Talk:Bo Xilai

message: "Known for his good looks, articulate speech, open-minded work ethic, and a generally liberal outlook, Bo's phenomenal rise from a municipal official to the Central government has been of great media attention and has since elevated his status to that of a political star. The archetype of a politician Bo presents is seldom seen with a generally serious and conservative leadership in Beijing. He has a reputation of a Kennedy-esque figure, his charisma known to media from the Mainland, Hong Kong, and even abroad."
It is unsourced, and seems irrelevant. Thoughts?
Kunoichi 4 (talk) 14:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of this is now sourced, but I would really like to know where the author of this paragraph got the rest of this information. It is consistent with how Bo is often portrayed publicly. Noting Bo's public persona is important because it relates to his relationship with the public, the media, and other senior members of the CCP.Ferox Seneca (talk) 02:30, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of Objectiveness in Language?

message: Highly notable: The High Price of Diplomacy With China--Asdfg12345 01:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bo's role in the [[persecution of Falun Gong]]

message: Recent featured on BBC News showing corruption and how a modest politburo member could afford to send his son to Oxford University. Plus, who wrote that he was expelled? The links are:
http://search.tianya.cn/shareview.jsp?id=5f0c3a973d5bb366f3856f05a78fa0ac
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/05/oxford-star-bo-guagua-scoops-top-award-in-britain/
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/china/bo-xilai/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/jamesreynolds/2009/06/conflict_of_party_and_private.html#comments
Im not sure how to fit them in, sorry guys --CorrectlyContentious 17:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I added the "CN" Tag...I wanna know if he was really expelled also. The links above are not RS. Most of them are saying things like "I heard it from a friend" or "My friend who is at Oxford" or "Blah blah blah told me". Nah, doesn't work like that. TheAsianGURU (talk) 22:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  His Son, 

message: Rumors are swirling that Bo has offered to resign his Politburo position in light of the Wang Lijun scandal. This is still hearsay at this point, but it may develop quickly.  We should keep an eye on it.Homunculus (duihua) 02:54, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as how the New York Times had already reported this, it doesn't really matter whether this is hearsay or factual... verifiability takes precedence. Colipon+(Talk) 04:15, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that, but unless I'm missing something, the NYTimes piece doesn't make it clear which position he offered to resign from (Chongqing party chief or Politburo member).Homunculus (duihua) 04:27, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resignation from Politburo? 

message: It's good to see this page getting more attention of late, though there's still quite a bit that can be improved upon.  When I have more time I'd like to make some more substantive proposals and/or edits, but in the interim,  I'd like to propose abandoning referenced to the political "right."  Bo may represent the new left, but the opposite of the new left is not the right.  Moreover, use of these terms is profoundly confusing to Western audiences uninitiated in Chinese politics. Most readers will invariably fail to understand how left=conservative in China, or that the opposite of the left are the progressives and would-be reformers.Homunculus (duihua) 06:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Rather than redact references to the 'right' because people might not understand it, wouldn't the better approach be to link it to the relevant articles (or to create relevant articles) that would explain this distinction? Also, with a bit of digging one finds that the Chinese political spectrum is really not all that different from that of elsewhere in the world - Left means generally means socialism, redistribution of wealth, high public spending, high taxation, Right means market-economics, less government regulations, lower taxation, low public spending. It just happens that China's 'status quo' was the statist 'left' model, and thus to maintain the status quo is to be 'conservative'. Colipon+(Talk) 22:53, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

