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Massive Email Bombs Target .Gov Addresses - ryanlol
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/08/massive-email-bombs-target-gov-addresses/
======
ryanlol
This is hilarious, a single individual can easily cripple email usage for the
entirety of the US government.
HOWTO:
Step 1) Download a bunch of publicly leaked databases, i.e.
linkedin.thecthulhu.com
Step 2) Extract .gov emails (~300k from the linkedin dump alone)
Step 3) Find a bunch of mailing lists off of google and write a script to
automatically subscribe to them, some sites make this particularly easy by
letting you subscribe to hundreds at a time.
Step 4) Fire away, tons of government employees will be having a really shitty
time trying to read their emails from there on and IT departments everywhere
will be swamped with complaints for the foreseeable future.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Snower – funny iOS app to make videos with snow effect - yarodya
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/snower/id1179291695?mt=8
======
yarodya
Need feedback about our recently released app. Make it snow on your video.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Test can show if the speed of light has changed - lucodibidil
https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/27/test-for-change-in-speed-of-light/
======
wcoenen
1 meter is defined as the distance travelled by light in 1 / 299,792,458
seconds. Doesn't this mean that "light slowing down" would be
indistinguishable from "space expanding"?
------
oceanswave
Continuous Intrgration for the universe. Interesting.
~~~
euyyn
Well it doesn't really tell whether it's changed from a moment ago. Rather
whether it was much faster when the cosmic microwave background radiation was
emitted, almost at the beginning of the Universe.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The fight to keep the internet free and open for everyone - mikece
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191025-the-fight-to-keep-the-internet-free-and-open-for-everyone
======
K0SM0S
> this “network of networks”, the free and open online world envisioned by
> early pioneers is under attack
This is a dire topic. But I think we have it backwards when we consider the
"network of networks" as a high-level construct (social, economic, etc.) like
for instance we refer to "factories" or "catering delivery".
I think we need to take a big step back to first principles and build up our
model piece by piece based on the simplest facts.
The "network of networks", be it neutral, is a 'dumb medium', like air. It
just _is_ , _does_ , period. It does not filter, think, it just transmits
whatever. Like air conveys sound, like we breathe it, air is air and does what
air does. You do not restrict the medium, it makes no sense (object does not
implement that method!), rather you confine it, you limit its flow.
This is even before "the public thing", a Respublica, for we have no choice
but to share the same air on this planet. For now, at least.
Enter the other component, physically a ground or "territory", in network
terms "zones", for lack of a better term — a set of rule-defined network
spaces, a 'country' in networkland.
Enter segregated spaces and filtering (in/out, gates and windows, gatekeeping,
restricted areas, walls, etc). Essentially "buildings" from a physical
standpoint. These things are 'private', removed from the 'public' space.
This is my LAN, this is Facebook, this is every "network" in the "network of
_networkS_ ". When you 'enter' that private space, you are bound to the rules
of the tenant. Just like you would at a friend's place, at Disneyland, at work
and in the streets of your country. Rules, everywhere, that you are bound to
follow if you roam the space they define. Cross some border — property, city,
country — and other rules define another space.
Now we have arrived at the "high level" view of internet, from a solid model
based on first principles. As we hit www.something.com or rather www.
_someone_.com, we leave the neutral medium of air, we leave the public space
of whatever country/city we're in, and we join a new space with _someone 's_
rules.
Now think about it: why do people go to Disneyland with their children? why do
they watch Netflix Kids with them? Because they _like_ the rules in those
places, they embrace the values of whoever rules over there, _enough_ to spend
time and money —the only two resources at the end of the day.
And there is exactly where the debate about "what should platform X do" should
take place: as we would regulate private spaces opened to the public.
A complex aspect of "social media" and the policing of speech online comes
from the fact that most platforms are now serving two entirely different
sectors in one: physically, we had the press — but that's one way,
paper/radio/TV— and we had communication — landline or mobile phones, post
letters, fax; but in the virtual world, we are now consuming information from
the press (and countless other types) and communicating mostly in the same
place. Thus you can't regulate Facebook exclusively as either the
communication sector or the media/press sector; you need to consider it from
_both angles_. It's a complex topic, likely to require dismantling old
agencies and creating new ones more adequate, more fitting the problem space.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Yahoo Rocks my World (Sorry, Google) - theproductguy
http://tpgblog.com/2007/10/19/yahoo-rocks-my-world-sorry-google/
======
pbnaidu
Article is old....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cruel and Unusual Punishment: The Shame of Three Strikes Laws - dmmalam
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327
======
benjohnson
A rational person would stop stealing after the 2nd strike. It's wise to
remove harmful and irrational people from society.
Justice would demand that we expand the law to include white-collar crimes.
~~~
omonra
I am not sure that 3 white collar crimes should be punishable by life
sentence. Why not amend the law to only cover violent crime? For stealing of
socks, maybe just have sentencing guidelines that take into account how many
socks the offender had stolen before.
~~~
brg
One very good change to this policy was mentioned in the article,
_"Despite the passage in late 2012 of a new state ballot initiative that
prevents California from ever again giving out life sentences to anyone whose
"third strike" is not a serious crime"_
This refers to California Proposition 36. It was passed with 70% approval. It
also allows for resentencing, but I do not know under what conditions.
------
lutterkd
He's not "unlucky". He was punished for a crime. He thought to himself, I'll
just go and take what I want, and fuck everyone else. We don't want people
like that in society. Good riddance.
It's not a serious crime? You're right. That's worse! He's so sociopathic that
he'll break the law even when it's not even worth it to him! He'll take your
property, even when he could pay for it.
~~~
GotAnyMegadeth
I agree, punishments should be inversely proportional to the crime.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Proxy Orbit – Web Proxy API - max0563
https://proxyorbit.com/
======
cottsak
This is so kool. I wanted to make this some years ago
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Watch this homemade ‘lightsaber’ quickly burn through everything - edwinjm
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/05/27/watch-this-homemade-lightsaber-quickly-burn-through-everything-put-in-front-of-it/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheNextWeb+(The+Next+Web+All+Stories)
======
maresca
When you use something like this, do you have to have the laser bouncing into
some type of mirror? Is the laser burning his walls while not burning the
objects? Or does it's power diminish over longer distances?
~~~
Zigurd
His wife must be so pleased at all the random scorch marks in the kitchen.
------
droopyEyelids
3 watts of energy coming out of an LED is insane. To have all that
concentrated in a laser beam is truly something else.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
2,919 Movie Pirates Walk Free as BitTorrent Trolling Scheme Falls Apart - jaytaylor
http://torrentfreak.com/2919-movie-pirates-walk-free-as-bittorrent-trolling-scheme-falls-apart-130802
======
GabrielF00
There's another interesting copyright issue regarding the film in question
here, "All Things Fall Apart". Apparently, 50 Cent wanted to call the movie
"Things Fall Apart", but Chinua Achebe, who wrote a famous book by that name
in 1958, refused to sell him the rights for $1 million. The crazy part of this
is that Achebe took the title from a line from Yeats' 1919 poem "The Second
Coming". How Achebe can turn around and prevent someone else from using a
title he himself borrowed is beyond me.
[http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/sep/14/chinua-
achebe-5...](http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/sep/14/chinua-
achebe-50-cent)
~~~
harshreality
I don't think that's a _copyright_ issue, rather something more related to
trademark (although I don't think you can trademark the title of a book
either, there are a bunch of more obscure IP-related protections and this
might fall under one of them).
Nobody can _copyright_ a three word phrase. [edit: almost never, see [1]]
Copyright also applies if you copy enough story elements, but that doesn't
apply because 50 Cent's movie is not in any meaningful way a copy of Achebe's
story. And if that were the case, even changing the title completely wouldn't
avoid infringement. You would violate Rowling's copyright, for instance, if
you took a Harry Potter book, outlined the plot (even with character and place
names changed), and wrote a new novel from scratch using that outline.
_" The novel with the said title was initially produced in 1958 (that is 17
years before [50] was born)," replied his lawyers, according to Naijan. "[It
is] listed as the most-read book in modern African literature, and won't be
sold for even £1bn."_
I think this was IP bullying by Achebe's legal team (if were laywers at all).
They claim to have a monopoly to use the very generic title (even when
separated from the underlying story), and when offered a lot of money (I'd
love to hear 50 Cent's lawyers reason for offering a million dollars to use
that title), they make a category error, confusing rights to the book itself
with rights to a fairly generic title.
[1]
[http://fairuse.stanford.edu/2003/09/09/copyright_protection_...](http://fairuse.stanford.edu/2003/09/09/copyright_protection_for_short/)
~~~
thaumasiotes
If the state of the world is anything to go by, you indeed cannot protect the
title of your book, as it's quite frequent for two books to have exactly the
same name.
> You would violate Rowling's copyright, for instance, if you took a Harry
> Potter book, outlined the plot (even with character and place names
> changed), and wrote a new novel from scratch using that outline.
Terry Brooks might be surprised to hear this, as he seems to have been safe
from the notoriously litigious Tolkien estate. Try reading _The Lord of the
Rings_ sometime, then read _The Sword of Shannara_ (accurately described as
"especially blatant in its point-for-point correspondence" [1]).
Again, though, all that's only relevant if you're interested in the actual
state of the world.
[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Shannara#Sword_and...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Shannara#Sword_and_The_Lord_of_the_Rings)
~~~
makomk
You can protect the title of your book, it's just that most authors don't.
~~~
harshreality
You might be able to trademark it, if it's sufficiently unique in its market
to be trademarked. (i.e. you form a corporation with the book title as its
slogan, or you attach the trademark to some product or service you sell.)
However, contrary to popular belief, trademarks do not prohibit others using
your trademarks in their writing. They prohibit others using your trademarks
deceptively or in a way likely to cause confusion. Which means you don't have
the same ability to prevent someone from using your trademark in the title or
content of their book, that you have to prevent them from using _copyrighted_
material in their book.
------
syjer
What's amusing is that being a swiss company, what they are doing is illegal,
as IP address are considered part of the private sphere and they cannot be
harvested ( [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/switzerland-
gathe...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/switzerland-gathering-ip-
addresses-from-bittorrent-sites-illegal/) )
------
beloch
It's amusing how the troll-firm defines itself as non-profit. It must mean the
firm doesn't accrue any value from its operations. If it takes a few bonuses
for the partners to ensure that never happens, well that's okay!
~~~
Cthulhu_
It means they probably siphon the money off somewhere (shell companies, the
companies that hire / enlist them, etc) so that they're only non-profit
because their books balance out and because of the tax exemption status it
gets them.
~~~
nodata
Non-profit doesn't mean they don't make a profit.
~~~
elnate
What does it mean?
~~~
Retric
They can't have dividends, any profit must be reinvested or given to another
non profit.
~~~
sliverstorm
I presume it can also be spent on increased operational expenses, e.g. salary,
perks, etc?
~~~
Retric
Up to a point, there are issues if you start a non profit and then pay
yourself as CEO a truly insane income.
~~~
thaumasiotes
Can you elaborate on some of those issues? I've heard the unsubstantiated
claim that the NYSE works on essentially that principle, and the much better-
substantiated claim that that's what's going on with Morris Dees and the SPLC.
edit: stop impugning the SCLC; correctly impugn the SPLC.
------
vanderZwan
As someone on Reddit pointed out: _alleged_ movie pirates.
~~~
Cthulhu_
Yeah, the title could be done a bit more tactfully. They're not pirates (or,
guilty of copyright infringement) until they're convicted by a court, and
iirc, the number of people actually brought to court, charged, tried and
convicted is very small. Usually they're coerced into paying a settlement and
the thing is over with.
------
RubyWestcoast
Wait, let me get this straight. A company with no vested interest in the
copyright, no association with the party who owns the copyright, was claiming
copyright infringement and trying to subpoena identities? What the heck?
~~~
ori_b
They bought the right to sue from the actual copyright owners. Think of it as
outsourcing the copyright enforcement.
~~~
MichaelGG
Didn't Righthaven get slapped down for that? At least in the US, you can't
sell the "right to sue" for copyright.
~~~
nness
Ars did a post-mortem of sorts that explained just that, that Righthaven did
not posses any actual interest in the copyrights themselves, and had no
standing to sue.
[http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/copyright-
troll-r...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/copyright-troll-
righthaven-finally-completely-dead/)
------
znowi
Curious why the submitter rounded off the number :) Anyhow, good news. A small
win for the pirates.
------
kevinburke
How did this get to court? Who hired the lawyers to defend the pirates?
~~~
laurent123456
Contra Piracy only had IPs, so they went to court to request the identities of
the file-sharers from ISPs. At that point, there was nobody to defend since
they had no names.
------
MyDogHasFleas
I don't know about "walk free". If I were Contra Piracy, I would simply go
back to Hannibal Pictures' lawyers and get them to file the suit. Clearly as
the actual copyright owners, they have standing to file. Thus Contra Piracy
would become a subcontractor to Hannibal Pictures, and probably clear fewer
bucks, but at least it wouldn't be a complete loss.
~~~
smsm42
Actual copyright holders don't want to, it doesn't scale. The scalable model
is to demand settlement (marginal cost of roughly $0 after making email
templates and writing IP harvesting software) not to hire expensive lawyers to
actually file lawsuits.
~~~
MyDogHasFleas
It'll be interesting to see what happens with this. You may be right. Depends
on how enterprising Contra is, and how willing the studio is to engage in more
than just selling some rights and walking away. It's not really that much
potential revenue, the studio may not want to do any more.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Light bulb factory closes; End of era for U.S. - siculars
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090706933_pf.html
======
siculars
We can't make lightbulbs in the U.S. Just stop and take a moment to think
about that fact. Apparently there is no way to make a cost effective lightbulb
in the United States of America. We need hundreds of millions of bulbs to keep
the lights on. The new green bulbs cost something like 5$ each.
And we are supposed to be a super power? Don't get me wrong, I love this place
and still think we are the best country in the world and best all around place
to live but I really don't know how much longer I can say that. I've gone on
about our long slow deterioration into the abyss and here is yet more proof.
It's a crying shame.
Before some db posts a "Why does this belong on HN" comment, let me say that
manufacturing, operations and logistics are all ripe for hacking innovation.
Reading on in the article you will see the phrase: "With new automation
techniques". The fact that there is dwindling manufacturing in America means
there are no new automation techniques being learnt. That knowledge is
reserved for foreigners who we pay for the pleasure.
~~~
locopati
How is it a slam on the U.S. when corporations are playing on a global field
(i.e. it's cheaper to produce in another country) and the workers cannot (i.e.
no equivalent freedom of movement or, in many places, freedom of unionizing).
While some of this is about automation, more of it is about cheap labor and a
lack of regulations provided by other countries.
------
ams6110
The plant closed because of "a 2007 energy conservation measure passed by
Congress that set standards essentially banning ordinary incandescents by
2014."
I'm going to have to stockpile incandescent bulbs I guess, because I want no
part of CFLs. I tried them, and found that they are utterly inferior to
incandescent bulbs in almost every way. I guess they use less electricity, but
I noticed no significant change in my electric bill.
The light has an unpleasant color spectrum; they are dim for the first few
minutes after you turn them on; they don't work well outside in the winter;
they don't last much longer (despite claims to the contrary); they cost an
order of magnitude more; and they contain toxic mercury which can contaminate
your home if you drop one.
~~~
dangrossman
I moved into a new apartment townhome that has quite a few lights recently. A
large living room with track lighting, multiple recessed lights in the
kitchen, etc.
Between the first month and the second month, I dropped my electric bill by
over $50. I don't believe I ran any appliances significantly different between
the months. Temperatures were about the same.
What I did do was replace almost 20 incandescent bulbs with CFLs. If they were
an average of 60 watts each and the CFL equivalents an average of 15 watts
each, that's a drop of 900 watts in power usage for lighting.
There are definitely some bulbs that are slow to turn on and have a warm up
period before they reach full brightness. I read reviews on all the bulbs I'd
need online before buying, and none of the bulbs I got have that problem.
Sadly there were two bulbs I couldn't find a CFL replacement for, or I'd have
cut my power bill even more. They're very small dimmable reflector lights. I
can't find a CFL that's both a small enough reflector style to fit the
lighting, and also be dimmable.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
HN: Feedback on my laptop recovery service - sigfrid
http://www.melezi.com/
Think "lojack for laptops." Sign up, download/install client, and if you mark it as stolen you can recover files, delete files, see the IP, take pics, etc.
======
huhtenberg
You have zero implementation details on the website, so based on this fact
alone I am going to assume that client-side beacon is something simple, like a
system service or daemon running under the OS control.
If that's true, then it is quite lame compared, for example, to
<http://absolute.com/products-computrace-products.asp>. These guys went into a
trouble of standardizing _boot-level_ beacons, entering partership agreements
with HD manufacturers, etc. and that's why their beacons survive all but the
low-level HD formatting.
That's pretty much what you have to do for the tracking service to have any
value. If the beacon can be wiped out with a simple OS reinstall, your phone-
home-after-the-incident rate is going to be close to zero.
In other words, there is very sophisticated and mature competition, and your
service doesn't appear to live up to it at the moment. That's assuming I am
right about the implementation approach.
------
tstegart
It looks good. I would charge for it though. It almost seems strange/shady if
you don't charge for it, especially if the recovery data is hosted by you. I
suggest not using what a lot of other companies use, which is charging per
month. For some reason, I really hate that. Maybe per year, like $20. You
should do some sleuthing, see what people might pay. (I understand if you're
not charging because you want people to check it out).
Also, on the marketing side, I want to know more about how it works and what
it does. Some people might not be as literate. I assume it doesn't "phone
home" if the thief never turns it on or connects it to the internet, or
immediately formats the drive. You should explain that somewhere. Also, what
files can you retrieve and where? If the thief is using it at the time you're
trying to retrieve files, does the thief have any indication something is
happening? You don't need all this on the home page, but maybe under a "learn
more" button.
Using the term beacon implies that you can tell your customer where their
laptop is located (i.e. a physical address). Also, what help would you give to
someone once they get the IP address. What do I do once I know the thief's IP
address? Honestly, what would you do?
~~~
sigfrid
Thanks much for the input.
I was planning on charging like $15 a year or so to recoup server costs once
I'm sure it works and such. If a free product doesn't work people get mad, but
if a pay product has problems they get really mad and so does their credit
card provider.
About the IP address, I would probably find out the ISP and then email the
ISP. Realistically, I think that's the best you can do in many cases. The
police have better things to do than track down the odd stolen laptop.
~~~
jonknee
> About the IP address, I would probably find out the ISP and then email the
> ISP. Realistically, I think that's the best you can do in many cases. The
> police have better things to do than track down the odd stolen laptop.
You don't seem fairly motivated to recover the laptop (nor even have a real
plan), that's not a good quality for such a service. There are plenty of other
competitors in the space and they are very enthusiastic about working with the
police. A few great success stories are priceless in marketing value.
In general, you should be very very specific about what your software does and
what you'll be able to do in case of a reported stolen laptop. It's
essentially spyware, so you need to be very up front.
------
gstar
Also have a look at Adeona (<http://adeona.cs.washington.edu/>)
Its a similar free product that goes to great lengths to anonymise the
tracking data from the laptop and de-centralise the storage - mostly by
leveraging OpenDHT (<http://www.opendht.org/>)
I also agree with the other commenters about people being wary of centralised
control, and the security risks that a compromise of your server could
potentially cause (downloading of arbitrary files on all your users laptops by
an attacker!)
Your added value here is file recovery, which I haven't really seen done
before - perhaps you could expand the Adeona concept with that - and while
you're at it wrap Adeona with something more friendly to install and
understand.
huhtenberg has a valid point with the beacon survival, but callings yours
'quite lame' was a bit harsh!
------
dandelany
A small design annoyance: the icons on the left are transparent GIF's, and
they're resized in the browser using the image tags.
Resize the images themselves so that they are the same size as they appear on
the page, this will get rid of the jaggedy non-anti-aliased resized look.
Also, make them JPGs with the blue background color. If you absolutely must
make them transparent GIFs, use Photoshop to set the matte background to the
blue color so they don't have a white halo around them. This is a small thing,
but it'll go a long way towards looking professional, I promise.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fiat Chrysler is giving up to $1,500 to hackers who find bugs in its software - cag_ii
http://fortune.com/2016/07/13/fiat-chrysler-bug-bounty-program/
======
chrisbennet
Would even the max ($1500) be enough to attract bug hunters? Does that seem
pretty cheap?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bell Labs Centenary Homage to Claude Shannon - metaphor
https://www.bell-labs.com/claude-shannon/
======
ebcode
download pdf points to google.com?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Innocent People Plead Guilty (2014) - sergeant3
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/nov/20/why-innocent-people-plead-guilty/
======
FroshKiller
I was charged with a felony (unauthorized access of a government computer)
back in 2004. I had just graduated from college and was looking for steady
work. I faced some pressure from friends and family to plea bargain even
though I was innocent simply because they feared I'd be found guilty at trial
by a jury that couldn't understand the case. Happily, the DA wised up and
dismissed the charges eventually, but it took years and caused me a lot of
personal difficulty. It's a damn shame on the criminal justice system that
innocent people should so fear wrongful conviction that they'd meet it
halfway. I was prepared to fight, but I don't begrudge anyone who would choose
differently for themselves and their loved ones.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: In what ways do non-developers waste money not knowing how to code? - castig
======
mrfusion
There are probably a lot of use cases for version control in the non
programming world where people could benefit.
I'm guessing people waste time copying and versioning files, and emailing
updates back and forth, losing old changes, etc.
------
lsiebert
Taking data in one system or format that is already in a computer, and
manually performing one of, or a combination ofm transformations, filtering,
aggregating, moving to another system, etc.
Like I have gone through voter mailing data for a political candidate and
filtered it, removed individuals who's addresses were outside the area or who
hadn't voted in the last election, combined individuals with the same last
name and the same address, then transformed it into a format suitable for
address printing.
All that is pretty easy to do with code. If you wanted to go through several
thousand by hand though in an unsorted list, that would be a pain. Businesses
will have similar requirements... like taking sales data that is already
entered and formatting it for a report.
Where non developers waste money is doing a repetitive time consuming rules
based task on a computer without automating it.
Ancedotally, non developers also tend to undervalue their and their employee's
time. If you are paying an employee to do a task, if it's not absolutely
essential or doesn't have a ROI that's higher then money you are paying the
employee per hour to handle it, it's time to consider how important that task
is.
Finally, again ancedotally, non developers often won't invest in maintenance
costs, and instead end up paying for time sensitive repairs or fixes, because
they are easier to reason about. A coder is more likely to expect things to
break, code to rot, etc. This can be in objects, services or in underpaying
trained individuals so that their is a high turn over rate, where better pay
might reduce that. Costco for example makes money despite it's higher pay
because they have to train employees less. I think high pay also tends to
reduce employee pilferage.
~~~
allendoerfer
I would second that and add, that there are two groups of people:
Members of the first group, generally a bit older and less tech savvy, see
these problems as actual skilled work, which needs explanation. "Then you got
to move your mouse over here and click, when this pops up you need to …"
People from the second group realize, that they are doing dumb work and either
do not care or realize, that a computer should do this. If they have seen a
solution in the past, they use it. For example using Doodle instead of e-mail
to schedule an event or using Dropbox or Google Docs to collaborate.
They might even come up with a process, which removes the need for the manual
work, for example by putting the data in the right format in the first place.
What they often can not see is, that you could hire somebody to connect the
systems let alone use some Unix piping magic on their own. Also they do not
consider the implications of using a consumer solution in a business setting
like security concerns, fragmentation etc.
------
mrfusion
How about knowing what things are easy or hard [1].
I'm guessing a lot of business owners might dismiss good ideas as being too
difficult/expensive when they're actually easy to program.
[1] [http://xkcd.com/1425/](http://xkcd.com/1425/)
~~~
LarryMade2
I think the other bit is not realizing what is possible.
Many non-developers only see as far as what paper accomplishments they have
already created with their projects. Programmers, on the other hand, see
further possibilities in data entry, management, and reporting, also methods
to reduce the amount of work that could be done.
Sometimes that also leads to that XKCD cartoon, where non-programmers think
the computers can do anything, or think that an automated X is the way to go.
Seasoned developers can offer valuable insight on what might or might not be a
good idea and provide wisdom on why.
------
castig
My first suggestion here is: having to pay your developer to make even the
smallest changes (like a spelling mistake between a <h1> that if you knew the
tiniest bit of code you could potentially fix by yourself).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
IE9 team responds to Reddit questions: reddit tl;dr version - dochtman
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dk3s0/the_ie9_team_responds_to_your_questions/c10szx5
======
niyazpk
Mark my words, the decision of not to making IE9 compatible with XP will lead
to thousands of hours of developer time and millions of dollars wasted in
fixing browser compatibility issues. This will just be another reincarnation
of the IE6 effect.
BTW the tl;dr version is an excellent summary. It is a warning to all the
marketing people out there that the internet will make a bare truth tl;dr
version of any sugarcoated market-speak you publish.
~~~
cubicle67
[disclosure: I've just spent the last few hours getting some new stuff working
in IE7 and 8. at the moment my level of contempt for all things IE is pretty
high :) ]
I have no problems at all with them not supporting XP. It's 10 years old, and
if they've decided to make use of features of Vista and 7 not available in XP,
then good for them. Seriously.
I'm also inclined to think that any non-enterprise user still running XP and
IE isn't going to manually upgrade to IE9 without being forced to. Those that
would are also able to install any of the alternatives that _do_ run on XP
~~~
pilif
in the corporate environment it's much easier to tell them "hey! Please
upgrade your IE6 to the latest version" than it is telling them "hey! Please
install $alternative_browser for which no means of administering it with group
policies exists"
~~~
grayrest
"hey! Please install a plugin[1]?"
<http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/>
~~~
pilif
yeah - that what I said today.
And now there's 300 less IE6 to worry about.
------
cubicle67
in response to a question about websockets and friends:
_Our approach when deciding what technologies to support starts with data.
There are three things we consider: What are developers actually doing on the
web today? What do developers want to do in the future? <snip> We started by
building a tool to look at the top 7000 sites and what web APIs they used._
Isn't this arse about? Isn't it kind of hard to use new tech if it isn't
supported. I'd love to be able to use some of the new HTML5 things, but IE is
holding us back
_XP is a platform that doesn't allow for the performance characteristics of a
modern web experience._
WTF sort of a response is that? There's some good answers in there, but this
sort of spin-driven markety rhubarb works so hard to hide it. Why not just say
that IE9 makes use of features available in Vista and 7, but not in XP.
~~~
StavrosK
Their entire attitude is worrying. I'm afraid that this is going to hinder the
web again, it just looks like they want to release the bare minimum they can
to get marketshare instead of actually make a good browser.
Opera, with its 5% market share (or so) has been reigning on the tests and
innovation for ever, and Microsoft can't get enough employees together to work
on a browser?
As far as I'm concerned, nobody should recommend IE for anything, as the risk
of Microsoft pulling another IE6 is too high, and not worth the reward.
~~~
DeusExMachina
I wonder if it could be possible to see more and more web apps take advantage
of the full standard and state clearly on the front page "this website does
not work on any IE version. Please use another browser".
This is indeed a hard choice to do, since it means leaving a lot of potential
users out of the plate. Maybe startups can afford such bold moves, I don't
know. But I think this could be the only way to force Microsoft change their
mentality, eroding their browser market share more and more.
~~~
StavrosK
This is debatable. For example, the historious bookmarklet works on all
browsers right now, except IE8 which refuses to run the JS. IE users are about
6% of our users, so is it worth spending hours debugging an issue for 6% of
the userbase?
We will do it, for the _user_ , not for the browser. I don't want to have to
tell someone "this doesn't work, use something else", because it's just not
polite to tell him what he can or can't use for a few extra hours of work on
our part.
However, if the browser is _so_ broken that it takes considerable work to make
it usable, then yes, I'll put up an overlay saying "your browser is too
broken, please use another one for the good of the internet and your sanity".
EDIT: Also, I don't want Microsoft to change their mentality. I want them to
stop making browsers (and maybe a few other things).
------
lenni
I read the original thread on reddit and this pretty much sums up what I
silently thought to myself.
It was a nice touch to get in front of the reddit crowd, but they completely
sidestepped hard questions. It's a bit like a Catholic doing an AMA and then
not answering the questions about child abuse, homosexuality and bloodshed and
ridiculous things in the bible.
~~~
tiles
[Responding critically because this comment was posted critically.] I had to
re-read the Catholic comment before I found you weren't being intentionally
offensive. The analogy would have been better stated if it were a Catholic
priest doing an AMA. Asking a Catholic would be like asking an IE user why a
Microsoft employee was arrested for embezzling, why Microsoft doesn't support
Open Source, or why they arbitrarily refuse to make their browser more cross-
platform. An IE user is justified in dodging the question since they don't
really control those things, they just use the product.
~~~
lenni
You said it better than I did. A Catholic priest, who has credible authority
talking in detail, would have been better.
If you go in front of a crowd who is outraged by the actions of the
organisation you're representing, do expect difficult questions.
------
bl4k
Standards plays are political and market based, nothing to do with IE being
slow or them being stupid. Innovations we can thank IE for that were never
'standard':
* innerHTML
* css applied to chrome
* XMLHttpRequest
* i18n DNS
* double-byte char support (since 96)
* embed (or was it object? one of the two - the first one)
* first video embed (IE2 on Mac)
* hasLayout
* iframe
* marquee (for the lolz)
* contenteditable
* opacity/filter
* favicons
* first implementations of CSS, tables, 128-bit ssl, xml (5) and xstl (5)
It works better when coders who build browsers decide new features, not some
guys sitting around a table trying to agree on what an image display should
look like.
Exactly what Andreessen did, he just added stuff to Netscape and let the
loonies complain about it not being 'proper'. We criticize Microsoft for the
same thing.
People don't complain about Intel and AMD with instruction set standards, but
they complain about web standards because it is easy to.
~~~
points
You're quite wrong.
HTML5 is innovating. IE is way behind when it comes to innovative features.
And please don't hold up 'innerHTML' as an example of a good thing.
~~~
bl4k
That is my entire point. They are far behind now because we criticized the for
so long and they threw in the towel after IE6.
Microsoft did almost zero browser innovation after 6 and until now, whereas
previously they innovated. And now they can't win either way.
It just shows that the sentiment the entire time was anti-msft
~~~
points
I disagree. They stopped innovating after they killed all of the competition.
They didn't need to any more.
MS certainly don't have a vested interest in the internet - it goes against
their core business.
~~~
bl4k
I think its fair to say that Microsoft don't do complacency
esp. in competitive markets
IE team was torn apart as part of internal politics
~~~
jfager
That's not fair to say at all. IE6 is a perfect example of complacency in a
competitive market from years ago. Their mobile efforts to date are a perfect
example of complacency in a competitive market today. They were _years_ late
in shipping Vista, _years_ late in trying to meaningfully compete with Google,
they've been long complacent with their Mac Office products, and some of their
developer tools are atrocious.
You don't get a pass because your internal bureaucracy and politics prevent
your engineers from doing their jobs.
~~~
bl4k
Actually you are correct. I think if they had the option to, they would not
have been complacent, but all the internal muddling stalled them on Vista
(worst project ever) and IE. They only got their teams cleared out in the past
18 months and restructured and there is a lot more to do (Dean Hatchamovitch
leads the IE team now, great guy who came in via sysinternals)
So you are right that internal turmoil shouldn't be used as an excuse. I think
they know that they can't be complacent though, the Vista slip must have cost
a lot of market share to Apple.
------
points
Just to clarify for those that haven't read the answers, this doesn't look
anything like the "IE9 team" responding. It looks like a marketing team
responding.
That's why you get BS answers like "XP is a platform that doesn't allow for
the performance characteristics of a modern web experience."
~~~
philjackson
I'm just wondering; if they had said "we don't want to have to spend time and
money backporting new APIs and we want to encourage you to upgrade Windows",
how would we react? Frankly I would have far more respect for an honest answer
like that.
------
nl
Can we kill the IE-should-be-built-on-webkit meme? One of the web's strengths
is the wide range of independent and compatible implementations.
Yes, the differences suck when you are dealing with CSS incompatibility
problems, but when you look at the big picture it remains vitally important.
~~~
shadowsun7
_One of the web's strengths is the wide range of independent and compatible
implementations._
What do you mean by this? Am genuinely curious, because I've always raged at
the lack of browser standardization.
~~~
logophobia
Because:
* Mono-cultures are bad security-wise, it's harder to target multiple platforms with different vulnerabilities then one platform (which is one of the reasons IE had such a bad reputation for a long time)
* It prevent people from coding to specific browser bugs/quirks. When there are a lot of platforms it is easier to code to standards (if they are consistently implemented across browsers) then specific platforms. Theoretically at least..
------
DevX101
I love reddit, but I place some of the blame in this fiasco on the reddit
admins -- raldi & company. They came out a few weeks ago and mentioned
explicitly that they were MANAGING the ad campaign for IE9.
Now, the reddit admins are abosulutely excellent at connecting with their
audience. When the site goes down for a bit, they put out technical no-BS
posts that get upvoted close to 1000 times, and all is forgiven.
The admins should have interjected themselves before this response was posted
and warned Microsoft marketing this 'this response won't fly here'.
Reddit is at an important inflection now, and the admins need to step up and
become the Don Draper for their world of tech users. If this campaign had
succeeded, I could absolutely see many other companies coming to them and
paying big bucks for similar campaigns.
There's still an AMA coming up today, so there's a chance to recover, so we'll
see how that goes.
~~~
ZachPruckowski
>The admins should have interjected themselves before this response was posted
and warned Microsoft marketing this 'this response won't fly here'.
How do you know they didn't? Maybe they did and Microsoft ignored their
advice.
Regardless, I blame Microsoft for not understanding marketing. The whole point
of doing this sort of Q&A thing is to give a community exclusive access to
build rapport. That's just basic. And they promised exclusive access and
instead delivered marketing tripe where people were expecting exclusive
developer commentary.
~~~
DevX101
At some level Microsoft know's they're not ideally cut out for doing this type
of dynamic marketing. Which is why they put the reddit team in charge of the
campagin in the first place.
The admins should have made it clear in no uncertain terms that this post
would be a disaster. If they didn't do that convincingly enough, that's their
fault.
~~~
barclay
> The admins should have made it clear in no uncertain terms that this post
> would be a disaster
I dunno. If you look at some of the more technical stuff the MS devs post on
channel9 (and some of it being really, really good) you could almost imagine
that there _could_ have been an interesting and informative exchange of
information here.
~~~
kenjackson
Honestly, I don't think there could have. Take for example, the question on
spell checking. The right response, IMO, would have been. "Given everything
else we needed to do and still needs to do, this is pretty far down on the
priority list."
I'm sure that would have been disliked just as much as their response, which I
actually sort of liked as it went into more detail about how items get
prioritized.
But a general tip to the IE team... you can tell customers your decisions, not
how you arrived at them. In general the most vocal people will be those that
disagree with your decisions, and can then attack how you made the decisions.
------
jasonkester
The actual responses are here:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dk3s0/the_ie9_te...](http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dk3s0/the_ie9_team_responds_to_your_questions/)
The comment linked summarizes the IE team's responses in the voice of a M$
strawman, ready to be attacked by Reddit. As a result, it makes for a more
entertaining read if you like to hate Microsoft, but it doesn't tell you what
they're actually thinking.
I preferred the long version.
~~~
cubicle67
the long version doesn't tell you what they were thinking either
_[edited to add the following]_
Yes, there's a few cases where the longer version contains a bit more detail,
but in general the tl;dr version is a pretty concise summary. For example,
compare this answer
_XP is a platform that doesn't allow for the performance characteristics of a
modern web experience. We have a great browser for XP users (IE8) but as the
web continues to advance you need a modern operating environment that can take
advantage of the underlying hardware through the OS. IE9 requires Direct 2D
support which is available in Vista (with SP2) and Windows 7._
to this
_Because Microsoft neither wants to backport new APIs to XP, nor do they want
to release a version of IE9 that doesn't require the new APIs._
~~~
StavrosK
Especially with the answer about visualisation, the summary was _spot on_.
Seriously, what the _fuck_ , Microsoft? Your browser is so precious that you
can't release it as a standalone product so _the entire world_ can move on?
------
Griever
The refusal of including auto-update is pretty infuriating to me.
"Will you force users to keep IE up to date so developers don't have to
support legacy browsers.
Corporations don't want to have the latest version of a browser."
Alright, I understand that auto-updating could be an issue for IT at large
corporations, but why not just make it a feature that is enabled by default?
I'm sure IT guys who DO want their users using the latest stable release would
be quite happy, and those who don't could easily disable it.
------
jan_g
I think that tying IE to operating system is a bad decision. If they can make
whole MS Office package available on OSX, then why is browser that special ?
Of course I know many of the reasons why _not_ port IE to other oper. systems,
but it would make my life easier if I could have all browsers on my machine
for development testing.
~~~
cubicle67
I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, but from what I can see
Office for Mac isn't simply a port but a completely separate codebase
developed in parallel (for low values of parallel)
It (Mac Office) also generates a significant amount of income for MS
~~~
jan_g
No, I didn't know that, because it's completely counter-intuitive approach to
creating software. You have to abstract most of the stuff and then port just
OS-specific stuff. It's beyond me why a company of the great software
development tradition like Microsoft would go and maintain two completely
separate codebases.
~~~
jasonlotito
Because then Office would end up like iTunes for Windows. Office for Mac is
actually really, really nice. I'm sure they have a lot of shared common
libraries between the two, but it isn't a quick and dirty port. They take what
they can use, but make sure that the end result is tuned for the OS.
~~~
mdwrigh2
Not to derail the topic from the main issue at hand, but what's so wrong with
iTunes on Windows? While it doesn't conform to all of the Windows idioms you'd
expect, I still found it to be a better music player than just about
everything else. This was a couple years ago, back when I was using Windows,
however.
~~~
jasonlotito
First, there is the issue of those Windows idioms that you expect on Windows.
iTunes and Safari both essentially forgo any pretense of adopting Windows
standards and instead keep their own way of doing things. It would be as if
Office for Mac didn't use the menu bar on Apple, and instead, simply copied
what they did on Windows.
It also doesn't work well with the OS. Things you can quickly and easily do in
WMP are painful in iTunes.
I'm sure some people found iTunes a pleasant experience, but most people I
know only have it installed because they have an iPod or an iPhone, and are
forced to use it.
Basically, it works well enough, but it's not a polished application.
~~~
calloc
Office for the Mac doesn't follow standard Mac OS X idioms either ... for
example using its own spell check rather than the system wide one. Printing
goes through their own dialog which can cause all kinds of issues. Excel's
scrolling is not the same as scrolling in the rest of OS X (they followed the
scrolling from Excel on Windows which is horrible).
The worst part is that I like to have various apps open in my dock, then when
I click on them or switch to them with Alt + Tab I DON'T want them to open a
new empty document that covers the entire screen thereby disrupting my thought
process, and even if it did that when I open an existing document it should
close the temporary empty document it just created (see TextEdit for a good
example of that).
In Excel for example the only way to get the function toolbar to show up is to
click the "Formula Builder" in the "Toolbox". As soon as I click away from it
to format the text a certain colour the bar disappears.
When I am within a Cell in Excel, I can't use any of the Cmd + key shortcuts
to accomplish anything, for example, selecting the entire contents of said
cell.
Going back to the text editing part, I can't easily look up a word in the
built-in dictionary with ctrl + cmd + d while hovering over a word.
Office for the Mac stands out like a sore thumb.
~~~
jasonlotito
Fair enough. You do make some good points. =) However, I think it's fair to
say the Office for Mac team has done a lot more to make their software for the
Mac, rather than just a mere port.
------
marknutter
Lack of Websockets support so disheartening it almost makes me want to cry.
~~~
lukifer
This one drives me crazy too. At least it can be emulated via Flash or
Socket.io to support the same features on IE.
------
mirkules
Just read the original, and while I do disagree with Microsoft's approach to
answering these questions, I think the reddit community did a disservice to
themselves (and possibly the entire hacker community) by transparently
disguising attacks in the form of asking a question. For example:
"When will they be releasing a Mac OSX version? I couldn't find the download
link on their site. I must be an idiot. But I submitted a question so I'm sure
they'll get back to me and tell me where the download link is. I've also got a
Linux machine at home. Perhaps I could use that? Has anyone tried the Linux
version yet? Does it work OK? I couldn't see the Linux link either, but I
wasn't really looking very hard. Some companies don't support Linux, so
perhaps it's understandable if they haven't got a Linux version yet. I'm sure
it'll be coming along soon. But I can't imagine anyone would release a new
browser these days and not have a version that runs on Macs. So it must just
be me. Right?:-/"
I'm not saying tough questions shouldn't be asked -- they should, and were --
but this particular kind of question is immature and should have just been
ignored. I'm not at all surprised MS decided to respond in PR speak (although
I still don't condone it).
