Talk:Tom Sawyer (song)

message: Merge to Moving Pictures (album)? Philwelch 20:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: comment

message: One website says "as his skies are wide", but another website says "as his eyes are wide". I hear "eyes". Which one is
it?
:Hi. I just looked at the CD insert for the remaster (Core Music Publishing (SOCAN)) and it says: "...Maybe as his eyes are wide." The second site you visited had it right--great argument for second opinions!CPRdave 21:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it says both. First time says, "eyes are wide", second time around it says, "skies are wide."--216.101.11.66 19:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics question 

message: Maybe add something about the song being included in the Harmonix video game Rock Band?
:No trivia. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, many pages have trivia that needs be removed. Thank you for your insight. Carl.bunderson (talk) 06:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: WP isn't an indiscriminate collection of information. How is the song's use in various parts of pop culture important to the song. From the WP: handling trivia page: "Some trivia is actually important to none of the subjects it connects. The mention of Beelzebub as an enemy in Devil May Cry is of little importance to the topic of Beelzebub, a devil whose name is mentioned in a great variety of context. Similarly, that Beelzebub is the name of an enemy in Devil May Cry (a featured article) is not important enough for mention in the article on the video game (in fact, neither that article nor any of its subarticles mentions specific ordinary enemies.)" I really think this falls under this category. Please demonstrate its notability before re-adding. Carl.bunderson (talk) 18:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Lately, there's been a slew of IPs who keep reinserting the random line about Tom Sawyer being featured in rock band. I know, it's true, it's factual and kinda neat, but really it's just kinda thrown in there. I'd like to keep the WP:TRIVIA in this article to a minimum. So, just for future reference, I will most likely revert (not revert war) the addition of this information and direct any user to this discussion page for commentary. Wisdom89 (T / C) 20:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video Game Inclusion 

message: On the Rush page, there is an audio clip of Tom Sawyer.  Shouldn't that just be moved to this page.  It would make more sense to have the clip on the song's page instead of the band's page. Thhhh (talk) 23:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted and has been added. Nice suggestion. Wisdom89 (T / C) 21:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Song Sample?

message: If Geddy is the bassist and singer, how did he play synth as stated in the article? Or did someone else play and who? frogTape (talk) 02:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it was, and still is him. His rig consisted of various keyboards, foot pedals, a mic and of course his bass. When not playing the keys, he'd play bass and hit food pedals with his feed. When not playing his bass, he'd rely on his left hand to hit bass notes while fingering keyboards with his right. Wisdom89 (T / C) 02:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geddy Lee 

message: *Mindless Self Indulgence covered the song, which can be heard on their 2005 album, You'll Rebel to Anything.
*The song was featured on the soundtrack to the reimagined Halloween by Rob Zombie.
*In Futurama, the cartoon series, Fry is shown with an all Rush mix tape, and whilst he is playing an arcade game he is listening to Tom Sawyer.
*The song is featured Band in the hit video game, Rock Band.  
—Preceding comment added by EarthBoundX5 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you moving this section to the talk page so that we may discuss this issue. I invite all editors who monitor this page to offer their opinions on whether the above content should be included in the article. I see the cultural significance that the list is trying to prove, but, it really should be done in prose format, and definitely read less like miscellany. If it can't be, then I'd venture to say that it really doesn't belong. Wisdom89 (T / C) 21:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Appearances in other media are useless. It does clutter the page with information of questionable notability, and opens the floodgates for more useless facts. Please remember, WP is not an indiscriminate collection of facts. Carl.bunderson (talk) 02:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If the anon user wishes to read further about this, see what wikipedia is not. Wisdom89 (T / C) 07:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Why do you think that? Wisdom89 (T / C) 03:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

text: By itself, I'd say it's simply miscellany. Listing various appearances/covers just sets the precedence for the introduction of more trivial information. Wisdom89 (T / C) 17:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK then.  Go and take away any other listings in other media from all of the hundreds of other songs featured in Guitar Hero and Rock Band.  Good luck. Shapiros10 contact meMy work 18:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We've discussed this before. WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reasonable argument. Wisdom89 (T / C) 21:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: As one of Rush's most recognizable and popular songs, "Tom Sawyer" has become a part of pop culture.  The song has been featured in several movies, such as Rob Zombie's reimagining of Halloween and Adam Sandler's The Waterboy and TV shows, like Futurama.  "Tom Sawyer" has also been covered by Sebastian Bach, Mindless Self Indulgence, Disarray, Run for Cover and a few classical musicians and Barenaked Ladies played a small part of the song in "Grade 9". The song was played live on The Colbert Report and is included in the popular rhythm-based video game Rock Band.  
:I can cite any of these facts, but didn't want to go through the trouble until the language was agreed on, seeing as there was some related discussion on this topic before.
:In my opinion, this information is notable as if reflects on the importance of the song in popular culture.  Because of this layout and for this reason, it is not merely trivia or a collection of facts, but an essential part of knowing the impact and scope of the song and also assists in an examination into how society views the song.
:Finally, I would delete the reference to the Colbert Report in the opening and just beef up the mention of it here...it feels out of place in the opening to me (like a randomly placed fact).  Any thoughts?LedRush (talk) 19:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Other than fixing my typos, any ideas at all?LedRush (talk) 15:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be inclined to say that since the airing of the Colbert Report and it's obvious culture significance, we should put your ideas into the article. I like the prose too. Wisdom89 (T / C) 16:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't find it objectionable; you guys might have put it in already, but I would suggest removing Disarray from the list of bands that have covered it, since it is redlinked, and I would say that makes it nn. This is just in the interest of having a via media between no pop culture, and and a cluttered list of trivia. Carl.bunderson (talk) 19:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'm a little averse to have redlinks within the article, it is sourced. On the negative side, I'm not entirely sure how notable the entry is given the fact that we have yet to create an article on the band. For now I'm going to remove it for cleanliness and wikification purposes. Wisdom89 (T / C) 20:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, with the source I'm not dead-set against its inclusion, but at the same time, I don't think that it does, or should, aim to be an exhaustive list of covers. To that end, the more restrictive our standards for inclusion, the better. Carl.bunderson (talk)
If we want to be comprehensive on the use in popular culture Tom Sawyer was covered on Deadsy's "Commencement" album released in 2002.  It is also sampled by Fort Minor for the beat for "All Night" on the We Major mixtape.Whitoflaven (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

text: We are not trying to be comprehensive; rather, the standard for inclusion is that the covering band is notable, i.e., blue-linked. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, no need to enumerate every band/group/artist that ever covered the song, or made reference to it. Incidentally, Deadsy is a notable band. I had included it days ago, but it was removed, probably because there was no source. I think a tracklisting from a retailer would suffice if it has appeared on a released album. Wisdom89 (T / C) 03:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah, I don't think we necessarily need a source for each band; as long as they're notable that's fine. I doubt people are going to add notable bands that have not actually covered the song, since it is so easily verifiable. So if I was the one to remove it, sorry about that. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Tom Sawyer" in popular culture 

