thegoodfellas/blogset-br huggingface dataset:
it comes in there are people who'll be prepared for it but if the new kingdom happened tomorrow and you were sitting there and I was sitting here you wouldn't even remember me.Can you converse and find agreement with Orthodox Jews?Yeah, yeah.And with Christians?Oh yeah. Yeah, with anybody.Sounds like a new synthesis.Well no. If I thought the world needed a new religion I would start one. But there are a lot of other religions too. There's those Indian religions, eastern religions, Buddhism, you know. They're happening too.When you meet up with Orthodox people, can you sit down with them and say "Well, you should really check out Christianity"?Well, yeah, if somebody asks me, I'll tell 'em. But you know, I'm not gonna just offer my opinion. I'm more about playing music, you know?Your views apparently seemed clear to many record buyers. Were you frustrated by the commercial resistance -- both on record and on the road -- to your fundamentalist-influenced music?Well after the '78 gospel tour, I wanted to keep touring in '79. But I knew that we'd gone everywhere in '78, so how you gonna play in '79? Go back to the same places? So, at that point I figured "Well I don't care if I draw no crowds no more." And a lotta places we played on the last tour, we filled maybe half the hall.And you don't think that was because of the material you were doing?I don't think so. I don't think it had to do with anything. I think when your time is your time it don't matter what you're doin'. It's either your time or it's not your time. And I didn't feel the last few years was really my time. But that's no reason for me to make any kinda judgment call on what it is I'm gonna be. The people who reacted to the gospel stuff would've reacted that way if I hadn't done you know, "Song to Woody."You think so?Yeah, I know it. I can usually anticipate that stuff - what's going on what's the mood. There's a lotta young performers around. And they look good and they move good and they're sayin' stuff that is, uh, excitable, you know? Face it, a lotta that stuff is just made and geared for twelve-year-old kids. It's like baby food.Your latest album, Infidels, is hardly subteen fodder. Some critics have even detected a new note of conservatism in some of the songs -- even outright jingoism in "Neighborhood Bully" in which the metaphorical subject is said to be "just one man" whose "enemies say he's on their land." That's clearly a strong Zionist political statement, is it not?You'd have to point that out to me, you know, what line is in it that spells that out. I'm not a political songwriter. Joe Hill was a political songwriter; uh, Merle Travis wrote some political songs. "Which Side Are You On?" is a political song. And "Neighborhood Bully," to me, is not a political song, because if it were, it would fall into a certain political party.
If you're talkin' about it as an Israeli political song - in Isreal alone, there's maybe twenty political parties. I don't know where that would fall, what party.Well, would it be fair to call that song a heartfelt statement of belief?Maybe it is, yeah. But just because somebody feels a certain way, you can't come around and stick some political-party slogan on it. If you listen closely, it really could be about other things. It's simple and easy to define it, so you got it pegged, and you can deal with it in that certain kinda way. However, I wouldn't do that. 'Cause I don't know what the politics of Israel is. I just don't know.So you haven't resolved for yourself, for instance, the Palestinian question?Not really, because I live here.Would you ever live in Israel?I don't know. It's hard to speculate what tomorrow may bring. I kinda live where I find myself.At another point in the song, you say, "He got no allies to really speak of," and while "he buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied...no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side." Do you feel that America should send troops over there?No. The song doesn't say that. Who should, who shouldn't -- who am I to say?Well, do you think Israel should get more help from the American Jewish community? I don't want to push this so far, but it just seems so...Well, you're not pushing it too far, you're just making it specific. And you're making it specific to what's going on today. But what's going on today isn't gonna last, you know? The battle of Armageddon is specifically spelled out: where it will be fought, and if you wanna get technical, when it will be fought. And the battle of the Armageddon definitely will be fought in the Middle East.Do you follow the political scene, or have any kinda of fix on what the politicians are talking about this year?I think politics is an instrument of the Devil. Just that clear. I think politics is what kills; it doesn't bring anything alive. Politics is corrupt; I mean, anybody knows that.So you don't care who is president? It doesn't make any difference?I don't think so. I mean, how long is Reagan gonna be president? I've seen like four or five of them myself, you know? And I've seen two of them die in office. How can you deal with Reagan and get so serious about that, when the man isn't gonna be there when you get your thing together?So you don't think there's any difference between, say, a Kennedy and a Nixon? It doesn't matter at all?I don't know. It's very popular nowadays to think of yourself as a "liberal humanist." That's such a bullshit term. It means less than nothing. Who was a better president? Well, you got me. I don't know what people's errors are; nobody's perfect, for sure. But I though Kennedy -- both Kennedys -- I just liked them. And I liked Martin...Martin Luther King. I thought those were people
who were blessed and touched, you know? The fact that they all went out with bullets doesn't change nothing, because the good they do gets planted. And those seeds live on longer than that.Do you still hope for peace?There is not going to be any peace.You don't think it's worth working for?No It's just gonna be a false peace. You can reload your rifle, and that moment you're reloading it, that's peace. It may last for a few years.Isn't it worth fighting for that?Nah, none of that matters. I heard somebody on the radio talkin' about what's happenin' in Haiti, you know? "We must be concerned about what's happening in Haiti. We're global people now." And they're gettin' everybody in that frame of mind - like, we're not just the United States anymore, we're global. We're thinkin' in terms of the whole world because communications come right into your house. Well, that's what the Book of Revelation is all about. And you can just about know that anybody who comes out for peace is not for peace.But what if someone genuinely is for peace?Well, you can't be for peace and be global. It's just like that song "Man of Peace." But none of this matters, if you believe in another world. If you believe in this world, you're stuck; you really don't have a chance. You'll go mad, 'cause you won't see the end of it. You may wanna stick around, but you won't be able to. On another level, though, you will be able to see this world. You'll look back and say, "Ah, that's what it was all about all the time. Wow, why didn't I get that?"That's a very fatalistic view, isn't it?I think it's realistic. If it is fatalistic, it's only fatalistic on this level, and this level dies anyway, so what's the difference? So you're fatalistic, so what?There's a lyric in License to Kill: "Man has invented his doom/First step was touching the moon." Do you really believe that?Yeah, I do. I have no idea why I wrote that line, but on some level, it's like just a door into the unknown.Isn't man supposed to progress, to forge ahead?Well...but not there. I mean, what's the purpose of going to the moon? To me, it doesn't make any sense. Now they're gonna put a space station up there, and it's gonna cost, what -- $600 billion, $700 billion? And who's gonna benefit from it? Drug companies who are gonna be able to make better drugs. Does that make sense? Is that supposed to be something that a person is supposed to get excited about? Is that progress? I don't think they're gonna get better drugs. I think they're gonna get more expensive drugs.Everything is computerized now, it's all computers. I see that as the beginning of the end. You can see everything going global. There's no nationality anymore, no I'm this or I'm that: "We're all the 'same, all workin' for one peaceful world, blah, blah, blah."Somebody's gonna have to come along and figure out what's happening with
the United States. Is this just an island that's going to be blown out of the ocean, or does it really figure into things? I really don't know. At this point right now, it seems that it figures into things. But later on, it will have to be a country that's self-sufficient, that can make it by itself without that many imports.Right now, it seems like in the States, and most other countries, too, there's a big push on to make a big global country -- one big country -- where you can get all the materials from one place and assemble them someplace else and sell 'em in another place, and the whole world is just all one, controlled by the same people, you know? And if it's not there already, that's the point it's tryin' to get to.In "Union Sundown," the Chevrolet you drive is "put together down in Argentina by a guy makin' thirty cents a day." Are you saying he'd be better off without that thirty cents a day?What's thirty cents a day? He don't need the thirty cents a day. I mean, people survived for 6000 years without having to work for slave wages for a person who comes down and...well, actually, it's just colonization. But see, I saw that stuff firsthand, because where I come from, they really got that deal good, with the ore.In Minnesota, in the Iron Range, where you grew up?Yeah. Everybody was workin' here at one time. In fact, ninety percent of the iron for the Second World War came out of those mines, up where I'm from. And eventually, they said, "Listen, this is costing too much money to get this out. We must be able to get it someplace else." Now the same thing is happening, I guess, with other products.What was it like growing up in Hibbing, Minnesota, in the Fifties?You're pretty much ruled by nature up there. You have to sort of fall into line with that, regardless of how you're feeling that day or what you might want to do with your life, or what you think about. And it still is like that, I think.Were you aware of any anti-Semitism there when you were a kid?No. Nothing really mattered to me except learning another song or a new chord, or finding a new place to play, you know? Years later, when I'd recorded a few albums, then I started seeing in places: "Bob Dylan's a Jew," stuff like that I said, "Jesus, I never knew that." But they kept harping on it; it seemed like it was important for people to say that - like they'd say "the one-legged street singer" or something. So after a period of time, I thought, "Well, gee, maybe I'll look into that."I don't know. I never noticed it occurring with any other artists; I mean, I've never seen it about Barbra Streisand or Neil Diamond. But it has occurred with me. As a kid, though, I never felt anything, like, I had to fight my way through schoolyard crowds, you
