Talk:Jeepers Creepers (2001 film)

message: # An alternate ending in which the final shot in the theatrical ending was more of a subtle insinuation than a graphic display of what happened.
Could somebody please rewrite this line? Is the extended ending more or less explicit than the original theatrical release ending? I'd do it myself, but I don't know which one showed more. GutterMonkey 06:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for clarification 

message: This article is too short and has several important sections that remain underdeveloped. The production section is way too short, consisting of a single sentence and should be expanded in more detail. The Reception section is also too short and needs more reviews from notable critics added to it. The home media section is improperly developed and should be rewritten, this section is also unsourced and should be given citations for its information. All of these changes and additions need to occur in order for this article to meet Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards of a good article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:33, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article is incomplete and has several sections that need to be expanded in more detail than what they currently are.
The production section is too short and needs to be expanded in far more detail with information on the film's development, casting, filming, and design added to the article with appropriate citations given for its information. The reception section is also too  short and needs more reviews from notable critics added to it as well (with the appropriate citations). There is also no information on the film's home media releases which needs to be added to the article as well. This article could be GA Status worthy if enough attention was given to it and all the things listed above done so that it meets Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards of a well developed and Properly sourced article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 15:23, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: * After 4 years of entering your request, I have rewritten and expanded the article, tackling all of your points listed above. Thank you for suggesting this, since it literally inspired me to rewatch the movie, which made me decide to rewrite the entire article to nominate it for GA-status. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 02:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: Does anyone have any information why Germany is featured everywhere as a country of production alongside USA?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.234.170 (talk) 02:35, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: * Jeepers Creepers was produced by the German companies Cinerenta-Cinebeta and Cinerenta Medienbeteiligungs KG, therefore making it a German film. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 02:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

text: I've added a source to back this up here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:30, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany 

message: I've removed the mystery genre on the lead intro. Although it was sourced, it was sourced to a Box office status report. It's not clear if the film was watched or how genre was intepreted here, so you can find several more specific sources within. Also, throughout the article the film is referred to a horror film predominantly, so we should have the lead of the article reflect what is in the prose as that's standard wikipedia stuff. I'm open to more thoughts on this.Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:26, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The new New York Times review does add the genre, but I feel my point stands. We should probably look around instead of just hunting and pecking and choosing genres and get the overall consensus. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: *Keep both genres - Jeepers Creepers has been called a mystery film by various critics (even RT!) and it being a monster movie should be mentioned per WP:FILMLEAD. I see no problems with having three obvious genres in the first sentence of the article. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 20:19, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I"m not really deeming this down to a vote , I'm bringing it up to discuss. Rotten Tomatoes as a genre source sounds weak as it's not clear how information on genre is gathered. It's not fair for readers. I'd lean towards going by prose by critics who have read the film or academics who have studies the genre. Per WP:SUBJECTIVE, things like genre are subjective. And per the standards of wikipedia, the genre of the film belonging to horror far outweighs any mention of mystery. As for your suggestion of following WP:FILMLEAD]], I'm actually going forward with this as it states "primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified." In this case, from what I've said above, that appears to be horror and not the other genres you mentioned. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  You just said this was for a discussion, so taking action now would be hypocritical. The film is clearly a horror movie as much as it is a mystery. Including the fact that it was a monster movie is also obvious to do. WP:FILMLEAD says to include all genres, or sub-genre. which have been verified, and "mystery-horror monster" have all been verified by various critics. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 21:01, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Film lead doesn't say to include all genres, it says to include the primary genre. So what you are proposing would be incorrect. I'll take a bit to look up what sources are saying. But to be clear and fair, let's take it from sources that actually have been proven to see the film (i.e: let's not take it from databases if possible). I believe that's the most proper way to handle it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:03, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: I'm always in favour of keeping genres in the lead as simple as possible - we have the rest of the lead to talk about other any genre elements that need to be considered - and it looks like "horror" is the primary genre mentioned by sources here...? Popcornfud (talk) 22:46, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: *Yet "mystery" is still named by various critics and moviegoers. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 22:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Viewers point of view doesn't really matter on wikipedia so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up. I've shown the rules (and some that you have brought up) of why including niche genres that aren't really represented here. I'll need some actual backing from you on this genre that's not just database sources. Otherwise, It's probably best to drop it based on the statements above. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are some sources: . Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 23:38, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: There's another one for Horror. And , you should quote what you are trying to say instead of dumping sources on us. From your NYT article it says "With "Jeepers Creepers 2," writer-director Victor Salva had the opportunity either to answer some of these questions, or at least to deepen the mystery and anxiety that surrounds them.". Now, the mystery term does not seem to be talking about the film belonging to the genre or anything, and even worse, it's talking about Jeepers Creepers 2. Not this film. The Chicago Tribune article appears to be repeat of this same story so that nix's that one. Your screen rant source has no attributed author so it doesn't even suggest how the genre is sourced or if anyone associated with that has seen the film. The Herald Tribune article says "Still, that modestly budgeted horror movie was marked by certain dollops of style, mystery and dark foreboding." so it calls it a horror film again and just uses the term mystery in a way that doesn't really sound like they are describing the genre. I'm sorry, but you aren't really making any headway with your argument here. That's why I didn't want to make it a vote as it's not addressing the issues I've brought up. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

