Talk:List of ships of the line of the Royal Navy

message: Good progress, but we seem to have lost seventeen years somewhere. There is no reason why 1677 should be a start point for a new section of this article, I suggest you start it at 1660, and I shall add in the missing vessels. Rif Winfield 11:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me.  I had meant to, but must have lost them along the way. Benea 12:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost Years 1660-1677 

message: The following section seems to have been incinerated, and then replaced by a new structure.  Was there a reason?
===List of Line-of-Battle Ships of the Royal Navy (1660-1675)===
The Royal Navy came formally into existence with the Restoration of Charles II (before the Interregnum, English warships had been the personal property of the monarch and were collectively termed "the King's Ships").
:Number of main guns follows name (see Rating system of the Royal Navy)
:These ships listed in the order of p160-162 The Ship of the Line Volume I, by Brian Lavery, pub Conways, 1983, 
===Pre-War Construction===
* Second Rates
** Royal Oak 76 (c. 1664) - Burnt 1667
** Royal Katherine 84 (1664)
===Second Dutch War Construction===
* Second Rate
** Loyal London 80 (c. 1666) - Burned 1667
* Third Rates
** Cambridge 70 (c. 1666) - Wrecked 1694
** Rupert 66 (c. 1666)
** Defiance 64 (1666) - Burnt 1668
** Warspite 70 (c. 1666)
** Monmouth 66 (c. 1667)
* Fourth Rates
** Greenwich 54 (1666) - BU 1699 for rebuild
** St Patrick 50 (1666) - Captured by the Netherlands 1667
** St David 54 (1667) - Sank 1690, refloated, sold 1713
===Inter-War Construction===
* 100-Gun Ships
** Prince 100 (c. 1669/70) - Renamed Royal William 1692?
** Royal James 100 (1671) - Burnt at the Battle of Solebay, 1672
** Royal Charles 100 (1673) - Renamed Queen 1693, renamed Royal George, renamed Royal Anne 1756, BU 1767
* 90-96-Gun Ships
** Charles 96 (1668) - Rebuilt 1701.
** St Michael 90 (c. 1668/69) – Rebuilt 1706 and renamed Marlborough
** London 96 (c. 1670)
** St Andrew 96 (c. 1670) - Renamed Royal Anne 1703, BU 1757
* Third Rates
** Resolution 70 (1667)
** Edgar 72 (1668)
===Third Dutch War Construction===
* First Rate
** Royal James 100 (1675) - Renamed Victory 1691, rebuilt 1695
* Third Rates
** Swiftsure 70 (1673) – rebuilt 1696
** Harwich 70 (1674) - Wrecked 1691
** Royal Oak 74 (c. 1674) – rebuilt 1690
** Defiance 64 (1676) – rebuilt 1695
* Fourth Rates
** Oxford 54 (1674) – Enlarged 1702, rebuilt 1727
** Kingfisher 46 (1676) - BU 1699 for rebuild
** Woolwich 54 (1675) - BU 1702 for rebuild
===Major Rebuilds===
* First Rate
** Royal Prince 92 (1663) – Burnt by the Dutch 1666
* Second Rate'
** Victory 82 (1665) – broken up 1691
* Third Rate
** Montague 62 (1675) – Rebuilt 1698
* Fourth Rate
** Constant Warwick 42 (1675) – Captured 1691
===Captured Ships===
* Ruby (c. 1664, ex-French Rubis, captured 1666) – Hulk 1682, BU 1685
* Stavoren (ex-Dutch, captured 1672) - Sold 1682
* Arms of Rotterdam (ex-Dutch, captured 1673) – Hulk 1675. BU 1703
====Other Captured Ships, where the provenance of the data is unknown====
: The following ships are not listed in The Ship of the Line Volume I, by Brian Lavery
* Golden Lion 34/42 (ex-Dutch Gouden Leeuw, captured 1664)
* Unity 34/42 (ex-Dutch Eendracht, captured 1665) - Captured by Netherlands 1667
* Charles V 44/52 (ex-Dutch Carolus V, captured 1665) - Burnt 1667
* Mars 44/52 (ex-Dutch Mars, captured 1665) - Sold 1667
* (Black) Bull 34/40 (ex-Dutch Edam, captured 1665) - Captured by Netherlands 1666
* Delfe 34/40 (ex-Dutch Delft, captured 1665) - Sold 1668
* Zealand 34/40 (ex-Dutch Zeelandia, captured 1665) - Sold 1667
* Young Prince 30/38 (ex-Dutch Jonge Prins, captured 1665) - Burnt 1666
* Clove Tree 48/62 (ex-Dutch Nagelboom, captured 1665) - Captured by Netherlands 1666
* Seven Oaks 44/52 (ex-Dutch Zevenwolden, captured 1665) - Captured by Netherlands 1666
* West Friesland 44/54 (ex-Dutch Westfriesland, captured 1665) - Sold 1667
* Black Spread Eagle 40/48 (ex-Dutch Groningen, captured 1665) - Sank 1666
* Hope 34/40 (ex-Dutch Hoop, captured 1665) - Wrecked 1666
* Guilder de Ruyter 42/48 (ex-Dutch Geldersche Ruiter, captured 1665) - Sold 1667
* Saint Paul 34/40 (ex-Dutch Sint Paulus, captured 1665) - Sank 1666
* Maria Sancta 42/50 (ex-Dutch Sint Marie, captured 1665) - Burnt 1666
* Stathouse van Harlem 40/46 (ex-Dutch Raadhuis van Haarlem, captured 1667) - Scuttled 1690
===Other Ships provenance of data unknown===
: The following ship is not listed in The Ship of the Line Volume I, by Brian Lavery
* Falcon 42 (1666) - Captured by France 1694
The 1660-1677 section had been lost somewhere, so I created the new replacement. Comparing the two, all ships match except that I hadn't yet got around to listing the rebuildings. I'm quite happy to merge the two - retaining all data except the reference to the Falcon which (like the similar Sweepstakes, Nonsuch and Phoenix) was built in 1666 as a Fifth Rate (i.e. NOT a ship-of-the-line), although it was re-classed as a Fourth Rate in 1668. Give me a couple of days to get around to that, as I'm away today. As regards the original Dutch names of the prizes captured, do we want them included in this table, or should they go into referenced article(s)? Rif Winfield 04:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Incinerated Section

