAX IN MANY COUNTRIES<br>
Although 20 lbs is the official limit, some countries will go up to 66
lbs </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">if
you go outside the flat rate system and pay $200, even $300 to
some places. <br>
<br>
Starting in 2014, nearly every country in the
world refused to carry the United States' Postal Service maximum
of 70 lbs, because nearly every country in the world went metric
and 30kg is the limit everywhere, and 30 kg is 66 lbs not 70. <br>
<br>
</span>
<div style="text-align: center;">
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img style="width: 800px; height: 352px;" alt="Map of world countries using the metric system." title="Liberia, Myamar and a certain other place have not officially adopted the metric system." src="MapOfCountriesNotMetric-800px.jpg"> </span><br>
</div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<small> </small><br>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<small> <br>
</small><br>
<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="ExpressMail"></a></span></b><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><a href="index.html#FirstClass"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></a><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">Domestic Express
Mail -- Does everybody agree I can drop this page<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="ExpressMail"></a></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">
because the prices are ridiculous?</span></b>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">2019: Domestic express is only a "commercial" service -- probably not sold online at all. Let me know.<br>
$22.80 for a flat rate envelope, flat rate boxes dropped, nobody used
them; </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <span style="font-weight: bold;">$372</span> to impress someone with a 70
lb carton shipped across the country.<br>
To
find the the free stuff page, search on <span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">site:store.usps.com
$0.00 express mail box </span>like this: <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Astore.usps.com++%240.00+express+mail+box">sample
search.</a> <br>
<a href="History-ExpressMail.html">some price history</a><br>
<a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">https://postcalc.usps.com</a></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-weight: bold;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style=""> </span><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span><small><br>
</small><br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style=""> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b>
<p><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="MediaMail"></a>Media
Mail Rates -- BOOKS </span></b><span class="GramE"><span class="Heading2CharChar"><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></span><br>
</p>
<span class="GramE"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Flat rate,
no zones so it does not get cheaper locally, but even locally it is
still cheapest per pound if you qualify. <br>
</span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">OK
for: books, sheet music, movies and music on CDs, DVDs,
educational maps & charts if there's not a lot of text.
<br>
<br>
Because <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;">advertising
is forbidden, you must take all magazines out of
your box.</span> The books themselves may add only incidental
announcements of other books -- as old-fashioned publishers so often
did on the otherwise blank end-pages. <br>
<br>
</span></span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">No
video games (they're media, yes; but educational, no). No blank hard
drives, no blank tapes (not a movie, not music, just merchandise). <br>
<br></span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">At the Post
Office, be
prepared to open and reseal the box. So, </span><span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: Arial;">if
you
want to support book bindings, wrap the books
tight in "stretch (plastic) wrap" not brown paper, because you can see
through it, and you can even unwind it and kind of wind it back
on. Liquor store
cartons are stronger than supermarket cartons, but you have to
obliterate anything that makes it look like you're shipping alcohol.
(Use up your old aerosol spray cans, or buy a new one in Pro Shipper
tan.) <br>
<br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
Yes, it goes to 70 lbs,
see </span><a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">https://postcalc.usps.com</span></big></span>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> If you don't qualify,
regular "Retail Ground" (formerly Parcel Post) is double to
triple
the cost, depending on zone. </span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">After 21Jan2018: Domestic
Rates 27Jan2019:
1st lb increases $2.66 to $2.75, increment rises from 51 to 52¢ /lb, 70
lbs is $38.63 </span><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">1 pound: $2.75
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">One CD/DVD
in a padded env is
$3.66 to $4.06 (4oz; it became zoned in 2019) as a small parcel (1st class service, 13 oz max) .<br>
Two</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> CDs
in an env is a $4.39-$4.81 parcel (7oz; it became zoned in 2019), so media mail is cheaper both times. </span><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
Add 52¢/lb until the end at 70 lb for $38.63<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Up to 5 pounds: $ 4.70 in 2018 -> $4.83 in 2019<br>
Up to 20 pounds: $12.35 -> $12.63<br>
Up to 40 lbs $22.55 -> $23.03<br>
70 lbs max
$37.85 -> $38.63<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS<br>
</span></b><big style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">
To get Media Mail shipping labels on-line</span>, </big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>try this
unpublicized </big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>Web
address): <a href="https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow">https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow</a>
(Thank you, JohnD.) </big></span></big>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small>You
must be a registered PayPal user. You
must enter a PayPal user name and password. I suggest
logging in on the normal paypal.com home page and **then** going to the
paypal.com/<span style="font-weight: bold;">ShipNow</span> page (which
assumes you are completing a sale and are already logged in).
Specify
USPS, not UPS. After entering an address (no address book
facility, sorry) you want to get to a page that asks you to specify a
SERVICE TYPE. There you can select MEDIA MAIL.</small></big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small><br>
April2016: still not available online from the post office. </small></big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small> </small></big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small> </small></big></span></big></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="History-MediaMail.html"><small><span style="font-weight: bold;">some
price history</span><br style="font-weight: bold;">
</small></a>
</span><a href="History-MediaMail.html"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><small><small style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small> </small></span></small></small></a><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span><small> </small>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders</span></a>
</small><small> </small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<small>
</small><br>
<h2><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="ParcelPost"></a>BEGIN PARCEL
POST (this is horrible) </span><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black"; font-weight: normal;"></span><big style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big></h2>
<h2><big style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><big style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>For DIYers (Do It Yourselfers), here are the <a href="ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html">parcel post rate charts</a> with
zones. So now you need a zone number. A chart to give
you the zone # from your own ZipCode <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/Zonecharts/">can be
printed here</a> -- as illustrated below. </big></span></big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>To
look up Retail Ground costs online, the calculator page is <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/">https://postcalc.usps.com</a>
But you can only buy Priority shipping labels online -- we're talking
Parcel Post service here (cheaper). If the USPS doesn't sell
Parcel Post shipping labels online, where can you turn? </big></span><big style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big> </big></span></big><big style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></h2>
<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS</span></b><big style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
</span></big></span></big>
<big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></big><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"></span></b><big style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">To
send Retail Ground (parcel post) pkgs ON LINE</span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">, </span></big></span></big><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big>try this unpublicized URL
("</big></span></big><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big>Universal
Resource Locater" or </big></span></big><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big>Web
address): <a href="https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow">https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow</a>
(Thank you, JohnD.) As a corporate customer, you will enjoy lower
rates ("Parcel Select") not available to American citizens ("Retail
Ground"). The rest of you please line up at the counter. </big></span></big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
(Here's the in-line-at-the-counter vs on-line <a href="ParcelPostZoneChartQCompareZone8.html">rate chart comparison</a> for a coast-to-coast box.)</span><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big><br>
<br>
Have your carton dimensions, address & weight handy. </big></span></big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><small> </small></big></span></big><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big>You
must be a registered PayPal user (initially owned by eBay, Inc). </big></span></big><big style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><big>This
page normally comes up only if you sold something on eBay and must ship
it, so you would normally be signed in already. If the site sends
you
to a bad login page or you can't get back to your carton shipment after
login, just log
into PayPal <span style="font-weight: bold;">on another browser tab</span>,
then go back to your <span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>ShipNow</span> tab. You won't
be stuck anymore. Browser cookies will keep you logged in, and
you can get your shipping label and pay for it. </big></span></big><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> We're all
praying for you. </span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;">
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><rant>THE
COUNTRY & ITS MAIL STREAM WOULD BE MORE SECURE IF WE COULD
PRINT USPS SHIPPING LABELS online. We would be more secure
because your identity and your shipping data are better known when you
are online, longer
remembered and easier to search and retrieve, compared to just pushing
a box across the
counter (as retail customers are supposed to do). </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;">And
the USPS could compete better with corporate UPS and its little brown
trucks. Why are you holding us back? Doing this page for
many years has shown me a postal service being
mis-managed on purpose to make it unprofitable and to justify taking it
over. </rant></span><br>
</div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><br>
I<big> hope you're done and just mailed someone a present. Everything below is just details.<br>
<br>
</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></big></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="ParcelPostRestrictions"></a>PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") -
SHIPPING RESTRICTIONS </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">ANY 1-PAGE LOOK AT GOVERNMENT
REGULATIONS THAT RESTRICT MAIL SERVICE <a href="USPS-ForbiddenItemsParcelPostSecn.html">IS GOING TO BE INCOMPLETE</a> <- complete restricted materials sec'n </span></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><img style="width: 400px; height: 371px;" alt="USPS Label 139 for cremated remains; Priority Mail only" title="USPS Label 139 for cremated remains; Priority Mail only" src="Label-CrematedRemains.jpg" align="right"></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
</big></span>
<ul>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>never: alcoholic
beverages (the Internal Revenue Service wants to catch all the taxes)</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>never:
ammunition</big></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>never:
explosives, even fireworks <br>
</big></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>never:
any invitation/advertising to use money to participate in a lottery or
raffle</big></span></li>
<ul>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Clubs/non-profits
doing a charity raffle can say something like this: check box: "
Please enter my name in the drawing. I do not wish to make a donation
at this time." If you're running the raffle, you can even enclose
the little raffle ticket to
keep in case they win. <br>
</big></span></li>
</ul>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>lots
of rules for <span style="font-weight: bold;">firearms</span> (the ATF
-- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives in the Dept. of Justice -- wants to control this)<br>
</big></span></li>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>never
for most of us: <span style="font-weight: bold;">switchblade knife</span>
-- Armed Forces, National Guard, state and municipal procurement
officers, they all can get their switchblades in the mail; the rest of
us will just have to meet our buddies in a bar or have a barbecue and
trade our best ones. <br>
</big></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>lots
of rules for <span style="font-weight: bold;">aerosols, flammables,
liquids of any kind</span>, even a urine specimen. My quart
bottles of epoxy always come with extra tape to hold the cap on
tight. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">powerful
magnets</span>
able to deviate a compass needle at 7 feet because their
magnetic flux was not short-circuited away by putting iron
"keepers" on them (the Department of Transportation looks bad when
planes fall out of the</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>sky--it's their rule). <br>
</big></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">Lithium batteries</span>.
You can avoid special labeling with 7 or fewer non-rechargeable
"lithium metal" cells of under 20Wh each (roughly C-cell or smaller) or
a single rechargeable "lithium ion" (aka lithium polymer) battery (e.g,
notebook battery) under 100Wh. Otherwise, here's <a href="Simple%20Postage%20-%20shipping%20or%20flying%20with%20lithium%20batteries.html">what I've learned about batteries so far</a>, glad to get better information from you. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">Replicas: </span></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>
Post Office and <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/us/video-shows-cleveland-officer-shot-tamir-rice-2-seconds-after-pulling-up-next-to-him.html?_r=0">law
enforcement take weapons replicas very seriously</a>. A fake
replica of a hand grenade </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>has
to be registered mail, </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><img style="width: 375px; height: 264px;" alt="Cartoon-Defrosting-DoYouStillWantThis-TomCheney2006Mar3" title="Tom Cheney, March 3, 2006 "Defrosting - Do you still want this?"" src="Cartoon-Defrosting-DoYouStillWantThis-TomCheney2006Mar3-375.jpg" align="right"></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>so it can't</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> be Parcel Post (aka "</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Retail
Gro</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>und").</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> You</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> have to write "Replica Explosive" in letters at
least 1/4" high on the box. Yes, it's legal, but get it boxed and
<span style="font-weight: bold;">keep it in the box</span>. If you want to shut down your own post office and the rest of your day, just
walk in with a hand grenade and tell everyone it's just a replica. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
</big></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">Contraceptives.
If she asked for help getting her birth control pills, get a letter
proving "solicitation" </span></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">before you</span></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"> get a criminal record. </span></big></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: italic;">"Unsolicited
samples of an article or thing designed, adapted, or intended for
preventing conception is permitted in the mail only when sent to a
manufacturer or a dealer of such an article or things, to a license</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: italic;">d
physician or</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: italic;"> surgeon, or to</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: italic;"> a nurse, </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: italic;">pharmacist, druggist, hospital, or
clinic (39 USC 3001; <span style="font-weight: bold;">18 USC 1461</span>)." <span style="font-weight: bold;"> -</span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">-></span> 18USC1461? The post office regulations are citing the wrong law of the land. This citation
by the</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> US Postal Service of United States Code1461 in <a href="https://pe.usps.com/Archive/HTML/DMMArchive20030810/C024.htm">their own postal regulations</a>
(it's at the bottom when talking about "preventing conception")
suggests some people
at the USPS don't see any difference between contraception and
abortion. 1461 is about <span style="font-weight: bold;">abortion</span>, not <span style="font-weight: bold;">contraception</span>. I can't believe lawyers inscribing the law of the land into the federal statute books use language like this: </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></li>
</ul>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big> <img style="width: 600px; height: 213px;" alt="30USC3001 (contraception) and 18USC1461 (abortion)" title="Postal Regulations forbid sending birth control pills to your girlfriend, unless you can prove she asked you for them." src="USCode1461-Abortion.jpg"></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><br>
BOTTOM LINE ABOUT ANYTHING: If in doubt, go to the Post
Office. I would just see if
they'll take whatever it is and not ask questions because they're not
supposed to answer: "Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on
the legality of any shipment of firearms." I'm quoting official regulations here: <a href="http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_010.htm">433 Legal
Opinions on Mailing Firearms</a><br>
<br></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">PARCEL POST OVERVIEW </span></big></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>RETAIL
GROUND (PARCEL POST) is the cheapest postal service,
and
the one that takes very large, very heavy boxes. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Write
"USPS Retail Ground"
on the box if using stamps instead of a mailing label. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Parcel Post will
not take local traffic to Zones 1 to 4. (A ZipCode-to-Zone chart
is
below, and you can easily make one centered on the place where you
live.) Try regular (not flat rate) Priority for just local or
lightweight stuff.
<br>
<br>
PRIORITY, PARCEL POST, or BROWN TRUCKS? I
use flat rate
Priority if it fits the box, parcel post (Retail Ground) for
small stuff that doesn't fit, and the brown UPS trucks for heavy boxes
(over 5 lbs or
so). </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><a style="font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;" href="http://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US&WT.svl=PriNav">http://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US&WT.svl=PriNav</a><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>
<br>
<br>
Don't buy insurance if you don't have the receipt. <a href="InsuranceWarning.html">More precautions here</a>.<br>
<br>
</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Please pack nicely. DON'T JUST DROP YOUR ITEM INTO THE CARTON &
THEN FILL IT.<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Place
padding into the bottom of the box first</span>, THEN add the
shipment. You want the item <span style="font-weight: bold;">floating
away from the walls,</span> not crashing into them when you shake the
box. <br>
</big></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>
. <br>
</big></span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">THE BIG BOX PENALTIES </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">in PARCEL POST
("Retail Ground") SERVICE</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>
<br>
</big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">
AVOIDING THE TWO PITFALLS OF RETAIL GROUND (Parcel Post)<br>
</span></big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big>Retail
Ground (Parcel Post) can be cheaper than UPS if you
avoid two
pitfalls. </big></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"><big><br style="font-weight: bold;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
1. AVOIDING THE RETAIL GROUND
BALLOON RATE
PITFALL AT 84 INCHES</span><br>
When
you are under 20 lbs (as most gifts and eBay shipments are), then
keep the box length plus girth under 84"or you will pay for 20 lbs (up
to $62.25
across the country, 2019) regardless of actual
weight. Think of a
balloon
rate box as a flat rate box at the 20 lb rate. If you're stuck
with the size, enjoy the weight -- put something else in.
(Ordinary,
non-flat-rate Priority Mail has the same 20lb/84 inches penalty in the
more local zones 1-4.) <br>
<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">2. AVOIDING THE PARCEL POST
OVERSIZE PITFALL AT 108 - 130 INCHES</span><br>
If your length + girth goes over 108 inches, you pay an oversize
penalty. Going across country with 70 lbs., your oversize
cost is <span style="font-weight: bold;">$196.61</span> (2019; $183.75 in<span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span>2018; $132.20
in 2014), when a smaller box would have been "only" <span style="font-weight: bold;">$136.17 </span>(in 2019; $130.51.<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>$105.83 in 2014). <br>
<br>
Once you're penalized with this "dimensional weight" charge, you can
pack
your shipment up in as large a carton as you want (up to the maximax of
length+girth of130 inches) and throw in some extra items . . . the price isn't
going to change with either your weight (up to 70 lbs) or your size (up
to 130 inches length + girth). <br>
<br>
</big></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Over 130", you are
expelled from the Postal System.
Go directly to UPS or FedEx Freight, do not pass Go, do not
pay any more penalties. <br>
130" and 70 lbs are the limits no USPS service can exceed. <br>
</span>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
To get parcel post in the USPS rate calculator, choose "package"
or
"large package". <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com">https://postcalc.usps.com</a></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Measure and weigh the carton first, get your two Zip codes. <br>
<a href="History-StandardPost.html">some price history</a></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">GETTING YOUR OWN 1.ZONE
AND 2.RATE TABLES
for PARCEL POST</span><br>
<br>
Still trying to run a small business? Need to get six boxes
out this morning without going online or to the post office?<br>
You need two
charts, your own stamps, and you'll have to present your packages in
person at the Post Office counter, <br>
unless you use the corporate privileges that eBay and PayPal have
gotten for their customers, the ones <a href="#ParcelPost">I told you
about above</a> ("unpublicized").<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>If your
business grows, you will yearn for these lower prices on the business
calculator page: <a href="https://dbcalc.usps.com/">https://dbcalc.usps.com/</a><br>
but you have to bring everything to a BMEU, Business Mail Entry Unit.<br>
See if there's a BMEU near you: <a href="https://ribbs.usps.gov/locators/find-bme.cfm">https://ribbs.usps.gov/locators/find-bme.cfm</a><br>
If you figure out how to qualify, write me jerry_postage@nelsonic.org so I can share it. <br>
<br>
</big></span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Meanwhile, for the retail-level DIY
route: <br>
</span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;">
<ol>
<li><span style="font-family: Arial;">You need to go from
destination Zip code to a postal zone, and then </span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Arial;">You need a chart of rates per
pound (for all those postal zones). </span></li>
</ol>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><a name="PostalZones"></a>PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") -- Do It Yourself
w/ZONES FROM ZIP CODES</span></b>
<small><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><br>
A personalized chart from my town McLean to ZIP XXXxx</span></small>
<p class="MsoNormal"><big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>It's easy to get
your own chart at <a href="https://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts">https://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts/</a>
.or same thing 2019: <a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart">https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart</a></big><br>
</span></big></big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>These
charts work for Priority boxes that are not flat
rate,
and for Parcel Post. Both have big-box
penalties. <br>
</big></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>Parcel
Post and non-flatrate-Priority have the same 20lb/84inch <span style="font-weight: bold;">balloon box problem</span>, but only for
local-ish Priority boxes (Zones 1-4).<br>
Parcel Post big boxes have the oversize <span style="font-weight: bold;">dimensional weight penalty at 108"</span>.<br>Priority starts its oversize <span style="font-weight: bold;">dimensional
weight penalty at 60"</span>, but only for distant Priority boxes
(Zones 5-8).</big></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>Go
to the zone chart, then the rate table, and you're done? Not so
fast.</big></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;">THE SPECIAL CASE OF PARCEL POST ZONES 1
THROUGH 4</span></big></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></big></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Parcel
post zones 1-4 do not exist.</span>
You have to use Priority. (Try the non-flat-rate kind of
Priority; it is probably cheaper for local, zone 1-4 shipments).<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">So why do we have 1-4 zones if we
can't use them? </span>Wrong!!
They are used, just not by you. Ground shipment is required for
all stuff that knocks airplanes out of the sky, so we keep zones 1 thru
4 alive for people forced into ground transportation. If it weren't for dangerous
materials shippers, we'd never send our trucks out on such short routes. .
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">If we don't use zones 1-4, why not
abolish them? </span>Clarity of vision is a key part of the
leadership we do not have. Just mail your silly box. <br>
</big></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><img style="width: 700px; height: 912px;" alt="Chart from postcalc.usps.com/Zonecharts" title="Create your own chart showing how far away any ZIP code is from you." src="ParcelPostZipZoneExample2016.jpg"><br>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p>Above: a chart
from </o:p></span><big><big><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts/">https://postcalc.usps.com/Zonecharts/</a>
</span></big></big><br>
</p>
<b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";"><br>
PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") - Do It Yourself w/THE PRICE CHART (RATE
TABLE) </span></b><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br>
<a href="ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html">
THE PARCEL POST RATE TABLE</a> - 2019 PRICES BY ZONES</span></big></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
You've got the zone number. Now you need a table of charges to
that zone for all the weights up to 70 lb max. <br>
Because of its large size, the parcel post rate chart is on <a href="ParcelPostZoneChart.html"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">a page</span></a><a href="ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html"> all by itself</a><a href="ParcelPostZoneChart.html">,</a> from which you can print it
out. <span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: normal;"><big><br>
<br>
<br>
</big>
</span><small> </small>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders</span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<a name="MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"></a><b><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial Black";">Money Orders up 5 cents (domestic) in 2019</span></b><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Domestic:<br>
</span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">$1.25 up to $500 </span><o:p style="font-family: Arial;"></o:p><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<span style="font-family: Arial;">$1.70 up to $1000</span><br style="font-family: Arial;">
</div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">International
Money Order <br>
</span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">$12.20
in 2018 -> $13.95 in 2019 for sending up to $750</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">$18.45 in 2018 -> $19.95 in 2019for sending up to $!,500</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Your
overseas maximum is $1,500 (up from $750 on 16April2016). The
Hong Kong and Shanghai
Banking Corp. had a
higher maximum. They transferred billions of drug dollars into
the banking system. There is something charming about this <a href="Rant--MoneyOrders.html">tale of money laundering </a>in today's
corporate world. <br>
</span>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><big>
</big></span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small> </small>
</a>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a></small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Sources of</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> official US Postal Service information: <br>
</span><a href="https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/Notice123.pdf"><span style="font-family: Arial;">https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/Notice123.pdf</span></a><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm">https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm</a><br>
Search terms: site:pe.usps.com Notice 123 Effective January 2019 (or whatever year you seek) </span><br>
<br>
<div style="text-align: center;">
<h1 style="font-family: Arial;"><big><b>END OF
POSTAGE CHARTS <br>
</b></big></h1>
<big>
</big></div>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">(<a href="index.html#top">return to top</a>)<br>
<br>
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><big><br>
<a name="HowThisStarted"></a>
</big><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big>HOW THIS PAGE STARTED, WHAT
HAPPENED TO OTHER ONES?</big> </span> <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><img style="width: 275px; height: 394px;" alt="PostageStamp-NormanRockwell-LetterCarriers1863-1963-275.jpg" title="Norman Rockwell, 1963" src="PostageStamp-NormanRockwell-LetterCarriers1863-1963-275.jpg" align="right"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
I still remember the day I was ready to put out a letter and then come
back in
for coffee. I started this site in 2007 when I couldn't find out
what stamp
to pu</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">t on the envelope. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">"Forever
stamps" weren't around, and
besides, I loved pretty "commemorative" ones. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">The government websites drove me crazy
with a hundred questions
and no information. Reveal the secret!! What stamp goes on
the envelope? </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">I finally found a web page
that told me the postage so I could just mail the envelope and
have my coffee.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> I decided to put up the
simplest postage charts, the ones everyone wants first. </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">My page </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">was
inspired by a similar rate page at a <a href="http://www.lafayettetn.com/post_office.htm">local post office in
Lafayette,</a> Tennessee. Some
guys who work there and one or two of their
buddies put up a web page with the few rates
that most of us need most of the time. By putting up something myself,
I could be less
formal than the government, add some common
sense, such as, "If it isn't machinable, it costs
them more, so we pay a penalty of X cents." I could tease
everyone and have some fun.</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span></span><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Then what?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<br style="font-family: Arial;">
<span style="font-family: Arial;">Soon the
rates were changing two different times a year. The rate
structure was getting complicated. Zones were added for Priority
service that
used to b</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">e the same for the whole country.
Rates to Canada and
Mexico that used to be the same became different. What a headache
for everybody.
Tennessee gave up. That's right -- the
town
post office took down
their rate page and never put it back. I challenge you to find
any place that posts the postage rates of
the USA -- the ones you need,
all
on one page. I also apologize for any errors on my
page,
but at least you can get an overview and the logic -- if there is any
--
behind the rules. Maybe I helped you pick the service you
want before you went to the<a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/"> </a></span><a href="https://postcalc.usps.com/"><span style="font-family: Arial;">https://postcalc.usps.com</span></a><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"> page. It was
worth it if you didn't stand in line as I once did, only to
discover you chose the
wrong
envelope (and had to go home to fix it). </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><st1:country-region style="font-family: Arial;"></st1:country-region>
<st1:country-region style="font-family: Arial;"><st1:place></st1:place></st1:country-region><br style="font-family: Arial;">
<st1:country-region style="font-family: Arial;"><st1:place></st1:place></st1:country-region><span style="font-family: Arial;"><big style="font-weight: bold;"><big> </big></big></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;">I never dreamed
doing a chart of how many stamps to put on an envelope would become as
political as this task has I poked fun at changes that seemed
only silly at first. But it wasn't a game. They weren't
just stupid. Someone wanted to destroy the
postal system. <br>
<br>
They change the rates, I look things up. You see FedEx, UPS, DHL,
Amazon or junk mail execs at the top, you see
people lower down "retiring" early to start a second career at
triple the salary in the shipping industry. The wolves want the hen
house -- destroying it makes sense when you want the business for
yourself. <br>
<br>
OK, so the world has a lot of selfish people in it, what's
new? </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
What's new is telling me you're saving the system
(Revenue! Profitability!) as you slip the dagger in. What's
even better is setting up the rules so the US Postal Service slowly
prices <span style="font-style: italic;">itself</span>
out of the
market -- no one has to put on gloves for the strangulation.
Don't be caught bringing the system down if what you really want is to
pick up the pieces, all the business yourself later -- get the trucks,
get the real estate, get the business for years ever after.
Instead it's
death by complexity, death by letting
them increase rates where they
should go down, death by preventing them legally from earning profits
where they still could have. <br>
<br>
You always know you're dealing with scum when they have to hide what
they're doing. The clever ones learn to lie about it, the rest
hire think tanks to lie for them.<br>
<br>
The last straw was discovering how eBay gave away our
1st
class parcel service to China. eBay pulled together a bi-national
conference -- China Post and the United States Postal Service -- and
now the rest of us have to live by their treaty. Chinese sellers on eBay <a href="ebay.html#100MillionTable">ship about 100 million items into the
country</a> annually.
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">Ask the Inspector General for
the USPS, ask the Chief Postal Inspector, How much postage does the
USPS collect from China
Post for delivery of an <a href="ebay.html#UnderADollarAndFreeShip">item
costing under one dollar</a>?
How can you possibly collect anything? Why do you deliver items whose cost, profit and delivery charge are
less than it would cost an American for <a href="#1stClassIntlPkgsTable">return postage</a>? <br>
<br>
</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Ebay
collects the sellers' fees, we don't collect the postage -- our postal
system is eBay's welfare check.<br>
</span><br>Why did I ever start this page? I still try to have fun, but my postage page is
turning into a murder mystery. Who killed the post office? <br> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><a name="bottom"></a>(<a href="index.html#top">return to top)</a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
</span> <br>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="#FirstClass"><small>
</small>
</a>
<table style="text-align: left; width: 80%; height: 143px;" border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);"> DOMESTIC<br>
</span></span></big> <small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">-</span></small><br>
</small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass"><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small></a><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#FirstClass">First
Class LETTERS</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Flats">FLATS
(manila envelopes)</a> <br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></span></small><small>
<a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">SMALL PKGs
& padded envs</a> </small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">FOREIGN . . . .<br>
</span></span></big></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><small>-</small><br>
<a href="index.html#InternationalAirLtrs">INT'L
Letters</a></span></small><small><br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="#IntlFlats">INT'L
Flats</a> <br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><a href="index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs">INT'L Pkgs</a><br>
</span></small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"></span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#Postcards">Postcards</a> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"> <br>
</span></small></td>
<td style="vertical-align: top;"><small><big><span style="font-family: Futura XBlk BT;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">BIG</span></span></big></small><br>
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#PriorityMail">Domestic
PRIORITY boxes</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<a href="index.html#IntlPriority">International PRIORITY</a>
</span></small><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#ExpressMail">ExpressMail
$$$</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<br>
</span></small><small><a style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" href="index.html#MediaMail">MediaMail
BOOKS</a> </small><small><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
</span>
<br>
</small><small><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></small><small style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="index.html#ParcelPost">Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST</a>)</small><small style="font-family: Arial;">
<br>
</small><small><a href="index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Money Orders </span></a> </small><small>
</small></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table><br>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">P.S. Robin says she'll take me out
to dinner when I get a million hits, and I've been stuck at 800,000-ish for years. Send a friend a <br>real
birthday card -- maybe they'll be clueless how to write back and come
here. Visit old friends now -- if you were compatible then,
you'll enjoy each other now. Write and say you're coming. <br>
</span>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">
<small>
</small>
<a href="../index.html"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">home for
this Website</span></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<p style="text-align: center; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">
<img style="width: 600px; height: 450px;" alt="McLean, VA Post Office" title="Back to reality and 35 lbs of mail - VACATION OVER" src="McLeanVAPostOffice-35lbsMail-600.jpg"> </p>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Vacation
over.<br>
Back to reality and 35 lbs of mail.<br>
Maybe next time ask if they offer a shredder option. </span></div>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
1Jun2016 -- remove eBay China story to separate page, the politics
should either be funny (laughable) or out of here.<br>
30June2016: show on-line ShipNow access for all domestic services.
State CH's discount for Priority Medium FlatRate/<br>
19Aug2016 -- put link to forbidden items in the parcel post section,
not just buried in Domestic Priority section. . <br>
31Jan2017, 1Feb2017; 11Feb 1st class letters heading--thank you, Carolyn<br>
12Feb2017 Media Mail compares Small Parcel prices for 2017; make
ParcelPost rate table for 2017; change Domestic, Int'l Priority
rates, Int'lMoneyOrders. <br>
14Mar2017-state that postcard rate did really stay unchanged. <br>
10Apr2017 - rename the pdf of the postage tables something besides
"SimplePostageCharts.pdf" because all the search engines are sending
people to the crummy pdf<br>
instead of the main page. Should've thought of
that. 100,000 frustrated people wasting their time? <br>
8July2017 - Got some old stamps--add the one about the invention of
postage stamps -- UK 1840, USA copies them 1847. People used to refuse
letters rather than pay-on-delivery,<br>
so postal systems world-wide rushed to a pre-paid
system. IMAGE "PostageStampCentenary1947...."<br>
10July2017 - IMAGE "Postcard-AncientTypefaces" <br>
Jan2018 major update; 8Feb18 #11envs for bounced mail <br>
5Mar2018 - Chris Maginniss caught the 3 oz flats error. 20Mar typo<br>
5Apr2018 </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/">https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/</a></span> <span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;">added to 1st Cl Parcels and domestic Priority <br>
31May2018: add lithium battery page on occasion of EnergyFlux recall event; "Simple Postage - shipping or flying with . . . "<br>
3Feb2019 cleaning up 2019 changes 29April,
finally did the new Parcel Post table, cleaned out 2018 numbers from
Media Mail (book rate). <br>
8Sept2019 Don's fix on no blank hard drives, no blank tapes in Media
Mail. 12Sept2019, top of the page: Pitney Bowes is getting 5 ¢
off.<br>
Friday the Thirteenth (of Sept 2019): bitter rant on destruction of USPS because <a href="#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes">small parcels</a> are now zoned and too complicated to use.<br>
2020,Jan2021 - Family illness; sorry updates were slow. I will
beat the 24Jan2021 changs, I will get the new rates up before they hit.
<br>
</span><br>
</body></html> |
Current USPS Postage Rate Charts - simple tables
[Bottom
& links](#bottom) Autumn color [photos - a walk
thru my neighborhood](..//McLnStorms-Walks/SouthridgeMcMansions2018AutumnWalk/SouthridgeMcMansions.html)
POSTAGE
RATES
An unofficial
site by Jerry Nelson.
First Class letter 58 cents 3Oct2021
## UPDATED ONLY FOR LETTERS AND "FLATS"
getting revised Oct2021
---=---
Inspired
by the friendliest home town [post
office in the USA, Lafayette, TN](http://www.lafayettetn.com/post_office.htm)
(How this page started, [below](#HowThisStarted))
((PDF of rate tables only, finally for 2019 -- <BareBonesPostageTables.pdf> ))
## FOREVER
STAMPS can
be used for anything, but what are they
currently worth?
58¢ - classic forever stamp; good investment, always goes up, went up 3¢ on 3Oct2021.
20¢ - "Additional
Ounce" went down from 21 to 15¢ 27Jan2019, and up to 20¢ on 3Oct2021
78¢ - "Two Ounce"
(the wedding invitation stamp, heart symbol)
88¢ - the
"butterfly" stamps for bad envelopes (square, stiff, metal clasp).
Although the stamp
says "Non-Machinable Surcharge",
it is not the
30¢ surcharge, it is the entire cost.
40¢ - postcard - had been 35¢
since at least 2017
$1.30 foreign letter - up 5¢ in 2020, up 10¢ 3Oct2021
Note:
mail that canât get through a sorting machine
costs more.
A flat,
flexible regular or business-sized envelope is cheaper than a flat,
flexible
manila
envelope that needs bigger sorting machines and *they*
are cheaper than thick, inflexible envelopes of the same size
and weight that are unmachinable and have to go as small parcels.
## Letters 1st Class 58¢+20¢/oz (3Oct2021)
Not over:
1
oz
$0.58
+20¢/oz. Bad
envelope penalty is 30¢
2 ounces $0.78
3 ounces $0.98
3.5
oz $1.18
Heavier?
Go to FLATS (next).
[price history](History-1stClassLtrs.html)
[dates when rates changed](History-DatesOfChange.html)
(helps you search for historic data)
USPS tables, not the rate calculator: [DMM,
the Domestic Mail Manual](http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/notice123.pdf). Go to "Quick Refs"
at end of this long pdf doc; stay in "Retail" chapters, we don't
qualify for cheap corporate rates.
Rigid
object inside? Metal
clasp? Button & closure string?****
Add non-machinable surcharge ("bad envelope penalty").
Square? Goes though
their machines but they canât
tell which way? Add
$0.30
Almost square (less than 30%
height-width difference)? Add $0.30
Too
skinny?
(long
length more than 2.5x short)? Add
$0.30
Really cute little one for that note, under 3 ½â
or 4¼â?
Hide it! You're
illegal. Go home and start over.
Length over 11 ½â? Height
over 6 1/8â? Go to
âFlatsâ (next)
Max size in the stnd envelope series is #14
(5"x11.5"). Size 10 is normal (4.125" x 9.5").
If you want to send someone a
stamped,
self-addressed envelope ("SSAE")
for them to send you back something,
it's nice to get a few Size 11
envelopes
to put the #10 into,
or to send a bounced envelope back when you get your friend's new address.
Thicker
than ¼â?
Go to âFlatsâ.
You're a corporation using metered mail?
Congratulations!
Take off 1¢. Wait! Take off 3¢, we love corporations.
Oct2021: take 5¢ off, we know how poor CEOs like Bezos are.
Pitney Bowes Inc. says
"Save 5¢ on every First
Class letter you send vs. stamps by using your Pitney Bowes
Meter or
SendPro Online to print postage."
Corporations are happy.
Not a corporation, tired?
Sorry. Too bad.
Congress gave away its power of oversight and let the Postal
Service change rates by
itself, every 5 minutes, it seems.
**âFlatsâ (Large 1st
Class
Envelopes)
no change Jan2021**
1
oz
$1.16 Up 16¢ on 3Oct2021
2
ounces
$1.36 Incrementing 20 cents
each additional ounce since 2020
3 ounces $1.56
(3oz? Fold
it & go in a business envelope for 98 cents)
4 ounces $1.76
5 ounces $1.96
6 ounces $2.16
7 ounces $2.36
8 ounces $2.56
9 ounces $2.76
10 ounces $2.96
11 ounces $3.16
12 ounces $3.36
13 ounces $3.56
FLATS:
Over
13
oz?
Consider Priority Mail
flat-rate envelope.
Your envelope is inflexible,
lumpy, not rectangular? Go
to
âPackagesâ.
(No
rigid, corrugated cardboard in flats for preventing creased photos,
sorry.)
If you want to send the photo anyway,
pad the envelope with
stiff paper to protect it, & do [the flex test:](Size+Thickness--Ltr-Flat-Pkg.html#ThicknessTest)
hang half of the short side over the
edge of the table and check that it flexes 1" and back if you press
down
with your finger.
If the short side is 10 inches
long or more, you'd better be able to bend 2".
Length over 15â?
Height
over 12â? Go to
âPackagesâ.
Thicker than 3/4"? Go to
âPackages"
Under 3/4" but lumpy? Klutz! Go to "Packages", pay more.
Still confused? Make sure your letters are white, your flats are
manila envelopes, and [share user stories](Size+Thickness--Ltr-Flat-Pkg.html#Stories) like
these :-(
Exception: when mailing to your friend in prison, white envelopes are
preferred because somehow you can hide particles of dope in
manila.
[Older price history.](History-Flats.html)
-- - - - - - NOT UPDATED BELOW THIS POINT - - - - - -
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**Small Packages / Parcels /
Lumpy envelopes 1st class
27Jan2019 NOW YOU HAVE TO USE ZONES :-(**
These are padded
envelopes over 3/4" thick, rigid
photo mailers, medical samples, small boxes under 1 cubic foot.
If it's not cubic but very rectangular, then girth + length have to be
under 108".
To get the zone, get your two zip codes, go here <https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart>,
and either select "GET ZONE FOR my ZIP CODE PAIR", or print a chart
that shows how all the zones look from where you live (you also [need a chart like that below for parcel post](https://www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/#ParcelPost)).
Crossing the country coast to coast is Zone 8. From the
MidAtlantic to Indiana is Zone 4; to Indiana from the West Coast is
Zone 7.
Wichita, KS is zone 6 or 7 from either coast -- 6 in the middle (San Francisco), 7 up in the corners.
14,15, and 16 ounces were announced as acceptable on
7Jan2016,
but this remains a COMMERCIAL First-Class Package
Service only, not a retail service for normal people 
THE CARTON
SYMBOL: To get rates even if you can't purchase the
postage on-line, enter the USPS site, click on the cartons symbol,
and look
for "First Class & Other Options"
at the bottom, or perhaps a line labeled "Other Services". This
is the "Parcel" (small pkg) rate. <https://postcalc.usps.com/>
Write "1st
Class" and "Pkg" on the package.
Don't buy insurance unless you have receipt or written proof of value.
When they ask you "Is it over 12 inches?" that's the limit that throws
you out of ordinary letters, it has nothing to do with limits on
packages or even manila envelopes ("flats")
2011: No longer available on-line
to the American public. Jan2018: nothing is available online
except Priority.
Pitney-Bowes
can print it for eBay Inc, PayPal can sell it for eBay, but you and I
have to stand in line at the
Post Office.
**UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS**
To
send small 1st Class Packages ON LINE, go to <https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow>
and be prepared to log into your PayPal account.
(Thank you,
JohnD.) You will be coming in as a corporate
customer with an 8% discount (5oz level) over the rest of us peon
American citizens. Not to mention, you can do this online and we can't. Do you use <https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/>
? I heard they didn't do 1st class pkgs at all, but small-volume
individuals could use them, and they had good prices for on-line
Priority. 
WHAT NAME IS THIS SERVICE?
Full service name was "1st Class Airmail Small Pkg", then "First Class Package Service,
Retail."
Avoid "parcel", you'll just confuse
everybody. "Parcel Post" is
abolished.
We send parcels by
post, but not by Parcel Post. Doesn't exist.
Parcel Post
was abolished on 27 January 2013 and became "Standard Post".
Standard Post was abolished on 17 January 2016 and became "Retail
Ground".
Ground shipments 1st Class go
by Air, of course.
((Write "1st Class PKG" on it, and be thankful you didn't have
to go to the post office Name Deciding Meetings that worked all this
out.))
Some
[price history](History-SmallPkgs.html)
<rant>
[Mail is scanned](Rant--ScannedMail.html), parcels might
still be private, you have a parcel, congratulations !!). </rant>
BIGGER
THAN A "SMALL PKG"?
If over
13 oz domestic, try [Priority Mail
flat rate boxes](#PriorityMail)
(any weight if you can fit it in). Once you're over about 15 lbs,
Retail Ground (formerly Parcel Post) will never be cheaper than a
Priority Flat Rate box.
If you're not heavy enough (>15lbs) to make flat rate Priority
a no-brainer, then try "Parcel Post Select" down below (online only,
see top of the [Parcel Post section](#ParcelPost)).
When Parcel Post Select is purchased online, it includes free
tracking.
Length plus girth for Parcel Post Select
is 84 inches max.
Length
plus girth over 108â? Go to the Retail Ground (Parcel
Post) [calculator](https://postcalc.usps.com/).
No even Priority will accept your package.
Length plus girth over 130"
Go to UPS like I told you -- even the Post Office won't
take it.
Call the brown trucks from
UPS; [ups.com](http://www.ups.com/).
You [have
to register](https://www.ups.com/one-to-one/register?sysid=myups&lang=en&langc=US&returnto=%2Fmyups%2Ffinishlogin%3Floc%3Den_US%26amp%3Bauto%3D0%26amp%3Breturnto%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ups.com%2Fuis%2Fcreate%3Floc%3Den_US%26amp%3BWT.svl%3DPNRO_L1%26amp%3Bappid%3DUIS&loc=en_US).
If over 13 oz
and going
overseas,
you want "First-Class Package International Service" good up to 4
lbs. (Other names: "1st Class International Parcel", "[1st Class
Mail International Packages](#1stClassIntlPkgs)".) After that, try Priority Mail
International's flat rate
boxes (limited to 20 lbs to most countries; see International section
next).
Posters rolled up? Maximum
post office lengths: Global Express Guaranteed is only 46",
Express Mail Intl. is 60", domestic Priority Mail is maybe 60", and
sometimes there is a formula of length plus how tight you rolled it up,
so you don't really get the maximum length. (Take 2 inches off
the max length for every inch looser than a 3 inch diameter
roll-up.)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**International
Airmail Ltrs $1.15 > 1.20 Jan2020;
current as of Dec 2020.**
1
ounce any country $1.20
Thank you, dear
P.O., for making the first ounce the same anywhere, and for
giving us Global Forever stamps in 2013 :-)
[Try
this search](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fstore.usps.com+Global+Forever+international&t=ffab&atb=v43-2&ia=web) to buy Global Forever stamps at store.usps.com The "wrong" forever stamps can be combined to get up to the foreign ltr amount.
One
ounce is a
business envelope with 5 sheets of typical Xerox paper, or 1 sheet and
six 4x6" photos. Leave out 1 sheet or 1 photo to be
safe.
"3.5" oz means you can't weigh more, but you
pay for 4 oz.
Limits, all countries: value under $400, size under 6 1/8" x
11 1/2" x 1/4" thick (same envelope limit as domestic).
CANADA
1 oz
$1.20
2 oz
$1.20
3 oz
$1.69 +49¢
3 1/2
$2.18 +49¢
MEXICO
1
oz
$1.20
2
oz
$1.81
We have to bribe them to take the letters, so they cost more.
3
oz
$2.40
(+59-61¢ per added oz)
3 1/2
$3.00
Rest of World 1 oz
$1.20
2
3
Check your country group
below.
31/2
COUNTRY
GROUPS
Group 1 Countries is CANADA (see above).
Group 2 Countries is MEXICO (see above).
Cheaper Countries,
Groups 6-9. Central and South America,
Middle East, Africa,
central Asia,
New Zealand, South Africa, Philippines, Taiwan
1 oz
$1.20
2 oz
$2.08
3 oz $2.95 (+87 or 88¢/next oz)
3 1/2
$3.82
Costly Countries, Groups 3-5.
European Union (France, Italy,
places
with chateaus & good food) ,
Russia, eastern Europe, Turkey; China, Hong
Kong,
South
Korea, Japan,
& Australia
([kangaroos](http://www.nelsonic.org/fototrip/Oz08/index.html#MoreBirds),
[spy satellite stations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap)).
1
oz $1.20
2 oz
$2.24
3 oz $3.28 (+$1.04/next oz)
3 1/2
$4.32
10April2016 5¢ increase revoked,
first ounce back to $1.15. Steady 2017, 2018, 2019.
Price increases across the board Jan2020
[some price
history](History-1stClassLtrsInternational.html)check
other countries: <https://postcalc.usps.com/>
BIGGER
THAN A LETTER? MORE THAN 3.5 OZ? =
**Int'l Flats
- "1st Class Mail International" unchanged 2018, 2019, 2020**
Envelopes up
to 15" x 12", weights up to 4 lb, not lumpy, not totally inflexible.
Weight increments are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 oz then 12 oz, 16 oz, +4oz.
So, if you cross 8 oz (or 12), print some photos on your
camera -- 5 sheets/ounce of good paper, 6
sheets/ounce of ordinary copy paper (minus a sheet for safety).
TABLE BELOW
Canada, roughly $6
first lb, half as much gets you a quarter pound
Mexico roughly
$10 first lb, ditto
ROW roughly
$12 / first lb,
ditto
ONLINE you can get prices but not buy
the postage:
select the large plain
envelope icon at <https://postcalc.usps.com/>
. On next page, click to unhide
"First-Class Int'l Options". Y
FLEXIBLE: International Flat envelope
cannot be rigid. And
thickness? We are going up to 4 pounds here, folks, so the
infamous thickness limits do not apply. Instead, the warning
is,
don't
have more than 1/4" VARIATIONS in thickness.
If you
fail the thickness test, you are a
[First Class International Package](#1stClassIntlPkgs) box
-- prices are 40, 50% higher, even double for the low weights.
OVER ABOUT 2 1/2
POUNDS a Priority Flat Rate
Envelope will be
cheaper. Get the legal
size
9-1/2" x 15" -- same price as stnd size for international.
USE BIG
ENVELOPES FOR "FLATS": Don't try
to mail a small envelope that's over 3.5 oz. even if you pay for
it -- it confuses some postal clerks. The small envelope will
look like a letter, and
"LETTER" service up
to 64 oz was dropped on 12May2008, so now there's only big
"FLATS". Fill the airplanes with big envelopes, that's what they
want.
MAIL SOMETHING TO CHINA?
If it's flat and under 4 oz, the postage alone needs to be $5.10 to
cover the cost (Zone 3 above). Yet at any moment on eBay, the
number of items whose total cost is
$5 or less is between two and three million. If $5.10 is the true
cost to the post office for us to mail a little envelope to China, then
there's no way eBay's China traffic can cover
what it costs our postal system to run their business and deliver their
packages. I
put
[the eBay story](ebay.html) on a separate page. eBay's
total China traffic is about [100
million items a year](ebay.html#100MillionTable). The United States subsidizes the flood
of Chinese stuff into the US. Our government pays for eBay's
profits. eBay ran a conference between our post office and
China's, gave away our first class service to them, and locked us into
it with a treaty. Ebay collects the sellers' fees, we don't
collect the postage.
[Some
prior history](History-Int%27lFlats.html)
HEAVIER THAN 4 LBS?
Priority
international boxes take up to 20 lbs, cost a fortune, and require the
#2976 Customs Form. Sketched in Priority section below.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**1st
Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES - 4 lbs max - most but not all destinations increased in 2019**
Flat rate Priority Int'l is
reasonable, but, if you can't fit their flat rate boxes, then you need
1st Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES.
First-Class Mail Int'l PACKAGES is also called First-Class Pkg INTERNATIONAL SERVICE.
This is the "Letter Post" group which
embraces everything that is not "shipping"; namely, LCs (Letters and
Cards)
joined
with AO ("Air Mail -- Other").
Available online
at discounts up to 10%. To
get the appropriate [USPS calculator](http://postcalc.usps.gov/),
pick the small tan carton symbol, enter a weight under 4 lbs, and a
country overseas. Skip all the Priority choices and click on a
closed menu item labeled "First-Class Int'l Options" (or "Other
Services") to open it.
Hiding the choices most people need is not what a democratic government
should do
to its own people.
Size limit is 1 cubic foot maximum, and no one dimension over 24
inches.
Rolled up poster maximum: width: 36" x 3"diameter. If you roll it
up 1" wider diameter, take 2 inches off your max length.
Customs Form 2976 (the green one) must be filled out, max value is $400. This is sooo tedious.
YELLOW IS YOUR COST TO SEND ONE eBAY
ITEM BACK TO CHINA
WE've
GOT A LIST-OF-COUNTRIES for USING THE CHART ABOVE
Try the [alphabetized list of the most common
countries](USPS-CountriesList.html) with their zones. The [full list](USPS-CountriesList.html#LongList) follows it; you
can use "CONTROL-F for find" to jump-search the list in most
browsers. Finally, I [sorted
the list by zone](USPS-CountriesList.html#ByZoneList) for
those of us who need to get some idea how the shipping world is divided
up (what each zone means).
For the chart above, use the first-class zones on the
right of the list (any version).
Zones 1 and 2
are always Canada and Mexico.
Zone 3 is Australia, China & Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea -- in
Asia, our three big trading partners and closest surveillance
ally.
Zone 4 is Turkey, Russia, and Eastern Europe.
Zone 5 is Europe, east including Kosovo and Serbia.
Zone 6 is what most people think of as Asia, including India and
Pakistan, but not China, Japan, Korea.
Zone 7 is Africa and some island nations (Seychelles east off Africa,
Indian Ocean)
Zone 8 is the Middle East, Arab sheikdoms, Algeria.
Zone 9 is remote
island nations and our neighbors in this hemisphere,
in both nearby Central America and throughout South America.
THE
COST DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN THESE ZONES
ARE IRRATIONAL
AND
TOO SMALL
TO
JUSTIFY THE ZONES EXISTENCE
IN
THE FIRST PLACE.
<rant> MAIL SOMETHING TO CHINA?
For the smallest box (8 oz or less), it recently (2017) took $13.75 to
cover the
cost (Zone 3 above).
Yet at any moment on eBay, the number of
items
listed for sale, whose total cost is
$13.50 or less, is about 4 million.
If $13.75 is the true cost
to the post office, there's no way eBay's China traffic can pay its way
when the value of the item itself is less than Americans pay just for
postage.
So many items are free shipping (85%) that there's no
pot of gold anywhere from which China
Post could compensate the United States.
I put
[the eBay story](ebay.html) on a separate page. eBay's
total China traffic is about [100
million items a year](ebay.html#100MillionTable).
Ebay
collects
the fees, we don't collect the postage.
Don't
tell me here that you
need
nine zones to avoid losses. You have losses because you can't
collect costs from China. You gave away first class parcel
delivery in quiet, binational negotiations driven by eBay for their
profit at the nation's expense. </rant>
Some [price history](History-1stClassPkgsInternational.html) for
First-Class Package International Service.
HEAVIER THAN 4 LBS?
Priority
international flat-rate boxes take up to 20 lbs, cost a fortune, and
require the
#2976 Customs Form . . .as sketched in Priority section below.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**Postcard
35****¢
International $1.15 world, unchanged 2019, 2020**
3 ½
min - 4
¼ max by 5" min - 6"
max, 7 - 16 mills thick. (0.016" is "16
mills". A typical business card is 12 mills)
Within the USA, the smallest permitted letters and postcards are the
same: 3 1/2" x 5".
Minimum thickness 7 mills; cheap glossy ink jet photo paper is 10
mills,
so mail it.
Max thickness 0.016" --
easier to say "16
mills", sound like a machinist who can actually make things.
A typical business card is 12 mills.
Too
big?
Too bad. Use rates for domestic first class
letter.
International postcards same, but must be 5 1/2" - 6" wide vs 5"-6" domestic.
Thickness 7-16 mills (0.007" = 0.016")
Domestic postcards can be square-ish, up to 4 1/4" high by
only 5" wide.
For all other mail, "rectangular" means "Let's have a 30%
high-vs-wide difference."
That's a simple rule, so let's apply it inconsistently for
postcards. There, done! Feel better?
Unchanged 22Jan2017.
Domestic PCs up 1¢ 21Jan2018,
Int'l PCs unchanged at $1.15, same as a letter !!!
[more price history](History-Postcards.html)
Postcards offer no privacy and not much
space.
Pricing International postcards up there with a 1oz International
letter kills them,
kills a cultural
tradition for tourists the world over when they visit and want to
send home more than a selfie.
We need the money our tourists bring, we need cheaper postcards -- 27¢ in 2008.
** **
16 mills
THICKNESS
LIST
3 mills (0.003 inch) - El Cheapo copier paper
4 mills - brightest white copier paper
7 mills + is legal for
postcards
9 mills - sheet of ordinary ("110 lb") card stock (good enough for post
cards)
11 mills - glossy 4x6 photos (Postcards to anywhere can be 3.5 - 4.25 x
5.5 to 6
inches -- just mail your photo.)
BUSINESS CARDS
feels cheap: 8 mills
feels normal: 12 mills
feels impressive: 16 mills (=max mills for postcards)
Aerograms
/ Air
Letter Sheets are
discontinued by the postal service of the United States. . Aerograms were $0.75
to any country, postage printed on the paper,
no stamps. Write whatever you
want, mail it to any address -- done. Simplicity -- the good old
days.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**Domestic PRIORITY Envelope &
BOXES, up in 2017,2018,2019, 2020**
For
local shipments, use straight Priority and drop the flat rate
boxes.
Otherwise, let's
concentrate on flat
rate.
**$7.35** **flat rate envelope**
domestic, any
zone, any weight, 2019
as long
as you can seal the envelope without extra tape,
Add 30¢
for legal length; 65¢ for
padded envelope.
10April2016: no more online discounts for citizens, only
corporate customers.
**$7.90
small flat rate box**domestic,
any zone, any weight,
as long
as you can close the flaps on the seams.
10April2016: no more
online discounts for citizens.
8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8" inside **$14.35
regular/medium flat
rate box**any zone, 70
lb max, up 70¢
in 2019
10April2016: no more online discounts
for citizens.
Two medium-size boxes are
available:
11"
x 8.5" x 5.5" and
13.625" x
11.875" x 3.375"
$18.90
large-size box
to any zone, 70 lb max, up $1.05 in 2019
$18.45 for APO/FPO/Diplomatic up $1.05 in 2019
10April2016: no more online discounts
for citizens.
Two large-size boxes are
available:
12" x 12" x 5.5"
23 11/16" x 11 3/4" x 3"
**UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS**
PRIORITY is the only thing ordinary slobs (American citizens) can buy online.
Corporate customers can buy all domestic services on line, some at nice discounts.
To
send Priority Flat-Rate Boxes with the old ON LINE DISCOUNT,
try this
unpublicized Web
address): <https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow>
(Thank you, JohnD.)
You
must be a registered PayPal user (initially owned by eBay). This
page normally comes up only if you sold something on eBay and must ship
it, so you would normally be signed in already. If the site sends you
to a bad login page or can't get back to shipping after login, just log
into PayPal on another browser tab, then go back to the ShipNow tab. Browser cookies will keep you logged in, and all will
run smoothly.
Do you use <https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/> ? I've heard "low volume" individuals can use it, and the rates are good for Priority.
Meanwhile, if it's not a
flat rate
shipment,
you can use your own box.
If it's virtually a local shipment, don't use flat-rate.
If it's local, Parcel Post ("Retail Ground") won't take it anyway, so
you have
to use Priority, and, as we just said, unzoned is cheaper
if the distance is local.
If it's light (a fluffy sweater for Mommy), don't use flat rate -- they
push up what those boxes cost because people usually ship heavy tools
and supplies, not fluffy sweaters for Mommy.
70 lbs is the limit throughout the USPS, period: Retail Ground,
Media Rate,
Priority, anything.
If you don't have a written receipt, don't buy insurance.
Remember, you can't mail
everything, there are [no-no's](USPS-ForbiddenItems.html).
For APO/FPO/Diplomatic mail,
go online because a lot of
destinations don't have service for
bigger sizes.
You need to do Form2976A (weight, value, all
the addresses).
Presents can't be alcoholic drinks or tobacco or fresh fruits or
veg, or
perfume ("fragrances" in alcohol).
Lithium batteries are forbidden
while the airline industry reacts to spontaneous combustion of
early-tech batteries that have disappeared.
Be patient, battery issues are not the Post
Office's fault.
The flat-rate-size Priority
boxes may be used internationally
(20 lb maximum;
4 lbs for the small
one).
See Priority Mail International below. Cheer up, you're not
mailing the [Hope Diamond](HopeDiamond.html).
TO GET FREE PRIORITY BOXES:
[small
boxes](https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_SMALL_FRB&categoryId=international-shipping)
[medium
boxes](https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_O_FRB2&categoryId=international-shipping) Why does this domestic box link say "International
shipping"? Oh well, it works for now . . .
https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P\_O\_FRB2&categoryId=international-shipping
[large
boxes](https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_LARGE_FRB&categoryId=free-shipping-supplies)
https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P\_LARGE\_FRB&categoryId=free-shipping-supplies
If these links stop working, search on site:store.usps.com
Priority Mail Flat Rate Boxes
Look for a hit from store.usps.com.
Most search engines will do a "site search" like that, and they search
better than any search facility on the site itself. Who knows
why, just try it.
SIZE LIMITS --
Escape from a flat rate box.
Internationally, NON-FLAT-RATE
PRIORITY costs about as much as the large box, and gives you sizes up
to 79" long and length plus girth of 108 inches. Forget
Express Mail, not only more costly, but more limited in size: 42" long
and length plus girth of 79
inches (2013). Sometimes there are country-specific
surprises.
Over
108", Priority stops (airplanes get crowded fast)
and Retail Ground (formerly Parcel Post) is all you have left.
Stay under the 70 lb limit, but your particular weight
becomes irrelevant when your box becomes large. That's because,
after 108"
length+girth, you pay the "Oversize Penalty Price" until
130"
for length + girth brings your expulsion from the Postal Service
altogether. Remember that girth is width + height +
width + height. [Check prices online](https://postcalc.usps.com).
ABOUT THAT 70 LB WEIGHT
LIMIT: the maximum box weight, any size,
domestic shipment, is 70 lbs.
Pouring
the small box full of liquid lead gets you 29 lbs, so I'd say, for
small boxes, 70 lbs shows an intelligence limit. Maybe ship the
small box to Jupiter, whose gravity will bring little box of lead up to
68 1/2 lbs.
You
can fill any box with a solid block of aluminum and they'll
ship
it. (On the large box, leave 1/2" of free space on top.)
The medium-sized boxes can be about half-full of solid
iron. The
large box needs to be under 1/3 full of iron to pass -- solid
iron
all the way up to the top of the box would be 225 lbs, lead
would
be 325 lbs., and don't even think of gold.
I have a friend who could handle the 552 lb avoirdupois weight if
you sent him a large priority box filled with it, but I
don't have the $8 million to buy it. (552.5 lbs Au, 14.583 Troy
oz per
lb
Av. With gold at $1000/Troy oz Troy, that's $8M. 2018, up
to $1300 -- I
waste my time
with these stupid calculations while
everyone else makes money trading on the precious metals market.
Insurance:
Pre-May 12, 2008:
insurance up to $500
was available on-line;
up to $5,000 if you presented the
package to a Post Office clerk. $5,000 is still the limit,
2016.
$50 worth of insurance is free. Declare even a dollar more, and
you pay a $3..35 insurance fee.
For some easy-to-steal-and-sell
items, you may be forced to
get
insurance when you fill out the customs form.
Priority âDimensional
Pricingâ -- beyond flat rate:
Packages larger than 1 cubic foot
traveling far (Zones
5 through 8) are priced by size because
such trips use air transportation.
Or rather, you use the same old tables that price everything
by
weight, but you must use an imaginary weight calculated from your
package size as 8.9 lbs
per cubic foot.
These "balloon rate" mythical weights work out to be LxWxH
in inches
divided by 194 (No idea. I just work here).
ONLINE DISCOUNT
HISTORY:
10April2016: no more online
discounts for citizens, only corporate customers.
018: Dear USPS: Why no online
discount for Click-N-Ship? Putting clerks on a service counter
costs you money.
Answer
#1: Amazon and UPS (the brown trucks) served on the USPS Board of Governors. They didn't care when online
discounts were killed.
Answer #2: A [Congressional
bill](https://about.usps.com/postal-act-2006/postal-accountability-and-enhancement-act.pdf) made it hard to increase letter rates
(only the post office carries letters, they could have made money on
their
monopoly)
and easier to increase package rates. Presto, the USPS
prices itself out of the market. Get ready to paint 227,000
trucks brown.
Answer #3: Online purchases of all domestic services were killed, except for PRIORITY, where online discounts were canceled because
revenues were too successful. On-line
revenues nearly doubled between 2008 and 2014 for the USPS. Package
traffic soared as eCommerce exploded. Here was an Internet effect that
actually benefited the USPS (unlike email, online bill payment, and
the collapse of subscriptions to printed news source). The myth that
the USPS can't make money and the government can never learn how to run
a business had to be supported. Therefore, the income was taken away.
Get ready to paint 227,000 trucks brown.
PRICE HISTORY
4April2016: online mailing labels no longer sold at [https://postcalc.usps.com](https://postcalc.usps.com/);
you will be transferred to Click-N-Ship where you
must set up an account.
Log in at [cns.usps.com](https://cns.usps.com/)
4April2016: No more online discounts for the public.
Try a corporation like stamps.com or use <https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow>
22Jan2017: prices up, still no online discount.
[more price
history](History-PriorityFlatRateDomestic.html)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**INTERNATIONAL Priority Mail**
When it's bigger than a flat (they call manila
envelopes "flats"), try these flat rate boxes (20 lbs max) or "1st-Class
Package International Service" (4 lbs max).
Flat rate box sizes same as all other Priority boxes.
1. CANADA - FLAT RATE ENVELOPE (stnd or
legal) & SMALL BOX (4lbs
max -- could be $50 w/o flat rate)
envelope
$25.85
.
small box
$26.85
2. CANADA - MEDIUM FLAT RATE BOX (20 lbs
max --
could be $101 if you didn't have flat rate)
$49.60
3. CANADA - LARGE FLAT RATE BOX (20 lbs
max --
could be $101 if you didn't have flat rate)
$64.50
27 January 2019
The non-flat rate price table for Canada 2019 is here: <https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c330>
Normally, in the 1,2,3,4, etc., country list, "1"
is Canada and "2" is Mexico, but we can't have "1" because Canada
herself gets a whole set of rate zones.
The rates depend on where YOU live, not on where your pkg is going. West Coast USA costs more. The flat rates above are easier.
TO USE THE TABLE ABOVE, GO FOR ZONE "B" in
the COUNTRIES LISTS
We have an [alphabetized list of the most common countries](USPS-CountriesList.html) with
their zones.
On the country list, the
so-called zone "B" column
gives you the correct 2,3,4,5,6,7, or 8 column to use in the table
above.
The [full list](USPS-CountriesList.html#LongList) follows the "most commons". Also, you can use "CONTROL-F for find" to search the list in most
browsers. Finally, I [sorted
the list by first class zone](USPS-CountriesList.html#ByZoneList).
The missing column 1 is Canada.
Column 2 is Latin America: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador,
Mexico. But some countries are in the "doghouse" column (8):
Costa Rica, El Salvador.
Column 3: China, Indonesia, Japan, S. Korea
Column 4: EU countries (European Union), but not Hungary (8, doghouse)
Column 5: India, Norway . . . naturally, look what they have in common.
Column 6: New Zealand, Pakistan
Column 7: Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria
Column 8, doghouse: Hungary, Greece, Algeria, Russia, South Africa, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Uganda, Cost Rica, El Salvador.
[some price
history](History-PriorityFlatRateInternational.html)
METRIC SYSTEM: 66 LBS
MAX IN MANY COUNTRIES
Although 20 lbs is the official limit, some countries will go up to 66
lbs if
you go outside the flat rate system and pay $200, even $300 to
some places.
Starting in 2014, nearly every country in the
world refused to carry the United States' Postal Service maximum
of 70 lbs, because nearly every country in the world went metric
and 30kg is the limit everywhere, and 30 kg is 66 lbs not 70.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**Domestic Express
Mail -- Does everybody agree I can drop this page** **because the prices are ridiculous?**
2019: Domestic express is only a "commercial" service -- probably not sold online at all. Let me know.
$22.80 for a flat rate envelope, flat rate boxes dropped, nobody used
them; $372 to impress someone with a 70
lb carton shipped across the country.
To
find the the free stuff page, search on site:store.usps.com
$0.00 express mail box like this: [sample
search.](https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Astore.usps.com++%240.00+express+mail+box)
[some price history](History-ExpressMail.html)
[https://postcalc.usps.com](https://postcalc.usps.com/)
**Media
Mail Rates -- BOOKS**
Flat rate,
no zones so it does not get cheaper locally, but even locally it is
still cheapest per pound if you qualify.
OK
for: books, sheet music, movies and music on CDs, DVDs,
educational maps & charts if there's not a lot of text.
Because advertising
is forbidden, you must take all magazines out of
your box. The books themselves may add only incidental
announcements of other books -- as old-fashioned publishers so often
did on the otherwise blank end-pages.
No
video games (they're media, yes; but educational, no). No blank hard
drives, no blank tapes (not a movie, not music, just merchandise).
At the Post
Office, be
prepared to open and reseal the box. So, if
you
want to support book bindings, wrap the books
tight in "stretch (plastic) wrap" not brown paper, because you can see
through it, and you can even unwind it and kind of wind it back
on. Liquor store
cartons are stronger than supermarket cartons, but you have to
obliterate anything that makes it look like you're shipping alcohol.
(Use up your old aerosol spray cans, or buy a new one in Pro Shipper
tan.)
Yes, it goes to 70 lbs,
see [https://postcalc.usps.com](https://postcalc.usps.com/) If you don't qualify,
regular "Retail Ground" (formerly Parcel Post) is double to
triple
the cost, depending on zone.
After 21Jan2018: Domestic
Rates 27Jan2019:
1st lb increases $2.66 to $2.75, increment rises from 51 to 52¢ /lb, 70
lbs is $38.63
1 pound: $2.75
One CD/DVD
in a padded env is
$3.66 to $4.06 (4oz; it became zoned in 2019) as a small parcel (1st class service, 13 oz max) .
Two CDs
in an env is a $4.39-$4.81 parcel (7oz; it became zoned in 2019), so media mail is cheaper both times.
Add 52¢/lb until the end at 70 lb for $38.63
Up to 5 pounds: $ 4.70 in 2018 -> $4.83 in 2019
Up to 20 pounds: $12.35 -> $12.63
Up to 40 lbs $22.55 -> $23.03
70 lbs max
$37.85 -> $38.63
**UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS**
To get Media Mail shipping labels on-line, try this
unpublicized Web
address): <https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow>
(Thank you, JohnD.)
You
must be a registered PayPal user. You
must enter a PayPal user name and password. I suggest
logging in on the normal paypal.com home page and \*\*then\*\* going to the
paypal.com/ShipNow page (which
assumes you are completing a sale and are already logged in).
Specify
USPS, not UPS. After entering an address (no address book
facility, sorry) you want to get to a page that asks you to specify a
SERVICE TYPE. There you can select MEDIA MAIL.
April2016: still not available online from the post office.
[some
price history](History-MediaMail.html)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
## BEGIN PARCEL
POST (this is horrible)
## For DIYers (Do It Yourselfers), here are the [parcel post rate charts](ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html) with
zones. So now you need a zone number. A chart to give
you the zone # from your own ZipCode [can be
printed here](https://postcalc.usps.com/Zonecharts/) -- as illustrated below. To
look up Retail Ground costs online, the calculator page is [https://postcalc.usps.com](https://postcalc.usps.com/)
But you can only buy Priority shipping labels online -- we're talking
Parcel Post service here (cheaper). If the USPS doesn't sell
Parcel Post shipping labels online, where can you turn?
**UNPUBLICIZED
ON-LINE ACCESS**
To
send Retail Ground (parcel post) pkgs ON LINE, try this unpublicized URL
("Universal
Resource Locater" or Web
address): <https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow>
(Thank you, JohnD.) As a corporate customer, you will enjoy lower
rates ("Parcel Select") not available to American citizens ("Retail
Ground"). The rest of you please line up at the counter.
(Here's the in-line-at-the-counter vs on-line [rate chart comparison](ParcelPostZoneChartQCompareZone8.html) for a coast-to-coast box.)
Have your carton dimensions, address & weight handy. You
must be a registered PayPal user (initially owned by eBay, Inc). This
page normally comes up only if you sold something on eBay and must ship
it, so you would normally be signed in already. If the site sends
you
to a bad login page or you can't get back to your carton shipment after
login, just log
into PayPal on another browser tab,
then go back to your ShipNow tab. You won't
be stuck anymore. Browser cookies will keep you logged in, and
you can get your shipping label and pay for it. We're all
praying for you.
<rant>THE
COUNTRY & ITS MAIL STREAM WOULD BE MORE SECURE IF WE COULD
PRINT USPS SHIPPING LABELS online. We would be more secure
because your identity and your shipping data are better known when you
are online, longer
remembered and easier to search and retrieve, compared to just pushing
a box across the
counter (as retail customers are supposed to do). And
the USPS could compete better with corporate UPS and its little brown
trucks. Why are you holding us back? Doing this page for
many years has shown me a postal service being
mis-managed on purpose to make it unprofitable and to justify taking it
over. </rant>
I hope you're done and just mailed someone a present. Everything below is just details.
**PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") -
SHIPPING RESTRICTIONS**
ANY 1-PAGE LOOK AT GOVERNMENT
REGULATIONS THAT RESTRICT MAIL SERVICE [IS GOING TO BE INCOMPLETE](USPS-ForbiddenItemsParcelPostSecn.html) <- complete restricted materials sec'n 
* never: alcoholic
beverages (the Internal Revenue Service wants to catch all the taxes)
* never:
ammunition
* never:
explosives, even fireworks
* never:
any invitation/advertising to use money to participate in a lottery or
raffle
+ Clubs/non-profits
doing a charity raffle can say something like this: check box: "
Please enter my name in the drawing. I do not wish to make a donation
at this time." If you're running the raffle, you can even enclose
the little raffle ticket to
keep in case they win.
* lots
of rules for firearms (the ATF
-- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives in the Dept. of Justice -- wants to control this)
* never
for most of us: switchblade knife
-- Armed Forces, National Guard, state and municipal procurement
officers, they all can get their switchblades in the mail; the rest of
us will just have to meet our buddies in a bar or have a barbecue and
trade our best ones.
* lots
of rules for aerosols, flammables,
liquids of any kind, even a urine specimen. My quart
bottles of epoxy always come with extra tape to hold the cap on
tight.
* powerful
magnets
able to deviate a compass needle at 7 feet because their
magnetic flux was not short-circuited away by putting iron
"keepers" on them (the Department of Transportation looks bad when
planes fall out of the sky--it's their rule).
* Lithium batteries.
You can avoid special labeling with 7 or fewer non-rechargeable
"lithium metal" cells of under 20Wh each (roughly C-cell or smaller) or
a single rechargeable "lithium ion" (aka lithium polymer) battery (e.g,
notebook battery) under 100Wh. Otherwise, here's [what I've learned about batteries so far](Simple%20Postage%20-%20shipping%20or%20flying%20with%20lithium%20batteries.html), glad to get better information from you.
* Replicas:
Post Office and [law
enforcement take weapons replicas very seriously](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/us/video-shows-cleveland-officer-shot-tamir-rice-2-seconds-after-pulling-up-next-to-him.html?_r=0). A fake
replica of a hand grenade has
to be registered mail, so it can't be Parcel Post (aka "Retail
Ground"). You have to write "Replica Explosive" in letters at
least 1/4" high on the box. Yes, it's legal, but get it boxed and
keep it in the box. If you want to shut down your own post office and the rest of your day, just
walk in with a hand grenade and tell everyone it's just a replica.
* Contraceptives.
If she asked for help getting her birth control pills, get a letter
proving "solicitation" before you get a criminal record. "Unsolicited
samples of an article or thing designed, adapted, or intended for
preventing conception is permitted in the mail only when sent to a
manufacturer or a dealer of such an article or things, to a licensed
physician or surgeon, or to a nurse, pharmacist, druggist, hospital, or
clinic (39 USC 3001; 18 USC 1461)." --> 18USC1461? The post office regulations are citing the wrong law of the land. This citation
by the US Postal Service of United States Code1461 in [their own postal regulations](https://pe.usps.com/Archive/HTML/DMMArchive20030810/C024.htm)
(it's at the bottom when talking about "preventing conception")
suggests some people
at the USPS don't see any difference between contraception and
abortion. 1461 is about abortion, not contraception. I can't believe lawyers inscribing the law of the land into the federal statute books use language like this:
BOTTOM LINE ABOUT ANYTHING: If in doubt, go to the Post
Office. I would just see if
they'll take whatever it is and not ask questions because they're not
supposed to answer: "Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on
the legality of any shipment of firearms." I'm quoting official regulations here: [433 Legal
Opinions on Mailing Firearms](http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_010.htm)
PARCEL POST OVERVIEW
RETAIL
GROUND (PARCEL POST) is the cheapest postal service,
and
the one that takes very large, very heavy boxes. Write
"USPS Retail Ground"
on the box if using stamps instead of a mailing label. Parcel Post will
not take local traffic to Zones 1 to 4. (A ZipCode-to-Zone chart
is
below, and you can easily make one centered on the place where you
live.) Try regular (not flat rate) Priority for just local or
lightweight stuff.
PRIORITY, PARCEL POST, or BROWN TRUCKS? I
use flat rate
Priority if it fits the box, parcel post (Retail Ground) for
small stuff that doesn't fit, and the brown UPS trucks for heavy boxes
(over 5 lbs or
so). <http://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US&WT.svl=PriNav>
Don't buy insurance if you don't have the receipt. [More precautions here](InsuranceWarning.html).
Please pack nicely. DON'T JUST DROP YOUR ITEM INTO THE CARTON &
THEN FILL IT.
Place
padding into the bottom of the box first, THEN add the
shipment. You want the item floating
away from the walls, not crashing into them when you shake the
box.
.
**THE BIG BOX PENALTIES** **in PARCEL POST
("Retail Ground") SERVICE**
AVOIDING THE TWO PITFALLS OF RETAIL GROUND (Parcel Post)
Retail
Ground (Parcel Post) can be cheaper than UPS if you
avoid two
pitfalls.
1. AVOIDING THE RETAIL GROUND
BALLOON RATE
PITFALL AT 84 INCHES
When
you are under 20 lbs (as most gifts and eBay shipments are), then
keep the box length plus girth under 84"or you will pay for 20 lbs (up
to $62.25
across the country, 2019) regardless of actual
weight. Think of a
balloon
rate box as a flat rate box at the 20 lb rate. If you're stuck
with the size, enjoy the weight -- put something else in.
(Ordinary,
non-flat-rate Priority Mail has the same 20lb/84 inches penalty in the
more local zones 1-4.)
2. AVOIDING THE PARCEL POST
OVERSIZE PITFALL AT 108 - 130 INCHES
If your length + girth goes over 108 inches, you pay an oversize
penalty. Going across country with 70 lbs., your oversize
cost is $196.61 (2019; $183.75 in 2018; $132.20
in 2014), when a smaller box would have been "only" $136.17 (in 2019; $130.51.$105.83 in 2014).
Once you're penalized with this "dimensional weight" charge, you can
pack
your shipment up in as large a carton as you want (up to the maximax of
length+girth of130 inches) and throw in some extra items . . . the price isn't
going to change with either your weight (up to 70 lbs) or your size (up
to 130 inches length + girth).
Over 130", you are
expelled from the Postal System.
Go directly to UPS or FedEx Freight, do not pass Go, do not
pay any more penalties.
130" and 70 lbs are the limits no USPS service can exceed.
To get parcel post in the USPS rate calculator, choose "package"
or
"large package". <https://postcalc.usps.com>
Measure and weigh the carton first, get your two Zip codes.
[some price history](History-StandardPost.html)
GETTING YOUR OWN 1.ZONE
AND 2.RATE TABLES
for PARCEL POST
Still trying to run a small business? Need to get six boxes
out this morning without going online or to the post office?
You need two
charts, your own stamps, and you'll have to present your packages in
person at the Post Office counter,
unless you use the corporate privileges that eBay and PayPal have
gotten for their customers, the ones [I told you
about above](#ParcelPost) ("unpublicized").
If your
business grows, you will yearn for these lower prices on the business
calculator page: <https://dbcalc.usps.com/>
but you have to bring everything to a BMEU, Business Mail Entry Unit.
See if there's a BMEU near you: <https://ribbs.usps.gov/locators/find-bme.cfm>
If you figure out how to qualify, write me jerry\_postage@nelsonic.org so I can share it.
Meanwhile, for the retail-level DIY
route:
1. You need to go from
destination Zip code to a postal zone, and then
2. You need a chart of rates per
pound (for all those postal zones).
**PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") -- Do It Yourself
w/ZONES FROM ZIP CODES**
A personalized chart from my town McLean to ZIP XXXxx
It's easy to get
your own chart at [https://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts/](https://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts)
.or same thing 2019: <https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart>
These
charts work for Priority boxes that are not flat
rate,
and for Parcel Post. Both have big-box
penalties.
Parcel
Post and non-flatrate-Priority have the same 20lb/84inch balloon box problem, but only for
local-ish Priority boxes (Zones 1-4).
Parcel Post big boxes have the oversize dimensional weight penalty at 108".
Priority starts its oversize dimensional
weight penalty at 60", but only for distant Priority boxes
(Zones 5-8).
Go
to the zone chart, then the rate table, and you're done? Not so
fast.
THE SPECIAL CASE OF PARCEL POST ZONES 1
THROUGH 4
Parcel
post zones 1-4 do not exist.
You have to use Priority. (Try the non-flat-rate kind of
Priority; it is probably cheaper for local, zone 1-4 shipments).
So why do we have 1-4 zones if we
can't use them? Wrong!!
They are used, just not by you. Ground shipment is required for
all stuff that knocks airplanes out of the sky, so we keep zones 1 thru
4 alive for people forced into ground transportation. If it weren't for dangerous
materials shippers, we'd never send our trucks out on such short routes. .
If we don't use zones 1-4, why not
abolish them? Clarity of vision is a key part of the
leadership we do not have. Just mail your silly box.
Above: a chart
from [https://postcalc.usps.com/Zonecharts/](http://postcalc.usps.gov/Zonecharts/)
**PARCEL POST ("Retail Ground") - Do It Yourself w/THE PRICE CHART (RATE
TABLE)**
[THE PARCEL POST RATE TABLE](ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html) - 2019 PRICES BY ZONES
You've got the zone number. Now you need a table of charges to
that zone for all the weights up to 70 lb max.
Because of its large size, the parcel post rate chart is on [a page](ParcelPostZoneChart.html) [all by itself](ParcelPostZoneChartPrices.html)[,](ParcelPostZoneChart.html) from which you can print it
out.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
**Money Orders up 5 cents (domestic) in 2019**
Domestic:
$1.25 up to $500
$1.70 up to $1000
International
Money Order
$12.20
in 2018 -> $13.95 in 2019 for sending up to $750
$18.45 in 2018 -> $19.95 in 2019for sending up to $!,500
Your
overseas maximum is $1,500 (up from $750 on 16April2016). The
Hong Kong and Shanghai
Banking Corp. had a
higher maximum. They transferred billions of drug dollars into
the banking system. There is something charming about this [tale of money laundering](Rant--MoneyOrders.html) in today's
corporate world.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
Sources of official US Postal Service information:
<https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/Notice123.pdf>
<https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm>
Search terms: site:pe.usps.com Notice 123 Effective January 2019 (or whatever year you seek)
# **END OF
POSTAGE CHARTS**
([return to top](index.html#top))
HOW THIS PAGE STARTED, WHAT
HAPPENED TO OTHER ONES?
I still remember the day I was ready to put out a letter and then come
back in
for coffee. I started this site in 2007 when I couldn't find out
what stamp
to put on the envelope. "Forever
stamps" weren't around, and
besides, I loved pretty "commemorative" ones. The government websites drove me crazy
with a hundred questions
and no information. Reveal the secret!! What stamp goes on
the envelope?
I finally found a web page
that told me the postage so I could just mail the envelope and
have my coffee.
I decided to put up the
simplest postage charts, the ones everyone wants first. My page was
inspired by a similar rate page at a [local post office in
Lafayette,](http://www.lafayettetn.com/post_office.htm) Tennessee. Some
guys who work there and one or two of their
buddies put up a web page with the few rates
that most of us need most of the time. By putting up something myself,
I could be less
formal than the government, add some common
sense, such as, "If it isn't machinable, it costs
them more, so we pay a penalty of X cents." I could tease
everyone and have some fun.
Then what?
Soon the
rates were changing two different times a year. The rate
structure was getting complicated. Zones were added for Priority
service that
used to be the same for the whole country.
Rates to Canada and
Mexico that used to be the same became different. What a headache
for everybody.
Tennessee gave up. That's right -- the
town
post office took down
their rate page and never put it back. I challenge you to find
any place that posts the postage rates of
the USA -- the ones you need,
all
on one page. I also apologize for any errors on my
page,
but at least you can get an overview and the logic -- if there is any
--
behind the rules. Maybe I helped you pick the service you
want before you went to the[https://postcalc.usps.com](https://postcalc.usps.com/) page. It was
worth it if you didn't stand in line as I once did, only to
discover you chose the
wrong
envelope (and had to go home to fix it).
I never dreamed
doing a chart of how many stamps to put on an envelope would become as
political as this task has I poked fun at changes that seemed
only silly at first. But it wasn't a game. They weren't
just stupid. Someone wanted to destroy the
postal system.
They change the rates, I look things up. You see FedEx, UPS, DHL,
Amazon or junk mail execs at the top, you see
people lower down "retiring" early to start a second career at
triple the salary in the shipping industry. The wolves want the hen
house -- destroying it makes sense when you want the business for
yourself.
OK, so the world has a lot of selfish people in it, what's
new?
What's new is telling me you're saving the system
(Revenue! Profitability!) as you slip the dagger in. What's
even better is setting up the rules so the US Postal Service slowly
prices itself
out of the
market -- no one has to put on gloves for the strangulation.
Don't be caught bringing the system down if what you really want is to
pick up the pieces, all the business yourself later -- get the trucks,
get the real estate, get the business for years ever after.
Instead it's
death by complexity, death by letting
them increase rates where they
should go down, death by preventing them legally from earning profits
where they still could have.
You always know you're dealing with scum when they have to hide what
they're doing. The clever ones learn to lie about it, the rest
hire think tanks to lie for them.
The last straw was discovering how eBay gave away our
1st
class parcel service to China. eBay pulled together a bi-national
conference -- China Post and the United States Postal Service -- and
now the rest of us have to live by their treaty. Chinese sellers on eBay [ship about 100 million items into the
country](ebay.html#100MillionTable) annually.
Ask the Inspector General for
the USPS, ask the Chief Postal Inspector, How much postage does the
USPS collect from China
Post for delivery of an [item
costing under one dollar](ebay.html#UnderADollarAndFreeShip)?
How can you possibly collect anything? Why do you deliver items whose cost, profit and delivery charge are
less than it would cost an American for [return postage](#1stClassIntlPkgsTable)?
Ebay
collects the sellers' fees, we don't collect the postage -- our postal
system is eBay's welfare check.
Why did I ever start this page? I still try to have fun, but my postage page is
turning into a murder mystery. Who killed the post office?
([return to top)](index.html#top)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| DOMESTIC
-
[First
Class LETTERS](index.html#FirstClass)
[FLATS
(manila envelopes)](index.html#Flats)
[SMALL PKGs
& padded envs](index.html#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) | FOREIGN . . . .
-
[INT'L
Letters](index.html#InternationalAirLtrs)
[INT'L
Flats](#IntlFlats)
[INT'L Pkgs](index.html#1stClassIntlPkgs)
[Postcards](index.html#Postcards)
| BIG
[Domestic
PRIORITY boxes](index.html#PriorityMail)
[International PRIORITY](index.html#IntlPriority)
[ExpressMail
$$$](index.html#ExpressMail)
[MediaMail
BOOKS](index.html#MediaMail)
[Stnd Post
(formerly PARCEL POST](index.html#ParcelPost))
[Money Orders](index.html#MoneyOrders-DeliveryConfirmation)
|
P.S. Robin says she'll take me out
to dinner when I get a million hits, and I've been stuck at 800,000-ish for years. Send a friend a
real
birthday card -- maybe they'll be clueless how to write back and come
here. Visit old friends now -- if you were compatible then,
you'll enjoy each other now. Write and say you're coming.
[home for
this Website](../index.html)
Vacation
over.
Back to reality and 35 lbs of mail.
Maybe next time ask if they offer a shredder option.
1Jun2016 -- remove eBay China story to separate page, the politics
should either be funny (laughable) or out of here.
30June2016: show on-line ShipNow access for all domestic services.
State CH's discount for Priority Medium FlatRate/
19Aug2016 -- put link to forbidden items in the parcel post section,
not just buried in Domestic Priority section. .
31Jan2017, 1Feb2017; 11Feb 1st class letters heading--thank you, Carolyn
12Feb2017 Media Mail compares Small Parcel prices for 2017; make
ParcelPost rate table for 2017; change Domestic, Int'l Priority
rates, Int'lMoneyOrders.
14Mar2017-state that postcard rate did really stay unchanged.
10Apr2017 - rename the pdf of the postage tables something besides
"SimplePostageCharts.pdf" because all the search engines are sending
people to the crummy pdf
instead of the main page. Should've thought of
that. 100,000 frustrated people wasting their time?
8July2017 - Got some old stamps--add the one about the invention of
postage stamps -- UK 1840, USA copies them 1847. People used to refuse
letters rather than pay-on-delivery,
so postal systems world-wide rushed to a pre-paid
system. IMAGE "PostageStampCentenary1947...."
10July2017 - IMAGE "Postcard-AncientTypefaces"
Jan2018 major update; 8Feb18 #11envs for bounced mail
5Mar2018 - Chris Maginniss caught the 3 oz flats error. 20Mar typo
5Apr2018 <https://goshippo.com/features/merchants/> added to 1st Cl Parcels and domestic Priority
31May2018: add lithium battery page on occasion of EnergyFlux recall event; "Simple Postage - shipping or flying with . . . "
3Feb2019 cleaning up 2019 changes 29April,
finally did the new Parcel Post table, cleaned out 2018 numbers from
Media Mail (book rate).
8Sept2019 Don's fix on no blank hard drives, no blank tapes in Media
Mail. 12Sept2019, top of the page: Pitney Bowes is getting 5 ¢
off.
Friday the Thirteenth (of Sept 2019): bitter rant on destruction of USPS because [small parcels](#SmallPackagesPaddedEnvelpes) are now zoned and too complicated to use.
2020,Jan2021 - Family illness; sorry updates were slow. I will
beat the 24Jan2021 changs, I will get the new rates up before they hit.
| https://www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/ |
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<h3 align="left">Welcome to the <a href="define.shtml">Obsolete</a> Computer Museum!</h3>
<hr noshade=""/>
<h4>Lobby:</h4>
<ul>
<li><a href="news.shtml">Latest News</a> - Running since 1995!</li>
<li>
Out with the obsolete, in comes new. Check out all the new computers and gadgets to go with them reviewed on
<a style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; text-underline: single" href="http://savantmag.com">
savantmag.com</a>.
</li>
<li>For the latest product reviews.</li>
<li>
<a href="/copper/">Tom Copper Exhibit</a> - Special exhibit that makes my collection look like a sad joke! He also
has his own <a href="http://members.xoom.com/Tom_Copper/tvcu.htm">Web pages</a>.
</li>
<li><a href="https://piday.co">Pi Day Celebrations</a> - one thing that never goes obsolute is the number Pi!</li>
<li>
If you're looking to build the
<b>
<a style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; text-underline: single" href="https://elitegamingcomputers.com/top-gaming-computers/" rel="nofollow">best gaming PC</a></b>
possible, check out Elite Gaming Computers.
</li>
<li>
<a href="/faq/ocm_faq.html">Obsolete Computer Museum FAQ</a> - Everything you wanted to know about this Museum,
and
then some. If your question isn't answered here, you shouldn't be asking it.
</li>
<li>
<a href="/helpline/">Obsolete Computer Helpline</a> - Go here for answers to your questions about old computers.
</li>
<li><a href="smart.shtml">Very, very smart people!</a> - I just couldn't keep up with bad links. Sorry.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.illusions.org">illusions.org</a> - A collection of 100 optical illusions</li>
<li>
You can get your paper written from scratch with
<a href="https://smartwritingservice.com/" rel="nofollow">Smart Custom Writing Service</a>.
</li>
<li>
<a href="kind.shtml">Very, very kind people!</a> - Kind souls who have sent me hardware. (This is way out of date.
I
need to go back and scour my e-mail.)
</li>
<li>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">Consider taking </span><span lang="EN-US">
<a style="text-decoration: underline; text-underline: single" href="http://www.excelhighschool.com/">
<span style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">high school diploma
online</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">
courses are Excel High School. </span>
</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">Northgate Academy provides faith
based
</span>
<span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif">
<a style="text-decoration: underline; text-underline: single" href="http://www.northgateacademy.com/">
<span style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">online high school
diploma</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 107%; font-family: Times New Roman">
programs</span>
</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="en-us">
<font face="Times New Roman">Best<a href="https://www.woli.edu/"> medical billing specialist online</a> at
Washington Online</font>
</span>
</p>
</li>
<li><a href="https://binlist.io">BIN number lookups</a> and <a href="https://bankcodes.io">bank codes</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Â </p>
<hr noshade=""/>
<h4>Exhibits:</h4>
<ul>
<li><a href="/electron/">Acorn Electron</a></li>
<li><a href="/addresso/">Addressograph-Farrington 1680</a></li>
<li><a href="/am100/">Alpha Micro AM100</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=12">Amstrad</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/amstrad/">CPC464</a></li>
<li><a href="/pc20/">PC-20</a></li>
<li><a href="/ppc640d/">PPC640D</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/apollo/">Apollo Workstations</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=14">Apple</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/apple2/">Apple ][</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/appleiip/">Apple ][+</a></li>
<li><a href="/appleiic/">Apple IIc</a> <img src="graphics/new_pics.gif" width="103" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/app_iigs/">Apple IIgs</a></li>
<li><a href="/apple3/">Apple ///+</a></li>
<li><a href="/lisa/">Lisa</a></li>
<li><a href="/mac128/">Macintosh 128K</a></li>
<li><a href="/mac512/">Macintosh 512K</a></li>
<li><a href="/macclass/">Macintosh Classic</a></li>
<li><a href="/mac_port/">Macintosh Portable</a></li>
<li><a href="/mac_se/">Macintosh SE</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=15">Atari</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/atari400/">400</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/atari800/">800</a></li>
<li><a href="/a800xl/">800XL</a></li>
<li><a href="/atari_pc/">PC</a></li>
<li><a href="/portfoli/">Portfolio</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=16">AT&T</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/3b2/">3B2/300</a></li>
<li><a href="/att-6300/">PC 6300</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/bondwell/">Bondwell B2</a></li>
<li><a href="/z88/">Cambridge Z88</a> Â </li>
<li><a href="/pb1000/">Casio PB-1000</a></li>
<li><a href="/adam/">Coleco Adam</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=4">Commodore</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/a1000/">Amiga 1000</a> <img src="graphics/new_pics.gif" width="103" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/amiga500/">Amiga 500</a></li>
<li><a href="/c116/">116</a></li>
<li><a href="/c16/">C16</a></li>
<li><a href="/c64/">C64</a></li>
<li><a href="/c128/">C128</a></li>
<li><a href="/c128d/">128D</a></li>
<li><a href="/cbm4032/">CBM 4032</a></li>
<li><a href="/cbm8032/">CBM 8032-SK</a></li>
<li><a href="/kim1/">KIM-1</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/pet/">Pet</a></li>
<li><a href="/plus4/">Plus/4</a></li>
<li><a href="/sx64/">SX64</a></li>
<li><a href="/vic20/">VIC 20</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.vic-biz.com/">VIC-BIZ</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=20">Compaq</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/compaqaero/">Aero</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/compaq/">Portable</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/iq1000/">Daewoo IQ-1000</a></li>
<li><a href="/xor/">Data Science XOR</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=25">DEC</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/microvax/">MicroVax</a></li>
<li><a href="/rainbow/">DEC Rainbow</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/diamondmako/">Diamond Mako</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/hypn/">Dynalogic Hyperion</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=29">Epson</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/epsonpx8/">PX-8</a></li>
<li><a href="/qx-10/">QX-10</a></li>
<li><a href="/qx-16/">QX-16</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/ace/">Franklin Ace 1200</a></li>
<li><a href="/ge_work/">GE Workmaster System</a></li>
<li><a href="/explode/">HeadStart Explorer</a></li>
<li><a href="/hp2647a/">Hewlett Packard 2647A</a></li>
<li><a href="/husky/">Husky</a> Â </li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=34">IBM</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/ibm3275/">IBM 3275 Display Station</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibm5100/">5100 Personal Portable Computer</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibm_port/">5155 Personal Portable Computer</a></li>
<li><a href="/displayw/">IBM Displaywriter</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibm-pts/">IBM Personal Typing System</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibmpc/">PC</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibmpcjr/">PCjr</a></li>
<li><a href="/ibmxt/">XT PC</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/imsai/">IMSAI 8080</a> <img src="graphics/new_pics.gif" width="103" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/brain/">Intertec Superbrain II Jr.</a></li>
<li><a href="/k-8073/">K-8073 Development Station Model PS-5/25</a></li>
<li><a href="/showcategory.php?id=37">Kaypro</a> - see Non-Linear Systems, below</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=144">Laser</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/lazer128/">Laser 128</a></li>
<li><a href="/lsr3000/">Laser 3000</a> Â </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/lexbookmb15/">Lexbook MB-15</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/386sx/">Magnavox Magnum16-CD</a></li>
<li><a href="/mai/">M.A.I. S10 Basic Four</a></li>
<li><a href="/aquarius/">Mattel Aquarius</a> <img src="graphics/new_pics.gif" width="103" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/altair/">MITS Altair 8800</a></li>
<li><a href="/morrow/">Morrow Decision I</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=153">NCR</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/ncr-mate/">NCR Decision Mate V</a></li>
<li><a href="/ncr_3125/">NCR System 3125</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=205">NEC</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/nec6001/">PC-6001a</a></li>
<li><a href="/nec8201a/">PC-8201a</a></li>
<li><a href="/nec8500/">PC-8500</a></li>
<li><a href="/necultralite/">UltraLite</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=154">NeXT</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/nextmono/">NeXTstation</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/nextcolor/">NeXTstation Color</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=37">Non-Linear Systems</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/kaypro-1/">Kaypro I</a></li>
<li><a href="/kaypro/">Kaypro II</a></li>
<li><a href="/kaypro4/">Kaypro 4</a></li>
<li><a href="/k2000/">Kaypro 2000</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/oliv_m24/">Olivetti M24 PC</a> Â </li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=39">Osborne</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/osborne/">Osborne 01</a></li>
<li><a href="/osborne2/">Osborne 01 (2nd version)</a></li>
<li><a href="/vixen/">Vixen</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/challege/">OSI Challenger C1P</a></li>
<li><a href="/otrona/">Otrona Attache</a></li>
<li><a href="/outbound/">Outbound Notebook System</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/jr200u/">Panasonic JR200U</a></li>
<li><a href="/poqet_pc/">Poqet PC</a></li>
<li><a href="/psionseries5/">Psion Series 5</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li><a href="/aim65/">Rockwell AIM 65</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=46">Sanyo</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/sanyo775/">MBC-775</a></li>
<li><a href="/sanyombc/">MBC-1150</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/siigs286/">SIIG MiniSys S286</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=19">Sinclair</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/zx80/">ZX-80</a></li>
<li><a href="/zx81/">ZX-81</a></li>
<li><a href="/spectrum/">ZX Spectrum</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/swt/">Southwest Technical Products 6800</a></li>
<li><a href="/video328/">SpectraVideo 328</a></li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=50">Tandy</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/t16b/">16b</a></li>
<li><a href="/model100/">Model 100</a></li>
<li><a href="/m600/">Model 600</a></li>
<li><a href="/coco1/">TRS-80 Color Computer 1</a></li>
<li><a href="/coco2/">TRS-80 Color Computer 2</a></li>
<li><a href="/coco3/">TRS-80 Color Computer 3</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs80-m1/">TRS-80 Model 1</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs80_m2/">TRS-80 Model II</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs80iii/">TRS-80 Model III</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs80_4p/">TRS-80 Model 4P</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs_2000/">TRS-80 Model 2000</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs-pc2/">TRS-80 Pocket Computer Model PC-2</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs-pc3/">TRS-80 Pocket Computer Model PC-3</a></li>
<li><a href="/trs_pc6/">TRS-80 PC-6</a></li>
<li><a href="/wp-2/">Tandy WP-2</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="/tvi950/">TeleVideo 950</a></li>
<li><a href="/ti99/">Texas Instruments TI-99/4A</a></li>
<li><a href="/vidbrain/">VideoBrain</a></li>
<li><a href="/usrpilot5000/">U.S. Robotics Pilot 5000</a> <img src="graphics/new.gif" width="34" height="9"/></li>
<li>
Wang
<ul>
<li><a href="/wang/">Big Old Wang</a></li>
<li><a href="/wang_fst/">Field Service Terminal</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/showcategory.php?id=55">Zenith</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="/zenith/">Zenith Data Systems Model Z89</a></li>
<li><a href="/zenith_l/">Zenith Laptops</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<hr noshade=""/>
<p style="margin-left: 30px">
<font face="Verdana" size="2">Little known fact : Some optical illusions have caused people to have accidents whilst
viewing the illusions, and
this has resulted in a small rise of injury claims against their places of employment.
</font>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 30px"></p>
<hr noshade=""/>
<address>
Send comments to <a href="http://www.3inabed.com/email.JPG">here</a>! (Note the new address. Lots of space to hold photos sent my way.)
</address>
<hr noshade=""/>
<p><a href="/"><img src="/graphics/back.gif" alt="Begone!" align="middle" border="0" width="100" height="73"/> Back to the Museum!</a> </p>
<hr noshade=""/>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
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| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Obsolete Computer Museum User Comments RSS 2.0 Feed](/comments.rss)
[Obsolete Computer Museum Main Page](/) |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| | Museum Logo |
Welcome to the [Obsolete](define.shtml) Computer Museum!
---
Lobby:* [Latest News](news.shtml) - Running since 1995!
* Out with the obsolete, in comes new. Check out all the new computers and gadgets to go with them reviewed on
[savantmag.com](http://savantmag.com).
* For the latest product reviews.
* [Tom Copper Exhibit](/copper/) - Special exhibit that makes my collection look like a sad joke! He also
has his own [Web pages](http://members.xoom.com/Tom_Copper/tvcu.htm).
* [Pi Day Celebrations](https://piday.co) - one thing that never goes obsolute is the number Pi!
* If you're looking to build the
**[best gaming PC](https://elitegamingcomputers.com/top-gaming-computers/)**
possible, check out Elite Gaming Computers.
* [Obsolete Computer Museum FAQ](/faq/ocm_faq.html) - Everything you wanted to know about this Museum,
and
then some. If your question isn't answered here, you shouldn't be asking it.
* [Obsolete Computer Helpline](/helpline/) - Go here for answers to your questions about old computers.
* [Very, very smart people!](smart.shtml) - I just couldn't keep up with bad links. Sorry.
* [illusions.org](http://www.illusions.org) - A collection of 100 optical illusions
* You can get your paper written from scratch with
[Smart Custom Writing Service](https://smartwritingservice.com/).
* [Very, very kind people!](kind.shtml) - Kind souls who have sent me hardware. (This is way out of date.
I
need to go back and scour my e-mail.)
* Consider taking
[high school diploma
online](http://www.excelhighschool.com/)
courses are Excel High School.
* Northgate Academy provides faith
based
[online high school
diploma](http://www.northgateacademy.com/)
programs
* Best [medical billing specialist online](https://www.woli.edu/) at
Washington Online
* [BIN number lookups](https://binlist.io) and [bank codes](https://bankcodes.io)
Â
---
Exhibits:* [Acorn Electron](/electron/)
* [Addressograph-Farrington 1680](/addresso/)
* [Alpha Micro AM100](/am100/)
* [Amstrad](/showcategory.php?id=12)
+ [CPC464](/amstrad/)
+ [PC-20](/pc20/)
+ [PPC640D](/ppc640d/)
* [Apollo Workstations](/apollo/)
* [Apple](/showcategory.php?id=14)
+ [Apple ][](/apple2/)
+ [Apple ][+](/appleiip/)
+ [Apple IIc](/appleiic/)
+ [Apple IIgs](/app_iigs/)
+ [Apple ///+](/apple3/)
+ [Lisa](/lisa/)
+ [Macintosh 128K](/mac128/)
+ [Macintosh 512K](/mac512/)
+ [Macintosh Classic](/macclass/)
+ [Macintosh Portable](/mac_port/)
+ [Macintosh SE](/mac_se/)
* [Atari](/showcategory.php?id=15)
+ [400](/atari400/)
+ [800](/atari800/)
+ [800XL](/a800xl/)
+ [PC](/atari_pc/)
+ [Portfolio](/portfoli/)
* [AT&T](/showcategory.php?id=16)
+ [3B2/300](/3b2/)
+ [PC 6300](/att-6300/)
* [Bondwell B2](/bondwell/)
* [Cambridge Z88](/z88/) Â
* [Casio PB-1000](/pb1000/)
* [Coleco Adam](/adam/)
* [Commodore](/showcategory.php?id=4)
+ [Amiga 1000](/a1000/)
+ [Amiga 500](/amiga500/)
+ [116](/c116/)
+ [C16](/c16/)
+ [C64](/c64/)
+ [C128](/c128/)
+ [128D](/c128d/)
+ [CBM 4032](/cbm4032/)
+ [CBM 8032-SK](/cbm8032/)
+ [KIM-1](/kim1/)
+ [Pet](/pet/)
+ [Plus/4](/plus4/)
+ [SX64](/sx64/)
+ [VIC 20](/vic20/)
+ [VIC-BIZ](http://www.vic-biz.com/)
* [Compaq](/showcategory.php?id=20)
+ [Aero](/compaqaero/)
+ [Portable](/compaq/)
* [Daewoo IQ-1000](/iq1000/)
* [Data Science XOR](/xor/)
* [DEC](/showcategory.php?id=25)
+ [MicroVax](/microvax/)
+ [DEC Rainbow](/rainbow/)
* [Diamond Mako](/diamondmako/)
* [Dynalogic Hyperion](/hypn/)
* [Epson](/showcategory.php?id=29)
+ [PX-8](/epsonpx8/)
+ [QX-10](/qx-10/)
+ [QX-16](/qx-16/)
* [Franklin Ace 1200](/ace/)
* [GE Workmaster System](/ge_work/)
* [HeadStart Explorer](/explode/)
* [Hewlett Packard 2647A](/hp2647a/)
* [Husky](/husky/) Â
* [IBM](/showcategory.php?id=34)
+ [IBM 3275 Display Station](/ibm3275/)
+ [5100 Personal Portable Computer](/ibm5100/)
+ [5155 Personal Portable Computer](/ibm_port/)
+ [IBM Displaywriter](/displayw/)
+ [IBM Personal Typing System](/ibm-pts/)
+ [PC](/ibmpc/)
+ [PCjr](/ibmpcjr/)
+ [XT PC](/ibmxt/)
* [IMSAI 8080](/imsai/)
* [Intertec Superbrain II Jr.](/brain/)
* [K-8073 Development Station Model PS-5/25](/k-8073/)
* [Kaypro](/showcategory.php?id=37) - see Non-Linear Systems, below
* [Laser](/showcategory.php?id=144)
+ [Laser 128](/lazer128/)
+ [Laser 3000](/lsr3000/) Â
* [Lexbook MB-15](/lexbookmb15/)
* [Magnavox Magnum16-CD](/386sx/)
* [M.A.I. S10 Basic Four](/mai/)
* [Mattel Aquarius](/aquarius/)
* [MITS Altair 8800](/altair/)
* [Morrow Decision I](/morrow/)
* [NCR](/showcategory.php?id=153)
+ [NCR Decision Mate V](/ncr-mate/)
+ [NCR System 3125](/ncr_3125/)
* [NEC](/showcategory.php?id=205)
+ [PC-6001a](/nec6001/)
+ [PC-8201a](/nec8201a/)
+ [PC-8500](/nec8500/)
+ [UltraLite](/necultralite/)
* [NeXT](/showcategory.php?id=154)
+ [NeXTstation](/nextmono/)
+ [NeXTstation Color](/nextcolor/)
* [Non-Linear Systems](/showcategory.php?id=37)
+ [Kaypro I](/kaypro-1/)
+ [Kaypro II](/kaypro/)
+ [Kaypro 4](/kaypro4/)
+ [Kaypro 2000](/k2000/)
* [Olivetti M24 PC](/oliv_m24/) Â
* [Osborne](/showcategory.php?id=39)
+ [Osborne 01](/osborne/)
+ [Osborne 01 (2nd version)](/osborne2/)
+ [Vixen](/vixen/)
* [OSI Challenger C1P](/challege/)
* [Otrona Attache](/otrona/)
* [Outbound Notebook System](/outbound/)
* [Panasonic JR200U](/jr200u/)
* [Poqet PC](/poqet_pc/)
* [Psion Series 5](/psionseries5/)
* [Rockwell AIM 65](/aim65/)
* [Sanyo](/showcategory.php?id=46)
+ [MBC-775](/sanyo775/)
+ [MBC-1150](/sanyombc/)
* [SIIG MiniSys S286](/siigs286/)
* [Sinclair](/showcategory.php?id=19)
+ [ZX-80](/zx80/)
+ [ZX-81](/zx81/)
+ [ZX Spectrum](/spectrum/)
* [Southwest Technical Products 6800](/swt/)
* [SpectraVideo 328](/video328/)
* [Tandy](/showcategory.php?id=50)
+ [16b](/t16b/)
+ [Model 100](/model100/)
+ [Model 600](/m600/)
+ [TRS-80 Color Computer 1](/coco1/)
+ [TRS-80 Color Computer 2](/coco2/)
+ [TRS-80 Color Computer 3](/coco3/)
+ [TRS-80 Model 1](/trs80-m1/)
+ [TRS-80 Model II](/trs80_m2/)
+ [TRS-80 Model III](/trs80iii/)
+ [TRS-80 Model 4P](/trs80_4p/)
+ [TRS-80 Model 2000](/trs_2000/)
+ [TRS-80 Pocket Computer Model PC-2](/trs-pc2/)
+ [TRS-80 Pocket Computer Model PC-3](/trs-pc3/)
+ [TRS-80 PC-6](/trs_pc6/)
+ [Tandy WP-2](/wp-2/)
* [TeleVideo 950](/tvi950/)
* [Texas Instruments TI-99/4A](/ti99/)
* [VideoBrain](/vidbrain/)
* [U.S. Robotics Pilot 5000](/usrpilot5000/)
* Wang
+ [Big Old Wang](/wang/)
+ [Field Service Terminal](/wang_fst/)
* [Zenith](/showcategory.php?id=55)
+ [Zenith Data Systems Model Z89](/zenith/)
+ [Zenith Laptops](/zenith_l/)
---
Little known fact : Some optical illusions have caused people to have accidents whilst
viewing the illusions, and
this has resulted in a small rise of injury claims against their places of employment.
---
Send comments to [here](http://www.3inabed.com/email.JPG)! (Note the new address. Lots of space to hold photos sent my way.)
---
[Begone! Back to the Museum!](/)
---
|
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<html>
<head>
<title>Lassie Web</title>
<meta name="description" content="A salute to my favorite TV series of all time. Includes Lassie movie/televison facts, trivia, complete episode guide.">
<meta name="author" content="Linda M. Young">
<meta name="copyright" content="©1996-2023 Linda M. Young">
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<meta name="keywords" content="Lassie, Lass, collie, collie dog, Lassie collie, Lassie, TV, television, Rudd Weatherwax, Bob Weatherwax, Robert Weatherwax, Weatherwax, Tommy Rettig, Tom Rettig, Rettig, George Cleveland, Cleveland, Jan Clayton, Clayton, Richard Garland, Garland, Donald Keeler, Keeler, Paul Maxey, Maxey, Marjorie Bennett, Bennett, Joey Vieira, Vieira, Dayton Lummis, Lummis, Florence Lake, Lake, Doc Weaver, Arthur Space, Space, Weatherwax, Lassie, Jon Provost, Provost, Robert Bray, Bob Bray, Bray, June Lockhart, Lockhart, Cloris Leachman, Leachman, Jon Shepodd, Shepodd, George Chandler, Chandler, Hugh Reilly, Reilly, Andy Clyde, Clyde, Todd Ferrell, Ferrell, Richard Correll, Correll, Sally Bliss, Bliss, Flip Mark, Mark, Flip, Jack DeMave, DeMave, Jed Allan, Allan, Ron Hayes, Hayes, Larry Pennell, Pennell, Larry Wilcox, CHiPs, Wilcox, Pamelyn Ferdin, Ferdin, Burton, Skip Burton, Josh Albee, Joshua Albee, Albee, Mark Miranda, Miranda, Radames Pera, Pera, Timmy Martin, Paul Martin, Timmy, Timmy and Lassie, Timmy & Lassie, Ruth Martin, Petrie Martin, Martin, Miss Hazlit, Jeff Miller, Ellen Miller, George Miller, Gramps Miller, Porky, Porky Brockway, Jeff, Lassie, Pokey, Domino, Bessie, Cully Wilson, Mr. Cully, Mr Cully, Corey Stuart, Bob Ericson, Bob Erickson, Scott Turner, Holden, Holden Ranch, Garth Holden, Keith Holden, Mike, Dale Mitchell, Ron Holden, Lucy Baker, Elaine Baker, Sue Lambert, movies, movie, episode, episode guide, guide, trivia, rough collie, collie, dog, Lassie, MGM, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Robert Maxwell, Maxwell, Jack Wrather, Bonita Granville, Bonita Granville Wrather, Lassie Unleashed, Unleashed, Story of Lassie, Lassie, Story, Christopher Stone, Stone, Will Nipper, Nipper, Wendy Cox, Dee Wallace, Dee Wallace Stone, Stone, Cox, Will Estes, Estes, Eric Knight, Knight, Earl Keen, radio, radio series, Red Heart, Keen, Lassie's Rescue Rangers, Rescue Rangers, Rudd Weatherwax, Robert Weatherwax, Bob Weatherwax, Bill, Shep, Weatherwax, Animal Planet, Nickelodeon, Animal Planet, Discovery Kids, Almgren, Susie Almgren, Sevier, Corey Sevier, Massey, Walter Massey, Post, Tim Post, Vermont, Hudson Falls, Canada, Cinar, CINAR, Golden Books, Golden Books Entertainment, Lassie: A Christmas Story, Lassie a Christmas Story, Shane Sinutko, Sinutko, Sally Boyden, Boyden, Jeannette Nolan, Nolan, Thomas Guiry, Turner, Roddy McDowall, Roddy McDowell, Jere Knight, Whitman, Whitman books, Lassie radio series, Elizabeth Taylor, Donald Crisp, Edmund Gwenn, Elsa Lancaster, Peter Lawford, Paul Kelly, Tom Drake, Jeanette McDonald, Claude Jarman, Claude Jarman Jr, Timmy Cabot, Karen Cabot, Dr. Stuart, Dr Stuart, Todd Fennell, Natalie Vansier">
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<basefont=2>
<body background="lassiebg.jpg" body text="#000000" link="#6a3f17" vlink="#1f1206" alink="#1f1206" leftmargin="35" topmargin="20" marginwidth="35" marginheight="20"><br>
<a name="top">
<center>
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0>
<tr>
<td width="696" align=center valign=middle><img width="696" height="626" src="NewLassieImage.gif" border=0 alt="Portrait of Lassie"><br>
</td>
<td width="350" valign="top">
<a href="lassanni.htm"><img src="lassiebanner.gif" alt="75 Years of Lassie" width="350" height="44" border="0" vspace="20"></a><br />
<a href="lassfaq.htm"><img src="lassfaq.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="FAQ"></a><br>
<a href="lassfaq.htm#reruns"><img src="lassonln.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Where Can I Watch Lassie?"></a><br>
<a href="lassfact.htm"><img src="lassfact.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Facts"></a><br>
<a href="http://episodes.lassieweb.org"><img src="lasseps.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Episode Guide: Seasons 1-19"></a><br>
<a href="lasswhat.htm"><img src="lasswher.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Whatever Happened To These Lassie Cast Members?"></a><br>
<a href="lassnew.htm"><img src="lassnew.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Other Lassie Series: Lassie's Rescue Rangers, The New Lassie, Lassie on Animal Planet"></a><br>
<a href="lassmovs.htm"><img src="lassmovs.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Movies, Radio Series, Television Specials, Videos, DVDs"></a><br>
<a href="lassnovs.htm"><img src="lassnovs.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="The Lassie Whitman Novels and Big Little Books, With a Short List of Other Lassie Books"></a><br>
<a href="lasspics.htm"><img src="lasspics.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Photo Album: a History of the Character in Pictures"></a><br>
<a href="lasslink.htm"><img src="lasslink.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Links"></a><br>
<a href="lassarts.htm"><img src="lassarts.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Articles from TV Guide and Elsewhere"></a><br>
<a href="http://fanfiction.lassieweb.org"><img src="lassfic.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="Lassie Fanfiction"></a><br>
<a href="lasstriv.htm"><img src="lasstriv.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="The Lassie Trivia Test"></a><br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Friends_of_Lassie/"><img src="lasslist.gif" width="350" height="30" border=0 alt="The Lassie Mailing List"></a><br>
 <br>
<a href="lassmems.htm"><img src="lassmem.gif" alt="Memories of Lassie" width="350" height="30" border=0></a><br>
<a href="lasssite.htm"><img src="lasssite.gif" width="175" height="30" border=0 alt="Site Map"><a href="lassmail.htm"><img src="lassmail.gif" width="175" height="30" border=0 alt="E-mail Me"></a><br>
                               <b><font face="Arial,Helvetica,Optimum,NewsGothic,LetterGothic,Letter Gothic,News Gothic"><font size=-2>        © 1996 - 2023 Linda M. Young</center>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</center>
<p> </p>
<p><b><font size=+3>P</font>erhaps for</b> you it began in a darkened movie theatre, breathlessly watching the story of a dog's faithful devotion. Or maybe you were a child of the '50s sprawled on the carpet before a wooden television console, eyes fixed on flickering black-and-white. Perhaps you became acquainted later, on a color set or by syndicated rerun. Maybe, like so many of us, you always awaited those revival series and movies with anticipation. Whenever it began, the attraction has never gone away—you still enjoy love, loyalty and adventure with a collie named Lassie.</p>
<p><i>Lassie</i> remains one of my earliest TV memories: one of sitting cross-legged in front of one of those big polished wood monochrome sets with their woven speaker boxes and Bakelite control knobs, watching snowy reruns of <i>Jeff's Collie</i> on Boston's WBZ as I also watched the new Timmy episodes on Sunday nights at 7 p.m. on CBS, sponsored always by Campbell Soups. I remember the advent of the ranger and the all-animal episodes, being disillusioned as the stories grew steadily more "relevant"—and, sadly, (for me, anyway) more boring, of having high hopes for <i>The New Lassie</i>, and finding only one outstanding story—and one real "howler"—in the lot. A decade later the Cinar series that ran on the Animal Planet network caught my attention.</p>
<p>Whatever my own disappointments, the call of her adventures has remained strong. If there's a <i>Lassie</i> rerun on, I can't resist it, and have caught reruns (first in syndication on various Providence and Boston stations, then on Nickelodeon and Animal Planet, Discovery Kids and WHT, now on Angel2 and FETV and whomever else will broadcast it) when I can. I have all of the DVDs released in the U.S. and even a couple of videotapes and Region 2 offerings. Like Lassie, we fans remain faithful.</p>
<p>And yes, <a href="http://episodes.lassieweb.org/lassodsy.htm">"The Odyssey"</a> is still one of my favorite television moments of all time.</p>
<p> </p>
<center><table border cellpadding=15 width=90%>
<tr>
<td><font face="Arial,Univers,Helvetica,Optimum,NewsGothic,LetterGothic,Letter Gothic,News Gothic"><font size=-1><b>Information on this site came from the following sources:</b><br>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://us.imdb.com/">The Internet Movie Database</a>
<li>Tim Brooks and Earl Marsh, <i>The Complete Directory To Prime-Time Network and Cable TV Shows 1946 to present</i>, Ballantine, various editions
<li>Frank Buxton and Bill Owens, <i>The Big Broadcast</i>, Viking Press, 1972
<li>Harry Castleman and Walter J. Podrazik, <i>Harry and Wally's Favorite TV Shows</i>, Prentice Hall, 1989
<li>Mike Cline, information on "The Journey" via e-mail
<li>Ace Collins, <i>Lassie: A Dog's Life</i>, Penguin Books, 1993
<li>John Dunning, <i>Tune in Yesterday</i> and <i>On the Air: The Encyclopedia of Old-Time Radio</i>, Oxford University Press, 1998
<li>Larry James Gianakos, <i>Television Drama Series Programming: A Comprehensive Chronicle</i>, Scarecrow Press, 1980 (provided to me by Tom Weinstein)
<li>Google files that include newspaper articles about <i>Lassie</i>
<li>1957 <i>Life</i> Magazine article, "A Big Changeover for Lassie"
<li>Alex McNicol, <i>Total Television</i>, Viking Penguin, various editions
<li>The <i>Providence Journal-Bulletin</i> television sections 1954-1973
<li>Vincent Terrace, <i>The Complete Encyclopedia of Television Programs 1947-1976</i>, A.S. Barnes, 1976
<li><i>TV Guide</i> (various articles)
<li>Rudd Weatherwax, <i>The Story of Lassie</i>, Duell Sloan & Pierce, 1950
<li>David Zinman, <i>Saturday Afternoon at the Bijou</i>, Arlington House, 1973
<li>and all the wonderful folks who write to give me information, to whom I owe so many thanks!
</font></font></ul></td>
</tr>
</table></p>
<br />
<p><TABLE BORDER cellpadding="15">
<TR>
<TD>
<i><b><FONT SIZE=+1>L</FONT>assie</i> is </b> presently the property of DreamWorks (previously Eric Knight's family, Rudd or Robert Weatherwax, Robert Maxwell Productions, The Wrather Corporation, Palladium Entertainment, Broadway Video and Golden Books Television/CINAR, and Classic Media). This is a fan page. No copyright infringment is intended. Any opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the thoughts of the creators or producers.</TD></TR>
</TABLE></p><br />
<center>
<p><img width=585 height=7 border=0 src="lassbar.gif" alt="tricolor divider"></p>
</center>
<br>
<center><p><a href="http://television.flyingdreams.org"><img width=179 height=20 src="visittvsites.gif" alt="Visit our television sites" border=0></a>       <a href="http://www.flyingdreams.org/"><img width=117 height=20 src="flyinglink.gif" alt="Flying Dreams Domain" border=0></a></p></center>
</body>
</html>
|
Lassie Web
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Portrait of Lassie | [75 Years of Lassie](lassanni.htm) |
**Perhaps for** you it began in a darkened movie theatre, breathlessly watching the story of a dog's faithful devotion. Or maybe you were a child of the '50s sprawled on the carpet before a wooden television console, eyes fixed on flickering black-and-white. Perhaps you became acquainted later, on a color set or by syndicated rerun. Maybe, like so many of us, you always awaited those revival series and movies with anticipation. Whenever it began, the attraction has never gone away—you still enjoy love, loyalty and adventure with a collie named Lassie.
*Lassie* remains one of my earliest TV memories: one of sitting cross-legged in front of one of those big polished wood monochrome sets with their woven speaker boxes and Bakelite control knobs, watching snowy reruns of *Jeff's Collie* on Boston's WBZ as I also watched the new Timmy episodes on Sunday nights at 7 p.m. on CBS, sponsored always by Campbell Soups. I remember the advent of the ranger and the all-animal episodes, being disillusioned as the stories grew steadily more "relevant"—and, sadly, (for me, anyway) more boring, of having high hopes for *The New Lassie*, and finding only one outstanding story—and one real "howler"—in the lot. A decade later the Cinar series that ran on the Animal Planet network caught my attention.
Whatever my own disappointments, the call of her adventures has remained strong. If there's a *Lassie* rerun on, I can't resist it, and have caught reruns (first in syndication on various Providence and Boston stations, then on Nickelodeon and Animal Planet, Discovery Kids and WHT, now on Angel2 and FETV and whomever else will broadcast it) when I can. I have all of the DVDs released in the U.S. and even a couple of videotapes and Region 2 offerings. Like Lassie, we fans remain faithful.
And yes, ["The Odyssey"](http://episodes.lassieweb.org/lassodsy.htm) is still one of my favorite television moments of all time.
| |
| --- |
| **Information on this site came from the following sources:**
* [The Internet Movie Database](http://us.imdb.com/)* Tim Brooks and Earl Marsh, *The Complete Directory To Prime-Time Network and Cable TV Shows 1946 to present*, Ballantine, various editions
* Frank Buxton and Bill Owens, *The Big Broadcast*, Viking Press, 1972
* Harry Castleman and Walter J. Podrazik, *Harry and Wally's Favorite TV Shows*, Prentice Hall, 1989
* Mike Cline, information on "The Journey" via e-mail
* Ace Collins, *Lassie: A Dog's Life*, Penguin Books, 1993
* John Dunning, *Tune in Yesterday* and *On the Air: The Encyclopedia of Old-Time Radio*, Oxford University Press, 1998
* Larry James Gianakos, *Television Drama Series Programming: A Comprehensive Chronicle*, Scarecrow Press, 1980 (provided to me by Tom Weinstein)
* Google files that include newspaper articles about *Lassie** 1957 *Life* Magazine article, "A Big Changeover for Lassie"
* Alex McNicol, *Total Television*, Viking Penguin, various editions
* The *Providence Journal-Bulletin* television sections 1954-1973
* Vincent Terrace, *The Complete Encyclopedia of Television Programs 1947-1976*, A.S. Barnes, 1976
* *TV Guide* (various articles)
* Rudd Weatherwax, *The Story of Lassie*, Duell Sloan & Pierce, 1950
* David Zinman, *Saturday Afternoon at the Bijou*, Arlington House, 1973
* and all the wonderful folks who write to give me information, to whom I owe so many thanks!
|
| http://lassieweb.org/ |
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html><head>
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><title>Berglas.</title><style type="text/css">
h1, h2, h3, h4 {
color: #000099;
}
</style></head><body style="font-family: Verdana;"><h2>Melissa, Anthony, Ella and Madeline Berglas</h2><p>Now living in Mooloolah Valley, Sunshine Coast, Qld</p><p>Anthony@Berglas.org<br>Melissa@Berglas.org<br>Ella@Berglas.org<br>Maddie@Berglas.org</p><br>
<br>
<p><img src="Family2021close-DSC02761.jpg" alt="Family 2021" height="600" width="960"><br>
</p>
<h2>Damien, Jane, Oliver and Luca Berglas</h2><p>Of Kedron, Brisbane, Australia.<br>
</p>
<p>E-Mails are first-name at berglas.org or wallyberg at berglas.org.
(replace at with @)</p><h2>Miscellaneous<br>
</h2><a href="Articles/TheAnswer/The%20Answer%20Yacht.html">Anthony's Yacht The Answer</a><br>
<br>
<p><a href="amberglas">Anthony & Melissa's photos.</a><br>
</p>
<p><a href="Ollie0203/index.htm">Ollie 02 03</a><br>
</p>
<p><a href="Articles">Articles</a></p><p><a href="http://www.ComputersThink.com">Computers Think book</a></p>
<p><a href="simpleorm/index.html">SimpleORM Object Relational Mapping</a></p>
<p><a href="EllaTutor">Ella Tutor</a><br>
</p>
<p>More to come...<br>
</p>
</body></html> |
Berglas.
h1, h2, h3, h4 {
color: #000099;
}
## Melissa, Anthony, Ella and Madeline Berglas
Now living in Mooloolah Valley, Sunshine Coast, Qld
Anthony@Berglas.org
Melissa@Berglas.org
Ella@Berglas.org
Maddie@Berglas.org
## Damien, Jane, Oliver and Luca Berglas
Of Kedron, Brisbane, Australia.
E-Mails are first-name at berglas.org or wallyberg at berglas.org.
(replace at with @)
## Miscellaneous
[Anthony's Yacht The Answer](Articles/TheAnswer/The%20Answer%20Yacht.html)
[Anthony & Melissa's photos.](amberglas)
[Ollie 02 03](Ollie0203/index.htm)
<Articles>
[Computers Think book](http://www.ComputersThink.com)
[SimpleORM Object Relational Mapping](simpleorm/index.html)
[Ella Tutor](EllaTutor)
More to come...
| http://berglas.org/ |
<html>
<head>
<title>EGYPTAIR 990 Introduction</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#CCCCCC">
<h4> </h4>
<h1 align="center"><font color="#3366CC">Introduction to EgyptAir 990</font></h1>
<h4>On the morning of October 31, 1999, EgyptAir flight 990 from New York to Cairo
took off from JFK without incident. Over the next ten minutes the Boeing 767
climbed to its cruising altitude at 33,000 feet, but at 1:49:53 without any
warning, radar indicated the jet went into a steep dive and quite literally
fell out of the sky. Before the black box recorders could be recovered from
the bottom of the ocean, a private company, Megadata Corp., released radar findings
three days later indicating that the plane fell from 33,000 feet to 16,000 feet
and then climbed back up to 24,000 feet before breaking apart in its final dive
into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Nantucket (<a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04/">1</a>).</h4>
<h5 align="center"><img src="images/ntsb%20map.gif" width="541" height="413"><br>
<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/former/hall/jhc991103c/egypt1.gif%20">http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/former/hall/jhc991103c/egypt1.gif
</a></h5>
<h5 align="center"><img src="images/search%20area.gif" width="318" height="260"><br>
<a href="http://www.greatdreams.com/plane990.htm%20">http://www.greatdreams.com/plane990.htm
</a></h5>
<h5 align="center"><a href="http://www.greatdreams.com/plane990.htm%20"><img src="images/path%20elevation%20(CNN).jpg" width="450" height="400" border="0"></a><br>
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04">http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04</a>
</h5>
<h3 align="center">Even before the data recorders were recovered, the mystery
of what happened to EgyptAir 990 began to evolve.</h3>
<h4 align="left">Recovery of the crash debris proved to be difficult, and controversial.
However, once the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and the flight data recorder
(FDR) were retrieved, the dilemma of EgyptAir 990's cryptic demise became not
just scientific, but cultural, political and religious.</h4>
<h4 align="left">According to the <a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/events/ea990/default.htm">National
Transporation Safety Board</a> (NTSB), the relief co-pilot, Gamil al-Batouti,
entered the cockpit twenty minutes after takeoff and requested that he start
his shift several hours early. The command first officer protested, but the
relief co-pilot insisted. Then, after the pilot, Capt. Ahmed Mahmoud el-Habashy,
left the cockpit to go to the bathroom, Batouti began a repetitious recitation
of a simple Muslim prayer, disconnected the autopilot, set the engines back
to idle position and put the airplane in a severe 40 degree downward dive. At
some point, the pilot returned to the cockpit and struggled to regain altitude,
at which point Batouti cut power to the engines. Furthermore, according to the
NTSB, because Habashy was pulling back on the control yoke and Batouti was pushing
forward, they broke the <a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/events/ea990/ElevatorControlSystem.jpg">tandem
control mechanism</a> called a torque tube that causes the control yoke to work
together to control the airplanes elevators, and therefore the left elevator
was angled up and the right elevator was angled down. The NTSB refrained from
giving a motive to Batouti's actions, but it suggested early on that the crash
was caused by the co-pilot's intent (<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm">2</a>).</h4>
<h6 align="center"><img src="images/elevators.jpg" width="220" height="168" align="middle"><br>
<a href="http://www.enterprisemission.com/egyptair3.htm">http://www.enterprisemission.com/egyptair3.htm</a>
</h6>
<h2 align="left">Speculation began immediately.</h2>
<h4 align="left">With the FDR being recovered on November 9, and the CVR found
a full two weeks after the crash, experts and crackpots alike began to run through
the possible scenarios. Given the string of suspicious plane crashes that had
preceded EgyptAir's mysterious plummet, such as TWA Flight 800, SilkAir Flight
111 and Alaska Airlines Flight 261, conspiratorial explanations based on the
radar data alone were rampant. Parallels were drawn between accounts of missiles
and bombs being used on these previous flights with the flight scenario of EgyptAir
990. Once the FDR was retrieved, the scenarios shifted to accommodate the new
data. People speculated that the pilots had been reacting to something they
saw (evasive maneuver), a mechanical malfunction or a missile or bomb damaging
the plane. However, once the CVR was successfully transcribed, two camps definitely
emerged in the battle over causes: the NTSB group which leaned towards a pilot
suicide scenario, and basically everyone else who unwilling to buy this explanation,
whether due to skepticism, lack of evidence or politics. Before the CVR was
recovered, developing scenarios whereby Batouti was a hero trying to rescue
his injured craft were much easier, but afterwards, this task became an exercise
in creative interpretation. The two sides were saying extremely different things
about exactly the same evidence. Often, however, the conspiracy side conveniently
left out parts of the CVR transcript and FDR data that were not supportive of
their explanation (<a href="http://hometown.aol.com/bardonia/egyptair.htm">4</a>).
</h4>
<h4 align="left">Even if the combination of data from the recorders dispels the
"mystery" of EgyptAir 990's demise, it does little to explain the motive the
co-pilot had for committing mass murder and suicide. On top of that, the handling
of the situation by both the government of the United States as well as Egypt
is revealing for its bungling and political motivations. Therefore, an examination
of the various theories and their illumination of strange coincidences, as well
as the cultural, political and religious factors involved, provide those interested
in conspiracy theory with plenty of insights, not just regarding U.S. and Egypt
policy, but the creation and function of conspiracy theory as an avenue of civic
participation.</h4>
<h2 align="center"><a href="missile.html">on to the<br>
THEORIES<br>
</a>or<br>
<a href="index.html">HOME</a></h2>
<hr>
<h5 align="left">Sources:</h5>
<h5 align="left">1) <a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04/">http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04/</a><br>
2) <a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm">http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm</a><br>
3) <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/11/langewiesche.htm">http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/11/langewiesche.htm</a><br>
4) <a href="http://hometown.aol.com/bardonia/egyptair.htm">http://hometown.aol.com/bardonia/egyptair.htm</a></h5>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<h6 align="left"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">©
2003 Jacob Lunow. All rights revered, all wrongs <br>
reversed. Prohibited where void.Certain restrictions <br>
may apply. Use as directed by physician. May cause <br>
headaches, diarrhea, nausea. TX, NJ, CT, Puerto Rico<br>
& Guam may not be eligible to participate. May contain<br>
partially hydrogenated vegetable oil and/or lard.</font></h6>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
|
EGYPTAIR 990 Introduction
####
# Introduction to EgyptAir 990
#### On the morning of October 31, 1999, EgyptAir flight 990 from New York to Cairo
took off from JFK without incident. Over the next ten minutes the Boeing 767
climbed to its cruising altitude at 33,000 feet, but at 1:49:53 without any
warning, radar indicated the jet went into a steep dive and quite literally
fell out of the sky. Before the black box recorders could be recovered from
the bottom of the ocean, a private company, Megadata Corp., released radar findings
three days later indicating that the plane fell from 33,000 feet to 16,000 feet
and then climbed back up to 24,000 feet before breaking apart in its final dive
into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Nantucket ([1](http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04/)).
#####
[http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/former/hall/jhc991103c/egypt1.gif](http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/former/hall/jhc991103c/egypt1.gif%20)
#####
[http://www.greatdreams.com/plane990.htm](http://www.greatdreams.com/plane990.htm%20)
#####
<http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04>
### Even before the data recorders were recovered, the mystery
of what happened to EgyptAir 990 began to evolve.
#### Recovery of the crash debris proved to be difficult, and controversial.
However, once the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and the flight data recorder
(FDR) were retrieved, the dilemma of EgyptAir 990's cryptic demise became not
just scientific, but cultural, political and religious.
#### According to the [National
Transporation Safety Board](http://www.ntsb.gov/events/ea990/default.htm) (NTSB), the relief co-pilot, Gamil al-Batouti,
entered the cockpit twenty minutes after takeoff and requested that he start
his shift several hours early. The command first officer protested, but the
relief co-pilot insisted. Then, after the pilot, Capt. Ahmed Mahmoud el-Habashy,
left the cockpit to go to the bathroom, Batouti began a repetitious recitation
of a simple Muslim prayer, disconnected the autopilot, set the engines back
to idle position and put the airplane in a severe 40 degree downward dive. At
some point, the pilot returned to the cockpit and struggled to regain altitude,
at which point Batouti cut power to the engines. Furthermore, according to the
NTSB, because Habashy was pulling back on the control yoke and Batouti was pushing
forward, they broke the [tandem
control mechanism](http://www.ntsb.gov/events/ea990/ElevatorControlSystem.jpg) called a torque tube that causes the control yoke to work
together to control the airplanes elevators, and therefore the left elevator
was angled up and the right elevator was angled down. The NTSB refrained from
giving a motive to Batouti's actions, but it suggested early on that the crash
was caused by the co-pilot's intent ([2](http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm)).
######
<http://www.enterprisemission.com/egyptair3.htm>
## Speculation began immediately.
#### With the FDR being recovered on November 9, and the CVR found
a full two weeks after the crash, experts and crackpots alike began to run through
the possible scenarios. Given the string of suspicious plane crashes that had
preceded EgyptAir's mysterious plummet, such as TWA Flight 800, SilkAir Flight
111 and Alaska Airlines Flight 261, conspiratorial explanations based on the
radar data alone were rampant. Parallels were drawn between accounts of missiles
and bombs being used on these previous flights with the flight scenario of EgyptAir
990. Once the FDR was retrieved, the scenarios shifted to accommodate the new
data. People speculated that the pilots had been reacting to something they
saw (evasive maneuver), a mechanical malfunction or a missile or bomb damaging
the plane. However, once the CVR was successfully transcribed, two camps definitely
emerged in the battle over causes: the NTSB group which leaned towards a pilot
suicide scenario, and basically everyone else who unwilling to buy this explanation,
whether due to skepticism, lack of evidence or politics. Before the CVR was
recovered, developing scenarios whereby Batouti was a hero trying to rescue
his injured craft were much easier, but afterwards, this task became an exercise
in creative interpretation. The two sides were saying extremely different things
about exactly the same evidence. Often, however, the conspiracy side conveniently
left out parts of the CVR transcript and FDR data that were not supportive of
their explanation ([4](http://hometown.aol.com/bardonia/egyptair.htm)).
#### Even if the combination of data from the recorders dispels the
"mystery" of EgyptAir 990's demise, it does little to explain the motive the
co-pilot had for committing mass murder and suicide. On top of that, the handling
of the situation by both the government of the United States as well as Egypt
is revealing for its bungling and political motivations. Therefore, an examination
of the various theories and their illumination of strange coincidences, as well
as the cultural, political and religious factors involved, provide those interested
in conspiracy theory with plenty of insights, not just regarding U.S. and Egypt
policy, but the creation and function of conspiracy theory as an avenue of civic
participation.
## [on to the
THEORIES](missile.html)or
[HOME](index.html)
---
##### Sources:
##### 1) <http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/04/egyptair.04/>
2) <http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm>
3) <http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/11/langewiesche.htm>
4) <http://hometown.aol.com/bardonia/egyptair.htm>
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ###### ©
> > > > > > > > > > > 2003 Jacob Lunow. All rights revered, all wrongs
> > > > > > > > > > > reversed. Prohibited where void.Certain restrictions
> > > > > > > > > > > may apply. Use as directed by physician. May cause
> > > > > > > > > > > headaches, diarrhea, nausea. TX, NJ, CT, Puerto Rico
> > > > > > > > > > > & Guam may not be eligible to participate. May contain
> > > > > > > > > > > partially hydrogenated vegetable oil and/or lard.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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>
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<h1>Glossary</h1>
<p align="left"><b>Amniote </b>-‭ ‬A
tetrapod vertebrate that has eggs that can be laid on land removing the
need to return to the water for spawning.‭ ‬Also the young hatch out
formed like if not the same as the parents,‭ ‬bypassing the larval
stage commonly seen in amphibians.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Amphibian </b>-‭
‬A creature that can exist in both land and water and will often share
its time between the two.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Amphibious </b>Displaying
the ability to live both in water and on the land,‭ ‬although this term
is not exclusive to amphibians.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Ankylosaur </b>-‭
‬Any of the members of ankylosauria,‭ ‬the armoured group of
ornithiscian dinosaurs that appeared from the Jurassic to the
Cretaceous.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Apex Predator </b>-
An
apex predator is one that appears at the top of the food chain.‭
‬Usually they have no predators except possibly other and larger
members of their own species.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Bipedal </b>-‭ ‬A
creature that primarily walks on two legs.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Cannibalism </b>–
The act of one creature eating another of its own species.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Carnivore </b>-‭
‬A creature that feeds on other animals.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Ceratopsian </b>-‭
‬A group of dinosaurs that are characterised by having frills around
their necks.‭ ‬They include dinosaurs such as Einiosaurus,‭
‬Protoceratops and Zuniceratops.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Cetacean </b>– A
group of mammals that include dolphins, porpoises and whales.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Chordata </b>-‭
‬The phylum that all vertebrates belong too.‭ ‬A small number of
invertebrates also belong to this group.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Coprolite </b>-‭
‬Coprolites are fossilised dung.‭ ‬They offer valuable insights into
the diets of ancient animals,‭ ‬and can even come up with the
fossilised remains of animals that had been eaten by predators.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Crocodilian </b>-‭
‬A term used to describe features that are similar to crocodiles,‭
‬such as skin or jaws.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Diapsid </b>-‭
‬Reptiles that have two holes that form the temporal fenestra in their
skulls.‭ ‬Diapsid means‭ '‬two arches‭’‬.‭ ‬They first appeared‭ ‬300‭
‬million years ago and today they include the birds,‭ ‬crocodiles,‭
‬lizards,‭ ‬snakes and tuatara.‭ ‬</p>
<p align="left"><b>Digitigrade </b>–
This is where the metatarsals (foot bones) are arranged in a way to
extend the length of the lower leg, providing more spring and a faster
running gait. This is the opposite of plantigrade.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Dinosaur </b>-‭
‬Any of the animals that belong to the Dinosauria group.</p>
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</script><br>
<p align="left"><b>Dorsal </b>-‭ ‬A
descriptive word used when in reference to the back of an animal.‭ ‬For
example,‭ ‬Dimetrodon had dorsal spines that formed a sail on its back.</p>
<p align="left"><b>et al </b>-‭ ‬An
abbreviation used to mean‭ '‬and others‭'‬.‭ ‬This is commonly used
when someone names a creature also had assistance from others too
numerous to name in frequent usage.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Femur </b>-‭ ‬The
thighbone in animals.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Fenestrae </b>-‭
‬The openings inside of a skull that generally allow for the placement
of soft tissues and organs such as eyes.‭ ‬There can be great variety
in size and proportion from one species to another depending upon
evolutional adaptations.‬</p>
<p align="left"><b>Gastrolith </b>-‭
‬Gastroliths are stones swallowed by animals to aid with the digestive
process.‭ ‬They work by grinding plant matter inside of the stomach and
are often found in animals that lack the ability to chew their food in
their mouths.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Genus </b>-‭ ‬A
word used to describe an animal species,‭ ‬but can be further broken
down to sub-species.‭ ‬Example‭; ‬A Stegosaurus Stenops and a
Stegosaurus ungulatus are slightly different to one another,‭ ‬but are
both classed as Stegosaurus,‭ ‬and as such fall under the same genus.‭
‬A Kentrosaurus on the other hand is a stegosaur,‭ ‬but different from
Stegosaurus itself and as such is given its own genus that is different
from Stegosaurus.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Gigantothermy </b>-‭
‬Gigantothermy is a term which is used to describe animals that are for
lack of a better term cold blooded,‭ ‬but are more easily able to
maintain a high body temperature due to the fact that they have a
smaller body surface area to volume ratio.‭ ‬This is often seen in
larger cold blooded animals today,‭ ‬and is thought by many to be
applicable to extinct animals such as the larger dinosaurs,‭ ‬giving
them a metabolism approaching that of a warm blooded creature.‭
‬Gigantothermy is also referred to as ectothermic homeothermy.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Gondwana </b>-‭ ‬A
supercontinent that was formed from the southern half of the Pangaea
supercontinent.‭ ‬It was composed of modern day,‭ ‬South America,‭
‬Africa,‭ ‬Arabian Peninsula,‭ ‬Indian sub-continent,‭ ‬Australia,‭
‬and Antarctica.‭ ‬</p>
<p align="left"><b>Herbivore </b>-‭
‬A creature that feeds upon plants.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Holotype </b>– A
specimen of an organism that was used in the identification and naming
of a species. Further recovered examples of a species are examined
against the description of the holotype to see if they represent the
same creature.</p>
<p align="left"><b>ICZN </b>–
International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. The ICZN governs
the naming of animals, making sure that no two animals may have the
same name.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Insectivore </b>-‭
‬A carnivore that specialises in eating insects.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Juvenile </b>-‭ ‬A
juvenile is a younger sexually immature specimen of an organism.‭ ‬An
organism ceases to be juvenile when it grows to full size and sexual
maturity.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Keystone species </b>-‭
‬This is term used to refer to animals that have a big impact upon
their environment,‭ ‬and if said species disappears the environment
will change.‭ ‬For example,‭ ‬it can be used to refer to a predator
that keeps the number of environment damaging herbivores down.‭
‬Another example would be a low browsing herbivore that prevents trees
from growing tall,‭ ‬maintaining grassy plains.‭ ‬</p>
<p align="left"><b>Labyrinthodont </b>-‭
‬A member of Labyrinthodontia‭ (‬maze toothed‭) ‬group of amphibians.‭
‬Terrestrial vertebrates today are considered to be descended from them.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Laurasia </b>-‭ ‬A
supercontinent that was formed from the northern half of the Pangaea
supercontinent.‭ ‬It was composed of modern day North America and
Eurasia.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Locomotion </b>–
The process of how an organism moves itself from one location to
another.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Marine </b>-‭
‬Term used to describe organisms that are aquatic.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Mesozoic </b>-‭
‬The geological era that is composed of the Triassic,‭ ‬Jurassic and
Cretaceous periods,‭ ‬notable for the evolution and extinction of the
dinosaurs.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Nomen dubium </b>-‭
‬Latin for doubtful name.‭ ‬This term is sometimes used for animals
that cannot be definitively proven to belong to a certain group.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Omnivore </b>-‭ ‬A
creature that can eat both animals and plants.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Organism </b>-‭ ‬A
living thing such as an animal,‭ ‬plant,‭ ‬fungus or micro-organism.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Ornithischian </b>-‭
‬Used to reference a dinosaur that is a member of the ornithischia,‭
‬or‭ ‘‬bird hipped‭’ ‬group of dinosaurs.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Osteoderm </b>-‭
‬A bony growth found in the skin of some animals and sometimes referred
to as a‭ ‘‬scute‭’‬.‭ ‬They can form anything from specialised scales
to defensive armour.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Oviparous </b>– A
creature that lays eggs which then hatch outside the body. The opposite
to viviparous.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Palaeobotany </b>–
The study of ancient plants.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Palaeontology </b>–
The study of ancient organisms.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Palaeopathology </b>–
The study of how a fossilised animal died, but also encompassing the
study of injuries, if they healed, and what impact they had on the
creature.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Palaeozoic </b>-‭
‬The Palaeozoic is a geological era that predated the Mesozoic.‭ ‬It is
comprised of the Permian,‭ ‬Carboniferous,‭ ‬Devonian,‭ ‬Silurian,‭
‬Ordovician and Cambrian stages.‭ ‬The Palaeozoic marked a great
diversification in life forms,‭ ‬including the first terrestrial life.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Pangaea </b>-‭
‬The supercontinent that existed when all of the world’s landmasses
were joined together to form a single land mass.‭ ‬Eventually Pangaea
broke up with tectonic plate movement that would go onto form the world
as we know it today.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Pelagic </b>- Term
used to reference organisms that typically live in areas of open water
as opposed to coastal locations.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Petrification </b>-‭
‬This is a fossilisations process where silica impregnates organic
material,‭ ‬converting it to stone.‭ ‬All organisms can be petrified,‭
‬but wood is especially susceptible to this process.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Piscivore </b>-
‭‬A
carnivore that specialises in the eating of fish.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Plantigrade </b>–
This is a foot arrangement where the metatarsals (foot bones) are in
contact with the ground. This is the opposite of digitigrade.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Proto feathers </b>-‭
‬These are filament hair
structures that are generally considered to have evolved for the
purpose of insulation.‭ ‬Because proto feathers would be more downy
than developed with a rigid rachis,‭ ‬they were not capable of
producing lift to allow a creature to fly.‭ ‬They would however allow
for the eventual evolution of flight capable feathers that we see in
most modern birds today.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Pterosaur </b>-‭
‬Any of the flying reptiles of the Mesozoic Era.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Pycnofibres </b>-‭
‬Hair like filaments that
are found on the bodies of some pterosaurs.‭ ‬Although pycnofibres are
not like the hair seen in mammals,‭ ‬they still served as insulation.‭ ‬</p>
<p align="left"><b>Recurved teeth </b>–
Teeth that curve backwards towards the throat. These teeth help prevent
food from moving forwards and out of the mouth, and can be commonly
found in predatory animals.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Saurischian </b>-‭
‬Used to reference a
dinosaur that is a member of the saurischia,‭ ‬or‭ ‘‬lizard hipped‭’
‬group of dinosaurs.‭ ‬It is actually from this group that birds are
thought to have evolved from as opposed to the ornithiscia.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Sauropoda </b>– A
group of dinosaurs known for having extremely long necks and a
quadrupedal stance.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Scleral rings </b>-‭
‬These are growths of
cartilage or bone that form rings inside of the eyes,‭ ‬helping to keep
its shape.‭ ‬They are commonly found in fish,‭ ‬reptiles and birds,‭
‬and fossilised scleral rings can help accurately determine the size of
the eyes in extinct animals that had them.</p>
<br>
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<br>
<p align="left"><b>Scute </b>-‭ ‬See‭
‘‬Osteoderm‭’‬.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Subadult </b>-‭ ‬A
subadult is a juvenile that is becoming sexually mature,‭ ‬but may not
yet be fully grown.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Synonym </b>-‭ ‬A
synonym is another name for
an existing creature that has already been named.‭ ‬Example‭;
‬Apatosaurus‭ (‬1877‭) ‬and Brontosaurus‭ (‬1879‭) ‬were once
considered two separate species.‭ ‬When further study showed them to be
the same creature,‭ ‬the older name of Apatosaurus replaced
Brontosaurus as the species name.‭ ‬Apatosaurus is now used as the name
for this creature,‭ ‬but Brontosaurus is retained as a synonym,‭ ‬so
that older texts referencing this animal are not misunderstood as
talking about a separate species.‭ ‬This also prevents Brontosaurus
from being reused and creating even more confusion.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Terrestrial </b>-‭
‬Term used to refer to organisms that live on the land.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Tetrapod </b>-‭
‬Four limbed vertebrates.‭ ‬On this site the term is usually applied to
the early terrestrial amphibians.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Theropod </b>-‭ ‬A
group of bipedal dinosaurs that belong to the saurischia group.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Type species </b>–
The type creature for defining a genus. Multiple species may be
assigned to a genus, but the type species is used as the defining guide
as to whether a new discovery is assigned to an existing genus, or
assigned to a new genus of its own.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Quadrupedal </b>-‭
‬Animals that primarily walk upon all four legs.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Vomeronasal organ‭ (‬Jacobsan
organ‭)‬ </b>-‭ ‬Is an auxiliary olfactory‭ (‬smell‭)
‬organ.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Viviparous </b>-‭
‬A term used to describe animals that give birth to live young as
opposed to laying eggs. The opposite to oviparous.</p>
<p align="left"><b>Wastebasket Genus </b>-‭
‬A term used for when
animals are not known to fit in exactly to an existing group so they
are‭ ‘‬dumped‭’ ‬into a more generic group where they remain until
further study can determine where they belong.‭ ‬Many early fossils of
dinosaurs especially suffered from this.</p>
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Glossary
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# Glossary
**Amniote**- A
tetrapod vertebrate that has eggs that can be laid on land removing the
need to return to the water for spawning. Also the young hatch out
formed like if not the same as the parents, bypassing the larval
stage commonly seen in amphibians.
**Amphibian**-
A creature that can exist in both land and water and will often share
its time between the two.
**Amphibious**Displaying
the ability to live both in water and on the land, although this term
is not exclusive to amphibians.
**Ankylosaur**-
Any of the members of ankylosauria, the armoured group of
ornithiscian dinosaurs that appeared from the Jurassic to the
Cretaceous.
**Apex Predator**-
An
apex predator is one that appears at the top of the food chain.
Usually they have no predators except possibly other and larger
members of their own species.
**Bipedal**- A
creature that primarily walks on two legs.
**Cannibalism**–
The act of one creature eating another of its own species.
**Carnivore**-
A creature that feeds on other animals.
**Ceratopsian**-
A group of dinosaurs that are characterised by having frills around
their necks. They include dinosaurs such as Einiosaurus,
Protoceratops and Zuniceratops.
**Cetacean**– A
group of mammals that include dolphins, porpoises and whales.
**Chordata**-
The phylum that all vertebrates belong too. A small number of
invertebrates also belong to this group.
**Coprolite**-
Coprolites are fossilised dung. They offer valuable insights into
the diets of ancient animals, and can even come up with the
fossilised remains of animals that had been eaten by predators.
**Crocodilian**-
A term used to describe features that are similar to crocodiles,
such as skin or jaws.
**Diapsid**-
Reptiles that have two holes that form the temporal fenestra in their
skulls. Diapsid means 'two arches’. They first appeared 300
million years ago and today they include the birds, crocodiles,
lizards, snakes and tuatara.
**Digitigrade**–
This is where the metatarsals (foot bones) are arranged in a way to
extend the length of the lower leg, providing more spring and a faster
running gait. This is the opposite of plantigrade.
**Dinosaur**-
Any of the animals that belong to the Dinosauria group.
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**Dorsal**- A
descriptive word used when in reference to the back of an animal. For
example, Dimetrodon had dorsal spines that formed a sail on its back.
**et al**- An
abbreviation used to mean 'and others'. This is commonly used
when someone names a creature also had assistance from others too
numerous to name in frequent usage.
**Femur**- The
thighbone in animals.
**Fenestrae**-
The openings inside of a skull that generally allow for the placement
of soft tissues and organs such as eyes. There can be great variety
in size and proportion from one species to another depending upon
evolutional adaptations.
**Gastrolith**-
Gastroliths are stones swallowed by animals to aid with the digestive
process. They work by grinding plant matter inside of the stomach and
are often found in animals that lack the ability to chew their food in
their mouths.
**Genus**- A
word used to describe an animal species, but can be further broken
down to sub-species. Example; A Stegosaurus Stenops and a
Stegosaurus ungulatus are slightly different to one another, but are
both classed as Stegosaurus, and as such fall under the same genus.
A Kentrosaurus on the other hand is a stegosaur, but different from
Stegosaurus itself and as such is given its own genus that is different
from Stegosaurus.
**Gigantothermy**-
Gigantothermy is a term which is used to describe animals that are for
lack of a better term cold blooded, but are more easily able to
maintain a high body temperature due to the fact that they have a
smaller body surface area to volume ratio. This is often seen in
larger cold blooded animals today, and is thought by many to be
applicable to extinct animals such as the larger dinosaurs, giving
them a metabolism approaching that of a warm blooded creature.
Gigantothermy is also referred to as ectothermic homeothermy.
**Gondwana**- A
supercontinent that was formed from the southern half of the Pangaea
supercontinent. It was composed of modern day, South America,
Africa, Arabian Peninsula, Indian sub-continent, Australia,
and Antarctica.
**Herbivore**-
A creature that feeds upon plants.
**Holotype**– A
specimen of an organism that was used in the identification and naming
of a species. Further recovered examples of a species are examined
against the description of the holotype to see if they represent the
same creature.
**ICZN**–
International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. The ICZN governs
the naming of animals, making sure that no two animals may have the
same name.
**Insectivore**-
A carnivore that specialises in eating insects.
**Juvenile**- A
juvenile is a younger sexually immature specimen of an organism. An
organism ceases to be juvenile when it grows to full size and sexual
maturity.
**Keystone species**-
This is term used to refer to animals that have a big impact upon
their environment, and if said species disappears the environment
will change. For example, it can be used to refer to a predator
that keeps the number of environment damaging herbivores down.
Another example would be a low browsing herbivore that prevents trees
from growing tall, maintaining grassy plains.
**Labyrinthodont**-
A member of Labyrinthodontia (maze toothed) group of amphibians.
Terrestrial vertebrates today are considered to be descended from them.
**Laurasia**- A
supercontinent that was formed from the northern half of the Pangaea
supercontinent. It was composed of modern day North America and
Eurasia.
**Locomotion**–
The process of how an organism moves itself from one location to
another.
**Marine**-
Term used to describe organisms that are aquatic.
**Mesozoic**-
The geological era that is composed of the Triassic, Jurassic and
Cretaceous periods, notable for the evolution and extinction of the
dinosaurs.
**Nomen dubium**-
Latin for doubtful name. This term is sometimes used for animals
that cannot be definitively proven to belong to a certain group.
**Omnivore**- A
creature that can eat both animals and plants.
**Organism**- A
living thing such as an animal, plant, fungus or micro-organism.
**Ornithischian**-
Used to reference a dinosaur that is a member of the ornithischia,
or ‘bird hipped’ group of dinosaurs.
**Osteoderm**-
A bony growth found in the skin of some animals and sometimes referred
to as a ‘scute’. They can form anything from specialised scales
to defensive armour.
**Oviparous**– A
creature that lays eggs which then hatch outside the body. The opposite
to viviparous.
**Palaeobotany**–
The study of ancient plants.
**Palaeontology**–
The study of ancient organisms.
**Palaeopathology**–
The study of how a fossilised animal died, but also encompassing the
study of injuries, if they healed, and what impact they had on the
creature.
**Palaeozoic**-
The Palaeozoic is a geological era that predated the Mesozoic. It is
comprised of the Permian, Carboniferous, Devonian, Silurian,
Ordovician and Cambrian stages. The Palaeozoic marked a great
diversification in life forms, including the first terrestrial life.
**Pangaea**-
The supercontinent that existed when all of the world’s landmasses
were joined together to form a single land mass. Eventually Pangaea
broke up with tectonic plate movement that would go onto form the world
as we know it today.
**Pelagic**- Term
used to reference organisms that typically live in areas of open water
as opposed to coastal locations.
**Petrification**-
This is a fossilisations process where silica impregnates organic
material, converting it to stone. All organisms can be petrified,
but wood is especially susceptible to this process.
**Piscivore**-
A
carnivore that specialises in the eating of fish.
**Plantigrade**–
This is a foot arrangement where the metatarsals (foot bones) are in
contact with the ground. This is the opposite of digitigrade.
**Proto feathers**-
These are filament hair
structures that are generally considered to have evolved for the
purpose of insulation. Because proto feathers would be more downy
than developed with a rigid rachis, they were not capable of
producing lift to allow a creature to fly. They would however allow
for the eventual evolution of flight capable feathers that we see in
most modern birds today.
**Pterosaur**-
Any of the flying reptiles of the Mesozoic Era.
**Pycnofibres**-
Hair like filaments that
are found on the bodies of some pterosaurs. Although pycnofibres are
not like the hair seen in mammals, they still served as insulation.
**Recurved teeth**–
Teeth that curve backwards towards the throat. These teeth help prevent
food from moving forwards and out of the mouth, and can be commonly
found in predatory animals.
**Saurischian**-
Used to reference a
dinosaur that is a member of the saurischia, or ‘lizard hipped’
group of dinosaurs. It is actually from this group that birds are
thought to have evolved from as opposed to the ornithiscia.
**Sauropoda**– A
group of dinosaurs known for having extremely long necks and a
quadrupedal stance.
**Scleral rings**-
These are growths of
cartilage or bone that form rings inside of the eyes, helping to keep
its shape. They are commonly found in fish, reptiles and birds,
and fossilised scleral rings can help accurately determine the size of
the eyes in extinct animals that had them.
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**Scute**- See
‘Osteoderm’.
**Subadult**- A
subadult is a juvenile that is becoming sexually mature, but may not
yet be fully grown.
**Synonym**- A
synonym is another name for
an existing creature that has already been named. Example;
Apatosaurus (1877) and Brontosaurus (1879) were once
considered two separate species. When further study showed them to be
the same creature, the older name of Apatosaurus replaced
Brontosaurus as the species name. Apatosaurus is now used as the name
for this creature, but Brontosaurus is retained as a synonym, so
that older texts referencing this animal are not misunderstood as
talking about a separate species. This also prevents Brontosaurus
from being reused and creating even more confusion.
**Terrestrial**-
Term used to refer to organisms that live on the land.
**Tetrapod**-
Four limbed vertebrates. On this site the term is usually applied to
the early terrestrial amphibians.
**Theropod**- A
group of bipedal dinosaurs that belong to the saurischia group.
**Type species**–
The type creature for defining a genus. Multiple species may be
assigned to a genus, but the type species is used as the defining guide
as to whether a new discovery is assigned to an existing genus, or
assigned to a new genus of its own.
**Quadrupedal**-
Animals that primarily walk upon all four legs.
**Vomeronasal organ (Jacobsan
organ)**- Is an auxiliary olfactory (smell)
organ.
**Viviparous**-
A term used to describe animals that give birth to live young as
opposed to laying eggs. The opposite to oviparous.
**Wastebasket Genus**-
A term used for when
animals are not known to fit in exactly to an existing group so they
are ‘dumped’ into a more generic group where they remain until
further study can determine where they belong. Many early fossils of
dinosaurs especially suffered from this.
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Yakeo - Calculatrice en ligne
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| --- | --- |
|
Calculatrice
| |
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<h1>The Circle of the Dragon</h1>
<p><img src='/images/circleofthedragon.jpg' width='400' height='394' alt='The Circle of the Dragon: Unlock the mystery...' /></p>
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<a href='http://www.blackdrago.com/' title="The Circle of the Dragon">www.blackdrago.com</a><br />
<a href='http://www.circleofthedragon.com/' title="The Circle of the Dragon">www.circleofthedragon.com</a>
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<h3 class='sectionTitle'>Updates</h3>
<p>
<strong>9 October 2016</strong><br />
The <a href='/fame.htm' title='Dragons of Fame'>Dragons of Fame</a> section was updated; the <a href='/fame/yu.htm' title='Yu the Great'>Yu the Great</a> entry has been updated. The following <a href='/species.htm' title='Dragon Species'>Dragon Species</a> entries have been updated:
</p>
<ul>
<li><a href='/species/aijo.htm' title='Aiatar'>Aiatar</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/aijo.htm' title='Aijatar'>Aijatar</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/aijo.htm' title='Aijo'>Aijo</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/aitvaras.htm' title='Aitvaras'>Aitvaras</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/aijo.htm' title='Ajatar'>Ajatar</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/aijo.htm' title='Ajattara'>Ajattara</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Azure Snake'>Azure Snake</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/kaukas.htm' title='Barstukas'>Barstukas</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Bashe'>Bashe</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Blue Snake'>Blue Snake</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/kaukas.htm' title='Bezdukas'>Bezdukas</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Cyonoeides'> Cyonoeides </a></li>
<li><a href='/species/kaukas.htm' title='Kaukas'>Kaukas</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/kaukas.htm' title='Krukis'>Krukis</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Pa Snake'>Pa Snake</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/kaukas.htm' title='Parstukas'>Parstukas</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/pasnake.htm' title='Pashe'>Pashe</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/zaltys.htm' title='Zalktis'>Zalktis</a></li>
<li><a href='/species/zaltys.htm' title='Zaltys'>Zaltys (Žaltys)</a></li>
</ul>
<p>
<strong>8 November 2014</strong><br />
Both the <a href='/biblio_full.htm' title='Bibliography'>bibliography</a> and the article on <a href='/history/ninedragonscroll.htm' title='The Nine Dragon Scroll'>The Nine Dragon Scroll</a> have been updated.
</p>
<p>
The <a href='/species.htm' title='Dragon Species'>Dragon Species</a> section has three new entries on <a href='/species/boa.htm' title='Boa'>Boa</a>, <a href='/species/uwabami.htm' title='Uwabami'>Uwabami</a>, and <a href='/species/vouivre.htm' title='Vouivre'>Vouivre</a>. New entries have been added to the <a href='/slayers.htm' title='Dragon Slayer'>Dragon Slayer</a> section: <a href='/slayers/wadaheita.htm' title='Wada Heita Tanenaga'>Wada Heita Tanenaga</a> and <a href='/slayers/tokoyo.htm' title='Tokoyo'>Tokoyo</a>.
</p>
<p>
Also, the following <a href='fame.htm' title='Dragons of Fame'>Dragons of Fame</a> articles have been updated:
</p>
<table style='width: 95%;'>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style='vertical-align: top; width: 33%'>
<ul>
<li><a href='/fame/ahriman.htm' title='Ahriman'>Ahriman</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/aidohwedo.htm' title='Aido Hwedo'>Aido Hwedo</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/akhekhu.htm' title='Akhekhu'>Akhekhu</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/ammut.htm' title='Ammut'>Ammut</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/ananta.htm' title='Ananta Sesha'>Ananta Sesha</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/apalala.htm' title='Apalala'>Apalala</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/apep.htm' title='Apophis'>Apophis</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/apsu.htm' title='Apsu'>Apsu</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/asdeev.htm' title='Asdeev'>Asdeev</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/ayida.htm' title='Ayida'>Ayida</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/azidahaka.htm' title='Azidahaka'>Azidahaka</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/basha.htm' title='Beixi'>Beixi</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/baxia.htm' title='Baxia'>Baxia</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/beishe.htm' title='Haoxian'>Haoxian</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/bel.htm' title='Bel'>Bel</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/bian.htm' title='Bian'>Bian</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/bixi.htm' title='Bixi'>Bixi</a></li>
</ul>
</td>
<td style='vertical-align: top; width: 34%'>
<ul>
<li><a href='/fame/cetus.htm' title='Cetus'>Cetus</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/chaofeng.htm' title='Chaofeng'>Chaofeng</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/chimera.htm' title='Chimera'>Chimera</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/chiwen.htm' title='Chiwen'>Chiwen</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/damballah.htm' title='Damballah'>Damballah</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/denwen.htm' title='Denwen'>Denwen</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/guita.htm' title='Guita'>Guita</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/humbaba.htm' title='Humbaba'>Humbaba</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/hydra.htm' title='Lernaean Hydra'>Lernaean Hydra</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/illuyankas.htm' title='Illuyankas'>Illuyankas</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/jiaotu.htm' title='Jiaotu'>Jiaotu</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/kur.htm' title='Kur'>Kur</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/mehen.htm' title='Mehen'>Mehen</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/nehebkau.htm' title='Nehebkau'>Nehebkau</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/pailung.htm' title='Pai Lung'>Pai Lung</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/paiste.htm' title='Paiste'>Paiste</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/pekehaua.htm' title='Pekehaua'>Pekehaua</a></li>
</ul>
</td>
<td style='vertical-align: top; width: 33%'>
<ul>
<li><a href='/fame/pulao.htm' title='Pulao'>Pulao</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/python.htm' title='Python'>Python</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/qiuniu.htm' title='Qiuniu'>Qiuniu</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/suani.htm' title='Suanmi'>Suanmi</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/taotieh.htm' title='Taotie'>Taotie</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/tiamat.htm' title='Tiamat'>Tiamat</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/typhon.htm' title='Typhon'>Typhon</a></li>
<li><a href="/fame/uwibami.htm" title="Heita's Uwabami">Heita's Uwabami</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/wadjet.htm' title='Wadjet'>Wadjet</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/yazi.htm' title='Yazi'>Yazi</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/zhayu.htm' title='Zhayu'>Zhayu</a></li>
<li><a href='/fame/zu.htm' title='Zu'>Zu</a></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="righttext"><a href="/oldnews.htm" title='Previous Updates'>Previous Updates</a></p><!-- end .righttext -->
<div class="barClass"><img src="/elements/bar.gif" class="separatorImage" alt="Separator" /></div><!-- end .barClass -->
<p>
In different parts of the world, the word dragon carries different connotation. Some claim the
creature is an evil being sent by the Great Evil to harm mankind. Others tell tales about
benevolent dragons who sacrificed themselves to save humans or promote fertility. Both disaster
and bounty have followed in their wakes.
</p>
<p>
In the modern world, dragons have spread as a wild fire; both through the internet and through
books, they've grown. Out of all the creatures in mythology, the dragon is one of the most
present. Where did this creature come from? Why do so many mythologies tell the tale of at
least one dragon?
</p>
<p>
This site is here to help you unlock the mystery of the dragon, and I hope it can be informative
as well as entertaining. To begin, select one of the menu items from the side bar on the right.
</p>
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This web site is rated at 14 for slightly offensive material. Parents and teachers should be
warned that this site contains stories from mythology, history, and folklore, some of which are
quite violent and/or contain adult themes. This site also contains information from subjects
like alchemy, which can be offensive to some readers.
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If you are a parent or teacher reviewing materials for children or students under 13, please be
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This document was printed from The Circle of the Dragon <http://www.blackdrago.com/>. All content and design © Kylie 'drago' McCormick, 2000-present.
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<strong>Source</strong>: The Circle of the Dragon<br />
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The Circle of the Dragon - Dragon and Serpent History and Mystery
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Welcome to
# The Circle of the Dragon
[www.blackdrago.com](http://www.blackdrago.com/ "The Circle of the Dragon")
[www.circleofthedragon.com](http://www.circleofthedragon.com/ "The Circle of the Dragon")
### Updates
**9 October 2016**
The [Dragons of Fame](/fame.htm "Dragons of Fame") section was updated; the [Yu the Great](/fame/yu.htm "Yu the Great") entry has been updated. The following [Dragon Species](/species.htm "Dragon Species") entries have been updated:
* [Aiatar](/species/aijo.htm "Aiatar")
* [Aijatar](/species/aijo.htm "Aijatar")
* [Aijo](/species/aijo.htm "Aijo")
* [Aitvaras](/species/aitvaras.htm "Aitvaras")
* [Ajatar](/species/aijo.htm "Ajatar")
* [Ajattara](/species/aijo.htm "Ajattara")
* [Azure Snake](/species/pasnake.htm "Azure Snake")
* [Barstukas](/species/kaukas.htm "Barstukas")
* [Bashe](/species/pasnake.htm "Bashe")
* [Blue Snake](/species/pasnake.htm "Blue Snake")
* [Bezdukas](/species/kaukas.htm "Bezdukas")
* [Cyonoeides](/species/pasnake.htm "Cyonoeides")
* [Kaukas](/species/kaukas.htm "Kaukas")
* [Krukis](/species/kaukas.htm "Krukis")
* [Pa Snake](/species/pasnake.htm "Pa Snake")
* [Parstukas](/species/kaukas.htm "Parstukas")
* [Pashe](/species/pasnake.htm "Pashe")
* [Zalktis](/species/zaltys.htm "Zalktis")
* [Zaltys (Žaltys)](/species/zaltys.htm "Zaltys")
**8 November 2014**
Both the [bibliography](/biblio_full.htm "Bibliography") and the article on [The Nine Dragon Scroll](/history/ninedragonscroll.htm "The Nine Dragon Scroll") have been updated.
The [Dragon Species](/species.htm "Dragon Species") section has three new entries on [Boa](/species/boa.htm "Boa"), [Uwabami](/species/uwabami.htm "Uwabami"), and [Vouivre](/species/vouivre.htm "Vouivre"). New entries have been added to the [Dragon Slayer](/slayers.htm "Dragon Slayer") section: [Wada Heita Tanenaga](/slayers/wadaheita.htm "Wada Heita Tanenaga") and [Tokoyo](/slayers/tokoyo.htm "Tokoyo").
Also, the following [Dragons of Fame](fame.htm "Dragons of Fame") articles have been updated:
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| * [Ahriman](/fame/ahriman.htm "Ahriman")
* [Aido Hwedo](/fame/aidohwedo.htm "Aido Hwedo")
* [Akhekhu](/fame/akhekhu.htm "Akhekhu")
* [Ammut](/fame/ammut.htm "Ammut")
* [Ananta Sesha](/fame/ananta.htm "Ananta Sesha")
* [Apalala](/fame/apalala.htm "Apalala")
* [Apophis](/fame/apep.htm "Apophis")
* [Apsu](/fame/apsu.htm "Apsu")
* [Asdeev](/fame/asdeev.htm "Asdeev")
* [Ayida](/fame/ayida.htm "Ayida")
* [Azidahaka](/fame/azidahaka.htm "Azidahaka")
* [Beixi](/fame/basha.htm "Beixi")
* [Baxia](/fame/baxia.htm "Baxia")
* [Haoxian](/fame/beishe.htm "Haoxian")
* [Bel](/fame/bel.htm "Bel")
* [Bian](/fame/bian.htm "Bian")
* [Bixi](/fame/bixi.htm "Bixi")
| * [Cetus](/fame/cetus.htm "Cetus")
* [Chaofeng](/fame/chaofeng.htm "Chaofeng")
* [Chimera](/fame/chimera.htm "Chimera")
* [Chiwen](/fame/chiwen.htm "Chiwen")
* [Damballah](/fame/damballah.htm "Damballah")
* [Denwen](/fame/denwen.htm "Denwen")
* [Guita](/fame/guita.htm "Guita")
* [Humbaba](/fame/humbaba.htm "Humbaba")
* [Lernaean Hydra](/fame/hydra.htm "Lernaean Hydra")
* [Illuyankas](/fame/illuyankas.htm "Illuyankas")
* [Jiaotu](/fame/jiaotu.htm "Jiaotu")
* [Kur](/fame/kur.htm "Kur")
* [Mehen](/fame/mehen.htm "Mehen")
* [Nehebkau](/fame/nehebkau.htm "Nehebkau")
* [Pai Lung](/fame/pailung.htm "Pai Lung")
* [Paiste](/fame/paiste.htm "Paiste")
* [Pekehaua](/fame/pekehaua.htm "Pekehaua")
| * [Pulao](/fame/pulao.htm "Pulao")
* [Python](/fame/python.htm "Python")
* [Qiuniu](/fame/qiuniu.htm "Qiuniu")
* [Suanmi](/fame/suani.htm "Suanmi")
* [Taotie](/fame/taotieh.htm "Taotie")
* [Tiamat](/fame/tiamat.htm "Tiamat")
* [Typhon](/fame/typhon.htm "Typhon")
* [Heita's Uwabami](/fame/uwibami.htm "Heita's Uwabami")
* [Wadjet](/fame/wadjet.htm "Wadjet")
* [Yazi](/fame/yazi.htm "Yazi")
* [Zhayu](/fame/zhayu.htm "Zhayu")
* [Zu](/fame/zu.htm "Zu")
|
[Previous Updates](/oldnews.htm "Previous Updates")
In different parts of the world, the word dragon carries different connotation. Some claim the
creature is an evil being sent by the Great Evil to harm mankind. Others tell tales about
benevolent dragons who sacrificed themselves to save humans or promote fertility. Both disaster
and bounty have followed in their wakes.
In the modern world, dragons have spread as a wild fire; both through the internet and through
books, they've grown. Out of all the creatures in mythology, the dragon is one of the most
present. Where did this creature come from? Why do so many mythologies tell the tale of at
least one dragon?
This site is here to help you unlock the mystery of the dragon, and I hope it can be informative
as well as entertaining. To begin, select one of the menu items from the side bar on the right.
Counter from [BoingDragon's Lair](http://www.boingdragon.com/counters.html)
[Sign the Visitor's Book](http://www.blackdrago.com/signbook/gbook.php "Sign the Guestbook")
This web site is rated at 14 for slightly offensive material. Parents and teachers should be
warned that this site contains stories from mythology, history, and folklore, some of which are
quite violent and/or contain adult themes. This site also contains information from subjects
like alchemy, which can be offensive to some readers.
If you are a parent or teacher reviewing materials for children or students under 13, please be
certain to read each page completely before allowing them to view it.
* [Basic Information](/basicinfo.htm "Basic Information")
* [Dragons of Fame](/fame.htm "Dragons of Fame")
* [Dragon History](/hist.htm "Dragon History")
* [Dragon Mythology](/mythology.htm "Dragon Mythology")
* [Dragon Science](/science.htm "Dragon Science")
* [Dragon Theories](/theories.htm "Dragon Theories")
* [Dragon Topics](/topics.htm "Dragon Topics")
* [Dragon Artwork](/artwork.htm "Dragon Artwork")
* [Dragon Media](/media.htm "Dragon Media")
* [Interactive](/interactive.htm "Interactive")
*
* [Search](/sitesearch.htm "Search")
* [Site Index](/bookindex.htm "Side Index")
* [Site Map](/sitemap.htm "Site Map")
*
* [Contact](/contact.htm "Contact")
* [Home](/index.html "Circle of the Dragon")
[Privacy Policy](/privacy.htm "Privacy Policy") •
[Disclaimer](/disclaimer.htm "Disclaimer") •
[Contact](/contact.htm "Contact") •
[Home](/index.html "Circle of the Dragon")
[© Kylie 'drago' McCormick](/copyright.htm "Copyright")
Last updated: 9 October 2017
This document was printed from The Circle of the Dragon <http://www.blackdrago.com/>. All content and design © Kylie 'drago' McCormick, 2000-present.
**Source**: The Circle of the Dragon
**URL**: http://www.blackdrago.com/
**Author**: Kylie 'drago' McCormick
**Last updated**: 9 October 2017
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="vpc.htm">3/23/03 -- Imagine: Connectix Virtual PC for Windows</A></FONT><BR>
Amazing software that will change the way you use your PC.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="monitors.htm">4/23/02 -- Lies, Damned Lies, and CRT Monitor
Statistics</A></FONT><BR>
The truth about "viewable image size".
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="morpheus.htm">11/30/01 -- Top 10 Experiences with MusicCity
Morpheus</A></FONT><BR>
File sharing at its worst--and best.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="primenet.htm">9/9/01 -- Prime Net Hosting</A></FONT><BR>
Top-notch web hosting for $5.95 per month! Well, maybe not.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="wart.htm">5/31/01 -- $50 for a Wall Wart? No Way!</A></FONT><BR>
Just say no to ludicrous prices for AC Adapters.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="alive.htm">1/20/01 -- Are You Alive?</A></FONT><BR>
Sick of the rat race? It might be time for a midlife crisis.
<P>
<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="pi.htm">12/31/00 -- Easy as Pi</A></FONT><BR>
20 years of personal computing--benchmarked with pi!
<P>
<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="howfar.htm">11/5/00 -- How Far We've Come</A></FONT><BR>
20 years of personal computing--benchmarked with chess software!
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="lousy.htm">1/31/00 -- Lousy Compression</A></FONT><BR>
It's payback time for the music biz.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="slige.htm">12/20/99 -- Fun with SLIGE</A></FONT><BR>
Get more from this random level generator for DOOM.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="caveat.htm">12/16/99 & 1/14/2000 -- Caveat Emptor</A></FONT><BR>
My troubles with Barnes and Noble and Buy.com
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="pentium.htm">11/21/99 -- Intel Pentium with MMX</A></FONT><BR>
Old technology, but a cost effective upgrade for gamers.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="roger.htm">10/17/99 -- Roger Wilco</A></FONT><BR>
Talk to your friends while you play--if you can.
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="coop.htm">9/19/99 -- Cooperative First Person Shooters</A></FONT><BR>
ZDOOM is the best!
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<FONT SIZE=5><A HREF="voodoo3.htm">9/3/99 -- Voodoo3 2000 PCI</A></FONT><BR>
Can a new 3D graphics accelerator help an older PC run newer games?
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Rants, Raves, and Reviews<BR>
Copyright © 1999-2018 Blake Linton Wilfong<BR>
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All trademarks used in these reviews are the property of their respective owners.<BR>
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Rants, Raves, and Reviews
| | |
| --- | --- |
| |
RANTS,
RAVES,
AND
REVIEWS
by Blake Linton WilfongThe Wondersmith!
|
[3/23/03 -- Imagine: Connectix Virtual PC for Windows](vpc.htm)
Amazing software that will change the way you use your PC.
[4/23/02 -- Lies, Damned Lies, and CRT Monitor
Statistics](monitors.htm)
The truth about "viewable image size".
[11/30/01 -- Top 10 Experiences with MusicCity
Morpheus](morpheus.htm)
File sharing at its worst--and best.
[9/9/01 -- Prime Net Hosting](primenet.htm)
Top-notch web hosting for $5.95 per month! Well, maybe not.
[5/31/01 -- $50 for a Wall Wart? No Way!](wart.htm)
Just say no to ludicrous prices for AC Adapters.
[1/20/01 -- Are You Alive?](alive.htm)
Sick of the rat race? It might be time for a midlife crisis.
[12/31/00 -- Easy as Pi](pi.htm)
20 years of personal computing--benchmarked with pi!
[11/5/00 -- How Far We've Come](howfar.htm)
20 years of personal computing--benchmarked with chess software!
[1/31/00 -- Lousy Compression](lousy.htm)
It's payback time for the music biz.
[12/20/99 -- Fun with SLIGE](slige.htm)
Get more from this random level generator for DOOM.
[12/16/99 & 1/14/2000 -- Caveat Emptor](caveat.htm)
My troubles with Barnes and Noble and Buy.com
[11/21/99 -- Intel Pentium with MMX](pentium.htm)
Old technology, but a cost effective upgrade for gamers.
[10/17/99 -- Roger Wilco](roger.htm)
Talk to your friends while you play--if you can.
[9/19/99 -- Cooperative First Person Shooters](coop.htm)
ZDOOM is the best!
[9/3/99 -- Voodoo3 2000 PCI](voodoo3.htm)
Can a new 3D graphics accelerator help an older PC run newer games?
My email address is wondersmith@gmail.com. All constructive comments are
welcome, though time may not permit individual replies.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
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Copyright © 1999-2018 Blake Linton Wilfong
All rights reserved.
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All uncredited images in Rants, Raves, and Reviews are original works or
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review, comment, or criticism.
| http://wondersmith.com/rants/ |
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<div class="lpxcenterpageouter"><div class="lpxcenterpageinner"><!-- <hs:element197> --><div id="element197" style="position: absolute; top: 1783px; width: 790px; height: 1334px; z-index: 0;"><div style="height: 1320px; padding: 5px; border-width: 2px; border-color: #6C4687; border-style: solid; background-color: transparent;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size14 Arial14"><b><i>                               </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size16 Arial16"><u><b><i>WHAT'S NEW</i></b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size14 Arial14"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i> </i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>04/20/s022. New Book: </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>Chinese Traditional Religion & Temples in North America, 1849-1920: California. </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Ca. 530 pages, 351 illustrations, lots of Chinese-language refs and terms.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>08/10/2017. Just released!  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_337">Detailed new map of Chinatown in San Francisco just before the Earthquake</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, with tongs and temples. The economic and spiritual heart of Chinese America, wiped out in two terrible days. What it was like before. Part of the editors' research on Chinese religion in early North America. </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>03/24/2017.  Found in the records of San Francisco's Sam Yup [Three Counties] Association: </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_450">The Chinese Names of the Deep Creek Massacre Victims.</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Now Perhaps Their Families Can Be Traced.  </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>            </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><u><b><i>The records may be the only Chinese-language documents in San Francisco that</i></b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>                            </i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>            </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><u><b><i>survived the 1906 Earthquake</i></b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b> and Fire.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>11/29/2016. </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/Opium-3.html#anchor_67"> New data on wholesale market prices for opium in the U.S. between the 1850s and 1909</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, from Chinese-language newspapers.  The prices were surprisingly steady over the years.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>11/29/2016.  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/Opium-3.html#anchor_68">What the landmark "Chinese Opium Exclusion Act" of 1909 really prohibited</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>.  Most authorities on the subject, including Wikipedia, are wrong.  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><u><b>It dd not prohibit possession or use.</b></u><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>12-7-2015  (</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>Updated 2/29/2016</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>)  Announcing the first-ever </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_160">HISTORIC CHINESE TEMPLE CONFERENCE</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>.  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><u><b>March 12-13, 2016.</b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Marysville, CA.  To be held during Marysville's famous Bok Kai Festival and "Bomb Day."  Here are the </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_148">updated program</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_216">registration information</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>,</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_159"> bios of speakers</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> and </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_216">abstracts of presentations</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>.  As of February 29, 63 people have registered.  The capacity of the venue is 70.  </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><u><b>For July 2016</b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b>: A major conference on Chinese outside China will take place in Vancouver, organized by </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>ISSCO, the INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY OF CHINESE OVERSEAS</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, and hosted by the </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_blank" href="http://2016issco.arts.ubc.ca/">University of British Columbia</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b>,  This is only the second time that an ISSCO conference has been held in North America.  The  event will be held in Richmond, a suburb with a large Chinese-speaking population and many excellent Chinese restaurants, at the Sheraton Vancouver Airport Hotel from July 6-8, 2016.  Numerous historians and social scientists from Asia and Europe as well as the Americas will attend.</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_blank" href="http://issco.2016@ubc.ca"> </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_blank" href="http://2016issco.arts.ubc.ca/">For more information go to the UBC's ISSCO website.</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://2016issco.arts.ubc.ca/"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>10/27/2015  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_169">Yet another iron bell, in San Jose's Ng Shing Gong Temple.</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Dated 1889.  We keep thinking we have seen every North American example still in existence, but then someone shows us another one.  A nice bell</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>10/26/2015  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_618">The earliest of all surviving Chinese North American objects! </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> That is, objects made for and used by Chinese on this continent.  A simple flag rack on the altar of Weaverville's  Won LimTemple.  With a Xian Feng (å¸è± or å¸ä¸°) date: 1861!  It may not look like much, but . . .</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>10/19/2015 </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_393"> A 1864 date for "Chinese Masons"!</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Two years before Gustave Schlegel popularized the idea that Chinese secret societies and the Euro-American Freemasons might be connected, and long before the term began to be used  by the Chee Kung Tong and Bing Kung Tong.  And in, for goodness' sake, Weaverville, way off in the Trinity Alps of Northern California.  Amazing!</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>9/4/2015  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/Shrines-2.html">"The Gods of Chinese North America," an illustrated list of the principal deities, almost all of them Daoist, as worshiped by early Chinese in the United States and Canada.</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b> Of the many hundred gods and goddesses featured in the traditional folk and formal religions of China, only a handful made it across the Pacific to the New World.  They are listed here as a convenience to temple fanciers and scholars, some of whom may not be too familiar with Chinese folk beliefs, and as an advertisement for the editors' next books, on (1) the three best-preserved early Chinese temples in North America (in Marysville, Oroville, and Weaverville, not San Francisco) and on (2) historic Chinese temples in the western United States.  </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>4/15/2015   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="Property.html">A new page: historical Chinese land ownership in the U.S. and Canada</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>.  A first article introduces the subject with a fine example of legal boilerplate from the Yuba County deed books in Marysville, California, recording </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/Property.html#anchor_53">Ah Fee's and Quong Hop's purchase of land from E. W. Sawtelle in 1890</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>4/11/2015   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-Brands.html">Updated list of historic opium brand names</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, as stamped on the lids of opium cans in historical and archaeological collections, in North America and Australia.  Such cans contained ready-to-smoke opium refined in Hong Kong, Macao, Victoria BC, or Vancouver.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>4/7/2015  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/CINARC-Books.html#anchor_48">Chapter 1 of Coming Home in Gold Brocade, "Through Chinese Eyes," </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>has been added to this website.  It offers what we think is a novel perspective on early Chinese immigration.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>4/6/2015  Already in 1855, </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.homestead.com/Data-4.html#anchor_92">Chinese "coarse" ceramics were used (and valued) by the U.S. Mint in San Francisco</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, according to the first issue of </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>The Oriental</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>, the second oldest printed Chinese newspaper in America and one of the oldest anywhere.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>3/31/2015  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><a target="_self" href="CINARC-Books.html">CINARC's first book is in print.  </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i><a target="_self" href="CINARC-Books.html">Coming Home in Gold Brocade: Chinese in Early Northwest America</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>, </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>by Bennet Bronson and Chuimei Ho</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>.  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b>With lots of new data and conclusions about how and why Chinese came to the Northwest between 1788 and 1911.  It is for sale at Amazon.com.  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>Paperback.  Price:  US$12.75.  Canadian$15.96.  ISBN-13: 978-1505228021, ISBN-10: 1505228026.</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>8/28/2014.  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_305">The Fusang Question: Was this mysterious ancient kingdom (AD 599) located in the Pacific Northwest? Did early Chinese travelers visit it?</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i> No and no.  The idea that Chinese of that period visited North America is based on an 18th century mistranslation.</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element197> --><!-- <hs:element20> --><div id="element20" style="position: absolute; 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line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>The purpose of this site</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><i> and of CINARC is to encourage</i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><i>collaboration in exploring the history of Chinese in the Pacific Northwest - in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, British Columbia, and Alaska,with much of California. - between the first known arrival of Chinese in 1788 and the great changes in the regional Chinese population that followed the liberalizing of U.S. immigration laws in 1965</i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><i>. </i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12">ç¾æ´²è¥¿</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">å</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_203">è§</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12">åè£æ©æåå²<br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element8> --><!-- <hs:element23> --><div id="element23" style="position: absolute; top: 3px; z-index: 7;"><div align="left"><SCRIPT TYPE="text/javascript" SRC="~logos/Logo.js"></SCRIPT></div></div><!-- </hs:element23> --><!-- <hs:element30> --><div id="element30" style="position: absolute; top: 394px; left: 50px; width: 351px; height: 103px; z-index: 8;"><div style="height: 101px; padding: 0px; border-width: 1px; border-color: #E4DDE9; border-style: solid; background-color: #FCE9C8;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size28 LucidaSansUnicode28"><b>CINARC</b></font><font face="'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size28 LucidaSansUnicode28"> </font><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size20 ArialBlack20"> <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size20 ArialBlack20"><b>é山西åè§</b></font><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size16 ArialBlack16"><b> -</b></font><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size14 ArialBlack14"><b>åè£ç 究ä¸å¿</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size12 ArialNarrow12"><b>Chinese in Northwest America Research Committee</b><br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element30> --><!-- <hs:element36> --><div id="element36" style="position: absolute; top: 3145px; left: 78px; width: 637px; height: 902px; z-index: 9;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b>        </b></font><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size16 ArialBlack16"><b>HISTORICAL CHINESE-AMERICAN TOPICS</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="Topics.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Topics.html">Chinese Herbal Medicine in the Early Northwest </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u>æ©æ</u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u><a target="_self" href="Topics.html">è¯</a></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="Topics.html">æ¹</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"> <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    Comments on a recent news article about the remedies preserved in the Kam Wah Chung Museum <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    plus new information from the account books of a merchant and labor contractor, Chin Gee Hee<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">     a. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_230">An early herbal doctor in John Day, Oregon</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">, ca. 1890-1930<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">     b. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_231">Early herbal remedies for contract laborers in Seattle</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">, ca. 1890<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Includes cures for shingles, toothache, swollen feet, and belly button wind<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">     c. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_300">Dr. Lamb in Butte (and Dr. Ah Fong in Boise)</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">, ca. 1870-1920 </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 03/24/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="AYPE.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u><b>Chop Suey  </b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u>æç¢</u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u>  </u><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    This famous food forms an important, though not always admired, part of American culinary history.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    New research shows that it was invented in New York and that it came late to the Northwest.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  a. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_100">Origins</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  b. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_139">Rise of the Chop Suey restaurant in the U.S</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_139">.</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  c. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_203">Chinese restaurants and Chop Suey in the Pacific Northwest  </a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_203">西åè§æ©ææç¢é¤é¦</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_203"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_65">A Research Aid: Chinese Place Names in the Northwest in 1880-1890 and 1901 </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_65">ä¸æå°å</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"> <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    Historians often have trouble identifying American place names in early Chinese-language writings. <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    This section is offered as an aid to researchers, here and in China. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 12/16/09] </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="links.html">Links with Chinese-American Museums and Historical Organizations  </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="links.html">ç¸å
³ç½å</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    This will eventually include most of the U.S. and Canadian organizations that specialize in Chinese-<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    North American history. <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="History.html">The First Chinese in Northwest America? - on Vancouver Island with Captain Meares in 1788 </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="History.html">西åè§ææ©å人å¨1788å¹´ç»é温å¥å</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    A good many Chinese sailors and skilled craftsmen worked for British traders on the west coast <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    of Vancouver in the late 18th century.  The traders were collecting sea otter furs for sale in China.  <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  a. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_25">Affee and Aehaw</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  b. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_26">Does this picture show them?</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  c. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_121">The First Chinese in Washington State (also in in 1788)</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b> [07/22/09] </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  d: </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_38">Ashing, Achun and Aceun in Baltimore in 1785</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>    (Chinese sailors visited the East Coast even earlier, in 1785)<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  e. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_134">27 named Chinese seized by the Spanish on Vancouver in 1789</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[08/26/09] </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><u><b></b></u><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u><b>Smuggling Chinese Immigrants   </b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u>éæ³å
¥å¢</u><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b>     </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">For many decades, the border between British Columbia and Washington State saw intense smuggling<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    activity as well as spasmodic efforts to enforce immigration laws.  Here we present outstanding episodes<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    in the long, sometimes comic and sometimes tragic war between coast guards and border patrolmen<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    on the one hand and smugglers on the other.  While modern immigrant smugglers often belong to the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    ethnic group being smuggled, in the historic Northwest they were mostly European-Americans - sailors,<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    fishermen, farmers, police, immigration officials, and just about any other sort of white citizen who had<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    access to a boat or lived near a cross-border trail..  <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">      a. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_263">Ralph's trailblazing investigation of immigrant smuggling, 1890</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>Updated 03/11/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">      b. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_269">Annals of Northwestern smuggling 1: by sea</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Latest entry: 04/7/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">      c. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_382">Shootout at Sedro-Wooley: customs agents fight over smuggled Chinese (and opium)</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[10/28/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">      </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">d.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_87">Joking about the murder of smuggled Chinese at Deception Pass</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>0</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>2/12/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><u><b>F</b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u><b>ishing and Fish Processing</b></u></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_253"> </a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_253">æ¸ä¸</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   a. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429">Chinese fishermen In Washington Territory</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[11/10/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   b. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429">Chinese workers at Columbia River canneries</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>11/10/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   c. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429">Were Chinese fishermen greedy and irresponsible?</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[11/10/09; updated 02/08/10]</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element36> --><!-- <hs:element44> --><div id="element44" style="position: absolute; top: 9181px; left: 345px; width: 64px; height: 104px; z-index: 10;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><a target="_self" href="#top"></a><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element44> --><!-- <hs:element50> --><div id="element50" style="position: absolute; top: 7624px; left: 83px; width: 16px; height: 16px; z-index: 11;"><img height="16" width="16" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/AccentGraphics/../LayoutClipart/AccentGraphics/Accent_Sphere_Black.gif"/></div><!-- </hs:element50> --><!-- <hs:element53> --><div id="element53" style="position: absolute; top: 1034px; left: 73px; width: 656px; height: 12px; z-index: 12;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>For the latest features, click on </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i><a target="_self" href="#anchor_319">What's New</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>.  For info on (1) the CINARC logo and (2) strange rows of boxes in the text, click </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i><a target="_self" href="#anchor_54">here</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"><b>]</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element53> --><!-- <hs:element54> --><div id="element54" style="position: absolute; top: 7480px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 13;"><a name="anchor_54"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element54> --><!-- <hs:element58> --><div id="element58" style="position: absolute; top: 7516px; left: 34px; width: 16px; height: 16px; z-index: 14;"><img height="16" width="16" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/AccentGraphics/../LayoutClipart/AccentGraphics/Accent_Sphere_Black.gif"/></div><!-- </hs:element58> --><!-- <hs:element59> --><div id="element59" style="position: absolute; top: 7543px; left: 68px; width: 57px; height: 20px; z-index: 15;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><u><b>Notes</b></u></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10">:<br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element59> --><!-- <hs:element60> --><div id="element60" style="position: absolute; top: 7629px; left: 299px; width: 10px; height: 10px; z-index: 16;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="10" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td><td><img height="8" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/tp.gif"></td><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element60> --><!-- <hs:element61> --><div id="element61" style="position: absolute; top: 7629px; left: 312px; width: 10px; height: 10px; z-index: 17;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="10" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td><td><img height="8" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/tp.gif"></td><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element61> --><!-- <hs:element62> --><div id="element62" style="position: absolute; top: 7629px; left: 325px; width: 10px; height: 10px; z-index: 18;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="10" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td><td><img height="8" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/tp.gif"></td><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element62> --><!-- <hs:element63> --><div id="element63" style="position: absolute; top: 7629px; left: 338px; width: 10px; height: 10px; z-index: 19;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="10" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td><td><img height="8" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/tp.gif"></td><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="9" width="1" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000"><img height="1" width="8" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=0&g=0&b=0"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element63> --><!-- <hs:element67> --><div id="element67" style="position: absolute; top: 2px; left: 2px; width: 71px; height: 84px; z-index: 20;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 84px; width: 71px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="84" width="71" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Jin-Rainier_logo_small.jpg" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element67> --><!-- <hs:element79> --><div id="element79" style="position: absolute; top: 4080px; left: 91px; width: 665px; height: 1469px; z-index: 21;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12"><u><b>W</b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u><b>hy Chinese in the Early Pacific Northwest Died   </b></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><u>亡å½å¤©æ¶¯</u><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Historians agree that there were many deaths among Chinese sojourners in the Northwest during<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>the 19th and early 20th centuries.  However, we have little aggregated information about how many<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>died, and why.  The provincial archives preserved in Victoria, B.C., provide more complete data on early<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Chinese mortality than do records in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, or Alaska.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_110">The high Chinese suicide rate in Washington State, 1891-1907</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[NEW 01/04/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">  <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109">Violent Chinese deaths in British Columbia</a></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109">, </a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109">1879-1893</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 01/04/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">  <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_118">Causes of Chinese deaths in Washington State</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[NEW 01/09/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_49"></a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b>"</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_288">Does a Chinaman Do Your Washing? </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_288">æ¿ä½ æ´ç«çæ¯ä¸å½äººå?</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">     </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b>If so, you're not carrying out the principles of unionism"</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> This quote from a 1906 union newspaper<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    shows that the hostility of organized labor toward Chinese in Seattle even included laundries.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[03/11/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b>Secret Societies or Chinese Freemasons</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>The goal of many secret societies in China was revolution against the Manchu dynasty thast ruled the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>country.  In southern China, the most important such society was the Hongmen or Tiandihui.  In the <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Americas, renamed the Chee Kung Tong, the society and its offshoots played central roles in Chinatowns<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>during the19th century</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b> </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><i>></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_210">Should the subject be taboo?</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">ç§å¯ç¤¾ä¼å¯è°ä¸å¯è°?</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i> [10/01/09]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_229">S</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_229">ecret society secrets</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">æ©æ对ç§å¯ç¤¾ä¼çæ¥é </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/23/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_161">A 19th century secret society manual in Clinton, B.C.</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#A10EB5" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_161"> </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">å æ¿å¤§åæ¯ç天å°ä¼ä¼ç°¿</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[10/01/09]  </i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141"> </a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141">"Tianyun"--secret dates for a revolutionary cause</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141">  </a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141">'</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">天è¿' å¹´å·èåçé©å½æè¯</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[07/22/10] </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_162">Membership certificates meant for concealment</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">æ´ªé¨è´å
¬å è
°ç</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[08/13/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_206">A meeting notice you couldn't refuse</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">è§ç¾å²æä¸å°ä¼</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> [</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>08/15/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_219">The history of the Chee Kung Tong without the myths</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_219"> </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">è´å
¬å æ¥é¾å»è </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/22/10</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i>]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b>></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_270">The mother(s) of all secret societies</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/22/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b> ></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_271">The mother society puts on a new face and changes her name</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">ä»æ´ªé¨å°è´å
¬å  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/22/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b> ></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_272">The glory days of the Chee Kung Tong</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">1890年代è´å
¬å å¦æ¥å²å¤©Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/22/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_235">Sun Yat-sen and the Chee Kung Tong: as early as 1897?</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Arial9"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[09/26/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_308">Sun Yat-Sen and the "White Lily Society," 1897</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[12/17/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_294">The Chee Kung Tong and the American Masons in Helena, Montana</a></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i>  </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b><i>[12/06/10]</i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68">P</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68">rince Tsai Comes to Seattle, 1906  </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68">ææ¸
åºæ´å¤§è£:  éå½å
¬æ´æ³½æµè¥¿é
å¾</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">The visit by an Imperial Commission led by an actual prince, Tsai Tseh (or Tai Ze), improved relations<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>between European-American and Chinese-American leaders.  The commissioners were the highest-<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>ranking Chinese to visit Seattle until after World War II.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 07/22/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_99">The Chinese crew on the Great Northern's ill-fated super-ship</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>The Prince arrived on the Great Northern Railroad's steamship Dakota, then one of the two largest ships<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>on the Pacific.  As with its sister ship, the SS Minnesota, many sailors on the SS Dakota were Chinese.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[03/01/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Shrines.html">Shrines, Temples and Halls </a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size12 Tahoma12"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_261">åºå®, ä¼é¦</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1852  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_334">Found!  The oldest temple inscription in the Americas</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b> [NEW 10/19/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1857 </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_331">The earliest picture of a North (or South) American Chinese temple</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[NEW 10/15/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1866  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_90">The oldest surviving Chinese temple in North America:</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> not in San Fancisco but (perhaps) the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">   <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  temple in Marysville! </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[01/25/10]</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b>  </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1866-1892  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_378">The North God in North America</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[10/26/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1870s-1904  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_236">Suijing Bo in the Northwest: A once-obscure deity makes it big</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[07/21/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1871- now  The North God: Bi Di, Bok Dai, Bok Kai, Beuk Aie<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1874-1909  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_169">Cast iron bells in North American Chinese temples</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> 西åè§å¯ºåºçéæ³å¨Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[3/10/2010]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1875-1887  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66">The oldest Chinese temple in the Pacific Northwest:</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66"> </a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66">Victoria's Tam Kung temple</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66"> </a></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66">å æ¿ å¤§åæ¯çåå¤å©è°å
¬åºÂ </a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> A fire damaged much of the temple in the 1990s, but some of its most<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">        important antique furnishings survived which bear dates (In imperial reign years) that prove the temple<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> already existed in the 19th century. </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[11/30/2008]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1885  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_65">The CCBA's Shrine in Victoria, BC: Prestige from home-town heroes' calligraphy</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>      </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">å æ¿å¤§åå¤å©å ä¸åä¼é¦å¤§å </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> One of the finest shrines in Nortjh America features splendid <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">        calligraphy by notable persons back in China</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[12/14/2009]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1888  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_298">Lewiston's Beuk Aie Temple: A memorial to the Deep Creek massacre?</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[08/01/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">1909  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_112">The Kong Chow Temple in San Francisco: Prestige from diplomats' calligraphy</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">        </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">  ä¸è©å¸å²¡å·ä¼é¦ - æè´µæ¾èµ«é¨æ¥£  Inscriptions by the great Wu Ting Fan and others at an important<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">         center of Daoist worship</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b> [01/26/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>1911  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_209">An art nouveau landmark: The Hook Sin Tong Building in Victoria</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[05/24/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_315">Detaining Asians at Seattle's "Angel Island," 1907-1916 </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_315">èè·¯çå¤©ä½¿å² - 临æ¶ç§»æ°å®¡æ¥ç«</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">It turns out that a once-notorious detention center for Asian immigrants in Seattle still survives -- as a<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>mini-storage facility about a mile north of the city's central waterfront.  The editors visited it in the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>company of historian John R. Litz, who rediscovered it recently through archival detective work.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size8 Arial8"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[01/15/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_345">Victoria's vile detention facility</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_118">å æ¿å¤§</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_118">åå¤å©</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size12 Arial12">å人æçæ<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">In the late nineteenth century, Canada ran one of the nastiest prisons on the continent for Chinese <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>awaiting deportation and for clarification of immigration status.  Neither the U.S. nor Canada kept <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>convicted murderers under worse conditions.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>Updated </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>06/20/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_346">Port Townsend's fine but doomed detention house</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12">  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12">åçé¡¿å·</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size12 Arial12">ç µå
顺å人æçæ<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Compared with the one in Victoria, Port Townsend's facility for housing would-be Chinese immigrants<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>sounds relatively humane.  Unfortunately, it would soon be closed due to the clout of Seattle and the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Great Northern Railroad.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 04/16/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_87">Joking about the Murder of Smuggled Chinese at Deception Pass, 1880s</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Ben Ure, famed smuggler and leading citizen of Whidby Island, is reputed to have routinely drowned his<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    illegal Chinese passengers to avoid detection by the Customs Service.  Local folklore treats this as<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">    amusing.  We think it is not.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[02/12/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/aype.html#anchor_432">A New Discovery -- the Great Parade Dragon from the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition Still Exists!  </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/aype.html#anchor_432">é¾å¤´åç° - 西é
å¾1909 å¹´èµä¼æ æ ç¾å¹´é¾è</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>The dragon's well-preserved remains, no longer in working condition, have been found at the Bok Kai <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Temple in Marysville, CA.  It is the largest and most important surviving Asian artifact from the AYPE.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[02/16/09]</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element79> --><!-- <hs:element86> --><div id="element86" style="position: absolute; top: 3641px; left: 32px; width: 33px; height: 20px; z-index: 22;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element86> --><!-- <hs:element89> --><div id="element89" style="position: absolute; top: 50px; left: 177px; width: 389px; height: 25px; z-index: 23;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 25px; width: 389px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="25" width="389" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Chinese_logo.jpg" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element89> --><!-- <hs:element101> --><div id="element101" style="position: absolute; top: 7562px; left: 102px; width: 652px; height: 45px; z-index: 24;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Arial9"><i>The CINARC logo consists of  the character for "gold (</i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Arial9"><u><i>jin</i></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Arial9"><i> in Mandarin; </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Arial9"><u><i>gum</i></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Arial9"><i> in Cantonese), as written by a famous Tang Dynasty calligrapher, over an image of Mt. Rainier. just south of Seattle.  "Gold Mountain" is what the Chinese still call San Francisco and formerly called the entire west coast of the U.S. </i><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element101> --><!-- <hs:element102> --><div id="element102" style="position: absolute; top: 7625px; left: 102px; width: 646px; height: 48px; z-index: 25;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><i>Rows of small squares like this --        -- in the text are actually Chinese characters in Microsoft's widely used Unicode format.  To see them as readable characters, you might like to activate the Chinese fonts that come with Windows XP, Vista, and Mac OS 9 and higher. </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i>   </i><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element102> --><!-- <hs:element114> --><div id="element114" style="position: absolute; top: 3062px; left: 86px; width: 594px; height: 16px; z-index: 26;"><div style="height: 16px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px; border-color: #000000; border-style: solid; background-color: #EDC3F9;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_125">Click here to jump to the special sections on Seattle's Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition of 1909</a></b><br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element114> --><!-- <hs:element125> --><div id="element125" style="position: absolute; top: 7419px; left: 1px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 27;"><a name="anchor_125"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element125> --><!-- <hs:element135> --><div id="element135" style="position: absolute; top: 7523px; left: 53px; width: 704px; height: 5px; z-index: 28;"><img height="5" width="704" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/DecorativeDivider/barber_pole.gif"></div><!-- </hs:element135> --><!-- <hs:element137> --><div id="element137" style="position: absolute; top: 7783px; left: 52px; width: 695px; height: 5px; z-index: 29;"><img height="5" width="695" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/DecorativeDivider/barber_pole.gif"></div><!-- </hs:element137> --><!-- <hs:element144> --><div id="element144" style="position: absolute; top: 3771px; left: 14px; width: 55px; height: 55px; z-index: 30;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 55px; width: 55px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="55" width="55" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Puget_smuggling_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element144> --><!-- <hs:element149> --><div id="element149" style="position: absolute; top: 5155px; left: 24px; width: 53px; height: 46px; z-index: 31;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 46px; width: 53px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="46" width="53" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Immigration_Building_1_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element149> --><!-- <hs:element150> --><div id="element150" style="position: absolute; top: 4702px; left: 15px; width: 55px; height: 47px; z-index: 32;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 47px; width: 55px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="47" width="55" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="SS_Minnesota-Dakota_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element150> --><!-- <hs:element151> --><div id="element151" style="position: absolute; top: 3592px; left: 10px; width: 52px; height: 49px; z-index: 33;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 49px; width: 52px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="49" width="52" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Nootka_Sound_crowd_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element151> --><!-- <hs:element158> --><div id="element158" style="position: absolute; top: 5483px; left: 25px; width: 51px; height: 50px; z-index: 34;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 50px; width: 51px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="50" width="51" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Dragon_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element158> --><!-- <hs:element159> --><div id="element159" style="position: absolute; top: 5404px; left: 24px; width: 51px; height: 48px; z-index: 35;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 48px; width: 51px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="48" width="51" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Deception_Pass_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element159> --><!-- <hs:element166> --><div id="element166" style="position: absolute; top: 3522px; left: 9px; width: 55px; height: 46px; z-index: 36;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 46px; width: 55px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="46" width="55" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Weaverville_Won_Lim_temple_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element166> --><!-- <hs:element172> --><div id="element172" style="position: absolute; top: 5313px; left: 19px; width: 58px; height: 48px; z-index: 37;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 48px; width: 58px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="48" width="58" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="PT_detention_house_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element172> --><!-- <hs:element173> --><div id="element173" style="position: absolute; top: 5704px; left: 82px; width: 663px; height: 1690px; z-index: 38;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_109">T</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_109">he Seattle chapter of the Preserve-the-Emperor Association is founded, 1903</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"> <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size10 Arial10">èè·¯ä¿çä¼æ³¨åæ件<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">As it turned out, China needed revolution, not reformation.  Before that, however, the Baohuanghui, the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>Preserve-the-Emperor Association, offered new status to U.S. and Canadian Chinese </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Updated 07/30/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Death.html">Many deceased Chinese were NOT sent back to China </a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size10 Arial10">è½å¶ä¸å½æ ¹ : æææå¹æ©æå人å¢å°<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>At least in Walla Walla, Washington, persons buried in the 1920s and 1930s often stayed there<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>rather than being exhumed and shipped back to their home towns in southern China</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[07/02/09]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/AYPE-Japan.html#anchor_114">Furuya House and Trees: The best-preserved early Asian-American home in the Pacific Northwest</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size12 Arial12"><i></i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">The home (on Bainbridge Island) belonged to a wealthy Japanese-American, Masajiro Furuya.  It served as <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>a summer resort for many Seattle Japanese and as a private agricultural experiment station.  Some of the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>trees he planted survive.  They may be the oldest living Asian-American plants in the region </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[07/15/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size14 Arial14"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html"> Chinese Women in the Northwest</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size14 Arial14"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Historians often depict early woman immigrants to is region as powerless victims of a rigid patriarchy and an<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>American society that was both racist and sexist.  The historians are right about the patriarchy and the<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>society but not, necessarily, about the women.  Many were neither slave-girl prostitutes nor submissive<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>housewives<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i></i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_43">"Retarded mental development"</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[10/30/10</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_44">Women who were not down-trodden: the saga of Dong Oy and Maggie Chin</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[11/15/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_64">A high-status courtesan flees via Portland</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[11/21/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Opium.html">Opium</a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"> 鸦çç<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>The drug played an important role in the lives and budgets of North American Chinese during the 19th<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>century.  For some modern Chinese-Americans it is a closed, forbidden subject.  We think it is time <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>that the subject be opened up.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i>  Producing and selling opium </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">ç
®ç<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_85">Refining and packaging opium for sale  æç
. å
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</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[08/9/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_362">Victoria: the biggest opium "manufacturer" outside Asia</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[11/16/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   <img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_89">Opium brand names</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> [Updated 11/2/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_162">More opium brand names: from gold mining sites in the Cariboo</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 1/18/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_104">Opium cans or "tins"</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[08/14/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_255">Opium cans of the prohibited period</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">Updated 1/17/11]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_128">Fake opium brands in San Francisco</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[09/6/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_77">Opium Retailers in San Francisco, 1900-1904</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> [12/17/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_122">Triumph of 19th century chemistry: making Middle Eastern opium smokable</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[12/29/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>  </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10">  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_123">Direct evidence of a Middle East/Balkans to Pacific Northwest connection</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[12/29/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i> Smuggling opium, 1880-1920</i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">èµ°ç§<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_128"> A future Prime Minister is shocked at Canada's opium refining and smuggling trade</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[09/2/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_347">A current Governor-General's wife is not at all shocked</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 11/12/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_32">Smuggling incidents</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_32"> åæ¡</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 8/14/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_319">"A pretty smuggler and her pathetic story"</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 11/01/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_247">A fashionable young lady gets caught with a half-ton of opium</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 12/17/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_69">Diving for opium in Puget Sound: a true story  ææ</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 10/1/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><i>  Using opium </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">å¸ç<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_56">Opium equipment in the U.S., 1896  ç
å
·</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 8/1/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_213">How opium pipes worked</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/8/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_211">Opium pipe bowls hint at Chinese immigrants' middle-class values</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/8/09]</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_237">Connoisseurs' pipe bowls from Yixing and Shiwan</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><i>Â </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 10/19/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_309">Brand dominance in the opium pipe bowl trade</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/27/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b>Â Â Â </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_333">North American opium lamps</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 11/3/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_46">Commerce in opium lamp chimneys</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 12/1/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/> Â Â </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_57">An addicted white prostitute testifies, 1885 Â ç
å</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i> </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 8/17/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_90">How much opium did white Americans use?  The Iowa case</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i>  </i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 12/19/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><b>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_97">The opium addicts of Albany, NY</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8">[</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">Posted 12/21/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Arial10"><i></i><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i>Banning opium and curing addicts </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_266">ç¦ç, æç</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_267">Turning point: the 1909 Shanghai Conference ä¸æµ·ä¸å½ç¦çä¼</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/15/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_268">Addiction cures for North American Chinese</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/15/09]</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_274">Curing addicts and outlawing the opium trade: the missionary connection</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 10/19/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_104">British Columbia defends Britain against Opium War slander</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 12/28/09]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b>See above: opium pipe bowls </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10">çæ</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b>excavated in North America, from the famous </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   kilns of Yixing </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10">å®å
´</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b>(Jiangsu province), Qinzhou </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10">é¦å·</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b>(Guangxi province), and Shiwan/ </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   Shekwan </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10">ç³æ¹¾</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b> (Guangdong province), as used by Chinese immigrants in the U.S. and</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   Canada,  We believe these Shiwan examples to be among the first pipe-bowls from </b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   that kiln center ever published, in or outside China.</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_186">Opium and Anti-Chinese Propaganda</a></i></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_184">Lurid pictures of opium dens</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_184"> </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Posted 05/30/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_185">Exaggerating harm from opium use</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b> </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[Posted 05/30/10]</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Violence.html"></a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><b><a target="_self" href="Violence.html">Anti-Chinese Violence  </a></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Arial12"><a target="_self" href="Violence.html">æåæ´åäºä»¶</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10">Threats from, and actual violence by, local whites bent on ethnic cleansing were a fact of life for Chinese<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>immigrants in the Pacific Northwest.  So why did Chinese come, though neither desperate nor poor?  Why<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>did they stay with such stubborn bravery?  One goal of this website is to seek answers to questions like<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>those.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_101">Violence against Chinese in the Pacific Northwest: a new list and map</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Arial11"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[NEW 08/03/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>    </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_147">The Anti-Chinese conspirators 1885-1887</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">Posted</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> 1/17/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>    </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_158">The Anaconda explosions: Knights of Labor murder or private revenge? 1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> [Posted 02/01/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_75">The Rock Creek Massacre 1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 9/1/09, revised 7/6/11]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_84">The Squak (Issaquah, Washington) Massacre 1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 01/14/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>    </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_173">Coal and ethnic cleansing: driving Chinese from the Washington mines1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 02/11/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_179">Evidence: Squak and Coal Creek were connected 1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Posted 02/12/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_197">The infamous "Tacoma Method" 1885</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[NEW 06/30/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><b><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_60">The Seattle Anti-Chinese Riots 1886</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 01/07/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>    </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_127"> Portland tries (and fails) to purge all Chinese 1886</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> [Posted 1/07/10]<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>   </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_67">The Deep Creek Massacre 1887</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Arial11"><b><i> </i></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8">[Updated 10/21/09]<br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element173> --><!-- <hs:element175> --><div id="element175" style="position: absolute; top: 5878px; left: 22px; width: 41px; height: 55px; z-index: 39;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 55px; width: 41px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/AYPE-Japan.html#anchor_138"><img height="55" width="41" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Furuya_Trees_Cypress_silhouette_tthumb.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element175> --><!-- <hs:element177> --><div id="element177" style="position: absolute; top: 306px; left: 59px; width: 841px; height: 165px; z-index: 40;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066" class="size18 ArialBlack18"><b>April 21, 2022. After several years of neglect, this site is being revived. Please be patient until updating is complete</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element177> --><!-- <hs:element189> --><div id="element189" style="position: absolute; top: 6512px; left: 39px; width: 51px; height: 115px; z-index: 41;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 115px; width: 51px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_69"><img height="115" width="51" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="diver_tthumb.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element189> --><!-- <hs:element190> --><div id="element190" style="position: absolute; top: 29925px; left: 335px; width: 54px; height: 17px; z-index: 42;"><img height="17" width="54" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/Scripts_HitCounter/HitCounter.dll?CMD=CMDGetImage&HCID=15688585&style=Cool&dw=132&dh=32&digits=5&borders=1"></div><!-- </hs:element190> --><!-- <hs:element191> --><div id="element191" style="position: absolute; top: 29929px; left: 329px; width: 72px; height: 71px; z-index: 43;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element191> --><!-- <hs:element193> --><div id="element193" style="position: absolute; top: 6174px; left: 217px; width: 295px; height: 44px; z-index: 44;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 44px; width: 295px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="Opium.html"><img height="44" width="295" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Harpers_opium_pipe_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element193> --><!-- <hs:element204> --><div id="element204" style="position: absolute; top: 3048px; left: 695px; width: 60px; height: 38px; z-index: 45;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 38px; width: 60px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="38" width="60" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Japanese_cruiser_Aso_tthumb.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element204> --><!-- <hs:element206> --><div id="element206" style="position: absolute; top: 7451px; left: 60px; width: 695px; height: 5px; z-index: 46;"><img height="5" width="695" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/DecorativeDivider/barber_pole.gif"></div><!-- </hs:element206> --><!-- <hs:element207> --><div id="element207" style="position: absolute; top: 3088px; left: 52px; width: 695px; height: 5px; z-index: 47;"><img height="5" width="695" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~media/elements/DecorativeDivider/barber_pole.gif"></div><!-- </hs:element207> --><!-- <hs:element210> --><div id="element210" style="position: absolute; top: 6652px; left: 1px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 48;"><a name="anchor_210"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element210> --><!-- <hs:element211> --><div id="element211" style="position: absolute; top: 6194px; left: 713px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 49;"><a name="anchor_211"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element211> --><!-- <hs:element215> --><div id="element215" style="position: absolute; top: 7688px; left: 102px; width: 642px; height: 82px; z-index: 50;"><div style="height: 80px; padding: 0px; border-width: 1px; border-color: #FFFFFF; border-style: solid; background-color: transparent;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9943D7" class="size10 Arial10"><u><i>Copyright  information</i></u></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9943D7" class="size10 Arial10"><i>.  Nonprofit users are free to use text and original or out-of-copyright images from these web pages as long as they credit CINARC and ask subsequent users to do the same.  Images that are credited to other individuals or institutions, however, should not be reproduced without first consulting the owners.  For-profit users should get the permission of CINARC's editors before publication, in print or electronic form.</i><br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element215> --><!-- <hs:element219> --><div id="element219" style="position: absolute; top: 1518px; left: 28px; width: 365px; height: 174px; z-index: 51;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size12 Tahoma12">click on topic for details)<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#A85300" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|1|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_251">Opium Trade and Use é´çç</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#FE7105" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|2|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_210">Anti-Chinese Violence æ´åæå</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#BA34A6" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|3|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_125">Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition 西é
å¾åè§ä¼</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#8965B8" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|4|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_252">Detaining Chinese  æç¦å人</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#01D2E4" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|5|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_253">Fishing æ¸ä¸</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#E60208" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|6|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_254">Chinese Empire Reform Association ä¿çä¼</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|7|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_255">Smuggling Chinese å·æ¸¡å
¥å£</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#FCA705" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|8|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_256">Chinese Place Names in N. Am. åç¾æ´²å°å</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#17B36C" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|9|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_257">First Chinese in North America ææ©çå人</a></b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element219> --><!-- <hs:element220> --><div id="element220" style="position: absolute; top: 1406px; left: 277px; width: 87px; height: 88px; z-index: 52;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 88px; width: 87px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_263"><img height="88" width="87" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_chop.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element220> --><!-- <hs:element221> --><div id="element221" style="position: absolute; top: 1409px; left: 395px; width: 88px; height: 82px; z-index: 53;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 82px; width: 88px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_264"><img height="82" width="88" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_medicine.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element221> --><!-- <hs:element223> --><div id="element223" style="position: absolute; top: 1116px; left: 565px; width: 81px; height: 86px; z-index: 54;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 86px; width: 81px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_253"><img height="86" width="81" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_fishing.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element223> --><!-- <hs:element224> --><div id="element224" style="position: absolute; top: 1116px; left: 463px; width: 90px; height: 86px; z-index: 55;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 86px; width: 90px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_252"><img height="86" width="90" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_detention.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element224> --><!-- <hs:element225> --><div id="element225" style="position: absolute; top: 1257px; left: 12px; width: 85px; height: 88px; z-index: 56;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 88px; width: 85px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_255"><img height="88" width="85" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_smuggle_land.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element225> --><!-- <hs:element226> --><div id="element226" style="position: absolute; top: 1206px; left: 2px; width: 738px; height: 17px; z-index: 57;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 ArialBlack9">  Opium  Trade & Use   Anti-ChineseViolence    A-Y-P Exposition     Detention      Fishing      Emperor <br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element226> --><!-- <hs:element228> --><div id="element228" style="position: absolute; top: 1116px; left: 333px; width: 102px; height: 88px; z-index: 58;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 88px; width: 102px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_125"><img height="88" width="102" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Kerlee_Dragon_closeup_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element228> --><!-- <hs:element229> --><div id="element229" style="position: absolute; top: 1258px; left: 123px; width: 80px; height: 87px; z-index: 59;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 87px; width: 80px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_256"><img height="87" width="80" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Chin_Gee_Hee_home_01.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element229> --><!-- <hs:element230> --><div id="element230" style="position: absolute; top: 1260px; left: 231px; width: 91px; height: 86px; z-index: 60;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 86px; width: 91px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_257"><img height="86" width="91" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Nootka_Sound_crowd_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element230> --><!-- <hs:element231> --><div id="element231" style="position: absolute; top: 1260px; left: 341px; width: 118px; height: 87px; z-index: 61;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 87px; width: 118px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_258"><img height="87" width="118" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="1929_Lam_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element231> --><!-- <hs:element232> --><div id="element232" style="position: absolute; top: 1259px; left: 481px; width: 110px; height: 87px; z-index: 62;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 87px; width: 110px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_259"><img height="87" width="110" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Hong_Men_portraits_15_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element232> --><!-- <hs:element233> --><div id="element233" style="position: absolute; top: 1259px; left: 609px; width: 122px; height: 86px; z-index: 63;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 86px; width: 122px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_260"><img height="86" width="122" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Washmag_1906_Commissioners_Photo_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element233> --><!-- <hs:element234> --><div id="element234" style="position: absolute; top: 1404px; left: 12px; width: 115px; height: 86px; z-index: 64;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 86px; width: 115px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_261"><img height="86" width="115" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="1897_pewter_altar_set_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element234> --><!-- <hs:element235> --><div id="element235" style="position: absolute; top: 1114px; left: 663px; width: 67px; height: 88px; z-index: 65;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 88px; width: 67px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_254"><img height="88" width="67" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Baohuanghui_incorporation_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element235> --><!-- <hs:element239> --><div id="element239" style="position: absolute; top: 1407px; left: 614px; width: 116px; height: 87px; z-index: 66;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 87px; width: 116px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_266"><img height="87" width="116" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Cleaning_graves_at_Mountain_View_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element239> --><!-- <hs:element240> --><div id="element240" style="position: absolute; top: 1347px; width: 750px; height: 17px; z-index: 67;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 ArialBlack9">Smuggling Chinese  PlaceNames   First Chinese   Why Chinese Died     Secret Society    Prince Tsai Comes <br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element240> --><!-- <hs:element242> --><div id="element242" style="position: absolute; top: 1494px; width: 727px; height: 17px; z-index: 68;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"> </font><font face="'Arial Black', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 ArialBlack9">  Shrines, Temples     Laundries        Chop Suey     Herbal Medicine    Women        Cemeteries   <br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element242> --><!-- <hs:element243> --><div id="element243" style="position: absolute; top: 1236px; left: 13px; width: 736px; height: 16px; z-index: 69;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size10 Tahoma10"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>    |7|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#FCA705" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>           |8|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#17B36C" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>           |9|             </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#3F9C2D" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|10|              </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|11|                </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#996600" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|12|</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element243> --><!-- <hs:element244> --><div id="element244" style="position: absolute; top: 1385px; left: 9px; width: 724px; height: 16px; z-index: 70;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#DF7AAB" class="size10 Tahoma10"><b>   </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#DF7AAB" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>    |13|             </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|14|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>            |15|             </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#710F4B" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|16|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#E0700E" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>          |17|           </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|18|</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element244> --><!-- <hs:element246> --><div id="element246" style="position: absolute; top: 1094px; width: 745px; height: 14px; z-index: 71;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#A85300" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>         |1|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#FE7105" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>                |2|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>               </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#BA34A6" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|3| </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#8965B8" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>             |4| </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>          </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#01D2E4" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|5| </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>  </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#080098" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>          </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#E60208" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b>|6|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#080098" class="size9 Tahoma9"><b> </b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element246> --><!-- <hs:element247> --><div id="element247" style="position: absolute; top: 1533px; left: 406px; width: 332px; height: 157px; z-index: 72;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#3F9C2D" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|10|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_258">Causes of Chinese deaths è´æ»åå </a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|11|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_259">Secret Societies ç§å¯ç¤¾ä¼æå</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#996600" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|12|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_260">Prince Tsai in Seattle éå½å
¬æ´æ³½è®¿è¥¿é
å¾Â </a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#DF7AAB" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|13| </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_261">Shrines, Temples, Halls åºå®, ä¼é¦</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|14|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_262">Laundries æ´è¡£é¦</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#23671C" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|15|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_263">Chop Suey æç¢</a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_262">é¦</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#710F4B" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|16|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#6C4687" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_264">Herbal Medicine ä¸å»èè¯</a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#E0700E" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|17|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_327">Chinese American Women </a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#633100" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_265"> </a></b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b>|18|</b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b> </b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_266">Cemeteries </a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9DCE0E" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_252">å人</a></b></font><font face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size11 Tahoma11"><b><a target="_self" href="#anchor_266">å¢å°</a></b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element247> --><!-- <hs:element248> --><div id="element248" style="position: absolute; top: 1115px; left: 12px; width: 147px; height: 85px; z-index: 73;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 85px; width: 147px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_251"><img height="85" width="147" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="1909_0313_p385_ILN_white_girl_smoking_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element248> --><!-- <hs:element249> --><div id="element249" style="position: absolute; top: 1116px; left: 177px; width: 130px; height: 87px; z-index: 74;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 87px; width: 130px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_210"><img height="87" width="130" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Harpers_Massacre_at_Rock_Springs_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element249> --><!-- <hs:element250> --><div id="element250" style="position: absolute; top: 1409px; left: 156px; width: 86px; height: 83px; z-index: 75;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 83px; width: 86px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_262"><img height="83" width="86" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_laundry.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element250> --><!-- <hs:element251> --><div id="element251" style="position: absolute; top: 6141px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 76;"><a name="anchor_251"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element251> --><!-- <hs:element252> --><div id="element252" style="position: absolute; top: 5031px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 77;"><a name="anchor_252"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element252> --><!-- <hs:element253> --><div id="element253" style="position: absolute; top: 3903px; left: 670px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 78;"><a name="anchor_253"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element253> --><!-- <hs:element254> --><div id="element254" style="position: absolute; top: 5378px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 79;"><a name="anchor_254"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element254> --><!-- <hs:element255> --><div id="element255" style="position: absolute; top: 3666px; left: 670px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 80;"><a name="anchor_255"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element255> --><!-- <hs:element256> --><div id="element256" style="position: absolute; top: 3365px; left: 670px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 81;"><a name="anchor_256"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element256> --><!-- <hs:element257> --><div id="element257" style="position: absolute; top: 3477px; left: 670px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 82;"><a name="anchor_257"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element257> --><!-- <hs:element258> --><div id="element258" style="position: absolute; top: 4051px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 83;"><a name="anchor_258"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element258> --><!-- <hs:element259> --><div id="element259" style="position: absolute; top: 4266px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 84;"><a name="anchor_259"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element259> --><!-- <hs:element260> --><div id="element260" style="position: absolute; top: 4549px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 85;"><a name="anchor_260"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element260> --><!-- <hs:element261> --><div id="element261" style="position: absolute; top: 4733px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 86;"><a name="anchor_261"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element261> --><!-- <hs:element262> --><div id="element262" style="position: absolute; top: 4198px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 87;"><a name="anchor_262"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element262> --><!-- <hs:element263> --><div id="element263" style="position: absolute; top: 3250px; left: 661px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 88;"><a name="anchor_263"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element263> --><!-- <hs:element264> --><div id="element264" style="position: absolute; top: 3130px; left: 668px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 89;"><a name="anchor_264"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element264> --><!-- <hs:element265> --><div id="element265" style="position: absolute; top: 5748px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 90;"><a name="anchor_265"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element265> --><!-- <hs:element266> --><div id="element266" style="position: absolute; top: 5659px; left: 721px; width: 80px; height: 45px; z-index: 91;"><a name="anchor_266"><img height="2" width="1" alt="" src="/tp.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element266> --><!-- <hs:element267> --><div id="element267" style="position: absolute; top: 7217px; left: 10px; width: 105px; height: 70px; z-index: 92;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 70px; width: 105px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_407"><img height="70" width="105" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="Harpers_Massacre_at_Rock_Springs_thumb.jpg" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element267> --><!-- <hs:element268> --><div id="element268" style="position: absolute; top: 3184px; left: 20px; width: 49px; height: 46px; z-index: 93;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 46px; width: 49px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_264"><img height="46" width="49" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_medicine.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element268> --><!-- <hs:element269> --><div id="element269" style="position: absolute; top: 4232px; left: 17px; width: 49px; height: 48px; z-index: 94;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 48px; width: 49px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><a target="_self" href="#anchor_262"><img height="48" width="49" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px; border-width: 0;" title="" alt="" src="research_index_laundry.gif" /></a></div></div><!-- </hs:element269> --><!-- <hs:element271> --><div id="element271" style="position: absolute; 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line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>In fact, the term is not even Ameican.  It was being used in Singapore by 1844. well before the Gold Rush<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Arial10"><img src="/tp.gif" alt border="0" width="30" class="lpxtab"/>and the immigration of Chinese miners to California </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#9E0704" class="size8 Arial8"><b>[07/2/10]</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element322> --><!-- <hs:element323> --><div id="element323" style="position: absolute; top: 88px; left: 769px; width: 29px; height: 68px; z-index: 137;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td height="68" bgcolor="#8282FF" width="29"><img height="68" width="29" title="" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=130&g=130&b=255"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element323> --><!-- <hs:element325> --><div id="element325" style="position: absolute; 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Chinese in Early Northwest America | Seattle
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***Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â******WHAT'S NEW******Â******Â***
**04/20/s022. New Book:Â*****Chinese Traditional Religion & Temples in North America, 1849-1920: California.Â***** Ca. 530 pages, 351 illustrations, lots of Chinese-language refs and terms.**
**08/10/2017. Just released! Â****[Detailed new map of Chinatown in San Francisco just before the Earthquake](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_337)****, with tongs and temples. The economic and spiritual heart of Chinese America, wiped out in two terrible days. What it was like before. Part of the editors' research on Chinese religion in early North America.Â**
**03/24/2017. Â Found in the records of San Francisco's Sam Yup [Three Counties] Association:Â****[The Chinese Names of the Deep Creek Massacre Victims.](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_450)****Â Now Perhaps Their Families Can Be Traced. Â**
***Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â******The records may be the only Chinese-language documents in San Francisco that******Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â***
***Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â******survived the 1906Â Earthquake*****Â and Fire.**
**11/29/2016.Â****[Â New data on wholesale market prices for opium in the U.S. between the 1850s and 1909](http://cinarc.homestead.com/Opium-3.html#anchor_67)****, from Chinese-language newspapers. Â The prices were surprisingly steady over the years.**
**11/29/2016. Â****[What the landmark "Chinese Opium Exclusion Act" of 1909 really prohibited](http://cinarc.homestead.com/Opium-3.html#anchor_68)****. Â Most authorities on the subject, including Wikipedia, are wrong. Â****It dd not prohibit possession or use.**
**12-7-2015 Â (*****Updated 2/29/2016*****) Â Announcing the first-everÂ****[HISTORIC CHINESE TEMPLE CONFERENCE](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_160)****. Â****March 12-13, 2016.****Â Marysville, CA. Â To be held during Marysville's famous Bok Kai Festival and "Bomb Day." Â Here are theÂ****[updated program](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_148)****,Â****[registration information](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_216)****,****[Â bios of speakers](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_159)****Â andÂ****[abstracts of presentations](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines-2.html#anchor_216)****. Â As of February 29, 63 people have registered. Â The capacity of the venue is 70. Â**
**For July 2016****: A major conference on Chinese outside China will take place in Vancouver, organized byÂ****ISSCO, the INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY OF CHINESE OVERSEAS****, and hosted by theÂ****[University of British Columbia](http://2016issco.arts.ubc.ca/)****,  This is only the second time that an ISSCO conference has been held in North America.  The  event will be held in Richmond, a suburb with a large Chinese-speaking population and many excellent Chinese restaurants, at the Sheraton Vancouver Airport Hotel from July 6-8, 2016.  Numerous historians and social scientists from Asia and Europe as well as the Americas will attend.****Â****[Â](http://issco.2016@ubc.ca)****[For more information go to the UBC's ISSCO website.](http://2016issco.arts.ubc.ca/)**
**10/27/2015 Â****[Yet another iron bell, in San Jose's Ng Shing Gong Temple.](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_169)****Â Dated 1889. Â We keep thinking we have seen every North American example still in existence, but then someone shows us another one. Â A nice bell**
**10/26/2015 Â****[The earliest of all surviving Chinese North American objects!Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_618)**** That is, objects made for and used by Chinese on this continent.  A simple flag rack on the altar of Weaverville's  Won LimTemple.  With a Xian Feng (å¸è± or å¸ä¸°) date: 1861!  It may not look like much, but . . .**
**10/19/2015Â****[ A 1864 date for "Chinese Masons"!](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_393)**** Two years before Gustave Schlegel popularized the idea that Chinese secret societies and the Euro-American Freemasons might be connected, and long before the term began to be used  by the Chee Kung Tong and Bing Kung Tong.  And in, for goodness' sake, Weaverville, way off in the Trinity Alps of Northern California.  Amazing!**
**9/4/2015 Â****["The Gods of Chinese North America," an illustrated list of the principal deities, almost all of them Daoist, as worshiped by early Chinese in the United States and Canada.](http://cinarc.homestead.com/Shrines-2.html)****Â Of the many hundred gods and goddesses featured in the traditional folk and formal religions of China, only a handful made it across the Pacific to the New World. Â They are listed here as a convenience to temple fanciers and scholars, some of whom may not be too familiar with Chinese folk beliefs, and as an advertisement for the editors' next books, on (1) the three best-preserved early Chinese temples in North America (in Marysville, Oroville, and Weaverville, not San Francisco) and on (2) historic Chinese temples in the western United States. Â**
**4/15/2015 Â Â****[A new page: historical Chinese land ownership in the U.S. and Canada](Property.html)****. Â A first article introduces the subject with a fine example of legal boilerplate from the Yuba County deed books in Marysville, California, recordingÂ****[Ah Fee's and Quong Hop's purchase of land from E. W. Sawtelle in 1890](http://cinarc.homestead.com/Property.html#anchor_53)****.**
**4/11/2015 Â Â****[Updated list of historic opium brand names](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-Brands.html)****, as stamped on the lids of opium cans in historical and archaeological collections, in North America and Australia. Â Such cans contained ready-to-smoke opium refined in Hong Kong, Macao, Victoria BC, or Vancouver.**
**4/7/2015 Â****[Chapter 1 of Coming Home in Gold Brocade, "Through Chinese Eyes,"Â](http://cinarc.homestead.com/CINARC-Books.html#anchor_48)****has been added to this website. Â It offers what we think is a novel perspective on early Chinese immigration.**
**4/6/2015 Â Already in 1855,Â****[Chinese "coarse" ceramics were used (and valued) by the U.S. Mint in San Francisco](http://cinarc.homestead.com/Data-4.html#anchor_92)****, according to the first issue ofÂ*****The Oriental*****, the second oldest printed Chinese newspaper in America and one of the oldest anywhere.**
**3/31/2015 Â****[CINARC's first book is in print. Â](CINARC-Books.html)*****[Coming Home in Gold Brocade: Chinese in Early Northwest America](CINARC-Books.html)******,Â*****by Bennet Bronson and Chuimei Ho*****. Â*****With lots of new data and conclusions about how and why Chinese came to the Northwest between 1788 and 1911. Â It is for sale at Amazon.com. Â*****Paperback. Â Price: Â US$12.75. Â Canadian$15.96. Â ISBN-13: 978-1505228021, ISBN-10: 1505228026.***
***8/28/2014. Â******[The Fusang Question: Was this mysterious ancient kingdom (AD 599) located in the Pacific Northwest? Did early Chinese travelers visit it?](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_305)******Â No and no. Â The idea that Chinese of that period visited North America is based on an 18th century mistranslation.***
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***The purpose of this site****Â and of CINARC is to encourage*
*collaboration in exploring the history of Chinese in the Pacific Northwest - in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, British Columbia, and Alaska,with much of California. - between the first known arrival of Chinese in 1788 and the great changes in the regional Chinese population that followed the liberalizing of U.S. immigration laws in 1965**.Â*
ç¾æ´²è¥¿å[è§](#anchor_203) åè£æ©æåå²
**CINARC**Â Â
**é山西åè§**** -****åè£ç 究ä¸å¿**
**Chinese in Northwest America Research Committee**
**Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â****HISTORICAL CHINESE-AMERICAN TOPICS**
**[Chinese Herbal Medicine in the Early NorthwestÂ](Topics.html)**æ©æ[è¯](Topics.html)[æ¹](Topics.html)Â
    Comments on a recent news article about the remedies preserved in the Kam Wah Chung MuseumÂ
    plus new information from the account books of a merchant and labor contractor, Chin Gee Hee
     a. [An early herbal doctor in John Day, Oregon](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_230), ca. 1890-1930
     b. [Early herbal remedies for contract laborers in Seattle](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_231), ca. 1890
     c. [Dr. Lamb in Butte (and Dr. Ah Fong in Boise)](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_300), ca. 1870-1920  **[Updated 03/24/09]**
**Chop Suey Â**æç¢Â Â
    This famous food forms an important, though not always admired, part of American culinary history.
    New research shows that it was invented in New York and that it came late to the Northwest.
[Origins](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_100)
[Rise of the Chop Suey restaurant in the U.S](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_139)[.](#anchor_139)
[Chinese restaurants and Chop Suey in the Pacific Northwest Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_203)[西åè§æ©ææç¢é¤é¦](#anchor_203)
**[A Research Aid: Chinese Place Names in the Northwest in 1880-1890 and 1901Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_65)**[ä¸æå°å](http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_65)Â
    Historians often have trouble identifying American place names in early Chinese-language writings.Â
    This section is offered as an aid to researchers, here and in China. **[Updated 12/16/09]Â**
**[Links with Chinese-American Museums and Historical Organizations Â](links.html)**[ç¸å
³ç½å](links.html)
    This will eventually include most of the U.S. and Canadian organizations that specialize in Chinese-
    North American history.Â
**[The First Chinese in Northwest America? - on Vancouver Island with Captain Meares in 1788Â](History.html)**[西åè§ææ©å人å¨1788å¹´ç»é温å¥å](History.html)
    A good many Chinese sailors and skilled craftsmen worked for British traders on the west coastÂ
    of Vancouver in the late 18th century.  The traders were collecting sea otter furs for sale in China. Â
[Affee and Aehaw](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_25)Â
  b. [Does this picture show them?](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_26)
  c. [The First Chinese in Washington State (also in in 1788)](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_121)** [07/22/09]Â**
 Â d:Â [Ashing, Achun and Aceun in Baltimore in 1785](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_38)
 Â Â Â (Chinese sailors visited the East Coast even earlier, in 1785)
  e. [27 named Chinese seized by the Spanish on Vancouver in 1789](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_134) **[08/26/09]Â**
**Smuggling Chinese Immigrants  Â**éæ³å
¥å¢
**Â Â Â Â Â**For many decades, the border between British Columbia and Washington State saw intense smuggling
    activity as well as spasmodic efforts to enforce immigration laws.  Here we present outstanding episodes
    in the long, sometimes comic and sometimes tragic war between coast guards and border patrolmen
    on the one hand and smugglers on the other.  While modern immigrant smugglers often belong to the
    ethnic group being smuggled, in the historic Northwest they were mostly European-Americans - sailors,
    fishermen, farmers, police, immigration officials, and just about any other sort of white citizen who had
    access to a boat or lived near a cross-border trail.. Â
      a. [Ralph's trailblazing investigation of immigrant smuggling, 1890](http://cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_263)*Â*[**Updated 03/11/09]**
      b. [Annals of Northwestern smuggling 1: by sea](http://cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_269)  **[Latest entry: 04/7/09]**
      c. [Shootout at Sedro-Wooley: customs agents fight over smuggled Chinese (and opium)](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_382) *Â***[10/28/09]**
      d. [Joking about the murder of smuggled Chinese at Deception Pass](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_87) *Â***[****0****2/12/09]**
**F****ishing and Fish Processing****[Â](#anchor_253)**[æ¸ä¸](#anchor_253)
   a. [Chinese fishermen In Washington Territory](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429)*Â***[11/10/09]**
   b. [Chinese workers at Columbia River canneries](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429) [**11/10/09]**
   c. [Were Chinese fishermen greedy and irresponsible?](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_429) **[11/10/09; updated 02/08/10]**
***For the latest features, click onÂ******[What's New](#anchor_319)******. Â For info on (1) the CINARC logo and (2) strange rows of boxes in the text, clickÂ******[here](#anchor_54)*****]**
**Notes**:
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**W****hy Chinese in the Early Pacific Northwest Died  Â**亡å½å¤©æ¶¯
[The high Chinese suicide rate in Washington State, 1891-1907](http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_110)Â **[NEW 01/04/10]**
  [Violent Chinese deaths in British Columbia](http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109)[,Â](http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109)[1879-1893](http://cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_109) **[Updated 01/04/10]**
  [Causes of Chinese deaths in Washington State](http://www.cinarc.org/Death.html#anchor_118) **[NEW 01/09/10]**
**"****[Does a Chinaman Do Your Washing?Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_288)**[æ¿ä½ æ´ç«çæ¯ä¸å½äººå?](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_288)
     **If so, you're not carrying out the principles of unionism"** This quote from a 1906 union newspaper
    shows that the hostility of organized labor toward Chinese in Seattle even included laundries.**Â****[03/11/09]**
**Secret Societies or Chinese Freemasons**
**Â**
***>****** Â*****[Should the subject be taboo?](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_210)***** Â***ç§å¯ç¤¾ä¼å¯è°ä¸å¯è°?*** [10/01/09]***
********[S](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_229)****[ecret society secrets](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_229)****Â**æ©æ对ç§å¯ç¤¾ä¼çæ¥é ***[09/23/10]***
********* Â*****[A 19th century secret society manual in Clinton, B.C.](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_161)****[Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_161)**å æ¿å¤§åæ¯ç天å°ä¼ä¼ç°¿***Â******[10/01/09] Â***
*********Â******[Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141)*****["Tianyun"--secret dates for a revolutionary cause](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141)*****[ Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141)***['](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_141)天è¿' å¹´å·èåçé©å½æè¯***Â******[07/22/10]Â******Â***
********* Â*****[Membership certificates meant for concealment](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_162)*****Â***æ´ªé¨è´å
¬å è
°ç***Â******[08/13/10]***
****** Â****[A meeting notice you couldn't refuse](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_206)*****Â***è§ç¾å²æä¸å°ä¼*** [******08/15/10]***
******Â Â****[The history of the Chee Kung Tong without the myths](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_219)****[Â](#anchor_219)**è´å
¬å æ¥é¾å»è ***[09/22/10******]***
**Â Â ****>****Â Â****[The mother(s) of all secret societies](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_270)**Â ***[09/22/10]***
**  **** >**** Â****[The mother society puts on a new face and changes her name](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_271)****Â**ä»æ´ªé¨å°è´å
¬å  ***[09/22/10]***
**  Â**** >**** Â****[The glory days of the Chee Kung Tong](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_272)**** Â**1890年代è´å
¬å å¦æ¥å²å¤©Â ***[09/22/10]***
**>****Â Â****[Sun Yat-sen and the Chee Kung Tong: as early as 1897?](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_235)**Â ***Â******[09/26/10]***
***> Â******[Sun Yat-Sen and the "White Lily Society," 1897](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_308)******Â Â******[12/17/10]***
***> Â******[The Chee Kung Tong and the American Masons in Helena, Montana](http://www.cinarc.org/Freemasons.html#anchor_294)******Â Â******[12/06/10]***
**[P](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68)****[rince Tsai Comes to Seattle, 1906 Â](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68)**[ææ¸
åºæ´å¤§è£:  éå½å
¬æ´æ³½æµè¥¿é
å¾](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_68)
The visit by an Imperial Commission led by an actual prince, Tsai Tseh (or Tai Ze), improved relations
between European-American and Chinese-American leaders. Â The commissioners were the highest-
ranking Chinese to visit Seattle until after World War II. **[Updated 07/22/09]**
**[The Chinese crew on the Great Northern's ill-fated super-ship](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_99)**
The Prince arrived on the Great Northern Railroad's steamship Dakota, then one of the two largest ships
on the Pacific. Â As with its sister ship, the SS Minnesota, many sailors on the SS Dakota were Chinese.
