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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: jeanine gutman butnaru |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0050 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0050_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504549 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1925-06-25 |
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birth_year: 1925.0 |
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place_of_birth: bacău |
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country: romania |
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experience_group: survivor,resistance |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.382.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: jeanine gutman butnaru |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0050 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0050_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504549 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1925-06-25 |
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birth_year: 1925.0 |
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place_of_birth: bacău |
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country: romania |
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experience_group: survivor,resistance |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.382.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">JENINE BUTNARU May 5, 1990</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: Would you tell me your name, please?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: Yah, sure.</sentence><sentence id="6">Uh, my name is Jenine Butnaru.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="9">Q: Where were your born, and when?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="11">A: I was born in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, near the city of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bac_u</span>, uh June 25th, 1925.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="13">Q: Tell me about your family--about your parents, first.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="15">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="16">My parents uh...uh lived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bac_u</span>.</sentence><sentence id="17">My mother was not originally from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bac_u</span>, [but] from another smaller <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="18">But when she got married, she moved to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bac_u</span> with my father.</sentence><sentence id="19">They had a <span class="BUILDING">grocery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="20">And my mother used to help my father.</sentence><sentence id="21">They were working together.</sentence><sentence id="22">Uh, my father was a--how to say?</sentence><sentence id="23">A very special person.</sentence><sentence id="24">Uh, not because I am his daughter; but uh everybody used to say the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="25">He was a very good and uh kind, and very...Uh, a man who helped everybody, whenever everyone needed something, you know.</sentence><sentence id="26">He could...you could wake him up at midnight or 2 o'clock in the morning.</sentence><sentence id="27">And uh if he was called to help somebody, or to...to bring something to somebody, or you know to call a doctor or something; he would do anything for everybody and anybody.</sentence><sentence id="28">He was really a very good-at-heart uh man.</sentence><sentence id="29">And he suffered a lot during his lifetime, because he fought in the...the First War...World War...World War (laughter) First... Okay.</sentence><sentence id="30">And he was just on the first uh <span class="DLF">line</span> of the <span class="DLF">battlefield</span>.</sentence><sentence id="31">He was decorated uh on the <span class="DLF">battlefield</span>, you know; and he was wounded at a certain moment.</sentence><sentence id="32">And um...he was taken uh prisoner, as a prisoner.</sentence><sentence id="33">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="34">And when uh...well, when the [First] World War was over, he came back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bac_u</span>, his native <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="35">Uh... uh, they were uh a big family.</sentence><sentence id="36">They were 10 children--uh, two girls and eight brothers.</sentence><sentence id="37">Uh, well, my father had a stepmother; because uh the first wife of my grandfather uh passed away.</sentence><sentence id="38">So my grandfather remarried, so they had more children.</sentence><sentence id="39">So...but she was a very good mother for my husb...for my father, too.</sentence><sentence id="40">Excuse me.</sentence><sentence id="41">Uh, and they lived all in the same <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="42">Now, most of them are now in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence><sentence id="43">They emigrated during the years.</sentence><sentence id="44">And um...he was very close to...to his family, to his brothers and sisters.</sentence><sentence id="45">And um...when the Second World War broke out, you know, uh we were already in...we moved to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> in "38. [</sentence><sentence id="46">In] 1938, we moved to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="47">Uh, my father has been very sick, very ill; and uh he lost everything--his <span class="BUILDING">shop</span>, everything.