Talk:Holy Land

message: I took out the line "Jerusalem is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible over 700 times and has only ever been the Capital of a Jewish State." Given the considerable stretches of history where no Jewish state existed, this statement is slightly inaccurate.
Is "Holy Land" used only by Christians? Does the equivalent translations get used by Jews, Muslims, Bahais,...? -- Error
why is this artical only about the muslum use of the word?  shouldn't part be on the Chrisian and Jewish uses?  or any other religion that may use the phrase (assuming of course that there are others)?T-rex 18:19, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Is it your claims that Arḍ ul-Quds and al-Quds are the same thing? Jayjg 17:13, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't hear your pronunciation though that white block coming out your mouth. If you mean "Ard". Ard is land. al-Quds is holy and refers to the holy places of Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. The land of the holy places does not change definition for Muslims even during periods of foreign occupation by Crusaders or Zionists. --Alberuni 17:35, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The article here says that the term for Holy Land is "Arḍ ul-Quds".  The Jerusalem article says that the term for Jerusalem is "al-Quds".  Now, we know that the region of Meccan and Medina is called "Arḍ ul-Quds"; the question is, it Jerusalem ever called that, or is it simply called "al-Quds"? Jayjg 17:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't take my word for it. Go ask a Muslim, if you can find one who will talk to you. --Alberuni 17:44, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: So are you saying "yes", Jerusalem is referred to as "--165.139.198.19 (talk) 18:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, that makes sense.  (It's an LDS convention as well, but it's not the sole reason it makes sense to me.) - Gilgamesh 01:11, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "The word Al-Quds, as mentioned in the authoriative Arab Dictionary, Lisanul-Arab (Arab Tongue) under the stem Quds means glorification of Allah."; why do you say it means "holy"?  And how do you respond to the statement that "Ard al-Quds" refers to "Land of Jerusalem", not "Holy Land"? Do you have any links which translate it this way (aside from Wikipedia based ones)? Jayjg 15:41, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: Thanks, but I'm not sure where this leaves us; would an Arab speaker understand "Ard al Quds" as meaning "land of Jerusalem" or "Holy Land"?  Is there any other way of saying "Holy Land" in Arabic? Interesting about Qodesh, by the way.  Jayjg 16:37, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: In the Qur'an, Holy Land refers to the Levant, the land of Jerusalem where Musa (Moses) led his followers. Non-Muslims seem very intent on excluding Muslims from the Holy land by claiming that "the Muslims holy land is Saudi Arabia, not Palestine". I would estimate that the term "Holy Land" is used today by English-speaking Muslims to refer to Palestine 99% of the time and the Hijaz maybe 1% of the time, for instance, : "The twin cities of Makkah and Medina are in the province of Hijaz. Hijaz, therefore, is the holy land of Islam." Perhaps Muslims are more spiritual and less material than those who think that the Holy Land is more holy to them than others. "Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said that Abu'd-Darda wrote to Salman al-Farsi, "Come immediately to the holy land." Salman wrote back to him, "Land does not make anyone holy. Man's deeds make him holy." (Muwatta Hadith #37.8.7)  --Alberuni 18:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: No, obviously it's our resident fanatic Zionist who wishes to relegate the Muslim Holy land to any place other than the Holy Land that has been occupied by Zionists. --Alberuni 19:10, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: According to Osama bin Ladin, "For more than seven years the United States is occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of its territories, Arabia, plundering its riches, overwhelming its rulers, humiliating its people, threatening its neighbors, and using its bases in the peninsula as a spearhead to fight against the neighboring Islamic peoples."  Many other sources, feel the same way, such as: "To begin with, we say that the hostile, treacherous, and lowly conduct of the Najd and al-Hijaz rulers practically removes the sanctity of the holy land because it was turned into a scene for the infidel Americans and their British allies who use this land as a springboard for the daily attacks on the sincere believers in great Iraq.  "in the Holy Land of Hijaz"  "According to Prophetic tradition, the Arabian Peninsula is sacred territory. Non-Muslims are forbidden to set foot there. The sanctity of this sacred territory has been violated since the emergence of the House of Saud in control of the Haramain... How this monstrosity came to be imposed on such a holy land of Islam is a story that needs to be told in detail."  "the holy land of Hijaz."  "The twin cities of Makkah and Medina are in the province of Hijaz. Hijaz, therefore, is the holy land of Islam." . etc.  These Muslim voices and many others are quite emphatic that the Hijaz is the "Holy Land" of Islam; many other Muslim sources referring to Israel as the Holy Land appear to be following older English convention rather than making a religious claim. Jayjg 19:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: The usage doesn't seem "much more rare" to me, perhaps you'd like to look at that. Jayjg 19:07, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ar&#7693; ul-Quds and al-Quds the same thing? 

