Talk:Israelites

message: This history is severely flawed. It needs to be reviewed by historians. It is propaganda to suggest Jews did not originate in Israel.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C3:8601:EAA0:C84E:3134:C166:59F7 (talk) 14:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

message: In Jewish religion as well as several strands of historiography, the assumption of continuity or even identity is made between Israelites and Jews. Terms like "Nation/People of Israel" (caps not always a must) can't currently be linked to any Wik. article, because neither Israelites, Jews, or Israelis covers more than part of the intended meaning. Arminden (talk) 09:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: "israelites" means jews and samaritans, today. there are forces intentionally being erasive of our existence in academia etc. get loud 67.83.36.42 (talk) 02:47, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing: term for Israelites + Jews, together 

message: :A 2004 study (by Shen et al.) comparing Samaritans to several Jewish populations (including Ashkenazi Jews, Iraqi Jews, Libyan Jews, Moroccan Jews, and Yemenite Jews) found that "the principal components analysis suggested a common ancestry of Samaritan and Jewish patrilineages. Most of the former may be traced back to a common ancestor in what is today identified as the paternally inherited Israelite high priesthood (Cohanim), with a common ancestor projected to the time of the Assyrian conquest of the kingdom of Israel." (With 1 ref, see below.)
That looks like a major probable misunderstanding of the study results.
This sentence now says that MOST Samaritans of today are descendants of the ancient priestly class. I'm quite sure that it meant to say that only Samaritan priestly families share that heritage - and are paternally related to Jewish families called Cohen. However, if the current meaning is indeed the correct interpretation of the study, that would be beyond sensational and would require ample elaboration.
If most Samaritans can be "traced back to a common ancestor [among] the paternally inherited Israelite high priesthood" and "the principal components analysis suggested a common ancestry of [all] Samaritan and [all] Jewish patrilineages", that places most Samaritans and Jews (and not just Sam. priests & Jewish Cohen families) in the same group of patrilinear descendants from ancient Cohanim.
The ref:
*cite web |title=Reconstruction of Patrilineages and Matrilineages of Samaritans and Other Israeli Populations From Y-Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Variation |url=http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130508024921/http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf |archive-date=8 May 2013 |access-date=10 May 2010}} (855 KB), Hum Mutat 24:248–260, 2004.
Arminden (talk) 09:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm reading the "most" as referring exclusively to the aforementioned common patrilineal ancestries, not to the populations of either group at large. Assuming that is what the source says, there's no real obstacle to changing the article's wording to make this clearer. Sinclairian (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  MOST Jews and Samaritans of today are descendants of ancient priestly class? Or wrong edit? 

message: :Modern archaeology suggests that the Israelites branched out from the Canaanites through the development of Yahwism, a distinct monolatristic—and later monotheistic—religion centred on the national god Yahweh.[7][8][9][10][11][improper synthesis?]
Hi . It is not enough to drop such a tag w/o explaining within the tag or on the talk-page what you mean. It's too much to expect from fellow editors to go through 5 (!) different sources to figure out what you might be protesting against, or at least doubting. So please elaborate, or else the tag must go. Thank you. Arminden (talk) 09:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unelaborated tag