know. As long as I had a guitar, I was happy.Was Hibbing an oppressive place? Did it just make you want to get out?Not really. I didn't really know anything else except, uh, Hank Williams. I remember hearin' Hank Williams one or two years before he died. And that sort of introduced me to the guitar. And once I had the guitar, it was never a problem. Nothing else was ever a problem.Did you get to see any of the original rock & roll guys, like Little Richard, Buddy Holly?Yeah, sure. I saw Buddy Holly two or three nights before he died. I saw him in Duluth at the armory. He played there with Link Wray. I don't remember the Big Bopper. Maybe he'd gone off by the time I came in. But I saw Ritchie Valens. And Buddy Holly, yeah. He was great. He was incredible. I mean, I'll never forget the image of seeing Buddy Holly up on the bandstand. And he died -- it must have been a week after that. It was unbelievable.Late at night, I used to listen to Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Jimmy Reed and Howlin' Wolf blastin' in from Shreveport. It was a radio show that lasted all night. I used to stay up till two, three o'clock in the morning. Listened to all those songs, then tried to figure them out. I started playing myself.How did you take to the guitar?First, I bought a Nick Manoloff book. I don't think I could get past the first one. And I had a Silvertone guitar from Sears. In those days, they cost thirty or forty dollars, and you only had to pay five dollars down to get it. So I had my first electric guitar.I had a couple of bands in high school, maybe three or four of 'em. Lead singers would always come in and take my bands, because they would have connections, like maybe their fathers would know somebody, so they could get a job in the neighboring town at the pavilion for a Sunday picnic or something. And I'd lose my band. I'd see it all the time.That must have made you a little bitter.Yeah, it did actually. And then I had another band with my cousin from Duluth. I played, you know, rock & roll, rhythm & blues. And then that died out pretty much, in my last year of high school.And after that, I remember I heard a record -- I think maybe it was the Kingston Trio or Odetta or someone like that -- and I sorta got into folk music. Rock & roll was pretty much finished. And I traded my stuff for a Martin that they don't sell anymore, an 0018, maybe, and it was brown. The first acoustic guitar I had. A great guitar. And then, either in Minneapolis or St. Paul, I heard Woody Guthrie. And when I heard Woody Guthrie, that was it, it was all over.What struck you about him?Well, I heard them old records, where he sings with Cisco Houston and Sonny
[Terry] and Brownie [McGhee] and stuff like that, and then his own songs. And he really struck me as an independent character. But no one ever talked about him. So I went through all his records I could find and picked all that up by any means I could. And when I arrived in New York, I was mostly singing his songs and folk songs. At that time, I was runnin' into people who were playing the same kind of thing, but I was kinda combining elements of Southern mountain music with bluegrass stuff, English-ballad scuff. I could hear a song once and know it. So when I came to New York, I could do a lot of different stuff. But I never thought I'd see rock & roll again when I arrived here.Did you miss it?Not really, because I liked the folk scene. It was a whole community, a whole world that was all hooked up to different towns in the United States. You could go from here to California and always have a place to stay, and always play somewhere, and meet people. Nowadays, you go to see a folk singer-- what's the folk singer doin'? He's singin' all his own songs. That ain't no folk singer. Folk singers sing those old folk songs, ballads.I met a lot of folk singers in New York, and there were a lot of 'em in the Twin Cities. But I ran into some people in England who really knew those songs. Martin Carthy, another guy named Nigel Davenport. Martin Carthy's incredible. I learned a lot of stuff from Martin. "Girl from the North Country" is based on a song I heard him sing -- that "Scarborough Fair" song, which Paul Simon, I guess, just took the whole thing.Could folk ever become big again?Well, yeah, it could become big again. But people gotta go back and find the songs. They don't do it no more. I was tellin' somebody that thing about when you go to see a folk singer now, you hear somebody singin' his own songs. And the person says, "Yeah, well, you started that." And in a sense, it's true. But I never would have written a song if I didn't play all them old folk songs first. I never would have thought to write a song, you know? There's no dedication to folk music now, no appreciation of the art form.Do you notice that you've influenced a lot of singers over the years?It's phrasing. I think I've phrased everything in a way that it's never been phrased before. I'm not tryin' to brag or anything -- or maybe I am [laughs] But yeah, I hear stuff on the radio, doesn't matter what kinda stuff it is, and I know if you go back far enough, you'll find somebody listened to Bob Dylan somewhere, because of the phrasing. Even the content of the times. Up until I started doin' that stuff, nobody was talkin' about that sort of thing. For music to succeed on any levels. Well, you're always gonna have
