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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: lillian none bielsky-bell |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0026 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0026_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504533 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1923-01-13 |
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birth_year: 1923.0 |
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place_of_birth: bialystok |
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country: poland |
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experience_group: survivor,partisan |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: none |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: lillian none bielsky-bell |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0026 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0026_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504533 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1923-01-13 |
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birth_year: 1923.0 |
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place_of_birth: bialystok |
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country: poland |
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experience_group: survivor,partisan |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
|
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
|
data_entry: cl |
|
accession: none |
|
revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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<title>Document</title> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1">Q: Wh-What is your full name?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3">A: My Jewish full name is Leah, Lee, they call me Lee.</sentence><sentence id="4"><span class="BUILDING">Lee Ticton Bielsky</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="7">Q: And when and where were you born?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, the 13 of January, 1923.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="11">Q: And could you tell us a little bit about your childhood?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="13">A: I was still age a year and a half, or two, I ri -- really don't remember that age, my parents lived in a little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> in between <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span> on the Dutchna called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Garadock</span>.</sentence><sentence id="14">My father had his business there, and he was a very good situated man there, he made a very nice living.</sentence><sentence id="15">And we kids went to <span class="BUILDING">Hebrew school</span>, and we had a life of luxury because my father wasn't a poor man, and he tried to give his kids, that's all what he had was me and my brother Meyer.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="19">Q: What kind of work did your father do?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="21">A: My father had like collecting all kind of shmutas and transferring this to <span class="BUILDING">factories</span> which it was made to paper.</sentence><sentence id="22">Was a educated man, good-hearted man, and a man that did not live for him - - for himself.</sentence><sentence id="23">I meet people today and they are telling me stories of my father that I never knew because I was too young to know him so well.</sentence><sentence id="24">When they were in need, when they couldn't return the money, if they borrowed, or what -- whoever had to get married, or whoever was poor and -- and they could not afford, my father was always with the wide smile and a -- and a open hand to help the people.</sentence><sentence id="25">And a lot of people were supported by him, by -- by [indecipherable] helping hand.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="31">Q: What <span class="REGION">areas</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">villages</span> did he work in?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="36">A: He didn't.</sentence><sentence id="37">He had big <span class="INT_SPACE">storage rooms</span> where people worked for him, they used to collect the shmutas from all around the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">villages</span>, and once a week bring it to him.</sentence><sentence id="38">This was a Friday, when they were paid, and they had for Shabbas.</sentence><sentence id="39">So a whole week from Monday til Friday, those people were always, you know, out of the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> from one <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> to the other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>.</sentence><sentence id="40">They used to -- how should I tell you -- they used to let my father trade things.</sentence><sentence id="41">They traded soap, they traded some <span class="INT_SPACE">kitchen</span> stuff, other stuff for the shmutas.</sentence><sentence id="42">The peasant needed this because he used to get a chit, he couldn't afford to buy this in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, and they got, instead, the -- the -- the merchandise that was what my father used to supply them, that they bought from my father, he didn't supply them.</sentence><sentence id="43">But there always were more on the books.</sentence><sentence id="44">Oh, oh, oh, and they paid.</sentence><sentence id="45">But once a week that they used to come and he used to make with them, you know, a settlement, how much you owe me, how much I owe you.</sentence><sentence id="46">And this was the day, Friday, when he settled with them always.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="58">Q: What was your <span class="BUILDING">home</span> life and the role of your mother?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="60">A: We were very, very -- that's all what we were is two kids.</sentence><sentence id="61">And they [indecipherable] over us, you know, the best clothes, the best toys.</sentence><sentence id="62">My father used to travel a lot so everything was bought from -- from the big <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">cities</span> like <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, like ma -- like <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, like <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span>.</sentence><sentence id="63">And all this -- the - - all the little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> used to come ra -- to me, because I had toys that nobody else had.</sentence><sentence id="64">But there was never a [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="65">My mother always used to say, come, come, doesn't matter that it's her toys, it -- right now it's yours, come and play with it.</sentence><sentence id="66">And you know, that they didn't know even that here are the people in the <span class="COUNTRY">States</span>, that you -- my mother used to refer to them, come in, you don't have to stay behind the <span class="DLF">window</span>, come in.</sentence><sentence id="67">The -- nothing will happen to the doll, we won't be mad at you, go in and play with the doll.</sentence><sentence id="68">And up to date, I never knew -- lam not a type to -- to talk and to share my experience, and to -- to say who I was.</sentence><sentence id="69">Take me what I am</sentence><sentence id="71">now.</sentence><sentence id="72">And I -- but there are people that tell my friends, oh my God, she never told you that?</sentence><sentence id="73">She never said nothing?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="90">Q: Then what happened as you got a little older?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="92">A: As I got older, my bigger brother, he was six years older, Henry Meyer, our whole family was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span> and around <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span> in the little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">towns</span>.</sentence><sentence id="93">My grandfather, my grandmother, my aunts, my uncles.</sentence><sentence id="94">And he went there to <span class="BUILDING">high school</span>, of course it was a <span class="BUILDING">Hebrew high school</span>, my father was a Zionist.</sentence><sentence id="95">He liked very much <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, and he liked his kids should know a perfect Hebrew.</sentence><sentence id="96">So he went to -- I went to a <span class="BUILDING">public school</span>, a <span class="BUILDING">Hebrew school</span>, which my teacher is still in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> now.</sentence><sentence id="97">And -- and he went, finished it eight cla -- eight grades, and he went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>.</sentence><sentence id="98">My parents hand him to -- to the family, to stay with them.</sentence><sentence id="99">And I was still finishing up <span class="BUILDING">public school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="100">The last year of his graduation from <span class="BUILDING">high school</span>, I entered <span class="BUILDING">high school</span>, to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, they send me.</sentence><sentence id="101">He finished and they send me.</sentence><sentence id="102">In the first half a year, when I came <span class="BUILDING">home</span> for Hanukkah, for vacation -- and I will say we had the first phone in the whole little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="103">Had a phone in the -- my father's business, and we had a phone <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="104">And -- I'm sorry, the druggist had a phone.</sentence><sentence id="105">And as I was sitting and doing my homework, I heard a call.</sentence><sentence id="106">I knew that you cannot get too many calls there.</sentence><sentence id="107">And they said, comes -- hurry, come with the doctor, your mother passed -- fainted.</sentence><sentence id="108">And my father was playing checkers my neighbor next door.</sentence><sentence id="109">So I call him.</sentence><sentence id="110">I still remember how I climbed the -- climbed the <span class="DLF">stairs</span>.</sentence><sentence id="111">I got such a weakness in my -- being so young, in my knees, because the doctor was some very high steps.</sentence><sentence id="112">You had to climb the <span class="DLF">steps</span> and I just couldn't get on the <span class="DLF">steps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="113">So on four I climbed the <span class="DLF">step</span> screaming, my mother -- I didn't say my mother fainted, I said, "My mother's dying, my mother's dying."</sentence><sentence id="114">It was too late.</sentence><sentence id="115">He came there, you know, it wasn't a long distance to -- to drive or to walk, is -- was -- it's -- everything was very close.</sentence><sentence id="116">But my mother fell off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">chair</span> and that was it.</sentence><sentence id="117">Never saw.</sentence><sentence id="118">In fact, when we brought her</sentence><sentence id="120"><span class="BUILDING">home</span>, she was so warm because she was fresh dressed.</sentence><sentence id="121">And my mother was a very elegant woman.</sentence><sentence id="122">With the lipstick on her lips, I never -- I didn't let her to put -- I -- I did not let to put her in the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> because I didn't believe that she is dead.</sentence><sentence id="123">And from there on my trouble started.</sentence><sentence id="124">My brother returned to finish his schooling, to get his m -- his -- what do you get, diploma?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="160">Q: Degree.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="162">A: His degree, and -- and I had to remain <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="163">And that summer -- and my father, on top of everything got very sick.</sentence><sentence id="164">He didn't take any food, he was a heavy smoker.</sentence><sentence id="165">He was transferred to [indecipherable] to a <span class="NPIP">place</span> where they tried to feed him very often, and you know, things that had -- had a lot of calories like a lot of butter and just to -- his intestines were terrible, terrible.</sentence><sentence id="166">He was there seven months.</sentence><sentence id="167">So, in other words, besides the girl that worked for us and -- for so many years, I had no mother, I had no father.</sentence><sentence id="168">But my mother's brother stayed with us to watch me.</sentence><sentence id="169">And he took care of some of the business and then my father's brother used to come to take care on the business.</sentence><sentence id="170">And this -- there was no life already, this -- everything was, you know, went to pieces.</sentence><sentence id="171">And my har -- my father was there seven months until he returned <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="172">And at the meantime, I went already to my aunt -- aunt's -- to his sister, to my father's sisters, to Bialystok, because I entered <span class="BUILDING">school</span> bo -- baca -- my brother finished and I entered.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="184">Q: So you were going to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> during this time?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="186">A: Right, and my bro --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="187">Q: And what else did you do -- what else did you do during that time?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="188">A: Nothing much, I had -- my family was very big in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, I had a lot of young cousins.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="189">You know, everybody -- when you get to be already beaten but [indecipherable] with no mother, with no father, father was sick, we didn't know what the -- tomorrow will bring.</sentence><sentence id="190">Ye --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="191">Q: You were how -- you were how old at this time?</sentence></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="195">A: 13.</sentence><sentence id="196">13.</sentence><sentence id="197">My mother died exact on my birth -- my 13" birthday.</sentence><sentence id="198">So I stayed a whole year there with my aunts.</sentence><sentence id="199">I was very thin, I was sick.</sentence><sentence id="200">I couldn't take any food, I was vomiting.</sentence><sentence id="201">My aunts had full hands with me.</sentence><sentence id="202">For the summertime, my brother came to take me, they didn't trust me to come <span class="BUILDING">home</span> myself.</sentence><sentence id="203">So he took a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sleeping train</span>, I should be -- and I vomit a lot when I was traveling, so he was afraid to let me travel just like that.</sentence><sentence id="204">So he took me in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sleeping train</span>, and we came <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="205">Before we had to -- we didn't have a <span class="BUILDING">station</span>.</sentence><sentence id="206">Like here, you come, you take a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cab</span>, you go to -- from the <span class="BUILDING">airport</span>, straight.</sentence><sentence id="207">We had to travel from my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="208">We had a man that used to pick us up by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> and horse.</sentence><sentence id="209">So he was waiting [indecipherable] about 30 kilometers - - 50 kilometers from -- from -- from my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="210">And he used to bring us <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="211">He knew -- he worked for us f -- for my father for so many years.</sentence><sentence id="212">And this was star -- we are supposed to meet the man to take us <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, my brother said, you know, "We'll make a stop here in --in this little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> Moladetchna."</sentence><sentence id="213">Said, "What for?" "</sentence><sentence id="214">Oh, I want to introduce you to somebody."</sentence><sentence id="215">He was afraid to tell me because I wouldn't go <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="216">He knew that I cannot have a su-substitute for my mother, he knew my attitude.</sentence><sentence id="217">So he was afraid that I won't come <span class="BUILDING">home</span> for the summer.</sentence><sentence id="218">But so close to <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, where will I go, I cannot go back already.</sentence><sentence id="219">So he decided that he'll tell me.</sentence><sentence id="220">My father, returning from his <span class="BUILDING">convalescent home</span>, wherever he was, at the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> he met a woman from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span> which was a divorcee with a child -- with a son three years older than I. And my father was a ga -- a very good looking man, very handsome and with a lot of money, so what's bad about?