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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: frederic none bernard |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0021 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0021_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504453 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1912-08-07 |
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birth_year: 1912.0 |
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place_of_birth: chernivtsi |
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country: romani |
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experience_group: survivor,resistance |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: korolówka |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: east |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.391.1 |
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revisit: checked |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: frederic none bernard |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0021 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0021_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504453 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1912-08-07 |
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birth_year: 1912.0 |
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place_of_birth: chernivtsi |
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country: romani |
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experience_group: survivor,resistance |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: korolówka |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: east |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.391.1 |
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revisit: checked |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2">I'd like to begin by asking you your complete name.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: It's uh Frederic L. Bernard.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="7">Q: And where and when were you born?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: I was born on August the 7th, 1912 in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>, the capital of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span>.</sentence><sentence id="10">It was, until 1918, part of the old Austrian-Hungarian monarchy.</sentence><sentence id="11">In 1918, it was uh given to to ...by the powers to <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>; and in 1940 it was occu...on uh June the 28th, 1940, it was occupied by the Soviets as compensation for twenty years of Romanian occupation of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bessarabia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="12">It hadn't been for over two hundred years part of any <span class="REGION">Russian empire</span>.</sentence><sentence id="13">It...1 would say it was occupied as a result of the Stalin-Hitler pact, and uh the same criteria should apply to it as they applied today to the <span class="REGION">Baltic States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="14">Uh in these forty years, the Russians have been able to change demographically the population of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="15">Interesting is the fact that they have attracted a large group of Russian Jews to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="23">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="24">We'll come to some of these stories.</sentence><sentence id="25">I would like to ask you to describe your childhood before World War IL, when you were growing up.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="29">A: Uh, [ uh...as I told you I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="30">The name of the <span class="DLF">street</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> was Marshal Fosh number 9.</sentence><sentence id="31">Uh it...my father was uh the chief clerk in a large <span class="BUILDING">lawyer's office</span>, Dr. Hodrover.</sentence><sentence id="32">He had the title of solicitator, which is not the same as a solicitor in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="33">It uh...he was uh...he did not speak Romanian.</sentence><sentence id="34">He spoke only German, and so naturally when the Romanian entered in 1918 he lost uh his qualifications, not knowing the Romanian language.</sentence><sentence id="35">As a solicitator, he had to write even not being a lawyer to plead in lower courts, minor cases, uh breach of contract for one.</sentence><sentence id="36">And his anti-Romanian attitude probably reflected itself also in our attitude in the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="37">Later going to <span class="BUILDING">high school</span>, the <span class="BUILDING">lycee</span>, in uh...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> he spoke __(ph).</sentence><sentence id="38">I had one sister uh uh who uh studied later with me at the <span class="BUILDING">University</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>.</sentence><sentence id="39">She studied <span class="BUILDING">pharmacy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="40">I studied medicine.</sentence><sentence id="41">I uh took the baccalaureate--or the uh matura--in 1930 and uh uh my sister and I went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, to matriculate at the <span class="BUILDING">German University</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>.</sentence><sentence id="42">In that time, Pra...<span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> had two uh <span class="BUILDING">universities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="43">Two medical...a German and and a uh Czech.</sentence><sentence id="44">We...we matriculated at the <span class="BUILDING">German university</span>.</sentence><sentence id="45">She went to the uh <span class="BUILDING">pharmacy department</span>.</sentence><sentence id="46">I went to the <span class="BUILDING">medical school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="47">It was the Karls (ph) University in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>.</sentence><sentence id="48">It doesn't exist today anymore.</sentence><sentence id="49">Today there is only one, Czech.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="71">Q: And your mother.</sentence><sentence id="72">Could you tell me a little about your mother?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="75">A: My mother came from the southern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span>.</sentence><sentence id="76"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Cimpulung</span>, she uh they were married.</sentence><sentence id="77">My mother had uh studied the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">piano</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span>.</sentence><sentence id="78">She uh she uh finished the <span class="BUILDING">conservatory</span> I</sentence><sentence id="80">think at the age of eighteen.</sentence><sentence id="81">She was a fine pianist, excellent uh uh accompanist.</sentence><sentence id="82">As a matter of fact, she accompanied uh uh a well-known singer by the name of Selma Kurtz in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> uh as an accompanist.</sentence><sentence id="83">She had a fine technique but uh marrying my father, this uh really brought an end to her music career.</sentence><sentence id="84">She played for us and uh instilled in us the the love for music, especially since her specialty was uh uh lied[er].</sentence><sentence id="85">You know, I was familiar with lied[er] as a small child.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="99">Q: Could you describe the life for Jews at that time in your childhood?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="101">A: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> had a very active uh uh Jewish community, culturally.</sentence><sentence id="102">Uh the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jewish community</span> had produced quite a few remarkable people in Jewish uh uh cultural, in Jewish cultural history.</sentence><sentence id="103">Itzic Manger (ph) is one of the uh these figures and the well-known and famous, uh fablist (ph) is this could be the term which I could use...he was uh...I just missed the name...uh, well I'll come back.</sentence><sentence id="104">Eliezer Steinbe...Steinberg (ph).</sentence><sentence id="105">Eliezer Steinberg wrote beautiful fables fables in Yiddish.</sentence><sentence id="106">It uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> had a permanent <span class="BUILDING">Yiddish theater</span>, uh <span class="BUILDING">Goldfaden_ Theater</span>.</sentence><sentence id="107">It had a permanent uh German and Romanian theater, <span class="BUILDING">national theater</span> they called it, which was a replica of the uh of the opera from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span>.</sentence><sentence id="108">Beautiful <span class="BUILDING">building</span>.</sentence><sentence id="109">Excellent acoustics and uh uh there were uh so-called part-time German, uh Ukrainian and and uh Polish uh cultural organizations.</sentence><sentence id="110">Uh in...as soon as Hitler came to power in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, things changed.</sentence><sentence id="111">The Germans...we had a large German population in...out in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">suburbs</span>, especially which were uh uh...not Schwabian...1 don't know from where they uh really came...and uh their political uh attitude changed.</sentence><sentence id="112">Hitler and his propaganda ministry were quite active and the same happened in the other <span class="REGION">German colonies</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="113"><span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> had...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bessarabia</span> there were <span class="REGION">Schwabian colonies</span> which were for a long time already that they came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bessarabia</span> under Katherine the Second.</sentence><sentence id="114">Uh then <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span> had uh Saxon, especially in the <span class="REGION">southern part</span> <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Fagaras-Brasov</span>.</sentence><sentence id="115">Uh the Banat had also Schwab Germans and uh naturally as their attitude toward Jews and uh and uh as apparent of the new National Socialist inclination of the German people, uh uh fell on a very fertile ground.</sentence><sentence id="116">Uh in the late "30's the uh Romanian government fell under the influence of the Iron Guard, first Cuza- Goga, then government, then the Iron...then the Iron Guard had a tremendous influence.</sentence><sentence id="117">It was very anti-Semitic.</sentence><sentence id="118">It was a chauvinistic movement which aligned itself uh intimately with Hitler under Marshall Antonescu to a degree where they took part in the anti-Soviet campaign with uh two armies.</sentence><sentence id="119">So did the Hungarians and uh voluntary uh the voluntary uh divisions from <span class="COUNTRY">Spain</span> and from <span class="COUNTRY">France</span>, does not matter (ph), and from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="139">Q: And from the time you graduated <span class="BUILDING">medical school</span> in 1930?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="141">A: No, no, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="142">1936.</sentence><sentence id="143">Thirt...I started <span class="BUILDING">medical school</span> in 1930.</sentence><sentence id="144">I left <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> in 1933.</sentence><sentence id="145">I was for three years there, a student at the <span class="BUILDING">German University</span>.</sentence><sentence id="146">I uh...the uh students at the <span class="BUILDING">German University</span> were between seventy and eighty percent Nazis and uh their attitude toward the Jews was well known.</sentence><sentence id="147">I went from there to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.580032" long="7.749989">Strasbourg</span> , <span class="COUNTRY">France</span>, but uh not being...uh <span class="COUNTRY">France</span> having a different system of studies which was completely different from the German system...the French medical studies were there yearly studies and you have to pass every</sentence><sentence id="149">year an exam in order to be admitted to the next year.</sentence><sentence id="150">The <span class="BUILDING">German University</span> had a a uh different _ (ph).</sentence><sentence id="151">You had three riguroza (ph) of which every five <span class="BUILDING">semesters</span> you have to finish, so uh they didn't recognize my third year.</sentence><sentence id="152">In order not to loose it I went later via <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Basel</span> uh Swiss, <span class="COUNTRY">Switzerland</span> to <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> because I found out that <span class="COUNTRY">Italy</span> had had reciprocity with <span class="COUNTRY">England</span>.</sentence><sentence id="153">Reciprocity lasted until 1940.</sentence><sentence id="154">The uh the uh Italian system...uh well you had to pass a special exam in order to be admitted to the to the British Medical Council.</sentence><sentence id="155">Eur...uh Europe in that time was full of people who wanted to leave Europe because of Hitler.</sentence><sentence id="156">Many succeeded.</sentence><sentence id="157">Many did not.</sentence><sentence id="158">I was admitted to the <span class="BUILDING">British Medical Council</span>.</sentence><sentence id="159">I secured a landing permit for <span class="COUNTRY">Australia</span> and in the end I ended up in spite of everything in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="181">Q: Tell me what happened to you at that time, once the Nazis came?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="183">A: In uh in uh...I found myself...the Nazis attacked <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span> on uh June the 22nd, 1941.</sentence><sentence id="184">Uh I was uh in that time working under the Russians...oh yes...I forgot to tell you that in 1940 I uh, June the 22nd...1...23rd, 1940...I married Gusti Klier, also born uh also living in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> and I had returned from the <span class="REGION">Transylvania</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Cluj</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> to get married.</sentence><sentence id="185">I uh was an assis...a voluntary assistant at that time at the Ear, Nose and Throat Department of the <span class="BUILDING">University</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Cluj</span> and I was supposed to come back.</sentence><sentence id="186">My uh then father-in-law asked me to stay with him after the marriage for a week.</sentence><sentence id="187">I uh...and this was Sunday, the 23rd.</sentence><sentence id="188">On Friday, the 28th the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Russian tanks</span> entered uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> and my return could not take place anymore.</sentence><sentence id="189">I worked as a uh ear, nose and throat man in the <span class="BUILDING">First City Hospital</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> and at the <span class="BUILDING">Second Polyclinic</span>, also in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="190">I had two, two and a half jobs as they called staukas (ph).</sentence><sentence id="191">Uh still not enough to make a good...a living.</sentence><sentence id="192">Conditions were tight, very lousy in <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span> and uh and uh one really had a hard time.</sentence><sentence id="193">My wife also worked in that time as the head of a cooperative and uh with her and my salaries we could barely uh make ends meet.</sentence><sentence id="194">At the...as soon as Hitler attacked <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span> uh on June the 22nd, 1941, three months later I found myself in the uh western part of the <span class="COUNTRY">Ukrainia</span> uh uh east of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kamenets Podolski</span> and I tried to make my way back to to uh...and we ended up in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kamenets Podolski</span> in the <span class="REGION">western Ukraine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="195">There we met...uh we were a group of three physicians.</sentence><sentence id="196">Uh Gabriel Zinreich, my friend and his wife and his father-in-law.</sentence><sentence id="197">Uh Frank uh uh...I think his first name was Solomom Frank and from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Brasov</span> both his...were from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span> whose uh native tongue was Hungarian.</sentence><sentence id="198">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kamenets Podolski</span> we found Hungarian uh troops and again one of these uh uh seldom happened really a miracle.</sentence><sentence id="199">Uh I uh...in 1936...and I'm coming back, uh going back...in 1936 after I graduated I returned to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> and went from there to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> to take the license in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="200">My parents lived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="201">My mother was still alive.</sentence><sentence id="202">I wasn't married in that time and uh I passed the uh the exam which was not quite easy.</sentence><sentence id="203">It is the...they called it the notification (ph) and I got an off...an offer to have a locum tenence (ph) near the <span class="DLF">Hungarian border</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span> and uh uh I earned quite a lot.</sentence><sentence id="204">I wasn't uh I wasn't married and I ate in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> of a Hungarian priest whose wife came from uh uh the northern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="205">And while being in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kamenets Podolski</span>...now I'm coming back...now again "41...we met somebody who was from...a sergeant picked us up from the Hungarian army and he happened to be from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Salonta</span>, <span class="REGION">Szatmar area</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="206">He uh he apparently knew about what's going to happen to the Jews in in uh in the <span class="COUNTRY">Ukrainia</span></sentence><sentence id="208">because uh when I established that I knew somebody from from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Salonta</span> where he was from...it turned out that the mother-in-law of the priest in whose <span class="BUILDING">house</span> J ate in in a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transylvania</span> by the name of uh of uh Beius, Ujlak...uh he said this is no <span class="NPIP">place</span> for you to be.</sentence><sentence id="209">You have to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Hungary</span>.</sentence><sentence id="210">Jews in <span class="COUNTRY">Hungary</span> in that time, 1941, were still alright.</sentence><sentence id="211">We had...Gabriel Zinreich, my friend, had a Hungarian-speaking wife and he put us on a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">truck</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Munkacs</span>.</sentence><sentence id="212">But in order to get to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Munkacs</span> we had to pass through <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, through the General Government, and it happens that when we passed the <span class="DLF">bridge</span> uh over the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Horodienka</span> we got picked up by Hungarian gendarmerie, uh beaten and uh we ended up later in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, in a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="213">And here started our Polish episode which had to...which turned out to last the whole war and ended up in 1944 where I joined the Polish army.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="247">Q: Tell me about the time in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="249">A: The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> where we ended...where we lived was a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="250">It, it was fascinating to me.</sentence><sentence id="251">I had never seen a uh a uh an <span class="BUILDING">establishment</span> like <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="252">It was a small <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="253">It had no <span class="BUILDING">railroad station</span>.</sentence><sentence id="254">It had no sanitation.</sentence><sentence id="255">It had no water supply.</sentence><sentence id="256">It had no electricity.</sentence><sentence id="257">It uh...you had a wasser treiger (ph) who had to bring the water to the people who paid him.</sentence><sentence id="258">You uh...you uh...there were approximately sixteen to eighteen hundred Jews in that little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="259">It was a natural <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="260">It was like a stetl from the time of, which Shalom Alehem described.</sentence><sentence id="261">I have never been in such a <span class="BUILDING">stetl</span> and uh for me it was really fascinating to to to to study it.</sentence><sentence id="262">It uh...one doctor.</sentence><sentence id="263">One Jewish doctor.</sentence><sentence id="264">One Jewish dentist.</sentence><sentence id="265">The doctor was Dr. Teibers (ph) and everyone had a sufix in Yiddish.</sentence><sentence id="266">Dr. Teibers was called Tiberhazel.</sentence><sentence id="267">The dentist was called...his name was Gunie Wiesenthal...was called Gunie Pipick (ph) because he was uh heavy.</sentence><sentence id="268">Uh the Jews lived around a remick (ph), the <span class="DLF">ring platz</span> (ph) in the center of which was a <span class="BUILDING">pharmacy</span>.</sentence><sentence id="269">Magister Schwartz was the the pharmacist.</sentence><sentence id="270">These were attached <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> but the the Germans didn't really need to establish a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="271">There was a natural <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> right there.</sentence><sentence id="272">They just established that no gentile had...be permitted to come into that <span class="REGION">area</span> and no Jew is permitted to go out.</sentence><sentence id="273">It was difficult to reinforce this because the borders of that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> were quite uh loose, so it happened that these Jews were able to communicate with the farmers.</sentence><sentence id="274">Having done commerce and business with them for so many years, they knew each other and uh life was naturally easier than in the bigger <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="275">Uh we had problems with food.</sentence><sentence id="276">I saw immediately that uh uh I have to to do something to uh to establish a source of food and uh I went to that Dr. Teibers if he could direct to me his uh overflow.</sentence><sentence id="277">He said there is really no overflow at this time, and you know, uh in that time you didn't pay for a visit.</sentence><sentence id="278">You, you...the farmers or the people who came for medical consultation paid in uh in food.</sentence><sentence id="279">So...but he said...and he gave this advice.</sentence><sentence id="280">If you get the permission to practice <span class="NPIP">outside</span> the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in the little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span>, because there are no doctors around here, uh we...you you could uh you could survive.</sentence><sentence id="281">I would like to mention here the attitude of the Jews in that little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="282">When I came in, the Russian had left.</sentence><sentence id="283">The Russian had been there, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span>, since the seventeenth of uh September of uh 1939 when they entered the eastern part of <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, and there was...the attitude of the Jews was not uh friendly towards the Soviets.</sentence><sentence id="284">Many Jews had been deported.</sentence><sentence id="285">So were many Ukrainian who had been deported, especially Ukrainians who</sentence><sentence id="287">belonged to the National uh Nationalistic organization.</sentence><sentence id="288">Ukrainians were very uh very nationalistic in their political aspiration and as soon as Hitler attacked <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span>, the <span class="REGION">area</span> was flooded with uh leaflets in which uh they uh were proclaiming that the time had come to establish the uh Volna Ukraina (ph), that means the free Ukraine.</sentence><sentence id="289">The leaflets were signed by a Ukrainian uh uh uh leader by the name of Stephan Bandera who established a group of people later who uh carried his name and they were called Banderovitsis (ph).</sentence><sentence id="290">Very anti- Semitic and very anti-Soviet.</sentence><sentence id="291">They said the time has come to proclaim the free Ukraina, to kill the Jews and the Communists.</sentence><sentence id="292">The uh...I didn't know how to go about getting the permission and I was directed to what the chief of the Judenrat , the Judenaltester who was a man by the name of Max Glickstern, Glickstern.</sentence><sentence id="293">Max Glickstern was married to a uh woman from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span> by the name of Hilda, Hilda uh Zinreich and was a cousin of the, my friend Gabriel Zinreich, so I had access to him.</sentence><sentence id="294">He was a businessman who never did very well, but when he came to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> he was already nominated to be the elder of the Judenrat .</sentence><sentence id="295">Uh he uh lived like a king really.</sentence><sentence id="296">He had power.</sentence><sentence id="297">Also, being a small <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span> but the powers uh con...uh con...confer power to a human being and his attitude changes completely and uh it did on uh Max too.</sentence><sentence id="298">While I would have to say that in many instances he behaved very honestly, still people who had money to bribe and the Judenrat was bribable to a very, very large degree.</sentence><sentence id="299">So was everybody.</sentence><sentence id="300">Uh there's...uh belonging to their admini....to the so-called Jewish administration uh he gave me a uh a...he got for me letter signed by a priest in a small community uh outside <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span> by the name of Bicewslote (ph).</sentence><sentence id="301">He directed me.</sentence><sentence id="302">He sent letters to the uh lecaspoiutove (ph) which was the Kreisars (ph) of the of the Ukrainian physician who was in charge of the <span class="REGION">area</span>, and he gave me permission to the...uh to practice there.</sentence><sentence id="303">The letter from the priest was signed by a priest by the name of Stamosese (ph) who was the leader of the Ukrainian organization.</sentence><sentence id="304">And we were brought by a uh uh man whose family later survived the war by the name of Sturmer who was a person who had intimate contact with the farmers around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span>.</sentence><sentence id="305">He still managed to keep a couple of horses hidden in someplace outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and he brought us to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Benceslote</span> (ph) and now started for me a a very interesting uh uh practice.</sentence><sentence id="306">It lasted no more than six months because the <span class="REGION">area</span> was later declared in May uh "42 Judenrein .</sentence><sentence id="307">When we came there uh he brought us to the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> of the man by the name of Samy Reinstein who had a who had a <span class="BUILDING">dwelling</span> where he had what they call it propinatzia.</sentence><sentence id="308">He sold liquor, schnaps and uh small uh items to the farmers.</sentence><sentence id="309">Right now he didn't have any more that <span class="BUILDING">store</span> and he was able to rent us a few uh a couple of <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span>.</sentence><sentence id="310">Uh the next day he he told me I should go to introduce myself to the priest being the leader of the community.</sentence><sentence id="311">Father Shamosheshin (ph) spoke some German.</sentence><sentence id="312">He was a lean mean in his early fifties or late forties.</sentence><sentence id="313">He uh uh was very non- committal.</sentence><sentence id="314">He said for twenty-five years I had asked the Polish government uh to send a physician here.</sentence><sentence id="315">Uh the Germans had to come finally to make it possible for Benceslote to have a physician.</sentence><sentence id="316"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Benceslote</span> was also known that it had a large <span class="DLF">estate</span> belong to an absentee land-lord by the name of Count Sapira (ph).</sentence><sentence id="317">The count...the estate had been uh taken over by the Soviets and transformed into a <span class="DLF">state farm</span> and the Germans left it the same way.</sentence><sentence id="318">A week later an event occurred which uh which was important.</sentence><sentence id="319">Somebody knocked at the <span class="DLF">window</span> of our of our <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> and uh when...Mr. Reinstein, Samy Reinstein opened the <span class="DLF">door</span>, he said Doctor, it's for you.</sentence><sentence id="320">They want you to come immediately to the priest.</sentence><sentence id="321">The wife of the priest</sentence><sentence id="323">is sick.</sentence><sentence id="324">I, having his assurances that this, the call was genuine because I was afraid to go in the middle of the night, I uh...the man who who had come for me was a militant (ph) from the militia, Ukrainian militia.</sentence><sentence id="325">I found the uh the wife of the priest in severe upper abdominal pain.</sentence><sentence id="326">She had a gall bladder attack, gall stones.</sentence><sentence id="327">She said she had it for many years.</sentence><sentence id="328">She was in agony.</sentence><sentence id="329">She was perspired, begging to help her and so was her husband, uh the priest.</sentence><sentence id="330">I had one ampule (ph) of a synthetic morphine opium (ph) preparation, , which I gave her and uh she promptly vomited as soon as I gave it to her, even before I thought it.</sentence><sentence id="331">But she fell asleep and uh I left her for a couple of hours and I came next morning.</sentence><sentence id="332">I found her in uh in uh the <span class="INT_SPACE">kitchen</span> cooking, full of enthusiasm.</sentence><sentence id="333">Doctor, you cured me.</sentence><sentence id="334">I said what do you mean.</sentence><sentence id="335">I was told the only cure for me was an operation and here I am free.</sentence><sentence id="336">I feel fine.</sentence><sentence id="337">It is possible that the injection had relieved the spasm and the stones had passed into the small intestine and uh and uh I really cured her. (</sentence><sentence id="338">laughter) As a result of it next Sunday as Samy Reinstein told me, the priest in <span class="BUILDING">church</span> in his sermon to the community said you can do what you want with our local Jews...there were twelve or fifteen Jewish families still in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Benceslote</span> (ph) but the Romanian doctor you shouldn't touch.</sentence><sentence id="339">And the term Romanian doctor remained with us for the whole time while I was in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="340">Uh a week later we were honored with a fat roasted duck sent by the priest with his thanks.</sentence><sentence id="341">Interesting.</sentence><sentence id="342">And a week later when I came to visit his wife, he was very friendly.</sentence><sentence id="343">Took me into the uh into the <span class="INT_SPACE">basement</span> uh and said I would like to show you something.</sentence><sentence id="344">He showed me a book published many years before.</sentence><sentence id="345">It was called Zolotaknina Hatmana Skoropatzkoro (ph), the Golden Book of the Hatman Skoropatzki.</sentence><sentence id="346">Skoropatzki was one of the hatmans who had fought in the early twenties during the civil war against the new Soviet power.</sentence><sentence id="347">The the group...the soldiers of hatman Skoropatzki were known to have performed, to have quite killed many Jews.</sentence><sentence id="348">Among the pictures in that book, he showed me a picture...he said that's me.</sentence><sentence id="349">Was a young man in military uniform with a C C on his uh collar.</sentence><sentence id="350">C C is S S...it's the...but it has nothing to be the German SS.</sentence><sentence id="351">He said it it it is <span class="BUILDING">Sichobeitselie Kovetz</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="352">Sich (ph) was the national fighting organization of the Ukrainian uh uh Nationalist uh movement and uh Father Shamosheshin was the leader in his community.</sentence><sentence id="353">His word meant law there.</sentence><sentence id="354">Whatever Father Shamosheshin said, went.</sentence><sentence id="355">Naturally, we were now somehow under the protection of Father Shamosheshin.</sentence><sentence id="356">A month later an event took place which really uh was a lucky incident.</sentence><sentence id="357">One night somebody rang the bell uh...rang the bell...knocked on my <span class="DLF">door</span>...no bell...knocked on the <span class="DLF">window</span>.