Talk:Survivor (American TV series)

message: Tallying the amount of Survivor episodes seems to be quite the challenge, and I thought we had it correct, but the press release for the latest renewal, it states, "After 27 seasons, 413 episodes and 406 castaways..." Also, the premiere episode of Blood vs. Water was supposedly the 400th episode. Should we simply update the episode count to reflect this? Drovethrughosts (talk) 23:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode count (again) 

message: Normally the images of contestants would be placed in a vertical stack to the right of the contestants chart, as they are on this article. However, they won't fit that way on these two articles due to the width of the charts, so I wanted to reposition them horizontally like this. However, I've encountered some opposition about it, so I wanted to see if anybody else had an opinion. What do you think of my idea? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 02:46, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no way to fix the problem on your screen then I suppose horizontally should be okay. I'm sure you're not the only one with this problem, although I do not see the same issues on my screen. Nobody has commented here, but if anyone has any opinions on the matter please feel free to offer suggestions. Gloss • talk 18:36, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rearranging contestant photos on ''[[Survivor: Cook Islands|Cook Islands]]'' and ''[[Survivor: South Pacific|South Pacific]]'' 

message: Is there a reason we put the contestants' tribe names in their infoboxes? It seems very trivial and irrelevant to their biography as a whole. I agree with putting their season(s) names in the infobox because it's usually what they are known for, but listing all of their tribes seems like something that should be left to the Survivor wikia... especially when the tribes are listed as "political movements." Gloss • talk 18:32, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely unneeded on bio infoboxes, as the average reader is going to have no idea what the tribe alliance means. Which versions of Survivor they appeared on, that's fine (and if they won), but that's about it to pull into the infobox. --MASEM (t) 18:37, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Take them all out per WP:NOR. It's confusing for readers new to the topic. More importantly, it is a misuse of the political party parameter. Binksternet (talk) 18:49, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad to see I'm not alone on this. I'll go ahead and remove them all - thanks for the input! Gloss • talk 18:51, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I'll help out. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 18:57, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survivor contestants and "Political movements" in their infoboxes 

message: Is it Hidden Immunity Idol or hidden immunity idol? Tribal Council or tribal council? And finally, Immunity/Reward Challenge or immunity/reward challenge? And why? Gloss • talk 19:02, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Pinging some regulars..     Gloss • talk 20:36, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally feel they should be lower case. --MASEM (t) 22:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm on the fence, but I lean towards that opinion as well. Gloss • talk 22:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

text: I believe that all these terms should be written in lower case, as within the context of the show, they are common — not proper — nouns.Jedzz (talk) 23:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they should all be written in lowercase except for Tribal Council. Tribal Council is a proper noun because it names a specific place. The others r fine in lowercase because "hidden immunity idol" and "immunity challenge" aren't proper names. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 17:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A place is a state or a country, things like that. Tribal council is as much of a place as house, building, food court... and we don't capitalize those as House, Building, and Food Court. Gloss • talk 20:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's a specific house (i.e. Hearst Castle, Buckingham Palace) or building (i.e. Space Needle, MGM Grand Las Vegas, Moscow Kremlin), then it would be capitalized. Tribal Council is the name of a specific structure, so it seems like a proper noun to me. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 04:54, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I see what you're saying. And after seeing how CBS uses the capitalization you're suggesting () I'll have to agree with you. Gloss • talk 12:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization 