Personally, I'd love to see Microsoft reach out to a more mature audience and
actually have their engineers answer questions this time.
~~~
niels_olson
Perhaps we should invite them to an HN ama?
------
Groxx
> _As you can imagine a hospital with a multimillion dollar patient tracking
> web based application doesn't want a silent or automatic upgrade to their
> browser that could in fact jeopardize their patient's safety._
I doubt I'm the only one, but... I'd be willing to bet the _delays_ in
adopting updated browsers is a _far_ worse security hole. I can't count the
number of times I've heard of a company getting a virus into the network
through some specific version of IE, and which only works on some specific
version of XP. Businesses which _don't_ update are a script kiddie's wet
dream, because they're such an easy mark to cause trouble to.
And, to the writer of the tl;dr version: _wow_. That's a billion times more
readable than the official responses, and remarkably accurate for the ones I
was able to stomach reading. Excellent job.
------
Locke1689
I saw this and at first I was hopeful that something good would happen. Then I
saw the comments and remembered that, for every smart Reddit user there are
about 99 blithering idiots.
Most of the comments were troll responses and a circlejerk of Microsoft hate.
Very disappointing.
------
nphase
_Making a browser gives us more power to control web technologies._
This makes me truly sad. It's clear they've learned nothing from their own
browser history and have a terrible attitude towards the progress of the
modern web.
~~~
dbrannan
It seems they are still fighting for control through the web browser, and its
a strategy ingrained into their very core. I would think they would do
everything possible to protect their cash cows (office + os) and limiting
browser functionality to the least common denominator (IE) is the easier way.
------
greyman
I wonder if we also could have something like "HN questions" here?
~~~
steveklabnik
My searchyc foo is weak, but I think this was done a few weeks ago.
And also, this is directly part of Microsoft advertising on Reddit. Since HN
doesn't have ads...
Not saying they wouldn't ever do it, just that's how it got on Reddit in the
first place.
------
jerome_etienne
im surprised how honnest they are. sure they control what they say, but it is
far from the usual "ie9 is better than all other browsers" diagrams they usual
give us
------
Tomek_
Not the best moment in MS' history but some of those questions are kinda "low"
too: people seriously expecting that there will be IE9 for Linux? Come on, get
real!
~~~
cryptoz
IE is the only (common, useful) browser that doesn't run on Linux. It's not
_that_ absurd to hope that future versions might be cross-platform.
~~~
Tomek_
IE on Linux would only be used by webdesigners (all 17 of them that actually
use Linux) to test if a webpage works good in it, a "normal" Linux user would
never use it as his default browser, if only because: a) it's not open-source
b) it's from that "evil" Microsoft
So there's no sense for MS to invest money into that sort of adventure.
~~~
cryptoz
Microsoft makes gobs of money from ads on Bing searches, just as Google does
from Google searches. In the consumer market, Windows share is falling. Google
is releasing an OS later this year, Apple's products are obscenely popular.
Android is more and more popular every day.
People don't _care_ what OS or browser they're running half the time. The
thing is that IE is _not an option_ ; it can't be bundled on the most popular
smartphones, or the most popular tablets because MS won't let it be.
I'm not suggesting that Gentoo nerds who write web software are going to care;
I _am_ suggesting that MS is losing out badly because of their Windows-only
attitude. The future is NOT Windows-only software: the future is cross-
platform software.
Microsoft is making a big mistake by not allowing anyone to use IE unless they
also use Windows.
~~~
Tomek_
At no point I wrote that I'm for IE being Windows only. Sure, Mac version
would make sense. But a Linux one? Not really.
~~~
cryptoz
Linux phones are selling faster than Apple phones. Why doesn't it make sense
to support the new, popular mobile OS?
------
gbrindisi
I hate when i read a lot of "Because Marketing told us so...". I know this is
how the world is going, but damn it's harsh.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rails references - mechanician
I'm have a few web applications I'm trying to develop and I have been told Ruby on Rails is the tool to use. What references (free would be nice) would ya'll recommend? My programming experience has been limited to scientific analysis and simulation.
======
evdawg
Try Ruby in Your Browser - <http://tryruby.hobix.com/>
Why's Poignant Guide to Ruby - <http://poignantguide.net/ruby/>
Offical Ruby on Rails Guides - <http://guides.rubyonrails.org/>
------
csbartus
if you are new to programming you should read these two books (not free i'm
afraid):
Design Patterns in Ruby (Addison-Wesley Professional Ruby… by Russ Olsen
The Art of Rails (Programmer to Programmer) by Edward Benson
------
gregking
Agile Web Development with Rails, 3rd Edition
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Would you use this? Why/Why Not? What three things it definitely must have? - jwtuckr
http://www.glasswireframe.com<p>Entrepreneur looking for feedback :-) Thanks!
======
jonaldomo
What does this solve/do better than the other wireframe tools? Also, you have
a 1.3mb image and a 600kb javascript file. It's a pretty simple page, I would
try shrinking the javascript file down to make load time faster. In my
experience people remember slowness more than almost anything.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN - mikefb
I love to spend time coding and building the product. But how does one make his saas look less like crap? Any good resources?
======
gringoDan
Quickest way: hire a great designer.
Cheapest way: learn design yourself.
I don't think there are any quick shortcuts here. You may want to check out
Dribbble for inspiration and resources:
[https://dribbble.com/](https://dribbble.com/)
------
sharemywin
I wonder if there are any templates for Saas Products that you could use?
------
softwareqrafter
Why make it nicer?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to define custom, colored labels (like TODO) in VIM - pabloIMO
http://dtuite.github.com/define-custom-vim-tags-and-labels.html
======
Nick_C
The link to the article is: [http://dtuite.github.com/define-custom-vim-tags-
and-labels.h...](http://dtuite.github.com/define-custom-vim-tags-and-
labels.html)
yet Chrome tries to take me to: [http://onlyvariance.comdavidtuite.com/define-
custom-vim-tags...](http://onlyvariance.comdavidtuite.com/define-custom-vim-
tags-and-labels.html)
which is an invalid domain.
Anyone know what to do to get to the article?
~~~
mattyb
Type "cache:[http://dtuite.github.com/define-custom-vim-tags-and-
labels.h...](http://dtuite.github.com/define-custom-vim-tags-and-labels.html)
into Chrome's address bar and hit enter to see the content.
The repo is no longer visible (<http://davidtuite.com/define-custom-vim-tags-
and-labels.html>), so I'm guessing it was either deleted or made private. The
CNAME file in that repo probably inadvertently pointed to
"onlyvariance.comdavidtuite.com" and GitHub is still caching it.
------
sikhnerd
The true extensibility of vim never ceases to amaze me.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
QArt codes, the better way to put picture in a QR code - voodoochilo
http://hackaday.com/2012/04/13/qart-codes-the-better-way-to-put-picture-in-a-qr-code/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29
======
luriel
Russ Cox's original blog post about QArt: <http://research.swtch.com/qart>
Note: Russ Cox is also part of the Go team at Google and was in charge of
building Code Search(RIP) and when it was shut down he released the core of
the indexing engine: <http://code.google.com/p/codesearch/>
~~~
mdwrigh2
He also wrote RE2 [1] and has published a few articles on regular expression
matching [2]. I highly recommend taking some time to look through his blog,
he's got some great stuff there.
[1]: <http://code.google.com/p/re2/> [2]: <http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/>
------
singular
This, as usual, is amazing. Russ is just ridiculous. I range between being
deeply jealous of him and deeply impressed at the productivity and quality of
his work :-)
/geek-gushing
------
exch
Other discussion: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3833850>
------
ewest
I am trying to get this working on Windows - any ideas? I downloaded the Go
build for windows (<https://code.google.com/p/go/downloads/list>) yet I have
no idea how to build this app (QR.go)
~~~
grecy
I'm just using the web-ified version directly. It works very well.
<http://research.swtch.com/qr/draw>
------
mkup
Russ Cox must be a code name of the team working at Google on various
projects?
~~~
luriel
He was just as insanely productive even before he joined Google, for a while
he was both at Bell Labs (hacking on Plan 9, venti, and other things) and at
MIT (hacking on vx32, the modern-C rewrite of the original Unix V6 kernel,
etc.)
------
LukeShu
I'm surprised how quickly this ended up on HN. I submitted it to Hack a Day
late last night (early morning?), and was surprised that Hack a Day got it
online by the time I left the house.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Advice needed for spare time project - ibrow
Hi all,<p>What do we do?<p>My girlfriend loves music and I love coding so we joined forces a couple of years ago and produced LiveUnsigned.com - an international listings site and blog for unsigned and micro-label artists.<p>We've always gone for the slow burn, building up visitors using the blog and the long tail. Whilst we never saw it as a huge money maker we did see it as eventually paying its way.<p>We've built it up over evenings and weekend (and the occasional ODesk hire) to where it is today:<p><pre><code> - average 400 unique visitors a day
- average 30,000 page views per month
- split roughly 50-50 between blog and listings
- over 2000 twitter followers
- over 8500 artist profiles
- over 3000 venues in 42 countries
- 1200 upcoming shows
</code></pre>
We have a couple of great writers for the blog and reviews who are both immersed into the world of DIY music, and whom we pay a nominal amount to per month.<p>The issue here is that we have an increasingly limited amount of spare time. We've just had a baby girl (8 months old) so both time and money is a lot tighter than it was. And we're getting married later this year, which is also putting a further burden on time and money.<p>We have tried a number of things to bring cash in, adwords only bought in about £5 in the two months we tried it. We offered a "feature show" where you can pay £2 to promote your show, even a donate button. Nothing has really worked.<p>So what do we do? We have a site that we both love and we feel has great potential, but is taking up both our increasingly sparse time and money with no obvious gain.<p>We both feel like we need honest advice from someone completely detached. Whether the advice is to try doing X, Y or Z, or to scrap the listings and focus on the blog, or even just to stop completely.<p>What started out as a fun thing to do together is increasingly becoming a source of headache and tension.<p>Any advice much appreciated.<p>(note: I'll try and stay up and respond to any questions if they come along, but it's getting late and my daughter wakes up early!)<p>Edit: spelling
======
polyfractal
General musing out loud:
How about making a "premium" membership for venues? Venues pay a monthly fee
($37/month, whatever) and gain some special advantages. Perhaps they show
higher in listings, or get bolded. Or maybe a weekly email of bands which are
going to be in the area, as well as any statistics you have about them.
Alternatively, segment out the venues which are updating on a regular basis.
Take a portion of that segment and start charging them in some capacity - a
flat fee each time they update shows, etc Or make them purchase "credits" in
bulk which are then spent on each update.
I think the monthly model is better, since people naturally like the
"unlimited updates" that come with a monthly membership, whereas "credits"
tend to promote hoarding and may reduce updates.
Another option is customized newsletters via email. I'm thinking a
personalized email which shows upcoming live shows in my area. If one of those
landed in my inbox weekly I'd probably read it and check out the bands. Once
you build a steady open-rate you could start selling that resource to venues
(either through advertising or statistics).
------
anigbrowl
You don't say how much it costs you; my impression is that the time is more
than the cash amount. Have you tried asking your users what they want, or
telling your users what you want? I'm thinking of '8500 artists. 1200 upcoming
shows. Could someone please buy us a drink?' A subscription model would be
ideal but I'm not sure how you do that - although i do think that charging two
quid for promotion sends the message that your service lacks value, and that
you would have got many more signups if you had demanded twenty. If you can't
see a subscription model, cost out an upgrade and some merch and then do a
kickstarter to raise the funds.
What sort of values could you ad if you had money to burn? How about a full
page ad in NME or Q every month promoting 3 new bands? Or a hookup with a
radio station? Have you tried getting sponsorship from music instrument
manufacturers/dealers? Musicians are always craving new gear, it's an
addiction in the same way that music fans are always craving new tunes.
~~~
ibrow
Thanks for your reply.
It costs us roughly £400 per month, including blog posts, server costs and we
have an odesk hire who does about 10-15 hours per week researching and
entering in shows.
I see what you mean about the £2 as lacking in value, it's all about
perception.
Sadly outside the US so I don't think we can do kickstarter (don't know if
there are any EU equivalents).
If we had money to burn we'd most likely revamp the site, focusing on mobile
(more and more people are accessing us with Android/iPhone ad we both feel
this is the way to go). We'd also like to do events for unsigned bands.
If money was truly no object, then yes, full page ads would be pretty cool,
but I have no idea how we'd get roi on this.
One thing we've thought about (in conjunction with the localisation of a
mobile site) would be very localised targeted advertising. But we're not
marketing/ad people and have no idea even where to begin with this.
Is it even possible to get a sales person for commission only to do something
like this?
~~~
anigbrowl
I hesitate to give specific advice from so far away, but my experience of
music promoters is that they are some of the most entrepreneurial people out
there (to the point that they will exploit you if allowed, of course).
Offhand, I would look for ways to get income from the venues, whose economics
are simple: book bands with fans, sell booze to fans, profit. They're much
more likely to spend, and to understand their own economics than bands
themselves. Start your research by calling around local and regional papers as
if you had a pub or something and wanted to take out your own advertising -
get the rate card of old-media publications and try to guess how much it costs
a venue owner to bring the public inside the door and spending money. Or
again, simply ask them.
The more I think about it, the more I think venues are your revenue stream.
Bands come and go, whereas stages tend to stay in one place :-)
~~~
ibrow
This is great, and probably the way to go. We do have a number of venues who
update their listings on a weekly basis, so we must be doing something right
by them.
So it's sort of a three link chain:
1\. help the fans to find bands they like (and help the band to promote
themselves to a wider audience) 2\. help venues find bands with the most fans
3\. connect these bands with the venues so the bands play in front of large
audience and the venue sells more beer.
Point 3 is where we get the revenue stream.
This is good stuff, and helping me see things a bit differently. Thanks
~~~
anigbrowl
Don't forget to close the circle - make sure the (local) fans know what's on
at the venues, even if it's unfamiliar to them. Remember being young and
single, and going out for the sake of going out. The exploratory and habitual
aspects of cultural behavior are at least as important as the directed ones -
but I'll stop here lest I start to sound like a marketing course :-)
Lots of luck, and congratulations on the baby!
------
khand01
Great site by the way. It seems like you have a lot of data already up there.
Is there a way you can leverage it to make it more valuable? Your target
audience is really 2 bases: fans and bands. For the fans: maybe track which
band or what venue gets the most clicks? For the bands: maybe provide a
resource on how to tour for bands... like a google maps plot of previous tours
of other bands... which venues treat bands the best (sort of like yelp)?
~~~
ibrow
Thanks for the compliments.
Along with @anigbrowl in the comment above there are really three main types
of audience: bands, fans and venues/promoters.
One of the possibilities is to charge for stats, how many visits, where are
they coming from etc. But I think this is only possible with a larger visitor
base (i.e. more unique visitors/hits).
I really like your idea for resources for touring, this could be a good thing
to go for, especially as it is all about helping the artists (which is
primarily what the blog focuses on). The yelp idea is great as well, and fits
in nicely.
But again it's how to make a return on these resource, is advertising the only
way?
Edit: after going through anigbrowl's comment above and thinking some more,
these resources will be a great way to help promote a band and build up a fan
base. Then hopefully we have some value here to the venues by helping them
find bands that will bring in the public. This is good stuff. Thanks
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved: Methane Bubbles - cwan
http://www.neatorama.com/2010/08/08/bermuda-triangle-mystery-solved/
======
ghnyujryjh
Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved: Proper analysis reveals nothing of
statistical significance.
Mine doesn't cling to any shred of mystery or danger, but I suspect it's more
accurate.
------
marknutter
Damn. It's never as exciting as you hope it will be.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Jimmy Wales responds: Is Wikipedia collecting more money than required? - kanamekun
http://www.quora.com/Wikipedia/Is-Wikipedia-collecting-more-money-than-required
======
mtgx
A foundation shouldn't wait until the very last minute to collect money and
pay their bills, like how the FreeBSD foundation did it, and then they
discovered they were 50% off for the whole year, with only a few weeks to go.
They should do it like I saw in some other place - raise money in 2012 for the
whole of 2013. Then raise money in 2013 for 2014, and so on. Don't raise money
in 2012 for 2012. That pretty much guarantees you'll be in a desperate
position by the end of the year. Better to plan a little ahead, if at all
possible, to increase the chances of survival of the foundation in the long
term.
So as long the extra money doesn't go into Jimmy Wales' pockets or something,
then raising more money than they need currently seems pretty smart to me.
~~~
danso
I've always been interested in their hosting costs. I'm sure the numerous
edits and user actions are the largest toll, but since Wikipedia encourages
hotlinking to their media assets, they pretty much act like an imgur-type
service, on top of serving the typical webpage...the bandwidth expended just
on images must be huge.
| {
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Huawei's Microchip Vulnerability Explained - octosphere
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48345509
======
londons_explore
The article fails to mention that non-US companies with any kind of connection
to the US are affected too.
The US sanctions affect pretty much all multinational companies.
| {
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Will Google stand up to France and Italy,too? - rams
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jan/13/google-china-western-internet-freedom
======
DenisM
It would be awesome to have decentralized social networking - no single point
of failure. Same way email is decentralized - you can always run your own
email server and enough people do to make it much harder to break or control
email compared to, say, Facebook. FB is exactly one company, which make it a
too convenient a target for overzealous regulation.
~~~
cmars232
Completely agree. I think the biggest problems facing such a shift though are
how to address "rendezvous" of the clients and the same critical-mass adoption
that plagues a traditional social networking contender.
~~~
DenisM
It's not just adoption - if distributed social network is impossible to
control it's also nearly-impossible to monetize using traditional means, hence
no one is likely to invest like they did into Facebook.
| {
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Ask HN: Is there a side project network? - joshmn
More specifically, is there a network for people to find others to collaborate on side projects with? I mean, we all know other developers/designers/marketers, but, the ones I know, are mostly too busy to take on another project.
======
swanson
There is <http://www.weekendhacker.net/>
Though I have always found most of the projects posted on that list to be
either sketchy ("I am a biz guy, build my thing!") or not weekend-sized.
~~~
ThomPete
Founder here.
Yeah it's been a little slow the last year. The reason for this are many but I
am working on getting it back in shape.
------
johnmurch
Something like <http://www.techcofounder.com> ?
~~~
joshmn
Similar to, yeah. The word startup usually implies that there's a lot of long-
term work involved. So that, but for weekenders or the guys who want to build
a quick MVP.
| {
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Uber vs. Lyft surge pricing - stestar7
http://www.surgeometer.com/
======
DrScump
posted yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526137](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526137)
| {
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Ask HN: Anybody else get ripped off via “Free Tea Friday” at Starbucks today? - masonic
All week, Starbucks here advertised a "Free Tea Friday" promo for their new Iced Tea Infusion drinks -- free from 1PM - 2PM today.<p>Well, the local Starbucks was slammed, with a 20+ minute wait in line and who-knows-how-long at the drive-thru. Anyway, when our order was rung up, we were being charged full price for the "free" tea. Turns out that the register time had slipped into 2:00 (and not even 2:01!) and "free" became <i>silently</i> un-free.<p>All of us who got in line less than 22 minutes or so early got left out. Stores apparently can't override this.<p>I can't imagine that the cost-of-goods for this (<i>pennies</i> per drink) would warrant alienating SO many people. We abandoned our order altogether and went to Peet's instead, and I personally will never buy that particular item.
======
dangrossman
Why is this on HN?
~~~
masonic
In general, it's a poor technological implementation for such promos to be
implemented as a hard clock-time boundary _with no workaround whatsoever_ at
the user level. There's a broad design issue to be considered here, for retail
and elsewhere.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Tell me it is not how it looks like, simpleCart - samzhao
http://www.screenr.com/qoQs
I just found a crazy little bug in the Javascript shopping cart plugin, simpleCart.js. I am a javascript noob. I do a lot of jQuery code writing and debugging at this stage, and I use Google Chrome. I found that if you change the price tag of any item using Chrome's "Inspect Element", you can purchase that item at any price you change it into. I don't know if there's something wrong with the demo shop, or the plugin itself is broken. Can some pros tell me if there's really something wrong?
======
marvinkennis
Last time I checked this actually worked in production as well, as the values
are changed before the form is submitted and no data is pulled from a server
to validate. So SimpleCart should be used for low traffic websites, where
orders are manually inspected, as they said on their github page
<https://github.com/wojodesign/simplecart-js/issues/150>
~~~
cjfont
Manually inspecting the price of each purchase, as an alternative to doing a
server-side check? That would be the equivalent of being able to change the
price associated with a product barcode and asking cashiers to verify the
prices for everyone's purchases.
~~~
marvinkennis
Ha, I know. I wasn't stating my own opinion there though. Adding in a server-
side check seems to be the only way to solve this (Note: My knowledge on this
subject is limited), but doing so removes the advantage they have, which is
the easy implementation. This would be cool if it worked flawlessly, but then
again, it doesn't (yet).
~~~
samzhao
Sigh.. I guess we have a winner between javascript and php now. (I heard a lot
of debates recently arguing the javascript would replace php)
~~~
cjfont
Javascript is not really the issue here, some things just shouldn't be done on
the client side.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The “too small to fail” memory-allocation rule - Athas
http://lwn.net/Articles/627419/
======
greenyoda
Even if you're not a kernel developer, this article is well worth reading
because it provides a warning about doing things in your code that would cause
a lot of suffering if you ever had to undo them in the future.
Here's the punch line from the article:
_The alternative would be to get rid of the "too small to fail" rule and make
the allocation functions work the way most kernel developers expect them to.
Johannes's message included a patch moving things in that direction; it causes
the endless reclaim loop to exit (and fail an allocation request) if attempts
at direct reclaim do not succeed in actually freeing any memory. But, as he
put it, "the thought of failing order-0 allocations after such a long time is
scary."
It is scary for a couple of reasons. One is that not all kernel developers are
diligent about checking every memory allocation and thinking about a proper
recovery path. But it is worse than that: since small allocations do not fail,
almost none of the thousands of error-recovery paths in the kernel now are
ever exercised. They could be tested if developers were to make use of the the
kernel's fault injection framework, but, in practice, it seems that few
developers do so. So those error-recovery paths are not just unused and
subject to bit rot; chances are that a discouragingly large portion of them
have never been tested in the first place.
If the unwritten "too small to fail" rule were to be repealed, all of those
error-recovery paths would become live code for the first time. In a sense,
the kernel would gain thousands of lines of untested code that only run in
rare circumstances where things are already going wrong. There can be no doubt
that a number of obscure bugs and potential security problems would result._
| {
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Programming in a Mad Max Wasteland - necrodome
http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/10/11/programming-in-a-mad-max-wasteland/
======
thristian
See also the Gary Bernhardt talk, Capability vs. Suitability:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NftT6HWFgq0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NftT6HWFgq0)
Some technologies are radical new developments designed to give people some
new capability they never had before. Other technologies are refinements of
some previous capability technology, restricting the capabilities but more
suitable for some particular problem-space or setting. It's not necessarily
"nobody has big ideas anymore", it's just a natural cycle.
On the other hand, if you want a less-charitable view, consider this:
programming in the 1980s was dominated by ideas from C, a language developed
in the 1970s. Programming in the 1990s brought the influence of Smalltalk, a
language developed in the 1970s. The 2000s saw the introduction of functional
programming ideas from Lisp, a language developed in the 1970s. These days,
the hot new programming language features are being taken from Standard ML, a
language developed in the 1970s. Someday the 1970s will be mined out, and then
we can start coming up with new ideas again.
~~~
i_feel_great
Great. I can't wait for Forth to happen again.
~~~
kjs3
Forth never went away. It's the same tiny pack of fanatics impotently shaking
their collective fists at the rest of the world and proclaiming everyone else
is just not smart enough to 'get' Forth.
------
lordlarm
Maybe it's just a sign of todays technology reaching some sort of early
maturity?
You don't see many new revolutionary cars around either - or at least they all
conform to the same idea having four equally sized wheels, 5 seats and a round
steering wheel. I'm guessing 100 years ago you saw many alternative
"paradigms" in the car making domain too, before our society settled on
something that worked for the majority of us.
~~~
seanmcdirmid
We are seeing revolutionary cars now, though...who would ever thought that
they would begin driving themselves?
Likewise, some more self driving in PL would be nice, it is way too hard and
tedious today then it probably needs to be, suggesting there is still a lot of
room for improvement.
~~~
venomsnake
> who would ever thought that they would begin driving themselves?
Any sci fi author since the 50-s?
~~~
seanmcdirmid
Surely it was conceived of, but did we think it would happen in our lifetime?
There are still people out there who won't think it will happen.
~~~
kedean
I mean, it's been in the works publicly for quite some time. I remember
watching documentaries about efforts on self-driving cars in an 'exploring
tech' class back in 2002.
------
jerf
In order to see genuinely new developments, you need to be in an environment
where something genuinely new is happening. Most modern languages are some
combination of decades old, or semantically essentially identical to languages
decades old. If it seems like we're mostly shuffling the same basic ideas
around and recombining them in those environments, well, yes, we absolutely
are.
This is not as bad as it seems. There is something to be said with engineering
with time-tested and well-established components. Even imperfect components
with well-understood imperfections may be preferable to things that aren't
well-understood, but some guy somewhere says may be theoretically perfect. But
the flip side of the landscape being well-explored is that there is little new
stuff to discover.
Two major places where you can see legitimately new stuff come to mind. First,
Haskell. By being seriously, no foolin' concerned about purity and
immutability, there's been a lot of work done in Haskell that in any other
language, even those that sort of came close, was done by simply doing
something impure and calling it a day.
Second, Rust. At the moment my perception of the community is that it is very
young, the language is still changing significantly, and the concern right now
is more about making new things work at all in the new paradigm than about the
best way to do them. There's a big influx right now of the very new
programmers who will later be doing new experiments, but they're still
learning. Such exploration is absolutely necessary. But in the next year or
two I bet we start to see a transition to more genuinely new things as the
capabilities start to sink in, and the feedback loop between the real programs
people are writing and what features the language grows develops.
(Personally, if you're really _interested_ in new things, I'd stay here rather
than go to the really academic languages. It is my perception that the
academic languages often have serious problems because they've cut themselves
off from the practical world and severed themselves from an incredibly
valuable feedback loop, the one that Haskell has used to propel itself to what
success it has by actually letting real programmers into the sandbox to try to
do real work. Academia is, in its own way, stuck in a rut right now at the
limit, IMHO, where it all sort of looks very same-y to me.)
~~~
kibwen
> the language is still changing significantly
Rust itself isn't changing these days (except for once-in-a-while adding new
features backwards-compatibly), we're on to the next stage of maturity where
only the libraries are rapidly changing and the prevailing idioms are still
shaking out. :P
------
erikb
Often when a community gets bigger, the cool "garage band" type of things
still happen. Its just that they are drowned by the pop culture in the media.
You need to look in specific corners.
For programming languages I know the google term "conlangs" and I know that
there is a scientific lang development place called "lambda the ultimate". If
you want to see and use the cool stuff, look for that.
------
ilaksh
Its not possible to do anything really new and still qualify as 'programming'.
The sad reality is that programmers write cryptic mainly textual code using
complex tools. If you invent something better it must be for 'users'. No self-
respecting programmer would be caught using a tool for users.
Its pretty dumb, but then again, programmers are pretty dumb since they're
people.
------
moomin
It's happening right now in Haskell. The question is which ideas will filter
down and when.
------
lmm
Anything truly innovative is likely to be on the impractical side, whether
academic or otherwise.
But if you're looking for technology that's just making the transition from
academic to practical, check out Idris, as one of the comments suggests.
------
adwn
Well, at some point you actually have to gather some good, proven ideas and
use them to build a tool to solve real, everyday problems.
Radically new, exciting languages exist, but they're not yet practical.
------
verroq
>I haven't see it, therefore it doesn't exist
------
mizchief2
Would love to see a post-apocalypse style series where hackers are heavily
involved using old smart phones, wifi routers etc. to cobble together
technological solutions for survival
| {
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The Changing of the Guard (1991) - wyndham
https://tricycle.org/magazine/changing-guard/
======
wyndham
These are related and I also found them interesting.
[http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/exegesis/sex-shoes-and-
calif...](http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/exegesis/sex-shoes-and-california-
zen/)
[https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/encounter-shadow-buddhist-
am...](https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/encounter-shadow-buddhist-america/)
Those are historical articles but this one is about recent events:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/nyregion/shambhala-
sexual...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/nyregion/shambhala-sexual-
misconduct.html)
| {
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Advanced exception handling - fogus
http://vmathew.in/cond-sys.html
======
mtomczak
I've heard this approach described as a failure continuation, and it's a good
approach. It's much easier to do in a language that allows for easy creation
of closures. Such a system wouldn't be impossible to construct in C++; you
could create an ErrorHandlers object that is passed as the last argument of
every method and contains instances of some kind of "RestartCase" object. But
I cringe at the amount of boilerplate that would be required to support such
an approach.
------
wlievens
Actually I've seen recoverable exceptions in C++, at my previous employer
(ARM's Belgium office) using all sorts of creepy long jumps. It was ancient,
arcane code, but it still worked - and was cross-platform.
| {
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Science Fairs Aren't So Fair - klunger
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/03/why-science-fairs-arent-so-fair/387547?single_page=true
======
wyager
I did a lot of science fairs in high school. I was pretty good at it, too; I'm
currently paying for college with the help of some military research
scholarships I won at an international science fair.
Here's my perspective on the whole thing. Take it as you will.
At the regional science fairs (where everyone starts out), there are a lot of
people there who are only doing it because they have to. Usually, their high
school requires it. A lot of these projects are shit, and a lot of them also
clearly stole the idea or got help from their parents. All of these get
eliminated at the regional level.
Then, we have the state level fairs.
When it comes to engineering projects (mechanical, electrical, or computer),
almost 100% of the projects are actually done by the students themselves. It's
very easy for engineering judges to tell when someone's bullshitting or didn't
actually put in the work, so almost none of the bullshitters make it to the
state level. Most of these people don't have any immediate family members who
could help them, even if they wanted help.
When it comes to biological sciences (medicine especially) the situation is
much different. Almost everyone in this category knows their shit, but it's a
lot harder to say if they actually did the work themselves or not. A lot of
the projects absolutely _require_ that the students work in industrial lab
environments. It's impossible for a student doing MRSA research to work in a
lab below BSL-2, for example. A lot of these students get lab access through
their parents (who may be doctors or researchers or something), so it's very
likely they are working alongside their parent, and it's possible that they
are working with the help of their parent. A huge portion of students doing
this kind of research _do_ have an immediate family member who can (and, with
some likelihood, does) help them.
Because it's much harder for judges to sniff out people who didn't do original
work in the biological sciences category, you get a lot more bullshitters in
this category making it all the way to the top science fairs. They're still
usually experts in whatever they're researching, but they didn't necessarily
put in the thought or effort themselves.
When I was at Intel's international fair, the guy who won the top prize
claimed to do some sort of cancer-detection research. It was pretty impressive
stuff, but after the science fair a whole bunch of incriminating stuff came
out. IIRC, there was some situation where his parent had a position of power
at some major research university, and he essentially plagiarized the research
of some researcher there with minor changes, but it was soon enough after the
actual research that no one caught it.
I can't speak as much to the other categories (sociology, mathematics, etc.).
I didn't have a lot of experience with those.
~~~
pcrh
>it's much harder for judges to sniff out people who didn't do original work
in the biological sciences category
This applies to biological research all this way up the chain, including
research done at top Universities, and by "top men".
~~~
robmcm
Perhaps we should only fund the women then.
------
ChuckMcM
Wow a lot of parental angst there. Lets take a paragraph out of that which
summarizes this:
_" Last year my son, who was in third grade at the time, came home with a
sheet of paper from his school that listed three categories for appropriate
projects: developing a hypothesis and conducting an experiment to test that
theory, inventing something new, or researching 'something specific.' The
guidelines listed 'whales' as an example of something specific. Given that my
son was 8 years old, the idea that he could, on his own, do any single one of
these things seemed ludicrous."_
Ok, so here we have a parent which completely doubts what their kid can do. In
my experience this is a pretty bad place for a parent to be, as the kids seem
to _always_ be more capable than parents expectation.
But the author really drives it home here:
_" Even the easiest of these items—researching a topic—is nearly impossible
for a child who hasn’t yet mastered the ability to browse the Internet. (As a
parent and the founder of a tech company, I’ve observed that in order to
browse the Internet one needs to know how to scan the screen, differentiate
between actual content and ads, and evaluate the trustworthiness of a
resource—elements that are far out of reach of most 8-year-olds.)"_
Get that? Browse the Internet? Here is a question, how hard is it to pick up
the volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica with the big "W" on the spine and
turn to the page on "Whales" ? Not that hard. I'm sure the problem with that
is that an 8 year old cannot be expected to drive themselves to the library.
(only half joking).
But in context it says volumes about the _parent_ and very little about the
_child_. Even the poorest child can research things like the kinds of insects
that live in their neighborhood. The sad part about this article is not that
Science Fairs are not fair, its that parents don't know what science _is_ and
so cannot help there children develop a sense of wonder and discovery.
And what is truly heartbreaking for me is that the author's child has no hope
of learning what science is from this person, and if they don't get it in
school, well they will grow up believing anything they read on the Internet as
truth. That makes for a very sad story indeed.
~~~
needleofjustice
Yup, I agree! If we want to point fingers, lets point them at people of
influence who should know better. But authors of internet articles are fairly
low on that totem. Leaders in the sciences, public-policymakers, educators and
marketers should all be held accountable for the public perception of science.
On one hand, science should be taught as an art. It is a creative endeavor,
and when well-taught it engages the mind naturally. Why aren't we asking these
kids what interests them and helping them apply the appropriate science?
On the other hand, science is incredibly useful and necessary to understand
the world today, and fix the bugs in our social systems that otherwise are or
will cause human suffering.
I think finding a handful of heroes to fix all our problems is dumb. We are at
a point where fulfilling the greatest potential of all humans should be the
goal of any thoughtful person.
Let people fix their own problems, but also let them borrow your tools. And
science is an amazingly cool set of tools for fixing things.
------
timr
I've been disgusted for years by the parade of "winners" of the major science
fairs, most of whom have privileged access to research labs, wealth, or both.
Because, protip: no high school student can do graduate-level scientific
research. When you see that, it means that the student had special access to a
lab that was already doing the work.
And yet, year after year, these folks are given lucrative scholarships and
trotted out by the media as examples of the best-and-brightest scientific
talent. There's no way to reform it -- there's an incentive to game the
system, so parents will find a way to a game it. It's just one more example of
the perpetuation of wealth across generations.
~~~
zo1
_" It's just one more example of the perpetuation of wealth across
generations."_
You say that as if it's a bad thing. The thing you seem to be complaining
about is one of the wonderful things about parenting. I.e. to
impart/share/teach/give what you have accumulated over your life. Whether that
is something physical, or intangible such as knowledge, makes no difference.
~~~
superqd
I agree with this. I struggled at first (with my daughter's performance in a
recent science fair), but realized that my experience was a gift I could give
to her in the form of a better-than-average ability to explain seemingly
complicated ideas to an 8 year old. And to provide somewhat expert guidance on
the scientific method itself.
To a certain extent, this happens in many other ways at schools as well. I
mean, those kids with very athletic, or sports oriented, parents, may be more
driven or have better guidance in athletic endeavors that would my kids. But
we seem not to care about that (until the parents are screaming during a
game).
And likewise with music, or art, and so on. So I think I've decided not to get
too concerned about how others might view my daughter's work on her project.
It would be unfair (to her) if I decided _not_ to give her explanations that
were the benefit of my own experience.
------
Hydraulix989
Anecdotal evidence to the contrary: I was from an unprivileged background
growing up in a dying blue collar steel town outside of Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania that used to be the company town for ALCOA.
I was that one weird kid that was really into computers instead of football
like everyone else. I taught myself C++ programming, OpenGL, and matrix math
in high school because I wanted to develop 3D games.
I convinced my high school principal to let me enter a flight simulator that I
wrote during summer break of sophomore year into the Pittsburgh Regional
Science Fair (at my own expense), and I won. I remember standing on stage
sticking out like a sore thumb from the usual snooty, upper class high schools
that everyone knew from around the area.
That day, I met a robotics professor at CMU who was one of the judges, and
that introduction, along with sending a DVD video of my work to a few top
universities with my college application ended up changing my life.
------
primitivesuave
I judge high school engineering projects at the Synopsys Science Fair and
California State Science Fair, and have become quite skilled in BS detection.
Aside from the usual methods to detect BS, the most revealing question in my
experience has been _" what problems did you run into while doing this
project?"_ I ask this question to every student regardless of whether I think
their project was BS or not, and the responses from legitimate students are
usually sincere admissions of incompetence, while the response from a BSer is
some inconsequential roadblock that they easily overcame. Students who are
willing to submit a project where they did not produce the actual content will
be willing to pawn off any experience or skill as their own, and will vastly
overstate their abilities. The students who are humble about what they have
accomplished and understand the full implications of their work are usually
the ones who produce original work and win science fairs.
This year, I saw a project where a high school senior used deep power analysis
and machine learning to break AES 128 on a microcontroller
([https://instagram.com/p/0JzlxBoIaJ/](https://instagram.com/p/0JzlxBoIaJ/)).
The student was from a prestigious private school, and the project required an
expensive high-precision oscilloscope. Naturally I assumed that he had bought
the project off eBay, so I didn't hold back in my questioning. But after I
began questioning him, it quickly became clear that this was just an
exceptionally bright mind who was willing to put hundreds of hours into deep
understanding of a topic and reading the relevant research, before embarking
on some original work of his own. He iterated over many possible solutions,
and had an incredible demonstration of a working one. When I asked him
difficult cryptography questions, he answered them precisely. And when I
questioned him on his research methodology, he was humble in acknowledging his
shortcomings and truthful in citing the research that guided certain aspects
of his project. It is unfair to the exceptional few students capable of
producing such a project to assume that all high school students are incapable
of doing graduate-level research.
~~~
timr
...or, you were fooled, and your methodology for BS detection isn't perfect.
I've seen, first-hand, kids who were coached to perfection at this sort of
thing. And they could easily pass your test: one common pattern is for the kid
to be handed a "project" that is pre-conceptualized and nearly complete, and
have them do the last 5% of work in consultation with a senior researcher
(typically a post-doc).
The kid basically flails around for a while, struggles a lot, and learns to
talk the talk, but doesn't do much of anything in terms of productive work. So
they'll struggle like crazy and hang around brilliant, hard-working people
(and therefore be humbled and able to pass your test), but that doesn't mean
they did the research.
Doing a research project end-to-end takes _years_ of concerted effort. It's
almost completely unrealistic to think that a high school senior has put in
the time.
~~~
primitivesuave
I get what you're saying. Think about it from the perspective of the dishonest
student though - they're handed a project that does some amazing thing, and
need to pass it off as their own work. Unless they have the domain knowledge
around that amazing thing, they couldn't possibly have done the amazing thing,
and science fair bullshitters are generally not willing to put in the time to
get a deep understanding of the area their BS'd project is in. The student I
mentioned had a deep knowledge of cryptography, and with that understanding
and the knowledge of relevant scientific research, was able to build something
new that did an amazing thing. But if he was handed that project, I doubt he
would have the motivation to research crypto to the extent that he did, or be
conversant with another person. And most importantly, _he knew what he didn 't
know_.
------
lutorm
I've judged at the local school science fair in California, at the Intel ISEF
a bunch of years ago, and I was also part of the organization that arranges
the national science fair (Utstallningen Unga Forskare) in Sweden. Hence, I
think I have some perspective on this topic.
The American science fairs are a completely different thing from what we did
in Sweden. First, the Swedish one is strictly for 17-19 year olds. But more
importantly, the Swedish one is not a competition -- the whole idea is that
you do this voluntarily, because you have some project you are excited about,
and because you get feedback about your project from real scientists.
What purpose does it serve to make it a competition? Isn't the idea to
encourage the idea that science and engineering is fun and interesting? Making
it a competition just serves to accentuate the issues mentioned in this
article: giving an extreme advantage to kids who have access to professional
equipment and personal mentoring.
And the whole thing about doing "original science" is ludicrous, especially
when it's applied to middle school kids. What matters is whether the outcome
is known _to the student_ , not to the world. Kids engage in authentic inquiry
every day, and whether the topic is "original science" or not matters not one
bit.
If the choice is between the kid who investigated how different rubber bands
shoot rocks of different sizes, but did it by his or herself vs. the one who
was hand held through some fancy-sounding project at their parents lab, my
choice will go to the former every time.
And yes, maybe there are super prodigies out there who actually mastered a
research field enough to not only be able to do cutting edge research but also
to know enough to pick a topic that is as high school students. I'm not
worried about those kids, they don't need encouragement.