</sentence><sentence id="358">It was, as it turned out, a Polish refugee who had...from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> who had tried in 1939 to to go by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> to <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="359">We were not far from the <span class="DLF">Romanian border</span>, some hundred and fifty kilometers, and his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> broke down near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bielce</span> (ph) and he couldn't...and before he could repair the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> the Soviets had uh marched in, had closed the <span class="DLF">border</span>, and his name was Zarenski or Zarubski.</sentence><sentence id="360">He was a young engineer from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="361">He said please come.</sentence><sentence id="362">My wife is dying.</sentence><sentence id="363">I came to his <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and I found her almost bled out.</sentence><sentence id="364">She had a vaginal bleeding.</sentence><sentence id="365">She had an incomplete abortion and what she needed was a little scraping.</sentence><sentence id="366">She was almost in coma.</sentence><sentence id="367">She she had a pulse of over 200.</sentence><sentence id="368">She...,there was no uh uh her blood pressure was extremely low.</sentence><sentence id="369">I I told him to get immediate some transportation to take her to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="370">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Borosow</span> (ph) it was the nearest <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, but there was also a <span class="BUILDING">railroad station</span>.</sentence><sentence id="371">I knew a couple of doctors...one Doctor un Rabinowitz (ph) and Dr. Rosenblatt (ph) who uh they are able to perform a uh a uh D&C. As soon as we brought her in they did the D&C. Uh</sentence><sentence id="373">she stopped bleeding.</sentence><sentence id="374">They kept her for three or four days in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> and uh I want you to know this was a time there weren't knowing the transfusions.</sentence><sentence id="375">There were no even transfusions.</sentence><sentence id="376">That <span class="INT_SPACE">operating room</span> had no oxygen.</sentence><sentence id="377">Nothing.</sentence><sentence id="378">No suction.</sentence><sentence id="379">Nothing, but it functioned.</sentence><sentence id="380">It was 19 uh 41, "42 now.</sentence><sentence id="381">It uh...he brought her <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and a week later he showed up in uh where I worked, embraced me and said Doctor, I don't know, I don't have the money to or how to pay you, but remember if the time will...I know you have a hard time...if circumstances will come that you will need help, come to me.</sentence><sentence id="382">I took it as a uh as an empty uh uh thank you and didn't pay too much attention, but it stayed, stayed in the back of my mind and really later it it uh uh was a lucky incident.</sentence><sentence id="383">When the <span class="REGION">area</span> was declared Judenrein we returned to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="384">Do you want to ask me something?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="525">Q: No.</sentence><sentence id="526">It's fine.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="529">A: It's alright?</sentence><sentence id="530">We returned to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and now a very hard life.</sentence><sentence id="531">Uh food.</sentence><sentence id="532">Food and during the summer of "42 we heard that this was the rumor that the of the Gestapo from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Stanislow</span> (ph) is around in the <span class="REGION">area</span> liquidating <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghettos</span>.</sentence><sentence id="533">That means aktion.</sentence><sentence id="534">We established a uh guard every <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="535">In that time I stayed in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> of a certain Aaron Spotheim, in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="536">Aaron Spotheim had a of : , that means how much.</sentence><sentence id="537">That means he was a bad man.</sentence><sentence id="538">He was really a...not a very friendly uh person.</sentence><sentence id="539">Uh the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> real...uh really didn't like him very much but he he uh let us in and so we were happy there and with his help when the aktion star...in the <span class="REGION">area</span> started, we we decided to build our own <span class="INT_SPACE">bunker</span> or our own front.</sentence><sentence id="540">Being uh what he was, , he said nobody should know it.</sentence><sentence id="541">I don't want anybody to come in to that, in to that uh <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> from our neighbors.</sentence><sentence id="542">So nobody really knew about our <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="543">I thought in that time that our <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> was a good <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="544">We had...you know, the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, around the were attached <span class="BUILDING">houses</span>.</sentence><sentence id="545">The <span class="BUILDING">house</span> attached to Mr. uh to Mr. Spotheim's <span class="BUILDING">house</span> had a smaller uh <span class="DLF">roof</span>.</sentence><sentence id="546">We decided to took the <span class="DLF">border</span> between two <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> to separate and create between the <span class="INT_SPACE">attics</span> as a <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="547">Later I...when I compared our <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> with the others, I felt it was probably the flimsiest <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> or <span class="INT_SPACE">bunker</span> which existed.</sentence><sentence id="548">It had only one positive thing.</sentence><sentence id="549">Nobody knew about it.</sentence><sentence id="550">I was witnessing...looking out from when the aktion took place and seeing in what ways they collected the people in to what they called the <span class="DLF">Umshagplatz</span> (ph) there in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, because because they had to take them, to take the Jews by large <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">lorries</span> to__, uh to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Borszczow</span> to to transport them by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> to uh...our <span class="REGION">area</span> went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">annihilation camp</span> in...oh my goodness, this gives me...1 don't remember it so...(pause)...anyway uh the way how they did it convinced me that...until then I was not really convinced that people were uh gassed.</sentence><sentence id="551">We heard about it.</sentence><sentence id="552">There were rumors but nobody knew for sure.</sentence><sentence id="553">It really didn't make sense.</sentence><sentence id="554">The whole plan of the annihilation of the Jews was conceived in such a diabolic way...having a Jewish Judenrat to collaborate, to fulfill the orders of the Germans because they had no way, no different way, no way out.</sentence><sentence id="555">Having installed the Jewish police and here is an element which I would like to mention.</sentence><sentence id="556">To a large degree the Jewish police was formed by former lawyers.</sentence><sentence id="557">They were so brutal.</sentence><sentence id="558">Their language was so crude.</sentence><sentence id="559">The way...how they uh how they behaved toward the population was so revolting that many times we asked ourselves, how come these educated people...and</sentence><sentence id="561">they...you had to consider them educated people to a large degree in comparison to the other people in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> who who were not educated, who didn't have any university schooling.</sentence><sentence id="562">It uh behaved in such a way...the circumstances created it.</sentence><sentence id="563">Example.</sentence><sentence id="564">During the summer of "42, seeing that I really had nobody to rely on...I'm a stranger...I'm a foreigner...who is going to help me?</sentence><sentence id="565">I had...we had no money.</sentence><sentence id="566">I started to explore the <span class="REGION">area</span> around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korulovka</span>.</sentence><sentence id="567">In one of these explorations I got into another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> by the name of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czortkow</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="568">It was a bigger <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="569">It had five thousand Jews there and the leader, the Judenaltester, was a lawyer by the name of Dr. Ebner (ph).</sentence><sentence id="570">You know in the old Austrian-Hungarian monarchy, every lawyer was called Herr doctor.</sentence><sentence id="571">I wanted what they called a psheapuska (ph).</sentence><sentence id="572">Pshepuska in Polish means a passirchein (ph), a permit, because I wanted to make my way or to find a way toward the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="573">The <span class="DLF">border</span> was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zaleszezyki</span>.</sentence><sentence id="574">It uh...when I uh sent a militia man in ann...to say if Dr. Ebner can receive me, I don't know what the militia if he understood very well, but I ended up really in front of Dr. Ebner who said, who are you?</sentence><sentence id="575">What do you want?Very hostile.</sentence><sentence id="576">I said, look.</sentence><sentence id="577">I'm a physician from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>, you know, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="578">As a matter of fact I was trying to...Czernowitz had a a deputy by the name of Meyer Ebner...I say...the same last name... said you probably must be related.</sentence><sentence id="579">He said, sure I'm related.</sentence><sentence id="580">What do you want?</sentence><sentence id="581">His attitude was...he called the militia man in and told him in Polish uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czortkow</span>.</sentence><sentence id="582">That means search him.</sentence><sentence id="583">I didn't know what...and he said uh see if he had, if he has grini papimna (ph).</sentence><sentence id="584">That means dollars.</sentence><sentence id="585">I didn't have any.</sentence><sentence id="586">He says what do you want?</sentence><sentence id="587">I say I would like a , a pshapuska (ph).</sentence><sentence id="588">He said, look doctor.</sentence><sentence id="589">I have no time.</sentence><sentence id="590">You are bothering me.</sentence><sentence id="591">You take my time away.</sentence><sentence id="592">I have...I have my people to take care of.</sentence><sentence id="593">Get out of my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> or I'll give you over to the Gestapo myself.</sentence><sentence id="594">I was really amazed at that hostile reaction and I was very depressed.</sentence><sentence id="595">I left that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> because he said in ten minutes you have to disappear from my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="596">Alright.</sentence><sentence id="597"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czortkow</span> was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> which looked or is a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> which looked like a <span class="BUILDING">fortress</span>.</sentence><sentence id="598">It had big uh tall uh uh <span class="DLF">walls</span>.</sentence><sentence id="599">It was one of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">eastern cities</span> of the old Austrian-Hungarian monarchy and probably for protection against invasions from the east, but it was a a frightening <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="600">I left the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> in a hurry.</sentence><sentence id="601">I was disappointed.</sentence><sentence id="602">I was angry.</sentence><sentence id="603">I was hungry, tired, and I came and throwing me out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, Dr. Ebner saved my life.</sentence><sentence id="604">Outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, I was exhausted.</sentence><sentence id="605">I looked for a <span class="NPIP">place</span>, a , and I fell asleep.</sentence><sentence id="606">Until in the morning I heard uh I heard engine uh noise.</sentence><sentence id="607">I looked out and I saw <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> filled with police, German police, Ukrainian police.</sentence><sentence id="608">They were liquidating the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in that day.</sentence><sentence id="609">By throwing me out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, he had uh really saved my life.</sentence><sentence id="610">To make a long story short uh at the end of September, beginning of October, finally the aktion took place in It was preceded by a request from the Gestapo to Max Glickstern, the Judenrateltester, to furnish two hundred fifty Jews.</sentence><sentence id="611">The rumors said that the two hundred fifty Jews were meant to go for schmeltz (ph) what that means ?.</sentence><sentence id="612">That means for destruction.</sentence><sentence id="613">And I happened to witness a discussion in the Judenrat which took place to form a list of the two hundred and fifty Jews, and it it was a...the discussion which took place...he said look, you have an old uh father up there who is really...why don't you give your father.</sentence><sentence id="614">He said my father.</sentence><sentence id="615">You have an uncle and you have this...why don't you give...and everybody was pointing fingers to somebody else.</sentence><sentence id="616">It came to a point where Max Glickstern, he had to really...and I I admired him in that time...had tears in his eyes and said look, fellows.</sentence><sentence id="617">I grew up, I know everyone of...I grew up in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span>.</sentence><sentence id="618">I know every one of you here.</sentence><sentence id="619">I am not going to make a list</sentence><sentence id="621">of two hundred and fifty Jews.</sentence><sentence id="622">I am going to say to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span> hide.</sentence><sentence id="623">Whomever it will, it will hit it will hit but I'm not going to make.</sentence><sentence id="624">And he left the meeting.</sentence><sentence id="625">So now everybody was finishing or starting to to to uh because everybody knew it is it is...the end is near and uh the result of that aktion was really disastrous.</sentence><sentence id="626">It wasn't two hundred and fifty.</sentence><sentence id="627">It ended up around fourteen hundred were taken and it explains to a large degree what has been discussed so many times in the last years.</sentence><sentence id="628">Was it correct or was it right or was it fair from the Judenrat or the Judeneltester...I just read the book about Rumkovski, the chief of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lodz ghetto</span>, you know, to give out in order to save the community a certain number of Jews.</sentence><sentence id="629">Here Max Glickstein had re...had refused to give out two hundred fifty and later we asked ourselves the question...if he would have given the two hundred and fifty, you know, there would have remained uh fourteen hundred still there.</sentence><sentence id="630">But it was a a a question which nobody really could uh answer satisfactorily.</sentence><sentence id="631">Uh some two hundred, hundred eighty or two hundred Jews who whose <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> were not found, were uh were uh survived.</sentence><sentence id="632">I witnessed one scene where a uh a tailor by the name of Singer whom I had known in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> uh was on his knee before a German and said, herr Gestapo, .</sentence><sentence id="633">He looked at him...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="743">Q: Translate that.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="745">A: ..uh Mr. Gestapo.</sentence><sentence id="746">Give me back my wife and my child, to which the man looked at him and said bring me a thousand Juden.</sentence><sentence id="747">Bring me thousand Jews.</sentence><sentence id="748">And then he brought a thousand Jews.</sentence><sentence id="749">He knew the <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> of every...of a lot of people.</sentence><sentence id="750">I'll tell you why.</sentence><sentence id="751">Many people, especially the one who had uh still money...they're paying people to to to dig their <span class="INT_SPACE">bunkers</span>.</sentence><sentence id="752">In this way there were people who knew about the <span class="INT_SPACE">bunker</span> of neighbors or other people, and he brought them.</sentence><sentence id="753">When I, we left the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, Gusti and I...Gusti was the name of my first wife...uh Mr. Singer was was still there and the Germans had...he had his wife and his child.