Talk:Super Nintendo Entertainment System/Archive 2

message: Prehaps mention could be made of the fact that SNES can either be pronounced as a word (Rhyming with Pez) or as the letters S.N.E.S. I may be mistaken, but everyone I've spoken to in the UK uses the word, whereas everyone in America I've spoken to uses the letters. 81.137.159.61 14:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we'd need a source for that, frankly. I'm an American, but my friends and I always referred to it as "s-ness." In any case, this really doesn't seem all that encyclopedic, as it's pretty much standard for a lot of unofficial acronyms. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 21:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SNES & S.N.E.S 

message: This article, along with others on Wikipedia, says that PAL games are 17.5% slower than NTSC ones. Is this number actually correct? It would seem to me that it should be 16.67% slower (or, to put it another way, NTSC is 20% faster). I know that a lot of magazines have quoted 17.5% for years, and it's become an "accepted" value, but I've never seen any actual justification for the figure. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jsutherland (talk • contribs) 12:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 100-83.33 is 16.67, not 17.67, which is why I think the 17.5% figure is just wrong. I'm not sure about Mario Kart, either. I knew a couple of people who played the game a lot, one with the NTSC version and the other with the PAL one, and neither of them could play the other version because, they claimed, the timings were different. That doesn't mean the PAL game wasn't sped up, but it would at least suggest that they're not identical. Jsutherland 09:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PAL slowdown 

message: Isn't the Sega Genesis also a Japanese system? Why then would Americans be anti-Nintendo? Nintendo held a cult like status in the USA. I remember the console wars well but I had more friends with SNES systems than Genesis systems. I know that "my friends" are not a valid source, but the entire paragraph speaking of an anti Japanese backlash on behalf of the Blue Collar American people does not cite it's sources either. It makes no sense to me because the Sega Genesis was also Japanese. That and also because the median age for video game players during the era of Genesis and SNES was so young, that I have a hard time seeing me and my elementary school friends bickering about class warfare and USA vs Japanese consumer products when we'd have arguments over which of the two consoles we thought was better. It was usually more of a Sonic vs Mario type argument.
Of course this is all assumption based on memory. As I recall, it was children who where their main demographic. Why would children care what country their video game system came from? And if someone did, why would they buy any 16 bit console, since it looks to me like all of them where in fact made in Japan by Japanese companies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.252.86 (talk) 14:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sega started out as an American company called Service Games, designed to provide game entertainment to US miltary abroad. However, they've been wholly Japanese-owned since, I believe, about 1983 or so. The Genesis, which obviously was released after that time-frame, would have been considered (and correctly so) a Japanese console manufactured by a Japanese corporation. That entire paragraph, in fact, doesn't attribute a single source to any of its claims. I'm going to fact-tag it and wait a week or so- if a valid source doesn't pop up, it should go. Ex-Nintendo Employee 12:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "backwards compatibility" claims you tagged were relatively easy to find a source for. It would have been extremely easy if the Sega Mega Drive article cited a source. I couldn't readily find a source for the TV incompatibility claims regarding the SNES, but I did find an official reference regarding the fact of Sega Genesis incompatibility with certain TV models. Considering some of the "interesting" things the SNES seems to do with the NTSC output, I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar incompatibilities. I didn't bother to try to find anything on the "economic warfare" angle. Anomie 15:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blue Collar Americanism.... 

message: 1. Deleted Katakana and Romaji versions of "Super Nintendo Entertainment System", they weren't necessary, it's not known as that in Japan and they made the first paragraph difficult to read. (1st Paragraph)
2. Corrected "Super Family Computer". While one might think so because the Original NES was officially the Family Computer, the SNES was officially the "Super Famicom" not "Super Family Computer". (1st Paragraph)
3. Corrected "Famicom" to "Family Computer" and added katakana for it. (2nd paragraph)
ExpatJApan 06:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrected several errors about the name of the system. 

message: I'd like to include a comparison of the different cartridge shapes in the article, but I don't have a PAL/Japan cart to photograph. If someone can take a picture of such a cart (resembling the NA cart image to the right) and upload it to Commons, I would appreciate it. Or if you have both types of carts, photograph them both next to each other and save me the trouble of combining photos.
My plan is to put the comparison image into the Regional lockout section, something like I've done at User:Anomie/SNES.
Also, BTW, the History section could probably use an image or two. I'm not sure what would go well in there though. Anomie 18:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: The peer review has closed with minimal comments, but the article has greatly improved anyway. If anyone has comments relevant to the featured article nomination I plan to make when the GAC passes, feel free to mention them now to save time later. Anomie 14:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I passed the article. It seems good enough for you to nominate it for FA status. FunPika 23:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It will now undergo a complete formal GAC review OhanaUnitedTalk page 06:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you want to review it, go ahead. Be sure to drop a link here so I know about it. But I see no validity to your demoting the article with the only justification being "I don't like the original reviewer." Anomie 11:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article was demoted?  I don't see any evidence of that.  It was and still is a Good Article, according to this Talk page. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OhanaUnited didn't even actually demote it properly, they just reverted the whole GA on this page. I put it back, with the note that if they want a GA review they can follow the procedure for requesting one. Of course, I'm hoping the FAC will pass and we won't have to deal with any of that. Anomie 21:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I missed that.  Okay.  I was under the impression that it had already gone through a formal GAC review and had been passed some time ago, so it would seem inappropriate to demote it and re-review it the way it had been done. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 22:41, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article nomination 

message: Here it goes. Anomie 01:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job!! It passed!  Now, go add that well deserved star :)  Xihix 19:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations!! :) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations to you as well, KieferSkunk! Anomie 01:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Congrats to everyone, this brings back memories lol67.167.209.99 03:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Congrats too all people who helped work on this artile! EvilHom3r 15:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Article nomination 

message: I've been working on some massive copyediting and reorganizing in support of the Featured Article nomination, and Anomie has been very helpful in making suggestions to help the article flow better.  So far, I've just tackled the lead and History sections, but I wanted to open up discussion on a couple sections: "Mortal Kombat" and "The end of exclusive licensing".
I think that both of these sections have much more to do with Nintendo's history as a company rather than the SNES's history as a console.  Mortal Kombat wasn't anything groundbreaking with respect to the SNES hardware - it was just a source of controversy since the game was very bloody and, at the time, Nintendo wouldn't allow the blood and gore on their console.  It could just as easily have been the N64 or the GameBoy or any other console that this happened on - it just happened to be the SNES.  I think that this information really should be mentioned both on the Mortal Kombat page and in the history section for Nintendo itself, but not here.  It was a very significant event in video game history - it just doesn't really have to do with the SNES itself.
The same goes for "The end of exclusive licensing" - this has to do with Nintendo's policy decisions, and this particular event also occurred during the SNES timeframe. But it wasn't really a result of the SNES - again, this could just as easily have happened with any other console. It would make more sense to put this in Nintendo's history, so that this article can stay focused on the SNES. Otherwise, I'd suggest that we refocus the paragraph so that it discusses the impacts that this had on Nintendo's marketing and sales of the SNES.
Discussion? :) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 23:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not as big a deal now - the current layout works better than I'd expected. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 05:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mortal Kombat and Exclusive Licensing sections 

message: There is a reason we have sources. Both Kent's The Ultimate History of Video Games and the 1UP.com article directly attribute the success of the Genesis version of Mortal Kombat to two factors:
# The SNES version had grey "sweat", while the Genesis version had red blood when a widely-known code was entered at the title screen.
# The SNES version removed some of the more gruesome fatalities, while the Genesis version retained them. I am unsure whether it always retained them, or only with the above mentioned code.
Anyone can verify the information in the 1UP.com source. Kent may be at your local library; if I get time I may stop by my local library and post an excerpt here.
Unsourced speculation like this is original research and should be reverted on sight. Anomie 14:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Mortal Kombat'' and SNES vs. Genesis sales 

message: A preliminary (first pass) look at sources used in this article that don't appear to meet WP:RS:
* http://www.romhacking.net/
* http://yoyofr92.free.fr/
* http://www.cs.utah.edu/~tew/
* http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/
* http://www.shamoozal.com/nerdlog/
* http://www.emucamp.com/about.shtml
* http://users.tpg.com.au/advlink/dsp/
* http://nsrt.edgeemu.com/forum/portal.php
* http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/
SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources needing verification as [[WP:RS]] 

