Talk:List of European regions with alternative names

message: 90% of the entries are not "alternative names", but rather alternative spellings or slight differences in pronunciation. So following the current habit this list may contain vast majority European toponyms. Therefore I suggest to make one of the changes:
#Rename into Alternative spellings for European regions
#Leave here only places with truly alternative names, moving nonnotable spelling differences into wiktionary, where they truly belong. See, e.g., wikt:Poland or wikt:England.
mikka (t) 18:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Pasquale's comments. Olessi 19:19, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I still completely disagree. The wiktionary has a completely different function than a list. There are lots of such lists in the Wikipedia and I completely fail to understand why mikka should pick on this one list. In particular, I find this List of European regions with alternative names very useful, as I am sure dozens of other Wikipedia users and contributors do as well. If mikka has no use for it, he can simply ignore it and leave it alone.  Pasquale 17:21, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Still waiting.  —Tamfang (talk) 18:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have provoked one or two users to reply on exonym list talk pages that yes they do refer to such listicles, but they did not go so far as to say for what purpose they so refer. —Tamfang (talk) 22:53, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Something is wrong

message: Guyenne has a separate entry in this list. At the same time it is merely a redirect to Aquitaine, where it is listed as a historical name. Something does not play here. 
*Either the line for "Guienne" in this list must redirect to the "Aquitaine" entry, for a full list of synonyms. 
*Or there is another Guyenne, then Guyenne must provide dismbiguation, rather than to be a redirect, and a separate line (or, rather, two lines: Guienne 1 and Guienne 2) in this list is fully justified.
*Or Guyenne is not the same or not exactly the same as Aquitaine (I mean a significant difference, rather some variations in borders), then this must be commented as well. 
Since, I have no idea about the region, I am leaving this to exterts for proper handling. mikka (t) 20:28, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Guyenne

message: Since I believe I am responsible for adding most of these regions' names, I would like to say that my policy has always been to have the current best-known name in English match the title of the corresponding Wikipedia article. I added all the Swedish regions in July 2004. At that time, the names did match the titles of the corresponding articles. All the articles on the Swedish regions used to have titles with English names identical to their Latin names (this may in fact be the official Swedish government policy). However, recently, some user decided that the articles' titles should all be changed to the Swedish names. But since it may be the case that the official Swedish policy is to encourage an English usage that matches the Latin names, no one has bothered to alter the listings in this List of European regions with alternative names. Of course, they all get redirected.
As for the Aquitaine/Guyenne problem, I originally added that region in August 2004, and put the Guyenne forms under the same heading as Aquitaine, precisely because, in the Wikipedia, Guyenne is redirected to Aquitaine. Then in October 2004, Slawojarek added a separate listing for Guyenne, but left the Guyenne doublets under Aquitaine as well. That's the way it stayed until today. Today, Aldux (and not I, as some who like to engage in futile sarcasm seem to think, without actually checking the history) removed the Guyenne-type forms from Aquitaine. When I noticed the removal, I immediately restored them, but then I realized the Guyenne-type forms were listed under a separate entry, and so I undid my restore. The name Guyenne is historically the same as Aquitaine, as both are derived from Latin Aquitania, however, it has had a somewhat different usage in history, meaning that at times in history the two terms applied to the same region, and at other times to adjacent but different regions. There are other such complex cases, e.g. Pomerania/Pomerellia, Saxony/Lower Saxony, and several more. (In any case, I fail to see why this problem should so preoccupy someone who's advocating for this article's deletion.)   Pasquale 21:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am preoccupied with order and consistency. The problem with Aquitaine/Guyenne is precisely of the same character as with list vs. wiktionary case: you allow two places for the same thing, and information will inevitably begin to diverge and even contradict to each other, unless you sit day and night to syncronize random additions to one or another page. If Gyenne is the same as Aquitaine, then one of them must redirect to another one, rather than to have a piece here and a piece there. mikka (t) 23:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarifications

message: I have posted an extensive Explanation about the usefulness and purpose of this article on Mikkalai's talk page, should anyone be interested.  Pasquale 00:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Mikkalai's talk page has apparently been deleted (and recreated) since then; it doesn't show history back that far.  Could you repeat it where one might read it? —Tamfang (talk) 18:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: On the usefulness and purpose of this article

