Talk:Schizoaffective disorder

message: Comment on the link just removed: 
*http://www.schizoaffective.org/ Schizoaffective.org - A support group
It seems interesting enough to include. That it is anti-psychiatry doesn't deem it uninteresting, no? Preferable would be to write next to the link: "This page is anti-psychiatry", as they boost this themselves. So can we give people the possibility of making their own opinion instead of censoring for them.
I will reinsert the link as soon as the page starts working, if no one objects.
I think that it is good to hear both sides to this.  There are pros and cons to medicating a person with schizoaffective disorder.  
--Fred-Chess 05:56, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am concerned that this link, with a generic name like schizoaffective.org, might be considered an authority on the disease.  This site is strongly and pervasively preaching a message of "don't see your doctor" and even "don't take your meds."  This is a very dangerous message for most people suffering from a psychotic disorder since it is the continued use of their medication that allows them to make intelligent decisions.  I think if you want to include this strongly POV link in an otherwise NPOV article, you need more than a few words of disclaimer.  But I would welcome other opinions. Shoaler 08:39, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Certainly not as a generalization.  But some forms and degrees of mental illness can seriously impair a person's ability to accurately evaluate their environment.  They read malice where none exists and evaluate average daily situations as threatening.  It is very difficult, if not impossible, for persons such as this to make a knowledgeable decision.  For many of these people, a specific medication or group of medications can help them be nearly asymptomatic. In such a situation, they are much more capable of evaluating their world accurately and making a knowledgeable decision -- BUT in the absence of symptoms, and if the medication has unpleasant side effects, it is easy to believe that you are no longer sick and to discontinue the medication. Especially when persuasive people tell you that you don't need your doctor or your medication. For people who have worked hard to find the right medication and for whom medication has allowed them the first real chance at living a semi-normal life, telling them not to take their meds or not to work with their doctor, I believe is cruel and abusive. –Shoaler (talk) 19:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Schizoaffective.org

message: I have SAD and I don't take Seroquel regularly any more, getting high on Seroquel does not allow me to function with a clear mind its' effect is long lasting if taken at doses of 200mg -300mg. makes operating a machinery dangerous.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.41.148.220 (talk) 17:10, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen claims on the internet of the efficacy of cannabis in treating schizoaffective disorder.  I have seen far more discussions of the problems of trying to sort out the symptoms of a patient with both schizoaffective disorder and cannabis abuse. I think that the use of cannabis in treating SA is currently just a footnote and deserves no greater treatment in the article. –Shoaler (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I am new to wikipedia but quite familair with this disorder from all sides. As this article is to be a NPOV article, any unproven or controversial studies can be cited but should not take up 30-percent of the article (i.e. Cannabis). I agree with Shoaler that if Cannabis is to be included it should be nothing more than a footnote or link to another source. Having it in the article is irresponsible. Both students (young and old) and individuals (caregivers or people with the disorder) will rely on the information in this article. You accept a HUGE responsiblility when editing these articles since your insert of POV or unproven information can have a far-reaching, negative impact on many lives. 24.95.36.22 16:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with what you did. Thanks for fixing this. -- Argon233 T @ C ¶ U ∠  23:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cannabis

message: I removed the warning message that 70.49.59.224 added to this section because, basically, I couldn't understand the point that s/he was making, and the reference din't help.  Schizoaffective disorder is a diagnosis made by a mental health professional, frequently a physician (psychiatrist). The DSM is just a collection of diagnoses with numbers so the professional can communicate the diagnosis to other professionals (and to insurance companies). The DSM does not diagnose anything itself. –Shoaler (talk) 13:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Signs and Symptoms

message: From the article's intro:
:Bipolar schizoaffective disorder is more similar to bipolar disorder than schizophrenia.
Does that mean BSD is more similar to bipolar disorder than to schizophrenia, or does it mean BSD ismore similar to biploar disorder than schizophrenia is? AxelBoldt 18:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: I have an issue about such an extensive article on this topic.  It is simply one diagnostic category of DSM and ICD and probably only deserves a small mention and then a significant section left to the broader concept of Schizotypy.  Only the distinct aspects of schizoaffective disorder need to be addressed here.
the continued listing of these (DSM and ICD) categories of mental illness, without balance is not a WP:NPOV - as it unintentionally supports the concept of diagnosis and categories without question - or at least without more balanced acknowledgement that these are a particular world view.  Wikipedia should not be a repeat of DSM.  I see similar issues with Schizophreniform disorder and schizoaffective disorder - ie they seem like a direct copy of the concept, without alerting the reading to the possible bias.
I will begin to edit as per these comments
the section on diagnosis is misleading.  Schizoaffective disorder is a diagnosis. Earlypsychosis (talk) 09:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at Schizophrenia#Controversies_and_research_directions for some criticism of Schizoaffective disorder (poor interrater agreement) etc. Follow the sources there. As far language goes, use the wording in the introduction to Schizophrenia; it's been heavily debated over time, and is probably the best the wiki can muster. Sorry I don't have the time to help here for now. Xasodfuih (talk) 10:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is perhaps overambitious but it  might be a good idea to have a "psychiatric diagnoses" article which would include the various controversies, categories, theories, and so on.  Then specific articles would both have a place to link and the beginnings of standards for categorizing diagnoses in individual articles. OldMonkeyPuzzle (talk) 16:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  because it appears in DSM and ICD it must be true? 

message: first line now reads more accurately that schizopaffective disorder is a diagnosis.  the reference to neurobiological illness was removed for several reasons - firstly the reference to illness is not strictly WP:NPOV and secondly the link redirects to mental disorder, a subtle, yet important distinction.  Earlypsychosis (talk) 00:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit of first line illness 

message: how do i state to my college the problems this illness is having on me?
I have gone from the Dean list to appealing for lack of achievement for taking to many electives.
I have been having problems and have had to have medicines changed which will mostly take up another semester.
I am getting credits for these classes. and have aready brought supplies for these classes. I don't want to stop going to classes but I am in no shape to take harder classes at this time.
Help I have to write an appeal. What can I say with out blowing my chance to remain in school??  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.108.207 (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: (I know this is not appropriate for this talk page, but before it is erased, let me say:) Talk to your doctor!  The one who prescribes the meds. He/she can help you write an appropriate justification, etc. –Shoaler (talk) 23:48, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  schizoaffective disorder and school 

message: The American Psychiatric Association has not released its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into public domain, but claims copyright. The Wikimedia Foundation has received a letter of complaint (Ticket:2010030910040817, for those with access) about the use of their diagnostic criteria in this and a number of other articles. Currently, this content is blanked pending investigation, which will last approximately one week. Please feel free to provide input at the copyright problems board listing during that time. Individuals with access to the books would be particularly welcome in helping to conduct the investigation. Assistance developing a plan to prevent misuse of the APA's material on Wikipedia projects would also be welcome. Thank you.  Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, the BehaveNet website reprints DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria with permission (and has had this information available since at least 2003). Zach99998 (talk) 08:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I also now realize you're aware of this :) Zach99998 (talk) 10:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright problems with diagnostic criteria

message: The second section was called "Introduction" which was causing confusion, so I changed it to "General Features."  I have no attachment to the title "General Features" if anyone can think of something better. OldMonkeyPuzzle (talk) 16:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Changed section called "Introduction" to "General Features

