Talk:End of World War II in Europe

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Capitulation of nazi germany. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 11#Capitulation of nazi germany until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.   — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Capitulation of nazi germany" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Defeat of Nazi Germany. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 11#Defeat of Nazi Germany until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.   — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:31, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Defeat of Nazi Germany" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: "A small group of German soldiers deployed on Svalbard in Operation Haudegen to establish and man a weather station there lost radio contact in May 1945; they surrendered to some Norwegian seal hunters on 4 September, two days after Japan formally surrendered." - wrong, right open radio communication with weather reports from the troop for weather broadcast. problem the difficult evacuation through norwegian english troops 46.94.171.52 (talk) 17:21, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation Haudegen Svalbard 

message: Order JCS 1067 was signed into effect by President Harry S. Truman on 10 May 1945. This was part of the post-war economic plan that advocated how the Allied occupation would include measures to prevent Germany from waging further war by eliminating its armament industry and the removal or destruction of other key industries required for military strength. This included the removal or destruction of all industrial plants and equipment in the Ruhr. In 1947, JCS 1067 was replaced by JCS 1779 that aimed at restoring a "stable and productive Germany"; this led to the introduction of the Marshall Plan.
This seems to me very pointy and I think is a way of trying to include undef "Order JCS 1067" the   Morgenthau Plan by the back door (it was used by the Nazis as a propaganda tool to encourage the German People to fight on to the bitter end). However as the Morgenthau Plan article states
The paragraph is written as if "Order JCS 1067" was implemented as Allied Policy " It was not, or ever was, an Allied plan. Again to quote from the Morgenthau Plan article "".
Also while it is true that the Morgenthau Plan was "", "Order JCS 1067" was not "", instead as Morgenthau Plan article makez clear it was a guide for the US Army only to help the Germans with reconstruction to prevent undue suffering by the Germans: (" ")
So in summery if the paragraph I removed is to be retained it needs to be rewritten so it is clear what is was (not a regurgitation of Morgenthau Plan) and that it was limited to the American zone. However it introduces a bias because it is emphasising American plans and not those od the Allies in their zones. In that it falls foul of WP:UNDUE. So this aricle would probably need a whole section (or link to an article) dedicated to life in the various Occupid Zones immediatly post war to remove UNDUE. -- PBS (talk) 13:58, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Using Wikipedia:WikiBlame I found the insertion of this paragraph: as of 11:16, 30 September 2016 by 81.132.173.235  with the edit comment: "Timeline of surrenders and deaths: no mention of the Morgenthau Plan - for post war Germany."  Which confirms my initial comment in my first post to this section "This seems to me very pointy and I think is a way of trying to include undef "Order JCS 1067" the   Morgenthau Plan by the back door". — PBS (talk) 14:19, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order JCS 1067  ([[Morgenthau Plan]]) 

message: I have moved this from the article because it is misleading. It is too subjective a subject to start cherry picking events of historical importance and calling it the end. The Allies had not even entered German territory when Auschwitz  was liberated. I thought the the consensus for this article and the "end" was German troops began to be captured unequivocally in large numbers and the Allies had entered de facto German territory. Without clarity of what is the end, it could could be argued that the defeat at Stalingrad in 1943 was the beginning of the end of Nazi Germany. It's a very slippery slope.
Red Army soldiers from the 322nd Rifle Division liberated Auschwitz concentration camp on 27 January 1945 at 15:00. Two hundred and thirty-one Red Army soldiers died in the fighting around Monowitz concentration camp, Birkenau, and Auschwitz I, as well as the towns of Oświęcim and Brzezinka. For most of the survivors, there was no definite moment of liberation. After the death march away from the camp, the SS-Totenkopfverbände guards had left.
About 7,000 prisoners had been left behind, most of whom were seriously ill due to the effects of their imprisonment. Most of those left behind were middle-aged adults or children younger than 15. Red Army soldiers found 600 corpses, 370,000 men's suits, 837,000 articles of women's clothing, and seven tonnes (7.7 tons) of human hair. At Monowitz camp, there were about 800 survivors and the camp was liberated on 27 January by the Soviet 60th Army, part of the 1st Ukrainian Front.
Soldiers who were used to death were shocked by the Nazis' treatment of prisoners. Red Army general Vasily Petrenko, commander of the 107th Infantry Division, remarked, "I, who saw people dying every day, was shocked by the Nazis' indescribable hatred toward the inmates who had turned into living skeletons. I read about the Nazis' treatment of prisoners in various leaflets, but there was nothing about the Nazis' treatment of women, children, and old men. It was in Auschwitz that I found out about the fate of the Jews."
As soon as they arrived, the liberating forces, which contained the Polish Red Cross, helped survivors by organizing medical care and food; Red Army hospitals cared for 4,500 survivors. There were also efforts to document the camp. As late as June 1945, there were still 300 survivors at the camp who were too weak to be moved. 80.189.122.156 (talk) 11:25, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberation of Auschwitz