Talk:LSD/Archive 3

message: This is found in the Modern Distribution section, does it seem a wee bit misplaced to anybody else?
"In April, 2007, Canadian psychologist Andrew Feldmar was permanently barred from entering the United States[57]after a border patrol agent used the internet to uncover a 2001 paper by Feldmar, Entheogens and Psychotherapy, which admits to therapeutic LSD use during the 1960s.[58] However, this has nothing to do with modern distribution."  68.100.79.249 14:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern Distribution

message: The following statement is no longer valid and was not valid when the article was made neither: "LSD is, by mass, one of the most potent drugs yet discovered. Dosages of LSD are measured in micrograms (µg), or millionths of a gram. By comparison, dosages of almost all other drugs, both recreational and medical, are measured in milligrams (mg), or thousandths of a gram." Apart from not having a source or citation, there are now drugs with far more potency than LSD, namely: 
:* Fentanyl which is 1000 times more potent than morphine, a pain killer administrated by a patch at 12 µg/h (micrograms per hour) with a fatal dose of 300µg in an intolerant opioid user. Fentanyl in extremely low doses mixed with other substances is often sold as street heroin due to its potency. Activating dose starting at 10µg in humans.
:* Etorphine which is 3000 times more potent than morphine. Although a pain killer, due to its potency, it is typically used to tranquilize and sedate large mammals such as elephants and rhinos. One drop on a human skin is enough to kill. Activating dose starting at 3.5µg in humans.
:* Carfentanil which is 10,000 times more potent than morphine is also another pain killer with activity starting in humans at 1µg/h making it the most potent drug. Although a pain killer, due to its potency, it is typically used to tranquilize and sedate large mammals such as elephants and rhinos. 1/3 of drop on a human skin is enough to kill. Activating dose starting at 1µg in humans.
:* Etonitazene
LSD activating dose starts at 50µg in humans. Making Carfentanil 50 times more potent than LSD in activating dose comparison. Fentanyl is 5 times more potent than LSD.
Fentanyl was discovered in the 1950's, and its usage in the streets recreationally became apparent in the 1970's. Etorphine was discovered in the 1960's. So it could be argued LSD was one of the most potent drugs for a period of time until the discovery of Fentanyl in the 1950's. Out of the above only Fentanyl is used in humans to treat pain.
There are many more which you are free to find your selves, but I thought I'll add the ones that are morphine related, specially fentanyl which is a typical heroin substitute to keep within the "drug" category e.g. LSD, heroin, morphine, cocaine and so on. So please either remove the sentence "LSD is, by mass, one of the most potent drugs yet discovered....." or rephrase it. And its worth to note there are medicine's far more potent than the LSD, one being the frog poison derived pain killer (which by the way rots/deprives the nerves from staying moist with long term use). So there we go, a medicine and a recreational drug more potent than LSD. --87.194.3.52 00:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Micrograms and Potency

message: Apparently, featured article status has been removed. The comments are on Wikipedia:Featured article review/LSD/archive1. I propose that uncited information be marked with the  template even if you can't find a citation off hand.Sjeng 04:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured article status

message: This article hasn't got enough info on how LSD is produced. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Right Honourable (talk • contribs) 06:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Production

message: Regarding this excerpt from the main Wikipedia LSD article:
:"Studies in the 1950s that used LSD to treat alcoholism professed a 50% success rate, higher than one estimate of a 5% success rate for Alcoholics Anonymous. [citation needed]"
A book I came across, The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs, states:
:"At Hollywood Hospital in British Columbia more than 500 alcoholics and other patients were treated with psychedelic drugs, usually one high dose of LSD or mescaline after 2 to 4 weeks of preparation. About 50% of the alcoholics, many who had failed in AA, recovered and were sober a year later."
Citation is given as the following in the bibliography (the following is quoted verbatim):
:Maclean, J.R.; Macdonald, D.C.; Ogden, F.; Wilby, E., "LSD-25 and mescaline as therapeutic adjuvants." In: Abramson, H., Ed., The Use of LSD in Psychotherapy and Alcoholism, Bobbs-Merrill: New York, 1967, pp. 407-426. In the same work, see also Ditman, K.S.; Bailey, J.J., "Evaluating LSD as a psychotherapeutic agent," pp.74-80; and Hoffer, A., "A program for the treatment of alcoholism: LSD, malvaria, and nicotinic acid," pp. 353-402.
The book also cites another interesting fact (the following is quoted verbatim):
:Dispropyltryptamine (DPT) has also been employed in the treatment of alcoholics: Grof, S.; Soskin, R.A.; Richards, W.A.; Kurland, A.A., "DPT as an adjunct in psychotherapy of alcoholics," International Pharmacopsychiatry, 1973, 8, pp. 104-115.
This is all from The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs:
:Perrine, Daniel M. The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs. Washington, DC: American Chemical Society, 1996. 263.
I believe this should be enough to replace the "Citation needed" with the correct information, above. I have cited it and added a References section to the end of the article. I believe I have used the correct format, but if I have not, please change it so it is correct. Feel free to discuss.
--Muugokszhiion 20:14, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the success rate of LSD treatment is the only one given in the study. A citation may still be needed for the AA success rate, but not for LSD treatment (since we have it). The next step is finding a reliable quotation of the success rate of Alcoholics Anonymous (hopefully from a source other than AA...). I've changed the location of the reference tag to help make this more clear. --Muugokszhiion 01:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "50% success rate" citation 

