Talk:German evacuation from Central and Eastern Europe

message: Shouldn't the article title be "Evacuation of German civilians at the end of World War II"?  The current title doesn't read well without the "the".  BrokenSphereMsg me 15:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may not have read well, but the article is not about "at the end", it is about "during the end". --Bejnar 17:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing a "the"?

message: The evacuation started in 1943, I wouldn't call that year the end.Xx236 10:07, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When the evacuation plans were drawn up the "writing was on the wall", the end was in sight, people knew which way the wind was blowing, no matter how you describe it, if there were evacuations, then it was during the end, self-defining. --Bejnar 14:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: No it isn't - it's a different aspect of the overall topic. Having these various articles with similar titles and subject matter (which are not always in concordance anyway) certainly makes the whole thing very confused, but "evacuation", "flight", "expulsion" and "atrocities" are different things, all of which occurred.--Kotniski (talk) 08:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  during the end of World War II ? 

message: The destription of the evacuation of East Prussia is complete rubbish. 
Any kind of preparations to evacuate the province were strictly forbidden. Even talking about any possible necessity to evacuate would have been accused as defeatism. Anybody thinking about such thing shows his doubts about the “Endsieg” ( final victory), which was a crime from Nazi POV. As a second reason Gauleiter Koch thougt that german soldiers would fight even harder knowing that the civilists are right behind the frontline, fighting for an empty country isn´t that important.
Only a very few people were evacuated from a small area with direct contact to the front in Autumn 1944, but definitely not to Pomerania and Saxony, mostly only inside East Prussia. Evacuation in July 1944 didn´t happen ( defeatism) AND DEFINITELY NOT 25 % of 2.6 MILLION. 
Most inhabitants left their homes just hours ( or even less) before the red army occupied their hometown and a significant number of them did NOT manage to escape over the Vistula Lagoon. 
The allegation that 80 % of the population had already left East Prussia is old propaganda, suggesting polish and russian people later on coming to East Prussia were resettling an uninhabited area.
And this is also obviously wrong for Pomerania, Silesia ( 85 % in 1945 !! nonsense ) and the New March ( 10 % german is absurd, have a look at the WIKI Neumark article: in 1924 the regional polish party got 1.900 votes out of 570.000 voters )(HerkusMonte (talk) 15:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: HerkusMonte, why do you think that there were no evacuation plans. How many people do you think were in East Prussia after Soviet Army entered ? Davydoff (talk) 11:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don´t doubt the evacuation PLANS, they were simply not realized. The source given for the evacuated population is mixing up plans and reality. The Nazi party and especially Gauleiter Erich Koch saw defeatism in every kind of preparation of an evacuation. From Nazi POV the Soviets will never manage to occupie East Prussia, the final victory was doubtlesss and the wunderwaffen will soon arrive. So evacuating East Prussia would have shown, that all this was a lie (as it was off course). Most people left their homes only hours before Red Army arrieved ( and for that reason a lot of them died, because they were just in the middle of the fightings).  All this has been described in so many reports, just as an example Marion Gräfin Dönhoff "Namen, die keiner mehr nennt", that I am a little bit astonished about the version of English WP. And the fact that people left their homes does not mean they managed to escape, many were overrun by the Red Army on their way to the west( descibed by Solzhenitsyn or Lev Kopelev). I can´t give exact numbers at the moment ( I´ll try to find some) but the assertion, that East Prussia was almost uninhabited is simply wrong.(HerkusMonte (talk) 13:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a bit confused. You wrote that "Any kind of preparations to evacuate the province were strictly forbidden". At the same time you say "I don´t doubt the evacuation PLANS, they were simply not realized". The plans are obviously part of the preparations to evacuate. So are you  saying that the evacuation plans were prepared illegally ? Davydoff (talk) 18:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A lot of rubbish 

message: I cut the following paragraph from the article:
----
New March
The evacuation of German population from New March was performed simultaneously with the evacuation of General Government and Greater Poland. Nitschke, Wysiedlenie ..., p. 54 The territories, although forming the largest province of the Third Reich, had only scarce German population of about 10%; the rest of the population was Polish. Podlasek, Wypędzenie ..., p. 92 Despite the proximity of the province to Oder, only 30-40% of the evacuated managed to cross the river in time. The evacuation orders did not concern the Polish population, which usually remained in place.
----
This paragraph is definitely not about New March, as New March was neither the greatest nor a "scarcely" German province. Could someone with access to the source please check what province the author actually did write about, correct and reinsert. My guess would be the areas attached to the East Prussian Gau following 1941, but I'm not sure. Skäpperöd (talk) 15:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could someone please take a look into the source given here - obvious mistake 

message: Xx236 (talk) 14:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Avalon links 

message: Xx236 (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evacuation from Wrocław/Breslau should be described 

message: German Wikipedia quotes the book only once regarding Bucarest, not Germany. The author is an architect and the book is biased.Xx236 (talk) 07:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kriegsverbrechen der alliierten Siegermächte biased 

message: According to 
the text should not be quoted here.Xx236 (talk) 06:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kriegsverbrechen ..." is unreliable 

message: Soviet propaganda was controlled by Soviet leaders. Selecting Ilya Ehrenburg is POV.Xx236 (talk) 06:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ilya Ehrenburg 

message: This article basically duplicates topics which are already discussed (generally in more detail) at Expulsion of Germans after World War II (which really covers the topics "Flight and expulsion of Germans during and after World War II", which I've proposed as a new title for it). We should either merge this article into this one, or else make this the main page for the events specifically during the later stages of the war (just summarizing them at the other article). But actually I don't see that it's particularly natural to divide this subject matter by the watershed of the end of the war, so I would suggest merging the pages (most of the info here is probably already included in the other article anyway).--Kotniski (talk) 08:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: *Five years have gone by since the above comment was posted by  who hasn't been active for the last three of those five years. I shouldn't be responding here but perhaps starting a new thread, but one thing needs clarification regardless. In order to avoid duplication per WP:FORK, this particular article should be devoted entirely to war years, and nothing else. The escape ahead of the front by design, including the western front, which seems to be missing. Content needs to be cut-and-pasted into here from the article Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50) which (by itself) is totally out of control. Poeticbent talk 17:12, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge or refactor

message: There is a dispute about this subject here Vistula%E2%80%93Oder_Offensive#Flight_of_ethnic_Germans. See Talk:Vistula%E2%80%93Oder_Offensive#Continue_to_disagree:_section_Flight_of_ethnic_Germans and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vistula%E2%80%93Oder_Offensive&curid=1634994&diff=671194044&oldid=671011227 dispute over this edit regarding flight and evacuation of Germans
Because this is the main article on this subject I am hoping for more eyes. Please make comments regarding the contents there ( Talk:Vistula%E2%80%93Oder_Offensive#Continue_to_disagree:_section_Flight_of_ethnic_Germans ), not here. Andries (talk) 07:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute in another article about this subject

message: The article presents only German POV:
*Many refugees were bilingual Slavs. There were also forced workers, e.g. French ones,  among them. 
*The article doesn't inform about the evacuation of prisoners and the massacres, e.g. the Massacre of Palmnicken/Yantarny.Oskar Schindler evacuated 1200 Jews. Xx236 (talk) 09:40, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: User:Poeticbent has moved the page twice within a few days. Don't you think a prior discussion would be extremely helpful to find an adequate name and move it after consensus has been reached? The current title ignores the improvised Flight, which was in fact a much more defining aspect of what happened compared to an organized "evacuation". HerkusMonte (talk) 09:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the Flight of the Germans is a better title, it matches the German sources that use "Die Flucht" --Woogie10w (talk) 14:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: "Evacuation" is a more general term. Unless someone wants to write only about spontaneous flight of civilians, which I don't think will find consensus. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:19, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Moving an article needs to be discussed and should be done after "consensus" was found, not vice versa. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:48, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Please cite the corresponding wikipedia guideline. - üser:Altenmann >t 17:04, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent moves 

message: Re . This is on page 25 of Beevor’s book (and a few other ones), as well as in numerous other sources, for example this one. Volunteer Marek  05:35, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ehrenburg