Talk:The Mothers of Invention

message: I think I read somewhere that the band reformed with past members from each incarnation of the Mothers of Invention, but had to change their name due to legal pressure from Gail Zappa.  Grandmothers? Someone verify. --Psycho78m 22:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Mothers beyond Frank Zappa

message: Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the original guitarist of this band is the same billionaire Ray Hunt who is linked. I am changing the link, if anyone has documentation that I am wrong, please reinstate the link. TheGoblin 19:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ray Hunt, the billionaire?

message: Someone has put him in as drummer, and written a brief somewhat strange article about him; John Swank. Is he for real? Or is this just a joke? --HJ 21:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a Google search (here), and the only hits I found for a John Swank with any Zappa connection were a few mentions on a MySpace page for some biker/punkabilly type band.  Whoever he is, he's been re-inserted into the article.  And the explanation on the talk page for the John Swank article is intriguing.  Could be for real, could be a joke.  (I guess that's always a danger with anything Zappa-related.)  MrBook 20:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The page John Swank is suggested for deletion. Even though the story indeed is intriguing, I think such "news out of the blue" require firm proof. I.e., someone gotta get the microfilm out of the library and onto the web for all to see. Otherwise, I am not convinced (also he is no longer called "drummer" here, but "percussive savant"). Let see what happens to the page.--HJ 21:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No more page on "John Swank", so I have fired him from the Mothers in the main article.--HJ 23:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Who is drummer John Swank?

message: Alice was a member prior to the Mother's first album. See Alice's Wikipedia entry below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Stuart  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4B80:1BC4:61D9:8FCE:6DCC:4E89 (talk) 02:10, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Omission of Alice Stuart as a past member of the Mothers of Invention

message: Anonymous user 148.244.235.250 removed several albums without comment from the discography. I have reverted the changes. I think the point of the removals has been to remove those albums which do not explicitly state "The Mothers" on the cover. For example, The Lost Episodes which nevertheless contains many tracks with line-ups that were known as "The Mothers". So a general discussion is in order: Should the discography only include albums where the name "The Mothers" (or "The Mothers of Invention") are explicit, or should it also include Frank Zappa works where line-ups are unmistakenly "The Mothers"?--HJ 06:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's my idea: it's a bit convoluted, but I think it's most likely to be accurate: any record by a line-up explicitly referred to as "The Mothers" or "The Mothers of Invention" should be considered a Mothers release, in addition to any release which does not explicitly refer to The Mothers by name but nonetheless features a line-up previously or subsequently described as a Mothers of Invention line-up. If that makes sense, heh. --Jacj 21:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: In fact, if we wanted to get nitpicky, you could also differentiate between the two types of Mothers release with a symbol or something. --Jacj 22:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I had always thought that the discography was constructed as you suggest (e.g., 200 Motels is formally an FZ album, but a band sufficiently close to a Mothers version - except for bassist Martin Lickert-  plays on it, so it should be listed here). Adding some symbol signalling "FZ release containing tracks with line-ups usually referred to as The Mothers " should be easy. It it gets an OK, I'll be willing to do it.--HJ 10:31, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What to include in discography?

message: In 1970, Zappa created a new incarnation of The Mothers which inlcuded only one other original Mothers member, Don Preston. This 'new' lineup also featured British-born drummer Aynsley Dunbar (ex-John Mayall's Bluesbreakers), multi-instrumentalist Ian Underwood (keyboards, guitar, woodwind, vocals) and Ruth Underwood (marimba, vibes), who had joined the original Mothers for the recording of Uncle Meat in 1969.
There are some problems with this. One - the first 1970 Mothers lineup did not include Don Preston. He didn't tour and perform with this version of the Mothers until 1971. Ian Underwood, on the other hand, WAS an "original" Mother of Invetion (he's on Uncle Meat and toured with the Mothers in 1968-69). Ian also doesn't play guitar on any Zappa / Mothers recordings, and didn't play guitar in concert (is he, in fact, a guitar player at all?) Ruth Underwood played some percussion parts on Uncle Meat and plays drum set with the orchestra in 200 Motels, but she otherwise did not tour / perform with the Mothers until 1972 (Grand Wazoo tour) and didn't record with Zappa / Mothers until 1973 (Overnite Sensation).
George Duke (keyboards, trombone, vocals) first performed with Zappa in 1970 on 200 Motels and subsequently became a key member of the Zappa's mid-70s touring bands. New Mothers members included Jim Pons (bass), Bob Harris (keyboards, vocals), vocalists Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman (aka "The Phlorescent Leech & Eddie", former members of '60s pop group The Turtles), 
This much is correct, though I would note that Bob Harris didn't get drafted into the Mothers until spring 1971.
and Jeff Simmons (bass, ex-Captain Beefheart), who performed only on 200 Motels.
Simmons was NOT in Beefheart's band - he did have a solo album to his credit, produced by Zappa and released on FZ's Straight Records label and was, prior to being in the Mothers, in a band called Easy Chair in his native Seattle, but he did NOT play with Beefheart. Also, Simmons doesn't even appear or perform on or in 200 Motels. However, he plays bass on a good chunk of the Chunga's Revenge LP (his only album credit with Zappa, IIRC) and does backing vocals on that album as well.
Manufactured to Comply 17:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs some editing and fact-checking here