text: As there has not been a lot of convincing arguments against WP:BALANCE and the evidence we have provided above (alternative suggestions appear to be referring to other films or have been very minimal in comparison to other genres), I suggest we move forward with just having this labeled as a straight horror film in the lead. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:13, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No argument here. DonIago (talk) 14:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: One approach I'd like to see taken is a "Genre classifications" section for films that don't have a straightforward label. I admit I have not undertaken it yet, but I'd like to for something like Fight Club, which lacks a genre in the opening sentence due to no predominant genre. Such a section would allow a film to be defined stylistically, which isn't really done in other sections. Food for thought. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 18:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree , and I've done that in some articles where genre is a little less cut and dry. I've done that on a few articles in the past (Drug War (where someone has already come in and added Rotten Tomatoes link to give it genre *grumble grumble*), Blood and Black Lace, The Record, etc.). I've tried adding some discussion on the film The Lighthouse on its talk page, but nobody has really responded to it. As for Fight Club, It's an article I don't have on my watch list but I can only imagine how often people jump in to add what they believe are "obvious" genres to it. :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Mystery

message: You could also probably drop the extraneous genre of "monster movie" to the lead as it's already clear in the very next sentence that the film is a monster movie with it mention of a "demonic creature" as "It stars Gina Philips and Justin Long as a pair of siblings who are pursued by a demonic creature and mysterious serial killer known as the Creeper portrayed by Jonathan Breck. " Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: *Keep both genres - Jeepers Creepers has been called a mystery film by various critics (even RT!) and it being a monster movie should be mentioned per WP:FILMLEAD. I see no problems with having three obvious genres in the first sentence of the article. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 20:19, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I"m not really deeming this down to a vote , I'm bringing it up to discuss. Rotten Tomatoes as a genre source sounds weak as it's not clear how information on genre is gathered. It's not fair for readers. I'd lean towards going by prose by critics who have read the film or academics who have studies the genre. Per WP:SUBJECTIVE, things like genre are subjective. And per the standards of wikipedia, the genre of the film belonging to horror far outweighs any mention of mystery. As for your suggestion of following WP:FILMLEAD]], I'm actually going forward with this as it states "primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified." In this case, from what I've said above, that appears to be horror and not the other genres you mentioned. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  You just said this was for a discussion, so taking action now would be hypocritical. The film is clearly a horror movie as much as it is a mystery. Including the fact that it was a monster movie is also obvious to do. WP:FILMLEAD says to include all genres, or sub-genre. which have been verified, and "mystery-horror monster" have all been verified by various critics. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 21:01, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Film lead doesn't say to include all genres, it says to include the primary genre. So what you are proposing would be incorrect. I'll take a bit to look up what sources are saying. But to be clear and fair, let's take it from sources that actually have been proven to see the film (i.e: let's not take it from databases if possible). I believe that's the most proper way to handle it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:03, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: I'm always in favour of keeping genres in the lead as simple as possible - we have the rest of the lead to talk about other any genre elements that need to be considered - and it looks like "horror" is the primary genre mentioned by sources here...? Popcornfud (talk) 22:46, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: *Yet "mystery" is still named by various critics and moviegoers. Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 22:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Viewers point of view doesn't really matter on wikipedia so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up. I've shown the rules (and some that you have brought up) of why including niche genres that aren't really represented here. I'll need some actual backing from you on this genre that's not just database sources. Otherwise, It's probably best to drop it based on the statements above. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are some sources: . Some Dude From North Carolinawanna talk? 23:38, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

text: There's another one for Horror. And , you should quote what you are trying to say instead of dumping sources on us. From your NYT article it says "With "Jeepers Creepers 2," writer-director Victor Salva had the opportunity either to answer some of these questions, or at least to deepen the mystery and anxiety that surrounds them.". Now, the mystery term does not seem to be talking about the film belonging to the genre or anything, and even worse, it's talking about Jeepers Creepers 2. Not this film. The Chicago Tribune article appears to be repeat of this same story so that nix's that one. Your screen rant source has no attributed author so it doesn't even suggest how the genre is sourced or if anyone associated with that has seen the film. The Herald Tribune article says "Still, that modestly budgeted horror movie was marked by certain dollops of style, mystery and dark foreboding." so it calls it a horror film again and just uses the term mystery in a way that doesn't really sound like they are describing the genre. I'm sorry, but you aren't really making any headway with your argument here. That's why I didn't want to make it a vote as it's not addressing the issues I've brought up. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

text: As there has not been a lot of convincing arguments against WP:BALANCE and the evidence we have provided above (alternative suggestions appear to be referring to other films or have been very minimal in comparison to other genres), I suggest we move forward with just having this labeled as a straight horror film in the lead. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:13, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No argument here. DonIago (talk) 14:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: One approach I'd like to see taken is a "Genre classifications" section for films that don't have a straightforward label. I admit I have not undertaken it yet, but I'd like to for something like Fight Club, which lacks a genre in the opening sentence due to no predominant genre. Such a section would allow a film to be defined stylistically, which isn't really done in other sections. Food for thought. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 18:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree , and I've done that in some articles where genre is a little less cut and dry. I've done that on a few articles in the past (Drug War (where someone has already come in and added Rotten Tomatoes link to give it genre *grumble grumble*), Blood and Black Lace, The Record, etc.). I've tried adding some discussion on the film The Lighthouse on its talk page, but nobody has really responded to it. As for Fight Club, It's an article I don't have on my watch list but I can only imagine how often people jump in to add what they believe are "obvious" genres to it. :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Monster movie