Talk:Afghanistan/Archive 1

message: How does this entry not have any information about Opium production, forever a long historial staple to the Afganistan economy, which underwent an explosion after the Taliban was removed from power?  --Howrealisreal 18:01, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: opium

message: One day somebody said the article became too long. But it is not longer than other country profiles. But maybe it can be a good idea to add some sub-paragraphs into the chapter about the history, and to re-organise this discussion page into subdivisions. It is just an idea to work on. By the way: the new picture of the painting is really beautiful! was it not a problem, at that time, to picture people?
A suggestion:
=== About the lead/introduction of the article ===
At the introduction is written: (...) "This force, composed of mainly US and NATO troops has protected (...)". But the US are a NATO country (So now it looks like a pleonasm, or tautology, or contradiction?). Maybe it is better to write something like: "composed of NATO troops and NATO partner nations?
It can also be a good idea to add the number of the UN Security Council Resolution? (with maybe a link to it?).
(UNSCR 1386) Rob van Doorn 03:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History, Organisation of the article 

message: At the introduction is written: (...) "This force, composed of mainly US and NATO troops has protected (...)". But the US are a NATO country (So now it looks like a pleonasm, or tautology, or contradiction?). Maybe it is better to write something like: "composed of NATO troops and NATO partner nations?
It can also be a good idea to add the number of the UN Security Council Resolution? (with maybe a link to it?).
(UNSCR 1386) Rob van Doorn 03:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the lead/introduction of the article 

message: Suggestion)(Sub) Paragraphs about; 
trade,
 
mining,
 
industry,
 
agriculture,
 
transportation, (road, aviation, ...)
 
banking, ...  
Rob van Doorn 03:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  6. Economy 

message: Afghanistan (1911 Encyclopedia) was listed on VfD, but suggestions made that it be merged here instead. It currently redirects here, but from the page history, the original can be found if anyone wants to merge this information. It is also listed on Cleanup. Angela. 22:30, Jan 6, 2004 (UTC)
USSR intervened in the conutry not invaded, as reflected int he UN resolution A/RES/37/37  If we call "Invasion" we will need to call Invasion also to the intervention of USA in Vietnam.  Milton 16:32, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: 1911 Encyclopedia

message: Why is the website of Mohammed Zaher Shah considered an "official government website?" Listed as site of the king, sure. But I don't think it counts as official. I'm not getting into a revert war --Golbez 15:14, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
Last I heard the Afghans had been given their own top level domain but was being held by US/UN until the countries infrastructure was developed enough. Darthmalt 22:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Government Site 

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Afghanistan article:
* Can link nation-state: ...enghis Khan]] and Alexander the Great.  The Afghanistan nation-state as it is known today came into existence in 1746 under ... (link to section)
* Can link ethnic groups: ...he Northern Alliance, and a mix from other regional and ethnic groups formed from the transition government by the Loya jirga... (link to section)
* Can link defense minister: ...trol of warlords.  On March 27, 2003, Afghan deputy defense minister and powerful warlord General Abdul Rashid Dostum create... (link to section)
Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):
* In Afghanistan timeline 1991-1995, can backlink Islamic State of Afghanistan: ...mes caretaker president on April 28. The country is renamed Islamic State of Afghanistan. When peace seems imminent, fighting among the various guer...
* In Afghan Constitution Commission, can backlink Islamic State of Afghanistan: ...constitution-afg.com/ Official website] - "The Transitional Islamic State of Afghanistan Constitutional Committee."...
* In Bonn Agreement (Afghanistan), can backlink AFGHANISTAN: Officially the "AGREEMENT ON PROVISIONAL ARRANGEMENTS IN AFGHANISTAN PENDING...
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:35, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 3 possible wiki links and 3 possible backlinks for [[Afghanistan]]. 

message: Bold textWhat does afganistan import and export?
*Have you looked in the Economy of Afghanistan article? Jeltz talk 17:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  afganistan 

