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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: fred none bachner |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0012 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0012_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504447 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1925-09-28 |
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birth_year: 1925.0 |
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place_of_birth: berlin |
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country: germany |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.372.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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--- |
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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: fred none bachner |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0012 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0012_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504447 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1925-09-28 |
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birth_year: 1925.0 |
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place_of_birth: berlin |
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country: germany |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.372.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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--- |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1">Q: Would you tell us your name and where and when you were born?</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3">A: Uh...My name is Fred Bachner.</sentence><sentence id="4">I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, September 28, 1925, and I lived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, I grew up in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> until the age of...uh...thir, fourteen.</sentence><sentence id="5">I..uh...went to the Jewish...uh...<span class="BUILDING">public school</span> because...uh...as a Jew we were not permitted to go into the <span class="BUILDING">German schools</span> so it was a completely Jewish...uh...uh...sustained...uh...<span class="BUILDING">schools</span> within the school system and...uh...1 grew up and I learned during the growing up in the <span class="BUILDING">school</span>...uh...Hebrew and English, which was...uh...uh...taken on an extended program.</sentence><sentence id="6">I went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> from 8 o'clock in the morning til about...uh...3, 4 o'clock in the afternoon, with | hour of break for lunch which we were supplied by the <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="7">And ... uh...we had a very happy environment until the... uh... German laws started to tighten down and...uh...prohibited the Gentile people to associate with us Jews by... uh...starting out...uh...uh...forbidding us to go into certain <span class="NPIP">places</span> such as <span class="DLF">parks</span> and <span class="BUILDING">restaurants</span> and...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">buses</span> and <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> which...uh...was...uh...very well advertised in the anti-Jewish newspaper, the Sturmer, in which always had the big Jewish face with a big hook nose is a picture in front on the first page and...uh.</sentence><sentence id="8">The really...the...the way I started to feel it was when...my friends...we used to live in a...<span class="BUILDING">ina apartment house</span> and we got downstairs to play after <span class="BUILDING">school</span>...when...uh...my friends came over to me and said...uh...my father said I can't play with you anymore because you are a Jew and I don't supposed to associate with you.</sentence><sentence id="9">That's when I really started to...to feel the...the crunch of it, that all of a sudden the... uh ... <span class="DLF">wall</span> started to come down and...uh...we sort of got forced into a more Jewish environment because the only way we could associate was...uh...the Jewish people and...uh...1 joined the Maccabee which is the Zionist organization.</sentence><sentence id="10">We got...uh...meetings every Saturday, get together and camp trips on Sunday, bicycle trips and...uh...I must say that they used to do quite a bit to keep us...the youth happy and...and Jewish oriented and...uh...then it...uh...boiled down that we had a <span class="BUILDING">sports arena</span>, outside <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, where we had the <span class="BUILDING">Maccabee schools</span> competing against each other and organizations and...uh...we started to be dependent upon...among...on...on each other.</sentence><sentence id="11">Then I grew up and years past by and finally I started to get into the age where I had to prepare myself for my Bar Mitzvah which took place at the end of October 1938.</sentence><sentence id="12">and...uh...I had the...uh...I had the Bar Mitzvah teachers...uh...somebody who was very, very knowledgeable in the Jewish Torah and the Maftir (ph) and all that, and...uh...my father</sentence><sentence id="14">wanted me to learn the whole Haf Torah which was Hazin (ph) and also the Maftir (ph) and I...uh...felt very, very honored to be able to...to learn it and to perform before my relatives and the congregation and...uh...it took a hard...a long time for me to learn it but I managed it and when I...the day of my Bar Mitzvah, which was before the...uh...Kristallnacht and as it turned out, one of the very few Bar Mitzvahs left to be performed because... uh ...Kristallnacht was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> on November 9th, where all the <span class="BUILDING">synagogues</span> and <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> were destroyed.</sentence><sentence id="15">Uh...I...1 remember vividly that I woke up and the Kristallnacht was on the ninth of November...uh...and I got up in the morning and it was about 6:30 in the morning because I had to walk to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> which was a little bit of a distance from where we used to live and...uh...but the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> was situated with the...uh...<span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> in back of the <span class="BUILDING">building</span>, a very big <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> and...uh...I came...I left my <span class="BUILDING">house</span> to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and...uh...I seen how the SR was...uh...destroying Jewish...uh...<span class="BUILDING">stores</span> and <span class="INT_SPACE">Jewish apartments</span> by...uh...breaking the glass and throwing the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">furniture</span> and...uh...all be...belongings out on the <span class="DLF">street</span> for destruction, just setting it afire or people just grabbing it and walking away with it.</sentence><sentence id="16">And as I reached the <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, well I didn't know what to do there because the curt...window curtains were hanging out and the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> in the back was practically destroyed.</sentence><sentence id="17">The...uh...ark was open, the Torah was...uh...taken out, the Hebrew books were put in the middle there and set afire, and I was very distraught and didn't know what to do so my first thought was to run back <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and see if my <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and my parents are alright.</sentence><sentence id="18">Thank God...uh..nothing has happened to our <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and...uh...we lived through the...uh...the assault without any damages except that there was a...uh...a...uh...search for people to look...to leave <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> because...uh...the Rabbi in...in our <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> in his last speech said and I vividly remember it today, he said, "It doesn't become daytime before it really gets night."</sentence><sentence id="19">And what he tried to tell us that it is going to get worse before it's going to get better.</sentence><sentence id="20">And naturally peopled started to take this into consideration and they started to talk about leaving <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> any which way possible and there was an onslaught of the <span class="BUILDING">Consulate</span>, appeal by <span class="BUILDING">Columbia</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Shanghai</span> and...uh...any...any...any nation that...that would accept you to go without waiting for long term visa to come to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> and...uh...that...that was the start of the exodus...exodus ...from the Jews from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> although...although this didn't last long because at the end of November, it was the assassination by a...uh...student by the name of Greenblat_* in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Paris</span> to a...uh... German diplomat Neurath **...1 vividly remember their names that set off another race or I should say that set off actually the...the Kristallnacht.</sentence><sentence id="21">I'm sorry, I'm wrong.</sentence><sentence id="22">But the...uh..timing was that the end of November the...uh...the German police rounded up all Polish citizens and it was very easy to distinguish a...uh..person because...uh...<span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> was a dictatorship country and you had to register with the Police</sentence><sentence id="24">regularly.</sentence><sentence id="25">You couldn't change your <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> without the permission from the police, and with the...uh...you had to give them...uh...everybody who is living there, their full name, their Jewish name or whatever it was, and...uh...then they had...uh...also the religion.</sentence><sentence id="26">So to pick out the Jewish...uh...names from...from the <span class="BUILDING">Police precinct</span> was a pretty...uh...easy task.</sentence><sentence id="27">So this how things started to get worse, that all the Polish citizens were...uh...rounded up and my father and my mother were Polish citizens and automatically my brother and I became Polish citizens because according to the German law that you are...you...you become the nationality what your parents are.</sentence><sentence id="28">And...uh...my father and my brother were deported to the <span class="DLF">Polish border</span> and <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> was not prepared of the onslaught of thousands of people and for security reasons because the <span class="DLF">border</span> was very close with <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, they...uh...kept these people in camps at the <span class="DLF">border</span> until they were screened and got the permission to go into <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> where they were born...to the <span class="NPIP">place</span> where they were born.</sentence><sentence id="29">And so...uh...my father and my brother were picked up and they were on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and they were detained at the...uh...<span class="DLF">Polish border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="30">They were there for 2 weeks until they got the permission to proceed to the...uh...<span class="NPIP">place</span> where my father was born and where our family lived.</sentence><sentence id="31">And..-uh...my late mother and I...we were not permitted to join them, so all of a sudden things have changed...uh...financially because there was no money coming in anymore.</sentence><sentence id="32">We had the big <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>.</sentence><sentence id="33">My father was a well-to-do person in his own way in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and...uh...we had to sort of...uh...see how we can sustain ourselves by...uh...by doing some necessary...uh...adjustment.</sentence><sentence id="34">Now...uh...we had a big <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, five <span class="INT_SPACE">rooms</span> with a <span class="DLF">service entrance</span> and so on and so forth, so we...we thought that we would rent out a...uh...a..uh... <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> and...uh...take somebody in to live there, and we rented it out to an elderly couple, and they moved in with us and they paid us rent which helped us to sustain ourselves to the time, you know, that...uh...until we can meet...uh...be together with my father and brother.</sentence><sentence id="35">And...uh...we...uh...my mother did...uh...a few...uh...things.</sentence><sentence id="36">She was a pretty good seamstress in her own way, and I did some odd work, deliver paper or whatever it was and got some income as far as that was concerned.</sentence><sentence id="37">It was only pennies, but...uh...every, every penny helped that time.</sentence><sentence id="38">And...uh...my father, as I mentioned before, after 2 weeks was...uh...capable to join...to go proceed to the <span class="NPIP">place</span> where he was born and to establish himself and wait for our arrival.</sentence><sentence id="39">Now the Polish government issued...uh...a red stamp in your passport that permitted you to return to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="40">On the interim we had some cousins in <span class="COUNTRY">America</span> and we wrote to them that things are bad, we need visas, which they started to...uh...to..