Talk:Lagniappe

message: This is a very confusing article. 
It begins by saying Lagniappe is a "French/Spanish loanword" (So it's a French word or it's a Spanish word borrowed by, presumably, English speakers.) 
Then it says it's a "Louisiana French word, derived from American Spanish" (So does that mean that, despite the previous sentence saying it's a French word, it's not really French but used by those who speak French in Louisiana? Or does it mean that it's not really Spanish but derived from the Spanish spoken in America?) 
Then it says it has been "traced back to the Quechua word yapa or nyap". (So does that mean that its origin is after all neither French nor Spanish but Quechan?)
Then there's a quote from Mark Twain, who is quoted as saying that he'd heard it was of Spanish origin.
It seems unlikely that its origin is French. It doesn't look French and it doesn't appear in the Hachette Oxford Grand Dictionnaire. The article List_of_English_words_of_Quechuan_origin says that the word is Quechan and was adopted by U.S. English speakers via French Creole. (Note that saying it was used by French Creole speakers doesn't make it French any more than words used by pidgin speakers qualify as English words.)
This text gives no clear guidance on what the etymology of the word is. But the information available in various articles suggests that it may be a Quechan word, adopted by Creole and thence into English. It may also be the case that Mark Twain, famous and interesting as he may be, is wrong to surmise that it may be Spanish.
This article needs someone who knows the true story, and can provide the sources to back it up, to do a comprehensive rewrite. Adrian Robson 17:56, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means archive my comments from last September - they've now all been satisfactorily dealt with through the recent thoughtful editing which makes me feel much happier about the article. Adrian Robson 23:45, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Someone changes Lousiana creole to Louisiana - I don't know why, I have just maintained the thing of which I can speak with confidence - that it is part of TCE.  If people who know better want to change Lousiana creole to just Louisiana, I can't say much one way or the other.  Guettarda 02:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Louisana Creole is the same as Louisiana French or Cajun French. This article is presumably about the English word since it is part of an English encyclopedia. Saying that lagniappe is used in Louisiana tells where the English word is used. Saying it is used in Louisiana Creole tells that another language uses the same word. No one doubts that "lagniappe" is used in Trinidad. We just need sources to show that it has a distinct history from that of the Standard English word. Al Ong 05:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by "standard English word"?  At least in Trinidad it isn't considered Standard English - like much of Trinidadian usage, it entered Trinidadian English usage from Trinidadian Creole French usage (which was the dominant language until early in the 20th century).  While I have no idea what the original source of the word is in Trinidad, the proximal source is clearly French patois.  Guettarda 13:47, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text:  What I mean by "Standard English" is partially explained in the quote from English Today. For more info look up the article. The main idea is that most articles in Wikipedia don't have to explain that a word being discussed is from another language. The English version of Wikipedia explains English words. Either lagniappe is an English word that should be explained in a main article or it is a word from another language that should be explained in an article about that language. It is true that most articles have a bias toward American English as I am sure British readers have observed. However if you want to consider a word that you say isn't Standard English, has a separate history from the American English word, and has a unique meaning in Trinidad, I really have no objection as long as you provide sources for your statements and do so in a separate section so that readers can understand the differences. Al Ong 17:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never said anything of the sort.  I strongly suspect that the origin is common in Trinidad and Louisiana - that the word went from Quechua to Spanish to Caribbean Creole French.  The article has been recently altered to say "The Spanish Empire for a time also included Louisiana so there was a Spanish presence in New Orleans. In New Orleans the word seems to have entered the English and Cajun French languages.[1]" - which strikes me as conjecture (and which is not supported by the citation, which is, in any case, only answers.com.  To posit separate transitions from Spanish to creole French in Louisiana and Trinidad is less parsimonious than to posit a single transition from Spanish to creole French, and subsequent spread throughout the Francophone Caribbean (which at the time included both Lousiana and Trinidad) or a single source for both in the creole of pre-revolutionary St. Domingue (now Haiti), since many planters (and their slaves) who fled the Haitian revolution ended in Trinidad or Lousiana.  Granted, this is just conjecture, but so is the material currently in the article.  It'd easy enough for a scholar to verify (for example, does the word show up in creole French in Haiti, Martinique, Guadeloupe and St. Lucia; at what point is it first recorded, etc.), but beyond the scope of this article.  I am not saying Trinidadian usage is distinct - I believe that it is not.  The article suggests that it is, but I believe that to be conjecture.  Guettarda 17:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text:  I think you are finally stopping to think about what I've been saying, and I agree the article needs better citations. I agree with everything in your last comment. It is interesting that the quotation of Mark Twain correctly makes the connection to Spanish in New Orleans while the word is considered of French origin in Trinidad. The link to Spanish could just as easily have occurred in Haiti or Trinidad, but I can't find any reference (scholarly or not) to suggest that it did. Al Ong 19:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry if my comments sounded like I was arguing another side - I wasn't.  While a Spanish connection is necessary to get from Peru to the Caribbean, my gut feeling is that the transition to creole French comes before Louisiana.  The spelling requires that it must have passed through French before getting to English (though I doubt anyone is suggesting otherwise).  If it were present in Louisiana alone, or in Trinidad alone, either place has adequate Spanish history to make make the transition (both were French-speaking colonies under Spanish rule at the end of the 18th century).  Being present in both places, its's more parsimonious to suggest a common origin.  But, of course, my main point is that the article should not speculate, and at present it does.  Guettarda 20:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: By what I can tell, this article does not at any point discuss the concept itself, but solely the word.  According to WP:DICTIONARY, should this be converted over to wiktionary?  Pyrosim 06:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dictionary page? 

message: This word was recently used in a Slashdot article, and this particular word was highlighted by several readers. Don't be surprised if there are a few vandalisms (as well as positive edits) over the next day or so. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 13:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prepare for Slashdotters 

message: Antiquarian booksellers ≠ tribe. That citation would be a help.
Eagleapex (talk) 01:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antiquarian booksellers 

message: Another confusing aspect in this article is the mention of Southeast Asia followed by a mention of the Punjab region of India and Pakistan. Choonga, while an interesting word to know, has nothing to do with a lagniappe. Furthermore, the Punjab is not in Southeast Asia but South Asia. It seems that these confusing sentences be either removed or rewritten.
Tropbavard (talk) 13:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Southeast Asia

message: Along with the other confusions noted here...the introduction says this:
So, in quick succession, we call it "expected" once, as well as "traditional", and "not expected / unexpected" twice.  Later, the article refers to buyers asking for lagniappe, so there goes "not demanded", too. 
This may have a shade of truth if you are familiar with the practice, but that's not sufficient.  It's inadequate and senseless as an explanation.  I decided to cut the second sentence, and if anyone can add something comprehensible about this, with sources, please do.  Ale And Quail (talk) 01:33, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expected, unexpected -- someone knowledgeable is needed to clarify 

message: Paul Prudhomme, the famous New Orleans creole chef, uses the term in his cookbook to refer to extra tips / stories he appends to certain recipes.  He translates it as "something extra" just as with the physical bonus item for a consumer, but he is using it to refer to something that isn't physical suggesting the possible usage of the word is somewhat broader than the article suggests.  Thoughts?  12 Sept 2014.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.80.193 (talk) 19:25, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Usage 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is a definition of a word, should be on wiktionary. PixelBytes (talk) 16:54, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. Eric talk 18:26, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn’t this be moved to Wiktionary?