Talk:Phoolan Devi

message: This article has no info what happened to her after she surrendered or about her later election to parliament in India. Someone knowledgeable on the subject should add such info. --Cab88 01:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion request 

message: *In 1998, Phoolan Devi was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by some members of the British Parliament. 
Being nominated for the Peace Prize is an honor, but it is not official or even prestigious. Any national legislator or about a third of the university professors in the world can make a nomination, and there have been as many as 140 some years. Nominators are requested to keep their nominations secret, so it's only those wishing publicity who make announcements, and more often it is impossible to verify. Further, in this case we only have the subject's own word in the matter. I see no reason to keep it. No offense to the subject, this is a general Nobel Peace Prize "nominees" issue. -Will Beback · † · 07:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nobel Peace Prize nomination 

message: First of all, this article is informative and well written grammatically. My only problem is that much of it reads like a plot synopsis from a movie. I`m not going to try and fix it, without having any knowledge on the subject beyond what is presented in the article, but if the original author (or any else who is knowledeable) is around maybe they could take a look at that. Thanks. Random89 19:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wording

message: Comment: The first version is taken from a Bollywood film and is far more exciting and stereotyped. So people like it more.
The second version is called 'mythical' though Phoolan says that is what happened, possibly because it is so dull and not at all exotic.
Comment: According to Phoolan Devi herself, the land dispute was among her family members and this was the motivation behind her first public protest. The courts decided against her father, and she made the unheard of gesture of protesting to authorities about the decision when he would not. She said that leaving this part of her life out of the film Bandit Queen was enough to make it "not about my life". She said they did not even mention her uncle, whom she believed to be behind most of the horrors of her young life, including the ill-fated first marriage, after this confrontation. As usual, Wiki has only a few of the facts, and glosses over some pretty important ones. There are enough facts on record about this person that they could easily have made a movie about them and it would have been just as stunning. Devi's comments about her multiple rapes are quite interesting. For starters, read the Mary Anne Weaver articles, noted at the end of the entry.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mau4 (talk • contribs) 16:06, 21 Aug 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from article 

message: This article contains stupefyingly little referencing of any sort. Most of the so called information disseminated in it, appears not to have any supporting evidence. Long and drawn out episodes characterise her relationship with her husbands' "Second wife", without any references cited.
This article is ungrammatical, poorly spelt, and contains numerous errors of ommission and commission. It reads like a penny potboiler, and does not qualify at all as unbiased, containing as it does unquantifiable gems such as "her family was very poor, but not poorest in village" (sic).
Please edit this article, or proclaim it a candidate for speedy deletion. It does not contribute to a meaningful or even indisputably correct understanding of the subject at hand.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspuar (talk • contribs) 19:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit or Delete! 

message: Anyone able to verify that photo Devi_surrender.jpg in any convincing manner? --Itu (talk) 11:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: This is an incredibly biased article. Why is forty-eight italicized? Why is the marital rape by the husband never mentioned? Why is the fact that she killed men because they would not tell her where the rapists are not mentioned? Why are biased words such as "simply" included? I don't feel I can trust any information in this article, as the wording is so clearly biased against this person. 103.14.125.195 (talk) 18:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased

message: A "moll" is the female companion of a male professional criminal. This is therefore not a proper description of Phoolan Devi.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.149.20 (talk) 13:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Moll?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Phoolan Devi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.goodbyemag.com/jul01/devi.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160414182145/http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html to http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160414182145/http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html to http://www.sawnet.org/books/writing/roy_bq1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070602015649/http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/phoolan_devi/index.html to http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/phoolan_devi/index.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:34, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm not sure, but it seems that the word caste is being used where the word jāti should be? Caste equals Varna (Shudra, Vaishya, Kshatriya, Brahmin, and Dalit), jāti equals endogamous groups of similar profession, such as 'boatman' or 'perfume seller'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.73.154 (talk) 02:14, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caste and jāti   

message: In 2017, Iranian director Hossein Martin Fazeli announced the production of PHOOLAN, a documentary film about Phoolan’s life. It hasn't finished production yet but is set to be released sometime in 2018. Could someone add this information under the section Movie and autobiography? Sources: ;  (Note: I have disclosed a conflict of interest with Roads & Kingdoms. I am not paid for my contributions.) WillA98 (talk) 18:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources you have provided are to a travel magazine with unknown ties to the production company and a Kickstarter page. The time to mention this documentary will be when independent, secondary sources begin reporting on it. If the production is notable, others will have reported on it. Regards,  spintendo  20:27, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request - "PHOOLAN" documentary (2018) 

message: This article is ridiculously biased and is founded upon a lack of cited sources. Please rewrite or delete this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.196.83.254 (talk) 14:40, 25 July 2017‎ (UTC)
:That seems rather non-specific. It's unlikely to be deleted. To help with rewriting, you'll need to provide specific suggested changes, not just sweeping vague criticism. —BarrelProof (talk) 13:28, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias and lack of sources 

