Talk:National Novel Writing Month

message: This article contains some promotional language. See WP:NOT.
Examples include:
". The goal of NaNoWriMo is to get people writing and keep them motivated throughout the process. To ensure this, the website provides participants with tips for writer's block, local places writers participating in NaNoWriMo are meeting, and an online community of support."
Others are unencyclopedic and use language that is loaded with emotion, such as:
"From 5 pm to 11 pm, hundreds of writers are gathered together in the Julia Morgan Ballroom to eat, chat, exchange excerpts, enter raffle contests, listen to speeches, meet the staff, but most of all, to write. Every hour or so, a 10–20 minute 'word war' is held in which the entire room falls almost completely silent with concentration, save for the sound of keystrokes. Whoever writes the most words in the allotted time frame is temporarily awarded the much-coveted flower pot ha"Jh1234l (talk) 22:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have revised the Night of Writing Dangerously section to remove the quoted language above. Grn1749 (talk) 21:51, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: ADVERT

message: Hmm...
Would it be better to move some of these timed contest links off to the list of timed artistic contests and leave only the ones that are directly related/inspired by NaNo (such as EdMo, WriYe, JulMo)? What do you guys think?  Tiakalla 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - they are clearly out of scope of the article which is a specific event organized by OoLL. It would be similar to the article for McDonalds spending a quarter of its writing on other restaurants that are not a part of the McD's franchise simply because they are restaurants like McDonals. Unless someone can put forward a valid explation showing how they are within article scope, I will be removing them207.69.137.36 02:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand, the non-OoLL sponsored contests are still a part of the idea of NaNoWriMo. While I agree that they probably shouldn't have their own sections in this article, would anyone object to giving them their own page, now that that the list of timed artistic contests has been removed? (Thirteen figure skater (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is objection as they are not notable. Most have either been deleted before or noted as being not notable. They have to meet the same notability requirements as any other topic, namely significant coverage in reliable, third party sources. Thus far, NaNo and maybe the script version are the only ones with that notability. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Out of scope of article?

message: I tried to go to the BBC Radio Scotland writing event link "Write Here, Right Now" , but couldn't find it on the BBC Radio Scotland webpage.  Is this event still going on?  If so where is the link to it? 166.70.24.133 22:15, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dead Link?

message: I know there have been criticisms of NaNoWriMo, saying that the strict time limit and word targets are against the so-called "spirit" of writing. Any thoughts on including such a section? --Jake Papas (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you got any reliable sources directly commenting on NaNoWriMo, it is fair game. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 02:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Make that "if and only if". They need to be fairly respectable sources, too, per WP:RS. But yes, having found those sources it would be fine to expand the article. --Masamage ♫ 03:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms? 

message: I don't agree with this statement. The article claims that no pre-written material may go into the body of the text, but can people not continue a previously started novel provided they continue from the point they stopped, and do not include the previous 50,000 words in the November Month? - 137.195.250.2 (talk) 17:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia reports what the sources say. For official interpretation, you will need to go to NaNoWriMo. (if you start a Wikipedia account, we can also discuss this on your talk page or mine. But article talk pages are not a Forum, they are for discussing how to improve the content of the article.)-- The Red Pen of Doom 17:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's okay to ask questions if our own article is confusing; it shouldn't be, after all. So, OP, what that sentence means is not that you take words from another novel, but that the novel may not be finished by the time you hit 50,000 words, and that's okay--you still win. But yes, you can then go on the next year and write the next 50,000 words of the same novel. You just can't count any of your old words. --Masamage ♫ 18:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a reword to make clearer? Instead of "Participants either write a complete novel of fifty thousand words or simply write the first fifty thousand words of a novel which may require more text to complete" maybe something like "Participants write fifty thousand words, which may form a complete novel or only part of one." -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Somewhere in the rules at the site it makes it clear that to "officially win" you must start from scratch and not just write 50K more words on a pre-existing work. -- The Red Pen of Doom 20:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, it doesn't. You can officially win with any 50,000 new, November-written words. You're strongly encouraged not to start with an old project, is all, and only because it tends to be demoralizing and stressful. --Masamage ♫ 20:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not according to the source  But then again, they are not gonna check. -- The Red Pen of Doom 22:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I say bah on that. NaNoWriMo has a pronounced Ignore All Rules thing going for it. :) Anyway, I think Chris Baty states it as not-a-rule-per-se in his book, which is probably what I was remembering up there. --22:24, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You will have to gain consensus that ignoring WP:V for this point on this article improves the encyclopedia.(ec) -- The Red Pen of Doom 23:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No I won't, as this is not and should not be mentioned in the article at all and is a tangent from the original question. --Masamage ♫ 00:22, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Unless anyone has any particularly strenuous objections to my doing so, I'm going to change this. The statement is simply not true: The website FAQ is pretty clear that to officially "win" you must write from scratch. It's not even a suggestion, as some FAQ items can be. It's "Yes, you have to write from scratch". There will be some updates added upon site relaunch this October that will clarify actual rules for winning the challenge (and yes, it is a self challenge, but stating that the rules say something they don't is still factually incorrect.)  If no material objections are made by that time, I will update this section and include the appropriate reference. Dragonchilde (talk) 18:26, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Per your revelation on your user page, and your note here that you are associated with NaNoWriMo, it would be inappropriate for you to do much, if any, editing to this article per WP:COI. If you feel the statement should be changed, please note the sources here and what you feel is incorrect and allow neutral editors to make such changes.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Will do!  I don't mind not editing - Was not planning on making any changes at all until solid sources are available either way, so with luck someone will take up the banner on that one! --Dragonchilde (talk) 19:07, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "or simply write the first fifty thousand words of a novel which may require more text to complete" 

