Talk:Baháʼí prophecies

message: This is just a beginning. My idea is to give a topical overview, with an external link to the actual text behind each topic. Also the year of each statement needs to be added, to give some context. The structure of the article needs improvement as well. Wiki-uk 17:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't exactly like this page. It comes down to opinion in most cases, and there's no concrete text describing what is and isn't a prophecy. For example, Baha'u'llah said that Germany will "lament twice", and with hindsight people will say that's a prophecy. The atomic energy thing is also much in hindsight. So this page should either be short and clear, or not here. Cuñado  - Talk 18:39, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Cunado19.  This topic depends very much on interpretation, and while there are sources for the prophecys themselves (Baha'u'llah's writings) I don't think there any verifiable sources for us to have as references in regards to if the prophecies were accomplished. -- Jeff3000 19:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

message: To be encyclopedic this page, instead of being just a page of links, needs to describe, quote the prophecy and for historical aspects show what has happened.  I think I've done that for the first three sections, and I think the page is better.  We should continue to do that for the other sections, before we add any more links. -- Jeff3000 14:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Structure 

message: According to me the following section should not be included in this article:
:After Napoleon's capture by the Prussians, General Louis Jules Trochu and the politician Léon Gambetta overthrew the Second Empire and established the "Government of National Defence" which later became the conservative Third Republic. Its creation was overshadowed by the subsequent revolution in Paris known as the Paris Commune, which maintained a radical regime for two months until its bloody suppression in May 1871. 
:-Wiki-uk 12:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not.  I definitly think it should be.  It gives the historical result, which I copied from other Wikipedia pages.  It is historically accurate and relates to Baha'u'llah's predictions that Napoleon would fall and there would be chaos in the streets.  -- Jeff3000 13:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Napoleon III 

message: In Vignettes, there is a story of `Abdu'l Baha saying something like "there will soon be a great war in Europe. This is not based on any prophecy, just common-sense." 
I don't have the book, if anybody else, could they quote that? I think it's valuable. Also, in The Servant, the General, and Armageddon it quotes `Abdu'l Baha as saying in October 1912 that
:"The European continent is like an arsenal, a storehouse of explosives ready for ignition... particularly at this time when the Balkan question is before the world." (cites source as Promulgation p. 376)
The same month he said:
:"We are on the eve of the Battle of Armageddon referred to in the sixteenth chapter of Revelation... The time is two years hence, when only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe... by 1917 kingdoms will fall and cataclysms will rock the earth." (cites sources as Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 223)
I thought these would be good for the page. Cuñado  - Talk 20:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sen McGlinn has tried to find the origin of Baha'i lore regarding World War One, and the authenticated sources. The results are on his blog in the entry named 1917 and all that. The short answer is that there was no such prophecy. Steve Marshall --118.92.189.27 (talk) 23:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest to remove the 1917 statement from the article, unless the authenticity of the statement can be proven. Wiki-uk (talk) 12:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A personal blog is not a reliable source of information. As the statement comes in several books published through Baha'i publishers, it is a valid quote for the article. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 16:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWI 

message: Again and again, this article (or its headers) assigns a definite meaning to rather vague scriptural verses. When Baha'u'llah speaks of the loss of Edirne, this is said to be a prediction of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. When he mentions the "lamentations of Berlin," this is interpreted as a reference to one of the World Wars. I don't know whether to call this an NPOV violation, original research, or what. Baha'is have obviously inherited a certain way of reading these verses, which casts their founder in the best possible light, but that is not how an encyclopedia should work. "Incidental" prophecies (i.e., statements which are not cast as prophecies, but which contain information that some readers hold to be prophetic) should be treated with special caution, especially as we are dealing with individuals who did not present themselves as figures with the power to predict the future.
Also, the word "prophecy" should not be applied to just any firmly-held belief about the future, such as expectations of world peace under a world government, but would be better restricted to statements that assign some sort of time-frame to the expected events (such as, within the lifetime of a specific individual). Dawud (talk) 06:57, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: ABehjat I think you're totally right. An enciclopedia can't take sides and say for a fact that prophecies are real and that prediction do happened. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 08:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Notive of rampant un-encyclopaedaic content

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110101163638/http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Encyclo_Baha.pdf to http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Encyclo_Baha.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110101163638/http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Encyclo_Baha.pdf to http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Encyclo_Baha.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This edit of mine was reverted and I restored it. The quote from Cole was excessively long, so I shortened it to the most germane part. I moved it to what is an obviously more logical location for the flow of the article. The only reason you would begin a topic with a contrary viewpoint (then revert back to it) before the actual topic is if you're an trying to negatively bias the article. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 23:11, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If you continue to revert simply to push a negative bias, I will report you for edit warring. The version I'm reverting to contains the same information in a summarized form and in an appropriate place in the article. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 22:16, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juan Cole 

message: It still needs a cleanup of the "future events" section, and needs the addition of a section on the "universal peace" controversy. There are not many reliable sources, but the John Ankerberg ref works, and here is another from Sen Mcglinn. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:50, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It is better, thank you. I think it could be a good idea to add some more skeptical views however that can be made in the future. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 00:13, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV fixes