message: In "Al Ard AlMouqaddassa" though the words used are 'holy land' - the text is a metaphor - & actually infers to mean the 'blessed land' with God's prevailed guidance & prophets. God has used the former wording to show his affinity, {as an elderly giving advice to a young may say "Son..." but he may not be his actual son but he used it to show his caringness for the other} being the second-most blessed spot on Earth {& also the nearest to the First Firmament} after Makkah, the most-beloved spot on Earth to God as per Hadith {& the first spot chosen by God as a place for His worship {where Adam will build the first House for His worship upon descending on Earth for his progeny - the mankind} when it appeared as a foam on molten Earth  & the first spot to solidify on the molten Earth as per Hadith}. There is nothing really 'holy' in existence except God, "AlQouddous" - the All-Holy - in the original sense of the meaning, because He is the only one who can create (out of nothing - that's why He is the Most Blessed) {& anything else -even a land - cannot create nor bless itself} & He can only bless & the blessedness of everything else is an outcome of a decision by God to bless it & is dependent upon His Blessedness as He is the source of blessedness. A blessed thing is which multiplies its utility beyond its means by God's Will.ILAKNA (talk) 09:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Al Ard AlMouqaddassa" means Blessed Land & the word 'holy' is a metaphor

message: in English, which is mentioned in the article. Also the transliteration 'Lout' connotes of an unpositive meaning in English,  unbecoming  for the Prophet Lot, a prophet of God. The transliteration 'Luoth' does not carry any adverse connotation in English.ILAKNA (talk) 14:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Luoth (لوت) is closer to the arabic sound than the transliteration : 'Lout' 

message: The term is sometimes used when a speaker wishes to use neither "Israel" nor "Palestine" for the region, since either term can be considered as giving a specific religious group (Jews and Muslims, respectively) the right of ownership. - This seems to be WP:OR. It could be [mis]understood in the sense that when someone uses this term, s/he makes a statement.  BTW, is this "ownership" related to real estate, or is it religious or political? ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR? 

message: I have some objections:
First of all, the article describes a lot of historical and little religious significance. For example, whereas Humus Sapiens asked me to back the holiness of the land in Islam with Quran, there is not a single verse from the TOrah or the Talmud, or any other scripture that Jews hold holy. 
Secondly, by mentioning "archeological evidence", is the author trying to prove something??? 
Thirdly, once again, what does the expulsion of Jews, changing the name of the land have to do with this?? Unless, there is clear link made from it to a specific tenet of Judaism, it should not be there.
I like the last two lines.  I think more should be mentioned about Jerusalem, Hebron, the wailing wall, the miracle of Hanukkah, etc..
: I don't see the basis for the "objections" above, let's see what others say. There are some Torah and Tanakh quotes in the article Religious significance of Jerusalem#Jerusalem in Torah and Tanakh. Also, I disagree with alphabetical sectioning. It is against chronological order and seems illogical. ←Humus sapiens ну? 12:00, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with Humus sapiens. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 17:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The Judaism section shows (or provides further references to) the significance of the Holy Land in Judaism, and explains the ties between the Jewish people and the Holy Land throughout the Jewish history. Of course the question: "if it is so holy to Jews, then why many of them live someplace else?" is legitimate, therefore we need to address it. Remember to assume good faith. ←Humus sapiens ну? 02:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never asked the question of Jews living outside the Holy Land, I'm sorry if that's how you interpreted my comments. I'll assume good faith, provided that the Jewish section doesn't get too agressive, esp. when someone tries to "prove" a religious perspective.
172.166.214.81 19:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is wrong to take this as a some kind of competition. Our job here should not be to check that "the Jewish section doesn't get too agressive" but to present encyclopedic facts. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  objections to the jewish section 