message: This article has about 3,000 words more than the article on schizotypal disorder, but about 3000 less than the article on schizoid disorder.  The schizotypal article seems to focus on  diagnostic criteria and the like, while the schizoid article seems to focus on history.  Both define the diagnoses simply as disorders rather than diagnoses describing disorders. 
The schizoaffective article has an odd tone. There seems to be a great deal of personal investment by the main author. It seems to consist mostly of various ideas and approaches to who is schizoaffective and ideas about treatment. This is necessarily pretty fuzzy.
There is no real model as far as I can see.  But this needs some work to be coherent, factual, and inclusive.  OldMonkeyPuzzle (talk) 17:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I just made a couple of edits to the intro: I removed a "not to be confused with schizophrenia" warning, a line that began "Schizoaffective disorder is often misunderstood by the general public ...," an obsolete warning box about the intro being too long; and a typo.OldMonkeyPuzzle (talk) 17:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Coatracks, Forks, and Personal Investment

message: Unable to figure out the references for this text therefore removed.
===Occupational therapy===
The role of occupational therapy in treating a mental health condition like schizoaffective disorder is primarily focused on support, education, advocacy, evaluation through assessment and skills training in a variety of settings.  Occupational therapy intervention may take place in rehabilitation programs in in-patient, out-patient, community mental health settings, as well as in group therapy sessions and family meetings. One of the main goals of occupational therapy is to create intervention plans, and provide rehabilitative services that meet the needs of each individual client. As a result, occupational therapists may be involved in many different therapeutic interventions depending on the unique needs of their client. Occupational therapists may be involved in more than one therapeutic process with each client at a given time. For example, an occupational therapist may educate a client’s family about schizoaffective disorder in addition to running a skills based therapy session involving the client.
One of the main areas of involvement for occupational therapists working with clients with schizoaffective disorder is improving social functioning. In a 2008 study, Grimm et al. suggest that in order "to improve the occupational or social functioning of individuals with schizophrenic disorders, it is important to [first] assess their specific strengths and problem areas and the overall effect of these on [their daily activities]". (26) Impairments in cognitive and social functioning have a significant affect on a person’s daily activities across many areas. Executive function skills such as planning, attention, reasoning, problem solving, learning and memory yield the strongest relationship with functional performance (27).  These same skills are required in social functioning because effective social relationships require appropriate perception and cognitive skills (28).  
Because areas of cognitive and social functioning are most impacted, the aim of occupational therapy in the treatment of schizoaffective disorder is to "[improve cognitive] and social deficits as well as motor, process, communication and social interaction skills" (28).  Therapy may take place in an individual or group context and may include a variety of methods and programs: social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, cognitive remediation therapy, assertive community training, life skills training, supported employment, group therapy, and psychoeducation are some examples. A further description of each therapy type can be found at  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bookshelf/br.fcgi?book=nicecg82&part=ch8#ch8.s125.
Group therapy sessions are often lead by occupational therapists and provide opportunities for observational learning and create an environment where clients can practice the skills being learned. "Groups can also provide opportunities to bolster social support" (27). Through group therapy sessions, individuals can also make contact with other individuals with schizoaffective disorder, which can be very therapeutic. 
Social skills training targets social and living skills and can affect a number of dimensions important to recovery in persons with schizoaffective disorder.  Techniques used in social skills training programs by occupational therapists include: behavioral demonstrations, role-playing, coaching, modeling, shaping and generalization training. (27).
Cognitive behavioral therapy is an "insight focused therapy that emphasizes recognizing and changing negative thoughts and maladaptive beliefs" (29). Cognitive behavioral therapy has been effective at reducing the severity of positive and negative symptoms in persons with schizophrenic disorders thereby improving community functioning and quality of life (27).  
Cognitive remediation therapy aims to improve the cognitive functions and executive thinking skills in persons with schizoaffective disorder.  Improvements in thinking skills such as planning, attention and reasoning lead to improvements in an individual’s occupational and social functioning. "Life skills training, such as money management, meal preparation and transportation can produce positive results when done in the natural environment where activities occur" (28).
In addition to leading different skills based groups, occupational therapists play an important role in providing support for clients with mental illnesses such as schizoaffective disorder. They directly support their client by providing them with education regarding their illness, including common signs and symptoms that are to be expected. Occupational therapists also provide support through advocating on their client’s behalf, searching out possible privileges, and/or entitlements that may be available to individuals with mental illness. These privileges are often obtained in the context of work, school, or employment agencies.  
Occupational therapists are a fundamental part of the involvement and education of clients’ families in the therapy process. "When families become involved in treatment, relapse, noncompliance, and re-hospitalization rates significantly go down". (28) Education of family members occurs through family meetings, occupational therapists can be the contact person for the family to ask questions and express their concerns. Occupational therapists may also provide families with education on crisis intervention, problem solving training and other tools that will help them support their family members in recovering from schizoaffective disorder. 
Additionally, occupational therapists use various assessment tools to evaluate a client’s strengths, weaknesses, improvement, and whether occupational therapy would be helpful to the client. Creek & Lougher (2008), describe assessments used by occupational therapists in three categories, including, initial assessments, ongoing assessments, and later assessments. Each category serves a specific purpose in the therapeutic process. For example, initial assessments are used to evaluate the client’s strengths, problem areas, and whether occupational therapy is appropriate (30). Ongoing assessments display change, and whether outcomes have been reached (30). Furthermore, later assessments display ongoing problems, and help to determine whether changes in the intervention are necessary (30). Throughout the evaluation process occupational therapists use many different specific assessments. A list of specific assessments can be found at  http://www.qotfc.edu.au/mental-health/documents/links/ot_resources_townsville_mhs.pdf.
Occupational therapists help people living with Schizo-affective Disorder by supporting, educating, advocating for them and by providing evaluation through assessments and skills training in a variety of settings. Through these methods occupational therapy improves the clients functioning based on what the individual is having troubles with as well as helps the individual improve in areas that they deem as meaningful to them.
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I was about to make the same comment. Declaring in an off-hand way that genetics is one of the causes is a very subtle but ultimately mendacious way to introduce causation without scientific validation.Historian932 (talk) 20:21, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: These are potential causes and should be read as such.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:23, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: OT

