Talk:2007 Pakistani state of emergency

message: It says that the new supreme court denied that it was not the case. That's a double negative are the fore it or against it??Cryo921 16:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like someone has added their own personal graffiti.  Paragraph 2 of the first section.  "President General Pervez Musharraf announced that he has huge umberella up his butt".   It also looks as if whoever added this has replaced some of the original text.  --Daimyotx (talk) 14:10, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: possible typo

message: I've got some screenshots of Musharraf giving his speech to the nation on TV explaining the state of emergency.  Is this ok for fair use? Joshdboz 19:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I doubt it. What was the source?--Patrick Ѻ 19:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Why couldn't it count?  They'll be quite helpful to this specific article, and I can't imagine that any free alternatives could be created.  And it's not like the Pakistani government would have financial losses if we had such screenshots.  Nyttend 19:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pics of speech 

message: It has taken me a while to grasp exactly what is going on...is this a step by the president to stop the judicial from impairing his presidency, or is this a judiciary stepping out of its bounds? I don't know if this is a matter of opinion and thus not allowed in an encyclopedia, however I think something needs to be mentioned to clarify what's happening.Apolloae 00:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The court had yet to decide whether Musharraf could become president, because despite winning the election, he had been in uniform.  Musharraf preempted their decision by sacking the chief justice and imposing a state of emergency. Joshdboz 00:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Strangely enough, Pakistan's constitution, like all modern constitutions, includes a provision for what happens should a president be removed from power.  So it would not be "without a Government", just without this current dictator in charge.  Even if the politicians were served tea every afternoon in their cells, rounding up one's political enemies and shutting down free television transmission has nothing to do with creating an environment conducive to democratic legitimacy, and everything to do with punishing and discouraging rivals.  While there have always been people like Streona who celebrate sweeping aside democracy and the institution of authoritarian rule if it opposes whoever has them scared at the moment, I can't get behind that and I don't think my tax dollars should either.  This is a repeat of the west's support of Saddam Hussein and all the other dictators who were "good" until they no longer served their purpose.  -- 68.146.220.249 16:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's going on? 

message: here is a good example given by our a Indian friend.
"The truth is that the US secretly supports this action. The logic is simple, one man is easier to negotiate with than a whole parliamentary assembly. Just ask the Indians and the now dying nuclear deal.
Harry Singh, Melbourne "
User talk:Yousaf465 03:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's it an example of?  Sopwith 13:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example 

message: Should we create a timelime to track new developments? If things continue for more than a week the current format will become very messy. TSim 06:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Create a timeline? 

message: add this link where needed it's about the rejection of emergency by SC.User talk:Yousaf465 14:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  important news 

message: Someone claims in the article that "thousands are protesting in the streets of Pakistan." Really? Unfortunately this is not so. A few hundered lawyers and journalists appeared outside Karachi Press Club and The Karachi High Court and few hundered appeared outside Lahore High Court. The truth is, public reaction has been rather discouraging. I suggest my young Thereek-e-Insaaf (Justice Party [of Imran Khan]), to stop using Wikipedia for sensationist stuff and lets stick to the facts. This is a highly important episode in Pakistani politics and we shouldn't tuirn it into a soap opera. Many non-Pakistanis and Pakistani expats get their info from here, so lets stick to the facts. Thanks. .User talk:Builder2 19:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Builder2 , I disagree with you. Have you watched news? BBC reports that 500 people are captured by police today. Police surrendered Lahore High court and fire shells on it. All judges who refused to take oath under PCO are under house arrest. Wisesabre 14:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

text: one correction , I dont know about sunday , CNN wrote that 1500 people were captured from around the country Wisesabre 14:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thousands? 

message: I think this article is mistitled. There is no emergency. The only "emergency" is that Musharraf might be voted out of office. It should be labeled: 2007 Pakistani Martial Law. --209.242.137.211 17:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Though you're quite possibly right, the legal term being used by the Musharraf government and governments abroad is "State of Emergency". Since the Pakistani government is using the term, it's the best fit here. A redirect from 2007 Pakistani martial law might not be a bad idea, though. ZZ  Claims ~ Evidence  17:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Redirect added per WP:BOLD. ZZ  Claims ~ Evidence  17:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "State of Emergency?" 

