Talk:Kaliningrad Oblast

message: As the talk page was longer than 30 kilobytes (thus longer than preferable) and recently there has been no active discussions, I archived the old talk page. Kaiser 747 09:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the elections in Memelland from 1925 to 1938, over 75% voted for German parties, including Lithuanians who obviously disliked the Lithuanian rule. --Matthead 02:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite right. I will reply at your talk page as this issue does not concern Kaliningrad Oblast. Kaiser 747 07:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: See Talk:Kaliningrad
===Královec===
This page could be merged with or redirected to Královec after the very successful and very legal referendum on Kaliningrad joining the Czech Republic.https://visitkralovec.cz/#newshttps://twitter.com/KralovecCzechia  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.132.188.34 (talk) 06:38, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger

message: This page could be merged with or redirected to Královec after the very successful and very legal referendum on Kaliningrad joining the Czech Republic.https://visitkralovec.cz/#newshttps://twitter.com/KralovecCzechia  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.132.188.34 (talk) 06:38, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Královec

message: The article is not clear on the size of the landmass of the oblast. This ought to be stated either near the very top of the article, or else at the very least under the 'Geography' heading. - Mauco 12:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added.  Thanks for spotting this.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 14:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size (landmass)

message: In my view, the passage "During the time of the Soviet Union, usage of the Russian language was heavily promoted. There were no schools that taught in German, Lithuanian, or other languages, and few cultural activities for minorities." is illogical, because it is clear from the article that native Germans and Lithuanians left in 1945. So, there was no reason to promote the Russian language - everybdy already spoke Russian. There were no minorities that could possibly be taught in German or Lithuanian.
Interestingly, according to "Demographics" "Almost none of the pre-World War 2 Lithuanian population (Lietuvininks) or German population remains in the Kaliningrad Oblast.". In my view, someone here wants to "have his cake and eat it.". He should say either these people remained, or they did not. I think they did not, judging from the rest of the article. I am leaving the rest of that paragraph more or less at it was, although as far as growing interest for Lithuanian culture and language is concerned, it is completely unsourced. User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 21:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minority schools

message: This article is absolutely dominated by discussion of pre-1945 history (perhaps 2/3 of the content), and the bits about the place today (people, economy, politics, disputes, climate, etc, etc) are tiny, and need to be expanded. Should I add tags? Jd2718 19:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say merge the majority of pre-1945 history into East Prussia (if it isn't there already) and remove it from here. This article should focus on the Russian administrative unit, not on earlier history. Olessi 17:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Second that.  I wouldn't remove all of pre-1945 history, though.  I brief summary (one or two paragraphs) and a link to the main article should, however, suffice.  Other than that, support.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed. --Der Eberswalder 01:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge pre-1945 history to [[East Prussia]], and leave note?

message: The map was to small und not good visible on Laptops. I replaced it and had to change the text, first word must be followed by ]] and last word must start with [[ (because the template wants it so). As long as there is no good other map I think this is the best solution. --Der Eberswalder 01:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: This territory was once known as Prussia before taken by the Soviet Union and there are virtually no germans there after they were expelled. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Prussia was not freed as a sattelite country because there were no Germans in their ancestrial land to claim it to be freed. Many German People wish to go back to Prussia and there are several groups wanting hostile takover of the area which includes: neo-nazis, Russian Seperatist, Muslim Extremeist, Ancestral Prussians, and other supporters, the move is backed by the west. The Russian government has considered changing the name of the city Kaliningrad back to Kronigsberg.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theerasofwar (talk • contribs) 10:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Prussia

message: It looks like the legal status of the territory is not very firm. A paragraph should state what the situation is.
Two good sources , --Stor stark7 Speak 23:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As long as Lithuania was part of the Soviet Union, the road to Kaliningrad Oblast did not go through foreign territory. Now that Lithuania is independent, there is no land connection which does not go through 'someone else's' territory. It has become a Russian exclave. The only way to travel between Kaliningrad and Russia without going through a foreign territory is by air or sea. It is highly unlikely that this is ever going to change. Neither Poland nor Lithuania would want a territory with 1 million Russian speaking and cyrillic writing people - and the Russians there would not be inclined to change to Polish or Lithuanian, and how they'd be better off away from Russia is not at all clear. 144.136.192.79 (talk) 04:49, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The point being made is that Kaliningrad has always since WW2 been a Russian Exclave - you always had to go through Lithuania and either Latvia or Belarius to get to Russia proper.  The difference post and pre 1991 is the existence of the Soviet Union.Andrewgprout (talk) 05:24, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Legal Status

message: The current map is not useful for people visiting the page who want to know where this territory is located. It needs a "zoomed" Central European map. Airborne84 (talk) 21:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs a better map 

message: currently the article says "it is one of Russia's best performing regional economies" and "the economic situation has been badly affected by the geographic isolation"; not necessarily contradictory, but it's unclear what conclusion the reader should draw. Is the economy good or bad, and compared to what, other regions, or to what it "should" be?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.97.122 (talk) 15:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the economy good or bad? 

message: Are Poland and Lithuania blockading land-transport to and from the oblast?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 17:30, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: removed. k kisses 16:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Travel to the main part of Russia is only possible by sea or air.

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Currently, the economy of Kaliningrad Oblast is one of the best performing economies in Russia.
:– Rewritten to remove "currently," and to cast in past tense. Unless someone's updating daily, current and currently should not be used in encyclopedia articles because such references could become outdated at any time. For similar reasons, past-tense verbs should be used, as most articles will outlive the present-tense status of breaking news. Sca (talk) 15:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Currently'

message: Is the rest of Russia "Russia proper" or "the main part of Russia"? According to Wiktionary,  a definition of "proper" is "In the strict sense; within the strict definition or core (of a specified place, taxonomic order, idea, etc) (usually postpositive, i.e. follows the noun it modifies)". It gives the following example: "Siberia, though it stands outside the territorial confines of Russia proper, constitutes an essentially component part […]". My vote is for "proper". Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I would use the term "contiguous region," or something like that. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 00:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper vs Main 

message: On a number of websites one can find statements to the effect that Russia offered to return the area to Germany. Are there any sources for this other than newspapers and magazines? After all, the latter love a good story even if it's not true. Norvo (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Norvo (talk) 23:34, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  That Alleged Offer 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I removed the fourth paragraph in the lead, suggesting that the legal status of Kaliningrad is unclear.  This is contradicted by the articles on the treaty it referenced.  Germany gave up claims to East Prussia (according to Wikipedia; I didn't read the treaty).  The deleted paragraph's placement in the lead gave undue weight to a single journal article; any restoration should be farther in. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 23:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal status 

message: The above sentence appears to be written by someone whose English isn't their First Language i.e., no ethnic Germans remain, but several thousand ethnic Germans live there . . . BTW, an "ethnic German" is an "ethnic German" per The Reasonable Person Theory -- but of course that can be destroyed by percentages, causing the use of such "approximators" as, "mostly ethnic German" (surely 51% cannot qualify as "mostly" in that regard -- the likely only way to resolve such matters is to assemble a room full of adherents of the Reasonable Person Theory and have at it.  BTW, since I am ethnically 50% German and 50% Polish, I believe I represent the absolute highest qualities of both ethnicities, and thus would prefer to be for evermore around "ethnicities" of my ilk, although I suspect that many Halb und Halb's can't live up to my high expectations.  The Very First Thing All-as-Qualified Appropriate Gene-o-types need to do is memorize the "Short Guide to the Brain" End Section in Dr. Paul Chauchard's 1962 English Edition of his book, The Brain.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.243.100 (talk) 11:17, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Today virtually no ethnic Germans remain; most of the several thousand who live there are recent immigrants from other parts of the former Soviet Union." 

message: I quote:
Under the terms of the Potsdam Agreement, the city became part of the Soviet Union pending the final determination of territorial questions at a peace settlement. This final determination never took place. 
On September 12, 1990, Germany and Russia signed a treaty which says Germany cannot claim any land that is not within the borders of West Germany or East Germany. This treaty is listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement_with_Respect_to_Germany. AFAIK, this is a final determination. So it is incorrect that wikipedia currently states, I quote, This final determination never took place. 
45.74.75.118 (talk) 01:40, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  This section is factually incorrect 

message: Any more than Israel is an exclave. They have access to ocean. Please correct this factual error. 
208.72.125.2 (talk) 21:45, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Nor does it say it is in the article.  It does have a generic exclave/enclave category which is most likely because of its "semi exclave" status Andrewgprout (talk) 00:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok it did but you had changed it already - maybe it would be better to call it a "semi exclave" which it is.  And yes it is an exclave more than israel is, that comment is just silly - not more than Alaska though.Andrewgprout (talk) 00:25, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

text: It meets the criteria for exclave. It's an exclave. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:38, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaliningrad oblast is not an exclave 

message: I suggest deleting this part from the article:
"The annexation of the territory, while supposedly on a temporary basis, was approved by the "Big Three" allied leaders of World War II in the Potsdam Agreement in 1945."
There is no source in the article that backs up the assertion the annexation was supposed to be temporary.
--208.72.125.2 (talk) 22:11, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The agreement states that it was made pending a full treaty on the matter. That full treaty never happened. It was, therefore, temporary in the minds of the Big 3. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It was temporary annexation pending signing the treaty, at which point it becomes permanent annexation. The treaty was signed in 1990 as stated in the article. So I don't know where you get the annexation was supposed to be temporary. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a long time time to be "temporary" between 1945 and 1990, perhaps there is a better word or different phrasing to explain the un-ratified nature of the annexation for this extended time. Andrewgprout (talk) 22:40, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The following is the quote from the article about the Potsdam conference. I don't see anything temporary in the wording. The wording of ultimate transfer makes it seem like a permanent annexation to me upon signing the treaty at the peace settlement.
    VI. CITY OF KOENIGSBERG AND THE ADJACENT AREA
    The Conference examined a proposal by the Soviet Government that pending the final determination of territorial questions at the peace settlement, the section of the western frontier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which is adjacent to the Baltic Sea should pass from a point on the eastern shore of the Bay of Danzig to the east, north of Braunsberg – Goldep, to the meeting point of the frontiers of Lithuania, the Polish Republic and East Prussia.
    The Conference has agreed in principle to the proposal of the Soviet Government concerning the ultimate transfer to the Soviet Union of the city of Koenigsberg and the area adjacent to it as described above, subject to expert examination of the actual frontier.
    The President of the United States and the British Prime Minister have declared that they will support the proposal of the Conference at the forthcoming peace settlement.[23]
--206.176.146.31 (talk) 02:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

text: So then it's clear; it was envisaged that the final boundary lines could change. The final determination could move the border a little to the west or a little to the east; meantime, pending that final determination, the territory of the USSR would encompass all the territories listed above. So whilst that temporary time was rather long, it was, de jure, a temporary time; de facto events on the ground (i.e. the complete expulsion of the population) rendered any other border change moot, hence the 1990 recognition. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:30, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: My point that the transfer of Kaliningrad oblast from Germany to Russia was not meant to be temporary. True, 1945 to 1990 may seem like a long time to a person, but it's not a long time for a nation state. Besides, with Germany divided and occupied between 1945 and 1990, it was politically impossible for Germany to sign the peace treaty. --204.197.178.96 (talk) 19:03, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  annexation of Kaliningrad was never supposed to be temporary as stated in this article 

message: The annexation of the territory, while supposedly on a temporary basis, was approved by the "Big Three" allied leaders of World War II in the Potsdam Agreement in 1945. Three years after the annexation by the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, the remaining two-thirds of East Prussia was annexed by Poland and is today organised into the Warmian-Masurian province.
If there is no objection, I will delete this part. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 17:06, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I have deleted it - it is a while since I made a similar comment above.  Andrewgprout (talk) 23:55, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  this part is out of place in the pre modern period section 

message: The other 84 federal subjects are contiguous with the Russian mainland. I think this might be worth mentioning in the article.
--208.72.125.2 (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This is mentioned in enclave and exclave#Semi-enclaves and semi-exclaves. --Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 18:39, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's not mentioned there. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? "Kaliningrad Oblast is a federal subject of Russia (an oblast), a semi-exclave situated on the Baltic coast. Sea access from the mainland is possible from Saint Petersburg via the Gulf of Finland without passing through other states' territory." --Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 22:48, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Or by planes. These days most people travel by plane, not by ship. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 16:36, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaliningrad oblast is the only federal subject not contiguous with the Russian mainland 

message: Suppose it is grouped into Leningrad oblast due to its proximity to St. Petersburg, it would be contiguous with Moscow.
--208.72.125.2 (talk) 17:08, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It physically does not touch the rest of Russia. It is surrounded on all sides by countries other than Russia, and the ocean. That makes it a semi-exclave. It wouldn't stop being one just because of a hypothetical redistricting. All that would change is the name we would have to use to describe the semi--exclave, but it would still physically be one. Please remember that this is not a forum. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't surrounded anymore than Israel is surrounded. Both have territorial sea and access to high sea. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 22:23, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Israel is surrounded by both, but that is the entirety of Israeli territory. There isn't some bigger part of Israel to the east of Iraq or something. That is not the case in Kaliningrad, unless you think Moscow Oblast isn't part of Russia. Seriously, take this elsewhere. At this point, this is just trolling. It is plainly visible on any map that Kaliningrad does not come into physical contact with the rest of Russia. That doesn't make it any less part of Russia or validly under Russian sovereignty. It does make it a semi-exclave. Poland exists and isn't part of Russia. Lithuania exists, and isn't part of Russia. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 14:04, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:04, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaliningrad oblast is not necessarily a semi exclave 

message: No explanation here as to exactly why the place was seized by the Russians in the first place. This is the historic heart of Prussia, and Konigsberg was the old Prussian capital, before being moved to Berlin. The point of seizing it was part of the post-war aim of eliminating Prussia’s existence, as the bearers of an aggressive, war-like tradition. The old capital and part of old, or East Prussia was occupied to this end. With Stalin’s typical heavy-handed moving of people around like concrete blocks, the whole population was simply expelled, and replaced with Russians. The article should mention some of this. 213.205.240.177 (talk) 16:05, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Prussia

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Kalininia. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 26#Kalininia until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 21:02, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kalininia" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I reverted the recent addition with this edit: this diff; my rationale was: "Revert -- this is sourced to a memoir; a book from an extremist publisher; and an article that does not support the claim". For more information please see a discussion on my Talk page: Edit at Königsberg. --K.e.coffman (talk) 17:29, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  August 2021 edits 

message: This article ignores 30 years of problems of the transit. Russia’s military corridor in Lithuania that never was Xx236 (talk) 06:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transit through Lithuania 

message: Is this Wikipedia Russian? Xx236 (talk) 08:32, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Many maps of Russia were replaced by the one with Crimea by 78.55.12.169 in 2017 durintg 5 hours. The IP has never been active before or later. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/78.55.12.169&offset=&limit=500&target=78.55.12.169 In my opinion it was a Russian attack. This proves that this Wikipedia is sometimes vulnerable. Xx236 (talk) 08:52, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

text: User:Mellk, please discuss the subject here. How do you recognize something so small as 'disputed'? Please explain. The text is in Russian. This is an English language Wikipedia. BTW, this article is about Kalinigrad Oblast. Why do we need Crimea here? Xx236 (talk) 09:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the consensus is for maps of Russia, Crimea is shown as disputed territory. Mellk (talk) 09:45, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

text: That's OK, I added an English description. Mellk (talk) 09:45, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain me what do you see here. I see Russian Crimea. I need to select the map and I need some time to see that there is sometning under the Former page symbol. Please consider the effect of your action.Xx236 (talk) 09:49, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You have not been interested in this map here during 5 years. I change it to a better one, now you come after 53 minutes with a Russian language one and you corerect your error only afer my protest. 5 years vs. 53 minutes. Will you replace the all other ones (about 100)? Xx236 (talk) 09:52, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the map I added where Crimea is clearly shown as disputed. And yes, the article is on my wishlist so I saw this change and what it was. If I did not find a map with it shown as disputed, I would have just left it how you changed it. Mellk (talk) 10:03, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

text: This article is about Kaliningrad Oblast. Do we need informations about Crimea here?Xx236 (talk) 10:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What information? It is a map of a region of Russia, and where this region is located within Russia. Is that strange? Mellk (talk) 10:04, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about Kaliningrad Oblast . It is not located within Russia, it is an exclave. The article is not about Crimea. Your map includes information about Crimea, unvisible to me, I need to click the map to see that Crimea is not Russian. The map suggests it.Xx236 (talk) 10:07, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As it is Russian territory, it is shown as part of Russia. Just like Alaska with USA and French Guiana with France. Mellk (talk) 10:14, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: So what is your solution? Since all articles on Crimea show it as disputed territory. I suppose you can try to change all of them to get rid of any mentions of the de facto situation. Mellk (talk) 10:15, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

text: I am not sure which map you are referring to as "Kremlin POV", is it the current one which clearly shows Crimea as disputed? I am also not sure why you are saying that LDNR, Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia etc should also be striped to follow this, they are not (yet) annexed by Russia and it is a map of Russia. Otherwise the other maps on Russia articles will need to be changed to show Crimea as not disputed, but if that is the goal, then good luck. Mellk (talk) 14:19, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

text: Britannica also showing all the Kuril Islands as part of Russia, so? Mellk (talk) 14:26, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disgusting map with 'Russian' Crimea 

message: Please correct the line that Kaliningrad Oblast became part of the Czech Republic in 2022. There was a satirical posting (https://www.praguemorning.cz/czechs-troll-russia-with-mock-annexation-of-kaliningrad/) and it was added as a fact to this article.  This can be verified in numerous sources. 76.119.248.216 (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Czech Republic