message: The article says: "Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, psychological and social processes are important contributory factors." As a professional I have yet to come over sound research showing clear causal relations between any of these factors (especially genetics and neurobiology) and the diagnosis. If you do, please make sure to give references. Otherwise, I suggest a reformulation of "are important contributory factors" to "may be contributory factors".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.186.74.5 (talk) 09:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I was about to make the same comment. Declaring in an off-hand way that genetics is one of the causes is a very subtle but ultimately mendacious way to introduce causation without scientific validation.Historian932 (talk) 20:21, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: These are potential causes and should be read as such.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:23, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims about the causes of the disorder

message: Some peolpe think that Schizoaffective disorder is from family members and that if you have it you have to be on meds to "controll" it. But what the doctors don't know anything they beileive that every case is the same and its not take me for exsample i've had Schizoaffective disorder for as long as i can remember, and i'm only 18. i refuse to take my meds because all it dose is make me unable to think strate or walk right. the pills themselfs are worst then delling with my disorter. i say to the docs. if you dont have or if you do try those pills for two weeks and see how they affect you and i bet you'll take them off the shelfs and stop trying to fix us. theres nothing wrong!!!!!!!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.71.148.90 (talk) 18:02, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schizoaffective disorder 

message: I'll leave this here in case there's actuallly a decent source to back it up. News articles are not acceptable per WP:MEDRS.
:Also, Sweden and Japan--where self-reported marijuana use is very low--have similar rates of psychosis to the U.S. and Canada. 
Watermelon mang (talk) 05:26, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  From section re: cannabis and epidemiology 