</sentence><sentence id="754">How long he survived I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="755">Uh summer 19...before the aktion took place, an incident...an even...a a an episode which might be interesting.</sentence><sentence id="756">One day I got in...I think it was July or August "42...1 don't remember exactly...I get a call from the, from Dr. Teibers to come, to come to him.</sentence><sentence id="757">Since I have seen uh in the end of 1941 he hadn't uh shown too much interest in me.</sentence><sentence id="758">And I came there.</sentence><sentence id="759">I I was a little suspicious of his call and I said uh...he starts questioning...how hungry are you doctor?</sentence><sentence id="760">I was impression first he make fun of me, but then I thought...I say why do you ask me that question?</sentence><sentence id="761">Sure.</sentence><sentence id="762">We have no food.</sentence><sentence id="763">He said I'll tell you why.</sentence><sentence id="764">There is a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span> around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span> by the name of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="765">The story of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span>,O-X-E-N-E-T-Z, itisaaauh...how do they called it...it would be called aa uh hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism.</sentence><sentence id="766">Why is it important to mention it?</sentence><sentence id="767">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span>, they were around twenty or twenty-five Jewish families.</sentence><sentence id="768">Before the German authorities or the Ukrainian authorities were able to take over the new administration after the Soviets left, the local popu...uh population, the local Ukrainians had killed all the Jewish families in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="769">He said there is a call to be made, a medical call in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span> for the grandchild of the wogt (ph).</sentence><sentence id="770">Wogt is the Polish name or the Ukrainian name for uh the mayor.</sentence><sentence id="771">The word comes from the German vogt.</sentence><sentence id="772">It is a uh a Ukrainianization of it, colonization of the word.</sentence><sentence id="773">The , and he'll pay whatever...there is no doctor in the whole <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="774">I say why don't you take the call?</sentence><sentence id="775">He said I wouldn't even if they would pay uh gold I wouldn't go there.</sentence><sentence id="776">He says</sentence><sentence id="778">0 these are murderers.</sentence><sentence id="779">Well, he said, there is a man outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> who waits with a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> or the , you know, to take whoever...if you want to go.</sentence><sentence id="780">He'll pay you whatever you want.</sentence><sentence id="781">I went back and I told Gusti this will be the only way to get some food.</sentence><sentence id="782">I didn't tell her that it is to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span> because why should...she heard later while I was away.</sentence><sentence id="783">I knew that in the <span class="REGION">area</span> was an epidemic of diphtheria and when I came out the...the outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, I found a militia, a Ukrainian militia man with the cap of where they have the emblem of the Ukrainian uh organization.</sentence><sentence id="784">The Ukrainian Nationalist organization had the, was OUM, for uh Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, Organizationa Ukreinski Nationalistiv (ph) in Ukrainian, and their militia men had an emblem...they call it the trizub (ph).</sentence><sentence id="785"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Trizub</span> is a trident .</sentence><sentence id="786">It looked like a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trident</span> and they have it on top of their cap.</sentence><sentence id="787">He had a trident thing and he had a I thought it was a frisky horse.</sentence><sentence id="788">There were two uh wheels in the front, two in the back and something...and we had to sit sideways on it because there was no...there were no <span class="DLF">sides walls</span> on it.</sentence><sentence id="789">Anyway I said before we leave I would like to pass by a...what we called the <span class="BUILDING">convent</span>.</sentence><sentence id="790">There were two Polish nuns who uh who provided the population with uh sporadically this drugs, medications and I passed by...I knew the nuns because one of the nuns a throat infection.</sentence><sentence id="791">Being an ear, nose and throat man, Dr. Teibers a year before had told me, had sent me there to see them because the nuns, you had to to to treat for free and Dr.Teibers was not very much interested to treat for free and this was the reason why he was called over .</sentence><sentence id="792">Anyway I...they gave me a serum, two ampules of serum I think around ten cc's each, large ampules, and uh whose date of expiration was...as a matter of fact I don't remember it...there was a date of expiration.</sentence><sentence id="793">I took these two ampules and we not knowing if I'm going to use it.</sentence><sentence id="794">We...after four, five hours we arrived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oxenetz</span> and entering I saw empty <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> that the wind was was was uh uh...the empty <span class="DLF">windows</span> without glass panes were uh uh and he shout...the man shouted and said in Ukrainian to me...used a very derogatory word.</sentence><sentence id="795">He says .</sentence><sentence id="796">Here our Jews lived.</sentence><sentence id="797">Our Jews.</sentence><sentence id="798">But he used the term jide (ph).</sentence><sentence id="799">It is a a term which the Ukrainian applied in general to Jews and uh I came to the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> of the wogt.</sentence><sentence id="800">He greeted me in this way, with the hand up.</sentence><sentence id="801">Not the uh the uh...it was a greeting...I don't don't think it was the Nazi's Nazi...and showed me the way into the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="802">I came in.</sentence><sentence id="803">I found a two and a half or three year old boy breathing very heavily, almost uh, you know... " , he had that ..1 looked in his throat and there was no (cough) uh everybody who had seen once the so-called pseudo-membranes of of diphtheria patients, it was no problem for me to make the diagnosis.</sentence><sentence id="804">I toldthe __-- I have to to uh give him an injection.</sentence><sentence id="805">He said you do what you have to do.</sentence><sentence id="806">The only thing is there were some fifteen, sixteen people in that little <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, you know, the the <span class="DLF">air</span> was heavy.</sentence><sentence id="807">I said I want everybody out, so only four or five people remained.</sentence><sentence id="808">There was a grandmother.</sentence><sentence id="809">Uh I found out that this was the only male grandchild of the wogt and he he he was tremendously uh uh eager and concerned about the health.</sentence><sentence id="810">I gave the child...the child was very toxic.</sentence><sentence id="811">His his temperature was low.</sentence><sentence id="812">He didn't even have a high temperature.</sentence><sentence id="813">He was pale.</sentence><sentence id="814">He had trouble breathing.</sentence><sentence id="815">I checked his heart to see if he had any complications.</sentence><sentence id="816">No.</sentence><sentence id="817">His heartbeat was alright.</sentence><sentence id="818">His lungs uh I couldn't make out because of that but I gave him the injection and uh I said we'll see.</sentence><sentence id="819">He said alright.</sentence><sentence id="820">You see, you're going to sleep in the next <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="821">I said what do you mean sleep in the next <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="822">He says well, you're going to stay here until the child will recover.</sentence><sentence id="823">I had...I was under the impression that this is going to be</sentence><sentence id="825">1 Just a medical call and I will leave.</sentence><sentence id="826">I realized immediately if that if that child is not going to recover I don't think I'll recover or I'll survive it.</sentence><sentence id="827">But to make a long story short, I was hungry so I said look, I didn't eat the whole day.</sentence><sentence id="828">Oh, he said, food...no problem.</sentence><sentence id="829">He called his wife.</sentence><sentence id="830">He said why don't you make the doctor...and he said pane doctor.</sentence><sentence id="831">That means herr doctor.</sentence><sentence id="832">So Luh said make me a a uh uh five eggs, this slanina, this bacon and they put a bottle of vodka.</sentence><sentence id="833">I had three drinks.</sentence><sentence id="834">I ate it.</sentence><sentence id="835">I felt good and I fell asleep.</sentence><sentence id="836">When I woke up uh some ten or twelve hours later and now it was morning, next day, ten o'clock.</sentence><sentence id="837">I went in to see my patient.</sentence><sentence id="838">He was breathing slightly better.</sentence><sentence id="839">He still still had some but we were able to force a little water or cold milk in his throat.</sentence><sentence id="840">I uh didn't know, I didn't have what to do so meantime somebody else came and said doctor, could you see my wife.</sentence><sentence id="841">So my fee in that time was two chickens for a cold, so I asked the wogt if he'd give me permission.</sentence><sentence id="842">He said sure, why not.</sentence><sentence id="843">Anyway in the evening, at the end of the second day I I was a a lucky uh uh proprietor of six chickens.</sentence><sentence id="844">I had three.</sentence><sentence id="845">I slept the second.</sentence><sentence id="846">I ate and drank well and the third day they...the child was breathing now much better.</sentence><sentence id="847">It was...it...the the serum had... was very worried.</sentence><sentence id="848">The serum at that time was not a very concentrated serum and uh there were a lot of reactions, the reaction what we called serum disease.</sentence><sentence id="849">It...you could have really serious uh uh side reaction, sometimes even fatal.</sentence><sentence id="850">Anyway, that child had absolutely no no side effects.</sentence><sentence id="851">He recovered.</sentence><sentence id="852">The fourth day he was fine.</sentence><sentence id="853">He asked for food.</sentence><sentence id="854">He had now a little bit of a...still around hundred, hundred and two, being that, you know, the European thermometers were from thirty-six degrees Celsius so...centigrade...so uh I said, I asked the wogt how do you uh...do you think I could leave.</sentence><sentence id="855">He says oh yes.</sentence><sentence id="856">Never said thank you.</sentence><sentence id="857">The only uh person who came forward was the wife, his wife.</sentence><sentence id="858">Not the mother of the...the mother of the child didn't leave the child but the grandmother, the wife of the wogt.</sentence><sentence id="859">She came out, took my hand and said in Ukrainian, doctor, thank you very much.</sentence><sentence id="860">You are a good man.</sentence><sentence id="861">You saved my grandchild and the wogt said, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span>...here is the man who brought you.</sentence><sentence id="862">I said...oops, I'm sorry...he said...I'm sorry ..he uh said uh... had asked for what they call a koretz (ph) of... is hundred kilo, two hundred pounds of uh wheat, kernels.</sentence><sentence id="863">He said no problem.</sentence><sentence id="864">I found the hundred kilos on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span>...on the briska.</sentence><sentence id="865">Meantime I had twelve chickens.</sentence><sentence id="866">The moth...the grandmother of, the wife of the wogt had told me she's going to take care of and really everything was on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> and I asked the man when he finally arrived at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korulovka</span> at the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>...this was .</sentence><sentence id="867">That means the aktion...1 am I am coming back.</sentence><sentence id="868">Aktion had not taken place yet.</sentence><sentence id="869">In no time the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, you know, uh knew that the Romanian doctor is with a whole...meantime the rumor that I am bringing a tremendous amount of kernels back.</sentence><sentence id="870">To make a long story short, we had wheat only twenty kilos, not twenty I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="871">Twenty pounds of that kernels we were able to turn into into flour and to bake it.</sentence><sentence id="872">The rest got lost during the inspection of a uh agricultural, German agricultural inspectors.</sentence><sentence id="873">They inspected the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and this was really to to get the food out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1006">Q: change the tapes</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1008">A: Alright.</sentence><sentence id="1009">Phrases missing</sentence><sentence id="1011">2 Tape #2 ...the <span class="DLF">border</span> of police of six feet, six man in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zaleszezyki</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1012">Uh and while we walked I don't...he he pointed out here comes the...here, you see, this is the the Lieutenant.</sentence><sentence id="1013">I think he said Lieutenant.</sentence><sentence id="1014">And I saw a man from the police.</sentence><sentence id="1015">I I was uh not only surprised but I wasn't too eager to meet, and...but he he greeted him as he answered and we stopped somehow to talk.</sentence><sentence id="1016">I spoke a much better German.</sentence><sentence id="1017">German was my native tongue than the man...not Singer (ph)...something Shiller (ph), Singer...something...I don't remember exactly his name.</sentence><sentence id="1018">But he started to talk about it and to the man...as a matter of fact, he's from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1019">He announced the policeman, he's he's uh he's a <span class="BUILDING">high school</span> teacher and uh in his civilian...he teaches mathematics at the uh <span class="BUILDING">gymnasium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1020">He mentioned in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> and he started to talk about it and uh uh we went to a <span class="NPIP">place</span> uh that Singer, whose name was, had...apparently he had to make an appoint...he wanted something from that man, and he knew him better uh because he had brought a bottle of vodka for him and uh uh the officer sat down...he brou...the German sat down and started to drink.</sentence><sentence id="1021">After a few drinks he started to talk about <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span>...how uh how he he he would like to be back in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span>, and then he started to talk about his father who's uh...and he he told us...apparently he felt he can uh talk to us very openly and for a uh Social Democrat he was member in the Shutzbund.</sentence><sentence id="1022">I knew more about the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Shutzbund</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1023">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> the Shutzbund in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> was an organization, was a fighting organization of the Social Democrats in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> who had fought against Dolfuss when he was Chancellor of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Vienna</span> and uh they were beaten and why he told us this story I didn't understand.</sentence><sentence id="1024">Maybe he felt we were candidates to any uh...but he...uh then he started to talk about the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="1025">He was already drunk and he said to us in German, to me, uh yeah, Juden .</sentence><sentence id="1026">That means uh there is open season on you.</sentence><sentence id="1027">Everybody can shoot you.</sentence><sentence id="1028">There is no law to protect you.</sentence><sentence id="1029">This would be the uh...it happened that after the incident when the , when the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in was annihilated, I was back into into uh uh Zaleszczyky also trying to... tended toward the <span class="DLF">border</span>, always to find maybe there is a way there to get out.</sentence><sentence id="1030">And one day I saw from far the figure of that German and uh not being able any more to get out of his way, I greeted him and he was not in a very good mood and uh said, ah...and I asked him don't you feel well?</sentence><sentence id="1031">You know, I'm a physician so I ask people how they feel and he said oh, I was asked by the...to take part in this, to surround the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czortkow</span>, to which I said uh...apparently he knew what is going to happen to the Jews because then I asked him, do you let anybody escape?