Talk:Carbine

message: There usually is a definition of the term that the page is named for at the beginning of every page. As this one does not have a definition, and rather jumps straight into historical background, I found the page to be less useful. It took too much time to find a basic answer.
Someone with firearms knowledge please insert a two sentance or so definition of the term in the beginning of the page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.225.54.173 (talk) 18:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. ¿What exactly is a “carbine”? I could call an M-2 a carbine, but that doesn’t (nearly) make it so. What’s really needed is a definition- “A Carbine is a rifle of less than XX inches (YYmm) that fires a standard intermediate rifle round (5.0MM or larger).” 65.100.56.249 (talk) 18:12, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition Needed

message: The Sterling wasn't called a carbine. It was called a machine carbine, which is or was the British word for an SMG AllStarZ 00:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Another class of carbine is a semi-automatic version of a submachine gun"...so wouldn't "machine carbine" minus the "machine" part leave you with just a "carbine"?  Granted, these would have been illegal in the UK for quite a while, but they are available on and off in parts of the US, depending on various state and federal legislation, and assorted executive orders banning import.  scot 02:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sterling

message: I was hoping to find out why a carbine is called a carbine. there appears to be plenty of information as to what a carbine is but none on the origin of the name, in fact to quote the Encyclopedia Britannica :
 'The word, the source of which is obscure, seems to have originated in the late or mid-16th century.'
Can anyone shed any light on this apparently unknown term? Or perhaps update the article for other people trying to work this one out?
Tim.
:http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=carbine and http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/Ca/Carbine.html have divergent etymologies, and http://personal.monm.edu/JRIVERS/carabiner.htm traces the term forward to "carabiner".  scot 22:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we can shed some light, if certain Albanian users are not objecting (see carabinier discussion). The rifle is named after the soldiers, not the other way around. The soldiers "carabins" in 16th c. France were mercenaries from Greece and other parts of the Balkans. The word "carabin" literally means "seaman" in medieval Greek and comes from the Greek word "caravi" (boat, ship), since these soldiers were also seamen and were transported by ships (The "Marines" of that time). Reference: Sathas K. (1885) Greek stratiotai in the West and the revival of Greek tactics, in "Estia", vol. 19, No 492, p. 371, in Greek language.--Euzen (talk) 19:15, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Euzen please don't use outdated Greek authors that weren't even scholars.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 09:02, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

text:  See my comments on Talk:Carabinier. Sathas' hypothesis is not reflected in modern sources and appears to be implausible and/or outdated. There are several other, competing etymologies. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Outdated" eh? Then give us the "modern" etymology. Especially the Albanian one.--Euzen (talk) 18:04, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Carbine? 

message: I don't see how the Browning Hi-Power is a carbine, so I'm commenting out the picture for now. --RavenStorm 01:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pointed out in the text.  Many Hi-Powers were, like that one, made with provisions for a detachable stock, which would turn it into a carbine--ditto for the Luger, Mauser Broomhandle, and a number of other military pistols.  Even a number of revovlers dating back to the black powder era were available with detatchable stocks.  If you attach a stock, it's no longer a pistol, and it's shorter than a rifle, so it becomes a carbine.  scot 14:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. --RavenStorm 16:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a problem--I also altered the caption for the image to make it a bit more clear why a picture of what is typically considered a pistol is in the middle of a carbine article.  scot 17:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Browning Hi-Power a carbine? 

message: In the "Contemporary military forces" section, there's a paragraph that's completely devoted to the designated marksman concept....and I don't think that should be there. It veers way too far off-topic, better to cut and paste the paragraph to the designated marksman article or just delete it outright —Masterblooregard (talk) 01:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Designated marksman 

message: I know there's a desire to keep the picture selections diverse, but would it not be better to either find an image much more illustrative of the size differences between the two Steyrs or replace it with a pair of weapons where the size difference is much more clear like the M-4/M-16?67.142.178.25 (talk) 06:58, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steyr images? 

message: "Many carbines are shortened versions of full rifles, firing the same ammunition at a lower velocity due to a shorter barrel length."
This doesn’t make any sense. The same ammunition is going to have the same velocity (even muzzle velocity) because the shortened barrel isn’t enough to prevent the bullet from reaching maximum velocity by the end of the barrel.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.50.255.30 (talk) 20:28, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slower ammunition? 

