Talk:Spanish Civil War/Archive 1

message: Looks quite developed. I think that the problem here is not the lack of content, but too much of it. Assuming 'detailed chronologies', 'people' and 'Political parties and organisations' are moved to subarticles, do you think this would make a good featured? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:03, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO, a couple more legal images would be fine.  The article only has 1 image after all.  MB 04:17 23 May 2003 (UTC)
I've recently brought over a lot of new content from the Spanish-language wikipedia. I've done my best to integrate it, but someone may want to take an editorial pass. Also, it seems to me that we ought to have several "sidebar" articles dealing with things like the internal situations in Madrid and Barcelona during the war and there should probably be a lot on Spanish anarchism and the various plitical parties of the time that either exists and should be linked to, or doesn't and should be written. -- Jmabel 09:02, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)

text: An atttribution would certainly be nice, and I didn't put it there, but it's certainly on the mark as to how some viewed it. I've seen Hearst Movietone newsreels from the period, and that is pretty much the picture they present. It's also the rhetoric to be found in Franco's speeches during the war. It had very little basis in reality, in my opinion, but leaned heavily on communist atheism and anitclericalism, and the destruction of churches (and -- in some cases -- torture, murder, etc. of clergy and members of monastic orders) that occurred in the opening weeks of the war. I think the article is accurate in saying that the atrocities in those opening weeks were roughly equal, but the fact that many on the Republican side targeted the Church was endlessly exploited in the Nationalists' rhetoric, and struck a note with conservatives elsewhere who otherwise might have kept more distance from fascism. -- Jmabel 17:55, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: peer review comment copied

message: I added two posters, one for each side of the conflict. I tried to be concise and neutral in the captions and I hope the images are appreciated.--McCorrection 16:14, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posters 

message: You have a nice article here. If there is any user/group working on this, I think you should consider putting in on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:43, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured? 

message: I agree with TDC that it is appropriate to that the first mention of the International Brigades indicate Comintern support in recruitment. However, I'm uncomfortable with his change from a mention of "limited support from the Soviet Union" to:
The Republicans received extensive support from the Soviet Union. This included 1,000 aircraft, 900 tanks, 1,500 artillery pieces, 300 armored cars, hundreds of thousands of small arms and 30,000 tons of ammunition. To pay for these armaments the Republicans used $500 million dollars in gold reserves captured from the Nationalist stronghold.  
While I can't say anything for or against the numbers (and, as seems to be a pattern, TDC has added a contentious statement without citing a single source: TDC, you must get this stuff somewhere, and you know it will be disputed, why don't you ever just cite your sources?), everything I've ever read on the subject says (1) Soviet aid to the Republic was dwarfed by German and Italian aid to the Nationalists. (2) During most of the war the Italian Navy prevented Soviet materiel from reaching the Republic. Hence, even if these numbers are accurate, I suspect that without comparable numbers for the Nationalists they may be misleading.
#Is there a source for these numbers?
#: Why certainly.  [ TDC 19:21, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
#:* Good citations. I'll add them to the article. -- Jmabel 20:26, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
#Do we have comparable numbers describing German and Italian support for the Nationalists?
#: Comparable numbers for German/Italian contributions are available, I saw some when researching Soviet numbers. I dont know where exactly, but it was easy enough to find from google. TDC 19:21, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
#"captured from the Nationalist stronghold" is vague and confusing. Captured from what stronghold? Given especially that they were the legitimate government, this phrase is particularly suspicious.
#: TDC, looking at the references you've provided, I see nothing to support this: quite the contrary and I will edit accordingly. -- Jmabel 20:38, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
I'm not going to remove this right now, because I've seen that TDC's stuff usually (though not always) has some basis, but given both the specificity of the numbers and, conversely, the vagueness of "stronghold", I'd really like to see a citation.
Also, reference to a $500 million dollar payment raises interesting questions. Were the Nationalists paying Germany and Italy for their armaments? There is an important distinction between selling arms to a belligerent and giving them without payment.
: Well, it was more than just paying for arms. No one gives armaments to anyone without some from of compensations. Even the lend lease had financial strigns attached. I am sure some form of payment was required for Italian/German arms, but I dont have a source on it. I am sure one could be dug up easily enough if it exists. Some info on the gold payments can be found here:  , although I cannot verify the accuracy of the source. (TDC)
:* Interesting: if accurate, this suggests that as sole suppliers the Soviets were charging extortionate rates for equipment. -- Jmabel 20:36, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
::* Here is the book on which the article was written if you want to check it out from your local library  TDC 20:43, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
: I sould also point out that the Soviet contribution was not only in armamnets but also in Soviet military personelle to train and operate this equipment. Normally, this would not be out of the norm; advisors to train on new equipment, but "advisors"  (real advisors at any rate) dont participate in hostilities.  TDC 19:21, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
If we answer all of this, we will have made a useful addition to the article, but I think that this change as it stands is not yet very useful. -- Jmabel 19:04, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
: Granted, this section could use more work, but it should most definately be incorporated into the article one way or another. TDC 19:21, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
: The gold reserves were those of the Bank of Spain, legitimately held by the Republican government. There is no evidence I can recall that the Soviets charged more than market rates for war materiel, but there was nationalist propaganda that the Republicans had transfered the entire gold reserves of the country to Moscow in exchange for Soviet help Benvenuto 02:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Communist support 

message: I was just have a little gander at this article and was shocked at the lack of information on the welsh involvment in this war. The welsh people are incredibly proud of their invovlment in the coflict and I hope someone could at something relating to them in this or the foreign involvement article (tower junkie doesn't know his password) 86.148.134.58 21:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh involvment

message: : This section spared from archiving 06:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's "Homage to Catalonia", and he fought with the POUM, not the International Brigades. But what does that demonstrate about there being references to this rather thatn to the USSR in Animal Farm. - Jmabel | Talk 06:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "inspired by" ?