</sentence><sentence id="48">So we moved to...to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="49">And um...he got a job, a very small job, over there; because he was very sick before.</sentence><sentence id="50">And um...we went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="51">My sister--I have an older sister, two years older than myself.</sentence><sentence id="52">Excuse me--than myself.</sentence><sentence id="53">And um...then when, you know, the Fascists came to power and the...all the Jewish students and youngster were uh thrown out from all the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>, all grades of the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>, uh we went to this <span class="BUILDING">Jewish schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="54">And um...that were organized uh...then, at that time.</sentence><sentence id="55">Because uh the young people, they had...there were this dreadful measures against Jewish people and Jewish students.</sentence><sentence id="56">They had to go uh...in uh to...to the labor...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">labor camps</span>, most of the youngster.</sentence><sentence id="57">And um...they weren't allowed to...to be in the <span class="BUILDING">state school</span> anymore.</sentence><sentence id="58">So a whole system of <span class="BUILDING">school</span> had to be organized and put up, in order to fit in all these Jewish students and pupils--from <span class="BUILDING">kindergarten</span> to <span class="BUILDING">elementary schools</span> to <span class="BUILDING">high school</span> and <span class="BUILDING">colleges</span>.</sentence><sentence id="59">And um...the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jewish community</span>, uh they...uh had the very bright uh leaders.</sentence><sentence id="60">And um...they organized all this, all this...the system of <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> for everybody.</sentence><sentence id="61">Every student and child.</sentence><sentence id="62">And they printed books, schoolbooks.</sentence><sentence id="63">They printed university courses.</sentence><sentence id="64">And um...they uh...organized this...this classes.</sentence><sentence id="65">So we went to this uh Jewish... I went to <span class="BUILDING">Jewish high school</span>; and my sister, and everybody.</sentence><sentence id="66">It was very hard at the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="67">Because they were not... You know, it was the beginning of this uh <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="68">And they had teachers, Jewish teachers; because the Jewish teachers were not allowed to...to teach in the <span class="BUILDING">state schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="69">Uh, very high level teachers.</sentence><sentence id="70">And um...but they had to rent, you know, <span class="INT_SPACE">apartments</span> or <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span> for the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="71">Uh, they organized the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> in some old <span class="BUILDING">synagogues</span> or old <span class="BUILDING">Jewish schools</span>, or just rented some other uh...uh <span class="INT_SPACE">apartments</span> for the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="72">So it was quite uh hard to adjust.</sentence><sentence id="73">But the teachers were so good.</sentence><sentence id="74">And everybody was so willing to...to learn, you know, and to...to be at the same level with the other students.</sentence><sentence id="75">And besides, uh the <span class="BUILDING">synagogues</span> uh played a big role in uh keeping the uh Jewish tradition and culture and spirit, you know.</sentence><sentence id="76">So they organized all kinds of uh meetings and festivals.</sentence><sentence id="77">And um... Not just religious, uh from the point of view of religion; but culture in the same times.</sentence><sentence id="78">You know, tradition.</sentence><sentence id="79">And uh they had uh...you know, uh chorus--a music uh chorus, with students.</sentence><sentence id="80">And um...it was a place where we met, you know, and were able to discuss all our...all our, you know, disappointments and sufferings.</sentence><sentence id="81">And um...uh then they organized uh this uh...some <span class="BUILDING">professional schools</span> and courses.</sentence><sentence id="82">Because uh they said, "Well, if not all the students will be able to attend the <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>, at least they should have a profession later on."</sentence><sentence id="83">So they organized all kind of professional uh courses.</sentence><sentence id="84">And um...you know, technical, electrical--like to be a tailor, or to be a carpenter, or to be a shoemaker.</sentence><sentence id="85">And I went to a course of uh bookbinding.</sentence><sentence id="86">I took a course of [this], because I like to read, (laughing) you know, and being related more to this.</sentence><sentence id="87">So L...1 went to take this course.</sentence><sentence id="88">And besides they organized the <span class="BUILDING">clinic</span>.</sentence><sentence id="89">How to say, <span class="BUILDING">polyclinic</span>--<span class="BUILDING">health center--</span> for the Jewish people.</sentence><sentence id="90">Because uh they couldn't go to be treated anymore to the state uh <span class="BUILDING">health centers</span>.</sentence><sentence id="91">So they organized.