Talk:United Kingdom/Archive 3

message: I think Cornwall and the Cornish merit being viewed as a constituent people and nation of the UK for the following reasons.
* Cornwall and the Cornish have had an identity distinct form the English for centuries as is evidenced by the existence of the Cornish language as a mother tongue up until the late 18th or early 19th century and the subsequent successful revival of said language in the 20thy century. The language exits also in our First, Familial and Place names.
* The Cornish had and arguably continue to have a perceived national identity other than English. I would refer you to Mark Stoyle recent book "West Britons, Cornish identities in the early modern period". Additionally on the UK census of 2001 and the recent local school census it was possible to record oneself as Cornish (as opposed to English). 
* Many treaty's and documents up until the 18th century made reference to there being a distinction between Anglia and Cornubia. Additionally maps of the Isles produced up until the 18th century often showed Cornwall as a distinct entity on a par with Wales, look for the maps of CORNWALL & WALES ("Cornewallia & Wallia") 1564 at this site Mercators Atlas by walking tree press. I am happy to provide further examples if required?
* Constitutionally the nature of Cornwall and its description of being a county of England are disputed see the following wiki pages for information: Cornish nationalist, Constitutional status of Cornwall. If correct these arguments would indicate a de jure status for Cornwall as a Duchy and a crown dependency not a county of England.
*I present the following link to support my points. Look for "The Cornish: A Neglected Nation?" by M Stoyle on this BBC site Bretagne 44 18/4/05
::, there was a point that could be considered 'the unification of England', the point which terminated in the Battle of Hastings. After that point none of the separate tribes could be considered as separate anymore, including the Cornish. Compare the separate districts of India, such as Punjab or Pradesh Nadir.  Another point is the Brick Wall test. If you built a brick wall and cut off any area of the UK, could it survive as a separate nation? I doubt Cornwall could, neither could Lincolnshire!!! Yes they were a nation, yes they are a distinct constituent part, but they are no longer separate - I should think Londoners own more of Cornwall than the Cornish do!!! Lincolnshire Poacher
:Yes IMHO Cornwall is a nation. But it has no recognition as such. For wikipedia unilaterally to give such a recognition would be expressing a POV. NPOV means we must reflect what is generally accepted, not reflect our views. Most people unfortunately don't acknowledge Cornwall as a nation so we cannot. If that changes then I will have the greatest pleasure in reflecting that recognition here. But as of 2005 we cannot. FearÉIREANN 22:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If Cornwall had a clear separate state or regional existence then it would warrant separate treatment. It doesn't legally so it does not warrant and cannot be given a special status on wikipedia. The existence of a question on a census or a separate linguistic identity is not enough to warrant it being treated like Scotland, Wales or even Northern Ireland. FearÉIREANN 19:11, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem not to understand the principles by which wikipedia, like every other encylopaedia, operates. Encylopaedicas are reflective, not creative. They reflect the generally accepted consensus and report it. Fact - there is no home rule state in the UK called Cornwall. Fact - The UK is made up of Great Britain (which is made up of England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland. Nowhere legally in the definition of the kingdom is there such an entity and a 'nation' called Cornwall. Maybe there should be, but the fact is there isn't. Encyclopaedias can only deal with facts. It has to deal with what is, not what perhaps should be. If you want to write to promote the concept of a Cornish nation, you should do it on websites whose raison d'etre facilitate that. But wikipedia, as an encyclopaedia, cannot. Doing so would be expressing a POV and that is something we cannot do. Please understand just what wikipedia is and what it isn't. You hit the nail on the head when you spoke about a "popular and an academic debate". If it is only at the debate stage then its outcome cannot be stated as fact. If tomorrow it was decided and accepted that there is a nation called Cornwall and it was given equal status with Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland then the article would have to reflect that.  But we cannot state a fact something that is simply still being debated and has no constitutional or legal status; not in an NPOV encyclopaedia. Please grasp what an encyclopaedia can and cannot do. FearÉIREANN 20:47, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cornwall]] Kernow Cornubia Cornewallia Cerny 

message: I am reverting the changes made by user Benbread on 15 March 2005. User Benbread, apparently, thought that the 2003 estimates were too old, and so he put some 2004 estimates from the CIA world factbook. Should it be reminded to all one more time that the CIA world factbook is not the Bible? It is actually known for making big mistakes. In the case of UK population, the CIA world factbook is wrong. The only credible estimates for the UK population come from the UK Office for National Statistics, and the latest estimates we have are for July 2003. In the next months we should get the July 2004 estimates. Computing UK population is a difficult process. There was already a discussion about this a few months ago on this discussion page. After the 2001 UK census, UK Statistics realized that their estimates were overestimated, that's why they had to downsize them and change their estimate methods. CIA world factbook is obviously not aware of that and still uses bogus estimates from the 1990s. So please don't change the estimates again to put the CIA world factbook figures. It's becoming weary to always have to revert misinformed edits. Hardouin 13:15, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The July 2004 population estimates are now here. . ONS England and Wales, GRO Scotland, NISRA N.Ireland zzuuzz (talk) 17:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK population number 

message: Quote: The term "Great" is used in opposition to "Little" Britain or Brittany in France (the '-ny' ending being diminutive).
The -ny of Brittany is no more a diminutive ending than the -ny of Tuscany or Germany! 
Compare Bretagne / Brittany with Gascogne / Gascony, etc. This -ny is no more than the English version of the Latin -ia ending (here applied to a root ending in -n) via French -gne. Yes, Brittany is Britannia Minor in Latin -- in contradistinction to Britannia (Major) -- but those who consciously talked up the idea of "Great Britain" in the 16th-17th centuries did not have Brittany on their minds - rather, a whole-island polity of "greater Britain". See The Isles: A History by Norman Davies. -- Picapica 22:50, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Little Britain 

message: Why is 'electronica' mentioned in this article? That is hardly a significant genre of music let alone a culture defining one.
This article needs major work--Josquius 19:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was the name before Irish independence. That article is about the UK during that time. DJ Clayworth 16:47, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electronica? 

message: In the politics section, the Queen is wearing the Order of Canada and is reigning as the Canadian monarch; this is, indeed, a picture from the Canadian Government. This is inappropriate, much like using US English in an article on the UK. Is there a better picture?
: I imagine that everyone agrees that it is inappropriate, yes.
: However, no, there is not a better picture that we have access to.
: Note: Any official portraits of the Queen from her coronation would be now PD were they under Crown Copyright (50 years); if you find one...
: James F. (talk) 10:12, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Queen of Canada? 

message: A user using various IPs has been redirecting this article to England. They have been warned over and over again, under their various IPs, to stop, including getting a final warning (test4) telling them that they would be blocked if they did the redirect again. It may be their first time using that IP but it is part of a series. It is a waste of time treating them each time as a new user. They are simply an old user IP-surfing. They know exactly what they are doing (and have been doing it here for days.) Block them the moment they try under a new IP. Their most recent IP has just been blocked. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 23:30, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  England redirect 

message: There is mention of tennis, football, rugby, and more besides, but not a single word on Motor Racing... that is really quite appalling.
: Write it yourself! Wikipedia is a collaborative effort so here's your chance to make a contribution - Adrian Pingstone 19:36, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motor Racing Heritage 

message: I need to see more pictures.I am doing a report on United Kingdom and I looked everywhere to find pictures and I just cant find them.I even looked on other sites and I can't find any!It is so frustrating!I would redo the whole intrenet system to find pictures!!!If I can't find pictures I will Tell my teacher that it is all your fault and you are the most disapointing website I've ever been to!
:Well, that will make a nice change for him/her from all the gossip in the teachers' longue about how insidious and dangerous the Wikipedia is. Doops |  talk 22:17, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What kind of pictures did you want? Dmn  € Դմն 13:54, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm certain this request is a joke. For example, just type in any city name and most will have pics (especially London). I'll just give you a few UK articles that I've illustrated. I've done many many more but can't be bothered to type them all in for such a silly request. The requester has obviously made no attempt to search for anything!: Arboretum Barnstaple Bradford on Avon Brecon Beacons National Park Bridge Bristol Channel Bridge Campanology Bristol Castle Combe Cheddar Gorge Chipping Sodbury Cliff Clovelly  Cotswolds Dartmouth Devon Exmoor Fishery Heritage railway and so on - Adrian Pingstone 08:16, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: *Celtic Frontier or County Boundary? Competing discourses of a late nineteenth century British border
Bretagne 44 14:44, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celtic Frontier or County Boundary? 

message: Might it be worth making this a featured article? A perhaps slighlty boring task, but...
James F. (talk) 20:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article? 

message: Who has made this new "Countries of Europe" thing on the bottom? with the subdivisions and the maps?  I think this should either be corrected or reverted back to how to used to be.  Not only are these groupings subjective, several countries are excluded from the list.  Where is San Marino, Malta.  before it also had territories that were self governing listed, like the faroe islands, or gibalter.  I think this new one is a shame.  --sterms 19:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Countries of Europe

message: How many countries of the world do recognize the UK? I remember reading there are some that only acknowledge Great Britain, because they give priority for the natural right of the Irish Island for unity and independence.
: Interesting question, but as for the natural right for an united Ireland, in a democracy there is no natural right, just the voice of the people and, in Northern Ireland, they choose to remain part of the United Kingdom. But as the UK is a member of the United Nations its sovereignty is recognised by the other member states of the Genera Assembly. :: Keith :: 13:05, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, not aware of any states who refuse to recognize the United Kingdom. Ireland, however, did not recognize the UK as the government of Northern Ireland when the rest of the country gained independance. The Irish government claimed Northern ireland for itself. This claim ahas now been dropped adn they do recognize the UK. Robdurbar 14:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  For how many countries of the world does the UK exist?