Talk:Bede BD-4

message: "that gave even the tyro a good perspective on construction techniques"
Wazza? I see no other editors so it doesn't seem to be vandalism... what is a "tyro"?
Maury 14:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Maury, sorry for slagging vocabulary about; "Tyro": A beginner in learning something. FWIW Bzuk 15:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point on the performance capabilities- can you incorporate it into the text? (BTW, our friend in the Amelia Earhart controversy has resurfaced. She/he is a delight to watch, I should pull up a chair and get popcorn.) {:)} Bzuk 18:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on Bede manual, other "facts" 

message: 1) The aircraft shown in the upper right corner is not a BD-4.
2) In regards to the performance discussion: The values from the manual have been achieved by many builders. Others have gotten less performance. The reasons for the differences vary from aircraft to aircraft. The BD-4 is hardly "easily outperformed" by other designs with a smaller powerplant. As much as that would be appreciated by some.
3) Powerplant: up to 350HP have been installed and flown. Also, the most used engine is a IO-360. 
4) Maximum speed depends on the powerplant, but for a 234 mph you'd need more than 300HP. Refer to http://bd-4.org/specs.html for the 'book' values.
::If that isn't a BD-4? what is it? Curious? Bzuk 23:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what that photo shows, sorry. Looks a little like a Glasair Sportsman, but that's not it, either. Definitely is not a BD-4 though. Saltoricco 05:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It matches up with the latest BD-4 profile including the spats. I took the photo and had identified it at the time as a BD-4, but I have been known to be wrong... Bzuk 06:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The more I stare at the photo, the less sure I am... This is the latest incarnation of the Bede Bd-4. Compare it to the photo, there are some similarities but I can also see Glasair Sportsman there. Bzuk 06:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, as an experimental the BD-4 can be built as one pleases, i.e. mine is longer, higher has different wings and what not. The original BD-4 has a completely flat wind shield (although many use a curved one), no wing struts, no kink in the leading edge (but one on the horizontal stab.), the landing gear is straight and the fuselage is does not have any compound curves besides the cowling. All attributes of the plane in the picture. The one in the photo appears to have a composite airframe with metal wings. It does look familiar, I'd like to say I've seen it in Europe, but can't quite put my finger on it. Saltoricco 14:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, here's a solution; do you have a photo of your Bede BD-4 that can be accessed for the article? Upload the image file to replace the infobox photograph. IMHO Bzuk 15:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My aircraft is not yet flying, plus it is too modified to be representable. But when the author of the article contacted me to provide a photo I had sent in the one that is also seen, on the left side. That BD-4 is very close to stock. Saltoricco 16:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I am looking for another photo, in the meantime, I will replace the infobox photo with one that works. Bzuk 03:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo not a BD-4 

message: The Variants section says 2400# for both, but the Specs section says 2000#. Steve8394 (talk) 14:33, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out! . - Ahunt (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gross weight? 

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replies: text: - Ahunt (talk) 17:49, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The text indicates that the BD-4 was, in part, an outgrowth of the BD-1 and BD-2.  Arguably true about the BD-1, but no obvious relation to the BD-2, which (as I seem to recall) was just a Schweizer glider, that Bede put an engine into (for a transatlantic-crossing stunt). Correct me if I'm wrong; correct the text if I'm right. 
Frankly, the text in this article seems borderline promotional rather than strictly encyclopedic.  See articles on other homebuilts for comparaison. ~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 10:40, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The text actually says  It is unsourced, but probably not an unreasonable assertion that the experience gained working on the BD-1 and BD-2 projects allowed Bede to create the BD-4. It doesn't say that the design was actually derived from, or based upon those previous designs. - Ahunt (talk) 17:59, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  No obvious relation to the BD-2 

message: This article is corrupted by the abusive over-reliance on sources with a clear conflict-of-interest in this subject.  Too many of the assertions are made only with reference to materials from Bede, his affiliate enterprises, his cult-like fans and customers, and their support enterprises.  Very little of this material is from comparatively independent and neutral sources, in violation of WP:NPOV.  This article reads like a Bede advertisement.
The above-noted false statement that the BD-4 was the "first" kitplane -- twice repeated in the article prior to my edits this evening -- is an echo of notorious Bede's continuous stream of falsehoods, and exaggerated and deceptive promotions, harking back to the earliest days of his business activities.  There are two simple reasons that Jim Bede was THE most distrusted pariah in general aviation: chronic dishonesty and unreliability.Noland, David: "Why Did This Crazy Kitplane Kill So Many Pilots? ...engine woes and questionable financial moves...," March 3, 2020, Aviation History, copied on HistoryNet (May 20, 2020), (also copied at Scribd, as "Bede's Boondoggle,") retrieved June 24, 2023"Bede BD-5B," National Air and Space Museum, retrieved June 24, 2023Moore, Jim: "Micro: Little Jet, Big Impact," May 1, 2022, AOPA Pilot, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association,  retrieved June 24, 2023Parfit, Michael: "Build (and fly) it yourself; Thousands of hobbyists are putting together funnylooking airplanes in their garages—and some of them will actually get off the ground," December 5, 1976, New York Times, retrieved June 25, 2023
And it doesn't help that many of his very recklessly designed aircraft (and their derivatives) have terrible safety records, as well."AGAC AA-1." February 26, 2001, updated October 29, 2019, Aviation Consumer, retrieved June 24, 2023; notes: "The AA-1 started life in 1963 as the BD-1," and "The flight characteristics of the original airplane were, in general, quite bad," and "the AA-1 has a safety record much worse than average for this class of airplane.""Trouble Aloft Balks Pilot In Attempt to Circle Globe," (Bede BD-2), July 11, 1967, New York Times, retrieved June 25, 2023Kirkliauskaite, Kristina: "Bede BD-5: the nightmare of pilots," July 18, 2020, Aerotime.aero, retrieved June 24, 2023Mark, Rob: "Risky Business: Flying the BD-10...," May 1, 2022, AOPA Pilot - Turbine Edition, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, retrieved June 24, 2023 General aviation is fraught with mischief and dishonesty, but Bede raised it to an infamous art form.
Consequently, ANY article touching on him or his aircraft should be scrutinized, carefully, for falsehoods, and should NEVER rely solely on Bede's own communications (nor those of his affiliated enterprises, echo-chamber fan base, or their support enterprises) as sole supporting references -- EVER. For the facts about Bede and his planes, there are plenty of credible, reputable, independent major-media and industry-media sources to cite, instead. Use them, please.
~ Zxtxtxz (talk) 07:34, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Credibility of Article & Sources