Talk:Transsexual/Archive 7

message: A noticable problem with the current page is the "Coming Out" section, which is currently empty. Although there is already a page on coming out it deals only briefly with transsexuals.
I suggest this section include:
* Coming out Process
* Stages of Coming out
** To Health Care Proffessionals
** To Family
** To Friends / Socially
** To employers / At work
* Legal steps in coming out
** Changing name
** Changing identity documents
** Legal recognition
Although now that i look at my own list, it may require its own article, with references to transsexualism, Legal_aspects_of_transsexualism, and external references.
Lwollert 11:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the "Coming Out" Section 

message: i velive this section rarely contains information about the actuall process. It would be great to have some references from a medical aspect here. besides that, great article! 88.73.249.4 (talk) 23:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Psychological treatment

message: Recently, the court case of Smith vs. Salem took place in the sixth circuit court. This case used a supreme court ruling to extend the definition of sex into the realm of gender, and with it include transgender as a protected class. I think this has merit for inclusion in the employment issues section. What do you think? Link to the opinion:. This is another useful document: 
LexieM 01:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it's an interesting read, and is actually already covered by Legal aspects of transsexualism.  Reading the brief, it does not actually seem as if they have extended any recognition to transsexuals as their target gender, but rather that discriminating against someone for not following the stereotypes provided for their gender is inappropriate, and the document refers to Smith throughout as a "male", albeit as an identified "transsexual", and "medically diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder".  Now, what this does do is create a rock and a hard place for employers (who are subject to Title VII) regarding dismissing a transsexual.  The employer cannot dismiss a transsexual as their original gender for expressing themselves as their gender of identity, but it's pretty certain that they wouldn't be able to dismiss a transsexual as their gender of identity, because if they had the job before, then they were qualified for the job, and the only thing that has changed is their sex.  Thus, if a employer were to attempt to dismiss them simply for assuming the new gender, they would be by definition firing someone based on their sex.  So, I rather see this decision as a boon to transgendered people who are not intending on altering their legal gender, and as protection for transgendered people who are intending on changing their legal gender, but have yet to do so.  In many cases though, the courts rulings on what a person's legal gender is can vary from state to state, from courthouse to courthouse and from judge to judge. --Puellanivis 18:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Legal aspects of transsexualism article should be liked to in the Employment Issues section as it contains much more information. But do you think we should make specific reference to Smith vs. Salem in this article because of its importance as the only decision on the US federal level that possibly offers protection? LexieM 01:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds certainly reasonable.  Please feel free to work up a short mention of the protection that it offers us, and then either post it here, or post it into the article.  You can leave it with "for more information see Legal aspects of transsexualism" or something like that.  I think it would certainly be helpful information. --Puellanivis 07:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:   Adding Smith vs. City of Salem to Employment issues sections 

message: This section is unclear.  If you use the medical model of diagnosis, as a minimum I would recommend giving some "gold standards" for diagnosis, with statements such as "People with HBS must have..." or "People who ... definitely do not have Harry Benjamin Syndrome"  I realize that this is difficult if there is no common anatomic, genetic, or biochemical  characteristics, or are there?  There is an assertion that the brains of Harry Bejamin Syndrome individuals are different.  Can you provide referrences to what these differences are, with PMID numbers?75.5.228.202 22:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diagnosis

message: The American Psychological Association has just released the final report from it's task force on trans issues.  The report is lengthy (126 pages), so adding relevant content should probably be accomplished by multiple editors.  For those interested, the report is available at http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/transgender/2008TaskForceReport.pdf.  Also relevant is APA's recent passage of an anti-discrimination policy regarding trans issues, the text of which is available at http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/transgender.pdf.
— James Cantor (talk) (formerly, MarionTheLibrarian) 14:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New report on transsexuality from American Psychological Association. 

message: Massive Massive Vandalism is what.  It looks like all of the work on these articles will have to be totally redone. --Hfarmer (talk) 13:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All move vandalism to the article and talk page have been fixed. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What the hell happened?

