Talk:1941 Odessa massacre

message: Please do not move articles to controversial names without consensus. I did not see a discussion regarding the move to Odessa Holocaust, therefore I am restoring the long-standing name. If there are going to be other articles named Odessa massacre, then we could discuss WP:DISAMBIG. Perhaps Odessa massacre (Holocaust) or some such would be appropriate, but I dislike parentheses in titles. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  restoring traditional title 

message: There seems to be a certain uncertainty regarding the number of victims. Richard J. Evans in his ″The Third Reich at War, 1939-1945″ Penguin Books 2008, p. 232 says: "...Romanian troops took this as a license to launch a pogrom. Over the next two day, 417 Jews and alleged Communists were hanged or shot, and some 30.000 Jews were rounded up and force-marched out of the city to the town of Dalnic. But then, on the intervention of the mayor of Odessa, they were marched back to the city harbour. Here 19.000 of them were herded into four large sheds, where they were all machine-gunned. After this, the sheds were set on fire to ensure there were no survivors." In a footnote he gives "Deletant, Hitler's Forgotten Ally, p. 171-3 as the source and adds, "with accurate details and figures based on Romanian and German documents (other accounts seem to involve an element of double-counting)". On the other hand, Donald E. Thomas Jr. in an article about the Holocaust (http://www.pbs.org/thewar/detail_5231.htm) says:" In reprisal, Romanian army units massacred 19,000 Jews and locked another 20,000 in warehouses in a nearby village, which were then set on fire and machine-gunned." Now, which is to be believed?--Mycomp (talk) 11:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The number of victims 

message: I have seen this article being edited by people who just copy paste from propaganda books unsubstantiated by any materials and who concentrate on Sci-Fi scenarios (such as the 19,000 burned alive). I would advise you to please read a bit more history before advancing numbers. Many innocent victims were killed in Odessa but leaving aside post war soviet propaganda if we are to consult the actual evidence and the testimonies of survivors these are quite not what some people advance here.
Thank you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.85.0.125 (talk) 19:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no debate other than between you and the reliable sources. Now do stop vandalizing the article. Dahn (talk) 19:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate over numbers 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/presentations/programs/presentations/2005-03-10/pdf/english/chapter_05.pdf
** In Iaşi on 2011-04-24 07:19:08, 404 Not Found
** In 1941 Odessa massacre on 2011-05-25 03:16:31, 404 Not Found
** In 1941 Odessa massacre on 2011-06-04 16:16:46, 404 Not Found
The link to the village of Dalnik under the subheading "The beginning of the Holocaust" actually links to a page on motorcycles and needs to be fixed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.116.168.39 (talk) 15:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: here's the headline of an article i found in the new york times, 1905. maybe you want to use it here or in Odessa. greetings from de.wikipedia.org, Maximilian (talk) 16:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Odessa pogroms. Dahn (talk) 16:14, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  massacre 1905 

message: What about the 2014 Odessa Massacre? 82.169.103.207 (talk) 21:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  massacre 2014 

message: Were any of these Romanian generals put on trial after WWII? I realize that Romania switched sides to the Allies once they were invaded by the Soviets but it seems like this is such a massive war crime that there would be some accountability after the war. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 14:08, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I believe two were executed by the Soviets/Romanian Communists after the war. The Garrison Commander at Odessa was originally sentenced to death as well but had his sentence commuted to life imprisonment instead. 185.45.52.143 (talk) 08:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  War crimes trial? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130522211527/http://holocaustremembrance.net/2Postings/2MarcuRozen-2book/024-Demography.html to http://holocaustremembrance.net/2Postings/2MarcuRozen-2book/024-Demography.html
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 22:29, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: These numbers are all unsubstantiated. As if they were pulled out of thin air. Disgraceful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.102.108.226 (talk) 04:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  These numbers  

message: On a mainly grammatical note "Coverers, as well as persons who know about this and do not report, are punishable by death." is wrong. The punishable crime(s) would be 'covering' and 'failing to report' , (although 'covering' is not a standard English term in this context and its meaning is not clear. Does it mean those hiding Jews?). Alternatively "Coverers, as well as persons who know about this and do not report, will be/are liable to be punished' with death, OR will be/are liable to suffer the death penalty.". There are other possibilities but my inability to read the source and not knowing the language prevents me from coming up with a grammatically correct translation with the right 'tone' and accuracy. The people committing the punishable 'crimes' are not the crimes themselves.
Less serious is "will be punished with the death penalty", it would be more natural to say "will be punished with death" or "will suffer/be subjected to the death penalty". The punishment is death, 'death penalty' is the name for that punishment. Present text has the feel of a possible literal translation and is a bit 'clunky'. Pincrete (talk) 11:13, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coverers … …  are punishable by death? 

message: Regarding the line that refers to 'German Colonists' having been participants in the massacre I wonder if this term is strictly accurate. By the time of the second world war the German speaking settlements had been in existence for almost 150 years. So more accurately they would be German speaking Ukrainians, or ethnic German Ukrainians. Should we therefore refer to them as such? Reading around I know that there were purges by Russia and Ukraine of their German speaking populations both before and and after both world wars, and there may well have been a historic desire to delegitimise their right to be called Ukrainians or Russians by referring to them as colonists. That being said in most other countries a group that had been present for over a century would not be considered colonists but citizens of the country they were born and raised in.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.45.52.142 (talk) 09:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Colonists 

message: Following the recent changes in Odesa page, it makes sense to correct the spelling of Odesa throughout this article. 00:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming to Odesa 

message: Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crimes against humanity category removal