Talk:Red Hand of Ulster

message: Why has the article been protected at the same time as changing 'County Londonderry' (used as per WP:IMOS) to 'County Derry'? « Keith » 19:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorted. « Keith » 19:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected? 

message: Unless you'd like to tell me it's not a copy + paste from the Red Hand Pub's website.
http://www.dorrians.com/nyc/history/index.html
66.176.37.51 (talk) 20:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Wikipedia article is indeed not a copy and paste of that website. In fact if you check the dates you'll find that the website mentioned in fact has copied from Wikipedia, not the other way around, and naughtily slapped a copyright 2007 notice on it when any lawyer in the world can show that Wikipedia had that text before that date. So no rewording is needed, Wikipedia is in the clear on this one. Ben W Bell talk 20:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Moved new discussion to the bottomGnevin (talk) 21:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alter the so called 'original' entry on the history of the Red Hand 

message: 1. The tales and the origin of the Red Hand i believe to have been brought into Ulster by the Berserkers associated with the one handed  Norse god of war, Tyr. Or possible ancient Germanic Tribe.
2. There was the berserker practice of the Fountain of Tyr in which a berserker would cut his hand and use the blood of his spurting artery to blind a opponent. 
3. Nowhere in Europe is there any mention of any men associted with loosing one hand or the practice associted with one hand that only among the Scandinavians. example the saga of the berserker Egil the one handed in the Saga Einhenda ok Asmundar berserkjabana. 
4. Tyr  , was the chief god of the ancient Germanic tribes the Suebi of southern Germany who settled northern Spain modern day Galicia worshiped the god Tyr by the name Ziu.  
 
 
Among the Anglo - Saxons and Germanics , Tyr is referred as a star that " Keeps it's faith well with King’s, Princes, and Nobel’s, always in course through the dark of night, it never fails" The sailor's guiding star called “God’s Nail".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redhandking (talk • contribs) 19:01, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scandinavian origins? 

message: I added the most recent work (done today, mostly minor fixes, more sourcing and cutting down) I've done into the article. If you give it a good looking over you will see I have taken your concerns into account:
*You state that its ties to "Cruithin" (why you felt the need to put it in brackets I don't know) is dubious. Well most references to the Red Hand in the article point to the Ui Eachach and the Magennis', and well the Magennis' were the lords of Ui Eachach, and the Ui Eachach are according to contemporary and modern historians part of the Cruthin of Ulaid. Maybe you would prefer we use the sole name used in annals to denote the Cruthin after 773AD instead, the Dál nAraidi? It makes no difference as they are one and the same unless your using Dál nAraidi to specifically refer to the dynasties of Magh Line or the in Tuaiscirt. Regardless I only mention Cruthin three times in the latest version, two times when stating what tribe the Uí Eachach Cobo belonged to, and in O'Curry's statement on Lugaid Lámderg. 
*Why the Magennis/Ui Eachach have favourable prominence of all the Ulaid clans to the symbol? I don't know. Obviously the medieval bard Maol Sheachluinn na n-Uirsgéal Ó hÚigínn knows why. Obviously the Mac an Bhaird bardic family know why. Are you doubting the "notoriously oral" history preserved by the bards even when they write it down?
*The oral history is actually greatly expanded upon and it is ironic that there are bards that refer to the symbol belonging to the Ui Eachach/Magennis'. Also it is synthesis, original research and downright deceptive and misleading to try to imply that the reason why there is no mention of the Red Hand prior to the Norman use of the symbol in the 13th century is because of "notoriously oral" tradition when the historic period of Ireland (the written history) started around the 5th century! Though to take your concern into account I changed the statement to  with the addition of "surviving" because obviously not all written documents survived the passage of time, especially those from before the 11th century and who knows what long lost texts might have said about the hand. I also stuck the rooted in Gaelic culture line from elsewhere in the article to the top of the section to cement its pre-Norman origin in Ireland.
*If you do decide to provide stuff for the article I implore you to post it here first so it can be measured against Wikipedia's policies and guidelines to ensure there is no synthesis, original research, weasel wording, undue weight and the like. Otherwise by simply putting it straight into the article with all the same issues as before will result in reverts once again as before, in which case you should abide by WP:BRD meaning if your challenge is contested, discuss it before reinserting so the issues can be sorted! Mabuska (talk) 22:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest version inserted into article

message: Remove non-free images :File:Ulster rugby badge.png and :File:Tyrone gaa.jpg being used in :Red Hand of Ulster#Examples. Non-free content is almost never allowed to be used in image galleries per :WP:NFCC#8  because such use is considered to be decorative, and the way these files are being used not an exception to :WP:NFG. Moreover, these files do not have the separate specific non-free use rationales required for this article by :WP:NFCC#10c and a valid rationale cannot be written for either image the way they are being used. So, they should be removed per :WP:NFCCE. Links to the stand-alone articles for each entity represented by the logo is more than sufficient per item 6 of :WP:NFC#UUI and there are more than enough examples using freely licensed Commons images that removing two non-free images would not be detrimental to the reader's understanding in any way. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:49, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Pinging locking admin  to help you. Mabuska (talk) 11:15, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spotted. They've been removed. Canterbury Tail talk 12:12, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request on 9 August 2017 

message: The file :File:Ulster GAA.svg was deleted from commons 9 August 2017 so should be removed as an example. KylieTastic (talk) 13:55, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Canterbury Tail talk 19:00, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request on 11 August 2017