Talk:Socialist Unity Centre of India (Communist)

message: The article on Socialist Unity Centre of India has a number of factual errors and subjective comments of the author. Readers are advised to refer to the official website of the party www.suci.in
An SUCI supporter
19th May 2005
:so in such case; exactly which are the so-called "factual errors and subjective comments"? --Soman 15:40, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your contributions are valued, but at wiki one needs to try to write from an outside perspective. Claims needs to be backed up by sources. For example, the notion that "only communist party of the Indian soil" is of course something that is bound to be disputed by many other sections of the Indian left. In change, you could write "SUCI considers itself as the only genuine communist party in India". Moreover, the terms 'Comrade' is not a term to be used, as this is used within the party. The same goes for ephitets as 'Shri' (which followers of other Indian parties like to induct in other articles). Thirdly, the language cannot be as bombastic as in the current version (drops of blood, etc.). That is appropriate in a party pamphlet, but not in an encyclopedia. --Soman 10:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: After the counter-revolution in the erstwhile Soviet Union and other East European countries, our party in its endeavour to defend communism and Marxism-Leninism reinvigorated its ideological-philosophical movement, took powerful initiatives to regroup and rejuvenate the world communist movement and, as a first step, undertook the task of developing a mighty, militant anti-imperialist movement throughout the world with the real communist forces combining in its core as its driving force.
The SUCI vows to uphold the banner of socialist revolution and proletarian internationalism with every drop of blood of its leaders and cadres.''
The current SUCI general secretary is Nihar Mukherjee. SUCI has a webpage and the party publishes Proletarian Era, where the imperialists and US warmoners are often criticised. The party has excellent contacts with international communist parties as well. 
not only NPOV, but complete communist propaganda.  --Constanz - Talk 13:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Listed for deletion

message: I don't see any problem with the article now in terms of NPOV/POV. —Sesel 17:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "POV" 

message: User:Kuntan tries, for reasons difficult to understand, to remove a passage that specifies that SUCI considers itself as the only communist party in India. To understand the character of SUCI as a political party the thesis of SUCI that they are the sole communist party in India is highly relevant, since it conditions the relations of SUCI towards the rest of the Indian left. --Soman 14:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...isn't obvious that other communist groups in India would not agree to that thesis...? --Soman 15:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I've rewritten the description of how the party positions itself and its ideology, with some extra details and a specific source citation.  All of this is seems relevant to me; what good is an article about a political party that doesn't describe its political positions? Wikipedia doesn't need to rebut every claim described in an article, though if there are reliable sources describing a notable response to the party's platform, then including that might make sense. CDC (talk) 21:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-identification of SUCI 

message: :I really don't see any reason to change the term 'mural' in the text. At least not to 'graffiti'. 'Graffiti' generally refers to something quite different, implying that it is a form of vandalism. Usually, 'wall-paintings' is the general term in Indian politics, but for me 'mural' is more or less synomynous to that. --Soman 15:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may read the article mural, and find out that it refers to the exact same phenomenon. --Soman 10:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we obviously have different interpretations of this. Of course boundaries are not always exact. For me  is a mural, whereas  is graffiti. For me the SUCI wallpaintings fall in the former category. --Soman 13:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attention Soman 

message: The neutrality aspect. At the given moment what we have posted is a very brief description about SUCI. We have also not put in our party website material straight away. The flag will be repalced with a static one soon. SUCI India
We are we as though it is an individual who is editing the text at the moment, it is as a collective decission. So Mr. Kuntan don't worry about the grammer. SUCI India
I have put the NPOV back.  User:SUCIIndia deleted it without any discussion.  After the edit of User:SUCIIndia it is a clear POV article.  Statements like "This led him to organize SUCI strictly following the Marxist methodology with a handful of compatriots", "These preconditions being fulfilled in the course of a relentless ideological, philosophical, political and cultural struggle over several years, the SUCI emerged through a founding convention on the 24th April, 1948" , "As the continuer of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao Zedong, Shibdas Ghosh contributed to the growth and development of the world communist movement; a fact asserted by the international collaborations that SUCI has with other communist parties world wide.", "As with every revolutionary party, innumerable SUCI cadres and leaders have been victims, are still being victims of state terror, brutal repression, imprisonment, and assassination.
"etc. are not only POV but not verified as well.  You can say SUCI claims so and so, but this is different.  Please revert this to an earlier acceptable version and remove the tag. Clt13 10:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding Kuntan's comment, he should study the electoral archives at . SUCI were registered for some elections, but not at this point. Currently the party contests elections only through independent candidates. Furthermore Kuntan seem to have no idea of the irony of first stating that a comment is not worth replying and then write a reply. --Soman 09:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:   user:SUCIIndia is welcome to wikipedia.  Please understand that an encyclopedia is not the place to settle questions like whether a party is the only communist party or whether fascism is better than communism.  You can try to put " Marxism is a science of all" in the page for Marxism and perhaps even claim that it was formulated by Mr. Ghosh. But it is not part of any wikipedia policy and any discussion cannot be made based on that.  Please also see the policy "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought"WP:NOT. I think that your comparison with  E=MC^2 is silly.  Einstein did not publish his result in his personal website and asked everyone to accept it as proof.  No one with any familiarity with the process will not expect any to believe such claims.  Results are subjected to peer review, submitted to independent expert referees and is then published in independent journals which is again open for review.  I think this issue cannot be subjected to such a process.  If you think otherwise, please give its details.  It would then be a very interesting wikipedia article. Clt13 04:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: User:Suciindia has claimed in his/her last series of edits that SUCI was not formed out of a split from RSP, which is in contradiction to my own understanding of the history of the party. It would be interesting if User:Suciindia could share more details about the pre-history of the party, since it could not have emerged out of a political vacuum. --Soman 15:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formation of SUCI 