message: I reverted one edit from Pasquale because it is not true that "Alto Adige" is used in English only when quoting the Italian name, see for example these links: , ,  or also this google search and this google scholar search.--Supparluca 12:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Alto Adige" is an English name just like "Milan", "Genoa", "Vienna" and "Ravenna". The fact that some names are identical to the Italian names doesn't mean they aren't English. I proved that the name "Alto Adige" is commonly used in English (it was and it is), just follow the links. If you prove that it isn't used in English, I'll side with you.--Supparluca 08:19, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sorry, but the links you provided are meaningless. The intent of this article (I know because I started it) is to provide a list of traditional names of historical regions (e.g. Bavaria, Burgundy, etc.) not a collection of current official names of administrative units. The two concepts are radically different and often don't match at all. You have only shown that Alto Adige occurs in English in reference to the current official Italian name of the administrative unit corresponding to the Province of Bolzano-Bozen. If you prove that it's used in English as the traditional name of the historical region of South Tyrol, I'll side with you.  Pasquale (talk) 14:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean with historical? The name "South Tyrol" didn't exist before 1918, because this province didn't exist (the name "Alto Adige" was invented during the Napoleonic occupation - anyway, my version put both names on the same level). And also: "This article attempts to give all known alternative names for all major European regions, provinces, and territories.--Supparluca 14:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. And then it says: "This article does not offer any opinion about what the "original", "official", "real", or "correct" name of any region is or was. Regions are listed alphabetically by their current best-known name in English, which does not necessarily match the title of the corresponding article." The operative words here are: "current best-known name in English". I have lived for more than 35 years in an English-speaking country and have had plenty of opportunities to discuss this region with native speakers of English. I assure you most English-speakers would draw a blank if they heard "Alto Adige" (two non-English words), but they would know what you're talking about if you said "South Tyrol". I challenge anyone to maintain otherwise. Ergo, "South Tyrol" is the current best-known name in English. Would an English-speaker say "Riesling and Gewürztraminer are the best-known wines from South Tyrol" or "Riesling and Gewürztraminer are the best-known wines from Alto Adige"? What do you think? In any case, my version leaves "Alto Adige" in place with a reference to "South Tyrol". Isn't that enough?  Pasquale (talk) 20:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, by saying "because this province didn't exist", you show once again that you're thinking of the current administrative unit (or province). This article deals with names of geographical regions independently of their status as administrative units of any country (as the regions and provinces of Italy). For example, Valtellina is not listed here because it more or less matches the administrative unit called Province of Sondrio, but because it is the name of a historical region called "Veltlin" in German, "Veltline" in French, and "Vuclina" in Romansh. Notice, by the way, that Valtellina and Province of Sondrio are separate articles in the Wikipedia, as they should be. (The collapsing of "South Tyrol"/"Alto Adige"/"Upper Adige" with Province of Bolzano-Bozen is an anomaly.) Does this clarify the meaning of "historical region" (as opposed to administrative unit) for you?  Pasquale (talk) 21:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Finally, the system of départements put in place during the Napoleonic period (and still used in France) was specifically designed to do away with the traditional names of historical regions and relied mainly on river names; that is why that département was called "Haut Adige" during the Napoleonic period. You will not find any names of Napoleonic départements in this list, precisely because they are not traditional names of historical regions.  Pasquale (talk) 21:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I said that what you call the "geographical region of South Tyrol" was born together with the province of Bolzano, so I didn't understand why you implied that "South Tyrol" is the name of an historical region while "Alto Adige" is the official name of an administrative unit.It's your opinion that "South Tyrol" is the current best-known name in English; I get 21 hits for "Alto Adige" in google news () and 14 for "South Tyrol" (). Speaking of wine, "[...] has a pinot nero from the Alto Adige (2006 Suditroler Blauburgunder, $50) that drinks like a charming burgundy." ().--Supparluca 08:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, I am not fully convinced, but I've decided to concede this point. After all, it is not that important to me personally, and no one else has spoken up. I admit that "Alto Adige" seems to get a greater number of hits on Google with exact English phrases such as "wines from Alto Adige" vs. "wines from South Tyrol", or "history of Alto Adige" vs. "history of South Tyrol", etc. Of course, frequency of usage on the Web does not tell the whole story (for example many of those hits may be from official Italian government Web sites, which makes the whole argument rather circular), but nonetheless it's a fact. So, I have restored your "Alto Adige or South Tyrol" under A and added a cross-reference under S. I hope that is satisfactory.  Pasquale (talk) 17:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems fine. Though it's not clear why the entry under "A" should include the name "South Tyrol", given the cross-reference under "S" (which rightly doesn't include "Alto Adige"). People looking for "South Tyrol" would go directly to "S" anyway.--Supparluca 07:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert explanation