message: I think this is note worthy.  In the dsm schizophrenia lists pervasive development disorder as a preferable alternative diagnosis if there are symptoms of a pdd and unless delusions are bizzar. This isn't the case for schizoaffective disorder even though along with schizophrenia it's a common missduagnosis esp when comorbid adhd is taken into account.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.253.206 (talk) 12:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your comment! So in what way would you like to change the article? Lova Falk talk 14:13, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  pdd missing from dsm 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Schizoaffective disorder's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Stahl":
From Tiagabine: Stahl, S. Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology: Prescriber's Guide. Cambridge University Press: New York, NY. 2009. pp. 523-526
From Treatment of bipolar disorder: [[cite book|author= Stahl SM | title=Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology: Neuroscientific basis and practical applications| publisher=Cambridge University Press | year=2008}}
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 02:54, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Lova Falk talk 14:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Schizoaffective disorder]] 

message: The lead is the first part of the article most people read, and many only read the lead. Consideration should be given to creating interest in reading more of the article, but the lead should not "tease" the reader by hinting at content that follows. Instead, the lead should be written in a clear, accessible style with a neutral point of view; it should ideally contain no more than four paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate.
The current article has seven paragraphs in the Lead. Checkingfax (talk) 03:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead too long 

message: I did a spell check of the easy words. Checkingfax (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spell check 

message: My 67 year old brother was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder at age 17. He is a ward of the State of California and
has been living in group homes, however, now he is in a locked facility.
He's absolutely miserable at the Green Acres Lodge. The person in charge has decided that my brother can't go on
outings or to the program. My brother loves to be outside and is very depressed. His case manager will only listen to the person in charge
at Green Acres Lodge. At this point, I feel I should take custody of my brother and help him find some personal happiness.
The dilemma is I live in on the East Coast. Getting my brother from the West Coast to the East Coast won't be easy. Also, I am 
not sure how damaged he is given that he's been on psychiatric drugs for 50 years. I hate to take responsibility for his care
and them regret it. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
December 24, 2013  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.55.134.64 (talk) 16:48, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  My brother was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder 

message: Not sure what is with this edit ? Therefore reverted. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted again. Ref says "Episodic disorders in which both affective and schizophrenic symptoms are prominent but which do not justify a diagnosis of either schizophrenia or depressive or manic episodes"  Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:28, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit

message: The SZD article was launched by an IP in 2003. Checkingfax (talk) 22:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution of an article 

message: The battle lines have been drawn here, with neither side showing signs of giving in. What has emerged as a result of this debate is that images, particularly in the infobox, need to be chosen carefully in articles about mental health problems. Failure to do this can result in the addition of images that are off-topic or portray outdated stereotypes that the media has been urged to avoid. It is hard to see how any sensible person could argue that the paintings Yard with Lunatics and At Eternity's Gate  have a "significant and direct" link to schizoaffective disorder, as Goya and van Gogh would never have heard of the DSM-IV codes. As WP:LEADIMAGE says, it is better to have no image at all than to have an off-topic one. WP:MED should look into this issue and have some guidelines which would prevent individual editors from insisting that an image that they found on Commons has a significant and direct link to a mental health diagnosis when it obviously does not.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:21, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The DSM4 did not invent the disease and therefore van Gogh not hearing about the book is a strange argument. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:23, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yard with Lunatics and At Eternity's Gate  are fine for illustrating the works of Goya and van Gogh. They are not fine for illustrating general concepts of mental health because they contain Bedlam-type imagery which the media has been asked to avoid. WP:LEADIMAGE is clear that some article topics may be difficult to illustrate, and schizoaffective disorder is one of them. What does it look like? It is hard to say, because it is a medical diagnosis. This is why WP:LEADIMAGE recommends having no lead image if this problem is likely to occur.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:13, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it is hard to depict. No it is not a medical diagnosis, it is a psychiatric diagnosis. Both mania and depression can be depicted and as key aspects of this disorder would be depictions of it aswell. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:02, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: In Schizophrenia it was apparently agreed to have a cloth embroidered by a schizophrenic person as the lead image. Perhaps here something showing the disorder's impact on other objects could be the lead image as well, possibly like altered handwriting. Just an observation, as I don't strongly favor any image here. Brandmeistertalk   20:48, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

text: For some controversial articles we do decide on no image when we cannot agree on any of the possibilities. We could go with a picture of psychotherapy http://neurowiki2014.wikidot.com/individual:psychotherapy Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:13, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That works for me. QuackGuru (talk) 19:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary break

message: Having had a little distance to the topic I think its clear there are more people in favor of removing the image than there are in retaining them for this specific article. I agree that none of the images are ideal, but I'm very concerned with getting rid of all images from mental health articles. We can not let perfect be the enemy of good, and I've reached out to a self-confessed "schizoaffective artist" as well as having looked through some other venues for an appropriate image. Getting hold of a better image may take a while, but for the time being I think this RfC is doing more harm than good. CFCF 💌 📧 13:22, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: My preference is no picture when there is no picture that is either illustrative of the topic or somehow aids in understanding the topic. This picture seems to be more a picture for the sake of having a picture and, other than being innocuous, has much the same policy failings as the other proposed pictures. That said it is so innocuous that if most editors want a picture for the sake of having a picture I can not bring myself to object too strongly. JbhTalk 20:38, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

text: *It's not bad, but I would also still prefer no image as it doesn't seem to add any information to the article. Another thing I've just stumbled upon is Wikipedia:Image placeholders, though haven't read it thoroughly enough to know whether it would be helpful or unhelpful here. ‑‑YodinT 21:42, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: *Wait, it's deprecated; fixed the text around the link that pointed me there. ‑‑YodinT 21:49, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Motion to close

message: a lot of the information and references in this article are outdated. i recommend someone start all over. (please)Talon grey (talk) 23:16, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  needs to be updated 

message: seasonal affective disorderTalon grey (talk)talon grey  —Preceding undated comment added 23:42, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  sad 

message: With a heavy heart, I ask why the painting File:Courtyard with Lunatics by Goya 1794.jpg is being used in the infobox. OK, it's a good painting, it's copyright free and it is on Commons, but it has nothing to do with schizoaffective disorder. Now wait for some people to turn up and say that we *must* have it.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:24, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It is relevant. If you can find a better one let's talk. QuackGuru (talk) 06:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: And the prize for deciding that we *must* have this image despite its lack of WP:PERTINENCE goes to the aptly named QuackGuru, who reverted twice.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:34, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course the image is relevant. They ae acting abnormal in the painting. I thought one of them was looking at me. Kind of scary! QuackGuru (talk) 06:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That is such a thin argument. "They are acting abnormal". Is that the best you can come up with?--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:42, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia's Yard with Lunatics: "Some historians speculate that Goya's symptoms may indicate prolonged viral encephalitis; and the mixture of tinnitus, imbalance and progressive deafness may be symptoms of Ménière's disease. Others claim that he was suffering from mental illness. However, these attempts at posthumous diagnosis are purely, and only, speculative and hypothetical. Goya's diagnosis remains unknown. What is known, is that he lived in fear of insanity, and projected his fears and despair into his work." Freaky! QuackGuru (talk) 06:45, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of this source highlights the clear problem with the lack of WP:PERTINENCE and MOS:IMAGELEAD compliance. In particular, "Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works, and therefore what our readers will expect to see. Lead images are not required, and not having a lead image may be the best solution if there is no easy representation of the topic" Neither of these policies requires the infobox image to be freaky.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:52, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: See "Ome medical writers have favored the diagnosis of syphilis, some consider the possibility of an exogenous psychosis, and other suggests that the symptoms of the illness are more congruent with heavy metal poisoning, particulary lead." What he had did affect is mind. QuackGuru (talk) 08:03, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

text: Just saw this in my watchlist. Consensus still stands from the above discussion: please stop being disruptive . Why was this image restored on 6 Sept by  without an edit summary? ‑‑YodinT 14:20, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anyway, it's out of the article at the moment and I would be amazed by anyone who would go to the wall to have this very clearly off topic image in the infobox.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:19, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an awareness ribbon for SAD we could use. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:28, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current infobox image 