message: User:Suciindia has objected to the description of the party as a 'minor party'. I think that such an assertion should be looked at the backdrop of a comparison between major parties in Indian politics (BJP, Congress, CPI(M), BSP, etc.) and minor ones. However, the intention of my wording was to point that although SUCI is not a part of the political mainstream (it lacks MPs at the moment, has MLAs only in one state), it is highly active in a variety of states. --Soman 15:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor party? 

message: see . --Soman 15:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is definatively relevant to discuss the situation in Joynagar in the SUCI article, since the area is the single area in entire India where SUCI is the dominant political force. It is also highly notable that, perhaps not to yourselves but to a wider readership, that there is a conflict between the locally governing communist party and the communist party in control of the state government. Why not put it on CPI(M) article? Well, CPI(M) loses hundreds of cadres every year all around India, the Joynagar feuds is just one of many violent confrontations the party is involved in. However, its bad that the comments on Joynagar are only focused on negative issues. More should be written about the recent political history of the area, and how SUCI developed into the local dominant political force there. --Soman 09:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, i hoped you could shared some light on the issue. --Soman 12:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

text: User:SUCIndia, please don't try to hide criticism.  Please do not remove verifiable relevant content.  This is an encyclopedia.  You cannot say that "We don't want to divert our attention or a reader's attention to such issues".  Let the reader decide where to focus attention.
Dear Mr Soman, It is just not criticism that you are posting here. According to Wiki it is supposed to be an encyclopedia, which implies that it gives brief and relevant information about what ever is there in. And the mishaps in Joynagar or else were is just irrelevant an info. If you insist, then you should have the same attitude to all political parties and should have a section Political Violence in all those pages. From your previous message it is evident that you consider the loss of CPI (M) as part of their so called path to revolution while ours us some politically motivated act to gain what ever you thing that we gain. We are not happy that we lost lifes, whether it is of our own party members or that of any one. If such mishaps could have been averted we would have. Your own citation about SUCI's denouncment of naxal movement is an excellent example for this. --Suciindia 06:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joynagar 

message: This passage should be introduced in the article at some point:
"One of the major campaigns of the party in West Bengal has been its agitations against the educational policy of the Left Front state government. The decision of the Left Front government to remove English from primary education in xxx (1981? 1982?) sparked a mass movement led by the SUCI for the reinsertion of English." With some further elaboration of the current stand on the issue.
Related links: , , , 
--Soman 12:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bengal education issue 

message: Much more needs to be written about the history of SUCI. Some topics that ought to be covered are:
*Its early history, pre-foundation history
*Electoral history, 1952 electoral understanding (see , material at www.eci.gov.in)
*SUCI during 1962 Indo-China war (see )
*SUCI in United Front governments in West Bengal
*SUCI and developments in China (analysis of Cultural Revolution, response to emergence of Naxalite movement)
*SUCI during Emergency.
--Soman 12:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of SUCI 

message: An article, out of which material could be added to this wikiarticle, at www.cgnet.in/N1/suci/html2pdf. --Soman 14:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article 

