Talk:List of dog breeds/Archive 4

message: I'm at it already!  I said I didn't want to edit, but I just can't help myself; after 10 years of this it's in my blood and I do it automatically. [Quill shakes head and sighs heavily.]
My question is, whom do I notify (and where) if I spot an error that I think needs fixing (other than a typo or something).
Case in point, I'm reading the Dog main article and this sentences strikes me:
:Mutts (or 'mongrels' in British English) are dogs that do not belong to specific breeds, instead being mixtures of two or more.
Actually, 'mongrel' is the proper term for a dog of undetermined origin in any of the English dialects, not just British. 'Mutt' is short for 'muttonhead' and is slang for an idiot as well as for a mongrel.
So, if I want to point out that something like this should be corrected, without insulting the author, to whose attention do I bring it?  Quill 00:55, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you don't have to notify anybody: this is a wiki, you can just fix it yourself--in fact, we'd appreciate it.  See Wikipedia:Why Wikipedia is so great. Eventually, the whole thing will improve. In this case, the best thing would be just to make your changes, with an edit summary like "mongrel is the correct term" or something. Meelar 01:01, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: um...okay...I just wanted to be sure since this is a project with a list of participants and I didn't know if that made a difference, and, basically, I'm a coward. - Quill 03:26, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it doesn't make a difference - it's still part of the Wikipedia, a Wikiproject is just an informal grouping of people with a shared interest really.  It helps the articles to have a group looking out for them that are aware of past discussions, but the wiki ethic of "edit away" still holds.  If you feel an edit will be particularly controversial then a careful edit summary and/or a note on the talk page can be helpful, but mostly just jump in and fix -- sannse (talk) 07:59, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who fixes Errors? 

message: I found a webpage with some terrific images of Japanese Terriers, a breed it's very hard to get a picture of. 
Here's my problem:  I was going to write to the author for permission to use them on Wikipedia, but there's no e-mail address.  There's an address for the webmaster, but that's it.
The webpage hasn't been updated since 2000.
Where do we stand on the use of these images, ie. can do or can't do?  Quill 23:38, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd go ahead & send email to the webmaster to see what you can find out. Sometimes there's still a live person there even if the site hasn't been updated. (*Someone* has to be paying to keep the site alive.)  If no response & you can't find out anything about them, then I believe we have to assume it's *not* a public-domain image and not use it.  Bummer, huh?  Elf | Talk 00:57, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, I didn't drop the ball on this one, I *did* write to the webmaster--no response!  Shame.... Quill 02:43, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Photographs 

message: There is a nice working dog article that is not in a category.  Where do we put it?
Also, let's link to this article whenever we notice the words 'working dog' or 'working breed' in an article.
:I've put it in :Category:Dog types, does that sound right to everyone? -- sannse (talk) 10:08, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup.  Elf | Talk 01:10, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Working Dog"--category? 

message: I see that Hephaestos changed the links for the corgi articles from Welsh Corgi (Type) to Type Corgi a while ago - I missed it at the time.  It's something we've discussed before on this page, and I said then that I felt the titles should be as usually used by the registries (as in Corgi (Type)).  I understand why Hephaestos changed them, it's not the usual way of titling articles, but in this case it is the conventional way of referring to the two breeds.  Unless anyone objects I would like to restore the old titles and move the articles back.  In the mean time, the articles should be listed alphabetically as well as cross-referenced so I've restored Anon's edits. -- sannse (talk) 19:29, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just going by this. - Hephaestos|§ 20:31, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corgis again 

message: ok, i just posted my article for the american pit bull terrier. it's not 100% complete (of course), nor is it all i plan on writing, but it's a good start. it's the longest thing i've written for wikipedia so far, so i'd like everyone's opinion on it. Lachatdelarue 01:48, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good!  Had a quick read; I seem to be brain dead, so I'll come back to it, but I made some suggestions at Talk:American Pit Bull Terrier  Quill 23:15, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  new article 

message: See Wikipedia:Requested_pictures#Dog_breeds; I'm working on filling in this list from existing articles; anyone else can feel free to do the same. :-)  Elf | Talk 23:13, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing photos 

message: We've got this listed as the main breed name on this page; however, I see that it's not apparently recognized by any of the main kennel clubs we're using and it does have an alternative English name, the Austrian Short-Haired Pinscher. I haven't done a google search, but since this is an english-language encycl, and the nonEnglish version is so non-English, I'm inclined to use the English name as our main entry. Thoughts?  (Sorry, that was me Elf | Talk asking).
:Humm, this is an interesting one.  It's recognised by the FCI (Group 2 Section 1).  In their breed list they list it as a "Österreichischer Kurzhaariger Pinscher" (Austrian short-haired Pinscher). But in the  standard it says "In the year 2000 the breed was renamed Österreichischer Pinscher (Austrian Pinscher)".  I hadn't seen this when I did my list - and it makes quite a difference (see below)
:I don't think we can go only on the fact that it has an English name because of breeds like the Kooikerhondje - which has an English name, but English speakers usually use its home language name.
:So.. where only the FCI (or none of the kennel clubs) recognise, I think we have to try to decide which version of the name is most often used by English speakers - the English language one or the home language one.
:Google results:
::319 English pages for "Österreichischer Kurzhaariger Pinscher" or "Osterreichischer Kurzhaariger Pinscher"
::56 English pages for "Austrian short-haired Pinscher"
::7 English pages for "Österreichischer Pinscher" or "Osterreichischer Pinscher"
::915 English pages for "Austrian Pinscher"
:I had only compared the first two results before - but with the new name included it looks as though "Austrian Pinscher" is the most common form.  Sorry to be so long-winded in saying so - I've written this as I've been been searching for answers :) -- sannse (talk) 09:49, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Long-winded is good here because it clearly shows the rationale--I'd vote for Austrian Pinscher, then, too.  Elf | Talk 17:03, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Osterreichischer Kurzhaariger Pinscher/Austrian Pinscher 

message: Here's another set: The Croatian Mountain Dog, aka Croatian Tornjak, aka Croatian Shepherd. Apparently there are multiple Tornjaks, including the Bosnian Tornjak maybe AKA Bosnian Sheepdog.  I've done a little poking around on the web but most of the pages I'm finding are somewhat amateur--even though some are breeders. So I'm not positive that these aren't duplicates of breeds we already have, but meanwhile I'm adding them to the breed list (since there's at least one page for them out there...).  Another alias: "Bosnian-Herzegovinian sheepdog - tornjak" Elf | Talk 19:46, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got nothing on this one, I can't see anywhere on the list that it might be duplicated though.  I did find another useful site: tornjak.net - maybe we can get a photo out of them ;) -- sannse (talk) 10:20, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I saw that one, too.  I wouldn't say that there are a lot of Tornjak pages out there. :-)   BTW--when y'all talk about doing google searches & coming up with numbers like that, what tool or method are you using? e.g., just putting "tornjak" into the search box gives me all languages, not just english-- Elf | Talk 17:07, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There are "Advanced Search" and "Language Tools" links next to the text box on Google's main page - either gives the option of returning pages in a specific language.  Sometimes there is an "English only" link at the top of the results too - but that's not always there, just if you get a lot of non-English results I think.  I use the Google tool-bar a lot as well, that makes site-specific searches easier (otherwise, type site:www.whatever.com at the beginning of the search).  The only other thing I can think of to mention, is that I use quotes around names of two or more words to try and make the search more specific (which I'm sure you already knew!).  Hope that's helpful -- sannse (talk) 17:36, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Poifect! Thanks. Elf | Talk 18:25, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tornjaks 

message: At least 2 all-breed clubs recognize the wirehaired and smoothhaired varieties as separate breeds, although others don't. My thought was that they should therefore have separate entries in the breed list here even if they end up at the same article--with the article treating them like we do Dachshunds.  On the other hand, I see that this list doesn't include Miniature Dachshund, Wirehaired Dachshund, and so on as separate breeds, so, hmmm, I don't know, but I thought I ought to point it out.  Elf | Talk 16:26, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think having two links implies that there are two articles.  Perhaps it would be clearer if we also listed "Hungarian Shorthaired Vizsla - see Hungarian Viszla".  But then perhaps that would look strange as they are all so close on the list.  I'm not sure... my edit was an alternative, but I'm not sure that it's the right solution.  Two articles doesn't seem to be the right solution either, because so many of the breed clubs regard them as the same species (and I'm not sure there is much to say differently about them anyway).  Another tricky one -- sannse (talk) 11:28, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Viszlas