Talk:Linear B

message: i had tried to add a new link, that is considerable important for this article and the Mycanaean greek article, but, a stupid bot, deleted it several times. i give you the link for your consideration, that i think, and many of us i suppost, is extremely relevant:
Glossary of Linear B  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hans soplopuco (talk • contribs) 19:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Hans, you present us with a problem worse than the Palmer-Boardman dispute. If this pdf were accessed from an allowed source, then I for one think it should be in there, as it seems to be scholarly, taking material from scholarly sources. But you aren't telling us everything. This file is being published from a commercial site selling tourism services. It lists a number of interesting articles but they are not distinguished from the tour guide business. Everywhere you look it is buy this, buy that. I have allowed (every editor has the power to delete except for entire articles) linked articles to stand when published by a business provided you can get to it without going through their website and it does not talk about the business. Not so in this case. Who shall we say published it? Now, if you look at the pdf, there are only a few pages of vocabulary items. The whole dictionary is many pages. So, what the author is doing is offering us a small taste in order to get us interested in his business (or his employer's business). There is no evidence that he is a scholar in the field. I do not know why the man behind the bot (there is one you know) targeted this link but right now I would have to agree with his decision on the ground that it is inextricable from the commercial site. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a collection of commercials no matter how appealing to the intellect. That is about the best I can say buddy. If you want to make an issue just keep putting it back on the grounds that you were not given any reasons. Make sure you keep us posted in the discussion here. You need to use the cite web template, which unfortunately will expose the publisher. There is an appeal process but my guess is after a few times back an administrator will take a hand. What does everyone else think? What is the judgement of public opinion such as it is found here? Feel free to chip in, people. Keep the link or no and why?Dave (talk) 02:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

text: PS. The original link was to a tour guide business. This link is to a personal site, which is just as bad. That means it is not an encyclopedic source. Blogs, personal sites, things of that nature, aren't allowed. Who is that author and what is his claim to authority on Wikipedia?Dave (talk) 02:38, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: i want to add a important link, but

message: I would admit that I don't know Linear B.  But if it is as described as "poor compliance with the phonemic principle" and is partly syllabic, with additional logographic signs that are "determinative", or "designational" (yielding "classes", and "types"), it is more like Chinese than Japanese.
The Japanese kana is pure syllabic and forms complete words while kanji (literally, Chinese word) is imported complete word.  The interleaving of kana and kanji serves as word delimiter since Japanese does not have "space" as modern European languages.
A significant numbers of Chinese words are phonemic with determinative, though most of them are poorly compliant with phonemic principle.
To claim that Linear B is like Japanese is to say that Linear B consists of phonemic symbols interleaving with foreign words such as Egyptian hieroglyphs.
-----
I can't read any of the signs on this page.  I think we'd need images for all the signs, since most people viewing this page will not have the appropriate fonts installed. Pfalstad 05:44, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I know. Unicode Linear B is hardly supported by any system. If you can find a copyright-free image, or create one yourself, it would be  most welcome dab (ᛏ) 09:33, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: I think that my phrase was quite bad and I certainly won't insist on it, but your wording greatly weakens the archaeological significance of the deciphering and doesn't show a united Greek world of the Mycenean times. My view is that more than  "that a Greek-speaking Minoan-Mycenaean culture existed on Crete", the deciphering of Linear B showed a united (at least culturally) Greek world in the area. Evans thought that the Cretans and Myceneans were enemies of different cultures. Linear B showed that they were the same tribe. This also unites them under a common civilization, with the Cypriots and the Ionian coast, where we also know that Linear B and A was used. It appears you're a native english speaker, would you consider another go? --Spryom 09:51, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Is Linear B like Chinese or Japanese?

