Talk:Shelta

message: For those of you interested in the Scottish form of Gaelic, there seems to be a similar problem regarding this Canadian mixed language. --MacRusgail 16:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bungee is English with influence from other languages. It's not a mixed language. – ishwar  (speak) 16:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Bungee language]]

message: Just a quick note...the John Sampson link is incorrect I believe.  The current one goes to John A. Sampson (a gynecologist). (Preceding unsigned comment from User:Davidsetagaya at 2006-09-09 T05:36:37)
:Good catch. Delinked for now. Someone can create a "John Sampson (Romany scholar)" or "John Sampson (linguist)" or "John Z Sampson" when necessary. Telsa (talk) 08:11, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong link

message: The translation looks spurious in parts. It simply does not
appear to be a credible translation. Is there confirmation
anywhere that "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory"
translates into "Wibble wibble plop" in Cant?
I suggest removing this translation entirely, as it is too
vulnerable to unverifiable vandalism.
: User:Cratylus3, Another editor has reverted the vandalism - but thanks for noticing it and remarking upon it.LiPollis 11:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:     Doya wanna byya carpehh reel chape like bahss
    (= DO YOU WANT TO BUY A CARPET REAL CHEAP LIKE BOSS? - someone's having you on mate!)
Your right this page is utter cr@p and not just the stupid changes others are making....whoever wrote it should go talk to a real Irish Traveller, like at pavee point,  and not some stupid acedemic idiot who thinks he knows what hes talking about. so annoyed by this!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.107.71.4 (talk) 15:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible Vandalism

message: Why does the infobox only trace as far back as Irish? Irish  isn't an language isolate, so shouldn't it trace back the whole way? - EstoyAquí(t • c • e) 13:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language family 

message: Shelta is not a "Goidelic language". It is basically English with a special vocabulary. The vocabulary is partly Old Irish, partly Irish words that have been intentionally made unrecognizable in a way reminiscent of Verlan and Pig Latin.194.100.66.100 (talk) 11:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: SHELTA IS NOT A GOIDELIC LANGUAGE

message: It's not because there are no Cant words for these lines, but because For the kingdom, the power, etc., is not used in the Catholic form of the Lord's Prayer. Typically, these words are heard at Mass, when the Laity recite them only after the Priest has interjected a short prayer after the preceding part.
Nuttyskin (talk) 13:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [no Cant]

message: There is no citation for this.  I don't claim to be an expert on Shelta, but everything I've heard about it suggests that is it structurally English with modified Irish vocabulary.  This doesn't sound like something "originally based on Irish" at all, let alone Old Irish!
This needs a citation or removal.
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 01:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Originally based on Irish..." 

message: As Irish travellers are Catholic, it's interesting that the text ends with "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours," which can be used in Catholic masses since 1970 but not before that - and it is still very rare in Catholic masses today. How many unrelated gypsies did the academic interview to establish the Cant and Shelta versions?86.46.207.32 (talk) 10:18, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Anglican Lord's Prayer

message: Ok, started a cleanup of this page, going to be rigorous about references and sources. Will also expand as I find the time. As a broad sort of response to various queries above (and as amended on the page), the language has gone through 3 main phases:
#Irish/Gaelic speaking
#Bilingual
#Shelta speaking (Hiberno-English with a strong admix from Irish/Gaelic)
Hence some of the confusion around the classification; in a way it depends on the question of "when are we talking". But modern Shelta is an English based creole with a decreasing amount of Irish/Gaelic in it through creeping anglicization. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: Does anyone know where I can find an audio example of this? YouTube, etc?
174.19.104.164 (talk) 20:19, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound Clips, Videos, etc? 

message: The following phrase communicates a negative bias against the anglicization of the language: "English Shelta is increasingly suffering from anglicization..." Undoubtedly many (myself included) perceive a real loss to human culture when languages (or parts of them) disappear. Nevertheless, the statement is no more neutral than the opposite "English Shelta increasingly benefits from anglicization."
Why not something more NPOV like "English Shelta shows increasing effects of anglicization"? It's simply not neutral to say that a language is "suffering"--and I think someone with a better handle on linguistics should write something neutral on the matter. It could even be the case (neutrally) that the speakers of the language are suffering because of the anglicization of the language. If so, explain how and cite a source.
Interesting article; my thanks to any and all who have worked on it.W.stanovsky (talk) 01:00, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's standard phrasing in linguistics in my experience. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:10, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV lacking in "Origins and history" section 

message: "...with heavy influences from Irish and Gaelic."
What is "Gaelic" here? Does it refer to the Irish language? If so, then "from Irish" would surely suffice.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.148.109.115 (talk) 14:12, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spotted, the word "and" didn't belong there. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:37, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The same applies to the following phrase further down, I suppose: "While Shelta is influenced by English grammar, it is also a mixture of Gaelic and Irish words as well." I wondered if the writer was thinking Gaelic referred to Scottish Gaelic? Or Irish to Irish English? Or did the word 'and' came here by some editing mistake? Bever (talk) 13:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish and Gaelic? 

message: In the article a version of the Lord's Prayer is given in "Old" Shelta (which it states is from about a century ago), "Current" Shelta, English and Irish. The "Old" and "New" Shelta versions look radically different, the newer one showing vastly more Anglicization. Could someone please provide more information on this seemingly massive change in such a short time? Seems like it would really add to the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.225.183 (talk) 21:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old versus Current Shelta 

message: The two examples of Shelta given in the section "Compatison texts", as well as the one in "Sample phrases" seem to be three different languages. The third one even uses a different orthography, with macrons (the phonology section does not mention Shelta as having any long vowels), carons and apostrophes. Which is the real version (the first two do sound a lot like made-up gobbledegook)? Are any of them the actual language?
This article could also do with some other improvements; such as adding something on consonants to the phonology section. The "Sample phrases" section could be done away with entirely; and be replaced with one on "Sample words"; which would probably be more useful as Shelta is supposed to use the same syntax and pronoun system as English (according to one version of the language given).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.166.150.53 (talk) 06:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three different languages 

message: The open para has this sentence "It is widely known as the Cant, to its native speakers in Ireland as Gammon and to the linguistic community as Shelta." Is "the linguistic community" here the community of speakers or the people in the "linguistics" community?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boaby (talk • contribs) 22:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening para unclear phrasing languages 

message: this page is full of inacuracies . whoever wrote it knows NOTHING about true gamin/cant . why not go to a Traveller association like Pavee Point and ask them for assistance . there is no point in me changing anything as it will only be changed back. The "linguistic" ppl who made this page dont know what they are talking about. its seriously irritating that its so wrong, and the fact im half traveller means i know what im talking about . it seems to me the page was made by "academics" who know nothing!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.107.71.4 (talk) 00:23, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone please edit this page properly.  

message: Doesn't "beoir" mean beer? And woman is "bean"?2605:E000:6392:7300:309D:704E:3AE7:2789 (talk) 23:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Orthography section

message: This request is for an external link to be added to this article.  The link is to material formerly at "alphalink.com.au" and "oldwelshbooks.net".  This material is a hyper-adapted extract from "The Secret Languages of Ireland", R. A. Stewart Macalister, Cambridge University Press 1937, Ch. VI. pp. 174-224.  It was developed by John Bear and was available on the web in the 1990s and early 2000s.  I consider it would complement the current archive.org link as it uses phonetic characters rather than an Anglicised approach.  A PDF file has been created from a web impression of the old site taken in 2007.  The material has been re-issued with the permission of John Bear’s widow.  It is currently located at: http://www.alivebeing.com/resources/PDF/Shelta.pdf.  However, some more suitable site may be found for it in the future, subject to interest.
124.176.51.36 (talk) 21:02, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Links to personal websites are not allowed. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 22:00, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

text: Create an account at Academia.edu and host it there, maybe. Lots of academics and such put up their pre-print articles, post-print extracts, course and lecture materials, etc. They generally prefer that only academics create an account there, but I set one up as an "independnet researcher" (i.e. avid Wikipedian) and they've never bugged me.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Addition of replacement for dead link

message: Man 178.167.189.251 (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Man 

message: This following source appears in the bibliography but is never used anywhere in the article:
* Also reissued by Armagh: Craobh Rua Books (1997).
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unused source