</sentence><sentence id="92">And uh, you know, the best doctors and surgeons were treat...treating these people, sick people--Jewish sick people.</sentence><sentence id="93">And in the same time, they organized the...around this <span class="BUILDING">health center</span>, uh medical courses for medical students.</sentence><sentence id="94">So they were able to attend these courses. (</sentence><sentence id="95">Sigh)</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="178">Q: Tell me what...what your parents were doing during this time.</sentence><sentence id="179">And what was your daily life like as a family?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="182">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="183">Well, as I said, we...we went to all the holidays, to the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, to all the festivals.</sentence><sentence id="184">Um, they tried, you know, to...to make the best of the life that was, you know, going on that time.</sentence><sentence id="185">And um...they had a lot of frustration, of course.</sentence><sentence id="186">You know, because uh...uh they felt like pariah, you know, among other people.</sentence><sentence id="187">You know, everybody feeled... felt the same.</sentence><sentence id="188">And um...we tried to be as much as possible together with our friends and family, of course.</sentence><sentence id="189">And um...you know, not to...to suffer of spiritually too much, you know.</sentence><sentence id="190">And um...they tried to...to help us, you know, with, you know, what we needed to have; everything we needed, you know, our parents.</sentence><sentence id="191">So they didn't have too many meals at that time, you know, in this period of time.</sentence><sentence id="192">Because they lost almost everything.</sentence><sentence id="193">And besides, because my father had a...a <span class="BUILDING">store</span>, you know, uh they were obliged to give to the state and to the army uh clothes and food.</sentence><sentence id="194">You know, I remember.</sentence><sentence id="195">I was, you know, still quite young.</sentence><sentence id="196">Uh, my parents had to buy; you know, they...they loaded two big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">couches</span>...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coaches</span>...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriages</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">coaches</span>, with, you know, clothes--all kinds of clothes and boots and winter coats--and food and everything.</sentence><sentence id="197">Uh, you know, they [NB: the Romanian government] said that uh due to the fact that they [NB: her parents] had a...a grocery--they had a <span class="BUILDING">shop</span>, you know--they must have been very uh...at least rich or something like this.</sentence><sentence id="198">So they had to...to give a lot of things.</sentence><sentence id="199">Really, they had to buy new things, just new things.</sentence><sentence id="200">Not, you know, old things--clothes, or... So then, you know, linen for <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span> and pillows and um...comforters and um...all kinds of things, you know.</sentence><sentence id="201">Because they were sent uh on the battlefields, for the army on the front.</sentence><sentence id="202">Anyway.</sentence><sentence id="203">So it was uh really hard for them.</sentence><sentence id="204">Really hard for them.</sentence><sentence id="205">But they had to do it.</sentence><sentence id="206">They were obliged, you know, to do this.</sentence><sentence id="207">And um besides, uh all the Jews were obliged, you know, to clean the <span class="DLF">streets</span> from the snow.</sentence><sentence id="208">To, you know, to uh do all kinds of uh "city work," how to say, you know.</sentence><sentence id="209">But especially the Jews were put to clean the <span class="DLF">streets</span> and the snow; and to...to keep clean everything, you know, in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="210">Which was, you know, hard for older people like my...my parents.</sentence><sentence id="211">Nothing for younger people; but it was harder for older people to do things like this.</sentence><sentence id="212">And besides, you were always afraid that somebody will knock at your <span class="DLF">door</span>.</sentence><sentence id="213">And, you know, there were so many people arrested, you know, for no reason.</sentence><sentence id="214">And uh you always lived in a kind of terror, you know; scared that somebody will... When you heard the uh bell ringing, you were scared who...who could be.</sentence><sentence id="215">You know, you were afraid somebody would come and take your father, take your mother, arrest you.</sentence><sentence id="216">And um...this was the way of life, then.</sentence><sentence id="217">And um...as I said, uh they put up this uh very good <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> and <span class="BUILDING">colleges</span> and <span class="BUILDING">universities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="218">Were uh brilliant teachers, you know.</sentence><sentence id="219">They organized even a uh...uh, how to say, uh medical uh...uh <span class="BUILDING">college of medicine</span>...<span class="BUILDING">college of medicine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="220">Was a brilliant teachers.</sentence><sentence id="221">Very well known teachers.</sentence><sentence id="222">And the leaders of the Jewish communities, you know, who were in the uh...the underground resistance movement in...in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>.