</sentence><sentence id="1032">He said, escape?</sentence><sentence id="1033">My orders there to surround.</sentence><sentence id="1034">I I don't know what uh...I didn't uh take part in anything but...then he said, .</sentence><sentence id="1035">I don't know how the German people will ever be able to to uh, not to answer for it... , to be responsible for what they did.</sentence><sentence id="1036">It remin...it remains with me even today after so many years.</sentence><sentence id="1037">Anyway, coming back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> after the aktion, I had decided to form for myself a boivka (ph), a fighting group, and I recruited for it a woman and her husband by the name of Padover.</sentence><sentence id="1038">Why did I...it was an energetic woman in her late thirties or beginning forties who was, who grew up in the <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1039">She knew every <span class="NPIP">area in</span> the...and when she talked to me about it, I knew that she really was very familiar with it.</sentence><sentence id="1040">She had, she had uh uh contacts with farmers.</sentence><sentence id="1041">She knew farmers.</sentence><sentence id="1042">She had contact with farmers who were uh her friends from before and I felt it was a good...she introduced me also</sentence><sentence id="1044">3 to a very tall, six foot two, young, eighteen year old Jewish fellow whom I recruited also because they were survivors of what had happened in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and I had decided to go into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1045">Uh to make a long story short, when we met in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> at our <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>, it turned out to be a complete fiasco.</sentence><sentence id="1046">Mr. Padover had decided meantime...he showed up at our <span class="BUILDING">meeting place</span> with an eighteen year old kid.</sentence><sentence id="1047">I said where is your wife, because the reason why I had recruited him was his wife, not he.</sentence><sentence id="1048">And he said ah she's too old for me.</sentence><sentence id="1049">The young man who had said he's going to bring a brother brought a fourteen year old kid...thin...I don't know if he was uh maybe ninety-five pounds...thin...you know, every uh wind uh draft would would...my whole fighting group turned out to be really nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1050">Anyway we found...we had made an appointment with the Ukrainian fellow who took us to a <span class="NPIP">place</span> uh where he fed us really and uh hid us and two weeks or ten days later, there was an alarm.</sentence><sentence id="1051">We had to run.</sentence><sentence id="1052">During running there was panic.</sentence><sentence id="1053">We ran in different directions.</sentence><sentence id="1054">We lost each other and Gusti and I ended up together out in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1055">Meantime it was cold.</sentence><sentence id="1056">We didn't have where to go.</sentence><sentence id="1057">I'm reminded now the promise which Mr. Zarevski, the husband that Pole had told me...it took me one and a haLf days to get.</sentence><sentence id="1058">He was in a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>...I think <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Smikow</span> (ph), I don't remember exactly.</sentence><sentence id="1059">He lived in a <span class="BUILDING">hut</span> outside...I knew where he lived because he had brought me to see his wife there and uh was hard to get there.</sentence><sentence id="1060">It was <span class="NPIP">outside</span>...he he tried to keep a very low profile, being Polish and I...then later I understood why.</sentence><sentence id="1061">Because it turned out he was a member of the underground, the Polish underground.</sentence><sentence id="1062">When I knocked on his <span class="DLF">window</span> it must have been four o'clock in the morning.</sentence><sentence id="1063">Uh I heard somebody moving <span class="NPIP">inside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1064">Finally he opened and then I told through the <span class="DLF">window</span> who it is.</sentence><sentence id="1065">I uh...he opened and let us in.</sentence><sentence id="1066">We were exhausted.</sentence><sentence id="1067">He gave us some food.</sentence><sentence id="1068">He let us sleep there and then he said, look, uh uh this is a bad <span class="NPIP">place</span> for you to stay.</sentence><sentence id="1069">I didn't understand why.</sentence><sentence id="1070">To me it looked like a very good <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1071">But he said this is... have to find a <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> for you.</sentence><sentence id="1072">A week later or six days later, he said I found somebody.</sentence><sentence id="1073">He took us on a tour which lasted probably three hours, way into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and he, on the way there, he said the furster (ph)...furster is a a uh uh Polanization or Ukrainization of the German word .</sentence><sentence id="1074">It means a man who takes care of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, of uh uh...he's a representative of the of the <span class="REGION">county</span>, in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1075">He sort of uh uh surveys the cutting of <span class="ENV_FEATURES">trees</span> where they ma...where they collect wood for the winter.</sentence><sentence id="1076">He he uh sells or gives the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">wood</span> out to certain people in certain <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">communities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1077">He's an official person.</sentence><sentence id="1078">We met him there and he again said...we came there.</sentence><sentence id="1079">The first thing we ate something after these three and a half hours of walk and uh he was very respectful toward Mr. Zaresvki, as if he would be his superior.</sentence><sentence id="1080">I didn't understand why.</sentence><sentence id="1081">Whatever he...and that he knew about us already and he said yes, I have a <span class="NPIP">place</span> for you, but not here where he lived...he he was with his wife there.</sentence><sentence id="1082">He was a rep...he spoke Polish with Mr. Zarevski.</sentence><sentence id="1083">He had certain loyalties toward the previous administration because he was the official representative of the Polish uh community there.</sentence><sentence id="1084">He was an employee of the State, not of the county, and...but he was very respectful toward Mr. Zarevski, and they brought us to a <span class="BUILDING">barn</span> some four kilometers far in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, an empty <span class="BUILDING">building</span> - hay with an at...so-called <span class="INT_SPACE">attic</span>, you know, and uh we...in the <span class="INT_SPACE">attic</span> there was something which looked like a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> as if somebody had slept.</sentence><sentence id="1085">I understood why he brought us there.</sentence><sentence id="1086">That means if somebody would find out that Jews are there, he could say he didn't know anything about it.</sentence><sentence id="1087">He said he will visit us every week.</sentence><sentence id="1088">He gave us a couple of uh blankets and he gave us some food.</sentence><sentence id="1091">4 he said he's going once a week to visit us, night time, and really uh it happened.</sentence><sentence id="1092">For three weeks he came every week, brought us food.</sentence><sentence id="1093">One day I saw around six o'clock...it was already slightly dark...two figures coming.</sentence><sentence id="1094">It turned out to be Zarevski and Janek.was the name of the person, and uh uh uh Zarevski or Zaremski, said I want to talk to you personally.</sentence><sentence id="1095">My wife...so , the first thing, my wife uh sepa...stayed aside and he talked to me, he said to me uh, you know, you come from <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, right?</sentence><sentence id="1096">How well do you speak Romanian?</sentence><sentence id="1097">I said perfect, I said.</sentence><sentence id="1098">He said well, do you think you would like to join a fighting organization?</sentence><sentence id="1099">Join a fighting...?</sentence><sentence id="1100">Certainly, why not.</sentence><sentence id="1101">Which is it?</sentence><sentence id="1102">He said it's out near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Armia Kraiowa</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1103">We are under the the uh government of the in the, the Polish government.</sentence><sentence id="1104">He said I'll come in a week back.</sentence><sentence id="1105">I am going to discuss with my superiors.</sentence><sentence id="1106">I told him about you, and I gave...I have a plan.</sentence><sentence id="1107">He says I'm not going to talk to you yet about my plan.</sentence><sentence id="1108">He came back uh came back the next week and said, well, my plan seems to be a good one.</sentence><sentence id="1109">It still has to be approved by the <span class="BUILDING">Center</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1110">My next question was, if I join you, will I be armed?</sentence><sentence id="1111">He said everybody in this organization has a gun. .</sentence><sentence id="1112">He said I trust you.</sentence><sentence id="1113">Uh then he left.</sentence><sentence id="1114">He walked some three, four hundred feet, then he turned around and came back, took out a pistol, a German luger, and said here, you have this.</sentence><sentence id="1115">Keep it.</sentence><sentence id="1116">It had a full mag...I checked...it had a full magazine.</sentence><sentence id="1117">It was a 9 milimeter.</sentence><sentence id="1118">They called it the German Parabellum .</sentence><sentence id="1119">It was aa uh a fine gun with a long.</sentence><sentence id="1120">Anyway, he came back a week later and he said, look, uh...oh yes, meantime we were...it was December, beginning of January...we were "42-"43.</sentence><sentence id="1121">The...apparently the furster had a radio because he heard BBC.</sentence><sentence id="1122">He told us about the Battle of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Stalingrad</span> which takes place and the Russians are beating the hell out of of the Germans and the Germans...in that time he said, he told me about Marshall Paulus who wants to uh to uh to...was picked up by by BBC.</sentence><sentence id="1123">He he gets, asks the permission of Hitler to to uh to give up and Hitler says no, until the last man so our mood was...right now I was going to be a member of a fighting organization.</sentence><sentence id="1124">I had a gun.</sentence><sentence id="1125">You don't know what a gun in that time meant for a Jew.</sentence><sentence id="1126">To have a gun, to be able to protect yourself.</sentence><sentence id="1127">You couldn't...it it was worth its own weight in gold and here I got it without...1 had you know...and the news about the Battle of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Stalingrad</span>...it was good news.</sentence><sentence id="1128">Our morale was...anyway it didn't last for a long time.</sentence><sentence id="1129">Now...he told me now about his plan.</sentence><sentence id="1130">He said I'm going to be a courier for them (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1131">He said the contacts of the army of takes place only through <span class="COUNTRY">Sweden</span> and it is very hard because they have to go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Gdansk</span>, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Gdansk</span> to smuggle, to...by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">boat</span>, to <span class="COUNTRY">Sweden</span> and from there to...and from <span class="COUNTRY">Sweden</span> they have no problem getting to <span class="COUNTRY">England</span> but because the Polish government in exile is direct organization from <span class="COUNTRY">England</span> and the contacts through through <span class="COUNTRY">Sweden</span> is bad.</sentence><sentence id="1132">He still is waiting but his immediate superior in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lamberg</span> (ph), in in...had said it's a wonderful idea.</sentence><sentence id="1133">He should take me in so...and I speaking Romanian because <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> had a large group of refugees from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> who had run away, military people, civilians, and there was an active Polish organization direct in charge of the Polish refugees in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1134">That means he had a a good in for <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> to get in touch with with <span class="COUNTRY">England</span> was much easier.</sentence><sentence id="1135">Uh <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> at that time had contacts with <span class="COUNTRY">Turkey</span> and through <span class="COUNTRY">Turkey</span> they could they could get...so he felt I was the ideal uh person to make the contact.</sentence><sentence id="1136">It...a week later with the furster came also.</sentence><sentence id="1137">Almost two weeks later...it was the beginning I think of February or the end of February and he came back in panic.</sentence><sentence id="1138">You have to leave immediately.</sentence><sentence id="1139">Next day a Ukrainian police</sentence><sentence id="1141">5 is...militia is coming there.</sentence><sentence id="1142">He doesn't know why they are coming but he heard one militia man who had a a Polish mother, you know, who had still...had told him about it, and uh apparently also uh ___ was on the run.</sentence><sentence id="1143">Something had happened.</sentence><sentence id="1144">He didn't tell me what and I have to give him back the gun.</sentence><sentence id="1145">I thought that the whole thing is...he's going to bring me to somebody else he had spoke.</sentence><sentence id="1146">He brought me...we walked, we walked I think the whole night.</sentence><sentence id="1147">I think he couldn't have brought us farther to a <span class="NPIP">place</span> which looked very good for me, for...uh to me.</sentence><sentence id="1148">It was...it's a hiding place under a <span class="BUILDING">stable</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1149">Unfortunately, that <span class="BUILDING">stable</span> had...the floor of the <span class="BUILDING">stable</span> were boards and the boards had spaces between them, small <span class="INT_SPACE">spaces</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1150">There was a cow there, and when the weather was bad the cow didn't want to go out or wasn't taken <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, so when the cow had to urinate or to defecate there, especially to urinate, it came down like a, like a shower and you had to run to the side.</sentence><sentence id="1151">Still you ended up getting some sprinkles of that urine and that urine had a smell and it impregnated what our clothes and after two or three weeks, it...we start to smell badly.</sentence><sentence id="1152">You know, we hated ourselves.</sentence><sentence id="1153">As a matter of fact a few weeks later Gusti broke out in general furuncolosys , furunculs uh small infections of the skin.</sentence><sentence id="1154">She was so depressed.</sentence><sentence id="1155">It hurt.</sentence><sentence id="1156">She couldn't scratch it.</sentence><sentence id="1157">It was itchy.</sentence><sentence id="1158">It was infected.</sentence><sentence id="1159">It took me probably...slowly, slowly by treating each infection infection separately, to clean it up, it took maybe two months.</sentence><sentence id="1160">Meantime you had to go out night time and you couldn't get out night and every night to to uh to try to get rid, to take off the the clothes and you couldn't...and it was cold...you couldn't take off the clothes.</sentence><sentence id="1161">You were cold.</sentence><sentence id="1162">But you have still to air these clothes in order they should get dry to loose, because we ended up smelling terrible.</sentence><sentence id="1163">Uh two months...it had one good thing.</sentence><sentence id="1164">We had a built-in supply of milk.</sentence><sentence id="1165">I learned to milk the cow.</sentence><sentence id="1166">I had to be careful because whenever she milked the cow, she gave us half a cup of milk each, but it wasn't enough, so I learned to try...Gusti was holding the cow and stroking her neck which the cow really liked very much and she got accustomed to Gusti stroking and I was milking her.</sentence><sentence id="1167">In the beginning I tried... didn't have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">receptacle</span>, you know, so I was trying to drink directly.</sentence><sentence id="1168">You know, when you are hungry you do many things.</sentence><sentence id="1169">But this was the built-in uh milk supply of that <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1170">The couple were under apparently Pole-friendly, Polish uh friendly to the Poles because the Furster never showed up again.