Talk:Close-mid back rounded vowel

message: The Ukrainian language doesn't have final devoicing. I reverted the example back. -Iopq 23:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final devoicing 

message: What about the Spanish "o"?  Why isn't that here? 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:46, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Scroll down to the second table.  It's there.  Spanish o is a mid vowel.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spanish

message: This vowel sound is used in Cockney in words like thought. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 17:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it open-mid or mid? — Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 19:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is either a close-mid monophthong  or a narrow diphthong . Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 14:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Cockney

message: I'm not an expert in IPA but the Eau in réseau is not pronounced anywhere near the vowel sound in yawn. Eau is pronounced just like saying the name of the letter 'O' in English, and, in American English at least, the aw in yawn makes an 'ah' sound, like in on or awning. It's completely different. I looked at the Korean example for clarity (I know hangul) and it was an identical sound to the french, therefore it seems that the English one is just... off.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by LizzieMack (talk • contribs) 18:44, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: American aw is much more open, it's an open back rounded vowel (or an open back unrounded vowel, if you have the cot-caught merger). The closeness of aw in some dialects can cause speakers of other dialects who are unaccustomed to such pronunciations to intepret it as an oh sound, and think that they're gonna fly to Oakland, US when their actual destination is Auckland, NZ. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 18:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  What dialects of English do that? There is a clear difference between Auk/Oak and aw/o in both British and American English. If I were to say yawn with the same pronunciation as réseau it would be yone not yawn.  I understand that I know much less about the IPA that I need to to make this argument intelligently, but I know that eau and aw don't make the same sound. Wouldn't toe or open be better English language examples of this IPA symbol? LizzieMack (talk) 19:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  They're listed in the table: Australian English, Cockney, New Zealand English, Received Pronunciation and South African English. In Australia, "toe" is  or , in Cockney it's , in New Zealand it's , in RP it's  or  and in South Africa it's . In each case it's distinct from "tore"  (or, in Cockney,  since  doesn't occur in final positions in that dialect). These dialects have undergone a kind of a chain shift that's absent from American English, in which "toe" is  or  and "yawn" is  or . Obviously, more vowels are affected than these two. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 19:22, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, but then why is General American English in the list because we don't use O for yawn?LizzieMack (talk) 20:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

text:  lol, now I'm realizing I read the chart wrong! Thank you for your paitienceLizzieMack (talk) 20:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  No problem. "Yawn" can be  (roughly "yoh-uhn") in Middle Atlantic English (New York, Philadelphian), though. It's a unique feature of that dialect area. But nobody would confuse that  with an "oh" sound because it almost sounds like "oh" in reverse. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 12:31, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  English Example can't be right 

message: The audio sample can't be right. It sounds more like close back rounded vowel /u/. See this video and this one. – Ranching (talk) 01:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it's too rounded, but it is . Cardinal  is not only more close but also more front (by necessity - I know that back cardinal vowels are 'as back as possible') than cardinal . This, if anything, sounds like an overrounded  to me. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 09:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can kinda hear it better with headphones now, but it still sounds unusual. Very different than on the videos I linked, don't you agree? Please note I'm not in any way an expert on this, I'm just posting my observation. – Ranching (talk) 13:22, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  The first video is alright, the second one is very bad. The author is confusing the phonemic transcription  with an actual diphthong , which he doesn't have in his speech (his  clearly doesn't start with  but more central and/or more open than that). Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 13:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see. But what about the isolated  that he pronounces afterwards (3:41)? And do you think the current audio could be better, or the overroundedness is perfectly fine? I've asked three of my non-expert friends, and all of them hear something between /o/ and /u/ in the article. Is that how the sound should be? Because in the videos above I can clearly hear /o/. – Ranching (talk) 15:08, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio Sample