Talk:Ed Stelmach

message: just a note.. Ed Stelmach isn't premier as of Dec 3, 2006. The correct term is premier-Designate.
:Stelmach, is scheduled to be sworn in as the 13th Premier of Alberta on December 15, 2006. GoodDay 16:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not yet premier

message: One paragraph says he's a sitting MLA, and then the next paragraph says he resigned his seat in order to run for the premiership. Which is it? CBC also says he stepped down prior to running, but is his current status different from that? Anchoress 14:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He is still sitting in the Alberta Legislature, what he resigned was his cabinet position, as was required by Ralph Klein in order to run in the leadership race.  So yes, he is still a sitting MLA. (Grizzwald 15:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, chalk it up to me not reading carefully enough. :-) Anchoress 07:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current status? 

message: I am removing this section and providing a link to the cabinet article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dissonance cognitive (talk • contribs) 01:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cabinet

message: Should there be a section under Ed Stelmach for the criticism he's received.  Because he has received tons of non-positive feedback from many Alberta organizations, mainly arts groups.  This should be mentioned, because Stelmach is rapidly turning into one of the most unpopular premiers that Alberta has ever seen, at least in the Urban areas.
Climie.ca 19:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The criticism section should be sourced, or removed. --Tfundy 17:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I vote for "remove", in support of WP:NPOV policy. Stelmach is a living person, a politician who currently holds office, and has been premier for less than a year. Perhaps a section entitled "Controversies" could be started, along the lines of what appears in the article on Ralph Klein, as long as information provided there is well sourced and balanced, to address controversial issues that have arisen during his premiership, such as the AEUB scandal and the royalty review. However, I think it is far too soon to pass judgement on his "legacy", and for anyone to attempt to do so while he is still premier would make it very difficult for them to maintain a neutral point of view. Let's at least wait until after he's either won or lost at least one or two actual elections (yes, despite evidence to the contrary, there are other political parties in Alberta; the leader of the PCs doesn't get to stay premier indefinitely without eventually having to call a general election). I'm assuming he'll make it through at least one election cycle before they eat their young.Garth of the Forest 09:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  criticism 

message: I think the Premier deserves a suit and tie lead photo but since the official photo has been deleted I will add a Calgary Stampede shot until someone can get a non copyrighted photo that looks more official.Cszmurlo 18:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see User:Dissonance cognitive has deleted the Stampede photo.  I think that having it is preferable to having no photo at all, and I don't particularly agree that it "attempted to paint Stelmach as a country 'yocal' in western wear", but I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions.  Thoughts? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 17:17, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no evidence that this was photoshopped to make Stelmach look like anything. There's nothing wrong with western attire. Obviously Stelmach thinks it is appropriate attire. Who is Dis. Cog. to tell him that he's wrong to wear it? IF DC can provide a doifferent fair use photo, fine, but otherwise, the photo we had should return. Ground Zero | t 18:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: To take the other side, for a second, Stelmach probably didn't so much decide that it was appropriate attire as he felt forced into wearing it, just like every other politician who visits the Stampede.  I actually think Stelmach looks better in a cowboy hat than do most, though. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 19:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He is premier of the province, he can wear what he wants. The fact that this is suitable attire in Calgary, and that it is worn by the premier, shows that it is culturally relevant to Alberta. If anyone wants to replace it with a fair use photo of Stelmach wearing something else, they are free to do so. There is no basis for removing it and leaving no picture, though. Ground Zero | t 23:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I emailed Premier's office asking to take care about photo here at Wikipedia and/or provide me with some appropriate one... They have not contacted me back. Stanislav (talk) 21:36, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo 

message: While often tempting to do otherwise, it is important to adhere to WP:NPOV in these types of articles, particularly when referring to living persons. Can anyone provide a valid reference citing Jim Dinning describing himself as a Red Tory, or should that questionable description be removed from this article? In the interests of accuracy perhaps Red Herring would be a better turn of the tongue!??... ;) Garth of the Forest (talk) 05:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I endorse removal - the guy's famous (within Canadian politics) mostly for bringing fiscal conservatism to a level hitherto unheard of.  Just because he doesn't want to stone gays doesn't make him a Red Tory. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Refraining from partisan language in political articles

