Talk:List of current members of the British Privy Council

message: So.  I guess we need to update this.  The Privy Council website now publishes minutes of Privy Council meetings, including the names of all the members added.  Not sure how we can track deaths.  Ideas?  Morwen - Talk 15:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Would it be better to create a category to list members of the Privy Council? For example, I just noticed someone has updated David Cameron with the style The Right Honourable. If they had been able to add his to a category, he'd have appeared here too. --JRawle 15:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Categories wouldn't be able to give the year information, and can't contain redlinks.  Morwen - Talk 16:18, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Updating this list

message: I think it would be useful to divide the list into sections based on what role the people on it play - this can be in addition to the alphabetical list, or not - I've not yet removed anyone from the alphabetical list.  I've given it a start, listing privy councillors who are a) government ministers; b) judges (I'm sure I've missed some - I only listed the Lord Chief Justice, the Master of the Rolls, the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, and the Senators of the College of Justice in Scotland); c) members of the Scottish or Welsh governments; and d) current opposition frontbenchers.  But I would imagine more can be done on this front.  Former government ministers could be categorized as such, as could former judges.  What do people think? john k 04:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specializing 

message: This needs updating to reflect the changes to the cabinet made on May 5 2006
--Manwithcoffee 20:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs updating 

message: May I note that everyone on this list is entitled to the style "The Rt Hon" (or The Rt. Hon. or whatever, there is no standard Wikipedia-wide agreement on which continent's punctuation to use), as that comes with being on the Privy Council. So.. either the style needs to be added to everyone or eliminated from everyone. Any ideas? TysK 03:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the highest British title should be used, so Lords should be "Lord x", MPs "The Rt Hon", Religious leader "The Right Reverend" (or it's abreviation) etc.  What is definitely incorrect is "The Lord (Name - x) of (Place - y)".  It can be "Lord X of Y," or "Lord X, The (nth) Lord of Y."  Either way this article needs a large cleanup.  I'm unaware of the specific Wiki policies on this. The18thDoctor 00:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're a little confused about how British styles work. Most (but not all) of the peers on this list are life peers, meaning their proper style is "The Rt. Hon. The Lord/Baroness X" or "The Rt. Hon. The Lord/Baroness X of Y." "Lord/Lady X" or "Lord/Lady X of Y" is how they are normally referred to outside of formal situations. "Lord X, The (nth) Lord of Y" doesn't work for two reasons: one, life peers don't use disambiguating numerals, since they don't have heirs; and two, even without the numeral, this form is never used. Jeffrey Archer, Baron Archer of Weston-super-Mare is never called "Lord Archer, The Lord of Weston-super-Mare"; that would be completely incorrect. The standard form, at least on Wikipedia, is the title of his article. Same goes for hereditary peers, though with a numeral included. My only point was that "The Rt. Hon." either should or shouldn't be listed before every name on this list. "The Rt. Hon." is automatically goes to anyone on the Privy Council, but it automatically goes to peers as well. For clarity's sake, though, I feel we ought to always include or always leave it out. The following is copied from Wikipedia:WikiProject Peerage and helps clarify what to do with the peers on the list (note that it actually uses this article as an example).
Peers should appear in lists either in the form used in the article title (substituting a different peerage if appropriate for the time period in question) or by their correct style (see Forms of Address in the United Kingdom). Usual practice is to use the full form for historical lists (e.g. lists of incumbents of a particular office) and the correct style for contemporary lists (e.g. lists of current Privy Counsellors or members of the House of Lords), but usage is by no means consistent, and the form considered most appropriate for a particular list should be used (more graphical lists tend to use the correct style for aesthetic reasons).
Hope this helps!TysK 06:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of titles such as The Rt Hon 

message: The full list of members is available on the Privy Council website. Some fake names are being added to the list. Names should not be added unless they are on this list too. JRawle (Talk) 23:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official list 

message: Should individuals listed as a judge or cabinet member also be on the alphabetical list? There does not appear to be a consistent rule. -Rrius (talk) 06:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and made sure the alphabetical list is up to date. I'll take care of the Cabinet list, but I'm going to wait until I've seen the final list, which should come out today, 4 October. If someone else wants to do it, by all means, but remember not to add anyone not yet sworn of council. -Rrius (talk) 09:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specific lists 

message: I don't understand the need for the lists at the top of the page of ministers, judges, and bishops. These people are listed in other places and their inclusion here adds nothing. For the most part, those lists include "Rt Hon." or "PC" (as the case may be). The alphabetical list is hard enough to keep up with, but keeping track of changes in those jobs doesn't make sense as this is not the natural place for people to go for that information. An explanation at the top of the page as to who gets appointed would probably do more to show how the Council is relevant than does a list that easily falls out of date. For instance, when I updated the ministers after the recent reshuffle, I found changes hadn't been noted (or only the new person added, but the old person not removed). Therefore, I propose deleting the lists. -Rrius (talk) 07:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Copied from my talk page: Unless anyone objects, just delete them - they're a mess, and as you say, there's no reason for them to be there. -- 92.12.59.194 (talk) 15:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists by job 

