Talk:Pat Nixon

message: According to writer E. Graydon Carter in Time magazine on 7 December 1981, Pat Nixon's official WH portrait was completed in 1978 by Henriette Wyeth Hurd; it was not hung in the White House until 1981, because PN reportedly didn't want it hung until her husband's was completed and the paintings could be hung at the same time.Mowens35 19:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Portrait painted

message: WikiProject Biography Assessment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 04:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Class_parameter|Biography assessment rating]] comment 

message: Where does Patricia come from? Pat was a nickname, not a shortened version of her real name. For that matter, shouldn't her real name, Thelma Catherine Ryan, be included in the opening sentence? MK2 21:05, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the National First Ladies' Library, she "assumed" the names Pat/Patricia after the death of her father. She was known as Pat from childhood, due to her birth on the eve of St. Patrick's Day. Nothing I have found indicates that she legally changed her name to Patricia. Also in a 1959 New York Times profile of the future First Lady, her name is given, in the headline, as Thelma Ryan Nixon ("Diplomat in High Heels: Thelma Ryan Nixon", The New York Times, 28 July 1959, page 11). Mowens35 22:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Her legal name of Thelma is also used in the titles and text of two other New York Times profiles of Pat Nixon, one published in 1971 and another in 1972 (both of which are cited in the Wiki article).Kitchawan 20:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: "Pat is a common familiar form of Thelma" -- no it isn't. It's remarkable that some people will get a thought in their head and then proclaim it as fact. "I know it makes no sense, but there ya go" -- there ya go fabricating. -- 98.108.199.69 (talk) 17:48, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her name 

message: What's the correct spelling of "Catherine" in her name...we have 2 versions in article.  
BostonRed 20:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: Would be good to find another, more distanced biography to enhance the article. A beloved and protective daughter's reminiscences cannot be relied upon entirely, however well-reviewed the book.Kitchawan 00:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A great source has been the First Lady Biographic Info, but I would agree that a better variety is needed. Happyme22 00:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The link to the First Ladies Library states that Pat Nixon was pro-choice; however, the only verifiable comment I can find from her is decidedly mixed, even nervous, and was said during a news conference at the White House in 1972. Can anyone find a verifiable pro-choice comment for her? Because if it's the comment cited in the UPI report published in the New York Times, she only said, "I'm really not for abortion. It is a personal thing". Which isn't exactly the same thing as a pro-choice statement.Kitchawan 20:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Views on Abortion 

message: Pat Nixon was NOT succeeded by Lady Bird Johnson as First Lady. She was succeeded by Betty Ford.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.51.51 (talk) 17:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, and that is what is stated in the article. She was succeeded by Lady Bird Johnson as Second Lady of the US, however. Happyme22 (talk) 04:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession 

message: Several Times you have cited that Pat Nixon was the first First Lady to visit a combat zone.  My source is http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/dc/dc001.html.    Toward the end of this web site it states "On July 12, 1864, President Abraham Lincoln went out to Fort Stevens with his wife and other officers and stood on the parapet...."    If this website is true, then Pat Nixon was not the first First Lady to visit a combat zone.  Mary Todd Lincoln was the first First Lady in 1864.  Pat Nixon may have been the second or third.   I am also looking for hard evidence that First Lady, Dolly Payne Madison was also at a combat zone but have only found accounts of how she removed Paintings and documents from the White House before the British Troops arrived.  Dolley Payne Madison was never in a combat zone but Mary Todd Lincoln was according to some accounts.  There was no Press with cameras during the Civil War unlike the Vietnam War to record such an event but that does not diminish the fact that the Siege of Fort Stevens was a combat zone.
User:Squirrel06  --Squirrel06 (talk) 14:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I have this very reliable source that states Mrs. Nixon was the first First Lady to visit a combat zone. I find this to be more credible because, as you yourself stated, there was no press that followed the first lady around during the Civil War. Happyme22 (talk) 20:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Siege of Fort Stevens 