</sentence><sentence id="221">She was a very smart cookie.</sentence><sentence id="222">She knew how to take him in, and [indecipherable] and -- and my brother knew about it, and to me they didn't say until I will meet her.</sentence><sentence id="223">Sure, in the first time she was very nice, tried to impress me.</sentence><sentence id="224">But I do -- didn't stay there more, I just couldn't picture somebody taking my mom's <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="225">And we stayed there a day or two and we went <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="226">And then slowly, slowly, she start to come visiting and I knew that it's something more than a</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="230">plain visit.</sentence><sentence id="231">You know, I wasn't really baby baby.</sentence><sentence id="232">And I saw my father's attitude, he was in ba -- he was in bad shape, he didn't -- he wanted to do so much for his kids.</sentence><sentence id="233">And in the same token, I guess he fell in love.</sentence><sentence id="234">Which I could swear, and anybody else that knew him, that this could never happen after -- because s-such a life that he had with my mother, you don't see, you don't hear.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="235">And that was -- and that was it.</sentence><sentence id="236">Then slowly, slowly, now this was deg39 already, close to the 40's, the Russian come in.</sentence><sentence id="237">My father was already the -- they wanted him, they were watching him, he couldn't do this, he couldn't do this.</sentence><sentence id="238">Everything is capitalism, everything is richness, and -- and he -- he cannot have any [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="239">E-Every day they found something else to a -- to blame him.</sentence><sentence id="240">And he's on --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="241">Q: And you were a child, were -- were you aware of the --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="242">A: Yeah, because I was -- I wasn't really a stupid child, I was -- I knew.</sentence><sentence id="243">And I went through right, a lo -- a lot, I went through a lot.</sentence><sentence id="244">And my mother was a extremely intelligent woman, so was my father.</sentence><sentence id="245">He put in too much effort in their kids.</sentence><sentence id="246">I don't know if shows today, but at that time it showed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="252">Q: Were you still going to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> then?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="254">A: Ah, sure -- no, that time it was a mishmash.</sentence><sentence id="255">There was no schooling, there were -- the <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> went out, the Russian, it didn't come in.</sentence><sentence id="256">There was a mishmash.</sentence><sentence id="257">As soon the Russian came and settled their government, I went back to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="258">And my father said he is not going to <span class="REGION">Siberia</span> no matter what.</sentence><sentence id="259">If it won't be today, it's going to be tomorrow, but they are looking after him.</sentence><sentence id="260">And one night he picked up himself and he went, he said, you stay <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, to my stepmother and her son, and I'll go.</sentence><sentence id="261">In meantime she brought already -- she had in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span> a s -- two sisters and a mother, and she brought them in, you know, to our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, to be closer to her.</sentence><sentence id="262">Why not support the</sentence><sentence id="264">whole family, only her?</sentence><sentence id="265">So they got to go our little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, and they got my -- my father got for them an <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, not a big and luxurious <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, but manageable.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="279">Q: And the name of your <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="281">A: This was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Grudeck</span> up -- but this wasn't in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Grudeck</span>, I -- I meant to say that this was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>, after we moved to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>.</sentence><sentence id="282">And my father picked up himself and he went to look, if it wouldn't be <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> it would be a different <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="283">But he had a few people that he knew in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>, so he decided he'll go first there.</sentence><sentence id="284">Sure enough, he got, you know, in good times we would never pass that <span class="DLF">street</span>.</sentence><sentence id="285">But he didn't want to be showing, he didn't want to be -- people should, you know, recognize him.</sentence><sentence id="286">He wanted to sit quiet, and have his meals and see what will -- will happen.</sentence><sentence id="287">And we left everything, and we moved to this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> with -- comparing our -- our conditions that we lived, with the help, and with the luxury and with -- with the -- with all kind of -- of what do you call this on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span>, the rugs, the Persian rugs, and all that going and it's such a mess, it's -- it was like th -- going in a <span class="BUILDING">stable</span>.</sentence><sentence id="288">But we had no choice because my father wanted to hide.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="297">Q: How did you get from one <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> to the other?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="299">A: A <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="300"><span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Wagon</span> [indecipherable] <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>.</sentence><sentence id="301">He hired somebody to transport us.[indecipherable] too many around we need to get our private belongings, we needed our clothes.</sentence><sentence id="302">We're storing about <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">furniture</span> here and there, you know.</sentence><sentence id="303">But [indecipherable] we left everything, not -- and we didn't take nothing.</sentence><sentence id="304">Our life went to pieces.</sentence><sentence id="305">It was nothing -- nothing left.</sentence><sentence id="306">But you know, when you are young, you don't think, it won't be today, it will be tomorrow and -- and -- and what's doing about Germans?</sentence><sentence id="307">Who was telling me again about the war.</sentence><sentence id="308">I went back to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="309">My older brother didn't -- couldn't stay <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, he didn't like the way my stepmother handled me.</sentence><sentence id="310">He didn't like -- every day she found something that I'm not doing right.</sentence><sentence id="311">That I'm not -- I don't have the right friends -- I grew up with these friends.</sentence><sentence id="312">I went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> with them.</sentence><sentence id="315">They -- it -- vera -- you know where you come, you are two years old, and you grow u -- and you are f -- the -- 14 - 15, how can you desert them?</sentence><sentence id="316">And that's one <span class="BUILDING">house</span> next to the other, and that's not that you have to take <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">the car</span> and drive.</sentence><sentence id="317">So when you look through the <span class="DLF">window</span> you always saw somebody walking by, passing by, knocking in your <span class="DLF">door</span>, knocking in your <span class="DLF">window</span>.</sentence><sentence id="318">So she didn't like this, she didn't like that.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="341">Q: So you're [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="342">A: And -- and I got to be a slave, you know, already, do this, do that.</sentence><sentence id="343">I never -- I never washed a -- a sock in my life.</sentence><sentence id="344">I didn't know I was -- I was so k -- they cared about so much I had to really - - was very, very spoiled.</sentence><sentence id="345">Very spoiled.</sentence><sentence id="346">Me and so my brother.</sentence><sentence id="347">When I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, Daddy used to come and open up accounts for me.</sentence><sentence id="348">Here, you should buy the fruit, here you should buy the chocolate, here sh -- you should buy the ice cream.</sentence><sentence id="349">So what did I do?</sentence><sentence id="350">Yeah, sure I did.</sentence><sentence id="351">But I didn't eat, I brought the whole class to the -- to the <span class="BUILDING">stores</span>, and then when [indecipherable] used to come, take care of all that.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="352">Q: Then what happened when things started to change in --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="353">A: Then she brought the whole family to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> to -- my stepmother brought her mother, she still had a mother, and two sisters.</sentence><sentence id="354">And my father took for them a small <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>.</sentence><sentence id="355">I wouldn't swear, I don't know, but I think he paid the rent, too, because they were all three women.</sentence><sentence id="356">And what did they do?</sentence><sentence id="357">They used to do some kind of alteration, 0 -- the two girls -- they weren't girls, they were people already in the 30's.</sentence><sentence id="358">One was younger, one was older, and th-they used to fix clothing, or sew something.</sentence><sentence id="359">They made here and -- here and there something, but not to support themself.</sentence><sentence id="360">And my husband, should rest in peace, got to know one of the -- of my stepmother's sisters.</sentence><sentence id="361">I don't know where they ment -- wh-where they met.</sentence><sentence id="362">I think he went to some kind of a convention and she was there, too, I don't know, and they met.</sentence><sentence id="363">My husband lived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> when</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="377">he left <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Soubotnik</span>, in my girlfriend's <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="378">So when I used to come to my girlfriend, I knew my husband.</sentence><sentence id="379">I knew that they have a <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="386">Q: And your husband's name?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="388">A: And my husband's name was Tuvya Bielsky.</sentence><sentence id="389">And as soon she found out, she called my step- aunt, that I know Tuvya, I got to be her messenger, bringing him notes, he used to send to me notes, but mostly she send me there.</sentence><sentence id="390">Where is he, if I saw him, if I went to see my girlfriend, if I met him.</sentence><sentence id="391">We used to take a big <span class="DLF">ladder</span> to go and see, he was so handsome, he was so -- he was so good, he always t-took us to the movies, me and my girlfriend and maybe we want to do something, you know, when he had the time.</sentence><sentence id="392">So in order to see if we could something get from him, we used to take a big <span class="DLF">ladder</span>, climb up and see if he's in the <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, or he's sleeping, or he's eating, whatever.</sentence><sentence id="393">And that's how I knew the news, I could bring her the news.</sentence><sentence id="394">So --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="395">Q: And then, as conditions started to change, what happened?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="396">A: And then the conditions started to change when the Germans started to -- to a-approach us and the war started.</sentence><sentence id="397">That time --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="398">Q: Wh-When was that, that time?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="399">A: This was on the end of f -- four -- in deg41 -- in the end of "40 or in the beginning of "41.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="401">Q: Wintertime?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="403">A: Wintertime.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="405">Q: 40-41.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="407">A: And we still lived in the same <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, and in the beginning it was again the Russians started to leave and the Germans started to come in, and there was no government, there was no <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, everything was burning, everything was in fire.</sentence><sentence id="408">We had to leave for a few days the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> with my father and stepmother and my brother to some, you know, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>, to survive, because we</sentence><sentence id="410">0 didn't know how li -- badly that will burn, if it will reach us.</sentence><sentence id="411">Not that we have so much to lose already, but my father had his money.</sentence><sentence id="412">And -- and then I -- I'm trying to remember what happened.</sentence><sentence id="413">And then my husband was -- he's still in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>, he saw the whole commotion.</sentence><sentence id="414">They got very close, they -- both my step-aunt and him got so like they would live together already.</sentence><sentence id="415">So he took her, he took <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycles</span> for her and for him, and he ran -- as soon they saw that Lida is burning, they decided they" ll go to -- his father had a mail [indecipherable] <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> [indecipherable] and he decided that sa -- there it will be the safetiest place for him.</sentence><sentence id="416">And that's how w -- what he did.</sentence><sentence id="417">Cause the first bomb that fell, fell where -- where he was the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="418">It killed my girlfriend and killed her father.</sentence><sentence id="419">And it was nothing, it was like wiped out.</sentence><sentence id="420">So then he grabbed her and he went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>.</sentence><sentence id="421">His father [indecipherable] where he had a <span class="BUILDING">mill</span>, and there was other twe -- he's one of 12 kids; 10 si -- 10 brothers and two sisters.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="439">Q: And you went back to your <span class="BUILDING">house</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="441">A: And I went back to my <span class="BUILDING">house</span> because my father was young.</sentence><sentence id="442">When my father died, he was only 49 years old.</sentence><sentence id="443">So my father had the very strong mi -- he was very strong minded, and he didn't want to be exception.</sentence><sentence id="444">He said what will happen to everybody -- I don't know if it was wise, or not wise, but he did not feel like to be exception, like he could do it and nobody else can do it because he had a way of escaping.</sentence><sentence id="445">So after we stayed by the -- in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>, you know, we escaped for a few days and the major burning of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> stopped, we returned to our <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="446">Sure, people took away things, sto -- the sto -- things were stolen, a -- a lot of mas -- mishmash.</sentence><sentence id="447">And this happened until -- yeah, I worked at the Germans, and right near me where lived, very -- you know, I am telling you, in good times we wouldn't even pass the <span class="DLF">street</span>, not only live there.</sentence><sentence id="448">But there was big -- a <span class="BUILDING">building</span>, a empty, big <span class="BUILDING">building</span>, and as the Germans walked into this -- to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, they occupied it and they made like a <span class="BUILDING">headquarters</span> there and they hired young girls to work</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="452">1 for them, like to peel potatoes, like to clean, like to fix their socks if they are torn, to wash something small for them.</sentence><sentence id="453">They were very nice to us.</sentence><sentence id="454">Wi --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="455">Q: What -- what did you do, specifically?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="456">A: I peel potatoes, that was my -- my job.</sentence><sentence id="457">And at night, we used to gather in a friend's <span class="DLF">porch</span>.</sentence><sentence id="458">The [indecipherable] came too, you know, they always say -- came, and they sang song with us, and they were telling us story.</sentence><sentence id="459">And never came on that [indecipherable] even, that we are Jews, or they are -- they used to give us bread, sometimes butter, you know, it -- a payoff.</sentence><sentence id="460">They didn't pay us in money, you know, like a job, but this way -- but they never said, oh because you are a Jew, you have to work.</sentence><sentence id="461">That was it, some there, they felt very close to my girlfriend, some of them had the romances at that time.</sentence><sentence id="462">But it was a very short while until it got to our minds that that's not the reality.</sentence><sentence id="463">The [indecipherable] didn't come for it, they came to -- to -- to do something else with us.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="472">Q: And then when did things start to change?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="474">A: And then the things start to change when -- they didn't put us in a closed <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, but they assigned -- they divided the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> in five <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">boroughs</span>, where the Jews -- where the Jews ha -- can -- they st -- gave us the star already, the yellow star, and they assigned us to five <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">boroughs</span>, and according wa -- who -- where it lived, you belonged to the special <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">borough</span>.</sentence><sentence id="475">Let's say if I lived on <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Zaracha</span>, I belonged to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Koshorova</span>.</sentence><sentence id="476">There was all the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>, the big <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>, the -- how shall I tell you [indecipherable]?</sentence><sentence id="477">That's where you stay mil -- mi -- the armies is stationed, what do you ca -- <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="482">Q: Mm-hm.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="484">A: Tremendous <span class="BUILDING">military barracks</span> --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="485">Q: Bases.</sentence></p><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="490">A: -- there was the Russi -- bases.</sentence><sentence id="491">There were Russian, there were Polish, and now the -- the German took this over.</sentence><sentence id="492">And just where they transferred us was across the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> -- the bases, the <span class="BUILDING">military bases</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="496">Q: So you had to move?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="498">A: Absolutely.</sentence><sentence id="499">And you know how many people in one <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>?</sentence><sentence id="500">Ah three, four families in one <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="501">So they moved us with a whole family, but who -- we rented the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, they were [indecipherable] five people, six people.</sentence><sentence id="502">Me and my -- we were four people and my stepmother's mother and sister, one, because the other one went with my husband.</sentence><sentence id="503">As of there -- my husband didn't like my stepmother's attitude, but she was a very clever woman, my stepmother.</sentence><sentence id="504">I give credit where credit is due, she was intelligent, and -- but by nature she was bad.</sentence><sentence id="505">You know, she had the terrible nature.</sentence><sentence id="506">And he could not -- he suffered a lot with me when he used to come to visit us and see her attitude, it bothered him.</sentence><sentence id="507">You could see on his face that it hurts him.</sentence><sentence id="508">And then he used maybe to tell his girlfriend, and she used to tell her sister, and it was even worst, because she used to tell her, stop that, you know, it's -- it's very -- people see, people pay attention to it, stop that, change a little bit your attitude.</sentence><sentence id="509">So she -- instead to get better, she always used to get worse after.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="522">Q: What were the living conditions like?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="524">A: Terrible.</sentence><sentence id="525">So many people in two <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span>, and my stepbrother was very good friends with me and I think this was the main reason that she was afraid maybe someday he will marry me.</sentence><sentence id="526">He was about to finish engineering and he was hired by the Germans as -- in the electra -- in -- in the field of electricity, I don't know exactly what he did there.</sentence><sentence id="527">But in those <span class="BUILDING">bases</span>, in <span class="BUILDING">military bases</span>, he worked for them.</sentence><sentence id="528">And in the -- whoever worked for the <span class="BUILDING">military bases</span> had a special shein.</sentence><sentence id="529">Shein is a permit that he works for the army and there's a lot of thing they were allowed to do,</sentence><sentence id="531">3 like get more bread maybe, or get some other stuff.</sentence><sentence id="532">And I was a messenger for the Judenrat in my -- in my <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="544">Q: This is still 1941?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="546">A: Right.</sentence><sentence id="547">Until in 1942, May eight, my husband's birthday, he closed up -- yeah, meantime I must -- I marked that -- not once my husband came, he was already there, he met already with his brothers, they had already conversations there, in -- at <span class="BUILDING">father's home</span> and there was already relatives from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek</span> that escaped from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> because of the mess, but -- when they came to them -- but them -- and they had the meal and they had the chickens and they had the milk, and they had the -- all, you know, a supply -- mostly supply of food.</sentence><sentence id="548">So they were more safe than in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="549">So a lot of relatives came to visit them and it was impossible already to live in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, too.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="554">Q: What kind of messages did you take, or who did you take them to?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="556">A: Let's say -- I don't know how to explain.</sentence><sentence id="557">Judenr -- a Judenrat was like a --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="558">Q: A <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">council</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="559">A: -- a council of the <span class="REGION">section</span> where you lived.</sentence><sentence id="560">The Germans gave their messages to the juden -- to the major Judenrat and they used to divide them between the -- each <span class="REGION">section</span>.</sentence><sentence id="561">In my <span class="INT_SPACE">section</span> I was a messenger in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Judenrat</span>.</sentence><sentence id="562">So whatever they told me, go tell this one and this one that he is called to the Judenrat.</sentence><sentence id="563">There was no <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">phones</span>.</sentence><sentence id="564">Well, this one, this one, tell him that he has to be at this time there and there.</sentence><sentence id="565">Tell the policeman has to come and take him, you know?</sentence><sentence id="566">That -- that was the only way that we could communicate.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="575">Q: And this continued until?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="577">A: Then in -- yeah, my husband [indecipherable] few times to the si -- to the -- to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>.</sentence><sentence id="578">Already 19"" of June he had the Russian passport -- passport, and not passport but papers.</sentence><sentence id="579">He grew -- he</sentence><sentence id="581">4 looked exactly like my son looking now, with the big moustache.</sentence><sentence id="582">His name was Belowsky and he had a friend, but you know, it was very, very dangerous because he knew a lot of people already and he was afraid that somebody will recognize him.</sentence><sentence id="583">And he tried to get through to us, and my father's accept to come to their <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> to enter the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">forest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="584">And my father said nothing doing.</sentence><sentence id="585">It will be with everybody it will be with me.</sentence><sentence id="586">He made the effort maybe two or three times.</sentence><sentence id="587">He didn't help him, until the real section came up, and it was too late.</sentence><sentence id="588">On the shein, on the permit for my stepbrother that worked in the -- in the <span class="BUILDING">military barracks</span> -- <span class="BUILDING">military bases</span>, we could survive.</sentence><sentence id="589">In other words, the whole action was on our <span class="DLF">street</span>.</sentence><sentence id="590">And they went from <span class="DLF">door</span> to <span class="DLF">door</span>, P'Il never forget, May eight, it's unbelievable, it was snowing.</sentence><sentence id="591">And I went out, my father told me to get dressed, but I didn't have a chance because I thought maybe they" II leave out our <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, maybe they won't come in to us.</sentence><sentence id="592">You didn't know what's going on, but they went <span class="BUILDING">house</span> by <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and -- and that morning my father got up and he says, "I had a dream."</sentence><sentence id="593">Said, what kind of a -- he says, "This situations is no good."</sentence><sentence id="594">I said, "Daddy, why didn't you go, you had a such [indecipherable]?" "</sentence><sentence id="595">I told you, he has his family there too, his relatives from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek</span>.</sentence><sentence id="596">Who will sleep in your <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, who can sleep?</sentence><sentence id="597">We're not animals."</sentence><sentence id="598">I said what's -- I'll answer you what you answered, what will be with everybody it will be with you.</sentence><sentence id="599">There is people too.</sentence><sentence id="600">Nothing to eat.</sentence><sentence id="601">Nothing doing, I'm not escaping, I'm not hiding my head.</sentence><sentence id="602">Fine.</sentence><sentence id="603">I was -- I was under his command.</sentence><sentence id="604">We were re -- we respected our parents very highly.</sentence><sentence id="605">So before he -- so he said he had a dream that I'1] remain, but I'Il be leaving the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, the -- that I'll -- P'll go through the section with not being hurt, they won't kill me.</sentence><sentence id="606">He doesn't know what will happen to him, but he knows that I'll remain.</sentence><sentence id="607">Then, leave the stories already for later, not for now.</sentence><sentence id="608">There's no time.</sentence><sentence id="609">And sure enough, on this w -- the Germans went in barefoot, in the snow in my nightgown they took me to the -- to this section.</sentence><sentence id="610">And it went -- my stepmother's mother and her sister, one</sentence><sentence id="612">5 of her sisters, Fanny, and the guy sh -- did -- the German was standing and we didn't know left is to le -- to leave or right is to leave, but right by the older woman that was there, mother was already older.</sentence><sentence id="613">So he put his hand, you know, like cut.</sentence><sentence id="614">We four went to the left, they went to the right.</sentence><sentence id="615">Later on we found out that we remained and they went -- and they were killed.</sentence><sentence id="616">And this was pretty long, nobody knew when and what and how.</sentence><sentence id="617">This was pretty long until they send us the [indecipherable] <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, because they took out plenty of people there, and you could go -- they didn't assigned you, you have to go to this <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, to this <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="618">Whatever you grabbed, which <span class="BUILDING">house</span> you grabbed when they brought you on their -- on their security, on German security to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, you knew already that you are lost, that you cannot go out from here, that the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> is already a closed one, that you have a curfew.</sentence><sentence id="619">And we went out to a <span class="BUILDING">house</span> -- into a <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="667">Q: What happened to your father?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="669">A: Father was with me.</sentence><sentence id="670">My father and me.</sentence><sentence id="671">My father died in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="672">He was killed in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="677">Q: So you went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="679">A: And next day we had to go already to -- it was organized about the work.</sentence><sentence id="680">What shall I tell you, there was five, six families in that -- in a <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="681">You practically slept to -- one on top of the other, such a narrow -- whatever you -- it was in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> cause those people, they took out from the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span>.</sentence><sentence id="682">How many of them were dead, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="683">I know that day it was killed five and a half thousand people in that -- in that day.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="689">Q: What was your daily life like in the -- in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="691">A: From the morning [indecipherable] we were -- had to get up in the morning and somebody was waiting <span class="NPIP">outside</span> for us in a certain -- in the beginning when Lida was ruined and the Germans</sentence><sentence id="693">6 came, we were cleaning the -- the bricks, you know, that -- the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> that was ruined, to clean up the bricks and make the property, clean up the properties.</sentence><sentence id="694">It was not easy work.</sentence><sentence id="695">Sunday morning the Germans were playing with the -- with us a game, let the big dogs -- I worked just across the -- their -- their <span class="BUILDING">residence</span>.</sentence><sentence id="696">They used to let the dogs down, make a game with us, and the dog used to tear you in pieces.</sentence><sentence id="697">And there were like wooden, you know, like <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trays</span> that you put the bricks, and they told you not to [indecipherable] bricks, to slap -- they told you to put -- that you should really get a backache, or break your neck or break your head.</sentence><sentence id="698">So this -- two of you cou -- could only sneak in when they didn't look at you.</sentence><sentence id="699">That was my first job.</sentence><sentence id="700">And the worst thing was Sundays, when they used to eat their fat and nice breakfast, and then go for a walk, but their -- their dogs ate better than we ate [indecipherable] the whole time that they were there.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="713">Q: Where did you get food from?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="715">A: We used -- we -- we used to go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>, you know, it's [indecipherable] when you -- we knew some -- you gave away everything from yourself, the money and everything, th -- and the peasants that knew you used to sneak in, that you bought from them all of your life, eggs, or milk or this or that.</sentence><sentence id="716">They used to pity you in the beginning and they give you and then they made good business too.</sentence><sentence id="717">If you had money they sold to you, but not always you could buy.</sentence><sentence id="718">Ifa German used to catch you and he was in a bad mood, you didn't want to.</sentence><sentence id="719">So he was a --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="720">Q: But you could not get -- you could not get <span class="NPIP">outside</span> the [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="721">A: No, I'm talking about even before the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> got closed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="723">Q: Yeah, oh.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="725">A: In the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> there was certain things that you could bring in, not too much, and listen, Jews are always very smart people, they always knew how to get along.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="727">Q: Were there many young children your age there with --</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="733">A: Yeah, I have a lot of friend with -- we survived together, yeah, in that time after wa -- after the -- I mean, the action.</sentence><sentence id="734">Sure I lost quite a few friends, this -- this was -- and then in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> my husband came one time.</sentence><sentence id="735">Said to my father, "You see, I told you what will happen.</sentence><sentence id="736">I warned you, I begged you.</sentence><sentence id="737">You didn't have to go through that.</sentence><sentence id="738">The <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> are full of <span class="ENV_FEATURES">trees</span> and the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">trees</span> are covering us.</sentence><sentence id="739">Here, no matter how you walk out, they"!</sentence><sentence id="740">see you."</sentence><sentence id="741">And I was upset about it because the reason that I worked in <span class="DLF">gardens</span> of one of the <span class="BUILDING">Polacks</span> -- lot of people, you know, were used -- they -- they used to plant and we had to clean it and watch it and water it and there was big <span class="DLF">fields</span> of -- of -- of <span class="DLF">gardens</span>.</sentence><sentence id="742">In the fee -- and it was so hot in the summer, and the German was standing over you and you couldn't -- you know, you really couldn't not work, or play that you are sick, or you don't feel good.</sentence><sentence id="743">What -- what more you complain, the s -- more you got over your head.</sentence><sentence id="744">Somehow my stepmother was very good fren -- friends with the owner of this -- of this <span class="DLF">gardens</span> that he was in charge of them.</sentence><sentence id="745">I don't know if it was his or if he was only in charge with the -- th-the Germans made him in charge of it.</sentence><sentence id="746">But he lived there, and as soon you know, they produced to make [indecipherable] tomorrow was a -- a section.</sentence><sentence id="747">To- Tomorrow it will be something happen.</sentence><sentence id="748">I pass by I heard somebody say tomorrow something will happen this guy, this guy.</sentence><sentence id="749">And that's how in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> started to where the talking and what to -- what we will do, where will we hide, and what -- how and what.</sentence><sentence id="750">At night still were young, we used to -- too long we couldn't go, and too far we couldn't go, but next <span class="DLF">door</span> we used to [indecipherable] and come to one <span class="DLF">backyard</span> all together and sing fa -- Hebrew songs and -- and tell stories and what will happen, how come that we'll have a terrible youth.</sentence><sentence id="751">And you know, and go <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, next day you had to go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>.</sentence><sentence id="752">So I remember one fact, that right after this action in ma -- in May eight, and they told us that the next day we have to go to work and we should all get together in this and this point.</sentence><sentence id="753">I had a watch.</sentence><sentence id="754">I wanted to check the time I shouldn't be too</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="758">8 late because I was afraid.</sentence><sentence id="759">You had so much fear in yourself, you weren't -- when he didn't mean to do nothing to you but to look.</sentence><sentence id="760">Not so much I -- even from the Germans, like from the Polacks that the pol -- the police that helped them out.</sentence><sentence id="761">And I -- I ask somebody what time is this, and a Polish guy came over to me and he said the time, and I said thank you, and we went into the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="762">Didn't take an hour, he comes in with a German.</sentence><sentence id="763">He says, "Where is the girl that asked me what time it is?"</sentence><sentence id="764">My father ra -- pushed me already away out to the <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, complete to another <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> where other people were.</sentence><sentence id="765">And he showed him, he said this one, this one.</sentence><sentence id="766">He said no.</sentence><sentence id="767">I want to see the girl that asked me the time.</sentence><sentence id="768">So my father got very nervous and he started already, he said, "Kill me.</sentence><sentence id="769">What do you want to do to her?</sentence><sentence id="770">Kill her?</sentence><sentence id="771">Kill me, I'm old man."</sentence><sentence id="772">Four -- he was maybe 46 years there.</sentence><sentence id="773">Kill me.</sentence><sentence id="774">Said, "No, I'll tell you what, I won't do nothing to you.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="775">Pll -- Pll murder you, but after you give me your -- your dau -- what connection do you have?"</sentence><sentence id="776">He didn't want to tell him that I'm his daughter.</sentence><sentence id="777">Anyway, I saw it's -- it's very crucial, I came out.</sentence><sentence id="778">I came out and he said -- "I didn't do nothing," I said, "I just ask you what time because I wanted to be on time tomorrow morning."</sentence><sentence id="779">It was just a stupid game that he wanted to scare the whole <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and he want to make a -- a game of it.</sentence><sentence id="780">Turned around, took away my watch and went out.</sentence><sentence id="781">What di -- what did I do?</sentence><sentence id="782">But just stupid game.</sentence><sentence id="783">You know, anything to show the authorities that they -- they-they are the big shots.</sentence><sentence id="784">And this wasn't the lesson for my father either, because that time I started to bother him [indecipherable] look, we went through, we could have waited.</sentence><sentence id="785">Tuvya asked us, he begged us, who else ha -- who else has in the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> such a privilege to go out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> one of the first ones because people would love it, but they didn't know how and what.</sentence><sentence id="786">What Daddy said, Daddy said.</sentence><sentence id="787">And after the action this was [indecipherable] Pll never forget.</sentence><sentence id="788">I came for my girlfriend, in fact, she was killed wi -- in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, from the white Polacks.</sentence><sentence id="789">Her sister and brother-in-law still in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, and the whole family</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="793">9 was saved by my husband.</sentence><sentence id="794">And we were sitting in their <span class="INT_SPACE">backyard</span>, singing, you know, songs from -- from -- from I don't know, maybe 60 - 70 years ago they used to sing that in -- in the Jewish tradition.</sentence><sentence id="795">And I came <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, and I said -- and I [indecipherable] crawl to my <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="796">It was very crowded to pass b-by to find your <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, you know, but was cold and chilly.</sentence><sentence id="797">So I took my girlfriend's jacket, I put the -- threw it on top of me.</sentence><sentence id="798">A blazer.</sentence><sentence id="799">Came <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and I lay down in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, took off the jacket, took off my clothes, lay down [indecipherable] ready to work.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="800">[indecipherable] I wasn't working all right. [</sentence><sentence id="801">indecipherable] had, you know, we had -- didn't have any peace in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, she always why didn't you do that.</sentence><sentence id="802">Why didn't you cook, why didn't you bring, why didn't you that?</sentence><sentence id="803">Til one day, I'm going -- I'Il bad -- back to this story with ma -- with the jacket, because that was the night that we left the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="804">But what I want to tell you from my stepmother and I said, in the beginning I didn't want to confess to. [</sentence><sentence id="805">indecipherable] I will tell it.</sentence><sentence id="806">Let it be on record, let people know that when you are making a <span class="DLF">hole</span> for somebody, you are the first one to fall.</sentence><sentence id="807">She said to me -- I come to work in the <span class="DLF">fields</span> and the one that I told you was in charge of me, says to me, "Today you'll work later."</sentence><sentence id="808">I said, "How can I work later, how can I get to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> later?</sentence><sentence id="809">After six o'clock, if I'Il be met by -- by the Germans and by the police, I'll be killed."</sentence><sentence id="810">We have no excuse, they kill you on the spot.</sentence><sentence id="811">That was a [indecipherable] and now order [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="812">Said, "I don't know what to tell you but I need you for work."</sentence><sentence id="813">What can I do?</sentence><sentence id="814">Helpless.</sentence><sentence id="815">My stepmother sometimes didn't come <span class="BUILDING">home</span> when she heard rumors that something's going to happen the ha -- <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, she used to hide herself there on the <span class="DLF">roof</span>.</sentence><sentence id="816">He used to hide her.</sentence><sentence id="817">Her and another few.</sentence><sentence id="818">Came six o'clock he says to me, ""Go <span class="BUILDING">home</span>."</sentence><sentence id="819">I said, "You told me to stay.</sentence><sentence id="820">I have nothing to lose already, cause after six I won't go nowhere."</sentence><sentence id="821">He said, "Go, go with the group, return to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in time."</sentence><sentence id="822">Passed a few weeks, and he starts telling me a story, that my stepmother paid with the money from five ruble gold, of my father's money to</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="826">0 keep me later in order he should send me <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and I should be killed by the Germans.</sentence><sentence id="827">So what for you needed the Germans that your own people could kill you.</sentence><sentence id="828">And I -- I kept it a secret for a long, long time.</sentence><sentence id="829">And he said to me, "You know, even not being Jewish, I had no conscious, because you were so innocent, I couldn't do it.</sentence><sentence id="830">I took the money from her, but was for money they were [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="831">But I told her I'1l do some other time, not today."</sentence><sentence id="832">And I kept it a secret for a long time, I didn't tell no one.</sentence><sentence id="833">First well I thought nobody will believe me.</sentence><sentence id="834">In this time of struggle for your life, of survival, you are able take my father's money and to kill me?</sentence><sentence id="835">I -</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="836">Q: [indecipherable] the story of the blazer, your friend --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="837">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="838">That night with -- I came <span class="BUILDING">home</span> with my friend's blazer.</sentence><sentence id="839">I don't recall actual night.</sentence><sentence id="840">And I went to sleep, and all of a sudden I hear somebody's touching me.</sentence><sentence id="841">I woke up, I thought my father maybe he's not feeling well.</sentence><sentence id="842">He says, "No, I'm fine."</sentence><sentence id="843">I decided to leave immediately, get dressed.</sentence><sentence id="844">If you -- my eyes [indecipherable] Daddy, takes time to get ready, Daddy, let me put on my shoes.</sentence><sentence id="845">I don't want to wait [indecipherable] can change my mind.</sentence><sentence id="846">Now, right now.</sentence><sentence id="847">And we were the first ones, me, my stepmother, my stepbrother and my father, to crawl out from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Glost ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="848">Where the police was, where -- where -- where the Germans was, were -- were standing and somehow, on our stomachs, under the -- what do you call this, the [indecipherable] this that the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghettos</span> were assi --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="849">Q: The <span class="DLF">walls</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="850">A: Not <span class="DLF">walls</span>, the metal, the metal, and th --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="851">Q: <span class="DLF">Barbed wire</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="852">A: The wiring.</sentence><sentence id="853">The electric wiring, because everything was -- was with electricity.</sentence><sentence id="854">And we passed under the <span class="DLF">wiring</span>.</sentence><sentence id="855">And th --</sentence></p><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="860">Q: Who was leading you?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="861">A: Nobody, but on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span> Tuvya Bielsky was waiting for us.</sentence><sentence id="862">And that's it.</sentence><sentence id="863">That's how we came to [indecipherable] to the -- to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">forest</span>.</sentence><sentence id="864">Then he met -- when he met us, he brought us to somebody that he knew for awhile, to rest up and a few hours later, these two brothers were waiting deeper in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> for us, and then I came, and there were 17 people of the family and with us it was 21.</sentence><sentence id="865">And that's how it start.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="871">Q: Was anybody else aware when you were leaving the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="873">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="874">Nobody knew.</sentence><sentence id="875">We disappeared with no sound, with no nothing.</sentence><sentence id="876">Was very dangerous.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="881">Q: What did you take with you?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="883">A: Absolutely nothing.</sentence><sentence id="884">Absolutely nothing, just to chan -- one change -- you couldn't -- how can you, you have to crawl, you have to run, you have to walk, you have to be in -- in -- you know, [indecipherable] for the rain.</sentence><sentence id="885">It's -- Europe is not -- Europe is not <span class="COUNTRY">America</span> or Florida.</sentence><sentence id="886">You know, you never know, there could be below zero, maybe 20 or 40 degree below zero.</sentence><sentence id="887">And that's how I survived til we left the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> in "44.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="893">Q: Ho-How did your husband know that you were leaving at that time?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="895">A: Oh, he -- he came to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> just -- in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Glost ghetto</span> he came one time, and then he send somebody -- to the same peasant where we stopped, you know, for a rest, when he was waiting for us behind the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, about two, three kilometers behind the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> he was waiting for us.</sentence><sentence id="896">And he took us to this peasant and this peasant came to my father to tell him.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="897">Because he used to come very often to bring us something, you know, like a piece of bread, or some milk, or some something.</sentence><sentence id="898">Some cheese.</sentence><sentence id="899">So he said Tuvya was here, he asked me to go and to tell you again and again.</sentence><sentence id="900">So I guess my father had some kind of a -- at wa -- sa -- was -- was talking to this man, but he didn't tell us, us he surprised.</sentence><sentence id="901">Maybe his wife knew, but us he</sentence></p><p></p><p><sentence id="905">2 surprised.</sentence><sentence id="906">Me and my stepbrother were very much surprised.</sentence><sentence id="907">Later this same night we had to go out.</sentence><sentence id="908">And that's how it started.</sentence><sentence id="909">We --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="910">Q: What -- what were you thoughts as a young -- as a young woman at that time, a young --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="911">A: What I thought?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="913">Q: -- what -- as you were escaping, do remember feeling?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="915">A: I was escaping, I -- I don't know, I had -- I had the picture of my old -- that whole night was the fi -- picture in front of me from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bench</span>, from where I put on my girlfriend's jacket.</sentence><sentence id="916">The whole young people there were sitting, and just like I left everything behind me.</sentence><sentence id="917">I wa -- I didn't have a feeling of sorry, but I -- I said to myself, why couldn't I share with them and tell them?First of all, I didn't know, because I didn't know until I didn't come <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="918">And I didn't go into <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, my father came to me, because he was afraid maybe next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, maybe I" te-tell somebody something.</sentence><sentence id="919">You know?</sentence><sentence id="920">But I had a picture, oh they remained there, they"!]</sentence><sentence id="921">have to go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span> tomorrow.</sentence><sentence id="922">They" ll have Sunday the same show with the dogs.</sentence><sentence id="923">They'll have this, they"!</sentence><sentence id="924">have that.</sentence><sentence id="925">I was too young to have special feelings.</sentence><sentence id="926">But I said oh, I'1l miss that sitting in the <span class="INT_SPACE">backyard</span> and not seeing my friends.</sentence><sentence id="927">I don't know where I'm going, I'm going to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">wolves</span>, I'm going to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">bears</span>, I'm going to the -- to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> without nothing.</sentence><sentence id="928">It's very har -- it was very hard to turn into a animal, being a human being.</sentence><sentence id="929">In that time we were animals, but we were -- we had freedom.</sentence><sentence id="930">We could move.</sentence><sentence id="931">Not in daytime, but at night time.</sentence><sentence id="932">And that's how the leadership of my husband went.</sentence><sentence id="933">My husband was [indecipherable] then we were constantly together.</sentence><sentence id="934">He was with his girlfriend and I was with my family, but this was counted as we lived in one <span class="INT_SPACE">bunker</span>, you know, we made one -- one place of -- of living together.</sentence><sentence id="935">And he saw that -- how much suffering I'm [indecipherable] how alone I am in this world.</sentence><sentence id="936">And he saw that my father wants to help me and he can, but he was -- he was threatened that she" Il leave him [indecipherable] do that.</sentence><sentence id="937">So he -</sentence><sentence id="939">3 - and so he tried, he tried to supply me boots, he tried to supply me warm clothes.</sentence><sentence id="940">He tried to always when he went out to bring something more for me.</sentence><sentence id="941">He told me always not to take so much to heart, things will change, everything will pass.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="971">Q: Where was the first <span class="NPIP">place</span> that you stayed after you got out?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="973">A: The first <span class="NPIP">place</span> was very close, I don't remember exactly, but it was very -- it wasn't organized.</sentence><sentence id="974">And that people were already -- the one, the family people that were there, they -- and the -- and the -- there were family people and there were neighbors next <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> from them, that they were relatives of m -- of my brother-in-law, that he got involved with one of their daughters, so he took out the parents, and he took out the sisters and the brothers.</sentence><sentence id="975">All together with us it was 21 people.</sentence><sentence id="976">But the other 17 people started already, especially the older people.</sentence><sentence id="977">What are you going to do, how will you feed them, at least we are 17 people, here four more mouths, four more this.</sentence><sentence id="978">But my husband always find a way.</sentence><sentence id="979">He always said to [indecipherable] "I'll find a way to -- to feed them, I'll find a way to supply them.</sentence><sentence id="980">Don't you worry about.</sentence><sentence id="981">It's more Jews, it's better."</sentence><sentence id="982">And slowly, slowly he started with his love and he wants to save Jews from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="983">He doesn't care how, he doesn't care what people will say, he doesn't care if they" ll be satisfied with it.</sentence><sentence id="984">He must save Jews from -- and he was asked the question, what would you rather do?</sentence><sentence id="985">Kill 10 Germans or save one Jew?</sentence><sentence id="986">And very openly and with a lot of dignity he said, "Save one Jew."</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="987">Q: Well -- well I -- yeah, we're going to have to change the tape on that wonderful quote.</sentence><sentence id="988">We're going to change tapes.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="989">A: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="992">4 Beginning Tape Two</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="997">Q: All right, tell us again who made up the group, the first group, once you got out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="999">A: When I came to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, there was no group, there was a family, members of the family, there was -- all related to each other.</sentence><sentence id="1000">And they were in -- hesitating if to accept new people.</sentence><sentence id="1001">Because like I had mentioned before, there was a question of supporting them, there was a question of feeding them, and this wasn't the easy thing, because they had nothing with -- a-and they were empty handed.</sentence><sentence id="1002">The whole luck of it was that they were raised -- the Bielskys were raised in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">villages</span>, in <span class="ENV_FEATURES">hills</span>, in <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, wi -- and <span class="ENV_FEATURES">trees</span> were their friends.</sentence><sentence id="1003">So they weren't afraid to knock in a peasant's <span class="DLF">window</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1004">They weren't afraid if -- to knock in -- and they had s -- their stories with the peasant.</sentence><sentence id="1005">For instance my husband -- where they -- wher -- f-first of all where they -- where they came during the day, they didn't sleep the night.</sentence><sentence id="1006">Or they slept, they didn't -- they weren't during the day.</sentence><sentence id="1007">They couldn't stay because they were afraid for their own shadow, and we didn't have any trust.</sentence><sentence id="1008">It's not [indecipherable] determines.</sentence><sentence id="1009">That was, at that time we were -- we organized, it was <span class="REGION">White Russia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1010">So you had the wh -- white Polacks, the white Russian.</sentence><sentence id="1011">Then you had the Polacks that they wanted to be very friendly with the Germans and they helped them a lot.</sentence><sentence id="1012">So to give out a Jew, it was just a cinch.</sentence><sentence id="1013">It was a -- a -- a big deal.</sentence><sentence id="1014">And they were know in there, in their facilities where they lived.</sentence><sentence id="1015">But they had a -- their father had the -- a <span class="BUILDING">mill</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1016">I personally did not know my in-laws.</sentence><sentence id="1017">When I got to know them, they weren't alive already.</sentence><sentence id="1018">Ah, when I could get to know them, they weren't alive already.</sentence><sentence id="1019">They were taken away to [indecipherable] <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and were killed.</sentence><sentence id="1020">So I knew only the one that they were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghettos</span> -- they -- they were in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> with us, I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="1021">And for instance, my husband had a friend -- first of all, my husband was a military man.</sentence><sentence id="1022">He was in the Polish army for two years and he was a very good soldier and he had right away a [indecipherable] of certain things that he did better</sentence><sentence id="1024">5 than others.</sentence><sentence id="1025">He was very good in languages.</sentence><sentence id="1026">First of all, he was g -- he grew up between Gentiles.</sentence><sentence id="1027">They had the business, they had <span class="BUILDING">mills</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1028">They had t-to -- to grind th-their grains, they had to -- to do a lot of things that they -- you know, there was very little <span class="BUILDING">Jewish temples</span>, if they had to go to <span class="BUILDING">temple</span> for a holiday, they had to walk about two, three kilometers.</sentence><sentence id="1029">They didn't have this in their <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1030">They were the only Jewish family in their <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1031">But they had good things too done, and certain people that they want to remember, and th-the -- they pay -- they pay them a good price later on.</sentence><sentence id="1032">Meaning what?</sentence><sentence id="1033">Let's say there was a neighbor, my husband's friend that came to the <span class="BUILDING">mill</span> for a certain thing.</sentence><sentence id="1034">I don't remember what he came for but was -- I really -- I wasn't born there, I don't know the -- the -- all the obstacles there, but that's what I heard and read fa -- about my husband.</sentence><sentence id="1035">So he came there, and there was a he -- they were not poor people either, the -- the neighbors, the -- the man that I'm telling you the story about.</sentence><sentence id="1036">And there was a <span class="BUILDING">mill</span> by [indecipherable] not far from each other, and there was a big <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1037">This guy was 12 or 13 years old and he went to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span>, he jumped, and he drowned.</sentence><sentence id="1038">My husband was right near the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span> and he saw that.</sentence><sentence id="1039">He jumped in his clothes and he saved him.</sentence><sentence id="1040">His parents never could forget that.</sentence><sentence id="1041">In the time of the war, when he find out that he is somewhere in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">neighborhood</span>, he paid him a visit.</sentence><sentence id="1042">But he didn't know even which <span class="BUILDING">house</span> is his.</sentence><sentence id="1043">This was so many years ago.</sentence><sentence id="1044">Accidentally he knocked in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> of his parents, and he ask him about Andre.</sentence><sentence id="1045">And his father says -- he recognized him immediately, he said, "You are -- God brought you here, you are my son's savior.</sentence><sentence id="1046">You saved his life.</sentence><sentence id="1047">He is not living with me, but right here and here he is living, go knock in his <span class="DLF">door</span>, he'll be very happy to see you."</sentence><sentence id="1048">And sure enough he did it, and as he knocked in the <span class="DLF">door</span>, he said to him, "It's a very familiar voice, but I don't know the name, I don't remember you."</sentence><sentence id="1049">He says, "Don't you remember how you drowned and I saved you?" "</sentence><sentence id="1050">Oh my God," he said, "Bielsky, what are you doing?</sentence><sentence id="1051">I thought you are long time not between the</sentence><sentence id="1053">6 living."</sentence><sentence id="1054">Took him in, he stationed him, he gave him to eat.</sentence><sentence id="1055">There was days that th-they were hungry.</sentence><sentence id="1056">They couldn't find the -- a <span class="BUILDING">house</span> to go in or they couldn't, or there was Germans, or there were Poles, or they -- the owner didn't let them in because he was afraid for him his ho -- his lo -- own life.</sentence><sentence id="1057">But a lot of risked their own life.</sentence><sentence id="1058">And he was very happy with him, and he said, "Look, I'm married, I have a family.</sentence><sentence id="1059">Do me a favor, let me tell my wife that you are one from the Polacks that escaped from the army and you are trying to hide, and you are not Jewish."</sentence><sentence id="1060">At the moment my husband said to him, "Okay, tell her what you want."</sentence><sentence id="1061">But as the day passed and he rested up, and he came to his senses, he said, "Why should you lie to your wife?</sentence><sentence id="1062">Did I lie to my conscious by saving you?</sentence><sentence id="1063">I want to tell her the truth."</sentence><sentence id="1064">And sure enough, she reacted beautifully, according to the story from my husband.</sentence><sentence id="1065">She said, "I don't care who you are, you are a human being, and I'Il do anything and everything."</sentence><sentence id="1066">But for the neighbors she tried to play the same game.</sentence><sentence id="1067">And at the same night, her sister-in-law came to visit them, she asks them -- they named him right away a different name, my husband, and she said, "Who is this guest in your <span class="BUILDING">house</span>?"</sentence><sentence id="1068">And she said her name was Mary, and she says, "Mary," to her sister-in-law, "oh, we have a Polish guy that escaped from the army and he's hiding." "</sentence><sentence id="1069">Oh," she said, "you know what?I want them all in my <span class="BUILDING">house</span> next week.</sentence><sentence id="1070">I'll make a little party and we" ll have a good time.</sentence><sentence id="1071">Bring your guest along with you."</sentence><sentence id="1072">Course for some reason, I don't know if they knew or they didn't know, but they didn't go.</sentence><sentence id="1073">Husband and wife didn't go, and my husband went to her, and he knocks in the <span class="DLF">door</span> and walks in, and the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span>'s all set, and five heavy-set Germans are sitting and drinking and eating.</sentence><sentence id="1074">She didn't lose her head -- they ask right away who are you.</sentence><sentence id="1075">She didn't lose her head and she says to them, "Oh, that's a friend.</sentence><sentence id="1076">That's my sister-in-law's friend that he's working for us, blah, blah, blah, whole story.</sentence><sentence id="1077">They shook hands with him, he was shivering.</sentence><sentence id="1078">He said that he da -- he was telling me always that he does not know how the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span> didn't turn over</sentence><sentence id="1080">7 from his knees shaking.</sentence><sentence id="1081">And he said -- and he drank, and he was afra -- afraid to drink too much, maybe he'll say something, you know, you are not responsible for after awhile.</sentence><sentence id="1082">So he said, "You know what, I cannot leave -- I have to go to my <span class="BUILDING">work</span>, I have to go to my job.</sentence><sentence id="1083">I cannot stay too long."</sentence><sentence id="1084">And they ask -- so he ask them, he wanted to know what's going on in the world.</sentence><sentence id="1085">He said, "What's our situation by the way?</sentence><sentence id="1086">How do we fight?" "</sentence><sentence id="1087">Oh, we are so close to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Moscow</span>."</sentence><sentence id="1088">We are so close to here, we are so close to there.</sentence><sentence id="1089">It won't take no time and we'll be the winners of the world.</sentence><sentence id="1090">Shook hands with them nicely, said goodnight and disappeared.</sentence><sentence id="1091">He ran so fast -- it was a cold night -- he ran so fast that he thought in his mind it was a fantasy or a thought, I don't know how to describe that, that somebody's running.</sentence><sentence id="1092">He's hurt, he didn't realize that ha -- he's hurt, he's speeding so fast that he thought that somebody's behind him running after him until he fell into the snow, to the deep snow.