text: You are absolutely right that this should not be portrayed as solely a left-right divide, but it has been portrayed as such by numerous Chinese and foreign media sources - particularly the war of words between Wang Yang and Bo Xilai. I don't think the left-right issue should be the focus at any point in the article, but it should be mentioned in passing. Colipon+(Talk) 16:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How about we create a section titled something like "political alignment," where Bo's positions, ideology, and factional affiliations can be summarized.Homunculus (duihua) 22:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is the approach that I wanted to take as well - somewhat akin to a "political positions" portion of a US politician - it would mean, however, a drastic overhaul of the section currently called "political positions and ambitions". We need to maintain some sort of chronological order in the lead-up of the Wang Lijun scandal. Colipon+(Talk) 23:29, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Hi Hom, your section on Bo's political views are very well-written! Great work! I do think, however, that his 'leftist' credentials need a bit more elaboration. In particular his 'cake' theory and his opposition to Wang Yang (which is very well-sourced) should be reinserted into that section. Also, I hope you don't mind moving that section to the bottom of the page as is the template on most other 'politician' articles. Colipon+(Talk) 01:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Cake is undeniably important.  I don't know what the structure of the article should be.  I'll defer to your judgement for now.Homunculus (duihua) 01:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm very happy with where the article has been going with our collaboration. I think we can take it to GA, even. Colipon+(Talk) 03:36, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course we should make the article as good as possible, but I'm not sure about the viability of achieving GA status right now, given how fast the situation is evolving.  If we were to accomplish this, we would need to keep close watch of developments to ensure it remains up-to-date and of a high quality. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't aim for GA.  Just that we need not rush into it, lest we succumb to recentism.  Speaking of evolving stories, it appears there is now a concerted crackdown on Maoist revivalism, and new revelations about the catalysts for the Wang Lijun defection attempt. Homunculus (duihua) 04:39, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Thank you for looking those over. Actually, those specific paragraphs were written a long time ago, prior to the proliferation of sourcing policies on WP. I agree perhaps a more neutral tone is necessary. I have added a source to that section - a Chinese language article from 2005. It was an admittedly sympathetic piece, but there's little else out there that goes into detail about Bo's tenure as Commerce Minister. Colipon+(Talk) 16:46, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick suggestion: we may want to consider including a section that deals specifically with Bo's public image, and the media accounts of his character and style. His personality is among his main sources of notability, after all. Homunculus (duihua) 22:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  March 2012  

message: Currently a passage from the "organized crime" section reads: 
While ordinarily I trust Willy Lam's analysis, and I authored the passage in question myself, this case may require further corroboration, given recent developments, which raise sufficient doubts about how 'in line' Bo was with the central leadership. It would seem that Bo's 'go-at-it-alone' attitude was part of what got him in so much trouble, and would seemingly disprove the idea that Hu was calling the shots from Beijing. The original passage from Willy Lam (via Jamestown Foundation) is as follows:
:Hong Kong papers have reported that the  Chongqing “anti-triad tornado” was made possible only after President Hu Jintao had personally given approval  to the unprecedented crackdown. Bo indirectly conﬁrmed  this by saying late last month that the “anti-triad operation was handled by the party central leadership” and that it was “not a case of Chongqing trying to set a sensational example” (Guangzhou Daily, October 17; China News Service, October 29; Chongqing Daily, October 29). While Bo seems to be striking a delicate balance between praising Beijing’s leadership on the one hand and claiming credit for having done the right thing on the other, neither the CCP authorities nor the gung-ho regional “warlord” has been able to reassure the nation about the viability of China’s legal apparatus.
Any opinions on how to best represent this passage would be welcome. Colipon+(Talk) 19:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep in mind that in his recent grand defense Bo said that it wasn't just him and his Chongqing boys involved, but all sorts of other judicial and law enforcement apparatuses, including the central government's politico-legal committee etc. etc. He was spreading the responsibility. Truth factor unknown, but it may be a bit early to discount this central-involvement thesis entirely. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 20:04, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bo Xilai & Hu Jintao 