message: On Pat's page, it says that she is the 1st first lady to hold a graduate degree. On Hillary CLinton's page, it says that she is the 1st first lady to hold a graduate degree. Why the inconsistency? Which one is it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sopm (talk • contribs) 02:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We have discussed this at Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Pat_Nixon, where User:Wasted Time R has said that he will do some investigating into the matter. Until we get this sorted out, perhaps we should remove it from both pages? --Happyme22 (talk) 02:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, I'm still looking at this.  One problem is the definition of "graduate degree"; by some meanings this means just a four-year undergraduate degree.  But that can't be what the NFLL bio is claiming, because for example Jackie Kennedy and Lady Bird Johnson both had B.A.'s.  So they must mean "post-graduate".  But I haven't yet been able to find where the NFLL's "University of Southern California, 1934 -1937, education and student training classes, B.S. Merchandising, with a certificate to teach at the high school level which USC gave the equivalence of a Master's degree" comes from.  Their bibliography is 7 pages long, with no indication of which item sources this.  (This is why when FAC complaints come in about our excessive footnoting, I pay lip service but mostly ignore them; the tighter the footnoting, the better!)  In New Jersey, at least, you don't need a masters to teach high school, so I'm a little suspicious that this certificate's equivalence may have been trumped out by some newspaper writer or biographer.  In any case, I haven't forgotten this item, and will keep working on it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

text: The first first lady to enter into that level program probably was Hillary, though I don't think we can pass up the fact that Pat did earn the equivalent of a master's degree. I really don't have much else to say on this matter, but your work is much appreciated and I'm hoping you'll make the call -- where do we go from here? Happyme22 (talk) 03:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Am still doing some looking around.  For now, I've changed the cite on the 'equivalent' to the Julie Nixon bio, since that's the original underlying source for this.  Wasted Time R (talk) 13:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graduate Studies 

message: I just removed this line:
:Privately, Pat felt that the power within her husband's staff was increasing, so he was becoming more removed.(ref name="csa203"/)
Whose power?  Does this mean "the power of her husband's staff"?  If so, why would that cause him to be more removed?  If anyone can rephrase this so it's grammatically correct please do - I can't because I don't know what it's trying to say.  Tempshill (talk) 20:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mrs. Nixon felt that the power of her husband's staff was increasing, and he (President Nixon) was becoming more removed from what was going on in the administration. I'll attempt a reword. Happyme22 (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - that's much clearer.  If you know the context, it'd be useful to expand it slightly; it is a curious statement.  Their power was increasing compared to what; and how?  Does it mean that the President's staff was taking more matters into their own hands, and taking away authority from the President?  That's how I read it, and it'd be clearer if the statement were a little more explicit.  Thanks - Tempshill (talk) 00:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsense line removed 

message: Raster
 Vector
I think we should use the vector image in place of the raster. Honestly, the raster image has severe quality issues, I believe should be replaced. Both are nearly identical, why should it be a big deal? Connormah (talk) 16:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: From a far glance, yeah, perhaps the two look similar, but when one examines the vector image closer, significant errors made while attempting to trace the image can easily be found. The curve is not correct on the P; the a goes too far down; the N looks like an M, as the line goes down in the vector image for the i, while it goes up in the original (third curve in); the curve isn't as high as the original on the x; the o isn't a complete circle. The fact that the vector image, when examined looks different from the raster original image is what bothers me. If you can create an exact copy of the first image in SVG format, I will wholeheartedly support adding it in. But the vector image above has too many flaws. Happyme22 (talk) 18:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signatures 

