Talk:Kami

message: Does anyone know if there is documentation of visitations upon the living by kami? Chris 23:37, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ever seen a tree? ;-) Seriously, the line between gods and humans is sort of blurred in the ancient Shinto myths, but I think the gods were just sort of around, interacting with normal people all the time. There may also be stories where someone's ancestors appeared to them or something like that. If I come across anything specific I'll let you know. MikeDockery 23:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you wanted an example, so: The Yata-no-Kagami, Amaterasu's sacred mirror, was said to be initially kept in the palace in Nara until 100BC, when the daughter of Emperor Sunin, Princess Toyosuki'iri had it moved to Kasanui-no-mura because of supposed jealousy over the beauty of her ancestress.  It was said that immediately thereafter, Amaterasu appeared before Emperor Sunin, demanding a more suitable location for the mirror.  A long search was undertaken, with Amaterasu reappearing on occasion to harrass the people in charge of the search, and in 4BC, Princess Mikoto discovered a site near Isuzugawa where the mirror would be enshrined peacefully.  That place is now the  Ise Shrine.--み使い Mitsukai 03:12, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: documentation of [[theophany]] by kami

message: 1. Include an etymology section: This would be useful, as the Ainu kamui and a word meaning "above" (as referred to in this article's second paragraph) are both suggested roots of the word according to various sources. Some (such as the venerable Yahoo!) support the latter, in spite of apparent general consensus being that originally they were not viewed as being inherently superior or being "above" us in some heavenly kingdom, and that the complex mythology of Izanagi, Izanami and Amaterasu is a later (Chinese-influenced) development, with others, such as Louis Fréderic (do other encyclopedias count as valid references?) give due emphasis to the former.
2. Remove the statement about the word's translation: Both of these words ("god" and "deity") have been used throughout their histories to refer to nature spirits that are basically deified ancestors: Greek nymphs and Roman house deities, Hindu local deities, Norse elves and so on... It is therefore inappropriate to say these translations are inappropriate.
elvenscout742 00:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two suggestions... 

message: I've removed the following for the time being:
:In its usage within Shinto, the word is an honorific (See: Japanese titles and Japanese honorifics) for noble, sacred spirits, which implies a sense of respect or adoration for their virtues and authority. Since all beings have such spirits, human beings (and indeed all beings) could be considered kami or potential kami. However, because the Japanese almost never use an honorific to refer to themselves or to a member of a group to which they belong, it is uncommon for a normal human being to be referred to as a kami (Ono, 1962).
Although it appears to be sourced, it still seem pretty dodgy to me. I have no doubt that kami is probably considered a honorific term in Shinto, nowever the rest of it I can't really agree as readily with.
For one, honorifics are used almost always when refering to other people. An honorific doesn't necesarily imply a higher status of the person addressed. In fact, -kun, -chan and even -tan are all honorifics. Addressing somebody without an honorific (nasute) is rare and considered rude.
And second, all human (and all other) beings are considered potential kami in Shinto. When they die, they pass on to kami-hood, unless something goes terribly wrong. Simple as that. TomorrowTime 23:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, even if something goes terribly wrong, they become kami (specifically, ancestor-gods), they just become kami who are in their wrathful state. Ancestor-kami who are in their wrathful state are usually called ghosts. 174.17.145.192 (talk) 08:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Kami" as a Shinto honorific

message: Would it be possible to move all the pop-culture kami references to another page entirely, with disambiguation links? I am tempted to suggest the deletion of all the references to kami within nerdporn as being inauthentic to the subject, but realizing that there are people who insist on wasting their time playing a game that was designed for 12-year-olds, maybe a separate page would be better. It would certainly make the article look more professional.Happydog 21:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, a number of longer articles went through a similar change lately. Kitsune, Kappa, Tanuki, Tengu all have their separate "In Popular Culture" articles, and it's working out great - people that are serious about the state of these articles can keep up a good effort at a serious article (kitsune was just recently FA), and people that feel the inexplicable urge to mention that the hairdresser from page 372, volume 43 of their favorite manga resembles a kappa have an article where they can proclaim this. I'd support this; the article at hand seems to be long enough to merit a split like that. TomorrowTime 23:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Kami in popular culture. The article is long enough without the list, and a split is acceptable, IMO. TomorrowTime 14:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving pop culture Kami to another page