message: I've been working on a rewrite of the article here.  While it's not complete (as I write this there are a couple of controversy headings with no content in them, and I still need to add a bunch of references) I think it's a better base than the current article.  Do others agree?  I'd rather stay away from specific discussion of elements of my rewrite - those can be edited mercilessly if and when we decide to drop the rewrite into the article.  I just want to know whether you agree with me that we'd be better off working from my rewrite than from what's here now.  Thoughts? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 09:53, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Having heard nothing, I've opted for boldness and inserted my rewrite. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 15:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: I have changed the wording to that last section. Mr. Stelmach did not blame volunteers, he was part of the organizing committee and blamed the other 3 leadership candidates suggesting he wasn't fully aware of what they were doing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.75.133 (talk) 19:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Financing 

message: With the rewrite, I think we're within striking distance of good article status (of course, I'm biased since it was my rewrite).  A couple of things that I think still need to happen are the following (please feel free to add more):
* sources need to be improved in a few sections, especially the leadership race one;
* we need to strike a better balance between positive and critical content, since the controversy section is currently somewhat longer than the policy initiatives section (although there's "positive" content in the former and critical content in the latter, so it may not be as bad as all that). Sarcasticidealist (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good article drive? 

message: Why was the information that he is of Ukrainian descent removed or if it wasn't there, why not?
:He's in :Category:Ukrainian Canadians (look at the very bottom of the article).  I'm not sure there's a need to make it more prominent than that, as we don't usually include politicians' ethnic origins in their articles unless it's particularly relevant.  Do you think it is for Stelmach? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 01:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough; go ahead and add it, if you like. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 03:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I know there are many of Albertans who call themselves Ukrainians, even though their ancestors moved here before Ukraine was a country, or even before Russia was renamed Soviet Union. Ukraine was still a region, and had its own culture, which was brought here in the immigration. There are many Ukrainians who have lived in the area for a hundred years, that I have no problem calling Ukrainian. 117Avenue (talk) 04:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ukrainian descent 

message: ;Some clarification on his origin. 
His grandparents moved to Canada not from Ukraine as no such state existed. Beside that, Ukraine is very broad geographical meaning comparing to the name of mentioned village which to the rest of confusion was not preserved due to numerous wars in the region. I think it is worth to mention that his ancestors left the Galician region of Austro-Hungary, near Lviv (Radekhiv Raion) and especially the fact that they left in 1898. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know there are many of Albertans who call themselves Ukrainians, even though their ancestors moved here before Ukraine was a country, or even before Russia was renamed Soviet Union. Ukraine was still a region, and had its own culture, which was brought here in the immigration. There are many Ukrainians who have lived in the area for a hundred years, that I have no problem calling Ukrainian. 117Avenue (talk) 04:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: The sources provided say nothing about any alleged "death threat".  Unless sources can be found that do, and unless they involve the Premier in any significant way, this section can't be included. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 20:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, those are helpful as a start.  I think the biggest issue now is that none of those demonstrate that there was any kind of controversy, that Tom Olsen received criticism, or that anybody accused Ed Stelmach of exploiting the issue for political advantage. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 01:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Can you cite any media coverage of the controversy? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 07:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: You couldn't post it on Wikipedia (since that would clearly violate are policy on use of non-free media), but if you can upload it elsewhere, I'll give it a listen.  Failing that, if you could transcribe the relevant bit, so I could see what kind of coverage this was, that would also work.  Has it not been covered anywhere in the print or internet media? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 09:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Hey - in case you hadn't noticed, I left that content in by merging it into the "Calgarian alienation" section, where I think it likely belongs. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 09:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I think it pretty clearly wasn't so much a threat of violence as it was a Calgary candidate responding to what was, at the time, very low popularity for the Premier in Calgary, so I put it in the Calgary alienation category.  If you think it belongs elsewhere, please do make that argument and we can look for a solution we both agree to. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 23:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Death" threat(s)? 

