Talk:Handbra

message: *probable keep if I find the time to source it. I suggest we need someway of dealing with phenomena that are clearly notable, and that can be shown to be notable--and, yes, pictures are evidence as well as words--but do not really have a fixed name. I continue to think it odd that we both focus on contemporary non-print culture, and rely on traditional print media, or their exact electronic equivalents-- to document them.   WP, the last old fashioned encyclopedia. (smile) DGG 06:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also like to point out that what Sarah Michelle Gellar is doing in the photo has no direct relevance to the term. Deb 16:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, and the Janet Jackson Rolling Stone cover does not even match the description in the article, let alone being a prime example! Deb 16:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not to mention the pure POV of "gained iconic status". Valrith 14:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Comment SMG is demonstrating the handbra from what I can see, it's 100% relevant, though Deb's comment about JJ is pretty much spot on - could be considered a modified handbra.  How did this survive the last AFD?  I think it's absolutely on the cusp of delete/keep, and can't really decide where to put my vote.  --WLU 17:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's one - editor of Zoo magazine quoted in the Guardian newspaper: "The cover model's breast is partially concealed by her cupped hand. 'We call that shot "hand-bra",' says Paul Merrill, launch editor of Zoo and now in charge of international editions, 'We use that a lot.'"KD Tries Again 19:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Comment The article isn't about pictures of people covering their breasts and nipples, it's the use of the term 'handbra' to describe the action.  Plus, photo sites don't count as RS, and would probably be primary rather than the preferred secondary sources.  However, the reference has convinced me to change my vote.  WLU 01:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Further comment: I agree with the above (though I won't be changing my vote).  From what I can see, the Guardian article refers to this usage very much as a photographic technique that has little to do with what the woman is actually doing.  The article as it stands doesn't reflect this.  If it did, I suspect we would be seeing it in context as a technical term of minor importance. Deb 15:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Kind of puzzled by the comments.  The handbra is a pose the model assumes in order to be photographed: "The cover model's breast is partially concealed by her cupped hand. 'We call that shot "hand-bra",' says Paul Merrill, launch editor of Zoo and now in charge of international editions, 'We use that a lot.' He flicks to a cover showing a model whose hair extensions cover her nipples: 'This is hair-bra,' he says."  It's a modelling technique, not a photographic technique, but it is a modelling technique used for photos (or film).  Seems pretty clear.  Hey, anyone up for a 'hairbra' article on wiki?KD Tries Again 14:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion discussion

message: Until a couple weeks ago this article included a series of low res screen capture images from the advertisement for Holding Your Boobs Magazine on Saturday Night Live.  The image was formerly in Parody advertisement as well. I don't know the rationale for why the image was deleted. Are screen capture images fair use in this instance? My interpretation is that it is, but with fair use I'm perpetually bewildered. Can this image be saved? H Bruthzoo 16:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Holding Your Boobs'' screen capture image

message: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". Its not original research to call Janet Jackson's cover shot for Rolling Stone a "handbra". If I see an article in the New York Times on the "Conflict in Iraq", I can use it as a source for the Wikipedia article "War in Iraq". If historians change the name of the war later, such as they did for WWI, its still the same war, that is not original research, its reproducible research from primary sources.  --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 14:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Rolling Stone cover makes no use of the term.  It is irrelevant to this article. Valrith 21:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Reread above. You are confusing a dictionary with an encyclopedia. A dictionary defines words, an encyclopedia describes concepts.  --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The definition of the word or the use of it is not the most important factor, it's the fact that no claim to fair use can be made for why this Rolling Stone cover needs to be used. The most clear section of fair use is broken when one asks "can a free replacement be easily obtained?" Yes, definitely, find a willing female to have her breasts "handbra'd" and take the picture. There's no reason to use the copyrighted work of another. Leebo T/C 01:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure it's "iconic." It's mentioned in the article, and you could provide a link to it on Rolling Stone's website, no? I disagree that it constitutes fair use. You can take a different picture of a handbra and mention the Rolling Stone one with no lost understanding. Leebo T/C 03:33, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I want to note that you say "restoring full rationalized image," but the image has no fair use rationale, even for the other articles its used in. It needs to have a rationale for each article, especially for something indirect like this. Leebo T/C 03:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Janet Jackson 

message: Where is everyone quoting that information getting that from? THE evil fluffyface (talk) 23:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Rolling Stone'' cover award

message: An iPhone application "Boobs in Hand Bras" showcases various photos of hand bras on women.[11]
this looks alot like advertisment  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.76.53.158 (talk) 05:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost a year later, but I agree. Yoink. - JeffJonez (talk) 03:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: cruddy iphone app

message: This term is not necessarily notable on its own, but the information in this article may be condensed and moved to Glamour photography. This would enhance the master article and attract more edits and readers to the information if it were merged. With no opposition, this will be done in 48 hours, otherwise please leave your remarks here. Thanks, Cumulus Clouds (talk) 19:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't feel like there's enough information in this article to warrant it's own entry. There's a sentence about what it is, followed by all the times it was used. Much of this information is duplicated at Glamor photography (specifically the sections surrounding usage), so it could easily be merged back in. Whether it's a notable term isn't especially relevant to the merge, since the topic would still be discussed within Glamour photography. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 20:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

text: It might be OK to merge it somewhere, but "Glamour photography" doesn't seem to be the right place, since not all such photographs are intended to be glamorous by any means... AnonMoos (talk) 20:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

text: *Maybe Nonnude photography would be an acceptable alternative. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 20:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger to [[Glamour photography]]

message: Just a few friendly suggestions on how one can expand this article further:
*What was the reaction to these depictions of the handbra? Has there been any criticism or controversy relating to them? 
*What are the reasons or motivations that a person might have to be depicted in a handbra? Interviews with Demi Moore or Janet Jackson concerning their famous handbra images might be useful here. --Bardin (talk) 16:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expand 

message: The article starts
: The handbra motif is an uncommon and unnecessary pose in early 20th century European and American pinup postcard media because toplessness and nudity were common. In America, after bare breasts become repressed in mainstream media circa 1930, the handbra became an increasingly durable pose, especially as more widespread American pinup literature emerges in the 1950s. Once bare breasts became a common occurrence in pinup literature, after the early 1960s, the handbra pose acquires less necessity in pinup media.
The language is very weird. I could propose a rewrite...
: The handbra motif was uncommonly used by the early 20th century European and American pinup postcard media because toplessness and nudity were common. In America, after bare breasts was repressed in mainstream media circa 1930, the handbra became an increasingly durable pose, especially as more widespread American pinup literature emerged in the 1950s. Once bare breasts became a common occurrence in pinup literature, after the early 1960s; the handbra pose again lost popularity in pinup media.
...but not sure it's worth it, as it's completely unsourced and probably OR anyway? CapnZapp (talk) 19:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  in the media 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131112030213/http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/BB19_SS/BB5540_S/BB5540.html to http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/BB19_SS/BB5540_S/BB5540.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070126004940/http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2006/0217.html to http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2006/0217.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* Bella Vendetta BAA315 45 PB211134.JPG
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:53, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The first photograph appears to be of a man with breast implants. Would it be more accurate (not to say less misogynistic) to replace the photograph with one of a woman? H Remster (talk) 21:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph of a man