message: Am I the only one who ever got the Super Nintendo with The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past as the pack-in game, instead of Super Mario World? There's no mention of it in this article, and Internet searches provide few details. I can't recall when the package was released, but I know I got it for Christmas one year, and I got the official player's guide from Nintendo Power at the same time. Anyone else remember anything about it? —Gordon P. Hemsley→✉ 05:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I vaguely remember something about that. If it DID exist, I'm postive it was advertised in Nintendo Power around that time, so if anyone has issues from then they are willing to look through... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sure it was released with ALttP as a pack-in at some point. There were also pack-ins with a number of other games over the console's lifetime. It's not mentioned in the article because it's not particularly relevant to list every game the console was ever packed with. Anomie 11:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, the Zelda game came with SNES consoles that were sold with one controller (but I need to do more research to look it up). I remember this because my brother got his machine when it was still the first design (and got a copy of Zelda) and I got mine with the new design towards the end of it's NA run and it was imprinted on the box (which I still have) that it came with the machine if you purchased the version with a single controller.  If it is the case that this was a common practice, then maybe it should be included in the article (mentioned as part of a sentence which describes that the machine came with Super Mario World), but I'll have to do some research in my down time to verify if it is noteworthy. talk toSailorAlphaCentauri 15:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds logical. I do seem to recall only having one controller. I think I still have the box for my system around somewhere... or, at least, I did for a long while after I got it. I'd have to look for it. And good luck with your research. When I did some online a while back, the best I could find was an auction on eBay. —Gordon P. Hemsley→✉ 19:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I believe the redesign came with Yoshi's Island, the single controller w/ ZLttP.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.242.233.83 (talk) 22:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SNES Zelda 3 pack-in 

message: I was under the impression that it took weeks and months from FA promotion status to being featured on the Main Page (the only other huge exception was George Washington (inventor)). hbdragon88 19:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So was I! And as far as I know, no one even nominated it. I suppose Raul just decided it would make a good front page article. Anomie 20:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  That was surprisingly fast 

message: Has the war of PS3/Wii/360 surpassed the SNES/Mega Drive war? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.225.134.143 (talk) 17:30, August 4, 2007 (UTC)
:You have the quote wrong, BTW. It's "the fiercest console war in video game history". If you can suggest a phrasing that makes it clearer that subsequent console wars may have been fiercer without sounding awkward or losing the impact of the statement, you're a better writer that I. Simply adding "to that date" IMO sounds awful. Anomie 17:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I agree that the current generation of consoles is in as fierce a war, but IP has a point: "Fiercest war" is a rather POV statement, regardless of what sources might back it up.  I think we should limit it to "The rivalry between Nintendo and Sega sparked a fierce advertising war...", such that we leave the door open for other "fierce" wars as well, and that we don't try to put undue weight on this particular one.  It was significant, yes, but I'm not sure that the phrasing is solid. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Greatest console war in history" 

message: I don't see how just one of the console's marketing slogans is relevant, especially in the lead section (as opposed to a section about the marketing, which we don't have as it is not particularly interesting (as opposed to Sega's attack campaign, which is relevant to the Mega Drive)). I'm bringing the question here for discussion per WP:1RR, as the anon who added it apparently doesn't subscribe to WP:BRD. Anomie 01:25, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slogan 

message: Why is the "BS-X" in "Satellaview_with_SuperFamicom.jpg" blurred out? There are no legal issues related to the showing of the BS-X logo, and, if anything, it confuses readers.
Since the editors feel the need to reset any and all changes, is there a way to add a better "Satellaview_with_SuperFamicom.jpg" that doesn't needlessly blur out portions of the image?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by EliotAndrews (talk • contribs) 17:43, August 29, 2007 (UTC) 
:If you can speak Japanese, you can go ask PiaCarrot, Hr, and Muband why they blurred out the logo; I suspect there were concerns that the logo's copyright would make the image non-free. As for my reverting your additions of the image, I will repeat what I told you last time:The problem with the images you've uploaded is that you haven't specified the source or the copyright status of the images. To cover the source, you have to specifically state on the image page where the image came from. If you took the picture yourself, say so. If you scanned it from a magazine or something, specify the magazine down to the issue and page number. If you downloaded it from somewhere, be sure to include the link to the page you got it from. To cover the copyright status, you'll probably find a template on Wikipedia:Image copyright tags that describes it. Both of these are required by Wikipedia, and if you do not supply them your image will be deleted. If the copyright status is "non-free", you will also have to provide a fair-use rationale for the use of the image in any article you want to use it in.Also, note that Wikipedia's policy is that a "free" image is preferred over a "non-free" image, no matter if the non-free image is of better quality. Since we have a free image for the Satellaview (even if it is blurry), any image you supply will also have to be under a free license.If you want to post the source information for your image, I will help you satisfy Wikipedia's requirements as much as possible. Anomie 00:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satellaview_with_SuperFamicom.jpg 