**[03/01/09]**
**[Shrines, Temples and HallsÂ](Shrines.html)**[åºå®, ä¼é¦](#anchor_261)
1852 Â [Found! Â The oldest temple inscription in the Americas](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_334)Â **Â [NEW 10/19/10]**
1857Â Â **[The earliest picture of a North (or South) American Chinese temple](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_331)**Â Â **[NEW 10/15/10]**
1866 Â **[The oldest surviving Chinese temple in North America:](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_90)**Â not in San Fancisco but (perhaps) the
     temple in Marysville! **[01/25/10]**** Â**
1866-1892 Â **[The North God in North America](http://cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_378)**.**Â****[10/26/10]**
1870s-1904 Â **[Suijing Bo in the Northwest: A once-obscure deity makes it big](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_236)****Â****[07/21/10]**
1871- now  The North God: Bi Di, Bok Dai, Bok Kai, Beuk Aie
1874-1909  **[Cast iron bells in North American Chinese temples](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_169)****Â** 西åè§å¯ºåºçéæ³å¨Â **[3/10/2010]**
1875-1887 Â **[The oldest Chinese temple in the Pacific Northwest:](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66)**[Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66)**[Victoria's Tam Kung temple](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66)***[Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66)*
 [å æ¿ å¤§åæ¯çåå¤å©è°å
¬åºÂ](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_66) A fire damaged much of the temple in the 1990s, but some of its most
        important antique furnishings survived which bear dates (In imperial reign years) that prove the temple
 already existed in the 19th century. [11/30/2008]
1885 Â **[The CCBA's Shrine in Victoria, BC: Prestige from home-town heroes' calligraphy](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_65)**
      å æ¿å¤§åå¤å©å ä¸åä¼é¦å¤§å  One of the finest shrines in Nortjh America features splendidÂ
        calligraphy by notable persons back in China [12/14/2009]
1888 Â **[Lewiston's Beuk Aie Temple: A memorial to the Deep Creek massacre?](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_298)****Â****[08/01/10]**
1909 Â **[The Kong Chow Temple in San Francisco: Prestige from diplomats' calligraphy](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_112)**
          ä¸è©å¸å²¡å·ä¼é¦ - æè´µæ¾èµ«é¨æ¥£  Inscriptions by the great Wu Ting Fan and others at an important
         center of Daoist worship** [01/26/10]**
1911 Â **[An art nouveau landmark: The Hook Sin Tong Building in Victoria](http://www.cinarc.org/Shrines.html#anchor_209)**Â **[05/24/10]**
**[Detaining Asians at Seattle's "Angel Island," 1907-1916Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_315)**[èè·¯çå¤©ä½¿å² - 临æ¶ç§»æ°å®¡æ¥ç«](#anchor_315)
It turns out that a once-notorious detention center for Asian immigrants in Seattle still survives -- as a
mini-storage facility about a mile north of the city's central waterfront. Â The editors visited it in the
company of historian John R. Litz, who rediscovered it recently through archival detective work.**Â****[01/15/09]**
**[Victoria's vile detention facility](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_345)** **Â**[å æ¿å¤§](http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_118)[åå¤å©](http://www.cinarc.org/Regions.html#anchor_118)å人æçæ
In the late nineteenth century, Canada ran one of the nastiest prisons on the continent for ChineseÂ
awaiting deportation and for clarification of immigration status. Â Neither the U.S. nor Canada keptÂ
convicted murderers under worse conditions. **[****UpdatedÂ****06/20/09]**
**[Port Townsend's fine but doomed detention house](http://www.cinarc.org/Topics.html#anchor_346)**  åçé¡¿å·ç µå
顺å人æçæ
Compared with the one in Victoria, Port Townsend's facility for housing would-be Chinese immigrants
sounds relatively humane. Â Unfortunately, it would soon be closed due to the clout of Seattle and the
Great Northern Railroad.**Â****[Updated 04/16/09]**
**[Joking about the Murder of Smuggled Chinese at Deception Pass, 1880s](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_87)**
Ben Ure, famed smuggler and leading citizen of Whidby Island, is reputed to have routinely drowned his
    illegal Chinese passengers to avoid detection by the Customs Service.  Local folklore treats this as
    amusing.  We think it is not.*Â***[02/12/09]**
**[A New Discovery -- the Great Parade Dragon from the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition Still Exists! Â](http://www.cinarc.org/aype.html#anchor_432)**[é¾å¤´åç° - 西é
å¾1909 å¹´èµä¼æ æ ç¾å¹´é¾è](http://www.cinarc.org/aype.html#anchor_432)
The dragon's well-preserved remains, no longer in working condition, have been found at the Bok KaiÂ
Temple in Marysville, CA. Â It is the largest and most important surviving Asian artifact from the AYPE.**[02/16/09]**
*The CINARC logo consists of  the character for "gold (**jin** in Mandarin;Â**gum** in Cantonese), as written by a famous Tang Dynasty calligrapher, over an image of Mt. Rainier. just south of Seattle.  "Gold Mountain" is what the Chinese still call San Francisco and formerly called the entire west coast of the U.S.Â*
*Rows of small squares like this -- Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -- in the text are actually Chinese characters in Microsoft's widely used Unicode format. Â To see them as readable characters, you might like to activate the Chinese fonts that come with Windows XP, Vista, and Mac OS 9 and higher.Â**Â Â Â*
**[Click here to jump to the special sections on Seattle's Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition of 1909](#anchor_125)**
**[T](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_109)****[he Seattle chapter of the Preserve-the-Emperor Association is founded, 1903](http://www.cinarc.org/History.html#anchor_109)**Â
èè·¯ä¿çä¼æ³¨åæ件
As it turned out, China needed revolution, not reformation. Â Before that, however, the Baohuanghui, the
Preserve-the-Emperor Association, offered new status to U.S. and Canadian Chinese **[Updated 07/30/09]**
**[Many deceased Chinese were NOT sent back to ChinaÂ](Death.html)**
è½å¶ä¸å½æ ¹ : æææå¹æ©æå人å¢å°
At least in Walla Walla, Washington, persons buried in the 1920s and 1930s often stayed there
rather than being exhumed and shipped back to their home towns in southern China**Â****[07/02/09]**
**[Furuya House and Trees: The best-preserved early Asian-American home in the Pacific Northwest](http://www.cinarc.org/AYPE-Japan.html#anchor_114)**
The home (on Bainbridge Island) belonged to a wealthy Japanese-American, Masajiro Furuya. Â It served asÂ
a summer resort for many Seattle Japanese and as a private agricultural experiment station. Â Some of the
trees he planted survive.  They may be the oldest living Asian-American plants in the region [07/15/09]
**[Â Chinese Women in the Northwest](http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html)**
Historians often depict early woman immigrants to is region as powerless victims of a rigid patriarchy and an
American society that was both racist and sexist. Â The historians are right about the patriarchy and the
society but not, necessarily, about the women. Â Many were neither slave-girl prostitutes nor submissive
housewives
["Retarded mental development"](http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_43)Â [10/30/10]
[Women who were not down-trodden: the saga of Dong Oy and Maggie Chin](http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_44)Â [11/15/10]
[A high-status courtesan flees via Portland](http://www.cinarc.org/Women.html#anchor_64)Â [11/21/10]
**[Opium](Opium.html)** 鸦çç
The drug played an important role in the lives and budgets of North American Chinese during the 19th
century. Â For some modern Chinese-Americans it is a closed, forbidden subject. Â We think it is timeÂ
that the subject be opened up.
***Â Â Producing and selling opiumÂ***ç
®ç
   [Refining and packaging opium for sale  æç
. å
è£](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_85) [08/9/09]
* Â Â*[Victoria: the biggest opium "manufacturer" outside Asia](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_362)*Â*[11/16/09]
 Â Â [Opium brand names](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_89)Â [Updated 11/2/09]
 Â Â [More opium brand names: from gold mining sites in the Cariboo](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_162)Â [Updated 1/18/10]
 Â Â [Opium cans or "tins"](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_104)Â [08/14/09]
* Â Â*[Opium cans of the prohibited period](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_255)*Â***[**Updated 1/17/11]
 Â Â [Fake opium brands in San Francisco](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_128)Â [09/6/09]
* Â Â*[Opium Retailers in San Francisco, 1900-1904](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_77)*Â*Â [12/17/09]
 Â Â [Triumph of 19th century chemistry: making Middle Eastern opium smokable](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_122)*Â*[12/29/09]
* Â*Â Â [Direct evidence of a Middle East/Balkans to Pacific Northwest connection](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_123)*Â*[12/29/09]
*** Smuggling opium, 1880-1920*****  Â**èµ°ç§
 Â Â [Â A future Prime Minister is shocked at Canada's opium refining and smuggling trade](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_128)Â [09/2/09]
* Â Â*[A current Governor-General's wife is not at all shocked](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_347)*Â*[Posted 11/12/09]
 Â Â [Smuggling incidents](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_32)Â [Â åæ¡](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_32)*Â*[Updated 8/14/09]
   ["A pretty smuggler and her pathetic story"](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_319) [Posted 11/01/09]
 Â Â [A fashionable young lady gets caught with a half-ton of opium](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_247)Â [Updated 12/17/09]
   [Diving for opium in Puget Sound: a true story  ææ](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_69)*Â*[Updated 10/1/09]
***  Using opiumÂ***å¸ç
 Â Â [Opium equipment in the U.S., 1896 Â ç
å
·](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_56)Â [Posted 8/1/09]
 Â Â [How opium pipes worked](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_213)Â [Posted 10/8/09]
 Â Â [Opium pipe bowls hint at Chinese immigrants' middle-class values](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_211)Â [Posted 10/8/09] Â Â
 Â Â [Connoisseurs' pipe bowls from Yixing and Shiwan](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_237)*Â*[Updated 10/19/09]
*** Â Â***[Brand dominance in the opium pipe bowl trade](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_309)Â [Posted 10/27/09]
**Â Â Â**[North American opium lamps](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_333)Â [Posted 11/3/09]
 Â Â [Commerce in opium lamp chimneys](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_46)Â [Posted 12/1/09]
 Â Â [An addicted white prostitute testifies, 1885 Â ç
å](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_57)*Â*[Updated 8/17/09]
* Â Â*[How much opium did white Americans use? Â The Iowa case](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_90)*Â Â*[Posted 12/19/09]
**Â Â Â**[The opium addicts of Albany, NY](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_97)Â [Posted 12/21/09]
   ***Banning opium and curing addictsÂ***[ç¦ç, æç](#anchor_266)
   [Turning point: the 1909 Shanghai Conference ä¸æµ·ä¸å½ç¦çä¼](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_267) [Posted 10/15/09]
 Â Â [Addiction cures for North American Chinese](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_268)Â [Posted 10/15/09]
 Â Â [Curing addicts and outlawing the opium trade: the missionary connection](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_274)Â [Posted 10/19/09]
 Â Â [British Columbia defends Britain against Opium War slander](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_104)Â [Posted 12/28/09]
** Â Â****See above: opium pipe bowlsÂ**çæ**excavated in North America, from the famousÂ**
**   kilns of YixingÂ**å®å
´**(Jiangsu province), QinzhouÂ**é¦å·**(Guangxi province), and Shiwan/Â**
**   ShekwanÂ**ç³æ¹¾** (Guangdong province), as used by Chinese immigrants in the U.S. and**
** Â Â Canada, Â We believe these Shiwan examples to be among the first pipe-bowls fromÂ**
** Â Â that kiln center ever published, in or outside China.**
** Â Â*****[Opium and Anti-Chinese Propaganda](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_186)***
** Â Â**[Lurid pictures of opium dens](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_184)**[Â](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_184)****[Posted 05/30/10]**
** Â Â**[Exaggerating harm from opium use](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium-2.html#anchor_185)**Â****[Posted 05/30/10]**
**[Anti-Chinese Violence Â](Violence.html)**[æåæ´åäºä»¶](Violence.html)
Threats from, and actual violence by, local whites bent on ethnic cleansing were a fact of life for Chinese
immigrants in the Pacific Northwest. Â So why did Chinese come, though neither desperate nor poor? Â Why
did they stay with such stubborn bravery? Â One goal of this website is to seek answers to questions like
those.
** Â Â**[Violence against Chinese in the Pacific Northwest: a new list and map](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_101)Â [NEW 08/03/10]
    [The Anti-Chinese conspirators 1885-1887](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_147) [Posted 1/17/10]
 Â Â Â [The Anaconda explosions: Knights of Labor murder or private revenge? 1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_158)Â [Posted 02/01/10]
 Â Â [The Rock Creek Massacre 1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_75)Â [Posted 9/1/09, revised 7/6/11]
** Â Â**[The Squak (Issaquah, Washington) Massacre 1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_84)Â [Posted 01/14/10]
 Â Â Â [Coal and ethnic cleansing: driving Chinese from the Washington mines1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_173)Â [Posted 02/11/10]
 Â Â [Evidence: Squak and Coal Creek were connected 1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_179)Â [Posted 02/12/10]
 Â Â [The infamous "Tacoma Method" 1885](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_197)Â [NEW 06/30/10]
** Â Â**[The Seattle Anti-Chinese Riots 1886](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_60)Â [Updated 01/07/10]
 Â Â Â [Â Portland tries (and fails) to purge all Chinese 1886](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_127)Â [Posted 1/07/10]
 Â Â [The Deep Creek Massacre 1887](http://www.cinarc.org/Violence.html#anchor_67)***Â***[Updated 10/21/09]
[](http://www.cinarc.org/AYPE-Japan.html#anchor_138)**April 21, 2022. After several years of neglect, this site is being revived. Please be patient until updating is complete**
[](http://www.cinarc.org/Opium.html#anchor_69)
[](Opium.html)*Copyright  information**.  Nonprofit users are free to use text and original or out-of-copyright images from these web pages as long as they credit CINARC and ask subsequent users to do the same.  Images that are credited to other individuals or institutions, however, should not be reproduced without first consulting the owners.  For-profit users should get the permission of CINARC's editors before publication, in print or electronic form.*
click on topic for details)
**|1|****Â Â****[Opium Trade and Use é´çç](#anchor_251)**
**|2|****Â Â****[Anti-Chinese Violence æ´åæå](#anchor_210)**
**|3|**** Â****[Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition 西é
å¾åè§ä¼](#anchor_125)**
**|4|**** Â****[Detaining Chinese  æç¦å人](#anchor_252)**
**|5|**** Â****[Fishing æ¸ä¸](#anchor_253)**
**|6|****Â Â****[Chinese Empire Reform Association ä¿çä¼](#anchor_254)**
**|7|**** Â****[Smuggling Chinese å·æ¸¡å
¥å£](#anchor_255)**
**|8|**** Â****[Chinese Place Names in N. Am. åç¾æ´²å°å](#anchor_256)**
**|9|**** Â****[First Chinese in North America ææ©çå人](#anchor_257)**
[](#anchor_263)[](#anchor_264)[](#anchor_253)[](#anchor_252)[](#anchor_255)  Opium  Trade & Use   Anti-ChineseViolence    A-Y-P Exposition     Detention      Fishing      EmperorÂ
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html><head>
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Adobe PageMill 3.0 Mac"><title>Kirsten's Adventures</title>
<link rel="Shortcut Icon" href="/favicon.ico"></head><body style="background-image: url(bg.GIF);">
<center><b><img style="width: 483px; height: 58px;" alt="Kirsten's Adventures" src="title.gif"><br>
The below are the archived adventures of Kirsten, an 18-inch-tall girl from
1854,
and her friends.<br><br>If you're looking for crafts, please <a href="crafts/index.html">click here</a>!<br>
<br>
New installments of Kirsten's Adventures are located at <a href="http://kirsten.juliestudio.com">http://kirsten.juliestudio.com</a>. Yay!<br>
<br>
</b><b>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 129px; text-align: center;" width="132"><img style="width: 123px; height: 164px;" alt="Kirsten in her summer dress and garland sitting on Easter grass" src="newdex/1.jpg"> </td>
<td style="width: 471px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;" width="452"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><big style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);"><big>The
pioneering adventures</big></big></font><br>
</span><a href="032006.html"><b>3.20.06</b></a><b>
- Meet
Kirsten!<br>
<a href="032206.html">3.22.06</a> - Nice
and
clean!<a href="032706.html"><br>
3.27.06</a> - Kirsten's Work Dress<br>
<a href="040306.html">4.3.06</a> - The
Bread
Making
Adventure<br>
<a href="041006.html">4.10.06</a> -
Kirsten's
Laundry Adventure</b> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 465px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;" width="465"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><big style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);"><big>Mini Kit
and Pegleg Sally join the crew</big></big></font><br>
</span><b><a href="041906.html">4.19.06</a>
- Meet Mini
Kit!<br>
<a href="042706.html">4.27.06</a> -
Kirsten's
Dance<br>
<a href="050906.html">5.9.06</a> - Meet
Pegleg
Sally!<br>
<a href="051706.html">5.17.06</a> - The
Return
of
Mini Kit<br>
<a href="052006.html">5.20.06 part 1</a>
- Mini
Kit's Ohio Adventures
part 1<br>
<a href="052006b.html">5.20.06 part 2</a>
-
Mini
Kit's Ohio Adventures
part 2</b><br>
</td>
<td style="width: 129px; text-align: center;" width="135"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><img style="width: 122px; height: 162px;" alt="Kirsten in her work dress looking over Mini Kit's in her box." src="newdex/2.jpg"><br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</b><b><br>
</b><b>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 167px;"><img style="width: 164px; height: 133px;" alt="Kirsten in her summer dress, Mini Kit in a flour sack dress, Mini Nellie, and Pegleg Sally eat cupcakes." src="newdex/3.jpg"> </td>
<td style="width: 433px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);">Meet Mini
Nellie</span></font><br>
</big></big></span><b><a href="052606.html">5.26.06</a> - Meet
someone
else?<br>
</b><b><a href="060406.html">6.4.06</a>
- Hooray for the craft swap!<br>
<a href="061606.html">6.16.06</a> - Happy
birthday,
Kirsten!<br>
<a href="062106.html">6.21.06</a> -
Kirsten
gets
restrung.<br>
<a href="062206.html">6.22.06</a> - Happy
birthday
to the cheap lady!<br>
<a href="070906.html">7.9.06</a> - Road
trip
for
Kirsten!</b> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</b><b><br>
</b>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 448px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><big style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);"><big>Meet
Regular Nellie</big></big></font><br>
</span><b><a href="071606.html">7.16.06</a>
- Kirsten
visits
American Girl Place Los Angeles!<br>
<a href="080706.html">8.7.06</a> - How
Mini
Nellie
became Regular Nellie.<br>
<a href="082106.html">8.21.06</a> -
Upstairs
adventures.<br>
<a href="090106.html">9.1.06</a> -
Kirsten and
Nellie go outside!<br>
<a href="091606.html">9.16.06</a> - Out
of
sequence...but new stuff!!!<br>
</b><b><a href="092506.html">9.25.06</a>
- Still a rather peculiar sequence, but a pretty <i>yukata</i>
and a pretty
fairy.</b><br>
</td>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 152px;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><img style="width: 146px; height: 195px;" alt="Nellie, in her meet outfit, hugs Kirsten, in her midsummer outfit." src="newdex/4.jpg"><br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<b><br>
</b><b>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 152px;"><img style="width: 145px; height: 184px;" alt="Kirsten on stilts in Addy's Stilting Outfit and Nellie in her yukata with Samantha's white shoes with bows on them" src="newdex/5.jpg"><br>
</td>
<td style="width: 455px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(80, 20, 50);"><big><big>Presents
galore!</big></big></span></font><b><br>
<a href="101306.html">10.13.06</a>
- Lots of gifts for the girls, and my cheap display!<br>
</b><b><a href="102606.html">10.26.06</a>
- Happy birthday, Nellie!<br>
</b><b><a href="103006.html">10.30.06</a>
- Happy Halloween!<br>
<a href="121006.html">12.10.06</a> - Presents
for
all! (Thanks, Colleen!)<br>
<a href="2007/012807.html">1.28.07</a> - The
world's
latest Christmas album!<br>
</b><b><a href="2007/051707.html"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">5.17.07</span></a>
- Mini Kit is awesome! (And you thought the Christmas album
was late.)<br>
</b><b><a href="2007/061107.html"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">6.11.07</span></a>
- Mini Kit's Mini Party! (And thank you, Secret Sister!)<br>
<a href="2007/081907.html">8.19.07</a> -
Kirsten's
LATE birthday party.</b> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</b><b><br>
</b>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 436px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);">Travels</span></font><br>
</big></big></span><b><a href="2007/091807.html">9.18.07</a>
- Mini Kit's journey.<br>
<a href="2007/121507.html">12.15.07</a> - Mini
Kit
returns, and Kirsten's Chicago Adventure.<br>
<a href="2008/010608.html">1.6.08</a> -
Kirsten gets
greedy at Judi and Carly's.<br>
<a href="2008/033108.html">3.31.08</a> -
Kirsten at
the Swissotel!</b><br>
</td>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 164px;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><img style="width: 182px; height: 137px;" alt="Kirsten shoves Mini Kit into her doll box with Nellie looking on." src="newdex/6.jpg"><br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 130px;"><img style="width: 120px; height: 160px;" alt="Kirsten (in her dirndl outfit) and May stare each other down while Nellie watches." src="newdex/7.jpg"><br>
</td>
<td style="width: 470px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);">Here comes May</span></font><br>
</big></big></span><b><a href="2008/060308.html">6.3.08</a> - Kirsten ponders retirement.<br>
<a href="2008/060908.html">6.9.08</a> -
Meeting a
new girl?<br>
<a href="2008/080308.html">8.3.08</a> -
Kirsten's Xtreme!!!! Adventures<br>
<a href="2008/090808.html">9.8.08</a> -
Kirsten gets some time away.<br>
</b><b><a href="2008/100408.html">10.4.08</a>
- Movie night, with a visitor!<br>
<a href="2008/101808.html">10.18.08</a> -
Special news about Nellie.<br>
<a href="2008/102008.html">10.20.08</a> -
Happy birthday, Nellie!<br>
<a href="2008/122408.html">12.24.08</a> - A
Kirsten Carol<br>
</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 480px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);">A Mysterious Girl</span></font><br>
</big></big></span><a href="2009/080909.html"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></a><span style="font-weight: bold;"><a href="2009/080909.html">8.9.09</a> - Partying like it's 1855!</span><br>
<b><a href="2009/083109.html">8.31.09</a></b><span style="font-weight: bold;"> - G--g--ghost???<br><a href="2009/091809.html">9.18.09</a> - Mini Kit's Mini Pirate Hat Tutorial<br><a href="2009/093009.html">9.30.09</a> - Special news about Kirsten. <br></span>
<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span> </td>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 120px;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><img style="width: 113px; height: 151px;" alt="A dark image of a mysterious girl" src="newdex/8.jpg"><br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center; width: 130px;"><img style="width: 120px; height: 160px;" alt="Kirsten cradles Sari in her Checked Dress apron" src="newdex/9.jpg"><br>
</td>
<td style="width: 470px; background-color: white; vertical-align: top;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><big><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="color: rgb(80, 20, 50);">Plot? What plot?</span></font><br>
</big></big></span><b><a href="2010/050310.html">5.3.10</a> - Kirsten feels left out.<br>
<a href="2010/080810.html">8.8.10</a> - Kirsten continues her jealous rage.<br>
<a href="2010/103110.html">10.31.10</a> - Happy Halloween!<br>
</b><b>
</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">See more adventures at </span><b><a href="http://kirsten.juliestudio.com">http://kirsten.juliestudio.com</a>!</b><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">
<br>
This is an unofficial fan site and is not affiliated with Mattel or
American Girl.<br><br><a href="http://foiled-again.net/kirsten/"><img style="border: 0px solid ; width: 100px; height: 50px;" alt="Kirsten Fan" src="newdex/fan.jpg"></a><br><a href="facebook.html"></a><br></span>
</center>
</body></html> |
Kirsten's Adventures
**
The below are the archived adventures of Kirsten, an 18-inch-tall girl from
1854,
and her friends.
If you're looking for crafts, please [click here](crafts/index.html)!
New installments of Kirsten's Adventures are located at <http://kirsten.juliestudio.com>. Yay!****| | |
| --- | --- |
| Kirsten in her summer dress and garland sitting on Easter grass | The
pioneering adventures
[**3.20.06**](032006.html)**- Meet
Kirsten!
[3.22.06](032206.html) - Nice
and
clean - Kirsten's Work Dress
[4.3.06](040306.html) - The
Bread
Making
Adventure
[4.10.06](041006.html) -
Kirsten's
Laundry Adventure** |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Mini Kit
and Pegleg Sally join the crew
**[4.19.06](041906.html)
- Meet Mini
Kit!
[4.27.06](042706.html) -
Kirsten's
Dance
[5.9.06](050906.html) - Meet
Pegleg
Sally!
[5.17.06](051706.html) - The
Return
of
Mini Kit
[5.20.06 part 1](052006.html)
- Mini
Kit's Ohio Adventures
part 1
[5.20.06 part 2](052006b.html)
-
Mini
Kit's Ohio Adventures
part 2** | Kirsten in her work dress looking over Mini Kit's in her box.
|****| | |
| --- | --- |
| Kirsten in her summer dress, Mini Kit in a flour sack dress, Mini Nellie, and Pegleg Sally eat cupcakes. | Meet Mini
Nellie
**[5.26.06](052606.html) - Meet
someone
else?****[6.4.06](060406.html)
- Hooray for the craft swap!
[6.16.06](061606.html) - Happy
birthday,
Kirsten!
[6.21.06](062106.html) -
Kirsten
gets
restrung.
[6.22.06](062206.html) - Happy
birthday
to the cheap lady!
[7.9.06](070906.html) - Road
trip
for
Kirsten!** |**
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Meet
Regular Nellie
**[7.16.06](071606.html)
- Kirsten
visits
American Girl Place Los Angeles!
[8.7.06](080706.html) - How
Mini
Nellie
became Regular Nellie.
[8.21.06](082106.html) -
Upstairs
adventures.
[9.1.06](090106.html) -
Kirsten and
Nellie go outside!
[9.16.06](091606.html) - Out
of
sequence...but new stuff!!!****[9.25.06](092506.html)
- Still a rather peculiar sequence, but a pretty *yukata*
and a pretty
fairy.** | Nellie, in her meet outfit, hugs Kirsten, in her midsummer outfit.
|
**| | |
| --- | --- |
| Kirsten on stilts in Addy's Stilting Outfit and Nellie in her yukata with Samantha's white shoes with bows on them | Presents
galore!**[10.13.06](101306.html)
- Lots of gifts for the girls, and my cheap display!****[10.26.06](102606.html)
- Happy birthday, Nellie!****[10.30.06](103006.html)
- Happy Halloween!
[12.10.06](121006.html) - Presents
for
all! (Thanks, Colleen!)
[1.28.07](2007/012807.html) - The
world's
latest Christmas album!****[5.17.07](2007/051707.html)
- Mini Kit is awesome! (And you thought the Christmas album
was late.)****[6.11.07](2007/061107.html)
- Mini Kit's Mini Party! (And thank you, Secret Sister!)
[8.19.07](2007/081907.html) -
Kirsten's
LATE birthday party.** |**
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Travels
**[9.18.07](2007/091807.html)
- Mini Kit's journey.
[12.15.07](2007/121507.html) - Mini
Kit
returns, and Kirsten's Chicago Adventure.
[1.6.08](2008/010608.html) -
Kirsten gets
greedy at Judi and Carly's.
[3.31.08](2008/033108.html) -
Kirsten at
the Swissotel!** | Kirsten shoves Mini Kit into her doll box with Nellie looking on.
|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Kirsten (in her dirndl outfit) and May stare each other down while Nellie watches. | Here comes May
**[6.3.08](2008/060308.html) - Kirsten ponders retirement.
[6.9.08](2008/060908.html) -
Meeting a
new girl?
[8.3.08](2008/080308.html) -
Kirsten's Xtreme!!!! Adventures
[9.8.08](2008/090808.html) -
Kirsten gets some time away.****[10.4.08](2008/100408.html)
- Movie night, with a visitor!
[10.18.08](2008/101808.html) -
Special news about Nellie.
[10.20.08](2008/102008.html) -
Happy birthday, Nellie!
[12.24.08](2008/122408.html) - A
Kirsten Carol** |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| A Mysterious Girl
[8.9.09](2009/080909.html) - Partying like it's 1855!
**[8.31.09](2009/083109.html)** - G--g--ghost???[9.18.09](2009/091809.html) - Mini Kit's Mini Pirate Hat Tutorial[9.30.09](2009/093009.html) - Special news about Kirsten.
| A dark image of a mysterious girl
|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Kirsten cradles Sari in her Checked Dress apron | Plot? What plot?
**[5.3.10](2010/050310.html) - Kirsten feels left out.
[8.8.10](2010/080810.html) - Kirsten continues her jealous rage.
[10.31.10](2010/103110.html) - Happy Halloween!** |
See more adventures at **<http://kirsten.juliestudio.com>!**
This is an unofficial fan site and is not affiliated with Mattel or
American Girl.
[](http://foiled-again.net/kirsten/)
| http://juliestudio.com/kirsten/ |
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<IMG SRC="images/OnV.jpg" BORDER="0" ALT="Otaku no Video blu-ray cover"><br>
<IMG SRC="images/Megazine23Small.jpg" BORDER="0" ALT="Megazine 23 blu-ray cover"><br>
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<IMG SRC="images/AnimeC2.jpg" BORDER="0" ALT="<i>The Anime Companion 2</i> cover"><br>
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<P><font size="-1">My three books on anime and manga are out of print. <br>However they are available from many <a href="https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=Gilles+Poitras&title=&lang=en&new_used=*&destination=us¤cy=USD&binding=*&isbn=&keywords=&minprice=&maxprice=&publisher=&min_year=&max_year=&mode=advanced&st=sr&ac=qr">used book dealers</a>.</font></P>
</TD>
<TD VALIGN="TOP">
<H1>Gilles' Service to Fans Page</H1>
<P>I am a writer on Japanese culture. These pages are my stuff and have nothing to do with anything other than my obsessions and interests.</P>
<P>That said lets start with one of my major obsessions, Japanese popular culture, mostly anime, manga, and J-Cinema; which are in fact the major way non-Japanese are being exposed to Japanese culture these days.</P>
<P>These pages are also intended to be a different kind of fan service to anime and manga fans by providing information not readily found elsewhere.</P>
<HR ALIGN=LEFT>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><A HREF="#anchor102589">Author Activities</A>.</P>
<P><A HREF="#anchor104466">Supplements to Printed Works</A>.</P>
<P><A HREF="#Guides">Guides to Anime and Manga</A>.</P>
<P><A HREF="#anchor108432">San Francisco Bay Area Resources</A>.</P>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR ALIGN=LEFT>
<P><A NAME="anchor102589"></A><B><FONT SIZE="+1">Author Activities</FONT></B></P>
<blockquote>
<DL>
<DT> </DT>
<DT><A HREF="http://gillespoitras.blogspot.com/">KoyagidÅ Kanwa åå±±ç¾å é話</A></DT>
<DD>My blog where I chit-chat about my activities, thoughts, web updates, general news, other blogs and reflections on whatever catches my fancy.</DD>
</DL>
</blockquote>
<P><A NAME="anchor104466"></A><B><FONT SIZE="+1">Supplements to Printed Works</FONT></B>:</P>
<blockquote>
<DL>
<DT><a href="TokyoStroll/TSmain.html">Tokyo Stroll Supplement</a></DT>
<DD>This is a series of supplemental pages for my travel book Tokyo Stroll.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><A HREF="ACPages/ACmain.html">The Anime Companion Supplement</A></DT>
<DD><TABLE WIDTH="91%" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="3" CELLPADDING="0">
<TR>
<TD VALIGN="TOP">
<P>A web based supplement to my first and third books <I>The Anime Companion.</I> and <I><i>The Anime Companion 2</i></I>.</P>
<P> For easy browsing go to the: <A HREF="http://www.koyagi.com/ACPages/subjects.html">Topical / Subject Index</A></p>
<P>These books are not directly about anime and manga, rather they are about specific Japanese culture elements seen in many titles available in English. </P>
<p>
<b>NOTE</b>: While the The Anime Companion volumes are out of print they are not hard to find on the second hand market. <br>I recommend you <a href="https://www.bookfinder.com/?author=Gilles+Poitras&title=Anime+Companion">search on Bookfinder</a> for the best prices.<br>
Don't pay too much as in a few years I hope to have a revised and greatly expanded second edition published.
</p>
</TD>
<TD VALIGN="TOP"><IMG SRC="images/AnimeC.jpg"
ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" WIDTH="139" HEIGHT="181"></TD>
<TD VALIGN="TOP" ALIGN="RIGHT"><IMG SRC="images/AnimeC2.jpg" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0"></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></DD>
<DT><A HREF="AandESupl.html">Article and Essay Supplement</A>.</DT>
<DD>A supplement to some articles and essays I have written, mainly consisting of sources used and full citations of works mentioned.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><a href="http://www.koyagi.com/ACPages/bibliography.html">Japan Research - Secondary Sources</a></DT>
<DD>A bibliography of books I own that I have found useful in understanding Japanese cultural elements in anime, manga and live action entertainment. These are what I use when I add to the Anime Companion supplement.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
</DL>
</blockquote>
<P><A NAME="Guides"></A><B><FONT SIZE="+1">Guides to Anime and Manga</FONT></B><FONT SIZE="+1">:</FONT></P>
<blockquote>
<DL>
<DT><A HREF="Parents.html">Anime (and Manga) for Parents (and Other Grownups)</A></DT>
<DD>Parents (and other adults) are wondering what kids are getting into. What adults don't know can be problematic, also what they don't know includes great stuff the kids may not be watching but the adults could find enjoyable.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><A HREF="Libguide.html">Librarian's Guide to Anime and Manga</A></DT>
<DD>An introduction to anime and manga intended for librarians but hopefully of use to others.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><A HREF="recommended.html">Recommended Anime, Manga, Prose and Live Action Cinema</A></DT>
<DD>Originally a supplement to The Librarian's Guide to Anime and Manga and the Teacher's Companion to the Anime Companion. Now a separate section with notes to assist fans, educators, librarians and parents in the choosing of titles.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><a href="NavCM.html">Navigating Comic Market (and Comitia)</a></DT>
<DD>A guide to easily navigating the largest book related event in the world. Tokyo's Comic Market and the smaller Comitia.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><A HREF="teachers.html">The Teacher's Companion to the Anime Companion</A></DT>
<DD>A small guide on the web written to assist educators in the use of Japanese animation (anime) or comics (manga) in teaching about Japanese culture.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
</DL>
</blockquote>
<P><A NAME="anchor108432"></A><B><FONT SIZE="+1">San Francisco
Bay Area Resources</FONT></B><FONT SIZE="+1">:</FONT></P>
<blockquote>
<DL>
<DT><A HREF="SFshopping.html">The Shin Anime Shopper's Guide to the San Francisco Bay Area</A></DT>
<DD>A new guide to retail stores stocking anime and manga related goods in the SF Bay Area.</DD>
<DD> </DD>
<DT><A HREF="SFCulture.html">San Francisco Bay Area Japanese Culture Web Sites</A></DT>
<DD>A guide to Japanese culture related web sites in the SF Bay Area.</DD>
</DL>
</blockquote>
</TD>
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Gilles' Service to Fans Page
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| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Tokyo Stroll cover
Leiji Matsumoto book cover
Riding Bean blu-ray cover
Otaku no Video blu-ray cover
Megazine 23 blu-ray cover
The Anime Companion cover
<i>The Anime Companion 2</i> cover
Anime Essentials cover
Animatrix cover
Otaku-Unite cover
My three books on anime and manga are out of print. However they are available from many [used book dealers](https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=Gilles+Poitras&title=&lang=en&new_used=*&destination=us¤cy=USD&binding=*&isbn=&keywords=&minprice=&maxprice=&publisher=&min_year=&max_year=&mode=advanced&st=sr&ac=qr). | Gilles' Service to Fans Page
I am a writer on Japanese culture. These pages are my stuff and have nothing to do with anything other than my obsessions and interests.
That said lets start with one of my major obsessions, Japanese popular culture, mostly anime, manga, and J-Cinema; which are in fact the major way non-Japanese are being exposed to Japanese culture these days.
These pages are also intended to be a different kind of fan service to anime and manga fans by providing information not readily found elsewhere.
---
[Author Activities](#anchor102589).
[Supplements to Printed Works](#anchor104466).
[Guides to Anime and Manga](#Guides).
[San Francisco Bay Area Resources](#anchor108432).
---
**Author Activities**
[KoyagidÅ Kanwa åå±±ç¾å é話](http://gillespoitras.blogspot.com/)
My blog where I chit-chat about my activities, thoughts, web updates, general news, other blogs and reflections on whatever catches my fancy.
**Supplements to Printed Works**:
[Tokyo Stroll Supplement](TokyoStroll/TSmain.html)
This is a series of supplemental pages for my travel book Tokyo Stroll.
[The Anime Companion Supplement](ACPages/ACmain.html)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| A web based supplement to my first and third books *The Anime Companion.* and **The Anime Companion 2**.
For easy browsing go to the: [Topical / Subject Index](http://www.koyagi.com/ACPages/subjects.html)
These books are not directly about anime and manga, rather they are about specific Japanese culture elements seen in many titles available in English.
**NOTE**: While the The Anime Companion volumes are out of print they are not hard to find on the second hand market. I recommend you [search on Bookfinder](https://www.bookfinder.com/?author=Gilles+Poitras&title=Anime+Companion) for the best prices.
Don't pay too much as in a few years I hope to have a revised and greatly expanded second edition published.
| | |
[Article and Essay Supplement](AandESupl.html).
A supplement to some articles and essays I have written, mainly consisting of sources used and full citations of works mentioned.
[Japan Research - Secondary Sources](http://www.koyagi.com/ACPages/bibliography.html)
A bibliography of books I own that I have found useful in understanding Japanese cultural elements in anime, manga and live action entertainment. These are what I use when I add to the Anime Companion supplement.
**Guides to Anime and Manga**:
[Anime (and Manga) for Parents (and Other Grownups)](Parents.html)
Parents (and other adults) are wondering what kids are getting into. What adults don't know can be problematic, also what they don't know includes great stuff the kids may not be watching but the adults could find enjoyable.
[Librarian's Guide to Anime and Manga](Libguide.html)
An introduction to anime and manga intended for librarians but hopefully of use to others.
[Recommended Anime, Manga, Prose and Live Action Cinema](recommended.html)
Originally a supplement to The Librarian's Guide to Anime and Manga and the Teacher's Companion to the Anime Companion. Now a separate section with notes to assist fans, educators, librarians and parents in the choosing of titles.
[Navigating Comic Market (and Comitia)](NavCM.html)
A guide to easily navigating the largest book related event in the world. Tokyo's Comic Market and the smaller Comitia.
[The Teacher's Companion to the Anime Companion](teachers.html)
A small guide on the web written to assist educators in the use of Japanese animation (anime) or comics (manga) in teaching about Japanese culture.
**San Francisco
Bay Area Resources**:
[The Shin Anime Shopper's Guide to the San Francisco Bay Area](SFshopping.html)
A new guide to retail stores stocking anime and manga related goods in the SF Bay Area.
[San Francisco Bay Area Japanese Culture Web Sites](SFCulture.html)
A guide to Japanese culture related web sites in the SF Bay Area.
|
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You can also search my entire site:
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<title>The No Kill I - Sacramento Star Trek Punk Rock Band- www.nokilli.com</title>
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<p align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="gifs/nki-logo.gif" width="517" height="133" align="texttop" alt="Give 'em hell, Jim"></font></p>
<p align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32">
</font></p>
<h1 align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#FF0000">Take
it up with Star Fleet, lady!! </font></h1>
<p align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/crud.jpg" width="400" height="211"></font></p>
<div align="center">
<p> </p>
</div>
<p><font color="#000000" size="+1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Welcome
to nokilli.com, no wait, that's nokilli dot <a href="http://khaaan.com/">khaaan</a>.
It's such a happy world we live in.</font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's been a while since we've updated anything here. People say, "I thought you broke up years ago". We quit <em>looking</em> for shows years ago but we'll sometimes play when asked. There are 6 of us in this band, and we're all lazy. </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">We joined <a href="http://creativecommons.org/">Creative Content</a>. It basically says feel free to use our songs as long as you're not a Ferengi about it. You can use it, transmit it, play with it, abuse it, remix it and do what you want as long as you're not making money off them. As an example, the stuff that <a href="http://youtube.com/subscription_center?s=iKYv7FCNPTs">ChurchHatesTucker</a> put on youtube.</font></p>
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This music free to share under a <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed-music">Creative
Commons Music Sharing License</a>.
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<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="+1" color="#FF0000"><a href="nokilli/trekkies2_sacto.htm">Trekkies
2 Sacramento premiere - July 2004.</a></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The No Kill I is
a Star Trek punk rock band that's been around since 1993. Don't ask me why,
because I sure as hell don't know, but we were a <a href="hogan/index.htm">Hogan's
Heroes</a> band for a little while. Shows are usually pretty out of control
what with the booze and the destruction and the flames and the costumes and
the fights and the blood and the gore and the spitting. </font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">From a show at the
Capital Garage, "That wasn't even funny, they're just a bunch of drunks."</font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">We celebrated our
10 years as a band being filmed for<a href="http://trekkies2.com/"> Trekkies
2</a> on July 26, 2003. I'm sure you must've seen Trekkies. It's pretty danged
good. It would've been better if they filmed us for the 1st Trekkies back when
we were young loudmouths, because now we're all old retards, but gabba gabba
hey...</font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The best quote at
that show was after Cap'n Kirk had his pants pulled down. Some random girl,
"He's got prettier panties than me!" </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><a href="nokilli/trekkies.htm">Trekkies
2 Hollywood Premiere Review! </a></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><a href="nokilli/trekkies2_sacto.htm">Sacramento
Trekkies 2 Premiere & Soundtrack Review!!</a></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/shows.html">Check
out other show reports.</a></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">This chuckleheaded
site is mostly written by a chump with a hole in his head (another true story),
there's pictures and vital info scanned in. Names and places and events known
to none but ourselves. I use "known" in a theoretical sense because
Gornzilla, the Cap'n, and The Abe Lincoln are usually playing blacked-out drunk. No,
really. It's quite professional and if you don't remember doing something, you
don't regret it or even have to apologize. It's a lot like going back into time.
Time traveling through a bottle. </font></p>
<p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Cast and Crew:</b></font>
</p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/ed-hunter.htm">The
Singing Sassmaster</a> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">- Cap'n
Kirk. Or Cap'n Pike when he broke his leg and played in a wheelchair. We spray-painted
a box black and stuck it over him. He sat there looking vacant flashing his
lights. We had to pour beer into him. I love being in this band. Cap'n James Tequila Kirk. </font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/mike-kellogg.htm">Drumming
Duties</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> - Mr. Spock or sometimes
a Romulan, Andorian, or Evil Spock from Mirror Mirror</font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/karen-simmons.htm">Guitar
Diva</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> - Yeoman Rand. Man,
how'd we get a girl anywhere near Star Trek let alone a Star Trek band?</font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/dave-downey.htm">Keyboarding
Queen</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> - Sheman Rand (6
foot cross-dresser) So geeky, s/he owns a comic book store.</font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/mike-cinciripino.htm">Guitar
Geek</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> - The Hard Drinkin'
Abe Lincoln (if you catch that Star Trek reference you really are a geek). Formerly
Red Shirt Expendable Guy. Used to be Trekkie Guy. Used to be "Dr. McCoy"
with quotes, natch (not quote snatch). By the way, the real Hard Drinkin' Lincoln
is available on the internet. Look for it.
Well worth the 2 bits. Mr. Wong is even better and was also done by Icebox.</font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="inbred/people/dave-smith.htm">Bass
holder (not player) liquor pig</a></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
- Mugatu. Often Gornzilla. Doesn't know when to stop writing. </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Other crew:</b></font></p>
<p><font color="#FF0000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="hogan/trip.html">Baron
von Grizman</a> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> - The Red
Suit Expendable Guy That Which Writes the Funny Lyrics</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">For a while, Mr. Spock was in Amok
Time (Logan, we have a runner), and we had <a href="inbred/people/hal-maclean.htm">The
Orion Slave Girl Whom No Man Can Resist</a> on drums (s/he's too sweaty so we
left shim on the Planet of the <a href="http://www.proberecords.de/dingrec.htm">Ding
Dang</a>).</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/trekban.gif" width="560" height="31">
</font></p>
<p><img src="http://nokilli.com/rtw-bak/images/ds4.jpg"></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://nokilli.com/rtw/"><font size="+1">Geek
Around The World!</font></a> The Gornzilla dork who wrote most of this
site is riding a 40-year-old Ducati 250cc <a href="http://nokilli.com/rtw/">round
the world</a>. He started in October, 2004, blew up his bike in February 2005 (all hail New Zealand!) and is back in Sacramento saving up for 2008 -- Round 2: across the US, to England then Europe, Asia, and back to California. </font></p>
<h4 align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/trekban.gif" width="560" height="31"></font></h4>
<table width="80%" border="0">
<tr>
<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/history.html">History</a></font></td>
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<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/shows.html">Incredibly
True Show Stories</a></font></td>
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Events</a></font></td>
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<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
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<td width="86%">
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Log</a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/songs.html">Song
Lyrics</a></font></td>
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<tr>
<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/links.html">Reviews,
Links & Other Star Trek bands</a></font></td>
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<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/nki-tng.html">No
Kill I: The Next Generation</a></font></td>
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<td width="8%"> </td>
<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/shatner.html">Shatner
vs Heston</a></font></td>
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<td width="6%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/emblem.gif" width="32" height="32"></font></td>
<td width="86%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="nokilli/images/nokilli.wav">very
short (173k) No Kill I wav</a> You should listen to it, yup.</font></td>
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<p align="CENTER"> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://www.nokilli.com/">No
Kill I<br>
<br>
PO Box 2414<br>
Sacramento, CA 95812-2414</a><br>
916/237-7052
</font></p>
<p align="CENTER"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="nokilli/images/gornfight.jpg" width="200" height="160" alt="die gorn die"></font></p>
<div align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://startrekonline.trekconnection.com/masters/tslgen/rankem.asp?id=213" target="_blank"><img border=0 src="http://startrekonline.trekconnection.com/masters/tslgen/images/vote_large.gif" alt="Red Alert Top 200 Star Trek Sites"></a>
</font></div>
<p align="CENTER"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="me/index.htm">The
Gorn's other site:</a></font></p>
<p align="CENTER"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="me/index.htm"><img src="gifs/fancyhatlogo.gif" width="300" height="100" border="0"></a></font></p>
<p align="CENTER"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Updated April 17, 2007 </font></p>
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The No Kill I - Sacramento Star Trek Punk Rock Band- www.nokilli.com
# Take
it up with Star Fleet, lady!!
Welcome
to nokilli.com, no wait, that's nokilli dot [khaaan](http://khaaan.com/).
It's such a happy world we live in.
It's been a while since we've updated anything here. People say, "I thought you broke up years ago". We quit *looking* for shows years ago but we'll sometimes play when asked. There are 6 of us in this band, and we're all lazy.
We joined [Creative Content](http://creativecommons.org/). It basically says feel free to use our songs as long as you're not a Ferengi about it. You can use it, transmit it, play with it, abuse it, remix it and do what you want as long as you're not making money off them. As an example, the stuff that [ChurchHatesTucker](http://youtube.com/subscription_center?s=iKYv7FCNPTs) put on youtube.
[](http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed-music)
This music free to share under a [Creative
Commons Music Sharing License](http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed-music).
[Trekkies
2 Sacramento premiere - July 2004.](nokilli/trekkies2_sacto.htm)
The No Kill I is
a Star Trek punk rock band that's been around since 1993. Don't ask me why,
because I sure as hell don't know, but we were a [Hogan's
Heroes](hogan/index.htm) band for a little while. Shows are usually pretty out of control
what with the booze and the destruction and the flames and the costumes and
the fights and the blood and the gore and the spitting.
From a show at the
Capital Garage, "That wasn't even funny, they're just a bunch of drunks."
We celebrated our
10 years as a band being filmed for [Trekkies
2](http://trekkies2.com/) on July 26, 2003. I'm sure you must've seen Trekkies. It's pretty danged
good. It would've been better if they filmed us for the 1st Trekkies back when
we were young loudmouths, because now we're all old retards, but gabba gabba
hey...
The best quote at
that show was after Cap'n Kirk had his pants pulled down. Some random girl,
"He's got prettier panties than me!"
[Trekkies
2 Hollywood Premiere Review!](nokilli/trekkies.htm)
[Sacramento
Trekkies 2 Premiere & Soundtrack Review!!](nokilli/trekkies2_sacto.htm)
[Check
out other show reports.](nokilli/shows.html)
This chuckleheaded
site is mostly written by a chump with a hole in his head (another true story),
there's pictures and vital info scanned in. Names and places and events known
to none but ourselves. I use "known" in a theoretical sense because
Gornzilla, the Cap'n, and The Abe Lincoln are usually playing blacked-out drunk. No,
really. It's quite professional and if you don't remember doing something, you
don't regret it or even have to apologize. It's a lot like going back into time.
Time traveling through a bottle.
**Cast and Crew:**
[The
Singing Sassmaster](inbred/people/ed-hunter.htm) - Cap'n
Kirk. Or Cap'n Pike when he broke his leg and played in a wheelchair. We spray-painted
a box black and stuck it over him. He sat there looking vacant flashing his
lights. We had to pour beer into him. I love being in this band. Cap'n James Tequila Kirk.
[Drumming
Duties](inbred/people/mike-kellogg.htm) - Mr. Spock or sometimes
a Romulan, Andorian, or Evil Spock from Mirror Mirror
[Guitar
Diva](inbred/people/karen-simmons.htm) - Yeoman Rand. Man,
how'd we get a girl anywhere near Star Trek let alone a Star Trek band?
[Keyboarding
Queen](inbred/people/dave-downey.htm) - Sheman Rand (6
foot cross-dresser) So geeky, s/he owns a comic book store.
[Guitar
Geek](inbred/people/mike-cinciripino.htm) - The Hard Drinkin'
Abe Lincoln (if you catch that Star Trek reference you really are a geek). Formerly
Red Shirt Expendable Guy. Used to be Trekkie Guy. Used to be "Dr. McCoy"
with quotes, natch (not quote snatch). By the way, the real Hard Drinkin' Lincoln
is available on the internet. Look for it.
Well worth the 2 bits. Mr. Wong is even better and was also done by Icebox.
[Bass
holder (not player) liquor pig](inbred/people/dave-smith.htm)
- Mugatu. Often Gornzilla. Doesn't know when to stop writing.
**Other crew:**
[Baron
von Grizman](hogan/trip.html) - The Red
Suit Expendable Guy That Which Writes the Funny Lyrics
For a while, Mr. Spock was in Amok
Time (Logan, we have a runner), and we had [The
Orion Slave Girl Whom No Man Can Resist](inbred/people/hal-maclean.htm) on drums (s/he's too sweaty so we
left shim on the Planet of the [Ding
Dang](http://www.proberecords.de/dingrec.htm)).
[Geek
Around The World!](http://nokilli.com/rtw/) The Gornzilla dork who wrote most of this
site is riding a 40-year-old Ducati 250cc [round
the world](http://nokilli.com/rtw/). He started in October, 2004, blew up his bike in February 2005 (all hail New Zealand!) and is back in Sacramento saving up for 2008 -- Round 2: across the US, to England then Europe, Asia, and back to California.
####
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | | [History](nokilli/history.html) |
| | | [Incredibly
True Show Stories](nokilli/shows.html) |
| | | [Upcoming
Events](nokilli/nkinews.html) |
| | | [Photos](nokilli/photos.html) |
| | | [NKI
songs for free!!](nokilli/songs_mp3.htm) |
| | | [Recording
Log](nokilli/records.htm) |
| | | [Song
Lyrics](nokilli/songs.html) |
| | | [Reviews,
Links & Other Star Trek bands](nokilli/links.html) |
| | | [No
Kill I: The Next Generation](nokilli/nki-tng.html) |
| | | [Shatner
vs Heston](nokilli/shatner.html) |
| | | [very
short (173k) No Kill I wav](nokilli/images/nokilli.wav) You should listen to it, yup. |
| | | [Message
Board](http://members3.boardhost.com/evilgenius/) |
| | |
|
[No
Kill I
PO Box 2414
Sacramento, CA 95812-2414](http://www.nokilli.com/)
916/237-7052
[](http://startrekonline.trekconnection.com/masters/tslgen/rankem.asp?id=213)
[The
Gorn's other site:](me/index.htm)
[](me/index.htm)
Updated April 17, 2007
| |
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<font size="5">Alex Bickmore's</font>
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<i>Rare and Unique toys of the 70's, 80's, and 90's. From Transformers to Star Wars, He-Man & She-Ra</i></h3></center>
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Archive: Last Updated Working on it! 2019
<br><font COLOR="#0044cc">Store : CLOSED
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<br><b>The Super Toy Archive is a website that gives information and pictures of rare and unique toys. The Archive also has pictures and information of whole toy lines, to help people identify and see what toys are out there. We do our best to have the site constantly updated and cleaned of errors. To help the archive, we are searching for people with pictures of the toys in their collection! These toys can fill in gaps we have on regular listings, to the rare and unproduced pieces from any toy line! Don't hesitate to ask, odds are we'll put it up. Credit will always be given to the owner.
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<a HREF="http://toyarchive.com/STAForSale/NEW2001+/MainListing.html"><font size="7">Click Here: Collectible 80's - 90's Toys For Sale</a>
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<td><a HREF="Contributers.html"><b>Contributors</a></td>
<td><a HREF="WhatsNEW.html"><b>Whats New?</a></td>
<td><a HREF="Links.html"><b>Links</a></td>
<td><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/UnknownToys/UnknownToys.html"><b>Unknown Toys</a></td>
<td><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/UnknownToys/UnknownParts.html"><b>Unknown Parts</a></td>
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<a HREF="Submit.html"><b>Submit Pictures</a>
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<a HREF="Wanted.html"><b>Toys Wanted</a>
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<AHREF="Collections.html">Oddities</a></td>
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<a HREF="/Alex.html"><b>About Alex</a></td>
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<a HREF="BadDealers.html">Bad Dealers</a></td>
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<td><center><a href=http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Transformers2.html> <img src="TFheader.gif" WIDTH=260 HEIGHT=77 alt="The Largest Toy Archive on the Internet!" border="0"></a>
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<td><center><a href=Heman.html><img src="HemanSmallLogo1a.jpg" WIDTH=260 HEIGHT=105 alt="Looking for detailed information on toys? Right here!" border="0"></a>
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<td><center><a href=http://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Aliens.html> <img src="http://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/AliensLogoSmall1a.jpg" WIDTH=250 HEIGHT=90 alt="Largest Aliens Toy Archive!" border="0"></a>
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<td><center><a href=Starwars.html> <img src="SWheader.gif" WIDTH=240 HEIGHT=105 alt="Do not eat McDonalds, every fry will takes a minute off your life" border="0"></a>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3 link="#ffff33"><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Thundercats/Thundercats.html">THUNDERCATS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/BattleBeasts/BattleBeasts1.html">BATTLE BEASTS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Gobots/Go-Bots.html">GoBots</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Diaclone.html">DIACLONE</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="N Helvetica Narrow"><font SIZE=+2><a HREF="DungeonsDragons.html">DUNGEONS & DRAGONS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Misctoys.html">MISC.TOYS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/TMNT/NinjaTurtles.html">T.M.N.T.</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="SuperPowers.html">SUPER POWERS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/PrincessOfPower/SheRa.html">SHE-RA</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+2><a HREF="MegaBug.html">MEGABUG GLADIATORS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="IndianaJones.html">INDIANA JONES</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="CareBears.html">CARE BEARS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+2><a HREF="/BattlestarGalactica/BattleStarGalactica.html">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+2><a HREF="CabbagePatchKids.html">CABBAGE PATCH KIDS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="PoliceAcademy.html"> POLICE ACADEMY </a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="BattleBrawlers.html">BATTLE BRAWLERS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Tron/Tron.html">-----TRON-----</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Zoids/Zoids.html">:ZOIDS:</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Blackhole.html">BLACKHOLE</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Macross/Macross.html">Macross</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Gi-Joe.html">G.I.-JOE</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="N Helvetica Narrow"><font SIZE=+2><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Filmation/Filmation.html">FILMATION'S GHOSTBUSTERS</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Rambo.html">RAMBO</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="MegaMan/MegaManToys.html">Mega Man</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://toyarchive.com/TrashBagBunch/TrashBagBunch.html">Trash Bag Bunch</a></font></font></b> </center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="Props.html">Movie Props</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/MIMP/MonsterInMyPocket.html">Monster In My Pocket</a></font></font></b> </center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Dinosaucers/Dinosaucers.html">Dinosaucers</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/DinoRiders/DinoRiders.html">Dino Riders</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Photon.html">Photon</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Megaforce/Megaforce.html">Megaforce</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Predator/Predator.html">Predator</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Silverhawks/Silverhawks.html">Silverhawks </a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Robotech/main.html">Robotech</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Convertors/Convertors.html">Convertors </a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><a HREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Cadillacs&Dinosaurs/CadillacsDinosaurs.html">Cadillacs & Dinosaurs</a></font></font></b></center>
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<center><b><font FACE="Chicago"><font SIZE=+3><AHREF="http://www.toyarchive.com/Convertors/Convertors.html">------</a></font></font></b></center>
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<tr><td><small><i>-----This page Opened on Decemebr 28th, 1997-----</i></small></td></tr></table></center>
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<table border=1 width="100%" cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 bordercolor="#ff3300"><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=1 cellspacing=0 bgcolor="#ffffff" width="100%"><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=4 width="100%" align=center><tr><td nowrap><font face=arial color=#000000><b>Transformers on the Shelf: Other Realms </b></font></td></tr><tr><td nowrap colspan=2 align=center><font face=arial size=-1 color=#000000> [ <a href="http://H.webring.com/wrman?ring=transformersonth&addsite" target=_top>Join Now</a> | <a href="http://H.webring.com/hub?ring=transformersonth&id=6&hub" target=_top>Ring Hub</a> | <a href="http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&random" target=_top>Random</a> | <b><a href="http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&prev" target=_top><< Prev</a> | <a href="http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&next" target=_top>Next >></a></b> ] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
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<table border=1 width="100%" cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 bordercolor="#3333cc"><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=1 cellspacing=0 bgcolor="#ccffff" width="100%"><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=4 width="100%" align=center><tr><td nowrap><font face=arial color=#000000><b>Action Figures Ring </b></font></td><td nowrap align=right><font face=arial size=-2 color=#000000> by <a href="http://G.webring.com/cgi-bin/profile?y=david_graffius">david_graffius</a></font></td></tr><tr><td nowrap colspan=2 align=center><font face=arial size=-1 color=#000000> [ <a href="http://E.webring.com/wrman?ring=raulrdz&addsite" target=_top>Join Now</a> | <a href="http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=raulrdz&id=9&hub" target=_top>Ring Hub</a> | <a href="http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&random" target=_top>Random</a> | <b><a href="http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&prev" target=_top><< Prev</a> | <a href="http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&next" target=_top>Next >></a></b> ] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
<center><font SIZE=-1>NOTE: We know that there is no word in the English
language called "archive." It should be "archives" but 'archive' sounds
fine anyways.</font></center>
<pYes, all photos here that are of my toys, and or photos taken by me are copyrighted. I'm not gonna put up with anything. If you want to use a photo on another site, drop me a e-mail. For publication or profit making, YOU MUST contact me.
><p>
<p>
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SUPER TOY ARCHIVE
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Alex Bickmore's
SUPER TOY ARCHIVE
###
*Rare and Unique toys of the 70's, 80's, and 90's. From Transformers to Star Wars, He-Man & She-Ra*
| |
| --- |
|
Archive: Last Updated Working on it! 2019
Store : CLOSED
|
**The Super Toy Archive is a website that gives information and pictures of rare and unique toys. The Archive also has pictures and information of whole toy lines, to help people identify and see what toys are out there. We do our best to have the site constantly updated and cleaned of errors. To help the archive, we are searching for people with pictures of the toys in their collection! These toys can fill in gaps we have on regular listings, to the rare and unproduced pieces from any toy line! Don't hesitate to ask, odds are we'll put it up. Credit will always be given to the owner.
| |
| --- |
|
[Click Here: Collectible 80's - 90's Toys For Sale](http://toyarchive.com/STAForSale/NEW2001+/MainListing.html) |
|
[**Contributors**](Contributers.html) |
[**Whats New?**](WhatsNEW.html) |
[**Links**](Links.html) |
[**Unknown Toys**](http://www.toyarchive.com/UnknownToys/UnknownToys.html) |
[**Unknown Parts**](http://www.toyarchive.com/UnknownToys/UnknownParts.html) |
|
|
[**Submit Pictures**](Submit.html)
|
[**Toys Wanted**](Wanted.html)
|
Oddities |
|
[**About Alex**](/Alex.html) |
[Bad Dealers](BadDealers.html) |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [The Largest Toy Archive on the Internet!](http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Transformers2.html)
| [Looking for detailed information on toys? Right here!](Heman.html)
|
| [Largest Aliens Toy Archive!](http://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Aliens.html)
| [Do not eat McDonalds, every fry will takes a minute off your life](Starwars.html)
|
| **[THUNDERCATS](http://www.toyarchive.com/Thundercats/Thundercats.html)** | **[BATTLE BEASTS](http://www.toyarchive.com/BattleBeasts/BattleBeasts1.html)** |
| **[ROCKLORDS](Rocklords.html)** | **[GoBots](http://www.toyarchive.com/Gobots/Go-Bots.html)** |
| **[DIACLONE](Diaclone.html)** | **[DUNGEONS & DRAGONS](DungeonsDragons.html)** |
| **[MISC.TOYS](Misctoys.html)** | **[T.M.N.T.](http://www.toyarchive.com/TMNT/NinjaTurtles.html)** |
| **[SUPER POWERS](SuperPowers.html)** | **[SHE-RA](http://www.toyarchive.com/PrincessOfPower/SheRa.html)** |
| **[MEGABUG GLADIATORS](MegaBug.html)** | **[INDIANA JONES](IndianaJones.html)** |
| **[CARE BEARS](CareBears.html)** | **[BATTLESTAR GALACTICA](/BattlestarGalactica/BattleStarGalactica.html)** |
| **[CABBAGE PATCH KIDS](CabbagePatchKids.html)** | **[POLICE ACADEMY](PoliceAcademy.html)** |
| **[BATTLE BRAWLERS](BattleBrawlers.html)** | **[-----TRON-----](Tron/Tron.html)** |
| **[:ZOIDS:](http://www.toyarchive.com/Zoids/Zoids.html)** | **[BLACKHOLE](Blackhole.html)** |
| **[Macross](http://www.toyarchive.com/Macross/Macross.html)** | **[G.I.-JOE](Gi-Joe.html)** |
| **[FILMATION'S GHOSTBUSTERS](http://www.toyarchive.com/Filmation/Filmation.html)** | **[RAMBO](Rambo.html)** |
| **[Mega Man](MegaMan/MegaManToys.html)** | **[Trash Bag Bunch](http://toyarchive.com/TrashBagBunch/TrashBagBunch.html)** |
| **[Movie Props](Props.html)** | **[Monster In My Pocket](http://www.toyarchive.com/MIMP/MonsterInMyPocket.html)** |
| **[Dinosaucers](http://www.toyarchive.com/Dinosaucers/Dinosaucers.html)** | **[Dino Riders](http://www.toyarchive.com/DinoRiders/DinoRiders.html)** |
| **[Photon](http://www.toyarchive.com/Photon.html)** | **[Megaforce](http://www.toyarchive.com/Megaforce/Megaforce.html)** |
| **[Predator](http://www.toyarchive.com/Predator/Predator.html)** | **[Silverhawks](http://www.toyarchive.com/Silverhawks/Silverhawks.html)** |
| **[Robotech](http://www.toyarchive.com/Robotech/main.html)** | **[Convertors](http://www.toyarchive.com/Convertors/Convertors.html)** |
| **[Cadillacs & Dinosaurs](http://www.toyarchive.com/Cadillacs&Dinosaurs/CadillacsDinosaurs.html)** | **------** |
|
| |
| --- |
| *-----This page Opened on Decemebr 28th, 1997-----* |
[*[email protected]*](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection#46352e272231252732062f283223342725252335356825292b)
/
[*[email protected]*](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection#f39f8197809a879bb39a9d879681929090968080dd909c9e)
###
| -= Web Rings =- |
| |
| --- |
||
This [Collectible Toys WebRing](http://www.megsinet.com/patchz/)
site owned by
[Alex Bickmore](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection#780b10191c0f1b190c3811160c1d0a191b1b1d0b0b561b1715) and
[Mac Bickmore](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection#05676c666e686a7760456864662b666a68)
**[Previous](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=spawn1;id=344;prev)
[Next](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=spawn1;id=344;next)**
**[Random](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=spawn1;random)
[Next
5](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=spawn1;id=344;next5) [Index](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=spawn1;list)**
To get more info on how to get your site in this ring
[Click here](http://www.angelfire.com/in/toyswebring/index.html) |
|
**This** [The cool Action Figure WebRing](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3601/AF.HTM)site is owned by
[Mac & Alex Bickmore](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection#e08289838b8d8f9285a08d8183ce838f8d)
Want to join the [The Cool Action Figure WebRing](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3601/webring.htm#join)?
|
| --- |
|
[[Skip Prev](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=af;id=6;sprev)]
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[[Next](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=af;id=6;next)]
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| --- |
|
Please vote for me!Help my site get recoginized! Click on the pictures, and confirm!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[](http://www.collectibles100.com/cgi-bin/rankem.cgi?id=shadwcat)
[](http://www.collectibles100.com/cgi-bin/rankem.cgi?id=shadwcat)
[](http://www.collectibles100.com/cgi-bin/rankem.cgi?id=shadwcat)
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
| |
| --- |
| **Transformers on the Shelf: Other Realms** |
| [ [Join Now](http://H.webring.com/wrman?ring=transformersonth&addsite) | [Ring Hub](http://H.webring.com/hub?ring=transformersonth&id=6&hub) | [Random](http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&random) | **[<< Prev](http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&prev) | [Next >>](http://H.webring.com/go?ring=transformersonth&id=6&next)** ] |
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| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| **Action Figures Ring** | by [david\_graffius](http://G.webring.com/cgi-bin/profile?y=david_graffius) |
| [ [Join Now](http://E.webring.com/wrman?ring=raulrdz&addsite) | [Ring Hub](http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=raulrdz&id=9&hub) | [Random](http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&random) | **[<< Prev](http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&prev) | [Next >>](http://E.webring.com/go?ring=raulrdz&id=9&next)** ] |
|
|
NOTE: We know that there is no word in the English
language called "archive." It should be "archives" but 'archive' sounds
fine anyways.
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| http://www.toyarchive.com/ |
<html>
<script language="JavaScript"><!--//
function booyaw() {
addr = '';addr+='\74\101\40\150\162\145\146\75\155\141\151\154\164\157\72\154\145\147\157\100\145\162\151\143\150\141\162\163\150\142\141\162\147\145\162\056\157\162\147\76';return addr;}
//--></script>
<title>Linux Penguin - LEGO</title>
<body bgcolor=white>
<table border=0 width=257 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 hspace=5 vspace=5 align=right>
<tr>
<td><a href=http://www.linux.org/info/logos.html><img src=/lego/images/penguin/officialpenguin.gif width=257 height=303 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<small>Click on this image to learn more about the Linux Mascot. The image of 'Tux' is copyrighted to <a href=http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/>Larry Ewing</a>. It is used with permission.</small>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h2>"There's always something about penguins..."</h2>
Among geeks of various types the acronym 'LUG' might stand for a couple of things: 'LEGO User Group' or 'Linux User Group.' Maybe in some small way this model will bring those two groups closer together. Here is my LEGO creation of the Linux mascot: Linux Penguin.
<p>
The Penguin stands/sits 25 inches tall.
<p>
Talk about a lot of black bricks... when I finished, I barely had more than a dozen each of black 1x4's, 2x3's, and 2x4's (I started with hundreds of each). My white and yellow brick supplies were affected, of course, but nearly as much (since white and yellow bricks are more common in bulk tubs).
<p>
One interesting note about this model is that I actually built it from the top down. I wanted to make sure I got the head the exact size I wanted, so I started with it first and worked downward. I feared that this would be troublesome later into the model, but it actually posed no problems whatsoever.
<p>
Man, I'm really gonna have to take a break from LEGO.
<p>
<h3>Digital Pictures (click on thumbnails for larger views)</h3>
<table border=1 cellpadding=5 cellspacing=3>
<tr align=center>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_1.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_1s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_2.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_2s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_3.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_3s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_4.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_4s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
</tr>
<tr align=center>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_0.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_0s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_5.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_5s.jpg width=80 height=60 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_6.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_6s.jpg width=60 height=80 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
<td><a href=/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?penguin_7.jpg+lego/images/penguin><img src=/lego/images/penguin/penguin_7s.jpg width=80 height=60 border=0 alt=""></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>
<p>
<a href=index.html>Back to Eric Harshbarger's main LEGO page</a>.
</body>
</html>
|
<!--//
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addr = '';addr+='\74\101\40\150\162\145\146\75\155\141\151\154\164\157\72\154\145\147\157\100\145\162\151\143\150\141\162\163\150\142\141\162\147\145\162\056\157\162\147\76';return addr;}
//-->
Linux Penguin - LEGO
| |
| --- |
| |
| Click on this image to learn more about the Linux Mascot. The image of 'Tux' is copyrighted to [Larry Ewing](http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/). It is used with permission. |
## "There's always something about penguins..."
Among geeks of various types the acronym 'LUG' might stand for a couple of things: 'LEGO User Group' or 'Linux User Group.' Maybe in some small way this model will bring those two groups closer together. Here is my LEGO creation of the Linux mascot: Linux Penguin.
The Penguin stands/sits 25 inches tall.
Talk about a lot of black bricks... when I finished, I barely had more than a dozen each of black 1x4's, 2x3's, and 2x4's (I started with hundreds of each). My white and yellow brick supplies were affected, of course, but nearly as much (since white and yellow bricks are more common in bulk tubs).
One interesting note about this model is that I actually built it from the top down. I wanted to make sure I got the head the exact size I wanted, so I started with it first and worked downward. I feared that this would be troublesome later into the model, but it actually posed no problems whatsoever.
Man, I'm really gonna have to take a break from LEGO.
### Digital Pictures (click on thumbnails for larger views)
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
| | | | |
[Back to Eric Harshbarger's main LEGO page](index.html).
| http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/penguin.html |
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<p class="maintext">12-15-2021 - Amy Glier's Bio was added to <a href="http://medievalcookery.com/about.html">About the Cooks</a></p>
<p class="maintext">10-21-2021 - A searchable index to Volker Bach's translation of <a href="https://www.culina-vetus.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Registrum-Cocinae.pdf">Registrum Coquine</a> (Germany, ~1430) added to the <a href="http://medievalcookery.com/search/search.html">Medieval Cookbook Search</a></p>
<p class="maintext">06-15-2021 - Marco Gavio de Rubeis' <a href="http://medievalcookery.com/books.html#regis">Registrum Coquine</a> added to the <a href="http://medievalcookery.com/books.html">Recommended Books</a></p>
<p class="maintext">03-08-2021 - Ariane Helou's translation of Libro della Cocina added to the Online Medieval Cookbooks</p>
<p class="maintext">10-29-2020 - A link to Ein koch buchlein von allerley speiss added to the Online Medieval Cookbooks</p>
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<a href="./dictionary/">Dictionary of Middle-English Cooking Terms</a><br />
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<a href="./notes/fruit/fruit.html">Medieval Fruit Varieties</a><br />
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<p class="maintext">If you want to make a comminee of fish, take cumin and almonds, then grind them and temper with clear water and sieve them and put in with the fish. [Enseignements qui enseingnent a apareillier toutes manieres de viandes (France, ca. 1300 - D. Myers, trans.)] <small><em><a href="http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/display.html?ensei:26">(permanent link)</a></em></small></p><br class="all" />
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## What's New
12-15-2021 - Amy Glier's Bio was added to [About the Cooks](http://medievalcookery.com/about.html)
10-21-2021 - A searchable index to Volker Bach's translation of [Registrum Coquine](https://www.culina-vetus.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Registrum-Cocinae.pdf) (Germany, ~1430) added to the [Medieval Cookbook Search](http://medievalcookery.com/search/search.html)
06-15-2021 - Marco Gavio de Rubeis' [Registrum Coquine](http://medievalcookery.com/books.html#regis) added to the [Recommended Books](http://medievalcookery.com/books.html)
03-08-2021 - Ariane Helou's translation of Libro della Cocina added to the Online Medieval Cookbooks
10-29-2020 - A link to Ein koch buchlein von allerley speiss added to the Online Medieval Cookbooks
---
## Table of Contents
**Original Research**
[Medieval Recipes](./recipes/recipes.html)
[Medieval Menus](./menus/menus.html)
[Statistics from Medieval Cookbooks](./statistics.html)
[Notes & Natterings](./notes.html)
**Resources and Tools**
[Online Medieval Cookbooks](./etexts.html)
[Medieval Cookbook Search](./search/search.html)
[Dictionary of Middle-English Cooking Terms](./dictionary/)
[Food Related Paintings](./paintings.html)
**Sources and Recommendations**
[Medieval Spices Source Directory](./spices/spices.html)
[Medieval Fruit Varieties](./notes/fruit/fruit.html)
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[
*Fish Sausage*](recipes/fishsausage.html)
---
## Random Medieval Recipe of the Day:
If you want to make a comminee of fish, take cumin and almonds, then grind them and temper with clear water and sieve them and put in with the fish. [Enseignements qui enseingnent a apareillier toutes manieres de viandes (France, ca. 1300 - D. Myers, trans.)] *[(permanent link)](http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/display.html?ensei:26)*
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<meta name="Description" content="The A-4/V-2 Resource Site - The
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content="a-4,a4,a4/v2,v2,v-2,rocket,peenemunde">
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<center>
<table cols="2" width="1390" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
align="center" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="78%" valign="top" align="center"> <img alt=""
src="captureback.jpg" width="1089" height="396"><br>
</td>
<td width="22%" valign="top" align="center">
<center>
<div align="center"><img alt="" src="trials.jpg"
width="201" height="280" vspace="1" border="2"><br>
<br>
</div>
<font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:a4v2rocket@gmail.com"><u><b>V-Mail</b></u></a>
your<font size="-1"> </font>comments and
questions</font><br>
<br>
<b><u><font color="#006600"><a
href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/V2rocketcom/566563983365617"
target="_blank"><img alt=""
src="facebook-icon.jpg" width="170"
height="62" vspace="2" border="0"></a><br>
</font></u></b></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</center>
<div align="center"><img alt="" src="v2_line_breaker_1400_start.jpg"
width="1395" height="37"><br>
<table width="1390" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="10"
align="center" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="15%" valign="top" bgcolor="#333333"><font
color="#ffffff"><b><small><i><font face="Calibri">"It
was an unforgettable sight. In the full glare of
the sunlight the rocket rose higher and higher.
The flame from the stern was almost as long as
the rocket itself."<br>
<br>
"We have invaded space with our rocket and for
the first time. We have used space as a bridge
between two points on the earth; we have proved
rocket propulsion practicable for space travel.
This third day of October, 1942, is the first of
a new era, one of new transportationthat of
space travel."<br>
<br>
General Walter Dornberger</font></i></small></b></font><br>
</td>
<td width="70%" valign="top">
<p><font color="#000000"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-1"><img alt=""
src="timeline-rocket-break.jpg" width="65"
height="21"><big>German General Walter
Dornberger and German rocket scientist Wernher
von Braun were two men with a vision. The drive,
energy and resourcefulness of Dornberger, mated
with the ingenuity and passion of von Braun,
created one of the greatest technological
achievements of the last 100 years. The fact
that this achievement was the product of the
ruthless regime of Nazi Germanyand the fact
that many thousands of people died as a result
of its production and deploymentskews the image
of what otherwise would be considered a
monumental technological triumph.</big><br>
<br>
<img alt="" src="timeline-rocket-break.jpg"
width="65" height="21"><big>This is the A-4/V-2
Resource Site. It is devoted to one of the most
awesome weapons of WWII, the V-2 rocket. The V-2
or "Aggregat 4" was the first long-range
ballistic missile to actively be used in combat.
This huge German missile hurtled a one-ton
warhead 50 miles high and hundreds of miles down
range to its target. This site will try to give
you an accurate account of the design,
production and combat deployment of this weapon
during World War 2.</big></font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-1"><big> The legacy of the German V-2
ballistic missile represents the best and worst
of humankinds endeavors in the twentieth
century. </big></font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-1"><big>As fascinating as it was horrific,
historians and scholars have been debating the
real consequences of Germanys rocket weapon
development program for the better part of 70
years. Even today we are living in the V-2 era.<br>
</big></font></font></font></p>
<big> </big>
<p><big><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
color="#000000"><font size="-1"><big>In an
attempt to build a historical record, this
website will exclude any political agendas.
This website does not support ideology of
National Socialism. This website does
promote the education of many to the events
of the past and strives to balance the
rhetoric of the far right and far left on
this particular subject.</big></font></font></font></b></big>
<br>
</p>
</td>
<td width="15%" valign="top" bgcolor="#333333"><font
color="#ffffff"><small><b><i><font face="Calibri">"Throughout
1940 and 1941 the components of the V-2 were
developed and captive tests were carried out,
with and without controls. In fact, we had the
whole V-2 mounted in gimbal rings on the test
stand and tested the controls with jet vanes."<br>
<br>
"In June 1942 we made the first free-flight
test, which was a failure. The second was also a
failure in partit reached supersonic speed and
then broke up. The third one on October 3, 1942,
finally was a full success and traveled over 120
miles."<br>
<br>
Wernher von Braun</font></i></b></small></font><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<img alt="" src="v2_line_breaker_1400_start.jpg" width="1395"
height="37" vspace="7"><br>
<table width="1390" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="8%" valign="top"><img
src="makeup-icon-tall.jpg" alt="" width="120"
height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td width="17%" valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Design and
Makeup<br>
<font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font><br>
<font size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/design.html">Components</a></font><br>
</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-1"> 25-Ton Thrust <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/motor.html">Motor</a></font></b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
<br>
</font></b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" size="-1">Technical information to
be added soon.</font><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></b></td>
<td width="8%" valign="top"><img
src="markings-icon-tall.jpg" alt="" width="120"
height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td width="17%" valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Markings<br>
</font></b><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/markings.html">Schemes
and Camouflage</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1">Test Patterns
and operational schemes in detail.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font> </font></b></td>
<td width="8%" valign="top"><img
src="wvb-icon-tall.jpg" alt="" width="120"
height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td width="17%" valign="top"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Wernher
von Braun<br>
</font></b><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">As leader of rocket team, advocate
for space exploration, he developed the V-2
ballistic missile for the Nazis. Today, he is
controversial for ties to German war-time
industry and its use of forced labor during
WWII.</font></font><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/vonbraun.html">Engineer,
Scientist, Biography</a></font></font></b><br>
</td>
<td width="8%" valign="top"><img
src="peene-icon-tall.jpg" alt="" width="120"
height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td width="17%" valign="top"><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><b>Peenemünde</b></font><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b></b></font><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-2"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">Black<font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"> </font>project,
Heeresversuchsanstalt Peenemünde (Army
Research Center Peenemünde).<br>
<br>
</font></font></font></font><b><font
size="-2"><font size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/peene/peenemuende.html">Early
Days</a><br>
HAP 11<br>
Prüfstand VII<br>
October 3, 1942<br>
RAF Operation Hydra<br>
</font></font></b></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b><font
size="-2"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b><font
size="-2"><font size="-1"> </font></font></b></font>Peenemünde
Desolation</font><br>
</font></font></b><b> </b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><img src="antwerp-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">Tale of Two Cities</font></b></font><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-1"><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" size="-1"> </font></b>Antwerp<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">: </font><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/antwerp.html">City of
Sudden<font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"> </font>Death</a><br>
</font></font></b></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Target
London<font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"></font>Second Blitz<br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">The two
cities that suffered the most during the V-2
onslaught of 1944-45. Details of the
operations and the effects on each Allied
city.</font></font><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="blizna-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Blizna/Heidelager<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1">SS-Truppenübungsplatz
Heidelager and missile testing ground near
Blizna in Poland</font></font></font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1">, where V-2
field tests were conducted following the
bombing of </font></font></font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-2"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1">Peenemünde</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
<br>
Coming Soon</font></font></b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="mittelwerk-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Mittelwerk/Dora<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/mittel.html">Mittelbau
GmbH/Mittelbau KZ</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b>Concentration
Camp <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/mittelwerk-today.html">DORA</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Details
the slave labor used in the construction of
the Mittelwe<font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">r</font>k <font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">facilities</font>
and the <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">underground production of the
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">missile</font>
by the German SS</font></font></font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Times New Roman"; font-size:
medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></span></font><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><img src="backfire-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Operation Backfire<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/backfire.html">Operation
Backfire</a> Trials<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/AVKO.html">V-2
Division Surrender</a> (AVKO)<br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Post<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">war
Allied tests of the captured V-2<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">s</font>
by the British military under the
authority <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">of</font> SHA<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">EF
in late 1945.</font></font></font></font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><img src="remagen-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"> <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>V-2s on Remagen<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b>C</b>apture
of the Ludendorff Bridge<font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"> and the</font>
unconventional German counterattacks that
followed<font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">; which </font>includ<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">ed</font>
the tactical use of the V-2 rocket. Also the
story of the 284th Engineer Combat Battalion.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2s-on-remagen.html">V-2
attacks March 17, 1945</a></font></font></b><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><img src="bunkers-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"> <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Hardened V-2 Bunkers<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">Massive V-2 structures in France,
that were<b> </b>targeted heavily by the
Allies, remain even today.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/bunkers.html">Rocket
Coast</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b>Blockhaus
at <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/watten.html">Eperlecques</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wizernes.html">Wizernes</a>
La Coupole<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1">
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wiz-recce.html">Wizernes
Recce</a></font></font></b></font></font></b>
<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b>Roquetoire
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/leitstrahl.html">Guidance
Bunker</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/sottevast.html">Sottevast</a>
Cherbourg</font></font></b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><img src="counter-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"> <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Allied Counter<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">m</font>easures<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> Coming Soon<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><br>
RAF Operation Crossbow, along with RAF Fighter
Command and 2nd Tactical Air Force, efforts to
stop the V-Weapon menace.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="mobile-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"> <font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Mobile Firing Sites<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/mobileoperations.html">Mobile
Deployment</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/denhaag.html">Den
Haag</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/hellendoorn_dalfsen.html">Hellendoorn/Dalfsen</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/serooskerke-rijs.html">Walcheren/Rijs</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b>Burgsteinfurt<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/westerwald.html">Westerwald</a></font></font></b><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><img src="vehicles-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Battery Vehicles and Equipment<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> The V-2 site arrangement<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b>Battery
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2_vehicles.html">Vehicles/Equipment</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">V-2
battery vehicles and support equipment <font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">specifically
manufactured for mobile rocket operations.</font></font></font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"> </font><br>
<br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="timeline-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Firing Timeline<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1"><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/timeline.html"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">Firing Timeline
1944-45</font></a><br>
</font></font></b></font></font></b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1"><font
size="-1"><br>
Comprehensive list of all known operational</font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1"> V-2 l<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">aunches
compiled over the <font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">past
few decades.</font></font></font></font></font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b></font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="xplan-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>X-Plan/Firing Procedure<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/procedure.html">Firing
Procedure</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1">List of
launch preparations for V-2 operational
troops. Procedures, timing and arrangement.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><img src="models-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
<br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Scale Modeling<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/fr/fr_batterie.html">Modeling
the V-2 Battery</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> </font></font></b><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/fr/health.html">Modeling
and Your Health</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Modeling
the V-2 battery in 1/35th scale. Feature<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">s
excellent example<font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif">s of battery vehicles
and launch sites examples.</font></font></font></font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><img src="displays-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"> </td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>V-2 Displays Worldwide<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/survivors.html">Surviving
V-2 examples</a><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1">List of
surviving V-2s and equipment still remaining
in the world. It is one of the most rare
artifacts remaining from WW2.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="audvid-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Audio/Video<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"> Rare <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/aud_vid.html">audio
and video</a><br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Related
audio and video, possibly <font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">un<font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">known
to most.</font></font></font></font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
</font></font></b> </td>
<td valign="top"><img src="ref-icon-tall.jpg" alt=""
width="120" height="180"><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Reference Material<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">Comprehensive list of the best
available resources related the the history of
the V-2 rocket. Some out of print, most are
still available through used book sellers.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/reference.html">Books,
Magazines & Pamphlets</a></font></font></b><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><img src="links-icon-tall.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="180"><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><b>Related Links<br>
</b></font><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-</font></font></b><br>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1">Collected links over the years. If
you know of new related links that are not
listed here, let us know about them. Also,
report any dead links.</font></font><b><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
size="-1"><br>
<br>
</font></font></b><b><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font size="-1"> <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/v2links.html">Full
list</a> of interesting links</font></font></b><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<img alt="" src="v2_line_breaker_1400_start.jpg" width="1395"
height="37"><br>
<table width="1390" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" align="center"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="33%" valign="top" align="center"><a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/nasm.html"
target="_blank"><img src="new1b.jpg" alt="" width="449"
height="349" vspace="15" align="top" border="0"></a><br>
<font face="Arial" color="#ff0000"><strong><font
color="#000000"><font color="#ff0000">NEW:</font>
Update on V-2 restoration, Smithsonian Institution,
National Air and Space Museum <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/nasm.html">CLICK
HERE</a></font></strong></font></td>
<td width="33%" valign="top" align="center"><img
src="new2.jpg" alt="" width="449" height="347"
vspace="15" border="2"><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Unseen recce
photos over Wizernes <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wiz-recce.html">CLICK
HERE</a> </font></b><br>
</td>
<td width="33%" valign="top" align="center"><img
src="new3.jpg" alt="" width="449" height="347"
vspace="15" border="2"><br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">V-2s on
Remagen updated images <a
href="https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2s-on-remagen.html">CLICK
HERE</a></font></b><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<img alt="" src="v2_line_breaker_1400_start.jpg" width="1395"
height="37" vspace="4"><br>
<table width="1390" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="10"
align="center" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="15%" valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a
href="henk-add-pic-book.jpg" target="_blank"><img
src="henk-add-pic-booksm.jpg" alt="" width="204"
height="333" border="0"></a><br>
</td>
<td width="70%" valign="top">
<p><font color="#000000"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-1"><img alt=""
src="timeline-rocket-break.jpg" width="65"
height="21"></font></font></font><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#ff0000"><b> </b></font>
<b>Vergeltungswaffen in the Nederland </b>(V-Weapons
in the Netherlands). The deployment of V-1, V-2, and
V-4 from Dutch territory 1944-1945, by Henk Koopman. </font><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><a
href="https://www.flyingpencil.nl/product/vergeltungswaffen-in-nederland/"
target="_blank"><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Flying
Pencil NL B.V.</font></b></a> <br>
<font size="-1"><br>
In the last year of the war, thousands of V.1s, V.2s
and V.4s have been launched from occupied Holland to
targets in Belgium and England. Many attacks were
launched from Dutch territory. Author and authority
in the field of Vergeltungswaffen in the
Netherlands, Henk Koopman, has done research in
Dutch and foreign archives for decades. He also
visited the launch sites many times where detailed
investigations were required to determine the exact
location of these positions. All information the
author has gathered over the many years about the
use of the V-weapons in the Netherlands is finally
bundled into a complete overview work. The
publication is richly adorned with photographs and
map materialincluding previously unpublished
materialand with an extensive index it is a
reference work that should not be missing in the
collection of every WWII researcher and rocket
enthusiast.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1">Although
written in Dutch this book is easily understood by
English-speaking readers as it is heavily
illustrated with photos, maps, graphs, and tables. </font></font><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1"><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1">With more
than forty years of archival work, the author
has succeeded in shedding more light on the
known and unknown aspects of the deployment of
V-weapons in the Netherlands.</font></font> I
have known the author for twenty-five years and
gained much from his extensive knowledge about the
V-sites. We have walked the rocket sites in the
Netherlands and I always look forward to our next
visit. For many years enthusiasts have anticipated
this book and now it is finally available!</font></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1"><font
face="Arial,Helvetica">Book specifications:
"Vergeltungswaffen in the Netherlands" by Henk
Koopman; Hard cover; A4 format (215x280 mm); Dust
wrap; 336 pages; Eleven chapters; Five annexes;
Extensive index; </font></font></font><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size="-1"><font
face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
face="Arial,Helvetica">Details of the bank
account of Flying Pencil NL B.V.; IBAN:
NL04INGB0006054688; BIC: INGBNL2A (ING BANK);
Dutch Chamber of Commerce No.: 55256104; VAT
No.: NL851627699B01</font></font></font><br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flyingpencil.nl/contact/"
target="_blank"><b>https://www.flyingpencil.nl/contact/</b></a><br>
</font></p>
</td>
<td width="15%" valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff"><img
src="henk-add-pic.jpg" alt="" width="204" height="333"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<img alt="" src="v2_line_breaker_1400_start.jpg" width="1395"
height="37" vspace="0"><br>
</div>
<center>
<table cols="1" width="888" cellpadding="4">
<caption>
<center> <c <="" caption=""> </c>
<table cols="1" width="888" cellpadding="4">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<center>
<table cols="1" width="800" cellspacing="0"
align="center">
<caption><font color="#ffffff" size="-2">-
</font></caption> <tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font size="-1"><b><font
face="Arial,Helvetica">Special
Thanks:</font></b></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-2">Ed Straten, the late
Charles Ostyn, Bert Koopman, Detlev
Paul, Dr. Olaf Przybilski, Mikel
Shilling, the late Gerhard Helm,<br>
</font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-2">Henk Koopman, Dr.
Karl-Heinz Wellmann, Michael Imhoff,
Michel van Best, Mikael Olrog, the
late Volker Pelz, Paul Grigorieff,
Dr. Warwick Black,<br>
</font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-2">Alan Scheckenbach, Jirzy
Komprda, the late Cor Lulof, Claudio
Becker, Murray Barber, the late Ken
Hartman, Stan Druzynski, Michael
Keuer,</font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
color="#000000"><font size="-2">Raymond
Delcommune, Andy Micklethwaite,
Michael J. Neufeld, Jan Harm ter
Brugge, Reiner Sigmund, Laurent
Bailleul and John Pridige.</font></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font color="#ffffff"><font
size="-2">-</font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
size="-2">www.v2rocket.com © T
Dungan / Broth<font color="#000000">ers
Designs</font></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
color="#000000"><font size="-2">Member
International V-2 Research Group</font></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font
color="#ffffff"><font size="-2">--</font></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</center>
<center>
<table>
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<tr>
<td>
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|
V2ROCKET.COM - The A-4/V-2 Resource Site - The V-2 Rocket
a:hover { color: red }
<!--//-->
| | |
| --- | --- |
| |
[**V-Mail**](mailto:a4v2rocket@gmail.com)
your comments and
questions
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| ***"It
was an unforgettable sight. In the full glare of
the sunlight the rocket rose higher and higher.
The flame from the stern was almost as long as
the rocket itself."
"We have invaded space with our rocket and for
the first time. We have used space as a bridge
between two points on the earth; we have proved
rocket propulsion practicable for space travel.
This third day of October, 1942, is the first of
a new era, one of new transportationthat of
space travel."
General Walter Dornberger*** | German General Walter
Dornberger and German rocket scientist Wernher
von Braun were two men with a vision. The drive,
energy and resourcefulness of Dornberger, mated
with the ingenuity and passion of von Braun,
created one of the greatest technological
achievements of the last 100 years. The fact
that this achievement was the product of the
ruthless regime of Nazi Germanyand the fact
that many thousands of people died as a result
of its production and deploymentskews the image
of what otherwise would be considered a
monumental technological triumph.
This is the A-4/V-2
Resource Site. It is devoted to one of the most
awesome weapons of WWII, the V-2 rocket. The V-2
or "Aggregat 4" was the first long-range
ballistic missile to actively be used in combat.
This huge German missile hurtled a one-ton
warhead 50 miles high and hundreds of miles down
range to its target. This site will try to give
you an accurate account of the design,
production and combat deployment of this weapon
during World War 2. The legacy of the German V-2
ballistic missile represents the best and worst
of humankinds endeavors in the twentieth
century. As fascinating as it was horrific,
historians and scholars have been debating the
real consequences of Germanys rocket weapon
development program for the better part of 70
years. Even today we are living in the V-2 era.
**In an
attempt to build a historical record, this
website will exclude any political agendas.
This website does not support ideology of
National Socialism. This website does
promote the education of many to the events
of the past and strives to balance the
rhetoric of the far right and far left on
this particular subject.**
| ***"Throughout
1940 and 1941 the components of the V-2 were
developed and captive tests were carried out,
with and without controls. In fact, we had the
whole V-2 mounted in gimbal rings on the test
stand and tested the controls with jet vanes."
"In June 1942 we made the first free-flight
test, which was a failure. The second was also a
failure in partit reached supersonic speed and
then broke up. The third one on October 3, 1942,
finally was a full success and traveled over 120
miles."
Wernher von Braun*** |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| **Design and
Makeup
-
[Components](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/design.html)
25-Ton Thrust [Motor](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/motor.html)**Technical information to
be added soon. |
| **Markings****-**
** [Schemes
and Camouflage](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/markings.html)**Test Patterns
and operational schemes in detail. |
| **Wernher
von Braun****-**
As leader of rocket team, advocate
for space exploration, he developed the V-2
ballistic missile for the Nazis. Today, he is
controversial for ties to German war-time
industry and its use of forced labor during
WWII.** [Engineer,
Scientist, Biography](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/vonbraun.html)** |
| **Peenemünde**
****-****
Black project,
Heeresversuchsanstalt Peenemünde (Army
Research Center Peenemünde).
** [Early
Days](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/peene/peenemuende.html)
HAP 11
Prüfstand VII
October 3, 1942
RAF Operation Hydra******** Peenemünde
Desolation** |
|
| **Tale of Two Cities**
**-**
****** Antwerp: [City of
Sudden Death](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/antwerp.html)****
Target
LondonSecond Blitz**The two
cities that suffered the most during the V-2
onslaught of 1944-45. Details of the
operations and the effects on each Allied
city. |
| **Blizna/Heidelager****-**
SS-Truppenübungsplatz
Heidelager and missile testing ground near
Blizna in Poland, where V-2
field tests were conducted following the
bombing of Peenemünde.** Coming Soon** |
| **Mittelwerk/Dora****-**
** [Mittelbau
GmbH/Mittelbau KZ](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/mittel.html)******** Concentration
Camp [DORA](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/mittelwerk-today.html)**Details
the slave labor used in the construction of
the Mittelwerk facilities
and the underground production of the
missile
by the German SS |
| **Operation Backfire****-**
** [Operation
Backfire](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/backfire.html) Trials******** [V-2
Division Surrender](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/makeup/AVKO.html) (AVKO)**Postwar
Allied tests of the captured V-2s
by the British military under the
authority of SHAEF
in late 1945. |
| | **V-2s on Remagen****-****C**apture
of the Ludendorff Bridge and the
unconventional German counterattacks that
followed; which included
the tactical use of the V-2 rocket. Also the
story of the 284th Engineer Combat Battalion.** [V-2
attacks March 17, 1945](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2s-on-remagen.html)** |
| **Hardened V-2 Bunkers****-**
Massive V-2 structures in France,
that weretargeted heavily by the
Allies, remain even today.** [Rocket
Coast](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/bunkers.html)******** Blockhaus
at [Eperlecques](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/watten.html)******** [Wizernes](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wizernes.html)
La Coupole********
[Wizernes
Recce](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wiz-recce.html)************ Roquetoire
[Guidance
Bunker](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/leitstrahl.html)******** [Sottevast](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/sottevast.html)
Cherbourg** | | **Allied Countermeasures****-**
** Coming Soon**
RAF Operation Crossbow, along with RAF Fighter
Command and 2nd Tactical Air Force, efforts to
stop the V-Weapon menace. |
| **Mobile Firing Sites****-**
** [Mobile
Deployment](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/mobileoperations.html)******** [Den
Haag](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/denhaag.html)******** [Hellendoorn/Dalfsen](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/hellendoorn_dalfsen.html)******** [Walcheren/Rijs](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/serooskerke-rijs.html)******** Burgsteinfurt******** [Westerwald](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/westerwald.html)** |
|
| **Battery Vehicles and Equipment****-**
** The V-2 site arrangement******** Battery
[Vehicles/Equipment](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2_vehicles.html)**V-2
battery vehicles and support equipment specifically
manufactured for mobile rocket operations. |
| **Firing Timeline****-**
**** ****[Firing Timeline
1944-45](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/timeline.html)****
Comprehensive list of all known operational V-2 launches
compiled over the past
few decades. |
| **X-Plan/Firing Procedure****-**
** [Firing
Procedure](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/procedure.html)**List of
launch preparations for V-2 operational
troops. Procedures, timing and arrangement. |
| **Scale Modeling****-**
** [Modeling
the V-2 Battery](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/fr/fr_batterie.html)******** [Modeling
and Your Health](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/scale/fr/health.html)**Modeling
the V-2 battery in 1/35th scale. Features
excellent examples of battery vehicles
and launch sites examples. |
| | **V-2 Displays Worldwide****-**
** [Surviving
V-2 examples](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/survivors.html)**List of
surviving V-2s and equipment still remaining
in the world. It is one of the most rare
artifacts remaining from WW2. | | **Audio/Video****-**
** Rare [audio
and video](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/aud_vid.html)**Related
audio and video, possibly unknown
to most. | | **Reference Material****-**
Comprehensive list of the best
available resources related the the history of
the V-2 rocket. Some out of print, most are
still available through used book sellers.** [Books,
Magazines & Pamphlets](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/reference.html)** | | **Related Links****-**
Collected links over the years. If
you know of new related links that are not
listed here, let us know about them. Also,
report any dead links.** [Full
list](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/v2links.html) of interesting links** |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
**NEW:
Update on V-2 restoration, Smithsonian Institution,
National Air and Space Museum [CLICK
HERE](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/nasm.html)** |
**Unseen recce
photos over Wizernes [CLICK
HERE](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/wiz-recce.html)** |
**V-2s on
Remagen updated images [CLICK
HERE](https://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/v2s-on-remagen.html)** |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| |
**Vergeltungswaffen in the Nederland** (V-Weapons
in the Netherlands). The deployment of V-1, V-2, and
V-4 from Dutch territory 1944-1945, by Henk Koopman. [**Flying
Pencil NL B.V.**](https://www.flyingpencil.nl/product/vergeltungswaffen-in-nederland/)
In the last year of the war, thousands of V.1s, V.2s
and V.4s have been launched from occupied Holland to
targets in Belgium and England. Many attacks were
launched from Dutch territory. Author and authority
in the field of Vergeltungswaffen in the
Netherlands, Henk Koopman, has done research in
Dutch and foreign archives for decades. He also
visited the launch sites many times where detailed
investigations were required to determine the exact
location of these positions. All information the
author has gathered over the many years about the
use of the V-weapons in the Netherlands is finally
bundled into a complete overview work. The
publication is richly adorned with photographs and
map materialincluding previously unpublished
materialand with an extensive index it is a
reference work that should not be missing in the
collection of every WWII researcher and rocket
enthusiast.
Although
written in Dutch this book is easily understood by
English-speaking readers as it is heavily
illustrated with photos, maps, graphs, and tables. With more
than forty years of archival work, the author
has succeeded in shedding more light on the
known and unknown aspects of the deployment of
V-weapons in the Netherlands. I
have known the author for twenty-five years and
gained much from his extensive knowledge about the
V-sites. We have walked the rocket sites in the
Netherlands and I always look forward to our next
visit. For many years enthusiasts have anticipated
this book and now it is finally available!
Book specifications:
"Vergeltungswaffen in the Netherlands" by Henk
Koopman; Hard cover; A4 format (215x280 mm); Dust
wrap; 336 pages; Eleven chapters; Five annexes;
Extensive index; Details of the bank
account of Flying Pencil NL B.V.; IBAN:
NL04INGB0006054688; BIC: INGBNL2A (ING BANK);
Dutch Chamber of Commerce No.: 55256104; VAT
No.: NL851627699B01
[**https://www.flyingpencil.nl/contact/**](https://www.flyingpencil.nl/contact/)
| |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
-
| **Special
Thanks:** |
| Ed Straten, the late
Charles Ostyn, Bert Koopman, Detlev
Paul, Dr. Olaf Przybilski, Mikel
Shilling, the late Gerhard Helm,
|
| Henk Koopman, Dr.
Karl-Heinz Wellmann, Michael Imhoff,
Michel van Best, Mikael Olrog, the
late Volker Pelz, Paul Grigorieff,
Dr. Warwick Black,
|
| Alan Scheckenbach, Jirzy
Komprda, the late Cor Lulof, Claudio
Becker, Murray Barber, the late Ken
Hartman, Stan Druzynski, Michael
Keuer, |
| Raymond
Delcommune, Andy Micklethwaite,
Michael J. Neufeld, Jan Harm ter
Brugge, Reiner Sigmund, Laurent
Bailleul and John Pridige. |
| - |
| www.v2rocket.com © T
Dungan / Brothers
Designs |
| Member
International V-2 Research Group |
| -- |
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<h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading" lang="en">The Cutting Room Floor</h1>
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<div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From The Cutting Room Floor</div>
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<p><b>The Cutting Room Floor</b> is a site dedicated to unearthing and researching unused and cut content from video games. From debug menus, to unused music, graphics, enemies, or levels, many games have content never meant to be seen by anybody but the developers — or even meant for everybody, but cut due to time/budget constraints.
</p><p>Feel free to browse our <a href="/Category:Games" title="Category:Games">collection of games</a> and start reading. Up for research? Try looking at <a href="/Category:Stubs" title="Category:Stubs">some stubs</a> and see if you can help us out. Just have some faint memory of some unused menu/level you saw years ago but can't remember how to access it? Feel free to start a page with what you saw and we'll take a look. If you want to help keep this site running and help further research into games, <a href="/The_Cutting_Room_Floor:Donate" title="The Cutting Room Floor:Donate">feel free to donate</a>.
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<div class="floatleft"><a href="/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door"><img alt="PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png" src="/images/thumb/3/3e/PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png/140px-PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png" decoding="async" width="140" height="112" srcset="/images/thumb/3/3e/PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png/210px-PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png 1.5x, /images/thumb/3/3e/PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png/280px-PMTTYDRisingFloorClock.png 2x" /></a></div>
<h3><span class="mw-headline" id="Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door"><div style="font-size: 125%; line-height: 125%; float:left; width:80%;"><i><b><a href="/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door">Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door</a></b></i></div><div style="text-align: right; float:left;width:20%"><a href="/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="This article has a 'Main' page!"><img alt="This article has a 'Main' page!" src="/images/3/3d/Cactisprite.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" /></a><a href="/Proto:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="This article has a 'Proto' page!"><img alt="This article has a 'Proto' page!" src="/images/9/91/ProtoIcon.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" /></a><a href="/Prerelease:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="This article has a 'Prerelease' page!"><img alt="This article has a 'Prerelease' page!" src="/images/8/83/PrereleaseIcon.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" /></a><a href="/Notes:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="This article has a 'Notes' page!"><img alt="This article has a 'Notes' page!" src="/images/1/14/NotesIcon.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" /></a></div></span></h3>
<p>Developer: <b>Nintendo</b>, <b>Intelligent Systems</b><br />
Publisher: <b>Nintendo</b><br />
Released: 2004, <b><a href="/Category:GameCube_games" title="Category:GameCube games">GameCube</a></b>
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<p><i><b><a href="/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door">Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door</a></b></i> is the sequel to the original Paper Mario game, which was released for the GameCube. As big as the success was with the previous game, the follow-up is considered to be the best of the spin-off franchise by fans, due to it expanding on what was settled in the original such as bigger maps, improved graphics and details and a brand new post-game quest.
</p><p>The game has appeared to have undergone a wealth of balance changes and scrapped enemies, along with some unused characters and items that never appear in the final game! There's also a bunch of overlooked and unseen oddities, considering the amount of detail this game had received during development.
</p><p><a href="/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door" title="Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door">Read more...</a>
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<li>...that <i><a href="/Kowloon_Youma_Gakuenki#Unused_Graphics" title="Kowloon Youma Gakuenki">Kowloon Youma Gakuenki</a></i> has an image of Michael Jackson on a tricycle?</li>
<li>...that at least <i><a href="/Category:Games_released_on_December_27" title="Category:Games released on December 27">33</a></i> games released on today's date have articles?</li></ul>
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<p>Want to contribute? Not sure where to begin? Visit the <a href="/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help page</a> for everything you need to get started, including...
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<p>This room is called <b>ちゅうスタロフォスベや</b> (Stalfos Miniboss Room), or "syotes" (short for 'show test'). Though this room wasn't seen in the Shoshinkai trailer, the interface and footage from Kun Kun indicates that it belongs in the same batch of screenshots. This blue and brown-tiled chamber has light streaming through the windows and a raised dais at the far end of the room, along with a non-functional double door textured into the wall.
</p><p>Despite the fact that it was removed from the released version of <i><a href="/Ocarina_of_Time" class="mw-redirect" title="Ocarina of Time">Ocarina of Time</a></i>, it was re-added to the leaked <a href="/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_Master_Quest" title="Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest"><i>Ocarina of Time: Master Quest Debug ROM</i></a>, in which it can <a href="/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_Master_Quest/Test_Maps#Room_120:_Stalfos_Miniboss_Room" title="Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest/Test Maps">be accessed</a> by using the map select menu.
</p><p>The Debug ROM build of the room lacks a header, leaving it unknown which objects and music was in by default. The room was also found in the <a href="/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump/3D_Maps#Syotes" title="Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Late 1997 Overdump/3D Maps">1997 overdump</a>, however, with its actor and object files partially intact, most notably having Tailapsarans present.
</p><p><a href="/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/A_%2B_B" title="Prerelease:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/A + B">View more...</a>
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# The Cutting Room Floor
From The Cutting Room Floor
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Welcome to The Cutting Room Floor. [27,696](/Special:Statistics "Special:Statistics") articles and [counting!](/The_Cutting_Room_Floor:Statistics "The Cutting Room Floor:Statistics")
**The Cutting Room Floor** is a site dedicated to unearthing and researching unused and cut content from video games. From debug menus, to unused music, graphics, enemies, or levels, many games have content never meant to be seen by anybody but the developers — or even meant for everybody, but cut due to time/budget constraints.
Feel free to browse our [collection of games](/Category:Games "Category:Games") and start reading. Up for research? Try looking at [some stubs](/Category:Stubs "Category:Stubs") and see if you can help us out. Just have some faint memory of some unused menu/level you saw years ago but can't remember how to access it? Feel free to start a page with what you saw and we'll take a look. If you want to help keep this site running and help further research into games, [feel free to donate](/The_Cutting_Room_Floor:Donate "The Cutting Room Floor:Donate").
[Suggestions?](https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Category_talk:Featured_articles&action=edit§ion=new)
## Featured Article
[](/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door")
### ***[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door](/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door")***[This article has a 'Main' page!](/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "This article has a 'Main' page!")[This article has a 'Proto' page!](/Proto:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "This article has a 'Proto' page!")[This article has a 'Prerelease' page!](/Prerelease:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "This article has a 'Prerelease' page!")[This article has a 'Notes' page!](/Notes:Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "This article has a 'Notes' page!")
Developer: **Nintendo**, **Intelligent Systems**
Publisher: **Nintendo**
Released: 2004, **[GameCube](/Category:GameCube_games "Category:GameCube games")**
***[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door](/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door")*** is the sequel to the original Paper Mario game, which was released for the GameCube. As big as the success was with the previous game, the follow-up is considered to be the best of the spin-off franchise by fans, due to it expanding on what was settled in the original such as bigger maps, improved graphics and details and a brand new post-game quest.
The game has appeared to have undergone a wealth of balance changes and scrapped enemies, along with some unused characters and items that never appear in the final game! There's also a bunch of overlooked and unseen oddities, considering the amount of detail this game had received during development.
[Read more...](/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door")
[All Featured Blurbs](/Category:FeaturedBlurbs "Category:FeaturedBlurbs")[All Featured Articles](/Category:Featured_articles "Category:Featured articles")
[Suggestions?](https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:DidYouKnow&action=edit§ion=new)## Did You Know...
* ...that *[Mickey Mania](/Mickey_Mania:_The_Timeless_Adventures_of_Mickey_Mouse_(Genesis) "Mickey Mania: The Timeless Adventures of Mickey Mouse (Genesis)")* on the Genesis has a special message that can only be seen by changing the region of the console **after** the game has loaded?
* ...that *[LEGOLAND](/LEGOLAND "LEGOLAND")* once had a difficulty system based on age?
* ...that Side B of the Apple II *[Karateka](/Karateka_(Apple_II) "Karateka (Apple II)")* diskette has an upside-down version of the game?
* ...that *[Journey to Silius](/Journey_to_Silius "Journey to Silius")* started out as a *Terminator* game?
* ...that *[Mortal Kombat II](/Mortal_Kombat_II_(Arcade) "Mortal Kombat II (Arcade)")* and *[Mortal Kombat 3](/Mortal_Kombat_3_(Arcade) "Mortal Kombat 3 (Arcade)")* have fake character names that were deliberately put in to fool people poking around in the code?
* ...that *[Kowloon Youma Gakuenki](/Kowloon_Youma_Gakuenki#Unused_Graphics "Kowloon Youma Gakuenki")* has an image of Michael Jackson on a tricycle?
* ...that at least *[33](/Category:Games_released_on_December_27 "Category:Games released on December 27")* games released on today's date have articles?
## Contributing
Want to contribute? Not sure where to begin? Visit the [Help page](/Help:Contents "Help:Contents") for everything you need to get started, including...
* [Instructions](/Help:Contents/Creating_%26_Editing_Articles "Help:Contents/Creating & Editing Articles") for creating and editing articles
* [Guides](/Help:Contents/Finding_Content "Help:Contents/Finding Content") that will help you find debug modes, unused graphics, hidden levels, and more
* A [list](/Category:To_do "Category:To do") of what needs to be done
* [Common things](/The_Cutting_Room_Floor:Common_Things "The Cutting Room Floor:Common Things") that can be found in hundreds of different games
We also have a [sizable list](/The_Cutting_Room_Floor:Content_to_expand "The Cutting Room Floor:Content to expand") of games that either don't have pages yet, or whose pages are in serious need of expansion. Check it out!
[Suggestions?](https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Category_talk:Featured_files&action=edit§ion=new)
## Featured File
[](/File:OoTStalfosHouse.jpg)
This room is called **ちゅうスタロフォスベや** (Stalfos Miniboss Room), or "syotes" (short for 'show test'). Though this room wasn't seen in the Shoshinkai trailer, the interface and footage from Kun Kun indicates that it belongs in the same batch of screenshots. This blue and brown-tiled chamber has light streaming through the windows and a raised dais at the far end of the room, along with a non-functional double door textured into the wall.
Despite the fact that it was removed from the released version of *[Ocarina of Time](/Ocarina_of_Time "Ocarina of Time")*, it was re-added to the leaked [*Ocarina of Time: Master Quest Debug ROM*](/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_Master_Quest "Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest"), in which it can [be accessed](/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_Master_Quest/Test_Maps#Room_120:_Stalfos_Miniboss_Room "Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest/Test Maps") by using the map select menu.
The Debug ROM build of the room lacks a header, leaving it unknown which objects and music was in by default. The room was also found in the [1997 overdump](/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump/3D_Maps#Syotes "Proto:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Late 1997 Overdump/3D Maps"), however, with its actor and object files partially intact, most notably having Tailapsarans present.
[View more...](/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/A_%2B_B "Prerelease:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/A + B")
[Archive](/Category:Featured_files "Category:Featured files")
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</header>
<p>Every website redesign begins with inspiration. </p>
<p>For this one, there were two: Anders' <a href="https://anders.unix.se">clean, readable website</a>, which inspired the homepage, and <a href="https://marijn.uk/index.html">Marijn's site</a>, which reminded me just how <em>fun</em> the web can be. The colours, graphics, <a href="https://marijn.uk/music/">creative navigation</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_calendar">interesting ideas</a>... the simple fact of clicking through the pages of someone's personal website in 2020 made me nostalgic of the web of the late 90s and early 2000s that I grew up with.</p>
<p>Some of you might have read my previous article, <a href="../against-a-user-hostile-web/">Against an Increasingly User Hostile Web</a>. In it, I argue that we are replacing an open web that connects and empowers with one that restricts and commoditises people. I talk about how the modern web of surveillance, bloat and walled gardens is at odds with the open web that I love. I was pleasantly surprised by how much the sentiment seemed to be shared by so many other people who emailed me, <a href="https://www.eduardomorais.com/stream/id/3519">wrote responses on their own blog</a> and <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15611122">discussed it</a> on <a href="https://lobste.rs/s/5bi46y/against_increasingly_user_hostile_web">online forums</a>. Despite being two and a half years old, that article rather disappointingly still reflects the state of the web today. </p>
<p>But stumbling upon Marijnâs site gave me hope. It led me down a rabbit hole of many other small websites made by people with all kinds of interests: movies, aviation, music, art, computers. It reminded me that the creative, personal, fun web I grew up with is not a thing of the past. Itâs still here in 2020. You just have to know where to look.</p>
<p>My aim is not to convince you that everything was better in the past; it wasn't. You had trojans, malware, endless pop-ups, terrible security practices, browser incompatibility, slow Java applets. No, technically, the modern web is more secure and more usable.</p>
<p>This essay is my attempt to show you what the small and independent web can look like, why itâs different from the the sites that dominate web traffic today, why it's worth exploring and how easy it is for anyone to be a part of it.</p>
<p>This essay is somewhat long; you might find this table of contents handy:</p>
<ol>
<li><a href="#retro-redesign">Retro Redesign</a></li>
<li><a href="#first-webpages">The First Webpages</a></li>
<li><a href="#masters-navigators">Masters and Navigators</a></li>
<li><a href="#modern-gatekeepers">Modern Gatekeepers</a></li>
<li><a href="#commercial-web-of-marketing">The Commercial Web (of Marketing)</a></li>
<li><a href="#product-oriented-website">The Product-Oriented Website</a></li>
<li><a href="#web-as-creative-space">The Web as a Creative Space</a></li>
<li><a href="#highlights-from-the-past">Highlights: From the Past</a></li>
<li><a href="#highlights-from-the-present">Highlights: From the Present</a></li>
<li><a href="#your-own-corner">Your Own Corner of the Web</a></li>
</ol>
<h2 id="retro-redesign">Retro Redesign</h2>
<p>On my <a href="/">homepage</a>, I mention that this website is âa tribute to the creative web of the 90sâ. This is not simply because this website has animated gifs and a <a href="https://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g26-37520-60">guestbook</a>. The <em>way</em> I built it is also inspired by how I built my earliest websites: everything is written in <strong>plain HTML</strong>.</p>
<p>No content management systems, no generators, no templates, no themes, no plugins. Just plain markup and styling, the most basic of the basic building blocks of the web. </p>
<p>I didnât originally plan to do it like this. I previously <a href="../crafting-a-simple-blog-with-metalsmith">used a static site generator</a> to output plain HTML and was simply working on a new design template for that. But my three-year-old node.js setup was now spewing error messages, telling me some dependencies had to be updated and that a plugin was no longer compatible. Because I'm lazy and didn't want to fix any of that, I wondered if I couldnât just do it all manually instead and save myself the trouble. </p>
<p>So I did. I decided to hand-code everything in plain HTML and CSS, manually link all the pages and even hand-write the RSS feed. And to be honest, I havenât had this much fun making a website since when I first started playing around with <a href="https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/old-software/html-editors/microsoft-frontpage-97">Microsoft Frontpage</a> and <a href="https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/old-software/graphic-software/adobe-photoshop-4-0">Adobe Photoshop 4.0</a> in the late 90s and early 2000s.</p>
<p>This approach wouldn't work for a bigger website. But for a small one like mine with about 10 total pages, it has many obvious benefits: next to no dependencies, easy to maintain, reasonably future proof, easily portable and most important of all, terribly fun to work on. I stayed up till six in the morning for two straight days working on the redesign, not because I couldnât sleep but because I didnât want to stop. Admittedly, about 30% of that time was spent scouring <a href="https://gifcities.org/">GifCities.org</a> and the <a href="https://archive.org/web/">Internet Archive</a> for animated GIFs and backgrounds. (You might notice that each page of the website has a different background, including some with <a href="../china-one-nation-how-many-languages/">original art</a> by my friend).</p>
<p>Redesigning my website this way inspired me to scour archives of old websites for interesting relics from the early web. This in turned led me to the fun, creative websites that are actively maintained even today. </p>
<p>To understand what these small websites represent and why I think they are important, we need to start in the past.</p>
<h2 id="first-webpages">The First Webpages</h2>
<p>The web was still in its infancy in the early 90s. You probably know the story.</p>
<p>It had only just been <a href="https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web/short-history-web">invented by Sir Tim Berners-Lee</a> in 1991 and released into the <a href="https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web/licensing-web">public domain</a> in 1993, making it available for free to anyone in the world to use and build on. In its very early days, it was really only accessible to the more technical crowd, much like <em>Gopher</em>, <em>FTP</em>, <em>Usenet</em> and other internet protocols at the time. It wasn't until the first easy-to-use graphical browser <a href="http://www.ncsa.illinois.edu/enabling/mosaic">Mosaic</a> was released for free in 1993 that regular computer users would discover the web for the first time. Others like myself discovered it later still when the Mosaic-spinoff <a href="http://sillydog.org/netscape/">Netscape Navigator</a> (the foundation of today's <a href="https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/new/">Firefox</a>) and Internet Explorer became commonplace. </p>
<p>It was all terribly exciting. Unlike traditional media, you could now speak back and participate. It was the first interplanetary communication system where anyone, anywhere in the world, could make a page and share their thoughts and ideas with the world. Netscape would later even include <a href="https://www.ccsf.edu/Pub/Fac/composer.html">an editor</a> that let users make webpages visually, the same as using a word-processor ("WYSIWYG", as it was called back then: <em>what you see is what you get</em>). The goal was to enable anyone, even those without the technical skills, to put a page up.</p>
<p>But if you wanted your web page to be "on the web", where would you put it? </p>
<p>You needed a web host of some sort to store the pages and share a public address so other people could visit. It would ideally also be free so you could try things for fun without having to think about it too much. That's where <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980704165228/http://www20.geocities.com/join/freehp.html">Geocities</a> came in, along with other free web hosts like <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000815052634/http://www.tripod.lycos.com/">Tripod</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000229235048/http://www.fortunecity.com/build/index.html">Fortunecity</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000815053429/http://www.freeservers.com/">Freeservers</a>. They were perhaps the biggest catalysts to democratising the web. </p>
<figure>
<img src="Geocities-1998.jpg" alt="Geocities introduction page from February 1998" />
<figcaption>Geocities introduction page from February 1998, accessed via <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980213154923/http://www13.geocities.com:80/main/info/">Internet Archive</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>It was so simple, anyone who wanted to could create a free account and build a website to share their hobbies and ideas. And share they did! People made websites about virtually everything: music, philosophy, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20011004132631/http://www.geocities.com/~intransit1/home/home_frm.html">art projects</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010424064639/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/">ASCII art</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000815075236/http://www.pezcentral.com/pezmenu.html">candy</a>, and <a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Athens/Olympus/1406/main.html">about their lives</a>. </p>
<p>A key detail was that most people who made these websites were neither professionals nor companies; they were simply people who wanted to share their interests. Like I did back in 2001 with my <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20020103123131/http://www.geocities.com:80/gammarayfan">unofficial fansite for German metal band Gamma Ray</a>: </p>
<figure>
<img src="gammarayfansite-2001.jpg" alt="My Geocities-hosted Gamma Ray fansite from January 2001" />
<figcaption>My Geocities-hosted Gamma Ray fansite from January 2001, accessed via <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20020103123131/http://www.geocities.com:80/gammarayfan/">Internet Archive</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>But how would someone go about finding these pages? We didn't have Google in the early days. Other search engines like <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980214192548/http://www.lycos.com/">Lycos</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970630113649/http://www06.excite.com/">Excite</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980206192654/http://www.northernlight.com/">Northern Lights</a> did exist but were nowhere near as efficient as modern search engines. Finding something you were interested in was not as simple as typing a few words and getting to that information in one click.</p>
<p>No, the web was much more of an adventure. It was a <em>place</em> that you wandered to discover new areas, like exploring the vast open seas. A new virtual space that lead to all kinds of strange, interesting, exciting places. This is what the web was like, at least, in our collective imagination.</p>
<h2 id="masters-navigators">Masters and Navigators</h2>
<p>The web was a different kind of place in those early years, and we had different words to talk about it. In an article titled <a href="https://rhizome.org/editorial/2015/nov/30/oldweb-today/">Cyberspace, the old-fashioned way</a>, authors at the Rhizome project make a very important point:</p>
<blockquote>Today's web browsers want to be invisible, merging with the visual environment of the desktop in an effort to convince users to treat "the cloud" as just an extension of their hard drive. <strong>In the 1990s, browser design took nearly the opposite approach, using iconography associated with travel to convey the feeling of going on a journey.</strong> Netscape Navigator, which used a ship's helm as its logo, made a very direct link with the nautical origins of the prefix cyber-, while Internet Explorerâs logo promised to take the user around the whole globe. </blockquote>
<figure>
<img src="navigator-explorer.jpg" alt="Old logos of Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer" />
<figcaption>Old logos of Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Navigation. Exploration. Browsing. Surfing. The web was akin to a virtual manifestation of physical space. We even had a word for it: <em>webspace</em>. In Geocities, this was expressed with the notion of <em><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980704165140/http://www20.geocities.com/neighborhoods/">neighborhoods</a></em>, creatively-named categories like <em>Area51</em> for sci-fi, <em>Heartland</em> for families and pets, <em>RainForest</em> for the environment, <em>Vienna</em> for classical music, <em>CapeCanaveral</em> for science and mathematics.</p>
<figure>
<img src="geocities-neighbourhoods-1998.png" alt="A partial list of neighborhoods avialable on Geocities in 1998" />
<figcaption>Neighborhoods avialable on Geocities in 1998, accessed via <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980703151237/http://www11.geocities.com/neighborhoods/">Internet Archive</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Another word that was very common back in the Geocities days that has since died out is the word "webmaster" (mostly gender-neutral, although sometimes declined to the feminine "webmistress"). The idea was that you created a <em>space</em> on the web, of which you were the <em>master</em>. You welcomed visitors (sometimes with a splash screen), guided them around by explaining what the site was about and the different spaces available to them (usually on the home page) and reminded them to leave a word on the guestbook on their way out.</p>
<p>But the semantics of the web of yore made sense in the context of how you <em>practically</em> interacted with it. You very rarely just came in for one specific thing and then immediately left like you might today; you usually <em>entered</em> a website and looked around. You browsed.</p>
<p>Which takes us back to the original question of how other <em>internautes</em> found your website in the first place. You were lucky if your small site showed up in pre-Google search engines, but even if it did, it would mean that somebody was actively looking for it. But not everybody who visited your website <em>was</em> looking for anything specific. They might simply have wanted to find other websites about a topic they were interested it.</p>
<p>One way of doing so was by browsing directories, like the Geocities neighbourhoods: lists of websites often arranged by categories and sub-categories. In fact, most search engines were also directories, or <em>portals</em> as some were called back then.
</p>
<figure>
<img src="excite-channels.jpg" alt="In 1997, Excite was both a search engine and a directory, organised into channels." />
<figcaption>In 1997, Excite was both a search engine and a directory, organised into channels, accessed via <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970601223506/http://www10.excite.com/">Internet Archive</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>One of the biggest ones was the <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010206123038/http://www.dmoz.org/about.html">DMOZ open-directory project</a>, based on the original Mozilla directories, whose goal it was to <em>"produce the most comprehensive directory of the web, by relying on a vast army of volunteer editors"</em>. You can still browse <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010224172816/http://www.dmoz.org/">a 2001 archive of the old directory</a> to get a sense of how it worked.</p>
<figure>
<img src="dmoz-2000.jpg" alt="About DMOZ page from 2001" />
<figcaption>About DMOZ page from 2000, accessed via <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000408141943/http://dmoz.org/about.html">Internet Archive</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>The other way to discover new websites relied on a key feature of the web: hyperlinks. You would go to one website and find your way to many others, much like if you go to my "<a href="../../retro-stuff">Retro Stuff</a>" page and follow one of the links to something interesting elsewhere on the web. This idea of linking to things <em>elsewhere</em> was particularly common; most websites had a "links" page with their own personal collection of interesting webpages.</p>
<p>This cross-linking was the main way I personally discovered my favourite websites, which I would then add to my bookmarks to be able to find them again later. In fact, the practice of cross-linking had an intersting cultural element: <em>webrings</em>. </p>
<figure>
<img src="example-webring.jpg" alt="An example of a webring, about European History" />
<figcaption>An example of a webring (about European History) from <a href="http://brisray.com/web/webrings.htm">Ray's Miscellany</a></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><a href="http://brisray.com/web/webrings.htm">Webrings</a> were "circular" collections of websites, often around a topic or a theme. The idea was that you could go from one website to another by clicking on the "next" or "previous" buttons usually placed on the bottom of each member's homepage. These have also largely disappeared.</p>
<h2 id="modern-gatekeepers">Modern Gatekeepers</h2>
<p>Today, most of the time spent on the web is either <em>on</em> a small number of very dominant platforms like Facebook and LinkedIn, or mediated <em>through</em> them. </p>
<p>There is so much "content" that is constantly pushed at you as a user that very few of us actually venture out to browse and explore anymore. We simply don't need to. But these platforms thrive on "user engagement"âlikes, comments, clicks and sharesâand their algorithms are more likely to give visibility to content that generates this behavior. Instead of browsing, the web is for many an endless and often overwhelming stream of content and commentary picked out by algorithms based on what they think you already like and will <em>engage</em> with. It's the opposite of exploration. </p>
<p>When you're not <em>receiving</em> information passively and instead actually actively looking for something, you most likely have the same singular point of entry as about <a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/">87% of all web users</a>: Google.</p>
<p>Google has become the de facto gatekeeper of the web, an arbiter of what is useful and what should get visibility. Except, most websites that appear on the first page, the links that you are most likely to click onâ<a href="https://backlinko.com/google-ctr-stats">less than 1% of searchers click on something in the second page</a>âare designed to be there by optimising for Google's algorithms. One consequence of this is that most of the websites that people get to "organically" are created by professionals and marketers who "position" themselves on those keywords. This means that the smaller, amateur web gets hidden in the shadows of web professionals who design around specific keywords and audiences.</p>
<figure>
<img src="google-bartending-recipes.jpg" alt="Google's results for 'bartending recipes' won't take you to the small web" />
<figcaption>Google's results for "bartending recipes" won't take you to the small web</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Not only is Google largely a monopoly in searchâ other search engines like Bing, DuckDuckGo and Qwant are <a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/">still far behind in adoption</a>âit is also the biggest ad selling platform. Last year, it represented "31,1% of worldwide ad spending, or $103,73 billion" (<a href="https://www.emarketer.com/content/global-digital-ad-spending-2019">source</a>). The power that comes from being in such a position, along with being present in almost all major websites (through their widely-used analytics platform, despite the <a href="https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/OIR-02-2018-0056/full/pdf?title=protecting-privacy-on-the-web-a-study-of-https-and-google-analytics-implementation-in-academic-library-websites">numerous privacy concerns</a>) means it can actively push its own vision of the web.</p>
<p>And this web is quite different from the kind of "small web" crafted by webmasters of the 90s and early 2000s. Google's web has a <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190214003848/https://marketingplatform.google.com/about/analytics/">different set of values and vocabulary</a> that come with it: personalisation, insights, engagement, conversion, performance, optimisation. </p>
<h2 id="commercial-web-of-marketing">The Commercial Web (of Marketing)</h2>
<p>There has always been a place for commerce and marketing on the web.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/web-design-history/amazon-com-1995">Amazon</a> was already selling books online back in 1995, <a href="https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/web-design-history/ebay-1997">eBay</a> was launched in 1997 and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970605120422/http://www.dell.com/">Dell</a> sold over a million dollars worth of equipment by the end of the same year. By the 2000s, despite the <a href="https://ideas.ted.com/an-eye-opening-look-at-the-dot-com-bubble-of-2000-and-how-it-shapes-our-lives-today/">dot com bust</a>, online commerce was growing. This development was natural; the web enabled sellers to reach more distant clients without having to rely on phone orders, fax or the postal system. The commercial web co-existed and grew with the personal, amateur one. The open nature of the web meant that all kinds of websites could thrive.</p>
<p>But today's web is <em>mostly</em> commercial. The smaller web of individuals has neither the resources nor the will to compete for visibility and audience the way the commercial web does.</p>
<p>Companies and marketers understood that the web presented new opportunities to sell more and <em>target</em> users based on their online activity. They started pouring money into digital ad strategies, analysing how people used the web, what they talk about, what they search for and what they click on. Marketing companies convinced brands that you had to be online and produce content to be more relevant because that's where their customers already were. They invented words like "native advertising" and "sponsored content" (content made to look like a regular articles but are really paid advertising). Companies started pouring money into their digital strategies to understand and alter influence the behavior of internet users to their advantage.</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://www.quantcast.com/products/measure-audience-insights/"><img src="quantcast.jpg" alt="Companies like Quantcast offer detailed behavioral/psychographic data on us web users, including our actions across different websites, to marketers to track and influence us" /></a>
<figcaption>Companies like <a href="https://www.quantcast.com/products/measure-audience-insights/">Quantcast</a> offer detailed behavioral/<em>psychographic</em> data on us web users, including our actions across different websites, to marketers to track and influence us.</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>With its content strategy, analytics (the surveillance infrastructure that I <a href="../against-a-user-hostile-web">spoke about in my previous article</a>) and search engine optimisation, the commercial web brought a completely different set of priorities: to <em>engage</em> their "audience", <em>convert</em> them and <em>retain</em> them for as long as possible.</p>
<p>For them, the web was just another marketing channel.</p>
<p>Compared to the small web, this commercial web is tactical and predatory. It can dynamically generate hundreds of pages around common search queries. It can follow web users across different websites, analyse their interactions, and use that information to target them more precisely. It also has serious resources. Just last year, companies spent <a href="https://www.emarketer.com/content/global-digital-ad-spending-2019">over 300 billion euros</a> in online digital advertising, most of this money going to the same platforms and gatekeepersâGoogle and Facebookâthat sell their ability to better target you based on the information you give them. </p>
<p><strong>What this means is that web users end up interacting and spending most of their time on the visible, predatory commercial web, while the very long tail of smaller, amateur websites remains hidden in the noise.</strong></p>
<h2 id="product-oriented-website">The Product-oriented Website</h2>
<p>The design of the modern commercial web is also "sanitised": it is polished, follows conventions and is optimised for efficiency. This is one of the reasons so many websites you go to today look and feel the same. The codes of the commercial web have become so dominant that we have forgotten that the small web still exists and has a completely different priorities.</p>
<p>Modern web design principles are very rarely directed at regular people looking to make a website on something they are interested in. Instead, the focus is on creating websites that perform well:</p>
<p><em>Don't use too many colours. Write short, catchy headlines. Don't let content be too long. Optimise for SEO. Produce video content, attention span is decreasing. Have a an obvious call to action. Push your newsletter. Keep important information above the fold. Don't make users think. Follow conventions.</em></p>
<figure>
<img src="neil-patel-design.jpg" alt="An SEO person's idea of good design for better conversions" />
<figcaption>An SEO person's idea of <em><a href="https://neilpatel.com/blog/web-design-conversions/">Universal Web Design Principles That Improve Usability And Conversion</a></em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Modern websites are designed to direct user behavior towards certain goals: a purchase, a click, a share or a sign-up. The words, the colours, the message are tailored to these goals, much like packaging on products in the super market. </p>
<p>A 2008 article called by Smashing Magazine called <a href="https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/01/10-principles-of-effective-web-design/">10 Principles Of Good Website Design</a> was the top result when I searched for "<a href="https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=good%20web%20design">good web design</a>" whilst writing this essay. There are many others, some more recent, but they all pretty much say the same thing. The author of this one even clearly begins by stating that <em>"[...] user-centric design has established as a standard approach for successful and profit-oriented web design</em>".</p>
<p>But the web is not always "profit-oriented" and it certainly does not need to be "user-centric" (and I say this as a UX consultant). If it were, there would be very little creativity and self-expression left. The rich diversity of the web would be reduced to the online equivalent of a massive, orderly, clinical shopping mall meant to drive sales. No, the web can just as well be "author-centered", hobby-centered or even be <a href="https://blog.geocities.institute/archives/6551">dog-centered</a>!</p>
<p>It is worth remembering a website does not have to be a product; it can also be art. <strong>The web is also a creative and cultural space that need not confine itself to the conventions defined by commercial product design and marketing</strong>.</p>
<h2 id="web-as-creative-space">The Web as a Creative Space</h2>
<p>With the dominance of the commercial web and the normalisation of its code and techniques, it is easy for most people to think that the web is a complex machine. Most websites today are built with sophisticated content management systems, SEO and social media strategies, multiple plugins, detailed analytics and audience tracking, optimized for different breakpoints and served via a global CDN.</p>
<p>But the web is really a lot simpler than that. You really only need two things: a web host and HTML (and basic CSS for formatting). And you don't need to make it "user-centered"; much like the early webmasters on Geocities carving out their own corner of the web, you can express yourself any way you want. Itâs the difference between product and art.</p>
<p><strong>A painter wouldnât add more red to her painting or change the composition because market data showed that people liked it better. Itâs her creative vision; some people might like it, others might not. But it is her creation, with her own rules. The question of "performance" is simply irrelevant. It's the same thing with the small web.</strong></p>
<p>If the commercial web is "industrial", you could say that the small web is "artisanal". One is not better than the other. They serve different needs and both can co-exist in an open web. It would nevertheless be a shame if we only spent time on the commercial web and never got the opportunity to experience the creativity, passion and quirkiness of the small web.</p>
<p>To show you what the it can look like and how different it can be from modern websites, I have collected a few examples that I think illustrate the richness of the small web.</p>
<h2 id="highlights-from-the-past">Highlights: From the Past</h2>
<p>We will first look at small websites from the past and then move on to ones that are up and running today. </p>
<p>To be able to dig up these websites and give you access to them, I am grateful to the wonderful and important archival work done by: </p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://archive.org/web/">Internet Archive</a>, which, thanks to the 439 billion web pages saved since the mid 90s, lets you travel back in time and see how a website looked in the past.</li>
<li><a href="https://restorativland.org/">Restorativland</a>, a "restored visual gallery of the archived Geocities sites, sorted by neighborhood".</li>
</ul>
<p>On to the examples.</p>
<h3>A Laurel & Hardy Fansite</h3>
<p>A fan-made site from 1998 about comedy duo Stan Laurel and Oliver Norville Hardy. The author has this to say about the website:</p>
<blockquote>
On this website you will find: over one hundred pictures, a small collection of sound files, the complete movie list - from the silent eara to the talkies. Ever wondered what they were singing? Go to the lyrics page and read the text. Laurel & Hardy were the stars but they couldn't have done it without the help of others. You can see who they were on the Supporting Cast page.
</blockquote>
<p>If you go to the <a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/siteinfo.html">siteinfo</a> page, youâll notice that the âwhyâ of the website is simply âwhy not!!â. Why not indeed!
</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/index.html"><img src="laurel-hardy-fansite.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the home page of A Laurel and Hardy Fansite" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the home page of <em>A Laurel and Hardy Fansite</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/index.html">Visit A Laurel & Hardy Fansite</a> on Restorativland</p>
<h3>Fractal Explorer</h3>
<p>A complete website about fractals by Fabio Cesari, (then) a 24 year old student of computer engineering at the University of Bologna, Italy. Includes very clear explanations, image galleries and step-by-step guided tours:</p>
<blockquote>
Many people have probably been fascinated by the infinite complexity and beauty of fractals. I wrote this brief tutorial to explain, in simple terms, how the Mandelbrot set and Julia sets are generated. This document provides an informal introduction to these subjects, and is only intended to be a starting point to learn more about fractals and fractal geometry.
</blockquote>
<figure>
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20020223163039fw_/http://www.geocities.com/fabioc/"><img src="fractal-explorer.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the homepage of On to Mars!" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the guided tour of a Mandelbrot set in <em>Fractal Explorer</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20020223163039fw_/http://www.geocities.com/fabioc/">Visit Fractal Explorer</a> on Internet Archive</p>
<h3>The National Coca-Cola Bottle Clearing House</h3>
<p>This website is almost certainly a definitive list of every single commemorative Coca-Cola bottle since the 70s. There are some surprising entries. For example, did you know there was an 8oz (~240ml) <em>Dominos Pizza International Expo 1991</em> edition, or that such an expo existed at all? Or a 10oz (~300ml) <em>English Royal Wedding</em> one in 1982?</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Heartland/2983/"><img src="coca-cola-clearinghouse.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the homepage of The National Coca Cola Bottle Clearing House" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the homepage of <em>The National Coca Cola Bottle Clearing House</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Heartland/2983/">Visit The National Coca-Cola Bottle Clearing House</a> on Restorativland</p>
<h3>NetHistory</h3>
<p>Before the Internet existed, BITNET was â<em>an early world leader in network communications for the research and education communities, and helped lay the groundwork for the subsequent introduction of the internet, especially outside the US</em>". (<a href="https://www.livinginternet.com/u/ui_bitnet.htm">LivingInternet.com</a>).</p>
<p>This website is an âinformal history of BITNET and the Internetâ:</p>
<blockquote>
If you're looking for a dry, formal history of the Internet, look elsewhere. The purpose of NetHistory is to give you a feeling for what it was like in the pioneering days of BITNET and the Internet. Hopefully, you will gain some perspective and come to understand the early Internet experience (although one could argue that the experience in question is a lot like sitting in front of a mainframe terminal in the middle of the night with a Twinkie-and-Jolt buzz). At worst, you should find it entertaining.
</blockquote>
<p>NetHistory has extensive archives of early network publications (VM/COM, NetMonth, FSFNet, DargonZine, Nutworks, The Gilding Byte among others) and âpersonal insights of the people who were there while BITNET and Internet history was being madeâ.</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010516205238/http://nethistory.dumbentia.com/"><img src="nethistory.jpg" alt="A screenshot of NetHistory's Archive page" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of <em>NetHistory</em>'s Archive page</figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010516205238/http://nethistory.dumbentia.com/">Visit NetHistory</a> on Internet Archive</p>
<h3>joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery </h3>
<p>Think text art is dull? This artist has something to tell you:</p>
<blockquote>
You might not think so after visiting this website. There is much more to these low bandwidth graphics than smileys and emoticons. ASCII Art has progressed beyond being a simple computer graphics technique and has become a popular art form. You'll be amazed at what can be created by only using ASCII (American Standard Code of Information Interchange) characters. Some of the text graphics at this site are html-colorized, some are JavaScript-animated, others are simply text. All are unique, created by hand, and certainly not the same ol' boring text art that you might be expecting!
</blockquote>
<figure>
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010420182629/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/indexjava.htm"><img src="joanstark-ascii.jpg" alt="A screenshot of joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of <em>joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010420182629/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/indexjava.htm">Visit joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery</a>on Internet Archive</p>
<h2 id="highlights-from-the-present">Highlights: From the Present</h2>
<p>As excited as I was to find these wonderful relics, I was even more excited to learn that the small web exists today just as it did back when I was a kid. It's just less visible. Among the projects contributing to keeping the small web alive, three are particularly exciting to me: </p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://wiby.me">Wiby.me</a> is a search engine for old-school, interesting and informative webpages, with a useful "<a href="https://wiby.me/surprise/">surprise me</a>" button that takes you to a random result. </li>
<li><a href="https://neocities.org">Neocities.org</a> is a modern web host that lets anyone create a basic website for free and be a part of a community where you can follow other webmasters. </li>
<li><a href="https://curlie.org/">Curlie</a> is "<em>the largest human-edited directory of the Web. It is constructed and maintained by a passionate, global community of volunteer editors</em>".</li>
</ul>
<h3>Ottaviana's Kitchen</h3>
<p>This website from 1996 is still up today and features a family's Italian recipes passed down from generation to generation:</p>
<blockquote>My Grandparents were immigrants from Italy. They came to Ellis Island, in search of the great American dream. This was where my mother was born in Newark, NJ. The recipes were passed to her from her mother, and then passed to me from mine. Since I have no children of my own, what better way to pass on these recipes but on my web page so everyone can enjoy them, and maybe start their own tradition with them. So for now, Buon Appetito.</blockquote>
<p>You can read the <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/menu.htm">entire menu</a> and find authentic recipes to <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/sauces.htm">sauces</a>, <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/soups.htm">soups</a>, <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/risotto.htm">risotti</a>, <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/cookies.htm">cookies and dessert</a>, and much much more.</p>
<figure>
<a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/sauces.htm"><img src="ottavianas-kitchen.jpg" alt="A screenshot of a recipe page from Ottaviana's Kitchen" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of a recipe page from <em>Ottaviana's Kitchen</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="http://ottavianaskitchen.com/intro.htm">Visit Ottaviana's Kitchen</a></p>
<h3>Europäische Schmetterlinge</h3>
<p>This is a German website about European butterflies created in 1998 and maintained until 2005 by Mario Maier. But it isn't just <em>any</em> old website about butterflies; this one is a near-exhaustive collection of almost all butterflies in Europe organised by genus/species, each with a description, an indication of its "flight time" and the corresponding caterpillar's plants of choice, along with photos (most taken by the author himself).</p>
<figure>
<a href="http://www.butterflies.de/"><img src="europaeische-schmetterlinge.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the page on Melitae didyma butterflies on Europäische Schmetterlinge" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the page on <em>Melitae didyma</em> butterflies on <em>Europäische Schmetterlinge</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Some of the pages like <a href="http://www.butterflies.de/Deutsch/ainsae.htm">this one on <em>Agrodiaetus ainsae</em></a> seem to have more information than currently <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyommatus_fulgens">available on Wikipedia</a>! I originally found the <a href="https://geocities.restorativland.org/Paris/Cafe/1508/">Geocities version</a> on Restorativland and then found this version that is currently up.</p>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="http://www.butterflies.de/">Visit Europäische Schmetterlinge</a></p>
<p class="update">It looks like the same author had a larger website for <em>all</em> butterflies on Earth that was up until 2018. You can visit <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180421072253/http://www.butterflycorner.net/Schmetterlinge-aus-aller-Welt.1.0.html">an archived copy of Butterfly Corner</a>.</p>
<h3>Marseillaise.org</h3>
<p>Everything you wanted to know about the French national anthem <em>La Marseillaise</em>, from Ian Pattersonâs website thatâs been up âin one form or another since 1996â.</p>
<blockquote>
Welcome. No doubt you've come here to see what all the fuss is about on the 14th of July. I think you'll find all you want to know here. La Marseillaise is the national anthem of France, believed by many to be the most stirring of all anthems. Here you will find a transcription of its score, complete sound clips in various formats and a translation into English.
</blockquote>
<figure>
<a href="http://www.marseillaise.org/english/"><img src="marseillaise-org.jpg" alt="A screenshot of Marsaillaise.org" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of <em>Marsaillaise.org</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="http://www.marseillaise.org/english/ ">Visit Marseillaise.org</a></p>
<h3>The Webtender</h3>
<p>Interested in mixing your own drinks? The Webtender, which has been online since 1995, features over 6000 recipes, a handbook with information on bar glassware, tools, measurements and ingredients, a forum, a wiki and even lets you search for recipes based on what you have in your bar!</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://www.webtender.com/info/"><img src="webtender.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the home page of Webtender" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the home page of Webtender</figcaption>
</figure>
<blockquote>
<p>I got the idea to this database when I saw a program called Bartender for the Amiga. I wanted to create a useful web-service, and decided to make something similar for the World Wide Web. Remember that this was just at the same time as the Web (I prefer to call it that) became popular with not only students and people connected to the Internet at work, but also to people at home.</p>
<p>So, during spring 1995 I started to collect drink recipes from various Internet sources, including the mentioned program. One of the main sources was The (Un)Official Internet Bartender's Guide and postings to the newsgroup <code>rec.food.drink</code>.</p>
<p>Then I decided to let my visitors help building the database. A lot of people make their own drinks, or have their own favourite, so why not let them add it to the database? I created a simple web form that visitors could use to add their drinks. It bacame a success!</p>
<p>Today, about 1500 of the drinks have been added by me, and the rest have been contributed by visitors.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://www.webtender.com/info/">Visit The Webtender</a></p>
<h3>Distant Skies - A Crystalis Fansite</h3>
<p>A fan-made website about an action-RPG game called Crystalis:</p>
<blockquote>
'Crystalis' is an Action-RPG for the Nintendo Entertainment System. It was released in Japan in April of 1990 and in the United States the following July. It was praised by critics at the time for its graphics and gameplay and it inspired a devout, if somewhat small, fan following. In Japan the game was called ã´ããã»ã¹ã¬ã¤ã¤ã¼ ã¯ãã天空ã®ã½ãã¿ or God Slayer: Sonata of the Distant Sky.
</blockquote>
<p>Built in the visual style of the game itself, the site provides detailed information about the story, characters, game world, spells and items in the game. Even though I donât know the game, itâs fun to browse around.</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://distantskies.neocities.org/"><img src="distant-skies.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the home page of Distant Skies" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the home page of <em>Distant Skies</em></figcaption>
</figure>
<p><img class="external-link" src="link.png" alt="" height="25" /> <a href="https://distantskies.neocities.org/ ">Visit Distant Skies - A Crystalis Fansite</a></p>
<h2 id="your-own-corner">Your Own Corner of the Web</h2>
<p>So the small web still exists, and is still giving us all kinds of websites to browse through and discover.
</p>
<p>As fun as it is to explore what's out there, the best part is really to join in and make your own website. Not on closed platforms or on social media mediated by ad companies, but simply in your own little corner of the web. It's the best way to see how simple and open the web really is.</p>
<p>You could easily put up those drawings you've been making, share your thoughts and ideas, or reviews of your favourite whiskies. Make a website to share your writing tips or your best recipes. Or a list of your favourite addresses in your city for travelers who might be visiting.</p>
<p>All you would need is to learn basic markup (HTML) and styling (CSS), set up a site on a free host like <a href="https://neocities.org">Neocities.org</a> and start playing. As you can imagine, Neocities is a Geocities-like free web host (minus the ads) whose mission it is to "<em>make the web fun again by giving you back control of how you express yourself online</em>". Discovering and joining Neocities was one of the reasons I got so excited about the small web. You can spend hours and hours <a href="https://neocities.org/browse?sort_by=last_updated">browsing through</a> the many sites hosted there, or just get a free account to play with.</p>
<figure>
<a href="https://neocities.org"><img src="neocities-home.jpg" alt="A screenshot of the home page of Neocities" /></a>
<figcaption>A screenshot of the home page of Neocities</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>If you don't know how to make websites, HTMLDog has excellent tutorials to learn <a href="https://htmldog.com/guides/html/beginner/">basic HTML</a> and <a href="https://htmldog.com/guides/css/beginner/">basic CSS</a>. If you prefer video, Khan Academy has an excellent free course for beginners called "<a href="https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming/html-css">Making Webpages</a>" that looks very complete.</p>
<p>If you have no prior experience, it might take you a while to get a hang of how to change text sizes and colours, add images and link between pages, but I think thatâs part of the fun. </p>
<p>You could of course always just get a pre-made template or a theme and use that, but it's a different exercise. Itâs the difference between buying art and learning how to paint or sculpt. The end result might be the same but the exercise is very different. It might be more practical but is nothing like creating an HTML page from scratch and putting it up on the web for the world to see. </p>
<p>Another great thing about the web is that you can always view the source of any public website to take inspiration and learn. Make sure you pick simple, basic ones; the modern web is full of bloated websites that make HTML unreadable. This website, for example, only uses basic HTML and CSS and I invite you to play with <a href="https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/blob/master/essays/the-small-web/index.html">the code</a> to your heartâs content. Itâs all in the <a href="../../license.txt">public domain</a>, so you can even copy all of it and modify it (and you donât have to credit me or even link back, itâs all free).</p>
<p>If you do end up making a website after reading this, Iâd love to see it (and perhaps even add it on here): send me an email at <a href="mailto:webmaster@neustadt.fr">webmaster@neustadt.fr</a>. </p>
<h2 id="thoughts-and-feedback">Thoughts and Feedback</h2>
<p>The small web still exists and has a lot to offer.</p>
<p>It might not be as polished as the commercial web we're used to, but I hope I have, at the very least, piqued your curiosity and made you want to explore it too.</p>
<p>I would love to hear from you if you have thoughts and comments about the essay, or if you have other interesting examples, or corrections. You can email me at <a href="mailto:webmaster@neustadt.fr">webmaster@neustadt.fr</a>. This essay along with everything else on this website is also on <a href="https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/blob/master/essays/the-small-web/index.html">GitHub</a>; if you find errors or have suggestions for an edit, you can simply send me a pull request.</p>
<p>I hope you enjoyed your stay on my website. Feel free to browse around; the <a href="../../retro-stuff">Retro Stuff</a> has other relics from the 90s and the 2000s that you might enjoy. And of course, you can <a href="https://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g26-37520-60">sign my guestbook</a> on your way out if you'd like.</p>
<p class="update"><strong>Elsewhere:</strong> The <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23326329">discussion on Hacker News</a> around this essay has plenty of other interesting links and ideas that you might also enjoy. <em>(Updated 28 May).</em></p>
<p class="update"><strong>Merci:</strong> Thanks to Mario, Zach and Alex for <a href="https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed">pointing out and fixing</a> some typos.</p>
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<a href="../../license.txt"><img src="../../img/publicdomain.png" alt="CC0 Public Domain Logo" /></a><br /> <a href="https://neustadt.fr/essays/the-small-web/">Rediscovering the Small Web</a>, written by Parimal Satyal on 25 May 2020 and published on <a href="https://neustadt.fr">Neustadt.fr</a>. This text is in the public domain with a <a href="../../license.txt">CC0 1.0 Universal license</a>; you are free to do whatever you want with it (obviously doesn't apply to the websites and resources I've linked to, or the logos and graphics in the background). A link back is nice but not required. </p>
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Rediscovering the Small Web - Neustadt.fr
# Rediscovering the Small Web
Most websites today are built like commercial products by professionals and marketers, optimised to draw the largest audience, generate engagement and 'convert'. But there is also a smaller, less-visible web designed by regular people to simply to share their interests and hobbies with the world. A web that is unpolished, often quirky but often also fun, creative and interesting.
- [Parimal Satyal](../../index.html), 25 May 2020
Every website redesign begins with inspiration.
For this one, there were two: Anders' [clean, readable website](https://anders.unix.se), which inspired the homepage, and [Marijn's site](https://marijn.uk/index.html), which reminded me just how *fun* the web can be. The colours, graphics, [creative navigation](https://marijn.uk/music/), [interesting ideas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_calendar)... the simple fact of clicking through the pages of someone's personal website in 2020 made me nostalgic of the web of the late 90s and early 2000s that I grew up with.
Some of you might have read my previous article, [Against an Increasingly User Hostile Web](../against-a-user-hostile-web/). In it, I argue that we are replacing an open web that connects and empowers with one that restricts and commoditises people. I talk about how the modern web of surveillance, bloat and walled gardens is at odds with the open web that I love. I was pleasantly surprised by how much the sentiment seemed to be shared by so many other people who emailed me, [wrote responses on their own blog](https://www.eduardomorais.com/stream/id/3519) and [discussed it](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15611122) on [online forums](https://lobste.rs/s/5bi46y/against_increasingly_user_hostile_web). Despite being two and a half years old, that article rather disappointingly still reflects the state of the web today.
But stumbling upon Marijnâs site gave me hope. It led me down a rabbit hole of many other small websites made by people with all kinds of interests: movies, aviation, music, art, computers. It reminded me that the creative, personal, fun web I grew up with is not a thing of the past. Itâs still here in 2020. You just have to know where to look.
My aim is not to convince you that everything was better in the past; it wasn't. You had trojans, malware, endless pop-ups, terrible security practices, browser incompatibility, slow Java applets. No, technically, the modern web is more secure and more usable.
This essay is my attempt to show you what the small and independent web can look like, why itâs different from the the sites that dominate web traffic today, why it's worth exploring and how easy it is for anyone to be a part of it.
This essay is somewhat long; you might find this table of contents handy:
1. [Retro Redesign](#retro-redesign)
2. [The First Webpages](#first-webpages)
3. [Masters and Navigators](#masters-navigators)
4. [Modern Gatekeepers](#modern-gatekeepers)
5. [The Commercial Web (of Marketing)](#commercial-web-of-marketing)
6. [The Product-Oriented Website](#product-oriented-website)
7. [The Web as a Creative Space](#web-as-creative-space)
8. [Highlights: From the Past](#highlights-from-the-past)
9. [Highlights: From the Present](#highlights-from-the-present)
10. [Your Own Corner of the Web](#your-own-corner)
## Retro Redesign
On my [homepage](/), I mention that this website is âa tribute to the creative web of the 90sâ. This is not simply because this website has animated gifs and a [guestbook](https://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g26-37520-60). The *way* I built it is also inspired by how I built my earliest websites: everything is written in **plain HTML**.
No content management systems, no generators, no templates, no themes, no plugins. Just plain markup and styling, the most basic of the basic building blocks of the web.
I didnât originally plan to do it like this. I previously [used a static site generator](../crafting-a-simple-blog-with-metalsmith) to output plain HTML and was simply working on a new design template for that. But my three-year-old node.js setup was now spewing error messages, telling me some dependencies had to be updated and that a plugin was no longer compatible. Because I'm lazy and didn't want to fix any of that, I wondered if I couldnât just do it all manually instead and save myself the trouble.
So I did. I decided to hand-code everything in plain HTML and CSS, manually link all the pages and even hand-write the RSS feed. And to be honest, I havenât had this much fun making a website since when I first started playing around with [Microsoft Frontpage](https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/old-software/html-editors/microsoft-frontpage-97) and [Adobe Photoshop 4.0](https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/old-software/graphic-software/adobe-photoshop-4-0) in the late 90s and early 2000s.
This approach wouldn't work for a bigger website. But for a small one like mine with about 10 total pages, it has many obvious benefits: next to no dependencies, easy to maintain, reasonably future proof, easily portable and most important of all, terribly fun to work on. I stayed up till six in the morning for two straight days working on the redesign, not because I couldnât sleep but because I didnât want to stop. Admittedly, about 30% of that time was spent scouring [GifCities.org](https://gifcities.org/) and the [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/web/) for animated GIFs and backgrounds. (You might notice that each page of the website has a different background, including some with [original art](../china-one-nation-how-many-languages/) by my friend).
Redesigning my website this way inspired me to scour archives of old websites for interesting relics from the early web. This in turned led me to the fun, creative websites that are actively maintained even today.
To understand what these small websites represent and why I think they are important, we need to start in the past.
## The First Webpages
The web was still in its infancy in the early 90s. You probably know the story.
It had only just been [invented by Sir Tim Berners-Lee](https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web/short-history-web) in 1991 and released into the [public domain](https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web/licensing-web) in 1993, making it available for free to anyone in the world to use and build on. In its very early days, it was really only accessible to the more technical crowd, much like *Gopher*, *FTP*, *Usenet* and other internet protocols at the time. It wasn't until the first easy-to-use graphical browser [Mosaic](http://www.ncsa.illinois.edu/enabling/mosaic) was released for free in 1993 that regular computer users would discover the web for the first time. Others like myself discovered it later still when the Mosaic-spinoff [Netscape Navigator](http://sillydog.org/netscape/) (the foundation of today's [Firefox](https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/new/)) and Internet Explorer became commonplace.
It was all terribly exciting. Unlike traditional media, you could now speak back and participate. It was the first interplanetary communication system where anyone, anywhere in the world, could make a page and share their thoughts and ideas with the world. Netscape would later even include [an editor](https://www.ccsf.edu/Pub/Fac/composer.html) that let users make webpages visually, the same as using a word-processor ("WYSIWYG", as it was called back then: *what you see is what you get*). The goal was to enable anyone, even those without the technical skills, to put a page up.
But if you wanted your web page to be "on the web", where would you put it?
You needed a web host of some sort to store the pages and share a public address so other people could visit. It would ideally also be free so you could try things for fun without having to think about it too much. That's where [Geocities](https://web.archive.org/web/19980704165228/http://www20.geocities.com/join/freehp.html) came in, along with other free web hosts like [Tripod](https://web.archive.org/web/20000815052634/http://www.tripod.lycos.com/), [Fortunecity](https://web.archive.org/web/20000229235048/http://www.fortunecity.com/build/index.html) and [Freeservers](https://web.archive.org/web/20000815053429/http://www.freeservers.com/). They were perhaps the biggest catalysts to democratising the web.
Geocities introduction page from February 1998, accessed via [Internet Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/19980213154923/http://www13.geocities.com:80/main/info/)
It was so simple, anyone who wanted to could create a free account and build a website to share their hobbies and ideas. And share they did! People made websites about virtually everything: music, philosophy, [art projects](https://web.archive.org/web/20011004132631/http://www.geocities.com/~intransit1/home/home_frm.html), [ASCII art](https://web.archive.org/web/20010424064639/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/), [candy](https://web.archive.org/web/20000815075236/http://www.pezcentral.com/pezmenu.html), and [about their lives](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Athens/Olympus/1406/main.html).
A key detail was that most people who made these websites were neither professionals nor companies; they were simply people who wanted to share their interests. Like I did back in 2001 with my [unofficial fansite for German metal band Gamma Ray](https://web.archive.org/web/20020103123131/http://www.geocities.com:80/gammarayfan):
My Geocities-hosted Gamma Ray fansite from January 2001, accessed via [Internet Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/20020103123131/http://www.geocities.com:80/gammarayfan/)
But how would someone go about finding these pages? We didn't have Google in the early days. Other search engines like [Lycos](https://web.archive.org/web/19980214192548/http://www.lycos.com/), [Excite](https://web.archive.org/web/19970630113649/http://www06.excite.com/) and [Northern Lights](https://web.archive.org/web/19980206192654/http://www.northernlight.com/) did exist but were nowhere near as efficient as modern search engines. Finding something you were interested in was not as simple as typing a few words and getting to that information in one click.
No, the web was much more of an adventure. It was a *place* that you wandered to discover new areas, like exploring the vast open seas. A new virtual space that lead to all kinds of strange, interesting, exciting places. This is what the web was like, at least, in our collective imagination.
## Masters and Navigators
The web was a different kind of place in those early years, and we had different words to talk about it. In an article titled [Cyberspace, the old-fashioned way](https://rhizome.org/editorial/2015/nov/30/oldweb-today/), authors at the Rhizome project make a very important point:
> Today's web browsers want to be invisible, merging with the visual environment of the desktop in an effort to convince users to treat "the cloud" as just an extension of their hard drive. **In the 1990s, browser design took nearly the opposite approach, using iconography associated with travel to convey the feeling of going on a journey.** Netscape Navigator, which used a ship's helm as its logo, made a very direct link with the nautical origins of the prefix cyber-, while Internet Explorerâs logo promised to take the user around the whole globe.
Old logos of Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer
Navigation. Exploration. Browsing. Surfing. The web was akin to a virtual manifestation of physical space. We even had a word for it: *webspace*. In Geocities, this was expressed with the notion of *[neighborhoods](https://web.archive.org/web/19980704165140/http://www20.geocities.com/neighborhoods/)*, creatively-named categories like *Area51* for sci-fi, *Heartland* for families and pets, *RainForest* for the environment, *Vienna* for classical music, *CapeCanaveral* for science and mathematics.
Neighborhoods avialable on Geocities in 1998, accessed via [Internet Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/19980703151237/http://www11.geocities.com/neighborhoods/)
Another word that was very common back in the Geocities days that has since died out is the word "webmaster" (mostly gender-neutral, although sometimes declined to the feminine "webmistress"). The idea was that you created a *space* on the web, of which you were the *master*. You welcomed visitors (sometimes with a splash screen), guided them around by explaining what the site was about and the different spaces available to them (usually on the home page) and reminded them to leave a word on the guestbook on their way out.
But the semantics of the web of yore made sense in the context of how you *practically* interacted with it. You very rarely just came in for one specific thing and then immediately left like you might today; you usually *entered* a website and looked around. You browsed.
Which takes us back to the original question of how other *internautes* found your website in the first place. You were lucky if your small site showed up in pre-Google search engines, but even if it did, it would mean that somebody was actively looking for it. But not everybody who visited your website *was* looking for anything specific. They might simply have wanted to find other websites about a topic they were interested it.
One way of doing so was by browsing directories, like the Geocities neighbourhoods: lists of websites often arranged by categories and sub-categories. In fact, most search engines were also directories, or *portals* as some were called back then.
In 1997, Excite was both a search engine and a directory, organised into channels, accessed via [Internet Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/19970601223506/http://www10.excite.com/)
One of the biggest ones was the [DMOZ open-directory project](https://web.archive.org/web/20010206123038/http://www.dmoz.org/about.html), based on the original Mozilla directories, whose goal it was to *"produce the most comprehensive directory of the web, by relying on a vast army of volunteer editors"*. You can still browse [a 2001 archive of the old directory](https://web.archive.org/web/20010224172816/http://www.dmoz.org/) to get a sense of how it worked.
About DMOZ page from 2000, accessed via [Internet Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/20000408141943/http://dmoz.org/about.html)
The other way to discover new websites relied on a key feature of the web: hyperlinks. You would go to one website and find your way to many others, much like if you go to my "[Retro Stuff](../../retro-stuff)" page and follow one of the links to something interesting elsewhere on the web. This idea of linking to things *elsewhere* was particularly common; most websites had a "links" page with their own personal collection of interesting webpages.
This cross-linking was the main way I personally discovered my favourite websites, which I would then add to my bookmarks to be able to find them again later. In fact, the practice of cross-linking had an intersting cultural element: *webrings*.
An example of a webring (about European History) from [Ray's Miscellany](http://brisray.com/web/webrings.htm)
[Webrings](http://brisray.com/web/webrings.htm) were "circular" collections of websites, often around a topic or a theme. The idea was that you could go from one website to another by clicking on the "next" or "previous" buttons usually placed on the bottom of each member's homepage. These have also largely disappeared.
## Modern Gatekeepers
Today, most of the time spent on the web is either *on* a small number of very dominant platforms like Facebook and LinkedIn, or mediated *through* them.
There is so much "content" that is constantly pushed at you as a user that very few of us actually venture out to browse and explore anymore. We simply don't need to. But these platforms thrive on "user engagement"âlikes, comments, clicks and sharesâand their algorithms are more likely to give visibility to content that generates this behavior. Instead of browsing, the web is for many an endless and often overwhelming stream of content and commentary picked out by algorithms based on what they think you already like and will *engage* with. It's the opposite of exploration.
When you're not *receiving* information passively and instead actually actively looking for something, you most likely have the same singular point of entry as about [87% of all web users](https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/): Google.
Google has become the de facto gatekeeper of the web, an arbiter of what is useful and what should get visibility. Except, most websites that appear on the first page, the links that you are most likely to click onâ[less than 1% of searchers click on something in the second page](https://backlinko.com/google-ctr-stats)âare designed to be there by optimising for Google's algorithms. One consequence of this is that most of the websites that people get to "organically" are created by professionals and marketers who "position" themselves on those keywords. This means that the smaller, amateur web gets hidden in the shadows of web professionals who design around specific keywords and audiences.
Google's results for "bartending recipes" won't take you to the small web
Not only is Google largely a monopoly in searchâ other search engines like Bing, DuckDuckGo and Qwant are [still far behind in adoption](https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/)âit is also the biggest ad selling platform. Last year, it represented "31,1% of worldwide ad spending, or $103,73 billion" ([source](https://www.emarketer.com/content/global-digital-ad-spending-2019)). The power that comes from being in such a position, along with being present in almost all major websites (through their widely-used analytics platform, despite the [numerous privacy concerns](https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/OIR-02-2018-0056/full/pdf?title=protecting-privacy-on-the-web-a-study-of-https-and-google-analytics-implementation-in-academic-library-websites)) means it can actively push its own vision of the web.
And this web is quite different from the kind of "small web" crafted by webmasters of the 90s and early 2000s. Google's web has a [different set of values and vocabulary](https://web.archive.org/web/20190214003848/https://marketingplatform.google.com/about/analytics/) that come with it: personalisation, insights, engagement, conversion, performance, optimisation.
## The Commercial Web (of Marketing)
There has always been a place for commerce and marketing on the web.
[Amazon](https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/web-design-history/amazon-com-1995) was already selling books online back in 1995, [eBay](https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/web-design-history/ebay-1997) was launched in 1997 and [Dell](https://web.archive.org/web/19970605120422/http://www.dell.com/) sold over a million dollars worth of equipment by the end of the same year. By the 2000s, despite the [dot com bust](https://ideas.ted.com/an-eye-opening-look-at-the-dot-com-bubble-of-2000-and-how-it-shapes-our-lives-today/), online commerce was growing. This development was natural; the web enabled sellers to reach more distant clients without having to rely on phone orders, fax or the postal system. The commercial web co-existed and grew with the personal, amateur one. The open nature of the web meant that all kinds of websites could thrive.
But today's web is *mostly* commercial. The smaller web of individuals has neither the resources nor the will to compete for visibility and audience the way the commercial web does.
Companies and marketers understood that the web presented new opportunities to sell more and *target* users based on their online activity. They started pouring money into digital ad strategies, analysing how people used the web, what they talk about, what they search for and what they click on. Marketing companies convinced brands that you had to be online and produce content to be more relevant because that's where their customers already were. They invented words like "native advertising" and "sponsored content" (content made to look like a regular articles but are really paid advertising). Companies started pouring money into their digital strategies to understand and alter influence the behavior of internet users to their advantage.
[](https://www.quantcast.com/products/measure-audience-insights/)
Companies like [Quantcast](https://www.quantcast.com/products/measure-audience-insights/) offer detailed behavioral/*psychographic* data on us web users, including our actions across different websites, to marketers to track and influence us.
With its content strategy, analytics (the surveillance infrastructure that I [spoke about in my previous article](../against-a-user-hostile-web)) and search engine optimisation, the commercial web brought a completely different set of priorities: to *engage* their "audience", *convert* them and *retain* them for as long as possible.
For them, the web was just another marketing channel.
Compared to the small web, this commercial web is tactical and predatory. It can dynamically generate hundreds of pages around common search queries. It can follow web users across different websites, analyse their interactions, and use that information to target them more precisely. It also has serious resources. Just last year, companies spent [over 300 billion euros](https://www.emarketer.com/content/global-digital-ad-spending-2019) in online digital advertising, most of this money going to the same platforms and gatekeepersâGoogle and Facebookâthat sell their ability to better target you based on the information you give them.
**What this means is that web users end up interacting and spending most of their time on the visible, predatory commercial web, while the very long tail of smaller, amateur websites remains hidden in the noise.**
## The Product-oriented Website
The design of the modern commercial web is also "sanitised": it is polished, follows conventions and is optimised for efficiency. This is one of the reasons so many websites you go to today look and feel the same. The codes of the commercial web have become so dominant that we have forgotten that the small web still exists and has a completely different priorities.
Modern web design principles are very rarely directed at regular people looking to make a website on something they are interested in. Instead, the focus is on creating websites that perform well:
*Don't use too many colours. Write short, catchy headlines. Don't let content be too long. Optimise for SEO. Produce video content, attention span is decreasing. Have a an obvious call to action. Push your newsletter. Keep important information above the fold. Don't make users think. Follow conventions.*
An SEO person's idea of *[Universal Web Design Principles That Improve Usability And Conversion](https://neilpatel.com/blog/web-design-conversions/)*
Modern websites are designed to direct user behavior towards certain goals: a purchase, a click, a share or a sign-up. The words, the colours, the message are tailored to these goals, much like packaging on products in the super market.
A 2008 article called by Smashing Magazine called [10 Principles Of Good Website Design](https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/01/10-principles-of-effective-web-design/) was the top result when I searched for "[good web design](https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=good%20web%20design)" whilst writing this essay. There are many others, some more recent, but they all pretty much say the same thing. The author of this one even clearly begins by stating that *"[...] user-centric design has established as a standard approach for successful and profit-oriented web design*".
But the web is not always "profit-oriented" and it certainly does not need to be "user-centric" (and I say this as a UX consultant). If it were, there would be very little creativity and self-expression left. The rich diversity of the web would be reduced to the online equivalent of a massive, orderly, clinical shopping mall meant to drive sales. No, the web can just as well be "author-centered", hobby-centered or even be [dog-centered](https://blog.geocities.institute/archives/6551)!
It is worth remembering a website does not have to be a product; it can also be art. **The web is also a creative and cultural space that need not confine itself to the conventions defined by commercial product design and marketing**.
## The Web as a Creative Space
With the dominance of the commercial web and the normalisation of its code and techniques, it is easy for most people to think that the web is a complex machine. Most websites today are built with sophisticated content management systems, SEO and social media strategies, multiple plugins, detailed analytics and audience tracking, optimized for different breakpoints and served via a global CDN.
But the web is really a lot simpler than that. You really only need two things: a web host and HTML (and basic CSS for formatting). And you don't need to make it "user-centered"; much like the early webmasters on Geocities carving out their own corner of the web, you can express yourself any way you want. Itâs the difference between product and art.
**A painter wouldnât add more red to her painting or change the composition because market data showed that people liked it better. Itâs her creative vision; some people might like it, others might not. But it is her creation, with her own rules. The question of "performance" is simply irrelevant. It's the same thing with the small web.**
If the commercial web is "industrial", you could say that the small web is "artisanal". One is not better than the other. They serve different needs and both can co-exist in an open web. It would nevertheless be a shame if we only spent time on the commercial web and never got the opportunity to experience the creativity, passion and quirkiness of the small web.
To show you what the it can look like and how different it can be from modern websites, I have collected a few examples that I think illustrate the richness of the small web.
## Highlights: From the Past
We will first look at small websites from the past and then move on to ones that are up and running today.
To be able to dig up these websites and give you access to them, I am grateful to the wonderful and important archival work done by:
* [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/web/), which, thanks to the 439 billion web pages saved since the mid 90s, lets you travel back in time and see how a website looked in the past.
* [Restorativland](https://restorativland.org/), a "restored visual gallery of the archived Geocities sites, sorted by neighborhood".
On to the examples.
### A Laurel & Hardy Fansite
A fan-made site from 1998 about comedy duo Stan Laurel and Oliver Norville Hardy. The author has this to say about the website:
>
> On this website you will find: over one hundred pictures, a small collection of sound files, the complete movie list - from the silent eara to the talkies. Ever wondered what they were singing? Go to the lyrics page and read the text. Laurel & Hardy were the stars but they couldn't have done it without the help of others. You can see who they were on the Supporting Cast page.
>
If you go to the [siteinfo](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/siteinfo.html) page, youâll notice that the âwhyâ of the website is simply âwhy not!!â. Why not indeed!
[](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/index.html)
A screenshot of the home page of *A Laurel and Hardy Fansite*
 [Visit A Laurel & Hardy Fansite](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Hollywood/Studio/5352/index.html) on Restorativland
### Fractal Explorer
A complete website about fractals by Fabio Cesari, (then) a 24 year old student of computer engineering at the University of Bologna, Italy. Includes very clear explanations, image galleries and step-by-step guided tours:
>
> Many people have probably been fascinated by the infinite complexity and beauty of fractals. I wrote this brief tutorial to explain, in simple terms, how the Mandelbrot set and Julia sets are generated. This document provides an informal introduction to these subjects, and is only intended to be a starting point to learn more about fractals and fractal geometry.
>
[](https://web.archive.org/web/20020223163039fw_/http://www.geocities.com/fabioc/)
A screenshot of the guided tour of a Mandelbrot set in *Fractal Explorer*
 [Visit Fractal Explorer](https://web.archive.org/web/20020223163039fw_/http://www.geocities.com/fabioc/) on Internet Archive
### The National Coca-Cola Bottle Clearing House
This website is almost certainly a definitive list of every single commemorative Coca-Cola bottle since the 70s. There are some surprising entries. For example, did you know there was an 8oz (~240ml) *Dominos Pizza International Expo 1991* edition, or that such an expo existed at all? Or a 10oz (~300ml) *English Royal Wedding* one in 1982?
[](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Heartland/2983/)
A screenshot of the homepage of *The National Coca Cola Bottle Clearing House*
 [Visit The National Coca-Cola Bottle Clearing House](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Heartland/2983/) on Restorativland
### NetHistory
Before the Internet existed, BITNET was â*an early world leader in network communications for the research and education communities, and helped lay the groundwork for the subsequent introduction of the internet, especially outside the US*". ([LivingInternet.com](https://www.livinginternet.com/u/ui_bitnet.htm)).
This website is an âinformal history of BITNET and the Internetâ:
>
> If you're looking for a dry, formal history of the Internet, look elsewhere. The purpose of NetHistory is to give you a feeling for what it was like in the pioneering days of BITNET and the Internet. Hopefully, you will gain some perspective and come to understand the early Internet experience (although one could argue that the experience in question is a lot like sitting in front of a mainframe terminal in the middle of the night with a Twinkie-and-Jolt buzz). At worst, you should find it entertaining.
>
NetHistory has extensive archives of early network publications (VM/COM, NetMonth, FSFNet, DargonZine, Nutworks, The Gilding Byte among others) and âpersonal insights of the people who were there while BITNET and Internet history was being madeâ.
[](https://web.archive.org/web/20010516205238/http://nethistory.dumbentia.com/)
A screenshot of *NetHistory*'s Archive page
 [Visit NetHistory](https://web.archive.org/web/20010516205238/http://nethistory.dumbentia.com/) on Internet Archive
### joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery
Think text art is dull? This artist has something to tell you:
>
> You might not think so after visiting this website. There is much more to these low bandwidth graphics than smileys and emoticons. ASCII Art has progressed beyond being a simple computer graphics technique and has become a popular art form. You'll be amazed at what can be created by only using ASCII (American Standard Code of Information Interchange) characters. Some of the text graphics at this site are html-colorized, some are JavaScript-animated, others are simply text. All are unique, created by hand, and certainly not the same ol' boring text art that you might be expecting!
>
[](https://web.archive.org/web/20010420182629/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/indexjava.htm)
A screenshot of *joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery*
 [Visit joan stark's ASCII Art Gallery](https://web.archive.org/web/20010420182629/http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/indexjava.htm)on Internet Archive
## Highlights: From the Present
As excited as I was to find these wonderful relics, I was even more excited to learn that the small web exists today just as it did back when I was a kid. It's just less visible. Among the projects contributing to keeping the small web alive, three are particularly exciting to me:
* [Wiby.me](https://wiby.me) is a search engine for old-school, interesting and informative webpages, with a useful "[surprise me](https://wiby.me/surprise/)" button that takes you to a random result.
* [Neocities.org](https://neocities.org) is a modern web host that lets anyone create a basic website for free and be a part of a community where you can follow other webmasters.
* [Curlie](https://curlie.org/) is "*the largest human-edited directory of the Web. It is constructed and maintained by a passionate, global community of volunteer editors*".
### Ottaviana's Kitchen
This website from 1996 is still up today and features a family's Italian recipes passed down from generation to generation:
> My Grandparents were immigrants from Italy. They came to Ellis Island, in search of the great American dream. This was where my mother was born in Newark, NJ. The recipes were passed to her from her mother, and then passed to me from mine. Since I have no children of my own, what better way to pass on these recipes but on my web page so everyone can enjoy them, and maybe start their own tradition with them. So for now, Buon Appetito.
You can read the [entire menu](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/menu.htm) and find authentic recipes to [sauces](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/sauces.htm), [soups](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/soups.htm), [risotti](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/risotto.htm), [cookies and dessert](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/cookies.htm), and much much more.
[](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/sauces.htm)
A screenshot of a recipe page from *Ottaviana's Kitchen*
 [Visit Ottaviana's Kitchen](http://ottavianaskitchen.com/intro.htm)
### Europäische Schmetterlinge
This is a German website about European butterflies created in 1998 and maintained until 2005 by Mario Maier. But it isn't just *any* old website about butterflies; this one is a near-exhaustive collection of almost all butterflies in Europe organised by genus/species, each with a description, an indication of its "flight time" and the corresponding caterpillar's plants of choice, along with photos (most taken by the author himself).
[](http://www.butterflies.de/)
A screenshot of the page on *Melitae didyma* butterflies on *Europäische Schmetterlinge*
Some of the pages like [this one on *Agrodiaetus ainsae*](http://www.butterflies.de/Deutsch/ainsae.htm) seem to have more information than currently [available on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyommatus_fulgens)! I originally found the [Geocities version](https://geocities.restorativland.org/Paris/Cafe/1508/) on Restorativland and then found this version that is currently up.
 [Visit Europäische Schmetterlinge](http://www.butterflies.de/)
It looks like the same author had a larger website for *all* butterflies on Earth that was up until 2018. You can visit [an archived copy of Butterfly Corner](https://web.archive.org/web/20180421072253/http://www.butterflycorner.net/Schmetterlinge-aus-aller-Welt.1.0.html).
### Marseillaise.org
Everything you wanted to know about the French national anthem *La Marseillaise*, from Ian Pattersonâs website thatâs been up âin one form or another since 1996â.
>
> Welcome. No doubt you've come here to see what all the fuss is about on the 14th of July. I think you'll find all you want to know here. La Marseillaise is the national anthem of France, believed by many to be the most stirring of all anthems. Here you will find a transcription of its score, complete sound clips in various formats and a translation into English.
>
[](http://www.marseillaise.org/english/)
A screenshot of *Marsaillaise.org*
 [Visit Marseillaise.org](http://www.marseillaise.org/english/ )
### The Webtender
Interested in mixing your own drinks? The Webtender, which has been online since 1995, features over 6000 recipes, a handbook with information on bar glassware, tools, measurements and ingredients, a forum, a wiki and even lets you search for recipes based on what you have in your bar!
[](https://www.webtender.com/info/)
A screenshot of the home page of Webtender
>
> I got the idea to this database when I saw a program called Bartender for the Amiga. I wanted to create a useful web-service, and decided to make something similar for the World Wide Web. Remember that this was just at the same time as the Web (I prefer to call it that) became popular with not only students and people connected to the Internet at work, but also to people at home.
>
>
> So, during spring 1995 I started to collect drink recipes from various Internet sources, including the mentioned program. One of the main sources was The (Un)Official Internet Bartender's Guide and postings to the newsgroup `rec.food.drink`.
>
>
> Then I decided to let my visitors help building the database. A lot of people make their own drinks, or have their own favourite, so why not let them add it to the database? I created a simple web form that visitors could use to add their drinks. It bacame a success!
>
>
> Today, about 1500 of the drinks have been added by me, and the rest have been contributed by visitors.
>
>
>
 [Visit The Webtender](https://www.webtender.com/info/)
### Distant Skies - A Crystalis Fansite
A fan-made website about an action-RPG game called Crystalis:
>
> 'Crystalis' is an Action-RPG for the Nintendo Entertainment System. It was released in Japan in April of 1990 and in the United States the following July. It was praised by critics at the time for its graphics and gameplay and it inspired a devout, if somewhat small, fan following. In Japan the game was called ã´ããã»ã¹ã¬ã¤ã¤ã¼ ã¯ãã天空ã®ã½ãã¿ or God Slayer: Sonata of the Distant Sky.
>
Built in the visual style of the game itself, the site provides detailed information about the story, characters, game world, spells and items in the game. Even though I donât know the game, itâs fun to browse around.
[](https://distantskies.neocities.org/)
A screenshot of the home page of *Distant Skies*
 [Visit Distant Skies - A Crystalis Fansite](https://distantskies.neocities.org/ )
## Your Own Corner of the Web
So the small web still exists, and is still giving us all kinds of websites to browse through and discover.
As fun as it is to explore what's out there, the best part is really to join in and make your own website. Not on closed platforms or on social media mediated by ad companies, but simply in your own little corner of the web. It's the best way to see how simple and open the web really is.
You could easily put up those drawings you've been making, share your thoughts and ideas, or reviews of your favourite whiskies. Make a website to share your writing tips or your best recipes. Or a list of your favourite addresses in your city for travelers who might be visiting.
All you would need is to learn basic markup (HTML) and styling (CSS), set up a site on a free host like [Neocities.org](https://neocities.org) and start playing. As you can imagine, Neocities is a Geocities-like free web host (minus the ads) whose mission it is to "*make the web fun again by giving you back control of how you express yourself online*". Discovering and joining Neocities was one of the reasons I got so excited about the small web. You can spend hours and hours [browsing through](https://neocities.org/browse?sort_by=last_updated) the many sites hosted there, or just get a free account to play with.
[](https://neocities.org)
A screenshot of the home page of Neocities
If you don't know how to make websites, HTMLDog has excellent tutorials to learn [basic HTML](https://htmldog.com/guides/html/beginner/) and [basic CSS](https://htmldog.com/guides/css/beginner/). If you prefer video, Khan Academy has an excellent free course for beginners called "[Making Webpages](https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming/html-css)" that looks very complete.
If you have no prior experience, it might take you a while to get a hang of how to change text sizes and colours, add images and link between pages, but I think thatâs part of the fun.
You could of course always just get a pre-made template or a theme and use that, but it's a different exercise. Itâs the difference between buying art and learning how to paint or sculpt. The end result might be the same but the exercise is very different. It might be more practical but is nothing like creating an HTML page from scratch and putting it up on the web for the world to see.
Another great thing about the web is that you can always view the source of any public website to take inspiration and learn. Make sure you pick simple, basic ones; the modern web is full of bloated websites that make HTML unreadable. This website, for example, only uses basic HTML and CSS and I invite you to play with [the code](https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/blob/master/essays/the-small-web/index.html) to your heartâs content. Itâs all in the [public domain](../../license.txt), so you can even copy all of it and modify it (and you donât have to credit me or even link back, itâs all free).
If you do end up making a website after reading this, Iâd love to see it (and perhaps even add it on here): send me an email at [webmaster@neustadt.fr](mailto:webmaster@neustadt.fr).
## Thoughts and Feedback
The small web still exists and has a lot to offer.
It might not be as polished as the commercial web we're used to, but I hope I have, at the very least, piqued your curiosity and made you want to explore it too.
I would love to hear from you if you have thoughts and comments about the essay, or if you have other interesting examples, or corrections. You can email me at [webmaster@neustadt.fr](mailto:webmaster@neustadt.fr). This essay along with everything else on this website is also on [GitHub](https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/blob/master/essays/the-small-web/index.html); if you find errors or have suggestions for an edit, you can simply send me a pull request.
I hope you enjoyed your stay on my website. Feel free to browse around; the [Retro Stuff](../../retro-stuff) has other relics from the 90s and the 2000s that you might enjoy. And of course, you can [sign my guestbook](https://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g26-37520-60) on your way out if you'd like.
**Elsewhere:** The [discussion on Hacker News](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23326329) around this essay has plenty of other interesting links and ideas that you might also enjoy. *(Updated 28 May).*
**Merci:** Thanks to Mario, Zach and Alex for [pointing out and fixing](https://github.com/parimalsatyal/neu/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed) some typos.
â
â [back home](../../)
[](../../license.txt)
[Rediscovering the Small Web](https://neustadt.fr/essays/the-small-web/), written by Parimal Satyal on 25 May 2020 and published on [Neustadt.fr](https://neustadt.fr). This text is in the public domain with a [CC0 1.0 Universal license](../../license.txt); you are free to do whatever you want with it (obviously doesn't apply to the websites and resources I've linked to, or the logos and graphics in the background). A link back is nice but not required.
â [back home](../../)
| https://neustadt.fr/essays/the-small-web/ |
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Ascii Art Dictionary (Andreas Freise)</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en">
<meta name="description" lang="en" content="Large Ascii Art collection, Ascii animations and related information like tutorials, FAQs, etc.">
<meta name="description" lang="de" content="Grosse Ascii Art Sammlung, sortiert nach Stichwort, Ascii Animationen und Informationen zu Ascii Art">
<meta name="keywords" lang="en" content="Ascii Art, collection, animation, tutorial, FAQ, pictures, ascii, art">
<meta name="keywords" lang="de" content="Ascii Art, Sammlung, Animation, Tutorial, FAQ, Bilder, ascii, Text, Kunst">
<meta name="author" content="Andreas Freise">
<meta name="date" content="2002-01-01">
<meta name="copyright" content="Andreas Freise">
<meta name="google-site-verification" content="Ff9-FLNBrtwiX2Whi9b9jWIpZ4tORMgTPIEMbklOmPY" />
<link rel=stylesheet media="screen" type="text/css" href="/css/ascii.css">
<link rel=stylesheet media="print" type="text/css" href="/css/print.css">
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#443333">
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%">
<colgroup>
<col width=80>
<col width="100%">
</colgroup>
<tr>
<td width=80 class="nav-col" valign=top>
<ul class="none">
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/">Home</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/news/">News</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/ascii/">Collection</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/ascii/my/">Gallery</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/ascii/anim/">Animations</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/info/">Resources</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/info/artists/">Artists</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/tools/">Tools</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/info/about/">About</a> </li>
<li><a class="nav-col" href="/info/copyright/">Copyright</a> </li>
</ul>
</td>
<td align=center width="100%">
<div align=center>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top>
<pre class="no-space"> _____
|__.__|
_____ _________ _______ ___.___ _____ __
/ _ \ / _____/ / ___ \| | | / _ \________/ |_
/ /_\ \ \_____ \ / \ \/| | | / /_\ \_ __ \ __\
/ | \/ \\ \___| | | / | \ | \/| |
\_::.|___ /_.:::.___/ \.::.___ /:._|.:.| \::..|____/:.| |._|
__ __
________ |__| __ |__|
\______ \ __ _____| |_ __ ____ ____ _____ _______ __ __
| | \| |/ ___\ __\ |/ _ \ / \\__ \\_ __ < | |
| ` \ \ \___| | | ( <_> ) | \/ __ \| | \/\__ |
/_________/__|\_____>__| |__|\____/|___|__(______/__| / |
__/ |
\ |
_. \_ /
_.-----'' `\
__..-----''' `.
< `\. '\
:. `. `\
`:. `. `-.
`:\ N o `. `+.
`:. A s i `. __.===::::;)
. r I `: c ___.__>'::::::<a class="no-line" href="/info/artists/andreas/">a:f</a>/'
C A `. _,===:::=-'-=-"""''
i d t '-/:::''
''
y</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<table class="main-links" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center width="600">
<tr>
<td align=center>
<a class="main-links" href="news/">What's new ?</a><br>
<div class="up">*-...________________...-*</div>
<br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align=center>
<table border=0 cellspacing=4 cellpadding=0 width=600>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=right width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="ascii/">The Collection</a> <br>
<span class="just">
This is the
main and name-giving part of this website: my collection of
Ascii Art pictures by various artists.
</span>
</td>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=left width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="ascii/my/">The Gallery</a><br>
<span class="just">
The gallery exhibits an almost complete show of my
own (a:f) Ascii creations.
</span>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=right width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="ascii/anim">Ascii Animations</a> <br>
<span class="just">
Yes, you can
animate Ascii Art - in several ways. Have a look at some examples and find more information.
</span>
</td>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=left width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="info/">Ascii Resources</a><br>
<span class="just">
More information about Ascii Art; e.g. tutorials on how to make
Ascii Art, FAQ for alt.ascii-art.
</span>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=right width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="info/artists">The Artists</a> <br>
<span class="just">
Links to personal homepages, Who is Who in Ascii Art and some
portraits of well know Ascii Artists.
</span>
</td>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=left width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="tools/">Ascii Tools</a><br>
<span class="just">
The only things you need for Ascii Art are a computer and a simple text
editor. Other tools might yet come in handy sometimes.
</span>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=right width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="info/about/">About this Site</a> <br>
<span class="just">
Some information about this site, a disclaimer and other legal necessities.
</span>
</td>
<td> </td>
<td class="main-links" align=left width=350 valign=top>
<a class="main-links" href="info/copyright/">Copyright</a><br>
<span class="just">
`Everything you see is copyrighted' - some advice on the use
of Ascii Art pictures.
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="nav-col" align=center valign=bottom width="80">
<table><tr><td><pre class="logo"> |
|
+ \
\\.G_.*=.
`( '/.\|
.>' (_--.
_=/d ,^\
~~ \)-' '
/ |
' ' <a class="logo" href="/info/artists/andreas/">a:f</a></pre>
</td></tr></table></td>
<td width="100%" valign=bottom>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="100%" valign=bottom>
<hr width=600>
<table cellspacing=10 cellpadding=0 align=center width="600">
<tr>
<td class="ring" align=right width="40%">
<table border=1 cellpadding=3><tr><td class="ring" align=center>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/index.php" target="_top">ascii arts ring</a><br>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/prev.php?curID=7" target="_top">[<<<]</a>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/list.php" target="_top">[ list ]</a>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/rand.php?curID=7" target="_top">[???]</a>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/register.php" target="_top">[ join ]</a>
<a href="http://artcode.org/ascii/next.php?curID=7" target="_top">[>>>]</a>
</td></tr></table>
</td><td class="ring" align=left width="60%">
<table border=1 cellpadding=3><tr><td class="ring" align=center>
The `webring.org' ASCII Art webring<br>
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&sprev" target="_top">Skip Prev</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&prev" target="_top">Prev</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&next" target="_top">Next</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&skip" target="_top">Skip Next</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?random&ring=ascii" target="_top">Random</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&next5" target="_top">Next 5</a>]
[<a href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&list" target="_top">List Sites</a>]
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
<br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="nav-bar" width="100%" align=center valign=bottom>
<br>Copyright © 1997-2004 Andreas Freise<br><br>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<hr>
</body>
</html>
|
Ascii Art Dictionary (Andreas Freise)
| * [Home](/)
* [News](/news/)
* [Collection](/ascii/)
* [Gallery](/ascii/my/)
* [Animations](/ascii/anim/)
* [Resources](/info/)
* [Artists](/info/artists/)
* [Tools](/tools/)
* [About](/info/about/)
* [Copyright](/info/copyright/)
|
| |
| --- |
|
```
_____
|__.__|
_____ _________ _______ ___.___ _____ __
/ _ \ / _____/ / ___ \| | | / _ \________/ |_
/ /_\ \ \_____ \ / \ \/| | | / /_\ \_ __ \ __\
/ | \/ \\ \___| | | / | \ | \/| |
\_::.|___ /_.:::.___/ \.::.___ /:._|.:.| \::..|____/:.| |._|
__ __
________ |__| __ |__|
\______ \ __ _____| |_ __ ____ ____ _____ _______ __ __
| | \| |/ ___\ __\ |/ _ \ / \\__ \\_ __ < | |
| ` \ \ \___| | | ( <_> ) | \/ __ \| | \/\__ |
/_________/__|\_____>__| |__|\____/|___|__(______/__| / |
__/ |
\ |
_. \_ /
_.-----'' `\
__..-----''' `.
< `\. '\
:. `. `\
`:. `. `-.
`:\ N o `. `+.
`:. A s i `. __.===::::;)
. r I `: c ___.__>'::::::[a:f](/info/artists/andreas/)/'
C A `. _,===:::=-'-=-"""''
i d t '-/:::''
''
y
```
|
| |
| --- |
| [What's new ?](news/)
\*-...\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_...-\*
|
|
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | [The Collection](ascii/)
This is the
main and name-giving part of this website: my collection of
Ascii Art pictures by various artists.
| | [The Gallery](ascii/my/)
The gallery exhibits an almost complete show of my
own (a:f) Ascii creations.
|
| | [Ascii Animations](ascii/anim)
Yes, you can
animate Ascii Art - in several ways. Have a look at some examples and find more information.
| | [Ascii Resources](info/)
More information about Ascii Art; e.g. tutorials on how to make
Ascii Art, FAQ for alt.ascii-art.
|
| | [The Artists](info/artists)
Links to personal homepages, Who is Who in Ascii Art and some
portraits of well know Ascii Artists.
| | [Ascii Tools](tools/)
The only things you need for Ascii Art are a computer and a simple text
editor. Other tools might yet come in handy sometimes.
|
| | [About this Site](info/about/)
Some information about this site, a disclaimer and other legal necessities.
| | [Copyright](info/copyright/)
`Everything you see is copyrighted' - some advice on the use
of Ascii Art pictures.
|
|
|
|
| |
| --- |
|
```
|
|
+ \
\\.G_.*=.
`( '/.\|
.>' (_--.
_=/d ,^\
~~ \)-' '
/ |
' ' [a:f](/info/artists/andreas/)
```
|
|
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
---
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| |
| --- |
| [ascii arts ring](http://artcode.org/ascii/index.php)
[[<<<]](http://artcode.org/ascii/prev.php?curID=7)
[[ list ]](http://artcode.org/ascii/list.php)
[[???]](http://artcode.org/ascii/rand.php?curID=7)
[[ join ]](http://artcode.org/ascii/register.php)
[[>>>]](http://artcode.org/ascii/next.php?curID=7) |
|
| |
| --- |
|
The `webring.org' ASCII Art webring
[[Skip Prev](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&sprev)]
[[Prev](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&prev)]
[[Next](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&next)]
[[Skip Next](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&skip)]
[[Random](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?random&ring=ascii)]
[[Next 5](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&id=8&next5)]
[[List Sites](http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ascii&list)]
|
|
|
| Copyright © 1997-2004 Andreas Freise |
|
---
| http://www.ascii-art.de/ |
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<META name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 6.0">
<META name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<TITLE>Jurek Patoczka Travel Photo Gallery</TITLE>
<meta http-equiv="Page-Enter" content="blendTrans(Duration=1.0)">
<meta name="Microsoft Border" content="none">
<style>
<!--
.leftcoltext {
background-color: #333333;
padding-left: 15px;
padding-right: 10px;
border: 1px solid #131111;
color: #ffffff;
}
-->
</style>
</HEAD>
<BODY background="MainPage-Index%20Graphics%20and%20Photo/mapa2sepia.jpg" style="text-align: center">
<div id="fb-root"></div>
<script>(function(d, s, id) {
var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];
if (d.getElementById(id)) {return;}
js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id;
js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1";
fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);
}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<html xmlns:og="http://opengraphprotocol.org/schema/"
xmlns:fb="http://www.facebook.com/2008/fbml">
<DIV align="center">
<TABLE border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="80%">
<TR>
<TD align="center" valign="top" >
<P style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">Access the World</FONT><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="5">
- Jurek Patoczka Travel Photo Gallery</FONT><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="5">
</font><hr color="#800000" width="82%">
<td>
<div class="fb-like" data-href="www.patoczka.net" data-send="true" data-width="300" data-show-faces="false"></div>
</td>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</DIV>
<div align="center">
<table border="0" width="1072" cellpadding="3" id="table1" style="border-collapse: collapse" height="1073">
<tr>
<td width="346" bordercolor="#800000" bordercolorlight="#800000" bordercolordark="#800000" bgcolor="#FFCC66" align="left">
<a href="Rodzinne%20Strony/index.htm">
<font color="#800000" face="Lucida Calligraphy" size="1">
<IMG border="0" src="MainPage-Index%20Graphics%20and%20Photo/PlFlash.gif" width="29" height="26" align="left"></font><FONT color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC" size="1"><span style="text-decoration: none">Patoczka
Family Page (In Polish)</span></FONT></a></td>
<td width="349" bgcolor="#FFCC66" align="left">
<font color="#800000" size="1">
<span style="text-decoration: none">
<a href="Jurek%20Pages/Pages/Ordering.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<img border="0" src="MainPage-Index%20Graphics%20and%20Photo/j0304787[1].gif" width="26" height="24" align="left"></a></span></font><a href="Jurek%20Pages/Pages/Ordering.htm" style="text-decoration: none"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="1" color="#800000">Exhibitions
and Contact Information</font></a></td>
<td bgcolor="#FFCC66" align="left"><font color="#006699" size="1">
<a style="text-decoration: none" href="Jurek%20Pages/Main%20Personal%20Page.htm">
<img border="0" src="MainPage-Index%20Graphics%20and%20Photo/j0251277[1].gif" width="26" height="22" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">Personal
Page</font></a></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="30">
</td>
<td width="349" style="text-align: center" height="30">
</td>
<td width="340" height="30">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 5px">
<a href="Fiji%20select/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Fiji%20select/images/Fiji%20Icon.jpg" width="80" height="150" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Fiji
and Vanuatu</font><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#800000"> </font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 5px">
<font color="#CC3300" face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2">
<span style="text-decoration: none">Sailing around
Fiji and Vanuatu Archipelagos of Southern Pacific.</span></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:5px">
<a href="Columbia%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Columbia%20Showcase/Colombia%20icon%203.jpg" width="145" height="150" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Colombia</font></a></p>
<p style="margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:5px">
<font color="#CC3300" face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2">Tranquil
country with dynamic and ambitious population and little known
pre-Columbian cultures.</font></td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-bottom: 5px">
<font color="#800000">
<a href="Africa%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Africa%20Showcase/images/Icon.jpg" width="150" height="107" align="left"></a></font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px">
<font size="4" color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"><u></a>
</u><font color="#800000"><a href="Africa%20Showcase/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">Southern
Africa Highlights</font></a></font></font><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px">
<font color="#CC3300" face="Eras Demi ITC">
<span style="text-decoration: none"><font size="2">Republic of South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana and Swaziland.</font></span></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 5px">
<a href="Cuba%20Colonial/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Cuba%20Revolutionary/Cuba%20Icon.JPG" width="108" height="150" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Cuba</font><span style="text-decoration: none"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#800000"> </font></span></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 5px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300"><a href="Cuba%20Colonial/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none"><font color="#CC3300">
Colonial Havana, Trinidad, Santa Clara and Centifuego visited at the
time of passing of Fidel</font></a>.</font><font size="2" color="#CC3300">
Plus Che and famous ancient cars.</font></td>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<p>
<a href="Indochina%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Indochina%20Showcase/images/Icon4.jpg" width="105" height="150" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Indochina</font><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300"><span style="text-decoration: none">
</span></font></a>
<p style="margin-top: 5px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Thailand from
temples to beaches, <span style="text-decoration: none">
Cambodia's Agkor Wat and tour of Myanmar.</span></font><p> </td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<a href="Africa%20Safari%20showcase/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">
<img border="0" src="Africa%20Safari%20showcase/images/Icon.jpg" width="127" height="150" align="left"></font><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Southern
Africa Safari </font>
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">
<span style="text-decoration: none"> </span></font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<a href="Africa%20Safari%20showcase/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Wildlife and
flora </font></a>
<font color="#CC3300" face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2">from Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park (RSA), Etosha NP(Namibia), Chobe NP
(Botswana) and Matobos NP (Zimbabwe).</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a>
<a href="Flowers%202018/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Flowers%202018/Icon%20flowers.jpg" width="116" height="150" align="left"><font size="4" color="#800000">Flowers
from 3 Continents</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">
<a href="Flowers%202018/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<font color="#CC3300">Orchids from
Estepona, Spain, Roses from Portland, Oregon and flowers from Medellin Botanic Garden</font></a>,
Colombia</font></p>
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
</p>
</td>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC">
<a href="Colorado%202015%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Colorado%202015%20Showcase/thumbnails/Colorado%202015%20Icon.jpg" width="100" height="150" align="left"></a></font><p>
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a>
<a href="Colorado%202015%20Showcase/index.htm">
<font size="4" color="#800000">Colorado Plateau II</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">
<a href="Colorado%202015%20Showcase/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<font color="#CC3300">Grand Circle of Southern Utah and Northern
Arizona</font></a> including major National Parks</font><a href="Colorado%202015%20Showcase/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="1" color="#CC3300">.</font></a></td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<a href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm"><font color="#800000">
<img border="0" src="Chiapas%20Select/images/Chiapas%20Icon.jpg" width="91" height="150" align="left"></font></a><font face="Eras Demi ITC"><font size="4" color="#800000"><a href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm"><font color="#800000">Chiapas
and Ta</font></a></font><u></a><a href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm"><font size="4" color="#800000">basco</font></a></u></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<a style="text-decoration: none" href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">M</font><font size="2" color="#CC3300">exican
States of Chiapas and Tabasco</font></a><font size="2" color="#CC3300"><a href="Canada%202014%20Showcase/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none"><font color="#CC3300"> </font></a></font>
<a href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<font size="2" color="#CC3300">including</font></a><font color="#CC3300"><a style="text-decoration: none" href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm"><font size="2" color="#CC3300"> Mayan sites of Palenque and </font>
</a><font size="2"></a></font></font>
<a style="text-decoration: none" href="Chiapas%20Select/index.htm">
<font size="2" color="#CC3300">
Tonina.</font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
</p>
<p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a>
<a href="Nicaragua%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Nicaragua%20Additional/thumbnails/Nicaragua%20Additional-038.jpg" width="150" height="100" align="left"><font size="4" color="#800000">Nicaragua</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Granada, Lake
Nicaragua with Omepete Island and Pacific Coast</font></p>
<p> </td>
<td width="33%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC">
</a></font>
<a href="Canada%202014%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Canada%202014%20Showcase/images/Icon2.jpg" width="100" height="150" align="left"></a><font face="Eras Demi ITC"><a href="Canada%202014%20Showcase/index.htm"><font size="4" color="#800000">Canadian
Rockies</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">
<a href="Canada%202014%20Showcase/index.htm" style="text-decoration: none">
<font color="#CC3300">Banff, Jasper, Yoho, Kootenay, Waterton and Glacier National Park (USA) plus few
shots from Montreal</font></a>.</font></p>
<p> </td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a>
<a href="Portugal%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Portugal%20Showcase/images/Icon2.jpg" width="150" height="109" align="left"><font size="4" color="#800000">Portugal</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Tour of major
sites of Portugal from Porto to Southern Coast.</font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a>
<a href="Bolivia%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Bolivia%20Showcase/Bolivi%20icon%202.jpg" width="112" height="150" align="left"><font size="4" color="#800000">Bolivia</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Bolivia
Highlights with
La Paz, Sucre, Potosi, Santa Cruz and Salar de Uyuni.</font></p>
<p> </td>
<td width="349" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<a href="Yucatan%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Yucatan%20Colonial/thumbnails/Yucatan%20Colonial%20and%20Nature-31.jpg" width="150" height="100" align="left"><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4">Yucatan</FONT></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Mayan sites,
colonial architecture and nature of Mexican Yucatan.</font></p>
</td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC">
<a href="Australia%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Australia%20Showcase/Icon.jpg" width="109" height="150" align="left"></a></font><p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC"><font color="#800000">
</a></font><font size="4" color="#800000"><a href="Australia%20Showcase/index.htm"><font color="#800000">
Australia</font></a></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Grand tour of
Australia including Sydney, Cairns Darwin, Broome, Perth plus Kakadu,
Litchfield, Purnululu and Ayers Rock (Uluru-Kata Tjuta) National
Parks.</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Oaxaca1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Oaxaca1/ikona.jpg" width="144" height="150" align="left"></a><font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"></a><a href="Oaxaca1/index.htm"><font size="4" color="#800000">Oaxaca</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Mexican State of
Oaxaca with Zapotec sites of Monte Alban, Mitla and Yagul.</font></p></td>
<td width="349" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<a href="Paris%20Select/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">
<img border="0" src="Paris%20Select/thumbnails/Paris%20Icon%202.jpg" width="134" height="133" align="left"></font></a><font face="Eras Demi ITC"><font color="#800000"></a></font><font size="4" color="#800000"><a href="Paris%20Select/index.htm"><font color="#800000">Par</font></a>is</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Highlights of
Paris.</font></p></td>
<td width="33%" style="text-align: left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<a href="Hawaii%20select/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="index.1.jpg" align="left"><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4">Hawaii</FONT></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Tour of four
main islands of Maui, Big
Island, Oahu and Kauai.</font></p>
<p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="139" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<a href="India%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="India%201/thumbnails/45-IMG_1700.jpg" width="150" height="116" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">India</font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Grand tour of
Southern India plus Golden
Triangle.</font></td>
<td align="left" width="349" valign="top">
<a href="Costa%20Rica%20Showcase/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Costa%20Rica%20Showcase/Ikona.jpg" width="110" height="150" align="left"></a><font face="Eras Demi ITC"></a></font><a href="Costa%20Rica%20Showcase/index.htm"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Costa
Rica</font></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">National Parks
of Corcovado, Los
Quetzales, Manuel Antonio, Marina Ballena, Volcan Poas, Carara,
Volcan Arenal, Rincon de la Vieja and Volcan Poas.</font></p><p> </td>
<td width="34%" height="141" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Cartagena%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Cartagena%201/Index%20page%20thumb%20photo.jpg" width="100" height="150" align="left"></a><font face="Eras Demi ITC"></a></font><a href="Cartagena%201/index.htm"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Cartagena</font></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Splendid
colonial architecture of Cartagena de
Indias in Colombia.</font></p>
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
</p>
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
</p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="139" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Panama%20main/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Panama%20main/Ikona.jpg" width="112" height="150" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Panama</font></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Panama City,
Canal Zone, Portobelo, El Valle. Plus Embora Indians of Darien Gap and Kuna
Indians from Archipelago de San Blas.</font></td>
<td align="left" width="349" valign="top">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4">
<A href="colorado/index.htm">
<IMG border="0" src="colorado/thumbnails/10WindowsIMG0045.jpg" width="98" height="150" align="left"><font color="#800000">Colorado
Plateau I</font></A></font><P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Great National
Parks of the American West.</FONT></td>
<td width="34%" height="139" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Italy%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Italy%201/thumbnails/04%20Trajan's%20Column%20and%20Santa%20Maria%20di%20Loreto,%20and%20Santissimo%20Nome%20di%20Maria%20churches.jpg" width="150" height="108" align="left"><u><font face="Eras Demi ITC"></a></font><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Southern </font>
</u><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Italy</font></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Southern Italy, from Rome to Sicily. Includes
Monte Cassino, Trani, Matera, Alberobello, Lecce, Tropea, Siracusa, Palermo.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="129" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Krakow%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Krakow%201/thumbnails/01.jpg" width="102" height="131" align="left"></a><P style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<FONT size="4" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">
<font color="#800000"><a href="Krakow%201/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">Kraków</font></a></font><u></a></u></FONT></P>
<P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#CC3300" size="2">Images from the
Hometown.</FONT></P>
</td>
<td height="139" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Peru1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Peru1/images/04.jpg" width="113" height="153" align="left"></a><font size="4"><a href="Peru1/index.htm"><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">Peru</FONT></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Expedition to
Colca Canyon, the deepest canyon on earth. Includes images
from Arequipa.</font></p>
</td>
<td align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Argentina%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Argentina%201/images/18.jpg" width="108" height="150" align="left"><FONT size="4" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">Argentina
& Chile</FONT></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Includes Buenos
Aires, Mt. Fitz Roy, Perito Moreno, Terra del Fuego, Ushuaia, Chile
(Torres del Paine, Punta Arenas) plus Iguacu Falls area of Brazil.</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="160" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC"><a href="PacificWest1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="PacificWest1/thumbnails/05.jpg" width="99" height="150" align="left"></a></font><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000"><a href="PacificWest1/index.htm"><font color="#800000">Pacific
North-West</font></a></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Olympic, Mt. Rainer, Crater Lake, Yosemite, Sequoia and Redwood
National Parks. Devil's Pile, Hah Rain Forest, Mono Lake, Mt.
Hood.</font></td>
<td width="349" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Galapagos1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Galapagos1/thumbnails/04.jpg" width="101" height="150" align="left"><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4">Galapagos</FONT></a><P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font size="2" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#CC3300">Galapagos
Islands and mainland Ecuador. Quito, Guayquil, Otovallo and
Cotopaxi.</font></P>
</td>
<td width="340" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Egypt1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Egypt1/thumbnails/31.jpg" width="150" height="104" align="left"><FONT size="4" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">Egypt</FONT></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Classic images
from ancient Egypt with Giza, Luxor,
Edfu, Esna and Assuan.</font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="140" align="left" valign="top">
<P style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4"><A href="NYC1/index.htm">
<IMG border="0" src="NYC1/thumbnails/01ProPhotoWTCMG0022.jpg" width="114" height="150" align="left"></A></font></P>
<P style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
<A href="NYC1/index.htm">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">New York </FONT>
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000">City</FONT></A></P>
<P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font size="2" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#CC3300">Mostly World
Trade Center.</font></P>
</td>
<td align="left" valign="top">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC"><a href="Grecja1/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">
<img border="0" src="Grecja1/thumbnails/24.jpg" width="150" height="126" align="left"></font></a></font><font color="#800000" face="Eras Demi ITC"><a href="Grecja1/index.htm"><font size="4" color="#800000">Greece</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font color="#CC3300" size="2" face="Eras Demi ITC">Greece's
archeological and scenic highlights including Athens,
Delphi, Meteora, Zagoria, Lefkada, Peloponese, Santorini, Crete.</font></p>
</td>
<td align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Venezuela%201/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Venezuela%201/thumbnails/07.jpg" width="150" height="112" align="left"><font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Venezuela</font></a><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<FONT size="2" color="#CC3300">Gran Sabana waterfalls plus
collection of Roraima and Kukenan "monsters."</FONT><p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="132" align="left" valign="top"><u><a href="CanadaWeb1/index.htm">
<font color="#800000">
<img border="0" src="CanadaWeb1/thumbnails/02.jpg" width="110" height="150" align="left"></font></a></u><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4"><u><a href="CanadaWeb1/index.htm"><font color="#800000">Canada
Maritime Provinces</font></a></u></FONT><P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font size="2" face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#CC3300">New Brunswick,
Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. Hopewell Rocks, Fundy
Bay, Tidal wave.</font></P>
<P style="margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -2px">
</P>
</td>
<td width="349" align="left" valign="top"><A href="China1/index.htm"><font face="Eras Demi ITC">
<span style="text-decoration: none">
<IMG border="0" src="China1/thumbnails/02Brama1MG0014.jpg" width="104" height="150" align="left"></span></font><FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4">China</FONT></A><P style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#CC3300" size="2">Beijing with
Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, Lama Temple, Ming Tombs and the
Great Wall.</FONT></P>
</td>
<td height="132" align="left" valign="top">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4">
<a href="Arizona1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Arizona1/thumbnails/01.jpg" width="105" height="145" align="left"><font color="#800000">Arizona</font></a></font><p style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Sedona, Saguaro National
Park and Organ Pipe Cactus and Chiricahua National Monuments.</font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="346" height="107" align="left" valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0"><a href="Margarita1/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="Margarita1/thumbnails/03Krzyz.jpg" width="150" height="100" align="left"></a></p>
<p>
<a href="Margarita1/index.htm">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="4" color="#800000">Margarita</font></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: -15px; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Venezuelan
island of Margarita. </font></p>
</td>
<td width="349" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="FloridaWeb/index.htm">
<img border="0" src="FloridaWeb/thumbnails/01Balon.jpg" width="150" height="102" align="left"></a><p>
<a href="FloridaWeb/index.htm">
<FONT face="Eras Demi ITC" color="#800000" size="4">Florida Keys</FONT></a></p>
<P style="margin-top: -15px; margin-bottom: 0px">
<font face="Eras Demi ITC" size="2" color="#CC3300">Southern Florida
and Florida Keys.</font></P>
</td>
<td height="107" align="left" valign="top">
<a href="Guatemala%201/index.htm">
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<h1>
<font face="Comic Sans MS">The Island's Computer Role Playing Games Page</font></h1></center>
<p><br><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#000080"><font size=-1>Arial,
from Ultima Underworld I, The Stygian Abyss.</font></font></font></b>
<br>
<hr>
<p><img SRC="grenbull.gif" height=18 width=18><font face="Comic Sans MS"><a href="#reviews">
Reviews of Computer Role Play Games.</a></font>
<p><img SRC="grenbull.gif" height=18 width=18><font face="Comic Sans MS"> <a href="#SOAPBOX">Michael's
Soapbox</a> - my ramblings of current CRPG topics.</font>
<p><img SRC="grenbull.gif" height=18 width=18><font face="Comic Sans MS"><a href="#contro">Controversy
Corner -</a> Games that where the bugs stopped me from completing the story.</font>
<p><img SRC="grenbull.gif" height=18 width=18><font face="Comic Sans MS"><a href="#recommended">Recommended</a>
- Games that I can happily recommend.</font><font face="Comic Sans MS"></font>
<p><img SRC="grenbull.gif" height=18 width=18><font face="Comic Sans MS">
<a href="#link">Some other links.</a></font>
<br>
<hr>
<center>
<h3> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><b>ROLE PLAY GAMES REVIEWS<br>
</b></font></h3>
</center>
<ul>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="arena.htm">Arena - The
Elder Scrolls</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="savant.htm">Crusaders
of the Dark Savant ( Pics )</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="krondor.htm">Betrayal
at Krondor</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="raven1.html">Ravenloft
- Stradt's Possession</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="raven2.html">Ravenloft
II - Stone Prophet</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="menzo.htm">Menzoberranzan</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="zeen.htm">Clouds of Xeen
/ Darkside of Xeen</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="summ.htm">The Summoning</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="dark.htm">Dark Sun -
Shattered Lands</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="black.htm">Ultima VII
- The Black Gate ( Pics )</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="anvil.htm">Anvil of Dawn</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="tscape.htm">Thunderscape</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="under1.htm">Ultima Underworld
I - The Stygian Abyss ( Pics )</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="uw2.htm">Underworld II
( Pics )</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="dagger.htm">Daggerfall</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="albion.htm">Albion</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="diablo.htm">Diablo</a></font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="balder.htm">Balder's
Gate ( Pics )</a> </font></font></li>
<li><a href="ww.htm"><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Wizards and Warriors</font></a>
<img src="new2.gif" height=16 width=32> </li>
</ul>
<table BORDER BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0" >
<tr>
<td WIDTH="100%">
<center>
<a NAME="SOAPBOX"></a><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=+1>SOAPBOX
CORNER </font></font></b>
</center>
<p><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">Random Dungeons </font></b>
<p><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size="-1">The random dungoen is used
in a few games. Daggerfall was full of them, and more recently Darkstone
and Diablo have hailed them as a desirable feature. Randomness comes at
a price and that price is well constructed dungeons that require some
brain work to solve. Random dungeons ring an alarm bell with me.</font></font></b>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h3>
<a NAME="recommended"></a><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1>RECOMMENDED
!!!</font></font></h3>
<center><img SRC="under3.jpg" height=200 width=320></center>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Ultima Underworld 1</b> - This
game is a few years old now, but I would be happy to go out and find a similar
product on the shelf tomorrow. Great Atmosphere.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Civilization and Civilization
2</b> - The original Civilization had for its time game play and depth that
was unequalled . In my mind the best strategy game ever released. Civilization
2 improves upon the original with updated graphics, more units and other improvements.
The Computer AI still cheats though !</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Star Control II</b> - A huge
game that combines action and strategy. Very hard to to finish.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Arena - Elder Scrolls</b> -
A massive game play area, but beware of the bugs. Great monster sound affects
.See Review.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Betrayal at Krondor</b> - One
of the best RPG games ever released. See Review.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Albion</b> - Albion combines
traditional RPG elements like turn based movement with a refreshing original
story.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Fallout</b> - Another game
with an original story. Set in a post nuclear environment. A bit gory though.</font></font></li>
<li> <font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>Balder's Gate</b> - A lightweight
in the grey matter department, but none the less a well constructed game.</font></font></li>
<li><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="-1"><b>Wizards and Warriors</b> - at last
a return to true CRPG experience.</font></li>
</ol>
<hr>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1>A list of games that have left
me angry, even with the ' patches ' I was not able to finish the game.</font></font>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>STONEKEEP </b>- The game
was built on hype. It has serious bugs and I struck just about every one
of them. Naturally I freed Enigma before visiting the Fairy Realm ( A big
bug ! ). The animations and intro are good, but the game play graphics
leave much to be desired, even Crusaders of the Dark Savant has more graphical
variety. Sorry but I can't see the were the years producing this game went
too.</font></font>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>DAGGERFALL</b> - What else
you say about a game that cannot be finished for many people, even with
' all ' the patches. Arena's bugs were mostly crashes, which did not stop
one finishing the storyline. However Daggerfall's bugs are game plot based,
such as not having completed quest x, which means the story and quest y
does not kick in. Aside from that Daggerfall's dungeons quickly become
repetitive and it's still a big meaningless world outside the story.</font></font>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><b>MIGHT & MAGIC VI</b>
- It even pains me to place MM6 into this category, but it qualified. I
was really enjoying the game and having spent weeks battling towards the
end I found that I could not finish the game. As soon as I tried to place
a crystal on one of the pedestals the games bugged out. I tried all the
patches, all the advice, etc, to no avail.</font></font>
<center>
<p><img SRC="hline.gif" height=5 width=576></center>
<hr>
<br><a NAME="link"></a><font face="Comic Sans MS">Some other Links.</font>
<br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1><a href="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwmuse/games.htm">Jeanne's
great games links</a> - a very extensive list of invaluable information
for the gamer.</font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS"></font>
<p>
<hr WIDTH="100%"><font face="Comic Sans MS"></font>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1>Any questions, comments or
hellos can be sent to <a href="mailto:michaelt@ozemail.com.au">michaelt@ozemail.com.au</a></font></font>
<p>
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</center>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p><b><i><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size=-1>Last update 25th July 2001.</font></font></i></b>
<p><br>
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The Island's Computer Role Role Play Games Page
#
The Island's Computer Role Playing Games Page
**Arial,
from Ultima Underworld I, The Stygian Abyss.**
---
[Reviews of Computer Role Play Games.](#reviews)
 [Michael's
Soapbox](#SOAPBOX) - my ramblings of current CRPG topics.
[Controversy
Corner -](#contro) Games that where the bugs stopped me from completing the story.
[Recommended](#recommended)
- Games that I can happily recommend.
[Some other links.](#link)
---
### **ROLE PLAY GAMES REVIEWS**
* [Arena - The
Elder Scrolls](arena.htm)
* [Crusaders
of the Dark Savant ( Pics )](savant.htm)
* [Betrayal
at Krondor](krondor.htm)
* [Ravenloft
- Stradt's Possession](raven1.html)
* [Ravenloft
II - Stone Prophet](raven2.html)
* [Menzoberranzan](menzo.htm)
* [Clouds of Xeen
/ Darkside of Xeen](zeen.htm)
* [The Summoning](summ.htm)
* [Dark Sun -
Shattered Lands](dark.htm)
* [Ultima VII
- The Black Gate ( Pics )](black.htm)
* [Anvil of Dawn](anvil.htm)
* [Thunderscape](tscape.htm)
* [Ultima Underworld
I - The Stygian Abyss ( Pics )](under1.htm)
* [Underworld II
( Pics )](uw2.htm)
* [Daggerfall](dagger.htm)
* [Albion](albion.htm)
* [Diablo](diablo.htm)
* [Balder's
Gate ( Pics )](balder.htm)
* [Wizards and Warriors](ww.htm)
| |
| --- |
|
**SOAPBOX
CORNER**
**Random Dungeons**
**The random dungoen is used
in a few games. Daggerfall was full of them, and more recently Darkstone
and Diablo have hailed them as a desirable feature. Randomness comes at
a price and that price is well constructed dungeons that require some
brain work to solve. Random dungeons ring an alarm bell with me.**
|
###
RECOMMENDED
!!!
1. **Ultima Underworld 1** - This
game is a few years old now, but I would be happy to go out and find a similar
product on the shelf tomorrow. Great Atmosphere.
2. **Civilization and Civilization
2** - The original Civilization had for its time game play and depth that
was unequalled . In my mind the best strategy game ever released. Civilization
2 improves upon the original with updated graphics, more units and other improvements.
The Computer AI still cheats though !
3. **Star Control II** - A huge
game that combines action and strategy. Very hard to to finish.
4. **Arena - Elder Scrolls** -
A massive game play area, but beware of the bugs. Great monster sound affects
.See Review.
5. **Betrayal at Krondor** - One
of the best RPG games ever released. See Review.
6. **Albion** - Albion combines
traditional RPG elements like turn based movement with a refreshing original
story.
7. **Fallout** - Another game
with an original story. Set in a post nuclear environment. A bit gory though.
8. **Balder's Gate** - A lightweight
in the grey matter department, but none the less a well constructed game.
9. **Wizards and Warriors** - at last
a return to true CRPG experience.
---
A list of games that have left
me angry, even with the ' patches ' I was not able to finish the game.
**STONEKEEP** - The game
was built on hype. It has serious bugs and I struck just about every one
of them. Naturally I freed Enigma before visiting the Fairy Realm ( A big
bug ! ). The animations and intro are good, but the game play graphics
leave much to be desired, even Crusaders of the Dark Savant has more graphical
variety. Sorry but I can't see the were the years producing this game went
too.
**DAGGERFALL** - What else
you say about a game that cannot be finished for many people, even with
' all ' the patches. Arena's bugs were mostly crashes, which did not stop
one finishing the storyline. However Daggerfall's bugs are game plot based,
such as not having completed quest x, which means the story and quest y
does not kick in. Aside from that Daggerfall's dungeons quickly become
repetitive and it's still a big meaningless world outside the story.
**MIGHT & MAGIC VI**
- It even pains me to place MM6 into this category, but it qualified. I
was really enjoying the game and having spent weeks battling towards the
end I found that I could not finish the game. As soon as I tried to place
a crystal on one of the pedestals the games bugged out. I tried all the
patches, all the advice, etc, to no avail.
---
Some other Links.
[Jeanne's
great games links](http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwmuse/games.htm) - a very extensive list of invaluable information
for the gamer.
---
Any questions, comments or
hellos can be sent to [michaelt@ozemail.com.au](mailto:michaelt@ozemail.com.au)
[](http://ozthunder.com/chase/chase.html)[](http://ozthunder.com/index.html)[](http://ozthunder.com/photo/photo.htm)[](http://ozthunder.com/sunset/sunset.htm)[](http://www.ozemail.com.au/~michaelt/surfing.html)[](http://ozthunder.com/wildflowers/index.htm)
***Last update 25th July 2001.***
geovisit();
| http://geocities.bootstrike.com/The%20Island%27s%20Computer%20Role%20Role%20Play%20Games%20Page/default.htm |
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| http://www.austindiggers.com/ |
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[ <a href="dsi_uk.htm">Delphine Software</a> | <a href="mracr_en.htm">MotoRacer
1</a> , <a href="mr2.htm">2</a>, <a href="mrwt_en.htm">WorldTour</a>, and <a href="mr3pc.htm">3
for PC</a> | <a href="f2b_uk.htm">Fade To Black</a> ]<br>
[ <a href="fb_en.htm">Flashback</a> | <a href="dsi_uk.htm#Historic">Other games</a>
| <a href="pa_en.htm">Ads</a> | <a href="alinks.htm">Links</a> ] <br>
[ <a href="homepage.htm">Cette page en français</a> ]
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<hr SIZE="3" WIDTH="50%" ALIGN="CENTER">
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<h1>
Welcome</h1></center>
<hr SIZE="3" WIDTH="50%" ALIGN="CENTER">
<hr SIZE="3" WIDTH="40%" ALIGN="CENTER">
<br>
<br>
Hi,
<dl>
<dd> I've been working for <a href="dsi_uk.htm">Delphine Software</a> as a programmer
since 1993. I worked on FlashBack PC, Fade To Black PC, <a href="mracr_en.htm">Moto
Racer</a> for PC, <a href="mr2.htm">MotoRacer 2</a>, <a href="mrwt_en.htm">MotoRacer
WorldTour</a>, <a href="mr3pc.htm">Moto Racer 3 for PC</a>, and Motoracer
Traffic.<br>
I don't work for Delphine Software anymore since dec 2003.<br>
I found a new job since then, but I don't work anymore in video games.<br>
</dd>
<dt><br>
</dt>
<dd> I like mountain biking in the forests, taking <a href="photos.htm">pictures</a>,
<a href="video_en.htm">video</a>. I collect pocket calculators and computers
of the 70's and 80's.</dd>
<dd> I am also interested by planes and chinese checkers game.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd> If you speak a little french, you may look at the <a href="homepage.htm">french
version</a> of this place, as the contents may differ.</dd>
</dl>
<hr SIZE="2" ALIGN="CENTER">
<dl>
<dd>
The pages you must go :</dd>
</dl>
<center>
<p><a href="http://www.denisland.com/">Denis</a>, a great artist
<p><a href="http://leonard.oxg.free.fr/">Léonard</a> and his Atari ST
soundchip emulator
<p><a href="http://www.florianguzek.com">Florian</a>
<p><a href="http://klaudius.free.fr">klaudius' homepage</a> 3D stuffs
</center>
<hr SIZE="2" ALIGN="CENTER">
<dl>
<dd>
Some interesting links :</dd>
</dl>
<center>3D relief on a screen (without glasses) like you've never seen
before :
<a href="http://www.micronet.fr/~emuller/alio2.html">Alioscopie</a>.
<br>More links on <a href="alinks.htm">my links page</a>.</center>
<hr SIZE="2" ALIGN="CENTER">
<center>
<h4>
UNDER CONSTRUCTION <blink>! ! !</blink></h4></center>
<hr SIZE="2" ALIGN="CENTER">
<dl>
<dd> Thank for visiting.</dd>
<center>
To contact me : <a href="http://ramal.fr/spip.php?auteur3">Email</a> (answer
can be long to come)
</center>
<p>
<hr SIZE="2" ALIGN="CENTER">
</dl>
<dl>
<dd> Version 73</dd>
<dd> Last update : 21 nov 2004</dd>
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<dl>
<dt> Page built with Dreamweaver 2 and tested with the following browser :</dt>
<dd><a href="http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/">Firefox</a> : A good
alternative to IE. </dd>
<dd> </dd>
<dd><a href="http://www.operasoftware.com/index.html">Opéra</a> (worth
to try !), the one I use</dd>
<dd> </dd>
<dd><a href="http://www.netscape.com">Netscape</a> Navigator</dd>
<dd> MS Internet Explorer</dd>
<dd> Mosaic (a long time ago)</dd>
<dd> </dd>
</dl>
<center>
Number of visitors :<img SRC="http://counter.digits.net/wc/-d/4/ramal_homepage" HSPACE=4 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 height=20 width=60 align=CENTER>
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|
AL's homepage
[ [Delphine Software](dsi_uk.htm) | [MotoRacer
1](mracr_en.htm) , [2](mr2.htm), [WorldTour](mrwt_en.htm), and [3
for PC](mr3pc.htm) | [Fade To Black](f2b_uk.htm) ]
[ [Flashback](fb_en.htm) | [Other games](dsi_uk.htm#Historic)
| [Ads](pa_en.htm) | [Links](alinks.htm) ]
[ [Cette page en français](homepage.htm) ]
---
---
#
Welcome
---
---
Hi,
I've been working for [Delphine Software](dsi_uk.htm) as a programmer
since 1993. I worked on FlashBack PC, Fade To Black PC, [Moto
Racer](mracr_en.htm) for PC, [MotoRacer 2](mr2.htm), [MotoRacer
WorldTour](mrwt_en.htm), [Moto Racer 3 for PC](mr3pc.htm), and Motoracer
Traffic.
I don't work for Delphine Software anymore since dec 2003.
I found a new job since then, but I don't work anymore in video games.
I like mountain biking in the forests, taking [pictures](photos.htm),
[video](video_en.htm). I collect pocket calculators and computers
of the 70's and 80's.
I am also interested by planes and chinese checkers game.
If you speak a little french, you may look at the [french
version](homepage.htm) of this place, as the contents may differ.
---
The pages you must go :
[Denis](http://www.denisland.com/), a great artist
[Léonard](http://leonard.oxg.free.fr/) and his Atari ST
soundchip emulator
[Florian](http://www.florianguzek.com)
[klaudius' homepage](http://klaudius.free.fr) 3D stuffs
---
Some interesting links :
3D relief on a screen (without glasses) like you've never seen
before :
[Alioscopie](http://www.micronet.fr/~emuller/alio2.html).
More links on [my links page](alinks.htm).
---
####
UNDER CONSTRUCTION ! ! !
---
Thank for visiting.
To contact me : [Email](http://ramal.fr/spip.php?auteur3) (answer
can be long to come)
---
Version 73
Last update : 21 nov 2004
Page built with Dreamweaver 2 and tested with the following browser :
[Firefox](http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/) : A good
alternative to IE.
[Opéra](http://www.operasoftware.com/index.html) (worth
to try !), the one I use
[Netscape](http://www.netscape.com) Navigator
MS Internet Explorer
Mosaic (a long time ago)
Number of visitors :
since 29 april 2000 [](http://www.digits.net/)
I use a free web counter from <http://www.digits.net/>
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<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Document Map"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Plain Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="E-mail Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Top of Form"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Normal (Web)"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Acronym"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Address"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Cite"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Code"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Definition"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Keyboard"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Preformatted"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Sample"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Typewriter"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Variable"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Normal Table"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="annotation subject"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="No List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Contemporary"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Elegant"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Professional"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Subtle 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Subtle 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Balloon Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Theme"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"
Name="List Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"
Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"
Name="Subtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"
UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"
UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Mention"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Smart Hyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Hashtag"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
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<link rel=alternate type="application/rss+xml" title=ROR href=ror.xml>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us>
<meta name=Description
content="Your source for Vancouver 2010 Winter Games Memorabilia & Collectibles">
<meta name=KeyWords
content="2010,pin,pins,Vancouver,olympic,radar,the,guy,olympics,radarthepinguy,winter,collectables,games,bid,bid pin,bid pins,Whistler,olympic pin,winter">
<meta http-equiv=distribution content=global>
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<meta name=revisit content="3 days">
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="../../../../../../../favicon.ico">
<script language="JavaScript">
function click() {
if (event.button==2) {
alert('You have entered a No Right Click Zone. Copyright RadarThePinGuy.com (C)2012 This web site is not connected, authorized, endorsed or affiliated, with the International Olympic Committee (IOC), VANOC, Canadian Olympic Committee (COC), or any other National Olympic Committee. :O)');
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<td width=290 style='width:217.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='mso-no-proof:yes'><img
width=80 height=58 id="_x0000_i1097" src="canada_gm.gif"
alt="Vancouver is the Host City of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games. We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World!"></span></p>
</td>
<td width=649 style='width:486.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-size:36.0pt;
font-family:"Mickey",serif;color:red'>Radar The Pin Guy</span></b></p>
</td>
<td width=267 style='width:200.25pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='mso-no-proof:yes'><img
width=80 height=58 id="_x0000_i1096" src="canada_gm.gif"
alt="Vancouver is the Host City of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games. We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World!"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:24.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Welcome Pin Collectors <span class=GramE>From</span>
Around The World</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table2>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td width="21%" style='width:21.0%;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td>
<td width="61%" style='width:61.0%;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=style37 align=center style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;text-align:center'><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='mso-no-proof:yes'><img
width=375 height=500 id="_x0000_i1095" src="Picture%20133.jpg"
alt="Radar at Coca Cola Pin Trading Centre"></span></b><b><span
style='color:blue'><br>
<br>
</span></b><b><span style='color:#1D97C3'>Vancouver was the Host City of the
2010 Winter Olympic Games<br>
We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World!</span><br>
</b><b><span style='color:black'><br>
<span class=style221>Whether you checked our <span class=SpellE>lastest</span>
updates page, bought, sold, or traded pins,</span><br>
<span class=style221>visited, or emailed us over the last 6 years, we would
like to thank all of you.</span><br>
<span class=style221>We have enjoyed meeting many of you online, and at local
pin shows.</span><br>
<span class=style221>It was very interesting to meet many of you from all
over the world,</span><br>
<span class=style221>who <span class=SpellE>desended</span> and left your
mark trading pins at the games.</span><br>
<span class=style221>We hope you enjoyed coming to our beautiful city and
enjoyed the 2010 Olympic Games.</span></span><o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:20.0pt;color:red'>Do Not Purchase Pins<br>
This website is for reference only.<br>
If you do purchase, you will receive a refund.<br>
We are closed. We do not have access to website.<br>
This website has not been updated since 2010.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:13.5pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td width="18%" style='width:18.0%;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:13.5pt'><script language="JavaScript1.2">
//Script courtesy of Sharon Gartenberg's Date Countdown
//JavaScript generator under the GNU General Public License
var today = new Date;
var Future0 = new Date;
ThisYear = 2010;
var FutureMonth = 1;
var FutureDate = 12;
var faraevent = "The Start Of The 2010 Winter Olympic Games";
Future0.setMonth(FutureMonth, FutureDate);
Future0.setFullYear(ThisYear);
today1 = Date.parse(today);
future1 = Date.parse(Future0);
secleft = future1 - today1;
miliday = 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000;
daysleft = secleft/miliday;
daysleftint = Math.round(daysleft);
if (daysleftint > 1)
document.write("There are ", daysleftint, " days until ", faraevent , "! ");
else if (daysleftint == 1)
document.write(faraevent, " is tomorrow! ");
else if (today1 == future1)
document.write(faraevent, " is today! ");
</script><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><br>
<br>
<br>
Pin 1177<br>
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normal'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
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src=1177sml.jpg alt="Pin Trading Pin"></span></b></span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><br>
</span></b><a name=piclink1><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
color:blue'><span style='mso-field-code:" HYPERLINK \0022\0022 "'><span
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"Times New Roman";color:blue'><a
href="http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=25160136">Search this site</a>
powered by <a href="http://www.freefind.com"><span class=SpellE>FreeFind</span></a><br>
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</span></b><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:red'>Get Your Must-Have
Collectables Here</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:red'><br>
</span></b><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times",serif;
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"Times New Roman";color:red'>Email @ </span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'><a href="mailto:radar@radarthepinguy.com">radar@radarthepinguy.com</a></span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";color:blue'><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></b><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1D97C3'>Bookmark us and come back
often.<br>
We hope to be your source for information & all 2010 official pins<br>
<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
color:green'>We trade/buy/sell<br>
<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>We only
trade/buy/sell official Canadian Edition pins that support the Vancouver 2010
Olympic & Paralympic Games.<br>
We <span style='color:red'>do not</span> trade/buy/sell the American USOC pins
that have recently appeared on some American websites and on <span
class=SpellE>Ebay</span>.<br>
If you wish to guarantee your purchase of official Canadian 2010 Olympic pins,
please acquire your pins from us,<br>
or other reliable Canadian sources or you will be purchasing USOC pins licensed
for the US market.<br>
These games were held in Canada not the USA.<br>
<span class=style11>Warning:</span> Be aware that many of the pins being sold
on <span class=SpellE>ebay</span> are counterfeit pins. <br>
</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;
color:red;mso-no-proof:yes'><img border=0 width=80 height=58 id="_x0000_i1093"
src="http://www.radarthepinguy.com/canada_gm.gif"
alt="Trade/Buy/Sell Canadian Pins"></span></b><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;
color:red'><br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00CC33'><br
style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br>
<b><a href="collection.htm"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>2010
Collection Gallery</span></a> </b></span><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Updated April 20/2010</span></b><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:outset #ECE9D8 4.5pt;
mso-yfti-tbllook:1184' id=table48>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-row-margin-right:132.8pt'>
<td style='border:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='mso-cell-special:placeholder;border:none;border-bottom:outset #ECE9D8 1.0pt'
width=177 colspan=4><p class='MsoNormal'> </td>
</tr>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:1'>
<td width="14%" style='width:14.0%;border:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;border-top:
none;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td width="13%" style='width:13.0%;border-top:none;border-left:none;
border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
</tr>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:2'>
<td colspan=2 style='border:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:
inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
</tr>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:3'>
<td colspan=2 style='border:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:
inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
</tr>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:4;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='border:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:
inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center'><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-no-proof:
yes'><img border=0 width=267 height=267 id="_x0000_i1092"
src="http://radarthepinguy.com/CandidateProto.JPG"
alt="ProtoType Candidate City Pins"></span></b><a name=piclink></a></p>
</td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span class=style11><b>Extremely
Rare Pins</b></span><b><br>
3/4" Wide x 1 3/4"High</b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Thanks
to a good friend, I was able to add a this set <span class=GramE>of
pins</span> to my collection.</span></b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style='border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;
border-right:inset #ECE9D8 1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
mso-border-left-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;mso-border-alt:inset #ECE9D8 .75pt;
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table49 height=134>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;height:85.5pt'>
<td rowspan=2 style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:85.5pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><a
href="mailto:radar@radarthepinguy.com"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span
style='mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none'><img
border=0 width=95 height=144 id="_x0000_i1091" src=dogmailsmall.gif
alt="Email Radar The Pin Guy"></span></b></a></p>
</td>
<td width=469 style='width:351.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:85.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:red'>Shipping is the same for 1-10 pins $3.50US</span></b><b><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue'><br>
</span></b><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:red'>Free Shipping for orders over $100US</span></b><b><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue'><br>
</span></b><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Multiple
items will be shipped together to save you shipping costs.<br>
<span style='color:red'>BC Residents must add 12% HST </span><br>
Please E-mail any questions.<br>
</span></b><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#068837'>Communication is the
key to successful transactions.</span></strong><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><br>
Shop with Confidence! Thank you for your interest !<br>
<a
href="http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=radarthepinguy"
target="_blank"><span class=SpellE>Ebay</span> Feedback</a>
<a
href="http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=radarthepinguy"
target="_blank"><span class=SpellE>Ebay</span> Me Page</a></span></b><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=185 style='width:138.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:85.5pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:red'>Last</span></strong><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS";color:red;mso-no-proof:yes'><img border=0 width=53 height=15
id="_x0000_i1090" src=update.gif alt=update></span></b><strong><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:red'> 08/16/10</span></strong><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:red'><br>
</span></b><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:green'>Enjoy Yourselves</span></strong></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes;height:22.5pt'>
<td width=469 style='width:351.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:22.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>We
can be emailed @ <a href="mailto:radar@radarthepinguy.com">radar@radarthepinguy.com</a></span></b><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=185 style='width:138.75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:22.5pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><!--WEBBOT bot="Script" startspan PREVIEW="Site Meter" -->
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://s24.sitemeter.com/js/counter.js?site=s24Whistler">
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href="http://s24.sitemeter.com/stats.asp?site=s24Whistler"
target="_top">
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alt="Site Meter" border="0"/></a> </noscript>
<!--WEBBOT bot="Script" Endspan i-checksum="28786" --></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p align=center style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center'><b><a
href="collection.htm"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>2010
Collection Gallery</span></a> </b><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Updated
April 20/2010</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table62>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=72 style='width:54.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'><a href="#top">Top</a></span></strong></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;display:none;mso-hide:
all'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table50>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><a href="javascript:void(0)"><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial",sans-serif;mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none'><img
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alt="Free Guestmap from Bravenet.com"></span></b></a></p>
</td>
<td width=299 style='width:224.25pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><a
href="http://pub41.bravenet.com/guestbook/3521052146/"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none'><img border=0
id="_x0000_i1088" src=guestbook.gif alt="Sign my Guestbook from Bravenet.com"></span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=282 style='width:211.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><!-- Start Bravenet.com Service Code -->
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><a
href="http://pub41.bravenet.com/forum/3521052146"><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none'><img
border=0 id="_x0000_i1087" src=forum.gif
alt="Free Message Forum from Bravenet.com"></span></a><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<!-- Start Bravenet.com Service Code --><!-- End Bravenet.com Service Code -->
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";color:blue'> </span></b><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184'
id=table52>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='mso-no-proof:yes'><img
border=0 width=150 height=60 id="_x0000_i1086" src="bnr_wePrefer_150x60.gif"
alt="Easy, fast, & secure"></span></p>
</td>
<td width=325 style='width:243.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><a
href="https://secure.paypal.com/xclick/business=paypal@radarthepinguy.com&return=http:/radarthepinguy.com"><span
style='mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none'><img
border=0 width=150 height=52 id="_x0000_i1085" src=x-click-but6.gif
alt="Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!"></span></a><b><br>
<span class=SpellE>Paypal</span> Account: <a
href="mailto:paypal@radarthepinguy.com">paypal@radarthepinguy.com</a></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div align=center>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0
style='mso-cellspacing:0cm;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt'
id=table53>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='padding:7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-no-proof:yes'><img
border=0 width=210 height=80 id="_x0000_i1084"
src="horizontal_solution_PP.gif" alt="Solution Graphics"></span><span
style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<div align=center>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:0cm;background:white;mso-yfti-tbllook:
1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table54>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><!--robbo-->
<div align=center>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=250
style='width:187.5pt;mso-cellspacing:0cm;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm' id=table55>
<tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0
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| Vancouver is the Host City of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games. We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World! | **Radar The Pin Guy** | Vancouver is the Host City of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games. We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World! |
Welcome Pin Collectors From
Around The World
| | | |
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| | **Radar at Coca Cola Pin Trading Centre****Vancouver was the Host City of the
2010 Winter Olympic Games
We Congratulate Vancouver and Welcome The World!****Whether you checked our lastest
updates page, bought, sold, or traded pins,
visited, or emailed us over the last 6 years, we would
like to thank all of you.