</sentence><sentence id="1171">I don't really know what had happened to him.</sentence><sentence id="1172">Neither Zarevski nor the Polish Furster.</sentence><sentence id="1173">They had brought us, but they were friendly to a degree.</sentence><sentence id="1174">The husband was Ukrainian.</sentence><sentence id="1175">The wife was a mixture of Polish.</sentence><sentence id="1176">She spoke well Polish...Maria...no...Anka (ph) was her name.</sentence><sentence id="1177">Anka had...Gusti told her in order to give her...that she's a fine knitter.</sentence><sentence id="1178">She's a good knitter.</sentence><sentence id="1179">She saw her wearing an old pull-over she has.</sentence><sentence id="1180">You know...let me have that pull-over.</sentence><sentence id="1181">I'm going to take it apart.</sentence><sentence id="1182">I'm going to wash the wool and knit for you a new one.</sentence><sentence id="1183">She made her a new pull-over in three, two or three days and she was, Anka was delighted and she started to bring her more and more.</sentence><sentence id="1184">Apparently she made it a business because she sold it for something or she exchanged it.</sentence><sentence id="1185">She bartered it because uh Gusti was a very fast knitter.</sentence><sentence id="1186">She was able to finish a pull-over in one and a half days working eight to ten hours and there was nothing else to do.</sentence><sentence id="1187">You know, we could go out only in the...and so it happens that in the spring or April or May, walking around by myself to <span class="DLF">air</span>, to get a little fresh air and to get rid of that smell, that I happened and probably having strayed a little too far because I had strayed once too far and I got near a <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and a dog started to bark.</sentence><sentence id="1188">In small <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">communities</span> if one dog starts to bark, all the dogs in the whole community...and I started to</sentence><sentence id="1190">6 run away because I had maybe fifty or sixty dogs start a whole...you know, naturally immediately their owners will come out to investigate what's going on, so this was bad because we could be found out and uh uh the stricter interdiction by our hosts were not to go too far, to stay...and I had impression while I walked...this must have been in April...it was already, or May uh that uh...oh yes...meantime because of that knitting business, the attitude of our hosts had had started to improve.</sentence><sentence id="1191">It was only bad when they got drunk or had a fight, and usually then they uh then they had uh...they drank and they got a little high.</sentence><sentence id="1192">They started to have a fight.</sentence><sentence id="1193">It had to do with Polish-Ukrainian or I don't know because I didn't hear but there were times when he hit her and then she was yelling, but these were not good uh omens for us because uh if somebody would have found out that he was hiding Jews, he would, he could have been shot.</sentence><sentence id="1194">Anyway, coming back, walking <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, I had the impression somebody is following me, and I went in circles, walking a little farther than usually, and I heard uh...really I was sure now somebody followed me because I heard...he must have stepped on on a on dry <span class="ENV_FEATURES">branches</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1195">I heard them uh the noise of uh <span class="ENV_FEATURES">branches</span> until finally somebody told me from behind, hands up, , and...in Russian, and went through my pockets.</sentence><sentence id="1196">I had a knife with me.</sentence><sentence id="1197">They took my knife away and...he took my knife and not they.</sentence><sentence id="1198">He took my knife away.</sentence><sentence id="1199">Told me to lie down with my face down and started to inter...who I am and so I told him look, uh Romanian...now I told immediately I'm a Romanian physician, you know, and he said uh...he used the term evrei (ph) Evrei (ph) is a Russian term for Jews, but not derogatory.</sentence><sentence id="1200">Uh it uh it means you are a Jew, but it's not a derogatory term.</sentence><sentence id="1201">It's uh it's the way how in their, in the Russian passports you are being uh uh indicate your nationality.</sentence><sentence id="1202">He wanted to know with who I am, where I am, how long I have been there, how uh...well, he said, uh I want to see...in next week I'm going to be here.</sentence><sentence id="1203">I saw immediately he doesn't belong to the <span class="REGION">local Ukraine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1204">I was afraid he might be a Banderovtzi (ph) from the Ukrainian uh organization which killed Jews.</sentence><sentence id="1205">He was not.</sentence><sentence id="1206">He didn't have the trizub.</sentence><sentence id="1207">He uh he uh he had a a German uh uh sub-machine gun, a Schmeisser and uh didn't tell me...I asked him...he didn't answer.</sentence><sentence id="1208">He says I would like to talk to, to see your wife.</sentence><sentence id="1209">I want to see if it's correct.</sentence><sentence id="1210">Alright.</sentence><sentence id="1211">A week later or ten days later..we had made an appointment.</sentence><sentence id="1212">I brought Gusti there.</sentence><sentence id="1213">What could I do.</sentence><sentence id="1214">Yes, he said, no word to your <span class="BUILDING">house</span> about me.</sentence><sentence id="1215">I don't trust them.</sentence><sentence id="1216">I don't know them.</sentence><sentence id="1217">No word.</sentence><sentence id="1218">And I came the uh first thing, when I came with Gusti to meet him, also night time, he looked at her, as much as he could see her in the dark.</sentence><sentence id="1219">He said do you follow my orders.</sentence><sentence id="1220">I didn't know what he meant.</sentence><sentence id="1221">I said not to tell your host anything...orders, he said.</sentence><sentence id="1222">So it was a military term, you know, and I didn't know...now he told us who he was.</sentence><sentence id="1223">He said his name was Vasia.</sentence><sentence id="1224">He is a part of an organ....of a parachute group which were uh parachuted near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="49.567" long="25.6">Tarnopol</span> and they have to prepare the terrain for a large group.</sentence><sentence id="1225">He said...I said how large.</sentence><sentence id="1226">He said close to a thousand people.</sentence><sentence id="1227">A thousand people parachuting... didn't sound to me very, very uh...yes he said.</sentence><sentence id="1228">He mentioned a General Kovpak, K - O - V - P -A - K. He's their leader and he will come with the big group.</sentence><sentence id="1229">He has to, orders to prepare and he says they have to fulfill an order, he says, but nobody in our...only a few people know our task, what we have to perform.</sentence><sentence id="1230">Later I found out the whole group is supposed to destroy the industrial triangle in northwestern Galitzia , three in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Borsczow</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1231">There were <span class="DLF">mines</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1232">There were oil, you know, and two weeks later he came.</sentence><sentence id="1233">He was very short.</sentence><sentence id="1234">Yes.</sentence><sentence id="1235">At our meeting when he met Gusti, as a sign of</sentence><sentence id="1237">7 friendliness he brought us a <span class="BUILDING">kolbasa</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1238"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kolbasa</span> is the Russian term for salami, for kilbasi (ph), you know, and he brought a piece of bread and uh...terrific delicacy for us.</sentence><sentence id="1239">The second time when he came he brought us some uh salted uh lard.</sentence><sentence id="1240">Salted lard was one of the preferred things for us, because if you spread...a little piece would keep you the whole...it was rich in calories.</sentence><sentence id="1241">It could keep you a whole day, you know, your stomach.</sentence><sentence id="1242">Again he inter...I started...now again he says, do you speak Romanian?</sentence><sentence id="1243">No, this was later.</sentence><sentence id="1244">A week later he asked me this.</sentence><sentence id="1245">The week later he came.</sentence><sentence id="1246">He was very de...it was now July.</sentence><sentence id="1247">July "43.</sentence><sentence id="1248">He said we had fulfilled our task.</sentence><sentence id="1249">The large group had arrived.</sentence><sentence id="1250">We had destroyed...the triangle went up in flame.</sentence><sentence id="1251">I don't know how much.</sentence><sentence id="1252">I can rely only what uh he told me, and he said uh...the second time when he he had asked me again uh would you like to join our group, I said sure, why not. ,</sentence><sentence id="1253">what did I have.</sentence><sentence id="1254">Uh, but he had told me he doesn't like our <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1255">He has to find for us another <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> and he really did.</sentence><sentence id="1256">He found for us a <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span> again.</sentence><sentence id="1257">It was a Ukrainian couple who apparently were very pro-Soviet and very...apparently who were not very well regarded by the Ukrainian Nationalist Organization because of some job they had had during the occupation of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Galatia</span> by the Russians, and apparently he was a contact of theirs and so on.</sentence><sentence id="1258">Meantime...as soon...why, when I asked him why do you look so uh shattered, he said, oh we fought very hard.</sentence><sentence id="1259">The Germans attacked us.</sentence><sentence id="1260">As soon as they destroyed that triangle, the Germans brought a whole division, I think of Ukrainian SS.</sentence><sentence id="1261">The Ukrainian formed I think two SS divisions and uh he says they destroyed everything.</sentence><sentence id="1262">As a matter of fact he says our group is now in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountains</span>, in the Carpetian (ph) mountains.</sentence><sentence id="1263">They pushed us back and the higher and higher we go...and he says and I have a task for you.</sentence><sentence id="1264">Yes...meantime he had brought me also a gun.</sentence><sentence id="1265">He had brought me a gun...a big twelve shooter.</sentence><sentence id="1266">A Belgium FN.</sentence><sentence id="1267">He called it FN enca (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1268">FN stands for Fabrique Nationale, because I could read the inscription on this.</sentence><sentence id="1269">It's a big gun.</sentence><sentence id="1270">It has...it's a nine millimeter gun.</sentence><sentence id="1271">It has a big uh twelve uh bullet magazine.</sentence><sentence id="1272">It pulled my pants down, (laughter) you know, but a gun was something which uh...uh so by August he came back to us.</sentence><sentence id="1273">Yes...we were meantime transferred to that couple.</sentence><sentence id="1274">Again, we were in a <span class="BUILDING">barn</span>, a much smaller but there was no...(long pause/blank in tape)...didn't have any more of that uh that uh uh contact with the nipping, with Anka, the previous hostess and uh they said...one day he came, he said next day I have your...meantime he had inquired about <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, how well I know the northern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span> and so on and he said I'm going to be a courier to a person who is in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, in the northern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1275">He gave me the name.</sentence><sentence id="1276">The name was, | think, Petre Hreniuk.</sentence><sentence id="1277">Petre Hreniuk.</sentence><sentence id="1278">H - R - E- N-1I-U-K. Petre Hreniuk lived near the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Zastavna</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1279">Now my sister was the uh in charge of a <span class="BUILDING">pharmacy</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zastavna</span> and I knew the <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1280">I had...I knew the <span class="REGION">area</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>, how to travel to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zastavna</span>, but I never had done from and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zastavna</span> was not far from from uh the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1281">All those <span class="NPIP">parts</span>...you could reach it by uh walking.</sentence><sentence id="1282">He said you have to meet Petre Hreniuk and uh try to to uh...he should hide fifty of our fighters.</sentence><sentence id="1283">I said alright.</sentence><sentence id="1284">You have to leave tomorrow.</sentence><sentence id="1285">He told the couple, the woman of the...uh he went to the woman.</sentence><sentence id="1286">She came over and he said you have to prepare for me uh food I should take from, for a week, ten days.</sentence><sentence id="1287">He felt, he figured out...took me much longer because I did the biggest stupidity of my life while I was .</sentence><sentence id="1288">It was...he told that he is...the woman knew the <span class="REGION">area</span> and she gave me a contact where I could...I had to uh to cross the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1289">The <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span> is the <span class="DLF">border</span> between...the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river Dniester</span> is the <span class="DLF">border</span> between</sentence><sentence id="1291">8 <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and uh the General Government in the northern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1292">Meantime the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span> had nearly occupied by the Romanian and was a Romanian administration there.</sentence><sentence id="1293">I...there...the crossing of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span> was no problem.</sentence><sentence id="1294">It was a drought.</sentence><sentence id="1295">The Niestra was very uh very uh shallow and I am a swimmer.</sentence><sentence id="1296">I...so it didn't uh affect.</sentence><sentence id="1297">I came to Petre Hreniuk who...uh when I gave him uh...there was a uh a...I had to tell him who sent me, everything.</sentence><sentence id="1298">Finally he he knew about it.</sentence><sentence id="1299">I think somebody else might have told him because he knew about the group.</sentence><sentence id="1300">The group had had uh uh parachuted near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Tarnapol</span> (ph), between <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Tarnapol</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Chotkow</span> (ph) near <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Skalat</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1301">They had first, while they had parachuted they had immediately a a uh a run-in with the Ukrainian police which brought Germans from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Borszczow</span>, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czortkow</span> and from from uh , to help them fight.</sentence><sentence id="1302">And this is how the...but they they proceeded slowly, slowly toward which that triangle and finally they destroyed it.</sentence><sentence id="1303">But meantime all the way they had to fight the Germans and the Ukrainians.</sentence><sentence id="1304">It uh...1 wanted to tell you something else.</sentence><sentence id="1305">Yes...in that time before I left, uh Vasia had told me that the group which had parachuted had formed a Jewish echelon.</sentence><sentence id="1306">They called it I think Third (ph) Echelon, formed by Jewish refugees whom they had picked up.</sentence><sentence id="1307">But he said you are not going to to join them.</sentence><sentence id="1308">You will have a special task.</sentence><sentence id="1309">You'll be a courier.</sentence><sentence id="1310">Here I was again...uh uh uh engaged to be a courier by a different group uh similar to do almost a similar task like for the Polish uh underground.</sentence><sentence id="1311">They... came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Hreniuk</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1312">Hreniuk when I told him fifty people he laughed.</sentence><sentence id="1313">He said uh it, it's impossible.</sentence><sentence id="1314">He said the only thing what I could hide, the only people, five...maybe six people.</sentence><sentence id="1315">He says...how should I feed them.</sentence><sentence id="1316">They...uh in...not far from him there was a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> where __ Romanian gendarmerie post.</sentence><sentence id="1317">He says you cannot hide fifty people easily in this here.</sentence><sentence id="1318">You you need food.