message: can we switch the locations of the chemical structure and the lsd stamp pictures? i feel this is more in line with all the other articles about chemical compounds and would have helped me more when i'm browing through different chemicals for similarities.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HiS oWn (talk • contribs) 21:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. —Viriditas | Talk 04:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: chemical structure

message: I have heard that LSD is often "cut" with strychnine (or other chemicals). I didn't see it mentioned in the article. I wonder if it's true, and if so could this be added by someone with knowledge on the subject.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.137.57 (talk • contribs)  24 April 2006
Another Urban legend, as the person below me put it, it would be almost impossible. But as happened in philadelphia last year where the heroin dealers killed 14 people in order to convince the dope community that there was a new kind that even the toughest addicts would over dose.This is even more evidence against strychnine since the LSD community doesnt typically have "fiends".
Mr.Merrel December 12, 06 5:00
::Why would anyone add a poison to a drug? It is not in the interest of a dealer to kill his customer. Some information on the strychnine myth can be found here and also here. --Muugokszhiion 06:11, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does seem odd, I've heard of strychnine been cut with drugs, I thought that was a reference to another drug like cocaine though. raptor 00:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "LSD contaminated with strychnine" is a standard urban legend. However, it's entirely nonsense for the reasons given. LSD is ridiculously potent; it's active at dosages that only other neurotransmitter-like psychoactives are. (For instance, melatonin is active in sub-milligram dosages.) --FOo 02:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Strychnine

message: First of all, Harmil, Comparing LSD in any way to a drug as corrupting and diabolical as methanmphetamine is pointless.
I like how you used the words "Associated with psychotic episodes." It is in fact uncommonly associated with psychotic episodes.
LSD may cause some "psychotic episodes" if taken in too large a dosage. And that does depends on set and setting, like the article said. Even then, the effects are temporary.
My personal conclusion on LSD is that, yes "bad trips" may permanently traumatize the user but that's like taking a prisoner out of his cell saying "good moring" then sending him back in the cell. The people who ended up killing themselves (all 4 LSD-related cases over the past 30 years) are in cases of people who already had demonstrated suicidal tendencies before using LSD.
And comments to the people saying "but black market drugs often have impurities"...
Well sure many times if you buy weed or coke from someone it may be laced, wether with LSD, PCP, THC, or XTC depends but how many cases have you heard, of LSD laced with PCP? Not one of the people who sell LSD are selling it to make money ($5/hit? cheapest drug that isn't free!), they are selling it to share the experience, and to expand the LSD sub-culture, which is nearly extinct anyways.
                               by: "Mortis Avery" USA 1:37pm Oct. 19, 2006
:5 dollars a hit is no longer the standard market price for LSD. LSD is adulterated frequently. I have citations of field testing for this. 70.114.242.136 19:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very Important Pro-LSD Message 

message: A caption from the article underneath the picture of some blotter paper: 
"A typical full size sheet of LSD blotter paper is 900 1/4" squares." 
I believe this should be changed to read "A typical full size page of LSD..."
A "sheet" on the street refers to a specific amount: ten strips of ten hits each (usually arranged in a square), or 100 1/4" squares. Multiple sheets constitute a page.
Furthermore, size of a hit can vary.. some hits are as small as 1/8" square.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.213.203.234 (talk • contribs)  11 April 2006
Marked disagreement: the sheet you see in the picture (the yellow brick road) may appear to be 15x15, but each square breaks down into four smaller hits; here are indeed 900 hits on a typical sheet.
:I believe that was the original anonymous poster was arguing is not that the image shown didn't contain 900 hits, but that the image shown was of a page, rather than a sheet. Different users, dealers, and chemists may use the same word differently. I believe the word "page" always refers to 900 hits (or some similar equivalent), but "sheet" can refer to either an entire page, or 1/9th of a page (100 hits). Further confusing things, a "book" may be a page separated into 9 (100-hit) sheets layered with something non-absorbent (900 hits), or it may be a collection of 9 or 10 pages layered in the same way. --Falcotron 22:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Term misuse?

