Talk:Ottoman Turkish

message: Gef was never really used. And unlike in now a days in Persian and Urdu where gaf is considered a distinct letter gef wasn't (except perhaps at the very very end for a very brief period) considered a seperate letter. All proper lughats (dictionaries) of Ottaman treat "gef" and "sagir nun" as variants of kef that can be diffrentiated by adding an extra stroke and the three dots, but need not be, and really weren't that often.  Unlike pey, chey, and zhey none of these letters were considered extra letters of the alphabet, they were just variations on kef. To accurately portray Ottoman in most contexts it would be wise to simply use a kef. Ahassan05 03:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gef is unecessary 

message: Would anyone be interested in working on a Wikipedia in this language?  I'm interested in the Ottoman Empire, but I don't know the "Reformed" Turkish, much less Ottoman.  I want to see a Wikipedia in the Turkish variant that has a rich history for centuries before Atatürk.  There is however a fairly large list of users who know this language. (:Category:User ota)  I will contact them and ask them what they think.--Fox Mccloud 20:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia in Ottoman Turkish 

message: Hey guys,
it's a bit offtopic, but I hope you can help me. There is an urban legend in Hungary about the etymology of a word: Lófasz.  That's pretty rude, it means horse's dick. The legend - which may be true - says that it comes from an old Turkish word, Lofat, which was a torturing device back in the 15th-16th century. It's a long stake or pole used for impalement. See picture here. As the picture shows there was such a device, but I have no sources if it was called lofat. Could you please tell me if that or a very similar word existed in the middle ages?
Thank you! Regards --Hu Totya 23:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I can say that the word most probably isn't Turkish. Linguistically, it doesn't seem to be derived from a Turkish root and doesn't make sense to me as a native Turkish speaker who can also understand a fair amount of the Ottoman language. This leaves the option that it might be borrowed and used by the Ottomans as a loanword from another language, and I suspect Romanian because this method of torture is -without exception- always remembered with the name of Vlad III the Impaler in Turkish medieval history books. You can try contacting User:Saposcat, who has a professional interest in the Ottoman language, or User:OttomanReference, who is knowledgeable in Ottoman history and seems to have access to good literature. Örvendek! Atilim Gunes Baydin 00:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, I'll write to them. - Hu Totya 10:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the earlier reply that lofat is not a word of Turkic origins, although it may well have been used in Ottoman Turkish. As an extreme generalisation, words beginning with the letter l in Turkish are usually of Arabic origin (and this word having three consonants l, f, t makes it look very Arabic). That being said, no similar Arabic word appears in my Ottoman dictionary. A possible connection might be the word Lofça, which is the name of the Polish city Łowicz but also means "very large nail"! In German, it is known as Lowitsch, which would be pronounced rather similar to the Hungarian I believe. Good luck! Xemxi 12:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow, thank you, that's great! I guess you meant the Bulgarian town Lovech, it's name is :tr:Lofça in Turkish. As it means "very large nail" it really looks like a connection. Thank you! - Hu Totya 15:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: My dictionary gives exactly "Łowicz (in Poland)" for Lofça. Perhaps Lovech and Łowicz share the name Lofça in Turkish. Either way, you are welcome! Xemxi 18:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lofat 

message: many argue that the title ottoman language is quite wrong since historically no language has been addressed by a dynasty.  famous Turkish historian ilber ortaylı proposes the name "historical Turkish"
by the way treating it as a different language then modern turkish is another mistake.  language is determined by grammar not vocabulary or alphabet. and grammatically it is Turkish and that s it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.175.32.133 (talk) 09:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The possible alternative title "The variant of the Turkish language that was in use as the administrative and literary language register during the Ottoman Empire" may be more correct, but has the disadvantage that, as an article title, it is a bit on the long side. The Wikipedia naming conventions policy, in particular Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), requires that we use the most common name, which the preceding is not. Actually, just "Ottoman Turkish" is perhaps more common, but also ambiguous. However, just interpret "Ottoman Turkish language" as "the Ottoman variant of the Turkish language", and all is well.  --Lambiam 22:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to disagree with the first poster on whether or not modern Turkish is a different language. Ottoman Turkish and Modern Turkish, while similar, are in fact grammatically quite different. If we were to accept the two as being the same, then Azeri (which is much closer to modern-day Turkish - in fact, they're mutually intelligible, unlike Ottoman Turkish which is the equivalent of reading the Canterbury Tales) would also have to be classed as the same language. "Historical Turkish" is just semantic play - of course the Ottoman dialect was a historical predecessor. But do bear in mind that non-Ottoman dialects of Turkish existed at the time which might also fall under the category of "Historical." 128.36.135.193 (talk) 20:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  the title 

