Talk:JT LeRoy/Archive 2

message: To both sides of the debate: I'm not especially close to either camp, but I do believe the entire article is turning into a nightmare. In all the versions we've bandied about for the past several days, this issue isn't with whether there is a balance of information, but with how much importance to give to the controversial issue within the article. 83.249.212.92's version makes out the issue to be fundamental to the article, whereas Grilledcheese's (and others) takes the opposite approach of mentioning it only in passing.
Here's what I propose: POV issues concern not only a balance of information, but the tone of the wording and the weight that information carries within the overall article. I believe that the issue regarding his identity should be included in the article, and prominently, but with appropriate wording, i.e., avoiding the word hoax and choosing more neutral wording. Please see my proposed changes at User:Animated Cascade/jtleroy and let me know your opinions. I'm interested in hearing from both sides. The quotation from the article at NowPublic.com has been cut, as the article can't be considered a reliable source; it was posted by someone known only as hewhocannotbenamed on a quasi-news website that even calls itself "Beta 2." Please post your comments either at that draft's talk page or here in this section. It's my sincere hope that we can produce an article that is acceptable to both sides and avoids POV issues as well. --Animated Cascade talk 23:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Weighing in on POV

message: Thank you for all the time and attention you are giving to this discussion.
I disagree that "balance" of information isn't important.  Rhetorically speaking, If there is a debate about an issue and one side is permitted to select specific quotes that support that perspective and the other side is not given that opportunity, it does effect the weight that the information carries.  
For this reason, I disagree with carrying the Cooper quotes.  His opinion on the theory should carry no more weight than any other people weighing in.  If it were to remain, I would like to then see the Mary Gaitskill, Bruce Benderson and/or Shirley Manson quotes included.  NB:  I just read the reason for including Cooper in  the article.  Following this reasoning, it wold make sense to include Gaitskill and Benderson as they follow the same criteria, should the Cooper quote remain (with which I disagree),.  
Likewise, if the Washington Post articles is to be listed and quoted, perhaps a quote from a different media outlet that offers a different view could be offered.
Therefore, I put forth two possible edits that I would be comfortable with:
Version 1:
Author Stephen Beachy wrote in the October 10, 2005 issue of New York magazine suggesting that LeRoy and Speedie are both personas adopted by a woman named Laura Albert. [2] Beachy, like several commentators since 1999, speculates on parallels to the case of Anthony Godby Johnson, whom most persons familiar with the case are now convinced does not exist.
Writer Dennis Cooper was interviewed for Beachy's article and publicized it in advance as a "real whopper of a literary scandal" in an August 5, 2005 entry to his blog [3], adding that he originally "intended to defend [LeRoy] against what seemed like some rather outlandish theorizing, but, after several discussions with [Beachy] and a lot of thinking, I honestly don’t know what to believe anymore." Cooper writes in a further blog entry: "The progression from knowing and caring about a seemingly real 14 year old kid who claimed to have been horribly abused his whole life and was living on the streets and who claimed he was going to die of AIDS any minute and who could nonetheless and quite remarkably write well and honestly and sometimes beautifully about his life to watching this seemingly same kid transform into a fame and fashionability and money chasing alternative culture mini-Paris Hilton to discovering that the entire thing was probably a heartless and greedy if rather brilliantly carried out scam has not been fun at all."[4]
Conversely, Mary Gaitskill  said, in her Letter to the Editor of NY Magazine: 
To the Editors:
Considering that Stephen Beachy's article on JT Leroy is about lack of authenticity, it does have a certain small but strange feature: while I have in fact met and spoken with JT Leroy, I have never met or spoken with Stephen Beachy--and yet a reader of the article would reasonably conclude that I had. I wrote the description of my meeting with JT years ago and it was not meant to dispute his account of the same meeting, which was also written years ago. His account does not contradict mine, nor state that he spent lots of time staring into my eyes; one can see what a person's eyes look like, and notice that they have a pimple in, well, seconds.   Mary Gaitskill 
And writer Bruce Benderson wrote:
To the Editor:
As a person who has spent almost ten years speaking to J.T. Leroy, editing his manuscripts, comforting him on the phone while he was in hospital, having several short, concerned phone conversations with his therapist, reading his work for him in public, and showing his manuscripts to editors (and finally, to Joel Rose, which led to their publication), I cannot refute Stephen Beachy's allegations or theories for one simple and fundamental reason. No one can prove that he has written a book after it has been published. This would require a witness standing over the shoulder of the writer as he typed, and later verifying that the same words appeared in print. And thus, in my eyes, the futility of Mr. Beachy's research. 