</sentence><sentence id="1093">And in the deep snow, saw that it's very cold, he'll freeze to death, he"!l remain here.</sentence><sentence id="1094">He got up, he shlepped through to some other <span class="BUILDING">house</span> where they let him in and -- and at that time it was empty -- still empty handed.</sentence><sentence id="1095">But this guy, I think -- I think, "m not sure, gave him the first gun, or the first rifle, or the si -- fi -- or showed him a <span class="NPIP">place</span> where he could get.</sentence><sentence id="1096">But this was the first guy that filled his hands up that he should -- shouldn't be empty handed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1200">Q: Let's return back to your ex -- you got into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and how big was the group of people there?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1202">A: 17, with us 21.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1204">Q: Okay, and then what happened?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1206">A: And then a short while after that my husband is -- said to the whole group that not to worry, the wa -- like this we won't survive, because small groups will have no chance.</sentence><sentence id="1207">We have to try to bring people from -- from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghettos</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1208">And he wrote a letter to his cousin, it was still in a -- in</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1211">8 [indecipherable] in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek ghetto</span> and he told him, organize as much as you can, because they had another pes -- farmer that spoke beautiful Jewish, you would never sa -- say that he's a Gentile.</sentence><sentence id="1212">And his son was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek</span> in -- in the <span class="BUILDING">police station</span>, a big -- a bigshot.</sentence><sentence id="1213">But he was - - who know -- I don't know, or they paid him or they made money or he was a friend.</sentence><sentence id="1214">I don't know how -- how to -- to calculate that.</sentence><sentence id="1215">But he had the whole information from the [indecipherable] <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and he was the one to send constantly with messages to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and get to the people and give them the letters.</sentence><sentence id="1216">The first letter he sent to his cousin, a Bielsky, too.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1217">His name was Yehuda Bielsky.</sentence><sentence id="1218">And he wrote him, for your sake, "For my sake, for the sake for the Jewish nation, please organize and get out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1219">We had -- the roots are wide, the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">forests</span> are deep.</sentence><sentence id="1220">We'll survive, if not all of us, some of us.</sentence><sentence id="1221">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> you have no chance."</sentence><sentence id="1222">With this message, after awhile, came seven young boys.</sentence><sentence id="1223">And one of them I want to tell you should have died [indecipherable] mentioned it.</sentence><sentence id="1224">And they sat down, seven boys and I think -- and I'm very sure that I don't remember exactly if two wives came with them, or they came a short time after that.</sentence><sentence id="1225">And they came to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1226">And then, in between them, they made a meeting and they said, "Tuvya, you are the oldest from all of us," -- he was at that time in the early 30's, "and you had military experience, you were in the army, you know what discipline is.</sentence><sentence id="1227">We want you to lead the group."</sentence><sentence id="1228">So he answered them, "If you listen to me, and you'll obey my orders, I'll do it.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1229">If not, take somebody else."</sentence><sentence id="1230">So in one voice, they all said, "We'll agree, we'll do whatever you say."</sentence><sentence id="1231">When he was in the army he had a very -- first of all, before the army, when he was a young guy yet, he was always interested in Zionism.</sentence><sentence id="1232">He wanted very much to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> and to work for kibbutz.</sentence><sentence id="1233">But his parents -- one brother was already in the <span class="COUNTRY">States</span> and he -- his -- the condition, the family conditions were so poor that he had no conscious to leave, a -- mommy say -- and -- and his mother said to him, you want to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, fine, take your brothers and sisters</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1236">9 and go because we won't manage -- we won't be able to manage.</sentence><sentence id="1237">So he was, you know, there was all kind of parties in Europe, so he belonged to a party, it was a chalutz, he used to go out for -- for hard work, for <span class="BUILDING">building</span>, for -- for -- for -- for other work, ha -- this was a -- he bel -- he belonged to a party chalutz.</sentence><sentence id="1238">But when he was mobilized to the Polish army, and the word Jew was for him on such a level, that nobody, nobody could ta -- take away the pride from him, being a Jew.</sentence><sentence id="1239">So one time -- and -- and h-he -- he was very -- he was very good in the -- I'm -- I'm going to a very important point here</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1240">Q: [indecipherable] experiences in -- but we want to get -- talk about what you experience with Tuvya, how your relationship developed with him.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1241">A: My relationship developed with him in -- when I was his messenger, and when he saw that I - - I wer -- I was sitting sky high on a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">high chair</span>, and all of a sudden I fell like to the -- to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">earth</span>, and I had nobody to care for me.</sentence><sentence id="1242">And that's when -- that's what -- his heart -- he had -- he had a heart from God, he had a heart from goodness.</sentence><sentence id="1243">He -- just to do your favor or to care for you, that was his whole life, because when he was called Jew in the army, he killed the Gentile, he killed it.</sentence><sentence id="1244">He -- he was about to go to <span class="BUILDING">prison</span> himself, i -- just because he mentioned to him that he is a Jew.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1249">Q: Well he had another relationship with another woman, he'd been married before?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1251">A: He had a relationship before the -- until the Bolsheviks came and the Russian people occupied <span class="REGION">White Russia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1252">He lived 10 years in his little <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1253">He had a big, big business there, and they were very, very well off.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1257">Q: And then what happened to her?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1259">A: And then she had the -- a mother that she had cancer, and her mother wouldn't budge, and she wouldn't leave her, and she wouldn't leave her, and Tuvya could not stay there because the</sentence><sentence id="1261">0 Bolsheviks would send him to <span class="REGION">Siberia</span>, and in that time it was the worst thing that could happen to somebody.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1267">Q: And then he had a relationship with -- with your step --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1268">A: With my --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1269">Q: -- step-aunt.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1271">A: -- m-my step-aunt, right.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1273">Q: And what happened to that relationship?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1275">A: She was killed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1277">Q: She was killed.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1279">A: She was killed together in "43 with her sister, my stepmother -- with her -- my step-mother's son --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1280">Q: And how --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1281">A: -- in a attack of -- of the -- of the -- in -- in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> already.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1283">Q: Let's talk a little bit about your role at a -- in the beginnings of your group getting together in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and how your relationship then developed with him.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1285">A: My relationship that he always cared for me.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1287">Q: Pardon?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1289">A: He always cared for me.</sentence><sentence id="1290">He cared for me, he couldn't see, you know, that -- none justice was done to me.</sentence><sentence id="1291">That he knew from where I'm coming.</sentence><sentence id="1292">He knew that -- how I was raised, he knew how my father was caring for me.</sentence><sentence id="1293">You know, when you live in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> you hear stories, you her - - you hear rumor -- rumors how you were raised, and all of a sudden you saw that, you know, I'm like a slave.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1299">Q: What kind of duties did you have in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1305">A: [had duties, I had to come to my own husband and give him the reports the whole night, I mean eight hours -- six hours, I don't remember already, that you had to stay on -- on parole -- not parole, what do you call this with your rifle in your hands and -- and watch the <span class="BUILDING">headquarters</span>, or watch whoever comes on -- on the base, or whoe -- what -- and in the morning I used to say, commander allo-allow me to tell you and get a report to you that this one and this one came this hour at night with -- with the -- with food, this one went out from the base, a Russian came into the base.</sentence><sentence id="1306">Everything is in order, nothing special happened.</sentence><sentence id="1307">Not everybody used to do that.</sentence><sentence id="1308">I never showed my authority in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> that I am a commander's wife.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1313">Q: Were you involved in any acts of sabotage?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1315">A: I was with him twice, twice I was with him.</sentence><sentence id="1316">One time he was really [indecipherable] Germans, but by Russian -- by Russian people, sniper went through right here, and he died with the scar.</sentence><sentence id="1317">Right here.</sentence><sentence id="1318">I was that time with him and this wasn't -- this was Russian partisans, they did it to him.</sentence><sentence id="1319">They didn't like the idea of being -- getting so big as he got.</sentence><sentence id="1320">And he was the only -- only person that he cared for children and old people.</sentence><sentence id="1321">In the Russian groups, if you had a wife or young per -- a lover or whatever, you couldn't pick her, you had to go out.</sentence><sentence id="1322">You ha -- they throw you right away out.</sentence><sentence id="1323">He opened his arms and said come.</sentence><sentence id="1324">As -- more is better.</sentence><sentence id="1325">And whoever it came to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and other people started to -- to object, what will we do with kids, kids cry.</sentence><sentence id="1326">We-We'll have a -- a -- the -- i-in case the Germans make a raid, which not once had happened that they had the raid, how will you save if a child will cry at night, it a child this and -- that's my responsibility.</sentence><sentence id="1327">I'll do.</sentence><sentence id="1328">I don't guarantee you.</sentence><sentence id="1329">That was always his -- he was always [indecipherable] to make a big meeting in the open <span class="DLF">fields</span> of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> and say, it's my responsibility.</sentence><sentence id="1330">The only thing that I demand from you is to listen, and discipline.</sentence><sentence id="1331">Without discipline we won't be able to continue.</sentence><sentence id="1332">And somehow they had love for him, admiration for</sentence><sentence id="1334">2 him.</sentence><sentence id="1335">And they -- if he wasn't on the base and something happened or the Germans raid or -- or some -- people were lost.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1359">Q: Besides being a messenger for him and making reports, what else were you do --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1360">A: I [indecipherable] the same, I had always to receive the Russian commands to prepare, you know, special food for them.</sentence><sentence id="1361">We needed them.</sentence><sentence id="1362">We had to buy them.</sentence><sentence id="1363">So when, let's say somebody came to visit or he had a meeting for somebody, this was everything in my <span class="INT_SPACE">bunker</span>, I had to receive them, I had to prepare.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1364">Q: At what point did you became man and wife?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1366">A: From the first minute that my hu -- my father got killed, he told me that he'll never, never -- he never had mine -- in his mind -- he -- better saying when his wife was killed, he said, he couldn't do it before, but he always was with me, he always shared my sufferings and he"|l -- I should never be upset because wi -- whatever it will happen to him, it will happen to me.</sentence><sentence id="1367">We'll never, never separate, and he will never leave me alone.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1370">Q: How did your father get killed?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1372">A: My father, he went -- now that my husband allowed him, after his wife, his second wife got killed from the Germans, he wanted to be very brave and pay the Germans for it.</sentence><sentence id="1373">Usually my husband never let him go because at that time comparing 20 - 30, he was a old man in the 40's, so he didn't want him to schlep around, you know, for food, and you never know who will come from the back and -- and shot him, and you -- he liked it to -- to send the young and the brave.</sentence><sentence id="1374">But he was very stubborn about, and he decided that he's going to take, you know, revenge.</sentence><sentence id="1375">Begged my husband not to go and he didn't listen.</sentence><sentence id="1376">Well, it wouldn't be my father, he would take away the rifle and say sit on your behind, excuse my expression.</sentence><sentence id="1377">But here he respected him too much, and he knew that he wasn't -- he was a big businessman.</sentence><sentence id="1378">So he let him go.</sentence><sentence id="1379">And I was</sentence><sentence id="1381">3 sitting at the fire [indecipherable] and I said to him, "Daddy, how can you leave me, I'm all -- already left all alone.</sentence><sentence id="1382">You are the only one, you are the only soul that I possess.</sentence><sentence id="1383">How can you leave me and go?</sentence><sentence id="1384">The times are so un -- unpeaceful, you know, and we never know what will happen.</sentence><sentence id="1385">I don't know if you -- if you go, you never knew if you come back.</sentence><sentence id="1386">How can you do that to me?"</sentence><sentence id="1387">He listened, he picked up himself and he left.</sentence><sentence id="1388">In five, 10 minutes he's coming back.</sentence><sentence id="1389">I said, "Daddy, you see?</sentence><sentence id="1390">You -- you weren't impressed when I was talking to you, but you came to your senses."</sentence><sentence id="1391">He says, "No, I went -- I never go away without kissing you good-bye."</sentence><sentence id="1392">So he came to say good-bye [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1393">12 people was killed that d -- that night.</sentence><sentence id="1394">He went for food, and the farmer send out his son to mou -- to go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and they -- and they told the Germans that here is a group of Jewish people.</sentence><sentence id="1395">He couldn't go, it got too -- too light <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1396">We just moved at night, the day was the night and the night was the day.</sentence><sentence id="1397">Well -- and when there was light <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, nobody from partisans moves around, only at night.</sentence><sentence id="1398">So he send out and a whole group of Germans came, and the -- and they didn't have even a chance.</sentence><sentence id="1399">One guy remained because he knew the pe -- the farmer.</sentence><sentence id="1400">So he went to a <span class="DLF">chicken coop</span> under the [indecipherable].And when everything was over and all the people were killed, he came out and said, "You feel better now?</sentence><sentence id="1401">What do you think?</sentence><sentence id="1402">What did you do?</sentence><sentence id="1403">You will be paid a high price."</sentence><sentence id="1404">So his son came out with a sword, and -- and killed him right on the spot.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1441">Q: Did your partisans group keep moving around, or did you have --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1442">A: Yes, we had to keep -- to move around, we had to move our <span class="REGION">land</span> around because ber -- if we had a big -- oh, what do you call it, the -- we had people that they were investigating constantly what's the conditions, where are the Germans, how far are they from -- from us.</sentence><sentence id="1443">There was always 10 - 12 people around, always on horses, to find out what's going on.</sentence><sentence id="1444">You couldn't live in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> if you wouldn't know how far the Germans are with you -- from you.</sentence><sentence id="1445">And then we</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p></p><p><sentence id="1453">4 had a lot of problems from the Russian partisans.</sentence><sentence id="1454">A lot of problems we had from them.</sentence><sentence id="1455">He used a -- until we got the -- until we got the rifles, until we got the machines, until we got the guns.</sentence><sentence id="1456">And then if a group used to go out, they used to ca -- take away -- take away everything from them, and that's it.</sentence><sentence id="1457">Until my husband put this under the [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1458">Q: Put -- put you under what?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1459">A: Put this on order, he went to the higher command, and they to -- he explained to them that we are all fighting for the same reason, we are all fighting for existence, we all want to survive.</sentence><sentence id="1460">Why should -- and the se -- the -- the aim is the same, to save -- that time was the Russian army, to help the Russian army.</sentence><sentence id="1461">So why are they taking away because we are Jews?</sentence><sentence id="1462">After a lot of fights, after a lot of struggle, they came to the senses and they were punished for doing such a thing.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1467">Q: What was your role as a woman or the other -- was it different than a man?</sentence><sentence id="1468">Did you carry a gun with you?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1471">A: Yeah, I had a gun.</sentence><sentence id="1472">I didn't use too much, but I had.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1475">Q: When did you use it?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1477">A: Lused -- I -- I didn't use my gun.</sentence><sentence id="1478">They -- they took very, very little the in action, the women, because they always had -- don't forget that we had <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> on the base.</sentence><sentence id="1479">We had <span class="NPIP">places</span> that were -- we were making bread and soap and salami and -- and fix all kind of [indecipherable] for us, and for strangers because with that we used to ba -- they used to exchange other things with us.</sentence><sentence id="1480">They were from -- th-they called the -- our base, they called the shtetl of bells.</sentence><sentence id="1481">It had a name, shtetl bells.</sentence><sentence id="1482">The e -- the u -- the little city of bells.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1489">Q: And what -- what were your every day jobs, besides being messengers?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1491">A: You had to have -- there was -- there was <span class="BUILDING">hospitals</span>, there was sick people, there was people in typhus.</sentence><sentence id="1492">Look, in -- in my <span class="NPIP">position</span>, mostly I used to go is sometimes I stayed on the -- on the</sentence><sentence id="1494">5 base, but if he used to go somewhere, not for -- for -- let's say to attacks, I used always to go with my husband.</sentence><sentence id="1495">If it was to go and vi-visit somebody, or he had a meeting with the high authority, then he -- he wasn't the whole authority, they had the <span class="BUILDING">headquarters</span> from the whole partisans of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, which there was a Mr. Platone, that was not his -- his name -- real name, I think Janika was his real name.</sentence><sentence id="1496">And they had to report to him like you have to report to your supervisor, like I had to report to my wherever I worked, my supervisor.</sentence><sentence id="1497">They had to report everything, there wasn't just you can do what you want to do.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1507">Q: And when did you travel, at night?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1509">A: Everything was at night, forget in -- in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> about the day.</sentence><sentence id="1510">We had -- we had a -- a wait for 10 days from the Germans.</sentence><sentence id="1511">Nobody, not from <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span>, not from [indecipherable] survived fully.</sentence><sentence id="1512">Our -- we were at that time, I think, close to 800 - 900 people, and not one was missing.</sentence><sentence id="1513">10 days with no food in -- in -- sitting in water up to your throat.</sentence><sentence id="1514">And so the kids were carried out, because the management, it was [indecipherable].</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1521">Q: Let's talk about how the -- the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> were set up.</sentence><sentence id="1522">Did you sleep in <span class="BUILDING">tents</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1525">A: In <span class="BUILDING">tents</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1526">In <span class="BUILDING">tents</span> in the summer, on the earth, <span class="BUILDING">tents</span> in the winter, used to build things, in the beginning especially and cover them, you know, winter if snow and you make one step, it's very -- it shows.</sentence><sentence id="1527">So we used to take a -- what do you call this?</sentence><sentence id="1528">A strainer.</sentence><sentence id="1529">As you walked, you had a strainer and you cover it right away with the snow, it -- that your steps shouldn't show.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1535">Q: And how many people were in the <span class="BUILDING">tents</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1537">A: Depends.</sentence><sentence id="1538">Usually, you know, friends got together, I want to stay with this one, I want to stay with this one.</sentence><sentence id="1539">And there were bigger <span class="BUILDING">tents</span> and there were smaller <span class="BUILDING">tents</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1540">There were then -- in the winter we had under the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">earth</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1541">We had to build, you know, under because you couldn't -- couldn't survive it's -- the cold.</sentence></p><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1546">Q: How did you do the cooking when [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1547">A: Cookings was like this, for -- it was a general.</sentence><sentence id="1548">Before each husband went on a -- some kind of operation, no matter how you watched him and how he was restricted, you had to bring -- you always brought something for his wife.</sentence><sentence id="1549">So she used to prepare herself.</sentence><sentence id="1550">But there was a general <span class="INT_SPACE">kitchen</span> for everybody.</sentence><sentence id="1551">Special attention [indecipherable] all the people and the kids.</sentence><sentence id="1552">We had rabbis, we had traditions.</sentence><sentence id="1553">You could not force the people to do that, but the -- the people that wanted to observe, they did, they had no problem with it.</sentence><sentence id="1554">They came to my husband, they asked they wanted to pray or they want to b -- to bake matzoh for Passover, they know the date, they were welcome to.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1563">Q: What about personal hygiene and sanitation?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1565">A: We had a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1566">We had a -- it was a problem, and when the problem got -- when we started with typhus, they made a -- they build it, a special what do you call -- it was the <span class="INT_SPACE">solarium</span>, that's for sure.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1569">Q: A special <span class="INT_SPACE">ward</span>, or -- a <span class="BUILDING">ward</span> or a --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1570">A: Right, that had always hot water, and at such a temperature that you could hang up your clothes if you had some insects or lice, or anything in it, it was -- it -- it -- it was -- i -- they got rid of it because the -- the temperature of the heat killed them.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1571">Q: Was lice a problem?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1573">A: Oh yeah.</sentence><sentence id="1574">Sure.</sentence><sentence id="1575">Not everybody.</sentence><sentence id="1576">I didn't have it, I don't know what it means to have it, but it was.</sentence><sentence id="1577">Certain people had it.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1583">Q: How large was your <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, the largest it grew?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1585">A: 1250 people were left in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1586">And this is after we lost -- we lost very little people.</sentence><sentence id="1587">But the last day of ca -- going out from the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> --</sentence></p><p></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1592">Q: Is that -- part were older, and what <span class="NPIP">part</span> were younger?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1593">A: The -- we had -- in the beginning we had a lot of young people, but then the Russian --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1594">Q: Just a min -- could you -- there's -- something's the matter with the tape. [</sentence><sentence id="1595">inaudible] ... I was asking you about the make-up of the group, how many were older people, how many were children. [</sentence><sentence id="1596">indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1597">A: Exactly, I cannot -- there was -- were -- in the beginning was a lot of young people, and then he d -- he didn't rest.</sentence><sentence id="1598">The only thing what he wanted is to save.</sentence><sentence id="1599">And the -- he opened his hands for kids -- for older people and children.</sentence><sentence id="1600">Some [indecipherable] we had -- the children were born in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1601">Abortions were done in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1602">We had a medical staff.</sentence><sentence id="1603">I wouldn't say that we had so -- so much of antibiotics, it was very hard, but certain operations were done.</sentence><sentence id="1604">People with frozen feet were cured.</sentence><sentence id="1605">People with typhuses were cured.</sentence><sentence id="1606">And the food wasn't so excellent excellent that, you know, you could put them so fast on -- on their feet.</sentence><sentence id="1607">But the most privileges of food and milk and the better things had the kids and the old -- elder.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1619">Q: Did you yourself come in contact with any of the Russian partisan [indecipherable].</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1621">A: Oh yeah, sure, sure.</sentence><sentence id="1622">First of all they came to visit us because this was a show, we had shows.</sentence><sentence id="1623">They came to a show, like you are going to a show, like I am going to later a show.</sentence><sentence id="1624">Our kids used to perform, we had [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1625">They prepared it, and at night, whoever had a little talent, they rehearse it and they gave a show, and a lot of people used to come to us cause we had a lot of <span class="INT_SPACE">space</span>, we build a special <span class="NPIP">place</span> for it.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1631">Q: And then you had to continue moving, so you would just pick up --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1632">A: We had to continue moving because we didn't -- we could not show always for a long time that we are staying in one <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1633">This was very dangerous, because if so -- w-we found out our -- a -- not agents, intelligence knew that something that determines a [indecipherable] they heard</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1638">8 the rumor that they know one person knows where we are, more or less the vicinity, we had already at night to pack up and move.</sentence><sentence id="1639">Leave everything behind us and move.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1645">Q: How long were you in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> after [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1646">A: I was from "42 in ju -- end of June, to deg44 July.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1647">Q: And let's talk about July of 44, ha -- how do you remember --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1648">A: That was a messy day, this was a very messy day because we lost nine people that day.</sentence><sentence id="1649">For the whole time of -- besides the group of my father's and the other group on January fifth when my stepmother got killed, there was about five people, I think, this was the biggest amount of people that to -- were killed in one day.</sentence><sentence id="1650">This was when the Russians started to come in, and the Germans started to move out.</sentence><sentence id="1651">And they were wild, and they still had weapon, and -- and they came to our <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, but we weren't afraid of them because we were -- had already a backing from the Russian that we knew that the army's coming in the back.</sentence><sentence id="1652">And our people wanted to take revenge.</sentence><sentence id="1653">So every German that they found, they were killing him.</sentence><sentence id="1654">They were revenging better than they did, believe me.</sentence><sentence id="1655">They cut it -- pieces from them until my husband made a stop of it.</sentence><sentence id="1656">He said, "Just leave it, let's leave them to the authorities, they'Il pay their price."</sentence><sentence id="1657">But before they came up to -- to our -- to our base, they met with our people and they had a fight, and nine people killed at that time in one day.</sentence><sentence id="1658">Next day we led to [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1659">This was a tragedy because to live through years, and then the last day just before freedom, to lose people, he was sick over it.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1660">Q: And the ma -- then you started to leave the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1661">A: He lead them -- he lead them to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1662">He made -- he made -- there was, you know, very little people left, only the one that survived in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1663">That's -- so what -- the people were left, the rest were all Gentiles.</sentence><sentence id="1664">The one -- the war -- the one that lived through the war</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p></p><p><sentence id="1672">9 there.</sentence><sentence id="1673">For Jews there were only the one that escaped for -- to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1674">And maybe some of them were in <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span> that they came later on.</sentence><sentence id="1675">So they organized, each one of the partisans got a -- a notification that he served in the partisans from this year to this year, and now they are free and welcome to go where and do whatever they want.</sentence><sentence id="1676">And each one went out for the document -- there is the doc -- documents in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> to -- that they have, you know, they made photocopies of it, because very little ha -- remained with them.</sentence><sentence id="1677">They could travel to [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1678">Q: And what did you do?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1679">A: They were -- husband didn't stay too long in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Novagudek</span>, my husband decided to go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> and they give him -- he had no problem of getting work.