message: Added an image from a 1966 MacLean's magazine, from Canada, in a section that coincides/follows the articles discussion of LSD's therapeutic uses. Thought it was an interesting example, and amusing as well.
Delete it if it compromises the quality of the article, but I think it's interesting and serves as a good example.
However, I am wondering about this image's copyright?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordangordanier (talk • contribs)  22 April 2006
:yess indeed but im a person who really knows about this situtation since ive had some friends that are in rehab for that unfortunately lsd took one of my friends life its a really hazardous drug.
:—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.190.100.113 (talk • contribs)  8 May 2006
::I'm also a person who really knows about this situation, because I have had a friend (really, it wasn't me) who dropped three tabs he bought from the Russian mafia, sat in a park and read Thomas Pynchon's V.  He says it made perfect sense. . . .  Anville 15:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Having tried LSD twice, I believe that one cannot truly understand the drug, unless they have experienced it.  In the hands of the wrong person, any drug can be bad news (this is how most drugs became illegal in the first place; misuse by individuals of less than stellar common sense).  But anyone who follows the 'rules' so-to-speak, will generally come back from an LSD trip with a better understanding of themself or the world around them. -67.84.176.234 22:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LSDTherapeutic

message: And hope to not have it screwed up. Sorry if I did, since I'm pretty new to editing Wikipedia, but figured that the Age link, added at the very end of the media section adds value to the article. Feel free to remove or email me at bin at coda dot ch. CaptainZapp 18:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Added a link

message: What kind of drug is this? stimulant? depressant? opiate? hallucinogen? so confused IThink4u 02:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The psychoactive drug page should help you with that.  LSD is legally classified as a hallucinogen, although that term is too broad for the specific actions of LSD.  Hence the term psychedelic.  LSD also tends to have stimulant properties (for example, most people cannot sleep or some even relax while under its effects).  --Thoric 21:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ?

message: I just removed the following from the physical effects section.  Can anyone make heads or tails of it?
:Obscure [2006]. Seventeen seated United States senators are implanted with an invasive 'radiation based' neuroprosthetic technology - electrode[s] on the hypothalamus and microscopic wire in the dura or on the inner surface of the skull, which is capable of monitoring and stimulating neural impulse from remote locations [a hardware interface reassembling the feedback in a useable data product on a 'realtime' basis]. LSD is used to mitigate the long term negative effect of the radiation on the brain, though as age and exposure profiles are not uniform some disparity in consumption is anticipated.
-GTBacchus(talk) 23:02, May 24, 2006
Then this:  -GTBacchus(talk) 23:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, my.  Anville 16:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted paragraph 

message: I think the subsection "effects - pharmacological" should be renamed to "effects - pharmacodynamical", because it handles only the molecular interactions, and not the pharmacokinetics.  Secondly, as these molecular actions are the mechanisms that cause all the effects ("physical", "psychological", "sensory"...), I think that this subsection should be the first in the Effects section, BEFORE describing the consequences of the molecular interactions (following a logic order).
I will change this unless anyone has arguments against this proposition.--Dr. Friendly 12:04, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This sounds like a good idea.  Anville 15:05, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe I've taken care of this.  Anville 18:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  pharmacological section 