-uh...proceed with and they finally got the visas and they were issued to us about a week before we left <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and...uh...then we had to...uh...have them transferred from the <span class="BUILDING">American Consulate</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> to the <span class="BUILDING">Consulate</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="41">Now the...uh...Polish quota for...uh...Polish citizens to come to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> was...there was a 4 to 5 year wait so that picture didn't look very bright, but I must say that the Jewish Agency was working very, very hard to get the kids and the youth out of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, out of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">fire</span>,</sentence><sentence id="43">and my grandparents from my mother's side, they left <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> in 1935 and they settled in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Amsterdam</span>.</sentence><sentence id="44">And...uh...we were in touch with them and...uh...they said we have...you register for...for a transport from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Amsterdam</span> and then you will be able to proceed from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Amsterdam</span> either to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">London</span> or to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>".</sentence><sentence id="45">So we packed up a suitcase and put it (chuckle) next to the <span class="DLF">door</span> and...uh...L...1 made...I was sort of prepared, you know, to leave my mother and...uh...that I might get a telephone call.</sentence><sentence id="46">That's all we would have gotten and be at the...in 5 hours at the <span class="BUILDING">train station</span>, and you're gonna go with that transport to...uh...to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Amsterdam</span>.</sentence><sentence id="47">Uh...I also was registered in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> to go on a transport direct to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>" on Aliyah, but unfortunately, as it turned out that phone call never came and the...uh...letter for <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> never came either because in June 1939, we got the call from the Polish government to come and pick up the...the stamp...that we are able to leave <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>.</sentence><sentence id="48">And...uh...so my late mother and I, we went to the Polish government and got that stamp, you know, and we left the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and...uh...on the interim, in the meanwhile it was too hard...these people got sick and anyhow I don't remember exactly what happened to the elderly people that lived with us, but...uh...we...uh...we moved out of the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and moved in with another...uh...another couple on the same...same <span class="BUILDING">building</span> on the first <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> and rented one <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="49">Now we became the...(chuckle)...the...uh...tenants.</sentence><sentence id="50">And...uh...when we left, we left everything there.</sentence><sentence id="51">And uh...we didn't have anything to sell because we sold our <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">furniture</span> and this sustained ourselves to live...uh...to have food come in...in..-uh...and as long as we were by ourselves.</sentence><sentence id="52">Now the big moment came and we purchased the tickets and we took the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>...uh...to my father's...uh...to my father and my brother to be reunited.</sentence><sentence id="53">And naturally where upon arrival it was a great...uh...great occasion, you know that being separated for almost a year and a half that we...uh...finally got together.</sentence><sentence id="54">So now came the worry for my father...what to do and where...where to establish himself because he...he didn't know by himself what to do in the interim...uh...in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, and he...uh...sort of waited for us to wait for a decision what my mother wanted...thought what the family should do.</sentence><sentence id="55">So naturally we took...uh...sort of a vacation and...uh...my father and my mother...we...we went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Krakow</span>.</sentence><sentence id="56">And...uh...we tried to rent an <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> there and to have whatever we had...the few suitcases go and, you know, we used to live with my father's family there, which graciously took us in.</sentence><sentence id="57">I mean, you know...uh...in Europe there was no such thing...there was <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> in the smallest <span class="BUILDING">hut</span> like they used to say, you know, and....uh...and...uh...it came...came the time that we thought that we finally be able to carry on with a normal life because I would have to enroll into <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and to learn to...how to speak Polish which is a pretty hard language.</sentence><sentence id="58">And I...uh...then...then all of a sudden on September Ist, there was already a rumor and a feeling that war is imminent "<span class="COUNTRY">Palestine</span> before 1948.*Palestine before 1948.</sentence><sentence id="60">and it might start any day because the Polish government started to issue orders that you tape up your <span class="DLF">windows</span> because from the air raid the <span class="DLF">windows</span> might crack and they shatter on the <span class="DLF">street</span> and hurt people and what not, you know.</sentence><sentence id="61">So the feeling was already that there is going to be a war.</sentence><sentence id="62">And sure enough they started...uh...in...in August, they started to dig <span class="DLF">trenches</span> around the...the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> where...uh...the...uh... homefront would defend that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> and they were...they were full gung ho that they're going to beat the Germans.</sentence><sentence id="63">But I couldn't see that with the horses what they had...not...not being mobilized at all, that they're going to have any kind ofa success you know.</sentence><sentence id="64">And the geographic situation of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> where my father was, it was not too far away from the <span class="DLF">German border</span> and it was only 10 kilometers away from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Oswiecim</span>.</sentence><sentence id="65">And I will come back to that later.</sentence><sentence id="66">And...uh...we....the Declaration of War was on September Ist.</sentence><sentence id="67">Naturally, right away we had air raids, and we had all kinds of...uh...war threats that the Germans beat the Pole...Poles, and the they take already and this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and we should evacuate the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>.</sentence><sentence id="68">So the people started to pack up on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">baby carriages</span> and hand carriages and they started to march out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> into further away from the...from the <span class="DLF">border</span> to be in a safe zone.</sentence><sentence id="69">So...uh...we took everything into a suitcase and we grabbed a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">baby carriage</span> and put it on top of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">baby carriage</span> and our family we started to hold ourselves together and started to march to evacuate further in..into <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="70">Now I don't remember exactly how many kilometers we marched or so, but it was...uh...I don't know, it was about...we managed in...in 4 days, in 5 days to go about...uh...100 kilometers or maybe 70 kilometers and we walked across the <span class="DLF">fields</span> you know, because the...uh...corn was already taken in and the hay and the potatoes were...only the potatoes were still out in the <span class="DLF">field</span> because this is a very big farm country, <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="71">So...uh...we started to go further and we...we walked further and who do we meet there?</sentence><sentence id="72">The German soldiers.</sentence><sentence id="73">Because they got ahead of us, not...not by...on the...on the <span class="DLF">road</span>, but they were parachuting in to the...to the <span class="REGION">advance areas</span> and securing the <span class="REGION">advance areas</span> and when we came, you know, the...we come there, we see the German soldiers and they said, "Oh, Go back <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="74">Go back <span class="BUILDING">home</span>."</sentence><sentence id="75">That's all you...they ever use... "Whatever <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> you are from, go back <span class="BUILDING">home</span>."</sentence><sentence id="76">And right there and then they started a big anti-Semitism by the soldiers to...to see....the Jews...the religious Jewish people used to have beards, and big pais (ph), you know.</sentence><sentence id="77">And...and you...you wouldn't believe it but they started literally to rip out the beard and rip out the thing, and you know...uh...so the Jews, you know, they started to...to take a bandage around the...the...uh...the chin and hide the hair from the beard in there, and when the German came, you know, you had a toothache or headache or, you know, whatever it was to...to save themselves with the beard.</sentence><sentence id="78">And that's...that was actually the beginning of the atrocities that they had.</sentence><sentence id="79">And after...after a couple of days we came back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> which we left and everything... everything has changed.</sentence><sentence id="80">The German Army occupied the...the</sentence><sentence id="82"><span class="BUILDING">village</span> or I should say maybe the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, whatever it is.</sentence><sentence id="83">And the...uh...they started to take every...uh...capable person who could perform any kind of...uh...work, they grabbed you off the <span class="DLF">street</span> and they took you in one of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> and they carried you away to perform some kind of work for the army, whatever it is...clean the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> or clean the horses, you know, whatever it is to...uh...uh...to make it comfortable for the army. (</sentence><sentence id="84">Pause, drinking water) So that was the beginning of establishing <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">work camps</span> which was supervised by the German army and it was that if you were a...first of all there was a...a...uh...order out that every humanbeing...every male person at the age of 12 or 13 has to work.</sentence><sentence id="85">Otherwise, you wouldn't get any food stamps.</sentence><sentence id="86">Otherwise you would not get any privileges and if you are caught in the <span class="DLF">streets</span> and you cannot document that you have a job, they take you and work you away.</sentence><sentence id="87">So that is how my brother got caught and...uh...now he didn't get caught.</sentence><sentence id="88">There was an order out that all the...uh...Jewish males between the age of 14 and 18 have to register at the police department and...uh...that..-uh....that all of was change because they establish a <span class="BUILDING">Jewish community center</span> where...like we have here in <span class="COUNTRY">America</span>, that you have a <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, you have a president and a vice president and so on and so forth, and they established that for the community.</sentence><sentence id="89">And they did all the work for the Germans registering.</sentence><sentence id="90">You were registered there and they know everything where you lived and all that.</sentence><sentence id="91">And...uh...that was the legal...uh...that you were legalized and permitted to live there.</sentence><sentence id="92">So you had to register in that...uh...that <span class="BUILDING">agency</span> you I will call it, and..uh...you...and they had...uh...and after...after you register...after 3 or 4 days everybody registered, then they sent a policeman to your <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and they took you down to the <span class="BUILDING">police station</span> and they carried you away to a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">work camp</span> that was in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="93">Now <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> uprooted <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and you had to take the roots out because that's where they built the autobahns, you see.</sentence><sentence id="94">And at the later date, about a year or 2 later, they built <span class="BUILDING">factories</span> there because they suffered heavy losses in the West where the German industry was and they relocated the <span class="BUILDING">factories</span> north to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and so on and so forth where they could perform...work on...on ammunition and guns and so on and so forth.</sentence><sentence id="95">And that's where the workers...uh...got into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and these <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>, they were erected overnight and...uh...that's where my brother was taken to a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">work camp</span> at the 1940.</sentence><sentence id="96">So again, was a disruption in the family life.</sentence><sentence id="97">I had to go and register to work and my father and my mother and so on and so forth, and I...I was...1 would say lucky or not, but I befriended myself with a...a Jewish girl and...uh...she was about 2 years younger than I was, and her father owned a...uh...a..uh...distribution center of sodas and beer.