message: I think people should read and compare the two versions and judge for themselves. The other version seems to have an agenda to simply damn India, its society, its family culture, and above all, its religion. It is a page of apologetics for a bandit who murdered many people and looted many others. Poverty is pervasive in India and we all live in the same "dirty" country; how many of us become bandits? It surely cannot be right to blame all and sundry for crimes committed by one very damaged personality.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.20.116 (talk) 15:52, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent incidents 

message: Can someone please rewrite this entire article ? Wikipedia primary purpose is to disseminate information,not tell stories.The article can be trimmed by getting rid of minor or unnecessary details. Prav001 (talk) 05:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is certainly not very well sourced and the best way forward may indeed be simply to start again with a new version and to incorporate anything useful from the current version. I'm intending to do that with a view to taking the article to GA and maybe FA, if anyone wants to collaborate, feel free to drop me a line. Mujinga (talk) 19:11, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: done Mujinga (talk) 17:13, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to rewrite this article

message: Phoolan is mentioned a few times in the Satanic Verses, indeed the fact that I’m reading it is the only reason I looked her up on WP. Could we have a section devoted to media depictions of her? Then we could mention both the film about her and the Satanic Verses in that section. Overlordnat1 (talk) 17:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satanic Verses 

message: Hello Phoolan Devi: 
WikiProject Women in Green is holding a  month-long Good Article Editathon event in June 2023!
Running from June 1 to 30, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) editathon event – Wildcard Edition! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to any and all women and women's works during the event period. Want to improve an article about a Bollywood actress? Go for it. A pioneering female climate scientist? Absolutely. An award-winning book or film by a woman? Yes! GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to receive a special WiG barnstar for their efforts. 
We hope to see you there!
Mujinga (talk) 16:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long Good Article Editathon event in June 2023! 

message: In the Legacy section, the article states that Shirish Korde's opera Phoolan Devi: The Bandit Queen had its premiere at the University of Boston. This is incorrect. While some careless Boston reviewers (like the source currently cited in the article) mistakenly claimed that the performance in Boston on April 23 was the premiere, the work (which should be credited to both Korde and Lynn Kremer, who co-wrote the libretto and designed and directed the 2010 production) actually had its first performance at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, on April 15, 2010. Both Korde and Kremer are on the faculty of the College of the Holy Cross, and apart from the lead singers the cast in both Worcester and Boston consisted largely of Holy Cross students. There were several performances in Worcester before the production moved to Boston the following weekend. This was correctly reported in the Boston Globe: see Matthew Guerrieri, "'Bandit Queen' Chronicles a Complicated Heroine," Boston Globe, 26 April 2010, page G5 (archived from Boston.com on 25 Oct 2012); as well as at Stanford University's Opening Nights database of opera and oratorio premieres. Photos from the Holy Cross performances are online at the web site of the HC Theater Dept. (Full disclosure: I am unaffiliated with the college myself, but my wife teaches there, although not in the theater or music departments. I attended one of those first performances, and it was fantastic.) – Choliamb (talk) 14:22, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Choliamb Thanks for the full explanation with refs! I hope this is now fixed, please have a look and feel free to adjust. Mujinga (talk) 17:17, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, Mujinga. Looks good to me. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 18:16, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Phoolan Devi: The Bandit Queen'' by Shirish Korde and Lynn Kremer

message: @Nikkimaria the FAC got closed, slightly prematurely perhaps since we were still discussing FN33, but hopefully it doesn't need read re-opening because I'd argue The Economic Times (used twice) is not covered by WP:TOI. Yes they are both owned by The Times Group, but that's like New Scientist being owned by the Daily Mail and General Trust, which also publishes the Daily Mail. Mujinga (talk) 10:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have anything to suggest it is more reliable? I checked RSN and found a discussion of it being a Wikipedia mirror and not much else specific. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I also checked RSN and didn't find anything conclusive. It is taken as India's leading financial newspaper by other newspapers such as Washington Post, Guardian, NYT, Times. Is that enough or would you like to discuss at RSN? Mujinga (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that there hasn't been a conclusive discussion previously, I think it would be useful to get it settled one way or the other. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Nikkimaria First off thanks again for doing the image and source reviews. The discussion at RSN was inconclusive; I hope I've solved the issue by removing/replacing the ET references. I have to say I would rather have debated the merits of each individual citation and its specific context, but I'd also be happy to draw a line under this now. Mujinga (talk) 18:16, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Economic Times 