message: Hey everybody, we need references, the more, the better. This article is woefully light on inline citations and just screams of WP:OR. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 01:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: "They are typically issued to high-mobility troops such as special-operations soldiers and paratroopers, as well as to mounted, supply, or other non-infantry personnel whose roles do not require full-sized rifles."
I think the link between shorter barrel length and high-mobility should be made more explicitly, and especially why some roles *require* full-sized rifles should be explained, and the distinction between roles where carbines are used and long rifles.  I think this intro paragraph is explaining the tradeoffs between accuracy and mobility, but also assuming the reader already knows about them?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.143.141.227 (talk) 04:16, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  mobility 

message: I've moved this text from the article. It doesn't provide the average reader with any useful information. It might be better suited to an article specializing in weapons of the American Civil War. Rezin (talk) 03:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Civil War text 

message: *Larger than a submachine gun, [carbines] are harder to maneuver in tight encounters where superior range and stopping power at distance are not great considerations. Firing the same ammunition as rifles gives carbines the advantage of standardization over those personal defense weapons (PDWs) that require proprietary cartridges.
*A submachine gun (SMG) is an air-cooled, magazine-fed, automatic carbine designed to fire pistol cartridges.  Submachine gun
*A personal defense weapon (PDW) is a compact select-fire firearm similar in most respects to a submachine gun. Most PDWs fire a small caliber, high velocity bottleneck cartridge, resembling a small or short rifle round. This gives the PDW better range, accuracy and armor-penetrating capability than submachine guns, which fire pistol-caliber cartridges. The class of weapon as it exists today evolved as a hybrid between a submachine gun and a carbine, retaining the compact size and ammunition capacity of the former while adding the power, accuracy and penetration of the latter. Personal defense weapon
It sounds like both SMGs and PDWs are types of carbines, while the text in this article (top) tries to contrast carbines with them. "Carbine" really just refers to the length of the barrel so they can be automatic, semi-automatic, or even single shot, and can fire any type of bullet cartridge (as opposed to a shotgun). Does that sound right? Rezin (talk) 22:29, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carbines vs Submachine guns vs PDWs 

message: Carbine Conversion Units (CCU) for semi-automatic pistols do exist these days - Why not to have a notion of them in PCC section?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.163.159.72 (talk) 08:10, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  CCU 

message: Some of the information on early carbines and their use is badly phrased or just plain wrong. I will attempt to correct and expand this section. For example, early mounted-users of long-guns (as opposed to pistols) were petronells and harquebusiers (16th-17th centuries). These, and later cavalry, were given shorter-barrelled firearms because they could be loaded on horseback. They were fired from horseback, early dragoons carried full-sized muskets precisely because they dismounted to fire, other mounted troops of the time were expected to be able to shoot while mounted. French cavalry of the 17th century were expected to give a volley of carbine fire just  before closing on the enemy with the sword when charging. At the time of the Napoleonic wars cavalrymen could not dismount in action without a direct order from an officer, thus the majority of cavalry of this period did not act as mounted infantry. By c. 1700 virtually all cavalry had abandoned the use of carbine fire in the charge, but mounted carbine fire was still employed by skirmishers. Indeed only the very heaviest cavalry, cuirassiers etc., were sometimes exempted from carrying carbines, except for some men in each troop for guard duties, precisely because they would not be called upon to engage in skirmishing. Even so, carbine fire was still used in larger-scale clashes in the Napoleonic era. At the Battle of Sahagun in the Peninsular War, two regiments of French cavalry tried to halt a charge of British Hussars with mounted carbine fire; it failed and the French were routed, but it was employed. Urselius (talk) 12:30, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early carbines 

message: Please Jku456 (talk) 17:48, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If the section now labeled "Pistol-caliber carbine" gets large, it can be moved to a new, separate article.  Showing multiple sources using this specific term repeatedly, as a distinct subject, would help.  --A D Monroe III(talk)  02:20, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please create a separate page for Pistol-caliber carbine 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

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message: "It soon became standard issue in Soviet nations, although many of the nations with export Kalashnikovs retained the larger 7.62×39mm round."
Would it make more sense if it said, "that export Kalashnikovs"? "with imported Kalashnikovs"?
Not sure what is trying to be said here.
"Also, carbines are harder to maneuver in tight encounters where superior range and stopping power at distance are not great considerations."
Wouldn't carbines be easier to maneuver in tight encounters? Especially since later on,
"The smaller size and relative lighter weight of carbines makes them easier to handle in close-quarter situations such as urban engagements, when deploying from military vehicles, or in any situation where space is confined." Crowless (talk) 05:16, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost in Translation?