message: I think the article is really coming together with the help of multiple editors. There are just a few more things to consider that still lack coverage here - significant projects/achievements of Bo. First is the Chongqing taxi drivers strike. It happened in 2008, just a year after Bo took over as party chief, and a large number of articles have been written about it in the Chinese media (English language coverage here). In fact, if we had more resources, it could very well be an article in its own right. The second is the rural rights campaign, which is part of the reason Bo is so popular in Chongqing. He gave residents subsidized housing, education, and health care privileges once only accessible to 'urban' residents. Finally, his time in Dalian needs to be given more due weight. Sources could be hard to locate for that, though. If we can achieve these things I forsee this becoming a 'good article' candidate, and the most comprehensive resource on learning about Bo Xilai for general readers and Chinese politics enthusiasts alike. Colipon+(Talk) 17:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll add to the to-do list.  The Dalian section should include a discussion of his establishment of free trade zones and other 'special favors' he procured for the city. There should be a section about his media and public image.  The "Chongqing model" should have a section that presents it as a holistic approach to resolving a variety of social, moral, political and economic needs facing China, with a brief discussion of why that was potentially challenging to the party brass in Beijing.Homunculus (duihua) 23:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And another: I suggest that the page should have a section dedicated to discussing the significance of Bo, and of his ouster from Chongqing.   And to that end, this article from Foreign Policy is quite excellent. It's mostly focused on Wen Jiabao, but speaks to the overall significance of the factional divisions. It is the most detailed and evocative account I've seen of Bo's experiences during the Cultural Revolution, though some of these details focus more broadly on the Red Guards at the No. 4 High School, and don't explicitly implicate Bo. Homunculus (duihua) 03:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I read that article, and was about to do an injection of content on the Wen Jiabao article. Just lacking the time to do this right now. Perhaps we can just add a paragraph into the "political alignment" section? Colipon+(Talk) 04:51, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

text: I personally don't mind the "Long Live Red Terror" line, but I am wondering if this really has that great of impact on Bo's life per se or if it is just trivia for No. 4 Middle School. After all, we don't know if Bo himself actually took part in the 'cafeteria re-branding' campaign. Colipon+(Talk) 15:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, I had that concern too. A couple sources I've read have said that Bo was active in that particular red guard faction, but yes, it doesn't directly implicate him, and might be a bit sensational. Also, I added a bit on the 16th party congress. Let me know your thoughts.Homunculus (duihua) 15:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Hom, I went through and did some more research and dissecting, resulting in the current revision. I tried to frame things in a greater context. Please take a look to see if it is satisfactory. Other editors are also welcome to contribute. Colipon+(Talk) 03:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Will take a look soon. I was sort of hoping to take a couple days to tend to real life things, but just when I get out...well, you know how it goes.Homunculus (duihua) 05:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still missing - Taxi strike, rural rights, Dalian 

message: I have just some small formatting notes:
*I would suggest that we stick to the non-slanted quotation marks, since they are recommended at WP's Manual of Style, and they are rendered best on mobile devices, different browsers, OSs, etc. 
*Please try to use the "Cite" tool in the editor to compile references to ensure formatting consistency. Or we can just invite a gnome to come and clean up the refs once we put it up for a GA or FA candidate. 
Colipon+(Talk) 03:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small notes 

message: Um, did this just pass as a good article?  Is there an assessment page? I was expecting there would be a period of review and feedback, and was actually thinking of reworking a section or two to reflect more recent coverage (the section on Bo's downfall, in particular, had been written as events evolved, and could benefit from renewed attention).  I'll probably still revisit the downfall narrative, and also continue pondering a 'media/public image' section. But in the mean time, hazah for GA status. Homunculus (duihua) 21:10, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, apparently it was not properly reviewed.  More time to improve it, then.  I didn't want to say so,  but in its current state, I don't think it quite meets GA status. Maybe my standards are too high. I'm not sure. Homunculus (duihua) 03:20, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Good work! Do you read Chinese? while you're at it perhaps also look up some sources on the Taxi strike. Colipon+(Talk) 14:37, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You may want to hold your praise.  I'm still working on it, but once I'm done I suspect there will still be ample room for revision.  I can pull together some material from the taxi strike, sure. Homunculus (duihua) 02:59, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA - that was fast... 