message: According to an article in the Bastrop Daily Enterprise, as of October 2008 26 participants have sold their NaNo novels for publication. It also notes that 20% of the participants are novelists and professional writers. Might be useful for some non-NaNo sourced content. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source/Results 

message: Per WP:NAME#Prefer spelled-out phrases to abbreviations, shouldn't this article be named National Novel Writing Month rather than the abbreviated NaNoWrimo? The official name is the full "National Novel Writing Month" not the short form. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in this instance, that guideline conflicts with WP:COMMONNAME. Six of one half a dozen of the other. -- The Red Pen of Doom 18:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps, but of the two, National Novel Writing Month is more understandable and recognizable to people who don't participate. If you are talking to someone about it and you say "I'm doing NaNo or NaNoWriMo" no one has a clue what you mean unless you already talked to them about it or they are participating themselves. "National Novel Writing Month" conveys at least something. Also, if we look at it primarily from the view of sources, "National Novel Writing Month" has slightly more Google News hits than "NaNoWriMo" which would seem to indicate that both are commonly used. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

text: I'd say go ahead and expand it per the first guideline. "NaNoWriMo" isn't really a different or distinct enough name for me to feel like which one is more common really comes into the picture (unless there was a very, very significant difference, which there doesn't appear to be). They're essentially the same name, but one's shorter, and one's more meaningful. Of those two considerations, I lean more toward the latter. --Masamage ♫ 19:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont object - the reasonings above seem valid enough, as long as the redirect is saved. -- The Red Pen of Doom 00:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely agree. Gotta have the redirect. --Masamage ♫ 01:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Oh definately! Would basically ask for a move over redirect, where National Novel Writing Month is deleted so then the article can be moved there, creating instant redirect as well :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved.  -- Vary  Talk 05:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gracias! -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 05:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Name 