message: I've noticed that there have been some drastic changes made by  on several pages, most notably the inclusion of the days on the Voting History tables and the decapitalization of "Voted out" in the Contestants and Season summary tables. I oppose both those changes; the day of elimination is already revealed on previous tables and is a confusing-looking addition. This choice is trivial and I'm not sure how that inclusion will make the table more complete or understandable. Regarding the decapitalization of "voted out," I see it as a title in that specific context and therefore it should be capitalized. If there are any major reasons for these changes to remain, I'm all eyes, but I believe they should be reverted. Apologies for the pings but I figure that since you three are quite prevalent on these pages, you should at least be alerted to this discussion:    - Katanin (talk) 05:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There's really no reason to capitalize "voted out" in my opinion. If I wrote the sentence, "Barack Obama was voted into office in 2008", I wouldn't capitalize the word "voted" because there's nothing about it that constitutes capitalization. I don't even know why this should be an issue. It's first grade English, guys! :) Survivorfan1995 (talk) 05:59, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: First off, I wouldn't say drastic. Let's not be too overdramatic please :) Thank you Survivorfan, that's a very good way to put it! The capitalization errors I've been fixing are all errors that comply with common English capitalization rules. In regards to the days I added to the voting history table... this game is measured in days. In the game of Survivor, you're "voted out 1st on day 3." They don't go by episodes and say "I was voted out 1st on episode 1." I'd argue that the episode number isn't even important for the voting history table, that only the day # is, but I can see reasons for including both. But in the "finish" column of the contestants table and season summary table, we list their finishes as "1st voted out.. Day 3" so it's only keeping things more consistent by adding the day's into the voting table as well. Gloss • talk 12:24, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the capitalization thing, but I still attest that it looks sloppy and the grammatical rules of capitalization do not adhere to titles. With the days on the voting table, I still don't understand why that information is relevant to the voting table. The game may be measured in days, but this is for the TV series based on the game and comes off as trivial in that area, not to mention visually confusing right below the number of the episode. These pages are supposed to be for easy information access for the barest essential whatever the needs of the viewers may be, and these additions have only made things more confusing and came out of the blue. - Katanin (talk) 15:23, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, can we please not be dramatic and claim that adding in the days has in any way made it "confusing"... come on. If the article is about the TV show and not the game.. then why don't we list "1st voted out Episode 1" in the contestants and season summary table? It should be consistent throughout the article. The articles are about the game and the season and everything that is involved with each individual season. And each season is measured by days, not episodes. I'm sorry everything confuses you so much, but the rows are clearly labeled with a header saying "Day #" and "Episode #" so there is no reason you should be so confused. Gloss • talk 17:44, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A solution to make this any "less confusing" would be to remove the episode number from the table... because I'm not particularly convinced that's too important. But the episode number when the contestant goes out seems to me very irrelevant to the voting history in a game with a slogan "39 days, 18 people, 1 survivor". Gloss • talk 17:51, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Voted out" decapitalization? Day numbers on tables? 

message: I've noticed that in the "Contestants" charts of Pearl Islands, Redemption Island, South Pacific, and Blood vs. Water , the contestants that were voted out and returned are listed more than once. Seems to me that everybody should only be listed once in this chart because it's supposed to be a list of contestants, not a voting history chart.         u guys got any thoughts? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 04:56, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a voting history chart, that is what the Voting History chart is.  It is, in addition to a list of contestants, a table that shows tribal affiliations and their standings in the game.  I oppose any removal of the subsequent listing of returning players as it will make tracking their movements throughout the game more difficult. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

text: It's a necessary evil of having those tables be also sortable. Without duplicating returning-to-game players, the sort would leave obvious problems (eg Lil in PI, removing her first voting-out would leave her "2nd player voted out" empty.) --MASEM (t) 05:03, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

text: I have to agree. If we remove the extra boxes then it'd be a little confusing with most of the placings not being included. My opinion doesn't matter but I say keep it. ~ Totaldramaman (talk · contribs) 22:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The players that returned to the game 

message: Just a suggestion, I understand from reading the article that Survivor calls each of its competitions a "season", however this isn't in accordance with general industry practice in US Television, where a "season" refers to a series of episodes during a yearly period (the start and end dates of that period may differ).  Therefore, someone who simply looks at the infobox and sees Survivor has been on for 28 seasons, might get the wrong impression and think the show began in the 1980s.  I would suggest that you list the seasons as 15, with a second entry showing their have been 28 competitions.Onel5969 (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Your suggestion is misguided, 28 seasons is correct as they're individual from each other. You can just look at the article itself or anything online about Survivor that the season count is correct. Here's an article with CBS stating it renewed for seasons 29 and 30. Side note, someone wouldn't get confused, because the premiere date is right in the infobox anyway. Drovethrughosts (talk) 22:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seasons 