message: Dear Comrade Soman, 
Our party has noted that you are doing  great service to the communist movement by gathering and presenting valuable informations here. We are very much and deeply thankful for your committed efforts. But our party has now taken care of this article and decided to have it state truth in simple and clear way. So our comrades all over the country will be adding and improving informations here. So please don't remove informations thus gathered by our comrades through painstaking struggles and studies. Although comrade Soman is deeply involved in his heart in communist history and practice our party noted that he is still having some misconception about our great proletarian party, SUCI and its great leader Comrade Shibdas Ghosh. Please contact our comrades to get correct information about us. We expect comrade Soman to cooperate with us. Thank you. Khudiram
Dear Editors,
We are not interested in having anything about violent mishaps that we went through in this document. It is just part of our struggle and if we had any chance to avert them we would have. Our approach towards blind violence in the name of revolution is clear from our denouncment of the naxalite movement itself (see the article cited by Mr. Soman in the previous section). The reason for not agreeing to that piece of text is that it will divert the attention of any new reader who is trying to understand us. Our purpose of contributing to this article itself is that we want it to serve as a simple but good enough text for readers to be introduced to SUCI. Such minute details of our struggle will be known to people irrespective of it being stated here, once they are ready to know us closely. So please don't try to put the text back. Hope you will understand this. --Suciindia 20:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that a passage about Joynagar ought to be included in the SUCI article, as it is the only place in India where this party has MLAs and control over municipal administration. In that context local conflict with CPI(M) cannot be avoided to be mentioned. However, I have previously stated that it is sad the the current text focuses only on negative aspects on the Joynagar situation. I would appreciate if user:suciiindia could expand the passage on Joynagar in a way that the text would look more balanced, and give an historical background. However, simply removing the passages (with its sources) is not the way forward. --Soman 06:45, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For favour of the reading of other Editors 

message: :Image:Sucipe.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sucipe.jpg

message: regarding , some things should be noted;
*Whilst it would be preferable to have independent academic sources rather than the suci website, replacing suci website sources with no sources at all is not an improvement. For the statements 'suci considers itself the only genuine communist party in india', 'It rejects political ideas such as glasnost and perestroika as revisionist' or the Nihar Mukherjee became GS in 1976, are claims were I'd say the suci publications can function as source.
*There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing lists of publications, state committee secretaries, historical events, etc.
--Soman (talk) 12:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent edits 

message: "SUCI denounced the court ruling as a 'conspiracy of CPI(M)."
As if CPI[M] made the verdict. How can people insert such silly allegations in an article and pretend that they are balancing it? Lujaven (talk) 18:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the silly allegation is cited.  Presumably SUCI made the allegation, so (no matter how silly you believe it is) it can be referenced.  By way of example, if Joe Bloggs blamed a US Supreme Court ruling on "a conspiracy by elements of the New Zealand government" that could be cited in the Job Bloggs article, even though it should be clear to anyone with any understanding of (a) the USA and (b) New Zealand that the New Zealand government has minimal influence over any aspect of US law.  Put another way, people read this article and see that SUCI made this allegation; readers do not automatically believe the allegation.  Hope that helps,  This flag once was red  18:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, I have been trolled.  I was replying to a sock-puppet of a banned user.  This flag once was red  19:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  silly statement 

message: regarding the labelling of suci as "small", it is still a matter of judgement, even if that judgement is expressed by a journalist. Fact remains that SUCI has tens of thousands of activists throughout india. in india that is small compared national parties like BJP or INC, but in absolute numbers SUCI is bigger than many other communist parties around the world. --Soman (talk) 23:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Without really going in to the big or small debate, I am curious to know the source behind SUCI's tens of thousands of activists. My idea was tens of hundreds of activists would be a better appropriation. Shovon (talk) 07:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  small 

message: Hey all, I see this (User:59.91.253.225) who ever it is, to be editing an mutilating this page about SUCI by pasting personal vengance against this party. I wonder why he is doing so. I am not personally associated to this party, but know them through the Nandigram events (please see my edits in the Nandigram issue). I suspect this person to be a puppet of User: Kuntan. I am not an experienced editor so, please see to it that he is stopped from putting up simply defaming statements. Everything reported by the media is not truth any ways. --Radhakrishnansk (talk) 10:47, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The IP editor has acknowledged being a banned editor, probably User:Kuntan. Please ignore comments by banned editors, and especially do not be baited into becoming uncivil yourself. Tendentious contributions to this article from the IP range may be presumed to be from that editor and may be removed on sight, likewise such edits to Talk showing similar behavior. --Abd (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Vanadalism by a Puppet of Banned User:Kuntan

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Socialist Unity Centre of India (Communist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081012153414/http://www.ganashakti.com/jb/part41.htm to http://www.ganashakti.com/jb/part41.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090410021735/http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/SE_1967/Statistical_report_WB1967.pdf to http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/SE_1967/Statistical_report_WB1967.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Socialist Unity Centre of India (Communist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090410020356/http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/LS_1967/Vol_I_LS_67.pdf to http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/LS_1967/Vol_I_LS_67.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20160116235843/http://www.newindianexpress.com/magazine/article62216.ece to http://newindianexpress.com/magazine/article62216.ece
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090410022835/http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/SE_1969/StatReport_WB_69.pdf to http://eci.nic.in/SR_KeyHighLights/SE_1969/StatReport_WB_69.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified