Talk:Tomorrow's Pioneers

message: What is "pull the programme or even change the curriculum" supposed to mean?  --  Deipnosophista 20:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That they refused to pull the program, and they also refused to change the content of the show to a less...controversial style. 216.61.238.76 22:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that's correct. Any educational show, even Hamas-run, has a curriculum of what they cover and what they don't, educationally.  --  Zanimum 15:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: clarification wanted

message: An editor has added a paragraph. I'm not happy with it it for several reasons.
*The translations are not included in any reliable translations I've seen. In fact I can only find them repeated in self proclaimed Zionist publications with no attributions and in every case they appear to use the same source.
*Grant Swank seems to have largely copy/pasted his article from the original source that has the interesting title "A disgusting message from the friends of Jimmy Carter, George Soros, Juan Cole, Rashid Khalidi and Norman Finkelstein" which also contains quotes from Mein Kampf and comparisons of Muslims to Nazi's which alone is reason to revert as POV.
I don't like to revert without comment so this was it. Please check sources before editing. Wayne 15:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Response Section

message: I notice there has been a revert war going on over the final show.  There are now multiple news sources talking about how the Mouse was killed in the final broadcast.  So why does somebody keep deleting this information, even when a poster gives sources for the information?
http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/29200795734.htm
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053066405&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://www.kansascity.com/451/story/170693.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19509117/
75.120.83.241 21:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I deleted it the first time it was added, because at that time there was no source given, and it sounded bizarre.  Subsequently that was remedied.  I guess you can never underestimate the crudity of Hamas propganda efforts...  However that may be, there was no real "revert war" that I can see. AnonMoos 02:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, the "Jew" was also a black person.  I wonder if Hamas has similar hatreds towards black as it does towards Jews. - MSTCrow 23:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: It has ended, right?  Why does the infobox and other text indicate it is still in production? Dr Sarcastor 23:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: better to wait a little bit (at least one week) before we conclude it is indeed the final show. Jaakobou 23:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: OK, apparently the show is still going, albeit with a new animal.  So (unfortunately), the show does go on.  Evan1975 04:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert War over Final Show

message: Wanted: 
a reference for this edit. Jaakobou 18:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: issue fixed. Jaakobou 23:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Prison 

message: The word Farfur is actually not found in the Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, or I would have already added the Arabic spelling to the article. AnonMoos 13:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? That's weird. It's spelled Farfur and Farfour, depending on the source, but strange that they'd use a word that isn't readily used.  --  Zanimum 16:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabic spelling

message: I have read of two different explanations for the meaning of the name Farfour.
#The one presented in the article currently is that farfour is derived from the "diminutive of fi'r which means 'mouse' in Arabic."
#The other explanation is that Farfour means 'butterfly' in Arabic.
If there are any native Arabic-speakers editing, I would be interested to know which version is correct.
-Thibbs (talk) 01:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Farfour 

message: :This is not a neutral statement which simply reports the facts.  I believe it is clear that this program indoctrinates Palestinian children with hatred, myself, but I believe this point can be achieved by simply reporting the facts and refraining from violating WP:NPOV.  -Thibbs (talk) 17:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "storylines designed to indoctrinate Palestinian children with hatred" 

message: why are they being cited as reliable sources?P4k (talk) 03:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can see the reliability of the MEMRI translations as a whole is not at issue.  The only difference that has been suggested here in talk comes from one episode, #101, where the MEMRI and CNN translations differ substantially.  Otherwise the two different versions (CNN and MEMRI) seem very comparable.  See above. -Thibbs (talk) 04:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  So if MEMRI's translations have been challenged... 

message: Feel free to explain what the problem with my edits was.P4k (talk) 07:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First, you were stripping sources. Second, you appear to be removing a perfectly valid description. According to policy, this looked to me more like an attempt to "slow vandalize", e.g. slip bad edits past people watching by making tiny bits at a time. Care to explain why you were removing sources? M1rth (talk) 07:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because they weren't reliable, like I said in my edit summaries.  One is a blog, the other is world net daily.P4k (talk) 07:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The other thing: I don't think the rabbit looks like bugs bunny, so provide a source for it if you want to say it.P4k (talk) 07:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Whatever.  The sources aren't reliable, they don't deserve to stay just because no one's objected to them up to now.P4k (talk) 07:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

