12 | A MBA's Journey Into Film Producing And Patents | Howard Rosen: Novapix
Tags: podcast, beginners, discuss, career
Published: 2023-03-01 18:15:00

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**About**
Get ready to be blown away by the incredible journey of Howard Rosen! He's not your average MBA graduate - this visionary has gone from creating heart-pumping films to consulting in the dynamic world of Healthcare IT. But that's not all! Brace yourself as we delve into the thrilling story of how he used his expertise to produce cutting-edge continuing medical education videos and even secured multiple patents along the way. So buckle up and join us as we uncover the exciting twists and turns of Howard Rosen's remarkable career!

Howard Rosen - [Website](https://novapix.com/)

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Alternate Titles For The Algorithm:
MBA To Film Maker
How To Get A Patent

**Show Notes**
0:01  
Hey y'all, this is your host Elyse Robinson. With nobody wants to work though podcasts, I hope the stories were inspire you to switch careers. I was an Auditor in my past life and I'm in tech, then let's get to it.

0:19  
We are switch into tech tech resources to accelerate your career in information technology, monthly classes on tech topics. We offer free or discounted exam vouchers, scholarships for you to me courses, free events, free boot camps and more, you can find us at www dot switch into tech.org.

0:44  
Hey, this is Elyse Robinson, your host with nobody wants to work though podcast today. I have Howard. And go ahead and tell us what you switched from Howard and how you started. Great, very quickly. So my name is Howard Rosen. My typical career path of many is educated as an MBA, trained for a fortune 500. Company. I have to admit, I didn't attend all my classes, particularly one that said you don't go from graduation to running a fortune 500 company. So being profoundly disappointed upon graduation. Naturally, that background, I spent about 15 years producing film and television.

1:26  
And of course, within that there is a long story. But at the 15th year, I was actually doing expand the company in the area of community of continuing medical education, and came upon this idea of a communication platform for patients and providers. So transition myself to the area of health IT, which I've done for the past almost 15 for about 15 years.

1:49  
As we talked earlier, I have now holds seven patents on that one idea than that original idea that I came up with. And about a year ago being very tired of dealing with boards and investors and the day to day and having been a solopreneur to entrepreneur to running this company. I stepped down from the day to days are made on the board. But I set up a consultancy, which is helping companies in the area of strategy and innovation and transfer digital transformation, taking all the tools I've learned over the years.

2:20  
So that's the quick version of a very

2:25  
here's a fun question. What did you want to be when you you know, God became an adult? That's a very good question I will impart I'm still grappling with that to see what I want to become. When I'm an adult. I really to be honest, I really didn't know it was more. I knew I needed to go to school, I knew like frankly, what a university education and went well, I didn't want to be oddly enough didn't want to be in health, which is course where I am.

2:54  
Didn't want to be a doctor and just all these pieces. So sort of by default this it okay, I've got a business degree. And of course, as things happen in your life, that's interesting twists and turns, I sort of got involved in film and then got involved in health IT. But it wasn't a, quite honestly, it wasn't a master plan to say, Okay, I'm gonna get this education, which is gonna help me produce $100 million worth of production. And then I'm going to help it and get a bunch of patterns. That was definitely there was no whiteboard that showed any reference reference to that.

3:27  
Definitely, most people have said bet. One person said a soccer star. Astronaut was another popular one. I will agree with you that I love space, but I never wanted to go in into I'll agree that I still don't know what I want.

3:48  
It's you know, it's, it's a reinvention every period of time and because things change, environment changes, business environment changes, family changes, and you go, this is kind of interesting. And there is that arrogance to go, I'm gonna just do that then. Which again, completely because I have no sensibility, I just go ahead and just do it. Right sensible person very likely would have just stuck with what they had and build on that. But I'm not that sensible. Yeah, I'm noticing that there's two different types of people one that likes to just discover any and everything and then when they do, you know, they'll go all in for a little bit, you know, say they become a professional at it, but they they can have a conversation about it. And then there are those people that want to say don't ever discover anything new but they just, you know, they they're on a set path and like they never, they never deviate from that.

4:44  
So maybe set for that. In my case. As you mentioned, I'm a very curious person, I read voraciously online and printed documents, and and magazines and things like that. And every once in a while, and it's all these various turns. Oh, this is really intrigued.