message: The important role of the Cypriot syllabary in the decoding should be described. (See Chadwick, John (1958). The Decipherment of Linear B).
:see :Template:sofixit :o) dab (ᛏ) 13:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cypriot Syllabary 

message: Emmett L. Bennett, Jr., had a lot to do with the grid which led to Ventris's solutions.  In the books about the decipherment, in the index Bennett is mentioned more times than Kober.  I'm not a scholar, so cannot provide an article.  I do have a personal bias here, as Emmett is my oldest brother.  But I think the bias is worth paying attention to.
Myron Bennett--72.49.92.221 20:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume you mean Chadwick The Decipherment of Linear B (CUP), in which Bennett is mentioned 12 times, Kober 7. I'll look into it, as I have a copy to hand - and thanks for mentioning your personal bias.--Nema Fakei 21:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, he's in for the beginning. I think Blegen deserves a mention too, and I'll look at both their subsequent contributions during the decipherment process. Thanks for pointing this out!--Nema Fakei 21:59, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thanks Myron. I learned recently that Bennett was still alive and I was totally astounded, as he knew everyone worth knowing who is deceased now. Bennett was a leading figure when I was just learning some Greek. If this were Japan he would be declared a national asset. These Wikipedia articles grow by successive revision. I have seen articles so stupid I just threw up my hands in despair but sooner or later something appeared there that could be worked with. Vandalism was a terrible problem for a long time but they seem to have it more under control now. What I am saying is, eventually Bennett should show in just about every Linear B article.Dave (talk) 01:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bennett left out 

message: This isn't really about the article as such--it's about how to read the article. I can't see the Linear B glyphs, possibly because I don't have the right font. I get a weird symbol, the same one for all the glyphs. So I'm curious which font I should obtain. I also notice that the glyphs aren't templated, and it seems like there ought to be a template similar to  or  for Linear B script. --Akhilleus (talk) 03:03, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To answer my own question, the font Code2001 () has Linear B characters, and works on Windows and OS X. Additional fonts can be found here. That page is specific to Windows, but the same site has pages on fonts for OS X and Linux/Unix. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I get the usual beautiful array of square boxes. Can somebody upload some images, please? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried installing the necessary font files, but in IE it still shows up as square boxes. In Firefox, however, I see all the cool symbols. I have IE set to Unicode encoding but still no go. — BRIAN0918 • 2007-06-22 12:44Z
Same problem here, I have downloaded and installed these fonts, but still what I see is just boxes...
Kapnisma ? 18:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: O damn, I use Firefox and after installing the font I don't see the usual question marks (the Firefox equivalent for square boxes) but instead I get a lot of identical sort-of-hooks. Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 19:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm using Firefox and Safari 3.0.2, and I see the proper glyphs on both. (This is on OS X 10.4.10.) --Akhilleus (talk) 14:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yo listen up, this may work for you, i had the same problem viewing Linear B here. In fact, μουπρηξετ@@μεχρινατοβρω, it took me 5 long minutes which is far more than my attention span. so. 1. you go there  and download the Aegean .otf file. it's called Aegean font and it's the Linear B syllabary font  2. you Go to Start > Control Panel » Fonts  and install the font by moving/copy-pasting the Aegean .otf file you downloaded in the window "Fonts" that you'll see already has many .otf files. i don't know about internet explorer problems, i use firefx3, IE and google chrome and this worked in them all, for me..i used to see boxes with 4 tiny numbers insidei also propose a link to these sites>[] & []to be put in the article -somehow-, as a solution to viewing problems, as wikipedia does to other possible media problems in articles ..CuteHappyBrute (talk) 06:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Technical assistance? [glyph problems] 

message: where is a reference to Cyrus Gordon's work showing that Linear B is Semitic? - 4.249.198.63 
:There isn't one, presumably because Ventris' decipherment has rendered it obsolete. You're welcome to include the book's details in the bibliography, and include a note in the appropriate section that Gordon tried to prove it was Semitic. Are you sure it was Linear B he claimed was semitic, not Linear A? --Nema Fakei 09:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was in fact Linear A, as I happen to have his main books on the subject. His approach is totally etymological; he picks out a small repertory of place names he believes were linked to Semitic equivalents. The possibility is not dead yet. In any case, not relevant here.Dave (talk) 16:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing 