</sentence><sentence id="1319">You know these are fifty human beings who who eat, drink.</sentence><sentence id="1320">If you...he says five people I could make.</sentence><sentence id="1321">While I was there eating and drinking...he he served me food and really he was very friendly.</sentence><sentence id="1322">Uh the only thing is this is what he can do.</sentence><sentence id="1323">Not more.</sentence><sentence id="1324">Suddenly it came in my mind...here I am not far from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1325">Why can't I go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1326">I forgot completely, and II grew up there.</sentence><sentence id="1327">That there is the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">River Prut</span> which...who has a <span class="DLF">bridge</span> over it which, when you come from the north...I have completely forgotten.</sentence><sentence id="1328">And I decided to go on a Sunday to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> knowing that the <span class="BUILDING">market</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> takes place on Monday always.</sentence><sentence id="1329">And there will be farmers who go to <span class="BUILDING">market</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1330">Suddenly I...on the <span class="DLF">road</span> I pick....I was picked, I picked up a couple who were on a little... who were taking food to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> to see at the <span class="BUILDING">market</span> and they gave me a ride and I was sitting with them, talking with them.</sentence><sentence id="1331">It was early...four, five o'clock in the morning and suddenly we arrived at the <span class="DLF">bridge</span> and at the <span class="DLF">bridge</span> there were Romanian uh soldiers.</sentence><sentence id="1332">It was not the...the real <span class="DLF">bridge</span> had been destroyed and there was a <span class="DLF">pontoon bridge</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1333">I couldn't go back anymore.</sentence><sentence id="1334">I had told this couple that I have an appointment with the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> uh revisor in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1335">I looked like a farmer but I spoke quite a Romanian and uh these were Ukrainian uh farmers, Ruthenians, and they...the soldiers didn't ask any questions.</sentence><sentence id="1336">They...he asked the farmer in the...who was sitting in the front with uh guiding the horses...he said uh, <span class="BUILDING">market</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1337">He said, yeah.</sentence><sentence id="1338">He let us pass.</sentence><sentence id="1339">Anyway, I I was ready to uh to to collapse uh so emotional.</sentence><sentence id="1340">Anyway I found myself on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1341">I went, knowing <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> quite well, I went through side...uh you have to go uh uh <span class="DLF">street</span>, Banhofstrasse which is a very uh steep uh <span class="DLF">street</span> that the <span class="DLF">tramway</span> goes up toward the center of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1342">I'm in side <span class="DLF">street</span>, Morariu strasse, and I came to my <span class="DLF">street</span></sentence><sentence id="1344">9 where I was born and to tell you the truth, when I saw the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, Marshall Fosh number 9, I I looked at it.</sentence><sentence id="1345">I looked at it and yes...and on the way there I had seen a few people with the Juden star (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1346">They didn't have what we had in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, that uh uh white band with the blue star.</sentence><sentence id="1347">They had the yellow star here and uh I tried to pass, uh to keep a low profile as much as possible.</sentence><sentence id="1348">While I was in my <span class="DLF">street</span> I saw coming a former girlfriend of mine with a Romanian officer, arm in arm, and uh didn't even uh spent one look at me.</sentence><sentence id="1349">I was dressed like a farmer.</sentence><sentence id="1350">I recognized her.</sentence><sentence id="1351">She didn't even look at me and then I decided I did enough stupidity coming in to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> and uh I still have to go back and...oh yes...what was very important, Vasia had told me my wife is going to stay in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1352">He said it's the...if I let Gusti go with you you'll never come back and he was right.</sentence><sentence id="1353">And yes... had to leave my gun there.</sentence><sentence id="1354">He said you cannot take the gun of course.</sentence><sentence id="1355">It might uh, it might induce you to be, to start a fight or something not good.</sentence><sentence id="1356">Better if you don't have a gun.</sentence><sentence id="1357">And he was probably right.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1717">Q: Were your parents still alive at that time?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1719">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="1720">My father and my sister, I found out later that they, you know, generally from the community of around a hundred thousand Jews, around eighty-five thousand were deported to Transnistria Moghilev and the centers in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Transnistia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1721">The <span class="REGION">area</span> uh uh...Hitler gave the Romanian an <span class="REGION">area</span> beyond the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span> between the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Dniester</span> and the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Bugr rivers</span>, which the Romanians called <span class="RIVER">Transnistria</span>, where hey deported a few hundred thousand Jews and uh from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> they took eighty-five thousand.</sentence><sentence id="1722">My sister was declared uh...eight uh fifteen thousand Jews remained in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> which were declared uh important for the economy of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, as a former (ph) city, and she got a permit to remain in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1723">She remained with my father.</sentence><sentence id="1724">I didn't know who lived in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1725">I didn't dare to go in not knowing who...it happens that my father and Melane (ph) stayed in that <span class="BUILDING">house</span> where I was in front of that <span class="BUILDING">house</span> looking at it.</sentence><sentence id="1726">I didn't realize it.</sentence><sentence id="1727">I didn't ask anybody.</sentence><sentence id="1728">I tried to to to to sneak by and finally decided...oh yes...I had asked the, that couple with the horse who had brought me to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> when they returned and they said ah between two and three o'clock.</sentence><sentence id="1729">I said do you have...but he said we have no watch.</sentence><sentence id="1730">Neither did I. So I figured out more or less...I went back to what the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Prut</span>, toward the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span> where I fell asleep for a couple of hours because meantime it was only ten o'clock, and around twelve o'clock or twelve thirty I was back at the <span class="NPIP">place</span> where we had decided where we meet.</sentence><sentence id="1731">They were already there waiting.</sentence><sentence id="1732">They had sold what they had to sell, and they were wait...they were ready to leave even without me, but since I came earlier I still found them.</sentence><sentence id="1733">We crossed the <span class="DLF">pontoon bridge</span> again.</sentence><sentence id="1734">Nobody asked any questions, and I...when I came back to north toward the <span class="DLF">border</span> I decided to go back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Hreniuk</span> and to rest a little bit for a day, which I did, and this time he was quite hostile.</sentence><sentence id="1735">He wasn't very...he said what are you doing here?</sentence><sentence id="1736">I told him I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span> and he said you went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1737">Aren't you afraid?</sentence><sentence id="1738">I didn't tell him how stupid I was doing it, but uh I couldn't resist.</sentence><sentence id="1739">I had completely...it was an emotional reaction which I couldn't explain.</sentence><sentence id="1740">Coming back to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> I uh told him...I found him in terrible shape, terrible.</sentence><sentence id="1741">He had a wound on his his...two feet...he had walked probably a lot.</sentence><sentence id="1742">He said he's trying to make...he came to say goodbye to us.</sentence><sentence id="1743">He left me the gun.</sentence><sentence id="1744">He told me the order of the day, of General Kovpak is every soldier got fifty bullets.</sentence><sentence id="1745">He says since I had a <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span></sentence><sentence id="1747">0 gun, they didn't have...1 got only what was in the magazine.</sentence><sentence id="1748">He says you have twelve.</sentence><sentence id="1749">Remember - the order of the day is forty-nine bullets for the Germans, one for yourself.</sentence><sentence id="1750">Don't give up.</sentence><sentence id="1751">That means for you it's only eleven for the Germans and one for you.</sentence><sentence id="1752">I never got a chance to shoot it.</sentence><sentence id="1753">But it uh...I mean to use it.</sentence><sentence id="1754">He left me the gun, took...he embraced us both.</sentence><sentence id="1755">He says I don't know if we'll ever see again.</sentence><sentence id="1756">He was very...he was in terrible shape because he had to walk hundred plus kilometers.</sentence><sentence id="1757">He told us that the front was now between <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Harkov</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.45" long="30.523">Kiev</span> .</sentence><sentence id="1758"><span class="COUNTRY" lat="50.45" long="30.523">Kiev</span>...1 think <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.45" long="30.523">Kiev</span> was liberated already.</sentence><sentence id="1759">It was between <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.45" long="30.523">Kiev</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kamenets Podolski</span>, and the Germans are retreating but he said keep a low profile.</sentence><sentence id="1760">Watch out for the Ukrainian, for the Banderoski, he said for the Nationalistic organization.</sentence><sentence id="1761">The time were...the winter of "43-44 was a hard winter.</sentence><sentence id="1762">We stayed with that couple.</sentence><sentence id="1763">We had terrible problems.</sentence><sentence id="1764">Problems mostly of food.</sentence><sentence id="1765">Food was a a major item.</sentence><sentence id="1766">The people had...I don't know...the nearer the front came to us, the friendlier the woman was but the more hostile the man was.</sentence><sentence id="1767">I don't know why.</sentence><sentence id="1768">Uh we dec...we decided quite a few times to leave, but we didn't have a <span class="NPIP">place</span> where to hide.</sentence><sentence id="1769">The <span class="REGION">area</span> was hostile.</sentence><sentence id="1770">The pop...population was hostile.</sentence><sentence id="1771">So we stayed for them.</sentence><sentence id="1772">Anyway when the...in in uh at the end of February the uh we saw already forerunners of the Red army and here our hosts suddenly got extremely friendly.</sentence><sentence id="1773">They came out.</sentence><sentence id="1774">They gave us a couple of new...for me a pair of new pants.</sentence><sentence id="1775">They gave my wife a pair shoes.</sentence><sentence id="1776">We took...uh say goodbye to them.</sentence><sentence id="1777">They...and we started to make our way back toward <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Czernowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1778">In the summer of "44 I decided to join the Polish army and uh I was brought by the Russian, uh one Russian to what <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>...where the front was now in uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="51.248" long="22.57">Lublin</span> (ph) was free.</sentence><sentence id="1779">The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">suburb</span> of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> (ph)...not the Czech Praga but Praga of <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> is a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">suburb</span> of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, was uh uh burning.</sentence><sentence id="1780">There was an uprising, the Polish uprising, not the Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="1781">Jewish took place in "43.</sentence><sentence id="1782">The Polish uprising under uh General Bor Komorowski, which had failed.</sentence><sentence id="1783">The German uh destroyed the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> and we were looking at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> burning.</sentence><sentence id="1784">To tell you the truth, we didn't mind <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> burning.</sentence><sentence id="1785">There was a feeling of...in spite of the hotilit...of the fact that I was now a Polish officer - in that time I was uh I was a Lieutenant, ear, nose and throat man.</sentence><sentence id="1786">I uh...I forgot to mention when we to (ph), he...I...uh again one of these lucky incidents.</sentence><sentence id="1787">I found that the person in charge of organizing the medical corps of the 2nd Army uh Army, Druga Army of Polska, the 1st Polish Army was formed in <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1788">The 2nd Polish Army was formed on <span class="REGION">Polish territory</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1789">There was a man by the name of Lolek Cherzoff (ph), a former friend of mine, a Communist, who was a doctor who had studied in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1790">The only thing not in the...in in in uh <span class="BUILDING">German university</span> but in the <span class="BUILDING">Czech university</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1791">It happened that I had met him in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span>, him and his wife.</sentence><sentence id="1792">She was Anka Silvershatz from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Lodz</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="1793">She wasn't there.</sentence><sentence id="1794">He said she is un...still under the Germans.</sentence><sentence id="1795">He knows only that she is alive and he is going to try her, try to get her out through the Polish underground but not the Armia Kraiowa.</sentence><sentence id="1796">There were two Polish underground, the Armia Ludowa.</sentence><sentence id="1797">That means the people's army, which was leftist.</sentence><sentence id="1798">Here I was in, working in uh .</sentence><sentence id="1799">| was clothed in the Polish uniform.</sentence><sentence id="1800">I was an officer.</sentence><sentence id="1801">I had found a friend who said where would you like to go, but they put into a group, an independent group, an ear, nose and throat and ophthalmology group with my own couple of <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span>, with a group of four soldiers, four four nurses.</sentence><sentence id="1802">We were...the Russians called this group gypsy outfit, Tziganski Outriat (ph), because that group was sent from <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> to <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> to operate the wounded and as soon as they finished their task.</sentence><sentence id="1803">I was assigned in that</sentence><sentence id="1805">1 time to a uh a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> by...small <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> by the name of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Shedlitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1806"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Shedlitz</span> is eighty kilometers south-east of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> where the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> to which I was assigned was called the 22nd Hospital for Light Wounded.</sentence><sentence id="1807">The , in Polish.</sentence><sentence id="1808">And here I stayed until January, until the front...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> was liberated and we went west.</sentence><sentence id="1809">Uh...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1903">Q: Tell me about liberation.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1905">A: It is...you know, we asked ourselves many times...from...we at one point Gusti said to me...I think in "43...you know Fritz (ph), we probably are the only Jews around here.