</sentence><sentence id="223">You know, they did...they organized all this.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="266">Q: Did you have any contact with this underground resistance?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="268">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="269">Of course!</sentence><sentence id="270">Of course!</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="274">Q: Tell me about that.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="276">A: Because the Chief Rabbi, it was Alexander Safran the Chief Rabbi of <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, at that time.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="277">It was a very well known Zionist and activist and leader--uh, Dr. [Wilhelm] Filderman.</sentence><sentence id="278">It was another one, Benvenisti."</sentence><sentence id="279">Then it was one who was called uh...[{Unescu (ph), Marcu Unescu (ph)].</sentence><sentence id="280">He organized the best <span class="BUILDING">college</span> for students on every <span class="DLF">field</span>.</sentence><sentence id="281">It was called uh...uh (Unescu (ph)] College, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="282">And um...</sentence></p><p><sentence id="283">" Misu Benvenisti was president of the local Zionist Organization and a member of the underground Jewish Council organized by Dr. Wilhelm Filderman.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="284">Q: Maybe I'm not clear.</sentence><sentence id="285">My...my question is, did you have any contact with this underground?</sentence></p><p><sentence id="286">Were you involved in helping with any of it?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="287">A: Uh, yah.</sentence><sentence id="288">You know how we were involved?</sentence><sentence id="289">We uh...we worked as volunteers.</sentence><sentence id="290">Uh, in the <span class="BUILDING">hospitals</span>--<span class="BUILDING">Jewish hospitals</span>--doing all kinds of...you know, of work it was uh needed.</sentence><sentence id="291">Uh, I worked serving in the <span class="BUILDING">canteens</span>, you know, where poor people, you know, they didn't have what...where to eat, what to eat.</sentence><sentence id="292">And they organized these <span class="BUILDING">canteens</span>.</sentence><sentence id="293">And we worked as volunteers through this underground organization.</sentence><sentence id="294">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="295">You know, in the <span class="BUILDING">hospitals</span>, in this <span class="BUILDING">canteens</span>.</sentence><sentence id="296">Uh... In <span class="BUILDING">libraries</span>, <span class="BUILDING">Jewish libraries</span>, we used to work.</sentence><sentence id="297">But I worked in a <span class="BUILDING">canteen</span>, and I worked in a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="298">Yah, just as volunteers.</sentence><sentence id="299">Besides going to this uh binding book courses and going to <span class="BUILDING">high school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="300">You know, besides this, uh I worked as a volunteers for a few years.</sentence><sentence id="301">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="317">Q: When did things begin to change for you?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="319">A: Well, after "44.</sentence><sentence id="320">Uh, when, you know, the war was over and uh we were liberated.</sentence><sentence id="321">Because we were in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>, in uh...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="325">Q: Wait a minute.</sentence><sentence id="326">Excuse me.</sentence><sentence id="327">I'm unclear.</sentence><sentence id="328">You had said some... Let's go back...before "44.</sentence><sentence id="329">You told me earlier that in 1941 you were in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="330">Uh, were you there during the uh massacre of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="337">A: Oh, yah.</sentence><sentence id="338">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="339">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="340">During the rebellion in "41.</sentence><sentence id="341">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="347">Q: Let's talk... Talk about 1941.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="349">A: Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="351">Q: What happened?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="353">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="354">The...you know, the...the fascist Legionnaires--or they were called the Organization Green Shirts--uh, they were very antisemitic, of course.</sentence><sentence id="355">They organized this rebellion in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ia_i</span> and other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="356">And they killed a lot of Jewish people, and they put fire to their <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> and to their <span class="BUILDING">stores</span>.</sentence><sentence id="357">And um...it was really a terror for the Jewish...uh...the Jewish people.</sentence><sentence id="358">Really.</sentence><sentence id="359">We were scared.</sentence><sentence id="360">We had to stay all the time, almost, <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="361">You know, we were scared to walk on the <span class="DLF">streets</span>.</sentence><sentence id="362">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="363">And um...we were not allowed to do anything, really; to participate in anything, or to do anything.