message: *Finish updating the logograms/ideograms to include the 3/4 letter transcription approved by CIPEM.
*Do the weights and measures 
*Either complete the logograms/ideograms or note that it is not complete
*Sort out the reference to AGS
:i.e. Aravantinos, V. L., 2001, Godart, L., Sacconi, A., Thèbes, Fouilles de la Cadmée I. Les tablettes en linéaire B de la Odos Pelopidou. Edition et Commentaire, I, Pisa & Rome
*Add to transcribed additional syllabic signs their LB graphemes
Updated: Nema Fakei (talk) 11:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I changed it. If you can think of a better way just change it. I know a British pound sign follows and the dollar sign precedes so I thought that part was unclear. The intro is pretty well written; in fact, the whole thing isn't bad at all. I'm just giving an edit therefore, except for the expansion. The reader ought to know what, when, where and why. I jump around a lot so I won't be here too much longer, maybe too long already. I won't get all the work done. By the way I'm not getting any symbols on my reader, just little lines and boxes. Is that just me? The Deutsch Wikipedia has a template, LinearB, for putting in symbols and it seems to work. I won't be doing that this session.Dave (talk) 11:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: PS No, I don't know the answer to your question. I must say also I am not working from the latest; all I have are Ventris and Chadwick, Bennett about the time of Wingspread, Ruijgh, decipherment and a few other things on the Knossos tablets. So, I lack a lot of the 3-4 letter abbreviations even though in most cases I can get the Latin name from Ruijgh. Ventris does not like Latin names and Ruijgh does not like abbreviations. If you know what they are, put them in there will, you? But don't guess, of course. ThanksDave (talk) 12:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: PPS Well I've been probing around and the first thing I notice is the CIPEM site, which I had hoped would lead into some modern charts of what CIPEM has been doing. Well I don't know very much more than when I started except possibly Palaima is interested in Dylan and Willie Nelson; in fact, for a moment there I thought I was on a folk-music site, although what relevance Bob and Willie now have to anything whatsoever much less Linear B I do not see at all. Moreover Palaima seems to be using the site to sell his anti-war ideas. It seems as though something is still wrong in Texas. If you follow down the CIPEM links they are almost all dead and the rest of them lead nowhere. Just what the h. is Palaima doing over there and why is HE in charge of the site? Then I read that Cynthia wants to know where we go from here. Where does she want to go from here? I'm sure there are lots of places to go if anyone might be interested in going there. I always knew classics could be dull. For myself I would like to see Linear A finished up but apparently we can't do that without a new set of fundamental assumptions as the old ones are pretty old now and have had no result. The CIPEM site leads ultimately to a great bibiography but it has one drawback. None of it is accessible and none of it is for free. Apparently CIPEM never heard of Google Books and reviewability. Someone wants to make sure only the rich or a hereditary caste of classicists can read their stuff. The social net designed to keep the wrong persons out wraps around them like a fishnet and keeps them all in or wrapped up or whatever. That being so I am afraid I cannot check us against the very latest. Somewhere in the stuff I have read Ventris complains that the sword is more of a dagger. That is as far as I can go. Nothing that might enlighten me can be reviewed on Google or costs less than $250. Why, when the Decipherment came out, it was a paperback I think you could get for a quarter! There are a couple of libraries I can visit if I can find a place to park but that will have to wait. So, it is up to you! I can only help out with some of the work but you will have to edit at least for now. What I would like to see is a chart that tells you everything you would otherwise have to take a $3000 classics course to learn or buy a few thousand worth of books to find out. So, for now I am going as far as my notes carry me and then you or the next person will have to take up the story while toasting marshmellows by the fire.Dave (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Todo 