I can, however, point out factual errors in Mr. Beachy's article (if he did indeed write it--for where is the proof?). It is not true, as Mr. Beachy says, that I never met J.T. Leroy in person. I have met him on four separate occasions, in public. The last time was at the Deitch Gallery, several days before I left for France to claim a literary prize. I had told J.T. about the good news two nights before on the phone. And at the gallery, J.T. signed and dedicated one of his books for me, with the words, "Knock 'em dead in France, Bruce." If this was actually an actor, and not J.T., how would he have known about my trip to France?   Bruce Benderson 
Speaking to the New York Post celebrity gossip column "Page Six", New York magazine spokeswoman Serena Torrey clarified Beachey's article: "Our piece never outright says that J.T. Leroy doesn't exist. It lays out a very compelling scenario and explores many of the questions surrounding this figure, but it never pretends to prove anything one way or another. We were very clear about that."[5]
The Washington Post's David Segal picked up on the story and wrote, "[LeRoy] appears to be one of the great literary hoaxes of our day, and it fooled a whole lot of people as well as the media, including The New York Times, which last year ran a lengthy profile of LeRoy."[6]
Hans Eisenbeis, in his newsletter The Rake wrote: "I don't know what all the fuss is about. In the business, it's called a pseudonym, and the fact that J.T. LeRoy has been writing and publishing under that name for more than a decade ought to be track record enough to establish his (or her) credentials... It's an interesting mystery, but seems to me sort of irrelevant to whether the work written by that person is publishable or not. "
The psychologist LeRoy refers to as evidence of his existence, Dr. Terrence Owens, refuses to confirm that he LeRoy is who he says on the grounds that "it would be unethical for him to comment." LeRoy contests that Beachy failed to contact the people who had spent significant time with LeRoy, such as his literary agent Ira Silverberg, who maintains that LeRoy is authentic.[7]
JT Leroy maintains that the above articles are ad hominem attacks by two magazines and a newspaper seeking to create publicity for themselves by using LeRoy's name.[8] Also, LeRoy's official website contains letters of support from various celebrities and associates, including Shirley Manson, Mary Gaitskill, Bruce Benderson and others, attesting to his authenticity.[9] He continues to assert that he is who he says.
Version 2:
Author Stephen Beachy wrote in the October 10, 2005 issue of New York magazine suggesting that LeRoy and Speedie are both personas adopted by a woman named Laura Albert. [2] Beachy, like several commentators since 1999, speculates on parallels to the case of Anthony Godby Johnson, whom most persons familiar with the case are now convinced does not exist.
Speaking to the New York Post celebrity gossip column "Page Six", New York magazine spokeswoman Serena Torrey clarified Beachey's article: "Our piece never outright says that J.T. Leroy doesn't exist. It lays out a very compelling scenario and explores many of the questions surrounding this figure, but it never pretends to prove anything one way or another. We were very clear about that."[5]
Differing opinions on LeRoys existence abound.  While The Washington Post's David Segal picked up the NY magazine story and wrote, "[LeRoy] appears to be one of the great literary hoaxes of our day, and it fooled a whole lot of people as well as the media, including The New York Times, which last year ran a lengthy profile of LeRoy."[6], Hans Eisenbeis, in his newsletter The Rake wrote: "I don't know what all the fuss is about. In the business, it's called a pseudonym, and the fact that J.T. LeRoy has been writing and publishing under that name for more than a decade ought to be track record enough to establish his (or her) credentials... It's an interesting mystery, but seems to me sort of irrelevant to whether the work written by that person is publishable or not. "
The psychologist LeRoy refers to as evidence of his existence, Dr. Terrence Owens, refuses to confirm that he LeRoy is who he says on the grounds that "it would be unethical for him to comment." LeRoy contests that Beachy failed to contact the people who had spent significant time with LeRoy, such as his literary agent Ira Silverberg, who maintains that LeRoy is authentic.[7]
JT Leroy maintains that the above articles are ad hominem attacks by two magazines and a newspaper seeking to create publicity for themselves by using LeRoy's name.[8] Also, LeRoy's official website contains letters of support from various celebrities, including Shirley Manson, Mary Gaitskill, Bruce Benderson and others, attesting to his authenticity.[9] He continues to assert that he is who he says. Grilled Cheese 24.60.177.101 01:02, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Response from Grilled Cheese