message: Per above conversation, I've just expanded the section on Bo's career in Chongqing considerably.  Hopefully I didn't go overboard.  There is a small amount of material that was lost, and I'll paste it here for posterity.  Ideally this could go into a section on Bo's public image: 
:Wary of the potential for social chaos similar to that created during the Cultural Revolution, attributed partially to Mao's personality cult, the public images of modern Chinese leaders tend towards stoic reserve. In spite of Bo's popularity among the public, and the "fawning" attention of the international media, Western media described him as a "divisive figure, creating enemies by riding roughshod, at times, over the hierarchy of the party and by his unwavering support for Mr Jiang."
I didn't yet get around to the taxi strike, but I will.  I also think there's a still-pressing need to revise the section on Bo's downfall to tell a more complete and coherent narrative.  The significance of his suspension also needs to be addressed. There is much to do. Other editors should feel welcome to do what they will with these new additions, or to question my rationale for whatever. Homunculus (duihua) 03:57, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thank you for the work you've put into this article, its quality has noticeably improved over time. It is rather sad, the field of Chinese politics is rather specialized, and there are only a handful of users who edit in this field. Otherwise an event as big as this would have received more attention from editors, I'm sure. But then again, most "recent events" related articles are a mess. I think in retrospect the team here did a fairly good job of containing the 'recentism' on the article to a minimum. My only concern now really is article size... I feel like perhaps the Chongqing section is given too much weight... perhaps a "Chongqing Model" article is due? But, that is a lot of work. Anyway, as far as I can see now, I would not hesitate recommending this article to friends as the best comprehensive and neutral source on Bo's biography on the internet. This means GA (and perhaps even FA if we are ambitious) is not too far away, only if a user would show up to review the damn thing. Anyway, overall, great work! Colipon+(Talk) 04:58, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Do you also think it would be a good idea to merge sections on "public image" and "leadership style"? I feel like there would be some overlap between the two. Colipon+(Talk) 05:01, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think some of the material at least from leadership style would fit in within a discussion of public image.  I was thinking of working on that section this week, though I would also like to do an update to 'downfall,' perhaps dividing it into three parts: Wang Lijun fallout/incident, removal from posts, and aftermath. Or something like that. Sound good? Homunculus (duihua) 04:39, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I did some edits to the sections. Overall they are very well written and comprehensive. Again, I'm not sure about the abundance of so many quotations... they look very unencyclopedic, and are often too personal, so I will do my best to remove them without damaging the central message in the content. Colipon+(Talk) 18:44, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to Chongqing career 