message: The list of "common names" seems to be suspiciously large: 
"LSD is sold under a wide variety of street names including Acid, 'Cid, Sid, A, Animal, Barrels, Bartman, Bart Simpson, Battery Acid, Beast, Big D, Black Acid, Black Star, Black Sunshine, Black Tabs, Blotter, Blotter Acid, Blotter Cube, Blue Acid, Blue Barrels, Blue Chairs, Blue Cheers, Blue Heaven, Blue Microdot, Blue Mist, Blue Moons, Blue Star, Blue Vials, Brown Bombers, Brown Dots, California Sunshine, Cap, Chief, Chocolate Chips, Coffee, Conductor, Contact Lens, Crackers, Crystal Tea, Cubes, Cupcakes, D, Deeda, Domes, Dots, Double Dome, Doses, Electric Kool-Aid, Fields, Flash, Flat Blues, Gelatin Chips, Ghost, Golden Dragon, Goofy's, Grape Parfait, Green Double Domes, Green Single Domes, Green Wedge, Grey Shields, Hats, Hawaiian Sunshine, Hawk, Haze, Headlights, Heavenly Blue, Hits, Instant Zen, L, LBJ, Lason Sa Daga, Lens, Lime Acid, Liquid, Liquid A, Loony Toons, Lucy, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Lysergide, Mellow Yellow, Mickey's, Microdots, Mighty Quinn, Mind Detergent, One Way, Optical Illusions, Orange Barrels, Orange Cubes, Orange Haze, Orange Micro, Orange Wedges, Owsley, Owsley's acid, Pane, Paper, Paper Acid, Peace, Peace Tablets, Pearly Gates, Pellets, Pink Blotters, Pink Owsley, Pink Panther, Pink Robots, Pink Wedge, Pink Witches, Potato, Pure Love, Purple Barrels, Purple Flats, Purple Haze, Purple Hearts, Purple Ozoline, Recycle, Royal Blues, Russian Sickles, Sacrament, Sandoz, Smears, Snowmen, Squirrel, Strawberries, Strawberry Fields, Sugar, Sugar Cubes, Sugar Lumps, Sunshine, Tabs, Tail Lights, Ticket, Trips, Twenty-Five, Vodka Acid, Wedding bells, Wedges, White Dust, White Lightning, White Owsley's, Window Glass, Windowpane, Yellow, Yellow Dimples, Yellow Sunshine, Zen, and Zig Zag Man, as well as names that reflect the designs on the sheets of blotter paper." <BR><BR>Only a few of these names are supported by the citation: Honig, David. Frequently Asked Questions via Erowid.  (Those few names are: "Acid, 'Cid, Sid, Bart Simpsons, Barrels, Tabs, Blotter, Heavenly blue, "L", Liquid, Liquid A, Lucy in the sky with diamonds, Microdots, Mind detergent, Orange cubes, Orange micro, Owsley, Hits, Paper acid, Sacrament, Sandoz, Sugar, Sugar lumps, Sunshine, Tabs, Ticket, Twenty-five, Wedding bells, Windowpane, etc.")  It seems to me that the rest of the common names are superfluous at best, unless they can be verified properly.  At the very least, then, additional citations are required here. Wowbobwow12 17:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one objected, I've gone ahead and deleted the uncited names. Wowbobwow12 02:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I, for one, think having that many names in the article is just totally uncalled for. Thanks for solving that problem.--Ddhix 2002 05:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe many of those names come from law enforcement lists which tend to be overly extensive, and contain a lot of cross contamination from other drugs.  BTW, I have heard/read the term "trips" used far more frequently than "wedding bells".  There's a huge difference between a name used to describe a specific series of blotter, and the slang terminology used to refer to the drug itself.  --Thoric 22:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note on Names 

message: This is a fantastic article of featured article quality and status, but has the time come to split this article up and expand it into more detailed sub-articles?  The current size of this article (56K) is well over the proposed 32K article size limit.  I could easily see the History, Effects and possibly even Production sections expanded into separate articles of their own, and this article containing a summary of those articles.  The alcohol and cannabis articles certain span over quite a number related sub-articles.  The LSD article certainly shares the same potential.  --Thoric 22:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to expand this article into multiple articles? 

message: Hello,
I think this article needs two new sections: first, a discussion of "bad trips", and second, a bit on neurochemistry, insofar as it's known. Anyone qualified to give it a whirl? Graft 14:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two sections 

message: The sentence Anecdotal reports indicate that administration of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) or similar typical antipsychotic tranquilizers will not end an LSD trip, but rather will just immobilize and numb the patient. comes out of no where. It should be preceded by something along the lines of Standard medical treatment to reverse the effects of LSD is {dose} of chlorpromazine (Thorazine). Can some one find a source that states this? This paragraph should be cited.  --Cornlad 14:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But the evidence claims that Thorazine doesn't end the trip.  So why would the sentence be changed to something that states otherwise? -67.84.176.234 21:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversing the effects 

message: Sorry all, but there is so much (good) information in this article that is simply anecdotal without being cited. Wikipedia is not a place for original compositions. Maybe the test of time has meant that enough people agree with this info to not delete it, but people who read this will accept it as the truth. See verifiability --Cornlad 14:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While there may indeed be alot of information that can be cited in this article any article on illegal drugs will have a hard time finding reliable sources.  Information available on marijuana for instance, differs highly in the US than it does in Europe.  Almost all Government related information on drugs is incorrect, and being illegal makes it hard for scientists to find accurate answers.  So where does one turn for accurate, reliable information on drugs?  Unfortunately this falls onto the individual users... -67.84.176.234 21:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cite, cite, cite 

message: I changed On occasion, authorities have encountered the drug in other forms — including powder or crystal, and capsule — and laced on other substances to On occasion, authorities have encountered the drug in other forms — including powder or crystal, and capsule. since (a) lacing isn't really a form of LSD... examples of substances?? (b) lacing may be urban legend/public scare tactic, especially without citation. --Cornlad 14:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forms of LSD 