5:00  
And then I will get very fixated on the one that was intriguing filming the first one when he said, Oh, I can maybe do this, and got really intrigued by it. And some of the health IT I had this idea that I just couldn't get out of my head. And again, I just said, I have to do this.

5:16  
Definitely, definitely. Um, so where did let's dive deeper into where you you started as your first career? And then how did you figure out that you want to transition to you know, healthcare IT and get your MBA and things like that? Yeah, so I got the MBA first, in part because going to school, I went, Okay, well, an MBA is going to be valuable to have just an MBA down the road. And I figured, well, do I really know myself what I've been the type that can go to school, work for a while, then go back to school for the MBA, and I went, Oh, there's just no way they're going to do that. So I literally just went right through, I still worked while doing this, but I knew I could get my MBA right away. It's okay that that part, my education be over.

6:01  
And then fulfilled for the film, it was really, it was not even a burning desire, it was more just till I figured out what I wanted to do. I used to go through the classified sections in the newspaper in those days to see who's looking for part time work. And I'd go in there and say, well, I could do that as a consultant, you know, NBA consultant, that's what I learned. As a consultant in one day, one of the ads was a producer in the film business is looking for finance person. So I went to the guy and I said, okay, the same pitch, I know you're looking for a person, but you know what, you'll save yourself all kinds of benefits and everything else. Is there a specific project you have? I'll do it as a consultant. And then you can save yourself a lot, a lot of money long term. And he said, Sure, and it gave him the report business plan. And basically it was, he didn't want us to make one picture every three years want to do three pictures a year, basically, tiny, tiny studio. Okay, film don't know much about it. But film widgets, how different can it be, put a business plan together and said, Give it to him? He gave me the check. And this was out the door. He said, Do you want to do this with me?

7:04  
Then what? Oh, that could be kind of cool. And we set a timeframe, which is like one year to see what happened. And on day 365. At midnight, we signed a deal for our first film.

7:15  
And that watched me for about 15 years. And it said but did about $100 million worth of production. And in doing TVs, movies, live events, music, you know, across the board. And I mentioned earlier doing continuing education, medical education was one of the areas I expanded into. And doing this piece of type two diabetes, I can you know, I won't bore you the details, but sort of these aha moments, but came across this idea for communication platform. And so I had run ins running both I hadn't this platform is slowly trying to build. And one of my first client you'd mentioned, we talked a little bit military, but first client was an NGO dealing with veterans suffering from post traumatic stress.

7:58  
And so had a pilot. So I and one week into the pilot, the executive director called me up and he said, Howard, I've got great news. And what's that? He said, using your communication platform, you helped save a life.

8:11  
And I just hung up the phone on him. And he called me back and I just I was swearing at him for about a half an hour after he says what I don't understand why he's so mad. He said, Is this good? I said, No, this is phenomenal. That some good idea I had can actually help somebody. But now I got to do it again. Like you can help one person I have to help one more person because how can I have something that I was involved in building? And it can help people? How can I not help people again?

8:39  
So I had to quit my day job which is producing film and I said I've got to make this thing work. And that's what launched me into the world of health IT

8:50  
Gotcha. You mentioned classified I'm old enough to remember

8:55  
Yeah, sorry. I should have I shouldn't qualify that for the your younger audience.

9:01  
The newspapers like oh gosh, you don't have newspapers anymore but I remember going in there circling to and read the Roman stuff so

9:12  
so my age

9:14  
each myself from this guy's you're 25 to 40 Because you're 25 to 30 Right? I have asked my sister because my sister is 31 is the shield member.

9:28  
We're five years apart almost. But

9:32  
so how did you get the patents then? Oh, you know what? my follow up question to the consumer medical education. I thought that you can only get that as you know somebody in the medical profession. Do they just get your money and you can take these courses because now this was something

9:52  
well, there's actually some many courses you can actually take the CD courses you can but this is actually was producing them. I was actually making them. Oh, you

10:00  
You were making them. I was actually.

10:03  
Oh, no, I can you just go in here and take them?