message: I just wanted to follow-up on the passage: "It reportedly involved widespread arbitrary detention, reeducation-through-labor, as well as the use of torture to extract confessions." It is sourced to a Berkeley Law op-ed, which further interprets a Financial Times article. The original was "To carry out the campaign, the Financial Times says, “heavy use” was made of “measures that allow police to lock people away without trial,” presumably a reference to the use by the Chongqing public security bureau (PSB) of sentences to “re-education through labor” (RETL)." Here it would appear as though the author of the op-ed is speculating and interpreting rather than decisively asserting it as fact. Moreover, the author points out later on that "An unnamed legal activist quoted in the Financial Times report mentioned above appears to suggest that the damage done by RETL in Chongqing is not permanent. “It is an administrative measure and can easily be reversed through administrative mean.”" So in my view, the passage as it stands is an example of sensationalism, not to mention potential BLP violation since it is speculation, and should be removed from the article. I am not opposed to keeping references to "arbitrary detention"; the torture allegations need to be better-sourced, and while I do not doubt that Chongqing police forces tortured to extract confessions, I worry that we are attributing too much to Bo personally. Colipon+(Talk) 04:04, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, the Financial Times describes people being imprisoned without trial, and while it's safe to assume that's a reference to administrative sentencing to RTL, the op-ed it is a little speculative. The Washington Post (cited below) is an alternate source on the forced labor claim.  We might rephrase to something like ""It reportedly involved the misuse of the courts system, widespread arbitrary detention and reeducation-through-labor, and the alleged use of torture to extract confessions." I think these statements are abundantly supported by reliable sources. The allegations of torture are difficult to prove definitively, of course, which is why we can only say they are alleged or reported.  Here's a small selection:
* Washington Post "The thousands jailed in the campaign, also called “hard strike” in the Chinese media, included gang members, wealthy businessmen, police officers and local government officials. About 1,000 people were sentenced to forced labor, and dozens executed, many after hasty trials that ignored even rudimentary judicial procedures. Many have alleged that they were tortured while in custody and confessed under duress."
* National Interest: "...assorted reports now contend the anti-gangster campaign [Wang] directed on Bo’s behalf included shakedowns of legitimate businessmen, jailing lawyers who tried to defend them and widespread use of arbitrary arrest and torture."
* Financial Times: "Tens of thousands of people were caught up in the campaign and at least a dozen were executed following hasty trials. From the start, this campaign was dogged by persistent allegations of arbitrary law enforcement, show trials, illegal asset seizures, torture and even murder."
* The Guardian:"The anti-gang campaign saw "crazy and massive detentions" of people who were mostly innocent, said Li. He was one of them. His client, alleged triad boss Gong Gangmo, said he confessed after more than a week of torture. But when Li used the testimony in Gong's defence, he too was arrested, accused of falsifying evidence and strapped into a "tiger chair" – a sleep-deprivation device – for three days and nights."
* Financial Times "His campaign against crime syndicates in Chongqing was arbitrary and brutal. It included swift executions and the use of torture."
Hope that helps. I'll add a couple of these references. Homunculus (duihua) 04:43, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Even without going into the articles and judging from those quotes alone, none of them mention RETL directly. The closest thing is the "forced labour" reference in the Washington Post. I would say the only recurring themes in these articles is that Bo's administration ran roughshod over normal judicial operating procedures, and that there was a lot of arbitrary detention. The torture allegations are notable, but they should be presented as allegations - since most of it is reported by individuals who report they had first-hand accounts. I'll do a couple of edits to see how that could be balanced, but I hope we can agree that RETL reference is a little tangential. Colipon+(Talk) 13:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 1,000 people being sent to forced labor is not tangential.  You can say "forced labor" instead of "reeducation-through-labor" if you want to cleave extremely closely to what the source said.Homunculus (duihua) 14:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a comprehensive re-editing of that section; I hope it is workable. Some recurring themes you read from sources include arbitrary detention, arrest of political opponents, and allegations of torture. I included all of these in the article tried to give more context. That said, after reading the sources I still do not see 'forced labour' being a significant part of the campaign (judging by the weight it is given by sources, even with the articles provided above alone) and thus chose not to give it space in the article. Colipon+(Talk) 17:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "re-education through labour" 

message: An IP user insists that Hu be known as "General Secretary" instead of "President". I would agree with him/her that "General Secretary" generally takes precedence over President in the Chinese political hierarchy (if the two were separate positions), however, since 1993 the practice has been that they are one in the same. As such the vast majority of media sources (including the New York Times and the Economist) refer to Hu as simply "President", regardless of context, perhaps even as a simple matter of style. I believe WP should do what reputable English-language sources are doing on this issue. Colipon+(Talk) 13:51, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this is a no-brainer. The idea of using GenSec is presumably to emphasize the Party-side and subtly detract from the credibility of the role. We should use "President" since it has become standard. Colipon, do you have any idea on how and why the translation morphed from Chairman to President? I've wondered about that. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 03:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The decision of whether to use General Secretary or President to refer to the Chinese heads of state need not be absolute. I think it depends on the context. When referring to the individual's function as head of the party, use General Secretary.  If intended to emphasize the civilian role as head of state, use president. Homunculus (duihua) 04:25, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

text: The last CCP Chairman was Hua Guofeng; Deng Xiaoping (et al) decided to move away from the legacy of strongman rule, and toward a more collective decisionmaking. Prior to that, the General Secretary (sometimes Secretary General) was the Politburo Secretariat executive in charge of managing day-to-day party affairs. Deng himself held the job prior to the GPCR, and Hu Yaobang in the late 1970s.DOR (HK) (talk) 08:45, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree with Hom that using President and GenSec depends on the context. In this article, for example, it is the President who nominates the Premier and cabinet posts, not the GenSec, so Bo's appointment as Commerce Minister is by virtue of Hu's position as President, not GenSec. However, his Politburo appointment may well refer to Hu as GenSec. TheSound, the origins of the term "President" comes from a 'modernization' of Chinese politics in the Deng era - it was a conscious decision (much like Gorbachev's ascension to the same position in the USSR) to make things more in line with the rest of the world and to have a 'head of state' equivalent to conduct ceremonial functions, especially when receiving dignitaries. During the Cultural Revolution there was no head of state, period. course, the term "President" is simply a translation - the Chinese term remains "Chairman". Colipon+(Talk) 13:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: But we had a "Chairman Mao." Why not "Chairman Hu"? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 14:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

text: I, for one, am glad that for once we do not have to discuss Falun Gong :). Anyway, "Chairman" in "Chairman Mao" describes his position as "Chairman of the Communist party" and not Chairman of China - though he was also Chairman of China until he relinquished that position to Liu Shaoqi after the failed Great Leap Forward. But we are now really digressing. Colipon+(Talk) 16:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hu as General Secretary 

message: I placed back content about international lawsuits against Bo that was well-sourced, relevant, and neutrally presented and that has been argued about a great deal previously, whereupon the ultimate decision was to keep the content in the article. I see no change in the consensus, such as it is. The content has been restored. If there is disagreement, let us discuss. TheSoundAndTheFury (talk) 22:50, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert - Bo's lawsuit content.  

message: In the section "Provincial Governor" there is a reference to someone named Wen Shizhen. But the link provided goes to a Wen Shizhen who died in 1951, while the Wen Shizhen in the article must have been alive in the 2000s. There does not appear to be any other article titled "Wen Shizhen" on Wikipedia. Should the link be removed? Thanks. Tryefor (talk) 00:16, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  mistaken link? 

message: DaltonCastle I recently reverted one of your edits that didn't seem properly sourced. Your next edit is walking a fine line with WP:NPOV I don't want to editwar with you at all so I thought I'd talk to you here. Could you please discuss your last two edits and the reasoning behind them? Simonm223 (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the civility.  I want to avoid edit wars too.  If this is a page you've been editing for a while I'll leave you as the authority.  Its just a well documented instance that has been big in Chinese-language media.  I enjoy expanding pages to account for all details on political pages.  If this walks a fine line with NPOV then by all means, feel free to work with it.  Im simply taking what I find in credible, non-biased as possible news sources, and adding it to pages.DaltonCastle (talk) 20:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: With articles like Bo Xilai, because of the extent and complexity of the controversy, we often keep the language simple, clear and factual. It helps to avoid inserting any WP:NPOV into the article. I don't suspect you of anything like that, of course, just making sure you understand. Thank you for contributing.Simonm223 (talk) 20:40, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paging DaltonCastle 

message: In this edit, I changed the intro, which now includes 
:Bo's dismissal, which "many observers believe [was because he] threatened Mr Xi’s future grip on power",...
is based on a quote from this Economist article
:Eight months before Mr Xi took over, a fellow member of the ruling Politburo, Bo Xilai, was purged; ostensibly for corruption and abuse of power but also, many observers believe, because he threatened Mr Xi’s future grip on power. The mopping up continues. Mr Xi is now trying to eradicate the influence of Mr Bo’s powerful patron, Zhou Yongkang, who was the country’s security chief until he retired in 2012.
72.244.204.182 (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added 

message: Can the editor responsible for this edit please explain what it means that the cited, verifiable information counts as "Chinese whispers"? TheSoundAndTheFury (talk) 23:27, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Careful of Chinese whispers"? 