message: Please don't shoot me, but I merged Kami in popular culture back into this article.  I have merged back less than 10% of the "pop culture" article's content (3-4 sentences).  A number of "popular culture" articles have been deleted recently (although an almost equal number have been kept) and the consensus at WP:AFD seems to be this (please note, this is just my interpretation, which others may not agree with): popular culture sections that become long and lack prose should either be prosified or trimmed; sections that contain prose or are limited only to significant pop culture references may be worthy of their own articles or worthy or remaining in the main article.
I have added a hidden message to the bottom of the "Kami in popular culture" section discouraging trivial additions.  Moreover, I have added this page to my watchlist and will monitor the section.  However, given my lack of knowledge about the subject and my limited involvement with the article, I will ultimately defer to the consensus of those editors who most actively work on this article: if you firmly believe the content has no place here, I will not oppose its removal; conversely, if you feel that the short version can stay, I will regularly trim and/or clean up the section as necessary. Cheers, Black Falcon 05:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I certainly ain't shooting you - you did what I didn't have balls to do. I suppose I should have outright deleted 90% of the original list in the first place. And it's good to hear you're willing to chaperone this article's pop culture section - I'm almost out of the wiki thing lately (no time, no time), and I only peep into some of the articles I used to keep an eye on now and then. Good hunting! TomorrowTime 00:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging pop culture Kami back

message: Without having to wade first through tons and tons of files on Japanese, I would think that the main article could be improved by supplying a paragraph on the etymology behind Kami.  Is there an etymology?   What sound shifts might have changed the word in the last thousand or more years?  216.99.219.108 (talk) 23:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of Kami 