message: Does anyone know what testing they use to reveal a user of LSD? How long it lasts in your system? This information may have a place in the article (and I need it for a story, and since wikipedia is always my first reference...)Daemon8666 21:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The answer is in the archive.  See testing and Erowid —Viriditas | Talk 21:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My bad. Thanks for setting me straight.Daemon8666 02:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Testing 

message: According to the article:
:::In November of 2003, Pickard and Apperson were sentenced to two life sentences and two 30-year sentences, respectively, after being convicted in Federal Court of running a large scale LSD manufacturing operation out of several clandestine laboratories, including a former missile silo near Wamego, Kansas.
However, at the DEA's web site ( http://www.dea.gov/pubs/states/newsrel/sanfran112403.html ):
:::Pickard was sentenced to life imprisonment without parole. Apperson was sentenced to 30 years imprisonment without parole.
Substatually different sentences (both excessive by any standard). Which is factually correct?
Jake b 22:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Made the correction 67.42.94.9 01:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pickard and Apperson

message: This list will have to be cited.  We generally don't have such lists because they don't work particularly well; everybody adds their favrite name in use by them and their three friends in the middle of nowhere.  So if we are going to have such a list, each and every addition is going to have to be cited.  (see also talk:psychedelic mushroom, particularly the sections on slang and list of names.) --heah 19:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  nicknames 

message: The conventional wisdom on LSD is that its amphetamine-like effects cause an increase in heart rate. I would agree, based on my own experience with the drug. However, I stumbled upon this:
----
Source: An Introduction to Pharmacology 3rd edition, JJ Lewis, 1964 (p 385)
Peripheral Actions
These include an oxytocic action and constriction of the blood vessels of isolated vascular beds. In intact animals LSD causes a fall in blood pressure, but its adrenergic blocking potency is low.
LSD causes mydriasis in man and other species. It also causes hyperglycaemia and mydriasis, has a hyperthermic action and causes piloerection. These effects are sympathetic in nature and are abolished by ganglion blocking or adrenergic blocking agents. Parasympathetic effects include salivation, lachyrmation, vomiting, hypotension, and brachycardia. Low doses stimulate respiration but larger doses depress it.
----
Brachycardia would indicate a lowering  of heart rate instead of an elevation, contradicting general opinion. Can anyone substantiate/deny Mr. Lewis' above claim? If not, I also request a citation after the first paragraph in the "physical effects" section. 
Cheers -
----
Doses in animals and humans are often very different and can have different effects.  Graham and Khalidi (1954) reported that 100 ug oral LSD increased heart rate increasing by an average of 10 bpm in 12 human volunteers. This is a relatively modest change. --Mattbagg 06:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a quick note: LSD is definitely a stimulating drug (in terms of heart rate and blood pressure increases), but it is not like amphetamine. LSD is based on tryptamine, while amphetamine is based on phenethylamine, a distinct class of drugs. -Muugokszhiion 19:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Effects on Heart Rate 

message: Shouldn't the name be changed to "Lysergic acid diethylamide" since this is about the chemical, and not... well...  anything else...?  (Please respond on my talk page.) tinlv7 21:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eat it (if on a sugar cube, blotter paper, some edible medium). 67.84.176.234 05:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: It came to my knowledge the case of someone who had to be deeply sedate beacause on intense tachycardia (200 bpm) during a bad trip on LSD. Doctors said he could have easily had a heart attack or stroke. Does medical literature cite such cases? Should the article mention it?Knights who say ni 22:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure about that specific example, but LSD definitely dose elevate the heart rate. When people completely freak out, and have a panic attack, for example, the heart works overtime and it can definitely cause problems. I'm sure there could be some examples out there, but it's doubtful that many are accessible to the public (most are probably in medical records). -Muugokszhiion 19:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Once more effects on heart rate 

message: The "legal status" section currently focusses about 80% on the USA. We could use some more "global perspective" here. WP:BIAS. Thanks - 201.51.221.66 12:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's some UK links and some sample text.  The page is currently semi-protected, so I'm unwilling to edit right now.
UK Government site with information 
===England and Wales===
In England and Wales, LSD is a Class A drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.  People possessing LSD could be imprisoned for seven years, or receive an unlimited fine, or both.  People dealing LSD could be imprisoned for life, or receive an unlimited fine, or both.  
DanBeale 20:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More "global perspective" needed in legal status section 

message: In England and Wales, LSD is a Class A drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.  People possessing LSD could be imprisoned for seven years, or receive an unlimited fine, or both.  People dealing LSD could be imprisoned for life, or receive an unlimited fine, or both.  
</blockquote>
DanBeale 20:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: England and Wales

message: How much does it cost? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Right Honourable (talk • contribs) 06:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cost