message: Oh boy....
First off, what are we looking to cite from third-party sources?  A lot of the citations here are either from the official FAQ or quotes from Baty, which I would think should be cited from the official site anyway.  If someone can tell me what I'm looking for I'd be happy to look for sources; this page is probably going to be pretty easy to cite as Nano isn't really obscure.
For the one citation needed tag I see, I'm not precisely sure what about word wars we're trying to cite, but the official #nanowrimo FAQ mentions them  and that's probably as citable as you're going to get--the #nanowrimo chatroom is run by Nanoers who are not part of the official staff.  If we're just trying to cite the part about them being between five and twenty minutes, that part can be removed; that was the trend a couple of years ago, but now they range anywhere from 1 to 60 minutes (the wordwar bot's limits, seen here: ).
Let me know what else is wanted.  That tag's apparently been around a while so if no one gets back to me I'll probably be bold and remove it.  Tiakalla (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If the bulk of the sources are all from the site, then it brings to question whether its notable if not one else is talking about it, hence the need for more third party sources (and really coverage in general). It also really needs a refimprove tag because of the unreferenced stuff, and an infobox. The citation tag on "Word Wars" needs to confirm the whole sentence: that there is an official NaNo IRC channel, and that Word Wars happen. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't be too hard, since it gets mentioned in newspapers and magazines and things from time to time. Just gotta find the darn things. --Masamage ♫ 21:13, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed...I keep meaning to come back to this one to do some source checking/finding but then get distracted :P -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Aye, it does get mentioned in other sources.  In doing a little searching, I found that their media page lists a massive amount of Nano articles.  I can also think of two negative sources off the top of my head, but one's a blog and one's an editorial in an e-zine, so not sure how reliable those would be.  As for the channel, it's on the website , which seems to be the best source, but I'm not sure how to source that word wars do happen.  Do you want one of the links above?  The chat FAQ seems the best (I just noticed it's also linked from the official site, so)  Or like a log of the chatroom showing that wars do happen? Tiakalla (talk) 02:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A chat log would violate multiple policies. If the "wars" aren't mentioned in other sources or in the chat FAQ, the line needs to be removed. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Perhaps the fact that there is a Word Wars forum  where in fact word wars are taking place would be enough? Word wars are not solely the realm of the chat room. Dragonchilde (talk) 18:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, same thing. Forums are not reliable sources. Their existence in either place is not enough to make it worth mentioning, nor can it be claimed that they are "official" without, at minimum, NaNo itself saying so. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. I do know the Young Writer's Program, at least  has an official word wars "game" link right there on the front page. There's not, to my knowledge, any specific mention of the word wars on the adult site other than the forums themselves. (and in fact, that forum was mostly created just to stop the word wars from filling up other forums!) -- Dragonchilde (talk) 19:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Off the top of my head, I know they're sometimes mentioned in the official podcasts, but I can't cite an episode number and the show notes aren't thorough enough for me to find one without re-listening to the whole back catalog.  Chris Baty does mention the word wars forum in his pep talk emails from time to time as an option for those who can't get to an in-person 'write in' event.  (Nov 17 08 for one.) If we were just talking about threads being created by members of the forums, that wouldn't do, but as it's a dedicated subsection created by the organizers which participants are specifically encouraged to use, I think we can safely call it an official part of the program.  The problem is which source to use inline in the article; the description of the official site's word wars subforum gives the most information, while in Baty's comments one is generally expected to already know what a word war is.  But if there are objections to using the 'official' bits of the forum as sources (that is, things written by the organizers, as opposed to members), do we use one of Baty's mailings, which only source the existence/endorsement of the 'wars' and not what they actually are?  Or both? -- Vary | (Talk) 02:08, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations.... 

message: Sorry for the drive-by.  Here are a few sources that might help get rid of that references template:
* http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=835782 - an interview with Chris Baty on NPR
* http://www.spacejock.com.au/NaNoWriMo.html - a page by Simon Haynes, author of the Hal Spacejock series.
* http://www.websnark.com/archives/2005/11/what_good_is_na.html - an article on Websnark
--203.33.164.137 (talk) 02:15, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Writers Digest listed NaNoWriMo as one of it's 2008 best sites if that helps. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 09:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some cites 

message: Does anyone know how NaNoWriMo is pronounced?  If so, could he add it to the first paragraph.  Thanks. Theresavalek (talk) 16:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, as its subjective and irrelevant. Pronounce it however you want. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

text: I think most people pronounce it that way, and again, the pronunciation of the abbreviation is trivial at best. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

text: If you can work out the IPA notation for the pronunciation I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to add it, Teresavalek.  But I don't think the article is terribly lacking without it.  -- Vary | (Talk) 02:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  pronunciation 

message: I propose to merge the content from the Chris Baty article into here, since I do not believe that article can stand on its own.  His only notability comes from starting NaNoWriMo. Justinm1978 (talk) 02:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Support the merge. Despite the IP's assertion, Baty is not notable beyond NaNo. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger Proposal 

message: From WP:ELOFFICIAL - "More than one official link should be provided only when the additional links provide the reader with unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites."  I see nothing in the rule cited in the first removal WP:EL, of which WP:ELOFFICIAL is a sub heading) that says you can't add the twitter link.  Am I missing it?  -- 68.33.14.248 (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Twitter feed does not provide any unique content and is purely a social networking link. The very next sentence of the guideline you are quoting uses that exact example - do not add Twitter links just because they exist. Stop readding a link that has been disputed as inappropriate. Further, read the talk page along with the guideline page. Just because the template exists does not mean you should put it on every article. It was nearly deleted because of people inappropriately doing just that. Twitter feeds, in general, should only be added if they are the only official site of a company or person. This one is not and is not even particularly relevant considering even NaNo itself doesn't really promote it much. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:26, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twitter feed 

