Talk:Mountain Meadows Massacre/Archive 12

message: And oh my is this an awful article.  
Out of the first 3850 words, the article would greatly benefit by being reduced to fewer than 1250 words.    It is seriously bloated with cruft and tripe. --Blue Tie 05:24, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Just read it again

message: Sorry to bring this up again but here goes. WHAT is the relevance of mentioning the day of the week that this event took place, specifically in the LEAD sentence. When I first saw this, it struck me as strange and made me wonder what the relevance of that day (Friday) was to the massacre. If it has a relevance, please flesh it out. If not, please remove it from the LEAD. Do we really need to get bogged down by this again?? Anyways, thanks as always, --Tom 19:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't feel that you are sorry in the slightest to bring this up again. What other parts of this article have you been concerned with? It seems to be almost an obsession of yours here. It does not detract from the article, it adds a fact to the article and it contributes to the flow in reading the article. Duke53 | Talk 19:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Funny how you absolutely REFUSE to anwser the question. It does detract from the article in the fasion I mentioned above. It made me curious when I first read the article and to date my question has not been answered since it appears not to have ANY relevance what so ever. I only wish it had so we/err I could let this go. I edit mostly lead sentences of bios to confirm to wp:mosbio, specifically nationality since alot of folks have agendas for editing these for ethnic pride/predjudice reasons. This article is on my watch list. Now I have tried my best to answer you, would you like to answer my questions. What is the significance of mentioning this "fact" and why are you so hell bent on including it?? --Tom 19:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Absolutely! I have NO problem with mentioning the day of the week LATER in the article as it seems that this "event" occured over a number of days leading up to the massacre on Friday. As mentioned earlier by me, when I saw it mentioned in the lead, I thought it might have some religious significance or something that made me curious. If it does/has a significance than it should go in the lead. Some other articles about historic events mention the day of the week in the LEAD IF, BIG IF, its relevant. Anyways, thanks for entertaining my anal retentive nature :) Cheers! --Tom 12:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I actually think it makes sense to include the day of the week later in the article - in a section about the week's events, the initial "pauiute" attack on Monday, the whites spotted on tuesday or wednesday, etc. we could pull from rich turley's research for a citation of the week's events. they are missing as it is. I don't think it needs to be in the lead, but I do agree with Duke53 that it should be included somewhere in the article. -Visorstuff 20:37, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Day of the week is irrelevant in lead. Incidentally, the leaves on the trees were green at the time.  This is a true fact, so perhaps some editors might want to include it as well.  But I would side with those who would suggest it was irrelevant to the topic.  However, as visor suggests above, if there is some sort of time-line or schedule later on, it would be appropriate to include it there because at that point it would be relevant. --Blue Tie 17:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed "Friday' from the lead since an anon ip with two edits added it. It seems that we have SOME concensus to remove mention of the day of the week from the LEAD only since it is not relevant to the LEAD?--Tom 17:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "<I>I removed "Friday' from the lead since an anon ip with two edits added it</I>". Does the number of edits done by an individual add weight to their edits? Duke53 | Talk 17:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is that an anon ip makes his ONLY edit to join an edit war?? Oh course that should raise some reg flags. Anyways, can we try to just stick to working this out? Is there ANY compromise you can suggest or does "Friday" have to be in the LEAD sentence? --Tom 17:44, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  When I raised the question of anonymous editors making THEIR ONLY EDITS to Undergarment and Temple garment (<I>usually they just deleted material, without comment</i>) I was told that it didn't matter. But I guess it can be raised in this case. :) Duke53 | Talk 17:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well who ever told you that, I would disagree with them. Anony ips that only edit in regards to reverting during a disagreement should cause concern and be discounted it seems to me. Anyways, at least we agree about that :)?? --Tom 17:53, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An(<I>other</i>) example of what I described above. Duke53 | Talk 17:53, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Okay, Solomon, nice timing for your threat ...after he removed the word from the article. Kind of puts one of us behind the eightball, doesn't it? Duke53 | Talk 17:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: p.s. I just discovered a new definition for 'compromise': I will keep deleting an item until I get my way. Duke53 | Talk 17:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am still not sure if Duke has agreed to not putting it in the lead, but entering the information later in the article.  I request that no one makes any more edits to that sentence until an agreement has been met. I haven't read the article, I assume that Alanyst's last edit remains. If necessary Duke change it back, everyone else don't edit it again until we come to terms. This is a minor issue and I hope we don't have to vote on something so silly, but this is tiresome and unproductive. --Storm Rider (talk) 19:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: anon ip just added back with edit summary"more is better" or sonething to that effect. I not going to revert it now since analyst and I have been discussing this on my page and I said I wouldn't revert. Anyways, cheers!--Tom 20:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Friday in the LEAD sentence