message: Does it take a significantly less amount of time for LSD to take effect when administered intravenously? If so, do we have sources describing the specific amount of time? I understand that LSD administered orally will take about 30 to 90 minutes to take effect, and it struck me as odd that something so potent would take so long to affect the user. Naturally, I assume that injecting it directly into the blood stream will cause a quicker reaction, but I am not sure. 71.213.101.140 07:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 90 minutes seems to be around the average time for oral ingestion.  I've never heard of 30 minutes before.  As for IV use, I think this might have been addressed on this page or in the archives. —Viriditas | Talk 13:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intravenous Vs. Other Methods 

message: Is this an article, or a dumping ground for all the information specialists of this particular field know? Typically an article of such size is filled with unnecessary detail. Cutting it down to size and complete removal of information and sections might help the article's problems. Colonel Marksman 06:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size/detail

message: The old SMILES was not for L-isolysergic acid diethylamide as I said before. That was a mistake. Anyway, the new one was made using the latest version of ChemDraw, so I believe it is more appropriate. Synthetihkal 20:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SMILES 

message: It doesn't take much research to find that many people are dramatically affected by their experience with LSD - see quotes from users, see spiritual uses, etc.  Yet the language gets killed occasionally.  The whole LSD story is painfully incomplete without acknowledgment of this.  Can those of you who've deleted it explain your reasoning? Thanks.
Anthony Citrano 21:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Significant Personality/Life Perspective Changes

message: Overall, LSD appeared to have comparatively few adverse health consequences, of which "bad trips" were the most commonly reported (and, the researchers found, one of the chief reasons youths stop using the drug).[5
I am a little confused and disgruntled by this statement. I have a lot of doubts as the validity of 
having comparitively few adverse health consequences
 as I know for a fack that death can easly result, furthemore it seems that this source may only relate to the cheif reason why people stop LSD in which case it is important to split the sentences up as not to give the wrong impression. If the source says that LSD appears to indead have few adverse health consequences then the source can not be trusted as LSD is infact a very dangerous drug and should be removed.
--Frozenport 03:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry dude, but the fact that a source disagrees with your personal views is not a valid indictment of the source's reliability on Wikipedia. --FOo 03:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Gotta agree there, I am studying chemistry and there is nothing incorrect about the above statement. LSD has a low health risk. Travsuth 23:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

text: i think you'd be hard pressed to find one source stating that LSD was the direct cause of death. now taking LSD then preceeding to jump out a window because you think you can fly, is something totally different, and i think that is the danger you are refering to. yet, it is gravity that causes the negative health effect there, not LSD.
...and...to all you trippers, if you think you can fly, start from the ground. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.46.0.13 (talk) 10:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People dying from the direct pharmacological effects of LSD is unheard of. Even people taking tremendous doses (upwards of 100 milligrams, or 100,000 micrograms) have survived. That's not to say that their conscience is always totally intact afterwards, but they're still alive. The only death I've ever heard of was someone (probably with a pre-existing heart condition) who mainlined 750,000 micrograms and died. However, that story is probably fictitious. There have been people who have done silly things while on LSD (like jumping off of tall objects and killing themselves), but the drug LSD hasn't killed anyone at any sane dose. -Muugokszhiion 19:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health Effects 

message: I have cut the following, which is too detailed for the lead (the lead should summarise the article, not be the place for detail not found elsewhere, or to duplicate detail that is found elsewhere). I will work it into an appropriate part of the body of the article when I have time:
:"While a typical single dose of LSD is between 100 and 500 micrograms—an amount roughly equal to one-tenth the mass of a grain of sand—threshold effects can be felt with as little as 20 micrograms.
:The effects can vary greatly depending on factors such as previous experiences, state of mind and environment, as well as dose strength. Generally, LSD causes expansion and altered experience of senses, emotions, memories, time, and awareness for 6 to 14 hours, depending on dosage and tolerance. It often leads to disintegration of the historical personality and potentially new imprints. In addition, LSD may produce visual effects such as moving geometric patterns, brilliant colors and "trails" behind moving objects. LSD does not produce hallucinations in the strict sense, but instead illusions and vivid daydream-like fantasies, in which ordinary objects and experiences take on entirely different appearances or meanings. At higher doses it can cause synesthesia and other major cognitive shifts. An LSD trip can have long term psychoemotional effects; some users cite the LSD experience as causing significant changes in their personality and life perspective."
Metamagician3000 09:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now reincorporated the first of the snipped paras - though it is not wholly consisent with what is in the relevant section of the article itself. I've reconciled as well as I could without doing further research. Metamagician3000 09:35, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And now the last sentence of the second para. Metamagician3000 09:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All done now - all detail from lead now massaged in elsewhere. I hope I've left an adequate trail of my actions for anyone who wants to build on them (or dispute them). Metamagician3000 09:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Detail cut from lead

