Talk:Minimalism

message: Practitioners of this form of simplicity were heavily influenced by authors such as Henry David Thoreau, and tend to divest themselves of all in life but the meaningful. They enjoy purging clutter, and streamlining everything. These minimalists didn't even bother to show up and write a proper paragraph about themselves for this article. Bravo. ~~Insightfullysaid, 25 September 2011~~  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Insightfullysaid (talk • contribs) 02:40, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Minimalist Living

message: i'd say punk rock movement is also a minimalistic movement. tired of long instrumental solos boasting about the musicmanships, punk emerged as a movement based on minimalistic riffs eg. The Ramones.Muthuppattar (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You'd say? Any reliable sources that also would? GreyWinterOwl (talk) 18:16, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Punk Rock Minimalism

message: I think the section Minimalism in Philosophy would be better titled Minimalism in Life or some such. Philosophical Minimalism refers to a similar view to deflationism, it has to do with reducing the burden of 'truth' on a sentence.
questions: where is the link between minimalism as a concept in art and stuff and 'minimalist philosophies'? what actually are these 'minimalist philosophies'? so, if the author feels that it is true that money is the general medium of things in this world, how come he criticises life depending on money as if that would be a matter of personal choice; just as if there could be philosophies that would freely chose this actual fact of socialisation as a random move to gain meaning?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.44.169.181 (talk • contribs) .
I find it quite disturbing how the Japanese philosophy of minimalism has not been discussed even though almost all miminalist art and design has been greatly influenced by traditional Japanese design.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Waynepl107 (talk • contribs) .
I have now changed the title. If someone with a better english than mine could try to reformulate what's inside...
questions: where is the link between minimalism as a concept in art and stuff and 'minimalist philosophies'? Imomentt (talk) 08:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Philosophy

message: This page really needs to be split up into a disambiguation page for visual minimalism and musical minimalism. There is definitely enough info about both to require separate pages. Hyacinth
===Split===
In agreement with Hyacinth, I believe that each subtopic in this article potentially contains more than enough depth to warrant splitting it up into multiple articles.  Doing so may also lead to more in-depth development of each topic.  C4Diesel 9:50, 14 Sep 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambiguate

message: In agreement with Hyacinth, I believe that each subtopic in this article potentially contains more than enough depth to warrant splitting it up into multiple articles.  Doing so may also lead to more in-depth development of each topic.  C4Diesel 9:50, 14 Sep 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Split

message: I've created a  template feel free to add other important examples of postmodernism - broadly defined - in this template so that readers can gain a better understanding of the terms involved by comparing and contrasting their use over several articles. Stirling Newberry 17:29, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree with this decision as minimalism is widely viewed as modern art rather than postmodern art by a great deal of art historians.  The object-oriented nature of minimalism in the obvious last breath of modernism before conceptualism and postmodern thought took over art movements. Vanessa kelly 03:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postmodernism series 

message: Perhaps this quotation is relevant somewhere on the page? "Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." –Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900–1944)
:not really. minimalism isn't taking things away, it's not adding them in the first place.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Mea (talk) 05:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotation 

message: I think the question of whether Hemingway founded literary minimalism needs to be discussed. First, if you believe that Hemingway is the founder (I don't), you might look to Hemingway's antecedents as the founders of minimalsim: Gertrude Stein and Sherwood Anderson.
Second, Hemingway could arguably be called the founder of "hard-boiled" fiction, but I don't consider him a minimalist in the sense that minimalism is used to describe some schools of modern art. Hemingway used words sparingly, but his work wasn't formal or totally objective, as minimalism in art is.
I would like to remove the section on Hemingway, if no one has any objections. Griot 20:55, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway as Founder of "Literary Minimalism" 

message: I'm not advocating including Martin as a minimalist author, but I am seeking clarification. If anyone has read "Shopgirl" or "The Pleasure of my Company" I'd be interested in an opinion. I personally consider Martin's writing style minimalist because he doesn't label his characters; he merely presents them and lets the reader decide what they are. But the dialog is not necessarily simple. So does a richer dialog disqualify a work as minimalist.
--
The dialog, in this case, would likely eject him from the nomenclature as well as the fact that his presentation of characters, although somewhat novel, is by no means a typical minimalist technique, but rather one that eschews a normal sense of identity for reader interpretation. (JetBlack11 (talk) 20:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steve Martin 

message: It's good to see this back. While it needs lots of work, it shouldn't be deleted outright. I also cleaned up some red links and improper external links. If an artist doesn't have a page, they really shouldn't be listed, and definitely not linked to externally. Eva Hesse is not a post-minimalist. She died in 1970. She's more proto-minimalist, if such a term can be employed. At least she belongs to a whole field of post-abstract-expressionist sculpture of which I'm uncertain of a categorical name: somewhat minimalist, early postmodern, process art, something like that. Freshacconci 16:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minimalism in visual art 

message: I wrote a section on the early history of minimalism and how it developed, then realized that there was a separate page for Minimalist Music, and moved that material over there instead. I did, however, change the section on the controversiality of the term minimalism, deleting this sentence - "The minimalist movement in music bears only an occasional relationship to the movement of the same name in visual art" - because I can't imagine what it means. Seems to me, either it bears no relation - and how identical can any musical movement be with any visual art movement - or it bears some relation that could be critically argued, but remained pretty consistent over the time in question. Kylegann 14:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were roughly parallel movements, at least at the beginning, and I believe Michael Nyman coined the term for music based on the precedent set in visual art. However, the sentence you refer to is a bit vague. It would need to be supported more, maybe expanded to explain what that means, i.e. how were the two movements connected, if at all, and more importantly, how did they differ? To say they '[bear] only an occasional relationship" still implies some sort of relationship, but in what way? I think something on this is crucial, but would need some work.Freshacconci 16:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Apart from your assessment, Kyle (by the way I used one of your articles in my thesis about post-minimalism, thanks!), in terms of the title of this section "The Development of Early Minimalism," need we really say that John Cage was an influence for the founders?  Barring " 4'33" " which was more stunt than a thematic shift for him, are we really claiming that "In C" or "Electric Counterpoint" etc... were influenced by Cage pouring water and a bale of hay in a piano, or lighting a violin on fire?  It is undeniable that his actions portrayed a major shift in "serious music" from the mathematic dogma of serialism, but does this then inherently place him as the primary mention of influence to minimalism?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JetBlack11 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development of Early Minimalism 

message: I know much more about minimalism in music and visual art than I do about minimalism in film.  But I would not have called the movie Last Life in the Universe a minimalist movie. It has plot, character development, intrigue, and variety of mood, none of which I would associate with a minimalist aesthetic.  By contrast, van Sant's Gerry or some of Warhol's films fit this label much better. 2006-11-03.
:The problem with adding Warhol to this category is that it doesn't quite fit. Warhol's earlier films are often considered proto-structuralist films, as they are about the act of filming itself. The "minimal" elements of Warhol's films are somewhat secondary to the duration, structure and pop aspects (i.e. dealing with stardom, personalities, glamour [at least squalor-as-glamour]). To list Warhol as a representative of minimalist film is misleading. A better example (at least from the art world) would be Chantal Akerman. But then, as the main page indicates, the minimalist film entry needs major work.Freshacconci 15:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I tried thinking of something I read about minimalism and film and came up with nothing. It's used as an aethetic description as you mention, but there was no "minimalist" film movement in the way there was for art and music.Freshacconci 19:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minimalism in Film 

message: A good article, and the first art-oriented article I have seen without external links!  --CliffC 02:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minimalism in commerce 

message: Just noticed something that's been here a while - anybody know how to keep Nicole's picture from overlapping the  template at the bottom of the page? --CliffC 16:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template overlapped by picture 

message: Many current artists feel their image should be here. Lets keep it to the movement and those of the period. --Mach535 04:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Minimalism was an art historical movement. Any revivals should be covered elsewhere if at all. Freshacconci 04:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed current designer image

message: StN -- You are right insofar as I wouldn't consider Robert Rauschenberg a quintessential minimalist. But there are aspects of Rauschenberg's work that can be considered minimalist. He would not be considered a part of a minimalist school, or of a minimalist movement, but I can think of work I've seen by Rauschenberg that I would consider minimalist. I once saw a big retrospective at a big New York City museum of the work of Rauschenberg. My favorite paintings of the show were very early, and very large, silkscreen paintings, executed entirely in black. I think they were on a white background. The imagery was realistic -- mayby photo-lithographs.  I would certainly think the descriptive term minimal could be applied to them. But you are right, I think, that Robert Rauschenberg would not be considered a minimalist. Bus stop 05:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Frank Stella's work also wound up far from minimilism, but he was a central figure in the early movement, so should remain here.  With Rauschenberg it was a trial effort before he found his voice, sort of like Rothko the fauvist.--StN 16:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: StN -- Did he find his voice or did he lose his voice? I think Rauschenberg's early work was arguably his best. Bus stop 17:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I won't argue with your judgment, Bus stop.  I like much of his work from all his periods.  I think, though, that once he settled into his neo-Dada style, or whatever you would call it, he stayed with it.  So he must feel comfortable with that mode of expression.--StN 17:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Rauschenberg the minimalist 

message: What about J.M. Coetzee? No modern writer fits the description better imo.
:And since when is Chuck Palahniuk a minimalist?  He has a way of creeping into a lot of unnecessary places on wikipedia.  I'm suspicious, but I don't know the full expanse of Palahniuk's work.  From the stuff I know he's definitely not.  But a Palahniuk expert can feel free to defend him.  I'd also question Bret Easton Ellis, but Palahniuk is the guy who seems to creep into more unnecessary places.  Also, William Carlos Williams wrote one of the most famous minimalist poems in history: "The Red Wheelbarrow".  His absence is a shame.  Creeley (along with half the major poets in the last half of the twentieth century) wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Williams.  So I say Coetzee and Williams have more of a place than Palahniuk and Ellis.
:Overall, the lit section is odd.  It jumps from talking about minimalism as a reaction against metafiction (but doesn't explain why) in the 70's to talking about people from all over the century (jumping back to Hemingway, for example, implying that he was reacting against the metafiction of the 1970s even though he'd been dead a couple of decades), and the list includes some people who use metafiction.  Doesn't make that much sense.  Plus, why not throw in a few examples or explanations?  Pounds' "In the station of the metro" is two lines, won't take up much room.  You could probably cut and paste the entirety of "Breathe" by Samuel Beckett and not take up much space.  Some brief explanations at least would be helpful.  And why no mention of haiku?  The biggest influence on twentieth century poetic minimalism?
F. Simon Grant 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lit

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Michael Nyman-Gattaca-The Other Side.ogg

message: Why is there no information on minimalist cooking?
(Asked because I came to this page to try and prove to my girlfriend that adding tonnes of every spice in the cabinet doesn't lead to good food -- just indigestion and rectal discomfort. 75.37.199.71 (talk) 19:07, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cooking? 

message: I am wondering do we need to put "copyright" tags on numerous images of minimalism since many of them don't meet threshold of originality? --Artman40 (talk) 12:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Threshold of originality

message: . 68.100.146.5 (talk) 04:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I think "Minimalism in visual art" should be a separate article. Bus stop (talk) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Too much

message: With regards to the above unsourced idea written in the article and used here as this section's heading, I would like to object to its veracity.  It seems to mean that those who add details in quantity lack quality in each detail, whereas every minimalist detail is of a higher quality than what can be found elsewhere.  This is plainly not true, as for thousands of years, there have been craftsmen who have made high-quality detailing that was used again and again on a structure.  And there are minimalist structures that lack any appreciable quality. --Riction (talk) 14:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ornamentations are quality rather than quantity