message: This is POV. There are many people/beliefs who have a holy land. Jeroenvrp 15:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to declare this article POV. It's 100% jewish-christian-islamic-centric to claim the title "Holy Land". Jeroenvrp 18:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is just bickering, this is not rational, again if no rational is given the tag will have to be removed--T-rex 02:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 100% rational. You're acussing of me being bickering, that's not rational. Holy lands exists all around the globe, that's a fact. So the article should also mention other religions and start with a general introduction (see Dutch interwiki link) - Jeroenvrp 10:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I just looked at the dutch page, and it isn't as good as this one actually.  and you still havn't given a reason why this is POV --T-rex 18:06, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: "The Holy Land" always is preceded by "the." Simply "holy land," is confusing because land can be holy without it being THE holy land of the Bible. When I initially searched for this article, I searched for "The holy land," and came across an album (which I moved, placed on the disambig. page, then redirected here). So, if nobody objects, I'm moving this article to The Holy Land and redirect Holy Land to that article. Robocracy 00:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any further comments should be made on that article's talk page. Robocracy 00:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title of the article 

message: The words 'few months' in the article; "For a few months, Jerusalem was the first qibla (direction of prayer) in Islam, .." are incorrect. Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem was the first Islamic Qibla since the beginning of the final revelation in 610AD until whole of his stay in Makkah for a period of 13years, & as a due consideration to the Kaaba, the ancient house & the first house sanctioned by God on Earth for His worship since Adam, the Prophet would pray south of Kaaba facing North the direction of Palestine, to get Kaaba between him & the direction of the Al Aqsa Mosque (ie. the spot of it, because the building follows the spot). And Al Aqsa Mosque remained the qibla until 18 months after Hijra or migration to Madina, when leading an afternoon prayers a few kilometers west of Madina in a mosque now known as 'Al Qiblatain Mosque' (or Mosque of Two Qiblas), he was facing north to Palestine, when he had completed two rakahs, the angel Gabriel revealed to him Q:2:144 God commanding him to turn his face to the Al Haraam Mosque ( or the Sanctified Mosque, also called the 'Grand Mosque' in English) as qibla & the rest of the Muslims, so he immediately turned facing South to Makkah & moved through the congregation to lead them from the other side & so the rest of the congregation turned back after him & completed the balance of the two rakahs facing south to Makkah as per the Prophetic Hadeeth. So Al Aqsa mosque was Muslims' first qibla for the initial 14 years & 6 months from the start of the revelation until 624AD or 2AH. This was as a confirmation from God of the previous revelations of Torah & Injeel (Gospel) & which were local revelations & that Al Aqsa Mosque was a local qibla, & that this culminating & final & last & prevailing revelation was for the whole humanity - all of the progeny of Adam, so the Qibla of Adam had to be reverted back & was the most suitable & the most eligible being the most ancient house & the first house of worship sanctioned by God for His worship as a universal qibla for the whole mankind & under His Religion of Islam approved by Him for the whole mankind to qualify for His Reward of Paradise who follow his instructions in this life-of-test to submit their will to His Will for the harmony of life on this planet being in harmony with the nature of His Creation of everything. ILAKNA (talk) 19:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Al Aqsa Mosque Islamic Qibla since start of the revelation until 18 months after Hijra

message: there are holy lands beyond the abrahamic religions..... India is also a holy land! Zazaban 21:18, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sure many cultures call their land holy. As I understand it, yhis article is about The Holy Land as commonly accepted in the English language. Perhaps you want to edit Holy Land (disambiguation) and/or List of holy cities. ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindu/Buddhist holy land. 

message: Currently these articles have almost the same content, with the only substantial difference being that Holy Land contains a brief Islamic POV and the Holy Land (Biblical) article appears to largely reflect a Christian point of view but otherwise be very similar to the Jewish and Christian sections of the Holy Land article. If this is the only difference, suggest merging the articles so that all content ends up in the Holy Land article. If the intention is for Holy Hand to reflect additional peoples/religions, suggest restructuring so that the two articles don't contain massive repetitions of content. Best, --Shirahadasha 21:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is obviously about the same place and the same concept. We cannot ignore the fact that the Qur'an does not refer to Jerusalem as being a holy city. JFW | T@lk 22:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:29, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm for merger for reasons stated. --Steven J. Anderson 00:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Merge. There shouldn't be much discussion on this. As said above, these articles are about the same topic and contain large amounts of similar information. Merge Holy Land (Biblical) into Holy Land and redirect the former to the latter. Truthanado 01:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. These are two articles about the same subject.  Hult041956 22:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Ending discussion, decision was Merge --Shirahadasha (talk) 00:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger of [[Holy Land]] and [[Holy Land (Biblical)]] 