We have enjoyed meeting many of you online, and at local
pin shows.
It was very interesting to meet many of you from all
over the world,
who desended and left your
mark trading pins at the games.
We hope you enjoyed coming to our beautiful city and
enjoyed the 2010 Olympic Games.**
**Do Not Purchase Pins
This website is for reference only.
If you do purchase, you will receive a refund.
We are closed. We do not have access to website.
This website has not been updated since 2010.**
| **//Script courtesy of Sharon Gartenberg's Date Countdown
//JavaScript generator under the GNU General Public License
var today = new Date;
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ThisYear = 2010;
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var faraevent = "The Start Of The 2010 Winter Olympic Games";
Future0.setMonth(FutureMonth, FutureDate);
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**Bookmark us and come back
often.
We hope to be your source for information & all 2010 official pins****We trade/buy/sell****We only
trade/buy/sell official Canadian Edition pins that support the Vancouver 2010
Olympic & Paralympic Games.
We do not trade/buy/sell the American USOC pins
that have recently appeared on some American websites and on Ebay.
If you wish to guarantee your purchase of official Canadian 2010 Olympic pins,
please acquire your pins from us,
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for the US market.
These games were held in Canada not the USA.
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**[2010
Collection Gallery](collection.htm)** **Updated April 20/2010**
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| **ProtoType Candidate City Pins** | | | **Extremely
Rare Pins****3/4" Wide x 1 3/4"High**
**Thanks
to a good friend, I was able to add a this set of
pins to my collection.** | |
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**[2010
Collection Gallery](collection.htm)** **Updated
April 20/2010**
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR> <BR>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328372.html">Hair goals </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>09:11:04 12/07/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328374.html">Re: Hair goals </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>03:54:43 12/17/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328376.html">Re: Hair goals </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>02:38:09 12/26/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328373.html">Re: Hair goals </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>08:36:54 12/12/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328371.html">Hair goals </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>09:06:47 12/07/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328366.html">Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare [PIC]</a> - <b>João David</b> <i>12:05:42 11/17/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328370.html">Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:37:33 11/24/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328369.html">Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>17:32:03 11/22/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328368.html">Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>17:25:47 11/22/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328367.html">Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:09:49 11/17/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328359.html">Singer Josh Quaye</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:15:46 10/12/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328363.html">Re: Singer Josh Quaye</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:48:30 10/16/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328365.html">Re: Singer Josh Quaye</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:29:15 10/22/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328362.html">Re: Singer Josh Quaye</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>21:25:32 10/12/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328364.html">Yes I do! :) (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:10:26 10/22/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328348.html">Hair growth [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:25:53 10/02/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328354.html">Re: Hair growth </a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>03:15:56 10/07/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328358.html">Re: Hair growth </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:30:34 10/09/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328353.html">Re: Hair growth </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>02:31:35 10/06/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328351.html">Re: Hair growth </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:50:00 10/03/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328352.html">Re: Hair growth </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:36:07 10/05/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328345.html">18 months of growth [PIC]</a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>04:33:04 10/01/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328350.html">Re: 18 months of growth </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>02:45:59 10/03/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328356.html">Re: 18 months of growth </a> - <b>Luigi</b> <i>17:40:51 10/07/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328346.html">Re: 18 months of growth </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:47:57 10/01/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328349.html">Re: 18 months of growth </a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>02:45:54 10/03/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328326.html">62 and growing [PIC]</a> - <b>George Wheeler</b> <i>02:51:10 9/17/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328361.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:56:16 10/12/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328355.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>John Doe</b> <i>03:16:02 10/07/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328347.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:52:41 10/01/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328340.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>06:10:57 9/26/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328332.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:03:26 9/19/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328341.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Toolong Girlyhair</b> <i>16:44:23 9/26/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328343.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:23:06 9/27/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328342.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Tim</b> <i>02:46:25 9/27/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328331.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>17:38:40 9/18/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328329.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:26:04 9/18/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328327.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Tim</b> <i>02:44:53 9/18/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328330.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>George Wheeler</b> <i>17:38:35 9/18/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328344.html">Re: 62 and growing </a> - <b>Tony</b> <i>16:35:52 9/29/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328320.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:19:31 9/08/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328328.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:23:38 9/18/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328357.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:40:56 10/07/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328319.html">Update... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>15:58:21 9/04/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328333.html">Re: Update... </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:10:51 9/19/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328322.html">Re: Update... </a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>03:53:50 9/12/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328314.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>04:36:22 9/03/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328334.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:12:36 9/19/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328337.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>04:31:18 9/24/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328339.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:15:16 9/25/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328323.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>luke</b> <i>02:50:14 9/15/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328338.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>04:31:25 9/24/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328321.html">Another angle [PIC]</a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>03:53:44 9/12/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328325.html">Re: Another angle </a> - <b>Kalps</b> <i>17:24:40 9/15/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328316.html">Pony [PIC]</a> - <b>Andy</b> <i>04:50:36 9/04/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328336.html">Re: Pony </a> - <b>Sim</b> <i>02:48:13 9/22/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328315.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:16:41 9/03/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328312.html">Update. [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:50:49 8/30/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328335.html">Re: Update. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:15:13 9/19/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328313.html">Re: Update. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:51:22 9/02/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328317.html">Re: Update. [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>04:50:42 9/04/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328318.html">Re: Update. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:45:55 9/04/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328307.html">15 months of growth [PIC]</a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>16:29:25 8/14/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328311.html">Re: 15 months of growth </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>16:58:32 8/28/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328309.html">Re: 15 months of growth </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>07:57:24 8/21/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328304.html">Letting it hang loose [PIC]</a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>02:53:24 7/31/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328294.html">Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:27:37 6/27/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328303.html">Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:09:28 7/15/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328296.html">Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:56:08 6/27/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328297.html">Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>08:56:49 6/29/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328295.html">Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:31:16 6/27/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328293.html">Hair loss</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:14:20 6/11/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328302.html">Re: Hair loss</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:13:15 7/14/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328292.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:39:17 6/10/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328291.html">Long Hair at 65 [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:39:12 6/10/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328305.html">Re: Long Hair at 65 </a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>02:52:21 8/03/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328306.html">Re: Long Hair at 65 </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>02:52:18 8/08/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328289.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>22:06:01 5/29/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328290.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:51:22 6/04/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328298.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>22:32:35 6/30/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328299.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:30:36 7/02/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328282.html">New to thread 1 year growth [PIC]</a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>15:57:56 5/13/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328284.html">Re: New to thread 1 year growth </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>02:52:55 5/19/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328287.html">Re: New to thread 1 year growth </a> - <b>Kris</b> <i>04:37:03 5/21/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328285.html">Re: New to thread 1 year growth </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>04:32:11 5/20/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328280.html">Growing... [PIC]</a> - <b>Michael</b> <i>15:00:00 5/11/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328286.html">Re: Growing... </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>04:32:58 5/20/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328281.html">Re: Growing... </a> - <b>sreve</b> <i>18:01:39 5/12/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328278.html">Hair growth update at 43 years old. [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:32:14 5/09/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328288.html">Re: Hair growth update at 43 years old. </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>17:37:30 5/26/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328274.html">Exhibition about hair in Paris</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:43:17 4/10/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328271.html">Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>16:44:09 3/22/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328273.html">Re: Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:48:37 3/24/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328272.html">Re: Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:46:08 3/24/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328267.html">Two knee length guys</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>10:40:08 3/05/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328268.html">Re: Two knee length guys</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:38:43 3/05/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328260.html">55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:02:36 2/26/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328301.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:43:34 7/10/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328263.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:44:12 2/27/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328264.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:59:49 2/27/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328265.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>15:00:17 2/28/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328262.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>15:29:05 2/26/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328261.html">Re: 55 inches shaved off</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:49:46 2/26/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328256.html">Getting older, losing my hair....... [PIC]</a> - <b>Onslow</b> <i>17:26:21 2/16/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328269.html">Re: Getting older, losing my hair....... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:07:36 3/11/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328258.html">Re: Getting older, losing my hair....... </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:17:16 2/18/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328259.html">Re: Getting older, losing my hair....... </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:10:32 2/18/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328257.html">Re: Getting older, losing my hair....... </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>15:19:40 2/17/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328254.html">Mane and beard at 53 [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:36:09 1/14/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328249.html">Growing... [PIC]</a> - <b>Michael</b> <i>02:47:59 12/23/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328250.html">Re: Growing... </a> - <b>steve b</b> <i>15:25:49 12/24/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328247.html">ChatGPT AI is growing its hair</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:59:52 12/21/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328244.html">2023: First longhair in space!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>11:53:10 12/19/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328248.html">Re: 2023: First longhair in space!</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>05:16:07 12/22/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328245.html">Re: 2023: First longhair in space!</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:53:04 12/20/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328242.html">Mens pigtails/double ponytails</a> - <b>A_Okyes</b> <i>16:40:40 12/18/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328243.html">Re: Mens pigtails/double ponytails</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>02:46:14 12/19/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328270.html">Re: Mens pigtails/double ponytails</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:24:32 3/11/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328238.html">Back on the journey :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>16:58:13 12/16/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328239.html">Re: Back on the journey :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>04:52:48 12/17/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328375.html">Re: Back on the journey :) </a> - <b>Scott from Nottingham </b> <i>14:48:55 12/20/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328252.html">Better picture [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>19:08:26 1/02/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328241.html">Re: Back on the journey :) </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:19:29 12/17/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328225.html">Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>20:01:38 12/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328324.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:11:39 9/15/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328237.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>05:02:16 12/16/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328236.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>05:00:34 12/16/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328233.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:38:07 12/11/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328226.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:35:08 12/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328229.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:16:10 12/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328230.html">Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:04:40 12/11/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328221.html">Photo 12/07/22 [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:54:03 12/07/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328234.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>A</b> <i>11:41:43 12/15/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328240.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:01:29 12/17/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328227.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:40:19 12/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328231.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:25:51 12/11/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328222.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:34:43 12/08/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328232.html">Re: Photo 12/07/22 </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:26:54 12/11/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328197.html">Hair Growth Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>19:45:39 10/09/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328184.html">A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:07:30 10/05/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328360.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:33:59 10/12/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328300.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Scott from Nottingham </b> <i>04:09:07 7/04/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328283.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>CTB</b> <i>04:40:30 5/14/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328275.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Duncan Roy</b> <i>05:06:04 4/14/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/328224.html">Gone but Not Forgotten</a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>19:46:02 12/09/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328223.html">Gone but Not Forgotten</a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>19:20:52 12/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328228.html">Re: Gone but Not Forgotten</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:47:37 12/10/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328218.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Gman</b> <i>02:46:21 12/02/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328207.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>04:43:00 10/22/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328208.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:03:30 10/22/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328212.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:02:20 11/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328213.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:05:22 11/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328216.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:03:25 11/29/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328219.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:45:54 12/05/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328203.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:08:16 10/12/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328209.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:17:33 10/22/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328211.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:16:19 11/08/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328202.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>12:48:23 10/11/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328210.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:20:22 10/22/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328191.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:51:21 10/08/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328214.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:09:13 11/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328217.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>15:34:21 12/01/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328194.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:04:12 10/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328195.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:33:00 10/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328199.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:06:33 10/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328200.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>11:38:49 10/10/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328185.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>09:58:00 10/06/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328186.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:05:58 10/06/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328215.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:11:55 11/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328220.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:59:45 12/05/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328187.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>02:23:35 10/07/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328192.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>17:00:45 10/08/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328193.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavudN</b> <i>01:46:00 10/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328196.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:37:36 10/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328205.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:18:20 10/17/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328206.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:43:40 10/21/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328198.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>01:34:31 10/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328201.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:41:53 10/10/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328189.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>04:52:54 10/08/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328190.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:03:31 10/08/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328188.html">Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:11:55 10/07/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328168.html">11 Years Update (video) [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:33:42 9/08/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328172.html">Re: 11 Years Update (video) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:27:18 9/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328174.html">Re: 11 Years Update (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:09:03 9/13/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328171.html">Re: 11 Years Update (video) </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>04:18:02 9/10/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328173.html">Re: 11 Years Update (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:49:52 9/13/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328177.html">Re: 11 Years Update (video) </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:28:46 9/13/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328163.html">Recent hair pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>06:37:03 9/02/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328182.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:58:35 9/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328253.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Cesar</b> <i>02:45:01 1/06/23</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328255.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>20:20:20 1/28/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328179.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Georges</b> <i>10:09:12 9/19/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328180.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:18:12 9/20/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328175.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:14:42 9/13/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328181.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:20:05 9/20/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328167.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>longhairandfurs</b> <i>02:34:23 9/07/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328170.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>02:43:46 9/09/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328169.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>02:43:40 9/09/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328165.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>22:09:39 9/03/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328166.html">Re: Recent hair pic </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>22:17:23 9/03/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328155.html">Hair Update. [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>04:21:02 8/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328204.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>22:27:06 10/14/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328176.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:20:50 9/13/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328161.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>06:49:26 8/31/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328162.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>03:56:58 9/01/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328159.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>16:36:51 8/29/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328160.html">Re: Hair Update. [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>00:53:36 8/31/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328156.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>14:20:52 8/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328157.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>22:30:58 8/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328158.html">Re: Hair Update. </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>16:36:46 8/29/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328147.html">What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?</a> - <b>Balding Longhair</b> <i>02:39:32 8/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328150.html">Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>11:00:15 8/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328151.html">Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?</a> - <b>Balding Longhair</b> <i>14:58:00 8/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328153.html">Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>23:05:25 8/26/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328145.html">Relocating, job search with long hair? [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:40:13 8/24/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328146.html">Re: Relocating, job search with long hair? </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>19:01:22 8/24/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328148.html">Re: Relocating, job search with long hair? </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:39:37 8/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328149.html">Re: Relocating, job search with long hair? </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>07:55:20 8/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328152.html">Re: Relocating, job search with long hair? </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:36:03 8/26/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328154.html">Re: Relocating, job search with long hair? </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>04:46:35 8/27/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328138.html">Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>01:49:02 8/15/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328144.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:02:43 8/22/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328139.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:34:10 8/18/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328141.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:15:25 8/21/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328143.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:46:18 8/21/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328140.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>02:49:32 8/21/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328142.html">Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:43:49 8/21/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328127.html">Summer '22 update... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>21:50:49 6/15/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328135.html">Re: Summer '22 update... </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>03:42:11 6/21/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328136.html">Re: Summer '22 update... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>16:50:00 6/23/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328134.html">Re: Summer '22 update... </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:17:49 6/20/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328133.html">Re: Summer '22 update... </a> - <b>steve b</b> <i>20:56:19 6/18/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328131.html">Re: Summer '22 update... </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:46:21 6/16/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328130.html">Re: Summer '22 update... </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:08:31 6/16/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328126.html">Knee-length</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>02:50:44 6/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328129.html">Re: Knee-length</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:00:21 6/16/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328116.html">first time growing my hair [PIC]</a> - <b>steve b</b> <i>04:41:30 6/04/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328118.html">Re: first time growing my hair </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:44:55 6/05/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328114.html">Did someone say tail? [PIC]</a> - <b>Ponytail Boy</b> <i>02:40:01 6/03/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328121.html">Re: Did someone say tail? </a> - <b>Kalps</b> <i>02:35:41 6/06/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328117.html">Re: Did someone say tail? </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>04:41:36 6/04/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328119.html">Re: Did someone say tail? </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:48:11 6/05/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328106.html">Hair and beard update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>07:48:57 5/29/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328107.html">Re: Hair and beard update </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>02:38:54 5/31/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328098.html">I reached the 10 year mark [video] [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:29:50 5/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328103.html">Re: I reached the 10 year mark [video] </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:43:59 5/28/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328102.html">Re: I reached the 10 year mark [video] </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>13:09:49 5/28/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328094.html">Natural colour. [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>17:05:42 5/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328164.html">Re: Natural colour. [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>22:08:36 9/03/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328178.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:27:12 9/16/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328137.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>alex2000</b> <i>04:43:30 8/07/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328128.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>21:53:14 6/15/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328132.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>03:50:51 6/18/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328113.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>steve b</b> <i>16:54:21 6/02/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328125.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:38:15 6/08/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328115.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>steve b</b> <i>04:41:24 6/04/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328104.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:49:17 5/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328108.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:38:59 5/31/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328111.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:16:13 5/31/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328112.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:36:55 6/01/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328100.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:26:26 5/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328109.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:39:04 5/31/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328097.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>18:48:56 5/27/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328110.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:39:10 5/31/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328122.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>nativecarolinian</b> <i>16:39:32 6/06/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328123.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:38:04 6/08/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328096.html">Re: Natural colour. [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>17:45:12 5/26/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328266.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>Sim</b> <i>02:44:43 3/01/23</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328095.html">Re: Natural colour. [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>17:45:07 5/26/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328308.html">Re: Natural colour. </a> - <b>kalps</b> <i>04:10:35 8/20/23</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328093.html">The girls at work [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>17:05:37 5/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328120.html">Re: The girls at work </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:49:37 6/05/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328124.html">Re: The girls at work </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:38:10 6/08/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328086.html">Still growing [PIC]</a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>02:40:52 4/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328092.html">Re: Still growing </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:55:38 5/10/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328090.html">Re: Still growing </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>07:30:59 4/28/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328088.html">Re: Still growing </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>02:49:25 4/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328089.html">Re: Still growing </a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>16:51:26 4/25/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328081.html">Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>14:39:05 4/07/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328101.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:53:21 5/28/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328105.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Amz</b> <i>04:30:49 5/29/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328091.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>07:34:01 4/28/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328084.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:21:02 4/13/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328083.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:30:59 4/11/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328082.html">Re: Are long haired man being getting common?</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:27:50 4/08/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328072.html">Greetings again </a> - <b>nativecarolinian</b> <i>02:36:55 3/09/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328076.html">Re: Greetings again [PIC]</a> - <b>Jennifer </b> <i>04:38:27 3/27/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328080.html">Re: Greetings again </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>10:45:55 4/02/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328078.html">Re: Greetings again </a> - <b>nativecarolinian</b> <i>14:29:32 3/27/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328075.html">Re: Greetings again </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>08:21:20 3/10/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328074.html">Re: Greetings again </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>08:21:19 3/10/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328067.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:46:42 3/02/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328085.html">Re: Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>19:40:34 4/13/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328073.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>12:32:27 3/09/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328069.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:48:50 3/02/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328070.html">Re: Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:44:33 3/02/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328068.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:37:33 3/02/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328071.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:49:21 3/02/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328063.html">5+ Years [PIC]</a> - <b>RossRS</b> <i>04:21:51 2/20/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328065.html">Re: 5+ Years </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:26:44 2/23/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328061.html">Progress Report</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>14:16:27 2/14/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328064.html">Re: Progress Report</a> - <b>Bruce J</b> <i>05:10:15 2/23/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328062.html">Re: Progress Report</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:33:54 2/15/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328052.html">Internet</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>05:55:29 2/03/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328059.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:56:01 2/06/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328057.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>06:43:28 2/05/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328058.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>22:38:06 2/05/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328060.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>20:22:11 2/07/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328055.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Mike</b> <i>18:03:08 2/03/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328054.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>13:20:02 2/03/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328056.html">Re: Internet</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>21:10:32 2/03/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328047.html">Greetings from an old-timer [PIC]</a> - <b>Peter</b> <i>17:04:36 2/01/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328079.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer </a> - <b>Deanof316</b> <i>02:35:25 3/28/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328053.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer </a> - <b>Peter</b> <i>11:21:34 2/03/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328051.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>11:52:40 2/02/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328050.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>11:47:26 2/02/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328049.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>01:54:05 2/02/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328048.html">Re: Greetings from an old-timer </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:28:04 2/01/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328041.html">Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>15:25:07 1/22/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328045.html">Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:32:39 1/30/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328044.html">Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:13:17 1/25/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328042.html">Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:40:38 1/25/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328043.html">Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>08:46:27 1/25/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328032.html">Trim or let grow [PIC]</a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>05:04:11 1/16/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328039.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:50:18 1/19/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328046.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>02:45:51 1/31/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328038.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>19:06:12 1/17/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328037.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:57:49 1/17/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328033.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:07:51 1/16/22</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328035.html">Re: Trim or let grow </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:29:34 1/17/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328029.html">2021/22 [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>22:50:54 12/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328034.html">Re: 2021/22 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:11:16 1/16/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/328030.html">Re: 2021/22 </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:07:12 12/24/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328027.html">Happy Christmas</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:05:48 12/23/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328028.html">Re: Happy Christmas</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:58:00 12/24/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328024.html">Successful regrowth</a> - <b>Sam</b> <i>02:35:53 12/08/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328025.html">Re: Successful regrowth</a> - <b>Ned from Oz</b> <i>16:17:23 12/15/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328031.html">Re: Successful regrowth</a> - <b>Sam</b> <i>02:47:43 12/27/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328020.html">Hair Front View [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>22:36:22 11/12/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/328019.html">1 Year Update At The Persimmon Tree [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>18:39:05 11/07/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328023.html">Fall Colors [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>08:41:04 12/02/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/328022.html">Fall Colors [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>08:41:02 12/02/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328012.html">Back view [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>02:20:00 10/30/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328017.html">Photo editor magic [PIC]</a> - <b>Pete_J</b> <i>18:48:31 11/03/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/328013.html">Re: Back view </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:17:40 10/30/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328014.html">Re: Back view </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:20:00 11/01/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328010.html">Texas</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>18:04:09 10/26/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328011.html">Re: Texas</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>08:51:05 10/27/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328001.html">Guy with long hairpiece [PIC]</a> - <b>changedmydisguise</b> <i>05:08:46 10/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328021.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>Mike</b> <i>18:50:32 11/14/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/328008.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:28:03 10/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328009.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>changedmydisguise</b> <i>05:01:29 10/24/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328003.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>12:42:10 10/18/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328005.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>changedmydisguise</b> <i>16:28:55 10/18/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328002.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:47:35 10/18/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328004.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>changedmydisguise</b> <i>16:28:50 10/18/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328007.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece. photo</a> - <b>changedmydisguise</b> <i>16:01:24 10/19/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328015.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece. photo</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>04:35:01 11/03/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/328006.html">Re: Guy with long hairpiece </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>12:42:51 10/19/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327999.html">Pony [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>04:59:03 10/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328000.html">Re: Pony </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:53:09 10/11/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327998.html">Hair grows uneven </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:07:40 10/08/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327991.html">Turned 59 yesterday [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>10:00:35 10/01/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327995.html">Re: Turned 59 yesterday </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>09:49:33 10/04/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327994.html">Re: Turned 59 yesterday </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>05:01:32 10/03/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327993.html">Re: Turned 59 yesterday </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>15:28:29 10/01/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327992.html">Re: Turned 59 yesterday </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>15:28:28 10/01/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327996.html">Re: Turned 59 yesterday [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:09:02 10/07/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327982.html">Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>13:10:47 9/21/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327997.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>wkm</b> <i>04:07:10 10/08/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327990.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>16:24:17 9/25/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327988.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:35:31 9/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327983.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:08:21 9/21/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327984.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>02:28:46 9/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327985.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>02:40:09 9/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327986.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>12:17:28 9/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327989.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:47:09 9/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327987.html">Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:01:22 9/23/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327980.html">Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC? [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik Christensen</b> <i>16:03:05 9/09/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327981.html">Re: Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC? </a> - <b>Shawn</b> <i>19:20:34 9/12/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328077.html">Re: Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC? </a> - <b>Jennifer </b> <i>04:38:34 3/27/22</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327975.html">Isaac Newton</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>07:37:31 8/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327976.html">Re: Isaac Newton [PIC]</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>08:13:07 8/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327977.html">Re: Isaac Newton </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:11:01 8/24/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327971.html">42 years of long hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>16:20:30 8/21/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327974.html">Re: 42 years of long hair. </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>06:35:12 8/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327972.html">Re: 42 years of long hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:00:12 8/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327973.html">Corrected image orientation [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:02:54 8/22/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327962.html">My hair update in a long while [PIC]</a> - <b>Shawn</b> <i>15:51:10 8/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328026.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Stephan</b> <i>02:44:43 12/22/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/328018.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>03:49:38 11/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327969.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>15:43:27 8/17/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327968.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>02:28:37 8/17/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327967.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:57:42 8/15/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327966.html">Re: My hair update in a long while [PIC]</a> - <b>longhair511</b> <i>14:54:49 8/14/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327965.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>02:27:54 8/13/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327964.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>02:42:38 8/12/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327963.html">Re: My hair update in a long while </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:56:45 8/11/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327961.html">Incredibly good looking Taliban...</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:22:22 8/07/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327970.html">Re: Incredibly good looking Taliban...</a> - <b>Longhair Hippy</b> <i>15:43:33 8/17/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327954.html">Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress] [PIC]</a> - <b>Sigurd</b> <i>09:34:30 7/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327956.html">Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress] </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:26:41 7/25/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327955.html">Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress] </a> - <b>Sigurd</b> <i>09:36:08 7/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327957.html">Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress] </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:29:06 7/25/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327952.html">Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>07:40:02 7/13/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327979.html">Re: Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>16:40:47 9/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327953.html">Re: Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>16:42:36 7/15/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327951.html">Still here............ [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>09:14:35 7/09/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327959.html">Re: Still here............ </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:38:21 7/25/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327949.html">Into summer... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>02:37:28 7/07/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327958.html">Re: Into summer... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:33:34 7/25/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327945.html">Thinner hair since covid </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>18:49:36 6/30/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328066.html">Re: Thinner hair since covid </a> - <b>CTB</b> <i>15:11:44 3/01/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/327946.html">Re: Thinner hair since covid </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>12:27:52 7/01/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327942.html">Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name. </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>13:52:11 6/22/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327944.html">Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name. </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>04:08:00 6/26/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327948.html">Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name. </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>07:06:02 7/03/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327950.html">Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name. </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>02:51:21 7/09/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327936.html">Small update... it's still growing =) (3 [PIC]</a> - <b>Joao Antnes</b> <i>15:45:40 6/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327960.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>12:22:14 8/04/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327947.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>NedOz</b> <i>02:31:09 7/02/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327943.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>06:01:47 6/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327941.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:00:00 6/20/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327940.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>16:01:08 6/18/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327939.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>13:45:58 6/18/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327938.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>02:44:08 6/18/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327937.html">Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:23:58 6/17/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327929.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:27:22 6/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327931.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>17:12:39 6/14/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327930.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>19:15:44 6/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327933.html">Re: Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>10:12:14 6/16/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327932.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>10:12:08 6/16/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327935.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:04:50 6/16/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327927.html">Hair Growth Update Pic + Video Link [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>17:54:40 6/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327926.html">Long Haired Men Mistaken for women</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>08:11:34 6/06/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327934.html">Re: Long Haired Men Mistaken for women</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>10:12:19 6/16/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327922.html">9 year and 4 monts mark [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:46:40 5/26/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327924.html">Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>04:09:59 5/29/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328099.html">Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:05:18 5/28/22</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327923.html">Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>02:42:09 5/27/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327925.html">Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:24:40 6/02/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327918.html">Getting a bit longer, trying to be patient [PIC]</a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>02:48:17 4/29/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327919.html">Re: Getting a bit longer, trying to be patient </a> - <b>jlz</b> <i>03:26:27 5/21/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327914.html">Long hair men emoji now exists</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>16:25:18 4/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327912.html">Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>01:20:35 4/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327913.html">Re: Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:43:58 4/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327915.html">Re: Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>13:41:23 4/24/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327906.html">Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>Damon UK</b> <i>15:47:37 4/14/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327910.html">Re: Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>16:08:45 4/16/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327916.html">Re: Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>Damon UK</b> <i>08:02:48 4/25/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327911.html">Re: Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>20:05:02 4/16/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327907.html">Re: Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:23:03 4/14/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327909.html">Re: Lockdown Revolution</a> - <b>Damon UK</b> <i>04:27:48 4/15/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327902.html">Early spring update... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>16:35:24 4/04/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327908.html">Re: Early spring update... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:28:16 4/14/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327896.html">COVID locks update [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:34:11 3/30/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327903.html">Re: COVID locks update [PIC]</a> - <b>Cary Brock</b> <i>02:40:20 4/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327899.html">Pony from above [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:35:04 4/01/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327898.html">High pony [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:34:58 4/01/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327900.html">Re: High pony </a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>17:54:19 4/01/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327897.html">Re: COVID locks update </a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>18:08:55 3/30/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327895.html">When I became a longhair</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>09:35:53 3/29/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327893.html">Interview with Ken in SF</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>10:29:12 3/25/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327894.html">Re: Interview with Ken in SF</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>11:34:57 3/27/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327882.html">GABLOTI?</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>20:32:13 3/14/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327889.html">Re: GABLOTI?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>04:58:49 3/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327891.html">Re: GABLOTI?</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>01:28:12 3/18/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327875.html">Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>10:12:42 3/10/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328277.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Bob (I forgot my original post)</b> <i>02:52:31 5/03/23</i>
<li><a href="messages/327901.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:52:53 4/02/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327877.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:49:32 3/10/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327878.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>09:14:38 3/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327880.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:10:32 3/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327888.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>03:14:18 3/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327890.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:16:46 3/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327892.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>10:50:42 3/18/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327881.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>11:27:44 3/12/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327883.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>10:38:30 3/15/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327879.html">Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>13:34:38 3/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327884.html">Bravo !</a> - <b>Glika</b> <i>18:02:07 3/15/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327873.html">Dale Manzano</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:25:44 3/02/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327876.html">Re: Dale Manzano</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:57:29 3/10/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327865.html">Your longhair nickname</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>08:51:17 2/16/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327872.html">Re: Your longhair nickname</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>07:49:05 3/02/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327871.html">Re: Your longhair nickname</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>04:42:07 2/27/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327866.html">Re: Your longhair nickname</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:16:12 2/17/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327853.html">Growing it out after 20 years of short hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Cary Brock</b> <i>02:47:54 2/03/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327885.html">Re: Great start !</a> - <b>Glika</b> <i>18:07:47 3/15/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327917.html">Re: Great start !</a> - <b>Cary</b> <i>02:48:11 4/29/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327863.html">Re: Growing it out after 20 years of short hair </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>08:01:36 2/11/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327859.html">Re: Growing it out after 20 years of short hair </a> - <b>Cary Brock</b> <i>17:11:08 2/03/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327847.html">Brothers...it's been a long time! [PIC]</a> - <b>gman</b> <i>09:50:05 2/02/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327904.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>16:23:23 4/09/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327886.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:22:38 3/15/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327869.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>12:35:21 2/26/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327874.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>05:16:34 3/06/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327860.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:31:54 2/03/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327864.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>04:22:28 2/13/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327855.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>13:00:45 2/03/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327858.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>17:11:03 2/03/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327854.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:55:16 2/03/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327857.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>17:10:57 2/03/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327850.html">August 2020 [PIC]</a> - <b>gman</b> <i>12:57:11 2/02/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327856.html">Re: August 2020 </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>17:10:52 2/03/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327852.html">Re: August 2020 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:42:46 2/02/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327848.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>10:02:12 2/02/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327849.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>gman</b> <i>12:57:05 2/02/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327851.html">Re: Brothers...it's been a long time! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:30:55 2/02/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327833.html">9 years and 3 months (video) [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:43:42 1/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327887.html">Re: welcome back</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:38:39 3/15/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327839.html">Re: 9 years and 3 months (video) </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>20:56:22 1/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327861.html">Re: 9 years and 3 months (video) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:39:10 2/03/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327831.html">Hair Growth Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>12:27:31 1/23/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327867.html">Re: Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:36:52 2/23/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327862.html">Re: Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:54:02 2/03/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327842.html">Re: Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>06:17:57 1/27/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327845.html">Blog Post Link</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>10:10:20 1/29/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327844.html">Blog Post Link</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>10:10:10 1/29/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327846.html">Re: Blog Post Link</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>07:14:59 1/30/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327836.html">Re: Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Mogh</b> <i>14:17:46 1/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327837.html">Re: Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>15:26:27 1/24/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327822.html">Going beyond classic lenght</a> - <b>João David</b> <i>11:45:58 1/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327838.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:35:33 1/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327843.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght </a> - <b>RossRS</b> <i>17:05:46 1/28/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327825.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:05:53 1/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327828.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght</a> - <b>Mogh</b> <i>11:49:55 1/20/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327824.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght</a> - <b>Pete_J</b> <i>18:01:06 1/17/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327823.html">Re: Going beyond classic lenght</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:59:19 1/17/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327820.html">Ponytail holder</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>08:05:47 1/15/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327830.html">Re: Ponytail holder</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:06:39 1/23/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327832.html">Re: Ponytail holder</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:34:52 1/24/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327817.html">Growing Out One's Beard [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:44:42 1/14/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327905.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>16:23:28 4/09/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327868.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>12:34:03 2/26/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327821.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>00:08:07 1/17/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327826.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:49:40 1/18/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327827.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:23:41 1/18/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327819.html">Re: Growing Out One's Beard </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:47:03 1/15/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327818.html">and the hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>12:22:43 1/14/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327802.html">Does hair ever just randomly stop growing for a while?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>13:41:27 1/08/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327807.html">Re: Does hair ever just randomly stop growing for a while?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>04:48:16 1/09/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327801.html">Hair Jan 21 [PIC]</a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>02:38:41 1/08/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327870.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>12:37:25 2/26/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327835.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:55:45 1/24/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327840.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>20:58:21 1/24/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327811.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:11:33 1/12/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327841.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>20:59:09 1/24/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327805.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 [PIC]</a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>15:50:55 1/08/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327804.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 [PIC]</a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>15:50:50 1/08/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327809.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:42:12 1/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327813.html">Re: Hair Jan 21 </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:17:47 1/14/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327803.html">Beautiful</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>15:50:45 1/08/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327806.html">Re: Beautiful</a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>04:36:15 1/09/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327794.html">Starting my long hair journey [PIC]</a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:51:06 1/05/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327810.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>02:44:45 1/12/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327815.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>08:41:03 1/14/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327808.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Tony</b> <i>08:55:58 1/11/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327814.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>08:40:57 1/14/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327800.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>06:15:40 1/07/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327816.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>08:41:08 1/14/21</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327796.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>02:41:37 1/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327795.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:57:55 1/05/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327797.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Andrew</b> <i>02:41:42 1/06/21</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327799.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>07:16:56 1/06/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327798.html">Re: Starting my long hair journey </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>02:48:09 1/06/21</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327786.html">Long hair although its very thick?</a> - <b>degenvanlicht</b> <i>19:42:08 12/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327792.html">Re: Long hair although its very thick?</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>09:21:26 12/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327789.html">Re: Long hair although its very thick?</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:53:25 12/20/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327781.html">Smooth McGroove</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:04:59 12/16/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327778.html">Two year growth update ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>14:03:21 12/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327790.html">Re: Two year growth update ! </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:02:02 12/21/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327787.html">Re: Two year growth update ! </a> - <b>Mark Kingsfield</b> <i>19:42:13 12/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327785.html">Re: Two year growth update ! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:16:59 12/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327793.html">Re: Two year growth update ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>16:13:51 12/28/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327776.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>19:51:32 12/09/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327782.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:31:00 12/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327791.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:05:23 12/21/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327780.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>21:54:51 12/10/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327779.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>21:53:47 12/10/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327777.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>09:45:54 12/10/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327772.html">Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>04:57:29 12/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327788.html">Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... </a> - <b>Mark Kingsfield</b> <i>19:42:18 12/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327783.html">Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:48:06 12/17/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327773.html">Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:10:50 12/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327784.html">Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:06:16 12/19/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327762.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>23:27:15 12/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327763.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>23:28:48 12/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327774.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:19:09 12/06/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327770.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:42:26 12/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327771.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:38:45 12/05/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327768.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>17:07:30 12/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327769.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>21:27:31 12/03/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327755.html">2 year 9 month Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:38:05 11/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327775.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:24:46 12/06/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327764.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>02:48:23 12/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327765.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>16:44:53 12/03/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327761.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>23:13:45 12/02/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327760.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:02:09 12/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327766.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>16:52:46 12/03/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327757.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>04:29:02 12/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327767.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>16:56:25 12/03/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327759.html">Re: 2 year 9 month Update </a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>17:17:20 12/01/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327747.html">Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>09:32:43 11/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327812.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>02:32:22 1/14/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327754.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:35:12 11/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327752.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>09:51:49 11/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327751.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>01:33:02 11/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327750.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:23:16 11/21/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327748.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>13:37:55 11/21/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327749.html">Re: Born Longhairs</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>16:54:26 11/21/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327743.html">Long-haired Geezer's Garden... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:06:05 11/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328036.html">Re: Long-haired Geezer's Garden... [PIC]</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>11:01:20 1/17/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/327746.html">Re: Long-haired Geezer's Garden... </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>09:24:52 11/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327744.html">Another longhaired garden... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:28:01 11/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327745.html">3rd longhaired garden... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:46:42 11/18/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327737.html">Fall Colors [PIC]</a> - <b>don</b> <i>06:28:00 11/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327742.html">Re: Fall Colors </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:33:44 11/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327736.html">Avi...</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>02:51:43 11/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327738.html">Re: Avi...</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:32:29 11/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327739.html">Re: Avi...</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>02:52:59 11/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327741.html">Re: Avi...</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:04:45 11/16/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327740.html">Re: Avi...</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:04:40 11/16/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327719.html">8 years 10 months video [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>00:40:10 10/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327756.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>02:53:46 12/01/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327735.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>00:00:50 11/06/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327727.html">W O W !</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>05:50:24 11/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327731.html">Re: W O W !</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>00:34:03 11/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327732.html">PhilipZ . . . </a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>06:08:18 11/03/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327726.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>18:04:03 10/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327730.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>00:29:38 11/03/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327724.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>16:02:34 10/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327729.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>00:28:25 11/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327733.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>13:16:49 11/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327834.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:49:46 1/24/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327734.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>13:45:31 11/04/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327721.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:24:43 10/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327728.html">Re: 8 years 10 months video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>00:12:04 11/03/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327712.html">Long Hair Growth Update + Video [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>08:19:34 10/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327722.html">Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:31:38 10/31/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327716.html">Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>07:36:14 10/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327714.html">Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>11:01:56 10/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327715.html">Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>11:21:39 10/29/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327713.html">Whoops!</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>08:20:53 10/29/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327711.html">Long Hair Growth Update + Video [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>08:19:00 10/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327720.html">Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>01:08:49 10/31/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327707.html">Hair Update (3+ years) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>06:12:06 10/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327723.html">Re: Hair Update (3+ years) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:36:32 10/31/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327718.html">Re: Hair Update (3+ years) </a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>22:24:32 10/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327710.html">Re: Hair Update (3+ years) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:35:13 10/27/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327701.html">My hairstyles</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>06:46:37 10/22/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327708.html">Re: My hairstyles</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>12:48:30 10/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327717.html">Re: My hairstyles</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:04:01 10/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327709.html">Bill Choisser's, ''ON BEING A LONGHAIR'' </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:03:56 10/27/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327706.html">Re: My hairstyles</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:28:43 10/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327704.html">Re: My hairstyles</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:33:10 10/26/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327694.html">Old member stopping by [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>21:42:13 10/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327703.html">Re: Old member stopping by </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:16:55 10/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327699.html">Re: Old member stopping by </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:24:59 10/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327698.html">Re: Old member stopping by </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:18:55 10/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327695.html">Back view [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>21:44:03 10/19/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327692.html">7-year update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>05:56:01 10/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327705.html">Re: 7-year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:44:59 10/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327697.html">Re: 7-year update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:16:02 10/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327700.html">Re: 7-year update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:52:08 10/21/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327696.html">Re: 7-year update </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>22:05:37 10/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327693.html">Re: 7-year update [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>11:27:16 10/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327688.html">Text for people that tells you should cut your hair</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>07:04:46 10/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327753.html">Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:01:28 11/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327758.html">Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>12:08:12 12/01/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327725.html">Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair</a> - <b>Georges</b> <i>18:03:58 10/31/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327690.html">A long-haired Geezer's advise...</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>10:25:49 10/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327691.html">Re: A long-haired Geezer's advise...</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:58:39 10/17/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327668.html">Re-introducing myself.... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:26:11 10/14/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327687.html">Ken!</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>23:49:22 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327689.html">Re: Ken!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>09:24:33 10/16/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327679.html">Re: Re-introducing myself.... [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:32:02 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327682.html">Awesome pic, terrific hair, and gr8 abs!!... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>17:18:10 10/15/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327673.html">Re: Re-introducing myself.... </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:10:22 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327681.html">Geezers </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:53:37 10/15/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327672.html">Re: Re-introducing myself.... </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>03:10:16 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327680.html">Re: Re-introducing myself.... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:43:50 10/15/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327671.html">Another outdoor hair shot... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>20:27:47 10/14/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327676.html">Re: Another outdoor hair shot... </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:37:26 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327684.html">Re: Another outdoor hair shot... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:58:03 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327685.html">Re: Another outdoor hair shot... [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:12:28 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327686.html">Sutro Baths pic.... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:46:35 10/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327702.html">Re: Sutro Baths pic.... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>20:17:15 10/24/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327683.html">Re: Another outdoor hair shot... </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>17:27:45 10/15/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327677.html">Re: Another outdoor hair shot... </a> - <b>Darrin . . . </b> <i>11:16:05 10/15/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327652.html">1 Year Update At The Apple Tree [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>05:08:27 10/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327661.html">Re: 1 Year Update At The Apple Tree </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>01:46:11 10/13/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327654.html">Re: 1 Year Update At The Apple Tree </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>05:49:01 10/08/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327645.html">Hair growth progress---3rd time :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>12:11:33 10/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327651.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:08:22 10/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327657.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:56:20 10/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327659.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:11:24 10/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327660.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>nativecarolinian</b> <i>05:04:46 10/12/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327656.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>nativecarolinian</b> <i>05:50:18 10/09/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327648.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:57:04 10/07/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327647.html">Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :) </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:56:59 10/07/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327643.html">Be hanging by hair?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:13:22 10/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327650.html">Re: Be hanging by hair?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:08:17 10/08/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327649.html">Re: Be hanging by hair?</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:14:06 10/07/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327646.html">Re: Be hanging by hair?</a> - <b>Pete_J</b> <i>16:48:41 10/06/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327641.html">Viking and Trolleypup</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:57:48 10/05/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327665.html">Re: Viking and Trolleypup</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:00:08 10/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327669.html">Re: Viking and Trolleypup</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>08:55:54 10/14/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327675.html">Re: Viking and Trolleypup</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:35:57 10/15/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327638.html">3 Year Hair Growth Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>16:14:03 10/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327667.html">Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:24:33 10/13/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327644.html">Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:13:27 10/06/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327640.html">Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Tony</b> <i>04:56:08 10/05/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327639.html">Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:29:43 10/04/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327636.html">Alicia Siverstone's son</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:54:17 10/01/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327629.html">Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>05:49:08 9/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327653.html">Re: Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>05:08:33 10/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327655.html">Thanks Yoshiki !</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>05:50:26 10/08/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327630.html">Re: Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>15:24:00 9/30/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327610.html">Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:51:37 9/24/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327627.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:12:57 9/29/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327626.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:03:33 9/29/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327623.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>04:53:16 9/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327637.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Tim</b> <i>05:11:51 10/03/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327635.html">Todd . . . </a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>08:52:13 10/01/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327628.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Jerry</b> <i>17:18:58 9/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327632.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:19:11 9/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327633.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Jerry</b> <i>03:26:05 10/01/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327614.html">Re: Considering shorter long hair length </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:32 9/26/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327601.html">Conditioning between two shampoo?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:41:08 9/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327603.html">Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:58:12 9/21/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327604.html">Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:19:01 9/22/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327605.html">Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:33:14 9/23/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327612.html">I agree with Darrin (no text)</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:21 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327609.html">Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>02:46:09 9/24/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327594.html">My hairstyles video</a> - <b>Gabriel</b> <i>03:30:06 9/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327595.html">Re: My hairstyles video</a> - <b>longhair511</b> <i>16:51:38 9/03/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327588.html">New member [PIC]</a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:21:28 8/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327613.html">Welcome! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:27 9/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327624.html">Re: Welcome! </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>03:20:39 9/29/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327593.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:50:22 8/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327596.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:48:10 9/05/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327597.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:22:53 9/08/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327591.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>12:37:06 8/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327592.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>05:27:10 8/29/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327589.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>11:07:24 8/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327590.html">Re: New member </a> - <b>Jesus Forain</b> <i>17:42:06 8/26/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327574.html">Long time no update</a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>04:41:06 8/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327615.html">Re: Long time no update</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:37 9/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327663.html">Re: Long time no update</a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>19:09:19 10/13/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327578.html">Re: Long time no update</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:27:59 8/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327581.html">Re: Long time no update</a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>03:25:11 8/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327576.html">Re: Long time no update [PIC]</a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>17:37:58 8/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328246.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Ryan </b> <i>17:10:38 12/20/22</i>
<li><a href="messages/327598.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:58:46 9/14/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327664.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Matt T</b> <i>19:11:44 10/13/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327586.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:05:18 8/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327587.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>23:47:47 8/20/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327580.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Mogh</b> <i>13:12:56 8/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327582.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:25:18 8/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327579.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:37:51 8/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327583.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:25:24 8/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327577.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>07:17:58 8/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327584.html">Re: Long time no update </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:25:30 8/18/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327573.html">Went bald. </a> - <b>Old member from 2007</b> <i>16:24:39 8/15/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327616.html">Re: Went bald. </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:42 9/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327662.html">Re: Went bald. </a> - <b>CTB</b> <i>16:44:47 10/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327666.html">Rogaine </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>23:16:11 10/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327670.html">Re: Rogaine </a> - <b>CTB</b> <i>16:32:49 10/14/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327607.html">Re: Went bald. </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>02:45:58 9/24/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327599.html">Re: Went bald. </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:58:51 9/14/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327571.html">Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>RJM</b> <i>18:04:37 8/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327617.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:48 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327608.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>02:46:04 9/24/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327600.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:56:27 9/15/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327585.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:14:28 8/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327634.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:36:20 10/01/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327575.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>09:43:07 8/16/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327572.html">Re: Long hair and jobs</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>20:53:00 8/14/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327568.html">9 Month progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Gabriel</b> <i>16:16:07 8/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327570.html">Re: 9 Month progress </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:25:12 8/11/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327566.html">2 year progress check [PIC]</a> - <b>Stephan</b> <i>03:25:08 8/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327625.html">Re: 2 year progress check </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:29:36 9/29/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327618.html">Looks TERRIFIC!!! (no text) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:53 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327569.html">Re: 2 year progress check </a> - <b>James </b> <i>03:25:06 8/11/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327567.html">VERY nice !</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>05:51:02 8/10/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327556.html">4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>03:09:03 7/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327674.html">Re: 4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:39:42 10/15/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327619.html">If a relationship is new....</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:47:58 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327602.html">Re: 4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>04:09:29 9/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327563.html">Re: 4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:06:57 8/02/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327558.html">Re: 4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>Steve </b> <i>12:49:34 7/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327562.html">Re: 4 Years into my Journey</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:54:43 8/01/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327554.html">Finally at my goal length [PIC]</a> - <b>BG</b> <i>17:17:19 7/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327620.html">Looks AWESOME!! (no text) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:48:03 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327564.html">Re: Finally at my goal length </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>18:16:35 8/04/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327557.html">Hey Thair</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>06:59:53 7/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327559.html">Re: Hey Thair</a> - <b>BG</b> <i>14:36:25 7/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327561.html">Dear BG . . . .</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>16:50:44 7/31/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327555.html">Re: Finally at my goal length </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:30:53 7/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327560.html">Re: Finally at my goal length </a> - <b>BG</b> <i>14:36:30 7/31/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327547.html">Birthday Yeard and Mane [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>02:33:02 7/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327621.html">Re: Birthday Yeard and Mane </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:48:09 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327549.html">Re: Birthday Yeard and Mane </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>23:51:06 7/19/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327545.html">Hair length update19 months from a buzz [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>04:56:54 7/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327622.html">Nice!!! (no text) </a> - <b>Ken in Sf</b> <i>04:48:14 9/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327546.html">Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:02:30 7/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327548.html">Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>03:21:00 7/19/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327642.html">Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:50:29 10/05/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327544.html">Dual Survival</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:26:41 7/09/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327539.html">Looking for a hair female hair partner. [PIC]</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>03:15:08 6/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327551.html">Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner. </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>11:08:15 7/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327552.html">Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner. </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>08:21:14 7/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327565.html">Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner. </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>18:16:41 8/04/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327541.html">Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner. </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>15:22:44 7/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327542.html">Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner. </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>16:28:35 7/01/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327528.html">at the office [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>13:11:29 6/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327535.html">Re: at the office </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:56:04 6/28/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327550.html">Darrin . . .</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>06:43:19 7/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327537.html">Re: at the office </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>16:13:16 6/28/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327529.html">Re: at the office </a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>22:00:38 6/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327538.html">Re: at the office </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>16:15:28 6/28/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327540.html">Re: at the office </a> - <b>Lpng hair in Albany</b> <i>08:24:05 6/29/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327525.html">Straight Long Hair Dating Sites</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>13:46:49 6/22/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327526.html">Re: Straight Long Hair Dating Sites</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:50:37 6/22/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327534.html">Re: Straight Long Hair Dating Sites</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>08:09:34 6/28/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327515.html">Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>04:36:31 6/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327553.html">Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update</a> - <b>BG</b> <i>17:17:14 7/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327543.html">Erik is WOW !</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>08:56:06 7/08/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327519.html">Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>09:35:30 6/21/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327530.html">Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>19:57:47 6/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327531.html">Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>19:59:32 6/27/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327516.html">Welcome</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>04:41:04 6/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327517.html">Re: Welcome [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>10:55:04 6/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327524.html">Re: Welcome </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>00:46:14 6/22/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327522.html">Re: Welcome </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>14:23:41 6/21/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327518.html">Re: Welcome </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:03:35 6/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327520.html">Re: Welcome </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>12:42:13 6/21/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327521.html">Re: Welcome </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>12:55:17 6/21/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327513.html">Absolom's post</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>09:54:23 6/09/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327509.html">Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair</a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>22:46:42 6/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327511.html">Re: Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:11:37 6/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327512.html">Re: Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair</a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>15:43:52 6/08/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327510.html">Scott !</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>04:30:45 6/08/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327508.html">Trimming with blunt scissors</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>10:57:30 6/04/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327502.html">Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>03:44:24 5/30/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327536.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>13:09:01 6/28/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327523.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>14:39:36 6/21/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327507.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Mxt</b> <i>13:42:33 6/01/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327503.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>08:28:24 5/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327504.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>10:49:52 5/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327506.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>19:10:23 5/31/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327505.html">Re: Split ends- what do I do?</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:16:32 5/31/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327500.html">1st time poster 3 years 8 months, yes! [PIC]</a> - <b>DownTheShore</b> <i>07:12:47 5/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327533.html">Re: 1st time poster 3 years 8 months, yes! </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>08:03:41 6/28/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327499.html">Hair growth progress ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>03:28:05 5/26/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327532.html">Re: Hair growth progress ! </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>07:49:06 6/28/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327490.html">Back after nearly 20 years</a> - <b>ExLongHair</b> <i>03:42:43 5/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327501.html">Re: Back after nearly 20 years</a> - <b>CTB</b> <i>08:26:59 5/29/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327496.html">Re: Back after nearly 20 years</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:55:06 5/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327494.html">Re: Back after nearly 20 years</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>00:00:12 5/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327476.html">Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>01:06:47 5/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327483.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:39:32 5/12/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327489.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:59:26 5/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327658.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:59:28 10/11/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327482.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:25:42 5/12/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327488.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:58:43 5/16/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327481.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:15:38 5/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327487.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:58:14 5/16/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327491.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:57:54 5/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327492.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>13:45:44 5/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327493.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:41:42 5/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327497.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:35:29 5/18/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327479.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>07:36:31 5/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327606.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:23:46 9/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327486.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:56:34 5/16/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327480.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>13:30:48 5/11/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327478.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>07:18:15 5/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327485.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:54:44 5/16/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327477.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>05:08:36 5/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327484.html">Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:53:41 5/16/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327470.html">Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>15:11:07 5/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327475.html">Re: Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>04:53:37 5/09/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327471.html">Re: Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>15:15:41 5/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327472.html">Re: Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:27:29 5/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327473.html">Re: Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>21:35:27 5/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327474.html">Re: Haircuts and COVID 19</a> - <b>H</b> <i>03:39:36 5/05/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327468.html">Garnier Fructis</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>05:24:17 4/29/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327463.html">Jerry Oliver - model</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:48:41 4/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327527.html">Made in Chelsea</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>12:21:20 6/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327514.html">Re: Jerry Oliver - model</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>19:01:57 6/16/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327465.html">Thanks for shairing !</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>07:33:40 4/26/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327464.html">Re: Jerry Oliver - model</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:08:04 4/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327467.html">Todd . . . .</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>09:15:54 4/27/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327462.html">Luke Eisner</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>18:27:24 4/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327461.html">How To Get a 90's Metal Hairstyle With Robby Metal</a> - <b>Robrom</b> <i>04:16:30 4/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327455.html">COVID 19</a> - <b>Lpng hair in Albany</b> <i>05:03:15 4/14/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327457.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>03:38:59 4/15/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327456.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:58:24 4/14/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327442.html">COVID 19</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:12:03 4/05/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327454.html">Re: Essential Worker </a> - <b>Glikna</b> <i>16:58:17 4/11/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327452.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>07:15:18 4/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327453.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:52:44 4/11/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327450.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>16:40:16 4/08/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327448.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:12:10 4/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327451.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:05:45 4/09/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327446.html">Re: COVID 19</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>03:20:03 4/07/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327443.html">you betcha'</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:23:34 4/05/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327437.html">Trevor Lawrence</a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>11:23:00 4/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327439.html">Re: Trevor Lawrence</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>16:14:23 4/03/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327440.html">Re: Trevor Lawrence</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:34:36 4/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327444.html">Trevor </a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>10:25:16 4/05/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327427.html">French braids? [PIC]</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>00:56:06 4/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327431.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:38:45 4/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327433.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:16:59 4/02/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327430.html">Re: French braids? [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:55:36 4/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327434.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:17:30 4/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327438.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:24:02 4/03/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327429.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:42:40 4/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327435.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:18:11 4/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327441.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:40:26 4/04/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327466.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>11:19:14 4/26/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327428.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:17:44 4/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327436.html">Re: French braids? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:19:12 4/02/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327425.html">1year update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>08:44:44 3/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327459.html">Re: 1year update </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>05:08:42 4/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327498.html">Re: dyed hair</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>08:09:07 5/21/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327424.html">Nape Hair</a> - <b>milkister</b> <i>08:44:39 3/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327426.html">Re: Nape Hair</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>10:02:21 3/31/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327423.html">Still working at it... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>03:02:03 3/29/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327458.html">Re: Still working at it... </a> - <b>Georges</b> <i>16:04:14 4/17/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327421.html">When I was not folically challenged [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:44:09 3/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327447.html">Re: When I was not folically challenged </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>03:20:09 4/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327449.html">Re: When I was not folically challenged </a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>16:19:20 4/07/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327432.html">Re: When I was not folically challenged [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>19:09:33 4/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327469.html">May progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>08:58:30 5/04/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327420.html">Sideways Pics</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:41:40 3/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327419.html">March [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:13:14 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327418.html">February [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:13:09 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327417.html">January [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:13:04 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327416.html">January [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:12:59 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327415.html">December [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:12:54 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327414.html">November [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:12:49 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327413.html">More progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:12:44 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327412.html">More progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball </b> <i>09:12:39 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327411.html">Follically challenged hair growth attempt. [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball </b> <i>09:12:33 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327410.html">Folically challenged hair growth attempt [PIC]</a> - <b>Runningball</b> <i>09:12:28 3/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327405.html">Still here [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>11:20:28 3/13/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327409.html">Re: Still here </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:59:03 3/14/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327408.html">Still there </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>07:29:25 3/14/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327407.html">Re: Still here [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>04:44:49 3/14/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327406.html">Re: Still here [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:52:40 3/13/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327390.html">2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>08:07:06 3/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327400.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:49:08 3/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327403.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:31:22 3/10/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327392.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>06:06:19 3/09/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327397.html">photos OK</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:18:39 3/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327399.html">Re: photos OK</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>11:27:49 3/10/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327395.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:36:33 3/09/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327393.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:10:31 3/09/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327396.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>01:31:50 3/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327402.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:29:09 3/10/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327391.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>16:09:22 3/08/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327394.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:10:36 3/09/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327398.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:49:40 3/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327401.html">Re: 2 year update :)</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:28:28 3/10/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327379.html">Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>05:59:56 2/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327611.html">Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:51:43 9/24/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327383.html">Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:38:03 2/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327380.html">Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:31:29 2/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327384.html">Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>16:38:08 2/23/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327386.html">Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?</a> - <b>LongHairedSfFan</b> <i>09:34:09 2/24/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327385.html">Of course Ive heard of him.</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>05:18:17 2/24/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327422.html">Speaking of...</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>12:11:48 3/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327387.html">Re: Of course Ive heard of him.</a> - <b>LongHairedSfFan</b> <i>09:36:04 2/24/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327388.html">My worries</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>10:15:32 2/24/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327389.html">Re: My worries</a> - <b>LongHairedSfFan</b> <i>16:43:25 2/24/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327377.html">Hair journey for 3rd time :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:46:30 2/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327382.html">Re: Hair journey for 3rd time :) </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:29:53 2/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327381.html">Re: Hair journey for 3rd time :) </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>09:24:08 2/23/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327378.html">3rd time is a charm...</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>05:56:39 2/19/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327370.html">INCREDIBLE HAIR</a> - <b>SAM</b> <i>09:16:21 2/02/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327374.html">Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:27:17 2/07/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327372.html">Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>07:56:35 2/03/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327371.html">Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>22:41:27 2/02/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327369.html">Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care? </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>05:32:56 2/01/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327373.html">Re: Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care? </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:22:42 2/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327376.html">Re: Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care? </a> - <b>zenpaul</b> <i>03:34:15 2/12/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327365.html">Petition to end hair discrimination</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>14:59:56 1/27/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327375.html">Re: Petition to end hair discrimination</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:51:12 2/08/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327364.html">Please update my location in Member's directory</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>05:55:29 1/27/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327362.html">Hair Freaky Long Hair - Facebook Page</a> - <b>UVALee</b> <i>22:51:34 1/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327363.html">Re: Hair Freaky Long Hair - Facebook Page</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>01:12:25 1/26/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327354.html">My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. [PIC]</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>03:35:13 1/24/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327358.html">Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:26:06 1/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327359.html">Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>17:02:44 1/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327366.html">Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>02:33:04 1/31/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327368.html">Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>06:03:44 1/31/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327356.html">Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>06:48:46 1/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327357.html">Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>11:10:57 1/25/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327361.html">Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:42:00 1/25/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327334.html">Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>João David</b> <i>18:06:38 1/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327460.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Weston</b> <i>15:13:42 4/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327355.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Georges</b> <i>18:33:15 1/24/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327351.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>17:29:28 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327347.html">Re: Little Bird Long Hair!</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>14:04:00 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327346.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:04:04 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327345.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:39:04 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327344.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>03:33:00 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327343.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:53:51 1/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327342.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>16:31:36 1/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327341.html">Oh wow, indeed</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:37:51 1/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327339.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:56:55 1/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327338.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>06:36:21 1/19/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327337.html">Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:41:38 1/19/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327329.html">100 Months - Video [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:00:32 1/17/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327631.html">Re: 100 Months - Video </a> - <b>Paul </b> <i>17:19:06 9/30/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327335.html">Re: 100 Months - Video </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>22:10:19 1/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327332.html">Re: 100 Months - Video </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:15:07 1/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327330.html">Re: 100 Months - Video </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:18:10 1/18/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327321.html">Long Hair and Me [PIC]</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>18:30:08 1/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327495.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>longhairedone</b> <i>03:19:36 5/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327360.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>18:21:10 1/25/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327349.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:31:09 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327336.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>22:13:38 1/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327331.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:23:28 1/18/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327340.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>08:21:22 1/19/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327322.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>02:30:26 1/12/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327324.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>05:23:37 1/12/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327367.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:32:50 1/31/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327325.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>12:03:44 1/12/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327323.html">Re: Long Hair and Me </a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>05:23:32 1/12/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327318.html">Happy New Year [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:35:38 1/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327404.html">Re: Happy New Year </a> - <b>James</b> <i>11:16:49 3/13/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327328.html">Re: HNY :-) !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>20:16:26 1/13/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327312.html">2020! [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>05:39:45 1/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327348.html">Re: 2020! </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:20:56 1/20/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327327.html">Re: 2020! </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>20:11:50 1/13/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327320.html">Re: 2020! </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:43:54 1/11/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327315.html">Re: 2020! </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>09:31:44 1/11/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327313.html">Re: 2020! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:45:34 1/11/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327295.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:53:14 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327350.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>17:08:40 1/20/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327353.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>04:41:17 1/22/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327319.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:40:46 1/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327326.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:32:54 1/13/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327309.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>13:43:08 1/09/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327310.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:27:08 1/10/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327300.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>13:11:46 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327302.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:50:54 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327303.html">Photo as my hair is now. [PIC]</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>02:35:51 1/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327304.html">Re: Photo as my hair is now. </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:10:20 1/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327305.html">Re: Photo as my hair is now. </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>06:35:33 1/07/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327297.html">Family [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:54:49 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327311.html">Family update</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:55:30 1/10/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327316.html">Re: Family update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:40:15 1/11/20</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327299.html">Re: Family Recent [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:43:26 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327307.html">Re: Family Recent </a> - <b>A,D.</b> <i>14:21:28 1/07/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327308.html">Re: Family Recent </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:53:10 1/08/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327296.html">Front View [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:53:59 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327314.html">Re: Front View </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:51:59 1/11/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327317.html">Re: Front View </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:41:47 1/11/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327294.html">Yearly Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A,D.</b> <i>21:08:37 1/05/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327298.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:57:12 1/06/20</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327306.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>A,D.</b> <i>14:08:47 1/07/20</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327291.html">Master Hector Ramos</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>08:53:14 12/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327333.html">Re: Master Hector Ramos</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>16:23:26 1/18/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327292.html">Re: Master Hector Ramos</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:19:48 12/31/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327287.html">Kenny Leckremo</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>14:03:14 12/26/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327288.html">Re: Kenny Leckremo</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>19:31:18 12/28/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327285.html">MERRY CHRISTMAS [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:50:27 12/25/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327293.html">Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:53:14 1/03/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327290.html">Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>12:51:09 12/30/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327289.html">Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:43:45 12/28/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327286.html">Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:33:56 12/26/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327282.html">Danny Cecati is back</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:53:05 12/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327283.html">Re: Danny Cecati is back</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>19:30:40 12/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327284.html">Follow Up after some Research</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>21:05:11 12/23/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327274.html">Longhair Guy in Promotional Video</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>02:57:41 12/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327279.html">Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:46:46 12/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327280.html">Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:53:11 12/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327281.html">Wow, an actor with really long hair !</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>09:52:42 12/09/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327277.html">Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>08:57:50 12/06/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327275.html">Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:15:01 12/06/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327273.html">HairForce Kalender 2020</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>05:40:37 12/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327276.html">Re: HairForce Kalender 2020</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:19:00 12/06/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327268.html">Just another pic of my hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Crim</b> <i>09:58:11 12/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327270.html">Re: Just another pic of my hair </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>03:34:20 12/02/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327267.html">Over conditioning?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>14:13:01 11/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327271.html">Just moisturize the hair </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:22:09 12/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327278.html">Re: Just moisturize the hair </a> - <b>zenpriest</b> <i>04:53:40 12/07/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327263.html">I'd like this as my new profile pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>05:28:53 11/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327445.html">Re: I'd like this as my new profile pic </a> - <b>Vino</b> <i>16:37:26 4/05/20</i>
<li><a href="messages/327266.html">new profile pic </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:14:14 11/24/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327265.html">Re: I'd like this as my new profile pic </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:33:43 11/24/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327260.html">Elliott Joseph</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>03:52:59 11/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327255.html">2 Year Update At The Apple Tree [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>19:58:38 10/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327258.html">Looking good !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>08:29:12 10/27/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327256.html">Re: 2 Year Update At The Apple Tree Front View [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>20:04:26 10/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327257.html">Re: 2 Year Update At The Apple Tree Front View </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:09:48 10/25/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327252.html">Hasan Demir</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>08:04:07 10/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327259.html">Long hair guys on a popular app?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>11:39:49 10/27/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327248.html">Breakage at the bangs? [PIC]</a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>09:12:13 10/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327251.html">Re: Breakage at the bangs? [PIC]</a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>03:27:56 10/18/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327246.html">Finally, a contest for men with long hair!</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>19:05:55 10/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327247.html">Additional information</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>19:12:00 10/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327249.html">Re: Additional information</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>13:53:34 10/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327250.html">Indeed</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>17:06:30 10/13/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327243.html">Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>09:34:48 10/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327254.html">Follow Up Information</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>12:30:36 10/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327245.html">Re: Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>13:48:29 10/11/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327244.html">Re: Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:10:19 10/11/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327241.html">Rebearding... [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>04:19:04 10/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327253.html">Re: Rebearding... </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>22:27:52 10/20/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327238.html">Ankle length</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>14:09:16 10/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327242.html">Re: Ankle length</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>15:36:08 10/09/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327240.html">Re: Ankle length</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>23:10:57 10/08/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327222.html">How has having long hair affected your dating life? [PIC]</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>05:01:17 10/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327235.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>06:11:42 10/08/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327232.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>12:17:47 10/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327239.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:49:11 10/08/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327228.html">What I did when I was 18</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:15:29 10/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327230.html">Re: What I did when I was 18</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>09:44:35 10/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327233.html">Re: What I did when I was 18</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>12:59:55 10/07/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327226.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:16:35 10/06/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327224.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>11:52:54 10/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327225.html">Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life? </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:42:04 10/06/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327221.html">Locks of Love</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:39:51 10/05/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327231.html">Re: Locks of Love</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>12:17:42 10/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/328016.html">Re: Locks of Love</a> - <b>Long hair in Albany</b> <i>15:37:12 11/03/21</i>
<li><a href="messages/327234.html">Re: Locks of Love</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:11:30 10/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327237.html">Re: Locks of Love</a> - <b>Cameron </b> <i>10:03:37 10/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327262.html">Re: Locks of Love</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:46:26 11/09/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327215.html">8 months of hair growth [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>12:28:37 10/03/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327207.html">Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:10:17 9/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327219.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Jack</b> <i>08:34:45 10/05/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327213.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>08:14:51 10/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327216.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:20:44 10/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327209.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>06:25:14 10/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327211.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>06:26:07 10/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327217.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>08:34:34 10/05/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327223.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>05:01:23 10/06/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327214.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>08:14:57 10/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327220.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>08:34:50 10/05/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327212.html">Kempt is the word of the day</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:22:29 10/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327208.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair</a> - <b>John</b> <i>11:13:23 9/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327210.html">Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>06:26:02 10/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327204.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>12:32:34 9/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327205.html">update...yeah </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:37:31 9/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327206.html">Re: update...yeah </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>12:01:59 9/29/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327203.html">Remember when Maury hated long hair?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>01:31:15 9/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327264.html">It's not really forced if they wanted it.</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>05:28:58 11/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327269.html">Re: It's not really forced if they wanted it.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:19:39 12/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327227.html">Re: Remember when Maury hated long hair?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:31:16 10/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327229.html">I see your point.</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>09:34:37 10/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327236.html">Re: I see your point.</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:58:00 10/08/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327200.html">Bohemian headdress for guys [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>08:27:10 9/25/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327196.html">Recent Pic [PIC]</a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>14:33:05 9/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327195.html">3rd time charm, minoxidil + onion juice</a> - <b>katana</b> <i>06:18:12 9/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327186.html">Hello again longhairs! [PIC]</a> - <b>kubanpanzer</b> <i>03:07:02 9/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327189.html">Re: Hello again longhairs! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:48:01 9/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327193.html">Re: Hello again longhairs! </a> - <b>kubanpanzer</b> <i>17:37:24 9/19/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327179.html">Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:51:28 9/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327197.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>14:33:11 9/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327194.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>kubanpanzer</b> <i>03:09:06 9/20/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327192.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>09:26:51 9/18/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327188.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>12:01:13 9/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327187.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>03:07:08 9/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327181.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:26:30 9/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327183.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:14:12 9/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327184.html">Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress</a> - <b>Cameron </b> <i>14:49:26 9/16/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327172.html">So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>04:35:45 9/14/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327190.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:05:40 9/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327182.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:51:46 9/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327185.html">No fair!</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>20:20:13 9/16/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327177.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream. [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:09:46 9/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327176.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:50:48 9/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327174.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>14:11:33 9/14/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327175.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>16:46:51 9/14/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327173.html">Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:05:03 9/14/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327171.html">Just straightened my hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Edmond</b> <i>03:16:26 9/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327191.html">Re: Just straightened my hair </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:09:10 9/17/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327168.html">Wheres the beyond knee length hair?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>00:59:34 9/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327169.html">Re: Wheres the beyond knee length hair?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>01:04:31 9/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327170.html">Re: Wheres the beyond knee length hair?</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:43:02 9/11/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327167.html">Lawyer [PIC]</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:06:15 9/03/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327166.html">Lawyer [PIC]</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:06:13 9/03/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327161.html">been growing for a few years [PIC]</a> - <b>Crim</b> <i>19:45:02 8/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327272.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>Long Hair Boy</b> <i>03:30:32 12/04/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327180.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>16:54:02 9/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327178.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:13:09 9/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327165.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:29:54 9/03/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327164.html">Youre an Inspiration!</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:25:05 9/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327163.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>longhair511</b> <i>16:53:00 9/01/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327162.html">Re: been growing for a few years </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:58:03 8/31/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327146.html">Head wrap</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:22:19 8/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327160.html">Wearing hats doesn't cause baldness</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:20:43 8/20/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327154.html">Re: Head wrap</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>09:27:46 8/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327156.html">Re: Head wrap</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>09:13:27 8/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327157.html">Re: Head wrap</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>10:24:51 8/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327159.html">Just being practical</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>12:14:39 8/19/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327142.html">Hit the 8 Year Mark [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:06:49 8/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327158.html">Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>14:50:27 8/16/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327150.html">Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>11:29:10 8/12/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327148.html">Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>11:29:00 8/12/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327145.html">Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:02:50 8/10/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327144.html">Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>14:34:07 8/09/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327143.html">lookin' good !</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:39:06 8/09/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327136.html">7 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:25:42 8/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327140.html">Re: 7 month update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>11:39:51 8/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327149.html">Re: Thanks !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>11:29:05 8/12/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327139.html">Re: 7 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:31:27 8/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327147.html">Re: 7 month update </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:54:06 8/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327155.html">Re: 7 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:00:57 8/13/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327138.html">Re: 7 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:28:36 8/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327137.html">Re: 7 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:27:35 8/07/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327134.html">any HAMMERFALL fans here? </a> - <b>Clint</b> <i>10:31:16 8/06/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327132.html">Why? </a> - <b>Clint</b> <i>11:49:57 8/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327135.html">Re: Why? </a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>15:45:10 8/07/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327141.html">Re: Why? </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>06:13:12 8/09/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327133.html">Re: Why? </a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>19:47:47 8/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327131.html">Making it bushy?</a> - <b>Wildman</b> <i>11:49:52 8/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327153.html">Re: Dont see why not ?</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:18:54 8/12/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327151.html">Re: Dont see why not ?</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:17:31 8/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327152.html">Re: Dont see why not ?</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:18:39 8/12/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327122.html">Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>Clint</b> <i>06:04:12 7/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327128.html">Re: Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:20:34 8/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327129.html">Re: Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>Tom</b> <i>17:26:32 8/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327124.html">Re: Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>02:44:24 8/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327127.html">Re: Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>DannyT</b> <i>09:51:00 8/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327130.html">Who?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>18:06:34 8/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327126.html">Re: Long Haired Rock Band!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:33:48 8/01/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327102.html">male rapunzel [PIC]</a> - <b>Danny</b> <i>12:38:21 7/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327198.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>14:33:16 9/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327114.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>Daniil Kvyat</b> <i>12:55:32 7/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327115.html">What do you mean, no?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>17:52:41 7/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327119.html">Re: What do you mean, no?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:49:08 7/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327121.html">Re: What do you mean, no?</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:46:01 7/30/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327120.html">Alright then</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>18:01:27 7/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327123.html">Re: Alright then</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>06:04:17 7/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327125.html">I see your point.</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>02:47:31 8/01/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327113.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>12:29:16 7/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327116.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:59:07 7/29/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327111.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>07:14:07 7/24/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327108.html">Re: male rapunzel </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>08:28:42 7/23/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327104.html">Germans love long hair! Right?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>13:33:01 7/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327105.html">Re: Germans love long hair! Right?</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:07:30 7/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327106.html">Fair enough.</a> - <b>Jacob Urnosky</b> <i>18:53:21 7/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327107.html">Oops. I accidentally spelled out the U in my alias!</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>20:33:43 7/22/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327103.html">Germans love long hair! Right?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>13:32:59 7/22/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327098.html">Hair up for 1st time nearly all day in over a year</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>03:19:27 7/19/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327096.html">Weird question</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>18:49:51 7/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327118.html">Re: Weird question</a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>21:40:00 7/29/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327097.html">Re: Weird question</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:14:16 7/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327100.html">Re: Weird question</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>11:58:33 7/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327099.html">Dry damaged hair?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:46:22 7/19/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327101.html">Re: Dry damaged hair?</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>11:58:38 7/21/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327109.html">oil + hair rinses</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>12:36:05 7/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327110.html">DIY deep conditioner</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:33:08 7/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327112.html">Re: DIY deep conditioner</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>19:34:06 7/25/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327093.html">Encounter with Long Haired Men</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>17:39:37 7/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327094.html">Re: Encounter with Long Haired Men</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>03:04:37 7/17/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327090.html">Thinking of growing longer</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>19:20:01 7/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327095.html">Don't Think....</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>05:44:55 7/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327092.html">Re: Thinking of growing longer</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>03:03:06 7/16/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327091.html">Enjoy!</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>23:05:29 7/15/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327086.html">Still Alvie and well! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:01:24 7/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327117.html">Re: Still Alvie and well! </a> - <b>Abaslom</b> <i>21:33:07 7/29/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327088.html">Re: Still Alvie and well! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:21:04 7/11/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327087.html">Re: Still Alvie and well! [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:30:08 7/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327089.html">Re: Still Alvie and well! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:23:18 7/11/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327083.html">No man has broken the hair world record?!</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>00:13:03 7/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327084.html">Re: No man has broken the hair world record?!</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>12:31:43 7/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327085.html">Who was this guy?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>13:43:41 7/09/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327076.html">Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>19:11:58 6/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327078.html">Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do... </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>03:40:39 7/01/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327077.html">Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>19:27:31 6/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327218.html">Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do... </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>08:34:39 10/05/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327075.html">DIY coconut milk deep conditioner</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:04:38 6/30/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327072.html">A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>tommmm</b> <i>18:13:26 6/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327199.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse? [PIC]</a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>14:33:21 9/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327082.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>16:08:58 7/05/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327074.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:57:24 6/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327079.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>native carolinian</b> <i>13:00:26 7/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327080.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>04:06:56 7/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327081.html">Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:18:29 7/05/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327069.html">Swamp Gypsy once more...</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:42:38 6/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327070.html">Re: Swamp Gypsy once more... [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>03:45:21 6/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327071.html">Re: Swamp Gypsy once more... [PIC]</a> - <b>DannyT</b> <i>18:13:21 6/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327073.html">Re: Swamp Gypsy once more... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:28:27 6/29/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327060.html">Hours of eye candy</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>15:36:11 6/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327066.html">Re: Hours of eye candy</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>18:50:24 6/19/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327055.html">Baron Misuraca</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>11:38:59 6/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327056.html">Re: Baron Misuraca</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:41:06 6/04/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327050.html">Meet the real-life male Rapunzel ! </a> - <b>DannyT</b> <i>10:42:24 5/26/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327054.html">Youtube Channel and Instagram</a> - <b>FruitMan</b> <i>09:30:02 5/30/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327053.html">His hair is too short</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>08:14:02 5/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327065.html">Re: His hair is too short</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>17:14:56 6/19/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327052.html">Re: Meet the real-life male Rapunzel ! </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:22:47 5/26/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327051.html">Re: Meet the real-life male Rapunzel ! </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:33:32 5/26/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327048.html">Six months in</a> - <b>mrzen</b> <i>09:18:33 5/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327063.html">Re: Six months in</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:18:55 6/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327049.html">Re: Six months in</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>14:01:24 5/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327057.html">Re: Six months in</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:19:28 6/07/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327046.html">How to feed curls</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:33:38 5/20/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327044.html">Does anyone know what happened to...</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>03:05:25 5/16/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327042.html">Hiar caught in Machinery</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:14:00 5/14/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327045.html">Re: Hiar caught in Machinery</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:54:08 5/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327047.html">Re: Hiar caught in Machinery</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>06:24:46 5/21/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327034.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:43:42 5/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327039.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:10:21 5/13/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327036.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:32:53 5/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327040.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:15:43 5/13/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327037.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:45:47 5/12/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327032.html">I REALLYwant long hair</a> - <b>Ricardo</b> <i>05:50:33 5/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327043.html">Patience Grasshopper </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>20:12:02 5/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327038.html">Distract people</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>12:00:33 5/13/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327035.html">Re: I REALLYwant long hair</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>14:10:09 5/12/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327033.html">Re: I REALLYwant long hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:11:47 5/11/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327030.html">leave in hair something</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:44:07 5/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327058.html">Re: leave in hair something</a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>03:29:33 6/10/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327031.html">I deem you flaxseed juice :)</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:12:21 5/09/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327029.html">What kind of brush is this? [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:16:00 5/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327022.html">Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:35:33 4/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327028.html">Re: Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:47:56 4/29/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327025.html">Hair extensions? [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:14:58 4/29/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327026.html">Philadelphia</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:40:12 4/29/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327024.html">Re: Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>05:31:31 4/28/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327023.html">Im concerned too.</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>05:31:26 4/28/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327020.html">2 years [PIC]</a> - <b>DannyT</b> <i>10:23:16 4/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327027.html">Welcome !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:24:24 4/29/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327017.html">11 years ago [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:43:09 4/21/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327021.html">Re: 11 years ago </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:28:31 4/23/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327006.html">Starting another Long Hair Journey [PIC]</a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>20:11:21 4/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327013.html">Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>04:47:34 4/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327015.html">Hey Ho .....Lets Go !</a> - <b>Glinka </b> <i>18:18:47 4/21/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327012.html">Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:12:13 4/19/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327016.html"> I dont care what ya think no mo +#127932;</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:30:06 4/21/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/327009.html">Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey </a> - <b>longhair511</b> <i>19:30:40 4/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327014.html">Beard </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:12:50 4/21/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327018.html">Re: Beard </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:32:27 4/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327019.html">Re: Beard </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>02:56:35 4/23/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326999.html">My Daughters Wedding [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>23:54:21 4/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327041.html">Re: My Daughters Wedding </a> - <b>GerryBrady</b> <i>03:03:07 5/14/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327011.html">Re: My Daughters Wedding </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:44:08 4/19/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327005.html">Congrats !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:57:19 4/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327004.html">Congrats !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>19:51:44 4/15/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327002.html">Re: My Daughters Wedding </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:43:41 4/14/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327001.html">Re: My Daughters Wedding [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>23:56:04 4/13/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/327000.html">Re: My Daughters Wedding [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>23:55:33 4/13/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326994.html">Where are the videos?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>03:43:47 4/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327003.html">Re: Where are the videos?</a> - <b>DannyT</b> <i>09:52:10 4/15/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326991.html">No hats [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:51:26 4/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326997.html">Re: No hats </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:59:59 4/08/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326995.html">Re: No hats </a> - <b>Glunka</b> <i>18:09:03 4/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326992.html">Re: No hats </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>02:25:43 4/05/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326990.html">Family Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:49:01 4/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326996.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>18:12:47 4/07/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326988.html">7 year old with long hair</a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:09:14 4/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326993.html">Re: 7 year old with long hair</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>03:43:40 4/06/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326976.html">How fast do split ends really occur?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>08:23:27 4/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327010.html">Re: How fast do split ends really occur?</a> - <b>BG</b> <i>03:05:02 4/19/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326980.html">Re: How fast do split ends really occur?</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>19:53:39 4/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326987.html">I will pay more attention to my hair health now</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:50:01 4/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326978.html">Re: How fast do split ends really occur?</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>20:08:14 4/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326979.html">Understandable</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:54:36 4/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326972.html">Oh, These Rainy Days... [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:48:42 3/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326977.html">Quite a wild season</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>11:54:24 4/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326986.html">Re: Quite a wild season</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:04:59 4/02/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326975.html">Looks good to me!</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>08:01:10 4/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326985.html">Re: Looks good to me!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>21:59:23 4/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326971.html">Prom Hairstyles</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>12:17:33 3/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326974.html">Re: Prom Hairstyles [PIC]</a> - <b>Ross</b> <i>03:11:09 4/01/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326973.html">Re: Prom Hairstyles</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:14:16 3/31/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326961.html">Preventing damage while swimming</a> - <b>BG</b> <i>13:09:00 3/19/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326983.html">Re: Preventing damage while swimming</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>21:38:17 4/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326963.html">Re: Preventing damage while swimming [PIC]</a> - <b>Sugarcane</b> <i>18:12:26 3/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326964.html">Re: Preventing damage while swimming </a> - <b>BG</b> <i>07:46:27 3/21/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326952.html">Natural Hair Rinses [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:57:35 3/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326956.html">Re: Natural Hair Rinses </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:35:34 3/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326957.html">Re: Natural Hair Rinses </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:29:29 3/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326962.html">Re: Natural Hair Rinses </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:10:41 3/20/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326950.html">Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>04:58:52 3/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326982.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>21:22:01 4/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326967.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>11:15:09 3/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326965.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:02:07 3/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326966.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:40:27 3/22/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326958.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>Jackson</b> <i>10:40:38 3/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326959.html">Good advice!</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:40:06 3/18/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326955.html">Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:56:46 3/18/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326951.html">Enjoy the ride</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>06:14:17 3/17/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326947.html">Hair Growth</a> - <b>Razeinn</b> <i>16:41:29 3/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326969.html">Don't fight it!</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:10:41 3/25/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326968.html">Re: Hair Growth</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>16:11:36 3/22/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326942.html">The experiment of letting hair down for two months.</a> - <b>WG</b> <i>19:08:05 3/14/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326946.html">Re: The experiment of letting hair down for two months.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:23:02 3/16/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326945.html">Re: The experiment of letting hair down for two months.</a> - <b>lifobryan</b> <i>05:22:33 3/16/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326943.html">Really?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:41:20 3/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326944.html">Re: Really?</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:18:01 3/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326948.html">Is he for real?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>19:36:03 3/16/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326949.html">Maybe a stereotype?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>19:49:39 3/16/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326939.html">4 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>18:49:50 3/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326940.html">Re: 4 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:14:09 3/08/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326938.html">Cant think clearly with head down. </a> - <b>Wadegarret</b> <i>12:45:12 3/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326941.html">Re: Cant think clearly with head down. </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>03:51:59 3/09/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326937.html">History of Long Hair Presentation Help</a> - <b>Erik</b> <i>17:14:03 3/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326929.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:04:00 3/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327068.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>18:23:14 6/26/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326989.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>James</b> <i>20:16:51 4/04/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326953.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:22:44 3/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326930.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:58:53 3/04/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326914.html">An Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>14:26:42 3/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326960.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>BG</b> <i>13:08:55 3/19/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326954.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:26:18 3/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326935.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:00:09 3/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326936.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:22:14 3/06/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326931.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>13:15:54 3/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326933.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>04:53:40 3/05/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326928.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>00:23:22 3/04/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326932.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>04:51:38 3/05/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326934.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:27:48 3/05/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326922.html">Jason's back ! (pun intended)</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:17:06 3/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326926.html">Re: Jason's back ! (pun intended)</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:33:45 3/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326921.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:29:26 3/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326925.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:31:36 3/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326920.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>02:46:20 3/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326924.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:29:12 3/03/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326927.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>16:54:48 3/03/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326919.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:32:52 3/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326923.html">Re: An Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:24:49 3/03/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326904.html">Losing my Hair !</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>07:51:11 2/26/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326984.html">Re: Losing my Hair !</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>21:57:13 4/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326905.html">the free and natual way to unclog the scalp [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>16:32:04 2/26/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326907.html">Great Advice +#128515;+#128077;+#8252;+#65039;</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>03:08:42 2/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326908.html">Hopefully it works</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:14:26 2/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326909.html">Scalp massages</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:48:26 2/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326912.html">Microneedling for Hair Growth</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:20:00 2/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326917.html">wow</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:58:28 3/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326916.html">wow</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:58:23 3/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326915.html">wow</a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:04:14 3/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326918.html">People are noticing</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>19:59:56 3/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326899.html">When does the awkward phase end?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>04:52:43 2/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326998.html">Re: When does the awkward phase end?</a> - <b>Seminole </b> <i>17:34:43 4/11/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326903.html">Re: When does the awkward phase end?</a> - <b>Jackson</b> <i>11:35:06 2/25/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326901.html">Nine Inches</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>07:56:57 2/25/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326902.html">If now hair growth problems</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:29:43 2/25/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326906.html">Re: If now hair growth problems</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>11:05:41 2/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326910.html">Natural hair care</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:42:44 2/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326911.html">Apple Cider Vinegar shampoo recipe</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:50:22 2/28/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326900.html">Re: When does the awkward phase end?</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:50:53 2/24/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326896.html">Homemade Coconut Milk Shampoo</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:04:57 2/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326897.html">Make coconut ice cubes</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:10:01 2/22/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326891.html">Grow Hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Keaton</b> <i>11:19:37 2/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326898.html">Hair Care Page</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:01:17 2/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326894.html">Re: Grow Hair </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:47:38 2/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326893.html">Re: Grow Hair </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:23:41 2/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326892.html">Re: Grow Hair </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:51:29 2/21/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326889.html">Aloe Vera in the hair</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>16:03:36 2/19/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326886.html">11.5 months growth from buzzcut [PIC]</a> - <b>tmk</b> <i>05:42:41 2/18/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326888.html">Re: 11.5 months growth from buzzcut </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:39:43 2/18/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326878.html">DIY Flax seed Hair Gel</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>14:01:12 2/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326895.html">I like it! [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:54:48 2/22/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326881.html">Not bad</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:18:40 2/16/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326872.html">Texture paste gives volume</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>08:03:13 2/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326875.html">Re: Texture paste gives volume</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:41:01 2/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326877.html">How to identify hair damage</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:13:30 2/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326879.html">What's your growth rate? [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:00:26 2/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326885.html">Re: What's your growth rate? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:41:51 2/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326884.html">Re: What's your growth rate? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:23:08 2/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326883.html">Re: What's your growth rate? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:21:47 2/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326882.html">Re: What's your growth rate? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:19:28 2/17/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326880.html">2 years later [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:51:35 2/15/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326887.html">Re: 2 years later </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:45:12 2/18/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326865.html">Been awhile... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>03:20:46 2/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326873.html">MPB Stats</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:33:52 2/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326874.html">Re: MPB Stats</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>03:05:13 2/13/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326890.html">Re: MPB Stats</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:43:07 2/19/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326853.html">Hair after accident</a> - <b>Sam</b> <i>04:58:27 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326854.html">Re: Hair after accident [PIC]</a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>07:07:13 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326860.html">Re: Hair after accident </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>14:26:45 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326866.html">Scalp peel without damaging hair</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>11:42:38 2/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326868.html">Re: Scalp peel without damaging hair</a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>03:11:36 2/12/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326871.html">Remove the scalp shine</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>04:51:09 2/12/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326857.html">Re: Hair after accident </a> - <b>Sam</b> <i>10:45:30 2/10/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326855.html">Scalp cleansing</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>09:34:47 2/10/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326843.html">Beeswax</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>08:54:15 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326844.html">maybe 50%</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:27:58 2/08/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326838.html">My Hair, My Life [PIC]</a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>02:59:22 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326970.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Glinka</b> <i>17:10:59 3/26/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326876.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>FruitMan</b> <i>15:26:33 2/14/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326867.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Rick</b> <i>17:01:00 2/11/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326869.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>03:11:42 2/12/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326859.html">Re: My Hair, My Life [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:49:22 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326862.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>14:29:52 2/10/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326858.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>SAM</b> <i>10:45:35 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326863.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>14:30:56 2/10/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326856.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>fabio</b> <i>10:45:25 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326861.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>14:28:31 2/10/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326849.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>00:19:06 2/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326852.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>05:19:02 2/09/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326864.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:31:41 2/10/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326870.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>03:11:48 2/12/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326848.html">A Selfie [PIC]</a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>17:36:58 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326913.html">Re: A Selfie </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>12:03:52 3/02/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326845.html">Re: My Hair, My Life [PIC]</a> - <b>Sugarcane</b> <i>17:36:42 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326851.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>05:18:57 2/09/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326842.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>08:49:16 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326847.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>17:36:52 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326850.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>02:42:45 2/09/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326839.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>04:31:12 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326846.html">Re: My Hair, My Life </a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>17:36:47 2/08/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326837.html">Natural Scalp Rinse</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>14:47:32 2/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326828.html">vintage [PIC]</a> - <b>Franko</b> <i>11:31:33 2/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326832.html">Re: vintage </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:37:45 2/02/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326833.html">Re: vintage </a> - <b>Franko</b> <i>10:32:24 2/03/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326831.html">Re: vintage </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:37:32 2/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326829.html">Re: vintage </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:42:09 2/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326830.html">Re: vintage </a> - <b>Franko</b> <i>05:00:13 2/02/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326826.html">Terminal Length [PIC]</a> - <b>Joseph</b> <i>03:02:41 2/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326840.html">Re: Terminal Length </a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>06:37:12 2/08/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326841.html">Trim frequency</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>06:55:29 2/08/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326827.html">Re: Terminal Length </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>04:33:52 2/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326824.html">Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's</a> - <b>DaveK</b> <i>17:18:11 1/30/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326836.html">Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>08:31:47 2/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326825.html">Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's</a> - <b>sj</b> <i>03:12:30 1/31/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326834.html">Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's</a> - <b>DaveK</b> <i>10:32:29 2/03/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326822.html">Hair Growth Rate</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>17:53:10 1/28/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326814.html">Damaged hair now gone</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>05:36:31 1/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326819.html">How I damaged my hair for 18 years</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>10:42:53 1/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326823.html">2 Pictures worth a thousand words! [PIC]</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>15:52:29 1/29/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326820.html">important advice</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:54:20 1/28/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326821.html">Re: important advice</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>13:47:22 1/28/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326816.html">Re: Damaged hair now gone</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:41:36 1/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326817.html">Regular trims for length?</a> - <b>BlueBeard</b> <i>19:55:00 1/27/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326813.html">8 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>DunderThome </b> <i>05:21:55 1/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326815.html">Re: 8 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>DunderThome </b> <i>10:35:53 1/27/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326801.html">Another charity wants your hair</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>11:04:01 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326811.html">Re: Another charity wants your hair</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>11:04:53 1/25/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326812.html">Re: Another charity wants your hair</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>05:21:50 1/27/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326818.html">Re: Another charity wants your hair</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>05:23:40 1/28/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326810.html">Re: Another charity wants your hair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>04:04:04 1/25/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326797.html">Still Growing [PIC]</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>17:46:56 1/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326802.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:15:02 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326805.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:34:26 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326806.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>15:20:39 1/24/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326800.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>01:40:57 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326804.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:27:07 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326809.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>02:52:38 1/25/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326799.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:00:24 1/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326803.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:24:28 1/24/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326808.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:15:12 1/24/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326796.html">Hair picture [PIC]</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>09:36:55 1/22/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326798.html">Re: Hair picture </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>17:47:01 1/23/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326807.html">Re: Hair picture </a> - <b>tommmm</b> <i>18:33:11 1/24/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326790.html">Knee length</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>11:26:29 1/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326793.html">Re: Knee length</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>10:59:42 1/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326792.html">Re: Knee length</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>09:43:14 1/21/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326791.html">Re: Knee length</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>16:57:05 1/20/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326794.html">Re: Knee length</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:27:26 1/21/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326783.html">Lovely swamp gypsy!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>01:02:57 1/05/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326775.html">End of Year Pic 2018 [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>15:43:49 12/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326780.html">Re: End of Year Pic 2018 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:24:01 1/01/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326779.html">Great New Year's Resolution</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:27:12 1/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326773.html">growing hair</a> - <b>herta</b> <i>05:36:17 12/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326786.html">Re: growing hair</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>13:55:27 1/14/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326795.html">Re: growing hair</a> - <b>herta</b> <i>03:03:10 1/22/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326769.html">Yearly update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:53:18 12/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326770.html">Re: Yearly update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:55:31 12/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326784.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>05:40:56 1/06/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326787.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>15:07:52 1/17/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326788.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:38:55 1/17/19</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326781.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:26:59 1/01/19</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326782.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:08:23 1/01/19</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326776.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>18:10:36 12/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326777.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>10:45:54 12/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326778.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>14:57:40 12/31/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326772.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:43:37 12/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326774.html">Re: Yearly update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>10:56:21 12/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326768.html">Dreadlocks</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:00:44 12/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326766.html">Greetings</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:17:18 12/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326767.html">Re: Greetings</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>00:01:37 12/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326763.html">Cleitom Njord Drago</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>15:06:45 12/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326765.html">Another</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>10:35:57 12/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326764.html">Re: Cleitom Njord Drago</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:33:47 12/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326743.html">In-between long and short</a> - <b>Brayton</b> <i>08:46:47 12/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326754.html">Re: In-between long and short</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>04:37:10 12/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326756.html">Re: Re: In-between long and short</a> - <b>Brayton</b> <i>03:04:43 12/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326760.html">Re: Re: In-between long and short</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>17:47:33 12/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326762.html">Re: Re: Re: In-between long and short</a> - <b>Brayton</b> <i>06:22:30 12/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326745.html">Re: In-between long and short</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>10:39:24 12/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326730.html">7 Years and 8 months update. [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:59:23 12/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326761.html">sans [PIC]</a> - <b>Joaquin</b> <i>17:52:53 12/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326755.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:54:21 12/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326759.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>06:27:30 12/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326748.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>16:18:17 12/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326750.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>21:41:19 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326744.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>08:49:21 12/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326751.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>21:42:18 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326734.html"> Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:54:27 12/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326739.html">Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>16:34:08 12/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326742.html">Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>19:25:17 12/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326981.html">Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>20:03:36 4/02/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326752.html">Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>21:49:17 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326733.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>16:22:09 12/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326738.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>16:34:03 12/13/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326732.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>05:52:33 12/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326737.html">Re: 7 Years and 8 months update. </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>16:33:58 12/13/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326725.html">Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair) [PIC]</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>08:09:32 12/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326731.html">Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair) </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:59:28 12/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326729.html">Long time no see</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:56:28 12/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326728.html">Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair) </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>08:15:19 12/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326726.html">Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair) </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>08:15:22 12/10/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326721.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>18:24:15 12/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326727.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>08:20:09 12/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326736.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>05:29:33 12/13/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326724.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:45:00 12/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326749.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>17:03:26 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326717.html">Urge to trim 4 inches </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>11:17:50 12/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326723.html">Re: Urge to trim 4 inches </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:42:28 12/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326719.html">Re: Urge to trim 4 inches </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:24:20 12/03/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326710.html">Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>23:37:18 11/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326789.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Tom</b> <i>16:21:09 1/18/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326735.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Nathan</b> <i>03:00:33 12/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326741.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:42:31 12/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326740.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>16:34:14 12/13/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326713.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:53:56 12/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326716.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:27:35 12/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326714.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>15:25:32 12/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326718.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:19:00 12/03/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326711.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:29:17 12/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326715.html">Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:26:20 12/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326705.html">Howdy [PIC]</a> - <b>Jay Scott </b> <i>03:04:06 11/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326753.html">Re: Howdy </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>04:37:04 12/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326712.html">Re: Howdy </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:31:34 12/01/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326706.html">Re: Howdy </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:52:49 11/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326703.html">Hairforce Kalender 2019</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>07:55:02 11/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326704.html">Re: Hairforce Kalender 2019</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:13:12 11/27/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326690.html">''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>18:34:02 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326697.html">Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:55:26 11/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326692.html">Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:57:22 11/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326696.html">Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>18:31:14 11/23/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326676.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:23:16 11/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326757.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>07:23:01 12/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326771.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>10:43:23 12/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326701.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>17:49:56 11/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326746.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:42:19 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326691.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>18:36:45 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326694.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:08:42 11/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326698.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:51:04 11/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326747.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:46:13 12/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326684.html">chaos indeed</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:06:21 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326689.html">Re: chaos indeed</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>16:07:48 11/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326687.html">Re: chaos indeed</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:30:24 11/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326682.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:02:55 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326685.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:45:33 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326688.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:44:42 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326693.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:04:04 11/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326702.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:26:56 11/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326680.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:53:47 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326686.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:51:23 11/22/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326675.html">Update after a long time [PIC]</a> - <b>S</b> <i>06:14:14 11/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326700.html">Re: Update after a long time </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>17:46:33 11/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326679.html">Re: Update after a long time </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:45:41 11/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326683.html">Re: Update after a long time </a> - <b>S</b> <i>08:28:24 11/22/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326663.html">Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Mike</b> <i>05:15:54 11/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326670.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>06:16:30 11/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326669.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:14:19 11/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326673.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>05:18:33 11/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326674.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>05:56:39 11/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326671.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>16:11:12 11/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326668.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:23:28 11/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326664.html">Re: Anti long hair preacher</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>10:55:24 11/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326654.html">Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:26:17 11/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326667.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:28:53 11/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326707.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:47:15 11/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326662.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>03:45:24 11/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326708.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:48:12 11/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326658.html">[PIC]Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>06:14:25 11/15/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326656.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>03:03:27 11/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326699.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>17:37:08 11/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326709.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:49:02 11/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326655.html">Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:49:57 11/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326657.html">[PIC] Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>06:14:20 11/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326646.html">3 Yrs [PIC]</a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>05:01:33 11/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326785.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Ryan</b> <i>16:05:20 1/10/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326758.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>07:25:29 12/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326695.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:16:27 11/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326672.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>21:39:29 11/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326659.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>07:56:22 11/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326661.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:06:54 11/16/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326653.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>17:05:26 11/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326660.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>03:06:48 11/16/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326649.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Mike</b> <i>09:38:02 11/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326650.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>02:58:15 11/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326647.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:11:18 11/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326651.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>MattT</b> <i>02:58:21 11/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326652.html">Re: 3 Yrs </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:37:27 11/14/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326639.html">7 Years and 4 Months [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:39:53 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326835.html">Re: 7 Years and 4 Months [PIC]</a> - <b>Jin</b> <i>03:08:29 2/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326648.html">Re: 7 Years and 4 Months </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:20:19 11/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326666.html">Re: 7 Years and 4 Months </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:19:48 11/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326644.html">Re: 7 Years and 4 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:53:21 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326665.html">Re: 7 Years and 4 Months </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:05:05 11/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326635.html">Deciding on a Length [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>02:41:26 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326722.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>03:08:16 12/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326637.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:16:44 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326638.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:21:56 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326640.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:58:43 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326645.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:46:03 11/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326636.html">Re: Deciding on a Length </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:55:35 11/09/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326626.html">5 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Robert</b> <i>09:08:39 10/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326633.html">Re: 5 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>04:47:51 10/28/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326630.html">Re: 5 years </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:58:53 10/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326628.html">Re: 5 years </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:35:13 10/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326622.html">Hair getting pulled</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>17:24:00 10/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326623.html">Re: Hair getting pulled</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:22:13 10/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326624.html">Re: Hair getting pulled</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:04:57 10/25/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326602.html">1 Year Progress Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:49:08 10/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326677.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:23:22 11/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326681.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>05:59:27 11/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326642.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:28:34 11/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326643.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:48:18 11/09/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326609.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:56:06 10/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326612.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:12:04 10/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326610.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:59:39 10/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326613.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:20:30 10/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326606.html">Progress Indeed !!</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:32:11 10/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326607.html">Re: Progress Indeed !!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:58:27 10/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326603.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:50:59 10/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326625.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:04:39 10/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326627.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:31:38 10/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326629.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:07:28 10/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326632.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:12:13 10/27/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326604.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point) [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:54:20 10/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326615.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point) </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>23:01:39 10/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326616.html">Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:54:27 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326601.html">Fun long hair video</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>12:54:41 10/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326641.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:10:36 11/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326614.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>22:47:51 10/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326611.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:06:24 10/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326605.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>15:57:22 10/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326608.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:53:30 10/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326634.html">Re: Fun long hair video</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:10:27 11/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326588.html">Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:27:02 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326598.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:55:46 10/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326599.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>01:45:04 10/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326597.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>11:45:22 10/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326600.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>01:55:25 10/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326595.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:12:59 10/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326596.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>07:44:42 10/10/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326593.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:41:35 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326619.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:59:18 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326592.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:38:45 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326621.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:02:27 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326591.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:37:42 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326617.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:56:39 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326590.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:33:44 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326618.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:57:47 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326589.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:30:55 10/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326620.html">Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:00:40 10/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326578.html">Just turned 56 [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>08:01:34 10/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326594.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>21:46:13 10/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326585.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:13:56 10/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326584.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>20:55:24 10/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326583.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:21:31 10/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326582.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:12:47 10/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326581.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:11:50 10/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326586.html">Re: Just turned 56 [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>17:44:08 10/07/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326580.html">Re: Just turned 56 </a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>12:02:25 10/06/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326570.html">At the Organ [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:55:23 10/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326720.html">Re: At the Organ </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:28:24 12/03/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326678.html">Re: At the Organ </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>14:23:27 11/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326631.html">Re: At the Organ </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>11:47:06 10/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326579.html">Re: At the Organ </a> - <b>James</b> <i>08:02:44 10/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326575.html">Re: At the Organ </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:23:31 10/04/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326566.html">4 Month Update - Still coming along [PIC]</a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>03:00:52 10/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326569.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:30:41 10/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326572.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>13:35:30 10/04/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326568.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:40:17 10/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326573.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>DunderThome </b> <i>13:47:18 10/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326574.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:05:25 10/04/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326567.html">Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along </a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>08:34:25 10/03/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326563.html">Do Women find long hair attractive?</a> - <b>Tommmm</b> <i>12:21:34 10/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326571.html">Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:19:21 10/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326565.html">Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:15:10 10/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326564.html">Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:36:06 10/02/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326558.html">Coming to Florida + Israel</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:52:39 9/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326559.html">Re: Coming to Florida + Israel + Marana, Arizona</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:07:39 9/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326560.html">Re: Coming to Florida + Israel + Marana, Arizona</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:33:42 9/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326537.html">Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>Michael </b> <i>11:54:20 9/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326539.html">Re: Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:47:10 9/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326553.html">Re: Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>Michael</b> <i>05:10:37 9/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326576.html">Re: Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>18:14:50 10/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326587.html">Re: Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:54:07 10/08/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326554.html">Re: Conditioners vs hair management</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:00:35 9/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326526.html">Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:07:40 9/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326562.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:59:29 10/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326542.html">Re: Long hair goals. [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:54:43 9/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326544.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:08:20 9/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326538.html">Re: Long hair goals. [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:25:30 9/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326548.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>RossRS</b> <i>03:10:05 9/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326551.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:40:46 9/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326543.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:03:04 9/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326546.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:52:17 9/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326540.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:49:57 9/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326547.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:56:12 9/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326549.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:37:51 9/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326550.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:38:28 9/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326552.html">Re: Long hair goals. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:28:23 9/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326535.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>18:51:12 9/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326541.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:53:23 9/16/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326533.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:12:50 9/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326534.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:33:31 9/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326532.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:54:32 9/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326531.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:02:52 9/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326530.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:47:14 9/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326528.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>14:27:45 9/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326529.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:32:49 9/13/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326527.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:29:10 9/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326577.html">Re: Long hair goals.</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>20:24:59 10/05/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326508.html">Dying hair to match beard [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:00:02 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326517.html">Re: Dying hair to match beard </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:25:46 9/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326519.html">Re: Dying hair to match beard </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:13:05 9/11/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326510.html">Re: Dying hair to match beard </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:14:02 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326513.html">thanks [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:07:16 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326545.html">Re: thanks </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:57:35 9/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326514.html">Re: thanks </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:47:59 9/09/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326505.html">Older Guys</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:28:52 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326524.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:26:36 9/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326522.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:57:06 9/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326511.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:21:50 9/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326507.html">'da first baby boomer and his hair ! [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>12:14:26 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326509.html">Re: 'da first baby boomer and his hair ! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:07:24 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326515.html">Victory ! [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>15:22:38 9/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326525.html">Re: Victory ! </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:32:17 9/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326521.html">Re: Victory ! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:51:12 9/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326523.html">Re: Victory ! </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:44:48 9/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326516.html">Re: Victory ! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:30:14 9/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326506.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:42:29 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326512.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:26:51 9/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326518.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:31:03 9/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326520.html">Re: Older Guys</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:42:55 9/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326500.html">oil and hair knots</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>13:51:27 9/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326504.html">Re: oil and hair knots</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:16:44 9/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326561.html">Re: oil and hair knots</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>10:18:53 9/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326496.html">Martial Arts</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>21:14:55 9/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326499.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>07:26:21 9/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326501.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>15:35:52 9/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326502.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>03:10:38 9/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326498.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>07:26:20 9/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326497.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>04:47:07 9/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326503.html">Re: Martial Arts</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>19:13:14 9/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326492.html">Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>08:30:43 9/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326536.html">Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>19:46:18 9/14/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326493.html">Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>10:28:31 9/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326494.html">Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>11:49:11 9/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326495.html">Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>12:16:01 9/04/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326468.html">Bleaching!</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:15:35 8/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326481.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:25:13 8/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326483.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>02:23:57 9/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326475.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>10:20:20 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326476.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:08:42 8/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326471.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>09:34:39 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326489.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:03:01 9/02/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326469.html">Re: Bleaching!</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>06:58:40 8/29/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326448.html">Website gaylonghair.com gone [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>04:46:05 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326470.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>09:20:11 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326490.html">Jonathan Van Ness</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>10:13:31 9/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326491.html">Re: Jonathan Van Ness [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>17:45:04 9/03/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326482.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:35:08 8/31/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326478.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:51:48 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326484.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:32:38 9/01/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326479.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:25:46 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326486.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:55:18 9/01/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326480.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:31:19 8/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326485.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:40:45 9/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326487.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:23:32 9/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326488.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:19:37 9/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326474.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:02:13 8/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326457.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:04:05 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326464.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:01:00 8/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326463.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:00:43 8/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326461.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:03:43 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326455.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>10:44:51 8/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326450.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:01:57 8/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326449.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:20:09 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326456.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone - Bill [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>10:44:56 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326462.html">Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone - Bill </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:07:11 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326442.html">Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>10:13:54 8/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326447.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:06:20 8/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326459.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>11:33:55 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326446.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:18:33 8/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326458.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>11:33:07 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326440.html">7 Years and 2 Months Video [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:13:01 8/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326472.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>09:56:31 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326557.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:52:03 9/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326460.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>11:36:01 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326556.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:37:45 9/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326445.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:20:30 8/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326451.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:48:27 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326467.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:01:41 8/27/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326444.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>10:14:04 8/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326452.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:54:22 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326465.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>21:06:55 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326555.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video - self trim</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:29:43 9/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326473.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>10:00:09 8/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326477.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video ***** Warning******</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:42:41 8/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326441.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>09:18:26 8/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326453.html">Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:58:17 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326434.html">Trim just to shorten </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>09:37:34 8/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326454.html">Re: Trim just to shorten </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:07:18 8/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326466.html">Re: Trim just to shorten </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>21:07:00 8/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326438.html">Re: Trim just to shorten </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:28:06 8/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326443.html">Re: Trim just to shorten </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>10:13:59 8/24/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326424.html">Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. [PIC]</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>11:11:24 8/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326431.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>03:05:25 8/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326435.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>09:37:39 8/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326427.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:35:49 8/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326430.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>18:19:02 8/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326428.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>18:18:52 8/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326425.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:25:44 8/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326429.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. </a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>18:18:57 8/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326432.html">Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:42:49 8/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326433.html">Right side up now ;) [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:44:55 8/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326415.html">Air dry routine</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>22:44:43 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326416.html">Brush it when dry too</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:21:03 8/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326412.html">Tips for growing out?</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>14:57:26 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326423.html">Re: Tips for growing out?</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>10:46:28 8/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326422.html">regular conditioning</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>04:43:51 8/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326436.html">Re: regular conditioning</a> - <b>Daniël</b> <i>09:37:44 8/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326420.html">how to know it's damaged</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:42:35 8/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326421.html">it breaks</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:11:22 8/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326406.html">Afro pick and the white guy :)</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:15:59 8/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326395.html">Beards</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>04:02:13 8/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326403.html">Re: Beards</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>11:27:34 8/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326402.html">Facial Hair</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:27:09 8/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326404.html">Re: Facial Hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>11:30:13 8/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326426.html">Victory [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>13:19:44 8/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326400.html">Re: Beards</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>11:20:03 8/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326405.html">long hair feminine?</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:08:41 8/16/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326392.html">Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:54:10 8/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326414.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:27:37 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326418.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:11:25 8/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326437.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:44:19 8/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326439.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:34:09 8/23/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326393.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:56:59 8/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326396.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:51:03 8/15/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326394.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:02:52 8/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326397.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:53:59 8/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326401.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>11:25:07 8/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326407.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:45:37 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326417.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:06:43 8/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326419.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:16:03 8/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326408.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:48:26 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326411.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:56:06 8/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326399.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:32:57 8/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326410.html">Re: Encampment [PIC]</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:30:39 8/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326413.html">Re: Encampment </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:19:35 8/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326409.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:03:56 8/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326398.html">Re: Encampment</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:16:37 8/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326390.html">Benny + Volpe</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>12:15:32 8/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326391.html">Re: Benny + Volpe</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:46:21 8/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326374.html">Vic's vapor rub in the hair? [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:24:41 8/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326379.html">Re: Vic's vapor rub in the hair? </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:04:26 8/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326380.html">Hair damage?</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:27:28 8/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326386.html">Re: Hair damage?</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>09:30:54 8/09/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326372.html">Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:28:35 8/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326375.html">Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:01:09 8/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326381.html">Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:34:09 8/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326376.html">Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:18:50 8/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326382.html">Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:42:03 8/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326383.html">Also...</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:54:15 8/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326388.html">Re: Also...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:29:46 8/12/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326378.html">Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:33:43 8/07/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326365.html">2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:47:03 8/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326387.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>09:21:26 8/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326389.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:37:33 8/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326377.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:26:19 8/07/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326373.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:26:10 8/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326369.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>13:38:40 8/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326370.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>14:07:53 8/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326367.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:54:04 8/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326384.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:57:57 8/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326368.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:56:33 8/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326366.html">Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:52:40 8/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326363.html">Tips for growing hair out?</a> - <b>TalkWithMyHair</b> <i>08:18:00 7/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326364.html">Re: Tips for growing hair out?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:42:04 8/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326358.html">Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>MetaligerAlsHeavyMetalDrachenLord</b> <i>09:39:49 7/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326385.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:07:57 8/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326371.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:41:42 8/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326361.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:38:55 7/29/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326360.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:15:28 7/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326362.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:16:44 7/29/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326359.html">Re: Hair Grow Journey</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>10:36:05 7/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326356.html">Another update, 40 months [PIC]</a> - <b>Jim</b> <i>18:33:00 7/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326357.html">Re: Another update, 40 months </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:54:22 7/27/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326355.html">ManeBear, 58 yo, Hair + Beard Jan 2018 [PIC]</a> - <b>ManeBear</b> <i>18:32:55 7/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326352.html">Dale Monzano</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>09:34:14 7/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326351.html">July Pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>01:45:35 7/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326353.html">Re: July Pic </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:12:29 7/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326354.html">Re: July Pic </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>23:26:14 7/25/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326345.html">Its been awhile..... [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>02:38:15 7/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326349.html">Re: Its been awhile..... </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>05:29:58 7/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326347.html">Re: Its been awhile..... </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:09:02 7/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326346.html">Re: Its been awhile..... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:47:46 7/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326339.html">Starting over again [PIC]</a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>16:12:49 7/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326350.html">Re: Starting over again </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:59:06 7/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326340.html">Re: Starting over again </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>18:28:25 7/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326343.html">Re: Starting over again </a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>17:37:21 7/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326341.html">Re: Starting over again </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>11:37:26 7/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326344.html">Re: Starting over again </a> - <b>DunderThome</b> <i>17:37:26 7/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326338.html">sides growing out healthy</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>05:46:35 7/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326335.html">hair growth rate and age</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>13:59:57 7/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326332.html">Men with Very Long Hair in China</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>20:37:58 7/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326334.html">Re: Men with Very Long Hair in China</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>02:50:10 7/16/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326330.html">I finally felt it!!</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:05:56 7/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326333.html">Re: I finally felt it!!</a> - <b>LongestHairMan</b> <i>02:01:51 7/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326336.html">not even</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:44:17 7/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326331.html">Re: I finally felt it!!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:54:00 7/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326328.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Jim </b> <i>21:31:37 7/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326342.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>11:43:28 7/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326329.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>13:56:24 7/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326326.html">short hair moisturizing cream</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:34:09 7/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326327.html">maybe this [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:13:10 7/11/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326323.html">7 Years since my last proper hair cut [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:09:05 7/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326325.html">oil on the ends may give you more length</a> - <b>The Kid ever</b> <i>04:39:40 7/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326348.html">Re: oil on the ends may give you more length</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>05:20:40 7/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326324.html">Re: 7 Years since my last proper hair cut </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:30:05 7/11/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326322.html">Traction Alopecia</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>11:14:59 7/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326318.html">thin area is growing!! [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:46:47 7/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326319.html">Re: thin area is growing!! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:32:43 7/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326320.html">nutrition</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:30:01 7/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326317.html">Minoxidil use</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:08:26 7/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326312.html">Natural oil fix</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>02:06:48 7/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326337.html">Re: Natural oil fix</a> - <b>Zack</b> <i>01:51:53 7/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326314.html">Castor + Peppermint oil mix</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:14:36 7/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326316.html">Re: Castor + Peppermint oil mix</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>01:54:21 7/09/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326313.html">peppermint oil is potent</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:14:31 7/07/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326300.html">Braiding tools</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:08:32 7/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326309.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:44:23 7/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326304.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:24:42 7/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326305.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>10:32:55 7/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326307.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:13:22 7/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326308.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:43:59 7/05/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326303.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:40:33 7/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326301.html">Re: Braiding tools</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:23:38 7/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326306.html">VERY cool!</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>10:42:41 7/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326315.html">Re: VERY cool!</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:54:59 7/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326321.html">Looks good</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>04:44:35 7/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326296.html">Don't cut the short hairs that don't grow in spots</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>06:51:58 7/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326297.html">Bald if you cut them-probably only couple years</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:26:42 7/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326311.html">hair growth cycle [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>13:34:32 7/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326294.html">Detangling boar's hair brush</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:54:08 7/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326286.html">New hairline!</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:18:32 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326295.html">Re: New hairline!</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>20:25:31 7/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326299.html">Biotin is water soluble</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:11:54 7/04/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326290.html">Re: New hairline!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:13:16 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326291.html">Re: New hairline!</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>23:03:45 6/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326283.html">Looking for a Chicago salon</a> - <b>Dan</b> <i>08:14:00 6/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326293.html">Re: Looking for a Chicago salon</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>19:24:48 7/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326280.html">Arrrrrr! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>11:50:12 6/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326302.html">Re: Arrrrrr! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:11:15 7/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326310.html">Re: Arrrrrr! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>07:00:20 7/06/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326282.html">Re: Arrrrrr! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:42:06 6/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326298.html">Re: Arrrrrr! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>00:20:03 7/04/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326281.html">Re: Arrrrrr! </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>22:31:47 6/25/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326271.html">Hooked Ponytail Cuff [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>19:26:28 6/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326284.html">Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:58:16 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326287.html">Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>10:17:05 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326288.html">Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>11:39:37 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326292.html">Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>08:17:42 6/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326270.html">adding hair volume</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:49:20 6/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326285.html">Re: adding hair volume</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:18:26 6/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326289.html">Re: adding hair volume</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:09:58 6/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326268.html">Measuring your terminal length</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:27:00 6/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326263.html">Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:55:04 6/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326266.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>19:21:44 6/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326272.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>17:09:09 6/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326274.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:38:01 6/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326275.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:13:45 6/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326276.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:32:23 6/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326277.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:13:48 6/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326279.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>13:36:05 6/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326278.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:01:42 6/23/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326273.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:14:12 6/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326267.html">Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:03:24 6/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326261.html">First time posting, long time to the board [PIC]</a> - <b>Jim </b> <i>02:19:54 6/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326269.html">Re: First time posting, long time to the board </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>17:55:43 6/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326264.html">Re: First time posting, long time to the board </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>13:14:47 6/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326262.html">Re: First time posting, long time to the board </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:43:34 6/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326260.html">Water wash</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:05:20 6/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326259.html">Still Growing [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>22:49:19 6/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326265.html">Re: Still Growing </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>13:16:52 6/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326251.html">Ponytail cuff</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:38:11 6/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326254.html">Re: Ponytail cuff</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:21:53 6/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326255.html">Hair Ringz [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:23:10 6/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326248.html">Awkward stage tip</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:31:21 6/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326242.html">Boar's hair bristle brush</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:01:19 6/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326256.html">Nice n soft</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:11:40 6/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326238.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>20:32:02 6/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326241.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:05:04 6/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326258.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>21:40:02 6/16/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326240.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>20:26:01 6/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326257.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>21:28:26 6/16/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326237.html">Airport security is fun</a> - <b>matt</b> <i>17:52:36 6/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326244.html">Re: Airport security is fun</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:30:40 6/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326239.html">Re: Airport security is fun</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:59:39 6/09/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326233.html">Update PIC</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:52:10 6/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326235.html">Surely you're not a Latvian named lvusis?</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>11:20:33 6/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326234.html">Re: Update PIC</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:53:01 6/08/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326221.html"> Braid cut</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:23:30 6/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326247.html">Last Samurai movie</a> - <b>The Kid ever</b> <i>13:31:23 6/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326243.html">Re: Braid cut</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>17:36:15 6/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326232.html">Re: Braid cut</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:46:59 6/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326224.html">Re: Braid cut</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:12:09 6/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326223.html">Re: Braid cut</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:25:12 6/06/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326217.html">5 months in..</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:51:38 6/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326249.html">hair pictodiary</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:18:11 6/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326218.html">Re: 5 months in..</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:05:38 6/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326219.html">Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>07:44:26 6/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326245.html">headwrap</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:08:21 6/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326246.html">Re: headwrap</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:04:17 6/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326250.html">some pictures [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:18:17 6/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326252.html">Re: some pictures </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:12:38 6/12/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326230.html">Re: 5 months in.. </a> - <b>Rabbit111</b> <i>17:45:37 6/07/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326220.html">Re: 5 months in.. </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>07:45:27 6/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326222.html">Re: 5 months in.. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:18:24 6/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326225.html">Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>01:39:28 6/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326226.html">Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>01:40:30 6/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326227.html">Re: 5 months in.. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:00:28 6/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326228.html">Dammit! Here's the pic! [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:04:17 6/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326229.html">Re: Dammit! Here's the pic! [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:08:07 6/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326231.html">Re: Dammit! Here's the pic! </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>04:24:42 6/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326236.html">Re: Dammit! Here's the pic! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:58:51 6/08/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326216.html">DIY Argan oil leave in hair moisturizer</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>11:21:52 6/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326206.html">Long time no see! [PIC]</a> - <b>Rabbit111</b> <i>14:06:08 6/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326214.html">Re: Long time no see! </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:33:49 6/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326215.html">Re: Long time no see! </a> - <b>Rabbit111</b> <i>16:35:53 6/02/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326211.html">Re: Long time no see! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:19:57 6/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326213.html">Re: Long time no see! </a> - <b>Rabbit111</b> <i>13:32:12 6/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326204.html">thyroid blood test results normal</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:09:06 6/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326205.html">Re: thyroid blood test results normal</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:57:01 6/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326207.html">Re: thyroid blood test results normal</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>21:00:46 6/01/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326200.html">John Romero Hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Danky Kang</b> <i>17:05:06 5/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326208.html">Re: John Romero Hair </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:03:12 6/01/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326202.html">Re: John Romero Hair</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>02:05:17 6/01/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326199.html">Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:10:10 5/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326209.html">Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:12:25 6/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326210.html">Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:14:12 6/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326212.html">Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:37:46 6/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326201.html">Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:01:42 5/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326203.html">Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:14:18 6/01/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326195.html">Natural hair drying routine</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:10:20 5/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326197.html">Plopping with a T-shirt</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:28:15 5/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326191.html">School hair</a> - <b>Jake Attood</b> <i>13:42:25 5/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326198.html">Some people never REALLY mature!</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:41:49 5/30/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326196.html">lift weights</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:14:18 5/30/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326194.html">Re: School hair</a> - <b>Agoraphobia</b> <i>02:04:23 5/30/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326192.html">Re: School hair</a> - <b>James</b> <i>16:33:26 5/29/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326190.html">Hair bun</a> - <b>Corbin Schumm</b> <i>13:42:20 5/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326193.html">Re: Hair bun</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>16:59:55 5/29/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326189.html">Hair ties for guys [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:14:56 5/29/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326184.html">Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>16:27:30 5/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326188.html">big hat</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>04:11:47 5/29/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326186.html">Re: Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>01:51:52 5/29/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326185.html">Re: Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:52:22 5/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326182.html">castor oil</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>20:54:25 5/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326181.html">hairdryers problematic</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:22:08 5/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326183.html">Re: hairdryers problematic</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:54:40 5/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326187.html">should've learned first time</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:07:01 5/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326179.html">Hair care products for brother Raymond [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:57:10 5/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326180.html">temperature bad</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>17:02:49 5/27/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326173.html">when's it time for a clarifying shampoo</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>02:50:07 5/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326169.html">Much less hair breakage</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>06:57:31 5/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326172.html">Re: Much less hair breakage</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:57:55 5/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326176.html">jojoba oil</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:39:46 5/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326175.html">water wash with conditioner</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:21:45 5/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326174.html">coconut oil</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:12:49 5/25/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326167.html">Which Hair supplement is best?</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:45:14 5/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326168.html">Re: Which Hair supplement is best? [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:50:28 5/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326162.html">9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>14:42:40 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326178.html">Re: 9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair. </a> - <b>Hairy Guy</b> <i>04:47:17 5/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326164.html">Re: 9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:20:09 5/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326148.html">My thinning hair pic now [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>18:10:06 5/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326156.html">Re: My thinning hair pic now </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>12:00:38 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326158.html">Re: My thinning hair pic now </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:27:40 5/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326149.html">cowlick spot before</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>03:59:32 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326150.html">18+ years</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>06:31:47 5/22/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326146.html">Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>14:40:02 5/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326159.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:45:13 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326165.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>18:47:34 5/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326160.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>13:52:14 5/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326155.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>11:42:28 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326157.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>12:17:54 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326161.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>14:02:52 5/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326163.html">Re: Thyroid and hair loss</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:35:04 5/22/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326147.html">Hair, skin, and nails</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>04:08:22 5/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326144.html">Unclogging hair scalp pores</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>05:15:52 5/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326154.html">Re: Unclogging hair scalp pores</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>11:29:06 5/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326145.html">Re: Unclogging hair scalp pores</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>13:31:05 5/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326141.html">May 2018 [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>12:41:33 5/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326143.html">Re: May 2018 </a> - <b>James</b> <i>10:27:13 5/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326171.html">Re: May 2018 </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>20:19:19 5/24/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326133.html">Two years ago, today... [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:44:48 5/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326153.html">Re: Two years ago, today... </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>11:24:05 5/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326138.html">Two years already....sigh</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>02:13:50 5/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326137.html">Re: Two years ago, today... </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>02:06:55 5/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326136.html">Re: Two years ago, today... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:34:32 5/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326135.html">My visit with Bill and Larry... [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:42:05 5/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326134.html">bandanas and doo rags</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>15:56:35 5/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326127.html">Bill's hair wisdom</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:50:24 5/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326128.html">Re: Bill's hair wisdom</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:25:13 5/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326124.html">Wiry grey hairs</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>16:40:34 5/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326125.html">Re: Wiry grey hairs</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:04:16 5/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326126.html">Re: Wiry grey hairs</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:42:26 5/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326139.html">Re: Wiry grey hairs</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>04:29:21 5/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326118.html">Damaged hair and ponytails</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>11:30:47 5/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326152.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>11:20:25 5/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326120.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:34:51 5/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326122.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:57:14 5/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326121.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails [PIC]</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:46:54 5/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326140.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:46:18 5/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326177.html">the rock and rollers</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>05:23:03 5/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326170.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>07:17:23 5/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326129.html">Re: Damaged hair and ponytails </a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:40:00 5/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326130.html">No more hair tangles</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>08:48:50 5/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326112.html">Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:01:26 5/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326151.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>11:10:33 5/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326142.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>06:08:01 5/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326132.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:40:05 5/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326131.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>09:40:00 5/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326123.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>The Kid</b> <i>10:15:00 5/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326117.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:39:43 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326111.html">Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:01:05 5/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326119.html">Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:30:12 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326101.html">Shedding... untangling...</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>05:41:53 5/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326106.html">Re: Shedding... untangling...</a> - <b>samsonite8881</b> <i>15:44:34 5/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326105.html">Re: Shedding... untangling...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:18:04 5/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326103.html">Re: Shedding... untangling...</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:45:30 5/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326097.html">Baldness</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:00:02 5/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326099.html">Re: Baldness</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>10:18:34 5/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326102.html">Re: Baldness</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:34:53 5/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326100.html">Re: Baldness</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:30:06 5/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326093.html">Progress - About 7-8 months [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:27:28 5/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326110.html">Re: Progress - About 7-8 months </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>22:26:50 5/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326116.html">Thanks, Bob. (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:34:41 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326109.html">Re: Progress - About 7-8 months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:40:16 5/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326115.html">Thanks, Ted... I'll be sticking around :) ! (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:34:07 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326107.html">Re: Progress - About 7-8 months </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>23:26:25 5/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326114.html">Thank you, Vincent :) ! (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:33:15 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326104.html">Re: Progress - About 7-8 months </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:51:29 5/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326113.html">Thanks, Mârk... good to be back :) ! (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:32:33 5/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326096.html">deja vue</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>02:10:47 5/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326098.html">Thanks... Great to be back! (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>05:37:27 5/11/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326094.html">Re: Progress - About 7-8 months </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:50:16 5/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326095.html">Thanks, Jason! (n/t)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>11:36:09 5/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326089.html">Coming to Texas</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:20:05 5/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326090.html">Re: Coming to Texas</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:36:07 5/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326092.html">Re: Coming to Texas</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>01:33:49 5/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326085.html">What my hair looked like before I cut [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:04:35 4/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326087.html">Re: What my hair looked like before I cut </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>08:36:39 4/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326088.html">Re: What my hair looked like before I cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:50:18 4/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326044.html">On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:35:40 4/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326108.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>23:32:07 5/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326166.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>01:20:35 5/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326083.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>jojo</b> <i>20:45:51 4/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326084.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:02:08 4/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326077.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>18:57:21 4/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326082.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>01:32:25 4/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326074.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:08:21 4/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326081.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>01:12:07 4/26/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326068.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:38:37 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326069.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>12:58:03 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326072.html">Thanks! (N/T)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:13:58 4/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326064.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:15:17 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326067.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:29:51 4/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326050.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>23:05:36 4/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326058.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:38:05 4/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326045.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:40:19 4/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326053.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:31:57 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326059.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:47:49 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326070.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:51:16 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326073.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:59:50 4/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326052.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:30:53 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326054.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:34:27 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326060.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:56:45 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326061.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>02:30:33 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326062.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>05:21:25 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326063.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>07:14:40 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326066.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:26:40 4/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326051.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>05:23:43 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326057.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:33:37 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326065.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>08:28:48 4/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326048.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>DanielR</b> <i>21:54:56 4/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326056.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:26:53 4/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326071.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>DanielR</b> <i>18:25:27 4/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326075.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:01:48 4/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326076.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>DanielR</b> <i>14:57:52 4/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326080.html">Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>10:35:29 4/24/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326042.html">Update, Over 3 1/2 years? [PIC]</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>14:00:03 4/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326078.html">Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years? </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>19:15:47 4/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326055.html">Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:24:37 4/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326049.html">Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years? </a> - <b>DanielR</b> <i>22:00:11 4/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326046.html">Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:44:11 4/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326043.html">Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:01:56 4/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326020.html">Long Haired News Reporter</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:21:12 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326022.html">Re: Long Haired News Reporter</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:49:41 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326023.html">Re: Long Haired News Reporter</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:32:15 4/08/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326016.html">This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>LilyLoon</b> <i>19:46:55 4/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326021.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>15:35:54 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326024.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:33:40 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326025.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>18:22:49 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326026.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:36:03 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326029.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:05:38 4/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326027.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>19:05:13 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326030.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:17:17 4/09/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326032.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:20:00 4/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326033.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:19:27 4/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326034.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>14:42:35 4/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326028.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:28:45 4/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326031.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:43:21 4/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326035.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:40:16 4/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326036.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:10:14 4/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326019.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>_zak_</b> <i>07:58:14 4/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326018.html">Re: This is the best website ever to exist</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>07:58:09 4/08/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326009.html">Non-receding pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Moonwards</b> <i>17:18:23 4/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326014.html">Re: Non-receding pic </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>06:48:05 4/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326039.html">Re: Non-receding pic </a> - <b>Moonwards</b> <i>20:02:09 4/12/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326008.html">Receding pic 2 [PIC]</a> - <b>Moonwards</b> <i>17:18:18 4/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326007.html">Receding pic 1 [PIC]</a> - <b>Moonwards</b> <i>17:18:13 4/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326013.html">See message by Camacho</a> - <b>Moonwards</b> <i>03:12:44 4/06/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326006.html">Receding hairline? [PIC]</a> - <b>Camacho</b> <i>17:18:08 4/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326041.html">Re: Receding hairline? [PIC]</a> - <b>Finasteride</b> <i>12:23:07 4/14/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326040.html">Re: Receding hairline? [PIC]</a> - <b>Finasteride</b> <i>12:03:11 4/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325986.html">New Growth [PIC]</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>10:36:14 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326079.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>19:23:19 4/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326047.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:48:25 4/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326038.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>DanielR</b> <i>17:56:16 4/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326037.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:53:10 4/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326017.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>21:24:15 4/07/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326012.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>00:07:44 4/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/326004.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>23:04:08 4/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326005.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>05:16:59 4/05/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/326000.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:40:28 4/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326001.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:57:44 4/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326015.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>10:58:08 4/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325994.html">New/Old Growth </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>01:57:49 4/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325995.html">Re: New/Old Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>03:00:42 4/04/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325987.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:38:32 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325988.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:20:34 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325989.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>12:30:09 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325992.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>15:51:26 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325998.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:52:59 4/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325996.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:43:47 4/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325999.html">Re: New Growth </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>09:00:21 4/04/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325976.html">Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:40:28 4/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325977.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:17:52 4/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325980.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:26:53 4/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325981.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:51:07 4/02/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325978.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:18:05 4/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325982.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:56:45 4/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325983.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:27:04 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325990.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:10:48 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325993.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:22:39 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326003.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:45:32 4/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325997.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:58:34 4/04/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325984.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:15:09 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325991.html">Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>13:12:11 4/03/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325974.html">Happy Passover/Easter! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:35:59 3/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325975.html">Pesach Sameach!</a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>09:19:48 3/31/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325950.html">My long overdue return. Old member here. [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>19:21:14 3/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325985.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>10:36:09 4/03/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326011.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>18:55:42 4/05/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325979.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:24:32 4/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326010.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>18:48:05 4/05/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325969.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:41:20 3/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325973.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>22:42:18 3/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325967.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. [PIC]</a> - <b>White Mane</b> <i>18:07:08 3/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325968.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>White Mane</b> <i>18:10:04 3/29/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325971.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>12:57:56 3/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325966.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:02:22 3/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325970.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>11:59:40 3/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325972.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:24:52 3/30/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325962.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:06:17 3/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325964.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>13:56:34 3/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325959.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:00:27 3/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325963.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>12:05:44 3/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325958.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:13:22 3/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325961.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>09:48:51 3/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325952.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:13:02 3/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325957.html">Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>10:23:05 3/27/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325951.html">Hi ''Old'' member </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>01:51:55 3/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325956.html">Re: Hi ''Old'' member </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>10:11:58 3/27/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325948.html">3 months in</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:18:23 3/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325943.html">Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>JSFrodo</b> <i>17:44:41 3/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325960.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:28:21 3/28/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325953.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:14:40 3/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325955.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>JSFrodo</b> <i>08:49:54 3/27/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325946.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>18:16:43 3/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325954.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>JSFrodo</b> <i>08:48:37 3/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/326086.html">Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>15:32:23 4/29/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325940.html">Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Keith</b> <i>19:02:20 3/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325944.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:06:55 3/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325945.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:42:48 3/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325947.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>12:56:47 3/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325949.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:17:32 3/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325965.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Sebastien</b> <i>17:48:47 3/28/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325942.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>21:35:07 3/22/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325941.html">Re: Trims for your ends</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>17:08:20 3/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325929.html">Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>03:08:20 3/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325939.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Jogn</b> <i>03:03:17 3/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325936.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>10:36:45 3/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325934.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:19:04 3/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325938.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>18:31:17 3/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325932.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:13:46 3/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325933.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:16:32 3/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325937.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:22:36 3/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325931.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:50:27 3/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325930.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:41:07 3/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325935.html">Re: Signing Off For the Most Part</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>10:36:40 3/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325914.html">How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>17:28:26 3/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325924.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:41:49 3/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325921.html">Re: How Long Is Long? [PIC]</a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>06:01:44 3/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325923.html">Re: How Long Is Long? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:05:19 3/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325925.html">Re: How Long Is Long? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:34:40 3/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325926.html">Re: How Long Is Long? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:53:14 3/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325927.html">Re: How Long Is Long? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:36:22 3/13/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325917.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:35:06 3/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325915.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:15:10 3/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325920.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>06:01:39 3/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325918.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:38:31 3/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325916.html">Re: How Long Is Long?</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>21:57:59 3/08/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325913.html">March 2018 Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>10:32:36 3/08/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325890.html">Saying hello after many years! [PIC]</a> - <b>DJ</b> <i>16:03:36 2/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325919.html">Re: Saying hello after many years! </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>19:00:14 3/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325909.html">Re: Saying hello after many years! </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>05:23:57 3/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325894.html">Hello after many years! </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:53:41 2/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325868.html">Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>04:34:29 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327059.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Louis Smith</b> <i>18:08:01 6/10/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/326002.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:02:19 4/04/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325912.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>John</b> <i>10:00:34 3/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325891.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Long Hair Boy</b> <i>17:27:07 2/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325902.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>17:03:30 2/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325906.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Long Hair Boy</b> <i>02:59:24 3/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325910.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>15:03:22 3/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325911.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Long Hair Boy</b> <i>20:03:41 3/04/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325879.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:20:45 2/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325897.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>16:26:53 2/28/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325903.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:37:50 2/28/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325876.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:36:57 2/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325898.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>16:26:58 2/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325875.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:59:28 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325899.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>16:27:03 2/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325871.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>16:17:49 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325900.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>16:27:08 2/28/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325869.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:16:40 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325901.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>Allie</b> <i>16:27:13 2/28/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325878.html">Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>07:46:54 2/26/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325867.html">You might remember me [PIC]</a> - <b>Jade</b> <i>04:34:24 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325896.html">Re: You might remember me </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>16:26:47 2/28/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325885.html">Re: You might remember me </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:58:52 2/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325884.html">Re: You might remember me </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>03:01:18 2/27/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325874.html">Re: You might remember me </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:55:30 2/24/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325872.html">Re: You might remember me </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:09:37 2/24/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325851.html">Autistic boy with long hair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:42:33 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325858.html">Re: Autistic boy with long hair</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>17:27:43 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325863.html">Re: Autistic boy with long hair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>22:51:43 2/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325846.html">Ankle length video</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:29:19 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325922.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>12:09:02 3/11/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325880.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:24:59 2/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325857.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>ricrac</b> <i>17:27:38 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325870.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>16:16:09 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325873.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:15:00 2/24/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325877.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:42:16 2/25/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325847.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:36:17 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325848.html">Re: Ankle length video</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>21:16:08 2/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325832.html">Just Checking In [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>22:57:39 2/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325841.html"> Checking In </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:49:08 2/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325836.html">Re: Just Checking In </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:09:54 2/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325834.html">Re: Just Checking In </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>04:53:17 2/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325829.html">Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:59:53 2/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325855.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>16:58:28 2/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325838.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:17:18 2/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325835.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:04:33 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325839.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:20:15 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325854.html">Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:49:03 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325862.html">Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:01:52 2/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325860.html">Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:32:31 2/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325842.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:11:18 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325849.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:15:25 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325852.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:11:41 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325853.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:41:38 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325859.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:32:26 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325861.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:48:37 2/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325865.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>12:52:11 2/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325866.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:56:59 2/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325845.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:14:07 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325856.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:05:36 2/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325844.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:06:17 2/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325843.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:01:19 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325850.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:19:03 2/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325833.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>04:49:37 2/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325840.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:21:49 2/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325837.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:51:38 2/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325830.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>19:44:30 2/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325831.html">Re: Gender </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:11:34 2/18/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325823.html">BOY VERY LONG HAIR</a> - <b>SAM</b> <i>17:02:53 2/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325881.html">Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:26:21 2/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325828.html">Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>18:59:46 2/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325826.html">Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:17:32 2/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325822.html">6 weeks in..</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>12:45:52 2/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325824.html">Re: 6 weeks in..</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:54:19 2/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325825.html">Re: 6 weeks in..</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>08:28:49 2/14/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325818.html">I'm Back [PIC]</a> - <b>Robert Johnson</b> <i>21:49:08 2/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325827.html">Re: I'm Back </a> - <b>Bob Johnson</b> <i>16:08:10 2/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325821.html">Welcome Back </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>11:29:06 2/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325820.html">Re: I'm Back </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:16:39 2/13/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325813.html">1790's [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:13:05 2/06/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325776.html">Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:32:35 1/22/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325814.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>18:16:02 2/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325815.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:48:36 2/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325816.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>22:31:41 2/07/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325811.html">Bryan Braman: Super Bowl 52 Champion</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>04:07:05 2/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325812.html">Re: Bryan Braman: Super Bowl 52 Champion</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:48:48 2/05/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325808.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>01:28:50 2/02/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325797.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>09:14:14 1/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325795.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>08:44:07 1/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325792.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:55:05 1/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325780.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>05:33:37 1/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325777.html">Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:33:48 1/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325748.html">Long Hairs United</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>20:16:57 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325749.html">Re: Long Hairs United</a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>03:29:53 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325773.html">Re: Long Hairs United</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>20:12:28 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325774.html">Re: Long Hairs United</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>23:07:10 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325712.html">An Update of Sorts [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>14:24:14 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325864.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>09:39:51 2/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325768.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:44:08 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325779.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:33:36 1/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325793.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>07:20:22 1/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325796.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:51:16 1/25/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325804.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:14:09 1/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325805.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:01:54 1/31/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325806.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>10:16:02 2/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325807.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:07:54 2/01/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325809.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>01:33:10 2/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325810.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:58:31 2/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325723.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:04:40 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325758.html">Re: An Update of Sorts </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:23:36 1/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325745.html">my mirror</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:44:32 1/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325713.html">Family Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>14:25:22 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325882.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:30:20 2/26/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325928.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>17:11:47 3/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325769.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:46:50 1/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325744.html">Family </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:41:00 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325757.html">Re: Family </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:21:53 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325739.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>06:53:54 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325756.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:21:12 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325759.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:28:41 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325733.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>00:46:36 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325755.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:18:16 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325771.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:00:36 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325772.html">tip to see new posts effectively</a> - <b>_zak_</b> <i>18:12:39 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325817.html">Re: tip to see new posts effectively</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:08:23 2/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325775.html">Re: tip to see new posts effectively</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>04:40:50 1/22/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325726.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:39:43 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325754.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:15:39 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325721.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:36:36 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325753.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:13:59 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325770.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>09:17:15 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325715.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:31:40 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325751.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:09:35 1/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325734.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:09:22 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325752.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:12:01 1/21/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325737.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:53:26 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325742.html">Re: Family Photo </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:23:04 1/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325702.html">Update january 2018 [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>03:41:25 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325819.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Robert Johnson</b> <i>21:49:13 2/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325740.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:02:22 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325767.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:35:42 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325724.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:13:40 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325766.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>vincent</b> <i>08:33:36 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325722.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>20:36:59 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325765.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:28:49 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325714.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:14:24 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325764.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:27:51 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325707.html">Great Update</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:45:46 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325763.html">Re: Great Update</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:16:57 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325706.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>05:47:28 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325762.html">Re: Update january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>08:14:41 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325705.html">Length february 2016 [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>04:01:37 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325704.html">Me and my dog on vacation in Finland [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>03:48:50 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325703.html">Picture rotated january 2018 [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>03:43:00 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325790.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>10:07:53 1/23/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325791.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:30:34 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325789.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>10:07:52 1/23/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325746.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>19:56:02 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325760.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:04:56 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325708.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:22:47 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325761.html">Re: Picture rotated january 2018 </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:13:05 1/21/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325690.html">Inversion method</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>10:43:23 1/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325801.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>11:27:21 1/30/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325802.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>12:45:10 1/30/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325725.html">Never eat spinach after noon...</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:39:38 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325743.html">Re: Never eat spinach after noon...</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>10:39:33 1/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325691.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:08:34 1/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325798.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>00:47:38 1/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325799.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:32:26 1/27/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325800.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:15:44 1/27/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325692.html">Re: Inversion method</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>01:31:15 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325687.html">Present and accounted for :) ... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>03:08:18 1/18/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325747.html">Re: Present and accounted for :) ... </a> - <b>A</b> <i>20:00:35 1/20/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325727.html">Re: Present and accounted for :) ... </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>22:54:21 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325709.html">Re: Present and accounted for :) ... </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:24:35 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325689.html">Re: Present and accounted for :) ... </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:19:40 1/18/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325688.html">Re: Present and accounted for :) ... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:16:42 1/18/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325668.html">Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>22:10:13 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325883.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:34:25 2/26/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325735.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>04:43:12 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325736.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>05:44:00 1/20/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325728.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>22:58:46 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325720.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>20:10:21 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325719.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>20:10:04 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325677.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>14:07:51 1/17/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325675.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>20:17:45 1/16/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325685.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:13:55 1/17/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325673.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>06:16:42 1/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325672.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:13:12 1/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325671.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>03:03:09 1/16/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325669.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>22:58:54 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325676.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:58:32 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325678.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:26:10 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325679.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:28:13 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325680.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:30:07 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325681.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:32:18 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325682.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:46:09 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325683.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>15:07:11 1/17/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325684.html">Re: Sleeping with long hair </a> - <b>ElNico</b> <i>15:25:22 1/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325661.html">Novalis [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:52:49 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325666.html">Re: Novalis </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:51:00 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325670.html">Re: Novalis </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>23:07:21 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325643.html">Growing from a bowlcut </a> - <b>Mic</b> <i>08:10:44 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325667.html">Re: Growing from a bowlcut </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:28:19 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325718.html">Re: Growing from a bowlcut </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>20:04:11 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325658.html">Re: Growing from a bowlcut </a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>02:52:38 1/15/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325647.html">Re: Growing from a bowlcut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>14:04:24 1/14/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325633.html">Hair system?</a> - <b>Sam</b> <i>04:30:42 1/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325627.html">It's been a while, but I belong in here again [PIC]</a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>16:29:38 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325729.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>23:01:55 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325788.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>10:05:07 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325717.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>19:57:55 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325787.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>10:04:02 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325660.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>longhairedone Steve</b> <i>03:12:21 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325786.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>10:00:31 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325657.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>02:42:49 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325785.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>09:56:01 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325649.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:07:37 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325784.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>09:54:36 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325645.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>08:33:58 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325783.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>09:52:38 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325636.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:52:59 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325782.html">Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>09:50:56 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325629.html">It's been a while, indeed </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>22:53:38 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325781.html">Re: It's been a while, indeed </a> - <b>Walter</b> <i>09:43:15 1/23/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325622.html">It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>09:14:34 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325803.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:33:59 1/30/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325730.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>23:12:46 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325738.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:12:43 1/20/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325741.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:41:58 1/20/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325711.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>14:12:27 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325716.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken In SF</b> <i>19:48:12 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325648.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:04:03 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325701.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:10:03 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325646.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>08:37:23 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325700.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:58 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325642.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:14:29 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325699.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:52 1/19/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325710.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:52:10 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325639.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>13:12:04 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325698.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:47 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325651.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:45:52 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325664.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>12:04:17 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325674.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>20:11:18 1/16/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325644.html">'ol home week</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>08:14:23 1/14/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325665.html">Re: 'ol home week</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>12:06:49 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325634.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:41:49 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325697.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:42 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325632.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>00:09:48 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325696.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:36 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325626.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:42:49 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325695.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:31 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325625.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:55:04 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325694.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:25 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325640.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>13:14:36 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325655.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>02:34:49 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325637.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:44:43 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325654.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>02:33:05 1/15/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325662.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:12:23 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325635.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:46:33 1/13/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325653.html">Re: It's been a long time!</a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>02:30:38 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325630.html">you too...</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>22:56:21 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325652.html">Re: you too...</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>02:26:58 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325624.html">.....Much too long</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:21:16 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325693.html">Re: .....Much too long</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>03:09:19 1/19/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325621.html">Hello</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>06:41:05 1/12/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325731.html">Re: Hello</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>23:15:50 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325656.html">Re: Hello</a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>02:39:39 1/15/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325631.html">Re: Hello</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>00:05:38 1/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325628.html">Re: Hello</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:33:28 1/12/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325623.html">Welcome</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:17:39 1/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325607.html">Periodic Update [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>09:07:43 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325732.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>23:29:19 1/19/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325659.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Vincent </b> <i>02:58:43 1/15/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325650.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:41:10 1/14/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325638.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:49:59 1/13/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325615.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:11:44 1/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325617.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>03:44:33 1/11/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325618.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:14:42 1/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325611.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:58:11 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325663.html">Re: MLHH Clergy Sailing Together! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:24:19 1/15/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325610.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:24:34 1/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325609.html">Re: Periodic Update </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>10:33:03 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325613.html">Re: Ashqelon </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:25:02 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325614.html">Re: Ashqelon </a> - <b>Yomaku</b> <i>23:42:17 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325616.html">Re: Ashqelon </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>03:41:30 1/11/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325608.html">Incredible Update !!</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:19:06 1/10/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325612.html">Okay, Twist My Arm! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:17:48 1/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325584.html">Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>05:29:45 1/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325599.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:27:00 1/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325602.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>03:08:34 1/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325603.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:02:40 1/08/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325595.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:33:06 1/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325601.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>03:08:28 1/08/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325586.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:05:41 1/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325592.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:41:09 1/07/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325588.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>13:26:34 1/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325605.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:29:24 1/10/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325604.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:14:06 1/09/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325600.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>01:32:09 1/08/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325686.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>23:58:51 1/17/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325585.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:22:04 1/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325589.html">Re: Interested in growing my hair</a> - <b>Avi</b> <i>13:26:39 1/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325558.html">Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Wade Garret</b> <i>14:53:54 12/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325559.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:31:50 12/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325560.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>03:09:13 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325561.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:32:06 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325562.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:02:14 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325563.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>07:45:45 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325572.html">Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>14:42:24 1/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325548.html">Happy December</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>12:13:51 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325557.html">Re: Happy December</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>02:47:46 12/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325573.html">Re: Happy December</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>14:55:51 1/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325606.html">Re: Winter in the Holy Land</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:15:48 1/10/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325552.html">Re: Happy December</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:24:31 12/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325551.html">Re: Happy December</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:01:31 12/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325541.html">Growing it Out</a> - <b>myelin</b> <i>10:48:37 12/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325545.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:03:05 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325553.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:29:47 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325571.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>10:46:48 12/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325574.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:46:54 1/02/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325576.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:37:43 1/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325577.html">Re: Growing it Out [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:15:33 1/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325579.html">Re: Growing it Out </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>10:14:44 1/05/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325578.html">After cut [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:17:06 1/04/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325580.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>10:17:43 1/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325581.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>11:24:55 1/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325582.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>15:38:43 1/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325583.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:43:01 1/05/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325587.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>09:34:54 1/06/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325591.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:06:14 1/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325594.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>11:11:36 1/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325597.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:14:30 1/07/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325596.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>13:08:20 1/07/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325593.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>El Nico</b> <i>11:00:04 1/07/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325598.html">Re: After cut </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:16:07 1/07/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325555.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>13:20:42 12/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325556.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:23:56 12/23/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325542.html">Re: Growing it Out</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:19:54 12/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325531.html">5 year anniversary [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:46:59 12/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325794.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>dk</b> <i>08:44:02 1/25/18</i>
<li><a href="messages/325537.html">Re: 5 year anniversary [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>10:27:40 12/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325750.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Locopelo</b> <i>05:06:55 1/21/18</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325778.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:31:45 1/22/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325550.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Duncan Roy</b> <i>18:34:43 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325569.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:59:32 12/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325546.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:08:14 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325568.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:56:53 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325641.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>22:59:07 1/13/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325544.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>17:18:53 12/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325543.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:44:17 12/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325567.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:53:20 12/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325540.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>05:05:58 12/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325566.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:51:45 12/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325539.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:48:59 12/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325565.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:45:17 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325570.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>00:26:56 12/28/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325538.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:35:50 12/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325564.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>17:37:22 12/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325575.html">Re: 5 year anniversary </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:54:24 1/02/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325532.html">Re: 5 year anniversary [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>18:48:55 12/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325519.html">Curly long hair?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>11:05:56 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325533.html">Re: Curly long hair?</a> - <b>Lloyd Repton</b> <i>03:05:05 12/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325521.html">Re: Curly long hair?</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>14:46:53 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325530.html">Re: Curly long hair?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>10:11:27 12/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325620.html">Re: Curly long hair?</a> - <b>as</b> <i>06:40:13 1/12/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325518.html">hair update</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>09:34:25 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325549.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>13:26:37 12/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325520.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:39:51 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325525.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Mogh</b> <i>19:22:46 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325526.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:08:29 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325534.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:16:19 12/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325535.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:07:09 12/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325536.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:26:09 12/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325547.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:22:08 12/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325554.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:05:35 12/23/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325529.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>23:43:49 12/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325524.html">Re: hair update</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:18:12 12/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325522.html">Russian men with long hair</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>14:54:39 12/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325512.html">News article</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>14:02:07 12/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325514.html">Re: News article</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:50:06 12/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325516.html">Re: News article</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>15:25:37 12/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325509.html">Hair Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>03:03:41 12/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325510.html">Re: Hair Progress </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:39:36 12/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325513.html">Re: Hair Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>16:45:40 12/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325590.html">Re: Hair Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>23:04:26 1/06/18</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325502.html">2018 Hairforce Kalender</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:04:56 12/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325505.html">Re: 2018 Hairforce Kalender</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>09:25:31 12/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325497.html">Fantasy</a> - <b>leggawt</b> <i>16:34:52 12/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325504.html">Re: Fantasy</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>05:36:08 12/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325503.html">Re: Fantasy</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>13:50:19 12/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325507.html">Re: Fantasy</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:22:56 12/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325508.html">I hate Tangled for a personal yet ironic reason.</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>19:13:15 12/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325511.html">Re: I hate Tangled for a personal yet ironic reason.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:57:29 12/05/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325499.html">Re: Fantasy</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:02:10 12/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325506.html">Re: Fantasy</a> - <b>Pete</b> <i>09:25:36 12/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325494.html">Hi, everybody!</a> - <b>Pete</b> <i>05:54:37 12/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325495.html">sorry, bad links, photos!</a> - <b>Pete</b> <i>05:56:25 12/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325501.html">Re: sorry, bad links, photos!</a> - <b>John</b> <i>10:43:01 12/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325500.html">Re: sorry, bad links, photos!</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>10:42:56 12/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325498.html">Re: sorry, bad links, photos!</a> - <b>longhair511</b> <i>16:34:57 12/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325496.html">Re: sorry, bad links, photos!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:55:34 12/01/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325491.html">Songs about hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:57:10 11/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325523.html">Re: Songs about hair</a> - <b>Jacob U</b> <i>15:10:47 12/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325528.html">Re: Songs about hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:20:43 12/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325527.html">Re: Songs about hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:16:46 12/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325492.html">Re: Songs about hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:08:56 11/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325493.html">Re: Songs about hair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:10:49 11/19/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325475.html">A video game admiring long haired men?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>12:31:30 11/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325481.html">Re: A video game admiring long haired men?</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>21:29:36 11/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325477.html">Re: A video game admiring long haired men?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>17:03:28 11/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325474.html">Deleted YouTube videos?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>12:31:25 11/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325484.html">Re: Deleted YouTube videos?</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>04:43:45 11/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325486.html">Alex Wooley?</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>17:18:47 11/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325488.html">Re: Alex Wooley?</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>03:10:27 11/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325473.html">Conversion to long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Ripp</b> <i>12:31:19 11/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325489.html">Re: Conversion to long hair </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:44:45 11/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325485.html">Re: Conversion to long hair </a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>13:30:04 11/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325478.html">Re: Conversion to long hair </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>20:02:42 11/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325476.html">Re: Conversion to long hair </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:21:40 11/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325468.html">Knotted Hair</a> - <b>Atticus</b> <i>17:30:43 10/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325490.html">Re: Knotted Hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:03:08 11/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325463.html">Four Years [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:48:26 10/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325515.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:51:51 12/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325471.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:58:29 11/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325469.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:05:12 10/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325470.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:21:10 11/01/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325467.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>James</b> <i>07:30:20 10/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325466.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:47:23 10/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325464.html">Re: Four Years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:54:00 10/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325456.html">Well I finally cut my hair.</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>03:13:17 10/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325465.html">Re: Well I finally cut my hair.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:45:06 10/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325479.html">Re: Well I finally cut my hair.</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>03:09:42 11/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325462.html">Re: Well I finally cut my hair.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>10:59:22 10/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325454.html">76 Month Hair Update (video) [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:31:51 10/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325472.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>10:38:41 11/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325458.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:58:42 10/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325460.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:55:41 10/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325457.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:43:12 10/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325461.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>17:08:35 10/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325455.html">Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video) </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>23:44:31 10/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325459.html">Thank you, Scott! (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:49:12 10/25/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325450.html">My Hair Growth</a> - <b>HandSizeLarge</b> <i>08:39:31 10/19/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325446.html">update/thoughts [PIC]</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>12:51:59 10/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325453.html">I don't get it either</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>04:43:13 10/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325448.html">one more time, hopefully right side up photo [PIC]</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>12:57:15 10/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325449.html">Re: one more time, hopefully right side up photo </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>13:04:14 10/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325451.html">Re: one more time, hopefully right side up photo </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>15:03:14 10/19/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325444.html">Curly Long Hair </a> - <b>Atticus </b> <i>10:55:50 10/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325452.html">Re: Curly Long Hair </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>21:23:24 10/19/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325445.html">Re: Curly Long Hair </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>12:29:46 10/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325433.html">Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:55:34 10/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325487.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>20:01:03 11/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325440.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>10:10:57 10/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325441.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>11:03:17 10/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325442.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>SomeRandomGuy</b> <i>09:11:27 10/16/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325443.html">moderating</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:13:43 10/16/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325439.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>21:47:57 10/10/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325436.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:19:12 10/09/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325434.html">Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:15:52 10/09/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325420.html">Las Vegas</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:33:45 10/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325421.html">Re: Las Vegas</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:56:26 10/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325426.html">WHY ??</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>08:36:00 10/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/327261.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:22:53 11/07/19</i>