message: Ah, forgot about JAC and HAS being two different things. The latter is Unicode D8, 𐃘. Thanks for picking that up. On *233=PUG, the minutes and resolutions of CIPEM in (I think) 1972, which I was working from, it being the last full signary published, has *233=PUG, 234 (the single bladed version) unnamed - do you know when it was changed? 
As to the ideogram going at the end of the line, I am afraid I can't think of a single example off the top of my head of an ideogram that does not precede a numeral, with the exception of tablet breaks, so I don't follow your edit to that sentence at all. --Nema Fakei (talk) 00:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I changed it. If you can think of a better way just change it. I know a British pound sign follows and the dollar sign precedes so I thought that part was unclear. The intro is pretty well written; in fact, the whole thing isn't bad at all. I'm just giving an edit therefore, except for the expansion. The reader ought to know what, when, where and why. I jump around a lot so I won't be here too much longer, maybe too long already. I won't get all the work done. By the way I'm not getting any symbols on my reader, just little lines and boxes. Is that just me? The Deutsch Wikipedia has a template, LinearB, for putting in symbols and it seems to work. I won't be doing that this session.Dave (talk) 11:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: PS No, I don't know the answer to your question. I must say also I am not working from the latest; all I have are Ventris and Chadwick, Bennett about the time of Wingspread, Ruijgh, decipherment and a few other things on the Knossos tablets. So, I lack a lot of the 3-4 letter abbreviations even though in most cases I can get the Latin name from Ruijgh. Ventris does not like Latin names and Ruijgh does not like abbreviations. If you know what they are, put them in there will, you? But don't guess, of course. ThanksDave (talk) 12:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: PPS Well I've been probing around and the first thing I notice is the CIPEM site, which I had hoped would lead into some modern charts of what CIPEM has been doing. Well I don't know very much more than when I started except possibly Palaima is interested in Dylan and Willie Nelson; in fact, for a moment there I thought I was on a folk-music site, although what relevance Bob and Willie now have to anything whatsoever much less Linear B I do not see at all. Moreover Palaima seems to be using the site to sell his anti-war ideas. It seems as though something is still wrong in Texas. If you follow down the CIPEM links they are almost all dead and the rest of them lead nowhere. Just what the h. is Palaima doing over there and why is HE in charge of the site? Then I read that Cynthia wants to know where we go from here. Where does she want to go from here? I'm sure there are lots of places to go if anyone might be interested in going there. I always knew classics could be dull. For myself I would like to see Linear A finished up but apparently we can't do that without a new set of fundamental assumptions as the old ones are pretty old now and have had no result. The CIPEM site leads ultimately to a great bibiography but it has one drawback. None of it is accessible and none of it is for free. Apparently CIPEM never heard of Google Books and reviewability. Someone wants to make sure only the rich or a hereditary caste of classicists can read their stuff. The social net designed to keep the wrong persons out wraps around them like a fishnet and keeps them all in or wrapped up or whatever. That being so I am afraid I cannot check us against the very latest. Somewhere in the stuff I have read Ventris complains that the sword is more of a dagger. That is as far as I can go. Nothing that might enlighten me can be reviewed on Google or costs less than $250. Why, when the Decipherment came out, it was a paperback I think you could get for a quarter! There are a couple of libraries I can visit if I can find a place to park but that will have to wait. So, it is up to you! I can only help out with some of the work but you will have to edit at least for now. What I would like to see is a chart that tells you everything you would otherwise have to take a $3000 classics course to learn or buy a few thousand worth of books to find out. So, for now I am going as far as my notes carry me and then you or the next person will have to take up the story while toasting marshmellows by the fire.Dave (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logograms 

message: The last sentence in the paragraph headed "Decipherment" doesn't quite make sense:-
 "...and presented Greek in writing some 600 years earlier than what was thought at the time."
I don't really know what the writer means, or I would amend the ending myself...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.66.122 (talk) 13:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: it means the Linear B script which was proved to be Greek language showed that the Greek language was written in the 15 century BC, as opposed to the earlier evidence of the time before Linear B tablets were found, that it was firstly recorded in the 9th century with the Greek alphabet. 
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_written_accounts.
CuteHappyBrute (talk) 18:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A very minor point 

