Talk:Schengen Agreement

message: I understand that customs and passport control are different. However, being British, we do not (yet) have id cards and any official who may request id must be given my passport, even if they are only customs.
I rented a car in Germany (German plates) and drove to the Danish border near Flensburg. I passed the "Danmark" sign, the road surface changed and thought that I would see no border control at all. However, a Danish police or customs officer flagged all the cars I could see (prob not the ones with Danish plates) and me into a picnic area where I voluntarity presented my passport and complied with requests for a quick rifle thru my suitcase for drugs etc. Then I went on my way.
After the Oresund Bridge you land in Sweden and go through the toll booths to pay for using the bridge. A short distance after the booth I was flagged down by a Swedish customs officer to whom I again presented my passport before being asked for it. I expect Swedish/Danish cars are not flagged down. After a couple of how long/where/why questions I was allowed on my way.
Crossing the border from Sweden towards Oslo there is a toll booth for the motorway but no customs for cars, but I think there is a lane for trucks.
So there is customs control and stopping of traffic at both these borders which are both internal to the Schengen area. This is quite proper and I think a good idea, but doesn't the article at least IMPLY that there are no controls at all.
It still seems to depend a lot on the car, the plates and the time of day. Swiss border points are almost always guarded. Eastern European cars get a lot more attention and are made to leave the queue and every piece of luggage is searched. But then they are often economic migrants with ALL their posessions. --81.105.243.17 (talk) 00:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There are controls, especially at the Swedish side of the Oresund bridge. You had a little bad luck because from my experience there are rarely controls at the other mentioned borders. After the german-danish border you had a police control, not customs control, since in Denmark drugs is a police matter, not customs matter. They are checking local cars also, but some nationalities and personal looks (like dark skin) is little more suspicious than other. --BIL (talk) 11:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As pointed out in the "Customs controls" part of the article, stops are permitted as long as they are not "equivalent to border controls", which means that a person is stopped at or near the border merely for crossing it. However, checks based on police intelligence (also profiles) are still permitted - in some jurisdictions (e.g. Bavaria) even on all transit routes. Or, to take another example, the German Federal Police is entitled to ask anyone present at a German airport or train station for indentification (but not more, they may, e.g., not search a person without proper reason). In other jurisdictions (e.g. the German state of Nordrhein-Westfalen), police may not ask for identification without a suspicion, but they may check the drivers license and vehicle papers of any driver without further reason (leading persons to identify themselves), and may require the presentation of the mandatory warning triangle (which allows them to have a look into the trunk, as the triangle is usually stored there). Thus, police know many ways to perform legal inland checks. And those are considered mere inland and not border controls, being subject to the local police laws. It could also happen to anyone to be pulled over on London Orbital. However, I cannot count how many times I had passed Schengen internal borders, and I have never been checked there. --DanSchultz (talk) 22:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

text:  Sweden systematically breaches and breaks international treaties, conventions and agreements. Since 2015 the train traffic over the Oeresound bridge is halted for bordercontrolls. Even if such rarely takes place since 2020 passangers are still warned and terrorised of their possiblility by announcement and a uncalled for delayed stop at the first station in Sweden. 
[Sweden also activly breaks the treaty of the European Union through activly promoting and selling nicontin pouches, refusing to introduce or even allow use of €uro. Sweden breaches the Vienna convention on diplomatic relations through policesupported and court allowed desecration of Quorans outside muslim embassies. Worse is the breaches of the Geneva convention and the UN Mandela rules on treatment of prisoners where one lets many people die of dehydration and hypotermia in isolated slammer cells in custody without trial or counsil.]
CS 03:30, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Denmark and Sweden 

message: Switzerland is now a member of the Schengen zone.--Ami in CH (talk) 06:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Switzerland 

message: Could include note on Schengen uniforms: search this article 161.76.193.214 (talk) 11:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniforms 