message: I believe that the land shoud be called Israel, and not Palestine, as it is officially called today. any reference, however about the gaza area, or the west bank may still be in question, but in general naming the land "Palestine" is quite outdated, or biased.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokoleo (talk • contribs) 19:48, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israel/Palestine 

message: Isnt there a sort of secular usage for this term. Its somewhat in a religious context, but I have seen history books and whatnot use it. Perhaps there should be some mention of that under "Secular usage".--Metallurgist (talk) 21:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Secular usage 

message: I've removed the following discussion from the article, as it is too detailed a discussion of what is only one small aspect of the holiness of the land from the Jewish perspective:
The Mishnah tractate Avodah Zarah 19b forbids the sale of real estate in Israel to non-Jews. The Gemara explains that this prohibition is derived from the Biblical injunction "to tehanem" in Deuteronomy 7:2, which, according to rabbinic exegesis, is to be understood as meaning "You shall not grant them permanent encampment" (haniyah).J. David Bleich, Contemporary halakhic problems, KTAV Publishing House, Inc., 1977, p.28 Rambam in his Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 10:4, amplifies this statement with the explanation, "For if they will not own land, their inhabitance will be temporary.", while  Ramban, in his commentary on Leviticus 25:23, finds that conveyance of land to a non-Jew involves yet another transgression of not allowing all fields to revert to their original owners in the jubilee year. Even when the land is not worked during the Shmita year, it may not be sold to a non-Jew, even through an agent.J. David Bleich, Contemporary halakhic problems, KTAV Publishing House, Inc., 1977, p.30 Ramban however points out that the verse in Leviticus concludes with "for the land is Mine," explaining that in actuality the land given to the People of Israel is the possession of God, and that they are permitted to dwell in, and derive enjoyment from it, only by virtue of its gift. 
Accordingly, this passage gives expression to the divine will that Israel be the homeland of the Jewish people and that they not be displaced by foreign land-owners. According to Ramban, the purchase of land in Israel from a non-Jew constitutes a fulfillment of the commandment "You shall give a redemption unto the land" (Lev.25:24).J. David Bleich, Contemporary halakhic problems, KTAV Publishing House, Inc., 1977, p.29 Rabbi Bakshi-Duran argues that, according to Ramban, another verse "And you shall inherit the land and dwell therein" (Deut. 11:31) is another source against the sale of dwellings or fields in Israel to a non-Jew. According to Ramban, this verse is not just a prophetic prognostication, or a divine promise, but constitutes a positive commandment.
By the way, Avoda Zarah 19b does not forbid sale to non-Jews, but only raises this as one possible interpretation of the command on the Israelites against showing mercy to the Cananites that they were to conquer.Jdkag (talk) 22:34, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selling land of Israel to Non-Jews 

message: These comments were also removed from the article as not related directly to the concept of holiness:
In the Hebrew Bible, Jerusalem and the Land of Israel are considered inseparable parts of a divine gift, part of several covenants. Jerusalem has long been embedded into Jewish religious consciousness in part due to the commandments, such as the bringing of the Omer to the Temple during the period between Pesakh and Shavuot. Jews have studied and personalized the struggle by King David to capture Jerusalem in his desire to build the Jewish temple there, as described in the Book of Samuel and the Book of Psalms, in part because offerings for the Temple were brought from the lands nearest to Jerusalem, mostly located in the portion of the Tribe of Judah. 
The concept of the land being holy is especially prominent in the Book of Numbers. Some commentators also regard the land to be holy because God's "holy people" settled there. At the end of Joshua, the land was distributed among the Israelite tribes and the promise to Abraham is fulfilled and the land becomes the Holy Land.John Goldingay, Theological Diversity and the Authority of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1995), p. 68. Since the Roman retribution for several Jewish revolts culminating with the Bar Kokhba's revolt following their occupation of Judaea, Jews have sought to remain in, or return to this land for over 1,600 years.Jdkag (talk) 22:34, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significance of Israel to Jews 