message: Under "Arthur J. Evans' classification of scripts", a sentence near the end says, "His life was finished in 1941..."  What does this mean?  He died?  Or should it read "His life work was finished"? Mcswell (talk) 16:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: He passed away in 1941, and I'm guessing the author would have said to if it was just his life's work. 64.124.38.140 (talk) 13:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another minor point 

message: The tablets are not enciphered.  Translating them should be called translation, not decipherment.A.times.B,equals (talk) 01:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In real life, the word decipherment has the meaning, among others, "2. To find out, so as to be able to make known the meaning of; to make out or read, as words badly written or partly obliterated; to detect; to reveal; to unfold." [1913 Webster] Whatever it should mean, it is being used with a standard English meaning when we speak of deciphering the tablets, and Google Books has many examples of it being used in exactly this context.--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, but Chadwick's own book is called "The Decipherment of Linear B". – ukexpat (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Hello buddy. Ventris was a code-breaker during the war and one of things they used to do is "decipher" ancient scripts (or try to) for fun and practice. I dare say they ought to have practiced more often. So that is how Ventris got to use the term. As far as the general meaning is concerned, sorry, but the language has got past you and is now zooming away into the future with you still looking backward. Well Mr. Bellamy, any rendition of thought into language is now encoding and any comprehension of it is decoding. You can probably thank AT&T for that (and MIT). Any rendition of communicative signs into or out of a standard is encoding or decoding and encipherment or decipherment (which started with numbers or ciphers) is only a form of coding. The signs sure do code the language and reading the language sure is a decoding although you are right in one sense, that decipherment originally meant the first readings. But the convention is well-established so quit looking backward and let us hear no more about it. You can't rewrite English on your own (unless you are one of a handful of men).12.4.26.248 (talk) 17:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objection 

message: Grumach and Beattie denied that Ventris's work was correct.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.146.16 (talk) 11:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Give us [a] break, hey? Why don't you go to the next convention in Paris and explain all that? Until then, be the strong, silent type.12.4.26.248 (talk) 17:54, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See the Talk page of the article on Chadwick. The numerical argumentation has not been replied to by anyone.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.63.54 (talk) 08:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Chadwick tried to reduce the 343,000 figure, without much success.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 09:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Denial 

message: Top-notch idea! YES is my vote. This is one of those extended topics Wikipedia handles very well by its lists. It WILL get longer, much longer.12.4.26.248 (talk) 16:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed split

message: I object to your summary removal of Greek text and replacement of it by transliteration. Please restore the Greek text. Thank you. -- Evertype·✆ 08:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yes, putting the Greek in is one way to go. Not everyone reads Greek so I usually put in the transcription instead of the Greek. However, if you want the Greek, by all means have it. I was thinking of consistency. If the Greek goes in in one example it should be in all examples. That is a bit more work. I am sure you would agree examples enhance the article. Similarly the Linear B character would be definitely an enhancement. Thanks for your suggestion on that, DAB. There is no way to get around it, this article is taking a lot of work. I would say, if you feel inclined to contribute further on it, that would push us along a bit further. My goal for this pass was a general clean-up and enhancement of what was there, including updating, formatting and supplying refs. I can work on these suggestions but currently in only small chunks of time. I may have to be back on other passes. So I thank you both for your suggestions; the problem is getting it done. I will put the Greek back; maybe the inconsistency will stimulate others to assist.Dave (talk) 10:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek is allowed 