10:07  
Yeah. There are there many new actions that the average person can take if they wish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I figured. So I'm like, Oh, I'm

10:18  
so how did you get into creating the patents? Well, the patents were, again, it was a business decision and a marketing decision. Because here's this goofy guy who's a film producer, now professes to be in health IT. And so it's really to get credibility by people that had suggested well, you should try to file for a patent for your idea. Just so you can sort of have a and it was really, they're very expensive and really time consuming. But this idea of a provisional patent, which means you just file something that doesn't cost very much money, you've got a year to actually file a full patent if it okay, I'll just do a provisional. So I can say there's a patent pending, and use that as a marketing tool. And then just one thing led to another the year came up and said, Well, you should you really wouldn't want to do this or not. And what,

11:07  
Kay, and just fell into it. Now to sit now it is it isn't for the faint of heart, like I that my first patent took

11:17  
over eight years to get. Part of the reason being the patent office kind of went okay, well, this is a unique idea, which has to be a novel idea. It had to be sort of, you know, not thought of before. So I sat past most of the tests, but they said, but you're crazy. Now, there's a lot of legalese to get into my diagnosis of being crazy when they weren't offering me a patent. But it was eight years of not offering it or allowing it until finally I switched law firms. And when I got the first one, and from that point onward, they said, well, whatever I used to have, and they sort of worked with me to understand a lot of the thoughts and ideas I had relating to the first and others handy compatible products.

12:00  
Gotcha. So that's a patent pending means. So you can you filed it, but hasn't been approved? Yeah, that's actually smart. I see.

12:10  
You right. And I've done trademarks before, but you know, I've never done it. I know, it's very costly. I do know that it can be like a patent filing a provisional is not very expensive. Okay. Okay. So yeah.

12:25  
It can take eight years, and then you don't get the challenge. But you know what smart marketing. That's exactly, that's exactly it, because the reality is a patent. And you know, it's great to have them and I've got more coming. But the value of a patent, as I said, you have to treat it to me, I have to treat treated as a marketing piece. Plus, ultimately, I've got a number of them, there's now like a portfolio that has some has a value to it. But the reality of getting into the whole patent world is it's only as good as your ability to defend it. So it's fine that you get it. And then you go against a company, like, I'll use Microsoft, as an example. They've got a couple of attorneys on staff, who, if you got a patent, they can maybe want to argue against your patent. And it becomes a game of attrition as to how you can go in terms of defending maybe valuable patent butts to defense of the patent, which gets expensive. So it's important to go into a eyes wide open. Definitely. Okay. Okay, turn me on to some of the knowledge. Okay. And outside of that.

13:31  
You were in film. So I mean, you have trade secrets, right? And so that that led you into making these courses? Because I'm sure they have videos and things like that, did you find that being in that industry first really helped you with your business? Oh, absolutely. In terms of health business, or even starting up a new business? Absolutely.

13:55  
And it was because in many cases, I came with a different perspective on how to do it like I can, with the perspective and how you put together film, and how you put together a team and everything else. And I treated putting together my new company health it the same way as I did putting a film together, you finding sort of the best people around, you don't have any investment at the time. You know, it's all self invested. So how do you find the best people for little or no budget, and make this thing come together? So it's pretty, it's the ultimate sort of project management approach to to making it all work. And at the end of the day, as as I, as I thought about it, and in many in many presentations, I did get asked more and more. And it was really the the thread of everything and all this is engagement, the E word because as an MBA is trained to engage customers in film and TV I learned how to engage audiences, your eyeballs on TV screens or bums and seats in the theater. So that's what I learned. And I use that in health IT because the technology is no good to listen

15:00  
used. So I made sure and I work with clients and show the technology is actually used engages the patients or all the various stakeholders in there. But doing so I use a lot of the tricks of the trade, you're quite from the early days of film and television, to ensure and understand understanding that whole concept of engagement and engaging the people. And frankly, as part of the business, the key part is actually doing focus groups, which I did endless infill I do and I sort of incorporated and forced clients to do focus groups, throughout the process of building the technology to ensure it's actually doing what you want it to do and what it needs to do. And not what you think works. But seeing how the users do it like your time. And I'm sure you've run into this similar things if you've done across the board, but many times we have a solution. And the it and it wasn't working and the patient wasn't doing it properly. And the IT department said, Well, they're doing it wrong.

15:56  
And they're not doing it wrong. They're doing it the way they're familiar, that works for them. So we've got to refashion it to a tune to what their needs are.

16:07  
Definitely, definitely, I wanted to ask, how did you figure out that she wanted to get into the continuing medical education field, because that's, that's like out there. Especially considering that you were film and have an MBA and stuff like that, that was really became as an offshoot of the, of my existing business. So became another division of the business. And it was really,

16:31  
I happened to meet up with a few doctors, and we're talking in one day, so we should see this, this is really cool. Something they were involved in a continuing education piece. And I looked at it and you're gonna have some sort of card carrying arrogant producer. I said, Well, that's a bunch of crap. No,

16:49  
I know what it is. But it doesn't look good. The lighting is wrong. sounds wrong message. It's all wrong. And then he told me how much he got paid for it. I said, You got to be kidding me.

16:59  
And it was really more I took it as a challenge is that I could do a lot better job for less money and still make money. And that was really it. That's what got me into it sort of going okay, well, I'm gonna show them

17:12  
go to your earlier question. Curiosity was like, Okay, well, I was curious. And I went, let me see what I can do. And, you know, the arrogance part is I can do I think I can do this.

17:22  
Definitely a lot of businesses have been created, because, you know, the initial business just sucks.

17:33  
Um, next question. All Things come at a cost. What did this cost you when you wanted to transition from, you know, being a consultant, NBA consultant to jumping into basically a video creator, right?

17:51  
TV, that was kind of easy, in part, because it was just go so young, it was more, okay, we just we weren't gonna do here. But it didn't know the difference. Even though my income dropped from being from even the early consulting to building a film and TV business. It was kind of like, okay, I can kind of make this work, the more difficult one is a transaction from being a reasonably successful film producer, to help it building a new business again, going from going to solopreneur entrepreneur again. Because that point, I had four kids family, you know, had the whole different worlds, but it was just as crazy as the single guy with a car.

18:30  
And that transition to the health it was much tougher. And that involves talking to the family say, Look, we're gonna have to make some sacrifices

18:39  
in this transition, in terms until the business itself gets going, but it was also happy to say, you know, I kind of need to do this, but I won't do unless I've got the support of everybody.

18:53  
So there was a, there's a tremendous amount of sacrifice, because change a new career, and you got to be crazy. A lot of you got to be crazy.

19:04  
And that's what my next question is, you know, what did your family say? I mean, were they like, No, you can't do that, you know, what did your friends say? You know, oh, it was all part. It was all a combination of either you gotta be crazy. Or that's Howard. Like, depending who knew me and how well everything else you'll those concern and rightly so. But through the family and everything else, it was very much you got to be crazy. Why are you doing giving up this for that?

19:35  
But so, there was a tremendous and really to get in the world of no, because trying to build a brand new business and everything you're getting a lot you will get a lot of people say well that that won't work, that can't work. They shouldn't work, even if it works, we're not going to do it. And so it's a whole new muscle and skill set I kind of had to build

19:55  
at a later age to to do that.

19:59  
That

20:00  
Personally, I always tell people entrepreneurship has been the hardest thing I have ever done. I mean, it takes your confidence to a whole new level and it brings it down.

20:12  
It's a different level. Okay? And I mean, you have to be strong, you have to be strong when you're eating your beans and your rice.

20:22  
Yeah. When you have a lot of money in there, and you're like, Oh, well, I can spend it, I gotta invest it, you know, exactly, you gotta really believe. And that is, that takes a lot, a lot. So it's a lot of belief. It's not for the faint of heart. And that's why a lot of people don't do it.

20:44  
And for many cases, there's good reason not to do it. It's it is kind of gets escaped when you get the

20:52  
you're driven by the idea. And you have to really believe and understand the idea. And I went into it doing a lot of research and everything else is okay, here's where I think it can work. A friend of mine, who was in health IT in those days, you know, his advice to me. So just remember that this is going to take 2.7 times longer than your most pessimistic

21:15  
estimate on how long it's going to take.

21:20  
Which was and sadly, well, sadly, or rightly, he was absolutely correct in terms of how long it can take to do this. Because the problem just because you got an idea. Others have their own ideas and other programs, and particularly to deal with innovation. Frankly, it's even all the more difficult.