text: blogs aren't reliable, world net daily isn't reliable.P4k (talk) 08:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Also can you please stop commenting on my motives?P4k (talk) 08:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: M1rth, I know that you're familiar with at least some of WP policies, such as WP:BITE and WP:BLOCK, since you've cited them extensively in the past. This shows a remarkable learning curve for such a new user and I congratulate you. I suggest you move on to examine WP:V, one of our core content policies, which clearly disallows a random .blogspot.com cite, and is near-universally understood to disallow Front Page Magazine for most purposes. <eleland/talkedits> 18:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers&curid=11154936&diff=196711942&oldid=196691683 

message: Since Jaakobou feels the need to revert me here, I'd like to have a discussion on the proper WikiProject importance ratings for this article. I can't for the life of me imagine that anybody seriously believes this article is about as important as Geography of Israel, Supreme Court of Israel, Palestinian Arabic, United Nations Security Council Resolution 338 etc. Come on, people. <eleland/talkedits> 20:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a current event of high to mid importance level to at least one of the projects. I can agree to taking one of them down to 'low' and the other to 'medium'. Cheers, JaakobouChalk Talk 20:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? "High" importance?? ...are we next going to make Donald Duck "high importance" for USA? Is the a joke? IF it is a current event, well, use the "current event" template. Regards, Huldra (talk) 13:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

text: .Ok, I see that Gilabrand has changed the importance level to "High" for wikiproject Israel; and if the Israelis on the project say that, then I certainly accept it. My comment above about the "High" level was basically for wikiproject Palestine, (it was the one I saw), which I maintain was/is/should be "low" (unless the Palestinians on WP say anything else.) Regards, Huldra (talk) 13:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance ratings 

message: It is important to establish the familial relationships of characters in a show in order to fully understand the show's dynamics.  All articles which I have seen on wikipedia which deal with fictional families clearly illustrate the familial relationships and this serves to explain why the characters interact the way they do.  Although due to  the inflammatory nature of the show, most readers of this article will probably be primarily interested in the political elements of the show, yet it is necessary that explanations of the in-universe convolutions not be dismissed as simply "po-faced" or "goofy" and summarily deleted.  Jaakobou has frequently brought up the concern that readers may confuse politically controversial in-universe elements such as the "martyrdom of Farfour" for reality and while I think this takes a particularly dim view of the general readership I suppose it is safest to hold the more radical in-universe statements to a heightened standard of reporting.  As such, Jaakobou and I have extensively discussed the use of quotation marks (see above) to indicate an external ironic construction thereby distancing the show's reality from that of actual reality.  I do not believe that such a distancing is required in non-political contexts, however.  For the reasons just given I will re-insert the section regarding the nature of the in-universe familial relationship between Uncle Hazim, Nahoul, and Assoud. -Thibbs (talk) 01:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: dnftt.P4k (talk) 02:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I may be mistaken but I think he's serious about it.  He seemed genuinely concerned.-Thibbs (talk) 05:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In-Universe Tone 

message: Translations of the Tomorrow's Pioneers episode broadcast on April 20, 2007 have incorrectly misspelled the name of Condoleezza Rice as "Condoleeza." That this misspelling can be attributed to the translators and not to a wikieditor is indicated by use of the phrase "[sic]" immediately following the word "Condoleeza" in the quotation in the article. Since it is wikipolicy that accuracy of sources maintain a high priority for good editors (see WP:SOURCE), it is preferrable to use the misspelled but accurate version over a properly spelled but inaccurate/sourceless one. I assume the edits which have been made in the past were good-faith and I applaud the efforts of these detail-oriented editors however for the reasons just given we must allow this misspelling to remain as-is. Cheers, Thibbs (talk) 22:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Condoleezza Vs. Condoleeza 

message: I notice a tag has been added to the episodes section that suggests they are too long and too detailed. This is probably accurate, and this portion of the article should be reexamined. I think it is important, however, for us to retain as much of the context that this section provides us with as possible. Mentions of and links to political and historical figures, for instance, I believe should be retained whenever possible. References to political events like battles, wars, and treaties, and references to geographical locations should also be retained. The show is so divisive that without this context all we are left with are highly biased articles for reference. I have tried hard to include both viewpoints in the article's main body but I think the Episodes subsection is highly important as a third perspective - one from directly within the show. This way we the readers can see what cultural touchstones are invoked and get a much better sense of where the show is coming from. With that said, I think everything that's been trimmed up till now has been apprpriate since it has dealt stricty with the removal of physical-action plot and has left references to the greater world intact. -Thibbs (talk) 16:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: "Farfour mimes carrying an AK-47 in episode 103 of the series." How could it be episode 103 if there are only four seasons with 17 episodes apiece in the info section..in my books 4 x 17 is only 68...  -Raudys (talk) 14:39, 13 April 2009 (ET)
Are you retarded? The 1 means season 1 and the 03 means Episode 3.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.10.107 (talk) 18:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't count to ONE-HUNDRED-AND-THREE can you? Sometimes periods help. Ex. 1.03  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.112.82 (talk) 03:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Caption 

message: “Other sources have also pointed out that MEMRI's translation "I will commit martyrdom" should more accurately have been "I'll become a martyr" – a passive statement rather than an active/aggressive threat.”
Is this supposed to mean that the sentence “I'll become a martyr” is in the passive voice? Because that would be completely wrong.
Tom S. Fox (talk) 12:06, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passive statement? 