message: I see no reason why the number of other officials also indicted for Genocide with Bo shouldn't be included in this article.
I don't think an adequate reason has been given for the deletion of a paragraph in this edit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bo_Xilai&diff=654231131&oldid=654043151
20:07, 30 March 2015‎ Simonm223. Aaabbb11 (talk) 04:53, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: wasn't the news reported on the major news wires and in the outlets of those countries? the behavior that they are accused of is presumably notable. if there are other sources which make the legally-oriented argument of ohconfucius, then lets include that too. in the meantime there seems little cause to suppress or exclude this information from the articles. the above arguments are interesting but they do not countermand the notability of being indicted for genocide by the judge of a sovereign state. not everyone can claim that dubious distinction, and i think it would be remiss to prevent it from being part of the record, which it is.Happy  monsoon day  15:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

text: I think you're being very hasty reverting as it's apparent that there isn't consensus about what should be there. OhConfucius and I both have misgivings about that inclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 16:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

text: I did address the substance of the issue. Specifically that it is an irrelevant piece of trivia about a living person. And WP:BLP discourages this sort of trivia, especially in cases where doing so involves spreading allegations of genocide. Bo Xilai is a corrupt politician, he has tried to cover up murders. He's done all kinds of awful things. But he didn't steal organs from the Falun Gong. Simonm223 (talk) 14:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Wu_Guanzheng for additional clarification. Exactly the same justification applies here Even awful people can be victims. Simonm223 (talk) 14:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

text: *Yes, note that not just for BXL, Wu Guanzheng, the same editor placed similar assertions based on the Falun Gong court cases in the biographies of the others (Jiang Zemin, Jia Qinglin, Luo Gan). -- Ohc ¡digame! 06:30, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: just fwiw, i know that ohconfucius is in hot water for his flg editing, but this particular edit seems to me warranted and sensible. i'm not sure that the falun gong suit appear in the lede, or in that glib form. whether bo's other anti-flg activities should be so mentioned is another matter. that would depend on sourcing etc. in any case, this is a preemptive comment agreeing with moderating the emphasis of that info in the lead.Happy  monsoon day  02:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Five indicted for genocide 

message: I think at the last sentence in the lead section should be in the first paragraph.
"On 22 September 2013, Bo was found guilty of corruption, stripped of all his assets, and sentenced to life imprisonment." Aaabbb11 (talk) 01:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: anyone object to my adding something of a marxian reading to this saga - including the downfall and the chongqing model? I'm talking about the commentaries of Lin Chun, Zhao Yuezhi, Wang Hui, mainly, regarding theories of neoliberal conspiracy on Bo's downfall and what they consider the unfulfilled promise of the CQ model.Happy  monsoon day 19:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well this certainly sounds very interesting so I'd say be bold. Colipon+(Talk) 12:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: hah! I can't tell if you're being somewhat tongue-in-cheek - but anyway, they are published in what I believe count as reliable sources (Monthly Review?) so let me collect them together a bit and make a section for that. it's just about getting this perspective on the record really. (though at the same time, there are actual economists who don't think the CQ model was really any different than a hypertrophied version of 'the China model' - probably would be good to has that out a little too.)Happy  monsoon day 16:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be most interested to see someone analyze Bo's policies in Chongqing and Xi's current policies in China as a whole. Colipon+(Talk) 20:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marxist reading? 

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message: Epoch Times is not a reliable source. DOR (HK) (talk) 13:29, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Epoch Times certainly has its angle, but then again so does the Xinhua News Agency, Fox News, and the SCMP, all of which are references in this entry.   Annacoluthon (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maoist party