</sentence><sentence id="98">And when all this...these things started to tighten down, I said, "You know, I got to get a job.</sentence><sentence id="99">Can I get a job with your father."</sentence><sentence id="100">She says, "Sure, my father will take you down."</sentence><sentence id="101">Now by the time I...I...I tried to procrastinate it as long as I could, you know, and in the...in the meantime, the father's business was taken over by a Volksdeutsche.</sentence><sentence id="102">That is a person who is Polish but has German ancestry in him, you see.</sentence><sentence id="103">So he just came in your <span class="BUILDING">business</span> and he</sentence><sentence id="105">was the boss and all that.</sentence><sentence id="106">So...so L...so her father spoke to the guy and he said, "Yes."</sentence><sentence id="107">So what...what was the work, and I was...that time I was 14 and a half.</sentence><sentence id="108">Uh...I was permitted...I was not permitted, I was given a team of horses and a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> which I had to load in the morning with beer barrels and sodas and all that and go around in the...in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> and, you know, deliver it to the...uh...<span class="BUILDING">stores</span>, the luncheonettes or the...uh...the <span class="BUILDING">bars</span>, you know, wherever they...they sell beers.</sentence><sentence id="109">And...uh...it was a...a very demanding job because I had to get up at...uh...5...uh...o'clock in the morning and go to the <span class="BUILDING">stable</span> and clean the horses, water them down, give them hay to eat and...yah...and then go out and load the big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> up, you know, and take the beer barrels and...and lift them on God knows what you know.</sentence><sentence id="110">So L...I did that and...uh...as a...as a young kid, I was capable of adjusting myself to it, and I took care of it the best possible way and it was pretty good.</sentence><sentence id="111">I mean the guy was tickled pink because I managed how to drive a team of horses and...uh...in winter time we...uh...drove a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sled</span>.</sentence><sentence id="112">And...uh...there was no...no <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cars</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="113">I mean there were very, very few...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">cars</span> in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> or <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> and...uh...it took a lot of learning to control a team of horses to...uh...get the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">sled</span> or <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> down the <span class="DLF">hill</span> that...uh...pushes a load...pull a load, you know, and you go down the steep <span class="DLF">hill</span> and the horse has to hold it back and, you know, so it's ...uh...it's pretty dangerous, let me tell you.</sentence><sentence id="114">So my brother was in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and we got....uh...mail from him at...uh...14 days intervals or later or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="115">My father was working in a <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> for the army to make...uh...coats and so was my late mother, but they worked in different shifts.</sentence><sentence id="116">And I was working in the <span class="BUILDING">beer brewery</span> and...uh...1 was distributing beer and...uh...soda.</sentence><sentence id="117">Now all of a sudden the...in the surrounding of that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>...uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">POW camps</span> started to spruce up, and...uh...they put their orders in for beer to be delivered and...uh...the ...the German boss I had, he said,...uh..."Well, you don't look Jewish, you know, and you have that...uh...uh...piece of silk cloth you wear in order to protect your clothing when you go down to the <span class="INT_SPACE">basement</span> to roll down the...the barrels of beer, and you can haul the...you can hide the Jewish star, you know, so you know if they question you, you can move the thing away and what you're gonna go to these <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> and you're gonna deliver the beer."</sentence><sentence id="118">So I did that and...uh...and lo and behold...uh...in my...you know, in my lifetime, I had...as we...as you will hear later, I consider myself a little bit lucky because I had very few...1 had a few occasions which...uh...I will tell you that I was lucky.</sentence><sentence id="119">So I go into that particular <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> there and deliver the beer and I speak to the commander of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and all that, and I looked through the...uh...<span class="DLF">barbed wire</span> in a...in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and...uh...I see my brother there, you know.</sentence><sentence id="120">So I...1 was...1 was perplexed.</sentence><sentence id="121">I thought my brother was in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="122">Now he is in travel distance from...from us, you know.</sentence><sentence id="123">So I spoke to the commander and I said I have to...I have to go...uh... L...1 see somebody I know there.</sentence><sentence id="124">Can I...can I go and see him?</sentence><sentence id="125">You know, and I handed him a pack of cigarettes and he says, "Yeah, Go and see him, and...uh...but...but don't stay too long."</sentence><sentence id="126">So they opened the <span class="DLF">gate</span> and I walked in and I embraced my brother and as I was there, I also know that there was a school mate or...not a school mate, a classmate of mine in the same <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="127">So I see my brother and my brother...I said, "How do you get here?"</sentence><sentence id="128">He says, "Well, I was a...uh...a...uh...first aid man for the sick people, and they got</sentence><sentence id="130">me...uh...to take care of the sick people here, you know, to administer first aid, and that's how I got here."</sentence><sentence id="131">I said, "Well, that's great.</sentence><sentence id="132">You know, I come here...[ come here every day."</sentence><sentence id="133">And...uh...all of a sudden I asked...I said to my brother, "You have people die here?"</sentence><sentence id="134">He says, "Sure, we have at least six, seven people a day."</sentence><sentence id="135">I says, "I mean I...I don't know til today how that idea came into my head."</sentence><sentence id="136">I says, "You have any way to bury them?"</sentence><sentence id="137">He says, "Yal, we save them here for...for 3, 4 days and then we carry them out and take them people and carry them out and bury them."</sentence><sentence id="138">I said, "You think if I talk to the commander and I can arrange to carry the people into...to our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> which the name is Chrzanow C H R Z AN O W (chuckle) and...uh...uh...you think, he might go."</sentence><sentence id="139">He said, "Look, all you can do is try."</sentence><sentence id="140">So, I said goodbye, you know, and I said I...I'll be back tomorrow for whatever reason.</sentence><sentence id="141">So I talked to the commander and he said, "No.</sentence><sentence id="142">No good."</sentence><sentence id="143">But anyway next load I went out there with beer.</sentence><sentence id="144">I...uh...took some bread along and...uh...I...Uh...took bread along for my brother to distribute it in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and to give it to my classmate, you know.</sentence><sentence id="145">You can imagine the...the joy we had and...uh...we established some kind of a contact...my brother established some kind of contact with some of the guards.</sentence><sentence id="146">But anyway he...he suggested that to the camp commander and the camp commander says, "Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="147">Why not, you know."</sentence><sentence id="148">So I said, "You know something, I am going to come back on Sunday with a...with the boxes for dead people you know, and we going to take all the people, you gonna take 10 people with two guards, you gonna go...you gonna march into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> where we are, we gonna bury them with a Jewish burial and all that.</sentence><sentence id="149">And...uh...the camp commander, he must have been a pretty regular guy.</sentence><sentence id="150">He accepted it, and he said, "Yal," you know.</sentence><sentence id="151">So I came out on Sunday and I had the...the box loaded with bread and shoes and everybody and for the...for the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="152">I...in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>, you know, I spread the word that this and this happened.</sentence><sentence id="153">I met my brother and this is...we gonna arrange and, you know, so any way Sunday I came out and I picked up the dead people and they came and marched in, went out to the <span class="DLF">cemetery</span> and then when we were finished, we took the guards and we gave them water to drink and gave them to eat and the...uh...we took the 10 people in the <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span>, in the main <span class="BUILDING">synagogue</span> and...uh...the people had cooked up some soup, potatoes, and they bought clothing.</sentence><sentence id="154">You know, it was unbelievable you know, and uh...that I established that and it...it lasted for about another...another two months, that I...uh... uh...was able to do that without any complications.</sentence><sentence id="155">But then complications started to come in because we...uh....uh... they had...they established the delousing ...uh...factory in...in our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>, you see.</sentence><sentence id="156">So I said, "You know, why don't you get the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> in there."</sentence><sentence id="157">Now, I was the instigator because it was in my blood and I did it all along.</sentence><sentence id="158">So I instigated the...uh...the...uh...the situation that the...uh..whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> came into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> in two sections, you know, and...uh...they were all fed, and you know, the guards, they had more guards come in because there were more people to watch and...uh...it was...it was a very,</sentence><sentence id="160">very rare and seldom occasion, you see.</sentence><sentence id="161">And here I might inject also that I also went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> to deliver beer there and I seen what was going on because we seen the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transports</span> that was going to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> had to go through that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> and the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, and we heard the crying, and we heard the...the...the distress notes, you know from the people in there, because they somehow sensed where they were going.</sentence><sentence id="162">But unfortunately the <span class="DLF">windows</span> were black.</sentence><sentence id="163">You know, they were blacked out that you couldn't see anything, but we knew in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span> where the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> are going and where we think they're going and...uh...when I went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> to deliver beer I had some contact with people working there and I spoke to them and they told me what's going on, so I brought the news back to the...to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>.</sentence><sentence id="164">You know, I was kind of the...uh...like they say in Hebrew, sheliach (ph), somebody whose...gets the messages back and forth.</sentence><sentence id="165">But every...everything...every hour the good things come to an end and...uh..one morning I left my <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and I got downstairs and I noticed that the...uh...the German army...they cut off the <span class="DLF">streets</span> and they sent all the people that were walk...walk...walking at that time in the morning, 5 o'clock in the morning, send them back <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="166">They wouldn't let them go.</sentence><sentence id="167">So being the rascal I am, you know, I went...uh...through the <span class="DLF">fields</span>.</sentence><sentence id="168">Now I went back upstairs and I woke up my late mother and I said, "Look, there's going to be something.</sentence><sentence id="169">Maybe they're looking for butter and eggs that you might have more than...than your coupons give you...uh...and...uh...you might...uh...would like to hide something to do it because something is going to happen."</sentence><sentence id="170">I managed to get myself across the <span class="DLF">fields</span> into the...the property where that <span class="BUILDING">brewery</span> was and into the...uh...uh...stable where the horses were.</sentence><sentence id="171">I was there.</sentence><sentence id="172">I cleaned the horses.</sentence><sentence id="173">Then the owner and the father from the girl came and...uh...we sat down and we started to talk.</sentence><sentence id="174">What is...why is this thing to do, and what is going on, you know.</sentence><sentence id="175">So the German...uh...boss came back to us and said, "You know, they're taking everybody out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>.</sentence><sentence id="176">Everybody.</sentence><sentence id="177">There's nobody here.