21:37  
Because you're Landau chain trying to change your mindset.

21:41  
Yeah, you have to,

21:44  
I don't know what you have to do. I mean, do you believe that? All these things are already in you? Or can you build

21:54  
it's certainly a muscle you have to build. Because there's a lot of learning and experiential to understand how these things work. There's no question that intestinal fortitude, I think it's in everybody, if they find that thing that drives them. So you really question What do you want? Do you want to grow up? It's like, you know, if you know, that could be your driver, or if you don't know, that's why, you know, people sort of have a stasis or whatever the case may be, or you've mentioned, again, if it's a family issue, and something triggers you to go, Okay, I've just got to do this

22:28  
for my family, or I get this idea. So I think everyone has it, it just matter whether it's triggered or not.

22:35  
Gotcha, okay. Okay. I've, I've always wanted to be entrepreneur, ever since I was a child, I wanted to be one.

22:45  
I just had this idea of,

22:49  
I didn't want to work for anyone. I was like, I wanted to be the boss. You know, I want to try out my ideas and see if they work.

22:58  
It's something very cool to be able to do without any question. It's really a cool way. And when I have worked for others, it's not that it hasn't gone well. It's just not been great. Because it's like, oh, no, no, I'm not gonna give you my opinion. That means that all we're doing

23:13  
is like, No, you don't understand. You give us opinion. We don't listen to it, we do what we want to do, because we're the boss. And go Oh, right. That's why I like being the boss.

23:24  
No, I guess that's why I kind of liked audit so much, because I was kind of the boss like, no, go against my opinion, right? Like, we can have a discussion about it. And you know, we can we can come to a conclusion. But at the end of the day, my opinion overrides anything that you're taught, right? Especially when you're when you're backing it up with that.

23:47  
Oh, facts really get in the way. Yeah.

23:51  
So um, you kind of touched on a little bit where you did focus groups and things like that, you know, what else, you know, helped you build this, this this next career?

24:03  
It's understanding

24:07  
really comes down to and it's what I would do the consultant of the consulting I'm doing now. It's understanding people to the extent of that, all these people drive all these all these pieces at the end of the day, let's use health IT, particularly, its health. And so the ultimate user, our users are people. And it's understanding that side blends people's not just the patient. It's an entire ecosystem of stakeholders. So you've got the patient, you've got a caregiver, you've got a nurse, you got a clinician, you got a doctor, you've got lab techs, you've got a massive number of people in there. Each one can provide your Wilbury the consulting details, but each one itself can be a problem, in that it's a chain and either weakest and your team's only as strong as the weakest link. And if you have somebody in the system that doesn't understand not on board, whatever the case may be or not

25:00  
Part of it, it's not going to work. And when using technology, unless all those pieces are aligned, it's not going to work. So in terms of So to your question in terms of film and TV, the one thing that did is make me really understand people motivations.

25:18  
What would work, what doesn't work in terms of all those, all those elements because of my job, if I didn't get a high rating on TV, or if I didn't get a certain milestone in the TV theatres, or my commercial didn't do X, or the music show didn't do why I didn't get to have a job again, no one's gonna hire me to produce or do the pieces.

25:42  
So it was really to get that understanding and really make sure to learn how to fine tune and deal with that people sided to ensure good health it led to technologies used.

25:54  
Do you find that?

25:58  
Because I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I have my first podcast with business, brain versus tech brain, because like, I can do the business, I can do the tech side. And do you find that working with tech people?

26:15  
It's very different from working for from Doc with doctors and nurses and things like that. And who gives you the most pushback?

26:27  
That's a very good question. And to your point, it is a very different mindset when he's talking to the IT department, versus the marketing department versus the C suite versus the users.