message: I cleaned up this section based on what it already said. We should call these what they are. If they are logograms that are called ideograms within the LinB community for historical reasons, then we should say that (as I just did). However, Emmett Bennett (what a name!) says they actually are ideograms: they were not used as logograms in texts, but rather in inventories, and did not have phonetic values. We have something similar with Egyptian, a logographic script that uses ideograms rather than logograms for numerals. I don't know myself, but if Bennett is correct and these are ideograms, then we should not use the word logogram at all, except perhaps in a clarifying footnote. kwami (talk) 18:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for weighing in. The professionals are in fact convinced they are ideograms. Chadwick was Greek linguist.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.4.26.248 (talk) 21:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

text: That previous comment was me on another computer. To go on, actually we have encountered a bigger topic than a sentence (maybe a paragraph). Are they ideograms, logograms, why, what would be the diff, is the terminology still valid, was it ever valid? I need to come up to date myself. I already said I was going to defer working on this until after the move to another article. As the logogram article has a references tag on it also this is likely to become more than a clean-up. So in the interest of objectivity and in the spirit of inquiry I hope no one takes it personally if I put a cite template on the question until someone can do the look-ups and cite the literature. This section I notice has no refs so it will need some. If you want to beat me to the question by all means do!98.216.127.219 (talk) 02:56, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A Greek linguist would not necessarily know the difference between a logogram and an ideogram, esp. when the decipherment was made: at that time Chinese characters were commonly called "ideograms". The Bennett article in Daniels & Bright makes it pretty clear that they actually are ideograms, but I wanted to make sure. I'll take him as authoritative and convert to 'ideogram'. kwami (talk) 19:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Outstanding.Dave (talk) 02:53, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ideogram vs logogram 

message: I thought this section needed to be enhanced because in summarizing the decipherment process in one paragraph or less, Internet editors, who all copy wach other, in copying would guess at facts not stated by the original author and over time the accumulation of guesses amounted to a total myth. At this point I can see that to present the milestones in the process giving due and accurate credit to the major players is really the subject of another article, so that is what I am suggesting, another article. I wanted to call it Decipherment of Linear B but there is a book by Chadwick of that name and this is not about Chadwick's book so I thought of the one I suggested. Now I have to leave it alone for a while so that you can react.Dave (talk) 13:33, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose the suggestion to split this into two articles. -- Evertype·✆ 19:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Decipherment split

message: Does anyone know in what direction the script is meant to be read?
I read on a website#REDIRECT that it was Boustrephedon, but I have not been able to verify this.
Hacksaw45501 (talk) 06:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Direction of Script 

message: Hello, everybody.
I've started the article about Aegean numerals. Because most of you are expert in this subject, i request you if you can cooperate expanding it.
Thanks in advance.
Crazymadlover.  —Preceding undated comment added 13:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Help 

message: Hello, everybody.
I've started the article about Aegean numerals. Because most of you are expert in this subject, i request you if you can cooperate expanding it.
Thanks in advance.
Crazymadlover.  —Preceding undated comment added 13:25, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Help 