message: The article currently states: "The oldest written record of creation (and that of Japan as well) is in the Kojiki of 712."  Torah scrolls containing the 'Genesis' creation myth predate that by 700 years.  I'm editing this to remove the patently false claim.  Darkpoet (talk) 03:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kojiki 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Kami. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130703032246/http://jisho.org/kanji/details/ to http://jisho.org/kanji/details/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130730131745/http://cla.calpoly.edu/~bmori/syll/Hum310japan/Shinto.html to http://cla.calpoly.edu/~bmori/syll/Hum310japan/Shinto.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ===Spelling of foreign terms in article===
There are a number of foreign terms in the article. I was unable to check the spelling of a number of words, so anybody working on this article after me who is fluent in Japanese may want to check that foreign words throughout the article have been spelled correctly.
===Etymology===
*The first entry in etymological suggestions may need to be revised. Below is a possible revision, adding parentheses around what may be text showing the pronunciation of the kanji 神.
:Possible revision (but only if it does not change the intended meaning of the author): "Kami may, at its root, simply mean spirit, or an aspect of spirituality. It is written with the kanji 神 (Sino-Japanese: shin or jin). In Chinese, the character means deity".
* The second entry in etymological suggestions needs to be revised for clarity. Below is a possible revision. 
:Original: "In the Ainu language, the word kamuy refers to an animistic concept very similar to Japanese kami. The matter of the words' origins is still a subject of debate; several hypotheses about their similarities exist: the Japanese word was borrowed from the Jomon/Ainu language, or are cognates of an extremely distant common ancestor."
:Possible revision (but only if it does not change the intended meaning of the author): "In the Ainu language, the word kamuy refers to an animistic concept very similar to Japanese kami. The matter of the origin of these two words is still a subject of debate and several hypotheses about their similarities exist. The Japanese word may be borrowed from the Jomon/Ainu language, or the two words may be cognates of an extremely distant common ancestor."
*The following text, appearing near the end of this section, needs to be revised for clarity. It’s difficult to understand, and a large amount of the text is also set in italics. It should be reworded so it’s easier to understand, and any words that do not need to be italicized should be changed to roman text.
:"The logograms for kami-sama are those used for shén yàng in Pŭtōnghuà; 'kami-sama can be used for a divinity, or for an outstanding human, such as Tezuka Osamu, "the god of manga." The term generally used to refer to multiple kami is kamigami."
*The last sentence in this section also needs to be revised. Below is a possible revision, but only if the text is factually correct:
:"The word megami (女神), referring to female kami, is a fairly new tradition."
===History===
In the last paragraph, I recommend the following revision:
:Original: "…and the 3,131 official-recognized and enshrined kami."
:Possible revision (but only if it does not change the intended meaning of the author): "…and the 3,131 officially-recognized and enshrined kami."
===Shinto belief===
*In the fifth paragraph, are “all” kami considered to be “anthropomorphic spirits, with nobility and authority”, or is it only “some” kami? The first two sentences suggests all, but then the third sentence uses the phrase “these kami”, as if referring to the example given in the second sentence, and suggesting that only certain kami (like Amaterasu-ōmikami) are considered to have those attributes. I recommend rewording this paragraph for clarity. I have left it untouched (aside from other unrelated edits) as I do not want to change its meaning.
*In the sixth paragraph, the term “ya-o-yorozu no kami” does not need to be italicized, but I can’t figure out how to make it roman. I removed the italic markup but it is still in italics.
*In the second last paragraph, the word “omamori” is used, and then the word “mamori” appears in the following sentence. The second instance of the word appears to be a typo, but I’m not sure. I have not altered the text.
===Ceremonies and Festivals===
*In the first paragraph, the text describes two variations of a ritual. I recommend the following revision to make the text clearer:
:Possible revision (but only if factually correct): "One of the first recorded rituals we know of is Niiname-sai, the ceremony in which the Emperor offers newly harvested rice to the kami to secure their blessing for a bountiful harvest. A yearly festival, Niiname-sai is also performed when a new Emperor comes to power, in which case it is called Onamesai; in this variation of the ceremony, the Emperor offers crops from the new harvest to the kami, including rice, fish, fruits, soup and stew. The Emperor first feasts with the deities, then the guests. The feast could go on for some time, for example the Showa Emperor's feast spanned two days."
*In the second paragraph, the text describes a traditional method for gaining a kami’s attention. I’m not sure if the last two actions are to be done separate from each other, or at the same time (clap twice and then bow again, or clap twice while bowing again. I have not altered the text as I do not want to change its meaning. Here is the text:
:"The traditional method of doing this is to bow twice, clap twice and bow again, alerting the kami to their presence and desire to commune with them." 
:Here are two possible revisions:
::"…bow twice, clap twice, and then bow again, alerting the kami…"
::"…bow twice, then clap twice while bowing again, alerting the kami…"
:The last sentence in this paragraph has a similar issue and will also need to be revised for clarity, depending on the intended meaning.
*In the fourth paragraph, there is only one festival given as an example (the New Year Festival). Since this paragraph is discussing festivals, I recommend adding one or two additional examples so readers can appreciate the different kinds of Shinto festivals, and how kami figure into them.  
*In the last paragraph, the following sentence may need to be revised. I recommend the following revision (adding a comma and the word “and”), but only if it does not change the author’s meaning:
:"Ceremonies and festivals are long and complex  they need to be perfect to satisfy the kami."
===Notable Kami===
There is an entry in this section that may need to be corrected for capitalization. Should “mikoto” have a capital “M”? (The other two entries in the list, “Izanagi-no-Mikoto” and “Izanami-no Mikoto”, have it capitalized.)
:“Susanoo-no-mikoto, the sea and storms god”
===Copyediting Conclusion===
I have completed the copyediting on this article. Please direct any questions or concerns to my talk page. It was a pleasure working on the article! David Thibault (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyediting Queries

message: I have completed the copyediting on this article. Please direct any questions or concerns to my talk page. It was a pleasure working on the article! David Thibault (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyediting Conclusion

message: What is this? Seems to apply to humans too? Arlo James Barnes 07:08, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  shinkai 

message: why does this article have flag of Israel as its image 5.22.128.196 (talk) 07:09, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no clue what you are talking about Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 13:34, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The preview image was changed to the flag of Israel through vandalism to a module. It was reverted quickly but remained in the cache for some pages. I've purged the cache for this page so it should be fixed now. Nardog (talk) 06:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  image of israel? 

message: The redirect Kami, Iran has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Kami, Iran]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]