message: This seems much too good to languish as B class for long. Let's see what we can do to get it its FA status back. Metamagician3000 12:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I found one section copied directly from the DEA (the first paragraph of "Production").  It's fixed now.  Anville 18:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great work. I like to work on de-FA's articles that I have a vague interest in, even if I lack the expertise to do more than polish them up a bit. I'll come back later and see if there is any more polishing I can do. Metamagician3000 00:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to straighten out the "Flashbacks and HPPD" sub-section.  It's a little cleaner and somewhat more referenced than before.  More work is necessary in that corner; the reference I found is probably a good starting point.  Anville 18:59, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. Metamagician3000 07:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I will (if there are no objections) start to prune the external links. I think that most of them except for the ones in the "academic" section are superfluous and could be considered spam, so I think that only the links in the academic section and a few others should stay. Agreed? Jolb 03:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good.  Just make sure not to remove ones that are exceptionally good.  I think the reviewer was a little over-critical about the external links.  Yes, there are too many, but they are not what I'd consider to be link-spam.  --Thoric 07:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Getting its FA back?

message: At the moment, we are not consistent about whether we write "µg" or spell it out as "micrograms". I prefer to spell it out, for the sake of accessibility, but I'm pleased to defer to other views. What do people think? Metamagician3000 07:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm used to seeing unit names abbreviated, so I find spelling out "micrograms" a little odd.  However, "µg" looks just plain ugly in WP typesetting (LaTeX has spoiled me bad).  Given the choice here, I'd probably go for spelling out the unit.  Anville 19:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone else? Or do we go with this? Metamagician3000 12:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Though I personally prefer abbreviated unit names, "micrograms" looks much better in prose than "µg." The accessibility matter clinches it for me. —SirPavlova 12:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support using "micrograms," for reasons stated by SirPavlova. —Old american century 03:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is starting to look like a consensus. Let's implement it. Metamagician3000 07:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  A milligram is a thousandth of a gram and a microgram is one millionth of a gram, the article is correct. Cacycle 01:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Micrograms or µg?

message: the article state the best treatment for a bad trip to be diazipam, while taking calcium is accually much better.
a few glasses of milk (or in some cases 7 or 8) will bring you back down to baseline in less than half an hour, usually about 15 minutes...or..ummm...so i've heard;). i've tried looking for creditable sources to defend this claim for about an hour and a half but, to no avail. if anyone could find creditable source so this little fact could be added that would be great! people really should know this EXTREMELY USEFULL bit of info.
thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.46.0.13 (talk) 10:21, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that milk could have such a substantial effect, but benzodiazepines are frequently used by medical professionals in non life-threatening overdose cases (such as LSD, psilocybin, et al). I have seen diazepam used, but shorter-acting benzos are common as well. I believe that some of the negative effects of hallucinogens are simply produced or exacerbated by temporary hypoglycemia as a result of not eating. A sugary drink (like juice) can help fix that. Maybe this could explain the mechanism of what you're describing, because milk contains sugars and protein. -Muugokszhiion 19:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It makes no sense to speculate about mechanisms when there is not the slightest evidence that home remedies such as sugar, calcium, or milk alleviate the effects of hallucinogens. It is just a stupid rumor, albeit with a pretty long history. Cacycle 17:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, Benzodiazepines are also used post-Ibogaine treatment to calm the user down and lessen the Ibogaines side effects. --87.194.3.52 00:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SOMETHING TO BE ADDED (i hope) 

message: (copyrighted text removed)
Could someone go over these quotes from www.shroomery.com and see if it deserves to be added to the LSD article
oh and by the way Milk doesn't work , its more of a placebo effect same with calcium both methods tried and tested by me,
: The text above contained many factual errors. Please do not use it as a source for additions to the Wikipedia article. The text had to be removed because no permission was provided to copy it here. Cacycle 02:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Be Added (Advanced Pharmalogical Effects) 

message: pain killers such as Xanax really do help to calm you down during a rapid onset or a difficult experience —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nas187 (talk • contribs) 07:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the ER, anxiolytics (particularly benzodiazepines such as Xanax and Ativan) are frequently administered to calm down a patient who "overdosed" on hallucinogens. However, in the absence of medical supervision, using pharmaceutical drugs like Xanax can be risky, because most people seem to be unfamiliar with dosage and side-effects. ER treatment of LSD "overdose" could be included in the article with the appropriate citation. -Muugokszhiion 19:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anonymous addition 

message: I have semi-protected the page for one day to allow this heavily vandalized page being restored to a vandalism-free version. The best strategy to do this is to find a vandalism-free version in the history and then add all non-vandal edits back in. Cacycle 13:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, great work! Metamagician3000 11:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi protection 