message: I included a trivia section related to the Mothers of Invention with a link to Deep Purple's song Smoke on the Water in which Frank Zappa and The Mothers were referenced. It was redacted the next day. I'm asking why?
:Sorry, forgot to sign. Finrod61 02:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The editor who originally removed this stated his reason in the edit summary, "The info is already in the Frank Zappa article (also Trivia sections are discouraged)". I agreed with his reasoning so I removed it two more times. On a side note, when you readded the info the second time, you included the phrase "Beware of edit wars" in your edit summary which might be construed as disruptive. --Bongwarrior 09:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redaction of Trivia section

message: Mothers of Invention wasn't a rock and roll band, at least mainly. It should be put as experimental rock. 83.148.246.254 (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Rock and roll?

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
* If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 20:23, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:The Mothers of Invention.png nominated for speedy Deletion

message: The photo in the infobox is of The Grandmothers, a Frank Zappa-Mothers of Invention spin-off, I feel is inappropriate. The article is about the Mothers of Invention, and contains no text sufficient even to move the photo down chronologically. The photos on the Wikipedia are there to reflect and enhance what is being said in the text of the article: WP:IMAGES.  --Leahtwosaints (talk) 17:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of this very subject recently, but I've found myself faced with even more time constraints than usual (you know, paying business and adventure calling and whatnot).  Something tells me that there was someone out there determined to promote The Grandmothers, with no one yet objecting until now.  Anyway, it looks like the original infobox photo was the photo of Zappa in Oslo in 1977, which was pulled because it depicted Zappa as a solo artist and not as a member of The Mothers.  Looking at the Commons category, the best choices appear to be :File:Frank Zappa Mothers of Invention 1971.JPG or :File:Mothers of Invention Hoepla 1967.png.  In choosing, what kind of swirling shitstorm would you start amongst the contingent who contend that anything following the 1969 breakup is really Zappa and not The Mothers?RadioKAOS (talk) 18:37, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox photo

message: In fact, Mothers of Invention disbanded in 1976, but not in 1975. Last of the group was as follows: Zappa-Murphy Brock-Estrada-Lewis and Bozzio.  Source - FZ Chronology and Book of Neil Slaven.--Mmlov (talk) 20:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, the lineup which dropped "Black Napkins"?  If so, do we treat that as "The Mothers" or "Frank Zappa"?  Or maybe at least acknowledge a transition there?  I think this is along the same lines as the discography discussion above. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  07:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose to continue the discussion on this topic.--Mmlov (talk) 19:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Zappa's group continued to be explicitly billed as "The Mothers" until March 1976. At some point in 1976, he decided to rename his act to just "Zappa." The last records billed to the Mothers came out in 1975. Yspaddadenpenkawr (talk) 15:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: 1976

message: Today is April 6, 2016. I am going to clean up this page. There are many thing in the header that belong in the lower section -- below the TOC. If you have any input, please speak up. I will start in this weekend April 9, 2016. meatclerk (talk) 15:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Just curious. By cleaning up, do you mean mostly moving content out of the lead into the article? Or mostly removing content? - DVdm (talk) 17:39, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: PAGE CLEAN UP

message: Ray Collins has clearly stated in interviews that there was no fight which led to Zappa joining the band. The source for this information comes only from Zappa, who was not a party to the fight.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.89.172 (talk) 02:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  alleged fight between Collins and Coronado 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Zappa's band. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 24#Zappa's band until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.   -- Tamzin[cetacean needed]  (she/they) 23:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Zappa's band" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I have added  to the article. In a career playing with many other musicians, the 1½ years he spent with The Mothers represents him poorly. I plan to write the article replacing the redirect for  within a month. Until then, readers / editors can at least view the redirect that contains a link to the Wikidata item that contains so much more about him. Who knows, perhaps that information will inspire another editor to create the article before I can get to it.
I believe that this is an instance in which WP:Ignore all rules clearly applies. Peaceray (talk) 15:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Ralph Humphrey