Talk:Ll

message: *In Albanian, the position is the reverse of Spanish, with an Albanian written Ll having a standard /l/ sound, while an Albanian written L is liquid.
I'm do not know what this is trying to say. Both the /l/ and /ʎ/ sounds are liquids. — Ливай | ☺ 20:39, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As of 1994, neither "ch" nor "ll" are separate letters in the Spanish alphabet. —Scott5114↗ 21:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They no longer affect collation in word lists, but they are still separate letters in that one correctly spells out chilla as che, i, elle, a.  — Chameleon 07:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

message: Is there an IPA-symbol or IPA-transcription for this elle? -DePiep (talk) 08:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA transcription 

message: hola sol yenifer  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.167.6.17 (talk) 21:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  hola sol  yenifer nesesito ablar de negocio perlsonales 

message: Has its own code in the Latin Extended Additional Unicode block. The capital appears to be an IL digraph; the miniscule appears to be an ll digraph connected by a line at the top.
No idea how to offer support for it, though. — LlywelynII 08:16, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Medieval Welsh LL

message: The Ghanaian Akan group of languages, including Fante and "Twi", which is not pronounced "twee", but "[liquid-l]ee", incorporate this phoneme or a sound like it.  It is pronounced something like "sh" and "wh" simultaneously, as in the (Anglicized) "main yay llay", meaning roughly "I'm not doing anything."Euonyman (talk) 16:49, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  the liquid ll also occurs in languages from Ghana 

message: Information regarding the use of [·] vs. [⋅] in the Catalan section of this article appears to contradict that given in the corresponding section of the article on the interpunct. ZFT (talk) 17:14, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Should be covered here.  This article has the version that sounds like "sh" in sheep (/ʃ/) and "si" in vision (/ʒ/), and the more common "y" (/j/) pronunciation, but nothing to cover the "j" (/dʒ/) used by Puerto Ricans. For example "me llamo" ("my name is"), more commonly pronounced as "may yammo", is pronounced by Puerto Ricans as "may jammo". Obviously, I am not well enough versed in linguistics to contribute to the article, but I do know this is pretty standard for Puerto Rican Spanish speakers, especially in New York. Jyg (talk) 20:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prounced like a 'j' by Puerto Ricans 

message: In other orthographies, LL is obviously derives from L. 
* In some cases is a construction parallel to other twin letters, such as tt (German "Fett" and "Fell", twin consonants after short pronunciation of a vowel). 
* In some cases is is the outcome of an assilimation, like "collateral(is)" from "con-lateral(is)", originally meaning "side-by-side". In Spanish, such assimilations created a new sound, a palatalized L, IPA [​ʎ​], derived from Latin CL (clavis -> Llave – key), FL (FLAMMA -> llama – flame) and PL (PLANUS -> llano – plane). Overseas, in Latin America, this sound has been modified.
In Welsh names, it is evident that the frequent "Llan…" and "Lland…" corresponds to Roman "San" and "Sant", derived from Latin "SANCTUS". That observation suggests that Welsh "ll" is the generically wrong graphical adaption of an ancient letter of another alphabet (in Ogham inscription I looked in vain.) consisting of two vertical lines, or at least of parallel lines.
* Such a generically wrong graphical adaption is known in German: There are surnames with "hs", drived from "ſs" (long S + short S). The cursive-script ſ looked like the kurrent-script h.
An appropriate origin could be the Hebrew ש‎, though it consists of three parallel verticals. Another letter consisting of parallel lines, and even phonetically a bit similar to Welsh "ll" is the Greek Ξ.
--Ulamm (talk) 13:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I asked this question also to a professor of Celtic languages in Germany: The "Llan…" is no "San". It is rather related to the French word "lande" = heath. It marked – differently from "lande" – cultivated (an therefore woodless) areas.--Ulamm (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Welsh ll