</sentence><sentence id="1906">And it was a very frightening...and we started to discuss how come we are still alive, and in eight, uh in "44 when we were liberated, we we...I thought about it.</sentence><sentence id="1907">I had no money.</sentence><sentence id="1908">We were strangers.</sentence><sentence id="1909">We were foreigners in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1910">Didn't know the language too well.</sentence><sentence id="1911">I didn't know Ukrainian too well.</sentence><sentence id="1912">I didn't know Polish too well.</sentence><sentence id="1913">The only thing I was a physician and I came back to the term which they had called us always...the Romanian physician.</sentence><sentence id="1914">Number one I was a physician.</sentence><sentence id="1915">I was helpful to the population and I remembered what the priest in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Belce</span>, Father had said in his sermon - with the uh local Jews you can do whatever you want.</sentence><sentence id="1916">They regarded us as...yes, we were Jews but we were foreign Jews and we were helpful.</sentence><sentence id="1917">I got, as a doctor as a matter of fact, a very good reputation as an obstetrician.</sentence><sentence id="1918">I was not qualified to be an obstetrician.</sentence><sentence id="1919">I got once a call to a delivery where the woman had been in labor three days, and I was very...I wanted...I was reluctant to go there because I felt I'm not qualified.</sentence><sentence id="1920">When I came there I checked the woman.</sentence><sentence id="1921">You know, you have to do something, and I made the diagnosis that the child had what they call in this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> in obstetrics a rim (ph) of the cervix around the head.</sentence><sentence id="1922">It was...that means it was almost fully dilated and while I was checking her she had one good contraction and out came a baby boy, yelling.</sentence><sentence id="1923">The whole excitement with the delivery, number one it was a baby boy.</sentence><sentence id="1924">It was a luck to be a crying baby, you know, and the doctor had just...they gave me the credit.</sentence><sentence id="1925">I was just an innocent by- stander there but I got the reputation as a as a fine, good obstetrician.</sentence><sentence id="1926">Undeserved I have to say, but I got that reputation and I certainly wasn't going to refuse the food which they gave me for that call, because we needed it very badly, so uh coming back why we survived.</sentence><sentence id="1927">No money, no language, foreigners, but I was a doctor and this had helped.</sentence><sentence id="1928">It had helped.</sentence><sentence id="1929">Luck.</sentence><sentence id="1930">I would say 99.9% the element of luck helped us in our survival.</sentence><sentence id="1931">Who has the...basically, you needed only a couple of people or one person to find who is friendly toward you.</sentence><sentence id="1932">I met Mr. Zarevski from the Polish underground.</sentence><sentence id="1933">He was going to use me for his purpose as a courier, you know, to <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, but I had somebody who stood, who who who trusted me.</sentence><sentence id="1934">Somebody who wanted to help.</sentence><sentence id="1935">True, I should do things for them, but who, where in the world do you find such a a uh lucky person.</sentence><sentence id="1936">Number two, Vasia_.</sentence><sentence id="1937">He picked me up.</sentence><sentence id="1938">I didn't look, I didn't know him, and again, how well do you know Russian?</sentence><sentence id="1939">How well do you know the northern part of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bukovina</span>, because from there we were to get to the <span class="DLF">border</span> with no problem, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1940">You could.</sentence><sentence id="1941">They, they had contact with people, but beyond they...you know, they needed somebody...here there was somebody who who could manage and I felt in that time I could manage and then I was young, was in pretty good shape.</sentence><sentence id="1942">I was always a sportsman.</sentence><sentence id="1943">Uh I wouldn't say I was adventurous, but I was daring to a certain degree.</sentence><sentence id="1944">Why was I daring?</sentence><sentence id="1945">Because I had to.</sentence><sentence id="1946">I had to.</sentence><sentence id="1947">How many times in our, in our uh uh in the</sentence><sentence id="1949">2 <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, I came to a point, it's right and left.</sentence><sentence id="1950">There is no sign where it says where to go.</sentence><sentence id="1951">There were no people there to ask where to go.</sentence><sentence id="1952">Luck.</sentence><sentence id="1953">Luck, again, again.</sentence><sentence id="1954">Many times when I went to uh wrong I had to go back and go, you know, because it uh that part led me into a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">community</span> and we tried to stay away from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">communities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1955">The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">population</span> was hostile.</sentence><sentence id="1956">You needed only one or two persons who were friendly, who were able to...or not able...willing.99.9% luck.</sentence><sentence id="1957">That if they caught us, there was no question.</sentence><sentence id="1958">We had left our friends.</sentence><sentence id="1959">Doctor Gabriel Zinreich still in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span> and they hoped, they felt that what I'm doing and Gusti is, has no chance.</sentence><sentence id="1960">I knew that my chances were uh small, but my point of view was I'm going to try.</sentence><sentence id="1961">At least try.</sentence><sentence id="1962">To give in without trying, I wasn't going to do it.</sentence><sentence id="1963">No.</sentence><sentence id="1964">And uh as uh you know, it's the results which count and uh coming to this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, I tried, we tried to push that experience aside.</sentence><sentence id="1965">Very very uh uh convinced that we...in order to grow roots in this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, we have to put our experience and not to think about it.</sentence><sentence id="1966">Many things have to be accomplished.</sentence><sentence id="1967">Very eagerly a family, and when we found...Gusti had seven pregnancies and she, in these seven pregnancies...she had no problem getting pregnant.</sentence><sentence id="1968">She had problems carrying the baby.</sentence><sentence id="1969">She...the first baby uh was six months, then five and a half months, four and a half months...but we are talking not about the times today where you have a well- equipped pre uh uh...a baby with a premature nursery.</sentence><sentence id="1970">In that time they didn't have <span class="BUILDING">premature nursery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1971">We had one baby alive in 1971, and the baby...the chief of the anesthesia department came to me and said Fred, we know your history.</sentence><sentence id="1972">Uh you lost so many...uh the baby was two and a half pounds.</sentence><sentence id="1973">It...a two and a half pound baby in that time...I recessitated the baby myself.</sentence><sentence id="1974">As an anesthesiologist I am equipped to do it and it was a baby with a good sucking reflex and some and I wanted to keep...if I could have kept that baby even in my <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, it was a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Brooklyn</span>, St. John's Street and, or St. John's Avenue, and uh it uh it may have survived.</sentence><sentence id="1975">He convinced me to send the baby to <span class="BUILDING">Baby's hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1976">He said this <span class="BUILDING">Presbyterian hospital</span>, the finest <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">New York</span>, and there in order to to feed the baby they the baby.</sentence><sentence id="1977">They put a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tube</span> and, but again, here we are in 1951.</sentence><sentence id="1978">The tube was not uh...it was a polyethylene tube and in that time they may have been short of polyethylene tubes because they they uh uh sterilized it, by changing every second or third day, by boiling it.</sentence><sentence id="1979">Polyethylene uh in that time when you boil it, it gets stiff like a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">board</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1980">And in their uh in their uh procedures they perforated the stomach of the baby, and while they were feeding the baby the the belly of the baby got bigger and bigger and one day I get a call from the chief resident.</sentence><sentence id="1981">He was a Swedish uh resident.</sentence><sentence id="1982">He said Dr. Bernard, we'll have to operate on the baby.</sentence><sentence id="1983">I say why do you have to operate...it was five days later, or six days later.</sentence><sentence id="1984">She said we took an x-ray.</sentence><sentence id="1985">We put some uh some uh radio-opaque material, and we found the tube was not in the stomach but was in the <span class="INT_SPACE">abdominal cavity</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1986">That means you have a perforated stomach.</sentence><sentence id="1987">They operated on the baby, and was a healthy, fighting baby, and uh but small, premature, and uh the baby survived surgery for two days and died of generalized :</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2075">Q: OK.</sentence><sentence id="2076">We're at the end of the tape.</sentence><sentence id="2077">We'll stop.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2081">A: Alright.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="2082">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="2085">3 Tape #3</sentence></p><p><sentence id="2086">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2087">A: I would like to mention a uh an event which occurred to me in 1943, which really didn't make sense to me uh in that time but it came so spontaneous.</sentence><sentence id="2088">Gusti and I were standing <span class="NPIP">outside</span> our uh our uh <span class="NPIP">hiding place</span>, uh some two hundred, three hundred feet away from it, and there was a (ph) in front of, to the right, to the left of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">trees</span>, and on that (ph) there was a shepherd with...I don't know if they were sheep.</sentence><sentence id="2089">It may have been uh goats, but it was such a pastoral scene that I started to sing...I started to sing a song by Schubert (ph), Shafer's klage lied (ph)_.</sentence><sentence id="2090">This is uh uh the shepherd's uh song, but he's complaining, you know.</sentence><sentence id="2091">And I knew the words from a child, that , and so on and so on, and I was singing it.</sentence><sentence id="2092"><span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Gusti</span> turned around.</sentence><sentence id="2093">She looked at me and said, I don't know...we are not only refugees.</sentence><sentence id="2094">We are so much of zurah (ph).</sentence><sentence id="2095">We have nothing to eat.</sentence><sentence id="2096">We don't know what's going...and here you are standing and singing Schubert's uh Shafer's klage lied.</sentence><sentence id="2097">I said it it it brought back something here which I cannot explain but to be in the middle of of that <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>...without Jews, you know, where the the <span class="REGION">area</span> is Juden rein (ph) and to start singing a Schubert song...there must be an emotional uh substrata which which had its effect.</sentence><sentence id="2098">Uh I would like to come back to the element of evaluation of the attitude of the Red Army.</sentence><sentence id="2099">It is something which we found, and we discussed it in the Pole...while in the Polish Army among ourselves...we were a group of Jewish physicians there and uh when the Ger...the Red Army went back in 1941 under the uh German pounding, they...it was an army...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2113">Q: Mr. Bernard, we're going to run out of so much time...we'd want to discuss the liberation and your coming to <span class="COUNTRY">America</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2115">A: Isee.</sentence><sentence id="2116">Alright.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2119">Q: Sorry to do that...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2121">A: Alright.</sentence><sentence id="2122">Uh...coming to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> as uh we came in the winter of "49-"50.</sentence><sentence id="2123">It was a cold winter for us.</sentence><sentence id="2124">We were new in this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2125">We had to learn a language.</sentence><sentence id="2126">I had to prepare myself to to to pass an English exam, which I did after three months, and I had to submit my credentials to the Department of Education in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Albany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2127">I was admitted to the to take the exam uh without an internship because I had graduated before 1940 and I could show that I had a residency of two and a half years in uh ear, nose and throat and surgery.</sentence><sentence id="2128">Uh I took the exam.</sentence><sentence id="2129">I was lucky to pass the first time and uh after a year only in this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> I found myself to have the license to practice medicine but I felt I would like to go into an <span class="BUILDING">American hospital</span> to take an internship, and during the internship I really fell into anethethsia which in that time was a new specialty uh with all the challenges and uh since I liked challenges in life always I felt I might find, I may find in this specialty uh more satisfaction.</sentence><sentence id="2130">I spent the last forty years or thirty-nine years in this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> in the <span class="INT_SPACE">operating room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2131">I uh...my work has been found to be quite satisfactory.</sentence><sentence id="2132">I was lucky to be uh to be uh nominated director of a</sentence><sentence id="2134">4 department since 1961.</sentence><sentence id="2135">I uh...when I retired in 1985, uh from the from the practice of medicine, having arrived at the age of seventy-three and uh at Saint uh Saint uh Saint Joseph's Hospital in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Queens</span> uh the depart...the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> administration was very appreciative of my of my uh, not of my retirement but of my actions.</sentence><sentence id="2136">They gave me a very as every retiree, a golden watch and uh they uh rented, uh the staff rented a uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">yacht</span>, the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Riveranda</span> (ph).</sentence><sentence id="2137">Invited the whole staff of the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> and we traveled, you know, around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Manhattan</span>, so it was really a very appreciative gesture.</sentence><sentence id="2138">Uh I had the...I invited...my family was invited to that retirement party and uh I really cherished that thought.</sentence><sentence id="2139">During these thirty-nine years, I would say I uh performed probably close to over twenty thousand procedures.</sentence><sentence id="2140">Uh I uh handled probably seventy percent of our staff, doctors, families...we had a staff of around four hundred physicians and uh unfortunately in 1970 I lost my first wife to uh cancer of the breast.</sentence><sentence id="2141">Adele (ph) happened to be a neighbor of ours and our children grew up together.</sentence><sentence id="2142">She had two sons, has two sons and my two adopted children, Robert and Linda, grew up together with her children.</sentence><sentence id="2143">We found ourselves uh, you know, being thrown together in "74 and uh got married in "77.</sentence><sentence id="2144">Adele retired from her work.</sentence><sentence id="2145">She was a college professor.</sentence><sentence id="2146">She taught education and early childhood at <span class="BUILDING">City University</span> in New York, <span class="BUILDING">College</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2175">Q: Thank you very much.</sentence><sentence id="2176">I think you've covered everything.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2179">A: Thank you for telling the story and bringing a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korolovka</span>, into the history of the Holocaust.</sentence><sentence id="2180">I still think it was necessary.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2183">Q: Thank you for sharing it with us.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2185">A: Thank you.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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