your pop radio stuff, but the only people who are gonna succeed, really, are the people who are sayin' somethin' that is given to them to say. I mean, you can only carry "Tutti Frutti" so far.Like the current rockabilly revival?The rockabilly revival was just about spirit and attitude.Were you aware of punk rock when it happened -- the Sex Pistols, the Clash?Yeah. I didn't listen to it all the time, but it seemed like a logical step, and it still does. I think it's been hurt in a lotta ways by the fashion industry.You've seen the Clash, I understand?Yeah. I met them way back in 1977, 1978. In England. I think they're great. In fact, I think they're greater now than they were.You mean since Mick Jones left?Yeah. It's interesting. It took two guitar players to replace Mick.How about Prince -- have you ever run into him in Minneapolis?No, I never have.Have you met Michael Jackson yet?No, I don't think so. I met Martha and the Vandellas.Do your kids tell you about new groups: "You gotta check out Boy George?"Well, they used to, a few years ago. I kind of like everything.Are your kids musical?Yeah, they all play.Would you encourage them to go into the music business?I would never push 'em or encourage 'em to. I mean, I never went into it as a business. I went into it as a matter of survival. So I wouldn't tell anybody to go into it as a business. It's a pretty cutthroat business, from what I've seen.What do you tell your kids about things like sex and drugs?Well, they don't really ask me too much about that stuff. I think they probably learn enough just by hangin' around me, you know?You had a drug period at one time, didn't you?I never got hooked on any drug - not like you'd say, uh, "Eric Clapton: his drug period."Ever take LSD?I don't wanna say anything to encourage anybody, but, uh, who knows? Who knows what people stick in your drinks, or what kinda cigarettes you're smokin'?When people like Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin started dropping away, did you look upon that as a waste?Jimi, I thought, was a big waste. I saw Jimi, man, that was sad when I saw him. He was in the back seat of a limousine on Bleecker Street, just...I couldn't even tell then whether he was dead or alive.Do your old songs still mean the same to you as when you wrote them?Yeah. Sittin' here, it's hard to imagine it, but yeah. Once you lock into that stuff, it's like it was just written yesterday. When I'm singin' the stuff, sometimes I say, "Wow! Where'd these lyrics come from?" It's amazing.Do you still look back on some of it as protest material? Or did you ever see it as protest material?I think all my stuff is protest material in some kinda way. I always felt like my position and my place came after that first wave, or maybe second wave, of rock & roll. And I felt like I would
never have done the things I did if I just had to listen to popular radio.At one point, didn't you disassociate yourself from the protest form?Well, you see, I never called it protest. Protest is anything that goes against the ordinary and the established. And who's the founder of protest? Martin Luther.Is it true that "Like a Rolling Stone" was done in one take?Yeah, one take. It's amazing. It sounds like it's so together. That was back in the days when we used to do-oh, man, six, eight, ten tunes a session. We used to just go in and come out the next day.Wasn't 'Another Side of Bob Dylan' the result of an all-night session, too?Well, that was pretty quick, too. But that was easier to do, it was just me. But we used to do the same thing when there was a band in there. I don't think a song tike "Rolling Stone" could have been done any other way. What are you gonna do, chart it out?How do you maintain a balance between the requirements of the modern recording studio and the fact that a lot of your best stuff in the past has been done very quickly?Right now, I'm changing my views on that. But I plan to do a little bit more acoustic scuff in the future. I think my next album is probably just gonna be me and my guitar and harmonica. I'm not saying all of it wilt be that way, but I'm sure a few songs wilt be. I know they will be.What's your latest stuff like?I just write 'em as they come, you know? They're not about anything different than what I've ever written about, but they're probably put together in a way that other ones aren't put together. So it might seem tike somethin' new. I don't think I've found any new chords or new progressions, or any new words mat haven't been said before. I think me/re pretty much all the same old thing, just kinda reworked.I heard an outtake from the 'Infidels' sessions called "Blind Willie McTell." Is that ever going to come out? It's a great song.I didn't think I recorded it right. But I don't know why that stuff gets out on me. I mean, it never seems to get out on other people.There's a lot of interest out there. You could put all your unreleased stuff out in, like, a twenty-volume set or something.Yeah, like The Basement Tapes. But it doesn't occur to me to put it out. If I wrote a song three years ago, I seldom go back and get that. I just leave 'em alone.I never really liked The Basement Tapes. I mean, they were just songs we had done for the publishing company, as I remember. They were used only for other artists to record those songs. I wouldn't have put 'em out, But, you know, Columbia wanted to put 'em out, so what can you do?You don't think that album has a great feeling to it? That material really has an aura.I can't