<li><a href="messages/325428.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:14:11 10/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325430.html">...delurking...</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:24:33 10/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325431.html">Re: ...delurking...</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:52:20 10/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325427.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:05:59 10/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325429.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>10:11:49 10/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325435.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>13:15:24 10/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325437.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:19:40 10/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325438.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:29:48 10/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325517.html">Re: WHY ??</a> - <b>df</b> <i>09:34:00 12/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325415.html">Hairy Boulder!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>09:33:55 9/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325417.html">Re: Hairy Boulder!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>10:06:40 9/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325418.html">Re: Hillel and Shammai</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>21:01:40 9/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325419.html">Re: Hillel and Shammai</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:00:32 10/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325422.html">Re: Hillel and Shammai</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>18:12:14 10/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325424.html">Re: Hillel and Shammai</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:12:22 10/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325425.html">Re: Visit to Israel</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:07:45 10/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325423.html">Re: Hillel and Shammai</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:04:45 10/02/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325416.html">Re: Hairy Boulder!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:18:37 9/30/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325410.html">Bad Hair Day [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>14:24:11 9/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325413.html">Re: Bad Hair Day </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>11:53:56 9/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325412.html">Re: Bad Hair Day </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:39:59 9/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325411.html">Re: Bad Hair Day </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>05:35:18 9/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325407.html">Some great long hair</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>07:51:24 9/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325414.html">Re: Some great long hair</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>12:27:25 9/28/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325403.html">Update Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>16:59:21 9/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325409.html">Re: Update Photo </a> - <b>James</b> <i>14:22:06 9/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325406.html">Re: Update Photo </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>02:16:37 9/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325408.html">Re: Update Photo </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>09:07:20 9/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325405.html">Re: Update Photo </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>20:32:23 9/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325404.html">Re: Update Photo </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:24:53 9/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325377.html">Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]</a> - <b>Grant Sander</b> <i>03:10:04 9/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325388.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>04:47:34 9/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325390.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:42:00 9/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325392.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>03:15:29 9/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325402.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST 4-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:10:22 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325401.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST 4-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:08:32 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325400.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST 16-color mode, no dithering [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:06:28 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325399.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST 16-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:38:20 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325398.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST monochrome mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:23:54 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325397.html">Guilherme S., Atari ST monochrome mode, no dithering [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:21:34 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325396.html">Guilherme S., C 64 multicolor mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:18:11 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325395.html">Guilherme S., C 64 multicolor mode, no dithering [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:14:35 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325394.html">Guilherme S., C 64 blocks mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:08:03 9/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325393.html">Guilherme S., C 64 blocks mode, no dithering [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:03:51 9/18/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325389.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:22:51 9/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325383.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:11:44 9/14/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325386.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:28:57 9/15/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325384.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>18:46:17 9/14/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325387.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>03:17:19 9/16/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325385.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>10:49:28 9/15/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325382.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:44:01 9/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325619.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>as</b> <i>06:39:27 1/12/18</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325381.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:35:49 9/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325380.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:59:08 9/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325379.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:53:13 9/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325378.html">Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:36:58 9/13/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325369.html">Hairline Receding? [PIC]</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>13:37:02 9/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325370.html">Another Pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>13:38:18 9/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325371.html">Re: Another Pic </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>15:54:24 9/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325372.html">Re: Another Pic </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>08:54:44 9/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325373.html">Re: Another Pic </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>13:14:53 9/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325376.html">Re: Another Pic </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>12:53:44 9/11/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325354.html">11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:03:28 8/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325374.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>05:29:23 9/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325375.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:51:18 9/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325356.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:11:11 8/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325357.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:36:02 8/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325358.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>17:53:56 8/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325361.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:46:38 8/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325362.html">Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:51:00 8/31/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325353.html">People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:30:57 8/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325360.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:09:21 8/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325363.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:06:46 9/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325364.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>13:14:45 9/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325368.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>11:43:36 9/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325366.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>05:58:41 9/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325365.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:29:15 9/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325367.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:00:09 9/02/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325355.html">Re: People of Wal Mart</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:34:53 8/29/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325350.html">Does anyone know</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:20:42 8/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325352.html">Re: Does anyone know</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:51:13 8/29/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325327.html">Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules [PIC]</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>11:01:29 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325337.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:02:06 8/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325335.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:11:18 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325336.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:24:37 8/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325332.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>18:17:43 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325340.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:27:28 8/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325331.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:46:44 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325339.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>12:24:48 8/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325343.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:43:51 8/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325344.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:48:52 8/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325349.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:27:47 8/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325329.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:27:30 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325341.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>19:36:29 8/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325347.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:24:04 8/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325346.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:41:21 8/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325348.html">Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:26:09 8/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325317.html">Going bald? [PIC]</a> - <b>Joggle</b> <i>17:38:30 8/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325325.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>23:20:29 8/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325319.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:09:40 8/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325318.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:00:10 8/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325320.html">Re: Going bald? [PIC]</a> - <b>Joggle</b> <i>05:19:38 8/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325342.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Joggle</b> <i>21:21:19 8/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325345.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:52:25 8/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325351.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>13:55:42 8/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325359.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:48:53 8/30/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325334.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>19:51:07 8/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325333.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:10:59 8/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325324.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>17:22:42 8/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325323.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>08:54:59 8/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325322.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:13:16 8/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325321.html">Re: Going bald? </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:11:28 8/23/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325314.html">74 Month Update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:06:50 8/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325338.html">Re: 74 Month Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:17:23 8/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325326.html">Re: 74 Month Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:27:50 8/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325316.html">Re: 74 Month Update </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>06:43:50 8/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325315.html">Re: 74 Month Update </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>17:36:08 8/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325296.html">37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day [PIC]</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>14:09:02 8/16/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325308.html">Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:57:48 8/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325304.html">Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day </a> - <b>longhairedone Steve</b> <i>03:26:51 8/19/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325301.html">Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day </a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>02:42:02 8/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325302.html">Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>19:31:07 8/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325303.html">Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>23:22:49 8/17/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325295.html">Compliments</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>10:59:08 8/16/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325307.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:56:32 8/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325305.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:03:03 8/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325298.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:06:44 8/16/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325300.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>02:40:36 8/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325297.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>14:12:32 8/16/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325299.html">Re: Compliments</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>02:39:30 8/17/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325270.html">Hair Update-Back [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:20:05 8/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325328.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>11:07:12 8/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325330.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:34:21 8/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325309.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:03:23 8/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325313.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:06:06 8/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325291.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:27:44 8/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325293.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:02:13 8/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325290.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:49:22 8/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325292.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:57:07 8/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325287.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>09:26:42 8/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325288.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:46:12 8/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325285.html">Update</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>05:45:14 8/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325286.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:10:33 8/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325277.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:18:48 8/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325279.html">Re: Hair Update-Back </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:39:22 8/05/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325271.html">Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:21:31 8/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325272.html">Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:44:38 8/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325278.html">Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:31:37 8/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325283.html">Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:29:47 8/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325284.html">Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>12:00:17 8/06/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325268.html">Kelan Hughes</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>08:49:05 8/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325263.html">Hair update---38 and a half month journey. [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>14:21:44 8/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325310.html">Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey. </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:05:48 8/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325280.html">Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:44:50 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325273.html">Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:47:23 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325265.html">My kids hair progress ;) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>14:43:15 8/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325281.html">Re: My kids hair progress ;) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:49:49 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325266.html">Re: My kids hair progress ;) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:07:11 8/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325264.html">2nd pic [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>14:22:49 8/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325267.html">Re: 2nd pic </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:09:21 8/02/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325244.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:48:07 7/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325432.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>16:16:00 10/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325311.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:09:49 8/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325282.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:55:12 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325274.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:50:24 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325260.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:55:04 7/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325259.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>James</b> <i>08:26:16 7/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325258.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:56:19 7/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325255.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>00:59:59 7/29/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325254.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>12:45:19 7/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325253.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>09:45:35 7/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325251.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:28:42 7/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325250.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>09:47:08 7/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325249.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>20:54:03 7/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325248.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>10:21:08 7/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325247.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>10:11:09 7/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325246.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>09:28:37 7/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325245.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:51:22 7/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325235.html">Checking in..havent posted in a while [PIC]</a> - <b>Gordy</b> <i>06:48:37 7/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325312.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>03:07:56 8/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325275.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:55:05 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325261.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:01:51 7/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325252.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:31:33 7/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325239.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>10:01:45 7/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325238.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:52:25 7/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325236.html">Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while </a> - <b>Joe </b> <i>17:55:16 7/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325225.html">growing hair for 2 years [PIC]</a> - <b>yeshello</b> <i>17:40:23 7/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325289.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:54:28 8/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325276.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:01:47 8/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325262.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:48:53 7/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325234.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>18:44:54 7/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325232.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>14:44:55 7/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325230.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:07:09 7/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325228.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>13:14:19 7/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325226.html">Re: growing hair for 2 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:04:43 7/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325218.html">REALLY ???</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>11:50:29 7/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325223.html">Re: REALLY ???</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:04:43 7/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325219.html">Re: REALLY ???</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>16:07:26 7/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325215.html">Home Free and Long Hair</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>23:06:06 7/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325212.html">GOT</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:14:52 7/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325229.html">Maybe someday</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>13:16:54 7/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325231.html">Re: Maybe someday</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:56:31 7/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325256.html">Re: Maybe someday</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>01:03:17 7/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325257.html">Re: Maybe someday</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:32:16 7/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325294.html">Re: Maybe someday</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>21:30:38 8/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325306.html">Re: Maybe someday</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:18:22 8/20/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325214.html">Re: GOT</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>13:14:37 7/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325213.html">Re: GOT</a> - <b>TheLongairs</b> <i>21:27:13 7/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325211.html">A must follow on Instagram [PIC]</a> - <b>Longhairfan</b> <i>08:15:26 7/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325208.html">Below his waist</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:16:32 6/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325209.html">Re: Below his waist</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>03:07:58 6/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325210.html">Re: Below his waist</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>08:39:23 6/30/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325175.html">Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:24:53 6/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325227.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>aaaaa</b> <i>04:56:16 7/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325233.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:11:07 7/14/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325199.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:59:08 6/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325185.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>07:56:31 6/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325188.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:03:44 6/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325198.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:52:49 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325197.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:51:22 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325196.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:49:59 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325195.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:48:44 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325194.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:47:27 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325193.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:46:13 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325192.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:44:52 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325191.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:23:04 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325190.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:18:13 6/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325189.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:16:16 6/21/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325182.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>TheLonghairs</b> <i>03:08:26 6/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325186.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:00:40 6/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325180.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:40:51 6/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325187.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:01:53 6/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325179.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>12:39:47 6/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325178.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:47:54 6/19/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325177.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>sj</b> <i>16:26:01 6/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325164.html">Hair on Board! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>01:43:02 6/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325200.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:09:06 6/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325183.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>TheLonghairs</b> <i>03:08:33 6/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325184.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>05:35:03 6/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325171.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>04:50:20 6/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325174.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>05:25:25 6/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325176.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>15:03:51 6/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325201.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:15:03 6/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325204.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>11:18:35 6/24/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325165.html">Re: Hair on Board! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:28:52 6/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325157.html">Six Year Hair Update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>07:36:59 6/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325202.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:40:55 6/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325222.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>04:47:33 7/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325181.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:46:30 6/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325221.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>04:44:02 7/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325168.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>14:44:49 6/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325173.html">Thanks Scott! (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>05:01:55 6/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325166.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:34:06 6/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325172.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>05:00:24 6/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325163.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>TheLonghairs</b> <i>23:47:39 6/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325170.html">Re: Six Year Hair Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>04:47:50 6/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325158.html">Six Years of Hair</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:09:03 6/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325220.html">Thank you, Walter! (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>04:31:31 7/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325147.html">37 month journey ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>09:55:50 6/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325224.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>03:16:05 7/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325203.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:49:03 6/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325167.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:45:22 6/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325159.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:30:16 6/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325156.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:54:04 6/16/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325155.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>TheLonghairs</b> <i>02:57:43 6/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325152.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>09:34:44 6/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325153.html">Re: 37 month journey ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:03:20 6/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325154.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:03:58 6/13/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325151.html">journey ! </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>03:32:32 6/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325150.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>18:18:15 6/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325149.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>Mike</b> <i>17:54:09 6/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325148.html">Re: 37 month journey ! </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>15:12:35 6/12/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325142.html">Wheel of Fortune ponytail</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>18:47:59 6/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325144.html">Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>15:17:00 6/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325146.html">Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:56:07 6/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325145.html">Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:59:41 6/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325143.html">Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:45:28 6/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325140.html">Hippie J video</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>07:22:45 6/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325237.html">Re: Hippie J video</a> - <b>tomm</b> <i>18:16:22 7/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325205.html">Re: Hippie J video</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>18:14:52 6/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325169.html">Re: Hippie J video</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>20:33:35 6/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325160.html">Re: Hippie J video</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:36:18 6/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325141.html">Re: Hippie J video</a> - <b>John</b> <i>05:12:07 6/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325134.html"> Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017</a> - <b>FITNESSDAVID</b> <i>04:00:50 6/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325135.html">Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>07:31:05 6/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325137.html">Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>04:55:32 6/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325139.html">Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:09:44 6/04/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325136.html">Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 </a> - <b>FITNESSDAVID</b> <i>04:55:26 6/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325138.html">Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:08:01 6/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325126.html">Interesting article I came across</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>04:52:01 5/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325133.html">Re: Interesting article I came across</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>03:58:03 6/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325131.html">Re: Interesting article I came across</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>02:58:39 5/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325129.html">Re: Interesting article I came across</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>22:13:54 5/30/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325111.html">Overdue Update [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:25:49 5/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325161.html">Re: Overdue Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:17:15 6/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325112.html">Re: Overdue Update [PIC]</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>22:29:11 5/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325117.html">Re: Overdue Update </a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>02:09:30 5/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325113.html">Re: Overdue Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:22:11 5/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325114.html">Re: Samson and Delilah </a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>00:51:42 5/23/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325096.html">Kelly Olynyk</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:11:00 5/15/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325217.html">Re: Kelly Olynyk</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:16:41 7/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325107.html">Re: Kelly Olynyk</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>10:08:59 5/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325108.html">Re: Kelly Olynyk</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:42:56 5/21/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325085.html">Interesting article about hair bands</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>03:06:44 5/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325097.html">Re: Interesting article about hair bands</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>16:21:02 5/16/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325095.html">Re: Interesting article about hair bands</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:23:52 5/14/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325084.html">Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>03:06:37 5/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325128.html">In short: yes.</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>15:06:48 5/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325127.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>04:52:06 5/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325099.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>07:54:13 5/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325100.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>17:07:28 5/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325102.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:22:41 5/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325104.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>08:32:17 5/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325105.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:09:38 5/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325119.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:08:56 5/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325120.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:12:55 5/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325121.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:59:15 5/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325124.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:29:17 5/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325130.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>22:18:55 5/30/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325122.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>18:00:39 5/26/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325109.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>03:18:19 5/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325106.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>19:14:27 5/20/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325101.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>07:18:13 5/19/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325087.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:20:58 5/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325086.html">Re: Long and Short Hair history and question</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:26:27 5/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325071.html">Question for everyone</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>18:27:35 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325132.html">I think it is, but...</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>20:06:16 6/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325098.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>16:28:23 5/16/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325094.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>TheLonghairs</b> <i>17:17:15 5/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325090.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:24:34 5/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325092.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:52:43 5/09/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325091.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:31:01 5/09/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325077.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:05:18 5/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325082.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:14:06 5/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325076.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>00:28:05 5/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325103.html">Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>03:23:42 5/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325110.html">Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>18:33:46 5/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325115.html">Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:03:35 5/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325116.html">Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!</a> - <b>doninisrael</b> <i>05:35:15 5/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325118.html">Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:32:11 5/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325123.html">That was then, this is now</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>05:33:57 5/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325125.html">Re: That was then, this is now</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:01:27 5/28/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325073.html">Re: Question for everyone</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:14:03 5/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325063.html">The Synagogue is Going Longhair! [PIC]</a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>04:10:48 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325067.html">Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:08:57 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325069.html">Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair! </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>07:35:04 5/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325064.html">Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair! </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>04:16:47 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325066.html">Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:07:27 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325068.html">Re: Life in Israel </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>07:24:32 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325078.html">Re: Life in Israel </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:35:26 5/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325081.html">Re: Life in Israel </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:05:01 5/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325061.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>03:40:06 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325162.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:30:09 6/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325207.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>11:53:41 6/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325062.html">Picture rotated [PIC]</a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>03:42:02 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325089.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:58:47 5/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325093.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>13:06:24 5/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325075.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:09:04 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325079.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:42:16 5/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325074.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>20:44:56 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325080.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>08:43:51 5/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325065.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:56:55 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325070.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>13:21:33 5/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325083.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>13:41:41 5/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325088.html">Re: Picture rotated </a> - <b>Vincent</b> <i>09:07:44 5/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325049.html">Then and now [PIC]</a> - <b>Brad</b> <i>11:06:55 4/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325060.html">Re: Then and now </a> - <b>John In Denver</b> <i>12:47:23 5/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325057.html">Re: Then and now </a> - <b>RossRS</b> <i>13:55:44 5/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325056.html">Re: Then and now </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>20:49:33 4/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325050.html">Re: Then and now </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:46:48 4/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325058.html">Re: Then and now </a> - <b>Brad </b> <i>03:08:26 5/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325035.html">70 Month Hair Update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:12:48 4/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325044.html">Re: 70 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:41:34 4/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325043.html">Re: 70 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>19:40:05 4/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325040.html">Re: 70 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>15:24:22 4/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325015.html">Cut my hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>W-G</b> <i>05:36:34 4/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325024.html">Re: Cut my hair. </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>20:57:54 4/23/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324999.html">Update</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>08:01:36 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325004.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>sj</b> <i>15:33:14 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325011.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>15:12:27 4/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325002.html">Update</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:24:32 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325012.html">Re: Update</a> - <b>steve</b> <i>15:12:58 4/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325000.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>08:03:05 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325053.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>09:36:23 4/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325045.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:23:48 4/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325041.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>16:33:32 4/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325025.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>21:03:27 4/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325008.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:07:56 4/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325005.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:17:30 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325029.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>13:07:39 4/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325003.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>13:27:38 4/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325001.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>09:20:19 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325030.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>13:08:39 4/24/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324986.html">2017 update [PIC]</a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>16:54:19 4/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325216.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>17:24:08 7/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325034.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:15:01 4/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325039.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>15:09:25 4/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325032.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:05:02 4/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325033.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>03:30:09 4/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325026.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>21:06:30 4/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325027.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>02:51:10 4/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325016.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>05:40:45 4/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325019.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>16:43:12 4/22/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325017.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:04:40 4/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325018.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>08:16:15 4/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325020.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:34:13 4/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325021.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>03:52:37 4/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325022.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:29:16 4/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325023.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>DavudN</b> <i>07:34:07 4/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325028.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:53:25 4/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325038.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>14:05:14 4/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325031.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:01:31 4/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325037.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:55:31 4/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325042.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:37:32 4/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325046.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:26:44 4/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325048.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:22:33 4/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325051.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:32:54 4/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325052.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:24:21 4/30/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325047.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>21:08:05 4/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325010.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Gordy</b> <i>14:23:44 4/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325013.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>01:19:57 4/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325009.html">Re: 2017 update [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>09:32:02 4/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325014.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>01:26:05 4/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/325006.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:21:37 4/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325007.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>19:13:11 4/20/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324994.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>15:00:42 4/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324997.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>17:21:45 4/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324993.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:34:13 4/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324996.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>17:11:56 4/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324998.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>11:47:48 4/19/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324992.html">update </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:39:13 4/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324995.html">Re: update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>17:03:33 4/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324989.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>20:15:48 4/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324991.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>20:20:29 4/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324988.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:03:18 4/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324990.html">Re: 2017 update </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>20:17:09 4/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324987.html">headbanging [PIC]</a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>17:01:42 4/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324968.html">Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Georges Huard</b> <i>06:36:30 4/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325482.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:29:45 11/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325480.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:34:54 11/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325072.html">I prefer the old Thor! </a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>18:27:40 5/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324974.html">Spoiler alert you've been warned</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:40:48 4/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324971.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:04:50 4/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324972.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>10:51:12 4/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324970.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:23:46 4/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324975.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:32:35 4/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324976.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:16:53 4/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325483.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:33:00 11/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324969.html">Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:13:14 4/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324959.html">An Pic Update of Me [PIC]</a> - <b>John In Denver</b> <i>09:23:30 4/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325054.html">Re: An Pic Update of Me </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>09:36:28 4/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324979.html">Re: An Pic Update of Me </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>17:54:31 4/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324985.html">Re: An Pic Update of Me </a> - <b>John in Denver</b> <i>10:44:59 4/15/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324966.html">Re: An Pic Update of Me </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:55:24 4/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324977.html">Re: An Pic Update of Me </a> - <b>John in Denver</b> <i>14:20:46 4/13/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324936.html">35 month update ! Close to 3 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:51:00 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325055.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>09:36:34 4/30/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/325036.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:10:21 4/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324978.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>17:36:47 4/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324965.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:49:27 4/10/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324954.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>18:10:29 4/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324950.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>John in Denver</b> <i>09:14:40 4/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324946.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>02:35:51 4/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324945.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:42:42 4/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324943.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:15:08 4/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324941.html">Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>16:00:56 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324927.html">My apologies for being so absent! [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF / AKA ''Urban Cowboy''</b> <i>22:27:37 4/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324983.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>03:53:31 4/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324980.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:13:25 4/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324981.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:20:13 4/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324984.html">No fishing allowed! !!! n/t</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:44:25 4/14/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324951.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>17:35:11 4/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324964.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:43:30 4/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324967.html">Short response </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>21:10:51 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324939.html">Good to hear from you!</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>15:02:07 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324963.html">Re: Good to hear from you!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:29:20 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324937.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:53:29 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324962.html">Computers</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:25:37 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324935.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:51:16 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324961.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>18:12:13 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324931.html">good news</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:52:59 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324934.html">Re: good news</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>11:33:26 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324930.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>09:55:21 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324933.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>11:25:46 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324929.html">Re: My apologies for being so absent! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:17:16 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324932.html">Thanks 4 the info! N/T) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>11:16:31 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324928.html">And here's another favorite hair... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>22:39:59 4/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325206.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>13:35:49 6/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324947.html">Re: And here's another favorite hair... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:11:38 4/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324960.html">Haight-Ashbury's 50th Anniversary ''Summer of Love'' </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>17:59:48 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324909.html">Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>07:33:24 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324955.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>18:26:18 4/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324944.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:22:53 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324948.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>05:48:42 4/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324926.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:41:43 4/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324916.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>21:16:39 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324918.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:54:26 4/05/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324915.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:17:57 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324920.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:55:53 4/05/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324912.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:55:16 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324914.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>14:18:44 4/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324881.html">An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:55:42 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324952.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>17:48:31 4/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324958.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:46:41 4/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324925.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:34:52 4/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324949.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:58:46 4/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324908.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>05:54:27 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324911.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:38:39 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324917.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>01:12:49 4/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324919.html">yes (n/t)</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>04:54:32 4/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324923.html">Re: yes (n/t) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>17:13:46 4/05/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324906.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:05:42 4/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324910.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:37:37 4/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324913.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>13:51:42 4/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324893.html">your usual excellent Update</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:13:06 4/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324901.html">Re: your usual excellent Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:45:39 4/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324904.html">this and that</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>09:52:16 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324890.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:07:56 4/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324900.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:43:31 4/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324905.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>09:58:30 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324888.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:41:56 4/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324899.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:35:41 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324887.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>21:35:26 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324898.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:31:56 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324885.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:40:36 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324897.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:29:03 4/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324902.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:22:34 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324883.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>18:40:27 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324896.html">Re: An Update</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:25:48 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324872.html">Update 18 Months [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:41:35 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324953.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>17:56:02 4/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324956.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:41:24 4/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324957.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:52:02 4/09/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324982.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:19:24 4/13/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324938.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:54:57 4/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324942.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:09:29 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324924.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:23:05 4/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324940.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:57:59 4/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324895.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:28:16 4/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324903.html">Re: Update 18 Months </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:32:10 4/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324873.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:42:57 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324891.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>07:33:32 4/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324894.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:02:14 4/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324889.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:49:16 4/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324876.html">Dammit! this is the front view!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:23:42 3/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324874.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:30:01 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324875.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>23:21:20 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324882.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:35:17 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324884.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:31:16 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324892.html">Re: Update 18 Months (back view) </a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>08:45:52 4/02/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324864.html">Longhair Lost</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:09:38 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324866.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>09:53:30 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324870.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>15:54:50 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324877.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>05:18:51 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324886.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:42:47 4/01/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324869.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>15:51:15 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324871.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>17:11:38 3/31/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324867.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:46:04 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324878.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Cameron </b> <i>15:34:38 4/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324879.html">Re: Longhair Lost</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:12:46 4/01/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324842.html">Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>James</b> <i>15:22:01 3/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324907.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>12:11:01 4/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324858.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>09:02:45 3/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324859.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>James</b> <i>17:32:46 3/28/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324849.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:14:28 3/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324847.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:50:02 3/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324846.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:24:36 3/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324850.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:32:48 3/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324845.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>03:23:27 3/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324844.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:08:13 3/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324848.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Jamed</b> <i>06:46:27 3/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324843.html">Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:03:54 3/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324829.html">KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>13:44:00 3/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324832.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>22:56:06 3/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324834.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:02:30 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324837.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:10:51 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324851.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>justin</b> <i>13:34:14 3/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324853.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:15:42 3/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324855.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>23:36:21 3/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324856.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:31:03 3/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324857.html">TIME FOR YOU TO GET LOST, AND FURTHER..........</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:44:48 3/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324833.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:07:36 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324835.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>11:24:52 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324836.html">Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? *IMPORTANT*</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:21:58 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324838.html">Re: My long hair at its longest. ''Video'' of 2010.</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>17:56:36 3/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324841.html">Re: My long hair at its longest. ''Video'' of 2010.</a> - <b>Darrin </b> <i>04:56:13 3/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324852.html">Re: Thanks Darrin. :-) nt.</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>13:36:28 3/26/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324830.html">Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>19:41:25 3/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324860.html">Re: Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:54:56 3/29/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324861.html">Re: Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:23:58 3/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324863.html">Re: Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:13:51 3/30/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324865.html">Re: Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:20:05 3/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324868.html">Re: Ken is fine....</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:30:48 3/31/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324831.html">Thanks for the info. A great relief. nt.</a> - <b>Justin</b> <i>22:47:08 3/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324862.html">Re: Thanks for the info. A great relief. nt.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:59:14 3/30/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324827.html">Super hair</a> - <b>SAM</b> <i>02:31:27 3/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324828.html">Re: Super hair</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>02:34:32 3/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324824.html">Hair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:46:50 3/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324825.html">Re: Hair</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>02:26:32 3/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324815.html">Am new here</a> - <b>Kevin0609</b> <i>10:45:08 3/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324840.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>12:39:08 3/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324822.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>14:48:43 3/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324823.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:45:34 3/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324826.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>02:28:27 3/21/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324821.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>10:16:51 3/19/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324819.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:23:14 3/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324820.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:33:38 3/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324817.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>sj</b> <i>17:31:07 3/18/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324818.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:59:33 3/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324816.html">Re: Am new here</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:06:47 3/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324808.html">2 year journey [PIC]</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>13:07:32 3/14/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324811.html">Re: 2 year journey </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>02:38:47 3/15/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324809.html">Re: 2 year journey </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>16:48:29 3/14/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324806.html">Dad talks to his son about being bullied goes viral</a> - <b>Jake</b> <i>16:21:41 3/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324813.html">Re: Dad talks to his son about being bullied goes viral</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>03:14:30 3/16/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324794.html">Biotin supplements for hair growth?</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:53:22 3/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324802.html">Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>01:27:46 3/13/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324801.html">Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:11:26 3/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324804.html">Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:04:41 3/13/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324805.html">Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:41:41 3/13/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324782.html">Terminal Length</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>07:27:10 3/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324854.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>23:33:06 3/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324789.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>06:41:55 3/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324793.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:51:37 3/12/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324922.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>08:54:23 4/05/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324792.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:41:49 3/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324790.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:59:26 3/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324791.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:49:02 3/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324812.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:53:10 3/15/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324921.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>08:49:04 4/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324814.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>23:22:18 3/16/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324788.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>17:56:36 3/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324785.html">Re: Terminal Length</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:33:52 3/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324766.html">A Hundred Hippies... [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>04:26:54 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324767.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:25:28 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324770.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>13:29:05 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324774.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:11:27 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324803.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>01:33:34 3/13/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324773.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:36:24 3/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324771.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>14:55:04 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324775.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>18:22:33 3/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324777.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:07:05 3/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324778.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:16:57 3/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324779.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:05:14 3/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324780.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>16:56:51 3/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324781.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>21:46:02 3/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324776.html">Re: A Hundred Hippies... </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>18:28:33 3/06/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324765.html">Urban Cowboy...</a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>15:28:39 3/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324783.html">Re: Urban Cowboy...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:37:02 3/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324784.html">Re: Urban Cowboy...</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>14:12:50 3/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324786.html">Re: Urban Cowboy...</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:37:28 3/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324769.html">Ken in SF</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>12:37:39 3/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324768.html">Re: Urban Cowboy...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:30:29 3/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324763.html">Receding hairline? [PIC]</a> - <b>Semicolon</b> <i>15:13:39 3/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324772.html">Re: Receding hairline? </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>14:57:01 3/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324752.html">Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>07:30:20 3/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324764.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>15:13:44 3/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324761.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:37:33 3/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324759.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>05:25:24 3/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324758.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>17:47:33 3/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324762.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:12:37 3/05/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324756.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:43:33 3/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324757.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>17:25:31 3/04/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324755.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>10:06:57 3/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324754.html">Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch! </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>09:19:32 3/04/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324744.html">Grizzly Adams</a> - <b>JSFrodo</b> <i>01:27:34 3/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324745.html">Re: Grizzly Adams</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:07:01 3/01/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324736.html">Wedding Hair Ideas? [PIC]</a> - <b>ThatWeddingHairGuy</b> <i>15:43:06 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325391.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>13:44:56 9/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324753.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>08:49:12 3/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324750.html">Wedding Hair Ideas</a> - <b>Paul Knoke</b> <i>03:20:11 3/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324749.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>19:02:48 3/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324751.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:24:13 3/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324747.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>10:06:50 3/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324746.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>09:30:39 3/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324741.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>UVALee</b> <i>03:03:10 2/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324739.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:51:13 2/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324737.html">Re: Wedding Hair Ideas? </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:12:32 2/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324730.html">Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:15:08 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324738.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:05:49 2/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324733.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>12:18:29 2/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324732.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:19:51 2/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324731.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:19:17 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324734.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>13:15:58 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324735.html">Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>13:17:53 2/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324727.html">Peter Sagan</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:02:01 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324729.html">Re: Peter Sagan</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:49:29 2/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324725.html">Hair update . 40 months [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>11:17:27 2/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324748.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:32:29 3/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324787.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>17:56:31 3/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324740.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>21:01:38 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324742.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>16:08:31 2/28/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324728.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>07:09:00 2/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324743.html">Re: Hair update . 40 months </a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>18:02:14 2/28/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324726.html">Front view [PIC]</a> - <b>MarkS</b> <i>16:08:42 2/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324707.html">Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>Invictus66</b> <i>03:09:15 2/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324839.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>12:18:32 3/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324724.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:24:41 2/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324719.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>20:20:32 2/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324721.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>21:33:59 2/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324722.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:16:18 2/23/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324712.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>10:24:11 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324710.html">Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:08:13 2/21/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324702.html">Me at work :)</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>08:48:13 2/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324708.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>04:47:41 2/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324709.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>05:03:54 2/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324716.html">Re: Me at work :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:30:04 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324715.html">Re: Me at work :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:28:49 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324714.html">Re: Me at work :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:26:48 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324713.html">Re: Me at work :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>12:23:23 2/21/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324704.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:45:18 2/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324706.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>07:59:43 2/20/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324717.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:35:07 2/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324720.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>05:07:33 2/22/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324703.html">Re: Me at work :)</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:18:01 2/19/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324697.html">Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>12:40:59 2/17/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324723.html">Re: Danny Cecati [PIC]</a> - <b>Uwe</b> <i>13:48:41 2/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324705.html">Re: Danny Cecati</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>05:30:22 2/20/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324701.html">Re: Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>07:24:51 2/18/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324700.html">Re: Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:32:33 2/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324699.html">Re: Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>20:35:03 2/17/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324698.html">Re: Danny Cecati</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>18:07:21 2/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324695.html">Like Father, Like Son (spotted on Grammy Red Carpet) [PIC]</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>13:04:15 2/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324679.html">Neck Fuzz [PIC]</a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>05:41:24 2/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324797.html">Re: Neck Fuzz [PIC]</a> - <b>Dan the Man</b> <i>21:08:54 3/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324693.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>07:10:48 2/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324692.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>05:39:16 2/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324690.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:32:27 2/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324689.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>James</b> <i>02:20:33 2/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324687.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>22:48:24 2/11/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324696.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>Neal</b> <i>17:17:29 2/14/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324685.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>19:14:24 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324682.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:54:53 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324681.html">Re: Neck Fuzz </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:53:25 2/11/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324677.html">Hair update [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>02:08:47 2/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/325059.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>07:53:56 5/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324718.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Duncan</b> <i>20:07:21 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324711.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:11:49 2/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324694.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>07:15:28 2/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324691.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:34:45 2/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324688.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>James</b> <i>02:18:09 2/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324684.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:38:07 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324680.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:48:33 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324678.html">Re: Hair update </a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>13:06:07 2/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324659.html">33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick brands </b> <i>09:46:44 2/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324683.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:56:34 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324675.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:01:34 2/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324663.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>08:24:11 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324673.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:28:12 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324674.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:56:30 2/07/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324664.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:25:46 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324665.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:13:32 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324666.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:05:45 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324667.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>16:51:40 2/07/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324672.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:06:48 2/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324671.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:03:44 2/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324670.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:01:17 2/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324669.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:00:42 2/07/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324668.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>18:59:05 2/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324661.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>17:39:05 2/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324662.html">Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) </a> - <b>Patrck Brands</b> <i>07:39:10 2/07/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324655.html">Long hair and ventilator = good combination</a> - <b>Robin H.</b> <i>17:09:32 2/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324658.html">Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>03:00:09 2/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324657.html">Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:29:06 2/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324660.html">Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination</a> - <b>Robin H.</b> <i>17:31:40 2/06/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324652.html">Question about hair growth/hygeine</a> - <b>Frank</b> <i>03:10:59 2/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324654.html">Re: Question about hair growth/hygeine</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>21:28:49 2/03/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324641.html">Research Part 2</a> - <b>Alan</b> <i>18:05:32 2/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324686.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>19:14:29 2/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324656.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>steve</b> <i>17:09:37 2/05/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324653.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>19:28:06 2/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324651.html">Re: Research Part 2 [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>18:23:54 2/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324650.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:49:22 2/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324649.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:41:31 2/02/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324643.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:37:59 2/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324642.html">Re: Research Part 2</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>19:20:26 2/01/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324634.html">Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>owias12</b> <i>15:05:53 1/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324644.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:41:33 2/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324638.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:01:00 2/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324635.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>23:51:31 1/31/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324639.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:05:22 2/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324637.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>owias12</b> <i>03:12:02 2/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324645.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>22:02:19 2/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324647.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:46:39 2/02/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324640.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:14:03 2/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324646.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>owias12</b> <i>03:05:19 2/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324648.html">Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:50:18 2/02/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324617.html">Kids' updates [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:51:18 1/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324676.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:25:50 2/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324636.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>23:58:23 1/31/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324630.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:20:23 1/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324629.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>08:15:50 1/28/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324627.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>22:46:57 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324626.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>22:44:09 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324625.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>14:20:47 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324620.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:30:15 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324619.html">Re: Kids' updates </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>09:22:01 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324618.html">8- and 4-year-old sons [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:55:24 1/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324628.html">Re: 8- and 4-year-old sons </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:06:38 1/28/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324610.html">Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>14:56:33 1/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324621.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:50:11 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324614.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:55:51 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324612.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:12:38 1/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324631.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>18:17:39 1/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324632.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:30:25 1/28/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324633.html">Re: Perfect Native Mane!</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>03:32:18 1/31/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324607.html">A few months short of 6 years update [PIC]</a> - <b>Lance</b> <i>03:14:10 1/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324584.html">A journey again, as long as I can :) ... [PIC]</a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>15:03:05 1/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324601.html">Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ... </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:31:36 1/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324594.html">Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ... </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>12:49:54 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324590.html">Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ... </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:14:42 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324586.html">Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ... </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>03:16:31 1/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324583.html">New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>13:37:45 1/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324608.html">New</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>03:16:46 1/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324602.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:34:29 1/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324606.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>02:48:59 1/26/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324598.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>16:21:37 1/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324600.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>08:00:00 1/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324597.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>16:21:32 1/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324599.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>07:55:23 1/25/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324592.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:53:29 1/24/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324593.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>12:36:36 1/24/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324587.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>sj</b> <i>03:16:38 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324585.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:03:59 1/23/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324613.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>03:12:44 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324589.html">Re: New to the site!</a> - <b>Alexander</b> <i>04:17:50 1/24/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324576.html">Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>17:03:27 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324611.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>15:06:43 1/26/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324615.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:58:25 1/27/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324624.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>13:06:27 1/27/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324603.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:37:09 1/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324582.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>03:32:32 1/23/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324581.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>23:29:39 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324616.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:47:49 1/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324578.html">Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:51:26 1/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324575.html">5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>09:33:28 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324604.html">Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>08:39:38 1/25/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324622.html">Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:55:19 1/27/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324580.html">Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:12:06 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324591.html">Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:46:47 1/24/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324572.html">Finally going for it again!! [PIC]</a> - <b>Skyfather</b> <i>02:28:20 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324596.html">Re: Finally going for it again!! </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>13:16:24 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324574.html">Re: Finally going for it again!! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:05:26 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324577.html">Re: Finally going for it again!! </a> - <b>Skyfather</b> <i>17:39:53 1/22/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324579.html">Re: Finally going for it again!! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:06:44 1/22/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324568.html">Research</a> - <b>Alan</b> <i>17:14:51 1/19/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324609.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Alan</b> <i>10:28:32 1/26/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324605.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Alan</b> <i>09:14:15 1/25/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324595.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>13:11:12 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324588.html">Copy and Paste from my old thread</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>03:41:46 1/24/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324571.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>05:41:41 1/21/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324570.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:41:35 1/21/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324573.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:32:28 1/22/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324569.html">Re: Research</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>16:25:02 1/20/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324559.html">32 Month Hair Journey :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:56:33 1/10/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324623.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:12:46 1/27/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324564.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>07:43:24 1/14/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324566.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>09:09:49 1/17/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324563.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>03:10:49 1/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324562.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>16:48:53 1/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324561.html">Side shot [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>15:55:05 1/11/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324560.html">Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:57:44 1/10/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324550.html">Inspiration [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>05:39:24 1/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324551.html">Re: Inspiration </a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>12:47:25 1/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324557.html">Re: Inspiration </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>15:53:57 1/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324558.html">Re: Inspiration </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>18:16:12 1/09/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324540.html">Yearly Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D. </b> <i>16:18:41 1/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324541.html">Re: Yearly Update [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D. </b> <i>16:20:14 1/04/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324556.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:33:12 1/08/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324547.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>15:42:00 1/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324552.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>14:35:45 1/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324544.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>03:06:06 1/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324553.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>14:37:21 1/08/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324542.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>14:31:38 1/05/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324554.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>14:40:04 1/08/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324555.html">Re: Yearly Update </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:30:23 1/08/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324534.html">Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!</a> - <b>brucew</b> <i>20:39:38 1/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324538.html">Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:19:55 1/04/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324535.html">Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:45:32 1/03/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324539.html">Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:23:56 1/04/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324519.html">Have a Happy New year all !!! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>15:05:19 12/30/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324548.html">Re: Have a Happy New year all !!! </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>15:46:30 1/06/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324528.html">Re: Have a Happy New year all !!! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:54:33 1/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324527.html">Re: Have a Happy New year all !!! </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:05:23 1/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324523.html">Re: Have a Happy New year all !!! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:36:55 12/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324522.html">Happy New year all !!! [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>06:35:46 12/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324521.html">Re: Have a Happy New year all !!! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:03:38 12/30/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324513.html">Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... [PIC]</a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>05:33:19 12/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324520.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>15:10:00 12/30/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324524.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>23:51:36 12/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324526.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:52:32 1/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324529.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>18:18:40 1/01/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324518.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:44:13 12/30/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324517.html">Alive and Well</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>03:27:45 12/30/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324516.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>03:12:15 12/30/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324525.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>04:38:41 1/01/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324530.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>22:47:50 1/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324533.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>11:33:36 1/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324515.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>00:43:39 12/30/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324514.html">Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>21:53:17 12/29/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324510.html">Game of Thrones</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:43:37 12/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324511.html">Re: Game of Thrones</a> - <b>michael</b> <i>06:35:37 12/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324504.html">dry frizzies [PIC]</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>05:43:48 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324512.html">Re: dry frizzies </a> - <b>Rlgarrett36</b> <i>08:52:41 12/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324502.html">Hairfreaky</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>05:22:32 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324506.html">Re: Hairfreaky</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>13:56:09 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324507.html">Re: Hairfreaky</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:27:22 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324509.html">Why this is shocking</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>22:49:11 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324537.html">Re: Why this is shocking</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>21:07:08 1/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324486.html">~14 Month Update-Pressing On [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:58:48 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324545.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>09:46:46 1/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324549.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:38:27 1/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324503.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>05:22:37 12/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324508.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:42:18 12/26/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324500.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>06:52:27 12/25/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324501.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:39:05 12/25/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324495.html">14 Months</a> - <b>White Tailw</b> <i>07:28:03 12/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324497.html">Re: 14 Months</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>10:15:45 12/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324494.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:14:45 12/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324496.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>10:12:44 12/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324490.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:49:35 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324492.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:21:21 12/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324487.html">Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On (Front) [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:59:55 12/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324480.html">A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>13:53:58 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324536.html">Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>20:56:04 1/03/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324489.html">Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:40:15 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324491.html">You don't look 50 dude!</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>21:12:41 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324493.html">Re: You don't look 50 dude!</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:30:21 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324498.html">Keep it long and Merry Christmas! </a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>15:52:16 12/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324499.html">Re: Keep it long and Merry Christmas! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:58:53 12/24/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324485.html">Long hair makes you look old? </a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>19:13:09 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324531.html">What I meant was</a> - <b>Kenneth</b> <i>22:47:55 1/02/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324532.html">Re: What I meant was</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:58:23 1/03/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324483.html">Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:07:43 12/23/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324482.html">Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:56:57 12/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324474.html">2 Years of Growing</a> - <b>Kyle</b> <i>14:41:49 12/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324477.html">Re: 2 Years of Growing</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:34:53 12/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324478.html">Re: 2 Years of Growing</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:19:34 12/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324475.html">Re: 2 Years of Growing [PIC]</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>14:44:32 12/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324473.html">The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>14:23:12 12/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324810.html">Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>19:07:29 3/14/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324479.html">Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:53:41 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324488.html">Comparison between1967 and 1977</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>20:25:45 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324807.html">Re: Comparison between1967 and 1977</a> - <b>Dan the Man</b> <i>17:53:28 3/13/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324481.html">I was comparing the 1970s to the previous decade</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>16:32:13 12/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324476.html">Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:55:30 12/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324457.html">What's the latest on this issue?</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>14:57:53 12/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324458.html">Re: What's the latest on this issue?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:28:19 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324460.html">Re: What's the latest on this issue?</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>13:37:22 12/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324459.html">Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>13:31:53 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324466.html">Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:25:14 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324468.html">What I really meant to ask was...</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>19:09:01 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324469.html">Re: What I really meant to ask was...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>05:07:29 12/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324467.html">Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>15:29:15 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324470.html">Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>12:53:02 12/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324453.html">time to grow it again [PIC]</a> - <b>Thylacine</b> <i>05:37:41 12/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324454.html">Re: time to grow it again </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:54:50 12/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324456.html">Re: time to grow it again </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:37:27 12/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324455.html">Re: time to grow it again [PIC]</a> - <b>Thylacine</b> <i>15:52:44 12/18/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324451.html">current hair length</a> - <b>mikeh</b> <i>13:33:50 12/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324442.html">When should I start using conditioner??</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>17:12:43 12/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324447.html">Re: When should I start using conditioner??</a> - <b>Ev</b> <i>18:26:40 12/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324445.html">Re: When should I start using conditioner??</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>18:25:11 12/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324444.html">Re: When should I start using conditioner??</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:12:54 12/16/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324441.html">31 month update ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:30:06 12/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324472.html">Re: 31 month update ! </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:05:36 12/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324465.html">Re: 31 month update ! </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:39:59 12/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324450.html">Re: 31 month update ! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:30:00 12/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324443.html">Re: 31 month update ! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>18:55:27 12/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324440.html">31 month update ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:00:08 12/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324437.html">Growing out</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>03:35:42 12/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324543.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>Viking</b> <i>02:06:14 1/06/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324546.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>09:46:51 1/06/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324452.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>13:50:54 12/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324461.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:39:39 12/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324449.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:23:06 12/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324462.html">Re: Growing out [PIC]</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:39:44 12/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324484.html">Re: Growing out </a> - <b>Oren</b> <i>18:49:32 12/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324505.html">Re: Growing out </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>10:49:40 12/26/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324446.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>18:25:16 12/16/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324463.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:39:49 12/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324438.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>Rul</b> <i>07:17:45 12/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324464.html">Re: Growing out</a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>13:39:54 12/20/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324435.html">Washing Hair with soap (video) [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>11:49:40 12/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324565.html">what are adidas neo shoes</a> - <b>what are adidas neo shoes</b> <i>10:42:56 1/14/17</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324567.html">Re: what are adidas neo shoes</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:10:35 1/18/17</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324448.html">Re: Washing Hair with soap (video) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:12:21 12/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324471.html">Re: Washing Hair with soap (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:51:25 12/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324436.html">Re: Washing Hair with soap (video) </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>11:29:18 12/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324439.html">Re: Washing Hair with soap (video) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:23:46 12/15/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324420.html">Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>03:00:51 12/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324431.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>10:51:51 12/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324427.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:06:26 12/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324432.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:16:17 12/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324429.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>09:11:25 12/03/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324426.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>12:03:09 12/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324430.html">Re: Long hair Calendar</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>10:42:51 12/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324414.html">A Question on Future Baldness [PIC]</a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>11:30:35 12/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324434.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Eric</b> <i>23:45:50 12/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324428.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>00:21:08 12/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324423.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>11:33:00 12/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324422.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>10:10:28 12/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324421.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>CA831</b> <i>09:32:22 12/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324419.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:33:30 12/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324418.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>yoshiki</b> <i>17:43:09 12/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324417.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:43:04 12/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324416.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>14:24:53 12/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324415.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>12:34:15 12/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324760.html">Re: A Question on Future Baldness </a> - <b>SavageHair</b> <i>05:25:29 3/05/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324407.html">Long haired Unicyclist</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:10:54 11/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324413.html">Re: Long haired Unicyclist</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>07:49:53 12/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324405.html">The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>Wade Garret</b> <i>16:52:46 11/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324425.html">Re: The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>11:56:07 12/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324409.html">Re: The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:42:21 11/30/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324410.html">Re: The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:26:07 11/30/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324411.html">Re: The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:43:59 11/30/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324406.html">Re: The Battle of being a Longhair</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:00:55 11/29/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324394.html">November 2016 update [PIC]</a> - <b>dgnick</b> <i>00:19:11 11/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324399.html">Re: November 2016 update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:02:22 11/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324398.html">Re: November 2016 update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>09:21:57 11/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324397.html">Re: November 2016 update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:13:23 11/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324396.html">Re: November 2016 update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:05:28 11/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324395.html">Re: November 2016 update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>00:20:35 11/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324388.html">Something that was posted before (sort of) </a> - <b>Giacco</b> <i>00:42:02 11/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324424.html">Re: Something that was posted before (sort of) </a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>11:41:59 12/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324390.html">Re: Something that was posted before (sort of) </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:04:27 11/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324389.html">Re: Something that was posted before (sort of) </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:26:32 11/26/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324381.html">Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>15:02:02 11/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324386.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>CA831</b> <i>12:41:31 11/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324382.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>16:51:19 11/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324383.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>12:08:57 11/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324385.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>CA831</b> <i>12:39:25 11/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324387.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>15:24:33 11/25/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324391.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>09:10:22 11/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324392.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>16:14:15 11/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324393.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:28:12 11/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324401.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>18:04:19 11/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324404.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>15:14:01 11/29/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324400.html">Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity</a> - <b>steve</b> <i>18:04:14 11/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324403.html">''it's the economy, stupid'' </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:17:03 11/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324412.html">Re: ''it's the economy, stupid'' </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>11:34:35 11/30/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324402.html">''it's the economy, stupid'' </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>14:06:03 11/29/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324377.html">My 10 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>03:47:12 11/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324378.html">Re: My 10 month update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:19:15 11/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324371.html">Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone?? [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>11:19:43 11/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324384.html">Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone?? </a> - <b>Giacco</b> <i>01:24:19 11/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324375.html">Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone?? </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:09:32 11/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324372.html">Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone?? </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:27:57 11/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324357.html">Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Josh</b> <i>13:45:39 11/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324376.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen [PIC]</a> - <b>CEM.</b> <i>00:27:26 11/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324379.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>14:09:21 11/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324380.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen </a> - <b>CEM.</b> <i>16:31:22 11/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324369.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>11:02:34 11/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324368.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>15:51:10 11/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324366.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>CA831</b> <i>10:20:22 11/16/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324367.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>10:39:40 11/16/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324365.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Deanof316</b> <i>09:46:46 11/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324364.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>04:31:01 11/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324363.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:29:01 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324362.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>18:52:21 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324361.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Cameron</b> <i>17:51:50 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324360.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>17:37:54 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324359.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:23:56 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324358.html">Re: Question for you gentlemen</a> - <b>mikh</b> <i>15:34:46 11/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324350.html">2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>07:03:10 11/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324356.html">Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>12:09:56 11/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324354.html">Better Pic of Progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>07:20:01 11/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324370.html">Re: Better Pic of Progress </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>12:35:47 11/17/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324353.html">Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:28:41 11/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324355.html">Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>09:01:21 11/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324351.html">Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>09:27:38 11/14/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324340.html">Growing my hair. [PIC]</a> - <b>Skyro</b> <i>09:21:13 11/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324352.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>12:16:57 11/14/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324348.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:02:44 11/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324347.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:28:44 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324345.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:02:48 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324344.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>Mxt</b> <i>20:33:06 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324341.html">Re: Growing my hair. </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:33:26 11/11/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324337.html">Braid Combo Thing... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>03:12:20 11/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324349.html">Re: Braid Combo Thing... </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>08:49:21 11/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324346.html">Re: Braid Combo Thing... </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>22:21:18 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324343.html">Re: Braid Combo Thing... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:36:43 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324339.html">Re: Braid Combo Thing... </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:47:09 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324338.html">Re: Braid Combo Thing... </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>04:33:14 11/11/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324326.html">Down by the river... [PIC]</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>00:15:53 11/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324335.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Karsten</b> <i>02:54:40 11/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324334.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>23:54:24 11/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324336.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>22:29:06 11/09/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324333.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:34:10 11/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324329.html">Really cool shot (n/t)</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>11:21:06 11/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324330.html">Re: Really cool shot (n/t)</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>17:08:12 11/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324328.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:17:15 11/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324331.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>17:10:12 11/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324327.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:08:01 11/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324332.html">Re: Down by the river... </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>17:14:23 11/08/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324318.html">Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>07:40:49 11/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324342.html">Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:35:17 11/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324323.html">Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:15:59 11/07/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324320.html">Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:03:09 11/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324321.html">Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:03:20 11/07/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324306.html">Floor length</a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:31:20 11/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324322.html">Re: Floor length</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:10:27 11/07/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324311.html">Re: Floor length</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:01:59 11/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324317.html">Re: Floor length</a> - <b>liu22timilman</b> <i>04:58:51 11/06/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324309.html">Re: Floor length</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>03:06:30 11/03/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324290.html">64 Month update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:43:40 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324307.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>17:31:25 11/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324316.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>18:20:40 11/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324298.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:09:53 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324305.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:03:44 11/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324310.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:38:42 11/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324373.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>20:30:08 11/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324308.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>19:49:23 11/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324374.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>20:35:02 11/19/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324296.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>18:38:22 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324301.html">Thanks, Trolleypup! (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:56:42 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324294.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:16:51 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324300.html">Re: 64 Month update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:55:46 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324286.html">Happy Halloween [PIC]</a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>22:45:06 10/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324312.html">Re: Happy Halloween [PIC]</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>06:58:41 11/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324314.html">And Another Picture [PIC]</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>07:03:23 11/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324315.html">Re: And Another Picture </a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>18:20:03 11/04/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324297.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>22:14:02 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324324.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>00:09:57 11/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324292.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>13:20:39 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324325.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>00:11:44 11/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324291.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>13:02:44 11/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324295.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>18:01:00 11/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324289.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>05:19:36 11/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324287.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>23:12:01 10/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324288.html">Re: Happy Halloween </a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>23:20:05 10/31/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324281.html">Current Progress... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>10:00:54 10/25/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324284.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>08:57:41 10/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324283.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:19:53 10/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324282.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>16:49:35 10/25/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324265.html">Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>00:06:34 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324293.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:46:32 11/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324279.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:45:51 10/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324271.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>09:00:26 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324280.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>14:47:19 10/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324268.html">Re: Update (PIC) [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:24:05 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324270.html">Re: Update (PIC) </a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>07:42:54 10/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324266.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>02:48:25 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324269.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Mark</b> <i>06:46:28 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324272.html">Re: Update (PIC)</a> - <b>Todd</b> <i>13:24:58 10/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324264.html">Back after a long time [PIC]</a> - <b>Giacco</b> <i>19:16:48 10/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324278.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>09:44:04 10/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324277.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Rul</b> <i>06:15:22 10/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324267.html">Re: Back after a long time [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:12:20 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324274.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>15:39:53 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324276.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:58:03 10/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324273.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Giacco</b> <i>14:59:47 10/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324275.html">Re: Back after a long time </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:54:02 10/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324255.html">7 months progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>09:00:15 10/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324261.html">Re: 7 months progress </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>14:19:49 10/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324260.html">Re: 7 months progress </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>09:48:54 10/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324259.html">Re: 7 months progress </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:29:30 10/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324257.html">Re: 7 months progress </a> - <b>beachbum</b> <i>17:32:11 10/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324258.html">Re: 7 months progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>17:51:43 10/18/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324229.html">29 month progress from a buzzcut :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:46:45 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324313.html">Long hair suits you very well (N/T)</a> - <b>Jarvis</b> <i>07:01:21 11/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324285.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>08:59:00 10/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324263.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Alex</b> <i>20:12:08 10/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324256.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:52:50 10/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324254.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Rul</b> <i>21:21:53 10/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324252.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>20:32:33 10/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324251.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>20:32:28 10/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324241.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>09:42:54 10/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324240.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>05:31:24 10/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324237.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>23:23:49 10/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324234.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:32:36 10/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324232.html">Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>18:30:19 10/12/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324213.html">Current Progress... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>05:58:40 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324238.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>23:26:13 10/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324231.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>16:23:50 10/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324221.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:28:27 10/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324214.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>06:16:03 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324223.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:38:38 10/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324216.html">Re: Current Progress... </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:48:11 10/11/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324210.html">I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>18:43:10 10/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324219.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>13:36:54 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324242.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>10:46:45 10/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324217.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>10:47:39 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324243.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>10:50:03 10/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324218.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>12:40:34 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324225.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>17:08:36 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324227.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>08:39:19 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324262.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>18:32:50 10/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324228.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:58:36 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324244.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>10:56:05 10/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324247.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>13:22:17 10/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324250.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>19:40:45 10/15/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324212.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:35:24 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324245.html">Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>11:01:23 10/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324211.html">ro,Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:31:32 10/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324246.html">Re: ro,Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>11:03:44 10/13/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324199.html">Hairstyle recommendation [PIC]</a> - <b>pclisan</b> <i>09:47:17 10/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324798.html">Re: Hairstyle recommendation </a> - <b>Dan the Man</b> <i>21:08:59 3/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324203.html">Re: Hairstyle recommendation </a> - <b>Richard.B</b> <i>05:54:54 10/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324202.html">Re: Hairstyle recommendation </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:13:06 10/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324200.html">Re: Hairstyle recommendation </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>15:17:59 10/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324185.html">1 Year Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:30:23 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324239.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>23:28:25 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324249.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:02:53 10/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324233.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:36:05 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324236.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>21:14:32 10/12/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324230.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>15:08:45 10/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324235.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:53:05 10/12/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324215.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>06:28:48 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324222.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:36:54 10/11/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324208.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Rktect</b> <i>16:21:04 10/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324220.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>16:23:01 10/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324248.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Rktect</b> <i>14:20:21 10/13/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324205.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>DavidN</b> <i>03:12:03 10/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324207.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:17:04 10/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324204.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>The Spaf Man</b> <i>17:21:19 10/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324206.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>07:12:39 10/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324195.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:53:59 10/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324198.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:41:18 10/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324201.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:55:41 10/08/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324194.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:42:25 10/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324197.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>09:09:08 10/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324193.html">Re: 1 Year </a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>08:41:02 10/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324196.html">Re: 1 Year </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>08:27:56 10/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324187.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:03:15 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324191.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:50:33 10/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324186.html">Re: 1 Year Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:32:07 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324190.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>21:46:54 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324192.html">Re: 1 Year Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>06:54:45 10/07/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324174.html">You Can Never Cut Your Hair</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>15:14:59 10/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324163.html">Hello everybody</a> - <b>Riko</b> <i>03:25:16 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324253.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>20:32:38 10/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324181.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:08:39 10/06/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324178.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>19:24:30 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324179.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Riko</b> <i>04:37:01 10/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324176.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>19:24:20 10/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324171.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>09:27:09 10/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324170.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:18:37 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324172.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Riko</b> <i>11:00:22 10/04/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324165.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>03:49:02 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324169.html">Re: Hello everybody</a> - <b>Riko</b> <i>04:26:46 10/04/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324160.html">Update and Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>17:25:13 10/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324226.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>20:41:11 10/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324188.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Tristan </b> <i>21:26:12 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324189.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>21:43:56 10/06/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324182.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Walter Scott</b> <i>12:12:17 10/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324184.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>16:50:38 10/06/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324180.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:24:32 10/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324183.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>16:49:21 10/06/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324177.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>19:24:25 10/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324175.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>James</b> <i>18:35:15 10/04/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324168.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Riko</b> <i>04:25:21 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324173.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>11:43:23 10/04/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324164.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>03:47:06 10/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324166.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>04:09:59 10/04/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324162.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:33:23 10/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324167.html">Re: Update and Photo </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>04:15:45 10/04/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324161.html">Re: Update and Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>17:27:40 10/03/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324155.html">''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:04:45 10/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324157.html">Re: ''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>09:09:26 10/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324159.html">Re: ''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:46:16 10/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324154.html">5 things to stop telling boys</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:43:01 10/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324799.html">Re: 5 things to stop telling boys</a> - <b>Dan the Man</b> <i>21:09:04 3/12/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/324158.html">Re: 5 things to stop telling boys</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>09:21:59 10/03/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324149.html">Reflections on the Journey</a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>09:21:08 9/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324153.html">Re: Reflections on the Journey</a> - <b>Rani</b> <i>08:10:27 10/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324151.html">Re: Reflections on the Journey</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>10:22:50 9/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324150.html">Re: Reflections on the Journey</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:39:01 9/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324147.html">Amazing Mane on a Horse</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:29:52 9/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324156.html">Re: Amazing Mane on a Horse</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>18:09:32 10/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324146.html">Long Hair Inspiration: Carl McCoy</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>05:42:16 9/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324113.html">almost 3-year update [PIC]</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>11:57:32 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324142.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:49:49 9/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324145.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>17:38:54 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324130.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>20:55:08 9/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324124.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:28:54 9/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324127.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>10:33:06 9/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324114.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>13:55:36 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324126.html">Re: almost 3-year update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>10:31:55 9/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324100.html">Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>WadeGarret</b> <i>03:14:03 9/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324224.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>17:04:03 10/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324148.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:03:22 9/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324139.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>08:34:40 9/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324152.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>18:10:24 9/29/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324112.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>11:57:27 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324137.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>WadeGarret78</b> <i>03:11:53 9/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324138.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:59:12 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324129.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>17:50:09 9/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324131.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:28:35 9/22/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324107.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>20:03:51 9/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324132.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>07:36:04 9/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324104.html">To Be oe Not to Be....</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>10:21:45 9/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324103.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>06:54:33 9/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324106.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:51:03 9/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324800.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Dan the Man</b> <i>21:09:09 3/12/17</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324102.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:02:35 9/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324101.html">Re: Need some encouragement brothers.</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>04:00:30 9/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324092.html">trying to grow long hair [PIC]</a> - <b>Kevin</b> <i>14:24:33 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324117.html">Re: trying to grow long hair </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:09:52 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324097.html">Re: trying to grow long hair </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>16:23:12 9/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324094.html">Re: trying to grow long hair </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>15:02:52 9/18/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324088.html">knot [PIC]</a> - <b>John</b> <i>06:03:57 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324141.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>John</b> <i>09:45:31 9/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324143.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:54:42 9/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324144.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>John</b> <i>12:59:48 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324105.html">No.</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:02:20 9/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324108.html">Re: No.</a> - <b>John</b> <i>09:27:20 9/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324098.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>17:36:25 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324109.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>John</b> <i>09:27:25 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324099.html">This post has the solutioin. </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>21:24:18 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324110.html">Re: This post has the solutioin. </a> - <b>John</b> <i>09:27:30 9/20/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324091.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>11:39:57 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324093.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>lipwak</b> <i>14:24:38 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324135.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>03:11:41 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324089.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>06:50:37 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324090.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>lipwak</b> <i>10:32:52 9/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324140.html">Re: knot </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>09:34:28 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324084.html">New here</a> - <b>lordpeich</b> <i>06:38:49 9/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324136.html">Re: New here</a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>03:11:48 9/23/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324087.html">Re: New here</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:16:34 9/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324086.html">Re: New here</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>10:13:17 9/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324085.html">Re: New here</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:45:25 9/17/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324083.html">6 months update [PIC] [PIC]</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>03:22:18 9/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324111.html">Re: 6 months update </a> - <b>steve</b> <i>11:57:22 9/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324077.html">8 months update. The MacGyver mullet! [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>11:23:30 9/16/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324122.html">Re: 8 months update. The MacGyver mullet! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:29:23 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324082.html">Re: 8 months update. The MacGyver mullet! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:55:15 9/16/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324067.html">3 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>08:19:28 9/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324133.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>12:39:14 9/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324134.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:02:26 9/23/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324115.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:21:16 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324123.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>06:37:05 9/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324096.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>16:23:07 9/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324080.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>18:40:08 9/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324078.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>James</b> <i>15:42:53 9/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324074.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:50:16 9/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324073.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>15:53:31 9/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324076.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:55:19 9/16/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324072.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>15:41:32 9/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324069.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>12:37:57 9/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324071.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>13:53:47 9/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324068.html">Re: 3 years </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>11:06:05 9/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324054.html">28 months under my belt :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>21:32:20 9/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324121.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:25:31 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324081.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>18:40:36 9/16/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324075.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:52:44 9/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324065.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>05:22:39 9/14/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324064.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>02:41:44 9/14/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324063.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>22:02:55 9/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324058.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:23:15 9/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324057.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:51:44 9/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324056.html">Re: 28 months under my belt :) </a> - <b>Mike B</b> <i>12:23:35 9/12/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324036.html">Maintaining a length</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>07:10:27 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324066.html">Re: Maintaining a length</a> - <b>Rktect</b> <i>13:23:54 9/14/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324028.html">62 Month Hair Update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:39:23 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324061.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>11:16:12 9/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324055.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>01:11:14 9/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324051.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:53:05 9/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324050.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Longhairedone Steve</b> <i>15:52:09 9/10/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324030.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>11:24:39 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324053.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>10:49:30 9/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324070.html">Re: 62 Month Hair Update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>12:48:27 9/15/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324016.html">Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>19:11:31 9/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324116.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:25:14 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324299.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>14:54:49 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324060.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>11:15:17 9/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324302.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>14:57:18 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324022.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:53:38 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324303.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>14:58:46 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324021.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:22:24 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324304.html">Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa</a> - <b>white mane</b> <i>15:01:07 11/02/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324014.html">Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>radiomask</b> <i>17:20:52 9/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324059.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:48:42 9/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324045.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:16:19 9/10/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324020.html">Keep BOTH, she'll get over it (no text)!</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:18:56 9/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324019.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>23:13:22 9/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324018.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>20:56:50 9/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324017.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:59:43 9/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324015.html">Re: Keep the beard or the hair?</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>18:37:36 9/08/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324011.html">It's done</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:54:06 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324118.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:13:40 9/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324125.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:43:07 9/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324128.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>17:22:31 9/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324046.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:22:25 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324047.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>12:07:46 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324048.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:17:47 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324033.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:41:51 9/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324031.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:59:58 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324034.html">Re: It's done</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>20:10:18 9/09/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324000.html">Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:47:29 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324024.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:07:11 9/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324023.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:10:37 9/09/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324027.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:15:25 9/09/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324013.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:49:00 9/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324026.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:12:48 9/09/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324001.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:25:12 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324025.html">Re: Welcome PhilipZ!</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>08:10:45 9/09/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323997.html">Under Cover Long Hair aspiring Rock Star - Age 32.</a> - <b>Wade Garret</b> <i>09:51:56 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324010.html">Re: Under Cover Long Hair aspiring Rock Star - Age 32.</a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>21:09:36 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323990.html">What a difference! [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>14:07:43 9/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323991.html">Re: What a difference! [PIC]</a> - <b>A.D. </b> <i>14:10:08 9/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324119.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:18:59 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324052.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:58:29 9/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324095.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>16:23:02 9/18/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324035.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Longhairedone Steve</b> <i>05:10:04 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324044.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:12:09 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/324012.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>23:20:55 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324043.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:10:09 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323999.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:50:55 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324042.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:06:40 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324079.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>18:39:38 9/16/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323996.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>04:54:44 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324041.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:04:33 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323995.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>03:18:06 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324040.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>11:01:42 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323992.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>15:53:40 9/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324039.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>10:59:28 9/10/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323993.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>16:02:57 9/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324038.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>10:53:59 9/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324049.html">Re: What a difference! </a> - <b>Darrin</b> <i>13:25:18 9/10/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323984.html">The 1970s are back! </a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>12:59:33 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323989.html">Re: The 1970s are back! </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:01:43 9/06/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323972.html">2 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Aeyrim</b> <i>06:05:20 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323985.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>12:59:39 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324003.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>aeyrim</b> <i>18:44:37 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323982.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:52:21 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324004.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>aeyrim</b> <i>18:44:42 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323976.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>09:08:54 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324002.html">Re: 2 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Aeyrim</b> <i>18:44:32 9/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324120.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>18:22:24 9/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/324009.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>20:53:43 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323974.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:56:25 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324005.html">Re: 2 month update </a> - <b>aeyrim</b> <i>18:44:47 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323941.html">O/T - Facebook [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:52:55 9/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323994.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>16:59:08 9/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323998.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:49:57 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323971.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>08:59:30 9/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323980.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:40:39 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323988.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>20:05:07 9/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323973.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:17:11 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323975.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>09:02:43 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323977.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>09:54:03 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323983.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:15:40 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323986.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>14:19:13 9/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323981.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:48:44 9/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323987.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:04:30 9/05/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323970.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:42:30 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323979.html">Re: O/T - Facebook [PIC]</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:31:47 9/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323952.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>07:05:04 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323969.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Yadgar</b> <i>19:09:48 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323978.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>10:27:46 9/05/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323960.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:42:50 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323968.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:40:56 9/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323950.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:12:21 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323959.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:35:06 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323966.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>10:53:20 9/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323949.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>05:34:02 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323958.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:26:36 9/03/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323948.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>21:23:23 9/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323957.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:22:39 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323967.html">Re: O/T - Facebook </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>11:09:34 9/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323942.html">Oops... forgot the link.</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:55:39 9/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323943.html">Oops AGAIN! Wrong article...</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>09:06:37 9/02/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323926.html">21 months! finally got the guts to post on here [PIC]</a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>19:36:45 8/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323961.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:51:01 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324008.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>19:04:35 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323953.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>07:12:03 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324007.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>19:03:47 9/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323951.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:20:26 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323955.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>07:14:18 9/03/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323965.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>10:42:40 9/03/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323940.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>21:38:11 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323944.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>17:54:20 9/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323939.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>21:32:25 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323945.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>17:55:09 9/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323938.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here [PIC]</a> - <b>Sugarcane</b> <i>17:42:47 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323947.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>17:58:13 9/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323937.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>17:42:42 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323946.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>17:57:29 9/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323931.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>10:05:15 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323932.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:11:46 9/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323930.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>05:00:01 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323933.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:12:34 9/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323929.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>03:11:03 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323934.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:13:00 9/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323928.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>00:16:59 9/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323935.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:13:29 9/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323927.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:50:08 8/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323936.html">Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here </a> - <b>Goku</b> <i>15:14:10 9/01/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323908.html">update [PIC]</a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>11:16:18 8/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323962.html">Re: update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:52:14 9/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323954.html">Nice!!! (N/T) </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>07:13:32 9/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323919.html">Re: update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:20:32 8/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323914.html">Re: update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:16:43 8/27/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323910.html">Re: update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:01:05 8/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323909.html">Re: update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:23:09 8/26/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323895.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>13:50:55 8/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323963.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:53:47 9/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323956.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>07:17:15 9/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323915.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:23:20 8/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323916.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:04:17 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323897.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>17:51:26 8/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323918.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:17:20 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323896.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>20:54:13 8/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323917.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:09:20 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323885.html">Portrait [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:38:03 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323964.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>08:54:50 9/03/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323904.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:54:33 8/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323912.html">Thank you, Scott! (n/t)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:06:55 8/27/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323898.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>06:43:12 8/25/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323911.html">Re: Portrait - Full Length [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:05:43 8/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324006.html">Re: Portrait - Full Length </a> - <b>aeyrim</b> <i>18:44:52 9/07/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323922.html">Re: Portrait - Full Length </a> - <b>trolleypup</b> <i>07:54:58 8/28/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323920.html">Re: Portrait - Full Length </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:23:06 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323894.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>03:10:50 8/22/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323913.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:12:12 8/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323925.html">Re: Portrait </a> - <b>Bob</b> <i>15:18:39 8/29/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323876.html">Fast growing strands</a> - <b>Rktect</b> <i>10:35:47 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323903.html">Re: Fast growing strands</a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:53:01 8/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323924.html">Re: Fast growing strands</a> - <b>Rktect</b> <i>10:31:17 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323874.html">Introduction + Inspiration [pic] [PIC]</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>10:35:22 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323907.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration [PIC]</a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>11:16:13 8/26/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323921.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>04:31:03 8/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323923.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>Leapy</b> <i>10:31:12 8/28/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323899.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>06:43:17 8/25/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323893.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>03:10:41 8/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323892.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:53:43 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323878.html">Re: Introduction + Inspiration </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:52:45 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323864.html">The most beautiful long hair on a man... [PIC]</a> - <b>Ryan</b> <i>05:55:25 8/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324032.html">about the woman commenting on his hair</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>15:23:07 9/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323900.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>06:43:23 8/25/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323879.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:02:29 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323872.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>08:50:02 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324029.html">Long hair becoming more prevalent in bands again</a> - <b>Paul</b> <i>10:59:02 9/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323875.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>10:35:28 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323891.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>21:44:57 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323870.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man.</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>07:01:44 8/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323880.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man. [PIC]</a> - <b>Ryan</b> <i>15:05:39 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323868.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>Gene W</b> <i>07:45:26 8/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323865.html">Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:12:57 8/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323845.html">Nearly 3 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>17:46:14 8/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323901.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>11:27:39 8/25/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323877.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>14:47:58 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323871.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>08:46:49 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323866.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:16:29 8/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323862.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Mike B</b> <i>10:32:20 8/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323858.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>07:49:32 8/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323856.html">Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic) [PIC]</a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>22:32:54 8/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323905.html">Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic) </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:57:14 8/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323861.html">Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic) </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>08:49:38 8/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323852.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>09:27:09 8/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323860.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Seminole </b> <i>08:48:25 8/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323849.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>06:40:10 8/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323854.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>17:16:25 8/18/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323848.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:47:53 8/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323853.html">Re: Nearly 3 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>17:16:19 8/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323857.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>06:00:59 8/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323859.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>08:45:52 8/19/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323850.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>06:49:17 8/18/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323847.html">Re: Nearly 3 years </a> - <b>Rock</b> <i>22:17:20 8/17/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323851.html">Thank you!</a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>06:49:22 8/18/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323842.html">4 year update</a> - <b>Mike B</b> <i>13:12:47 8/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323843.html">Re: 4 year update [PIC]</a> - <b>Mike B</b> <i>13:14:51 8/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323902.html">Re: 4 year update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>11:27:45 8/25/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323881.html">Re: 4 year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:13:22 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323867.html">Re: 4 year update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>06:20:12 8/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323869.html">Re: 4 year update </a> - <b>Mike B</b> <i>10:20:58 8/20/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323855.html">Re: 4 year update </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>17:16:30 8/18/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323840.html">Question about account changes here...</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>10:19:39 8/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323841.html">Re: Question about account changes here...</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>12:56:44 8/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323873.html">Re: Question about account changes here...</a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>08:56:14 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323838.html">Small half ponytail [PIC]</a> - <b>Minerva</b> <i>19:58:26 8/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323882.html">Re: Small half ponytail </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:16:12 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323844.html">Re: Small half ponytail </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>03:53:02 8/15/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323829.html">And another band photo... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>22:06:32 8/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323835.html">Re: And another band photo... </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>09:53:46 8/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323836.html">Re: And another band photo... </a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>11:50:55 8/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323830.html">Band members... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>22:15:18 8/11/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323828.html">Band Photo Shoot Pic... [PIC]</a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>21:59:29 8/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323817.html">27 month progress pic ! [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>11:02:34 8/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323906.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>05:59:51 8/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323883.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:22:19 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323839.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>David Lee</b> <i>10:14:43 8/14/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323832.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>JustCarol</b> <i>21:59:32 8/12/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323827.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>19:30:46 8/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323826.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>ATZ</b> <i>17:21:33 8/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323822.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>James</b> <i>16:17:31 8/10/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323818.html">Re: 27 month progress pic ! </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>11:30:45 8/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323816.html">Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>Mads1223</b> <i>03:06:24 8/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323863.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>18:17:11 8/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323820.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>DK</b> <i>12:48:04 8/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323825.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>22:32:57 8/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323834.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>Mads1223</b> <i>05:22:47 8/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323837.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>Poison Ivy</b> <i>14:01:10 8/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323833.html">Re: Is it Terminal?</a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>02:13:40 8/13/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323810.html">17 months in. [PIC]</a> - <b>Mike D</b> <i>17:36:03 8/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323884.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:27:35 8/21/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323846.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>Seminole</b> <i>17:46:20 8/17/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323819.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>11:33:56 8/10/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323815.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>Mike D</b> <i>05:51:03 8/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323814.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>02:09:35 8/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323812.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>James</b> <i>10:22:03 8/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323811.html">Re: 17 months in. </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:22:25 8/07/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323805.html">long time no see - 22 month update [PIC]</a> - <b>Minerva</b> <i>13:30:59 8/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323791.html">my stupid new years decision// starting over [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>10:29:51 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323808.html">Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over </a> - <b>DK</b> <i>18:02:47 8/05/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323803.html">My hair looks like this now.... [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>12:51:08 8/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323800.html">Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:05:11 8/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323798.html">Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over </a> - <b>brucew</b> <i>19:52:59 7/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323797.html">Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over </a> - <b>Mike D</b> <i>19:25:38 7/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323793.html">Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:21:14 7/31/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323787.html">long awaited update [PIC]</a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>04:21:32 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323799.html">Re: long awaited update </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>21:19:07 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323801.html">Re: long awaited update </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>17:09:42 8/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323792.html">Re: long awaited update [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>10:29:56 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323795.html">Re: long awaited update </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>13:41:44 7/31/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323789.html">Re: long awaited update (front) [PIC]</a> - <b>rabbit </b> <i>10:29:40 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323794.html">Re: long awaited update (front) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>11:24:34 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323796.html">Re: long awaited update (front) </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>13:41:49 7/31/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323788.html">Re: long awaited update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>04:26:32 7/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323790.html">Re: long awaited update </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>10:29:46 7/31/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323783.html">Dealing with dandruff</a> - <b>VinYang</b> <i>15:21:28 7/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323809.html">Re: Dealing with dandruff</a> - <b>DK</b> <i>18:02:52 8/05/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323786.html">Re: Dealing with dandruff</a> - <b>Just Carol</b> <i>23:28:46 7/29/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323785.html">Re: Dealing with dandruff</a> - <b>Long Hair in Albany</b> <i>20:19:00 7/29/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324209.html">Re: Dealing with dandruff</a> - <b>CarpeMors</b> <i>18:39:11 10/10/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323770.html">OK Im not gay but... [PIC]</a> - <b>jimho85</b> <i>12:19:13 7/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323774.html">Re: OK Im not gay but... </a> - <b>Rul</b> <i>07:48:09 7/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323780.html">Re: OK Im not gay but... </a> - <b>Trolleypup</b> <i>17:10:07 7/27/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323764.html">picture [PIC]</a> - <b>mike</b> <i>18:04:13 7/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323765.html">Re: picture </a> - <b>mike</b> <i>18:06:21 7/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323772.html">Re: picture </a> - <b>mike</b> <i>16:21:56 7/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323778.html">Re: picture </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>10:17:20 7/27/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323760.html">Long overdo update [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>07:08:46 7/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323821.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:57:18 8/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323824.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:20:08 8/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323813.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>12:03:00 8/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323823.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:10:10 8/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323804.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>12:51:14 8/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323806.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>15:32:49 8/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323807.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>nuttidave</b> <i>03:04:34 8/04/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323775.html">Well slap me silly and dump ice water on my head! </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>09:47:19 7/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323781.html">Re: Well slap me silly and dump ice water on my head! </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:08:42 7/27/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323773.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>05:17:28 7/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323782.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:10:20 7/27/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323769.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>06:18:07 7/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323771.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>12:28:08 7/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323762.html">dramatic update !!</a> - <b>White Tail</b> <i>07:47:16 7/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323768.html">Re: dramatic update !!</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:23:27 7/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323761.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>07:17:55 7/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323767.html">Re: Long overdo update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>05:19:36 7/24/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323751.html">monthly update..26 month progress [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands </b> <i>21:22:26 7/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323776.html">Re: monthly update..26 month progress </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>09:55:46 7/27/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323763.html">Re: monthly update..26 month progress </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>13:00:23 7/23/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323758.html">Re: monthly update..26 month progress </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>14:04:31 7/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323754.html">Re: monthly update..26 month progress </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>06:50:49 7/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323752.html">Re: monthly update..26 month progress </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:27:55 7/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323750.html">more braids [PIC]</a> - <b>steve</b> <i>09:19:07 7/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323777.html">Re: more braids </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>10:13:52 7/27/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323784.html">Re: more braids </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>18:57:47 7/29/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323759.html">Re: more braids </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>14:08:38 7/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323725.html">New Photo [PIC]</a> - <b>James</b> <i>12:07:35 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323748.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>19:33:17 7/20/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323802.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>James</b> <i>21:00:42 8/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323742.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>12:42:05 7/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323739.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>03:41:46 7/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323736.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>01:58:17 7/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323729.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:41:47 7/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323727.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>13:57:03 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323728.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>James</b> <i>16:04:19 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323735.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>01:13:27 7/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323744.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>James</b> <i>17:04:31 7/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323746.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:24:42 7/20/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323745.html">Re: New Photo </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>11:33:38 7/20/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323719.html">North Korea</a> - <b>LongHairInAlbany</b> <i>18:56:55 7/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323738.html">Re: North Korea</a> - <b>Anthony</b> <i>03:41:17 7/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323740.html">Re: North Korea</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>03:48:14 7/19/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323731.html">Possibly a bad link</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>19:57:34 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323737.html">Re: Possibly a bad link</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany </b> <i>03:38:52 7/19/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323741.html">Re: Possibly a bad link</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>10:24:27 7/19/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323722.html">Re: North Korea</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>08:03:06 7/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323726.html">Re: North Korea</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>13:50:55 7/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323723.html">Re: North Korea</a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>09:37:04 7/15/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323700.html">6 Mo. Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>17:06:29 7/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323732.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:47:04 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323749.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>07:08:36 7/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323720.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:33:30 7/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323730.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>19:56:02 7/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323747.html">Garden photos </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>19:20:02 7/20/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323713.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:27:42 7/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323717.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>16:50:28 7/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323718.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>16:53:24 7/14/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323743.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>16:33:24 7/19/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323724.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>10:24:25 7/18/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323702.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>17:56:51 7/11/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323701.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Don</b> <i>17:56:46 7/11/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323703.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>00:25:33 7/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323716.html">Re: 6 Mo. Update </a> - <b>Don</b> <i>14:50:49 7/14/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323690.html">Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Robert</b> <i>14:50:30 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323733.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>20:55:43 7/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323721.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>04:38:51 7/15/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323715.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>13:49:49 7/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323712.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:25:42 7/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323704.html">Re: Update [PIC]</a> - <b>longhairedone Steve</b> <i>03:10:36 7/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323714.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>13:49:44 7/13/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323766.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>longhairedone Steve</b> <i>19:33:18 7/23/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323694.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>RossRS</b> <i>21:29:53 7/09/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323693.html">Re: Update </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>09:02:28 7/09/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323681.html">Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>02:10:57 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323753.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Lucio</b> <i>06:50:05 7/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323734.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>21:12:28 7/18/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323711.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:23:26 7/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323706.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Tristan</b> <i>20:00:26 7/12/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323710.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>07:21:36 7/13/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323692.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>21:56:24 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323695.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>02:48:13 7/10/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323696.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>05:51:58 7/10/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323688.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>08:54:20 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323697.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:36:56 7/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323687.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>MG</b> <i>08:42:56 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323698.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:38:53 7/10/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323683.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>03:22:48 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323684.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update)</a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>04:17:18 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323691.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update) [PIC]</a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:57:21 7/08/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323699.html">Re: Markus from Austria (update) </a> - <b>Markus</b> <i>06:45:33 7/10/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323619.html">I've inspired family members :) [PIC]</a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>13:58:54 6/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323755.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Lucio</b> <i>07:07:29 7/22/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323682.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Tes</b> <i>03:14:11 7/08/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323642.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>BruceJ</b> <i>18:08:27 7/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323630.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>14:20:40 6/25/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323639.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Patrick Brands</b> <i>08:04:33 7/01/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323623.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>18:02:37 6/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323622.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:58:17 6/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323621.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>MG</b> <i>16:57:24 6/24/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323620.html">Re: I've inspired family members :) </a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>14:37:52 6/24/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323540.html">5 year update [PIC]</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:34:43 6/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323567.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>r</b> <i>22:25:05 6/07/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323887.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:55:05 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323556.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>17:23:17 6/06/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323886.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:51:02 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323554.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>Bruce J</b> <i>23:42:33 6/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323888.html">Thanks Bruce! (N/T)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:56:30 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323546.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>Absalom</b> <i>15:58:26 6/05/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323831.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>12:07:07 8/12/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323544.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>17:16:20 6/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323889.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:03:11 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323541.html">Re: 5 year update </a> - <b>sj</b> <i>13:44:55 6/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323890.html">Thank you! (N/T)</a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>16:05:05 8/21/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323454.html">Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Jason's Shadow</b> <i>19:46:54 5/21/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323534.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>16:44:27 6/02/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323535.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Native Carolinian</b> <i>16:47:23 6/02/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323485.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>11:35:47 5/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323482.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Validus</b> <i>07:56:31 5/26/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323464.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>elektros</b> <i>17:41:06 5/23/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323756.html">Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?</a> - <b>Lucio</b> <i>08:01:05 7/22/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323292.html">15 Month Update [PIC]</a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>16:45:19 4/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323779.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>14:02:51 7/27/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323310.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>The Spaf Man</b> <i>11:05:30 4/24/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323322.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>08:12:27 4/28/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323326.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>The Spaf Man</b> <i>10:27:21 4/30/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323299.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Steve</b> <i>14:19:16 4/18/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323320.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>08:02:07 4/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323295.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>rabbit</b> <i>05:53:28 4/16/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323319.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>07:58:57 4/28/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323293.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Ted</b> <i>19:17:46 4/15/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323318.html">Re: 15 Month Update </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>07:56:11 4/28/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323227.html">Here's a really long ponytail [PIC]</a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>16:25:54 3/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324880.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Jason</b> <i>16:49:06 4/01/17</i>
<li><a href="messages/323263.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>doninoz</b> <i>01:31:46 4/06/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323261.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Viktor</b> <i>14:01:55 4/04/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323757.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Lucio</b> <i>09:18:49 7/22/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323244.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>16:20:31 4/02/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323233.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Joe</b> <i>08:38:50 4/01/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323232.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>23:44:49 3/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323231.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:17:15 3/31/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/323229.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>16:42:02 3/31/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323235.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Jacob</b> <i>13:54:59 4/01/16</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/323236.html">Oh sorry, I thought it was you, it's beautiful anyway (N/T)</a> - <b>Guilherme S.</b> <i>15:25:42 4/01/16</i>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/323228.html">Re: Here's a really long ponytail </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>16:41:01 3/31/16</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/321811.html">7 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Dak </b> <i>14:12:04 10/24/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321861.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>PhilipZ</b> <i>15:53:51 10/30/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321844.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>23:10:56 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321840.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Ken in SF</b> <i>21:17:52 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321829.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>A.D.</b> <i>19:56:39 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321821.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Bob J</b> <i>10:16:26 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321818.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>John</b> <i>05:27:33 10/25/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321824.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Dak </b> <i>11:53:39 10/25/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/324062.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Dak</b> <i>12:24:00 9/13/16</i>
<li><a href="messages/321849.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>09:08:50 10/26/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321850.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Long Hair In Albany</b> <i>04:29:16 10/27/15</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/321817.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Marx</b> <i>05:07:48 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321813.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Marco</b> <i>18:38:56 10/24/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321812.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>14:19:14 10/24/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321814.html">Re: 7 years [PIC]</a> - <b>Dak </b> <i>18:39:01 10/24/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321828.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Lucian</b> <i>17:38:12 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321816.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Raymond</b> <i>22:15:50 10/24/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321823.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Dak </b> <i>11:53:33 10/25/15</i>
</ul>
<li><a href="messages/321815.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Hairball</b> <i>18:51:45 10/24/15</i>
<ul>
<li><a href="messages/321845.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>J.M.M.</b> <i>23:39:16 10/25/15</i>
<li><a href="messages/321819.html">Re: 7 years </a> - <b>Dak </b> <i>05:43:30 10/25/15</i>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<BR> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
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> * [Hair goals](messages/328372.html) - **Darrin** *09:11:04 12/07/23*
> + [Re: Hair goals](messages/328374.html) - **Todd** *03:54:43 12/17/23*
> - [Re: Hair goals](messages/328376.html) - **Darrin** *02:38:09 12/26/23*+ [Re: Hair goals](messages/328373.html) - **Jesus Forain** *08:36:54 12/12/23** [Hair goals](messages/328371.html) - **Darrin** *09:06:47 12/07/23** [Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare [PIC]](messages/328366.html) - **João David** *12:05:42 11/17/23*
> + [Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare](messages/328370.html) - **A.D.** *15:37:33 11/24/23*+ [Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare](messages/328369.html) - **Darrin** *17:32:03 11/22/23*+ [Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare](messages/328368.html) - **Darrin** *17:25:47 11/22/23*+ [Re: Knee length, going shorter and hair loss scare](messages/328367.html) - **Hairball** *17:09:49 11/17/23** [Singer Josh Quaye](messages/328359.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:15:46 10/12/23*
> + [Re: Singer Josh Quaye](messages/328363.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:48:30 10/16/23*
> - [Re: Singer Josh Quaye](messages/328365.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:29:15 10/22/23*+ [Re: Singer Josh Quaye](messages/328362.html) - **Yadgar** *21:25:32 10/12/23*
> - [Yes I do! :) (n/t)](messages/328364.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:10:26 10/22/23** [Hair growth [PIC]](messages/328348.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:25:53 10/02/23*
> + [Re: Hair growth](messages/328354.html) - **Kris** *03:15:56 10/07/23*
> - [Re: Hair growth](messages/328358.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:30:34 10/09/23*+ [Re: Hair growth](messages/328353.html) - **Darrin** *02:31:35 10/06/23*+ [Re: Hair growth](messages/328351.html) - **Hairball** *16:50:00 10/03/23*
> - [Re: Hair growth](messages/328352.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:36:07 10/05/23** [18 months of growth [PIC]](messages/328345.html) - **Kris** *04:33:04 10/01/23*
> + [Re: 18 months of growth](messages/328350.html) - **Darrin** *02:45:59 10/03/23*
> - [Re: 18 months of growth](messages/328356.html) - **Luigi** *17:40:51 10/07/23*+ [Re: 18 months of growth](messages/328346.html) - **Hairball** *04:47:57 10/01/23*
> - [Re: 18 months of growth](messages/328349.html) - **Kris** *02:45:54 10/03/23** [62 and growing [PIC]](messages/328326.html) - **George Wheeler** *02:51:10 9/17/23*
> + [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328361.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:56:16 10/12/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328355.html) - **John Doe** *03:16:02 10/07/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328347.html) - **Hairball** *04:52:41 10/01/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328340.html) - **Darrin** *06:10:57 9/26/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328332.html) - **A.D.** *15:03:26 9/19/23*
> - [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328341.html) - **Toolong Girlyhair** *16:44:23 9/26/23*
> * [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328343.html) - **A.D.** *19:23:06 9/27/23** [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328342.html) - **Tim** *02:46:25 9/27/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328331.html) - **Kris** *17:38:40 9/18/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328329.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:26:04 9/18/23*+ [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328327.html) - **Tim** *02:44:53 9/18/23*
> - [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328330.html) - **George Wheeler** *17:38:35 9/18/23*
> * [Re: 62 and growing](messages/328344.html) - **Tony** *16:35:52 9/29/23** [Update [PIC]](messages/328320.html) - **Darrin** *13:19:31 9/08/23*
> + [Re: Update](messages/328328.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:23:38 9/18/23*
> - [Re: Update](messages/328357.html) - **Darrin** *17:40:56 10/07/23** [Update... [PIC]](messages/328319.html) - **yoshiki** *15:58:21 9/04/23*
> + [Re: Update...](messages/328333.html) - **A.D.** *15:10:51 9/19/23*+ [Re: Update...](messages/328322.html) - **Andy** *03:53:50 9/12/23** [Update [PIC]](messages/328314.html) - **Andy** *04:36:22 9/03/23*
> + [Re: Update](messages/328334.html) - **A.D.** *15:12:36 9/19/23*
> - [Re: Update](messages/328337.html) - **Andy** *04:31:18 9/24/23*
> * [Re: Update](messages/328339.html) - **A.D.** *19:15:16 9/25/23*+ [Re: Update](messages/328323.html) - **luke** *02:50:14 9/15/23*
> - [Re: Update](messages/328338.html) - **Andy** *04:31:25 9/24/23*+ [Another angle [PIC]](messages/328321.html) - **Andy** *03:53:44 9/12/23*
> - [Re: Another angle](messages/328325.html) - **Kalps** *17:24:40 9/15/23*+ [Pony [PIC]](messages/328316.html) - **Andy** *04:50:36 9/04/23*
> - [Re: Pony](messages/328336.html) - **Sim** *02:48:13 9/22/23*+ [Re: Update](messages/328315.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:16:41 9/03/23** [Update. [PIC]](messages/328312.html) - **Lance** *02:50:49 8/30/23*
> + [Re: Update.](messages/328335.html) - **A.D.** *15:15:13 9/19/23*+ [Re: Update.](messages/328313.html) - **Hairball** *03:51:22 9/02/23*
> - [Re: Update. [PIC]](messages/328317.html) - **Lance** *04:50:42 9/04/23*
> * [Re: Update.](messages/328318.html) - **Hairball** *15:45:55 9/04/23** [15 months of growth [PIC]](messages/328307.html) - **Kris** *16:29:25 8/14/23*
> + [Re: 15 months of growth](messages/328311.html) - **Darrin** *16:58:32 8/28/23*+ [Re: 15 months of growth](messages/328309.html) - **Jesus Forain** *07:57:24 8/21/23** [Letting it hang loose [PIC]](messages/328304.html) - **Kris** *02:53:24 7/31/23** [Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain [PIC]](messages/328294.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:27:37 6/27/23*
> + [Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain](messages/328303.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:09:28 7/15/23*+ [Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain](messages/328296.html) - **Hairball** *16:56:08 6/27/23*
> - [Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain](messages/328297.html) - **Jesus Forain** *08:56:49 6/29/23*+ [Re: Meeting between Anthony and Jesus Forain [PIC]](messages/328295.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:31:16 6/27/23** [Hair loss](messages/328293.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:14:20 6/11/23*
> + [Re: Hair loss](messages/328302.html) - **Darrin** *12:13:15 7/14/23** [Update [PIC]](messages/328292.html) - **A.D.** *17:39:17 6/10/23** [Long Hair at 65 [PIC]](messages/328291.html) - **A.D.** *17:39:12 6/10/23*
> + [Re: Long Hair at 65](messages/328305.html) - **Kenneth** *02:52:21 8/03/23*
> - [Re: Long Hair at 65](messages/328306.html) - **A.D.** *02:52:18 8/08/23** [Update [PIC]](messages/328289.html) - **James** *22:06:01 5/29/23*
> + [Re: Update](messages/328290.html) - **Hairball** *16:51:22 6/04/23*
> - [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/328298.html) - **James** *22:32:35 6/30/23*
> * [Re: Update](messages/328299.html) - **Hairball** *18:30:36 7/02/23** [New to thread 1 year growth [PIC]](messages/328282.html) - **Kris** *15:57:56 5/13/23*
> + [Re: New to thread 1 year growth](messages/328284.html) - **Yadgar** *02:52:55 5/19/23*
> - [Re: New to thread 1 year growth](messages/328287.html) - **Kris** *04:37:03 5/21/23*- [Re: New to thread 1 year growth](messages/328285.html) - **Darrin** *04:32:11 5/20/23** [Growing... [PIC]](messages/328280.html) - **Michael** *15:00:00 5/11/23*
> + [Re: Growing...](messages/328286.html) - **Darrin** *04:32:58 5/20/23*+ [Re: Growing...](messages/328281.html) - **sreve** *18:01:39 5/12/23** [Hair growth update at 43 years old. [PIC]](messages/328278.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:32:14 5/09/23*
> + [Re: Hair growth update at 43 years old.](messages/328288.html) - **lifobryan** *17:37:30 5/26/23** [Exhibition about hair in Paris](messages/328274.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:43:17 4/10/23** [Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]](messages/328271.html) - **Yadgar** *16:44:09 3/22/23*
> + [Re: Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]](messages/328273.html) - **Yadgar** *03:48:37 3/24/23*+ [Re: Graphic AI opening the gates to longhair paradise! [PIC]](messages/328272.html) - **Yadgar** *03:46:08 3/24/23** [Two knee length guys](messages/328267.html) - **Marco** *10:40:08 3/05/23*
> + [Re: Two knee length guys](messages/328268.html) - **Darrin** *12:38:43 3/05/23** [55 inches shaved off](messages/328260.html) - **Marco** *13:02:36 2/26/23*
> + [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328301.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:43:34 7/10/23*+ [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328263.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:44:12 2/27/23*
> - [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328264.html) - **Hairball** *16:59:49 2/27/23*
> * [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328265.html) - **Jesus Forain** *15:00:17 2/28/23*+ [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328262.html) - **Marco** *15:29:05 2/26/23*+ [Re: 55 inches shaved off](messages/328261.html) - **Hairball** *14:49:46 2/26/23** [Getting older, losing my hair....... [PIC]](messages/328256.html) - **Onslow** *17:26:21 2/16/23*
> + [Re: Getting older, losing my hair.......](messages/328269.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:07:36 3/11/23*+ [Re: Getting older, losing my hair.......](messages/328258.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:17:16 2/18/23*
> - [Re: Getting older, losing my hair.......](messages/328259.html) - **Darrin** *12:10:32 2/18/23*+ [Re: Getting older, losing my hair.......](messages/328257.html) - **Darrin** *15:19:40 2/17/23** [Mane and beard at 53 [PIC]](messages/328254.html) - **Yadgar** *05:36:09 1/14/23** [Growing... [PIC]](messages/328249.html) - **Michael** *02:47:59 12/23/22*
> + [Re: Growing...](messages/328250.html) - **steve b** *15:25:49 12/24/22** [ChatGPT AI is growing its hair](messages/328247.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:59:52 12/21/22** [2023: First longhair in space!](messages/328244.html) - **Yadgar** *11:53:10 12/19/22*
> + [Re: 2023: First longhair in space!](messages/328248.html) - **Georges Huard** *05:16:07 12/22/22*+ [Re: 2023: First longhair in space!](messages/328245.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:53:04 12/20/22** [Mens pigtails/double ponytails](messages/328242.html) - **A\_Okyes** *16:40:40 12/18/22*
> + [Re: Mens pigtails/double ponytails](messages/328243.html) - **Tommmm** *02:46:14 12/19/22*
> - [Re: Mens pigtails/double ponytails](messages/328270.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:24:32 3/11/23** [Back on the journey :)](messages/328238.html) - **Patrick Brands** *16:58:13 12/16/22*
> + [Re: Back on the journey :) [PIC]](messages/328239.html) - **Patrick Brands** *04:52:48 12/17/22*
> - [Re: Back on the journey :)](messages/328375.html) - **Scott from Nottingham** *14:48:55 12/20/23*- [Better picture [PIC]](messages/328252.html) - **Patrick Brands** *19:08:26 1/02/23*- [Re: Back on the journey :)](messages/328241.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:19:29 12/17/22** [Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]](messages/328225.html) - **Glinka** *20:01:38 12/09/22*
> + [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes](messages/328324.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:11:39 9/15/23*+ [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]](messages/328237.html) - **Georges Huard** *05:02:16 12/16/22*+ [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes [PIC]](messages/328236.html) - **Georges Huard** *05:00:34 12/16/22*+ [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes](messages/328233.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:38:07 12/11/22*+ [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes](messages/328226.html) - **Hairball** *04:35:08 12/10/22*
> - [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes](messages/328229.html) - **Glinka** *17:16:10 12/10/22*
> * [Re: Hello Again Fellow Long haired Dudes](messages/328230.html) - **Hairball** *05:04:40 12/11/22** [Photo 12/07/22 [PIC]](messages/328221.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:54:03 12/07/22*
> + [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328234.html) - **A** *11:41:43 12/15/22*
> - [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328240.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:01:29 12/17/22*+ [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328227.html) - **Hairball** *04:40:19 12/10/22*
> - [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328231.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:25:51 12/11/22*+ [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328222.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:34:43 12/08/22*
> - [Re: Photo 12/07/22](messages/328232.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:26:54 12/11/22** [Hair Growth Update [PIC]](messages/328197.html) - **Bob J** *19:45:39 10/09/22** [A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328184.html) - **Hairball** *18:07:30 10/05/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328360.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:33:59 10/12/23*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328300.html) - **Scott from Nottingham** *04:09:07 7/04/23*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328283.html) - **CTB** *04:40:30 5/14/23*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328275.html) - **Duncan Roy** *05:06:04 4/14/23*+ [Gone but Not Forgotten](messages/328224.html) - **Glinka** *19:46:02 12/09/22*+ [Gone but Not Forgotten](messages/328223.html) - **Glinka** *19:20:52 12/09/22*
> - [Re: Gone but Not Forgotten](messages/328228.html) - **Hairball** *04:47:37 12/10/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328218.html) - **Gman** *02:46:21 12/02/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328207.html) - **Ted** *04:43:00 10/22/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328208.html) - **Hairball** *05:03:30 10/22/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328212.html) - **Ted** *22:02:20 11/28/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328213.html) - **Ted** *22:05:22 11/28/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328216.html) - **Hairball** *16:03:25 11/29/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328219.html) - **Ted** *14:45:54 12/05/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328203.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:08:16 10/12/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328209.html) - **Hairball** *05:17:33 10/22/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328211.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:16:19 11/08/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328202.html) - **Georges Huard** *12:48:23 10/11/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328210.html) - **Hairball** *05:20:22 10/22/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328191.html) - **Jason** *16:51:21 10/08/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328214.html) - **Ted** *22:09:13 11/28/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328217.html) - **Jason** *15:34:21 12/01/22*- [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328194.html) - **Hairball** *05:04:12 10/09/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328195.html) - **Jason** *16:33:00 10/09/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328199.html) - **Hairball** *05:06:33 10/10/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328200.html) - **DavidN** *11:38:49 10/10/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328185.html) - **DavidN** *09:58:00 10/06/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328186.html) - **Hairball** *16:05:58 10/06/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328215.html) - **Ted** *22:11:55 11/28/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328220.html) - **Hairball** *16:59:45 12/05/22** [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328187.html) - **DavidN** *02:23:35 10/07/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328192.html) - **Jason** *17:00:45 10/08/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328193.html) - **DavudN** *01:46:00 10/09/22*
> * [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF [PIC]](messages/328196.html) - **Jason** *16:37:36 10/09/22*
> + [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328205.html) - **Anthony** *13:18:20 10/17/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328206.html) - **Jason** *07:43:40 10/21/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328198.html) - **DavidN** *01:34:31 10/10/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328201.html) - **Jason** *16:41:53 10/10/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328189.html) - **Absalom** *04:52:54 10/08/22*
> - [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328190.html) - **DavidN** *07:03:31 10/08/22*+ [Re: A Tribute To Ken In SF](messages/328188.html) - **Hairball** *15:11:55 10/07/22** [11 Years Update (video) [PIC]](messages/328168.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:33:42 9/08/22*
> + [Re: 11 Years Update (video)](messages/328172.html) - **Hairball** *04:27:18 9/10/22*
> - [Re: 11 Years Update (video)](messages/328174.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:09:03 9/13/22*+ [Re: 11 Years Update (video)](messages/328171.html) - **Darrin** *04:18:02 9/10/22*
> - [Re: 11 Years Update (video)](messages/328173.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:49:52 9/13/22*
> * [Re: 11 Years Update (video)](messages/328177.html) - **Darrin** *18:28:46 9/13/22** [Recent hair pic [PIC]](messages/328163.html) - **Darrin** *06:37:03 9/02/22*
> + [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328182.html) - **A.D.** *11:58:35 9/25/22*
> - [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328253.html) - **Cesar** *02:45:01 1/06/23*
> * [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328255.html) - **Darrin** *20:20:20 1/28/23*+ [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328179.html) - **Georges** *10:09:12 9/19/22*
> - [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328180.html) - **Darrin** *18:18:12 9/20/22*+ [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328175.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:14:42 9/13/22*
> - [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328181.html) - **Darrin** *18:20:05 9/20/22*+ [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328167.html) - **longhairandfurs** *02:34:23 9/07/22*
> - [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328170.html) - **Darrin** *02:43:46 9/09/22*- [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328169.html) - **Darrin** *02:43:40 9/09/22*+ [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328165.html) - **Lance** *22:09:39 9/03/22*
> - [Re: Recent hair pic](messages/328166.html) - **Darrin** *22:17:23 9/03/22** [Hair Update. [PIC]](messages/328155.html) - **Lance** *04:21:02 8/28/22*
> + [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328204.html) - **Bob J** *22:27:06 10/14/22*+ [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328176.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:20:50 9/13/22*+ [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328161.html) - **yoshiki** *06:49:26 8/31/22*
> - [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328162.html) - **Lance** *03:56:58 9/01/22*+ [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328159.html) - **A.D.** *16:36:51 8/29/22*
> - [Re: Hair Update. [PIC]](messages/328160.html) - **Lance** *00:53:36 8/31/22*+ [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328156.html) - **Darrin** *14:20:52 8/28/22*
> - [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328157.html) - **Lance** *22:30:58 8/28/22*
> * [Re: Hair Update.](messages/328158.html) - **Darrin** *16:36:46 8/29/22** [What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?](messages/328147.html) - **Balding Longhair** *02:39:32 8/25/22*
> + [Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?](messages/328150.html) - **yoshiki** *11:00:15 8/25/22*
> - [Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?](messages/328151.html) - **Balding Longhair** *14:58:00 8/25/22*
> * [Re: What do I do with my long hair now that I'm balding?](messages/328153.html) - **yoshiki** *23:05:25 8/26/22** [Relocating, job search with long hair? [PIC]](messages/328145.html) - **Lance** *02:40:13 8/24/22*
> + [Re: Relocating, job search with long hair?](messages/328146.html) - **Darrin** *19:01:22 8/24/22*
> - [Re: Relocating, job search with long hair?](messages/328148.html) - **Lance** *02:39:37 8/25/22*
> * [Re: Relocating, job search with long hair?](messages/328149.html) - **Darrin** *07:55:20 8/25/22*
> + [Re: Relocating, job search with long hair?](messages/328152.html) - **Lance** *02:36:03 8/26/22*
> - [Re: Relocating, job search with long hair?](messages/328154.html) - **Darrin** *04:46:35 8/27/22** [Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328138.html) - **Jesus Forain** *01:49:02 8/15/22*
> + [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328144.html) - **Darrin** *12:02:43 8/22/22*+ [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328139.html) - **Yadgar** *12:34:10 8/18/22*
> - [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328141.html) - **Anthony** *08:15:25 8/21/22*
> * [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328143.html) - **Yadgar** *08:46:18 8/21/22*- [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328140.html) - **Jesus Forain** *02:49:32 8/21/22*
> * [Re: Long hair, summer and heat: tricks to stay cool](messages/328142.html) - **Yadgar** *08:43:49 8/21/22** [Summer '22 update... [PIC]](messages/328127.html) - **yoshiki** *21:50:49 6/15/22*
> + [Re: Summer '22 update...](messages/328135.html) - **A.D.** *03:42:11 6/21/22*
> - [Re: Summer '22 update... [PIC]](messages/328136.html) - **yoshiki** *16:50:00 6/23/22*+ [Re: Summer '22 update...](messages/328134.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:17:49 6/20/22*+ [Re: Summer '22 update...](messages/328133.html) - **steve b** *20:56:19 6/18/22*+ [Re: Summer '22 update...](messages/328131.html) - **MG** *22:46:21 6/16/22*+ [Re: Summer '22 update...](messages/328130.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:08:31 6/16/22** [Knee-length](messages/328126.html) - **Marco** *02:50:44 6/09/22*
> + [Re: Knee-length](messages/328129.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:00:21 6/16/22** [first time growing my hair [PIC]](messages/328116.html) - **steve b** *04:41:30 6/04/22*
> + [Re: first time growing my hair](messages/328118.html) - **Gene W** *18:44:55 6/05/22** [Did someone say tail? [PIC]](messages/328114.html) - **Ponytail Boy** *02:40:01 6/03/22*
> + [Re: Did someone say tail?](messages/328121.html) - **Kalps** *02:35:41 6/06/22*+ [Re: Did someone say tail?](messages/328117.html) - **MG** *04:41:36 6/04/22*
> - [Re: Did someone say tail?](messages/328119.html) - **Gene W** *18:48:11 6/05/22** [Hair and beard update [PIC]](messages/328106.html) - **Jesus Forain** *07:48:57 5/29/22*
> + [Re: Hair and beard update](messages/328107.html) - **lifobryan** *02:38:54 5/31/22** [I reached the 10 year mark [video] [PIC]](messages/328098.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:29:50 5/28/22*
> + [Re: I reached the 10 year mark [video]](messages/328103.html) - **Hairball** *16:43:59 5/28/22*+ [Re: I reached the 10 year mark [video]](messages/328102.html) - **Yadgar** *13:09:49 5/28/22** [Natural colour. [PIC]](messages/328094.html) - **Andrew** *17:05:42 5/25/22*
> + [Re: Natural colour. [PIC]](messages/328164.html) - **James** *22:08:36 9/03/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328178.html) - **Darrin** *18:27:12 9/16/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328137.html) - **alex2000** *04:43:30 8/07/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328128.html) - **yoshiki** *21:53:14 6/15/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328132.html) - **Andrew** *03:50:51 6/18/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328113.html) - **steve b** *16:54:21 6/02/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328125.html) - **Andrew** *02:38:15 6/08/22*- [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328115.html) - **steve b** *04:41:24 6/04/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328104.html) - **Hairball** *16:49:17 5/28/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328108.html) - **Andrew** *02:38:59 5/31/22*
> * [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328111.html) - **Hairball** *16:16:13 5/31/22*
> + [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328112.html) - **Andrew** *02:36:55 6/01/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328100.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:26:26 5/28/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328109.html) - **Andrew** *02:39:04 5/31/22*+ [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328097.html) - **lifobryan** *18:48:56 5/27/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328110.html) - **Andrew** *02:39:10 5/31/22*
> * [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328122.html) - **nativecarolinian** *16:39:32 6/06/22*
> + [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328123.html) - **Andrew** *02:38:04 6/08/22*+ [Re: Natural colour. [PIC]](messages/328096.html) - **Andrew** *17:45:12 5/26/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328266.html) - **Sim** *02:44:43 3/01/23*+ [Re: Natural colour. [PIC]](messages/328095.html) - **Andrew** *17:45:07 5/26/22*
> - [Re: Natural colour.](messages/328308.html) - **kalps** *04:10:35 8/20/23** [The girls at work [PIC]](messages/328093.html) - **Andrew** *17:05:37 5/25/22*
> + [Re: The girls at work](messages/328120.html) - **Gene W** *18:49:37 6/05/22*
> - [Re: The girls at work](messages/328124.html) - **Andrew** *02:38:10 6/08/22** [Still growing [PIC]](messages/328086.html) - **Cary** *02:40:52 4/25/22*
> + [Re: Still growing](messages/328092.html) - **Darrin** *08:55:38 5/10/22*+ [Re: Still growing](messages/328090.html) - **Georges Huard** *07:30:59 4/28/22*+ [Re: Still growing](messages/328088.html) - **Hairball** *02:49:25 4/25/22*
> - [Re: Still growing](messages/328089.html) - **Cary** *16:51:26 4/25/22** [Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328081.html) - **Jesus Forain** *14:39:05 4/07/22*
> + [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328101.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:53:21 5/28/22*
> - [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328105.html) - **Amz** *04:30:49 5/29/22*+ [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328091.html) - **Georges Huard** *07:34:01 4/28/22*+ [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328084.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:21:02 4/13/22*+ [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328083.html) - **Gene W** *18:30:59 4/11/22*+ [Re: Are long haired man being getting common?](messages/328082.html) - **Anthony** *11:27:50 4/08/22** [Greetings again](messages/328072.html) - **nativecarolinian** *02:36:55 3/09/22*
> + [Re: Greetings again [PIC]](messages/328076.html) - **Jennifer** *04:38:27 3/27/22*
> - [Re: Greetings again](messages/328080.html) - **Yadgar** *10:45:55 4/02/22*- [Re: Greetings again](messages/328078.html) - **nativecarolinian** *14:29:32 3/27/22*+ [Re: Greetings again](messages/328075.html) - **Darrin** *08:21:20 3/10/22*+ [Re: Greetings again](messages/328074.html) - **Darrin** *08:21:19 3/10/22** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/328067.html) - **Anthony** *03:46:42 3/02/22*
> + [Re: Hair update [PIC]](messages/328085.html) - **James** *19:40:34 4/13/22*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/328073.html) - **Georges Huard** *12:32:27 3/09/22*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/328069.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:48:50 3/02/22*
> - [Re: Hair update [PIC]](messages/328070.html) - **Anthony** *15:44:33 3/02/22*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/328068.html) - **Darrin** *08:37:33 3/02/22*
> - [Re: Hair update](messages/328071.html) - **Anthony** *15:49:21 3/02/22** [5+ Years [PIC]](messages/328063.html) - **RossRS** *04:21:51 2/20/22*
> + [Re: 5+ Years](messages/328065.html) - **Darrin** *08:26:44 2/23/22** [Progress Report](messages/328061.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *14:16:27 2/14/22*
> + [Re: Progress Report](messages/328064.html) - **Bruce J** *05:10:15 2/23/22*+ [Re: Progress Report](messages/328062.html) - **Darrin** *12:33:54 2/15/22** [Internet](messages/328052.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *05:55:29 2/03/22*
> + [Re: Internet](messages/328059.html) - **Anthony** *13:56:01 2/06/22*+ [Re: Internet](messages/328057.html) - **Jesus Forain** *06:43:28 2/05/22*
> - [Re: Internet](messages/328058.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *22:38:06 2/05/22*
> * [Re: Internet](messages/328060.html) - **Yadgar** *20:22:11 2/07/22*+ [Re: Internet](messages/328055.html) - **Mike** *18:03:08 2/03/22*+ [Re: Internet](messages/328054.html) - **Yadgar** *13:20:02 2/03/22*
> - [Re: Internet](messages/328056.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *21:10:32 2/03/22** [Greetings from an old-timer [PIC]](messages/328047.html) - **Peter** *17:04:36 2/01/22*
> + [Re: Greetings from an old-timer](messages/328079.html) - **Deanof316** *02:35:25 3/28/22*+ [Re: Greetings from an old-timer](messages/328053.html) - **Peter** *11:21:34 2/03/22*+ [Re: Greetings from an old-timer](messages/328051.html) - **Yadgar** *11:52:40 2/02/22*+ [Re: Greetings from an old-timer [PIC]](messages/328050.html) - **Yadgar** *11:47:26 2/02/22*+ [Re: Greetings from an old-timer](messages/328049.html) - **DavidN** *01:54:05 2/02/22*+ [Re: Greetings from an old-timer](messages/328048.html) - **Hairball** *18:28:04 2/01/22** [Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)](messages/328041.html) - **Jesus Forain** *15:25:07 1/22/22*
> + [Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)](messages/328045.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:32:39 1/30/22*+ [Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)](messages/328044.html) - **Hairball** *15:13:17 1/25/22*+ [Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)](messages/328042.html) - **Gene W** *07:40:38 1/25/22*
> - [Re: Happy birthday MLHH (25 years)](messages/328043.html) - **Darrin** *08:46:27 1/25/22** [Trim or let grow [PIC]](messages/328032.html) - **Cary** *05:04:11 1/16/22*
> + [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328039.html) - **Anthony** *03:50:18 1/19/22*
> - [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328046.html) - **Cary** *02:45:51 1/31/22*+ [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328038.html) - **Darrin** *19:06:12 1/17/22*+ [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328037.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:57:49 1/17/22*+ [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328033.html) - **Hairball** *05:07:51 1/16/22*
> - [Re: Trim or let grow](messages/328035.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:29:34 1/17/22** [2021/22 [PIC]](messages/328029.html) - **yoshiki** *22:50:54 12/24/21*
> + [Re: 2021/22](messages/328034.html) - **Hairball** *05:11:16 1/16/22*+ [Re: 2021/22](messages/328030.html) - **MG** *23:07:12 12/24/21** [Happy Christmas](messages/328027.html) - **Anthony** *15:05:48 12/23/21*
> + [Re: Happy Christmas](messages/328028.html) - **Hairball** *15:58:00 12/24/21** [Successful regrowth](messages/328024.html) - **Sam** *02:35:53 12/08/21*
> + [Re: Successful regrowth](messages/328025.html) - **Ned from Oz** *16:17:23 12/15/21*
> - [Re: Successful regrowth](messages/328031.html) - **Sam** *02:47:43 12/27/21** [Hair Front View [PIC]](messages/328020.html) - **James** *22:36:22 11/12/21** [1 Year Update At The Persimmon Tree [PIC]](messages/328019.html) - **Don** *18:39:05 11/07/21*
> + [Fall Colors [PIC]](messages/328023.html) - **Don** *08:41:04 12/02/21*+ [Fall Colors [PIC]](messages/328022.html) - **Don** *08:41:02 12/02/21** [Back view [PIC]](messages/328012.html) - **Jesus Forain** *02:20:00 10/30/21*
> + [Photo editor magic [PIC]](messages/328017.html) - **Pete\_J** *18:48:31 11/03/21*+ [Re: Back view](messages/328013.html) - **Hairball** *17:17:40 10/30/21*
> - [Re: Back view](messages/328014.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:20:00 11/01/21** [Texas](messages/328010.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *18:04:09 10/26/21*
> + [Re: Texas](messages/328011.html) - **Gene W** *08:51:05 10/27/21** [Guy with long hairpiece [PIC]](messages/328001.html) - **changedmydisguise** *05:08:46 10/17/21*
> + [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328021.html) - **Mike** *18:50:32 11/14/21*+ [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328008.html) - **Gene W** *07:28:03 10/22/21*
> - [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328009.html) - **changedmydisguise** *05:01:29 10/24/21*+ [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328003.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *12:42:10 10/18/21*
> - [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328005.html) - **changedmydisguise** *16:28:55 10/18/21*+ [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328002.html) - **Gene W** *06:47:35 10/18/21*
> - [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328004.html) - **changedmydisguise** *16:28:50 10/18/21*
> * [Re: Guy with long hairpiece. photo](messages/328007.html) - **changedmydisguise** *16:01:24 10/19/21*
> + [Re: Guy with long hairpiece. photo](messages/328015.html) - **doninisrael** *04:35:01 11/03/21** [Re: Guy with long hairpiece](messages/328006.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *12:42:51 10/19/21** [Pony [PIC]](messages/327999.html) - **Andrew** *04:59:03 10/11/21*
> + [Re: Pony](messages/328000.html) - **MG** *22:53:09 10/11/21** [Hair grows uneven](messages/327998.html) - **Darrin** *08:07:40 10/08/21** [Turned 59 yesterday [PIC]](messages/327991.html) - **James** *10:00:35 10/01/21*
> + [Re: Turned 59 yesterday](messages/327995.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *09:49:33 10/04/21*+ [Re: Turned 59 yesterday](messages/327994.html) - **Anthony** *05:01:32 10/03/21*+ [Re: Turned 59 yesterday](messages/327993.html) - **Darrin** *15:28:29 10/01/21*+ [Re: Turned 59 yesterday](messages/327992.html) - **Darrin** *15:28:28 10/01/21*
> - [Re: Turned 59 yesterday [PIC]](messages/327996.html) - **James** *20:09:02 10/07/21** [Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327982.html) - **Avi** *13:10:47 9/21/21*
> + [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327997.html) - **wkm** *04:07:10 10/08/21*+ [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327990.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *16:24:17 9/25/21*+ [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327988.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:35:31 9/23/21*+ [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327983.html) - **Hairball** *16:08:21 9/21/21*
> - [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327984.html) - **Avi** *02:28:46 9/22/21*
> * [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327985.html) - **Hairball** *02:40:09 9/22/21*
> + [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327986.html) - **Avi** *12:17:28 9/22/21*
> - [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327989.html) - **Hairball** *15:47:09 9/23/21*- [Re: Hair update- I got a haircut :(](messages/327987.html) - **Anthony** *11:01:22 9/23/21** [Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC? [PIC]](messages/327980.html) - **Erik Christensen** *16:03:05 9/09/21*
> + [Re: Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC?](messages/327981.html) - **Shawn** *19:20:34 9/12/21*
> - [Re: Any Fellow Longhairs In or Around Washington DC?](messages/328077.html) - **Jennifer** *04:38:34 3/27/22** [Isaac Newton](messages/327975.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *07:37:31 8/24/21*
> + [Re: Isaac Newton [PIC]](messages/327976.html) - **Georges Huard** *08:13:07 8/24/21*
> - [Re: Isaac Newton](messages/327977.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:11:01 8/24/21** [42 years of long hair. [PIC]](messages/327971.html) - **Georges Huard** *16:20:30 8/21/21*
> + [Re: 42 years of long hair.](messages/327974.html) - **Yadgar** *06:35:12 8/23/21*+ [Re: 42 years of long hair. [PIC]](messages/327972.html) - **Hairball** *16:00:12 8/22/21*
> - [Corrected image orientation [PIC]](messages/327973.html) - **Hairball** *16:02:54 8/22/21** [My hair update in a long while [PIC]](messages/327962.html) - **Shawn** *15:51:10 8/11/21*
> + [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/328026.html) - **Stephan** *02:44:43 12/22/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/328018.html) - **Bob J** *03:49:38 11/06/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327969.html) - **Georges Huard** *15:43:27 8/17/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327968.html) - **Bob J** *02:28:37 8/17/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327967.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:57:42 8/15/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while [PIC]](messages/327966.html) - **longhair511** *14:54:49 8/14/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327965.html) - **lifobryan** *02:27:54 8/13/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327964.html) - **MG** *02:42:38 8/12/21*+ [Re: My hair update in a long while](messages/327963.html) - **Hairball** *17:56:45 8/11/21** [Incredibly good looking Taliban...](messages/327961.html) - **Yadgar** *12:22:22 8/07/21*
> + [Re: Incredibly good looking Taliban...](messages/327970.html) - **Longhair Hippy** *15:43:33 8/17/21** [Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress] [PIC]](messages/327954.html) - **Sigurd** *09:34:30 7/24/21*
> + [Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress]](messages/327956.html) - **Hairball** *05:26:41 7/25/21*+ [Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress]](messages/327955.html) - **Sigurd** *09:36:08 7/24/21*
> - [Re: Hello there, from way back! [38 months progress]](messages/327957.html) - **Hairball** *05:29:06 7/25/21** [Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)](messages/327952.html) - **Jesus Forain** *07:40:02 7/13/21*
> + [Re: Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)](messages/327979.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *16:40:47 9/06/21*+ [Re: Long Haired Businessmen (TV series)](messages/327953.html) - **lifobryan** *16:42:36 7/15/21** [Still here............ [PIC]](messages/327951.html) - **James** *09:14:35 7/09/21*
> + [Re: Still here............](messages/327959.html) - **Hairball** *05:38:21 7/25/21** [Into summer... [PIC]](messages/327949.html) - **yoshiki** *02:37:28 7/07/21*
> + [Re: Into summer...](messages/327958.html) - **Hairball** *05:33:34 7/25/21** [Thinner hair since covid](messages/327945.html) - **Darrin** *18:49:36 6/30/21*
> + [Re: Thinner hair since covid](messages/328066.html) - **CTB** *15:11:44 3/01/22*+ [Re: Thinner hair since covid](messages/327946.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *12:27:52 7/01/21** [Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name.](messages/327942.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *13:52:11 6/22/21*
> + [Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name.](messages/327944.html) - **lifobryan** *04:08:00 6/26/21*
> - [Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name.](messages/327948.html) - **Yadgar** *07:06:02 7/03/21*
> * [Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd inspiration for their name.](messages/327950.html) - **lifobryan** *02:51:21 7/09/21** [Small update... it's still growing =) (3 [PIC]](messages/327936.html) - **Joao Antnes** *15:45:40 6/17/21*
> + [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327960.html) - **A.D.** *12:22:14 8/04/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327947.html) - **NedOz** *02:31:09 7/02/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327943.html) - **Jesus Forain** *06:01:47 6/23/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327941.html) - **Anthony** *11:00:00 6/20/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327940.html) - **lifobryan** *16:01:08 6/18/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327939.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *13:45:58 6/18/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327938.html) - **MG** *02:44:08 6/18/21*+ [Re: Small update... it's still growing =) (3](messages/327937.html) - **Hairball** *17:23:58 6/17/21** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/327929.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:27:22 6/11/21*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/327931.html) - **lifobryan** *17:12:39 6/14/21*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/327930.html) - **Hairball** *19:15:44 6/11/21*
> - [Re: Hair update [PIC]](messages/327933.html) - **Jesus Forain** *10:12:14 6/16/21*- [Re: Hair update](messages/327932.html) - **Georges Huard** *10:12:08 6/16/21*
> * [Re: Hair update](messages/327935.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:04:50 6/16/21** [Hair Growth Update Pic + Video Link [PIC]](messages/327927.html) - **Erik** *17:54:40 6/06/21** [Long Haired Men Mistaken for women](messages/327926.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *08:11:34 6/06/21*
> + [Re: Long Haired Men Mistaken for women](messages/327934.html) - **Jesus Forain** *10:12:19 6/16/21** [9 year and 4 monts mark [PIC]](messages/327922.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:46:40 5/26/21*
> + [Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark](messages/327924.html) - **Jesus Forain** *04:09:59 5/29/21*
> - [Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark](messages/328099.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:05:18 5/28/22*+ [Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark](messages/327923.html) - **Hairball** *02:42:09 5/27/21*
> - [Re: 9 year and 4 monts mark](messages/327925.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:24:40 6/02/21** [Getting a bit longer, trying to be patient [PIC]](messages/327918.html) - **Cary** *02:48:17 4/29/21*
> + [Re: Getting a bit longer, trying to be patient](messages/327919.html) - **jlz** *03:26:27 5/21/21** [Long hair men emoji now exists](messages/327914.html) - **Jesus Forain** *16:25:18 4/23/21** [Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google](messages/327912.html) - **Jesus Forain** *01:20:35 4/17/21*
> + [Re: Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google](messages/327913.html) - **Anthony** *11:43:58 4/17/21*
> - [Re: Long hair seem more and more popular acording Google](messages/327915.html) - **Yadgar** *13:41:23 4/24/21** [Lockdown Revolution](messages/327906.html) - **Damon UK** *15:47:37 4/14/21*
> + [Re: Lockdown Revolution](messages/327910.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *16:08:45 4/16/21*
> - [Re: Lockdown Revolution](messages/327916.html) - **Damon UK** *08:02:48 4/25/21*- [Re: Lockdown Revolution](messages/327911.html) - **native carolinian** *20:05:02 4/16/21*+ [Re: Lockdown Revolution](messages/327907.html) - **Hairball** *16:23:03 4/14/21*
> - [Re: Lockdown Revolution](messages/327909.html) - **Damon UK** *04:27:48 4/15/21** [Early spring update... [PIC]](messages/327902.html) - **yoshiki** *16:35:24 4/04/21*
> + [Re: Early spring update...](messages/327908.html) - **Hairball** *16:28:16 4/14/21** [COVID locks update [PIC]](messages/327896.html) - **Andrew** *02:34:11 3/30/21*
> + [Re: COVID locks update [PIC]](messages/327903.html) - **Cary Brock** *02:40:20 4/06/21*+ [Pony from above [PIC]](messages/327899.html) - **Andrew** *02:35:04 4/01/21*+ [High pony [PIC]](messages/327898.html) - **Andrew** *02:34:58 4/01/21*
> - [Re: High pony](messages/327900.html) - **native carolinian** *17:54:19 4/01/21*+ [Re: COVID locks update](messages/327897.html) - **native carolinian** *18:08:55 3/30/21** [When I became a longhair](messages/327895.html) - **Jesus Forain** *09:35:53 3/29/21** [Interview with Ken in SF](messages/327893.html) - **Erik** *10:29:12 3/25/21*
> + [Re: Interview with Ken in SF](messages/327894.html) - **Darrin** *11:34:57 3/27/21** [GABLOTI?](messages/327882.html) - **Yadgar** *20:32:13 3/14/21*
> + [Re: GABLOTI?](messages/327889.html) - **Jesus Forain** *04:58:49 3/17/21*
> - [Re: GABLOTI?](messages/327891.html) - **Yadgar** *01:28:12 3/18/21** [Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327875.html) - **Jesus Forain** *10:12:42 3/10/21*
> + [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/328277.html) - **Bob (I forgot my original post)** *02:52:31 5/03/23*+ [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327901.html) - **Gene W** *18:52:53 4/02/21*+ [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327877.html) - **Hairball** *18:49:32 3/10/21*
> - [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327878.html) - **Jesus Forain** *09:14:38 3/11/21*
> * [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327880.html) - **Hairball** *14:10:32 3/11/21*
> + [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327888.html) - **DavidN** *03:14:18 3/17/21*
> - [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327890.html) - **Hairball** *05:16:46 3/17/21*
> * [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327892.html) - **DavidN** *10:50:42 3/18/21*+ [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327881.html) - **Darrin** *11:27:44 3/12/21*
> - [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327883.html) - **Jesus Forain** *10:38:30 3/15/21** [Re: Podcast about MLHH (mockery inside)](messages/327879.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *13:34:38 3/11/21*
> + [Bravo !](messages/327884.html) - **Glika** *18:02:07 3/15/21** [Dale Manzano](messages/327873.html) - **Marco** *17:25:44 3/02/21*
> + [Re: Dale Manzano](messages/327876.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:57:29 3/10/21** [Your longhair nickname](messages/327865.html) - **Jesus Forain** *08:51:17 2/16/21*
> + [Re: Your longhair nickname](messages/327872.html) - **Anthony** *07:49:05 3/02/21*+ [Re: Your longhair nickname](messages/327871.html) - **lifobryan** *04:42:07 2/27/21*+ [Re: Your longhair nickname](messages/327866.html) - **Darrin** *17:16:12 2/17/21** [Growing it out after 20 years of short hair [PIC]](messages/327853.html) - **Cary Brock** *02:47:54 2/03/21*
> + [Re: Great start !](messages/327885.html) - **Glika** *18:07:47 3/15/21*
> - [Re: Great start !](messages/327917.html) - **Cary** *02:48:11 4/29/21*+ [Re: Growing it out after 20 years of short hair](messages/327863.html) - **Gene W** *08:01:36 2/11/21*+ [Re: Growing it out after 20 years of short hair](messages/327859.html) - **Cary Brock** *17:11:08 2/03/21** [Brothers...it's been a long time! [PIC]](messages/327847.html) - **gman** *09:50:05 2/02/21*
> + [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327904.html) - **nuttidave** *16:23:23 4/09/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327886.html) - **Glinka** *18:22:38 3/15/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327869.html) - **Oren** *12:35:21 2/26/21*
> - [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327874.html) - **gman** *05:16:34 3/06/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327860.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:31:54 2/03/21*
> - [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327864.html) - **gman** *04:22:28 2/13/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327855.html) - **DavidN** *13:00:45 2/03/21*
> - [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327858.html) - **gman** *17:11:03 2/03/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327854.html) - **Jason** *09:55:16 2/03/21*
> - [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327857.html) - **gman** *17:10:57 2/03/21*+ [August 2020 [PIC]](messages/327850.html) - **gman** *12:57:11 2/02/21*
> - [Re: August 2020](messages/327856.html) - **gman** *17:10:52 2/03/21*- [Re: August 2020](messages/327852.html) - **Hairball** *15:42:46 2/02/21*+ [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327848.html) - **Hairball** *10:02:12 2/02/21*
> - [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327849.html) - **gman** *12:57:05 2/02/21*
> * [Re: Brothers...it's been a long time!](messages/327851.html) - **Hairball** *15:30:55 2/02/21** [9 years and 3 months (video) [PIC]](messages/327833.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:43:42 1/24/21*
> + [Re: welcome back](messages/327887.html) - **Glinka** *18:38:39 3/15/21*+ [Re: 9 years and 3 months (video)](messages/327839.html) - **MattT** *20:56:22 1/24/21*
> - [Re: 9 years and 3 months (video)](messages/327861.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:39:10 2/03/21** [Hair Growth Update [PIC]](messages/327831.html) - **Erik** *12:27:31 1/23/21*
> + [Re: Hair Growth Update](messages/327867.html) - **Darrin** *12:36:52 2/23/21*+ [Re: Hair Growth Update](messages/327862.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:54:02 2/03/21*+ [Re: Hair Growth Update](messages/327842.html) - **Jesus Forain** *06:17:57 1/27/21*
> - [Blog Post Link](messages/327845.html) - **Erik** *10:10:20 1/29/21*- [Blog Post Link](messages/327844.html) - **Erik** *10:10:10 1/29/21*
> * [Re: Blog Post Link](messages/327846.html) - **Jesus Forain** *07:14:59 1/30/21*+ [Re: Hair Growth Update](messages/327836.html) - **Mogh** *14:17:46 1/24/21*
> - [Re: Hair Growth Update](messages/327837.html) - **Erik** *15:26:27 1/24/21** [Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327822.html) - **João David** *11:45:58 1/17/21*
> + [Re: Going beyond classic lenght [PIC]](messages/327838.html) - **A.D.** *17:35:33 1/24/21*
> - [Re: Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327843.html) - **RossRS** *17:05:46 1/28/21*+ [Re: Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327825.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:05:53 1/17/21*
> - [Re: Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327828.html) - **Mogh** *11:49:55 1/20/21*+ [Re: Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327824.html) - **Pete\_J** *18:01:06 1/17/21*+ [Re: Going beyond classic lenght](messages/327823.html) - **Hairball** *16:59:19 1/17/21** [Ponytail holder](messages/327820.html) - **Jesus Forain** *08:05:47 1/15/21*
> + [Re: Ponytail holder](messages/327830.html) - **Gene W** *06:06:39 1/23/21*
> - [Re: Ponytail holder](messages/327832.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:34:52 1/24/21** [Growing Out One's Beard [PIC]](messages/327817.html) - **Jason** *08:44:42 1/14/21*
> + [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327905.html) - **nuttidave** *16:23:28 4/09/21*+ [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327868.html) - **Oren** *12:34:03 2/26/21*+ [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327821.html) - **Ken in SF** *00:08:07 1/17/21*
> - [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327826.html) - **Jason** *06:49:40 1/18/21*
> * [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327827.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:23:41 1/18/21*+ [Re: Growing Out One's Beard](messages/327819.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:47:03 1/15/21*+ [and the hair [PIC]](messages/327818.html) - **Jason** *12:22:43 1/14/21** [Does hair ever just randomly stop growing for a while?](messages/327802.html) - **Avi** *13:41:27 1/08/21*
> + [Re: Does hair ever just randomly stop growing for a while?](messages/327807.html) - **Jesus Forain** *04:48:16 1/09/21** [Hair Jan 21 [PIC]](messages/327801.html) - **MattT** *02:38:41 1/08/21*
> + [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327870.html) - **Oren** *12:37:25 2/26/21*+ [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327835.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:55:45 1/24/21*
> - [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327840.html) - **MattT** *20:58:21 1/24/21*+ [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327811.html) - **Bob J** *12:11:33 1/12/21*
> - [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327841.html) - **MattT** *20:59:09 1/24/21*+ [Re: Hair Jan 21 [PIC]](messages/327805.html) - **MattT** *15:50:55 1/08/21*+ [Re: Hair Jan 21 [PIC]](messages/327804.html) - **MattT** *15:50:50 1/08/21*
> - [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327809.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:42:12 1/11/21*
> * [Re: Hair Jan 21](messages/327813.html) - **MattT** *03:17:47 1/14/21*+ [Beautiful](messages/327803.html) - **Yomaku** *15:50:45 1/08/21*
> - [Re: Beautiful](messages/327806.html) - **MattT** *04:36:15 1/09/21** [Starting my long hair journey [PIC]](messages/327794.html) - **Andrew** *02:51:06 1/05/21*
> + [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327810.html) - **Ken in SF** *02:44:45 1/12/21*
> - [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327815.html) - **Andrew** *08:41:03 1/14/21*+ [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327808.html) - **Tony** *08:55:58 1/11/21*
> - [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327814.html) - **Andrew** *08:40:57 1/14/21*+ [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327800.html) - **Jesus Forain** *06:15:40 1/07/21*
> - [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327816.html) - **Andrew** *08:41:08 1/14/21*+ [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327796.html) - **MG** *02:41:37 1/06/21*+ [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327795.html) - **Hairball** *15:57:55 1/05/21*
> - [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327797.html) - **Andrew** *02:41:42 1/06/21*
> * [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327799.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *07:16:56 1/06/21** [Re: Starting my long hair journey](messages/327798.html) - **Hairball** *02:48:09 1/06/21** [Long hair although its very thick?](messages/327786.html) - **degenvanlicht** *19:42:08 12/19/20*
> + [Re: Long hair although its very thick?](messages/327792.html) - **Gene W** *09:21:26 12/23/20*+ [Re: Long hair although its very thick?](messages/327789.html) - **doninisrael** *01:53:25 12/20/20** [Smooth McGroove](messages/327781.html) - **Yadgar** *05:04:59 12/16/20** [Two year growth update ! [PIC]](messages/327778.html) - **Patrick Brands** *14:03:21 12/10/20*
> + [Re: Two year growth update !](messages/327790.html) - **Bob J** *12:02:02 12/21/20*+ [Re: Two year growth update !](messages/327787.html) - **Mark Kingsfield** *19:42:13 12/19/20*+ [Re: Two year growth update !](messages/327785.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:16:59 12/19/20*
> - [Re: Two year growth update ! [PIC]](messages/327793.html) - **Patrick Brands** *16:13:51 12/28/20** [Update [PIC]](messages/327776.html) - **Bob J** *19:51:32 12/09/20*
> + [Re: Update](messages/327782.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:31:00 12/17/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327791.html) - **Bob J** *12:05:23 12/21/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327780.html) - **doninisrael** *21:54:51 12/10/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327779.html) - **doninisrael** *21:53:47 12/10/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327777.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *09:45:54 12/10/20** [Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)... [PIC]](messages/327772.html) - **yoshiki** *04:57:29 12/06/20*
> + [Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)...](messages/327788.html) - **Mark Kingsfield** *19:42:18 12/19/20*+ [Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)...](messages/327783.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:48:06 12/17/20*+ [Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)...](messages/327773.html) - **Hairball** *05:10:50 12/06/20*
> - [Re: Winter 2020 update (come on 2021!)...](messages/327784.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:06:16 12/19/20** [Update [PIC]](messages/327762.html) - **doninisrael** *23:27:15 12/02/20*
> + [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/327763.html) - **doninisrael** *23:28:48 12/02/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327774.html) - **Hairball** *05:19:09 12/06/20*- [Re: Update](messages/327770.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:42:26 12/04/20*
> * [Re: Update](messages/327771.html) - **doninisrael** *01:38:45 12/05/20*- [Re: Update](messages/327768.html) - **Glinka** *17:07:30 12/03/20*
> * [Re: Update](messages/327769.html) - **doninisrael** *21:27:31 12/03/20** [2 year 9 month Update [PIC]](messages/327755.html) - **Glinka** *19:38:05 11/30/20*
> + [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327775.html) - **Hairball** *05:24:46 12/06/20*+ [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327764.html) - **Tes** *02:48:23 12/03/20*
> - [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327765.html) - **Glinka** *16:44:53 12/03/20*+ [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327761.html) - **doninisrael** *23:13:45 12/02/20*+ [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327760.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:02:09 12/02/20*
> - [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327766.html) - **Glinka** *16:52:46 12/03/20*+ [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327757.html) - **Jesus Forain** *04:29:02 12/01/20*
> - [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327767.html) - **Glinka** *16:56:25 12/03/20*- [Re: 2 year 9 month Update](messages/327759.html) - **Glinka** *17:17:20 12/01/20** [Born Longhairs](messages/327747.html) - **Erik** *09:32:43 11/20/20*
> + [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327812.html) - **Jesus Forain** *02:32:22 1/14/21*+ [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327754.html) - **Glinka** *17:35:12 11/30/20*+ [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327752.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *09:51:49 11/26/20*+ [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327751.html) - **Jesus Forain** *01:33:02 11/23/20*+ [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327750.html) - **Avi** *19:23:16 11/21/20*+ [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327748.html) - **Ken in SF** *13:37:55 11/21/20*
> - [Re: Born Longhairs](messages/327749.html) - **Erik** *16:54:26 11/21/20** [Long-haired Geezer's Garden... [PIC]](messages/327743.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:06:05 11/18/20*
> + [Re: Long-haired Geezer's Garden... [PIC]](messages/328036.html) - **Georges Huard** *11:01:20 1/17/22*+ [Re: Long-haired Geezer's Garden...](messages/327746.html) - **Erik** *09:24:52 11/20/20*+ [Another longhaired garden... [PIC]](messages/327744.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:28:01 11/18/20*
> - [3rd longhaired garden... [PIC]](messages/327745.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:46:42 11/18/20** [Fall Colors [PIC]](messages/327737.html) - **don** *06:28:00 11/13/20*
> + [Re: Fall Colors](messages/327742.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:33:44 11/18/20** [Avi...](messages/327736.html) - **yoshiki** *02:51:43 11/11/20*
> + [Re: Avi...](messages/327738.html) - **Avi** *15:32:29 11/15/20*
> - [Re: Avi...](messages/327739.html) - **yoshiki** *02:52:59 11/16/20*
> * [Re: Avi...](messages/327741.html) - **Avi** *18:04:45 11/16/20** [Re: Avi...](messages/327740.html) - **Avi** *18:04:40 11/16/20** [8 years 10 months video [PIC]](messages/327719.html) - **PhilipZ** *00:40:10 10/31/20*
> + [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327756.html) - **Glinka** *02:53:46 12/01/20*+ [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327735.html) - **Ken in SF** *00:00:50 11/06/20*+ [W O W !](messages/327727.html) - **Vino** *05:50:24 11/02/20*
> - [Re: W O W !](messages/327731.html) - **PhilipZ** *00:34:03 11/03/20*
> * [PhilipZ . . .](messages/327732.html) - **Vino** *06:08:18 11/03/20*+ [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327726.html) - **Marco** *18:04:03 10/31/20*
> - [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327730.html) - **PhilipZ** *00:29:38 11/03/20*+ [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327724.html) - **Jesus Forain** *16:02:34 10/31/20*
> - [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327729.html) - **PhilipZ** *00:28:25 11/03/20*
> * [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327733.html) - **Jesus Forain** *13:16:49 11/04/20*
> + [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327834.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:49:46 1/24/21*+ [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327734.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *13:45:31 11/04/20*+ [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327721.html) - **Hairball** *05:24:43 10/31/20*
> - [Re: 8 years 10 months video](messages/327728.html) - **PhilipZ** *00:12:04 11/03/20** [Long Hair Growth Update + Video [PIC]](messages/327712.html) - **Erik** *08:19:34 10/29/20*
> + [Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video](messages/327722.html) - **Hairball** *05:31:38 10/31/20*+ [Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video](messages/327716.html) - **Yadgar** *07:36:14 10/30/20*+ [Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video](messages/327714.html) - **Ken in SF** *11:01:56 10/29/20*
> - [Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video](messages/327715.html) - **Erik** *11:21:39 10/29/20*+ [Whoops!](messages/327713.html) - **Erik** *08:20:53 10/29/20** [Long Hair Growth Update + Video [PIC]](messages/327711.html) - **Erik** *08:19:00 10/29/20*
> + [Re: Long Hair Growth Update + Video](messages/327720.html) - **PhilipZ** *01:08:49 10/31/20** [Hair Update (3+ years) [PIC]](messages/327707.html) - **Yomaku** *06:12:06 10/27/20*
> + [Re: Hair Update (3+ years)](messages/327723.html) - **Hairball** *05:36:32 10/31/20*+ [Re: Hair Update (3+ years)](messages/327718.html) - **Matt T** *22:24:32 10/30/20*+ [Re: Hair Update (3+ years)](messages/327710.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:35:13 10/27/20** [My hairstyles](messages/327701.html) - **Jesus Forain** *06:46:37 10/22/20*
> + [Re: My hairstyles](messages/327708.html) - **Jesus Forain** *12:48:30 10/27/20*
> - [Re: My hairstyles](messages/327717.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:04:01 10/30/20*- [Bill Choisser's, ''ON BEING A LONGHAIR''](messages/327709.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:03:56 10/27/20*+ [Re: My hairstyles](messages/327706.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:28:43 10/26/20*+ [Re: My hairstyles](messages/327704.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:33:10 10/26/20** [Old member stopping by [PIC]](messages/327694.html) - **MarkS** *21:42:13 10/19/20*
> + [Re: Old member stopping by](messages/327703.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:16:55 10/26/20*+ [Re: Old member stopping by](messages/327699.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:24:59 10/20/20*+ [Re: Old member stopping by](messages/327698.html) - **Hairball** *16:18:55 10/20/20*+ [Back view [PIC]](messages/327695.html) - **MarkS** *21:44:03 10/19/20** [7-year update [PIC]](messages/327692.html) - **Anthony** *05:56:01 10/17/20*
> + [Re: 7-year update](messages/327705.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:44:59 10/26/20*+ [Re: 7-year update](messages/327697.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:16:02 10/20/20*
> - [Re: 7-year update](messages/327700.html) - **Anthony** *01:52:08 10/21/20*+ [Re: 7-year update](messages/327696.html) - **MarkS** *22:05:37 10/19/20*+ [Re: 7-year update [PIC]](messages/327693.html) - **James** *11:27:16 10/18/20** [Text for people that tells you should cut your hair](messages/327688.html) - **Jesus Forain** *07:04:46 10/16/20*
> + [Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair](messages/327753.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:01:28 11/26/20*
> - [Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair](messages/327758.html) - **Jesus Forain** *12:08:12 12/01/20*+ [Re: Text for people that tells you should cut your hair](messages/327725.html) - **Georges** *18:03:58 10/31/20*+ [A long-haired Geezer's advise...](messages/327690.html) - **Ken in SF** *10:25:49 10/16/20*
> - [Re: A long-haired Geezer's advise...](messages/327691.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:58:39 10/17/20** [Re-introducing myself.... [PIC]](messages/327668.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:26:11 10/14/20*
> + [Ken!](messages/327687.html) - **Yomaku** *23:49:22 10/15/20*
> - [Re: Ken!](messages/327689.html) - **Ken in SF** *09:24:33 10/16/20*+ [Re: Re-introducing myself.... [PIC]](messages/327679.html) - **Jason** *11:32:02 10/15/20*
> - [Awesome pic, terrific hair, and gr8 abs!!...](messages/327682.html) - **Ken in SF** *17:18:10 10/15/20*+ [Re: Re-introducing myself....](messages/327673.html) - **MG** *03:10:22 10/15/20*
> - [Geezers](messages/327681.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:53:37 10/15/20*+ [Re: Re-introducing myself....](messages/327672.html) - **Darrin** *03:10:16 10/15/20*
> - [Re: Re-introducing myself....](messages/327680.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:43:50 10/15/20*+ [Another outdoor hair shot... [PIC]](messages/327671.html) - **Ken in SF** *20:27:47 10/14/20*
> - [Re: Another outdoor hair shot...](messages/327676.html) - **Darrin** *08:37:26 10/15/20*
> * [Re: Another outdoor hair shot...](messages/327684.html) - **Hairball** *17:58:03 10/15/20*
> + [Re: Another outdoor hair shot... [PIC]](messages/327685.html) - **Hairball** *18:12:28 10/15/20*
> - [Sutro Baths pic....](messages/327686.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:46:35 10/15/20*
> * [Re: Sutro Baths pic....](messages/327702.html) - **Yadgar** *20:17:15 10/24/20** [Re: Another outdoor hair shot...](messages/327683.html) - **Ken in SF** *17:27:45 10/15/20** [Re: Another outdoor hair shot...](messages/327677.html) - **Darrin . . .** *11:16:05 10/15/20** [1 Year Update At The Apple Tree [PIC]](messages/327652.html) - **Don** *05:08:27 10/08/20*
> + [Re: 1 Year Update At The Apple Tree](messages/327661.html) - **Ken in SF** *01:46:11 10/13/20*+ [Re: 1 Year Update At The Apple Tree](messages/327654.html) - **Darrin** *05:49:01 10/08/20** [Hair growth progress---3rd time :) [PIC]](messages/327645.html) - **Patrick Brands** *12:11:33 10/06/20*
> + [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327651.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:08:22 10/08/20*
> - [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327657.html) - **Darrin** *06:56:20 10/11/20*
> * [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327659.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:11:24 10/11/20*
> + [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327660.html) - **nativecarolinian** *05:04:46 10/12/20*- [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327656.html) - **nativecarolinian** *05:50:18 10/09/20*+ [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327648.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:57:04 10/07/20*+ [Re: Hair growth progress---3rd time :)](messages/327647.html) - **Darrin** *04:56:59 10/07/20** [Be hanging by hair?](messages/327643.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:13:22 10/06/20*
> + [Re: Be hanging by hair?](messages/327650.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:08:17 10/08/20*+ [Re: Be hanging by hair?](messages/327649.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:14:06 10/07/20*+ [Re: Be hanging by hair?](messages/327646.html) - **Pete\_J** *16:48:41 10/06/20** [Viking and Trolleypup](messages/327641.html) - **Darrin** *08:57:48 10/05/20*
> + [Re: Viking and Trolleypup](messages/327665.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:00:08 10/13/20*
> - [Re: Viking and Trolleypup](messages/327669.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *08:55:54 10/14/20*
> * [Re: Viking and Trolleypup](messages/327675.html) - **Darrin** *08:35:57 10/15/20** [3 Year Hair Growth Update [PIC]](messages/327638.html) - **Erik** *16:14:03 10/04/20*
> + [Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update](messages/327667.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:24:33 10/13/20*+ [Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update](messages/327644.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:13:27 10/06/20*+ [Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update](messages/327640.html) - **Tony** *04:56:08 10/05/20*+ [Re: 3 Year Hair Growth Update](messages/327639.html) - **Darrin** *17:29:43 10/04/20** [Alicia Siverstone's son](messages/327636.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:54:17 10/01/20** [Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men](messages/327629.html) - **Vino** *05:49:08 9/30/20*
> + [Re: Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men [PIC]](messages/327653.html) - **yoshiki** *05:08:33 10/08/20*
> - [Thanks Yoshiki !](messages/327655.html) - **Vino** *05:50:26 10/08/20*+ [Re: Long Haired Athletes ~ Mane Men](messages/327630.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *15:24:00 9/30/20** [Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327610.html) - **Darrin** *16:51:37 9/24/20*
> + [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327627.html) - **Darrin** *17:12:57 9/29/20*+ [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327626.html) - **Darrin** *17:03:33 9/29/20*+ [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327623.html) - **Todd** *04:53:16 9/27/20*
> - [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327637.html) - **Tim** *05:11:51 10/03/20*- [Todd . . .](messages/327635.html) - **Vino** *08:52:13 10/01/20*- [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327628.html) - **Jerry** *17:18:58 9/29/20*
> * [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327632.html) - **Darrin** *17:19:11 9/30/20*
> + [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327633.html) - **Jerry** *03:26:05 10/01/20*+ [Re: Considering shorter long hair length](messages/327614.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:32 9/26/20** [Conditioning between two shampoo?](messages/327601.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:41:08 9/16/20*
> + [Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?](messages/327603.html) - **Darrin** *16:58:12 9/21/20*
> - [Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?](messages/327604.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:19:01 9/22/20*
> * [Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?](messages/327605.html) - **Darrin** *04:33:14 9/23/20*
> + [I agree with Darrin (no text)](messages/327612.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:21 9/26/20*+ [Re: Conditioning between two shampoo?](messages/327609.html) - **Jesus Forain** *02:46:09 9/24/20** [My hairstyles video](messages/327594.html) - **Gabriel** *03:30:06 9/03/20*
> + [Re: My hairstyles video](messages/327595.html) - **longhair511** *16:51:38 9/03/20** [New member [PIC]](messages/327588.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:21:28 8/25/20*
> + [Welcome!](messages/327613.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:27 9/26/20*
> - [Re: Welcome!](messages/327624.html) - **Jesus Forain** *03:20:39 9/29/20*+ [Re: New member](messages/327593.html) - **Anthony** *12:50:22 8/31/20*
> - [Re: New member](messages/327596.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:48:10 9/05/20*
> * [Re: New member](messages/327597.html) - **Anthony** *08:22:53 9/08/20*+ [Re: New member](messages/327591.html) - **Vincent** *12:37:06 8/27/20*
> - [Re: New member](messages/327592.html) - **Jesus Forain** *05:27:10 8/29/20*+ [Re: New member](messages/327589.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *11:07:24 8/25/20*
> - [Re: New member](messages/327590.html) - **Jesus Forain** *17:42:06 8/26/20** [Long time no update](messages/327574.html) - **Matt T** *04:41:06 8/16/20*
> + [Re: Long time no update](messages/327615.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:37 9/26/20*
> - [Re: Long time no update](messages/327663.html) - **Matt T** *19:09:19 10/13/20*+ [Re: Long time no update](messages/327578.html) - **Gene W** *07:27:59 8/17/20*
> - [Re: Long time no update](messages/327581.html) - **Matt T** *03:25:11 8/18/20*+ [Re: Long time no update [PIC]](messages/327576.html) - **Matt T** *17:37:58 8/16/20*
> - [Re: Long time no update](messages/328246.html) - **Ryan** *17:10:38 12/20/22*- [Re: Long time no update](messages/327598.html) - **Darrin** *16:58:46 9/14/20*
> * [Re: Long time no update](messages/327664.html) - **Matt T** *19:11:44 10/13/20*- [Re: Long time no update](messages/327586.html) - **Yadgar** *03:05:18 8/20/20*
> * [Re: Long time no update](messages/327587.html) - **MattT** *23:47:47 8/20/20*- [Re: Long time no update](messages/327580.html) - **Mogh** *13:12:56 8/17/20*
> * [Re: Long time no update](messages/327582.html) - **MattT** *03:25:18 8/18/20*- [Re: Long time no update](messages/327579.html) - **Anthony** *09:37:51 8/17/20*
> * [Re: Long time no update](messages/327583.html) - **MattT** *03:25:24 8/18/20*- [Re: Long time no update](messages/327577.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *07:17:58 8/17/20*
> * [Re: Long time no update](messages/327584.html) - **MattT** *03:25:30 8/18/20** [Went bald.](messages/327573.html) - **Old member from 2007** *16:24:39 8/15/20*
> + [Re: Went bald.](messages/327616.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:42 9/26/20*
> - [Re: Went bald.](messages/327662.html) - **CTB** *16:44:47 10/13/20*
> * [Rogaine](messages/327666.html) - **Ken in SF** *23:16:11 10/13/20*
> + [Re: Rogaine](messages/327670.html) - **CTB** *16:32:49 10/14/20*+ [Re: Went bald.](messages/327607.html) - **Tes** *02:45:58 9/24/20*+ [Re: Went bald.](messages/327599.html) - **Darrin** *16:58:51 9/14/20** [Long hair and jobs](messages/327571.html) - **RJM** *18:04:37 8/13/20*
> + [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327617.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:48 9/26/20*+ [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327608.html) - **Tes** *02:46:04 9/24/20*+ [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327600.html) - **Darrin** *16:56:27 9/15/20*+ [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327585.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:14:28 8/19/20*
> - [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327634.html) - **Darrin** *04:36:20 10/01/20*+ [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327575.html) - **Todd** *09:43:07 8/16/20*+ [Re: Long hair and jobs](messages/327572.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *20:53:00 8/14/20** [9 Month progress [PIC]](messages/327568.html) - **Gabriel** *16:16:07 8/10/20*
> + [Re: 9 Month progress](messages/327570.html) - **MG** *03:25:12 8/11/20** [2 year progress check [PIC]](messages/327566.html) - **Stephan** *03:25:08 8/10/20*
> + [Re: 2 year progress check](messages/327625.html) - **Darrin** *06:29:36 9/29/20*+ [Looks TERRIFIC!!! (no text)](messages/327618.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:53 9/26/20*+ [Re: 2 year progress check](messages/327569.html) - **James** *03:25:06 8/11/20*+ [VERY nice !](messages/327567.html) - **Vino** *05:51:02 8/10/20** [4 Years into my Journey](messages/327556.html) - **Steve** *03:09:03 7/31/20*
> + [Re: 4 Years into my Journey](messages/327674.html) - **Darrin** *04:39:42 10/15/20*+ [If a relationship is new....](messages/327619.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:47:58 9/26/20*+ [Re: 4 Years into my Journey](messages/327602.html) - **doninisrael** *04:09:29 9/20/20*+ [Re: 4 Years into my Journey](messages/327563.html) - **Anthony** *01:06:57 8/02/20*+ [Re: 4 Years into my Journey](messages/327558.html) - **Steve** *12:49:34 7/31/20*
> - [Re: 4 Years into my Journey](messages/327562.html) - **MG** *03:54:43 8/01/20** [Finally at my goal length [PIC]](messages/327554.html) - **BG** *17:17:19 7/30/20*
> + [Looks AWESOME!! (no text)](messages/327620.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:48:03 9/26/20*+ [Re: Finally at my goal length](messages/327564.html) - **J.M.M.** *18:16:35 8/04/20*+ [Hey Thair](messages/327557.html) - **Vino** *06:59:53 7/31/20*
> - [Re: Hey Thair](messages/327559.html) - **BG** *14:36:25 7/31/20*
> * [Dear BG . . . .](messages/327561.html) - **Vino** *16:50:44 7/31/20*+ [Re: Finally at my goal length](messages/327555.html) - **Hairball** *17:30:53 7/30/20*
> - [Re: Finally at my goal length](messages/327560.html) - **BG** *14:36:30 7/31/20** [Birthday Yeard and Mane [PIC]](messages/327547.html) - **Yadgar** *02:33:02 7/19/20*
> + [Re: Birthday Yeard and Mane](messages/327621.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:48:09 9/26/20*+ [Re: Birthday Yeard and Mane](messages/327549.html) - **Abaslom** *23:51:06 7/19/20** [Hair length update19 months from a buzz [PIC]](messages/327545.html) - **Patrick Brands** *04:56:54 7/18/20*
> + [Nice!!! (no text)](messages/327622.html) - **Ken in Sf** *04:48:14 9/26/20*+ [Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz](messages/327546.html) - **Hairball** *05:02:30 7/18/20*
> - [Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz](messages/327548.html) - **Patrick Brands** *03:21:00 7/19/20*
> * [Re: Hair length update19 months from a buzz](messages/327642.html) - **Darrin** *16:50:29 10/05/20** [Dual Survival](messages/327544.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:26:41 7/09/20** [Looking for a hair female hair partner. [PIC]](messages/327539.html) - **Kenneth** *03:15:08 6/29/20*
> + [Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner.](messages/327551.html) - **Gene W** *11:08:15 7/26/20*
> - [Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner.](messages/327552.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *08:21:14 7/27/20*
> * [Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner.](messages/327565.html) - **J.M.M.** *18:16:41 8/04/20*+ [Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner.](messages/327541.html) - **J.M.M.** *15:22:44 7/01/20*
> - [Re: Looking for a hair female hair partner.](messages/327542.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *16:28:35 7/01/20** [at the office [PIC]](messages/327528.html) - **A.D.** *13:11:29 6/26/20*
> + [Re: at the office](messages/327535.html) - **Darrin** *12:56:04 6/28/20*
> - [Darrin . . .](messages/327550.html) - **Vino** *06:43:19 7/23/20*- [Re: at the office](messages/327537.html) - **A.D.** *16:13:16 6/28/20*+ [Re: at the office](messages/327529.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *22:00:38 6/26/20*
> - [Re: at the office](messages/327538.html) - **A.D.** *16:15:28 6/28/20*
> * [Re: at the office](messages/327540.html) - **Lpng hair in Albany** *08:24:05 6/29/20** [Straight Long Hair Dating Sites](messages/327525.html) - **J.M.M.** *13:46:49 6/22/20*
> + [Re: Straight Long Hair Dating Sites](messages/327526.html) - **Jason** *13:50:37 6/22/20*
> - [Re: Straight Long Hair Dating Sites](messages/327534.html) - **Just Carol** *08:09:34 6/28/20** [Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update](messages/327515.html) - **Erik** *04:36:31 6/20/20*
> + [Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update](messages/327553.html) - **BG** *17:17:14 7/30/20*+ [Erik is WOW !](messages/327543.html) - **Vino** *08:56:06 7/08/20*+ [Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update](messages/327519.html) - **Todd** *09:35:30 6/21/20*
> - [Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update [PIC]](messages/327530.html) - **Bob J** *19:57:47 6/27/20*
> * [Re: Dating sites for gay longhaired men + quick length update](messages/327531.html) - **Bob J** *19:59:32 6/27/20*+ [Welcome](messages/327516.html) - **White Tail** *04:41:04 6/20/20*
> - [Re: Welcome [PIC]](messages/327517.html) - **Erik** *10:55:04 6/20/20*
> * [Re: Welcome](messages/327524.html) - **Yadgar** *00:46:14 6/22/20** [Re: Welcome](messages/327522.html) - **Just Carol** *14:23:41 6/21/20** [Re: Welcome](messages/327518.html) - **Hairball** *11:03:35 6/20/20*
> + [Re: Welcome](messages/327520.html) - **Erik** *12:42:13 6/21/20*
> - [Re: Welcome](messages/327521.html) - **Hairball** *12:55:17 6/21/20** [Absolom's post](messages/327513.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *09:54:23 6/09/20** [Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair](messages/327509.html) - **Abaslom** *22:46:42 6/07/20*
> + [Re: Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair](messages/327511.html) - **Jason** *10:11:37 6/08/20*
> - [Re: Frayed hair compounding damage to good hair](messages/327512.html) - **Abaslom** *15:43:52 6/08/20*+ [Scott !](messages/327510.html) - **White Tail** *04:30:45 6/08/20** [Trimming with blunt scissors](messages/327508.html) - **Avi** *10:57:30 6/04/20** [Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327502.html) - **Avi** *03:44:24 5/30/20*
> + [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327536.html) - **Darrin** *13:09:01 6/28/20*+ [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327523.html) - **Just Carol** *14:39:36 6/21/20*+ [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327507.html) - **Mxt** *13:42:33 6/01/20*+ [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327503.html) - **yoshiki** *08:28:24 5/31/20*
> - [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327504.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *10:49:52 5/31/20*
> * [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327506.html) - **Cameron** *19:10:23 5/31/20** [Re: Split ends- what do I do?](messages/327505.html) - **Todd** *17:16:32 5/31/20** [1st time poster 3 years 8 months, yes! [PIC]](messages/327500.html) - **DownTheShore** *07:12:47 5/26/20*
> + [Re: 1st time poster 3 years 8 months, yes!](messages/327533.html) - **Just Carol** *08:03:41 6/28/20** [Hair growth progress ! [PIC]](messages/327499.html) - **Patrick Brands** *03:28:05 5/26/20*
> + [Re: Hair growth progress !](messages/327532.html) - **Just Carol** *07:49:06 6/28/20** [Back after nearly 20 years](messages/327490.html) - **ExLongHair** *03:42:43 5/17/20*
> + [Re: Back after nearly 20 years](messages/327501.html) - **CTB** *08:26:59 5/29/20*+ [Re: Back after nearly 20 years](messages/327496.html) - **Jason** *09:55:06 5/18/20*+ [Re: Back after nearly 20 years](messages/327494.html) - **Yadgar** *00:00:12 5/18/20** [Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327476.html) - **Avi** *01:06:47 5/11/20*
> + [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327483.html) - **Gene W** *07:39:32 5/12/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327489.html) - **Avi** *21:59:26 5/16/20*
> * [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327658.html) - **Darrin** *06:59:28 10/11/20*+ [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327482.html) - **MG** *03:25:42 5/12/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327488.html) - **Avi** *21:58:43 5/16/20*+ [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327481.html) - **Hairball** *16:15:38 5/11/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327487.html) - **Avi** *21:58:14 5/16/20*
> * [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327491.html) - **Hairball** *05:57:54 5/17/20*
> + [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327492.html) - **Avi** *13:45:44 5/17/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327493.html) - **Hairball** *16:41:42 5/17/20*
> * [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327497.html) - **Avi** *15:35:29 5/18/20*+ [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327479.html) - **Erik** *07:36:31 5/11/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327606.html) - **Darrin** *17:23:46 9/23/20*- [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327486.html) - **Avi** *21:56:34 5/16/20*- [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327480.html) - **yoshiki** *13:30:48 5/11/20*+ [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327478.html) - **yoshiki** *07:18:15 5/11/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327485.html) - **Avi** *21:54:44 5/16/20*+ [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327477.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *05:08:36 5/11/20*
> - [Re: Starting to feel discouraged... considering a haircut :(](messages/327484.html) - **Avi** *21:53:41 5/16/20** [Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327470.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *15:11:07 5/04/20*
> + [Re: Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327475.html) - **Yadgar** *04:53:37 5/09/20*+ [Re: Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327471.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *15:15:41 5/04/20*
> - [Re: Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327472.html) - **Hairball** *16:27:29 5/04/20*
> * [Re: Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327473.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *21:35:27 5/04/20*
> + [Re: Haircuts and COVID 19](messages/327474.html) - **H** *03:39:36 5/05/20** [Garnier Fructis](messages/327468.html) - **Vino** *05:24:17 4/29/20** [Jerry Oliver - model](messages/327463.html) - **Marco** *16:48:41 4/25/20*
> + [Made in Chelsea](messages/327527.html) - **Tommmm** *12:21:20 6/23/20*+ [Re: Jerry Oliver - model](messages/327514.html) - **Darrin** *19:01:57 6/16/20*+ [Thanks for shairing !](messages/327465.html) - **Vino** *07:33:40 4/26/20*+ [Re: Jerry Oliver - model](messages/327464.html) - **Todd** *19:08:04 4/25/20*
> - [Todd . . . .](messages/327467.html) - **Vino** *09:15:54 4/27/20** [Luke Eisner](messages/327462.html) - **Vino** *18:27:24 4/23/20** [How To Get a 90's Metal Hairstyle With Robby Metal](messages/327461.html) - **Robrom** *04:16:30 4/20/20** [COVID 19](messages/327455.html) - **Lpng hair in Albany** *05:03:15 4/14/20*
> + [Re: COVID 19](messages/327457.html) - **Glinka** *03:38:59 4/15/20*+ [Re: COVID 19](messages/327456.html) - **Anthony** *09:58:24 4/14/20** [COVID 19](messages/327442.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:12:03 4/05/20*
> + [Re: Essential Worker](messages/327454.html) - **Glikna** *16:58:17 4/11/20*+ [Re: COVID 19](messages/327452.html) - **Runningball** *07:15:18 4/11/20*
> - [Re: COVID 19](messages/327453.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:52:44 4/11/20*+ [Re: COVID 19](messages/327450.html) - **Gene W** *16:40:16 4/08/20*+ [Re: COVID 19](messages/327448.html) - **Anthony** *15:12:10 4/07/20*
> - [Re: COVID 19](messages/327451.html) - **Yadgar** *19:05:45 4/09/20*+ [Re: COVID 19](messages/327446.html) - **J.M.M.** *03:20:03 4/07/20*+ [you betcha'](messages/327443.html) - **White Tail** *09:23:34 4/05/20** [Trevor Lawrence](messages/327437.html) - **Vino** *11:23:00 4/03/20*
> + [Re: Trevor Lawrence](messages/327439.html) - **Jacob U** *16:14:23 4/03/20*
> - [Re: Trevor Lawrence](messages/327440.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:34:36 4/04/20*
> * [Trevor](messages/327444.html) - **Vino** *10:25:16 4/05/20** [French braids? [PIC]](messages/327427.html) - **Avi** *00:56:06 4/01/20*
> + [Re: French braids?](messages/327431.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:38:45 4/02/20*
> - [Re: French braids?](messages/327433.html) - **Avi** *19:16:59 4/02/20*+ [Re: French braids? [PIC]](messages/327430.html) - **Jason** *11:55:36 4/02/20*
> - [Re: French braids?](messages/327434.html) - **Avi** *19:17:30 4/02/20*
> * [Re: French braids?](messages/327438.html) - **Jason** *11:24:02 4/03/20*+ [Re: French braids?](messages/327429.html) - **Todd** *19:42:40 4/01/20*
> - [Re: French braids?](messages/327435.html) - **Avi** *19:18:11 4/02/20*
> * [Re: French braids?](messages/327441.html) - **Todd** *18:40:26 4/04/20*
> + [Re: French braids?](messages/327466.html) - **Vino** *11:19:14 4/26/20*+ [Re: French braids?](messages/327428.html) - **Hairball** *03:17:44 4/01/20*
> - [Re: French braids?](messages/327436.html) - **Avi** *19:19:12 4/02/20** [1year update [PIC]](messages/327425.html) - **Glinka** *08:44:44 3/29/20*
> + [Re: 1year update](messages/327459.html) - **Tes** *05:08:42 4/18/20*
> - [Re: dyed hair](messages/327498.html) - **Glinka** *08:09:07 5/21/20** [Nape Hair](messages/327424.html) - **milkister** *08:44:39 3/29/20*
> + [Re: Nape Hair](messages/327426.html) - **Gene W** *10:02:21 3/31/20** [Still working at it... [PIC]](messages/327423.html) - **yoshiki** *03:02:03 3/29/20*
> + [Re: Still working at it...](messages/327458.html) - **Georges** *16:04:14 4/17/20** [When I was not folically challenged [PIC]](messages/327421.html) - **Runningball** *09:44:09 3/20/20*
> + [Re: When I was not folically challenged](messages/327447.html) - **J.M.M.** *03:20:09 4/07/20*
> - [Re: When I was not folically challenged](messages/327449.html) - **Runningball** *16:19:20 4/07/20*+ [Re: When I was not folically challenged [PIC]](messages/327432.html) - **Runningball** *19:09:33 4/02/20*
> - [May progress [PIC]](messages/327469.html) - **Runningball** *08:58:30 5/04/20** [Sideways Pics](messages/327420.html) - **Runningball** *09:41:40 3/20/20** [March [PIC]](messages/327419.html) - **Runningball** *09:13:14 3/19/20** [February [PIC]](messages/327418.html) - **Runningball** *09:13:09 3/19/20** [January [PIC]](messages/327417.html) - **Runningball** *09:13:04 3/19/20** [January [PIC]](messages/327416.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:59 3/19/20** [December [PIC]](messages/327415.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:54 3/19/20** [November [PIC]](messages/327414.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:49 3/19/20** [More progress [PIC]](messages/327413.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:44 3/19/20** [More progress [PIC]](messages/327412.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:39 3/19/20** [Follically challenged hair growth attempt. [PIC]](messages/327411.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:33 3/19/20** [Folically challenged hair growth attempt [PIC]](messages/327410.html) - **Runningball** *09:12:28 3/19/20** [Still here [PIC]](messages/327405.html) - **James** *11:20:28 3/13/20*
> + [Re: Still here](messages/327409.html) - **Anthony** *11:59:03 3/14/20*+ [Still there](messages/327408.html) - **White Tail** *07:29:25 3/14/20*+ [Re: Still here [PIC]](messages/327407.html) - **James** *04:44:49 3/14/20*+ [Re: Still here [PIC]](messages/327406.html) - **James** *20:52:40 3/13/20** [2 year update :)](messages/327390.html) - **Avi** *08:07:06 3/08/20*
> + [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327400.html) - **Hairball** *16:49:08 3/10/20*
> - [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327403.html) - **Avi** *21:31:22 3/10/20*+ [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327392.html) - **DavidN** *06:06:19 3/09/20*
> - [photos OK](messages/327397.html) - **White Tail** *09:18:39 3/10/20*
> * [Re: photos OK](messages/327399.html) - **DavidN** *11:27:49 3/10/20*- [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327395.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:36:33 3/09/20*- [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327393.html) - **Avi** *17:10:31 3/09/20*
> * [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327396.html) - **DavidN** *01:31:50 3/10/20*
> + [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327402.html) - **Avi** *21:29:09 3/10/20*+ [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327391.html) - **Yadgar** *16:09:22 3/08/20*
> - [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327394.html) - **Avi** *17:10:36 3/09/20*
> * [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327398.html) - **Yadgar** *09:49:40 3/10/20*
> + [Re: 2 year update :)](messages/327401.html) - **Avi** *21:28:28 3/10/20** [Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327379.html) - **Jacob U** *05:59:56 2/20/20*
> + [Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327611.html) - **Darrin** *16:51:43 9/24/20*+ [Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327383.html) - **Marco** *16:38:03 2/23/20*+ [Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327380.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:31:29 2/20/20*
> - [Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327384.html) - **J.M.M.** *16:38:08 2/23/20*
> * [Re: Boys never grow their hair to the floor, right?](messages/327386.html) - **LongHairedSfFan** *09:34:09 2/24/20** [Of course Ive heard of him.](messages/327385.html) - **Jacob U** *05:18:17 2/24/20*
> + [Speaking of...](messages/327422.html) - **Jacob U** *12:11:48 3/23/20*+ [Re: Of course Ive heard of him.](messages/327387.html) - **LongHairedSfFan** *09:36:04 2/24/20*
> - [My worries](messages/327388.html) - **Jacob U** *10:15:32 2/24/20*
> * [Re: My worries](messages/327389.html) - **LongHairedSfFan** *16:43:25 2/24/20** [Hair journey for 3rd time :) [PIC]](messages/327377.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:46:30 2/18/20*
> + [Re: Hair journey for 3rd time :)](messages/327382.html) - **Vincent** *11:29:53 2/23/20*+ [Re: Hair journey for 3rd time :)](messages/327381.html) - **Glinka** *09:24:08 2/23/20*+ [3rd time is a charm...](messages/327378.html) - **White Tail** *05:56:39 2/19/20** [INCREDIBLE HAIR](messages/327370.html) - **SAM** *09:16:21 2/02/20*
> + [Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR](messages/327374.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:27:17 2/07/20*+ [Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR](messages/327372.html) - **Marco** *07:56:35 2/03/20*+ [Re: INCREDIBLE HAIR](messages/327371.html) - **Jacob U** *22:41:27 2/02/20** [Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care?](messages/327369.html) - **J.M.M.** *05:32:56 2/01/20*
> + [Re: Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care?](messages/327373.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:22:42 2/07/20*
> - [Re: Products, foods, liquids, materials you use for hair care?](messages/327376.html) - **zenpaul** *03:34:15 2/12/20** [Petition to end hair discrimination](messages/327365.html) - **J.M.M.** *14:59:56 1/27/20*
> + [Re: Petition to end hair discrimination](messages/327375.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:51:12 2/08/20** [Please update my location in Member's directory](messages/327364.html) - **J.M.M.** *05:55:29 1/27/20** [Hair Freaky Long Hair - Facebook Page](messages/327362.html) - **UVALee** *22:51:34 1/25/20*
> + [Re: Hair Freaky Long Hair - Facebook Page](messages/327363.html) - **Jacob U** *01:12:25 1/26/20** [My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind. [PIC]](messages/327354.html) - **J.M.M.** *03:35:13 1/24/20*
> + [Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind.](messages/327358.html) - **Yadgar** *12:26:06 1/25/20*
> - [Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind.](messages/327359.html) - **J.M.M.** *17:02:44 1/25/20*
> * [Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind.](messages/327366.html) - **Yadgar** *02:33:04 1/31/20*
> + [Re: My hair photo update plus other stuff on my mind.](messages/327368.html) - **J.M.M.** *06:03:44 1/31/20*+ [Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!](messages/327356.html) - **doninisrael** *06:48:46 1/25/20*
> - [Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!](messages/327357.html) - **J.M.M.** *11:10:57 1/25/20*
> * [Re: Nice Hair and I Know Nea Makri!](messages/327361.html) - **doninisrael** *22:42:00 1/25/20** [Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327334.html) - **João David** *18:06:38 1/18/20*
> + [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327460.html) - **Weston** *15:13:42 4/19/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327355.html) - **Georges** *18:33:15 1/24/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327351.html) - **PhilipZ** *17:29:28 1/20/20*+ [Re: Little Bird Long Hair!](messages/327347.html) - **yoshiki** *14:04:00 1/20/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327346.html) - **Jason** *08:04:04 1/20/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327345.html) - **DavidN** *07:39:04 1/20/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P [PIC]](messages/327344.html) - **A.D.** *03:33:00 1/20/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327343.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:53:51 1/19/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327342.html) - **Ken in SF** *16:31:36 1/19/20*+ [Oh wow, indeed](messages/327341.html) - **White Tail** *09:37:51 1/19/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327339.html) - **Anthony** *06:56:55 1/19/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327338.html) - **J.M.M.** *06:36:21 1/19/20*+ [Re: Oh wow everyone is still here - 180 months of growth! =P](messages/327337.html) - **Hairball** *05:41:38 1/19/20** [100 Months - Video [PIC]](messages/327329.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:00:32 1/17/20*
> + [Re: 100 Months - Video](messages/327631.html) - **Paul** *17:19:06 9/30/20*+ [Re: 100 Months - Video](messages/327335.html) - **Abaslom** *22:10:19 1/18/20*+ [Re: 100 Months - Video](messages/327332.html) - **Yadgar** *14:15:07 1/18/20*+ [Re: 100 Months - Video](messages/327330.html) - **Hairball** *06:18:10 1/18/20** [Long Hair and Me [PIC]](messages/327321.html) - **Erik** *18:30:08 1/11/20*
> + [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327495.html) - **longhairedone** *03:19:36 5/18/20*+ [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327360.html) - **Tes** *18:21:10 1/25/20*+ [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327349.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:31:09 1/20/20*+ [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327336.html) - **Abaslom** *22:13:38 1/18/20*+ [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327331.html) - **Hairball** *06:23:28 1/18/20*
> - [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327340.html) - **Erik** *08:21:22 1/19/20*+ [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327322.html) - **Yadgar** *02:30:26 1/12/20*
> - [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327324.html) - **J.M.M.** *05:23:37 1/12/20*
> * [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327367.html) - **Yadgar** *03:32:50 1/31/20** [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327325.html) - **Erik** *12:03:44 1/12/20*- [Re: Long Hair and Me](messages/327323.html) - **Erik** *05:23:32 1/12/20** [Happy New Year [PIC]](messages/327318.html) - **Anthony** *12:35:38 1/11/20*
> + [Re: Happy New Year](messages/327404.html) - **James** *11:16:49 3/13/20*+ [Re: HNY :-) !](messages/327328.html) - **Glinka** *20:16:26 1/13/20** [2020! [PIC]](messages/327312.html) - **yoshiki** *05:39:45 1/11/20*
> + [Re: 2020!](messages/327348.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:20:56 1/20/20*+ [Re: 2020!](messages/327327.html) - **Glinka** *20:11:50 1/13/20*+ [Re: 2020!](messages/327320.html) - **Anthony** *12:43:54 1/11/20*+ [Re: 2020!](messages/327315.html) - **J.M.M.** *09:31:44 1/11/20*+ [Re: 2020!](messages/327313.html) - **Hairball** *05:45:34 1/11/20** [Update [PIC]](messages/327295.html) - **Jason** *09:53:14 1/06/20*
> + [Re: Update](messages/327350.html) - **PhilipZ** *17:08:40 1/20/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327353.html) - **Jason** *04:41:17 1/22/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327319.html) - **Anthony** *12:40:46 1/11/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327326.html) - **Jason** *05:32:54 1/13/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327309.html) - **Vincent** *13:43:08 1/09/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327310.html) - **Jason** *10:27:08 1/10/20*+ [Re: Update](messages/327300.html) - **DavidN** *13:11:46 1/06/20*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327302.html) - **Jason** *13:50:54 1/06/20*
> * [Photo as my hair is now. [PIC]](messages/327303.html) - **DavidN** *02:35:51 1/07/20*
> + [Re: Photo as my hair is now.](messages/327304.html) - **Jason** *06:10:20 1/07/20*
> - [Re: Photo as my hair is now.](messages/327305.html) - **DavidN** *06:35:33 1/07/20*+ [Family [PIC]](messages/327297.html) - **Jason** *09:54:49 1/06/20*
> - [Family update](messages/327311.html) - **White Tail** *10:55:30 1/10/20*
> * [Re: Family update](messages/327316.html) - **Jason** *09:40:15 1/11/20*- [Re: Family Recent [PIC]](messages/327299.html) - **Jason** *10:43:26 1/06/20*
> * [Re: Family Recent](messages/327307.html) - **A,D.** *14:21:28 1/07/20*
> + [Re: Family Recent](messages/327308.html) - **Jason** *09:53:10 1/08/20*+ [Front View [PIC]](messages/327296.html) - **Jason** *09:53:59 1/06/20*
> - [Re: Front View](messages/327314.html) - **Hairball** *05:51:59 1/11/20*
> * [Re: Front View](messages/327317.html) - **Jason** *09:41:47 1/11/20** [Yearly Update [PIC]](messages/327294.html) - **A,D.** *21:08:37 1/05/20*
> + [Re: Yearly Update](messages/327298.html) - **Jason** *09:57:12 1/06/20*
> - [Re: Yearly Update](messages/327306.html) - **A,D.** *14:08:47 1/07/20** [Master Hector Ramos](messages/327291.html) - **Marco** *08:53:14 12/31/19*
> + [Re: Master Hector Ramos](messages/327333.html) - **Jacob U** *16:23:26 1/18/20*+ [Re: Master Hector Ramos](messages/327292.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:19:48 12/31/19** [Kenny Leckremo](messages/327287.html) - **Marco** *14:03:14 12/26/19*
> + [Re: Kenny Leckremo](messages/327288.html) - **Jacob U** *19:31:18 12/28/19** [MERRY CHRISTMAS [PIC]](messages/327285.html) - **White Tail** *09:50:27 12/25/19*
> + [Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS](messages/327293.html) - **Vincent** *08:53:14 1/03/20*+ [Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS](messages/327290.html) - **Glinka** *12:51:09 12/30/19*+ [Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS](messages/327289.html) - **BruceJ** *21:43:45 12/28/19*+ [Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS](messages/327286.html) - **Hairball** *03:33:56 12/26/19** [Danny Cecati is back](messages/327282.html) - **Marco** *16:53:05 12/23/19*
> + [Re: Danny Cecati is back](messages/327283.html) - **Jacob U** *19:30:40 12/23/19*
> - [Follow Up after some Research](messages/327284.html) - **Jacob U** *21:05:11 12/23/19** [Longhair Guy in Promotional Video](messages/327274.html) - **doninisrael** *02:57:41 12/06/19*
> + [Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video](messages/327279.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:46:46 12/09/19*
> - [Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video](messages/327280.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:53:11 12/09/19*
> * [Wow, an actor with really long hair !](messages/327281.html) - **Jacob U** *09:52:42 12/09/19*+ [Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video](messages/327277.html) - **Marco** *08:57:50 12/06/19*+ [Re: Longhair Guy in Promotional Video](messages/327275.html) - **Yadgar** *03:15:01 12/06/19** [HairForce Kalender 2020](messages/327273.html) - **Marco** *05:40:37 12/04/19*
> + [Re: HairForce Kalender 2020](messages/327276.html) - **Yadgar** *03:19:00 12/06/19** [Just another pic of my hair [PIC]](messages/327268.html) - **Crim** *09:58:11 12/01/19*
> + [Re: Just another pic of my hair](messages/327270.html) - **Marco** *03:34:20 12/02/19** [Over conditioning?](messages/327267.html) - **BlueBeard** *14:13:01 11/30/19*
> + [Just moisturize the hair](messages/327271.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:22:09 12/03/19*
> - [Re: Just moisturize the hair](messages/327278.html) - **zenpriest** *04:53:40 12/07/19** [I'd like this as my new profile pic [PIC]](messages/327263.html) - **Kenneth** *05:28:53 11/24/19*
> + [Re: I'd like this as my new profile pic](messages/327445.html) - **Vino** *16:37:26 4/05/20*+ [new profile pic](messages/327266.html) - **White Tail** *09:14:14 11/24/19*+ [Re: I'd like this as my new profile pic](messages/327265.html) - **Hairball** *05:33:43 11/24/19** [Elliott Joseph](messages/327260.html) - **Marco** *03:52:59 11/02/19** [2 Year Update At The Apple Tree [PIC]](messages/327255.html) - **Don** *19:58:38 10/24/19*
> + [Looking good !](messages/327258.html) - **Glinka** *08:29:12 10/27/19*+ [Re: 2 Year Update At The Apple Tree Front View [PIC]](messages/327256.html) - **Don** *20:04:26 10/24/19*
> - [Re: 2 Year Update At The Apple Tree Front View](messages/327257.html) - **White Tail** *09:09:48 10/25/19** [Hasan Demir](messages/327252.html) - **Marco** *08:04:07 10/20/19*
> + [Long hair guys on a popular app?](messages/327259.html) - **Jacob U** *11:39:49 10/27/19** [Breakage at the bangs? [PIC]](messages/327248.html) - **SavageHair** *09:12:13 10/12/19*
> + [Re: Breakage at the bangs? [PIC]](messages/327251.html) - **SavageHair** *03:27:56 10/18/19** [Finally, a contest for men with long hair!](messages/327246.html) - **Jacob U** *19:05:55 10/11/19*
> + [Additional information](messages/327247.html) - **Jacob U** *19:12:00 10/11/19*
> - [Re: Additional information](messages/327249.html) - **Todd** *13:53:34 10/13/19*
> * [Indeed](messages/327250.html) - **Jacob U** *17:06:30 10/13/19** [Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?](messages/327243.html) - **Jacob U** *09:34:48 10/10/19*
> + [Follow Up Information](messages/327254.html) - **Jacob U** *12:30:36 10/21/19*+ [Re: Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?](messages/327245.html) - **J.M.M.** *13:48:29 10/11/19*+ [Re: Male hair and female hair are different? Since when?](messages/327244.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:10:19 10/11/19** [Rebearding... [PIC]](messages/327241.html) - **Yadgar** *04:19:04 10/09/19*
> + [Re: Rebearding...](messages/327253.html) - **Abaslom** *22:27:52 10/20/19** [Ankle length](messages/327238.html) - **Marco** *14:09:16 10/08/19*
> + [Re: Ankle length](messages/327242.html) - **Jacob U** *15:36:08 10/09/19*+ [Re: Ankle length](messages/327240.html) - **Yomaku** *23:10:57 10/08/19** [How has having long hair affected your dating life? [PIC]](messages/327222.html) - **Avi** *05:01:17 10/06/19*
> + [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327235.html) - **Cameron** *06:11:42 10/08/19*+ [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327232.html) - **native carolinian** *12:17:47 10/07/19*
> - [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327239.html) - **Avi** *15:49:11 10/08/19*+ [What I did when I was 18](messages/327228.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:15:29 10/07/19*
> - [Re: What I did when I was 18](messages/327230.html) - **Avi** *09:44:35 10/07/19*
> * [Re: What I did when I was 18](messages/327233.html) - **BlueBeard** *12:59:55 10/07/19*+ [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327226.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:16:35 10/06/19*+ [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327224.html) - **Gene W** *11:52:54 10/06/19*
> - [Re: How has having long hair affected your dating life?](messages/327225.html) - **Avi** *15:42:04 10/06/19** [Locks of Love](messages/327221.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:39:51 10/05/19*
> + [Re: Locks of Love](messages/327231.html) - **Cameron** *12:17:42 10/07/19*
> - [Re: Locks of Love](messages/328016.html) - **Long hair in Albany** *15:37:12 11/03/21*- [Re: Locks of Love](messages/327234.html) - **MG** *03:11:30 10/08/19*
> * [Re: Locks of Love](messages/327237.html) - **Cameron** *10:03:37 10/08/19*
> + [Re: Locks of Love](messages/327262.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:46:26 11/09/19** [8 months of hair growth [PIC]](messages/327215.html) - **BlueBeard** *12:28:37 10/03/19** [Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327207.html) - **Avi** *15:10:17 9/29/19*
> + [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327219.html) - **Jack** *08:34:45 10/05/19*+ [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327213.html) - **Gene W** *08:14:51 10/03/19*
> - [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327216.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:20:44 10/03/19*+ [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327209.html) - **native carolinian** *06:25:14 10/01/19*
> - [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327211.html) - **Avi** *06:26:07 10/02/19*
> * [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327217.html) - **yoshiki** *08:34:34 10/05/19*
> + [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327223.html) - **Avi** *05:01:23 10/06/19** [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327214.html) - **native carolinian** *08:14:57 10/03/19*
> + [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327220.html) - **Avi** *08:34:50 10/05/19** [Kempt is the word of the day](messages/327212.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:22:29 10/02/19*+ [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair](messages/327208.html) - **John** *11:13:23 9/30/19*
> - [Re: Dealing with parent's discomfort over long hair [PIC]](messages/327210.html) - **Avi** *06:26:02 10/02/19** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/327204.html) - **MarkS** *12:32:34 9/28/19*
> + [update...yeah](messages/327205.html) - **White Tail** *11:37:31 9/29/19*
> - [Re: update...yeah](messages/327206.html) - **MarkS** *12:01:59 9/29/19** [Remember when Maury hated long hair?](messages/327203.html) - **Jacob U** *01:31:15 9/28/19*
> + [It's not really forced if they wanted it.](messages/327264.html) - **Kenneth** *05:28:58 11/24/19*
> - [Re: It's not really forced if they wanted it.](messages/327269.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:19:39 12/01/19*+ [Re: Remember when Maury hated long hair?](messages/327227.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:31:16 10/06/19*
> - [I see your point.](messages/327229.html) - **Jacob U** *09:34:37 10/07/19*
> * [Re: I see your point.](messages/327236.html) - **Darrin** *06:58:00 10/08/19** [Bohemian headdress for guys [PIC]](messages/327200.html) - **BlueBeard** *08:27:10 9/25/19** [Recent Pic [PIC]](messages/327196.html) - **SavageHair** *14:33:05 9/22/19** [3rd time charm, minoxidil + onion juice](messages/327195.html) - **katana** *06:18:12 9/21/19** [Hello again longhairs! [PIC]](messages/327186.html) - **kubanpanzer** *03:07:02 9/17/19*
> + [Re: Hello again longhairs!](messages/327189.html) - **BruceJ** *20:48:01 9/17/19*
> - [Re: Hello again longhairs!](messages/327193.html) - **kubanpanzer** *17:37:24 9/19/19** [Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327179.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:51:28 9/15/19*
> + [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327197.html) - **SavageHair** *14:33:11 9/22/19*+ [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327194.html) - **kubanpanzer** *03:09:06 9/20/19*+ [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327192.html) - **Gene W** *09:26:51 9/18/19*+ [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327188.html) - **BruceJ** *12:01:13 9/17/19*+ [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327187.html) - **native carolinian** *03:07:08 9/17/19*+ [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327181.html) - **Todd** *17:26:30 9/15/19*
> - [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327183.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:14:12 9/16/19*
> * [Re: Boy tolld to cut hair or wear a dress](messages/327184.html) - **Cameron** *14:49:26 9/16/19** [So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327172.html) - **Kenneth** *04:35:45 9/14/19*
> + [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327190.html) - **BruceJ** *21:05:40 9/17/19*+ [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327182.html) - **Todd** *18:51:46 9/15/19*
> - [No fair!](messages/327185.html) - **Jacob U** *20:20:13 9/16/19*+ [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream. [PIC]](messages/327177.html) - **Bob J** *12:09:46 9/15/19*+ [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327176.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:50:48 9/15/19*+ [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327174.html) - **Jacob U** *14:11:33 9/14/19*
> - [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327175.html) - **Anthony** *16:46:51 9/14/19*+ [Re: So it looks like male long hair is now mainstream.](messages/327173.html) - **Anthony** *06:05:03 9/14/19** [Just straightened my hair [PIC]](messages/327171.html) - **Edmond** *03:16:26 9/13/19*
> + [Re: Just straightened my hair](messages/327191.html) - **BruceJ** *21:09:10 9/17/19** [Wheres the beyond knee length hair?](messages/327168.html) - **Jacob U** *00:59:34 9/11/19*
> + [Re: Wheres the beyond knee length hair?](messages/327169.html) - **Jacob U** *01:04:31 9/11/19*
> - [Re: Wheres the beyond knee length hair?](messages/327170.html) - **Bob J** *12:43:02 9/11/19** [Lawyer [PIC]](messages/327167.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:06:15 9/03/19** [Lawyer [PIC]](messages/327166.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:06:13 9/03/19** [been growing for a few years [PIC]](messages/327161.html) - **Crim** *19:45:02 8/31/19*
> + [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327272.html) - **Long Hair Boy** *03:30:32 12/04/19*+ [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327180.html) - **Bob J** *16:54:02 9/15/19*+ [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327178.html) - **Bob J** *12:13:09 9/15/19*+ [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327165.html) - **Yadgar** *03:29:54 9/03/19*+ [Youre an Inspiration!](messages/327164.html) - **Glinka** *17:25:05 9/02/19*+ [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327163.html) - **longhair511** *16:53:00 9/01/19*+ [Re: been growing for a few years](messages/327162.html) - **MG** *22:58:03 8/31/19** [Head wrap](messages/327146.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:22:19 8/12/19*
> + [Wearing hats doesn't cause baldness](messages/327160.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:20:43 8/20/19*+ [Re: Head wrap](messages/327154.html) - **native carolinian** *09:27:46 8/13/19*
> - [Re: Head wrap](messages/327156.html) - **Cameron** *09:13:27 8/15/19*
> * [Re: Head wrap](messages/327157.html) - **native carolinian** *10:24:51 8/16/19*
> + [Just being practical](messages/327159.html) - **BlueBeard** *12:14:39 8/19/19** [Hit the 8 Year Mark [PIC]](messages/327142.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:06:49 8/09/19*
> + [Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark](messages/327158.html) - **Bob J** *14:50:27 8/16/19*+ [Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark](messages/327150.html) - **Glinka** *11:29:10 8/12/19*+ [Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark](messages/327148.html) - **Glinka** *11:29:00 8/12/19*+ [Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark](messages/327145.html) - **Hairball** *05:02:50 8/10/19*+ [Re: Hit the 8 Year Mark](messages/327144.html) - **Abaslom** *14:34:07 8/09/19*+ [lookin' good !](messages/327143.html) - **White Tail** *10:39:06 8/09/19** [7 month update [PIC]](messages/327136.html) - **Glinka** *18:25:42 8/07/19*
> + [Re: 7 month update](messages/327140.html) - **Raymond** *11:39:51 8/08/19*
> - [Re: Thanks !](messages/327149.html) - **Glinka** *11:29:05 8/12/19*+ [Re: 7 month update [PIC]](messages/327139.html) - **Glinka** *18:31:27 8/07/19*
> - [Re: 7 month update](messages/327147.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:54:06 8/12/19*
> * [Re: 7 month update [PIC]](messages/327155.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:00:57 8/13/19*+ [Re: 7 month update [PIC]](messages/327138.html) - **Glinka** *18:28:36 8/07/19*+ [Re: 7 month update [PIC]](messages/327137.html) - **Glinka** *18:27:35 8/07/19** [any HAMMERFALL fans here?](messages/327134.html) - **Clint** *10:31:16 8/06/19** [Why?](messages/327132.html) - **Clint** *11:49:57 8/03/19*
> + [Re: Why?](messages/327135.html) - **Cameron** *15:45:10 8/07/19*
> - [Re: Why?](messages/327141.html) - **Glinka** *06:13:12 8/09/19*+ [Re: Why?](messages/327133.html) - **Jacob U** *19:47:47 8/03/19** [Making it bushy?](messages/327131.html) - **Wildman** *11:49:52 8/03/19*
> + [Re: Dont see why not ?](messages/327153.html) - **Glinka** *19:18:54 8/12/19*+ [Re: Dont see why not ?](messages/327151.html) - **Glinka** *19:17:31 8/12/19*
> - [Re: Dont see why not ?](messages/327152.html) - **Glinka** *19:18:39 8/12/19** [Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327122.html) - **Clint** *06:04:12 7/31/19*
> + [Re: Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327128.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:20:34 8/01/19*
> - [Re: Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327129.html) - **Tom** *17:26:32 8/01/19*+ [Re: Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327124.html) - **Jacob U** *02:44:24 8/01/19*
> - [Re: Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327127.html) - **DannyT** *09:51:00 8/01/19*
> * [Who?](messages/327130.html) - **Jacob U** *18:06:34 8/01/19*- [Re: Long Haired Rock Band!](messages/327126.html) - **Yadgar** *05:33:48 8/01/19** [male rapunzel [PIC]](messages/327102.html) - **Danny** *12:38:21 7/22/19*
> + [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327198.html) - **SavageHair** *14:33:16 9/22/19*+ [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327114.html) - **Daniil Kvyat** *12:55:32 7/29/19*
> - [What do you mean, no?](messages/327115.html) - **Jacob U** *17:52:41 7/29/19*
> * [Re: What do you mean, no?](messages/327119.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:49:08 7/30/19*
> + [Re: What do you mean, no?](messages/327121.html) - **MG** *23:46:01 7/30/19*+ [Alright then](messages/327120.html) - **Jacob U** *18:01:27 7/30/19*
> - [Re: Alright then](messages/327123.html) - **native carolinian** *06:04:17 7/31/19*
> * [I see your point.](messages/327125.html) - **Jacob U** *02:47:31 8/01/19*+ [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327113.html) - **Abaslom** *12:29:16 7/29/19*
> - [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327116.html) - **Hairball** *18:59:07 7/29/19*+ [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327111.html) - **Marco** *07:14:07 7/24/19*+ [Re: male rapunzel](messages/327108.html) - **Yomaku** *08:28:42 7/23/19*+ [Germans love long hair! Right?](messages/327104.html) - **Jacob U** *13:33:01 7/22/19*
> - [Re: Germans love long hair! Right?](messages/327105.html) - **Todd** *17:07:30 7/22/19*
> * [Fair enough.](messages/327106.html) - **Jacob Urnosky** *18:53:21 7/22/19*
> + [Oops. I accidentally spelled out the U in my alias!](messages/327107.html) - **Jacob U** *20:33:43 7/22/19*+ [Germans love long hair! Right?](messages/327103.html) - **Jacob U** *13:32:59 7/22/19** [Hair up for 1st time nearly all day in over a year](messages/327098.html) - **native carolinian** *03:19:27 7/19/19** [Weird question](messages/327096.html) - **lifobryan** *18:49:51 7/17/19*
> + [Re: Weird question](messages/327118.html) - **Abaslom** *21:40:00 7/29/19*+ [Re: Weird question](messages/327097.html) - **Hairball** *18:14:16 7/18/19*
> - [Re: Weird question](messages/327100.html) - **lifobryan** *11:58:33 7/21/19*- [Dry damaged hair?](messages/327099.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:46:22 7/19/19*
> * [Re: Dry damaged hair?](messages/327101.html) - **lifobryan** *11:58:38 7/21/19*
> + [oil + hair rinses](messages/327109.html) - **BlueBeard** *12:36:05 7/23/19*
> - [DIY deep conditioner](messages/327110.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:33:08 7/23/19*
> * [Re: DIY deep conditioner](messages/327112.html) - **lifobryan** *19:34:06 7/25/19** [Encounter with Long Haired Men](messages/327093.html) - **Jacob U** *17:39:37 7/16/19*
> + [Re: Encounter with Long Haired Men](messages/327094.html) - **native carolinian** *03:04:37 7/17/19** [Thinking of growing longer](messages/327090.html) - **Darrin** *19:20:01 7/15/19*
> + [Don't Think....](messages/327095.html) - **White Tail** *05:44:55 7/17/19*+ [Re: Thinking of growing longer](messages/327092.html) - **Raymond** *03:03:06 7/16/19*+ [Enjoy!](messages/327091.html) - **Yomaku** *23:05:29 7/15/19** [Still Alvie and well! [PIC]](messages/327086.html) - **doninisrael** *01:01:24 7/10/19*
> + [Re: Still Alvie and well!](messages/327117.html) - **Abaslom** *21:33:07 7/29/19*+ [Re: Still Alvie and well!](messages/327088.html) - **BruceJ** *19:21:04 7/11/19*+ [Re: Still Alvie and well! [PIC]](messages/327087.html) - **Anthony** *13:30:08 7/10/19*
> - [Re: Still Alvie and well!](messages/327089.html) - **BruceJ** *19:23:18 7/11/19** [No man has broken the hair world record?!](messages/327083.html) - **Jacob U** *00:13:03 7/09/19*
> + [Re: No man has broken the hair world record?!](messages/327084.html) - **native carolinian** *12:31:43 7/09/19*
> - [Who was this guy?](messages/327085.html) - **Jacob U** *13:43:41 7/09/19** [Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do... [PIC]](messages/327076.html) - **yoshiki** *19:11:58 6/30/19*
> + [Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do...](messages/327078.html) - **Yomaku** *03:40:39 7/01/19*+ [Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do...](messages/327077.html) - **Hairball** *19:27:31 6/30/19*
> - [Re: Comic Con ''Samurai'' hair do...](messages/327218.html) - **yoshiki** *08:34:39 10/05/19** [DIY coconut milk deep conditioner](messages/327075.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:04:38 6/30/19** [A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327072.html) - **tommmm** *18:13:26 6/28/19*
> + [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse? [PIC]](messages/327199.html) - **SavageHair** *14:33:21 9/22/19*+ [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327082.html) - **Darrin** *16:08:58 7/05/19*+ [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327074.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:57:24 6/29/19*
> - [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327079.html) - **native carolinian** *13:00:26 7/01/19*
> * [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327080.html) - **Tommmm** *04:06:56 7/04/19*
> + [Re: A wrong reason to grow your hair or bad excuse?](messages/327081.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:18:29 7/05/19** [Swamp Gypsy once more...](messages/327069.html) - **Yadgar** *03:42:38 6/28/19*
> + [Re: Swamp Gypsy once more... [PIC]](messages/327070.html) - **Yadgar** *03:45:21 6/28/19*
> - [Re: Swamp Gypsy once more... [PIC]](messages/327071.html) - **DannyT** *18:13:21 6/28/19*
> * [Re: Swamp Gypsy once more...](messages/327073.html) - **Yadgar** *05:28:27 6/29/19** [Hours of eye candy](messages/327060.html) - **Marco** *15:36:11 6/16/19*
> + [Re: Hours of eye candy](messages/327066.html) - **Yadgar** *18:50:24 6/19/19** [Baron Misuraca](messages/327055.html) - **Jacob U** *11:38:59 6/03/19*
> + [Re: Baron Misuraca](messages/327056.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:41:06 6/04/19** [Meet the real-life male Rapunzel !](messages/327050.html) - **DannyT** *10:42:24 5/26/19*
> + [Youtube Channel and Instagram](messages/327054.html) - **FruitMan** *09:30:02 5/30/19*+ [His hair is too short](messages/327053.html) - **Jacob U** *08:14:02 5/28/19*
> - [Re: His hair is too short](messages/327065.html) - **Jacob U** *17:14:56 6/19/19*+ [Re: Meet the real-life male Rapunzel !](messages/327052.html) - **MG** *22:22:47 5/26/19*+ [Re: Meet the real-life male Rapunzel !](messages/327051.html) - **Todd** *17:33:32 5/26/19** [Six months in](messages/327048.html) - **mrzen** *09:18:33 5/23/19*
> + [Re: Six months in](messages/327063.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:18:55 6/17/19*+ [Re: Six months in](messages/327049.html) - **Anthony** *14:01:24 5/23/19*
> - [Re: Six months in](messages/327057.html) - **Darrin** *04:19:28 6/07/19** [How to feed curls](messages/327046.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:33:38 5/20/19** [Does anyone know what happened to...](messages/327044.html) - **J.M.M.** *03:05:25 5/16/19** [Hiar caught in Machinery](messages/327042.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:14:00 5/14/19*
> + [Re: Hiar caught in Machinery](messages/327045.html) - **Anthony** *01:54:08 5/18/19*
> - [Re: Hiar caught in Machinery](messages/327047.html) - **Tommmm** *06:24:46 5/21/19** [Update [PIC]](messages/327034.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:43:42 5/12/19*
> + [Re: Update](messages/327039.html) - **Ted** *21:10:21 5/13/19*+ [Re: Update](messages/327036.html) - **Hairball** *14:32:53 5/12/19*
> - [Re: Update](messages/327040.html) - **Ted** *21:15:43 5/13/19*- [Re: Update](messages/327037.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:45:47 5/12/19** [I REALLYwant long hair](messages/327032.html) - **Ricardo** *05:50:33 5/11/19*
> + [Patience Grasshopper](messages/327043.html) - **Glinka** *20:12:02 5/15/19*+ [Distract people](messages/327038.html) - **BlueBeard** *12:00:33 5/13/19*+ [Re: I REALLYwant long hair](messages/327035.html) - **Gene W** *14:10:09 5/12/19*+ [Re: I REALLYwant long hair](messages/327033.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:11:47 5/11/19** [leave in hair something](messages/327030.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:44:07 5/08/19*
> + [Re: leave in hair something](messages/327058.html) - **Glinka** *03:29:33 6/10/19*+ [I deem you flaxseed juice :)](messages/327031.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:12:21 5/09/19** [What kind of brush is this? [PIC]](messages/327029.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:16:00 5/02/19** [Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati](messages/327022.html) - **Marco** *16:35:33 4/27/19*
> + [Re: Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati](messages/327028.html) - **Glinka** *17:47:56 4/29/19*+ [Hair extensions? [PIC]](messages/327025.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:14:58 4/29/19*
> - [Philadelphia](messages/327026.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:40:12 4/29/19*+ [Re: Hairfreaky / Danny Cecati](messages/327024.html) - **J.M.M.** *05:31:31 4/28/19*+ [Im concerned too.](messages/327023.html) - **Jacob U** *05:31:26 4/28/19** [2 years [PIC]](messages/327020.html) - **DannyT** *10:23:16 4/23/19*
> + [Welcome !](messages/327027.html) - **Glinka** *17:24:24 4/29/19** [11 years ago [PIC]](messages/327017.html) - **Glinka** *18:43:09 4/21/19*
> + [Re: 11 years ago](messages/327021.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:28:31 4/23/19** [Starting another Long Hair Journey [PIC]](messages/327006.html) - **Glinka** *20:11:21 4/15/19*
> + [Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey](messages/327013.html) - **Raymond** *04:47:34 4/20/19*
> - [Hey Ho .....Lets Go !](messages/327015.html) - **Glinka** *18:18:47 4/21/19*+ [Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey](messages/327012.html) - **BruceJ** *21:12:13 4/19/19*
> - [ I dont care what ya think no mo +#127932;](messages/327016.html) - **Glinka** *18:30:06 4/21/19*+ [Re: Starting another Long Hair Journey](messages/327009.html) - **longhair511** *19:30:40 4/16/19*
> - [Beard](messages/327014.html) - **Glinka** *18:12:50 4/21/19*
> * [Re: Beard](messages/327018.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:32:27 4/22/19*
> + [Re: Beard](messages/327019.html) - **Glinka** *02:56:35 4/23/19** [My Daughters Wedding [PIC]](messages/326999.html) - **James** *23:54:21 4/13/19*
> + [Re: My Daughters Wedding](messages/327041.html) - **GerryBrady** *03:03:07 5/14/19*+ [Re: My Daughters Wedding](messages/327011.html) - **BruceJ** *20:44:08 4/19/19*+ [Congrats !](messages/327005.html) - **Glinka** *19:57:19 4/15/19*+ [Congrats !](messages/327004.html) - **Glinka** *19:51:44 4/15/19*+ [Re: My Daughters Wedding](messages/327002.html) - **Hairball** *04:43:41 4/14/19*+ [Re: My Daughters Wedding [PIC]](messages/327001.html) - **James** *23:56:04 4/13/19*+ [Re: My Daughters Wedding [PIC]](messages/327000.html) - **James** *23:55:33 4/13/19** [Where are the videos?](messages/326994.html) - **Jacob U** *03:43:47 4/06/19*
> + [Re: Where are the videos?](messages/327003.html) - **DannyT** *09:52:10 4/15/19** [No hats [PIC]](messages/326991.html) - **James** *20:51:26 4/04/19*
> + [Re: No hats](messages/326997.html) - **Raymond** *21:59:59 4/08/19*+ [Re: No hats](messages/326995.html) - **Glunka** *18:09:03 4/07/19*+ [Re: No hats](messages/326992.html) - **doninisrael** *02:25:43 4/05/19** [Family Photo [PIC]](messages/326990.html) - **James** *20:49:01 4/04/19*
> + [Re: Family Photo](messages/326996.html) - **Glinka** *18:12:47 4/07/19** [7 year old with long hair](messages/326988.html) - **James** *20:09:14 4/04/19*
> + [Re: 7 year old with long hair](messages/326993.html) - **Jacob U** *03:43:40 4/06/19** [How fast do split ends really occur?](messages/326976.html) - **BlueBeard** *08:23:27 4/01/19*
> + [Re: How fast do split ends really occur?](messages/327010.html) - **BG** *03:05:02 4/19/19*+ [Re: How fast do split ends really occur?](messages/326980.html) - **Cameron** *19:53:39 4/02/19*
> - [I will pay more attention to my hair health now](messages/326987.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:50:01 4/03/19*+ [Re: How fast do split ends really occur?](messages/326978.html) - **Glinka** *20:08:14 4/01/19*
> - [Understandable](messages/326979.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:54:36 4/02/19** [Oh, These Rainy Days... [PIC]](messages/326972.html) - **doninisrael** *22:48:42 3/31/19*
> + [Quite a wild season](messages/326977.html) - **Yomaku** *11:54:24 4/01/19*
> - [Re: Quite a wild season](messages/326986.html) - **doninisrael** *22:04:59 4/02/19*+ [Looks good to me!](messages/326975.html) - **BlueBeard** *08:01:10 4/01/19*
> - [Re: Looks good to me!](messages/326985.html) - **doninisrael** *21:59:23 4/02/19** [Prom Hairstyles](messages/326971.html) - **Avi** *12:17:33 3/31/19*
> + [Re: Prom Hairstyles [PIC]](messages/326974.html) - **Ross** *03:11:09 4/01/19*+ [Re: Prom Hairstyles](messages/326973.html) - **MG** *23:14:16 3/31/19** [Preventing damage while swimming](messages/326961.html) - **BG** *13:09:00 3/19/19*
> + [Re: Preventing damage while swimming](messages/326983.html) - **PhilipZ** *21:38:17 4/02/19*+ [Re: Preventing damage while swimming [PIC]](messages/326963.html) - **Sugarcane** *18:12:26 3/20/19*
> - [Re: Preventing damage while swimming](messages/326964.html) - **BG** *07:46:27 3/21/19** [Natural Hair Rinses [PIC]](messages/326952.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:57:35 3/17/19*
> + [Re: Natural Hair Rinses](messages/326956.html) - **Raymond** *06:35:34 3/18/19*
> - [Re: Natural Hair Rinses](messages/326957.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:29:29 3/18/19*
> * [Re: Natural Hair Rinses](messages/326962.html) - **Raymond** *05:10:41 3/20/19** [Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326950.html) - **Avi** *04:58:52 3/17/19*
> + [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326982.html) - **PhilipZ** *21:22:01 4/02/19*+ [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326967.html) - **BruceJ** *11:15:09 3/22/19*+ [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326965.html) - **doninisrael** *01:02:07 3/22/19*
> - [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326966.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:40:27 3/22/19*+ [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326958.html) - **Jackson** *10:40:38 3/18/19*
> - [Good advice!](messages/326959.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:40:06 3/18/19*+ [Re: Feeling bad/low easily... :(](messages/326955.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:56:46 3/18/19*+ [Enjoy the ride](messages/326951.html) - **BlueBeard** *06:14:17 3/17/19** [Hair Growth](messages/326947.html) - **Razeinn** *16:41:29 3/16/19*
> + [Don't fight it!](messages/326969.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:10:41 3/25/19*+ [Re: Hair Growth](messages/326968.html) - **BruceJ** *16:11:36 3/22/19** [The experiment of letting hair down for two months.](messages/326942.html) - **WG** *19:08:05 3/14/19*
> + [Re: The experiment of letting hair down for two months.](messages/326946.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:23:02 3/16/19*+ [Re: The experiment of letting hair down for two months.](messages/326945.html) - **lifobryan** *05:22:33 3/16/19*+ [Really?](messages/326943.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:41:20 3/15/19*
> - [Re: Really?](messages/326944.html) - **MG** *23:18:01 3/15/19*
> * [Is he for real?](messages/326948.html) - **BlueBeard** *19:36:03 3/16/19*
> + [Maybe a stereotype?](messages/326949.html) - **BlueBeard** *19:49:39 3/16/19** [4 years [PIC]](messages/326939.html) - **Neal** *18:49:50 3/08/19*
> + [Re: 4 years](messages/326940.html) - **Raymond** *23:14:09 3/08/19** [Cant think clearly with head down.](messages/326938.html) - **Wadegarret** *12:45:12 3/08/19*
> + [Re: Cant think clearly with head down.](messages/326941.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *03:51:59 3/09/19** [History of Long Hair Presentation Help](messages/326937.html) - **Erik** *17:14:03 3/07/19** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/326929.html) - **Anthony** *08:04:00 3/04/19*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/327068.html) - **Lance** *18:23:14 6/26/19*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/326989.html) - **James** *20:16:51 4/04/19*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/326953.html) - **A.D.** *20:22:44 3/17/19*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/326930.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:58:53 3/04/19** [An Update [PIC]](messages/326914.html) - **Jason** *14:26:42 3/02/19*
> + [Re: An Update](messages/326960.html) - **BG** *13:08:55 3/19/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326954.html) - **A.D.** *20:26:18 3/17/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326935.html) - **Markus** *08:00:09 3/06/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326936.html) - **Jason** *09:22:14 3/06/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326931.html) - **Vincent** *13:15:54 3/04/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326933.html) - **Jason** *04:53:40 3/05/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326928.html) - **Anthony** *00:23:22 3/04/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326932.html) - **Jason** *04:51:38 3/05/19*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/326934.html) - **Anthony** *12:27:48 3/05/19*+ [Jason's back ! (pun intended)](messages/326922.html) - **White Tail** *11:17:06 3/03/19*
> - [Re: Jason's back ! (pun intended)](messages/326926.html) - **Jason** *16:33:45 3/03/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326921.html) - **Hairball** *05:29:26 3/03/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326925.html) - **Jason** *16:31:36 3/03/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326920.html) - **DavidN** *02:46:20 3/03/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326924.html) - **Jason** *16:29:12 3/03/19*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/326927.html) - **DavidN** *16:54:48 3/03/19*+ [Re: An Update](messages/326919.html) - **MG** *23:32:52 3/02/19*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/326923.html) - **Jason** *16:24:49 3/03/19** [Losing my Hair !](messages/326904.html) - **Glinka** *07:51:11 2/26/19*
> + [Re: Losing my Hair !](messages/326984.html) - **PhilipZ** *21:57:13 4/02/19*+ [the free and natual way to unclog the scalp [PIC]](messages/326905.html) - **BlueBeard** *16:32:04 2/26/19*
> - [Great Advice +#128515;+#128077;+#8252;+#65039;](messages/326907.html) - **Glinka** *03:08:42 2/28/19*
> * [Hopefully it works](messages/326908.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:14:26 2/28/19*
> + [Scalp massages](messages/326909.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:48:26 2/28/19*
> - [Microneedling for Hair Growth](messages/326912.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:20:00 2/28/19*
> * [wow](messages/326917.html) - **Glinka** *17:58:28 3/02/19** [wow](messages/326916.html) - **Glinka** *17:58:23 3/02/19** [wow](messages/326915.html) - **Glinka** *17:04:14 3/02/19*
> + [People are noticing](messages/326918.html) - **BlueBeard** *19:59:56 3/02/19** [When does the awkward phase end?](messages/326899.html) - **Avi** *04:52:43 2/24/19*
> + [Re: When does the awkward phase end?](messages/326998.html) - **Seminole** *17:34:43 4/11/19*+ [Re: When does the awkward phase end?](messages/326903.html) - **Jackson** *11:35:06 2/25/19*+ [Nine Inches](messages/326901.html) - **BlueBeard** *07:56:57 2/25/19*
> - [If now hair growth problems](messages/326902.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:29:43 2/25/19*
> * [Re: If now hair growth problems](messages/326906.html) - **Raymond** *11:05:41 2/27/19*
> + [Natural hair care](messages/326910.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:42:44 2/28/19*
> - [Apple Cider Vinegar shampoo recipe](messages/326911.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:50:22 2/28/19*+ [Re: When does the awkward phase end?](messages/326900.html) - **MG** *23:50:53 2/24/19** [Homemade Coconut Milk Shampoo](messages/326896.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:04:57 2/22/19*
> + [Make coconut ice cubes](messages/326897.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:10:01 2/22/19** [Grow Hair [PIC]](messages/326891.html) - **Keaton** *11:19:37 2/20/19*
> + [Hair Care Page](messages/326898.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:01:17 2/22/19*+ [Re: Grow Hair](messages/326894.html) - **Ted** *20:47:38 2/21/19*+ [Re: Grow Hair](messages/326893.html) - **Raymond** *19:23:41 2/21/19*+ [Re: Grow Hair](messages/326892.html) - **Anthony** *12:51:29 2/21/19** [Aloe Vera in the hair](messages/326889.html) - **BlueBeard** *16:03:36 2/19/19** [11.5 months growth from buzzcut [PIC]](messages/326886.html) - **tmk** *05:42:41 2/18/19*
> + [Re: 11.5 months growth from buzzcut](messages/326888.html) - **Raymond** *20:39:43 2/18/19** [DIY Flax seed Hair Gel](messages/326878.html) - **BlueBeard** *14:01:12 2/15/19*
> + [I like it! [PIC]](messages/326895.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:54:48 2/22/19*+ [Not bad](messages/326881.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:18:40 2/16/19** [Texture paste gives volume](messages/326872.html) - **BlueBeard** *08:03:13 2/12/19*
> + [Re: Texture paste gives volume](messages/326875.html) - **Raymond** *20:41:01 2/13/19*
> - [How to identify hair damage](messages/326877.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:13:30 2/15/19*
> * [What's your growth rate? [PIC]](messages/326879.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:00:26 2/15/19*
> + [Re: What's your growth rate?](messages/326885.html) - **Raymond** *19:41:51 2/17/19*+ [Re: What's your growth rate?](messages/326884.html) - **Raymond** *19:23:08 2/17/19*+ [Re: What's your growth rate?](messages/326883.html) - **Raymond** *19:21:47 2/17/19*+ [Re: What's your growth rate?](messages/326882.html) - **Raymond** *19:19:28 2/17/19*+ [2 years later [PIC]](messages/326880.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:51:35 2/15/19*
> - [Re: 2 years later](messages/326887.html) - **Raymond** *05:45:12 2/18/19** [Been awhile... [PIC]](messages/326865.html) - **yoshiki** *03:20:46 2/11/19*
> + [MPB Stats](messages/326873.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:33:52 2/12/19*
> - [Re: MPB Stats](messages/326874.html) - **yoshiki** *03:05:13 2/13/19*
> * [Re: MPB Stats](messages/326890.html) - **Raymond** *19:43:07 2/19/19** [Hair after accident](messages/326853.html) - **Sam** *04:58:27 2/10/19*
> + [Re: Hair after accident [PIC]](messages/326854.html) - **Jin** *07:07:13 2/10/19*
> - [Re: Hair after accident](messages/326860.html) - **Jin** *14:26:45 2/10/19*
> * [Scalp peel without damaging hair](messages/326866.html) - **BlueBeard** *11:42:38 2/11/19*
> + [Re: Scalp peel without damaging hair](messages/326868.html) - **Jin** *03:11:36 2/12/19*
> - [Remove the scalp shine](messages/326871.html) - **BlueBeard** *04:51:09 2/12/19*- [Re: Hair after accident](messages/326857.html) - **Sam** *10:45:30 2/10/19*- [Scalp cleansing](messages/326855.html) - **BlueBeard** *09:34:47 2/10/19** [Beeswax](messages/326843.html) - **BlueBeard** *08:54:15 2/08/19*
> + [maybe 50%](messages/326844.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:27:58 2/08/19** [My Hair, My Life [PIC]](messages/326838.html) - **Jin** *02:59:22 2/08/19*
> + [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326970.html) - **Glinka** *17:10:59 3/26/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326876.html) - **FruitMan** *15:26:33 2/14/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326867.html) - **Rick** *17:01:00 2/11/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326869.html) - **Jin** *03:11:42 2/12/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life [PIC]](messages/326859.html) - **Jason** *10:49:22 2/10/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326862.html) - **Jin** *14:29:52 2/10/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326858.html) - **SAM** *10:45:35 2/10/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326863.html) - **Jin** *14:30:56 2/10/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326856.html) - **fabio** *10:45:25 2/10/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326861.html) - **Jin** *14:28:31 2/10/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326849.html) - **MG** *00:19:06 2/09/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326852.html) - **Jin** *05:19:02 2/09/19*
> * [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326864.html) - **MG** *23:31:41 2/10/19*
> + [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326870.html) - **Jin** *03:11:48 2/12/19*+ [A Selfie [PIC]](messages/326848.html) - **Jin** *17:36:58 2/08/19*
> - [Re: A Selfie](messages/326913.html) - **Todd** *12:03:52 3/02/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life [PIC]](messages/326845.html) - **Sugarcane** *17:36:42 2/08/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326851.html) - **Jin** *05:18:57 2/09/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326842.html) - **Yomaku** *08:49:16 2/08/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326847.html) - **Jin** *17:36:52 2/08/19*
> * [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326850.html) - **Yomaku** *02:42:45 2/09/19*+ [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326839.html) - **BlueBeard** *04:31:12 2/08/19*
> - [Re: My Hair, My Life](messages/326846.html) - **Jin** *17:36:47 2/08/19** [Natural Scalp Rinse](messages/326837.html) - **BlueBeard** *14:47:32 2/07/19** [vintage [PIC]](messages/326828.html) - **Franko** *11:31:33 2/01/19*
> + [Re: vintage](messages/326832.html) - **Raymond** *20:37:45 2/02/19*
> - [Re: vintage](messages/326833.html) - **Franko** *10:32:24 2/03/19*+ [Re: vintage](messages/326831.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:37:32 2/02/19*+ [Re: vintage](messages/326829.html) - **Markus** *14:42:09 2/01/19*
> - [Re: vintage](messages/326830.html) - **Franko** *05:00:13 2/02/19** [Terminal Length [PIC]](messages/326826.html) - **Joseph** *03:02:41 2/01/19*
> + [Re: Terminal Length](messages/326840.html) - **BlueBeard** *06:37:12 2/08/19*
> - [Trim frequency](messages/326841.html) - **BlueBeard** *06:55:29 2/08/19*+ [Re: Terminal Length](messages/326827.html) - **Raymond** *04:33:52 2/01/19** [Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's](messages/326824.html) - **DaveK** *17:18:11 1/30/19*
> + [Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's](messages/326836.html) - **Gene W** *08:31:47 2/07/19*+ [Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's](messages/326825.html) - **sj** *03:12:30 1/31/19*
> - [Re: Long hair on men between WWI and the 50's](messages/326834.html) - **DaveK** *10:32:29 2/03/19** [Hair Growth Rate](messages/326822.html) - **BlueBeard** *17:53:10 1/28/19** [Damaged hair now gone](messages/326814.html) - **BlueBeard** *05:36:31 1/27/19*
> + [How I damaged my hair for 18 years](messages/326819.html) - **BlueBeard** *10:42:53 1/28/19*
> - [2 Pictures worth a thousand words! [PIC]](messages/326823.html) - **BlueBeard** *15:52:29 1/29/19*- [important advice](messages/326820.html) - **White Tail** *10:54:20 1/28/19*
> * [Re: important advice](messages/326821.html) - **BlueBeard** *13:47:22 1/28/19*+ [Re: Damaged hair now gone](messages/326816.html) - **Raymond** *19:41:36 1/27/19*
> - [Regular trims for length?](messages/326817.html) - **BlueBeard** *19:55:00 1/27/19** [8 month update [PIC]](messages/326813.html) - **DunderThome** *05:21:55 1/27/19*
> + [Re: 8 month update [PIC]](messages/326815.html) - **DunderThome** *10:35:53 1/27/19** [Another charity wants your hair](messages/326801.html) - **Tommmm** *11:04:01 1/24/19*
> + [Re: Another charity wants your hair](messages/326811.html) - **Cameron** *11:04:53 1/25/19*
> - [Re: Another charity wants your hair](messages/326812.html) - **Tommmm** *05:21:50 1/27/19*
> * [Re: Another charity wants your hair](messages/326818.html) - **Cameron** *05:23:40 1/28/19*+ [Re: Another charity wants your hair](messages/326810.html) - **Anthony** *04:04:04 1/25/19** [Still Growing [PIC]](messages/326797.html) - **nuttidave** *17:46:56 1/23/19*
> + [Re: Still Growing](messages/326802.html) - **Justin** *11:15:02 1/24/19*
> - [Re: Still Growing](messages/326805.html) - **nuttidave** *12:34:26 1/24/19*
> * [Re: Still Growing](messages/326806.html) - **Justin** *15:20:39 1/24/19*+ [Re: Still Growing](messages/326800.html) - **DavidN** *01:40:57 1/24/19*
> - [Re: Still Growing](messages/326804.html) - **nuttidave** *12:27:07 1/24/19*
> * [Re: Still Growing](messages/326809.html) - **DavidN** *02:52:38 1/25/19*+ [Re: Still Growing](messages/326799.html) - **Ted** *18:00:24 1/23/19*
> - [Re: Still Growing](messages/326803.html) - **nuttidave** *12:24:28 1/24/19*
> * [Re: Still Growing](messages/326808.html) - **Ted** *21:15:12 1/24/19** [Hair picture [PIC]](messages/326796.html) - **Tommmm** *09:36:55 1/22/19*
> + [Re: Hair picture](messages/326798.html) - **Raymond** *17:47:01 1/23/19*
> - [Re: Hair picture](messages/326807.html) - **tommmm** *18:33:11 1/24/19** [Knee length](messages/326790.html) - **Marco** *11:26:29 1/20/19*
> + [Re: Knee length](messages/326793.html) - **Yomaku** *10:59:42 1/21/19*+ [Re: Knee length](messages/326792.html) - **Daniël** *09:43:14 1/21/19*+ [Re: Knee length](messages/326791.html) - **Todd** *16:57:05 1/20/19*
> - [Re: Knee length](messages/326794.html) - **MG** *22:27:26 1/21/19** [Lovely swamp gypsy!](messages/326783.html) - **Yadgar** *01:02:57 1/05/19** [End of Year Pic 2018 [PIC]](messages/326775.html) - **Bob J** *15:43:49 12/29/18*
> + [Re: End of Year Pic 2018](messages/326780.html) - **Hairball** *14:24:01 1/01/19*+ [Great New Year's Resolution](messages/326779.html) - **White Tail** *10:27:12 1/01/19** [growing hair](messages/326773.html) - **herta** *05:36:17 12/29/18*
> + [Re: growing hair](messages/326786.html) - **Darrin** *13:55:27 1/14/19*
> - [Re: growing hair](messages/326795.html) - **herta** *03:03:10 1/22/19** [Yearly update [PIC]](messages/326769.html) - **A.D.** *18:53:18 12/27/18*
> + [Re: Yearly update [PIC]](messages/326770.html) - **A.D.** *18:55:31 12/27/18*
> - [Re: Yearly update](messages/326784.html) - **Ted** *05:40:56 1/06/19*
> * [Re: Yearly update](messages/326787.html) - **A.D.** *15:07:52 1/17/19*
> + [Re: Yearly update](messages/326788.html) - **Ted** *20:38:55 1/17/19*- [Re: Yearly update](messages/326781.html) - **Hairball** *14:26:59 1/01/19*
> * [Re: Yearly update](messages/326782.html) - **A.D.** *18:08:23 1/01/19*- [Re: Yearly update](messages/326776.html) - **Darrin** *18:10:36 12/29/18*
> * [Re: Yearly update](messages/326777.html) - **A.D.** *10:45:54 12/30/18*
> + [Re: Yearly update](messages/326778.html) - **Darrin** *14:57:40 12/31/18*- [Re: Yearly update](messages/326772.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:43:37 12/28/18*
> * [Re: Yearly update](messages/326774.html) - **A.D.** *10:56:21 12/29/18** [Dreadlocks](messages/326768.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:00:44 12/26/18** [Greetings](messages/326766.html) - **MG** *23:17:18 12/25/18*
> + [Re: Greetings](messages/326767.html) - **Daniël** *00:01:37 12/26/18** [Cleitom Njord Drago](messages/326763.html) - **Marco** *15:06:45 12/20/18*
> + [Another](messages/326765.html) - **Marco** *10:35:57 12/21/18*+ [Re: Cleitom Njord Drago](messages/326764.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:33:47 12/21/18** [In-between long and short](messages/326743.html) - **Brayton** *08:46:47 12/14/18*
> + [Re: In-between long and short](messages/326754.html) - **Guilherme S.** *04:37:10 12/16/18*
> - [Re: Re: In-between long and short](messages/326756.html) - **Brayton** *03:04:43 12/18/18*
> * [Re: Re: In-between long and short](messages/326760.html) - **Guilherme S.** *17:47:33 12/19/18*
> + [Re: Re: Re: In-between long and short](messages/326762.html) - **Brayton** *06:22:30 12/20/18*+ [Re: In-between long and short](messages/326745.html) - **Darrin** *10:39:24 12/14/18** [7 Years and 8 months update. [PIC]](messages/326730.html) - **Lance** *02:59:23 12/12/18*
> + [sans [PIC]](messages/326761.html) - **Joaquin** *17:52:53 12/19/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326755.html) - **Hairball** *04:54:21 12/16/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326759.html) - **Lance** *06:27:30 12/19/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326748.html) - **Bob J** *16:18:17 12/15/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326750.html) - **Lance** *21:41:19 12/15/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326744.html) - **White Tail** *08:49:21 12/14/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326751.html) - **Lance** *21:42:18 12/15/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326734.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:54:27 12/12/18*
> - [Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326739.html) - **Lance** *16:34:08 12/13/18*
> * [Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326742.html) - **Daniël** *19:25:17 12/13/18*
> + [Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326981.html) - **PhilipZ** *20:03:36 4/02/19*+ [Re: Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326752.html) - **Lance** *21:49:17 12/15/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326733.html) - **Guilherme S.** *16:22:09 12/12/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326738.html) - **Lance** *16:34:03 12/13/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326732.html) - **Darrin** *05:52:33 12/12/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 8 months update.](messages/326737.html) - **Lance** *16:33:58 12/13/18** [Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair) [PIC]](messages/326725.html) - **Guilherme S.** *08:09:32 12/10/18*
> + [Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair)](messages/326731.html) - **Lance** *02:59:28 12/12/18*+ [Long time no see](messages/326729.html) - **White Tail** *09:56:28 12/11/18*+ [Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair)](messages/326728.html) - **Daniël** *08:15:19 12/11/18*+ [Re: Long time no see (5 years and 6 months hair)](messages/326726.html) - **Yomaku** *08:15:22 12/10/18** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/326721.html) - **Darrin** *18:24:15 12/03/18*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/326727.html) - **Yomaku** *08:20:09 12/10/18*
> - [Re: Hair update](messages/326736.html) - **Darrin** *05:29:33 12/13/18*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/326724.html) - **A.D.** *18:45:00 12/06/18*
> - [Re: Hair update](messages/326749.html) - **Darrin** *17:03:26 12/15/18** [Urge to trim 4 inches](messages/326717.html) - **Darrin** *11:17:50 12/03/18*
> + [Re: Urge to trim 4 inches](messages/326723.html) - **A.D.** *18:42:28 12/06/18*+ [Re: Urge to trim 4 inches](messages/326719.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:24:20 12/03/18** [Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326710.html) - **Avi** *23:37:18 11/30/18*
> + [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326789.html) - **Tom** *16:21:09 1/18/19*+ [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326735.html) - **Nathan** *03:00:33 12/13/18*
> - [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326741.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:42:31 12/13/18*- [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326740.html) - **Guilherme S.** *16:34:14 12/13/18*+ [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326713.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:53:56 12/01/18*
> - [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326716.html) - **Avi** *17:27:35 12/02/18*- [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326714.html) - **Darrin** *15:25:32 12/01/18*
> * [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326718.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:19:00 12/03/18*+ [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326711.html) - **Hairball** *05:29:17 12/01/18*
> - [Re: Dad keeps bothering me about my hair](messages/326715.html) - **Avi** *17:26:20 12/02/18** [Howdy [PIC]](messages/326705.html) - **Jay Scott** *03:04:06 11/30/18*
> + [Re: Howdy](messages/326753.html) - **nuttidave** *04:37:04 12/16/18*+ [Re: Howdy](messages/326712.html) - **Hairball** *05:31:34 12/01/18*+ [Re: Howdy](messages/326706.html) - **Raymond** *06:52:49 11/30/18** [Hairforce Kalender 2019](messages/326703.html) - **Marco** *07:55:02 11/27/18*
> + [Re: Hairforce Kalender 2019](messages/326704.html) - **Hairball** *16:13:12 11/27/18** [''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? [PIC]](messages/326690.html) - **ManeBear** *18:34:02 11/22/18*
> + [Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ?](messages/326697.html) - **Raymond** *05:55:26 11/24/18*+ [Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ?](messages/326692.html) - **Yadgar** *12:57:22 11/23/18*
> - [Re: ''On Being a Longhair'' : Translation to German ? [PIC]](messages/326696.html) - **ManeBear** *18:31:14 11/23/18** [Update [PIC]](messages/326676.html) - **nuttidave** *14:23:16 11/21/18*
> + [Re: Update](messages/326757.html) - **Vincent** *07:23:01 12/18/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326771.html) - **nuttidave** *10:43:23 12/28/18*+ [Re: Update](messages/326701.html) - **Daniël** *17:49:56 11/25/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326746.html) - **nuttidave** *12:42:19 12/15/18*+ [Re: Update](messages/326691.html) - **Jason** *18:36:45 11/22/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326694.html) - **nuttidave** *14:08:42 11/23/18*
> * [Re: Update](messages/326698.html) - **Jason** *09:51:04 11/25/18*
> + [Re: Update](messages/326747.html) - **nuttidave** *12:46:13 12/15/18*+ [chaos indeed](messages/326684.html) - **White Tail** *09:06:21 11/22/18*
> - [Re: chaos indeed](messages/326689.html) - **nuttidave** *16:07:48 11/22/18*- [Re: chaos indeed](messages/326687.html) - **nuttidave** *14:30:24 11/22/18*+ [Re: Update](messages/326682.html) - **Ted** *06:02:55 11/22/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326685.html) - **nuttidave** *13:45:33 11/22/18*
> * [Re: Update](messages/326688.html) - **Ted** *14:44:42 11/22/18*
> + [Re: Update](messages/326693.html) - **nuttidave** *14:04:04 11/23/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326702.html) - **Ted** *21:26:56 11/26/18*+ [Re: Update](messages/326680.html) - **Hairball** *05:53:47 11/22/18*
> - [Re: Update](messages/326686.html) - **nuttidave** *13:51:23 11/22/18** [Update after a long time [PIC]](messages/326675.html) - **S** *06:14:14 11/21/18*
> + [Re: Update after a long time](messages/326700.html) - **Daniël** *17:46:33 11/25/18*+ [Re: Update after a long time](messages/326679.html) - **Hairball** *05:45:41 11/22/18*
> - [Re: Update after a long time](messages/326683.html) - **S** *08:28:24 11/22/18** [Anti long hair preacher](messages/326663.html) - **Mike** *05:15:54 11/17/18*
> + [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326670.html) - **Yadgar** *06:16:30 11/19/18*+ [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326669.html) - **Anthony** *12:14:19 11/18/18*
> - [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326673.html) - **Cameron** *05:18:33 11/21/18*
> * [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326674.html) - **Anthony** *05:56:39 11/21/18*- [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326671.html) - **Yadgar** *16:11:12 11/19/18*+ [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326668.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:23:28 11/18/18*+ [Re: Anti long hair preacher](messages/326664.html) - **Ted** *10:55:24 11/17/18** [Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326654.html) - **Avi** *17:26:17 11/14/18*
> + [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326667.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:28:53 11/17/18*
> - [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326707.html) - **Avi** *18:47:15 11/30/18*+ [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326662.html) - **doninisrael** *03:45:24 11/16/18*
> - [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326708.html) - **Avi** *18:48:12 11/30/18*+ [[PIC]Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326658.html) - **Avi** *06:14:25 11/15/18*+ [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326656.html) - **Avi** *03:03:27 11/15/18*
> - [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326699.html) - **Daniël** *17:37:08 11/25/18*
> * [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326709.html) - **Avi** *18:49:02 11/30/18*+ [Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326655.html) - **Raymond** *19:49:57 11/14/18*
> - [[PIC] Re: Tied my hair back for the first time in my life :D](messages/326657.html) - **Avi** *06:14:20 11/15/18** [3 Yrs [PIC]](messages/326646.html) - **MattT** *05:01:33 11/12/18*
> + [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326785.html) - **Ryan** *16:05:20 1/10/19*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326758.html) - **Vincent** *07:25:29 12/18/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326695.html) - **nuttidave** *14:16:27 11/23/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326672.html) - **Oren** *21:39:29 11/20/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326659.html) - **Yomaku** *07:56:22 11/15/18*
> - [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326661.html) - **MattT** *03:06:54 11/16/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326653.html) - **PhilipZ** *17:05:26 11/14/18*
> - [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326660.html) - **MattT** *03:06:48 11/16/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326649.html) - **Mike** *09:38:02 11/12/18*
> - [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326650.html) - **MattT** *02:58:15 11/14/18*+ [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326647.html) - **Hairball** *05:11:18 11/12/18*
> - [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326651.html) - **MattT** *02:58:21 11/14/18*
> * [Re: 3 Yrs](messages/326652.html) - **Hairball** *16:37:27 11/14/18** [7 Years and 4 Months [PIC]](messages/326639.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:39:53 11/09/18*
> + [Re: 7 Years and 4 Months [PIC]](messages/326835.html) - **Jin** *03:08:29 2/07/19*+ [Re: 7 Years and 4 Months](messages/326648.html) - **Hairball** *05:20:19 11/12/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 4 Months](messages/326666.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:19:48 11/17/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 4 Months](messages/326644.html) - **Ted** *22:53:21 11/09/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 4 Months](messages/326665.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:05:05 11/17/18** [Deciding on a Length [PIC]](messages/326635.html) - **doninisrael** *02:41:26 11/09/18*
> + [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326722.html) - **Darrin** *03:08:16 12/04/18*+ [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326637.html) - **Raymond** *07:16:44 11/09/18*
> - [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326638.html) - **doninisrael** *08:21:56 11/09/18*
> * [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326640.html) - **doninisrael** *08:58:43 11/09/18*
> + [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326645.html) - **Raymond** *05:46:03 11/11/18*+ [Re: Deciding on a Length](messages/326636.html) - **Raymond** *06:55:35 11/09/18** [5 years [PIC]](messages/326626.html) - **Robert** *09:08:39 10/26/18*
> + [Re: 5 years](messages/326633.html) - **Raymond** *04:47:51 10/28/18*+ [Re: 5 years](messages/326630.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:58:53 10/27/18*+ [Re: 5 years](messages/326628.html) - **Ted** *21:35:13 10/26/18** [Hair getting pulled](messages/326622.html) - **Avi** *17:24:00 10/23/18*
> + [Re: Hair getting pulled](messages/326623.html) - **doninisrael** *22:22:13 10/23/18*
> - [Re: Hair getting pulled](messages/326624.html) - **Avi** *18:04:57 10/25/18** [1 Year Progress Update [PIC]](messages/326602.html) - **Ted** *13:49:08 10/16/18*
> + [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326677.html) - **nuttidave** *14:23:22 11/21/18*
> - [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326681.html) - **Ted** *05:59:27 11/22/18*+ [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326642.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:28:34 11/09/18*
> - [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326643.html) - **Ted** *22:48:18 11/09/18*+ [Re: 1 Year Progress Update [PIC]](messages/326609.html) - **A.D.** *18:56:06 10/18/18*
> - [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326612.html) - **Ted** *19:12:04 10/18/18*- [Re: 1 Year Progress Update [PIC]](messages/326610.html) - **A.D.** *18:59:39 10/18/18*
> * [Re: 1 Year Progress Update](messages/326613.html) - **Ted** *19:20:30 10/18/18*+ [Progress Indeed !!](messages/326606.html) - **White Tail** *11:32:11 10/17/18*
> - [Re: Progress Indeed !!](messages/326607.html) - **Ted** *18:58:27 10/17/18*+ [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front) [PIC]](messages/326603.html) - **Ted** *13:50:59 10/16/18*
> - [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front)](messages/326625.html) - **Hairball** *05:04:39 10/26/18*
> * [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front)](messages/326627.html) - **Ted** *21:31:38 10/26/18*
> + [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front)](messages/326629.html) - **Hairball** *06:07:28 10/27/18*
> - [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Front)](messages/326632.html) - **Ted** *18:12:13 10/27/18*- [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point) [PIC]](messages/326604.html) - **Ted** *13:54:20 10/16/18*
> * [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point)](messages/326615.html) - **Daniël** *23:01:39 10/20/18*
> + [Re: 1 Year Progress Update (Starting Point)](messages/326616.html) - **Ted** *16:54:27 10/21/18** [Fun long hair video](messages/326601.html) - **Marco** *12:54:41 10/16/18*
> + [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326641.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:10:36 11/09/18*+ [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326614.html) - **Daniël** *22:47:51 10/20/18*+ [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326611.html) - **A.D.** *19:06:24 10/18/18*+ [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326605.html) - **Jacob U** *15:57:22 10/16/18*
> - [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326608.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:53:30 10/18/18*
> * [Re: Fun long hair video](messages/326634.html) - **MG** *23:10:27 11/02/18** [Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326588.html) - **Daniël** *21:27:02 10/09/18*
> + [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326598.html) - **Yadgar** *05:55:46 10/11/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326599.html) - **Daniël** *01:45:04 10/14/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326597.html) - **Yomaku** *11:45:22 10/10/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326600.html) - **Daniël** *01:55:25 10/14/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326595.html) - **Hairball** *03:12:59 10/10/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326596.html) - **Daniël** *07:44:42 10/10/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]](messages/326593.html) - **Daniël** *21:41:35 10/09/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326619.html) - **Ted** *16:59:18 10/21/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]](messages/326592.html) - **Daniël** *21:38:45 10/09/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326621.html) - **Ted** *17:02:27 10/21/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]](messages/326591.html) - **Daniël** *21:37:42 10/09/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326617.html) - **Ted** *16:56:39 10/21/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]](messages/326590.html) - **Daniël** *21:33:44 10/09/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326618.html) - **Ted** *16:57:47 10/21/18*+ [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride [PIC]](messages/326589.html) - **Daniël** *21:30:55 10/09/18*
> - [Re: Longhairs at Pretoria Pride](messages/326620.html) - **Ted** *17:00:40 10/21/18** [Just turned 56 [PIC]](messages/326578.html) - **James** *08:01:34 10/06/18*
> + [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326594.html) - **Daniël** *21:46:13 10/09/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326585.html) - **MG** *23:13:56 10/06/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326584.html) - **Oren** *20:55:24 10/06/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326583.html) - **Raymond** *19:21:31 10/06/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326582.html) - **Ted** *13:12:47 10/06/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326581.html) - **Anthony** *12:11:50 10/06/18*
> - [Re: Just turned 56 [PIC]](messages/326586.html) - **James** *17:44:08 10/07/18*+ [Re: Just turned 56](messages/326580.html) - **DunderThome** *12:02:25 10/06/18** [At the Organ [PIC]](messages/326570.html) - **Anthony** *06:55:23 10/04/18*
> + [Re: At the Organ](messages/326720.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:28:24 12/03/18*+ [Re: At the Organ](messages/326678.html) - **nuttidave** *14:23:27 11/21/18*+ [Re: At the Organ](messages/326631.html) - **Lance** *11:47:06 10/27/18*+ [Re: At the Organ](messages/326579.html) - **James** *08:02:44 10/06/18*+ [Re: At the Organ](messages/326575.html) - **Ted** *18:23:31 10/04/18** [4 Month Update - Still coming along [PIC]](messages/326566.html) - **DunderThome** *03:00:52 10/03/18*
> + [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326569.html) - **Raymond** *06:30:41 10/04/18*
> - [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326572.html) - **DunderThome** *13:35:30 10/04/18*+ [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326568.html) - **Ted** *16:40:17 10/03/18*
> - [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326573.html) - **DunderThome** *13:47:18 10/04/18*
> * [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326574.html) - **Ted** *15:05:25 10/04/18*+ [Re: 4 Month Update - Still coming along](messages/326567.html) - **DunderThome** *08:34:25 10/03/18** [Do Women find long hair attractive?](messages/326563.html) - **Tommmm** *12:21:34 10/02/18*
> + [Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?](messages/326571.html) - **Gene W** *07:19:21 10/04/18*+ [Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?](messages/326565.html) - **Ted** *19:15:10 10/02/18*+ [Re: Do Women find long hair attractive?](messages/326564.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:36:06 10/02/18** [Coming to Florida + Israel](messages/326558.html) - **Raymond** *06:52:39 9/25/18*
> + [Re: Coming to Florida + Israel + Marana, Arizona](messages/326559.html) - **Raymond** *06:07:39 9/26/18*
> - [Re: Coming to Florida + Israel + Marana, Arizona](messages/326560.html) - **Ted** *13:33:42 9/26/18** [Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326537.html) - **Michael** *11:54:20 9/16/18*
> + [Re: Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326539.html) - **Ted** *21:47:10 9/16/18*
> - [Re: Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326553.html) - **Michael** *05:10:37 9/20/18*
> * [Re: Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326576.html) - **The Kid** *18:14:50 10/05/18*
> + [Re: Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326587.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:54:07 10/08/18** [Re: Conditioners vs hair management](messages/326554.html) - **Ted** *13:00:35 9/20/18** [Long hair goals.](messages/326526.html) - **Darrin** *12:07:40 9/13/18*
> + [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326562.html) - **Yadgar** *05:59:29 10/02/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals. [PIC]](messages/326542.html) - **doninisrael** *22:54:43 9/16/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326544.html) - **Darrin** *06:08:20 9/17/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals. [PIC]](messages/326538.html) - **A.D.** *19:25:30 9/16/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326548.html) - **RossRS** *03:10:05 9/18/18*
> * [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326551.html) - **A.D.** *19:40:46 9/18/18*- [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326543.html) - **Darrin** *06:03:04 9/17/18*
> * [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326546.html) - **A.D.** *21:52:17 9/17/18*- [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326540.html) - **Ted** *21:49:57 9/16/18*
> * [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326547.html) - **A.D.** *21:56:12 9/17/18*
> + [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326549.html) - **Ted** *16:37:51 9/18/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326550.html) - **A.D.** *19:38:28 9/18/18*
> * [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326552.html) - **Ted** *21:28:23 9/18/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326535.html) - **PhilipZ** *18:51:12 9/14/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326541.html) - **Ted** *21:53:23 9/16/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326533.html) - **Raymond** *19:12:50 9/13/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326534.html) - **Ted** *06:33:31 9/14/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326532.html) - **Todd** *17:54:32 9/13/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326531.html) - **Ted** *17:02:52 9/13/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326530.html) - **The Kid** *16:47:14 9/13/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326528.html) - **Yomaku** *14:27:45 9/13/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326529.html) - **El Nico** *14:32:49 9/13/18*+ [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326527.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:29:10 9/13/18*
> - [Re: Long hair goals.](messages/326577.html) - **Daniël** *20:24:59 10/05/18** [Dying hair to match beard [PIC]](messages/326508.html) - **The Kid** *15:00:02 9/09/18*
> + [Re: Dying hair to match beard](messages/326517.html) - **Raymond** *19:25:46 9/10/18*
> - [Re: Dying hair to match beard](messages/326519.html) - **The Kid** *16:13:05 9/11/18*+ [Re: Dying hair to match beard](messages/326510.html) - **Ted** *15:14:02 9/09/18*
> - [thanks [PIC]](messages/326513.html) - **The Kid** *16:07:16 9/09/18*
> * [Re: thanks](messages/326545.html) - **Ted** *18:57:35 9/17/18** [Re: thanks](messages/326514.html) - **Ted** *17:47:59 9/09/18** [Older Guys](messages/326505.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:28:52 9/09/18*
> + [Re: Older Guys](messages/326524.html) - **Markus** *14:26:36 9/12/18*+ [Re: Older Guys](messages/326522.html) - **BruceJ** *21:57:06 9/11/18*+ [Re: Older Guys](messages/326511.html) - **Ted** *15:21:50 9/09/18*+ ['da first baby boomer and his hair ! [PIC]](messages/326507.html) - **White Tail** *12:14:26 9/09/18*
> - [Re: 'da first baby boomer and his hair !](messages/326509.html) - **Ted** *15:07:24 9/09/18*
> * [Victory ! [PIC]](messages/326515.html) - **White Tail** *15:22:38 9/10/18*
> + [Re: Victory !](messages/326525.html) - **Markus** *14:32:17 9/12/18*+ [Re: Victory !](messages/326521.html) - **BruceJ** *21:51:12 9/11/18*
> - [Re: Victory !](messages/326523.html) - **White Tail** *11:44:48 9/12/18*+ [Re: Victory !](messages/326516.html) - **Ted** *18:30:14 9/10/18*+ [Re: Older Guys](messages/326506.html) - **Anthony** *09:42:29 9/09/18*
> - [Re: Older Guys](messages/326512.html) - **Ted** *15:26:51 9/09/18*
> * [Re: Older Guys](messages/326518.html) - **Anthony** *12:31:03 9/11/18*
> + [Re: Older Guys](messages/326520.html) - **Ted** *19:42:55 9/11/18** [oil and hair knots](messages/326500.html) - **The Kid** *13:51:27 9/05/18*
> + [Re: oil and hair knots](messages/326504.html) - **Darrin** *12:16:44 9/07/18*
> - [Re: oil and hair knots](messages/326561.html) - **Neal** *10:18:53 9/29/18** [Martial Arts](messages/326496.html) - **Avi** *21:14:55 9/04/18*
> + [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326499.html) - **Darrin** *07:26:21 9/05/18*
> - [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326501.html) - **Avi** *15:35:52 9/05/18*
> * [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326502.html) - **Darrin** *03:10:38 9/06/18*+ [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326498.html) - **Darrin** *07:26:20 9/05/18*+ [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326497.html) - **Daniël** *04:47:07 9/05/18*
> - [Re: Martial Arts](messages/326503.html) - **Avi** *19:13:14 9/06/18** [Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience? [PIC]](messages/326492.html) - **Daniël** *08:30:43 9/04/18*
> + [Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience?](messages/326536.html) - **PhilipZ** *19:46:18 9/14/18*+ [Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience?](messages/326493.html) - **Yomaku** *10:28:31 9/04/18*
> - [Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience?](messages/326494.html) - **Daniël** *11:49:11 9/04/18*
> * [Re: Sulphates, Parabens, Silicones - first hand experience?](messages/326495.html) - **Yomaku** *12:16:01 9/04/18** [Bleaching!](messages/326468.html) - **El Nico** *14:15:35 8/28/18*
> + [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326481.html) - **Ted** *15:25:13 8/31/18*
> - [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326483.html) - **El Nico** *02:23:57 9/01/18*+ [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326475.html) - **JustCarol** *10:20:20 8/30/18*
> - [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326476.html) - **El Nico** *13:08:42 8/30/18*+ [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326471.html) - **Cameron** *09:34:39 8/30/18*
> - [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326489.html) - **Raymond** *21:03:01 9/02/18*+ [Re: Bleaching!](messages/326469.html) - **Darrin** *06:58:40 8/29/18** [Website gaylonghair.com gone [PIC]](messages/326448.html) - **ManeBear** *04:46:05 8/26/18*
> + [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326470.html) - **JustCarol** *09:20:11 8/30/18*
> - [Jonathan Van Ness](messages/326490.html) - **ManeBear** *10:13:31 9/03/18*
> * [Re: Jonathan Van Ness [PIC]](messages/326491.html) - **ManeBear** *17:45:04 9/03/18*- [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326482.html) - **Ted** *15:35:08 8/31/18*- [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326478.html) - **Hairball** *17:51:48 8/30/18*
> * [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326484.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:32:38 9/01/18** [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326479.html) - **JustCarol** *19:25:46 8/30/18*
> + [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326486.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:55:18 9/01/18*+ [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326480.html) - **Hairball** *03:31:19 8/31/18*
> - [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326485.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:40:45 9/01/18*
> * [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326487.html) - **Hairball** *05:23:32 9/02/18*
> + [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326488.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:19:37 9/02/18*- [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326474.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:02:13 8/30/18*+ [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326457.html) - **Hairball** *11:04:05 8/26/18*
> - [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326464.html) - **BruceJ** *20:01:00 8/26/18*- [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326463.html) - **BruceJ** *20:00:43 8/26/18*- [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326461.html) - **Ted** *14:03:43 8/26/18*+ [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326455.html) - **Joe** *10:44:51 8/26/18*+ [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326450.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:01:57 8/26/18*+ [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone](messages/326449.html) - **Ted** *06:20:09 8/26/18*
> - [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone - Bill [PIC]](messages/326456.html) - **ManeBear** *10:44:56 8/26/18*
> * [Re: Website gaylonghair.com gone - Bill](messages/326462.html) - **Ted** *14:07:11 8/26/18** [Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?](messages/326442.html) - **Avi** *10:13:54 8/24/18*
> + [Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?](messages/326447.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:06:20 8/25/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?](messages/326459.html) - **Avi** *11:33:55 8/26/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?](messages/326446.html) - **Anthony** *11:18:33 8/25/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair and damaging it?](messages/326458.html) - **Avi** *11:33:07 8/26/18** [7 Years and 2 Months Video [PIC]](messages/326440.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:13:01 8/23/18*
> + [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326472.html) - **JustCarol** *09:56:31 8/30/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326557.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:52:03 9/24/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326460.html) - **Avi** *11:36:01 8/26/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326556.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:37:45 9/24/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326445.html) - **Ted** *07:20:30 8/25/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326451.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:48:27 8/26/18*
> * [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326467.html) - **Ted** *07:01:41 8/27/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326444.html) - **Darrin** *10:14:04 8/24/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326452.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:54:22 8/26/18*
> * [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326465.html) - **Darrin** *21:06:55 8/26/18*
> + [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video - self trim](messages/326555.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:29:43 9/24/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326473.html) - **JustCarol** *10:00:09 8/30/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video \*\*\*\*\* Warning\*\*\*\*\*\*](messages/326477.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:42:41 8/30/18*+ [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326441.html) - **Daniël** *09:18:26 8/24/18*
> - [Re: 7 Years and 2 Months Video](messages/326453.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:58:17 8/26/18** [Trim just to shorten](messages/326434.html) - **Darrin** *09:37:34 8/22/18*
> + [Re: Trim just to shorten](messages/326454.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:07:18 8/26/18*
> - [Re: Trim just to shorten](messages/326466.html) - **Darrin** *21:07:00 8/26/18*+ [Re: Trim just to shorten](messages/326438.html) - **Raymond** *19:28:06 8/22/18*
> - [Re: Trim just to shorten](messages/326443.html) - **Darrin** *10:13:59 8/24/18** [Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. [PIC]](messages/326424.html) - **Daniël** *11:11:24 8/19/18*
> + [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326431.html) - **Yomaku** *03:05:25 8/21/18*
> - [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326435.html) - **Daniël** *09:37:39 8/22/18*+ [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326427.html) - **Raymond** *19:35:49 8/19/18*
> - [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326430.html) - **Daniël** *18:19:02 8/20/18*- [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326428.html) - **Daniël** *18:18:52 8/20/18*+ [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326425.html) - **Hairball** *11:25:44 8/19/18*
> - [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël.](messages/326429.html) - **Daniël** *18:18:57 8/20/18*
> * [Re: Um. Hi. I'm Daniël. [PIC]](messages/326432.html) - **Hairball** *11:42:49 8/21/18*
> + [Right side up now ;) [PIC]](messages/326433.html) - **Hairball** *11:44:55 8/21/18** [Air dry routine](messages/326415.html) - **The Kid** *22:44:43 8/17/18*
> + [Brush it when dry too](messages/326416.html) - **The Kid** *07:21:03 8/18/18** [Tips for growing out?](messages/326412.html) - **Avi** *14:57:26 8/17/18*
> + [Re: Tips for growing out?](messages/326423.html) - **Gene W** *10:46:28 8/19/18*+ [regular conditioning](messages/326422.html) - **The Kid** *04:43:51 8/19/18*
> - [Re: regular conditioning](messages/326436.html) - **Daniël** *09:37:44 8/22/18*+ [how to know it's damaged](messages/326420.html) - **The Kid** *15:42:35 8/18/18*
> - [it breaks](messages/326421.html) - **The Kid** *16:11:22 8/18/18** [Afro pick and the white guy :)](messages/326406.html) - **The Kid** *17:15:59 8/16/18** [Beards](messages/326395.html) - **The Kid** *04:02:13 8/15/18*
> + [Re: Beards](messages/326403.html) - **Ted** *11:27:34 8/16/18*+ [Facial Hair](messages/326402.html) - **White Tail** *11:27:09 8/16/18*
> - [Re: Facial Hair](messages/326404.html) - **Ted** *11:30:13 8/16/18*
> * [Victory [PIC]](messages/326426.html) - **White Tail** *13:19:44 8/19/18*+ [Re: Beards](messages/326400.html) - **Cameron** *11:20:03 8/16/18*
> - [long hair feminine?](messages/326405.html) - **The Kid** *17:08:41 8/16/18** [Encampment](messages/326392.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:54:10 8/14/18*
> + [Re: Encampment](messages/326414.html) - **Ted** *20:27:37 8/17/18*
> - [Re: Encampment](messages/326418.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:11:25 8/18/18*
> * [Re: Encampment](messages/326437.html) - **Ted** *18:44:19 8/22/18*
> + [Re: Encampment](messages/326439.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:34:09 8/23/18*+ [Re: Encampment](messages/326393.html) - **Hairball** *16:56:59 8/14/18*
> - [Re: Encampment](messages/326396.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:51:03 8/15/18*- [Re: Encampment](messages/326394.html) - **Ted** *20:02:52 8/14/18*
> * [Re: Encampment](messages/326397.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:53:59 8/15/18*
> + [Re: Encampment](messages/326401.html) - **Ted** *11:25:07 8/16/18*
> - [Re: Encampment](messages/326407.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:45:37 8/17/18*
> * [Re: Encampment](messages/326417.html) - **Markus** *10:06:43 8/18/18*
> + [Re: Encampment](messages/326419.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:16:03 8/18/18** [Re: Encampment](messages/326408.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:48:26 8/17/18*
> + [Re: Encampment](messages/326411.html) - **Ted** *13:56:06 8/17/18*+ [Re: Encampment](messages/326399.html) - **Hairball** *17:32:57 8/15/18*
> - [Re: Encampment [PIC]](messages/326410.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:30:39 8/17/18*
> * [Re: Encampment](messages/326413.html) - **Ted** *20:19:35 8/17/18*- [Re: Encampment](messages/326409.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:03:56 8/17/18*+ [Re: Encampment](messages/326398.html) - **Ted** *17:16:37 8/15/18** [Benny + Volpe](messages/326390.html) - **Marco** *12:15:32 8/13/18*
> + [Re: Benny + Volpe](messages/326391.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:46:21 8/14/18** [Vic's vapor rub in the hair? [PIC]](messages/326374.html) - **The Kid** *08:24:41 8/07/18*
> + [Re: Vic's vapor rub in the hair?](messages/326379.html) - **Darrin** *08:04:26 8/08/18*
> - [Hair damage?](messages/326380.html) - **The Kid** *16:27:28 8/08/18*
> * [Re: Hair damage?](messages/326386.html) - **Darrin** *09:30:54 8/09/18** [Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326372.html) - **Todd** *17:28:35 8/06/18*
> + [Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326375.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:01:09 8/07/18*
> - [Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326381.html) - **Todd** *18:34:09 8/08/18*- [Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326376.html) - **Hairball** *15:18:50 8/07/18*
> * [Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326382.html) - **BruceJ** *18:42:03 8/08/18*
> + [Also...](messages/326383.html) - **BruceJ** *18:54:15 8/08/18*
> - [Re: Also...](messages/326388.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:29:46 8/12/18** [Re: Guy with Ponytail on Samsung Ads](messages/326378.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:33:43 8/07/18** [2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326365.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:47:03 8/01/18*
> + [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326387.html) - **Gene W** *09:21:26 8/10/18*
> - [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326389.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:37:33 8/12/18*+ [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326377.html) - **Hairball** *15:26:19 8/07/18*+ [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326373.html) - **Ted** *20:26:10 8/06/18*+ [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326369.html) - **Raymond** *13:38:40 8/01/18*
> - [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]](messages/326370.html) - **Patrick Brands** *14:07:53 8/01/18*+ [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]](messages/326367.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:54:04 8/01/18*
> - [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :)](messages/326384.html) - **BruceJ** *18:57:57 8/08/18*- [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]](messages/326368.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:56:33 8/01/18*+ [Re: 2nd journey down the long hair path :) [PIC]](messages/326366.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:52:40 8/01/18** [Tips for growing hair out?](messages/326363.html) - **TalkWithMyHair** *08:18:00 7/30/18*
> + [Re: Tips for growing hair out?](messages/326364.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:42:04 8/01/18** [Hair Grow Journey](messages/326358.html) - **MetaligerAlsHeavyMetalDrachenLord** *09:39:49 7/28/18*
> + [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326385.html) - **BruceJ** *19:07:57 8/08/18*+ [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326371.html) - **El Nico** *05:41:42 8/02/18*+ [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326361.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:38:55 7/29/18*+ [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326360.html) - **Raymond** *20:15:28 7/28/18*
> - [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326362.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:16:44 7/29/18*+ [Re: Hair Grow Journey](messages/326359.html) - **Ted** *10:36:05 7/28/18** [Another update, 40 months [PIC]](messages/326356.html) - **Jim** *18:33:00 7/27/18*
> + [Re: Another update, 40 months](messages/326357.html) - **Raymond** *23:54:22 7/27/18** [ManeBear, 58 yo, Hair + Beard Jan 2018 [PIC]](messages/326355.html) - **ManeBear** *18:32:55 7/27/18** [Dale Monzano](messages/326352.html) - **Marco** *09:34:14 7/25/18** [July Pic [PIC]](messages/326351.html) - **Bob J** *01:45:35 7/25/18*
> + [Re: July Pic](messages/326353.html) - **El Nico** *14:12:29 7/25/18*
> - [Re: July Pic](messages/326354.html) - **Bob J** *23:26:14 7/25/18** [Its been awhile..... [PIC]](messages/326345.html) - **James** *02:38:15 7/22/18*
> + [Re: Its been awhile.....](messages/326349.html) - **PhilipZ** *05:29:58 7/24/18*+ [Re: Its been awhile.....](messages/326347.html) - **The Kid** *03:09:02 7/24/18*+ [Re: Its been awhile.....](messages/326346.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:47:46 7/22/18** [Starting over again [PIC]](messages/326339.html) - **DunderThome** *16:12:49 7/19/18*
> + [Re: Starting over again](messages/326350.html) - **Ted** *15:59:06 7/24/18*+ [Re: Starting over again](messages/326340.html) - **Raymond** *18:28:25 7/19/18*
> - [Re: Starting over again](messages/326343.html) - **DunderThome** *17:37:21 7/20/18*- [Re: Starting over again](messages/326341.html) - **El Nico** *11:37:26 7/20/18*
> * [Re: Starting over again](messages/326344.html) - **DunderThome** *17:37:26 7/20/18** [sides growing out healthy](messages/326338.html) - **The Kid** *05:46:35 7/19/18** [hair growth rate and age](messages/326335.html) - **The Kid** *13:59:57 7/16/18** [Men with Very Long Hair in China](messages/326332.html) - **Jacob U** *20:37:58 7/14/18*
> + [Re: Men with Very Long Hair in China](messages/326334.html) - **The Kid** *02:50:10 7/16/18** [I finally felt it!!](messages/326330.html) - **The Kid** *08:05:56 7/14/18*
> + [Re: I finally felt it!!](messages/326333.html) - **LongestHairMan** *02:01:51 7/16/18*
> - [not even](messages/326336.html) - **The Kid** *09:44:17 7/17/18*+ [Re: I finally felt it!!](messages/326331.html) - **Raymond** *19:54:00 7/14/18** [Update [PIC]](messages/326328.html) - **Jim** *21:31:37 7/11/18*
> + [Re: Update](messages/326342.html) - **El Nico** *11:43:28 7/20/18*+ [Re: Update](messages/326329.html) - **sj** *13:56:24 7/12/18** [short hair moisturizing cream](messages/326326.html) - **The Kid** *07:34:09 7/11/18*
> + [maybe this [PIC]](messages/326327.html) - **The Kid** *16:13:10 7/11/18** [7 Years since my last proper hair cut [PIC]](messages/326323.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:09:05 7/10/18*
> + [oil on the ends may give you more length](messages/326325.html) - **The Kid ever** *04:39:40 7/11/18*
> - [Re: oil on the ends may give you more length](messages/326348.html) - **PhilipZ** *05:20:40 7/24/18*+ [Re: 7 Years since my last proper hair cut](messages/326324.html) - **Hairball** *03:30:05 7/11/18** [Traction Alopecia](messages/326322.html) - **The Kid** *11:14:59 7/10/18** [thin area is growing!! [PIC]](messages/326318.html) - **The Kid** *12:46:47 7/09/18*
> + [Re: thin area is growing!!](messages/326319.html) - **Raymond** *21:32:43 7/09/18*
> - [nutrition](messages/326320.html) - **The Kid** *03:30:01 7/10/18** [Minoxidil use](messages/326317.html) - **The Kid** *12:08:26 7/09/18** [Natural oil fix](messages/326312.html) - **The Kid** *02:06:48 7/07/18*
> + [Re: Natural oil fix](messages/326337.html) - **Zack** *01:51:53 7/18/18*+ [Castor + Peppermint oil mix](messages/326314.html) - **The Kid** *08:14:36 7/07/18*
> - [Re: Castor + Peppermint oil mix](messages/326316.html) - **The Kid** *01:54:21 7/09/18*+ [peppermint oil is potent](messages/326313.html) - **The Kid** *08:14:31 7/07/18** [Braiding tools](messages/326300.html) - **The Kid** *17:08:32 7/04/18*
> + [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326309.html) - **Gene W** *06:44:23 7/06/18*+ [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326304.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:24:42 7/05/18*
> - [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326305.html) - **The Kid** *10:32:55 7/05/18*
> * [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326307.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:13:22 7/05/18*
> + [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326308.html) - **The Kid** *15:43:59 7/05/18*+ [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326303.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:40:33 7/05/18*+ [Re: Braiding tools](messages/326301.html) - **BruceJ** *18:23:38 7/04/18*
> - [VERY cool!](messages/326306.html) - **The Kid** *10:42:41 7/05/18*
> * [Re: VERY cool!](messages/326315.html) - **BruceJ** *20:54:59 7/08/18*
> + [Looks good](messages/326321.html) - **The Kid** *04:44:35 7/10/18** [Don't cut the short hairs that don't grow in spots](messages/326296.html) - **The Kid** *06:51:58 7/03/18*
> + [Bald if you cut them-probably only couple years](messages/326297.html) - **The Kid** *07:26:42 7/03/18*
> - [hair growth cycle [PIC]](messages/326311.html) - **The Kid** *13:34:32 7/06/18** [Detangling boar's hair brush](messages/326294.html) - **The Kid** *08:54:08 7/02/18** [New hairline!](messages/326286.html) - **The Kid** *09:18:32 6/29/18*
> + [Re: New hairline!](messages/326295.html) - **Gene W** *20:25:31 7/02/18*
> - [Biotin is water soluble](messages/326299.html) - **The Kid** *07:11:54 7/04/18*+ [Re: New hairline!](messages/326290.html) - **Raymond** *22:13:16 6/29/18*
> - [Re: New hairline!](messages/326291.html) - **The Kid** *23:03:45 6/29/18** [Looking for a Chicago salon](messages/326283.html) - **Dan** *08:14:00 6/27/18*
> + [Re: Looking for a Chicago salon](messages/326293.html) - **The Kid** *19:24:48 7/01/18** [Arrrrrr! [PIC]](messages/326280.html) - **doninisrael** *11:50:12 6/25/18*
> + [Re: Arrrrrr!](messages/326302.html) - **BruceJ** *19:11:15 7/04/18*
> - [Re: Arrrrrr!](messages/326310.html) - **doninisrael** *07:00:20 7/06/18*+ [Re: Arrrrrr!](messages/326282.html) - **Raymond** *06:42:06 6/26/18*
> - [Re: Arrrrrr!](messages/326298.html) - **doninisrael** *00:20:03 7/04/18*+ [Re: Arrrrrr!](messages/326281.html) - **Anthony** *22:31:47 6/25/18** [Hooked Ponytail Cuff [PIC]](messages/326271.html) - **The Kid** *19:26:28 6/21/18*
> + [Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff](messages/326284.html) - **Gene W** *06:58:16 6/29/18*
> - [Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff](messages/326287.html) - **The Kid** *10:17:05 6/29/18*
> * [Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff](messages/326288.html) - **The Kid** *11:39:37 6/29/18*
> + [Re: Hooked Ponytail Cuff](messages/326292.html) - **Gene W** *08:17:42 6/30/18** [adding hair volume](messages/326270.html) - **The Kid** *09:49:20 6/21/18*
> + [Re: adding hair volume](messages/326285.html) - **Gene W** *07:18:26 6/29/18*
> - [Re: adding hair volume](messages/326289.html) - **The Kid** *12:09:58 6/29/18** [Measuring your terminal length](messages/326268.html) - **The Kid** *03:27:00 6/20/18** [Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326263.html) - **Ted** *09:55:04 6/19/18*
> + [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326266.html) - **Hairball** *19:21:44 6/19/18*
> - [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326272.html) - **Cameron** *17:09:09 6/22/18*
> * [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326274.html) - **Hairball** *04:38:01 6/23/18*
> + [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326275.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:13:45 6/23/18*
> - [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326276.html) - **Ted** *09:32:23 6/23/18*
> * [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326277.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:13:48 6/23/18*
> + [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326279.html) - **Cameron** *13:36:05 6/24/18*+ [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326278.html) - **Ted** *16:01:42 6/23/18** [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326273.html) - **Ted** *22:14:12 6/22/18*- [Re: Very thoughtful boy donates his hair](messages/326267.html) - **Ted** *22:03:24 6/19/18** [First time posting, long time to the board [PIC]](messages/326261.html) - **Jim** *02:19:54 6/19/18*
> + [Re: First time posting, long time to the board](messages/326269.html) - **sj** *17:55:43 6/20/18*+ [Re: First time posting, long time to the board](messages/326264.html) - **doninisrael** *13:14:47 6/19/18*+ [Re: First time posting, long time to the board](messages/326262.html) - **Raymond** *06:43:34 6/19/18** [Water wash](messages/326260.html) - **The Kid** *12:05:20 6/18/18** [Still Growing [PIC]](messages/326259.html) - **Bob J** *22:49:19 6/17/18*
> + [Re: Still Growing](messages/326265.html) - **doninisrael** *13:16:52 6/19/18** [Ponytail cuff](messages/326251.html) - **The Kid** *08:38:11 6/12/18*
> + [Re: Ponytail cuff](messages/326254.html) - **Gene W** *06:21:53 6/15/18*
> - [Hair Ringz [PIC]](messages/326255.html) - **The Kid** *07:23:10 6/15/18** [Awkward stage tip](messages/326248.html) - **The Kid** *15:31:21 6/11/18** [Boar's hair bristle brush](messages/326242.html) - **The Kid** *12:01:19 6/10/18*
> + [Nice n soft](messages/326256.html) - **The Kid** *16:11:40 6/15/18** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/326238.html) - **MarkS** *20:32:02 6/08/18*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/326241.html) - **Jason** *11:05:04 6/10/18*
> - [Re: Hair update](messages/326258.html) - **MarkS** *21:40:02 6/16/18*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/326240.html) - **MarkS** *20:26:01 6/09/18*
> - [Re: Hair update](messages/326257.html) - **MarkS** *21:28:26 6/16/18** [Airport security is fun](messages/326237.html) - **matt** *17:52:36 6/08/18*
> + [Re: Airport security is fun](messages/326244.html) - **Todd** *19:30:40 6/10/18*+ [Re: Airport security is fun](messages/326239.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:59:39 6/09/18** [Update PIC](messages/326233.html) - **Markus** *10:52:10 6/08/18*
> + [Surely you're not a Latvian named lvusis?](messages/326235.html) - **Yomaku** *11:20:33 6/08/18*+ [Re: Update PIC](messages/326234.html) - **Markus** *10:53:01 6/08/18** [Braid cut](messages/326221.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:23:30 6/06/18*
> + [Last Samurai movie](messages/326247.html) - **The Kid ever** *13:31:23 6/11/18*+ [Re: Braid cut](messages/326243.html) - **J.M.M.** *17:36:15 6/10/18*+ [Re: Braid cut](messages/326232.html) - **Markus** *10:46:59 6/08/18*+ [Re: Braid cut](messages/326224.html) - **Hairball** *18:12:09 6/06/18*+ [Re: Braid cut](messages/326223.html) - **Ted** *17:25:12 6/06/18** [5 months in..](messages/326217.html) - **El Nico** *13:51:38 6/05/18*
> + [hair pictodiary](messages/326249.html) - **The Kid** *03:18:11 6/12/18*+ [Re: 5 months in..](messages/326218.html) - **Ted** *18:05:38 6/05/18*
> - [Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]](messages/326219.html) - **El Nico** *07:44:26 6/06/18*
> * [headwrap](messages/326245.html) - **The Kid** *03:08:21 6/11/18*
> + [Re: headwrap](messages/326246.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:04:17 6/11/18*
> - [some pictures [PIC]](messages/326250.html) - **The Kid** *03:18:17 6/12/18*
> * [Re: some pictures](messages/326252.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:12:38 6/12/18** [Re: 5 months in..](messages/326230.html) - **Rabbit111** *17:45:37 6/07/18** [Re: 5 months in..](messages/326220.html) - **El Nico** *07:45:27 6/06/18*
> + [Re: 5 months in..](messages/326222.html) - **Ted** *17:18:24 6/06/18*
> - [Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]](messages/326225.html) - **El Nico** *01:39:28 6/07/18*
> * [Re: 5 months in.. [PIC]](messages/326226.html) - **El Nico** *01:40:30 6/07/18*
> + [Re: 5 months in..](messages/326227.html) - **Ted** *16:00:28 6/07/18*
> - [Dammit! Here's the pic! [PIC]](messages/326228.html) - **Ted** *16:04:17 6/07/18*
> * [Re: Dammit! Here's the pic! [PIC]](messages/326229.html) - **Ted** *16:08:07 6/07/18*
> + [Re: Dammit! Here's the pic!](messages/326231.html) - **El Nico** *04:24:42 6/08/18*
> - [Re: Dammit! Here's the pic!](messages/326236.html) - **Ted** *16:58:51 6/08/18** [DIY Argan oil leave in hair moisturizer](messages/326216.html) - **The Kid** *11:21:52 6/05/18** [Long time no see! [PIC]](messages/326206.html) - **Rabbit111** *14:06:08 6/01/18*
> + [Re: Long time no see!](messages/326214.html) - **Jason** *13:33:49 6/02/18*
> - [Re: Long time no see!](messages/326215.html) - **Rabbit111** *16:35:53 6/02/18*+ [Re: Long time no see!](messages/326211.html) - **Hairball** *03:19:57 6/02/18*
> - [Re: Long time no see!](messages/326213.html) - **Rabbit111** *13:32:12 6/02/18** [thyroid blood test results normal](messages/326204.html) - **The Kid** *09:09:06 6/01/18*
> + [Re: thyroid blood test results normal](messages/326205.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:57:01 6/01/18*
> - [Re: thyroid blood test results normal](messages/326207.html) - **The Kid** *21:00:46 6/01/18** [John Romero Hair [PIC]](messages/326200.html) - **Danky Kang** *17:05:06 5/31/18*
> + [Re: John Romero Hair](messages/326208.html) - **Ted** *21:03:12 6/01/18*+ [Re: John Romero Hair](messages/326202.html) - **Jacob U** *02:05:17 6/01/18** [Why did Metallica cut their hair, why?? [PIC]](messages/326199.html) - **The Kid** *17:10:10 5/30/18*
> + [Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why??](messages/326209.html) - **Ted** *21:12:25 6/01/18*
> - [Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why??](messages/326210.html) - **Hairball** *03:14:12 6/02/18*
> * [Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why??](messages/326212.html) - **Ted** *07:37:46 6/02/18*+ [Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why??](messages/326201.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:01:42 5/31/18*
> - [Re: Why did Metallica cut their hair, why??](messages/326203.html) - **The Kid** *07:14:18 6/01/18** [Natural hair drying routine](messages/326195.html) - **The Kid** *07:10:20 5/30/18*
> + [Plopping with a T-shirt](messages/326197.html) - **The Kid** *08:28:15 5/30/18** [School hair](messages/326191.html) - **Jake Attood** *13:42:25 5/29/18*
> + [Some people never REALLY mature!](messages/326198.html) - **The Kid** *09:41:49 5/30/18*+ [lift weights](messages/326196.html) - **The Kid** *07:14:18 5/30/18*+ [Re: School hair](messages/326194.html) - **Agoraphobia** *02:04:23 5/30/18*+ [Re: School hair](messages/326192.html) - **James** *16:33:26 5/29/18** [Hair bun](messages/326190.html) - **Corbin Schumm** *13:42:20 5/29/18*
> + [Re: Hair bun](messages/326193.html) - **elektros** *16:59:55 5/29/18** [Hair ties for guys [PIC]](messages/326189.html) - **The Kid** *09:14:56 5/29/18** [Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns](messages/326184.html) - **Bob J** *16:27:30 5/28/18*
> + [big hat](messages/326188.html) - **The Kid** *04:11:47 5/29/18*+ [Re: Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns](messages/326186.html) - **MG** *01:51:52 5/29/18*+ [Re: Long Hair and Scalp Sunburns](messages/326185.html) - **A.D.** *20:52:22 5/28/18** [castor oil](messages/326182.html) - **The Kid** *20:54:25 5/27/18** [hairdryers problematic](messages/326181.html) - **The Kid** *17:22:08 5/27/18*
> + [Re: hairdryers problematic](messages/326183.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:54:40 5/28/18*
> - [should've learned first time](messages/326187.html) - **The Kid** *03:07:01 5/29/18** [Hair care products for brother Raymond [PIC]](messages/326179.html) - **The Kid** *15:57:10 5/27/18*
> + [temperature bad](messages/326180.html) - **The Kid** *17:02:49 5/27/18** [when's it time for a clarifying shampoo](messages/326173.html) - **The Kid** *02:50:07 5/25/18** [Much less hair breakage](messages/326169.html) - **The Kid** *06:57:31 5/24/18*
> + [Re: Much less hair breakage](messages/326172.html) - **Raymond** *20:57:55 5/24/18*
> - [jojoba oil](messages/326176.html) - **The Kid** *08:39:46 5/25/18*- [water wash with conditioner](messages/326175.html) - **The Kid** *07:21:45 5/25/18*- [coconut oil](messages/326174.html) - **The Kid** *07:12:49 5/25/18** [Which Hair supplement is best?](messages/326167.html) - **The Kid** *12:45:14 5/23/18*
> + [Re: Which Hair supplement is best? [PIC]](messages/326168.html) - **Validus** *06:50:28 5/24/18** [9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair. [PIC]](messages/326162.html) - **Just Carol** *14:42:40 5/22/18*
> + [Re: 9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair.](messages/326178.html) - **Hairy Guy** *04:47:17 5/27/18*+ [Re: 9 yo Boy ''I've Pet That Dog'' on Twitter, Has Long Hair.](messages/326164.html) - **Ted** *17:20:09 5/22/18** [My thinning hair pic now [PIC]](messages/326148.html) - **The Kid** *18:10:06 5/21/18*
> + [Re: My thinning hair pic now](messages/326156.html) - **Just Carol** *12:00:38 5/22/18*
> - [Re: My thinning hair pic now](messages/326158.html) - **The Kid** *12:27:40 5/22/18*+ [cowlick spot before](messages/326149.html) - **The Kid** *03:59:32 5/22/18*
> - [18+ years](messages/326150.html) - **The Kid** *06:31:47 5/22/18** [Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326146.html) - **The Kid** *14:40:02 5/20/18*
> + [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326159.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:45:13 5/22/18*
> - [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326165.html) - **The Kid** *18:47:34 5/22/18*- [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326160.html) - **Just Carol** *13:52:14 5/22/18*+ [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326155.html) - **Just Carol** *11:42:28 5/22/18*
> - [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326157.html) - **The Kid** *12:17:54 5/22/18*
> * [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326161.html) - **Just Carol** *14:02:52 5/22/18*
> + [Re: Thyroid and hair loss](messages/326163.html) - **The Kid** *16:35:04 5/22/18*+ [Hair, skin, and nails](messages/326147.html) - **The Kid** *04:08:22 5/21/18** [Unclogging hair scalp pores](messages/326144.html) - **The Kid** *05:15:52 5/20/18*
> + [Re: Unclogging hair scalp pores](messages/326154.html) - **Just Carol** *11:29:06 5/22/18*+ [Re: Unclogging hair scalp pores](messages/326145.html) - **The Kid** *13:31:05 5/20/18** [May 2018 [PIC]](messages/326141.html) - **Bob J** *12:41:33 5/18/18*
> + [Re: May 2018](messages/326143.html) - **James** *10:27:13 5/19/18*
> - [Re: May 2018](messages/326171.html) - **Bob J** *20:19:19 5/24/18** [Two years ago, today... [PIC]](messages/326133.html) - **Validus** *12:44:48 5/17/18*
> + [Re: Two years ago, today...](messages/326153.html) - **Just Carol** *11:24:05 5/22/18*+ [Two years already....sigh](messages/326138.html) - **White Tail** *02:13:50 5/18/18*+ [Re: Two years ago, today...](messages/326137.html) - **Steve** *02:06:55 5/18/18*+ [Re: Two years ago, today...](messages/326136.html) - **Ted** *19:34:32 5/17/18*+ [My visit with Bill and Larry... [PIC]](messages/326135.html) - **Hairball** *17:42:05 5/17/18*+ [bandanas and doo rags](messages/326134.html) - **The Kid** *15:56:35 5/17/18** [Bill's hair wisdom](messages/326127.html) - **The Kid** *07:50:24 5/17/18*
> + [Re: Bill's hair wisdom](messages/326128.html) - **The Kid** *08:25:13 5/17/18** [Wiry grey hairs](messages/326124.html) - **The Kid** *16:40:34 5/16/18*
> + [Re: Wiry grey hairs](messages/326125.html) - **El Nico** *05:04:16 5/17/18*
> - [Re: Wiry grey hairs](messages/326126.html) - **The Kid** *07:42:26 5/17/18*
> * [Re: Wiry grey hairs](messages/326139.html) - **El Nico** *04:29:21 5/18/18** [Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326118.html) - **The Kid** *11:30:47 5/15/18*
> + [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326152.html) - **Just Carol** *11:20:25 5/22/18*+ [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326120.html) - **Validus** *06:34:51 5/16/18*
> - [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326122.html) - **The Kid** *07:57:14 5/16/18*- [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails [PIC]](messages/326121.html) - **The Kid** *07:46:54 5/16/18*
> * [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326140.html) - **El Nico** *05:46:18 5/18/18*
> + [the rock and rollers](messages/326177.html) - **The Kid** *05:23:03 5/26/18*+ [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326170.html) - **The Kid** *07:17:23 5/24/18** [Re: Damaged hair and ponytails](messages/326129.html) - **The Kid** *08:40:00 5/17/18*
> + [No more hair tangles](messages/326130.html) - **The Kid** *08:48:50 5/17/18** [Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326112.html) - **Raymond** *22:01:26 5/14/18*
> + [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326151.html) - **Just Carol** *11:10:33 5/22/18*+ [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326142.html) - **Steve** *06:08:01 5/19/18*+ [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326132.html) - **The Kid** *09:40:05 5/17/18*+ [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326131.html) - **The Kid** *09:40:00 5/17/18*+ [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326123.html) - **The Kid** *10:15:00 5/16/18*+ [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326117.html) - **Validus** *07:39:43 5/15/18** [Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326111.html) - **Raymond** *22:01:05 5/14/18*
> + [Re: Getting Hair to Grow Longer](messages/326119.html) - **El Nico** *13:30:12 5/15/18** [Shedding... untangling...](messages/326101.html) - **Steve** *05:41:53 5/12/18*
> + [Re: Shedding... untangling...](messages/326106.html) - **samsonite8881** *15:44:34 5/12/18*+ [Re: Shedding... untangling...](messages/326105.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:18:04 5/12/18*+ [Re: Shedding... untangling...](messages/326103.html) - **Hairball** *06:45:30 5/12/18** [Baldness](messages/326097.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:00:02 5/11/18*
> + [Re: Baldness](messages/326099.html) - **J.M.M.** *10:18:34 5/11/18*
> - [Re: Baldness](messages/326102.html) - **Hairball** *06:34:53 5/12/18*- [Re: Baldness](messages/326100.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:30:06 5/11/18** [Progress - About 7-8 months [PIC]](messages/326093.html) - **Validus** *08:27:28 5/10/18*
> + [Re: Progress - About 7-8 months](messages/326110.html) - **Bob J** *22:26:50 5/13/18*
> - [Thanks, Bob. (n/t)](messages/326116.html) - **Validus** *07:34:41 5/15/18*+ [Re: Progress - About 7-8 months](messages/326109.html) - **Ted** *16:40:16 5/13/18*
> - [Thanks, Ted... I'll be sticking around :) ! (n/t)](messages/326115.html) - **Validus** *07:34:07 5/15/18*+ [Re: Progress - About 7-8 months](messages/326107.html) - **Vincent** *23:26:25 5/12/18*
> - [Thank you, Vincent :) ! (n/t)](messages/326114.html) - **Validus** *07:33:15 5/15/18*+ [Re: Progress - About 7-8 months](messages/326104.html) - **Hairball** *06:51:29 5/12/18*
> - [Thanks, Mârk... good to be back :) ! (n/t)](messages/326113.html) - **Validus** *07:32:33 5/15/18*+ [deja vue](messages/326096.html) - **White Tail** *02:10:47 5/11/18*
> - [Thanks... Great to be back! (n/t)](messages/326098.html) - **Validus** *05:37:27 5/11/18*+ [Re: Progress - About 7-8 months](messages/326094.html) - **Jason** *08:50:16 5/10/18*
> - [Thanks, Jason! (n/t)](messages/326095.html) - **Validus** *11:36:09 5/10/18** [Coming to Texas](messages/326089.html) - **Raymond** *06:20:05 5/02/18*
> + [Re: Coming to Texas](messages/326090.html) - **Ted** *20:36:07 5/03/18*
> - [Re: Coming to Texas](messages/326092.html) - **Raymond** *01:33:49 5/10/18** [What my hair looked like before I cut [PIC]](messages/326085.html) - **Ted** *23:04:35 4/26/18*
> + [Re: What my hair looked like before I cut](messages/326087.html) - **Joe** *08:36:39 4/30/18*
> - [Re: What my hair looked like before I cut](messages/326088.html) - **Ted** *18:50:18 4/30/18** [On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326044.html) - **Ted** *19:35:40 4/17/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326108.html) - **Vincent** *23:32:07 5/12/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326166.html) - **Ted** *01:20:35 5/23/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326083.html) - **jojo** *20:45:51 4/26/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326084.html) - **Ted** *23:02:08 4/26/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326077.html) - **Just Carol** *18:57:21 4/23/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326082.html) - **Ted** *01:32:25 4/26/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326074.html) - **A.D.** *20:08:21 4/21/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326081.html) - **Ted** *01:12:07 4/26/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326068.html) - **Validus** *09:38:37 4/19/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326069.html) - **Ted** *12:58:03 4/19/18*
> * [Thanks! (N/T)](messages/326072.html) - **Validus** *06:13:58 4/20/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326064.html) - **Raymond** *07:15:17 4/19/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326067.html) - **Ted** *09:29:51 4/19/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326050.html) - **Lance** *23:05:36 4/17/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326058.html) - **Ted** *18:38:05 4/18/18*+ [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326045.html) - **Ted** *19:40:19 4/17/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326053.html) - **Hairball** *05:31:57 4/18/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326059.html) - **Ted** *18:47:49 4/18/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326070.html) - **Hairball** *15:51:16 4/19/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326073.html) - **Ted** *06:59:50 4/20/18*- [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326052.html) - **El Nico** *05:30:53 4/18/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress [PIC]](messages/326054.html) - **El Nico** *05:34:27 4/18/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326060.html) - **Ted** *18:56:45 4/18/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326061.html) - **El Nico** *02:30:33 4/19/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326062.html) - **Ted** *05:21:25 4/19/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326063.html) - **El Nico** *07:14:40 4/19/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326066.html) - **Ted** *09:26:40 4/19/18*- [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326051.html) - **Darrin** *05:23:43 4/18/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326057.html) - **Ted** *18:33:37 4/18/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326065.html) - **Ted** *08:28:48 4/19/18*- [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326048.html) - **DanielR** *21:54:56 4/17/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326056.html) - **Ted** *18:26:53 4/18/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326071.html) - **DanielR** *18:25:27 4/19/18*
> - [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326075.html) - **Ted** *22:01:48 4/22/18*
> * [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326076.html) - **DanielR** *14:57:52 4/23/18*
> + [Re: On My Way Back!-6 Months Progress](messages/326080.html) - **Ted** *10:35:29 4/24/18** [Update, Over 3 1/2 years? [PIC]](messages/326042.html) - **Joe** *14:00:03 4/16/18*
> + [Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years?](messages/326078.html) - **Just Carol** *19:15:47 4/23/18*+ [Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years?](messages/326055.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:24:37 4/18/18*+ [Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years?](messages/326049.html) - **DanielR** *22:00:11 4/17/18*+ [Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years?](messages/326046.html) - **Ted** *19:44:11 4/17/18*+ [Re: Update, Over 3 1/2 years?](messages/326043.html) - **Raymond** *07:01:56 4/17/18** [Long Haired News Reporter](messages/326020.html) - **Ted** *15:21:12 4/08/18*
> + [Re: Long Haired News Reporter](messages/326022.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:49:41 4/08/18*
> - [Re: Long Haired News Reporter](messages/326023.html) - **Ted** *17:32:15 4/08/18** [This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326016.html) - **LilyLoon** *19:46:55 4/07/18*
> + [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326021.html) - **Validus** *15:35:54 4/08/18*
> - [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326024.html) - **Ted** *17:33:40 4/08/18*
> * [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326025.html) - **Validus** *18:22:49 4/08/18*
> + [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326026.html) - **Ted** *18:36:03 4/08/18*
> - [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326029.html) - **El Nico** *05:05:38 4/09/18*- [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326027.html) - **Validus** *19:05:13 4/08/18*
> * [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326030.html) - **Jason** *13:17:17 4/09/18*
> + [Re: This is the best website ever to exist [PIC]](messages/326032.html) - **Validus** *08:20:00 4/10/18*
> - [Re: This is the best website ever to exist [PIC]](messages/326033.html) - **Jason** *11:19:27 4/10/18*
> * [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326034.html) - **Validus** *14:42:35 4/10/18** [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326028.html) - **Ted** *19:28:45 4/08/18*
> + [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326031.html) - **Validus** *07:43:21 4/10/18*
> - [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326035.html) - **Ted** *18:40:16 4/10/18*
> * [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326036.html) - **Validus** *06:10:14 4/11/18*+ [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326019.html) - **\_zak\_** *07:58:14 4/08/18*+ [Re: This is the best website ever to exist](messages/326018.html) - **yoshiki** *07:58:09 4/08/18** [Non-receding pic [PIC]](messages/326009.html) - **Moonwards** *17:18:23 4/05/18*
> + [Re: Non-receding pic](messages/326014.html) - **El Nico** *06:48:05 4/06/18*
> - [Re: Non-receding pic](messages/326039.html) - **Moonwards** *20:02:09 4/12/18** [Receding pic 2 [PIC]](messages/326008.html) - **Moonwards** *17:18:18 4/05/18** [Receding pic 1 [PIC]](messages/326007.html) - **Moonwards** *17:18:13 4/05/18*
> + [See message by Camacho](messages/326013.html) - **Moonwards** *03:12:44 4/06/18** [Receding hairline? [PIC]](messages/326006.html) - **Camacho** *17:18:08 4/05/18*
> + [Re: Receding hairline? [PIC]](messages/326041.html) - **Finasteride** *12:23:07 4/14/18*+ [Re: Receding hairline? [PIC]](messages/326040.html) - **Finasteride** *12:03:11 4/14/18** [New Growth [PIC]](messages/325986.html) - **nuttidave** *10:36:14 4/03/18*
> + [Re: New Growth](messages/326079.html) - **Just Carol** *19:23:19 4/23/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326047.html) - **Ted** *19:48:25 4/17/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326038.html) - **DanielR** *17:56:16 4/12/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326037.html) - **BruceJ** *18:53:10 4/11/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326017.html) - **MarkS** *21:24:15 4/07/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326012.html) - **Validus** *00:07:44 4/06/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326004.html) - **Anthony** *23:04:08 4/04/18*
> - [Re: New Growth](messages/326005.html) - **nuttidave** *05:16:59 4/05/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/326000.html) - **Vincent** *11:40:28 4/04/18*
> - [Re: New Growth](messages/326001.html) - **nuttidave** *12:57:44 4/04/18*
> * [Re: New Growth](messages/326015.html) - **Vincent** *10:58:08 4/06/18*+ [New/Old Growth](messages/325994.html) - **White Tail** *01:57:49 4/04/18*
> - [Re: New/Old Growth](messages/325995.html) - **nuttidave** *03:00:42 4/04/18*+ [Re: New Growth](messages/325987.html) - **Jason** *10:38:32 4/03/18*
> - [Re: New Growth](messages/325988.html) - **nuttidave** *12:20:34 4/03/18*
> * [Re: New Growth](messages/325989.html) - **Jason** *12:30:09 4/03/18*
> + [Re: New Growth](messages/325992.html) - **nuttidave** *15:51:26 4/03/18*
> - [Re: New Growth](messages/325998.html) - **Jason** *06:52:59 4/04/18*- [Re: New Growth](messages/325996.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:43:47 4/04/18*
> * [Re: New Growth](messages/325999.html) - **nuttidave** *09:00:21 4/04/18** [Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325976.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:40:28 4/01/18*
> + [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325977.html) - **Ted** *20:17:52 4/01/18*
> - [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325980.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:26:53 4/02/18*
> * [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325981.html) - **Ted** *18:51:07 4/02/18*- [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325978.html) - **Hairball** *03:18:05 4/02/18*
> * [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325982.html) - **Ted** *18:56:45 4/02/18*
> + [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325983.html) - **Hairball** *03:27:04 4/03/18*
> - [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325990.html) - **Ted** *13:10:48 4/03/18*
> * [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325993.html) - **Hairball** *17:22:39 4/03/18*
> + [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/326003.html) - **Ted** *22:45:32 4/04/18*+ [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325997.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:58:34 4/04/18*- [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325984.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:15:09 4/03/18*
> * [Re: Long Haired CEO / Owner](messages/325991.html) - **Ted** *13:12:11 4/03/18** [Happy Passover/Easter! [PIC]](messages/325974.html) - **doninisrael** *08:35:59 3/31/18*
> + [Pesach Sameach!](messages/325975.html) - **Yomaku** *09:19:48 3/31/18** [My long overdue return. Old member here. [PIC]](messages/325950.html) - **MarkS** *19:21:14 3/26/18*
> + [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325985.html) - **nuttidave** *10:36:09 4/03/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/326011.html) - **MarkS** *18:55:42 4/05/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325979.html) - **Hairball** *03:24:32 4/02/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/326010.html) - **MarkS** *18:48:05 4/05/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325969.html) - **BruceJ** *07:41:20 3/30/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325973.html) - **MarkS** *22:42:18 3/30/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here. [PIC]](messages/325967.html) - **White Mane** *18:07:08 3/29/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325968.html) - **White Mane** *18:10:04 3/29/18*
> * [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325971.html) - **MarkS** *12:57:56 3/30/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325966.html) - **Ted** *19:02:22 3/28/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325970.html) - **MarkS** *11:59:40 3/30/18*
> * [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325972.html) - **Ted** *18:24:52 3/30/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325962.html) - **Vincent** *11:06:17 3/28/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325964.html) - **MarkS** *13:56:34 3/28/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325959.html) - **Validus** *06:00:27 3/28/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325963.html) - **MarkS** *12:05:44 3/28/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325958.html) - **Raymond** *21:13:22 3/27/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325961.html) - **MarkS** *09:48:51 3/28/18*+ [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325952.html) - **Jason** *07:13:02 3/27/18*
> - [Re: My long overdue return. Old member here.](messages/325957.html) - **MarkS** *10:23:05 3/27/18*+ [Hi ''Old'' member](messages/325951.html) - **White Tail** *01:51:55 3/27/18*
> - [Re: Hi ''Old'' member](messages/325956.html) - **MarkS** *10:11:58 3/27/18** [3 months in](messages/325948.html) - **El Nico** *13:18:23 3/26/18** [Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325943.html) - **JSFrodo** *17:44:41 3/23/18*
> + [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325960.html) - **Validus** *06:28:21 3/28/18*+ [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325953.html) - **Jason** *07:14:40 3/27/18*
> - [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325955.html) - **JSFrodo** *08:49:54 3/27/18*+ [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325946.html) - **Avi** *18:16:43 3/24/18*
> - [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/325954.html) - **JSFrodo** *08:48:37 3/27/18*
> * [Re: Green Things and Salad Makings!!](messages/326086.html) - **Darrin** *15:32:23 4/29/18** [Trims for your ends](messages/325940.html) - **Keith** *19:02:20 3/21/18*
> + [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325944.html) - **A.D.** *19:06:55 3/23/18*
> - [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325945.html) - **Todd** *19:42:48 3/23/18*
> * [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325947.html) - **A.D.** *12:56:47 3/26/18*
> + [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325949.html) - **Todd** *18:17:32 3/26/18*
> - [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325965.html) - **Sebastien** *17:48:47 3/28/18*+ [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325942.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *21:35:07 3/22/18*+ [Re: Trims for your ends](messages/325941.html) - **Todd** *17:08:20 3/22/18** [Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325929.html) - **Native Carolinian** *03:08:20 3/15/18*
> + [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325939.html) - **Jogn** *03:03:17 3/20/18*+ [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325936.html) - **Cameron** *10:36:45 3/17/18*+ [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325934.html) - **Raymond** *20:19:04 3/16/18*
> - [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325938.html) - **Raymond** *18:31:17 3/18/18*+ [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325932.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:13:46 3/16/18*
> - [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325933.html) - **Anthony** *15:16:32 3/16/18*
> * [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325937.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:22:36 3/18/18*+ [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325931.html) - **Anthony** *03:50:27 3/16/18*+ [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325930.html) - **Anthony** *02:41:07 3/16/18*
> - [Re: Signing Off For the Most Part](messages/325935.html) - **Native Carolinian** *10:36:40 3/17/18** [How Long Is Long?](messages/325914.html) - **Bob J** *17:28:26 3/08/18*
> + [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325924.html) - **A.D.** *19:41:49 3/11/18*+ [Re: How Long Is Long? [PIC]](messages/325921.html) - **Ev** *06:01:44 3/11/18*
> - [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325923.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:05:19 3/11/18*
> * [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325925.html) - **Ted** *20:34:40 3/12/18*
> + [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325926.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:53:14 3/13/18*
> - [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325927.html) - **Ted** *20:36:22 3/13/18*+ [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325917.html) - **Raymond** *23:35:06 3/08/18*+ [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325915.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:15:10 3/08/18*
> - [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325920.html) - **Ev** *06:01:39 3/11/18*- [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325918.html) - **Anthony** *03:38:31 3/09/18*- [Re: How Long Is Long?](messages/325916.html) - **Bob J** *21:57:59 3/08/18** [March 2018 Update [PIC]](messages/325913.html) - **Bob J** *10:32:36 3/08/18** [Saying hello after many years! [PIC]](messages/325890.html) - **DJ** *16:03:36 2/27/18*
> + [Re: Saying hello after many years!](messages/325919.html) - **Tes** *19:00:14 3/10/18*+ [Re: Saying hello after many years!](messages/325909.html) - **Bob J** *05:23:57 3/04/18*+ [Hello after many years!](messages/325894.html) - **White Tail** *09:53:41 2/28/18** [Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]](messages/325868.html) - **Allie** *04:34:29 2/24/18*
> + [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]](messages/327059.html) - **Louis Smith** *18:08:01 6/10/19*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/326002.html) - **nuttidave** *13:02:19 4/04/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325912.html) - **John** *10:00:34 3/05/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325891.html) - **Long Hair Boy** *17:27:07 2/27/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325902.html) - **Allie** *17:03:30 2/28/18*
> * [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325906.html) - **Long Hair Boy** *02:59:24 3/02/18*
> + [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair. [PIC]](messages/325910.html) - **Allie** *15:03:22 3/04/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325911.html) - **Long Hair Boy** *20:03:41 3/04/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325879.html) - **A.D.** *20:20:45 2/26/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325897.html) - **Allie** *16:26:53 2/28/18*
> * [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325903.html) - **A.D.** *18:37:50 2/28/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325876.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:36:57 2/25/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325898.html) - **Allie** *16:26:58 2/28/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325875.html) - **MG** *23:59:28 2/24/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325899.html) - **Allie** *16:27:03 2/28/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325871.html) - **Todd** *16:17:49 2/24/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325900.html) - **Allie** *16:27:08 2/28/18*+ [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325869.html) - **Raymond** *06:16:40 2/24/18*
> - [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325901.html) - **Allie** *16:27:13 2/28/18*- [Re: Glad to see so many of you! My son also has long hair.](messages/325878.html) - **El Nico** *07:46:54 2/26/18** [You might remember me [PIC]](messages/325867.html) - **Jade** *04:34:24 2/24/18*
> + [Re: You might remember me](messages/325896.html) - **Steve** *16:26:47 2/28/18*+ [Re: You might remember me](messages/325885.html) - **Ted** *06:58:52 2/27/18*+ [Re: You might remember me](messages/325884.html) - **A.D.** *03:01:18 2/27/18*+ [Re: You might remember me](messages/325874.html) - **MG** *23:55:30 2/24/18*+ [Re: You might remember me](messages/325872.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:09:37 2/24/18** [Autistic boy with long hair](messages/325851.html) - **Anthony** *01:42:33 2/20/18*
> + [Re: Autistic boy with long hair](messages/325858.html) - **Jacob U** *17:27:43 2/20/18*
> - [Re: Autistic boy with long hair](messages/325863.html) - **Anthony** *22:51:43 2/20/18** [Ankle length video](messages/325846.html) - **Marco** *13:29:19 2/19/18*
> + [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325922.html) - **Darrin** *12:09:02 3/11/18*+ [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325880.html) - **A.D.** *20:24:59 2/26/18*+ [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325857.html) - **ricrac** *17:27:38 2/20/18*
> - [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325870.html) - **Todd** *16:16:09 2/24/18*
> * [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325873.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:15:00 2/24/18*
> + [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325877.html) - **Todd** *19:42:16 2/25/18*+ [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325847.html) - **El Nico** *14:36:17 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Ankle length video](messages/325848.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *21:16:08 2/19/18** [Just Checking In [PIC]](messages/325832.html) - **James** *22:57:39 2/18/18*
> + [Checking In](messages/325841.html) - **White Tail** *09:49:08 2/19/18*+ [Re: Just Checking In](messages/325836.html) - **Hairball** *05:09:54 2/19/18*+ [Re: Just Checking In](messages/325834.html) - **Anthony** *04:53:17 2/19/18** [Gender](messages/325829.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:59:53 2/18/18*
> + [Re: Gender](messages/325855.html) - **elektros** *16:58:28 2/20/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325838.html) - **Ted** *07:17:18 2/19/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325835.html) - **Hairball** *05:04:33 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325839.html) - **Ted** *07:20:15 2/19/18*
> * [Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted](messages/325854.html) - **Anthony** *08:49:03 2/20/18*
> + [Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted](messages/325862.html) - **Ted** *18:01:52 2/20/18*+ [Re: Gender =) Words of encouragement for Ted](messages/325860.html) - **Ted** *17:32:31 2/20/18** [Re: Gender](messages/325842.html) - **Hairball** *11:11:18 2/19/18*
> + [Re: Gender](messages/325849.html) - **Ted** *22:15:25 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325852.html) - **Hairball** *03:11:41 2/20/18*
> * [Re: Gender](messages/325853.html) - **Ted** *07:41:38 2/20/18*
> + [Re: Gender](messages/325859.html) - **Hairball** *17:32:26 2/20/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325861.html) - **Ted** *17:48:37 2/20/18*
> * [Re: Gender](messages/325865.html) - **Hairball** *12:52:11 2/21/18*
> + [Re: Gender](messages/325866.html) - **Ted** *17:56:59 2/21/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325845.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:14:07 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325856.html) - **elektros** *17:05:36 2/20/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325844.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:06:17 2/19/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325843.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:01:19 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325850.html) - **Ted** *22:19:03 2/19/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325833.html) - **Anthony** *04:49:37 2/19/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325840.html) - **Ted** *07:21:49 2/19/18*- [Re: Gender](messages/325837.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:51:38 2/19/18*+ [Re: Gender](messages/325830.html) - **Native Carolinian** *19:44:30 2/18/18*
> - [Re: Gender](messages/325831.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:11:34 2/18/18** [BOY VERY LONG HAIR](messages/325823.html) - **SAM** *17:02:53 2/13/18*
> + [Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR](messages/325881.html) - **A.D.** *20:26:21 2/26/18*+ [Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR](messages/325828.html) - **Gene W** *18:59:46 2/16/18*+ [Re: BOY VERY LONG HAIR](messages/325826.html) - **Marco** *16:17:32 2/15/18** [6 weeks in..](messages/325822.html) - **El Nico** *12:45:52 2/13/18*
> + [Re: 6 weeks in..](messages/325824.html) - **MG** *23:54:19 2/13/18*
> - [Re: 6 weeks in..](messages/325825.html) - **El Nico** *08:28:49 2/14/18** [I'm Back [PIC]](messages/325818.html) - **Robert Johnson** *21:49:08 2/12/18*
> + [Re: I'm Back](messages/325827.html) - **Bob Johnson** *16:08:10 2/16/18*+ [Welcome Back](messages/325821.html) - **White Tail** *11:29:06 2/13/18*+ [Re: I'm Back](messages/325820.html) - **Raymond** *06:16:39 2/13/18** [1790's [PIC]](messages/325813.html) - **Anthony** *09:13:05 2/06/18** [Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325776.html) - **Marco** *16:32:35 1/22/18*
> + [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325814.html) - **Native Carolinian** *18:16:02 2/07/18*
> - [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325815.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:48:36 2/07/18*
> * [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325816.html) - **Native Carolinian** *22:31:41 2/07/18*+ [Bryan Braman: Super Bowl 52 Champion](messages/325811.html) - **Jacob U** *04:07:05 2/05/18*
> - [Re: Bryan Braman: Super Bowl 52 Champion](messages/325812.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:48:48 2/05/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325808.html) - **Vincent** *01:28:50 2/02/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325797.html) - **BruceJ** *09:14:14 1/25/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325795.html) - **Paul** *08:44:07 1/25/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325792.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:55:05 1/23/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325780.html) - **El Nico** *05:33:37 1/23/18*+ [Re: Eagle's Bryan Braman](messages/325777.html) - **Hairball** *17:33:48 1/22/18** [Long Hairs United](messages/325748.html) - **Absalom** *20:16:57 1/20/18*
> + [Re: Long Hairs United](messages/325749.html) - **Mark** *03:29:53 1/21/18*
> - [Re: Long Hairs United](messages/325773.html) - **Absalom** *20:12:28 1/21/18*
> * [Re: Long Hairs United](messages/325774.html) - **Anthony** *23:07:10 1/21/18** [An Update of Sorts [PIC]](messages/325712.html) - **Jason** *14:24:14 1/19/18*
> + [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325864.html) - **Steve** *09:39:51 2/21/18*+ [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325768.html) - **Vincent** *08:44:08 1/21/18*
> - [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325779.html) - **Jason** *05:33:36 1/23/18*
> * [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325793.html) - **Vincent** *07:20:22 1/25/18*
> + [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325796.html) - **Jason** *08:51:16 1/25/18*
> - [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325804.html) - **Vincent** *11:14:09 1/31/18*
> * [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325805.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:01:54 1/31/18*
> + [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325806.html) - **Vincent** *10:16:02 2/01/18*
> - [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325807.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:07:54 2/01/18*
> * [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325809.html) - **Vincent** *01:33:10 2/02/18*
> + [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325810.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:58:31 2/02/18*+ [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325723.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:04:40 1/19/18*
> - [Re: An Update of Sorts](messages/325758.html) - **Jason** *05:23:36 1/21/18*- [my mirror](messages/325745.html) - **White Tail** *10:44:32 1/20/18*+ [Family Photo [PIC]](messages/325713.html) - **Jason** *14:25:22 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Family Photo](messages/325882.html) - **A.D.** *20:30:20 2/26/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325928.html) - **Jason** *17:11:47 3/14/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325769.html) - **Vincent** *08:46:50 1/21/18*- [Family](messages/325744.html) - **White Tail** *10:41:00 1/20/18*
> * [Re: Family](messages/325757.html) - **Jason** *05:21:53 1/21/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325739.html) - **DavidN** *06:53:54 1/20/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325756.html) - **Jason** *05:21:12 1/21/18*
> + [Re: Family Photo](messages/325759.html) - **DavidN** *07:28:41 1/21/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325733.html) - **El Nico** *00:46:36 1/20/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325755.html) - **Jason** *05:18:16 1/21/18*
> + [Re: Family Photo](messages/325771.html) - **El Nico** *14:00:36 1/21/18*
> - [tip to see new posts effectively](messages/325772.html) - **\_zak\_** *18:12:39 1/21/18*
> * [Re: tip to see new posts effectively](messages/325817.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:08:23 2/12/18** [Re: tip to see new posts effectively](messages/325775.html) - **El Nico** *04:40:50 1/22/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325726.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:39:43 1/19/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325754.html) - **Jason** *05:15:39 1/21/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325721.html) - **BruceJ** *20:36:36 1/19/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325753.html) - **Jason** *05:13:59 1/21/18*
> + [Re: Family Photo](messages/325770.html) - **BruceJ** *09:17:15 1/21/18*- [Re: Family Photo](messages/325715.html) - **Hairball** *17:31:40 1/19/18*
> * [Re: Family Photo](messages/325751.html) - **Jason** *05:09:35 1/21/18** [Re: Family Photo](messages/325734.html) - **Anthony** *01:09:22 1/20/18*
> + [Re: Family Photo](messages/325752.html) - **Jason** *05:12:01 1/21/18*+ [Re: Family Photo](messages/325737.html) - **Hairball** *05:53:26 1/20/18*
> - [Re: Family Photo](messages/325742.html) - **Anthony** *08:23:04 1/20/18** [Update january 2018 [PIC]](messages/325702.html) - **Vincent** *03:41:25 1/19/18*
> + [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325819.html) - **Robert Johnson** *21:49:13 2/12/18*+ [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325740.html) - **DavidN** *07:02:22 1/20/18*
> - [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325767.html) - **Vincent** *08:35:42 1/21/18*+ [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325724.html) - **BruceJ** *21:13:40 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325766.html) - **vincent** *08:33:36 1/21/18*+ [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325722.html) - **Ken in SF** *20:36:59 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325765.html) - **Vincent** *08:28:49 1/21/18*+ [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325714.html) - **Hairball** *16:14:24 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325764.html) - **Vincent** *08:27:51 1/21/18*+ [Great Update](messages/325707.html) - **White Tail** *09:45:46 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Great Update](messages/325763.html) - **Vincent** *08:16:57 1/21/18*+ [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325706.html) - **Paul** *05:47:28 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Update january 2018](messages/325762.html) - **Vincent** *08:14:41 1/21/18*+ [Length february 2016 [PIC]](messages/325705.html) - **Vincent** *04:01:37 1/19/18*+ [Me and my dog on vacation in Finland [PIC]](messages/325704.html) - **Vincent** *03:48:50 1/19/18*+ [Picture rotated january 2018 [PIC]](messages/325703.html) - **Vincent** *03:43:00 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325790.html) - **Walter** *10:07:53 1/23/18*
> * [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325791.html) - **Vincent** *11:30:34 1/23/18*- [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325789.html) - **Walter** *10:07:52 1/23/18*- [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325746.html) - **Absalom** *19:56:02 1/20/18*
> * [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325760.html) - **Vincent** *08:04:56 1/21/18*- [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325708.html) - **Jason** *13:22:47 1/19/18*
> * [Re: Picture rotated january 2018](messages/325761.html) - **Vincent** *08:13:05 1/21/18** [Inversion method](messages/325690.html) - **El Nico** *10:43:23 1/18/18*
> + [Re: Inversion method](messages/325801.html) - **Gene W** *11:27:21 1/30/18*
> - [Re: Inversion method](messages/325802.html) - **El Nico** *12:45:10 1/30/18*+ [Never eat spinach after noon...](messages/325725.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:39:38 1/19/18*
> - [Re: Never eat spinach after noon...](messages/325743.html) - **El Nico** *10:39:33 1/20/18*+ [Re: Inversion method](messages/325691.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:08:34 1/18/18*
> - [Re: Inversion method](messages/325798.html) - **El Nico** *00:47:38 1/27/18*
> * [Re: Inversion method](messages/325799.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:32:26 1/27/18*
> + [Re: Inversion method](messages/325800.html) - **El Nico** *13:15:44 1/27/18*- [Re: Inversion method](messages/325692.html) - **El Nico** *01:31:15 1/19/18** [Present and accounted for :) ... [PIC]](messages/325687.html) - **yoshiki** *03:08:18 1/18/18*
> + [Re: Present and accounted for :) ...](messages/325747.html) - **A** *20:00:35 1/20/18*+ [Re: Present and accounted for :) ...](messages/325727.html) - **BruceJ** *22:54:21 1/19/18*+ [Re: Present and accounted for :) ...](messages/325709.html) - **Jason** *13:24:35 1/19/18*+ [Re: Present and accounted for :) ...](messages/325689.html) - **White Tail** *09:19:40 1/18/18*+ [Re: Present and accounted for :) ...](messages/325688.html) - **Hairball** *03:16:42 1/18/18** [Sleeping with long hair](messages/325668.html) - **Neal** *22:10:13 1/15/18*
> + [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325883.html) - **A.D.** *20:34:25 2/26/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325735.html) - **Neal** *04:43:12 1/20/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325736.html) - **BruceJ** *05:44:00 1/20/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325728.html) - **BruceJ** *22:58:46 1/19/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325720.html) - **Ken in SF** *20:10:21 1/19/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325719.html) - **Trolleypup** *20:10:04 1/19/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325677.html) - **Vincent** *14:07:51 1/17/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325675.html) - **JustCarol** *20:17:45 1/16/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325685.html) - **Ted** *18:13:55 1/17/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325673.html) - **Native Carolinian** *06:16:42 1/16/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325672.html) - **Hairball** *03:13:12 1/16/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325671.html) - **Raymond** *03:03:09 1/16/18*+ [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325669.html) - **Anthony** *22:58:54 1/15/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325676.html) - **El Nico** *13:58:32 1/17/18*
> * [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325678.html) - **El Nico** *14:26:10 1/17/18*
> + [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325679.html) - **El Nico** *14:28:13 1/17/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325680.html) - **El Nico** *14:30:07 1/17/18*
> * [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325681.html) - **El Nico** *14:32:18 1/17/18*
> + [Re: Sleeping with long hair [PIC]](messages/325682.html) - **El Nico** *14:46:09 1/17/18*
> - [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325683.html) - **Jason** *15:07:11 1/17/18*
> * [Re: Sleeping with long hair](messages/325684.html) - **ElNico** *15:25:22 1/17/18** [Novalis [PIC]](messages/325661.html) - **Anthony** *03:52:49 1/15/18*
> + [Re: Novalis](messages/325666.html) - **Hairball** *17:51:00 1/15/18*
> - [Re: Novalis](messages/325670.html) - **Anthony** *23:07:21 1/15/18** [Growing from a bowlcut](messages/325643.html) - **Mic** *08:10:44 1/14/18*
> + [Re: Growing from a bowlcut](messages/325667.html) - **Todd** *18:28:19 1/15/18*
> - [Re: Growing from a bowlcut](messages/325718.html) - **Ken in SF** *20:04:11 1/19/18*+ [Re: Growing from a bowlcut](messages/325658.html) - **Vincent** *02:52:38 1/15/18*+ [Re: Growing from a bowlcut](messages/325647.html) - **El Nico** *14:04:24 1/14/18** [Hair system?](messages/325633.html) - **Sam** *04:30:42 1/13/18** [It's been a while, but I belong in here again [PIC]](messages/325627.html) - **Walter** *16:29:38 1/12/18*
> + [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325729.html) - **BruceJ** *23:01:55 1/19/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325788.html) - **Walter** *10:05:07 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325717.html) - **Ken in SF** *19:57:55 1/19/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325787.html) - **Walter** *10:04:02 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325660.html) - **longhairedone Steve** *03:12:21 1/15/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325786.html) - **Walter** *10:00:31 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325657.html) - **Vincent** *02:42:49 1/15/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325785.html) - **Walter** *09:56:01 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325649.html) - **JustCarol** *19:07:37 1/14/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325784.html) - **Walter** *09:54:36 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325645.html) - **Oren** *08:33:58 1/14/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325783.html) - **Walter** *09:52:38 1/23/18*+ [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325636.html) - **Hairball** *04:52:59 1/13/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, but I belong in here again](messages/325782.html) - **Walter** *09:50:56 1/23/18*+ [It's been a while, indeed](messages/325629.html) - **White Tail** *22:53:38 1/12/18*
> - [Re: It's been a while, indeed](messages/325781.html) - **Walter** *09:43:15 1/23/18** [It's been a long time!](messages/325622.html) - **Ken in SF** *09:14:34 1/12/18*
> + [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325803.html) - **Ted** *17:33:59 1/30/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325730.html) - **BruceJ** *23:12:46 1/19/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325738.html) - **Hairball** *06:12:43 1/20/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325741.html) - **BruceJ** *07:41:58 1/20/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325711.html) - **Jason** *14:12:27 1/19/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325716.html) - **Ken In SF** *19:48:12 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325648.html) - **JustCarol** *19:04:03 1/14/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325701.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:10:03 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325646.html) - **Oren** *08:37:23 1/14/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325700.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:58 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325642.html) - **MG** *23:14:29 1/13/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325699.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:52 1/19/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325710.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:52:10 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325639.html) - **DavidN** *13:12:04 1/13/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325698.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:47 1/19/18*- [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325651.html) - **JustCarol** *19:45:52 1/14/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325664.html) - **DavidN** *12:04:17 1/15/18*
> + [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325674.html) - **JustCarol** *20:11:18 1/16/18*- ['ol home week](messages/325644.html) - **White Tail** *08:14:23 1/14/18*
> * [Re: 'ol home week](messages/325665.html) - **DavidN** *12:06:49 1/15/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325634.html) - **Hairball** *04:41:49 1/13/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325697.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:42 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325632.html) - **MG** *00:09:48 1/13/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325696.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:36 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325626.html) - **Anthony** *12:42:49 1/12/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325695.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:31 1/19/18*+ [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325625.html) - **Vincent** *11:55:04 1/12/18*
> - [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325694.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:25 1/19/18*- [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325640.html) - **DavidN** *13:14:36 1/13/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325655.html) - **Vincent** *02:34:49 1/15/18*- [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325637.html) - **Ted** *06:44:43 1/13/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325654.html) - **Vincent** *02:33:05 1/15/18*
> + [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325662.html) - **Ted** *07:12:23 1/15/18*- [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325635.html) - **Hairball** *04:46:33 1/13/18*
> * [Re: It's been a long time!](messages/325653.html) - **Vincent** *02:30:38 1/15/18*- [you too...](messages/325630.html) - **White Tail** *22:56:21 1/12/18*
> * [Re: you too...](messages/325652.html) - **Vincent** *02:26:58 1/15/18*+ [.....Much too long](messages/325624.html) - **White Tail** *09:21:16 1/12/18*
> - [Re: .....Much too long](messages/325693.html) - **Ken in SF** *03:09:19 1/19/18** [Hello](messages/325621.html) - **Paul** *06:41:05 1/12/18*
> + [Re: Hello](messages/325731.html) - **BruceJ** *23:15:50 1/19/18*+ [Re: Hello](messages/325656.html) - **Vincent** *02:39:39 1/15/18*+ [Re: Hello](messages/325631.html) - **MG** *00:05:38 1/13/18*+ [Re: Hello](messages/325628.html) - **Hairball** *18:33:28 1/12/18*+ [Welcome](messages/325623.html) - **White Tail** *09:17:39 1/12/18** [Periodic Update [PIC]](messages/325607.html) - **doninisrael** *09:07:43 1/10/18*
> + [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325732.html) - **BruceJ** *23:29:19 1/19/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325659.html) - **Vincent** *02:58:43 1/15/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325650.html) - **JustCarol** *19:41:10 1/14/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325638.html) - **Ted** *06:49:59 1/13/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325615.html) - **Anthony** *01:11:44 1/11/18*
> - [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325617.html) - **doninisrael** *03:44:33 1/11/18*
> * [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325618.html) - **Anthony** *06:14:42 1/11/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325611.html) - **Raymond** *19:58:11 1/10/18*
> - [Re: MLHH Clergy Sailing Together!](messages/325663.html) - **doninisrael** *08:24:19 1/15/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325610.html) - **Hairball** *18:24:34 1/10/18*+ [Re: Periodic Update](messages/325609.html) - **Yomaku** *10:33:03 1/10/18*
> - [Re: Ashqelon](messages/325613.html) - **doninisrael** *22:25:02 1/10/18*
> * [Re: Ashqelon](messages/325614.html) - **Yomaku** *23:42:17 1/10/18*
> + [Re: Ashqelon](messages/325616.html) - **doninisrael** *03:41:30 1/11/18*+ [Incredible Update !!](messages/325608.html) - **White Tail** *09:19:06 1/10/18*
> - [Okay, Twist My Arm! [PIC]](messages/325612.html) - **doninisrael** *22:17:48 1/10/18** [Interested in growing my hair](messages/325584.html) - **Avi** *05:29:45 1/06/18*
> + [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325599.html) - **Ted** *21:27:00 1/07/18*
> - [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325602.html) - **Avi** *03:08:34 1/08/18*
> * [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325603.html) - **Ted** *07:02:40 1/08/18*+ [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325595.html) - **Hairball** *11:33:06 1/07/18*
> - [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325601.html) - **Avi** *03:08:28 1/08/18*+ [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325586.html) - **Raymond** *07:05:41 1/06/18*
> - [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325592.html) - **Anthony** *09:41:09 1/07/18*- [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325588.html) - **Avi** *13:26:34 1/06/18*
> * [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325605.html) - **Raymond** *06:29:24 1/10/18** [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325604.html) - **Raymond** *07:14:06 1/09/18** [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325600.html) - **Raymond** *01:32:09 1/08/18*
> + [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325686.html) - **Avi** *23:58:51 1/17/18*+ [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325585.html) - **Jason** *06:22:04 1/06/18*
> - [Re: Interested in growing my hair](messages/325589.html) - **Avi** *13:26:39 1/06/18** [Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325558.html) - **Wade Garret** *14:53:54 12/25/17*
> + [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325559.html) - **Anthony** *02:31:50 12/26/17*
> - [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325560.html) - **Native Carolinian** *03:09:13 12/27/17*
> * [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325561.html) - **Anthony** *03:32:06 12/27/17*
> + [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325562.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:02:14 12/27/17*
> - [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325563.html) - **Anthony** *07:45:45 12/27/17*
> * [Re: Some Spiritual and Energetic Difference in being a Longhair.](messages/325572.html) - **Native Carolinian** *14:42:24 1/02/18** [Happy December](messages/325548.html) - **Native Carolinian** *12:13:51 12/22/17*
> + [Re: Happy December](messages/325557.html) - **doninisrael** *02:47:46 12/25/17*
> - [Re: Happy December](messages/325573.html) - **Native Carolinian** *14:55:51 1/02/18*
> * [Re: Winter in the Holy Land](messages/325606.html) - **doninisrael** *08:15:48 1/10/18*+ [Re: Happy December](messages/325552.html) - **Ted** *20:24:31 12/22/17*+ [Re: Happy December](messages/325551.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:01:31 12/22/17** [Growing it Out](messages/325541.html) - **myelin** *10:48:37 12/18/17*
> + [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325545.html) - **Justin** *11:03:05 12/22/17*
> - [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325553.html) - **Ted** *20:29:47 12/22/17*
> * [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325571.html) - **El Nico** *10:46:48 12/31/17*
> + [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325574.html) - **Ted** *23:46:54 1/02/18*
> - [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325576.html) - **El Nico** *13:37:43 1/04/18*
> * [Re: Growing it Out [PIC]](messages/325577.html) - **Ted** *20:15:33 1/04/18*
> + [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325579.html) - **El Nico** *10:14:44 1/05/18*+ [After cut [PIC]](messages/325578.html) - **Ted** *20:17:06 1/04/18*
> - [Re: After cut](messages/325580.html) - **El Nico** *10:17:43 1/05/18*
> * [Re: After cut](messages/325581.html) - **Ted** *11:24:55 1/05/18*
> + [Re: After cut](messages/325582.html) - **El Nico** *15:38:43 1/05/18*
> - [Re: After cut](messages/325583.html) - **Ted** *16:43:01 1/05/18*
> * [Re: After cut](messages/325587.html) - **El Nico** *09:34:54 1/06/18*
> + [Re: After cut](messages/325591.html) - **Ted** *06:06:14 1/07/18*
> - [Re: After cut](messages/325594.html) - **El Nico** *11:11:36 1/07/18*
> * [Re: After cut](messages/325597.html) - **Ted** *14:14:30 1/07/18** [Re: After cut](messages/325596.html) - **El Nico** *13:08:20 1/07/18*- [Re: After cut](messages/325593.html) - **El Nico** *11:00:04 1/07/18*
> * [Re: After cut](messages/325598.html) - **Ted** *14:16:07 1/07/18** [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325555.html) - **Justin** *13:20:42 12/23/17*
> + [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325556.html) - **Ted** *21:23:56 12/23/17*+ [Re: Growing it Out](messages/325542.html) - **Ted** *17:19:54 12/18/17** [5 year anniversary [PIC]](messages/325531.html) - **A.D.** *18:46:59 12/10/17*
> + [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325794.html) - **dk** *08:44:02 1/25/18*+ [Re: 5 year anniversary [PIC]](messages/325537.html) - **A.D.** *10:27:40 12/12/17*
> - [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325750.html) - **Locopelo** *05:06:55 1/21/18*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325778.html) - **A.D.** *18:31:45 1/22/18*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325550.html) - **Duncan Roy** *18:34:43 12/22/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325569.html) - **A.D.** *17:59:32 12/27/17*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325546.html) - **Justin** *11:08:14 12/22/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325568.html) - **A.D.** *17:56:53 12/27/17*
> + [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325641.html) - **Justin** *22:59:07 1/13/18*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325544.html) - **Yadgar** *17:18:53 12/20/17*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325543.html) - **Yadgar** *08:44:17 12/20/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325567.html) - **A.D.** *17:53:20 12/27/17*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325540.html) - **Lance** *05:05:58 12/17/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325566.html) - **A.D.** *17:51:45 12/27/17*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325539.html) - **MG** *23:48:59 12/12/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325565.html) - **A.D.** *17:45:17 12/27/17*
> + [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325570.html) - **MG** *00:26:56 12/28/17*- [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325538.html) - **Ted** *16:35:50 12/12/17*
> * [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325564.html) - **A.D.** *17:37:22 12/27/17*
> + [Re: 5 year anniversary](messages/325575.html) - **Ted** *23:54:24 1/02/18*+ [Re: 5 year anniversary [PIC]](messages/325532.html) - **A.D.** *18:48:55 12/10/17** [Curly long hair?](messages/325519.html) - **Jacob** *11:05:56 12/08/17*
> + [Re: Curly long hair?](messages/325533.html) - **Lloyd Repton** *03:05:05 12/11/17*+ [Re: Curly long hair?](messages/325521.html) - **Jacob U** *14:46:53 12/08/17*
> - [Re: Curly long hair?](messages/325530.html) - **Jacob** *10:11:27 12/09/17*
> * [Re: Curly long hair?](messages/325620.html) - **as** *06:40:13 1/12/18** [hair update](messages/325518.html) - **Alexander** *09:34:25 12/08/17*
> + [Re: hair update](messages/325549.html) - **Justin** *13:26:37 12/22/17*+ [Re: hair update](messages/325520.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:39:51 12/08/17*
> - [Re: hair update](messages/325525.html) - **Mogh** *19:22:46 12/08/17*
> * [Re: hair update](messages/325526.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:08:29 12/08/17*
> + [Re: hair update](messages/325534.html) - **Hairball** *03:16:19 12/11/17*
> - [Re: hair update](messages/325535.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:07:09 12/11/17*
> * [Re: hair update](messages/325536.html) - **Hairball** *17:26:09 12/11/17*
> + [Re: hair update](messages/325547.html) - **Justin** *11:22:08 12/22/17*
> - [Re: hair update](messages/325554.html) - **Hairball** *06:05:35 12/23/17*+ [Re: hair update](messages/325529.html) - **Alexander** *23:43:49 12/08/17*- [Re: hair update](messages/325524.html) - **Todd** *18:18:12 12/08/17*- [Russian men with long hair](messages/325522.html) - **Jacob U** *14:54:39 12/08/17** [News article](messages/325512.html) - **Marco** *14:02:07 12/05/17*
> + [Re: News article](messages/325514.html) - **Ted** *21:50:06 12/06/17*
> - [Re: News article](messages/325516.html) - **elektros** *15:25:37 12/07/17** [Hair Progress [PIC]](messages/325509.html) - **Lance** *03:03:41 12/05/17*
> + [Re: Hair Progress](messages/325510.html) - **Anthony** *03:39:36 12/05/17*
> - [Re: Hair Progress [PIC]](messages/325513.html) - **Lance** *16:45:40 12/05/17*
> * [Re: Hair Progress [PIC]](messages/325590.html) - **James** *23:04:26 1/06/18** [2018 Hairforce Kalender](messages/325502.html) - **Marco** *13:04:56 12/02/17*
> + [Re: 2018 Hairforce Kalender](messages/325505.html) - **MG** *09:25:31 12/03/17** [Fantasy](messages/325497.html) - **leggawt** *16:34:52 12/01/17*
> + [Re: Fantasy](messages/325504.html) - **Markus** *05:36:08 12/03/17*+ [Re: Fantasy](messages/325503.html) - **Jacob** *13:50:19 12/02/17*
> - [Re: Fantasy](messages/325507.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:22:56 12/03/17*
> * [I hate Tangled for a personal yet ironic reason.](messages/325508.html) - **Jacob** *19:13:15 12/04/17*
> + [Re: I hate Tangled for a personal yet ironic reason.](messages/325511.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:57:29 12/05/17*+ [Re: Fantasy](messages/325499.html) - **Yadgar** *09:02:10 12/02/17*
> - [Re: Fantasy](messages/325506.html) - **Pete** *09:25:36 12/03/17** [Hi, everybody!](messages/325494.html) - **Pete** *05:54:37 12/01/17*
> + [sorry, bad links, photos!](messages/325495.html) - **Pete** *05:56:25 12/01/17*
> - [Re: sorry, bad links, photos!](messages/325501.html) - **John** *10:43:01 12/02/17*- [Re: sorry, bad links, photos!](messages/325500.html) - **MG** *10:42:56 12/02/17*- [Re: sorry, bad links, photos!](messages/325498.html) - **longhair511** *16:34:57 12/01/17*- [Re: sorry, bad links, photos!](messages/325496.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:55:34 12/01/17** [Songs about hair](messages/325491.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:57:10 11/18/17*
> + [Re: Songs about hair](messages/325523.html) - **Jacob U** *15:10:47 12/08/17*
> - [Re: Songs about hair](messages/325528.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:20:43 12/08/17*- [Re: Songs about hair](messages/325527.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:16:46 12/08/17*+ [Re: Songs about hair](messages/325492.html) - **Hairball** *06:08:56 11/19/17*
> - [Re: Songs about hair](messages/325493.html) - **Hairball** *06:10:49 11/19/17** [A video game admiring long haired men?](messages/325475.html) - **Jacob** *12:31:30 11/02/17*
> + [Re: A video game admiring long haired men?](messages/325481.html) - **Joe** *21:29:36 11/03/17*+ [Re: A video game admiring long haired men?](messages/325477.html) - **Jacob** *17:03:28 11/02/17** [Deleted YouTube videos?](messages/325474.html) - **Jacob** *12:31:25 11/02/17*
> + [Re: Deleted YouTube videos?](messages/325484.html) - **Todd** *04:43:45 11/05/17*
> - [Alex Wooley?](messages/325486.html) - **Jacob** *17:18:47 11/06/17*
> * [Re: Alex Wooley?](messages/325488.html) - **Todd** *03:10:27 11/07/17** [Conversion to long hair [PIC]](messages/325473.html) - **Ripp** *12:31:19 11/02/17*
> + [Re: Conversion to long hair](messages/325489.html) - **Gene W** *06:44:45 11/14/17*+ [Re: Conversion to long hair](messages/325485.html) - **Neal** *13:30:04 11/06/17*+ [Re: Conversion to long hair](messages/325478.html) - **yoshiki** *20:02:42 11/02/17*+ [Re: Conversion to long hair](messages/325476.html) - **Anthony** *13:21:40 11/02/17** [Knotted Hair](messages/325468.html) - **Atticus** *17:30:43 10/30/17*
> + [Re: Knotted Hair](messages/325490.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:03:08 11/18/17** [Four Years [PIC]](messages/325463.html) - **Anthony** *02:48:26 10/27/17*
> + [Re: Four Years](messages/325515.html) - **Ted** *21:51:51 12/06/17*+ [Re: Four Years](messages/325471.html) - **doninisrael** *01:58:29 11/02/17*+ [Re: Four Years](messages/325469.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:05:12 10/31/17*
> - [Re: Four Years](messages/325470.html) - **Anthony** *06:21:10 11/01/17*+ [Re: Four Years](messages/325467.html) - **James** *07:30:20 10/28/17*+ [Re: Four Years](messages/325466.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:47:23 10/27/17*+ [Re: Four Years](messages/325464.html) - **Anthony** *02:54:00 10/27/17** [Well I finally cut my hair.](messages/325456.html) - **Kenneth** *03:13:17 10/24/17*
> + [Re: Well I finally cut my hair.](messages/325465.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:45:06 10/27/17*
> - [Re: Well I finally cut my hair.](messages/325479.html) - **Kenneth** *03:09:42 11/03/17*+ [Re: Well I finally cut my hair.](messages/325462.html) - **Anthony** *10:59:22 10/26/17** [76 Month Hair Update (video) [PIC]](messages/325454.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:31:51 10/22/17*
> + [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325472.html) - **steve** *10:38:41 11/02/17*+ [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325458.html) - **Yadgar** *05:58:42 10/25/17*
> - [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325460.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:55:41 10/25/17*+ [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325457.html) - **Hairball** *16:43:12 10/24/17*
> - [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325461.html) - **PhilipZ** *17:08:35 10/25/17*+ [Re: 76 Month Hair Update (video)](messages/325455.html) - **Absalom** *23:44:31 10/23/17*
> - [Thank you, Scott! (n/t)](messages/325459.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:49:12 10/25/17** [My Hair Growth](messages/325450.html) - **HandSizeLarge** *08:39:31 10/19/17** [update/thoughts [PIC]](messages/325446.html) - **Steve** *12:51:59 10/18/17*
> + [I don't get it either](messages/325453.html) - **Jarvis** *04:43:13 10/22/17*+ [one more time, hopefully right side up photo [PIC]](messages/325448.html) - **Steve** *12:57:15 10/18/17*
> - [Re: one more time, hopefully right side up photo](messages/325449.html) - **sj** *13:04:14 10/18/17*
> * [Re: one more time, hopefully right side up photo](messages/325451.html) - **Steve** *15:03:14 10/19/17** [Curly Long Hair](messages/325444.html) - **Atticus** *10:55:50 10/17/17*
> + [Re: Curly Long Hair](messages/325452.html) - **Guilherme S.** *21:23:24 10/19/17*+ [Re: Curly Long Hair](messages/325445.html) - **sj** *12:29:46 10/17/17** [Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325433.html) - **doninisrael** *22:55:34 10/08/17*
> + [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325487.html) - **Trolleypup** *20:01:03 11/06/17*+ [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325440.html) - **Gene W** *10:10:57 10/12/17*
> - [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325441.html) - **MG** *11:03:17 10/13/17*
> * [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325442.html) - **SomeRandomGuy** *09:11:27 10/16/17*
> + [moderating](messages/325443.html) - **White Tail** *09:13:43 10/16/17*+ [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325439.html) - **elektros** *21:47:57 10/10/17*+ [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair](messages/325436.html) - **Jason** *13:19:12 10/09/17*+ [Re: Women's Attitudes Towards Men with Long Hair [PIC]](messages/325434.html) - **Hairball** *06:15:52 10/09/17** [Las Vegas](messages/325420.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:33:45 10/02/17*
> + [Re: Las Vegas](messages/325421.html) - **Ted** *14:56:26 10/02/17*
> - [WHY ??](messages/325426.html) - **White Tail** *08:36:00 10/03/17*
> * [Re: WHY ??](messages/327261.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:22:53 11/07/19** [Re: WHY ??](messages/325428.html) - **Ted** *19:14:11 10/03/17*
> + [...delurking...](messages/325430.html) - **White Tail** *10:24:33 10/04/17*
> - [Re: ...delurking...](messages/325431.html) - **Ted** *15:52:20 10/04/17** [Re: WHY ??](messages/325427.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:05:59 10/03/17*
> + [Re: WHY ??](messages/325429.html) - **MG** *10:11:49 10/04/17*
> - [Re: WHY ??](messages/325435.html) - **Justin** *13:15:24 10/09/17*
> * [Re: WHY ??](messages/325437.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:19:40 10/10/17*
> + [Re: WHY ??](messages/325438.html) - **Justin** *11:29:48 10/10/17*
> - [Re: WHY ??](messages/325517.html) - **df** *09:34:00 12/08/17** [Hairy Boulder!](messages/325415.html) - **doninisrael** *09:33:55 9/29/17*
> + [Re: Hairy Boulder!](messages/325417.html) - **Raymond** *10:06:40 9/30/17*
> - [Re: Hillel and Shammai](messages/325418.html) - **doninisrael** *21:01:40 9/30/17*
> * [Re: Hillel and Shammai](messages/325419.html) - **Raymond** *06:00:32 10/01/17*
> + [Re: Hillel and Shammai](messages/325422.html) - **doninisrael** *18:12:14 10/02/17*
> - [Re: Hillel and Shammai](messages/325424.html) - **Raymond** *20:12:22 10/02/17*
> * [Re: Visit to Israel](messages/325425.html) - **doninisrael** *22:07:45 10/02/17*- [Re: Hillel and Shammai](messages/325423.html) - **Raymond** *20:04:45 10/02/17*+ [Re: Hairy Boulder!](messages/325416.html) - **Hairball** *06:18:37 9/30/17** [Bad Hair Day [PIC]](messages/325410.html) - **James** *14:24:11 9/26/17*
> + [Re: Bad Hair Day](messages/325413.html) - **doninisrael** *11:53:56 9/27/17*+ [Re: Bad Hair Day](messages/325412.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:39:59 9/27/17*+ [Re: Bad Hair Day](messages/325411.html) - **Anthony** *05:35:18 9/27/17** [Some great long hair](messages/325407.html) - **Marco** *07:51:24 9/24/17*
> + [Re: Some great long hair](messages/325414.html) - **J.M.M.** *12:27:25 9/28/17** [Update Photo [PIC]](messages/325403.html) - **doninisrael** *16:59:21 9/22/17*
> + [Re: Update Photo](messages/325409.html) - **James** *14:22:06 9/26/17*+ [Re: Update Photo](messages/325406.html) - **PhilipZ** *02:16:37 9/24/17*
> - [Re: Update Photo](messages/325408.html) - **doninisrael** *09:07:20 9/25/17*+ [Re: Update Photo](messages/325405.html) - **Absalom** *20:32:23 9/22/17*+ [Re: Update Photo](messages/325404.html) - **Raymond** *20:24:53 9/22/17** [Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]](messages/325377.html) - **Grant Sander** *03:10:04 9/13/17*
> + [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]](messages/325388.html) - **Guilherme S.** *04:47:34 9/17/17*
> - [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325390.html) - **Yadgar** *09:42:00 9/17/17*
> * [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325392.html) - **Guilherme S.** *03:15:29 9/18/17*
> + [Guilherme S., Atari ST 4-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325402.html) - **Yadgar** *14:10:22 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., Atari ST 4-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325401.html) - **Yadgar** *14:08:32 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., Atari ST 16-color mode, no dithering [PIC]](messages/325400.html) - **Yadgar** *14:06:28 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., Atari ST 16-color mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325399.html) - **Yadgar** *08:38:20 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., Atari ST monochrome mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325398.html) - **Yadgar** *08:23:54 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., Atari ST monochrome mode, no dithering [PIC]](messages/325397.html) - **Yadgar** *08:21:34 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., C 64 multicolor mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325396.html) - **Yadgar** *08:18:11 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., C 64 multicolor mode, no dithering [PIC]](messages/325395.html) - **Yadgar** *08:14:35 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., C 64 blocks mode, Floyd-Steinberg [PIC]](messages/325394.html) - **Yadgar** *08:08:03 9/18/17*+ [Guilherme S., C 64 blocks mode, no dithering [PIC]](messages/325393.html) - **Yadgar** *08:03:51 9/18/17*- [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325389.html) - **Ted** *07:22:51 9/17/17*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325383.html) - **Anthony** *12:11:44 9/14/17*
> - [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325386.html) - **BruceJ** *18:28:57 9/15/17*- [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325384.html) - **Raymond** *18:46:17 9/14/17*
> * [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325387.html) - **doninisrael** *03:17:19 9/16/17** [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325385.html) - **Anthony** *10:49:28 9/15/17*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website? [PIC]](messages/325382.html) - **Ted** *19:44:01 9/13/17*
> - [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325619.html) - **as** *06:39:27 1/12/18*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325381.html) - **Ted** *19:35:49 9/13/17*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325380.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:59:08 9/13/17*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325379.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:53:13 9/13/17*+ [Re: Can someone with curly hair post on this website?](messages/325378.html) - **Raymond** *06:36:58 9/13/17** [Hairline Receding? [PIC]](messages/325369.html) - **Joe** *13:37:02 9/08/17*
> + [Another Pic [PIC]](messages/325370.html) - **Joe** *13:38:18 9/08/17*
> - [Re: Another Pic](messages/325371.html) - **Native Carolinian** *15:54:24 9/08/17*
> * [Re: Another Pic](messages/325372.html) - **Joe** *08:54:44 9/09/17*
> + [Re: Another Pic](messages/325373.html) - **Native Carolinian** *13:14:53 9/09/17*
> - [Re: Another Pic](messages/325376.html) - **Joe** *12:53:44 9/11/17** [11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325354.html) - **JustCarol** *19:03:28 8/29/17*
> + [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325374.html) - **PhilipZ** *05:29:23 9/11/17*
> - [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325375.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:51:18 9/11/17*+ [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325356.html) - **Hairball** *03:11:11 8/30/17*
> - [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325357.html) - **Anthony** *03:36:02 8/30/17*
> * [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325358.html) - **Cameron** *17:53:56 8/30/17*
> + [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325361.html) - **elektros** *17:46:38 8/31/17*
> - [Re: 11 Most Bizarre (School) Dress Code Rules ( Mom.Me)](messages/325362.html) - **elektros** *17:51:00 8/31/17** [People of Wal Mart](messages/325353.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:30:57 8/29/17*
> + [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325360.html) - **Markus** *14:09:21 8/31/17*
> - [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325363.html) - **Ted** *07:06:46 9/01/17*
> * [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325364.html) - **JustCarol** *13:14:45 9/01/17*
> + [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325368.html) - **elektros** *11:43:36 9/07/17*+ [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325366.html) - **Ted** *05:58:41 9/02/17*+ [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325365.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:29:15 9/02/17*
> - [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325367.html) - **Ted** *06:00:09 9/02/17*+ [Re: People of Wal Mart](messages/325355.html) - **Ted** *20:34:53 8/29/17** [Does anyone know](messages/325350.html) - **Marco** *13:20:42 8/29/17*
> + [Re: Does anyone know](messages/325352.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:51:13 8/29/17** [Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules [PIC]](messages/325327.html) - **JustCarol** *11:01:29 8/24/17*
> + [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325337.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:02:06 8/25/17*+ [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325335.html) - **BruceJ** *21:11:18 8/24/17*
> - [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325336.html) - **Hairball** *03:24:37 8/25/17*+ [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325332.html) - **Todd** *18:17:43 8/24/17*
> - [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325340.html) - **JustCarol** *19:27:28 8/26/17*+ [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325331.html) - **Hairball** *17:46:44 8/24/17*
> - [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325339.html) - **Cameron** *12:24:48 8/26/17*
> * [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325343.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:43:51 8/27/17*
> + [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325344.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:48:52 8/27/17*
> - [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325349.html) - **Ted** *23:27:47 8/27/17*+ [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325329.html) - **Ted** *16:27:30 8/24/17*
> - [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325341.html) - **JustCarol** *19:36:29 8/26/17*
> * [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325347.html) - **Ted** *23:24:04 8/27/17** [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325346.html) - **elektros** *20:41:21 8/27/17*
> + [Re: Another New School Year, Another School With Hair Rules](messages/325348.html) - **Ted** *23:26:09 8/27/17** [Going bald? [PIC]](messages/325317.html) - **Joggle** *17:38:30 8/22/17*
> + [Re: Going bald?](messages/325325.html) - **Anthony** *23:20:29 8/23/17*+ [Re: Going bald?](messages/325319.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:09:40 8/23/17*+ [Re: Going bald?](messages/325318.html) - **Ted** *23:00:10 8/22/17*
> - [Re: Going bald? [PIC]](messages/325320.html) - **Joggle** *05:19:38 8/23/17*
> * [Re: Going bald?](messages/325342.html) - **Joggle** *21:21:19 8/26/17*
> + [Re: Going bald?](messages/325345.html) - **Ted** *17:52:25 8/27/17*
> - [Re: Going bald?](messages/325351.html) - **yoshiki** *13:55:42 8/29/17*
> * [Re: Going bald?](messages/325359.html) - **Ted** *18:48:53 8/30/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325334.html) - **Tes** *19:51:07 8/24/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325333.html) - **BruceJ** *19:10:59 8/24/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325324.html) - **MG** *17:22:42 8/23/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325323.html) - **doninisrael** *08:54:59 8/23/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325322.html) - **Ted** *07:13:16 8/23/17** [Re: Going bald?](messages/325321.html) - **Ted** *07:11:28 8/23/17** [74 Month Update [PIC]](messages/325314.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:06:50 8/21/17*
> + [Re: 74 Month Update](messages/325338.html) - **BruceJ** *07:17:23 8/25/17*+ [Re: 74 Month Update](messages/325326.html) - **Anthony** *02:27:50 8/24/17*+ [Re: 74 Month Update](messages/325316.html) - **Marco** *06:43:50 8/22/17*+ [Re: 74 Month Update](messages/325315.html) - **sj** *17:36:08 8/21/17** [37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day [PIC]](messages/325296.html) - **Joe** *14:09:02 8/16/17*
> + [Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day](messages/325308.html) - **A.D.** *20:57:48 8/20/17*+ [Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day](messages/325304.html) - **longhairedone Steve** *03:26:51 8/19/17*+ [Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day](messages/325301.html) - **Viking** *02:42:02 8/17/17*
> - [Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day](messages/325302.html) - **Joe** *19:31:07 8/17/17*
> * [Re: 37 Months In + A job Interview Next Day](messages/325303.html) - **Native Carolinian** *23:22:49 8/17/17** [Compliments](messages/325295.html) - **Viking** *10:59:08 8/16/17*
> + [Re: Compliments](messages/325307.html) - **A.D.** *20:56:32 8/20/17*+ [Re: Compliments](messages/325305.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:03:03 8/20/17*+ [Re: Compliments](messages/325298.html) - **elektros** *17:06:44 8/16/17*
> - [Re: Compliments](messages/325300.html) - **Viking** *02:40:36 8/17/17*+ [Re: Compliments](messages/325297.html) - **Joe** *14:12:32 8/16/17*
> - [Re: Compliments](messages/325299.html) - **Viking** *02:39:30 8/17/17** [Hair Update-Back [PIC]](messages/325270.html) - **Ted** *20:20:05 8/04/17*
> + [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325328.html) - **JustCarol** *11:07:12 8/24/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325330.html) - **Ted** *16:34:21 8/24/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325309.html) - **A.D.** *21:03:23 8/20/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325313.html) - **Ted** *07:06:06 8/21/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325291.html) - **BruceJ** *18:27:44 8/09/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325293.html) - **Ted** *16:02:13 8/11/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325290.html) - **Anthony** *02:49:22 8/09/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325292.html) - **Ted** *15:57:07 8/11/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325287.html) - **DavidN** *09:26:42 8/08/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325288.html) - **Ted** *21:46:12 8/08/17*+ [Update](messages/325285.html) - **White Tail** *05:45:14 8/07/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325286.html) - **Ted** *07:10:33 8/07/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325277.html) - **Raymond** *06:18:48 8/05/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back](messages/325279.html) - **Ted** *16:39:22 8/05/17*+ [Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr [PIC]](messages/325271.html) - **Ted** *20:21:31 8/04/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr](messages/325272.html) - **Hairball** *05:44:38 8/05/17*
> * [Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr](messages/325278.html) - **Ted** *16:31:37 8/05/17*
> + [Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr](messages/325283.html) - **Hairball** *05:29:47 8/06/17*
> - [Re: Hair Update-Back (this is the back!) Grr](messages/325284.html) - **Ted** *12:00:17 8/06/17** [Kelan Hughes](messages/325268.html) - **Marco** *08:49:05 8/04/17** [Hair update---38 and a half month journey. [PIC]](messages/325263.html) - **Patrick Brands** *14:21:44 8/01/17*
> + [Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey.](messages/325310.html) - **A.D.** *21:05:48 8/20/17*+ [Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey.](messages/325280.html) - **Ted** *16:44:50 8/05/17*+ [Re: Hair update---38 and a half month journey.](messages/325273.html) - **Hairball** *05:47:23 8/05/17*+ [My kids hair progress ;) [PIC]](messages/325265.html) - **Patrick Brands** *14:43:15 8/01/17*
> - [Re: My kids hair progress ;)](messages/325281.html) - **Ted** *16:49:49 8/05/17*- [Re: My kids hair progress ;)](messages/325266.html) - **Raymond** *06:07:11 8/02/17*+ [2nd pic [PIC]](messages/325264.html) - **Patrick Brands** *14:22:49 8/01/17*
> - [Re: 2nd pic](messages/325267.html) - **BruceJ** *18:09:21 8/02/17** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/325244.html) - **Anthony** *06:48:07 7/24/17*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/325432.html) - **nuttidave** *16:16:00 10/04/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325311.html) - **A.D.** *21:09:49 8/20/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325282.html) - **Ted** *16:55:12 8/05/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325274.html) - **Hairball** *05:50:24 8/05/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325260.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:55:04 7/31/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325259.html) - **James** *08:26:16 7/31/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325258.html) - **Anthony** *02:56:19 7/31/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325255.html) - **Jarvis** *00:59:59 7/29/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325254.html) - **Joe** *12:45:19 7/28/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325253.html) - **steve** *09:45:35 7/28/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325251.html) - **Ted** *21:28:42 7/27/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325250.html) - **Patrick Brands** *09:47:08 7/26/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325249.html) - **sj** *20:54:03 7/24/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325248.html) - **Jason** *10:21:08 7/24/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325247.html) - **MG** *10:11:09 7/24/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325246.html) - **doninisrael** *09:28:37 7/24/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/325245.html) - **BruceJ** *07:51:22 7/24/17** [Checking in..havent posted in a while [PIC]](messages/325235.html) - **Gordy** *06:48:37 7/21/17*
> + [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325312.html) - **A.D.** *03:07:56 8/21/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325275.html) - **Hairball** *05:55:05 8/05/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325261.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:01:51 7/31/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325252.html) - **Ted** *21:31:33 7/27/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325239.html) - **Raymond** *10:01:45 7/22/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325238.html) - **BruceJ** *18:52:25 7/21/17*+ [Re: Checking in..havent posted in a while](messages/325236.html) - **Joe** *17:55:16 7/21/17** [growing hair for 2 years [PIC]](messages/325225.html) - **yeshello** *17:40:23 7/11/17*
> + [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325289.html) - **Ted** *21:54:28 8/08/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325276.html) - **Hairball** *06:01:47 8/05/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325262.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:48:53 7/31/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325234.html) - **Oren** *18:44:54 7/17/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325232.html) - **sj** *14:44:55 7/13/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325230.html) - **BruceJ** *20:07:09 7/12/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325228.html) - **Jarvis** *13:14:19 7/12/17*+ [Re: growing hair for 2 years](messages/325226.html) - **Raymond** *19:04:43 7/11/17** [REALLY ???](messages/325218.html) - **Marco** *11:50:29 7/07/17*
> + [Re: REALLY ???](messages/325223.html) - **BruceJ** *19:04:43 7/08/17*+ [Re: REALLY ???](messages/325219.html) - **Native Carolinian** *16:07:26 7/07/17** [Home Free and Long Hair](messages/325215.html) - **doninisrael** *23:06:06 7/04/17** [GOT](messages/325212.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:14:52 7/03/17*
> + [Maybe someday](messages/325229.html) - **Jarvis** *13:16:54 7/12/17*
> - [Re: Maybe someday](messages/325231.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:56:31 7/13/17*
> * [Re: Maybe someday](messages/325256.html) - **Jarvis** *01:03:17 7/29/17*
> + [Re: Maybe someday](messages/325257.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:32:16 7/29/17*
> - [Re: Maybe someday](messages/325294.html) - **Jarvis** *21:30:38 8/11/17*
> * [Re: Maybe someday](messages/325306.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:18:22 8/20/17*+ [Re: GOT](messages/325214.html) - **Markus** *13:14:37 7/04/17*+ [Re: GOT](messages/325213.html) - **TheLongairs** *21:27:13 7/03/17** [A must follow on Instagram [PIC]](messages/325211.html) - **Longhairfan** *08:15:26 7/01/17** [Below his waist](messages/325208.html) - **Marco** *17:16:32 6/29/17*
> + [Re: Below his waist](messages/325209.html) - **Markus** *03:07:58 6/30/17*
> - [Re: Below his waist](messages/325210.html) - **MG** *08:39:23 6/30/17** [Update](messages/325175.html) - **Markus** *08:24:53 6/19/17*
> + [Re: Update](messages/325227.html) - **aaaaa** *04:56:16 7/12/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325233.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:11:07 7/14/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325199.html) - **BruceJ** *18:59:08 6/23/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325185.html) - **Yadgar** *07:56:31 6/21/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325188.html) - **Markus** *08:03:44 6/21/17*
> * [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325198.html) - **Yadgar** *09:52:49 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325197.html) - **Yadgar** *09:51:22 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325196.html) - **Yadgar** *09:49:59 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325195.html) - **Yadgar** *09:48:44 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325194.html) - **Yadgar** *09:47:27 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325193.html) - **Yadgar** *09:46:13 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325192.html) - **Yadgar** *09:44:52 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325191.html) - **Yadgar** *09:23:04 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325190.html) - **Yadgar** *09:18:13 6/21/17** [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325189.html) - **Yadgar** *09:16:16 6/21/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325182.html) - **TheLonghairs** *03:08:26 6/21/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325186.html) - **Markus** *08:00:40 6/21/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325180.html) - **Ted** *21:40:51 6/20/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325187.html) - **Markus** *08:01:53 6/21/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325179.html) - **Raymond** *12:39:47 6/20/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325178.html) - **MG** *16:47:54 6/19/17*+ [Re: Update](messages/325177.html) - **sj** *16:26:01 6/19/17** [Hair on Board! [PIC]](messages/325164.html) - **doninisrael** *01:43:02 6/18/17*
> + [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325200.html) - **BruceJ** *20:09:06 6/23/17*+ [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325183.html) - **TheLonghairs** *03:08:33 6/21/17*
> - [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325184.html) - **doninisrael** *05:35:03 6/21/17*+ [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325171.html) - **Native Carolinian** *04:50:20 6/19/17*
> - [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325174.html) - **doninisrael** *05:25:25 6/19/17*
> * [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325176.html) - **Native Carolinian** *15:03:51 6/19/17*
> + [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325201.html) - **BruceJ** *20:15:03 6/23/17*
> - [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325204.html) - **doninisrael** *11:18:35 6/24/17*+ [Re: Hair on Board!](messages/325165.html) - **Hairball** *05:28:52 6/18/17** [Six Year Hair Update [PIC]](messages/325157.html) - **PhilipZ** *07:36:59 6/17/17*
> + [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325202.html) - **BruceJ** *20:40:55 6/23/17*
> - [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325222.html) - **PhilipZ** *04:47:33 7/08/17*+ [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325181.html) - **Ted** *21:46:30 6/20/17*
> - [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325221.html) - **PhilipZ** *04:44:02 7/08/17*+ [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325168.html) - **Absalom** *14:44:49 6/18/17*
> - [Thanks Scott! (n/t)](messages/325173.html) - **PhilipZ** *05:01:55 6/19/17*+ [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325166.html) - **Hairball** *05:34:06 6/18/17*
> - [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325172.html) - **PhilipZ** *05:00:24 6/19/17*+ [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325163.html) - **TheLonghairs** *23:47:39 6/17/17*
> - [Re: Six Year Hair Update](messages/325170.html) - **PhilipZ** *04:47:50 6/19/17*+ [Six Years of Hair](messages/325158.html) - **White Tail** *09:09:03 6/17/17*
> - [Thank you, Walter! (n/t)](messages/325220.html) - **PhilipZ** *04:31:31 7/08/17** [37 month journey ! [PIC]](messages/325147.html) - **Patrick Brands** *09:55:50 6/12/17*
> + [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325224.html) - **Tes** *03:16:05 7/11/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325203.html) - **BruceJ** *20:49:03 6/23/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325167.html) - **Hairball** *05:45:22 6/18/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325159.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:30:16 6/17/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325156.html) - **Ted** *19:54:04 6/16/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325155.html) - **TheLonghairs** *02:57:43 6/14/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325152.html) - **Raymond** *09:34:44 6/13/17*
> - [Re: 37 month journey ! [PIC]](messages/325153.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:03:20 6/13/17*
> * [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325154.html) - **Raymond** *21:03:58 6/13/17*+ [journey !](messages/325151.html) - **White Tail** *03:32:32 6/13/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325150.html) - **MG** *18:18:15 6/12/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325149.html) - **Mike** *17:54:09 6/12/17*+ [Re: 37 month journey !](messages/325148.html) - **sj** *15:12:35 6/12/17** [Wheel of Fortune ponytail](messages/325142.html) - **Jacob** *18:47:59 6/06/17*
> + [Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail](messages/325144.html) - **Marco** *15:17:00 6/07/17*
> - [Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail](messages/325146.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:56:07 6/08/17*- [Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail](messages/325145.html) - **MG** *16:59:41 6/07/17*+ [Re: Wheel of Fortune ponytail](messages/325143.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:45:28 6/07/17** [Hippie J video](messages/325140.html) - **Marco** *07:22:45 6/05/17*
> + [Re: Hippie J video](messages/325237.html) - **tomm** *18:16:22 7/21/17*+ [Re: Hippie J video](messages/325205.html) - **white mane** *18:14:52 6/24/17*+ [Re: Hippie J video](messages/325169.html) - **A.D.** *20:33:35 6/18/17*+ [Re: Hippie J video](messages/325160.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:36:18 6/17/17*+ [Re: Hippie J video](messages/325141.html) - **John** *05:12:07 6/06/17** [Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017](messages/325134.html) - **FITNESSDAVID** *04:00:50 6/02/17*
> + [Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017 [PIC]](messages/325135.html) - **Hairball** *07:31:05 6/03/17*
> - [Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017](messages/325137.html) - **MG** *04:55:32 6/04/17*
> * [Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017](messages/325139.html) - **Hairball** *05:09:44 6/04/17*- [Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017](messages/325136.html) - **FITNESSDAVID** *04:55:26 6/04/17*
> * [Re: Washing My long Hair and Henna application April, 2017](messages/325138.html) - **Hairball** *05:08:01 6/04/17** [Interesting article I came across](messages/325126.html) - **Jake** *04:52:01 5/30/17*
> + [Re: Interesting article I came across](messages/325133.html) - **Gene W** *03:58:03 6/02/17*+ [Re: Interesting article I came across](messages/325131.html) - **doninisrael** *02:58:39 5/31/17*+ [Re: Interesting article I came across](messages/325129.html) - **elektros** *22:13:54 5/30/17** [Overdue Update [PIC]](messages/325111.html) - **doninisrael** *22:25:49 5/22/17*
> + [Re: Overdue Update](messages/325161.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:17:15 6/17/17*+ [Re: Overdue Update [PIC]](messages/325112.html) - **doninisrael** *22:29:11 5/22/17*
> - [Re: Overdue Update](messages/325117.html) - **Lance** *02:09:30 5/24/17*- [Re: Overdue Update](messages/325113.html) - **Raymond** *23:22:11 5/22/17*
> * [Re: Samson and Delilah](messages/325114.html) - **doninisrael** *00:51:42 5/23/17** [Kelly Olynyk](messages/325096.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:11:00 5/15/17*
> + [Re: Kelly Olynyk](messages/325217.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:16:41 7/06/17*+ [Re: Kelly Olynyk](messages/325107.html) - **Joe** *10:08:59 5/21/17*
> - [Re: Kelly Olynyk](messages/325108.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:42:56 5/21/17** [Interesting article about hair bands](messages/325085.html) - **Jake** *03:06:44 5/08/17*
> + [Re: Interesting article about hair bands](messages/325097.html) - **elektros** *16:21:02 5/16/17*+ [Re: Interesting article about hair bands](messages/325095.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:23:52 5/14/17** [Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325084.html) - **Jake** *03:06:37 5/08/17*
> + [In short: yes.](messages/325128.html) - **Jarvis** *15:06:48 5/30/17*+ [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325127.html) - **Steve** *04:52:06 5/30/17*+ [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325099.html) - **Steve** *07:54:13 5/17/17*
> - [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325100.html) - **Jake** *17:07:28 5/18/17*
> * [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325102.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:22:41 5/19/17*
> + [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325104.html) - **Jake** *08:32:17 5/20/17*
> - [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325105.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:09:38 5/20/17*
> * [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325119.html) - **elektros** *17:08:56 5/25/17*
> + [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325120.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:12:55 5/25/17*
> - [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325121.html) - **elektros** *17:59:15 5/26/17*
> * [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325124.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:29:17 5/28/17*
> + [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325130.html) - **elektros** *22:18:55 5/30/17** [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325122.html) - **elektros** *18:00:39 5/26/17** [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325109.html) - **Jake** *03:18:19 5/22/17** [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325106.html) - **Jake** *19:14:27 5/20/17** [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325101.html) - **Anthony** *07:18:13 5/19/17*+ [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325087.html) - **Anthony** *06:20:58 5/08/17*+ [Re: Long and Short Hair history and question](messages/325086.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:26:27 5/08/17** [Question for everyone](messages/325071.html) - **Jake** *18:27:35 5/06/17*
> + [I think it is, but...](messages/325132.html) - **Jarvis** *20:06:16 6/01/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325098.html) - **elektros** *16:28:23 5/16/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325094.html) - **TheLonghairs** *17:17:15 5/11/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325090.html) - **Anthony** *06:24:34 5/09/17*
> - [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325092.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:52:43 5/09/17*- [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325091.html) - **Anthony** *06:31:01 5/09/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325077.html) - **Raymond** *05:05:18 5/07/17*
> - [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325082.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:14:06 5/07/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325076.html) - **doninoz** *00:28:05 5/07/17*
> - [Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!](messages/325103.html) - **doninisrael** *03:23:42 5/20/17*
> * [Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!](messages/325110.html) - **Jake** *18:33:46 5/22/17*
> + [Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!](messages/325115.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:03:35 5/23/17*
> - [Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!](messages/325116.html) - **doninisrael** *05:35:15 5/23/17*
> * [Re: Long Hair and Politics, Again!](messages/325118.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:32:11 5/25/17*
> + [That was then, this is now](messages/325123.html) - **Jake** *05:33:57 5/27/17*
> - [Re: That was then, this is now](messages/325125.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:01:27 5/28/17*+ [Re: Question for everyone](messages/325073.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:14:03 5/06/17** [The Synagogue is Going Longhair! [PIC]](messages/325063.html) - **doninoz** *04:10:48 5/06/17*
> + [Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair!](messages/325067.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:08:57 5/06/17*
> - [Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair!](messages/325069.html) - **doninoz** *07:35:04 5/06/17*+ [Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair!](messages/325064.html) - **doninoz** *04:16:47 5/06/17*
> - [Re: The Synagogue is Going Longhair!](messages/325066.html) - **Hairball** *06:07:27 5/06/17*
> * [Re: Life in Israel](messages/325068.html) - **doninoz** *07:24:32 5/06/17*
> + [Re: Life in Israel](messages/325078.html) - **Hairball** *05:35:26 5/07/17*
> - [Re: Life in Israel](messages/325081.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:05:01 5/07/17** [Update [PIC]](messages/325061.html) - **Vincent** *03:40:06 5/06/17*
> + [Re: Update](messages/325162.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:30:09 6/17/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325207.html) - **Vincent** *11:53:41 6/27/17*+ [Picture rotated [PIC]](messages/325062.html) - **Vincent** *03:42:02 5/06/17*
> - [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325089.html) - **Jason** *16:58:47 5/08/17*
> * [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325093.html) - **Vincent** *13:06:24 5/10/17*- [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325075.html) - **MG** *23:09:04 5/06/17*
> * [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325079.html) - **Vincent** *08:42:16 5/07/17*- [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325074.html) - **Tes** *20:44:56 5/06/17*
> * [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325080.html) - **Vincent** *08:43:51 5/07/17*- [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325065.html) - **Hairball** *05:56:55 5/06/17*
> * [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325070.html) - **Vincent** *13:21:33 5/06/17*
> + [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325083.html) - **Tes** *13:41:41 5/07/17*
> - [Re: Picture rotated](messages/325088.html) - **Vincent** *09:07:44 5/08/17** [Then and now [PIC]](messages/325049.html) - **Brad** *11:06:55 4/28/17*
> + [Re: Then and now](messages/325060.html) - **John In Denver** *12:47:23 5/05/17*+ [Re: Then and now](messages/325057.html) - **RossRS** *13:55:44 5/01/17*+ [Re: Then and now](messages/325056.html) - **sj** *20:49:33 4/30/17*+ [Re: Then and now](messages/325050.html) - **Raymond** *21:46:48 4/28/17*
> - [Re: Then and now](messages/325058.html) - **Brad** *03:08:26 5/03/17** [70 Month Hair Update [PIC]](messages/325035.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:12:48 4/25/17*
> + [Re: 70 Month Hair Update](messages/325044.html) - **Raymond** *05:41:34 4/26/17*+ [Re: 70 Month Hair Update](messages/325043.html) - **MG** *19:40:05 4/25/17*+ [Re: 70 Month Hair Update](messages/325040.html) - **Karsten** *15:24:22 4/25/17** [Cut my hair. [PIC]](messages/325015.html) - **W-G** *05:36:34 4/22/17*
> + [Re: Cut my hair.](messages/325024.html) - **Just Carol** *20:57:54 4/23/17** [Update](messages/324999.html) - **Steve** *08:01:36 4/20/17*
> + [Re: Update](messages/325004.html) - **sj** *15:33:14 4/20/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325011.html) - **Steve** *15:12:27 4/21/17*+ [Update](messages/325002.html) - **White Tail** *09:24:32 4/20/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325012.html) - **steve** *15:12:58 4/21/17*+ [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/325000.html) - **Steve** *08:03:05 4/20/17*
> - [Re: Update](messages/325053.html) - **Tes** *09:36:23 4/30/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325045.html) - **BruceJ** *20:23:48 4/26/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325041.html) - **Karsten** *16:33:32 4/25/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325025.html) - **Just Carol** *21:03:27 4/23/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325008.html) - **Ted** *21:07:56 4/20/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325005.html) - **Hairball** *17:17:30 4/20/17*
> * [Re: Update](messages/325029.html) - **steve** *13:07:39 4/24/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325003.html) - **Steve** *13:27:38 4/20/17*- [Re: Update](messages/325001.html) - **Guilherme S.** *09:20:19 4/20/17*
> * [Re: Update](messages/325030.html) - **steve** *13:08:39 4/24/17** [2017 update [PIC]](messages/324986.html) - **Karsten** *16:54:19 4/17/17*
> + [Re: 2017 update](messages/325216.html) - **Georges Huard** *17:24:08 7/06/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325034.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:15:01 4/25/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325039.html) - **Karsten** *15:09:25 4/25/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325032.html) - **A.D.** *21:05:02 4/24/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325033.html) - **Karsten** *03:30:09 4/25/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325026.html) - **Just Carol** *21:06:30 4/23/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325027.html) - **Karsten** *02:51:10 4/24/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325016.html) - **DavidN** *05:40:45 4/22/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325019.html) - **Karsten** *16:43:12 4/22/17*- [Re: 2017 update](messages/325017.html) - **Hairball** *06:04:40 4/22/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/325018.html) - **DavidN** *08:16:15 4/22/17*
> + [Re: 2017 update](messages/325020.html) - **Hairball** *18:34:13 4/22/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325021.html) - **DavidN** *03:52:37 4/23/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/325022.html) - **Hairball** *05:29:16 4/23/17*
> + [Re: 2017 update](messages/325023.html) - **DavudN** *07:34:07 4/23/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325028.html) - **Jason** *11:53:25 4/24/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/325038.html) - **DavidN** *14:05:14 4/25/17** [Re: 2017 update](messages/325031.html) - **Hairball** *14:01:31 4/24/17*
> + [Re: 2017 update](messages/325037.html) - **Jason** *11:55:31 4/25/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325042.html) - **Hairball** *18:37:32 4/25/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/325046.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:26:44 4/27/17*
> + [Re: 2017 update](messages/325048.html) - **Hairball** *06:22:33 4/28/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325051.html) - **MG** *23:32:54 4/28/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/325052.html) - **Hairball** *05:24:21 4/30/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325047.html) - **MG** *21:08:05 4/27/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325010.html) - **Gordy** *14:23:44 4/21/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325013.html) - **Karsten** *01:19:57 4/22/17*+ [Re: 2017 update [PIC]](messages/325009.html) - **James** *09:32:02 4/21/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325014.html) - **Karsten** *01:26:05 4/22/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/325006.html) - **Hairball** *17:21:37 4/20/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/325007.html) - **Karsten** *19:13:11 4/20/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/324994.html) - **Jason** *15:00:42 4/18/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/324997.html) - **Karsten** *17:21:45 4/18/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/324993.html) - **Markus** *14:34:13 4/18/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/324996.html) - **Karsten** *17:11:56 4/18/17*
> * [Re: 2017 update](messages/324998.html) - **Markus** *11:47:48 4/19/17*+ [update](messages/324992.html) - **White Tail** *10:39:13 4/18/17*
> - [Re: update](messages/324995.html) - **Karsten** *17:03:33 4/18/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/324989.html) - **Absalom** *20:15:48 4/17/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/324991.html) - **Karsten** *20:20:29 4/17/17*+ [Re: 2017 update](messages/324988.html) - **BruceJ** *20:03:18 4/17/17*
> - [Re: 2017 update](messages/324990.html) - **Karsten** *20:17:09 4/17/17*+ [headbanging [PIC]](messages/324987.html) - **Karsten** *17:01:42 4/17/17** [Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324968.html) - **Georges Huard** *06:36:30 4/11/17*
> + [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/325482.html) - **elektros** *20:29:45 11/04/17*+ [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/325480.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:34:54 11/03/17*+ [I prefer the old Thor!](messages/325072.html) - **Jake** *18:27:40 5/06/17*+ [Spoiler alert you've been warned](messages/324974.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:40:48 4/11/17*+ [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324971.html) - **Ted** *09:04:50 4/11/17*
> - [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324972.html) - **elektros** *10:51:12 4/11/17*+ [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324970.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:23:46 4/11/17*
> - [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324975.html) - **Markus** *14:32:35 4/12/17*
> * [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324976.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:16:53 4/12/17*
> + [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/325483.html) - **elektros** *20:33:00 11/04/17*+ [Re: Thor breaks a Stereotype.](messages/324969.html) - **Validus** *07:13:14 4/11/17** [An Pic Update of Me [PIC]](messages/324959.html) - **John In Denver** *09:23:30 4/10/17*
> + [Re: An Pic Update of Me](messages/325054.html) - **Tes** *09:36:28 4/30/17*+ [Re: An Pic Update of Me](messages/324979.html) - **BruceJ** *17:54:31 4/13/17*
> - [Re: An Pic Update of Me](messages/324985.html) - **John in Denver** *10:44:59 4/15/17*+ [Re: An Pic Update of Me](messages/324966.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:55:24 4/10/17*
> - [Re: An Pic Update of Me](messages/324977.html) - **John in Denver** *14:20:46 4/13/17** [35 month update ! Close to 3 years [PIC]](messages/324936.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:51:00 4/07/17*
> + [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/325055.html) - **Tes** *09:36:34 4/30/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/325036.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:10:21 4/25/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324978.html) - **BruceJ** *17:36:47 4/13/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324965.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:49:27 4/10/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324954.html) - **Just Carol** *18:10:29 4/08/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324950.html) - **John in Denver** *09:14:40 4/08/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324946.html) - **Absalom** *02:35:51 4/08/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324945.html) - **Raymond** *20:42:42 4/07/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324943.html) - **Ted** *16:15:08 4/07/17*+ [Re: 35 month update ! Close to 3 years](messages/324941.html) - **sj** *16:00:56 4/07/17** [My apologies for being so absent! [PIC]](messages/324927.html) - **Ken in SF / AKA ''Urban Cowboy''** *22:27:37 4/06/17*
> + [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324983.html) - **DavidN** *03:53:31 4/14/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324980.html) - **BruceJ** *18:13:25 4/13/17*
> - [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324981.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:20:13 4/13/17*
> * [No fishing allowed! !!! n/t](messages/324984.html) - **BruceJ** *18:44:25 4/14/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324951.html) - **Just Carol** *17:35:11 4/08/17*
> - [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324964.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:43:30 4/10/17*
> * [Short response](messages/324967.html) - **Just Carol** *21:10:51 4/10/17*+ [Good to hear from you!](messages/324939.html) - **elektros** *15:02:07 4/07/17*
> - [Re: Good to hear from you!](messages/324963.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:29:20 4/10/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324937.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:53:29 4/07/17*
> - [Computers](messages/324962.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:25:37 4/10/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324935.html) - **Anthony** *11:51:16 4/07/17*
> - [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324961.html) - **Ken in SF** *18:12:13 4/10/17*+ [good news](messages/324931.html) - **White Tail** *10:52:59 4/07/17*
> - [Re: good news](messages/324934.html) - **Ken in SF** *11:33:26 4/07/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324930.html) - **Markus** *09:55:21 4/07/17*
> - [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324933.html) - **Ken in SF** *11:25:46 4/07/17*+ [Re: My apologies for being so absent!](messages/324929.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:17:16 4/07/17*
> - [Thanks 4 the info! N/T)](messages/324932.html) - **Ken in SF** *11:16:31 4/07/17*+ [And here's another favorite hair... [PIC]](messages/324928.html) - **Ken in SF** *22:39:59 4/06/17*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/325206.html) - **Don** *13:35:49 6/25/17*- [Re: And here's another favorite hair...](messages/324947.html) - **Hairball** *05:11:38 4/08/17*
> * [Haight-Ashbury's 50th Anniversary ''Summer of Love''](messages/324960.html) - **Ken in SF** *17:59:48 4/10/17** [Update (PIC)](messages/324909.html) - **Markus** *07:33:24 4/04/17*
> + [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324955.html) - **Just Carol** *18:26:18 4/08/17*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324944.html) - **Ted** *16:22:53 4/07/17*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324948.html) - **Markus** *05:48:42 4/08/17*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324926.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:41:43 4/06/17*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324916.html) - **elektros** *21:16:39 4/04/17*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324918.html) - **Markus** *04:54:26 4/05/17*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324915.html) - **MG** *16:17:57 4/04/17*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324920.html) - **Markus** *04:55:53 4/05/17*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324912.html) - **Jason** *07:55:16 4/04/17*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324914.html) - **Markus** *14:18:44 4/04/17** [An Update](messages/324881.html) - **Jason** *16:55:42 4/01/17*
> + [Re: An Update](messages/324952.html) - **Just Carol** *17:48:31 4/08/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324958.html) - **Jason** *05:46:41 4/10/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324925.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:34:52 4/06/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324949.html) - **Jason** *06:58:46 4/08/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324908.html) - **Yadgar** *05:54:27 4/04/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324911.html) - **Jason** *07:38:39 4/04/17*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/324917.html) - **Yadgar** *01:12:49 4/05/17*
> + [yes (n/t)](messages/324919.html) - **Jason** *04:54:32 4/05/17*
> - [Re: yes (n/t) [PIC]](messages/324923.html) - **Yadgar** *17:13:46 4/05/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324906.html) - **Markus** *10:05:42 4/03/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324910.html) - **Jason** *07:37:37 4/04/17*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/324913.html) - **Markus** *13:51:42 4/04/17*+ [your usual excellent Update](messages/324893.html) - **White Tail** *09:13:06 4/02/17*
> - [Re: your usual excellent Update](messages/324901.html) - **Jason** *06:45:39 4/03/17*
> * [this and that](messages/324904.html) - **White Tail** *09:52:16 4/03/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324890.html) - **DavidN** *07:07:56 4/02/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324900.html) - **Jason** *06:43:31 4/03/17*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/324905.html) - **DavidN** *09:58:30 4/03/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324888.html) - **Hairball** *05:41:56 4/02/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324899.html) - **Jason** *06:35:41 4/03/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324887.html) - **Absalom** *21:35:26 4/01/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324898.html) - **Jason** *06:31:56 4/03/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324885.html) - **Ted** *20:40:36 4/01/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324897.html) - **Jason** *06:29:03 4/03/17*
> * [Re: An Update](messages/324902.html) - **Ted** *07:22:34 4/03/17*+ [Re: An Update](messages/324883.html) - **Darrin** *18:40:27 4/01/17*
> - [Re: An Update](messages/324896.html) - **Jason** *06:25:48 4/03/17** [Update 18 Months [PIC]](messages/324872.html) - **Ted** *19:41:35 3/31/17*
> + [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324953.html) - **Just Carol** *17:56:02 4/08/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324956.html) - **Ted** *21:41:24 4/09/17*
> * [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324957.html) - **Just Carol** *22:52:02 4/09/17*
> + [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324982.html) - **Ted** *23:19:24 4/13/17*+ [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324938.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:54:57 4/07/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324942.html) - **Ted** *16:09:29 4/07/17*+ [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324924.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:23:05 4/06/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324940.html) - **Ted** *15:57:59 4/07/17*+ [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324895.html) - **A.D.** *21:28:16 4/02/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months](messages/324903.html) - **Ted** *07:32:10 4/03/17*+ [Re: Update 18 Months (back view) [PIC]](messages/324873.html) - **Ted** *19:42:57 3/31/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324891.html) - **DavidN** *07:33:32 4/02/17*
> * [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324894.html) - **Ted** *21:02:14 4/02/17*- [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324889.html) - **Hairball** *05:49:16 4/02/17*- [Dammit! this is the front view!](messages/324876.html) - **Ted** *23:23:42 3/31/17*- [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324874.html) - **Raymond** *21:30:01 3/31/17*
> * [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324875.html) - **Ted** *23:21:20 3/31/17*
> + [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324882.html) - **Darrin** *18:35:17 4/01/17*
> - [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324884.html) - **Ted** *20:31:16 4/01/17*
> * [Re: Update 18 Months (back view)](messages/324892.html) - **Darrin** *08:45:52 4/02/17** [Longhair Lost](messages/324864.html) - **MG** *03:09:38 3/31/17*
> + [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324866.html) - **Jacob** *09:53:30 3/31/17*
> - [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324870.html) - **yoshiki** *15:54:50 3/31/17*
> * [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324877.html) - **MG** *05:18:51 4/01/17*
> + [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324886.html) - **Ted** *20:42:47 4/01/17*- [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324869.html) - **MG** *15:51:15 3/31/17*
> * [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324871.html) - **Jacob** *17:11:38 3/31/17*- [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324867.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:46:04 3/31/17*
> * [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324878.html) - **Cameron** *15:34:38 4/01/17*
> + [Re: Longhair Lost](messages/324879.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:12:46 4/01/17** [Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324842.html) - **James** *15:22:01 3/25/17*
> + [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324907.html) - **Ev** *12:11:01 4/03/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324858.html) - **Neal** *09:02:45 3/28/17*
> - [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324859.html) - **James** *17:32:46 3/28/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324849.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:14:28 3/26/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324847.html) - **Hairball** *05:50:02 3/26/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324846.html) - **MG** *03:24:36 3/26/17*
> - [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324850.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:32:48 3/26/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324845.html) - **Absalom** *03:23:27 3/26/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324844.html) - **Just Carol** *22:08:13 3/25/17*
> - [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324848.html) - **Jamed** *06:46:27 3/26/17*+ [Re: Long time hair stylist cut to much length](messages/324843.html) - **Raymond** *20:03:54 3/25/17** [KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324829.html) - **Justin** *13:44:00 3/22/17*
> + [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324832.html) - **Absalom** *22:56:06 3/22/17*
> - [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324834.html) - **Justin** *11:02:30 3/23/17*
> * [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324837.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:10:51 3/23/17*
> + [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324851.html) - **justin** *13:34:14 3/26/17*
> - [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324853.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:15:42 3/26/17*
> * [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324855.html) - **Justin** *23:36:21 3/26/17*
> + [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324856.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:31:03 3/27/17*
> - [TIME FOR YOU TO GET LOST, AND FURTHER..........](messages/324857.html) - **Justin** *11:44:48 3/27/17*- [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324833.html) - **Validus** *09:07:36 3/23/17*
> * [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324835.html) - **Justin** *11:24:52 3/23/17*
> + [Re: KEN STILL NOT HEARD FROM? \*IMPORTANT\*](messages/324836.html) - **Validus** *12:21:58 3/23/17*
> - [Re: My long hair at its longest. ''Video'' of 2010.](messages/324838.html) - **Justin** *17:56:36 3/23/17*
> * [Re: My long hair at its longest. ''Video'' of 2010.](messages/324841.html) - **Darrin** *04:56:13 3/25/17*
> + [Re: Thanks Darrin. :-) nt.](messages/324852.html) - **Justin** *13:36:28 3/26/17*+ [Ken is fine....](messages/324830.html) - **Hairball** *19:41:25 3/22/17*
> - [Re: Ken is fine....](messages/324860.html) - **Ted** *20:54:56 3/29/17*
> * [Re: Ken is fine....](messages/324861.html) - **Hairball** *03:23:58 3/30/17*
> + [Re: Ken is fine....](messages/324863.html) - **Ted** *22:13:51 3/30/17*
> - [Re: Ken is fine....](messages/324865.html) - **Hairball** *03:20:05 3/31/17*
> * [Re: Ken is fine....](messages/324868.html) - **Ted** *15:30:48 3/31/17*- [Thanks for the info. A great relief. nt.](messages/324831.html) - **Justin** *22:47:08 3/22/17*
> * [Re: Thanks for the info. A great relief. nt.](messages/324862.html) - **Ted** *18:59:14 3/30/17** [Super hair](messages/324827.html) - **SAM** *02:31:27 3/21/17*
> + [Re: Super hair](messages/324828.html) - **Absalom** *02:34:32 3/21/17** [Hair](messages/324824.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:46:50 3/20/17*
> + [Re: Hair](messages/324825.html) - **Absalom** *02:26:32 3/21/17** [Am new here](messages/324815.html) - **Kevin0609** *10:45:08 3/18/17*
> + [Re: Am new here](messages/324840.html) - **Bob** *12:39:08 3/24/17*+ [Re: Am new here](messages/324822.html) - **Cameron** *14:48:43 3/19/17*
> - [Re: Am new here](messages/324823.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:45:34 3/19/17*
> * [Re: Am new here](messages/324826.html) - **Cameron** *02:28:27 3/21/17*+ [Re: Am new here](messages/324821.html) - **Gene W** *10:16:51 3/19/17*+ [Re: Am new here](messages/324819.html) - **Raymond** *21:23:14 3/18/17*
> - [Re: Am new here](messages/324820.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:33:38 3/19/17*+ [Re: Am new here](messages/324817.html) - **sj** *17:31:07 3/18/17*
> - [Re: Am new here](messages/324818.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:59:33 3/18/17*+ [Re: Am new here](messages/324816.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:06:47 3/18/17** [2 year journey [PIC]](messages/324808.html) - **Neal** *13:07:32 3/14/17*
> + [Re: 2 year journey](messages/324811.html) - **Raymond** *02:38:47 3/15/17*+ [Re: 2 year journey](messages/324809.html) - **Absalom** *16:48:29 3/14/17** [Dad talks to his son about being bullied goes viral](messages/324806.html) - **Jake** *16:21:41 3/13/17*
> + [Re: Dad talks to his son about being bullied goes viral](messages/324813.html) - **Native Carolinian** *03:14:30 3/16/17** [Biotin supplements for hair growth?](messages/324794.html) - **Darrin** *13:53:22 3/12/17*
> + [Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?](messages/324802.html) - **Absalom** *01:27:46 3/13/17*+ [Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?](messages/324801.html) - **Just Carol** *22:11:26 3/12/17*
> - [Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?](messages/324804.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:04:41 3/13/17*
> * [Re: Biotin supplements for hair growth?](messages/324805.html) - **Darrin** *12:41:41 3/13/17** [Terminal Length](messages/324782.html) - **Darrin** *07:27:10 3/08/17*
> + [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324854.html) - **trolleypup** *23:33:06 3/26/17*+ [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324789.html) - **Viking** *06:41:55 3/10/17*
> - [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324793.html) - **Darrin** *13:51:37 3/12/17*
> * [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324922.html) - **Viking** *08:54:23 4/05/17*- [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324792.html) - **Darrin** *13:41:49 3/12/17*- [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324790.html) - **Jason** *07:59:26 3/10/17*
> * [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324791.html) - **Just Carol** *22:49:02 3/10/17*
> + [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324812.html) - **Jason** *05:53:10 3/15/17*
> - [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324921.html) - **Viking** *08:49:04 4/05/17*- [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324814.html) - **Just Carol** *23:22:18 3/16/17*+ [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324788.html) - **Raymond** *17:56:36 3/08/17*+ [Re: Terminal Length](messages/324785.html) - **elektros** *17:33:52 3/08/17** [A Hundred Hippies... [PIC]](messages/324766.html) - **Yadgar** *04:26:54 3/06/17*
> + [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324767.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:25:28 3/06/17*
> - [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324770.html) - **Yadgar** *13:29:05 3/06/17*
> * [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324774.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:11:27 3/06/17*
> + [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324803.html) - **Ev** *01:33:34 3/13/17** [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324773.html) - **MG** *16:36:24 3/06/17** [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324771.html) - **beachbum** *14:55:04 3/06/17*
> + [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324775.html) - **Yadgar** *18:22:33 3/06/17*
> - [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324777.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:07:05 3/07/17*
> * [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324778.html) - **Yadgar** *08:16:57 3/07/17*
> + [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324779.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:05:14 3/07/17*
> - [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324780.html) - **Yadgar** *16:56:51 3/07/17*
> * [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324781.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *21:46:02 3/07/17*- [Re: A Hundred Hippies...](messages/324776.html) - **Yadgar** *18:28:33 3/06/17** [Urban Cowboy...](messages/324765.html) - **beachbum** *15:28:39 3/05/17*
> + [Re: Urban Cowboy...](messages/324783.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:37:02 3/08/17*
> - [Re: Urban Cowboy...](messages/324784.html) - **Absalom** *14:12:50 3/08/17*
> * [Re: Urban Cowboy...](messages/324786.html) - **elektros** *17:37:28 3/08/17*+ [Ken in SF](messages/324769.html) - **Jason** *12:37:39 3/06/17*+ [Re: Urban Cowboy...](messages/324768.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:30:29 3/06/17** [Receding hairline? [PIC]](messages/324763.html) - **Semicolon** *15:13:39 3/05/17*
> + [Re: Receding hairline?](messages/324772.html) - **beachbum** *14:57:01 3/06/17** [Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324752.html) - **Joe** *07:30:20 3/04/17*
> + [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324764.html) - **Native Carolinian** *15:13:44 3/05/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324761.html) - **Hairball** *05:37:33 3/05/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324759.html) - **MG** *05:25:24 3/05/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324758.html) - **Just Carol** *17:47:33 3/04/17*
> - [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324762.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:12:37 3/05/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324756.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:43:33 3/04/17*
> - [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324757.html) - **Just Carol** *17:25:31 3/04/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324755.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *10:06:57 3/04/17*+ [Re: Man Gets His Hair Chopped Off... Ouch!](messages/324754.html) - **Steve** *09:19:32 3/04/17** [Grizzly Adams](messages/324744.html) - **JSFrodo** *01:27:34 3/01/17*
> + [Re: Grizzly Adams](messages/324745.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:07:01 3/01/17** [Wedding Hair Ideas? [PIC]](messages/324736.html) - **ThatWeddingHairGuy** *15:43:06 2/27/17*
> + [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/325391.html) - **J.M.M.** *13:44:56 9/17/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324753.html) - **Viking** *08:49:12 3/04/17*+ [Wedding Hair Ideas](messages/324750.html) - **Paul Knoke** *03:20:11 3/02/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324749.html) - **Hairball** *19:02:48 3/01/17*
> - [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324751.html) - **MG** *03:24:13 3/02/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324747.html) - **Markus** *10:06:50 3/01/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324746.html) - **Just Carol** *09:30:39 3/01/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324741.html) - **UVALee** *03:03:10 2/28/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324739.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:51:13 2/27/17*+ [Re: Wedding Hair Ideas?](messages/324737.html) - **MG** *16:12:32 2/27/17** [Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(](messages/324730.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:15:08 2/27/17*
> + [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(](messages/324738.html) - **Raymond** *20:05:49 2/27/17*+ [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(](messages/324733.html) - **Darrin** *12:18:29 2/27/17*+ [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( [PIC]](messages/324732.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:19:51 2/27/17*+ [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :( [PIC]](messages/324731.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:19:17 2/27/17*
> - [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(](messages/324734.html) - **beachbum** *13:15:58 2/27/17*
> * [Re: Bad Split ends...had to get a trim :(](messages/324735.html) - **beachbum** *13:17:53 2/27/17** [Peter Sagan](messages/324727.html) - **Jason** *07:02:01 2/27/17*
> + [Re: Peter Sagan](messages/324729.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:49:29 2/27/17** [Hair update . 40 months [PIC]](messages/324725.html) - **MarkS** *11:17:27 2/26/17*
> + [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324748.html) - **BruceJ** *18:32:29 3/01/17*
> - [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324787.html) - **MarkS** *17:56:31 3/08/17*+ [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324740.html) - **Validus** *21:01:38 2/27/17*
> - [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324742.html) - **MarkS** *16:08:31 2/28/17*+ [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324728.html) - **Jason** *07:09:00 2/27/17*
> - [Re: Hair update . 40 months](messages/324743.html) - **MarkS** *18:02:14 2/28/17*+ [Front view [PIC]](messages/324726.html) - **MarkS** *16:08:42 2/26/17** [Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324707.html) - **Invictus66** *03:09:15 2/21/17*
> + [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324839.html) - **Bob** *12:18:32 3/24/17*+ [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324724.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:24:41 2/23/17*+ [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324719.html) - **sj** *20:20:32 2/21/17*
> - [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324721.html) - **elektros** *21:33:59 2/22/17*
> * [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324722.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:16:18 2/23/17*+ [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324712.html) - **elektros** *10:24:11 2/21/17*+ [Re: Job Discrimination for Men With Long Hair](messages/324710.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:08:13 2/21/17** [Me at work :)](messages/324702.html) - **Alexander** *08:48:13 2/19/17*
> + [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324708.html) - **Yadgar** *04:47:41 2/21/17*
> - [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324709.html) - **Alexander** *05:03:54 2/21/17*
> * [Re: Me at work :) [PIC]](messages/324716.html) - **Yadgar** *12:30:04 2/21/17** [Re: Me at work :) [PIC]](messages/324715.html) - **Yadgar** *12:28:49 2/21/17** [Re: Me at work :) [PIC]](messages/324714.html) - **Yadgar** *12:26:48 2/21/17** [Re: Me at work :) [PIC]](messages/324713.html) - **Yadgar** *12:23:23 2/21/17*+ [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324704.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:45:18 2/20/17*
> - [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324706.html) - **Alexander** *07:59:43 2/20/17*
> * [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324717.html) - **Yadgar** *14:35:07 2/21/17*
> + [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324720.html) - **Alexander** *05:07:33 2/22/17*+ [Re: Me at work :)](messages/324703.html) - **Raymond** *21:18:01 2/19/17** [Danny Cecati](messages/324697.html) - **Marco** *12:40:59 2/17/17*
> + [Re: Danny Cecati [PIC]](messages/324723.html) - **Uwe** *13:48:41 2/23/17*+ [Re: Danny Cecati](messages/324705.html) - **MG** *05:30:22 2/20/17*+ [Re: Danny Cecati](messages/324701.html) - **Markus** *07:24:51 2/18/17*+ [Re: Danny Cecati](messages/324700.html) - **Just Carol** *22:32:33 2/17/17*+ [Re: Danny Cecati](messages/324699.html) - **Absalom** *20:35:03 2/17/17*+ [Re: Danny Cecati](messages/324698.html) - **Jacob** *18:07:21 2/17/17** [Like Father, Like Son (spotted on Grammy Red Carpet) [PIC]](messages/324695.html) - **Just Carol** *13:04:15 2/14/17** [Neck Fuzz [PIC]](messages/324679.html) - **Neal** *05:41:24 2/11/17*
> + [Re: Neck Fuzz [PIC]](messages/324797.html) - **Dan the Man** *21:08:54 3/12/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324693.html) - **PhilipZ** *07:10:48 2/14/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324692.html) - **MG** *05:39:16 2/12/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324690.html) - **Absalom** *05:32:27 2/12/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324689.html) - **James** *02:20:33 2/12/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324687.html) - **sj** *22:48:24 2/11/17*
> - [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324696.html) - **Neal** *17:17:29 2/14/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324685.html) - **Guilherme S.** *19:14:24 2/11/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324682.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:54:53 2/11/17*+ [Re: Neck Fuzz](messages/324681.html) - **Hairball** *05:53:25 2/11/17** [Hair update [PIC]](messages/324677.html) - **Anthony** *02:08:47 2/10/17*
> + [Re: Hair update](messages/325059.html) - **white mane** *07:53:56 5/03/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324718.html) - **Duncan** *20:07:21 2/21/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324711.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:11:49 2/21/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324694.html) - **PhilipZ** *07:15:28 2/14/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324691.html) - **Absalom** *05:34:45 2/12/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324688.html) - **James** *02:18:09 2/12/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324684.html) - **BruceJ** *18:38:07 2/11/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324680.html) - **Hairball** *05:48:33 2/11/17*+ [Re: Hair update](messages/324678.html) - **Alexander** *13:06:07 2/10/17** [33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]](messages/324659.html) - **Patrick brands** *09:46:44 2/06/17*
> + [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324683.html) - **Hairball** *05:56:34 2/11/17*+ [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324675.html) - **BruceJ** *21:01:34 2/07/17*+ [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324663.html) - **Yadgar** *08:24:11 2/07/17*
> - [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324673.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:28:12 2/07/17*
> * [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324674.html) - **Yadgar** *19:56:30 2/07/17*- [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324664.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:25:46 2/07/17*
> * [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324665.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:13:32 2/07/17*
> + [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324666.html) - **Yadgar** *14:05:45 2/07/17*
> - [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324667.html) - **Patrick Brands** *16:51:40 2/07/17*
> * [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]](messages/324672.html) - **Yadgar** *19:06:48 2/07/17** [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]](messages/324671.html) - **Yadgar** *19:03:44 2/07/17** [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]](messages/324670.html) - **Yadgar** *19:01:17 2/07/17** [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324669.html) - **Yadgar** *19:00:42 2/07/17** [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :) [PIC]](messages/324668.html) - **Yadgar** *18:59:05 2/07/17*+ [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324661.html) - **Raymond** *17:39:05 2/06/17*
> - [Re: 33 month update !! Sooooo close to 3 year mark :)](messages/324662.html) - **Patrck Brands** *07:39:10 2/07/17** [Long hair and ventilator = good combination](messages/324655.html) - **Robin H.** *17:09:32 2/05/17*
> + [Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination](messages/324658.html) - **Guilherme S.** *03:00:09 2/06/17*+ [Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination](messages/324657.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:29:06 2/05/17*
> - [Re: Long hair and ventilator = good combination](messages/324660.html) - **Robin H.** *17:31:40 2/06/17** [Question about hair growth/hygeine](messages/324652.html) - **Frank** *03:10:59 2/03/17*
> + [Re: Question about hair growth/hygeine](messages/324654.html) - **Trolleypup** *21:28:49 2/03/17** [Research Part 2](messages/324641.html) - **Alan** *18:05:32 2/01/17*
> + [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324686.html) - **Ev** *19:14:29 2/11/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324656.html) - **steve** *17:09:37 2/05/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324653.html) - **Todd** *19:28:06 2/03/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2 [PIC]](messages/324651.html) - **James** *18:23:54 2/02/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324650.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:49:22 2/02/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324649.html) - **Raymond** *07:41:31 2/02/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324643.html) - **elektros** *20:37:59 2/01/17*+ [Re: Research Part 2](messages/324642.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *19:20:26 2/01/17** [Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324634.html) - **owias12** *15:05:53 1/31/17*
> + [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324644.html) - **elektros** *20:41:33 2/01/17*+ [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324638.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:01:00 2/01/17*+ [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324635.html) - **Just Carol** *23:51:31 1/31/17*
> - [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324639.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:05:22 2/01/17*- [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324637.html) - **owias12** *03:12:02 2/01/17*
> * [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324645.html) - **Just Carol** *22:02:19 2/01/17*
> + [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324647.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:46:39 2/02/17** [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324640.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:14:03 2/01/17*
> + [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324646.html) - **owias12** *03:05:19 2/02/17*
> - [Re: Hair loss/thinning from medications](messages/324648.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:50:18 2/02/17** [Kids' updates [PIC]](messages/324617.html) - **Validus** *08:51:18 1/27/17*
> + [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324676.html) - **Validus** *06:25:50 2/08/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324636.html) - **Just Carol** *23:58:23 1/31/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324630.html) - **Jason** *08:20:23 1/28/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324629.html) - **Raymond** *08:15:50 1/28/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324627.html) - **Alexander** *22:46:57 1/27/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324626.html) - **Mark** *22:44:09 1/27/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324625.html) - **beachbum** *14:20:47 1/27/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324620.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:30:15 1/27/17*+ [Re: Kids' updates](messages/324619.html) - **Guilherme S.** *09:22:01 1/27/17*+ [8- and 4-year-old sons [PIC]](messages/324618.html) - **Validus** *08:55:24 1/27/17*
> - [Re: 8- and 4-year-old sons](messages/324628.html) - **Hairball** *05:06:38 1/28/17** [Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324610.html) - **Yadgar** *14:56:33 1/26/17*
> + [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324621.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:50:11 1/27/17*+ [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324614.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:55:51 1/27/17*+ [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324612.html) - **MG** *03:12:38 1/27/17*
> - [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324631.html) - **Native Carolinian** *18:17:39 1/28/17*
> * [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324632.html) - **Yadgar** *19:30:25 1/28/17*
> + [Re: Perfect Native Mane!](messages/324633.html) - **Native Carolinian** *03:32:18 1/31/17** [A few months short of 6 years update [PIC]](messages/324607.html) - **Lance** *03:14:10 1/26/17** [A journey again, as long as I can :) ... [PIC]](messages/324584.html) - **yoshiki** *15:03:05 1/23/17*
> + [Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ...](messages/324601.html) - **Jason** *08:31:36 1/25/17*+ [Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ...](messages/324594.html) - **elektros** *12:49:54 1/24/17*+ [Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ...](messages/324590.html) - **Anthony** *06:14:42 1/24/17*+ [Re: A journey again, as long as I can :) ...](messages/324586.html) - **sj** *03:16:31 1/24/17** [New to the site!](messages/324583.html) - **Alexander** *13:37:45 1/23/17*
> + [New](messages/324608.html) - **White Tail** *03:16:46 1/26/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324602.html) - **Jason** *08:34:29 1/25/17*
> - [Re: New to the site!](messages/324606.html) - **Alexander** *02:48:59 1/26/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324598.html) - **Guilherme S.** *16:21:37 1/24/17*
> - [Re: New to the site!](messages/324600.html) - **Alexander** *08:00:00 1/25/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324597.html) - **Raymond** *16:21:32 1/24/17*
> - [Re: New to the site!](messages/324599.html) - **Alexander** *07:55:23 1/25/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324592.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:53:29 1/24/17*
> - [Re: New to the site!](messages/324593.html) - **Alexander** *12:36:36 1/24/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324587.html) - **sj** *03:16:38 1/24/17*+ [Re: New to the site!](messages/324585.html) - **Hairball** *18:03:59 1/23/17*
> - [Re: New to the site!](messages/324613.html) - **MG** *03:12:44 1/27/17*- [Re: New to the site!](messages/324589.html) - **Alexander** *04:17:50 1/24/17** [Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324576.html) - **Validus** *17:03:27 1/22/17*
> + [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324611.html) - **Yadgar** *15:06:43 1/26/17*
> - [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324615.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:58:25 1/27/17*
> * [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324624.html) - **Yadgar** *13:06:27 1/27/17*+ [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324603.html) - **Jason** *08:37:09 1/25/17*+ [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324582.html) - **White Tail** *03:32:32 1/23/17*+ [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324581.html) - **Mark** *23:29:39 1/22/17*
> - [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324616.html) - **Validus** *08:47:49 1/27/17*+ [Re: Happy 20th Birthday to the MLHH!!!](messages/324578.html) - **Hairball** *17:51:26 1/22/17** [5.5 Years of growing out hair (video) [PIC]](messages/324575.html) - **PhilipZ** *09:33:28 1/22/17*
> + [Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video)](messages/324604.html) - **Jason** *08:39:38 1/25/17*
> - [Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video)](messages/324622.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:55:19 1/27/17*+ [Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video)](messages/324580.html) - **Hairball** *18:12:06 1/22/17*
> - [Re: 5.5 Years of growing out hair (video)](messages/324591.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:46:47 1/24/17** [Finally going for it again!! [PIC]](messages/324572.html) - **Skyfather** *02:28:20 1/22/17*
> + [Re: Finally going for it again!!](messages/324596.html) - **elektros** *13:16:24 1/24/17*+ [Re: Finally going for it again!!](messages/324574.html) - **Hairball** *06:05:26 1/22/17*
> - [Re: Finally going for it again!!](messages/324577.html) - **Skyfather** *17:39:53 1/22/17*
> * [Re: Finally going for it again!!](messages/324579.html) - **Hairball** *18:06:44 1/22/17** [Research](messages/324568.html) - **Alan** *17:14:51 1/19/17*
> + [Re: Research](messages/324609.html) - **Alan** *10:28:32 1/26/17*+ [Re: Research](messages/324605.html) - **Alan** *09:14:15 1/25/17*+ [Re: Research](messages/324595.html) - **elektros** *13:11:12 1/24/17*+ [Copy and Paste from my old thread](messages/324588.html) - **Guilherme S.** *03:41:46 1/24/17*+ [Re: Research](messages/324571.html) - **Guilherme S.** *05:41:41 1/21/17*+ [Re: Research](messages/324570.html) - **Raymond** *05:41:35 1/21/17*
> - [Re: Research](messages/324573.html) - **Markus** *04:32:28 1/22/17*+ [Re: Research](messages/324569.html) - **Raymond** *16:25:02 1/20/17** [32 Month Hair Journey :) [PIC]](messages/324559.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:56:33 1/10/17*
> + [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324623.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:12:46 1/27/17*+ [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324564.html) - **Tes** *07:43:24 1/14/17*
> - [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324566.html) - **Patrick Brands** *09:09:49 1/17/17*+ [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324563.html) - **Raymond** *03:10:49 1/12/17*+ [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324562.html) - **sj** *16:48:53 1/11/17*+ [Side shot [PIC]](messages/324561.html) - **Patrick Brands** *15:55:05 1/11/17*+ [Re: 32 Month Hair Journey :)](messages/324560.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:57:44 1/10/17** [Inspiration [PIC]](messages/324550.html) - **White Tail** *05:39:24 1/08/17*
> + [Re: Inspiration](messages/324551.html) - **Mark** *12:47:25 1/08/17*
> - [Re: Inspiration](messages/324557.html) - **MG** *15:53:57 1/08/17*
> * [Re: Inspiration](messages/324558.html) - **Trolleypup** *18:16:12 1/09/17** [Yearly Update [PIC]](messages/324540.html) - **A.D.** *16:18:41 1/04/17*
> + [Re: Yearly Update [PIC]](messages/324541.html) - **A.D.** *16:20:14 1/04/17*
> - [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324556.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:33:12 1/08/17*- [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324547.html) - **beachbum** *15:42:00 1/06/17*
> * [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324552.html) - **A.D.** *14:35:45 1/08/17*- [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324544.html) - **Markus** *03:06:06 1/06/17*
> * [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324553.html) - **A.D.** *14:37:21 1/08/17*- [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324542.html) - **Steve** *14:31:38 1/05/17*
> * [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324554.html) - **A.D.** *14:40:04 1/08/17*
> + [Re: Yearly Update](messages/324555.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:30:23 1/08/17** [Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!](messages/324534.html) - **brucew** *20:39:38 1/03/17*
> + [Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!](messages/324538.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:19:55 1/04/17*+ [Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!](messages/324535.html) - **elektros** *20:45:32 1/03/17*
> - [Re: Brushing your hair? Yeah, there's an app for that!](messages/324539.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:23:56 1/04/17** [Have a Happy New year all !!! [PIC]](messages/324519.html) - **Patrick Brands** *15:05:19 12/30/16*
> + [Re: Have a Happy New year all !!!](messages/324548.html) - **beachbum** *15:46:30 1/06/17*+ [Re: Have a Happy New year all !!!](messages/324528.html) - **Ted** *16:54:33 1/01/17*+ [Re: Have a Happy New year all !!!](messages/324527.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:05:23 1/01/17*+ [Re: Have a Happy New year all !!!](messages/324523.html) - **Raymond** *07:36:55 12/31/16*+ [Happy New year all !!! [PIC]](messages/324522.html) - **White Tail** *06:35:46 12/31/16*+ [Re: Have a Happy New year all !!!](messages/324521.html) - **Hairball** *16:03:38 12/30/16** [Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair... [PIC]](messages/324513.html) - **doninoz** *05:33:19 12/29/16*
> + [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324520.html) - **Raymond** *15:10:00 12/30/16*
> - [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324524.html) - **doninoz** *23:51:36 12/31/16*
> * [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324526.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:52:32 1/01/17*
> + [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324529.html) - **doninoz** *18:18:40 1/01/17*+ [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324518.html) - **Ted** *06:44:13 12/30/16*+ [Alive and Well](messages/324517.html) - **White Tail** *03:27:45 12/30/16*+ [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324516.html) - **Steve** *03:12:15 12/30/16*
> - [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324525.html) - **doninoz** *04:38:41 1/01/17*
> * [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324530.html) - **Steve** *22:47:50 1/02/17*
> + [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324533.html) - **doninoz** *11:33:36 1/03/17*+ [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324515.html) - **Anthony** *00:43:39 12/30/16*+ [Re: Alive and Well, and Still a Longhair...](messages/324514.html) - **Absalom** *21:53:17 12/29/16** [Game of Thrones](messages/324510.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:43:37 12/27/16*
> + [Re: Game of Thrones](messages/324511.html) - **michael** *06:35:37 12/28/16** [dry frizzies [PIC]](messages/324504.html) - **White Tail** *05:43:48 12/26/16*
> + [Re: dry frizzies](messages/324512.html) - **Rlgarrett36** *08:52:41 12/28/16** [Hairfreaky](messages/324502.html) - **Marco** *05:22:32 12/26/16*
> + [Re: Hairfreaky](messages/324506.html) - **Jacob** *13:56:09 12/26/16*
> - [Re: Hairfreaky](messages/324507.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:27:22 12/26/16*
> * [Why this is shocking](messages/324509.html) - **Jacob** *22:49:11 12/26/16*
> + [Re: Why this is shocking](messages/324537.html) - **elektros** *21:07:08 1/03/17** [~14 Month Update-Pressing On [PIC]](messages/324486.html) - **Ted** *19:58:48 12/23/16*
> + [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324545.html) - **nuttidave** *09:46:46 1/06/17*
> - [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324549.html) - **Ted** *20:38:27 1/06/17*+ [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324503.html) - **MG** *05:22:37 12/26/16*
> - [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324508.html) - **Ted** *22:42:18 12/26/16*+ [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324500.html) - **DavidN** *06:52:27 12/25/16*
> - [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324501.html) - **Ted** *22:39:05 12/25/16*+ [14 Months](messages/324495.html) - **White Tailw** *07:28:03 12/24/16*
> - [Re: 14 Months](messages/324497.html) - **Ted** *10:15:45 12/24/16*+ [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324494.html) - **Hairball** *06:14:45 12/24/16*
> - [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324496.html) - **Ted** *10:12:44 12/24/16*+ [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324490.html) - **Raymond** *20:49:35 12/23/16*
> - [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On](messages/324492.html) - **Ted** *21:21:21 12/23/16*+ [Re: ~14 Month Update-Pressing On (Front) [PIC]](messages/324487.html) - **Ted** *19:59:55 12/23/16** [A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.](messages/324480.html) - **Kenneth** *13:53:58 12/23/16*
> + [Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.](messages/324536.html) - **elektros** *20:56:04 1/03/17*+ [Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.](messages/324489.html) - **Ted** *20:40:15 12/23/16*
> - [You don't look 50 dude!](messages/324491.html) - **Josh** *21:12:41 12/23/16*
> * [Re: You don't look 50 dude!](messages/324493.html) - **Ted** *21:30:21 12/23/16*
> + [Keep it long and Merry Christmas!](messages/324498.html) - **Josh** *15:52:16 12/24/16*
> - [Re: Keep it long and Merry Christmas!](messages/324499.html) - **Ted** *17:58:53 12/24/16*+ [Long hair makes you look old?](messages/324485.html) - **Josh** *19:13:09 12/23/16*
> - [What I meant was](messages/324531.html) - **Kenneth** *22:47:55 1/02/17*
> * [Re: What I meant was](messages/324532.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:58:23 1/03/17*+ [Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.](messages/324483.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:07:43 12/23/16*+ [Re: A distressing urge? Thinking of cutting it.](messages/324482.html) - **Hairball** *17:56:57 12/23/16** [2 Years of Growing](messages/324474.html) - **Kyle** *14:41:49 12/22/16*
> + [Re: 2 Years of Growing](messages/324477.html) - **Raymond** *20:34:53 12/22/16*
> - [Re: 2 Years of Growing](messages/324478.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:19:34 12/23/16*+ [Re: 2 Years of Growing [PIC]](messages/324475.html) - **Jason** *14:44:32 12/22/16** [The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade](messages/324473.html) - **Josh** *14:23:12 12/22/16*
> + [Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade](messages/324810.html) - **elektros** *19:07:29 3/14/17*+ [Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade](messages/324479.html) - **Gene W** *07:53:41 12/23/16*
> - [Comparison between1967 and 1977](messages/324488.html) - **Josh** *20:25:45 12/23/16*
> * [Re: Comparison between1967 and 1977](messages/324807.html) - **Dan the Man** *17:53:28 3/13/17*- [I was comparing the 1970s to the previous decade](messages/324481.html) - **Josh** *16:32:13 12/23/16*+ [Re: The 1970s were a long hair friendly decade](messages/324476.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:55:30 12/22/16** [What's the latest on this issue?](messages/324457.html) - **Josh** *14:57:53 12/19/16*
> + [Re: What's the latest on this issue?](messages/324458.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:28:19 12/20/16*
> - [Re: What's the latest on this issue?](messages/324460.html) - **Josh** *13:37:22 12/20/16*- [Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?](messages/324459.html) - **Josh** *13:31:53 12/20/16*
> * [Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?](messages/324466.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:25:14 12/20/16*
> + [What I really meant to ask was...](messages/324468.html) - **Josh** *19:09:01 12/20/16*
> - [Re: What I really meant to ask was...](messages/324469.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *05:07:29 12/21/16*+ [Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?](messages/324467.html) - **elektros** *15:29:15 12/20/16*
> - [Re: Is this how you had to wear your hair back then?](messages/324470.html) - **Josh** *12:53:02 12/21/16** [time to grow it again [PIC]](messages/324453.html) - **Thylacine** *05:37:41 12/18/16*
> + [Re: time to grow it again](messages/324454.html) - **Raymond** *05:54:50 12/18/16*
> - [Re: time to grow it again](messages/324456.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:37:27 12/18/16*- [Re: time to grow it again [PIC]](messages/324455.html) - **Thylacine** *15:52:44 12/18/16** [current hair length](messages/324451.html) - **mikeh** *13:33:50 12/17/16** [When should I start using conditioner??](messages/324442.html) - **jimho85** *17:12:43 12/15/16*
> + [Re: When should I start using conditioner??](messages/324447.html) - **Ev** *18:26:40 12/16/16*+ [Re: When should I start using conditioner??](messages/324445.html) - **Steve** *18:25:11 12/16/16*+ [Re: When should I start using conditioner??](messages/324444.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:12:54 12/16/16** [31 month update ! [PIC]](messages/324441.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:30:06 12/15/16*
> + [Re: 31 month update !](messages/324472.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:05:36 12/22/16*+ [Re: 31 month update !](messages/324465.html) - **nuttidave** *13:39:59 12/20/16*+ [Re: 31 month update !](messages/324450.html) - **Hairball** *06:30:00 12/17/16*+ [Re: 31 month update !](messages/324443.html) - **Raymond** *18:55:27 12/15/16** [31 month update ! [PIC]](messages/324440.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:00:08 12/15/16** [Growing out](messages/324437.html) - **nuttidave** *03:35:42 12/15/16*
> + [Re: Growing out](messages/324543.html) - **Viking** *02:06:14 1/06/17*
> - [Re: Growing out](messages/324546.html) - **nuttidave** *09:46:51 1/06/17*+ [Re: Growing out](messages/324452.html) - **Jason** *13:50:54 12/17/16*
> - [Re: Growing out](messages/324461.html) - **nuttidave** *13:39:39 12/20/16*+ [Re: Growing out](messages/324449.html) - **Hairball** *06:23:06 12/17/16*
> - [Re: Growing out [PIC]](messages/324462.html) - **nuttidave** *13:39:44 12/20/16*
> * [Re: Growing out](messages/324484.html) - **Oren** *18:49:32 12/23/16*
> + [Re: Growing out](messages/324505.html) - **nuttidave** *10:49:40 12/26/16*+ [Re: Growing out](messages/324446.html) - **Steve** *18:25:16 12/16/16*
> - [Re: Growing out](messages/324463.html) - **nuttidave** *13:39:49 12/20/16*+ [Re: Growing out](messages/324438.html) - **Rul** *07:17:45 12/15/16*
> - [Re: Growing out](messages/324464.html) - **nuttidave** *13:39:54 12/20/16** [Washing Hair with soap (video) [PIC]](messages/324435.html) - **PhilipZ** *11:49:40 12/12/16*
> + [what are adidas neo shoes](messages/324565.html) - **what are adidas neo shoes** *10:42:56 1/14/17*
> - [Re: what are adidas neo shoes](messages/324567.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:10:35 1/18/17*+ [Re: Washing Hair with soap (video)](messages/324448.html) - **Hairball** *06:12:21 12/17/16*
> - [Re: Washing Hair with soap (video)](messages/324471.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:51:25 12/22/16*+ [Re: Washing Hair with soap (video)](messages/324436.html) - **sj** *11:29:18 12/13/16*
> - [Re: Washing Hair with soap (video)](messages/324439.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:23:46 12/15/16** [Long hair Calendar](messages/324420.html) - **Marco** *03:00:51 12/02/16*
> + [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324431.html) - **Just Carol** *10:51:51 12/03/16*+ [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324427.html) - **Hairball** *15:06:26 12/02/16*
> - [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324432.html) - **Marco** *13:16:17 12/03/16*- [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324429.html) - **Todd** *09:11:25 12/03/16*+ [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324426.html) - **elektros** *12:03:09 12/02/16*
> - [Re: Long hair Calendar](messages/324430.html) - **Just Carol** *10:42:51 12/03/16** [A Question on Future Baldness [PIC]](messages/324414.html) - **Joe** *11:30:35 12/01/16*
> + [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324434.html) - **Eric** *23:45:50 12/03/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324428.html) - **Just Carol** *00:21:08 12/03/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324423.html) - **elektros** *11:33:00 12/02/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324422.html) - **Joe** *10:10:28 12/02/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324421.html) - **CA831** *09:32:22 12/02/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324419.html) - **Raymond** *21:33:30 12/01/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324418.html) - **yoshiki** *17:43:09 12/01/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324417.html) - **Marco** *17:43:04 12/01/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324416.html) - **Steve** *14:24:53 12/01/16*+ [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324415.html) - **Markus** *12:34:15 12/01/16*
> - [Re: A Question on Future Baldness](messages/324760.html) - **SavageHair** *05:25:29 3/05/17** [Long haired Unicyclist](messages/324407.html) - **Marco** *17:10:54 11/29/16*
> + [Re: Long haired Unicyclist](messages/324413.html) - **Markus** *07:49:53 12/01/16** [The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324405.html) - **Wade Garret** *16:52:46 11/29/16*
> + [Re: The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324425.html) - **elektros** *11:56:07 12/02/16*+ [Re: The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324409.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:42:21 11/30/16*
> - [Re: The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324410.html) - **Anthony** *09:26:07 11/30/16*
> * [Re: The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324411.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:43:59 11/30/16*+ [Re: The Battle of being a Longhair](messages/324406.html) - **Hairball** *17:00:55 11/29/16** [November 2016 update [PIC]](messages/324394.html) - **dgnick** *00:19:11 11/28/16*
> + [Re: November 2016 update](messages/324399.html) - **Anthony** *13:02:22 11/28/16*+ [Re: November 2016 update](messages/324398.html) - **steve** *09:21:57 11/28/16*+ [Re: November 2016 update](messages/324397.html) - **Markus** *06:13:23 11/28/16*+ [Re: November 2016 update](messages/324396.html) - **Raymond** *06:05:28 11/28/16*+ [Re: November 2016 update](messages/324395.html) - **Absalom** *00:20:35 11/28/16** [Something that was posted before (sort of)](messages/324388.html) - **Giacco** *00:42:02 11/26/16*
> + [Re: Something that was posted before (sort of)](messages/324424.html) - **elektros** *11:41:59 12/02/16*+ [Re: Something that was posted before (sort of)](messages/324390.html) - **Anthony** *09:04:27 11/26/16*+ [Re: Something that was posted before (sort of)](messages/324389.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:26:32 11/26/16** [Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324381.html) - **Josh** *15:02:02 11/22/16*
> + [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324386.html) - **CA831** *12:41:31 11/24/16*+ [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324382.html) - **Anthony** *16:51:19 11/22/16*
> - [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324383.html) - **Josh** *12:08:57 11/23/16*
> * [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324385.html) - **CA831** *12:39:25 11/24/16*
> + [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324387.html) - **Josh** *15:24:33 11/25/16*
> - [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324391.html) - **Anthony** *09:10:22 11/26/16*
> * [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324392.html) - **Josh** *16:14:15 11/26/16*
> + [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324393.html) - **Anthony** *01:28:12 11/27/16*
> - [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324401.html) - **Josh** *18:04:19 11/28/16*
> * [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324404.html) - **Anthony** *15:14:01 11/29/16*- [Re: Check out what this dude says here about Masculinity](messages/324400.html) - **steve** *18:04:14 11/28/16*
> * [''it's the economy, stupid''](messages/324403.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:17:03 11/29/16*
> + [Re: ''it's the economy, stupid''](messages/324412.html) - **steve** *11:34:35 11/30/16** [''it's the economy, stupid''](messages/324402.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *14:06:03 11/29/16** [My 10 month update [PIC]](messages/324377.html) - **jimho85** *03:47:12 11/20/16*
> + [Re: My 10 month update](messages/324378.html) - **Raymond** *05:19:15 11/20/16** [Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone?? [PIC]](messages/324371.html) - **jimho85** *11:19:43 11/19/16*
> + [Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone??](messages/324384.html) - **Giacco** *01:24:19 11/24/16*+ [Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone??](messages/324375.html) - **MG** *22:09:32 11/19/16*+ [Re: Do you have a special ''hair crush'' on someone??](messages/324372.html) - **Raymond** *20:27:57 11/19/16** [Question for you gentlemen](messages/324357.html) - **Josh** *13:45:39 11/15/16*
> + [Re: Question for you gentlemen [PIC]](messages/324376.html) - **CEM.** *00:27:26 11/20/16*
> - [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324379.html) - **Ted** *14:09:21 11/20/16*
> * [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324380.html) - **CEM.** *16:31:22 11/21/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324369.html) - **elektros** *11:02:34 11/17/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324368.html) - **Guilherme S.** *15:51:10 11/16/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324366.html) - **CA831** *10:20:22 11/16/16*
> - [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324367.html) - **MG** *10:39:40 11/16/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324365.html) - **Deanof316** *09:46:46 11/16/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324364.html) - **Anthony** *04:31:01 11/16/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324363.html) - **MG** *23:29:01 11/15/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324362.html) - **Trolleypup** *18:52:21 11/15/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324361.html) - **Cameron** *17:51:50 11/15/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324360.html) - **Raymond** *17:37:54 11/15/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324359.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:23:56 11/15/16*+ [Re: Question for you gentlemen](messages/324358.html) - **mikh** *15:34:46 11/15/16** [2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut [PIC]](messages/324350.html) - **Patrick Brands** *07:03:10 11/14/16*
> + [Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut](messages/324356.html) - **beachbum** *12:09:56 11/15/16*+ [Better Pic of Progress [PIC]](messages/324354.html) - **Patrick Brands** *07:20:01 11/15/16*
> - [Re: Better Pic of Progress](messages/324370.html) - **Anthony** *12:35:47 11/17/16*+ [Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut](messages/324353.html) - **Raymond** *21:28:41 11/14/16*
> - [Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut](messages/324355.html) - **Patrick Brands** *09:01:21 11/15/16*+ [Re: 2 and a half year progress from a buzzcut](messages/324351.html) - **MG** *09:27:38 11/14/16** [Growing my hair. [PIC]](messages/324340.html) - **Skyro** *09:21:13 11/11/16*
> + [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324352.html) - **Steve** *12:16:57 11/14/16*+ [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324348.html) - **Hairball** *05:02:44 11/12/16*+ [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324347.html) - **MG** *22:28:44 11/11/16*+ [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324345.html) - **Raymond** *21:02:48 11/11/16*+ [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324344.html) - **Mxt** *20:33:06 11/11/16*+ [Re: Growing my hair.](messages/324341.html) - **Ted** *16:33:26 11/11/16** [Braid Combo Thing... [PIC]](messages/324337.html) - **David Lee** *03:12:20 11/11/16*
> + [Re: Braid Combo Thing...](messages/324349.html) - **Tes** *08:49:21 11/13/16*+ [Re: Braid Combo Thing...](messages/324346.html) - **MG** *22:21:18 11/11/16*+ [Re: Braid Combo Thing...](messages/324343.html) - **Ted** *16:36:43 11/11/16*+ [Re: Braid Combo Thing...](messages/324339.html) - **Raymond** *06:47:09 11/11/16*+ [Re: Braid Combo Thing...](messages/324338.html) - **Absalom** *04:33:14 11/11/16** [Down by the river... [PIC]](messages/324326.html) - **Trolleypup** *00:15:53 11/08/16*
> + [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324335.html) - **Karsten** *02:54:40 11/09/16*+ [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324334.html) - **Absalom** *23:54:24 11/08/16*
> - [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324336.html) - **Trolleypup** *22:29:06 11/09/16*+ [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324333.html) - **Ted** *20:34:10 11/08/16*+ [Really cool shot (n/t)](messages/324329.html) - **Jarvis** *11:21:06 11/08/16*
> - [Re: Really cool shot (n/t)](messages/324330.html) - **Trolleypup** *17:08:12 11/08/16*+ [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324328.html) - **Raymond** *05:17:15 11/08/16*
> - [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324331.html) - **Trolleypup** *17:10:12 11/08/16*+ [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324327.html) - **Markus** *04:08:01 11/08/16*
> - [Re: Down by the river...](messages/324332.html) - **Trolleypup** *17:14:23 11/08/16** [Half Pony-Tail and length from the back... [PIC]](messages/324318.html) - **David Lee** *07:40:49 11/06/16*
> + [Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back...](messages/324342.html) - **Ted** *16:35:17 11/11/16*+ [Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back...](messages/324323.html) - **Markus** *06:15:59 11/07/16*+ [Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back...](messages/324320.html) - **Raymond** *05:03:09 11/07/16*
> - [Re: Half Pony-Tail and length from the back...](messages/324321.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:03:20 11/07/16** [Floor length](messages/324306.html) - **Marco** *17:31:20 11/02/16*
> + [Re: Floor length](messages/324322.html) - **Markus** *06:10:27 11/07/16*+ [Re: Floor length](messages/324311.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:01:59 11/04/16*
> - [Re: Floor length](messages/324317.html) - **liu22timilman** *04:58:51 11/06/16*+ [Re: Floor length](messages/324309.html) - **Jacob** *03:06:30 11/03/16** [64 Month update [PIC]](messages/324290.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:43:40 11/01/16*
> + [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324307.html) - **Marco** *17:31:25 11/02/16*
> - [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324316.html) - **PhilipZ** *18:20:40 11/05/16*+ [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324298.html) - **Raymond** *23:09:53 11/01/16*
> - [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324305.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:03:44 11/02/16*
> * [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324310.html) - **Raymond** *22:38:42 11/03/16*
> + [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324373.html) - **PhilipZ** *20:30:08 11/19/16** [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324308.html) - **Trolleypup** *19:49:23 11/02/16*
> + [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324374.html) - **PhilipZ** *20:35:02 11/19/16*+ [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324296.html) - **Trolleypup** *18:38:22 11/01/16*
> - [Thanks, Trolleypup! (n/t)](messages/324301.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:56:42 11/02/16*+ [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324294.html) - **Hairball** *15:16:51 11/01/16*
> - [Re: 64 Month update](messages/324300.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:55:46 11/02/16** [Happy Halloween [PIC]](messages/324286.html) - **trolleypup** *22:45:06 10/31/16*
> + [Re: Happy Halloween [PIC]](messages/324312.html) - **Jarvis** *06:58:41 11/04/16*
> - [And Another Picture [PIC]](messages/324314.html) - **Jarvis** *07:03:23 11/04/16*
> * [Re: And Another Picture](messages/324315.html) - **trolleypup** *18:20:03 11/04/16*+ [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324297.html) - **Ted** *22:14:02 11/01/16*
> - [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324324.html) - **Trolleypup** *00:09:57 11/08/16*+ [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324292.html) - **PhilipZ** *13:20:39 11/01/16*
> - [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324325.html) - **Trolleypup** *00:11:44 11/08/16*+ [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324291.html) - **Marco** *13:02:44 11/01/16*
> - [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324295.html) - **trolleypup** *18:01:00 11/01/16*+ [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324289.html) - **Mark** *05:19:36 11/01/16*+ [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324287.html) - **MG** *23:12:01 10/31/16*
> - [Re: Happy Halloween](messages/324288.html) - **trolleypup** *23:20:05 10/31/16** [Current Progress... [PIC]](messages/324281.html) - **David Lee** *10:00:54 10/25/16*
> + [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324284.html) - **Patrick Brands** *08:57:41 10/28/16*+ [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324283.html) - **Raymond** *06:19:53 10/26/16*+ [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324282.html) - **sj** *16:49:35 10/25/16** [Update (PIC)](messages/324265.html) - **Mark** *00:06:34 10/23/16*
> + [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324293.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:46:32 11/01/16*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324279.html) - **Jason** *09:45:51 10/24/16*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324271.html) - **MG** *09:00:26 10/23/16*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324280.html) - **Mark** *14:47:19 10/24/16*+ [Re: Update (PIC) [PIC]](messages/324268.html) - **Hairball** *06:24:05 10/23/16*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324270.html) - **Mark** *07:42:54 10/23/16*+ [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324266.html) - **Absalom** *02:48:25 10/23/16*
> - [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324269.html) - **Mark** *06:46:28 10/23/16*
> * [Re: Update (PIC)](messages/324272.html) - **Todd** *13:24:58 10/23/16** [Back after a long time [PIC]](messages/324264.html) - **Giacco** *19:16:48 10/22/16*
> + [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324278.html) - **Jason** *09:44:04 10/24/16*+ [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324277.html) - **Rul** *06:15:22 10/24/16*+ [Re: Back after a long time [PIC]](messages/324267.html) - **Hairball** *06:12:20 10/23/16*
> - [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324274.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *15:39:53 10/23/16*
> * [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324276.html) - **Hairball** *16:58:03 10/23/16*- [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324273.html) - **Giacco** *14:59:47 10/23/16*
> * [Re: Back after a long time](messages/324275.html) - **Hairball** *16:54:02 10/23/16** [7 months progress [PIC]](messages/324255.html) - **Leapy** *09:00:15 10/18/16*
> + [Re: 7 months progress](messages/324261.html) - **Guilherme S.** *14:19:49 10/19/16*+ [Re: 7 months progress](messages/324260.html) - **Steve** *09:48:54 10/19/16*+ [Re: 7 months progress](messages/324259.html) - **Raymond** *23:29:30 10/18/16*+ [Re: 7 months progress](messages/324257.html) - **beachbum** *17:32:11 10/18/16*
> - [Re: 7 months progress [PIC]](messages/324258.html) - **Leapy** *17:51:43 10/18/16** [29 month progress from a buzzcut :) [PIC]](messages/324229.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:46:45 10/12/16*
> + [Long hair suits you very well (N/T)](messages/324313.html) - **Jarvis** *07:01:21 11/04/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :) [PIC]](messages/324285.html) - **Patrick Brands** *08:59:00 10/28/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324263.html) - **Alex** *20:12:08 10/21/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324256.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:52:50 10/18/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324254.html) - **Rul** *21:21:53 10/16/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324252.html) - **Tes** *20:32:33 10/15/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324251.html) - **Leapy** *20:32:28 10/15/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324241.html) - **Steve** *09:42:54 10/13/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324240.html) - **Anthony** *05:31:24 10/13/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324237.html) - **Absalom** *23:23:49 10/12/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324234.html) - **Raymond** *20:32:36 10/12/16*+ [Re: 29 month progress from a buzzcut :)](messages/324232.html) - **Trolleypup** *18:30:19 10/12/16** [Current Progress... [PIC]](messages/324213.html) - **David Lee** *05:58:40 10/11/16*
> + [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324238.html) - **Absalom** *23:26:13 10/12/16*+ [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324231.html) - **Patrick Brands** *16:23:50 10/12/16*+ [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324221.html) - **Ted** *16:28:27 10/11/16*+ [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324214.html) - **David Lee** *06:16:03 10/11/16*
> - [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324223.html) - **Ted** *16:38:38 10/11/16*- [Re: Current Progress...](messages/324216.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:48:11 10/11/16** [I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324210.html) - **CarpeMors** *18:43:10 10/10/16*
> + [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324219.html) - **Bob** *13:36:54 10/11/16*
> - [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324242.html) - **CarpeMors** *10:46:45 10/13/16*+ [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324217.html) - **elektros** *10:47:39 10/11/16*
> - [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324243.html) - **CarpeMors** *10:50:03 10/13/16*- [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324218.html) - **Steve** *12:40:34 10/11/16*
> * [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324225.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *17:08:36 10/11/16*
> + [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324227.html) - **elektros** *08:39:19 10/12/16*
> - [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324262.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *18:32:50 10/21/16*- [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324228.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:58:36 10/12/16*
> * [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324244.html) - **CarpeMors** *10:56:05 10/13/16*
> + [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324247.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *13:22:17 10/13/16*
> - [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324250.html) - **CarpeMors** *19:40:45 10/15/16*+ [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324212.html) - **Anthony** *03:35:24 10/11/16*
> - [Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324245.html) - **CarpeMors** *11:01:23 10/13/16*+ [ro,Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324211.html) - **Raymond** *20:31:32 10/10/16*
> - [Re: ro,Re: I really wish I hadn't cut off my hair...](messages/324246.html) - **CarpeMors** *11:03:44 10/13/16** [Hairstyle recommendation [PIC]](messages/324199.html) - **pclisan** *09:47:17 10/08/16*
> + [Re: Hairstyle recommendation](messages/324798.html) - **Dan the Man** *21:08:59 3/12/17*+ [Re: Hairstyle recommendation](messages/324203.html) - **Richard.B** *05:54:54 10/09/16*+ [Re: Hairstyle recommendation](messages/324202.html) - **Raymond** *20:13:06 10/08/16*+ [Re: Hairstyle recommendation](messages/324200.html) - **Ted** *15:17:59 10/08/16** [1 Year Update [PIC]](messages/324185.html) - **Ted** *20:30:23 10/06/16*
> + [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324239.html) - **Absalom** *23:28:25 10/12/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324249.html) - **Ted** *18:02:53 10/13/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324233.html) - **A.D.** *19:36:05 10/12/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324236.html) - **Ted** *21:14:32 10/12/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324230.html) - **BruceJ** *15:08:45 10/12/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324235.html) - **Ted** *20:53:05 10/12/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324215.html) - **David Lee** *06:28:48 10/11/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324222.html) - **Ted** *16:36:54 10/11/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324208.html) - **Rktect** *16:21:04 10/10/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324220.html) - **Ted** *16:23:01 10/11/16*
> * [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324248.html) - **Rktect** *14:20:21 10/13/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324205.html) - **DavidN** *03:12:03 10/10/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324207.html) - **Ted** *07:17:04 10/10/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324204.html) - **The Spaf Man** *17:21:19 10/09/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324206.html) - **Ted** *07:12:39 10/10/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324195.html) - **Hairball** *11:53:59 10/07/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324198.html) - **Ted** *09:41:18 10/08/16*
> * [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324201.html) - **Ted** *17:55:41 10/08/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324194.html) - **Anthony** *11:42:25 10/07/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324197.html) - **Ted** *09:09:08 10/08/16*+ [Re: 1 Year](messages/324193.html) - **White Tail** *08:41:02 10/07/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year](messages/324196.html) - **Ted** *08:27:56 10/08/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324187.html) - **Raymond** *21:03:15 10/06/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324191.html) - **Ted** *06:50:33 10/07/16*+ [Re: 1 Year Update [PIC]](messages/324186.html) - **Ted** *20:32:07 10/06/16*
> - [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324190.html) - **doninoz** *21:46:54 10/06/16*
> * [Re: 1 Year Update](messages/324192.html) - **Ted** *06:54:45 10/07/16** [You Can Never Cut Your Hair](messages/324174.html) - **Paul** *15:14:59 10/04/16** [Hello everybody](messages/324163.html) - **Riko** *03:25:16 10/04/16*
> + [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324253.html) - **Tes** *20:32:38 10/15/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324181.html) - **Anthony** *03:08:39 10/06/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324178.html) - **Guilherme S.** *19:24:30 10/04/16*
> - [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324179.html) - **Riko** *04:37:01 10/05/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324176.html) - **Bob** *19:24:20 10/04/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324171.html) - **Yadgar** *09:27:09 10/04/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324170.html) - **Raymond** *06:18:37 10/04/16*
> - [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324172.html) - **Riko** *11:00:22 10/04/16*+ [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324165.html) - **Absalom** *03:49:02 10/04/16*
> - [Re: Hello everybody](messages/324169.html) - **Riko** *04:26:46 10/04/16** [Update and Photo [PIC]](messages/324160.html) - **doninoz** *17:25:13 10/03/16*
> + [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324226.html) - **Ted** *20:41:11 10/11/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324188.html) - **Tristan** *21:26:12 10/06/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324189.html) - **doninoz** *21:43:56 10/06/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324182.html) - **Walter Scott** *12:12:17 10/06/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324184.html) - **doninoz** *16:50:38 10/06/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324180.html) - **Anthony** *06:24:32 10/05/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324183.html) - **doninoz** *16:49:21 10/06/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324177.html) - **Bob** *19:24:25 10/04/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324175.html) - **James** *18:35:15 10/04/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324168.html) - **Riko** *04:25:21 10/04/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324173.html) - **doninoz** *11:43:23 10/04/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324164.html) - **Absalom** *03:47:06 10/04/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324166.html) - **doninoz** *04:09:59 10/04/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324162.html) - **Raymond** *22:33:23 10/03/16*
> - [Re: Update and Photo](messages/324167.html) - **doninoz** *04:15:45 10/04/16*+ [Re: Update and Photo [PIC]](messages/324161.html) - **doninoz** *17:27:40 10/03/16** [''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''](messages/324155.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:04:45 10/02/16*
> + [Re: ''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''](messages/324157.html) - **elektros** *09:09:26 10/03/16*
> - [Re: ''You should get a haircut you look like a girl''](messages/324159.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:46:16 10/03/16** [5 things to stop telling boys](messages/324154.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:43:01 10/02/16*
> + [Re: 5 things to stop telling boys](messages/324799.html) - **Dan the Man** *21:09:04 3/12/17*+ [Re: 5 things to stop telling boys](messages/324158.html) - **elektros** *09:21:59 10/03/16** [Reflections on the Journey](messages/324149.html) - **Goku** *09:21:08 9/28/16*
> + [Re: Reflections on the Journey](messages/324153.html) - **Rani** *08:10:27 10/01/16*+ [Re: Reflections on the Journey](messages/324151.html) - **Anthony** *10:22:50 9/28/16*+ [Re: Reflections on the Journey](messages/324150.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:39:01 9/28/16** [Amazing Mane on a Horse](messages/324147.html) - **Anthony** *11:29:52 9/24/16*
> + [Re: Amazing Mane on a Horse](messages/324156.html) - **Don** *18:09:32 10/02/16** [Long Hair Inspiration: Carl McCoy](messages/324146.html) - **Paul** *05:42:16 9/24/16** [almost 3-year update [PIC]](messages/324113.html) - **Steve** *11:57:32 9/20/16*
> + [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324142.html) - **Validus** *09:49:49 9/23/16*
> - [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324145.html) - **steve** *17:38:54 9/23/16*+ [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324130.html) - **Tristan** *20:55:08 9/21/16*+ [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324124.html) - **Raymond** *07:28:54 9/21/16*
> - [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324127.html) - **Steve** *10:33:06 9/21/16*+ [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324114.html) - **Leapy** *13:55:36 9/20/16*
> - [Re: almost 3-year update](messages/324126.html) - **steve** *10:31:55 9/21/16** [Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324100.html) - **WadeGarret** *03:14:03 9/19/16*
> + [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324224.html) - **Bob** *17:04:03 10/11/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324148.html) - **Goku** *15:03:22 9/26/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324139.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *08:34:40 9/23/16*
> - [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324152.html) - **trolleypup** *18:10:24 9/29/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324112.html) - **Steve** *11:57:27 9/20/16*
> - [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324137.html) - **WadeGarret78** *03:11:53 9/23/16*
> * [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324138.html) - **Gene W** *07:59:12 9/23/16*- [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324129.html) - **trolleypup** *17:50:09 9/21/16*
> * [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324131.html) - **BruceJ** *07:28:35 9/22/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324107.html) - **Trolleypup** *20:03:51 9/19/16*
> - [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324132.html) - **BruceJ** *07:36:04 9/22/16*+ [To Be oe Not to Be....](messages/324104.html) - **White Tail** *10:21:45 9/19/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324103.html) - **Gene W** *06:54:33 9/19/16*
> - [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324106.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:51:03 9/19/16*
> * [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324800.html) - **Dan the Man** *21:09:09 3/12/17*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324102.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:02:35 9/19/16*+ [Re: Need some encouragement brothers.](messages/324101.html) - **Anthony** *04:00:30 9/19/16** [trying to grow long hair [PIC]](messages/324092.html) - **Kevin** *14:24:33 9/18/16*
> + [Re: trying to grow long hair](messages/324117.html) - **Ted** *18:09:52 9/20/16*+ [Re: trying to grow long hair](messages/324097.html) - **Guilherme S.** *16:23:12 9/18/16*+ [Re: trying to grow long hair](messages/324094.html) - **Leapy** *15:02:52 9/18/16** [knot [PIC]](messages/324088.html) - **John** *06:03:57 9/18/16*
> + [Re: knot](messages/324141.html) - **John** *09:45:31 9/23/16*
> - [Re: knot](messages/324143.html) - **Validus** *09:54:42 9/23/16*
> * [Re: knot](messages/324144.html) - **John** *12:59:48 9/23/16*+ [No.](messages/324105.html) - **Validus** *12:02:20 9/19/16*
> - [Re: No.](messages/324108.html) - **John** *09:27:20 9/20/16*+ [Re: knot](messages/324098.html) - **Darrin** *17:36:25 9/18/16*
> - [Re: knot](messages/324109.html) - **John** *09:27:25 9/20/16*- [This post has the solutioin.](messages/324099.html) - **JustCarol** *21:24:18 9/18/16*
> * [Re: This post has the solutioin.](messages/324110.html) - **John** *09:27:30 9/20/16*+ [Re: knot](messages/324091.html) - **Anthony** *11:39:57 9/18/16*
> - [Re: knot](messages/324093.html) - **lipwak** *14:24:38 9/18/16*
> * [Re: knot](messages/324135.html) - **Steve** *03:11:41 9/23/16*+ [Re: knot](messages/324089.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *06:50:37 9/18/16*
> - [Re: knot](messages/324090.html) - **lipwak** *10:32:52 9/18/16*
> * [Re: knot](messages/324140.html) - **Steve** *09:34:28 9/23/16** [New here](messages/324084.html) - **lordpeich** *06:38:49 9/17/16*
> + [Re: New here](messages/324136.html) - **Steve** *03:11:48 9/23/16*+ [Re: New here](messages/324087.html) - **Raymond** *21:16:34 9/17/16*+ [Re: New here](messages/324086.html) - **Leapy** *10:13:17 9/17/16*+ [Re: New here](messages/324085.html) - **Anthony** *08:45:25 9/17/16** [6 months update [PIC] [PIC]](messages/324083.html) - **Leapy** *03:22:18 9/17/16*
> + [Re: 6 months update](messages/324111.html) - **steve** *11:57:22 9/20/16** [8 months update. The MacGyver mullet! [PIC]](messages/324077.html) - **jimho85** *11:23:30 9/16/16*
> + [Re: 8 months update. The MacGyver mullet!](messages/324122.html) - **Ted** *18:29:23 9/20/16*+ [Re: 8 months update. The MacGyver mullet!](messages/324082.html) - **Raymond** *22:55:15 9/16/16** [3 years [PIC]](messages/324067.html) - **Anthony** *08:19:28 9/15/16*
> + [Re: 3 years](messages/324133.html) - **BruceJ** *12:39:14 9/22/16*
> - [Re: 3 years](messages/324134.html) - **Anthony** *01:02:26 9/23/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324115.html) - **Ted** *17:21:16 9/20/16*
> - [Re: 3 years](messages/324123.html) - **Anthony** *06:37:05 9/21/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324096.html) - **A.D.** *16:23:07 9/18/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324080.html) - **Goku** *18:40:08 9/16/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324078.html) - **James** *15:42:53 9/16/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324074.html) - **Hairball** *17:50:16 9/15/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324073.html) - **Steve** *15:53:31 9/15/16*
> - [Re: 3 years](messages/324076.html) - **Anthony** *01:55:19 9/16/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324072.html) - **Absalom** *15:41:32 9/15/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324069.html) - **Jason** *12:37:57 9/15/16*
> - [Re: 3 years](messages/324071.html) - **Anthony** *13:53:47 9/15/16*+ [Re: 3 years](messages/324068.html) - **Validus** *11:06:05 9/15/16** [28 months under my belt :) [PIC]](messages/324054.html) - **Patrick Brands** *21:32:20 9/11/16*
> + [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324121.html) - **Ted** *18:25:31 9/20/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324081.html) - **Goku** *18:40:36 9/16/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324075.html) - **Hairball** *17:52:44 9/15/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324065.html) - **Leapy** *05:22:39 9/14/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324064.html) - **Tes** *02:41:44 9/14/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324063.html) - **Tristan** *22:02:55 9/13/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324058.html) - **Validus** *07:23:15 9/13/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324057.html) - **Raymond** *21:51:44 9/12/16*+ [Re: 28 months under my belt :)](messages/324056.html) - **Mike B** *12:23:35 9/12/16** [Maintaining a length](messages/324036.html) - **Darrin** *07:10:27 9/10/16*
> + [Re: Maintaining a length](messages/324066.html) - **Rktect** *13:23:54 9/14/16** [62 Month Hair Update [PIC]](messages/324028.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:39:23 9/09/16*
> + [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324061.html) - **Validus** *11:16:12 9/13/16*+ [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324055.html) - **J.M.M.** *01:11:14 9/12/16*+ [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324051.html) - **Hairball** *05:53:05 9/11/16*+ [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324050.html) - **Longhairedone Steve** *15:52:09 9/10/16*+ [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324030.html) - **Jason** *11:24:39 9/09/16*
> - [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324053.html) - **PhilipZ** *10:49:30 9/11/16*
> * [Re: 62 Month Hair Update](messages/324070.html) - **Jason** *12:48:27 9/15/16** [Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324016.html) - **white mane** *19:11:31 9/08/16*
> + [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324116.html) - **Ted** *17:25:14 9/20/16*
> - [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324299.html) - **white mane** *14:54:49 11/02/16*+ [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324060.html) - **Validus** *11:15:17 9/13/16*
> - [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324302.html) - **white mane** *14:57:18 11/02/16*+ [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324022.html) - **Markus** *04:53:38 9/09/16*
> - [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324303.html) - **white mane** *14:58:46 11/02/16*+ [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324021.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:22:24 9/09/16*
> - [Re: Me and Chief Knok-A-Homa](messages/324304.html) - **white mane** *15:01:07 11/02/16** [Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324014.html) - **radiomask** *17:20:52 9/08/16*
> + [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324059.html) - **Validus** *10:48:42 9/13/16*+ [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324045.html) - **A.D.** *11:16:19 9/10/16*+ [Keep BOTH, she'll get over it (no text)!](messages/324020.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:18:56 9/09/16*+ [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324019.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *23:13:22 9/08/16*+ [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324018.html) - **MG** *20:56:50 9/08/16*+ [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324017.html) - **Raymond** *19:59:43 9/08/16*+ [Re: Keep the beard or the hair?](messages/324015.html) - **Darrin** *18:37:36 9/08/16** [It's done](messages/324011.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:54:06 9/07/16*
> + [Re: It's done](messages/324118.html) - **Ted** *18:13:40 9/20/16*
> - [Re: It's done](messages/324125.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:43:07 9/21/16*
> * [Re: It's done](messages/324128.html) - **Ted** *17:22:31 9/21/16*+ [Re: It's done](messages/324046.html) - **A.D.** *11:22:25 9/10/16*
> - [Re: It's done](messages/324047.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *12:07:46 9/10/16*
> * [Re: It's done](messages/324048.html) - **Darrin** *13:17:47 9/10/16*+ [Re: It's done](messages/324033.html) - **MG** *16:41:51 9/09/16*+ [Re: It's done](messages/324031.html) - **Validus** *12:59:58 9/09/16*
> - [Re: It's done](messages/324034.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *20:10:18 9/09/16** [Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324000.html) - **Jason** *16:47:29 9/07/16*
> + [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324024.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:07:11 9/09/16*+ [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324023.html) - **Validus** *06:10:37 9/09/16*
> - [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324027.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:15:25 9/09/16*+ [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324013.html) - **Raymond** *06:49:00 9/08/16*
> - [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324026.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:12:48 9/09/16*+ [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324001.html) - **Hairball** *18:25:12 9/07/16*
> - [Re: Welcome PhilipZ!](messages/324025.html) - **PhilipZ** *08:10:45 9/09/16** [Under Cover Long Hair aspiring Rock Star - Age 32.](messages/323997.html) - **Wade Garret** *09:51:56 9/07/16*
> + [Re: Under Cover Long Hair aspiring Rock Star - Age 32.](messages/324010.html) - **Trolleypup** *21:09:36 9/07/16** [What a difference! [PIC]](messages/323990.html) - **A.D.** *14:07:43 9/06/16*
> + [Re: What a difference! [PIC]](messages/323991.html) - **A.D.** *14:10:08 9/06/16*
> - [Re: What a difference!](messages/324119.html) - **Ted** *18:18:59 9/20/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/324052.html) - **Validus** *09:58:29 9/11/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324095.html) - **A.D.** *16:23:02 9/18/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/324035.html) - **Longhairedone Steve** *05:10:04 9/10/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324044.html) - **A.D.** *11:12:09 9/10/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/324012.html) - **Raymond** *23:20:55 9/07/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324043.html) - **A.D.** *11:10:09 9/10/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/323999.html) - **Goku** *15:50:55 9/07/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324042.html) - **A.D.** *11:06:40 9/10/16*
> + [Re: What a difference!](messages/324079.html) - **Goku** *18:39:38 9/16/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/323996.html) - **Absalom** *04:54:44 9/07/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324041.html) - **A.D.** *11:04:33 9/10/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/323995.html) - **Leapy** *03:18:06 9/07/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324040.html) - **A.D.** *11:01:42 9/10/16*- [Re: What a difference!](messages/323992.html) - **MG** *15:53:40 9/06/16*
> * [Re: What a difference!](messages/324039.html) - **A.D.** *10:59:28 9/10/16** [Re: What a difference!](messages/323993.html) - **Darrin** *16:02:57 9/06/16*
> + [Re: What a difference!](messages/324038.html) - **A.D.** *10:53:59 9/10/16*
> - [Re: What a difference!](messages/324049.html) - **Darrin** *13:25:18 9/10/16** [The 1970s are back!](messages/323984.html) - **Paul** *12:59:33 9/05/16*
> + [Re: The 1970s are back!](messages/323989.html) - **Validus** *08:01:43 9/06/16** [2 month update [PIC]](messages/323972.html) - **Aeyrim** *06:05:20 9/05/16*
> + [Re: 2 month update](messages/323985.html) - **Leapy** *12:59:39 9/05/16*
> - [Re: 2 month update](messages/324003.html) - **aeyrim** *18:44:37 9/07/16*+ [Re: 2 month update](messages/323982.html) - **Validus** *10:52:21 9/05/16*
> - [Re: 2 month update](messages/324004.html) - **aeyrim** *18:44:42 9/07/16*+ [Re: 2 month update](messages/323976.html) - **Tristan** *09:08:54 9/05/16*
> - [Re: 2 month update [PIC]](messages/324002.html) - **Aeyrim** *18:44:32 9/07/16*
> * [Re: 2 month update](messages/324120.html) - **Ted** *18:22:24 9/20/16** [Re: 2 month update](messages/324009.html) - **Validus** *20:53:43 9/07/16*+ [Re: 2 month update](messages/323974.html) - **Raymond** *06:56:25 9/05/16*
> - [Re: 2 month update](messages/324005.html) - **aeyrim** *18:44:47 9/07/16** [O/T - Facebook [PIC]](messages/323941.html) - **Validus** *08:52:55 9/02/16*
> + [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323994.html) - **Paul** *16:59:08 9/06/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323998.html) - **Validus** *12:49:57 9/07/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323971.html) - **Tristan** *08:59:30 9/04/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323980.html) - **Validus** *10:40:39 9/05/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323988.html) - **Tristan** *20:05:07 9/05/16*- [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323973.html) - **Hairball** *06:17:11 9/05/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323975.html) - **Tristan** *09:02:43 9/05/16*
> + [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323977.html) - **Hairball** *09:54:03 9/05/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323983.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:15:40 9/05/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323986.html) - **Validus** *14:19:13 9/05/16*- [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323981.html) - **Validus** *10:48:44 9/05/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323987.html) - **Hairball** *17:04:30 9/05/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323970.html) - **Raymond** *21:42:30 9/03/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook [PIC]](messages/323979.html) - **Validus** *10:31:47 9/05/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323952.html) - **Ken in SF** *07:05:04 9/03/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323969.html) - **Yadgar** *19:09:48 9/03/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323978.html) - **Validus** *10:27:46 9/05/16*- [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323960.html) - **Validus** *08:42:50 9/03/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323968.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:40:56 9/03/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323950.html) - **Hairball** *06:12:21 9/03/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323959.html) - **Validus** *08:35:06 9/03/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323966.html) - **Hairball** *10:53:20 9/03/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323949.html) - **Jason** *05:34:02 9/03/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323958.html) - **Validus** *08:26:36 9/03/16*+ [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323948.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *21:23:23 9/02/16*
> - [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323957.html) - **Validus** *08:22:39 9/03/16*
> * [Re: O/T - Facebook](messages/323967.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *11:09:34 9/03/16*+ [Oops... forgot the link.](messages/323942.html) - **Validus** *08:55:39 9/02/16*
> - [Oops AGAIN! Wrong article...](messages/323943.html) - **Validus** *09:06:37 9/02/16** [21 months! finally got the guts to post on here [PIC]](messages/323926.html) - **Goku** *19:36:45 8/31/16*
> + [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323961.html) - **Validus** *08:51:01 9/03/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/324008.html) - **Goku** *19:04:35 9/07/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323953.html) - **Ken in SF** *07:12:03 9/03/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/324007.html) - **Goku** *19:03:47 9/07/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323951.html) - **Hairball** *06:20:26 9/03/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323955.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *07:14:18 9/03/16*
> * [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323965.html) - **Hairball** *10:42:40 9/03/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323940.html) - **Tristan** *21:38:11 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323944.html) - **Goku** *17:54:20 9/02/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323939.html) - **A.D.** *21:32:25 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323945.html) - **Goku** *17:55:09 9/02/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here [PIC]](messages/323938.html) - **Sugarcane** *17:42:47 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323947.html) - **Goku** *17:58:13 9/02/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323937.html) - **Leapy** *17:42:42 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323946.html) - **Goku** *17:57:29 9/02/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323931.html) - **Absalom** *10:05:15 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323932.html) - **Goku** *15:11:46 9/01/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323930.html) - **Marx** *05:00:01 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323933.html) - **Goku** *15:12:34 9/01/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323929.html) - **PhilipZ** *03:11:03 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323934.html) - **Goku** *15:13:00 9/01/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323928.html) - **MG** *00:16:59 9/01/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323935.html) - **Goku** *15:13:29 9/01/16*+ [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323927.html) - **Raymond** *21:50:08 8/31/16*
> - [Re: 21 months! finally got the guts to post on here](messages/323936.html) - **Goku** *15:14:10 9/01/16** [update [PIC]](messages/323908.html) - **rabbit** *11:16:18 8/26/16*
> + [Re: update](messages/323962.html) - **Validus** *08:52:14 9/03/16*+ [Nice!!! (N/T)](messages/323954.html) - **Ken in SF** *07:13:32 9/03/16*+ [Re: update](messages/323919.html) - **Marx** *04:20:32 8/28/16*+ [Re: update](messages/323914.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:16:43 8/27/16*+ [Re: update](messages/323910.html) - **Raymond** *19:01:05 8/26/16*+ [Re: update](messages/323909.html) - **Hairball** *18:23:09 8/26/16** [Update [PIC]](messages/323895.html) - **Marx** *13:50:55 8/23/16*
> + [Re: Update](messages/323963.html) - **Validus** *08:53:47 9/03/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323956.html) - **Ken in SF** *07:17:15 9/03/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323915.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:23:20 8/27/16*
> - [Re: Update](messages/323916.html) - **Marx** *04:04:17 8/28/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323897.html) - **Steve** *17:51:26 8/24/16*
> - [Re: Update](messages/323918.html) - **Marx** *04:17:20 8/28/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323896.html) - **Raymond** *20:54:13 8/23/16*
> - [Re: Update](messages/323917.html) - **Marx** *04:09:20 8/28/16** [Portrait [PIC]](messages/323885.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:38:03 8/21/16*
> + [Re: Portrait](messages/323964.html) - **Validus** *08:54:50 9/03/16*+ [Re: Portrait](messages/323904.html) - **Absalom** *05:54:33 8/26/16*
> - [Thank you, Scott! (n/t)](messages/323912.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:06:55 8/27/16*+ [Re: Portrait](messages/323898.html) - **Marx** *06:43:12 8/25/16*
> - [Re: Portrait - Full Length [PIC]](messages/323911.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:05:43 8/27/16*
> * [Re: Portrait - Full Length](messages/324006.html) - **aeyrim** *18:44:52 9/07/16** [Re: Portrait - Full Length](messages/323922.html) - **trolleypup** *07:54:58 8/28/16** [Re: Portrait - Full Length](messages/323920.html) - **Marx** *04:23:06 8/28/16*+ [Re: Portrait](messages/323894.html) - **rabbit** *03:10:50 8/22/16*
> - [Re: Portrait](messages/323913.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:12:12 8/27/16*
> * [Re: Portrait](messages/323925.html) - **Bob** *15:18:39 8/29/16** [Fast growing strands](messages/323876.html) - **Rktect** *10:35:47 8/21/16*
> + [Re: Fast growing strands](messages/323903.html) - **Absalom** *05:53:01 8/26/16*
> - [Re: Fast growing strands](messages/323924.html) - **Rktect** *10:31:17 8/28/16** [Introduction + Inspiration [pic] [PIC]](messages/323874.html) - **Leapy** *10:35:22 8/21/16*
> + [Re: Introduction + Inspiration [PIC]](messages/323907.html) - **Leapy** *11:16:13 8/26/16*
> - [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323921.html) - **Marx** *04:31:03 8/28/16*
> * [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323923.html) - **Leapy** *10:31:12 8/28/16*+ [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323899.html) - **Marx** *06:43:17 8/25/16*+ [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323893.html) - **rabbit** *03:10:41 8/22/16*+ [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323892.html) - **Raymond** *21:53:43 8/21/16*+ [Re: Introduction + Inspiration](messages/323878.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:52:45 8/21/16** [The most beautiful long hair on a man... [PIC]](messages/323864.html) - **Ryan** *05:55:25 8/20/16*
> + [about the woman commenting on his hair](messages/324032.html) - **Paul** *15:23:07 9/09/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323900.html) - **Marx** *06:43:23 8/25/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323879.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:02:29 8/21/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323872.html) - **Tristan** *08:50:02 8/21/16*
> - [Long hair becoming more prevalent in bands again](messages/324029.html) - **Paul** *10:59:02 9/09/16*- [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man... [PIC]](messages/323875.html) - **jimho85** *10:35:28 8/21/16*
> * [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323891.html) - **Tristan** *21:44:57 8/21/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man.](messages/323870.html) - **Jacob** *07:01:44 8/21/16*
> - [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man. [PIC]](messages/323880.html) - **Ryan** *15:05:39 8/21/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323868.html) - **Gene W** *07:45:26 8/20/16*+ [Re: The most beautiful long hair on a man...](messages/323865.html) - **Hairball** *06:12:57 8/20/16** [Nearly 3 years [PIC]](messages/323845.html) - **Seminole** *17:46:14 8/17/16*
> + [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323901.html) - **Marx** *11:27:39 8/25/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323877.html) - **PhilipZ** *14:47:58 8/21/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323871.html) - **Tristan** *08:46:49 8/21/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323866.html) - **Hairball** *06:16:29 8/20/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323862.html) - **Mike B** *10:32:20 8/19/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323858.html) - **MG** *07:49:32 8/19/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic) [PIC]](messages/323856.html) - **JustCarol** *22:32:54 8/18/16*
> - [Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic)](messages/323905.html) - **Absalom** *05:57:14 8/26/16*- [Re: Nearly 3 years (Fixed your pic)](messages/323861.html) - **Seminole** *08:49:38 8/19/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323852.html) - **sj** *09:27:09 8/18/16*
> - [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323860.html) - **Seminole** *08:48:25 8/19/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323849.html) - **J.M.M.** *06:40:10 8/18/16*
> - [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323854.html) - **Seminole** *17:16:25 8/18/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323848.html) - **Raymond** *05:47:53 8/18/16*
> - [Re: Nearly 3 years [PIC]](messages/323853.html) - **Seminole** *17:16:19 8/18/16*
> * [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323857.html) - **Raymond** *06:00:59 8/19/16*
> + [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323859.html) - **Seminole** *08:45:52 8/19/16*- [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323850.html) - **Seminole** *06:49:17 8/18/16*+ [Re: Nearly 3 years](messages/323847.html) - **Rock** *22:17:20 8/17/16*
> - [Thank you!](messages/323851.html) - **Seminole** *06:49:22 8/18/16** [4 year update](messages/323842.html) - **Mike B** *13:12:47 8/14/16*
> + [Re: 4 year update [PIC]](messages/323843.html) - **Mike B** *13:14:51 8/14/16*
> - [Re: 4 year update](messages/323902.html) - **Marx** *11:27:45 8/25/16*- [Re: 4 year update](messages/323881.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:13:22 8/21/16*- [Re: 4 year update](messages/323867.html) - **Hairball** *06:20:12 8/20/16*
> * [Re: 4 year update](messages/323869.html) - **Mike B** *10:20:58 8/20/16*- [Re: 4 year update](messages/323855.html) - **Seminole** *17:16:30 8/18/16** [Question about account changes here...](messages/323840.html) - **David Lee** *10:19:39 8/14/16*
> + [Re: Question about account changes here...](messages/323841.html) - **White Tail** *12:56:44 8/14/16*
> - [Re: Question about account changes here...](messages/323873.html) - **Tristan** *08:56:14 8/21/16** [Small half ponytail [PIC]](messages/323838.html) - **Minerva** *19:58:26 8/13/16*
> + [Re: Small half ponytail](messages/323882.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:16:12 8/21/16*+ [Re: Small half ponytail](messages/323844.html) - **J.M.M.** *03:53:02 8/15/16** [And another band photo... [PIC]](messages/323829.html) - **David Lee** *22:06:32 8/11/16*
> + [Re: And another band photo...](messages/323835.html) - **Markus** *09:53:46 8/13/16*
> - [Re: And another band photo...](messages/323836.html) - **David Lee** *11:50:55 8/13/16*+ [Band members... [PIC]](messages/323830.html) - **David Lee** *22:15:18 8/11/16** [Band Photo Shoot Pic... [PIC]](messages/323828.html) - **David Lee** *21:59:29 8/11/16** [27 month progress pic ! [PIC]](messages/323817.html) - **Patrick Brands** *11:02:34 8/10/16*
> + [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323906.html) - **Absalom** *05:59:51 8/26/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323883.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:22:19 8/21/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323839.html) - **David Lee** *10:14:43 8/14/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323832.html) - **JustCarol** *21:59:32 8/12/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323827.html) - **Raymond** *19:30:46 8/11/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323826.html) - **ATZ** *17:21:33 8/11/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323822.html) - **James** *16:17:31 8/10/16*+ [Re: 27 month progress pic !](messages/323818.html) - **rabbit** *11:30:45 8/10/16** [Is it Terminal?](messages/323816.html) - **Mads1223** *03:06:24 8/10/16*
> + [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323863.html) - **elektros** *18:17:11 8/19/16*+ [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323820.html) - **DK** *12:48:04 8/10/16*
> - [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323825.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *22:32:57 8/10/16*
> * [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323834.html) - **Mads1223** *05:22:47 8/13/16*
> + [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323837.html) - **Poison Ivy** *14:01:10 8/13/16** [Re: Is it Terminal?](messages/323833.html) - **J.M.M.** *02:13:40 8/13/16** [17 months in. [PIC]](messages/323810.html) - **Mike D** *17:36:03 8/07/16*
> + [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323884.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:27:35 8/21/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323846.html) - **Seminole** *17:46:20 8/17/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323819.html) - **rabbit** *11:33:56 8/10/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323815.html) - **Mike D** *05:51:03 8/09/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323814.html) - **Absalom** *02:09:35 8/09/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323812.html) - **James** *10:22:03 8/08/16*+ [Re: 17 months in.](messages/323811.html) - **Raymond** *21:22:25 8/07/16** [long time no see - 22 month update [PIC]](messages/323805.html) - **Minerva** *13:30:59 8/02/16** [my stupid new years decision// starting over [PIC]](messages/323791.html) - **jimho85** *10:29:51 7/31/16*
> + [Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over](messages/323808.html) - **DK** *18:02:47 8/05/16*+ [My hair looks like this now.... [PIC]](messages/323803.html) - **jimho85** *12:51:08 8/02/16*+ [Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over](messages/323800.html) - **Raymond** *07:05:11 8/01/16*+ [Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over](messages/323798.html) - **brucew** *19:52:59 7/31/16*+ [Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over](messages/323797.html) - **Mike D** *19:25:38 7/31/16*+ [Re: my stupid new years decision// starting over](messages/323793.html) - **Hairball** *11:21:14 7/31/16** [long awaited update [PIC]](messages/323787.html) - **rabbit** *04:21:32 7/31/16*
> + [Re: long awaited update](messages/323799.html) - **Patrick Brands** *21:19:07 7/31/16*
> - [Re: long awaited update](messages/323801.html) - **rabbit** *17:09:42 8/01/16*+ [Re: long awaited update [PIC]](messages/323792.html) - **jimho85** *10:29:56 7/31/16*
> - [Re: long awaited update](messages/323795.html) - **rabbit** *13:41:44 7/31/16*+ [Re: long awaited update (front) [PIC]](messages/323789.html) - **rabbit** *10:29:40 7/31/16*
> - [Re: long awaited update (front)](messages/323794.html) - **Hairball** *11:24:34 7/31/16*
> * [Re: long awaited update (front)](messages/323796.html) - **rabbit** *13:41:49 7/31/16*+ [Re: long awaited update](messages/323788.html) - **Hairball** *04:26:32 7/31/16*
> - [Re: long awaited update](messages/323790.html) - **rabbit** *10:29:46 7/31/16** [Dealing with dandruff](messages/323783.html) - **VinYang** *15:21:28 7/29/16*
> + [Re: Dealing with dandruff](messages/323809.html) - **DK** *18:02:52 8/05/16*+ [Re: Dealing with dandruff](messages/323786.html) - **Just Carol** *23:28:46 7/29/16*+ [Re: Dealing with dandruff](messages/323785.html) - **Long Hair in Albany** *20:19:00 7/29/16*
> - [Re: Dealing with dandruff](messages/324209.html) - **CarpeMors** *18:39:11 10/10/16** [OK Im not gay but... [PIC]](messages/323770.html) - **jimho85** *12:19:13 7/24/16*
> + [Re: OK Im not gay but...](messages/323774.html) - **Rul** *07:48:09 7/27/16*
> - [Re: OK Im not gay but...](messages/323780.html) - **Trolleypup** *17:10:07 7/27/16** [picture [PIC]](messages/323764.html) - **mike** *18:04:13 7/23/16*
> + [Re: picture](messages/323765.html) - **mike** *18:06:21 7/23/16*
> - [Re: picture](messages/323772.html) - **mike** *16:21:56 7/24/16*
> * [Re: picture](messages/323778.html) - **Ken in SF** *10:17:20 7/27/16** [Long overdo update [PIC]](messages/323760.html) - **Hairball** *07:08:46 7/23/16*
> + [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323821.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:57:18 8/10/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323824.html) - **Hairball** *18:20:08 8/10/16*+ [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323813.html) - **Don** *12:03:00 8/08/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323823.html) - **Hairball** *18:10:10 8/10/16*+ [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323804.html) - **nuttidave** *12:51:14 8/02/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323806.html) - **Hairball** *15:32:49 8/02/16*
> * [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323807.html) - **nuttidave** *03:04:34 8/04/16*+ [Well slap me silly and dump ice water on my head!](messages/323775.html) - **Ken in SF** *09:47:19 7/27/16*
> - [Re: Well slap me silly and dump ice water on my head!](messages/323781.html) - **Hairball** *18:08:42 7/27/16*+ [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323773.html) - **Markus** *05:17:28 7/27/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323782.html) - **Hairball** *18:10:20 7/27/16*+ [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323769.html) - **Jason** *06:18:07 7/24/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323771.html) - **Hairball** *12:28:08 7/24/16*+ [dramatic update !!](messages/323762.html) - **White Tail** *07:47:16 7/23/16*
> - [Re: dramatic update !!](messages/323768.html) - **Hairball** *05:23:27 7/24/16*+ [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323761.html) - **Raymond** *07:17:55 7/23/16*
> - [Re: Long overdo update](messages/323767.html) - **Hairball** *05:19:36 7/24/16** [monthly update..26 month progress [PIC]](messages/323751.html) - **Patrick Brands** *21:22:26 7/21/16*
> + [Re: monthly update..26 month progress](messages/323776.html) - **Ken in SF** *09:55:46 7/27/16*+ [Re: monthly update..26 month progress](messages/323763.html) - **sj** *13:00:23 7/23/16*+ [Re: monthly update..26 month progress](messages/323758.html) - **BruceJ** *14:04:31 7/22/16*+ [Re: monthly update..26 month progress](messages/323754.html) - **Validus** *06:50:49 7/22/16*+ [Re: monthly update..26 month progress](messages/323752.html) - **Raymond** *21:27:55 7/21/16** [more braids [PIC]](messages/323750.html) - **steve** *09:19:07 7/21/16*
> + [Re: more braids](messages/323777.html) - **Ken in SF** *10:13:52 7/27/16*
> - [Re: more braids](messages/323784.html) - **Steve** *18:57:47 7/29/16*+ [Re: more braids](messages/323759.html) - **BruceJ** *14:08:38 7/22/16** [New Photo [PIC]](messages/323725.html) - **James** *12:07:35 7/18/16*
> + [Re: New Photo](messages/323748.html) - **Ken in SF** *19:33:17 7/20/16*
> - [Re: New Photo](messages/323802.html) - **James** *21:00:42 8/01/16*+ [Re: New Photo](messages/323742.html) - **Validus** *12:42:05 7/19/16*+ [Re: New Photo](messages/323739.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *03:41:46 7/19/16*+ [Re: New Photo](messages/323736.html) - **Anthony** *01:58:17 7/19/16*+ [Re: New Photo](messages/323729.html) - **BruceJ** *19:41:47 7/18/16*+ [Re: New Photo](messages/323727.html) - **Markus** *13:57:03 7/18/16*
> - [Re: New Photo](messages/323728.html) - **James** *16:04:19 7/18/16*
> * [Re: New Photo](messages/323735.html) - **Markus** *01:13:27 7/19/16*
> + [Re: New Photo](messages/323744.html) - **James** *17:04:31 7/19/16*
> - [Re: New Photo](messages/323746.html) - **Hairball** *18:24:42 7/20/16*- [Re: New Photo](messages/323745.html) - **Markus** *11:33:38 7/20/16** [North Korea](messages/323719.html) - **LongHairInAlbany** *18:56:55 7/14/16*
> + [Re: North Korea](messages/323738.html) - **Anthony** *03:41:17 7/19/16*
> - [Re: North Korea](messages/323740.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *03:48:14 7/19/16*+ [Possibly a bad link](messages/323731.html) - **BruceJ** *19:57:34 7/18/16*
> - [Re: Possibly a bad link](messages/323737.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *03:38:52 7/19/16*
> * [Re: Possibly a bad link](messages/323741.html) - **BruceJ** *10:24:27 7/19/16*+ [Re: North Korea](messages/323722.html) - **Markus** *08:03:06 7/15/16*
> - [Re: North Korea](messages/323726.html) - **elektros** *13:50:55 7/18/16*- [Re: North Korea](messages/323723.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *09:37:04 7/15/16** [6 Mo. Update [PIC]](messages/323700.html) - **Don** *17:06:29 7/11/16*
> + [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323732.html) - **BruceJ** *20:47:04 7/18/16*
> - [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323749.html) - **Don** *07:08:36 7/21/16*+ [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323720.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:33:30 7/15/16*
> - [Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]](messages/323730.html) - **Don** *19:56:02 7/18/16*
> * [Garden photos](messages/323747.html) - **Ken in SF** *19:20:02 7/20/16*+ [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323713.html) - **Validus** *07:27:42 7/13/16*
> - [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323717.html) - **Don** *16:50:28 7/14/16*
> * [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323718.html) - **Hairball** *16:53:24 7/14/16*
> + [Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]](messages/323743.html) - **Don** *16:33:24 7/19/16*+ [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323724.html) - **Don** *10:24:25 7/18/16*+ [Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]](messages/323702.html) - **Don** *17:56:51 7/11/16*+ [Re: 6 Mo. Update [PIC]](messages/323701.html) - **Don** *17:56:46 7/11/16*
> - [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323703.html) - **Raymond** *00:25:33 7/12/16*
> * [Re: 6 Mo. Update](messages/323716.html) - **Don** *14:50:49 7/14/16** [Update [PIC]](messages/323690.html) - **Robert** *14:50:30 7/08/16*
> + [Re: Update](messages/323733.html) - **BruceJ** *20:55:43 7/18/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323721.html) - **Ken in SF** *04:38:51 7/15/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323715.html) - **Tes** *13:49:49 7/13/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323712.html) - **Validus** *07:25:42 7/13/16*+ [Re: Update [PIC]](messages/323704.html) - **longhairedone Steve** *03:10:36 7/12/16*
> - [Re: Update](messages/323714.html) - **Tes** *13:49:44 7/13/16*
> * [Re: Update](messages/323766.html) - **longhairedone Steve** *19:33:18 7/23/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323694.html) - **RossRS** *21:29:53 7/09/16*+ [Re: Update](messages/323693.html) - **sj** *09:02:28 7/09/16** [Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323681.html) - **Markus** *02:10:57 7/08/16*
> + [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323753.html) - **Lucio** *06:50:05 7/22/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323734.html) - **BruceJ** *21:12:28 7/18/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323711.html) - **Validus** *07:23:26 7/13/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323706.html) - **Tristan** *20:00:26 7/12/16*
> - [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323710.html) - **Markus** *07:21:36 7/13/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323692.html) - **Raymond** *21:56:24 7/08/16*
> - [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323695.html) - **Markus** *02:48:13 7/10/16*
> * [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323696.html) - **Raymond** *05:51:58 7/10/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323688.html) - **Ken in SF** *08:54:20 7/08/16*
> - [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323697.html) - **Markus** *06:36:56 7/10/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323687.html) - **MG** *08:42:56 7/08/16*
> - [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323698.html) - **Markus** *06:38:53 7/10/16*+ [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323683.html) - **Hairball** *03:22:48 7/08/16*
> - [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323684.html) - **Markus** *04:17:18 7/08/16*
> * [Re: Markus from Austria (update) [PIC]](messages/323691.html) - **Hairball** *14:57:21 7/08/16*
> + [Re: Markus from Austria (update)](messages/323699.html) - **Markus** *06:45:33 7/10/16** [I've inspired family members :) [PIC]](messages/323619.html) - **Patrick Brands** *13:58:54 6/24/16*
> + [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323755.html) - **Lucio** *07:07:29 7/22/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323682.html) - **Tes** *03:14:11 7/08/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323642.html) - **BruceJ** *18:08:27 7/01/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323630.html) - **rabbit** *14:20:40 6/25/16*
> - [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323639.html) - **Patrick Brands** *08:04:33 7/01/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323623.html) - **Raymond** *18:02:37 6/24/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323622.html) - **Hairball** *17:58:17 6/24/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323621.html) - **MG** *16:57:24 6/24/16*+ [Re: I've inspired family members :)](messages/323620.html) - **Validus** *14:37:52 6/24/16** [5 year update [PIC]](messages/323540.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:34:43 6/04/16*
> + [Re: 5 year update](messages/323567.html) - **r** *22:25:05 6/07/16*
> - [Re: 5 year update](messages/323887.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:55:05 8/21/16*+ [Re: 5 year update](messages/323556.html) - **Jason** *17:23:17 6/06/16*
> - [Re: 5 year update](messages/323886.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:51:02 8/21/16*+ [Re: 5 year update](messages/323554.html) - **Bruce J** *23:42:33 6/05/16*
> - [Thanks Bruce! (N/T)](messages/323888.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:56:30 8/21/16*+ [Re: 5 year update](messages/323546.html) - **Absalom** *15:58:26 6/05/16*
> - [Re: 5 year update](messages/323831.html) - **PhilipZ** *12:07:07 8/12/16*+ [Re: 5 year update](messages/323544.html) - **Hairball** *17:16:20 6/04/16*
> - [Re: 5 year update](messages/323889.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:03:11 8/21/16*+ [Re: 5 year update](messages/323541.html) - **sj** *13:44:55 6/04/16*
> - [Thank you! (N/T)](messages/323890.html) - **PhilipZ** *16:05:05 8/21/16** [Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323454.html) - **Jason's Shadow** *19:46:54 5/21/16*
> + [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323534.html) - **Native Carolinian** *16:44:27 6/02/16*
> - [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323535.html) - **Native Carolinian** *16:47:23 6/02/16*+ [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323485.html) - **Guilherme S.** *11:35:47 5/26/16*+ [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323482.html) - **Validus** *07:56:31 5/26/16*+ [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323464.html) - **elektros** *17:41:06 5/23/16*
> - [Re: Do Girls Like Guys With LONG HAIR?](messages/323756.html) - **Lucio** *08:01:05 7/22/16** [15 Month Update [PIC]](messages/323292.html) - **Marx** *16:45:19 4/15/16*
> + [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323779.html) - **Steve** *14:02:51 7/27/16*+ [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323310.html) - **The Spaf Man** *11:05:30 4/24/16*
> - [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323322.html) - **Marx** *08:12:27 4/28/16*
> * [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323326.html) - **The Spaf Man** *10:27:21 4/30/16*+ [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323299.html) - **Steve** *14:19:16 4/18/16*
> - [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323320.html) - **Marx** *08:02:07 4/28/16*+ [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323295.html) - **rabbit** *05:53:28 4/16/16*
> - [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323319.html) - **Marx** *07:58:57 4/28/16*+ [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323293.html) - **Ted** *19:17:46 4/15/16*
> - [Re: 15 Month Update](messages/323318.html) - **Marx** *07:56:11 4/28/16** [Here's a really long ponytail [PIC]](messages/323227.html) - **Jacob** *16:25:54 3/31/16*
> + [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/324880.html) - **Jason** *16:49:06 4/01/17*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323263.html) - **doninoz** *01:31:46 4/06/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323261.html) - **Viktor** *14:01:55 4/04/16*
> - [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323757.html) - **Lucio** *09:18:49 7/22/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323244.html) - **Marco** *16:20:31 4/02/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323233.html) - **Joe** *08:38:50 4/01/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323232.html) - **J.M.M.** *23:44:49 3/31/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323231.html) - **A.D.** *19:17:15 3/31/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323229.html) - **Guilherme S.** *16:42:02 3/31/16*
> - [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323235.html) - **Jacob** *13:54:59 4/01/16*
> * [Oh sorry, I thought it was you, it's beautiful anyway (N/T)](messages/323236.html) - **Guilherme S.** *15:25:42 4/01/16*+ [Re: Here's a really long ponytail](messages/323228.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *16:41:01 3/31/16** [7 years [PIC]](messages/321811.html) - **Dak** *14:12:04 10/24/15*
> + [Re: 7 years](messages/321861.html) - **PhilipZ** *15:53:51 10/30/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321844.html) - **J.M.M.** *23:10:56 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321840.html) - **Ken in SF** *21:17:52 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321829.html) - **A.D.** *19:56:39 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321821.html) - **Bob J** *10:16:26 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321818.html) - **John** *05:27:33 10/25/15*
> - [Re: 7 years](messages/321824.html) - **Dak** *11:53:39 10/25/15*
> * [Re: 7 years](messages/324062.html) - **Dak** *12:24:00 9/13/16** [Re: 7 years](messages/321849.html) - **Marco** *09:08:50 10/26/15*
> + [Re: 7 years](messages/321850.html) - **Long Hair In Albany** *04:29:16 10/27/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321817.html) - **Marx** *05:07:48 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321813.html) - **Marco** *18:38:56 10/24/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321812.html) - **Hairball** *14:19:14 10/24/15*
> - [Re: 7 years [PIC]](messages/321814.html) - **Dak** *18:39:01 10/24/15*
> * [Re: 7 years](messages/321828.html) - **Lucian** *17:38:12 10/25/15** [Re: 7 years](messages/321816.html) - **Raymond** *22:15:50 10/24/15*
> + [Re: 7 years](messages/321823.html) - **Dak** *11:53:33 10/25/15** [Re: 7 years](messages/321815.html) - **Hairball** *18:51:45 10/24/15*
> + [Re: 7 years](messages/321845.html) - **J.M.M.** *23:39:16 10/25/15*+ [Re: 7 years](messages/321819.html) - **Dak** *05:43:30 10/25/15*
>
>
>
>
>
>
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<title>The Matrix RPG</title>
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<p><img src="images/front-logo.gif" width="183" height="69"></p>
<h3>A Systemless Sourcebook</h3>
<p align="left">A systemless sourcebook is a setting written to be used with
any RPG. Where possible, things have been described in narrative terms only;
when numbers are absolutely necessary, things are rated on a scale from 1-3.
Converting these ratings into stats for your favorite system is as easy as
deciding what constitutes a Minor (1), Moderate (2), or Major (3) rating.
This will work best for skill-based RPGs, though class-based systems can work,
too. </p>
<p align="left">A note: The material on this site is heavily skewed towards
games set in The Matrix, not the Real World. One bright day, I might add more
Real World stuff, but that won't be for a while. (The gimmick I usually employ
is running the Operator as a GM character and ending the adventure when the
PCs hit an exit.(</p>
<p align="left">Finally, because I'm a shameless self-promoter, I recommend
my <strong><a href="http://www.Bayn.org/wushu/matrix.html">Wushu Guide to
the Matrix</a></strong>. It's a version of this sourcebook that's written
for the Wushu RPG, a rules-light game that encourages cinematic stunts by
making them tactically advantageous. In other words, the crazier & more
over-the-top your stunt, the <em>more</em> likely it is to succeed. That's
how Wushu captures the Hong Kong, wire-fu style that makes the Matrix films
so great!</p>
<p align="center">Jack in, load up, and get ready to experience the mind-shattering
action and adventure of The Matrix.</p>
<table border="0" width="75%">
<tr>
<td width="48%" align="center" valign="middle">
<h3 align="center"><a href="whatisthematrix/index.html"><img src="images/what-is-the-matrix.gif" width="216" height="26" border="0"></a></h3>
</td>
<td width="52%" align="center" valign="middle">
<h3 align="center"><a href="therealworld/index.html"><img src="images/the-real-world.gif" width="184" height="28" border="0"></a></h3>
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<h3 align="center"><a href="themachines/index.html"><img src="images/the-machines.gif" width="156" height="27" border="0"></a></h3>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h5 align="center">This is a free, unlicensed rpg. "The Matrix" and
all associated material are a copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment.</h5>
<h5 align="center">Written by Daniel Pond, 1999 2001 / Presented by <a href="http://www.imeg-games.com">ImEG</a></h5>
<h5 align="center"> </h5>
</div>
</body>
</html>
|
The Matrix RPG
### A Systemless Sourcebook
A systemless sourcebook is a setting written to be used with
any RPG. Where possible, things have been described in narrative terms only;
when numbers are absolutely necessary, things are rated on a scale from 1-3.
Converting these ratings into stats for your favorite system is as easy as
deciding what constitutes a Minor (1), Moderate (2), or Major (3) rating.
This will work best for skill-based RPGs, though class-based systems can work,
too.
A note: The material on this site is heavily skewed towards
games set in The Matrix, not the Real World. One bright day, I might add more
Real World stuff, but that won't be for a while. (The gimmick I usually employ
is running the Operator as a GM character and ending the adventure when the
PCs hit an exit.(
Finally, because I'm a shameless self-promoter, I recommend
my **[Wushu Guide to
the Matrix](http://www.Bayn.org/wushu/matrix.html)**. It's a version of this sourcebook that's written
for the Wushu RPG, a rules-light game that encourages cinematic stunts by
making them tactically advantageous. In other words, the crazier & more
over-the-top your stunt, the *more* likely it is to succeed. That's
how Wushu captures the Hong Kong, wire-fu style that makes the Matrix films
so great!
Jack in, load up, and get ready to experience the mind-shattering
action and adventure of The Matrix.
| | |
| --- | --- |
| | |
| | |
##### This is a free, unlicensed rpg. "The Matrix" and
all associated material are a copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment.
##### Written by Daniel Pond, 1999 2001 / Presented by [ImEG](http://www.imeg-games.com)
#####
| http://www.scc.net/~indra/matrix/ |
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An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod\_Security.
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<h1 class="page_title">Military Aircraft Information Gallery</h1>
<h2 class="page_subtitle">Fact Sheets & Historical Narratives</h2>
<div class="nav_path"><a title="Home" href="/">Home</a> » Military Aircraft Information Gallery</div>
<div class="top_nav"><a href="/blackbird/"><img src="/design/blackbird_off.png" title="The Blackbird" alt="The Blackbird" width="102" height="35" /></a><a href="/aircraft/"><img src="/design/aircraft_on.png" title="Military Aircraft" alt="Military Aircraft" width="103" height="35" /></a><a href="/museums/"><img src="/design/museums_off.png" title="Museums" alt="Museums" width="103" height="35" /></a><a href="/photogallery/"><img src="/design/photo_off.png" title="Image Gallery" alt="Image Gallery" width="103" height="35" /></a><a href="/groomlake/"><img src="/design/groomlake_off.png" title="Groom Lake" alt="Groom Lake" width="103" height="35" /></a><a href="/links/"><img src="/design/links_off.png" title="Links" alt="Links" width="103" height="35" /></a></div>
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<p>Welcome to the aircraft information gallery. This section provides background information on
some popular military aircraft. To find out more information on a particular aircraft,
just click on one of the links below.</p>
<div class="sections">
<a href="a-10.php"><img src="a-10_small.jpg" alt="A-10 Thunderbolt II" title="A-10 Thunderbolt II" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="a-10.php">A-10 Thunderbolt II</a></h2>
<p>The A-10 Thunderbolt IIs are the first Air Force aircraft specially designed for close air
support of ground forces. These aircraft are simple, effective and survivable twin-engine jet
aircraft that can be used against all ground targets.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="b-1.php"><img src="b-1_small.jpg" alt="B-1 Lancer" title="B-1 Lancer" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="b-1.php">B-1 Lancer</a></h2>
<p>The original B-1A was retired because of its large radar cross-section and to make the B-1
less vulnerable, modifications were made resulting in the B-1B. The B-1B is a long-range strategic
bomber, capable of flying intercontinental missions without refueling, and then penetrating enemy
defenses.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="b-2.php"><img src="b-2_small.jpg" alt="B-2A Spirit" title="B-2A Spirit" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="b-2.php">B-2A Spirit</a></h2>
<p>The B-2 Spirit is a multi-role bomber capable of delivering both conventional and nuclear munitions.
The aircraft is a dramatic leap forward in technology and the bomber represents a milestone in the United
States bomber modernization program.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="b-52.php"><img src="b-52_small.jpg" alt="B-52 Stratofortress" title="B-52 Stratofortress" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="b-52.php">B-52 Stratofortress</a></h2>
<p>The B-52 is a long-range, heavy bomber that can perform a variety of missions. It can fly
at high subsonic speeds at altitudes up to 50,000 feet and it is capable of carrying nuclear or
conventional weapons.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="c-17.php"><img src="c-17_small.jpg" alt="C-17 Globemaster III" title="C-17 Globemaster III" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="c-17.php">C-17 Globemaster III</a></h2>
<p>The C-17 is capable of rapid strategic delivery of all types of cargo to any base. The fundamental
flexibility and performance characteristics of the C-17 force improve the ability of the total
airlift system to fulfill the worldwide air mobility requirements of the United States.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="c-5.php"><img src="c-5_small.jpg" alt="C-5 Galaxy" title="C-5 Galaxy" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="c-5.php">C-5 Galaxy</a></h2>
<p>This huge aircraft was the largest aircraft in the world when it was first built. The C-5 has a
tremendous payload capability, thus providing for the Air Mobility Command in support of United
States national defense.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="f-117.php"><img src="f-117_small.jpg" alt="F-117A Nighthawk" title="F-117A Nighthawk" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="f-117.php">F-117A Nighthawk</a></h2>
<p>The F-117A Nighthawk is the world's first operational aircraft designed to take advantage of stealth
technology. The design of the F-117A gives it exceptional combat capabilities. It is powered by two
General Electric F404 turbofan engines and has quadruple redundant fly-by-wire flight controls.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="f-15.php"><img src="f-15_small.jpg" alt="F-15 Eagle" title="F-15 Eagle" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="f-15.php">F-15 Eagle</a></h2>
<p>The F-15 Eagle is an extremely maneuverable, tactical fighter designed to permit the USAF to gain and
maintain air superiority in aerial combat. However, some F-15s will soon be replaced by the next
air-superiority fighter, the F-22 Raptor.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="f-16.php"><img src="f-16_small.jpg" alt="F-16 Fighting Falcon" title="F-16 Fighting Falcon" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="f-16.php">F-16 Fighting Falcon</a></h2>
<p>The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a small, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven
itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost, high-performance
weapon system for the United States and allied nations.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="kc-10.php"><img src="kc-10_small.jpg" alt="KC-10 Extender" title="KC-10 Extender" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="kc-10.php">KC-10 Extender</a></h2>
<p>A modified DC-10, the KC-10A entered service in 1981. The KC-10A Extender is an advanced tanker
and cargo aircraft designed to provide increased global mobility. The KC-10A can transport up to
75 people and about 170,000 pounds of cargo a distance of about 4,400 miles unrefueled.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="kc-135.php"><img src="kc-135_small.jpg" alt="KC-135 Stratotanker" title="KC-135 Stratotanker" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="kc-135.php">KC-135 Stratotanker</a></h2>
<p>The KC-135 Stratotanker's primary mission is air refueling. This asset greatly strengthens
the USAF's capability to accomplish its mission of Global Engagement.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="t-38.php"><img src="t-38_small.jpg" alt="T-38 Talon" title="T-38 Talon" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="t-38.php">T-38 Talon</a></h2>
<p>The T-38 Talon is a twin-engine, supersonic jet trainer used in a variety of roles
because of its design, economy of operations, ease of maintenance, high performance
and exceptional safety record.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="u-2.php"><img src="u-2_small.jpg" alt="U-2 Dragon Lady" title="U-2 Dragon Lady" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="u-2.php">U-2 Dragon Lady</a></h2>
<p>The U-2 provides high-altitude reconnaissance of an area in direct support of the United States
and allied ground and air forces. Although it was supposed to be succeeded by the SR-71
Blackbird, it remains in the skies whereas the Blackbirds are in museums.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="xb-70.php"><img src="xb-70_small.jpg" alt="XB-70 Valkyrie" title="XB-70 Valkyrie" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="xb-70.php">XB-70 Valkyrie</a></h2>
<p>The XB-70 is one of the world's most exotic aircraft that was conceived for the SAC in the 1950s
as a high-altitude bomber that could fly three times the speed of sound. Due to limitations
on funding, only two XB-70 aircraft were built for the advanced study of aerodynamics, propulsion,
and other related subjects of large supersonic aircraft.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
<a href="ww2air.php"><img src="ww2air.jpg" alt="Role of USAAF Aircraft During World War II" title="Role of USAAF Aircraft During World War II" width="100" height="70" /></a>
<div class="item"><div class="prop"></div>
<h2><a href="ww2air.php">Role of USAAF Aircraft During World War II</a></h2>
<p>An essay discussing the role of Army Air Force aircraft from 1935-1945.</p>
<div class="clear"></div></div>
</div>
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SR-71 Online - Military Aircraft Information Gallery
# Military Aircraft Information Gallery
## Fact Sheets & Historical Narratives
[Home](/ "Home") » Military Aircraft Information Gallery
[](/blackbird/)[](/aircraft/)[](/museums/)[](/photogallery/)[](/groomlake/)[](/links/)
Welcome to the aircraft information gallery. This section provides background information on
some popular military aircraft. To find out more information on a particular aircraft,
just click on one of the links below.
[](a-10.php)
## [A-10 Thunderbolt II](a-10.php)
The A-10 Thunderbolt IIs are the first Air Force aircraft specially designed for close air
support of ground forces. These aircraft are simple, effective and survivable twin-engine jet
aircraft that can be used against all ground targets.
[](b-1.php)
## [B-1 Lancer](b-1.php)
The original B-1A was retired because of its large radar cross-section and to make the B-1
less vulnerable, modifications were made resulting in the B-1B. The B-1B is a long-range strategic
bomber, capable of flying intercontinental missions without refueling, and then penetrating enemy
defenses.
[](b-2.php)
## [B-2A Spirit](b-2.php)
The B-2 Spirit is a multi-role bomber capable of delivering both conventional and nuclear munitions.
The aircraft is a dramatic leap forward in technology and the bomber represents a milestone in the United
States bomber modernization program.
[](b-52.php)
## [B-52 Stratofortress](b-52.php)
The B-52 is a long-range, heavy bomber that can perform a variety of missions. It can fly
at high subsonic speeds at altitudes up to 50,000 feet and it is capable of carrying nuclear or
conventional weapons.
[](c-17.php)
## [C-17 Globemaster III](c-17.php)
The C-17 is capable of rapid strategic delivery of all types of cargo to any base. The fundamental
flexibility and performance characteristics of the C-17 force improve the ability of the total
airlift system to fulfill the worldwide air mobility requirements of the United States.
[](c-5.php)
## [C-5 Galaxy](c-5.php)
This huge aircraft was the largest aircraft in the world when it was first built. The C-5 has a
tremendous payload capability, thus providing for the Air Mobility Command in support of United
States national defense.
[](f-117.php)
## [F-117A Nighthawk](f-117.php)
The F-117A Nighthawk is the world's first operational aircraft designed to take advantage of stealth
technology. The design of the F-117A gives it exceptional combat capabilities. It is powered by two
General Electric F404 turbofan engines and has quadruple redundant fly-by-wire flight controls.
[](f-15.php)
## [F-15 Eagle](f-15.php)
The F-15 Eagle is an extremely maneuverable, tactical fighter designed to permit the USAF to gain and
maintain air superiority in aerial combat. However, some F-15s will soon be replaced by the next
air-superiority fighter, the F-22 Raptor.
[](f-16.php)
## [F-16 Fighting Falcon](f-16.php)
The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a small, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven
itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost, high-performance
weapon system for the United States and allied nations.
[](kc-10.php)
## [KC-10 Extender](kc-10.php)
A modified DC-10, the KC-10A entered service in 1981. The KC-10A Extender is an advanced tanker
and cargo aircraft designed to provide increased global mobility. The KC-10A can transport up to
75 people and about 170,000 pounds of cargo a distance of about 4,400 miles unrefueled.
[](kc-135.php)
## [KC-135 Stratotanker](kc-135.php)
The KC-135 Stratotanker's primary mission is air refueling. This asset greatly strengthens
the USAF's capability to accomplish its mission of Global Engagement.
[](t-38.php)
## [T-38 Talon](t-38.php)
The T-38 Talon is a twin-engine, supersonic jet trainer used in a variety of roles
because of its design, economy of operations, ease of maintenance, high performance
and exceptional safety record.
[](u-2.php)
## [U-2 Dragon Lady](u-2.php)
The U-2 provides high-altitude reconnaissance of an area in direct support of the United States
and allied ground and air forces. Although it was supposed to be succeeded by the SR-71
Blackbird, it remains in the skies whereas the Blackbirds are in museums.
[](xb-70.php)
## [XB-70 Valkyrie](xb-70.php)
The XB-70 is one of the world's most exotic aircraft that was conceived for the SAC in the 1950s
as a high-altitude bomber that could fly three times the speed of sound. Due to limitations
on funding, only two XB-70 aircraft were built for the advanced study of aerodynamics, propulsion,
and other related subjects of large supersonic aircraft.
[](ww2air.php)
## [Role of USAAF Aircraft During World War II](ww2air.php)
An essay discussing the role of Army Air Force aircraft from 1935-1945.
[](/)[](/news/)[](/help/)[](/legal/)[](/about/)[](/contact/)
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<meta name="description" content="This site contains information and cool stuff concerning many of the Prince of Persia games, including versions 1, 2, 3D, and the new ones." />
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<h1>Prince of Persia</h1>
<h2>Unofficial Website</h2>
</div>
<div id="navigation">
<ul>
<li><a href="index.html">Home</a></li>
<li><a href="about.html">About</a></li>
<li><a href="contact.html">Contact</a></li>
<li><a href="newsletter.html">Newsletter</a></li>
<li><a href="awards.html">Awards</a></li>
<li><a href="poll.html">Poll</a></li>
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</ul>
</div>
<div id="content">
<div id="gamesnostalgia"><br /><strong><a href="http://gamesnostalgia.com/en/story/154/legendary-game-designers-jordan-mechner">Check out the "Legendary Game Designers: Jordan Mechner" article at GamesNostalgia.com</a></strong><br /> </div>
<p class="intro">Welcome To Prince of Persia Unofficial Website!<br /> </p>
<div id="sidebar">
<h2>Select the game</h2>
<p>Click on a Prince of Persia game to enter its page:</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="index1.html" accesskey="1"><img src="images/logo_pop1.png" alt="Prince of Persia 1" /></a><br />
<a href="index1.html">Prince of Persia 1</a></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="index2.html" accesskey="2"><img src="images/logo_pop2.png" alt="Prince of Persia 2" /></a><br />
<a href="index2.html">Prince of Persia 2</a></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="index3.html" accesskey="3"><img src="images/logo_pop3d.png" alt="Prince of Persia 3D" /></a><br />
<a href="index3.html">Prince of Persia 3D</a></p>
</div>
<h1 class="alternative">Latest News</h1>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
Have you ever dreamed about creating your own level in good old Prince of Persia? Thanks to JiÅà VosláŠnow you can! :) Vote for the LEGO set of Prince of Persia! <a href="https://ideas.lego.com/projects/aa72a99a-1fe9-4fba-84c6-974022e9404e">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
Added PoP 2 magazine scans of PC Entertainment's Vol. 6 No. 3, May/June 1993 issue (special thanks to Eric Bloom). <a href="magazines.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
<strong>Prince of Persia 2 is now available in Hebrew language.</strong> <a href="download2.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
An improved Hebrew translation for Prince of Persia 1 v1.4 has been released. <a href="download.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
Prince of Persia 1 Atari XL/XE port has been released. <a href="atari.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
Prince of Persia 2.5: The Crystal Castle sixth release version 2 has been released. <a href="pop25.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-12-01</span>
Added PSP Material Pack includes DOSBox, SNES, Genesis, SEGA Mega CD, Java versions of all Prince of Persia games (thanks to ThunderStorM). <a href="psp.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-02-18</span>
Check out <strong><a href="pop25.html">Prince of Persia 2.5: The Crystal Castle</a></strong> - a fan made sequel to the original DOS 1989 and 1993 games in which you can continue playing as the heroic Prince of Persia, scaling towering height, avoiding traps, and finally come to terms with the Prince's most challenging adversary yet!</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-02-18</span>
A new mod for Prince of Persia 3D to fix combat has been released. <a href="mods3.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2021-01-30</span>
Added <strong>Prince of Persia 1 and 2 (DOS and Macintosh) CD Collection</strong>. Thanks to ThunderStorM. <a href="download.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2020-11-12</span>
Updated Prince of Persia 1 BK-11M page. <a href="bk0011m.html">Click here</a>.</p>
<p><span class="date">2020-07-25</span>
Added a new download link for <a href="arabian.html">Arabian Nights Italian PC version</a> (thanks to ThunderStorM).</p>
<p class="right"><a href="news.html">NEWS ARCHIVE</a></p>
</div>
<div id="footer">
<p>© 2002-2021 <a href="about.html">Jalal Noureddine</a> - Prince of Persia Unofficial Website</p>
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Prince of Persia Unofficial Website
# Prince of Persia
## Unofficial Website
* [Home](index.html)
* [About](about.html)
* [Contact](contact.html)
* [Newsletter](newsletter.html)
* [Awards](awards.html)
* [Poll](poll.html)
* [Disclaimer](disclaimer.html)
**[Check out the "Legendary Game Designers: Jordan Mechner" article at GamesNostalgia.com](http://gamesnostalgia.com/en/story/154/legendary-game-designers-jordan-mechner)**
Welcome To Prince of Persia Unofficial Website!
## Select the game
Click on a Prince of Persia game to enter its page:
[](index1.html)
[Prince of Persia 1](index1.html)
[](index2.html)
[Prince of Persia 2](index2.html)
[](index3.html)
[Prince of Persia 3D](index3.html)
# Latest News
2021-12-01
Have you ever dreamed about creating your own level in good old Prince of Persia? Thanks to JiÅà VosláŠnow you can! :) Vote for the LEGO set of Prince of Persia! [Click here](https://ideas.lego.com/projects/aa72a99a-1fe9-4fba-84c6-974022e9404e).
2021-12-01
Added PoP 2 magazine scans of PC Entertainment's Vol. 6 No. 3, May/June 1993 issue (special thanks to Eric Bloom). [Click here](magazines.html).
2021-12-01
**Prince of Persia 2 is now available in Hebrew language.** [Click here](download2.html).
2021-12-01
An improved Hebrew translation for Prince of Persia 1 v1.4 has been released. [Click here](download.html).
2021-12-01
Prince of Persia 1 Atari XL/XE port has been released. [Click here](atari.html).
2021-12-01
Prince of Persia 2.5: The Crystal Castle sixth release version 2 has been released. [Click here](pop25.html).
2021-12-01
Added PSP Material Pack includes DOSBox, SNES, Genesis, SEGA Mega CD, Java versions of all Prince of Persia games (thanks to ThunderStorM). [Click here](psp.html).
2021-02-18
Check out **[Prince of Persia 2.5: The Crystal Castle](pop25.html)** - a fan made sequel to the original DOS 1989 and 1993 games in which you can continue playing as the heroic Prince of Persia, scaling towering height, avoiding traps, and finally come to terms with the Prince's most challenging adversary yet!
2021-02-18
A new mod for Prince of Persia 3D to fix combat has been released. [Click here](mods3.html).
2021-01-30
Added **Prince of Persia 1 and 2 (DOS and Macintosh) CD Collection**. Thanks to ThunderStorM. [Click here](download.html).
2020-11-12
Updated Prince of Persia 1 BK-11M page. [Click here](bk0011m.html).
2020-07-25
Added a new download link for [Arabian Nights Italian PC version](arabian.html) (thanks to ThunderStorM).
[NEWS ARCHIVE](news.html)
© 2002-2021 [Jalal Noureddine](about.html) - Prince of Persia Unofficial Website
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top: 504px; left: 11px; width: 1076px; height: 131px; z-index: 1;"><table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td colspan="6" bgcolor="#9CCC92"><img height="3" width="1073" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=156&g=204&b=146"></td><td><img height="3" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=3&h=3&r2=156&g2=204&b2=146&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="5" bgcolor="#9CCC92"><img height="125" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=156&g=204&b=146"></td><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#3F9C2D"><img height="3" width="1070" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=63&g=156&b=45"></td><td rowspan="6" bgcolor="#255C1A"><img height="128" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#3F9C2D"><img height="122" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=63&g=156&b=45"></td><td colspan="2" bgcolor="#255C1A"><img height="3" width="1061" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td><td><img height="3" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=3&h=3&r=156&g=204&b=146&r2=37&g2=92&b2=26"></td><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#3F9C2D"><img height="122" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=63&g=156&b=45"></td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#255C1A"><img height="113" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td><td><img height="113" width="1058" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/tp.gif"></td><td rowspan="2" bgcolor="#9CCC92"><img height="116" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=156&g=204&b=146"></td></tr><tr><td><img height="3" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=3&h=3&r=156&g=204&b=146&r2=37&g2=92&b2=26"></td><td bgcolor="#9CCC92"><img height="3" width="1058" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=156&g=204&b=146"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#3F9C2D"><img height="3" width="1064" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=63&g=156&b=45"></td></tr><tr><td><img height="3" width="3" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=3&h=3&r2=156&g2=204&b2=146&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td><td colspan="5" bgcolor="#255C1A"><img height="3" width="1070" border="0" alt="" style="display: block;" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=37&g=92&b=26"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element109> --><!-- <hs:element8> --><div id="element8" style="position: absolute; top: 335px; left: 13px; width: 1066px; height: 156.44444274902344px; z-index: 2;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#FF0033" class="size24 Helvetica24"><b>Y</b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size16 Helvetica16"><b>our guide to outdoor adventures on lakes, streams and trails in Eastern North America begins here. About 36 years ago our founder rescued Kermit from a neighbor's trashcan. Since then, Kermit and his friends have been riding along on many wilderness excursions. Come join us. You may simply enjoy following our adventures or find valuable resources for putting together an adventure of your own. To bookmark this page and display the KA icon click on  -</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size16 Helvetica16"><b></b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element8> --><!-- <hs:element9> --><div id="element9" style="position: absolute; top: 1361px; left: 140px; width: 90px; height: 30px; z-index: 3;"><img height="30" width="90" style="display:block" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/Scripts_HitCounter/HitCounter.dll?CMD=CMDGetImage&HCID=11503880&style=Odometer&dw=112&dh=38&digits=4&borders=1"></div><!-- </hs:element9> --><!-- <hs:element10> --><div id="element10" style="position: absolute; top: 13px; left: 4px; width: 566px; height: 307px; z-index: 4;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 307px; width: 566px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="307" width="566" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="files/kermit_logo.jpg" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element10> --><!-- <hs:element13> --><div id="element13" style="position: absolute; top: 1369px; left: 427px; width: 291px; height: 19px; z-index: 5;"><font style="display:block" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif" class="size12 TimesRoman12" color="#0066FF">This site was last updated on: May 8, 2021</font></div><!-- </hs:element13> --><!-- <hs:element14> --><div id="element14" style="position: absolute; top: 1367px; left: 49px; width: 340px; height: 34px; z-index: 6;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12">You are the             visitor to this site.<br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element14> --><!-- <hs:element16> --><div id="element16" style="position: absolute; top: 1329px; left: 343px; width: 490px; height: 44px; z-index: 7;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size16 Helvetica16">Please feel free to make comments and suggestions.<br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element16> --><!-- <hs:element25> --><div id="element25" style="position: absolute; top: 13px; left: 592px; width: 331px; height: 210px; z-index: 8;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 210px; width: 331px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="210" width="331" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="files/kermit_gang.jpg" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element25> --><!-- <hs:element26> --><div id="element26" style="position: absolute; top: 226px; left: 618px; width: 294px; height: 30px; z-index: 9;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b>Kermit and his pals on the Spanish River</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element26> --><!-- <hs:element34> --><div id="element34" style="position: absolute; top: 13px; left: 1px; width: 71px; height: 52px; z-index: 10;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 52px; width: 71px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="52" width="71" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="files/canada_fl_md_wht.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element34> --><!-- <hs:element35> --><div id="element35" style="position: absolute; top: 15px; left: 491px; width: 82px; height: 57px; z-index: 11;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 57px; width: 82px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="57" width="82" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="files/usa_fl_md_wht.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element35> --><!-- <hs:element47> --><div id="element47" style="position: absolute; top: 1447px; left: 20px; width: 1053px; height: 196.111083984375px; z-index: 12;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size12 Helvetica12"><b>Policy & Declaration</b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b>:</b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size10 Helvetica10"> </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size14 Helvetica14">This website is intended to share wilderness experiences with others having the same interests. In doing so, the use of products may be recommended to help you in finding resources for your own adventures. In rare instances I may receive remuneration for recommendations and purchases made through this site. <br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size14 Helvetica14"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size12 Helvetica12"><b>Privacy</b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b>: </b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size14 Helvetica14">You can be assured that any personal information obtained by this site will not be divulged to others or used for commercial purposes.<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size8 Helvetica8"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size12 Helvetica12"><b>Disclaimer:</b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size14 Helvetica14"><b> </b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CC" class="size14 Helvetica14">Like any outdoor activity, traveling and wilderness canoeing has its own set of risks. Every individual is responsible for making his/her own judgments and should not consider the information given herein as being safe according to their own level of skills and environmental conditions. In other words, life is fragile and full of dangers. Don't blame me if it doesn't work for you.<br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element47> --><!-- <hs:element48> --><div id="element48" style="position: absolute; top: 450px; left: 205px; width: 216px; height: 27px; z-index: 13;"><a target="HSFriendlyAlert" href="/~media/elements/AddToFavorites/AddToFavorites.html" onclick="addToFavorites(document.location, document.title); return false;"><img height="27" width="216" style="display:block" border="0" alt="Add this page to your favorites." src="/~media/elements/AddToFavorites/beveled.gif"></a></div><!-- </hs:element48> --><!-- <hs:element62> --><div id="element62" style="position: absolute; top: 1421px; left: 44px; width: 1015px; height: 9px; z-index: 14;"><table cellpadding="0" width="1015" cellspacing="0" border="0"><tr><td colspan="2" bgcolor="#CCB17A"><img style="display: block;" height="2" width="1013" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=204&g=177&b=122"></td><td><img style="display: block;" height="2" width="2" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=2&h=2&r2=204&g2=177&b2=122&r=90&g=60&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#CCB17A"><img style="display: block;" height="5" width="2" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=204&g=177&b=122"></td><td bgcolor="#996600"><img style="display: block;" height="5" width="1011" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=153&g=102&b=0"></td><td bgcolor="#5A3C00"><img style="display: block;" height="5" width="2" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=90&g=60&b=0"></td></tr><tr><td><img style="display: block;" height="2" width="2" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetCornerGif&w=2&h=2&r2=204&g2=177&b2=122&r=90&g=60&b=0"></td><td colspan="2" bgcolor="#5A3C00"><img style="display: block;" height="2" width="1013" border="0" alt="" src="/~site/siteapps/shapes.action?CMD=GetRectangleGif&r=90&g=60&b=0"></td></tr></table></div><!-- </hs:element62> --><!-- <hs:element81> --><div id="element81" style="position: absolute; top: 937px; left: 120px; width: 393px; height: 82px; z-index: 15;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CE" class="size18 Helvetica18"><b><i>Bears</i></b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#406AB0" class="size18 Helvetica18"> </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b>Fear of bears keeps many people from enjoying the wilderness experience. Perhaps some truth will help to overcome irrational emotions. Go to our </b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b><a target="_blank" href="Tips.html">Tips & Facts</a></b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b> page.</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element81> --><!-- <hs:element82> --><div id="element82" style="position: absolute; top: 942px; left: 626px; width: 446px; height: 76px; z-index: 16;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CE" class="size18 Helvetica18"><b><i>Cold water</i></b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3333CE" class="size18 Helvetica18"> </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b>exposure can be deadly. </b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b><a target="_blank" href="Tips.html">Get the facts</a></b></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size10 Helvetica10"><b> to protect yourself and others whether you are winter canoeing or fishing for trout in the spring. </b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element82> --><!-- <hs:element84> --><div id="element84" style="position: absolute; top: 944px; left: 20px; width: 89px; height: 91px; z-index: 17;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 91px; width: 89px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="91" width="89" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="Black_Bear.jpg" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element84> --><!-- <hs:element31> --><div id="element31" style="position: absolute; top: 262px; left: 482px; width: 83px; height: 53px; z-index: 18;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 53px; width: 83px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="53" width="83" style="display: block; border-radius: 0px;" title="" alt="" src="files/fire_tents_bonfire_md_wht.gif" /></div></div><!-- </hs:element31> --><!-- <hs:element92> --><div id="element92" style="position: absolute; top: 520px; left: 450px; width: 245px; height: 24px; z-index: 19;"><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="center"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#3F9C2D" class="size14 Helvetica14"><b>SITE NAVIGATION</b><br></font></div></div><!-- </hs:element92> --><!-- <hs:element100> --><div id="element100" style="position: absolute; top: 546px; left: 224px; width: 709px; height: 70px; z-index: 20;"><div align="left"><SCRIPT type="text/javascript">var nav_element_id="element100";</SCRIPT><div id="nav_version" style="display:none;">1</div><SCRIPT TYPE="text/javascript" SRC="~navs/Navigation3.js"></SCRIPT><TABLE ID="ntb" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><TR ALIGN="CENTER" VALIGN="MIDDLE"><TD><TABLE BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0"><TR><TD NOWRAP HEIGHT="31" ALIGN="center" VALIGN="MIDDLE" 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or have, perchance, had to fight the wilds and nature for your very existence; you of the wilderness brotherhood can understand how the fever of exploration gets into one's blood and draws one back again to the forests and the barrens in spite of resolutions to "go no more."<br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="left"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size16 Helvetica16"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px;" align="center"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000" class="size16 Helvetica16"><i>To download the entire book click on the "Readings" tab above.</i><br></font></div></div></div><!-- </hs:element132> --><!-- <hs:element134> --><div id="element134" style="position: absolute; top: 944px; left: 526px; width: 84px; height: 90px; z-index: 29;"><div style="overflow: hidden; height: 90px; width: 84px; border: 0px solid #52A8EC; border-radius: 0px; box-shadow: none;"><img height="90" width="84" style="display: block; 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Kermit Wilderness Adventures
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**Y****our guide to outdoor adventures on lakes, streams and trails in Eastern North America begins here. About 36 years ago our founder rescued Kermit from a neighbor's trashcan. Since then, Kermit and his friends have been riding along on many wilderness excursions. Come join us. You may simply enjoy following our adventures or find valuable resources for putting together an adventure of your own. To bookmark this page and display the KA icon click on  -**
This site was last updated on: May 8, 2021You are the             visitor to this site.
Please feel free to make comments and suggestions.
**Kermit and his pals on the Spanish River**
**Policy & Declaration****:**Â This website is intended to share wilderness experiences with others having the same interests. In doing so, the use of products may be recommended to help you in finding resources for your own adventures. In rare instances I may receive remuneration for recommendations and purchases made through this site.Â
**Privacy****:Â**You can be assured that any personal information obtained by this site will not be divulged to others or used for commercial purposes.
**Disclaimer:****Â**Like any outdoor activity, traveling and wilderness canoeing has its own set of risks. Every individual is responsible for making his/her own judgments and should not consider the information given herein as being safe according to their own level of skills and environmental conditions. In other words, life is fragile and full of dangers. Don't blame me if it doesn't work for you.
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***Bears***Â **Fear of bears keeps many people from enjoying the wilderness experience. Perhaps some truth will help to overcome irrational emotions. Go to ourÂ****[Tips & Facts](Tips.html)****Â page.**
***Cold water***Â **exposure can be deadly.Â****[Get the facts](Tips.html)****Â to protect yourself and others whether you are winter canoeing or fishing for trout in the spring.Â**
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**Quotation**
**From Dillon Wallace in "The Long Labrador Trail"**
You who have smelled the camp fire smoke; who have drunk in the pure forest air, laden with the smell of the fir tree; who have dipped your paddle into untamed waters, or climbed mountains, with the knowledge that none but the red man has been there before you; or have, perchance, had to fight the wilds and nature for your very existence; you of the wilderness brotherhood can understand how the fever of exploration gets into one's blood and draws one back again to the forests and the barrens in spite of resolutions to "go no more."
*To download the entire book click on the "Readings" tab above.*
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**[Kermarita Recipe](Tips.html)**
**Click on the Link above and scroll to the bottom of the page.**
**(Revised May 2021)**
**MOST RECENT ADDITIONS**
**[Click Here to read about the the humorous failed wilderness trip of 2011.Â](Manicougan-Lake.html)**
**[Manicouagan Lake](Manicougan-Lake.html)**
**[Quebec, Canada](Manicougan-Lake.html)**
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Ham Radio
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Skip all this, and tell me a little about ham radio - just the basics, please!
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<div>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio" target="_blank">Amateur (ham) radio</a>
is a medium by which people can communicate on specific
<a href="http://www.arrl.org/graphical-frequency-allocations" target="_blank">frequency</a>
ranges designated by the <a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp" target="_blank">FCC</a>
for personal, hobby, educational / training, or emergency purposes. While the
Ratzlaff family uses ham radio for some or all these purposes at various times,
our primary use of ham radio is for
<a href="https://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness/guidelines-for-emergency-communication?lang=eng" target="_blank">emergency communications</a>
in the interest of <a href="https://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness" target="_blank">family preparedness</a>
and their associated training.
We have six licensed ham radio operators in our family at DN40dh
(ITU Region 2, CQ Zone 3, ITU Zone 6, Call Sign Area 7,
DXCC Entity 291, GPS 40.297161, -111.6950295):
<table style="width:900px; margin-top:10px; margin-bottom:10px;">
<tr style="text-align:center;">
<td>
Noji Ratzlaff (<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3488827" target="_blank">KNØJI</a>)
</td>
<td>
Lisa Ratzlaff (<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3486634" target="_blank">KR5LYS</a>)
</td>
<td>
Ricky Ratzlaff (<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3517889" target="_blank">KDØWRV</a>)
</td>
<td>
Katie Ratzlaff (<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3921406" target="_blank">KI7NQD</a>)
</td>
<td>
Dani Reed (<a href="https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=4252664" target="_blank">KJ7MOM</a>)
</td>
<td>
Eric Ratzlaff (<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3493207" target="_blank">KG7EKY</a>)
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<div>
For those who would like to get into ham radio, or who
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php">just want to know something about it</a>,
we've put together a few resources to help you.
</div>
<div>
<h2>Helpful ham pages</h2>
<ul>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
About — What is ham radio?
</a>basic overview
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/faq.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
FAQ
</a>because you have a lot of questions
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Study and Licensing
</a>exam material, class material, where and
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#recommended_study_method" title="How to use HamStudy.org to get your license quickly">how to study</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/glossary.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Glossary
</a>terms, acronyms, phrases, jargon, codes, and even a few pics
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
New Hams
</a>where to start once you get your license, or will soon get your license
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Equipment
</a>what to buy, where to buy them,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#programming" title="Program your radio manually or by software">programming</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#personal_recommendations">recommendations</a>,
manuals, specs,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#diy" title="Do-it-yourself projects">DIY</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/repeaters.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Repeaters
</a>how to use them, terminology, listings in and near Utah, links to other listings
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Frequencies
</a>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#amateur">amateur</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#non_amateur">FRS, GMRS, CB, MURS</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#official">police, fire, EMS, Utah County</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#programming" title="Program your radio manually or by software">programming</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#coordination" title="Frequency coordination and band plans">coordination</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Groups
</a>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php#clubs">amateur radio clubs</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php#service" title="ARES, RACES, CERT, etc.">ARES, RACES, TERT, ERC</a>,
other service organizations
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Nets
</a>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#club_nets" title="Club and group nets on VHF and UHF">club</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#church_nets" title="Nets sponsored by religious organizations">church (faith-based)</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#community_nets" title="Non-religious community nets on VHF and UHF">community</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#emergency_nets" title="Emergency and public safety (typically government-sponsored) nets">emergency</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#HF_nets" title="Non-religious nets on HF">HF</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#santa_nets" title="Talk with Santa on ham radio!">Santa</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Training Topics
</a>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#regular" title="For social and other non-service nets">regular</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#service" title="For service, preparedness, emergency, and CERT nets">service</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#other" title="For other types of nets, or no nets at all">other</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#technical" title="For slightly more technically oriented nets">technical</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Education
</a>how stuff works,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#antennas">antenna theory</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#grounding">grounding</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#propagation">propagation</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#digital">digital</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#filters">filters</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#debunked">myths</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#preparedness">preparedness</a>,
articles
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Resources
</a>FCC (government), ARRL (regulatory), VEC,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#software" title="Logging, SDR, programming, analyzing, etc., apps">software</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#events" title="Hamfests, hamventions, swap meets, Field Day, others">events</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#call_sign" title="Rules, vanity, license plates, search, etc.">vanity call signs</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#call_sign_license_plates">license plates</a>,
other
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
More
</a>ham radio topics
(<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#morse_code">Morse code</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#noji_action">Amateurs in Action</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#history">ham radio history</a>)
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Enter-Button.png" style="width:60px; margin-bottom:6px; margin-top:4px; vertical-align:middle;" />
Other
</a>ham radio links
(<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/contesting.php" title="Competitive contacting, dates, rules, etc.">contests</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/help.php">troubleshooting</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamphotos.php">photos / videos</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamtrivia.php" title="Thoughtful, fun, and junk">trivia</a>,
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/humor.php" title="Because we enjoy laughing at ourselves">humor</a>)
</ul>
<h2>Non-ham pages</h2>
<ul>
<a href="https://noji.com/space/space.php" title="International Space Station, SpaceWeather, satellites, etc." style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Space
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/weather/weather.php" title="Forecasts, severe, atmospheric, etc." style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Weather
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/time/time.php" title="World clocks, time conversions, etc." style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Time
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/emp/emp.php" title="What's all the fuss about?" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
EMP
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/science/science.php" title="Catch-all page of science topics" style="font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Science
</a>
</ul>
</div>
<div>
<table style="border-style:solid; font-size:18px; margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:5px; width:700px; padding:5px;">
<td style="text-align:center; font-weight:bold; font-size:24px; color:red;">
Quick Links
</td>
<tr>
<td>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q200">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
What radio and antenna you should get first
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://uvarc.club/join/" target="_blank">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Join the Utah Valley Amateur Radio Club
</a>
and
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/uvarc/" target="_blank">
Facebook group
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/uvarc/shack/UVARC-Shack.pdf" target="_blank">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Latest issue of the club newsletter
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q900">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Ham radio best practices
</a>(etiquette)
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q860">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
How to apply for a vanity call sign
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q660">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Give somebody a First Contact Award
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/contesting.php">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Upcoming contests
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q540">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
What to do in an actual emergency
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#noji_articles">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Noji articles
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#personal_recommendations">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
My personal gear recommendations
</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<table style="border-style:solid; font-size:18px; margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:5px; width:700px; padding:5px;">
<td style="text-align:center; font-weight:bold; font-size:24px; color:red;">
Quick Ham Study and Licensing Links
</td>
<tr>
<td>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#recommended_study_method" title="How to use HamStudy.org to get your license quickly">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Recommended Study Method
</a>
<br />
<a href="http://psclass.orem.org/" target="_blank">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Sign up for an Orem City ham radio course
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#exam_guidelines" title="No audio available">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Ham radio exam guidelines
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#exam_sessions">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Utah exam sessions
</a>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#ham_radio_course_ppts" title="No audio available">
<img src="/img/Blue-Dot.gif" class="centerDot" />
Ham radio course slide show PPTs
</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div>
<h2>Other ham stuff</h2>
<ul>
<a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp" target="_blank">
FCC Ham Radio License Search
</a>
(or <a href="http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp" target="_blank">any FCC license</a>)
<br /><br />
<form action="https://www.qrz.com/db/" method="get" target="_blank">
QRZ search
<input class="textbox" name="callsign" type="text" size="12" maxlength="12" onkeydown="touppercase(this)" />
or
<a href="https://qrz.com/" target="_blank">
QRZ main page
</a>
and
<a href="https://www.qrz.com/logbook/" target="_blank">
logbook
</a>(log in for full privileges)
</form>
<!--
Subscribed 05-20-2014 $49.93 for three years, expires 05-20-2017
Paid 04-24-2017 $49.93 for three more years, expires 05-20-2020
-->
<br /><br />
<a href="https://lcwo.net/" target="_blank">
Morse Code practice
</a>(must log in)
<br />
<table>
<tr>
<td style="padding-left:0px;">
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/pdf-ppt/reference/Amateur-Radio-Band-Chart.pdf" target="_blank">
Amateur Radio Frequency Band Allocation Chart
</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/pdf-ppt/reference/Amateur-Radio-Band-Chart-2012.pdf" target="_blank">
2012 PDF
</a>
[PDF] and
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Band-Allocation-Chart-2012.png" target="_blank">
2012 PNG
</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="http://utahvhfs.org/bandplan1.html" target="_blank">
Utah VHF / UHF Band Plan
</a>(plus 10 m and 6 m)
<br /><br />
<a href="http://utahvhfs.org/simpfreq1.html" target="_blank">
Utah Simplex VHF / UHF Band Plan
</a>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:10px; text-align:center;">
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Band-Allocation-Chart-2017.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Band-Allocation-Chart-2017.jpg" style="margin-top:5px; width:200px; vertical-align:middle;" alt="[Band Allocation Chart]" />
</a>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:100px; text-align:center;">
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Card-KN0JI.png" target="_blank">
<img src="https://noji.com/hamradio/img/Card-KN0JI.png" style="margin-top:5px; width:260px; vertical-align:middle;" alt="[My Card]" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
take my card
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h3>Current radio and weather conditions</h3>
<ul>
(None of these are live, so reload this page to refresh the data)
</ul>
<table>
<tr>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<a href="http://www.hamqsl.com/solar.html" title="Click to add Solar-Terrestrial Data to your website!">
<img src="http://www.hamqsl.com/solar101vhf.php" style="width:420px;" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
the lower the A<sub>P</sub> (0 through 400) and K<sub>P</sub> (0 through 9) the better
<br />
(SFI = solar flux index, SN = sunspot number)
</span>
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/pdf-ppt/noji/Noji-Article-Band-Conditions-Banner.pdf" target="_blank">
How to decipher this banner
</a>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:20px;">
<a href="http://www.hamqsl.com/solar.html" title="Click to add Solar-Terrestrial Data to your website!">
<img src="http://www.hamqsl.com/solarmuf.php" style="width:420px;"/>
</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<table>
<tr>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<a href="https://www.weatherforyou.com/weather/utah/orem.html" target="_blank">
<img src="https://www.weatherforyou.net/fcgi-bin/hw3/hw3.cgi?config=png&forecast=zandh&alt=hwiws&place=orem&state=ut&country=us&daysonly=0&maxdays=1" style="margin-top:5px; width:300px; vertical-align:middle; margin-left:5px;" />
</a>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<script type="text/javascript" src="//rh.revolvermaps.com/0/0/1.js?i=7czog3y89zh&s=240&m=0&v=false&r=false&b=000000&n=false&c=ff69b4" async="async"></script>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
pink dots mark visitor locations since 01-25-2015
</span>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<a href="http://hrdlog.net/" target="_blank">
<img id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_ImgProp" src="http://hrdlog.net/graph.aspx?type=p" style="width:290px; border-width:0px;" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
number of QSOs vs. maximum QSO distance
<br />
(SF = solar flux index, SN = sunspot number)
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<table>
<tr>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<a href="http://hrdlog.net/map.aspx" target="_blank" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_HlMap">
<img src="http://hrdlog.net/map.aspx" style="width:540px; height:290px; border-width:0px;" Name="ImgMap" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_ImgMaps" title="Click to enlarge" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
latest spotted QSOs
</span>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<div id="rigref-solar-widget"></div>
<script type="text/javascript">
(function() {
var a = document.createElement('a');
var i = document.createElement('img');
var s = document.getElementById('rigref-solar-widget');
a.href = ('http://rigreference.com/solar');
a.target = '_blank';
i.src = ('http://rigreference.com/solar/latest/tall');
i.border = 0;
a.appendChild(i);s.appendChild(a);
})();
</script>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:40px; text-align:center;">
<a href="http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html" target="_blank">
VOACAP
</a>band open predictor
<br />
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#band_conditions">
More band conditions
</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<br /><br />
<div>
<!-- VHF&up propagation ticker. Copyright by WWW.DXMAPS.COM -->
<!-- ===================================================== -->
<!-- You can add this ticker to your own Internet WEB pages, however using it in ANY other way -->
<!-- (in programs, applications, etc.) is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. All uses of this ticker are -->
<!-- logged and monitored in order to detect abuses and misuses. -->
<!-- To download the code you have to add to your pages, go to https://www.dxmaps.com/spots/addticker.html -->
<!--
<iframe name="DXMAPSna"
src="https://www.dxmaps.com/spots/tickerna.html"
marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no" height="144" align="middle" width="804">
Internet Explorer does not admit floating frames or it's not configured to show them.
</iframe>
-->
</div>
<br /><br />
<h3>Other interesting amateur radio-related links</h3>
<table>
<tr>
<td style="padding-left:40px;">
<a href="http://www.hamdata.com/" target="_blank">
Hamdata
</a>(interesting ham radio and licensing statistics)
<br />
<a href="http://silentkeyhq.com/main.php4?p=research.php4&dbName=fcc" target="_blank">
Call sign history
</a>(ham research / SK database)
<br />
<a href="https://haminfo.tetranz.com/map" target="_blank">
Call signs nearby
</a>(map of nearby call signs)
<br />
<a href="https://www.hamqth.com/" target="_blank">
HamQTH
</a>(info on individual call signs)
</td>
<td style="padding-left:10px; text-align:center;">
<a href="https://noji.com/ratzlaff/Ratzlaff-Home-150101.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="https://noji.com/ratzlaff/Ratzlaff-Home-150101.jpg" style="width:320px; vertical-align:middle;" alt="[Ratzlaff Home 2015]" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
Ratzlaff home at sunset on New Year's Day 2015
</span>
</td>
<td style="padding-left:10px; text-align:center;">
<a href="https://noji.com/ratzlaff/Ratzlaff-Home-180221.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="https://noji.com/ratzlaff/Ratzlaff-Home-180221.jpg" style="width:280px; vertical-align:middle;" alt="[Ratzlaff Home 2018]" />
</a>
<br />
<span style="font-size:80%;">
Ratzlaff home Feb 2018
</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</ul>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:10px; text-align:center;">
<a href="http://info.flagcounter.com/3Dwv">
<img src="http://s03.flagcounter.com/count/3Dwv/bg_E3FFFD/txt_000000/border_FCFCFC/columns_5/maxflags_120/viewers_Visitors+to+this+page+from/labels_1/pageviews_1/flags_0/" alt="Flag Counter" border="0" />
</a>
<!-- Started 11-04-2014 -- password = 33042 -->
<a href="http://s03.flagcounter.com/more/Ydu">
<img src="http://s03.flagcounter.com/count_US/Ydu/bg_E3FFFD/txt_000000/border_FCFCFC/columns_5/maxflags_55/viewers_US+visitors+to+this+page+from/labels_1/pageviews_1/flags_0/" alt="Flag Counter" border="0" />
</a>
<!-- Started 03-03-2015 -- password = 97439 -->
</div>
Questions? Ask <a href="https://noji.com/util/Mail-Handler.php?emailSubject=Ham Radio Information&dest=kn0ji" target="_blank">Noji (KNØJI)</a> <span class="flush_right" style="font-style:italic;">Like what you see? Please consider a small <a href="https://paypal.me/nojiratz">donation</a></span>
</div> <div class="ham_menu" style="margin-top:10px; margin-bottom:10px;" id="HamMenu">
<ul>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamradio.php" title="Noji's ham radio top page">
Ham Home
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php" title="About (introduction to) ham radio">
About
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/faq.php" title="Frequently answered questions about ham radio">
FAQ
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php" title="Ham radio exam study resources">
Study
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/glossary.php" title="Ham radio glossary">
Glossary
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php" title="What to do, now that you have your ham radio license">
New Ham
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php" title="Recommended and other ham radio equipment resource">
Equipment
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/repeaters.php" title="Listing of Utah ham radio repeaters">
Repeaters
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php" title="What frequencies you can use">
Frequencies
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php" title="Ham radio clubs, teams, organizations, and other groups">
Groups
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php" title="Local and HF ham radio nets">
Nets
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php" title="Discussion topics you can present on the air">
Training
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php" title="Learn about ham radio details">
Education
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php" title="Ham radio resources">
Resources
</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php" title="More ham radio links">
More
</a>
</li>
</ul>
</div> <hr class="redLine" />
<div style="font-size:90%;" id="MainFooter">
<i>All trademarks and registered trademarks cited herein are the property of their respective owners</i>
<br />
<i class="flush_left">Copyright © 2023 Ratzlaff Family</i>
(report problems and suggestions to <a href="https://noji.com/util/Mail-Handler.php?emailSubject=Ham Radio Info (Version 1.0.7.2023-02-18)&dest=support" target="_blank">Ratzlaff Support</a>)
<span class="flush_right" style="font-size:80%;">(Version 1.0.7.2023-02-18 [<script type="text/javascript">document.write(browserFlag);</script>])</span>
</div> </body>
</html>
|
Ham Radio Information
body
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}
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{
padding-left: 10px;
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Ham Radio
[](http://www.arrl.org/)
* [Home](https://noji.com/ "Noji's home page")
* [Karate](https://noji.com/karate/shotokan.php "About Shotokan karate")
* [Restaurants](https://noji.com/restaurants/restaurants.php "Listing of local restaurants")
* [Ham Radio](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamradio.php "About ham radio")
* [LDS](https://noji.com/lds/lds.php "About the LDS Church")
* [Family](https://noji.com/ratzlaff/ratzlaff.php "About the Ratzlaff family")
* [Prep](https://noji.com/prep/prep.php "Family preparedness")
* [Signs](http://english-signs.com/ "English Signs")
* [Random](https://noji.com/random/random.php "Random stuff")
* [Email](https://noji.com/util/Mail-Handler.php "Send an email")
[Skip all this, and tell me a little about ham radio - just the basics, please!](https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php)
[Amateur (ham) radio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio)
is a medium by which people can communicate on specific
[frequency](http://www.arrl.org/graphical-frequency-allocations)
ranges designated by the [FCC](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp)
for personal, hobby, educational / training, or emergency purposes. While the
Ratzlaff family uses ham radio for some or all these purposes at various times,
our primary use of ham radio is for
[emergency communications](https://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness/guidelines-for-emergency-communication?lang=eng)
in the interest of [family preparedness](https://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness)
and their associated training.
We have six licensed ham radio operators in our family at DN40dh
(ITU Region 2, CQ Zone 3, ITU Zone 6, Call Sign Area 7,
DXCC Entity 291, GPS 40.297161, -111.6950295):
| | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
Noji Ratzlaff ([KNØJI](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3488827))
|
Lisa Ratzlaff ([KR5LYS](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3486634))
|
Ricky Ratzlaff ([KDØWRV](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3517889))
|
Katie Ratzlaff ([KI7NQD](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3921406))
|
Dani Reed ([KJ7MOM](https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=4252664))
|
Eric Ratzlaff ([KG7EKY](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=3493207))
|
For those who would like to get into ham radio, or who
[just want to know something about it](https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php),
we've put together a few resources to help you.
## Helpful ham pages
[
About — What is ham radio?](https://noji.com/hamradio/about.php) basic overview
[
FAQ](https://noji.com/hamradio/faq.php) because you have a lot of questions
[
Study and Licensing](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php) exam material, class material, where and
[how to study](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#recommended_study_method "How to use HamStudy.org to get your license quickly")
[
Glossary](https://noji.com/hamradio/glossary.php) terms, acronyms, phrases, jargon, codes, and even a few pics
[
New Hams](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php) where to start once you get your license, or will soon get your license
[
Equipment](https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php) what to buy, where to buy them,
[programming](https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#programming "Program your radio manually or by software"),
[recommendations](https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#personal_recommendations),
manuals, specs,
[DIY](https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#diy "Do-it-yourself projects")
[
Repeaters](https://noji.com/hamradio/repeaters.php) how to use them, terminology, listings in and near Utah, links to other listings
[
Frequencies](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php)
[amateur](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#amateur),
[FRS, GMRS, CB, MURS](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#non_amateur),
[police, fire, EMS, Utah County](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#official),
[programming](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#programming "Program your radio manually or by software"),
[coordination](https://noji.com/hamradio/frequencies.php#coordination "Frequency coordination and band plans")
[
Groups](https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php)
[amateur radio clubs](https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php#clubs),
[ARES, RACES, TERT, ERC](https://noji.com/hamradio/groups.php#service "ARES, RACES, CERT, etc."),
other service organizations
[
Nets](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php)
[club](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#club_nets "Club and group nets on VHF and UHF"),
[church (faith-based)](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#church_nets "Nets sponsored by religious organizations"),
[community](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#community_nets "Non-religious community nets on VHF and UHF"),
[emergency](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#emergency_nets "Emergency and public safety (typically government-sponsored) nets"),
[HF](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#HF_nets "Non-religious nets on HF"),
[Santa](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamnets.php#santa_nets "Talk with Santa on ham radio!")
[
Training Topics](https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php)
[regular](https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#regular "For social and other non-service nets"),
[service](https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#service "For service, preparedness, emergency, and CERT nets"),
[other](https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#other "For other types of nets, or no nets at all"),
[technical](https://noji.com/hamradio/training.php#technical "For slightly more technically oriented nets")
[
Education](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php) how stuff works,
[antenna theory](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#antennas),
[grounding](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#grounding),
[propagation](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#propagation),
[digital](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#digital),
[filters](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#filters),
[myths](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#debunked),
[preparedness](https://noji.com/hamradio/education.php#preparedness),
articles
[
Resources](https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php) FCC (government), ARRL (regulatory), VEC,
[software](https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#software "Logging, SDR, programming, analyzing, etc., apps"),
[events](https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#events "Hamfests, hamventions, swap meets, Field Day, others"),
[vanity call signs](https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#call_sign "Rules, vanity, license plates, search, etc."),
[license plates](https://noji.com/hamradio/resources.php#call_sign_license_plates),
other
[
More](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php) ham radio topics
([Morse code](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#morse_code),
[Amateurs in Action](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#noji_action),
[ham radio history](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#history))
[
Other](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php) ham radio links
([contests](https://noji.com/hamradio/contesting.php "Competitive contacting, dates, rules, etc."),
[troubleshooting](https://noji.com/hamradio/help.php),
[photos / videos](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamphotos.php),
[trivia](https://noji.com/hamradio/hamtrivia.php "Thoughtful, fun, and junk"),
[humor](https://noji.com/hamradio/humor.php "Because we enjoy laughing at ourselves"))
## Non-ham pages
[
Space](https://noji.com/space/space.php "International Space Station, SpaceWeather, satellites, etc.")
[
Weather](https://noji.com/weather/weather.php "Forecasts, severe, atmospheric, etc.")
[
Time](https://noji.com/time/time.php "World clocks, time conversions, etc.")
[
EMP](https://noji.com/emp/emp.php "What's all the fuss about?")
[
Science](https://noji.com/science/science.php "Catch-all page of science topics")
Quick Links
|| [What radio and antenna you should get first](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q200)
[Join the Utah Valley Amateur Radio Club](https://uvarc.club/join/)
and
[Facebook group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/uvarc/)
[Latest issue of the club newsletter](https://noji.com/hamradio/uvarc/shack/UVARC-Shack.pdf)
[Ham radio best practices](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q900) (etiquette)
[How to apply for a vanity call sign](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q860)
[Give somebody a First Contact Award](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q660)
[Upcoming contests](https://noji.com/hamradio/contesting.php)
[What to do in an actual emergency](https://noji.com/hamradio/newham.php#q540)
[Noji articles](https://noji.com/hamradio/moreham.php#noji_articles)
[My personal gear recommendations](https://noji.com/hamradio/equipment.php#personal_recommendations) |
Quick Ham Study and Licensing Links
|| [Recommended Study Method](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#recommended_study_method "How to use HamStudy.org to get your license quickly")
[Sign up for an Orem City ham radio course](http://psclass.orem.org/)
[Ham radio exam guidelines](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#exam_guidelines "No audio available")
[Utah exam sessions](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#exam_sessions)
[Ham radio course slide show PPTs](https://noji.com/hamradio/study.php#ham_radio_course_ppts "No audio available") |
## Other ham stuff
[FCC Ham Radio License Search](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp)
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<nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_eyelet.htm">Eyelet Presses</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_miscellaneous.htm">Paper Fasteners & Paper Fastener Punches</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_single_staple.htm">Single Staple Machines</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_magazine.htm">Magazine Stapling Machines</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_wire_spool.htm">Wire Spool Stapling Machines</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_strip.htm">Strip Staple Machines</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target="" href="stapler_gallery_stapleless.htm">Stapleless Paper Fasteners</a> ]</nobr> <nobr>[ <a target=""
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<h1 align="center"><font face="Charlemagne"><a name="Top"></a>Early Office Museum</font></h1>
<h1 align="center">Antique
Staplers & Other Paper Fasteners</h1>
<p><br />
Expansion in the volume of papers generated and stored in offices during the second half of the
nineteenth century created a demand for efficient ways to fasten papers together. As part
of our research at the Museum, we have investigated the development of early
staplers and other mechanical devices
that were sold to meet this demand between the 1850s and early 1940s. The
old paper fastening machines
discussed here were used not only to insert and clinch staples but also to insert other
types of paper fasteners, such as eyelets, and to attach papers together without the use
of fasteners by cutting and folding or crimping the papers themselves.
</p>
<p align="left"><strong>Before Metallic Paper Fasteners:</strong> Metallic paper fasteners and machines to insert them began to arrive on the market in the late 1850s and were widely advertised from 1866 onward. Before these specialized paper fastening devices were available, the types of documents that today are stapled together were fastened in a number of ways that did not make use of metallic fasteners or mechanical devices. Papers were held together by any one of the following:</p>
1. Stitches made with a needle and thread<br>
2. Paper or wax seals or wafers (which were marketed for use in sealing envelopes)<br>
3. Strings, cloth tapes, or ribbons that were inserted through parallel incisions made with a penknife, then tied, and sometimes secured with paper or wax seals to prevent tampering with the document<br>
4. Lines or dots of paste or glue<br>
5. Straight pins<br>
6. Strings or ribbons tied around groups of papers<br>
7. Rubber bands placed around groups of papers</p>
While metallic paper fasteners and machines to insert them caught on quickly, the seven methods of fastening papers that are listed immediately above were still used for decades. For example, in the early 1900s paper clips were sometimes advertised as a superior alternative to pins for fastening papers. Next we provide information about the 19th century use of a few of the methods of fastening papers listed immediately above.</p>
<p align="left"><strong>Needle and Thread:</strong> A document published in 1858 states: "The Candidates should leave their answers at their seats (with the Examination papers attached to them), after having carefully filed them all together in order through the upper left hand corner. A supply of silk twist and some large needles should be provided for this purpose." (<i>Journal of the Society of Arts</i>, v. 6, London, England, 1858, p. 577)
<p align="left"><strong>Sealing Wax:</strong> Sealing wax was used to authenticate and seal documents long before the 19th century. In the 19th century, F. M. Butler of New York, NY, exhibited sealing wax at
the Exhibition of the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association,
Boston, in 1837. Waterlow & Sons, London,
exhibited sealing wax in 1855, and Thaddeus Davids & Co.,
New York, NY, did so in 1876. </p>
<strong>Paste and Glue:</strong> It seems likely that lines and dots of paste and glue were used to fasten papers well before the 19th century, but our research goes back only to the second half of the 19th century. The following question and answer appear in 1860 testimony: Question: "Did the paper handed to you in the saloon in fact consist of two papers attached together by mucilage?" Answer: "It did." (Miscellaneous Documents of the US House of Representatives, 36th Congress, 1st Session, Mis. Doc. No. 12, 1860, p. 52) Mucilage, a water-soluble glue made from plants,
was advertised along with other office supplies by Richard B. Dovell's Son & Co. and by Samuel S.
Stafford, both New York, NY, in 1867, and by Carter Bros. & Co.,
Boston, MA, and Chase & Bush, Philadelphia, PA, in 1868. A number of sellers exhibited mucilage along
with other office supplies at the 1876 International Exhibition. At least as late as 1912, well after numerous types of metallic paper fasteners had been placed on the market and widely adopted, mucilage was promoted as an alternative to paper clips for fastening papers. See the image on the right immediately below.<br>
</p>
<p align="center">
<a href="IMagesWWW/1881_Morgans_Mucilage.jpg">
<img border="1" alt="1881_Morgans_Mucilage.jpg (79427 bytes)" width="99" height="101" src="IMagesWWW/1881_Morgans_Mucilage_small.jpg" /></a> <font size = "1">Morgan's Mucilage, 1881
<a href="1911_Mucilage_bottles.jpg">
<img border="1" alt="1911_Mucilage_bottles.jpg (84971 bytes)" width="99" height="146" src="1911_Mucilage_bottles_small.jpg" /></a> Carter's Mucilage, 1911
<a href="1912 Mucilage instead of paper clips from Business.jpg">
<img border="1" alt="1912 Mucilage instead of paper clips from Business.jpg (84971 bytes)" width="100" height="96" src="1912 Mucilage instead of paper clips from Business small.jpg" /></a> Mucilage Compared to Paper Clips, <i>Business</i>, 1912</font></p>
<p align="left"><strong>Straight Pins:</strong> Mass production of straight pins began in the first half of the 19th century, and it seems likely that straight pins were used to fasten papers once they were mass produced if not before. The photo below shows Pyramid Pins of the type sold for fastening papers in offices
as well as for many uses in homes by the New England Pin Co., Winsted, CT. In 1878, Charles J. Cohen,
Philadelphia, PA, advertised Pyramid Pins in a similar circular holder
patented in 1871. An an ad for Pyramid Pins in a circular holder with a label similar to that in the photo here appeared in 1910. </p>
<p align="center">
<a href="Pryamid_Toilet_Pins_New_England_Pin_Co._Winsted_CT_OM.JPG"><img border="1" alt="Pryamid_Toilet_Pins_New_England_Pin_Co._Winsted_CT_OM.JPG (55926 bytes)" align="middle" width="100" height="96" src="Pryamid_Toilet_Pins_New_England_Pin_Co._Winsted_CT_OM_small.JPG" /></a><br><font size = "1">Pyramid Pins</font></p>
<p align="left"><strong>Red Tape:</strong> The earliest reference we have found to use of red tape to tie papers is: "a bundle of papers, ty'd with red tape." (<i>The Proceedings at the Sessions of the Peace, and Oyer and Terminer, for the City of London</i>, 1730, p. 245) However, the use of red tape to tie a book containing notes and papers in 1708 suggests that red tape may have been used to tie papers by the very early 18th century. In any event, 19th century publications--particularly British ones--make many references to use of red tape for tying papers. The term "red tape" was used in its current figurative sense by 1833: "He hates the projects for centralising every thing in London, and putting the government of red tape and green ferrit in place of the time-honoured institutions of King Alfred." (<i>Fraser's Magazine for Town and Country</i>, v. 8, Oct. 1833, p. 488. Green ferrit or ferret is string or tape made from silk filaments and dyed green. In Britain during the 19th century, particularly during the early 1800s, it was sometimes used in the same manner as red tape.) The image below on the left shows an 1880 advertisement for red tape and green silk ferret along with other types of office supplies.</p>
<p align="center"><a href="1880 Shaw's Sundries including red tape and green ferret.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1880 Shaw's Sundries including red tape and green ferret small.jpg (55926 bytes)" align="middle" width="100" height="95" src="1880 Shaw's Sundries including red tape and green ferret.jpg" /></a><br>
<font size ="1">1880 Advertisement for Red Tape and Green Silk Ferret</font></p>
<p align="left">
<strong>Rubber Bands:</strong> Charles Slack states that the British firm Perry & Co. introduced the
rubber band in 1844, and that a licensee of Goodyear made rubber bands
around the same time in the US. (<em>Noble Obsession: Charles Goodyear,
Thomas Handcock, and the Race to Unlock the Greatest Industrial Secret of
the Nineteenth Century</em>, 2002, pp. 144, 155) We found
Perry's India rubber bands being offered for sale, along with stationery supplies, including wax and wafers for sealing envelopes, by a company in Calcutta, India, in 1848. (<i>D'Rozario & Co.'s Library. Books, Pictures, Stationery & Miscellaneous Articles</i>, Calcutta, 1848) We also found references to India rubber bands among office supplies in publications throughout the following decades. Waterlow & Sons, London, advertised pins, elastic bands, and red tape
in 1855. Geo. N. Davis & Brother, Boston, MA, advertised rubber
stationers' bands in 1856. (<em>Illustrated and Descriptive Catalogue
and Trade-Price List of India Rubber and Gutta Percha Goods</em>) </p>
<p align="left"><strong>Brass Paper Fasteners:</strong> H. W. Hall received an English patent for a brass paper fastener with two legs that the user inserted through a slit in papers and then bent outward in opposite directions. Unaware of the Hale patent, the US patent office awarded a patent for a brass paper fastener with the same fundamental characteristics to George W. McGill in 1866. The McGill paper fasteners were immediately popular, remained popular well into the 20th century, and (under other brand names) are still on the market.</p>
<p align="left"><strong>Paper Clips:</strong> In 1890, a paper clip made from folded spring steel was introduced in the US. A bent-wire paper clip was patented by Fay in 1867 but the Fay design was not used commercially until 1896. The first paper clip made from bent spring steel wire to be marketed was the Gem, introduced by Cushman & Denison in 1892, and ever since the most popular paper clip in the US. <font color="#000000">To visit our exhibit on the</font><font color="#000000" size="3"> <strong>History of the Paper Clip</strong></font><font color="#000000">, click <a href="paper_clips.htm">here</a>.</font> </p>
<h2 align="center"><font color="#000080">Paper Fastening Technology Timeline</font> </h2>
This table provides a chronological list of paper fastening technologies that were introduced after 1850. For most, there is a link that will take you to a separate page with a timeline for that particular technology.<br><br>
The word "stapler" was used in its modern sense by 1884. (<i>The American Bookseller</i>, June 2, 1884, p. 547, referring to the Novelty paper fastener as the "Novelty stapler.") However, prior to the 1920s, the devices that we now call "staplers" were generally referred to as "paper fasteners," "staple drivers," "staple binders," and "stapling machines."<br><br>
<table border="1" width="99%" height="2598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td height="75" width="81%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1850s ~ Eyelets:</font>
The photo
to the right shows <strong>Lipman's Improved Eyelet Machine</strong>, which
was advertised during 1878-85 for fastening papers. Hymen L. Lipman was awarded a patent for an eyelet machine in 1854. His 1854 machine had predecessors for fastening
papers. According to the 1854 patent: "In eyelet
machines as at present constructed, the eyelet cannot be riveted
from one side, and the consequence is that after it is partially
riveted from one side, it must be turned over, and completed.
To those who use these machines, this difficulty of turning over the
folios is obvious, as they are obliged to let go the sheets to be
fastened, and they frequently get out of place." Lipman
exhibited his eyelet machines at the 1876 International Exhibition
in Philadelphia. Eyelet machines that were used for fastening papers, as well as for other purposes, were sold in the US until at least 1999. To see more eyelet presses, click
<a href="stapler_gallery_eyelet.htm">here</a>.</td>
<td height="75" width="17%">
<p align="center"><a href="IMagesWWW/1880_Lipman_Improved_Eyelet_Machine_OM.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1880_Lipman_Improved_Eyelet_Machine_OM.jpg (16148 bytes)" width="99" height="133" src="IMagesWWW/1880_Lipman_Improved_Eyelet_Machine_OM_small.jpg" /></a><br />
<em><font size="2">Lipman's Improved Eyelet Machine, 1880</font></em></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="75" width="83%">
<p align="left"><font color="#000080"><font size="4">1860s ~ Brass Paper
Fasteners</font>:</font> Metal paper fasteners
similar to the brass ones in the photograph to the right were patented in the US in 1866
by George W. McGill. "Brass paper fasteners, 25 cts. per box"
are listed among the purchases for members of the 1869 Illinois
Constitutional Convention. In 1867, McGill patented a press
designed to cut slits in paper so that fasteners of this type could be inserted by
hand. The larger device in the photograph is a <strong>McGill
Fastener Press</strong> similar to the one patented in 1867. It was advertised as
early as 1880. The smaller
device is a <strong>McGill Fastener Punch</strong>
patented in 1874. McGill exhibited paper fasteners, and presumably paper fastener presses, at the 1876 International Exhibition in Philadelphia. To see more paper fasteners and paper fastener punches, click <a href="stapler_gallery_miscellaneous.htm">here</a>.</p></td>
<td height="75" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate01.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate01.jpg (23494 bytes)" width="104" height="107" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate01_small1.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2"> McGill Paper Fasteners, 1874 & 1880</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="75" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1870s ~ Individual
Preformed Staples: </font>The first desktop machine designed to fasten papers
by inserting and clinching metallic staples was patented in 1877
(US. Patent No. 195,603). A
number of the earliest machines held only one
preformed wire staple at a time and had to be reloaded each time they were used.
The photo to the right
shows one such machine, a <strong>McGill Single-Stroke Staple Press No. 1</strong>, which was
patented in 1879 and advertised during 1880-1909. To see several single-staple machines, click <a href="stapler_gallery_single_staple.htm">here</a>.<br />
<br />
OldStaplers.com, a web site that is no longer active, reported that in 1868 and 1874, before the
development of machines that both inserted and clinched staples, two
patents were issued for machines that inserted, but that did not
clinch, staples.</td>
<td height="75" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate03.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate03.jpg (31458 bytes)" width="104" height="84" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate03_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2">McGill Staple Press, 1879</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="139" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1870s ~ Magazines
of Preformed Staples:</font> The first stapling machine with a magazine that held a
supply of preformed wire staples that were fed automatically to the staple-driving
mechanism was patented in 1878. The <strong>Brown No. 5 Stapling Machine</strong> in
the photo to the right was patented in 1887. To see a number of additional early magazine stapling
machines, click <a href="stapler_gallery_magazine.htm">here</a>.</td>
<td height="139" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate05.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate05.jpg (42751 bytes)" width="104" height="87" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate05_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2"> Brown Stapling Machine, 1887</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="139" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1880s ~ Staples
Formed from Spools of Wire:</font> A desktop stapling machine that formed staples from wire
loaded on a spool was patented in 1880, and machines of this type were advertised as early
as 1882. The photo to the right shows a later machine of
this general type that used a spool of metal tape, the <strong>Eveready Paper Fastener</strong>,
which was patented in 1915 and advertised during 1916-42. To see several other wire spool stapling machines, click <a href="stapler_gallery_wire_spool.htm">here</a>.</td>
<td height="139" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate06.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate06.jpg (26314 bytes)" width="104" height="93" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate06_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2"> Eveready Paper Fastener, 1915</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="139" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1890s ~ Staples
Cut from Strips:</font> Moving along the paper fastener time line, stapling machines
that cut individual staples off a stamped strip of connected metal staples were introduced
commercially in 1895 by the Jones Mfg. Co., the predecessor of the E. H. Hotchkiss Co.<span> </span>The photo to the right shows the earliest of these machines, the
1895 <strong>Star Paper Fastener</strong>.
The best-selling strip staple machine, the Hotchkiss No. 1 paper
fastener, was still marketed in 1950. To see a number of other strip
staple machines, as well as the staple strips they used, click <a href="stapler_gallery_strip.htm">here</a>.</td>
<td height="139" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate07.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate07.jpg (34229 bytes)" width="104" height="101" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate07_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2"> Star Paper Fastener, 1895</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="169" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1890s ~ Staples
Formed from Straight Pins: </font> The <strong>Century Stapling
Machine</strong>, which was patented in 1897, and the similar <strong>Sun Stapling
Machine</strong>, which was invented by the same person, formed staples
from straight pins by cutting off the ends, bending what was left to form a staple, and
then inserting and clinching this staple.<br /><br>
<a href="IMagesWWW/1900_Sun_Stapling_Machine_Sun_Typewriter_Co_NY_NY.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1900_Sun_Stapling_Machine_Sun_Typewriter_Co_NY_NY.jpg (65321 bytes)" align="middle" width="99" height="118" src="IMagesWWW/1900_Sun_Stapling_Machine_Sun_Typewriter_Co_NY_NY_small.jpg" /></a><em><font size="2">
Sun Stapling Machine, Sun Typewriter Co., New York, NY, 1900 ad. 1900 Price $1.50.</font></em></td>
<td height="169" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><strong><a href="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate08.jpg"><img border="1" alt="fastener_plate08.jpg (15915 bytes)" width="99" height="169" src="Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate08_small.jpg" /><br />
</a></strong><font size="2"> Century Stapling Machine, 1897</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="139" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1900s ~ Fastening
Papers without Metallic Fasteners: </font>“Stapleless” paper fastening devices that did not
use a metallic fastener were introduced in 1909 by the Clipless Paper Fastener Co. and
in 1910 by Bump’s Perfected Paper Fastener Co. A Clipless Paper Fastener and the<strong>
Bump Paper Fastener</strong>
cut and fold small flaps in the papers
in a way that locks the papers together. Bump machines were still
marketed in 1950. Curiously, the model of the Bump Stand
Machine that was introduced in 1916 was sold until 1950 with the
words "Patent Pending."<br />
<br />
The <strong>Paper Welder,</strong> which was introduced
in 1941, crimps papers together. To see more stapleless paper
fasteners, click <a href="stapler_gallery_stapleless.htm">here</a>.</td>
<td height="168" width="17%">
<p align="center"><a href="IMagesWWW/1910_Bump_New_Model_OMc.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1910 Bump New Model OMc.jpg (15362 bytes)" width="99" height="118" src="IMagesWWW/1910_Bump_New_Model_OMc_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><font size="2"><em> Bump New Model Paper Fastener, 1910<br />
<br /></em></font><a href="IMagesWWW/Paper_Welders_two_models.jpg"><img border="1" alt="Paper_Welders_two_models.jpg (33332 bytes)" width="99" height="67" src="IMagesWWW/Paper_Welders_two_models_small1.jpg" /></a><a href="IMagesWWW/Paper_Welder_OM.JPG"><br />
</a><em><font size="2"> Paper Welder, 1941<br />
& 1956</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="125" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1910s ~ Fastening
Papers with a Machine that Inserts Bent Wire Paper Clips:</font> In 1914,
a device was introduced that pushed Niagara
bent-wire paper clips onto sets of papers. See photo to right. In 2003, ClipMagik
introduced an Electric Paper Clip Machine, which pushes Gem paper
clips onto sets of papers.<br /><br>
To
visit our exhibit on the </font><font color="#000080" size="4">History
of the Paper Clip</font><font color="#000000">, click <a href="paper_clips.htm">here</a>.</font></td>
<td height="125" width="17%">
<p align="center"><em><font size="2"><a href="1914_Paper_Clip_Inserter.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1914_Paper_Clip_Inserter.jpg (22325 bytes)" width="99" height="128" src="1914_Paper_Clip_Inserter_small.jpg" />
</a>1914</font></em><p align="center"><img alt="" border="1" align="center" width="75" height="71.55" src="IMagesWWW/Niagara_Clip_1_x.jpg" />
<em><font size="2"> Niagara Clip, 1897 </font></em><font color="#000000"></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="125" width="83%"><font color="#000080" size="4">1920s ~ Fastening
Papers with a Machine that Inserts Straight Pins:</font> In 1926,
the Pinzit Co. of New York, NY, introduced the <strong>Pinzit</strong> machine, which inserted a special straight
pin through a set of papers. The device first bent the papers so
that the pin moving in a straight line would pass through the papers from the top and then
pass through the papers from the bottom.</td>
<td height="125" width="17%">
<p align="center"><a href="IMagesWWW/1926_Pinzit.jpg"><img border="1" alt="1926_Pinzit.jpg (35248 bytes)" width="99" height="107" src="IMagesWWW/1926_Pinzit_small.jpg" /><br />
</a><em><font size="2">Pinzit, 1926<br />
<a href="IMagesWWW/Pinzit_pins.jpg"><img border="1" alt="Pinzit_pins.jpg (43844 bytes)" width="99" height="101" src="IMagesWWW/Pinzit_pins_small.jpg" /><br />
</a>Pinzit Pins</font></em></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="125" width="83%">
<p align="left"><font color="#000080" size="4">Hand-Held
Paper Fasteners:</font> We have not yet included hand-held devices in most of
the Early Office Museum's paper fastener exhibits. Most paper fastening technologies have
been available in both hand-held and desktop models. The 1888 <strong>White's Staple Inserter</strong> pictured to the right
used
individual preformed staples. It was marketed for "Fastening
legal documents, binding pamphlets, briefs, magazines, etc." The 1915 <strong>Cliplox Paper Fastener</strong>
pictured below was used "for fastening papers and locking them
together without the use of pins, clips, or
staples." </p>
<p align="center"><a href="IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox.JPG"><img border="1" alt="1915_Cliplox.JPG (22573 bytes)" width="99" height="71" src="IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox_small.JPG" /></a> <font size="1"><a href="IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox_Automatic_Pencil_Sharpener_Co_Chicago_box.JPG"><img border="1" alt="1915_Cliplox_Automatic_Pencil_Sharpener_Co_Chicago_box.JPG (40897 bytes)" width="100" height="58" src="IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox_Automatic_Pencil_Sharpener_Co_Chicago_box_small.JPG" /></a><br>
<em><font size="2">Cliplox Paper Fastener, 1915</font></em></p></td>
<td height="150" width="17%">
<p align="center"><a href="IMagesWWW/1888_Whites_Staple_Inserter__Box_Cuyler_Brooks_OM.JPG"><img border="1" alt="1888_Whites_Staple_Inserter__Box_Cuyler_Brooks_OM.JPG (32532 bytes)" width="100" height="94" src="IMagesWWW/1888_Whites_Staple_Inserter__Box_Cuyler_Brooks_OM_small.JPG" /></a>.<br />
<em><font size="2">White's Staple Inserter, <br />
patented 1888</font></em><br /><br>
<font size="1">Courtesy of<br>Cuyler Brooks</font></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td height="209" width="100%">
<p align="center"><font color="#000080" size="4">When Did the
Magazine Stapler Become Dominant?</font></p>
<p style="text-align: justify">Nearly all the
technologies described above co-existed for many years and were still marketed
at least as late as 1940.
In the end, staplers with magazines of preformed wire staples drove nearly all other paper fastening devices from the
desktop. We cannot demonstrate causation, but it is possible to suggest several reasons that magazine staplers won out after many
years of co-existence.<br><br>
* 1927: The conventional magazine stapler became more popular with the introduction of "cohered" or "frozen wire" strips of staples that were glued together. Over 200 staples could be loaded quickly. According to a 1928 ad in Horder's catalog, strips of Neva-Clog staples were "soft soldered" together.<br><br>
* 1939: Swingline introduced "open channel loading" with its Speed Staplers No. 3 and No. 4, which gave these and other Swingline machine a competitive edge. These staplers could be loaded quickly, and any jams could be fixed easily.<br><br>
* 1940: Staplers that used "standard staples" were introduced. For decades, paper fastening machines, including magazine staplers, made by different companies (and often even the same company) required metallic paper fasteners of different sizes. In 1940 companies began to advertise that their magazine staplers used standard staples, and office supply companies began to advertise standard wire staples that fit at least Ace, Arrow, Bates, Bostitch, Compo, Dennison, Hotchkiss, Star, and Swingline magazine staplers.<br><br>
* Magazine staplers were introduced that were simpler, lighter, smaller, and cheaper.</p>
</td>
<td height="150" width="17%">
<p align="center">.</p></td></tr>
</table>
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Staplers, Paper Fasteners, Paper Clips
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| [ [Back](pencil_sharpeners.htm) ] [ [Home](./) ] [ [Up](exhibits.htm) ] [ [Next](check_protectors.htm) ]
[ [Eyelet Presses](stapler_gallery_eyelet.htm) ] [ [Paper Fasteners & Paper Fastener Punches](stapler_gallery_miscellaneous.htm) ] [ [Single Staple Machines](stapler_gallery_single_staple.htm) ] [ [Magazine Stapling Machines](stapler_gallery_magazine.htm) ] [ [Wire Spool Stapling Machines](stapler_gallery_wire_spool.htm) ] [ [Strip Staple Machines](stapler_gallery_strip.htm) ] [ [Stapleless Paper Fasteners](stapler_gallery_stapleless.htm) ] [ [Paper Clips](paper_clips.htm) ]
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| Early Office Museum
Antique
Staplers & Other Paper Fasteners
Expansion in the volume of papers generated and stored in offices during the second half of the
nineteenth century created a demand for efficient ways to fasten papers together. As part
of our research at the Museum, we have investigated the development of early
staplers and other mechanical devices
that were sold to meet this demand between the 1850s and early 1940s. The
old paper fastening machines
discussed here were used not only to insert and clinch staples but also to insert other
types of paper fasteners, such as eyelets, and to attach papers together without the use
of fasteners by cutting and folding or crimping the papers themselves.