message: Afghanistan, as the article on Central Asia points out, is in Central Asia.  It is not part of the Indian subcontinent as it rests upon the Iranian plateau instead.  It overlaps and is on the fringes of South Asia, but is actually an extension of the Iranian and Turkic civilizations as well.  Eastern Pakistan is where South Asia ends.  It ends with the Indic languages of Punjabi and Sindhi.  The edits seem to be almost arbitrary as opposed to based upon history and geography.  The basic point is that Afghanistan is, in the majority, an extension of Iranian civilization.  While South Asia has had a certain unique experience both historically and otherwise, Afghanistan has been on the fringes and absorbed many aspects including a Hindu minority, the majority religion of Buddhism that dominated the region and as the base of Muslim invasions that moved into South Asia.  All of this consideration comes to some conclusions.  First, it is geographically not on the Indian subcontinent.  Second, it has no linguistic affinity to India, but does share linguistic affinity with western Pakistan which is also an extension of Iranian civilization (see Pashtuns and Baluchis).  Third, the vast majority of its history is with Iran, Tajikistan etc.  Fourth, aside from fitting neatly on a map when mapping out "South Asia", a term often as vague as the Middle East, there is little criteria to include it in South Asia proper.  The BBC does place it within South Asia, while UCLA and Harvard do not for example.  Border regions like Afghanistan, Turkey, Georgia etc. all require an assessment that is not based upon nationalism or ethno-centrism and a more overall view as to why regional labels are useful and definitive.  Otherwise, there's not point at all.  Turkey and Georgia are thus, for the record "Eurasian," but can be considered either or since Europe and Asia are not actual continents in the geologic sense, but cultural spheres of some relevance.
Tombseye 23:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I really doubt you're an Afghan historian, and you must be really clueless if you think the Medes are 'recent'.  Iranian does not mean Persian AND the Avestan itself may have been written in Afghanistan. As for 'Indian' influence, lol, you mean ancient Indo-Aryan before they went to India. They were not Indian as we know it then. Talk about stupid. Culturally Indian? How do you know that? Because Indian religious books write about them? Hinduism was still in its early stages AND Buddhism is India's main contribution, religiously, not Hinduism. Indian culture dominated over these? So the Pashtuns must be new then? And if they're 'Indian' (which means nothing here as you are clearly confusing Indo-Aryan, probably before they even moved to India, with Indian) then where are all the Indo-Aryan languages spoken in Afghanistan? The Greeks called it White India? What does that mean? Is that what this is about? Race theory? Connecting India to white people? Race itself is highly tenuous and your usage implies more of an interest in India as opposed to Afghanistan. Let's see the reference to that and since the term India was applied originally by the PERSIANS to a small part of the Punjab I doubt your point is valid. This is the result of modern nationalism and not historic record. The Afghans also have their own cultural background and the Pashtuns are Iranic. Even genetic testing that has been done links them to other Iranian peoples. Look it up and then tell me I'm wrong. Mughals/Muslims were in conflict with the Afghans, and let's not forget that actually a lot of those Muslims who came to India came from Afghanistan so the cultural influence was probably more from Afghanistan rather than from India and what does that mean anyway? Ever hear of Khushal Khan Khattak? While the Mughals favored Persian, Khattak and the Pashtuns didn't and there was conflict. Lastly, it's beyond idiotic to say that it was not until Nadir Shah that the Iranian influence took hold. The Safavids came in more than 100 years before. Lastly, Iranian civilization as in Germanic civilization is what is meant by that. Both Pashto and Dari are Iranian languages, the people bear many similar customs, and Afghanistan is much more easily accessible from Iran than it is from India, although western Pakistan is basically also part of historic Afghanistan. It is not an extension of ancient Indian civilization, but a passing point for it. The inscriptions found there, including during the brief Ashokan and Mauryan period are written in Greek, Aramaic, and Persian. Now why is that if Afghanistan's Iranian past is recent? You need to go back and hit the books and stop quoting Indo-centric history and stop pretending to be an Afghan historian since clearly you're not. And for the record my guess is you're an Indian guy pretending to be an Afghan historian as you didn't say much about Afghanistan, but lots about India instead. Tombseye 17:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh come on, you guys are one guy. Exactly the same writing style and everything.  Geezus.  No sign in name so as to be anonymous, which I have no problem with, but come on. I actually said, the cultural contribution of Buddhism was India's main contribution. However, it's all through an Iranic prism. The Iranian peoples in much of Afghanistan (Zoroastrianism remained in many parts of Afghanistan alongside Buddhism as per archaeological finds dating into the Islamic period) do adopt Buddhism and that is India's main contribution. The Indo-Aryan languages were pushed out by the Iranians more than likely as a split took place between the two branches. Iranian languages have been in Afghanistan for as long as the Indo-Aryans. The Muslim historians write about Iranian peoples or groups similar to them in Afghanistan so I'm not sure how the Indo-Aryans were wiped out at that point. I'm skeptical with a few things as the term Indian keeps being used as synonymous with Indo-Aryan, which in the case of early Afghanistan, is not the case as they hadn't moved to India yet and thus the culture that would emerge by mixing with the aboriginal peoples did not begin. That's an important point here. It's also speculative as to whether the Indus civilization was Dravidian or Elamo Dravidian (a theory that connects Elam is not remotely universal either) as the Indus script has not been deciphered. More evidence might come in the form of DNA testing at some point. The Iranians in the form of the Medes, Achaemenids, Parthians, Scythians, Seleucids and others ruled Afghanistan for over a millenium compared to less than 1 century for the Mauryans who ruled the southeast. How's that the same? The Shahis were in and around Kabul only and they don't really necessarily reflect the religion of the local population at the time as they came in fairly late. These are pretty peripheral contributions and the Indic influence (aside from the Indo-Aryans whom I don't count here) we're talking about is more on par ultimately with Ural-Altaic invaders such as Turks and Huns as opposed to the Iranic which is the predominant through history. Hinduism shows up on the periphery and is not on par with Zoroastrianism (dominant in the west) and Buddhism (in the east). No ancient Hindu temples that compare to the remnants of the other religions. Nor is Hinduism emphasized in Iranic studies pertaining to Afghanistan. That's just an odd thing to bring up in this discussion like the Jews of Afghanistan who were probably a small but vibrant minority. The Medes did rule Afghanistan circa 700 BCE. They make note of their control in inscriptions. Sorry, but you're incorrect here. As for the Greek ancestry of Afghanistan, it's tiny and genetic tests who virtually non-existent. In fact, genetic tests show that the Pashtuns and Baluchis cluster with other Iranian peoples and not people east of the Indus. These debates on ancestry are highly speculative unless backed up with some hard evidence. Kandahar is also hypothesized as a local name for Alexandria (Iskandar). We don't know if it's connected to Gandhara, but it's one of the possibilites, not a certainty. You may be right that the Pashtuns did not exist in Gandhara until much later as evidence is quite scant and only vague references to Pactyans and the Pactuike aren't enough to substantiate such claims. On the other hand, Gandhara may have had a mixed population of both Iranic and Indo-Aryan origin. This is of course outside of afghanistan and into northwest Pakistan where the Pashtuns are the majority now. Your other points aren't valid. Pashtuns/Afghans as well as Tajiks are not contiguous with Indian civilization, but Iranic.  It's not a 'mix' of Greeks either or racial. Genetic testing aside, their languages are Iranian, their culture before Islam Iranian, most of their history Iranian (not just Persian mind you). Their connections to the subcontinent ultimately begin and end with Buddhism and some limited cultural inroads. To call Indian influence the same as Iranic is not correct. I'm not being "PC" at all actually. That's also not an accurate term. I explained what I meant by Indo-Aryan and then modern Indian. It's not the same thing. People change when they move and/or are absorbed by other populations. Afghanistan is predominantly Iranian linguistically and culturally. The influence is not at all even. The Indo-Iranian crossroads you're talking about is in Pakistan where the Iranic and Indo-Aryan worlds met and mingled. Afghanistan is solidly Iranic. For the record, apology accepted. Tombseye 10:24, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