message: I changed זיבּענבּורגען to זיבנבורגן because that would be the current spelling. זיבּענבּורגען is old orthography, as can be seen by the בּ (in current othography, it wouldn't have a dagesh) and the ע is not used in these places any more. For reference, see Modern English-Yiddish Yiddish-English Dictionary by Uriel Weinreich, page xxii. I also changed the transcription, because it has to be the standard system-YIVO system-on Wikipedia. Shikku27316 (talk) 01:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  זיבנבורגן 

message: I stripped out the most obvious adaptations of the same names to different phonologies, and these remained.
English name              	Other names or former names
Åland                     	Ahvenanmaa (Finnish), Ahvenamaa (Estonian)
Andalusia                 	Vandalitia (Latin), Βανδαλυσία Vandalysia (Greek)
Anjou                     	Andegavia (Latin), whence Andegawenia (Polish)
Aquitaine                 	Guienne or Guyenne (variant in English and French)
Basilicata                	Lucania (former Italian, Latin)
Basque Country            	Euskadi or Euskal Herria (Basque)
Bohemia                   	Čechy (Czech, Estonian, Slovak)
Brittany                  	Aremorica or Armorica (Classical Latin), Llydaw (Welsh)
Bukovina                  	Ţara de Sus (older Romanian)
Burgenland                	Gradiščanska (Slovene), Gradišće (Croatian), Őrvidék, Felsőőrvidék or Várvidék (Hungarian variants)
Burzenland                	Ţara Bârsei (Romanian)
Calabria                  	Bruttium (Latin)
Carinthia                 	Koroška (Slovene), Korotan (historical variant in Slovene), Koruška (Croatian, Serbian), Korutany (Czech)
Carniola                  	Krain (Danish, Dutch, Finnish, German, Swedish), Kraina (Polish), Krajna (Hungarian), Kranjska (Croatian, Estonian, Slovene), Kraňsko (Czech)
Chełmno Land              	Kulmerland (Dutch, German, Hungarian), Culmland (variant in English)
Courland                  	Couronia or Curonia (variants in English)
Crete                     	Candia (former Italian), Kandia (former Turkish)
England                   	Bro-Saoz (Breton), Lloegr (Welsh), Pow Sows (Cornish), Sasainn (Scottish Gaelic), Sasana (Irish), Sostyn (Manx)
Epirus                    	Çamërië / Çamëria (Albanian)
Euboea                    	Eğriboz (Turkish), Negroponte (former Italian)
Faroe Islands             	na Scigirí (variant in Irish), Ovčji otoci (official Croatian, rarely used), Schafsinseln (German), Wyspy Owcze (Polish)
Finnmark                  	Ruija (Finnish)
Franche-Comté             	Freigrafschaft Burgund (German until the 17th century), Burgundia (Medieval Latin)
Friuli                    	Forum Iulii, Foroiulium or Forum Iulium (Latin)
Galicia (Central Europe)  	Gácsország (variant in Hungarian), Halič (Czech), Puna-Venäjä (historical Finnish)
Götaland                  	Geatland (variant in English)
Gotland                   	Ojamaa (Estonian)
Graubünden                	Graubünden (Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, German, Hungarian, Romanian, Swedish, variant in English), Grigioni (Italian), Grischun (Romansh), Grisons (French)
Greater Poland            	Posnania (Italian)
Hiiumaa                   	Dagö (German, Swedish)
Holland                   	Batavia (Latin variant)
Lapland                   	Finnmark (Norwegian), Sápmi (Sami)
Laponia (Finland & Sweden)	Finnmark (Norwegian, older Swedish), Sápmi (Sami)
Livonia                   	Inflantia (variant in English and Polish)
Metohija                  	Rrafsh i Dukagjinit (Albanian)
Moldavia                  	Boğdan (former Turkish)