message: Currently, Scottish judges are listed as "Senator of the Court of Session", but that is not exactly the role giving rise to the appointment. Rather it is appointment to the Inner House of that court that leads to being sworn of Council. Doing this is the rough equivalent of listing Lords Justices of Appeal as "Judge of the Senior Courts of England and Wales".
The difficulty comes because of the fact that most Senators of the Court of Session are part of the Outer House first, meaning that the date we list for appointment to the Privy Council doesn't match up with the date for holding office. That doesn't seem right when we can provide the proper date.
I would prefer that we refer to them as something like "Lord of Session, Inner House". Aside from solving the problem I referred to, it would keep the line item fairly short (certainly shorter than "Senator of the College of Justice, Inner House", which would invariably drop to a new line). Perhaps as importantly, it would give readers a clue about them being called "Lord X" and "Lady X". Those familiar with this article will know that this sometimes leads to confusion both in terms of adding Senators and renaming the link text to read "The Lord" or "The Baroness" because people mistake them for peers.
Individual	Individual          	Sworn           	Role(s)/Reasons
          	Lady Paton QC MA LLB	10 October 2007 	Senator of the College of Justice (2000—)
          	                    	                	
          	Lady Paton QC MA LLB	10 October 2007 	Lord of Session, Inner House (2007—)
          	                    	                	
          	Sir Nicholas Patten 	17 November 2009	Lord Justice of Appeal (2009—)
I hope people will support the change. -Rrius (talk) 05:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "Senator of the Court of Session, Inner House" doesn't break to a second line, so that would work, too. -Rrius (talk) 05:48, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish Judges 

message: Leigh Raymont's page and the Privy Council seem to prioritise appointment over oath. I suggest we comb back through and use appointment date for those appointed from October 2001 to present. With very few exceptions, dates for those appointed before October 2001 already refer to appointment. Alternatively, we could simply add the dates for those appointed and sworn. -Rrius (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New project 

message: On a point of pedantry, the Royal Patent of Queen's Counsel is extinguished when one is appointed to the High Court bench. Thus, no High Court judge, Lord Justice of Appeal or Lord of Appeal in Ordinary (or, now, Supreme Court Justice) should have 'QC' after their name.  Lord Judge, among others, needs to be amended.
FH (barrister)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.10.146 (talk) 12:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judges and QC suffix 

message: He does not appear on the Privy Council website. Apart from that, the list appears up to date - I had to remove one dead Privy Councillor (Sir Gordon Bisson)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.22.232.109 (talk) 02:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Mekere Morauta 

message: Comrades! In this edit I removed most (or all?) of the piped links in the list on the basis that obscuring counsellors' names is unhelpful. Certain honorifics (Sir/Dame and life peerages {on those biographies which do not include them in their titles because they aren't common usage}) have since been reinstated. It's my contention that these additions contribute no further information than the unfettered article titles and may also fall foul of Wikipedia:Honorifics. What do we think? DBD 20:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Following my similar bold edits to this article, to British government frontbench and to Official Opposition frontbench which un-pipe such that the reader is presented with the destination biography's title, and strip away unnecessary honorifics (while presenting the necessary information in other ways),  has reverted the first and second of these, offering no explanation (not that she necessarily has must do so.) As such I'd like to discuss among as many interested editors as possible how and which policies might (not) apply and how we ought to go forward. DBD 19:55, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Hmm, I dunno... Doesn't "included in the initial reference and infobox heading for the person" (Wikipedia:Honorifics) read a lot like the intended subject is individual biographical articles? Might one problem with "these people are almost always known by their titles" (Rcb1, above) be that the common name at which their biographical article lies in accordance with our own policies might suggest otherwise? Does Sir/Dame before someone's name tell our readers anything useful in these contexts at all? They might show that someone had served as a senior politician, but that much is already obvious from their list of posts (in the PC list) or their very inclusion (in the frontbench list). DBD 23:08, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Hello, many thanks for your comment. When revising the Shadow Frontbench, there were many different formats by which honorific titles were being expressed, so I chose the one I thought most useful. What matters most from an academic point of view, is that the information is presented in a consistent way throughout the article. The inclusion of both name and title is helpful, as these individuals are known by both (as indeed they are on the government/party websites). Also, to know which area of the UK they are associated with is extremely useful in understanding the fast changing current political situation (London/North/South/Scotland, etc), without having to look up each individual. So I stand by my edit.Isotto (talk) 08:30, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Ok, I can swallow Sir/Dame if it's common use for that person; what do we think about 'MP' — removed from this page as being fairly obvious from roles and from frontbench pages in favour of the dark-green cell, and about PC membership, removed from frontbench pages in favour of the grey-pink cell? DBD 13:22, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honorifics 

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message: On the desktop, when you hover over Diane Abbotts name, the photo is of a gorilla. I am unable to rectify this but please can someone fix it. It’s awful 213.205.240.99 (talk) 11:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist contributor