text: You still don't understand what this all means. First off, just because they spoke Indo-Aryan tongues is not a link to the culture of India TODAY. Pashto has borrowed words from Urdu and Punjabi because they are close-by. It doesn't mean that Pashto was IndoAryan before, except of course both branches were once a single language as Indo-Iranian. Actually, Indic studies have not shown anything as the Indus script has not been deciphered. These are all remnants of archaeological clues that MIGHT mean that the people spoke some Dravidian language, but no one really knows for sure. Now with DNA testing of some people they find they might find out more, but that hasn't happened yet. Brahui is believed to have arrived much later actually by most academics and is no longer believed to be an early remnant of the Indus Valley. Yes we just got through discussing that Buddhism was there and was predominant in parts of Afghanistan. Religion is one aspect of 'culture' at any rate and the people still spoke Iranic languages. Sorry, but Afghanistan is an Iranic region and most evidence supports that this has been the case for most of its history. Look, Afghanistan is Iranic predominantly and has had Indic influences mainly through Buddhism. It's not comparable. Tombseye 09:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Can you clarify and expand a bit as to what points you want put into the article Dr. Spielmann?  Is the point that OBL is a product of the CIA and was also a tactical mistake in hindsight?  Tombseye 20:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Afghanistan's Geographical Location

message: User 70.29.3.153 just took out the Official name of Afghanistan and replaced it with the Pashtun equivalent. Just thought you might wanna know about this.--Zereshk 00:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: name change

message: Would you consider contributing?  Or how about voting for it as collaboration of the week for this new but important article.--Culturesoftheworld 19:34, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultures of the World]] 

message: The following is in the article:
:'Literacy of the entire population is estimated at 36%, Male Literacy rate is 51% and female literacy is 21%. The male is higher because of Taliban laws prohibiting education of women.'
The Taliban were in power for 6 years, that is not a primary reason for women having a literacy rate of 30% less then men. The artlce would be better to leave the "explanation" out of the statistic, it is quite telling as it is.12.20.127.229 16:17, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  female literacy rates 

message: AND the information is repeated over and over again. Perhaps just a link to the origins of the name so that people can just know the basics, Afghan in its current usage is synonymous with Pashtun and stan means country in Persian and the name thus means land of the Afghans/Pashtuns. The rest of the theory might as well be in a separate article. Tombseye 09:16, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Afghanistan's name section is almost as long as the history section