26:39  
As they said, The example I said as well, tech departments as well, they're using it wrong. It doesn't work that way. And so a lot of the work that I've done, even as a vendor, when I'm selling a product is almost being a universal translator to translate what one person is saying, you know, he said, people separated by common language, even though using the same language, they meant different things. So it's understanding all those pieces. And to your earlier question, in terms of the, with the film business helped me do this, when you putting the film together, you have different departments and doing, you know, lots of responsibilities on those pieces, and highly amazingly talented people, all with strong egos. And my job was to put this machine together and making sure I was talking together and see that university, that same vision. And it's really the same thing in terms of the business side, in terms of health, it isn't, it's to understand the tech department and be able to explain to them what the needs are, and to work with them. And it's simply with the docs, they have their own perspective, their own needs. And to have the, it's gaining the confidence of everybody that I could look out and understand what their particular needs are, and we'll get them addressed.

27:52  
And that's the value of the focus groups is because it's a, it's a demonstration. And, you know, this is what we're doing. But it's also really to test those hypotheses. We had all these various discussions and put all together, this is what comes out. Let's now test it to see if it works.

28:09  
At least possible stages to save money, because you don't go too far along in anything that you're building. And so this way allows you to fine tune as you go forward.

28:20  
Gotcha. No, I asked that question. Because, you know, I have a fight with my business side, I'm a tech side, and I know how tech people can be. Yeah, you know, my business side, you know, I'm bubbly and friendly. I'm cool. You know, I'm gonna get my money, you know, because I'm naturally an introvert. And people are shocked when I tell them that. And then, you know, the tech side, like, I don't want to deal with the people side, you know, I could get behind the computer all day and just focus. And I'm good with that. And, you know, that's what I classify business versus Yeah, so it's a struggle.

28:58  
It is a struggle between both sides, because of the tech side, you want to get something else you wanna get something perfect. The business side is we want to go good enough.

29:08  
If you want to get to a point, you want to get out, you want to get earning revenue from whatever you're doing, the tech guy is going well, no, it's not perfect yet. And it never will be tech, no tech perspective. So it is important. So the fact you've got those two sides is very valuable. So you can actually talk to others. You can talk to the tech oriented people in the business people and know what the motivations are, and find ways of making it work together. It's when you don't understand you have those two different groups that you run into difficulties and a lot of friction.

29:38  
Gotcha. Because me and my friend was having a discussion today about podcasting and I'm telling him I don't really care about that, you know, he was like, I don't understand why you don't care and I'm going to explain to him that we had this conversation and I'm gonna tell him that's my that's my business. I talking I want to put it out there. I want it quick, fast and easy. It needs to get done. And you're thinking

30:00  
What's your Anna analytical side?

30:03  
You're trying to be calculating? So?

30:07  
Yeah. Okay.

30:09  
From that point, and then you get to the stage. Okay, what's the marginal improvement? Let's say you took the tech sides. Okay, we're gonna spend more time to do whatever.

30:19  
What's the what's the additional value you get in the product? When you go out there?

30:26  
In terms of is it worth, you know, are you getting getting a 10 times increase in value to what you've created? Or is it a 10% increase in value? 10 times that's worth spending a little time. That's 10% It may not be worthwhile compared to what you got you want to be doing.

30:44  
You're right. You're right. And that's that's the biggest side talking because exactly thing has a metric, you know, a KPI number. So I will tell him that too.

30:56  
What are some of the positives and the negatives of your of your new career? Well, the positives are

31:05  
what I enjoyed about

31:08  
the arrogance of being a film, TV producer. And I remember the first film, I went to the first premiere, and on the back of the audience, and I asked my partner said, Well, what's going to happen? He said, it's not too sure. But I don't think we're going to get hurt, which I thought was a good thing. And so it's been joking. So the film opens up, curtain opens up and an opening in the film opens up with a silly little fun little joke, a visual joke in the audience laughed. When we crap.

31:39  
Something I was involved in the writing and somebody was involved in putting together another film and spent all those years putting it all together, we put a bunch of people in a room 1000 people in a room. And I've now have made them laugh.

31:52  
And the film went up and down. And he laughed and cried and everything else. And it was a really powerful feeling to sort of have that ability to do so.

32:02  
So then healthy teepees came around.