------
martythemaniak
The Simpsons noticed this phenomenon and proposed a solution 20 years ago.
[https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/originals/79/78/1d/7978...](https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/originals/79/78/1d/79781db88dbbcde81febb7537554c684.jpg)
"And the award goes to the kids who clearly didn't have any help from their
parents"
~~~
busyant
I'm right in the middle of this. I have two sons (11 and 8 yo).
Yesterday was the cub scouts Pinewood derby. The "kids" each build a 4-wheeled
car out of a pinewood block. There are various rules that need to be adhered
to. I resisted putting my stamp on the cars, but ___most_ __of the cars in
that derby looked like they were machined by Ferruccio Lamborghini. My kids '
cars looked like someone had vomited on a block of pinewood. They did okay in
the race, so that made me happy.
On the other hand, my 11 yo has an upcoming science fair at his elementary
school. This time, I "became what I hate", because I helped him a little too
much. I got lab equipment from work.
We're not doing anything fancy, but my "fingerprints" are all over it. He's
making the poster, but I told him that the poster should contain his name and
also state "with help from Dad."
~~~
dalke
I'll share my first science experiment that I was happy about. I came up with
it in a college class, so well after my science fair days, but it might be
something your kids could do.
There was pathway with a circular fountain in the middle. The path goes around
the fountain. People have the choice of going left or going right. On the
outside of the path are benches. My question was, will people avoid walking
near someone sitting on the bench?
I still remember the numbers. I only measured it when a person was walking
alone on the path. If no one sits then 90% of the people veer right to go
around the fountain. (Clearly I want to re-do this in the UK.) When I sat on
the bench on the right side, only 80% of the people would take the right. 10%
of the people changed their path to avoid me, sitting on the bench, reading a
book.
This is the sort of observational research that your eldest could easily do.
Observational research the basis for a lot of research, though often
overlooked in favor of flashier technology and lab equipment. The author of
one book I read - I believe he was a field biologist - wrote that he gets
asked how to encourage someone's child to get involved in science, and he
suggests to buy a hand-held click counter.
[http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/revolving-
doors/](http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/revolving-doors/) is an example
of how test which sign is the best way to get more people to use a revolving
door than a regular door, with the goal of reducing the heating bill.
Down this way also lies eccentricities, like John Trinkaus, who won an IgNobel
Prize
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners#...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners#2003)
for publishing reports like "percentage of young people wear baseball caps
with the peak facing to the rear rather than to the front". That's pure
observational studies, with no experimental variable or control. It won't do
well in a science fair.
------
droopyEyelids
I feel like it's impossible for many people to acknowledge the fact that the
world isn't fair.
To me, that's the basic assumption that you have to start with. Afterwords,
you're free to figure out how to make things more fair, but if you don't start
out understanding that things will always be messed up, you're left with a
senseless rant.
From what I got through it seems like the author was upset that some parents
can spend more time with their kids and that teachers were setting a high
standard, and that wealth in families can function as a privilege for
children. Those seem like pretty fundamental issues to me. The science fair is
maybe like a microcosm of life that way, but I didn't get what was a problem
unique to it.
~~~
VLM
On paper the kids do the work, but in practice, its more "what can they get
away with".
I made it to the state region levels as a kid with a lame project, but I did
it all myself, and I remember walking the aisles thinking to myself, "I can
probably win against that kid, but there's no way I can win against that kid's
Dad who obviously did all the work"
The pinewood Derby in scouts kind of suffers from a similar problem, "who's
dad has the best woodworking shop"
This might be a useful life lesson, in that on a very large scale the first
thing you learn in business, politics, law is whats right or legal doesn't
matter, its all in what you can get away with and who your parents are, and
the top players tend to be better at getting away with things and won the
genetic lottery. A meritocracy ... of crooks. And that's an education all in
itself that will provide a lifetime of benefits once understood at an early
age. So I'm not necessarily seeing a problem with education kids.
~~~
spiritplumber
That's not the sort of lesson I want kids to learn. Including my kids.
I want kids, including my kids, to learn that life is fair and if they don't
see it be fair, they have to sit down and fix that.
------
VLM
This quote shows something really bad, although it wasn't explicitly
discussed:
"But at the three fairs I’ve attended over the last several years, the unknown
rarely makes an appearance. At my son's fair last year, at least a handful of
students did the popular "experiment" in which the "scientist" waters plants
with three different liquids—one of which is typically soda or detergent—to
determine which is best for plant growth.
"Were you surprised that water made the plant grow?" I asked one child after
she presented her experiment.
"No," she said."
Aka "Science = boring and predictable and uncreative" Which is pretty much the
opposite of reality, although a fairly accurate example of K12 science
education...
Try harder kids? I put 10 seconds into it and got the idea of pond water,
fresh chlorinated tap water, and collected rain water?
Then again, some decades ago I successfully won the local grade school with
what boils down to a grid of detergents/soaps vs sources of dirt. (edited to
highlite that dumb project ideas are not a recent invention of 2015, I mean
think about it, a hypothesis that clothes detergent cleans dirt from cloth the
best is lame, although what cleans kitchen grease was a good question, I think
hand soap won?)
There is an interesting side dish of some fairs in some decades have allowed
research projects or "inventions", which is pretty lame. Do science, do a book
report, or do an art project, but don't confuse yourself into thinking the
three activities are indistinguishable.
~~~
therealdrag0
Yeah, they need to be encouraged to ask questions about what happens in their
lives. Stuff that they genuinely care about.
For example, the other day I was peeing and though, "Is there less splatter by
aiming my pee above the water line or below the waterline?" If I was Richard
Feynman, I'd probably actually do an experiment. Now that may not be allowed
in a school fair, but it's an example of a trivial everyday thing that one can
wonder about, and design an experiment about, yet maybe hasn't been
established as fact (like plants like water).
~~~
thaumasiotes
Below the waterline. All you need to do to learn this is pee with bare legs.
;p
------
mrdrozdov
As a kid, I remember science fairs being an enjoyable time to run around a
gymnasium learning about cool things with my friends and classmates. There
were two projects that I actually remember vividly. One involved measuring
distance using laser pens. The other was about how to make different sounds
with wine glasses filled of water. If I dig deep into my memory, I think that
I probably had one that involved plants, the light spectrum, a vinegar plus
baking soda volcano, plus a few more that all probably came out of a science
fair book I found in the library. The point is that none of them were
scientifically ground breaking as say a new method for pancreatic cancer
detection, but I still got almost perfect grades. I never did win any awards,
certainly not any monetary ones, but I learned a considerable amount from the
hands on experience.
Since that time, I've gone to a top 10 engineering school, have written
research papers, and even have a patent. I'm applying for PhD programs now to
study Artificial Intelligence, which I think is as noble a cause as any, and I
haven't thought about my science fair experiences until reading this article.
My opinion on the science fair is that it should be more about playfulness and
exploration than competition. After all, science should be a team effort
rather than a battle royale, and we should worry more about helping one
another than whether Sally won because her parent's helped her cut
construction paper while Timmy was on his own.
If you are a parent worried that the science fair system is too corrupt,
perhaps steer your child towards the rise of high school hackathons. I
mentored high school students at MIT's Blueprint and was amazing to see high
schoolers deploying machine learning solutions after less than 24 hours. The
best part was that the hackathon itself was run by college students who are
there to help any way they could, which could be one way to level the playing
field.
------
Glyptodon
I stopped reading when the author basically implied that making a trifold
poster about whales was too much to ask of her third grader because it would
require using the internet.
There are probably a lot of problems with science fairs, particularly at
higher grade levels. But her example is pretty terrible.
My 2nd grade science fair project was making a book about the planets. I chose
it because I thought space was cool.
All it involved was checking out space books from the school library and then
putting a page for each planet in a binder with facts like how big the planet
is or how far from the sun along with a hand drawn picture (ie a circle with
moderately correct colors). I think there were some extra pages for the Sun
and a random moon or two.
It could have easily been a trifold poster with most of the same stuff. I had
loads of fun because I liked learning anything about space. It could have
easily been about whales or something else if that's what I was interested in.
But all it took was some help from the school librarian: "I want to do my
science fair projects on planets. Do you have any books about planets?"
The next year I found a book of experiments in the school library and did one
of them and explained it on a trifold. It was fun and not rocket science. I
think most of the "experiments" in the book required stuff like rubber bands,
paper, and straws.
I'm not clear why finding a few books in the school library and making a
trifold poster is a headache for an elementary school student.
After that I never attended a school with a science fair, but I think it was
perfectly reasonable the few years I did participate.
------
protomyth
"Even the easiest of these items—researching a topic—is nearly impossible for
a child who hasn’t yet mastered the ability to browse the Internet. (As a
parent and the founder of a tech company, I’ve observed that in order to
browse the Internet one needs to know how to scan the screen, differentiate
between actual content and ads, and evaluate the trustworthiness of a
resource—elements that are far out of reach of most 8-year-olds.)"
Given your child a book (or ebook I guess). Wow, just wow. Has the
disappearance of things like encyclopedias increased the barrier of entry to
knowledge?
Science fairs (or "Imagination Fairs" as they seem to be called) could be fun,
but I get the feeling this is a lot of parents ruining something cool to be
competitive.
------
joshontheweb
I remember science fairs. I definitely had help from my parents and/or my
partners parents. I don't think we ever won anything more than an honorable
mention but the experience was really great. One time we did a soil erosion
study looking at what kind of tiered mounds would erode less. The second one I
forgot what the hypothesis was, but it got me and a friend to study blood and
come to an understanding of clotting via platelets. My friends mom was a nurse
and had us into the hospital to use the microscopes and take microscopic
pictures of blood. The most fun was building an electric motor with my dad
(RIP) out of nails and copper wire. I think the test was to see what manners
of winding the wire would produce a faster motor. Nothing ground breaking. I'm
sure we could have found the answers through study and not testing but it sure
helped me grasp the concepts better. These were all elementary school projects
and pretty rudimentary but it taught me that you are able to figure things out
on your own. You don't necessarily need someone else to do it for you. Not an
argument with the article really, just my own experience.
------
learc83
I remember what I learned from going to the state science fair in middle
school:
how to fabricate results when the testing apparatus you built isn't sensitive
enough to actually conduct the experiment.
I think science fairs could be greatly improved if they were more accepting of
failed experiments.
------
utunga
The time I spent with my dad building a model of a turbofan jet engine - with
real spinning blades - for our local science fair, is one of my fondest
memories of him. And while it is true that he helped a lot we also did all the
work _together_. Just sayin'.
------
bsder
This is why "bucket of bolts" competitions are better.
"The task is X. Here is the bucket of parts you are allowed to use. Build the
best solution you can."
Given the current state of robotics, an alternative is: "Here is the robot.
The task is X. Write the program to pull that off."
However, those kinds of competitions require _way_ more work on the part of
the organizers.
------
haneefmubarak
related:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208624](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9208624)
I was going to put it all in one comment, but I wasn't sure what the HN
character limit was.
------
superqd
This was rather timely, for me. I have been struggling with the assumption
that my daughter's science fair was due to me, rather than her. I was very
proud of her work/effort, and wanted to share that with friends/family, but
many of the reactions were, essentially, "well, it was really you who won".
And that couldn't be further from truth.
Now, one reason, I assume for this reaction, is due to two things: 1) they
know I'm science nerd (I have a degree in physics), and 2) she's really young,
but won for the whole school (she's in the second grade, and won 1st place for
the school, and her own grade). They say this, without even knowing what she
did or how she did it. To me, the entire point of the fair is to get kids AND
parents involved in science, while exposing kids to the scientific process.
So, to me, I get my daughter to do as much of her project as she can. And even
things she can't do, I still get her to try, even when it takes her a long
time (like typing her slides that get glued to her board - she types with one
finger pecking very slowly). But she loved the work, and felt like she was
learning something. Her experiment was incredibly simple (literally a cup of
water and a timer), and she thought of the procedure herself, and the question
she wanted to answer was hers.
But, even after I explain this to someone, they still feel my daughter was
unfairly advantaged, or at the very least, was given some better than average
coaching, because of my background/experience. To a certain extent, I kind of
agree on that point. I do try really hard to explain the concepts to her in a
way that an 8 year old can understand. But, ultimately, it all comes down to
her. The idea and experiment were hers.
When I walked the gym and saw the other experiments/projects, many were highly
decorated and beautiful (my daughter's had no decoration, just a title and the
required sections with text in her own words). And many experiments had rather
elaborate processes, and/or complex devices. Sadly, I too thought that many
parents were at work, rather than the kids, even knowing how much I made my
daughter do on her own. But it all seems to come down to the kids. And, some
here have mentioned, the judges are pretty good at detecting BS. So although a
perusal of the fair wouldn't make it obvious which kids did their own work, or
how much they really learned, and that's where the assessment of the judges
has to be taken into account.
And it was that that made me feel better about my daughter's work. I was proud
of her, because I knew that it was she who did it, and was glad the judges
were able to see it. But I totally know that many parents do over-involve
themselves to the point the kids don't learn anything. It seems a difficult
balance to strike, but it does seem possible to distinguish the extremes.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
From Syria to Sudan: How do you count the dead? - DanBC
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/08/from-syria-to-sudan-how-do-you-count-the-dead?repost=hn
======
DanBC
(re)Posting this because I'm interested in the statistics bit of counting
things that are difficult to count.
> At least 122,683 Syrians have died violently since the civil war flared up
> four years ago, according to the Violations Documentation Center in Syria.
> Or perhaps the violent death toll is closer to 330,000, as reported by the
> Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. While initially reluctant to issue
> figures, the United Nations recently took a safe line and stated that
> 250,000 Syrians had died in the armed conflict. Such statistical
> irregularity is alarmingly common when it comes to counting the dead.
A while ago I posted this, which is similar, but has a detailed look at a
single incident: [http://www.irinnews.org/report/101008/nigerian-lives-
matter-...](http://www.irinnews.org/report/101008/nigerian-lives-matter-the-
baga-controversy#.VLgfDPtGW5B)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Beat the IE6 wolf! - aslamnd
http://beatie6.frontcube.com/
An alternative IE6 banner for your site inspired by "ie6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing" (http://statichtml.com/2011/ie6-countdown-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.html)article.
======
ck2
Saying something is "old" is not a good enough reason to make people give it
up.
Instead, tell them it's unsafe and insecure and it's free and super easy to
use a newer browser. Then you've got something. Tell them them IE6 won't be
deleted just in case they need to go back for some reason.
My car is over 10 years old, gets better mpg than many of today's cars and
still has airbags. An argument that "it's old, better upgrade" wouldn't fly
with me (unless somehow it was free and easy to upgrade, lol).
~~~
derefr
People understand the Moore's-law-kind-of-"old" better than you think, if you
give them the right analogy.
"Remember what Playstation 1 games looked like? A few scant polygons and
textures were all the hardware could manage. _Your browser is as old as a
PS1._ † Websites have gotten better, stronger, faster, and more technologic
since 2001, but you can't see any of that—because you're trying to view them
in a browser built on the expectation that the most complicated thing the
Internet had in store for it was shopping carts. Get a new browser, and see
what the last 10 years of progress have let us create."
† At the tail-end of its lifespan—but still.
~~~
ck2
People still using IE6 might not be gamers.
For example I have no idea what a PS1 was like (or PS2 for that matter?)
------
JacobAldridge
I don't use IE6, and haven't for a long time, so this is an assumption based
on trying to get into the mindset of someone who 1) _is_ still using IE6 and
2) has control over the update (ie, ignoring those in large corporates who
can't update themselves).
If I'm using IE6, do I even know what a "browser" is? Let along an "outdated
one"? And what, exactly, are the five colourful round things on the bottom of
the page? Ah, wait, one of them says I need to be using the 'e' with the
orange swoosh - quick check of my internet, and yes, I am using the 'e' with
the swoosh. Problem solved.
So the message needs to be clearer, given the self-selecting audience it's
targeting: Even "Your internet experience is slow and will attract more
viruses. Upgrade your speed and protection for free." sounds nice, but also
sounds like I'm the 1,000,000th visitor and I've won a free iPod.
Criticsm has been leveled that MSFT are pushing solely the upgrade to IE8,
just delaying the problem. And I'd love to see more of the world using Firefox
or Chrome. But if I am still using IE6 it's not because I understand my
browser options, or even what a browser is. It's because it works, and it's
familiar - pushing IE8 helps overcome the familiarity hurdle. And after all,
it's used for "exploring" the "internet" - I already visit Google, I don't
want to look at Operas or a Safari, and what the hell is a Mozilla?
Maybe "The Orange swoosh is better than the Blue swoosh. The latest version of
Internet Explorer is now available at no cost." It's not a long term solution,
but it _is_ based in reality.
I'm now going to have a shower to cleanse me of my pro-Microsoft argument.
~~~
notahacker
I'll go a step further: the person that uses IE6 really _shouldn't_ be
changing the software on their computer because a big shiny graphic on a
website tells them to. Either you're wasting their time because they don't
have the permissions from BigCorp to install stuff, or they don't know very
much about computers and shouldn't be downloading malware because ad banners
tell them they might get a virus or speed their computer up. Just because your
motivations are more noble doesn't mean that using the same design
antipatterns is a good idea.
The Microsoft banner is horrendous too. If you must (because your
functionality doesn't work on IE6), give them a text link to the Microsoft
upgrade page with a "You need to update your Internet Explorer for this site
to work correctly. You can do this by going to the Microsoft free download
page _here_. You can also find out more about the latest version by going to
Microsoft.com and searching for Internet Explorer".
Other options (probably via browserchoice.eu) should be secondary. And I say
this despite IE8 being a horrible browser I wouldn't use voluntarily.
------
shaggyfrog
I've showed some of these sites to a client as we have a Web app in the wild
and I want to avoid the inevitable IE6 support calls. He is reluctant to use
anything I've shown him so far since the language in the copy is always a
little too pointed. He's afraid that users will get scared off, and he's
probably right.
I think the default wording should use kid gloves, something like "To fully
take advantage of this website, please upgrade your browser". Or maybe "This
website uses advanced features that your browser does not support because it
is out-of-date".
Has anyone done any A/B testing?
~~~
aslamnd
Good point. I'm working on a new copy. Will update it soon!
------
jarin
I prefer <http://browser-update.org/> as it is a little less intrusive than a
centered popup.
Of course, you may want intrusive (like if your site is horribly broken in
IE6) or you may prefer not to direct users to a wordy explanation page, so
this is a pretty good option.
~~~
john-n
Thats not a very user-friendly site, lots of text, download links are not
clear. Keep in mind who your target audience are...
------
DjDarkman
OR you could just not write IE6 hacks and the users would suffer a little and
just catch on. The reason IE6 is still used is because IE6 hacks are still
used.
And btw, I wouldn't use that banner for one reason: I don't promote IE
download under no circumstances. IE8/9 may be hot now, but it will suck just
as bad in a few years as IE6 now.
------
th
This project has a similar purpose: <https://code.google.com/p/ie6-upgrade-
warning/> (this was created pre-ie6countdown)
------
paulbjensen
I have an enhancement to your image:
<http://twitpic.com/47epfb>
~~~
aslamnd
Yes, agree. Real enhancement comes when the IE is not in the list. :)
------
givan
sadly there is IE on that list, even if is a new version, after some time it
will become the new IE6, a buggy non standard browser, just ditch IE
completely and save the internet.
~~~
paulirish
"IE w/ Chrome Frame plugin" would be a better choice than asking them to
upgrade to IE8.
~~~
tomelders
No, that puts the burden of keeping IE up to scratch on Google, which is just
bizarre situation to be in. Chrome Frame is a quick fix, but it can't last
forever.
I'll bet £100 that IE will never be Standards Compliant. Microsoft have
demonstrated over and over again that they have no interest in being even
remotely Standards Compliant. It would be better for the Internet as a whole
if IE simply ceased to exist.
~~~
djg38
_No_ browser is standards compliant. That's impossible; the "standards", at
least pre-HTML5, contain ambiguities and self-conflicts. It's all a matter of
degree. And I can't agree with your assessment, Microsoft has shown interest
in improving their standards support repeatedly. Each browser was closer to
the mark than the last.
~~~
tomelders
But still miles behind the competition. Their improvements have been tiny and
often incomplete. The discrepancies are far too great to be passed off as "we
just need a little time to catch up". Microsoft aren't a bit player here. I'll
judge them by the same standards I judge myself or anybody else; IE is a sad
excuse for a browser, and IE9 will be just as bad as the rest.
------
unicornporn
alt="Download Interent Exploer"
Intentional spelling "mistake"?
~~~
aslamnd
Spelling mistake corrected. Thanks.
------
lazyjeff
Why is the image in .jpg? That's unfortunate...
~~~
aslamnd
Then what is the best format you suggest?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An Easy Mode Has Never Ruined a Game - ourmandave
https://kotaku.com/an-easy-mode-has-never-ruined-a-game-1833757865
======
babuskov
Easy mode has ruined games for me.
For example, Metal Slug 3. My steam stats show I used to play it for 100+
hours. Before they added easy mode via infinite continues, I was really
enjoying the game. I had to learn how every enemy behaves, where the powerups
would drop and plan strategies to beat bosses. Every day I would get a couple
steps further into the game and I could have played it for years. There's a
great satisfaction and getting better at something and seeing the results.
Then the change came and I completed the game in one afternoon. I didn't care
about all the cool enemy setups on later levels, because I could just bomb
them, die when I ran out of bombs and then bomb them again after I revive.
There was no real challenge.
I never turned that game on after that. Easy mode has ruined it for me.
~~~
jai_
I'm not sure I follow. I'm assuming the easy mode is something you have to
explicitly select or at least have to the option to change to and from. Could
you not have simply ignored the option of the easy mode and continued playing
the way you had done before?
~~~
babuskov
Once the option is there, it's hard to ignore it.
~~~
mrguyorama
That is not a given. Plenty of people ignore easy modes by choice, either
because they prefer harder games, or because they sneer at the "plebs" playing
"their" games
~~~
babuskov
Of course.
The thing is, once the option showed up, I turned it on once to try it. A
couple hours later and I beat the whole game. At that moment, I didn't even
know the game was ruined for me. It felt nice being able to see all the levels
and content.
But a couple days later, when I thought about turning it on, I figured there's
no point because I have seen it all.
It's so easy to fall into the trap of playing easy mode.
~~~
EliRivers
I wonder if part of the problem is the attitude that games are there to be
"beaten". That the aim is to beat it, and then you're done.
If games were seen as something to be played and explored rather than beaten,
perhaps people would approach them differently and get a lot more out of them,
even if they'd already completed a playthrough.
~~~
numo16
I read an opinion piece[0] recently that suggested one of the (many) reasons
that No Man's Sky was so poorly received at launch was due to the fact games
have commonly been boiled down to constant action and "gotta beat the game"
mentality, and that players don't know how to just explore and enjoy games as
an open-ended single player experience.
As someone who plays almost exclusively single player games across a vast
numbers of genres, I enjoyed No Man's Sky's "exploring and discovering the
unknown" game play at launch and have ever since, as they add more and more
content.
0: [http://www.thegeeklygrind.com/opinion-no-mans-sky-doesnt-
mul...](http://www.thegeeklygrind.com/opinion-no-mans-sky-doesnt-multiplayer-
problem-gamers-solitude-problem/)
~~~
setr
I’m pretty sure the bigger issue was that it was a very weak simulation, with
relatively little interaction. Exploring a simulation/procedural generation is
not about getting to view the infinite permutations that randomness gives us —
it’s to explore the _rules_ that create the simulation, and then to
_manipulate_ those rules.
The reason sim city and dwarf fortress are intersting, and NMS and Spore were
not, is because the simulation is sufficiently expanded as to be _worth
manipulating_ (while of course not being so expanded to hinder understanding
your manipulations; this is the craft); whereas NMS and Spore had very trivial
rules: they didn’t really have any. Which is also why when Dwarf Fortress
breaks down, its interesting, while in NMS, it’s pathetic.
Note that I’m only referring to NMS on release; though I doubt the simulation
has been developed since (I’d bet that the game has since gotten _prettier_
worlds, but not more interesting ones)
Tldr; it was poor simulation/generation game, regardless of whether the
current market has ADD
------
setr
If you consider interaction a core component of a game, affecting all other
aspects of the "experience", then _reducing_ that interaction, and level of
awareness, time, practice, etc that builds into the experience clearly alters
the experience.
Consider the extreme -- play through any given game with a mario super star..
it's difficult to imagine the game experience isn't radically changed.
These kinds of defenses for "easy" modes (that is, easier than the game was
designed for) seem to be fundamentally based on the idea that an optimal game
is simply a movie with some (perhaps optional) QTE's to keep you from getting
bored. But they're not. Clearly not all games get any benefit out of
increasing difficulty (most game's difficulty increase amounts to turning
everything into bullet sponges -- this rarely alters the experience in any
notable fashion), but that hardly means difficulty has no purpose or place.
An easy mode might not ruin the game.. but it may be a worthless mode to have,
and one that ruins the player's experience. The souls series would be
generally uninteresting if you weren't pushed towards playing careful and
meticulously. The DMC series would be generally uninteresting if you weren't
pushed towards better and faster (and more stylish) combo'ing. Shadow of the
Colossus, BioShock would have absolutely no impact/weight (incidentally, an
easy mode has been added I guess to latest remasters). Super Meat Boy wouldn't
even be a game anymore.
Imagine never experiencing 100 to 0 pikmin loss! Without that threat, is it
even the same class of game?
If you couldn't play them properly, it would probably be a waste of time.
Their stories aren't that interesting. They ain't books.
Of course, for many games it doesn't matter. Uncharted series really is just a
movie with some QTE events (and QTE events in the fashion of a cover shooter),
and difficulty isn't a factor. CRPGs/JRPGs generally have such uninteresting
encounters that you could rip out most of the non-roleplaying combat mechanics
and still have much the same thing (but you lose that sweet, sweet timesink).
Mass Effect 1 and Star Control 2 barely justify the existence of combat in the
first place (reduce the fuel needs in SC2 and you'll radically change its
early game however, probably much worse). They can be made easy... but it
hardly applies generally. And these are all examples where they can be made
easier, because they failed to make any use of their difficulty in the first
place.
~~~
fellellor
Also adding easy mode retroactively cheapens the experience for those who have
invested genuine effort into playing the game so far.
Also there is satisfaction in knowing you beat something that not everyone who
bought the game has.
~~~
setr
I’m of the opinion that these are somewhat pathetic reasons to maintain any
kind of design; let them be there, but they’re pretty minor. It’s not even
clear they’re emotions worth keeping around.
Anyways, take it away from them, and they’ll just find something else to latch
their identity to (eg speedrun). Or find it elsewhere. Not a big loss. A small
group (actually by definition), a shallow reason, a weak design motivator.
Games are _designed_ , with a particular experience, setting, balance, pacing
in mind; if difficulty is part of that design.. then its a part of the design.
That’s it.
Caveat:
Not all game features are actually part of a design.
Not all games have an intelligible design in the first place.
------
waste_monk
I really don't understand the drive to make everything easier. I've never
beaten a *souls game because I don't have the skill or patience to do so, and
I'm fine with accepting that. Why can't everyone else?
I do wonder if the trend towards casual and mobile gaming has stunted a
generation of gamers into being unable to cope when a real challenge of skill
or wit appears.
~~~
thatoneuser
Why lock away content that someone purchased just because they aren't talented
enough to beat your arbitrary tests? If you wanna play normal mode just do
that, I don't see why options are ever a bad thing.
~~~
rgoulter
Completing a sudoku on software which gives instant correct/incorrect feedback
on digits isn't as fun as puzzling it out together. Part of the fun of sudoku
is going through the mechanics, fairly.
I've heard the Souls/Bourne games described as "tough but fair". For some
games, the idea is that the fun comes from beating challenges from the design
of the game mechanics.
Similarly, there's fun to be had from Role Playing Games by not having magical
foreknowledge about consequences. Saving, and loading to see how each choice
plays out means the dynamic is "how can I get the best?" rather than "what
would this person do?".
~~~
thatoneuser
OK you've given me some opinions about why you personally wouldn't use easy
mode. What if someone else wants to? Why can't you just push the down arrow
and go to normal mode and let the people who want easy mode have an option?
Why the gatekeeping?
~~~
waste_monk
1) As mentioned in other comments, it would result in significant work to add
an easy mode, and the testing required to ensure the game is still balanced on
easy would cost (hourly wage of a tester * 40 hours or however long it takes
to beat the game * however many test playthroughs to get reasonable coverage)
- you could easily get to six figures in cost to add the easy mode.
2) The artistic vision of the games is to be difficult. Why should the
developers compromise that for people who are explicitly not in their target
audience anyway?
3) As the article says, beating one of these games is somewhat of an exclusive
club - difficulty gatekeeping is necessary to preserve that.
I haven't yet seen a valid argument for adding easy mode - they all are based
around the assumption that easy should be there, and has been taken away.
I don't buy disability as a reason to add it, considering a quadriplegic man
has beaten Sekiro, and the other arguments I've seen are things like "I don't
have the time anymore to beat games on full difficulty" which I don't find
compelling - the market is full of titles which cater for that.
~~~
thatoneuser
You're saying this like someone's holding the game company at gunpoint and
demanding an easy mode. This has always only been about it being ok for a dev
to add it if they want. Why are you fighting their choice to do that?
And... You don't think disability is a valid reason to add an easy mode? I
hope you see some of the raw shit life has to offer then because that's a
message that can only come from a place of very privileged contempt.
~~~
fellellor
You can't climb Everest if you are disabled also. So what? Should that
mountain be flattened to accommodate everyone.
From software games are hard and it's not like they cheated someone into
buying the game, who is not in the target audience.
Disability options that don't affect the design vision are not a problem. But
the developer should have the option to choose their market and audience.
------
mcv
To me, it really depends on the kind of game, and why I'm playing it. Some
games really are about the challenge. They're meant to be hard, because the
game _is_ the challenge. Remove the challenge, and there's no game.
Other games are about the content, the story, and the challenge is preventing
you from accessing it.
For example, I play The Witcher on easy mode, but strategy games on hard. I've
used save-scumming with some roguelikes, and that tends to ruin them a bit.
It's a core feature of roguelikes that you're not supposed to play like that.
I'm currently playing CK2 on Iron Man mode (no reloading old saves), which
means I'm forced to stick with bad decisions and bad luck, and that makes the
game different than I planned, but a lot more interesting; I'm no longer
automatically the most successful ruler in the world.
Although in the case of CK2, it does add value that I can also play without
Iron Man mode; it allows me to explore alternative histories where I'm more
successful than I deserve. But should a game like Pac-Man have an easy mode to
allow everybody to finish all levels? I don't think so.
------
Torgo
The entire movie/captioning analogy is off. Language spoken in movies isn't
meant to be adversarial but gameplay is. It's just not an accessibility issue.
I hate this argument because it feels manipulative. If it's about
accessibility and if you still say no, you're a monster.
~~~
dankusmcmeme
This is a typical strategy of far left media.
------
ManlyBread
Cheat Engine exists and it's a valid way of "correcting" the difficulty in
games. I enjoyed Resident Evil 2 hardcore difficulty but I found the saving
limitations weren't up to my tastes so I removed them.
------
Smithalicious
Oh come on. I have only played Dark Souls 1 but it's not even a particularly
difficult game. Just look up guides and summon and you can breeze through it.
There's a certain amount of "artistic vision" to a game like Dark Souls and I
see no need to compromise that to pander to people not willing to put the
effort in (and make no mistake, effort is the only factor at play here). The
difficulty is part of the game; if you don't like it, you just don't like the
game. Don't play it, don't demand it to pander to you.
------
danlugo92
Just please make clear what mode/difficulty level the creators intended me to
play.
------
apricot13
I find that every few weeks a new game that is going to require an entire year
of my life comes out. I have carved out about 1 hour 2-3 days a weeknight in
which to play and every few weeks I get a Saturday or Sunday. I like to have
the option of easy mode during the week and normal mode at the weekends - easy
mode gives me the advantage of not spending 50% of my playing time remembering
how to play!
Games should be accessible to all and you should never be made to feel less of
a gamer because you changed the difficulty setting.
------
throwawaystale
Game authors are welcome to do as they please, of course. But as someone who
both likes video games and is quite bad at them, I've pretty much stopped
buying them. Oh well...
------
provolone
They say the customer is always right. In game dev users will ask for extra
lives and powerful starting items in a multiplayer rougelikelike.
I don't think it can always be as simple as giving them everything. Users
should be catered to and given the best support, but at a certain point the
developer knows best.
The biggest players aren't always the most vocal. It is better to observe how
the fanatics are playing and help the newbies grow into that level of game
play.
------
Shorel
Batman Arkham City was, in my second playthrough, becoming rather boring.
Then I changed the difficulty to the highest setting and it was much more
interesting. I had to plan everything and take a lot of care to not to die.
In contrast, Alien Isolation is an unforgiving frustrating game in most
difficulties. I hope it gets better on a second playthrough.
------
Grue3
Yes, it does. If you have to play a long time before any meaningful challenge
appears, this makes the game not fun to play. People loved Flappy Bird because
it was so hard to avoid dying. Imagine Flappy Bird Easy Mode. Nobody would
play that.
------
lousken
Easy mode doesnt ruin a game. Lack of options does. E.g. GTA is easy mode and
you can't even change it. And e.g. Max payne 3 has difficulty settings but
even on hard it's still easy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple Employee Threatens to Leak User’s iCloud Data - ytch
http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1001890/apple-employee-threatens-to-leak-users-icloud-data
======
threwaway-1
Something about this article feels "off", as if it were a fabricated and
unsubstantiated story meant purely to sow uncertainty over the integrity of
Apple's security in China. It felt off enough that I bothered to look into who
this "sixth tone" publication is and create a throw-away -- according to
foreignpolicy.com[1], it's affiliated with and at least partially funded by
the state-owned Shanghai United Media Group.
[1] [http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/03/china-explained-sixth-
to...](http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/03/china-explained-sixth-tone-is-
chinas-latest-party-approved-outlet-humanizing-news/)
~~~
jtbayly
So what's your takeaway? I would assume that the last thing the state would
want to do is sow uncertainty about Apple's security in China. This would lead
me to the conclusion that the story is real.
However, I can imagine another scenario. Assume that Apple's storage in China
is still entirely safe from the state, but that Apple's main competitors are
totally in bed with the state. In that case, the state could want to get
people off of Apple, even as Apple moves the data into China.
~~~
threwaway-1
The latter would be my takeaway as well, based on how effectively Google's
search technology was extricated from China -- to Baidu's and the surveillance
state's benefit, despite the results from Baidu being about as effective at
finding useful information as AltaVista was at the end of it's reign.
------
sjroot
(Assuming this is a true story) this is very unsettling and makes me anxious,
not only for the Chinese people but also for companies that do business there.
_" I’m really curious why you don’t want to use Guizhou-Cloud Big Data’s
service," the technical advisor asked Qin during their recorded conversation._
This quote in particular made me cringe. If you haven't read the article,
Guizhou-Cloud Big Data is a state-owned service where Chinese customers'
iCloud data is now stored. The terminated Apple employee was implying that
that Qin had something to hide, and regardless of whether that is true, Qin
will surely end up on a government watch list after this ordeal.
Chinese HNers - what is the attitude over there in light of this and recent
actions taken by Xi Jinping and the communist party?
------
creator_lol
Chinese government must be just delighted with all of the data that they soon
will have access too from the US instance of iCloud coming to China. There is
so much information that people don't know that gets synced to iCloud. I am
constantly finding stuff that automatically get turn on after every OS update
from Apple.
~~~
huebnerob
Only the Chinese users data is transferring to Chinese servers, not all of
iCloud.
------
gumby
I don't understand this -- this "article" doesn't actually say that the Apple
employee had access to the customer's private data, only that the employee
made threats.
If the threats were credible that would be a big deal.
~~~
ytch
From the original post at Weibo (link in this article) in Chinese, the
affected user also claims the Apple customer support logged in his iCloud
account, since he receiving a login notification from Apple.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Breakdown of web-developer salary by experience, employer and location. - dc2k08
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Web_Developer/Salary
======
ssanders82
joelonsoftware has only had, oh, about 200 of these threads. But what the
hell: 26 y.o./PHP & C#/2-4 years exp./east coast/$40-50hr.
Question to anyone out west: is the freelance market any better than this? I'd
love to move out there this fall. What are you hourly-rate guys getting?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
DLang's betterC mode improves on C - grok2
https://dlang.org/blog/2018/02/07/vanquish-forever-these-bugs-that-blasted-your-kingdom/
======
grok2
The -betterC option in the D language makes think that switching to D (instead
of C where it would be used) would be a painless way to use a better language
with an easy transition path for programmers used to C.
The D language folks should do a better job evangelizing the use of D for
specific purposes rather than try to be everything for everyone. I see D as a
suitable replacement for everything that Go is currently used for and with the
betterC option it is also, I think, a good replacement for C in embedded
development.
~~~
wiredoc
I agree that D has a messaging problem. The folks doing Rust have been very
effective at promoting the rust language as a very good C/C++ successor for
systems programming based on a few key features, but I think D is actually a
better overall next step for people from the C/C++ world.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Recommendation engine for any website in minutes - justinyek
https://github.com/altitudelabs/metisa-js
======
justinyek
Hi, we built an easy way for any media or consumer app to incorporate a
Netflix-like personalization experience.
Demo: [https://altitudelabs.github.io/metisa-js/demo-movie-
app/](https://altitudelabs.github.io/metisa-js/demo-movie-app/)
Also ships with ability to send personalized emails and customer analytics.
Check it out and let us know if you have any feedback!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Foresight.js - Another responsive images technique - necolas
https://github.com/adamdbradley/foresight.js
======
tnorthcutt
This looks like an interesting alternative to Scot Jehl's picturefill
(<https://github.com/scottjehl/picturefill>). Obviously they're not entirely
analogous in their intent, but for the purposes of serving device-appropriate
images, they seem to be.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The Hubble Space Telescope Is Falling - breadbox
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/the-hubble-space-telescope-is-falling-96951f3e50e1
======
pinewurst
"The only planned apparatus capable of servicing or boosting Hubble, NASA’s
Space Launch System, has already seen its first planned flight slip behind
schedule."
I hardly think that a rendezvous demands the capabilities of SLS (or the
Senate Launch System as I choose to think of it). Really any booster that can
get to a ~300mi orbit with a reasonable payload could do the job.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Developing for IOS on a VM or "Hackintosh" environment - manuscreationis
Anyone have any experience or advice with this?<p>Looking for a low cost alternative to getting started with IOS development.<p>Any and all input welcome
======
TobbenTM
Tried VMs before with bad luck, never got it to work properly.
I did however run hackintosh on a Dell laptop (XPS M1330) which ran alot
better. Only problem was shutting down, where the GPU drivers would crash, but
everything else worked perfectly.
That would be a low cost alternative (got mine for ~150$) There may be a
better Dell suited for this, but this worked for me.
~~~
manuscreationis
I do have an old (very old) dell laptop kicking around... But I would need to
do some research on hardware compatibility. It's definitely nowhere near as
good as an XPS-anything would be; The thing is seriously under powered.
I'll keep this in mind, thanks!
~~~
pasbesoin
There's a site devoted to turning Dell's into Hackintoshes. I happened across
it some days back, coincidentally. Don't have the URL at hand, but I think it
had "latitude" in it.
------
coryl
Depends how good you are (or how much time you want to spend) with hacking
your system.
I had VMWare running, and it would be slow and occasionally freeze for no
reason. I also tried installing iDeneb to dual boot, and it was a pain in the
ass and didn't work.
Mac Mini's are about $500+. A used macbook pro can probably go for $700-$800.
~~~
manuscreationis
I was hoping to do it with either a VM, but fall back to a hackintosh if I had
to just to get going, then once I had some experience under my built an idea I
wanted to really execute on, go buy a used mac, or a mini.
Not seeing a lot of positive experience with the VM approach, however...
Shame
------
r4vik
I guess this is how I would do it: <http://www.macincloud.com/> more providers
on this quora thread: [http://www.quora.com/Virtual-Private-Servers/Can-I-get-
a-VPS...](http://www.quora.com/Virtual-Private-Servers/Can-I-get-a-VPS-that-
runs-Mac-OS-X)
~~~
phaus
I gave macincloud a shot for a couple of months. I like the concept but for
someone located on the east coast, the service didn't seem to work very well.
I contacted their customer service and they responded quickly. Testing
speedtest.net and a few other websites, we determined that my internet
connection should have been more than fast enough. Unfortunately it was still
taking about 10-20 seconds for the program to refresh the desktop once on the
settings reserved for low bandwidth customers.
The service didn't work very well for me due to the distances involved, but if
you live on the west coast I'd recommend giving it a try.