message: It recently became a topic of discussion on whether or not DVD information should be allowed on TV show articles. It seems like the end result of that discussion was that it's up to preference and relevancy. What does everyone think of our inclusion of DVD info on Survivor pages? On one hand, it is information about the season. But on another hand, Wikipedia isn't for promotion of DVD sales and information. See  for more information. Gloss 17:10, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Giving this a little bump. Any opinions? Seems like this information is more on the unnecessary side of things. Gloss 06:14, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Home media information is acceptable (and encouraged) per MOS:TV (here). The link you're using is for List of episodes articles and that discussion referring to DVD info is regarding the inclusion of such information in series overview tables, not articles themselves. Regardless, neither discourages that DVD information isn't acceptable within the article. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:47, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, that might make a little more sense. Gloss 19:50, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD information 

message: Are we in agreement that the CBS polls don't belong in these articles? They've been added to about every contestant's article and every season's. Gloss</span> 21:14, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree they should not be included as they are simply user-generated polls, and unlike the Fan Favorite (which both has a prize associated with it and is usually part of the recap of the season by third party sources) is simply trivia. Huffington Post is not the most reliable of cites to use for saying that it is significant, as HuffPo will publish "anything". --MASEM (t) 21:16, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree. I'm about to step out and I'm not sure when I'll have the time so if either of you would like to remove the information from the seasons and contestants articles please do. Otherwise I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually. Gloss</span> 21:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. - Katanin (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If it doesn't belong on this page, I think it should at least stay on the contestants' and seasons' pages. It's just as noteworthy as other forms of reception, like the Hall of Fame. 169.231.57.80 (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: And these aren't just any "user-generated" polls - these are THE OFFICIAL polls held on CBS's website. These are the polls to end all polls as far as Survivor goes. If these aren't noteworthy, then NO reception outlet is noteworthy. 169.231.57.80 (talk) 21:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If the Xfinity Hall of Fame is considered official (and it's listed on some contestants' pages as well), then these have to be considered official as well. At least these were sanctioned by CBS, whereas the Hall of Fame isn't. 169.231.57.80 (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The only parts that I would consider keeping would be information such as "In the official CBS Watch issue commemorating the 15th anniversary of Survivor, Heroes vs. Villains was voted by viewers as the #1 greatest season of the series," or the top ten players of all time on the players' Wikipedia pages provided they already have them. Stuff like which contestants were the hottest, which contestants from the season made it in the top ten, or memorable moments are pure trivia. While HuffPo may not be the most reputable, it does have images from the actual magazine itself. But none of it is relevant on this article, so that should all be removed. And IP brings up a good point: if a CBS-sanctioned poll lists season or player x as the best of all time, why not include that over Dalton Ross' rankings, or the xfinity Hall of Fame? Based on present standards, I understand the reasons why some of the material should stay. - Katanin (talk) 22:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, Katanin. So are we in a general agreement here over a compromise? Remove the lists from the "Survivor" page, and remove all mentions of "Hottest Man/Woman," but leave "Greatest Season" and "Greatest Castaway" results on the respective pages of the seasons and contestants? Because I'm fine with that being the outcome. 169.231.57.80 (talk) 22:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree to those terms. What do you say,  and ? - Katanin (talk) 22:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  CBS polls 

