Talk:List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality

message: At least for New Zealand there are some "errors". The commonly cited number of New Zealanders awarded Victoria Crosses is 22 -- which does not include Henry Cecil Dudgeon D'arcy and Bernard Freyberg who are listed in the New Zealand section. But, Freyberg was commissioned in the NZ Army and was later Governor-General of NZ, and D'arcy was born in New Zealand. So it gets confusing. I would have to guess that there are similar cases for the other nationalities. Any thoughts on how this should be dealt with? Evil Monkey - Hello 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, I think we need to have specific criteria about what constitutes the nationality. That is why I have left the List of New Zealander Victoria Cross recipients intact for the moment. I think this list should be down to those who had nationality at the time of the award and this should be stated in the lead. Woodym555 11:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: The sortable nature of the table is intended to remove the issues generally associated with long lists. The New Zealand page was getting full of tangents and I could see the day where "people who had ever set foot on New Zealand" would have its own section. The page as I redirected it can be seen at this permalink. The issue is complicated as several countries claim recipients as their own. I have kept this list to born or lived/fought for. Personally I don't really see the need for a buried in list, though I am open to building it if asked. Woody (talk) 09:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality confusion 

message: I would support the little flags not being used. There seems to be a number of errors. In theory Charles Heaphy (1864) should have a Union Flag, since the current New Zealand flag was not adopted (at least in part) until 1869. The current flag of the British Virgin Islands was not adopted until 1960. Likewise, the flag of Jamaica wasn't adopted until 1962. To be really nit-picky, the German flags should be :Image:Flag of Germany (2-3).svg, the flag of the German Confederation. All the Indian awards should be the Star of India (flag). I could be just being really anal here, because I can't be bothered fixing them :-) Evil Monkey - Hello 08:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed all the flagicons, they weren't really adding that much, and they were all inaccurate. Most of them would have needed Union Flags so it doesn't show that much. I have also centre aligned the date column. Woodym555 11:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The flags

message: There does not seem to be a definition of nationality. Is it place of birth or citizenship at the time of the award of the VC. Or should it be the nationality of the force in which the recipient was awarded the Victoria Cross. For Jørgen Jensen was born in Denmark but he became a British subject in 1914 and was awarded the Victoria Cross as a member of the Australian forces. The reason he became a British subject in 1914 was because then there was no such thing as Australian citizenship. Indeed no Australians who were citizens when they were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross and only four Australian citizens have been awarded the Victoria Cross. The Australian Citizenship Act came into effect on 26 January 1949 so only the four Vietnam War recipients were Australian citizens when awarded the Victoria Cross. Since all four were born before 26 January 1949 then no Australians who were citizens when the were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross.
I think that nationality of the force should be the criterion which is the criterion for nationality by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The nationalities for Commonwealth War Dead are Australia, Canada, (Undivided) India, New Zealand, South Africa and United Kingdom. If the criterion is citizenship then there are just four Australian recipients and if it is place of birth there are 80 Australia recipients since 17 of the 91 members of the Australian forces were not born in Australia. In addition to the 74 Australian born members of the Australian forces there are six Australian born recipients of other forces. So until Beatham is listed as English, Birks as Welsh, Cooke as New Zealand etc I will delete Jensen as Danish.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting Jensen as Danish 

message: After an IP has been reinstating the content of List of Indian Victoria Cross recipients, I may as well open up discussion again. Currently, those countries with over 75 recipients have their own lists due to their size. Below that, there is no need for a separate list, it is all included here. Whilst I accept that a separate list could become an FL, there is no need as it can be perfectly included here as it is at the moment. What do other people think? Woody (talk) 13:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amalgamation discussion 

message: I have removed the incomplete tag as this list is as complete as it is going to get due to size constraints. As is stated on the list, some nationalities are summarised here and expanded on in their own lists. What is incomplete about this list as it stands? Woody (talk) 13:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete tag 

message: Sgt Aubrey Cousins, VC from Latchford, Ontario, Canada  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.180.163 (talk) 23:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Canadian and English recipients are linked to other pages - click on the Canadian or English Recipients links to access them Kernel Saunters (talk) 11:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Likewise List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients.  Hamish59 (talk) 14:00, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Names 

