Talk:LGBT rights in Poland

message: Generally speaking, a very informative article but there are clearly biased moments with a colonial taste. This is just one example:
"Nevertheless, in the 21st century, attitudes have become more accepting, in line with worldwide trends. In 2011, Anna Grodzka became the third transgender member of parliament in the world (...)"
There is no trend if that was indeed the 3rd case in the whole world. If anything - Poland here should be considered a trendSETTER in that respect. If there is truly a trend to which the author refers (although it is not clear to what kind of trend the author refers) - the example provided is anything but illustrative. 91.231.45.1 (talk) 10:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: "Worldwide trends" are demonstrably "more accepting" of the LGBT+ minorities in Western democracies, with same-sex marriage legal in 26 countries. Many more offer 'skim milk marriage' (cf Ruth Ginsburg) in the form of civil partnerships, and anti-discrimination laws that protect the LGBT+ citizens' right to employment, housing, education, healthcare and public accommodation. In that light, Anna Grodzka is an appropriate example of this trend, albeit in Poland where, as in Russia, there is rising animus against LGBT+ citizens.Chrisdevelop (talk) 20:07, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Before 1968 the worldwide trend was to ban homosexual relations. Poland didnt follow the trend. Poland doesnt need to follow the trend, what is important that Poland let people be themselves. --Cautious (talk) 20:50, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias? 

message: The previous version suggested that LGBT people are discriminated against, which is not proved by any fact. Poland in general respects equality of all people, the problem is focusing on specific rights, which shall protect LGBT postulates. 
Let us start discussion on the first paragraph. The current version: "esbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in Poland face legal challenges not faced by non-LGBT residents. " is not summarising the content of the article.
--Cautious (talk) 20:30, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: All changes to Wikipedia articles must be supported by reliable sources. It is simply untrue that LGBT people enjoy equal rights in Poland, as you can tell by reading the sources already cited in the article. (t · c) buidhe 20:39, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. The current summary doesnt correspond to the content of the article. The whole article shows that LGBT people have equal rights in Poland, but they lack the specific rights focues on LGBT issues. However, summary contradicts the article. Please explain, what exactly doest it mean that LGBT people face legal challanges??? Do they need to go to court to get approval for gay relationship???Cautious (talk) 20:45, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Do straight people need to file lawsuits in order to obtain Polish citizenship for their child? Do they need to go to the European Court of Human Rights to obtain legal recognition of their relationship, lack of which leads to various unfavorable situations and obstacles for same-sex couples not encountered by opposite-sex couples? ILGA-Europe notes that "it has become a practice of local authorities to attempt to ban equality marches", so we can add that straight people do not need to defend their freedom of assembly in court. (t · c) buidhe 21:09, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The first point: children registration form is the same for all, there is no discrimination there. Everyone, who presents wrong form, where numbers of mothers or fathers is higher than 1, will be refused. The second point: every couple in Poland is protected according to Polish constitution as union of a woman and a man. If someone has other kind of couple, it is his private affair. Do you think Poland shall change its constitution to accommodate claims of Mr & Mr Smiths? If Mr & Mr fulfill the conditions given by Polish law, their couple will be recognized. If not it is their private problem. No discrimination here. Third point: any proof that all people, who want to take part in "equality march" are LGBT? Any proof that no straight person can have its demo banned? All your points gone. --Cautious (talk) 19:05, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You're free to believe there's no discrimination against LGBT in poland if you want. But the fact remains undeniable that LGBT people may encounter "legal challenges not faced by non-LGBT residents". The above situations would not have happened if the people involved were straight. (t · c) buidhe 19:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Point 1: legal challenge may be encountered by LGBT and non-LGBT people alike. Point 2: legal challenge may be encountered by LGBT and non-LGBT people alike. Point 3: legal challenge may be encountered by LGBT and non-LGBT people alike. You don't have a point. --Cautious (talk) 20:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You are forcing your POV. Your POV statement is that LGBT people face challenges, but non-LGBT not and I can have an example that denies your point on all accounts. However, you are not interested in honest debate. You have removed my source that denies your point #1--Cautious (talk) 20:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

text: This is WP:NOTAFORUM. If you want to make a contribution and have the sources to back it, then you're more than welcome. Otherwise, take it elsewhere. François Robere (talk) 19:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome. You might not be aware, but all Polish people have legal chellanges and they face problems in public offices. I gave a source about parents that cannot register their, because of some bogey reason. I contributed accordingly, because LGBT people DO NOT FACE CHALLANGES THAT ARE UNKNOWN TO NON-LGBT people. --Cautious (talk) 20:43, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, without a source that specifically discusses LGBT rights in Poland the article can't be changed. See WP:Original research. The article's first sentence is similar to other articles on LGBT rights in countries that aren't considered to fully protect them, such as LGBT rights in Romania or LGBT rights in Russia. (t · c) buidhe 21:02, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not care that you like the summary sentence to be the same in many countries if it goes against content of the article. This makes completly no sense to anybody. I have at hand examples that all people face challanges in Poland. Please stop forcing your POV, because it goes against wiki guidelines and start discussion in good faith. --Cautious (talk) 21:15, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

text: I agree with buidhe and François Robere. This article looks to use reliable sources to indicate where the rights of LGBT Polish residents are unequally protected. I woudn't recommend continuing this line of discussion unless you find other reliable sources that contradict that point or have good reason to believe some of the existing sources are unreliable Firefangledfeathers (talk) 21:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Here you have a source 
It describes a non-LGBT parents that are not able to register a child, because of the formal reasons. This denies point 1 of the above example. I meant that this formulation is clearly wrong, as every person in Poland can face legal challenge. The fact that you are non-LGBT doesn't make you challenge free.--Cautious (talk) 21:29, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

text: I advise you to drop the WP:STICK. Admins do not take homophobia lightly. tgeorgescu (talk)  21:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  tgeorgescu this is your baseless claim, you tried to offend me for alleged homophobie and put no merit point. --Cautious (talk) 22:03, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The current formulation is wrong and is not supported by sources. --Cautious (talk) 22:03, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  sounds too much like And you are lynching Negroes. Why? Both are deflections from recognizing the reality. tgeorgescu (talk)  23:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, do you understand English? It is claimed that one group face challenges while the other not. I just proved the claim is false. Any conclusions?--Cautious (talk) 07:37, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

text: a single case is not the same as structural discrimination—blindlynx (talk) 00:12, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but people with the documents that do not fit into agreed templates face in Poland systematic discrimation. By the way, there is no claim of systematic discrimination in the whole article. And you don't have any source that claims that. 3:0 --Cautious (talk) 07:37, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That is like the Confederates would have replied to Abraham Lincoln:  tgeorgescu (talk)  10:31, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, it is not. Any proof? --Cautious (talk) 12:12, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: There are tonnes of sources in the article.  A few random ones from the last year are: , , .  Please stop POV pushing—blindlynx (talk) 14:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Equal rights

message: "which was made in accordance with Poland's anti-discrimination laws," - WP:RSOPINION that was removed from the source.
Do we keep such opinion based on archival version of the source, or should we rather remove it?
I'm not very sure, but it doesn't seem right to keep removed content on basis of verifiability.
I couldn't find any guideline (If anyone has link to one, I would be thankful) that would inform what should we do if web source does remove part we cite. --Wiedzosław (talk) 11:34, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source changed