message: I think there is a rough consensus here that the material on minimalism-like-what-judd-did ought be pulled out into a separate page; I intend to do this in a few days unless anyone has a strong objection? Pho-logic (talk) 09:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Keeping in mind the complexity and subtlety of the art and the artists - I think Minimal art is not just what Judd did, although I agree the section on Minimal art can probably be expanded...Modernist (talk) 12:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean creating a separate article for minimalism in visual art? I'd support that in principle, however what we would be left with in this article would be a hodgepodge. I know little about literary minimalism but minimalism in music is a key topic in its own right and it would be stuck between that whole section on design minimalism (which has its own problems) and the very truncated literary minimalism section. This may require an overview article, such as Baroque, which explains the use of the term in history and gives an overview of the different types of baroque art, and then separate articles on visual art, music and so on with more detail. From what I see, the visual art section could stand on its own (unless I'm missing something) but I do worry about what kind of dog's breakfast we'd be left with in the main article on minimalism in general. freshacconci talktalk 12:20, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a separate article on minimal music and what is in this article is a quick overview. That's what I'd like to see if visual art is split. We still have the problem with the design section which comes first for some reason. If no one has the energy or interest to create separate articles for architecture and literature, we'd need to rearrange things so design isn't first (and that section needs a lot of work in any case). Also, it's my hunch that the general reader, when thinking of minimalism, thinks of visual art first. I'd suggest, if we split the article, to lead of with: a general intro to minimalism, then a brief section on visual art (with the disambig link to the main minimalism in visual art article), then music, then architecture, with design rolled in, then literature. Something like that. freshacconci talktalk 12:27, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, I mean minimalism in the visual arts, & obviously more than just Judd, but still reasonably tightly defined. I support freshacconci's proposal, that we split off, have an overview section here, and rearrange this article. Pho-logic (talk) 21:09, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the proposal as well...Modernist (talk) 21:52, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right! Does anyone object? If not, I'll do it over the next day or two. 12:18, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Leaving this one as is and a new article focused only on minimal visual art along the lines of Minimal music might work...Modernist (talk) 20:05, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right, I have created the new page, I've just copied all the content over, and we can futz around with that over there and prune the content here reasonably hard. I also suggest we try and rearrange this page so minimalism (visual arts) and minimalism (music) are prominent, because I think those are the two most common uses. Pho-logic (talk) 01:21, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

text: I added Minimalism (visual arts) to Minimalism (disambiguation). Bus stop (talk) 05:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting 

message: right|thumb|Example of minimalist and neomodern dasign in an office building in Pretoria.
Hi everyone, I have included this image of a facade of a building in Pretoria, South Africa which has a minimalist architectural design. Some users however do not allow it to be included in the article. Please share your views. Thank you. --PretoriaTravel (talk) 12:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You were adding the same image to 4 articles, without any other additions (text) to the article, which makes it look like spamming. Cst17 (talk) 12:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nou het ek jou verstaan. Ag, nie man.. A friend of mine made a comment that there are no images illustrating contemporary architecture in Pretoria, so I decided to make some of modern images in Pretoria East. The image is intended to serve the same function as this photo (it is not mentioned in the text, but is included in four articles. Jammer vir die misverstand. Regards --PretoriaTravel (talk) 13:01, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New image 

message: I've removed a portion of the lede where it said "to achieve the maximum effect". First, that portion was unsourced, as is basically the whole lede. Second, I don't think any reliable source would really assert that the effect of minimalism is the highest above all other arts and styles. GreyWinterOwl (talk) 18:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to argue against your edit, but you should be aware that ledes are meant to summarize the article content, and so in the ordinary way they should not include any referencing. Sources supporting the claims, however, should be provided where those claims are found (more amply discussed) in the main part of the article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:19, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality and Sources 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: This article doesn't show enough about minimalist lifestyles which are becoming increasingly common. – Craig Davison (talk) 14:56, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Right at the top, it says: . The article you're looking for is Simple living. Vexations (talk) 15:23, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lifestyle 

message: How can minimalism be both part of Japanese traditions and have started after WW2?
And also, both Zen and Minimalism originated from Taoism in China 2500 years ago, and yet there is no mention of it in the article.
Barbar03 (talk) 00:01, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there should be a stronger distinction drawn between the general tendency across all time periods (which should probably be mostly covered in this article), and the specific 20th century movement (which should probably mostly be covered at Minimalism (visual arts)).--Pharos (talk) 16:22, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical origins and contradictions