~~~
macrun
It works pretty well in the west coast here. They say that they are using real
Macs which is a big plus to get the latest updates for xcode etc.
Also, CoronaSDK, Titanium and GameSalad etc. are pre-installed. Very easy to
get started with those, although there are some lags due to screen refresh
rate.
~~~
phaus
Glad to hear it. I was really excited about the idea of using an actual mac.
Every time I buy a new computer I get really close to buying a macbook.
Unfortunately for Apple I love playing video games. It is really pathetic when
I go to buy a new computer after 2.5 years, only to find that latest and most
expensive macbook available (which is marketed as a graphics workstation mind
you) has a video card 1/3 the speed of the computer I am replacing.
If Apple found a way to add a semi-reasonable video card to their tiny cases,
I'd be happy to give them a shot.
------
xtrimsky_
I used a VM a few years ago, worked very well. And it was fast as I was doing
it on a desktop that had "Virtualisation Technology". Felt like using a real
mac. I remember I downloaded the VM via bittorrent. I think if you put Mac OS
X on a VM its illegal in any cases.
~~~
xtrimsky_
PS: I also installed Mac OS X on a dell previously. It works very well if you
have the right laptop, and have 30+ hours to spend trying to install it. Some
laptops cannot run it.
------
braco_alva
As previous comments said, it is a lot better buying an used macbook, I had
the same dilemma a year ago, tried with a hackintosh with no luck, a couple of
months later I found an used macbook on ebay that it was in really good shape,
still using it.
------
steventruong
Buy a used Mac. You'll be much happier. The hackintosh route sucks as you'll
run into lots of potential issues including lack of updates among other
things.
~~~
manuscreationis
Like I replied to another person, my hope was to get my sea-legs with a
vm/hack setup, then once I had some experience and a solid idea to execute on,
invest in a used mac.
But thanks for the advice
~~~
jonhendry
Maybe you could look for a Macbook with a busted LCD. It might be
significantly cheaper, but you could use it with an external monitor.
------
jtchang
I have experience developing that way. Vmware on Ubuntu. Mac OS X Lion. If you
want to know more e-mail me directly.
~~~
manuscreationis
Sent, thanks
------
dazzla
I started out with a hackintosh but learning OSX, Objective C, Cocoa Touch,
XCode, etc was more than enough without that added hassle.
I'd buy a Mac as many have suggested or just do it with Android instead. It's
easier to iterate on Android anyway and you can port to iOS afterwards.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Have Millennials Made Quitting More Common? - hgennaro
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-12/have-millennials-made-quitting-more-common
======
dozzie
> More people are leaving their jobs, and disloyal young people may have
> something to do with that.
And how did we get those disloyal employees? Maybe it's a product of companies
not providing with a meaningful career development, not investing in their
employees, and hiring/firing people at company's discretion? Loyalty is a two
way bond.
~~~
hwstar
Since the Great Recession, employers have gotten away with this because they
could. That may be about to change...
~~~
dozzie
Lack of loyalty can't be attributed to loose laws during the recession,
because it's much older than 2007+. For how long is it uncommon that somebody
stays for dozen years in the same company?
~~~
hwstar
In some states that may be true. If anything labor law has been becoming more
employee friendly in California.
I must really be an outlier then. I was with the same company for 25+ years
before being laid off. Because the job market for electronics engineers is so
bad where I live, I've chosen to semi-retire and look around to see what I
might do bring in income which doesn't involve a W2 job.
~~~
dozzie
> In some states that may be true.
If by "some states" you mean "some (most?) parts of the Western world".
------
hwstar
Maybe people are just frustrated with what corporate America has to offer with
regards to employment opportunities. At some point the burdens of being an
employee in a corporate environment exceed the point where it is advantageous
to run your own business or be a freelancer.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Revisiting GNU Awk YouTube Video Downloader - ajbatac
http://www.catonmat.net/blog/revisiting-gnu-awk-youtube-video-downloader/
======
qwph
It's not fair of me to single out this particular site, but why do people
insist on presenting source code in tiny little windows with both vertical
_and_ horizontal scrollbars?
It makes it really hard to browse the code without copying it and pasting it
somewhere else...
~~~
thwarted
Well, you have to fit in both the 800px wide (less than that because of a
sidebar that contains ads and other doohickeys) screen to accommodate the
lowest common resolution for people who have not upgraded to a monitor made
after 2000, and you want most of your content to appear above the fold (less
than that with a monstrous header image). Plus, who's looking at the code? The
prose is where the actual content is at, right?
The worst part of this is that these kinds of themes make it really hard to
change a few things quickly in the CSS (which I use firebug for occasionally)
to make it easier to read. I've started skipping things that have layouts that
make me work to read 'em. At least all the people who are not techy using low
resolutions can read your tech blog post.
------
joseakle
cool, i did something similar on appengine for searching youtube videos of
movie trailers, but i parse the rss for the first video.
------
JeremyChase
awk is a fantastic utility for processing 'stuff' in unix.
Yeah, I'm just plugging awk. :)
awk '{print "jer"}'
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How we threat model - arkadiyt
https://github.blog/2020-09-02-how-we-threat-model/
======
baby
Thanks for the article! Some comments:
\- this methodology lacks what I think is a good threat model: a list of
attacks your system wants to defend against, attacks that are not in scope,
and the attacker model (attacker has access to the network at all time, can
tamper with traffic, etc.)
\- likelihood of each attack vector helps prioritization of work
\- STRIDE sucks in my opinion, but it’s a good start for people who have no
clue about threat modeling. Are there any other models like that to follow?
\- frequency: this overlooks how hard it is to get devs to go through that
work, taking into accounts that people are always busy. How do you streamline
this process and how do you argue for the value of repeating this exercise
frequently?
\- different types of threat models: what about deployment? What about
updates? What about ci/cd? All of these have threat models as well.
\- different layers of threat models: I like the idea of a global threat model
managed by the security team with sub threat models managed by teams owning
different components, as these can help guide design decisions For new
features and refactors
~~~
Veserv
You are being far too kind. The things you mention are the essence of a threat
model. The fact that the article mentions none of those things and instead
proposes something that can not, by any reasonable definition, be considered
threat modeling and the fact that they think what they propose is threat
modeling demonstrates gross systemic incompetence in their security
organization.
In no universe can this: "A threat model is a collaborative security exercise
where we evaluate and validate the design and task planning for a new or
existing service." be considered the definition of a threat model. It mentions
nothing of "threats" or modeling them and at no point in the article do they
describe actual threat modeling, so this is not a disconnect between
definition and action. They also mention: "Then, holistically evaluate the
entire surface area and develop the most likely points of compromise. This is
the key deliverable." which again completely misses the point of threat
modeling as that is identifying where they are weak, not where they will be
attacked (though they are likely to be related). This is conflating "know your
self" and "know your enemy" which is ridiculous. What they appear to actually
be describing in the article is the most rudimentary security process of
actually evaluating their own systems which is a prerequisite for a functional
security process since you can not shore up weaknesses without understanding
where they are. So, my best possible interpretation is that their security
organization seems to think "threat modeling" is a catch-all term for any
security process which is a baffling degree of institutional incompetence.
------
mangamadaiyan
Off-topic: I found it hard to parse "How we threat model"; the sentence is
grammatically incorrect. It should either be "How we model threats" or "How we
threat-model".
"Model" by itself can be used in the verb sense, but I'm having a hard time
accepting the model in "threat model" as a (qualified?) verb.
------
segfaultbuserr
The automatic anti-clickbait algorithm screwed the title again. Please re-add
the word "How".
------
motohagiography
The way I threat model is I use a tool I developed and a conversation with PMs
and devs/architects to determine each thing we're protecting, the current
state of what we plan to use to protect it, who we're actually protecting it
from, and the tech stack it depends on.
It creates a bunch of visualizations that everyone up and down the chain can
understand quickly, which update dynamically as we add new security features,
and which reflect complete tracability of the technical reality from an
engineering perspective, along with a gap analysis that product, security,
engineering, compliance, and security can reason about. The side effect is a
visual security architecture, and an objective attack surface for your post-
controls like VAs and pen-tests.
Then the tool automatically generates epics and stories that import into Jira
so we can build security controls as features and manage them in iteration
planning and standups.
Just this week I put a 50 page architecture doc through it in about an hour
and provided an agency director with a concrete security posture that
demonstrated how it had lots of controls for prevention, but none to detect or
respond to the threats we actually cared about, and that this should be the
substance of their conversation with the vendor.
If you want to know why you should threat model, I'm also using it to support
the sales org at a new security product company by modelling the security of
target customers' products and showing how their authN product fills gaps it
illustrates in the customer's products, and I use it personally for fast
modelling attack surfaces on gigs. One client called it the "Deloitte killer,"
because it does in a couple hours what big-5 consultancies take weeks and $50k
to do. That's generous, as people hire those companies for compliance and not
to build better products. My tool is not a product because it alienates other
security and compliance people, and product/project people mostly care about
having them onside. My personality probably doesn't help either. :)
IMO, STRIDE is bike shedding. Real threats are counter-cases to your product's
business model.
~~~
baby
Still interested in the tool
~~~
motohagiography
Thanks! This is a bit ugly and it's been cleaned up since, but for public
consumption, it's described here:
[https://www.qtra.io/simpletm](https://www.qtra.io/simpletm) .
------
rbolla
tl:dr; Microsoft's Thread Modeling tool OWASP's Threat Dragon.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ocaml / functional programming abuses - stablemap
https://gist.github.com/vjeux/cc2c4f83a6b60d69b79057b6ef651b56
======
leovonl
Nothing new on this, experienced programmers know the performance implications
of data structures (ie, lists are generally bad regardless of the
language/paradigm) and most complains about language itself can be read as
"I'm not used to this way of writing code". Which is fine, but it is an
opinion not exactly a fact or a piece of knowledge.
OCaml itself is not a new language and they are probably not going to break
compatibility to fix minor syntactic issues now - even the new ppx system was
introduced in a way to not interfere with the current syntax. TBH I find it a
very minor annoyance compared to all other more things the language has to
offer.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Browse “Who's Hiring” remote jobs by eligible country/timezone - pricj004
https://www.teamremote.io
======
pricj004
Hi folks!
A lot of the REMOTE posts in “Who’s Hiring” have specific location
requirements (e.g. ‘US only’, ‘within +- 2hrs of GMT’ etc).
This is a quick tool for browsing/filtering those.
Feedback appreciated!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
2000x performance win - tilt
http://dtrace.org/blogs/brendan/2011/12/08/2000x-performance-win/
======
luriel
This is not really a 2000x performance "win", this is GNU grep(1) being so bad
at dealing with UTF-8 to the point of being basically unusable.
The PoSix locale system is a nightmare, but the implementation in GNU
coreutils is even worse, when it is not insanely slow it is plain broken.
I wasted days tracking down a bug when we moved a script from FreeBSD to a
linux sytem that had an UTF-8 locale, even for plain ASCII input GNU awk could
match lines erratically if the locale was not set back to C! I'm sure this bug
has been fixed by now, but is by far not the only time I have found serious
flaws with UTF-8 support in GNU tools, it seems this days the only way to be
safe is to set the locale to C at the top of all your scripts, which is quite
sad.
This is also required because due to POSIX locale insanity the actual behavior
of tools as basic as ls(1), and more fundamentally regexps matching changes
based on the locale, making scripts that don't set their locale at the top
unreliable and nonportable.
Or using a toolkit with decent UTF-8 support, like the from Plan 9 that one
can use on *nix systems via Plan 9 from User Space ( <http://plan9.us> ) or
9base ( <http://tools.suckless.org/9base> ), if you use those also your
scripts will be much more portable, as there are all kinds of
incompatibilities among for example awk implementations.
~~~
dododo
here's another "fun" grep locale oddity:
$ echo HI | LANG=en_US.utf8 grep '^[a-z]'
HI
$ echo HI | LANG=C grep '^[a-z]'
$
apparently en_{GB,US}.utf8 orders a-z like aAbBcC..zZ.
$ echo ZI | LANG=en_US.utf8 grep '^[a-z]'
$
~~~
iso8859-1
This is what I get:
$ echo HI | LANG=C grep '^[a-z]'
$ echo HI | LANG=en_US.utf8 grep '^[a-z]'
$
How come?
~~~
p9idf
I was able to reproduce the bug. It could be a version thing.
; grep --version
GNU grep 2.6.3
; echo A | LANG=en_US.utf8 grep '[a-z]'
A
~~~
Ives
No, I have the same version but not a similar result. I also have the
en_US.utf8 locale installed.
------
Nitramp
Does anyone understand what the bug in grep was?
UTF-8 regular expression matching shouldn't be different from ASCII at all, as
far as I can tell. In UTF-8, every byte by itself can be identified as a start
byte or trail byte, so if you want to match a regular expression, you don't
even have to care about UTF-8 in any way. Any legal character in the regexp
you want to look for can only match at a legal character start in the
haystack.
~~~
4ad
GNU grep uselessly converts UTF-8 to some multibyte char internal
representation.
You are completely right, matching regular expressions with UTF-8 text is the
same as with ASCII text, one of the reasons why UTF-8 is so good.
~~~
omgtehlion
You both are wrong. If you take arbitrary byte in ascii stream you can be sure
that this is a whole char, but if you take arbitrary byte in utf-8 stream you
can get a start of a char / end of char / or whole char.
~~~
4ad
Obviously choosing an arbitrary offset in the byte stream might not align on
rune boundary, but UTF-8 is great because you can determine that. You can
determine the start/end boundaries in any subset of the byte stream, as
opposed to most other encodings.
The issue is completely unrelated to the fact that matching regexps in UTF-8
text is the same as matching regexp in ASCII text. The regular expression tool
doesn't even need to care that the text is UTF-8. It's just byte comparisons,
the tool doesn't even need to be aware of rune boundaries.
~~~
colomon
Don't some of the common cases of searching require the ability to quickly
skip forward N characters for high efficiency? That's simple pointer
arithmetic in the ASCII case, but requires reading each byte skipped in UTF-8,
right?
(I'm particularly thinking of Boyer-Moore --
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%E2%80%93Moore_string_sear...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%E2%80%93Moore_string_search_algorithm)
\-- but I'm sure there are other examples as well.)
------
tantalor
In case anybody else was wondering what LANG=C means,
> The 'C' locale is defined as the "default" locale
> for applications, meaning that their strings are
> displayed as written in the initial code (without
> passing through a translation lookup).
>
> There is nothing special about the C locale, except
> that it will always exist and applies no string
> replacements.
-Malcolm Tredinnick
[http://mailman.linuxchix.org/pipermail/techtalk/2002-Novembe...](http://mailman.linuxchix.org/pipermail/techtalk/2002-November/013691.html)
~~~
tantalor
> If the locale value is "C" or "POSIX", the POSIX locale is used
- The Single UNIX ® Specification, Version 2
<http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xbd/envvar.html>
------
bjoernbu
As far as I know, grep uses Boyer-Moore for string matching when possible.
Giving a variable char size encoding such as UTF8, plain Boyer-Moore isn't
possible, but it is the asymptotically faster algorithm known.
Hence even perfect versions of grep will slower by arbitrarily large factors,
depending on the input.
So while there may be problems, expecting no difference or no significant
difference between encodings is not correct either
~~~
dexen
_> Giving a variable char size encoding such as UTF8, plain Boyer-Moore isn't
possible (...)_
That you get UTF-8 input and produce UTF-8 output doesn't imply you are better
off using UTF-8 for processing. Translating UTF-8 to fixed-width UTF-32 and
back is of linear complexity and takes small, fixed amount of memory. The only
trade-off is when processing /very/ long lines -- up to four time more memory
would be used for buffer.
As mentioned in other posts, Unicode requires normalization of certain
character combinations into other characters, so you'll be processing all
input characters anyway. Just prefix an extra step to it, not even a separate
loop.
And so you can do Boyer-Moore with Unicode at very little extra cost :-)
Some text-intensive programs of Plan 9, including grep, use internally fixed-
widht format called `Rune' for unicode, exactly for reasons of performance.
UTF-8 input is translated into strings of Runes for processing and translated
back for output.
------
gravitronic
For getting dtrace-like traces under Linux I strongly suggest getting oprofile
(<http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/news/>) working on your target machine. I've
used it on a PPC embedded board and it worked wonderfully. Do not optimize
that which you have not measured.
------
mgedmin
Is this really a bug in grep, rather than a bug in Solaris's libc? I've never
seen grep so slow, and I've been using UTF-8 locales for _years_.
I'm not denying that grep was buggy (there's a link to grep's bug tracker to a
bug that was closed more than a year ago), but I'm surprised at the magnitude
of the slowdown.
~~~
pdw
The official GNU grep used to be absurdly slow at UTF-8. Linux distributors
very quickly noticed this and fixed it when they switched to UTF-8 by default.
But GNU grep maintenance was essentially dormant for years and these patches
were only integrated in 2010.
For an old, unpatched GNU grep a 2000x slowdown is quite believable.
------
lordlarm
It actually was 4000x times faster by using C's inbuilt counter ("-c") instead
of "wc -l".
Any risks with just updating to latest version of grep instead of using the
LANG=C hack?
------
iradik
Anyone able to verify the author's claim?
I only get a 2x improvement when switching LANG on Redhat linux on EC2:
% export LANG=C % time grep done nohup.out | wc -l 152929
real 0m0.343s user 0m0.233s sys 0m0.112s
% export LANG=en_US.UTF-8 % time grep done nohup.out | wc -l 152931
real 0m0.771s user 0m0.673s sys 0m0.100s
% grep --version GNU grep 2.6.3
Author is using grep 2.5.3, I am using 2.6.3, so not testing the same thing.
------
kennystone
I enjoyed seeing your debugging process and picked up a few tricks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Iceland becomes first country to legalise equal pay - dacm
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/iceland-country-legalise-equal-pay-180101150054329.html
======
avar
The article is light on details, so hopefully I can help out as an Icelandic
speaker. I'm only just familiarizing myself with this now.
It was already illegal to have unequal pay for the two sexes and other
protected classes in Iceland. What's being changed here is mostly that the
burden of proof is being shifted around.
Now organizations starting with 25 employees (and more requirements kick in at
250) need to have some sort of process for how they manage promotions, and
implement pay scales that they can demonstrate to the institute of equality
are conducive to the outcome of equal pay.
If they fail to do so they can start getting daily fines until they fix their
processes.
So this is essentially an attempt to fix corporate governance through
compliance before issues of equal pay arise, providing companies more rope to
hang themselves by making them produce an audit trail of potential
incompliance, and giving the government the power to fine companies for what
it sees as structural problems, without having enough proof to pursue specific
cases of unequal pay.
Edit: I misread the number of employee requirement. It's being phased in with
companies with 250+ employees needing to be compliant by December 31, 2018,
then each year in steps of 150-249, 90-149, until companies with 25-89
employees need to be compliant on December 31, 2021[3]
1\.
[http://www.althingi.is/altext/146/s/1054.html](http://www.althingi.is/altext/146/s/1054.html)
2\. [http://www.stadlar.is/thjonusta/nyjustu-frettir/stadlamal-
fr...](http://www.stadlar.is/thjonusta/nyjustu-frettir/stadlamal-frettabref-
stadlarads/2017/06/jafnlaunastadallinn-ist-85-um-hvad-er-hann-og-til-
hvers.aspx)
3\.
[http://www.jafnretti.is/jafnretti/?D10cID=ReadNews3&ID=1404](http://www.jafnretti.is/jafnretti/?D10cID=ReadNews3&ID=1404)
~~~
jfaucett
Am I the only one who thinks "institute of equality" sounds a little too
Orwellian? The Minitrue newspeak scholar might proclaim: let there be no
differences in income or outcome let the two words be one, I give you: uncome.
In seriousness though, I think this might make more problems than it solves,
but we'll see, hopefully it does what it is intended to do. The main problem
as I see it, is that the vast majority of the pay gap is not due to evil
corporations hating women and discriminating against them, but to a myriad of
other factors, see this study by the European Commission:
[http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-
gap/c...](http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-
gap/causes/index_en.htm).
A lot of these regulations end up hurting women more than they help because
they don't take these other factors into account. For instance, I live in
Germany and a factor working against women in the workforce is all the
regulations that make it so you can't fire a woman if she becomes pregnant and
have to keep her position open for years while she takes mother's leave. There
are some compensating laws that allow men to take some of the same leave
options but still don't fully compensate for this disadvantage.
EDIT: Put this here to see what others think or are trying (in your companies,
startups, etc). Another factor is the way in which individuality and ownership
is rewarded through promotions etc. in company culture. Women (in the
distribution) tend to be much more cooperative and work better in
team/collaborative environments where its hard to determine who is responsible
for the outcome (I can't remember the study but I think there was a You are
not So Smart podcast on collective intelligence about this). Anyway, I think
changing the structure and culture inside companies to be more accommodating /
financially rewarding to collaboration and group success could be another more
effective way to help close the pay gap. At least on paper, women outperform
men by a good margin on collective intelligence tasks.
~~~
mafribe
It's more than a little Orwellian!
For example Pol Pot and his henchmen justified their mass murder by accusing
their victims as enemies of the "equalitarian state" [1].
It's interesting that this is being downvoted. Do the downvoters question the
historical veracity of the connection between totalitarianism (such as Pol
Pot's) and equality?
[1] Daniel Bultmann: Kambodscha unter den Roten Khmer
~~~
evanlivingston
I assume the downvoters take issue with your comparison between one of the
worst genocidal regimes in history to one of the most unassuming, high
functioning democracies by using only the similarity in a naming convention
that the two different states used.
------
swarnie_
Do two people doing the same job, with the same skills and the same experience
get paid differently because of their gender? Its something I've never seen in
my professional life in the UK.
I've seen reports where men earn more if you take the entire working
population in to account, but that seems more based on the jobs done rather
then the respective genders.
~~~
irpapakons
Yes, there is both an adjusted and unadjusted gender pay gap.
~~~
dmichulke
I always wonder - if there is such a huge gap, why don't folks just employ
women, since they're cheaper and do the same work?
Isn't that the question to be answered in order to really understand what's
going on?
Otherwise I bet I can always find, for any company, a subset of people that
are underpaid relative to the rest, be it related to age, gender, race, sexual
preferences, employment history, ZIP code, whatever.
~~~
falcolas
There isn't a huge gap, not for the same job/title combination (there are
cases where the gap does exist for the same job, but it's typically less than
10%). The gap widely most widely reported, the 70% figure, is primarily caused
because of the genders holding different jobs, where the average pay for
female-dominated jobs is less than the average pay for male-dominated jobs.
~~~
wrsh07
So... this is light on details into their analysis, but Laszlo Block [formerly
of Google - where I work fwiw], claimed "In 2015 we added 8,214 employees to
Google. And the women we hired, on average, received a 30 percent bigger
salary increase upon joining the company, compared to men."
If you accepted his claim that Google does pay genders equitably, then this
would indicate a large pay disparity outside of Google.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-
leadership/wp/2016/04...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-
leadership/wp/2016/04/29/how-the-whats-your-current-salary-question-hurts-the-
gender-pay-gap/)
~~~
dragonwriter
> If you accepted his claim that Google does pay genders equitably, then this
> would indicate a large pay disparity outside of Google.
Or it would indicate a successful outreach program at Google for women by
which they were successful at getting qualified women not currently working in
tech to apply; this doesn't necessarily imply a like-duties gender pay gap.
~~~
collyw
Could it indicate discrimination against men at Google?
------
pebers
On the face of it, the title is incorrect; lots of other countries have had
laws against gender discrimination for a long time (e.g.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_1970](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_1970)).
The article doesn't really give enough details to understand why this case is
apparently unique.
------
gruez
>makes Iceland the first country in the world to legalise equal pay between
men and women.
It wasn't legal before?
~~~
Amorymeltzer
>A new law making it illegal to pay men more than women has taken effect in
Iceland.
>makes Iceland the first country in the world to legalise equal pay between
men and women.
Weird writing here by ALJ. The differences between illegal, decriminalized,
legal, and mandated are important. I think we in the US have grown to learn
the differences a little better lately due to marijuana. It's illegal
Federally, some states have decriminalized it, and some states have completely
legalized it; no states have yet to mandate marijuana use.
~~~
didgeoridoo
I think they’re trying to use “legalise” to mean “put legal structures
around”. Probably they meant “legislate”?
~~~
chillingeffect
I interpret this to mean men have no legal recourse when their employer lowers
their salary to match women's.
This will obviously disincentivize men from working as hard and lower
productivity.
------
cup-of-tea
So if a man tries to negotiate a higher salary he'll be told no because it's
illegal? What if a woman tries?
In most workplaces at the higher levels everyone is essentially doing their
own specific version of a particular job. Two people might share the same
title and job description but what they actually _do_ can be very different
and some people are simply more valuable than others. This kind of legislation
seems to be enforcing a drone mentality, i.e. everyone is equal and does
exactly what they are told, no more, no less.
~~~
madsbuch
I guess the difference is in the assumption: Iceland assume a gender wage gab
but no gender competencies gab. This assumption is also advantageous for men:
Iceland has an equal system for men wrt. paternaty/maternaty leave.
Furthermore we can also expect that nursing and kindergarten teaching
professions will be easier for men to get into than is the case now. Lastly,
there is also an ongoing debate about stay-at-home fathers (A consequence is
that the Nordics are doing something about a _very_ deep assumption that women
are better emotional providers than men).
In the Nordics (I am Danish) we increasingly talk about _gender_ equality as
on objective thing, where both men and women have their problems. Though on
the international scene gender equality means women's rights. Therefore this
angling of the article.
~~~
collyw
Still waiting for the equality measures to hit those who don't have kids for
whatever reason.
We always seem to end up doing extra to compensate for maternity/paternity
leave.
~~~
madsbuch
That is a very interesting conversation, although OT. But it is interesting to
think about whether there should be an alternative for those not wanting kids
such as getting the leave anyways to use on whatever.
On the other hand there might be reason that we should give incentive to give
birth to more kids.
~~~
collyw
More than enough people in the world, I see no reason to encourage more.
------
osrec
Equal pay is an interesting topic, but it's a tough one. For example, in
tennis, the prize money at grand slams is equal for both genders, yet the men
play more tennis (and arguably at a higher level). The rationale often cited
is that both genders are being pushed to their limit in their respective
groups. By that logic, should anyone less naturally capable at a particular
job (but giving it their all) be paid the same as someone more talented who is
also giving it their all? It would be interesting to hear people's views on
this!
~~~
bkohlmann
The reason they are paid the same in tennis is that they bring in
approximately the same revenue via sponsorship, ticket sales, etc. Women's
tennis is basically as popular as men's at this point.
However, this is not the case in professional basketball, soccer or even golf.
In all three cases, the men's leagues far outperform the women's in terms of
getting revenue from the marketplace...and the commensurate salaries / prize
purses reflect this. The US Womens Soccer team made a big deal about this
recently, but when you look at the income produced by the men in professional
leagues vs. women's leagues, there are stark differences.
~~~
osrec
I don't think that's true in the slightest. Men's tennis is much, much more
popular across the board! That's actually why guys like Novak Djokovic were
complaining!
~~~
bkohlmann
It looks like in 2005 and 2008, revenue was similar. It's diverged since then.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/606439/tennis-atp-and-
wt...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/606439/tennis-atp-and-wta-tour-
revenue/)
2007 was also the first year that Wimbledon (the last holdout of the four
majors) paid the same to men and women victors.
It seems psychologically hard to regress from that benchmark, even if in
recent years overall revenue has once again diverged.
And in non-majors, the pay disparity has returned, reflecting the differences
in revenues:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/sports/tennis/equal-
pay-g...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/sports/tennis/equal-pay-gender-
gap-grand-slam-majors-wta-atp.html)
------
DyslexicAtheist
I've been involved in a couple tech-oriented recruiting companies. There are 2
related problems making this more nuanced than what is visible at first sight
IMO.
1) In many countries it's normal for companies to keep the salaries secret so
employee A has no idea what employee B gets. Even Employee A is an utter
slacker but good with selling themselves, A will generally go further. (There
is a strong relation to success/leadership positions & Dunning-Kruger). Being
honest about equal pay would mean companies have to be transparent about their
pay-grades (kudos to those who do and not threaten to prosecute employees when
they discuss this internally).
2) Women are less likely to either suffer from Dunning-Kruger. Nor are they as
easily prepared to _" fake it, until they make it"_ (as their male
counterparts). I've seen this both as a lifelong engineer and in my countless
interviews with applicants. Women tend to be more honest upfront about what
they know. There are probably articles/blogs that confirm this though.
This is something companies need to incorporate into their applicant
screening. Considering how idiotic most interviews are still run (whiteboard
coding, creation of artificial stress in the interview, etc ...) I have little
hope. If we want to make it fair we need to rethink hiring. (which is easy to
say when the whole world is pushing for more automation within HR[1][2], with
_[2]_ being especially questionable since an interview isn't just for
companies getting know you but also for you to assess your prospective future
employer. Not much of a good first impression at all if the interviewer is
literally a f __*ing bot, is it?
We need to discuss not just gender-equality but ageism and quite a number of
other problems which I believe are rooted in transparency of HR processes &
on-boarding.
[1] [https://blog.valbonne-consulting.com/2015/06/13/using-big-
da...](https://blog.valbonne-consulting.com/2015/06/13/using-big-data-to-
analyse-your-personality-and-character/) [2] [https://ideal.com/ai-
recruiting/](https://ideal.com/ai-recruiting/)
------
callesgg
I am mostly interested how this will be implemented.
How do you isolate differences that may arise due to different individuals
being of different value to the company for one reason or the other.
~~~
taneq
Indeed. If you equalise pay between men and women, then either (a) you have to
equalise pay among all employees for the same work, or (b) you throw merit-
based salaries out the window and mandating paying more to one gender than the
other for the same work.
------
krona
I don't know what the statistics for Iceland are, but at least in the UK such
regulations would, on average, help men in their 20's more than women.
------
indubitable
A genuine and pure gender pay gap doesn't makes much of any economic sense.
Imagine a company is able to hire women for x% less than men. And we assume
these women are absolutely identically, if not superiorly, skilled. What would
happen? Unless you think corporations are big into missing obvious
opportunities to reduce labor costs, you'd suddenly have companies approaching
near 100% women. Companies are already actively working to marginalize and cut
the costs on labor as much as possible.
I think identity politics is getting somewhat out of control. Imagine you look
at the pay balance between short and tall individuals, gender adjusted. It
would be substantially in favor of the taller. Does this mean it's inherently
discriminatory and that we need to start getting government to pass 'height
gap' laws?
Perhaps the pretentiousness of social science is more at fault. The adjusted
wage gap is supposed to compensate for every single factor in an employee's
value and weight it perfectly fairly. That, I think, is beyond absurd. Even at
the most fundamental level in that an individual's job title is rarely
indicative of what they actually do. 'Senior Programmer A' and 'Senior
Programmer B' are often going to be taking on vastly different
responsibilities, even at the same company. Operations are not finely greased
machines with each cog operating in its exact designated way. Individual
differences are what result in one person starting at a low level and spending
the rest of their life there, and another starting at a low level (with
similar qualifications) and working at top level operations 8 years later. And
at some snapshot in time you'd see our second person seemingly receiving
disproportionate compensation. Well that's because they were doing a
disproportionately better job.
This is not to say that there's no inefficiency in companies such that
meritorious workers get left behind, or similarly that less capable workers
get promoted. But, excepting cronyism, these tend to be inadvertent and
undesirable inefficiencies. Horrible ideas like Ballmer's stack ranking are
all just desperate efforts to try to resolve this inefficiency. It costs money
and it hurts product - nobody wants it. If a company thought that filling
every single position they have with transgender transracial dwarves would
increase their longterm bottom line by even just a few percent compared to the
status quo, our transgendered transracial dwarves would suddenly be the
hottest hires on the market.
------
guy98238710
I would echo what one Nordic poster wrote in a subcomment: Nordics see
equality as both female and male thing. I would venture to add that <10%
adjusted wage difference is negligible when girls in some countries (including
mine) have 50% higher participation in university-level education and women
have ~1000% higher success rate in child custody cases. Interestingly, the
latter two stats are mostly or fully under government control in most
countries, i.e. they are instituted.
The article also quotes Global Gender Gap Report, which lists countries with
education dominated by female students as having 1.0 (perfect) score in
education attainment. In other words, girls missing out on school is bad while
boys missing out on school is okay.
------
joeblow9999
This is such a terrible, terrible plan.
A lawyer's dream come true.
An employer has two choices: don't hire any women, or create a flat uniform
compensation structure that can't possibly attract star performers. This only
works for janitorial, fast food, and the like. This does NOT work for high
skilled high value knowledge workers like lawyers, programmers, etc.
If you DO hire women, prepare to get sued. If you DON'T hire women, prepare to
get sued.
<smdh>
------
a_imho
The WEF report.
[https://www.weforum.org/reports/the-global-gender-gap-
report...](https://www.weforum.org/reports/the-global-gender-gap-report-2017)
[http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GGGR_2017.pdf](http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GGGR_2017.pdf)
------
ramblerman
Surely you have men with the same title now, earning different amounts because
they have different skill sets / value to the company.
Will this just get solved by creating more titles. Each salary bracket needs
its own title..
~~~
MollyR
That's exactly how I think it will be solved, or more people shift to become
contractors.
If the high performers aren't compensated properly, the ones that a company
needs the most, they will leave because they have options.
------
JMCQ87
Great, more compliance.
------
tabeth
I don't see how anyone could complain about this. Companies will simply create
more titles and then better illustrate the skills needed to be promoted.
------
joeblow9999
how do sales bonuses work under this system?
------
wrsh07
Should the title be "legislate," not "legalise"? I know it's copied from the
source, but it still seems a bit confusing / misleading.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fertility Is Kaput, but Life Goes On - forloop
http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2015/03/30/fertility-is-kaput-but-life-goes-on/
======
cauterized
It's also worth noting that reproduction is more taxing and more dangerous for
human women than for the females of essentially any other mammal (perhaps even
any other vertebrate?) species. Additionally, we have a longer period of
immaturity than virtually any other animal species.
A woman who ceases to bear children [let's say at age 45] while she still has
15 years of vigorous healthy life ahead of her is more likely to be alive and
healthy to raise her last infant to adulthood because a) she's less likely to
die in childbirth and b) she won't be weakened and spend resources on further
pregnancies -- which helps ensure that the immense investment she's made in
the earlier children will pay off.
Now image her counterpart who continues to be fertile after age 45 but will
keel over the minute she hits 60. What if her next pregnancy after 45 kills
her and leaves all her youngest children (say, ages 1-10) without a mother?
That hurts their chances of survival and of the fitness and health that would
make them desirable reproductive partners. And if she does survive all her
following pregnancies? She's leaving behind several young, motherless children
(perhaps even a newborn) who also don't have a great chance in the world.
What, their siblings will help raise them? But that decreases the resources
available to the elder siblings' children -- the next generation -- and
jeopardizes their fitness too.
Human reproduction is unusually resource intensive and errs on the side of
investing more in a few high quality offspring rather than having hundreds
(think tadpoles) of which only a few survive to maturity. Resources in terms
of all of the energy and nutrients the mother gives the fetus, and resources
in terms of years of teaching and socialization and investment in developing
the brain. You basically can't _have_ what we'd consider a functional adult
human without that huge investment of resources.
~~~
ArkyBeagle
The main span of human existence was principally tribal. If the mother died (
and just projecting back from 19th century death in childbirth rates ... ) the
tribe raised the kid.
The tribe mainly raised the child anyway past a point.
------
TheEzEzz
I like the idea, but it's difficult for me to swallow the group selection
pill. If everyone else in my tribe has this population control gene but me
then I benefit greatly because I'll have many more children without the tribe
becoming overpopulated. Eventually my gene out competes the communal gene and
the entire tribe overpopulates and collapses. Why doesn't this happen more
often? What mechanism exists to prevent me from having this mutation? If I
have this mutation am I essentially a cancer on the tribe from which the tribe
cannot recover? This doesn't seem like the dynamics we observe in nature.
------
pingou
I don't know anything about the subject but still feel like it's a strange
explanation.
To me it seems like it would be a great advantage for the species if you could
reproduce past the normal reproduction age, if you made it this far it
probably means that you are perfectly adapted to your environment.
What about the depletion of resources? I imagine it must have been pretty rare
for an animal to be able to survive past the end of his reproductive years,
and unless you live in an island I had the impression resources shouldn't be
an insurmountable problem.
And if it is, then I guess a big part of your population die, but the other
recovers as there are less mouths to feed, and it's still an advantage to be
able to reproduce when you're old.
Again, I don't know anything about the subject, and like the author, I'm not
that convinced about the Grandma Hypothesis either.
------
tsotha
I think it's unlikely given the length of time people actually lived before
civilization. More likely there's just no evolutionary advantage in female
fertility after age 40 - she starts having children at 14 or 15 and has one a
year until she dies in childbirth. She never makes it to middle age.
Why accept there's no advantage in other age-related breakdown (like arthritis
or failing eyesight) and expect there's some grand evolutionary plan in
fertility loss?
------
bunkydoo
This is interesting. I have wondered for quite some time now if the millennial
generation will be subject to mass infertility in their 30's due to constant
cell phone radiation near the genitals. Obviously this won't be the end of the
world, but it may certainly cause a drop in planned pregnancy. Fertility drugs
are typically seen as rolling the dice, so maybe adoption will become the way
of the future - who knows?
~~~
irishcoffee
N = 1 sample size:
I'm almost 30, been carrying a cell phone since I was 16. The mother of my
child, same thing. At the time of conception (we were both mid-late 20's), we
were drinking like fish, smoking a half pack a day, eating horribly, for
whatever reason we were both in great shape (I exercise a lot, she was very
into dancing), using protection (not as well as we thought apparently) and
bam, shes pregnant.
There was a list on thebump.com or some such website, listing all the do's and
don'ts for getting pregnant, we pretty much broke every rule both ways,
weren't trying, and now we have a child.
I think the bigger problem with fertility will be overweight/obese people more
than anything else. I have friends who have been trying to months/years, no
luck. There seems to be a strong correlation between weight and fertility, at
least in my anecdotal experience.
~~~
joshuapants
> I think the bigger problem with fertility will be overweight/obese people
> more than anything else
Obesity is linked with low testosterone in men, and normal levels of
testosterone are necessary for good sperm production and fertility
(testosterone treatments have the opposite effect) so I think this is correct.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Think Like a Computer Scientist - rblion
http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
======
mahmud
This is the successor:
<http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html>
Downing has a bunch of good stuff; his text on concurrency is good too.
~~~
jmah
Thanks, you got me interested. There's a free PDF of "The Little Book of
Semaphores" by Allen Downey (and a video) here:
<http://greenteapress.com/semaphores/>
------
weel
It's a good introduction to Python for those who cannot yet program. I
recommend it to the economists who want to use my Python experimental
economics user interface library, and they usually like it.
------
rblion
Check this out too
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers>
------
rblion
Learn Python from the beginning.
It is well worth the effort. A designer or 'business guy' who can code has
much higher credibility.
~~~
SymbMeta
Agreed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: our Startup Weekend project - autoscale your Heroku dynos & workers - keo
Startup Weekend just started in our city and we thought we'll build a Heroku autoscaler that really works, and saves you not only from slowly building traffic but from the slashdot effect as well.<p>Those who tried out ddollar's gem (and all forks of it) or even Heroscale know that the problem's not so trivial to solve.<p>We hope people will get it, and pay a small monthly fee to save many days of inrastructure coding so they can focus on business logic instead.<p>URL is: http://scalefu.com/
======
rabble
I'm pretty sure Heroku doesn't want autoscale. I know it's been proposed many
times, i asked myself many times. They think it encourages people to write bad
code which isn't optimized.
~~~
burke
That's what they say. My money is on it encouraging people to leave more dynos
running than necessary, thus yielding more income for Heroku.
~~~
keo
That's true, but it also works in the other direction: you get slashdotted,
which kills your 2 running dynos. If you're away from your computer, your
traffic is long gone by the time you get back, and Heroku missed some revenue
because you didn't scale up.
Anyway, Heroku's business model isn't about making money on their oblivious
users, I would rather bet on their add-on store's which now has a very minimal
marginal cost to expand.
~~~
Dudu
Makes sense...
------
letitbe
Sounds logic. I like the idea, but I really wonder, if Heroku let it happen.
------
keo
clickable URL: <http://scalefu.com>
------
pukati
I like it!
------
xtro
I like it!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Are wireless and electromagnetic fields dangerous for health? - cosittgf
It seems this topic haven't been discussed here on HN, so I'm asking now.<p>- Are wireless and electromagnetic fields dangerous for health?<p>- Should I be worried about and take more care when using my laptop Wi-Fi too close to my body?<p>- Should I keep my cellphone away as much as possible?<p>- Are microwaved food dangerous?<p>- How close can I stay to a Wi-Fi source, let's say my router, or laptop, or cellphone?
======
mtmail
"no adverse health effects" for anything you'd usually use in your household.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electronic_devices_an...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electronic_devices_and_health)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_health)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Effects_on_health](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Effects_on_health)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why I Did Not Go to Jail (2014) - Tomte
http://www.bhorowitz.com/why_i_did_not_go_to_jail
======
lostcolony
'I obviously don’t know what happened at the other company, but I do know that
Michelle had no intention of breaking any laws and no idea that she’d broken
any laws'
This. This is terrifying. We're already in the position, as a society, that
everyone is guilty of something, and it's just whether someone feels like
prosecuting you or not as to whether you'll be penalized.
~~~
JabavuAdams
It's cause for concern, but I don't see how this is different from any other
society or historical period.
~~~
ArkyBeagle
It's somewhat of a departure from say, 50 years ago in the United States of
America. Options are a substitute for salary. Options were invented when
executive salaries were deemed too high.
Now a detail in compensation practice will get you three-plus months in jail.
~~~
PhantomGremlin
_Now a detail in compensation practice will get you three-plus months in jail_
How is it merely a "detail"?
If, on March 31 of a given year, you hand someone a stock option, you don't
get to pick "today" as the lowest price the stock has had in the interval of
March 1 thru March 31.
That's not a "detail". That's not just a small problem with the paperwork.
That's nothing but obvious fraud.
IMO. IANAL. But I've had stock options given to me. And the price was set for
that day, not for some date that was clearly a lie. And this all happened 20+
years ago, long before these sordid SV practices came to light.
Edit: One time my stock option grant was worse than "today". What happened is
we were a small company, the BOD met a few days earlier and approved grants,
my manager didn't give me my grant for a few days. So it was something like
this:
manager: "Here's your stock grant for $20 a share". me: "but the stock closed
today at $18 a share. So I'm already 10% underwater".
Such were the perils of working at a small company that wasn't trying to game
the system.
Not that there weren't ways to change employee compensation. In 2009 (and I'm
sure at various dates before that), many companies went to their stockholders
to ask them to approve re-pricing because employee options were way under
water.
I don't recall the converse ever happening. I'd like to hear of a company
going to its stockholders and asking for approval to tear up grants in the
other direction. Something like this: "we gave out employees stock options at
$10, but the stock is now $30. We want to take back those grants and give them
new ones at the current price". Nope, that doesn't happen.
I.e. there are already many ways companies can legally "cheat" without having
to commit obvious fraud.
~~~
ArkyBeagle
Back-dating options is pretty fishy. Not saying it isn't.
------
DanBC
> I told our employees that there was a difference between accounting fraud
> and accounting mistakes and I believed that Michelle made mistakes at her
> previous company, but did not commit fraud. [...]
> Michelle ultimately served 3½ months in jail for her part in the other
> company’s stock option practice—the same practice that we nearly implemented
> at Opsware. Since we had the same head of finance, we almost certainly would
> have been investigated. I obviously don’t know what happened at the other
> company, but I do know that Michelle had no intention of breaking any laws
> and no idea that she’d broken any laws. The whole thing was a case of the
> old saying: “When the paddy wagon pulls up to the house of ill repute, it
> doesn’t matter what you are doing. Everybody goes to jail.” Once the SEC
> decided that most technology company stock option procedures were not as
> desired, the jail sentences were handed out arbitrarily.
In England it would be unusual to go to jail unless there was intent to
deceive. People don't go to jail because they've made a mistake in their
accounts.
Is that true for the US? Or is this story an example of the massive over-
incarceration the US has?
~~~
pjc50
The UK certainly does have strict liability offences:
[http://www.peterjepson.com/law/A2-2%20Jonathan%20Wight.htm](http://www.peterjepson.com/law/A2-2%20Jonathan%20Wight.htm)
[http://www.drukker.co.uk/publications/reference/strict-
liabi...](http://www.drukker.co.uk/publications/reference/strict-liability/)
It's a little unusual to have strict liability result in jail time for
directors, but this is tax enforcement. See the ongoing Rangers case.
~~~
DanBC
So, I'm not trying to say they wouldn't be found guilty of an offence. I'm
saying that they wouldn't go to jail unless there was recklessness or intent
to deceive.
For a tax offence this would mean they'd have to repay the tax, with some
penalty. Non-payment would then result in a prison sentence.
And I'm only talking about taxes.
------
deedubaya
Wasn't it her job to at least know where the gray areas where? If you know
you're in a gray area, I'd expect you know that you _might_ be breaking the
law.
~~~
mdellabitta
The point of the story is that social proof isn't enough when it comes to
legal matters. The author contrasts his behavior with Michelle's to point out
what can happen when you use social proof rather than direct legal advice.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gears for Safari – Google releases a beta of Gears for Safari - nickb
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/08/gears-for-safari.html
======
hbien
Nice! I hope they get one out for Mobile Safari too - GMail and Google Reader
would be great on my ipod touch without wifi.
~~~
tlrobinson
I think Apple would have to cooperate with Google in order to get Gears
working with MobileSafari... user apps interaction with other apps is pretty
limited. But if they do, that would be awesome.
------
mattmaroon
First they should probably work on getting gears to work on any browser.
That's the least reliable product Google has ever shipped.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Carbon Fiber Flywheels for Energy Storage - blueatlas
http://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/
======
Quequau
Porsche made a really interesting hybrid track car that used a carbon fiber
flywheel based storage to harvest & power an electric motor mounted on the
front wheels.
------
efoto
According to wikipedia flywheels efficiency can be as high as 90%, which makes
them very attractive. Is it the price that holds mechanical energy storage
down?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Entrepreneurs value 'ideas' over wealth, study finds - getp
http://www.physorg.com/news130164408.html
======
workpost
Wouldn't a statement like this make more sense after the entrepreneur has sold
his / her first company? Once you've obtained a certain amount of money and
success, ideas become a lot more important because you've got the freedom to
choose which ideas you want to develop?
------
SwellJoe
But I thought we'd already established that ideas are worthless. Right?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will - cryptoz
http://www.wired.com/2014/07/hacking-google-maps/
======
csandreasen
Several years ago my spouse and I took a vacation abroad and booked a tour
with a local company. The guide was really shocked when I told him that I went
with their company because they had negative reviews. All of the touring
companies had fairly amateur web sites, but with the exception of this
company, all of the Yelp reviews were glowing, 5-star, nothing-went-wrong-
with-this-trip reviews. His company had fairly good reviews, with one or two
one-star reviews from angry customers that cancelled at the last minute and
didn't get their deposit back.
I expect a few bad reviews - nobody runs their business in such a manner that
every customer is satisfied 100% of the time. If I see nothing but outstanding
reviews, I'm going to assume they're all fake.
~~~
steven777400
Especially key is also what the bad reviews are for. Like in your case, you
identify the bad reviews are unreasonable expectations. Bad reviews with
claimed reasonable cause may be worth a little more pause.
Also important is number of reviews. I'd rather have a solid 4/5 product with
100 reviews than a straight 5 star product reviewed only 3 times.
~~~
r00fus
Well, if there is a bad review that has a response from the company, that
reflects well in my opinion, unless there are a large number of them.
Not sure if it's possible for vendors on Yelp to reply to their customers in
the forum, but I see this all the time on Amazon.
------
chdir
If you are running a popular place, whether you like it or not, you'll end up
on Google controlled listings. Unfortunately, there's little help for a non-
tech savvy business owner to fix problems with listings or fake reviews or
even removal of genuine reviews. This is an area where they need to be held
accountable. If you are wielding so much power, you need to handle it
responsibly and error in favor of business owners rather than community. Most
web companies prefer the approach of 'act now, apologize later' or maybe never
to garner users.
I've had so many web services (including Facebook) create accounts using my
email address without my approval (maybe because the other person used phone
verification). Now if I want to claim back my email address on that web
service, they put the burden on me to provide a photo ID. Using my email
address is partially impersonating me because my contacts might have uploaded
their address book and FB allows that willy nilly.
~~~
tedunangst
If it's your email, can't you just send a password reset?
~~~
chdir
With Facebook, no. My guess is that if you've verified with a phone number,
they make it difficult to reset by an unverified email (they favor the fake
user and assume that the email was entered incorrectly). Moreover, I don't
want to take over someone's account if they've been ignorant about entering
the email incorrectly. They still own the data. However I do report that I
didn't create this account. Services like FB blacklist the email address in
that case. As a result, I can't use that email in future without giving a
photo ID (never gonna happen).
------
frankydp
If you have ever used mapmaker, and attempted to update/modify POI and roads,
then you will be aware of the strange and unvalidated process of accepting and
denying changes to Gmaps.
There are more than a couple bad actors that are Approved Google map
moderators. I am not sure if their collective actions for denying and
modifying changes are a net good or net positive. It has always seemed strange
that someone from Washington state can deny a detailed and documented road/POI
change in Florida.
I really enjoy editing/contributing to Gmaps, but the seemingly
random/poisonous moderation process in that ecosystem is a huge turn off.
Sorry if this is a tad off topic.
~~~
freyfogle
Out of curiosity, have you tried OpenStreetMap? You get the same enjoyment of
editing without the "random/poisonous moderation process", plus the data you
contribute is open, rather than private property.
~~~
Crito
Do you know what OpenStreetMap has done to avoid the toxic editing community?
Wikipedia also has a problem with a toxic community; are they doing something
different?
~~~
Vik1ng
Not so much what OpenStreetMap has done, but simply due to the nature of the
project one big difference is, that OSM maps what is on the ground. So there
isn't going to be a discussion if that river is relevant or not, if there is a
river you map it. Other things like opening hours here are usually also easy
to verify, IF you do so. So it will be more if it belongs into the database or
not, but even if it doesn't there is often no big harm if tags aren't misused.
And then there are Quality assurance tools:
[http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance](http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance)
Right now most of them are more geared toward detecting accidental errors, but
it is pretty safe to say that once OSM becomes more popular there will also be
tools optimized to detect vandalism.
I also feel like it's a lot easier to get in touch with the community, at
least here in Germany:
[http://www.openstreetmap.de/community.html](http://www.openstreetmap.de/community.html)
I actually still haven't found a simple German Wikipedia Forum where I could
just discuss a page, which is something that really helps new users.
------
nicolethenerd
In case any of you have a business w/ a physical location, yext.com sells a
service that lets you manage these details (business hours, location, phone #,
etc) across several different sites (Bing, Mapquest, Yahoo, etc + ~50 others),
rather than handling them all individually.
(Disclaimer: my partner works there - but I don't get a commission or anything
:-) Just seemed relevant to the discussion)
~~~
Gracana
Can yext do anything to protect you from attacks like those mentioned in the
linked article?
~~~
eightofdiamonds
They can lock down the listing so that only you can edit them with their
partner sites. But it wouldn't work in this case since they are not partnered
with Google. We just had a presentation from them at my work a few weeks ago.
~~~
mcguire
Officially "taking ownership" of a record with Google doesn't prevent
community edits?
------
drivingmenuts
This is an example of one of the major problems of crowd-sourcing: trust.
There is no way to verify that the integrity of the submitter, who could be
giving wrong information due to malice, incompetence, or as a prank. There's
entirely too much trust in crowdsourcing.
~~~
Cthulhu_
It works very well for Wikipedia though, but that's because Wikipedia has much
more people that care about the information and maintain it. Google Maps lacks
that community feeling of providing correct information, probably because it's
owned and operated by Google.
Maybe local business organizations can provide help in this, have a few people
dedicate some of their time to making sure all listings are correct.
Alternatively, counties / local governments could take this responsibility
upon them; after all, local governments dislike seeing local businesses go out
of business or get less customers because they can't be found on Google.
At the same time, Google could do better in verifying changes; cross-check
them with official address books and business registries and the like.
~~~
cratermoon
Except Wikipedia doesn't work "very well". It works OK for most subjects, but
there are some areas and points of view that are no-go areas because of the
prevailing values of the major editors, and even turf wars. Mentioned not to
long ago here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7700546](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7700546)
------
derekp7
Would this type of hack fall under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act? If so, it
seems like an easy case to prosecute (the person committing the act has a
financial profit motive, the public would like to see genuine bad actors get
punished, etc). Or does the CFAA not apply because this isn't a protected
resources?
~~~
scintill76
Maybe it could count as "knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a
protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by
means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of
value".[0]
But they only bring out that kind of prosecutorial initiative and creativity,
if you downloaded a bunch of academic articles after previously identifying
yourself as a bit of a troublemaker (Aaron Swartz). Who cares about some old
immigrant's restaurant? OK, enough cynicism for today..
[0]
[http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030)
------
boobsbr
One more reason why I don't trust POIs I find on Google Maps.
I always try to find the actual business' page to check for phones and opening
and closing hours.
~~~
bhartzer
You can't even rely on a business' website anymore, though. You have to
actually call them on the phone and talk to a real person there, at the
business. Too often even the business owner doesn't have time to update their
website or get the "web guy" (read: his brother in law's son) to update the
website in a timely manner.
~~~
twoodfin
If I were Google, Yelp, or Facebook, I'd give serious consideration to selling
local businesses pre-created, theme-able web sites on a subscription basis.
They already have essentially all the content such sites would need, and
better designers than most small businesses would have access to.
I regularly run into local places that use their Facebook page as their _de
facto_ virtual storefront, but that format could be much better customized for
individual business varieties' needs, even putting aside the limitations of
living in Facebook's garden.
~~~
mike_hearn
They already do: Facebook and Google both have a "pages" feature which is
designed for exactly that. Most businesses don't seem to want their
Facebook/Google page to be their official website though, perhaps they think
it looks unprofessional.
~~~
gnaritas
It is unprofessional.
~~~
owenmarshall
It's unprofessional for a restaurant or a mechanic or a pet groomer to have
their Facebook/Google page as their official web presence?
How can it be "unprofessional"? That's simply not their profession. Why should
we judge them on that?
What an odd comment.
~~~
gnaritas
It's unprofessional for any business to use a Facebook page as their website.
A business that wants to appear professional has their own domain and their
own presence on the web; Facebook pages are for marketing, not hosting your
website. A professional presence doesn't have another company's branding all
over it.
Your comment is far odder than mine.
------
will_brown
It would seem to me these types of _hacks_ are very risky in light of the
recent lawsuits involving bogus Yelp reviews.
Specifically, Yelp was forced by the courts to reveal the real identities
behind bogus reviews, and further individuals have been held personally liable
for defamation.
Though the Google Map _hacks_ may not fall under a cause of action for
defamation (thought it may), certainly I could see rather large judgments
under a theory of tortious interference with business contracts/business
relationships. These suits permit not just damages for economic loss, but also
punitive damages.
------
troymc
Aren't there large-scale services to whom a small business owner can pay an
annual subscription fee, where the service will monitor the accuracy of their
Google, Yelp, Open Street Map, Wikipedia, Yellowpages, etc. information?
The article mentions some person on a retainer who does this on a shop-by-shop
basis, but it seems to me that this is something that can be automated and
scaled.
~~~
mierle
GoDaddy's Get Found does this; [http://getfound.com](http://getfound.com).
Disclaimer: I work at GoDaddy on Get Found.
------
Semaphor
The yelp review paint a picture of 2010: Great food, great service 2011: Good
to great food, horrible service 2012: Horrible food, horrible service
I usually don't trust yelp, but the decline is way too visible here.
~~~
drzaiusapelord
What exactly is yelp telling you? I'm something of a foodie and am stunned at
how inaccurate the reviews are for most restaurants. Most of the reviews seem
to come from a minority "elite" users who are chronic whiners and come off as
terribly immature. Its just incredible what people ding establishments for.
"Fries came late, this place sucks! Zero stars!"
Some people think the issue with yelp and google reviews is trust. Its not.
Its entitlement and a lack of proper criteria. The types of people who
gravitate towards these reviews and become frequent reviewers are often people
with poor taste and a lack of understanding of what they are reviewing.
They're not crowd-sourced Robger Eberts. They're your cranky local paper's
film critic who thinks 'naughty language' is the most unforgivable sin.
If anything, services like yelp have made me appreciate the art of criticism
and a lot of my dining decisions are now done via professional critics with
good reputations instead of the usual gang of misanthropes and weirdos who
dominate yelp.
~~~
electrum
Do you have any examples of awesome restaurants that have poor ratings on
Yelp? Assuming a sufficient number of reviews, Yelp ratings are at least
"directionally accurate". In my experience, a place with four stars is decent
and two stars is poor.
Many Asian restaurants in the Bay Area that I like are 3 or 3.5 stars, though
many others with that rating are mediocre. But on the low or high end, it
seems very accurate.
~~~
snowwrestler
Yelp seems pretty useless for mid-range or focused restaurants. Think of a
Mexican place that is inexpensive, but has great food that comes out in
plastic baskets. Their Yelp page will be full of complaints about the plastic
baskets.
There's a great ice cream place near me that gets complaints about their
customer service. You're buying an ice cream cone! It takes like 3 sentences;
how much service do you need? No joke, there are 2-star reviews like "Stopped
by after dinner; the line was out the door and the owner seemed tired. The ice
cream was delicious though."
------
jokoon
I always wondered about this, but now it's obvious: google doesn't make sure
those business info are accurate, it might have a huge cost to verify those
info, for example asking for some paperwork to check.
openstreetmap, on the other hand, seems much more trustful on this, since it's
moderated a little like wikipedia is.
I guess if openstreetmap was more popular, you might start to see similar
problems described in that article.
I'm sure even governments would not want to give the data of businesses
opening/closing for free.
~~~
dclowd9901
As a business owner, it's your job to make sure those listings are accurate,
just as it would be you would want to make sure the yellow pages had your
right phone number. There's no excuse for technological illiteracy or
ignorance, and if you don't want to bother to be in charge of your online
presence, you had better hire someone for the job.
~~~
jokoon
> There's no excuse for technological illiteracy or ignorance
I know the internet is much more popular since the last 10 years, but I don't
think everyone is really up to it. There are still big opportunities to scam
people who don't have the minimum of tech savyness: viruses, etc.
The internet is still a jungle with not enough laws.
~~~
MadManE
Why are laws the answer? If something is in a legal/moral gray area now, then
how many people will stop doing it when it becomes a true illegality?
Why not just have better defenses against things like this in the first place,
that work whether the activity is deemed "wrong" or not?
~~~
jokoon
There are many areas of the law which have been untouched for decades, and
only starts now to create new cases because of how the internet works.
Couchsurfing for example. Also scamming has never been so easy with the
internet.
I'm not saying you really need laws, but regulations might improve the
situation. There's nothing really illegal there, but it would be nice to see
google being liable for its data if it reach a certain size of audience. In
this case it's false advertising of defamation (unintentional).
Google map is a product, even if it hides behind a free thing "use with
caution". Most people can get along with it, but if it starts to have a big
impact on society, people will indeed become wary and learn, but not everyone
will do.
I guess you can say "let the nature do its work", but that's not always how
government see things, and that's not why the government exists. Strong
government can do big improvements, I think. It depends, that's a balance to
find.
------
hyperliner
To what extent is a weapon or a tool at fault, instead of the shooter or user?
This reminds me of Google bombing (for example, the attack on Rick Santorum, a
Senator whose ideas we can all disagree with).
It seems to me that there is a responsibility here for Google. Google has
become in effect the only way for small businesses to get or not get exposure,
and the way Google automates the process without authorization causes these
fringe problems. Fringe for Google, lethal for the business owner.
I think it is in Google's best interest to improve the process through which
they deal with the problems, and maybe even help prosecute those who created
them. Unfortunately, I also think they see these as collateral damage in a
battle to create the most automated system that works 99.99999% of the time.
On the other hand, it is a shame this biz owner had no computer expertise nor
knew to take care of his online reputation and information. Just like people
and Linkedin or github, businesses need to take responsibility. As in any
transitions, some people will be left behind, and it seems there is not a lot
we can do to avoid that.
~~~
VikingCoder
The business owner needs to care what their online presence (including their
Google Places) looks like.
There is nothing Google or anyone else can do, if the business doesn't care.
When the business does care, there are lots of options to clean up their
online presence.
~~~
benihana
Did you read the article? This isn't a case of the owner not caring; he didn't
know that google maps was incorrectly reporting his hours. It took a phone
call from a customer. _And that 's the problem_ \- why would he ever think
that people weren't coming to his restaurant because a map service messed up
his hours? As is clear from this article, that was very low on his checklist
of things that might be killing my business.
~~~
pmontra
Yes, and more than that: he didn't know what Google Map is. He is 74 and can
be excused for that. Fast forward ourselves into our 70+: how many new things
we won't know or care about then?
~~~
wutbrodo
I think everyone here is sympathetic to the idea that a 74 year-old shouldn't
have to keep up with every new technology, but you seem to be forgetting the
fact that he's running a business. Not knowing what Maps is is fine for a
random consumer, but excusing a restaurant owner for not knowing about online
map services is basically saying that he's no longer competent to run the
restaurant.
~~~
VikingCoder
...or knowing that he doesn't know about "that online stuff," and hiring
someone who does know about it to help him manage it. It's a cost of business.
~~~
owenmarshall
"The known, the unknown, and the underknown" \- TMBG
"as we know, there are known knowns[...] there are known unknowns[...] But
there are also unknown unknowns" \- Donald Rumsfeld
It's easy for business-minded techies to understand the impact of "that online
stuff". It's very likely that a septuagenarian restauranteur simply doesn't
fathom its potential impact.
~~~
VikingCoder
Agreed, and unfortunately for him, his competition WILL understand it. It's
survival of the fittest. The fit septuagenarians are the ones who listen to
their grand-kids who tell them they have to get "online."
------
southflorida
if google is going to take it upon themselves to list a business they should
be held accountable and the information should be accurate. google listed the
business without his consent and it was incorrect information. i hope he
wins... google listing a business that is closed on weekends could have been
detrimental in this case. the business owner doesnt need to change because
technology has evolved beyond his understanding, google should have never
listed the business to begin with. google = giant scraper site of
misinformation.
~~~
pavel_lishin
> the business owner doesnt need to change because technology has evolved
> beyond his understanding
I agree with the general sentiment of your comment, but I disagree with that
line in particular.
If you disagree, please sent your reply via the Pony Express to the Harlem
Public House; I shall check with the barman therein to see if your letter
arrives every other Sunday.
~~~
mcguire
Note: IIRC, the pony express was a transport mechanism for the US mail
service, which has the same API today. And if you do send a letter to someone
C/O the Harlem Public House, said establishment still exists and is willing to
hold mail, and you do check it periodically, you will very likely get the
letter.
------
sirdogealot
They were in business for 40 years... and Google maps just recently started
incorrectly listing their hours.
I highly doubt that the google maps error caused or even contributed to the
downfall of their apparently well established business.
------
hnriot
The world is a better place without a restaurant serving bear meat.
~~~
pests
If you read the article you would see it no longer serves bear meat.
~~~
trhway
it was still serving lion, horse, kangaroo... Good riddance. Time has changed
and the owner just didn't notice it. He blames it on Google while his business
simply fell out of fashion.
------
j_m_b
"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same
location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open
on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years,
don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner
himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there."
I imagine his problem could be more accurately blamed on the decor (it looks
hideous on the outside and that doesn't bode well for the inside) and the low
quality of food being served (unless there are lion,kangaroo and bear farms in
Virginia than that meat has probably been frozen).
With that being said, Google maps is far from perfect. They really should have
a way for business owners that they list to be able to update their store
information, especially for small businesses. How hard would it be to
implement a callback system that allowed an owner to make simple updates to
hours of business or to delete false/inaccurate listings? I guess they're too
busy trying to find places in their code base to replace 'if' statements with
bayesian filtering.
~~~
vinceguidry
From the article:
Demonstrating causation between a bad Google Maps listing and Serbian Crown’s
decline is going to be hard, though. For one thing, the restaurant’s Yelp
listing—also a big factor in choosing a dinner reservation—is packed with
abysmal, almost frightening, reviews. And there are any number of reasons a
restaurant—even an old, established one—can fail, as Google’s lawyers pointed
out an angry June 17 motion to dismiss the lawsuit.
People don't read anymore.
~~~
woodchuck64
Does the article actually thoroughly discredit its own title? People don't
write anymore.
~~~
vinceguidry
The article didn't discredit anything. The title is "How Google Map Hackers
Can Destroy a Business at Will" not "How Google Map Hackers Destroyed Serbian
Crown".
~~~
vdaniuk
But the article didn't support the title. The title supported by the article
could be "How Google Map Hackers Can Contribute To The Demise Of The
Restaurant On A Downhill Trajectory". This is just one sensationalist title.
~~~
vinceguidry
Why so much hate on the headline? The article itself is perfectly reasonable,
so just read and digest that. It sounds like you want to just read the title
and understand everything.
~~~
cratermoon
I used to be a copy editor, back in the day when newspapers had copy editors.
One of the jobs of a copy editor back then was to write the headline, and
write an _accurate_ one. My chief editor was tough on me, too, and it was hard
to come up with a good headline that fit the space and was accurate. She often
changed just one word or tense and cleared things up, but now and then she'd
can my headline entirely and rewrite it.
Today? Online news sites don't care about headline accuracy, just SEO and
linkbait rating. They don't even really have to care about length, to an
extent. "Subject That Will Blow Your Mind and Change the Way You See the
World. Top All-time. You Won’t Believe Your Eyes. Watch."
So yes, headlines have gotten useless.
~~~
vinceguidry
The only reason I look at a headline anymore for is to see what the topic is.
They're not useless for that.
~~~
wutbrodo
Isn't the topic in this case supposedly "How Google Maps can Destroy a
Business at Will"? A topic that isn't supported by the article content (as
discussed upthread)? That seems pretty "useless" to me.
~~~
vinceguidry
The topic is how local business is affected by Internet technologies. The
given title conveys that perfectly well, at least to me.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tell HN: Why I will Pirate 'Crossing The Chasm' . - OoTheNigerian
I have waited for months for Geoffery Moore's classic book Crossing The Chasm to be "available as in my country" .<p>Normally, changing my country to US will make the Kindle verson available to me.<p>So here I am, literally card in hand, unable to pay for a product that is available. I still cannot phantom the reason a Kindle book (a digital product) is available only in 'certain regions'.<p>So in 24 hours, if I do not find a way to pay for this book I will find a pirated copy.<p>I just hope this is not the beginning of a bad habbit.
======
glimcat
There are numerous such situations; it's a common pain point.
The problem with taking it as a business opportunity is that it usually
results not from anyone wanting to "fill the gap" but rather from licensing
conflicts.
There have been a few specific examples of companies profiting from this e.g.
companies with roots in anime fansubbing who license material then port it to
the US shortly after the Japanese broadcast and with higher standards of
translation. However, these cases are very rare and usually hinge on the
company's ability to negotiate with underserved rightsholders - not
underserved end users.
------
Natsu
> I still cannot phantom the reason a Kindle book
That's one of the most interesting phonetic substitutions I've seen in a long
time. (The expression is "cannot fathom the reason", BTW.)
~~~
kls
Funny story, I am dyslexic and it took me close to 2 minutes to figure out why
you where telling the author that what they wrote was wrong by writing the
same thing that they did. 2 minutes to spot phantom/fathom in 4 words, it's
going to be one of those days. I assume that English is a second languadge for
the author, but I could easily make that same mistake, then choose a spell
check word and never see it until someone pointed it out.
~~~
OoTheNigerian
I am not dyslexic but wondered the same thing. It was until I saw your
phantom/fathom comparison.
English is a first language but I think my poor spelling has stayed at the
level it was in high school due to 'F7' and Google's 'did you mean....'
------
revorad
Email me your address and I'll send you one.
~~~
OoTheNigerian
I love HN. Thanks buddy! Emailed you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Overnight success takes years - wwwjscom2
http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1624-overnight-success-takes-years
======
wwwjscom2
Also seems this post is in direct response to a question he received at his
Q/A. A link to the blog post about his talk was posted by another user just
recently (can't seem to find the user atm), <http://www.rubyrailways.com/dhh-
fuck-the-real-world/>
------
Rod
Quoting Steve Jobs:
_"Look underneath the covers of an overnight success story and you usually
see a lot of work, a lot of years."_
I remember reading this on Time or Newsweek, back in 1996 or something. Marc
Andreessen was on the cover of the magazine. It was quite an inspiring read.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Announcing WSL 2 - MikusR
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/
======
benaadams
> File intensive operations like git clone, npm install, apt update, apt
> upgrade, and more will all be noticeably faster. The actual speed increase
> will depend on which app you’re running and how it is interacting with the
> file system. Initial tests that we’ve run have WSL 2 running up to 20x
> faster compared to WSL 1 when unpacking a zipped tarball, and around 2-5x
> faster when using git clone, npm install and cmake on various projects.
------
MikusR
They are moving from reimplementing syscalls to running full Linux kernel
inside of a "lightweight utility virtual machine"
~~~
sebazzz
So how does that VM work behind the scenes? Somehow, things still need to be
written to a disk and go through the filesystem minifilters don't they?
------
sciurus
This is marked as a dupe, but searching I don't see another discussion.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Announcing%20WSL%202&sort=byDa...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Announcing%20WSL%202&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0)
Edit: it's
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842817](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842817)
------
Analemma_
Wow, this isn’t a translation layer anymore, this is just a straight-up built-
from-source Linux kernel inside Windows. O brave new world.
I’ve seen a couple people wondering why Microsoft doesn’t just ship a Linux
distro with a Win32 compatibility layer on top of it, and it seems like that
speculation is only going to increase now. Windows is still a long way from
that, but unmistakably drifting in that direction.
------
scjosh
Having just switched my home desktop from Windows/Linux dualboot, to full
Linux, this kind of makes me want to switch back to Windows. My only grievance
is nvidia driver support lacking on Linux at the moment.
------
freedrull
So they are writing their own kernel, but moving to using a VM? Why not use an
existing kernel if they are moving to using a VM...?
------
resoluteteeth
It sort of seems like a shame to throw out the entire approach and move to
something vm-based when it was already working so well, but I guess if it
improves both performance and compatibility it makes sense?
~~~
topspin
This started as "Bash On Windows," got embiggened to WSL and now we're finally
where it probably should have started; a tightly integrated VM running a
genuine Linux kernel. This also obviates some of the shade that has been
thrown at Microsoft's effort because this is no longer a reimplementation of
the Linux kernel.
So both technical and political improvements. I have few complaints.
~~~
earenndil
What's wrong with re-implementing the linux kernel? Why would people not like
that?
~~~
topspin
> What's wrong with re-implementing the linux kernel?
I don't know that there is anything _wrong_ with it. I do know there are those
that don't care to see Microsoft rehosting the Linux ecosystem on a
proprietary kernel and have seen WSL as more 'embrace, extend, extinguish'
behavior. One imagines that view must moderate some given that Microsoft is
now relying on the genuine GPL licensed kernel.
I believe I've hit my daily weasel word limit.
------
bovermyer
This is a _great_ update!
...I'm still running Linux bare when possible, though.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Mighty Named Pipe - vsbuffalo
http://vincebuffalo.com/2013/08/08/the-mighty-named-pipe.html
======
aidos
Nice article. Really easy to follow introduction.
I only discovered process substitution a few months ago but it's already
become a frequently used tool in my kit.
One thing that I find a little annoying about unix commands sometimes is how
hard it can be to google for them. '<()', nope, "command as file argument to
other command unix," nope. The first couple of times I tried to use it, I knew
it existed but struggled to find any documentation. "Damnit, I know it's
something like that, how does it work again?..."
Unless you know to look for "Process Substitution" it can be hard to find
information on these things. And that's once you even know these things
exist....
Anyone know a good resource I should be using when I find myself in a
situation like that?
~~~
Kiro
A bit OT but I don't understand why Google doesn't supply a way to do strict
searches where everything you input is interpreted literally.
~~~
reitanqild
They have, I have complained loudly about this[1], never hard anything back
(this is SOP I understand), but I have seen improvements last year.
Double quotes around part of a query means make sure this part is actually
matched in the index. (I think they still annoy me be including sites that are
linked to using this phrase[2], but that is understandable.)
Then there is the "verbatim" setting that you can activate under search tools
> "All results" dropdown.
[1]:And the reason they annoyed me was because they would still fuzz my
queries despite me doublequoting and choosing verbatim.
[2]: To verify this you could open the cached version and on top of the page
you'd see something along the lines of: "the following terms exist only in
links pointing to this page."
~~~
tokenizerrr
They still ignore any special characters:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%3C()%22&tbs=li:1](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%3C\(\)%22&tbs=li:1)
------
unhammer
Once you discover <() it's hard not to (ab)use it everywhere :-)
# avoid temporary files when some program needs two inputs:
join -e0 -o0,1.1,2.1 -a1 -a2 -j2 -t$'\t' \
<(sort -k2,2 -t$'\t' freq/forms.${lang}) \
<(sort -k2,2 -t$'\t' freq/lms.${lang})
# gawk doesn't care if it's given a regular file or the output fd of some process:
gawk -v dict=<(munge_dict) -f compound_translate.awk <in.txt
# prepend a header:
cat <(echo -e "${word}\t% ${lang}\tsum" | tr [:lower:] [:upper:]) \
<(coverage ${lang})
~~~
repsilat
> # gawk doesn't care if it's given a regular file or the output fd of some
> process:
Something wonderful I found out the other day: Bash executes scripts as it
parses them, so you can do all kinds of awful things. For starters,
bash <(yes echo hello)
will have bash execute an infinite script that looks like
echo hello
echo hello
echo hello
...
without trying to load the whole thing first.
After that, you can move onto having a script append to itself and whatever
other dreadful things you can think of.
~~~
unhammer
That's actually one of the things that I really dislike with bash, that it
doesn't read the whole script before executing it. I've been bitten by it
before, when I write some long-running script, then e.g. write a comment at
the top of it as it's running, and then when bash looks for the next command,
it's shifted a bit and I get (at best) a syntax error and have to re-run :-(
~~~
LukeShu
There are several ways to get Bash to read the whole thing before executing.
My preferred method is to write a main() function, and call main "$@" at the
very end of the script.
Another trick, useful for shorter scripts, is to just wrap the body of the
script in {}, which causes the script to be a giant compound command that is
parsed before any of it is executed; instead of a list of commands that is
executed as read.
~~~
unhammer
Ah, thank you for that. I may just start using these tricks in all my scripts
:-)
------
larsf
Pipes are probably the original instantiation of dataflow processing (dating
back to the 1960s). I gave a tech talk on some of the frameworks:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oaelUXh7sE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oaelUXh7sE)
And my company creates a cool dataflow platform -
[https://composableanalytics.com](https://composableanalytics.com)
~~~
noselasd
[http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/pipes/](http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/pipes/) . And
there's a bit more about how pipes came to be in unix here: [http://cm.bell-
labs.com/who/dmr/hist.html](http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/hist.html)
------
Malarkey73
Vince Buffalo is author of the best book on bioinformatics: Bioinformatics
Data Skills (O'Reilly). It's worth a read for learning unix/bash style data
science of any flavour.
Or even if you think you know unix/bash and data there are new and unexpected
snippets every few pages that surprise you.
------
dbbolton
In zsh, =(cmd) will create a temporary file, <(cmd) will create a named pipe,
and $(cmd) creates a subshell. There are also fancy options that use MULTIOS.
For example:
paste <(cut -f1 file1) <(cut -f3 file2) | tee >(process1) >(process2) >/dev/null
can be re-written as:
paste <(cut -f1 file1) <(cut -f3 file2) > >(process1) > >(process2)
[http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Expansion.html#Proces...](http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Expansion.html#Process-
Substitution)
[http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Redirection.html#Redi...](http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Redirection.html#Redirection)
------
amelius
If you like pipes, then you will love lazy evaluation. It is unfortunate,
though, that Unix doesn't support that (operations can block when "writing"
only, not when "nobody is reading").
~~~
falcolas
If nobody is reading, you will eventually fill the pipe buffer (which is about
4k), and the writing will stop. It's a bigger queue than most of us would
expect when compared to generator expressions, but it can and does create back
pressure while making reads efficient.
~~~
noselasd
*about 4k
64k on linux these days.
------
baschism
AFAIK process substitution is a bash-ism (not part of POSIX spec for /bin/sh).
I recently had to go with the slightly less wieldy named pipes in a dash
environment and put the pipe setup, command execution and teardown in a
script.
------
mhax
I've used *nix for ~15 years and never used a named pipe or process
substitution before. Great to know about!
~~~
a3n
Named pipes have been rare for me, but simple process substitution is every
day.
Very often I do something like this in quick succession. Command line editing
makes this trivial.
$ find . -name "*blarg*.cpp"
# Some output that looks like what I'm looking for.
# Run the same find again in a process, and grep for something.
$ grep -i "blooey" $(find . -name "*blarg*.cpp")
# Yep, those are the files I'm looking for, so dig in.
# Note the additional -l in grep, and the nested processes.
$ vim $(grep -il "blooey" $(find . -name "*blarg*.cpp"))
~~~
icebraining
That's actually command substitution, not process substitution :)
~~~
a3n
Thanks for the correction. The unix is large and I'm so very small.
------
anateus
In fish shell the canonical example is this:
diff (sort a.txt|psub) (sort b.txt|psub)
The psub command performs the process substitution.
~~~
frankerz
It seems like fish shell's ">" process substitution equivalence is not working
as well as bash's though
[https://github.com/fish-shell/fish-
shell/issues/1786](https://github.com/fish-shell/fish-shell/issues/1786)
------
AndrewSB
Does anyone have a working link to Gary Bernhardt's The Unix Chainsaw, as
mentioned in the article?
~~~
agumonkey
That's the kind of video I might have downloaded. At least I hope so. Gonna
check my backups.
update 1 : found it, time to upload.
~~~
AndrewSB
Thank you kind sir. Waiting for a link
~~~
agumonkey
[http://goo.gl/X5jo83](http://goo.gl/X5jo83)
------
frankerz
How does the > process substitution differ from simply piping the output with
| ?
For example (from Wikipedia)
tee >(wc -l >&2) < bigfile | gzip > bigfile.gz
vs
tee < bigfile | wc -l | gzip > bigfile.gz
~~~
unhammer
Say that you have a program that splits its output into two files, each given
by command line arguments. A normal run would be
<input.txt munge-data-and-split -o1 out1.txt -o2 out2.txt
but since the output is huge and your disk is old and dying, you want to run
xz on it before saving it to disk, so use >():
<input.txt munge-data-and-split -o1 >(xz - > out1.txt) -o2 >(xz - > out2.txt)
If you want to do several things in there, I recommend defining a function for
clarity:
pp () { sort -k2,3 -t$'\t' | xz - ; }
<input.txt munge-data-and-split -o1 >(pp > out1.txt) -o2 >(pp > out2.txt)
------
chuckcode
Anybody know of a way to increase the buffer size of pipes? I've experienced
cases where piping a really fast program to a slow one caused them both to go
slower as the OS pauses first program writing when pipe buffer is full. This
seemed to ruin the caching for the first program and caused them both to be
slower even though normally pipes are faster as you're not touching disk.
~~~
jquast
Both mbuffer and pv by default contain fairly large in-memory buffers for pipe
data, and accept parameters for particularly large buffers.
[http://www.maier-komor.de/mbuffer.html](http://www.maier-
komor.de/mbuffer.html)
[http://www.ivarch.com/programs/pv.shtml](http://www.ivarch.com/programs/pv.shtml)
~~~
chuckcode
Thanks - hoping that there was a built in solution but a buffer program makes
sense
------
jamesrom
Is this guy a bioinformatician? I think he's a bioinformatician.
Can't be sure if he is a bioinformatician because he never really mentions
that he is a bioinformatician.
~~~
pmags
Seems entirely appropriate given his blog post, and others like it on his site
as well as the book he wrote, are clearly aimed at people interested in
learning bioinformatics.
------
leni536
moreutils [1] has some really cool programs for pipe handling.
pee: tee standard input to pipes sponge: soak up standard input and write to a
file ts: timestamp standard input vipe: insert a text editor into a pipe
[1] [https://joeyh.name/code/moreutils/](https://joeyh.name/code/moreutils/)
------
hitlin37
i heard somewhere that go follows unix pipe link interfaces.
------
Dewie
Pipes are very cool and useful, but it's hard for me to understand this common
_worship_ of something like that. Yes, it's useful and elegant, but is it
really the best thing since Jesus Christ?
~~~
Dewie
Wow. I guess that's what I get for not being totally enamoured of Unix.
~~~
JustSomeNobody
No, that's not why you were down voted. You were down voted because you were
condescending to the people who enjoy working with *nix.
