Talk:Hail Mary

message: What's with the "Japanese heresy" item? Not only is an explanation not given, but the link is grammatically incorrect.
:The basic information that might go here can be found, e.g. in the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia. The Ave Maria is not as old as you might think... Wetman 20:41, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese heresy

message: What is this about? It would be nice to have an explanation of why this is different from the standard English version. FreplySpang (talk) 13:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aquarian Age Hail Mary? 

message: Is it really necessary to have all those translations? And where will it end? How about cut it back to just the English - this is, after all the English Wikipedia. Maybe replace them with links to the same article in other languages. --StoatBringer 19:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Perhaps a Hail Mary (translations) page would be something someone can create?  Not too sure about the title of that page though. [Sorry for not being bold.] --Derek 22:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Went ahead and did it. Here's what I removed:===Other languages===
12.47.208.34 23:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many versions? 

message: Maybe he just meant you need money. This paragraph is confusing to me. I don't think the quote represents the concept. 
The phrase "Hail Marys" is also used as an anti-pietist pejorative for "prayer" without "good works" as in the following quote atrributed to Msgr. Paul Marcinkus, former president of the Vatican Bank, now living in Sun City, Arizona: "You can't run the Church on Hail Marys" (quoted in the May 25, 1986, Observer, London).
--Gbleem 18:22, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money or nothing. 

message: Is this for real? I've never heard of this.  I Googled it and still found nothing. --Elliskev 03:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Me too. I'm removing it until sourced. --Derek 18:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hail Mary martial arts attack 

message: There are more other meanings listed on the disambiguation page.  I propose moving any new content from this section there and deleting the Other Meanings section.
-- <anon>
: Very nice, but where is the dab page? You forgot to link to it, so now all is lost. Kim Bruning 07:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Meanings Redundant 

message: Hey, I'm wondering if there should be a translation of the Josquin poem somewhere on here.  Since I'm a classics major, I thought I'd write up a rough one.  This is a very rough translation, and Josquin's latin isn't that great (I'm used to Roman latin rather than medieval latin):
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord [is] with you, serene Virgin.
Hail to [her] whose pregancy,
full of sacred joy,
celestial, terrestrial,
full of new death (??).
Hail to [her] whose birth,
was our solemn observance,
that the rising light of the morning star
preceded the true sun.
Hail the holy humility,
fruitful without a man,
whose notification
was our salvation.
Hail the true virginity,
the immaculate chastity,
whose purity,
was our purification.
Hail to all those illustrious,
the angelic host,
whose assumption was,
our glory.
O Mother of God, remember me.  Amen.
NOTE: Feel free to make corrections or to delete it entirely- I thought it might be useful to have a translation on the talk page.  Oh, and I couldn't figure out what the heck he was tring to say with letitia, since it means "destruction" or "annihilation" in latin.  And poems about the Virgin Mary rarely have to do with annihilation... -Elizabennet 15:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the medieval spelling of laetitia, which means "joy". Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Josquin poem 

message: The section where the prayer is given in latin was incorrect in how it put latin "Jesus". Firstly, it has an I instead of a J, and you wrote the nominative instead the accusative (Jesus=NOM Jesum=ACC) Just thought I'd mention that (I fixed it).Thelordsavenger 23:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In Latin, the 'J' does NOT exist, it is usually replaced with an 'I' (for example, Iupiter instead of Jupiter). Pyrotics (talk) 16:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Latin

message: roman-catholic-prayers.com is a spamming, domain parking page thing. I guess the link should be repaired or removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.30.2 (talk) 18:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: Can we get a better audio for the Latin pronuciation? It is terribly inaccurate. InFairness (talk) 19:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ecclesiastical Latin Pronunciation  

message: I have edited the Syriac version of Hail Mary to what the words are really saying. The translation of 'Margoneetho' isn't a Syriac translation, but is the official English version. The real words of the Syriac Hail Mary are:
:Shlom leg bthulto Maryam malyath taybutho
:Hail Virgin Mary, full of Grace
:Moran 'ameg mbaragto at bneshe
:Our Lord is with thee, Blessed art Thou amongst women
:Wambaragu firo dabkarseg Moran Yeshu
:And blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Our Lord Jesus (there is no Christ written!)
:O qadishto Maryam yoldath Aloho
:O Saint Mary, Mother of God (There is no Bthulto/Virgin in this phrase)
:Saloy hlofayn hatoye, hosho wabsho'at mawtan amin
:pray for us sinners, now and at all times, and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Please keep this in mind. I pray this every day in Syriac, so I know what the words really say in Syriac. Thank you. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 14:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The article gives the official English version, of course, because this is the English Wikipedia.  Tb (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree with Tb. I think Latin in Ok, but to have 97 different languages when there are other Wikis out there makes no sense. History2007 (talk) 16:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I think you both don't understand me. When we talk about Hail Mary in the Syriac orthodox tradition, we need an English translation that equals the Syriac version. We do not need another traditional English version, because it would not be accurate, plus it would not make the Syriac version unique. Please view this website for a correct translation. It is in Dutch, but with a translator you will see that I am right. Greetings 80.56.5.133 (talk) 19:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I need to pray a few Hail Mary's before I understand that argument. History2007 (talk) 19:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we don't need the "Syriac version" anyhow?  Tb (talk) 19:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

text: The reference cited certainly seems to view the English presented that as really part of the Syriac orthodox tradition.  We don't need a Syriac text at all...Tb (talk) 19:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do we not need a Syriac text all the sudden? We have a Syriac version for a long time, why didn't anyone say before that the Syriac version could be deleted? With all due the respect, but I find it quite strange to delete the text now, after I tried my very best to make my point. I want the text to stay, with the correct version ofcourse. If someone wants to put the Dutch site as a reference, that is no problem by me. I am looking forward to your reply. (sorry for my poor English mr. History2007, but I am from the Netherlands) 80.56.5.133 (talk) 20:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I was not commenting on your English, but on your logic. Anyway, enough said, and I am against it. Now, please let me go and pray that this discussion ends soon. History2007 (talk) 20:20, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the English Wikipedia.  There is a reason (a small one) to have the English version the Syriac Orthodox church actually uses. There is not a reason to have a new translation of the Syriac words, which are neither the Syriac words, nor the English version the Syriac Orthodox church uses.  Tb (talk) 21:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Amen. History2007 (talk) 21:21, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Tb, I hope I can explain my point clearly. I don't want phonetic Syriac words to be in the article, if that is what you mean. What I want is to change to current English translation of the "Syriac tradition" on the article to what the words literal are saying. Because basicly, the current English translation of the Syriac text is equal to the Catholic church, although the words slighty differ in the real Syriac orthodox text. The current English text of the Syriac section is the official English (catholic) Hail Mary text. It is not the real en good translation of the Syriac orthodox prayer. All I want is to add 'Virgin' in the beginning en to delete 'Christ' because only then it will be equal to the Syriac original text. Please I hope that you understand what I am trying to say. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 21:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Okay, you know what? Never mind. Wikipedia is claiming to provide truthful information. If you want the current text to stay, then Wikipedia, at least the English Wikipedia, does not reflect correct information. All I wanted to do is to help. I know what the Syriac orthodox Church teaches. I know their doctrines, their prayers etc. because I am Syriac orthodox. The website that is being referred to in the article (sor.cua.edu) isn't even the official Syr. orth. Church website. Because one website shows an official Catholic version as a translation you presume that the Syriac church recommends this for use in English. I showed you another Syriac website that shows you exactly the opposite, yet you claim that the current text should not be edited. I don't care anymore. If you want that Wikipedia provides incorrect information, then it is fine by me. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 21:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

text: It doesn't show it "as a translation", but in any case, you seem to be saying that we have no actual text available (in English) with adequate sources.  That's a shame, but it's what is, so I deleted the section.  We certainly don't want to suggest that that version is official if it isn't.  I thought above you said it was official, when you said it is the official English version.  If it isn't we should certainly remove it.  Tb (talk) 22:50, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syriac Hail Mary 

message: The "Musical Settings" section doesn't specify what it means by that phrase, and so offers no help on the question of whether the cited settings use unique melodies or are just different vocal and instrumental arrangements of one or more melodies. I'm familiar only with the Schubert and Gounod settings and the version commonly sung by U.S. Catholics, and the Gounod uses a different melody. It would help if someone who knows more could clarify in the article the various melodies in use for the Ave Maria, and which of these melodies is used for each of the settings listed.
Billfalls (talk) 13:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musical settings 

message: The reference of the Roman Catholic Church using the Hail Mary needs to stay at "Catholic Church" to indicate that all the Catholic rites say the Hail Mary instead of just the Roman Rite.  It is inaccurate and biased to say that only the Roman Rite says the Hail Mary and the other rites don't.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.89.192 (talk) 22:40, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catholic Church and Hail Mary 

message: So I just watched the film Black Narcissus about a convent of Anglican nuns above Darjeeling, and at least two times in the film a nun or nuns prayed, "Hail Mary, the Lord is with thee", with the "full of grace" part missing. My question is, is this an Anglican thing or a Hollywood thing? If it's an Anglican thing, a few words about it in this article would be very appropriate. If it's a Hollywood thing, not so much. Rwflammang (talk) 02:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anglican version? 

message: The word grace is loaded with theological suggestions that do not seem to exist in Luke. The angel is calling her graceful, attractive, or even well endowed, I believe.75.21.26.125 (talk) 17:59, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grace? 

message: Here is the Latin version of the prayer with macrons for classical Latin pronunciation, which is as it states anachronistic. I have moved this from the article (rather than delete it outright) as I don't see what endless versions of the Hail Mary contribute to the article.
"A version with macrons follows for any who wish to recite the prayer with the restored classical pronunciation of Latin, although it would be anachronistic to do so since this pronunciation died out long before the prayer was composed (note anyway that since the accents of the previous version refer to stress accent, and the macrons to vowel length, there is no incompatibility between the two notations).
:Avē Marīa, grātiā plēna, Dominus tēcum. Benedicta tū in mulieribus, et benedictus frūctus ventris tuī, Iēsus.
:Sāncta Marīa, Māter Deī, ōrā prō nōbīs peccātōribus, nunc et in hōrā mortis nostrae. Āmēn." ... Mannanan51 (talk) 17:19, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macrons 

message: I've added the  tag to this section.  I'm not aware of any Anglican use of the Ave Maria - it's not mentioned in the definitive guide to Oxford Movement/High Anglican practice, "Knott's Ritual Notes" (on which we don't have an article), and I know of no other sources which might sanction the use of this particular prayer.  We should delete the references to Anglican use unless a source can be found. Tevildo (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anglican usage 

message: I was surprised to find no mention of the use of the prayer "Hail Mary" or, for that matter, the Rosary in the Episcopal Church.  Whether official or unofficial I know from childhood experience that Episcopalians say/use both. I have an anecdotal memory of an Episcopalian monk who often said the Rosary as a daily devoptional "to occupy the mind so that the spirit could go ane be with God."  Now if the label "Anglican" is meant to be inclusive of the Episcopal Church, shouldn't that little tidbit be mentioned in this article at least once?
John A.M. Darnell (johnamdarnell at gmail dot com).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD4A:CCD0:87D:23C1:9DA3:2F05 (talk) 09:28, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Episcopal Usage 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was surprised to see the claim that "Hail Mary" is used in Lutheran settings. In a lifetime of Lutheran church going I've never heard it used, never heard it taught, never heard it mentioned.
Luther himself may have spoken of it but it is not a part of any Lutheranism today I'm aware of.  Unless someone can cite a current usage it should be deleted.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.119.204.117 (talk) 06:11, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lutheran use? really? 

message: I object to the following paragraph:
"The first of the two passages from Saint Luke's Gospel is the greeting of the Angel Gabriel to Mary, originally written in Koine Greek. The opening word of greeting, χαῖρε, chaíre, here translated "Hail", literally has the meaning "rejoice" or "be glad". This was the normal greeting in the language in which Saint Luke's Gospel is written and continues to be used in the same sense in Modern Greek. Accordingly, both "Hail" and "Rejoice" are valid English translations of the word ("Hail" reflecting the Latin translation, and "Rejoice" reflecting the original Greek)."
As stated, "χαῖρε" is the standard greeting in Greek (classical, Koine and modern) and thus an accurate translation of that word should be recognizable as a greeting, which "rejoice" is not.
I checked a few translations of Luke 1:28 and they all agree with that (emphasis mine):https://www.bibleserver.com/text/KJV/Luke1
* KJV:  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
* ESV:  And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
* NIV:  The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
* NIRV: The angel greeted her and said, “The Lord has given you special favor. He is with you.”
It is correct that the literal meaning of "χαῖρε" is "rejoice" or "be glad", but that doesn't make it a valid translation when it is used as a greeting. As another example, if one had a Latin text in which someone greets another person with "salve!", then it would not be valid to render this as "be healthy!" although that is the literal meaning of the word and a valid translation of "salve" without any context.
Finally, the whole matter doesn't depend on an intermediate Latin translation (which cannot validate or invalidate the English translation of a Greek word); in fact, "Hail" can be readily found as translations for "χαῖρε" in dictionaries.http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=xaire&la=greek#lexicon
Bible translations can be a loaded subject, so I don't think one should make unsourced claims that disagree with both the existing translations and the basic principle that context matters for the valid translation of a word.--Letkhfan (talk) 02:55, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: A translator must repeatedly choose between a word-for-word and a modern-age equivalent translation. Scarcely anyone today would greet someone with "Hail" or "Greetings" any more than with "Rejoice" or "Be happy". Preference for a modern-age choice must be why one of the many English Bibles quoted here translates χαῖρε as "Good morning", and another as "Congratulations". "Rejoice" and its equivalents "Be happy", "Congratulations" are in fact used to translate the word in Luke 1:28.  Bealtainemí (talk) 13:47, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  about translating "χαῖρε" as "rejoice" 

message: The redirect Angelic Salutation has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Veverve (talk) 23:00, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Angelic Salutation]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]