message: "In an attempt to win a reward challenge on Survivor: Pearl Islands, contestant Jon Dalton conspired with his friend, Dan Fields, before the show even started, in what Probst has described as the greatest lie on Survivor to date. Fields told Dalton that his grandmother, Jean Cooke, had died, in order to win sympathy from his tribemates and subsequently win the reward. In reality, Cooke had not died, a fact that only emerged to his tribemates once the episode had aired. After the challenge, Dalton admitted in a confessional that his grandmother was alive and "probably watching Jerry Springer right now". When the show's producers learned of Cooke's alleged death, they called Dalton's family to offer their condolences, only to have Cooke herself answer the phone. On the "Pearl Islands" reunion show, Probst had a short interview with Cooke, who was indeed alive and well."
This isn't a controversy, it's game play. Lying is a reality television staple. It's common practice and expected.Cebr1979 (talk) 23:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy?  

message: Figuring out the exact number of episodes for the show is pretty tricky. However, after finding out that the season 27 premiere was the 400th episode (), I went ahead and counted all the episodes from there up the last aired episode and got 462. I went by this for counting the episodes. And clearly the reunion parts of the finale are counted as separate episodes as if they weren't, it would be much less than 400. If anyone has any problems with the change, please say it here. Thanks. Drovethrughosts (talk) 20:19, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers of episodes 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Guatemala's logo is a fan-made logo. All official Survivor: Guatemala merchandise and even the show refers to the season as Survivor: Guatemala - The Maya Empire, not Survivor Guatemala - The Mayan Empire. Here's a Yaxhá buff with the logo, the DVD from CBS and Amazon, Yaxhá's flag from Guatemala, Nakúm's flag (while blurry, clearly only has 4 letters between "The" and "Empire"), a recap on CBS's site referring to the season as Survivor: Guatemala - The Maya Empire, and the opening credits a few seconds in flash the logo of the season, clearly showing Survivor: Guatemala - The Maya Empire.Sinjoh2015 (talk) 12:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guatemala's Logo 

message: I've noticed on several seasons that an evacuation counts towards being voted out. Eg Survivor: One World has Kourtney evacuated (thus eliminated first) followed by Nina who is labeled as 2nd voted out but as Nina was the first person eliminated by vote she would be the first person voted out. Why is the former the precedent? 135.196.1.74 (talk) 09:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voted out definition 

message: Pinging , ,  (and others)
Let's discuss the new tables that Realitycomp is introducing rather than edit war over them. The tables in question are from this edit: .
These table mimic those used in "skill-based" elimination-driven reality TV like Project Runway (season 10) or Top Chef (season 14), but in those shows, with limited exception, everyone performs as an individual and multiple people are clearly on the potential cut in front of judges. It also works well for The Amazing Race 31 where there is actual placements for each team per episode. Whereas Survivor remains relatively unique that half the game is tribe-based before switching off to individual, and the idea of people being "safe" or not is rather fluid particularly given all the hidden immunity idols and other tools in the last few seasons. I'm not saying this table can't work, but it might be overly complex given that we have the voting history at the bottom of each page which also nearly duplicates that information.  
I have no other opinion in the matter outside of avoiding editing warring.
I would recommend Realitycomp not to add their tables until a consensus is made. --Masem (t) 21:38, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I don’t think they are necessary to the game. I agree with the above statement that those tables work for skill-based competition shows and while I like them and they look aesthetically great I don’t think they have a place for Survivor Wikipedia. The voting history already outlines who wins and receives votes. Credit to realitycomp for the idea and effort but maybe here isn’t the place for viewing. Sorry. 😉 Survivorwonderland (talk) 00:55, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

text: These are redundant to the Voting History tables and add no additional information. They should be removed. Reywas92Talk 07:31, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newly introduced "season progress" tables 

message: I added resources that twenty previous winners would be returning for the fortieth season, called Survivor: Winners at War. Since that article has been deleted, can you please remove those links? I would love to, but I'm currently preoccupied and there are some season pages I don't like to visit.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.56.240.95 (talk) 23:21, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survivor: Winners at War links 