message: The image :Image:Tipton portrait.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --14:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Tipton portrait.jpg

message: To conform to the standards of WP:LEAD.  Could someone please do that.  If I have to do it.  What'll happen is someone or the other will lodge some riddiculous accusation or whatver.  With a proper expanded lead section, one that does not violate any WP policy then this article would be IMO a good article.  I would nominate it as such. Until then. --Hfarmer (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Expanding the lead

message: In the past when I tried this the article was so big, or the server's so busy that this process would never end.  This time it worked and generated a littany of issues with this article.
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
*Consider adding more links to the article; per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links) and Wikipedia:Build the web, create links to relevant articles.[?]
*You may wish to consider adding an appropriate infobox for this article, if one exists relating to the topic of the article. [?] (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]
*This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, then an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.[?]
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
**correctly
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?] 
*Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: behavior (A) (British: behaviour), behaviour (B) (American: behavior), recognize (A) (British: recognise), realize (A) (British: realise), criticize (A) (British: criticise), categorize (A) (British: categorise), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization), estrogen (A) (British: oestrogen), program  (A) (British: programme).
*Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
**Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant -  “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
**Avoid misplaced formality: “in order to/for” (-> to/for), “thereupon”, “notwithstanding”, etc.
*The script has spotted the following contractions: hasn't, Don't, Don't, Don't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
*As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Hfarmer (talk) 12:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Result of an Automated peer review

message: I've just created a new article about the case of Lydia Foy, who has spent 10 years fighting the Irish legal system over her gender issues.
I was hoping that some folk who read this might find the time to look at the article, improve it, comment, etc etc.
Many thanks,
--  Chzz  ►  01:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lydia Foy 

message: Undid the change from hierarchy to establishment because it's a quote and the word used by the sourse is hierarchy. Anniepoo (talk) 23:38, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hierarchy 

message: In the article about the ADA of 1990, someone added some text to what conditions are (were) specifically not covered.  (Such as poor eyesight correctable with lenses...)  Someone claimed that transsexuality is a condition specifically not covered.  I asked by 'citation needed' tag and on the Talk page for a citation.  Left it a month.  Have now removed it & commented again on Talk page.  If someone knows the claim to be true and has a citation for it, go for it. [I am not watching this page.] - Hordaland (talk) 07:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference would be http://finduslaw.com/americans_with_disabilities_act_of_1990_ada_42_u_s_code_chapter_126#3Sec. 12211. Definitions
...
    (b) Certain conditions
      Under this chapter, the term "disability" shall not include -
        (1) transvestism, transsexualism, pedophilia, exhibitionism,
      voyeurism, gender identity disorders not resulting from physical
      impairments, or other sexual behavior disorders;
 Zoe Brain (talk) 05:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transsexuality and the [[Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990]] 

message: The end of the section 1.1 "Process" has a paragraph on the Japanese legal situation regarding Transsexualism.  The "Standards of Care" described, the interaction of legal opinions, etc., are entirely unclear.  While I understand the subject matter is complex, the paragraph is hopelessly confusing (what is legal and what is not, how is it legal, etc.).  It needs to be clarified (or maybe removed entirely).--98.198.170.252 (talk) 02:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese Perspective 

message: The first two paragraphs of the Other languages and cultures section have nothing to do with "other" languages or cultures. One is about English terminology (specifically, pronoun use), and the other is historical information. Where can these paragraphs be moved to? rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 08:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be moved to the section on origins.  Or IMO perhaps it ought to be done away with.  I mean... isn't most of that information covered elsewhere?  Or perhaps we could move it to origins and edit it minimally just to emphasize that the information there is specific to western european culture? --Hfarmer (talk) 17:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Hirschfeld bit is appropriate in the Origins section, where you put it. But the totally unreferenced paragraph on gender pronouns isn't, since it's not about the origins of the transsexual movement or transsexualism diagnoses or anything, it's about social issues--what pronouns TS individuals prefer to have used. It still needs to go somewhere else, I think. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 18:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Other languages and cultures" 

message: See the discussion in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_LGBT_studies#Transgender_sexuality_article. A.A.Graff (talk) 15:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge suggestion 

message: Right in the article!
"Arif, which advises the NHS in the West Midlands about the evidence base of healthcare treatments, found that most of the medical research on gender reassignment was poorly designed, which skewed the results to suggest that sex change operations are beneficial.
Its review warns that the results of many gender reassignment studies are unsound because researchers lost track of more than half of the participants. For example, in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons. Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals. He called for the causes of their deaths to be tracked to provide more evidence.
Dr Hyde said: "The bottom line is that although it's clear that some people do well with gender reassignment surgery, the available research does little to reassure about how many patients do badly and, if so, how badly."
You just included a bias and ridiculous statement within the article when the very researchers the poster is claiming  to quote discredit that same study based on the fact the RESEARCH WAS POOR!  This was not peer reviewed or backed by anyone. Well done on including second hand studys that has discredited it's own evidence. There hasn't been a study on transsexuals PERIOD! These were follow ups and were completely uncontrolled and unscientific.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.149.114.34 (talk) 07:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Why was the Arif study included ?

message: I marked this section as dubious. Not all trans women are or want to be conventionally feminine. Not all trans men are or want to be conventionally masculine. Gender roles cover a lot of ground, but in my experience, they most often refer to gender stereotypes; if the section is interpreted to refer to gender stereotypes it is false. 72.66.63.94 (talk) 00:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Gender Roles - Dubious

message: I want to add some information about the struggles they face with their own families when coming out (e.g. being kicked out of their homes). I gathered this information through interviews with transvestites themselves. Would it be a reliable source? I spent nearly ten hours with two transvestites all together, but I also spoke to a group of about twenty to twenty-five transvestites about this topic. How would I add this to the references section?
YFortino (talk) 09:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding information gathered from interviews 

message: Is there any source for the comments about kathoey?  The remarks seem to me to be an oversimplification.  From what I read, the idea that Thailand is a TG/TS wonderland where everyone can be what they choose to be is a bit too idealized.  My understanding is that while it's a recognized and to some extent acceptable identity, it's not without some stigmatization.
Social Norm (talk) 10:09, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  kathoey 

message: "Transsexualism is a condition in which an individual identifies with a physical sex different from the one they were born with."
Just what on Earth does this mean?  "Identifies" and "physical sex" need definition.  Without that, you have no way of telling *what* is "different from the one they were born with".  There is also an unexamined philosophical view in this statement that is taken axiomatically.  And while it may not be technically incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition, this one does so awkwardly.  There are a lot of problems with this article, and that's before you get to the content.  Ugly!Ariablue (talk) 07:51, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  That ridiculous lede 

message: There is an issue in this section in that it says that Leslie Feinberg died because (s)he was refused treatment. Massive issue here in that Leslie is still alive! I know that a transman did die after being refused treatment but it was Leslie. Anyone know who it was? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 17:13, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Transsexualism#Stealth]] 

message: I suggest that the section "Regrets and Detransitions" be copies or moved to Sex reassignment surgery because all data currently there pertains to former patients of SRS.  Is there categorical information about people who have regretted only HRT or non-intervention transition, and would this be relevant? 69.243.148.33 (talk) 03:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest that "Regrets and Detransitions"  be copied or moved 

message: I have noticed for a long time whenever a film or tv show wants to portray a really sadistic psychopathic serial killer, 90 percent of the time they will make the character transsexual/ transvestite, so I added in a very short note in the media section although there are literally hundreds more examples that could be added in. It could be worth mentioning the alleged transsexualism of Ed Gein as a source for the stereotype, if we can call it that. I should probably have written this here first, I'm not 100% sure of the sources eligibility. Anyway please tidy up the comments rather than just deleting if possible, or if you do please tell me what changes need to be made to include the section, thanks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.131.24 (talk) 00:27, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem I see is that the source you give seems to be lacking mention of transsexualism in the context you use.  The main example is the list of movie and TV characters.  You say they are "transsexual and transvestites" but the source lists them all as cross-dressers (with one character "possibly intersexed" and one entry, The Dead Zone, not having any mention I can find anywhere).  The other sentence says "cashing in on homophobia and transphobia" while your source gives a direct quote "cashing in on the homophobia market" and they don't really explain what or who that market is (the confuses me because, in my personal experience the more homo/trans/bi-phobic a person is, the less likely they are to watch something that has an LGBT character even if the character is the bad guy).  To me it seems that all content should be removed from the article on transsexualism and, if appropriate, re-entered into another article such as cross-dressing, list of transgender characters in film and television, or transphobia.  Reliable sourcing is tricky; if you have spare time you may like to read WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:EMBED.  Thanks for contributing. Theinactivist (talk • contribs) 04:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transsexuals in the media - serial killers and psychopaths 

message: Why's there nothing anywhere about nontransexuals who are attracted to transexuals, actively seek transexuals, etc.--J. Daily (talk) 02:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh the so called "tranny chasers".  To be honest I don't think a whole lot has been written about them at all.  I know of some studies which look at the way HIV is transmitted among MSM's which look at the men who have sex with transsexuals.  Then there are the writtings of Ray Blanchard with refer to such men as gynandromoprhphiles.  Or some such.  But either of those things would be controversial.  They also ammount to one or two paper's.  Interesting question. hope someone looks at it eventually.--Hfarmer (talk) 06:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I also hope someone does a study of the difference between attraction to transgendered and/or transsexed people as people and fetishism of transgenderism and/or transsexuality.193.146.58.181 (talk) 22:45, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transexual Fetishism 

message: Assuming that someone has no idea what transsexualism is, would they be able to learn what it is from this article? I don't think so. 
I's love to go over the entire article sentence by sentence and explain what is wrong with each sentence that fails to communicate some concept or other, but given that the article is rather long, and I do not have as much time as I would like, I am just going to start at the beginning, and see how far I can get.
First sentence: Transsexualism describes the condition in which an individual identifies with a gender inconsistent or not culturally associated with their assigned sex, i.e. in which a person's assigned sex at birth conflicts with their psychological gender.
The sentence makes no sense in light of the fact that, overwhelmingly, what think about how someone comes to be identified as being of one sex or another, is that in most cases, the vast majority of cases, the sex of person is not a result of assignment, babies are not "assigned" a sex at birth, rather, adults look at the baby and see what sex it is, that is, they observe and describe the sex of a baby. Yes there are occasional exceptions but overwhelmingly the sex that we consider a person to be is thought to be the result of an initial description, at birth, not the result of an initial ascription. Sex "assignment" is overwhelmingly what people think happens when someone's initial described sex is not believed, and instead of considering the person to be the sex that they have been described as being, changes is labelling occur such that instead of being considered to be the sex that they have been described as being, they begin being called the sex that they have had ascribed to them, assigned to them. Without first defining "assigned" as being used in this context, the rest of the sentence fails to communicate anything to someone who does not already know what transsexualism is.
The second sentence also communicates very little, to anyone  A medical diagnosis can be made if a person experiences discomfort as a result of a desire to be a member of the opposite sex,[1] or if a person experiences impaired functioning or distress as a result of that gender identification.[2]
I have a concise way of describing what is wrong with that sentence. Let's say someone felt discomfort in their back when standing with their left leg forward and their back bent over at a 30 degree angle, and they had a desire to be able to stand in that positions without discomfort. If I told you that "a medical diagnosis can be made if a person experiences discomfort as a result of a desire to be able to stand with their left leg forward and their back bent over at a 30 degree angle" would you think that I had communicated anything to you that wasn't terribly obvious? We have not been told anything about why their back hurts, or why it hurts when they are in the position described. All we are told is that if we go to a doctor, she can come up with a diagnosis. Doesn't say what the diagnosis is. Doesn't say how the diagnosis is determined. Just that a diagnosis can be made. We all know that that is what doctors do whenever someone comes to them complaining with some sort of discomfort. This sentence might be appropriate for an article on what doctors do, but it tells us nothing about transsexualism.
After reading those sentences, if I didn't know what transsexualism is, I still wouldn't know. I'd just know that doctors make diagnoses.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nomenclator (talk • contribs) 01:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sex assignment is the generally recognized term for the process by which humans are assigned a sex at birth. Sex reassignment is a common term for people whose assigned sex is changed. Your concern about the first sentence would be better resolved at sex assignment. There are a number of diagnoses associated with gender identity and expression, but these are controversial and described in detail further down in the article. Jokestress (talk) 03:01, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shortcomings of article in defining and elucidating transsexualism 