message: I see it got removed because it was "unsourced."
I don't know how to source material but I can tell you that the growl was NOT made on the taurus pedals. Geddy Lee used the Minimoog during the 7/8 part (He now uses a Little Phatty-I own one and it sounds almost exactly identical).
The Oberheim OB-X sound is used to create the "growl."
I have played an Oberheim before and here's how you create the sound.
1. Select the preset voice #1.
2. Turn the "resonance" dial about 3/4 full.
3. Turn the "decay" dial about 2/3 to the right.
There you have it!
If you try playing that on a moog or the taurus pedals, it'll sound "thin" because they're monophonic (plays one note at a time) The Oberheim has 8 voice polyphony. Geddy Lee plays 'E' on octaves to create the notes.--Greg D. Barnes (talk) 20:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't doubt your personal knowledge on the subject, in fact, I flat out believe you. However, two things: 1.)Is it really relevant to be included in the article and 2.)Anything that is likely to be challenged/ is unsourced may be removed. What you are describing is plainly original research. Wisdom89 (T / C) 20:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't think that was the point...if you found a reference and blended the new language into the article nicely, it'll probably survive.LedRush (talk) 21:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, LedRush is correct. If you could find a source for it, by all means, put it in. Wisdom89 (T / C) 21:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, youtube is not considered a reliable source. Wisdom89 (T / C) 02:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Growl in Tom Sawyer 

message: Why delete the reference to Disarray?  They have one of the most popular covers for Tom Sawyer...LedRush (talk) 06:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See the discussion above? Carl.bunderson (talk) 06:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disarray 

message: Is it worth mentioning the alternate ending they've been playing when performing live?  The ending has a segment out of Cygnus X-1, am I right?   Gpia7r (talk) 17:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say it is, provided you can source it. Carl.bunderson (talk) 21:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: On this same note, why is the Rock Band version of Tom Sawyer longer than the version in Moving Pictures?  The Rock Band is supposedly from Moving Pictures, and has a fuller ending, that is more similar to the one they play live. I notice the radio and the CD versions always fade out early, is there a place to find the "fuller" version? 216.136.4.136 (talk) 18:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They spliced the riff section right before the solo and placed it at the end. Wisdom89 (T / C) 18:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate Ending Live 

message: Removed the statement "...as the follow-up to their breakthrough hit "The Spirit of Radio." from the article.  It was most definitely not their breakthrough, although it is their highest charting single at #8 in the US.
Based on record sales, arguably, "Hemispheres" was the album with which they first cracked into the big time.  However, some would plumb for 2112.  Either way, it was not "Spirit of Radio" which put them on the map.
PainMan (talk) 04:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Spirit of Radio"  not breakthrough song 

message: Alright, so I see there was a big argument over this song and trivia. I am not sure why, and I'm not here to stir up any bad memories. But, I would like to point out that many of Tom Sawyer's appearances in popular media stem from that ranking. Off the top of my head, both Futurama and Chuck's appearance was based on video games, and based on Nintendo Power's award to it. So, it would seem to be important to at least include this notion in the the trivia for the song. But it's Wikipedia and I know what kind of editor wars can occur, so I'm just gonna throw this one out there and hope someone bites, instead of biting my head off.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.67.27 (talk) 07:17, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 1 Song To Play Arcade Games To, by Nintendo Power 

message: In the cited episode of Archer, Krieger is attempting to learn the drum solo from YYZ. Any Rush fan worth his salt knows that "the drum solo from rush" is a non sequitur. This tidbit has nothing to do with this song and should be removed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.213.128.251 (talk) 07:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archer episode not relevant 

message: Is it relevant that Jimmy Wales chose this song as one of his eight on Desert Island Disks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05vstzl  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.150.97.26 (talk) 08:55, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jimmy Wales 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I read recently that the six-note synth lick that precedes the guitar solo, then becoming the bass line under the solo and finally being doubled by the guitar at the end of the solo started out as something Geddy would absentmindedly play during sound checks. I've not a found a source for this online. Is that in a book or something? A radio interview? Daniel Case (talk) 21:06, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synth part before guitar solo 

message: Does anyone else here get psychedelic vibes from this song?  It certainly sounded like psychedelic music to me, so I was surprised when I first looked this up on Wikipedia and didn't see psychedelic rock listed as a genre.  Moreover, I just watched the music video, and (especially in the beginning and the end) it felt pretty trippy.  Who here thinks we should add psychedelic rock? 2601:C7:C201:C640:9DBD:9DB7:4081:BC78 (talk) 21:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychedelic addition?