message: Hello everybody. I think that the first sentence of the lead is totally of topic, and the second sentence is imo inaccurate. “Holy Land” as the name for the land Jews call(ed) “Eretz Israel”, and which was called “Palestine” by Europeans both Christian and Jewish, as well as by Muslims, Hindus, Buddist and what not all over the world for centuries prior to the establishment of the modern State of Israel, is primarily a Christian term, not a Jewish term. (Note that I'm only speaking about the use of the name “Holy Land” in European languages such as English, French, German etc. I'm leaving out the Arabic and Muslim question because I don't know anything about it, and as far as I've seen in the threads above, it is covered by users who do.) For Jews, “Eretz Israel” is not the “Holy Land”, but the “Promised Land”. Jerusalem is holy, and in some beliefs, this holyness of Jerusalem extends to a wider area, but Ir HaQodesh, the Holy City, is Jerusalem, and that's it. One can argue about the so called other “holy” cities such as Tiberias or Safed, but the only holy place on earth for Judaism is Jerusalem. (That is precisly how the priority of the Jewish claim to Jerusalem over the other claims is usually explained, Jerusalem is not only a holy place for Judaism, but it is the only holy place for Jews, whereas Christians and Muslims both have other holy places, and some which are holier than Jerusalem such as Mekka and Medina.) Accordingly, there is, as the article states, no mention of a holy Land in the Hebrew Bible. And the article does not cite one single Jewish source which uses the term. I guess that is a first in Jewish history. The sentence in the lead “The Holy Land (Hebrew: ארץ הקודש‎; Eretz HaQodesh ; Arabic: الأرض المقدسة Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah) is a term which in Judaism refers to the Kingdom of Israel as defined in the Tanakh” is therefore misleading, to put it mildly, as it suggests a biblical significance of the term, and a significance within Judaism which it simply does not have. The holyness attributed to the land, particularly the part which is called “occupied Palestinian territories” by the international community, by some (national) religious (Israeli) Jews, is in fact Christian influenced, not genuinly Jewish, although they themselves would be horrified, if they knew, how Christian their beliefs, including the Messianism, actually are. The second sentence of the lead is IMO quite a joke, as it says that “the term "Holy Land" is also used by ... Christians” (my emphasis). Please note that I leave the Muslims out for the above mentioned reason. The first paragraph IMO needs complete rewriting, and the rest needs readjusting. Any suggestions? Ajnem (talk) 09:20, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: These two articles cover the same topic but in two different ways. Both are short articles, and could easily be merged without loss of clarity. The "promise" to Abraham and his descendants is what made the land "Holy" to the Abrahamic religions, so this would integrate elegantly. Oncenawhile (talk) 21:04, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Greyshark, your second sentence is in direct contradiction to the first sentence of this article which says that "Holy Land... (Eretz HaQodesh)... is a term... in Judaism". Anyway, I agree they are obviously not exact synonyms, my point is simply that they are similar enough (and short enough) to be well covered in one article. There is quite a lot of duplication at the two articles as they stand. Oncenawhile (talk) 17:38, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: changed to Oppose - reading again the articles, it strikes me that Promised land should be merged into Land of Israel. This merger proposal is not taking into account the difference in Jewish and Christian meaning of the concept.GreyShark (dibra) 19:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Greyshark, a merger into Land of Israel would be confusing. The term Promised Land (Ha'Aretz HaMuvtahat) refers to the promises made in the five books of the Torah. The term Land of Israel (Eretz Y'israel) refers to the references in the Nevi'im. In addition, Land of Israel has a significant modern political usage. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:14, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have enough Jewish friends to know of the issue deeply enough. Cheers.GreyShark (dibra) 18:02, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. I am happy to discuss if you disagree. This Talk:Land_of_Israel#It_seems_merger_suggestion_with_.27.22promised_land.22_is_not_valid may be useful. Oncenawhile (talk) 21:46, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Promised Land and the Land of Israel are indeed the same, but you will find no article for Holy Land in Hebrew, because Eretz haKodesh is rarely used in same meaning as Holy Land for Christians.GreyShark (dibra) 19:06, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose the merge. Reading about the two articles more and examining Greyshark's points, I've changed my mind. Thanks. Shalom11111 (talk) 02:30, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Oppose. Whilst they may be superficially similar, the terms are used differently in terms of history, theology and geography. For example, "Holy Land" is used to refer to the Christian/Muslim ruled territory in the Middle Ages and generically today to the lands of the Bible, whilst "Promised Land" is a defined area promised to Abraham. AFAIK neither are geographically identical with the modern state of Israel or with each other. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger of [[Promised Land]] into [[Holy Land]] 

message: Propose to merge Holiness of Palestine -> Holy Land
I don't see how holiness of Palestine, holiness of Israel or holiness of Judea cannot be described under the topic of holy land, which is the same topic.GreyShark (dibra) 13:58, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I support it. Holy Land and Palestine (region) are different names of the same area, so this merge would be a step toward elimination of duplication. “WarKosign” 17:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Completely agree. Let's remove duplication wherever possible. This seems like an easy one. Oncenawhile (talk) 17:16, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely disagree, unless the names Holy Land and Palestine are given equal weight in the title.  Palestine is an evocative name amongst many religions and must not be lost as a result of any merge.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnmcintyre1959 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you had a look at Holiness of Palestine you surely noticed that it only explains how Palestine (also known as Land of Israel) is holy to Judaism. Holy Land discusses how the same area is holy to all the Abrahamic religions, including Judaism. What exactly does the name Palestine evoke ? “WarKosign” 20:19, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really sure how the name "Palestine" would be lost when we still have the articles Palestine (region), State of Palestine and Palestinian territories. Richard3120 (talk) 06:02, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of [[Holiness of Palestine]]

message: I am correcting an edit that makes it look as if Mecca is a Mosque, rather than a city. Leo1pard (talk) 05:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mecca is not a Mosque, but a city 

message: the talmudic jews always said eretz yisrael in purpose to make it clear --79.181.35.152 (talk) 03:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously the use of the word Palestine in the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia is a translation of "Eretz Yisrael" and should be translated "Israel" or - even better - "the Holy Land". The really galling thing is the incorrect claim that on Wikipedia we must follow the language of our source. That is a blatant lie, see e.g. WP:PARAPHRASE. The easy way out is replacing those sources by other ones. It is a shame we have to deal will editors of such low morale repute they will do anything to push their POV. Debresser (talk) 16:50, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Here is a more accurate translation: "Anyone who walks four cubits in Eretz Yisrael is assured of a place in the World-to-Come" “WarKosign” 20:10, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  historical eretz yisrael not palestine 

message: I'm proposing removing the reference to a quote in a book by Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld because 1) the term "non-Ptolemaic" is ambiguous(at best) to modern readers and 2) because Nordenskiöld's quote is incorrect based on all possible uses of the term. As such, it detracts from the value of the page rather than improve it. 
Usage 1: "Ptolemaic" refers Ptolemy's geocentric model where the earth is at the center of the universe with the sun, moon, and planets revolving around it. This usage does not apply to cartography.
Usage 2: "Ptolemaic" refers to a map of this type produced using the coordinates found in Ptolemy's Geography and/or reproductions of Geography  Extant maps known to have used Geography date from the 13th century (earlier maps are assumed but do not survive) and the coordinates in his work were a popular source for cartographers through the 18th century. Norkenskiold's quote in this context is incorrect. There are surviving examples of earlier "non-Ptolemaic map of a definite country" NOT produced using Ptolemy as reference. See the St. Albans maps (4 maps of Britain) by Matthew_Paris which were created in the mid-13th century(at least 50 years prior to Vesconte map). Per J. B. Mitchell,  "in no case does it appear necessary to postulate a genetic connection to the St. Alban's maps in the Britain of the map designs by Ptolemy..." (The Geographical Journal Vol. 81, No. 1 (Jan., 1933))
Usage 3: "Ptolemaic" refers to a type of conical projection. This usage is very rare and not precise. Note: Ptolemy himself did not use his conical projection in his works exclusively. Even if this usage was Vesconte's intent, it is not accurate. See: example in Usage 2, which is NOT a map using a conical projection.
To review, there are no possible ways that the statement, that the Vesconte map is "the first non-Ptolemaic map of a definite country" is historically accurate. As explained above, it is also not clear what Norkenskiold is attempting to describe, especially without the context.  Including this statement does not improve the value of this page. 
Note: The Vesconte map is certainly unique and should be included in this page, but if an historical or technical attribute is necessary to attach to it, certainly we can do better than what is currently included.
Chuck-sum (talk) 18:01, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pietro Vesconte Map Description 

message: Hello all,
I just wanted to discuss the appropriateness of removing content citing a polemical op-ed titled “ The myth of al-Aqsa
Holiness of Jerusalem to Islam has always been politically motivated”. The source was used as a reference to a very vague claim that says that : “some modern scholars” claim that the entire mention of the holy land in Islamic scripture is completely false and misinterpreted and “politically motivated” as the title suggests. 
The actual article cited is an op-Ed from the Israeli newspaper Ynet, presents a polemic case against any Islamic connection for the holy land, and further mentions derogatory claims regarding Islam. This is clearly not a reliable secondary source by any means and is a biased polemic work that in its self doesn’t actually cite or specify any secondary sources and does not mention who these “modern scholars,” are, thus can’t be used as a source. 
The claim mentioned is extremely vague and doesn’t actually inform or contribute to the purpose of the subsection, which is to explain the importance of the holy land in Islam. It only serves as polemic account that attempts to disregard any connections between the holy land and Islam.
Also the author of the polemic oped is Mordechai Kedar, who is extremely biased and well known in his anti-Islamic anti-palestinain rhetoric, according to his Wikipedia article he once said regarding suicide bombers "the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught." He also was accused of associating with anti-Islamic figure pamela gelled in the UK, as well promoting conspiracy theories, that prime minister Yitzhak Rabin wasn’t killed but Igal Amir. He has also stated "Jerusalem belongs to the Jews, period" thus disregarding any connection other people’s Have with the city, including any Islamic connection. 
Thus having an unreliable source as an op-Ed that doesn’t even cite any of its sources and is used polemically to bias the subsection rather than actually inform and having an author with clear anti-Islamic stances, who believes Islam has no connection to the holy land, And his work for a very short and general section regarding the importance of the holy land in Islam is quite biased and Inappropriate  for this kind of article and section.
If you all find more polemic works used to bias any of the sections rather than present cited information, please bring up this issue on the talk pages and remove the inappropriate content.
Than you,
Thinktank9238327 (talk) 07:11, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hasn't this already been removed? On the other hand, the removal removed another sentence, that was not sourced to that article, "The present building of Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem had not been built in Muhammad's day, and the Quran does not contain any other reference to Jerusalem, apart from the reference to the change of the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca.", and I think it is important and should be restored. Debresser (talk) 14:23, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polemic bias in islam subsection 

message: TEXT: ====> Jews commonly refer to the Land of Israel as "The Holy Land" (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ הַקוֹדֵשׁ Eretz HaKodesh). However, the Tanakh explicitly refers to it as "holy land" in only one passage, Zechariah 2:16. The term "holy land" is further used twice in the deuterocanonical books. The holiness of the Land of Israel is generally implied in the Tanakh by the Land being given to the Israelites by God, that is, it is the "promised land", an integral part of God's covenant. <====
This entire set of sentences, now split by me from the following into a freestanding paragraph, is unsourced.
In what follows, only half a sentence has a source:
"In the Torah, many mitzvot commanded to the Israelites can only be performed in the Land of Israel,...."
The source is Ziegler p. 173. To make sure Ziegler doesn't cover more of the text, I have looked up the edit history. The source was added by Koakhtzvigad (stopped editing in 2012) on 21 April 2011, here, and he inserted it into an existing, fully unsourced paragraph, to which he only added a very specific topic of just half a sentence:
"In the Torah many mitzvot commanded to the Israelites and their descendants can only be performed in the Land of Israel using produce grown on the land owned by a Jew,...."
which was apparently reduced to what we have now.
That leads to the final conclusion that the entire remaining paragraph is unsourced.
To make it even a bit worse, currently the Ziegler book only has very few pages on Google Books, and none beyond p. 97 (so no p. 173). We need to take Koakhtzvigad by his word. Altogether, the Judaism chapter in the Holy Land article is massively undersourced. Arminden (talk) 17:15, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judaism: sources? 

message: The wording in the Christianity and Islam sections is a bit skeptic-leaning. ZNewPlayer2 (talk) 20:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  May or may not be anti-religious 

message: However, the Tanakh explicitly refers to it as "holy land" in only one passage, Zechariah 2:12. 67.140.177.42 (talk) 22:07, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2022 

message: I noticed there is a mistake in the second paragraph of the subheading Judaism. It stands "the Tanakh explicitly refers to it as "holy land" in only one passage, Zechariah 2:16" The correct one would be Zechariah 2:12! Thanks. slaiatalk 09:20, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not both? Iskandar323 (talk) 09:24, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please correct the mistake (I can't edit it as it's locked) 

message: Ummmmm...  maybe you give a CLEAR description on all the holy lands, like which countries at which times. 98.144.138.17 (talk) 15:06, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Um... 

message: Summary
In the passage discussing the historical significance of the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Islam, there appears to be an inconsistency regarding the qibla direction for Muslim prayer during the initial years after migration to Medina.
Explanation, part 1, minor changes
The passage first correctly states that "Muslims turned towards Al-Aqsa when they prayed for a period of 16 to 17 months after migration to Medina in 624;", because they also faced Al-Aqsa before that and just continued the practice during these months. It can be misleading, though, as it may imply there was a major shift during that time, whereas the major shift happened AFTER the 16 to 17 months. Here's a passage with better wording:
New version, part 1, minor changes
"The historical significance of the al-Aqsa Mosque in Islam is further emphasized by the continued practice of Muslims facing al-Aqsa when they prayed for a period of 16 to 17 months after their migration to Medina in 624;"
Explanation, part 2, major changes
However, the latter part of the original statement, indicating that this practice "thus became the qibla ('direction') that Muslims faced for prayer," appears to be inaccurate. Islamic historical records and traditions indicate that the qibla direction was eventually changed to face the Kaaba in Mecca. While the citation provided, a book titled 'States, Nations, and Borders: The Ethics of Making Boundaries,' may contain valuable insights, further cross-referencing with Islamic historical sources is advisable to ensure accuracy in portraying this aspect of Islamic history.
New version, part 2, major changes
"however, this practice took a major shift when the qibla was eventually changed to the Kaaba in Mecca, becoming the direction that Muslims faced for prayer."
New version, as a whole
"The historical significance of the al-Aqsa Mosque in Islam is further emphasized by the continued practice of Muslims facing al-Aqsa when they prayed for a period of 16 to 17 months after their migration to Medina in 624; however, this practice took a major shift when the qibla was eventually changed to the Kaaba in Mecca, becoming the direction that Muslims faced for prayer."
Citation
The citation provided, a book titled 'States, Nations, and Borders: The Ethics of Making Boundaries,' may indeed contain valuable information, but further cross-referencing with Islamic historical sources would help ensure accuracy in portraying this aspect of Islamic history.
New possible citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla
The qibla status of the Kaaba (or the Sacred Mosque in which it is located) is based on the verses 144, 149, and 150 of the al-Baqarah chapter of the Quran, each of which contains a command to "turn your face toward the Sacred Mosque" (fawalli wajhaka shatr al-Masjid il-Haram). According to Islamic traditions, these verses were revealed in the month of Rajab or Shaban in the second Hijri year (623 CE), or about 15 or 16 months after Muhammad's migration to Medina. Prior to these revelations, Muhammad and the Muslims in Medina had prayed towards Jerusalem as the qibla, the same direction as the prayer direction—the mizrah—used by the Jews of Medina. Islamic tradition says that these verses were revealed during a prayer congregation; Muhammad and his followers immediately changed their direction from Jerusalem to Mecca in the middle of the prayer ritual. The location of this event became the Masjid al-Qiblatayn ("The Mosque of the Two Qiblas").
PS.: there's even a passage that also states that inside the same paragraph of this mistake, that reads:
"Jerusalem was Islam's first Qiblah (direction of prayer) in Muhammad's lifetime, however, this was later changed to the Kaaba in the Hijazi city of Mecca, following a revelation to Muhammad by the Archangel Jibril." Woooosh (talk) 21:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction Needed for Passage about Al-Aqsa Mosque and Qibla Direction (citation 29) 

message: Change "Ahadith infer that the "Farthest Masjid" is in Al-Quds; for example, as narrated by Abu Hurairah:" to "Ahadith imply that the "Farthest Masjid" is in Al-Quds; for example, as narrated by Abu Hurairah:" BelievingPoet9 (talk) 20:12, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: no reason given for the proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 22:04, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2023 

message: 2A02:8428:50B:1A01:68BF:F546:23BC:D6A5 (talk) 10:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 (talk) 11:03, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 December 2023