~~~
Dewie
It really is a question that I've been having for a long time. I didn't just
say that to piss people off. I guess that's the risk you run of coming across
when you try to insert yourself in a conversation where the other participants
have already agreed on a set of shared opinions - this is _great_ \- and you
try to question that common assumption/opinion.
I have honestly been questioning my own understanding of _pipe_ , since I've
failed to see the significance before; first I thought it was just `a | b` as
in "first do a, then b". So then it just seemed like a notational way of
composing programs. Then I thought, uh, ok say what? Composing things is the
oldest trick in the conceptual book. But then I read more about it and saw
that it had this underlying wiring of standard input and output and forking
processes that made me realize that I had underestimated it. So, given that, I
was wondering if there is even more that I've been missing.
I have for that matter read about named pipes before and tried it out a bit.
It's definitely a cool concept.
~~~
tedunangst
Perhaps try questioning shared opinions without using the word worship?
~~~
Dewie
I'll have to admit that that sounded unnecessarily judgy. :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple: Lion Launches Wednesday July 20 - digiwizard
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_lion_launches_wednesday_july_20/
======
president
Hopefully there will some sort of method to allow for clean installs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Bitcoin may never hit the mainstream – decimal points - bradnickel
http://clickbrain.com/miami/bitcoin-may-never-hit-mainstream-usability-2/
======
ikt
I agree completely and this has been the main drag I have with bitcoin, people
struggle with whole numbers let alone decimals! This will frustrate people to
the point of no return. A universal currency system has to be built with the
lowest common denominator in mind.
~~~
bradnickel
Couldn't agree more!
------
ics
We say "calories" when we mean kCals– if Bitcoin does become completely
mainstream, I see no reason why casual users wouldn't just say "bitcoins"
instead of "milliBits".
~~~
bradnickel
I do hope you are right and that the extreme fractional math won't be an
issue, but have my concerns still, because the valuation is so critical to the
meaning of the names. It won't be like a dime that always means the same
thing, because the average value of a dollar doesn't impact thinking through
daily purchases.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: AidName.com - We'll Help Find Your Startup's Perfect .Com Name - AidName
http://www.aidname.com
======
AidName
Hi HN,
AidName is a service which will help you find the best available .COM names
for your startup or project. We noticed that naming projects was a problem a
lot of people were experiencing and we wanted to help solve this problem. Any
feedback is greatly appreciated.
~~~
Brainix
Hi, AidName.
Your product seems really interesting, and I almost signed up... Then I
noticed that "AidName" isn't a very inspired name.
I don't doubt the quality of your offering - by my advice would be that your
own project needs a name (and branding) with more sex.
Just my $0.02. Good luck! Raj
~~~
AidName
We do own NameMage.com, but feel AidName is more straight forward for regular
folks. You can still try out our free offering to see if we meet your
standards. We even offer a satisfaction or your money back Assurance Kit if
you want to try that out too. We appreciate the feedback!
------
yashchandra
I am confused between Customer Kit and Starter Kit. Your custom kit signup
button does not show any price but the starter kit shows $99.
~~~
AidName
The custom kit allows you to choose the number of available .COM names you
want. You can select the amount you want in the Quantity drop down menu. Based
on the amount it should show the Total Price. The Starter Kit is an
introductory kit which offers a 20% discount for a set of 5 available .COM
names. Hope this helps!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How important are ergonomics to you? - kayoone
In an never ending race to improve myself and my productivity i also think alot about the perfect hardware, software and enviroment. I bet many of you do aswell. I probably think way to much about this which isnt good for my productivity in the first place, just like surfing on HN and similar sites, but have to do what it takes to feel comfortable.<p>I currently use a pretty powerful Windows 7 box with Dual 24" Dell IPS Screens. In ergonomic terms, this is very good.<p>* Both displays have the same size, resolution and DPI<p>* Both screens upper corner is where my eyes look at when i sit in front of it comfortably<p>* Both screens are about an arm length away<p>* i can move the keyboard around<p>* my chair is prolly not perfect, but i dont have the money for one of those airon chairs yet<p>Sitting in front of this setup all day, i feel its important to think about such stuff. Yet i see alot of people here or elsewhere (like Facebook or other startup) offices that work from a Laptop all day which is something i think about doing since i hate syncing my workspace data and logins/bookmarks etc on seperate machines. So i find the thought of having everything i work on with me all the time very compelling. I also want to change back to Mac only (i had a MBP last year), just so you know.<p>The drawbacks of this approach for me:<p>* i am used to having 2 large Displays for years, will a Laptop + external screen hinder my productivity (although the latest 15" MBPs have a 1680x1050 resoultion which is almost the res of my Dells)<p>* a Laptop + external screen have hugely different size and DPI, which is not ergonomic<p>* plugging in all the external stuff all the time if i want to show something to somebody or stuff like that speaks against a Laptop only solution and for something like a mac mini + 2 displays and a macbook air 13". Best of both worlds basically, but again the need to discipline yourself and sync all the relevant data to have everything in place<p>So id like to know what the folks here think about that, as i just cant decide on whether to go with a 15" MBP for everything or a 13" Air + mac mini/pro. I dont like iMacs, having them with a second screen doesnt really fit, glossy displays arent ergonomical and MBP + external screen does the same for me.<p>thanks in advance. Now i should prolly get back to work ;)
======
enygmata
It's very important for us all, i dare to say its even more important for
people doing creative work (which in my opinion includes programming).
One thing people must pay attention when they get stuff is that it doesn't
help you if you get something that do not fit your body's ergonomics needs.
Just because an HelloWorld chair helped someone to relief his back pain
doesn't mean it will work for you.
~~~
kayoone
yes thats right, however there are some suggestions for an ergonomic workplace
which i have pointed out above and working only on a laptop is definatly not
as ergonomic as working on a Desktop. Still many people on here seem to prefer
laptop only.
------
treo
If you want to use a notebook your main computer I think a docking station is
a must. The problem is that, if you want to go with a macbook you there are no
really decent docking options for it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Uber's China Rival Close to Raising $2B in New Funding - davidiach
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-06/uber-china-rival-said-close-to-raising-2-billion-in-new-funding
======
tluyben2
I have used Didi quite a bit, it's somewhat easier to arrange custom deals
with the drivers, like all-day-driver, etc. But the Uber experience was a lot
smoother for simple rides from A->B, at least for foreigners. This is in
Shanghai/Beijing and surrounding cities.
------
epynonymous
couple of notes, uber is backed obviously by google, but also by baidu which
has deep governmental ties in china (sorry no reference, but the fact that
it's the number 1 search engine in china all these years should tell you
enough). uber, in fact, uses baidu maps in china for gps.
didi is backed by tencent which is the whatsapp clone maker (wechat) and i
think alibaba.
essentially it's very easy for the chinese government to block out foreign web
apps/services, just create a rule on the great firewall followed by regulation
to enforce large fines. but they havent done it yet, why? because imho uber
and didi help to solve one of the government's biggest urban problems,
efficient transportation. yes, sometimes they have small scale crackdowns at
airports and train stations to catch uber drivers, but that's just for show to
calm down the taxi companies which are government backed and didi, taxi
companies have been known to go on strike causing the government to have to
resolve things.
it used to also be that uber was only paying taxes in usa, but now they're
also lawfully paying taxes which should be another revenue stream for the
government which is needed in this current economy.
------
yueq
I have used DiDi quite often when I was in Shanghai last year. It was a very
pleasant experience comparing using Uber in China.
I'm very confident Didi will have a much larger impact than Uber, at least in
Chinese market.
------
fossuser
I'd heard that the Chinese government unfairly favors local companies. Is this
no longer the case?
Seems like it'd be difficult for uber to compete in a rigged game.
~~~
frozenport
They still do. Indeed Carl Icahn recently dumped his Apple stock for this
exact reason. Your market status in China is temporary, until the government
can replace you. More interestingly there are few Western companies that have
actually made a net positive cash flow out of China, even those that today
have large market shares ( such as automotive).
The relationship has consistently been unilateral free trade in the long term,
with investors giving money for market share and getting little in return.
~~~
eva1984
Your argument doesn't hold. Apple is pretty replaceable in China, yet they are
making yuge money from this one market.
~~~
Nicholas_C
Apple had a 2016 Q1 YoY decrease of 25% for revenue in China. They are still
making good money but the future is very uncertain for those cash flows.
~~~
eva1984
Because 6S is a boring phone, and people didn't want it as bad as 6.
------
GordonS
What would they _do_ with that much money?
~~~
joeblau
Both need capital to pay for recruiting drivers and subsidizing customer fares.
Last sentence, 3rd paragraph.
~~~
robk
Or just last three words "subsidizing customer fares" is probably the bulk of
it
~~~
joeblau
Recruiting drivers is also fairly expensive. I've seen a ton of "Get $500 to
start driving for <service>" all over the place. I'm sure similar campaigns
are being run in China as well.
------
krzrak
It's sad when they write about you on Bloomberg and instead of your name
there's only "Uber's China rival"...
~~~
Fennhella
Especially when that makes it sound neck on neck when in reality Uber is
trailing Didi Chuxing (formerly Didi Kuaidi) by a wide margin.
Didi Chuxing has 87.2% of the market according to research from the China
Internet Network Information Center.
[http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-01/11/c_134998758.htm](http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-01/11/c_134998758.htm)
~~~
AustinMunday
I feel like that is expected. Uber can't win China if they don't want it too.
The Chinese state and people naturally want to produce this service (and
others, i.e. search engine) themselves, they don't need or want foreign
companies taking their market.
~~~
realitycheckx
Disagree. Uber is not winning in China for one reason only - Didi is better
than Uber. It has nothing to do with Chinese government or people. Chinese
people love foreign brands, which are seen as being better and higher quality.
They buy iPhones, go to Startbucks etc.
~~~
foobarqux
Why is Didi better?
------
desireco42
Uber's China rival has a name.
~~~
untog
But how many Bloomberg readers would be able to identify that name in a
headline?
~~~
desireco42
It is a billion dollar company, just because it is not US based, we should
know it's name.
~~~
untog
Right, but we don't. If you took a poll right now I'd bet the vast majority of
HN does not know its name. So IMO Bloomberg are absolutely right to not use
the name in a headline - they _do_ use the name in the article, which makes
total sense.
------
modanq
Both companies are hemorrhaging cash by operating in China. Its a game of who
can survive longer, capital infusions are a way to lengthen the runway. Seems
like an ugly battle.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Structured approach to learning Python/Django - naithemilkman
Can anyone recommend a sequential order of books and resources to read and learn to learn Python and Django?<p>Suppose my objective is to create a simple webapp and host it on Google App Engine, what should I be reading when?<p>I've started with Learning Python the Hardway and I'm currently going through Head First Python. Next up on my reading list is The Definitive Guide to Django Web Development Done Right.
======
limedaring
Just launched my first webapp, built to teach myself Python and Django. Don't
get too wrapped up in books and just think of a webapp to build... and then do
it. I know infinitely more now because I would think, "I need so and so" and
through Googling/Stack Overflow/friends, I'd figure out how to launch it.
I did Learn Python the Hard Way to start, then the main Django tutorial as
well as Kenneth Love's blog tutorial at <http://gigantuan.net/> (as well as
lots of random tutorials/blog posts). Otherwise, I haven't read any books.
The app launched last night: <http://www.weddinginvitelove.com>
tl;dr: Make sure you're learning by doing. Make a random web app, it'll help
things "stick" way faster.
~~~
rudasn
I've been through Django's docs several times and also bought the book from
Kaplan Moss (don't recall the name, for v. 0.96). I read most of the book a
couple of times. It took me more than a year to actually do something that
worked, most of the stuff was just experimenting. Now that I have something
that works I find myself learning more stuff about Python and Django itself.
So what I'd say is try to do something very simple that you would actually
use. Perhaps a to-do list or some sort of notepad? In my case it was just some
sort of a video bookmarking app (actually I spent more time on the
design/front-end than the backend).
~~~
limedaring
Yeah, exactly what I was trying to say — WIL was an app I've wanted to build
for a long time and I used it to learn Django too.
I wouldn't worry about whether you're copying an existing app as well — just
make something that interests you.
------
nudge
Django's own documentation is extremely good. You can work through its
tutorials to get going.
But start with a python tutorial. I don't know which is the best, but other
people should be able to help you.
I would suggest this order of learning though:
1\. Python 2\. Django 3\. App Engine
Each introduces its own elements, so you're better proceeding step by step.
Obviously you don't have to master python to get going with django, but you
want to be comfortable.
~~~
naithemilkman
Thats what Im thinking as well.
------
rguzman
The first step is to learn python. If you already know how to program this
should be quick (< 72 hrs) following the official tutorial:
<http://docs.python.org/tutorial/>
The second thing, go through the django tutorial which should take < 48 hrs:
<http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/intro/tutorial01/>
Third, come up with a project for yourself and start trying to make it happen
using the django docs and stackoverflow as references. This is the most
important step. Don't worry too much about the right way to do things or
efficiency, just get something working.
Also, don't worry about deploying your app (i.e. getting it running behind
nginx, etc). Just use a sqlite3 database and the django dev server until
you're comfortable with the different pieces of django.
Take a look at how the generic views, the contrib apps, and the popular 3rd
party apps are written to get some feel for what are good practices in writing
apps.
~~~
naithemilkman
So you reckon dump google app engine and get going first?
------
pamelafox
If you're looking to host on App Engine, I strongly recommend
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522735>
It is a great intro to App Engine & the datastore generally but also puts a
bit more emphasis on Python/Django than on Java development, so it is well
suited for Python devs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why isn't your API specification public? - allthingsapi
http://www.apiful.io/intro/2016/04/26/where-is-the-spec.html
======
andrewstuart2
Not a single mention of the human element, which I will theorize is the main
reason.
Psychologically, looking at a formal specification is pretty intimidating. How
many people do you know who enjoy sitting down with a cup of coffee/tea and
their favorite time-worn leather-bound copy of RFC7231?
Most developers I know love getting something to work. They love the feeling
of having mastered something to the point that just reading "GET /widgets" is
enough for them to go off to curl and implement the rest ad-hoc as they're
visually inspecting the JSON and occasionally referring back to the docs.
Creating formal specs is probably the most efficient way to go in a purely
computational sense, but reading specs is hard work and it's not especially
inviting or rewarding, especially to a class of workers that would much rather
jump in, get their hands dirty, and figure it out themselves. It's why
developers love frameworks/APIs that just _feel_ simple and familiar. The low
cognitive overhead, and low barrier to entry gets you into a wonderfully
endorphin-driven flow that's hard to replicate.
Formal specifications are great. But they won't likely get read by people. And
people, not machines, are going to drive your profit as a business offering a
shiny API.
So should you focus on your formal spec first, or human-readable API
documentation? Probably the latter. And good luck convincing the business
owners that a spec is a high priority now that you technically have everything
covered.
~~~
aslom
I agree with the argument: developers like reading web pages that describe how
to use API, covering rationale of API design, gotchas, code samples.
However, what if the specs were able to capture what is in such human-readable
pages (for example [https://docs.cloudant.com/](https://docs.cloudant.com/))?
What if API spec could be automatically derived out of HTML pages? Embed some
metadata in HTML page and then we have both cake (human-readable) and eat it
(machine-readable)?
~~~
frio
That sounds very much like [API
Blueprints]([https://apiblueprint.org/](https://apiblueprint.org/)), which
[Apiary]([https://apiary.io/](https://apiary.io/)) back. I tried to get the
organisation I work for to standardise on them (being able to run tests from a
versioned API specification seemed like a fantastic way to hit two birds with
one stone), but sadly, couldn't convince enough people.
~~~
ewittern
What were the reasons people brought up against doing this?
~~~
frio
Mostly inertia. We're a large-ish company; I work in a remote office away from
the majority of dev, and technical direction needs marketing.
We ended up using Swagger, which doesn't solve as many of our problems (having
documentation generated from code isn't as robust from a testing POV,
particularly when your RESTful API is versioned), but my "perfect" is the
enemy of the company's "good" :).
------
7373737373
One of the things that striked me when I worked on my first API was that all
of service registration, search, payments and certification incur a lot of
overhead. Most of these problems are addressed by using third party platforms
and middleware (for example Mashape + Kong). But this seems to restrict
findability to this one platform and also introduces nontrivial dependencies
and fees even for small projects.
Therefore, I am trying to find or create systems that do this without this
requirement, in a mostly trustless p2p fashion, starting with an extension to
the OpenAPI spec:
[http://i.imgur.com/4mmckZ9.png](http://i.imgur.com/4mmckZ9.png)
[https://gist.github.com/void4/523f23b50e1572e8ef60](https://gist.github.com/void4/523f23b50e1572e8ef60)
I wonder what comes after that. Most probably different transports and
patterns of interactions.
[http://iris.karalabe.com/](http://iris.karalabe.com/) might show how it will
look like.
~~~
krsyoung
You blew my mind a little bit there ... so you're introducing the notion of a
super light-weight subscription / payment system to sidecar the API
specification itself? This something that would make sense with state-less
services vs those requiring some investment by the service provider (i.e. some
account with more backend overhead)?
Having the API specification cover more of the business/service aspects is
very interesting (could you possibly define cost per call per endpoint or per
payload size for instance).
~~~
7373737373
Yes.
The only costs that would occur would be transaction fees for changing state
in the Ethereum network (which is only required once for registering the
service and at the order of half a cent at the current scalability level) and
a similar amount for opening and closing the payment channels. I'm currently
implementing a prototype extending [http://hug.rest](http://hug.rest). If
executed correctly, the following three lines of Python:
@hug.get("/pay_world", requires=pay("$0.001")) def pay_world(): return "You
paid for this"
would result in the framework generating the OpenAPI spec amended with the
payment metadata in the background and making it available under the service
root. A middleware layer would check every ingoing request for payment
signatures, closing the payment channel if necessary. Interesting things would
become possible, although it is not clear if it all will succeed. Many
different kinds of payment mechanisms would be conceivable, from pay-per-call
to subscription based. Hypothetically, you could even pay APIs with gold
backed cryptocurrency or tokens you issued yourself.
See here for a similar project and reasoning:
[https://github.com/etherapis/etherapis](https://github.com/etherapis/etherapis)
------
IvanGoncharov
I think API owner need to see some value in publishing spec. And SDK
generation, not a strong argument for publishing since it can be done on API
owner side with more control and better quality.
IMHO key component here is automatic integration, you simply publish a link to
your spec and you magically have integration with a number of 3rd-party
tools/services.
I currently work on catalog which does exactly this, and you can see list of
integrations here: [https://github.com/APIs-guru/api-models#existing-
integration...](https://github.com/APIs-guru/api-models#existing-integrations)
~~~
krsyoung
IvanGoncharov, you've done much work in this space in trying to innovate
around Web APIs (thanks for that!).
I think realityking nailed it in terms of the API community needing to define
compelling use cases. The catch 22 here is that it is hard for people to
innovate around API specifications when they are so hard to get! Per the SDKs
... what if there was a NPM.org or rubygems equivalent of high quality SDKs
that get automatically generated whenever I push a new API specification? That
seems like it could be cool.
And your example of automated composition is fantastic! Curious if you are
able to share how much work it is for you to get access to the specifications
in order to make this possible? If we invented a common practice to publish
something like api.company.com/spec.yaml could you have spent a lot more time
on making cool integrations vs mining specs?
~~~
wing328hk
Per the SDKs ...
If you've a Swagger/OpenAPI spec, you can use Swagger Codegen
([https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-codegen](https://github.com/swagger-
api/swagger-codegen)), a free and open-source project, to generate API clients
(SDKs) in C#, Ruby, PHP, Java, ObjC, etc.
Here is an example: [https://github.com/wing328/petstore-
php](https://github.com/wing328/petstore-php)
You can also use Swagger Codegen to generate server stub in SpringMVC, PHP
Slim and more.
Disclosure: I'm a top contributor to Swagger Codegen.
(To convert RAML, API blueprint, WSDL, etc to Swagger/OpenAPI spec 2.0, please
try [https://github.com/lucybot/api-spec-
converter](https://github.com/lucybot/api-spec-converter) \- an open-source
converter written in NodeJS)
------
realityking
I'm wondering if there's actually a widespread demand/need for public API
specs.
Contentful's API specification (in the blue print format) has been open for a
while as a side effect of opening up our documentation. I'm not aware of any
user ever using for anything but the generated documentation (and there have
been bugs in the past that would have made things like generated test servers
break quite nicely).
What (potential) use case am I missing?
~~~
ewittern
What do you think about automatic generation of client-code in various
languages?
With regards to the bugs, were they a result of the implementation and the
specification getting out of sync? Would automatic means for creating /
maintaining specs be able to help here?
~~~
7373737373
I spend the last few weeks trying to find an appropriate SDL for my project
but have otherwise no experience in creating APIs.
In my opinion, API specs should probably be generated from code and its
documentation, and not the reverse. This is because it is the code and not the
spec which is subject to most change and only the endpoint
interfaces/signatures can be generated. API specifications could also be more
easily transformed by middleware (e.g. when renaming endpoints, combining
APIs) if they were machine generated.
As was described above, only few people are acquainted with service
description languages, and deeper changes in their semantics over time or the
choice of an alternative would require a manual rewrite. Also, some SDLs seem
to impose their own higher level ontologies and name spaces, which is another
major obstacle to usage for simple systems.
~~~
krsyoung
First, it is too bad that you spent weeks and probably didn't find the "right"
solution (because it doesn't seem to exist).
Second, I like your enthusiasm for specs from code ... the problem
(opportunity?) today is that the specifications intertwine human readable
descriptions / summaries with the actual endpoint / payload information.
I would hate for my devops pipeline to kick-off because somebody fixed a typo
in some human focused in-line documentation. I personally don't think it
belongs in the code but absolutely agree with the spirit of your comment (if
you keep them separate it is more work and they will get out of sync!).
The best luck I have is working within the specification (i.e. Swagger) and
avoiding doing things that don't model well. This seems backwards, but for
most of the development I've been involved with to date it has served the
projects well.
Interested if others have had luck embedding API specs into code.
~~~
ewittern
Mixing code with documentation is one concern. Another issue is that
extracting the information needed to create a Swagger from source code is
hard, especially when using dynamic languages (JavaScript, Python). One
approach is to use dedicated annotators to relate code with parts of an API
spec - but then you have the first problem again...
------
krsyoung
A possible reason is the fear of losing intellectual property. Providing a
machine readable format makes duplication much easier (although you'd still
have to deal with the implementation). The funny part is that the Oracle vs
Google API Lawsuit in effect sets a precedent that protects API specs - so
this should really not be the case.
------
Spidler
Our [API]([https://www.modio.se/pages/api-
doc.html](https://www.modio.se/pages/api-doc.html)) documentation is public,
but that makes for little value, as identification is made using TLS
certificates.
Yes, the API is public, but you need a Cert bound to your user data to get
anything from it.
~~~
krsyoung
Spidler, what you show is nice, to the point documentation for human
consumption. The API specification mentioned is related to things like OpenAPI
Specification
([http://swagger.io/specification/](http://swagger.io/specification/)) or RAML
([http://raml.org](http://raml.org)) which are used to model APIs in a machine
readable way and then lend to automating things like documentation, SDKs or
mock test servers.
This is an orthogonal issue to whether or not the API itself is publicly
accessible.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Byte Magazine Covers - ChrisArchitect
http://www.jsommer.com/ByteMagCovers/CoverGallery.php
======
webmaven
Nice! I always loved the Robert Tinney covers:
[http://www.tinney.net/Prints/11x14/index.htm](http://www.tinney.net/Prints/11x14/index.htm)
[http://www.tinney.net/Prints/16x20/index.htm](http://www.tinney.net/Prints/16x20/index.htm)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tossing Algebraic Flowers Down the Great Divide (1997) [pdf] - haskellandchill
https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~goguen/pps/tcs97.pdf
======
PaulFB
Goguen, so prolific! the ADJ group, OBJ, Maude, CafeOBJ, Clear, The Semiotic
Zoo, Sheaves, Institutions. I understand maybe 5% of this stuff. Why has
Goguen's work not sparked more research? Especially with the emphases on
Algebraic Specification and Category theory? Is Goguen still ahead of his
time?
------
unsatchmo
"Computers are the only significant commodity to ever get progressively
cheaper as they get better, throughout their entire history".
It seems to me like most things get cheaper as they get better. At least
anything that benefits from improvements to a manufacturing process, economies
of scale and iterated design... which is most mass manufactured goods.
~~~
SomeStupidPoint
I think it's just rare that there's ever a gap as big as there has been with
computers between the first prototype and the current consumer grade
equipment.
Ignoring for a moment the per cycle efficiency increase (which is non-trivial
and adds a couple orders of magnitude extra), a modern CPU is ~500,000 times
faster than ENIAC was, which was itself a ~1,000 times faster than other
computing solutions at the time, at a cost of $6,500,000 to $100.
So per dollar, you're getting 32 _billion_ times the computer. It's actually
more like a _trillion_ times the computer if you count in per-instruction
efficiency gains.
Yeah, we get _better_ at most things, but almost no other thing have we gotten
so much explosively better at it than computers.
You can argue clothes, screws, cars, shoes, whatever are better now than they
used to be. Maybe they are. But they're not a _billion_ times better per
dollar. I suspect that most of them strain to be a _thousand_ times better per
dollar.
~~~
Pamar
What about cars? Or planes?
~~~
biofox
One of the first consumer cars is considered to be the Benz Patent-Motorwagen
[1].
Adjusted price: $3,998
Maximum speed: 10 mph
The improvements in performance and price are not even those seen in
computers.
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Patent-
Motorwagen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Patent-Motorwagen)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Verizon to allow unlimited Skype calling over 3G starting next month - mshafrir
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/verizon-to-allow-unlimited-skype-calling-over-3g-starting-next-m/?s=t5
======
wmf
"You cannot use the Skype client to make any calls to U.S. PSTN numbers."
according to GigaOM <http://gigaom.com/2010/02/16/skype-verizon-iphone/>
------
portman
Is this really big news? The Skype for Android client has supported Skype
calls for over one year. It works around the carriers' limitations by
initiating an outbound call to a toll-free Skype number.
Every day, I happily roll down the highway at 75mph talking to my Skype
contacts in Europe and Asia.
How is this any different for me? (Note: it's much cheaper for Skype, because
they can now offer the same functionality without maintaining the toll-free
local numbers that they need to maintain today.)
~~~
s3graham
I don't think it's news until you can get a phone without a voice plan.
~~~
technomancy
[http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-
detail.a...](http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-
detail.aspx?tp=tb1&rateplan=T-Mobile-Total-Internet-Rate-Plan)
I use this with my Nexus One. Works for SIP and tethering.
------
aditya
What's the rational behind this? Are they hoping that people won't abuse it
because the quality isn't that great? Or are they just making more of their
money off data than voice now to justify this?
Hard to believe, in any case, perhaps Skype is giving them a kickback now that
it is an independent entity and can make disruptive progress again without
being held back by the bureaucracy that is ebay.
~~~
maukdaddy
Data is becoming cheaper/easier to deploy than voice. Eventually all "voice"
traffic will be data, this is just an intermediate step.
~~~
JunkDNA
You hit it right. According to this article:
<http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-10453550-78.html> Verizon is having
trouble getting voice to work over LTE in their test markets, so they are
going to go data only on LTE initially and use CDMA for voice. When I read
that, I wondered if the voice problem was a function of something basic in LTE
(like latency) or if the voice gear just doesn't play well with LTE yet. If
it's the latter, then Skype VoIP applications would help offload voice traffic
from CDMA for "power users".
~~~
aarghh
Voice over LTE is supposed to work using IMS - but will require a fairly
expensive upgrade to the network. Operators are keenly aware of the pitfalls
of over-the-top voice losing them revenue, but this is an experiment to see if
they can do away with IMS altogether. That, and the fact that someone else may
try it first...
------
j_b_f
I'll believe it when I see it (that said, I really hope to see it).
| {
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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies - raesene9
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-slippery-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested
======
raxxorrax
I see a lot of people arguing about mods being too strict.
I abhor the recent trend of content decontamination like many others do. But
for Q&A sites like SE, I think it is a necessity to stay on topic.
Yes, some moderators might have been too eager in some cases, happened to me
too. But since these people are all volunteers, I think they should get some
support from the community.
I mean I might have to look for another job if SE ever gets shut down and a
lot of knowledge would immediately be lost.
Many people seem to know some mods personally. I have spend a lot of time on
that site and couldn't even name one moderator by name/handle.
Quite ironic that a site with a wealth of knowledge has problems with
monetization. Some things in the internet economy seem to be quite off.
~~~
dandare
> necessity to stay on topic
Try a little exercise: ask a computer literate person not familiar with SE to
find out what questions are on-topic on
[https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/](https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/)
~~~
aloisdg
Ask about...
software development methods and practices
requirements, architecture, and design
quality assurance and testing
configuration, build, and release management
Not all questions work well in our format. Avoid questions that are primarily
opinion-based, or that are likely to generate discussion rather than answers.
Questions that need improvement may be closed until someone fixes them.
Don't ask about...
explaining, writing or debugging code
support for tools or products
finding or recommending products or services, including tools, libraries or packages, programming languages, books, scholarly papers, tutorials, articles, or blogs
career or education advice
legal advice or aid
from the faq/tour:
[https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/tour](https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/tour)
------
csande17
This resignation notice from a moderator on the Christianity Stack Exchange
appears to provide the most detail about what's going on:
[https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...](https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/brothers-
i-must-go)
~~~
9HZZRfNlpR
The whole pronoun drama that is inherently American is tearing down
international communities left and right despite it not being even an issue.
~~~
chipotle_coyote
If it really wasn't even an issue, this wouldn't be coming up as often as it
does, though, would it? To me, "if someone tells you they prefer singular
'they', use that" is non-controversial, just like "if someone tells you they
go by 'Goldie,' use that" should be. Insisting "No, I am going to call you by
the pronouns I believe are 'correct' for you" is akin to "No, your legal name
is 'Marigold,' and I am going to call you 'Mary.'" Insisting that you will
not, under any circumstances, call a person what they've requested you call
them is -- to me -- pretty clearly being a discourteous jerk.
There are a lot of valid complaints about the way Stack Overflow moderates in
general, but I don't get the impression that this particular squabble is over
moderation practices -- it seems to be about upcoming changes to SO's Code of
Conduct. I don't know what those changes are, so I'll reserve judgement. I am
certainly hoping that it doesn't boil down to "I cannot abide being required
to refer to transgender women with 'her' and 'she'," though.
~~~
lonelappde
It's StackEexchange. Pronouns don't matter. I've never seen a reason for this
person pronouns to be used. No one's generalist are topic of conversation, and
it's not a a gossip forum, so there is no reason to use third person pronouns
to refer to users at all!
If this is true, it's damning:
> Now if I avoid pronouns altogether by sticking to proper names or
> disengaging from the individual, that's being considered an insult too.
The complaints seem to be about some proposed new rule requiring users to
explicitly write other users' pronouns, for no other reason than as a
_performative_ display of respect. This is quite different from a rule that
says "If a user states that they prefer pronoun X, don't use other pronouns."
~~~
damnyou
Moderators, as community leaders, need to go out of their way to signal
inclusion for trans people. If they are unwilling to they should resign or be
fired.
~~~
charwalker
I think that connects with events like Princess Diana touching a patient with
AIDS, Mr. Rogers inviting a black man to share the pool with him, etc. It's a
top down change the role models (in this case moderators) can implement to
improve equality and show humans as humans which in my experience goes a long
way toward shutting down any *phobic type mentalities. It's never an easy or
quick change but it's important.
~~~
mdomans
You can't force or even ask someone to be a role model because than that's not
being a role model. Much like telling someone to volunteer makes them "not a
volunteer".
------
Jun8
My understanding is that the train of events that resulted in mod Monica
Cellio’s demodding from SE started with a gender-related complaint tweet
([https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-
ta...](https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-
talk-13bf3f90204f)). Companies are now _very_ sensitive to this pattern, esp.
true for SE due to the ongoing changes there.
~~~
lonelappde
That Twitter kerfuffle was in 2018. Has there been ongoing train of events
since then?
Monica mentions "this rule mandates specific, positive actions." but not what
the rule is, which I find disquieting. What is the rule, and if it's so bad,
and also public (it's a new rule everyone has to know, right?), why is being
kept secret?
~~~
Summoner
There's been a steady breakdown of trust and goodwill between SO Employee's
and moderators/power users over the last year. Part of why this blew up so
fast is probably that there's no good will left between the two groups
anymore; and people immediately assumed the worst and reacted in anger.
This is a decent (long) summary of what's been happening.
[https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/331513/lets-
take-a-...](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/331513/lets-take-a-look-
at-the-interaction-between-staff-and-the-power-users-of-the)
------
scarejunba
Every one of these community groups inevitably has some sort of internal
political strife of some sort. I've never found any meaning in attempting to
engage their politics in any more than the most basic sense.
The groups always exaggerate the impact of actions upon the rest of us when
it's usually a no-op as far as we're concerned.
E.g. Reddit iama had this massive controversy around a Reddit facilitator
being fired and everyone predicted insta failure or whatever. Lots of time
passed and the product is still pretty damned successful (Bill Gates was on it
within the last year). I'm sure Wikipedia has had "I'm stepping down" posts
and whatnot.
Perhaps the learning is that it isn't a worthwhile way to seek meaning in your
life to give away volunteer hours moderating sites unless they're your own or
you're paid for it. It is a pointless place to put your self-worth because
disagreements will occur and they will be enforced as the site owner desires.
Your hours earn you no power.
~~~
hos234
Misguided yet understandable conclusion.
People enjoy doing things for others. It's a deep Need people have. If mass
violence and wars, natural disasters of all kinds through the ages, have not
been able to make us more selfish and wipe out that need, internet drama is
not going to either.
The process is messy sure, and if you are experiencing it for the first time
it can be confusing, repulsive and misleading. It's not a good idea to follow
those feelings and make conclusions. Because those conclusions will obscure
from your view, the reasons why anything good happens in the world.
~~~
mellosouls
If sure you didn't intend it, but your tone "misguided", "if you are
experiencing it for the first time..." is rather condescending.
Bear in mind there are many of us with many years in the online trenches who
have reached the same conclusion - participation is one thing; giving over a
huge part of your time and energy is more questionable.
Also the idea that people do it out of an altruistic need to help may be true
in some cases but neglects the significant motivation of validation, the need
to feel noticed and appreciated through upvotes and other reputation buzzes,
and the following increase in "power" and "status", which isn't so obviously
positive and healthy.
------
goatinaboat
I have always found Monica Cellio to be a great moderator. If she has been
fired then something is deeply wrong over at Stack Exchange.
~~~
mieseratte
First manager I've had, great guy and despite his shortcomings I'd work with
him again. Straightforward honest guy, did he work well, mentored me well.
Then one day he assaulted another coworker in the break room.
Someone's on-the-job performance doesn't mean they are always and forever in
the right. Given the lack of any concrete evidence posted but lots of hand-
wringing and pearl clutching about vague incidences, I think reserving
judgment is the proper course.
~~~
baud147258
A "Director of Public Q&A at Stack Overflow" answered with:
"We aren’t going to share specifics out of respect for all individuals
involved but this is a site reaching millions of people and we have to do what
we believe fosters a spirit of inclusion and respect. When a moderator
violates that, we will always do our best to resolve it with them privately.
When we can’t we must take action."
([https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5197](https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5197))
So it look like we won't have anymore information, at least from the SE side.
The fired mod answered in the comments:
"Inclusion and respect are important, yes! I never said otherwise or did
anything to violate either the current or forthcoming CoC (as best I
understand the latter; y'all _haven 't answered my questions_). Please read
the email I sent in response to my firing. It doesn't have to be this way. "
~~~
lonelappde
I understand SE respecting privacy by not publishing details about the firing.
I don't understand Monica raising a complaint about being fired, giving a lot
of background info, saying he knows why he was fired, but writing in tangles
to avoid stating what he believes triggered the firing. If it's something
about pronouns, or whatever it is, he should say so. Otherwise it's just "I
was fired for something that they think is justified but I won't, but I won't
say what, and I ask your support."
~~~
baud147258
I read that more as "I disagreed and commented on a future CoC change, but I
won't discuss a CoC change that's not been publicly revealed, because it's
beside the point".
~~~
baud147258
Well, I read a post from another ex-moderator[0] and it seems the CoC change
has a part about pronouns, but it doesn't mean that all the changes are about
this and that Monica left because of the changes on pronouns. But that still
doesn't change the fact that "firing" a mod for disagreeing with and
commenting on a future change of a CoC seem wrong, especially since it didn't
look like SE tried to discuss the issue before firing them.
[0][https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...](https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/brothers-
i-must-go)
~~~
baud147258
Last comment and I'll stop updating that thread with new information.
So the disagreement and comments by Monica regarding the CoC was about
pronouns. But Monica had waited before another ex-mod talked about this [0], I
think because she didn't want discussion about this CoC change to distract
from her issue (being "fired" as a mod without discussion).
[0][https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-...](https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-
overflow-inc-sinat-chinam-and-the-goat-for-azazel/5200#5200)
------
Wowfunhappy
I am legitimately curious—and concerned—about the relicensing of answers. It
really seems as though they _shouldn 't_ be able to do that. And if they _can_
, can they also change the license to "all rights reserved by SE"?
~~~
oliwarner
Like GPL, CCBYSA allows you —the licensee— to pick a future version of the
same license. That is, if you receive a copy of work under v3, you can make it
available under v4, no questions asked.
That's all SE has done here. Exercised a clause in the license. If you don't
like that, don't submit content under licenses that allow it.
~~~
Wowfunhappy
I don't think that's true, see:
[https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/4.0_upgrade_guidelines](https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/4.0_upgrade_guidelines)
> Original contributions remain under prior version unless express permission
> to upgrade is obtained.
~~~
oliwarner
Edit: I'm misreading the text[0]. Section 4, clause b:
> You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms
> of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same
> License Elements as this License ...
That only covers adaptations. Ignore me.
[0]: [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-
sa/3.0/legalcode](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode)
------
dimillian
So much politics about that. I go on on SO from Google, find solution to my
problem. Sometime add my own answers. And sometime I post question when I
can't find solution. End of the story. Why the fuck it need to be so
complicated?
~~~
twic
The problem is, of course, the humans.
------
Pfhreak
Reading between the lines, it looks like a queer mod felt unsupported by SE
over a long period of time, and SE eventually decided to make a code of
conduct change. These mods disagreed with that change (some using language
like "thought crime") which precipitated their resignations?
~~~
commandlinefan
> reading between the lines
The lines here are so blurry, I can’t make heads or tails out of any of this.
All I can tell for sure is that some of the mods are upset about something
(but won’t or can’t say what) and they’re leaving SO. The forced abstraction
of this whole saga reminds me of stories I’ve heard from people who lived
under communist dictatorships: they’d have to peel back multiple layers of
insinuations to try to figure out what was actually meant. The way some of the
commenters on here are dancing around saying anything concrete suggests that
there are a few people who do know what’s going on but are afraid to come out
and say what it is.
~~~
csande17
I read through the resignation notices linked from OP, and this one seems to
provide some more detail:
[https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...](https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/brothers-
i-must-go)
~~~
Pfhreak
> If person A comes along and demands that I refer to them by their "preferred
> pronoun" (even if it is a mismatch for their genetic sex or the grammar of
> the language being spoken) and I refuse, that's considered an insult.
Yep, there it is.
~~~
shakna
No, not really.
> Now if I avoid pronouns altogether by sticking to proper names or
> disengaging from the individual, that's being considered an insult too.
It seems like the new CoC requires that not only you don't disparage another's
belief, which is fine and everyone agrees with, but you have to actively show
that you agree with their point of view as well. You can't remain impartial.
------
chance_state
Is there any detail anywhere about why Monica Cellio was fired? Will no one
leak the internal chat that was supposedly the justification for her firing?
All I can see online is everyone vaguely talking around the issue.
Make the facts public and let people decide for themselves.
------
jjakque
Anyone else felt disconcerting about the reoccurring theme of platform
attracts communicated generated content, only to shift interest/motive once
critical mass is achieved?
~~~
marcosdumay
Community starts with good people; creates good content; attracts more people;
that new people tends to average; contents tends to average; new people tends
even more to average; contents quality becomes average; community isn't good
anymore.
The cycle certainly didn't start with groups over a computer network, but I
think it's very unlikely that it started before written texts. So there's ~8k
years window there. It's not literally timeless, but does feel like so.
~~~
Wowfunhappy
GP wasn't talking about the community, but of changes dictated by the
corporation running the website for that community, which is an important
distinction.
------
fabian2k
In most, if not all of the resignations the primary reason for resigning was
the way the firing of one moderator was handled. The internally announced
changes to the policies were not necessarily the reason for the resignations.
The headline is pretty misleading in that regard.