</sentence><sentence id="178">There's nobody...uh... uh... left over.</sentence><sentence id="179">Everything.</sentence><sentence id="180">But you stay here as long as you...as you want."</sentence><sentence id="181">And...uh...I mean I had experiences before where the, you know, when they were looking for people...be able to send them away.</sentence><sentence id="182">They came to their <span class="BUILDING">houses</span>.</sentence><sentence id="183">They...you know and I knew about it.</sentence><sentence id="184">I was hiding there and...uh...but this time, I think that was the end of the rope.</sentence><sentence id="185">So we did...uh...I loaded up the...the...uh...the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">carriage</span> and...uh...but we had to send somebody else on the route where I..-which I supposed to take care of and we were hiding in the <span class="BUILDING">stable</span>.</sentence><sentence id="186">And we were hiding there all day long til in the evening and we said now nighttime is here.</sentence><sentence id="187">What...what...what is next?</sentence><sentence id="188">You wanta hide here?</sentence><sentence id="189">You wanta go somewheres else in...uh...you know, in the nighttime?</sentence><sentence id="190">And...uh...we did...uh...with the news that we had, we decided...they decided that...uh...1 mean I was the youngest one there, so (chuckle) naturally the...the grownups had more to say about it, so (pause, drinking water) we decided to talk to the German boss that we were working for him all day long and now the day is over that he should take us back to the police and whatever it is that he should do with us.</sentence><sentence id="191">And that was the case.</sentence><sentence id="194">0 We were brought by the German...uh...boss from the <span class="BUILDING">brewery</span>...uh...to the <span class="BUILDING">police station</span> and...uh...we were... the reception was very cold and, you know, "aha we have another four Jews here.</sentence><sentence id="195">Come on.</sentence><sentence id="196">Let's get rid of them."</sentence><sentence id="197">You know, So naturally we were taken down to the <span class="BUILDING">railroad station</span> and put into the famous <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>.</sentence><sentence id="198">Not knowing where we go, but we were told that...uh...that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> is going to go into a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">labor camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="199">So how true it is we didn't know, but after being a...uh...being in the...in the...uh...situation, you know...uh...uh... constant, I mean, you...you...you cannot put yourself today in the...in the mental condition when you're faced with...uh ...uh...uh...death or life or...that...that what it boiled down to you know.</sentence><sentence id="200">Either you go for life or for death you know, because these <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> were going to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and in between it was going to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">labor camps</span>, so you didn't know what...what <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> you were on.</sentence><sentence id="201">But anyway we...the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> finally set itself into motion and...uh...we were transport into a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>...uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Markstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="202">The name was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Markstadt</span>.</sentence><sentence id="203">Now we got out of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and...uh...you know, the...the reception was (chuckle) was...uh...you got the beating, you had to fall in <span class="DLF">line</span>, you had to do lots of things you didn't do before in your life, and...uh... you were assigned a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunk</span> at that time, and...uh...all of us...then...then we were...uh...told to fall out and we were going to work.</sentence><sentence id="204">And...uh...we went to work the first day...uh..and when we came back the...uh...there was a rumor that there...from this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, was gonna go a transport to another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, and there is a...a transport is coming from our city of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Chrzanow</span> into that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> where we are going to go out...where the...where the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> is going to go out.</sentence><sentence id="205">And somebody told me that my father is going to be in that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="206">Now, I am going to say something which...uh...you know, lot of people wouldn't understand the reason for it, but what I witnessed that day being in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> where they beat up the elderly people and make mush out of...out of them, you know, and the...the way they talk and the beat them and all that, L...I personally wouldn't be able to stand it, to see my father being treated that way and...and be...be there and not be able to do anything.</sentence><sentence id="207">And if I would do, I would get killed.</sentence><sentence id="208">So I said I have to get myself into that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> and...uh...I...uh...was able to manage my...manage myself to get into that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> and be transported out...out of that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and to a different <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="209">And...uh...today, I...[ must say that I am still amazed that what I am going to say is that I received word that my father's going to be in that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="210">And there was no radio, there was no mail, there was no communication, but somehow news leaked out and whatever it was...and it actually was that my father was in the transport coming to that particular <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="211">And I got transported out to another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, and that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was...was <span class="NPIP">hell on earth</span> because it was a...a old...uh...<span class="BUILDING">mill</span> which was a <span class="BUILDING">building</span>...uh...four floors up and...uh...we had to get up at about 4:30 in the morning because we walk...we walked to work which was about a 10, 12 kilometer stretch.</sentence><sentence id="212">But to...the...the getting up in the morning was there were people with a...with a...uh...whip</sentence><sentence id="214">1 and they started on the <span class="INT_SPACE">top floor</span> to...to whip the people out of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span> and to get you down to stand for...to be counted because we did that six times a day, and God forbid somebody should...should run away or something which was a impossibility.</sentence><sentence id="215">And...uh...so in other words there was a narrow <span class="DLF">staircase</span> like in a <span class="BUILDING">mill</span> going down to the...to the...to the <span class="INT_SPACE">basement</span> where...where the..uh..to the <span class="INT_SPACE">ground floor</span> and..uh..it was the...uh.. very, very...uh...uh...close situation that we went down there, you know.</sentence><sentence id="216">So we went...uh...but we didn't walk down the <span class="DLF">steps</span>, we flew down the <span class="DLF">steps</span> and...uh...then we walked to work, and it was a very un...uh...unclean <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because there was no wash facilities.</sentence><sentence id="217">There was no soap.</sentence><sentence id="218">There was nothing there.</sentence><sentence id="219">And...uh...uh...the end result was that after awhile...uh...typhoid broke out in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and...uh...three quarters of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> died and...uh...I was...1 was a lucky person.</sentence><sentence id="220">I contracted the typhoid...uh...at the very beginning and...uh...I was lucky that I had a friend of mine who...uh...when he came back from work, he looked after me and he brought some water.</sentence><sentence id="221">We had no...no...uh...fever thermometers.</sentence><sentence id="222">We had no...uh...no first aid.</sentence><sentence id="223">We had no medications.</sentence><sentence id="224">We had nothing.</sentence><sentence id="225">Nothing!</sentence><sentence id="226">You were just laying there, and you were dying, you see.</sentence><sentence id="227">And...uh...I was lucky that the guy came to me and gave me water to drink.</sentence><sentence id="228">That...uh...that kept the fever down.</sentence><sentence id="229">I don't know if it kept it down enough, but after about 2 weeks I started to get better and started to come to myself...uh...and...uh... then L..1 had to get up and...uh...be in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and get rid of the dead people and, you know, and...uh...clean the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span>, attend to the sick people, whatever could be attended, you know, make them comfortable.</sentence><sentence id="230">Uh...You know, their mouth was dried up, you know, with...uh...with...uh...mucous, whatever it is, you know.</sentence><sentence id="231">They choked to death.</sentence><sentence id="232">All...all kind of things and...and they the strong people, you know the big people, you know, they were the first ones that...that died.</sentence><sentence id="233">And then all kind of after sicknesses started to...to develop, which also took a lot of people.</sentence><sentence id="234">I... never forget there was a guy, you know, in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunk</span>.</sentence><sentence id="235">The <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span> were three tiers high, and he was on top.</sentence><sentence id="236">He was from <span class="COUNTRY">Holland</span> and...uh...he was completely corroded.</sentence><sentence id="237">I mean he fell...he fell...he fell off his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunk</span>.</sentence><sentence id="238">I'll never forget as long as I live.</sentence><sentence id="239">He...he fell off his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunk</span> and his head was...was split open like a...like a rotten tomato.</sentence><sentence id="240">Can you imagine that?</sentence><sentence id="241">And that was...that was the way that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was.</sentence><sentence id="242">And...uh...after we kept...more people started to get better so, you know, it was a little bit easier for us...the survivors from the typhoid, I mean, to form the...the...uh...task that we were asked to do because we...we took...uh...you know, we...we were...we had to dig a <span class="DLF">ditch</span>...a...a <span class="DLF">ditch</span> outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, and we took a hand <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> loaded up with 10 bodies, 15 bodies and we rolled it over to the <span class="DLF">ditch</span> and just flipped the thing over and the bodies just went down there and nobody knows who, what, when, or where, and...uh...and then, you know, there was diarrhea.</sentence><sentence id="243">There were all...all...all kind of other sicknesses.</sentence><sentence id="244">I mean I... had the puss disease here in my neck and puss, you know, it was swollen up here.</sentence><sentence id="245">And the...uh...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">puss</span> was running out, you know, like...like...like from a faucet, you know.</sentence><sentence id="246">But I kept to myself in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and L...uh...keep myself as clean as possible which was pretty tough task in itself and I managed to...to kept myself always on the upper echelon because I...1 associated myself with...with people and...uh...you know,</sentence><sentence id="248">2 and...uh...we managed to...to overcome.</sentence><sentence id="249">But it was an hour to hour situation.</sentence><sentence id="250">We lived through one hour so we say well, let me see if I am going to live through that hour, you know.</sentence><sentence id="251">And...uh...the morale was...was not bad because I...I survived on hope and I said, you know, alright I lived through this hour.</sentence><sentence id="252">Let me see how I making out the other hour, and that gave me hope to...uh...to continue to...to do that.</sentence><sentence id="253">So, then the...uh...there came an order to liquidate that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, and we went to another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and there was a shortage on food, and they gave us rotten...rotten potatoes with...they gave us a spinach...maple leaves.</sentence><sentence id="254">They cooked it up and...and...1...1 mean we were that hungry.</sentence><sentence id="255">We were starved, and we couldn't bring ourselves to eat that.</sentence><sentence id="256">And you could pick up portions after portions of...of that thing, they thought they're gonna feed us, and we...you couldn't swallow it.</sentence><sentence id="257">You couldn't swallow it and...and despite the fact that..-uh...hunger was great and everything that the...uh...inmates...uh...stole the bread from one each other and...uh...it's unbelievable.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="539">Q: We have to stop here.</sentence><sentence id="540">They're going to change the tape.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="543">A: Alright.</sentence><sentence id="544">That gives me a chance to drink some water.