message: There is a proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Survivor task force#Jury vote tables to list the vote totals in the same order as the names in the finalist row immediately above the vote totals. All interested editors are invited to join that discussion.  Since the Survivor task force appears to be inactive, I'm notifying Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Reality television task force and the talk pages for each Survivor season in order to reach interested editors. Schazjmd (talk) 16:27, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survivor jury vote table discussion 

message: I'm thinking about replacing most or all of season logos with available DVD covers in season articles, like Survivor: Borneo, especially for more context. --George Ho (talk) 03:14, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you give a link to an image for comparison? Gonnym (talk) 09:49, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  one DVD release and another of the same season. I may lean toward the one with contestants' faces. --George Ho (talk) 17:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  The DVD images are a great idea as they include the logo but also some of notable contestants, which makes the seasons much more identifiable. Drovethrughosts (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

text: Except for Survivor 41 and Survivor 42, I replaced most stand-alone logos with DVD covers. I'm still awaiting the public release of Survivor 41 in April this year. George Ho (talk) 11:00, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I really believe that for this, it should revert back to being the logos.  The DVD covers spoil the winners and I think it would be good to protect the fans from that, and also the logos also represent the season perfectly. Sdp20 (talk) 01:27, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SPOILERS we do not hide spoilers at all. --Masem (t) 01:38, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD covers 

message: I'm very concerned about the notabilities of winners and runners-up of the series, like Richard Hatch (Survivor contestant)... and others names I must look up first. I'm unconvinced, if not uncertain or unsure, that appearing in at least one season of Survivor is sufficient proof of notability. I thought about creating the List of Survivor (American TV series) finalists, similar to List of The Great British Bake Off finalists. --George Ho (talk) 23:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe the first few seasons they gained notablility for coverage beyond their win, but I would suspecte t most winners should NOT be presumed notable. --Masem (t) 23:31, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Created Draft:List of Survivor (American TV series) finalists (season 1–20). George Ho (talk) 09:26, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notabilities of winners and runners-up 

message: If removing ! and scope="row" violates MOS:ACCESS, then how else do I de-bold non-winning contestants' names in contestant/tribe tables? I see no need to bold the names unless, per MOS:BOLD or MOS:NOBOLD, there are special reasons to do so, like a $1 million winner. George Ho (talk) 05:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I would leave them as is. MOS:BOLD says that table headers are boldfaced, and the contestants’ names are the row headers. Bgsu98 (talk) 05:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: How about adding plainrowheaders for class? I can further bold every "Sole Survivor" or color a row about a "Sole Survivor". By the way, The Great British Bake Off season pages don't use scope=row for row headers AFAIK. Would that be an accessibility issue? George Ho (talk) 05:54, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, all Wikipedia tables are expected to conform to MOS:ACCESS, and that includes scoped column and row headers. See MOS:DTAB for more information about tables. Bgsu98 (talk) 11:17, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  To de-bold or not de-bold (contestants' names) 

message: Two have already been deleted, and there are several more up for deletion, including Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Crowley (Survivor contestant) (Crowley is the oldest person to win Survivor). Randy Kryn (talk) 04:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's one which is on its 3rd nomination, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natalie White (3rd nomination). I'd think that this page would have been notified as a courtesy, no? Randy Kryn (talk) 04:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Another, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Westman (2nd nomination). Randy Kryn (talk) 04:53, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Is everyone here aware that Chris Daugherty's page has already been removed at an AfD which only two (2) people participated in. Talk about a tribal council! Randy Kryn (talk) 04:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Shouldn't this talk page be notified of attempts to AfD articles of ''Survivor'' winners?

message: Maryanne Oketch has been nominated for deletion. Your input there is welcome. George Ho (talk) 10:30, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Maryanne Oketch]] nominated for deletion 

message: Here's another in case readers of this page have an interest. Collins won the Cambodia season and appeared in two other Survivor series. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Collins]]

message: Link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tyson Apostol (2nd nomination). George Ho (talk) 04:48, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tyson Apostol]] re-nominated for deletion