message: It's not martial law by definition because the military has not taken control over the country. The police, judiciary are fully active. Kindly remove the word martial law from the beginning statement. 
I have deleted the word Martial Law from the opening lines. Just because one English daily (Daily News) with a mere 5000 circulation calls it Martial Law does not make this a Martial Law. The Parliament and local government stop operating under Martial Law. This is not so here. Kindly stop sensationalizing this topic. This is not Geo TV. Builder2  —Preceding comment was added at 07:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not only Dawn and GeoTV  who speak of Martial Law. See, in the External Links, http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2007/11/martial-law-by-another-name-in-pakistan.php by Moeen Cheema, professor of Law & Policy at the Lahore University of Management Sciences in Lahore. Besides, Dawn's paper circulation is only partly relevant, as Dawn is widely followed online. And re GeoTV, they are giving remarkable coverage in extremely hard circumstances. See http://pkpolitics.com/2007/11/05/news-english2-5-november-07/ (audio version in http://pkpolitics.com/audio/emergency/5_nov_07/news_english2_5_nov_07.mp3 ), with a phone interview of Justice Bhagwandas (from 1/3 to 3/4, roughly). I  am not going to revert your change because I never do that, but would you consider doing it yourself? --Calmansi 10:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martial Law? 

message: This article gives many fine points and details but doesn't give a broad, understandable view to someone not entirely familiar with the situation. The background section is a good example.  It should read something like "On October 6, Presidential elections were held with Musharraf winning 671 or 99% of the 685 votes cast in the parliament and the provincial assemblies. Since Musharraf is still Chief of Staff of the Pakistani Army, the Supreme Court was set to rule during the week of November 4 as to whether the elections should be voided."   
Instead the section gives the detailed back and forth making difficult to understand and ending up at the same point anyway.
It basically answers the question "why?" instead of "what"?  The answer of course is that the Supreme Court was going to rule and Musharraf wanted to stay in power.
This article should say "what time it is" not how to build a clock.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.32.77.13 (talk) 05:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Narrow 

message: well said. i completely agree. --MagneticFlux (talk) 22:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: yep

message: important link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7087570.stm about the deal and protest.User talk:Yousaf465  —Preceding comment was added at 13:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  link 

message: This is blatant and opinionated. And what is a "Generalist" in this context ?
Workersdreadnought (talk) 16:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV; "Enlightenment and Moderation under Attack" 

message: Why isn't Mussarref being called President in this article? General isn't a title it's a military rank; where's President is the title of the most 'senior position' in Pakistan. GoodDay (talk) 22:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: President of Pakistan

message: This section is not very clear on which 'majority' of lawyers are protesting and which are not. Just the usage of the word 'majority' is a little sloppy. What is the CJP saga? Repeated use of 'So far...' Mintal (talk) 06:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  People's Reaction 

message: Currently, the article includes the full text of the 2007 declaration.  Full versions of source texts are rarely included in Wikipedia — if a text is available under an acceptable license, it's generally moved to Wikisource; if it's not, then the full version doesn't belong on Wikipedia or Wikisource.
Is the license information available for this text?  If nobody knows, it should be either be trimmed down to a shorter quote, or removed and linked to instead.  Commons:Commons:Licensing#Pakistan and  suggest that it isn't available under a suitable license.  --98.206.221.93 (talk) 04:03, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Replaced with an external link.  --98.206.221.93 (talk) 17:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright of declaration text? 

message: As mentioned by several people already on this talk page, the general introduction and background sections are not written clearly so they can be easily understood by a reader new to this subject.  This is a question of copy editing, not necessarily of facts or correctness.  Although clarifications have been attempted on this talk page and on other related articles, nobody has yet tried to improve this article's text.  So I'm going to jump in and try to clean it up from a writing style perspective, hopefully not changing any of the facts or information or introducing any bias.  Please feel free to subsequently correct anything I may have messed up. -- Dmeranda (talk) 07:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction and summary confusing 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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