message: Portuguese Private Aníbal Augusto Milhais, in the Battle of La Lys, April 1918, received the Victoria Cross for his acts, covering the retreat of thousands of British soldiers.
PR.PT (talk) 15:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This soldier may have received the DCM or MM but did not receive the Victoria Cross. Awards to foreign soldiers are not usually gazetted so checking the London Gazette for confirmation is not an option. However, his name does not appear in official lists of recipients produced by the War Office. I will check some references and pose the question to some experts and see if I can determine the award granted to this gallant Portuguese soldier. Anthony Staunton (talk) 11:17, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In the First World War two Distinguished Conduct Medals (DCM) and 76 Military Medals (MM) were awarded to Portuguese troops. I am still checking the names. Anthony Staunton (talk) 10:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing name: Certain 

message: What are the guidelines for Nationality? I see John Danaher is listed as South African in the list but his Wiki page lists him as Irish. Can someone put together a short guideline perhaps? Gbawden (talk) 08:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Since nationally is not defined how can there be guidelines? For some it is place of birth, for others it is citizenship while I prefer nationality of the force. All have conceptual issues including nationality of the force. It is valid to include HEIC with the Indian Army although I separate the figures. I do not think anyone includes VCs to the British Army regiments in India between 1895 and 1902 but technically the British Army units were part of the official Indian Army during that period. Some sources list the one Scottish Horse VC of the South African War 1899-1902 as a British Army award instead of a South African award. As to citizenship no person born an Australian citizen has ever been awarded the Victoria Cross. Of the 80 Australian born recipients, 74 of the 91 recipients serving in the Australian forces, four of the five Australians serving in South Africa and British forces counted in Australia as Australian recipients and two others born in Australia who are not counted in Australia as Australian recipients, none were born before 26 January 1949 when Australian citizenship was first proclaimed. Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationality follow up

message: This is not a list of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. It is "A_List_of_Miscellaneous_Victoria_Cross_recipients_by_nationality_selected_according_to_whether_the _citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_less_than_75_Victoria_Crosses_mixed_with_pointers_to_other_pages_where_the_citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_more_than_75." Of course, such a title would be very confusing — but not less confusing than the manner in which the page is currently formatted.
I understand that a single list with over 1300 items might be unwieldy but making the minor exceptions the major component of a topic is very poor style. All the items on a list should possess similar semantic content. That is, a list of recipients should contain recipients and a list of pointers should contain pointers.  No professional editor would let an author get away with mixing the two like this because readers find it confusing. My suggestion is that this page become a list of lists and its current list of VC recipients placed on another list with an appropriate title such as, for example, "A List of Victoria Cross Recipients Other Nationalities". With perhaps some text to describe the selection criterion and why it's necessary.75.157.135.57 (talk) 07:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction for confusing format proposed 

message: From the second paragraph that suggests the VC is a ‘military decoration’ to the last paragraph that states ‘Several Commonwealth countries have now created their own award systems’ the summary of the history of the VC is replete with errors. The VC is a decoration that is usually awarded to the military but has in the past been awarded to civilians. It is not several countries but all major countries of the Commonwealth which have created their own award systems. However, in the third paragraph ‘Between 1897 and 1901, several notices were issued in the London Gazette regarding soldiers who would have been awarded the VC had they survived. In a partial reversal of policy in 1902, six of the soldiers mentioned were granted the VC, but not "officially" awarded the medal.’ shows a total misunderstanding of posthumous awards. There were three notices issued in 1900 and 1901 and in an exception to policy for the South African War, the next of kin of the three received their medals in 1902. At the same time, three posthumous VCs awards were also gazetted. Since this is a list of recipients, the history and evolution of the VC does not need to be repeated and all paragraphs after the first should be deleted. --Anthony Staunton (talk) 00:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  main article info does not need to be repeated 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927230754/http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/Info_sheets_John_Bythesea.htm to http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/Info_sheets_John_Bythesea.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070527201118/http://www.museumwales.ac.uk:80/walespast/article.shtml?id=26 to http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/walespast/article.shtml?id=26
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070815093946/http://rapidttp.com:80/milhist/vol017iu.html to http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol017iu.html
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thread_title:  External links modified