32:06  
And it was like I said, that phone call that I mentioned, we said I helped help save a life using the technology. And then went, I said, How can I deal with the sort of Detroit thing of, you know, the film and TV side, when there's real people here. And what in the response of God to our technology was similar, though, it was like, Oh, this is great, or we love this, or we really wanted and it was like, wow, it's it really is that intrinsic, you're actually helping somebody. And it's not just a very trite thing, it's actually it's a very visceral, you actually help, you know, helping save a life is was huge, but even improve their life, or they left or they're able to do something they weren't able to do before. As a result of these, the technology is a real powerful driver. It also opened up my world to a world that never had before. So terms of positives, the insanity of having seven patents, you got to be kidding me. Look, anyone who knows me looks at you got to be kidding, he's got seven patents. But it's also I've had the honor of where I did a tremendous amount of work with the military. So work the Veterans Administration, Department of Defense, I've spoken on Capitol Hill, to congressional committees, if keynoted all over the world, which wouldn't have happened otherwise. So it's really cool and met incredible people.

33:26  
And so changed, my whole perspective of my vital world was opened up dramatically to a whole new world of people thought thoughts and, you know, community. So it was terrific. The negatives are, almost take, just take the mirror image of all those pieces, it's great, but it meant as time went on, leaving one world going to another, and those difficulties of transition, those difficulties are the sacrifices you have to make to get to where it is because they aren't easy. And there's no guarantee of success. And you never know which direction it's gonna go in. And it's, and it's also sort of seeing the, you know, for example, with health care, you're seeing the business side of healthcare, not the healthcare side of healthcare. And this is the business user to go to the head shaker and how decisions are made. That may not necessarily be for the benefit of the patients, and you sort of go But why, how,

34:26  
and everything else. So it's a whole other world. And the good and the bad, like I got it very much involved with government, govern relations and governance. And as I mentioned, spend a lot of time in Washington dealing with with bills to try to pass and change legislation. And you see a lot of the good that's happened, but also you see the machinations on the political system.

34:48  
So it's kind of like, oh, you see, you see the good and the bad of, of everything that's out there. And so you celebrate the good you sort of get disappointed with maybe the stuff that's less good. But at the end of the day,

35:00  
It's really been a negative, he's just it is that intestinal fortitude, you need to go on to build what you want to build, because you're going to be faced with a tremendous amount of negativity to start with.

35:11  
The nssr told many people, the good news is, the more negative people are to your idea, the more likely you're onto something. But you need to work through that to get to the other side.

35:26  
Good, okay, I can I can agree with that. I can agree with that. And my sister is in healthcare. So I really, I'm deep in it, I deepen it, I understand the nuances. Like I said, I used to audit a Obamacare health plan, though, I used to hear horrible stories from that.

35:44  
So I'm very well aware of the business versus you know, when you're deep in it, sigh.

35:51  
Um,

35:53  
you kind of touched on a little bit when we talked about, you know, the truth of being an entrepreneur. But what traits do you think would be good for this career?

36:03  
Well, for any entrepreneur, fundamentally, it's got to, you've got to start with a vision, you need to know what is what is the problem, you're going to what is the problem you are trying to solve? So it's good to have an idea. But the idea has to have, you know, this is my business side, my MBA piece comes through, you need an ROI. Like you've identified a problem. And you want to solve that problem. What is the value of that problem to somebody?

36:35  
And it's not easy to it's not easy thing. You said, Well, this will make this easier. Yes. But there's somebody what do they want that easier? It's okay, you want that easier, but to the your target market want that easier. So it really is be able to look at your vision, and then really articulate that value, and that vision that you have for that.

36:54  
And that happen at the same time having the passion to push through.

36:59  
And so you know, key trade is definitely having a vision, it's having that passion, you need that passion, you need to have that a bit, then very difficult ability to not disregard the negativity, but to take the negativity and see how you can build on it to say, okay, look, all these people are saying this, they don't see what I see. Maybe you should take those negative pieces and incorporate that in terms of that vision. So you're actually be able to articulate it better.

37:27  
So it's working with me, that's a challenge out there. And you need to be able to look at that and turn it around to say, okay, how can I use that?

37:38  
I'm pretty sure people thought the man that invented the pet rock was crazy. Yeah, but he's running to the bank.

37:48  
Well, exactly. And he just go, and though there's some things out there that are just plain goofy, I,

37:55  
I would suggest he didn't have a vision for pet rock, he just go on to something and just took and ran.