message: I have been assigned to edit an article of my choice for my Psychology Capstone course. I chose the article "Schizoaffective Disorder" mainly because I did not know much information on the topic, because it was a class C article, and because I have a family member diagnosed with SAD. I would really like to contribute to the "signs and symptoms" portion of the article; I feel this is what most people use wikipedia for, to see what the diagnosis really entails. I would also like to contribute a bit to the "causes" heading, but instead of adding much more information, I believe it could be presented in a slightly clearer way; I would reword some sentences and maybe add a small bit of information. The main section I would like to contribute on is "treatment." The first statement in the section states that "Few medications are approved specifically for schizoaffective disorder." However, my family member that has been diagnosed with SAD is so heavily medicated to suppress her symptoms that other family members say she is nothing like the person she used to be. I believe this section could use some enlightenment on not only the available options, but also side affects of different combinations of meds. I love that other options for treatment, like therapy, have been included and have a lot of detail.
Sources I plan to use include:
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/schizoaffective-disorder
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/schizoaffective-disorder
https://www.everydayhealth.com/schizophrenia/guide/schizoaffective/
Thanks, Madihuddleston (talk) 04:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contributions to the page for a school assignment 

message: * Please don't take this the wrong way, but reading this article and Talk section serves as a good reminder that there are some articles that ought to be curated especially well (that is, some articles on particular/specific mental disorders). This should read like a reference, not a WebMD or psych forum, shouldn't it? Has anyone considered turning some of these pages into semi-protected pages? Speaking as someone with an education in psych, I'd highly recommend you consider it. I'm not saying this to insult anyone or hurt anyone's feelings, but it could be harmful or damaging (yes, I am aware some people consider the psych field to be damaging at times too, but I'm not suggesting Freudians take over the joint)... :/ – Just a concerned reader @ 21:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerns about this article... 

message: — Assignment last updated by Thatbaddie205 (talk) 02:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Psychology Capstone

message: — Assignment last updated by Kennedif00 (talk) 15:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Psychology Capstone

message: According to the introduction to this article at present: "Schizoaffective disorder can often be misdiagnosed when the correct diagnosis may be psychotic depression, bipolar I disorder, schizophreniform disorder, or schizophrenia." 
Psychotic depression: misdiagnosis is a result of presuming that psychotic symptoms are present outside of a major depressive episode when in fact they are not. Bipolar I is similar, but with major depressive or manic episodes. 
Schizophrenia: misdiagnosis is a result of considering major mood episodes to be ongoing for more of the period of illness than is accurate. This may be done by underestimating how long the period of remission is (particularly if it consists mostly of negative symptoms) or by misidentifying heavy presence of negative symptoms as a major depressive episode. 
But schizophreniform disorder? It is not clear to me how someone with schizophreniform disorder would be misdiagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. An episode involving both affective and nonaffective psychoses is on its own sufficient for the schizoaffective disorder diagnosis to be correct, as long as the time restrictions (nonaffective psychosis for at least 2 weeks; affective psychosis predominant) are respected. 
Furthermore, while I have no source (and as such am not editing the article, only the talk page) schizoaffective disorder would seem to me to be more likely to be misdiagnosed as bipolar I disorder or major depressive disorer with psychotic features (due to presumption of circumscription of psychosis to major mood episodes) or as schizophrenia (due to overfocus on positive symptoms and inattention to major depressive episodes, which may mimic negative symptomatology) rather than the other way round. 
Proposal: update this sentence to no longer include reference to schizophreniform disorder and include a passage which reflects misdiagnosis in both directions, with all claims made clearly cited (and obviously if my presumptions are wrong, particularly the one about schizophreniform disorder, then they shouldn't make it through to an edit!) Anditres (talk) 21:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misdiagnosis of schizophreniform disorder as schizoaffective disorder