Talk:Symphony No. 26 (Haydn)

message: It ends with the minuet.  I'll clean up the movement section later.  DavidRF 23:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right.  Cleaned up.  This is what happens when you use a boilerplate. Eusebeus 14:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This symphony only has three movements 

message: First of all, lowercase, second of all, according to m:de:Sinfonie no. 26 (Haydn) and other sources (not all of which agree of course... anyone have resource to a manuscript copy?) isn't it Allegro assai e con spirito
or even possibly Allegro assai con spirito? Schissel | Sound the Note! 06:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK.  I'm not the original author, but that's what all my CD's say.  I've changed it.DavidRF 16:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegro con spirito?

message: Can you provide me the HCRL reference for the assertion of when it was authored? When I wrote the article, I think I pulled the date (I think - it was a while ago) after checking with the HCRL biography and so I am interested where the direct reference is. Thanks! Eusebeus 20:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I'm wondering myself- I don't think that section of the article gives a reference for the dates, though I'll look again. It follows them with contrasting quotes from two HCRL works- and I assumed, and should not have. I am beginning to gather that Zaslaw has done research into this dating himself, in fact.
Hrm. It's from a table at the end of the article entitled "Symphonies (and two other works) of Joseph Haydn with sacred connections according to Landon." That doesn't mean that Landon's dating is used, or if so from when (a revision later in his career, say, since it quotes "Haydn: Chronicle and Works" as well as "The Symphonies of Joseph Haydn".
(No previews of the Landon books available from Google books- which may prove a useful resource where available, within required limits, that I only began to think about using today...)
Also interesting and related to a work on which there is as yet no Wikipedia article is - well, re Symphony No. 34 in D question-mark: since it seems that Haydn's own listing -in a (the? one of three?) catalog he put together of his symphonies at the end of his life - has the slow movement in second place.
Which would make that work (possibly written, not in 1770, but earlier than sym. 26, according to recent sources?  - I need to look into why the claim is made that sym. 34 is "the first Haydn symphony in the minor"- if it's in the minor at all, which I now come to doubt- and according to Ethan Haimo's Haydn's Symphonic Forms: Essays in Compositional Logic (page 43, searchable at Google Books) Haydn's minor-mode symphonies before 1770 were 26 and 39, 34 not in his list...)- a symphony in D major, wouldn't it, if accurate... (depending on whether, as with sym. 26 apparently and some Haydn scores certainly, the manuscript is not yet found, the first published score- with D minor slow movement first- may not have been seen by Haydn, etc. ... - see Drei Haydn Kataloge in Faksimile, mit Einleitung und erganzenden Themenverzeichnissen by Jens Peter Larsen (1902-1988) as reviewed in Music & Letters, Vol. 27, No. 3 (Jul., 1946), pp. 195-197 -- anyway, the Larsen book reviewed in that article was republished by Pendragon Press in 1979, as "Three Haydn catalogues", .) (Haimo does maintain that 34 opens with a slow movement, though...)
BTW Zaslaw questions the use of Sturm und Drang to describe symphony 26 and other pre-1770 Haydn symphonies, as the movement in literature (and music) was barely in existence by the time that work was written, and for other reasons (viz. his review of Salomons' recording of the work (Sturm und Drang Symphonies 1766-1768 (Nos.35, 38, 39, 49, 58, 59), The Musical Times 124 (1681): 173-4 (Mar. 1983). Also and more pointedly re: Haydn and Sturm und Drang, see the article by Mark Evan Bonds, "Haydn's 'Cours complet de la composition' and the Sturm und Drang" in the book Haydn Studies, W. Dean Sutcliffe, ed.,  (previewable at least in part over google books too. -  Schissel | Sound the Note! 00:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the extensive answer - I have a fair amount more to say, but two quick points. 1) I checked in the Biography & you are quite right, HCRL gives the date as 1768 or 1769 so that is my idiocy in providing the wrong date. Second, I think that mention should be made about the fact that, ending as it does with a simple menuet, it is possible - no likely - that the work was simply the opening to a larger piece, presumably connected to the Passion. Several examples from Handel, etc... should suffice to show stylistic correlation. This detail, however, is NOT mentioned in HCRL.  I am going to cross-post this to the talk page, since it may be useful to centralise the discussion. Cheers! Eusebeus 23:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Composition 

message: The Wiki for Symphony 39 describes it as the first Sturm & Drang symphony in a minor key.  Yet the Lamentatione, no. 26 (d minor) is listed in Wiki as a Sturm & Drang work.  Some musicologists appear to have a bit too much Sturm in their Drang.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthromorph2000 (talk • contribs) 08:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone's Haydn the truth