message: I found additional sources for the translation controversy for the show of April 13. It took me some time, so I put them here in case somebody else needs them:
* Youtube clip of the show in question, with MEMRI subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNE__TiMZo
* Transcript of the MEMRI subtitles: http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2190.htm
I think it is quite clear from the video that it is the Farfour Mouse who says "I will shoot". To this, the little girl on the phone replies something in a low voice, and it is not translated. To me it sounds implausible from the context that the little girl would say "We will annihilate the Jews", although the show's hosts do their best to push her in that direction. -- Heptor  talk 12:49, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The most controversial statement, "we will annihilate the jews", is 33 seconds into the clip. The voice is crisp and clear, can somebody who understands Arabic please verify if the subtitle is correct or not? -- Heptor  talk 13:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for the controversial translation 

message: I love this section! It's so satisfying to think of Maniacal Mickey, Kill-a-Cat Bee and Cannibal Bunny as being dead. Not just on the show, but literally stone-cold dead!!! Now to get that stupid bear! - CharlieBrown25 (talk) 07:53, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 'Deceased' Section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: How about we make Wikipedia a non biased encyclopedia and settle out our differences. I argue that it is a known fact that groups like MEMRI are anti-Palestinian. As for terrorist views, let's call it controversial at least. And it is true that they are struggling against Israel and that they do fight. So let's compromise. I shall revert the page temporarily for now until we compromise and get some ideas. Any ideas? 2600:8803:BE00:17F:980F:177F:5872:F15B (talk) 01:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:ARBPIA3#500/30, IP editors and accounts with less than 500 edits and 30 days tenure cannot edit this article. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:35, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

text: You have to bring WP:RS and you should consider WP:OR and WP:DUE polices also.--Shrike (talk) 11:04, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Make Wikipedia better 

message: It's been off air over eight years now - surely this section needs relabelling to "Final cast" or somesuch? 62.190.148.115 (talk) 16:14, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call! I've edited the article to add the "current" characters' date ranges, and merged the two sections.  --  Zanimum (talk) 19:56, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Current" cast? 

message: If farfor's cousin nahoul is the older or younger brother of assoud, dosen't it also make assoud farfor's cousin Johnashu (talk) 13:32, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assoud is also farfor's cousin 

message: Just how are the people who worked on Tomorrow's Pioneers not arrested for not only plagiarism but for hate crimes?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clip877876 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your question about the article?Naraht (talk) 00:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  How!! 

message: The show aired after 2009, however I'm having a hard time finding episode names or descriptions for these episodes. A few sources I have of this is this page talking about one of the late actors, this Memri clip, and another Memri clip. I've also seen somewhere episodes dating to as recently as 2021, however I do not remember the link to these. I don't think I have enough sources to add these to the page myself, so if anyone else has more information that'd be great. AlexChillOut (talk) 02:21, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  There are more episodes that are not listed here 

message: Pddevlin041 (talk) 20:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That YouTube video about a show brainwashing children is not a reliable source. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2022 

message: :The show was / is actually still running as of October 2022, with its most recent host characters "Fakor and Karkour." It can be viewed on their official YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6VZglruZxqnWKnp0o9l0w/videos. I propose to make an edit to acknowledge the fact that this show has been running / revived far beyond 2009.
Arawaasdorp (talk) 18:14, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2023 

message: Remove the words "It contains antisemitism...anti-Americanism... Anti-Westernism". 
That statement is a generalization, not clearly backed up by the evidence cited.  
The entire article is written from only one point of view.    
 Thank you, 208.126.44.104 (talk) 17:32, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: These claims are made throughout the article and appear to have sources cited at the end of the sentence or paragraph. You'll need to establish a consensus on this page arguing how the statements are a . —Sirdog (talk) 03:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 January 2024 

message: Recently while browsing YouTube I stumbled upon this channel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-ry3fj9jl2y. It appears to have modern episodes of this show that aren't described in this article. I have also found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPOPnlqRis, which appears to be a clip from a modern episode of this show. 176.64.22.170 (talk) 16:25, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  This show appears to have a modern version published on YouTube