Talk:Voluntary student unionism/Archive 1

message: how many universities would be effected by Federal enactment of VSU? PMA 10:26, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Impact

message: The article states (or should state):
*Liberal Students argue strongly for VSU on the basis of freedom of association and other grounds;
*They deny the charge that they are arguing for VSU on the basis of political disadvantage for their opponents;
*VSU advocates on the other hand consistently and routinely accuse Liberals of  supporting the change for political motivations.
I will undo any changes to the article that do not substantially agree with this situation, as it is simply a matter of objective fact, favouring no particular side. Lacrimosus 05:17, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Motivations of the ALSF

message: The words "This fee is often equal to the union membership fee - in this case, the benefit of 'voluntary membership' is questionable."?
What part of this do you disagree with?
Student Unions do often make a big deal that under the current system you may object and lose membership. However _many_ unis make you pay a fee equal to the guild fee. What do you see as the benefit of 'voluntary membership' under this system? Sure, if you are rabidly opposed to the idealogy of unions you might prefer this. From what I've seen VSU supporters are more opposed to the fee. Making the new fee equal to the guild fee removes the financial incentive to be an objector.
:Specifically, now the article itself is describing it as "questionable".  If someone else notable calls it "questionable", they can be cited as such in the relevant section.  Value judgements should be avoided unless they are attributed.
::Fair enough, I will try and edit that.
:In response to your arguments about the utility or otherwise of voluntary membership, the point made by the anti-VSU crew is that membership is currently voluntary, regardless of whether that's "beneficial" or not. Thus, "VSU" is something of a misnomer. Pro-VSU arguments based on freedom of association and so forth thus are not valid, in this view.  VSU proposals are more technically anti-service fee proposals than anti-compulsory membership proposals.
:The reasons people opt out of student union membership usually include religious or ideological motivations.  That's for them to decide and justify.  Likewise, the reason that VSU advocates wish to abolish upfront student amenity fees is for them to justify.  Slac speak up! 01:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Utility of voluntary membership

message: Whoever edited this, good job, you have gone a long way towards tightening this up and bringing it closer to true neutrality.
Id suggest, if you have the inclination, a couple of further changes:
Firstly, the bit near the beginning speaking of the most vocal pro's being a bunch of Liberal groups - id remove that altogether and change it to something like "The introduction of VSU generally recieves it's strongest support from conservative groups who are ideologically opposed to compulsory membership of collective organisations, while the strongest opposition comes from blah blah blah - you get the idea"
Then, id tack all the groups mentioned at the start as supporting VSU down the bottom with the other group's positions, so in one fell swoop we have removed the slightly clumsy and unbalanced bit at the start and balanced up the "other groups" section which is currently all about Anti VSU groups. Perhaps we could have a counter to the NUS position down there?
Good effort on the last edit though :)
Mandurahmike
:I actually don't think the article has improved much. The new sections do make for a more interesting analysis. However, I am concerned that there is in a few places (I stress, few) a smidgen of pro-VSU bias. In particular, the beer example bears little relevance, and could be replaced by another. At the very least, it needs rewording for neutrality. However, I wish not to be involved in any controversy, and I haven't the time to both improve the article and fend off attacks.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 10:41, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Cyberjunkie; the style is much improved, but it has introduced some cases of pro-VSU bias. Ambi 07:19, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Much better than it was.