Talk:Fedorov Avtomat

message: As the title says, this article needs an actual photo of this weapon, preferably in colour. There are a few photos on http://world.guns.ru of this weapon, but those are probably copyrighted. Are there any non-copyrighted photos on the intertubes, or will we have to claim fair use? 124.177.110.215 08:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs a photo 

message: The Manual of Style quite clearly states that "The Wikipedia rule for commas and periods in numbers is, for example 12,345,678.901—contrary to Continental style". Now, although these cartridges are often referred to using commas in their countries of origin (7,92x57mm instead of 7.92x57), this is the English Wikipedia, not the German or Russian Wikipedia. Out of the 4 biggest countries where English is the primary language: Canada, the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom, none use Continental style as the primary style (as far as I know). Additionally, since no other cartridge articles use Continental style for their designations (See here and here, for example), this article should be no different - the 6.5mm Arisaka and 6.5mm Fedorov should be written out according to the standard of the Wikipedian Manual of Style, not in Continental Style. CeeWhy2 00:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Japanese do not use Continental style - they use the period as the decimal seperator. Even if they did, it is correct to write the caliber designation in this article with a period, as this is the English-language version of Wikipedia, as you correctly point out, CeeWhy2. Thanks, Twalls 23:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full Stop/Period vs. Comma 

message: Why does the picture of the Fedorov Avtomat have a German MG-15 magazine in it??  The MG-15 wasn't invented until the 1930s. Every picture I have seen of the Fedorov with a detachable magazine shows the same magazine. There is one picture I've found that shows 3 different versions of the Fedorov, all with the MG-15 magazine.  Interestingly enough the magazine release is in front of the magazine on one, behind the magazine on another and completly missing from the third.  And even stranger is how far each magazine is loaded into the gun, the first has it all the way in, the second half way out and the third only the magazine lips are inserted into the magazine well. Some sort of cheap attemtp at making each model look like each has a larger magazine capacity than the other? IMHO, most of the information about the Fedorov Avtomat is soviet propaganda to reinvent history. Is it mentioned/shown anywhere before the AK-47 became known?  period photos(plural), picutre from an armory or mueseum, newspaper article, a book, a video, is there even a patent filing?  When exactly did the rifle first become known anywhere?  ZURAK  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.85.188 (talk) 06:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, maybe you're trying to brainwash? Many Germans, including living in different regions of the world, after the defeat in WWII experience feel a loser and trying to distort history. Would like to note that the Germans were not so advanced and high-tech, stole soviet technology, inventions, Jewish scholars, etc. Also need to understand that there is also an anti-Soviet propaganda that distorts any fact in any field. Soviet propaganda has long been in the past, all the Soviet archives have long been declassified, but that documents such as the U.S., are still not disclosed, but anti-Soviet propaganda continues. Probably a lot of money that was invested in the propaganda machine of the Cold War in the U.S., have generated enormous corruption lobby and this rusty machine continues сreaking to work and today :) 89.189.191.5 (talk) 15:09, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  MG-15 magazine? 

message: The full text of the article cited has been posted in HTML version here. I'm not adding the link to the wiki article because they only credit the original author, but not the publication, which makes me suspect it might be reprinted without permission. Someone not using his real name (talk) 08:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Оружие 1999/4 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Fedorov Avtomat. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140602021550/http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm to http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: from 1913 to 1915 it was the production of the second prototype semi automatic version and from 1916 to 1925 it was the production of the second prototype automatic version  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.95.26.168 (talk) 05:58, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  a notice 

message: A "crew served" weapon requires more than one soldier to operate it, like a belt-fed machine gun that requires at least another soldier to carry and feed ammunition to the weapon in order for it to be used.  This weapon is clearly NOT of that type.  Even Wikipedia thinks so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew-served_weapon
:It was issued to a two-man crew, being a gunner and a loader/ammo carrier. Your definition is lacking since the modern US military considers sniper rifles to be crew-served weapons as they are issued to a two-man team (sniper and spotter). Bones Jones (talk) 06:41, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's a good trick to group together assault rifles and MGs, IMO... Профессор кислых щей (talk) 12:07, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crew Served? 

message: "At the time of its use, the Fedorov Avtomat was one of only three practical fully automatic rifles in service, the other two being the American M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle and the French Chauchat."
I think this is not just subjective, but also conjecture, ignoring the Lewis Gun from Britain, as well as the Madsen Machinegun from Denmark, both which pre-date the Fedorov.81.227.20.48 (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Practical" 

message: OK, I am fine with "Still other writers argue that the Cei-Rigotti (which predates the Fedorov by 20 years) was the world's first assault rifle" part. After all, Italians had Girardoni air rifle in 1780s, long before metal casings were even a thing. But I don't like the "superior German engineering" meme. There are bait claims Sturmgevehr was straight-up copied by the Soviet people.
That's why I made an "even earlier automatics" section, just in case. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 07:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, why the author of the article on XM7 keeps slapping "unsourced"/"WP:OR" labels on my edits? (Inb4 "it IS unsourced").My edits rely on information that have already been documented. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 14:00, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  2023 opinion 

message: Sometimes, a term battle rifle is used to tell .308/7.62x51 (FN FAL) or 7.62x54R (AVS-36) or 7.92x57 (FG-42) autos apart from 7.62x39 (AK-47 and its family) and 5.56x45 (AR-15 family, M-16) assault rifles. However, the 6.5x50mm Arisaka cartridge lies somewhere in between.
* There are cartridges like 7x43mm ".280 British", 6.5mm Grendel and .277 Fury; where the latter is used for the modern American XM7 rifle, believed to be an "assault rifle". Maybe it's a WP:OR to say so, but that's kind of cute how Fedorov Avtomat-like guns are "back on the menu". Профессор кислых щей (talk) 07:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparing the calibers 

message: According to this link - https://web.archive.org/web/20140602021550/http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm - "it can be argued"
Excerpt from the article:
 It can be argued that neither the Cei-Rigotti nor the Federov Avtomat used "intermediate" cartridges, as the 6.5mm Carcano and Arisaka were the front-line rifle/MG rounds in the Italian and Japanese armies respectively. This is true, but it is worth bearing in mind that, in terms of calibre and muzzle energy, they were in the same class as the present-day 6.8x43 Remington SPC and 6.5x38 Grendel, which are today regarded by many as ideal intermediate cartridges for assault rifles.
The emphasis is mine. I do believe  it is a reference. 
=== A possible reason it's argueable ===
A smokeless gunpowder round with the muzzle energy of X and the of caliber of Y does belong in a literal weight category of Z. 
It is an unpleasant practice to imply it's rather A, using old sources that refer to "alpha" or "aleph", but it would make sense for sophisticated devices. However, a gun cartridge is a very simple and very conservative invention, that has no traits to research; unless summing up 2 plus 2 is "re5earch" as well. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 07:29, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting a sourced claim per WP:OR 

message: A smokeless gunpowder round with the muzzle energy of X and the of caliber of Y does belong in a literal weight category of Z. 
It is an unpleasant practice to imply it's rather A, using old sources that refer to "alpha" or "aleph", but it would make sense for sophisticated devices. However, a gun cartridge is a very simple and very conservative invention, that has no traits to research; unless summing up 2 plus 2 is "re5earch" as well. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 07:29, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A possible reason it's argueable