Talk:Britain/Archive 1

message: Since the article as it stands is essentially a repetition of other articles, how about this compromise proposal: make it a simple disambiguation page. Article would read:
 
The term Britain has different meanings in different contexts
* As shorthand for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: this is the most common usage and it is to this that the nationality British refers (except when referrring to the British Isles).
* As an abbreviation of Great Britain.
* See also British Isles (terminology)
Comments? --Red King 22:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Compromise proposal: a simple disambiguation page

message: Apropos to the discussions below, why does this page still exist? Britain has always been a short form of Great Britain. The sole purpose seems to be to claim that the UK is the same as Britain, which goes entirely against Wikipedia's aim to be accurate. Just to confirm, the Oxford English Dictionary defines Britain thus: 
'The proper name of the whole island containing England, Wales, and Scotland, with their dependencies; more fully called Great Britain.'
  
:Note that this has been edited, the OED's definition continues: "now also used for the British state or empire as a whole". Mucky Duck 09:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that sounds like being selective to the point of being purposefully misleading. john k 12:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to Redirect: [[Britain]] to [[Great Britain]]

message: #Agree El Gringo 11:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Agree:

message: #Disagree.  Regardless of perceptions of accuracy, "Britain" is used to refer to the UK far more often than it is as a reference to the island of Great Britain.  The redirect should be to United Kingdom, or the content changed to a disambiguation page to give visitors the choice.  After all, they know which of the two they were looking for; we don't - although I think it far more likely that most visitors would be thinking of the UK, not the island. Waggers 14:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disagree:

message: It seems to me we have too many overlapping articles on Britain etc.  I am trying to make sense of these.  In keeping with the consensus reached above, I would like to focus this page more specifically on the WORD Britain.  Therefore I have added more etymology of this word, including Brittany since it is one etymological complex, and deleted some points on distinctions with other terms (Anglo etc) which are better discussed at British Isles (terminology).  --Doric Loon 09:54, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a note about the Olympics, the team which competes is Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The UK's  the IOC country code is GBR (technically our TLD should be .gb, but in a break from the rules we use .uk. The "United Kingdom" is not used, I think, in any International sporting event, the UK Nations usually compete individually, for example the Commonwealth Games and the World Cup. It should be noted that some Northern Irish athletes choose to compete for the Republic of Ireland, See 2004 Olympics for more. Keith 16:10, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Focus

message: I assume, from reading this section of the article, that the etymology based on Brutus of Troy is now utterly discredited? If so, this should be stated explicitly. Robertbyrne 16:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: These eponymous etymologies of nations were discredited 400 years ago at least, though as late as the 18th century Louis XIV had a historian executed for doubting the derivation of France from Francus, I seem to remember.  This is typical mediaeval etymology, but interesting as historical trivia, and does belong in the article for that reason.   --Doric Loon 23:55, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brutus of Troy 

message: Mercator produced CORNWALL & WALES ("Cornewallia & Wallia") in 1564: 
Sebastian Munster produced maps depicting Cornwall as a distinct region of Britain in 1538, 1540, and 1550. 
George Lily produced a map showing Cornubia in 1556.
Girolamo Ruscelli did the same in 1561 portraying Cornubia alongside Anglia, Wallia and Scotia.
Johannes Honter followed this trend in 1561.
Humphrey Lhuyd and Abraham Ortelius produced Angliae Regni Florentissimi Nova Descripto in 1573, this showed Cornwall and Wales as distinct regions of England, however Cornwall was not portrayed as an English county. This map was re used in 1595 at about the same time that Norden produced the map of the Duchy (not county) of Cornwall.
From about 1600 things change the Mare Brittanica and the Celtic sea become the English Channel and Bristol/St Georges Channel respectively. At this time Cornwall also seems to become an English county. Why, there is no record of an act of union or annexation of Cornwall?
Bretagne 44 16:00, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cornubia

message: There is a discussion about merging United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland into United Kingdom. If you would like to contribute, please do so at: Talk:United_Kingdom.
Regards Bobblewik 13:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A merge to reduce the permutations of articles 

message: I added gr8b.com to the site but was told I needed to create a discussion.  GR8B is a Great British Discussion Forum with talk relating to Great Britain so I think it deserves a place on the site.  I run the site myself and it's a non-profit organisation: www.gr8b.com (Not created it as a link)
:Standard rule all over wikipedia is that we don't have links to forums/fora. --Red King 20:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GR8B 

message: It seems clear from this talk page, as well as other sources, that the "correctness" or otherwise of referring to the UK as Britain is a matter of opinion.  Because of NPOV, any indication of whether or not this reference is correct should not be included as it would not represent a neutral point of view. Waggers 11:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a matter of opinion that Britain is the short form of Great Britain. No part of Ireland is in Britain, and that is why the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' was invented. By the precise same logic which is being used here we should say on the England page that it is also an informal term for Great Britain, as it is throughout the world. What's sauce for the goose.... 193.1.172.138 12:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg to differ.  Britain is also short for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - there's nothing "incorrect" about that.  Since the word "England" doesn't appear in the formal name of the country, there is a distinct difference between those two cases. Waggers 14:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could we consider using a different word to note that the usage is technically incorrect but often used?  Would anyone be unhappy with the word "Colloquially"? 193.35.248.8 15:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Waggers and 193.35.248.8.   It seems that one use of the word 'incorrect' remained in the article.  The article claimed 'Briton' (meaning person of British nationality or residence) is incorrect, but didn't give a source for that claim, so I removed it. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK: "Incorrectly..." 

message: "The earliest reference to a collocation with a word meaning 'large' is in the writings of the Greek geographer Ptolemy, who called the larger island Megale Brettania (Great Britain), and the smaller island Micra Bretannia (Little Britain)." (Britain#Great_Britain)
I do not understand that which island in the Isles is Mirca Bretannia. Is it the island of Ireland? --yes0song 11:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be the Isle of Man, Atlantis or Hy Brasil.  The ancient Greeks were (what was at at the time) a phenomenal distance away and knew as much about these islands as we do today about Mars, maybe less since it was all multiple hearsay.  But do you have a source for that? --Red King 23:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There may be a problem.  I just looked up the English translation of Geographia (Ptolemy) (it's online) and I found there the island names translated as Albion and Hibernia.  That sentence about Megale Brettania should be removed if it is not sourced. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is ''Micra Bretannia''?