</sentence><sentence id="364">Because uh they could kill us.</sentence><sentence id="365">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="379">Q: Can you describe what happened as they came through?</sentence><sentence id="380">As the Legionnaires came through, what did you do?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="381">A: Uh... We...we just uh...you know, we couldn't do nothing, really.</sentence><sentence id="382">You know, we tried through this Jewish organization to...to do something with this underground resistance organizations.</sentence><sentence id="383">Uh, to help, as I said--going to <span class="BUILDING">hospitals</span>, [as] volunteers, or going to uh...to the <span class="BUILDING">canteens</span> to serve.</sentence><sentence id="384">And um...going to this uh <span class="BUILDING">Jewish school</span> that they organized.</sentence><sentence id="385">Because we were young.</sentence><sentence id="386">I was young, anyway.</sentence><sentence id="387">You know, I couldn't do uh something uh different.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="395">Because it was very dangerous, first of all.</sentence><sentence id="396">And we were not allowed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="399">Q: During the massacre of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>...</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="401">A: Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="403">Q: ...was there a... Did you see a lot of burning?</sentence><sentence id="404">Did you see any of the killing?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="407">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="408">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="409">L...I...we saw at the <span class="BUILDING">morgue</span>... You know, we went to the <span class="BUILDING">morgue</span>, where around there we saw people standing in <span class="DLF">line</span> to recognize people who were killed.</sentence><sentence id="410">And we saw a lot of uh <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">corpses</span>.</sentence><sentence id="411">You know, bringing in corpses all the time.</sentence><sentence id="412">And I saw all this fires going all over, you know, this burning.</sentence><sentence id="413">The whole <span class="DLF">street</span> was burning.</sentence><sentence id="414">And it was not far from our <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, because I could see the flames on the...on the <span class="DLF">sky</span> from our <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="415">How they put fire to all the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> and the <span class="BUILDING">stores</span> of the Jewish people in this <span class="REGION">Jewish area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="416">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="427">Q: How long did the massacre last?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="429">A: Uh, it uh lasted uh a few days.</sentence><sentence id="430">A few days in January.</sentence><sentence id="431">January "41.</sentence><sentence id="432">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="437">Q: What did you do after it was over?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="439">A: Uh, after it was over... Well, everybody started, you know, to...to look around.</sentence><sentence id="440">To see what...what happened.</sentence><sentence id="441">And life started to, you know, to resume its...how to say, its way.</sentence><sentence id="442">Or its normal...in a way, normal way, you know.</sentence><sentence id="443">But it was a very hard period of time.</sentence><sentence id="444">It was after such a terror, you know.</sentence><sentence id="445">And um...such a scare period of time, scareful period of time, for everybody.</sentence><sentence id="446">And then, you know, they...the other, the Antonescu government, you know, he took the power.</sentence><sentence id="447">So things changed, in a way, a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="448">You know, not they ...it was better for the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="449">But uh anyway uh they were no more killing after the...the Legionnaires, you know, uh uh were no more in power.</sentence><sentence id="450">But it was another hard period for...for the Jewish people with even under Antonescu, until "44; because they were again...against the Jewish people, you know.</sentence><sentence id="451">There were all these deportations, and um...all the...the uh measures against the Jewish people, you know.</sentence><sentence id="452">The Jewish population in general.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="467">Q: Can you tell me about the deportations?</sentence><sentence id="468">What did you see?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="471">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="472">Uh, we lived in...in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="473">And from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>, uh uh not many people were deported from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="474">From other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="475">A lot of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="476">And from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bessarabia</span>, and from the part of uh...the <span class="DLF">border</span> with <span class="COUNTRY">Hungaria</span> [NB: <span class="COUNTRY">Hungary</span>], uh many, many Jewish people were deported.