Talk:Responses of Germany and Japan to World War II crimes

message: To Jia.  This is the second time you disputed the neutrality of this issue.  Please list reasons and explain why they matter.  Revth 09:55, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV Issue

message: Why should this article be restricted to two of the axis members? Get-back-world-respect 17:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Austria and Italy are missing

message: This article is pretty much about japan. Only relevance to Germany is whether Japanese response is good enough in term of German response.  Why not chuck most content to Japanese War Crime section?  FWBOarticle 20:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess there should be more German content added from experts on the subject of Germany's response to World War II Crimes. Deiaemeth 03:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It won't work because German response almost has zero controversy.  FWBOarticle 08:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is pointless

message: Part of the article added on 12 February 2005 reads:
:"Japan has not come to a single conclusion actions of its military during and leading up to the war"
What's does "a single conclusion actions" mean? Also, in the section title "Korea (See also Korea under Japanese rule)", the (See also...) part should be italicised and placed one line below the section title. The section title "War Criminal And Yasukuni" should be renamed and lowercased to "War criminals and Yasukuni", or "War criminals and Yasukuni Shrine"—Tokek 16:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs some edits/clarification 

message: This article might be worthy, but it is confined a subject. It should be rewritten, merged or abandoned. Also needs citations. It's to controversial otherwise. --meatclerk 09:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem was that this was created with an agenda - look at the early versions. Subsequent editors tried to improve it, but it's turned out badly because of the narrow focus. I think it should simply be turned into an article about how the major powers of WWII have dealt with their war conduct. Does anyone else think it should be renamed? John Smith's 10:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we should just list for deletion. John Smith's 10:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Retagged to Essay-Entry

message: Although it might be true the origins of this article may be biased, I believe the subject is a valid one and one that needs to be properly addressed.
Somewhere up in this discussion the original writer of this article is criticized for their "poor knowledge formed by Taiwanese education" but that to me speaks of the ignorance and the condescendence of those in this discussion who obviously has no knowledge or more importantly INTEREST in this subject to make such over arching generalizations.
If anything the Taiwanese are the light weights when it comes to criticism of Japan in this respect.  I looked on the internet to see if there was even a bleep about the recent Yasukuni visit and I didn't find anything in Taiwan.  Frankly speaking I find it amazing that a Taiwanese person started this thread at all.  I would've thought something like this would have originated in mainland China or Korea.
But all that being besides the point, the fact is the assertions rather poorly made by the originator of this article is mostly true.  The problem with the article is not that the originator is biased, it's the fact that not enough detail and perspective is given as to WHY THINGS TURNED OUT DIFFERENTLY between Germany and Japan.  This I admit may have to do with the "poor Taiwanese education" but that is no reason to give up on the whole subject.  Truth is still truth even if it's biased if it indeed is TRUE.
As for the supposed "Japan Bashing" aspect of this article, I would hardly call it bashing someone if someone stepped on your foot and then decided to go around pretending like they never did or that you asked for you foot to be stomped or that the reason why they stepped on your foot justifies stepping on your foot and even morned for those who died gloriously while stepping on your foot and the feet of those around you...
I doubt the protestors of this article would hestiate to argue and write articles about it if Germany was prancing around like England attacked them and started WWII and them crossing the vichy line and marching down the Champs-Élysées and bombing London into shmitherines was to protect Europe from Asian invaders.  This is in effect what the right wing in Japan are doing RIGHT NOW after 60 years(!) but then again those of you protesting this wouldn't be all that interested in what people are interested 10,000 miles away.  The fact that the article showing Germany in a "good light" is rubbing people from England the wrong way some how seems viased to me too but what do I know right?
BUT ENOUGH WITH THIS LINE OF TALK!  It's not constructive and rather a waste of time.  We really should return to the issue of the WHY and not the WHAT.
I'm sure an extensive article could be written about it, I may even volunteer to do it, but in short the fact is this.  Even during WWII there were elements in Germany itself that did not go along with the Nazi party line just as I'm sure there must've been those in Japan who did not believe completely in what their nation was doing either. (To be completely honest I'm not so sure about Japanese in Japan not believing in their "Great Eastern Empire" rhetoric but I'll be sure to look in to it fully if I end up working on the article.)
Anyway, the difference is that in Germany the ones who took charge after the fall of the Nazis were, well, not Nazis.  Unfortunately in Japan the ones put in charge by the U.S. occupation force after the WWII were mostly rehash from the emperial Japanese government, I don't know McArthur was busy I guess, and the rule of their party, the LDP, continues even today. (Guess what party Goizumi is from.)
To me that goes a long way to explaining the why of the current situation not just of the retribution issue but the whole regional tension that continues to persist and will persist if not escalate.  Just look at the Yasukuni visit a few days ago. (Ironically that visit was the reason why I stumbled across this artice in the first place.) Is pointing out this historical fact "Japan bashing"?  I don't think so and I hope those of you asking this article to be omitted would get a little more interested and see the light.
Again, THIS ARTICLE SHOULD NOT BE DELETED but instead EXPANDED to better present the unfortunate historical circumstances in which the parties involved find themselves.  Truth should never be sacrificed in the name of "unbiased-ness".  Sometimes the champions of "unbiased-ness" are the ones trying to sway opinion to bury the truth which is not in their favor.
pixelminer 08/17/2006
:Most of the discussion about Japanese war crimes and subsequent reactions already exists at the Japanese war crimes page. There is no need for it to be repeated here in such a pointless and POV comparison with Germany. John Smith's 17:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is a very valid topic and is different from Japanese war crimes. There is not another pages addressing most of the issues brought up by this page. RevolverOcelotX
It's only pointless, if you like to delete and censor.  In fact, post war attitudes and repercussions have not been discussed NEARLY enough for the millions that suffered.  Arguments for its deletion is based on ignorance.  If anything, the article title should be renamed to reflect its true theme of discussing government, cultural, and social changes to the Axis powers after WWII.  One example could be how Volkswagon gave an official apolgy and a compensation fund for its involment of running Nazi slave labor factories.  Where as, Mitsubishi corp. would just differ the issue to the government.  If you can imagine the Chancellor of Germany driving his entourage to Himmler's grave for the sake of honoring his sacrifice to Germany, I would think, a few PPL would object.  Lighten up, this page just needs more stuff.
Hd8888 21:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs to be expanded but certainly not deleted. 

message: The article was redirected as a result of the discussions. The discussions can be read here-> Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Responses_of_Germany_and_Japan_to_World_War_II_crimes. --meatclerk 07:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfD Results Aug. 2006