message: Some SNES carts with large amounts of dialogue, such as the RPGS, had single bytes in the tables representing entire words or parts of words, as opposed to just a single letter.  Chrono Trigger's table is composed entirely of this, it has no simple alphabet programmed (http://www.snakeyes.org/tbl/files/chronotbl.txt).  From what I have seen in NES roms, this looks like a something new they used to save space.  It's probably quite common now, but I'm not sure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.255.194.1 (talk) 07:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a simple alphabet in there, see A0-D3. It's not particularly new or interesting, FF1 for example did the same sort of thing. Anomie 15:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting Code 

message: hey anomie, I'm a bit confused about the Bus-B stuff. If the V-ram is around 64k big than how can this DMA stuff work with an 8-bit bus?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.173.83 (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do note this page is for discussing improvement to the article itself, and not for general questions about the console. The Wikipedia:Reference desk exists for asking general questions. That said, VRAM isn't accessed by the program directly. Instead the starting address is set in the "VRAM Address" register and then the data is written byte-by-byte to the "VRAM Data Write" register. The 8-bit Bus-B is sufficient to address this "VRAM Data Write" register as well as several other registers. Anomie⚔ 22:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bus-B takes me where? 

message: Apart from the article using those terms interchangeably, there seems to be no mention of the marketing names used in Nintendo's marketing. I believe the SNES was known as the "Super Nintendo" in most of Europe, and Super NES in the North Americas (where the NES was already a household name). The US site mentions the SNES (or Super NES), the UK site the Super Nintendo. Anyone with more details? Bastien  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.126.240 (talk) 12:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Super Famicom was the name in Japan; the article should use that name when discussing the console in relation to Japan. Super Nintendo Entertainment System and Super NES were both used as official names of the console and may be used interchangeably, and should be used here when discussing the console world-wide or in relation to English-speaking countries. SNES is an acceptable abbreviation for use in tables and such, but should probably not be used in running text in the article. Nintendo required that they approve of all games to be released, and referring to the console as "Super Nintendo" is reliably said to have been one of the things that would lead to non-approval; I don't know why nintendo.co.uk would use that name, but I would avoid it in this article outside of the lead. The lead mentions all five of these names and the wording suggests the differentiation between "Super Nintendo Entertainment System"/"Super NES" and "Super Nintendo" (it's not important enough to state the difference explicitly, especially considering your nintendo.co.uk example); I don't know what marketing names you are referring to. Anomie⚔ 14:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Living in Europe when the SNES was released, I've never seen it being called "Super NES" except in specialist publications (ie. gaming magazines). So I'm lead to believe that Nintendo itself referred to it as "Super Nintendo" in Europe. Bastien  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.126.240 (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many (most?) people called it "Super Nintendo", just as many people called the predecessor "Nintendo" rather than "Nintendo Entertainment System" or "NES". That doesn't make either "Super Nintendo" or "Nintendo" an official name for the machines, and both of these are mentioned prominently in the respective articles. If you have evidence of actual Nintendo advertisements (as opposed to stores' advertisements) using "Super Nintendo", I would be interested in seeing it. Anomie⚔ 13:18, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have anything official either, but I do remember seeing an ad for a SNES game way back when where the commercial concluded with "Only on Super Nintendo".  It's been too long and I don't remember the game or the company that made it at this point, but I do recall that the term was used in the States at least once with respect to advertising.  I may be able to dig up a little more info. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super NES vs. Super Famicom vs. Super Nintendo