message: As it was referred to by local media at the time of the incident.
In a bizarre statement statement to a Calgary-Elbow constituent, PC candidate Brian Heninger tells one of his potential constituents, “I’d choke our premier.” The premier said that kind of enthusiasm is exactly what he wants in his MLAs. He would also later admit it was a campaign strategy. Brian Heninger would go on to lose Ralph Klein’s former riding in the Calgary-Elbow by-election. 
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2007/06/10/4250096.html
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=ca8ea762-7411-431c-8eaf-e62115013842&k=64362
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070613_100103_9844
:Hey - in case you hadn't noticed, I left that content in by merging it into the "Calgarian alienation" section, where I think it likely belongs. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 09:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it pretty clearly wasn't so much a threat of violence as it was a Calgary candidate responding to what was, at the time, very low popularity for the Premier in Calgary, so I put it in the Calgary alienation category.  If you think it belongs elsewhere, please do make that argument and we can look for a solution we both agree to. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 23:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Elbow Choke

message: I've removed mention of this, since the sources cited didn't make any mention of Ed Stelmach or the Alberta government, and certainly didn't say anything about it being taxpayer-funded. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 23:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuclear plant 

message: I've reorganized the article and rewritten sections to make it better conform to WP:BLP, which frowns on "criticism and controversy" sections and their ilk being segmented out.  Except as noted above, I don't believe I've removed any content while doing so.  I think that a few sections - "Financing", "Pay increases", and "Top doctors quit" - are still in major need of a WP:NPOV rewrite, but I'm going to bed.  Hopefully I'll get to those tomorrow. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 07:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the campaign promise to stem the flow of raw bitumen to the United States and then opening 3 pipelines to do the exact opposite definitely needs to be left up. As I pointed out, under NAFTA laws, because Stelmach opened the door, it can never be shut. To most urban Albertans, this will be the defining move of any "legacy" he leaves for the province. - Brian  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.75.133 (talk) 22:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is a tertiary source which means, among other things, that we try to avoid independent judgments of what is important in favour of broader consensus about what's important.  You evidently think that the export of bitumen is the most important aspect of Stelmach's policies.  Other people might think it's his "no brakes" policy towards the development of the tarsands.  Others might think it's the elimination of health care premiums, for all I know.  Because there's no easy way to resolve disagreements like this, we turn to what external sources have chosen to cover.  I think that the aspect of Stelmach's policies that have received the most coverage are those related to energy and the environment (I initially had these sections separated, but in Alberta they're so closely tied that it didn't seem practical to continue doing so), so I put these at the top.  This category includes the bitumen export issue, so in a way it is right at the top of the section on Stelmach as Premier, just not with its own section.  I think this is the most reasonable resolution.  If you don't agree, I'd be quite open to bringing in a third opinion, either via the third opinion mechanism (which has the advantage that we can be sure that we'll get an uninvolved party, and the disadvantage that the uninvolved party probably won't know anything about Ed Stelmach or Alberta politics), or by asking for feedback from one of Wikipedia's regular editors on Canadian politics (off the top of my head, I'd suggest any of User:Ground Zero, User:CJCurrie, User:Reginald Perrin, User:Bearcat, or User:GreenJoe, but there are almost certainly others). Sarcasticidealist (talk) 23:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganization 

message: Vandalism is rampant with this article.  I just read that Ed was a liberal in the article and by the time I got in to edit the reference back to Progressive Conservative, somebody had already beaten me to the deed.   Thank you very much.  Regards Nmac-YK (talk) 01:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's because it's on the front page right now; articles on the front page as today's featured article are always pretty heavily vandalized, but consensus is not to protect them except in truly extreme cases (and in fairness we have seen some productive edits by I.P.s since the article went live: ). Sarcasticidealist (talk) 01:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Where was Stelmach born? The infobox says Lamont, while the lead and background say on a farm, which I thought was in Lamont County near Andrew, and none of these statements are referenced. There is currently a discussion at Talk:Lamont, Alberta#Notable residents for which of the three municipalities he should be included as a notable resident. 117Avenue (talk) 19:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the Village of Zavyche, doesn't appear to exist. A Google search only produces Stelmach related pages, and a search on the Belarusian, English, Russian, and Ukrainian Wikipedias doesn't produce anything. 117Avenue (talk) 00:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth 

message: I do not think this article can be considered well-researched or comprehensive due to the fact it has not been updated sufficiently since promotion and does not incorporate scholarly/retrospective sources such as this one. (t · c) buidhe 05:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAR needed