message: The article says about Switzerland "Initially border controls of travellers with a schengen visa will be lifted only for roadways, while for airways the controls will be lifted on 29 March 2009, subject to certain conditions." I know Switzerland has major international railway links. (Waterways may also be an issue, but a significantly lesser one.) --NE2 09:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can provide links to articles, but they'd be in German. This article describes what will change in Switzerland because of full Schengen membership. For railways in particular, see this article. --Ami in CH (talk) 22:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you fix the article? --NE2 10:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. I changed  "road border crossings" to "land borders". Controls have been lifted for all land borders, be it roads, railways, footpaths, ferries, swimming across the Rhine or whatever. TiffaF (talk) 07:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Would "surface borders" be better, since a river technically isn't land? --NE2 07:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  EU terminology only knows land, sea, and air borders, an I think this is common usage everywhere, at least also in the U.S. (DHS refers to land borders and not to "surface borders"). --DanSchultz (talk) 11:52, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  A lot of (but certainly not all) European borders crossings are at rivers. I've been to the Netherlands a few times and have always been asked to show a passport at the ticket office when buying international (i.e. to Germany) train tickets and at the last station before the border the Dutch police boarded the train and asked to see everyone's passport/ID card. Oddly I've been able to buy tickets to the Netherlands and Poland from machines in German train stations without any interaction with the authorities ? 86.166.76.47 (talk) 00:08, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The real border control was performed by the police at the border. The railway company might have asked for passport/ID in order to avoid delays at the border, and maybe even penalities.--BIL (talk) 15:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about railways? 

message: The inclusion (or not) of Kosovo as a country in this article should be related to its formal position in the Schengen world. Since the declaration of indepenendence, I do not know what has happened with passports etc. There used to be a dual system with UNMIK identity travel documents and Serbian passports (which most Kosovars refused to touch). If this has changed, then it would seem reasonable to call Kosovo a country, although maybe some note about the administrative arrangements would be in order.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.129.195.216 (talk) 18:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Greece is the most pro-Serb country in the EU, so it is hardly typical. I do not know if a Schengen visa can be issued to a UNMIK travel document. Somehow, I doubt it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.229.168 (talk) 21:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kosovo, border controls and Schengen 

message: There seems to be little if anything in the article on criticisms of the Schengen Agreement.  There must be arguments against it; what are they? --Richardrj talk email 10:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Some criticisms can be found here: http://www.ewi.info/pdf/VisapoliciesinSee.pdf  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.229.168 (talk) 12:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is criticism from the United States. They build walls, fences and expensive security systems against their neighbours. Free and unchecked movements of European citizens are very suspicious to them. That is why they always fiddle around in our inner affairs, and why they treat Europeans like criminals at their immigration counters .... --84.141.7.157 (talk) 12:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are the United states be interested in how European countries conduct their internal affairs ? Theres no more need for border controls between Austria and Italy than there is need for border controls between New York and New Jersey. 86.166.76.47 (talk) 23:58, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism? 

message: Do citizens of Schengen-states need a passport to visit Switzerland, Norway, Iceland? Inside the EU they can travel only with ID-card, but what about non-EU Schengen states? 199.64.72.252 (talk) 13:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's absolutely the same. A ID-card (or passport) is necessary but there are not systematic border controls within Schengen (EU + non-EU, except in the airports for security reasons) and there's free movement of persons. In the case of Switzerland, they maintain only border goods control (being outside European Customs Union and European Union Value Added Tax Area where there's a free movement of goods). I don't know for goods in other Non-EU Schengen countries (like Norway and Iceland which are EEA members...). For the movement of persons between Switzerland and EU, before Schengen and from many decades there was only checks of ID-cards, following previous agreements between EU, single member countries and the Confederation. --Dch (talk) 08:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Switzerland - passport requirement 

message: I propose to split this article. I think this article's quite large, but this isn't the real reason I'll like to split it. I really think we should have an article on the Schengen Area. That article could concentrate on the current rules and extent of the area, while this article could concentrate on the agreement itself and their history. — Blue-Haired Lawyer 12:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Very good suggeston. Fully support the idea. BritishWatcher (talk) 12:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  While it is good to have a separate Schengen Area article, exactly how is the content of each defined? Doesn't the border rules under area come under Agreement such as much as Area. I think some clarification is needed here.- J.Logan`t: 11:03, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree there is a fair possibility of overlap, but I'm pretty that the Agreement is basically an artefact of history. Post-Amsterdam new member states don't actually sign the Agreement. This article should eventually become an history article, while the Schengen Area article documents the current arrangements. — Blue-Haired Lawyer 23:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

text: good, so now there are two articles. Problem : the map illustrating the Agreement isn't relevant neither to the situation at the time of the signing nor the current situation. Besides, it contradicts a variation of the same map illustrating the article Schengen Area. Herix (talk) 22:11, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed article split 

message: The article currently states that "when travelling by air between Schengen countries, or within a single Schengen country, identification (usually passport or national ID card) is requested at the airport check-in counters." This is not true in general; at least on some Swedish SAS routes passengers can travel without being identified. A passenger with checked in their luggage, must however prove that he or she also boards the plan by providing a matching fingerprint scan at check-in and boarding. 
The article further states: "Also, the nationals who need a visa for Schengen countries are asked to present it together with a valid passport. Although immigration control is generally not applied at points of departure or arrival (essentially, the flight is classed as 'domestic'), this lower form of border control is performed at airport check-in counters." Here, a reference supporting this claim would be most welcome. 
Filur (talk) 16:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Air security 

message: if the internal borders within most of the EU countries are lifted anyone knows why EU's maps still show countries with borders?--Melitikus (talk) 14:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borders 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events/2009_December_19 ...
*Serbians are able to travel to continental Europe without a visa from this day on. (The Independent)
"Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro were put on what is known as the "Schengen white list" on 30 November, which permits their citizens to travel anywhere in the Schengen visa-free zone and stay for up to 90 days." per http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/at-last-serbs-win-passport-to-freedom-1845113.html  99.24.249.96 (talk) 15:01, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? "Schengen white list" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/at-last-serbs-win-passport-to-freedom-1845113.html 

message: The article just said that it was signed in a boat anchored in Schengen in Luxembourg.
News sources say that it was signed in the middle of the river, see e.g. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4738063.stm
The BBC article emphasises that the river forms the border between Luxembourg and Germany. Their article omits to mention France in this, but given the extremely close proximity of Schengen to the point where all three borders meet, and the obviously highly relevant symbolic importance of this, I don't think it is too much of a speculation for me to conclude from the reported fact that it was signed mid-river that the exact point was the one where the borders all meet. In fact, it is really pretty much inconceivable for it to have been otherwise. So that's what I wrote.
No name is good name (talk) 18:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where it was signed 

message: Schengen Wall redirects to here. It most probably refers to the notion of Schengen visa to be a hindrance for non-EU nationals to enter the EU, like a wall - and maybe it is a reference to the Iron curtain... Anyway, I think we should have some "reactions" section were the various positions should be shown (positive and negative agreement). Alinor (talk) 05:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I think POV redirects are allowed. — Blue-Haired Lawyer t 14:06, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schengen Wall 

message: *Support Same infobox, same problems as the Schengen Area article. Why not merge these two? --E4024 (talk) 21:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *Support I strongly support it too. The two articles are same. No need to keep this one. Free ottoman (talk) 22:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose  With the schengen area coming from an agreement which in now within EU-law (but which was not) it is useful to keep two articles… L.tak (talk) 21:53, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Schengen Area 

message: I would like to draw your attention to this discussion here about the Schengen cooperation being an enhanced coopertion. --Glentamara (talk) 09:18, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Schengen cooperation is actually an enhanced cooperation 

message: Gibraltar appears to be joining the Schengen Area as part of the UK-Spain deal on its status per Financial Times "Spain and UK agree deal to keep Gibraltar land border open" ( https://on.ft.com/3rHCLNl )
How do we want to handle this? When the treaty is ratified do we want to add the UK to the Infobox as a party, Gibraltar, or none?
IntUnderflow (talk) 00:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK - Spain Gibraltar Deal