Talk:Chagatai language

message: == Extinct? ==
What are the (presumably not extinct?) "discrete languages" mentioned, and are they distinct enough to create a language barrier to the people involved?  -- WormRunner
A long time ago I asked for a source for the statement that the last speaker died in the 1990s, and none has been provided.  I cannot believe that there were still native speakers of classical Chagatay in the twentieth century: might it be a reference to Teke Turkmen, also sometimes known as "Chagatay"?  I am therefore going to delete this statement.  If anyone finds a source, they can reinstate it. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter who was what. This is about the language itself, and what matters there is what the language itself was like. This one was like Turkish, not Mongolian. 83.253.228.202 (talk) 01:38, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Turkic, not Turkish.  Turkish is the turkic language spoken in Anatolia today.50.111.46.18 (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

text: Please read my edit summary. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments 

message: What are the (presumably not extinct?) "discrete languages" mentioned, and are they distinct enough to create a language barrier to the people involved?  -- WormRunner
A long time ago I asked for a source for the statement that the last speaker died in the 1990s, and none has been provided.  I cannot believe that there were still native speakers of classical Chagatay in the twentieth century: might it be a reference to Teke Turkmen, also sometimes known as "Chagatay"?  I am therefore going to delete this statement.  If anyone finds a source, they can reinstate it. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinct? 

message: of course it's mongolian language. Tsagaadai(old version Chagatai) was a Mongolian.  in hystory of Mongolia at that time wasnt anyword turk. all ethnic groups had their names , but not still turk. turk was 1 time after huns there & go way to west after fight.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.44.231 (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter who was what. This is about the language itself, and what matters there is what the language itself was like. This one was like Turkish, not Mongolian. 83.253.228.202 (talk) 01:38, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Turkic, not Turkish.  Turkish is the turkic language spoken in Anatolia today.50.111.46.18 (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Family

message: What is the distinction (is there as distinction?) between Chagatai and Chagatay? I see that the latter appears to include the former in the Karluk branch of the Turkic language family according to the Infobox. TonySever (talk) 17:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Chagatai and Chagatay

message: Chagatai-French Dictionaries
Dictionnaire turk-oriental By Abel Jean B.M.M. Pavet de Courteille
https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur00courgoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=Zt8GAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur01courgoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=d6UCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur02courgoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=wamJAF5x50UC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
=== Name of uyghur language debate during the 19th century ===
See Uyghur_people#Origin_of_modern_nationality and Uyghur_language#History for context over the naming debate. The Uyghur themselves did not call themselves nor their language as "Uyghur", but some foreign European and Russians applied the "Uyghur" name to them in the 19th century, and in the 20th century the Soviet Union managed to impose the name "Uyghur" and get the Uyghurs themselves to use the name for their language and ethnic group through their puppet Sheng Shicai. The modern Uyghur language is descended from Chagatai language.
http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA172#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA173#v=onepage&q&f=false
A sketch of the Turki language by Robert Shaw
http://books.google.com/books?id=dw7gAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Vj1bAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZT1bAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false
=== Chagatai manuscript ===
https://archive.org/details/mirdjnmehpublip00navogoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=gr0MSY32LOwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/SharahAlAqeedaAlKhalisaciatayTurkish
06:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chagatai dictionaries and manuscript 

message: https://archive.org/details/mirdjnmehpublip00navogoog
http://books.google.com/books?id=gr0MSY32LOwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/SharahAlAqeedaAlKhalisaciatayTurkish
06:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chagatai manuscript 

message: All spelling as given by ref. [2] is correct  -  but I cannot see any reference for the spelling (and associated transcription) "جغتای / Jaghatay". Thus, I think:
Regarding all the examples given by ref. [2] together with today's Turkish form "Çağatay", the one correct Arab/Persian/Osmannic spelling is "چغتای".
DocumentReader (talk) 17:38, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct Arab/Persian/Osmanic spelling 

message: It seem like Chagatay is more used than Chagatai. Can anyone search it up on ngrams? Beshogur (talk) 10:20, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move? 

message: Baburnama page 207, Moghuli (chagatai) language was spoken amongst Hazaras and nikudaris Elyas719 (talk) 18:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read my edit summary. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chagatai Language  

message: In the table of Chagatai language#Orthography, Yeh is encoded in several different ways:
initial form: as U+FEF3 ARABIC LETTER YEH INITIAL FORM
medial form: as U+FEF4 ARABIC LETTER YEH MEDIAL FORM
final form: as U+FEF0 ARABIC LETTER ALEF MAKSURA FINAL FORM
isolated form: as U+FEEF ARABIC LETTER ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM
These encodings seem all to be problematic:
1. These characters from Unicode’s Arabic Presentation Forms-B U+FE70-FEFF should not be used. “Instead of these, letters from the Arabic block (U+0600..U+06FF) should be used for interchange.” (The Unicode® Standard 15.0 – Core Specification, p. 400)
2. In the Chagatai orthography, Yeh is used both to indicate consonantal /j/ (“y”) and the vowels /e/ and /i/. The use of both Arabic Alef maksura and Arabic Yeh for what should be one and the same abstract character is highly questionable.
I propose using U+06CC ARABIC LETTER FARSI YEH exclusively: not only has this character the correct semantics (and I have no doubt the familiar Persian letter was ‘borrowed’ for Chagatai, not the much more remote Arabic forms), but it also exhibits the correct shaping behaviour, retaining the two horizontal dots in initial and medial positions, while omitting them in final and isolated positions.
The rendering of initial, medial and final forms can be triggered by adding Zero Width Joiner characters (U+200D) at the appropriate places. This should probably done for all other initial, medial and final forms in the table as well.
What do you all think about this? Pimrietbroek (talk) 21:37, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encoding of Yeh