</sentence><sentence id="477">From <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> itself, not too many were deported.</sentence><sentence id="478">I don't know how we escaped in this way, you know.</sentence><sentence id="479">We didn't escape the bombardments, for instance.</sentence><sentence id="480">In "44, when the American came...before the Russian came to liberate <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, uh...the Americans started to bombard the <span class="DLF">railroads</span>.</sentence><sentence id="481">And there's a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> where--uh uh <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ploie_ti</span>, where is uh the oil, you know-- because they wanted to...uh they didn't want to allow the Germans, you know, to advance to...to do... They had to cut the Germans [off].</sentence><sentence id="482">So the Russians came, and the Germans left.</sentence><sentence id="483">So they uh tried to cut.</sentence><sentence id="484">They bombarded the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, not to give the Germans the necessary oil to fight uh farther, you know.</sentence><sentence id="485">So we had big bombardments even in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="501">Q: What did you do?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="503">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="504">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="505">We...we stayed there in the <span class="INT_SPACE">cellars</span> all the time, you know, with pots and pans over our heads.</sentence><sentence id="506">And scared to death, really.</sentence><sentence id="507">Because they were heavy bombardments.</sentence><sentence id="508">Because as I said, beside the <span class="REGION">oil areas</span>--uh, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ploie_ti</span> is a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> very close to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="509">Very close.</sentence><sentence id="510">And so they crossed...you know, they flew over <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> to go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ploie_ti</span>, you know; and from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ploie_ti</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="511">And to cut the...the Germans--who were, you know, advancing.</sentence><sentence id="512">And um...so they bombard <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ploie_ti</span> and other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span>.</sentence><sentence id="513">So it was very, very scary, and very... You...you could be killed.</sentence><sentence id="514">We spent almost all the time in the <span class="INT_SPACE">cellars</span>.</sentence><sentence id="515">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="516">The bombs were fall...falling, you know, very close to our <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="531">Q: Tell us about what happened after that.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="533">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="534">After uh then, the Russian, uh they liberated.</sentence><sentence id="535">So we said, "Now, we'll have freedom.</sentence><sentence id="536">And our life will be much better and easier."</sentence><sentence id="537">You know, the Communists, they came to power.</sentence><sentence id="538">Of course, it was better in a way.</sentence><sentence id="539">But uh still, you know, um...you couldn't uh be very happy.</sentence><sentence id="540">Because uh it was for a certain period of time was better for Jew...the Jewish people, because they could get jobs and they could uh, you know, have some uh, how to say, "opportunities," you know, to work and to...to have a little bit a better life.</sentence><sentence id="541">But then, it was again uh hard...hard.</sentence><sentence id="542">Because they started to...to close, you know; to uh give less uh opportunities and um "advantages," how to say, you know, for the Jewish people.</sentence><sentence id="543">So we started to think, you know, for the future of our daughter, especially, you know.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="555">Q: Wait.</sentence><sentence id="556">Let's back up, because I didn't know you'd gotten married.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="559">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="560">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="561">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="565">Q: Tell us about meeting your husband.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="567">A: Yah.</sentence><sentence id="568">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="569">I was uh... I was um working at the Writer's Association in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span> for many years.</sentence><sentence id="570">And my husband, he was a writer.</sentence><sentence id="571">He worked in this <span class="DLF">field</span>--you know, <span class="DLF">culture field</span>.</sentence><sentence id="572">So he came over there.</sentence><sentence id="573">And so we met at the Writer's Union.</sentence><sentence id="574">And then, after two years we got married.</sentence><sentence id="575">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="576">And um we...we had our daughter.</sentence><sentence id="577">And then, we said... We couldn't leave earlier, because my parents have been very sick.