message: I notice this article has been moved from LSD to Lysergic acid diethylamide.  Is that a good move?  It seems to go against WP:COMMONNAME, but there might be a good reason to do that.  Opinions? -GTBacchus(talk) 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was relaxed about it, but I would have preferred the original name, i.e. LSD. As long as a redirect is in place there's no practical difference for users. Metamagician3000 23:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most drugs are under their real name, at least if other meanings for their abbreviation exist and/or the chemical name is not too esoteric. Cacycle 01:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a dablink to the page, pointing readers to LSD (disambiguation) if they were looking for some other meaning.  That should take care of any confusion that might arise. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to full name 

message: has anyone heard of pot and acid being mixed, they seem to be used by the same people ? The Right Honourable 02:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mixed, you mean like using pot while on acid, or like somehow mixing them into a form so you ingest them together?  I've never heard of the latter, but the former is certainly common enough. -GTBacchus(talk) 06:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The latter is also quite impossible.. Let The Sunshine In 12:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One could make cookies or brownies with the cannabis and then dose the finished product with liquid LSD, but that's a rather contrived way to combine the drugs. -GTBacchus(talk) 17:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah you're right. I was thinking about smokable cannabis.. Let The Sunshine In 17:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i meant the former, but i have heard of people smoking lsd blotter tabs, i just swollow themThe Right Honourable 02:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did it work for them? Let The Sunshine In 17:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparenlty yes, but not as strong as eatingThe Right Honourable 07:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Smoking marijuana while under the effects of almost any hallucinogen, LSD included, typically extends the duration of the trip by several hours and substantially magnifies and potentiates the effect of the hallucinogen. Mixing the two is very common, although for some users the combination is overwhelming and panic-inducing. -Muugokszhiion 19:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  mixing pot and acid 

message: According to the articles Ipomoea tricolor and Ergine, it is doubious whether the active substance of Morning Glory is really ergine. --Eleassar my talk 12:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no question that these plants contain several lysergic acid amides, the big question is: which of them is responsible for the psychoactive effects. Cacycle 13:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, of course. This should be made clear in the article. --Eleassar my talk 13:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious: Ergine

message: I noticed the use of "Although,...." instead of "However,...." as in this sentence:
Although, this is the same percentage of people in general society who suffer from psychosis[citation needed].
The corrected sentence should read:
However, this is the same percentage of people in general society who suffer from psychosis[citation needed].
This is a common mistake. Some people seem to believe the grammar to be correct, because they've seen it in so many places.  It's still considered incorrect by most grammarians, as far as I know.  It's certainly distracting for us grammar geeks out here.
24.10.88.52 19:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar correction 

message: The paragraph "pharmacokinetics" describes largely pharmacodynamics of the substance. Author(s) should clarify their nomenclature in pharmacology...--84.163.72.177 13:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Go ahead and change it, it's a wiki and everybody can improve it. Cacycle 16:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pharmacokinetics? 

message: Does Nor-LSD (LSD without the 6 methyl group) exist, and if it does, what are its effects?The Right Honourable 01:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: nor-LSD is essentially inactive in rat drug discrimination (Synthesis and LSD-like discriminative stimulus properties in a series of N(6)-alkyl norlysergic acid N,N-diethylamide derivatives A. J. Hoffman, D. E. Nichols, J. Med. Chem. 28(9): 1252 - 1255 (1985)). Cacycle 04:24, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nor-LSD 

message: The article says that LSD is frequently putted into perforated paper. How, exactly, is this done? And how do you get the drug out of the paper? - Face 19:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: LSD is put on the paper by soaking the paper in a solution of LSD. Users get the drug out of the paper by putting a small square of the paper into their mouths, usually under the tongue. It is absorbed through the mucous membrane of the mouth, rather than swallowed. --FOo 05:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Paper is soaked in a solution and dried. Blotters are then simply swallowed. Cacycle 13:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So you actually swallow it? Is it eatable paper or something? - Face 21:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Surprisingly enough, a piece of paper about one square centimeter in area does not have a substantial effect on the human digestive system. --FOo 06:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Blotter paper

message: This page would be improved greatly if the mentionof the history of Operation Judy, an operation in South wales during the 1970's which found a mansion housing a lab which was producing 60% of the world's supply of LSD and colsed it down, etc.
 
To be honest, I can't be bothered toedit this page, maybe some other day; hey, where are my donuts?
Some day....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Julie
Lol , that page needs to be updated too. I'l do that, maybe on thursday... yeah, thursday.....
Awesome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.141.205.147 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 31 Jul 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvements foo