------
sireat
What I am curious why haven't we seen a quality mashup of a SE site? Some sort
of interesting curation/filters etc.
Even the new CC-share-alike allows commercial mixins
[https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-
sa/4.0/](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/) .
So being that SE started with SO and thus heavy programming emphasis there
should be a plethora of interesting mashups.
Instead the only SE content derived sites have been banal copies.
~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Google will kill it like the Wikipedia clones.
------
jmkni
Spotted this on the hot question list, totally out of the loop on the latest
SE drama, can somebody fill me in?
~~~
latk
There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone,
and those who want to curate a helpful resource. People involved with
community moderation aspects tend to fall into the latter group.
For the last half decade or so SE has progressively abandoned this latter
group, leading to a lot of pent-up frustration. Some changes SE has made are
sensible (e.g. striving to be more welcoming and more inclusive), but the
volunteer work of curators has only become more difficult. SE refuses to
implement new tools to aid moderation, so that e.g. spam fighting is mostly
done by volunteer projects.
That only sets the general scene. Since the last year or so SE has stopped
engaging the community on Meta, mostly just announcing changes top-down.
Tweets by third parties have larger impact on SE policy than long-standing
complaints by the community. This has led to a further deterioration of the
relationship. The illegal changes to the content license a month ago are a
perfect example of this top-down, uncooperative approach.
Now the actual drama starts: in a closed moderator chat, there was some kind
of discussion or disagreement. I'm not privy to the details. Not all of this
is nice, e.g. it seems that SE is unwilling to protect trans moderators from
vitriol by other mods. But to everyone's confusion, Monica Cellio was suddenly
removed as a volunteer moderator. She is known as being extremely reasonable,
experienced, and sincere. While she might have tried to discuss sincere
questions, it is beyond belief that she would attack another moderator.
So moderators and other engaged users are deeply frustrated, see a company
that no longer engages with the community, does stupid decisions, and has now
fired one of the best volunteer moderators in a despicable manner. For a lot
of people, this is the straw that broke the camel's back. E.g. one mod I know
decided to resign because they now see themselves completely unable to achieve
any positive change on the site. And if Monica isn't a good-enough mod, how
can they hope to be remotely adequate?
Disclosure: I wrote the linked Meta.SE question. It is my belief that SE the
company and SE the community need to cooperate for both to be successful. Yes,
the community can sometimes be toxic. But the company seems to have given up
completely on engaging with the community, and that does not bode well.
~~~
Dobbs
I really wish more details about this was available.
> it seems that SE is unwilling to protect trans moderators from vitriol by
> other mods.
Reading Monica's post made me pretty sure this was trans related. I'm sad that
I was right.
> [From Monica's Post] unlike the rest of the CoC, this rule mandates
> specific, positive actions.
This is something I've heard many times from anti-trans activists in order to
justify their purposeful, and intentional misgendering and dead-naming of
trans individuals. I'm not saying that is what Monica is advocating, but my
spidey-sense is definitely tingling.
> [From Monica's Post] chastising me for raising issues and saying my values
> were out of alignment.
Again this is something I hear from anti-trans activists. We saw similar
rhetoric from homophobic individuals back in the 90s. That their religion and
values dictated that gay people were bad therefore they couldn't <insert
action here>.
\---
Without knowing more it is hard to say, but even if this isn't about trans
people Monica's arguments aren't inherently right. One person's religious
beliefs don't justify the disregard for others. A very extreme example would
be that many KKK member's religion states that black people are inherently
inferior, and we don't give that belief consideration.
If you know more, please do share, because right now it seems like one sides
arguments are valid, but they can quickly fall apart depending upon the
specifics.
~~~
latk
I understand your scepticism, and was thinking hard about this before I
published the linked post.
Anti-trans and anti-CoC sentiment are certainly part of the issue at hand, but
likely not by Monica. Some of the resignations may be partially motivated by
hate, many of the responses definitely are. However, there are many other
aspects of the firing that are problematic by themselves, regardless of the
reason for the firing.
It doesn't matter what Monica believes, only how she acts and speaks. It is my
understanding (based on hearsay) that at no point in this incident did she
make statements that would be considered transphobic by a reasonable person.
While she was uncomfortable with upcoming CoC changes, she was also asking for
clarification and guidance in good faith. Definitely not in that “I'm just
asking a question!” trolling style. Asking sincere questions would be the sign
of a potential ally, it is illogical to shut those down. However, some of the
relevant correspondence is in personal emails, so we'll never know the truth.
I'm confident that she didn't say or do anything that would violate the
current or upcoming SE CoC, but that the director firing her felt that
Monica's questions were evidence that she would not uphold the upcoming CoC.
This is silly: if a mod feels they are unable to fulfil their position they
can just resign, no need to boot them in advance. I dislike the “thoughtcrime”
meme, but here it might actually fit.
There's also an aspect that I find more troubling, which is the legitimacy of
CoCs. They only protect the community when violations are investigated fairly.
Normally the problem is that the CoC is not enforced enough. Here, a CoC was
enforced without there being a violation, and that gives ammunition to the
idiots who think the sole purpose of a CoC is to silence insufficiently
progressive speech.
Edit 1: the first resignation is in that explicitly lists the CoC as reason
for resignation [1]. The CoC will apparently require that correct pronouns are
used.
Edit 2: the new CoC will allegedly require pronouns, i.e. will not allow the
avoidance of pronouns. As a person who prefers non-standard pronouns, such a
requirement is counterproductive because it requires some people to act
against their conscience, whereas avoiding pronouns still avoids misgendering
and lets everyone save face.
[1]:
[https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...](https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/brothers-
i-must-go)
~~~
compuguy
I'm not perfect, but I understand the need to use the correct pronouns.
Ultimately Stack Exchange needs to make this new CoC public. People should
know the guidelines to post on a site and not unintentionally break rules that
one can't read...
------
hapless
The policy in question appears to be affirmatively requiring moderators not to
(deliberately) mis-gender trans people, or allow user content to do the same.
All these ex-mods wrote these coy essays with discussions of free will and
human rights in order to avoid discussing the issue at hand.
Trans people are surely a more important part of the StackExchange community
and business than a few unpaid volunteers.
I am not sorry that Monica’s feelings were hurt by a demand for basic human
decency.
~~~
yanderekko
>The policy in question appears to be affirmatively requiring moderators not
to (deliberately) mis-gender trans people
This is either incorrect or relies on an unconventionally broad notion of
"misgendering." Normally misgendering is understood to be the act of using
pronouns other than a person's preferred pronouns, the point of controversy is
that now simply avoiding pronouns can be considered an act of misgendering.
This is new territory.
~~~
lilyball
If you very conspicuously avoid using pronouns for someone, it’s pretty
obvious what’s going on and that you’re deliberately avoiding gendering
someone correctly. It’s not as bad as using the wrong pronouns, but it’s still
very disrespectful.
~~~
Wowfunhappy
I think we need to see this policy.
Particularly on a Q&A site, avoiding gendered pronouns altogether strikes me
as the _most_ practical policy. It's what I (try my best to remember to) do on
Hacker News. I don't know what pronouns the GP prefers, and I can't very well
ask them right now, so if I have to refer to them, I'll either say "they" or
"the GP".
~~~
dragonwriter
The specific complaint made by one of the mods is that avoiding pronouns for
or disengaging from a specific person to avoid using is viewed as improper
under the new CoC. That's not the same as avoiding pronouns generally, it's
differential treatment of an individual for not conforming to your preferred
gender expression.
------
perlgeek
Do Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky still a say in how SE is run? If yes, now
would be the perfect time to step in and moderate the discussion.
~~~
mellosouls
In the linked post Jeff Atwood is in the comments moaning about the title.
~~~
aedron
I believe it was also Jeff Atwood who, for the longest time, could not fathom
why people did not like being forced to use OpenID to log into Stack Overflow.
Like, he could literally not fathom it and agonized in blog posts over his own
inability to understand people (he was quite honest about it). Even though
they caved on this point, to this day Stack Overflow actively fights new users
trying to get in and participate on the platform (I have long since given up).
~~~
falsedan
Jeff seems to have a lot of trouble empathising with users, especially when
they want something that clashes with whatever he has discovered is the
'right' solution. See blocklists in discourse, why people join unions, &c.
------
LoneWolf123
Back in the day I used to be among top users on that site - they even sent me
a T-shirt at some time. Left several years ago, as the site became toxic.
I'm not mentioning this "top user" thing on my resume anymore, because not
relevant.
The site is still an excellent source of information about all things that
were cool ten years ago, such as Java, Spring, SQL, Python.
------
Havoc
RIP SE
Reminds me of the company take overs where the key asset is human capital and
they all just walk out the door after the deal. Congrats you bought an empty
building for billions
Don't think SE is ever going to be profitable if they can't keep key figures
happy
------
fffjdtcsebj
> "they think I will in the future violate a thoughtcrime-style provision of a
> Code of Conduct change that hasn't been made yet"
Seems like a code of conduct issue?
------
calibas
Why did this story drop off the front page so quickly when it was one of the
most popular?
Is the flag system being abused?
------
umvi
So why hasn't an alternative to SO emerged where users can come, everyone who
thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, ask and learn!
Come, ask questions and get expert answers without money and without price
~~~
MauranKilom
Isn't that how literally any forum operates? Maybe the SO format has some
merit that made it come out so far ahead of any kind of forum?
------
johnwheeler
The old system, whatever it was, incentivized bad mod behavior and ruined the
experience.
------
MrStonedOne
This is natural selection at work.
Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use.
"Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question"
reopen further explaining the question and how its not related
"Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no
replies"
OR!
Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user
wants to do it that why, convinces them to do it another way, only I don't
have that option, so I open my own question, and its closed as a dupe of the
one from google where the original question was never answered.
or
Post helpful answer that actually answers the users question as asked without
berating them for wanting to do it that way
Get yelled at in the comments for creating noise?
\---
The moral of the story is that stack exchange _needs to die_ so that something
else can come from its ashes that is able to look back at SE as an example of
how not to do shit.
~~~
rusk
Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0]
Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to
get a specific answer for a specific technology.
How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're
asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that _" you
should instead have asked ..."_
I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless
beaureucrats in existence.
[0] [https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/66377/what-is-
the-x...](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/66377/what-is-the-xy-
problem)
~~~
ceejayoz
About 90% of the time it _is_ an XY problem, though. A couple clarifying
questions and it turns out the OP really needed something much simpler.
For example, people who insist they can’t use a Laravel package because of
“performance”, but it turns out they just don’t know how the composer
autoloader works.
~~~
wokwokwok
No... Just answer the question.
You’re not there to babysit the question asker or convince them to change
their approach/hair style/choice of library.
I know it’s frustrating to see people doing something wrong, or that you don’t
agree with, but you know what you can do?
Just... don’t get involved if you can’t answer the _actual question_ that was
asked, and if it’s a bad question, let it die a natural death.
~~~
dirkt
If Y actually has an answer - but often enough Y is so convoluted that it just
won't work.
Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X
should at least be attempted.
If the poster insists on Y, then he'll also have to accept the answer "sorry,
you can't do it that way, for the following reasons".
~~~
wokwokwok
> Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X
> should at least be attempted.
No!
Goodness me, why is this so difficult?
It should _not_ be attempted. That’s an arbitrary expression of _your opinion_
on the poster.
If the question can’t be solved in the way it’s asked let it die gracefully
with a “no you can’t do it that why” and suck up the down votes when someone
comes along and proves yes you actually can.
I know it’s frustrating _for you_ , but asking a question _isn’t about you_.
It’s a glib response to suggest that this is just done when Y is a terrible
question for new users.
It’s also very common when Y is a very good __just very difficult or obscure
__question.
I think it’s quite clear that a common sense approach isn’t working on this
topic.
The solution really is, if you have nothing meaningful on topic to contribute,
then don’t.
There really needs to be a way to make this behaviour on SO punitive somehow,
giving people points for it results in the current situation.
~~~
hombre_fatal
Well, I disagree despite the condescension (which isn't as disarming as you
think, btw).
Qs on a Q&A site become a sort of permanent record that other people stumble
across, not just a wham bam thankya ma'am transaction that only the Q-asker
sees. By revealing XY problems, a better service is provided for everyone who
stumbles upon the Q.
> Goodness me, why is this so difficult?
Because not everyone agrees with you. This faction war has been going on at SE
forever.
~~~
ratww
> Qs on a Q&A site become a sort of permanent record that other people stumble
> across
The fact that it is a permanent record that lives on is another argument in
favor of the "just answer the damn question".
Context changes. Requirements change. Someone in the future might need the
exact answer for some reason, but instead they get some useless back-and-forth
and low-effort condescending answers that is super-specific to that asker.
Asking for more context, adding disclaimers before answering or linking to
alternative solutions in the comments is fine, but it's a pain in the ass when
the answers doesn't match the questions.
------
workthrowaway
that's like, not a "large number" but i digress... just wanted to say that i
empathize with the mod that wrote they just were just tired. mods getting
tired is reason #1 i left a few communities in the past.
it usually means that things aren't looking good. but there is little that
could be done about it. i have not seen it last though. a new wave of people
tend to come along with a fresh view on how to handle things. the meantime,
though, is what's hard to live through. it's what makes people tired and what
makes them move on...
------
legostormtroopr
Its bittersweet to see Stack Overflow continue its downward spiral. Given all
that is happening there, I'd give it about 12 months before they start
implementing a paywall there of some description.
~~~
Insanity
I doubt the paywall idea to be honest. They have other revenue streams like SO
for teams.
------
middleload
It's not clear to me. Were those people paid or volunteers?
~~~
raesene9
mods are volunteers, who provide their time for free to improve the site, I'm
not aware of any mods that are paid.
~~~
ianai
How is that acceptable? People need to be paid for working.
~~~
johannes1234321
Volunteering is a common concept in many communities. We have volunteer fire
fighters, volunteer paramedics, volunteer librarians, volunteer social worker,
volunteer ...
Some of these in fields, and sometimes even in close alignment to payed
people.
In the context of SO there is a community producing Creative Commons (while
there was recently a license change making the company less trustworthy)
contents to help people and some people love helping others and the assumption
is that the value this brings to all is bigger than the value for the company.
Until recently the combination seemed to work. The company runs the platform
to advertise their job boards and enterprise versions of SO and the community
manages the content. But recently changes seem to be frustrating.
For comparison see also Wikipedia volunteers vs. Wikipedia foundation, Mozilla
foundation&corp vs. Contributors, and even people happily submitting pull
requests to Microsoft products on GitHub.
~~~
syshum
Wikipedia and Mozilla were at one time mainly Non-Profits that people
volunteered at for the same reason people volunteer at other non-profits, to
benefit wider society
Both are turning more and more to be more profit-seeking, (Mozilla more than
Wikipedia ) and it is tarnishing their reputations
SE has always been a for-profit business, this makes Volunteering more like
Free Labor and less like "doing something good for humanity".
Generally speaking, I do not believe For-Profit business should be allowed to
seek Volunteers for their labor, this includes SE, Reddit, etc
If a business model can not pay for labor, then it needs to be a Non-profit
Foundation, not a for-profit business
~~~
mieseratte
> SE has always been a for-profit business, this makes Volunteering more like
> Free Labor and less like "doing something good for humanity".
> If a business model can not pay for labor, then it needs to be a Non-profit
> Foundation, not a for-profit business
Considering executive compensation at many non-profits, I don't think non-
profit status alone is a good indicator of anything.
As for SO / SE, I didn't volunteer time and effort in light of their non-
profit status, I volunteered in light of their mission. It was about putting
in some amount of effort to make the world a better place. I couldn't care
less if they made money off of it, just like I don't care if someone takes my
open-source work and manages to make a business of it.
------
mellosouls
There is no detail of the actual argument, just loads of people claiming to be
in the know and indicating toxic behaviour and dramatic battles behind the
scenes.
There's a lot of flouncing resignations and "we need to talk" style essays
also revealing little of substance.
Considering the passion involved some people have clearly been hurt, but
perhaps that's due to the amount of time they have invested in somebody else's
commercial enterprise ("our community") while believing it's something more.
Perhaps what they are trying to say is the "something more" (presumably the
voluntary contributions) is being undermined by paid staff. It's not clear.
At the moment it all reads a bit like a tin pot Game of Thrones though.
~~~
mieseratte
> There's a lot of flouncing resignations and "we need to talk" style essays
> also revealing little of substance.
I feel similarly, I've read all of Monica Cellio's posts and still have no
real idea what is going on. Lot's of talk of DMs and messages and emails, but
nothing concrete posted, just he said / she said, all while alleging personal
innocence and purity.
If there is some concrete evidence and examples, put up or shut up. This is
the internet, your word isn't worth much.
~~~
Dayshine
Well, they were internally discussing a proposed Code of Conduct. I imagine
mods are bound by an NDA, and management are choosing not to share.
~~~
wendyshu
Ah. Very frustrating to read complaints that omit key info. Would have been
nice if they explained that they're under an NDA.
~~~
SnarkAsh
I agree it should have been clarified, but the initial intended audience was
meta users who would be familiar. Elected moderators need to accept the
[https://stackoverflow.com/legal/moderator-
agreement](https://stackoverflow.com/legal/moderator-agreement) agreement
before they're giving their privileges, and they have to agree not to disclose
any information that they get obtain using their mod access, such as the
private discussions between moderators and staff here.
It might not be legally binding, but Stack Overflow could plausibly delete
their account as punishment.
------
quantguy11959
I got downvoted to oblivion for reporting a bug to them, with several SO devs
trying to explain it’s not a bug, this doesn’t surprise me.
------
rurban
Without studying it thoroughly I would comment: Great, finally! Moderator
abuse was the biggest problem on SO, without any oversight.
------
nfogort
Yay, maybe interesting questions/discussion won’t be shut down now!
~~~
Avamander
I have the feeling the people who fought back at the annoying closing and
overly strict rules got pushed out, not vice versa.
------
wendyshu
What's the best alternative to Stack Overflow?
~~~
danesparza
Well ... Google?
_shrugs_
~~~
commandlinefan
Nearly every google search I’ve done for the past decade pulls up SO first.
------
cannabis_sam
The whole concept is pretty asinine:
”Collect points to gain the power to fuck with other peoples questions!”
------
chrshawkes
I personally decided to boycott the site for several reasons explained here.
In short, the site allows dicks to run rampant and I find more answers on
GitHub these days.
[http://bit.ly/2mfUvCs](http://bit.ly/2mfUvCs)
------
_Codemonkeyism
Stack Exchange has developed the same group of power people that rule
Wikipedia. They have arcane rules with the major effect of keeping people out.
Stack Exchange is good to read, but hard to ask a question that is not
immediately due to some rule.
------
ykevinator
The moderators don't add value.
~~~
mellosouls
I think this is untrue. Some do, some less so.
Certainly there is a toxic tendency for _some_ mods to become power crazed,
assume a higher understanding of the world than the lowly non-mods and mod
everything into oblivion.
There is also sometimes a tribal back-slapping tendency that doesn't always
weed out this nonsense but encourages it.
I don't know if that is involved in this case.
~~~
SnarkAsh
There are a lot of very toxic moderators on the network.
As far as I recognize, none of them are among the resigned. They'll probably
be more prominent now that reasonable kind people like Monica have been
removed.
------
thrownaway954
In order for a community to succeed, there must be a continual rotation of the
people in power so that no one can be corrupted by it. Moderators to me are
the same as a dictatorship. There shouldn't be any moderators on SE, the
community should be voting on what is valid question and upvoting the best
answers as it has always done. There is no need for a single person to police
each community. If something is off topic then the community can vote on
removing or moving the topic or answer.
The issue with SE is the fact that they have allowed moderators to have too
much power and too control over the communities. In changing their policies it
has caused a removal of the moderators so that communities are force to come
together to survive then I feel that this was a good step for SE as a whole.
Though there will be some hard times at first I think that SE will become the
site that it founders actually envisioned.
~~~
baud147258
I think the issue is not just moderator vs rest of the community, but also SE
company (well, its employees) vs the moderator vs the rest of the community,
with all groups having different purposes and goal (and even the moderators
and community have more sub-groups, around openness, quality, governance and
so on). It's not just the case of mods having too much power.
~~~
baud147258
And one could even add more fault lines, between SO's community and mods and
the rest of the sites of SE, since the rest of the sites don't have the same
issues as SO, for example regarding discrimination, inclusivness,
welcoming..., but rules are made and applied by the SE company on all the
sites, creating even more issues.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
APIs – a beginners’ guide - benhowdle89
http://benhowdle.im/2013/01/24/apis/
======
tikhonj
This seems to jump into web-based APIs without mentioning it. An API _does
not_ have to be web based: it could be a set of classes, or methods, or
modules or functions to be used from a language directly.
Web services, of course, tend to have web-based APIs. But that's a subset of
_all_ APIs.
Since this article seems aimed at beginners, I think it's an important
distinction to note. You would not want beginners to think that APIs are
_always_ web-based because then they'll be confused by things like WebGL,
which is also an API but _does not_ involve web requests or AJAX.
~~~
blowski
From my experience of explaining APIs, most people don't understand the
distinction between the web and software, let alone the difference between a
web-based API and a software one. If a user knew what WebGL actually is, I
would guess that they already know what an API is.
------
RTigger
As I noted in the article's comments, I'm pretty sure you can't just add
"dataType:jsonp" and have it automagically bypass all the cross-domain
security restrictions.
What actually happens is jQuery appends something like
"callback=some_random_function" to the end of the querystring when it makes
the request, and then the server is supposed to return you the standard data,
wrapped in a function definition with the same name. jQuery then automatically
executes the function, making the json data available.
Some servers require a specific function name, which can be specified as an
ajax option using "jsonpCallback: functionName". All this effectively does is
uses a specific function name instead of a randomly generated one, so that it
matches up with the function returned from the server in the response.
------
edparry
Thanks for this -- I think I'm your target audience here. CS student, entirely
aware _of_ APIs, but not a clue how to interact with them. Yet I now have
tweets flying left, right and center. So thanks!
~~~
benhowdle89
Awesome, glad you liked it!
------
seivan
For restful HTTP...
I like to keep my API strict resources, and nest them if necessary. Also avoid
using more than 4-5 verbs per resource.
<https://github.com/seivan/DocumentationExample>
POST, PUT, GET (member), GET (collection) and DELETE on a resource and nothing
more. If a resource needs different kinds of colletions (say a filter) I'd use
query parameters.
This makes working with API's as a consumer so much easier, especially as a
iOS developer. :-)
Very Rails like, I know. I tend only to use the resources and/or resource
method keywords. No custom matches and etc. Not for the API anyways. Just my
two cents.
------
jwillgoesfast
I feel like this is missing something, perhaps a working demo.
I'm experienced in php and jquery but after 2 days of fiddling and stack
overflowing, i could not get my demo api to POST...any helpful links are
appreciated.
I was especially confused with php/cURL. .ajax seemed a bit more
straightforward but jquery/javascript is so dang hard to debug. for cURL do
you have to have any (non-default) settings installed on your servers?
------
grannyg00se
>So, $.ajax in JavaScript (jQuery) and cURL in PHP. That’s it.
This is a bit confusing. "That's it" makes it sound as though this is the
complete scope of what people mean when they say API. Somewhere it should be
made clear that we are talking about one API of a particular type.
After reading the post someone could come away with the idea that if you don't
have .ajax and jQuery or cURL and PHP then you aren't using an API.
~~~
benhowdle89
I hoped this line "From personal experience, I’ve used APIs heavily with only
two languages; JavaScript and PHP." would convey that I'm only going to be
talking about these two...
~~~
grannyg00se
But ajax and cURL aren't the entirety of dealing with APIs in Javascript and
PHP either.
------
borplk
It's "a beginner's guide" that starts with an explanation of what an API is
and then jumps straight into PHP code with cURL!
When someone just learnt what an API is and doesn't have a clear idea of what
it is or how it works an example code doesn't help at all.
When I'm asked to explain what APIs are these are the things I mention,
\- an API is a fancy name for 'a way to talk to an external service'
\- when you need to do something with an external service like Twitter you
have to use their API to communicate with them
\- an API is like a 'contract for communication' which specifies how to talk
to the external party
\- Most web APIs use the HTTP protocol as a way of communication to send
messages back and forth and they also have a method of representing data, for
example JSON or XML, that's just the same thing but a different way, using
JSON or XML is like saying the same thing in English or Spanish, using the
HTTP protocol or something else is like writing down a sentence vs shouting it
out.
\- When you use Twitter's API to unfollow someone, you don't know how exactly
the unfollow happens, you don't have to know, all you know and have agreed
with Twitter is that you ask Twitter to unfollow someone and they will do it,
so in a way, using the API you are just sending them a 'signal' to do
something. They can go ahead and change the inner workings of that API and as
long as the part that is exposed to you remains the same you don't care
because as far as you are concerned it does the same thing even though it may
be doing it in a very different way
Here's a trivial example of a real-world API,
Imagine you run a restaurant and you need to buy fresh supplies to cook your
delicious dishes every day.
You hire someone and teach them to buy the supplies as you order. You trust
them to buy good quality stuff and deliver them to you.
You agree to give them order instructions via SMS. And you agree on the
following format:
BUY
15 Salmon Fish
20 Avocados
DELIVER BEFORE 30 January 2013 14:00
END
Now the person you have hired can use your 'Order API' to work with you. You
send them a message in a format that you have agreed upon and using a medium
that you have agreed (SMS).
Hope that helps some beginner who is struggling with all the fancy terms being
thrown around without explaining the principals and the simple details that
everyone takes for granted once they have passed the initial learning phase.
------
Tekker
I think the term SDK should be in there - it goes hand-in-hand with API in
terms of "traditional" development that's not web-based. I understand he
didn't go there because he doesn't do that himself, but jes' sayin'.
------
currysausage
+1 for Focus Mode.
~~~
benhowdle89
+1 for this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Half-duplex wireless communication with a couple of LEDs and PJON - gioscarab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIncPe8OPpg
======
gioscarab
What do you think about it? I believe this is a huge technology enabler :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple: Samsung's iPhone 5 demand is harassment - bakbak
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/hardware/Apple-Samsungs-iPhone-5-demand-is-harassment/articleshow/8862765.cms
======
nextparadigms
They should've thought of that before they asked the same thing from Samsung.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dangerous Pickles – Malicious Data Serialization in Python - foob
https://intoli.com/blog/dangerous-pickles/
======
calebm
It's quite simple: they are executable code.
------
philsnow
pickle is neat, but so is eval.
~~~
Doxin
And both are easily avoided with a little work.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Are there any five nines hosted database services? - aaronrc
There are a few hosted database services around but the ones I've looked at cater for web apps. My app is a VoIP/telecoms one and I need a five nines SLA, are there any that meet that?
======
kochbeck
Er, yes, but I'm not sure if this will be a satisfying answer:
If you contact IBM Global Services, they have a group that can put together a
hosted database proposal with very stringent uptime guarantees. Most likely
they'll push for you to be hosted on z10 (mainframe) architectures and DB2.
They can run it across a multi-site SYSPLEX in multiple tightly controlled
data centers. They've got a handful of customers who have been continuously up
since at least the late 1980s in a config like this.
This topic came up at OpsU in SF a couple weeks ago. I think the consensus
from all was that looking for "five-9s" is a very bad proxy for asking the
question, "What is the cost-benefit of downtime mitigation strategies?" I've
worked on systems that required (either because of regulation or health and
safety) appreciably 100% uptime. The cost for near-perfect uptime almost never
balances against the cost of downtime including lost revenue, lost customer
confidence and the like.
Now, one of those applications did happen to be a telecom application (a
switch), and there was, before deregulation, a universally accepted
requirement that billing records must continuously capture 99.999% of the
time. No clue if that still exists, but if that's you, there are about a
kajillion preexisting solutions to this problem, and many of them are hosted.
The Magic 8-Ball says: Concentrate harder and ask again. :-)
------
brk
Better question is: Is there any hosted _anything_ that actually _delivers_
five 9's?
Most SLAs are crap. Yay, you get a credit of $50 for our 8 hours of downtime.
If you're building a mission critical service based on Some 3rd party SLA,
you're in for a world of hurt.
~~~
aaronrc
For application layer servers the 5 9's redundancy can be achieved by
deploying multiple servers. Deploying a multiple server redundant database is
a difficult problem which distracts from the main application. Hence the
desire for a hosted option.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Adventures in typography - yurn
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2015/08/03/the-font-of-poetry-the-poetry-of-font/
======
beerbajay
Ugh, basic factual errors... The elements of typographic style first came out
in 1992, not 2004.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Want Some Facebook Stock At A $3 Billion Valuation? We Know Who To Call. - rms
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/28/want-some-facebook-stock-at-a-3-billion-valutation-we-know-who-to-call/
======
rms
I'd buy at a $3B valuation...
Facebook is reasonably valued at $5B-$7.5B, right? And by reasonably I mean as
a strategic acquisition.
~~~
aneesh
Nobody really knows what a reasonable valuation for facebook is. They've yet
to turn a profit, and it remains to be seen how well they can monetize all
those users. Plus, value is in the eyes of the investor: it was worth over $15
billion to Microsoft, but not even $3 billion to whoever is selling.
I say it's all just speculation right now, since their shares aren't very
liquid. And even if their shares were liquid, on what basis would you value
them?
~~~
rms
In the next two years of Facebook, they could only be acquired as a strategic
investment, valued at $5-7B if a large player like Google/Microsoft/Yahoo
tries to buy them. Maybe a sovereign wealth fund? Unless those funds stay away
from Web 2.0.
Beyond that, yes, they'll have to show revenue. Facebook will be a good test
of the ultimate stability of the Web 2.0 Bubble. I think their best strategy
is to go into the mortgage market, but the consensus of this board seems to be
that Facebook won't succeed in the mortgage market.
~~~
ctkrohn
I highly doubt a sovereign wealth fund would invest in Facebook. Most of their
recent equity investments have been in dividend-paying stocks of US banks;
they also tend to buy a lot of fixed income assets. Facebook won't be able to
pay dividends any time soon, and while I recall them doing a debt offering, I
can't imagine it's on the scale that would appeal to an SWF.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: ortFolio, a minimal website template for image-based portfolios - oseph
https://gitlab.com/oseph/ortfolio
======
spectramax
Love the theme, but I despise unnecessary animations (such as the weird dance
of images loading).
Whenever I think of assessing or creating a design is to repeatedly ask "why?"
until the product or service is boiled down to its essence - minimum required
"design" to make it functional. Then, the immediate priority should be to make
such a design accessible - sufficient contrast, color palette, font size,
column width, etc. Aesthetics that emerge from this kind of bottom up approach
always in my view trumps superficial top-down design where a designer has some
kind of a personal subjective vision of their aesthetics which is then used as
a mold to engage in the design process - the latter usually results in a poor
overall product or service. This is just a general pet-peeve of mine, not
inclined to your work. :)
~~~
oseph
Thanks! And I completely hear you and totally agree re: unnecessary
animations.
In this case, I used the Masronry.js library for the thumbnail grid, and the
unnecessary animation you speak of is mostly the result of that. Basically, it
reloads the grid after every thumbnail image is loaded, and the reason I stuck
with it was to eliminate the visual lag of having no thumbnail grid at all
while all of the images are loading up – but perhaps it should be the other
way around?
This can easily be disabled in the template via the initGrid.js file. Perhaps
I should document that option more thoroughly. :)
Thanks again for your feedback!
__Edit __: I 've since updated the site to load the grid up after all images
are loaded, eliminating the dancing animation.
------
gen3
I really like the way this looks! There is a lot of movement when the page
first loads, but the template has everything a portfolio needs (Descriptions,
galleries, links off, realizable, etc)
Nice job
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Prophet of Envy - apollinaire
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/12/20/rene-girard-prophet-envy/
======
it
If I only want what others seem to want, then where did all the wanting begin?
~~~
photojosh
Girard addresses this in the chapter in 'Things Hidden' on "Hominization", ie
how we transitioned from just another ape into humans. The time we spent as
helpless infants increased as we evolved, and so the requirement to closely
imitate our mother, family, society, became essential to survival.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why Netflix still using AWS when Amazon is their biggest competitor? - horizontech-dev
I have been wondering about this question for some time. To give context, I get it, the engineers and management at Netflix continuously evaluating (and it's not an easy task), but what's something holding them moving off of AWS like Dropbox?<p>Aren't they literally giving money to their competitor?
======
0xy
A lot of Netflix's technical "secret sauce" is their own infrastructure via
the Open Connect initiative.
You cannot get a silky smooth experience across that many congested networks
with just bare AWS.
Why would Netflix want to take on the enormous risks of self-hosting? They
don't have the experience and they don't have the skills. They can hire the
appropriate people but it's extremely expensive. AWS provides a lot of very
valuable tooling and expertise baked into the service price.
------
treyfitty
No one will know, and those that do will never reveal it. But I can surmise
that it's a mutually net beneficial arrangement in the short-run, with Netflix
expecting a better solution to present itself either internally or externally
at some point. Otherwise, you're right, Netflix wouldn't use AWS and AWS would
not supply to Netflix.
In a way, they're allocating money and resources to Amazon rather than
developing internally simply because the long-term ROI doesn't warrant it.
And let's not discount the most obvious reason why it's probably not even a
concern for Netflix: Amazon Prime Video sucks. Sure, Blockbuster probably said
the same thing about Netflix at one point, but it's hindsight. I think most
people, at the time, would have never guessed Netflix would be the one to
pivot to online streaming either.
It's a very though provoking question and there's no way to distill it into
one answer, so I'm just providing my POV.
~~~
horizontech-dev
> rather than developing internally simply because the long-term ROI doesn't
> warrant it
To clarify, I am not expecting them to build their own cloud, but why they
using it when other providers have caught up pretty much.
------
the_hoser
You're really looking at this from the wrong direction. Your competitor
doesn't need to fail in order for your own business to succeed. It isn't a
zero-sum game.
It wouldn't surprise me if Netflix had that meeting at some point. What would
it cost them to run their own infrastructure? Would that be less than the cost
of staying with AWS? Is Amazon exploiting their position as Netflix's hosting
provider to unfairly compete with them? Do they fear that they might in the
future?
At the end of the day, the answer was very likely a solid "no". Many
industries are full of examples of competitors working together to the benefit
of both companies. Just look at the aerospace industry.
~~~
horizontech-dev
Thanks for the response. But totally disagree.
> Would that be less than the cost of staying with AWS? I think the answer is
> Yes. The main advantage of Cloud computing I think is the speed to market,
> not the cost. Excerpt from [https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/21/three-years-
> after-moving-o...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/21/three-years-after-
> moving-off-aws-dropbox-infrastructure-continues-to-evolve/) "Dropbox still
> believes it made the right decision and has found innovative ways to keep
> costs down"
> Is Amazon exploiting their position as Netflix's hosting provider to
> unfairly compete with them? I completely disagree. Here is one example
> (Certainly, a simple G search should give enough examples)
> [https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-
> its...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its-own-
> sellers-to-launch-competing-products-11587650015)
~~~
bengunnink
The answer to your question is "Because it makes business sense to do so".
Whether you can understand their reasons or not, the best indicator that
Netflix has good reasons to use AWS is that it continues to do so. And that
will be true until the (possible) day that it doesn't anymore.
> I think the answer is Yes.
So what you're saying is that (1) Netflix is already secretly planning to move
away from AWS, in which case your question is moot, or (2) everyone involved
in platform decisions at Netflix is an idiot that can't do math.
------
tobyhede
I would expect Netflix to have reasonably detailed strategic analysis and
projections of all of the available options - moving to Google, moving to
Azure, moving to Oracle, moving to multi-cloud, colocation, not to mention
things we can't even imagine because ... well, we have no real idea.
At different points any one of these may make strategic sense, but as others
have highlighted here such moves would consume resources that could be
allocated to other areas.
My take would be that increasingly the Netflix business model is really
content and production. Disney is the real competitor here. Technology is
necessary, but not sufficient.
~~~
horizontech-dev
> I would expect Netflix to have reasonably detailed strategic analysis and
> projections of all of the available options - moving to Google, moving to
> Azure, moving to Oracle, moving to multi-cloud, colocation, not to mention
> things we can't even imagine because ... well, we have no real idea.
I think the same too. Curious to confirm the thought process and curious to
hear if there any anecdotes
------
tobyhede
Also ... Dropbox is a good example of a product that has lost it's way. It
went from a very simple and clear product with strong value to something we
all now work around. Its more reliable to email or slack files than deal with
whatever confusing thing Dropbox is doing.
~~~
horizontech-dev
And you think that's because they moved off of AWS?
~~~
tobyhede
I am observing that there is no correlation between location of hosting and
quality or user experience. OP used DropBox as a reference for a company that
moved off AWS. My observation is that DropBox sucks.
------
some_furry
Amazon Web Services (AWS) and Amazon Prime, while part of the same company,
are vastly different services.
While it's fair to call them competitors, it's not really an apples-to-apples
comparison.
~~~
surround
AWS and Amazon e-commerce are vastly different services, yet Walmart refuses
to use AWS because Amazon is also their largest competitor. In fact, Walmart
built themselves an entire private cloud to avoid using AWS.
So OP actually raises a very good question: why does Netflix use AWS when
Walmart does not?
~~~
JMTQp8lwXL
The decision to build a private cloud sets back other priorities, like
competing with Amazon on Grocery. It may, or may not, pay off for Walmart. If
Walmart did store their data in Amazon's cloud, it is possible Amazon could
use that information (sales, prices, etc) to more efficiently compete.
Conversely, if Netflix built out their own cloud, it could have come at the
expense of delivering more content, which could risk unseat their position as
the leader of streaming space.
~~~
horizontech-dev
Great points. I understand that it comes with an expense, but "I think" in the
long run it would benefit them.
> Conversely, if Netflix built out their own cloud Well, they don't have to
> build their own cloud. They can use other cloud providers still.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Would you respond to requests like “I have an app idea” - chamoda
How would you respond to not technical people (could be friends, family, co-workers) proposing "I have an app idea, let's share 50/50"<p>Assume I'm supposed to do all the development work. They are not ready to do any kind of investment.<p>How would you respond politely in a situation like this?
======
smt88
It's easy to think of their "offer" as, "You do work for me for free, and
maybe we'll make money."
It's more charitable to think of it as, "You invest some time into this, and I
guarantee that both of us will make money."
They think that including you is giving you something, because you wouldn't
have had the idea on your own.
You can respond politely in many ways:
\- "Sorry, my financial situation doesn't give me the freedom to do unpaid
work right now."
\- "Here's an app I found that already does what you're talking about. What
would you improve about it?" (It's often the case that the idea itself is
unoriginal, and finding that out will kill their enthusiasm.)
\- "Most engineers at my level are given salary and equity. If you can raise
some seed money, I'd be happy to talk about being a founding engineer."
\- "I like to consider every idea people present to me, but in my industry, we
never write the first line of code until customers are lined up. Do you think
you could get the first 10 customers/users in the next month?" (This will also
shut people down because they don't actually want to start a business -- they
want a get-rich-quick scheme with no investment on their part.)
~~~
davismwfl
I usually show them an app that does most of if not all of what they are
describing. Or will say I am just too focused on what I have going now to add
another thing to the list.
I have also used the same basic idea of "I don't have enough time right now,
but if you have customers lined up already or can get them and show me that a
real business opportunity exists I am happy to look more into it."
Generally, I try to be polite about it overall and I don't dismiss people or
their ideas outright, I listen politely and then judge based on merits
(exception would be drunk cousin Eddie who won't remember in the morning so I
just walk away).
------
latexr
> How would you respond politely in a situation like this?
“No, thank you.”
Ideas are worthless without execution. It’s unfair to ask for 50% ownership of
a result where your contribution was a few sentences to describe the _initial_
idea[1].
> They are not ready to do any kind of investment.
Investment doesn’t have to be monetary. It can also be design or marketing
work, or even knowing the right people to give it traction. Assuming they
won’t do _any_ of those, it’s an easy “no”.
I’d bet money the idea isn’t even good/profitable[2], because people who think
an idea is worth 50% tend to not have any clue of the amount of work it takes
to bring it to life, and that just making it is not enough. I’ve had people
who refuse to spend money on apps come to me with ideas for apps to make
money. My answer was to confront them with that fact: they have zero
understanding of what makes a person spend money on an app.
[1]: It’s common that to find success an idea has to suffer several
iterations, ending up a different beast.
[2]: Maybe I’d be wrong this time, but odds are on my side.
------
muzani
I just tell them my usual rates to build their idea. Tell them I have a no
equity policy unless they can prove their commitment or pay their pound of
flesh. I actually got a great partnership with my current client this way.
I once tried to scare off the person by highballing on equity. Didn't work as
he agreed to the deal.