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="547">Q: Okay.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="551">3 Tape #2</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="552">A: Now...uh...we were transported between the two <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="553">They were...uh...within about...uh...a distance of about 15 kilometers or something like that and their name was ...uh...Greditz (ph) and...uh...Falbruck (ph) and...uh...one <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp,</span> they used as a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Russian POW camp</span> and I...I...1 must say that...uh...the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> when we got in there was...was so...so dirty, feces all over and...uh...uh...from the Russians, you know, and...un...unbelievable.</sentence><sentence id="554">Unbelievable!</sentence><sentence id="555">And...uh...1 don't know what the reason was that the transport was back and forth, but...uh...all...all the bad things got to come to an end too, and one day they...uh...took us out to the appell <span class="NPIP">place</span> where they counted us, and...uh...well the Germans are very meticulous in that situation that they like to know how many people walk out, how many come back.</sentence><sentence id="556">And...uh...they...uh...started to take ...uh...people and...uh...started to...uh...take them and...uh...put them out...uh...into a separate <span class="REGION">area</span>.</sentence><sentence id="557">And...uh...here all of a sudden there was a rumor that the...uh..high ranking SS...uh...SS...uh...uh... man or Sturmbannfuhrer has a camp that he lives in that...uh...he wants...he needs people there.</sentence><sentence id="558">But what I forget to mention is that...which is also very, very important...that in that...in that...uh ...<span class="BUILDING">mill</span>...the...one...one evening, you know, we...we had a <span class="BUILDING">wash barrack</span> with 10 <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">faucets</span> to clean yourself so you can imagine we were about 1500 people in that <span class="BUILDING">building</span>.</sentence><sentence id="559">We had three tiers of...uh...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span> there that the...the constant threat of death was so imminent that one evening the...the guard had a...had a drinking party or what...came over the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and took...uh...15 people out and...uh...marched them out into the <span class="BUILDING">wash barrack</span>.</sentence><sentence id="560">And...uh...next morning we went into the <span class="BUILDING">wash barrack</span> and they were all laying dead there.</sentence><sentence id="561">And...uh...again I must say that news travels...although nowadays we have (chuckle) the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">computers</span> and radios and videos and all that, that...uh... they...they got drunk and they had a good time by drowning these peoples by putting a...uh...water hose into their mouth and turning on the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">water</span>.</sentence><sentence id="562">So these were the...the...uh..you know, that the...the constant...uh...dread of death and dying and the surroundings that you were...the environment that you were in has nothing but...but death.</sentence><sentence id="563">And then we had some younger childrens in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> that...uh...we tried to protect them from not working in the...uh...with the regular labors that they go there and do some odd work there...uh...that the children could do.</sentence><sentence id="564">Now to come back to that...uh...the transportation...to the transport to that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="565">We were singled out.</sentence><sentence id="566">I think there were about...uh...200 people, and I was among them and...uh...we...uh...went to that particular <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> at that...at that...not that SS...uh...colonel was in charge of and there was a <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> that...uh...we had to work in...and we had to take out the glass because from the air raids, the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>...the glass got shattered and...uh...it was hanging in and constantly falling on the workers.</sentence><sentence id="567">So we had to go up...you know.</sentence><sentence id="568">There was a big <span class="DLF">hole</span>, you know, with the glass roofs, you know, and the <span class="DLF">windows</span> were broken out and we had to go up there on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">scaffolds</span> and...uh...get the...get the <span class="DLF">roofs</span> out and plus...uh...there was all kinds of other works involved besides unloading the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad cars</span> because they are <span class="BUILDING">building</span></sentence><sentence id="570">4 a...uh...<span class="BUILDING">ammunition factory</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Essen</span>, from...uh....uh...<span class="REGION">West Germany</span>, and...uh...they needed...uh...needed the changeover procedures where we had a lot of cement to carry on our backs.</sentence><sentence id="571">We had <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">oxygen tanks</span> and...uh...the...uh...<span class="DLF">railroad</span>.</sentence><sentence id="572">The <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">German railroad car</span> was so much in demand, like gold.</sentence><sentence id="573">You could not...you could not keep that...that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad car</span> a minute longer than it was needed.</sentence><sentence id="574">So when there was no...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">locomotive</span> available, we...the...uh...inmates had to pull the...the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> out and we had to...uh... put the brakes on so to speak of the...is a hand brake on the...on <span class="BUILDING">cubby house</span> or whatever they call it.</sentence><sentence id="575">And I was in the...in one of these...uh...details and...uh...out of the...uh...<span class="DLF">ramp</span> where the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> was parked, there was a little <span class="DLF">hill</span> and a little <span class="DLF">incline</span> for a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad car</span> means a lot, you know.</sentence><sentence id="576">So the rascal I was...1 was a little bad, so I told the fellows working on it...I says when the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> starts to pick up speed, just take your hands off and let the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> down.</sentence><sentence id="577">So we all did that, and we knew that we gonna get punished for it, but I think I achieved a great deal with it because this <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad car</span> was about on a...on a...on a <span class="DLF">ramp</span> where the railroad...where the rails were linking it with the main... uh...rail going from one big <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span> to another and that's where the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> went after we let it go and...uh...it created a little bit of a havoc like a little accident by having a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">passenger train</span> running into in.</sentence><sentence id="578">That was one thing I did I...1 schemed something always up that...uh...would...[ would do or have it initiated to be done despite the fact that I knew that the punishment might be...uh...death.</sentence><sentence id="579">But that was one way of...for me of getting even with them.</sentence><sentence id="580">Uh...Coming back into the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>, we worked on a...uh...in...in a detail where..-uh...we were working with a machinist and...uh...we were holding the iron rail or something and, you know, by... There...there are certain things you can do while you work, an...uh...it could look accidental and that's what we did.</sentence><sentence id="581">Accidentally the rail dropped on the feet of a worker that they had to amputate his feet.</sentence><sentence id="582">Not that I was a big hero but I had some satisfaction.</sentence><sentence id="583">Then one day we go out to work and then all of a sudden at 10 o'clock come, be assembled and...on a certain <span class="REGION">area</span> there and we were led into a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad cars</span>, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">passenger cars</span>, and all of a sudden the rumor was that we are going to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="584">And we were not very far away from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, maybe...uh...by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> 6 hours, 7 hours.</sentence><sentence id="585">So sure enough, by the time it got dark we entered <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="586">But our lucky...our lucky...uh...thing was that we came from a high ranking SS general so they did not make any selections where they did in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, you know, to the right and to the left, and you know, to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span> or to work.</sentence><sentence id="587">But the entire <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> got into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> without going...uh...through a selection.</sentence><sentence id="588">So now we are in that famous <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> where we seen the ovens burning 24 hours.</sentence><sentence id="589">We see the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transports</span> arriving day- by-day, and we see what...what has to be...what...what...that...that is one step closer to death than...than we were before.</sentence><sentence id="592">5 And we got into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">working camp</span> alright and...uh...next morning, you know, 4 o'clock in the morning, 5 o'clock in the morning, you had to go out the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> and...uh...be counted again.</sentence><sentence id="593">And then we walked out of the...uh...out of the <span class="DLF">door</span> or the <span class="DLF">gates</span> I should say...uh...and a...uh...big orchestra played while we were marching out, you see.</sentence><sentence id="594">And...uh...we....uh...we came...we went to the...uh...to the...uh...uh...<span class="DLF">building site</span> and we were also again working for...uh...1.G. Farben.</sentence><sentence id="595">This is a big German industrial company.</sentence><sentence id="596">And...uh...we started again this...uh...uh...loading, unloading coal and...uh...cement and...uh...uh...the cement.</sentence><sentence id="597">The cement I forgot to mention it before that the paper of the cement...when they emptied it out, we used to grab it and put it around our body to keep warm in winter time, you know, because we didn't have any winter uniforms and in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> the...uh...temperatures is about 40 below zero and the snow is...uh...sky high there and especially if you don't have any snow clothes like you have today.</sentence><sentence id="598">And...uh...it...we...it became a very...uh... handy, you know.</sentence><sentence id="599">You don't know how...how a humanbeing can be so...so to...to create things to help himself.</sentence><sentence id="600">Is all that...uh...that you feel that things are...are dependable upon your life, that you...uh...that your life depends on it...that you wanta survive, and you...you grab any chance that you can to do it.</sentence><sentence id="601">And...uh...then we...uh...in...uh...in...uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, we were also... It was a very, very flexible camp.</sentence><sentence id="602">They had the...uh..<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">men's camp</span> and next to a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">woman's camp</span>, and then they have the sick bay...sick...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">sick bay camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="603">The <span class="INT_SPACE">sick bay</span> was right...the <span class="DLF">back door</span> from the <span class="INT_SPACE">bay</span>...from the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> was right to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">oven</span>.</sentence><sentence id="604">So you get in there and you not getting better, you go right in there.</sentence><sentence id="605">There was a rumor...I...I happen to be a little bit lucky and I got myself into a detail to work on shoes.</sentence><sentence id="606">To rip up the shoes" soles.</sentence><sentence id="607">Why did they do that besides...uh...collecting hair and besides collecting all kind of other materials?</sentence><sentence id="608">They found out that Jewish people, especially the ones from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> and <span class="COUNTRY">Holland</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Paris</span> and all, that the people put diamonds and...and gold into the shoes to have something for them to sustain themselves in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp.</span></sentence><sentence id="609">And naturally the people got killed and the shoes were left over, so every shoe got...uh... ripped apart.</sentence><sentence id="610">And we found diamonds in there, you know, but there were somebody watching you when you ripped the shoes apart that you...whatever you find, you turn it in.</sentence><sentence id="611">And...uh...L..uh...