message: I don't know enough about the subject to be of help, but this sentence seems contradictory to me, "Historically speaking, Ottoman Turkish is not the predecessor of modern Turkish, but rather the standard Turkish of today is essentially Yeni Osmanlı Türkçesi as written in the Latin alphabet and with an abundance of neologisms added."  The second part of the sentence suggests to me that Ottoman Turkish is indeed the predecessor of modern Turkish.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.199.220 (talk) 03:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-contradictory sentence 

message: The article makes it seem like all Arabic borrowings to Ottoman were through Persian language. This is not true, especially not for the later centuries. Ottoman contained more Arabic words than Persian. An important information that is missing in the article is both Arabic and Persian words were often used in ways neither Arabs nor Persians used both in meaning, pronounciation and by way of neologisms. 193.202.18.2 (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Persianate? No.

message: The Info Box lists this language as Extinct.  I fully admit that I am not an expert in this matter, and for that reason will not edit the article, but reading this confused me and therefore I am asking those that know more, is this correct.  Is Ottoman Turkish Extinct or is it a Dead Language.  The Wikipedia article on extinct language  contains these quotes:  
An extinct language is a language which no longer has any speakers. Extinct languages may be contrasted with dead languages: no longer spoken as a main language.  ....Alternatively, a language is said to be extinct if, although it is known to have been spoken by people in the past, modern scholarship cannot reconstruct it to the point that it is possible to write in it or translate into it with confidence (say, a simple dialogue or a short tale written in a modern language); whereas a language is referred to as dead, but not extinct, if it is sufficiently known at present to permit such routine use, even though it has no modern speakers.
Accoring to the article, Ottoman Turkish continues to be taught not only inside Turkey but in other areas as well.  Therefore, it seems to me that it is a Dead Language but not an extinct language.  However, as I said above, this is not my field so I will gladly defer to those who know more. Franklin Moore 15:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinction???? 

message: What's the point of a section about educational opportunities in Ottoman if all it says is, "There are too many opportunities for education in Ottoman to list here"? That's not terribly useful, is it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.240.138 (talk) 03:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on educational opportunities? 

message: "Symthe" should be "Smythe".
Nikevich (talk) 09:20, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor typo in Ref. 3 

message: I guess (!) that "A correct Ottoman variant of gef will have the "mini-kaf" of ﻙ and the doubled upper stroke of گ. This feature is surely rare in current fonts." is wrong, because gef does not
occur in final position in Ottoman words.
Please, confirm my guess -- and remove the note -- or tell me that I'm wrong. --Xdr56tfc (talk) 19:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  proper shape of gef = note1 

message: Cf. WP:COMMONNAME: GoogleBooks Ngram Viewer comparison Takabeg (talk) 08:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming

message: Osmanlıca was spelled عثمانلوجه not عثمانلیجه as I have seen in J.W. Redhouses Grammar of the Ottoman language, so I changed it. Iı was often spelled with Waw eg. in the -malı/-meli suffix and the word "altın". Einstein92 (talk) 23:56, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong spelling of Osmanlıca

