Wikipedia talk:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point

message: See the New York Book Review article here:  SarahStierch (talk) 02:39, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  press mention 

message: * oppose — cyclops is not not some sort of project. Arguably, Odysseus did IAR, which is commendable. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:39, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Tell that to Polyphemus!  But fair enough, point taken.  KDS4444Talk 14:18, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odysseus illustration 

message: Addition of a new example to this guideline is discussed at WP:VPP#Requesting closing statements for archived discussions (subsection: "Rationale") --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:03, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding new example 

message: WP:NOTPOINTY points out that  However, this isn't the most common misconception about this page, which would be this part: . Basically, I believe that the page's scope is much smaller than simply "disrupting Wikipedia" - it's quite possible and common for people to "disrupt Wikipedia to make a point" without "making edits with which they do not actually agree". In fact, the vast majority of the cases I've seen involving the improper invocation of WP:POINT are reactions to impolite (of course, to various degrees depending on the editor) edits by someone with whom the editor disagrees - often uncivil, sometimes disruptive, and rarely ever specifically what's described in this page - doing something opposite to what they believe.
As the talk archives show, chronic misuse (and potentially abuse) of this page has been noted since at least 2005. I believe that the misapplication arises for two connected reasons: 1) people don't read pages closely, relying on the given shortcuts, title, and/or nutshell; and 2) the shortcuts, title, and nutshell do not adequately describe the behavior outlined in this page. Now, for the shortcuts, we can't do anything, since they're so ingrained in the culture here, but the other two we can. I think that part of the reason the title is so broad is because the content now at WP:GAME and WP:IDHT was once here; they've now been moved to other pages. However, this leaves us with a title which overreaches the scope of the page - something noted in the talk page sections above (from 2010). Since this page is so heavily known, would it be a good idea to move it to a more descriptive title? I feel like it would cause some hand-wringing, deserved or not. And, there would still have to be a different title to move to. I don't know, but I feel like in its current state, this is not working. ansh666 10:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some issues with this page and its misuse 

message: "Practically speaking, it is impossible for Wikipedia to be 100 percent consistent, and its rules will therefore never be perfect."
The funny thing about that is, if you are on the wrong side of the rule, they will say, "The rule says such-and-such! We need to apply the rule!" If you argue, "We don't need to apply the rule consistently; the rule isn't perfect," they'll say, "If you don't like the rules, you can leave Wikipedia and post your content elsewhere. The door's that way."
But if you try to apply the rules consistently, they hit you with, "Practically speaking, it is impossible for Wikipedia to be 100 percent consistent, and its rules will therefore never be perfect." So basically, it's another way of saying, "We do whatever we want, and justify it however we want, and it's the prerogative of the users who make up the 'rough consensus' to be as consistent or inconsistent as they want."
As I was pointing out at Wikipedia:Don't just cite a page of rules; cite the relevant part of the rule and explain how it applies to the specific situation, people will often say, "Go read WP:XYZ." Yet, if you want to do something POINTy, you can't just say, "Go read WP:XYZ"; you have to respect the community's prerogative to ignore the rules as it sees fit. If you, the individual editor, enforce the rules consistently, you're being disruptive; on the other hand, if you, the individual editor, disobey the rules, you're also being disruptive.
So really, disruption just means going against the flow; it means ignoring the complexities of all the self-contradictory ways in which the wind is blowing. It means exposing hypocrisy and trying to do something about it unilaterally.
It's kind of like how in the U.S., if you break the law, you can't argue to the cop or the judge, "I should be allowed to break this law, because the laws aren't perfect." But if the government breaks the Constitution, and you bring this up, they'll say that it would be impractical to follow the Constitution to the letter. For example, there are two parts of the Constitution that say that the trial of "all crimes" or "all criminal prosecutions" shall be by jury, but in misdemeanor cases, it's routine, and the default, for the case to be heard by a judge instead.
So, those in authority, or in the majority, cite the importance of the rule of law when it suits them, saying that without it, we'd have anarchy, tyranny, etc. Yet, when it doesn't suit them, they cite the need for flexibility, practicality, etc. St. claires fire (talk) 15:35, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This doctrine is used for nothing more than people with power (mods, admins etc) over other pages, groups or users to get away with hypocrisy and ride roughshod over any opposition by labelling their other side as disruptive'. It's a shortcut cheat to develop their own consensus by banning their opponents from the discussion. It really should be deleted and sent into oblivion. Macktheknifeau (talk) 08:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consistency and perfection 

message: This article basically seems like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but without the handy note that using the "other stuff" argument that that argument should actually be taken serious if applicable (though many "professional" editors might still use that argument to dismiss what the page they themselves link to assesses), anyhow these pages are so similar that they could be merged, or at-least this page could become a mere paragraph, the WP:RULES should not become too repetitive.
--42.112.158.223 (talk) 03:17, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  this Vs. [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]]. 

message: "If someone nominates one of your favorite articles for deletion...
do explain why the subject meets inclusion criteria, providing reliable sources to support your assertion.
do not nominate another similar article for deletion, giving the same rationale.
" 
Why is this unacceptable behavior. If an article doesn't meet some kind of community established guideline. Shouldn't you take action to police said guidelines if another article doesn't meet them.--Prisencolin (talk) 03:11, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: A tad late, but to any future readers, this would hardly be an insane response. In fact, it's functionally what we actually use as a rebuttal to Other Stuff Exists. Nosebagbear (talk) 09:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't understand, are you saying that you should nominate other categories to prove a point?--Prisencolin (talk) 20:08, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No  - if you're nominating other articles (or categories etc) to make a point on your AfD then that would be concerning, however if you felt your article would be notable because it was very similar to another, and it got deleted, that could well be a strong indication that the other article is also not notable. Nosebagbear (talk) 20:12, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first rationale 

message: perhaps we could add No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man to the see also section, seeing as both articles have similar points Batmilk 🦇 (talk) 16:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That page is reddit tier cringe... Macktheknifeau (talk) 13:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man 

message: Seems like it is made redundant by the first sentence of the guideline itself. Not every possible misinterpretation of a guideline needs to be addressed within it. Remsense诉 02:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of "important point" section