[ must say despite the fact that everything was so bad, I was... was a pretty lucky fellow like you will hear from now until later.</sentence><sentence id="612">I met...1 met a cousin of mine in that camp in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="613">And she had a little bit of a position, and she was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> a long time so she established herself already a little bit and...uh...after meeting her through a <span class="DLF">barbed wire</span>, she managed to...uh...get me some extra food which was a great deal.</sentence><sentence id="614">And...uh...she was a run...a runner.</sentence><sentence id="615">That was a runner.</sentence><sentence id="616">She was working for the <span class="BUILDING">camp office</span>, and if there had to be any mail...uh...put in between the <span class="DLF">mail box</span> from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp...</span>the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">German camp</span> and that camp or orders or whatever it was, she would take the mail and run over there and come back and so on and so forth.</sentence><sentence id="617">I mean there was no telephone connections like we have it today.</sentence><sentence id="618">But...uh... the... uh...I met her through...through the <span class="DLF">barbed wires</span>.</sentence><sentence id="621">6 And we were pretty close cousins because she used to be also with me in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village Chrzanow</span> and...uh..at the time when the all...uh...cleaning out of the Jews was, they escaped to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Krakow</span>.</sentence><sentence id="622">That's where she was, and that where she got in the camp and also be deported to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="623">Uh...Now in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> there was...uh...lot of things happened.</sentence><sentence id="624">There was the...uh...breakout from a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">commando</span>.</sentence><sentence id="625">People worked in the <span class="BUILDING">ammunition factory</span> and they smuggled ammunition into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="626">They...uh...escaped, but they were caught back later 2 days and...uh...they were executed.</sentence><sentence id="627">And...uh...uh...at that..now I am talking about already the...uh... going into the winter of 1944.</sentence><sentence id="628">And...uh...the snow was pretty deep there.</sentence><sentence id="629">The reason I mention that because we...we wore wooden shoes and the snow sticks to <span class="ENV_FEATURES">wood</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="630">So when you had the wooden...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">shoes</span>, you know, not only that couldn't you walk with them, but you also had in addition to carry the snow and try to scrap the snow off so you could walk.</sentence><sentence id="631">The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> itself was erected on a <span class="DLF">potato field</span> which was when it rains was nothing but...but the mud bath that you put your foot in the water puddles and, you know, you came out with...with a lot of mud on your feet, plus your ...your foot when into about 1 foot of water...uh...uh... <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">pails</span>.</sentence><sentence id="632">Not <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">pails</span>, but <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">puddle</span>.</sentence><sentence id="633">And...uh...but the...uh... word that the war has taken a turn and the Allied Forces are making advances started to take hold by seeing that the Germans are starting to liberate...not liberate, to...uh...dispose of these <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps and</span> sending the...uh... prisoners out to different camps located further into <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="634">Now we had in..in the camp Jewish doctors.</sentence><sentence id="635">They didn't have any medications or...or bandages so what you have, but they were Jewish doctors, but they make themselves now all of a sudden that the word was out that the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> are going to be liquidated and they're gonna got to a different <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>, they would not have the position of a physician...as a doctor like they had in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, and they would be forced to go out to work.</sentence><sentence id="636">So they manufactured that an epidemic broke out...uh...and...uh...due to the fact that we didn't have any...uh...razor blades or shaving cream and we shaved the best way we could.</sentence><sentence id="637">You...you used to have...uh...uh... rashes on your skin that...uh...looked... looked like an epidemic and they filled up the sick <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bays</span> in the sick <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="638">So some people got well and some didn't.</sentence><sentence id="639">And...uh...how my luck wanted to have to be it, I was transported to the <span class="INT_SPACE">sick bay</span> because I had the rash and...uh...1....uh...1 said to myself, "Well, you're in a mess now.</sentence><sentence id="640">How're you gonna get yourself out?"</sentence><sentence id="641">So I sent some messages to my cousin because she knew some people there...(cough)...that...uh...she wanted...uh...maybe she could...uh...get me out, but she sent...uh...sent me word back that there is nothing she could do about it, and I should see what else I can do.</sentence><sentence id="642">Well, I kept myself to myself.</sentence><sentence id="643">I didn't wash with any soap or with anything that was laying around, and...uh...after about a week a doctor came around and...and...uh...[ was already a long time in that <span class="INT_SPACE">sick bay</span> and...uh...they needed my...my <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="644">So...uh...he came around, he looked at me, and...uh...the stone was taken off my heart when he said...uh..., "Go get dressed.</sentence><sentence id="645">You go out."</sentence><sentence id="646">you know.</sentence><sentence id="647">So L..I... really I was reborn.</sentence><sentence id="650">7 That...that was the situation.</sentence><sentence id="651">So IL...uh...walked out of that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> like a...like a...like a practically newborn person because this was...this was the end.</sentence><sentence id="652">So I got back into the...to the....uh... <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">working camp</span> and I got back on...uh...on several details and...uh...1 managed to get myself onto a detail to work in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">woman's camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="653">And...uh...I didn't do any hard labor.</sentence><sentence id="654">And then on January 3rd, 1945, we...we heard all of a sudden guns shooting and...uh...from the Germans, you know, they said that the Russians are about 80 kilometers away from here.</sentence><sentence id="655">And then there came...as we were talking about that, there came a order the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> will be liquidated except the ones who attended the <span class="BUILDING">crematoriums</span>.</sentence><sentence id="656">So...uh..by the time they got us organized and..uh..we were in a.uh.in a marching...uh...group and I had...I with my friend we kept each other together, and they gave us, each of us, a whole loaf of bread, you see, and then they had the <span class="INT_SPACE">field kitchen</span> by with horses to join us, you know.</sentence><sentence id="657">And...uh...the...the ...uh..order of the day was that we are marching out to another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span> and...uh..we will remain there or we will be shipped out by <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> to another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="658">But if you cannot walk, the guards have instructions to shoot.</sentence><sentence id="659">So we started to walk and the three of us used to keep each other together with each other carrying a blanket and...uh...and...uh.. a loaf of bread and...uh...we seen that the people started to fall because it was winter.</sentence><sentence id="660">It was snow.</sentence><sentence id="661">And...uh...we seen that the counts started to thin out and we walked in...until daybreak.</sentence><sentence id="662">We were under...uh...exposure for the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Russian aircraft</span>.</sentence><sentence id="663">They dropped...uh...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Christmas trees</span>.</sentence><sentence id="664">By that I mean that they dropped...uh...uh...lighting bombs that spread out and lit up the whole <span class="REGION">area</span> and we were afraid that they would attack us because they might mistake us for troop movement, you know.</sentence><sentence id="665">But...uh...we mentioned...uh...we were told that they arranged...uh...to stay over the night in a...a <span class="BUILDING">barn</span> and we will continued to march the following day.</sentence><sentence id="666">So one of my friends said...uh..."Fred, this...this is it.</sentence><sentence id="667">I...1 don't care what happens.</sentence><sentence id="668">This is all I got.</sentence><sentence id="669">I am going to stay hide myself in the hay, and...uh...you do what you want."</sentence><sentence id="670">I said, "Don't be a fool."</sentence><sentence id="671">I said, "In the morning, they gonna light up, the whole thing gonna burn it up, and that's what's going to be."</sentence><sentence id="672">But as...uh...as history was, I met him after the war and he survived.</sentence><sentence id="673">He was liberated about 6 months before I was.</sentence><sentence id="674">So we came into another <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and the...uh...1 mean if you know how sardines are in a can, that's how we were when we laid down to sleep.</sentence><sentence id="675">And I said to myself, "Fred, you cannot go through that again.</sentence><sentence id="676">You are at the end of your strength, and you better see that you get shipped out here and as soon as possible."</sentence><sentence id="677">And sure enough the next morning, they assembled a...a....uh...a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="678">And, you know, they assembled the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> and, you know, you were...you were...uh...uh...you stood up and like the army, you know, in a column of 5, you know, and about 200 people or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="679">And then they came in, you know, you, you, you, you, you.</sentence><sentence id="680">Face right.</sentence><sentence id="681">Go over there, and go over there.</sentence><sentence id="682">Then you went to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad</span>, and you were transported out.</sentence><sentence id="683">So I managed myself to</sentence><sentence id="685">8 get out of the <span class="NPIP">place</span> where I was standing and get myself squeezed into that column that went for the transport.</sentence><sentence id="686">And I went on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="687">It was in an open <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad car</span> in the middle of winter.</sentence><sentence id="688">It was snowing, and it was cold because we had no...uh...no heat and we were squeezed together in...uh... in...uh...1 don't know how many people were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, but if you wanted to move, you couldn't move because you were really squeezed in.</sentence><sentence id="689">And...uh...the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> started to move.</sentence><sentence id="690">It only moved a couple of kilometers and then we stayed again and meanwhile people started to faint and started to die, which we threw them overboard out to have more <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad car</span>.</sentence><sentence id="691">And...uh...it turned out that we were about...we were on the famous...uh...air raid on <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.776443" long="9.179887">Stuttgart</span>.</sentence><sentence id="692">That is a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">industrial city</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, and they carpet bombed that whole <span class="REGION">area</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="693">And we were standing there and we felt the...the whole earth shaking but...uh...uh...you couldn't go nowheres because you had the guards with the machine gun there.</sentence><sentence id="694">And...uh...we....uh...sort of...uh...you know, we sort of wondered what is going to happen to us, you know.</sentence><sentence id="695">I mean if they bombed the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad</span> the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> can't move.</sentence><sentence id="696">They got to do something.</sentence><sentence id="697">There was no <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> nearby that they could take us out and then put us into that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="698">All these ideas started...uh...to come up, you know.</sentence><sentence id="699">You started to be a...uh...a general to lay out the...the... uh... the way the...the German army plans these things.</sentence><sentence id="700">Well after 12 days we finally arrived.</sentence><sentence id="701">We...at that time, we had plenty of <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span> because plenty of people died and we just...uh...threw them overboard and...uh...we opened our mouth when it was raining and when it was snowing.