</sentence><sentence id="578">My father died, then my mother was very sick.</sentence><sentence id="579">So we couldn't leave earlier.</sentence><sentence id="580">We wanted to leave earlier, but we had to stay with my mother.</sentence><sentence id="581">You know, we couldn't leave her.</sentence><sentence id="582">Because my sister, she left before, the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="583">And um...when we heard... You know, after my mother died...after almost two years, we...we left the <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="584">We...we uh started, we...we decided to emigrate, you know.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="603">Q: And this was in what <span class="NPIP">year</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="605">A: In "76.</sentence><sentence id="606">Yah.</sentence><sentence id="607">In "76, we came here.</sentence><sentence id="608">So, as I said, for uh...we are not anymore young people.</sentence><sentence id="609">And it's hard to start from the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="610">So...but we saw just that our daughter wouldn't have any...any future, you know.</sentence><sentence id="611">Because they always asked about your background, if you want to go...she wanted to go uh to uh the <span class="BUILDING">university</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="612">Uh, they...the Communists always said, you know, "Your background is not good.</sentence><sentence id="613">You are not from uh workers, you know..."background," how to say, you know."</sentence><sentence id="614">If you are intellectual or something, or if your parents had a <span class="BUILDING">shop</span>, you know, it means you are not good uh citizens, how to say.</sentence><sentence id="615">Not the right uh level.</sentence><sentence id="616">So it would have been very, very hard for her to get into the <span class="BUILDING">university</span>, you know, to...to learn, to study.</sentence><sentence id="617">And um...we said that uh we have to think at her future, you know.</sentence><sentence id="618">And that's why we decided to...to leave.</sentence><sentence id="619">It was hard to start from the beginning, and at our age.</sentence><sentence id="620">But for..just for her, we decided that we have to leave.</sentence><sentence id="621">And we are really very glad that here she had the opportunity.</sentence><sentence id="622">And she could go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and um...uh study and um...It's really a great <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, where if somebody works hard and wants to achieve something, you know.</sentence><sentence id="623">And you have all the opportunities and all the uh <span class="DLF">doors</span> open, how to say.</sentence><sentence id="624">And um...uh regardless of your beliefs or, you know, race or whatever, you can really achieve whatever you want if you really want and work hard, you know.</sentence><sentence id="625">And the freedom, that's something that it's the first, you know, the most uh...uh wonderful thing, you know, that you can have, really.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="648">Q: Is there anything you want to add?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="650">A: Uh, well, that's uh...I'm...we are really very happy here, and um we are very uh grateful that uh this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>, you know, allowed us to...to come here and um to...to work and to be free.</sentence><sentence id="651">And um...for our daughter to...to achieve something, you know, to do whatever she wanted to do and to...to be able to raise a family.</sentence><sentence id="652">And uh to speak whatever you...you...to speak your mind, how you say.</sentence><sentence id="653">You know, to say whatever.</sentence><sentence id="654">In <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span>, you were afraid to talk, you know.</sentence><sentence id="655">You are...are always uh under the uh threat that somebody is going to hear you and will tell the security; and you will be arrested, you know, and put uh into <span class="BUILDING">prison</span>, into <span class="BUILDING">jail</span>.</sentence><sentence id="656">And here, you have freedom of speech, and of everything, you know.</sentence><sentence id="657">Uh, whatever you think, you can uh fight for your uh beliefs, you know.</sentence><sentence id="658">For whatever you...you...you feel you like to...to do or to say.</sentence><sentence id="659">Yah.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="670">Q: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="671">Thank you very much.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="674">A: Thank you.</sentence><sentence id="675">Thank you.</sentence><sentence id="676">PHOTOGRAPHS Q) Six men in uniform, circa 1919.</sentence><sentence id="677">At the far left, is Jenine's father.</sentence><sentence id="678">She explains that he was taken prisoner, along with his comrades, during World War I. (2) Six young people in street clothes--four women and two men.</sentence><sentence id="679">Jenine is on the far right of the picture; the others are her colleagues.</sentence><sentence id="680">The picture was taken in 1945 in a <span class="DLF">park</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bucharest</span>. (</sentence><sentence id="681">3) A young woman and a young girl--Jenine and her older sister, Sophia.</sentence><sentence id="682">This is a pre-war photograph, but no specific date is given.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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