message: I worked on this article some time ago. I think it is time for a revisit. I can;t say precisely when - soon. Some preliminaries have to be done on other articles. What I notice about this is, the issues are not the same as before. Before, I was involved in controversies about what characters and codes to use in representing the script. The ones another editor wanted to use did not work except on some software, and it looked as though he was trying to sell stuff that was not the best. WP and browsers have gone on since then. Now everything seems to work, so there is no need to go back there. I switched to Firefox myself. I do notice that the article is getting out of control. I agree with the outline. There is a serious question of what goes under the topics. The two most objectionable sections are the one on Arthur Evans, which is heavily referenced, and the controversy one, which is way underreferenced. They both say a lot of things that are not relevant to the article, and don't say it very well. I recognize some of my writing in there, but it did not end up as intended. What have they done to my song, ma! And finally, the references are quite a hodge-podge of formats, most not really acceptable. What I plan to to then is start standardizing the cites. At least hslf the Evans material should be under the biography of Evans; for example, we don't care here what he did in the Balkans. I just happen to have a book or two on the controversy. Best not to make too many controversies. Frankly the language part of it I think is looking good for such a short article. The boxes - too many, not a good design. We need a good design. So, when you see me coming, calm down. I won't make any changes I do not explain. No need to erase my work as I type at 5 in the morning, as happened last time. Basically I will be interested in relevance, style and formatting. I expect to condense.Dave (talk) 02:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops! Hmn, I did write the controversy section. Not that good, is it? Sorry. I will rewrite it. I'm not so sure it goes right there. Belongs under the date of the tablets. I have not forgotten it. I will be back soon. As I recall I left the ideograms unfinished also. I willl check that out. Might need to offload onto another article, "Linear B ideograms." Controvery was so acrimonious before that I just assumed someone would pick this up and finish it. It only goes to show you, never assume.Dave (talk) 02:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It was Joey Roe who tagged the section. Thanks Joey. I realize not I could not have written all of that, but I had fixed bad writing with bad writing. I'm tending now not to try to fix bad writing, just to trash it, mine included. I went over it again. It think it is encyclopedic now. If I'm wrong, tag it again! I took out the 2010 tag. That doesn;t mean I accept the article by a long shot. I did cut out the personal material on MacKenzie and Evans. That material unviperized would go in the articles on those men. I'm not done yet! But progress is slow.Dave (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Impending revisit

message: The problem with with Evans as decipherer is that he did not decipher. He did classify. But, he did not do any of that in Bosnia and Herzegovina; in fact, he never even saw the script until he bought some sealstones just before his wife died. He sort of lived two contiguous lives, one before her death and one after. Some see in it the hand of Providence, but I refuse to say that Providence took away his wife. Anyway the article on Evans now contains most of the personal material on Evans and will contain more, as well as citations to Scripta Minoa, his opus magnum on the script. I do not think the personal material belongs in an article on Linear B, especially as it takes up so much space, while the true decipherers get a few sentences. I realize this will involve removing the refs on the life of Evans, but they don't belong there anyway. Furthermore, those refs are now in the article on Evans. So, these are my reasons for making such large cuts. That material manifestly belongs elsewhere, where it now is. This material is mainly duplication. I think I will just copy over the citations to Scripta Minoa for the BibliographyDave (talk) 20:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The Arthur J Evans section

message: Is not Linear B. Hittite currently has the record. Here's the statement removed:
"and this is properly the oldest Indo-European writings."http://www.science20.com/news_articles/tablet_discovery_pushes_earliest_european_writing_back_150_years-77650
You are not to blame, editor. Please don't take it to heart. The source is wrong. I got no doubt it meant to say the oldest Greek. It generally is better not not to use these hoaky web sites as encyclopedic articles, but then, it put itself forward as a "news" article. I don't want to sound cynical but all the other newspapers are hoak city as well. The biggest hoax of all is their claim to be bringing the truth to the public. If you want to see what they really are doing, cast a critical eye on the morning TV "anchor." Anchor? To what? How much of that sells and how much really relates anything purported to be telling us fact? Morning TV is pure commercials, beginning to end, even the so-called "news." How do you protect yourself from an outright lie? I wish I knew. Look at what they make. People do not get that money for telling the truth. The only thing you get for that is shot. No, they get that money for their entertainment, just like WP. If you can shock, Jock, you're in the dock. That is what the removed article is trying to do.Dave (talk) 01:09, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That source doesn't say it's the oldest writing of an IE language. It says it's the oldest written record in Europe. Hittite was not written or spoken in Europe. 2604:2D80:D50A:F300:0:0:0:BEF (talk) 18:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Oldest IE

message: It seemed best to me to keep all the chronology together, so we don't have to go hunting thru the article for it. Also, "Cretan scripts" does not quite describe it. On the table of "Cretan scripts", no need to make that sortable. There's nothing to sort, the table having only three lines. There are some other format questions on that table, but I defer that.Dave (talk) 13:32, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline table

message: Could someone with knowledge of the subject please add some more information about the dating of the various tablets? As in, what methods have been used to date them? How reliable are they? Maitreya (talk) 09:43, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dating of Tablets? 