Nösnerland                	Naszód (Hungarian), Năsăud (Romanian alternate)
Ostrobothnia              	Pohjanmaa (Estonian, Finnish)
Peloponnese               	Morea (older English, older Italian), Μωρέας Moréas / Μωριάς Moriás  (variants in Greek)
Prekmurje                 	Transmuraland (variant in English), Muravidék (Hungarian), Übermurgebiet or Murland (German)
Rhineland                 	Dúiche na Réine (Irish), Nadrenia (Polish), Porenje (Slovene), Porýní (Czech), Porýnie (Slovak), Rajna-vidék (Hungarian), Reinimaa (Estonian), Rejnlando (Esperanto), Renaneye (Walloon), Renània (Catalan), Renania (Italian, Romanian, Spanish), Renânia (Portuguese), y Rheindir (Welsh), Rheinland (Croatian, Danish, Estonian alternate, Finnish, German, Low Saxon, Norwegian, Romanian), Rhénanie (French), Rhenlandet (Swedish), Rhinlandet (variant in Danish), Rijnland (Dutch), Rínarlönd (Icelandic), Rynlân (Frisian), Rynland (Afrikaans), Tír na Réine (Irish)
Ruthenia                  	Vene (Estonian)
Saaremaa                  	Ösel (German, Swedish), Ozylia (former Polish), Sāmsala (Latvian)
Saarland                  	Posarje (Slovene)
Samogitia                 	Schamaiten (German), Žemaitija (Estonian, Finnish, Lithuanian), Żmudź (Polish)
Samos                     	Sisam (Turkish)
Sardinia                  	Ichnusa (Phoenician), Sandalyon or Sardo (Classical Greek)
Satakunta                 	Finlandia Septentrionalis (Latin)
Scotland                  	Alba (Scottish Gaelic), Albain (Irish), Alban (Cornish), Albania (Latin variant), Caledonia (Latin variant), Nalbin (Manx), Yr Alban (Welsh)
Selonia                   	Felföld (Hungarian)
South Tyrol               	Alto Adige (Italian), Oberetsch (variant in German [once used by Italian government])
Sudetenland               	pohraniční území (variant in Czech)
Svalbard                  	Huippuvuoret (Finnish), Teravmäed (Estonian)
Tavastia                  	Häme (Estonian, Finnish)
Transylvania              	Chiskarpattya Чискарпаття (Ukrainian), Erdély (Hungarian), Siebenbürgen (German), Siedmiogród (Polish)
Trentino                  	Welschtirol (German)
Uusimaa                   	Newland (variant in English), Nyland (Danish, Swedish)
Västerbotten              	Länsipohja (Finnish), West Bothnia (variant in English)
Vorpommern                	Swedish Pomerania (former name 1641-1815)
Wallachia                 	Havasalföld (Hungarian), Ţara Românească (Romanian)
Wales                     	an Bhreatain Bheag (Irish), Cymru (Welsh) = Kembre (Breton)
Zeeland (Netherlands)     	Batavia (Latin)
Žitný ostrov              	Csallóköz (Hungarian), Grosse Schüttinsel (German), Rye Island (English variant)
The word alternative implies choice.  No one writing about Basque issues chooses between il-Pajjiżi Baski (Maltese) and Tír na mBascach (Irish). —Tamfang (talk) 19:44, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  genuine alternatives 

message: I know there is the Europa of the Nations - the European Union.  But there is here in Brussels also a building called the Committee of the Regions aka "COR" - www.cor.europa.eu - "the European Union's assembly of regional and local representatives".  It further reads "The CoR has 350 full members and the same number of alternate members."; so how many regions has this article listed? The letter "A" had some 25 regions listed. Just an estimation, I gamble there are some 525 regions listed here? Happy counting :) Thy --SvenAERTS (talk) 00:05, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anybody counted how many of these regions there are in Europa?