Talk:Batman: The Killing Joke

message: Didn’t she retire as batgirl shortly before, not due to, the events in this story (hence why she was picked to be shot; it wouldn’t affect her as much as other characters)? Can anyone with a more comprehensive way of checking comic timelines confirm this as true or false..? Ayries (talk) 10:15, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Barbara Gordon…

message: I've just cut the below from the Brian Bolland page as it belongs here. is there anything that needs to be merged into this article that isn't already present?
The Killing Joke, published in 1988, details a possible (now almost entirely assumed as canonical) origin story for the villain The Joker, as being a failed stand-up comedian. The story also delves deep into the interaction between the Batman, Commissioner James Gordon, and Gordon's daughter Barbara (formerly Batgirl, now known as the technological genius Oracle). The finer points of the Joker/Batman dichotomy, and how each are on the brink between madness and sanity is ably explored, and the ending has become a slight point of contention over the off-panel happenings, with some fans suggesting that the Batman murders the Joker.
quercus robur 19:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cut from Brian Bolland page

message: I just flagged the "Themes" section for Original Research.  It is completely unsourced (the article has no references), and reads like it's just someone's interpretation made into a quasi-essay.  Cheers --DarthBinky 02:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing this, I diligently set out to Google Books to find some printed material.  Luckily, the first two results were gold (query: "Batman 'Killing Joke'" -- 55 hits total).  Unfortunately, they were for the "Critical reception" section instead.  More tomorrow.  --zenohockey 04:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any followup to this?  If not, I think it'd be more appropriate to remove the section, well-written as it may be.  Bhamv 10:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate the 'well-written', because I think I started that section a few years ago. I can't really claim credit for most of the better parts that have no doubt come since. I can verify that it was not sourced, I just made most of that stuff up, although I think a lot of it is obvious if you read it. Nonetheless, I guess we have to respect the wikipedia policy, so feel free to remove it.Tristanreid (talk) 16:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There actually does look to be much more on Google Books than when I checked two years ago. I'll go through it again shortly. --zenohockey (talk) 00:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

text: There. Problem solved. --zenohockey (talk) 01:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent. Nicely done. Tristanreid (talk) 14:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Themes" and original research 

message: Unnamed Editor: I chose to remove the "(possibly indicating that he does not want to return to sanity)" from the second-to-last sentence, as it is an unverified speculation without any source
Anonymous: Changed the last sentence of the plot summary to reflect the ambiguity of the final frames. It is uncertain if the laugther is coming only from Batman, as was previously claimed. The actual panal shows no word bubbles, and the text of the laughter is not connected to either figure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.30.98.6 (talk) 19:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot Summary

message: That section seems a bit disorganized. The thing with Barbara Gordon getting shot and it's impact is mentioned twice. The sections regarding the two movies are separated. It should be rearranged so it isn't repetitive and flows better. --76.103.226.21 (talk) 04:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical reception and legacy clean-up

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 15:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.--Oneiros (talk) 13:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: Can we change this ending a bit? The final frames are intentionally ambiguous. The reader can't tell if the Joker is laughing alone, Batman is lauging alone, if both are laughing, if Batman is placing his hand on the Joker's shoulder or grabbing his throat, etc. The purpose of the ending is to be unclear. Our current summary makes it look cut-and-dry. --74.95.86.182 (talk) 14:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not ambiguous. Both are shown laughing. Nightscream (talk) 20:43, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Alan Moore's script is clear. The two are laughing until the police arrive. It is not ambiguous. Just because Grant Morrison says something does not make it so. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 17:42, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

text: In the recording you linked, Morrison only says that Bolland hinted. Morrison's interpretation of a hint is not confirmation of anything. It's his opinion. He's not a primary source. A hint is not proof. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 18:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary Ending 

message: Jaz Coleman, the vocalist of Killing Joke, has mentioned in interviews that the appearance/characteristics of the Joker in this comic book have been modelled after his physical appearance and stage persona.
Is there validity to this and if yes, should it be included in the article?
--NeuroCatalyst (talk) 20:56, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Joker (and his appearance and characteristics) was invented in 1940, and the modern incarnation (homicidal maniac and all that) have been cemented since 1973.  Jaz Coleman was born in 1960, and his band didn't release its first album until 1980.  If he's honestly made this claim, he's an imbecile. 214.3.138.234 (talk) 13:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost a year later I coincidentally stumbled across one of the interviews I mentioned again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfaIDGfzKo0&feature=related around the 10 minute mark Jaz talks about the Joker connection --NeuroCatalyst (talk) 14:57, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

text:  "Feminism as I'm aware of isn't in the practice of critiquing comic books" - This isn't the case. Feminist and gender theory is a major part of critical discussion of art. That goes for movies, literature, comic books, anything. There's a lot of feminist criticism of this work, so it should be covered. Popcornduff (talk) 17:11, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joker modelled after Jaz Coleman? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Where does the title come from? Is it connected to or inspired by the band Killing Joke?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.48.38.175 (talk) 23:25, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is it worth mentioning the title itself led to an agreement between DC and the band - Killing Joke - that they could use a few pieces of Batman artwork on their releases, in return for using their name as the title?  For reference, there's an image of Batman on their 12" single release of "America" and also a section of his cape on the cover of "Outside The Gate", their album released at the same time as the single.  I don't have any sources/citations but any intrepid Wikipedian should be able to track them down easily enough. SamXT (talk) 22:37, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If such material is accompanied by reliable, verifiable secondary sources explicitly cited in the article text in the form of an inline citation, (which are explained here), then yes, it can be added. Nightscream (talk) 19:54, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Jaz Coleman connection 

message: Curious that the actual joke isn't listed. This site is for information, and this is a huge missing piece. Skaizun (talk) 00:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This site is an encyclopedia. This we are restricted to summarizing information rather than include excessive detail. The information we do include should be encyclopedic, and adhere to the site's copyright concerns. Th  joke is mentioned at the end of the plot summary, but if you want to read it in its entirely, it's best to read the book, or perhaps find a site hosting it or the panels in which the Joker tells it. Nightscream (talk) 15:47, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  So, what IS the "killing joke"???