Keskustelu:Shakin maailmanmestaruusottelu 1990

message: Ehdokasottelu-taulukon tähdet (*) pitäisi selventää jossain kohdassa tai viitteessä. Lab-oratory 2. heinäkuuta 2008 kello 14.44 (UTC)

message: I am originally not from the Finish WP, but I hope that a respond in English will be good enough most of those who care about the issue.
The argument concerns this contribution. The esteemed user KLS is obviously right that in 1990 the Soviet Union was still in existence. It is one of the most basic historical facts. The issue in question however concerns not the history of the Soviet Union in general, but rather a very specific topic of the World Championship match between Karpov and Kasparov in 1990. So it is much more sophisticated.
In the third volume of the Kasparov's book on his games with Karpov (here I am referring to the original Russian version of the book, whether other language versions exist and weather they also come in three volumes I do not know) he describes that after the pogrom of Armenians in Baku in January 1990 he refused to be associated with the Soviet Union any longer and selected to play under the old flag of the Russian Empire.
I want to underline that it should not be the question of passports of what country Kasparov and Karpov had in 1990. It is the question of what country or countries they represented. As a matter of fact, millions of people in post-Soviet states still had Soviet passports well in the 2000s. Kasparov unequivocally writes in his book (p. 91 of the aforementioned volume) that in 1990 he represented Russia. If you want, you could consider Russia a non-existent state in 1990, he did represent it anyway. In his book Kasparov writes that a small Russian flag was specially weaved by his mother for this match. I didn't find the photo of Kasparov from the NY part of the match where he indeed played with this little Russian flag on the table, but I did found a picture from the Lyon part of the match, where both players had plates with flags. You can clearly see that Karpov is playing under the Soviet flag and Kasparov under the Russian flag. So it should be in the article too.
I will be happy to provide the pages of the Kasparov's book should anybody still have any doubts. You are welcome to write me a personal message. — Jan van der Loos 29. toukokuuta 2013 kello 17.00 (EEST)
replies: text: According to the Finnish article and its source, Karpov protested and no flags were used. Are you sure that your picture is from the Lyon match? There is a 10-part documentary on the Lyon match on YouTube, and there the name plates and the background are different, and there are no flags (for example at 1:45). --Savir (keskustelu) 29. toukokuuta 2013 kello 17.20 (EEST)

text: I now removed the flags from the match table, because according to sources, no flags were used. But I returned the Soviet flags into the info box, because they represent the Soviet citizenship of the two participants. --Savir (keskustelu) 29. toukokuuta 2013 kello 18.06 (EEST)
replies: text: :It appears to be my mistake. The picture may well be from the NY part of the match. In his book about his games with Karpov Kasparov writes that at the press conference Karpov himself made a few jokes about Kasparov's decision, but said that for him the issue was immaterial. However, the head of Karpov's team delegation and a FIDE vice president Nikolai Krogius indeed uttered a protest. For the general public he repeated it later in a Communist newspaper (not a chess paper, as Kasparov is quick to point out) The Soviet Russia. The quotation in the source you gave seems to be from this article. The same article by Krogius is also quoted by Kasparov, but at a much greater length. In this article Krogius also writes that a compromise was reached: both flags were removed, but this plates that you can see on the picture were allowed instead (p. 92). It might be the case that they were removed not from the beginning, but after the first game, since this article were published after the first game.

text: :For the contentious issue this details are not of much importance however. What is important that Kasparov refused to play the match as a representative of the Soviets at the time, so we shouldn't put a Soviet flag below or near his name. As I already have indicated, we should not reduce this question to the question of what citizenship the players were. It is the question what country or countries they represented. An example has just come to my mind. At the 2005 Eurovision Song Contest Switzerland was represented by an Estonian group Vanilla Ninja. Although every single group member had a Estonian citizenship, you will not find an Estonian flag near the name of the group. Why? Because it represented Switzerland, not Estonia. By the same token we should not put the Soviet flag near Kasparov's name. He did not represent the Soviets any longer. Although his book was written two decades later, it probably was his position at the time as well, that in 1990 he represented Russia. — Jan van der Loos 29. toukokuuta 2013 kello 19.02 (EEST)
thread_title: Venäjä vs. Neuvostoliitto (Kasparov)