message: If it's international rather than national, it should be renamed InNoWriMo.
213.48.46.141 (talk) 12:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The NaNoWriMo forums have a post concerning this debate: .  Unfortunately, you need to deal with this debate over at NaNoWriMo, not here on Wikipedia.  Matthewrbowker (talk) 20:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

text: My mistake, I misunderstood your post.  Matthewrbowker (talk) 00:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  InNoWriMo 

message: I'm fairly new to discovering this event, so obviously I came here to get a (hopefully) succinct overview. The introduction, the section before the table of contents, doesn't have the actual month in which the event takes place. It mentions July, but only to say that the event started in July 1999. I'm assuming that's the month? Was the explicit mention of the month an overlooked item or left out for some reason? --Alan daniel (talk) 09:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It takes place in November, which is mentioned several times in the rest of the article. Thanks for pointing out that this is missing from the lead; I've rephrased to add a mention there. Princess Lirin (talk) 22:04, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Intro 

message: I think that the JK-12 version of NaNoWriMo, should be a separate article that is linked back to this one. http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/ Bye, have to get back to writing my novel! Cniesen (talk) 18:18, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  YWP NaNoWriMo? 

message: Out of curiosity, does anyone know of any sources on the demographics of participants in NaNoWriMo? Anecdotally, I have the impression that they're overwhelmingly female, but perhaps I'm mistaken; I just wonder if there are any statistics on who takes part in this. Robofish (talk) 12:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics of participants? 

message: I read from the webpage of Digital: A Love Story that it was a "pre-NaNoRenO" game. It sounds a bit like NaNoWriMo, but it takes place in March, and deals with visual novels (expanding the abbrev.: National No(?) Renai Month). Should that be included somewhere? --017Bluefield (talk) 04:12, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How would you define notable?  There are a lot of events beyond those related to storytelling that came out of this?  NaNoSweMo (National Sweater Knitting Month) for example is notable in the crafting world, but should it be mentioned here? --LibraryGurl (talk) 19:19, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  NaNoRenO? 

message: In looking at the list of winners that have been published, I found that two of them, The Benefactor by Vito Genovesehttp://www.amazon.com/Benefactor-Vito-Genovese/dp/1468045970/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351613933&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Benefactor+vito and Murderous Creatures by Dorian Grimeshttp://www.amazon.com/Murderous-Creatures-Dorian-Grimes/dp/1468158848/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351613957&sr=1-1&keywords=Murderous+Creatures, were published by "CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform", which is a division of Amazon.com that does print-on-demand books. This is highly indicative that the books were self-published.  Absent any evidence of notability, I think those entries should be deleted from the list. --EricJamesStone (talk) 16:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Winners 

message: Which nation?
Koro Neil (talk) 11:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''National''' Novel Writing Month? 

message: I am proposing this entry be changed to one about the Office of Letters and Light, the parent nonprofit for NaNoWriMo or that a second entry be started.  This would allow us to better organize to focus the entry on the difference between the organization and the various programs it runs.  Thoughts? --LibraryGurl (talk) 13:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Office of Letters and Light 

message: I put this on the talk page associated with the IPs that have been editing the entry today, but I also posting it here incase said editor doesn't see it.  Please stop adding the book A Fighting Change to the NaNoWriMo entry.  I am the editor who keeps removing it.  That list is for significant or notable books and is not a general list of books started as NaNoWriMo projects.  If you read the source code for that section, you will see a note that says the following:  Please don't include vanity publishing anything here should be *notable* – ie have had reasonable sales. Unless you can verify, with a source, that the book is notable, please wait until it is notable and then add it.  Wikipedia is not a promotional tool to sell a book and this book is only a month old.  --LibraryGurl (talk) 22:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable book addition 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on National Novel Writing Month. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081006113749/http://www.nanowrimo.org./eng/node/402737 to http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node/402737
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091019184724/http://www.nanowrimo.org:80/eng/node/402672 to http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node/402672
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 03:44, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have been editing this page for a class project and I ran into a problem with The Office of Letters and Light section under Programs. The original citation is a dead link and I haven't been able to find any evidence to back up with is written on the page. I am having trouble finding anything related to The Office of Letters and Light and everything I'm finding has conflicting information. Does anyone know of sources to add or have a new link for the dead one listed? I was debating just deleting most of the information under the section, but I couldn't find anything that even backed up that NaNoWriMo became an official non-profit. Anyone have any ideas or solutions? Imaginelly (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Office of Letter and Light Citations