</sentence><sentence id="702">At one time, they gave us something to eat.</sentence><sentence id="703">They put us...don't know, some army post came out and give us some...some kind of bread.</sentence><sentence id="704">And we...but we were nothing but skin and bones, and...uh... we came into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="705">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span> the troops...the troops, the SS men, jumped off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, opened the <span class="DLF">door</span>, and shouted Out!</sentence><sentence id="706">Out!</sentence><sentence id="707">Out!</sentence><sentence id="708">Out!</sentence><sentence id="709">Out!</sentence><sentence id="710">Out!</sentence><sentence id="711">You know, you put yourself into...into the <span class="DLF">door</span> opening and you fell out.</sentence><sentence id="712">That's...that's about the size of it.</sentence><sentence id="713">And...uh...crossed the dead people in there and whatever, you know.</sentence><sentence id="714">So we got somehow off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and we got...marched into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="715">And we came into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span> and we were put into a...uh...uh... uh...there's a word for it that they keep you and...uh...and you get...that you get your strength back which...uh...we had 2 weeks time.</sentence><sentence id="716">You know, we were put in that special order, and we didn't have to go out to work and we were medically taken care of, and we...uh...sort of, you know, started to catch our breath.</sentence><sentence id="717">So we...uh...after... after 2 weeks after 2 weeks, we...uh...we were assembled again and...uh...we were loaded on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> and we were told...we were told that we are going into a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> which is an outside <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span> but we belonged to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>, but it's an outside camp.</sentence><sentence id="718">Now, we come...we come...we come there and it was at night, and we look...look for the...for the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, you know, but we couldn't see anything.</sentence><sentence id="719">We went into a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, you know, and...uh...we went into a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, and all of a sudden, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> stopped and we seen the <span class="DLF">barbed wires</span> around, and we knew that this must be a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="722">9 And...uh.. we showed...we embarked from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> and we were marched into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="723">And we were assembled and...uh...the camp inmates came out to see whose there, what's this, you know.</sentence><sentence id="724">And here I see a guy standing there and the guy looks familiar to me.</sentence><sentence id="725">So I couldn't do very much because I...1 was, you know, far away from...from the...the people, but I... started...I started to recognize my brother.</sentence><sentence id="726">So can you imagine it was 4 years after that I...I'm standing in front of my brother and L...after awhile they counted us and they..they gave out the blankets so...for...for the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, you know, and all that.</sentence><sentence id="727">And then, you know, I went over to my brother and he...he...he didn't recognize me, you know, because I...I was...I was weighted 80 pounds skin and bones.</sentence><sentence id="728">But that was my lucky...lucky point you know, because my brother was an old camp inmate there, and he was...uh...in the managing position.</sentence><sentence id="729">He was again a first aid...uh...person in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and...uh...he put me into a good <span class="DLF">block</span>, you know, into a...he seen that I that I have a easy work detail and he managed to give me his bread, you know.</sentence><sentence id="730">He shortchanged himself, and he gave me another portion of...uh...for the supper, you know.</sentence><sentence id="731">In order words, a brother what does he do for brothers.</sentence><sentence id="732">It's a...it's a natural thing you know.</sentence><sentence id="733">And...and that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> we were building a...a <span class="BUILDING">airplane factory</span>, and that <span class="BUILDING">airplane factory</span> was in the...in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>, you know, was concealed.</sentence><sentence id="734">And we are...we are sleeping ourselves into the...uh...into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span> and...uh... the...the <span class="DLF">roof</span> of the...of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was on the...on the bottom on the ground of the...of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">wood</span>.</sentence><sentence id="735">You know, in other words, they dug out a little groove, you know.</sentence><sentence id="736">L..I don't know, 6 feet by 12 feet, whatever it is, you know, and inside they made the little thing for...for a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunk</span>, you know, that you can sleep so you didn't need any...uh...<span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bunks</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="737">And they...uh...they...it was...it was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> that nobody could easily find, you know.</sentence><sentence id="738">And we worked in that <span class="BUILDING">airplane factory</span> and...uh...time...time seemed that they were normalizing themselves a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="739">And Thank God I felt a little better, and thanks to my brother.</sentence><sentence id="740">And...uh...about ...uh...4 months later or 3 months later or something like that, the American army started to advance towards...uh... <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bavaria</span>.</sentence><sentence id="741">That's where <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span> is...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="742">And...uh...they started...there was a rumor.</sentence><sentence id="743">At that time I think President Roosevelt died.</sentence><sentence id="744">And...uh...the Germans were talking about, "Now you Jews have nothing to hold you anymore.</sentence><sentence id="745">The...the President Roosevelt died, you know, and anyways it was a big factor in...uh...uh...<span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> history that Roosevelt died.</sentence><sentence id="746">The...the war is going to change in favor of...uh...<span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="747">But then all of a sudden we again...these...these things always...uh...uh...happen to come up all of a sudden, you know.</sentence><sentence id="748">There were rumors that they were going to...uh... liquidate <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.269612" long="11.468478">Dachau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="749">That they going to ship us out into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Alps</span>, and there they would...uh...put us on the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span> somewheres and...uh...just liquidate us and we will be just falling over into the deep <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span> and nobody would know.</sentence><sentence id="750">So, you know, there's any old saying that L...that I learned it that in the biggest lie, there's always a little bit of truth and sure enough about a week or 2 weeks later, the...we...we were assembled and we were</sentence><sentence id="752">0 marched out of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> into the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad cars</span>.</sentence><sentence id="753">And we were told that we are going into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Alps</span>.</sentence><sentence id="754">So my brother had a good friend that he was together for many years, and we kept ourselves again together and...uh...we....uh...we thought that we...we being shipped out and we were proceeding to the de-embarkation for...on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">railroad cars</span> and...uh...which we boarded, and we stood all day in that <span class="BUILDING">railroad station</span> and we didn't move one bit.</sentence><sentence id="755">So the talk was that the...uh...German railroad is...uh...on the verge of being liquidated by being bombed from the <span class="DLF">air</span> from the English and American air ... <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">airlines</span>...<span class="DLF">airlines</span>...the Air Force, and the...uh...they...uh...filled...they filled the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp,</span> and they get shortage on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">planes</span>, on <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> I mean.</sentence><sentence id="756">Well, we finally started to move, and we moved...uh...very little at the time.</sentence><sentence id="757">And but the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> advanced itself quite a bit in the last couple of hours and we were traveling through the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="758">And all of a sudden we were ambushed by...uh... <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">English fighter planes</span>.</sentence><sentence id="759">Now the guards which were on top of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, they started to fear for their lives and...uh... they jumped off the top and they stood under cover having the...the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> in front of them, you know.</sentence><sentence id="760">And I said to my brother and to the...the friend, I said, "Look, I don't care what you do.</sentence><sentence id="761">We want to be together, but let's make a decision."</sentence><sentence id="762">And we decided to jump the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> at the first occasion we get.</sentence><sentence id="763">That ambush subsided and the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> started to move, so in about another 3, 4 hours we were ambushed again, and the guard was off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="764">We had prepared ourselves by opening the <span class="DLF">window</span> where...in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, there's a little...uh...<span class="DLF">window</span>, 2 by 4, whatever it is, and it had one barbed wire across there.</sentence><sentence id="765">And we managed to...to break that...that <span class="DLF">wire</span> and the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> was moving and we were jumping out, one after the other.</sentence><sentence id="766">And...and...and that...and that is such a heroic act in my...in my opinion that we jumped out and nobody broke his bone or leg or whatever it is and we...we assembled together again, you know, and we were in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">woods</span>.</sentence><sentence id="767">Now, at that time the German army was in disarray already.</sentence><sentence id="768">And they marched...the army marched backward from the <span class="DLF">front line</span> and we marched forward towards the <span class="DLF">front line</span>.</sentence><sentence id="769">And this <span class="REGION">area</span> where...was infested with...uh...POWs, French POWs and English.</sentence><sentence id="770">And we runned into the German guards and they asked us, "Where we're going?</sentence><sentence id="771">What we're doing?</sentence><sentence id="772">And we...uh...told them that we are mute and we don't talk.</sentence><sentence id="773">We are dumb, deaf and mute, like they say.</sentence><sentence id="774">And...uh...nobody talked, you know, and we just made with our hands and blah, blah, blah.</sentence><sentence id="775">So, but we advanced.</sentence><sentence id="776">Once we...we stepped a soldier on...on his head.</sentence><sentence id="777">He was dug in...in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">ground</span> with an <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">anti-tank</span> ...uh...uh...unit, you know, and he was buried in...not buried, but he was in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">earth</span>, you know, with a...with a...with a gun or with a bomb, whatever he has...uh...for to blow up the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tanks</span> if they come across, and he...uh...and we stepped on...on his head, you know, and we got out of that, and then we walked into a <span class="BUILDING">farm house</span> that was...uh...uh...full of German soldiers that...that ...uh...liquidated... mean not liquidated, but quit the army ahead of time already.</sentence><sentence id="778">And...uh...we walked in and we seen the <span class="DLF">back door</span> open, and we ran out of there.</sentence><sentence id="779">I mean it was...it was just</sentence><sentence id="781">1 going into...into the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">fire</span>, out of the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">fire</span>.</sentence><sentence id="782">You didn't know exactly which way you...you walked and we prayed to God to guide us.</sentence><sentence id="783">And that was...uh...in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="784">And then we walked again and again and we came across a...a...uh...priest.</sentence><sentence id="785">And my brother speaks French.</sentence><sentence id="786">And...uh...he spoke in French with him, you know.