message: Since this page cannot be edited, I was hoping that we could indicate that citation is needed regarding whether or not transsexualism is a condition. The debate is still ripe and hot just like the fight over homosexuality in the 70's. Homosexuality was also once considered a mental condition and was removed from the DSM and was not present in the DSM-III-R (the revision, published in 1987). I think it is inappropriate to call it a condition, life choice, or life style. I think it is best said as, "Transsexualism is when one identifies with a physical sex different from the one with which they were born.
Also, while transsexualism is stigmatized in many parts of the world, it is also accepted and even embraced in others (Thailand is a good example). Transsexualism remains controversial mostly in the United States. I do not feel this article's introduction gives a healthy global perspective on transsexualism. To add, I do not like the term "so-called" used to describe two-spirits. This implies that their belief is invalid, and thus gives the article's introduction an inappropriate tone.
Thank you, and please take these notes into consideration.
--Ectopedia (talk) 22:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the term "so-called" because it is biased. The DSM-IV defines transsexualism as a mental disorder, so I will cite the DSM-IV. Jenever Spirit (talk) 11:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The opinions of the transgender community are at least as important as the opinions of the psychiatric community.193.146.58.181 (talk) 22:34, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Condition" etc. 

message: This discussion may be of interest to readers of this talk page. Josh Gorand (talk) 23:57, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That is here now. Mateussf (talk) 13:42, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Article titles for transgendered people

message: It is incorrect to define transsexuals as "ones who feel that they belong to other gender", because transsexualism is about body, and then gender (depending on case). Transsexualism differs from other transgender exactly because of that, desire to belong to other sex, not gender. Transsexuals often despise their own bodies, and there are transsexual people who don't care about gender at all. No wonder many transsexuals are actually rebelling against this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.148.110.209 (talk) 19:49, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: IP, you mean what the lead (introduction) currently states? It's going by what WP:Reliable sources state, though that first source (the ICD-10 source) is currently a WP:Dead link and needs to be fixed. Also keep in mind, that like the article shows, some sources define transsexualism differently than other sources, so there is the WP:Neutral policy to keep in mind. What wording would you propose for the first and second sentences, and what WP:Reliable sources do you have to support you in that wording change? Flyer22 (talk) 20:05, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sex & gender confusion. 

message: I tried to see if a URL could be added for this edit and failed to find the article on the Bangkok Post page. Since I was able to find the other recently cited article without problems, I wonder if this content appeared only in the printed edition, or if something else has gone wrong. It would be good if an established editor with access to the BP can confirm that this textbook scandal was, in fact, reported there. Thanks. Samsara (FA • FP) 13:54, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bangkok Post article fails verification 

message: This is a groundbreaking change and must be included in this article. I could not see any mention of this in the previous comment. Apologies if it actually was mentioned and I missed it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Korhanerel (talk • contribs) 11:25, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Korhanere! You are quite right. Please be bold and write about it - using a good, secondary sources. With friendly regards, Lova Falk talk 09:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added a sentence with a link to the DSM-V fact sheet on gender dysphoria, since it looked like no one else had addressed this change yet. Funcrunch (talk) 00:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Funcrunch, I reverted you on these changes (the top ones) you made. Like my WP:Edit summary states, see the recent discussions at Talk:Gender identity disorder about this matter, especially the article move discussions. But to sum up, the DSM-5, which is significantly criticized by the medical community, does not change everything with regard to this "disorder or not a disorder" topic. And it's in the DSM-5 book as a diagnosable condition, regardless of the name change. I'm not sure what Lova Falk has to state about the matter now. Flyer22 (talk) 00:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks for the note - I will read the referenced talk page (which looks like it will take awhile!). I'm just glad to get the second part of my edit in there, as I saw no other mention in this article of the terminology change in the DSM-5 (whether or not the diagnosis is functionally different than GID). Funcrunch (talk) 00:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

text: You were better informed than I was,  Flyer22! Lova Falk talk 20:52, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transsexualism no longer defined as a disorder in DSM-V 