message: I think this looks vacuous and patronizing. We should refer to her as Nixon, Pat Nixon, or she, whichever causes the least ambiguity. Calling her by her first name makes the article sound like it was written by a teenage girl. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies appears to back me up. --John (talk) 08:46, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: John, WP:SURNAME "Family members with the same surname" is explicitly designed for this kind of situation, and permits the use of a first name reference.  Otherwise there are just too many ambiguous or awkward wordings that result.  Obviously you can look at any individual first name reference and decide if it is necessary or not, but overall, this is the rule that allows it.  A number of "political spouse" BLPs are FA or GA that take advantage of this.  Another point is that if you look at any real book biography of these subjects, you will see many first name references too, so it's not just 'teenage girls' who do it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: When I read WP:SURNAME I see "When referring to the person who is the subject of the article, use just the surname unless the reference is part of a list of family members or if use of the surname alone will be confusing." How does that support the interpretation you are making of it? --John (talk) 13:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, look at this text after your change: 'At the time the Watergate scandal broke to the media, Nixon "barely noticed" the reports of a break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters.[63] Later, when asked by the press about Watergate, she replied curtly, "I know only what I read in the newspapers."[64]'  I could read that as Richard barely noticing the break-in reports, and consequently Pat giving the dismissive response when asked about it.  So to me this meets the "use of the surname alone will be confusing" exception.  Ditto sentences like 'Historian Carl Sferrazza Anthony noted that ordinary citizens responded to Nixon.'  Other changes you made seem okay to me, although some editors object to paragraphs that use "he" or "she" from the start without a refreshed referent.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree completely with Wasted. And as to the red link in my last edit summary, I was in a hurry and simply double-bracketed the entire link by mistake, which is why it appeared red. The following is what I was referencing: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Family_members_with_the_same_surname. Happyme22 (talk) 04:58, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I accept completely the difficulty of avoiding ambiguity here, and I apologise for the snarky edit summary. We are all looking at WP:SURNAME now and deciding how best to make it work on this article. I do still think very strongly that just saying "Pat" is lazy and weak. Let's keep thinking about it. --John (talk) 10:48, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calling her by her first name 

message: Pat Nixon was not an economist, as is listed under "Profession."  Neither by academic training nor by vocation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sushollister (talk • contribs) 17:44, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: She was a price analyst and an economic analyst for the OPA during WWII.  I've made that clear in the article text and reworked the infobox.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:53, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect profession 

message: The link from 'Winterthur' (where police were trained as tour guides on Mrs Nixon's instructions) should surely have gone to the museum in Winterthur, Delaware, but instead it goes to the city of Winterthur in Switzerland - which admittedly has plenty of museums, but I can't believe she sent US police all the way over there! Of course you can find the correct article on the disambiguation page, but perhaps someone with the necessary editing skills can fix this so the link goes straight to the right place. This is a terribly common kind of error on Wikipedia - as if the software simply selects the first name on the disambiguation list (which in this case is the Swiss city). Is there some way to alter the central editing function so that people are made aware of the available alternatives before creating a link?92.111.250.34 (talk) 14:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Now fixed, thanks for the spot.  As for the general problem, there is a bot that will tell you if you include a link to a disambig page, but not if you include a link to a wrong regular page as in this case.  Careful writers try to check that their links are really to what they think they are to.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:15, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Winterthur link 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080720114321/http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org:80/index.php?submenu=museum&src=gendocs&link=MuseumTour to http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?link=MuseumTour&src=gendocs&submenu=museum
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Here is a 2016 Time article By her granddaughter. I hope this is useful -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: 2016 Time article about Pat Nixon

message: From what I understand from the manual of style, the title should be capitalized when standing alone and unmodified.  In the first sentence, the word "the" precedes it, so it's not capitalized.  But "served as" in the next sentence seems to point to the title itself, i.e., "Second Lady..." should be capitalized.  I could easily have this wrong, and these titles have been changed back and forth in so many articles that I don't want to start mucking it up further.  Anyone have a clear idea about this? - Special-T (talk) 15:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[MOS:JOBTITLES]] back-and-forth 

message: Should her name in the infobox be "Pat Nixon"? Her name was never "Patricia"—she was always (AFAIK) referred to by her childhood nickname of "Pat". - Special-T (talk) 15:31, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Patricia"? 

message: Alansohn, you should remove those three from cats I originally removed because Nixon's only association was that she just lived there. Being from does mean born and raised there. How can her living in New Jersey and the Upper West Side classify that she's from these places? That's like saying you're from D.C. because you moved there from your original home town. That does not mean the person from D.C. originally or grew up there during an early or significant portion of one's life. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 17:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: From is not open-ended. From has an exact meaning. You have to prove that it's not limited to those born and/or raised there. The majority of bio articles have this where it is limited to born and raised there because those cats directly apply to the scope of the article. Many people have lived in the Upper West Side. Doesn't mean all are from there. Nixon just lived there in later years. That's the only connection. Not from there. Just because those cats have that sentence on the cat page doesn't mean that it's so. There is no policy or consensus that says either toward your argument. Your restoration isn't valid until this discussion has come to an agreement. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:01, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "From" cats