message: http://www.fransevi.com/
A Turkish and English Lexicon: Shewing in English the Significations of the Turkish Terms, Volume 1
https://books.google.com/books?id=zDhbAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
An English and Turkish Dictionary, in Two Parts, English and Turkish, and Turkish and English In which the Turkish Words are Represented in the Oriental Character as Well as Their Correct Pronunciation and Accentuation Shewn in English Letters on the Plan... By J.W. Redhouse: Part 2. Turkish and English, Volume 2
https://books.google.com/books?id=W0-TxGTHUUwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Redhouse's Turkish Dictionary: In Two Parts, English and Turkish, and Turkish and English
https://books.google.com/books?id=qXhMAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Türkische Grammatik
https://books.google.com/books?id=LJZFAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=tuerkische+grammatik&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL7b-l74LKAhXI7iYKHcLwCxEQ6AEIPTAF#v=onepage&q=tuerkische%20grammatik&f=false
Hizâ Kitâb sarf turki By Artin Hindoglu
http://books.google.com/books?id=cZNFAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Vocabulaire Turk-Français des principaux termes de géographie et des mots qui entrent le plus fréquemment dans la composition des noms de lieu: Présenté a la section de géographie de l'Association française pour l'avancement des sciences au Congrès de Rouen, le 20 aout 1883 By Théodore Parmentier
http://books.google.com/books?id=_dksAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026883003
https://archive.org/details/ottomanturkishc00hagogoog
https://archive.org/details/ottomanturkishco00hago
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026883391
https://archive.org/details/lexiconenglishtu00redhrich
https://archive.org/details/simplifiedgramma00redhuoft
https://archive.org/details/literatureofturk00welluoft
https://archive.org/details/turkishinterpret00boyduoft
https://archive.org/details/grammarofturkish00davirich
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/downloads/An_English_and_Turkish_dictionary.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/downloads/ottoman_grammar.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/downloads/ottoman_grammar_key.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/downloads/ottoman%20grammar.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/downloads/key%20ottoman%20grammar.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/downloads/readingbookoftur00bark.pdf
https://archive.org/details/readingbookoftur00bark
Gramatik der osmanisch-türkischen Sprache (1917)
https://archive.org/details/gramatikderosman00weiluoft
Einführung in die türkische Sprache und Schrift (1916)
https://archive.org/details/einfhrungindie00hort
Wegweiser zum Verständnis der türkischen Sprache: Eine Deutsch-türkische ... (1853)
https://archive.org/details/wegweiserzumver00wickgoog
https://archive.org/details/qavaiditurkiturk00mahbuoft
https://archive.org/details/KamusiTurki
https://archive.org/details/kitabturjumantur00ibnmuoft
https://archive.org/details/kamusirmrmcadant00pana
https://archive.org/details/resimlikamusifra0001se
https://archive.org/details/kamusifiransavid00emseuoft
https://archive.org/details/dulturk&tab=collection
https://archive.org/details/dulturk?&sort=-downloads&page=3
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ottoman_Turkish_Version_of_%E2%80%9CSindb%C4%81d-n%C4%81mah%E2%80%9D_WDL9212.pdf
File:Ottoman Turkish Version of “Sindbād-nāmah” WDL9212.pdf
http://arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/downloads/1910.pdf
http://www.arabsforchrist.org/osmanlica/john.html
Šejx Sulejman Efendi's čagataj-osmanisches wörterbuch: Verkürzte und mit deutscher übersetzung ... (1902)
https://archive.org/details/ejxsulejmanefen00effogoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=ShADAAAAMAAJ&oe=UTF-8
Alt-osmanische Sprachstudien. Mit einem azerbaizanischen Texte als Appendix (1901)
https://archive.org/details/altosmanischespr00vmuoft
20:46, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman Turkish grammars and dictionaries 

message: Hello, The scripts need to be Arabic and Persian. Ottoman culture was heavily influenced by Persian culture, and the written form of Ottoman Turkish used Arabic letters in the Persian style of calligraphy. Where does Armenian come from? Looks like a mistake. -Yozer1 (talk) 06:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scripts: Armenian 

message: There are courses of Ottoman nowadays.
What is the intended purpose?
Are they for students of philology and history?
Nostalgics of the empire?
Are they useful for law practice, supposing some Ottoman laws are in vigor?
Do the places that keep some Ottoman legislation (Civil law in Israel comes to mind) require the services of Ottoman language experts?
--Error (talk) 17:41, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Today 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity. 
Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word) 
I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks! 
Bookku (talk) 03:21, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word) 

message: Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well. 
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku (talk) 03:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting small help  

message: Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well. 
There are few references are available, indicating Aurats (word)  had considerable origins from medieval era Classical Arabic , medieval era Persian and Ottoman Turkish too and more references are likely to be available if searched deep enough.
Inputs and references regarding historical usage and present usage ,if any, socio-political construct around Aurats (word) are requested. 
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku (talk) 06:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting some help  

message: Hello all. In the section where 4 loanwords are given, with their turkish equivalents, it is stated that 2 loanwords are from persian, and two from arabic. However, only one is from persian “شهر” and the rest are arabic. Here are the words: 
واجب vâcib	
hardship	مشكل
city	شهر şehir	 
province	ولایت vilâye
war	حرب harb 216.181.132.21 (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loanwards and their replacements 

message: — Assignment last updated by Stinky Gremlin (talk) 01:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: History of Socialism