------
mtmail
I've used this comic once
[https://dilbert.com/strip/2015-09-11](https://dilbert.com/strip/2015-09-11)
But seriously I asked questions on market research, mockups, customer
interviews, potential investors because maybe the friend already spent a lot
of time on it. In this case no, it was really just an idea, or rather copycat
of a service that already existed in another language.
------
cheeky78
so..their part is to just give ideas? Just tell them that you will only
partner with someone willing to invest X amount of money in the idea/product.
In my younger years, I actually partnered with a few friends that told me
this. Both times ended in disaster.
The main problem is that when someone has no skin in the game, you can work
for a few months on the development side of an idea and they get bored and
either aren't interested in the idea when you are finished (which happened the
first time for me) or the person thinks that being a business owner means that
they get to dictate ideas and you complete them..and try to become your
manager/boss (happened the second time).
Ideas are the easiest part. I have tons of good ideas. If someone either can't
provide the cash or the work involved in implementing these ideas, they
shouldn't be part of the business.
Sean Parker is a good exception to this. He's the richest 'idea guy' I've
heard of.
------
tomjen3
If you care about the future relationship then say either "I don't really have
time" or "that is not a good fit for me right now".
If you don't, say "sorry, that would amount to me working for essentially no
pay, which I am not willing to do".
Neither of those cases are lying btw. If you had infinite time, you wouldn't
mind taking a crack at their idea.
------
RaceWon
Simply say you have your own ideas that you're working on... which I'm
guessing is more or less true, and you simply have no spare time. You might
point them towards an commercial app dev shop, probably a big favor to them as
they'd have to do their own leg work and learn a bit about the economics
involved.
------
enz
I say: "Sorry, I am just an engineer, not a VC :)" (with a smile)
------
quickthrower2
Polite answer: I have a lot of commitments at this time and couldn’t invest
the time required to make this project succeed.
------
ioddly
I just tell them I'm too busy with work...which is eventually true.
------
Cannibusted
Not 'response'. The word is 'respond'.
------
wolco
Tell them they don't have $100,000 to market it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why is APC So Lame? - gherlein
http://blog.herlein.com/2010/10/why-is-apc-so-lame/
======
arethuza
I've had a lot of respect for the build quality of APC power supplies since an
incident where I almost had a fairly large one dropped on me.
------
synx508
I have never had a good experience with APC UPSs, my favourite anti-feature is
the self-test that ends with power to the load being interrupted. The "shuts
off instantly when cable connected" anti-feature bit a colleague of mine
recently.
~~~
Corrado
We installed a large, rack mounted unit to power our servers but for some
reason they were going down, usually after hours. It took us 2 weeks to figure
out that the UPS was the reason the machines were rebooting randomly. I never
in my wildest dreams would think that the UPS would be the cause; they are
supposed to prevent things like this!
Apparently the APC model that we had installed wasn't live failover (or
whatever) and when the batteries went "bad" it just killed the power to
everything. And thanks to the weird "serial" cables and non-Linux friendliness
of APC we never got the monitoring working correctly so we weren't warned
about it ahead of time.
Instead of purchasing new batteries for the APC we got a TrippLite unit
installed with no problems. It has a standard USB cable and the software works
great with Linux & Windows. I even got a used TrippLite unit off of eBay for
my office and they sent me rack mounting hardware for free! I love TrippLite
and will never again even pause to think about APC.
tl;dr APC screwed us so we switched to TrippLite and have had no problems.
~~~
lutorm
I've had maybe 8 APC units and one did develop the problem you just mentioned
of cutting out when the battery was dead even though the power was still on.
However, I've never had one catch fire while on battery power unlike the first
and last TrippLite I tried...
------
chmike
I have an APC ups for my two via Ubuntu servers, adsl, switch, etc for two
years now and it works perfectly. I had many problems before because there
where power drops and the via servers behaved abnormally after that. Now
everything is very stable. We had a one hour power cut this summer (very
exceptionnal) and everything worked perfectly. Both servers shutdown
automatically after 30min, though they could hold 1hour (I tested). They
automatically rebooted when the current was back.It has USB plug and looks
like a big fat multiplug connector. It wasn't very expensive. I had one of
another make before and it was sh*.
~~~
linker3000
I'm geting a database error trying to read the article - maybe the server
power has failed?
~~~
wanderr
Ha, I assumed this was going to be an article complaining about Alternative
PHP Cache, not the UPS company, and I was going to make a joke about how
perhaps with caching the servers would have been able to handle the load.
~~~
chopsueyar
Me too, I just installed an nginx / php-fpm server, and thought this was a
relevant and timely article.
The nginx/php-fpm server does have a Cyberpower UPS, so I guess it is kind of
relevant.
~~~
wanderr
Interestingly, we will be doing that soon as well. Care to share your
experiences?
------
wccrawford
I've had about a dozen APCs in my home over the years. I've also had a handful
of other UPSs from other companies. The APCs have always been the most
reliable and lasted the longest.
We also use them for our computers and racks at work. Again, the APCs have
always been the best.
Of course, they're also more expensive... So I guess it's a tradeoff. I'm
particularly leery of unknown brands since one of those started sparking and I
was worried it would kill me or burn the house down. I doubt I'll buy anything
except the best names from now on.
------
zdw
APC is the Cisco/IBM/Microsoft of UPS's - nobody got fired for buying one.
That said, you can get the same quality for cheaper, but UPS's have a network
effect - you don't want to have to install multiple shutdown software versions
that work in different ways on all your equipment.
Also there's a lot of equipment out there (RAID frames, etc) that will only
speak the APC protocol over a DB-9 serial link, unfortunately...
------
tallanvor
I've never had any problems with APC units, and I definitely recommend them
over cheaper brands to others. I remember one incident where a lightning
strike took out half the components in the unit. It couldn't keep the servers
powered for that, but at least none of them were damaged, and the APC itself
was back to work once the damaged components were replaced.
------
smackfu
I am also baffled by the weird serial to USB cable my UPS came with. You're
selling a product that is basically 90% battery and 10% smarts, and they don't
seem to spend any money on the smarts.
------
wnoise
> how can APC, the market leader, be so overwhelmingly lame in this day and
> age?
Precisely because they are the market leader.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Black hole caught snacking on a star - vmyy99
http://www.futurity.org/top-stories/black-hole-caught-snacking-on-a-star/
======
ColinWright
Previous submissions of this story, in case you want to read it from other
sources:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3927666>
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921788>
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921226>
None have comments.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Running MemSQL’s 107 Node Test Infrastructure on CoreOS [video] - carlsverre
http://blog.memsql.com/running-memsqls-107-node-test-infrastructure-on-coreos/
======
AdmiralAsshat
"At a recent CoreOS meetup, I gave a presentation on the design and
implementation of Psyduck, which is the name for MemSQL’s test
infrastructure."
So does the test infrastructure get exponentially more powerful when under
pressure, or what?
~~~
ankrgyl
Interestingly enough, in some ways it does. For example, during our nightly
stress runs the fact that the system is under so much pressure helps induce
race conditions that are otherwise pretty much impossible to reproduce.
------
kbar13
Awesome! I wish I had the opportunity to work with a large scale docker/coreos
deployment like this. I really perked up when you started talking about PXE
booting, I wanted to see what you guys were doing to manage updates.
I'm trying to make automated updates when using PXE[0].
When installed to disk, CoreOS's update manager automatically polls for
updates and downloads them in the background. On next reboot, the new version
is shifted into place. This is unfortunately unavailable when booting with
PXE.
~~~
carlsverre
Working on large server deployments is a blast! And CoreOS makes it even more
fun via its read-only focus.
In our system we don't do automated updates since we don't need that
functionality. In order to send out an update I download the image that I want
to deploy, patch it with CPIO (with my custom initialization code) and then
register it with DNSMasq (put it in a directory). At that point any machine
that reboots will start up with the new image rather than the old one. I
usually test one/two machines and then if they look good a script reboots the
rest.
If you wanted to do automated deployments, you could basically do the same
thing provided you have a server to manage the process. The master server
would simply poll CoreOS for new releases, and then do the same steps as above
to roll out the image. Incremental updates are trivial as well since you are
just rebooting the machines.
One thing to consider is running CoreOS out of memory rather than installing
it to disk. I find this is one of the best features of CoreOS since it makes
it even harder to think of a machine as any more than a temporary computing
resource.
Hope that helps! Good luck!
~~~
kbar13
My thought was to have CoreOS run the systemd cron job for update_engine even
when booting off of PXE, but to proxy[0] through corepxe (the jawn I'm trying
to write). This way I can MITM the request and make the request on behalf of
the host from corepxe, and take advantage of how omaha[1] works by returning
the appropriate status code and downloading in the background.
[0][https://coreos.com/docs/cluster-management/setup/update-
stra...](https://coreos.com/docs/cluster-management/setup/update-
strategies/#updating-behind-a-proxy)
[1][https://code.google.com/p/omaha/](https://code.google.com/p/omaha/)
~~~
carlsverre
That seems reasonable, however I am not super familiar with how update_engine
works. Likely your solution will work provided you setup your image to install
itself to disk and boot from there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Acme Blogs - gerges-beshay
https://acme.center/blogs
======
gerges-beshay
Acme Blogs, the first service of Acme Center. Very minimal MVP for what is
planned to be a feature-rich blogs platform service.
Developed using Firebase (Auth, Functions, Hosting), React, GraphQL, and
MongoDB.
Give it a try, and let me know what you think, and what you would like the
service to provide.
------
DrScump
There's no content and no sign-up mechanism.
~~~
gerges-beshay
If you click on the avatar icon on the top right, you get the option to sign
in using Facebook. Then you can add blogs and articles.
Good point though that I need to make that more clear in the UI somehow.
~~~
DrScump
sign in using Facebook
... which I consider a fatal flaw.
~~~
gerges-beshay
You mean to use wording like "Sign in/up" instead of just "Sign in"?
~~~
DrScump
No, I mean to give Facebook any more page hits or demographic data.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Are we there yet by Rich Hickey - leandot
https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey
======
cpr
Fantastic talk. (Should say 2007 in the title.)
This was in August, with the first announcement of Clojure in October of the
same year, so Rich was just preparing the world for Clojure concepts?
------
hga
This is the famous 2009 JVM Languages Summit keynote.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Germany's Privacy Stance Boosts Berlin's Tech Startups - lelf
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alisoncoleman/2014/01/20/germanys-privacy-stance-boosts-berlins-tech-start-ups/
======
junto
I think there are some small green shoots in Berlin, but I'm not sure whether
it is anything to write home about.
It is true that Germans are more privacy conscious. Yesterday for example, the
Federal Bureau of Information Technology (BSI) launched a tool that allowed
Germans the possibility to see if they are 1 of the 16 million identities
recovered from a botnet analysis project. Although the site went down after it
was featured on the nightly national news, it shows that the German government
is actively encouraging and publicizing privacy and crime related issues
affecting the German public.
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fweb%2Fbsi-
warnt-vor-identitaetsdiebstahl-16-millionen-nutzerkonten-
betroffen-a-944643.html)
Of course it doesn't address the issues of the EU data retention laws and the
access that the BND have to access email whenever they feel like it.
Also, the recent "efforts" of the largest internet service providers in
Germany to encrypt email transport between each other has been seen as more of
a publicity stunt then anything of any real value concerning privacy. Emails
are still unencrypted when stored.
~~~
sentenza
You are aware that Berlin isn't the biggest IT/software cluster in Germany?
There are a lot more companies with a lot more revenue in the Rhein-Main-
Neckar area[1](pdf, image page 3).
It's just that the "sexy, webby" stuff is in Berlin, so it has more
visibility.
[1]
[http://www.softwareclusterbenchmark.eu/images/images/Downloa...](http://www.softwareclusterbenchmark.eu/images/images/Downloads/EU-
Softwarecluster-Benchmark_2013_en.pdf)
------
raverbashing
Let me explain a little bit about the level of privacy in Germany.
In Germany you _don 't_ put the apartment number in a letter. The mailman
matches your name to the name on the mailbox to give you the letter
Even when registering with the government they have what floor number you
live, but not the apartment number.
This is mostly because of the Stasi.
~~~
Argorak
This is not mostly because of the Stasi, which became a hot topic in western
germany after the wall came down.
e.g. in 1981, there was a census planned. It met so much opposition that it
had to be delayed until 1987, especially because of data protection issues
[1].
The main issue is that conflicts with the state have always been common in
Germany, so there is a general distrust towards data collection. Also, privacy
is a regular debate, keeping the whole topic warm. E.g. during the 90s, there
was an attempt to allow acoustic surveillance on a large scale.[2]
BTW: I had to accurately describe where I live. Apartments don't have numbers
in germany, so I live "3rd floor, next to the stairs".
Sorry for the german sources, I couldn't find good english ones.
[1]
[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksz%C3%A4hlung_in_der_Bundes...](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksz%C3%A4hlung_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_1987)
[2]
[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Lauschangriff](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Lauschangriff)
~~~
sentenza
It might be that the gravity of the second sentence in your comment is lost on
the non-Germans here, so let me fill in some more detail: The protests and
controversy regarding the census led to a legal dispute that reached the
constitutional court, from whose ruling a new fundamental right called
"informational self-determination"[1] is derived.
This is unique to Germany.
To understand why this happened, you have to remember that during the 80s,
most Germans had personal experience of organized privacy invasions with
extreme consequences. A "Blockwart"[2] was an NSDAP official _from your
neighborhood_ with the right and duty to sniff out any "ideologically
problematic" behaviour and report it to the Gestapo.
[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determinatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determination) [2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter)
@Argorak: I usually just post a google translate link of the German page.
Better than nothing and so far nobody has complained.
~~~
DanielleMolloy
Just want to emphasize this:
Germany has a __fundamental right on "informational self-determination"__ [1].
From the wiki article:
<< On that occasion, the German Federal Constitutional Court ruled that:
"[...] in the context of modern data processing, the protection of the
individual against unlimited collection, storage, use and disclosure of
his/her personal data is encompassed by the general personal rights of the
[German Constitution]. This basic right warrants in this respect the capacity
of the individual to determine in principle the disclosure and use of his/her
personal data. Limitations to this informational self-determination are
allowed only in case of overriding public interest." >>
This is still quite interesting in several current debates.
[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determinatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determination)
------
chmars
The expectation of a higher level of privacy in Germany and other European
countries is usually based on a common misunderstand:
Privacy does not protect against state surveillance, on the contrary: State
Surveillance is always excluded from privacy laws. All European countries, in
particular Germany, cooperate with the US in surveillance.
And while the data privacy regulation in Europa is without any doubt much
stricter in Europe than in the US, it is also very ineffective since there are
usually no direct sanctions except for political cases like Google's
collection of WLAN data. In addition, most start-up companies rely on American
services providers. The advantage of using American service providers is
simply to great to be ignored, and data privacy is rarely an issue. American
service providers are usually much better at offering superior functionality
at a better price.
~~~
sentenza
NO.
There are differences that have everyday consequences. It is illegal in
Germany to share information gained by intelligence agencies with the regular
police[1]. This is eroding, but we are fighting against it.
State surveillance is specifically regulated in a fundamental right that is
unique to Germany[2]. There are officials trying to ignore this (Autobahn
toll-collection), but we are fighting against it.
Most people here use American service providers, American social networks and
the like. Those who are not uneasy regarding the privacy of the data are quite
the minority. Many people use fake names on facebook that only their friends
know (Yea, doesn't work, but they try!) and are very picky regarding the
information they share. German companies with critical information are
avoiding American services or, for those that were to blind to see what was
coming, moving away from American services. Everybody here knows that US
companies are unavoidable these days, but we are trying do do something
against it.
Germans are extremely suspicious of intelligence agencies and completely
disapprove of data sharing with the US and UK. However, it still happens
because, as a consequence of that war we lost, the Western Allies have access
to our intelligence agencies. This seems to be impossible to change, but we
are fighting against it.
[1]
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTrennungsgebot_zwischen_Nachrichtendiensten_und_Polizei)
[2] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determinatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-
determination)
~~~
andrewfong
It is (was) also illegal for the NSA to share most of the information it
gathered with local law enforcement but that didn't stop it. There are also
people fighting against it in the U.S., but that doesn't mean it isn't
happening.
Also see [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/europe-wont-
save-...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/europe-wont-save-you-why-
e-mail-is-probably-safer-in-the-us/). The argument there is that (a) a mutual
assistance treaty nullifies Germany's protections because it requires
cooperation with U.S. intelligence and (b) German companies are forbidden from
notifying users if data is requested for law enforcement purposes.
------
f_salmon
What exactly IS "Germany's Privacy Stance"? I'm not sure there's any real
consensus on this question. Or have you all already forgotten about this story
here:
[http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-is-a-
both-...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-is-a-both-a-
partner-to-and-a-target-of-nsa-surveillance-a-916029.html)
------
lorenzfx
While there are some houses blurred out (I believe mostly in wealthy
neighbourhoods), Google's Streetview is available in Germany.
~~~
brazzy
When Google was preparing to launch Streetview in Germany, there was a big
media hoo-ha about it and they reacted by givng property owners the
opportunity to have their house blurred; wealth has nothing to do with it,
except that the wealthy are more likely to own the property they live in and
pay attention to stuff like this.
------
themckman
Certainly unrelated to the article, but I've been considering moving from the
US to Germany. As I understand it, Berlin has a pretty thriving tech scene and
I'm targeting it as my destination (Munich has come up, too). Anyone care to
comment on how easy this might be?
~~~
mlent
If you can get the job contract, it's very easy. There are a couple documents
you need (e.g. work contract, local residency registration, flat contract, tax
registration, proof of german health insurance [which is a special letter
written from the health insurance company to the Ausländerbehörde]), but
basically if you have a contract and you're a skilled worker, they'll grant
you residency.
The employer may have to prove, as they did with me, that no one else in the
EU could fill the job as well as you can. So they'd have to put up a listing
for a certain time before you could have the job. If possible, I'd arrive in
Germany with a certain job offer as opposed to being sure you can find one
within your three month tourist visa period.
The more difficult part would be that people who work in foreigner's office
and all other government offices (I had to go to at least three different
offices), as a rule, don't speak English. And you'll visit the
Ausländerbehörde itself at least three times, and they will give you
instructions, orally, in German, on what to do/where to go next.
Further, just as a rule, you will need to learn German in order to feel
comfortable in your day to day life in the country and to integrate. Many tech
companies say that you don't need to know German to work in Berlin -- though
your workplace may operate in English, the rest of your life won't. Learning
the German language is much more difficult than getting residency itself.
Let me know if you have any more questions. I moved from the US to Germany for
a technical job about 6 months ago so I remember full well the procedure.
~~~
themckman
I appreciate the response. I do plan on starting German classes this Spring
and, also, visiting Berlin in the later Summer months. If you have any
pointers on what the best way to look for work is in this situation, I'd love
to hear them. I would like to connect with a few people when I'm out there
and, maybe, planned on working a day or two at a local coop space (if any
exist) just to meet a few people. Thanks, again.
~~~
playing_colours
Hi, please any questions or advice on job search, visa, etc. I am an expat,
software developer, working in Berlin at some startup. My email: 2belikespring
at gmail. Welcome!
------
frenger
I know this is why I use Wunderlist (Berlin), rather than RTM or Things or
similar (USA) - I'm more comfortable under their local privacy obligations.
(In reality I don't know how much difference it makes?)
~~~
WA
In reality it depends on at least two things:
1\. Is their team capable of securing their environment and releasing code
that isn't vulnerable to data theft attacks?
2\. Do they also store all their customers' information in Germany or is it on
some US-based servers?
~~~
Argorak
6wunderkinder seems to use Amazon AWS:
[http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-
studies/6wunderkinder/](http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-
studies/6wunderkinder/)
~~~
WA
Interesting. Amazon AWS in Europe is hosted all over Europe, e. g. Ireland
etc. They should comply to EU privacy laws, but not necessarily to Germany's
privacy laws. Difficult.
~~~
Argorak
Also, US companies have to comply with the patriot act even for data centers
outside of the US.
EC2 in Europe is hosted in Ireland only.
~~~
lmm
Like any other company operating in Europe, they're subject to punishment if
they're violating EU privacy regulations. That US law obliges them to do so is
no defence.
~~~
Argorak
Sure, they are between a rock and a hard place in that respect. But that
doesn't help you if you want to push your data somewhere out of access from
the US. The company in question has to comply to the requests just as they do
in the US, fine or not.
~~~
lmm
Well it's very hard to make it _physically impossible_ for the US to access
your data. The most practical thing you can do is store your data somewhere
with a solid, well enforced legal system where it would be illegal for anyone
to transport it to the US, or for the US to access it.
I mean, it's just as illegal for the US to access private data in Europe if
the server it's on is owned by a US company or a European one. So it's not
like AWS is especially vulnerable.
------
junto
Here is a nice little anecdote. I previously mentioned that the official
German Federal Bureau of Information Technology (BSI) launched a tool [2] to
help the public find out if their identities were included in the analysis of
a recently cracked botnet that resulted in a database of 16 million people's
identities [1].
Germans can enter their email address and you are given a result as to whether
you were included or not. If you are, you are advised to assume that you
computer is compromised.
I told my office colleagues about this (who are German and not tin-foil hat
wearers by any means), who immediately stated that they wouldn't use it
because they don't trust the government not to spy on them. They specifically
referenced the backdoor / trojan that was attributed to the BND back in 2011
as a case in point [3].
Personally, I think that this little story quite accurately sums up German
attitudes to privacy and distrust of government.
[1]
[https://www.bsi.bund.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Presse2...](https://www.bsi.bund.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Presse2014/Mailtest_21012014.html)
[2] [https://www.sicherheitstest.bsi.de/](https://www.sicherheitstest.bsi.de/)
[3] [http://theconversation.com/ein-spy-is-the-german-
government-...](http://theconversation.com/ein-spy-is-the-german-government-
using-a-trojan-to-watch-its-citizens-3765)
~~~
Perseids
I would like to add that the German distrust of government is fundamentally
different to what I've come to know about the American distrust of government.
We are very careful to give the government power that might be used to control
the populace and further a totalitarian regime. But otherwise we have a strong
government with a robust public health care system, free education (including
great public universities) and reasonably good unemployment insurance. Some of
that is eroding away unfortunately, but by an large Germans have a much more
positive attitude regarding government organization and regulation than
Americans.
~~~
peteretep
> including great public universities
Citation for German universities being great?
~~~
DasIch
I think the focus here is on the public part. Private universities in Germany
don't have a particularly good reputation in general and are considered to be
a way out for children who didn't do well in school but have parents rich
enough to buy them into a university.
Public schools on the other hand are all considered to be more or less equally
good, so it doesn't really matter which one you attended later in life, which
as I gather is different in the US.
------
Mommo
Hey there!
This is Moritz from ZenGuard (the company behind ZenMate).
We really appreciate being mentioned in the article.
Shameless plug: We're currently hiring to build more great products with
privacy in mind, if you're interested in joining our berlin based startup you
can see the open positions here:
[https://zenmate.io/jobs](https://zenmate.io/jobs)
Thanks!
------
igl
Privacy? lol-wat? 1990 is over. Berlin is hyped because it's a cool city at
very low costs with easy visa's.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
“Stop Designing Languages. Write Libraries Instead.” - patricksli
http://lbstanza.org/purpose_of_programming_languages.html
======
vorg
> why can't a group of programmers just copy the design of Rails to Java?
> [...] as of now, there is still no decent web framework for Java that is as
> easy to use as Ruby on Rails. Why is that? [...] Well, simply, because they
> can't.
> pretty much all of the Ruby language features come into play in some way.
> Rail's ActiveRecords [...] Ruby's runtime evaluation features. [...] you
> subclass ApplicationController [...] importing various mixins [...]
> attaching a call back [...] Ruby is dynamically-typed and garbage-collected.
> These features are simply not available in all other languages. Java's meta-
> programming features, for example, are just not powerful enough to implement
> a system like ActiveRecords. Rails is only possible because of Ruby.
Groovy and Grails tried to duplicate Ruby and Rails, even having soundalike
names. Unfortunately, after its founder was managed out, Groovy (nowadays
called Apache Groovy) lost its way and tried to diversify down many roads
(e.g. generics, command syntax for Gradle, static type compilation, targeting
Android) instead of sticking to its knitting and becoming the best possible
JVM dynamic language for software like Grails, even eventually became good at
none of its goals. So although it's a no-brainer that Grails would become as
popular for the JVM as Ruby became for native apps (heck, Grails even bundles
Spring), because of the incompetent project management of Groovy (which
doesn't even have a roadmap now), Grails adoption faltered.
------
dexwiz
Use the right tool for the right job. This includes picking the correct
language and the correct patterns for that langauge. Of course Ruby's patterns
that take advantage of metaprogramming don't work in Java. But Java has a very
mature Web library, Spring. It uses heavily uses dependency injection. I find
DI to be a nightmare in dynamic languages like Ruby or JS but works great in
Java.
We need good languages and good libraries. Just as we need good math and good
physics in mechanical engineering. They exist at different layers and are not
exclusive.
~~~
m_mueller
I'm curious, what's the problem with DI in dynamic languages? I don't really
get what you're missing other than type safety, which is inherent to
everything you do in dynamic languages.
------
mark_l_watson
The author might want to look at Haskell: strong typed, extensible type
system, good for DSLs, etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Anonymous sources: an experiment - j_b_f
http://jbf.posterous.com/anonymous-sources-an-experiment
======
anigbrowl
Anonymous sources are not anonymous to the press, who usually require at least
two independent sources for any given assertion - at least, those news organs
that wish to be taken seriously over the long term do. Journalistic anonymity
can be used abusively to manipulate the news, but then so can official
stonewalling and censure of outspoken individuals.
~~~
m_h_l
What's the point of having the source maintain anonymity for "normal" non-
secret stuff? There's no point in not naming your source unless it's damaging
secret stuff--in which case call your source "anonymous" instead of "a senior
administration official" or "party staffers".
For anything else, if your sources remain unnamed, there's no way for the
public to corroborate your assertions, and it's not "news" anymore, it's
"opinion"...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Startups should think big and start small - jamesjyu
http://www.jamesyu.org/2012/11/18/startups-should-think-big-and-start-small/
======
BerislavLopac
I have only recently discovered Gall's law, and was surprised to realize that
what I've been doing with my project for about a year actually has a name.
Edit: Forgot the link: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%27s_law>
------
hakcermani
Well said james.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Simple way to access various statistics in Git repository from bash - arzzen
https://github.com/arzzen/git-quick-stats
======
00dani
Nice idea, but why depend on dialog at all? Surely the Git Way™ would be to
accept switches or subcommands to pick which stats you want to see, perhaps
with an _optional_ interactive mode.
Additionally, judging by the name this is meant as a Git custom command. It
should therefore be possible to run it with `git quick-stats`, like any other
Git command. I'd suggest updating the docs to confirm that this usage is
possible and recommended.
~~~
arzzen
Thanks for your comment, i edited it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Gmail Clone Built with Flutter - gitgud
https://github.com/rodydavis/gmail_clone
======
Normille
Thanks for this. I'm about half-way through The Complete Flutter Development
Course on Udemy at the moment. So will be on the lookout, afterwards, for
example Flutter apps to pick apart and see how they work.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ARM Macs and Virtualization: It's going to be great - mlillustrated
http://www.ml-illustrated.com/2020/06/25/ARM-Macs-virtualization-different-take.html
======
reaperducer
"It's going to be great!"
"It's the end of the world!"
"This will make my life so much easier!"
"I'll never buy another Mac again!"
I've stopped clicking on rando blogs linked on HN. It's all bait at this
point.
~~~
mercer
I don't know if it's a summer thing, but same here.
That said, I've clicked on every Apple-related link and made a point of mostly
skimming through each of them. There was usually something valuable (by my
standard), but yeah, a lot of it I really don't want clogging up my brain.
------
ivanstojic
I worked for several large companies where the on-machine (not containerized)
development was very clean.
That hygiene required a large team of dev tools engineering to support it. For
the smaller companies, dockerizing individual projects for development was...
a regrettable but easy shortcut to not having to wrangle with local setup.
I wonder if this author never experienced or already forgot fighting with
venv/pipenv/conda?
------
andrewguy9
If this slows or stops the use of Docker in local development I’m all for it.
Docker for development is a plague on this earth. It burns battery, slows
builds, makes fan noise, eats huge amounts of bandwidth/HDD space, makes
debugging a nightmare. All for what? It’s marginally better at setting up a
self contained dev environment. Oh wait, Docker can’t do that; you also need
docker compose.
~~~
wayneftw
Most of the problems you listed are because you want to use a laptop to work
for some reason. Ewww. Why anyone would want to optimize for working in
trains, planes, automobiles, hotel rooms and meetings - I'll never understand.
I've never had any of these problems with my very inexpensive tower computer,
which I upgraded to 32gb of RAM and terabytes of disk space, that was probably
a third of the cost of your laptop.
~~~
txcwpalpha
Better yet, why not have the best of both worlds?
I know most devs are hesitant to try anything that's "always online", but
remote development apps have really gotten better recently. VSCode with the
Remote extension makes doing development on a VPS a breeze, and unless you
have a _really bad_ internet connection, you probably won't even notice it's
remote. And then you also get the benefits of the VPS having a faster internet
connection (faster package downloads, etc), most likely better specs than your
laptop for only $10-15/mo, more resiliency, and better security. It also
completely solves the whole "my laptop is ARM but my servers are x86" problem
that keeps getting talked about.
~~~
OkGoDoIt
I use VS Code remote development via SSH to a $5 a month digital ocean server,
and it’s so incredibly smooth and easy. You would never know it wasn’t local.
I’ve been using Windows for decades so I’m very productive running windows on
the desktop, but I prefer to use Linux on the server. VS Code remote over SSH
is the perfect combination for me. For someone who loves macOS the situation
should be exactly the same, regardless of whether they are on ARM or x86. If
you haven’t tried it yet, I highly recommend giving it a try!
------
brians
I believe it’s going to be great for ANE users, but let’s just say that this
author’s opinions on how local Docker shouldn’t be part of the “core
development cycle” don’t match my environment. This is going to mean
investment in Linux laptops, for all their problems, for us.
~~~
MrBuddyCasino
Yeah that part was just "you're holding it wrong". I'm surprised that the
option of running ARM containers on an ARM Linux isn't even mentioned? This
would surely be the way forward?
~~~
znpy
Not necessarily.
What if your laptop is arm but your production environment is x86 ?
You might think "well i'll have arm containers on my laptop and x86 containers
in production" but then it means that dev and prod diverge: you're running
different software, that might have different behaviors.
One of the core ideas of docker was that you could have ideally the same
artifact both in developmend, testing, staging, qa and prod environments.
There's little way around the core problem: mac os x badly suited for running
docker containers. The most performant way to run docker containers is to run
them in native gnu/linux (hence: gnu/linux laptops)
~~~
ed25519FUUU
Can you articulate any divergence you expect that wouldn’t otherwise be
present running your container on another environment (prod)? I think
“divergence” is a non-issue here if you’re testing locally, but the final
build and push comes from another x86 CI host.
------
jacknews
There seem to be a quite few gushing Apple pieces recently.
"enable developers to write code on their ARM Macs, test across devices
locally, and deploy to iOS devices and server-side"
I believe a step is missing, "Apple approve/sign the code".
~~~
GeekyBear
For Mac apps, there is no human approval process, just an automated malware
scan/code signing workflow.
Frankly, I find this less troublesome than Windows Defender refusing to run
apps from indie developers who don't have a good enough "reputation score".
------
jayd16
>Its going to be great! What about Docker being slow? The great news is you
shouldn't use Docker! :D
What nonsense is this?
------
sheeshkebab
Author seems to be iOS developer with coreml experience...
No question that iOS dev will be better with these arm macs, as to development
on Mac for other platforms it’s hard to say but my bet will be world of pain
for the next few years.
------
fnordsensei
This post hints at something that I've thought might be Apple's potential
answer to "how will it make economical sense to make workstation-grade CPUs
for the higher end of the Mac line, given the amount of such units sold?"
The potential answer is to go AWS. Build up a cloud platform using the same
CPUs, move all Apple cloud infrastructure onto it, rent the rest of the
capacity out to the public.
With this, plus the sales from high-end Macs/MacBooks, the R&D overhead for
high end CPUs might make sense.
~~~
jamil7
Do you think they have the kind of culture and experience inhouse to pull
something like that off? I'm skeptical that it's in Apple's wheelhouse but
it'd be interesting to see.
~~~
fnordsensei
I honestly don't know, it just made sense as a possible solution given the
limited insight I have.
Before AWS, I didn't expect Amazon to become the power that it is with regards
to cloud either.
Perhaps Apple can provide some unique attributes of cloud infrastructure
that's specifically useful to people who otherwise operate within their
ecosystem, without feeling like they need to compete with Amazon/Google/MS in
every aspect.
------
RivieraKid
> Funnily enough, I’d say this is the biggest rationale for Apple going ARM
> for Macs, which is to make the development environment exactly the same as
> their deployment targets, namely iOS, iPadOS, Apple Watch, Apple TV, and
> soon, MacOS.
No it's not. This is a negligable advantage for iOS developers (I am one and
don't care about this at all). Improving the developer experience a bit does
not bring enough value to Apple to make such a risky and expensive move.
------
sradman
> ...the problem of x86 emulation can be dealt with if Apple offers ARM-based
> cloud servers.
Amazon has a very good ARM64 cloud offering with their M6g instances. Pure
ARM64 server-side Linux stacks are not yet mainstream but the ARM64 Macs will
help.
~~~
TheCondor
Apple dropping Intel changes the way I feel about Graviton. I thought it was
sort of a ploy from Amazon to maybe get better deals from Intel and AMD and to
give them a fixed cost way to run their own stuff.
It makes me think that Intel's issues are substantially bigger than some
process issues and maybe an architecture generational issue to be sorted out.
These are two big, high profile customers that have lost the faith.
~~~
sradman
Amazon’s James Hamilton has been bullish on server-side ARM for a long time.
[1]
[1] [https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2015/10/arm-server-
market/](https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2015/10/arm-server-market/)
------
TYPE_FASTER
Does anybody have any tips on minimizing CPU resource use when running Linux
containers on a Mac? I'm currently running Docker Desktop Community 2.3.0.2.
Thanks in advance for any help.
~~~
znpy
Eh: run Linux on your mac. You'll skip the whole linux vm overhead and nfs i/o
overhead.
There's not much way around it.
------
nickcw
Has there been an announcement from Apple to say they will virtualize Docker
to run x86 images or is it just speculation?
I would have thought running arm64 Docker images would be the best way
forward.
~~~
sigjuice
Docker will not run x86 images.
[https://youtu.be/Hg9F1Qjv3iU?t=3742](https://youtu.be/Hg9F1Qjv3iU?t=3742)
------
insaneirish
> The concern is that under x86 emulation instead of hypervisor, the
> performance hit could be significant.
You are not going to be able to run an x86 hypervisor/VM on Apple Silicon
Macs. This is very clearly laid out by Apple:
[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment)
~~~
snowwrestler
That is about Rosetta, not Apple Silicon.
~~~
insaneirish
> That is about Rosetta, not Apple Silicon.
It's about Rosetta... on Apple Silicon: "Rosetta is a translation process that
allows users to run apps that contain x86_64 instructions on Apple silicon."
The original post pre-supposes that you're going to be able to run x86 VMs on
Apple Silicon Macs. You can't: "Rosetta doesn’t translate the following
executables [...] Virtual Machine apps that virtualize x86_64 computer
platforms"
~~~
snowwrestler
Rosetta has the specific purpose of running MacOS applications that were
compiled for x86 on Apple Silicon. It is not a general x86 emulator and
therefore you can't run an arbitrary x86 VM on top of it.
There will be other applications created--probably not by Apple--that will
provide general-purpose x86 emulation on Apple Silicon.
------
seek3r00
Look, I get it, Docker has its downsides and it wasn’t meant for local
development.
But it just works (most of the times). I can worry about getting shit done,
instead of messing around with web servers, interpreters and package managers
(it’s fun the first couple of times, but then I want to get to the code).
The problem is that Docker on Mac sucks, because it’s basically a VM running
Linux, and it eats up most of my 8 gigs of RAM (yeah I know, 2020).
Maybe, what Apple really needs is something like WSL2.
~~~
vbezhenar
WSL2 basically is a VM running Linux :) There's actually Windows-native docker
which runs Windows containers. But it's not very useful, because there are
very few images compiled for Windows.
Docker is useful because of those thousands of companies publishing "official"
images. You can't expect them to publish those images for every possible
platform. They target Linux x64. May be they'll target Linux ARM, may be not.
~~~
seek3r00
Well, you’re right, but the hypervisor under-the-hood is better.
------
ed25519FUUU
This announcement aligns well with Graviton. I can see people building and
deploying ARM64 from start to finish, and running it in Amazon’s economical
graviton fleet.
------
bovermyer
I am not an Apple developer. I do a lot with Docker and Linux system
administration. I develop and maintain applications that run in Docker or on
Linux directly. I also dual-boot Linux and Windows on my home PC.
I'm intrigued by macOS on ARM. Intrigued enough to buy an ARM Mac when they
come out.
I'm not all-in on this by any means. It's more accurate to say I'm cautiously
optimistic.
------
santoshalper
This one feels a lot less substantive than the original article it is intended
to rebut.
------
gdsdfe
It would be crazy to see Apple entering the cloud market with ARM based
servers
~~~
sgillen
Does ARM offer any advantage in the server space? Is there really demand for
OS X cloud compute?
------
pilililo2
Spoiler: no it's not.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Will the Java Platform Create The World's Largest App Store? - iamelgringo
http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/will_java_be_the_world
======
aristus
This is rather disturbing. Not only does it abuse the idea of trusted updates
even more, since it's bundled with an important runtime you probably won't be
able to opt out completely.
Certainly not what the users signed up for when they bought that computer or
installed that runtime. And now every company with some installed base is
going to try this. I can't wait for the Claria/Gator/Yahoo/AOL App Store!
------
MikeMacMan
"As with other app stores, Sun will charge for distribution - but unlike other
app stores, whose audiences are tiny, measured in the millions or tens of
millions, ours will have what we estimate to be approximately a billion users.
"
I mean, come on...
~~~
JunkDNA
Yeah, that made me gag too... their PR department is really over-selling
things. They also overlook a very embarrassing fact: in spite of all those
"users", I bet they have almost no brand recognition whatsoever with at least
75% of them. Most average consumers install Java because some website told
them that they have to and they've long since forgotten about it (or at least
until the updater nagged them from the Windows task bar that updates were
available).
------
mbrubeck
Java may have a great development platform, but it's not a great end-user
platform. As a user, I'm never going to go to the Java App Store to shop for
software.
~~~
anigbrowl
You don't have to. They can push it to you with an update, and damn near
everyone has it installed already. PR is hyperbole of course, but they do have
a very large installed base, who are used to it being on their machines even
if they're not sure what it does.
The trick will be to invite users in such a way that it doesn't look like a
browser popup.
------
darkxanthos
Will the Java Platform Create The World's Largest Crap Store? (sun.com)
There fixed that for ya. Java might be extremely popular but it is not known
for its aesthetic qualities. You can get away with it on the back-end but I
don't believe they really know how to appeal to users/consumers (hence the
roaring success of JavaFX or any other Java UI tech /sarcasm).
------
ozten
No.
------
ShabbyDoo
Sun has a habit of using JavaOne to beat developers over the head with
whatever shiny, new idea is perceived to make it the most money (or, in past
years, will cause analysts to increase price targets). Schwartz loves to talk
about "billions and billions" like Carl Sagan, but his numbers are irrelevant
when it comes to predicting partner revenue. His reasoning is much like that
of an entrepreneur saying, "If we only capture one percent of this market..."
Nevermind, in this case, that there are fewer and fewer reasons to build a
desktop app instead of a webapp.
------
barrybe
Awesome. Fresh off of the incredible non-success of our client-side Java
Applet, Java Web Start, and JavaFX platforms, we're going to take advantage of
our required JRE download to push out software that users probably don't want
it. (I mean, if the user _really_ wanted that stuff, they could just go to the
vendor's web side, am I right?). If you thought the default Yahoo toolbar was
annoying, we're just getting started!
------
davidw
So why do they still get to ship their runtime with Windows? Is that a relic
of the anti trust settlement?
~~~
lallysingh
Separate lawsuit after MS broke the Java license with their own semicompliant
JVM.
------
JereCoh
No. because all Java desktop apps run like crap.
~~~
ShabbyDoo
Many do, but they don't have to. Look at Eclipse as an example of what can be
done.
Also, there's no indication that the store will be limited to Java apps. Sun
is basically selling slots inside its Trojan horse.
~~~
tlrobinson
While Eclipse is indeed one of the best Java desktop applications I've seen,
it's still much worse than most "native" desktop applications (at least on OS
X) in terms of polish and performance (though it certainly has a lot of
functionality)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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