</sentence><sentence id="787">Uh...He spoke a broken French, you know, and he asked...we asked him where could we go not...not to be in the middle of the scares, you know.</sentence><sentence id="788">He says...uh... "Go up that <span class="DLF">hill</span>.</sentence><sentence id="789">There's a farmer.</sentence><sentence id="790">I know him, and tell him that you would like to sleep the night over there, and he'll take care of them."</sentence><sentence id="791">Now we went up to that farmer, knocked on his <span class="DLF">door</span>, and his <span class="BUILDING">house</span> was full of German soldiers.</sentence><sentence id="792">So we spoke to him with a broken German, you know.</sentence><sentence id="793">We never let them know that we understand German and all that.</sentence><sentence id="794">And we are...he said, "Yes, you can go in my...uh...where I store the hay.</sentence><sentence id="795">You be safe there and, you know, stay there til the morning and see what happen, you know."</sentence><sentence id="796">So we walked into the...uh...into the...uh...what do you call it...the uh...where the...where the farmer stores his hay and corn and...uh...we couldn't sleep because there was a fighting going on between the American Army on the bottom and the Germany Army on the top and boop boop boop boop boop, you know.</sentence><sentence id="797">Constantly the...the artillery fire was going back, and they were shooting around the...the hay where, you know, where they had the <span class="BUILDING">barn</span>.</sentence><sentence id="798">So...uh..I said to my brother, you know, I said, "This is like a powder keg.</sentence><sentence id="799">You got the German soldiers sitting there.</sentence><sentence id="800">No matter what, if they have a chance, they kill us.</sentence><sentence id="801">If they went, they definitely kill us."</sentence><sentence id="802">So I said, "You know what?We...As soon as daybreak comes, we gonna open the <span class="DLF">door</span> and we gonna get out of here."</sentence><sentence id="803">So in the morning, however, the artillery fire subsided.</sentence><sentence id="804">So I said to my brother, "Now is the time to make the move."</sentence><sentence id="805">So the other friend said, "Well, Fred is right.</sentence><sentence id="806">We should...why should we sit here, be a sitting duck, you know?"</sentence><sentence id="807">We lived...we left the <span class="BUILDING">barn</span> and we continued to walk.</sentence><sentence id="808">And as we walked we seen white flags hanging out of the <span class="BUILDING">farm houses</span>, and we seen a farmer and we called him over and we spoke in fluent German.</sentence><sentence id="809">I said...we says, "What...what is this for?"</sentence><sentence id="810">He says, "Well, we gave up.</sentence><sentence id="811">We're not fighting anymore, you know.</sentence><sentence id="812">The Americans are down on the bottom of the <span class="DLF">hill</span> and blah blah blah.</sentence><sentence id="813">Anyways, so...we...uh...he says within 2 hours the Germans are going to be here...the army, and they probably going to surround...surrender.</sentence><sentence id="814">So they....uh...we...we took it as good news, and we asked him how...how do we get down to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">village</span>, and he told us.</sentence><sentence id="815">Well, we felt that we are the...the winners now.</sentence><sentence id="816">We have overlived the war.</sentence><sentence id="817">All we have to...to see now, the most treacherous minute, that we have to meet a American soldier, and not be shot by a German officer.</sentence><sentence id="818">And we seen a...a German officer shot to death in...in...in one of the...the...uh...the <span class="NPIP">places</span> there, so we walked over there and we took his gun and we took his gun and we walked toward the main <span class="DLF">street</span>.</sentence><sentence id="819">And we walked on the main <span class="DLF">street</span> with a gun and we killed a couple of German soldiers too because they were running around and they were making</sentence><sentence id="821">2 threatening...uh...uh...remarks, and this was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">war zone</span>.</sentence><sentence id="822">And we walked on the...on the <span class="DLF">highway</span> there, and all of a sudden, we...uh...we hear English speaking, "halt, stand up," you know, the German, I mean, the English soldiers, you know, with a Yankee accent there, you know.</sentence><sentence id="823">My brother was holding a gun and we were walking, you know, in a no-man's land, so...uh...the guy came up and searched us for guns which the one gun we have, we gave it to him, and we told him who we are. "</sentence><sentence id="824">Yal," the guy says, "What...are you trying to kid me?"</sentence><sentence id="825">There's no survivors."</sentence><sentence id="826">So...uh...we told him, you know, where...what <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> we came out from and where there are people yet still being hold, and so he went on his radio and he spoke to the commander what should he do with us.</sentence><sentence id="827">He says, "Well, you got to bring them in.</sentence><sentence id="828">We gotta interrogate them."</sentence><sentence id="829">You know.</sentence><sentence id="830">It was May the first..uh..that we have seen the first American soldier.</sentence><sentence id="831">And...uh...the...uh...soldier took us back to the...uh...to the...uh...lieutenant there and...uh...he started to interrogate us, and we gave him all the information what we knew and...uh...he directed the unit to..uh...to take that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp,</span> which...uh...after the report, it was abandoned already.</sentence><sentence id="832">There were no more soldiers there, but they had some...uh...prisoners...some people that were incarcerated there...sick people and so on and so forth.</sentence><sentence id="833">And that is my story besides that...uh...when the war was over, the...uh... I was in the...uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">displaced person camp</span> with my brother and my friend, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="47.950617" long="11.301876">Feldafing</span>.</sentence><sentence id="834">And..-uh...what I like to point out here, again how rumor spread in...in such way that it's unimaginable, you know, that we...we had news from people that my father is still alive in...he is in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Polish zone</span>, you know, that...uh...well, he's...uh...in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> that I was...I was first in and I left it.</sentence><sentence id="835">That he is in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> in that...in that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">city</span>, and he is sick but he's taken care of.</sentence><sentence id="836">And so we had...uh...we had established that...uh...1...I know that...uh...my father was alive and I forgot to mention that when I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> I met...uh... a guy who works in that...uh...unit in the..uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp,</span> you know, in the <span class="BUILDING">crematorium</span> that...uh...the day that they liquidated the Jews from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Chrzanow</span> that he...he knowed that my mother was there and he seen her being...uh... cast and burned.</sentence><sentence id="837">And...uh...so I know that my father's alive, but he's very sick, and...uh... and...uh...as time advanced and we got our strength back, I started...uh...to travel to look for my father.</sentence><sentence id="838">And I looked for him where I had the latest news that he's in... uh...that...uh...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> near...near that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp.</span></sentence><sentence id="839">And...uh...wild..wild...<span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.754284" long="16.264068">Waldenburg</span>.</sentence><sentence id="840">Yal.</sentence><sentence id="841">And...uh...I got there.</sentence><sentence id="842">I got the news that he was there and he heard that I'm alive and my brother's alive and that he left for <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>.</sentence><sentence id="843">So I didn't wanta go through an eventful trip to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, but I went back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span> where my brother and I lived and we took possession of an...of an <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and...uh...we started...I sent my brother to travel to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, and he got together with my father and...uh...we felt, you know, that...uh...the family should be together and....uh...we rented an <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span> and after we had the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>, he came over from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span> and we lived together til we got the permission to go to the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span>.</sentence><sentence id="844">That was in</sentence><sentence id="846">3 1940...46, but the seaman strike broke out and we...uh...were detained for 3 months and...uh...at that time, President Truman...uh...gave a quota of 20,000 DPs, displaced persons, to enter the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> and...uh...we registered and were lucky to come here, and we left..-uh...<span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> on January 3rd, in 1947.</sentence><sentence id="847">And...uh...we had a very hectic...uh...uh...trip because the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">sea</span> was...uh...very rough.</sentence><sentence id="848">We went out from...from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bremen Harbor</span>."</sentence><sentence id="849">It was in the afternoon, and the <span class="DLF">sky</span> was as dark as like 12 o'clock at night, but the Captain felt he should take the trip and the chance and he did it, and we wound up somewheres in the <span class="REGION">Canadian waters</span> with icicles all over the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ship</span> and broken the stern on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ship</span> and all that, but...uh...we luck...we landed happily and luckily in the <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> on January the 14th or something like that.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1174">Q: We have about 5 minutes left if there is anything else you would like to share.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1176">A: Well, I would like to share that...uh...thanks to the...to the...uh...Joint Distribution Committee who took the responsibility to...uh...take us over and pay for the voyage and...uh...put us up in a <span class="BUILDING">hotel</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Marseilles</span> on <span class="DLF">Broadway</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1177">That was the meeting place of all the Jewish refugees that came from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1178">And...uh...we were...uh...cared for by the...by the Joint, and looked after by the Joint, which was a great help.</sentence><sentence id="1179">And...uh...we...uh...they...after awhile, we were able to rent an <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and...uh...I found a job here, but...uh...it was hard to...to get used to work for 54 hours a week in...you know, and then go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and learn the language.</sentence><sentence id="1180">And it was a little tough at the beginning and...uh...but...uh...I think I got used to it and acclimatized myself and I became a citizen of this <span class="COUNTRY">country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1181">I..-uh...was a very nosy person.</sentence><sentence id="1182">At the time I came over here, there was a...a draft registration where I had my...to register myself for the draft.</sentence><sentence id="1183">And...uh...at that particular point L..there was an order issued that the...uh...people who coming over as displaced persons are excused from the...uh...Army to join the draft.</sentence><sentence id="1184">But some of the people I knew joined...volunteered to join the...the army and...uh...they...they got jobs in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, in the American uniform.</sentence><sentence id="1185">And...uh...[ was classified as 4F and I was nosey to find out what 4F is, so the draft board sent me a letter to come for another...uh...physical.</sentence><sentence id="1186">So I went for another physical, and I was accepted (laughter) in the army to send to <span class="COUNTRY">Korea</span>. (</sentence><sentence id="1187">laughter) So that's...that's about my...my story from my...during the war that I lived.</sentence><sentence id="1188">And I have that in my blood.</sentence><sentence id="1189">I have it in my future, and I am working towards educating people that what happens, that it shouldn't not be forgotten, that we cannot forgive for what was done, and we can sort of...uh...try...try to...to ease the pain a little by....uh...being...uh...accepting their apologies.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1204">Q: Thank you very much.</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1206">A: You're welcome.</sentence><sentence id="1207">I hope I did a good job. (</sentence><sentence id="1208">coughing)</sentence></p><p><sentence id="1209">> Also: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bremen</span> or <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bremerhafen</span>.</sentence></p><p></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1213">Q: You did beautifully.</sentence><sentence id="1214">Beautifully!</sentence></p></dialogue> |
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