38:01  
I mean, I there's this app that I have on my phone, and it gives local news. And then it gives like worldwide news and stuff. And it's like a news aggregator. And a lot of stuff on there, I guess. Because I have, you know, the algorithm, the stuff I look at, and he probably listens to is entrepreneurship type stuff. And some of the stuff that people were making money on is crazy.

38:29  
But and I'm like, What am I doing with my life?

38:33  
Oh, my Well, my favorite. Now this goes back to a classified section. So there used to be a newspaper called used to be a thing called Reader's Digest the river little magazine. And somebody put it so you'd appreciate this as an auditor. So somebody put an ad in there that said, last chance to send in your $5 peal box.

38:55  
Over a million people sent in $5.

39:00  
And the IRS and FCC was sued, tried to sue him for fraud, but they couldn't because he didn't offer anything. All he said was last chest and fiber. There's nothing fraudulent about it. $5 million.

39:16  
You're just sort of crazy yet. I think I remember that story. I think I think I remember that story. And it was like, you know, it was like something about a space in stuff and you just used it in the money and yeah, your fan? Yeah.

39:34  
So there's no, there's a lot. So in terms of I don't know if I call that an entrepreneurship, I think that's just brilliant.

39:41  
is definitely really because I just sit there. And my saying is because I'll often the article to my friend, my sister. And I'll say but you wrote though, right?

39:56  
And that's my thing when I send the article and they're like, Oh my god.

40:00  
Are you are you? What are we doing? Well, exactly. Well, there's a

40:06  
PT Barnum with who Barnum and Bailey Circus. So he was a big Hawker, the turn of the century,

40:11  
real showman, and his con one of many comments he made, one of them was nobody went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public.

40:23  
I can do that's in the pet rock category in the $5 category, I can agree with that. And I actually got a chance to go to the circus before it closed down. I was actually an adult when I went to I wasn't a child. I was a whole adult when I went. And I took my boyfriend at the time because he had never went, I was like, let's go to the circuit.

40:45  
Yeah.

40:48  
So yeah, showing our age. But yeah, it exists. It doesn't mean I don't think the circuit doesn't exist at all.

40:55  
There's a form of it that has changed. Yeah, it exists. Okay, guys, but it's not like, not constantly other kind of hate when I grew up. Gotcha. Yeah. Which is, which is not a bad thing to be some of them just

41:11  
as humane as I said they were. I think it's a good thing. They're not? Definitely, but definitely, um, last question. What, what are some last tips and tricks? What can you tell someone that wants to make the leap on switching their career? Really, I guess I bury the lead I touched on earlier is, you know, it's great. You know, I think it's great to have ideas in the vision and terms you want to do something. The difficult thing is, is it actually a business? Or is an idea masquerading as a business? So you have to sort of think through what is you want to do, I can't, you know, encourage everybody is going to do so. And really untested, and talk to people research run around hasn't been done before has not been done before.

41:59  
Really being very clear. And is that know what the ROI is? What is the value? are you solving a problem? Is the first second as mentioned, first question, are you solving a problem that somebody wants solved?

42:10  
When you're already solving problems somebody needs solve, but they don't know it's a problem. You start to look through these various pieces in order to really get a sense of where you're at with it all. And as I said, it was and it wasn't facetious. It was, once you've sort of got that articulated, and you start on that journey, the more vehement people tell you, it's crazy, the more likely it's a good idea.

42:35  
And then afterwards, you're going to deal with when the idea does have success. Is everyone saying, Well, you know, I told you this, or I gave you this part of the idea, or it's a whole other set of problems.

42:48  
You can rub it in their faces and brag all about it.

42:56  
All right. How are you? Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Tell us where to find you. Well, I so much enjoyed that. I love the title. Like I think you just I very much appreciate honored to be part of this to be asked to be part of your podcast. So for those who want to track me down, it is h Rosen, H Roc n at NOVA picks.com is in ova Pei x.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn and love to connect, always looking to meet more people and new people. And I'm so thrilled that we didn't just meet all these. All right, thank you so much, Howard, for coming on the show. Thanks for subscribe me off. I haven't subscribed. Subscribe today. We have about another 10 episodes coming up.

43:48  
People People want to share their stories. So we're hot. We're hot.

43:54  
That's great. Well, he's this terrific