message: : The following ship is not listed in The Ship of the Line Volume I, by Brian Lavery
* Falcon 42 (1666) - Captured by France 1694
The 1660-1677 section had been lost somewhere, so I created the new replacement. Comparing the two, all ships match except that I hadn't yet got around to listing the rebuildings. I'm quite happy to merge the two - retaining all data except the reference to the Falcon which (like the similar Sweepstakes, Nonsuch and Phoenix) was built in 1666 as a Fifth Rate (i.e. NOT a ship-of-the-line), although it was re-classed as a Fourth Rate in 1668. Give me a couple of days to get around to that, as I'm away today. As regards the original Dutch names of the prizes captured, do we want them included in this table, or should they go into referenced article(s)? Rif Winfield 04:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other Ships provenance of data unknown

message: The ironclads of 1860 onwards should NOT be included with the ships-of-the-line. As mentioned elsewhere, the long tradition of sgips-of-the-line came to an end in (about) 1860. The battleship evolved out of the ironclad FRIGATE - the early ships like Warrior were in fact officially built and classified as frigates, never as ships-of-the-line. Rif Winfield 17:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is true.  They're also there because it was felt that a lot of people, including the average reader might be confused about how these ships are classed, whether they are battleships, ships-of-the-line, etc., so we cover them on the different pages to give enough overlap so where there is a gray area, people will still find what they are looking for.  Benea 19:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of ironclad ships-of-the-line of the Royal Navy (1860–1882) 

message: Rather than include these two vessels with the 64-gun ships, it would be clearer if you treat them - the final version of the classic 70-gun ship (they were actually built to the lines and dimensions of the 1745 Establishment 70s) - as "1745 Establishment, as amended in 1756" in exactly the same way as the preceding Burford Class has already been treated as "1745 Establishment, as amended in 1754". I have amended accordingly. Rif Winfield 07:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Temple'' Class 68-gun ships (1756/57 orders) 

message: The  1666 Rupert was rebuilt at least twice, with different dimensions in each case.  This kind of rebuild consists of breaking up the ships and using as much as practical of the wood in the construction of a new ship.
Launched	Length of Gun Deck	Length of Keel	Breadth   	Depth in Hold	Tonnage	Source
1666    	                  	119 ft        	36 ft 3 in	17 ft 1 in   	791    	p161, Lavery, The Ship of the Line, Volume I
1713    	143 ft 4 in       	119 ft        	38 ft 4 in	15 ft 2 in   	930    	p167, Lavery, The Ship of the Line, Volume I
1740    	144 ft            	116 ft 4 in   	41 ft 5 in	16 ft 11 in  	1070   	p171, Lavery, The Ship of the Line, Volume I
Note that the description in Lavery of the 1713 Rupert says that the tonnage before the rebuild was 843 tons.  This implies the ship had had major alterations (or another rebuild) between 1666 and 1713.--Toddy1 07:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rebuilds of HMS Rupert

message: The National Archives' Your Archives wiki requires information on many ships of the line. (See "Wanted pages"). Jackiespeel (talk) 17:28, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The National Archives and ships of the line

message: Many of the footnotes refer to an author by the name of "Lyons". However, the references list a "Lyon", which appears to be the correct spelling. How can we reconcile the footnotes with the reference list?Acad Ronin (talk) 16:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.--Toddy1 (talk) 18:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation issue

message: I have noted that quite a few of the individual entries listed on this page include "Tons burthen" as a measure of size but cite it in the form of long tons with a metric equivalent. This is completely incorrect and misleading. Tons burthen is a nominal measure of ship size in volumetric units, with one ton equal to between 94 and 100 cubic feet (depending on period) of the product of three of the ship's main dimensions (which three also varies with period). It originated with attempts to represent ship size as the theoretical number of wine tuns (casks) which could be carried, although it was an approximation only. One wine tun did weigh something like a long ton (depending on the actual size of the cask), but to quote ship tonnage in weight tons in this period is meaningless. Tons burthen was eventually replaced by displacement as a measure of size for warships. It would be most accurate to remove the long ton and metric tonne references to all of these entries, but it would be tedious (especially the explanation on every edit page). Is there a simple way to do this? Fred Hocker (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Tonnage for wooden ships