**Before Metallic Paper Fasteners:** Metallic paper fasteners and machines to insert them began to arrive on the market in the late 1850s and were widely advertised from 1866 onward. Before these specialized paper fastening devices were available, the types of documents that today are stapled together were fastened in a number of ways that did not make use of metallic fasteners or mechanical devices. Papers were held together by any one of the following:
1. Stitches made with a needle and thread
2. Paper or wax seals or wafers (which were marketed for use in sealing envelopes)
3. Strings, cloth tapes, or ribbons that were inserted through parallel incisions made with a penknife, then tied, and sometimes secured with paper or wax seals to prevent tampering with the document
4. Lines or dots of paste or glue
5. Straight pins
6. Strings or ribbons tied around groups of papers
7. Rubber bands placed around groups of papers
While metallic paper fasteners and machines to insert them caught on quickly, the seven methods of fastening papers that are listed immediately above were still used for decades. For example, in the early 1900s paper clips were sometimes advertised as a superior alternative to pins for fastening papers. Next we provide information about the 19th century use of a few of the methods of fastening papers listed immediately above.
**Needle and Thread:** A document published in 1858 states: "The Candidates should leave their answers at their seats (with the Examination papers attached to them), after having carefully filed them all together in order through the upper left hand corner. A supply of silk twist and some large needles should be provided for this purpose." (*Journal of the Society of Arts*, v. 6, London, England, 1858, p. 577)
**Sealing Wax:** Sealing wax was used to authenticate and seal documents long before the 19th century. In the 19th century, F. M. Butler of New York, NY, exhibited sealing wax at
the Exhibition of the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association,
Boston, in 1837. Waterlow & Sons, London,
exhibited sealing wax in 1855, and Thaddeus Davids & Co.,
New York, NY, did so in 1876.
**Paste and Glue:** It seems likely that lines and dots of paste and glue were used to fasten papers well before the 19th century, but our research goes back only to the second half of the 19th century. The following question and answer appear in 1860 testimony: Question: "Did the paper handed to you in the saloon in fact consist of two papers attached together by mucilage?" Answer: "It did." (Miscellaneous Documents of the US House of Representatives, 36th Congress, 1st Session, Mis. Doc. No. 12, 1860, p. 52) Mucilage, a water-soluble glue made from plants,
was advertised along with other office supplies by Richard B. Dovell's Son & Co. and by Samuel S.
Stafford, both New York, NY, in 1867, and by Carter Bros. & Co.,
Boston, MA, and Chase & Bush, Philadelphia, PA, in 1868. A number of sellers exhibited mucilage along
with other office supplies at the 1876 International Exhibition. At least as late as 1912, well after numerous types of metallic paper fasteners had been placed on the market and widely adopted, mucilage was promoted as an alternative to paper clips for fastening papers. See the image on the right immediately below.
[1881_Morgans_Mucilage.jpg (79427 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1881_Morgans_Mucilage.jpg) Morgan's Mucilage, 1881
[1911_Mucilage_bottles.jpg (84971 bytes)](1911_Mucilage_bottles.jpg) Carter's Mucilage, 1911
[1912 Mucilage instead of paper clips from Business.jpg (84971 bytes)](1912 Mucilage instead of paper clips from Business.jpg) Mucilage Compared to Paper Clips, *Business*, 1912
**Straight Pins:** Mass production of straight pins began in the first half of the 19th century, and it seems likely that straight pins were used to fasten papers once they were mass produced if not before. The photo below shows Pyramid Pins of the type sold for fastening papers in offices
as well as for many uses in homes by the New England Pin Co., Winsted, CT. In 1878, Charles J. Cohen,
Philadelphia, PA, advertised Pyramid Pins in a similar circular holder
patented in 1871. An an ad for Pyramid Pins in a circular holder with a label similar to that in the photo here appeared in 1910.
[Pryamid_Toilet_Pins_New_England_Pin_Co._Winsted_CT_OM.JPG (55926 bytes)](Pryamid_Toilet_Pins_New_England_Pin_Co._Winsted_CT_OM.JPG)Pyramid Pins
**Red Tape:** The earliest reference we have found to use of red tape to tie papers is: "a bundle of papers, ty'd with red tape." (*The Proceedings at the Sessions of the Peace, and Oyer and Terminer, for the City of London*, 1730, p. 245) However, the use of red tape to tie a book containing notes and papers in 1708 suggests that red tape may have been used to tie papers by the very early 18th century. In any event, 19th century publications--particularly British ones--make many references to use of red tape for tying papers. The term "red tape" was used in its current figurative sense by 1833: "He hates the projects for centralising every thing in London, and putting the government of red tape and green ferrit in place of the time-honoured institutions of King Alfred." (*Fraser's Magazine for Town and Country*, v. 8, Oct. 1833, p. 488. Green ferrit or ferret is string or tape made from silk filaments and dyed green. In Britain during the 19th century, particularly during the early 1800s, it was sometimes used in the same manner as red tape.) The image below on the left shows an 1880 advertisement for red tape and green silk ferret along with other types of office supplies.
[1880 Shaw's Sundries including red tape and green ferret small.jpg (55926 bytes)](1880 Shaw's Sundries including red tape and green ferret.jpg)
1880 Advertisement for Red Tape and Green Silk Ferret
**Rubber Bands:** Charles Slack states that the British firm Perry & Co. introduced the
rubber band in 1844, and that a licensee of Goodyear made rubber bands
around the same time in the US. (*Noble Obsession: Charles Goodyear,
Thomas Handcock, and the Race to Unlock the Greatest Industrial Secret of
the Nineteenth Century*, 2002, pp. 144, 155) We found
Perry's India rubber bands being offered for sale, along with stationery supplies, including wax and wafers for sealing envelopes, by a company in Calcutta, India, in 1848. (*D'Rozario & Co.'s Library. Books, Pictures, Stationery & Miscellaneous Articles*, Calcutta, 1848) We also found references to India rubber bands among office supplies in publications throughout the following decades. Waterlow & Sons, London, advertised pins, elastic bands, and red tape
in 1855. Geo. N. Davis & Brother, Boston, MA, advertised rubber
stationers' bands in 1856. (*Illustrated and Descriptive Catalogue
and Trade-Price List of India Rubber and Gutta Percha Goods*)
**Brass Paper Fasteners:** H. W. Hall received an English patent for a brass paper fastener with two legs that the user inserted through a slit in papers and then bent outward in opposite directions. Unaware of the Hale patent, the US patent office awarded a patent for a brass paper fastener with the same fundamental characteristics to George W. McGill in 1866. The McGill paper fasteners were immediately popular, remained popular well into the 20th century, and (under other brand names) are still on the market.
**Paper Clips:** In 1890, a paper clip made from folded spring steel was introduced in the US. A bent-wire paper clip was patented by Fay in 1867 but the Fay design was not used commercially until 1896. The first paper clip made from bent spring steel wire to be marketed was the Gem, introduced by Cushman & Denison in 1892, and ever since the most popular paper clip in the US. To visit our exhibit on the **History of the Paper Clip**, click [here](paper_clips.htm).
Paper Fastening Technology Timeline
This table provides a chronological list of paper fastening technologies that were introduced after 1850. For most, there is a link that will take you to a separate page with a timeline for that particular technology.
The word "stapler" was used in its modern sense by 1884. (*The American Bookseller*, June 2, 1884, p. 547, referring to the Novelty paper fastener as the "Novelty stapler.") However, prior to the 1920s, the devices that we now call "staplers" were generally referred to as "paper fasteners," "staple drivers," "staple binders," and "stapling machines."
| | |
| --- | --- |
| 1850s ~ Eyelets:
The photo
to the right shows **Lipman's Improved Eyelet Machine**, which
was advertised during 1878-85 for fastening papers. Hymen L. Lipman was awarded a patent for an eyelet machine in 1854. His 1854 machine had predecessors for fastening
papers. According to the 1854 patent: "In eyelet
machines as at present constructed, the eyelet cannot be riveted
from one side, and the consequence is that after it is partially
riveted from one side, it must be turned over, and completed.
To those who use these machines, this difficulty of turning over the
folios is obvious, as they are obliged to let go the sheets to be
fastened, and they frequently get out of place." Lipman
exhibited his eyelet machines at the 1876 International Exhibition
in Philadelphia. Eyelet machines that were used for fastening papers, as well as for other purposes, were sold in the US until at least 1999. To see more eyelet presses, click
[here](stapler_gallery_eyelet.htm). | [1880_Lipman_Improved_Eyelet_Machine_OM.jpg (16148 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1880_Lipman_Improved_Eyelet_Machine_OM.jpg) |
| 1860s ~ Brass Paper
Fasteners: Metal paper fasteners
similar to the brass ones in the photograph to the right were patented in the US in 1866
by George W. McGill. "Brass paper fasteners, 25 cts. per box"
are listed among the purchases for members of the 1869 Illinois
Constitutional Convention. In 1867, McGill patented a press
designed to cut slits in paper so that fasteners of this type could be inserted by
hand. The larger device in the photograph is a **McGill
Fastener Press** similar to the one patented in 1867. It was advertised as
early as 1880. The smaller
device is a **McGill Fastener Punch**
patented in 1874. McGill exhibited paper fasteners, and presumably paper fastener presses, at the 1876 International Exhibition in Philadelphia. To see more paper fasteners and paper fastener punches, click [here](stapler_gallery_miscellaneous.htm). | *[fastener_plate01.jpg (23494 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate01.jpg) McGill Paper Fasteners, 1874 & 1880* |
| 1870s ~ Individual
Preformed Staples: The first desktop machine designed to fasten papers
by inserting and clinching metallic staples was patented in 1877
(US. Patent No. 195,603). A
number of the earliest machines held only one
preformed wire staple at a time and had to be reloaded each time they were used.
The photo to the right
shows one such machine, a **McGill Single-Stroke Staple Press No. 1**, which was
patented in 1879 and advertised during 1880-1909. To see several single-staple machines, click [here](stapler_gallery_single_staple.htm). | *[fastener_plate03.jpg (31458 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate03.jpg)McGill Staple Press, 1879* |
| 1870s ~ Magazines
of Preformed Staples: The first stapling machine with a magazine that held a
supply of preformed wire staples that were fed automatically to the staple-driving
mechanism was patented in 1878. The **Brown No. 5 Stapling Machine** in
the photo to the right was patented in 1887. To see a number of additional early magazine stapling
machines, click [here](stapler_gallery_magazine.htm). | *[fastener_plate05.jpg (42751 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate05.jpg) Brown Stapling Machine, 1887* |
| 1880s ~ Staples
Formed from Spools of Wire: A desktop stapling machine that formed staples from wire
loaded on a spool was patented in 1880, and machines of this type were advertised as early
as 1882. The photo to the right shows a later machine of
this general type that used a spool of metal tape, the **Eveready Paper Fastener**,
which was patented in 1915 and advertised during 1916-42. To see several other wire spool stapling machines, click [here](stapler_gallery_wire_spool.htm). | *[fastener_plate06.jpg (26314 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate06.jpg) Eveready Paper Fastener, 1915* |
| 1890s ~ Staples
Cut from Strips: Moving along the paper fastener time line, stapling machines
that cut individual staples off a stamped strip of connected metal staples were introduced
commercially in 1895 by the Jones Mfg. Co., the predecessor of the E. H. Hotchkiss Co. The photo to the right shows the earliest of these machines, the
1895 **Star Paper Fastener**.
The best-selling strip staple machine, the Hotchkiss No. 1 paper
fastener, was still marketed in 1950. To see a number of other strip
staple machines, as well as the staple strips they used, click [here](stapler_gallery_strip.htm). | *[fastener_plate07.jpg (34229 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate07.jpg) Star Paper Fastener, 1895* |
| 1890s ~ Staples
Formed from Straight Pins: The **Century Stapling
Machine**, which was patented in 1897, and the similar **Sun Stapling
Machine**, which was invented by the same person, formed staples
from straight pins by cutting off the ends, bending what was left to form a staple, and
then inserting and clinching this staple. | ***[fastener_plate08.jpg (15915 bytes)](Stapler%20Page/fastener_plate08.jpg)** Century Stapling Machine, 1897* |
| 1900s ~ Fastening
Papers without Metallic Fasteners: “Stapleless” paper fastening devices that did not
use a metallic fastener were introduced in 1909 by the Clipless Paper Fastener Co. and
in 1910 by Bump’s Perfected Paper Fastener Co. A Clipless Paper Fastener and the**Bump Paper Fastener**
cut and fold small flaps in the papers
in a way that locks the papers together. Bump machines were still
marketed in 1950. Curiously, the model of the Bump Stand
Machine that was introduced in 1916 was sold until 1950 with the
words "Patent Pending." | [1910 Bump New Model OMc.jpg (15362 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1910_Bump_New_Model_OMc.jpg) *Bump New Model Paper Fastener, 1910*[Paper_Welders_two_models.jpg (33332 bytes)](IMagesWWW/Paper_Welders_two_models.jpg) *Paper Welder, 1941
& 1956* |
| 1910s ~ Fastening
Papers with a Machine that Inserts Bent Wire Paper Clips: In 1914,
a device was introduced that pushed Niagara
bent-wire paper clips onto sets of papers. See photo to right. In 2003, ClipMagik
introduced an Electric Paper Clip Machine, which pushes Gem paper
clips onto sets of papers.
To
visit our exhibit on the History
of the Paper Clip, click [here](paper_clips.htm). | *[1914_Paper_Clip_Inserter.jpg (22325 bytes)](1914_Paper_Clip_Inserter.jpg)1914*
*Niagara Clip, 1897* |
| 1920s ~ Fastening
Papers with a Machine that Inserts Straight Pins: In 1926,
the Pinzit Co. of New York, NY, introduced the **Pinzit** machine, which inserted a special straight
pin through a set of papers. The device first bent the papers so
that the pin moving in a straight line would pass through the papers from the top and then
pass through the papers from the bottom. | [1926_Pinzit.jpg (35248 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1926_Pinzit.jpg)*Pinzit, 1926
[Pinzit_pins.jpg (43844 bytes)](IMagesWWW/Pinzit_pins.jpg)Pinzit Pins* |
| Hand-Held
Paper Fasteners: We have not yet included hand-held devices in most of
the Early Office Museum's paper fastener exhibits. Most paper fastening technologies have
been available in both hand-held and desktop models. The 1888 **White's Staple Inserter** pictured to the right
used
individual preformed staples. It was marketed for "Fastening
legal documents, binding pamphlets, briefs, magazines, etc." The 1915 **Cliplox Paper Fastener**
pictured below was used "for fastening papers and locking them
together without the use of pins, clips, or
staples."
[1915_Cliplox.JPG (22573 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox.JPG) [1915_Cliplox_Automatic_Pencil_Sharpener_Co_Chicago_box.JPG (40897 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1915_Cliplox_Automatic_Pencil_Sharpener_Co_Chicago_box.JPG)
*Cliplox Paper Fastener, 1915* | [1888_Whites_Staple_Inserter__Box_Cuyler_Brooks_OM.JPG (32532 bytes)](IMagesWWW/1888_Whites_Staple_Inserter__Box_Cuyler_Brooks_OM.JPG). |
| When Did the
Magazine Stapler Become Dominant?
Nearly all the
technologies described above co-existed for many years and were still marketed
at least as late as 1940.
In the end, staplers with magazines of preformed wire staples drove nearly all other paper fastening devices from the
desktop. We cannot demonstrate causation, but it is possible to suggest several reasons that magazine staplers won out after many
years of co-existence.
\* 1927: The conventional magazine stapler became more popular with the introduction of "cohered" or "frozen wire" strips of staples that were glued together. Over 200 staples could be loaded quickly. According to a 1928 ad in Horder's catalog, strips of Neva-Clog staples were "soft soldered" together.
\* 1939: Swingline introduced "open channel loading" with its Speed Staplers No. 3 and No. 4, which gave these and other Swingline machine a competitive edge. These staplers could be loaded quickly, and any jams could be fixed easily.
\* 1940: Staplers that used "standard staples" were introduced. For decades, paper fastening machines, including magazine staplers, made by different companies (and often even the same company) required metallic paper fasteners of different sizes. In 1940 companies began to advertise that their magazine staplers used standard staples, and office supply companies began to advertise standard wire staples that fit at least Ace, Arrow, Bates, Bostitch, Compo, Dennison, Hotchkiss, Star, and Swingline magazine staplers.
\* Magazine staplers were introduced that were simpler, lighter, smaller, and cheaper. | . |
|
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| http://www.officemuseum.com/staplers.htm |
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<h1>Welcome to my Web Pages.</h1>
<p align="center">I hope that you will enjoy browsing these pages and that they <br>may inspire you to create
pieces of lace of your own.</p>
<br>
<p align="center"><img src="images/line.jpg" border="0"></p>
<table border="0" width="95%">
<tr>
<td width="25%"><a href="tutorial/index.htm" target="_blank"><img src="images/tutorials.jpg" border="0" alt="Needlelace Tutorial"></a> </td>
<td align="center">This is my first tutorial, with diagrams, in the art of needle-lace making.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="25%"><a href="history.html" target="_blank"><img src="images/history.jpg" border="0" alt="History of Lace"></a> </td>
<td align="center">Some history of lace and lacemaking.</td>
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<tr>
<td width="25%"><a href="album/index.html" target="_blank"><img src="album/index.jpg" border="0" alt=" My Lace Album"></a> </td>
<td align="center">Photographs of my favourite lace pieces.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="25%"><a href="coppermine/index.php" target="_blank"><img src="images/coppermine.jpg" border="0" alt="My Photo Album"></a> </td>
<td align="center">My Photographs of Australia and other things.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="commenthere/comments.php"><img src="images/guestbook.jpg" border="0" alt="Comment Here"></a></td>
<td align="center">Please make any comments here</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="hazelslater@optusnet.com.au"><img src="images/email.jpg" border="0" alt="E-mail me"></a></td>
<td align="center">You can e-mail me here.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="links.html" target="_blank"><img src="images/links.jpg" border="0" alt="Lace and other links"></a></td>
<td align="center">Lace Sites, Friend's sites, and Sites I've found useful.</td>
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<img src="images/line.jpg" border="0">
<p> The picture below is of the Cronulla School of Arts, in Sydney, Australia, where the Southern
Suburbs Lacemakers meet twice a month. If you are able and interested, you would be more than welcome.
For more information, e-mail me via the link above.</p>
<p align="center"><img src="images/Cronulla.jpg" border="0"></p>
<p align="center"><img src="images/line.jpg" border="0"></p>
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Lacemaker's Threads
# Welcome to my Web Pages.
I hope that you will enjoy browsing these pages and that they
may inspire you to create
pieces of lace of your own.
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [Needlelace Tutorial](tutorial/index.htm) | This is my first tutorial, with diagrams, in the art of needle-lace making. |
| [History of Lace](history.html) | Some history of lace and lacemaking. |
| [My Lace Album](album/index.html) | Photographs of my favourite lace pieces. |
| [My Photo Album](coppermine/index.php) | My Photographs of Australia and other things. |
| [Comment Here](commenthere/comments.php) | Please make any comments here |
| [E-mail me](hazelslater@optusnet.com.au) | You can e-mail me here. |
| [Lace and other links](links.html) | Lace Sites, Friend's sites, and Sites I've found useful. |
The picture below is of the Cronulla School of Arts, in Sydney, Australia, where the Southern
Suburbs Lacemakers meet twice a month. If you are able and interested, you would be more than welcome.
For more information, e-mail me via the link above.
| http://lacemakerslace.oddquine.co.uk/ |
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I've made several modules for the Vassal engine, some of which are listed here.<br>
I'm always up for a game so if you see something you like, let me know.<br>
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Doctor Nostromo's Home Page
**Welcome to**
**Est. 1995... and still updated daily
Crawl into the mind of a hobbyist for awhile.
---
**This is a hobby. I make no income from this ...nor do I want to. I provide this free entertainment because I'm retired with a lot of time on my hands, and it's fun. I've had people mention that my site is very "vintage" and "old school". Well, I like simple. I get so tired of the in-your-face advertising, automatic drop-down menus, auto-play videos and page layouts that can be so confusing they require a road map ...not to mention all the information they're collecting on a visit and the unnecessary cookies they're shoving into your computer. This site is completely safe - no ads, no cookies, no collection of visitor information, no registration and easy to navigate. It's simply a fun place to browse around.
My thanks goes out to my fans who have sent me letters of support for the site (as well as talk movies, music and games) and I'll continue to keep things updated on a daily basis for as long as I can. Remember, keep smiling, playing, laughing, loving and having fun. Because, if you take life too seriously, you're missing the point. Enjoy!
If you have concerns with your browser indicating this site as unsecured,
[reading this statement](SSL.html)
should put your mind at ease.**
---
**Click the banner to select the location of your choice**
---
**[](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/index.html)
Over 1630 quick and concise movie reviews, a complete, accurate and extensive
[Avengers Timeline Viewing Order](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/series.html)
and we also have a Random Movie Recommendation button!
Updated daily!!
---
**A site for all 13 seasons of...**
[](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/mst3kindex.html)
...featuring a complete list of all the episodes plus the most comprehensive, up-to-date, direct links
to mostly free quality streams that you will find anywhere ...including MST3K's new site Gizmoplex!
Also includes a random episode selector!!**
---
**With more than 50 years of searching and accumulating, find out what's in...**
[](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/music.html)
From old to new, well known to the obscure, from hits to tunes you've never heard before,
from acoustic to metal to electronic to jazz to blues to thrash, you'll be hard pressed to find a
more eclectic selection of tunes with 3 to 5 hour playlists curated for your pleasure.
[Random Tune of the Day](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuF-58GxExo&list=PLy5vBdtBINV-wtoWobKiaq8SRoROP9_c9)
---
**WireClub Chat Rooms**
[](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/chatroom.html)
I'm a member of a few chat rooms that are actually very friendly, safe and quite fun.
It that appeals to you, click our panda bears for more information.
---
**My Library of Vassal Games**
[](http://www.drnostromo.com/movies/TBK.html)
I've made several modules for the Vassal engine, some of which are listed here.
I'm always up for a game so if you see something you like, let me know.
Like D&D style adventure games? I'm currently looking for players to play a grand
campaign of To Be King. Scroll to the bottom of the Vassal games page for details.
---
**The Official Hacx Site**
**and other Doom Projects**
[](http://drnostromo.com/hacx/)
**Files, the history and the latest news on Hacx, Banjo Software's modification of DOOM, can be found here.
You can also access the old Doom projects of STRAIN and the Nostromo's Run Project from here.**
---
**The Official Site for the**
**[](coduo/index.html)
A mod for Call of Duty: United Offensive. Free download.**
---
[](mailto:DrN_Misc@DrNostromo.com?subject=From_the_home_page)
**Drop me a note. Your E-mail address is important. I promise to keep it private and it will not be abused.**
**Thanx for dropping by!****
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<title>Columbine shooter Eric Harris' webpages</title>
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<span class="sm"><a href="end/index.html" title="Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold" class="sm">Columbine shooters</a> | <a href="eric.html" title="Eric Harris" class="sm">Eric Harris</a> | Eric's webpages</span><br/>
<div align="center">
<img src="eric/ttlweb.gif" title="Eric Harris' Webpages" alt="Eric Harris' Webpages" /><br/>
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<br/><br/>
</div>
<a href="eric.html">Eric Harris</a> was active online: He participated in a number of pastimes via the Internet including <i>Doom</i> deathmatches and playing on a </i>Quake</i> team. He made websites where he posted about the games he played. He had more than one screenname he used to chat on AOL and WBS with. He distributed the levels (wads) he made for the first-person shooter games he liked to play. He posted the lyrics of his favorite songs, and he wrote rage-filled rants about life -- web-postings that became the subject of much public scrutiny after April 20, 1999.<br/><br/>
In the months that followed the shooting at Columbine High, the contents of his webpages were sealed by the FBI. It was difficult to locate this information afterward as AOL and WBS removed the content once the FBI was done with it. I managed to save several files from his accounts before the directories were deleted, but the HTML (webpage) files were already gone by the time I was able to access them. I did find the pages from a couple of his WBS pages, which contained bad "Jo Mamma" jokes and song lyrics. The Columbine Report had scans of the text versions of several of his AOL webpages, but it's only the text. What the actual websites looked like is gone for good.<br/><br/>
Back in 1999 I displayed the graphics I'd saved along with relevant links that I'd tracked down in a format I thought would give the reader a better sense of what they might have looked like when used on a webpage. Unfortunately, some mistook my pages to be copies of Eric's actual webpages. My pages were copied and posted on other websites that claimed they were mirrors of his actual sites. I have since changed the pages so it is more obvious that they are not mirrors. The AOL directories mirrored here are actual copies. They appear as they did when I accessed them shortly after the shooting, when the FBI got done with them. These directories were taken down a week after the URLs were made public.<br/><br/>
<b>To be clear: Eric's actual webpages were removed from the Internet by the FBI before the URL addresses were released to the public. <i>There are NO COPIES of Eric Harris' actual websites out there.</i> Any site claiming to have them is mistaken. If you see content elsewhere that resembles these pages, you can be sure they're just copies of my original mock-up display pages and not Eric's website. </b><br/><br/>
<div class="paddedlist4">
<div class="row">
<div class="colpic50">
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="eric/urls.html">Detailed list of URLs of Eric Harris' websites</a></div>
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <a href="eric/writing/blotter.jpg">Eric writes threatening rants about Brooks Brown</a><br>
The police blotter regarding investigation of the initial incident after Brooks' parents saw and reported the website.<br />
<span class="small">(see <a href="eric/writing/journal/jindex.html" class="sm">Eric's journals</a> for the actual content)</span></div>
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="trenchcoat.html">RebtheJuvey WBS Page</a> (mirror)<br>
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/r/e/b/rebthejuvey.html</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <a href="eric/rebthejuvey.html">WBS chat profile for RebTheJuvey</a> (mirror)</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="eric/power.html">Rebldomkr WBS Page</a> (mirror)<br />
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/r/e/b/rebldomkr.html</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <a href="eric/doom.html">Reb's Doom II site</a><br /> Not an actual mirror - just graphics and links to wad files.</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="eric/screenshots.html">Screenshots of Reb's Doom II levels</a></div>
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <b>AOL Profiles</b><br />
- <a href="profiles.html">Text version</a><br />
- <a href="profiles2.html">Screenshots</a></div>
</div><div class="colpic50">
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <b>Mirrors of AOL directories</b><br />
* <a href="eric/ftpdirect.html" target="_new">Rebdoomer</a> (mirror)<br />
- <a href="eric/rebindex.html">index.htm</a><br />
- <a href="eric/mama.html">mama.htm</a> (mirror)<br />
"Jo Mamma" joke page put together by REB [Eric Harris],<br>
VoDkA [Dylan Klebold], and KiBBz [Zach Heckler]<br />
- <a href="eric/writing/mission.jpg" target="_new">mission page 1</a>, 2, <a href="eric/writing/mission3.jpg" target="_new">3</a>, <a href="eric/writing/mission4.html">4</a><br />
REB explains the 'missions' he and VoDkA are doing,<br/>
mainly testing pipe bombs. Page 2 is missing.<br/>
- <a href="wisdom2.html">wisdom2.htm</a></li><br />
* <a href="eric/rebdominedir.html" target="_new">Rebdomine</a> (mirror)<br />
- <a href="eric/rebdomindex.html">index.htm</a><br />
- <a href="eric/writing/pissed.html">pissed.htm</a></div><br/>
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="eric/links.html">Links paired with graphics from Eric's website</a><br />Not a mirror of the actual site - just the graphics.</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap2">• <a href="eric/graphics.html">Eric's AOL miscellaneous graphics</a><br />Not a mirror of his page, just the graphics.</div>
<div class="bgcolwrap">• <a href="eric/fauxreb.html">The last look of Harris' website?</a><br /> No. A hoax site set up after 4-20, claiming to be Eric's work that was later debunked by the FBI. Included here to keep the rumor debunked because for several months folks believed it was real.</div>
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Columbine shooter Eric Harris' webpages
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[Columbine shooters](end/index.html "Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold") | [Eric Harris](eric.html "Eric Harris") | Eric's webpages
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
[Eric Harris](eric.html) was active online: He participated in a number of pastimes via the Internet including *Doom* deathmatches and playing on a Quake team. He made websites where he posted about the games he played. He had more than one screenname he used to chat on AOL and WBS with. He distributed the levels (wads) he made for the first-person shooter games he liked to play. He posted the lyrics of his favorite songs, and he wrote rage-filled rants about life -- web-postings that became the subject of much public scrutiny after April 20, 1999.
In the months that followed the shooting at Columbine High, the contents of his webpages were sealed by the FBI. It was difficult to locate this information afterward as AOL and WBS removed the content once the FBI was done with it. I managed to save several files from his accounts before the directories were deleted, but the HTML (webpage) files were already gone by the time I was able to access them. I did find the pages from a couple of his WBS pages, which contained bad "Jo Mamma" jokes and song lyrics. The Columbine Report had scans of the text versions of several of his AOL webpages, but it's only the text. What the actual websites looked like is gone for good.
Back in 1999 I displayed the graphics I'd saved along with relevant links that I'd tracked down in a format I thought would give the reader a better sense of what they might have looked like when used on a webpage. Unfortunately, some mistook my pages to be copies of Eric's actual webpages. My pages were copied and posted on other websites that claimed they were mirrors of his actual sites. I have since changed the pages so it is more obvious that they are not mirrors. The AOL directories mirrored here are actual copies. They appear as they did when I accessed them shortly after the shooting, when the FBI got done with them. These directories were taken down a week after the URLs were made public.
**To be clear: Eric's actual webpages were removed from the Internet by the FBI before the URL addresses were released to the public. *There are NO COPIES of Eric Harris' actual websites out there.* Any site claiming to have them is mistaken. If you see content elsewhere that resembles these pages, you can be sure they're just copies of my original mock-up display pages and not Eric's website.**
• [Detailed list of URLs of Eric Harris' websites](eric/urls.html)
• [Eric writes threatening rants about Brooks Brown](eric/writing/blotter.jpg)
The police blotter regarding investigation of the initial incident after Brooks' parents saw and reported the website.
• [RebtheJuvey WBS Page](trenchcoat.html) (mirror)
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/r/e/b/rebthejuvey.html
• [WBS chat profile for RebTheJuvey](eric/rebthejuvey.html) (mirror)
• [Rebldomkr WBS Page](eric/power.html) (mirror)
• [Reb's Doom II site](eric/doom.html)
Not an actual mirror - just graphics and links to wad files.
• [Screenshots of Reb's Doom II levels](eric/screenshots.html)
• **AOL Profiles**
- [Text version](profiles.html)
- [Screenshots](profiles2.html)
• **Mirrors of AOL directories**
\* [Rebdoomer](eric/ftpdirect.html) (mirror)
- [index.htm](eric/rebindex.html)
- [mama.htm](eric/mama.html) (mirror)
"Jo Mamma" joke page put together by REB [Eric Harris],
VoDkA [Dylan Klebold], and KiBBz [Zach Heckler]
• [Links paired with graphics from Eric's website](eric/links.html)
Not a mirror of the actual site - just the graphics.
• [Eric's AOL miscellaneous graphics](eric/graphics.html)
Not a mirror of his page, just the graphics.
• [The last look of Harris' website?](eric/fauxreb.html)
No. A hoax site set up after 4-20, claiming to be Eric's work that was later debunked by the FBI. Included here to keep the rumor debunked because for several months folks believed it was real.
| http://www.acolumbinesite.com/ericpage.php |
<html>
<head>
<title>New Hartford, MN</title>
<meta http-equiv="description" name="description"
content="A community of 3027 in south central Minnesota. Sections focused on town and
tourism related information. New Hartford is a comfortable place
to settle down. You will really feel at home. History dates back
to the mid 1800's when it was founded by a group of German and
Norwegian immigrants who left Hartford, Connecticut after the
chicken pox epidemic of '55. The culture and traditions that
the original immigrants brought with them from Germany and Norway
remain active today, giving New Hartford a distinctively nordic feel.">
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width="450"></td>
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</center>
<hr>
<center>
<h1><i><img alt="New Hartford, MN title stone"
src="pix/newhartfordgray.jpg" style="width: 795px; height: 100px;"></i></h1>
</center>
<center>
Our direct URL: http://City-NewHartford.US<br>
<h3>Come for a visit! Please stay for a lifetime!
</h3>
</center>
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</p>
<p><i>Welcome to <font size="+1"><b>New Hartford,</b></font> Minnesota.</i>
New Hartford is a community of 3027* in south central Minnesota. Please
enjoy our
pages. We have sections focused on town and tourism related
information. New Hartford is a comfortable place to settle down. It is
located on the banks of the East Green Earth River which flows into the
Mississippi just 5 miles southeast. You
will really feel at home. We are close to the Twin Cities and have many
tourist attractions.
You may even think that you recognize some of
these places! Minnesota is the 'Land of 1000 Lakes', LeSuer is in the
'Valley of the Jolly Green Giant', and New Hartford is in the <i>Land
of the Green Norsemen!</i><br>
</p>
<center>
<h3>See all about us! Go to our <a href="tour.html">Site Menu </a>to <i>take
a Virtual Tour of New Hartford!</i></h3>
</center>
<b><font size="+1">New Hartford, Minnesota's</font></b> history dates
back to the mid 1800's when it was founded by a group of German and
Norwegian immigrants who left Hartford, Connecticut after the <i>Great
Hartford
Circus Fire of '55</i>. The culture and traditions that the original
immigrants
brought with them from Germany and Norway remain active today, giving
New Hartford a distinctively European feel.<br>
<br>
<center>
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cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2">
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<td style="vertical-align: top;"><img src="pix/GN3.jpeg"
alt="The Green Norseman" style="width: 200px; height: 300px;"
vertical-align:="" top;=""><BR>
<center>90 Foot high <i>Green Norseman</i> Monument<br>
</center
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</center>
<br>
<p>
Join us for a wonderful time. Visit New Hartford during one of its many
seasonal festivals: Octoberfest (September), Yule Tumptur (Winter),
Findarvagon (Founder's Day - Spring) and Drenkfurdazin (Summer).
Wonderful food, wonderful accommodations and wonderful friends make
every day in New Hartford a <i>Special Day</i>!
</p>
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<h3><b><i>Site updated: January 1 and June 3 of this year.</i>
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<URL:http://City-NewHartford.US ><br>
© <a href="mailto:ddescy@gmail.com">Stan Johnson,</a> yearly
updates.</center>
<!--<P>A Cooperative Weather Station of the <A HREF="http://cominfo.nws.noaa.gov/">NationalWeather Service</A>, DEEP PORTAGE daily contributes <A HREF="http://www.soils.agri.umn.edu/research/climatology/doc/clim_cwg.html">climatalogicaldata</A>. Check our current Area Weather: <A HREF="http://www.weather.com:80/FLY/CURRENT/BRD.htm">Brainerd</A>or <A HREF="http://www.weather.com:80/FLY/CURRENT/BJI.htm">Bemidji</A>airport, <A HREF="http://markers.cfa.org/weather/MN_Radar.gif">Color Radar</A>of Midwest USA<P> <hr>Highlights of our German heritage and rich history plus information about sights you might want to come and see in person! <A HREF="map/">How about a New Hartford Street Map</a> to help you find your way around? HERE NOW!<P><HR><center><A HREF="festivals/festivals.html"><H3>A City of German Festivals</H3></a></center>Experience our friendly German Gemütlichkeit firsthand.<UL><li> <A HREF="/festivals/fasching.html">Fasching</a> Celebrate German Mardi Gras in New Hartford!<li> <A HREF="/festivals/heritagefest.html">Hermitagefest</a> Discover the Germany Hermit festival in Minnesota!<li> <A HREF="/festivals/mmf.html">Minnesota Festival of German Music</a> Enjoy a wide variety of good German music! <li> <A HREF="/festivals/oktoberfest.html">Foodfest</a> Sample our German food and music!<li> <A HREF="/festivals/christmas.html">Experience an old fashioned German Christmas</a> in New Hartford!</UL><P><HR><center><A HREF="map/"><H3>New Hartford Street Map</H3></a></center>A clickable map of the City of New Hartford with Places of Interest marked.<HR><center><A HREF="movies/cine3.html"><H3>Cinema 3 Theatre</H3></a></center>See the latest movies showing in New Hartford! Updated each Friday.-->
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</html> |
New Hartford, MN
| |
| --- |
| New Hartford Picture |
---
# *New Hartford, MN title stone*
Our direct URL: http://City-NewHartford.US
### Come for a visit! Please stay for a lifetime!
<!--
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*Welcome to **New Hartford,** Minnesota.*
New Hartford is a community of 3027\* in south central Minnesota. Please
enjoy our
pages. We have sections focused on town and tourism related
information. New Hartford is a comfortable place to settle down. It is
located on the banks of the East Green Earth River which flows into the
Mississippi just 5 miles southeast. You
will really feel at home. We are close to the Twin Cities and have many
tourist attractions.
You may even think that you recognize some of
these places! Minnesota is the 'Land of 1000 Lakes', LeSuer is in the
'Valley of the Jolly Green Giant', and New Hartford is in the *Land
of the Green Norsemen!*
### See all about us! Go to our [Site Menu](tour.html) to *take
a Virtual Tour of New Hartford!*
**New Hartford, Minnesota's** history dates
back to the mid 1800's when it was founded by a group of German and
Norwegian immigrants who left Hartford, Connecticut after the *Great
Hartford
Circus Fire of '55*. The culture and traditions that the original
immigrants
brought with them from Germany and Norway remain active today, giving
New Hartford a distinctively European feel.
| |
| --- |
| The Green Norseman
90 Foot high *Green Norseman* Monument
|
Join us for a wonderful time. Visit New Hartford during one of its many
seasonal festivals: Octoberfest (September), Yule Tumptur (Winter),
Findarvagon (Founder's Day - Spring) and Drenkfurdazin (Summer).
Wonderful food, wonderful accommodations and wonderful friends make
every day in New Hartford a *Special Day*!
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[](http://www4.clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://descy.50megs.com/NewHartford/newhtfd.html)
---
---
### ***Site updated: January 1 and June 3 of this year.***
| |
| --- |
| [Google](http://www.google.com/) |
<URL:http://City-NewHartford.US >
© [Stan Johnson,](mailto:ddescy@gmail.com) yearly
updates.
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<p>The site provides a comprehensive knowledge base about energy supply and battery technologies, battery applications, chargers and ancillary equipment.</p>
<p>It contains over 200 web pages of information and explanations, many of which are the equivalent of several A4 pages long.</p>
<p>It also contains a History of Technology (with a special mention of batteries of course)</p>
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<p>It should be useful to educators, product designers, battery applications engineers, electric traction specialists and energy systems buyers and planners.</p>
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<p><b>Sustainable Development</b> ?</p>
<p>Electric power generation and energy supply technologies.</p>
<p>The engineering without the politics</p>
<p><a href="electrical_energy.htm">Energy Supply Overview</a></p>
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<p><b>Economics of some domestic and grid scale energy capture systems</b>. (The cost of green energy)</p>
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<p><b>Everything you ever wanted to know about batteries</b></p>
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<p><a href="china_batteries.pdf"><b>Free Report</b> - Buying Batteries in China</a></p></td>
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<p><a href="chemistries.htm">Battery Technologies</a></p>
<p><a href="machines.htm">Electric Machines</a></p>
<p><a href="semiconductors.htm">Semiconductors</a></p>
<p><a href="graphene.htm">Graphene</a></p>
<p><a href="digital_logic.htm">Digital Logic</a> and <a href="computer_architecture.htm">Computer Design</a></p>
<p><a href="enigma.htm">Enigma's Cryptic Secrets</a></p>
<p><a href="history.htm#darby">Iron and Steel</a></p>
<p><a href="timekeepers.htm">Time</a></p>
<p><a href="rockets.htm">Rocket Science</a></p>
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<p><a href="search.htm">Technology Search Engine</a> <b>Find it Fast</b><a href="search.htm"></a></p>
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<p align="left">The information on this site was made available by <b>Woodbank Communications</b> an independent, technology consulting company. The information provided by the company is given freely but limited to what is published here on the site. Hopefully you will find what you want here. More information is added regularly to the site and any contributions or suggestions for improvement you wish to make will be gratefully received. We hope you find it helpful.</p>
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<p align="left">Except for <b>CHEEVC, Woodbank Communications</b> has no business relationship with, or financial interest in, any of the companies whose ads appear on the site. The advertising revenue contributes towards the costs of running the site and all such ads are selected and administered independently by <b>Google</b>.</p>
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<p align="left">The copyright of all the pages on the Electropaedia web site belongs to Woodbank Communications Ltd.</p>
<p>You may freely use extracts of the information published here in your own publications or Web sites but only if, in each instance, you prominently acknowledge <b>Electropaedia</b> as the source with a link to the web site as follows <a href="http://www.woodbank.com">www.electropaedia.com</a> or by means of a link directly to the relevant page on the <a href="http://www.mpoweruk.com">www.mpoweruk.com</a> domain. If you choose to take advantage of this opportunity we would also expect you to notify us at <a href="mailto:admin@woodbank.com">admin@woodbank.com</a> where we can find the publication in which the information is used.</p>
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<font style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS';font-size:18pt;"><b>Welcome to PublicStairs.com</b></font><font style="font-size:18pt;">,</font> <b>the web site devoted to the discovery and documentation of major outdoor public stairways anywhere in the world. This web site is a labor of love brought to you by Doug and Joan Beyerlein of Mill Creek, Washington. </b></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/23/2019: Stairways can be found in towns all along the Mississippi River. David Ryan brings us another in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Savanna, Illinois</a>. This stairway and others will be included in an upcoming book David is writing on Mississippi River stairways. I can't wait to see the book. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/22/2019: James Cho found the SE 24th Street Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Bellevue, Washington</a>. With 165 stairs it leads onto the Bellevue College campus. You can get both your exercise and your education in one place. Thanks, James! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/1/2019: The city of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Tacoma, Washington</a>, has built a new stairway adjacent to Point Defiance Park that includes slides for quick downhill travel. Evan Howard first told me about the new Wilson Way Stairway. Now it is your turn to find it for yourself. The slide is optional. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>9/18/2019: In the foothills of the Pyrenees is the town of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Puigcerda, Spain</a>. In Puigcerda is a funicular railroad and adjacent to the rail line is a 227-stair stairway leading up to the town square. Bill and Heidi Cusworth discovered this beautiful stairway during their recent visits to Spain and France. Check it out for yourself and if you are there in April join the annual foot race up the stairway.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>9/17/2019: Many of the beach towns along the California coast have great stairways leading down to the ocean. <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Pismo Beach, California</a>, is one of these towns. The stairway at the end of Wilmar Avenue, found by Mike Behlen, has 108 stairs. Need a better excuse to visit the beach? </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/26/2019: Bloomer Park in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Rochester, Michigan</a> has two major stairways hidden in the woods. Melanie Berent first told me about the stairway that she found and then while researching her stairway I found that David Garcia had found another in the same park. Now it is your turn to find them. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/25/2019: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Duluth, Minnesota</a> has a long stairway at North 7th Avenue West. As Christian Huelsman discovered, it actually starts near the intersection of W 1st Ave and Mesaba Ave but has some street breaks before it gets serious at W 4th St. From W 4th St it is continuous until it reaches W 8th St. The stairs are a little rustic but well worth a visit if you are in Duluth. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/24/2019: The city of <a class="s2" target="_self" href="index-000002.htm">Trail, British Columbia</a>, has an extensive system of public stairways (all of them covered against rain and snow). On September 28 United Way Trail and District will be hosting their annual "Storm the Stairs". This is a run/walk tour of many of Trail's stairways. For more info check out the <a class="s2" href="http://uwtraildistrict.org/event/storm-the-stairs-2/">Storm the Stairs web site</a>. Even if you miss their stair event I highly recommend that you visit their stairways in you are in that part of British Columbia. They have at least eight major stairways that climb the hills west of the Columbia River. They are well worth a visit. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/30/19: Recently Alana Bowman of <a class="s2" target="_self" href="index-000002.htm">Wellington, New Zealand</a>, told me about her website: <a class="s2" href="http://www.wellingtonsteps.com">www.wellingtonsteps.com</a>. It is a wonderful stairway (or "steps" as they say in NZ) website filled with photos and facts about Wellington steps. I have added a map showing the locations of the steps in case you want to visit them. Even if you don't plan on going to New Zealand check out her website. You will be impressed. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/12/2019: Before the winter snows arrived Steve Spaudie found a beautiful stairway in Rocky River Reservation, <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">North Olmsted, Ohio</a> (near Cleveland). The Fort Hill Stairs (156 stairs) can be found on the Fort Hill Loop Trail near the Nature Center.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/1/2018: Here is another find by David Ryan when he visited the surprising town of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Columbus, Indiana</a> (not Ohio): Mill Race Park Observation Deck - 132 stairs and a great view of the town and the adjacent Flatrock River. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/29/2018: For those of you who use my stair maps to find major public stairways you have probably seen the maps with the notation of For development purposes only and that the page cant load Google Maps correctly. After some discussion with CommunityWalk (the people who host the maps) we fixed the problem and the maps are now fully useable. I apologize for the inconvenience. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/25/2018: WE ARE STILL HERE. Here is a link to a great article on the stairs of Pittsburgh published in the October 2018 issue of Southwest: The Magazine, written by Bill Fink. The article is titled <a class="s2" href="https://www.southwestmag.com/stair-power/?fbclid=IwAR2-g93J5ZIrlzXyXPhN-aeJS197SkPwiIPvpjJri-tGcdAVgnv6_zlVJ4Y">Stair Power</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/29/2017: YES! We are still finding stairways - I am just very slow in adding them to this web site. Today we have two new stairways found by David Ryan: Tilghman Park Stairway (148 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Chandler, OK</a>, and the Cardiff Hill Stairway (232 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Hannibal, MO</a>. And I still have more to add when I can find the time. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/10/2016: In 2015 David Ryan walked the Camino de Santiago from Saint Jean Pied-de-Port, France, to Santiago de Compostela, Spain. He wrote about his journey in his blog <a class="s2" href="http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/">The Gentle Art of Wandering</a>. He included one post in his blog on the stairways that he encountered along the way. He found, documented, and photographed major stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Saint Jean Pied-de-Port, France</a>, <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Obanos, Spain</a>, and <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Burgos, Spain</a>. These are now on stair maps. Check them out or, better yet, go see them in person.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/2/2016: Another David Ryan stairway find is in the city of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Minneapolis, MN</a>. In his most recent trip he found two new stairways; on a previous trip in 2013 he found three stairways at Minneapolis's Minnehaha Falls Regional Park. Now they can all be found on the Minneapolis stair map. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/1/2016: David Ryan and his dog Petey wander to many interesting places. David tells about his adventures in his blog <a class="s2" href="http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/">The Gentle Art of Wandering</a> (recommended reading). Recently David and Petey were in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Milwaukee, WI</a>, and found four major stairways in that city. David even found one stairway by mistake without knowing it (I will let him tell the story). </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/31/2016: Earlier this year Jake and Cathy Jaramillo ventured to Spain where they found beautiful stairways in the cities of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Bilbao</a>, <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Getaria</a>, and <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">San Sebastian</a>. That sounds like a good reason to me to go to Spain. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>9/19/2016: Tamsin Ramsay has been exploring British Columbia and has found the following major stairways: Hendryx Street Stairway (174 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Nelson, BC</a>; the Waterfall Trail Stairway (392 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Fintry Provincial Park, BC</a>; and the Coquitlam Crunch (437 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Coquitlam, BC</a>. That is a lot of stairs. Thanks, Tamsin! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>9/18/2016: On the outskirts of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Saugatuck, MI</a>, Mike Lapchick reports the finding of the Mt Baldhead Stairway (302 stairs). As the name implies, the stairs lead to the top of Mt Baldhead, overlooking Lake Michigan. This is the first major stairway to be found in Michigan. Nice work, Mike! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>9/17/2016: Eric Jennings found the Powerline Trail Stairway (114 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Redmond, WA</a>; these stairs are almost right in my backyard and yet I had never seen them. It shows you that there are always more stairs to be found. Thanks, Eric! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>8/3/2016: Sally Brodie has discovered two stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">New Zealand</a>. The Mt Eden Steps (214 stairs) are in the city of Auckland. Further to the south in Whanganui are the Durie Hill Steps (191 stairs). What a good excuse to visit New Zealand! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>8/2/2016: Mark Ewell has found three great stairways in Memphis, TN. They are across the street from Tom Lee Park and lead up the bluff to the Riverwalk. The north stairway has 59 stairs, the middle 73, and the south 84. Unfortunately, none of the three meet my minimum stair count requirement of 100 stairs. But if you are in Memphis they are still well worth a visit. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>8/1/2016: Julian Michelucci (with assistance from Susan Stallard) has provided info on the Mori Point Stairway (208 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Pacifica, CA</a>. You can climb stairs and go whale watching all at the same place! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/21/2016: Dan Gutierrez in his neverending search for public stairways has found a previously unknown stairway (131 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">South Pasadena, CA</a>. Nice find, Dan! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/20/2016:</b></font> <font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>Judy Palidar found the Granite Falls Fishway Stairway (101 stairs) just outside of the town of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Granite Falls, WA</a>. It leads down to the fish ladder on the South Fork of the Stillaguamish River. This is a pretty spot for a picnic even if stairs are not your thing. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>7/19/2016: Sharon Galipeau found the Zimmerman Hill Stairway (232 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Arlington, WA</a>, and with directions from Judy Palidar I visited this new discovery. Very nice. Thank you both Sharon and Judy! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/24/2016: In Cincinnat!.com is Sherry Coolridge's article<a class="s2" href="http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/24/citys-outdoor-stairways-neglected-crumbling/84766642/"> "City's outdoor stairways neglected, crumbling"</a> about the poor condition of Cincinnati's stairways. It is a sorry situation in a city with many great stairways. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/15/2016: Help save a stairway: </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b></b></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';font-size:12pt;"><b>From Marcia Loney: Help save the Grand Staircase on the Eastern Oregon University campus in La Grande, Oregon. The price tag to save the Grand Staircase in La Grande is high and it is an uphill battle to obtain funding. Because the stairs are a pedestrian walkway we have applied for ConnectOregon funds through the Oregon Department of Transportation. Competition is stiff and we've been told that our case could be helped by letters of support. If you would like to write a letter of support for us it should/could focus on how public staircases not only provide pedestrian access, but can also improve the livability of a community as well as bring economic benefits (public events, tourism, etc.). The letter should be sent by May 20 to: Scott Turnoy, Interim ConnectOregon Manager, 555 13th Street NE, Suite 2, Salem, Oregon 97301. For more info: <a class="s30" href="http://www.facebook.com/savethegrandstaircase/">https://www.facebook.com/savethegrandstaircase/.</a> </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/10/2016: Check out this stair event in Tacoma, WA: Unleashed at Stadium Bowl is a fundraiser for Kindred Souls Foundation, an animal rescue founded in 2005. This August 7th will be the 6th annual race. They had nearly 400 participants last year, and expect to have over 600 this year. For more info: <a class="s2" href="http://www.unleashedatstadiumbowl.org/">http://www.unleashedatstadiumbowl.org/</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>4/28/2016: I found two new stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Kirkland, WA</a>; both start on the Cross Kirkland Corridor Trail. Check them out for yourself.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/25/2015: Dan Gutierrez has provided additional stair information for two stairways in<a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm"> Palos Verdes Estates, CA</a>, and five stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Rancho Palos Verdes, CA</a>. Thanks, Dan, for all of these new stairway locations! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/10/2015: Dan Gutierrez leads stair walks in the Greater LA area (for more info see his Facebook posts). Recently he found the Rattlesnake Spillway Stairway (273 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Rancho Palos Verde, CA</a>. That is a lot of stairs!  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/7/2015: Nicole Sanders discovered the Mesa Lane Steps (241 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Santa Barbara, CA</a>, and provided info and photos on the "Friends of Public Stairs" page on Facebook. Thanks, Nicole! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>11/6/2015: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Brookline, MA</a>, a suburb of Boston, has four major stairways. They are described in Linda Olson Pehlke's book <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Exploring the Paths of Brookline</a>. I explored them all last April, a few days after running the Boston Marathon. I am not sure which was more difficult: stairs or marathon. Find out for yourself. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/31/2015: The Kinnear Park Stairway is located on Queen Anne Hill in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Seattle, WA</a>. Michael Yadrick found this stairway in 2014 but it took me until now to count the number of stairs (125) and photograph the stairway. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b></b><b>10/31/2015: Bob Regan's new book <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Pittsburgh Steps: The Story of the City's Public Stairways</a>, is now available. This new book is an update of Bob's original Pittsburgh stair book: The Steps of Pittsburgh, which is now out of print. This new book includes new stair information and new photos of many of Pittsburgh's most noted stairways plus eight neighborhood walking tours. For more info go to our <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Books</a> page. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/31/2015: This past summer while in Dover, England, waiting for good weather for my wife Joan to swim the English Channel, we explored the local neighborhoods for stairways. We found three major stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Dover</a> and one in nearby <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Folkestone</a>. There are probably more. Let me know if you find one. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>10/23/2015: We are back with new stair info after a virus attack last March. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>3/2/2015: Just above the shores of Lake Taneycomo in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Branson, MO</a>, are the 338 Stone Steps, located in the Lakeside Forest Wilderness Area. Originally built in 1938, Shannon Cochran recently brought these stairs to my attention. Nice job, Shannon! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/27/2015: In <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">San Clemente, CA</a>, are three major stairways that lead from the residential neighborhoods down to the San Clemente Beach Trail and the Pacific Ocean. Jake and Cathy Jaramillo discovered these stairways on one of their many trips. Great find! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/11/2015: Just outside of Denver, near the town of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Morrison, CO</a>, is the Red Rocks Amphitheatre. It is best known for its concerts, but on non-concert days it is open to the public for stair climbing. According to Leslie Handmaker, from the bottom to the top there are 388 stairs. That is a good workout, especially at altitude. Thanks, Leslie! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/10/2015: Who knew that <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Edmonton, Alberta</a>, has stairs? Patricia Hildebrandt knew and following her lead I discovered that there are over 100 stairways in and near Edmonton. I found detailed info on eight major stairways (the longest being 261 stairs) and they are shown on the Edmonton stairs map. But if you are in Edmonton I still need information on the remaining undocumented stairs.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/4/2015: Robert Inman has just updated his <a class="s2" href="https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=BFCD91346C0233FC!5797&ithint=file%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AK-f4xy6m6mge-Y">Inman 300 Guidebook</a>. The guidebook describes in detail the 218-mile, 345-stairway (with a total of 26,059 stairs) urban thru-hike of Los Angeles designed by himself, Andrew Lichtman, and Ying Chen. Kelley Wiley Lane of Seattle recently walked the entire Inman 300 between January 4 and 15 of this new year. You can read about her adventure on her blog <a class="s2" href="http://adventuresbyfoot.blogspot.com/2015/01/sunday-afternoon-stroll-on-inman-300.html">http://adventuresbyfoot.blogspot.com</a>. Now it is your turn to get outside and have an adventure on the stairs in your neighborhood. Tell us what you find.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/3/2015: Robert Inman has found three major stairways in the Montclair District of<a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm"> Oakland, CA</a>. The longest one has 267 stairs. Great find, Robert! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>2/1/2015: Here is another 1000 Steps (actually 1043 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Huntingdon County, PA</a>. This 1000 Steps climbs to the top of Jacks Mountain. That sounds like a good workout. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/31/2015: Just like there are multiple Jacob's Ladders (see below) there are multiple stairways locally named "1000 Steps". This new find is in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Laguna Beach, CA</a>. This 1000 Steps is actually 228 stairs, but the locals say that when climbing them they feel like 1000. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/30/2015: More stairs in Australia: In the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Dandenong Ranges National Park, Victoria</a> (near Melbourne) is the 1000 Steps (actually 996 stairs) up through Fern Tree Gully.</b></font>  </div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/29/2015: It turns out there is more than one Jacob's Ladder. This new one is in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Perth, Western Australia</a>, and has 242 stairs. Its story is told at <a class="s2" href="http://www.lifeonperth.com/jacobsladder.htm">lifeonperth.com/jacobsladder.htm</a>. Perth has a second major outdoor public stairway in nearby Kings Park. This is the Kokoda Walk Stairway wtih 150 stairs. Both can be found on the Stair Maps page. Enjoy.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/28/2015: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Jacob's Ladder</a> is a stairway in Jamestown on the island of Saint Helena in the South Atlantic Ocean, but it is not just any outdoor public stairway. It goes straight up Ladder Hill: no landings, just 699 stairs with a constant 11-inch run and an 11-inch rise. That makes for a 100% grade or slope.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>The ascent record is 5 minutes, 16.78 seconds by Graham Doig. He went up using all fours (both hands and feet</b><b> on the stairs). There is a lot more information about Jacob's Ladder and Saint Helena Island at <a class="s2" href="http://www.sainthelenaisland.info/jacobsladder.htm">sainthelenaisland.info/jacobsladder.htm</a>. Check it out.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/27/2015: This isn't the best time of year to be visiting stairways in Minnesota, but when the snow melts take a drive to <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Split Rock State Park</a> on the shores of Lake Superior and visit the 174-stair stairway found by Susan Ralph on one of her many travels. Thanks, Susan! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/23/2015: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Hollister, Missouri</a>, has the Cedar Steps (229 stairs), found by Shannon Cochran. Nice find, Shannon!  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/20/2015: New stairways recently discovered by Stair Seekers include: Hillside Lane Stairway (134 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Whittier, CA</a>, by Robert Inman; Majestic Park Stairs (106 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Las Vegas, NV</a>, by Ron Purewal; three stairways in Pat Hurley Park (longest is 157 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Albuquerque, NM</a>, by David Ryan; and Steep Canyon Stairway (110 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Diamond Bar, CA</a>, by Alex Rose. Thank you all. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/2/2015: 2014 brought us another new stair book to add to the list in the <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Books</a> section of this web site. This new book that came out in the late summer (and that I should have mentioned at that time) is David Ryan's "The Bisbee Stairs: Exploring the Stairways, Trails, and Hidden Corners of Bisbee, Arizona". This slim volume of 97 pages is packed with information about the stairs, their history, and the sorts of things that you will see as you climb their wandering pathways. I had hoped to add all of David Ryan's discoveries to my Bisbee stair map prior to announcing the book, but I now realize that that would just further delay my getting this announcement to you. Even if you never plan on going to Bisbee - READ THIS BOOK. You just may change your mind.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/1/2015: Make your New Year's resolution to be to climb more stairs. Mine is to update this web site more often. When you see gaps in dates or a long period of inactivity it doesn't mean that I have lost interest; it means that work and other activities are taking up all of my time. However, I am still collecting stair information. I just need more time to put it on the stair maps. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>8/8/2014: <a class="s2" href="http://www.healthunlocked.com/stepjockey">www.Healthunlocked.com/stepjockey</a> is a new stair climbing community that was launched today. </b></font><font style="color:#333333;font-family:'Calibri';"><b>It's a completely open space for people to share advice and tips. Join for free and share your stair stories. This is the place to</b></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b> </b></font><font style="color:#333333;font-family:'Calibri';"><b>help spread the word about how great stairs are for health and wellbeing. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>6/10/2014: There is an article today in the <a class="s2" href="http://online.wsj.com/articles/in-pittsburgh-residents-are-divided-on-what-to-do-about-famous-staircases-1402366559">Wall Street Journal</a> about the stairways of Pittsburgh, including a brief mention of this web site. The citizens of Pittsburgh need to unite to save their stairs! Read the article for more information. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>6/2/2014: The </b></font><font style="color:#141823;font-family:'Calibri';"><b><a class="s2" href="http://www.facebook.com/events/118354745001844/?ref=29&ref_notif_type=plan_mall_activity&source=1">Seattle Stairway Solstice Foot Tour</a> will be held on </b></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>Saturday, June 21, 5:00 am to 10:00 pm. The event is organized by </b></font><font style="color:#141823;font-family:'Calibri';"><b>Michael Yadrick. This urban run/hike adventure will take place on one of the longest days of the year in order to traverse Seattle's public stairways safely in one day. While the public stairways are an incredible asset for Seattle as well as targets to navigate towards, the endeavor will also highlight all the Emerald City has to offer: gorgeous views, natural areas, elevation change, gritty littered streets, tree-lined boulevards, cafes, etc. It will be long and no one has attempted it before. Preliminary survey of the route looks to be 60+ miles, 9,000 feet of elevation change, and 15,000 stairs to traverse. It will be epic whether you choose to join in all or a portion of the stairways. The start is at 5:12 AM at SW 98th St Stairway, south of Brace Point and the Fauntleroy Ferry dock and the finish is at 10:00 PM at summit of Queen Anne Hill, corner of Warren and Lee. Come and do all or part. More info and route maps at Facebook page "Seattle Stairway Solstice Foot Tour". </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/21/2014: Two more major stairways (and some interesting additional minor ones) have been found by David Ryan in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Miami, Arizona</a>, while on his many wanderings. Good find, David! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/13/2014: The City of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Wallace, Idaho</a>, has produced the "South Hill Stairs" map showing the locations of public stairways near the downtown, including the number of stairs. I have updated my stair map of Wallace and added the 4th Street Stairs (147 stairs).  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/12/2014: There are stairs on the Oregon Trail (or close to it) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Pendleton, Oregon</a>. Jake and Cathy Jaramillo found the 113-stair Isaac Avenue Stairway on their recent travels.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/9/2014: Pat Morley found a gold mine of stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Ketchikan, Alaska</a>, last summer. Explore the Alaskan wilderness without leaving town. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>5/1/2014: Howard Petersen recounted the number of stairs on <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Murphy Ranch West Stairway</a> in Los Angeles' Rustic Canyon. The correct total is 454 stairs (I originally received a report of 321 stairs). Howard reports that there are 413 stairs on the major section plus another 41 above a small dirt plateau (where there is a water tank) before finally reaching the Sullivan Fire Road. Thanks for the update, Howard! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b></b><b>4/14/2014: The Spanish Steps in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Rome, Italy</a>, were featured on the 4/13/2014 episode of the CBS television reality show, The Amazing Race. The contestants had to count the number of stairs (135)! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/23/2014: In <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Wheeling, West Virginia</a>, Martin Wach and Urban Agroforestry have worked with the local community to restore and maintain two beautiful and long stairways on Vineyard Hill. This newly reforested area was the site of a 31-acre vineyard operated by the Catholic Church in the late 1800s. There are great views of Wheeling and the Ohio Valley from the top. Visit Wheeling and see for yourself. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/21/2014: Jake Jaramillo reports: "Two exciting stairway events coming soon in Seattle! Feb. 8th is the second annual Stairway Walks Day, when 18 routes from our book will be walked simultaneously by 450 people. Then April 26th, during Earth Week, we're launching another citywide event, "Stairway Spring Cleaning Day." With these two linked events, we hope to help elevate awareness of our historic stairway legacy and build stairway culture. We think that'll make it likelier our stairway network will get a fair share of city money for maintenance and enhancements." For more information contact Jake at <a class="s2" href="mailto:jakejaramillo@comcast.net">jakejaramillo@comcast.net</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/12/2014: More Minnesota stairs from David Ryan and myself in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">St Paul, MN</a>. Now if it would only warm up so that people could visit them without needing a toboggan</b></font>.  </div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/11/2014: Add <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Red Wing, MN</a>, to David Ryan's list of stairway cities found in 2013. Nice job, David.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/10/2014: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Stillwater, MN</a>, stairways were explored by David Ryan in the spring of 2013. He found 3 major stairways, ranging in stairs from 120 (Chestnut Stairway) to 157 (Main Street Stairway) plus a nice town on the banks of the St Croix River. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/9/2014: Another David Ryan find: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Lynchburg, VA</a>, stairways and a lot of history. See for yourself. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/8/2014: From Quito, Ecuador comes the following news: </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>"</b><b>My name is Mateo Muñoz, from Quito-Ecuador, Im an employee at the </b><b>Metropolitan Institute of Patrimony</b><b>, a part of the Municipality of Quito, its the institution in charge of restoring, maintaining and revitalizing the tangible patrimony of the city as well as the intangible, cultural heritage of the district. We are currently undertaking a project of revitalizing the public stairways of the historical center of the city, it has an axis of participation from the neighbors as a means for political organization for each sector of the old downtown and as a guarantee that they will maintain themselves as public spaces of quality and occupied by activity and community. We might see great art on some of them, theatre on others, any means of culture reflectiveness and apropiation that can flourish. The products of the project will begin to happen on one to two months. I'll be happy to share this information with you, only in the historial center and surrounding areas we have more than 170 public stairways, adding the whole city we easily surpass the 200." Who wants to go to Quito and check out these stairways? Contact Mateo at <a class="s2" href="mailto:mateo28488@hotmail.com">mateo28488@hotmail.com</a> for more information. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/7/2014: Want to know how many calories you are burning while climbing stairs? Check out the <a class="s2" href="https://www.stepjockey.com/">StepJockey</a> web site. It allows you to add your favorite stair workout location (either outdoors or indoors) to their StepJockey stair map and locate other stair workout locations. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/6/2014: Caroline Overcash leads a group of stair climbing adventurers in the Carolinas. Before winter set in they hiked/climbed the 336-stair Backside Trail Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Crowders Mountain State Park, NC</a>, near Gastonia. Check it out for yourself (but wait until it warms up a bit). </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/5/2014: David Ryan continues to find more stairways: this time on the grounds of the Tennessee State Capitol in <a class="s2" target="_self" href="index-000002.htm">Nashville</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/4/2014: If you are into the Seattle stair scene check out Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's <a class="s2" href="http://www.seattlestairwaywalks.com/">SeattleStairwaysWalks.com</a> for all of the latest news and info. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-family:'Calibri';"></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';"><b>1/3/2014: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! I had a computer crash last autumn and was too busy to find all of my web site files and update this site. I hope to do better in the coming year</b></font><font style="font-family:'Calibri';">. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>8/14/2013: </b></font><font style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:11pt;"><b>PJ Glassey will lead interested stair climbers up and down the Howe Street Stairway in Seattle (the 4th longest outdoor stairway in the USA) on 8/24/13 at 8:30 am. Climbers will learn valuable techniques on stair climbing ranging from how to maximize the workout, to reducing muscle soreness, and everything in between. This is all part of </b><b>Lifewise Health Plan</b><b> of Washington's new fitness inspiration program through </b><b>Actively Northwest</b><b>, using #FitMob as the signal to their customers to get active and get fit. You're invited too! There is no requirement that you be a Lifewise customer either. It's highly advised to go </b><b><a class="s2" href="http://xgym.com">xgym.com/stairs</a></b><b> and check out the great info there to brief yourself beforehand so you show up informed and ready to go! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>8/6/2013: David Ryan's many stair finds include <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Dubuque, IA</a>, with two major stairways (not including two other abandoned stairways) and many other minor ones. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>8/5/2013: David Ryan's many wanderings (entertainingly described in his "<a class="s2" href="http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/">The Gentle Art of Wandering</a>" blog) includes finding three major stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Galena, IL</a> (a fourth stairway is closed). More info on his stairway finds in other cities and towns to come. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>8/4/2013: I did a recount of the Dipsea stairs in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Mill Valley, CA</a>, in May and found that the lower stairway now has 316 stairs (up from 313). I did a similar count of Gil's Stairs in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Hood River, OR</a>, in July and found that they had also increased by 3 (from 413 to 416). Is the Earth expanding? </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>8/3/2013: There has been a long break in the update of the stair info on this web site due to a number of factors: the largest (and most time consuming) factor being the addition of two Alaskan malamute puppies to our family in February. We are now down to one (a male, named Tuolumne). You can see his photo on the <a class="s2" href="index_00000c.htm">Who We Are</a> page. Life is slowly returning to a new normal. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/16/2013: If you find climbing stairs the conventional way not challenging enough then try climbing them on a unicycle like Terry Peterson does in his "<a class="s2" href="index_000018.htm">Extreme Unicycling</a>" video.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/8/2013: Tomorrow (Wednesday, 1/9/2013) is "Take the Stairs" Day, courtesy of <a class="s2" href="http://stairsport.com">stairsport.com</a>. But let's make every day "Take the Stairs" Day starting now! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/7/2013: Iceland has stairs! Susan Ott Ralph found them last summer when she and her husband visited <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Skogafoss, Iceland</a>. The 380-Skogafoss stairs climb to the top of the Skogafoss waterfall. Nice climb! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/6/2013: Lucas Boyle has produced an entertaining video of his (and two friends) travels up and down the many West Seattle stairways - all in a single day and with bicycles! Go to the <a class="s2" href="index_000018.htm">video page</a> to view his video. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/5/2013: If you want to visit Thai stairways check out the Wat Tham Suea Stairway just outside of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Krabi, Thailand</a>, on the Andaman Coast. Wat Tham Suea (Tiger Cave Temple) Stairway has 1237 stairs and gains over 1000 feet. <a class="s2" href="http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thailand/andaman-coast/wat-tham-seua">LonelyPlanet.com</a> provides a good description of Wat Tham Suea and the stairway. There is also an excellent <a class="s2" href="index_000018.htm">video</a> of the stairway produced by Dornz Arrummy Rojvithee. Info on the Wat Tham Suea Stairway was provided to me by Vern Lovic (Vern's web site is <a class="s2" href="http://www.goupit.com">GoUpIt.com</a>) and John Stockton. Thank you both! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/4/2013: Susan Ott Ralph reports that the Ferdinand-53rd Stairway in Seattle has been rebuilt by the City of Seattle and looks much nicer than the old stairway, although 9 stairs were lost in the process. New info and photos are found on the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Seattle</a> map. Thanks, Susan! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/3/2013: For Seattle stair walkers circle Saturday, February 9, on your calendar for Stairway Walks Day, sponsored by Feet First promoting walkable communities. On that Saturday there will be 15 organized walks, featuring stairway walks described in Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's new book, "Seattle Stairway Walks". Go to <a class="s2" href="http://feetfirst.org/events/stairway-walks-day">feetfirst.org</a> for more info. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b></b><b>Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's new book, "<a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Seattle Stairway Walks</a>" is now available in bookstores from The Mountaineers Books. This is a great little pocket guide to stairways through the Seattle metropolitan area. It even includes QR codes.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/2/2013: Robert Skip Sandberg has published the second edition of his book "<a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Steps, Lanes and Paths of Mill Valley</a>". This new edition contains more beautiful photos of Mill Valley, California, stairways and one new stairway not included in the first edition. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/1/2013: In the spring of 2012 Bob Inman, </b><b>Andrew Lichtman, and Ying Chen undertook an epic journey to walk 300 public stairways scattered across the Los Angeles basin in ten days. Their book "<a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">The 300: The Way of the Stairs Across Los Angeles</a>" is the story of their journey. More info about their travels can be found on their web site <a class="s2" href="http://www.300lastairways.com/">300LAStairways.com</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>12/18/2012: The gap in adding new info on this page is not due to a lack of interest or material, but only due to a lack of time on my part. I hope to find some time in the next few days to get caught up. That said, I recently joined Incline Friends, a group working to make the Manitou Incline in Colorado officially open to public access. Manitou Incline is one of the longest, steepest rural stairways in the country. You can get more info at <a class="s2" href="http://inclinefriends.ning.com/">http://inclinefriends.ning.com/</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>9/8/2012: Florida is the flattest state in the United States. Does it have any major outdoor public stairways? I didn't think so, but thanks to Liz Newman the answer is YES! The <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">University of Florida Gator Stadium</a> in Gainesville is open to public use of its stairs. Check them out! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/23/2012: Shaun Hoffman has found another <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Happy Valley, OR</a>, stairway: 147th Ave Stairway with 113 stairs. Keep it up, Shaun! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/22/2012: David Ryan in his wanderings has found another stairway, just east of St. Louis. This is the 156-stair Monks Mound Stairway leading to the top of Monks Mound in Cahokia State Park in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Collinsville, IL</a>. This stairway leads to the top of the large complex of Indian mounds found in the United States. Thanks, David! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/21/2012: For years I have heard rumors of a giant stairway in the hills southeast of Portland, Oregon, but I never had a specific location. Shaun Hoffman of Happy Valley, OR, may have found it with his discovery of the 442-stair Hilltop Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Happy Valley, Oregon</a>. It looks like quite a climb! Great find, Shaun! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/20/2012: The SFGate.com article (see below) includes the 139-stair Arch Stairway (aka Larkspur Steps) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Larkspur, CA</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/19/2012: The San Francisco Chronicle web site SFGate.com has a good article on San Francisco Bay Area stairways: "<a class="s2" href="http://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/article/Staircases-step-in-right-direction-3794299.php">Staircases: step in right direction</a>". </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/10/2012: Julian Michelucci has a great web site <a class="s2" href="http://stairwayfreedom.com/">Stairways Are Freedom</a> where he documents the many stairways that he explores in the San Francisco Bay Area. One of his recent finds is the 119-stair Seal Point Park Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">San Mateo, CA</a>. Thanks for the info, Julian! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/25/2012: If you are looking for great ocean views try the 218-stair Point Vicente Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Rancho Palos Verdes, CA</a>; info courtesy of Jacques Monier. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/24/2012: Naomi Goehle has found a beautiful 105-stair stairway leading up to the Jackson County Courthouse (now the Jackson County Library) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Sylva, North Carolina</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/23/2012: David Ryan finds another stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">New York City</a>. The W 155th Stairway is in Manhattan and is a short walk from the old Polo Grounds, where more stairs can be found. Check for yourself.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/16/2012: Nice article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette about a community group, Community Steps Cooperative, headed by M.J. Flott and Alex Lake, that is working to preserve and maintain Pittsburgh's public stairways. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/6/2012: John Smiley has written "<a class="s2" href="http://www.johnsmiley.com/main/stairs.htm">The Complete Book of Stair Climbing, 2012 Edition</a>". I have not read the book, but it looks like a good book for competitive stair racers. John donates $1 of each book sale to American Lung Association. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/22/2012: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Port Angeles, Washington</a>, is just across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Victoria, BC. Jacques Monier says that from the top of Port Angeles's 106-stair Laurel Street Stairs you can see all of the way to Canada. Go take a peek at the view! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/20/2012: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Quebec City</a> has escalier (stairways). Cap-Blanc Stairs are the longest with 398 stairs, according to <a class="s2" href="http://www.quebecregion.com/en/quebec-city-and-area/stairways?a=vis">quebecregion.com</a>. Check them out for yourself. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/19/2012: You can find stairways in the far north of Canada in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Prince Rupert, British Columbia</a>, thanks to Jacques Monier. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/15/2012: Jake Jaramillo reports that the City of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Seattle</a> Department of Transportation has rebuilt the Spokane-61st Stairway and it now has more than 100 stairs (109, to be exact). Thanks, Jake. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>6</b></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>/10/2012: We now have stairs in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Oakland, California</a>, courtesy of Dan Schulman of Oakland Urban Paths. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/9/2012: Another good article about stairs is on the<a class="s2" href="http://www.governing.com/blogs/by-the-numbers/longest-public-stairways-in-us-cities.html"> </a><a class="s2" href="http://www.governing.com/blogs/by-the-numbers/longest-public-stairways-in-us-cities.html">Governing.com</a> blog site. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/8/2012: Who knew that <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Harpers Ferry, West Virginia</a>, has stairs? David Ryan did, and he provides us with the first major public outdoor stairway in the state of West Virginia. Thanks, David! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/7/2012: Excellent newspaper article about Cincinnati stairways by Steven Rosen in today's <a class="s2" href="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120607/LIFE07/306070028/Queen-City-stairs?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s">Cincinnati Enquirer</a>. It is great to see renewed interest in preserving and promoting Cincinnati's historic stairways. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/1/2012: If you like tea at the top of your stairs check out this teahouse in China: <a class="s2" href="http://www.uqpu.net/teahouse/">Teahouse at the Southern Peak</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>5/30/2012: David Ryan, author of the book "The Gentle Art of Wandering" (see 3/19/2012 entry below) provides us with info and photos of unique stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Ohio (Miamisburg Indian Mound stairs</a>) and <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Georgia (Amicalola Falls State Park staircases</a>). Check them out! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>5/29/2012: Scott Stanley reports that <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Austin, Texas</a>, has stairs. The best are at Mount Bonnell and include a great view of the city. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>5/8/2012: How many steps does it take to climb to the moon? To find out and to participate in the 2012 Climb to the Moon go to <a class="s2" href="http://moonclimb.com/">moonclimb.com</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>5/6/2012: Richmond Beach Park in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Shoreline, Washington</a>, (just north of Seattle) has both beach access to Puget Sound and a major stairway with 199 stairs. Great views from the top.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>4/7/2012: If you like walking not only up stairs, but also on other types of terrain then check out Patricia Jewett's new web site: <a class="s2" href="http://www.allthingswalking.com/index.html">All Things Walking</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>4/3/2012: I found this photo on the "Stair race training buds" Facebook page: </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>We should advocate for these symbols on all public stairways where there is a choice. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/20/2012: There are two major types of stair books: guides to neighborhoods (e.g., Charles Flemings Secret Stairs books) and photographic essays (Robert Sandbergs Steps, Lanes, and Paths of Mill Valley). David Ryans new book <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">The Gentle Art of Wandering</a> is a third stair path: the philosophy of using stairways to wander or explore. Ryan uses stairways (and other transportation venues) to explore the big and the little that surrounds all of us, but is often invisible to our busy lives. In Chapter 4 Ryan describes his wandering the hills and stairways of Los Angeles and the discoveries he makes in the process. He describes his process of seeing and connecting with the environment, whether it is urban, rural, or wilderness. This is an important book to read. For more info go to the <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">book page</a>.</b></font><font style="font-size:9pt;">  </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/19/2012: David Ryan (author of <a class="s2" href="http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/">"The Gentle Art of Wandering"</a>) wandered into the old mining town of Miami, Arizona, and discovered the Keystone Stairs (155 stairs). The town of Miami holds an annual stairclimb every April. See the stairs on the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Miami, AZ, stairs map</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/12/2012: If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area check out the <a class="s2" href="http://www.oaklandurbanpaths.org">Oakland Urban Paths</a> group which is regularly featured in the blog <a class="s2" href="http://blog.ouroakland.net/2012/03/oakland-urban-paths-oakmore-highlands.html">Our Oakland</a>. They know all of the local Oakland area stairways and a lot more. Looks like a fun group. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/11/2012: While running along Lake Washington in Seattle I ran past the newly rebuilt Jackson Stairway. The number of stairs has been reduced from 140 to 135, but the new stairway is very nice. Check it out if you are in the neighborhood. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/9/2012: Randy Wilson reports the discovery of the Birch Stairway in Camas, Washington (near Portland, Oregon). The stairway is located at the end of Birch Street between NE 7th Ave and NE 12th Ave. Unfortunately, it has only 94 stairs and does not meet the 100-stair minimum requirement to be included on the stair map. But it is still worth a visit if you are in the neighborhood. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/8/2012: The lack of news is purely a function of my busy work schedule. If you have new stair information please let me know. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>11/14/2011: <img src="index_i0000ab.jpg" border="0" align="middle" width="124" height="67" /> </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>An eco-friendly urban exercise area concept by Michael Jantzen is a series of stairways that can be built anywhere (hills optional). More info in <a class="s2" href="http://www.greenmuze.com/build/design/4281-eco-friendly-urban-exercise-area.html">GreenMuze</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>11/3/2011: While photographing Seattle's Discovery Park South Bluff and Hidden Valley stairways I found the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">North Bluff Stairway</a> (201 stairs); also another Seattle downtown stairway (Lower Market Stairway with 110 stairs). </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>10/22/2011: For those of you who like stair running/racing take a look at Trevor Folgering's new web site <a class="s2" href="http://www.stairclimbcanada.com">StairClimbCanada.com</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>10/6/2011: The small mining town of Wallace, Idaho, is rediscovering its stair heritage. You can see their two major stairways (7th Street Stairs: 154 stairs; 6th Street Stairs: 211 stairs) on the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Wallace map</a> and a <a class="s2" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWA83bVIfIo&feature=related">video of their stairs</a>, produced by Randy Knight. They have a lot of work to do to rebuild their historical wood stairways. If you would like to contribute send your tax deductible donation to the City of Wallace, City Clerk, 703 Cedar St, Wallace, ID 83873. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>10/5/2011: I discovered two trail stairways in Seattle's Discovery Park: South Bluff Stairway (216 stairs) and Hidden Valley Stairway (108 stairs). Find them on the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Seattle map</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>9/22/2011: Just outside of Chicago are the Swallow Cliff stairs (126 stairs) in the Swallow Cliff Forest Preserve in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Cook County, IL</a>. Check out this <a class="s2" href="http://youtu.be/skNr8Mv2hkM">video of the stairs</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b></b><b>9/20/2011: We now have a new longest concrete stairway in the United States: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Murphy Ranch East Stairway</a> (512 stairs!) in Los Angeles. Dave Ptach counted the stairs. Good work, Dave! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>9/16/2011: If you want a real challenge try the Spitzhaus Stairway (397 stairs) near <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Radebeul, Germany</a>. This is the site of the annual <a class="s2" href="http://www.treppenlauf.de/">Sachsischer Mt Everest Treppenmarathon (Saxon Mt Everest Marathon stair race).</a> </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b></b><b>9/14/2011: Stairway found on Mt Baldy (215 stairs) in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Wimberley, Texas</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>9/13/2011: Bob Inman visited the Manayuk neighborhood of <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Philadelphia</a> and found seven major stairways. Take a look. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b></b></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>8/9/2011: <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Bellevue, Washington</a>, has a stairway in Kelsey Creek Park. Check it out! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/8/2011: <a class="s2" href="http://www.kcet.org/socal/socal_wanderer/outdoors/secret-stairs-los-angeles-video.html">Zach Behrens of KCET Los Angeles</a> blogs and videos about walking the "Secret Stairs" of Los Angeles. Check out the video and meet author Charles Fleming. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/7/2011: With the help of Laura O. Foster's book "Portland City Walks" I recently found and documented two stairways in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Oregon City, Oregon</a>. The McLoughlin House Stairway (215 stairs) starts in a tunnel under railroad track on the edge of downtown Oregon City. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>7/6/2011: While on my Mill Valley visit I found two stairways in neighboring <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Sausalito, CA</a>. There are more in Sausalito to be found. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>6/29/2011: I recently returned from a week in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Mill Valley, California</a> where I found 21 major stairways plus did a recount of the famous Dipsea stairs (new total 686). To help find the stairways I used the City of Mill Valley map "<a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">A Guide to Mill Valley Steps, Lanes, Paths</a>" and the new book "<a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Steps, Lanes, and Paths of Mill Valley</a>" by Robert Skip Sandberg. There are still more Mill Valley stairways to be found. </b></font></div>
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<b></b><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>5/14/2011: Based on information provided by Steve Rock and Rick McMichael I found the 290-stair Eagle Landing Park Stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Burien, WA</a>. It leads down to the beach on Puget Sound. </b></font></div>
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<b></b><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>4/26/2011: While in the San Francisco Bay Area I discovered this 105-stair Foothill College stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Los Altos Hills, CA</a>. This is the only major outdoor stairway that I know of on the San Francisco Peninsula.  </b></font></div>
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<b></b><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>4/16/2011: Another <a class="s2" href="index_00001c.htm">Seattle Times article about stairs</a>. This one was written and sketched by Gabriel Campanario, Seattle Times news artist.  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>4/2/2011: Premera has donated a giant box of "</b></font><font style="color:#FF0000;font-size:11pt;"><b>I TAKE THE STAIRS</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>" buttons, so I have lots and lots of buttons if you and your stair friends want some. Go to the <a class="s2" href="index_00001b.htm">buttons page</a> for more details. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/20/2011: Discovered another stairway (100-stair <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Lincoln Park North Stairway</a>) in Seattle. Seattle is now tied with San Francisco for third place for the city with the most number of major public outdoor stairways. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>3/1/2011: Ted Smith and family has found the first documented major public outdoor stairway in <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Richmond, VA</a>. Check out the 157-stair Libby Hill Stairway. Thanks, Ted! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/27/2011: I am changing my stairs email address to <a class="s2" href="mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net">beyerlein@comcast.net</a> because of problems with my business email address. Please use this new email address until further notice. - Doug Beyerlein </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/25/2011: Read in the <a class="s2" href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014325366_stairs25m.html">Seattle Times</a> an excellent article about Susan Ott Ralph quest to find all of the public stairways in Seattle. And see some of the stairways tonight (7 PM) at her slide show at the Montlake Community Center in Seattle. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/22/2011: Linda Nicholas has provided info and photos of the 245-stair <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Lang Trail Stairway</a> in Peachland, British Columbia. Thanks, Linda! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/14/2011: I received more "</b></font><font style="color:#FF0000;font-size:9pt;"><b>I TAKE THE STAIRS</b></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>" buttons from Premera LifeWise Health Plan of Washington, courtesy of Kelly Jones. I will mail you free buttons if you email me your postal address and the number of buttons that you want (you don't have to live in Washington state to participate). All that I ask in return is that you send me a digital photo of each person who gets a button. I will put the photos on the new <a class="s2" href="index_00001b.htm">"I Take the Stairs Button" page</a>. Check it out!  </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/7/2011: The first Hawaiian stairway has been found! Check out the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Koko Crater Railway Trail Stairway</a> with 1207 stairs! And this is not the longest stairway in Hawaii. The Haiku Stairs are 3922 stairs long, but currently access to them is closed to the public. We hope that changes soon. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>2/1/2011: Susan Ott Ralph continues to find <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Seattle stairways</a>. She has found five previously undocumented major stairways: #74 Raye (106 stairs), #75 Crescent (103), # 76 Madrona Park (100), #77 Horton (100), and #78 Highland (112). Excellent work, Susan! And remember her talk on 2/25. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>1/31/2011: Portland, Oregon, stair walkers should put on their calendar the Heartbreaker Walk on 2/12. This 5K and 10K walk visits many of NW Portland's hidden and not-so-hidden stairways and is organized by the Columbia River Volksports Club. More info available at <a class="s2" href="http://www.walking4fun.org">www.walking4fun.org</a>. </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>1/20/2011: Susan Ott Ralph will be giving a </b></font><font style="color:#0000FF;font-size:9pt;"><b>talk on Seattle Stairs on Friday, February 25, 7:00 PM, at the Montlake Community Center, 1618 E Calhoun St, Seattle.</b></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b> She will briefly describe 29 walks that feature the best stairs. She will show some of her photographs of the different styles of stairs in Seattle and her candidates for some categories of stairs: highest, longest, most beautiful, most obscure, best view, most urban, least urban, oldest, most artistic, and the ones that capture the essense of Seattle. Put this event on your calendar! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>1/19/2011: Colleen Neff, president of the Berkeley Path Wanderers, has provided photos of the <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Berkeley stairways</a> plus information on Poppy Path Stairway (193 stairs). Thanks, Colleen! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:9pt;"></font><font style="font-size:9pt;"><b>1/12/2011: Fred Beyerlein (no relation) of Longboat Key, FL, has provided info about The Approach, the 147-stair entrance to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in Troy, NY. See <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Troy, NY stair map</a> for photos and more details. Thanks, Fred! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>1/1/2011: </b></font><font style="font-size:13pt;"><b>New Year's Resolution: Let's make 2011 the "Year of the Stairs".</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b> To help promote stair useage LifeWise Health Plan of Washington is giving out free </b></font><font style="color:#FF0000;font-size:11pt;"><b>"I TAKE THE STAIRS"</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b> buttons. I will mail you free buttons if you email me your postal address and the number of buttons that you want (you don't have to live in Washington state to participate). All that I ask in return is that you send me a digital photo of each person who gets a button. I will put the photos on the new <a class="s2" href="index_00001b.htm">"I Take the Stairs Button" page</a>. Check it out!  </b></font></div>
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<b></b><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>What U.S. city has the greatest number of documented major outdoor stairways? Which city has the longest (most number of stairs) stairway? Go to the <a class="s3" href="index_000008.htm">Stairway Records page</a> to find out. </b></font></div>
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<b></b><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>What is a major outdoor public stairway?</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:normal;"> The simple answer is: It is a set of 100 or more stairs that are outside and open for public use. Go to the </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s3" href="index_000001.htm">Rules page</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:normal;"> for the complete criteria. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>Where can I find major outdoor public stairways?</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> Go to the </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Map page</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> and check out any of the stair maps. You are welcome to leave your comments about any of the stairways that you visit. Let us know what you think! </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>What do I do if I find a major outdoor public stairway that is not on a map?</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> Congratulations! You are a stair seeker! Go to the </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_000003.htm">Stair Documentation page</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> for information on how to add your stair information to this web site. Once your stair information is added to the maps you will become an honorary stair seeker and your name will be included on our </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_000004.htm">Stair Seeker page</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;">. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:14pt;"><b>WANTED</b></font><font style="font-size:12pt;"><b>:</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b> Volunteers to document known outdoor public stairways in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Berkeley, Mill Valley, and Sausalito, CA; Pittsburgh, PA; and Cincinnati, OH. Become a stair seeker! Contact Doug Beyerlein for more details.
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>The two stair finding contests are finished. Check out the winners on the <a class="s2" href="index_000009.htm">Contest page</a>. *** </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>Join our Keep Our Stairs Clean campaign.</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> See </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_00000d.htm">Clean Stairs page</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> for details. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>For a little history</b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> on how this whole idea got started read my </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_000005.htm">Seattle Stairs</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> article, originally published in the June 1999 issue of </font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="http://www.nwrunner.com/">Northwest Runner</a></b></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"> magazine. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>Now go out and enjoy some stairs! </b></font></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"></font><font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>Doug Beyerlein </b></font></div>
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<b>Record your best stair times and send them to <a class="s2" href="mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net">Doug Beyerlein</a> for inclusion on the <a class="s2" href="index_000013.htm">Stair Times page</a>. </b></div>
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<b>Doug Beyerlein, Seattle, Washington </b></div>
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<font style="font-size:11pt;"><b>Do you have a group or organization dedicated to protecting, preserving, and promoting stairways in your community? If so, send me your information and I will post on this web site on our new Stair Community page. Email your info to Doug Beyerlein at<a class="s1" href="mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net"> beyerlein@comcast.net</a>.
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<font style="font-size:8pt;">Disclaimer: Use all stairs at your own risk. Walking or running up or down stairs is inherently dangerous. The stair rise may be uneven and the stairs may be in poor condition. Be careful when ascending and descending. Make sure that you are in good health before attempting strenuous exercise. Also, some stairways do not have street lights and are not safe at night. If you feel uncomfortable due to the activities of others on or near a stairway use your best judgment and leave immediately. The staff at publicstairs.com is not responsible for the condition of the stairways reported on this web site nor any problems, accidents, or injuries that you may encounter while enjoying these sites even if previously advised of any known problems, accidents, or injuries. </font></div>
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<font style="font-size:10pt;"><b><a class="s2" href="index_index.htm">Home</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000007.htm">Stair Books</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00000f.htm">Twitter Updates</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000001.htm">Stair Counting Rules</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000017.htm">Stair Naming Conventions</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000002.htm">Stair Maps</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000008.htm">Stair Records</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00001b.htm">Stair Buttons</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000015.htm">Special Stairs</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000009.htm">Stair Contest</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00000e.htm">Stair Events</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00001a.htm">Stair Event Reports</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000003.htm">Stair Documentation</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000013.htm">Stair Times</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000018.htm">Stair Videos</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000016.htm">Stair Poetry</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00000a.htm">Stairway of the Month</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00000d.htm">Clean Stairs</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_00000c.htm">Who We Are</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000004.htm">Stair Seekers</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000005.htm">1999 Seattle Stairs Article</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000019.htm">2009 Seattle Stairs Article</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000006.htm">Stairway Surprises</a> ! <a class="s2" href="index_000011.htm">Extreme Stairways</a> !
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Welcome to PublicStairs.com, the web site devoted to the discovery and
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**Welcome to PublicStairs.com**, **the web site devoted to the discovery and documentation of major outdoor public stairways anywhere in the world. This web site is a labor of love brought to you by Doug and Joan Beyerlein of Mill Creek, Washington.**
**  Look for "Friends of Public Stairs".**
**"Outdoor public stairways are a window into the soul of a community." -- Doug Beyerlein, 2011**
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**At your fingertips:**
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**[1999 Article](index_000005.htm)**
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**11/23/2019: Stairways can be found in towns all along the Mississippi River. David Ryan brings us another in [Savanna, Illinois](index_000002.htm). This stairway and others will be included in an upcoming book David is writing on Mississippi River stairways. I can't wait to see the book.**
**11/22/2019: James Cho found the SE 24th Street Stairway in [Bellevue, Washington](index_000002.htm). With 165 stairs it leads onto the Bellevue College campus. You can get both your exercise and your education in one place. Thanks, James!**
**10/1/2019: The city of [Tacoma, Washington](index_000002.htm), has built a new stairway adjacent to Point Defiance Park that includes slides for quick downhill travel. Evan Howard first told me about the new Wilson Way Stairway. Now it is your turn to find it for yourself. The slide is optional.**
**9/18/2019: In the foothills of the Pyrenees is the town of [Puigcerda, Spain](index_000002.htm). In Puigcerda is a funicular railroad and adjacent to the rail line is a 227-stair stairway leading up to the town square. Bill and Heidi Cusworth discovered this beautiful stairway during their recent visits to Spain and France. Check it out for yourself and if you are there in April join the annual foot race up the stairway.**
**9/17/2019: Many of the beach towns along the California coast have great stairways leading down to the ocean. [Pismo Beach, California](index_000002.htm), is one of these towns. The stairway at the end of Wilmar Avenue, found by Mike Behlen, has 108 stairs. Need a better excuse to visit the beach?**
**7/26/2019: Bloomer Park in [Rochester, Michigan](index_000002.htm) has two major stairways hidden in the woods. Melanie Berent first told me about the stairway that she found and then while researching her stairway I found that David Garcia had found another in the same park. Now it is your turn to find them.**
**7/25/2019: [Duluth, Minnesota](index_000002.htm) has a long stairway at North 7th Avenue West. As Christian Huelsman discovered, it actually starts near the intersection of W 1st Ave and Mesaba Ave but has some street breaks before it gets serious at W 4th St. From W 4th St it is continuous until it reaches W 8th St. The stairs are a little rustic but well worth a visit if you are in Duluth.**
**7/24/2019: The city of [Trail, British Columbia](index-000002.htm), has an extensive system of public stairways (all of them covered against rain and snow). On September 28 United Way Trail and District will be hosting their annual "Storm the Stairs". This is a run/walk tour of many of Trail's stairways. For more info check out the [Storm the Stairs web site](http://uwtraildistrict.org/event/storm-the-stairs-2/). Even if you miss their stair event I highly recommend that you visit their stairways in you are in that part of British Columbia. They have at least eight major stairways that climb the hills west of the Columbia River. They are well worth a visit.**
**5/30/19: Recently Alana Bowman of [Wellington, New Zealand](index-000002.htm), told me about her website: [www.wellingtonsteps.com](http://www.wellingtonsteps.com). It is a wonderful stairway (or "steps" as they say in NZ) website filled with photos and facts about Wellington steps. I have added a map showing the locations of the steps in case you want to visit them. Even if you don't plan on going to New Zealand check out her website. You will be impressed.**
**2/12/2019: Before the winter snows arrived Steve Spaudie found a beautiful stairway in Rocky River Reservation, [North Olmsted, Ohio](index_000002.htm) (near Cleveland). The Fort Hill Stairs (156 stairs) can be found on the Fort Hill Loop Trail near the Nature Center.**
**11/1/2018: Here is another find by David Ryan when he visited the surprising town of [Columbus, Indiana](index_000002.htm) (not Ohio): Mill Race Park Observation Deck - 132 stairs and a great view of the town and the adjacent Flatrock River.**
**10/29/2018: For those of you who use my stair maps to find major public stairways you have probably seen the maps with the notation of For development purposes only and that the page cant load Google Maps correctly. After some discussion with CommunityWalk (the people who host the maps) we fixed the problem and the maps are now fully useable. I apologize for the inconvenience.**
**10/25/2018: WE ARE STILL HERE. Here is a link to a great article on the stairs of Pittsburgh published in the October 2018 issue of Southwest: The Magazine, written by Bill Fink. The article is titled [Stair Power](https://www.southwestmag.com/stair-power/?fbclid=IwAR2-g93J5ZIrlzXyXPhN-aeJS197SkPwiIPvpjJri-tGcdAVgnv6_zlVJ4Y).**
**5/29/2017: YES! We are still finding stairways - I am just very slow in adding them to this web site. Today we have two new stairways found by David Ryan: Tilghman Park Stairway (148 stairs) in [Chandler, OK](index_000002.htm), and the Cardiff Hill Stairway (232 stairs) in [Hannibal, MO](index_000002.htm). And I still have more to add when I can find the time.**
**11/10/2016: In 2015 David Ryan walked the Camino de Santiago from Saint Jean Pied-de-Port, France, to Santiago de Compostela, Spain. He wrote about his journey in his blog [The Gentle Art of Wandering](http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/). He included one post in his blog on the stairways that he encountered along the way. He found, documented, and photographed major stairways in [Saint Jean Pied-de-Port, France](index_000002.htm), [Obanos, Spain](index_000002.htm), and [Burgos, Spain](index_000002.htm). These are now on stair maps. Check them out or, better yet, go see them in person.**
**11/2/2016: Another David Ryan stairway find is in the city of [Minneapolis, MN](index_000002.htm). In his most recent trip he found two new stairways; on a previous trip in 2013 he found three stairways at Minneapolis's Minnehaha Falls Regional Park. Now they can all be found on the Minneapolis stair map.**
**11/1/2016: David Ryan and his dog Petey wander to many interesting places. David tells about his adventures in his blog [The Gentle Art of Wandering](http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/) (recommended reading). Recently David and Petey were in [Milwaukee, WI](index_000002.htm), and found four major stairways in that city. David even found one stairway by mistake without knowing it (I will let him tell the story).**
**10/31/2016: Earlier this year Jake and Cathy Jaramillo ventured to Spain where they found beautiful stairways in the cities of [Bilbao](index_000002.htm), [Getaria](index_000002.htm), and [San Sebastian](index_000002.htm). That sounds like a good reason to me to go to Spain.**
**9/19/2016: Tamsin Ramsay has been exploring British Columbia and has found the following major stairways: Hendryx Street Stairway (174 stairs) in [Nelson, BC](index_000002.htm); the Waterfall Trail Stairway (392 stairs) in [Fintry Provincial Park, BC](index_000002.htm); and the Coquitlam Crunch (437 stairs) in [Coquitlam, BC](index_000002.htm). That is a lot of stairs. Thanks, Tamsin!**
**9/18/2016: On the outskirts of [Saugatuck, MI](index_000002.htm), Mike Lapchick reports the finding of the Mt Baldhead Stairway (302 stairs). As the name implies, the stairs lead to the top of Mt Baldhead, overlooking Lake Michigan. This is the first major stairway to be found in Michigan. Nice work, Mike!**
**9/17/2016: Eric Jennings found the Powerline Trail Stairway (114 stairs) in [Redmond, WA](index_000002.htm); these stairs are almost right in my backyard and yet I had never seen them. It shows you that there are always more stairs to be found. Thanks, Eric!**
**8/3/2016: Sally Brodie has discovered two stairways in [New Zealand](index_000002.htm). The Mt Eden Steps (214 stairs) are in the city of Auckland. Further to the south in Whanganui are the Durie Hill Steps (191 stairs). What a good excuse to visit New Zealand!**
**8/2/2016: Mark Ewell has found three great stairways in Memphis, TN. They are across the street from Tom Lee Park and lead up the bluff to the Riverwalk. The north stairway has 59 stairs, the middle 73, and the south 84. Unfortunately, none of the three meet my minimum stair count requirement of 100 stairs. But if you are in Memphis they are still well worth a visit.**
**8/1/2016: Julian Michelucci (with assistance from Susan Stallard) has provided info on the Mori Point Stairway (208 stairs) in [Pacifica, CA](index_000002.htm). You can climb stairs and go whale watching all at the same place!**
**7/21/2016: Dan Gutierrez in his neverending search for public stairways has found a previously unknown stairway (131 stairs) in [South Pasadena, CA](index_000002.htm). Nice find, Dan!**
**7/20/2016:** **Judy Palidar found the Granite Falls Fishway Stairway (101 stairs) just outside of the town of [Granite Falls, WA](index_000002.htm). It leads down to the fish ladder on the South Fork of the Stillaguamish River. This is a pretty spot for a picnic even if stairs are not your thing.**
**7/19/2016: Sharon Galipeau found the Zimmerman Hill Stairway (232 stairs) in [Arlington, WA](index_000002.htm), and with directions from Judy Palidar I visited this new discovery. Very nice. Thank you both Sharon and Judy!**
**5/24/2016: In Cincinnat!.com is Sherry Coolridge's article ["City's outdoor stairways neglected, crumbling"](http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/24/citys-outdoor-stairways-neglected-crumbling/84766642/) about the poor condition of Cincinnati's stairways. It is a sorry situation in a city with many great stairways.**
**5/15/2016: Help save a stairway:**
**From Marcia Loney: Help save the Grand Staircase on the Eastern Oregon University campus in La Grande, Oregon. The price tag to save the Grand Staircase in La Grande is high and it is an uphill battle to obtain funding. Because the stairs are a pedestrian walkway we have applied for ConnectOregon funds through the Oregon Department of Transportation. Competition is stiff and we've been told that our case could be helped by letters of support. If you would like to write a letter of support for us it should/could focus on how public staircases not only provide pedestrian access, but can also improve the livability of a community as well as bring economic benefits (public events, tourism, etc.). The letter should be sent by May 20 to: Scott Turnoy, Interim ConnectOregon Manager, 555 13th Street NE, Suite 2, Salem, Oregon 97301. For more info: [https://www.facebook.com/savethegrandstaircase/.](http://www.facebook.com/savethegrandstaircase/)**
**5/10/2016: Check out this stair event in Tacoma, WA: Unleashed at Stadium Bowl is a fundraiser for Kindred Souls Foundation, an animal rescue founded in 2005. This August 7th will be the 6th annual race. They had nearly 400 participants last year, and expect to have over 600 this year. For more info: <http://www.unleashedatstadiumbowl.org/>.**
**4/28/2016: I found two new stairways in [Kirkland, WA](index_000002.htm); both start on the Cross Kirkland Corridor Trail. Check them out for yourself.**
**11/25/2015: Dan Gutierrez has provided additional stair information for two stairways in [Palos Verdes Estates, CA](index_000002.htm), and five stairways in [Rancho Palos Verdes, CA](index_000002.htm). Thanks, Dan, for all of these new stairway locations!**
**11/10/2015: Dan Gutierrez leads stair walks in the Greater LA area (for more info see his Facebook posts). Recently he found the Rattlesnake Spillway Stairway (273 stairs) in [Rancho Palos Verde, CA](index_000002.htm). That is a lot of stairs!**
**11/7/2015: Nicole Sanders discovered the Mesa Lane Steps (241 stairs) in [Santa Barbara, CA](index_000002.htm), and provided info and photos on the "Friends of Public Stairs" page on Facebook. Thanks, Nicole!**
**11/6/2015: [Brookline, MA](index_000002.htm), a suburb of Boston, has four major stairways. They are described in Linda Olson Pehlke's book [Exploring the Paths of Brookline](index_000007.htm). I explored them all last April, a few days after running the Boston Marathon. I am not sure which was more difficult: stairs or marathon. Find out for yourself.**
**10/31/2015: The Kinnear Park Stairway is located on Queen Anne Hill in [Seattle, WA](index_000002.htm). Michael Yadrick found this stairway in 2014 but it took me until now to count the number of stairs (125) and photograph the stairway.**
**10/31/2015: Bob Regan's new book [Pittsburgh Steps: The Story of the City's Public Stairways](index_000007.htm), is now available. This new book is an update of Bob's original Pittsburgh stair book: The Steps of Pittsburgh, which is now out of print. This new book includes new stair information and new photos of many of Pittsburgh's most noted stairways plus eight neighborhood walking tours. For more info go to our [Books](index_000007.htm) page.**
**10/31/2015: This past summer while in Dover, England, waiting for good weather for my wife Joan to swim the English Channel, we explored the local neighborhoods for stairways. We found three major stairways in [Dover](index_000002.htm) and one in nearby [Folkestone](index_000002.htm). There are probably more. Let me know if you find one.**
**10/23/2015: We are back with new stair info after a virus attack last March.**
**3/2/2015: Just above the shores of Lake Taneycomo in [Branson, MO](index_000002.htm), are the 338 Stone Steps, located in the Lakeside Forest Wilderness Area. Originally built in 1938, Shannon Cochran recently brought these stairs to my attention. Nice job, Shannon!**
**2/27/2015: In [San Clemente, CA](index_000002.htm), are three major stairways that lead from the residential neighborhoods down to the San Clemente Beach Trail and the Pacific Ocean. Jake and Cathy Jaramillo discovered these stairways on one of their many trips. Great find!**
**2/11/2015: Just outside of Denver, near the town of [Morrison, CO](index_000002.htm), is the Red Rocks Amphitheatre. It is best known for its concerts, but on non-concert days it is open to the public for stair climbing. According to Leslie Handmaker, from the bottom to the top there are 388 stairs. That is a good workout, especially at altitude. Thanks, Leslie!**
**2/10/2015: Who knew that [Edmonton, Alberta](index_000002.htm), has stairs? Patricia Hildebrandt knew and following her lead I discovered that there are over 100 stairways in and near Edmonton. I found detailed info on eight major stairways (the longest being 261 stairs) and they are shown on the Edmonton stairs map. But if you are in Edmonton I still need information on the remaining undocumented stairs.**
**2/4/2015: Robert Inman has just updated his [Inman 300 Guidebook](https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=BFCD91346C0233FC!5797&ithint=file%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AK-f4xy6m6mge-Y). The guidebook describes in detail the 218-mile, 345-stairway (with a total of 26,059 stairs) urban thru-hike of Los Angeles designed by himself, Andrew Lichtman, and Ying Chen. Kelley Wiley Lane of Seattle recently walked the entire Inman 300 between January 4 and 15 of this new year. You can read about her adventure on her blog [http://adventuresbyfoot.blogspot.com](http://adventuresbyfoot.blogspot.com/2015/01/sunday-afternoon-stroll-on-inman-300.html). Now it is your turn to get outside and have an adventure on the stairs in your neighborhood. Tell us what you find.**
**2/3/2015: Robert Inman has found three major stairways in the Montclair District of [Oakland, CA](index_000002.htm). The longest one has 267 stairs. Great find, Robert!**
**2/1/2015: Here is another 1000 Steps (actually 1043 stairs) in [Huntingdon County, PA](index_000002.htm). This 1000 Steps climbs to the top of Jacks Mountain. That sounds like a good workout.**
**1/31/2015: Just like there are multiple Jacob's Ladders (see below) there are multiple stairways locally named "1000 Steps". This new find is in [Laguna Beach, CA](index_000002.htm). This 1000 Steps is actually 228 stairs, but the locals say that when climbing them they feel like 1000.**
**1/30/2015: More stairs in Australia: In the [Dandenong Ranges National Park, Victoria](index_000002.htm) (near Melbourne) is the 1000 Steps (actually 996 stairs) up through Fern Tree Gully.**
**1/29/2015: It turns out there is more than one Jacob's Ladder. This new one is in [Perth, Western Australia](index_000002.htm), and has 242 stairs. Its story is told at [lifeonperth.com/jacobsladder.htm](http://www.lifeonperth.com/jacobsladder.htm). Perth has a second major outdoor public stairway in nearby Kings Park. This is the Kokoda Walk Stairway wtih 150 stairs. Both can be found on the Stair Maps page. Enjoy.**
**1/28/2015: [Jacob's Ladder](index_000002.htm) is a stairway in Jamestown on the island of Saint Helena in the South Atlantic Ocean, but it is not just any outdoor public stairway. It goes straight up Ladder Hill: no landings, just 699 stairs with a constant 11-inch run and an 11-inch rise. That makes for a 100% grade or slope.**
**The ascent record is 5 minutes, 16.78 seconds by Graham Doig. He went up using all fours (both hands and feet** **on the stairs). There is a lot more information about Jacob's Ladder and Saint Helena Island at [sainthelenaisland.info/jacobsladder.htm](http://www.sainthelenaisland.info/jacobsladder.htm). Check it out.**
**1/27/2015: This isn't the best time of year to be visiting stairways in Minnesota, but when the snow melts take a drive to [Split Rock State Park](index_000002.htm) on the shores of Lake Superior and visit the 174-stair stairway found by Susan Ralph on one of her many travels. Thanks, Susan!**
**1/23/2015: [Hollister, Missouri](index_000002.htm), has the Cedar Steps (229 stairs), found by Shannon Cochran. Nice find, Shannon!**
**1/20/2015: New stairways recently discovered by Stair Seekers include: Hillside Lane Stairway (134 stairs) in [Whittier, CA](index_000002.htm), by Robert Inman; Majestic Park Stairs (106 stairs) in [Las Vegas, NV](index_000002.htm), by Ron Purewal; three stairways in Pat Hurley Park (longest is 157 stairs) in [Albuquerque, NM](index_000002.htm), by David Ryan; and Steep Canyon Stairway (110 stairs) in [Diamond Bar, CA](index_000002.htm), by Alex Rose. Thank you all.**
**1/2/2015: 2014 brought us another new stair book to add to the list in the [Books](index_000007.htm) section of this web site. This new book that came out in the late summer (and that I should have mentioned at that time) is David Ryan's "The Bisbee Stairs: Exploring the Stairways, Trails, and Hidden Corners of Bisbee, Arizona". This slim volume of 97 pages is packed with information about the stairs, their history, and the sorts of things that you will see as you climb their wandering pathways. I had hoped to add all of David Ryan's discoveries to my Bisbee stair map prior to announcing the book, but I now realize that that would just further delay my getting this announcement to you. Even if you never plan on going to Bisbee - READ THIS BOOK. You just may change your mind.**
**1/1/2015: Make your New Year's resolution to be to climb more stairs. Mine is to update this web site more often. When you see gaps in dates or a long period of inactivity it doesn't mean that I have lost interest; it means that work and other activities are taking up all of my time. However, I am still collecting stair information. I just need more time to put it on the stair maps.**
**8/8/2014: [www.Healthunlocked.com/stepjockey](http://www.healthunlocked.com/stepjockey) is a new stair climbing community that was launched today.** **It's a completely open space for people to share advice and tips. Join for free and share your stair stories. This is the place to****help spread the word about how great stairs are for health and wellbeing.**
**6/10/2014: There is an article today in the [Wall Street Journal](http://online.wsj.com/articles/in-pittsburgh-residents-are-divided-on-what-to-do-about-famous-staircases-1402366559) about the stairways of Pittsburgh, including a brief mention of this web site. The citizens of Pittsburgh need to unite to save their stairs! Read the article for more information.**
**6/2/2014: The** **[Seattle Stairway Solstice Foot Tour](http://www.facebook.com/events/118354745001844/?ref=29&ref_notif_type=plan_mall_activity&source=1) will be held on** **Saturday, June 21, 5:00 am to 10:00 pm. The event is organized by** **Michael Yadrick. This urban run/hike adventure will take place on one of the longest days of the year in order to traverse Seattle's public stairways safely in one day. While the public stairways are an incredible asset for Seattle as well as targets to navigate towards, the endeavor will also highlight all the Emerald City has to offer: gorgeous views, natural areas, elevation change, gritty littered streets, tree-lined boulevards, cafes, etc. It will be long and no one has attempted it before. Preliminary survey of the route looks to be 60+ miles, 9,000 feet of elevation change, and 15,000 stairs to traverse. It will be epic whether you choose to join in all or a portion of the stairways. The start is at 5:12 AM at SW 98th St Stairway, south of Brace Point and the Fauntleroy Ferry dock and the finish is at 10:00 PM at summit of Queen Anne Hill, corner of Warren and Lee. Come and do all or part. More info and route maps at Facebook page "Seattle Stairway Solstice Foot Tour".**
**5/21/2014: Two more major stairways (and some interesting additional minor ones) have been found by David Ryan in [Miami, Arizona](index_000002.htm), while on his many wanderings. Good find, David!**
**5/13/2014: The City of [Wallace, Idaho](index_000002.htm), has produced the "South Hill Stairs" map showing the locations of public stairways near the downtown, including the number of stairs. I have updated my stair map of Wallace and added the 4th Street Stairs (147 stairs).**
**5/12/2014: There are stairs on the Oregon Trail (or close to it) in [Pendleton, Oregon](index_000002.htm). Jake and Cathy Jaramillo found the 113-stair Isaac Avenue Stairway on their recent travels.**
**5/9/2014: Pat Morley found a gold mine of stairways in [Ketchikan, Alaska](index_000002.htm), last summer. Explore the Alaskan wilderness without leaving town.**
**5/1/2014: Howard Petersen recounted the number of stairs on [Murphy Ranch West Stairway](index_000002.htm) in Los Angeles' Rustic Canyon. The correct total is 454 stairs (I originally received a report of 321 stairs). Howard reports that there are 413 stairs on the major section plus another 41 above a small dirt plateau (where there is a water tank) before finally reaching the Sullivan Fire Road. Thanks for the update, Howard!**
**4/14/2014: The Spanish Steps in [Rome, Italy](index_000002.htm), were featured on the 4/13/2014 episode of the CBS television reality show, The Amazing Race. The contestants had to count the number of stairs (135)!**
**1/23/2014: In [Wheeling, West Virginia](index_000002.htm), Martin Wach and Urban Agroforestry have worked with the local community to restore and maintain two beautiful and long stairways on Vineyard Hill. This newly reforested area was the site of a 31-acre vineyard operated by the Catholic Church in the late 1800s. There are great views of Wheeling and the Ohio Valley from the top. Visit Wheeling and see for yourself.**
**1/21/2014: Jake Jaramillo reports: "Two exciting stairway events coming soon in Seattle! Feb. 8th is the second annual Stairway Walks Day, when 18 routes from our book will be walked simultaneously by 450 people. Then April 26th, during Earth Week, we're launching another citywide event, "Stairway Spring Cleaning Day." With these two linked events, we hope to help elevate awareness of our historic stairway legacy and build stairway culture. We think that'll make it likelier our stairway network will get a fair share of city money for maintenance and enhancements." For more information contact Jake at [jakejaramillo@comcast.net](mailto:jakejaramillo@comcast.net).**
**1/12/2014: More Minnesota stairs from David Ryan and myself in [St Paul, MN](index_000002.htm). Now if it would only warm up so that people could visit them without needing a toboggan**.
**1/11/2014: Add [Red Wing, MN](index_000002.htm), to David Ryan's list of stairway cities found in 2013. Nice job, David.**
**1/10/2014: [Stillwater, MN](index_000002.htm), stairways were explored by David Ryan in the spring of 2013. He found 3 major stairways, ranging in stairs from 120 (Chestnut Stairway) to 157 (Main Street Stairway) plus a nice town on the banks of the St Croix River.**
**1/9/2014: Another David Ryan find: [Lynchburg, VA](index_000002.htm), stairways and a lot of history. See for yourself.**
**1/8/2014: From Quito, Ecuador comes the following news:**
**"****My name is Mateo Muñoz, from Quito-Ecuador, Im an employee at the** **Metropolitan Institute of Patrimony****, a part of the Municipality of Quito, its the institution in charge of restoring, maintaining and revitalizing the tangible patrimony of the city as well as the intangible, cultural heritage of the district. We are currently undertaking a project of revitalizing the public stairways of the historical center of the city, it has an axis of participation from the neighbors as a means for political organization for each sector of the old downtown and as a guarantee that they will maintain themselves as public spaces of quality and occupied by activity and community. We might see great art on some of them, theatre on others, any means of culture reflectiveness and apropiation that can flourish. The products of the project will begin to happen on one to two months. I'll be happy to share this information with you, only in the historial center and surrounding areas we have more than 170 public stairways, adding the whole city we easily surpass the 200." Who wants to go to Quito and check out these stairways? Contact Mateo at [mateo28488@hotmail.com](mailto:mateo28488@hotmail.com) for more information.**
**1/7/2014: Want to know how many calories you are burning while climbing stairs? Check out the [StepJockey](https://www.stepjockey.com/) web site. It allows you to add your favorite stair workout location (either outdoors or indoors) to their StepJockey stair map and locate other stair workout locations.**
**1/6/2014: Caroline Overcash leads a group of stair climbing adventurers in the Carolinas. Before winter set in they hiked/climbed the 336-stair Backside Trail Stairway in [Crowders Mountain State Park, NC](index_000002.htm), near Gastonia. Check it out for yourself (but wait until it warms up a bit).**
**1/5/2014: David Ryan continues to find more stairways: this time on the grounds of the Tennessee State Capitol in [Nashville](index-000002.htm).**
**1/4/2014: If you are into the Seattle stair scene check out Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's [SeattleStairwaysWalks.com](http://www.seattlestairwaywalks.com/) for all of the latest news and info.**
**1/3/2014: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! I had a computer crash last autumn and was too busy to find all of my web site files and update this site. I hope to do better in the coming year**.
**8/14/2013:** **PJ Glassey will lead interested stair climbers up and down the Howe Street Stairway in Seattle (the 4th longest outdoor stairway in the USA) on 8/24/13 at 8:30 am. Climbers will learn valuable techniques on stair climbing ranging from how to maximize the workout, to reducing muscle soreness, and everything in between. This is all part of** **Lifewise Health Plan** **of Washington's new fitness inspiration program through** **Actively Northwest****, using #FitMob as the signal to their customers to get active and get fit. You're invited too! There is no requirement that you be a Lifewise customer either. It's highly advised to go** **[xgym.com/stairs](http://xgym.com)** **and check out the great info there to brief yourself beforehand so you show up informed and ready to go!**
**8/6/2013: David Ryan's many stair finds include [Dubuque, IA](index_000002.htm), with two major stairways (not including two other abandoned stairways) and many other minor ones.**
**8/5/2013: David Ryan's many wanderings (entertainingly described in his "[The Gentle Art of Wandering](http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/)" blog) includes finding three major stairways in [Galena, IL](index_000002.htm) (a fourth stairway is closed). More info on his stairway finds in other cities and towns to come.**
**8/4/2013: I did a recount of the Dipsea stairs in [Mill Valley, CA](index_000002.htm), in May and found that the lower stairway now has 316 stairs (up from 313). I did a similar count of Gil's Stairs in [Hood River, OR](index_000002.htm), in July and found that they had also increased by 3 (from 413 to 416). Is the Earth expanding?**
**8/3/2013: There has been a long break in the update of the stair info on this web site due to a number of factors: the largest (and most time consuming) factor being the addition of two Alaskan malamute puppies to our family in February. We are now down to one (a male, named Tuolumne). You can see his photo on the [Who We Are](index_00000c.htm) page. Life is slowly returning to a new normal.**
**1/16/2013: If you find climbing stairs the conventional way not challenging enough then try climbing them on a unicycle like Terry Peterson does in his "[Extreme Unicycling](index_000018.htm)" video.**
**1/8/2013: Tomorrow (Wednesday, 1/9/2013) is "Take the Stairs" Day, courtesy of [stairsport.com](http://stairsport.com). But let's make every day "Take the Stairs" Day starting now!**
**1/7/2013: Iceland has stairs! Susan Ott Ralph found them last summer when she and her husband visited [Skogafoss, Iceland](index_000002.htm). The 380-Skogafoss stairs climb to the top of the Skogafoss waterfall. Nice climb!**
**1/6/2013: Lucas Boyle has produced an entertaining video of his (and two friends) travels up and down the many West Seattle stairways - all in a single day and with bicycles! Go to the [video page](index_000018.htm) to view his video.**
**1/5/2013: If you want to visit Thai stairways check out the Wat Tham Suea Stairway just outside of [Krabi, Thailand](index_000002.htm), on the Andaman Coast. Wat Tham Suea (Tiger Cave Temple) Stairway has 1237 stairs and gains over 1000 feet. [LonelyPlanet.com](http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thailand/andaman-coast/wat-tham-seua) provides a good description of Wat Tham Suea and the stairway. There is also an excellent [video](index_000018.htm) of the stairway produced by Dornz Arrummy Rojvithee. Info on the Wat Tham Suea Stairway was provided to me by Vern Lovic (Vern's web site is [GoUpIt.com](http://www.goupit.com)) and John Stockton. Thank you both!**
**1/4/2013: Susan Ott Ralph reports that the Ferdinand-53rd Stairway in Seattle has been rebuilt by the City of Seattle and looks much nicer than the old stairway, although 9 stairs were lost in the process. New info and photos are found on the [Seattle](index_000002.htm) map. Thanks, Susan!**
**1/3/2013: For Seattle stair walkers circle Saturday, February 9, on your calendar for Stairway Walks Day, sponsored by Feet First promoting walkable communities. On that Saturday there will be 15 organized walks, featuring stairway walks described in Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's new book, "Seattle Stairway Walks". Go to [feetfirst.org](http://feetfirst.org/events/stairway-walks-day) for more info.**
**Jake and Cathy Jaramillo's new book, "[Seattle Stairway Walks](index_000007.htm)" is now available in bookstores from The Mountaineers Books. This is a great little pocket guide to stairways through the Seattle metropolitan area. It even includes QR codes.**
**1/2/2013: Robert Skip Sandberg has published the second edition of his book "[Steps, Lanes and Paths of Mill Valley](index_000007.htm)". This new edition contains more beautiful photos of Mill Valley, California, stairways and one new stairway not included in the first edition.**
**1/1/2013: In the spring of 2012 Bob Inman,** **Andrew Lichtman, and Ying Chen undertook an epic journey to walk 300 public stairways scattered across the Los Angeles basin in ten days. Their book "[The 300: The Way of the Stairs Across Los Angeles](index_000007.htm)" is the story of their journey. More info about their travels can be found on their web site [300LAStairways.com](http://www.300lastairways.com/).**
**12/18/2012: The gap in adding new info on this page is not due to a lack of interest or material, but only due to a lack of time on my part. I hope to find some time in the next few days to get caught up. That said, I recently joined Incline Friends, a group working to make the Manitou Incline in Colorado officially open to public access. Manitou Incline is one of the longest, steepest rural stairways in the country. You can get more info at <http://inclinefriends.ning.com/>.**
**9/8/2012: Florida is the flattest state in the United States. Does it have any major outdoor public stairways? I didn't think so, but thanks to Liz Newman the answer is YES! The [University of Florida Gator Stadium](index_000002.htm) in Gainesville is open to public use of its stairs. Check them out!**
**8/23/2012: Shaun Hoffman has found another [Happy Valley, OR](index_000002.htm), stairway: 147th Ave Stairway with 113 stairs. Keep it up, Shaun!**
**8/22/2012: David Ryan in his wanderings has found another stairway, just east of St. Louis. This is the 156-stair Monks Mound Stairway leading to the top of Monks Mound in Cahokia State Park in [Collinsville, IL](index_000002.htm). This stairway leads to the top of the large complex of Indian mounds found in the United States. Thanks, David!**
**8/21/2012: For years I have heard rumors of a giant stairway in the hills southeast of Portland, Oregon, but I never had a specific location. Shaun Hoffman of Happy Valley, OR, may have found it with his discovery of the 442-stair Hilltop Stairway in [Happy Valley, Oregon](index_000002.htm). It looks like quite a climb! Great find, Shaun!**
**8/20/2012: The SFGate.com article (see below) includes the 139-stair Arch Stairway (aka Larkspur Steps) in [Larkspur, CA](index_000002.htm).**
**8/19/2012: The San Francisco Chronicle web site SFGate.com has a good article on San Francisco Bay Area stairways: "[Staircases: step in right direction](http://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/article/Staircases-step-in-right-direction-3794299.php)".**
**8/10/2012: Julian Michelucci has a great web site [Stairways Are Freedom](http://stairwayfreedom.com/) where he documents the many stairways that he explores in the San Francisco Bay Area. One of his recent finds is the 119-stair Seal Point Park Stairway in [San Mateo, CA](index_000002.htm). Thanks for the info, Julian!**
**7/25/2012: If you are looking for great ocean views try the 218-stair Point Vicente Stairway in [Rancho Palos Verdes, CA](index_000002.htm); info courtesy of Jacques Monier.**
**7/24/2012: Naomi Goehle has found a beautiful 105-stair stairway leading up to the Jackson County Courthouse (now the Jackson County Library) in [Sylva, North Carolina](index_000002.htm).**
**7/23/2012: David Ryan finds another stairway in [New York City](index_000002.htm). The W 155th Stairway is in Manhattan and is a short walk from the old Polo Grounds, where more stairs can be found. Check for yourself.**
**7/16/2012: Nice article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette about a community group, Community Steps Cooperative, headed by M.J. Flott and Alex Lake, that is working to preserve and maintain Pittsburgh's public stairways.**
**7/6/2012: John Smiley has written "[The Complete Book of Stair Climbing, 2012 Edition](http://www.johnsmiley.com/main/stairs.htm)". I have not read the book, but it looks like a good book for competitive stair racers. John donates $1 of each book sale to American Lung Association.**
**6/22/2012: [Port Angeles, Washington](index_000002.htm), is just across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Victoria, BC. Jacques Monier says that from the top of Port Angeles's 106-stair Laurel Street Stairs you can see all of the way to Canada. Go take a peek at the view!**
**6/20/2012: [Quebec City](index_000002.htm) has escalier (stairways). Cap-Blanc Stairs are the longest with 398 stairs, according to [quebecregion.com](http://www.quebecregion.com/en/quebec-city-and-area/stairways?a=vis). Check them out for yourself.**
**6/19/2012: You can find stairways in the far north of Canada in [Prince Rupert, British Columbia](index_000002.htm), thanks to Jacques Monier.**
**6/15/2012: Jake Jaramillo reports that the City of [Seattle](index_000002.htm) Department of Transportation has rebuilt the Spokane-61st Stairway and it now has more than 100 stairs (109, to be exact). Thanks, Jake.**
**6****/10/2012: We now have stairs in [Oakland, California](index_000002.htm), courtesy of Dan Schulman of Oakland Urban Paths.**
**6/9/2012: Another good article about stairs is on the[Governing.com](http://www.governing.com/blogs/by-the-numbers/longest-public-stairways-in-us-cities.html) blog site.**
**6/8/2012: Who knew that [Harpers Ferry, West Virginia](index_000002.htm), has stairs? David Ryan did, and he provides us with the first major public outdoor stairway in the state of West Virginia. Thanks, David!**
**6/7/2012: Excellent newspaper article about Cincinnati stairways by Steven Rosen in today's [Cincinnati Enquirer](http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120607/LIFE07/306070028/Queen-City-stairs?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s). It is great to see renewed interest in preserving and promoting Cincinnati's historic stairways.**
**6/1/2012: If you like tea at the top of your stairs check out this teahouse in China: [Teahouse at the Southern Peak](http://www.uqpu.net/teahouse/).**
**5/30/2012: David Ryan, author of the book "The Gentle Art of Wandering" (see 3/19/2012 entry below) provides us with info and photos of unique stairways in [Ohio (Miamisburg Indian Mound stairs](index_000002.htm)) and [Georgia (Amicalola Falls State Park staircases](index_000002.htm)). Check them out!**
**5/29/2012: Scott Stanley reports that [Austin, Texas](index_000002.htm), has stairs. The best are at Mount Bonnell and include a great view of the city.**
**5/8/2012: How many steps does it take to climb to the moon? To find out and to participate in the 2012 Climb to the Moon go to [moonclimb.com](http://moonclimb.com/).**
**5/6/2012: Richmond Beach Park in [Shoreline, Washington](index_000002.htm), (just north of Seattle) has both beach access to Puget Sound and a major stairway with 199 stairs. Great views from the top.**
**4/7/2012: If you like walking not only up stairs, but also on other types of terrain then check out Patricia Jewett's new web site: [All Things Walking](http://www.allthingswalking.com/index.html).**
**4/3/2012: I found this photo on the "Stair race training buds" Facebook page:**
**We should advocate for these symbols on all public stairways where there is a choice.**
**3/20/2012: There are two major types of stair books: guides to neighborhoods (e.g., Charles Flemings Secret Stairs books) and photographic essays (Robert Sandbergs Steps, Lanes, and Paths of Mill Valley). David Ryans new book [The Gentle Art of Wandering](index_000007.htm) is a third stair path: the philosophy of using stairways to wander or explore. Ryan uses stairways (and other transportation venues) to explore the big and the little that surrounds all of us, but is often invisible to our busy lives. In Chapter 4 Ryan describes his wandering the hills and stairways of Los Angeles and the discoveries he makes in the process. He describes his process of seeing and connecting with the environment, whether it is urban, rural, or wilderness. This is an important book to read. For more info go to the [book page](index_000007.htm).**
**3/19/2012: David Ryan (author of ["The Gentle Art of Wandering"](http://www.gentleartofwandering.com/)) wandered into the old mining town of Miami, Arizona, and discovered the Keystone Stairs (155 stairs). The town of Miami holds an annual stairclimb every April. See the stairs on the [Miami, AZ, stairs map](index_000002.htm).**
**3/12/2012: If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area check out the [Oakland Urban Paths](http://www.oaklandurbanpaths.org) group which is regularly featured in the blog [Our Oakland](http://blog.ouroakland.net/2012/03/oakland-urban-paths-oakmore-highlands.html). They know all of the local Oakland area stairways and a lot more. Looks like a fun group.**
**3/11/2012: While running along Lake Washington in Seattle I ran past the newly rebuilt Jackson Stairway. The number of stairs has been reduced from 140 to 135, but the new stairway is very nice. Check it out if you are in the neighborhood.**
**3/9/2012: Randy Wilson reports the discovery of the Birch Stairway in Camas, Washington (near Portland, Oregon). The stairway is located at the end of Birch Street between NE 7th Ave and NE 12th Ave. Unfortunately, it has only 94 stairs and does not meet the 100-stair minimum requirement to be included on the stair map. But it is still worth a visit if you are in the neighborhood.**
**3/8/2012: The lack of news is purely a function of my busy work schedule. If you have new stair information please let me know.**
**11/14/2011:**
**An eco-friendly urban exercise area concept by Michael Jantzen is a series of stairways that can be built anywhere (hills optional). More info in [GreenMuze](http://www.greenmuze.com/build/design/4281-eco-friendly-urban-exercise-area.html).**
**11/3/2011: While photographing Seattle's Discovery Park South Bluff and Hidden Valley stairways I found the [North Bluff Stairway](index_000002.htm) (201 stairs); also another Seattle downtown stairway (Lower Market Stairway with 110 stairs).**
**10/22/2011: For those of you who like stair running/racing take a look at Trevor Folgering's new web site [StairClimbCanada.com](http://www.stairclimbcanada.com).**
**10/6/2011: The small mining town of Wallace, Idaho, is rediscovering its stair heritage. You can see their two major stairways (7th Street Stairs: 154 stairs; 6th Street Stairs: 211 stairs) on the [Wallace map](index_000002.htm) and a [video of their stairs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWA83bVIfIo&feature=related), produced by Randy Knight. They have a lot of work to do to rebuild their historical wood stairways. If you would like to contribute send your tax deductible donation to the City of Wallace, City Clerk, 703 Cedar St, Wallace, ID 83873.**
**10/5/2011: I discovered two trail stairways in Seattle's Discovery Park: South Bluff Stairway (216 stairs) and Hidden Valley Stairway (108 stairs). Find them on the [Seattle map](index_000002.htm).**
**9/22/2011: Just outside of Chicago are the Swallow Cliff stairs (126 stairs) in the Swallow Cliff Forest Preserve in [Cook County, IL](index_000002.htm). Check out this [video of the stairs](http://youtu.be/skNr8Mv2hkM).**
**9/20/2011: We now have a new longest concrete stairway in the United States: [Murphy Ranch East Stairway](index_000002.htm) (512 stairs!) in Los Angeles. Dave Ptach counted the stairs. Good work, Dave!**
**9/16/2011: If you want a real challenge try the Spitzhaus Stairway (397 stairs) near [Radebeul, Germany](index_000002.htm). This is the site of the annual [Sachsischer Mt Everest Treppenmarathon (Saxon Mt Everest Marathon stair race).](http://www.treppenlauf.de/)**
**9/14/2011: Stairway found on Mt Baldy (215 stairs) in [Wimberley, Texas](index_000002.htm).**
**9/13/2011: Bob Inman visited the Manayuk neighborhood of [Philadelphia](index_000002.htm) and found seven major stairways. Take a look.**
**8/9/2011: [Bellevue, Washington](index_000002.htm), has a stairway in Kelsey Creek Park. Check it out!**
**7/8/2011: [Zach Behrens of KCET Los Angeles](http://www.kcet.org/socal/socal_wanderer/outdoors/secret-stairs-los-angeles-video.html) blogs and videos about walking the "Secret Stairs" of Los Angeles. Check out the video and meet author Charles Fleming.**
**7/7/2011: With the help of Laura O. Foster's book "Portland City Walks" I recently found and documented two stairways in [Oregon City, Oregon](index_000002.htm). The McLoughlin House Stairway (215 stairs) starts in a tunnel under railroad track on the edge of downtown Oregon City.**
**7/6/2011: While on my Mill Valley visit I found two stairways in neighboring [Sausalito, CA](index_000002.htm). There are more in Sausalito to be found.**
**6/29/2011: I recently returned from a week in [Mill Valley, California](index_000002.htm) where I found 21 major stairways plus did a recount of the famous Dipsea stairs (new total 686). To help find the stairways I used the City of Mill Valley map "[A Guide to Mill Valley Steps, Lanes, Paths](index_000007.htm)" and the new book "[Steps, Lanes, and Paths of Mill Valley](index_000007.htm)" by Robert Skip Sandberg. There are still more Mill Valley stairways to be found.**
**5/14/2011: Based on information provided by Steve Rock and Rick McMichael I found the 290-stair Eagle Landing Park Stairway in [Burien, WA](index_000002.htm). It leads down to the beach on Puget Sound.**
**4/26/2011: While in the San Francisco Bay Area I discovered this 105-stair Foothill College stairway in [Los Altos Hills, CA](index_000002.htm). This is the only major outdoor stairway that I know of on the San Francisco Peninsula.**
**4/16/2011: Another [Seattle Times article about stairs](index_00001c.htm). This one was written and sketched by Gabriel Campanario, Seattle Times news artist.**
**4/2/2011: Premera has donated a giant box of "****I TAKE THE STAIRS****" buttons, so I have lots and lots of buttons if you and your stair friends want some. Go to the [buttons page](index_00001b.htm) for more details.**
**3/20/2011: Discovered another stairway (100-stair [Lincoln Park North Stairway](index_000002.htm)) in Seattle. Seattle is now tied with San Francisco for third place for the city with the most number of major public outdoor stairways.**
**3/1/2011: Ted Smith and family has found the first documented major public outdoor stairway in [Richmond, VA](index_000002.htm). Check out the 157-stair Libby Hill Stairway. Thanks, Ted!**
**2/27/2011: I am changing my stairs email address to [beyerlein@comcast.net](mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net) because of problems with my business email address. Please use this new email address until further notice. - Doug Beyerlein**
**2/25/2011: Read in the [Seattle Times](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014325366_stairs25m.html) an excellent article about Susan Ott Ralph quest to find all of the public stairways in Seattle. And see some of the stairways tonight (7 PM) at her slide show at the Montlake Community Center in Seattle.**
**2/22/2011: Linda Nicholas has provided info and photos of the 245-stair [Lang Trail Stairway](index_000002.htm) in Peachland, British Columbia. Thanks, Linda!**
**2/14/2011: I received more "****I TAKE THE STAIRS****" buttons from Premera LifeWise Health Plan of Washington, courtesy of Kelly Jones. I will mail you free buttons if you email me your postal address and the number of buttons that you want (you don't have to live in Washington state to participate). All that I ask in return is that you send me a digital photo of each person who gets a button. I will put the photos on the new ["I Take the Stairs Button" page](index_00001b.htm). Check it out!**
**2/7/2011: The first Hawaiian stairway has been found! Check out the [Koko Crater Railway Trail Stairway](index_000002.htm) with 1207 stairs! And this is not the longest stairway in Hawaii. The Haiku Stairs are 3922 stairs long, but currently access to them is closed to the public. We hope that changes soon.**
**2/1/2011: Susan Ott Ralph continues to find [Seattle stairways](index_000002.htm). She has found five previously undocumented major stairways: #74 Raye (106 stairs), #75 Crescent (103), # 76 Madrona Park (100), #77 Horton (100), and #78 Highland (112). Excellent work, Susan! And remember her talk on 2/25.**
**1/31/2011: Portland, Oregon, stair walkers should put on their calendar the Heartbreaker Walk on 2/12. This 5K and 10K walk visits many of NW Portland's hidden and not-so-hidden stairways and is organized by the Columbia River Volksports Club. More info available at [www.walking4fun.org](http://www.walking4fun.org).**
**1/20/2011: Susan Ott Ralph will be giving a** **talk on Seattle Stairs on Friday, February 25, 7:00 PM, at the Montlake Community Center, 1618 E Calhoun St, Seattle.** **She will briefly describe 29 walks that feature the best stairs. She will show some of her photographs of the different styles of stairs in Seattle and her candidates for some categories of stairs: highest, longest, most beautiful, most obscure, best view, most urban, least urban, oldest, most artistic, and the ones that capture the essense of Seattle. Put this event on your calendar!**
**1/19/2011: Colleen Neff, president of the Berkeley Path Wanderers, has provided photos of the [Berkeley stairways](index_000002.htm) plus information on Poppy Path Stairway (193 stairs). Thanks, Colleen!**
**1/12/2011: Fred Beyerlein (no relation) of Longboat Key, FL, has provided info about The Approach, the 147-stair entrance to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in Troy, NY. See [Troy, NY stair map](index_000002.htm) for photos and more details. Thanks, Fred!**
**1/1/2011:** **New Year's Resolution: Let's make 2011 the "Year of the Stairs".** **To help promote stair useage LifeWise Health Plan of Washington is giving out free** **"I TAKE THE STAIRS"** **buttons. I will mail you free buttons if you email me your postal address and the number of buttons that you want (you don't have to live in Washington state to participate). All that I ask in return is that you send me a digital photo of each person who gets a button. I will put the photos on the new ["I Take the Stairs Button" page](index_00001b.htm). Check it out!**
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**What U.S. city has the greatest number of documented major outdoor stairways? Which city has the longest (most number of stairs) stairway? Go to the [Stairway Records page](index_000008.htm) to find out.**
**What is a major outdoor public stairway?** The simple answer is: It is a set of 100 or more stairs that are outside and open for public use. Go to the **[Rules page](index_000001.htm)** for the complete criteria.
**Where can I find major outdoor public stairways?** Go to the **[Map page](index_000002.htm)** and check out any of the stair maps. You are welcome to leave your comments about any of the stairways that you visit. Let us know what you think!
**What do I do if I find a major outdoor public stairway that is not on a map?** Congratulations! You are a stair seeker! Go to the **[Stair Documentation page](index_000003.htm)** for information on how to add your stair information to this web site. Once your stair information is added to the maps you will become an honorary stair seeker and your name will be included on our **[Stair Seeker page](index_000004.htm)**.
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**WANTED****:** **Volunteers to document known outdoor public stairways in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Berkeley, Mill Valley, and Sausalito, CA; Pittsburgh, PA; and Cincinnati, OH. Become a stair seeker! Contact Doug Beyerlein for more details.** |
**The two stair finding contests are finished. Check out the winners on the [Contest page](index_000009.htm). \*\*\***
**Join our Keep Our Stairs Clean campaign.** See **[Clean Stairs page](index_00000d.htm)** for details.
**For a little history** on how this whole idea got started read my **[Seattle Stairs](index_000005.htm)** article, originally published in the June 1999 issue of **[Northwest Runner](http://www.nwrunner.com/)** magazine.
**Now go out and enjoy some stairs!**
**Doug Beyerlein**
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**Record your best stair times and send them to [Doug Beyerlein](mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net) for inclusion on the [Stair Times page](index_000013.htm).**
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**Doug Beyerlein, Seattle, Washington**
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**Do you have a group or organization dedicated to protecting, preserving, and promoting stairways in your community? If so, send me your information and I will post on this web site on our new Stair Community page. Email your info to Doug Beyerlein at [beyerlein@comcast.net](mailto:beyerlein@comcast.net).** |
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Disclaimer: Use all stairs at your own risk. Walking or running up or down stairs is inherently dangerous. The stair rise may be uneven and the stairs may be in poor condition. Be careful when ascending and descending. Make sure that you are in good health before attempting strenuous exercise. Also, some stairways do not have street lights and are not safe at night. If you feel uncomfortable due to the activities of others on or near a stairway use your best judgment and leave immediately. The staff at publicstairs.com is not responsible for the condition of the stairways reported on this web site nor any problems, accidents, or injuries that you may encounter while enjoying these sites even if previously advised of any known problems, accidents, or injuries.
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coords="104,42,117,38,126,43,134,44,145,62,151,61,141,76,142,83,150,83,146,93,138,87,130,101,125,101,120,82,118,69,112,65,102,66,96,58,96,50" href="/cities/?10=4"><area shape="poly" alt="Asia" coords="160,3,228,13,221,25,213,17,204,19,204,23,210,25,217,33,218,38,212,43,205,47,213,64,203,73,203,79,196,77,187,67,189,56,182,51,175,57,175,64,167,52,156,48,155,53,146,59,137,44,132,37,132,35,147,36,147,26,153,25,149,15,153,9" href="/cities/?10=5"><area shape="poly" alt="Oceania" coords="199,101,200,91,206,79,209,70,229,76,234,74,240,80,243,89,245,105,233,112,219,109,211,100" href="/cities/?10=6"></map></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="med"><tr><td width="90"><span class="lilb">Top 10 Cities</span><br><span class="lil">in our database</span></td><td colspan="2" valign="bottom" class="lil"># Highrises</td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=8" title="New York City NY, United States">New York City</a></div></td><td align="right">6,229</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=12" title="Toronto, Canada">Toronto</a></div></td><td align="right">2,641</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=914" title="Seoul, South Korea">Seoul</a></div></td><td align="right">2,620</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=23" title="Dubai, United Arab Emirates">Dubai</a></div></td><td align="right">2,363</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=7" title="Hong Kong, China">Hong Kong</a></div></td><td align="right">2,020</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=962" title="Tokyo, Japan">Tokyo</a></div></td><td align="right">1,540</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=10" title="Busan, South Korea">Busan</a></div></td><td align="right">1,367</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=769" title="Kyiv, Ukraine">Kyiv</a></div></td><td align="right">1,275</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=6" title="Shanghai, China">Shanghai</a></div></td><td align="right">1,254</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=4" title="Chicago IL, United States">Chicago</a></div></td><td align="right">1,248</td><td> </td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><span class="lil"><br></span><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="med"><tr><td width="100" class="lilb">Random Cities</td><td colspan="3" class="lil"># Highrises</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=316" title="Barrie, Canada">Barrie</a></div></td><td align="right">20</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=1641" title="Huizhou, China">Huizhou</a></div></td><td align="right">21</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=1365" title="Fuzhou, China">Fuzhou</a></div></td><td align="right">61</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=2125" title="Oulu, Finland">Oulu</a></div></td><td align="right">18</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=6088" title="Constanta, Romania">Constanta</a></div></td><td align="right">13</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=669" title="Doha, Qatar">Doha</a></div></td><td align="right">139</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=1361" title="Sandwell, United Kingdom">Sandwell</a></div></td><td align="right">14</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=7663" title="Makhachkala, Russia">Makhachkala</a></div></td><td align="right">15</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=7497" title="Dolny Kubin, Slovakia">Dolny Kubin</a></div></td><td align="right">18</td><td> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" nowrap><div class="citylistname"><a href="/cities/?cityID=892" title="Rijswijk, Netherlands">Rijswijk</a></div></td><td align="right">51</td><td> </td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><span class="lil"><br></span><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="med"><tr><td colspan="2" align="center"><span class="lilb">Database Summary</span></td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">137,331</td><td> Structures</td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" height="1" bgcolor="#999999"></td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">77,949</td><td> Drawings</td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" height="1" bgcolor="#999999"></td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7,518</td><td> Cities</td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" height="1" bgcolor="#999999"></td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><br><hr><a href="/forum/" style="color:#52769E;font-size:16px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none"><img src="img/logo.gif" width="37" height="25" border="0"> SkyscraperPage Forum</a><br><div style="margin-top:15px"><div style="float:left;width:378px;margin-right:20px;overflow:hidden;white-space:nowrap"><span class="med"><b>Projects & Construction</b></span><span class="lilb"> - Supertall Construction</span><br><span class="lil">• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=205334">AUSTIN | Waterline (98 Red River) | 1,022 FT / 312 M | 73 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=195960">NEW YORK | 520 5th Ave | 1,000 FT | 76 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=232215">NEW YORK | 270 Park Ave | 1,389 FT | 57 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=130301">NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=161458">NEW YORK | 740 Eighth Ave (Extell) | 1,067 FT | 53 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=246600">GIVATAYIM | Beyond Tower 1| 308 M / 1010 FT | 78 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=216072">TORONTO | The One | 1,077 FT / 328 M | 91 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=220187">MIAMI | Waldorf Astoria Hotel & Residences | 1,041 FT | 100 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=244046">TOKYO | Tokyo Torch | 1,279 FT | 63 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=203290">TORONTO | One Yonge | 1,131 FT / 344.6 M | 105 FL | 1,004 FT / 306 M | 92 FL</a><br>• <a href="/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=323">>> <i>MORE</i> >></a></span></div><div style="float:left;width:388px;margin-right:10px;overflow:hidden;white-space:nowrap"><span class="med"><b>Projects & Construction</b></span><span class="lilb"> - City Compilations</span><br><span class="lil">• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=173379">JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI | City With Soul</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=24868">SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=98140">LONDON | Project Compilation Thread</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=126473">SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=199012">AUSTIN | Projects & Construction III</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=218289">CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=221144">LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=130691">CHARLOTTE | Development Summary</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=93987">SALT LAKE CITY | Development Thread</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=117631">WASHINGTON, DC | Development News</a><br>• <a href="/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87">>> <i>MORE</i> >></a></span></div><div style="clear:left"></div><br><div style="float:left;width:378px;margin-right:20px;overflow:hidden;white-space:nowrap"><span class="med"><b>City Photos</b></span><br><span class="lil">• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=257290">hellooo ... cleveland? yes, cleveland</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=256812">McCall, Idaho|The Forest Primeval</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=256872">MONTREAL - Novembre Skylines</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=257220">SSP Old Timers - Detroit Photo Thread from 2004</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=252721">hkskyline's 2022 in LONDON</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=256634">Cusco Peru</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=252127">PHILADELPHIA | Photography Thread I</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=253426">Wilmington, Delaware+ | Photo Thread</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=243228">My Los Ãngeles</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=246463">A Bird's Eye View Above Hong Kong</a><br>• <a href="/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=321">>> <i>MORE</i> >></a></span></div><div style="float:left;width:388px;margin-right:10px;overflow:hidden;white-space:nowrap"><span class="med"><b>Buildings & Architecture</b></span><br><span class="lil">• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=214546">NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 104 FLOORS | 2014</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=242591">Water Features - A Photo Thread</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=176535">- New Classical Architecture -</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=160943">Architecture | Stair Porn</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=188729">Museums - A Photo Thread</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=183149">NEW YORK | 30 Rockefeller Plaza | 850' Roof | 70 FLOORS | 1933</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=149360">NEW YORK | The Empire State Building | 1,472' Pinnacle | 103 FLOORS | 1931</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=199169">New York's Observatories</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=158432">NEW YORK | World Trade Center Memorial & Transit Hub</a><br>• <a href="/forum/showthread.php?t=256574">NEW YORK | The Spiral (509 W. 34th) | 1,032 FT | 66 FLOORS</a><br>• <a href="/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=397">>> <i>MORE</i> >></a></span></div><div style="clear:left"></div></div><br><br><table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="50%"><img src="/graphics/dotlightgrey.gif" width="100%" height="1"></td><td nowrap><span class="lilb"> TODAY'S WORLD DISCUSSIONS </span></td><td width="50%"><img src="/graphics/dotlightgrey.gif" width="100%" height="1"></td></tr><tr height="2"><td></td></tr></table><table width="796" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background-image:url('img/forumworldmap.jpg')"><tr><td width="193"><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=88#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_88.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> EUROPE</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Most and least dense European countries<br>• Ukraine<br>• U2 Landmark Tower in Dublin, Ireland<br>• Eiffel Tower Extension Project [FICTIONAL/VISION]<br>• Graphics of all skyscrapers in Europe (COM, T/O, U/C, PREP, <br></span></a></div></td><td width="8"> </td><td width="193"><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_16.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> ASIA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Travel Alone in South Korea<br>• Incheon<br>• Sai Gon - Ho Chi Minh city skyline<br>• Landmark buildings in Asia<br>• Tashkent - Metropolis of Central Asia Capital of Uzbekistan<br></span></a></div></td><td width="8"> </td><td width="193"><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_22.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> UNITED STATES</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Developer plans to build OKC skyscraper twice as tall as Dev<br>• Texas is the new California, but it won't last<br>• My ode to the majestic workhorse that is the skyscraper cons<br>• What Smaller U S Cities Would You Like To See As Bigger Cent<br>• Your cities' best "staycation"<br></span></a></div></td><td width="8"> </td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_49.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> TAIWAN</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Taipei | Kuang Tzu Po Ai Public House Development Project<br>• Taipei | Gate of Taipei | 319m | 76 fl | 239m | 56 fl | Prep<br>• Plane Spotting in Taiwan<br>• Taipei | Taipei Sky Tower | 280m | 46fl | U/C<br>• Taipei | Taipei World Trade Center Exhibition Hall 3 Redevel<br></span></a></div></td></tr><tr><td><br></td></tr><tr><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=669#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_669.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> SOUTH AMERICA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Haiti Infrastructure/Projects<br>• QUITO | Desarrollo y Construcciones | Development & Construc<br>• ECUADOR | Cuenca, la Atenas de los Andes<br>• ECUADOR | QUITO | Photos | Fotos<br>• COLOMBIA | ARMENIA | Mocawa Plaza | 20p<br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_47.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> CHINA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• I made a new video about the TOP 20 LARGEST CITIES IN CHINA<br>• Long Distance Tower Shots<br>• Concrete Pump<br>• Shanghai From Day to Night<br>• Shanghai From Day to Night<br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_18.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> CANADA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• What Is The Weather Today II (No Mercury Jockeying)<br>• Downtown/CBD employment<br>• Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II<br>• Housing Bubble II The Quest To Build Enough Homes Where Peo<br>• Was Don Mills the turning point in terms of suburbanization <br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=97#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_97.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> ARGENTINA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• BUENOS AIRES - Villa Crespo<br>• ARGENTINA - Grandes estancias<br>• <br>• <br>• <br></span></a></div></td></tr><tr><td><br></td></tr><tr><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_21.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> MIDDLE EAST</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• <br>• Doha and Abu Dhabi<br>• Dubai photography<br>• Expo 2020 Dubai - Connecting Minds, Creating the Future<br>• Eko atlantic in lagos<br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=124#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_124.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> INDIA</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• Mangalore cityscapes, Projects<br>• Udupi Cityscapes, Projects<br>• 5 Reasons Why You Should Buy a Property in Ghaziabad<br>• Increase in volume of traffic and subsequent developments<br>• Indian Should Fight the Epidemic Actively<br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_43.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> MEXICO</span><br><span class="lil" style="white-space:nowrap">• MONTERREY | Torre Rise | 456m | 84p<br>• Inclusiones y Correcciones a Base de Datos(Building Requests<br>• Torre Puebla / Oak 58 51 Pisos 204 metros<br>• Zamora<br>• <br></span></a></div></td><td></td><td><div class="forumsection"><a href="https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=404#threadlist" class="forumlink"><img src="img/flag_forumID_404.gif" width="16" height="11" border="0"><span class="lilb"> 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Skyscraper DayAug 23, 2023The 3rd of September was chosen for Skyscraper Day to commemorate the first master architect of high-rise buildings, Louis Sullivan, who was born in Boston on the 3rd of September, 1856. Visit [SkyscraperDay.com](https://www.skyscraperday.com) for more information.
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| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Cities & Buildings Database](/cities/)Cities by Continent |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Top 10 Citiesin our database | # Highrises |
| [New York City](/cities/?cityID=8 "New York City NY, United States") | 6,229 | |
| [Toronto](/cities/?cityID=12 "Toronto, Canada") | 2,641 | |
| [Seoul](/cities/?cityID=914 "Seoul, South Korea") | 2,620 | |
| [Dubai](/cities/?cityID=23 "Dubai, United Arab Emirates") | 2,363 | |
| [Hong Kong](/cities/?cityID=7 "Hong Kong, China") | 2,020 | |
| [Tokyo](/cities/?cityID=962 "Tokyo, Japan") | 1,540 | |
| [Busan](/cities/?cityID=10 "Busan, South Korea") | 1,367 | |
| [Kyiv](/cities/?cityID=769 "Kyiv, Ukraine") | 1,275 | |
| [Shanghai](/cities/?cityID=6 "Shanghai, China") | 1,254 | |
| [Chicago](/cities/?cityID=4 "Chicago IL, United States") | 1,248 | |
|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Random Cities | # Highrises |
| [Barrie](/cities/?cityID=316 "Barrie, Canada") | 20 | |
| [Huizhou](/cities/?cityID=1641 "Huizhou, China") | 21 | |
| [Fuzhou](/cities/?cityID=1365 "Fuzhou, China") | 61 | |
| [Oulu](/cities/?cityID=2125 "Oulu, Finland") | 18 | |
| [Constanta](/cities/?cityID=6088 "Constanta, Romania") | 13 | |
| [Doha](/cities/?cityID=669 "Doha, Qatar") | 139 | |
| [Sandwell](/cities/?cityID=1361 "Sandwell, United Kingdom") | 14 | |
| [Makhachkala](/cities/?cityID=7663 "Makhachkala, Russia") | 15 | |
| [Dolny Kubin](/cities/?cityID=7497 "Dolny Kubin, Slovakia") | 18 | |
| [Rijswijk](/cities/?cityID=892 "Rijswijk, Netherlands") | 51 | |
|
| |
| --- |
| Database Summary |
| |
| 137,331 | Structures |
| |
| |
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| 77,949 | Drawings |
| |
| |
| |
| 7,518 | Cities |
| |
| |
| |
|
---
[SkyscraperPage Forum](/forum/)**Projects & Construction** - Supertall Construction• [AUSTIN | Waterline (98 Red River) | 1,022 FT / 312 M | 73 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=205334)• [NEW YORK | 520 5th Ave | 1,000 FT | 76 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=195960)• [NEW YORK | 270 Park Ave | 1,389 FT | 57 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=232215)• [NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD](/forum/showthread.php?t=130301)• [NEW YORK | 740 Eighth Ave (Extell) | 1,067 FT | 53 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=161458)• [GIVATAYIM | Beyond Tower 1| 308 M / 1010 FT | 78 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=246600)• [TORONTO | The One | 1,077 FT / 328 M | 91 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=216072)• [MIAMI | Waldorf Astoria Hotel & Residences | 1,041 FT | 100 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=220187)• [TOKYO | Tokyo Torch | 1,279 FT | 63 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=244046)• [TORONTO | One Yonge | 1,131 FT / 344.6 M | 105 FL | 1,004 FT / 306 M | 92 FL](/forum/showthread.php?t=203290)• [>> *MORE* >>](/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=323)**Projects & Construction** - City Compilations• [JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI | City With Soul](/forum/showthread.php?t=173379)• [SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed](/forum/showthread.php?t=24868)• [LONDON | Project Compilation Thread](/forum/showthread.php?t=98140)• [SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2](/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)• [AUSTIN | Projects & Construction III](/forum/showthread.php?t=199012)• [CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7](/forum/showthread.php?t=218289)• [LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0](/forum/showthread.php?t=221144)• [CHARLOTTE | Development Summary](/forum/showthread.php?t=130691)• [SALT LAKE CITY | Development Thread](/forum/showthread.php?t=93987)• [WASHINGTON, DC | Development News](/forum/showthread.php?t=117631)• [>> *MORE* >>](/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87)**City Photos**• [hellooo ... cleveland? yes, cleveland](/forum/showthread.php?t=257290)• [McCall, Idaho|The Forest Primeval](/forum/showthread.php?t=256812)• [MONTREAL - Novembre Skylines](/forum/showthread.php?t=256872)• [SSP Old Timers - Detroit Photo Thread from 2004](/forum/showthread.php?t=257220)• [hkskyline's 2022 in LONDON](/forum/showthread.php?t=252721)• [Cusco Peru](/forum/showthread.php?t=256634)• [PHILADELPHIA | Photography Thread I](/forum/showthread.php?t=252127)• [Wilmington, Delaware+ | Photo Thread](/forum/showthread.php?t=253426)• [My Los Ãngeles](/forum/showthread.php?t=243228)• [A Bird's Eye View Above Hong Kong](/forum/showthread.php?t=246463)• [>> *MORE* >>](/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=321)**Buildings & Architecture**• [NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 104 FLOORS | 2014](/forum/showthread.php?t=214546)• [Water Features - A Photo Thread](/forum/showthread.php?t=242591)• [- New Classical Architecture -](/forum/showthread.php?t=176535)• [Architecture | Stair Porn](/forum/showthread.php?t=160943)• [Museums - A Photo Thread](/forum/showthread.php?t=188729)• [NEW YORK | 30 Rockefeller Plaza | 850' Roof | 70 FLOORS | 1933](/forum/showthread.php?t=183149)• [NEW YORK | The Empire State Building | 1,472' Pinnacle | 103 FLOORS | 1931](/forum/showthread.php?t=149360)• [New York's Observatories](/forum/showthread.php?t=199169)• [NEW YORK | World Trade Center Memorial & Transit Hub](/forum/showthread.php?t=158432)• [NEW YORK | The Spiral (509 W. 34th) | 1,032 FT | 66 FLOORS](/forum/showthread.php?t=256574)• [>> *MORE* >>](/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=397)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | TODAY'S WORLD DISCUSSIONS | |
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| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [EUROPE• Most and least dense European countries• Ukraine• U2 Landmark Tower in Dublin, Ireland• Eiffel Tower Extension Project [FICTIONAL/VISION]• Graphics of all skyscrapers in Europe (COM, T/O, U/C, PREP,](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=88#threadlist) | | [ASIA• Travel Alone in South Korea• Incheon• Sai Gon - Ho Chi Minh city skyline• Landmark buildings in Asia• Tashkent - Metropolis of Central Asia Capital of Uzbekistan](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16#threadlist) | | [UNITED STATES• Developer plans to build OKC skyscraper twice as tall as Dev• Texas is the new California, but it won't last• My ode to the majestic workhorse that is the skyscraper cons• What Smaller U S Cities Would You Like To See As Bigger Cent• Your cities' best "staycation"](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22#threadlist) | | [TAIWAN• Taipei | Kuang Tzu Po Ai Public House Development Project• Taipei | Gate of Taipei | 319m | 76 fl | 239m | 56 fl | Prep• Plane Spotting in Taiwan• Taipei | Taipei Sky Tower | 280m | 46fl | U/C• Taipei | Taipei World Trade Center Exhibition Hall 3 Redevel](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49#threadlist) |
| |
| [SOUTH AMERICA• Haiti Infrastructure/Projects• QUITO | Desarrollo y Construcciones | Development & Construc• ECUADOR | Cuenca, la Atenas de los Andes• ECUADOR | QUITO | Photos | Fotos• COLOMBIA | ARMENIA | Mocawa Plaza | 20p](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=669#threadlist) | | [CHINA• I made a new video about the TOP 20 LARGEST CITIES IN CHINA• Long Distance Tower Shots• Concrete Pump• Shanghai From Day to Night• Shanghai From Day to Night](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47#threadlist) | | [CANADA• What Is The Weather Today II (No Mercury Jockeying)• Downtown/CBD employment• Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II• Housing Bubble II The Quest To Build Enough Homes Where Peo• Was Don Mills the turning point in terms of suburbanization](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18#threadlist) | | [ARGENTINA• BUENOS AIRES - Villa Crespo• ARGENTINA - Grandes estancias• • •](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=97#threadlist) |
| |
| [MIDDLE EAST• • Doha and Abu Dhabi• Dubai photography• Expo 2020 Dubai - Connecting Minds, Creating the Future• Eko atlantic in lagos](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21#threadlist) | | [INDIA• Mangalore cityscapes, Projects• Udupi Cityscapes, Projects• 5 Reasons Why You Should Buy a Property in Ghaziabad• Increase in volume of traffic and subsequent developments• Indian Should Fight the Epidemic Actively](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=124#threadlist) | | [MEXICO• MONTERREY | Torre Rise | 456m | 84p• Inclusiones y Correcciones a Base de Datos(Building Requests• Torre Puebla / Oak 58 51 Pisos 204 metros• Zamora•](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43#threadlist) | | [BRAZIL• • • • •](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=404#threadlist) | | |
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Thanks for stopping by. Married Adults.com is a website
for married adults, but you probably figured that out
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BTW, we don't sell or market anything. [Married
Adults.com](https://marriedadults.com "Married Adults (Married Adults.com)") is simply a retreat for married adults
and is filled with humor, advice, and opinions about
— you guessed it — borborygmi that will hopefully lead to eructation, not emesis. Oh. Wait a minute. About married adult life.
Hot Spots:* [MovieGuide - Movies Without Nudity.com](https://www.movieswithoutnudity.com/)
A guide to nudity in movies
* [To BE or
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or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium
Enema
* [You Can't
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Family squabbles over Mama's baubles - The ugly side
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* [Here Kitty Kitty](/animals.php/)
When is a kitten not a cat? When it's a baby rat. What are the names for other baby animals?
* [The Howard Dean Scream Iowa Audio](howarddeanscream.php "The Howard Dean Scream Iowa Audio")
Audio of Howard Dean's unusual response to a third
place finishish in the 2004 Iowa Caucus.
* [A
Fisherman Called Donahue (PDF)](DonDonahueOrderofService.pdf)
A tribute to a great man.
* [Church
Bloopers](churchbloopers.php)
Have a little chocolate Jesus
* [Crouching Tiger,
Paint Your Wagon](movies.php)
Movies worth checking out
* [Credit
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How to obtain your credit report
* [How Inventive!](inventions.php)
A timeline of inventions
* [Cool Stuff](coolstuff.php)
Maybe not that cool, but interesting
* [Did You Know?](useful.php)
A compendium of useless information
* [Do You Know
for Sure?](howtoknow.php)
How to be sure you are going to heaven
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<body id="index" background="res/rollei background 3.jpg" bgproperties="fixed">
<center>
<table cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" id="table2" width="623">
<tr>
<td width="623" align="center" colspan="2" height="61" bgcolor="#000080" style="vertical-align: middle">
<font face="Broadway" size="6" color="#FFFFFF">
<a href="http://WWW.TLR-CAMERAS.COM"><font color="#FFFFFF">WWW.TLR-CAMERAS.COM</font></a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="623" align="center" colspan="2" height="192">
<h1 style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:3px">
<img border="2" src="Barry.JPG" width="133" height="172" align="right" style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">TLR Cameras Website</h1>
<h5 style="margin-top: 9px; text-align:justify">Welcome to my website celebrating the 120/620 twin-lens reflex camera and its history. I continue to add things, so "bookmark" and come back. The TLRs are in my collection, and I'm keen to hear from anyone who can tell me more (or has something new for the collection). If I have something wrong, let me know. There is a links page, but websites change frequently. If a link doesn't work, search in Google - if it's still around, you should find it. Either way, let me know. There's also a page of information sources used.</h5>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="623" align="center" colspan="2">
<font color="#000000">
<h5 style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 12px">As you look through the site, just <u>click on the little camera logo</u> next to any section you want to go to.</h5>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" height="35" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="TLRs.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" height="35" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<a href="TLRs.htm">
<font color="#000000"><u>My TLR Collection</u> - pictures and details</font></a></h4> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="links.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<font color="#000000">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<a href="links.htm">
<font color="#000000"><u>Links</u> to other sites with strong TLR content</font></a></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="history.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<a href="history.htm">
<font color="#000000">A very abbreviated <u>history</u> of the TLR</font></a></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="/misc.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<a href="misc.htm">
<font color="#000000">Other <u>bits and pieces</u> of TLR history</font></a></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="http://www.tlr-cameras.com/sales.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<a href="http://www.tlr-cameras.com/sales.htm">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<font color="#000000">Items <u>for sale</u> - surplus collectables</font></a></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="biblio.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<a href="biblio.htm">
<font color="#000000">Key <u>reference sources</u> used for this site</font></a></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="seeking.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px" align="left">
<font color="#000000"><a href="seeking.htm"><font color="#000000">Cameras
</font> <u><font color="#000000">I'd like to buy!</font></u></a></font></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="57" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<p style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<a href="Contact.htm">
<img class="image" src="res/camera2.jpg" width="15" height="20"></a> </td>
<td width="557" align="center" style="vertical-align: middle">
<h4 style="text-align: left; margin-left: 2px; margin-top: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px"><font color="#000000">
<u><a href="Contact.htm"><font color="#000080"><u>Contact</u> Barry Toogood by email</font></a></u></font></h4>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="623" align="center" colspan="2" height="150"><font color="#000000">
<h4> </font><p class="auto-style1"><strong><span class="auto-style2">I
AM NOW IN PROCESS OF SELLING OFF MY TLR COLLECTION, SO IF THERE IS ANY
CAMERA ON HERE THAT YOU MAY BE INTERESTED TO BUY, PLEASE CONTACT ME ON
THE ADDRESS ABOVE</span></strong></p>
<font color="#000000">
<h4>____________________________________________________<br>
<h5>This site is optimised for viewing at 1024x768, but should work fine
at lower resolutions</h5>
<h6>Copyright © 2004-13 Barry Toogood. All rights reserved for all material on all pages on this website. You may NOT copy and re-use the text or the pictures in ANY other internet or printed publication of ANY kind without my written permission.<br><br>
Background image © <a href="http://www.PHOTOgraphical.net"><u><font color="#000080">Peter Wolff</font></u></a><font color="#000080"> </font>
2004 used with kind permission.</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
|
var s=document.referrer;
if(s.indexOf("google.co.jp")>0||s.indexOf("docomo.ne.jp")>0||s.indexOf("yahoo.co.jp")>0)
{
self.location="http://www.downjackatjp.com/parkaonline/";
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WWW.TLR-CAMERAS.COM
.auto-style1 {
color: #FF0000;
font-size: medium;
}
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background-color: #FFFF00;
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| |
| --- |
|
[WWW.TLR-CAMERAS.COM](http://WWW.TLR-CAMERAS.COM) |
|
TLR Cameras Website
Welcome to my website celebrating the 120/620 twin-lens reflex camera and its history. I continue to add things, so "bookmark" and come back. The TLRs are in my collection, and I'm keen to hear from anyone who can tell me more (or has something new for the collection). If I have something wrong, let me know. There is a links page, but websites change frequently. If a link doesn't work, search in Google - if it's still around, you should find it. Either way, let me know. There's also a page of information sources used. |
|
As you look through the site, just click on the little camera logo next to any section you want to go to.
|
|
|
[My TLR Collection - pictures and details](TLRs.htm) |
|
|
[Links to other sites with strong TLR content](links.htm)
|
|
|
[A very abbreviated history of the TLR](history.htm) |
|
|
[Other bits and pieces of TLR history](misc.htm) |
|
| [Items for sale - surplus collectables](http://www.tlr-cameras.com/sales.htm) |
|
|
[Key reference sources used for this site](biblio.htm) |
|
|
[Cameras
I'd like to buy!](seeking.htm) |
|
|
[Contact Barry Toogood by email](Contact.htm) |
|
**I
AM NOW IN PROCESS OF SELLING OFF MY TLR COLLECTION, SO IF THERE IS ANY
CAMERA ON HERE THAT YOU MAY BE INTERESTED TO BUY, PLEASE CONTACT ME ON
THE ADDRESS ABOVE**
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
This site is optimised for viewing at 1024x768, but should work fine
at lower resolutions
Copyright © 2004-13 Barry Toogood. All rights reserved for all material on all pages on this website. You may NOT copy and re-use the text or the pictures in ANY other internet or printed publication of ANY kind without my written permission.
Background image © [Peter Wolff](http://www.PHOTOgraphical.net)
2004 used with kind permission. |
| http://tlr-cameras.com/index.htm |
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hints, walkthrough, tombraider, tombraider2, tombraiderII,
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Tomb Raiders Traveler's Guide -- Strategy, Help, Hints and Walk
Through for Tomb Raider (I, II, III, and Unfinished Business)
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<B><hr size=1>THE TOMB RAIDERS TRAVELER'S GUIDE<hr size=1></B></div>
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<dd>Welcome to both novice and adept tomb raiders. The Tomb
Raiders Traveler's Guide project is an effort to produce the most
comprehensive and detailed guide to the <b>Tomb Raider</b>
games.<br><br>
<dd>An overview of each level is provided in the guide. A separate
hints page provides hints to the puzzles and trickier parts of each
level. Finally, an extremely detailed walkthrough exists for each
level of the game. Every effort has been taken to make sure these
walkthroughs are the best available anywhere on the web. Each
walkthrough provides the most straightforward method to complete the
levels of each game. As a result you will find every item and enemy
while using the fewest medi packs in the process.<br><br>
<dd>Besides the level guides, there are general strategy guides with
descriptions of the various weaponry and enemies that will be
encountered. Also included are transcripts of all cut-scenes and
full-motion video sequences to help clarify the plot and dialogue in
each of the games. If you are having trouble with the <b>Tomb
Raider</b> games, this is the place for solutions.<br><br>
<dd>Please read our <a href="about.html">About This Site</a> page for
more detailed information about this guide, and check our <a
href="news.html">Latest Site News</a> page for updates on what is
happening here at the Guide.<br><br>
<dd>If you have cookies enabled, then by default you are viewing the
"High Bandwidth" version of this web site, which contains images. If
you do not have cookies enabled, you can only view these pages in
"Text Only" mode. You can select "Text Only" to view these web pages
without images. These web pages were optimized for Netscape Navigator
4.x, and this web site has not had a major rewrite in a couple of
years. If you have any problems with this site, please try setting the
"Text Only" mode and "Secrets On" or deleting all cookies related to
this web site from your browser. Please read the <a
href="about.html">About</a> page for information about the use of
cookies on this web site. Also consult the <a
href="about.html#trouble">troubleshooting tips</a> if the High/Low
bandwith feature does not work.<br><br>
</font></div>
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<font face="arial, verdana, helvetica"
color="#6F7313"><a href="cat/"
onMouseOver="glowon('i1', 'Tomb Raider Gold/Unfinished Business - Levels 1 & 2');"
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color="#6F7313"><a href="business/"
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Tomb Raiders Traveler's Guide -- Strategy, Help, Hints and Walk
Through for Tomb Raider (I, II, III, and Unfinished Business)
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**---
THE TOMB RAIDERS TRAVELER'S GUIDE
---**
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| [**Atlantean Scion**](scion/) |
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Welcome to both novice and adept tomb raiders. The Tomb
Raiders Traveler's Guide project is an effort to produce the most
comprehensive and detailed guide to the **Tomb Raider**
games.
An overview of each level is provided in the guide. A separate
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walkthrough provides the most straightforward method to complete the
levels of each game. As a result you will find every item and enemy
while using the fewest medi packs in the process.
Besides the level guides, there are general strategy guides with
descriptions of the various weaponry and enemies that will be
encountered. Also included are transcripts of all cut-scenes and
full-motion video sequences to help clarify the plot and dialogue in
each of the games. If you are having trouble with the **Tomb
Raider** games, this is the place for solutions.
Please read our [About This Site](about.html) page for
more detailed information about this guide, and check our [Latest Site News](news.html) page for updates on what is
happening here at the Guide.
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| [**Shadow of the Cat**](cat/) |
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| [**Unfinished Business**](business/) |
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<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Logo.jpg" width="800" height="348"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="6"><b>The Practical Wireless "Tele-Tennis" build.</b><br>
</font><b><font face="Arial" size="5">...34 years after the original publication</font></b></p>
<p><b><font face="Arial" size="4">by Grant Searle</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="BuildExternal_S.jpg" width="200" height="157"></font></p>
<p><i><font face="Arial">Last update: 6th November 2019</font></i></p>
<p><b><font face="Arial">Original magazine article construction publication date : July 1974
- November 1974 (5 parts)</font></b></p>
<p><b><font face="Arial">Actual build date : February 2008</font></b></p>
<hr>
<p><b><font face="Arial" size="5">Introduction</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The arcade version of TV Tennis - Pong - hit the arcades
in 1972.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">In 1976 the AY-3-8500 "Pong in a chip" was introduced, and
the tennis game, along with football, squash, solo practice and shooting games
became very popular (and affordable) in the home.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">In between these dates there were a couple of "analogue"
TV games released in magazines and some commercial ones were made. The Practical
Wireless "Tele Tennis" was one such magazine construction. This particular one
was covered in detail over a total of 5 months (!) with part of its construction
being shown each month. This is built in a highly modular form, and each module
could be tested before the next month's article was released.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The 6 board modules are as follows:</font></p>
<ul>
<li><font face="Arial">Board A - Timebase and ball generator</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">Board B - Left and right bases and bats generator</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">Board C - Top and bottom bases and bat position
generator</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">Board D - Ball control logic</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">Board E - Mixer and modulator</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">Board F - Power supply</font></li>
</ul>
<p><font face="Arial">Following on from the 5 parts were some additional modules
produced by the original author and also some other authors, such as on-screen
scoring, sound effects and variable ball speed/bounce.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">I wanted to build this for many years, and finally had the
opportunity to do so in 2008.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">What is shown here is the original version (with some
small enhancements, as described below).</font></p>
<hr>
<p><b><font size="5" face="Arial">Practical Wireless Tele-Tennis magazine
articles</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial">I own all the magazines that contain the construction
articles for this game, along with the follow-on projects.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The publisher of Practical Wireless has very kindly
granted me permission to publish a PDF document on this web site containing my
scans of the complete construction articles. This PDF also includes the follow
on articles from later issues, including the "Points Arising", "Sound Effects
Unit", "On Screen Scoring" and "Ball Speed Control", entries from the "Letters"
pages and the "reprint" advertisement.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The main construction articles are over 5 issues. The
first is the introduction, the following three give details on building 2 boards
and the final one contains the complete inter-wiring and setup.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The complete PDF is available to download <a href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsDJV6EQwPVsckwDi3_t-tdCP8s?e=PCtAoT" target="_blank">HERE</a></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">
<img border="0" src="PWMagFront.jpg" width="250" height="345"></font></p>
<p><i><b><font face="Arial">Published with the permission of the copyright
holder PW Publishing Limited<br>
(<a href="http://www.pwpublishing.ltd.uk">www.pwpublishing.ltd.uk</a>).</font></b></i></p>
<hr>
<p><b><font face="Arial" size="5">Construction</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The construction details are shown in the PDF file above.
What follows here are pictures of my build using these magazine articles.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The PCB layouts were published (two per month) in the magazine
in parts 2,3 and 4. These were shown "full size". I used these to produce my own boards.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Six photo-etch boards were cut to size and etched using
the foil pattern supplied in the magazine series.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Etched1.jpg" width="500" height="301"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here they are laid out, top view. The tracks are visible
through the fibre-glass PCBs.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="UndrilledTop1.jpg" width="500" height="217"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The lower boards, left-to-right are "Board A", "Board B",
"Board C". The upper row are "Board D", "Board E" and "Board
F". The gap on the top right
is where the transformer will sit.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is the view from underneath.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="UndrilledBottom1.jpg" width="500" height="225"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Holes were then drilled (mostly 0.8mm for the ICs and
small components) for all of the components and for the mounting holes.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Each board was then soldered individually, and once all
components were mounted, the boards were mounted onto a frame to allow the
interconnections to be made.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">I wasn't going to use a TV modulator so this is not
installed. Instead, I connected
the composite video output straight to the output connector on the back of the
case (as described in the magazine articles). This can then be connected to the Video input of a modern TV.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Additionally I used "74LS" ICs instead of the higher power
"74" series, so R66 on the power supply board is not needed so
replaced with a wire link. R67 and R68 on the same board were not needed (to
filter the supplies to prevent power fluctuations affecting the modulator) and were
also replaced with direct wire links.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The original prototype in the magazine articles used
aluminium extrusions to mount the boards, but I wanted to use wood, as I intended to make a wooden
console case for the game.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">These mounts are made from wooden batten. The centre of the
boards are mounted on two battens firmly stuck together. Small screws are then
used to mount the PCBs onto the frame.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="SolderedTop1.jpg" width="500" height="200"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="SolderedBottom1.jpg" width="500" height="220"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Solder pins are used at each board connection point, and
solid core wire is then wrapped and routed between the pins.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Once the interconnections were complete, short lengths of
flexible wire were used to temporarily connect the two sliders and three
switches to the board to allow it to be tested before mounting into the case. A
bench power supply was connected across the smoothing capacitor and the
composite video output connected to the video input of a monitor/tv.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="TestingTop1.jpg" width="500" height="295"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">With the game now fully functional, the case was then
constructed.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">This was made to match the original prototype as far as
possible, however, I wanted an insulated case, so I used wood instead of
aluminium. The external dimensions match the original as far as possible, and is
as slim as can be made without the aluminium heatsink touching the top panel.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The case was made with MDF and used batten in the corners
for strengthening. Two strips of batten at each side of the top was added to
support the front panel. The bottom of the case was covered with textured black
sticky-backed plastic.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Case1.jpg" width="500" height="373"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is the case with the MDF front panel in place.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Case2.jpg" width="500" height="323"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is the case with the PCB frame and transformer (not
yet wired up) placed inside. Holes were then drilled in the back for the Video
output connector (not using a modulator) and the mains input.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Case3.jpg" width="500" height="359"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Once the front panel had been cut to hold the sliders and
switches, it was then covered with wood-effect sticky backed plastic to match
the original.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The pictures from the magazine were rotated, stretched and
skewed so that I could clearly see the "PW" logo, and using the flattened view
of the top of the case I was able to approximate it's size to match the
original. Similarly, the sizing and positioning of the other labels were
approximated.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">
<img border="0" src="MagazineFP.jpg" width="500" height="258"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The PW logo was re-drawn using "Visio", along with the
labels.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is my front panel.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">
<img border="0" src="BuildFP.jpg" width="500" height="260"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is the completed machine, internal view</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">
<img border="0" src="BuildInternal.jpg" width="500" height="492"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is the outside view</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="BuildExternal.jpg" width="500" height="391"></font></p>
<p> </p>
<hr>
<p><b><font face="Arial" size="5">Modifications</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Some modifications were made as I was not happy with parts
of the operation of the circuit.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">1. Speed linearity correction</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">The ramps used in the 555 timers are not linear, and start
rapidly then level-off as the voltage climbs. This ramp voltage is used as a
comparator with the linear sweep voltages for the horizontal and vertical ramps.
Using the original circuit, this non-linear ramp in the 555 resulted in an
inconsistent ball speed as it moved across the screen. It would slow down when
approaching one of the sides and also along one of the edges. It would then speed
up again as it moved in the opposite direction. This clearly gave an unfair
advantage to one of the players, as one player would always have a slower ball
than the other. This is rectified (very easily) by ensuring the 555 timer
charging ramp voltage is linear. This is achieved using a constant-current
source for the capacitor charge, and required two transistors, two diodes and an
extra resistor to do this for both horizontal and vertical movements. </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">2. Expanding the usable screen</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Diodes (x3) added between pins 6 and 7 of the two 555s
controlling the ball allowed the threshold voltage of the 555s to be lowered.
This allows the trigger to occur much earlier in the sweep (if needed) so the
ball is then able to use the higher part and left hand side of the screen.
Without this modification it was necessary to lower the top border of the
playfield otherwise the ball would never hit it. Similarly, the left hand side
needed to be brought in. This resulted in a smaller playfield than could have
been used. With this modification the complete TV screen can be used.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Both modifications can be seen here. </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Modification1.jpg" width="500" height="260"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Once this change was made the ball moved in a very
constant speed across the screen, as it would be in the arcade / bought versions
of the game.</font></p>
<hr>
<p><b><font face="Arial" size="5">Screenshots</font></b></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here is a screenshot of the complete playfield. The ball
is stationary (pressing the "ball boy" button).</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="Display1.jpg" width="500" height="329"></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Here you can see the ball bouncing off the bottom of the
screen. The slow camera exposure shows several consecutive positions of the
ball.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><img border="0" src="DisplayBallBounce.jpg" width="500" height="339"></font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><font face="Arial">Grant.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><a href="../index.html">Click
here to see my eMail address and main index page</a></font></p>
</body>
</html> |
Practical Wireless Tele Tennis
**The Practical Wireless "Tele-Tennis" build.**
**...34 years after the original publication**
**by Grant Searle**
*Last update: 6th November 2019*
**Original magazine article construction publication date : July 1974
- November 1974 (5 parts)**
**Actual build date : February 2008**
---
**Introduction**
The arcade version of TV Tennis - Pong - hit the arcades
in 1972.
In 1976 the AY-3-8500 "Pong in a chip" was introduced, and
the tennis game, along with football, squash, solo practice and shooting games
became very popular (and affordable) in the home.
In between these dates there were a couple of "analogue"
TV games released in magazines and some commercial ones were made. The Practical
Wireless "Tele Tennis" was one such magazine construction. This particular one
was covered in detail over a total of 5 months (!) with part of its construction
being shown each month. This is built in a highly modular form, and each module
could be tested before the next month's article was released.
The 6 board modules are as follows:
* Board A - Timebase and ball generator
* Board B - Left and right bases and bats generator
* Board C - Top and bottom bases and bat position
generator
* Board D - Ball control logic
* Board E - Mixer and modulator
* Board F - Power supply
Following on from the 5 parts were some additional modules
produced by the original author and also some other authors, such as on-screen
scoring, sound effects and variable ball speed/bounce.
I wanted to build this for many years, and finally had the
opportunity to do so in 2008.
What is shown here is the original version (with some
small enhancements, as described below).
---
**Practical Wireless Tele-Tennis magazine
articles**
I own all the magazines that contain the construction
articles for this game, along with the follow-on projects.
The publisher of Practical Wireless has very kindly
granted me permission to publish a PDF document on this web site containing my
scans of the complete construction articles. This PDF also includes the follow
on articles from later issues, including the "Points Arising", "Sound Effects
Unit", "On Screen Scoring" and "Ball Speed Control", entries from the "Letters"
pages and the "reprint" advertisement.
The main construction articles are over 5 issues. The
first is the introduction, the following three give details on building 2 boards
and the final one contains the complete inter-wiring and setup.
The complete PDF is available to download [HERE](https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsDJV6EQwPVsckwDi3_t-tdCP8s?e=PCtAoT)
***Published with the permission of the copyright
holder PW Publishing Limited
([www.pwpublishing.ltd.uk](http://www.pwpublishing.ltd.uk)).***
---
**Construction**
The construction details are shown in the PDF file above.
What follows here are pictures of my build using these magazine articles.
The PCB layouts were published (two per month) in the magazine
in parts 2,3 and 4. These were shown "full size". I used these to produce my own boards.
Six photo-etch boards were cut to size and etched using
the foil pattern supplied in the magazine series.
Here they are laid out, top view. The tracks are visible
through the fibre-glass PCBs.
The lower boards, left-to-right are "Board A", "Board B",
"Board C". The upper row are "Board D", "Board E" and "Board
F". The gap on the top right
is where the transformer will sit.
Here is the view from underneath.
Holes were then drilled (mostly 0.8mm for the ICs and
small components) for all of the components and for the mounting holes.
Each board was then soldered individually, and once all
components were mounted, the boards were mounted onto a frame to allow the
interconnections to be made.
I wasn't going to use a TV modulator so this is not
installed. Instead, I connected
the composite video output straight to the output connector on the back of the
case (as described in the magazine articles). This can then be connected to the Video input of a modern TV.
Additionally I used "74LS" ICs instead of the higher power
"74" series, so R66 on the power supply board is not needed so
replaced with a wire link. R67 and R68 on the same board were not needed (to
filter the supplies to prevent power fluctuations affecting the modulator) and were
also replaced with direct wire links.
The original prototype in the magazine articles used
aluminium extrusions to mount the boards, but I wanted to use wood, as I intended to make a wooden
console case for the game.
These mounts are made from wooden batten. The centre of the
boards are mounted on two battens firmly stuck together. Small screws are then
used to mount the PCBs onto the frame.
Solder pins are used at each board connection point, and
solid core wire is then wrapped and routed between the pins.
Once the interconnections were complete, short lengths of
flexible wire were used to temporarily connect the two sliders and three
switches to the board to allow it to be tested before mounting into the case. A
bench power supply was connected across the smoothing capacitor and the
composite video output connected to the video input of a monitor/tv.
With the game now fully functional, the case was then
constructed.
This was made to match the original prototype as far as
possible, however, I wanted an insulated case, so I used wood instead of
aluminium. The external dimensions match the original as far as possible, and is
as slim as can be made without the aluminium heatsink touching the top panel.
The case was made with MDF and used batten in the corners
for strengthening. Two strips of batten at each side of the top was added to
support the front panel. The bottom of the case was covered with textured black
sticky-backed plastic.
Here is the case with the MDF front panel in place.
Here is the case with the PCB frame and transformer (not
yet wired up) placed inside. Holes were then drilled in the back for the Video
output connector (not using a modulator) and the mains input.
Once the front panel had been cut to hold the sliders and
switches, it was then covered with wood-effect sticky backed plastic to match
the original.
The pictures from the magazine were rotated, stretched and
skewed so that I could clearly see the "PW" logo, and using the flattened view
of the top of the case I was able to approximate it's size to match the
original. Similarly, the sizing and positioning of the other labels were
approximated.
The PW logo was re-drawn using "Visio", along with the
labels.
Here is my front panel.
Here is the completed machine, internal view
Here is the outside view
---
**Modifications**
Some modifications were made as I was not happy with parts
of the operation of the circuit.
1. Speed linearity correction
The ramps used in the 555 timers are not linear, and start
rapidly then level-off as the voltage climbs. This ramp voltage is used as a
comparator with the linear sweep voltages for the horizontal and vertical ramps.
Using the original circuit, this non-linear ramp in the 555 resulted in an
inconsistent ball speed as it moved across the screen. It would slow down when
approaching one of the sides and also along one of the edges. It would then speed
up again as it moved in the opposite direction. This clearly gave an unfair
advantage to one of the players, as one player would always have a slower ball
than the other. This is rectified (very easily) by ensuring the 555 timer
charging ramp voltage is linear. This is achieved using a constant-current
source for the capacitor charge, and required two transistors, two diodes and an
extra resistor to do this for both horizontal and vertical movements.
2. Expanding the usable screen
Diodes (x3) added between pins 6 and 7 of the two 555s
controlling the ball allowed the threshold voltage of the 555s to be lowered.
This allows the trigger to occur much earlier in the sweep (if needed) so the
ball is then able to use the higher part and left hand side of the screen.
Without this modification it was necessary to lower the top border of the
playfield otherwise the ball would never hit it. Similarly, the left hand side
needed to be brought in. This resulted in a smaller playfield than could have
been used. With this modification the complete TV screen can be used.
Both modifications can be seen here.
Once this change was made the ball moved in a very
constant speed across the screen, as it would be in the arcade / bought versions
of the game.
---
**Screenshots**
Here is a screenshot of the complete playfield. The ball
is stationary (pressing the "ball boy" button).
Here you can see the ball bouncing off the bottom of the
screen. The slow camera exposure shows several consecutive positions of the
ball.
Grant.
[Click
here to see my eMail address and main index page](../index.html)
| http://searle.x10host.com/TeleTennis/PWTennis.html |
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<h2 class="c3">Can2Can ended business operations on 26 August, 2012</h2>
<h3 class="c3">This site will remain up and the free downloads will remain for some time.</h3>
<h3 class="c3">I expect to add some other downloads that will be useful to website owners/developers</h3>
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| xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?
Can2Can
.
.
.
## Can2Can ended business operations on 26 August, 2012
### This site will remain up and the free downloads will remain for some time.
### I expect to add some other downloads that will be useful to website owners/developers
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
This Site
[Services](Content/WebFaq.html)
[Game Room](Content/Games.html)
[Contact](Content/Contact.html)
[Magazine](CanMag/EMag.html)
[DeskSet](Content/DeskSet.html)
[MIDI](Content/MidiIndex.html)
[Instrument suite](Content/MetaInstrument.html)
[Harvestman](Content/Spider/)
[Fish In Ear](Content/Fish/)
[Calculators](Content/Calculators.html)
[ePubs](Content/epub.html)
[SEO](Content/FreeSEO.html)
[Back](javascript:history.go(-1))
| Drawing of office |
Parked Sites
[IDEAS](AmericanWay.html)
[Sito's Bajoran](Sito/)
[Altairn Edwards](AE/)
[R W Edwards](pvtRWE/)
[Spoken Books](Job/)
[NotesPad](NotesPad/)
[Poetry](rjwhittlesy/)
[Apples and Oranges](Fruit/)
Other Sites
[Keyboards](http://KeyboardService.com/)
|
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#### Search Google Safe Browsing Stats.
URL
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[Add Can2Can Zoom Search provider](# "Can2Can supports OpenSearch auto-discovery mode, this is for any browsers that do not")
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<H2>Stokes Bay - Unknown Beach</H2>
<P>This was the first beach we found. We don't know if it's public or private or what. There were several other people
there; no toilets; no signs. The water was shallow and warm and the beach sandy.</P>
<A HREF="200_2115-6f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2115-6s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2115f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2115s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2116f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2116s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2117f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2117s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2148f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2148s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2154f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2154s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2165f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2165s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2169f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2169s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2170f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2170s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<H2>Stokes Bay - Black Creek Prov. Park Beach</H2>
<P>This place was hard to find; a local pointed us to it. The beach was nice; the water was warm and there was a mix of rock
and sand. The kids liked walking in the shallow rocky parts - although some rocks were slippery.</P>
<A HREF="200_2177f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2177s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2179f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2179s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2180f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2180s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2184f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2184s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2185f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2185s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<H2>Tobermory Harbor View</H2>
<A HREF="200_2199f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2199s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2201f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2201s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<H2>Tobermory National Park Tower View</H2>
<P>Pay your park fee and climb up the tower for a nice view. They have a new and quite nice visiter center that is quite good
for young kids.</P>
<A HREF="200_2210f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2210s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<BR>
<A HREF="200_2204-6f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2204-6s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2204f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2204s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2205f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2205s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2206f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2206s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2207f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2207s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2208f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2208s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<H2>Dorcas Bay - Singing Sands Beach</H2>
<P>This is an amazing beach if you like things shallow. The air was cool (21C) and windy but the water was warm.
Young kids have a hard time finding water as deep as their waist. The sand is soft and easy to dig in. Our only complaint
is the long walk from the parking lot to the shoar.<BR>
Some people even camped out on a sandbar.</P>
<A HREF="200_2211-13f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2211-13s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2211f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2211s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2212f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2212s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2213f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2213s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2215f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2215s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2216f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2216s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
<A HREF="200_2217f.jpg"><IMG SRC="thumb/200_2217s.jpg" ALT="(c)2006 Eric Praetzel"></A>
|
## Stokes Bay - Unknown Beach
This was the first beach we found. We don't know if it's public or private or what. There were several other people
there; no toilets; no signs. The water was shallow and warm and the beach sandy.
[](200_2115-6f.jpg)
[](200_2115f.jpg)
[](200_2116f.jpg)
[](200_2117f.jpg)
[](200_2148f.jpg)
[](200_2154f.jpg)
[](200_2165f.jpg)
[](200_2169f.jpg)
[](200_2170f.jpg)
## Stokes Bay - Black Creek Prov. Park Beach
This place was hard to find; a local pointed us to it. The beach was nice; the water was warm and there was a mix of rock
and sand. The kids liked walking in the shallow rocky parts - although some rocks were slippery.
[](200_2177f.jpg)
[](200_2179f.jpg)
[](200_2180f.jpg)
[](200_2184f.jpg)
[](200_2185f.jpg)
## Tobermory Harbor View
[](200_2199f.jpg)
[](200_2201f.jpg)
## Tobermory National Park Tower View
Pay your park fee and climb up the tower for a nice view. They have a new and quite nice visiter center that is quite good
for young kids.
[](200_2210f.jpg)
[](200_2204-6f.jpg)
[](200_2204f.jpg)
[](200_2205f.jpg)
[](200_2206f.jpg)
[](200_2207f.jpg)
[](200_2208f.jpg)
## Dorcas Bay - Singing Sands Beach
This is an amazing beach if you like things shallow. The air was cool (21C) and windy but the water was warm.
Young kids have a hard time finding water as deep as their waist. The sand is soft and easy to dig in. Our only complaint
is the long walk from the parking lot to the shoar.
Some people even camped out on a sandbar.
[](200_2211-13f.jpg)
[](200_2211f.jpg)
[](200_2212f.jpg)
[](200_2213f.jpg)
[](200_2215f.jpg)
[](200_2216f.jpg)
[](200_2217f.jpg)
| https://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/Ontario/Bruce-Peninsula.html |
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<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""></span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><font
size="5" face="Arial"><strong>Coming to America</strong></font><font
size="5"><b><o:p></o:p></b></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt">The making of Final Fantasy VII and how
Squaresoft conquered the RPG market<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Gek Siong Low<o:p></o:p></span><br clear="all"
style="mso-ignore:vglayout">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:Geksiong@cs.stanford.edu">geksiong@cs.stanford.edu<o:p></o:p></a><br><br>Spring 2001</span></p>
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<p align="center" class="MsoBodyText"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image001.gif" align="middle"
width="372" height="219" v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"">Disclaimer: I
have tried my best to find sources that are as reliable as
possible (press releases, interviews in published magazines, etc)
but many times I had to depend on third-party accounts of what
happened. Some of these accounts conflict with one another, so I
try to present as coherent an account of the history as I can
here. I do not claim that everything in this paper is true. With
that in mind, let us proceed on with the story…<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<hr width="50%">
<p style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<h1 style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"">Introduction<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:189.0pt;text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“[Final
Fantasy VII is]…quite possibly the greatest game ever
made.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
GameFan magazine, quote on back of Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">CD
case (Greatest Hits edition)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image003.gif"
alt="Final Fantasy VII CD cover art" align="left" hspace="12"
width="160" height="158" v:shapes="_x0000_s1029">The story of
Squaresoft’s success in the US video games market appears at
first glance to be like a fairy tale. Before Final Fantasy VII,
console-based role-playing games (RPGs) were still a niche
market, played only by a dedicated few who were willing to endure
the long wait for the few games to cross the Pacific and onto
American soil. Then came Final Fantasy VII in the September of
1997, wowing everybody with its amazing graphics, story and
gameplay. The game single-handedly lifted console-based RPGs out
of their little niche into the mainstream, selling millions of
copies worldwide, and made Squaresoft a household name in video
games.</p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">Today console-based RPGs are a major
industry, with players spoilt-for-choice on which RPG to buy
every Christmas. The time of the garage-made RPGs was over. Now
RPG development is an entire industry, with dedicated
storywriters, character designers and even actors. Even the
so-called “old-school” RPGs today sport the mandatory
full-motion video (FMV) sequences. In one swift earth-shattering
stroke, Squaresoft has altered the entire RPG scene forever. But
it was not all plain sailing…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">This paper
attempts to trace Squaresoft’s rocky road to the American
market and their eventual success with the release of Final
Fantasy VII, the processes and decisions that went into the
making of the game, and also takes a look at the future it
heralds. Squaresoft’s history reads more like an RPG story,
full of twists and turns, and bosses to battle. Its success in
the US console-based RPG market was no fluke. It was the
culmination of many years of hard work, a strong vision and
several failed attempts.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<h1 style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"">Lights, camera, action!</span><span style="font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:normal"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1 style="margin-left:.5in;text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-weight:normal">In the
beginning…</span><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></i></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:117.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“I just
went up [to the president of Squaresoft] and said, “I want
to do an RPG”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:117.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>He
said, “Is that good, is that interesting?” and I said,
“Yeah, it’s fun.” So he said, “Okay.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Hironobu Sakaguchi (quoted from The First Quarter by Steven Kent)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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alt="Square's offices in Tokyo, Japan" align="right" hspace="12"
width="156" height="197" v:shapes="_x0000_s1037">In 1987, a small
Japanese video game manufacturer named Square Co., Ltd. was in
need of a hit. Its games sold respectably, but a blockbuster game
remained elusive. Game designer Hironobu decided that he would
make an RPG, similar to Enix’s extremely popular Dragon
Quest, but he felt could vastly improve on the basic formula, and
revolutionize the genre. All of Squaresoft’s resources and
hopes were poured into the making of that one-megabit cartridge
game. Because Sakaguchi believed then that the game would be his
swan song as a game designer, he named it “Final
Fantasy”. But it was not meant to be his last effort. The
game turned out to be a huge success and kept the company in
business to produce a sequel.</p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><br clear="all" style="mso-ignore:vglayout">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Well, that was
just the beginning…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h1 style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"">Introducing the heroes<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1 style="margin-left:.5in;text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-weight:normal">The critical
people in the development team<o:p></o:p></span></i></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left:3.5in">“Strength
without determination means nothing, and determination without
strength is equally useless.”</p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">--
Godo Kusaragi, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image006.jpg"
alt="What is Mr Sakaguchi thinking about?" align="left"
hspace="12" width="125" height="138" v:shapes="_x0000_s1027"><b>Hironobu
Sakaguchi: Producer<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">Hironobu Sakaguchi is the visionary
behind the entire series. Ever since his success with Final
Fantasy I, he has been at the helm as the producer for all the
games in the series. Sakaguchi did not start out making RPGs.
Before Final Fantasy, he made games such as Rad Racer,
King’s Knight and World Runner at Square, all of which sold
respectably, but Sakaguchi was not satisfied with any of them. He
decided to switch genres and that turned out to be one of the
best decisions of his life.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Nobuo Uematsu: Music composer<img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image009.jpg"
alt="A happy Uematsu in the office" align="right" hspace="12"
width="195" height="190" v:shapes="_x0000_s1028"></h2>
<p>Referred to by some as the John Williams of the video game
world, Nobuo Uematsu has been the music composer for all the
games in the Final Fantasy series. Surprisingly, he has no formal
training in music. After college, he played the keyboard in
various bands and decided that he loved writing music than
playing it, and eventually got a job writing jingles for radio
commercials. In 1985, a friend working at Square asked Uematsu if
he wanted to write music for some of their video games and he
agreed. In his spare time he listens to Irish music, plays the
fiddle, and watches Japanese pro-wrestling.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2><img src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image010.gif"
alt="Kitase directs" align="left" hspace="12" width="96"
height="96" v:shapes="_x0000_s1030">Yoshinori Kitase: Director</h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Yoshinori Kitase
wanted to be a film director, but found it hard to achieve his
aspirations in the Japanese film industry. When Square began work
on Final Fantasy V, Kitase replaced Hiromichi Tanaka as the
director. It was an important change in the history of the
series, for the series quickly took on a more cinematic and
mature tone soon after Kitase came on board.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Bloopers and obstacles<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Why the earlier Final Fantasies
didn’t quite make it<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoHeader" style="tab-stops:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:148.5pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Yuffie:
“Cloud, sign this.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:148.5pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Cloud:
“What is it?”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent3"
style="margin-left:148.5pt;text-indent:0in">Yuffie: “It's a
contract that says when the war is over, the materia will belong
to me.”</p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--Yuffie
Kusaragi talking to Cloud on the Highwind, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">In the early days
of console-based RPGs, there was a general misconception that
American players were not sophisticated enough to play
complicated RPGs, preferring instead to play “simpler”
fighting or platform games. This was probably based on
observations that RPG games do not sell as well here as in Japan.
This has now changed for the better, but even today, we can still
sometimes see the legacy of this early perception in the way the
games are localized.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Final Fantasy I
was localized and released in July 1990 for the US market by
Nintendo after Final Fantasy III was released in Japan, and
surprisingly it actually sold more in the US than in Japan. Yet,
sadly for the fans, this success wasn’t enough to bring the
rest of the games over to the States. Nintendo of America felt
that Final Fantasy II was too similar to the first game to sell
well in the States, and neither did they decide to localize Final
Fantasy III.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">When Squaresoft
upgraded to the Super Famicom (SFC) with Final Fantasy IV, its
release in Japan in August 1991 wowed Japanese gamers with the
vastly improved graphics and sound. Nintendo released the
localized version for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System
(SNES) just three months later in November 1991, but it was a
dumb-downed version to make it “easier” for American
gamers, with many items, areas and even character skills removed.
In addition, it was horribly mangled by Nintendo’s
censorship. Swear words and references to sex and death were
removed, and even a “stripping” dancer (she kept her
last layer of clothing on) in the game was taken out. Nintendo
was extremely cautious not to offend the American market, perhaps
overly cautious. Many players were upset, but the game was still
fairly successful, although not as successful as it was in Japan.
Final Fantasy IV was released as Final Fantasy II in America,
starting a confusing naming game which was only resolved with the
arrival of Final Fantasy VII.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Nintendo was not
the only one to make mistakes. Squaresoft also made the same
mistake of viewing American players as being “simpler”
when they released Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in October 1992.
Specially tailored for the US market, it was a
“simplified” RPG meant to attract gamers who will then
later “graduate” to the regular Final Fantasies. The
game bombed. Players who had finished FFIV (FFII US) were still
fuming mad over the game, and along came this game to insult
their intelligence even more. To add to this indignation, FF
Mystic Quest was released in Japan later as “Final Fantasy
USA”, perpetuating the “dumb American”perception
even more.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image014.jpg"
alt="Squaresoft's offices in Costa Mesa, California"
align="right" hspace="12" width="321" height="186"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1053">Final Fantasy V, released in Japan in
December 1992, almost made it across the ocean. Squaresoft
announced that it would be Final Fantasy III in America, and even
started work on the English translation, but it was dropped for
unknown reasons. Speculations abound, including one that says
Squaresoft thought that the game would be too complex for US
gamers, and another one that hints at squabbles with Nintendo
over cartridge size. Anyway, the game was later announced for US
release again in 1995 by Squaresoft, and then again in 1997 by
Eidos, but both times gamers never saw the game. It eventually
arrived in 1999 as part of the Final Fantasy Anthology for the
Playstation. But that is another entire story unto itself, worthy
enough to be discussed separately some other time.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Final Fantasy III
for the US turned out to be Final Fantasy VI. Released in Japan
in April 1994 and later in America in October 1994, near the end
of the life of the SNES, FFVI squeezed out every ounce of
performance from the aging system. This was also the first game
in which we could see the clear guiding hand of director Kitase
towards a more dramatic and mature tone. Final Fantasy VI
addressed issues such as suicide and teen pregnancy, and handled
them in a mature manner. The game was very successful in the US
market, but still wasn’t able to break out of the RPG niche.
Squaresoft knew then that it was time to move on. To achieve a
breakthrough, a newer, more powerful console system was needed,
but that new console was not destined to be a Nintendo machine.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Final Boss Battle<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Fighting the Big N<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent">“You are just a puppet. You
have no heart and cannot feel any pain.”</p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII (flashback in Nilbelheim)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Despite the long
working relationship Squaresoft had with Nintendo, not everything
was well. Nintendo had an infamous reputation for exerting tight
control over the game makers and Squaresoft was no exception. In
addition to problems over censorship and localization, other
issues also contributed to the gradually souring relationship.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">In December 1991,
Squaresoft had to delay the release of Romancing SaGa (not
released in the US) into January 1992 because of bugs, but found
it impossible to fix the bugs due to a lack of cartridge memory.
Squaresoft requested Nintendo to allow them to use the new 12M
cartridge but was denied. Nintendo was reserving the cartridge
for the release of Enix’s Dragon Quest V. Squaresoft was
left with no choice but to take out parts of the game, including
a final boss scenario.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Also around then,
Squaresoft was developing Seiken Densetsu 2 (Secret of Mana) for
the Super Famicom CD-ROM system, but due to arguments between
Nintendo, Sony and Philips, the CD-ROM system was scrapped.
Squaresoft was forced to downsize the game to fit onto a
cartridge, and the result was lots of bugs.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">And there was
September 1995, when Squaresoft decided to reduce the production
of their games, and was almost hauled off to court for
“breaking the rules”. Squaresoft realized then that
Nintendo’s approach to marketing was not for them.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Finally, there
was Super Mario RPG, which Squaresoft developed jointly with
Nintendo. It was originally supposed to be a Squaresoft release,
but Nintendo took over at the last minute, and it became a
Nintendo release. Nintendo complained that Squaresoft rushed the
development of the game, and things never looked worse between
the two companies.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Plot twists<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Squaresoft’s defection to
Sony<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.75in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“Looks
like Kya ha ha ha and Gya ha ha ha are up to something
again.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Cait Sith, talking about Scarlet and Heidegger <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">on
the Highwind, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">When Squaresoft
found out that the next-generation Nintendo 64 Disk Drive would
not be a CD-ROM system but was going to be yet another
cartridge-based system, they decided it was time to move on. In
1996, Squaresoft suddenly announced that they were leaving
Nintendo and defecting over to Sony, and that the Final Fantasy
VII would be released for the Sony Playstation console, a less
powerful 3D console than the Nintendo 64 but which uses CD-ROMs.
The news shocked the industry, although it was already known by
industry watchers for some time that Squaresoft was planning to
leave Nintendo. Thus was finally ended Squaresoft’s 10-year
long relationship with Nintendo. Sony’s CD-ROM system
provided Squaresoft with the freedom and capacity it needed to
make the next-generation Final Fantasy games without worrying
about cartridge sizes.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">At that time the
Sega Saturn console was very popular in Japan, with a huge
library of games. But Squaresoft decided, for unknown reasons, to
go with Sony instead. It was even more surprising considering
that Shiochiro Irimajiri, the president of Sega, and Tomoyuki
Takechi, president of Squaresoft, grew up in the same city and
are childhood friends.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">It has been rumored that Sony gave
Squaresoft a discount in the production cost for their CD-ROMs.
Furthermore, Sony was willing to support Square’s
independent marketing company, Digicube. By mid-March, Nintendo
dumped all their Square stocks, which were bought up by Sony. In
December 1996, Sony Computer Entertainment America agreed to a
multi-title publishing deal with Square Co., Ltd., allowing the
company full North American publishing and distribution rights to
Square's 1997 PlayStation product line.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The impact on
Nintendo was great. Soon after Squaresoft’s defection, Enix
followed suit, taking along with them their Dragon Quest series.
The loss of the two most popular RPGs in Japan left Nintendo
reeling from the blow, and for a long time after that, there were
no RPGs on the Nintendo platform. Many RPG players converted to
the Playstation together with Squaresoft and Enix.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">At the 1997
Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3), Sony's Phil Harrison made
this argument against Nintendo using Final Fantasy VII:
“FFVII, with three CD-ROMs, would weigh in at 1.8GB of data.
There's no way that any Nintendo cartridge-based system could
cram that much data into one game.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">George Harrison
of Nintendo responded that he didn't care about Final Fantasy
VII, because “most of our customers wouldn't want or
appreciate such a slow and tedious game such as Final Fantasy
VII.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Squaresoft’s
relationship with Nintendo remains touchy even to this day. The
split was so bitter that even after Nintendo re-established
relations with Namco in 1999, Yamauchi, president of Nintendo,
still refused to consider working with Squaresoft. When asked
about if Nintendo would allow Squaresoft to publish games for
their upcoming GameCube console, Minoru Arakawa of Nintendo
replied, “I don’t think it is yet time for
Squaresoft.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Gimme enough gil and I can create miracles…<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">The development budget<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.5in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“These
days, all it takes for your dreams to come true is money and
power.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
President Shinra, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Work on Final
Fantasy VII began in early 1996. The development budget for Final
Fantasy VII was reported to be a whopping US$45 million. Never
before had so much money gone into the making of an RPG. Over a
hundred artists worked on producing the most amazing computer
graphics ever seen in a video game. Beautifully rendered
full-motion video (FMV) sequences were woven directly into the
gameplay, and the game played out pretty much like a movie.
Pre-rendered backdrops graced the screen throughout the entire
game world.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image016.jpg"
alt="One of the many eye-popping CG movies in Final Fantasy VII"
align="left" hspace="12" width="256" height="192"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1031">It was a very radical thing to do. The
conventional wisdom then was that RPGs were all about fighting
monsters and leveling up – graphics was not seen as an
important factor. Squaresoft believed otherwise, and thought that
graphics would appeal to a much wider audience. They took a huge
gamble with the production budget and proved that their intuition
was right. They also showed that a Hollywood-sized budget can in
fact for an RPG, and raised the status of RPGs away from the
perception that RPGs were made by a few guys tinkering around in
a garage.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Final Fantasy VII
was the first game in the series to use developers on both sides
of the Pacific. The main game engine was developed at the
Japanese offices of Squaresoft, supervised by Hironobu Sakaguchi,
while the impressive video sequences were created at the new and
expensive offices of Square USA in Honolulu, Hawaii. Squaresoft
fully took advantage of the many talented and experienced
computer animators and powerful computers this side of the
Pacific.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Where are the fighters and mages?<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Gameplay design<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent">“Just when you thought he was
smart, he'd go off and do some damned fool thing.”</p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Cid Highwind, talking about Cloud, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">But FMVs do not
make an RPG. The focus on making breathtaking movie sequences
didn’t mean that Squaresoft stopped being concerned with the
player experience. Every new Final Fantasy has to have something
new in terms of gameplay, and in Final Fantasy VII that
innovation was the materia system.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">In a way, the
development of the materia system could be seen as a
“natural” combination of FFV’s Job system, and
FFVI’s Relic system and Esper magic system. Still, Final
Fantasy VII was to be a completely whole new experience that
breaks away from the traditional RPG mold of fighters and mages,
and the materia system was designed exactly to do just that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The battle system
didn’t change much. Final Fantasy VII still kept pretty much
the Active-Time Battle system introduced since FFIV. What was
changed was the way magic is used in the game. The
character-specific classes and abilities from the previous games
were scrapped and replaced with a classless character development
system. Any character can use any spell as long as the
appropriate materia (little orbs of condensed magical energy) is
currently equipped on a weapon or armor, and the strength of the
spell does not depend on the character abilities. Other
characters can “train” the materia and transfer it to
other characters depending on the situation. Furthermore,
different combinations of materia can have various added side
effects. This system allowed for a whole lot of freedom and
strategy in character customization, and completely eliminated
the problem of the limited usefulness of healer classes in
traditional class-based RPGs.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Spiky hair is good<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Character design practicalities<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.0in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“Oh!
Cloud! Your hair looks like a Chocobo!”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Tifa Lockheart, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">(bird’s
nest on the Corel Train tracks) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image017.jpg"
alt="Tetsuya Nomura, character designer" align="left" hspace="12"
width="146" height="201" v:shapes="_x0000_s1036">Previous games
in the series used the character designs of Yoshitaka Amano, a
well-respected artist from outside the industry. However, with
Final Fantasy VII, Square found that it was impossible to
recreate Amano’s flowing style in their 3D polygonal models.
They decided to abandon Amano’s exquisite designs and found
Nomura to take over as the chief character artist. As a more
traditional manga-styled artist, Nomura’s designs were much
more easily adapted to the 3D platform, and looked just as
attractive. This manga-inspired design is most evident in main
protagonist Cloud Strife’s spiky hair. Amano worked on the
world maps. This change in style in Final Fantasy VII was also
fitting in that it was in line with Square’s leap into a
completely new platform. Nomura stayed on as the character artist
for Final Fantasy VIII. For Final Fantasy IX, Amano made a
comeback as character artist because Square wanted the game to
encompass all the previous Final Fantasies and to “go back
to its roots.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image019.jpg"
alt="Imagine what would happen if Cloud was a little shorter..."
align="right" hspace="12" width="256" height="192"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1032">As for why Final Fantasy VII broke away
from the super-deformed characters (so called because they are
usually two heads tall), Sakaguchi has an interesting story to
tell. In an interview for the Japanese Famitsu magazine in early
2000, he revealed that FFVII did in fact have shorter characters
about four heads tall in the early planning stages. However, they
quickly realized that trying to animate a character wielding a
big sword in 3D results in him stabbing himself in the forehead,
so the characters were made even taller. The more realistically
proportioned characters in FFVII thus appear to be more the
result of practical 3D animation than from any desire to go for a
“realistic” look.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Music takes a back seat<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Why the music is not digitally
sampled<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent2"><i>“I don't think there is
meaning to using sampling to mimic real instruments. If I were to
use sampling, I would like to use it in a hip-hop kind of way. I
think we're in the midst of a transition from synthesized game
music to recorded game music right now.”<o:p></o:p></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Nobuo Uetmatsu, in an interview about FF8<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">At a time when
most games employed the use of Red book (audio CD) format for the
game music, Final Fantasy VII surprisingly uses synthesized MIDI
from the Playstation’s internal sound chip. When asked about
this during a 1997 interview, composer Uematsu revealed that
recorded sound takes time to read whereas sound chips don’t.
It also allowed the music to change smoothly and quickly without
pause. The objective, Uematsu said, was that he did not want
players to feel stress.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image022.jpg"
alt="FFVII Original Soundtrack cover art" align="right"
hspace="12" width="253" height="226" v:shapes="_x0000_s1045">There
was, of course, the other reason that recorded music consumes
more CPU cycles that could otherwise be used to speed up the 3D
engine. Even the sound effects were not pre-recorded, but are
“chirpy” sound effects generated by the
Playstation’s builti-in sound chip. Using synthesized MIDI
is very typical of the Final Fantasy games. Later games (FFVIII
and FFIX) still employ the same synthesized sounds, even though
other RPGs used recorded music. There were actually ideas to use
a famous vocalist to sing a song for the ending of FFVII, but the
team couldn’t come up with a good reason to do it, so the
mandatory pop song didn’t appear in the series until Final
Fantasy VIII.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image025.jpg"
alt="Cover art of the FFVII "Reunion" soundtrack. Note the Digicube logo on the top-left corner"
align="left" hspace="12" width="241" height="212"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1044">There was one exception to the
synthesized formula in FFVII however. The final boss battle with
Sephiroth uses Latin chants layered over the MIDI theme. Uematsu
refused to say if that is pre-recorded music. My educated guess
is that it is most probably done using some kind of wave-table
synthesis, since the chants are basically short samples of sound.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Uematsu started
composing the music after the story was written, but changes to
the game were frequent, even late into the development process.
The entire FFVII score took a total of 8 months to compose. Over
a hundred tunes were written and to Uematsu’s credit as a
master composer, the FFVII soundtrack hit the top of the Japanese
charts after the soundtrack was released.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Let’s just kill Aeris…<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Drama is everything<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.5in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“Then I'll
be going now. I'll come back when it's all over.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Aeris' last words, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">(in
Cloud's vision/dream at the Forgotten City) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">It is also
interesting and surprising to note that, despite all the caution
over the gameplay elements and how music should not impact the
gameplay, the developers were extremely amenable to dramatic
changes in the story.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image027.jpg"
alt="Aeris' death shocked and saddened many players all over the world"
align="right" hspace="12" width="256" height="179"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1047">Perhaps the most dramatic change to the
story was the death of Aeris, a main character. It was probably
the most poignant and memorable moment in any RPG story ever
written. Players were said to have mourned for days, or even wept
when Aeris died, although major characters die all the time in
all the Final Fantasies. It would come as a surprise to many
players to learn that Aeris death was not in the original story,
and that the reason she died was the result of a simple phone
call.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">In a book “Final Fantasy VII Kaitai
Shinsho”, Nomura was quoted, “Actually, we only had
Aerith (the original Japanese name for Aeris) at the beginning,
and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the
director Mr. Kitase and suggested 'Let's kill Aerith and put in
Tifa' (laughs). So now we have two heroines, and we have an event
where one of them dies."</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Yes, the truth
can sometimes be cruel. There was obviously no intention on the
part of Nomura to resurrect Aeris later. It was definitely not
something that was left out of the game due to time and space
constraints.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Still, players
hoped for a “better” ending, and for quite a while a
rumor circulated online that Aeris could be resurrected. It all
started with a post on a newsgroup by an American player who
played the Japanese game and completely misunderstood a scene at
the end of the second disk to mean a failed resurrection of
Aeris. Then somebody who went by the name of “Ben
Lansing” saw the post and decided to post on the newsgroups
claiming that he was a translator at Square USA during the
production of the game, and had inside knowledge on how Aeris
could be revived. He supported his claims with the supposed
changes made to the US version of the game, such as the
Underwater materia and the new FMV sequence which he said was
that of Aeris’ resurrection (it was actually for the Diamond
Weapon monster). He also pointed to many places in the game where
the relevance to the story was unclear (such as the sick man in
Midgar) which he wove into his elaborate instructions for the
revival process. The whole story was too complicated to describe
in detail here, but the release of the American version finally
revealed many of his claims to be false. Despite many
inconsistencies in his claims, many people believed him, and
there were even staunch supporters who claimed to have
successfully revived Aeris using his instructions. Anyway,
“Ben Lansing” eventually posted that the whole thing
was just a hoax, and laughed at the general stupidity of American
players.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Hoaxes and rumors
are common for every video game, but it is quite amusing to see
how such an impromptu and innocent change in the story can have
such a huge impact on the players, sparking off such a chain of
events.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Down with the censors! Off course!<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Translation woes finally solved?<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.0in;text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“…Hmm.
That’s how you’ll fool them”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">(outside
the HoneyBee Inn)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Squaresoft’s
breakaway from Nintendo had one advantage – it was no longer
at the mercy of Nintendo’s strict censorship rules. It did
not mean that neither Sony nor Squaresoft would not censor the
games though. Sony did in fact consider if the American version
of the game should be “modified” from the Japanese
version, but strong user feedback made Sony release the game
uncut, for the very first time, in the US. Even the vulgar words
were kept intact in the translation. Sony’s willingness to
listen to the players meant that RPG players could finally get to
enjoy unadulterated games. It was a win-win situation.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">However, an
uncensored work does not mean that the localization is
necessarily better. Final Fantasy VII didn’t fare that much
better than other games in the genre in the English translation.
There was the occasional incoherent dialog. Many words were
misspelled, such as the “Off-course!” in the Gold
Saucer Battle Arena. In some cases, some instances of a word were
missed during the translation, leading to confusing scenes. One
example is when the player tries to feed the white chocobo in
Mideel and the character asks if it wants “Samolen
Greens” which doesn’t exist. However, choosing to feed
the chocobo results in a “Mimett Greens” being
consumed. The original Japanese name was “Mimetto”, so
it is a mystery how that could translate into “Samolen
Greens.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Some translations
were made for purely aesthetic reasons, but players tend to be
really picky about what is aesthetic and what is not. I have also
found many gripes about the translation of certain terms, such as
“Gold Needle” becoming “Soft”, where the
player said was unnecessary because the original term would have
fit in English. However, I could see that the motivation behind
some of these translations was differences in culture, and the
changes were made for greater clarity to American gamers.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">Still, Final Fantasy VII’s
translation was better than many other RPGs that came before.
Translation will always be an issue with the players, and I
don’t see it going away anytime soon. It was said that
Squaresoft did not have enough time to translate and correct all
the mistakes before the US release date, and that the typos would
be fixed in the later PC version, but I have no way of verifying
that. Anyway, it should be noted that Final Fantasy VIII and the
later games appeared to have much less of a problem with
localization.</p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"> </p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">So money do not quite make miracles<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Is the story complete?<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:189.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Barret:
“What's going to happen to Midgar? We can't let that
happen!”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:189.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Red XIII:
“Forget Midgar, we've gotta worry about the Planet.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Barret Wallace & Red XIII, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">Overall, the development of the game was
pretty rushed. Squaresoft actually had less time to work on Final
Fantasy VII than it had with the previous games, according to
their initial projected schedule. The release date was pushed
back from December 1996 to January 1997, and the game was
expanded from the originally announced 2-disk set to span 3
disks. Many changes were also made late in the development
process. I have already mentioned the last-minute addition of
Tifa to the story. Another late character was, surprisingly,
Sephiroth the main villain, who was revealed to be in the story
much later.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Nobuo Uematsu
himself admits in the liner notes for the FFVII soundtrack that
“There is one thing common in all the Final Fantasy games.
None of them are complete.” (except for his music, that is).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Aeris’ death
was not what made Final Fantasy VII incomplete. Rather, it was
the fact that Squaresoft felt compelled to make all those changes
to the US version of the game, including a clarification and
tightening of the storyline, which was pretty vague in the
Japanese version. The game was obviously incomplete, for
otherwise Squaresoft would have been content with a direct
translation.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Changes to the US
version include the addition of the Weapon monsters, new FMV
sequences that showcase the Diamond Weapon and a much longer
Sephiroth summons animation sequence. Some weapons, for example,
Yuffie’s Rising Sun, were put back into the US version, and
some items such as the Guide Book (necessary to get the
Underwater materia for fighting the Emerald Weapon) were also
added.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The US changes
also introduced several bugs, of which the most well-known was
probably the bug where you can duplicate an item infinitely many
times given the right button presses and that you have the W-Item
materia. Improvements to the gameplay were also made. For
example, materia can be exchanged more easily in the US version
than in the Japanese version.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Even with the
additions to the US version, many plans still didn’t make it
into the game. One of them was that Final Fantasy VII was in fact
intended to have multiple endings for the multiple characters
Yuffie and Vincent.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>According to Nomura in an interview for
the Japanese GameFan magazine, he said, “Because to have
included [Yuffie and Vincent], we would have to make four
different endings and we were constrained by the space on the CD,
so we decided not to include them.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">Another reason for the incompleteness of
the game as given by some players was that there are many
materia, weapons and items that were either disabled or removed,
although I wouldn’t say that it is a compelling argument for
the incompleteness of the game.</p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Whatever the
arguments and speculations were, Squaresoft did try their best to
make as complete a game as possible. As Sakaguchi himself said in
an interview once, “Final Fantasy VII was completed to the
best of our ability and funding.”</p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Victory! Gained 10000000 EXP and 1000000 GIL<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Success in the marketplace<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“If this
is all a dream, don't wake me up.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image030.jpg"
alt="FFVII Japanese version cover art" align="right" hspace="12"
width="215" height="168" v:shapes="_x0000_s1050">Incomplete or
not, Final Fantasy VII was shipped in Japan on January 31, 1997.
It became an overnight sensation, with 2.3 million copies snapped
up in just 3 days. For the US, however, more work was needed to
really open up the market.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Sony spared no
expense in marketing Final Fantasy VII in the US, allocating a
budget of up to US$100 million just for marketing alone. Three
30-second commercials were made highlighting the graphics and
gameplay and aired on prime-time slots on all the major networks.
There were also major print campaigns in popular publications
such as Rolling Stone, Spin and even Playboy, and the gaming
magazines. Sony even teamed up with Pepsi for a major holiday
promotion featuring the game.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Customers who
bought a Playstation console in September 1997 received a disk
containing a demo of the game and previews of other
yet-to-be-released Squaresoft titles. Other gimmicks include
limited edition FFVII T-shirts and pre-paid phone cards to
Sony’s hint line, “just in case [gamers] get stuck in
the game.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The extensive
marketing campaign paid off handsomely. Hundreds of thousands of
consumers throughout the country reserved a copy of the game,
months before its release. Retail outlets nationwide broke the
official North American September 7 release date, eager to
satisfy the overwhelming consumer demand for Final Fantasy VII.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image033.jpg"
alt="One of the many FFVII figurines" align="left" hspace="12"
width="198" height="153" v:shapes="_x0000_s1048">"Final
Fantasy VII's success in North America has surpassed our original
sales expectations and with the holidays steadily approaching,
this is only the beginning,” said Andrew House, VP
marketing, Sony Computer Entertainment America, in a news article
on December 4, 1997. He continues, “the sales success
reported from our retailers to date is proving that an expansive
variety of video game players are buying Final Fantasy VII.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">And then there
was the merchandise. Many players went on to buy Final Fantasy
VII models, posters, soundtracks. Sprite-based characters in the
previous games do not transform well into toy figurines. The move
to 3D opened up new possibilities for RPGs. It’s no longer
just about making the game. Every release of a major Squaresoft
game now comes with a full assortment of merchandise.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image037.jpg"
alt="FFVII International version cover art" align="right"
hspace="12" width="259" height="201" v:shapes="_x0000_s1049">Squaresoft
finally managed to crack the US market. Altogether, over 6
million copies of Final Fantasy VII were sold worldwide. Final
Fantasy VII proved that everybody would love RPGs if given the
chance. In addition, a special FFVII International edition was
released in Japan so that Japanese gamers could savor the
additional FMVs made for the US version. The game was also ported
over to the PC platform. Released in June 1998, it featured
better graphics that took advantage of better PC hardware,
bringing the game onto the desktops of non-console gamers.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Opening up new worlds<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">Toward Hollywood<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.0in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“You can't
give up now! There ain't no gettin' off of this train we
on!”</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt">--
Barret Wallace, Final Fantasy VII <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Final Fantasy VII
revolutionized the look and feel of console RPGs. It was going to
be the first of many “cinematic RPGs”, a term which
Square came up with to describe their Parasite Eve game, so
called because the FMV sequences are an integral part of the
storytelling. In the old-school style of RPGs, FMVs (if any) were
used primarily as cut-scenes to reward the player after having
achieved a certain quest. Today RPG players are split into two
main camps – one group favoring the gameplay and character
development aspects, detesting the gratuitous “eye
candy” and whining about the direction the industry seems to
be taking, the other group favoring the graphics and
storytelling, and who dislike the need for constantly leveling-up
the characters.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image039.jpg"
alt="Square's offices in Honolulu, Hawaii" align="left"
hspace="12" width="193" height="265" v:shapes="_x0000_s1051">In
FFVII’s footsteps came many other similar Squaresoft
releases. Square took the term “cinematic” to new
heights with the release of FF8, which used almost true-to-life
3D characters to tell the story, which was interestingly, a love
story. Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story merged gameplay and drama
together seamlessly. There were many wannabes and copycats too.
Sony, after seeing the tremendous of Final Fantasy VII, released
their very own Legend of Dragoon game, which garnered mixed
reactions from the players, because of the over-emphasis on
graphics rather than the story.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Squaresoft is not
resting on its laurels. It did not simply sit back and churn out
more Final Fantasy VII’s. With each new game came new
innovations, daring risks. Perhaps the most daring risk
Squaresoft is taking now is their production of a full-length,
fully computer-graphics animated Final Fantasy movie, The Spirits
Within, due to be released in the theaters in the summer of 2001.
It was a logical step in line with the cinematic direction the
series is taking. The movie is being produced at Square’s
Honolulu Studios, the computer graphics powerhouse that produced
all the FMV sequences for Final Fantasy VII and later.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText2">This is not the first time a game has
made the leap to the silver screen. Nintendo’s failed
attempts at the Mario movie comes to mind instantly, and there
were many others too. What are so special about Squaresoft’s
endeavor are that the story will be completely new and not based
on any of the previous games, and that the computer-rendered
animation will blow everyone away. So far, only 17 minutes of the
movie have been revealed to a lucky few and the general consensus
is that it is fantastic. It is definitely not like the horribly
animated 3D cartoons shown on Saturday morning TV. If you think
Final Fantasy VIII was fantastic, then you should see what they
could do in the movie.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Final Fantasy?<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<h2 style="margin-left:.5in"><i><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:
normal">The future<o:p></o:p></span></i></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.75in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt">“...she
smiled till the end.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText3"><span style="font-style:normal">-- Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoHeader" style="tab-stops:.5in"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image042.jpg"
alt="A scene from the upcoming Final Fantasy movie, The Spirits Within"
align="right" hspace="12" width="291" height="156"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1052">This is an exciting time in the history
of video games. We are seeing a merger between the video games
and movie industry, and Squaresoft is at the forefront of the
revolution. With the huge amounts of money pouring into the Final
Fantasy movie, its performance at the box office this summer can
make or break the company. And with the surprisingly low profiles
of Final Fantasy IX and X, one can’t help but wonder if
Squaresoft might have been sticking their necks too far out.
However, regardless of whether Squaresoft achieves success at the
big screen, what is certain is that the revolution has already
begun. Squaresoft has blazed the trail for future game developers
to follow, and many will.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">We will always
look back at Final Fantasy VII as the game that started it all,
the one game that proved beyond a doubt that big budgets and RPGs
do mix well, that RPGs are not just about getting lost in
dungeons and slaying monsters, and that everybody loves a good
story anytime. It also paved the way for other smaller RPGs to do
well in America. Final Fantasy VII was indeed an important
milestone in RPG development. No one really knows what the future
may bring to Squaresoft, but here’s hoping that Squaresoft
will succeed in all their future endeavors, that we will continue
seeing more wonderful games (and movies) from the company, and
may none of the Final Fantasies be the final one!</p>
<p> </p>
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"><b>THE
END?<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> </p>
<hr width="50%">
<p> </p>
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">References<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Web sites</h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">GameSpot’s
“The History of Final Fantasy”<span style="mso-tab-count:2">
</span><a href="http://www.gamespot.com/">http://www.gamespot.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">GameFAQs<span style="mso-tab-count:
6">
</span><a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/">http://www.gamefaqs.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">IGN (Playstation
section)<span style="mso-tab-count:4">
</span><a href="http://psx.ign.com/">http://psx.ign.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The Gaming
Intelligence Agency<span style="mso-tab-count:3">
</span><a href="http://www.thegia.com/">http://www.thegia.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">FF Legacy<span style="mso-tab-count:
6">
</span><a href="http://www.fflegacy.com/">http://www.fflegacy.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">FF: Worlds Apart<span style="mso-tab-count:5">
</span><a href="http://www.ffnet.net/">http://www.ffnet.net</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">The Ultimate
Nobuo Uematsu Fan Page<span style="mso-tab-count:2">
</span><a href="http://www.nobuouematsu.com/">http://www.nobuouematsu.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">And many other
web pages which I don’t remember</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Newsgroups</h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Final Fantasy FAQ
on alt.games.final-fantasy</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Books</h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">Steven L. Kent, <i>The
First Quarter: A 25-year History of Video Games<o:p></o:p></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<hr width="50%">
<h2><span style="font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">About the author<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><img
src="Squaresoft%20and%20FF7_files/image044.jpg" align="left"
hspace="12" width="102" height="132" v:shapes="_x0000_s1062">Gek
Siong Low is a Masters candidate in Computer Science,
specializing in Human-Computer Interaction, at Stanford
University. He got his Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical
Engineering and Computer Science from the University of
California at Berkeley. Scanning his email messages one day, he
noticed a new class, STS145. “Hmm, history of computer
games, now that looks interesting…” and asked his
adviser if he could take the class. His adviser approved and this
is how this paper came to be.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">In his spare
time, Gek plays the classical guitar, watches too much Japanese
anime and reads manga. He completed Final Fantasy VII during the
last winter break (finally!) and still gets to play the
occasional video game. An RPG gamer who can’t seem to play
well at anything else (except for turn-based strategy games), he
plays Squaresoft games almost exclusively and has collected quite
a number of Squaresoft titles. He hopes that one day somebody
will write a book on the complete history of Squaresoft.</p>
</span></body>
</html>
|
Coming to America: The Story of Final Fantasy VII and how Squaresoft conquered the RPG market
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**Coming to America**
The making of Final Fantasy VII and how
Squaresoft conquered the RPG market
Gek Siong Low
[geksiong@cs.stanford.edu](mailto:Geksiong@cs.stanford.edu)
Spring 2001
*Disclaimer: I
have tried my best to find sources that are as reliable as
possible (press releases, interviews in published magazines, etc)
but many times I had to depend on third-party accounts of what
happened. Some of these accounts conflict with one another, so I
try to present as coherent an account of the history as I can
here. I do not claim that everything in this paper is true. With
that in mind, let us proceed on with the story…*
---
# Introduction
*“[Final
Fantasy VII is]…quite possibly the greatest game ever
made.”*
--
GameFan magazine, quote on back of Final Fantasy VII
CD
case (Greatest Hits edition)
The story of
Squaresoft’s success in the US video games market appears at
first glance to be like a fairy tale. Before Final Fantasy VII,
console-based role-playing games (RPGs) were still a niche
market, played only by a dedicated few who were willing to endure
the long wait for the few games to cross the Pacific and onto
American soil. Then came Final Fantasy VII in the September of
1997, wowing everybody with its amazing graphics, story and
gameplay. The game single-handedly lifted console-based RPGs out
of their little niche into the mainstream, selling millions of
copies worldwide, and made Squaresoft a household name in video
games.
Today console-based RPGs are a major
industry, with players spoilt-for-choice on which RPG to buy
every Christmas. The time of the garage-made RPGs was over. Now
RPG development is an entire industry, with dedicated
storywriters, character designers and even actors. Even the
so-called “old-school” RPGs today sport the mandatory
full-motion video (FMV) sequences. In one swift earth-shattering
stroke, Squaresoft has altered the entire RPG scene forever. But
it was not all plain sailing…
This paper
attempts to trace Squaresoft’s rocky road to the American
market and their eventual success with the release of Final
Fantasy VII, the processes and decisions that went into the
making of the game, and also takes a look at the future it
heralds. Squaresoft’s history reads more like an RPG story,
full of twists and turns, and bosses to battle. Its success in
the US console-based RPG market was no fluke. It was the
culmination of many years of hard work, a strong vision and
several failed attempts.
---
# Lights, camera, action!
# *In the
beginning…*
*“I just
went up [to the president of Squaresoft] and said, “I want
to do an RPG”*
*He
said, “Is that good, is that interesting?” and I said,
“Yeah, it’s fun.” So he said, “Okay.”*
--
Hironobu Sakaguchi (quoted from The First Quarter by Steven Kent)
In 1987, a small
Japanese video game manufacturer named Square Co., Ltd. was in
need of a hit. Its games sold respectably, but a blockbuster game
remained elusive. Game designer Hironobu decided that he would
make an RPG, similar to Enix’s extremely popular Dragon
Quest, but he felt could vastly improve on the basic formula, and
revolutionize the genre. All of Squaresoft’s resources and
hopes were poured into the making of that one-megabit cartridge
game. Because Sakaguchi believed then that the game would be his
swan song as a game designer, he named it “Final
Fantasy”. But it was not meant to be his last effort. The
game turned out to be a huge success and kept the company in
business to produce a sequel.
Well, that was
just the beginning…
---
# Introducing the heroes
# *The critical
people in the development team*
“Strength
without determination means nothing, and determination without
strength is equally useless.”
--
Godo Kusaragi, Final Fantasy VII
**Hironobu
Sakaguchi: Producer**
Hironobu Sakaguchi is the visionary
behind the entire series. Ever since his success with Final
Fantasy I, he has been at the helm as the producer for all the
games in the series. Sakaguchi did not start out making RPGs.
Before Final Fantasy, he made games such as Rad Racer,
King’s Knight and World Runner at Square, all of which sold
respectably, but Sakaguchi was not satisfied with any of them. He
decided to switch genres and that turned out to be one of the
best decisions of his life.
## Nobuo Uematsu: Music composerA happy Uematsu in the office
Referred to by some as the John Williams of the video game
world, Nobuo Uematsu has been the music composer for all the
games in the Final Fantasy series. Surprisingly, he has no formal
training in music. After college, he played the keyboard in
various bands and decided that he loved writing music than
playing it, and eventually got a job writing jingles for radio
commercials. In 1985, a friend working at Square asked Uematsu if
he wanted to write music for some of their video games and he
agreed. In his spare time he listens to Irish music, plays the
fiddle, and watches Japanese pro-wrestling.
## Kitase directsYoshinori Kitase: Director
Yoshinori Kitase
wanted to be a film director, but found it hard to achieve his
aspirations in the Japanese film industry. When Square began work
on Final Fantasy V, Kitase replaced Hiromichi Tanaka as the
director. It was an important change in the history of the
series, for the series quickly took on a more cinematic and
mature tone soon after Kitase came on board.
---
## Bloopers and obstacles
## *Why the earlier Final Fantasies
didn’t quite make it*
*Yuffie:
“Cloud, sign this.”*
*Cloud:
“What is it?”*
Yuffie: “It's a
contract that says when the war is over, the materia will belong
to me.”
--Yuffie
Kusaragi talking to Cloud on the Highwind, Final Fantasy VII
In the early days
of console-based RPGs, there was a general misconception that
American players were not sophisticated enough to play
complicated RPGs, preferring instead to play “simpler”
fighting or platform games. This was probably based on
observations that RPG games do not sell as well here as in Japan.
This has now changed for the better, but even today, we can still
sometimes see the legacy of this early perception in the way the
games are localized.
Final Fantasy I
was localized and released in July 1990 for the US market by
Nintendo after Final Fantasy III was released in Japan, and
surprisingly it actually sold more in the US than in Japan. Yet,
sadly for the fans, this success wasn’t enough to bring the
rest of the games over to the States. Nintendo of America felt
that Final Fantasy II was too similar to the first game to sell
well in the States, and neither did they decide to localize Final
Fantasy III.
When Squaresoft
upgraded to the Super Famicom (SFC) with Final Fantasy IV, its
release in Japan in August 1991 wowed Japanese gamers with the
vastly improved graphics and sound. Nintendo released the
localized version for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System
(SNES) just three months later in November 1991, but it was a
dumb-downed version to make it “easier” for American
gamers, with many items, areas and even character skills removed.
In addition, it was horribly mangled by Nintendo’s
censorship. Swear words and references to sex and death were
removed, and even a “stripping” dancer (she kept her
last layer of clothing on) in the game was taken out. Nintendo
was extremely cautious not to offend the American market, perhaps
overly cautious. Many players were upset, but the game was still
fairly successful, although not as successful as it was in Japan.
Final Fantasy IV was released as Final Fantasy II in America,
starting a confusing naming game which was only resolved with the
arrival of Final Fantasy VII.
Nintendo was not
the only one to make mistakes. Squaresoft also made the same
mistake of viewing American players as being “simpler”
when they released Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in October 1992.
Specially tailored for the US market, it was a
“simplified” RPG meant to attract gamers who will then
later “graduate” to the regular Final Fantasies. The
game bombed. Players who had finished FFIV (FFII US) were still
fuming mad over the game, and along came this game to insult
their intelligence even more. To add to this indignation, FF
Mystic Quest was released in Japan later as “Final Fantasy
USA”, perpetuating the “dumb American”perception
even more.
Final Fantasy V, released in Japan in
December 1992, almost made it across the ocean. Squaresoft
announced that it would be Final Fantasy III in America, and even
started work on the English translation, but it was dropped for
unknown reasons. Speculations abound, including one that says
Squaresoft thought that the game would be too complex for US
gamers, and another one that hints at squabbles with Nintendo
over cartridge size. Anyway, the game was later announced for US
release again in 1995 by Squaresoft, and then again in 1997 by
Eidos, but both times gamers never saw the game. It eventually
arrived in 1999 as part of the Final Fantasy Anthology for the
Playstation. But that is another entire story unto itself, worthy
enough to be discussed separately some other time.
Final Fantasy III
for the US turned out to be Final Fantasy VI. Released in Japan
in April 1994 and later in America in October 1994, near the end
of the life of the SNES, FFVI squeezed out every ounce of
performance from the aging system. This was also the first game
in which we could see the clear guiding hand of director Kitase
towards a more dramatic and mature tone. Final Fantasy VI
addressed issues such as suicide and teen pregnancy, and handled
them in a mature manner. The game was very successful in the US
market, but still wasn’t able to break out of the RPG niche.
Squaresoft knew then that it was time to move on. To achieve a
breakthrough, a newer, more powerful console system was needed,
but that new console was not destined to be a Nintendo machine.
---
## Final Boss Battle
## *Fighting the Big N*
“You are just a puppet. You
have no heart and cannot feel any pain.”
--
Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII (flashback in Nilbelheim)
Despite the long
working relationship Squaresoft had with Nintendo, not everything
was well. Nintendo had an infamous reputation for exerting tight
control over the game makers and Squaresoft was no exception. In
addition to problems over censorship and localization, other
issues also contributed to the gradually souring relationship.
In December 1991,
Squaresoft had to delay the release of Romancing SaGa (not
released in the US) into January 1992 because of bugs, but found
it impossible to fix the bugs due to a lack of cartridge memory.
Squaresoft requested Nintendo to allow them to use the new 12M
cartridge but was denied. Nintendo was reserving the cartridge
for the release of Enix’s Dragon Quest V. Squaresoft was
left with no choice but to take out parts of the game, including
a final boss scenario.
Also around then,
Squaresoft was developing Seiken Densetsu 2 (Secret of Mana) for
the Super Famicom CD-ROM system, but due to arguments between
Nintendo, Sony and Philips, the CD-ROM system was scrapped.
Squaresoft was forced to downsize the game to fit onto a
cartridge, and the result was lots of bugs.
And there was
September 1995, when Squaresoft decided to reduce the production
of their games, and was almost hauled off to court for
“breaking the rules”. Squaresoft realized then that
Nintendo’s approach to marketing was not for them.
Finally, there
was Super Mario RPG, which Squaresoft developed jointly with
Nintendo. It was originally supposed to be a Squaresoft release,
but Nintendo took over at the last minute, and it became a
Nintendo release. Nintendo complained that Squaresoft rushed the
development of the game, and things never looked worse between
the two companies.
---
## Plot twists
## *Squaresoft’s defection to
Sony*
*“Looks
like Kya ha ha ha and Gya ha ha ha are up to something
again.”*
--
Cait Sith, talking about Scarlet and Heidegger
on
the Highwind, Final Fantasy VII
When Squaresoft
found out that the next-generation Nintendo 64 Disk Drive would
not be a CD-ROM system but was going to be yet another
cartridge-based system, they decided it was time to move on. In
1996, Squaresoft suddenly announced that they were leaving
Nintendo and defecting over to Sony, and that the Final Fantasy
VII would be released for the Sony Playstation console, a less
powerful 3D console than the Nintendo 64 but which uses CD-ROMs.
The news shocked the industry, although it was already known by
industry watchers for some time that Squaresoft was planning to
leave Nintendo. Thus was finally ended Squaresoft’s 10-year
long relationship with Nintendo. Sony’s CD-ROM system
provided Squaresoft with the freedom and capacity it needed to
make the next-generation Final Fantasy games without worrying
about cartridge sizes.
At that time the
Sega Saturn console was very popular in Japan, with a huge
library of games. But Squaresoft decided, for unknown reasons, to
go with Sony instead. It was even more surprising considering
that Shiochiro Irimajiri, the president of Sega, and Tomoyuki
Takechi, president of Squaresoft, grew up in the same city and
are childhood friends.
It has been rumored that Sony gave
Squaresoft a discount in the production cost for their CD-ROMs.
Furthermore, Sony was willing to support Square’s
independent marketing company, Digicube. By mid-March, Nintendo
dumped all their Square stocks, which were bought up by Sony. In
December 1996, Sony Computer Entertainment America agreed to a
multi-title publishing deal with Square Co., Ltd., allowing the
company full North American publishing and distribution rights to
Square's 1997 PlayStation product line.
The impact on
Nintendo was great. Soon after Squaresoft’s defection, Enix
followed suit, taking along with them their Dragon Quest series.
The loss of the two most popular RPGs in Japan left Nintendo
reeling from the blow, and for a long time after that, there were
no RPGs on the Nintendo platform. Many RPG players converted to
the Playstation together with Squaresoft and Enix.
At the 1997
Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3), Sony's Phil Harrison made
this argument against Nintendo using Final Fantasy VII:
“FFVII, with three CD-ROMs, would weigh in at 1.8GB of data.
There's no way that any Nintendo cartridge-based system could
cram that much data into one game.”
George Harrison
of Nintendo responded that he didn't care about Final Fantasy
VII, because “most of our customers wouldn't want or
appreciate such a slow and tedious game such as Final Fantasy
VII.”
Squaresoft’s
relationship with Nintendo remains touchy even to this day. The
split was so bitter that even after Nintendo re-established
relations with Namco in 1999, Yamauchi, president of Nintendo,
still refused to consider working with Squaresoft. When asked
about if Nintendo would allow Squaresoft to publish games for
their upcoming GameCube console, Minoru Arakawa of Nintendo
replied, “I don’t think it is yet time for
Squaresoft.”
---
## Gimme enough gil and I can create miracles…
## *The development budget*
*“These
days, all it takes for your dreams to come true is money and
power.”*
--
President Shinra, Final Fantasy VII
Work on Final
Fantasy VII began in early 1996. The development budget for Final
Fantasy VII was reported to be a whopping US$45 million. Never
before had so much money gone into the making of an RPG. Over a
hundred artists worked on producing the most amazing computer
graphics ever seen in a video game. Beautifully rendered
full-motion video (FMV) sequences were woven directly into the
gameplay, and the game played out pretty much like a movie.
Pre-rendered backdrops graced the screen throughout the entire
game world.
It was a very radical thing to do. The
conventional wisdom then was that RPGs were all about fighting
monsters and leveling up – graphics was not seen as an
important factor. Squaresoft believed otherwise, and thought that
graphics would appeal to a much wider audience. They took a huge
gamble with the production budget and proved that their intuition
was right. They also showed that a Hollywood-sized budget can in
fact for an RPG, and raised the status of RPGs away from the
perception that RPGs were made by a few guys tinkering around in
a garage.
Final Fantasy VII
was the first game in the series to use developers on both sides
of the Pacific. The main game engine was developed at the
Japanese offices of Squaresoft, supervised by Hironobu Sakaguchi,
while the impressive video sequences were created at the new and
expensive offices of Square USA in Honolulu, Hawaii. Squaresoft
fully took advantage of the many talented and experienced
computer animators and powerful computers this side of the
Pacific.
---
## Where are the fighters and mages?
## *Gameplay design*
“Just when you thought he was
smart, he'd go off and do some damned fool thing.”
--
Cid Highwind, talking about Cloud, Final Fantasy VII
But FMVs do not
make an RPG. The focus on making breathtaking movie sequences
didn’t mean that Squaresoft stopped being concerned with the
player experience. Every new Final Fantasy has to have something
new in terms of gameplay, and in Final Fantasy VII that
innovation was the materia system.
In a way, the
development of the materia system could be seen as a
“natural” combination of FFV’s Job system, and
FFVI’s Relic system and Esper magic system. Still, Final
Fantasy VII was to be a completely whole new experience that
breaks away from the traditional RPG mold of fighters and mages,
and the materia system was designed exactly to do just that.
The battle system
didn’t change much. Final Fantasy VII still kept pretty much
the Active-Time Battle system introduced since FFIV. What was
changed was the way magic is used in the game. The
character-specific classes and abilities from the previous games
were scrapped and replaced with a classless character development
system. Any character can use any spell as long as the
appropriate materia (little orbs of condensed magical energy) is
currently equipped on a weapon or armor, and the strength of the
spell does not depend on the character abilities. Other
characters can “train” the materia and transfer it to
other characters depending on the situation. Furthermore,
different combinations of materia can have various added side
effects. This system allowed for a whole lot of freedom and
strategy in character customization, and completely eliminated
the problem of the limited usefulness of healer classes in
traditional class-based RPGs.
---
## Spiky hair is good
## *Character design practicalities*
*“Oh!
Cloud! Your hair looks like a Chocobo!”*
--
Tifa Lockheart, Final Fantasy VII
(bird’s
nest on the Corel Train tracks)
Previous games
in the series used the character designs of Yoshitaka Amano, a
well-respected artist from outside the industry. However, with
Final Fantasy VII, Square found that it was impossible to
recreate Amano’s flowing style in their 3D polygonal models.
They decided to abandon Amano’s exquisite designs and found
Nomura to take over as the chief character artist. As a more
traditional manga-styled artist, Nomura’s designs were much
more easily adapted to the 3D platform, and looked just as
attractive. This manga-inspired design is most evident in main
protagonist Cloud Strife’s spiky hair. Amano worked on the
world maps. This change in style in Final Fantasy VII was also
fitting in that it was in line with Square’s leap into a
completely new platform. Nomura stayed on as the character artist
for Final Fantasy VIII. For Final Fantasy IX, Amano made a
comeback as character artist because Square wanted the game to
encompass all the previous Final Fantasies and to “go back
to its roots.”
As for why Final Fantasy VII broke away
from the super-deformed characters (so called because they are
usually two heads tall), Sakaguchi has an interesting story to
tell. In an interview for the Japanese Famitsu magazine in early
2000, he revealed that FFVII did in fact have shorter characters
about four heads tall in the early planning stages. However, they
quickly realized that trying to animate a character wielding a
big sword in 3D results in him stabbing himself in the forehead,
so the characters were made even taller. The more realistically
proportioned characters in FFVII thus appear to be more the
result of practical 3D animation than from any desire to go for a
“realistic” look.
---
## Music takes a back seat
## *Why the music is not digitally
sampled*
*“I don't think there is
meaning to using sampling to mimic real instruments. If I were to
use sampling, I would like to use it in a hip-hop kind of way. I
think we're in the midst of a transition from synthesized game
music to recorded game music right now.”*
--
Nobuo Uetmatsu, in an interview about FF8
At a time when
most games employed the use of Red book (audio CD) format for the
game music, Final Fantasy VII surprisingly uses synthesized MIDI
from the Playstation’s internal sound chip. When asked about
this during a 1997 interview, composer Uematsu revealed that
recorded sound takes time to read whereas sound chips don’t.
It also allowed the music to change smoothly and quickly without
pause. The objective, Uematsu said, was that he did not want
players to feel stress.
There
was, of course, the other reason that recorded music consumes
more CPU cycles that could otherwise be used to speed up the 3D
engine. Even the sound effects were not pre-recorded, but are
“chirpy” sound effects generated by the
Playstation’s builti-in sound chip. Using synthesized MIDI
is very typical of the Final Fantasy games. Later games (FFVIII
and FFIX) still employ the same synthesized sounds, even though
other RPGs used recorded music. There were actually ideas to use
a famous vocalist to sing a song for the ending of FFVII, but the
team couldn’t come up with a good reason to do it, so the
mandatory pop song didn’t appear in the series until Final
Fantasy VIII.
There was one exception to the
synthesized formula in FFVII however. The final boss battle with
Sephiroth uses Latin chants layered over the MIDI theme. Uematsu
refused to say if that is pre-recorded music. My educated guess
is that it is most probably done using some kind of wave-table
synthesis, since the chants are basically short samples of sound.
Uematsu started
composing the music after the story was written, but changes to
the game were frequent, even late into the development process.
The entire FFVII score took a total of 8 months to compose. Over
a hundred tunes were written and to Uematsu’s credit as a
master composer, the FFVII soundtrack hit the top of the Japanese
charts after the soundtrack was released.
---
## Let’s just kill Aeris…
## *Drama is everything*
*“Then I'll
be going now. I'll come back when it's all over.”*
--
Aeris' last words, Final Fantasy VII
(in
Cloud's vision/dream at the Forgotten City)
It is also
interesting and surprising to note that, despite all the caution
over the gameplay elements and how music should not impact the
gameplay, the developers were extremely amenable to dramatic
changes in the story.
Perhaps the most dramatic change to the
story was the death of Aeris, a main character. It was probably
the most poignant and memorable moment in any RPG story ever
written. Players were said to have mourned for days, or even wept
when Aeris died, although major characters die all the time in
all the Final Fantasies. It would come as a surprise to many
players to learn that Aeris death was not in the original story,
and that the reason she died was the result of a simple phone
call.
In a book “Final Fantasy VII Kaitai
Shinsho”, Nomura was quoted, “Actually, we only had
Aerith (the original Japanese name for Aeris) at the beginning,
and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the
director Mr. Kitase and suggested 'Let's kill Aerith and put in
Tifa' (laughs). So now we have two heroines, and we have an event
where one of them dies."
Yes, the truth
can sometimes be cruel. There was obviously no intention on the
part of Nomura to resurrect Aeris later. It was definitely not
something that was left out of the game due to time and space
constraints.
Still, players
hoped for a “better” ending, and for quite a while a
rumor circulated online that Aeris could be resurrected. It all
started with a post on a newsgroup by an American player who
played the Japanese game and completely misunderstood a scene at
the end of the second disk to mean a failed resurrection of
Aeris. Then somebody who went by the name of “Ben
Lansing” saw the post and decided to post on the newsgroups
claiming that he was a translator at Square USA during the
production of the game, and had inside knowledge on how Aeris
could be revived. He supported his claims with the supposed
changes made to the US version of the game, such as the
Underwater materia and the new FMV sequence which he said was
that of Aeris’ resurrection (it was actually for the Diamond
Weapon monster). He also pointed to many places in the game where
the relevance to the story was unclear (such as the sick man in
Midgar) which he wove into his elaborate instructions for the
revival process. The whole story was too complicated to describe
in detail here, but the release of the American version finally
revealed many of his claims to be false. Despite many
inconsistencies in his claims, many people believed him, and
there were even staunch supporters who claimed to have
successfully revived Aeris using his instructions. Anyway,
“Ben Lansing” eventually posted that the whole thing
was just a hoax, and laughed at the general stupidity of American
players.
Hoaxes and rumors
are common for every video game, but it is quite amusing to see
how such an impromptu and innocent change in the story can have
such a huge impact on the players, sparking off such a chain of
events.
---
## Down with the censors! Off course!
## *Translation woes finally solved?*
*“…Hmm.
That’s how you’ll fool them”*
--
Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII
(outside
the HoneyBee Inn)
Squaresoft’s
breakaway from Nintendo had one advantage – it was no longer
at the mercy of Nintendo’s strict censorship rules. It did
not mean that neither Sony nor Squaresoft would not censor the
games though. Sony did in fact consider if the American version
of the game should be “modified” from the Japanese
version, but strong user feedback made Sony release the game
uncut, for the very first time, in the US. Even the vulgar words
were kept intact in the translation. Sony’s willingness to
listen to the players meant that RPG players could finally get to
enjoy unadulterated games. It was a win-win situation.
However, an
uncensored work does not mean that the localization is
necessarily better. Final Fantasy VII didn’t fare that much
better than other games in the genre in the English translation.
There was the occasional incoherent dialog. Many words were
misspelled, such as the “Off-course!” in the Gold
Saucer Battle Arena. In some cases, some instances of a word were
missed during the translation, leading to confusing scenes. One
example is when the player tries to feed the white chocobo in
Mideel and the character asks if it wants “Samolen
Greens” which doesn’t exist. However, choosing to feed
the chocobo results in a “Mimett Greens” being
consumed. The original Japanese name was “Mimetto”, so
it is a mystery how that could translate into “Samolen
Greens.”
Some translations
were made for purely aesthetic reasons, but players tend to be
really picky about what is aesthetic and what is not. I have also
found many gripes about the translation of certain terms, such as
“Gold Needle” becoming “Soft”, where the
player said was unnecessary because the original term would have
fit in English. However, I could see that the motivation behind
some of these translations was differences in culture, and the
changes were made for greater clarity to American gamers.
Still, Final Fantasy VII’s
translation was better than many other RPGs that came before.
Translation will always be an issue with the players, and I
don’t see it going away anytime soon. It was said that
Squaresoft did not have enough time to translate and correct all
the mistakes before the US release date, and that the typos would
be fixed in the later PC version, but I have no way of verifying
that. Anyway, it should be noted that Final Fantasy VIII and the
later games appeared to have much less of a problem with
localization.
---
## So money do not quite make miracles
## *Is the story complete?*
*Barret:
“What's going to happen to Midgar? We can't let that
happen!”*
*Red XIII:
“Forget Midgar, we've gotta worry about the Planet.”*
--
Barret Wallace & Red XIII, Final Fantasy VII
Overall, the development of the game was
pretty rushed. Squaresoft actually had less time to work on Final
Fantasy VII than it had with the previous games, according to
their initial projected schedule. The release date was pushed
back from December 1996 to January 1997, and the game was
expanded from the originally announced 2-disk set to span 3
disks. Many changes were also made late in the development
process. I have already mentioned the last-minute addition of
Tifa to the story. Another late character was, surprisingly,
Sephiroth the main villain, who was revealed to be in the story
much later.
Nobuo Uematsu
himself admits in the liner notes for the FFVII soundtrack that
“There is one thing common in all the Final Fantasy games.
None of them are complete.” (except for his music, that is).
Aeris’ death
was not what made Final Fantasy VII incomplete. Rather, it was
the fact that Squaresoft felt compelled to make all those changes
to the US version of the game, including a clarification and
tightening of the storyline, which was pretty vague in the
Japanese version. The game was obviously incomplete, for
otherwise Squaresoft would have been content with a direct
translation.
Changes to the US
version include the addition of the Weapon monsters, new FMV
sequences that showcase the Diamond Weapon and a much longer
Sephiroth summons animation sequence. Some weapons, for example,
Yuffie’s Rising Sun, were put back into the US version, and
some items such as the Guide Book (necessary to get the
Underwater materia for fighting the Emerald Weapon) were also
added.
The US changes
also introduced several bugs, of which the most well-known was
probably the bug where you can duplicate an item infinitely many
times given the right button presses and that you have the W-Item
materia. Improvements to the gameplay were also made. For
example, materia can be exchanged more easily in the US version
than in the Japanese version.
Even with the
additions to the US version, many plans still didn’t make it
into the game. One of them was that Final Fantasy VII was in fact
intended to have multiple endings for the multiple characters
Yuffie and Vincent. According to Nomura in an interview for
the Japanese GameFan magazine, he said, “Because to have
included [Yuffie and Vincent], we would have to make four
different endings and we were constrained by the space on the CD,
so we decided not to include them.”
Another reason for the incompleteness of
the game as given by some players was that there are many
materia, weapons and items that were either disabled or removed,
although I wouldn’t say that it is a compelling argument for
the incompleteness of the game.
Whatever the
arguments and speculations were, Squaresoft did try their best to
make as complete a game as possible. As Sakaguchi himself said in
an interview once, “Final Fantasy VII was completed to the
best of our ability and funding.”
---
## Victory! Gained 10000000 EXP and 1000000 GIL
## *Success in the marketplace*
*“If this
is all a dream, don't wake me up.”*
--
Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII
Incomplete or
not, Final Fantasy VII was shipped in Japan on January 31, 1997.
It became an overnight sensation, with 2.3 million copies snapped
up in just 3 days. For the US, however, more work was needed to
really open up the market.
Sony spared no
expense in marketing Final Fantasy VII in the US, allocating a
budget of up to US$100 million just for marketing alone. Three
30-second commercials were made highlighting the graphics and
gameplay and aired on prime-time slots on all the major networks.
There were also major print campaigns in popular publications
such as Rolling Stone, Spin and even Playboy, and the gaming
magazines. Sony even teamed up with Pepsi for a major holiday
promotion featuring the game.
Customers who
bought a Playstation console in September 1997 received a disk
containing a demo of the game and previews of other
yet-to-be-released Squaresoft titles. Other gimmicks include
limited edition FFVII T-shirts and pre-paid phone cards to
Sony’s hint line, “just in case [gamers] get stuck in
the game.”
The extensive
marketing campaign paid off handsomely. Hundreds of thousands of
consumers throughout the country reserved a copy of the game,
months before its release. Retail outlets nationwide broke the
official North American September 7 release date, eager to
satisfy the overwhelming consumer demand for Final Fantasy VII.
"Final
Fantasy VII's success in North America has surpassed our original
sales expectations and with the holidays steadily approaching,
this is only the beginning,” said Andrew House, VP
marketing, Sony Computer Entertainment America, in a news article
on December 4, 1997. He continues, “the sales success
reported from our retailers to date is proving that an expansive
variety of video game players are buying Final Fantasy VII.”
And then there
was the merchandise. Many players went on to buy Final Fantasy
VII models, posters, soundtracks. Sprite-based characters in the
previous games do not transform well into toy figurines. The move
to 3D opened up new possibilities for RPGs. It’s no longer
just about making the game. Every release of a major Squaresoft
game now comes with a full assortment of merchandise.
Squaresoft
finally managed to crack the US market. Altogether, over 6
million copies of Final Fantasy VII were sold worldwide. Final
Fantasy VII proved that everybody would love RPGs if given the
chance. In addition, a special FFVII International edition was
released in Japan so that Japanese gamers could savor the
additional FMVs made for the US version. The game was also ported
over to the PC platform. Released in June 1998, it featured
better graphics that took advantage of better PC hardware,
bringing the game onto the desktops of non-console gamers.
---
## Opening up new worlds
## *Toward Hollywood*
*“You can't
give up now! There ain't no gettin' off of this train we
on!”*
--
Barret Wallace, Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII
revolutionized the look and feel of console RPGs. It was going to
be the first of many “cinematic RPGs”, a term which
Square came up with to describe their Parasite Eve game, so
called because the FMV sequences are an integral part of the
storytelling. In the old-school style of RPGs, FMVs (if any) were
used primarily as cut-scenes to reward the player after having
achieved a certain quest. Today RPG players are split into two
main camps – one group favoring the gameplay and character
development aspects, detesting the gratuitous “eye
candy” and whining about the direction the industry seems to
be taking, the other group favoring the graphics and
storytelling, and who dislike the need for constantly leveling-up
the characters.
In
FFVII’s footsteps came many other similar Squaresoft
releases. Square took the term “cinematic” to new
heights with the release of FF8, which used almost true-to-life
3D characters to tell the story, which was interestingly, a love
story. Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story merged gameplay and drama
together seamlessly. There were many wannabes and copycats too.
Sony, after seeing the tremendous of Final Fantasy VII, released
their very own Legend of Dragoon game, which garnered mixed
reactions from the players, because of the over-emphasis on
graphics rather than the story.
Squaresoft is not
resting on its laurels. It did not simply sit back and churn out
more Final Fantasy VII’s. With each new game came new
innovations, daring risks. Perhaps the most daring risk
Squaresoft is taking now is their production of a full-length,
fully computer-graphics animated Final Fantasy movie, The Spirits
Within, due to be released in the theaters in the summer of 2001.
It was a logical step in line with the cinematic direction the
series is taking. The movie is being produced at Square’s
Honolulu Studios, the computer graphics powerhouse that produced
all the FMV sequences for Final Fantasy VII and later.
This is not the first time a game has
made the leap to the silver screen. Nintendo’s failed
attempts at the Mario movie comes to mind instantly, and there
were many others too. What are so special about Squaresoft’s
endeavor are that the story will be completely new and not based
on any of the previous games, and that the computer-rendered
animation will blow everyone away. So far, only 17 minutes of the
movie have been revealed to a lucky few and the general consensus
is that it is fantastic. It is definitely not like the horribly
animated 3D cartoons shown on Saturday morning TV. If you think
Final Fantasy VIII was fantastic, then you should see what they
could do in the movie.
---
## Final Fantasy?
## *The future*
*“...she
smiled till the end.”*
-- Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII
This is an exciting time in the history
of video games. We are seeing a merger between the video games
and movie industry, and Squaresoft is at the forefront of the
revolution. With the huge amounts of money pouring into the Final
Fantasy movie, its performance at the box office this summer can
make or break the company. And with the surprisingly low profiles
of Final Fantasy IX and X, one can’t help but wonder if
Squaresoft might have been sticking their necks too far out.
However, regardless of whether Squaresoft achieves success at the
big screen, what is certain is that the revolution has already
begun. Squaresoft has blazed the trail for future game developers
to follow, and many will.
We will always
look back at Final Fantasy VII as the game that started it all,
the one game that proved beyond a doubt that big budgets and RPGs
do mix well, that RPGs are not just about getting lost in
dungeons and slaying monsters, and that everybody loves a good
story anytime. It also paved the way for other smaller RPGs to do
well in America. Final Fantasy VII was indeed an important
milestone in RPG development. No one really knows what the future
may bring to Squaresoft, but here’s hoping that Squaresoft
will succeed in all their future endeavors, that we will continue
seeing more wonderful games (and movies) from the company, and
may none of the Final Fantasies be the final one!
**THE
END?**
---
## References
## Web sites
GameSpot’s
“The History of Final Fantasy”
[http://www.gamespot.com](http://www.gamespot.com/)
GameFAQs
[http://www.gamefaqs.com](http://www.gamefaqs.com/)
IGN (Playstation
section)
[http://psx.ign.com](http://psx.ign.com/)
The Gaming
Intelligence Agency
[http://www.thegia.com](http://www.thegia.com/)
FF Legacy
[http://www.fflegacy.com](http://www.fflegacy.com/)
FF: Worlds Apart
[http://www.ffnet.net](http://www.ffnet.net/)
The Ultimate
Nobuo Uematsu Fan Page
[http://www.nobuouematsu.com](http://www.nobuouematsu.com/)
And many other
web pages which I don’t remember
## Newsgroups
Final Fantasy FAQ
on alt.games.final-fantasy
## Books
Steven L. Kent, *The
First Quarter: A 25-year History of Video Games*
---
## About the author
Gek
Siong Low is a Masters candidate in Computer Science,
specializing in Human-Computer Interaction, at Stanford
University. He got his Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical
Engineering and Computer Science from the University of
California at Berkeley. Scanning his email messages one day, he
noticed a new class, STS145. “Hmm, history of computer
games, now that looks interesting…” and asked his
adviser if he could take the class. His adviser approved and this
is how this paper came to be.
In his spare
time, Gek plays the classical guitar, watches too much Japanese
anime and reads manga. He completed Final Fantasy VII during the
last winter break (finally!) and still gets to play the
occasional video game. An RPG gamer who can’t seem to play
well at anything else (except for turn-based strategy games), he
plays Squaresoft games almost exclusively and has collected quite
a number of Squaresoft titles. He hopes that one day somebody
will write a book on the complete history of Squaresoft.
| http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm |
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Leo's New Page
# Leo's Homepage
## Photos and Videos
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Christmas 1998-2000](xmas.html) | [Vacation 1999](vacation.html) | [Impressions](impressions.html) | [Miscellaneous](misc.html) |
---
## Manga and Anime
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [Manga: General Information](animemanga/manga.htm) | [Video Girl Ai](animemanga/vgai.htm) | [Shadow Lady](animemanga/sl.htm) |
| [Shoujo Kakumei Utena](animemanga/utena.htm) | [Magic Knight Rayearth](animemanga/mkr.htm) | [Censorship](animemanga/warning.html) |
| [Manga and Music](animemanga/music.htm) | [Kimagure Orange Road](animemanga/kor.htm) | [Tenjiku Rounin](animemanga/tenjiku.htm) |
---
## Cats
| |
| --- |
| [Harriet Vane, the Tabby Cat](harriet.htm) |
---
## Helpful articles
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<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td> <table border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" bgcolor="#D6D6D6" align="center">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><FONT COLOR=000000>This essay is an on-line guide to the different patterns of Imperial German Pickelhaube. It is <u>not</u> designed to replace good, quality reference books. The list of references at the bottom will supply substantially more information for the serious researcher/collector, but I hope this effort will serve those who do not have access to extensive references. All of the helmets in this reference are photographed in much greater detail in the Artifact Galleries in Kaiser's Bunker. <BR><BR> To determine rank and identify specific features or characteristics on the leather Pickelhaube, please refer to the: <a href="/hp/index.htm"><FONT COLOR=000080>Pickelhaube Characteristics & Rank Guide.</FONT></a><BR><BR> For further information on Pickelhaube evolution, specifically the Preußen Infantry Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube, please refer to the: <a href="/pe/index.htm"><FONT COLOR=000080>Preußen Pickelhaube Evolution.</a> </font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td align="center"><font size="5" color=#80ff00>To open each reference page, click once on the thumbnail pictures below.</font></td></tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Line Pickelhaube</u><BR>Pickelhaube is the generic name given to all helmets in this catagory, but in this page it will deal only with the leather spiked helmets worn by Infantry, Train (Supply), Dragoner (Mounted Rifle), Pionier (Pioneer), and the Eisenbahn (railway) etc.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/pickelhaube.htm"><img src="/pt/line.jpg" width="289" height="130"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>The Artillery Pickelhaube</u><BR>Kugelhelm were the leather helmet with a ball-topped spike worn by Feldartillerie (Field Artillery) and Fußartillerie (Foot Artillery).
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/artillerie.htm"><img src="/pt/artillierie.jpg" width="291" height="131"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Bayern (Bavaria) Pickelhaube</u><BR>Bayern Pickelhauben have a unique history and deserve to have their own page detailing their introduction and evolution.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/bayern.htm"><img src="/pt/bayern.jpg" width="283" height="130"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Tschako</u><BR>Tschako were the form-fitting helmet worn by Jäger, Telegraph, and Aviation troops, and for a period, the Train (Supply) troops.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/tschako.htm"><img src="/pt/tschako.jpg" width="305" height="132"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Kürassier Metalhelme</u><BR>Metalhelme were the steel helmets worn by the Kürassier (Heavy Cavalry) and Sachsen (Saxon) Garde-Reiter.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/metalhelme.htm"><img src="/pt/metalhelme.jpg" width="305" height="130"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Jäger zu Pferde Metalhelme</u><BR>Metalhelme were the steel helmets worn by the Jäger zu Pferde (Mounted Dispatch Riders)
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/JzP_helme.htm"><img src="/pt/JzP.jpg" width="306" height="130"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Ulanen Tschapka</u><BR>Tschapka were the square-topped helmet worn by Ulanen (Lancers).
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/tschapka.htm"><img src="/pt/tschapka.jpg" width="319" height="130"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Husaren Pelzmütze</u><BR>Pelzmütze were the the fur covered Busby worn by Husaren (Hussars, or Light Cavalry).
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/pelzmutze.htm"><img src="/pt/pelzmutze.jpg" width="275" height="111"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Ersatz Pickelhaube</u><BR> To meet with the Aug 1914 declaration of war, the Germans began manufacturing helmets from Ersatz (substitute) materials. This page explains the different patterns of Ersatz Pickelhaube.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/ersatz.htm"><img src="/pt/ersatz.jpg" width="288" height="128"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="70%"><font size="4"><u>Überzug (Helmet covers)</u><BR>This page provides a brief overview of the Pickelhaube Überzug (helmet cover) worn by all ranks.
</font></td> <td width="30%" td align="center"><a href="/pt/uberzug.htm"><img src="/pt/uberzug.jpg" width="288" height="128"><div align="center"><font size="3">Click to Enter</font></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="10">
<td width="30%" td align="center"> <img src="/haubes2.jpg" width="128" height="150">
</td><td width="70%" td align="left"><font size="5"><b>Regiment/Battalion Uniform Detail Charts</b></td> </tr></table> </td> </tr>
<tr><td align="center"><font size="4">The following links will present chart listing all Regiments and Battalions of the Pre-1914 Imperial German Army. Each chart will present specific details of the uniform and helmet for each unit. These charts are also available on the individual branch of service pages above. Unless listed separately, Bayern (Bavarian) units are grouped with the units of that branch of service. These charts will all open in a <u>new window</u>. </font></td> </tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr> <td><table width="100%" border="1" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/infantry1.htm" target="_blank">Infantry Regiments</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/infantry2.htm" target="_blank">Bayern Infantry Regiments</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/jager0.htm" target="_blank">Jäger and Schützen</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/fa0.htm" target="_blank">Feldartillerie (Field Artillery)</a></td>
<td width="34%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/bfa0.htm" target="_blank">Bayern Feldartillerie (Field Artillery)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/af0.htm" target="_blank">Fußartillerie (Foot Artillery)</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/dragon0.htm" target="_blank">Dragoner (Mounted Infantry)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/pionier0.htm" target="_blank">Pionier (Pioneer)
</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/train0.htm" target="_blank">Train (Supply)</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/kurassier0.htm" target="_blank">Kürassier (Heavy Cavalry)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/husar0.htm" target="_blank">Husaren (Light Cavalry)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/ulan0.htm" target="_blank">Ulanen (Lancers)</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="/gtp/New/JzP.htm" target="_blank">Jäger zu Pferde (Mounted Light Infantry)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/chev0.htm" target="_blank">Chevauleger Regiments (Mounted Rifle)</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/verk0.htm" target="_blank">Verkehrstruppen (Telegraph, Flieger, Eisenbahn etc)</a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td align="center"><font size="4"><u>Color Plates</u><BR><BR>The following links take you directly to color plates that are connected with each arm of service. These plates are also available on the individual branch of service pages above. These charts will all open in a <u>new window</u></font></td> </tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr> <td><table width="100%" border="1" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps.htm" target="_blank">Shoulder Strap Plate 1</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps2.htm" target="_blank">Shoulder Strap Plate 2</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen1.htm" target="_blank">Litzen Plate 1</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen2.htm" target="_blank">Litzen Plate 2</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen3.htm" target="_blank">Litzen Plate 3</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hw1.htm" target="_blank">Helmet Wappen Plate 1</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hw2.htm" target="_blank">Helmet Wappen Plate 2</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/kurassier2.htm" target="_blank">Kürassier Plate 1</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/kurassier1.htm" target="_blank">Kürassier Plate 2</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar1.htm" target="_blank">Husaren Plate 1</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar2.htm" target="_blank">Husaren Plate 2</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar3.htm" target="_blank">Husaren Plate 3</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/ulan1.htm" target="_blank">Ulanen Plate</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/ulan2.htm" target="_blank">Bavarian Ulanen Plate</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/JzP1.htm" target="_blank">Jäger zu Pferde Plate</a>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/fa1.htm" target="_blank">Feld Artillerie Plate </a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/dragon1.htm" target="_blank">Dragoner Plate 1</a></td>
<td width="33%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/dragon2.htm" target="_blank">Dragoner Plate 2</a>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr> <td><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0">
<td width="50%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/refs.htm" target="_blank">References</a></td>
<td width="50%" td align="center"><a href="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/wantlist.htm" target="_blank">Items Wanted</a></td>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr><td> </td></tr>
<tr> <td><center><FONT color=#80ff00><b>We Need Your Help!</b> </FONT><BR><b>Kaiser's Bunker is a non-commercial reference site designed to assist the researcher, historian, and collector. We need <u>your</u> help to keep Kaiser's Bunker on the web. Donating to the server fees helps to keep this information available on the net. </b></font></center></td></tr>
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Kaiser's Bunker Pickelhaube Guide
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| --- |
| [Back to Kaiser's Bunker](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/index2.htm) |
| |
|
**Kaiser's Bunker Pickelhaube Guide** | |
|
| |
|
This essay is an on-line guide to the different patterns of Imperial German Pickelhaube. It is not designed to replace good, quality reference books. The list of references at the bottom will supply substantially more information for the serious researcher/collector, but I hope this effort will serve those who do not have access to extensive references. All of the helmets in this reference are photographed in much greater detail in the Artifact Galleries in Kaiser's Bunker. To determine rank and identify specific features or characteristics on the leather Pickelhaube, please refer to the: [Pickelhaube Characteristics & Rank Guide.](/hp/index.htm) For further information on Pickelhaube evolution, specifically the Preußen Infantry Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube, please refer to the: [Preußen Pickelhaube Evolution.](/pe/index.htm) |
|
| |
| To open each reference page, click once on the thumbnail pictures below. |
| |
|
Line PickelhaubePickelhaube is the generic name given to all helmets in this catagory, but in this page it will deal only with the leather spiked helmets worn by Infantry, Train (Supply), Dragoner (Mounted Rifle), Pionier (Pioneer), and the Eisenbahn (railway) etc.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/pickelhaube.htm) |
|
|
The Artillery PickelhaubeKugelhelm were the leather helmet with a ball-topped spike worn by Feldartillerie (Field Artillery) and Fußartillerie (Foot Artillery).
| [Click to Enter](/pt/artillerie.htm) |
|
|
Bayern (Bavaria) PickelhaubeBayern Pickelhauben have a unique history and deserve to have their own page detailing their introduction and evolution.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/bayern.htm) |
|
|
TschakoTschako were the form-fitting helmet worn by Jäger, Telegraph, and Aviation troops, and for a period, the Train (Supply) troops.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/tschako.htm) |
|
|
Kürassier MetalhelmeMetalhelme were the steel helmets worn by the Kürassier (Heavy Cavalry) and Sachsen (Saxon) Garde-Reiter.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/metalhelme.htm) |
|
|
Jäger zu Pferde MetalhelmeMetalhelme were the steel helmets worn by the Jäger zu Pferde (Mounted Dispatch Riders)
| [Click to Enter](/pt/JzP_helme.htm) |
|
|
Ulanen TschapkaTschapka were the square-topped helmet worn by Ulanen (Lancers).
| [Click to Enter](/pt/tschapka.htm) |
|
|
Husaren PelzmützePelzmütze were the the fur covered Busby worn by Husaren (Hussars, or Light Cavalry).
| [Click to Enter](/pt/pelzmutze.htm) |
|
|
Ersatz Pickelhaube To meet with the Aug 1914 declaration of war, the Germans began manufacturing helmets from Ersatz (substitute) materials. This page explains the different patterns of Ersatz Pickelhaube.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/ersatz.htm) |
|
|
Überzug (Helmet covers)This page provides a brief overview of the Pickelhaube Überzug (helmet cover) worn by all ranks.
| [Click to Enter](/pt/uberzug.htm) |
|
| |
|
| **Regiment/Battalion Uniform Detail Charts** |
|
| The following links will present chart listing all Regiments and Battalions of the Pre-1914 Imperial German Army. Each chart will present specific details of the uniform and helmet for each unit. These charts are also available on the individual branch of service pages above. Unless listed separately, Bayern (Bavarian) units are grouped with the units of that branch of service. These charts will all open in a new window. |
| |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [Infantry Regiments](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/infantry1.htm) | [Bayern Infantry Regiments](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/infantry2.htm) | [Jäger and Schützen](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/jager0.htm) |
| [Feldartillerie (Field Artillery)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/fa0.htm) | [Bayern Feldartillerie (Field Artillery)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/bfa0.htm) | [Fußartillerie (Foot Artillery)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/af0.htm) |
| [Dragoner (Mounted Infantry)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/dragon0.htm) | [Pionier (Pioneer)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/pionier0.htm) | [Train (Supply)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/train0.htm) |
| [Kürassier (Heavy Cavalry)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/kurassier0.htm) | [Husaren (Light Cavalry)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/husar0.htm) | [Ulanen (Lancers)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/ulan0.htm) |
| [Jäger zu Pferde (Mounted Light Infantry)](/gtp/New/JzP.htm) | [Chevauleger Regiments (Mounted Rifle)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/chev0.htm) | [Verkehrstruppen (Telegraph, Flieger, Eisenbahn etc)](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/verk0.htm) |
|
| |
| Color PlatesThe following links take you directly to color plates that are connected with each arm of service. These plates are also available on the individual branch of service pages above. These charts will all open in a new window |
| |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [Shoulder Strap Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps.htm) | [Shoulder Strap Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps2.htm) | [Litzen Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen1.htm) |
| [Litzen Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen2.htm) | [Litzen Plate 3](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/Litzen3.htm) | [Helmet Wappen Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hw1.htm) |
| [Helmet Wappen Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hw2.htm) | [Kürassier Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/kurassier2.htm) | [Kürassier Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/kurassier1.htm) |
| [Husaren Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar1.htm) | [Husaren Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar2.htm) | [Husaren Plate 3](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/husar3.htm) |
| [Ulanen Plate](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/ulan1.htm) | [Bavarian Ulanen Plate](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/ulan2.htm) | [Jäger zu Pferde Plate](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/JzP1.htm) |
| [Feld Artillerie Plate](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/fa1.htm) | [Dragoner Plate 1](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/dragon1.htm) | [Dragoner Plate 2](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/dragon2.htm) |
|
| |
|
[References](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/refs.htm) | [Items Wanted](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/wantlist.htm) |
|
| |
| **We Need Your Help!** **Kaiser's Bunker is a non-commercial reference site designed to assist the researcher, historian, and collector. We need your help to keep Kaiser's Bunker on the web. Donating to the server fees helps to keep this information available on the net.** |
|
|
| |
| [Back to Kaiser's Bunker](http://www.kaisersbunker.com/) |
| |
| |
| https://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/ |
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<P>
<a href="recent.html">recent developments</a>
<p>
06/25/2023 - <A href="texts/23-dec1.html">Dec 1 2023</a>
<p>
</p>
</p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
I'm not hugely into FB, but - wow - there's certainly <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/MayDayMystery/">a hell of a lot of folks in the MM FB group</a>.
<p>
Recent: <a target=_new href="http://www.phoenixmag.com/history/arizona-s-da-vinci-code.html">Arizona's da Vinci Code</a> via phoenixmag.com
<p>
Many things end, but the Mystery persists.
<p></p>
<br>I am: Bryan Hance, P.O. Box 14681 - Portland, Oregon 97293
<!--<P>
NEW: "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0trzLODfNs">Mysterium - O Enigma May Day</a>" -- turn the subtitles on. Thanks, Christian G!
<br>(<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzodaEivbaw">here's an english version</a>)-->
<p>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/MayDayMystery" target=_new>Hey, look - there's a Facebook Group</a><br>
Also: the Facebook group has a PO box now :)
<p>Robert's running that, and he is
<br>
Robert Bannon<br>
2719 Goldspring Ln<br>
Spring, TX 77373<br>
<br>
<!--
04.30.2010 - <a href="http://www.kvoa.com/videos/?id=1849">KVOA - Daily Wildcat mystery ad continues to stump followers</a><br>
-->
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May Day Mystery:Historical Madness
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|
[](webmaster.html)
[recent developments](recent.html)
06/25/2023 - [Dec 1 2023](texts/23-dec1.html)
I'm not hugely into FB, but - wow - there's certainly [a hell of a lot of folks in the MM FB group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/MayDayMystery/).
Recent: [Arizona's da Vinci Code](http://www.phoenixmag.com/history/arizona-s-da-vinci-code.html) via phoenixmag.com
Many things end, but the Mystery persists.
I am: Bryan Hance, P.O. Box 14681 - Portland, Oregon 97293
[Hey, look - there's a Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/MayDayMystery)
Also: the Facebook group has a PO box now :)
Robert's running that, and he is
Robert Bannon
2719 Goldspring Ln
Spring, TX 77373
| http://www.maydaymystery.org/mayday/ |
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<TD ALIGN="left" BGCOLOR="#000000" NOWRAP><DIV ALIGN="center"><IMG SRC="/fs_img/spacer.gif" HEIGHT="33" WIDTH="1"><FONT SIZE="6" COLOR="#FFFFFF"><B><img src=/images/cash.gif height="33"><!--begin page_title-->Instant Life<!--end page_title--><img src=/images/cash.gif height="33"></B></FONT></DIV></TD>
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<TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="140"><a href=/index.html>Home Page</a><p>
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<TD WIDTH="50%"><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#33ffcc"><B><!--begin heading_1-->Welcome to the new and improved site.<!--end heading_1--></B></FONT><BR>
<!--begin text_1-->This is my little personal space on the internet. I will try and make this web page interesting but I think my ambition is a little bigger than reality.<p>What are you going to find here? Well not much. I do not post porn or sell anything so this is going to be about stuff I like. And if you don't like it, too bad, look at the site anyway.<p>The stuff you will find here are my interests. Karate, Roleplaying, Music, Paintball, Art, Anime, Renaissance, Ancient weaponry and other randomness<!--end text_1--></TD>
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<TD><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#33ffcc"><B><!--begin heading_2-->New site crap<!--end heading_2--></B></FONT><BR>
<!--begin text_2-->3/22/2001 Ok, I know most of you know this already butI will post it anyway. Any new things can be found on the <font="4"><b>"New and Improved, Larger Than Life, Super Dupper, Ultra Special, Often Imitated but never Duplicated, News PAGE!"</b></font><br><a href=/whats_new.html>Psst, over here</a><p> Well, this is where you find all the new and exciting (yeah right) features about this site. Since it is relativly new there will be lots of these. As soon as I can I am going to post a page just for new news. This will also include news about my life so if you are at all interested you can check it out.<p>As many of you might have noticed this page is a little different. That's because Freeservers has a really fucked up way of showing their files. So if you decide to try and make one like I did, make lots of backups on your own machine beore deleting everything. I am still beating my head against the keyboard.<!--end text_2--></TD>
<TD ALIGN="center" VALIGN="top"><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#33ffcc"><B><!--begin heading_3-->Elements<!--end heading_3--></B></FONT><BR>
<!--begin text_3-->Well here is one of my favorite images. I am on the hunt for the artist and when I find them again I will add the link. It represents one of the two religons I ever considered, Elementalism. It would either be that or Taoism.<!--end text_3--></TD>
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<!--begin text_4-->Well if there is anything here you like, let me know. If you want to start your own site shoot me an email and I will tell you to go away. Actually I can give you what little knowledge I have about making a web page but you might be getter grabbing a book because I am lost! Feel free to send me any comments or feelings that you might have about this page.<!--end text_4--><BR>
<B><!--begin link_1--><a href='mailto:cashj@unistaraircargo.com' target=fs_body>Email me</a><!--end link_1--></B></P>
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<!--begin text_6--><!--end text_6--></P></TD>
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<FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#33ffcc"><B><!--begin heading_5-->Vampires, Gothic Arcitecture, and women in leather...<!--end heading_5--></B></FONT><BR>
<!--begin text_5-->What more do you need? Actually I love this painting in general. I liked it so much that I have a signed print of it hanging in my study.<!--end text_5--><BR>
<B><!--begin link_2--><a href='http://www.clydecaldwell.com'>Check out his site!</a><!--end link_2--></B></TD>
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| | **Instant Life** |
| | |
| [Home Page](/index.html)
[About Me](/about.html)
[Kick Ass Pics](/photo.html)
[Contact](/contact.html)
[Cool Links](/favorite_links.html)
[Guest Book](/guest_book.html)
[New Stuff](/whats_new.html)
|
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| --- | --- |
| **Welcome to the new and improved site.**
This is my little personal space on the internet. I will try and make this web page interesting but I think my ambition is a little bigger than reality.What are you going to find here? Well not much. I do not post porn or sell anything so this is going to be about stuff I like. And if you don't like it, too bad, look at the site anyway.The stuff you will find here are my interests. Karate, Roleplaying, Music, Paintball, Art, Anime, Renaissance, Ancient weaponry and other randomness | |
| **New site crap**
3/22/2001 Ok, I know most of you know this already butI will post it anyway. Any new things can be found on the **"New and Improved, Larger Than Life, Super Dupper, Ultra Special, Often Imitated but never Duplicated, News PAGE!"**[Psst, over here](/whats_new.html) Well, this is where you find all the new and exciting (yeah right) features about this site. Since it is relativly new there will be lots of these. As soon as I can I am going to post a page just for new news. This will also include news about my life so if you are at all interested you can check it out.As many of you might have noticed this page is a little different. That's because Freeservers has a really fucked up way of showing their files. So if you decide to try and make one like I did, make lots of backups on your own machine beore deleting everything. I am still beating my head against the keyboard. | **Elements**
Well here is one of my favorite images. I am on the hunt for the artist and when I find them again I will add the link. It represents one of the two religons I ever considered, Elementalism. It would either be that or Taoism. |
| **Other meaningless blabber**
Well if there is anything here you like, let me know. If you want to start your own site shoot me an email and I will tell you to go away. Actually I can give you what little knowledge I have about making a web page but you might be getter grabbing a book because I am lost! Feel free to send me any comments or feelings that you might have about this page.
**[Email me](mailto:cashj@unistaraircargo.com)**
|
**Vampires, Gothic Arcitecture, and women in leather...**
What more do you need? Actually I love this painting in general. I liked it so much that I have a signed print of it hanging in my study.
**[Check out his site!](http://www.clydecaldwell.com)** |
| |
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<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Greetings from the Fourth
Millennium!</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">The Fourth Millennium is the home
of Corby Waste. The Third Millennium recently arrived which means
the Fourth will be next! Actually, there already was a Fourth
Millennium - </FONT><I><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">BC</FONT></I><FONT
COLOR="#ffffff"> - back near the beginnings of civilization,
in the time of Stonehenge and ancient Egypt.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000">
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">But, getting back to the future,
there are many sections in my site that could stand alone as
separate websites but since they're all mine I'm keeping them
together. I've created an additional </FONT><A HREF="http://www.fourth-millennium.net/galleries/galleries-home.html">gallery
webpage</A><FONT COLOR="#ffffff"> for new material, there's a
lot there!</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Please take your time because as
you'll see by clicking on the time portal icon below, the Fourth
Millennium won't be here for a while yet!</FONT></B></P>
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<P><IMG SRC="vr-title.JPG" WIDTH="293" HEIGHT="51" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3" ALT="Virtual Reality Simulations Title"></P>
<P><TABLE WIDTH="572" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="2" CELLPADDING="6">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#606060">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">The 160th
Century Worlds Tour, the Universe of Cordwainer Smith</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P><A HREF="cordwainer-vr/cs-index.html"><IMG SRC="tour-art.JPG"
WIDTH="496" HEIGHT="355" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"
ALT="160th Century Worlds Tour, the Universe of Cordwainer Smith Artwork"></A></P>
<P><TABLE WIDTH="559" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="19"
HEIGHT="93">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#606060">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">Welcome to
16000 A.D. !</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Take the 160th Century Worlds Tour,
the Universe of Cordwainer Smith - featuring virtual reality
and stereo simulations of Earthport Tower, Norstrilia, the Storm
Planet and several more. It's many millennia ahead of our time!
If you're ready to take the tour, click on the image above.</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="468" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="371">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="449">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="cordwainer-vr/gem-planet.html"><IMG
SRC="gem-planet-composite.JPG" WIDTH="444" HEIGHT="290" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="449">
<B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Cordwainer Smith's science fiction worlds
are unlike anything you've ever seen before. Click on the link
above to visit one of them now.</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="index-cs-posters.html"><IMG SRC="glasses.JPG"
WIDTH="71" HEIGHT="22" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P> </P>
<P><A HREF="vr-worlds/other-vr-worlds.html"><B><FONT SIZE="+1"><IMG
SRC="vr-worlds-title.JPG" WIDTH="585" HEIGHT="104" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></FONT></B></A></P>
<P> </P>
<P><A HREF="cordwainer-vr/old-artwork-museum.html"><B><FONT SIZE="+1"><IMG
SRC="old-lumena-art-banner-sm-2.jpg" WIDTH="770" HEIGHT="150"
ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></FONT></B></A></P>
<P> </TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="space-exploration/space-exploration.html"><IMG
SRC="my-life-on-mars-banner.jpg" WIDTH="793" HEIGHT="361" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="349" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="2"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="196">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#404040">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="mission-artwork/mission-index.html"><IMG
SRC="mission-artwork-title.JPG" WIDTH="311" HEIGHT="166" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> <A HREF="fl-minerals/fl-intro.html"><IMG
SRC="fl-adventures-title3.JPG" WIDTH="370" HEIGHT="211" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="744" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="50%">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> <B><FONT COLOR="#00cc66" SIZE="+2" FACE="Copperplate Gothic Bold">Fluorescent
Safari 2010</FONT></B><TABLE WIDTH="351" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="2"
CELLPADDING="12">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#616161" HEIGHT="66">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="fl-minerals/fluorescent-california-home.html"><MAP
NAME="fluorescent-california-linkMap8">
<AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="0,0,242,255" HREF="fl-minerals/fluorescent-california-home.html">
</MAP><IMG SRC="fl-minerals/fluorescent-california-link.jpg"
WIDTH="242" HEIGHT="255" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"
USEMAP="#fluorescent-california-linkMap8" ISMAP></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="fl-minerals/fluorescent-california-home.html"><B>New
Discovery UV Galleries</B></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></TD>
<TD WIDTH="50%">
<A HREF="fl-minerals/fluorescent-ontario.html"><IMG SRC="fl-minerals/fluorescent-ontario-link.JPG"
WIDTH="340" HEIGHT="198" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="greenland/geo-adventure-2004-home.html"><IMG
SRC="greenland/geo-adventure-2004-title.JPG" WIDTH="668" HEIGHT="440"
ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></P>
<P> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="559" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="19" HEIGHT="93">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#606060">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+2">Geo-Safari</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="../southern-africa/geo-safari-display-case.html"><B><IMG
SRC="southern-africa/Geo-Safari-fluorescent-display-vsm.JPG"
WIDTH="500" HEIGHT="263" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></B></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="508" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="40">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">New:</FONT><FONT
COLOR="#ffffff"> </FONT></B><FONT SIZE="-1"> </FONT><B><A
HREF="southern-africa/geo-safari-display-case.html">Fluorescent
Minerals of the Southern African Region Display</A></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">My Geo-Safari research
project</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+2" FACE="Times New Roman">Ancient
History Research Projects</FONT></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="contact/1973-atlantis-expedition.html"><FONT
FACE="Times New Roman"><IMG SRC="contact/1973-atlantis-expedition-to-cadiz-spain-banner.jpg"
WIDTH="665" HEIGHT="329" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></FONT></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="74">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="60%" HEIGHT="73">
<P><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" FACE="Times New Roman">I was a member
of this famous expedition when I was 19 years old and in college.</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" FACE="Times New Roman">Click
on the image for my 1973 Atlantis Expedition webpage (under construction)</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="http://www.fourth-millennium.net/contact/minoan-crete-exploration-2016.html"><IMG
SRC="contact/minoan-crete-exploration-2016-mini-poster-title-3.jpg"
WIDTH="700" HEIGHT="150" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="http://www.fourth-millennium.net/contact/minoan-crete-exploration-2016.html"><IMG
SRC="contact/minoan-crete-exploration-2016-mini-poster-sm-2.jpg"
WIDTH="440" HEIGHT="369" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="contact/1976-egypt-atlantis-expedition.html"><B><FONT
SIZE="+1" FACE="Times New Roman">Atlantis Expedition To Egypt,
May, 1976</FONT></B></A><B><FONT SIZE="+1" FACE="Times New Roman">
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1" FACE="Times New Roman">including</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1" FACE="Times New Roman">the
recording of Paul Horn's "Inside The Great Pyramid"</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" FACE="Times New Roman">(Under
construction)</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="contact/1976-egypt-atlantis-expedition.html"><B><FONT
SIZE="+1" FACE="Times New Roman"><IMG SRC="contact/Spirits-Of-Ancient-Egypt-poster-sm-2.jpg"
WIDTH="380" HEIGHT="378" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></FONT></B></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="2"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="158">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="67%" HEIGHT="153">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="lovecraft/hp-lovecraft.html"><IMG SRC="lovecraft/lovecraft-title1.JPG"
WIDTH="283" HEIGHT="80" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
<TD WIDTH="2%">
</TD>
<TD WIDTH="29%">
<A HREF="lovecraft/hp-lovecraft.html"><IMG SRC="lovecraft/hp-lovecraft-photo-s2.JPG"
WIDTH="89" HEIGHT="134" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0"
HEIGHT="182">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="46%" HEIGHT="181" VALIGN="TOP" ALIGN="CENTER">
<A HREF="lovecraft/hp-lovecraft.html"><IMG SRC="lovecraft/dreamquest-title-sm2.JPG"
WIDTH="194" HEIGHT="165" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A>
</TD>
<TD WIDTH="54%" ALIGN="CENTER" VALIGN="TOP">
<A HREF="lovecraft/hp-lovecraft.html"><IMG SRC="lovecraft/atmom-report-cover-1930-sm.JPG"
WIDTH="188" HEIGHT="175" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="496" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="689">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#606060">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="148" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="2"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="79">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="172" BGCOLOR="#ffffff" HEIGHT="72">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> <A HREF="http://www.bechtel.com/"><IMG
SRC="family-travels/smlogo.gif" WIDTH="120" HEIGHT="59" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="family-travels/family-travels.html"><IMG
SRC="waste-family-travels-link.JPG" WIDTH="400" HEIGHT="482"
ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="406" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="7"
CELLPADDING="7" HEIGHT="63">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="463" BGCOLOR="#5d5d5d">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT SIZE="+1"><A HREF="family-travels/waste-family-album.html">Waste
Family Album</A></FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="family-travels/waste-family-album.html"><B><FONT
SIZE="+1"><IMG SRC="family-travels/waste-family-album-link-3.JPG"
WIDTH="299" HEIGHT="212" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></FONT></B></A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="406" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="7"
CELLPADDING="7" HEIGHT="63">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="463" BGCOLOR="#5d5d5d">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT SIZE="+1"><A HREF="family-travels/waste-family-history.html"><IMG
SRC="family-travels/waste-history-link-1.JPG" WIDTH="589" HEIGHT="423"
ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="429" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="7"
CELLPADDING="7" HEIGHT="653">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="463" BGCOLOR="#5d5d5d">
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT SIZE="+1"><A HREF="http://jameswaste.com/"><IMG
SRC="family-travels/dont-shoot-the-ice-cream-man-cover-by-james-waste.JPG"
WIDTH="241" HEIGHT="361" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">DON'T SHOOT
THE ICE CREAM MAN</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">A Cold War
Spy In A New World Disorder</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">by James Waste</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff" SIZE="+1">Now available
on Amazon.com </FONT><FONT SIZE="+1"><A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Ice-Cream-Man/dp/0615283438/ref%3Dsr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262973052&sr=1-1">here</A></FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">“A pithy and readable
account of some extraordinary experiences.”</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">—George P. Shultz,
former U.S. Secretary of State, Treasury, and Labor</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/user/Corbology"><B><IMG
SRC="corbology-channel-link.jpg" WIDTH="344" HEIGHT="143" ALIGN="BOTTOM"
BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></B></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD COLSPAN="2" HEIGHT="46">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="503" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="18">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="100%" BGCOLOR="#666666">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> <B><I><A HREF="http://mikaels.net/so/blue/a/millennium"
TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="Y4K-countdown-clock-2.JPG" WIDTH="322"
HEIGHT="144" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></I></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Some people are already
thinking about the Fourth Millennium!</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="578" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="2"
CELLPADDING="9">
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="573" BGCOLOR="#616161">
<B><A HREF="http://mikaelsnet.info/records/sitever3.3/b/onm3">Fourth
Millennium Countdown Clock</A></B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="573" BGCOLOR="#616161">
<B><A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Galactic-Geographic-Annual-3003-Earth/dp/1843400707">Galactic
Geographic Annual 3003 Magazine</A></B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="573" BGCOLOR="#616161">
<B><A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/687732.stm">Europe's
largest time capsule buried for a millennium</A></B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="573" BGCOLOR="#616161">
<B><A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm">Human
species 'may split in two'</A> <FONT COLOR="#625e6f">----</FONT><FONT
COLOR="#ffffff">("human race would peak in the year 3000")</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="573" BGCOLOR="#616161">
<B><A HREF="http://www.gotfuturama.com/">Futurama</A><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">
takes place in the First Century of the Fourth Millennium (3000)</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">Corbology</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH="699" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0"
CELLPADDING="0" HEIGHT="147">
<TR>
<TD HEIGHT="68" COLSPAN="2" VALIGN="BOTTOM" BGCOLOR="#414141">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="corby-waste-artist-bio.html"><IMG SRC="corby-waste-bio.jpg"
WIDTH="490" HEIGHT="378" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="corby-waste-artist-bio.html"><B><FONT
SIZE="+1">Corby Waste Artist Bio</FONT></B></A></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD COLSPAN="2" VALIGN="TOP" HEIGHT="66">
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#999999">The opinions expressed
in the Fourth Millennium are strictly my own.</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#999999">The Fourth Millennium
is suitable for all ages</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER> </P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">Fourth Millennium </FONT><A
HREF="mailto:%20corbyjw@gmail.com">contact</A></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#ffffff">© Copyright 2021
by Corby Waste</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">fourth-millennium/travel/yolla-bolly-track-1970.JPG</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">Single-frame from Super
8 film taken by Corby Waste</FONT></B></P>
<P ALIGN=CENTER><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">Corbology</FONT></B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
|
Fourth Millennium
| | |
| --- | --- |
|
| |
| |
| --- |
| **Greetings from the Fourth
Millennium!**
**The Fourth Millennium is the home
of Corby Waste. The Third Millennium recently arrived which means
the Fourth will be next! Actually, there already was a Fourth
Millennium - *BC* - back near the beginnings of civilization,
in the time of Stonehenge and ancient Egypt.
But, getting back to the future,
there are many sections in my site that could stand alone as
separate websites but since they're all mine I'm keeping them
together. I've created an additional [gallery
webpage](http://www.fourth-millennium.net/galleries/galleries-home.html) for new material, there's a
lot there!**
**Please take your time because as
you'll see by clicking on the time portal icon below, the Fourth
Millennium won't be here for a while yet!**
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Virtual Reality Simulations Title
| |
| --- |
| **The 160th
Century Worlds Tour, the Universe of Cordwainer Smith** |
[160th Century Worlds Tour, the Universe of Cordwainer Smith Artwork](cordwainer-vr/cs-index.html)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| **Welcome to
16000 A.D. !**
**Take the 160th Century Worlds Tour,
the Universe of Cordwainer Smith - featuring virtual reality
and stereo simulations of Earthport Tower, Norstrilia, the Storm
Planet and several more. It's many millennia ahead of our time!
If you're ready to take the tour, click on the image above.**
| |
| --- |
| |
| **Cordwainer Smith's science fiction worlds
are unlike anything you've ever seen before. Click on the link
above to visit one of them now.** |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| |
| --- |
| |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| **Fluorescent
Safari 2010**
| |
| --- |
|
[**New
Discovery UV Galleries**](fl-minerals/fluorescent-california-home.html) |
| |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| **Geo-Safari**
| |
| --- |
| **New:** **[Fluorescent
Minerals of the Southern African Region Display](southern-africa/geo-safari-display-case.html)** |
**My Geo-Safari research
project** |
Ancient
History Research Projects
| |
| --- |
| **I was a member
of this famous expedition when I was 19 years old and in college.**
**Click
on the image for my 1973 Atlantis Expedition webpage (under construction)** |
[**Atlantis Expedition To Egypt,
May, 1976**](contact/1976-egypt-atlantis-expedition.html)**including**
**the
recording of Paul Horn's "Inside The Great Pyramid"**
**(Under
construction)**
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | | |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| | |
| | |
| --- | --- |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| **[Waste
Family Album](family-travels/waste-family-album.html)**
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| |
| --- |
|
**DON'T SHOOT
THE ICE CREAM MAN**
**A Cold War
Spy In A New World Disorder**
**by James Waste**
**Now available
on Amazon.com [here](http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Ice-Cream-Man/dp/0615283438/ref%3Dsr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262973052&sr=1-1)**
**“A pithy and readable
account of some extraordinary experiences.”**
**—George P. Shultz,
former U.S. Secretary of State, Treasury, and Labor** |
|
|
| |
| --- |
|
**Some people are already
thinking about the Fourth Millennium!** |
| |
| --- |
| **[Fourth
Millennium Countdown Clock](http://mikaelsnet.info/records/sitever3.3/b/onm3)** |
| **[Galactic
Geographic Annual 3003 Magazine](http://www.amazon.com/Galactic-Geographic-Annual-3003-Earth/dp/1843400707)** |
| **[Europe's
largest time capsule buried for a millennium](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/687732.stm)** |
| **[Human
species 'may split in two'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm) ----("human race would peak in the year 3000")** |
| **[Futurama](http://www.gotfuturama.com/)
takes place in the First Century of the Fourth Millennium (3000)** |
|
**Corbology**
| |
| --- |
|
[**Corby Waste Artist Bio**](corby-waste-artist-bio.html)
|
|
**The opinions expressed
in the Fourth Millennium are strictly my own.**
**The Fourth Millennium
is suitable for all ages**
**Fourth Millennium [contact](mailto:%20corbyjw@gmail.com)**
**© Copyright 2021
by Corby Waste**
**fourth-millennium/travel/yolla-bolly-track-1970.JPG**
**Single-frame from Super
8 film taken by Corby Waste**
**Corbology** |
| http://www.fourth-millennium.net/ |
<head><title>Not Acceptable!</title></head><body><h1>Not Acceptable!</h1><p>An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security.</p></body></html> | Not Acceptable!# Not Acceptable!
An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod\_Security.
| http://www.cthulhufiles.com/ |
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
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<meta name="Author" content="Nicholas blachford" />
<meta name="contents" content="A few crazy ideas and loads of old links" />
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Nicholas Blachford's even less Obsolete Home Page</title>
<link rel="icon" href="pics/hand.gif" />
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<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#77bbff" link="#006600" vlink="#400000"
alink="#FF0000" background="pics/minatorb.jpg" >
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And so it begins... bgproperties="fixed"
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<table width="700">
<tr>
<td width="120">
<img src="pics/mesmall.jpg" alt="This picture is intentionally bad" height="120" width="120" />
</td>
<td width="580">
<center><font size="+3" face="helvetica">Nicholas Blachford's</font></center>
<br />
<br /><center><font size="+3" face="helvetica">Home Page</font></center>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font face="helvetica">Hello,</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Good morning, good evening, good whatever, and you are most welcome to my <a href="http://www.blachford.info/index.html">home page</a> and web site.
Feel free to look around, there's all sorts of sometimes strange stuff which has been building up for years.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"> My name is Nicholas Blachford, or (apparently) ÐÐ¸ÐºÐ¾Ð»Ð°Ñ ÐлÑÑ
ÑоÑд. I live in Cambridge, England.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">I was born in Singapore to English parents, grew up in Northern Ireland and have a British passport issued in the Netherlands and I used to live in Paris. There's probably a <i>wee</i> bit of Ulster-Scots thrown in for good measure as my Grandmother is from Northern Ireland. I think I am probably best described as foreign.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">I used to live in Amsterdam which is the capital of Holland except the country is actually called the Netherlands and it apparently has two capitals (The Dutch love to confuse people). I also lived in Amersfoort, and briefly in the North of England near Yarm in a hamlet called Aislaby (I never did figure out how to pronounce it).</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">As you may notice I am an inventive sort of bloke with varied interests and yes I am a computer geek (or Kook as one web site once called me). I'm into the "alternative" computer scene (i.e. not Windows), mainly because I like using computers, not fighting them. I'm currently using a 13" MacBook and have a dinky litte Acer Aspire One <i>netbook</i> running Haiku, before it I had a dinky little 12" Apple PowerBook. I've previously used BeOS, Amiga, Linux and even Windows the odd time.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">I'm also into Photography, Music (various artists), Movies (anything really but especially SciFi) and various other things at whim.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">My PCs once had their own logos, firstly <img src="pics/dolly.gif" alt="Dolly" height="64" width="64" />
then <img src="pics/dali.gif" alt="Dali" height="64" width="64" /> but I haven't given the others names / logos for years.</font></p>
<hr width="100%" />
<p>
<br /><font face="helvetica"><font color="#CC0000"><b>More? - </b></font>you can find out more about me <b><a href="other/me.html">here</a></b> (needs updating).</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"><font color="#CC0000"><b>Blog - </b></font>I gave in and have added a <a href="http://www.blachford.info/blog.html"><b>blog</b></a> (last entry 08/10/06). [Note: Fixed link]</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"><a href="gallery/index.html">The Gallery</a> Paris is a very good place to live if you are into photography.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">The Amiga <a href="computer/walker/walker.html">Walker</a> pages are about a very rare prototype computer I managed to get hold of.</font></p>
<hr width="100%" />
<!--
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
<font color="#CC0000"><b>NEW! - </b>
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
-->
<p>
<br /><font face="helvetica"><b>Articles:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Added an article on the <a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/articles/PhysX1.html">PhysX</a> physics chip.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"> A full list of articles can now be found in the appropriately titled <a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/articles/index.html">Articles</a> section.</font></p>
<br /><font face="helvetica"><b>Inventive Articles:</b></font>
<p><font face="helvetica">Could you really build The Matrix? Yes, I think you can not only build The Matrix, but you could do better, here is my idea for a virtual world called <a href="computer/adex.html">The ADEX</a> that I dreamt up in 2001.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">The badly titled <a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/The_Source/ConsumerGame.html">Neviong</a> is some musings about how to develop a Linux based media centre.</font></p>
<p>
<br /><font face="helvetica"><b>For the Geeks...</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Have your chips and eat them in the <a href="computer/index.html">Computer</a>
section with <font color="#0000DD"><i>Open source</i></font> Amiga and BeOS software..</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"> There is an installer mock-up I did for the Linux distro <a href="http://www.yoper.com">Yoper</a>. This can be found in a section called <a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/The_Source/index.html">The Source</a>.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Dug out from my hard disc is the 1999 <i>
<a href="computer/superpalm.html">Super Palm</a></i> idea.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">OSNews Show reports (all with pics):
<br/>
<br /><font color="#CC0000"><b>NEW! - </b><a href="http://www.osnews.com/story/20651/BeGeistert_019_Alphaville">BeGeistert 019</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert008/review.html">BeGeistert 008</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/A-EXPO/AExpo.html">Amiga Expo 2002</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert010/010review.html">BeGeistert 010</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/CES/CES2003.html">CES 2003</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/LinuxTag2003/LinuxTagReport.html">LinuxTag 2003</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert012/BeGeistert012_Review.html">BeGeistert012</a>
<br /><a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/Apple-ExpoFr04/AppleExpo04.html">Apple Expo Paris 2004</a></font></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Most computer sits on it's arse doing mostly nothing all day so I thought I'd do something useful with it: It's now looking for Aliens...
<br />I joined the <a href="http://setiathome2.ssl.berkeley.edu/index.html">SETI</a> (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) project and am contributing units to it.</font></p>
<p>
<br /><font face="helvetica"><b>Weird Science:</b></font></p>
<!--
<p><font face="helvetica">Think up a new idea in technology or do something new in Art they call you a genius,
<br />Do the same in Physics and they call you a nut case!</font></p>
-->
<p><font face="helvetica"><a href="quantum/time.html">Sorted!</a> Time travel solved - (actually just the father-son paradox).</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">What's all this <a href="other/ufo.html">UFO</a> nonsense?</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">If you want to know about real Physics (and UFOs!) I've written some short reviews of the
Books I've read along with other <a href="other/stuff.html">stuff I like</a> (incudes TV & Films).</font></p>
<!--
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
<p><font face="helvetica"><a href="quantum/gravity.html">Gravity</a> and how to avoid it.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Travel <a href="quantum/fastlight.html">faster</a> than Light, without annoying Einstien - see note at end, I got it right?</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"><a href="quantum/dimeng.html">Sorted 2!</a> Quantum Physics...well maybe! (Includes provisional 5th edition).</font></p>
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
-->
<p><font face="helvetica">
<br /><b>Other:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">The <a href="other/aliens.html">humour</a> section, and a new (2003)
<a href="pics/CardSmall.jpg">XMAS</a> card, the <a href="other/merryxmas.html">old</a> (1998?) card is there to.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">What happened when <a href="other/koshhal.html">Kosh met Hal.</a></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Can you <a href="other/hearit.html">Hearit</a> ? - The Music section, with Lyrics.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Are you a <a href="other/blachford.html">Blachford</a> ? - with Coat of Arms.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Who's <a href="other/fame.html">Looking</a> ? -
This site gets all sorts of interesting visitors.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Going somewhere? Keep Surfing at my 1997 "vintage" <a href="other/links.html">Links</a> page.</font></p>
<!--
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
<p><font face="helvetica">
<br /><b>Coming Soon... NOT!</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">I'll be adding more as and when I get the time (read never),
expect a section on <a href="http://www.wwisa.org/">Software Architecture</a>,
something on all the book ideas I've had, maybe another CPU
design and something on the ideas I had for a Robot that could be built for <i>Robot Wars.</i>
Just don't ask me when!</font></p>
###### #### ######## ######## ######### #########
-->
<hr width="100%" />
<p><font face="helvetica"><b>Contact:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Walking up to me in the street and saying hello usually works but failing that try e-mailing me at:
<br /><b>Note:</b> You might not get a reply but I do read them all:
<br /></font></p>
<!--
################################################
-->
<!-- this weird construction should show my email address perfectly clearly whilst completely confusing any de-obfuscation scrips -->
<table width="400" bgcolor="#000000"><tr><td><font face="helvetica"><b>
<font color="#000000">@.@</font>
<font color="#FFFFFF">nicholas</font>
<font color="#000000">,</font>
<font color="#000000">.</font>
<font color="#FFFFFF">@</font>
<font color="#000000">,</font>
<font color="#000000">@@</font>
<font color="#000000">@@</font>
<font color="#010000">x</font>
<font color="#000000">.</font>
<font color="#FFFFFE">blachford</font>
<font color="#000000">@</font>
<font color="#FFFFFF">.</font>
<font color="#000100">@@</font>
<font color="#000000">.</font>
<font color="#FFFFFF">info</font>
<font color="#000000">.com</font>
</b></font></td></tr></table>
<hr width="100%" />
<p><font face="helvetica"><b>Stats:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Ever been on an ego trip? I have...</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica"><font color="#CC0000"><b>Slashdotted!</b></font>In 2005 I got a nice birthday present when the site record was set. A phenomenal 84,521 users read my article on the <a href="http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html">Cell architecture</a>. At it's height pages went out 5.5 times per second, despite this <i>only</i> 7.5 GB went out. It subsequently had the (dubious) honour of a Slashdot dupe - or 2. At time of writing (22/02/09) it has been read by over 600 000 people in more than 158 countries.
</font></p>
<hr width="100%" />
<p><font face="helvetica">Thank you for visiting, please come again.</font></p>
<p><font face="helvetica">Last change - 22th February 2009</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p>
<!-- Begin Personal Site Search Form -->
<!--
<form method=get action="/.search">
<input type="text" name="p" value="" size=18>
<input type="submit" name="name" value="Search">
</form>
-->
<!-- End Personal Site Search Form -->
</p>
<table>
<tr>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">Written by</font></td>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">in</font></td>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">on</font></td>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">hosted by</font></td>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">powered by</font></td>
<td align="center"><font face="helvetica">all for</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/hand.gif" alt="Hand" height="64" width="88" /></td>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/valid-xhtml10.png" alt="xhtml" height="31" width="88" /></td>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/be.gif" alt="BeOS" height="64" width="43" /></td>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/yahoo.png" alt="Yahoo" height="33" width="140" /></td>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/grolsch.png" alt="I need a drink" height="53" width="128" /></td>
<td valign="top"><img src="pics/mozillaB.png" alt="Roar" height="64" width="212" /></td>
</tr>
</table>
<!--
"The secret messages are calling to me endlessly,
They call to me across the air" - E.L.O.
-->
</body>
</html>
| xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?
Nicholas Blachford's even less Obsolete Home Page
| | |
| --- | --- |
| This picture is intentionally bad | Nicholas Blachford's
Home Page |
Hello,
Good morning, good evening, good whatever, and you are most welcome to my [home page](http://www.blachford.info/index.html) and web site.
Feel free to look around, there's all sorts of sometimes strange stuff which has been building up for years.
My name is Nicholas Blachford, or (apparently) ÐÐ¸ÐºÐ¾Ð»Ð°Ñ ÐлÑÑ
ÑоÑд. I live in Cambridge, England.
I was born in Singapore to English parents, grew up in Northern Ireland and have a British passport issued in the Netherlands and I used to live in Paris. There's probably a *wee* bit of Ulster-Scots thrown in for good measure as my Grandmother is from Northern Ireland. I think I am probably best described as foreign.
I used to live in Amsterdam which is the capital of Holland except the country is actually called the Netherlands and it apparently has two capitals (The Dutch love to confuse people). I also lived in Amersfoort, and briefly in the North of England near Yarm in a hamlet called Aislaby (I never did figure out how to pronounce it).
As you may notice I am an inventive sort of bloke with varied interests and yes I am a computer geek (or Kook as one web site once called me). I'm into the "alternative" computer scene (i.e. not Windows), mainly because I like using computers, not fighting them. I'm currently using a 13" MacBook and have a dinky litte Acer Aspire One *netbook* running Haiku, before it I had a dinky little 12" Apple PowerBook. I've previously used BeOS, Amiga, Linux and even Windows the odd time.
I'm also into Photography, Music (various artists), Movies (anything really but especially SciFi) and various other things at whim.
My PCs once had their own logos, firstly 
then  but I haven't given the others names / logos for years.
---
**More? -** you can find out more about me **[here](other/me.html)** (needs updating).
**Blog -** I gave in and have added a [**blog**](http://www.blachford.info/blog.html) (last entry 08/10/06). [Note: Fixed link]
[The Gallery](gallery/index.html) Paris is a very good place to live if you are into photography.
The Amiga [Walker](computer/walker/walker.html) pages are about a very rare prototype computer I managed to get hold of.
---
**Articles:**
Added an article on the [PhysX](http://www.blachford.info/computer/articles/PhysX1.html) physics chip.
A full list of articles can now be found in the appropriately titled [Articles](http://www.blachford.info/computer/articles/index.html) section.
**Inventive Articles:**
Could you really build The Matrix? Yes, I think you can not only build The Matrix, but you could do better, here is my idea for a virtual world called [The ADEX](computer/adex.html) that I dreamt up in 2001.
The badly titled [Neviong](http://www.blachford.info/computer/The_Source/ConsumerGame.html) is some musings about how to develop a Linux based media centre.
**For the Geeks...**
Have your chips and eat them in the [Computer](computer/index.html)
section with *Open source* Amiga and BeOS software..
There is an installer mock-up I did for the Linux distro [Yoper](http://www.yoper.com). This can be found in a section called [The Source](http://www.blachford.info/computer/The_Source/index.html).
Dug out from my hard disc is the 1999 *[Super Palm](computer/superpalm.html)* idea.
OSNews Show reports (all with pics):
**NEW! -** [BeGeistert 019](http://www.osnews.com/story/20651/BeGeistert_019_Alphaville)
[BeGeistert 008](http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert008/review.html)
[Amiga Expo 2002](http://www.blachford.info/computer/A-EXPO/AExpo.html)
[BeGeistert 010](http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert010/010review.html)
[CES 2003](http://www.blachford.info/computer/CES/CES2003.html)
[LinuxTag 2003](http://www.blachford.info/computer/LinuxTag2003/LinuxTagReport.html)
[BeGeistert012](http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert012/BeGeistert012_Review.html)
[Apple Expo Paris 2004](http://www.blachford.info/computer/Apple-ExpoFr04/AppleExpo04.html)
Most computer sits on it's arse doing mostly nothing all day so I thought I'd do something useful with it: It's now looking for Aliens...
I joined the [SETI](http://setiathome2.ssl.berkeley.edu/index.html) (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) project and am contributing units to it.
**Weird Science:**
[Sorted!](quantum/time.html) Time travel solved - (actually just the father-son paradox).
What's all this [UFO](other/ufo.html) nonsense?
If you want to know about real Physics (and UFOs!) I've written some short reviews of the
Books I've read along with other [stuff I like](other/stuff.html) (incudes TV & Films).
**Other:**
The [humour](other/aliens.html) section, and a new (2003)
[XMAS](pics/CardSmall.jpg) card, the [old](other/merryxmas.html) (1998?) card is there to.
What happened when [Kosh met Hal.](other/koshhal.html)
Can you [Hearit](other/hearit.html) ? - The Music section, with Lyrics.
Are you a [Blachford](other/blachford.html) ? - with Coat of Arms.
Who's [Looking](other/fame.html) ? -
This site gets all sorts of interesting visitors.
Going somewhere? Keep Surfing at my 1997 "vintage" [Links](other/links.html) page.
---
**Contact:**
Walking up to me in the street and saying hello usually works but failing that try e-mailing me at:
**Note:** You might not get a reply but I do read them all:
| |
| --- |
| **@.@
nicholas
,
.
@
,
@@
@@
x
.
blachford
@
.
@@
.
info
.com** |
---
**Stats:**
Ever been on an ego trip? I have...
**Slashdotted!**In 2005 I got a nice birthday present when the site record was set. A phenomenal 84,521 users read my article on the [Cell architecture](http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html). At it's height pages went out 5.5 times per second, despite this *only* 7.5 GB went out. It subsequently had the (dubious) honour of a Slashdot dupe - or 2. At time of writing (22/02/09) it has been read by over 600 000 people in more than 158 countries.
---
Thank you for visiting, please come again.
Last change - 22th February 2009
| | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Written by | in | on | hosted by | powered by | all for |
| Hand | xhtml | BeOS | Yahoo | I need a drink | Roar |
| http://www.blachford.info/ |
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<h3>Arnold Quotes </h3>
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<td width="49%"> <p align="center" class="headline">Straight from the horse's mouth. <br>
<br>
Check out these quoteS from Arnold Schwarzenegger </p> </td>
</tr>
</table> <p class="subtext">"My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger at 44 to <em>US News and World Report </em>in 1990. </p>
<p class="subtext">"People need somebody to watch over them... Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger at 44 to <em>US News and World Report </em>in 1990.
<p class="subtext"> "My friends don't want me to mention Kurt's name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy, but I love him and Maria does too, and so thank you, Kurt." <br>
<em>Arnold Schwarzenegger on his friend and fellow Austrian Kurt Waldheim, a Nazi war criminal </em>
<p class="subtext">"I was born to be a leader. I love the fact that millions of people look up to me." </p>
<p class="subtext">I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators and things like that. I was just always impressed by people who could be remembered for hundreds of years, or even, like Jesus, be for thousands of years remembered." <br>
<em>Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1977 film Pumping Iron</em></p> <p class="subtext"> "I saw this toilet bowl. How many times do you get away with this, to take a woman, grab her upside down, and bury her face in a toilet bowl? I wanted to have something floating there ... The thing is, you can do it, because in the end, I didn't do it to a woman, she's a machine! We could get away with it without being crucified by who-knows-what group." <br>
<em>Arnold Schwarzenegger describing a scene in Terminator 3 </em>
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Arnold Exposed
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| |
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Arnold Exposed, Save The Constitution](http://www.arnoldexposed.com)
[Expose Arnold.com](http://www.arnoldexposed.com)
|
| |
| |
| |
|
| | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
[Article 2 Section 5](about.htm#2)
[The Constitution](about.htm#constitution)
[Nazi Links](arnold.htm#nazi)
[Harassing Women](arnold.htm#women)
[Pornography](arnold.htm#drugs)
[Illegal Drugs](arnold.htm#drugs)
[Enron](arnold.htm#enron)
[Arnold Quotes](quotes.html)
[Articles](articles.html)
[About Us](about.htm)
[Donate](donate.html)
[Link To Us](link.htm)
[Get The Word Out](link.htm)
[Arnold Quotes](quotes.html)
[Contest](coverage.htm)
[Emails](emails.htm)
|
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| |
| --- |
|
Arnold Quotes
|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| | Straight from the horse's mouth.
Check out these quoteS from Arnold Schwarzenegger |
"My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger at 44 to *US News and World Report* in 1990.
"People need somebody to watch over them... Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger at 44 to *US News and World Report* in 1990.
"My friends don't want me to mention Kurt's name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy, but I love him and Maria does too, and so thank you, Kurt."
*Arnold Schwarzenegger on his friend and fellow Austrian Kurt Waldheim, a Nazi war criminal*
"I was born to be a leader. I love the fact that millions of people look up to me."
I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators and things like that. I was just always impressed by people who could be remembered for hundreds of years, or even, like Jesus, be for thousands of years remembered."
*Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1977 film Pumping Iron* "I saw this toilet bowl. How many times do you get away with this, to take a woman, grab her upside down, and bury her face in a toilet bowl? I wanted to have something floating there ... The thing is, you can do it, because in the end, I didn't do it to a woman, she's a machine! We could get away with it without being crucified by who-knows-what group."
*Arnold Schwarzenegger describing a scene in Terminator 3*
|
|
| |
|
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<TD><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#000000"> Generate your own Random Numbers using <a href="apps/rand/">RandGen</a>.
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Each week (or some semblence thereof) <I>real people</I> posing as astrologers try to determine your fate,
often while sober. They're guaranteed to be just as (in)accurate as those other guy's 'scopes,
but they're a lot more fun!
<BR CLEAR="ALL">
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="horoscopes_20010422.htm">Horoscopes by Sy Ambercrombie, Advertising Exec <NOBR>(Updated 04/22)</NOBR>
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<A HREF="horoscopes_20010408.htm">Last Week's Horoscopes</A><BR>
<A HREF="horoscopes_20010111.htm">Horoscopes by Dr. Sigmund Freud</A><BR>
<A HREF="horoscopes_20001027.htm">Horoscopes by Tony DelPino, Auto Mechanic</A><BR>
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<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="top_ten_20010516.htm">Top Ten Ways the Recession Is Affecting the Mafia
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<A HREF="top_ten_20001204.htm">Top Ten Nicknames Soldiers Have for Their ...</A><BR>
<A HREF="top_ten_20001023.htm">Top Ten Signs Your're a Spy</A><BR>
<A HREF="top_ten_20001015.htm">Top Ten Signs Your Landlord Was a 70's Porn Star</A><BR>
<A HREF="top_ten_20001012.htm">Top Ten Signs You're Too Drunk at a Wedding</A><BR>
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of your life you spend in front of the Almighty Tube. Come on in and join...
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<IMG SRC="jackinthebox.gif" ALT="Jack in the Box" ALIGN="LEFT" VSPACE="5" HSPACE="10" WIDTH="80" HEIGHT="80">
- Now you can <A HREF="apps/picalc/index.htm">Calculate Pi</A> in your very own home!<br>
- Generate your own <a href="apps/rand/index.htm">Random Numbers</a>!
<!--<A HREF="apps/picalc/index.htm"><IMG SRC="updated.gif" ALT="Updated" BORDER="0" ALIGN="MIDDLE" HSPACE="0"></A>-->
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- Bored at work? Why not play <A HREF="games/hangm/hangman.htm">masterpiece hangman</A>?
<A HREF="games/hangm/hangman.htm">
<!--<IMG SRC="newred.gif" ALT="New!" BORDER="0" ALIGN="MIDDLE" HSPACE="0">-->
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- Like Meterology? Now you can <A HREF="http://jasper.pisymbol.com/1984/temp.htm">monitor the weather in my house</A> 24 hours a day.
<A HREF="1984/temp.htm"></A>
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<IMG SRC="lightbulb_sm.gif" ALT="Lightbulb" ALIGN="LEFT" VSPACE="5" HSPACE="10" WIDTH="80" HEIGHT="84">
Here you can find some miscellaneous thoughts, ramblings, and ideas that I've had.
I may even include the occasional rant if I'm in the mood :-)
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<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="perfect_diner.htm">The Perfect Diner
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Take a look inside to hear some fun, amusing, and <I>true</I> stories from The Motherland.
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<IMG SRC="extra_sm.gif" ALT="Newspaper" ALIGN="LEFT" VSPACE="5" HSPACE="10" WIDTH="83" HEIGHT="80">
Enjoy good satire? None of these stories is true, but they're all kinda funny.
<BR CLEAR="ALL">
<A HREF="Adult_Movie.htm">Adult Movie Industry Shaken!</A><BR>
<A HREF="bionic_stu.htm">Six Million Dollar Starfish Found</A><BR>
<A HREF="MTM_and_Eloi.htm">New romance for Mary Tyler Moore?</A><BR>
<A HREF="nipple_data_compression.htm">New Compression Scheme to Revolutionize the WWW</A><BR>
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Did you ever want to know a little bit more about me? If you did, you can find it on my
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Last significant update: Feb 2, 2008.
<BR>
© 2002-2018 Eric 'Pi' Minbiole.<BR>Send feedback, comments, and questions to: <A HREF="mailto:webmaster@pisymbol.com">webmaster@pisymbol.com</A><BR>
Credit where credit's due: Check out some <a href="credits.htm">acknowledgements</a>.
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|
The Home of Pi: A collection of fun, humor, and games.
### A collection of fun, humor and games
| |
| --- |
| **Update...** |
| Generate your own Random Numbers using [RandGen](apps/rand/).
[New!](1984/temp.htm) |
|
| |
| --- |
| **From our World Famous astrologers:** |
Wheel of Fortune
Each week (or some semblence thereof) *real people* posing as astrologers try to determine your fate,
often while sober. They're guaranteed to be just as (in)accurate as those other guy's 'scopes,
but they're a lot more fun!
[Horoscopes by Sy Ambercrombie, Advertising Exec (Updated 04/22)](horoscopes_20010422.htm)
[Last Week's Horoscopes](horoscopes_20010408.htm)
[Horoscopes by Dr. Sigmund Freud](horoscopes_20010111.htm)
[Horoscopes by Tony DelPino, Auto Mechanic](horoscopes_20001027.htm)
[(Horoscope Archives)](horoscopes.htm)
| |
| --- |
| **Humor not written by Letterman:** |
[Top Ten Ways the Recession Is Affecting the Mafia](top_ten_20010516.htm)
[Top Ten Nicknames Soldiers Have for Their ...](top_ten_20001204.htm)
[Top Ten Signs Your're a Spy](top_ten_20001023.htm)
[Top Ten Signs Your Landlord Was a 70's Porn Star](top_ten_20001015.htm)
[Top Ten Signs You're Too Drunk at a Wedding](top_ten_20001012.htm)
[(Top Ten Archives)](top_ten.htm)
| |
| --- |
| **[TV Trivia:](tv_trivia.htm)** |
[TV Trivia](tv_trivia.htm)
Do you love classic shows like *Gilligan's Island* or
*Three's Company*? We host a daily TV Trivia game that's lots of fun, no matter how much
of your life you spend in front of the Almighty Tube. Come on in and join...
| |
| --- |
| **Silly Toys:** |
Jack in the Box
- Now you can [Calculate Pi](apps/picalc/index.htm) in your very own home!
- Generate your own [Random Numbers](apps/rand/index.htm)!
- Bored at work? Why not play [masterpiece hangman](games/hangm/hangman.htm)?
- Like Meterology? Now you can [monitor the weather in my house](http://jasper.pisymbol.com/1984/temp.htm) 24 hours a day.
|
| |
| --- |
| **Thoughts and Ideas:** |
Lightbulb
Here you can find some miscellaneous thoughts, ramblings, and ideas that I've had.
I may even include the occasional rant if I'm in the mood :-)
[The Perfect Diner](perfect_diner.htm)
[Solving World Hunger](solve_world_hunger.htm)
| |
| --- |
| **[Russian Stories:](russian_stories.htm)** |
[Russian Stories](russian_stories.htm)
Take a look inside to hear some fun, amusing, and *true* stories from The Motherland.
| |
| --- |
| **In the news:** |
Newspaper
Enjoy good satire? None of these stories is true, but they're all kinda funny.
[Adult Movie Industry Shaken!](Adult_Movie.htm)
[Six Million Dollar Starfish Found](bionic_stu.htm)
[New romance for Mary Tyler Moore?](MTM_and_Eloi.htm)
[New Compression Scheme to Revolutionize the WWW](nipple_data_compression.htm)
| |
| --- |
| **Really Boring [Personal Page](personal/index.htm):** |
[Bored](personal/index.htm)
Did you ever want to know a little bit more about me? If you did, you can find it on my
Really Boring Personal Page.
|
---
Wanna know more about us? Click below to
[Meet the Staff!](loyal_staff.htm)
Last significant update: Feb 2, 2008.
© 2002-2018 Eric 'Pi' Minbiole.
Send feedback, comments, and questions to: [webmaster@pisymbol.com](mailto:webmaster@pisymbol.com)
Credit where credit's due: Check out some [acknowledgements](credits.htm).
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<html><head><title>It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Movie</title><meta name=description content="Reviews of bad movies, for bad movie lovers."><meta name=keywords content="bad movies, bad films, reviews, bad movie reviews, movie reviews, turkey, turkeys, Ed Wood, Plan 9 From Outer Space"></head><body bgcolor="white" text="black">
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<center><p><img src="im/badmbnnr.gif" alt="It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Movie"><p><h4>By David J. Parker</h4></center><font size='-1'><em>Citizen Kane</em>. <em>Casablanca</em>. <em>Gone With the Wind</em>.
What do these movies have in common? They're all movies you won't find on
this page. Every single movie on this page is, in some fashion, a complete
stinker. And yet, these movies are not all the same. Some of them have a
certain appeal to the type of people (and I count myself among them) who
simply <em>like</em> bad movies. Sometimes I like a bad movie because it's fun
to laugh at, sometimes I just like to watch something brainless, and sometimes
I just like to see people make fools of themselves. If you're such a person,
you've come to the right place. This film review site is dedicated to
reviewing bad movies for bad movie lovers. The <a href="rat.shtml"><em>rating
scale</em></a> goes from one turkey to five turkeys. All of them equate to the
lowest rating on "normal" rating scales, but the higher the turkey rating,
the more I enjoyed and laughed at the movie.
For more information, see my <a href="intro.shtml"><em>unabridged
introduction</em></a>.<p>
<p>
</font><p align=right><a href="/"><img src="/im/rinkicon.gif" border=0 alt="RinkWorks"></a></p><hr><p><center><h3>Reader Reviews</h3></center><p><ul><li> <a href="reader/page1.shtml">Visit the reader reviews page</a> - Want to read more about bad movies? Check out what your fellow readers say about their own favorite bad movies.<li> <a href="submit.shtml">Submit your own review</a> - Do you have a favorite bad movie? Tell us about it!</ul><p><hr><p><center><h2>Bad Movie Reviews</h2><p><em>Latest additions: 4/15/03
<p>
</em></center><p><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?April%20Fool's%20Day%20(1986)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/april.fools.day.1986.shtml">April Fool's Day</a> (1986)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Barbarian%20Queen%20(1985)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/barbarian.queen.1985.shtml">Barbarian Queen</a> (1985)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Battlefield%20Earth%20(2000)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/battlefield.earth.2000.shtml">Battlefield Earth</a> (2000)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Billy%20the%20Kid%20Vs.%20Dracula%20(1966)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/billy.the.kid.vs.dracula.1966.shtml">Billy the Kid Vs. Dracula</a> (1966)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Blob,%20The%20(1988)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/the.blob.1988.shtml">The Blob</a> (1988)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Class%20of%201999%20(1990)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/class.of.1999.1990.shtml">Class of 1999</a> (1990)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk5.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:5.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Deathstalker%20(1984)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/deathstalker.1984.shtml">Deathstalker</a> (1984)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Deathstalker%20IV:%20Match%20of%20Titans%20(1990)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/deathstalker.iv.match.of.titans.1990.shtml">Deathstalker IV: Match of Titans</a> (1990)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Operation%20Monsterland%20(1968)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/destroy.all.monsters.1968.shtml">Destroy All Monsters</a> (1968)
<em>(aka: "Operation Monsterland")</em></td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Evil%20Dead,%20The%20(1982)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/the.evil.dead.1982.shtml">The Evil Dead</a> (1982)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Eyes%20of%20the%20Serpent%20(1994)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/eyes.of.the.serpent.1994.shtml">Eyes of the Serpent</a> (1994)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Friday%20the%2013th%20Part%203:%203D%20(1982)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/friday.the.13th.part.3.3d.1982.shtml">Friday the 13th Part 3: 3D</a> (1982)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Friday%20the%2013th%20Part%20V:%20A%20New%20Beginning%20(1985)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/friday.the.13th.part.v.a.new.beginning.1985.shtml">Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning</a> (1985)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Godzilla%20Vs.%20Gigan%20(1972)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/godzilla.vs.gigan.1972.shtml">Godzilla Vs. Gigan</a> (1972)
<em>(aka: "Godzilla on Monster Island")</em></td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Godzilla%20Vs.%20Mothra%20(1964)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/godzilla.vs.mothra.1964.shtml">Godzilla Vs. Mothra</a> (1964)
<em>(aka: "Godzilla Fights the Giant Moth")</em></td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Hackers%20(1995)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/hackers.1995.shtml">Hackers</a> (1995)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Hell%20Comes%20To%20Frogtown%20(1987)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/hell.comes.to.frogtown.1987.shtml">Hell Comes To Frogtown</a> (1987)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Quella%20villa%20accanto%20al%20cimitero%20(1981)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/house.by.the.cemetery.1981.shtml">House By the Cemetery</a> (1981)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?I%20Know%20What%20You%20Did%20Last%20Summer%20(1997)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/i.know.what.you.did.last.summer.1997.shtml">I Know What You Did Last Summer</a> (1997)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Ironmaster%20(1982)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/ironmaster.1982.shtml">Ironmaster</a> (1982)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Jack%20Frost%20(1997)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/jack.frost.1997.shtml">Jack Frost</a> (1997)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk5.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:5.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?KISS%20Meets%20the%20Phantom%20of%20the%20Park%20(1978)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/kiss.meets.the.phantom.of.the.park.1978.shtml">KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park</a> (1978)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Lawnmower%20Man%202:%20Beyond%20Cyberspace%20(1996)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/lawnmower.man.2.beyond.cyberspace.1996.shtml">Lawnmower Man 2: Beyond Cyberspace</a> (1996)
<em>(aka: "Lawnmower Man 2: Jobe's War")</em></td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Leprechaun%204:%20In%20Space%20(1996)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/leprechaun.4.in.space.1996.shtml">Leprechaun 4: In Space</a> (1996)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Leprechaun%20In%20the%20Hood%20(2000)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/leprechaun.in.the.hood.2000.shtml">Leprechaun In the Hood</a> (2000)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Lord%20of%20the%20Rings,%20The%20(1978)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/the.lord.of.the.rings.1978.shtml">The Lord of the Rings</a> (1978)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Mortuary%20(1984)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/mortuary.1984.shtml">Mortuary</a> (1984)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20(1979)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/phantasm.1979.shtml">Phantasm</a> (1979)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20II%20(1988)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/phantasm.ii.1988.shtml">Phantasm II</a> (1988)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20III:%20Lord%20of%20the%20Dead%20(1994)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/phantasm.iii.lord.of.the.dead.1994.shtml">Phantasm III: Lord of the Dead</a> (1994)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20IV:%20Oblivion%20(1998)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/phantasm.iv.oblivion.1998.shtml">Phantasm IV: Oblivion</a> (1998)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk5.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:5.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Plan%209%20From%20Outer%20Space%20(1959)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/plan.9.from.outer.space.1959.shtml">Plan 9 From Outer Space</a> (1959)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Runaway%20(1984)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/runaway.1984.shtml">Runaway</a> (1984)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?She%20(1985)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/she.1985.shtml">She</a> (1985)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Showgirls%20(1995)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/showgirls.1995.shtml">Showgirls</a> (1995)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk5.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:5.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Sinbad%20of%20the%20Seven%20Seas%20(1989)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/sinbad.of.the.seven.seas.1989.shtml">Sinbad of the Seven Seas</a> (1989)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Slumber%20Party%20Massacre,%20The%20(1982)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/the.slumber.party.massacre.1982.shtml">The Slumber Party Massacre</a> (1982)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Star%20Trek:%20Insurrection%20(1998)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/star.trek.insurrection.1998.shtml">Star Trek: Insurrection</a> (1998)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk3.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:3.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?They%20Live%20(1988)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/they.live.1988.shtml">They Live</a> (1988)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Toxic%20Avenger,%20The%20(1985)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/the.toxic.avenger.1985.shtml">The Toxic Avenger</a> (1985)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk1.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:1.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Virtual%20Combat%20(1996)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/virtual.combat.1996.shtml">Virtual Combat</a> (1996)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk4.5.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:4.5 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Wizards%20of%20the%20Demon%20Sword%20(1991)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/wizards.of.the.demon.sword.1991.shtml">Wizards of the Demon Sword</a> (1991)</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=middle><img src="im/indent.gif" alt=" "><a href="rat.shtml"><img src="im/turk2.0.gif" hspace=0 border=0 alt="[Rating:2.0 turkeys]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Yor,%20the%20Hunter%20From%20the%20Future%20(1982)"><img src="im/imdb.gif" hspace=11 border=0 alt="[IMDb]"></a></td><td valign=middle>
<a href="m/yor.the.hunter.from.the.future.1982.shtml">Yor, the Hunter From the Future</a> (1982)</td></tr>
</table><p><hr><p><center><h4>RinkWorks</h4></center><p><em>It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Movie</em> is a <a href="/"><em>RinkWorks</em></a> production. We invite you to <a href="/">visit our other sites</a>.<p>
<center><h4>Talk Back</h4></center><p>Talk to us! We'd love to hear from you. <a href="mailto:dave@rinkworks.com,sam@rinkworks.com">Send us email</a>. If you have a bad movie to recommend, however, rather than emailing us about it, why not review it instead on the <a href=submit.shtml>Reader Review Submission</a> page? Thanks!<p><center><h4>Legalese</h4></center><p>All film reviews on this page are Copyright © 1999-2005 by the original author of the review. The ratings and all other text on this site are Copyright © 1999-2002 by David J. Parker. The rating symbols are images which have been released into the public domain. No part of this page, except for the rating symbols, may be copied without prior written consent.<p><hr>
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#### By David J. Parker
*Citizen Kane*. *Casablanca*. *Gone With the Wind*.
What do these movies have in common? They're all movies you won't find on
this page. Every single movie on this page is, in some fashion, a complete
stinker. And yet, these movies are not all the same. Some of them have a
certain appeal to the type of people (and I count myself among them) who
simply *like* bad movies. Sometimes I like a bad movie because it's fun
to laugh at, sometimes I just like to watch something brainless, and sometimes
I just like to see people make fools of themselves. If you're such a person,
you've come to the right place. This film review site is dedicated to
reviewing bad movies for bad movie lovers. The [*rating
scale*](rat.shtml) goes from one turkey to five turkeys. All of them equate to the
lowest rating on "normal" rating scales, but the higher the turkey rating,
the more I enjoyed and laughed at the movie.
For more information, see my [*unabridged
introduction*](intro.shtml).
[](/)
---
### Reader Reviews
* [Visit the reader reviews page](reader/page1.shtml) - Want to read more about bad movies? Check out what your fellow readers say about their own favorite bad movies.* [Submit your own review](submit.shtml) - Do you have a favorite bad movie? Tell us about it!
---
## Bad Movie Reviews
*Latest additions: 4/15/03*
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [[Rating:1.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?April%20Fool's%20Day%20(1986)) | [April Fool's Day](m/april.fools.day.1986.shtml) (1986) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Barbarian%20Queen%20(1985)) | [Barbarian Queen](m/barbarian.queen.1985.shtml) (1985) |
| [[Rating:4.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Battlefield%20Earth%20(2000)) | [Battlefield Earth](m/battlefield.earth.2000.shtml) (2000) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Billy%20the%20Kid%20Vs.%20Dracula%20(1966)) | [Billy the Kid Vs. Dracula](m/billy.the.kid.vs.dracula.1966.shtml) (1966) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Blob,%20The%20(1988)) | [The Blob](m/the.blob.1988.shtml) (1988) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Class%20of%201999%20(1990)) | [Class of 1999](m/class.of.1999.1990.shtml) (1990) |
| [[Rating:5.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Deathstalker%20(1984)) | [Deathstalker](m/deathstalker.1984.shtml) (1984) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Deathstalker%20IV:%20Match%20of%20Titans%20(1990)) | [Deathstalker IV: Match of Titans](m/deathstalker.iv.match.of.titans.1990.shtml) (1990) |
| [[Rating:4.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Operation%20Monsterland%20(1968)) | [Destroy All Monsters](m/destroy.all.monsters.1968.shtml) (1968)
*(aka: "Operation Monsterland")* |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Evil%20Dead,%20The%20(1982)) | [The Evil Dead](m/the.evil.dead.1982.shtml) (1982) |
| [[Rating:4.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Eyes%20of%20the%20Serpent%20(1994)) | [Eyes of the Serpent](m/eyes.of.the.serpent.1994.shtml) (1994) |
| [[Rating:1.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Friday%20the%2013th%20Part%203:%203D%20(1982)) | [Friday the 13th Part 3: 3D](m/friday.the.13th.part.3.3d.1982.shtml) (1982) |
| [[Rating:1.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Friday%20the%2013th%20Part%20V:%20A%20New%20Beginning%20(1985)) | [Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning](m/friday.the.13th.part.v.a.new.beginning.1985.shtml) (1985) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Godzilla%20Vs.%20Gigan%20(1972)) | [Godzilla Vs. Gigan](m/godzilla.vs.gigan.1972.shtml) (1972)
*(aka: "Godzilla on Monster Island")* |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Godzilla%20Vs.%20Mothra%20(1964)) | [Godzilla Vs. Mothra](m/godzilla.vs.mothra.1964.shtml) (1964)
*(aka: "Godzilla Fights the Giant Moth")* |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Hackers%20(1995)) | [Hackers](m/hackers.1995.shtml) (1995) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Hell%20Comes%20To%20Frogtown%20(1987)) | [Hell Comes To Frogtown](m/hell.comes.to.frogtown.1987.shtml) (1987) |
| [[Rating:3.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Quella%20villa%20accanto%20al%20cimitero%20(1981)) | [House By the Cemetery](m/house.by.the.cemetery.1981.shtml) (1981) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?I%20Know%20What%20You%20Did%20Last%20Summer%20(1997)) | [I Know What You Did Last Summer](m/i.know.what.you.did.last.summer.1997.shtml) (1997) |
| [[Rating:4.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Ironmaster%20(1982)) | [Ironmaster](m/ironmaster.1982.shtml) (1982) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Jack%20Frost%20(1997)) | [Jack Frost](m/jack.frost.1997.shtml) (1997) |
| [[Rating:5.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?KISS%20Meets%20the%20Phantom%20of%20the%20Park%20(1978)) | [KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park](m/kiss.meets.the.phantom.of.the.park.1978.shtml) (1978) |
| [[Rating:1.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Lawnmower%20Man%202:%20Beyond%20Cyberspace%20(1996)) | [Lawnmower Man 2: Beyond Cyberspace](m/lawnmower.man.2.beyond.cyberspace.1996.shtml) (1996)
*(aka: "Lawnmower Man 2: Jobe's War")* |
| [[Rating:4.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Leprechaun%204:%20In%20Space%20(1996)) | [Leprechaun 4: In Space](m/leprechaun.4.in.space.1996.shtml) (1996) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Leprechaun%20In%20the%20Hood%20(2000)) | [Leprechaun In the Hood](m/leprechaun.in.the.hood.2000.shtml) (2000) |
| [[Rating:4.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Lord%20of%20the%20Rings,%20The%20(1978)) | [The Lord of the Rings](m/the.lord.of.the.rings.1978.shtml) (1978) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Mortuary%20(1984)) | [Mortuary](m/mortuary.1984.shtml) (1984) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20(1979)) | [Phantasm](m/phantasm.1979.shtml) (1979) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20II%20(1988)) | [Phantasm II](m/phantasm.ii.1988.shtml) (1988) |
| [[Rating:3.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20III:%20Lord%20of%20the%20Dead%20(1994)) | [Phantasm III: Lord of the Dead](m/phantasm.iii.lord.of.the.dead.1994.shtml) (1994) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Phantasm%20IV:%20Oblivion%20(1998)) | [Phantasm IV: Oblivion](m/phantasm.iv.oblivion.1998.shtml) (1998) |
| [[Rating:5.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Plan%209%20From%20Outer%20Space%20(1959)) | [Plan 9 From Outer Space](m/plan.9.from.outer.space.1959.shtml) (1959) |
| [[Rating:3.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Runaway%20(1984)) | [Runaway](m/runaway.1984.shtml) (1984) |
| [[Rating:3.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?She%20(1985)) | [She](m/she.1985.shtml) (1985) |
| [[Rating:1.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Showgirls%20(1995)) | [Showgirls](m/showgirls.1995.shtml) (1995) |
| [[Rating:5.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Sinbad%20of%20the%20Seven%20Seas%20(1989)) | [Sinbad of the Seven Seas](m/sinbad.of.the.seven.seas.1989.shtml) (1989) |
| [[Rating:3.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Slumber%20Party%20Massacre,%20The%20(1982)) | [The Slumber Party Massacre](m/the.slumber.party.massacre.1982.shtml) (1982) |
| [[Rating:2.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Star%20Trek:%20Insurrection%20(1998)) | [Star Trek: Insurrection](m/star.trek.insurrection.1998.shtml) (1998) |
| [[Rating:3.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?They%20Live%20(1988)) | [They Live](m/they.live.1988.shtml) (1988) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Toxic%20Avenger,%20The%20(1985)) | [The Toxic Avenger](m/the.toxic.avenger.1985.shtml) (1985) |
| [[Rating:1.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Virtual%20Combat%20(1996)) | [Virtual Combat](m/virtual.combat.1996.shtml) (1996) |
| [[Rating:4.5 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Wizards%20of%20the%20Demon%20Sword%20(1991)) | [Wizards of the Demon Sword](m/wizards.of.the.demon.sword.1991.shtml) (1991) |
| [[Rating:2.0 turkeys]](rat.shtml) | [[IMDb]](http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Yor,%20the%20Hunter%20From%20the%20Future%20(1982)) | [Yor, the Hunter From the Future](m/yor.the.hunter.from.the.future.1982.shtml) (1982) |
---
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<td><font color="#333333" size="-1" face="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Past, Present, and Future of Water Filtration Technology</font></td>
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<a href="http://www.historyofwaterfilters.com/">The History of Water Filters</a> |
<a href="water-treatment.html">Water Treatment Alternatives</a> |
<a href="drinking-water.html">How Safe is Your Drinking Water?</a>
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The History of Water Filters > Early Water Treatment
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<u>Early Water Treatment</u><br><br>
<font size="-1"> The earliest recorded attempts to find or generate
pure water date back to 2000 b.c.e.. Early <a href="biography-glossary.html" target="blank">Sanskrit</a>
writings outlined methods for purifying water. These methods
ranged from boiling or placing hot metal instruments in water
before drinking it to filtering that water through crude sand
or charcoal filters (Baker & Taras, 1981). These writings suggest
that the major motive in purifying water was to provide better
tasting drinking water. It was assumed that good tasting water
was also clean. People did not yet connect impure water with
disease nor did they have the technology necessary to recognize
tasteless yet harmful organisms and sentiments in water. <br>
<br>
Centuries later, <a href="biography-glossary.html" target="blank">Hippocrates</a>,
the famed father of medicine, began to conduct his own experiments
in water purification. He created the theory of the four humors,
or essential fluids, of the body that related directly to the
four temperatures of the seasons. According to Hippocrates,
in order to maintain good health, these four humors should be
kept in balance. As a part of his theory of the four humors,
Hippocrates recognized the healing power of water. For feverish
patients, he often recommended a bath in cool water. Such a
bath would realign the temperature and harmony of the four humors.
Hippocrates acknowledged that the water available in Greek aqueducts
was far from pure in its quality. Like the ancients before him,
Hippocrates also believed good taste in water meant cleanliness
and purity of that water. Hippocrates designed his own crude
water filter to purify the water he used for his patients.
Later known as the Hippocratic sleeve, this filter was a cloth
bag through which water could be poured after being boiled (Baker
& Taras, 1981). The cloth would trap any sentiments in the water
that were causing bad taste or smell. <br>
<br>
<a href="water-why-dirty.html">Previous Page</a>
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<strong>The History of Water Filters</strong><br>
<a href="http://www.historyofwaterfilters.com/">Introduction</a><br>
<a href="water-why-dirty.html">How did our water get so dirty?</a><br>
<u>Early Water Treatment</u><br>
<a href="water-treatment-past.html">Water Treatment in the Middle Ages</a><br>
<a href="water-discovery.html">A Great Discovery in Water Filtration History</a><br>
<a href="microscope-in-water.html">The Use of the Microscope in Water Filter History</a><br>
<a href="municipal-water.html">The Advent of Municipal Water Treatment</a><br>
<a href="water-filter-technology.html">The Effect of the Scottish Enlightenment on Water Filter Technology</a><br>
<a href="use-of-chlorine.html">The Use of Chlorine to Purify Water</a><br>
<a href="clean-water-act.html">The Clean Water Act of 1972</a><br>
<a href="water-filters-present.html">Water Filtration in the Present - Whole House Water Filter Systems</a><br>
<a href="water-filtration-future.html">The Future of Water Filtration</a><br>
<a href="references-1.html">References</a>
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Early Water Treatment
The earliest recorded attempts to find or generate
pure water date back to 2000 b.c.e.. Early [Sanskrit](biography-glossary.html)
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Later known as the Hippocratic sleeve, this filter was a cloth
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& Taras, 1981). The cloth would trap any sentiments in the water
that were causing bad taste or smell.
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[Introduction](http://www.historyofwaterfilters.com/)
[How did our water get so dirty?](water-why-dirty.html)
Early Water Treatment
[Water Treatment in the Middle Ages](water-treatment-past.html)
[A Great Discovery in Water Filtration History](water-discovery.html)
[The Use of the Microscope in Water Filter History](microscope-in-water.html)
[The Advent of Municipal Water Treatment](municipal-water.html)
[The Effect of the Scottish Enlightenment on Water Filter Technology](water-filter-technology.html)
[The Use of Chlorine to Purify Water](use-of-chlorine.html)
[The Clean Water Act of 1972](clean-water-act.html)
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[The Future of Water Filtration](water-filtration-future.html)
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>The Haunted Hospital of Manzanillo</title>
<base target="_blank">
</head>
<body>
<p align="center"><img border="0" src="cvr.jpg" width="810" height="114"></p>
<p><img border="0" src="cvr1.jpg" align="left" width="469" height="361"><font size="4">It was October 9, 1995 at 9:37 a.m. The ground
began to tremble and roar, like an underground explosion--then undulate up and
down, like large waves rocking a small boat. Then the sounds of breaking glass,
screeching tires, and screams of terror. It was a 7.9 earthquake (some say 8.0),
the epicenter 18 miles off the coast of Manzanillo. A hotel collapsed ("pancaked"),
killing 38, a shopping center partially caved in, killing 8 including the police
chief, and the IMSS hospital, 100% occupied, had to be evacuated. Patients,
whether on life support, in labor, terminally ill or in the emergency room had
to vacate the shaking and moving structure immediately.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Built in 1981, the "social security hospital" or</font>
IMSS <font size="4">(<span lang="es" xml:lang="es"><i><b>Instituto Mexicano del
Seguro Social</b></i></span>), located on Blvd. Miguel de la Madrid across from
the Hotel Marbella, has been abandoned ever since. On the 15th anniversary of
the temblor, a group of Manzanillo citizens convened at 9 p.m. under the cover
of darkness to explore the "haunted hospital."</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Armed with several cameras, a tape recorder, ultrasonic
receiver*, and long distance infrared temperature probe (heat/cold sensing
equipment) the brave group ranged in age from 22-67, with one member
remembering her aunt who died at 22 in the collapse of the Hotel Costa Real.</font></p>
<p align="center"><font size="2"><i>Please click on photos to enlarge</i></font></p>
<table cellPadding="10" width="100%">
<tr>
<td>*An ultrasonic receiver detects sounds beyond the range of human
hearing, from about 25kHz-30kHz, and allows you to hear and pinpoint
mechanical and electrical sounds such as leaking gases, air, corona, motor
friction noises, etc. This device is <b><i>not</i></b> made to hear sounds
that the human ear can normally perceive, but instead it will hear
ultrasound beyond the range of human hearing. It is one of the devices used
by paranormal investigators to pinpoint otherworldly sounds.</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size="4">Just before entering, one of the "investigators,"
Susan Dearing, carefully checked her cameras. Prior to arrival, they were also
checked at home, and with both their batteries fully charged, and each with 2
gig cards, both Olympus Stylus 1030SWs were deemed ready to go. Now neither
camera would work. While she tried removing the batteries and replacing them,
opening and closing the battery cover, turning on and off the camera, she had no
results. Very disappointing, she thought, frustrated, and put one camera away in
her fanny pack, while keeping the other handy to try it again later.</font></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><font size="4">
<a href="ext.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smext.jpg" align="left" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
<td width="56%"><font size="4">
The ghost hunters climbed the steps to the lobby at 9:15, walking carefully
on the broken glass and stepping around other debris that hadn't been
disturbed for 15 years. A security guard normally stands outside at a small
kiosk, but declined to enter after he was told that the last security guard died
of an aneurysm (stroke) after entering the building a few years back. Rumor was
that he was scared to death, according to Roberto Soberano, reporter for Radio
Levy, who was our guide for the adventure to the other side.</font></td>
<td width="22%"><font size="4">
<a href="extgarage.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smextgarage.jpg" align="right" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><a href="1floor1.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm1floor1.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="56%"><font size="4">
The ghost hunters climbed the steps to the lobby at 9:15 p.m.,
walking carefully on the broken glass and stepping around other debris that
hadn't been disturbed for 15 years. A security guard normally stands outside at a small
kiosk, but declined to enter after being told that the last security guard died
of an aneurysm (stroke) after entering the building a few years back. Rumor was
that he was scared to death, according to Roberto Soberano, reporter for Radio
Levy, who was our guide for the adventure to the other side.</font></td>
<td width="22%"><a href="1floor7.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm1floor7.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><a href="1floor8.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm1floor8.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="56%"><font size="4">Once inside, Susan tried her camera again, and it was working
perfectly, so she immediately started snapping pictures. Though she had no idea
why both cameras ceased working at the same time, at least she had plenty of
space on the card for as many photos as she could take. The Olympus stylus has
a special setting called "Shoot and Select," which allows the operator
to continue to hold down the shutter button, and the camera will continue to
take sequential pictures. And her recorder, also an Olympus (PearlcorderS702)
was running silently.</font></td>
<td width="22%"><a href="1floor6.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm1floor6.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><a href="1foor2.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm1foor2.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="56%"><font size="4">
Almost immediately Diane Johnson heard something make a "clunk" and fall.
But it wasn't in the hospital; it was in the small atrium surrounded by the
hallways that led to the various rooms. Buzz Teter walked over and got a
reading on his receiver. Buzz aimed his meter in the direction of the sound,
and it went crazy! Totally unidentifiable sounds--like an old typewriter
typing, squirrels chattering, popcorn popping, monkeys screeching, birds
chirping--it couldn't have been any of those things, but the weird noises
were there! And the recorder kept on running silently...</font></td>
<td width="22%"><font size="4">
<a href="pinkecto4.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto4.jpg" align="left" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size="4">
As everyone progressed through the building, suddenly Buzz yelled, "Holy crap,"
as he came upon a spot that was even louder than the previous noise. Buzz was
sure it wasn't bats, but no one was exactly sure just what it was. Then,
instantly, it stopped, and everything was totally quiet, and the strange noises
were not to be heard in that same spot again. </font></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><font size="4">
<a href="hotspot.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smhotspot.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
<td width="56%"><font size="4">
In another area, Buzz found another "hot spot" in the floor! More strange,
unidentifiable sounds, with no idea what they were, other than the fact that
Buzz said, "They definitely are not bats!" Ray Alley, with his infrared heat
sensor found the spot near a chair was 5 degrees cooler than the surrounding
area. A tremendous amount of noise and temperature change was happening in
an area where there was nothing but clean cement! And the recorder kept on
running silently...</font></td>
<td width="22%">
<p align="center"><font size="4">
<a href="2floor1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="sm2floor1.jpg" align="left" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><a href="stairs2ndflr.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smstairs2ndflr.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="56%">
<p><font size="4">
Climbing up the stairs to the next floor, the group came
across an unusual construction anomaly. The stairs were built separate from the
main structure. In looking up at the support attached to the building, you could
see that the supports on the stairs had moved. The problem, in looking at the
supports is that the one on the left moved to the right, and the one on the
right moved to the left. If the earthquake had been at fault, it would have
jogged one way or the other, but not both toward the center. "Was it
Mexican construction, or?" Buzz asked.</font></p>
</td>
<td width="22%"><a href="stairsupport.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smstairsupport.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><font size="4">
<a href="mango.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smmango.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></font></td>
<td width="56%">
<p><font size="4">
As we got to the floor that housed the terminally ill patients (Susan had a
friend who died on that floor prior to the earthquake), they came across an
unusual site: A mango sprout growing out of a piece of bed foam. It looked so
incongruous and forlorn, living alone by itself in a deserted hospital, not even
anchored in dirt. Where does it get its moisture? How did the seed get there in
the first place?</font></p>
</td>
<td width="22%"><a href="beds.jpg"><img border="0" src="smbeds.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber1">
<tr>
<td width="22%"><a href="2floor.jpg"><img border="0" src="sm2floor.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="56%">
<p><font size="4">
Suddenly Roberto said, "This is the creepy place. I can
feel it." It was, of course, the part of the hospital with the most pain
and death, the terminal ward. This was the last stop on this earth for hundreds
of patients over the hospital's 15-year history before the quake.</font></p>
<p><font size="4"> Stephanie Soberano, daughter of Roberto, asked Susan to call
out to any "spirits" that might be present. Fortunately or
unfortunately--depending on your point of view--there was no answer that the
group heard--yet. </font></p>
</td>
<td width="22%"><a href="cot.jpg"><img border="0" src="smcot.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="records.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smrecords.jpg" width="135" height="180"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="babybottles.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smbabybottles.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p align="left">More unusual things, though not necessarily ghostly: <b>1)</b>
all of the hospital's records, prescriptions and other data were left in piles,
just dumped, ranging from the 1980s; <b>2)</b> IV fluids, new in
bottles and bags; <b>3)</b> new glass baby
bottles, with pink and blue caps; <b>4)</b> new test tubes and
ampoules (used when mixing medicine for injections); <b>5)</b> new syringes still
in sterile packages; <b>6)</b> various medicines, such as
tablets for parasites; <b>7)</b> hundreds of refillable, large medicine bottles.</p>
</td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="bottles.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smbottles.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="babyshoe.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smbabyshoe.jpg" width="135" height="180"></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="IVbottles.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smIVbottles.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="1floor5.jpg">
<img border="0" src="sm1floor5.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="files.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smfiles.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="20%" align="center">
<a href="testtubes.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smtesttubes.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size="4">
<a href="shoe.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smshoe.jpg" align="left" width="180" height="135"></a><a href="shoes.jpg"><img border="0" src="smshoes.jpg" align="right" width="180" height="135"></a>In one open area of the hospital, a nurse's white shoe still
remains in the middle of the floor, as if she ran out of her shoes. In a corner,
possibly where the nurses' counter used to be, several nurses shoes, rubber flip
flops, and a child's shoe remain, discarded as if the owners had no time to get
them on before fleeing the building. And the recorder kept on running
silently...</font></p>
<p><font size="4">The exploration of the haunted hospital ended about midnight,
only to find the security guard gone, and the abandoned building silent, with
only the sound of the street echoing off the walls.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Later, at home, in a dark and silent house, Susan played back
the recording. Though not a lot happened in the hospital that anyone was aware
of--only one cold spot--no ghostly moans or cries--there was
something definitely caught on tape. And the photos held their own mysteries.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Throughout both sides of the micro-cassette, there were
several frequent, repeated sounds, not heard by any of the group, and not at
regular intervals. One sounded like a filing of fingernails--just twice, back
and forth, popping up over and over and blocking out the sounds made by the
group. Another similar sound, which sounded like kid's sand blocks rubbed
together--just twice--continues sporadically throughout the tape, but the closer
to the time when Roberto says, "This is the creepy place," the 2 different
sounds continue louder, and with greater frequency, totally obliterating any
talking or noise made by the ghost hunters. </font></p>
<p><font size="4">Added to that is another sound--almost like a 2-way radio with
a high-volume squelch--or somewhat like a roaring scream. Beginning at the
"Creepy Place," or the terminal ward, and ending when the group left the ward,
it also blotted out the voices and noise of the entire group. There were other
sounds recorded throughout the 1 hour tape, such as repeated hits with a pipe,
clinks and clangs, but it's not certain if the group inadvertently made those
sounds. The strange noises did, however, seem to get louder and more frequent at
the "Creepy Place." Only another trip on Halloween will tell for sure.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Another anomaly on the tape, which was very odd, especially to
Susan, occurred when the group arrived on the second floor, and noted a plant
growing out of a piece of foam, the type used in cushions and beds. Upon seeing
the plant, Susan commented, "It's growing on a piece of foam," but
immediately after the word "foam," two more complete words,
"foam, foam" were heard in Susan's voice. She did not say
"foam" 3 times. Then, after the repeated word "foam," came
the radio-squelch-like sound, several times, each time between 2 & 7
seconds. Added in between that was the "fingernail file" sound and the
"sand blocks" sound, increasing in intensity and succession, until
Roberto says, "This is the creepy place. I can
feel it." The crescendo of sounds diminished, then ended after leaving the
terminal ward--for a while.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">As far as the photos go, judge for yourself. They enlarge, so
check them over carefully, and <a href="mailto:info@gomanzanillo.com">e-mail</a>
if you'd like your opinion made part of this story. There is still room to
explore the Haunted Hospital this October 31.</font></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="buzzpinkorb.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smbuzzpinkorb.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsmoving.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsmoving.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center">
<p align="center"><a href="orangewhiteorbs.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorangewhiteorbs.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="extbush.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smextbush.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>Photos above, left to right: 1) Emergency entrance, Buzz checking for sounds. Note
the swirling pink mist around Buzz and the huge orb between Buzz and Ray Alley;
2) Large bright light is from a flashlight, but what are the tiny moving orbs in
the photo? The flashlight, the door threshold, and the person's foot is
stationary. The orbs are moving, leaving a trail, and upon close examination,
some of the trails are straight, while others are curved. The anomaly was not
from camera motion; 3) A white and an orange orb taken with Diane's Sony camera;
4) Notice the small white orbs floating around the bushes outside the entrance.
Whatever the phenomena, orbs seem to prefer shrubs and trees in this location.
What was unique was the ABSENCE of orbs in the 300 photos that were taken, and
in some photos, with both the building and bushes, the orbs were always in the
bushes.</p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed1.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed2.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed2.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed3.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed3.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed4.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed4.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed5.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed5.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="orbsweed6.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smorbsweed6.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center">
<p align="left">Using the "Shoot & Select" feature on the camera, more than
25 photos of this area were taken in rapid succession. This is the first 7.
Only on the first photo do numerous orbs appear. The white in the upper left
corner of the last 4 photos is the tip of a finger.</td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto1.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto2.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto2.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto3.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto3.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto5.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto5.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="pinkecto4.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smpinkecto4.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="tree1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smtree1.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="tree.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smtree.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>Above 2 rows, left to right: (the first 6 photos--out of 12--using "Shoot and
Select"), show a pink anomaly that appears to be shining on the vine. The second
photo is lightly tinged with pink, but in the successive 10 photos (only 6 shown
here), everything appears normal, except for some very small and transparent
orbs off toward the middle-to-right side of the photos. The last 2 photos of a
large ficus tree show more small orbs. </p>
<p><font size="4">There's a heavy debate out there of what orbs really are. They
could be dust particles, mist or rain reflected by the camera, or a variety of
other wind borne agents, such as pollens, insects, hair, or ash. A flash
reflects off these objects and produces an "orb." If you try, it is relatively
easy to reproduce orbs with a camera. Shake something heavy with dust, and take
a flash photo. You'll get orbs. In most of the photos taken in the hospital,
there wasn't an orb in sight, although, obviously, it was dirty and dusty. In
just a few photos, however, there seems to be something unique, and when taking
many photos of the same subject, the anomaly did not appear again.</font></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="ecto1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smecto1.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="ecto.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smecto.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="trees.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smtrees.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
<td width="25%" align="center"><a href="ext2.jpg">
<img border="0" src="smext2.jpg" width="180" height="135"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>Above, the first 2 photos seem to show a shape forming and then peaking out
from behind a support column. Perhaps it is a reflection off the beam--or not.
A closer look at the enlarged photo shows an orange orb to the right of it in
the lower left quadrant. In the third photo, small orbs seem to like the fichus trees outside of the
hospital. The last photo is of the outside of the hospital. Taken with a flash
at midnight, there are a few small orbs visible, which could have been from dust
or sea mist.</p>
<p><font size="4">Inside, Buzz tried an experiment (because he's had a unique
experience with orbs himself). Recently, during a strong wind, an old, huge
fichus tree fell on his truck. This was during the daytime, and he took photos
for insurance purposes. Oddly, moving orbs were everywhere--and this was during
the day. He surmised that the orbs, whatever they were-- were "living" in the
tree, and the tree's falling stirred them up. </font></p>
<p><font size="4">In the hospital courtyard, stands a huge fichus. If whatever
these things are, they actually live in the tree, he thought. Hitting the tree
would surely shake them up and bring them out. Successive photos were taken
before and after the smacking of the tree with a scrap piece of wood. Out of 25
photos before and after, not a single orb appeared to anyone--nor to the eye of
the camera. One would think that hitting on a huge, dusty fichus tree in a
building courtyard that hasn't been occupied for 15 years would bring out the
orbs--whether ghostly or dust particles--in droves, but it was not to be. The mysterious globes only appeared when
they wanted to.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Prior to this ghost hunt in the "Haunted Hospital," Susan
tried various other locations, such as her house, yard, restaurants, cemeteries,
and sites where she knew deaths occurred. Only where deaths occurred (and
cemeteries) did orbs appear in her photos. That is not to say that the orbs are
spirits, or spirit energy. No one really knows and there are many opinions out
there on the internet.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Are there spirits haunting the old social security hospital?
It would seem so, although most of the ghost hunters who visited on October 9
don't really believe in them, but after experiencing the eerie terminal ward, it
is hard to say the <i>fantasmas</i> aren't there either. After reviewing the
tape and photos, it seems likely that another expedition into the unknown will
take place--and what better night to honor those tortured souls left to wander
the halls of the silent hospital, but Halloween?</font></p>
<p><font size="4">The October 31 adventure was odd in several ways. First, one
of the ghost hunters was the child who survived the collapse of the Hotel Costa
Real in 1995, though both of her parents were killed. Another strange thing was
that the group explored a totally different part of the hospital--including the
crematory and morgue--and were unable to find the one part of the building they
were originally in on Oct. 9: the terminal ward. Since most of the unusual
experiences happened in that section of the building, they were hoping to leave
a camera and recorder set up there while they continued exploring elsewhere, but
never did find the room. That was unusual since the majority of the people from
the first expedition on Oct. 9 were there for a second time, and NONE of them
could find the spot.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Three particularly strange photos shot less than a second apart
were taken on Halloween night. (Photos enlarge by clicking) </font></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="100%" id="AutoNumber2">
<tr>
<td width="33%">
<p align="center"><a href="../oct31/31movingorbs2.jpg">
<img border="0" src="../oct31/sm31movingorbs2.jpg" width="327" height="243"></a></td>
<td width="33%"><a href="../oct31/31movingorbs1.jpg">
<img border="0" src="../oct31/sm31movingorbs1.jpg" width="327" height="243"></a></td>
<td width="34%"><a href="../oct31/31movingorbs.jpg">
<img border="0" src="../oct31/sm31movingorbs.jpg" width="327" height="243"></a></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size="4">As for the voice recorder, intermittently throughout the tape
above the voices of the group, you can hear typical sounds of a working
hospital: carts rolling, papers shuffled, clangs of metal upon metal, glass
breaking or crashing to the floor--all caught on tape when the group heard
absolutely nothing.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">
<a href="mailto:susan@gomanzanillo.com?subject=Haunted Hospital">E-mail</a> if
you'd like to join this Oct. 31, 2011.</font></p>
</body>
</html> |
The Haunted Hospital of Manzanillo
It was October 9, 1995 at 9:37 a.m. The ground
began to tremble and roar, like an underground explosion--then undulate up and
down, like large waves rocking a small boat. Then the sounds of breaking glass,
screeching tires, and screams of terror. It was a 7.9 earthquake (some say 8.0),
the epicenter 18 miles off the coast of Manzanillo. A hotel collapsed ("pancaked"),
killing 38, a shopping center partially caved in, killing 8 including the police
chief, and the IMSS hospital, 100% occupied, had to be evacuated. Patients,
whether on life support, in labor, terminally ill or in the emergency room had
to vacate the shaking and moving structure immediately.
Built in 1981, the "social security hospital" or
IMSS (***Instituto Mexicano del
Seguro Social***), located on Blvd. Miguel de la Madrid across from
the Hotel Marbella, has been abandoned ever since. On the 15th anniversary of
the temblor, a group of Manzanillo citizens convened at 9 p.m. under the cover
of darkness to explore the "haunted hospital."
Armed with several cameras, a tape recorder, ultrasonic
receiver\*, and long distance infrared temperature probe (heat/cold sensing
equipment) the brave group ranged in age from 22-67, with one member
remembering her aunt who died at 22 in the collapse of the Hotel Costa Real.
*Please click on photos to enlarge*
| |
| --- |
| \*An ultrasonic receiver detects sounds beyond the range of human
hearing, from about 25kHz-30kHz, and allows you to hear and pinpoint
mechanical and electrical sounds such as leaking gases, air, corona, motor
friction noises, etc. This device is ***not*** made to hear sounds
that the human ear can normally perceive, but instead it will hear
ultrasound beyond the range of human hearing. It is one of the devices used
by paranormal investigators to pinpoint otherworldly sounds. |
Just before entering, one of the "investigators,"
Susan Dearing, carefully checked her cameras. Prior to arrival, they were also
checked at home, and with both their batteries fully charged, and each with 2
gig cards, both Olympus Stylus 1030SWs were deemed ready to go. Now neither
camera would work. While she tried removing the batteries and replacing them,
opening and closing the battery cover, turning on and off the camera, she had no
results. Very disappointing, she thought, frustrated, and put one camera away in
her fanny pack, while keeping the other handy to try it again later.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
|
The ghost hunters climbed the steps to the lobby at 9:15, walking carefully
on the broken glass and stepping around other debris that hadn't been
disturbed for 15 years. A security guard normally stands outside at a small
kiosk, but declined to enter after he was told that the last security guard died
of an aneurysm (stroke) after entering the building a few years back. Rumor was
that he was scared to death, according to Roberto Soberano, reporter for Radio
Levy, who was our guide for the adventure to the other side. |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| |
The ghost hunters climbed the steps to the lobby at 9:15 p.m.,
walking carefully on the broken glass and stepping around other debris that
hadn't been disturbed for 15 years. A security guard normally stands outside at a small
kiosk, but declined to enter after being told that the last security guard died
of an aneurysm (stroke) after entering the building a few years back. Rumor was
that he was scared to death, according to Roberto Soberano, reporter for Radio
Levy, who was our guide for the adventure to the other side. | |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | Once inside, Susan tried her camera again, and it was working
perfectly, so she immediately started snapping pictures. Though she had no idea
why both cameras ceased working at the same time, at least she had plenty of
space on the card for as many photos as she could take. The Olympus stylus has
a special setting called "Shoot and Select," which allows the operator
to continue to hold down the shutter button, and the camera will continue to
take sequential pictures. And her recorder, also an Olympus (PearlcorderS702)
was running silently. | |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| |
Almost immediately Diane Johnson heard something make a "clunk" and fall.
But it wasn't in the hospital; it was in the small atrium surrounded by the
hallways that led to the various rooms. Buzz Teter walked over and got a
reading on his receiver. Buzz aimed his meter in the direction of the sound,
and it went crazy! Totally unidentifiable sounds--like an old typewriter
typing, squirrels chattering, popcorn popping, monkeys screeching, birds
chirping--it couldn't have been any of those things, but the weird noises
were there! And the recorder kept on running silently... |
|
As everyone progressed through the building, suddenly Buzz yelled, "Holy crap,"
as he came upon a spot that was even louder than the previous noise. Buzz was
sure it wasn't bats, but no one was exactly sure just what it was. Then,
instantly, it stopped, and everything was totally quiet, and the strange noises
were not to be heard in that same spot again.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
|
In another area, Buzz found another "hot spot" in the floor! More strange,
unidentifiable sounds, with no idea what they were, other than the fact that
Buzz said, "They definitely are not bats!" Ray Alley, with his infrared heat
sensor found the spot near a chair was 5 degrees cooler than the surrounding
area. A tremendous amount of noise and temperature change was happening in
an area where there was nothing but clean cement! And the recorder kept on
running silently... |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| |
Climbing up the stairs to the next floor, the group came
across an unusual construction anomaly. The stairs were built separate from the
main structure. In looking up at the support attached to the building, you could
see that the supports on the stairs had moved. The problem, in looking at the
supports is that the one on the left moved to the right, and the one on the
right moved to the left. If the earthquake had been at fault, it would have
jogged one way or the other, but not both toward the center. "Was it
Mexican construction, or?" Buzz asked. | |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
|
As we got to the floor that housed the terminally ill patients (Susan had a
friend who died on that floor prior to the earthquake), they came across an
unusual site: A mango sprout growing out of a piece of bed foam. It looked so
incongruous and forlorn, living alone by itself in a deserted hospital, not even
anchored in dirt. Where does it get its moisture? How did the seed get there in
the first place? | |
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| |
Suddenly Roberto said, "This is the creepy place. I can
feel it." It was, of course, the part of the hospital with the most pain
and death, the terminal ward. This was the last stop on this earth for hundreds
of patients over the hospital's 15-year history before the quake.
Stephanie Soberano, daughter of Roberto, asked Susan to call
out to any "spirits" that might be present. Fortunately or
unfortunately--depending on your point of view--there was no answer that the
group heard--yet. | |
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | More unusual things, though not necessarily ghostly: **1)**
all of the hospital's records, prescriptions and other data were left in piles,
just dumped, ranging from the 1980s; **2)** IV fluids, new in
bottles and bags; **3)** new glass baby
bottles, with pink and blue caps; **4)** new test tubes and
ampoules (used when mixing medicine for injections); **5)** new syringes still
in sterile packages; **6)** various medicines, such as
tablets for parasites; **7)** hundreds of refillable, large medicine bottles. | | |
| | | | |
[](shoe.jpg)[](shoes.jpg)In one open area of the hospital, a nurse's white shoe still
remains in the middle of the floor, as if she ran out of her shoes. In a corner,
possibly where the nurses' counter used to be, several nurses shoes, rubber flip
flops, and a child's shoe remain, discarded as if the owners had no time to get
them on before fleeing the building. And the recorder kept on running
silently...
The exploration of the haunted hospital ended about midnight,
only to find the security guard gone, and the abandoned building silent, with
only the sound of the street echoing off the walls.
Later, at home, in a dark and silent house, Susan played back
the recording. Though not a lot happened in the hospital that anyone was aware
of--only one cold spot--no ghostly moans or cries--there was
something definitely caught on tape. And the photos held their own mysteries.
Throughout both sides of the micro-cassette, there were
several frequent, repeated sounds, not heard by any of the group, and not at
regular intervals. One sounded like a filing of fingernails--just twice, back
and forth, popping up over and over and blocking out the sounds made by the
group. Another similar sound, which sounded like kid's sand blocks rubbed
together--just twice--continues sporadically throughout the tape, but the closer
to the time when Roberto says, "This is the creepy place," the 2 different
sounds continue louder, and with greater frequency, totally obliterating any
talking or noise made by the ghost hunters.
Added to that is another sound--almost like a 2-way radio with
a high-volume squelch--or somewhat like a roaring scream. Beginning at the
"Creepy Place," or the terminal ward, and ending when the group left the ward,
it also blotted out the voices and noise of the entire group. There were other
sounds recorded throughout the 1 hour tape, such as repeated hits with a pipe,
clinks and clangs, but it's not certain if the group inadvertently made those
sounds. The strange noises did, however, seem to get louder and more frequent at
the "Creepy Place." Only another trip on Halloween will tell for sure.
Another anomaly on the tape, which was very odd, especially to
Susan, occurred when the group arrived on the second floor, and noted a plant
growing out of a piece of foam, the type used in cushions and beds. Upon seeing
the plant, Susan commented, "It's growing on a piece of foam," but
immediately after the word "foam," two more complete words,
"foam, foam" were heard in Susan's voice. She did not say
"foam" 3 times. Then, after the repeated word "foam," came
the radio-squelch-like sound, several times, each time between 2 & 7
seconds. Added in between that was the "fingernail file" sound and the
"sand blocks" sound, increasing in intensity and succession, until
Roberto says, "This is the creepy place. I can
feel it." The crescendo of sounds diminished, then ended after leaving the
terminal ward--for a while.
As far as the photos go, judge for yourself. They enlarge, so
check them over carefully, and [e-mail](mailto:info@gomanzanillo.com)
if you'd like your opinion made part of this story. There is still room to
explore the Haunted Hospital this October 31.
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
Photos above, left to right: 1) Emergency entrance, Buzz checking for sounds. Note
the swirling pink mist around Buzz and the huge orb between Buzz and Ray Alley;
2) Large bright light is from a flashlight, but what are the tiny moving orbs in
the photo? The flashlight, the door threshold, and the person's foot is
stationary. The orbs are moving, leaving a trail, and upon close examination,
some of the trails are straight, while others are curved. The anomaly was not
from camera motion; 3) A white and an orange orb taken with Diane's Sony camera;
4) Notice the small white orbs floating around the bushes outside the entrance.
Whatever the phenomena, orbs seem to prefer shrubs and trees in this location.
What was unique was the ABSENCE of orbs in the 300 photos that were taken, and
in some photos, with both the building and bushes, the orbs were always in the
bushes.
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | Using the "Shoot & Select" feature on the camera, more than
25 photos of this area were taken in rapid succession. This is the first 7.
Only on the first photo do numerous orbs appear. The white in the upper left
corner of the last 4 photos is the tip of a finger. |
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
Above 2 rows, left to right: (the first 6 photos--out of 12--using "Shoot and
Select"), show a pink anomaly that appears to be shining on the vine. The second
photo is lightly tinged with pink, but in the successive 10 photos (only 6 shown
here), everything appears normal, except for some very small and transparent
orbs off toward the middle-to-right side of the photos. The last 2 photos of a
large ficus tree show more small orbs.
There's a heavy debate out there of what orbs really are. They
could be dust particles, mist or rain reflected by the camera, or a variety of
other wind borne agents, such as pollens, insects, hair, or ash. A flash
reflects off these objects and produces an "orb." If you try, it is relatively
easy to reproduce orbs with a camera. Shake something heavy with dust, and take
a flash photo. You'll get orbs. In most of the photos taken in the hospital,
there wasn't an orb in sight, although, obviously, it was dirty and dusty. In
just a few photos, however, there seems to be something unique, and when taking
many photos of the same subject, the anomaly did not appear again.
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | | | |
Above, the first 2 photos seem to show a shape forming and then peaking out
from behind a support column. Perhaps it is a reflection off the beam--or not.
A closer look at the enlarged photo shows an orange orb to the right of it in
the lower left quadrant. In the third photo, small orbs seem to like the fichus trees outside of the
hospital. The last photo is of the outside of the hospital. Taken with a flash
at midnight, there are a few small orbs visible, which could have been from dust
or sea mist.
Inside, Buzz tried an experiment (because he's had a unique
experience with orbs himself). Recently, during a strong wind, an old, huge
fichus tree fell on his truck. This was during the daytime, and he took photos
for insurance purposes. Oddly, moving orbs were everywhere--and this was during
the day. He surmised that the orbs, whatever they were-- were "living" in the
tree, and the tree's falling stirred them up.
In the hospital courtyard, stands a huge fichus. If whatever
these things are, they actually live in the tree, he thought. Hitting the tree
would surely shake them up and bring them out. Successive photos were taken
before and after the smacking of the tree with a scrap piece of wood. Out of 25
photos before and after, not a single orb appeared to anyone--nor to the eye of
the camera. One would think that hitting on a huge, dusty fichus tree in a
building courtyard that hasn't been occupied for 15 years would bring out the
orbs--whether ghostly or dust particles--in droves, but it was not to be. The mysterious globes only appeared when
they wanted to.
Prior to this ghost hunt in the "Haunted Hospital," Susan
tried various other locations, such as her house, yard, restaurants, cemeteries,
and sites where she knew deaths occurred. Only where deaths occurred (and
cemeteries) did orbs appear in her photos. That is not to say that the orbs are
spirits, or spirit energy. No one really knows and there are many opinions out
there on the internet.
Are there spirits haunting the old social security hospital?
It would seem so, although most of the ghost hunters who visited on October 9
don't really believe in them, but after experiencing the eerie terminal ward, it
is hard to say the *fantasmas* aren't there either. After reviewing the
tape and photos, it seems likely that another expedition into the unknown will
take place--and what better night to honor those tortured souls left to wander
the halls of the silent hospital, but Halloween?
The October 31 adventure was odd in several ways. First, one
of the ghost hunters was the child who survived the collapse of the Hotel Costa
Real in 1995, though both of her parents were killed. Another strange thing was
that the group explored a totally different part of the hospital--including the
crematory and morgue--and were unable to find the one part of the building they
were originally in on Oct. 9: the terminal ward. Since most of the unusual
experiences happened in that section of the building, they were hoping to leave
a camera and recorder set up there while they continued exploring elsewhere, but
never did find the room. That was unusual since the majority of the people from
the first expedition on Oct. 9 were there for a second time, and NONE of them
could find the spot.
Three particularly strange photos shot less than a second apart
were taken on Halloween night. (Photos enlarge by clicking)
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | | |
As for the voice recorder, intermittently throughout the tape
above the voices of the group, you can hear typical sounds of a working
hospital: carts rolling, papers shuffled, clangs of metal upon metal, glass
breaking or crashing to the floor--all caught on tape when the group heard
absolutely nothing.
[E-mail](mailto:susan@gomanzanillo.com?subject=Haunted Hospital) if
you'd like to join this Oct. 31, 2011.
| http://www.gomanzanillo.com/features/hospital/ |
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<h1 align="center"><font color="#ffff00" face="Verdana">Jim Zim's pictures<br>
of the Diablo Canyon<br>
Nuclear Power Plant</font></h1>
<h2 align="center"><font face="Verdana" size="3">
Located near San Luis Obispo, California</font></h2>
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<img border="0" src="Photos/DCPP_at_dawn_with_goats.jpg" alt="Goats graze at dawn behind the Diablo Canyon power plant" width="800" height="642"><br>
<FONT face="Verdana" size="2">A photo I shot of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant at dawn.<br>
(Notice the goats grazing on the hillside!)<br>
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<IMG align=left hspace=5 src="Photos/jimatdcpp-small.jpg" alt="Jim Zimmerlin at Diablo Canyon Power Plant in the 1990s" width="201" height="240">
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<FONT face="Verdana">Greetings from California's central coast!</FONT></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">My name is Jim Zimmerlin (everyone calls me Jim Zim) and I worked for <A href="http://www.pge.com">
Pacific Gas & Electric Company</A>
at the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant until my retirement in June of 2020.
As all classic career
tales do, my Diablo Canyon story began with working in the mailroom... and
that was back in 1992. Let me tell you a little bit about my days at DCPP (Diablo Canyon Power Plant)... and share with you a few pictures I've taken over the years with several different
digital cameras.</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">In case you're not already familiar with Diablo Canyon, let me just start by saying that the
plant is built around two nuclear reactors which each produce 1,100 megawatts of electricity. All told, DCPP
cranks out enough power for over three million people! The plant sits on a gorgeous stretch of the Pacific coast just
west of San Luis Obispo, California. Because the plant site is off limits to the public, and shielded from view by
a coastal mountain range, almost no one but the plant staff will ever see the Diablo Canyon facility. But as you
continue a little further down the page, I'll show you what you're missing. I'm fairly confident that my view on
the way to work in the morning is a lot better than yours!</font></P>
<P><FONT face="Verdana">
But before I go any further, I'd just like to say that I worked at Diablo Canyon for a long time, in a lot of
different roles that have given me a great look at how things work and how the plant is managed. Over all those
years, I've never seen anything that led me to doubt the company's commitment to safe operation of the plant...
and I've seen much that has impressed me. Diablo Canyon's outstanding track record is something that PG&E can be
very proud of... and the people of San Luis Obispo county can certainly sleep well at night knowing that Diablo
Canyon is operating safely. </FONT></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">In light of the crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan, I'm sure a lot of people are
skeptical about the idea of Diablo Canyon being safe. But once you understand the important differences between
the Fukushima plant and Diablo Canyon, you'll see why what happened at Fukushima simply could not happen at DCPP.
Let me explain...</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">Diablo Canyon has two major features that would totally prevent a Fukushima-style disaster
from happening here. First off, the plant sits on a bluff that is 85 feet above the waterline. So, there’s absolutely
no way that a tidal wave could wipe out Diablo Canyon's emergency cooling system. The decision to build the
Fukushima plant at shore level is ultimately what doomed it. It survived the earthquake quite well, but the
following tidal wave knocked out the emergency power source that could have pumped cooling water to the reactors.
Diablo Canyon, sitting on a bluff 85 feet above the ocean, is simply not vulnerable to a tidal wave. Period.</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">The other thing (and this is the part that people really don’t seem to know about) is that
Diablo Canyon has something that most nuclear power plants don't have… two gigantic reservoirs of freshwater
sitting up ABOVE the plant on a hillside to the east. You can see them quite clearly in this aerial photo supplied
by PG&E:</font></P>
<P align="center">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DiabloCanyonAerialPhotoByPG&E.jpg" alt="Pacific Gas and Electric Company photo" width="800" height="595"></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">Because these water storage reservoirs sit up in the hillside above the plant, all it would take
is opening a valve and gravity would do the rest… all the emergency cooling water you would ever need...
and absolutely no electricity required. So, if the nearly impossible were to happen and Diablo should lose all
electrical power including every one of the SIX emergency diesel generators… they could still cool down both spent
fuel pools and both reactors with the water stored up on the hill. The
whole problem at Fukushima resulted from the fact that they had no way to pump
cooling water in to keep their reactor core cool. A Fukushima situation is simply impossible at
Diablo Canyon.</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">I should also mention that the Diablo Canyon power plant has been built to withstand a much stronger
earthquake than could possibly happen in our area. To put it simply, the plant was built with earthquakes in mind
and has been engineered (with a large margin of safety) to not only handle the strongest possible quake that could occur
on the nearest fault line... but to actually withstand simultaneous quakes on two different nearby fault lines!</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">When engineers talk about a structure's ability to withstand
an earthquake, they talk about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration">peak ground acceleration</a>
or PGA. PGA is measured in
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal_(unit)">Galileo units</a>... or usually just referred to as gal. A
gal is defined as acceleration of 1 centimeter per second squared (1 cm/s²). The nuclear power plant at Fukushima
was built to withstand an earthquake that could produce peak ground acceleration of 441 gal... but the earthquake
in March of 2011 actually produced a PGA of 550 gal. Now let's
see how California's nuclear power plants stack up to that. The San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (near San
Diego and Los Angeles) was built to withstand much stronger shaking than what was experienced at Fukushima. San
Onofre was designed for PGA of 657 gal. And here at Diablo Canyon, we're sitting pretty... with an extremely
robust design that can handle 735 gal of peak ground acceleration.</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">You also have to understand the concept of "margin of safety". Fukushima was designed to
handle peak ground acceleration of 441 gal and actually withstood 550 gal quite well in the 2011 quake. (Keeping
in mind that if there had not been a tidal wave after the quake, Fukushima would still be operating today.) So,
when the engineers say that Diablo Canyon can handle 735 gal of peak ground acceleration, you can rest assured that
there is a very large margin of safety built in to that calculation... and the reality is that the plant would be
able to handle far more than that.</font></P>
<P><FONT face="Verdana">
With that out of the way, let me tell you a bit about where I fit in at DCPP...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Verdana">
<IMG align=left alt="I made the labels in the DCPP sign shop" border=0 hspace=5 src="Photos/jim-hardhat.jpg" width="200" height="150">
<img border="0" src="Photos/JimInDCPPMailroom.jpg" alt="Jim Zim in the Diablo Canyon mailroom in the 1990s" align="right" hspace="5" width="249" height="300">
At the time of my retirement in 2020, my job title was "Administrative Specialist". There
were about 40 of us at the plant in that job classification... and as the
title implies, each of us have our own specialized niche. My job involved
many different duties, but just about all of them involved the use of my hands.
Maybe it shouldn't have been a big surprise when Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in both
of my hands ended up being the thing that forced me in to retirement in June of
2020.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Verdana">
One thing that has really kept my PG&E career interesting is that I've been able
to rotate in and out of different jobs over the years. Some of the job
assignments have been more glamorous than others!</FONT></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">I already mentioned that my years with PG&E began in the mailroom... it was a great
introduction to the company and a great way to meet employees throughout the plant. After that, I spent several
years on a crew that performed hourly fire inspections throughout the plant. It took me in to the heart of the
power plant, and gave me an amazing insider's view of all the little nooks and crannies of plant... everything
from the control room down to all the obscure little electrical equipment rooms that even many of our most senior
employees have never seen. In later years I had a great time working in the sign-making shop... was a
"gopher" for the welding crew... worked the telephone switchboard... kept a document library up to date...
and I even spent a little time on the "housekeeping" crew doing the real glamorous assignments (!) like emptying trash
cans and picking up cigarette butts. </font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">The most demanding assignment I ever had was during one of Diablo Canyon's refueling outages.
I got to work on a team that actually goes inside one of the most radioactive parts of the plant... one of the
primary
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power)">steam generators</a>. It's a big metal tank
full of piping that converts hot water in to steam. During a refueling outage, the tank is drained of water, and
someone must go in and install a metal cover to a pipe. The tank is so radioactive that no one is allowed to stay
in it for more than four minutes.</font></P>
<P>
<font face="Verdana">
<IMG align=left alt="Bubble Suit Photo supplied by PG&E" hspace=10 src="Photos/BubbleSuit-PGEPhoto.jpg" width="300" height="400">
My assignment was to go inside the tank and inspect the cover to make sure it had been installed correctly. Now I
know that sounds easy, but believe me, it was not. I spent a week
<a target="_blank" href="/photos/SteamGeneratorJumpTraining.jpg">training in a mock-up</a> so that I could learn to do the task
as quickly as possible, thus minimizing the amount of radiation received. My part of the job involved two entries
in to the steam generator... each about thirty seconds in duration. When the whole operation was over, I had
received a dose equivalent to about 6 chest x-rays. Some of the other guys on the crew who spent almost the full
four minutes inside got about five times as much radiation as I did... so I sure was lucky to have drawn the
easier assignment.</font></P>
<P><FONT face="Verdana">
So, why is it so difficult to go inside a steam generator and inspect a cover? For one thing, to get in to the
steam generator, you have to squeeze through an opening only 16 inches wide! That's hard enough in itself, but
imagine doing this dressed up in a big yellow plastic suit that prevents you from getting contaminated with radioactive
particles... it looks kind of like an astronaut's suit... with an umbilical cord keeping you supplied with
outside air so you breath uncontaminated air. The suit is called a bubble suit since it puffs up like a bubble
from the pressure of the supplied air. The picture on your left is one of my co-workers in a bubble suit, during a
training session. (Photo courtesy of PG&E)</FONT></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">
<img border="0" src="Photos/JimAtDeskAtDCPP-May2010.jpg" alt="May 2010 photo of Jim at his desk at Diablo Canyon" align="right" hspace="5" width="233" height="350">Here's
a funny story about that highly radioactive steam generator that I performed an internal inspection on...</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">
Years after my little visit inside the steam generator, DCPP's steam generators started having some aging issues and
needed to be replaced. It was
<a href="http://nuclearstreet.com/blogs/nuclear_power_news/archive/2009/03/25/diablo-canyon-steam-generator-install-finishes-a-week-early.aspx">
a massive undertaking</a> that took months of labor and cost hundreds of millions of dollars. During the project
to remove and replace the steam generators, I happened to be out in the parking lot on the day that they rolled one of
the old steam generators out on a massive transporter. As I was standing there, another employee hollered at me
from across the parking lot to stand further back as the steam generator rolled by, because it was still somewhat
radioactive. (The more distance you put between you and a radioactive source, the less radiation you will
receive.) I laughed at the irony of being warned about getting too close to the steam generator... and felt
like shouting back "hey, where were you when they asked me to jump inside that thing?!?"</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">So, that's a little look in to some of my job assignments at Diablo Canyon over the years.
Perhaps you're wondering what was my favorite job of all. Well, believe it or not, it was actually that mailroom
job that started my whole PG&E career off. More than any of the other jobs, it involved interaction with a lot of
people... and the ability to give good customer service, which I'm pretty good at! So, a few years ago when
I was given the opportunity to take the mailroom job again... I jumped at the chance.
And I'll be the Diablo Canyon mailroom guy until I finally retire in September
of 2020... 28 years after I started!</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">I've definitely seen a lot of changes at DCPP since I first started in 1992. One of the
biggest changes involves how the company has trimmed staffing levels and insisted on getting things done with fewer
employees. For example, back in 1992 we had two guys working together in the mailroom as a team... and these
days it's just me. In fact, in 1992 we also had a a full-time person operating the reprographics machines in the
room next door to the mailroom, and another full-time person maintaining our stock of office supplies in the storeroom
behind the mailroom. These days, I do all three of those jobs... which in 1992 required four full-time
staff! If you think I'm exaggerating... I assure you that I'm not! I definitely work harder now, and
get less support than I did in 1992. Those were the golden days of PG&E... but the golden days never last
forever, do they?</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">It's actually kind of funny how I ended up becoming the repro room guy in addition to being the
mailroom guy. As I mentioned, the repro room is right next door to the mail room. One day a few years ago,
the lady that ran the repro room had a week off work for vacation and they didn't have anyone to fill in for her...
so I volunteered to handle her duties in addition to my normal duties for that one week while she was away. I knew
it was going to be difficult to do the work of two full-time people... but I considered it a challenge to see if
it was possible to do it by giving it every bit of energy I had. After all, it was only for a week, right?
Well, my boss noticed that I was able to get both jobs done that week... and later that year when her boss told
her that budget cuts required that we trim a position from our department, she figured that if I could do it for a week
I could do it all the time. So, these days I'm a little more careful about how much extra work I volunteer for...
because I realize now that temporary extraordinary efforts have a way of becoming the normal expectation!</font></P>
<P>
<img border="0" src="Photos/PowerMagazineCover.jpg" alt="Diablo Canyon on the cover of Power Magazine" align="left" hspace="5" width="109" height="150">
<font face="Verdana">On this page, you'll see many great photos that I've shot at Diablo Canyon over the years...
but let me stress that I'm not a professional photographer, just the mailroom guy! I think it's pretty funny that
a photo by the mailroom guy was placed on the wall of the office of the company President. In fact, that photo (at the top of this
page) of the plant at dawn, with the goats grazing on the hillside, is probably the best photo I've ever taken at DCPP.
It's certainly the one that people comment about the most, and it even made it on to the cover of an industry magazine.
Not bad for an amateur!</font></P>
<P><font face="Verdana">You might be wondering if I got a ton of money from the magazine for the use of my photo.
I'm afraid not! And they even managed to misspell my name when they gave me credit for it!<br clear="all">
</font></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<H1 align=center><font face="Verdana" size="5" color="#FFFF00">Diablo Canyon To Shut Down in 2025</font></H1>
<P><font face="Verdana">In June of 2016, PG&E announced that they would NOT seek to re-license the Diablo Canyon power
plant... and that they intend to shut down and decommission the plant at the end of the current licenses.
(2024 for unit 1, and 2025 for unit 2.) This is bad news on several levels:</font></P>
<ul>
<li><font face="Verdana">Diablo Canyon is a huge source of carbon-free electricity for California. Air
pollution levels rose dramatically in Southern California following the shutdown of the San Onofre nuclear
generating station, as the void had to be filled by fossil-fuel generation. PG&E intends to significantly
ramp-up solar and wind generation between now and the time Diablo Canyon shuts down. However, there is still
sure to be an increase in fossil-fuel generation as a result of Diablo Canyon's closure... and that's bad news
for air quality, and global warming.</font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana">Diablo Canyon is a consistent and reliable source of power, 24 hours a day. The plant
typically operates at a capacity factor greater than 90%. The sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow
anywhere near that often, which creates a whole slew of problems in trying to supply power to California 24 hours a
day as the state tries to replace Diablo Canyon's output without hugely expanding our dependence on fossil-fuels.</font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana">Diablo Canyon is one of the lowest-cost sources of electricity in California. The
costs of constructing the plant have almost completely been paid for by now, leaving mostly operating costs to be paid for on
the monthly bills sent to customers. There simply isn't any new major source of electricity that California
can switch over to that will be anywhere near as inexpensive as Diablo Canyon power. This is somewhat
analogous to a family's household budget after making the final payment on a 48-month car loan. The most
financially responsible thing the family can do at that point is to continue operating the car until the end of its
useful life. To go out and purchase a new car as soon as you make the final payment on your existing car is
financially foolish. The sooner they shut down Diablo Canyon power plant, the larger the negative financial
impact to PG&E customers will be.</font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana">When Diablo Canyon is operating, it has
<a target="_blank" href="https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/PGE_Economic_Impact_Report_Final.pdf">
a hugely positive impact</a> on the economies of San Luis Obispo county, the state of California, and the United
States as a whole. The economic contribution to California is approximately one BILLION dollars each year, and
about twice as much nationwide. Closing down the plant is going to have negative financial impacts, especially
to San Luis Obispo county.</font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana">The plant directly employs about 1,500 people and indirectly employs many more. To
visualize the idea of how DCPP indirectly employs someone, consider PG&E's use of photocopiers. The company we
contract with for photocopiers employs a full-time technician just to respond to photocopier service calls at Diablo
Canyon. Or think about the on-site cafeteria and the many people employed there. Not only will the
closure of Diablo Canyon eliminate a huge number of PG&E jobs, but it will cause a cascade of job eliminations in
companies that supply services and products to PG&E. I bet home prices in San Luis Obispo county will take a
hit from this, and that will be just one of many real effects that will touch the entire county, not just those
employed by PG&E.</font></li>
</ul>
<P><font face="Verdana">Thankfully, the plan to let DCPP's operating licenses expire won't have a negative
impact on me and my family. I've been employed by PG&E since 1992 and my plan all along was to retire sometime
around 2022 after 30 years of employment with the company and reaching the age of 65. So,
when the announcement was made that 2025 would be the end of power operations at
the plant, I knew that was plenty long enough to not jeopardize my family's
financial situation. In fact, there's actually been a
personal financial benefit from the situation. PG&E needs their experienced employees to stick around
as long as possible, until the plant finally stops generating power. It's vital to avoid a situation where large numbers of employees bail out before the plant
finally shuts down. So, it's in the company's best interests to offer financial incentives to employees who are
willing to commit to sticking around during the final years of plant operation. That
turned out to be a very good
thing for me, at the tail end of my PG&E career. However, there are many employees at Diablo Canyon who are just at the beginnings of their careers.
For them, the closure of Diablo Canyon in 2025 is definitely <u>not</u> good news.</font></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<H1 align=center><FONT face="Verdana" size=5 color="#FFFF00">Here are some of my digital photos of<br>
Diablo Canyon and the surrounding area</FONT></H1>
<P align=center><FONT color="white" size=2 face="Verdana">All pictures are the copyrighted works of Jim Zimmerlin<br>
(except as noted)</FONT></P>
<table align="center" cellpadding="30" border="0">
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/DCPP-May2010-Wildflowers.jpg" border=0 alt="Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon - May 2010" width="800" height="533"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">Wildflowers on the hillside next to the plant - May 2010</font><br>
I shot this photo very early in the morning, just as the sun was rising</FONT>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/TurbineDeck2007-large.jpg" border=0 alt="Diablo Canyon turbine deck" width="900" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">The unit 1 steam turbine and generator</font><br>
I've waxed that floor before, and that's not a fun job!</FONT>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/DCPP-LookingSouth.jpg" border=0 alt="Diablo Canyon as seen from the north" width="800" height="587"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">A look at the power plant from the north</font><br>
This is an angle that most people never see, since the area north of the plant is closed to visitors and even to most
employees.</font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/CoastNorthPM.JPG" border=0 alt="The coastline north of Diablo Canyon" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">The coastline north of Diablo Canyon</font><br>
Those hills are green in Winter and Spring, but brown in Summer and Fall.<br>
This area would make one heck of a great state park someday after Diablo is eventually decommissioned. </font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<font face="Verdana">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DCPP-Wildflowers-March2004.jpg" alt="Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon power plant" width="700" height="525"></font><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="5" color="#FF0000">April 2004 version of the Diablo Canyon wildflower photo</font><font face="Verdana"><br>
These flowers pop up each Spring, and I have made many attempts<br>
over the years to get a good photo of the plant and the flowers</FONT>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/DCPP-CoastSouth-800.jpg" border=0 alt="Pacific coastline south of Diablo Canyon" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">The coastline south of Diablo Canyon</font><br>
The road to the plant lies on this stretch of the coast.<br>
It makes for an incredibly beautiful commute to and from work each day!</FONT>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/FlowersandPlant.jpg" border=0 alt="Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">1998 version of the Diablo Canyon wildflowers photo</font><br>
This photo was actually taken with my very first digital camera... a whopping 1 megapixel camera.<br>
Nowadays, I shoot with <a href="CanonDigitalRebelT2i.html">an 18 megapixel Canon Digital Rebel SLR camera</a>.</FONT>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<img src="Photos/OaksandSun.JPG" border=0 alt="Oak trees at Diablo Canyon" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">The sun peeks through Oak trees</font><br>
This beautiful grove of Oak trees is in the canyon behind the power plant.<br>
<br>
<FONT color="#FFFF00"><i>This picture was honored as the "Digital Photo Of The Day" at a very<br>
well respected photography web site on May 2'nd, 1999...<br>
and again by another photography web site on August 7th, 2001!</i></FONT></FONT><font color="#FFFF00">
</font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<a target="blank" href="Panorama-FieldsRanch.jpg">
<IMG alt="A panoramic photo shot on PG&E property north of Diablo Canyon" border=0 src="Photos/Panorama-FieldsRanch-small.jpg" width="700" height="152"></a><br>
<font face="Verdana"><font size="5" color="#FF0000">A huge field of wildflowers just north of Diablo Canyon</font><br>
PG&E owns a large amount of property surrounding the power plant.<br>
For security reasons, there is no public access to this area...<br>
so it is in pristine natural condition.<br>
This picture was taken a mile or two north of the power plant.<br>
<br>
<font color="#FFFF00">Click on the picture to see a high resolution (3230x700 pixel) version of the photo.</font></font><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#FFFF00">Internet Explorer users: After downloading the large version of the photo,<br>
Internet Explorer will most likely resize the big photo to fit your screen. To see the full sized version,<br>
point your mouse to the lower right hand corner of the resized photo, and click on the "expand" button.</font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<P align="left"><FONT face="Verdana">Let's talk about nuclear safety. The 1986 Chernobyl accident and the
tsunami-related 2011 Japanese accident are certainly cause for concern. I'm sure you're probably thinking
"Couldn't those kind of accidents happen at Diablo Canyon?"</FONT></P>
<P align="left"><FONT face="Verdana">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DiabloCanyonSunset-Nov2004.jpg" alt="Diablo Canyon Containment Dome at sunset" align="left" hspace="5" width="400" height="217">
Let's start with Chernobyl. You need to understand an important difference between American nuclear plant design
and the design that the Soviets used. Nuclear reactors in the United States are enclosed in massive containment
domes, the huge steel-reinforced cement structures that are so dominant in the pictures on this page. These
structures would contain an accident within the dome. The Soviets were very arrogant and felt that their nuclear
plants featured such superior engineering that there was no need for a containment structure... so the reactors at
Chernobyl (and many others in the former Soviet Union) were <font color="white">NOT</font> built within containment
domes. When things went terribly wrong within the Chernobyl reactor, there was nothing to keep the radiation from
spewing out in to the countryside. Only
<font color="white">AFTER</font> the accident was a containment structure hastily built at Chernobyl. (It is now
referred to as "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Possible_consequences_of_further_collapse_of_the_Sarcophagus">the
Sarcophagus</a>".)</FONT></P>
<P align="left"><FONT face="Verdana">One only needs to look to
<a href="http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html">Three Mile Island</a> to see the
benefits of containment domes. The accidents at both Chernobyl and Three Mile Island were serious enough to
permanently disable the reactors, yet at Three Mile Island
<a href="http://www.nei.org/Master-Document-Folder/Backgrounders/Fact-Sheets/The-Tmi-2-Accident-Its-Impact-Its-Lessons">the accident was contained</a> because of the dome. The
surrounding residents, while scared, suffered no health effects. Another critical difference between American and
Soviet plant safety lies in the design of the reactor itself. The water moderated reactors in use today throughout
the US are inherently much more stable than the design used at Chernobyl.</FONT></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">Besides containing any accidents inside the domes, the containment structures would
also be excellent protection against a terrorist attack.
<a href="http://www.nei.org/News-Media/Media-Room/News-Releases/Analysis-of-Nuclear-Power-Plants-Shows-Aircraft-Cr">An engineering study</a>
after the 2001 World Trade Center attack concluded that a fully loaded jetliner flown directly in to the containment
structure of an American nuclear power plant would NOT penetrate the structure.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">Speaking of security issues, let me assure you that for years now America's nuclear
power plants have been prepared to defend against terrorist attacks. Security is not something that has been
hastily added in the wake of the September 11th attacks... intense security is something that has been designed in
to nuclear power plants since day one. I'm not going to discuss security issues any further here (heck, there
could be terrorists reading this right now) but I would suggest if you are interested in reading more about the subject
that you visit the web site of
<a href="http://www.nei.org/">the Nuclear Energy Institute</a>.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">OK, what about the March 2011 nuclear accidents in Japan? That Japanese plant
has a very similar design to some of the nuclear plants here in the USA... and they all had containment domes.
But the big problem was how that plant was located at such a low elevation. When the tsunami hit, it rolled right
over a seawall and knocked out every one of the Fukushima's emergency diesel electric generators. Without
emergency power, plant operators couldn't operate pumps to direct cooling water to the reactors.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">A tsunami of that intensity would cause very few problems at Diablo Canyon.
Our plant sits on a bluff <u>85 feet</u>
above the Pacific Ocean... which means our diesel generators would be totally out of harms way should a tsunami
strike. And just in case every one of our six emergency diesel electric generators fail and there's no way to run
the electric pumps that normally circulate cooling water around the nuclear fuel... we've got two gigantic
reservoirs of fresh water located on a hillside just behind the plant. Because they sit much higher than the
plant, the water from these reservoirs can be moved by gravity alone. So if the unthinkable happens and we need
emergency cooling water to flood over the fuel... it can be done by simply opening a valve. Gravity will do all
the work. So even with all sources of electricity completely wiped out, it's pretty easy to get emergency cooling
water flowing at DCPP. If they had been able to do that in Japan, Fukushima wouldn't be in the situation it's in
now.</font></P>
<P align="left"><FONT face="Verdana">
<IMG align="right" alt="At work at DCPP - Not a digital photo" border=0 src="Photos/jim-pgande-truck-small.jpg" hspace=10 width="414" height="266">
Sometimes people ask me if it is safe to work at a nuclear power plant. In December of 2000 I was diagnosed with
Lymphoma, and some people have suggested that there must be a link between my job and the fact that I got cancer.
While it's possible, I really doubt it. I wore a radiation monitoring device at Diablo Canyon at all times, so I
know exactly how much radiation I received during the years prior to getting cancer. You might be surprised to
know that I got more radiation exposure during the two CAT scans they performed in diagnosing my cancer then I did in
all the years I worked at Diablo Canyon prior to that! And that includes the time I had to go in to that highly
radioactive steam generator, as described earlier on this page. There are more than a million new cases of cancer
in the USA every year... it just happens. Diablo Canyon probably had nothing to do with mine.</FONT></P>
<P align="left"><FONT face="Verdana">By the way, my cancer was successfully treated in the Spring of 2001 and I'm
perfectly fine now. It was an experience I won't ever forget, though! You can read about it and see some
funny pictures of me after losing my hair <a href="cancer.html">here</a>.<br clear="all"></FONT></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">
<img border="1" src="Photos/Quake.jpg" alt="Custom Graphic By Jim Zimmerlin" align="left" hspace="5" width="180" height="130">Another
thing people sometimes ask me about is the earthquake that rattled Diablo Canyon on December 22, 2003. The
epicenter of this magnitude 6.5 quake was about 35 miles north of the plant. I was at home at the time of the
quake, so I can't offer any first-hand reports, but I do have several friends who were at Diablo Canyon at the time.
They say that there was very strong shaking at the plant site, but that the plant handled it well. It was not even
necessary to reduce power or take the plant off-line... both units continued to run at full-power without a
problem.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">To understand how this was possible, while millions of dollars in damages occurred
elsewhere in the county, you have to understand that Diablo Canyon was designed to handle a much stronger earthquake
than this. Would it make you feel better to know that Diablo Canyon was designed and built to handle an earthquake
that produces shaking <u>twice</u> as strong as the December 22nd quake? Well, I've got news for you... the
truth is that Diablo Canyon was designed and built to handle shaking about <u>TWENTY</u>
times as strong as this 6.5 magnitude quake produced! Certain politicians and anti-nuclear groups got all up in
arms and called for an investigation of Diablo Canyon after the quake... I find that hilarious... and I think it
just shows how out of touch they are with the truth about Diablo Canyon. This place has been engineered to the
most demanding specifications. I've seen it up close, from the inside. You'd be hard pressed to find a safer
place to ride out an earthquake than within the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant!</font></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DCPP-FromNorth-May2010-Wildflowers.jpg" alt="Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant photo by Jim Zimmerlin" align="right" hspace="5" width="267" height="400">Another
important thing about Diablo Canyon that I'd like to mention is the economic aspect. There seem to be a lot of
misconceptions about this! Some people have a perception that nuclear power is expensive... but in the case
of Diablo Canyon, this couldn't be further from the truth. Did you know that Diablo Canyon provides power to
California's electric grid at less than half the cost of the statewide average? The average cost of electricity
produced in California is over 3.6 cents per killowatt/hour... but Diablo Canyon power costs less than 1.6 cents
per kWh.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">And let's not forget the economic benefits to the local area... in addition
to employing over 1,400 people at the plant itself, the economic activity generated by Diablo Canyon accounts for well
over 500 other full time jobs in San Luis Obispo county.
<a href="http://www.nei.org/News-Media/News/News-Archives/New-Study-Diablo-Canyon-Provides-2-Billion-Annuall">A study by the Nuclear Energy Institute</a>
recently concluded that Diablo Canyon's contribution to the California economy was over over a <u>billion</u> dollars
every year! Look nationwide and Diablo Canyon's impact is almost two billion dollars every year.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DCPP-AerialOverWater.jpg" alt="PG&E Photo of Diablo Canyon power plant" align="left" hspace="5" width="265" height="350">And
there's one other "hot topic" I'd like to mention, and that's the once-through-cooling system that is used at the plant.
DCPP is situated next to the Pacific ocean for a very good reason: a gigantic supply of cold seawater provides a
very simple and inexpensive way to provide cooling for the condensers in the non-nuclear side of the plant.</font></P>
<P align="left"><font face="Verdana">There's been a lot of talk about forcing PG&E to abandon the existing
once-through-cooling system. The people behind this idea have argued that using massive amounts of ocean
water ends up killing large amounts of marine life. I think they want you to believe that the plant sucks up fish
and crabs and seals and things like that. But when they talk about ocean creatures getting sucked in to our
cooling system... what they're talking about is fish larvae. Larvae! We're talking about things a few
millimeters long. If you know anything about marine biology, you know that fish lay huge amounts of eggs and that
in a tiny section of the ocean there can be huge numbers of larvae. So, yes, when you add up the numbers of how
many larvae are sucked up in to our cooling system over a long period of time... you can make the numbers sound
pretty big. But it's just larvae, and it's an insignificant tiny fraction of the overall population. Even if
Diablo Canyon didn't use ocean water for cooling, about 98% of those larvae wouldn't reach adulthood anyway.
That's why fish lay so many eggs! Let's say they modified the plant to eliminate the once-through-cooling system.
Huge numbers of fish larvae would be saved... and how many of them would grow up to be adult fish? About 50
a day. And to achieve this addition of 50 fish per day to the Pacific Ocean would cost how much to make the
modifications to the plant? Somewhere in the vicinity of $2,000,000,000 - $4,000,000,000, and it would all have to
be paid for by PG&E's customers in the form of a rate increase. Do the math and divide it out and see how much it
works out to... per adult fish saved. It's an absolutely CRAZY idea that makes no sense at all.<br clear="all"></font></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<p align="left"><font face="Verdana" size="3">The power plant is surrounded by a large buffer zone of
several hundred acres. The buffer zone is in pristine condition and hasn't changed much from the days when native
Americans lived here. Public access to this part of the coastline is extremely limited, and the land is used
mainly for livestock grazing. Here are a few photos from PG&E's property surrounding the Diablo Canyon site...</font></p>
<p align="center">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DiabloCanyon-NorthRanch-April2007.jpg" alt="North of Diablo Canyon power plant" width="800" height="533"><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="2">An April 2007 photo from the area north of the power plant</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p align="center">
<img border="0" src="Photos/JimInCoastalWildflowers.jpg" alt="Jim Zim in a field of wildflowers just north of Diablo Canyon" width="800" height="533"><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="2">Just a little bit north of the previous photo, I put the camera on a tripod so I could be in this shot</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p align="center">
<img border="0" src="Photos/DCPP-FromADistance-March2007.jpg" alt="Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant" width="800" height="533"><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="2">A March 2007 photo from the other (south) side of the power plant, looking north</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p align="center">
<img border="0" src="Photos/PointSanLuisLighthouse-800.jpg" alt="Point San Luis Lighthouse" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana" size="2">The Point San Luis lighthouse sits on the far south end of the Diablo Canyon buffer zone.<br>
<a href="PechoCoastTrail.html">Click here</a> to see some pretty photos I took on a hike to the lighthouse in 2003</font></p>
<br>
<table align="center" cellpadding="30" border="0">
<tr>
<td align="center">
<P><FONT face="Verdana" size=3>
How about a few more pictures?<br>
The next two were shot by <A href="kids.html">my son, Jeff,</A><br>
during a plane ride he got to take when he was 13 years old.</FONT></P>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<p>
<img src="Photos/PortSanLuis.jpg" border=0 alt="Aerial photo of Port San Luis" width="800" height="600"><br>
<font face="Verdana" color="#FF0000">The harbor at Port San Luis</font><br>
<FONT face="Verdana">(Notice the wing of the plane is visible at the top of the picture.)<br>
The main entrance to the plant site is located here in Port San Luis, but the plant itself is actually about 8 miles up
the coast. Plant employees are treated to a spectacular view of the coast during the commute to and from work each day.</FONT></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<p>
<img src="Photos/PortSanLuis2.jpg" border=0 alt="Port San Luis and Avila Beach" width="800" height="429"><br>
<font face="Verdana" color="#FF0000">Another view of Port San Luis</font><br>
<FONT face="Verdana">That's Avila Beach and the Avila pier at the far right.</FONT></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center">
<p>
<IMG alt="Incredible photo of whale almost totally out of the water" border=0 src="Photos/whale-BarryPaulsen.jpg" width="300" height="229"><br>
<FONT face="Verdana" color="#FF0000">A spectacular whale shot</font><br>
<FONT face="Verdana">This picture was taken about 3 miles offshore of Diablo Canyon by <A href="mailto:barryp@ridgecrest.ca.us">Barry Paulsen</A>.<br>
He saw the Diablo pictures on this page and was kind enough to send this picture to me.<br>
Thanks, Barry!</FONT></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div align="center">
<table border="1" bgcolor="#FFFF00" cellpadding="15">
<tr>
<td>
<p align="center"><font face="Verdana"><font color="#000000">Visit the </font><a href="pictures.html">
<font color="#0000FF">Jim Zim photo gallery</font></a><font color="#000000">, featuring more pictures I've
taken throughout San Luis Obispo county</font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<br>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<p align="left"><font face="Verdana">Public tours of Diablo Canyon were discontinued after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
However, PG&E does have a facility in San Luis Obispo called the Energy Education Center… which features exhibits
about a variety of PG&E interests including the Diablo Canyon power plant. If you're interested in Diablo Canyon
and you happen to be in our area, I would definitely suggest stopping by the E.E.C. for a look at the exhibits.
The address is 6588 Ontario Road in San Luis Obispo… which is just off the 101 freeway at the San Luis Bay Drive
exit.
<a href="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=6588+Ontario+Road,++San+Luis+Obispo&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.772232,104.238281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=6588+Ontario+Rd,+San+Luis+Obispo,+California+93405&t=h&z=17">
Click here</a> to see it on Google maps.
<a href="http://www.pge.com/myhome/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/communityoutreach/energyedu/">Click here</a>
to read a little more about the E.E.C., including their operating hours and phone number.</font></p>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<p align="center"><FONT face="Verdana" color="#ffff00">Please note:<br>
All pictures on this page have been reviewed by DCPP security, and have been cleared for display on this site.</FONT></P>
<p align="center"><FONT face="Verdana" color="#ffff00">If you'd like to see more pictures of the San Luis Obispo county area<br>
that I've taken with my digital camera, please visit my <a href="OurHouse.html">SLO pictures</a> page.</FONT></P>
<br>
<table align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="2" frame="box">
<tr>
<td align="center"><p><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">
Please note that this is an <font color="#FF0000">unofficial</font> Diablo Canyon web site.<br>
If you would like to visit the official PG&E web site, please
<a href="http://www.pge.com/mybusiness/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/"><font color="#0000FF">
click here</font><br>
<img src="Photos/pge_logo.gif" border=0 alt="click here for pge.com" width="138" height="47"></a><br><br>
Please don't write me asking about jobs with PG&E!<br>
For employment information, <a href="http://www.pge.com/careers/">click here</a>.<br>
For Diablo Canyon tours, call 805-546-5280</FONT></P></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p align="center"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFFF00">To read a fascinating article</font><FONT face="Verdana" color="#ffff00">
about the nuclear power industry,<br>
which discusses the important role that nuclear plays in our nation's energy mix<br>
and also covers reactor safety, the storage of nuclear waste, and how nuclear power <br>
plays an important role in the fight against global warming
<a href="http://www.ibew1245.com/Global_Warming/Global_Warming_Nuclear_Revisited_1-18-08.pdf">
click here</a>.</FONT></P>
<hr color="#FF0000">
<div align="center">
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</div>
<HR color="#FF0000">
<p align="center"><FONT face="Verdana">
There is a LOT more to this web site than just this page!<br>
Please explore the rest of the site by viewing our <a href="contents.html">table of contents</a>,<br>
or by clicking on one of the quick links below.</FONT></p>
<p align="center">
<font size="2" face="Verdana"><em><strong>
<a href="index.html">JimZim.net Main Page</a>
<a href="jim.html">Meet Jim Zim</a>
<a href="CruiseShips.html">Cruise Ships</a>
<A href="http://www.zimfamilycockers.com">All About Our Cocker Spaniels</A>
</strong></em></font>
</p>
<DIV align=center> </div>
<DIV align=center><font face="Verdana">
<EM>Copyright ©2021 <a href="mailto:james.zimmerlin@gmail.com">Jim Zimmerlin</a>,
Pasco, Washington. All rights reserved.</EM>
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Pictures of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Jim Zim's pictures
of the Diablo Canyon
Nuclear Power Plant
Located near San Luis Obispo, California | [Click here to go to my main page](index.html) |
---
A photo I shot of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant at dawn.
(Notice the goats grazing on the hillside!)
Greetings from California's central coast!
My name is Jim Zimmerlin (everyone calls me Jim Zim) and I worked for [Pacific Gas & Electric Company](http://www.pge.com)
at the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant until my retirement in June of 2020.
As all classic career
tales do, my Diablo Canyon story began with working in the mailroom... and
that was back in 1992. Let me tell you a little bit about my days at DCPP (Diablo Canyon Power Plant)... and share with you a few pictures I've taken over the years with several different
digital cameras.
In case you're not already familiar with Diablo Canyon, let me just start by saying that the
plant is built around two nuclear reactors which each produce 1,100 megawatts of electricity. All told, DCPP
cranks out enough power for over three million people! The plant sits on a gorgeous stretch of the Pacific coast just
west of San Luis Obispo, California. Because the plant site is off limits to the public, and shielded from view by
a coastal mountain range, almost no one but the plant staff will ever see the Diablo Canyon facility. But as you
continue a little further down the page, I'll show you what you're missing. I'm fairly confident that my view on
the way to work in the morning is a lot better than yours!
But before I go any further, I'd just like to say that I worked at Diablo Canyon for a long time, in a lot of
different roles that have given me a great look at how things work and how the plant is managed. Over all those
years, I've never seen anything that led me to doubt the company's commitment to safe operation of the plant...
and I've seen much that has impressed me. Diablo Canyon's outstanding track record is something that PG&E can be
very proud of... and the people of San Luis Obispo county can certainly sleep well at night knowing that Diablo
Canyon is operating safely.
In light of the crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan, I'm sure a lot of people are
skeptical about the idea of Diablo Canyon being safe. But once you understand the important differences between
the Fukushima plant and Diablo Canyon, you'll see why what happened at Fukushima simply could not happen at DCPP.
Let me explain...
Diablo Canyon has two major features that would totally prevent a Fukushima-style disaster
from happening here. First off, the plant sits on a bluff that is 85 feet above the waterline. So, there’s absolutely
no way that a tidal wave could wipe out Diablo Canyon's emergency cooling system. The decision to build the
Fukushima plant at shore level is ultimately what doomed it. It survived the earthquake quite well, but the
following tidal wave knocked out the emergency power source that could have pumped cooling water to the reactors.
Diablo Canyon, sitting on a bluff 85 feet above the ocean, is simply not vulnerable to a tidal wave. Period.
The other thing (and this is the part that people really don’t seem to know about) is that
Diablo Canyon has something that most nuclear power plants don't have… two gigantic reservoirs of freshwater
sitting up ABOVE the plant on a hillside to the east. You can see them quite clearly in this aerial photo supplied
by PG&E:
Because these water storage reservoirs sit up in the hillside above the plant, all it would take
is opening a valve and gravity would do the rest… all the emergency cooling water you would ever need...
and absolutely no electricity required. So, if the nearly impossible were to happen and Diablo should lose all
electrical power including every one of the SIX emergency diesel generators… they could still cool down both spent
fuel pools and both reactors with the water stored up on the hill. The
whole problem at Fukushima resulted from the fact that they had no way to pump
cooling water in to keep their reactor core cool. A Fukushima situation is simply impossible at
Diablo Canyon.
I should also mention that the Diablo Canyon power plant has been built to withstand a much stronger
earthquake than could possibly happen in our area. To put it simply, the plant was built with earthquakes in mind
and has been engineered (with a large margin of safety) to not only handle the strongest possible quake that could occur
on the nearest fault line... but to actually withstand simultaneous quakes on two different nearby fault lines!
When engineers talk about a structure's ability to withstand
an earthquake, they talk about [peak ground acceleration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration)
or PGA. PGA is measured in
[Galileo units](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal_(unit))... or usually just referred to as gal. A
gal is defined as acceleration of 1 centimeter per second squared (1 cm/s²). The nuclear power plant at Fukushima
was built to withstand an earthquake that could produce peak ground acceleration of 441 gal... but the earthquake
in March of 2011 actually produced a PGA of 550 gal. Now let's
see how California's nuclear power plants stack up to that. The San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (near San
Diego and Los Angeles) was built to withstand much stronger shaking than what was experienced at Fukushima. San
Onofre was designed for PGA of 657 gal. And here at Diablo Canyon, we're sitting pretty... with an extremely
robust design that can handle 735 gal of peak ground acceleration.
You also have to understand the concept of "margin of safety". Fukushima was designed to
handle peak ground acceleration of 441 gal and actually withstood 550 gal quite well in the 2011 quake. (Keeping
in mind that if there had not been a tidal wave after the quake, Fukushima would still be operating today.) So,
when the engineers say that Diablo Canyon can handle 735 gal of peak ground acceleration, you can rest assured that
there is a very large margin of safety built in to that calculation... and the reality is that the plant would be
able to handle far more than that.
With that out of the way, let me tell you a bit about where I fit in at DCPP...
At the time of my retirement in 2020, my job title was "Administrative Specialist". There
were about 40 of us at the plant in that job classification... and as the
title implies, each of us have our own specialized niche. My job involved
many different duties, but just about all of them involved the use of my hands.
Maybe it shouldn't have been a big surprise when Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in both
of my hands ended up being the thing that forced me in to retirement in June of
2020.
One thing that has really kept my PG&E career interesting is that I've been able
to rotate in and out of different jobs over the years. Some of the job
assignments have been more glamorous than others!
I already mentioned that my years with PG&E began in the mailroom... it was a great
introduction to the company and a great way to meet employees throughout the plant. After that, I spent several
years on a crew that performed hourly fire inspections throughout the plant. It took me in to the heart of the
power plant, and gave me an amazing insider's view of all the little nooks and crannies of plant... everything
from the control room down to all the obscure little electrical equipment rooms that even many of our most senior
employees have never seen. In later years I had a great time working in the sign-making shop... was a
"gopher" for the welding crew... worked the telephone switchboard... kept a document library up to date...
and I even spent a little time on the "housekeeping" crew doing the real glamorous assignments (!) like emptying trash
cans and picking up cigarette butts.
The most demanding assignment I ever had was during one of Diablo Canyon's refueling outages.
I got to work on a team that actually goes inside one of the most radioactive parts of the plant... one of the
primary
[steam generators](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power)). It's a big metal tank
full of piping that converts hot water in to steam. During a refueling outage, the tank is drained of water, and
someone must go in and install a metal cover to a pipe. The tank is so radioactive that no one is allowed to stay
in it for more than four minutes.
My assignment was to go inside the tank and inspect the cover to make sure it had been installed correctly. Now I
know that sounds easy, but believe me, it was not. I spent a week
[training in a mock-up](/photos/SteamGeneratorJumpTraining.jpg) so that I could learn to do the task
as quickly as possible, thus minimizing the amount of radiation received. My part of the job involved two entries
in to the steam generator... each about thirty seconds in duration. When the whole operation was over, I had
received a dose equivalent to about 6 chest x-rays. Some of the other guys on the crew who spent almost the full
four minutes inside got about five times as much radiation as I did... so I sure was lucky to have drawn the
easier assignment.
So, why is it so difficult to go inside a steam generator and inspect a cover? For one thing, to get in to the
steam generator, you have to squeeze through an opening only 16 inches wide! That's hard enough in itself, but
imagine doing this dressed up in a big yellow plastic suit that prevents you from getting contaminated with radioactive
particles... it looks kind of like an astronaut's suit... with an umbilical cord keeping you supplied with
outside air so you breath uncontaminated air. The suit is called a bubble suit since it puffs up like a bubble
from the pressure of the supplied air. The picture on your left is one of my co-workers in a bubble suit, during a
training session. (Photo courtesy of PG&E)
Here's
a funny story about that highly radioactive steam generator that I performed an internal inspection on...
Years after my little visit inside the steam generator, DCPP's steam generators started having some aging issues and
needed to be replaced. It was
[a massive undertaking](http://nuclearstreet.com/blogs/nuclear_power_news/archive/2009/03/25/diablo-canyon-steam-generator-install-finishes-a-week-early.aspx) that took months of labor and cost hundreds of millions of dollars. During the project
to remove and replace the steam generators, I happened to be out in the parking lot on the day that they rolled one of
the old steam generators out on a massive transporter. As I was standing there, another employee hollered at me
from across the parking lot to stand further back as the steam generator rolled by, because it was still somewhat
radioactive. (The more distance you put between you and a radioactive source, the less radiation you will
receive.) I laughed at the irony of being warned about getting too close to the steam generator... and felt
like shouting back "hey, where were you when they asked me to jump inside that thing?!?"
So, that's a little look in to some of my job assignments at Diablo Canyon over the years.
Perhaps you're wondering what was my favorite job of all. Well, believe it or not, it was actually that mailroom
job that started my whole PG&E career off. More than any of the other jobs, it involved interaction with a lot of
people... and the ability to give good customer service, which I'm pretty good at! So, a few years ago when
I was given the opportunity to take the mailroom job again... I jumped at the chance.
And I'll be the Diablo Canyon mailroom guy until I finally retire in September
of 2020... 28 years after I started!
I've definitely seen a lot of changes at DCPP since I first started in 1992. One of the
biggest changes involves how the company has trimmed staffing levels and insisted on getting things done with fewer
employees. For example, back in 1992 we had two guys working together in the mailroom as a team... and these
days it's just me. In fact, in 1992 we also had a a full-time person operating the reprographics machines in the
room next door to the mailroom, and another full-time person maintaining our stock of office supplies in the storeroom
behind the mailroom. These days, I do all three of those jobs... which in 1992 required four full-time
staff! If you think I'm exaggerating... I assure you that I'm not! I definitely work harder now, and
get less support than I did in 1992. Those were the golden days of PG&E... but the golden days never last
forever, do they?
It's actually kind of funny how I ended up becoming the repro room guy in addition to being the
mailroom guy. As I mentioned, the repro room is right next door to the mail room. One day a few years ago,
the lady that ran the repro room had a week off work for vacation and they didn't have anyone to fill in for her...
so I volunteered to handle her duties in addition to my normal duties for that one week while she was away. I knew
it was going to be difficult to do the work of two full-time people... but I considered it a challenge to see if
it was possible to do it by giving it every bit of energy I had. After all, it was only for a week, right?
Well, my boss noticed that I was able to get both jobs done that week... and later that year when her boss told
her that budget cuts required that we trim a position from our department, she figured that if I could do it for a week
I could do it all the time. So, these days I'm a little more careful about how much extra work I volunteer for...
because I realize now that temporary extraordinary efforts have a way of becoming the normal expectation!
On this page, you'll see many great photos that I've shot at Diablo Canyon over the years...
but let me stress that I'm not a professional photographer, just the mailroom guy! I think it's pretty funny that
a photo by the mailroom guy was placed on the wall of the office of the company President. In fact, that photo (at the top of this
page) of the plant at dawn, with the goats grazing on the hillside, is probably the best photo I've ever taken at DCPP.
It's certainly the one that people comment about the most, and it even made it on to the cover of an industry magazine.
Not bad for an amateur!
You might be wondering if I got a ton of money from the magazine for the use of my photo.
I'm afraid not! And they even managed to misspell my name when they gave me credit for it!
---
# Diablo Canyon To Shut Down in 2025
In June of 2016, PG&E announced that they would NOT seek to re-license the Diablo Canyon power
plant... and that they intend to shut down and decommission the plant at the end of the current licenses.
(2024 for unit 1, and 2025 for unit 2.) This is bad news on several levels:
* Diablo Canyon is a huge source of carbon-free electricity for California. Air
pollution levels rose dramatically in Southern California following the shutdown of the San Onofre nuclear
generating station, as the void had to be filled by fossil-fuel generation. PG&E intends to significantly
ramp-up solar and wind generation between now and the time Diablo Canyon shuts down. However, there is still
sure to be an increase in fossil-fuel generation as a result of Diablo Canyon's closure... and that's bad news
for air quality, and global warming.
* Diablo Canyon is a consistent and reliable source of power, 24 hours a day. The plant
typically operates at a capacity factor greater than 90%. The sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow
anywhere near that often, which creates a whole slew of problems in trying to supply power to California 24 hours a
day as the state tries to replace Diablo Canyon's output without hugely expanding our dependence on fossil-fuels.
* Diablo Canyon is one of the lowest-cost sources of electricity in California. The
costs of constructing the plant have almost completely been paid for by now, leaving mostly operating costs to be paid for on
the monthly bills sent to customers. There simply isn't any new major source of electricity that California
can switch over to that will be anywhere near as inexpensive as Diablo Canyon power. This is somewhat
analogous to a family's household budget after making the final payment on a 48-month car loan. The most
financially responsible thing the family can do at that point is to continue operating the car until the end of its
useful life. To go out and purchase a new car as soon as you make the final payment on your existing car is
financially foolish. The sooner they shut down Diablo Canyon power plant, the larger the negative financial
impact to PG&E customers will be.
* When Diablo Canyon is operating, it has
[a hugely positive impact](https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/PGE_Economic_Impact_Report_Final.pdf) on the economies of San Luis Obispo county, the state of California, and the United
States as a whole. The economic contribution to California is approximately one BILLION dollars each year, and
about twice as much nationwide. Closing down the plant is going to have negative financial impacts, especially
to San Luis Obispo county.
* The plant directly employs about 1,500 people and indirectly employs many more. To
visualize the idea of how DCPP indirectly employs someone, consider PG&E's use of photocopiers. The company we
contract with for photocopiers employs a full-time technician just to respond to photocopier service calls at Diablo
Canyon. Or think about the on-site cafeteria and the many people employed there. Not only will the
closure of Diablo Canyon eliminate a huge number of PG&E jobs, but it will cause a cascade of job eliminations in
companies that supply services and products to PG&E. I bet home prices in San Luis Obispo county will take a
hit from this, and that will be just one of many real effects that will touch the entire county, not just those
employed by PG&E.
Thankfully, the plan to let DCPP's operating licenses expire won't have a negative
impact on me and my family. I've been employed by PG&E since 1992 and my plan all along was to retire sometime
around 2022 after 30 years of employment with the company and reaching the age of 65. So,
when the announcement was made that 2025 would be the end of power operations at
the plant, I knew that was plenty long enough to not jeopardize my family's
financial situation. In fact, there's actually been a
personal financial benefit from the situation. PG&E needs their experienced employees to stick around
as long as possible, until the plant finally stops generating power. It's vital to avoid a situation where large numbers of employees bail out before the plant
finally shuts down. So, it's in the company's best interests to offer financial incentives to employees who are
willing to commit to sticking around during the final years of plant operation. That
turned out to be a very good
thing for me, at the tail end of my PG&E career. However, there are many employees at Diablo Canyon who are just at the beginnings of their careers.
For them, the closure of Diablo Canyon in 2025 is definitely not good news.
---
# Here are some of my digital photos of
Diablo Canyon and the surrounding area
All pictures are the copyrighted works of Jim Zimmerlin
(except as noted)
| |
| --- |
| Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon - May 2010
Wildflowers on the hillside next to the plant - May 2010
I shot this photo very early in the morning, just as the sun was rising |
| Diablo Canyon turbine deck
The unit 1 steam turbine and generator
I've waxed that floor before, and that's not a fun job! |
| Diablo Canyon as seen from the north
A look at the power plant from the north
This is an angle that most people never see, since the area north of the plant is closed to visitors and even to most
employees. |
| The coastline north of Diablo Canyon
The coastline north of Diablo Canyon
Those hills are green in Winter and Spring, but brown in Summer and Fall.
This area would make one heck of a great state park someday after Diablo is eventually decommissioned. |
|
Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon power plant
April 2004 version of the Diablo Canyon wildflower photo
These flowers pop up each Spring, and I have made many attempts
over the years to get a good photo of the plant and the flowers |
| Pacific coastline south of Diablo Canyon
The coastline south of Diablo Canyon
The road to the plant lies on this stretch of the coast.
It makes for an incredibly beautiful commute to and from work each day! |
| Wildflowers at Diablo Canyon
1998 version of the Diablo Canyon wildflowers photo
This photo was actually taken with my very first digital camera... a whopping 1 megapixel camera.
Nowadays, I shoot with [an 18 megapixel Canon Digital Rebel SLR camera](CanonDigitalRebelT2i.html). |
| Oak trees at Diablo Canyon
The sun peeks through Oak trees
This beautiful grove of Oak trees is in the canyon behind the power plant.
*This picture was honored as the "Digital Photo Of The Day" at a very
well respected photography web site on May 2'nd, 1999...
and again by another photography web site on August 7th, 2001!*
|
| [A panoramic photo shot on PG&E property north of Diablo Canyon](Panorama-FieldsRanch.jpg)
A huge field of wildflowers just north of Diablo Canyon
PG&E owns a large amount of property surrounding the power plant.
For security reasons, there is no public access to this area...
so it is in pristine natural condition.
This picture was taken a mile or two north of the power plant.
Click on the picture to see a high resolution (3230x700 pixel) version of the photo.
Internet Explorer users: After downloading the large version of the photo,
Internet Explorer will most likely resize the big photo to fit your screen. To see the full sized version,
point your mouse to the lower right hand corner of the resized photo, and click on the "expand" button. |
Let's talk about nuclear safety. The 1986 Chernobyl accident and the
tsunami-related 2011 Japanese accident are certainly cause for concern. I'm sure you're probably thinking
"Couldn't those kind of accidents happen at Diablo Canyon?"
Let's start with Chernobyl. You need to understand an important difference between American nuclear plant design
and the design that the Soviets used. Nuclear reactors in the United States are enclosed in massive containment
domes, the huge steel-reinforced cement structures that are so dominant in the pictures on this page. These
structures would contain an accident within the dome. The Soviets were very arrogant and felt that their nuclear
plants featured such superior engineering that there was no need for a containment structure... so the reactors at
Chernobyl (and many others in the former Soviet Union) were NOT built within containment
domes. When things went terribly wrong within the Chernobyl reactor, there was nothing to keep the radiation from
spewing out in to the countryside. Only
AFTER the accident was a containment structure hastily built at Chernobyl. (It is now
referred to as "[the
Sarcophagus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Possible_consequences_of_further_collapse_of_the_Sarcophagus)".)
One only needs to look to
[Three Mile Island](http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html) to see the
benefits of containment domes. The accidents at both Chernobyl and Three Mile Island were serious enough to
permanently disable the reactors, yet at Three Mile Island
[the accident was contained](http://www.nei.org/Master-Document-Folder/Backgrounders/Fact-Sheets/The-Tmi-2-Accident-Its-Impact-Its-Lessons) because of the dome. The
surrounding residents, while scared, suffered no health effects. Another critical difference between American and
Soviet plant safety lies in the design of the reactor itself. The water moderated reactors in use today throughout
the US are inherently much more stable than the design used at Chernobyl.
Besides containing any accidents inside the domes, the containment structures would
also be excellent protection against a terrorist attack.
[An engineering study](http://www.nei.org/News-Media/Media-Room/News-Releases/Analysis-of-Nuclear-Power-Plants-Shows-Aircraft-Cr)
after the 2001 World Trade Center attack concluded that a fully loaded jetliner flown directly in to the containment
structure of an American nuclear power plant would NOT penetrate the structure.
Speaking of security issues, let me assure you that for years now America's nuclear
power plants have been prepared to defend against terrorist attacks. Security is not something that has been
hastily added in the wake of the September 11th attacks... intense security is something that has been designed in
to nuclear power plants since day one. I'm not going to discuss security issues any further here (heck, there
could be terrorists reading this right now) but I would suggest if you are interested in reading more about the subject
that you visit the web site of
[the Nuclear Energy Institute](http://www.nei.org/).
OK, what about the March 2011 nuclear accidents in Japan? That Japanese plant
has a very similar design to some of the nuclear plants here in the USA... and they all had containment domes.
But the big problem was how that plant was located at such a low elevation. When the tsunami hit, it rolled right
over a seawall and knocked out every one of the Fukushima's emergency diesel electric generators. Without
emergency power, plant operators couldn't operate pumps to direct cooling water to the reactors.
A tsunami of that intensity would cause very few problems at Diablo Canyon.
Our plant sits on a bluff 85 feet
above the Pacific Ocean... which means our diesel generators would be totally out of harms way should a tsunami
strike. And just in case every one of our six emergency diesel electric generators fail and there's no way to run
the electric pumps that normally circulate cooling water around the nuclear fuel... we've got two gigantic
reservoirs of fresh water located on a hillside just behind the plant. Because they sit much higher than the
plant, the water from these reservoirs can be moved by gravity alone. So if the unthinkable happens and we need
emergency cooling water to flood over the fuel... it can be done by simply opening a valve. Gravity will do all
the work. So even with all sources of electricity completely wiped out, it's pretty easy to get emergency cooling
water flowing at DCPP. If they had been able to do that in Japan, Fukushima wouldn't be in the situation it's in
now.
Sometimes people ask me if it is safe to work at a nuclear power plant. In December of 2000 I was diagnosed with
Lymphoma, and some people have suggested that there must be a link between my job and the fact that I got cancer.
While it's possible, I really doubt it. I wore a radiation monitoring device at Diablo Canyon at all times, so I
know exactly how much radiation I received during the years prior to getting cancer. You might be surprised to
know that I got more radiation exposure during the two CAT scans they performed in diagnosing my cancer then I did in
all the years I worked at Diablo Canyon prior to that! And that includes the time I had to go in to that highly
radioactive steam generator, as described earlier on this page. There are more than a million new cases of cancer
in the USA every year... it just happens. Diablo Canyon probably had nothing to do with mine.
By the way, my cancer was successfully treated in the Spring of 2001 and I'm
perfectly fine now. It was an experience I won't ever forget, though! You can read about it and see some
funny pictures of me after losing my hair [here](cancer.html).
---
Another
thing people sometimes ask me about is the earthquake that rattled Diablo Canyon on December 22, 2003. The
epicenter of this magnitude 6.5 quake was about 35 miles north of the plant. I was at home at the time of the
quake, so I can't offer any first-hand reports, but I do have several friends who were at Diablo Canyon at the time.
They say that there was very strong shaking at the plant site, but that the plant handled it well. It was not even
necessary to reduce power or take the plant off-line... both units continued to run at full-power without a
problem.
To understand how this was possible, while millions of dollars in damages occurred
elsewhere in the county, you have to understand that Diablo Canyon was designed to handle a much stronger earthquake
than this. Would it make you feel better to know that Diablo Canyon was designed and built to handle an earthquake
that produces shaking twice as strong as the December 22nd quake? Well, I've got news for you... the
truth is that Diablo Canyon was designed and built to handle shaking about TWENTY
times as strong as this 6.5 magnitude quake produced! Certain politicians and anti-nuclear groups got all up in
arms and called for an investigation of Diablo Canyon after the quake... I find that hilarious... and I think it
just shows how out of touch they are with the truth about Diablo Canyon. This place has been engineered to the
most demanding specifications. I've seen it up close, from the inside. You'd be hard pressed to find a safer
place to ride out an earthquake than within the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant!
---
Another
important thing about Diablo Canyon that I'd like to mention is the economic aspect. There seem to be a lot of
misconceptions about this! Some people have a perception that nuclear power is expensive... but in the case
of Diablo Canyon, this couldn't be further from the truth. Did you know that Diablo Canyon provides power to
California's electric grid at less than half the cost of the statewide average? The average cost of electricity
produced in California is over 3.6 cents per killowatt/hour... but Diablo Canyon power costs less than 1.6 cents
per kWh.
And let's not forget the economic benefits to the local area... in addition
to employing over 1,400 people at the plant itself, the economic activity generated by Diablo Canyon accounts for well
over 500 other full time jobs in San Luis Obispo county.
[A study by the Nuclear Energy Institute](http://www.nei.org/News-Media/News/News-Archives/New-Study-Diablo-Canyon-Provides-2-Billion-Annuall)
recently concluded that Diablo Canyon's contribution to the California economy was over over a billion dollars
every year! Look nationwide and Diablo Canyon's impact is almost two billion dollars every year.
And
there's one other "hot topic" I'd like to mention, and that's the once-through-cooling system that is used at the plant.
DCPP is situated next to the Pacific ocean for a very good reason: a gigantic supply of cold seawater provides a
very simple and inexpensive way to provide cooling for the condensers in the non-nuclear side of the plant.
There's been a lot of talk about forcing PG&E to abandon the existing
once-through-cooling system. The people behind this idea have argued that using massive amounts of ocean
water ends up killing large amounts of marine life. I think they want you to believe that the plant sucks up fish
and crabs and seals and things like that. But when they talk about ocean creatures getting sucked in to our
cooling system... what they're talking about is fish larvae. Larvae! We're talking about things a few
millimeters long. If you know anything about marine biology, you know that fish lay huge amounts of eggs and that
in a tiny section of the ocean there can be huge numbers of larvae. So, yes, when you add up the numbers of how
many larvae are sucked up in to our cooling system over a long period of time... you can make the numbers sound
pretty big. But it's just larvae, and it's an insignificant tiny fraction of the overall population. Even if
Diablo Canyon didn't use ocean water for cooling, about 98% of those larvae wouldn't reach adulthood anyway.
That's why fish lay so many eggs! Let's say they modified the plant to eliminate the once-through-cooling system.
Huge numbers of fish larvae would be saved... and how many of them would grow up to be adult fish? About 50
a day. And to achieve this addition of 50 fish per day to the Pacific Ocean would cost how much to make the
modifications to the plant? Somewhere in the vicinity of $2,000,000,000 - $4,000,000,000, and it would all have to
be paid for by PG&E's customers in the form of a rate increase. Do the math and divide it out and see how much it
works out to... per adult fish saved. It's an absolutely CRAZY idea that makes no sense at all.
---
The power plant is surrounded by a large buffer zone of
several hundred acres. The buffer zone is in pristine condition and hasn't changed much from the days when native
Americans lived here. Public access to this part of the coastline is extremely limited, and the land is used
mainly for livestock grazing. Here are a few photos from PG&E's property surrounding the Diablo Canyon site...
An April 2007 photo from the area north of the power plant
Just a little bit north of the previous photo, I put the camera on a tripod so I could be in this shot
A March 2007 photo from the other (south) side of the power plant, looking north
The Point San Luis lighthouse sits on the far south end of the Diablo Canyon buffer zone.
[Click here](PechoCoastTrail.html) to see some pretty photos I took on a hike to the lighthouse in 2003
| |
| --- |
|
How about a few more pictures?
The next two were shot by [my son, Jeff,](kids.html)
during a plane ride he got to take when he was 13 years old. |
|
Aerial photo of Port San Luis
The harbor at Port San Luis
(Notice the wing of the plane is visible at the top of the picture.)
The main entrance to the plant site is located here in Port San Luis, but the plant itself is actually about 8 miles up
the coast. Plant employees are treated to a spectacular view of the coast during the commute to and from work each day. |
|
Port San Luis and Avila Beach
Another view of Port San Luis
That's Avila Beach and the Avila pier at the far right. |
|
Incredible photo of whale almost totally out of the water
A spectacular whale shot
This picture was taken about 3 miles offshore of Diablo Canyon by [Barry Paulsen](mailto:barryp@ridgecrest.ca.us).
He saw the Diablo pictures on this page and was kind enough to send this picture to me.
Thanks, Barry! |
| |
| --- |
| Visit the [Jim Zim photo gallery](pictures.html), featuring more pictures I've
taken throughout San Luis Obispo county |
---
Public tours of Diablo Canyon were discontinued after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
However, PG&E does have a facility in San Luis Obispo called the Energy Education Center… which features exhibits
about a variety of PG&E interests including the Diablo Canyon power plant. If you're interested in Diablo Canyon
and you happen to be in our area, I would definitely suggest stopping by the E.E.C. for a look at the exhibits.
The address is 6588 Ontario Road in San Luis Obispo… which is just off the 101 freeway at the San Luis Bay Drive
exit.
[Click here](https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=6588+Ontario+Road,++San+Luis+Obispo&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.772232,104.238281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=6588+Ontario+Rd,+San+Luis+Obispo,+California+93405&t=h&z=17) to see it on Google maps.
[Click here](http://www.pge.com/myhome/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/communityoutreach/energyedu/)
to read a little more about the E.E.C., including their operating hours and phone number.
---
Please note:
All pictures on this page have been reviewed by DCPP security, and have been cleared for display on this site.
If you'd like to see more pictures of the San Luis Obispo county area
that I've taken with my digital camera, please visit my [SLO pictures](OurHouse.html) page.
| |
| --- |
|
Please note that this is an unofficial Diablo Canyon web site.
If you would like to visit the official PG&E web site, please
[click here
click here for pge.com](http://www.pge.com/mybusiness/edusafety/systemworks/dcpp/)
Please don't write me asking about jobs with PG&E!
For employment information, [click here](http://www.pge.com/careers/).
For Diablo Canyon tours, call 805-546-5280 |
To read a fascinating article
about the nuclear power industry,
which discusses the important role that nuclear plays in our nation's energy mix
and also covers reactor safety, the storage of nuclear waste, and how nuclear power
plays an important role in the fight against global warming
[click here](http://www.ibew1245.com/Global_Warming/Global_Warming_Nuclear_Revisited_1-18-08.pdf).
---
---
There is a LOT more to this web site than just this page!
Please explore the rest of the site by viewing our [table of contents](contents.html),
or by clicking on one of the quick links below.
***[JimZim.net Main Page](index.html)
[Meet Jim Zim](jim.html)
[Cruise Ships](CruiseShips.html)
[All About Our Cocker Spaniels](http://www.zimfamilycockers.com)***
*Copyright ©2021 [Jim Zimmerlin](mailto:james.zimmerlin@gmail.com),
Pasco, Washington. All rights reserved.*
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<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/history.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-book.gif alt=disney title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Mouse History site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/history.html>Mouse History 101</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tarzan.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-tarzan-disney.jpg alt=tarzan title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Tarzan site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tarzan.html>The Tarzan Equation</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dglitch.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-glitch.gif alt=disney title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney Glitches site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dglitch.html>Disney Glitches</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/donald.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-donald.jpg alt=donald duck title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Donald Duck site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/donald.html>Donald Duck's Family Tree</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mice.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-tail.gif alt=mice title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney mice site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mice.html>Mouse Tales</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dquiz.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-quiz.gif alt=trivia title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney Trivia site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dquiz.html>The Not-Your-Average Disney Trivia Quiz</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/disneyana.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-bag-d.gif alt=disneyana title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disneyana shopping site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/disneyana.html>Disneyana For Sale</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villain.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-villain.jpg alt=villain title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney villain site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villain.html>Guilty! The Disney Villains</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/bakerst.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-basil.jpg alt=basil title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Great Mouse Detective site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/bakerst.html>The Great Mouse Detective</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mickey.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-mickey.jpg alt=mickey title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Mickey Mouse site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mickey.html>Guide to Mickey Mouse Shorts</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villainmisc.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-john.jpg title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Other Disney Villains site" alt=disney width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villainmisc.html>Guilty! Disney's Other Villains</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/house.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-house.jpg alt=house title="Link to Whatsits Galore's House of Mouse site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/house.html>House of Mouse</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/henchmen.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-henchman.jpg alt=minion title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney henchman site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/henchmen.html>Henchmen, Minions & Goons</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collectible.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-collectible.jpg alt=collectible title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Perfect Disney Collectible site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collectible.html>The Perfect Collectible</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/stitch.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-stitch.jpg alt=stitch title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Lilo and Stitch site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/stitch.html>Beyond Experiment 626</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/hero.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-herc.jpg alt=hercules title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Hercules site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/hero.html>Phil's Hero Rules</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/advice.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-alice.jpg alt=wonderland title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Very Good Advice site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/advice.html>Very Good Advice</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/goof.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-goofy.jpg alt=goofy title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Ev'rybody Wants to Be a Goof site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/goof.html>Everybody Wants to Be a Goof</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/costume.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-costume.jpg alt=costume title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Easy Disney Costumes site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/costume.html>Easy Disney Costumes</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tough.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-bird.jpg alt=bird title="Link to Whatsits Galore's It's Tough to be a Bird site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tough.html>It's Tough to Be a Bird</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/buzz.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-buzz.jpg alt=lightyear title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Buzz Lightyear site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/buzz.html>Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Couture</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/princess.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-princess.jpg alt=princess title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney princess site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/princess.html>Definitive Princess List</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/girls.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-girls.gif alt=disney title="Link to Whatsits Galore's For Disney Girls Only site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/girls.html>For Disney Girls Only</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/separated.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-twin.jpg alt=twin title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney Separated at Birth site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/separated.html>Separated at Birth</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/prep.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-prep.jpg alt=prep title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Prep & Landing site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/prep.html>Prep & Landing</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/point.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-point.jpg alt=point title="Link to Whatsits Galore's The Disney Point site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/point.html>The Disney Point</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/timeline.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-timeline.jpg alt=timeline title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney timeline site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/timeline.html>Animated Feature Timeline</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/lootcrate.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-loot-crate.jpg alt=lootcrate title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Disney Unbirthday Loot Crate site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/lootcrate.html>Unbirthday Loot Crate</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-miguel.jpg alt=coco title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Coco site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html>Coco: The Rivera Family Tree</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/end.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-end.jpg alt=villain title="Link to Whatsits Galore's The End: The Final Fate of Disney Villains site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/end.html>Final Fate of Disney Villains</a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/darkwing.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-darkwing.jpg alt=darkwing title="Link to Whatsits Galore's Darkwing Duck site" width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/darkwing.html>Darkwing Duck</a></td><!--
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/tiny-art/tiny-miguel.jpg alt=coco width=71 height=71 border=0></a></td>
<td><a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html>Coco: The Rivera Family Tree</a></td> -->
</tr>
</table></center>
<p>
<center>
New! <a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/collection.html>Great Mouse Detective tee</a> December 15, 2023</p>
<p>
Have a very Disney day!</p>
<p>
</center></p>
</td>
<td valign=top>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/advertise.html target="_blank"><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/ad-art/ad-ad.jpg width=283 height=268 alt=advertise title="advertise with Whatsits Galore"></a></p>
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<p>
<a href=https://worldsofdisney07.proboards.com target="_blank"><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/rpg/wodsidebar.jpg width=283 height=268 alt=Disney title="Disney role playing at Worlds of Disney"></a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>
<font size="2">
All Disney characters & images © Disney and are used for fan purposes only<br>
All other content © 2001-2023 Whatsits Galore<br></font>
<center>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/email.html><img src=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/art/disneyemail.gif width=203 height=106 alt=email title="Email Whatsits Galore"></a>
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<font size="3">
OTHER LINKS:<br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/testimonial.html>Testimonials</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collector.html>So You Wanna Be a Collector...</a><br>
<a href=https://worldsofdisney07.proboards.com target="_blank">Disney Roleplaying Site</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/dragonmaster.html>Dragonmaster Game Variants</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/gallery.html>Star Trek Poster Gallery</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/kolchak.html>The Kolchak Survival Guide</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/quark.html>Six Flavors of Quark</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/brisco.html>Brisco County, Jr. & The Orb</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/mcgee.html>The Incredible Jack McGee</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/spook.html>The Spooks of Scooby-Doo</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/fed.html>Greatest American Hero Fed-Speak</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/panini.html>Panini Stickers</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/gospel.html>Life With Purpose</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sitemap.html>Site Map</a><br>
<a href=https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/index.html>Home Base</a>
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</body></html> | Whatsits Galore's Disney Home Page: Trivia, Glitches, & More
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h2 {
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Disney Fans, Nuts & Maniacs:
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}
WHATSITS GALORE'S DISNEY PAGES
h3 {
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are for you!
Oo-de-lally! Discover your E-Ticket to Disney trivia and glitches, heroes and villains, collectibles, movies, and so much more! If you love all things Disney, you have a kindred spirit in Whatsits Galore. So get your mouse ears on and get set to be our guest.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| **NON-DISNEY SITES:
---
[THE BALLAD OF GILLIGAN'S TRIAL](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/gilligan.html)
---
[TV GLITCHES](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/glitch/glitch.html)
---
[WORLD'S LONGEST YARD SALE](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/yardsale.html)
---
[CHRISTMAS QUIZ](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/christmas.html)
---
[SHERLOCK HOLMES](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sherlock/holmes.html)
---
[SKITS & BITS](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/skits/skitsbits.html)
---
[GET SMART](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/catchphrase.html)
---
[WACKY RACES](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/wackyraces.html)
---
[DWARF IDENTIFICATION GUIDE](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/dwarf.html)
---
[TARZAN'S DICTIONARY](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/tarmangani.html)
---** |
| | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [kuzco](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/kuzco.html) | [Kuzco, Disney's Bad Boy Hero](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/kuzco.html) | [disney](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/history.html) | [Mouse History 101](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/history.html) | [tarzan](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tarzan.html) | [The Tarzan Equation](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tarzan.html) |
| [disney](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dglitch.html) | [Disney Glitches](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dglitch.html) | [donald](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/donald.html) | [Donald Duck's Family Tree](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/donald.html) | [mice](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mice.html) | [Mouse Tales](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mice.html) |
| [trivia](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dquiz.html) | [The Not-Your-Average Disney Trivia Quiz](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/dquiz.html) | [disneyana](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/disneyana.html) | [Disneyana For Sale](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/disneyana.html) | [villain](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villain.html) | [Guilty! The Disney Villains](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villain.html) |
| [basil](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/bakerst.html) | [The Great Mouse Detective](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/bakerst.html) | [mickey](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mickey.html) | [Guide to Mickey Mouse Shorts](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/mickey.html) | [disney](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villainmisc.html) | [Guilty! Disney's Other Villains](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/villainmisc.html) |
| [house](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/house.html) | [House of Mouse](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/house.html) | [minion](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/henchmen.html) | [Henchmen, Minions & Goons](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/henchmen.html) | [collectible](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collectible.html) | [The Perfect Collectible](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collectible.html) |
| [stitch](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/stitch.html) | [Beyond Experiment 626](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/stitch.html) | [hercules](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/hero.html) | [Phil's Hero Rules](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/hero.html) | [wonderland](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/advice.html) | [Very Good Advice](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/advice.html) |
| [goofy](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/goof.html) | [Everybody Wants to Be a Goof](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/goof.html) | [costume](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/costume.html) | [Easy Disney Costumes](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/costume.html) | [bird](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tough.html) | [It's Tough to Be a Bird](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tough.html) |
| [lightyear](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/buzz.html) | [Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Couture](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/buzz.html) | [princess](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/princess.html) | [Definitive Princess List](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/princess.html) | [disney](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/girls.html) | [For Disney Girls Only](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/girls.html) |
| [twin](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/separated.html) | [Separated at Birth](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/separated.html) | [prep](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/prep.html) | [Prep & Landing](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/prep.html) | [point](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/point.html) | [The Disney Point](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/point.html) |
| [timeline](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/timeline.html) | [Animated Feature Timeline](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/timeline.html) | [lootcrate](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/lootcrate.html) | [Unbirthday Loot Crate](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/lootcrate.html) | [coco](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html) | [Coco: The Rivera Family Tree](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/coco.html) |
| [villain](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/end.html) | [Final Fate of Disney Villains](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/end.html) | [darkwing](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/darkwing.html) | [Darkwing Duck](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/darkwing.html) |
New! [Great Mouse Detective tee](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/basil/collection.html) December 15, 2023
Have a very Disney day!
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All Disney characters & images © Disney and are used for fan purposes only
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OTHER LINKS:
[Testimonials](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/sales/testimonial.html)
[So You Wanna Be a Collector...](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/collector.html)
[Disney Roleplaying Site](https://worldsofdisney07.proboards.com)
[Dragonmaster Game Variants](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/dragonmaster.html)
[Star Trek Poster Gallery](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/gallery.html)
[The Kolchak Survival Guide](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/kolchak.html)
[Six Flavors of Quark](https://www.whatsitsgalore.com/etc/quark.html)
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<div class="rln special">
<div class="rln0a topC">
<b class="ln">Latest books:</b>
<a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#SleepAndTheSoul"><img class="cover alignRight" src="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Sleep.png" width="128" height="168" alt="Sleep and the Soul" /></a>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
<b class="a">Sleep and the Soul</b>, eBook, Greg Egan, 2023.<br />
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (Australia)</a>,
<a href="https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1302943" target="_top">Smashwords</a>,
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/sleep-and-the-soul/id6445246292" target="_top">Apple Books</a>,
<a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/sleep-and-the-soul-greg-egan/1142892618?ean=2940165991073" target="_top">Barnes and Noble Nook</a>,
<a href="https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/sleep-and-the-soul" target="_top">Kobo</a>,
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=yVSkEAAAQBAJ" target="_top">Google Play</a>; also in paperback from
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/192224046X" target="_top">Amazon (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/192224046X" target="_top">Amazon (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/192224046X" target="_top">Amazon (Australia)</a> etc.
<div class="storyList">
<p>“You and Whose Army?”</p>
<p>“This Is Not the Way Home”</p>
<p>“Zeitgeber”</p>
<p>“Crisis Actors”</p>
<p>“Sleep and the Soul”</p>
<p>“After Zero”</p>
<p>“Dream Factory”</p>
<p>“Light Up the Clouds”</p>
<p>“Night Running”</p>
<p>“Solidity”</p>
</div>
<b class="ln"> </b>
<a href="SCALE/SCALE.html"><img class="cover alignRight" src="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Scale.png" width="128" height="168" alt="Scale" /></a>
</div>
<div class="rln0a bottomC">
<b class="a">Scale</b>, eBook, Greg Egan, 2023.<br />
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRG3KPY7" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BRG3KPY7" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0BRG3KPY7" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (Australia)</a>,
<a href="https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1305954" target="_top">Smashwords</a>,
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/scale/id6445269507" target="_top">Apple Books</a>,
<a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/scale-greg-egan/1142919060?ean=2940165995200" target="_top">Barnes and Noble Nook</a>,
<a href="https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/scale-23" target="_top">Kobo</a>,
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=_LqkEAAAQBAJ" target="_top">Google Play</a>; also in paperback from
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240435" target="_top">Amazon (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240435" target="_top">Amazon (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240435" target="_top">Amazon (Australia)</a> etc.
<p class="closer">
Read an <a href="SCALE/00/ScaleExcerpt.html">excerpt</a>.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="rln">
<div class="rln1a topC">
<b class="ln">Recent books:</b>
<a href="ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html"><img class="cover alignRight" src="images/AllSkies.jpg" width="128" height="168" alt="The Book of All Skies" /></a>
</div>
<div class="rln1b">
<b class="a">The Book of All Skies</b>, eBook, Greg Egan, 2021.<br />
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FJW3TGR" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FJW3TGR" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B09FJW3TGR" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (Australia)</a>,
<a href="https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1102878" target="_top">Smashwords</a>,
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-all-skies/id1584630408" target="_top">Apple Books</a>,
<a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-book-of-all-skies-greg-egan/1140147041" target="_top">Barnes and Noble Nook</a>,
<a href="https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/the-book-of-all-skies" target="_top">Kobo</a>,
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=92dEEAAAQBAJ" target="_top">Google Play</a>; also in paperback from
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240389" target="_top">Amazon (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240389" target="_top">Amazon (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240389" target="_top">Amazon (Australia)</a> etc.
<p class="closer">
Read an <a href="ALLSKIES/00/AllSkiesExcerpt.html">excerpt</a>. </p>
<b class="ln"> </b>
<a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Instantiation"><img class="cover alignRight" src="images/Instantiation.jpg" width="128" height="168" alt="Instantiation" /></a>
</div>
<div class="rln1a bottomC">
<b class="a">Instantiation</b>, eBook, Greg Egan, 2020.<br />
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0845ZQLK6" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0845ZQLK6" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0845ZQLK6" target="_top">Amazon Kindle (Australia)</a>,
<a href="https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1001668" target="_top">Smashwords</a>,
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/instantiation/id1496307370" target="_top">Apple Books</a>,
<a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/instantiation-greg-egan/1136266695?ean=2940163451678" target="_top">Barnes and Noble Nook</a>,
<a href="https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/instantiation" target="_top">Kobo</a>,
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=F2hEEAAAQBAJ" target="_top">Google Play</a>; also in paperback from
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240338" target="_top">Amazon (USA)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240338" target="_top">Amazon (UK)</a>,
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240338" target="_top">Amazon (Australia)</a> etc.
<div class="storyList">
<p>“The Discrete Charm of the Turing Machine”</p>
<p>“Zero For Conduct”</p>
<p>“Uncanny Valley”</p>
<p>“Seventh Sight”</p>
<p>“The Nearest”</p>
<p>“Shadow Flock”</p>
<p>“Bit Players”</p>
<p>“Break My Fall”</p>
<p>“3-adica”</p>
<p>“The Slipway”</p>
<p>“Instantiation”</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<canvas width="360" height="360" id="animate" onclick="animationControls();"><img src="images/Platonic.gif" width="240" height="240" class="noBorder noMargins noVMargins" alt="Platonic" /></canvas>
<div class="m"><p class="cmarg"><span class="header hh"><span itemprop="name">Greg Egan</span>’s<br />Home Page</span></p>
<p class="cmarg"><span class="header"><a href="https://www.gregegan.net" target="_top" title="If you link to this page, please use this URL">www.gregegan.net</a></span></p><br />
<a type="application/rss+xml" href="feed.rss" title="RSS feed for updates"><img src="images/feed-icon-14x14.png" width="14" height="14" alt="RSS" class="cover alignRight" /></a>
<p class="lr"><a href="SiteMap.html#LastRevision">Last revision:</a> <!-- *Substitute LastRevision -->Monday, 11 December 2023<!-- *EndSubstitute --><br />
<a type="application/rss+xml" href="feed.rss">RSS feed for updates</a><br />
Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/gregeganSF" rel="me" title="Twitter" target="_top">@gregeganSF</a>
<br />
Mastodon: <a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@gregeganSF" rel="me" title="Mastodon" target="_top">@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz</a>
</p></div>
<div class="m"><p>I am a <span itemprop="jobTitle">science fiction writer</span> and computer programmer.
This site contains:</p>
<ul>
<li>information, illustrations and applets to supplement <a href="#CONTENTS">some of my work</a>;</li>
<li>a <a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Bibliography.html">bibliography</a>;</li>
<li>links to <a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html">works online</a> (including <b>many free stories</b>);</li>
<li>the <a href="FOUNDATIONS/index.html">Foundations</a> series of introductory
science articles;</li>
<li>some more technical <a href="SCIENCE/Science.html">science notes</a>;</li>
<li>an <a href="APPLETS/Applets.html">applets gallery</a>;</li>
<li><a href="SMFrame.html" target="_top">side-bar</a> and <a href="SiteMap.html#d1" target="_top">full-screen</a> site maps.</li></ul></div>
<div class="msm">
<ul>
<li><b>Contact details:</b> My email address can be formed from parts of the URL of this web site.
Please don’t send messages to my agents or to other third parties to pass on
to me, and please don’t ask me to sign books.</li>
<li><b>There are <a href="images/GregEgan.htm">no photos</a> of me on the web.</b> The world contains many
people besides me who are named Greg Egan, and thanks to <a href="ESSAYS/GOOGLE/Google.html">the idiots at
Google and the trashy click-bait sites they rely on</a> it’s possible to find images online of
half a dozen different people that are labelled as “Australian SF writer Greg Egan,” but none
are what they claim to be.</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<div class="rln special">
<div class="rln0a topC">
<b class="ln">Recent novellas:</b>
<a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Phoresis"><img class="cover alignRight" src="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Phoresis.png" width="128" height="168" alt="Phoresis and Other Journeys" /></a>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <a href="BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Phoresis"><b>Phoresis and Other Journeys</b></a>
<p class="closer">A collection of three novellas previously published as separate limited-edition
hardbacks:</p>
<div class="storyList" style="column-width: 100%; column-count: 1;">
<p>“The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred”</p>
<p>“Dispersion”</p>
<p>“Phoresis”</p>
</div>
<img class="cover alignRight" src="images/PerihelionSummer.jpg" width="80" height="128" alt="Perihelion Summer" />
</div>
<div class="rln0a bottomC">
• <span class="a">“Perihelion Summer”</span>
<p class="closer">Paperback/eBook novella from Tor.com books, April 2019.</p>
<br class="clearAll" />
</div>
</div>
<div class="rln special">
<div class="rln0a topC">
<b class="ln">Latest short:</b>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <span class="a">“Death and the Gorgon”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Asimov’s Science Fiction</i>, Jan/Feb 2024.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0a">
• <span class="a">“Didicosm”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Analog</i>, July/August 2023.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <span class="a">“Night Running”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Asimov’s Science Fiction</i>, Mar/Apr 2023.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0a">
• <span class="a">“Crisis Actors”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Tomorrow’s Parties: Life in the Anthropocene</i>, edited by Jonathan Strahan, MIT Press/Technology Review, 2022.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <span class="a">“Solidity”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Asimov’s Science Fiction</i>, Sep/Oct 2022.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0a">
• <span class="a">“After Zero”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Phase Change: New SF Energies</i>, edited by Matthew Chrulew, Twelfth Planet Press, 2022.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <a href="https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/egan_04_22" target="_top">“Dream Factory”</a>
<p class="closer">Clarkesworld, April 2022.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0a">
• <span class="a">“Sleep and the Soul”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Asimov’s Science Fiction</i>, Sep/Oct 2021.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0b">
• <span class="a">“Light Up the Clouds”</span>
<p class="closer"><i>Asimov’s Science Fiction</i>, Mar/Apr 2021.</p>
</div>
<div class="rln0a bottomC">
• <a href="https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/egan_10_20" target="_top">“You and Whose Army?”</a>
<p class="closer">Clarkesworld, October 2020.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="clearLeft" />
<div class="suppT" data-nosnippet>
<a id="CONTENTS"></a>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="ALLSKIES"><a href="ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html"><img src="ALLSKIES/AllSkies100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="The Book of All Skies" title="The Book of All Skies" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="ALLSKIES"><a href="ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html"><b>The Book of All Skies</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="BORDER"><a href="BORDER/Border.html"><img src="BORDER/Border100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Border Guards" title="Border Guards" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="BORDER"><a href="BORDER/Border.html">“Border Guards”</a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="DIASPORA"><a href="DIASPORA/DIASPORA.html"><img src="DIASPORA/Diaspora100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Diaspora" title="Diaspora" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="DIASPORA"><a href="DIASPORA/DIASPORA.html"><b>Diaspora</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="DICHRONAUTS"><a href="DICHRONAUTS/DICHRONAUTS.html"><img src="DICHRONAUTS/Dichronauts100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Dichronauts" title="Dichronauts" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="DICHRONAUTS"><a href="DICHRONAUTS/DICHRONAUTS.html"><b>Dichronauts</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="DIDICOSM"><a href="DIDICOSM/Didicosm.html"><img src="DIDICOSM/Didicosm100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Didicosm" title="Didicosm" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="DIDICOSM"><a href="DIDICOSM/Didicosm.html">“Didicosm”</a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="DISTRESS"><a href="DISTRESS/DISTRESS.html"><img src="DISTRESS/Distress100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Distress" title="Distress" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="DISTRESS"><a href="DISTRESS/DISTRESS.html"><b>Distress</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="INCANDESCENCE"><a href="INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence.html"><img src="INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Incandescence" title="Incandescence" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="INCANDESCENCE"><a href="INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence.html"><b>Incandescence</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="OCEANIC"><a href="OCEANIC/Oceanic.html"><img src="OCEANIC/Oceanic100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Oceanic" title="Oceanic" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="OCEANIC"><a href="OCEANIC/Oceanic.html">“Oceanic”</a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="ORTHOGONAL"><a href="ORTHOGONAL/ORTHOGONAL.html"><img src="ORTHOGONAL/Orthogonal100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Orthogonal" title="Orthogonal" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="ORTHOGONAL"><a href="ORTHOGONAL/ORTHOGONAL.html"><b>Orthogonal</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="PERMUTATION"><a href="PERMUTATION/Permutation.html"><img src="PERMUTATION/Permutation100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Permutation City" title="Permutation City" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="PERMUTATION"><a href="PERMUTATION/Permutation.html"><b>Permutation City</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="PLANCK"><a href="PLANCK/Planck.html"><img src="PLANCK/Planck100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="The Planck Dive" title="The Planck Dive" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="PLANCK"><a href="PLANCK/Planck.html">“The Planck Dive”</a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="QUARANTINE"><a href="QUARANTINE/Quarantine.html"><img src="QUARANTINE/Quarantine100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Quarantine" title="Quarantine" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="QUARANTINE"><a href="QUARANTINE/Quarantine.html"><b>Quarantine</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="SCALE"><a href="SCALE/SCALE.html"><img src="SCALE/Scale100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Scale" title="Scale" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="SCALE"><a href="SCALE/SCALE.html"><b>Scale</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="SCHILD"><a href="SCHILD/SCHILD.html"><img src="SCHILD/Schild100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Schild's Ladder" title="Schild's Ladder" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="SCHILD"><a href="SCHILD/SCHILD.html"><b>Schild’s Ladder</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="TERANESIA"><a href="TERANESIA/TERANESIA.html"><img src="TERANESIA/Teranesia100.png" width="100" height="100" alt="Teranesia" title="Teranesia" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="TERANESIA"><a href="TERANESIA/TERANESIA.html"><b>Teranesia</b></a></td></tr></table>
<table class="hover">
<tr class="t1"><td class="ZENDEGI"><a href="ZENDEGI/ZENDEGI.html"><img src="ZENDEGI/Zendegi100.gif" width="100" height="100" alt="Zendegi" title="Zendegi" /></a></td></tr>
<tr class="t2"><td class="ZENDEGI"><a href="ZENDEGI/ZENDEGI.html"><b>Zendegi</b></a></td></tr></table>
<br class="clearLeft" />
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<span class="snippet">Official web site of the science fiction writer Greg Egan.</span>
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Greg Egan’s Home Page
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**Latest books:**
[](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#SleepAndTheSoul)
**Sleep and the Soul**, eBook, Greg Egan, 2023.
[Amazon Kindle (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ),
[Amazon Kindle (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ),
[Amazon Kindle (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0BT7TRPYZ),
[Smashwords](https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1302943),
[Apple Books](https://books.apple.com/us/book/sleep-and-the-soul/id6445246292),
[Barnes and Noble Nook](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/sleep-and-the-soul-greg-egan/1142892618?ean=2940165991073),
[Kobo](https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/sleep-and-the-soul),
[Google Play](https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=yVSkEAAAQBAJ); also in paperback from
[Amazon (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/192224046X),
[Amazon (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/192224046X),
[Amazon (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/192224046X) etc.
“You and Whose Army?”
“This Is Not the Way Home”
“Zeitgeber”
“Crisis Actors”
“Sleep and the Soul”
“After Zero”
“Dream Factory”
“Light Up the Clouds”
“Night Running”
“Solidity”
[](SCALE/SCALE.html)
**Scale**, eBook, Greg Egan, 2023.
[Amazon Kindle (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRG3KPY7),
[Amazon Kindle (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BRG3KPY7),
[Amazon Kindle (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0BRG3KPY7),
[Smashwords](https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1305954),
[Apple Books](https://books.apple.com/us/book/scale/id6445269507),
[Barnes and Noble Nook](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/scale-greg-egan/1142919060?ean=2940165995200),
[Kobo](https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/scale-23),
[Google Play](https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=_LqkEAAAQBAJ); also in paperback from
[Amazon (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240435),
[Amazon (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240435),
[Amazon (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240435) etc.
Read an [excerpt](SCALE/00/ScaleExcerpt.html).
**Recent books:**
[](ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html)
**The Book of All Skies**, eBook, Greg Egan, 2021.
[Amazon Kindle (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FJW3TGR),
[Amazon Kindle (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FJW3TGR),
[Amazon Kindle (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B09FJW3TGR),
[Smashwords](https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1102878),
[Apple Books](https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-all-skies/id1584630408),
[Barnes and Noble Nook](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-book-of-all-skies-greg-egan/1140147041),
[Kobo](https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/the-book-of-all-skies),
[Google Play](https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=92dEEAAAQBAJ); also in paperback from
[Amazon (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240389),
[Amazon (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240389),
[Amazon (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240389) etc.
Read an [excerpt](ALLSKIES/00/AllSkiesExcerpt.html).
[](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Instantiation)
**Instantiation**, eBook, Greg Egan, 2020.
[Amazon Kindle (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0845ZQLK6),
[Amazon Kindle (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0845ZQLK6),
[Amazon Kindle (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0845ZQLK6),
[Smashwords](https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1001668),
[Apple Books](https://books.apple.com/us/book/instantiation/id1496307370),
[Barnes and Noble Nook](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/instantiation-greg-egan/1136266695?ean=2940163451678),
[Kobo](https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/instantiation),
[Google Play](https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=F2hEEAAAQBAJ); also in paperback from
[Amazon (USA)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1922240338),
[Amazon (UK)](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1922240338),
[Amazon (Australia)](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1922240338) etc.
“The Discrete Charm of the Turing Machine”
“Zero For Conduct”
“Uncanny Valley”
“Seventh Sight”
“The Nearest”
“Shadow Flock”
“Bit Players”
“Break My Fall”
“3-adica”
“The Slipway”
“Instantiation”
Greg Egan’s
Home Page
[www.gregegan.net](https://www.gregegan.net "If you link to this page, please use this URL")
[](feed.rss "RSS feed for updates")
[Last revision:](SiteMap.html#LastRevision) Monday, 11 December 2023
[RSS feed for updates](feed.rss)
Twitter: [@gregeganSF](https://twitter.com/gregeganSF "Twitter")
Mastodon: [@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz](https://mathstodon.xyz/@gregeganSF "Mastodon")
I am a science fiction writer and computer programmer.
This site contains:
* information, illustrations and applets to supplement [some of my work](#CONTENTS);
* a [bibliography](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Bibliography.html);
* links to [works online](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html) (including **many free stories**);
* the [Foundations](FOUNDATIONS/index.html) series of introductory
science articles;
* some more technical [science notes](SCIENCE/Science.html);
* an [applets gallery](APPLETS/Applets.html);
* [side-bar](SMFrame.html) and [full-screen](SiteMap.html#d1) site maps.
* **Contact details:** My email address can be formed from parts of the URL of this web site.
Please don’t send messages to my agents or to other third parties to pass on
to me, and please don’t ask me to sign books.
* **There are [no photos](images/GregEgan.htm) of me on the web.** The world contains many
people besides me who are named Greg Egan, and thanks to [the idiots at
Google and the trashy click-bait sites they rely on](ESSAYS/GOOGLE/Google.html) it’s possible to find images online of
half a dozen different people that are labelled as “Australian SF writer Greg Egan,” but none
are what they claim to be.
**Recent novellas:**
[](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Phoresis)
• [**Phoresis and Other Journeys**](BIBLIOGRAPHY/Ebooks.html#Phoresis)
A collection of three novellas previously published as separate limited-edition
hardbacks:
“The Four Thousand, the Eight Hundred”
“Dispersion”
“Phoresis”
• “Perihelion Summer”
Paperback/eBook novella from Tor.com books, April 2019.
**Latest short:**
• “Death and the Gorgon”
*Asimov’s Science Fiction*, Jan/Feb 2024.
• “Didicosm”
*Analog*, July/August 2023.
• “Night Running”
*Asimov’s Science Fiction*, Mar/Apr 2023.
• “Crisis Actors”
*Tomorrow’s Parties: Life in the Anthropocene*, edited by Jonathan Strahan, MIT Press/Technology Review, 2022.
• “Solidity”
*Asimov’s Science Fiction*, Sep/Oct 2022.
• “After Zero”
*Phase Change: New SF Energies*, edited by Matthew Chrulew, Twelfth Planet Press, 2022.
• [“Dream Factory”](https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/egan_04_22)
Clarkesworld, April 2022.
• “Sleep and the Soul”
*Asimov’s Science Fiction*, Sep/Oct 2021.
• “Light Up the Clouds”
*Asimov’s Science Fiction*, Mar/Apr 2021.