message: Hi @Tayi Arajakate, I reverted your recent edits and would if it's OK with you like to discuss them here. The article has been made a featured article after helpful comments at GA and PR, so I would say a consensus on for example caste and OBC has at least roughly been established already. I don't doubt that you know more than me about India in pretty much every way since I know very little, but I have read all the sources I've been able to get my hands on regarding Phoolan Devi.
* edit summary - "restore and expand with better sourcing, post-2010 IT is not that good either"
*: at first glance I thought TI meant ToI and I would be resistant to re-adding ToI links, since that's already been discussed in the FA source review. it seems you mean India Today, can I ask what you are basing that on? it's listed in RSPS
* edit summary - "this does not make sense in this context, OBC is a legal and documentational category, and there is a distinction between lower caste (as stated in the sources) and OBC"
*: there seems to be a lot of debate and controversy on wikipedia about how to use the term OBC. the sources give a range of options to choose from, so do you think it's better to summarise using "lower caste"? I'm trying to work out your rationale here
* edit summary - "add, acc source"
*: so you changed "generally popular among Other Backward Classes." to "generally popular among Dalits and Other Backward Classes" based on then Outlook source. but then later removed Dalits again
* edit summary - "this is way to simplistic a description to the point of being inaccurate, and not necessary in this article anyways
*: I've asked around quite a lot for help on this issue, for example at [Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Archive_127#Indian_naming_conventions|women in red] and twice on [76] at the noticeboard for india-related topics. I've also asked people who seem to have decent knowledge in this area such as DaxServer, MPGuy2824 and Trangabellam. All with varying degrees of success. We seem to have reached some sort of consensus that a footnote is helpful. Personally I think when this article is on then frontpage a lot of people will be curious about caste structure so something needs to be said. I'm not at all tied to the current footnote but I don't think deleting it is best, I'd be fine with replacing it with an improved version though. Mujinga (talk) 14:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @AryKun thanks again for the spot, I'll make the changes when i stop getting database errors. By the way, "My favorite kind of discussions—the never-ending ones!" is still making me chuckle Mujinga (talk) 12:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: As far as I can see we have five discussion points open. I will take them one by one and hopefully we can find solutions. 
* 1 India Today
* 2 lower castes / OBC
* 3 Dalits / OBC
* 4 Note on caste - suggestion
* 5 Rupees
1 Use of India Today @Tayi Arajakate questions the use of IT, AryKun says it's ok, I don't see a problem with it. 
*Suggestion: either keep IT or debate at RSN Mujinga (talk) 12:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @AryKun thanks again for the spot, I'll make the changes when i stop getting database errors. By the way, "My favorite kind of discussions—the never-ending ones!" is still making me chuckle Mujinga (talk) 12:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions

message: OK so moving forward withb the suggestions:
* 1 India Today - keep as is
* 2 lower castes / OBC - changed to lower castes 
* 3 Dalits / OBC - keep as is
* 4 Note on caste - keep as is 
* 5 Rupees - already sorted Mujinga (talk) 10:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: A week later

message: The lead in this article is a mess. The murder she was accused of are being labelled 'executions,' a cult status is being labelled 'heroine.' Blatant WP:NPOV and WP:PUFF violations. LΞVIXIUS💬 16:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, murders by organised outfits like terrorist organizations, cartels, and bandit groups can be referred to as executions, although that wording could perhaps be changed. The article doesn't state that she was a heroine, it says that she was seen as a heroine, which is demonstrably true and probably why she was able to have a successful political career. We also cannot call her a murderer or say she was responsible for the murders per BLP:CRIME, since she was never convicted. The only NPOV issue here is maybe the wording for the murders, although I think that what is currently there is also acceptable. AryKun (talk) 17:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  in case you didn't see this. AryKun (talk) 10:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't say I'm particularly tied to the word "executed", but it is summarising "twenty-two Thakur men were lined up at the Yamuna River and shot from behind" in the body, which to me does sound like how an execution would be described. Mujinga (talk) 19:02, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numerous NPOV violations in this article 

message: For TFA, 1461 characters, no fair-use foto:
Phoolan Devi (1963–2001), popularly known as the Bandit Queen, was an Indian dacoit (bandit) who later became a politician. She was a woman of the Mallah subcaste who grew up in poverty in the state of Uttar Pradesh, where her parents lost a land dispute. After being married off at the age of eleven and being sexually abused by various people, she joined a gang of dacoits which robbed higher-caste villages and held up trains and vehicles. When she became its leader, she punished her rapists and evaded capture by the authorities, making her a heroine for the Other Backward Classes. She was charged in absentia for the 1981 Behmai massacre, in which twenty Thakur men were executed, allegedly on her command. After this event, the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh resigned, and calls to apprehend her were amplified. She surrendered two years later and spent eleven years in Gwalior prison awaiting trial, then was released in 1994 after her charges were set aside. She was subsequently elected as a member of parliament for the Samajwadi Party in 1996. She lost her seat in 1998 and regained it the following year; she was the incumbent in 2001, when she was assassinated outside her home in New Delhi. Her worldwide fame had grown after the release of the controversial 1994 film Bandit Queen, which she did not approve of. There are varying accounts of her life because she told differing versions to suit her changing circumstances. (Full article...) Mujinga (talk) 23:57, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed blurb