Talk:Medjugorje

message: Vatican City, Jul 27, 2009 / 12:17 pm (CNA).- Pope Benedict XVI has approved the laicization of Fr. Tomislav Vlasic, a priest leading the claims that the Virgin Mary has been appearing in the Bosnian town of Medjugorje. The priest has reportedly decided to leave the priesthood and his religious order.
The action follows an investigation into concerns surrounding the alleged apparitions, the Mail Online reports.
When the apparitions allegedly began in 1981, Fr. Vlasic was named as the "creator" of the phenomenon by the local Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, Pavao Zanic.
Fr. Vlasic became the "spiritual advisor" of the six children involved in the supposed apparitions. The children now say that the Virgin Mary has visited them 40,000 times over the last 28 years.
On January 25, 2008, Fr. Vlasic was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
An inquiry was made into allegations that he exaggerated stories of the Virgin Mary's appearance, taught "dubious doctrine," manipulated consciences, engaged in "suspect mysticism" and disobeyed legitimately issued orders.  He was also investigated for sexual immorality after he allegedly made a nun pregnant, the Daily Mail says.
Fr. Vlasic was sent to a monastery in Lombardy, Italy and was forbidden to communicate with anyone without the permission of his superior. He was also required to take a course of theological-spiritual formation and make a solemn profession of faith.
On Sunday it emerged that Fr. Vlasic has chosen to leave the priesthood and his religious order.
Pope Benedict approved of his laicization in March, thus removing his priestly status.
----
== 
Pope finally launches crackdown on world's largest illicit Catholic shrine and suspends 'dubious' priest ==
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1052230/Pope-finally-launches-crackdown-worlds-largest-illicit-Catholic-shrine-suspends-dubious-priest.html#ixzz0X4v0EUVY
By Simon Caldwell
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1052230/Pope-finally-launches-crackdown-worlds-largest-illicit-Catholic-shrine-suspends-dubious-priest.html#ixzz0X4v0EUVY
in 1985 Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger – now Pope Benedict – banned pilgrimages to the site, but this has been widely ignored.
Instead the seers have grown wealthy as a result of their claims – and so has their town, which has boomed as a result of the ‘Madonna gold rush’.
Some (of the false seers)  today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garages and security gates, and one has a tennis court.
They also own expensive cars and have married – one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, to an American former beauty queen.
Update: excommunicated for being head of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Whole Universe, a member of the Central Nucleus (both assuredly equally Mormonesque) and living in sin with some random frau Johnpfmcguire (talk) 01:14, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pope Benedict laicizes Vlasic 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131208191809/http://tzcitluk.com/stecci.html to http://www.tzcitluk.com/stecci.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130927200247/http://www.jutarnji.hr/template/article/article-print.jsp?id=190980 to http://www.jutarnji.hr/template/article/article-print.jsp?id=190980
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080821133610/http://www.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol10num2_3/constitutionwatch/bosnia.html to http://www1.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol10num2_3/constitutionwatch/bosnia.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "66 Catholic friars of the Franciscan order were killed by the communists." How about mentioning that a number of Franciscans in Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina openly supported the fascist Croatian regime of the Ustasha during the 2WW and allegedly participated in war crimes? There's two sides to the conflict. And by the way, citing church-related sources is not very unbiased.--2003:6F:8C1A:77A9:195D:DCB4:773C:4387 (talk) 19:33, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franciscan killed by the communists 

message: Greetings .
I think the whole section should be significantly reduced. I'll go paragraph by paragraph, and colour the sentence that I think should be out (or replaced in some other way) in red.
:This one sentence explains very briefly about Our Lady of Medjugorje and should stay there. You are right there is a link there if the reader wants to know more. Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Governor Sheng I agree that the section about Zovko is too long for this page.I shortened it to one sentence and added it to the end of the paragraph above. That paragraph conveys to the reader how it was under communist rule.Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

text: In 1981 as soon as reports began of the Marian apparitions on Crnica hill in the Bijakovići hamlet, confrontations with Yugoslav state authorities began. Pilgrims were forbidden from coming,[13] the pilgrim's donations were seized by the police and access to what was called the Apparition Hill was largely blocked. 
Having said all of this. There should be a rather brief explanation of what happened. For example:
The description of the events should be very brief, and the section should focus on the economic aspects the pilgrimage had on the village's economy, demographics etc. Governor Sheng (talk) 16:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Besides the changes we discussed regarding the opening sentence and shortening Zovko to a couple sentences. Everything else can stay. I am open to adding a little more to it but like you said keeping it short. The local Bishop first believed the children but then deemed the apparitions false. The Vatican did their own investigation called the Ruini report and decided to allow official pilgrimages. Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:31, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm aware of all you're saying, but we shouldn't discuss the details. Whether the bishop believed at first and then changed his opinion isn't relevant for this particular article. Governor Sheng (talk) 19:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Ok that sounds good to me but give me a few days to get to it.Red Rose 13 (talk) 16:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No probs. :) Governor Sheng (talk) 17:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry it took me so long. I have given it some thought and I don't think it is necessary to say much more about OLM on this page. If they want to know more than can go to the OLM page, don't you think? If you think we need more perhaps one small paragraph about the fact that the Bishop Zanic or Bishop Peric didn't believe the visions were real. And the final investigative commission which was created by the Vatican, the Ruini Commission, conclusion was that the commission endorsed the end of the ban on pilgrimages organized in Medjugorje. It was recommended by the commission that the town's parish Church of St. James be made a pontifical shrine with Vatican oversight. The Ruini Report was completed in 2014 and was received by Pope Francis. Pope Francis supports pastoral care of the pilgrims. Or something like this... or nothing and they can read about on the OLM page.Red Rose 13 (talk) 03:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree with this in principle. I'll write a short paragraph, and you can fix it later. Sorry for replying late as well. :) Governor Sheng (talk) 19:48, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We must have had a miscommunication for you to think it is ok to delete a whole section. I wrote that what was in the section, that I just returned, was enough and nothing else needed to be added or shortened about OLM on this page. Leave the section as it is. thank youRed Rose 13 (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ok Governor Sheng (talk) 20:32, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pilgrimage