message: "Transsexualism is when an individual identifies with a gender inconsistent or not culturally associated with their assigned sex". This is wrong. The origin of the word (early 20th century) meant with "transsexual" body-parts that do not "fit" to the birth-sex or gender-expectations of the society (you can find that in texts about Parsifal for e.g.). A transsexual girl for e.g. is a girl who is born with masculinized body-parts. It would be good to check that and rework the article, so that the worldview from "gender dysphoria"-lobbyists (the world had been invented from Norman Fisk 1974) isn't being reproduced in an encyclopaedia. Thanks. --5.56.218.103 (talk) 15:57, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources please EvergreenFir (talk) Please  23:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:   (1904) "Parsifal und Klingsor: das Transsexuelle und das Sexuelle im Mann, auf 2 Personen verteilt." Transl.: "Parsifal and Klingsor: the transsexual and the sexual in men, diversified onto two persons".  (1920) "Nur das Sexuelle, nie das Asexuelle, Transsexuelle im Manne wirkt als solches auf die Frau, und nicht Schönheit, sondern volles sexuelles Begehren verlangt sie von ihm.". Translation: "only the sexual, not the asexual, transsexual in a man has an impact on women, and she doesn't demand the beauty but only full sexual desire from him". The author speaks of "in", so it is not based on society but on parts of a person in itself. It's sex, not gender. Sex and Gender are two different things. --5.56.218.103 (talk) 22:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transsexual. Origin of the word 

message: The definition of: "Transsexualism is when an individual identifies with a gender inconsistent or not culturally associated with their assigned sex, i.e. in which a person's assigned sex at birth conflicts with their psychological gender." is cumbersome and inaccurate. Is it not more correct to say instead: "Transsexualism is when an individual identifies with a gender other than their actual sex, and lives to a greater or lesser degree as if they are of the other gender". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalcourtier (talk • contribs) 
:No. See assigned sex. EvergreenFir (talk) Please  05:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: "Transsexualism" as a descriptor for transsexual people is a word that's historically been used in older versions of the DSM, and by sexologists and radical feminists. It's often used in works that are critical of transsexual people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Would_Be_Queenhttp://www.amazon.com/Gender-Hurts-Feminist-Analysis-Transgenderism/dp/0415539404
I noted in editing the page on Sheila Jeffreys, a radical feminist Australian academic with hateful views on transsexual people, that an editor defending Jeffreys was very quick to change my use of transsexuality to "transsexualism". This got me looking at the use of the word.
"Transsexualism" has been dropped from the DSM in favour of less problematic language. The GLAAD media style manual http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender states of "Transgenderism":
Just as "transgenderism" is used in a dehumanising way, "transsexualism" is also used to dehumanise transsexual people and to reduce transsexuality to a theory, ignoring growing consensus that transsexuality is an innate part of human gender identity.
Note that Wikipedia has no page called "Lesbianism", nor "Homosexualism".
Chocolate vittles (talk) 23:13, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me, but since I am the editor you mention without naming, I have to say that none of my edits were concerned with "defending Jeffreys". I am not going to get into a discussion of her views, but suffice it to say they are not mine. As I made repeatedly clear, it's perfectly acceptable to mention criticism of Jeffreys in the article; it's just that this has to be done in an appropriate way. As far as the title of this article is concerned, I think personally that it is fine the way it is. "Transsexualism" is a widely used term, and not at all the equivalent of "Homosexualism" (an eccentric, seldom-employed expression). FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:57, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

text: Probably best to start a WP:RM. I agree that "transsexualism" is no longer the WP:COMMONNAME and the page should be moved. We need to avoid WP:NEOLOGISM, but I think "Transsexual" would be best. But this page is about the medical diagnosis so we need to see that it's called in that context. EvergreenFir (talk) Please  04:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Propose changing name of page from Transsexualism to Transsexual.

message: added a disease infobox to the page, restoring the content originally added by an IP editor on Feb 10. in this edit. At the very least this is a contentious edit and should be discussed. 
Should we include the  for this since there is an ICD code for it? EvergreenFir (talk) Please  19:47, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The use of  is unnecessarily contentious. Having the IDC codes in the body would be useful, but the use of infobox:disease in the lede is undue. Jim1138 (talk) 21:48, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

text: Agree on the contentiousness. I note ICD 11 beta has dropped transsexualism altogether in favour of gender incongruence. DSM hasn't listed transsexuality since rev 4.Chocolate vittles (talk) 09:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Disease", DSM, and ICD