</sentence><sentence id="1680">I was a librarian at that time, I got a job.</sentence><sentence id="1681">And he started to -- we had no electricity in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> during the war, and everything was destroyed.</sentence><sentence id="1682">So they put him on the job to bring back the electricity to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1683">And he should manage that and be in charge of it.</sentence><sentence id="1684">And it was a big deal to build it, but he was very [indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1685">He knew that he wouldn't be able to live in <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span>, and that too many people knew him.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1693">Q: Were just the two of you together?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1695">A: T-Two of us together, and his brother and his wife and a younger brother.</sentence><sentence id="1696">But we lived -- everyone lived separate, so we didn't live together.</sentence><sentence id="1697">And he didn't like the attitude of the Russian people.</sentence><sentence id="1698">He didn't like them in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and he didn't like them coming out from the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1699">And he knew that someday they"!I find some reason to -- to do something to him.</sentence><sentence id="1700">And in not quite a year, I think maybe nine or se-seven months, he decided that he wants to leave <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>, he wants out of <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, he wants out of <span class="COUNTRY">Russia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1701">And that -- then we escaped.</sentence><sentence id="1702">We were again the first ones to escape.</sentence><sentence id="1703">We left.</sentence><sentence id="1704">Him, me, I was pregnant at that time and we went through <span class="NPIP">hell</span>, we came to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span>, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="54.683" long="25.283">Wilna</span> -- but everybody knew my husband, so wherever he came he had a</sentence><sentence id="1706">0 welcome, he had no problems of getting nowhere.</sentence><sentence id="1707">Everything was directed.</sentence><sentence id="1708">People fr -- even from <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> there was [indecipherable] representatives sent from <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, you know, for the survivors to th -- to direct them where to go.</sentence><sentence id="1709">So we were direct to -- to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, I came to my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bialystok</span>, I looked at the -- at the <span class="DLF">streets</span> and the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> and this -- I didn't want to stay one day.</sentence><sentence id="1710">And on top of everything, my husband was recognized by one of the Russian [indecipherable] and he said, "Oh, you are still alive, you are here?"</sentence><sentence id="1711">So next morning we were -- escaped.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1731">Q: Where did you go?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1733">A: We went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="51.248" long="22.57">Lublin</span>, and in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="51.248" long="22.57">Lublin</span> was the same story, we stayed 10 days, after 10 days somebody met him again.</sentence><sentence id="1734">And he didn't want to get involved with them.</sentence><sentence id="1735">And -- and slowly we went through [indecipherable] it wasn't so easy.</sentence><sentence id="1736">We got in touch with the Israeli representatives, and they managed us, from there we went to <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, and then we went to <span class="COUNTRY">Hungary</span> and then we stayed in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> for a half a year.</sentence><sentence id="1737">I lost my child there, and -- and then they -- we got officially certificates from the British government to go to official [indecipherable], yeah, just because of him.</sentence><sentence id="1738">So we legally -- legally by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">boat</span> went -- after a half a year, we stayed in <span class="COUNTRY">Romania</span> a half a year in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">kibbutz</span>, and as th -- and waited for our certificates because they promised them, else we won't go any other way, you'll go legally to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> for your [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1739">Q: And when did you arrive in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1740">A: In "45.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1742">Q: And how long did you stay?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1744">A: I stayed there a la -- quite er -- probably about 11 years, he stayed 10 years because he got very sick.</sentence><sentence id="1745">He had a very bad ulcer, and in that time they didn't operate in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> yet, so he had a family in the States, and they forced him to come and to operate, but he didn't want to do on his</sentence><sentence id="1747">1 own, so he waited I should come, and I had two small kids and I didn't want to part with <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> for no money.</sentence><sentence id="1748">I was tired of wandering.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1756">Q: So when did you arrive in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1758">A: I -- I -- with no choice, I wouldn't leave my husband, in "56, with my son, the one that you saw, and my older daughter, and one son was born in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1760">Q: Is there anything you would like to add to this interview, we're almost finished.</sentence><sentence id="1761">Some statement?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1764">A: 1 -- I would like to say that thanks to him, not only I live, but a lot of people, tens of thousands of people in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> and all over the world because the families got bigger and the families had children, the children had children, and he is counted as a war -- the biggest [indecipherable] in the history.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1766">Q: Well, thank you very much for the time that you spent.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1768">A: You're very welcome.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1770">Q: We're very, very [indecipherable].</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1772">A: [hope I -- I didn't -- I didn't upset you, but it's -- it wasn't a easy story.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1774">Q: Well, what's going to happen now is they" Il stop the tape --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1775">A: Right.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1776">Q: -- and then -- and now set up your photographs, and what they would like you --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1777">A: That's a picture of me, right, coming back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> from the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1778">Q: What <span class="NPIP">year</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1780">A: 744?</sentence><sentence id="1781">1944,</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1782">Q: This was after liberation?</sentence></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1786">A: Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="1787">And this -- this was right after the liberation of ca -- ca -- of -- right after the [indecipherable], when we came [indecipherable] and the liberation.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1790">Q: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="1791">Now they're going to put the next one on.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1794">A: That's the --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1795">Q: Wait, wait, wait.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1796">A: That's my husband's <span class="INT_SPACE">office</span> when he came right -- the first job after we ca -- our liberation in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span>, installing the <span class="BUILDING">electricity station</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1798">Q: And what <span class="NPIP">year</span> was that?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1800">A: deg43.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1802">Q: They're going to go to the next picture.</sentence><sentence id="1803">Always say the year when you --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1804">A: Isee, mm-hm.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1805">Q: Who, what and where -- wait, wait, wait, wait, they haven't started yet, but you know, when this was, where -- no, I know, I know.</sentence><sentence id="1806">But when you do it, you know.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1809">A: I don't know when this was.</sentence><sentence id="1810">This is three partisans, very active partisans from our <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1811">I recall the names Bensiem Kolcovitch, Amber Novitch, and his nickname was Kaderl.</sentence><sentence id="1812">I don't remember exactly the time it was taken.</sentence><sentence id="1813">It was sent to my husband from somewhere.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1819">Q: Do you remember any more of the name of the third person?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1821">A: They -- it's a nickname, Kaderl, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="1822">He was killed in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> in the independence war.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1825">Q: And that -- now they're going to put on the next picture.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1827">A: This is my husband to --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1828">Q: Wait, wait, wait. [</sentence><sentence id="1829">indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1832">A: [indecipherable] gave me a sign.</sentence><sentence id="1833">This is my husband, Tuvya Bielsky, was still with his workers installing the <span class="BUILDING">electric station</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="53.883333" long="25.3">Lida</span> right after we returned from -- from liberation of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1836">Q: Which one is he in the photograph?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1838">A: The first.</sentence><sentence id="1839">The one [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1840">Q: They're going to do the next one now.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1841">A: That's me and my husband in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> in "45 when I was pregnant with my daughter.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1843">Q: The rifles first, and then the <span class="DLF">grave</span> later.</sentence><sentence id="1844">Is that a picture of rifles?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1847">A: I cannot tell you too much about it, because I didn't know who I am or where I am.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1849">Q: Well, just what this is, you know, what -- wh-where it is, what -- what it is and when it is.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1851">A: That's the burial of my husband in 1988 in Hermnahaute in jeru -- in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jerusalem</span>, a military [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1852">Q: Next I'm in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1853">A: That's the grave of Tuvya Bielsky in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Hermnahaute</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1854">The commander of the Jewish partisans.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1857">Q: Could you talk about who's in the photograph, what this is [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1858">A: I can tell --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1859">Q: -- mention a little bit about the people in the photograph.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1861">A: That's a group of [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1862">Q: Why don't you say what it is.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1863">A: This is a group of partisans that celebrated exactly I don't remember the occasion, that wanted to take a picture of him.</sentence><sentence id="1864">And I think he -- that was the last picture that he took with them.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1867">Q: And anybody -- can you point where he is in the photograph, and just say where he is.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1869">A: Yeah, he is sitting, oh, one, two, three, four, five, the fifth one on the -- on the right <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1873">Q: And anybody else in the photograph that you spoke about in your talk, in your interview?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1874">A: There is quite a few people right here.</sentence><sentence id="1875">I know -- shall I -- I know everybody's names, but I don't know if you are interested. [</sentence><sentence id="1876">indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1877">Q: When th -- w-were the people here just from his group, or other gr-groups --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1878">A: All from his group.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1880">Q: -- what was the occasion of this and what --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1881">A: It was only from his group, it was in "85.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1882">Q: And what was the occasion?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1884">A: The occasion, I think they all came to celebrate my youngest son's wedding.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1886">Q: And where was this taken?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1888">A: This was taken in -- in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Brooklyn</span> on -- on a -- a hundred -- on <span class="DLF">93" Street</span>, or <span class="DLF">95" Street</span>, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="1889">That's only part of the group that was there.</sentence><sentence id="1890">This one wanted to take a picture.[indecipherable].</sentence><sentence id="1891">That wasn't the last.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1897">Q: That's going to -- that is the last photo they going to --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1898">A: That wasn't the last, I have the --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1899">Q: No, there are others, right.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1901">A: He had a -- he had a testimonial dinner four months before he died -- five months before he died, so that's not a actually -- it's a mistake, it's not the last picture with the group.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1903">Q: No, I meant this is the last one for you to describe.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1905">A: Right.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1907">Q: For the tape is what I meant.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1909">A: Right, right.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1911">Q: Again we wanted to thank you for coming in --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1914">A: Mm-hm.</sentence><sentence id="1915">You're very welcome.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1916">Q: -- [indecipherable] the interview.</sentence><sentence id="1917">It was very meaningful and always very special.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1920">A: Mm-hm.</sentence><sentence id="1921">For me for sure.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1924">Q: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1926">A: So what's now with the pictures?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1928">Q: You have to get on [indecipherable]</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1929">A: They are -- they are remaining with you, or I'm getting them back?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1930">Q: I'll give them back to you.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1932">A: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="1933">Thank you so much.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1936">Q: Pl come out with you.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1938">Conclusion of Interview</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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