Talk:Neoclassical dark wave

message: Well, seeing as the darkwave article has darkwave as a single word, I think it would be more appropriate to call this article Neoclassical (darkwave). Certainly, it shouldn't have the capitals on Darkwave or Dark Wave, as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Lowercase second and subsequent words in titles. Anyone have any objection to that? J Milburn 22:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you rename the "Darkwave" article to a "Dark Wave" article? This genre is inseparably connected to the New Wave movement and i can't find a Newwave article. Most of the mentions in germany are "Dark Wave" - not "Darkwave". "Darkwave" is mainly a spelling of the Projekt label in USA. They didn't use the term before 1993. --~Menorrhea  17:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is interesting, I didn't realise that. I was under the impression that darkwave was the more accurate spelling for a number of reasons- for instance, google asks if I mean 'darkwave' when I type 'dark wave'. Hmmm, looking around a few music sites, the term 'dark wave' does appear to be more prevelent. In either case, this should be moved due to the unneeded capitals anyway. J Milburn 18:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't move it, there seems to be a technical problem. I tried the Dark Wave lemma, maybe we must delete the disambiguation. --~Menorrhea  03:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that disambiguation page meets a speedy deletion criteria, and so I have am nominating it. After that, presuming you have raised the matter on the Darkwave talk page, and a consensus has been met, you will be able to move it. J Milburn 16:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There seems to be a lot of life in the darkwave article, the debate should now be moved there. If it is decided to keep it as it is, this article should be renamed as I originally proposed. Help:Moving a page may well be relevent, and the tags at Wikipedia:Cleanup tags#Moving will also be. J Milburn 16:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article naming

message: Wouldn't it be nice to have a disambiguation link (or whatever those couple-of-rows-things in italic are) to neoclassicism (classical)? Or would it be just a starting point of an endless sea of such linkings? I found the page a bit confusing, not aware of the whole genre, while randomly skimmed there. :)
Jaakko Kortesharju, contemporary music student, Finland (note, not my own IP, going to keep adding a real name signature if not registering) 87.162.167.20 19:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation link 

message: The article reads: 'In the middle of the 1980s, rock and post-punk groups such as Dead Can Dance (Within the Realm of a Dying Sun) and In the Nursery (Stormhorse), laid the foundations of this genre.' This statement (not sourced) seems a bit exaggerated, imo. Certainly these are important albums by any reckoning, but to imply that these two albums by themselves alone 'laid the foundations' for neoclassical darkwave, and all succeeding works built upon the foundations laid out by these two albums; says who? We can't go back in time to survey the situation, but it seems more likely that during the 1980's there were a number of important albums released by various new age and post-punk artists which which featured synthetic symphonic and chamber orchestration sometimes fused with gothic and medieval elements. It would be better to list some of these important early neoclassical DW albums (certainly more than just two), along with their dates and a source (if at all possible) which verifies that they were (1) significant albums and (2) (neo)classical in style. Comments? Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 15:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For Goth it was only a single (Bela Lugosi's Dead) that created a new genre. Dead Can Dance are one of the most popularly Neoclassical groups and a main influence for many following groups. Who are the other groups from the 1980s? New Age is not relevant for Dark Wave. Neoclassical Dark Wave cames from Post-punk (and maybe Post-industrial music). --Ada Kataki (talk) 23:48, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Foundations of this genre

message: ===Bacio di Tosca===
While this artist is clearly neoclassical darkwave, I don't believe they pass the Wikipedia Notability Criteria as outlined in WP:NM. Criterion number 5 is the one most commonly appealed to in determining Notability for non-pop music: Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable). Based on what little I know about this group, it appears that their debut album was released in November, 2007. Therefore, they do not pass the Notability criteria. If I am wrong about this, please supply the information here. Otherwise, this artist will be removed from the list. Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 16:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Elane was never Neoclassical Dark Wave. It's only a Folk-Pop group. --Ada Kataki (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Elane are folk does not bother me in the least, because it's very clear that numerous bands fit into more than one genre. A number of the bands in the notable artists list are not, strictly speaking, only neoclassical dark wave. However, your charge that they are pop does make me reconsider including them in the list. You are probably correct, because Elane have included a number of old pop ballads in their album releases. Furthermore, they do not possess that "moribund aesthetic" which is a characteristic of dark wave artists. Accordingly, I have reluctantly decided to remove them from the list. Thank you for your input. Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 22:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Artists List

message: While this artist is clearly neoclassical darkwave, I don't believe they pass the Wikipedia Notability Criteria as outlined in WP:NM. Criterion number 5 is the one most commonly appealed to in determining Notability for non-pop music: Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable). Based on what little I know about this group, it appears that their debut album was released in November, 2007. Therefore, they do not pass the Notability criteria. If I am wrong about this, please supply the information here. Otherwise, this artist will be removed from the list. Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 16:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bacio di Tosca

message: It is fairly common for bands to straddle several genres. In this case, Elane is both dark folk and neoclassical dark wave. I have supplied one reference for their being considered neo-classical. I can supply more if anyone so wishes. Their second album (Lore of Nén) is filled with (synthetic?) orchestration. Their third album (The Silver Falls) will be released in October, 2008. As a band they are very similar in nature to Narsilion and WeltenBrand; in all three bands there is a strong element of dark fantasy and myth. Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Elane was never Neoclassical Dark Wave. It's only a Folk-Pop group. --Ada Kataki (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Elane are folk does not bother me in the least, because it's very clear that numerous bands fit into more than one genre. A number of the bands in the notable artists list are not, strictly speaking, only neoclassical dark wave. However, your charge that they are pop does make me reconsider including them in the list. You are probably correct, because Elane have included a number of old pop ballads in their album releases. Furthermore, they do not possess that "moribund aesthetic" which is a characteristic of dark wave artists. Accordingly, I have reluctantly decided to remove them from the list. Thank you for your input. Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 22:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Elane

message: There are a number of artists (such as Der Blaue Reiter) whose work is what I would call neoclassical dark ambient; they are not what I would consider neoclassical dark wave. In the case of Life Toward Twilight, this artist appears to be strictly dark ambient. I went to their website and downloaded one of the three free live albums available there. While I can't speak for their other music, this particular album is what I would call dark ambient, not neoclassical dark wave, or even neoclassical dark ambient.  Daniel Grünfeld (talk) 21:43, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Life Toward Twilight

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This genre of music does not seem notable enough to be its own article, but might be mergable with Dark wave as a subgenre. DrowssapSMM 20:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal