Talk:Arsenal F.C./Archive 2

message: User:Jimmmmmmmmm recently replaced the simple squad representation with a much larger table. I have reverted this edit, and believe it should stay the way it is, for the following reasons:
*The table takes up more than twice the space on the screen and adds unnecessary visual clutter, with table borders and backgrounds etc.
*The simple squad representation uses the Template:Football squad player template, which several Wikipedians have put a lot of effort into propagating. It has been well discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football and achieves a means a standardising squad representation across all pages. This change of format departs from this standard, was entirely arbitrary and done without warning.
*The extra information (date joined, previous club) in the new format is not necessary. This is a page about Arsenal, after all. Individual players have their own pages - if a user wants to find out the previous club(s) e.g. Dennis Bergkamp has played for, they will go to the Dennis Bergkamp page, not this one.
*The format did not cater for players out on loan.
*The date given for "joining the club" was inconistent - players who had joined the club as a youth were given the date of their debut, while players who had signed from elsewhere were given the date of their contract signing.
*In the recent peer review and featured article candidate votes for this page, no demand to change to the alternative format was made.
*Neither the BBC, UEFA, the Premier League nor Arsenal FC clutter their squad lists with this extra information, so why should Wikipedia? Qwghlm 10:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Squad templates 

message: This article, being about a British football club, is written in British English (following the recommendation by the Manual of Style on the relevant variety of English to use in an article). As a result, it uses the discretionary plural, namely that collective nouns such as club and team can be used in either the singular or the plural. Generally, in British English media, sporting teams are referred to in the plural (as a comparison, see how the BBC website usually uses the phrase "Arsenal are" rather than "Arsenal is" when directly referring to the club). Consequently, this article refers to the club in the plural throughout, for consistency's sake.
This is notably different from American English, where sporting teams are always referred to in the singular. However, in British English it is perfectly grammatically correct to use the plural and this should be borne in mind before jumping to conclusions about inappropriate subject/verb agreement. Qwghlm 02:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can choose between using singular or plural in British English, and you only can use singular in American English, why don't use singular so it would be correct in both American and British English? Besides, to me, who is not British but have learnt British English in school, it looks very strange and wrong when the article says "Arsenal F.C. ARE a (not two) football club". If the article used the singular form it would cause less confusion, and it would be correct in both forms of English. Anyone agree? Arnemann 23:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because in British English football teams use the plural far more than the singular. Read any British newspaper, or the BBC website, or clubs' own websites and you'll see it is nearly always preferred for sporting teams. Therefore for consistency with common usage, the plural is preferred here as well. Qwghlm 23:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the singular/plural 

message: "In the summer of 2006, the club will move to the new 60,000-seater Emirates Stadium in nearby Ashburton Grove."
This sentence is ambiguous. Are they moving in January, February, June, July, August or December? This sentence cannot stand on its own as an encyclopedia article, because one must do extra research to discover that (1) Arsenal is a club in Britain, (2) Britain is in the Northern Hemisphere, and (3) the Northern Hemisphere has summer in the middle of the year. It would be better to rephrase this to remove the ambiguity.
Possible rewordings:
* "Beginning in the 2006/7 season, Arsenal will play their home games at the new 60,000-seater Emirates Stadium in nearby Ashburton Grove."
* "In (month) 2006, the club ... "
B.d.mills 05:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made it August 2006, which is when the club's official site has said the move will take place . Qwghlm 08:39, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguous seasonal reference 

message: This article is well done, and there are several good pictures . . . but NO action shots.  Why aren't there any photos of an Arsenal match in progress? - Jersyko talk 14:26, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because obtaining pictures like that with acceptable copyrights is easier said than done. →Raul654 22:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Generally, pictures taken by spectators from the stands at any sporting event are of a much lesser quality than professionally taken ones, thanks to the inferiority of equipment and the lesser view afforded to ordinary spectators. I used to take a camera to Arsenal matches but no longer do for this reason. I did scour Flickr for any photos of the right quality and licensing conditions when preparing this article for FA status, but did not find any. Qwghlm 00:06, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Why was there a picture of a penis on the Arsenal webpage?? & just this moment it changed back to normaL?? (preceding unsigned comment by 194.201.133.195 (talk • contribs) 11:04, November 8, 2005)
:Sometimes certain immature so-and-soes delight in trying to disrupt Wikipedia by adding nonsense, irrelevant content, or, increasingly, penises.  It's a side-effect of anyone being able to edit.  There are a number of people constantly watching Wikipedia for any attempts to harm articles (we call it "vandalism"), which is why it was so quickly reverted to the normal version. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 11:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Debates over vandalism and anonymous contributions are not exactly new - the Village pump contains many other ideas and discussions - it would be better to take discussion of such matters over there. Qwghlm 13:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The business of Wenger resigning and Henry moving to Spurs was not Vandalism but based on faulty infrmation, I shalln't say from where but I removed it instantly. Celtmist 27-11-05
I'm getting really annoyed when I go on the Arsenal page I see something like "Man U rule" or "Arsenal are sh*t", can something be done to stop so much vandalism? arsenalwwerulz 12:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Sure. Revert it yourself. The article doesn't experience enough vandalism to warrant semi-protection. howcheng  {chat} 23:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: *why aren't there any pictures of Arsenal players in their player pages (articles)
*any one pls add some nice pics there!
*even thierry henry didn't had a pic of him in his page, that's not nice coz he's one of the greatest players around
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by WikipedianDog (talk • contribs) 10:37, January 18, 2006.
:Pictures would be nice in articles about players, but we would have to find ones that conform to Wikipedia's copyright policy, rather than ones taken from other websites; these are generally thin on the ground. Qwghlm 13:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ADD SOME PICTURES TO PLAYER PROFILES 

message: is it reasonable to say that they are also widely refered to as 'The Gooners' and 'The Arse'?
I hear this in and around Highbury every week.
:As a Spurs fan I would say yes but as a Wikipedia editor the correct answer would have to be no (NPOV). CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's kind of alluded to in the "Supporters" section (The Gooners and Up the Arse! fanzines). As an Arsenal supporter, I would still say yes but I also thought the "Chelski" reference I added to Chelsea F.C. was valid but it looks like it got wiped. howcheng  {chat} 00:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Gooner" more often refers to a supporter of the club rather than the club or players themselves, I would say. As for "the Arse" - well, it's often pejorative when used by a rival supporter but a badge of pride when used by an Arsenal supporter - that said, some Arsenal supporters don't like it while others revel in it. Qwghlm 00:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  other aliases?? 

message: Should he be listed as a player? He has never been announcedby the club as an Arsenal player, or as a player out on loan, although refenences on FIFA's site claim he is an Arsenal player? Mexican club Guadalajara have confirmed that he is an Arsenal player. Some rumours claim he has gone straight to Celta Vigo.Gooner14 22:24, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Plenty of different news sources seem to corroborate he is registered with Arsenal, even if he is being farmed out to Celta at the moment.     . It is strange the club haven't mentioned him, though. If you want to remove him from the squad list for lack of evidence then go ahead, but I think FIFA, Sky Sports and the BBC are all authoritative enough sources. Qwghlm 00:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly the majority of evidence points to him being at the club, but most of it does seem to stem from his former club reporting he had left. It's odd that Arsenal haven't announced it, but as we have seen recently with Traroe he was briefly announced in the summer, removed from the offical site after being on for a few days, yet he only played last night. I'll leave it on if your happy.Gooner14 12:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like he is at Celta, no sign of a loan.Gooner14 16:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a loan. See . I'll restore him to the list.  howcheng  {chat} 20:46, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He's a Celta player [] He has a 5 year contract with Celta, with Arsenal having the option to buy him in 2008. In my opinion that makes him a Celta player, not an Arsenal player. Gooner14 10:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Remember that the criteria is "verifiability, not truth." If the general opinion is that Arseweb can be considered a reliable source, then we should consider him a Celta player. Otherwise, we need to go with what Reuters says. howcheng  {chat} 16:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arseweb is one of the longest-running and well-maintained Arsenal fan sites. Given that (1) Celta do not mention Arsenal in their page about them signing Vela and (2) There is no mention anywhere on Arsenal.com that Vela is registered with the club, I'm happy to believe Arseweb's explanation. Qwghlm 17:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me. I'll take him back out. howcheng  {chat} 17:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vela 

message: At a long last The Official Arsenal Website mentions Armand Traore.  Does this constitute the final proof that Arsenal has, after all, signed this kid?  --Pkchan 14:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for getting over excited.  Some googling reveals that the official website has listed him on the Reserve Squad List some time ago already.  What is left missing is just his profile.  --Pkchan 14:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now placed on Wikipedia:Deletion review.  --Pkchan 15:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armand Traore 

message: This list has been in the page for several months while flagged as "incomplete" and no-one has been able to complete it. I've looked everywhere through my books and I've tried to find an authoritative list of Arsenal captains with relevant dates, and I've failed. In addition, I've found some conflicting accounts (one book for example says that both Terry Neill and George Eastham were captain for the same period in the 60s). It appears the role of "captain" used to be less institutionalised, less of a formal post, and more depending on whoever happened to be fit and on the pitch at the time. As I don't think this list is completable, nor is it that useful compared to other lists in the article, would anyone object if I removed it? Qwghlm 19:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it can't be traced back as far as a watershed such as the end of WW2, then it will look like a clumsy afterthought.  I'm a completist - it's all or nothing for me. Perhaps a raw text version of the list should be left on this talk page for future AFC historians.Slumgum 20:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As there were no objections I've gone ahead and removed it. Anyone searching for a list of Arsenal captains and who comes across upon this page, they can find a copy of it here. Qwghlm 13:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of captains 

message: What exactly is a famous player and how do we measure this?
The phrase "famous player" means well known, but too any football fan in England and alot in Europe 
most if not all the Arsenal first team are well known. Why is Ashley Cole Famous and not Cesc Fabregas??
Stupid section needs to be removed totally.
—This unsigned comment was added by Murphyweb (talk • contribs) 21:39, March 16, 2006.
:Re-titling it "Notable" rather than "Famous" might be a better alternative, as "notable" implies achievement, rather than fame, which is more subjective, I agree. But to remove the list would be ridiculous - what kind of article about a football club doesn't mention some of its past players? Qwghlm 22:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous Players???? 

message: I've made this template (:Template:Arsenal F.C. Squad).  Would it be a useful inclusion on each player's page? Slumgum | yap | stalk | 13:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have any objections. Maybe it should be by number instead of alphabetical order, though? Qwghlm 16:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Squad template

message: Hello! I've written a stubbish "article" on the Highbury squirrel incident during the game with Villarreal CF. It can be found in my userspace, more precisely here: User:TodorBozhinov/Highbury squirrel. I'd like to ask if you think this is notable enough to deserve a mainspace article or whether it should remain where it is. I myself believe it's more notable than Internet memes like Chuck Norris Facts but it's very important to hear other opinions because I believe this one could become a quick AfD candidate if I move it to mainspace. Also, don't hesitate to make any corrections and additions to the page.  → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 11:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely not. The squirrel is unlikely to be remembered within a few weeks, let alone a substantial period of time as WP:BIO demands. It should not be let anywhere near the main namespace. Qwghlm 10:55, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree with Qwghlm. Is the squirrel incident a significant one? Did it influence the outcome of the match? --Siva1979Talk to me 21:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe in 73 years time he'll be as famous as Billie the White Horse. I hope so. Slumgum | yap | stalk | 21:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highbury squirrel