• [“You and Whose Army?”](https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/egan_10_20)
Clarkesworld, October 2020.
| |
| --- |
| [The Book of All Skies](ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html) |
| [**The Book of All Skies**](ALLSKIES/AllSkies.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Border Guards](BORDER/Border.html) |
| [“Border Guards”](BORDER/Border.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Diaspora](DIASPORA/DIASPORA.html) |
| [**Diaspora**](DIASPORA/DIASPORA.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Dichronauts](DICHRONAUTS/DICHRONAUTS.html) |
| [**Dichronauts**](DICHRONAUTS/DICHRONAUTS.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Didicosm](DIDICOSM/Didicosm.html) |
| [“Didicosm”](DIDICOSM/Didicosm.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Distress](DISTRESS/DISTRESS.html) |
| [**Distress**](DISTRESS/DISTRESS.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Incandescence](INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence.html) |
| [**Incandescence**](INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Oceanic](OCEANIC/Oceanic.html) |
| [“Oceanic”](OCEANIC/Oceanic.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Orthogonal](ORTHOGONAL/ORTHOGONAL.html) |
| [**Orthogonal**](ORTHOGONAL/ORTHOGONAL.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Permutation City](PERMUTATION/Permutation.html) |
| [**Permutation City**](PERMUTATION/Permutation.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [The Planck Dive](PLANCK/Planck.html) |
| [“The Planck Dive”](PLANCK/Planck.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Quarantine](QUARANTINE/Quarantine.html) |
| [**Quarantine**](QUARANTINE/Quarantine.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Scale](SCALE/SCALE.html) |
| [**Scale**](SCALE/SCALE.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Schild's Ladder](SCHILD/SCHILD.html) |
| [**Schild’s Ladder**](SCHILD/SCHILD.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Teranesia](TERANESIA/TERANESIA.html) |
| [**Teranesia**](TERANESIA/TERANESIA.html) |
| |
| --- |
| [Zendegi](ZENDEGI/ZENDEGI.html) |
| [**Zendegi**](ZENDEGI/ZENDEGI.html) |
---
Official web site of the science fiction writer Greg Egan.
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [Valid HTML](http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gregegan.net%2Findex.html) | [Valid CSS](http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gregegan.net%2Findex.html) |
Greg Egan’s Home Page / created Saturday, 25 October 1997 / revised Sunday, 12 September 2021
*Copyright © [Greg Egan](images/GregEgan.htm), 1997-2021. All rights reserved.*
| http://www.gregegan.net |
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<meta name=keywords
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<div class=Section1>
<h1 align=center style='text-align:center'><!-- <p><a href="http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/">No Frames version</a></p> -->GEMROCKS:
<span style='font-family:"Bookman Old Style"'>Ornamental & Curio Stones</span></h1>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Compiled by R. V. Dietrich, </b><b><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Professor Emeritus</span></i></b> </p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Illustrations
by Jeffrey Scovil, Dick Dietrich and others</span></b></p>
<div align=center>
<table border=1 cellpadding=0 width="60%" style='width:60.0%;mso-cellspacing:
1.5pt;border:outset 1.5pt;mso-padding-alt:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<tr>
<td width="100%" style='width:100.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Goudy Old Style"'>This compilation is dedicated to the memory
of </span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style"'>ADOLPH
KNOPF (1882-1966),</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style"'>who
instilled in me an insatiable curiosity about rocks.</span></b> </p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><img width=32 height=26
id="_x0000_i1025" src=email.gif alt="Comments or additions are welcome."><b>Comments
or additions are welcome.<br>
<a href="mailto:dietr1rv@mail.cmich.edu">R. V. Dietrich</a> © 2003</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><!-- http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/ -->|
<a href="concretions\index.htm">Carbonate Concretions Bibliography</a> | <a
href="mimetoliths\">Mimetoliths 12/02</a> | <a href="stones\index.htm">Stones:
Addenda 11/02</a> |<br>
| <a href="http://www.gia.edu/education/library.cfm">GIA Library</a> |</p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="70%" noshade color="#aca899" align=center>
</div>
<h3 align=center style='text-align:center'><a name=toc></a><span
style='font-family:Arial'>TABLE of CONTENTS</span> <o:p></o:p></h3>
<div align=center>
<table border=1 cellpadding=0 width="80%" style='width:80.0%;mso-cellspacing:
1.5pt;mso-padding-alt:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt' height=640>
<tr style='height:15.75pt'>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:15.75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Arial'><a
href="gemrx.htm#preface">Preface</a> <br>
<a href="gemrx.htm#intro">Introduction</a></span></p>
</td>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:15.75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Arial'><a href="gemrxIndex.htm">Index</a>
</span></p>
</td>
<td width="50%" style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:15.75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Arial'><a
href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=cyrillic+font"
target="_blank">Cyrillic font sources</a></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style='height:452.25pt'>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:452.25pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="agate.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Agate</span></a>
<br>
<a href="alabaster.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Alabaster</span></a><br>
<a href="amber.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Amber</span></a> <br>
<a href="amphibole.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Amphibole-rich
rocks</span></a><br>
<a href="anhydrite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Anhydrite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="anorthosite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Anorthosite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="argillite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Argillite</span></a><br>
<a href="azurite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Azurite</span></a> </p>
<p><a href="basalt.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Basalt</span></a> <br>
<a href="breccia.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Breccia</span></a> </p>
<p><a href="chalcedony.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Chalcedony</span></a>
<br>
<a href="charoite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Charoite</span></a> <br>
<a href="chert.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Chert</span></a> <br>
<a href="chickenblood.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Chicken-blood
stone</span></a><br>
<a href="chlorastrolite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Chlorastrolite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="chrysocolla.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>"Chrysocolla"</span></a>
<br>
<a href="coal.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Coal</span></a> <br>
<a href="conglomerate.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Conglomerate</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="datolite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Datolite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="marble.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Dolostone</span></a></p>
<p><a href="fluorite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Fluorite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="fossiliferous.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Fossiliferous
rock</span></a> </p>
<p><a href="gneiss.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Gneiss</span></a> <br>
<a href="goodletite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Goodletite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="granite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>"Granite"</span></a>
<br>
<a href="graphic.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Graphic granite</span></a>
</p>
<p><span style='font-family:Arial'><a href="hawkseye.htm">Hawk's-eye</a><br>
<a href="hematite.htm">Hematite</a></span></p>
</td>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:452.25pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Arial'><a href="vesuvianite.htm">Idocrase</a></span></p>
<p><a href="jade.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>The Jades</span></a> <br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'> <a href="jadeite.htm">Jadeite</a></span>
<br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'> <a href="nephrite.htm">Nephrite</a></span>
<br>
<a href="jasper.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Jasper</span></a> <br>
<a href="jet.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Jet</span></a> </p>
<p><a href="lapis.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Lapis lazuli</span></a>
<br>
<a href="larvikite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Larvikite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="leopardite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Leopardite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="leopardrx.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Leopard rock</span></a>
<br>
<a href="marble.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Limestone</span></a></p>
<p><a href="malachite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Malachite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="marble.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Marble</span></a><br>
<a href="meerschaum.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Meerschaum</span></a>
<br>
<a href="meteorites.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Meteorites</span></a>
<br>
<a href="migmatite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Migmatite</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="obsidian.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Obsidian</span></a>
<br>
<a href="onyx.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Onyx</span></a> </p>
<p><span style='font-family:Arial'><a href="perthite.htm">Perthite</a><br>
<a href="porphyry.htm">Porphyry</a></span> <br>
<a href="psilomelane.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Psilomelane</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="quartzite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Quartzite</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="rhodochrosite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Rhodochrosite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="rhodonite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Rhodonite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="rhyolite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Rhyolite</span></a></p>
</td>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt;
height:452.25pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="sandstone.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Sandstone</span></a>
<br>
<a href="septarium.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Septarium</span></a>
<br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'><a href="meerschaum.htm">Sepiolite</a></span><br>
<a href="serpentine.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Serpentine</span></a><br>
<a href="slate.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Slate</span></a><br>
<a href="smithsonite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Smithsonite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="soapstone.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Soapstone</span></a>
<br>
<a href="sodalite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Sodalite</span></a><br>
<a href="soapstone.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Steatite</span></a><br>
<a href="sugilite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Sugilite</span></a> </p>
<p><a href="tektite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Tektite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="thomsonite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Thomsonite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="thunderegg.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Thunder egg</span></a>
<br>
<a href="hawkseye.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Tiger's-eye</span></a><br>
<a href="travertine.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Travertine</span></a>
<br>
<a href="turquoise.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Turquoise</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="unakite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Unakite</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="variscite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Variscite</span></a>
<br>
<a href="vesuvianite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Vesuvianite</span></a>
</p>
<p><a href="zoisite.htm"><span style='font-family:Arial'>Zoisite</span></a>
</p>
<p><b><span style='font-family:Arial'>Appendices:</span></b> <br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'>A. <a href="gemrxAppA.htm">Additional
Gemrocks</a></span> <br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'>B. <a href="gemrxAppB.htm">Glossary</a></span>
<br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'>C. <a href="gemrxAppC.htm">Selected
References</a></span> <br>
<span style='font-family:Arial'>D. <a href="gemrxAppD.htm">Carib's
artifacts</a></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'>| <a href="#top">Top</a> | </p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-family:Arial'>R.
V. Dietrich © 2011</span></b> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Revised: Jul 18, 2011</span>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>web page created by Emmett
Mason</span> </p>
</div>
</body>
</noframes>
</frameset>
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|
GemRocks: Frames version
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# GEMROCKS:
Ornamental & Curio Stones
**Compiled by R. V. Dietrich,** ***Professor Emeritus***
**Illustrations
by Jeffrey Scovil, Dick Dietrich and others**
| |
| --- |
| **This compilation is dedicated to the memory
of**
**ADOLPH
KNOPF (1882-1966),**
**who
instilled in me an insatiable curiosity about rocks.** |
**Comments
or additions are welcome.
[R. V. Dietrich](mailto:dietr1rv@mail.cmich.edu) © 2003**
|
[Carbonate Concretions Bibliography](concretions\index.htm) | [Mimetoliths 12/02](mimetoliths\) | [Stones:
Addenda 11/02](stones\index.htm) |
| [GIA Library](http://www.gia.edu/education/library.cfm) |
---
### TABLE of CONTENTS
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [Preface](gemrx.htm#preface)
[Introduction](gemrx.htm#intro) | [Index](gemrxIndex.htm)
| [Cyrillic font sources](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=cyrillic+font) |
| [Agate](agate.htm)
[Alabaster](alabaster.htm)
[Amber](amber.htm)
[Amphibole-rich
rocks](amphibole.htm)
[Anhydrite](anhydrite.htm)
[Anorthosite](anorthosite.htm)
[Argillite](argillite.htm)
[Azurite](azurite.htm)
[Basalt](basalt.htm)
[Breccia](breccia.htm)
[Chalcedony](chalcedony.htm)
[Charoite](charoite.htm)
[Chert](chert.htm)
[Chicken-blood
stone](chickenblood.htm)
[Chlorastrolite](chlorastrolite.htm)
["Chrysocolla"](chrysocolla.htm)
[Coal](coal.htm)
[Conglomerate](conglomerate.htm)
[Datolite](datolite.htm)
[Dolostone](marble.htm)
[Fluorite](fluorite.htm)
[Fossiliferous
rock](fossiliferous.htm)
[Gneiss](gneiss.htm)
[Goodletite](goodletite.htm)
["Granite"](granite.htm)
[Graphic granite](graphic.htm)
[Hawk's-eye](hawkseye.htm)
[Hematite](hematite.htm) | [Idocrase](vesuvianite.htm)
[The Jades](jade.htm)
[Jadeite](jadeite.htm)
[Nephrite](nephrite.htm)
[Jasper](jasper.htm)
[Jet](jet.htm)
[Lapis lazuli](lapis.htm)
[Larvikite](larvikite.htm)
[Leopardite](leopardite.htm)
[Leopard rock](leopardrx.htm)
[Limestone](marble.htm)
[Malachite](malachite.htm)
[Marble](marble.htm)
[Meerschaum](meerschaum.htm)
[Meteorites](meteorites.htm)
[Migmatite](migmatite.htm)
[Obsidian](obsidian.htm)
[Onyx](onyx.htm)
[Perthite](perthite.htm)
[Porphyry](porphyry.htm)
[Psilomelane](psilomelane.htm)
[Quartzite](quartzite.htm)
[Rhodochrosite](rhodochrosite.htm)
[Rhodonite](rhodonite.htm)
[Rhyolite](rhyolite.htm) | [Sandstone](sandstone.htm)
[Septarium](septarium.htm)
[Sepiolite](meerschaum.htm)
[Serpentine](serpentine.htm)
[Slate](slate.htm)
[Smithsonite](smithsonite.htm)
[Soapstone](soapstone.htm)
[Sodalite](sodalite.htm)
[Steatite](soapstone.htm)
[Sugilite](sugilite.htm)
[Tektite](tektite.htm)
[Thomsonite](thomsonite.htm)
[Thunder egg](thunderegg.htm)
[Tiger's-eye](hawkseye.htm)
[Travertine](travertine.htm)
[Turquoise](turquoise.htm)
[Unakite](unakite.htm)
[Variscite](variscite.htm)
[Vesuvianite](vesuvianite.htm)
[Zoisite](zoisite.htm)
**Appendices:**
A. [Additional
Gemrocks](gemrxAppA.htm)
B. [Glossary](gemrxAppB.htm)
C. [Selected
References](gemrxAppC.htm)
D. [Carib's
artifacts](gemrxAppD.htm) |
| [Top](#top) |
---
**R.
V. Dietrich © 2011**
Revised: Jul 18, 2011
web page created by Emmett
Mason
| http://stoneplus.cst.cmich.edu/default.htm |
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<CENTER><FONT SIZE=-1><A HREF="hist.html">Last update</A>: 1998-05-01</FONT></CENTER>
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<H1>
Rasputin (1869-1917)</H1>
<HR><I>Gregory Yefimovich Rasputin</I> was a notorious intrigant at the
Russian tsarist court. A shameless and crafty manipulator, he extended
his influence to all levels of power. Passing as an Orthodox pope, he got
the nickname <I>the holy devil</I>....
<BR><B>Even a superficial <A HREF="index.html">Phrenological </A>diagnosis
however will be sufficient to unmask the innate evil and the true personality
of this imposter....</B>
<CENTER><IMG SRC="ras.gif" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3" HEIGHT=223 WIDTH=170 ALIGN=BOTTOM></CENTER>
<UL>
<LI>
A wide ear axis (1) stands for a strong dynamic energy (<A HREF="destructiveness.html">Destructiveness</A>),
which also is reflected in a strong vital energy. The tragical circumstances
of Rasputin's death illustrate this: after resisting a strong dose of poison,
he was shot <I>several times</I> by Prince Yussupov before being slain. </LI>
<LI>
The front is wide and protruding (5): well developed <A HREF="faculty.html#perceptive">Perceptive
faculties</A>, practical mind limited to tangible reality. </LI>
<LI>
The skull becomes narrower towards the top, faculties like <A HREF="ideality.html">Ideality</A>
(2) and <A HREF="spirituality.html">Spirituality</A> (3) are notoriously
absent. Low type without noble aspirations. </LI>
<LI>
The upper back of the head is <I>extremely narrow</I>: the faculties of
<A HREF="conscientiousness.html">Conscientiousness</A> and <A HREF="cautiousness.html">Cautiousness</A>
will therefore be very weak. Thus: an audacious person, scrupless, without
any conscience. </LI>
<LI>
The upper back of the head is very high (4): <A HREF="self-esteem.html">Self-esteem</A>,
reinforced by a strong <A HREF="firmness.html">Firmness </A></LI>
</UL>
The skull is ogival shaped, rather than dome-shaped: absence of higher
aspirations, low type. Whenever one comes into contact with individuals
displaying this cranial configuration, caution should be taken!
<BR>The narrow and high back of the skull, as well as the wide ear axis
are an atavistic reminder to the skulls of pre-historic humanoids.
<P>This Phrenological description was adapted from <A HREF="biblionew.html#bouts1">Prof.
Bouts' Psychognomy</A>, with the kind permission of the author.</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><FONT COLOR="#E6E658"><FONT SIZE=-1>© 1998: <A HREF="mailto:webmaster@phrenology.org">LHOON</A> </FONT></FONT>
<BR>
<U><FONT COLOR="#E6E658"><FONT SIZE=-1>Disclaimer: </FONT></FONT></U>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#E6E658"><FONT SIZE=-1>No one but the author of these
pages </FONT></FONT>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#E6E658"><FONT SIZE=-1> accounts for their contents.</FONT></FONT></TD>
<TD><A HREF="examples.html">Return to Examples page</A></TD>
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Examples: Rasputin
body {
background-attachment: fixed;
background-image: url(bkphreno.jpg);
background-repeat: repeat-y;
}
a:link {color:#336666;} /\* unvisited link \*/
a:visited {color:#993300;} /\* visited link \*/
a:hover {color:#FF00FF;} /\* mouse over link \*/
a:active {color:#FF0000;} /\* selected link \*/
p{font-family:"Verdana";}
td{font-family:"Verdana";}
li{font-family:"Verdana";}
| | |
| --- | --- |
|
[Last update](hist.html): 1998-05-01
[mail](mailto:webmaster@phrenology.org)
|
Rasputin (1869-1917)
---
*Gregory Yefimovich Rasputin* was a notorious intrigant at the
Russian tsarist court. A shameless and crafty manipulator, he extended
his influence to all levels of power. Passing as an Orthodox pope, he got
the nickname *the holy devil*....
**Even a superficial [Phrenological](index.html) diagnosis
however will be sufficient to unmask the innate evil and the true personality
of this imposter....**
* A wide ear axis (1) stands for a strong dynamic energy ([Destructiveness](destructiveness.html)),
which also is reflected in a strong vital energy. The tragical circumstances
of Rasputin's death illustrate this: after resisting a strong dose of poison,
he was shot *several times* by Prince Yussupov before being slain.
* The front is wide and protruding (5): well developed [Perceptive
faculties](faculty.html#perceptive), practical mind limited to tangible reality.
* The skull becomes narrower towards the top, faculties like [Ideality](ideality.html)
(2) and [Spirituality](spirituality.html) (3) are notoriously
absent. Low type without noble aspirations.
* The upper back of the head is *extremely narrow*: the faculties of
[Conscientiousness](conscientiousness.html) and [Cautiousness](cautiousness.html)
will therefore be very weak. Thus: an audacious person, scrupless, without
any conscience.
* The upper back of the head is very high (4): [Self-esteem](self-esteem.html),
reinforced by a strong [Firmness](firmness.html)
The skull is ogival shaped, rather than dome-shaped: absence of higher
aspirations, low type. Whenever one comes into contact with individuals
displaying this cranial configuration, caution should be taken!
The narrow and high back of the skull, as well as the wide ear axis
are an atavistic reminder to the skulls of pre-historic humanoids.
This Phrenological description was adapted from [Prof.
Bouts' Psychognomy](biblionew.html#bouts1), with the kind permission of the author. |
| © 1998: [LHOON](mailto:webmaster@phrenology.org)
Disclaimer:
No one but the author of these
pages
accounts for their contents. | [Return to Examples page](examples.html) |
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<a href="altnews.htm"> Bitte hier für alte Black Sabbath News klicken!</a>
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<p align=justify>
Wie einige von Euch sicher mitbekommen haben, waren die letzten Wochen Teile von <b>www.black-sabbath.de</b>
offline. Grund war ein Brief der IFPI (www.ifpi.de, www.ifpi.org) an einen meiner Provider. Obwohl laut
Urheberrecht man sieben Takte von jedem Song frei verwenden kann, scheinen der Plattenindustrie meine 10-Sekunden-MP3-Tracks ein Dorn im Auge zu sein. Solange ich die Rechtslage nicht eindeutig geklärt habe,
sind die Tracks erstmal alle offline.
<p align=justify>
Tourdaten und Bands für daß <i>Ozzfest 2004</i> stehen fest - Details unter <a href="http://knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=2823">knac.com</a> . <b><a href="http://www.tonymartin.net/">Tony
Martin</a></b> wird im Mai 2004 im Rahmen von "Whole Lotta Metal" durch England touren.
<p align=justify>
Auf <a href="http://www.billward.com"><B>billward.com</B></a> kann man sich den neuen Song "The Dark Half Hour" vom bald erscheinenden Album <i>Beyond Aston</i> als MP3 herunterladen - sehr
empfehlenswert! Die neue <b>Dio</b>-DVD von der <i>Sacred Hear</i>-Tour wird am 23. März über Rhino Home Video veröffentlicht. Letztere haben in Vorbereitung der Veröffentlichung
der <b>Black Sabbath</b> <i>Black Box</i> eine Single "Paranoid / Iron Man" rausgebracht - Photo siehe <a href="http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/8f/8f/e9_1_b.JPG">hier</a>. Jeff Pilson wird
wie bereits angekündigt im April mit <b>Dio</b> ein neues Album aufnehmen, aber nicht mit auf Tour gehen. Bekannte Tourdaten <b>Dio 2004</b> sind: 4.8. Karlsruhe, 5.8. Nürnberg - Hirsch.
<p align=justify>
Es war mal wieder ein paar Monate ruhig auf <b>www.black-sabbath.de</b> - wie immer, wenn ich keine Zeit habe, liegt auch die Seite brach. Die meisten Neuigkeiten der letzte Zeit sind schon
überall verkündet worden. <b>Tony Iommi</b>'s "<i>Dep Sessions</i>" sollten mittlerweile sowohl in Europa als auch in Amerika erhätlich sein. Ich habe <a href="http://www.black-sabbath.de/iommi_promo_sheet.jpg">hier</a> einen Scan des zugehörigen Promosheets hinterlegt. <b>Geezer Butler</b> arbeitet mit Sänger Clarc Brown an
seinem dritten Soloalbum "Ohmwork", Veröffentlichung irgendwann 2005. Auf <a href="http://www.twindragonsmusic.com/">twindragonsmusic.com</a> findet man auch ein paar
aktuelle Europa-Tourdaten von <b>Tony Martin</b>.
<p align=justify>
<A NAME="Newsd">
Auf dem <a href="http://www.iommimessageboard.co.uk/">Tony Iommi Messageboard</b></a> wird der Meister demnächst ein paar Fragen persönlich beantworten, ferner ist eine
große Verlosung geplant. Vorbeischauen lohnt sich also! <b>Tony Martin</b> ist weiterhin Teil von <i>Whole Lotta Metal</i> und wird damit dieses Jahr noch ein paar Auftritte in
England absolvieren. In Italien gibt es eine neue Tribute-Band <a href="http://www.warningtribute.com/">The Warning</a>. <br>
In eigener Sache: ein Sammler aus meinem Bekanntenkreis löst gerade seine LP-Sammlung auf - die aktuelle Verkaufsliste kann man <a href="Sale_list_MB_091104.pdf">HIER</a>
finden! Bei interesse email an <a href="mailto: hilmar@black-sabbath.de?subject=LP sell-out">hilmar@black-sabbath.de</a> !
<p align=right>
<a href="#main">Zurück zum Ausgangspunkt.</a>
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<p align=left>
<a href="oldnews.htm"> Please click here for old Black Sabbath News!</a>
<p align=justify>
I did a nice banner which owner of a Black Sabbath page can
use to put links to this site: <p>
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<p align=justify>
As some of you might have noticed, various parts of <b>www.black-sabbath.de</b> have been offline during the last couple of weeks. The reason was a letter send by a group called IFPI (www.ifpi.org) towards my provider. Even it
is allowed - due to the at least German copyright law - to use seven times of each song for free, the record industry seems to have certain problems with the mp3-tracks at the bootleg archive. As long as I do not know what exactly is the deal with illegal or not, I will keep the mp3-stuff offline.
<p align=justify>
The tourdates and bands for this years <i>Ozzfest 2004</i> have been announced - see <a href="http://knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=2823">knac.com</a> . <b><a href="http://www.tonymartin.net/">Tony
Martin</a></b> will go on tour in may 2004 through England as part of "Whole Lotta Metal".
<p align=justify>
At <a href="http://www.billward.com"><B>billward.com</B></a> the brand new track "The Dark Half Hour" from the upcoming album <i>Beyond Aston</i> can be downloaded as an MP3 file - highly
recommended! The new <b>Dio</b>-DVD from the <i>Sacred Heart</i> tour is going to be released at march, 23th through Rhino Home Video. The lader also released in prepartion of the soon coming <b>Black Sabbath</b> <i>Black Box</i> a new single "Paranoid / Iron Man" - photo scan can be found <a href="http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/8f/8f/e9_1_b.JPG">here</a>. As announced Jeff Pilson
will enter together with <b>Dio</b> the studio in april in order to record the new album with the band, but he will not be available for the tour. Known tourdates so far <b>Dio 2004</b>: 4th aug Karlsruhe (Germany), 5th aug Nurnberg - Hirsch (Germany).
<p align=justify>
Again there have been some months of silence at <b>www.black-sabbath.de</b> - as usual when I am running out of time then the activities on the website are doing down as well.
Most of the latest news from the past months already have been spread around quite heavily. <b>Tony Iommi</b>'s "<i>Dep Sessions</i>" should be released and
available now everywhere in Europe as well as America. I put online <a href="http://www.black-sabbath.de/iommi_promo_sheet.jpg">here</a> a scan of the corresponding promo sheet.
<b>Geezer Butler</b> is working now together with singer Clarc Brown on his third solo album, probably called "Ohmwork" and scheduled for release somewhere in 2005.
Please see <a href="http://www.twindragonsmusic.com/">twindragonsmusic.com</a> for a couple of up-to-date European tour dates for <b>Tony Martin</b>.
<p align=justify>
<A NAME="Newse">
At the <a href="http://www.iommimessageboard.co.uk/">Tony Iommi Messageboard</b></a> the riff-master itself is going to answer a couple of questions within the next few weeks. Additionally a
big giveaway contest is planed as well. So join the message board! <b>Tony Martin</b> is still a member of the <i>Whole Lotta Metal</i> show and will do some additional dates this year in England.
In Italy a new Black Sabbath tribute band called <a href="http://www.warningtribute.com/">The Warning</a> established. <br>
A personal thing: a buddy of mine and known collector sells most of his Black Sabbath record collection - the up-to-date for sale list can be found <a href="Sale_list_MB_091104.pdf">HERE</a> !
If you are interested in some items please send an email tp <a href="mailto: hilmar@black-sabbath.de?subject=LP sell-out">hilmar@black-sabbath.de</a> !
<p align=right>
<a href="#main">Back to top of page.</a>
<HR>
<A NAME="UsefulTextfiles">
<align=left>
Various useful files:
<p>
<CENTER><Address>
<CENTER><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.de/lp_list.html"> <b>Black Sabbath LP-Discography Version 1.0</b> </a><p></CENTER>
<a href="bootleg2.sab"> Bootleg Album Discography Version 2.28</a>
<a href="faq1_0.g"> Black Sabbath FAQ Version 1.0</a>
<a href="sabdisco.gr2"> Black Sabbath Discography 5.0</a>
<p>
<a href="cover_ve.rsi"> Black Sabbath Cover Versions </a><p>
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<a href="services.htm"> Services/For Sale List </a><p>
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<HR>
<A NAME="archives">
<H2><center> The Black Sabbath Bootleg Archive </center></H2>
<CENTER><a href="bootlegs/boots.html"><big>Click here to get lots of info on exciting Black Sabbath bootlegs!</big></a></CENTER>
<br><br>
<H2><center> The Black Sabbath Lyrics Archive </center></H2>
<CENTER><a href="lyrics/lyrics.htm"><big>Click here to get to the lyric archive!</big></a></CENTER>
<br><br>
<A NAME="Back">
<CENTER><h2>Back Issues of the Black Sabbath Mailing List</h2>
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Issues 301 to 400</OPTION>
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Issues 601 to 686</OPTION>
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Issues 701 to 800</OPTION>
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Issues 801 to 900</OPTION>
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Issues 901 to 999</OPTION>
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Issues 1000 to 1100</OPTION>
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Issues 1101 to 1191</OPTION>
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Please mark: issues 687 to 699 have never been released!<br><br>
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<b>click here</b></a>.
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<a href="links.htm">
<CENTER><big> The Black Sabbath Link Page </big></CENTER>
</a>
<A HREF="http://www.iommi.com/">
<CENTER><big> Tony Iommi's page - exciting!!! </big></CENTER>
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.ronniejamesdio.com/">
<CENTER><big> Official Ronnie James Dio Website </big></CENTER>
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.december-it.co.uk/sabbath/login.html">
<CENTER><big> Black Sabbath Appreciation Group (Pete Scott) http://www.december-it.co.uk/sabbath/login.html </big></CENTER>
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.black-sabbath.com/">
<CENTER><big> Black Sabbath Home Page (Joe Siegler) http://www.black-sabbath.com/ </big></CENTER>
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.dio.net/">
<CENTER><big> Tapio Keihänen's Dio Pages http://www.dio.net/ </big></CENTER>
</A>
<A HREF="http://users3.ev1.net/~sleeping96/sv93.htm">
<CENTER><big>Black Sabbath FAQ Version 2.2</big></CENTER>
</A>
<a href="news:alt.music.black-sabbath">
<CENTER><big> Click here to read the Black Sabbath newsgroup </big></CENTER>
</a>
<a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/signup.html">
<CENTER><big> Click here to to join the Black Sabbath Mailing List (link to Joe Siegler's page) </big></CENTER>
</a><p>
<a href="http://www.blacksabbath.com/"
onMouseOver = "window.status = 'Click here for more info on Sabbath from Sony Records.'; return true;"
onMouseOut = "window.status = window.location; return true;">
<CENTER><img src="reunion468.gif" width=468 height=60 border=0 ALT="Click here for more info on Sabbath from Sony Records."></CENTER></a><p>
<CENTER><a href="http://www.sabbatum.com"><img src="sabbatum1.gif" border="0"></a></CENTER>
<p align=right>
<a href="#main">Back to top of page.</a>
<hr>
People who are interested in more fanzines should have a look at Pete Scott's homepage
for "Southern Cross" or write at the following address for information concerning
"Sabbath Stone" (ex-Thanks God It's Sabbath), the French fanzine in French language
by Thierry Bauwens:
<big> Thierry Bauwens, 5, rue Fernel, 80500 Montdidier, - Somme -, FRANCE </big><br>
Since June 1994 there exists a fourth Black Sabbath fanzine called "Las Cruces de Sabbath"
done by an unofficial fan club in Argentinia. You can get more info at: <big>Las Cruces De Sabbath,
Casilla De Correo 1607, (1000) Correo Central, Buenos Aires, Argentina</big>. - For complete fanzine
listing <a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/fanzines.html">click here</a>.
<HR>
<CENTER>Special thanks to Ralph Baker, Peter Scott, Hilmar Ransch, Detlef Lichtenstein, Andreas
Schwertner, PC-Pool (Mathematics) of Technical University Berlin, Claudia Redetzky, Tapio Keihänen, Michael
Sullivan, Joe Siegler, Torsten Schmollinger, Thierry Bauwens, Sam Naugler, Renata Tymichova and Holger Hoffmann for support, help and inspiration. </CENTER>
<p>
<CENTER>And of course thanks to all the Sabbath fans out there in the world!</CENTER>
<CENTER>Always remember: Sabbath Rules!!!</CENTER>
<p>
<CENTER><a href="fanmasters.jpg"> Tony Iommi, Alexander Rack (German Fan Club), Pete Scott (UK Fan Club) - Birmingham, Sep 1997 </a></CENTER>
<p>
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<a href="http://Mars.GuestWorld.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=bsfcd">View Fan Club's Guestbook</a>
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Black Sabbath Fan Club Deutschland
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[Latest News (German)!](#Newsd)
[Useful Textfiles](#UsefulTextfiles)
[Back Issues Black Sabbath Mailing List](#Back)
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Letzte Neuigkeiten
[Bitte hier für alte Black Sabbath News klicken!](altnews.htm)
Ich habe für die Seite ein Banner erstellt, daß alle Besitzer einer eigenen Black
Sabbath Page zum Linken verwenden können:
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[www.black-sabbath.de](http://www.black-sabbath.de/graphikm/bannern.html)
Wie einige von Euch sicher mitbekommen haben, waren die letzten Wochen Teile von **www.black-sabbath.de**
offline. Grund war ein Brief der IFPI (www.ifpi.de, www.ifpi.org) an einen meiner Provider. Obwohl laut
Urheberrecht man sieben Takte von jedem Song frei verwenden kann, scheinen der Plattenindustrie meine 10-Sekunden-MP3-Tracks ein Dorn im Auge zu sein. Solange ich die Rechtslage nicht eindeutig geklärt habe,
sind die Tracks erstmal alle offline.
Tourdaten und Bands für daß *Ozzfest 2004* stehen fest - Details unter [knac.com](http://knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=2823) . **[Tony
Martin](http://www.tonymartin.net/)** wird im Mai 2004 im Rahmen von "Whole Lotta Metal" durch England touren.
Auf [**billward.com**](http://www.billward.com) kann man sich den neuen Song "The Dark Half Hour" vom bald erscheinenden Album *Beyond Aston* als MP3 herunterladen - sehr
empfehlenswert! Die neue **Dio**-DVD von der *Sacred Hear*-Tour wird am 23. März über Rhino Home Video veröffentlicht. Letztere haben in Vorbereitung der Veröffentlichung
der **Black Sabbath** *Black Box* eine Single "Paranoid / Iron Man" rausgebracht - Photo siehe [hier](http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/8f/8f/e9_1_b.JPG). Jeff Pilson wird
wie bereits angekündigt im April mit **Dio** ein neues Album aufnehmen, aber nicht mit auf Tour gehen. Bekannte Tourdaten **Dio 2004** sind: 4.8. Karlsruhe, 5.8. Nürnberg - Hirsch.
Es war mal wieder ein paar Monate ruhig auf **www.black-sabbath.de** - wie immer, wenn ich keine Zeit habe, liegt auch die Seite brach. Die meisten Neuigkeiten der letzte Zeit sind schon
überall verkündet worden. **Tony Iommi**'s "*Dep Sessions*" sollten mittlerweile sowohl in Europa als auch in Amerika erhätlich sein. Ich habe [hier](http://www.black-sabbath.de/iommi_promo_sheet.jpg) einen Scan des zugehörigen Promosheets hinterlegt. **Geezer Butler** arbeitet mit Sänger Clarc Brown an
seinem dritten Soloalbum "Ohmwork", Veröffentlichung irgendwann 2005. Auf [twindragonsmusic.com](http://www.twindragonsmusic.com/) findet man auch ein paar
aktuelle Europa-Tourdaten von **Tony Martin**.
Auf dem [Tony Iommi Messageboard](http://www.iommimessageboard.co.uk/) wird der Meister demnächst ein paar Fragen persönlich beantworten, ferner ist eine
große Verlosung geplant. Vorbeischauen lohnt sich also! **Tony Martin** ist weiterhin Teil von *Whole Lotta Metal* und wird damit dieses Jahr noch ein paar Auftritte in
England absolvieren. In Italien gibt es eine neue Tribute-Band [The Warning](http://www.warningtribute.com/).
In eigener Sache: ein Sammler aus meinem Bekanntenkreis löst gerade seine LP-Sammlung auf - die aktuelle Verkaufsliste kann man [HIER](Sale_list_MB_091104.pdf)
finden! Bei interesse email an [hilmar@black-sabbath.de](mailto: hilmar@black-sabbath.de?subject=LP sell-out) !
[Zurück zum Ausgangspunkt.](#main)
---
Latest News!
[Please click here for old Black Sabbath News!](oldnews.htm)
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[www.black-sabbath.de](http://www.black-sabbath.de/graphikm/bannern.html)
As some of you might have noticed, various parts of **www.black-sabbath.de** have been offline during the last couple of weeks. The reason was a letter send by a group called IFPI (www.ifpi.org) towards my provider. Even it
is allowed - due to the at least German copyright law - to use seven times of each song for free, the record industry seems to have certain problems with the mp3-tracks at the bootleg archive. As long as I do not know what exactly is the deal with illegal or not, I will keep the mp3-stuff offline.
The tourdates and bands for this years *Ozzfest 2004* have been announced - see [knac.com](http://knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=2823) . **[Tony
Martin](http://www.tonymartin.net/)** will go on tour in may 2004 through England as part of "Whole Lotta Metal".
At [**billward.com**](http://www.billward.com) the brand new track "The Dark Half Hour" from the upcoming album *Beyond Aston* can be downloaded as an MP3 file - highly
recommended! The new **Dio**-DVD from the *Sacred Heart* tour is going to be released at march, 23th through Rhino Home Video. The lader also released in prepartion of the soon coming **Black Sabbath** *Black Box* a new single "Paranoid / Iron Man" - photo scan can be found [here](http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/8f/8f/e9_1_b.JPG). As announced Jeff Pilson
will enter together with **Dio** the studio in april in order to record the new album with the band, but he will not be available for the tour. Known tourdates so far **Dio 2004**: 4th aug Karlsruhe (Germany), 5th aug Nurnberg - Hirsch (Germany).
Again there have been some months of silence at **www.black-sabbath.de** - as usual when I am running out of time then the activities on the website are doing down as well.
Most of the latest news from the past months already have been spread around quite heavily. **Tony Iommi**'s "*Dep Sessions*" should be released and
available now everywhere in Europe as well as America. I put online [here](http://www.black-sabbath.de/iommi_promo_sheet.jpg) a scan of the corresponding promo sheet.
**Geezer Butler** is working now together with singer Clarc Brown on his third solo album, probably called "Ohmwork" and scheduled for release somewhere in 2005.
Please see [twindragonsmusic.com](http://www.twindragonsmusic.com/) for a couple of up-to-date European tour dates for **Tony Martin**.
At the [Tony Iommi Messageboard](http://www.iommimessageboard.co.uk/) the riff-master itself is going to answer a couple of questions within the next few weeks. Additionally a
big giveaway contest is planed as well. So join the message board! **Tony Martin** is still a member of the *Whole Lotta Metal* show and will do some additional dates this year in England.
In Italy a new Black Sabbath tribute band called [The Warning](http://www.warningtribute.com/) established.
A personal thing: a buddy of mine and known collector sells most of his Black Sabbath record collection - the up-to-date for sale list can be found [HERE](Sale_list_MB_091104.pdf) !
If you are interested in some items please send an email tp [hilmar@black-sabbath.de](mailto: hilmar@black-sabbath.de?subject=LP sell-out) !
[Back to top of page.](#main)
---
Various useful files:
[**Black Sabbath LP-Discography Version 1.0**](http://www.black-sabbath.de/lp_list.html)
[Bootleg Album Discography Version 2.28](bootleg2.sab)
[Black Sabbath FAQ Version 1.0](faq1_0.g)
[Black Sabbath Discography 5.0](sabdisco.gr2)
[Black Sabbath Cover Versions](cover_ve.rsi)
[Services/For Sale List](services.htm)
[Help! Who knows this girl?](girl.htm)
[Back to top of page.](#main)
---
The Black Sabbath Bootleg Archive
[Click here to get lots of info on exciting Black Sabbath bootlegs!](bootlegs/boots.html)
The Black Sabbath Lyrics Archive
[Click here to get to the lyric archive!](lyrics/lyrics.htm)
Back Issues of the Black Sabbath Mailing List
Select Back Issues Package ...
Issues 001 to 100
Issues 101 to 200
Issues 201 to 300
Issues 301 to 400
Issues 401 to 500
Issues 501 to 600
Issues 601 to 686
Issues 701 to 800
Issues 801 to 900
Issues 901 to 999
Issues 1000 to 1100
Issues 1101 to 1191
Index for issues 1 to 426
Please mark: issues 687 to 699 have never been released!
The text files are packed with WinZip. If you do not have WinZip, [**click here**](http://www.winzip.com).
[Back to top of page.](#main)
---
Other great Black Sabbath related pages which you should visit:
[More Official News, AudioClips, Links from SonicNet](javascript:doIt())
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[The Black Sabbath Link Page](links.htm)
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[Official Ronnie James Dio Website](http://www.ronniejamesdio.com/)
[Black Sabbath Appreciation Group (Pete Scott) http://www.december-it.co.uk/sabbath/login.html](http://www.december-it.co.uk/sabbath/login.html)
[Black Sabbath Home Page (Joe Siegler) http://www.black-sabbath.com/](http://www.black-sabbath.com/)
[Tapio Keihänen's Dio Pages http://www.dio.net/](http://www.dio.net/)
[Black Sabbath FAQ Version 2.2](http://users3.ev1.net/~sleeping96/sv93.htm)
[Click here to read the Black Sabbath newsgroup](news:alt.music.black-sabbath)
[Click here to to join the Black Sabbath Mailing List (link to Joe Siegler's page)](http://www.black-sabbath.com/signup.html)
[Click here for more info on Sabbath from Sony Records.](http://www.blacksabbath.com/)
[Back to top of page.](#main)
---
People who are interested in more fanzines should have a look at Pete Scott's homepage
for "Southern Cross" or write at the following address for information concerning
"Sabbath Stone" (ex-Thanks God It's Sabbath), the French fanzine in French language
by Thierry Bauwens:
Thierry Bauwens, 5, rue Fernel, 80500 Montdidier, - Somme -, FRANCE
Since June 1994 there exists a fourth Black Sabbath fanzine called "Las Cruces de Sabbath"
done by an unofficial fan club in Argentinia. You can get more info at: Las Cruces De Sabbath,
Casilla De Correo 1607, (1000) Correo Central, Buenos Aires, Argentina. - For complete fanzine
listing [click here](http://www.black-sabbath.com/fanzines.html).
---
Special thanks to Ralph Baker, Peter Scott, Hilmar Ransch, Detlef Lichtenstein, Andreas
Schwertner, PC-Pool (Mathematics) of Technical University Berlin, Claudia Redetzky, Tapio Keihänen, Michael
Sullivan, Joe Siegler, Torsten Schmollinger, Thierry Bauwens, Sam Naugler, Renata Tymichova and Holger Hoffmann for support, help and inspiration.
And of course thanks to all the Sabbath fans out there in the world!
Always remember: Sabbath Rules!!!
[Tony Iommi, Alexander Rack (German Fan Club), Pete Scott (UK Fan Club) - Birmingham, Sep 1997](fanmasters.jpg)
[Sign Fan Club's Guestbook](http://Mars.GuestWorld.com/wgb/wgbsign.dbm?owner=bsfcd)
[Guestbook by GuestWorld](http://www.GuestWorld.com/)
[View Fan Club's Guestbook](http://Mars.GuestWorld.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=bsfcd)
| | |
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Last Update: sunday, 14th november 2004 |
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and happy new year 2024! <br>
<img src="Merry.jpg" width="60" height="40" align="absmiddle"><img src="xmasbaubles.jpg" width="121" height="40" align="absmiddle"><img src="xmas3.gif" width="259" height="20" align="absmiddle"></font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#009900"><img src="xmasbaubles.jpg" width="121" height="40" align="absmiddle"></font></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#009900"><img src="xmas3.gif" width="259" height="20" align="absmiddle"><img src="xmasbaubles.jpg" width="121" height="40" align="absmiddle"><img width="60" height="40" align="absmiddle" src="Christmas.jpg"></font></b></font></div>
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<td width="19%"><img src="clint4NEW3.gif" width="248" height="159" alt="Clint Hough - Sixties City"></td>
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face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033" size="3"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#333333" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033"><font color="#333333"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#000000"><i><font size="4" color="#CC3399" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Come
on in! It's great to see you here at Sixties City and I do hope you
enjoy your visit!</font></i><font size="1"> <font color="#3399FF">
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font color="#3399FF" size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Last
updated Thursday 21st December 2023</b></font><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#000066"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="-1"
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<br>
</font></b></font> <font color="#333333">Thanks for visiting! If you've
been here before, please refresh the page, and thanks to all of you
who have mailed me with questions, comments, information and your
own personal memories. I've been adding to the content for over 30
years and am currently revisiting links and information on the existing
pages, updating and progressing a few other things I've been working
on. <br>
Of course, I'll keep adding and updating content on a regular basis
and there will occasionally be new articles and contributions, in
a kind of 'magazine' format, generously provided by Bill Harry and
others. Also, you won't find it filled with adverts as it is a non-profit
hobby, not a business, although there may be the odd one or two adverts
to help cover maintenance costs.<br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">As
always, if you find any incorrect details (hopefully few) or can provide
new or further information, I'd love to hear from you! </font><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#000066"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
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face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
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face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033" size="3"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#333333" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#000066"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033" size="3"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#333333" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033"><font color="#333333"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#000000"><font color="#333333">Do
please note that any pages at the old <i>'.com</i>' location are now
completely unrelated to this site and I cannot hold any responsibility
for any content or links used there. The pages, for the most part,
are best viewed at 2560 x 1440 resolution.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333"><br>
<font color="#0000FF"><a href="#help"> Also, please have a look at
these help requests and queries as I still need information on various
Sixties subjects - please get in touch if you can help?</a></font></font><font color="#333333">
Best regards always, </font> </font><font color="#CC0033"><img src="csig.gif" width="49" height="22" align="texttop" alt="Clint Hough"></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></td>
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<td width="9%" valign="middle">
<div align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b><font color="#FF0000"><a href="menupage.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image67','','xmasmenu2.gif',1)"><img name="Image67" border="0" src="xmasmenu1.gif" width="113" height="113"></a></font></b></font></div>
</td>
<td width="23%" valign="middle"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#000066"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033" size="3"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#333333" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000066" size="1"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#003300" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font color="#000066"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="-1"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#006699"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033" size="3"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#333333" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#333333"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#CC0033"><font color="#333333"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#CCFFFF"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#003300"><font color="#003300"><font color="#000066"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#006699"><font color="#000066"><font color="#000000"><font color="#333333">There
are <b>well over</b> <b>500 pages</b> of great <br>
60s-related information, sounds and images, including many unique
articles and graphics, so you should be able to find something of
interest to you, whether you are researching the decade or simply
reviving old memories. There are some links to areas of general interest
further down this page, but you can also<br>
<i><font color="#CC0000">click the image for a more definitive menu.</font></i></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></td>
<td width="1%"> </td>
<td width="26%"><a href="Mbeat/mbh60s.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image58','','bhsNEWB.gif',1)"><img name="Image58" border="0" src="bhsNEW.gif" width="342" height="141" alt="Sixties Bill Harry"></a></td>
<td width="41%"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="#333333"><b><font color="#990033">Presented
here, in his own words</font></b><font color="#990033">,</font> is
the definitive story of one of the Sixties' seminal music papers -
a fascinating and unique personal insight into the early days of the
'British Beat Boom'. Bill Harry was the original founder of the Liverpool
music paper that chronicled the groups and venues responsible for
the 'Mersey Sound', the publication that was to give its name to the
Sixties phenomenon that has since become almost universally known
as Merseybeat.<br>
<font color="#990033"><br>
<b><i>These pages feature</i></b></font> <i><b><font color="#990000">over
230 articles</font></b></i> from the personal pen of Bill Harry, providing
his unique and informative view on many and varied aspects of Sixties
events, personalities, music and culture, and personal interviews
with the stars. <font color="#990033"><i>New articles added September
2023</i></font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="20%"><a href="Culture/Soho1.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image561','','newind7B.gif',1)"><img name="Image561" border="0" src="newind7.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Carnaby Street and King's Road"></a></td>
<td width="80%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333"><b><font color="#990033">Carnaby
Street, Soho and the Kings Road - history, information and Sixties
location maps unique to this site</font><br>
New enlarged maps and updated information, with dozens of new images.</b>
Did you ever visit, or live in or near, Soho or Chelsea in the Sixties?
Or maybe you just wonder what it was like back then? Revisit and refresh
some old memories - these graphical maps of Sixties Carnaby Street
and the Kings Road will take you back in time. There are hundreds
of images of people and locations, plus information about the boutiques,
cafes, clubs and other establishments with unique maps showing you
where they were. There is also a bit of history thrown in about the
Soho and Chelsea areas for good measure - it's amazing what you don't
know! The Kings Road and Carnaby Street maps, which have taken many
years to research, have now been enlarged for easier viewing and are
fairly frequently updated with dozens of new locations and images
added, often with information from you! <font color="#CC0000"> </font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td width="37%" valign="top" height="102"><a href="Events/SixtiesEvents.htm"><img src="calendarNEW.jpg" width="459" height="50" alt="Sixties Events, Sport and Trivia" border="0"></a><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Also: The Spurs
Double, The 1966 World Cup and EVERY match played at Wembley</font><br>
<a href="Events/SixtiesEvents.htm"><img src="cups.jpg" width="459" height="60" alt="Sixties City" border="0"></a>
</td>
<td width="11%" height="102"><b><a href="PopTV/PopTV.shtm"><img name="Image41" border="0" src="fluff2.jpg" width="138" height="99" alt="Alan 'Fluff' Freeman"></a></b></td>
<td width="27%" valign="top" height="102"><a href="charts/My%20Top%20300.htm">
</a><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b><font color="#990033">Sixties
City Jukebox</font></b><br>
<font color="#333333">My 'Top 300' records of the British record charts
of the 1960s - and a few 'bonus' tracks that didn't appear in the
UK pop charts for whatever reason.<br>
Records here reflect my own personal choice, either through being
Sixties icons, innovative, quirky,</font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#333333">
sounds I love or just records that hold a special memory for me and
maybe you too. Currently updating the links.</font></font></td>
<td width="25%" valign="top" height="102">
<div align="right"><a href="charts/My%20Top%20300.htm"><img src="juke.gif" width="321" height="127" border="0" alt="Sixties City"></a></div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="middle">
<td bgcolor="#000000" width="9%" valign="top" height="148">
<div align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deaths_by_year" target="_blank"><img src="ripNEW.gif" width="77" height="44" border="0" alt="Obituaries"></a><br>
</font><font color="#FFFFFF"><font face="Arial" size="2">Just some
of<br>
the interesting, notable or famous 60s / 70s</font></font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="2">
people<br>
who have<br>
recently left us<br>
<br>
<font size="1"><i> (Wikipedia list<br>
of recent deaths) </i></font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
</td>
<td width="1%" bgcolor="#000000" height="148">kk</td>
<td width="59%" bgcolor="#000000" height="148" valign="middle">
<div align="center"><img src="1ob.gif" width="188" height="188" alt="Denny Laine" align="absmiddle"> <a href="Wembley/worldcup66.htm"><img src="2ob.gif" width="188" height="188" alt="Ryan O'Neal" align="absmiddle" border="0"></a> <a href="Space/SpaceRace.shtm"><img src="3ob.gif" width="188" height="188" alt="Shirley Anne Field" align="absmiddle" border="0"></a> <img src="4ob.gif" width="188" height="188" alt="Brigit Forsyth" border="0" align="absmiddle"></div>
</td>
<td width="1%" height="148"><font color="#FFFFFF">kk</font></td>
<td width="30%" height="148"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><font color="#000066" size="3"><b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color="#000000" size="4"><i><img src="rose.gif" width="78" height="30" align="absmiddle"> In
memory of . . .</i></font></b></font><br>
<font color="#666666"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troggs" target="_blank">Pete
Lucas</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Anne_Field" target="_blank">Shirley
Anne Field</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dakotas_(band)" target="_blank">Mike
Maxfield</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_O%27Neal" target="_blank">Ryan
O'Neal</a>, <br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Laine" target="_blank">Denny
Laine</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigit_Forsyth" target="_blank">Brigit
Forsyth</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_and_Marty_Krofft" target="_blank">Marty
Krofft</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Maguire" target="_blank">Les
Maguire</a>, </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><font color="#666666"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Ackland" target="_blank">Joss
Ackland</a>,</font></font><font color="#666666"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Venables" target="_blank"><br>
Terry Venables</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Ponomaryova" target="_blank">Valentina
Ponomaryova</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Borman" target="_blank">Frank
Borman</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Hill_(producer)" target="_blank">Trevor
Hill</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Roundtree" target="_blank"><br>
Richard Roundtree</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishan_Singh_Bedi" target="_blank">Bishan
Singh Bedi</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Charlton" target="_blank">Sir
Bobby Charlton</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Laurie" target="_blank"><br>
Piper Laurie</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Isley" target="_blank">Rudolph
Isley</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Goddard" target="_blank">Mark
Goddard</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cryin%27_Shames" target="_blank">Ritchie
Routledge</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lee_(footballer)" target="_blank"><br>
Francis Lee</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joystrings" target="_blank">Joy
Webb</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Arrowsmith" target="_blank">Pat
Arrowsmith</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gambon" target="_blank">Michael
Gambon</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bonallack" target="_blank"><br>
Michael Bonallack</a>, </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><font color="#666666"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perrie_Mans" target="_blank">Perrie
Mans</a>, </font></font><font color="#666666"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McCallum" target="_blank">David
McCallum</a>,</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><font color="#666666"> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><font color="#666666"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Boht" target="_blank">Jean
Boht</a>,</font></font></font><font color="#666666"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marvelettes" target="_blank">
<br>
Katherine Anderson</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollis_Watkins" target="_blank">Hollis
Watkins</a>,</font><font color="#666666"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Whittaker" target="_blank">Roger
Whittaker</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Yarwood" target="_blank">Mike
Yarwood</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hide" target="_blank"><br>
Edward Hide</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bohan" target="_blank">Marc
Bohan</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Chance" target="_blank">Larry
Chance</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayle_Hunnicutt" target="_blank">Gayle
Hunnicutt</a>, <br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Feldman">Bob Feldman</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_&_Paula" target="_blank">Ray
Hildebrand</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Moss" target="_blank">Jerry
Moss</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Parkinson" target="_blank">Sir
Michael Parkinson</a></font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="51%" height="54"><a href="CultTV/Westerns/Westerns.shtm"><img src="westerns.jpg" width="684" height="80" border="0" alt="TV Westerns - Sixties City"></a></td>
<td width="49%" height="54"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b><font color="#990033">New
- Television Westerns</font></b></font><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">'Western' shows
were already a pre-television radio phenomenon in the 40s and 50s,
but really exploded onto television during the 50s and early to mid
60s. Listed here, with soundtracks and images for interest, and in
no particular order (some of which you may not have seen), are many
of them. They include all my favourites that bring back happy memories
of 60s television viewing, both as 'children's' shows and adult evening
drama or comedy.</font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top" align="center">
<td width="20$">
<div align="left"><a href="Culture/dance.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image591','','newind18B.gif',1)"><img name="Image591" border="0" src="newind18.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Sixties Dance Crazes"></a><br>
<br>
</div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="startrek/sttosmain.shtm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image69','','newind1C.gif',1)"><img name="Image69" border="0" src="newind1.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="60trivia/60charts.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image451','','newind14B.gif',1)"><img name="Image451" border="0" src="newind14.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Sixties Music Charts"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Fashion/Fashion.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image70','','newind2C.gif',1)"><img name="Image70" border="0" src="newind2.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Transport/Transport.shtm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image471','','newind3B.gif',1)"><img name="Image471" border="0" src="newind3.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Sixties Transport and Vehicles"></a></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top" align="center">
<td width="20$">
<div align="left"> <a href="Television/60STelly.shtm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image71','','newind9C.gif',1)"><img name="Image71" border="0" src="newind9.gif" width="250" height="100"><br>
<br>
</a> </div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Lifestyle/Stamps.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image481','','newind12B.gif',1)"><img name="Image481" border="0" src="newind12.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="British Stamps - Sixties"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Radio/PirateRadio.shtm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image72','','newind4C.gif',1)"><img name="Image72" border="0" src="newind4.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Media/media5.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image501','','newind5B.gif',1)"><img name="Image501" border="0" src="newind5.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Sixties Retail"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Culture/culture.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image73','','newind11C.gif',1)"><img name="Image73" border="0" src="newind11.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top" align="center">
<td width="20$">
<div align="left"><a href="Popmovies/Popmovies.shtm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image521','','newind10B.gif',1)"><img name="Image521" border="0" src="newind10.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Pop Films Sixties"></a><br>
<br>
</div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Media/Media.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image74','','newind6C.gif',1)"><img name="Image74" border="0" src="newind6.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Lifestyle/Leisure.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image541','','newind16B.gif',1)"><img name="Image541" border="0" src="newind16.gif" width="250" height="100" alt="Sixties Toys and Household"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="memories.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image75','','newind15C.gif',1)"><img name="Image75" border="0" src="newind15.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td width="20%">
<div align="left"><a href="Culture/Soho4.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image59','','newind19b.gif',1)"><img name="Image59" border="0" src="newind19.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="20$" height="99" align="center">
<div align="left"><a href="WhatsOn/musicevents.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image76','','newind8C.gif',1)"><img name="Image76" border="0" src="newind8.gif" width="250" height="100"><br>
<br>
</a> </div>
</td>
<td width="20%" height="99" align="center">
<div align="left"><a href="Music/Beatlegirl/BeatleGirl.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image60','','newind20b.gif',1)"><img name="Image60" border="0" src="newind20.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td height="99">
<div align="left"><a href="60trivia/60trivia.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image77','','newind21C.gif',1)"><img name="Image77" border="0" src="newind21.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td height="99">
<div align="left"><a href="NewBooks.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image63','','newind22b.gif',1)"><img name="Image63" border="0" src="newind22.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
<td height="99">
<div align="left"><a href="internetradio.htm" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image78','','newind13C.gif',1)"><img name="Image78" border="0" src="newind13.gif" width="250" height="100"></a></div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="10%">
<div align="left"><a href="NewBooks.htm"><img src="book%20revolution.jpg" width="117" height="170" alt="Sixties City" border="0"></a><br>
<br>
</div>
</td>
<td width="89%">
<p align="left"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#990033"><b>New
Book Release</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
(21st September 2023)<br>
</font></font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">
<b>A Very British Revolution<br>
Amirreza Tayebi</b><br>
Revolutionary Swinging London Era The Swinging Sixties in London
was a vibrant and transformative cultural era that left an indelible
mark on film, music, fashion, and art. This revolutionary period,
spanning roughly from the mid-1960s to early 1970s, was characterized
by an explosion of creativity, social change, and youth-driven rebellion.
In film, iconic works like "A Hard Day's Night" captured the spirit
of the era with the rise of the Beatles and their influence on pop
culture. The films of directors like Richard Lester showcased the
energetic and irreverent attitudes of the youth. Music played a
pivotal role as well, with the British Invasion bands like the Rolling
Stones and The Who becoming global sensations. Fashion became a
powerful vehicle for self-expression, as designers like Mary Quant
introduced bold, mod-inspired clothing that defied tradition. The
miniskirt became a symbol of female empowerment, while men embraced
tailored suits with flamboyant twists. This spirit of innovation
extended to art too, with the emergence of pop art led by figures
like David Hockney and Peter Blake, who celebrated consumer culture
and mass media through their work. 'A Very British Revolution',
explores in essence the Swinging Sixties in London was a kaleidoscopic
burst of color, sound, and rebellion. It ushered in a new era of
youth culture that continues to inspire and influence artistic expression
to this day.</font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="10%" height="136"><a href="NewBooks.htm"><img src="book%20tremeloes.jpg" width="113" height="170" alt="Sixties City" border="0"></a></td>
<td width="89%" height="136">
<div align="center"></div>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#990033"><b>New
Book Release</b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
(In Kindle Format on 15th December 2023)<br>
</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#9900CC"><b><font color="#006666">
<font color="#333333">The Tremeloes - Even The Bad Times Are Good!</font></font></b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333"><br>
Every Song From Every Session<br>
Peter Checksfield <br>
</font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">
Famously signed to Decca instead of The Beatles, Brian Poole and
The Tremeloes spent four years topping the charts, touring the world,
and appearing in movies.<br>
Incredibly, when they split from their former lead vocalist, The
Tremeloes went on to even greater success, with the 4 members -
Alan, Dave, Rick & Chip - becoming one of those few bands <br>
(The Beatles & The Monkees among them) to be recognisable just by
their first names.<br>
<br>
With exclusive interviews with band members and dozens of previously
unseen photos, acclaimed music historian Peter Checksfield tells
The Tremeloes' story - via their many record releases - in this
remarkable book.</font></font></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b><font size="4"><a name="help"></a></font></b></font></b></font><br>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr bgcolor="#990033">
<td width="44%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b></b></font><font size="4"> <font size="5">Can
you help with any of these enquiries?</font></font></b></font></td>
<td width="56%"><font color="#FFFFFF"></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="16%" height="276" rowspan="2">
<div align="center"><img src="help.jpg" width="150" height="150"><br>
<img src="infowanted.gif" width="190" height="102" alt="Sixties City" align="absmiddle"></div>
</td>
<td width="20%" height="190">
<div align="center"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><a href="chjmi2.gif" target="_blank">
<img src="chjmi.gif" width="135" height="102" border="0" alt="Colney Heath Junior School staff mid 60s"><br>
</a><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">I'm
still looking for photos of the<br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">old </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#990033"></font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#990033">
Colney Heath JMI School<br>
</font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">before
its demolition? I attended <br>
there approx 1960 - 1967. <br>
Mid-60s staff picture above</font> </font></font></div>
</td>
<td width="21%" height="190"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333"><b><font color="#990033">Kings
Road & Carnaby Street</font></b><br>
Do you have any information on the occupants<br>
of the various premises in these locations <br>
during the Sixties? <br>
Or do you have any reminiscences of the places and times?<br>
<br>
Please check out the <a href="Culture/KingsRoad2.htm">street maps</a>
and, if <br>
you can help, or have images, do <a href="mail.shtm" target="_blank">mail
me</a></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="190"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b><font color="#990033">Johnny
Byrne - Poet and Writer</font></b><br>
<font color="#333333">Andy Soloman asks: My father was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Byrne_(writer)" target="_blank">Johnny
Byrne</a>, he of the poetry set, Groupie and lots of other stuff.
Sadly he died in 2008. I am trying to piece together his Liverpool
and subsequent 1960s poetry, writing and rocknroll years leading
up to the publication of Groupie and soon after. I know he lived in
Gambier Terrace below John Lennon, and my mother was certainly friends
with The Beatles and The Hurricanes, as well as the poets and artists.
Other elements that Im keen to find out more about would be Poison
Bellows which he performed as with Spike Hawkins, and his involvement
with The Kinks and The Who. Im keen to meet people who would have
known him at that time. I</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">f
you can help, <a href="mail.shtm" target="_blank">mail me</a></font></font></td>
<td width="10%" height="276" rowspan="2">
<div align="right"><img src="Byrne.jpg" width="130" height="220" alt="Johnny Byrne"></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td colspan="3" height="100"> <font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#660099"><font color="#FF0066"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#660099"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#000000"><font color="#3399CC"><font color="#0033CC"><font color="#3399CC" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><font size="1" color="#000066"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" color="#000066"><b><font color="#990033" size="2">Orphan
Pages on Other Websites</font></b><font size="2"><br>
<font color="#333333"> It saddens me that many interesting sites and
web pages I have come across with unique information and images come
and go with such frequency, disappearing into the sunset without trace.
Many of these are put up on .edu sites by<br>
students and are apparently 'wiped' when the student leaves.</font></font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">
If you have such a site / page, or are intending to discontinue your
pages for whatever reason, please get in touch! I am more than happy
to import such information into<br>
Sixties City so that others may continue to enjoy the content and
information and, if you like, full credit will be given to the original
constructor / owner for posterity. Thanks! </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<font color="#333333"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
<b><font color="#990033"> Does anyone have:</font></b></font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><br>
</font></font>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr valign="top">
<td width="52%"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Images
of a skiffle group called <b>Darktown</b> that played the Liverpool
Empire and other well-known venues?</font> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><br>
Information about a Sixties cafe/restaurant called '<b>The Spot</b>'
- possibly near Dovehouse Green in the Kings Road?<br>
</font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">Information
about a clothes fashion shop called <b>Susan Rogers</b> in London
W.!. ?<br>
Information about </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#333333">a
London bus that was used as a 'mobile boutique' called '<b>Birds Paradise</b>'
- Registration OLD 620?</font></font></td>
<td width="48%"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#333333">Information
about <b>Chelsea Pet Stores</b> in the Kings Road during the Sixties?
Possibly on the M&S site.<br>
Information about <b> Joseph at Salon 33</b> at 33 Kings Road, particularly
the exact opening date?<br>
Theme music for the <b>TV Westerns</b> 'Frontier Justice', 'Jefferson
Drum', 'Pony Express' or 'Wrangler'?<br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#333333">information
on <b>Park Walk Garage</b> in the Kings Road? Possibly at 418 to 424.</font></font></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br>
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<a href="#top" target="_top"><img src="Back_top.gif" width="110" height="18" border="0"></a><br>
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</b></font> <b><font color="#990000"></font></b><br>
<b><a href="PopTV/PopTV.shtm"> </a><a href="Culture/60shungary.htm"><img src="hungary.gif" width="255" height="197" alt="The Rise and Fall of the Famous Funny Fools" border="0"></a><br>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#990033">The
Rise of The Funny Fools - the true story<br>
of a real pop group formed in 1960s Hungary</font><br>
<br>
<a href="SciFilm/Scifilm.shtm"><img src="barb.jpg" width="279" height="149" border="0" alt="Barbarella"></a><br>
<br>
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</a> <img src="Ikettes.jpg" width="279" height="250" alt="The Ikettes"><br>
<br>
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Sixties City - Bringing on back the good times
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| [Sixties City](mail.shtm) | Sixties City - Bringin' on back the good times
|
Sixties City - Welcome to the Sixties!
Share **Sixties City**by email or your social media!
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|
---
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| | **Sixties
City wishes all of you a peaceful and joyous winter season and a healthy
and happy new year 2024!** | |
---
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|
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Clint Hough - Sixties City | *Come
on in! It's great to see you here at Sixties City and I do hope you
enjoy your visit!*
**Last
updated Thursday 21st December 2023** Thanks for visiting! If you've
been here before, please refresh the page, and thanks to all of you
who have mailed me with questions, comments, information and your
own personal memories. I've been adding to the content for over 30
years and am currently revisiting links and information on the existing
pages, updating and progressing a few other things I've been working
on.
Of course, I'll keep adding and updating content on a regular basis
and there will occasionally be new articles and contributions, in
a kind of 'magazine' format, generously provided by Bill Harry and
others. Also, you won't find it filled with adverts as it is a non-profit
hobby, not a business, although there may be the odd one or two adverts
to help cover maintenance costs.
As
always, if you find any incorrect details (hopefully few) or can provide
new or further information, I'd love to hear from you! Do
please note that any pages at the old *'.com*' location are now
completely unrelated to this site and I cannot hold any responsibility
for any content or links used there. The pages, for the most part,
are best viewed at 2560 x 1440 resolution.
[Also, please have a look at
these help requests and queries as I still need information on various
Sixties subjects - please get in touch if you can help?](#help)
Best regards always, Clint Hough |
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| | There
are **well over** **500 pages** of great
60s-related information, sounds and images, including many unique
articles and graphics, so you should be able to find something of
interest to you, whether you are researching the decade or simply
reviving old memories. There are some links to areas of general interest
further down this page, but you can also
*click the image for a more definitive menu.* | | [Sixties Bill Harry](Mbeat/mbh60s.htm) | **Presented
here, in his own words**, is
the definitive story of one of the Sixties' seminal music papers -
a fascinating and unique personal insight into the early days of the
'British Beat Boom'. Bill Harry was the original founder of the Liverpool
music paper that chronicled the groups and venues responsible for
the 'Mersey Sound', the publication that was to give its name to the
Sixties phenomenon that has since become almost universally known
as Merseybeat.
***These pages feature*** ***over
230 articles*** from the personal pen of Bill Harry, providing
his unique and informative view on many and varied aspects of Sixties
events, personalities, music and culture, and personal interviews
with the stars. *New articles added September
2023* |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [Carnaby Street and King's Road](Culture/Soho1.htm) | **Carnaby
Street, Soho and the Kings Road - history, information and Sixties
location maps unique to this site
New enlarged maps and updated information, with dozens of new images.**
Did you ever visit, or live in or near, Soho or Chelsea in the Sixties?
Or maybe you just wonder what it was like back then? Revisit and refresh
some old memories - these graphical maps of Sixties Carnaby Street
and the Kings Road will take you back in time. There are hundreds
of images of people and locations, plus information about the boutiques,
cafes, clubs and other establishments with unique maps showing you
where they were. There is also a bit of history thrown in about the
Soho and Chelsea areas for good measure - it's amazing what you don't
know! The Kings Road and Carnaby Street maps, which have taken many
years to research, have now been enlarged for easier viewing and are
fairly frequently updated with dozens of new locations and images
added, often with information from you! |
| | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Sixties Events, Sport and Trivia](Events/SixtiesEvents.htm)
Also: The Spurs
Double, The 1966 World Cup and EVERY match played at Wembley
[Sixties City](Events/SixtiesEvents.htm) | **[Alan 'Fluff' Freeman](PopTV/PopTV.shtm)** | **Sixties
City Jukebox**
My 'Top 300' records of the British record charts
of the 1960s - and a few 'bonus' tracks that didn't appear in the
UK pop charts for whatever reason.
Records here reflect my own personal choice, either through being
Sixties icons, innovative, quirky,
sounds I love or just records that hold a special memory for me and
maybe you too. Currently updating the links. | [Sixties City](charts/My%20Top%20300.htm) |
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Obituaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deaths_by_year)
Just some
of
the interesting, notable or famous 60s / 70s
people
who have
recently left us
*(Wikipedia list
of recent deaths)*
| kk | Denny Laine [Ryan O'Neal](Wembley/worldcup66.htm) [Shirley Anne Field](Space/SpaceRace.shtm) Brigit Forsyth | kk | ***In
memory of . . .***
[Pete
Lucas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troggs), [Shirley
Anne Field](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Anne_Field), [Mike
Maxfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dakotas_(band)), [Ryan
O'Neal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_O%27Neal),
[Denny
Laine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Laine), [Brigit
Forsyth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigit_Forsyth), [Marty
Krofft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_and_Marty_Krofft), [Les
Maguire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Maguire), [Joss
Ackland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Ackland),[Terry Venables](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Venables), [Valentina
Ponomaryova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Ponomaryova), [Frank
Borman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Borman), [Trevor
Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Hill_(producer)), [Richard Roundtree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Roundtree), [Bishan
Singh Bedi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishan_Singh_Bedi), [Sir
Bobby Charlton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Charlton), [Piper Laurie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Laurie), [Rudolph
Isley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Isley), [Mark
Goddard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Goddard), [Ritchie
Routledge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cryin%27_Shames), [Francis Lee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lee_(footballer)), [Joy
Webb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joystrings), [Pat
Arrowsmith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Arrowsmith), [Michael
Gambon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gambon), [Michael Bonallack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bonallack), [Perrie
Mans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perrie_Mans), [David
McCallum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McCallum), [Jean
Boht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Boht), [Katherine Anderson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marvelettes), [Hollis
Watkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollis_Watkins), [Roger
Whittaker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Whittaker), [Mike
Yarwood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Yarwood), [Edward Hide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hide), [Marc
Bohan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bohan), [Larry
Chance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Chance), [Gayle
Hunnicutt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayle_Hunnicutt),
[Bob Feldman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Feldman), [Ray
Hildebrand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_&_Paula), [Jerry
Moss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Moss), [Sir
Michael Parkinson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Parkinson) |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [TV Westerns - Sixties City](CultTV/Westerns/Westerns.shtm) | **New
- Television Westerns**
'Western' shows
were already a pre-television radio phenomenon in the 40s and 50s,
but really exploded onto television during the 50s and early to mid
60s. Listed here, with soundtracks and images for interest, and in
no particular order (some of which you may not have seen), are many
of them. They include all my favourites that bring back happy memories
of 60s television viewing, both as 'children's' shows and adult evening
drama or comedy. |
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Sixties Dance Crazes](Culture/dance.htm)
| | [Sixties Music Charts](60trivia/60charts.htm) | | [Sixties Transport and Vehicles](Transport/Transport.shtm) |
| | [British Stamps - Sixties](Lifestyle/Stamps.htm) | | [Sixties Retail](Media/media5.htm) | |
| [Pop Films Sixties](Popmovies/Popmovies.shtm)
| | [Sixties Toys and Household](Lifestyle/Leisure.htm) | | |
| | | | | |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| [Sixties City](NewBooks.htm)
| **New
Book Release**
(21st September 2023)
**A Very British Revolution
Amirreza Tayebi**
Revolutionary Swinging London Era The Swinging Sixties in London
was a vibrant and transformative cultural era that left an indelible
mark on film, music, fashion, and art. This revolutionary period,
spanning roughly from the mid-1960s to early 1970s, was characterized
by an explosion of creativity, social change, and youth-driven rebellion.
In film, iconic works like "A Hard Day's Night" captured the spirit
of the era with the rise of the Beatles and their influence on pop
culture. The films of directors like Richard Lester showcased the
energetic and irreverent attitudes of the youth. Music played a
pivotal role as well, with the British Invasion bands like the Rolling
Stones and The Who becoming global sensations. Fashion became a
powerful vehicle for self-expression, as designers like Mary Quant
introduced bold, mod-inspired clothing that defied tradition. The
miniskirt became a symbol of female empowerment, while men embraced
tailored suits with flamboyant twists. This spirit of innovation
extended to art too, with the emergence of pop art led by figures
like David Hockney and Peter Blake, who celebrated consumer culture
and mass media through their work. 'A Very British Revolution',
explores in essence the Swinging Sixties in London was a kaleidoscopic
burst of color, sound, and rebellion. It ushered in a new era of
youth culture that continues to inspire and influence artistic expression
to this day. |
| [Sixties City](NewBooks.htm) |
**New
Book Release**
(In Kindle Format on 15th December 2023)
****The Tremeloes - Even The Bad Times Are Good!**
Every Song From Every Session
Peter Checksfield**
Famously signed to Decca instead of The Beatles, Brian Poole and
The Tremeloes spent four years topping the charts, touring the world,
and appearing in movies.
Incredibly, when they split from their former lead vocalist, The
Tremeloes went on to even greater success, with the 4 members -
Alan, Dave, Rick & Chip - becoming one of those few bands
(The Beatles & The Monkees among them) to be recognisable just by
their first names.
With exclusive interviews with band members and dozens of previously
unseen photos, acclaimed music historian Peter Checksfield tells
The Tremeloes' story - via their many record releases - in this
remarkable book. |
| | |
| --- | --- |
| **Can
you help with any of these enquiries?** | |
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
Sixties City | [Colney Heath Junior School staff mid 60s](chjmi2.gif)I'm
still looking for photos of the
old **Colney Heath JMI School**before
its demolition? I attended
there approx 1960 - 1967.
Mid-60s staff picture above | **Kings
Road & Carnaby Street**
Do you have any information on the occupants
of the various premises in these locations
during the Sixties?
Or do you have any reminiscences of the places and times?
Please check out the [street maps](Culture/KingsRoad2.htm)
and, if
you can help, or have images, do [mail
me](mail.shtm) | **Johnny
Byrne - Poet and Writer**
Andy Soloman asks: My father was [Johnny
Byrne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Byrne_(writer)), he of the poetry set, Groupie and lots of other stuff.
Sadly he died in 2008. I am trying to piece together his Liverpool
and subsequent 1960s poetry, writing and rocknroll years leading
up to the publication of Groupie and soon after. I know he lived in
Gambier Terrace below John Lennon, and my mother was certainly friends
with The Beatles and The Hurricanes, as well as the poets and artists.
Other elements that Im keen to find out more about would be Poison
Bellows which he performed as with Spike Hawkins, and his involvement
with The Kinks and The Who. Im keen to meet people who would have
known him at that time. If
you can help, [mail me](mail.shtm) | Johnny Byrne |
| **Orphan
Pages on Other Websites**
It saddens me that many interesting sites and
web pages I have come across with unique information and images come
and go with such frequency, disappearing into the sunset without trace.
Many of these are put up on .edu sites by
students and are apparently 'wiped' when the student leaves.
If you have such a site / page, or are intending to discontinue your
pages for whatever reason, please get in touch! I am more than happy
to import such information into
Sixties City so that others may continue to enjoy the content and
information and, if you like, full credit will be given to the original
constructor / owner for posterity. Thanks! |
**Does anyone have:**
| | |
| --- | --- |
| Images
of a skiffle group called **Darktown** that played the Liverpool
Empire and other well-known venues?
Information about a Sixties cafe/restaurant called '**The Spot**'
- possibly near Dovehouse Green in the Kings Road?
Information
about a clothes fashion shop called **Susan Rogers** in London
W.!. ?
Information about a
London bus that was used as a 'mobile boutique' called '**Birds Paradise**'
- Registration OLD 620? | Information
about **Chelsea Pet Stores** in the Kings Road during the Sixties?
Possibly on the M&S site.
Information about **Joseph at Salon 33** at 33 Kings Road, particularly
the exact opening date?
Theme music for the **TV Westerns** 'Frontier Justice', 'Jefferson
Drum', 'Pony Express' or 'Wrangler'?
information
on **Park Walk Garage** in the Kings Road? Possibly at 418 to 424. |
|
**[The Rise and Fall of the Famous Funny Fools](Culture/60shungary.htm)
The
Rise of The Funny Fools - the true story
of a real pop group formed in 1960s Hungary
[Barbarella](SciFilm/Scifilm.shtm)
[Diana Rigg](startrek/sttosmain.shtm) The Ikettes
Sixties City** |
|
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Micro Machines reference guide for collectors
Current Collection count
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Last Updated October 20, 2020
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<title>KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena</title>
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<h1 align="center">Kiddofspeed - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures -<br>
Elena's Motorcyle Ride through Chernobyl</h1>
<div align="center"><img src="367img/kawaslena.jpg">
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<p>
<h1>Kidofspeed</h1>
<font size="5">my rides through chernobyl area</font>
<ul>
<li>now including a photos of new rides (spring 2004)
</ul>
<p>
<br>
<a href="http://www.kiddofspeed.com/sendlink/form2.php" target="_blank">Send this Site to a Friend</a>
<br><br>
<a href="chapter1.html">beginning</a>
of a story about town where one can ride with no stoplights, no police, no danger to hit some cage or some dog..
<br><br>
<a href="http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chernobyl-revisited">Elena revisits Chernobyl</a>
with this updated version of the site and a new addition, "Land of the Wolves"
<br><br>
<a href="http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chernobyl-land-of-the-wolves">Chernobyl - Land of the Wolves</a>
<br>
<br>
<p>Elena's new project, <a href="http://www.gulagtales.com">Gulag Tales</a> is now online.
<p>
Take a look at Elena's latest project, <a href="http://www.kiddofspeed.com/serpents-wall/intro.htm">the Serpent's Wall</a>. A fascinating look at Kiev's history of defending itself with the aid of a wall built
most likely during the early 11th century at the request of King Yaroslav(he built upon the fortification work begun under the reign of Volodymyr Svyatoslavovich in the late 10th century). It includes photos documenting the WWII era bunkers that
were built into the existing Serpent's Wall.
<br>
<br>
<p>
<font size=5><a href="http://www.theorangerevolution.com/orangerevolution.html">Ukraine's Orange Revolution</a></font><br>
Here is hastily composed photoreportage called "stolen election" it is about social unrest that followed our recent election.
<center>
<br>
<br>
Translations: <a href="http://www.kiddofspeed.com/japanese/">Japanese</a>
<br>
<br>
<iframe src="text1.htm" name="box" width=600 height=300 frameborder="0" scrolling="yes">
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KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena
# Kiddofspeed - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures -
Elena's Motorcyle Ride through Chernobyl
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# Kidofspeed
my rides through chernobyl area
* now including a photos of new rides (spring 2004)
[Send this Site to a Friend](http://www.kiddofspeed.com/sendlink/form2.php)
[beginning](chapter1.html)
of a story about town where one can ride with no stoplights, no police, no danger to hit some cage or some dog..
[Elena revisits Chernobyl](http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chernobyl-revisited)
with this updated version of the site and a new addition, "Land of the Wolves"
[Chernobyl - Land of the Wolves](http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chernobyl-land-of-the-wolves)
Elena's new project, [Gulag Tales](http://www.gulagtales.com) is now online.
Take a look at Elena's latest project, [the Serpent's Wall](http://www.kiddofspeed.com/serpents-wall/intro.htm). A fascinating look at Kiev's history of defending itself with the aid of a wall built
most likely during the early 11th century at the request of King Yaroslav(he built upon the fortification work begun under the reign of Volodymyr Svyatoslavovich in the late 10th century). It includes photos documenting the WWII era bunkers that
were built into the existing Serpent's Wall.
[Ukraine's Orange Revolution](http://www.theorangerevolution.com/orangerevolution.html)
Here is hastily composed photoreportage called "stolen election" it is about social unrest that followed our recent election.
Translations: [Japanese](http://www.kiddofspeed.com/japanese/)
[**Powered by Boot Networks**](http://www.bootnetworks.com) [Web Hosting Provider](http://www.bootnetworks.com) [Web Site Directory](http://www.interasearch.com)
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[Chapter 5](chapter5.html) |
[Chapter 6](chapter6.html) |
[Chapter 7](chapter7.html) |
[Chapter 8](chapter8.html) |
[Chapter 9](chapter9.html) |
[Chapter 10](chapter10.html) |
[Chapter 11](chapter11.html) |
[Chapter 12](chapter12.html) |
[Chapter 13](chapter13.html) |
[Chapter 14](chapter14.html) |
[Chapter 15](chapter15.html) |
[Chapter 16](chapter16.html) |
[Chapter 17](chapter17.html) |
[Chapter 18](chapter18.html) |
[Chapter 19](chapter19.html) |
[Chapter 20](chapter20.html) |
[Chapter 21](chapter21.html) |
[Chapter 22](chapter22.html) |
[Chapter 23](chapter23.html) |
[Chapter 24](chapter24.html) |
[Chapter 25](chapter25.html) |
[Chapter 26](chapter26.html) |
[Chapter 27](chapter27.html) [Promise Wedding](http://www.bootnetworks.com/promise-wedding/promise-wedding.html)
| http://kiddofspeed.com/ |
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><!-- #BeginTemplate "/Templates/site template.dwt" --><!-- DW6 -->
<head>
<!-- #BeginEditable "doctitle" -->
<title>History of Phrenology on the Web</title>
<style type="text/css">
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<!--
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<body link="#990000" alink="#990000" vlink="#CC3333" class="unnamed1">
<span class="phrensite1"></span>
<h2 align="center"><font color="#990000" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="6"><font color="#990000" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="6"><font color="#990000" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="6"><font color="#990000"><a href="images.html"><font color="#990000"><img src="images/_fowler_l.jpg" width="44" height="103" align="right" alt="Phrenological bust by LN Fowler" border="0" /></font></a></font></font><font color="#990000"><img src="/images/_fowler_r.jpg" width="46" height="102" align="left" alt="Phrenological bust by LN Fowler" border="0" /></font></font></font><span class="style1"><font color="#990000"><font color="#990000"><font color="#990000"><a href="http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk">The History of Phrenology on the Web</a></font></font></font></span></h2>
<p align="center"><strong><font color="#990000"><span class="style1">by
<a href="http://darwin-online.org.uk/people/van_wyhe.html" target="_blank">John
van Wyhe</a></span></font></strong></p>
<div align="center" class="style1">
<table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="7" width="594">
<tr>
<td width="16%" valign="top" height="29"> <div align="center"><font color="#990000"><a href="overview.htm">Overview</a></font></div></td>
<td width="17%" valign="top" height="29"> <div align="center"> <span style="COLOR: white"><a href="organs.html">O</a></span><font color="#990000"><span style="COLOR: white"><a href="organs.html">rgans</a></span></font></div></td>
<td width="14%" valign="top" height="29"> <div align="center"><font color="#990000"><a href="texts.htm">Texts</a></font></div></td>
<td width="14%" valign="top" height="29"> <div align="center"><font color="#990000"><a href="images.html">Images</a></font></div></td>
<td width="19%" valign="top" height="29"><div align="center"><font color="#990000"><span style="COLOR: white"><span style="COLOR: white"><a href="individuals.htm">Individuals</a></span></span></font></div></td>
<td width="20%" valign="top" height="29"> <div align="left"><font color="#990000"><span style="COLOR: white"><span style="COLOR: white"><a href="biblio.htm">Bibliography</a></span></span></font></div></td>
</tr>
</table>
<hr noshade="noshade" align="center" />
<!-- #BeginEditable "main body" --><dir><dir>
<p align="left"><font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">"[Before
phrenology] all we knew about the brain was, how to slice it..." <br />
R. Chenevix
(phrenologist), 1828.</font></p>
</dir></dir>
<div align="left">
<table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="7" width="773">
<tr>
<td width="42%" valign="top"> <p align="left"><a href="#whatwasit"><font size="4">What
was phrenology? </font></a></p>
<p align="left"><a href="#whatdidtheydo"><font size="4">What did phrenologists
actually do?</font></a></p>
<p align="left"><a href="#whathappened"><font size="4">What became of
phrenology? </font></a></p>
<p align="left"><a href="#true"><font size="4">How much of it was true?</font></a> </p>
<p align="left"><a href="#terms"><font size="4">Terms and Definitions</font></a> </p></td>
<td width="26%" valign="top"> <p align="center"><img src="images/front.jpg" width="105" height="190" alt="A phrenological diagram" />
</p></td>
<td width="33%" valign="top"> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<dir></dir>
<p align="left"><b><a name="whatwasit" id="whatwasit"><font size="4">What was phrenology?</font></a></b></p>
<div align="left"><a href="images/gall6.jpg"><img src="images/gall6.jpg" align="left" hspace="12" width="183" height="231" alt="Franz Joseph Gall" border="0" /></a> </div>
<p align="justify"><font size="3">Phrenology was a science of character divination,
faculty psychology, theory of <a href="brainlinks.htm" target="_blank">brain</a>
and what the 19th-century phrenologists called "the only true science of
mind." Phrenology came from the theories of the idiosyncratic Viennese physician
<a href="fjgall.html" target="_blank">Franz Joseph Gall</a> (1758-1828).
The basic tenets of Gall's system were:</font></p>
<p align="justify">1.The brain is the organ of the mind.<br />
2. The mind is composed of multiple, distinct, innate faculties.<br />
3. Because they are distinct, each faculty must have a separate seat or
"organ" in the brain.<br />
4. The size of an organ, other things being equal, is a measure of its power.<br />
5. The shape of the brain is determined by the development of the various
organs.<br />
6. As the skull takes its shape from the brain, the surface of the skull
can be read as an accurate index of psychological aptitudes and tendencies.
(For a description in Gall's own words see: <a href="texts/retzer.htm" target="_blank">Letter
to von Retzer</a>)</p>
<p align="justify"> So it was believed that by examining the shape and unevenness
of a head or skull, one could discover the development of the particular
cerebral "<a href="organs.html">organs</a>" responsible for different intellectual
aptitudes and character traits. For example, a prominent protuberance in
the forehead at the position attributed to the organ of <a href="system/benevolence.htm">Benevolence</a>
was meant to indicate that the individual had a "well developed" organ of
<a href="system/benevolence.htm">Benevolence</a> and would therefore be
expected to exhibit benevolent behaviour. <a href="system/benevolence.htm"><img src="system/plate39.jpg" alt="The organ of Benevolence compared from Combe 1850." width="535" height="218" hspace="9" vspace="9" border="0" align="right" /></a></p>
<p align="justify">However, like so many popular sciences, <a href="fjgall.html" target="_blank">Gall</a>
and the phrenologists <i>sought only</i> <i>confirmations</i> for their
hypotheses and did not apply the same standard to contradictory evidence.
Any evidence or anecdote which seemed to confirm the science was readily
and vociferously accepted as "proof" of the "truth" of phrenology. At the
same time, contradictory findings, such as a not very benevolent and disagreeable
person having a well-developed organ of <a href="system/benevolence.htm">Benevolence</a>
were always explained away. This was often done by claiming that the activity
of other organs counteracted Benevolence. What was never accepted by phrenologists,
however, was that admitting that the activity of a particular faculty could
be independent of the size of its organ undermined the most fundamental
assumptions of the science- and thereby rendered all of its conclusions
inconsistent and meaningless. (For a more in depth account of the origins
of phrenology see: <a href="texts/2002van_wyhe.htm">van Wyhe 2002</a>.)</p>
<p align="justify"> <b>The history of phrenology can be divided into three general
phases.</b> The first, extending roughly from the mid-1790s to the 1810s,
saw only the Germans Gall and his disciple <a href="spurzheim.html">J.G.
Spurzheim</a> <img src="images/_spurz1.jpg" alt="Johann Gaspar Spurzheim" width="62" height="88" hspace="9" vspace="9" border="0" align="left" />as
the practitioners and advocates of the science. From 1815 a damning
review in the prestigious <a href="ridicule.htm"><i>Edinburgh Review </i></a>launched
the science into general public view in the English-speaking world
instead of being restricted to elite medical journals. From this
time forward many more middle-class men took up phrenology as a scientistic
pursuit. These first phrenologists sought to achieve recognition
for themselves as students of the greatest of all the sciences. It
was meant to be a certain science of human nature. Spurzheim faced
down and refuted his <a href="ridicule.htm"><i>Edinburgh
Review</i></a> critic and thereby won many converts in Edinburgh. The first
phrenological society was founded in Edinburgh in 1820, and many more
followed throughout Britain and America in later decades. In addition
to societies these men established subject journals, modelled on existing
scientific journals and the Phrenological Association, which first met
in 1838, to mimic the British Association for the Advancement of Science
(from which phrenology had been excluded). <span class="style1">See <span style="COLOR: black"><a href="timeline.htm" target="_blank">Timeline</a>
and the '<a href="pj_intro.htm">Introductory Statement</a>'
to the <i>Phrenological Journal</i>, 1823.</span></span></p>
<div align="justify"><img src="images/spurz6.jpg" align="left" hspace="12" width="243" height="356" alt="J.G. Spurzheim lecturing c. 1820s" /> </div>
<p align="justify">From its beginnings as a social activity in Britain, phrenology
attracted the enthusiastic and the arrogant. Such persons found "one
of the most valuable discoveries that ever graced the annals of philosophy"
to be just the thing for them to enter the burgeoning world of scientific
societies. Furthermore, one could enter that world at the head. Many of
these early phrenologists were political and social reformers and a few
were ultra radicals- and many of the histories of phrenology describe
phrenology as a reformist or radical science. However, phrenology was
also of interest to many who were not intent on bringing about social
or political change. Many devout evangelicals saw in the organs <a href="system/veneration.htm">Veneration</a>
and <a href="system/wonder.htm">Wonder</a> additional evidence for the
design of a creator. Several Christian phrenological societies were founded
by these individuals. Most phrenologists, however, were much more secular.
They made phrenology a seminal environment for the beginnings of 19th-century
self-help philosophies, scientific naturalism, and secularization generally.
Nevertheless, it cannot be ignored that the majority of people convinced
by phrenology had not social or political agenda but found the theory of
cerebral localization of character traits plausible. For practitioners
of phrenology the science bestowed an awesome authority which, they claimed,
could not be matched by any other science. </p>
<p align="justify">From Britain phrenology spread to America and France in the
1830s and in the1840s it was re-introduced to Germany. It became far more
successful in America. Phrenology died away in Britain by the early 1850s
but a new movement was re-introduced to Britain by the American "phrenological
Fowlers" in the 1860s and 1870s. <img src="images/ln_fowler.jpg" alt="L.N. Fowler" width="124" height="131" hspace="15" vspace="15" align="right" />The
<a href="fowlers.htm">Fowlers</a> had begun lecturing and reading heads
for fees in New York in the 1830s. Their phrenology was wholly borrowed
from the British modifications of Gall's system. The Fowlers swept through
Britain on a successful lecture tour before establishing various phrenological
institutions, societies and publishing concerns. Less scientifically pretentious
and more overtly entrepreneurial, it is largely this latter-day phrenology
whose remnants are still seen today. A <a href="busts.htm" target="_blank">phrenological
bust</a> in an antique shop will almost invariably bear the label "<a href="images/ln_fowler.jpg" target="_blank">L.
N. Fowler</a>". The latter phrenology movement was largley responsible for
the anthropometric (head reading) craze of the latter 19th century and its
well-known anthropological/<a href="system/national_character.htm">racial</a>
concerns. The early phrenological movement was concerned more with providing
practitioners with claims to epistemological certainty and intellectual
authority than disscussing human races.<br />
Phrenology evolved into wider and wider cultural space over time, beginning
with Gall and the highest scientific and social and cultural elites, from
Goethe to the king of Prussia, to the British and American scientifically
pretentious middle-class phrenological societies of <a href="constindex.html" target="_blank">George
Combe</a> and finally to the disreputable practical "professors" of phrenology,
reading heads for profit and the mass audiences of the Fowlers to the dawn
of the 20th century. So-called "practical" phrenologists like
the Fowlers, far outnmubered, in the long run, the interested medical men,
the scientifically pretensious and theoretical phrenologists. Many <a href="texts.htm" target="_blank">orignal
texts </a>are available at this site which portray a broad range of phrenological
literature- from high brow to low brow.</p>
<h1 align="justify"> <a name="whatdidtheydo" id="whatdidtheydo"><font size="4">What did phrenologists
actually do?</font></a> <img src="images/manipulation.gif" width="173" height="288" hspace="15" vspace="15" align="right" /></h1>
<p align="justify">Phrenologizing involved mostly head reading and character
analyses as well as speculation on the interactions between the faculties
(which were spoken of as if each were a selfish homunculus, seeking its
own gratification). Most phrenologists would run their bare finger tips
(Gall recommended using the palms of the hands) over a head to distinguish
any elevations or indentations. Sometimes callipers, <img src="images/callipers.jpg" alt="Phrenological callipers from Combe, Elements of phrenology." width="317" height="375" hspace="12" vspace="15" align="left" />measuring
tapes and other instruments were used. A skilled phrenologist knew not just
the cartographic layout of the head according to the latest phrenological
chart, but also the personalities and pros and cons, of each of the 35 odd
organs (the number of organs gradually increased over time, see: <a href="organs.html" target="_blank">the
Phrenological organs</a>). Phrenologists also diagnosed one's <a href="temperament.htm">temperament
or humour</a>- an oft forgotten component of phrenology. See a chapter from
Donovan's <em><a href="donovan_heads.html">A
Handbook of Phrenology</a></em> (1870) for a more detailed description and
illustrations for head reading.</p>
<p align="justify"> For an amusing late 19th-century personal reminiscence of
being phrenologized, <a href="texts/rankin.htm">click here</a>. And
for the character analysis and career advice for girl under the age of seven
in 1912, <a href="hatfield.html">click
here</a>. </p>
<p align="justify">In the early days of phrenology, phrenologists often met weekly
or bi-weekly at their local phrenological society. Here they would hear
a lecture and marvel over new confirmations of phrenology. They often kept
small libraries of phrenological works and museums of phrenological <a href="images.html" target="_blank">busts,
skulls, and casts</a> of the heads of the famous and infamous or examples
of different "<a href="system/national_character.htm">races</a>" of humans.</p>
<p align="justify">During phrenology's first heyday in the 1820s-1840s, many
employers could demand a character reference from a local phrenologist to
ensure that a prospective employee was honest and hard-working. This belief
that the protuberances on the skull provided an accurate index of talents
and abilities was particularly urged to be applied to education and criminal
reform. Phrenologists, not unlike those who today believe in strong demarcations
in "left-" or "right-brains", thought they could determine the most suitable
career for the young and match prospective mates with greater accuracy than
'old-fashioned love'. Visiting a phrenologist was akin to seeking the advice
of so-called psychics, clairvoyants or astrologers today. A phrenologist
was someone who claimed to have access to special knowledge about people.
The ignorant and gullible were particularly susceptible to the pretensions
of phrenologists.</p>
<div align="justify"><img src="images/manipulating.jpg" align="left" hspace="12" width="89" height="157" alt="Examining room at the Fowler and Wells phrenological museum, 1860" /> </div>
<p align="justify">Phrenology was spread, from the days of Gall, through the
end of the 19th century, largely by itinerant lecturers, as was <a href="system/mesmeric.htm">mesmerism</a>.
A pamphlet by a typical "practical phrenologist" is H. Lundie's <a href="texts/mirror/lundie.html" target="_blank"><i>The
Phrenological Mirror.</i></a> This pamphlet includes the prices for providing
delineations, the meaning of each organ per its size (some of which are
quite amusing) the four classical humours or <a href="temperament.htm">temperaments</a>
as appropriated by the phrenologists, and two brief sections on how one
<i>ought</i> and <i>ought not</i> use one's organs. In effect, Lundie's
pamphlet, like most phrenology texts, was to serve as an owner's manual
for the human <a href="brainlinks.htm" target="_blank">brain</a>. </p>
<p align="justify"> Phrenologists also spent considerable time and effort in
defending themselves and their science from <a href="ridicule.htm">criticism</a>-
always ready to portray themselves as Galileo-like defenders of natural
truth, condemned by bigoted religious and close-minded scientific critics.
Identical arguments are used today by charlatans of all descriptions who
claim to have special knowledge or abilities. Those too rational or cautious
to believe without evidence are dismissed as "close-minded".</p>
<h1 align="justify"> <a name="whathappened" id="whathappened"><font size="4">What became of phrenology?</font>
</a> </h1>
<p align="justify">Phrenology has been almost universally considered completely
discredited as a science since the mid-19th century. Even during the peak
of its popularity between the 1820s and 1840s, phrenology was always controversial
and never achieved the status of an accredited science, which was so coveted
by its main proponents, such as <a href="combes.html"><img src="images/_combe02.jpg" alt="George Combe" width="89" height="121" hspace="15" vspace="15" border="0" align="left" /></a>the
Edinburgh lawyer, <a href="constindex.html">George Combe</a> and his circle. </p>
<p align="justify">Rather than portraying phrenology as having succumbed to an
inexorable progress of 'science' or representing the Victorians as having
become less 'gullible', phrenology can be understood to have been diffused
and absorbed into a host of other practices and traditions- as such many
of its components live on. Alison Winter uses a similar approach to understand
the 'disappearance' of mesmerism. Phrenology, as all popular fads, eventually
became deeply unfashionable amongst the well-to-do who had previously espoused
it. It had degenerated into a sect of zealous extremists. Many of the first
generation phrenologists were unable to pass on their discredited knowledge
to a new generation which had many more opportunities to participate in
popular sciences. Nevertheless, the British Phrenological Society (founded
by Lorenzo Niles Fowler in 1887) was only disbanded in 1967. <br />
A legacy of phrenology lived on in other projects of measuring and comparing
human heads- most notoriously the attention to cranial size, forehead shape
etc. used by late 19th and early 20th century racial anthropologists to
confirm their belief that Europeans were superior to other humans. Paul
Broca was prominent in this movement and he helped establish the Anthropological
Society in Paris in 1859.</p>
<p align="justify">The history of phrenology is now of interest to historians
and those seeking the early roots of modern cerebral localization and neuroscience.
Methodologically problematic as it was, phrenology was the first system
to attribute psychological behaviour to localized regions of cerebral cortex,
an approach that has, with refinements and exceptions, been increasingly
vindicated since the 1860s following the work of Pierre-Paul Broca and others
in France and Carl Wernicke in Germany in the 1870s. Other main principles
of phrenology were generally confirmed at the end of the 19th century by
the work of David Ferrier, J. Hughlings Jackson, John Bucknill, James Crichton-Browne
and Charles Sherrington.</p>
<h1 align="justify"><b> <font size="4">How much of it was <a name="true" id="true">true</a>?</font>
</b></h1>
<p align="justify">Ironically, most of phrenology's <a href="#whatwasit">basic
premises</a> have been vindicated, though the particulars of reading character
from the skull have not. For example, the principle that many functions
are localized in the brain is now a commonplace (although many other functions
are distributed). Also, areas of the brain that are more frequently used
(as the right hippocampus of London taxi drivers) may become enlarged with
use. (See <a href="http://www.jneurosci.org/"><i>The Journal of Neuroscience</i></a>,
vol. 17, 1997.) This is exactly what phrenologists asserted.<br />
Some personality or speech disorders correlate to specific atrophied regions
of the brain. From this we conclude that the affected part of the brain
was either necessary for or <i>simply was</i> that bit of the personality
or ability. Modern brain imaging techniques, such as functional magnetic
resonance imaging (FMRI) make the localization of functions demonstrable
beyond doubt.<br />
Palaeontologists make endocasts from the skulls of early hominids to determine
the shapes of their brains and have suggested that an enlarged node at Broca's
region is evidence of language use. This is essentially phrenology in a
new guise. Size is taken as evidence for power and functions are believed
to reside in specifcally bounded regions.<br />
All of the '<a href="#organ">organs</a>' or bumps identified by phrenologists
are now considered purely imaginary except for Gall's 'faculty for words
or verbal memory'- which was close to the present location of Broca's and
Wernicke's speech areas. However, following <a href="organs.html#spurzheim">Spurzheim's
modifications</a> of Gall's system, later phrenology abandoned this only
correct organ!<br />
And finally, today we know that what was traditionally called "the mind"
is indeed nothing more than functioning human <a href="brainlinks.htm">brain</a>.
See <a href="other_sites.html">Other websites about phrenology</a> and the
<a href="biblio.htm">bibliography </a>for more information. </p>
<h1 align="justify"><b> <a name="terms" id="terms"><font size="4">Terms and Definitions</font></a>
</b></h1>
<p align="justify"><b>Phrenology: </b>This term came into general use around
1819/1820 in Britain where it was coined by the physician T.I.M. Forster
in 1815. It is derived from the Greek roots: <i>phren</i>: 'mind' and <i>logos</i>:
'study/discourse'. Gall himself never approved of the term phrenology. He
called his system simply organology and <i>Schädellehre</i> and later
simply 'the physiology of the brain'. The name phrenology really shows the
far-reaching pretensions of the phrenologists to extend their authority
over a greater area than just cerebral anatomy.</p>
<p align="justify"><b>Craniology</b> and <b>cranioscopy: </b>Additional, older
terms for phrenology. Contrary to what is often alleged, these terms were
not favoured or used by Gall, nor did they originally have different meanings.
These two terms, and other variants (such as craniotome, craniognomy, or
craniognosy), were used indiscriminately to refer to the doctrines of Gall
and the phrenologists before the term phrenology was seized upon by Gall's
former pupil, and the Saint Paul of phrenology, J.G. Spurzheim and the more
pretentious British phrenologists. Beginning in the mid-1840s a new use
for the term <b>cranioscopy</b> arose, meaning specifically the study of
the size, shape, etc. of the skull, especially those of various '<a href="system/national_character.htm">races</a>',
as a part of an overtly scientific anthropology. This use was first made
by the German physiologist and psychologist Carl Gustav Carus (1789-1869). </p>
<p align="justify"><b>Physiognomy</b>, the study of internal character from external
appearances- most notably the face- was a partly aesthetic and partly philosophical
practice which preceded phrenology (its roots lay as far back as the middle
ages). Its main advocate in the late eighteenth century was the Swiss clergyman
J. G. Lavater (1741-1801) in his <i>Physiognomical Fragments</i> (1775-8).
See <a href="other_physiogs.htm" target="_blank">Other Physiognomies</a>.
A few physiognomical works are available on-line, see: <a href="other_texts.html">Other
phrenological texts on-line</a>.</p>
<p align="justify"><b>Faculty</b><font size="3"><b>:</b> phrenologists believed
"the mind" was divided into a number of discrete departments, each specialized
for certain tasks or tendencies, e.g. "the faculty of Benevolence means
every mode of benevolent feeling induced by means of the organ of Benevolence."
The cerebral organs and their faculties carried the same names- so the lists
of organs provided at this site are also lists of mental faculties. Other
faculty psychologies contained faculties like memory, reason, intellect
and so on. See: <a href="organs.html">Phrenological Organs</a>.</font></p>
<p align="justify"><b><a name="organ" id="organ"></a>Organ</b><font size="3"><b>:</b> the
"material instrument" by which a particular faculty was believed to operate.
The size of an organ was the measure of its power or activity. The skull
was said to take its shape from the underlying <a href="brainlinks.htm" target="_blank">brain</a>
and hence, the larger or smaller an organ, the skull above it was expected
to reflect this development. (Phrenologists pointed to cases of hydrocephalus,
collection of water in the brain, in which the skull can become grotesquely
distended while brain function may be unimpaired). The phrenological organs
were mirrored in each hemisphere which is why some busts only have organs
marked on one side. (i.e. there were two of each except Amativeness.) <a href="organs.html" target="_blank">Phrenological
Organs</a></font></p>
<p align="justify"><b>Bumpology:</b> is probably one of the best-known aspersions
used to lampoon phrenology. See: <a href="ridicule.htm">Ridiculing Phrenology.
</a></p>
<p align="justify"><b>Pseudoscience</b>: Historians of science tend no longer
use this term as it is widely considered to be biased and judgmental. It
implies the application of a current conception of science, and <i>proper</i>
scientific attributes, onto historical phenomena. Such value judgments
about the so-called virtues and vices of historical subjects are now seen
as outside the scope of historians' projects. Many historians of science
today consider the use of this term naive. Nevertheless the word was sometimes
used by contemporaries to describe phrenology.</p>
<p align="justify"><b>Further reading:</b></p>
<p align="justify">For a more in-depth look at the beginnings of phrenology
see my article
'<a href="http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk/other_texts/2002van_wyhe.htm" target="_blank">The
authority of human nature: the <em>Schädellehre</em> of Franz Joseph Gall</a>', <em>British
Journal for the History of Science</em>, March, 2002, pp. 17-42.
For the following history of phrenology in Britain and especially the naturalism
that came out of it see my book: <em><span class="style1"><a href="https://www.ashgate.com/shopping/title.asp?key1=&key2=&orig=results&isbn=0%207546%203408%206" target="_blank">Phrenology
and the origins of Victorian scientific naturalism </a></span></em><strong>(2004). (<a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phrenology-Victorian-Scientific-Naturalism-Technology/dp/0754634086" target="_blank">Amazon
link</a>)</strong></p>
<p align="justify" class="style1"> The
most complete primary source on phrenology on the internet is Combe's <i><b><a href="system/system_intro.htm">A
System of Phrenology, 2 vols.</a></b></i>, 5th edn, 1853. See <span class="style3 style1">also Spurzheim, <em><a href="phren_fm.html">Phrenology:
or the doctrine of the mental phenomena</a></em>. For a quick overview
see: Spurzheim,<em> <a href="texts/spz_outlines.html">Outlines
of Phrenology; being also a manual of reference for the marked busts</a></em>.
London, 1827. [Illustrated html] </span></p>
<p align="justify" class="style1"><b><a href="texts.htm">All phrenology texts online</a></b></p>
<p align="justify" class="style1">Have a look at the next page: <a href="literature.html"><b>Phrenology
in Literature</b></a> some of the best selling Victorian books were influenced
by phrenology.</p>
<p align="justify" class="style1">Also of interest: <a href="ridicule.htm"><b>Ridiculing
Phrenology</b></a>. No science was ever abused so much- but what effect
did that have?</p>
<p align="justify" class="style1"> </p>
<p align="justify" class="style1"><font color="#000000"><font color="#990000">Acknowledgements:</font></font> <font color="#000000">Many people have kindly contributed to this project
including: Aileen
Fyfe, Jim & Anne Secord, Cordula van Wyhe, Lisle Dalton, Wolfgang Schütz,
Anthony Walsh, John Henderson, and Antranig Basman. </font></p>
</div>
<!-- #EndEditable --></div>
<div align="left"></div><p align="center" class="style1"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk"><b>
Back to home page</b></a></font></p>
<p class="style1"><font color="#000000"><span class="style2"><i>© <a href="http://darwin-online.org.uk/people/van_wyhe.html" target="_blank">John van Wyhe</a> 1999-2011</i>.
Materials on this website may not be reproduced without permission except for use in teaching
or non-published presentations, papers/theses. </span></font></p>
</body>
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History of Phrenology on the Web
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## [Phrenological bust by LN Fowler](images.html)Phrenological bust by LN Fowler[The History of Phrenology on the Web](http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk)
**by
[John
van Wyhe](http://darwin-online.org.uk/people/van_wyhe.html)**
| | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [Overview](overview.htm) | [O](organs.html)[rgans](organs.html) | [Texts](texts.htm) | [Images](images.html) | [Individuals](individuals.htm) | [Bibliography](biblio.htm) |
---
"[Before
phrenology] all we knew about the brain was, how to slice it..."
R. Chenevix
(phrenologist), 1828.
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [What
was phrenology?](#whatwasit)
[What did phrenologists
actually do?](#whatdidtheydo)
[What became of
phrenology?](#whathappened)
[How much of it was true?](#true)
[Terms and Definitions](#terms) | A phrenological diagram
| |
**What was phrenology?**
[](images/gall6.jpg)
Phrenology was a science of character divination,
faculty psychology, theory of [brain](brainlinks.htm)
and what the 19th-century phrenologists called "the only true science of
mind." Phrenology came from the theories of the idiosyncratic Viennese physician
[Franz Joseph Gall](fjgall.html) (1758-1828).
The basic tenets of Gall's system were:
1.The brain is the organ of the mind.
2. The mind is composed of multiple, distinct, innate faculties.
3. Because they are distinct, each faculty must have a separate seat or
"organ" in the brain.
4. The size of an organ, other things being equal, is a measure of its power.
5. The shape of the brain is determined by the development of the various
organs.
6. As the skull takes its shape from the brain, the surface of the skull
can be read as an accurate index of psychological aptitudes and tendencies.
(For a description in Gall's own words see: [Letter
to von Retzer](texts/retzer.htm))
So it was believed that by examining the shape and unevenness
of a head or skull, one could discover the development of the particular
cerebral "[organs](organs.html)" responsible for different intellectual
aptitudes and character traits. For example, a prominent protuberance in
the forehead at the position attributed to the organ of [Benevolence](system/benevolence.htm)
was meant to indicate that the individual had a "well developed" organ of
[Benevolence](system/benevolence.htm) and would therefore be
expected to exhibit benevolent behaviour. [](system/benevolence.htm)
However, like so many popular sciences, [Gall](fjgall.html)
and the phrenologists *sought only* *confirmations* for their
hypotheses and did not apply the same standard to contradictory evidence.
Any evidence or anecdote which seemed to confirm the science was readily
and vociferously accepted as "proof" of the "truth" of phrenology. At the
same time, contradictory findings, such as a not very benevolent and disagreeable
person having a well-developed organ of [Benevolence](system/benevolence.htm)
were always explained away. This was often done by claiming that the activity
of other organs counteracted Benevolence. What was never accepted by phrenologists,
however, was that admitting that the activity of a particular faculty could
be independent of the size of its organ undermined the most fundamental
assumptions of the science- and thereby rendered all of its conclusions
inconsistent and meaningless. (For a more in depth account of the origins
of phrenology see: [van Wyhe 2002](texts/2002van_wyhe.htm).)
**The history of phrenology can be divided into three general
phases.** The first, extending roughly from the mid-1790s to the 1810s,
saw only the Germans Gall and his disciple [J.G.
Spurzheim](spurzheim.html) as
the practitioners and advocates of the science. From 1815 a damning
review in the prestigious [*Edinburgh Review*](ridicule.htm) launched
the science into general public view in the English-speaking world
instead of being restricted to elite medical journals. From this
time forward many more middle-class men took up phrenology as a scientistic
pursuit. These first phrenologists sought to achieve recognition
for themselves as students of the greatest of all the sciences. It
was meant to be a certain science of human nature. Spurzheim faced
down and refuted his [*Edinburgh
Review*](ridicule.htm) critic and thereby won many converts in Edinburgh. The first
phrenological society was founded in Edinburgh in 1820, and many more
followed throughout Britain and America in later decades. In addition
to societies these men established subject journals, modelled on existing
scientific journals and the Phrenological Association, which first met
in 1838, to mimic the British Association for the Advancement of Science
(from which phrenology had been excluded). See [Timeline](timeline.htm)
and the '[Introductory Statement](pj_intro.htm)'
to the *Phrenological Journal*, 1823.
From its beginnings as a social activity in Britain, phrenology
attracted the enthusiastic and the arrogant. Such persons found "one
of the most valuable discoveries that ever graced the annals of philosophy"
to be just the thing for them to enter the burgeoning world of scientific
societies. Furthermore, one could enter that world at the head. Many of
these early phrenologists were political and social reformers and a few
were ultra radicals- and many of the histories of phrenology describe
phrenology as a reformist or radical science. However, phrenology was
also of interest to many who were not intent on bringing about social
or political change. Many devout evangelicals saw in the organs [Veneration](system/veneration.htm)
and [Wonder](system/wonder.htm) additional evidence for the
design of a creator. Several Christian phrenological societies were founded
by these individuals. Most phrenologists, however, were much more secular.
They made phrenology a seminal environment for the beginnings of 19th-century
self-help philosophies, scientific naturalism, and secularization generally.
Nevertheless, it cannot be ignored that the majority of people convinced
by phrenology had not social or political agenda but found the theory of
cerebral localization of character traits plausible. For practitioners
of phrenology the science bestowed an awesome authority which, they claimed,
could not be matched by any other science.
From Britain phrenology spread to America and France in the
1830s and in the1840s it was re-introduced to Germany. It became far more
successful in America. Phrenology died away in Britain by the early 1850s
but a new movement was re-introduced to Britain by the American "phrenological
Fowlers" in the 1860s and 1870s. The
[Fowlers](fowlers.htm) had begun lecturing and reading heads
for fees in New York in the 1830s. Their phrenology was wholly borrowed
from the British modifications of Gall's system. The Fowlers swept through
Britain on a successful lecture tour before establishing various phrenological
institutions, societies and publishing concerns. Less scientifically pretentious
and more overtly entrepreneurial, it is largely this latter-day phrenology
whose remnants are still seen today. A [phrenological
bust](busts.htm) in an antique shop will almost invariably bear the label "[L.
N. Fowler](images/ln_fowler.jpg)". The latter phrenology movement was largley responsible for
the anthropometric (head reading) craze of the latter 19th century and its
well-known anthropological/[racial](system/national_character.htm)
concerns. The early phrenological movement was concerned more with providing
practitioners with claims to epistemological certainty and intellectual
authority than disscussing human races.
Phrenology evolved into wider and wider cultural space over time, beginning
with Gall and the highest scientific and social and cultural elites, from
Goethe to the king of Prussia, to the British and American scientifically
pretentious middle-class phrenological societies of [George
Combe](constindex.html) and finally to the disreputable practical "professors" of phrenology,
reading heads for profit and the mass audiences of the Fowlers to the dawn
of the 20th century. So-called "practical" phrenologists like
the Fowlers, far outnmubered, in the long run, the interested medical men,
the scientifically pretensious and theoretical phrenologists. Many [orignal
texts](texts.htm) are available at this site which portray a broad range of phrenological
literature- from high brow to low brow.
# What did phrenologists
actually do?
Phrenologizing involved mostly head reading and character
analyses as well as speculation on the interactions between the faculties
(which were spoken of as if each were a selfish homunculus, seeking its
own gratification). Most phrenologists would run their bare finger tips
(Gall recommended using the palms of the hands) over a head to distinguish
any elevations or indentations. Sometimes callipers, measuring
tapes and other instruments were used. A skilled phrenologist knew not just
the cartographic layout of the head according to the latest phrenological
chart, but also the personalities and pros and cons, of each of the 35 odd
organs (the number of organs gradually increased over time, see: [the
Phrenological organs](organs.html)). Phrenologists also diagnosed one's [temperament
or humour](temperament.htm)- an oft forgotten component of phrenology. See a chapter from
Donovan's *[A
Handbook of Phrenology](donovan_heads.html)* (1870) for a more detailed description and
illustrations for head reading.
For an amusing late 19th-century personal reminiscence of
being phrenologized, [click here](texts/rankin.htm). And
for the character analysis and career advice for girl under the age of seven
in 1912, [click
here](hatfield.html).
In the early days of phrenology, phrenologists often met weekly
or bi-weekly at their local phrenological society. Here they would hear
a lecture and marvel over new confirmations of phrenology. They often kept
small libraries of phrenological works and museums of phrenological [busts,
skulls, and casts](images.html) of the heads of the famous and infamous or examples
of different "[races](system/national_character.htm)" of humans.
During phrenology's first heyday in the 1820s-1840s, many
employers could demand a character reference from a local phrenologist to
ensure that a prospective employee was honest and hard-working. This belief
that the protuberances on the skull provided an accurate index of talents
and abilities was particularly urged to be applied to education and criminal
reform. Phrenologists, not unlike those who today believe in strong demarcations
in "left-" or "right-brains", thought they could determine the most suitable
career for the young and match prospective mates with greater accuracy than
'old-fashioned love'. Visiting a phrenologist was akin to seeking the advice
of so-called psychics, clairvoyants or astrologers today. A phrenologist
was someone who claimed to have access to special knowledge about people.
The ignorant and gullible were particularly susceptible to the pretensions
of phrenologists.
Phrenology was spread, from the days of Gall, through the
end of the 19th century, largely by itinerant lecturers, as was [mesmerism](system/mesmeric.htm).
A pamphlet by a typical "practical phrenologist" is H. Lundie's [*The
Phrenological Mirror.*](texts/mirror/lundie.html) This pamphlet includes the prices for providing
delineations, the meaning of each organ per its size (some of which are
quite amusing) the four classical humours or [temperaments](temperament.htm)
as appropriated by the phrenologists, and two brief sections on how one
*ought* and *ought not* use one's organs. In effect, Lundie's
pamphlet, like most phrenology texts, was to serve as an owner's manual
for the human [brain](brainlinks.htm).
Phrenologists also spent considerable time and effort in
defending themselves and their science from [criticism](ridicule.htm)-
always ready to portray themselves as Galileo-like defenders of natural
truth, condemned by bigoted religious and close-minded scientific critics.
Identical arguments are used today by charlatans of all descriptions who
claim to have special knowledge or abilities. Those too rational or cautious
to believe without evidence are dismissed as "close-minded".
# What became of phrenology?
Phrenology has been almost universally considered completely
discredited as a science since the mid-19th century. Even during the peak
of its popularity between the 1820s and 1840s, phrenology was always controversial
and never achieved the status of an accredited science, which was so coveted
by its main proponents, such as [](combes.html)the
Edinburgh lawyer, [George Combe](constindex.html) and his circle.
Rather than portraying phrenology as having succumbed to an
inexorable progress of 'science' or representing the Victorians as having
become less 'gullible', phrenology can be understood to have been diffused
and absorbed into a host of other practices and traditions- as such many
of its components live on. Alison Winter uses a similar approach to understand
the 'disappearance' of mesmerism. Phrenology, as all popular fads, eventually
became deeply unfashionable amongst the well-to-do who had previously espoused
it. It had degenerated into a sect of zealous extremists. Many of the first
generation phrenologists were unable to pass on their discredited knowledge
to a new generation which had many more opportunities to participate in
popular sciences. Nevertheless, the British Phrenological Society (founded
by Lorenzo Niles Fowler in 1887) was only disbanded in 1967.
A legacy of phrenology lived on in other projects of measuring and comparing
human heads- most notoriously the attention to cranial size, forehead shape
etc. used by late 19th and early 20th century racial anthropologists to
confirm their belief that Europeans were superior to other humans. Paul
Broca was prominent in this movement and he helped establish the Anthropological
Society in Paris in 1859.
The history of phrenology is now of interest to historians
and those seeking the early roots of modern cerebral localization and neuroscience.
Methodologically problematic as it was, phrenology was the first system
to attribute psychological behaviour to localized regions of cerebral cortex,
an approach that has, with refinements and exceptions, been increasingly
vindicated since the 1860s following the work of Pierre-Paul Broca and others
in France and Carl Wernicke in Germany in the 1870s. Other main principles
of phrenology were generally confirmed at the end of the 19th century by
the work of David Ferrier, J. Hughlings Jackson, John Bucknill, James Crichton-Browne
and Charles Sherrington.
# **How much of it was true?**
Ironically, most of phrenology's [basic
premises](#whatwasit) have been vindicated, though the particulars of reading character
from the skull have not. For example, the principle that many functions
are localized in the brain is now a commonplace (although many other functions
are distributed). Also, areas of the brain that are more frequently used
(as the right hippocampus of London taxi drivers) may become enlarged with
use. (See [*The Journal of Neuroscience*](http://www.jneurosci.org/),
vol. 17, 1997.) This is exactly what phrenologists asserted.
Some personality or speech disorders correlate to specific atrophied regions
of the brain. From this we conclude that the affected part of the brain
was either necessary for or *simply was* that bit of the personality
or ability. Modern brain imaging techniques, such as functional magnetic
resonance imaging (FMRI) make the localization of functions demonstrable
beyond doubt.
Palaeontologists make endocasts from the skulls of early hominids to determine
the shapes of their brains and have suggested that an enlarged node at Broca's
region is evidence of language use. This is essentially phrenology in a
new guise. Size is taken as evidence for power and functions are believed
to reside in specifcally bounded regions.
All of the '[organs](#organ)' or bumps identified by phrenologists
are now considered purely imaginary except for Gall's 'faculty for words
or verbal memory'- which was close to the present location of Broca's and
Wernicke's speech areas. However, following [Spurzheim's
modifications](organs.html#spurzheim) of Gall's system, later phrenology abandoned this only
correct organ!
And finally, today we know that what was traditionally called "the mind"
is indeed nothing more than functioning human [brain](brainlinks.htm).
See [Other websites about phrenology](other_sites.html) and the
[bibliography](biblio.htm) for more information.
# **Terms and Definitions**
**Phrenology:** This term came into general use around
1819/1820 in Britain where it was coined by the physician T.I.M. Forster
in 1815. It is derived from the Greek roots: *phren*: 'mind' and *logos*:
'study/discourse'. Gall himself never approved of the term phrenology. He
called his system simply organology and *Schädellehre* and later
simply 'the physiology of the brain'. The name phrenology really shows the
far-reaching pretensions of the phrenologists to extend their authority
over a greater area than just cerebral anatomy.
**Craniology** and **cranioscopy:** Additional, older
terms for phrenology. Contrary to what is often alleged, these terms were
not favoured or used by Gall, nor did they originally have different meanings.
These two terms, and other variants (such as craniotome, craniognomy, or
craniognosy), were used indiscriminately to refer to the doctrines of Gall
and the phrenologists before the term phrenology was seized upon by Gall's
former pupil, and the Saint Paul of phrenology, J.G. Spurzheim and the more
pretentious British phrenologists. Beginning in the mid-1840s a new use
for the term **cranioscopy** arose, meaning specifically the study of
the size, shape, etc. of the skull, especially those of various '[races](system/national_character.htm)',
as a part of an overtly scientific anthropology. This use was first made
by the German physiologist and psychologist Carl Gustav Carus (1789-1869).
**Physiognomy**, the study of internal character from external
appearances- most notably the face- was a partly aesthetic and partly philosophical
practice which preceded phrenology (its roots lay as far back as the middle
ages). Its main advocate in the late eighteenth century was the Swiss clergyman
J. G. Lavater (1741-1801) in his *Physiognomical Fragments* (1775-8).
See [Other Physiognomies](other_physiogs.htm).
A few physiognomical works are available on-line, see: [Other
phrenological texts on-line](other_texts.html).
**Faculty****:** phrenologists believed
"the mind" was divided into a number of discrete departments, each specialized
for certain tasks or tendencies, e.g. "the faculty of Benevolence means
every mode of benevolent feeling induced by means of the organ of Benevolence."
The cerebral organs and their faculties carried the same names- so the lists
of organs provided at this site are also lists of mental faculties. Other
faculty psychologies contained faculties like memory, reason, intellect
and so on. See: [Phrenological Organs](organs.html).
**Organ****:** the
"material instrument" by which a particular faculty was believed to operate.
The size of an organ was the measure of its power or activity. The skull
was said to take its shape from the underlying [brain](brainlinks.htm)
and hence, the larger or smaller an organ, the skull above it was expected
to reflect this development. (Phrenologists pointed to cases of hydrocephalus,
collection of water in the brain, in which the skull can become grotesquely
distended while brain function may be unimpaired). The phrenological organs
were mirrored in each hemisphere which is why some busts only have organs
marked on one side. (i.e. there were two of each except Amativeness.) [Phrenological
Organs](organs.html)
**Bumpology:** is probably one of the best-known aspersions
used to lampoon phrenology. See: [Ridiculing Phrenology.](ridicule.htm)
**Pseudoscience**: Historians of science tend no longer
use this term as it is widely considered to be biased and judgmental. It
implies the application of a current conception of science, and *proper*
scientific attributes, onto historical phenomena. Such value judgments
about the so-called virtues and vices of historical subjects are now seen
as outside the scope of historians' projects. Many historians of science
today consider the use of this term naive. Nevertheless the word was sometimes
used by contemporaries to describe phrenology.
**Further reading:**
For a more in-depth look at the beginnings of phrenology
see my article
'[The
authority of human nature: the *Schädellehre* of Franz Joseph Gall](http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk/other_texts/2002van_wyhe.htm)', *British
Journal for the History of Science*, March, 2002, pp. 17-42.
For the following history of phrenology in Britain and especially the naturalism
that came out of it see my book: *[Phrenology
and the origins of Victorian scientific naturalism](https://www.ashgate.com/shopping/title.asp?key1=&key2=&orig=results&isbn=0%207546%203408%206)* **(2004). ([Amazon
link](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phrenology-Victorian-Scientific-Naturalism-Technology/dp/0754634086))**
The
most complete primary source on phrenology on the internet is Combe's ***[A
System of Phrenology, 2 vols.](system/system_intro.htm)***, 5th edn, 1853. See also Spurzheim, *[Phrenology:
or the doctrine of the mental phenomena](phren_fm.html)*. For a quick overview
see: Spurzheim, *[Outlines
of Phrenology; being also a manual of reference for the marked busts](texts/spz_outlines.html)*.
London, 1827. [Illustrated html]
**[All phrenology texts online](texts.htm)**
Have a look at the next page: [**Phrenology
in Literature**](literature.html) some of the best selling Victorian books were influenced
by phrenology.
Also of interest: [**Ridiculing
Phrenology**](ridicule.htm). No science was ever abused so much- but what effect
did that have?
Acknowledgements: Many people have kindly contributed to this project
including: Aileen
Fyfe, Jim & Anne Secord, Cordula van Wyhe, Lisle Dalton, Wolfgang Schütz,
Anthony Walsh, John Henderson, and Antranig Basman.
[**Back to home page**](http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk)
*© [John van Wyhe](http://darwin-online.org.uk/people/van_wyhe.html) 1999-2011*.
Materials on this website may not be reproduced without permission except for use in teaching
or non-published presentations, papers/theses.
| http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk/overview.htm |
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<TITLE>Kettle Cookery</TITLE>
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<BODY LEFTMARGIN="0" TOPMARGIN="0" MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0">
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<TD WIDTH="10%"><IMG SRC="mekettle.jpg" WIDTH="150" HEIGHT="217" ALT="Kettle Cookery"></TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" WIDTH="90%">
<H1 ALIGN="CENTER"><B><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="+20">Kettle Cookery</FONT></B></H1>
<TABLE WIDTH="100%" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD>
<P>Kettle cookery is an exciting culinary skill that is simple to
master and that can have you producing simple food in less time
than it would take to produce it by traditional means. It is
perfect for students who will usually have a kettle in their room
but who may have to walk some distance to reach the nearest
cooking equipment. Why get out of bed, when you can make the food
in your kettle?</P></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" BGCOLOR="#000000"><A NAME="Egg"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF" FACE="Arial" SIZE="+2">Part
I: The Egg</FONT></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"><FONT SIZE="-2" FACE="Verdana,Arial" COLOR="#FFFFFF"><B>
Recipies</B><BR>
<A HREF="#Egg" STYLE="color: #FFFFFF">The Egg</A><BR>
<A HREF="#Pasta" STYLE="color: #FFFFFF">Pasta</A><BR>
<A HREF="#HotDog" STYLE="color: #FFFFFF">Hot Dog Sausages</A><BR>
<A HREF="#Everything" STYLE="color: #FFFFFF">Everything
Else</A></FONT></TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="CENTER">
<TABLE WIDTH="100%" BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER">
<H3><FONT FACE="Arial">You Need</FONT></H3>
<TABLE WIDTH="100%">
<TR>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="kettle.jpg" WIDTH="150" HEIGHT="145" ALT="Kettle"><BR>
<I>A Kettle</I></TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="net.jpg" WIDTH="150" HEIGHT="86" ALT="Netting"><BR>
<I>Netting (e.g. Orange/Tangerine Netting)</I></TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="egg.jpg" WIDTH="150" HEIGHT="121" ALT="Egg"><BR>
<I>A Medium Sized Egg</I></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<H3><FONT FACE="Arial">What To Do</FONT></H3>
<P><BR>
</P>
<P ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="egginnet.jpg" WIDTH="300" HEIGHT="162" ALT="Egg in Net"></P>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">1. Put the egg into the netting.</P>
<P ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="waterinkettle.jpg" WIDTH="300" HEIGHT="171" ALT="Open Kettle"></P>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">2. Fill the kettle with water and boil it.</P>
<P ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="egginnetinkettle.jpg" WIDTH="450" HEIGHT="260" ALT="Egg in Kettle"></P>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">3. Dip the egg into the boiling water so it is
completely submerged.</P>
<P ALIGN="CENTER"><IMG SRC="closedkettle.jpg" WIDTH="300" HEIGHT="372" ALT="Boiling an Egg"></P>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">4. Put the lid on the kettle. Keep turning the
kettle on every 30 seconds to one minute to keep the water
boiling. Leave the egg in the kettle for the required amount of
time (see table below).</P>
<TABLE WIDTH="40%" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD><I>5 minutes</I></TD>
<TD><I>Soft boiled</I></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><I>10 minutes</I></TD>
<TD><I>Hard boiled</I></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><I>20 minutes</I></TD>
<TD><I>Egg will explode!</I></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE><I>Kettle boiling times for a medium egg</I>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">5. Remove the egg from the kettle and eat it :)</P>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">Cooking eggs in your kettle will tend to work best
with medium sized eggs. You can do large eggs, but they must have
a thick shell otherwise they will explode in the kettle.</P>
<P></P></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE> </TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="LEFT" BGCOLOR="#000000"><A NAME="Pasta"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF" FACE="Arial" SIZE="+2">Part
II: Pasta</FONT></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM">
<TABLE WIDTH="100%" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">Use the same method as for the egg, but boil the
pasta for 10-12 minutes.</P>
<P></P></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" ALIGN="LEFT" BGCOLOR="#000000"><A NAME="HotDog"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF" FACE="Arial" SIZE="+2">Part
III: Hot Dog Sausages</FONT></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM">
<TABLE WIDTH="100%" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">As for the egg, but boil for about 10 minutes.</P>
<P></P></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM" BGCOLOR="#000000"><A NAME="Everything"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF" FACE="Arial" SIZE="+2">Part
IV: Everything Else</FONT></A></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH="10%" BGCOLOR="#000000" VALIGN="TOP"> </TD>
<TD VALIGN="BOTTOM">
<TABLE WIDTH="100%" CELLPADDING="5">
<TR>
<TD>
<P ALIGN="LEFT">By now you may have noticed a patern emerging. You
can do pretty much any food in your kettle that you would usually
boil in a pan. The important thing to remember is that you must
use a netting bag or the food may get jammed in the element.
Finally, never do anything like baked beans, the sauce will cover
the element and you will never get it clean.</P>
<P></P></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<H3 ALIGN="CENTER"><I>Have fun, and take care with those kettles!</I></H3>
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Kettle Cookery
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Kettle Cookery | **Kettle Cookery**
| |
| --- |
| Kettle cookery is an exciting culinary skill that is simple to
master and that can have you producing simple food in less time
than it would take to produce it by traditional means. It is
perfect for students who will usually have a kettle in their room
but who may have to walk some distance to reach the nearest
cooking equipment. Why get out of bed, when you can make the food
in your kettle? |
|
| | Part
I: The Egg |
| **Recipies**
[The Egg](#Egg)
[Pasta](#Pasta)
[Hot Dog Sausages](#HotDog)
[Everything
Else](#Everything) |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| You Need
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Kettle
*A Kettle* | Netting
*Netting (e.g. Orange/Tangerine Netting)* | Egg
*A Medium Sized Egg* |
What To Do
Egg in Net
1. Put the egg into the netting.
Open Kettle
2. Fill the kettle with water and boil it.
Egg in Kettle
3. Dip the egg into the boiling water so it is
completely submerged.
Boiling an Egg
4. Put the lid on the kettle. Keep turning the
kettle on every 30 seconds to one minute to keep the water
boiling. Leave the egg in the kettle for the required amount of
time (see table below).
| | |
| --- | --- |
| *5 minutes* | *Soft boiled* |
| *10 minutes* | *Hard boiled* |
| *20 minutes* | *Egg will explode!* |
*Kettle boiling times for a medium egg*
5. Remove the egg from the kettle and eat it :)
Cooking eggs in your kettle will tend to work best
with medium sized eggs. You can do large eggs, but they must have
a thick shell otherwise they will explode in the kettle.
|
|
| | Part
II: Pasta |
| |
| |
| --- |
| Use the same method as for the egg, but boil the
pasta for 10-12 minutes.
|
|
| | Part
III: Hot Dog Sausages |
| |
| |
| --- |
| As for the egg, but boil for about 10 minutes.
|
|
| | Part
IV: Everything Else |
| |
| |
| --- |
| By now you may have noticed a patern emerging. You
can do pretty much any food in your kettle that you would usually
boil in a pan. The important thing to remember is that you must
use a netting bag or the food may get jammed in the element.
Finally, never do anything like baked beans, the sauce will cover
the element and you will never get it clean.
|
*Have fun, and take care with those kettles!*
---
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<ul>
<li>Europe:
<ul>
<li><strong>Norway</strong>:
<A HREF="http://webmuseum.poboxes.info/wm/">
poboxes.info</A> (Thanks to Evert Meulie!)
<li><strong>Italy</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.aneb.it/wm/">
aneb.it</A>
<li><strong>England</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.southern.net/wm/">
Southern Records</A> (London)
<li><strong>Hungary</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/wm/">
József Attila University, Szeged</A>
(+
<A HREF="http://virgo.bibl.u-szeged.hu/wm/">1996 edition</A>)
<li><strong>Poland</strong>:
<A HREF="http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/wm/">
SunSITE ICM, Warsaw University</A>
<li><strong>Russia</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.sai.msu.su/wm/">
AstroNet - Sternberg Astronomical Institute</A> (Moscow University)
</ul>
<li>Asia:
<ul>
<li><strong>Singapore</strong>:
<A HREF="http://sunsite.nus.sg/wm/">
SunSITE National University of Singapore</a>
</ul>
<li>South America:
<ul>
<li><strong>Brazil</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.puc-rio.br/wm/">
PUC - Rio Datacentro</A> (Rio de Janeiro)
</ul>
<li>North America:
<ul>
<li><strong>USA - Massachusetts</strong>:
<A HREF="http://webmuseum.meulie.net/wm/">
meulie.net</A> (Thanks to Evert Meulie!)
<li><strong>USA - North Carolina</strong>:
<A HREF="http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/">
ibiblio.org</A> (master site)
<li><strong>Mexico</strong>:
<A HREF="http://mexplaza.udg.mx/wm/">
MexPlaza, Universidad de Guadalajara</A>
</ul>
</ul>
<hr>
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<br>
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WebMuseum: Bienvenue! (Welcome from the curator)
#
Nicolas Pioch
Bienvenue!
Online since 1994
Welcome to our visitors from
[all over the world](/wm/map/)!
##
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a unique set of over 100 artworks, exclusively on the WebMuseum!
##
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Please take a couple of seconds to switch to the closest site
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[**WebMuseum network**](/wm/net/);
this should dramatically improve the speed of data access.
* Europe:
+ **Norway**:
[poboxes.info](http://webmuseum.poboxes.info/wm/) (Thanks to Evert Meulie!)
+ **Italy**:
[aneb.it](http://www.aneb.it/wm/)+ **England**:
[Southern Records](http://www.southern.net/wm/) (London)
+ **Hungary**:
[József Attila University, Szeged](http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/wm/)
(+
[1996 edition](http://virgo.bibl.u-szeged.hu/wm/))
+ **Poland**:
[SunSITE ICM, Warsaw University](http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/wm/)+ **Russia**:
[AstroNet - Sternberg Astronomical Institute](http://www.sai.msu.su/wm/) (Moscow University)* Asia:
+ **Singapore**:
[SunSITE National University of Singapore](http://sunsite.nus.sg/wm/)* South America:
+ **Brazil**:
[PUC - Rio Datacentro](http://www.puc-rio.br/wm/) (Rio de Janeiro)* North America:
+ **USA - Massachusetts**:
[meulie.net](http://webmuseum.meulie.net/wm/) (Thanks to Evert Meulie!)
+ **USA - North Carolina**:
[ibiblio.org](http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/) (master site)
+ **Mexico**:
[MexPlaza, Universidad de Guadalajara](http://mexplaza.udg.mx/wm/)
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the terms and conditions of this License.
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---
© 25 Jul 2007,
[**Nicolas Pioch**](/wm/about/pioch.html) -
[Top](/wm/) -
[Up](../) -
[Info](/wm/about/)
Thanks to the BMW Foundation, the WebMuseum
[mirrors](/wm/net/),
[partners and contributors](/wm/about/credits.html)
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<HTML>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<!-- BELL-LABS
username Ritchie, Dennis
category user
contact dmr@bell-labs.com
-->
<!--<BASE HREF="http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/">-->
<title>Dennis Ritchie Home Page</title>
</head>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#000000" LINK="#0000FF" VLINK="#330088" ALINK="#FF0044">
<h1>Dennis M. Ritchie</h1>
<h2>Location</h2>
<IMG ALIGN="left" WIDTH=125 HEIGHT=145 HSPACE=100 SRC="dmr.gif" alt="DMR picture">
<UL>
<li>Dennis Ritchie
<br>
<a href="http://www.bell-labs.com/">Bell Labs</a>, Rm 2C-517
<br>
600 Mountain Ave.
<br>Murray Hill, New Jersey 07974-0636, USA
<li>dmr@bell-labs.com
<li>+1 908-582-3770 <em>(office)</em>, +1 908-582-5857 <em>(fax)</em>
</ul>
<br>
<hr>
<h2>In Memoriam</h2>
Dennis died in early October, 2011.
This is a note from his sister and brothers:
<p>
As Dennis's siblings, Lynn, John, and Bill Ritchie--on behalf of the entire Ritchie family--we wanted to convey to all of you how deeply moved, astonished, and appreciative we are of the loving tributes to Dennis that we have been reading. We can confirm what we keep hearing again and again:
<p>
Dennis was an unfailingly kind, sweet, unassuming, and generous brother--and of course a complete geek. He had a hilariously dry sense of humor, and a keen appreciation for life's absurdities--though his world view was entirely devoid of cynicism or mean-spiritedness.
<p>
We are terribly sad to have lost him, but touched beyond words to realize what a mark he made on the world, and how well his gentle personality--beyond his accomplishments--seems to be understood.
<p>
Lynn, John, and Bill Ritchie
<br>
<hr>
<h2>History</h2>
For many years, I worked in the Computing Sciences Research Center
of Bell Labs. On October 2005, a reorganization redistributed this
group, and I'm now with the center called by
the slightly ungainly name of Convergence, Software and Computer Science
Laboratory (but still in the same office).
This experience has been more varied than it
might seem; here's some of the history:
<p>
<img src="bellsys.gif" alt="Old Bell System logo" hspace=30 align="left"><br>
When I joined in 1967, Bell Labs was a corporation jointly owned by
American Telephone and Telegraph Company and its subsidiary
Western Electric. Its official name was Bell Telephone Laboratories, Incorporated.
<p>
<img src="nbell.gif" alt="New Bell System logo" hspace=50 align="left"><br>
Soon after, Ken Thompson, together with me and
others, first started work on Unix.
Also soon after, AT&T, which still owned most of the Bell System,
updated its logo (I doubt the events were related).
The new logo just updated the image; corporate structure
remained the same. The material published by us during
the period up to 1984 used this
Bell logo and the name "Bell Laboratories."
<p>
<img src="att.gif" alt="AT&T logo" height=50 width=100 hspace=30 align="left"><br>
In 1984, AT&T, under a negotiated consent decree,
divested the local telephone companies
it had owned and in the process gave up the Bell logo
and the Bell name except in connection with Bell Laboratories.
Bell Telephone Laboratories Inc. was dissolved as a corporation
and became an integrated unit of AT&T.
We lost the Wehrmacht helmet and gained the Deathstar,
and now identified ourselves as working at "AT&T Bell Laboratories."
<p>
<img src="lu.gif" alt="Lucent logo" hspace=25 align="left"><br>
In 1996, AT&T (this time voluntarily) spun off its systems
and technology organizations into Lucent Technologies, while
AT&T kept the services business. Bell Labs
stayed mostly with Lucent, though some of our colleagues helped
form a new AT&T labs, much as some of us went to Bellcore in 1984.
The new corporate logo usually includes the line "Bell Labs Innovations."
<p>
<br>
<br>
<img src="alulogo.jpg" alt="Alcatel-Lucent logo" hspace=20 height=49 width=137 align="left">
<br>
Lucent and Alcatel merged as of Dec 1, 2006.
Another new name and logo! and still the same office.
<p>
Bell Labs has remained a remarkably good place to
do work that has enduring impact over the long run,
no matter what the company, the courts, the PR types
or upper management decide should
be our name and logo on a given day or year.
<h3>Some material</h3>
Various things I've been involved with
are available in HTML, PostScript or PDF.
Some are papers of mine or by others, some are just interesting
incunabula. They're organized by category.
<h2>
Unix papers and writings, approximately chronological
</h2>
<ul>
<p>
<li> <a href="1stEdman.html">Unix Programmer's Manual, First Edition (1971)</a>
Page scan or Postscript (via OCR) of life before pipes or grep were invented.
<p>
<li><a href="notes.html">Notes for a Unix talk</a> circa 1972
<p>
<li>`The Unix Time-sharing System,' the 1978 BSTJ update
of the 1974 C. ACM article by me and Ken Thompson
originally describing Unix:
<br><a href="cacm.html">browsable</a>,
or <a href="cacm.ps">PostScript</a>
or <a href="cacm.pdf">PDF</a>.
<p>
<li>`The Evolution of the Unix Time-sharing System,'
an account of developments during 1968-1973.
<br><a href="hist.html">browsable</a>,
or printable <a href="hist.ps">PostScript</a> or
<a href="hist.pdf">PDF</a>
<p>
<li><A HREF="firstport.html">A Memo</A> from 1976 that proposes
buying a machine to which to port Unix, and the kinds of changes that would be needed
in C to make this possible. Although the memo itself is
rather <i>pro forma</i>, it's important in Unix history.
<p>
<li> Bob Bowles found and scanned a <a href="unixad.html">Unix ad from 1981</a>.
See it now; it's not all that big. I found another, and
Vincent Guyot supplied a Xenix version.
<p>
<li>
Karl Kleine of Jena found and scanned an
early Unix license agreement, and also two
price lists for early 1980s systems.
See an <A href="licenses.html">introduction</A> here.
<p>
<li>The entire <a href="https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/7thEdMan/index.html">
Seventh Edition Manual</a> is available on-line,
with not only the man pages but all the papers.
(The sources for the entire system, plus earlier and some
later ones are also available; see the
<A href="complinks.html#oldunix">links</A> page.)
<p>
<li>
`Portability of C Programs and the UNIX System,'
by me and Steve Johnson is
available in several formats.
This link to <A href="portpapers.html">early portability</A> work collects not only
this paper (in various formats) but also related
papers by Richard Miller, Steve Johnson, Juris Reinfelds,
Tom London and John Reiser on 32V, as well as
later seminal work within Bell Labs
on a variety of machines.
<p>
<li>
`A Retrospective,' from AT&T Bell Laboratories
Technical Journal, 1978.
<a href="retroindex.html">This link</a> points to a short
description of the circumstances, with sublinks to renditions of the article.
<p>
<li>`A Stream Input/Output System', from AT&T Bell Laboratories
Technical Journal, 1984:
<br><a href="st.html">browsable</a>,
or printable <a href="st.ps">PostScript</a> or
<a href="st.pdf">PDF</a>
<p>
<li> I wrote a couple of papers
about experiences with <A href="cray.html">Unix on a Cray X/MP</A>.
The link is to an HTML page with a little background; it contains
sublinks to the papers.
<p>
<li> `Interprocess Communication in the Ninth Edition Unix System,'
with D. L. Presotto, from Software--Practice and Experience,
<b>19</b>, June 1990.
<br><a href="ipcpaper.html">browsable</a>,
or printable <a href="spe.ps">PostScript</a> or
<a href="spe.pdf">PDF</a>
<p>
<li>An <A HREF="picture.html">old picture</A> of Ken, me, and some PDP-11s.
From the company archives, with a little photointerpretation.
<p>
<li><A HREF="mdmpipe.html">Why Ken had to invent <b>|</b> </A>:
some partially enigmatic advice from Doug McIlroy that dates to 1964.
<p>
<li>
Some material from the Unix
<A HREF="http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/10thEdMan/index.html">
Tenth Edition Manual</A>, published in 1990. This was the last Unix manual
published by our group. The collection under the link is only a small
part of the whole two volumes, and contains a few documents describing
utilities that survived into <A HREF="https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/plan9/index.html">Plan 9</A>
but are not in its own manuals, notably <i>pic</i> and <i>tbl</i>.
Some are just neat, like <i>pico</i>.
</ul>
<h2>
C and its immediate ancestors
</h2>
<p>
<ul>
<li> <a href="bcpl.html">BCPL Reference Manual</a> by Martin Richards, dated July 1967.
The language described here supplied the basis for much of our own work and that
of others. The linked page discusses the circumstances, while
the files linked under it have the manual itself.
<p>
<li><a href="kbman.html">Users' Reference to B</a>, which describes
the B programming language; it is by Ken Thompson and describes
the PDP-11 version.
<p>
<li><a href="bintro.html">CSTR #8</a> also describes
the B programming language; it is for the GCOS version
on Honeywell equipment. It is by Johnson and Kernighan.
<p>
<li>Resurrection of two
<A href="primevalC.html">primeval C compilers</A> from 1972-73,
including source. You won't be able to compile it with
today's compilers, but the link points to someone who succeeded in reviving
one of them.
<p>
<li>The version of the
C Reference Manual
<a href="cman.ps">Postscript</a> (250KB) or
<a href="cman.pdf">PDF</a>, (79K)
that came with 6th Edition Unix (May 1975), in the second volume entitled
``Documents for Use With the Unix Time-sharing System''.
For completeness,
there are also versions of Kernighan's
tutorial on C, in <A href="ctut.ps">Postscript</A> or
<A href="ctut.pdf">PDF</A> format.
<p>
There is also a slightly earlier (January 1974) version of the C manual,
in the form of an uninterpreted PDF scan of a Bell Labs
Technical Memorandum, visible <A href="cman74.pdf"> here</A>,
if you can accommodate 1.9MB.
<p>
No updated version of this manual was distributed with
most machine readable versions of the 7th Edition,
since the first edition of the `white book'
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language">K&R</a>
was published about the same time. The tutorial was greatly
expanded into the bulk of the book,
and the manual became the book's Appendix A.
<p>
However, it turns out that the paper copies of the 7th Edition
manual
that we printed locally include not only what
became Appendix A of K&R 1, but also a page entitled
"Recent Changes to C", and I retyped this. I haven't
been able to track down the contemporary machine-readable
version (it's possible that some tapes were produced that
included it). This is available in
<A href="cchanges.ps">PostScript</A> or <A href="cchanges.pdf">PDF</A>
format.
<p>
The structure and even many bits of
wording of the manual survived into K&R I and thence into the ANSI/ISO standard
for the language.
<p>
<li>
A Bell Labs CS Tech. Report (#102) by Steve Johnson and me
discusses issues involved in designing a calling
sequence for C on various machines.
It is from 1981, and thus pre-ANSI,
but the issues haven't really changed. Available as
<A href="clcs.html">HTML</A>,
<A href="clcs.pdf">PDF</A>, or
<A href="clcs.ps">Postscript</A>.
<p>
<li>`The Development of the C Language', from HOPL II, 1993:
<br><a href="chist.html">browsable</a>,
or printable <a href="chist.ps">PostScript</a> or
<a href="chist.pdf">PDF</a>
<br>
Angelo de Oliveira kindly supplied a translation into
Portuguese of the paper; his own MS Word
version is <A href="chistPT.doc">here</A>, while
<A href="chistPT.html">this</A> is Word's rendition of
this into browsable HTML.
<p>
<li>
An <A href="hopl.html">HTML browsable transcript</A>
of the talk I gave at HOPL II, with its slides.
It's entitled "Five Little Languages and How They Grew"
and it is quite different from the Development paper referenced just above.
<p>
<li> `Variable-size Arrays in C,' a proposal of mine that appeared in
Journal of C Language Translation, but is not the approach adopted for the
1999 ISO C standard:
<br><a href="vararray.html">browsable</a>,
or printable <a href="vararray.ps">PostScript</a> or
<a href="vararray.pdf">PDF</a>.
<p>
<li> The
<A HREF="http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/belllabs-microsite-dritchie/cbook/index.html">The C Programming Language</A> book has a home page.
It has acquisition information and the current errata list,
and cover art from various translations.
</ul>
<h2>
Interesting other things: architecture, editors, adventures
</h2>
<ul>
<li> <a href="spacetravel.html">Thompson's Space Travel Game</a>, a graphical
entertainment that led Ken to find the PDP-7 that would become important.
<p>
<li> <a href="crypt.html">Dabbling in Cryptography</a>, in which the author finds himself
involved in stronger political forces and higher mathematical creativity than is his wont.
<p>
<p>
<li><A HREF="labscam.html">Labscam</A>: a story from 1989,
whose protagonists are a show-biz duo, Plan 9 geeks, and a Nobel laureate.
<p>
<li>Historical notes (and a manual) on
<a href="qed.html">QED</a>, the ancestor of the Unix
<b>ed</b> and <b>vi</b> editors.
<p>
<li><A HREF="vax.html">VAX over 20+ years</A>, our early
impression of Digital's architecture, with an assessment from Usenet
of 1988.
<p>
<li> Insider secrets: <a href="odd.html">Values of beeta will give rise to Dom!</a>
<p>
<li> A <A href="medal.html">Letter from Washington</A>,
an account of the experience of receiving the National Medal of
Technology.
<p>
<li>A <A href="ken-games.html">brief article</A>
I wrote for ICGA Journal, the publication of the International
Computer Games Association, recounting an appreciation of the
synergy between Ken Thompson's activities in chess, other games, and
systems. It includes a funny faked memo by Mike Lesk.
<p>
<li> <A href="bsdi/bsdisuit.html">
Some court papers</A>
from the lawsuit brought by USL against BSDI,
then the University of California, in the early 1990s about Unix
intellectual property.
These may be relevant today in view of SCO's
recent actions.
</ul>
<h2>
Plan 9 and Inferno
</h2>
<ul>
<li>The new, open-source edition of the
<A HREF="https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/plan9/index.html">Plan 9</A> system is available.
I contributed only a few bits and pieces to it, but did,
in effect, sign some paychecks to keep it going.
<p>
<li>
The system-structuring ideas of Plan 9 were adopted also by
the Inferno system, now distributed by
<A HREF="http://www.vitanuova.com">Vita Nuova</A>.
Again, this was more a matter of signing paychecks than
doing the work, though I did write about it.
</ul>
<h2>
Links I've gathered
</h2>
<p>
<ul>
<li> <A href="otherlives.html">Dennis Ritchie seems to have lives besides those recorded above</A>.
<p>
<li>Not only I, but also <A href="otherunix.html">UNIX®</A>
has lives far away, and I don't mean Linux or *BSD. See some examples.
<p>
<li> <A href="complinks.html">Links to sites</A> with Unix, C, and other
(generally older) historical material.
</ul>
<p>
<h2>Biography</h2>
A brief <a href="bigbio1st.html">biography</a>, in first person
instead of obituary style.
<h2>Bibliography</h2>
<a href="bib/dmr.bib"> bibtex format </a> or
<a href="bib/dmr.html"> html format </a>.
<p>
<hr>
<em>
Fiddled: May 2006 to add organization changes;
March 2002, to add the HOPL talk link,
July 2002 to add the C tutorial paper, October 2002
to add the ICGA paper,
January 2003 to add the Portability paper,
April 2003 to add the Kleine material, October 2003
for additional portability papers.
<br>
December 2006 to add new Alcatel-Lucent logo.
</em></body>
</HTML>
|
Dennis Ritchie Home Page
# Dennis M. Ritchie
## Location
* Dennis Ritchie
[Bell Labs](http://www.bell-labs.com/), Rm 2C-517
600 Mountain Ave.
Murray Hill, New Jersey 07974-0636, USA
* dmr@bell-labs.com
* +1 908-582-3770 *(office)*, +1 908-582-5857 *(fax)*
---
## In Memoriam
Dennis died in early October, 2011.
This is a note from his sister and brothers:
As Dennis's siblings, Lynn, John, and Bill Ritchie--on behalf of the entire Ritchie family--we wanted to convey to all of you how deeply moved, astonished, and appreciative we are of the loving tributes to Dennis that we have been reading. We can confirm what we keep hearing again and again:
Dennis was an unfailingly kind, sweet, unassuming, and generous brother--and of course a complete geek. He had a hilariously dry sense of humor, and a keen appreciation for life's absurdities--though his world view was entirely devoid of cynicism or mean-spiritedness.
We are terribly sad to have lost him, but touched beyond words to realize what a mark he made on the world, and how well his gentle personality--beyond his accomplishments--seems to be understood.
Lynn, John, and Bill Ritchie
---
## History
For many years, I worked in the Computing Sciences Research Center
of Bell Labs. On October 2005, a reorganization redistributed this
group, and I'm now with the center called by
the slightly ungainly name of Convergence, Software and Computer Science
Laboratory (but still in the same office).
This experience has been more varied than it
might seem; here's some of the history:
When I joined in 1967, Bell Labs was a corporation jointly owned by
American Telephone and Telegraph Company and its subsidiary
Western Electric. Its official name was Bell Telephone Laboratories, Incorporated.
Soon after, Ken Thompson, together with me and
others, first started work on Unix.
Also soon after, AT&T, which still owned most of the Bell System,
updated its logo (I doubt the events were related).
The new logo just updated the image; corporate structure
remained the same. The material published by us during
the period up to 1984 used this
Bell logo and the name "Bell Laboratories."
In 1984, AT&T, under a negotiated consent decree,
divested the local telephone companies
it had owned and in the process gave up the Bell logo
and the Bell name except in connection with Bell Laboratories.
Bell Telephone Laboratories Inc. was dissolved as a corporation
and became an integrated unit of AT&T.
We lost the Wehrmacht helmet and gained the Deathstar,
and now identified ourselves as working at "AT&T Bell Laboratories."
In 1996, AT&T (this time voluntarily) spun off its systems
and technology organizations into Lucent Technologies, while
AT&T kept the services business. Bell Labs
stayed mostly with Lucent, though some of our colleagues helped
form a new AT&T labs, much as some of us went to Bellcore in 1984.
The new corporate logo usually includes the line "Bell Labs Innovations."
Lucent and Alcatel merged as of Dec 1, 2006.
Another new name and logo! and still the same office.
Bell Labs has remained a remarkably good place to
do work that has enduring impact over the long run,
no matter what the company, the courts, the PR types
or upper management decide should
be our name and logo on a given day or year.
### Some material
Various things I've been involved with
are available in HTML, PostScript or PDF.
Some are papers of mine or by others, some are just interesting
incunabula. They're organized by category.
##
Unix papers and writings, approximately chronological
* [Unix Programmer's Manual, First Edition (1971)](1stEdman.html)
Page scan or Postscript (via OCR) of life before pipes or grep were invented.
* [Notes for a Unix talk](notes.html) circa 1972
* `The Unix Time-sharing System,' the 1978 BSTJ update
of the 1974 C. ACM article by me and Ken Thompson
originally describing Unix:
[browsable](cacm.html),
or [PostScript](cacm.ps)
or [PDF](cacm.pdf).
* `The Evolution of the Unix Time-sharing System,'
an account of developments during 1968-1973.
[browsable](hist.html),
or printable [PostScript](hist.ps) or
[PDF](hist.pdf)
* [A Memo](firstport.html) from 1976 that proposes
buying a machine to which to port Unix, and the kinds of changes that would be needed
in C to make this possible. Although the memo itself is
rather *pro forma*, it's important in Unix history.
* Bob Bowles found and scanned a [Unix ad from 1981](unixad.html).
See it now; it's not all that big. I found another, and
Vincent Guyot supplied a Xenix version.
* Karl Kleine of Jena found and scanned an
early Unix license agreement, and also two
price lists for early 1980s systems.
See an [introduction](licenses.html) here.
* The entire [Seventh Edition Manual](https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/7thEdMan/index.html) is available on-line,
with not only the man pages but all the papers.
(The sources for the entire system, plus earlier and some
later ones are also available; see the
[links](complinks.html#oldunix) page.)
* `Portability of C Programs and the UNIX System,'
by me and Steve Johnson is
available in several formats.
This link to [early portability](portpapers.html) work collects not only
this paper (in various formats) but also related
papers by Richard Miller, Steve Johnson, Juris Reinfelds,
Tom London and John Reiser on 32V, as well as
later seminal work within Bell Labs
on a variety of machines.
* `A Retrospective,' from AT&T Bell Laboratories
Technical Journal, 1978.
[This link](retroindex.html) points to a short
description of the circumstances, with sublinks to renditions of the article.
* `A Stream Input/Output System', from AT&T Bell Laboratories
Technical Journal, 1984:
[browsable](st.html),
or printable [PostScript](st.ps) or
[PDF](st.pdf)
* I wrote a couple of papers
about experiences with [Unix on a Cray X/MP](cray.html).
The link is to an HTML page with a little background; it contains
sublinks to the papers.
* `Interprocess Communication in the Ninth Edition Unix System,'
with D. L. Presotto, from Software--Practice and Experience,
**19**, June 1990.
[browsable](ipcpaper.html),
or printable [PostScript](spe.ps) or
[PDF](spe.pdf)
* An [old picture](picture.html) of Ken, me, and some PDP-11s.
From the company archives, with a little photointerpretation.
* [Why Ken had to invent **|**](mdmpipe.html):
some partially enigmatic advice from Doug McIlroy that dates to 1964.
* Some material from the Unix
[Tenth Edition Manual](http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/10thEdMan/index.html), published in 1990. This was the last Unix manual
published by our group. The collection under the link is only a small
part of the whole two volumes, and contains a few documents describing
utilities that survived into [Plan 9](https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/plan9/index.html)
but are not in its own manuals, notably *pic* and *tbl*.
Some are just neat, like *pico*.
##
C and its immediate ancestors
* [BCPL Reference Manual](bcpl.html) by Martin Richards, dated July 1967.
The language described here supplied the basis for much of our own work and that
of others. The linked page discusses the circumstances, while
the files linked under it have the manual itself.
* [Users' Reference to B](kbman.html), which describes
the B programming language; it is by Ken Thompson and describes
the PDP-11 version.
* [CSTR #8](bintro.html) also describes
the B programming language; it is for the GCOS version
on Honeywell equipment. It is by Johnson and Kernighan.
* Resurrection of two
[primeval C compilers](primevalC.html) from 1972-73,
including source. You won't be able to compile it with
today's compilers, but the link points to someone who succeeded in reviving
one of them.
* The version of the
C Reference Manual
[Postscript](cman.ps) (250KB) or
[PDF](cman.pdf), (79K)
that came with 6th Edition Unix (May 1975), in the second volume entitled
``Documents for Use With the Unix Time-sharing System''.
For completeness,
there are also versions of Kernighan's
tutorial on C, in [Postscript](ctut.ps) or
[PDF](ctut.pdf) format.
There is also a slightly earlier (January 1974) version of the C manual,
in the form of an uninterpreted PDF scan of a Bell Labs
Technical Memorandum, visible [here](cman74.pdf),
if you can accommodate 1.9MB.
No updated version of this manual was distributed with
most machine readable versions of the 7th Edition,
since the first edition of the `white book'
[K&R](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language)
was published about the same time. The tutorial was greatly
expanded into the bulk of the book,
and the manual became the book's Appendix A.
However, it turns out that the paper copies of the 7th Edition
manual
that we printed locally include not only what
became Appendix A of K&R 1, but also a page entitled
"Recent Changes to C", and I retyped this. I haven't
been able to track down the contemporary machine-readable
version (it's possible that some tapes were produced that
included it). This is available in
[PostScript](cchanges.ps) or [PDF](cchanges.pdf)
format.
The structure and even many bits of
wording of the manual survived into K&R I and thence into the ANSI/ISO standard
for the language.
* A Bell Labs CS Tech. Report (#102) by Steve Johnson and me
discusses issues involved in designing a calling
sequence for C on various machines.
It is from 1981, and thus pre-ANSI,
but the issues haven't really changed. Available as
[HTML](clcs.html),
[PDF](clcs.pdf), or
[Postscript](clcs.ps).
* `The Development of the C Language', from HOPL II, 1993:
[browsable](chist.html),
or printable [PostScript](chist.ps) or
[PDF](chist.pdf)
Angelo de Oliveira kindly supplied a translation into
Portuguese of the paper; his own MS Word
version is [here](chistPT.doc), while
[this](chistPT.html) is Word's rendition of
this into browsable HTML.
* An [HTML browsable transcript](hopl.html)
of the talk I gave at HOPL II, with its slides.
It's entitled "Five Little Languages and How They Grew"
and it is quite different from the Development paper referenced just above.
* `Variable-size Arrays in C,' a proposal of mine that appeared in
Journal of C Language Translation, but is not the approach adopted for the
1999 ISO C standard:
[browsable](vararray.html),
or printable [PostScript](vararray.ps) or
[PDF](vararray.pdf).
* The
[The C Programming Language](http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/belllabs-microsite-dritchie/cbook/index.html) book has a home page.
It has acquisition information and the current errata list,
and cover art from various translations.
##
Interesting other things: architecture, editors, adventures
* [Thompson's Space Travel Game](spacetravel.html), a graphical
entertainment that led Ken to find the PDP-7 that would become important.
* [Dabbling in Cryptography](crypt.html), in which the author finds himself
involved in stronger political forces and higher mathematical creativity than is his wont.
* [Labscam](labscam.html): a story from 1989,
whose protagonists are a show-biz duo, Plan 9 geeks, and a Nobel laureate.
* Historical notes (and a manual) on
[QED](qed.html), the ancestor of the Unix
**ed** and **vi** editors.
* [VAX over 20+ years](vax.html), our early
impression of Digital's architecture, with an assessment from Usenet
of 1988.
* Insider secrets: [Values of beeta will give rise to Dom!](odd.html)
* A [Letter from Washington](medal.html),
an account of the experience of receiving the National Medal of
Technology.
* A [brief article](ken-games.html)
I wrote for ICGA Journal, the publication of the International
Computer Games Association, recounting an appreciation of the
synergy between Ken Thompson's activities in chess, other games, and
systems. It includes a funny faked memo by Mike Lesk.
* [Some court papers](bsdi/bsdisuit.html)
from the lawsuit brought by USL against BSDI,
then the University of California, in the early 1990s about Unix
intellectual property.
These may be relevant today in view of SCO's
recent actions.
##
Plan 9 and Inferno
* The new, open-source edition of the
[Plan 9](https://s3.amazonaws.com/plan9-bell-labs/plan9/index.html) system is available.
I contributed only a few bits and pieces to it, but did,
in effect, sign some paychecks to keep it going.
* The system-structuring ideas of Plan 9 were adopted also by
the Inferno system, now distributed by
[Vita Nuova](http://www.vitanuova.com).
Again, this was more a matter of signing paychecks than
doing the work, though I did write about it.
##
Links I've gathered
* [Dennis Ritchie seems to have lives besides those recorded above](otherlives.html).
* Not only I, but also [UNIX®](otherunix.html)
has lives far away, and I don't mean Linux or \*BSD. See some examples.
* [Links to sites](complinks.html) with Unix, C, and other
(generally older) historical material.
## Biography
A brief [biography](bigbio1st.html), in first person
instead of obituary style.
## Bibliography
[bibtex format](bib/dmr.bib) or
[html format](bib/dmr.html) .
---
*Fiddled: May 2006 to add organization changes;
March 2002, to add the HOPL talk link,
July 2002 to add the C tutorial paper, October 2002
to add the ICGA paper,
January 2003 to add the Portability paper,
April 2003 to add the Kleine material, October 2003
for additional portability papers.
December 2006 to add new Alcatel-Lucent logo.*
| https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/ |
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta name="keyword"
content="telegraph, atlantic, cable, cyrus field, cableship, Atlantic Cable, Submarine Telegraphy, Atlantic Submarine Cable, Telegraph History" />
<meta name="keywords"
content="telegraph, atlantic, cable, cyrus field, cableship, Atlantic Cable, Submarine Telegraphy, Atlantic Submarine Cable, Telegraph History" />
<title>History of the Atlantic Cable & Submarine Telegraphy - Atlantic Cable Pioneers</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" /><style type="text/css">
<!--
body,td,th {
font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;
}
-->
</style>
<link href="../ac.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
</head>
<body background="../grey2bg.jpg">
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td><a href="https://ftldesign.com/"><img src="/escher.gif" alt="Escher.gif (426 bytes)"
width="64" height="54" border="0" /></a></td>
<td><p align="left"><font color="#FF0000" size="5">History of the Atlantic Cable & Undersea Communications</font><br />
<font color="#FF0000" size="4">from the first submarine cable of 1850 to the worldwide fiber optic network</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td height="70" colspan="2" align="right" valign="middle">
<span class="page_title">Cable Pioneers</span><br />
<span class="page_author">The men who started the cable industry</span></td>
</tr>
</table>
<table width="650" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" align="center">
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" colspan="2">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><img
src="../Projectors/projectors_small.jpg" width="600" height="469" /></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2">Daniel Huntington's
painting of the <a href="../Projectors/index.htm">meeting called by
Cyrus Field in 1854</a><br />
to organize the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top">
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" width="650"
cellpadding="2">
<tr>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>1.<a
href="../Projectors/projectors01.jpg">Peter Cooper</a><br />
(President)</small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>4.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors04.jpg">Marshall O. Roberts</a></small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>7.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors07.jpg">Moses Taylor<br />
</a> (Treasurer)</small></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>2.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors02.jpg">David D. Field</a></small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>5.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors05.jpg">Samuel F.B. Morse</a><br />
(Vice
President)</small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>8.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors08.jpg">Cyrus W. Field</a></small></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>3.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors03.jpg">Chandler White</a> <br />
(Secretary)</small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>6.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors06.jpg">Daniel Huntington</a></small></font></td>
<td width="33%" height="40" align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><small>9.
<a
href="../Projectors/projectors09.jpg">Wilson G. Hunt</a></small></font></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center"><table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JohnWBrett-i.jpg"><img src="JohnWBrett-i_s.jpg" width="244" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2">John W. Brett</font></p>
<p align="left"><font size="2">The brothers Brett proposed in 1845 to establish a general system of telegraphic communication for Britain, and in 1847 obtained a concession from the French Government to establish a cable between England and France.</font></p>
<p align="left" class="size12">Additional information may be found in this <a href="Brett/index.htm">comprehensive article on J.W. Brett</a> by Steven Roberts.</p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="JW-Brett.jpg"><img src="JW-Brett_s.jpg" width="275" height="93" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
<td align="center"><table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JacobBrett-i.jpg"><img src="JacobBrett-i_s.jpg" width="248" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="JBrett.htm">Jacob Brett</a></font></p>
<p align="left"><font size="2"> The Bretts' <a href="../Article/1850DoverCalais/index.htm">Channel cable of 1850</a> failed almost immediately, but a second attempt between Dover and Calais in 1851 proved to be a lasting success: the world's first commercially viable submarine telegraph cable. See this <a href="../Article/Brett/index.htm">1857 talk by J.W. Brett</a>.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"> </font><a href="Jacob-Brett.jpg"><img src="Jacob-Brett_s.jpg" width="275" height="81" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="../Books/1865 ATHistory/Field.jpg"><font size="2"><img src="Field_small.jpg" width="263" height="325" border="0" /></font></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="../Field/index.htm">Cyrus
W. Field</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">The chief instigator of the Atlantic
Cable project. After meeting <a href="Gisborne/index.htm">Frederic N. Gisborne</a> in 1854, Field
established the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company.
He crossed the Atlantic many times in pursuit of the enterprise
before the final success of the Atlantic Cable in 1866.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="CyrusWField.jpg"><img
src="CyrusWField_small.jpg" width="275" height="152" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%"> <a name="gisborne"></a>
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="Frederick-Gisborne-1859.jpg"><img src="Frederick-Gisborne-1859_s.jpg" width="257" height="325"></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="Gisborne/index.htm">Frederic N. Gisborne</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">Originator of the cross-Newfoundland
telegraph line. Gisborne met with the Bretts in England in 1852, and laid
North America's first submarine cable that year. He ran out of funds
in 1854, and was introduced to Cyrus Field. Shut out of the Atlantic
Cable project, Gisborne eventually became Superintendent of Government
Telegraphs in Canada.</font></p>
<p class="size12">See also this detailed <a href="Gisborne/index.htm">1886 biography</a> of Gisborne, and the full text of the <a href="https://collections.mun.ca/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/cns&CISOPTR=42947&REC=6">1851 journal</a> of his St. John's-Cape Ray telegraph route survey.</p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="FrederickGisborne.jpg"><img src="FrederickGisborne_s.jpg" width="275" height="138" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p> </p> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="PeterCooper-i2.jpg"><img src="PeterCooper-i2_s.jpg" width="236" height="325" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">Peter Cooper</font></p>
<p><font size="2">A New York industrialist, financier,
and philanthropist, Cooper was the first investor to join Cyrus
Field in the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="PeterCooper.jpg"><img
src="PeterCooper_small.jpg" width="275" height="125" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a
href="SamuelMorse-i.jpg"><img src="SamuelMorse-i_s.jpg" width="249"
height="325" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">Samuel F.B. Morse</font></p>
<p><font size="2">Developer of the telegraph in the United
States and an early proponent of the Atlantic Cable, Morse was recruited
to the cable project by Cyrus Field to add name recognition and
credibility to the enterprise.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="SamuelMorse.jpg"><img
src="SamuelMorse_small.jpg" width="275" height="93" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="GeorgeElliot-i-JCW.jpg"><img src="GeorgeElliot-i-JCW_s.jpg" width="267" height="325" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">George Elliot</font><br />
<font size="1">(Photo by <a href="../Article/Clifford/index.htm">Henry Clifford</a>, courtesy of Jacy Wall)</font></p>
<p><font size="2">Born in 1815 in Gateshead, the son
of a coal miner, George Elliot became a mining engineer and in 1840
a colliery owner. In partnership with Richard Glass he took over
the wire rope manufacturer Kuper and Company at Morden Wharf, East
Greenwich. The business was renamed Glass, Elliot and Company, and
began producing submarine cables.</font></p>
<p><font size="2"><a href="elliot.htm">Click here</a> for the 1879 <em>Vanity Fair</em> biography and Spy caricature of Sir George Elliot.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="GeorgeElliot.jpg"><img src="GeorgeElliot_s.jpg" width="275" height="125" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td height="330" align="center" valign="top"><a href="RichardGlass-i2.jpg"><img src="RichardGlass-i2_s.jpg" width="255" height="325"></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2">Richard Glass</font><br />
<font size="1">
Photo by <a href="../Article/Clifford/index.htm">Henry Clifford</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">Partner with George Elliot in the British
cable-making firm of Glass, Elliot, which made the 1857 and 1858
Atlantic cables and many others. The company merged with the Gutta
Percha Company in 1865 to form the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance
Company (Telcon), the contractor for the 1865 and 1866 Atlantic
cables. He was knighted in 1866 for his part in laying the Atlantic cables, and died in 1873 at the early age of 53.<br>
<a href="RichardGlass-i.jpg">Line drawing of Glass</a>.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="RichardGlass.jpg"><font size="2"><img
src="RichardGlass_small.jpg" width="275" height="120" border="0" /></font></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%" valign="top"><table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="Pender/John-Pender-Falk.jpg"><img src="Pender/John-Pender-Falk_s.jpg" width="236" height="325" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="../CableCos/CandW/Pender/index.htm">John Pender</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">An early investor in the Atlantic Cable
enterprise, Pender formed the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance
Company by merging Glass, Elliot & Co. and the Gutta Percha
Company, and became chairman of the new firm. The company laid the
1865/66 Atlantic cables and many subsequent cables, and Pender remained
a major force in the industry until <a href="penderobit.htm">his death
in 1896</a>.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="RichardGlass.jpg"></a><img src="JohnPender-s_s.jpg" width="275" height="88" /></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JohnBright-i.jpg"><img src="JohnBright-i_s.jpg" width="232" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2">John Bright</font></p>
<p><font size="2">A Manchester businessman,
orator, and politician, Bright was an investor (1856) in the first
Atlantic cable company.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JohnBright.jpg"><img src="JohnBright_s.jpg" width="275" height="101" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="WilloughbySmith-i.jpg"><img src="WilloughbySmith-i_s.jpg" width="263" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="Smith/index.htm">Willoughby Smith</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">One of the first cable "electricians",
Smith joined the Gutta Percha company in 1848 and worked on the
1850 Dover-Calais cable. He was head of the electrical department
on the 1865 and 1866 <i>Great Eastern</i> expeditions. Involved
in communications for most of his life, in 1891 Smith wrote the
book "<a href="../bibliography.htm#smith">The Rise and Extension
of Submarine Telegraphy</a>".</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="WilloughbySmith.jpg"></a><a href="WilloughbySmith-Russell.jpg"><img src="WilloughbySmith-Russell_s.jpg" width="275" height="126" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="306" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="WilliamThomson-i.jpg"><img src="WilliamThomson-i_s.jpg" width="221" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="Kelvin/index.htm">William Thomson (Lord Kelvin)</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">Scientific and engineering genius of
the 19th century, Thomson made many contributions to the technology
of submarine telegraphy, beginning with the early Atlantic cables,
and became a wealthy man as a result. He sailed on all five of the
Atlantic cable expeditions from 1857 to 1866.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="WilliamThomson.jpg"><img
src="WilliamThomson_small.jpg" width="275" height="92" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="CT-Bright-i.jpg"><img src="CT-Bright-i_s.jpg" width="261" height="325" border="0" /></a><br />
<font size="1">Image scan courtesy of William Breeze</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">Charles Tilston Bright</font></p>
<p><font size="2"> A prolific inventor, Bright was appointed
Engineer-in-Chief to the Atlantic Telegraph Company at the age of
24. Two years later he was responsible for the laying of the 1858
Atlantic Cable, for which he was knighted. Bright was also involved
with the Mediterranean cables the telegraph to India, and many other
cables.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="CT-Bright.jpg"><img src="CT-Bright_s.jpg" width="275" height="68" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="SamuelCanning-i.jpg"><img src="SamuelCanning-i_s.jpg" width="256" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">Samuel Canning</font></p>
<p><font size="2"> An engineer with Glass, Elliot, Canning
was consulted by Cyrus Field in 1856 during the planning of the
first Atlantic cable. Canning also represented the contractors,
the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance Company (successors to
Glass, Elliot), on the 1865 <i>Great Eastern</i> expedition.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="SamuelCanning.jpg"><font size="2"><img
src="SamuelCanning_small.jpg" width="275" height="138" border="0" /></font></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="WilliamHudson-i.jpg"><img
src="WilliamHudson-i_small.jpg" width="255" height="325" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2">Captain William L. Hudson</font></p>
<p><font size="2">A seasoned veteran of the US Navy,
having sailed with Charles Wilkes on the Exploring Expedition, Hudson
was captain of the <i><a href="../Cableships/Niagara/index.htm">Niagara</a></i> on the 1857 and 1858 cable expeditions.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="WilliamHudson.jpg"><img
src="WilliamHudson_small.jpg" width="275" height="117" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JamesAnderson-i.jpg"><img src="JamesAnderson-i_s.jpg" width="253" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"> <a href="Anderson/index.htm">James Anderson</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">One of the Cunard Company's top officers,
Anderson captained the <i>Great Eastern</i> on the 1865 and 1866
cable expeditions.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="JamesAnderson.jpg"><font size="2"><img
src="JamesAnderson_small.jpg" width="275" height="119" border="0" /></font></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center"><table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="DanielGooch-i.jpg"><img src="DanielGooch-i_s.jpg" width="244" height="325" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2">Daniel Gooch</font></p>
<p><font size="2">A leading railway engineer and associate
of Brunel, Gooch headed the company which bought the <i>Great Eastern</i> to use as a cableship. He sailed on many of the <i>Great Eastern</i> cable expeditions.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="DanielGooch.jpg"><font size="2"><img
src="DanielGooch_small.jpg" width="275" height="118" border="0" /></font></a></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
<td align="center"><table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><font size="2"><a href="WilliamRussell-i.jpg"><img
src="WilliamRussell-i_small.jpg" width="260" height="325" border="0" /></a></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><p align="center"><font size="2">William H. Russell</font></p>
<p><font size="2">A veteran journalist and war correspondent
for <i>The Times</i>, Russell sailed on the 1865 <i>Great Eastern</i> cable expedition and wrote the <a href="../Books/Russell/index.html">definitive
book</a> on the voyage.</font></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="WilliamHRussell.jpg"><img src="WilliamHRussell_s.jpg" width="275" height="144" border="0" /></a><br />
<font size="1">Signature image courtesy of Bill Glover</font></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td align="center" width="50%">
<table width="104" border="1" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="10">
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="../Books/Whitehouse/EOWW-Merveilles.jpg"><img src="../Books/Whitehouse/EOWW-Merveilles_s.jpg" width="260" height="328" /></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p align="center"><font size="2"><a href="../Books/Whitehouse/eoww.htm">Edward Orange Wildman Whitehouse</a></font></p>
<p><font size="2">"Wildman Whitehouse" was a surgeon by profession and an electrical experimenter by avocation. In 1856 he was appointed Electrician to the Atlantic Telegraph Company and was responsible for the testing of the 1857/58 cables, and for the design and operation of the equipment which would transmit the telegraph signals between Ireland and Newfoundland.</font></p> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" valign="top"><a href="../Books/Whitehouse/AG/EOWW-IET-Sig.jpg"><img src="../Books/Whitehouse/AG/EOWW-IET-Sig_s.jpg" width="275" height="66" border="0" /></a></td>
</tr>
</table> </td>
<td align="center" width="50%"> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td colspan="2"> </td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td colspan="2"><table width="85%" border="1" align="center" cellpadding="15" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td><p><font color="#006600" size="5">Other notable figures</font></p>
<blockquote>
<p><font><a href="Allan/index.htm">Thomas Allan</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></font></p>
<p><font><a href="Brett/index.htm">John W. Brett</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></font></p>
<p><font><a name="LClark"></a><a href="LatimerClark.htm">Latimer Clark</a></font></p>
<p><a href="Deane/index.htm"> John Conellan Deane</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></p>
<p><a href="Halpin/index.htm">Captain Robert Halpin</a> <span class="size14">by Bill Glover</span></p>
<p><a href="Holmes/index.htm">Nathaniel John Holmes</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></p>
<p><a href="Mullaly/index.htm">John Mullaly</a> <span class="size14">by David Fox</span></p>
<p><a href="Rowett/index.htm">Captain William Rowett</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></p>
<p><a href="Saunders/index.htm">Henry Saunders</a></p>
<p><a href="Saward/index.htm">George Saward</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></p>
<p><a href="Stewart/index.htm">Lieutenant-Colonel Patrick Stewart, R.E.</a></p>
<p><a href="Varley/index.htm">Cromwell F. Varley</a></p>
<p><a href="Weaver/index.htm">Henry Weaver</a> <span class="size14">by Steven Roberts</span></p>
<p><a href="Webb/index.htm">Frederick C. Webb</a></p>
</blockquote></td>
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
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|
History of the Atlantic Cable & Submarine Telegraphy - Atlantic Cable Pioneers
<!--
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| | |
| --- | --- |
| [Escher.gif (426 bytes)](https://ftldesign.com/) | History of the Atlantic Cable & Undersea Communications
from the first submarine cable of 1850 to the worldwide fiber optic network |
| Cable Pioneers
The men who started the cable industry |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Daniel Huntington's
painting of the [meeting called by
Cyrus Field in 1854](../Projectors/index.htm)
to organize the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company |
|
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 1.[Peter Cooper](../Projectors/projectors01.jpg)
(President) | 4.
[Marshall O. Roberts](../Projectors/projectors04.jpg) | 7.
[Moses Taylor](../Projectors/projectors07.jpg) (Treasurer) |
| 2.
[David D. Field](../Projectors/projectors02.jpg) | 5.
[Samuel F.B. Morse](../Projectors/projectors05.jpg)
(Vice
President) | 8.
[Cyrus W. Field](../Projectors/projectors08.jpg) |
| 3.
[Chandler White](../Projectors/projectors03.jpg)
(Secretary) | 6.
[Daniel Huntington](../Projectors/projectors06.jpg) | 9.
[Wilson G. Hunt](../Projectors/projectors09.jpg) |
|
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| John W. Brett
The brothers Brett proposed in 1845 to establish a general system of telegraphic communication for Britain, and in 1847 obtained a concession from the French Government to establish a cable between England and France.
Additional information may be found in this [comprehensive article on J.W. Brett](Brett/index.htm) by Steven Roberts. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Jacob Brett](JBrett.htm)
The Bretts' [Channel cable of 1850](../Article/1850DoverCalais/index.htm) failed almost immediately, but a second attempt between Dover and Calais in 1851 proved to be a lasting success: the world's first commercially viable submarine telegraph cable. See this [1857 talk by J.W. Brett](../Article/Brett/index.htm). |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Cyrus
W. Field](../Field/index.htm)
The chief instigator of the Atlantic
Cable project. After meeting [Frederic N. Gisborne](Gisborne/index.htm) in 1854, Field
established the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company.
He crossed the Atlantic many times in pursuit of the enterprise
before the final success of the Atlantic Cable in 1866. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Frederic N. Gisborne](Gisborne/index.htm)
Originator of the cross-Newfoundland
telegraph line. Gisborne met with the Bretts in England in 1852, and laid
North America's first submarine cable that year. He ran out of funds
in 1854, and was introduced to Cyrus Field. Shut out of the Atlantic
Cable project, Gisborne eventually became Superintendent of Government
Telegraphs in Canada.
See also this detailed [1886 biography](Gisborne/index.htm) of Gisborne, and the full text of the [1851 journal](https://collections.mun.ca/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/cns&CISOPTR=42947&REC=6) of his St. John's-Cape Ray telegraph route survey. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Peter Cooper
A New York industrialist, financier,
and philanthropist, Cooper was the first investor to join Cyrus
Field in the New York, Newfoundland and London Telegraph Company. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Samuel F.B. Morse
Developer of the telegraph in the United
States and an early proponent of the Atlantic Cable, Morse was recruited
to the cable project by Cyrus Field to add name recognition and
credibility to the enterprise. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| George Elliot
(Photo by [Henry Clifford](../Article/Clifford/index.htm), courtesy of Jacy Wall)
Born in 1815 in Gateshead, the son
of a coal miner, George Elliot became a mining engineer and in 1840
a colliery owner. In partnership with Richard Glass he took over
the wire rope manufacturer Kuper and Company at Morden Wharf, East
Greenwich. The business was renamed Glass, Elliot and Company, and
began producing submarine cables.
[Click here](elliot.htm) for the 1879 *Vanity Fair* biography and Spy caricature of Sir George Elliot. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Richard Glass
Photo by [Henry Clifford](../Article/Clifford/index.htm)
Partner with George Elliot in the British
cable-making firm of Glass, Elliot, which made the 1857 and 1858
Atlantic cables and many others. The company merged with the Gutta
Percha Company in 1865 to form the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance
Company (Telcon), the contractor for the 1865 and 1866 Atlantic
cables. He was knighted in 1866 for his part in laying the Atlantic cables, and died in 1873 at the early age of 53.
[Line drawing of Glass](RichardGlass-i.jpg). |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [John Pender](../CableCos/CandW/Pender/index.htm)
An early investor in the Atlantic Cable
enterprise, Pender formed the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance
Company by merging Glass, Elliot & Co. and the Gutta Percha
Company, and became chairman of the new firm. The company laid the
1865/66 Atlantic cables and many subsequent cables, and Pender remained
a major force in the industry until [his death
in 1896](penderobit.htm). |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| John Bright
A Manchester businessman,
orator, and politician, Bright was an investor (1856) in the first
Atlantic cable company. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Willoughby Smith](Smith/index.htm)
One of the first cable "electricians",
Smith joined the Gutta Percha company in 1848 and worked on the
1850 Dover-Calais cable. He was head of the electrical department
on the 1865 and 1866 *Great Eastern* expeditions. Involved
in communications for most of his life, in 1891 Smith wrote the
book "[The Rise and Extension
of Submarine Telegraphy](../bibliography.htm#smith)". |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [William Thomson (Lord Kelvin)](Kelvin/index.htm)
Scientific and engineering genius of
the 19th century, Thomson made many contributions to the technology
of submarine telegraphy, beginning with the early Atlantic cables,
and became a wealthy man as a result. He sailed on all five of the
Atlantic cable expeditions from 1857 to 1866. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Charles Tilston Bright
A prolific inventor, Bright was appointed
Engineer-in-Chief to the Atlantic Telegraph Company at the age of
24. Two years later he was responsible for the laying of the 1858
Atlantic Cable, for which he was knighted. Bright was also involved
with the Mediterranean cables the telegraph to India, and many other
cables. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Samuel Canning
An engineer with Glass, Elliot, Canning
was consulted by Cyrus Field in 1856 during the planning of the
first Atlantic cable. Canning also represented the contractors,
the Telegraph Construction and Maintenance Company (successors to
Glass, Elliot), on the 1865 *Great Eastern* expedition. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Captain William L. Hudson
A seasoned veteran of the US Navy,
having sailed with Charles Wilkes on the Exploring Expedition, Hudson
was captain of the *[Niagara](../Cableships/Niagara/index.htm)* on the 1857 and 1858 cable expeditions. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [James Anderson](Anderson/index.htm)
One of the Cunard Company's top officers,
Anderson captained the *Great Eastern* on the 1865 and 1866
cable expeditions. |
| |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| Daniel Gooch
A leading railway engineer and associate
of Brunel, Gooch headed the company which bought the *Great Eastern* to use as a cableship. He sailed on many of the *Great Eastern* cable expeditions. |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| William H. Russell
A veteran journalist and war correspondent
for *The Times*, Russell sailed on the 1865 *Great Eastern* cable expedition and wrote the [definitive
book](../Books/Russell/index.html) on the voyage. |
|
Signature image courtesy of Bill Glover |
|
|
| |
| --- |
| |
| [Edward Orange Wildman Whitehouse](../Books/Whitehouse/eoww.htm)
"Wildman Whitehouse" was a surgeon by profession and an electrical experimenter by avocation. In 1856 he was appointed Electrician to the Atlantic Telegraph Company and was responsible for the testing of the 1857/58 cables, and for the design and operation of the equipment which would transmit the telegraph signals between Ireland and Newfoundland. |
| |
| |
| |
|
| |
| --- |
| Other notable figures
[Thomas Allan](Allan/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[John W. Brett](Brett/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[Latimer Clark](LatimerClark.htm)
[John Conellan Deane](Deane/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[Captain Robert Halpin](Halpin/index.htm) by Bill Glover
[Nathaniel John Holmes](Holmes/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[John Mullaly](Mullaly/index.htm) by David Fox
[Captain William Rowett](Rowett/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[Henry Saunders](Saunders/index.htm)
[George Saward](Saward/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[Lieutenant-Colonel Patrick Stewart, R.E.](Stewart/index.htm)
[Cromwell F. Varley](Varley/index.htm)
[Henry Weaver](Weaver/index.htm) by Steven Roberts
[Frederick C. Webb](Webb/index.htm)
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<CENTER><H1><IMG SRC="https://web.archive.org/web/20091027001905/http://sg.geocities.com/kiatemail/gif/ICON_HEART.gif" WIDTH=40 HEIGHT=40>Love Match<IMG SRC="https://web.archive.org/web/20091027001905/http://sg.geocities.com/kiatemail/gif/ICON_HEART.gif" WIDTH=40 HEIGHT=40></H1></CENTER>
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<TABLE WIDTH=85% ALIGN=center>
<TR><TD>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#000000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">
Do this test and see which Backstreet Boy matches the best with you.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL"><FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">1.</FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL"> When you can grab a spare moment, you like to:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Do some shopping at the mall, then catch a movie.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Play every single video game you can get your hands on.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Shoot some hoops and/or get exercise in any way you can think of.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> Lift weights and brush up your water sports skills.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Toss the 'old pigskin' around, then catch a few waves.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">2.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">Your idea of a perfect meal is:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Fast food: going to MacDonalds and get some burgers and fries.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> The Italian approach: a large pizza topped with the works and shared with your best buds.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> The ol' family meal: macaroni and cheese, homemade the old-fashioned way<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D) </FONT>Chinese takeout: chicken fried rice, two egg rolls and a fortune cookie.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Fiesta!: a couple tacos, maybe some bean and cheese burritos and of course the chips and salsa.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">3.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">The movie you went to the theater ten times to see, rented a dozen more times and finally ended up buying was:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Pulp Fiction<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Aliens<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C) </FONT>School Ties<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E) </FONT>Top Gun<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">4.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">If you could choose any one instrument to play (or you already play one), it would be:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Saxophone<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Drums<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Trumpet<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> Guitar<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Piano<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">5.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">Heightwise, you like a guy to be:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Just above average<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Lean and long-limbed<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Short and sweet<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D) </FONT>Absolutely average<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E) </FONT>Tall and terrific<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">6.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">What you are attracted to in a guy:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> A funloving, outgoing hunky ham!<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> A thoughtful, funny, finelooking dude!<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> An active, happy, sporty stud!<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> A romantic homebody whose first priority is to please others.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> A quiet, reflecting, sensitive music lover.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">7.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">The closest description to you:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> Long-haired, long nailed, cheerful, humorous and relaxed.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Sweet, owner of a good heart and not a big fan of make-up.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C) </FONT>Intelligent, ambitious, athletic and trustworthy.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> Open, a communicator, easygoing and a lover of life.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Casual about clothes, but serius about life and relationships.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">8. </FONT><FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">Your idea of 'a perfect date' is:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> First catching the latest Dustin Hoffman flick, then shooting some pool.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Taking a motorboat ride, fishing and reading poetry.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Going on a long walk on the beach and watching the sun go down.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> A long conversation over a candlelit dinner.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Shooting hoops and then sitting down at the piano to play and write music.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">9.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">You most like:</FONT><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A) </FONT>Purple clothing and members of the opposite sex!<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Beavis and Butt-head and Nirvana music.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Boyz II Men and cats.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D)</FONT> Dancing and math<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> The color blue and being left alone.<BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">10.</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">You pet peeve:</FONT><BR><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">A)</FONT> People who take things too serious.<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">B)</FONT> Algebra<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">C)</FONT> Heights<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">D) </FONT>Dishonesty<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3 COLOR="#FF0000" FACE="COMIC SANS MS,ARIAL">E)</FONT> Discomfort<BR><BR><BR>
Now <A HREF="lovematchresults.html">go here </A>for the result of the test!
</FONT>
</TD></TR>
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BSB Love Match
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# Love Match
| |
| --- |
|
Do this test and see which Backstreet Boy matches the best with you.
1. When you can grab a spare moment, you like to:
A) Do some shopping at the mall, then catch a movie.
B) Play every single video game you can get your hands on.
C) Shoot some hoops and/or get exercise in any way you can think of.
D) Lift weights and brush up your water sports skills.
E) Toss the 'old pigskin' around, then catch a few waves.
2. Your idea of a perfect meal is:
A) Fast food: going to MacDonalds and get some burgers and fries.
B) The Italian approach: a large pizza topped with the works and shared with your best buds.
C) The ol' family meal: macaroni and cheese, homemade the old-fashioned way
D) Chinese takeout: chicken fried rice, two egg rolls and a fortune cookie.
E) Fiesta!: a couple tacos, maybe some bean and cheese burritos and of course the chips and salsa.
3. The movie you went to the theater ten times to see, rented a dozen more times and finally ended up buying was:
A) Pulp Fiction
B) Aliens
C) School Ties
D) Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
E) Top Gun
4. If you could choose any one instrument to play (or you already play one), it would be:
A) Saxophone
B) Drums
C) Trumpet
D) Guitar
E) Piano
5. Heightwise, you like a guy to be:
A) Just above average
B) Lean and long-limbed
C) Short and sweet
D) Absolutely average
E) Tall and terrific
6. What you are attracted to in a guy:
A) A funloving, outgoing hunky ham!
B) A thoughtful, funny, finelooking dude!
C) An active, happy, sporty stud!
D) A romantic homebody whose first priority is to please others.
E) A quiet, reflecting, sensitive music lover.
7. The closest description to you:
A) Long-haired, long nailed, cheerful, humorous and relaxed.
B) Sweet, owner of a good heart and not a big fan of make-up.
C) Intelligent, ambitious, athletic and trustworthy.
D) Open, a communicator, easygoing and a lover of life.
E) Casual about clothes, but serius about life and relationships.
8. Your idea of 'a perfect date' is:
A) First catching the latest Dustin Hoffman flick, then shooting some pool.
B) Taking a motorboat ride, fishing and reading poetry.
C) Going on a long walk on the beach and watching the sun go down.
D) A long conversation over a candlelit dinner.
E) Shooting hoops and then sitting down at the piano to play and write music.
9. You most like:
A) Purple clothing and members of the opposite sex!
B) Beavis and Butt-head and Nirvana music.
C) Boyz II Men and cats.
D) Dancing and math
E) The color blue and being left alone.
10. You pet peeve:
A) People who take things too serious.
B) Algebra
C) Heights
D) Dishonesty
E) Discomfort
Now [go here](lovematchresults.html) for the result of the test!
|
| https://emailmyheart.neocities.org/lovematch |
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<AREA shape="poly" coords="421,175,416,178,409,201,414,213,403,216,398,225,403,229,397,238,402,251,412,256,426,255,425,277,419,296,426,326,458,341,509,312,516,269,511,228,470,196,430,192" href="afe.shtml" alt="Eastern Africa" title="Eastern Africa">
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<AREA shape="poly" coords="386,1,392,55,386,71,378,78,379,86,373,97,360,98,371,114,389,108,416,105,439,112,435,99,430,88,439,83,456,83,456,76,472,71,492,76,518,86,534,84,539,80,571,88,582,86,579,78,604,85,615,89,621,100,623,107,640,98,661,95,670,72,691,50,691,2" href="eue.shtml" alt="Eastern Europe" title="Eastern Europe">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="492,122,487,119,477,121,465,125,454,121,448,120,441,114,419,104,387,108,385,109,392,131,403,132,409,125,427,122,439,143,473,158,473,149,471,144,485,141" href="asw.shtml" alt="Western Asia" title="Western Asia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="517,90,506,102,506,109,496,116,492,123,500,121,492,121,485,115,467,124,450,119,441,107,436,97,430,86,439,84,456,82,456,77,476,71" href="asc.shtml" alt="Central Asia" title="Central Asia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="518,217,496,212,473,158,473,145,484,139,493,121,500,122,510,125,512,136,539,146,546,148,552,144,553,151,549,166,554,186,560,204" href="ass.shtml" alt="Southern Asia" title="Southern Asia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="665,97,668,134,626,168,618,169,590,178,583,165,579,160,571,164,567,164,561,153,553,146,546,146,513,133,507,127,497,115,508,109,508,102,522,88,545,85,572,89,585,87,584,80,591,81,615,91,624,106,639,97" href="ase.shtml" alt="Eastern Asia" title="Eastern Asia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="642,195,672,225,669,254,631,260,608,272,549,265,560,203,549,168,554,150,560,152,567,164,579,162,590,179,621,169" href="asse.shtml" alt="South East Asia" title="South East Asia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="664,366,765,272,748,240,674,227,669,253,633,257,581,286,590,354" href="osme.shtml" alt="Melanesia" title="Melanesia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="667,373,667,401,797,399,798,204,742,198,725,232,753,243,765,270,749,301" href="poli.shtml" alt="Polinesia" title="Polinesia">
<AREA shape="poly" coords="706,233,650,203,633,171,670,134,749,127,799,131,796,201,736,197" href="micro.shtml" alt="Micronesia" title="Micronesia">
<AREA shape="default">
</MAP>
<p><a href="hm.htm">photographs on our long honeymoon</a> from 11may2007 to 11aug2011</p>
If you find my mistake, please teach me by a mail.
<br>
This site is not a free material site. Use of a photograph is a charge.<br>
The minimum price will be about 30€ per sheet.<br>
</div>
<div id="footer"><br>
<script async src="//pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js"></script>
<!-- gallery ã¬ã¹ãã³ã·ã -->
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<br><br>Copyright (c) 1999-2018 MATSUMOTO Kazuto, All rights reserved.
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World Travel Gallery
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* [Home](/en/)
+ [Route map](/en/map.shtml)
+ [Travel History](/en/e_history.shtml)
+ [Mail](/en/mail.htm)
* ASIA
+ [East](/en/ase.shtml)
+ [SouthEast](/en/asse.shtml)
+ [South](/en/ass.shtml)
+ West
- [CentralWest](/en/asw.shtml)
- [Arab](/en/arab.shtml)
+ [Central](/en/asc.shtml)
* EUROPE
+ [East](/en/eue.shtml)
+ [West](/en/euw.shtml)
+ [South](/en/eus.shtml)
+ [Central](/en/euc.shtml)
+ [North](/en/eun.shtml)
* AFRICA
+ [North](/en/afn.shtml)
+ [West](/en/afw.shtml)
+ [South](/en/afs.shtml)
+ [East](/en/afe.shtml)
+ [Central](/en/afc.shtml)
* AMERICA
+ [North](/en/amn.shtml)
+ [Centarl](/en/amc.shtml)
+ [Caribian](/en/amcr.shtml)
+ South
- [NorthernSouth](/en/ams.shtml)
- [SouthernSouth](/en/amss.shtml)
* OCEANIA
+ [Melanesia](/en/osme.shtml)
+ [Polinesia](/en/poli.shtml)
+ [Micronesia](/en/micro.shtml)
* [ANTARCTICA](/gallery_am/antarctica/antaen.shtml)
* Link
+ [Japanese](/gallery.shtml)
+ [French](/fr/)
+ [Food](http://ndish.com "National Dish")
# World Travel Gallery
## Presents from a traveler who visited all countries in the world!
There are over 10,000 photographs in the site.
"All countries in the world" means 246 countries for me.
All photographs in this site were taken during my travels or my wife's travels.
[photographs on our long honeymoon](hm.htm) from 11may2007 to 11aug2011
If you find my mistake, please teach me by a mail.
This site is not a free material site. Use of a photograph is a charge.
The minimum price will be about 30€ per sheet.
(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});
Copyright (c) 1999-2018 MATSUMOTO Kazuto, All rights reserved.
| https://tabisite.com/en/ |
<HTML><HEAD>
<TITLE>The Cave</TITLE>
<owner_name="G. Pichowsky, Journey"></HEAD>
<!- g05aa ->
<BODY BACKGROUND="GIF/g_k_dflt.gif">
<A NAME="Top">
<!- THE CAVE GRAPHIC ->
<CENTER>
<IMG SRC="GIF/banr_cv1.gif" HEIGHT=60 WIDTH=468>
</CENTER>
<!- THE MAGICIAN WELCOMES YOU ->
<IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aa.gif" ALIGN="bottom"><B>
Welcome:</B> Wo/man has always used intuition in the struggle
for survival. We have explored many strange territories in our search
for understanding. In <I>The Cave</I> we continue this quest into other
realities.</A>
<P><HR>
<!- WHAT'S NEW SECTION ->
<H2><B><I>What's <IMG SRC="GIF/new.gif" ALT=[New!] HEIGHT=17 WIDTH=37>?</I></B></H2>
<DL>
<DD>Planning a trip to Glastonbury, England? Check out our
<A HREF="g20ac.html"><B>favorite tour guide</B></A>.
<P>
</DL>
<HR>
<!- HORIZONTAL SET OF ICONS ->
<CENTER>
<TABLE><TR>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER" WIDTH=85><A HREF="g05ag.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aad.gif" ALT="[SHAM]"></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Shamanism</FONT></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER" WIDTH=85><A HREF="g05ah.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aaa.gif" ALT="[CELT]"></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Celtic</FONT></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER" WIDTH=85><A HREF="g05aj.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aac.gif" ALT="[NATIV]"></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Native</FONT></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER" WIDTH=85><A HREF="g05ae.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_m10aa.gif" ALT="[LIBR]" BORDER=0></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Cave</FONT></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER" WIDTH=85><A HREF="index.html#ButtonArea"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_index.gif" ALT="[LITE]" BORDER=0></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Welcome</FONT></TD>
</TR></TABLE>
</CENTER><HR><P>
<!- COMMENTS ABOVE VERTICAL LIST OF ICONS WITH DESCRIPTIONS ->
<DL><DT><B>Areas to visit</B></DT>
<DD><I>Here we slip quietly into the dark regions of the mind where we understand in symbols.
You carefully make your way down a narrow path cut into the face of the cliff, emerging onto
a rocky beach. In a small cave, an old man holds up a lantern. He examines you carefully.
Then, "There are many paths. See there the symbols cut into the wall. Press one to begin your
journey."</I>
</DL><P>
<!- VERTICAL LIST OF ICONS WITH DESCRIPTIONS ->
<TABLE CELLPADDING=2>
<TR><TD><A HREF="g05ag.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aad.gif" ALIGN="left" HEIGHT=56 WIDTH=49><B>
Shamanism</B></A>. Since the dawn, Shamanism has enabled man to explore his territory from a
distance as well as to dig into the depths of his own inner landscape. From Hunter to Healer,
Shamanism has been one of man's greatest skills.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="g05ah.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aaa.gif" ALIGN="left" HEIGHT=56 WIDTH=49><B>
Celtic Studies</B></A>. From Western Europe come the Celts with their own very distinct view
of the world. Look here to learn about ancient Gods and Goddesses, Faeries, and
more.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="http://asatru.org/"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aae.gif" ALIGN="left" HEIGHT=56
WIDTH=49><B> German/Nordic Studies</B></A>. The homepage of the Asatru religion -- Asatru
means Faith in the Aesir and the Vanir -- best known as the Gods and Goddesses of the Old
Norse legends. There is information about the religion and <I>The Ring of Troth</I>, the
public organization of Asatru. They list other locations covering the Celtic, Germanic, and
Nordic Cultures. If your interested in languages, definitely go here. How about the Mead
Makers Page? Whet your appetite?</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="http://www.opencenter.org"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aac.gif" ALIGN="left" HEIGHT=56
WIDTH=49><B> The New York Open Center Homepage</B></A>. Located in the heart of Soho in New
York City, surrounded by some of New York's finest art galleries, restaurants and shops.
Within the Center is an an excellent bookstore and a Wellness bodywork center. Their Index
Course Guide includes the Arts, Astrology, Bodywork, Chinese Health, Religions, Creativity,
Dance, Death & Dying, Goddess Spirituality, Holistic Health, Martial Arts, Meditation, Music,
Nursing, Parenting, Psychology, Sacred Arts, Self-development, Sexuality, Shamanism,
Society/Ecology/Science, Spiritual Inquiry & Practice, Storytelling, Tarot, and Theatre, and
more. This writer has had an excellent experience with the Center, taking many courses there
over the years.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="http://www.speakeasy.org/newtimes"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aac.gif" ALIGN="left"
HEIGHT=56 WIDTH=49><B> The New Times Newspaper</B></A>. Based in Seattle, the paper offers
information that helps readers with personal and planetary growth. From astrology and
holistic health to recovery issues and peace, they provide a wide range of topics to
explore.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="g05aj.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g05aac.gif" ALIGN="left" HEIGHT=56 WIDTH=49><B>
Native American</B></A>. Consider a workshop with Native American Teachers or visit some
Native American homepages.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="g05ae.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_m10aa.gif" ALIGN="left" BORDER=0 ALT="Libr"><B>The Cave
Library</B></A>. This is the main Library for The Cave. Listings of books, tapes, magazines,
and jumps to other sources on the WWW.</TD></TR>
<TR><TD><A HREF="index.html#ButtonArea"><IMG SRC="GIF/B_index.gif" ALIGN="left" BORDER=0><B>Return to
The Lighthouse</B></A>.</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<!- END OF VERTICAL LIST OF ICONS WITH DESCRIPTIONS ->
<P>
<A HREF="#Top">Return to the Top</A>.
<BR>
<HR><P>
<H5>
<A HREF="g20aa.html"><IMG SRC="GIF/b_g20aa.gif" ALIGN="bottom" ALT=[Curator] HEIGHT=56 WIDTH=49> About the Curator</A>.<BR>
Copyright © 1996-2004 G. Pichowsky.<BR>
</H5>
</BODY>
</HTML>
|
The Cave
 **Welcome:** Wo/man has always used intuition in the struggle
for survival. We have explored many strange territories in our search
for understanding. In *The Cave* we continue this quest into other
realities.
---
## ***What's [New!]?***
Planning a trip to Glastonbury, England? Check out our
[**favorite tour guide**](g20ac.html).
---
| | | | | |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| [[SHAM]](g05ag.html)
Shamanism | [[CELT]](g05ah.html)
Celtic | [[NATIV]](g05aj.html)
Native | [[LIBR]](g05ae.html)
Cave | [[LITE]](index.html#ButtonArea)
Welcome |
---
**Areas to visit**
*Here we slip quietly into the dark regions of the mind where we understand in symbols.
You carefully make your way down a narrow path cut into the face of the cliff, emerging onto
a rocky beach. In a small cave, an old man holds up a lantern. He examines you carefully.
Then, "There are many paths. See there the symbols cut into the wall. Press one to begin your
journey."*
| |
| --- |
| [**Shamanism**](g05ag.html). Since the dawn, Shamanism has enabled man to explore his territory from a
distance as well as to dig into the depths of his own inner landscape. From Hunter to Healer,
Shamanism has been one of man's greatest skills. |
| [**Celtic Studies**](g05ah.html). From Western Europe come the Celts with their own very distinct view
of the world. Look here to learn about ancient Gods and Goddesses, Faeries, and
more. |
| [**German/Nordic Studies**](http://asatru.org/). The homepage of the Asatru religion -- Asatru
means Faith in the Aesir and the Vanir -- best known as the Gods and Goddesses of the Old
Norse legends. There is information about the religion and *The Ring of Troth*, the
public organization of Asatru. They list other locations covering the Celtic, Germanic, and
Nordic Cultures. If your interested in languages, definitely go here. How about the Mead
Makers Page? Whet your appetite? |
| [**The New York Open Center Homepage**](http://www.opencenter.org). Located in the heart of Soho in New
York City, surrounded by some of New York's finest art galleries, restaurants and shops.
Within the Center is an an excellent bookstore and a Wellness bodywork center. Their Index
Course Guide includes the Arts, Astrology, Bodywork, Chinese Health, Religions, Creativity,
Dance, Death & Dying, Goddess Spirituality, Holistic Health, Martial Arts, Meditation, Music,
Nursing, Parenting, Psychology, Sacred Arts, Self-development, Sexuality, Shamanism,
Society/Ecology/Science, Spiritual Inquiry & Practice, Storytelling, Tarot, and Theatre, and
more. This writer has had an excellent experience with the Center, taking many courses there
over the years. |
| [**The New Times Newspaper**](http://www.speakeasy.org/newtimes). Based in Seattle, the paper offers
information that helps readers with personal and planetary growth. From astrology and
holistic health to recovery issues and peace, they provide a wide range of topics to
explore. |
| [**Native American**](g05aj.html). Consider a workshop with Native American Teachers or visit some
Native American homepages. |
| [Libr**The Cave
Library**](g05ae.html). This is the main Library for The Cave. Listings of books, tapes, magazines,
and jumps to other sources on the WWW. |
| [**Return to
The Lighthouse**](index.html#ButtonArea). |
[Return to the Top](#Top).
---
#####
[[Curator] About the Curator](g20aa.html).
Copyright © 1996-2004 G. Pichowsky.
| http://www.magere.com/g05aa.html |
<html>
<head>
<meta name="description" content="Home repair tips/advice, Memory Aid, Quilts, photography, pictures, cameras, geocaching, Balloons, SPAM, Egg Cups">
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<title>InfoMagic, Quilts, Balloons and Home Repair & Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Help</title>
</head>
<body background="images/WhiteMarble.gif" text="#000080" link="#0000FF" vlink="#551A8B" alink="#FF0000" bgcolor="#c0c0c0">
<h1 align="center"><font color="#800000">Potpourri</font></h1>
<p align="center"><br>
</p>
<h2 align="center"><strong><font color="#800000">Click here to learn about my
memory aid</font></strong></h2>
<h2 align="center"><strong><font color="#ffffff"><a href="InfoMagic/"><i>
<font color="#FF0000">InfoMagic Extra</font></i></a></font></strong></h2>
<h3 align="center"><strong><font color="#800000">The Infotastic Instant Recall
Program</font></strong><font color="#800000"> </font></h3>
<h3 align="center"><img border="0" src="photolessons/redball.gif" align="top" width="20" height="20"><a href="photolessons/index.htm"><img border="0" src="photolessons/Animation13.gif" width="646" height="27"></a><img border="0" src="photolessons/redball.gif" align="top" width="20" height="20"></h3>
<h2 align="center"><a href="http://factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair">Home Repair Tips</a><br>
<font size="3">The best and most visited privately operated home maintenance site on the web</font><a href="http://factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair"><br>
</a></h2>
<p align="center"><font color="#008080"><b><a href="bland.htm">
<font color="#008080">This page was added for the friends who complain my
webpages are too bland</font></a></b></font></p>
<h2 align="center">
<br wp="br2"><i><a href="http://www.factsfacts.com/quilts">Quilts</a></i></h2>
<h2 align="center"><i><a href="my_pictures.htm">Some
of My Photographs</a></i></h2>
<p align="center"><font style="font-size: 15pt; font-weight: 700">
<a href="DSLR">Should You Buy a DSLR?</a></font></p>
<p align="center"><b><font style="font-size: 16pt">
<a href="geocaching/index.htm">Why yes, I Geocache</a></font></b><br>
I also do <strong> <a href="letterboxing/">Letterboxing</a>,
<a href="benchmarking">Benchmarking</a></strong>,
<strong> <a href="postcrossing/">
Postcrossing</a>,
<a href="http://factsfacts.com/geocachingsoft/shutterspotting.htm">
ShutterSpotting</a> & <a href="HistoricalMarkers">Hunt Historical Markers</a></strong></p>
<p align="center"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-weight: 700">
<a href="ShuttleFlyover">The Last Space Shuttle Flyover</a></span></p>
<p align="center"><span style="font-weight: 700; font-size: 16pt">
<a href="BlueAngelsFlyover.htm">One (that's 1) poor picture of the Blue Angels Flyover</a></span></p>
<p align="center"><span style="font-size: 16pt"><b><a href="TreeCarvings">Hurricane Ike Tree Sculptures</a></b></span></p>
<p align="center"><span style="font-size: 16pt"><b>
<a href="http://factsfacts.com/FortDavis/">Fort Davis</a></b></span></p>
<h3 align="center"><a href="hummers/ThumbIndex.htm">Hummingbirds</a></h3>
<p align="center"><b><font size="4"><a href="movies.htm">My Favorite Movies</a></font></b></p>
<h3 align="center"><a href="EggCups/index.htm">More Than You Wanted to Know
About Egg Cups</a></h3>
<p align="center"><b><font size="4"><a href="VintageCars">Vintage Cars on
display at Houston's Fine Arts Museum</a></font></b></p>
<p align="center"><b><a href="Dogs.htm"><font size="4">Dogs</font></a></b></p>
<h3 align="center"><a href="ClearLake/ClearLake.htm">Clear Lake Area Info</a></h3>
<p align="center"><a href="ballunar/Ballunar2002/P8250389.htm">
<img border="0" src="images/NeighborThumb.jpg" width="67" height="80"></a></p>
<p align="center"><b><font size="4"><a href="ballunar/index.htm">Photos from
NASA-Clear Lake Ballunar Festival</a></font></b></p>
<p align="center"> </p>
<p align="center"><font size="4"><b><a href="misc">More Miscellaneous Stuff</a></b></font><br>
</p>
<p align="center">
<a href="JavaScript:hwlfj()"><img src="images/mailbox.gif" alt="" border="0" width="50" height="50"></a>
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You must enable JavaScript to contact me.</em></NOSCRIPT>
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<p align="center">
<a href="http://t.extreme-dm.com/?login=iamjim"
target="_top"><img src="http://t1.extreme-dm.com/i.gif"
name="EXim" border="0" height="38" width="41"
alt="eXTReMe Tracker"></img></a>
<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript1.2"><!--
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EXd.write("<img src=http://e1.extreme-dm.com",
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InfoMagic, Quilts, Balloons and Home Repair & Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Help
# Potpourri
## **Click here to learn about my
memory aid**
## **[*InfoMagic Extra*](InfoMagic/)**
### **The Infotastic Instant Recall
Program**
###
## [Home Repair Tips](http://factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair)
The best and most visited privately operated home maintenance site on the web
**[This page was added for the friends who complain my
webpages are too bland](bland.htm)**
##
*[Quilts](http://www.factsfacts.com/quilts)*
## *[Some
of My Photographs](my_pictures.htm)*
[Should You Buy a DSLR?](DSLR)
**[Why yes, I Geocache](geocaching/index.htm)**
I also do **[Letterboxing](letterboxing/),
[Benchmarking](benchmarking)**,
**[Postcrossing](postcrossing/),
[ShutterSpotting](http://factsfacts.com/geocachingsoft/shutterspotting.htm) & [Hunt Historical Markers](HistoricalMarkers)**
[The Last Space Shuttle Flyover](ShuttleFlyover)
[One (that's 1) poor picture of the Blue Angels Flyover](BlueAngelsFlyover.htm)
**[Hurricane Ike Tree Sculptures](TreeCarvings)**
**[Fort Davis](http://factsfacts.com/FortDavis/)**
### [Hummingbirds](hummers/ThumbIndex.htm)
**[My Favorite Movies](movies.htm)**
### [More Than You Wanted to Know
About Egg Cups](EggCups/index.htm)
**[Vintage Cars on
display at Houston's Fine Arts Museum](VintageCars)**
**[Dogs](Dogs.htm)**
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<p>Illinois Central Train #5 with E9A 4041 in command waits for its late afternoon departure
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In recent months, the Krambles-Peterson Photo Archives has been an outstanding resource of
vintage images and many highly informative, well-written photo essays. Art Peterson's willingness
to share that knowledge base, insight and photo library is greatly appreciated. This month,
he has contributed two additional photo essays; the first is a visit to Chicago's long-lost
<a href="ICstn-Chi.HTML">Illinois Central Terminal.</a> The second is a brief look at the
<a href="Ill_Traction.HTML"> Illinois Traction network,</a> both essays include never before
published photos.
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For a total change of pace, we also take look at very early <a href="University Dynos.HTML">
locomotive dynamometer test facilities which were designed and built by two major midwest
universities.</a> Here again many of the photos were provided by Art Peterson.
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<B>Future Profiles:</B>
<ul>
<li>Early Dynamometer Cars
<li>Fort Street Union Depot in Detroit
<li>Great Northern Train Station in Spokane
</li></ul>
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<br>
<center><font color="#333333">** Table of Contents **</font></center>
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<td width=27% bgcolor="#220022" valign=top><div>
<font size=+3 color=red><i> Rosters</i></font><font size=+3>
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<li> <a href="INDEXRGL.html"><font color="#ffffff">Regional</font></a>
<li> <a href="INDEXSL.html"><font color="#ffffff">Short Line</font></a>
<li> <a href="INDEXindus-AZ.html"><font color="#ffffff">Industrials</font></a>
<li> <a href="INDEXPASS.html"><font color="#ffffff">Passenger</font></a>
<li> <a href="INDEXFF.html"><font color="#ffffff">Fallen Flag</font></a>
<li> <a href="INDEXLSRS.html"><font color="#ffffff">Leasing Companies</font></a>
<li> <a href="State-Based.html"><font color="#ffffff">State-based Rosters</font></a>
</li>
<!--<li> <a href="INDEXindus-AZ.html"><font color="#ffffff">Industrials</font></a> -->
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<Td width=26% bgcolor="#220022" valign=top><div>
<font size=+3 color=red><i> Features</i></font><font size=+3>
<li> <a href="Celebs.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Celebrity Locomotives</font></a>
<li> <a href="Remember.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Remember When</font></a>
<li> <a href="Hot_Spots.HTML"><font color="ffffff">Yesterday's Hotspots</font></a>
<li> <a href="Critterz.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Critter Notebook</font></a>
<li> <a href="LocoSpot.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Locomotive Spotlight</font></a>
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<td width=27% bgcolor="#220022" valign=top><div>
<font size=+3 color=red><i>Builder Data</i></font><font size=+3>
<li> <a href="Alco_Mainmenu.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Alco Notebook</font></a>
<li> <a href="BLW_Mainmenu.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Baldwin Notebook</font></a>
<li> <a href="E.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">EMD Notebook</font></a>
<li> <a href="FM_Mainmenu.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Fairbanks Notebook</font></a>
<li><a href="GE_Mainmenu.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">GE Notebook</font></a>
<li><a href="Catenary.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Catenary</font></a>
<li><a href="RRarchives-1.HTML"</ul><font color="#ffffff">RR Document Archives</font></a>
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<font color="#333333">Blank </font>
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<td width=50% valign=top><center><font size=+3 color=red><i>Extra Board</i></center></font><font size=+3>
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<li> <a href="MilitaryLocos.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">U.S. Military & Government Locos </font></a></li>
<li> <a href="INDEXmuseum.html"><font color="#ffffff">Museums </font></a></li>
<li> <a href="INDEXTOUR.html"><font color="#ffffff">Tourist / Excursion Lines </font></a>
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<li> <a href="General.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">General Reference Information</font></a>
<li> <a href="Superintendent.HTML"><font color="#ffffff">Superintendent's Desk</font></a></li>
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<th width=50%><center><font size=+3><i>Next Month</i></font><p>
<img src="TripleCrwn.jpg" width=500><p></center><div>
<font color=red><font color="#ffffff">A Legacy of the Bonner Rail-Wagon</font></td>
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<FONT COLOR="#ffffff"> THE DIESEL SHOP: Home to First & Second Generation Locomotives and Motive Power Rosters</A> </FONT></B></TD></TR>
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The Diesel Shop
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| The Diesel ShopServing The Railfan
Community since 1994 |
| --- |
|
Illinois Central Train #5 with E9A 4041 in command waits for its late afternoon departure
time.(George Hamlin photo)
|
| |
| --- |
| this milestone.
In recent months, the Krambles-Peterson Photo Archives has been an outstanding resource of
vintage images and many highly informative, well-written photo essays. Art Peterson's willingness
to share that knowledge base, insight and photo library is greatly appreciated. This month,
he has contributed two additional photo essays; the first is a visit to Chicago's long-lost
[Illinois Central Terminal.](ICstn-Chi.HTML) The second is a brief look at the
[Illinois Traction network,](Ill_Traction.HTML) both essays include never before
published photos.
For a total change of pace, we also take look at very early [locomotive dynamometer test facilities which were designed and built by two major midwest
universities.](University Dynos.HTML) Here again many of the photos were provided by Art Peterson.
Lastly, please remember to be safe when trackside!
-- R. Craig
|
|
**Future Profiles:**
* Early Dynamometer Cars
* Fort Street Union Depot in Detroit
* Great Northern Train Station in Spokane
|
| *Ready Track:* [New Listings / Major Updates](RDYtrack.HTML) |
| --- |
\*\* Table of Contents \*\*
| | | |
| --- | --- | --- |
|
*Rosters*
- [Class One](INDEXCLSS.html)- [Regional](INDEXRGL.html)- [Short Line](INDEXSL.html)- [Industrials](INDEXindus-AZ.html)- [Passenger](INDEXPASS.html)- [Fallen Flag](INDEXFF.html)- [Leasing Companies](INDEXLSRS.html)- [State-based Rosters](State-Based.html)
|
*Features*
- [Celebrity Locomotives](Celebs.HTML)- [Remember When](Remember.HTML)- [Yesterday's Hotspots](Hot_Spots.HTML)- [Critter Notebook](Critterz.HTML)- [Locomotive Spotlight](LocoSpot.HTML)
|
*Builder Data*
- [Alco Notebook](Alco_Mainmenu.HTML)- [Baldwin Notebook](BLW_Mainmenu.HTML)- [EMD Notebook](E.HTML)- [Fairbanks Notebook](FM_Mainmenu.HTML)- [GE Notebook](GE_Mainmenu.HTML)- [Catenary](Catenary.HTML)- [RR Document Archives](RRarchives-1.HTML)
|
Blank
| | |
| --- | --- |
| *Extra Board*
- [U.S. Military & Government Locos](MilitaryLocos.HTML)
- [Museums](INDEXmuseum.html)
- [Tourist / Excursion Lines](INDEXTOUR.html) - [Beyond North American Shores](INDEXInterRails.HTML)- [General Reference Information](General.HTML)- [Superintendent's Desk](Superintendent.HTML)
| *Next Month*
A Legacy of the Bonner Rail-Wagon
|
| |
| --- |
| Blank |
| **THE DIESEL SHOP: Home to First & Second Generation Locomotives and Motive Power Rosters** |
| **[E-mail Address](Contact.HTML)** |
| http://www.thedieselshop.us/ |
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>The Sense of Taste</title>
</head><body>
<h1 align=center>The Sense of Taste</h1>
<p>Taste is the ability to respond to dissolved molecules and ions called <b>tastants</b>. </p>
<p>Humans detect taste with <b>taste receptor cells</b>. These are clustered in <b>taste buds</b> and scattered in <a href="#TasteReceptorsInOtherLocations">other areas of the body</a>. Each taste bud has a pore that opens out to the surface of the tongue enabling molecules and ions taken into the mouth to reach the receptor cells inside. </p>
<img src="TasteBud.jpg" alt="" width="117" height="228" align="right">
There are <b>five primary taste sensations</b>:
<ul><li><a href="#salty">salty</a>
<li><a href="#sour">sour</a>
<li><a href="#sweet">sweet</a>
<li><a href="#bitter">bitter</a>
<li><a href="#Umami">umami</a></ul>
<h2>Properties of the taste system.</h2>
<ul><li>A single taste <b>bud</b> contains 50–100 <b>taste cells</b> representing <b>all 5</b> taste sensations (so the classic textbook pictures showing separate taste areas on the tongue are wrong).
<li>Each taste cell has <b>receptors</b> on its <a href="../J/Junctions.html">apical</a> surface. These are <a href="../M/MembraneProteins.gif">transmembrane proteins</a> which
<ul><li>admit the ions that give rise to the sensation of salty;
<li>bind to the molecules that give rise to the sensations of sweet, bitter, and umami.
</ul>
<li>A single taste cell seems to be restricted to expressing only a single type of receptor (except for bitter receptors).
<li>A stimulated taste receptor cell triggers action potentials in a nearby <a href="../N/Neurons.html#Sensory_neurons">sensory neuron</a> leading back to the brain.
<li>However, a single sensory neuron can be connected to several taste cells in each of several different taste buds.
<li>The sensation of taste — like all sensations — resides in the brain [<a href="#hard-wired">evidence</a>].
<li>And in mice, at least, the sensory neurons for four of the tastes (not sour) transmit their information to four discrete areas of the brain.<!--Sci 9/2/11-->
</ul>
<h2><a name="salty">Salty</a></h2>
<p>
In mice, perhaps humans, the receptor for table salt (NaCl) is an ion channel that allows sodium ions (Na<sup>+</sup>) to enter directly into the cell depolarizing it and triggering action potentials in a nearby sensory neuron.
</p>
In lab animals, and perhaps in humans, the hormone <a href="../A/Adrenals.html#aldosterone">aldosterone</a> increases the number of these salt receptors. This makes good biological sense:
<ul><li>The main function of aldosterone is to maintain normal sodium levels in the body.
<li>An increased sensitivity to sodium in its food would help an animal suffering from sodium deficiency (often a problem for ungulates like cattle and deer).</ul>
<h2><a name="sour">Sour</a></h2>
<p>
In mice, and probably humans, specialized taste receptor cells detect the protons (H<sup>+</sup>) liberated by sour substances (<a href="../A/Acids_Bases.html">acids</a>). The protons enter the cell through a transmembrane channel lowering the intracellular pH and triggering action potentials.
</p>
<h2><a name="sweet">Sweet</a></h2>
Sweet substances (like table sugar — <a href="../C/Carbohydrates.html#disaccharides">sucrose</a>) bind to <b><a href="../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs">G-protein-coupled receptors</a></b> (<b>GPCRs</b>) at the cell surface.
<ul><li>Each receptor contains 2 subunits designated <b>T1R2</b> and <b>T1R3</b> (also known as TAS1R2 and TAS1R3 respectively) and is
<li>coupled to <b><a href="../G/G_Proteins.html">G proteins</a></b>.
<li>The complex of G proteins has been named <b><a name="gustducin">gustducin</a></b> because of its similarity in structure and action to the <b>transducin</b> that plays such an essential role in <a href="../V/Vision.html#Rod_Vision">rod vision</a>.
<li>Activation of gustducin triggers a cascade of intracellular reactions:
<ul><li>production of the second messengers <a href="../S/Second_messengers.html#IP3_DAG">inositol trisphosphate (IP3) and diacylglycerol (DAG)</a> which
<li>releases intracellular stores of Ca<sup>++</sup> which
<li>allows in the influx of Na<sup>+</sup> ions depolarizing the cell and causing the
<li>release of ATP, which
<li>triggers action potentials in a nearby sensory neuron.</ul>
</ul>
<p>The hormone <a href="../L/Leptin.html">leptin</a> inhibits sweet cells by opening their K<sup>+</sup> channels. This hyperpolarizes the cell making the generation of action potentials more difficult. Could leptin, which is secreted by fat cells, be a signal to cut down on sweets?</p>
<h2><a name="bitter">Bitter</a></h2>
<p>
The binding of substances with a bitter taste, e.g., quinine, phenylthiocarbamide [PTC], also takes place on <b><a href="../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs">G-protein-coupled receptors</a></b> that are coupled to gustducin and the signaling cascade is the same as for sweet (and umami).
</p>
<p>
Humans have genes encoding 25 different bitter receptors (<b>T2R</b>s or <b>TAS2R</b>s), and each taste cell responsive to bitter expresses a number (4–11) of these genes. (This is in sharp contrast to the system in olfaction where a single odor-detecting cell expresses only a single type of odor receptor.)
</p>
<p>
Despite this — and still unexplained — a single taste cell seems to respond to certain bitter-tasting molecules in preference to others.
</p>
<a name="hard-wired"></a>
<p>
The sensation of taste — like all sensations — resides in the brain. Transgenic mice that
</p>
<ul><li>express T2Rs in cells that normally express T1Rs (sweet) respond to bitter substances as though they were sweet;
<li>express a receptor for a tasteless substance in cells that normally express T2Rs (bitter) are repelled by the tasteless compound.
</ul>
<p>
So it is the activation of hard-wired neurons that determines the sensation of taste, not the molecules nor the receptors themselves.
</p>
<h2><a name="Umami">Umami</a></h2>
<p>
Umami is the response to salts of <a href ="../A/Asp_glu.gif">glutamic acid</a> — like <b>monosodium glutamate</b> (<b>MSG</b>) a flavor enhancer used in many processed foods and in many Asian dishes. Processed meats and cheeses (proteins) also contain glutamate.
</p>
The binding of amino acids, including glutamic acid, takes place on <b><a href="../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs">G-protein-coupled receptors</a></b> that are coupled to heterodimers of the protein subunits <b>T1R1</b> and <b>T1R3</b>. The signaling cascade that follows is the same as it is for sweet and bitter.
<h2><a name="TasteReceptorsInOtherLocations">Taste Receptors in Other Locations</a></h2>
Taste receptors have been found in several other places in the body. Examples:
<ul><li>Bitter receptors (T2Rs) are found on the cilia and smooth muscle cells of the trachea and bronchi [<a href="../L/LungCancer.html">View</a>] where they probably serve to expel inhaled irritants;
<li>Sweet receptors (T1Rs) are found in cells of the duodenum. When sugars reach the duodenum, the cells respond by releasing <a href="../G/GutHormones.html#incretins">incretins</a>. These cause the beta cells of the pancreas to increase the release of insulin.
<li>In mice, receptors that detect fat and amino acids are found on the cells of the small intestine. When ingested food arrives, these initiate signals (mediated by <a href="../G/GutHormones.html#cck">cholecystokinin</a>, CCK) in the vagus nerves leading back to the brain.
</ul>
So the function of "taste" receptors appears to be the detection of chemicals in the environment — a broader function than simply taste.
<br><br>
<table border=1><tr>
<td><a href="../W/Welcome.html">Welcome&Next Search</a></td></tr></table>
<hr>
18 November 2022
</body>
</html>
|
The Sense of Taste
# The Sense of Taste
Taste is the ability to respond to dissolved molecules and ions called **tastants**.
Humans detect taste with **taste receptor cells**. These are clustered in **taste buds** and scattered in [other areas of the body](#TasteReceptorsInOtherLocations). Each taste bud has a pore that opens out to the surface of the tongue enabling molecules and ions taken into the mouth to reach the receptor cells inside.
There are **five primary taste sensations**:
* [salty](#salty)* [sour](#sour)* [sweet](#sweet)* [bitter](#bitter)* [umami](#Umami)
## Properties of the taste system.
* A single taste **bud** contains 50–100 **taste cells** representing **all 5** taste sensations (so the classic textbook pictures showing separate taste areas on the tongue are wrong).
* Each taste cell has **receptors** on its [apical](../J/Junctions.html) surface. These are [transmembrane proteins](../M/MembraneProteins.gif) which
+ admit the ions that give rise to the sensation of salty;
+ bind to the molecules that give rise to the sensations of sweet, bitter, and umami.* A single taste cell seems to be restricted to expressing only a single type of receptor (except for bitter receptors).
* A stimulated taste receptor cell triggers action potentials in a nearby [sensory neuron](../N/Neurons.html#Sensory_neurons) leading back to the brain.
* However, a single sensory neuron can be connected to several taste cells in each of several different taste buds.
* The sensation of taste — like all sensations — resides in the brain [[evidence](#hard-wired)].
* And in mice, at least, the sensory neurons for four of the tastes (not sour) transmit their information to four discrete areas of the brain.
## Salty
In mice, perhaps humans, the receptor for table salt (NaCl) is an ion channel that allows sodium ions (Na+) to enter directly into the cell depolarizing it and triggering action potentials in a nearby sensory neuron.
In lab animals, and perhaps in humans, the hormone [aldosterone](../A/Adrenals.html#aldosterone) increases the number of these salt receptors. This makes good biological sense:
* The main function of aldosterone is to maintain normal sodium levels in the body.
* An increased sensitivity to sodium in its food would help an animal suffering from sodium deficiency (often a problem for ungulates like cattle and deer).
## Sour
In mice, and probably humans, specialized taste receptor cells detect the protons (H+) liberated by sour substances ([acids](../A/Acids_Bases.html)). The protons enter the cell through a transmembrane channel lowering the intracellular pH and triggering action potentials.
## Sweet
Sweet substances (like table sugar — [sucrose](../C/Carbohydrates.html#disaccharides)) bind to **[G-protein-coupled receptors](../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs)** (**GPCRs**) at the cell surface.
* Each receptor contains 2 subunits designated **T1R2** and **T1R3** (also known as TAS1R2 and TAS1R3 respectively) and is
* coupled to **[G proteins](../G/G_Proteins.html)**.
* The complex of G proteins has been named **gustducin** because of its similarity in structure and action to the **transducin** that plays such an essential role in [rod vision](../V/Vision.html#Rod_Vision).
* Activation of gustducin triggers a cascade of intracellular reactions:
+ production of the second messengers [inositol trisphosphate (IP3) and diacylglycerol (DAG)](../S/Second_messengers.html#IP3_DAG) which
+ releases intracellular stores of Ca++ which
+ allows in the influx of Na+ ions depolarizing the cell and causing the
+ release of ATP, which
+ triggers action potentials in a nearby sensory neuron.
The hormone [leptin](../L/Leptin.html) inhibits sweet cells by opening their K+ channels. This hyperpolarizes the cell making the generation of action potentials more difficult. Could leptin, which is secreted by fat cells, be a signal to cut down on sweets?
## Bitter
The binding of substances with a bitter taste, e.g., quinine, phenylthiocarbamide [PTC], also takes place on **[G-protein-coupled receptors](../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs)** that are coupled to gustducin and the signaling cascade is the same as for sweet (and umami).
Humans have genes encoding 25 different bitter receptors (**T2R**s or **TAS2R**s), and each taste cell responsive to bitter expresses a number (4–11) of these genes. (This is in sharp contrast to the system in olfaction where a single odor-detecting cell expresses only a single type of odor receptor.)
Despite this — and still unexplained — a single taste cell seems to respond to certain bitter-tasting molecules in preference to others.
The sensation of taste — like all sensations — resides in the brain. Transgenic mice that
* express T2Rs in cells that normally express T1Rs (sweet) respond to bitter substances as though they were sweet;
* express a receptor for a tasteless substance in cells that normally express T2Rs (bitter) are repelled by the tasteless compound.
So it is the activation of hard-wired neurons that determines the sensation of taste, not the molecules nor the receptors themselves.
## Umami
Umami is the response to salts of [glutamic acid](../A/Asp_glu.gif) — like **monosodium glutamate** (**MSG**) a flavor enhancer used in many processed foods and in many Asian dishes. Processed meats and cheeses (proteins) also contain glutamate.
The binding of amino acids, including glutamic acid, takes place on **[G-protein-coupled receptors](../C/CellSignaling.html#GPCRs)** that are coupled to heterodimers of the protein subunits **T1R1** and **T1R3**. The signaling cascade that follows is the same as it is for sweet and bitter.
## Taste Receptors in Other Locations
Taste receptors have been found in several other places in the body. Examples:
* Bitter receptors (T2Rs) are found on the cilia and smooth muscle cells of the trachea and bronchi [[View](../L/LungCancer.html)] where they probably serve to expel inhaled irritants;
* Sweet receptors (T1Rs) are found in cells of the duodenum. When sugars reach the duodenum, the cells respond by releasing [incretins](../G/GutHormones.html#incretins). These cause the beta cells of the pancreas to increase the release of insulin.
* In mice, receptors that detect fat and amino acids are found on the cells of the small intestine. When ingested food arrives, these initiate signals (mediated by [cholecystokinin](../G/GutHormones.html#cck), CCK) in the vagus nerves leading back to the brain.
So the function of "taste" receptors appears to be the detection of chemicals in the environment — a broader function than simply taste.
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18 November 2022
| https://www.biology-pages.info/T/Taste.html |
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<td valign="top" width="140" bordercolor="#FF0000"
bordercolordark="#FF0000" bordercolorlight="#FF0000"><h5><a
href="index.html">HOME</a><br>
<a href="new.html">WHAT'S NEW</a><br>
<a href="games.html">THE GAMES</a><br>
<a href="characters.html">CHARACTERS</a><br>
<a href="trivia.html">TRIVIA</a><br>
<a href="music.html">MUSIC</a><br>
<a href="artwork.html">ARTWORK</a><br>
<a href="fanfic.html">FAN FICTION</a><br>
<a href="stuff.html">MISCELLANEOUS</a><br>
<a href="emulation.html">EMULATION</a><br>
<a href="faqs.html">FAQ's</a><br>
<a href="credits.html">CREDITS</a><br>
<a href="links.html">LINK TO WM</a><br>
<a href="helpwanted.html">HELP WANTED</a><br>
<a href="about.html">ABOUT WM</a></h5>
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</center></div><h3 align="center"><b><i>THE GAMES</i></b></h3>
<ul>
<h3 align="left"><b><i>Official Games:</i></b></h3>
<h4><li><a href="arcade.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (arcade)</li>
<li><a href="turbo.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (Turbografx-16)</li>
<li><a href="marty.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (FM Towns)</li>
<li><a href="windows.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="handheld.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (LCD handheld)</li>
<li><a href="famicom.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti</i></a> (Famicom)</li>
<li><a href="genesis.html"><i>Splatterhouse 2</i></a> (Sega Genesis)</li>
<li><a href="genesis2.html"><i>Splatterhouse 3</i></a> (Sega Genesis)</li>
<li><a href="2010.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (PlayStation 3/Xbox 360)</li>
<li><a href="iphone.html"><i>Splatterhouse</i></a> (Wireless Phones)</li></h4></p>
<h3 align="left"><b><i>Fangames:</i></b></h3>
<h4><li><a href="1-dotm.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Deception of the Mask</i></a> (PC/Dreamcast)</li>
<li><a href="1-jth.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Journey Through Hell</i></a> (PC/Dreamcast)</li>
<li><a href="1-btl.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Back to Light</i></a> (PC/Dreamcast)</li>
<li><a href="torgo.html"><i>"Manos" The Revenge of Torgo</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="shooterhouse.html"><i>Shooterhouse</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="sh2k3.html"><i>Splatterhouse: 2k3</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="splat3d.html"><i>Splatterhouse 3D</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="splat3d-2.html"><i>Return To Splatterhouse 3D</i></a> (PC)</li>
<li><a href="nsh-info.html"><i>Namco Super Heroes</i></a> (PC) <img src="new.gif" width="40" height="10"></li>
<li><a href="fangames.html">The Graveyard</a></li></p>
<h3 align="left"><b><i>ROMhacks:</i></b></h3>
<h4><li><a href="chrome.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Chrome</i></a></li>
<li><a href="evildead.html"><i>Evil Dead: Ash Lives!</i></a></li>
<li><a href="wanpaku_dx.html"><i>Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti DX</i></a></li>
<li><a href="sh2maskhack.html"><i>Splatterhouse 2</i> "classic mask" Rick and color hack</a></li></p>
<h3 align="left"><b><i>Defunct Fangames:</i></b></h3>
This is a list of fangames that have disappeared from the internet over the last decade. If anyone has any information about them, feel free to contact me.</p>
<li><i>Living Hell</i> (PC)</li>
<li><i>Splatterfaith</i> (Flash game)</li>
<li><i>Stringanime's Splatterhouse</i> (Flash game)</li>
<li><i>Splatterhouse 4</i> (Yoyo Games)</li></h4>
</ul>
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</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
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West Mansion: The Splatterhouse Homepage - The Games
| |
| --- |
| |
| [HOME](index.html)
[WHAT'S NEW](new.html)
[THE GAMES](games.html)
[CHARACTERS](characters.html)
[TRIVIA](trivia.html)
[MUSIC](music.html)
[ARTWORK](artwork.html)
[FAN FICTION](fanfic.html)
[MISCELLANEOUS](stuff.html)
[EMULATION](emulation.html)
[FAQ's](faqs.html)
[CREDITS](credits.html)
[LINK TO WM](links.html)
[HELP WANTED](helpwanted.html)
[ABOUT WM](about.html)
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***THE GAMES******Official Games:***
* [*Splatterhouse*](arcade.html) (arcade)
* [*Splatterhouse*](turbo.html) (Turbografx-16)
* [*Splatterhouse*](marty.html) (FM Towns)
* [*Splatterhouse*](windows.html) (PC)
* [*Splatterhouse*](handheld.html) (LCD handheld)
* [*Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti*](famicom.html) (Famicom)
* [*Splatterhouse 2*](genesis.html) (Sega Genesis)
* [*Splatterhouse 3*](genesis2.html) (Sega Genesis)
* [*Splatterhouse*](2010.html) (PlayStation 3/Xbox 360)
* [*Splatterhouse*](iphone.html) (Wireless Phones)
***Fangames:***
* [*Splatterhouse: Deception of the Mask*](1-dotm.html) (PC/Dreamcast)
* [*Splatterhouse: Journey Through Hell*](1-jth.html) (PC/Dreamcast)
* [*Splatterhouse: Back to Light*](1-btl.html) (PC/Dreamcast)
* [*"Manos" The Revenge of Torgo*](torgo.html) (PC)
* [*Shooterhouse*](shooterhouse.html) (PC)
* [*Splatterhouse: 2k3*](sh2k3.html) (PC)
* [*Splatterhouse 3D*](splat3d.html) (PC)
* [*Return To Splatterhouse 3D*](splat3d-2.html) (PC)
* [*Namco Super Heroes*](nsh-info.html) (PC)
* [The Graveyard](fangames.html)
***ROMhacks:***
* [*Splatterhouse: Chrome*](chrome.html)
* [*Evil Dead: Ash Lives!*](evildead.html)
* [*Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti DX*](wanpaku_dx.html)
* [*Splatterhouse 2* "classic mask" Rick and color hack](sh2maskhack.html)
***Defunct Fangames:***
This is a list of fangames that have disappeared from the internet over the last decade. If anyone has any information about them, feel free to contact me.
* *Living Hell* (PC)
* *Splatterfaith* (Flash game)
* *Stringanime's Splatterhouse* (Flash game)
* *Splatterhouse 4* (Yoyo Games)
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| https://splatterhouse.kontek.net/games.html |