message: The section discussing Alice Kober appears to be copied directly from her obituary in the New York Times. 66.57.57.61 (talk) 23:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alice Kober Section 

message: An article from 1999 describes Linear B as having been deciphered.  Your article closes out with a 1935 conferences.  That's a lot of missing history and very important history too.  The article I found is: Bennet, John, and Jan Driessen, A-na-qo-ta.  Salamanca: University Press, 1998-1999.  https://www.academia.edu/653834/Kretes_and_Iawones._Observations_on_Ethnic_Identity_of_Bronze_Age_Cretans
71.163.117.143 (talk) 17:10, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete 

message: Scripta Minoa by Sir Arthur  Evans is on Internet Archive.
71.163.117.143 (talk) 13:09, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links available 

message: Hi, please forgive this intrusion by an ignoramus. After the first grid in this page comes a section entitled Special and unknown signs saying "...the first edition of Documents...". I realise this refers to what all you subject experts know is the seminal Ventris/Chadwick work  Documents in Mycenaean Greek which I understand first appeared in 1956, and the Sources section refers repeatedly to a later edition of this (1973) which is cited in the Bibliography. But I think this bald reference Documents is the very first on this (Linear B) Wiki page, and to the less informed reader like me, it seems unexplained. Possibly this is just the accidental result of earlier text editing. May I suggest that readability might be improved if this text is expanded slightly or if earlier mention is made (perhaps in the opening paragraph The Script) of the work with its full title, the date of its first publication and its significance. AconUK (talk) 09:31, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivial cross-referencing matter 

message: Use your search engine with "linear b" and "Pasiphae".  Since 2010 a number of PDFs have been posted free online about use of Linear B at Thebes, Pylos, and Sparta.  They are very enlightening and the fact that it was used at places besides Knossus for several centuries makes it a real language of a widespread culture, not just a curiosity  from a limited location.
108.18.136.147 (talk) 15:37, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome to expand the article provided you have reliable sources, and that you are not talking about WP:FRINGE theories. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Widespread  use of Linear  B 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Linear B. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140430051031/http://www.archaiologia.gr/en/blog/2013/12/12/linear-b-in-bavaria/ to http://www.archaiologia.gr/en/blog/2013/12/12/linear-b-in-bavaria/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090211081315/http://www.mansfield.edu/~art/papyrus1_stephanie_stambaugh.htm to http://www.mansfield.edu/~art/papyrus1_stephanie_stambaugh.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090101104332/http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/classics/history/bronze_age/index.html to http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/classics/history/bronze_age/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Possibly to improve this article, the mention of its predecessor Linear A could be brought up a bit more. I thought it did a good job describing the basic structure of the script and how it worked. There were many outside sources that provided more history to the script and they were readily accessible. I do think that everything in the article pertained to the subject, but I think that there was information that could have been left out. For example, the section on Alice Kober's triplets was not very necessary. Also, everything seemed to have a neutral opinion, which is good.
Raeitesfazghi (talk) 17:54, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linear B Article Suggestions 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Linear B. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Can I ask why the following statement was added to this Wikipedia page with a citation?
"Butthurt jew and human wannabe, Saul Levin of the State University of New York considered that Linear B was partly Greek but with an earlier substrate, in his 1964 book The Linear B controversy reexamined."
I do not understand how something like this can be added to a page. Sgtandrew1799 (talk) 22:06, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple vandalism. In future you can revert the offending edit yourself. In this case it was reverted as you were writing this message. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 22:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antisemitism in Article 

message: Ventris considered Sumerian before considering Etruscan. See https://www.umass.edu/wsp/method/philology/gallery/ventris.html 2A00:23C7:9985:1701:D552:5C9D:9E78:8F76 (talk) 16:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sumerian