Template talk:So You Think You Can Dance (American TV series)

message: Someone has gone through and removed a bunch of choreographers and placed the following comment:
* This list should only include long-choreographing choreographers or choreographers that has choreographed great routines that got an emmy/favorite routine etc.
That criteria is way to subjective. Everyone has a different idea of what "great" is. If we all want to pick a minimum number of routines before someone can appear on the list, that's fine, but then it has to be backed up by episode info. I already suggested that instead of listing every choreographer here, maybe we should only list those that have also guest judged, and point to this category for the rest:
* So_You_Think_You_Can_Dance_choreographers
The show is going on 7 seasons, so it doesn't seem fair to make the choreographer list be a place for a bunch of editors to argue about their popularity or record recent memories. I see Travis on there instead of other choreographers that had done work for the first 3 seasons, as an example.
Porfirio Landeros (talk) 05:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent removals and subjective criteria

message: I think we need to come up with criteria for the choreographers section.  As I've mentioned before, there are people not on the list that have choreographed multiple times, and there are people being added that have choreographed only once.  There is already a wiki category that catches choreographer bios for this show here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:So_You_Think_You_Can_Dance_choreographers
* Do we only post choreographers that have been on more than once?
* Do we only post ones that have judged, too?
* Do we only post ones that have been on more than one season?
Any ideas?
Porfirio Landeros (talk) 15:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think more than once qualifies to be included in the template. Some choreographers were just guest choreographers (for example, Cat noted that Sonya was guest choreographing this week) and shouldn't be included in the template. Also, I wonder if the official site has a section for choreographers... That way, at least as far as this season is concerned, we could go by the site. MissMJ (talk) 05:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't think they have to be there for more than one season in order to be listed. After all the top 4 from every season are only there one season but I do like the choreographed more than once rule. I think choreographed more than twice would be better just because I feel it would establish that the choreographer is consistent and/or notable enough to be on "faculty" as opposed to being a guest. Guest choreographers aren't necessary faculty. Who is Youri Nelzine and Todd Sams? Everyone else sounds familiar but I haven't heard of them at all? This is why I like choreographed more than twice better. I don't recall them doing one routine but if they did at least three, I think I would remember. 24.93.205.160 (talk) 18:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Criteria suggestions 

message: She isn't listed with the Choreographers/Guest Judges section, even though she has been included in the show since at least Season 3.  I will add her name, and a comment regarding her relationship to the performer Will Wingfield (a Contemporary dancer  who trained under Debbie Allen at the Debbie Allen Dance Academy) and how Nigel stated that this removes her from eligibility as an impartial judge, as long as Wingfield is a contenstant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suitmonster (talk • contribs) 17:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, she's has only appeared on the show as a guest judge, not as a choreographer. Noting that she is ineligible to judge Season 4 unless/until William is eliminated should be done in the Season 4 article. MissMJ (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Debbie Allen?

message: Hmmm, Ms. Allen has never been a guest choreographer for this show to my recollection... she's been a guest judge, but the section right now is entitled "Choreographers".  I would vote to remove her from choreographers until she supplies choreography for the show.  There are in fact a few other choreographers missing from this list that HAVE given choreography, but only made a couple or less appearances.  Ms. Allen has only appeared a couple of times since last season (Season 3) and once this season (Season 4).  The other information you've provided is definitely article-worthy, but I don't believe template-worthy. Porfirio Landeros (talk) 20:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, she's has only appeared on the show as a guest judge, not as a choreographer. Noting that she is ineligible to judge Season 4 unless/until William is eliminated should be done in the Season 4 article. MissMJ (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: She hasn't choreographed for the show (yet)

message: I have a problem with the Runners Up portion of this template.  Season 2 never said that Travis was the Runner Up... they just had him stand next to the Winner when the winner was revealed.  Unless this can be cited somewhere officially, I think the Runners Up field should be removed. Porfirio Landeros
:On the So You Think You Can Dance (US) article it states that he's the runner up. I just followed that information, although I can't remember if they ever explicitly said he was the runner up... Did they ever officially name a runner up in Season 1? I guess we could see if they name anyone runner up this season to figure if the field is warranted? MissMJ 00:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Runners Up issue

message: I suggest renaming/keeping this template US only, because if every country adds their choreograhers, winners, and judges, this template is going to explode.  Porfirio Landeros (talk) 09:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Keep this template for U.S.

message: The point of templates is to link common articles together, therefore, why include the ones that don't have any wiki pages? IRK!Leave me a note or two 13:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is true. Templates are primary suppose to link articles; however, what I've noticed with the SYTYCD templates is that they also inform. The Canadian and the Australian templates also have choreographers listed w/o wiki articles. I think these templates inform the general public who works on the show and also gives the choreographers due credit as well. For example, in this US template, Nakul Dev Mahajan and Doriana Sanchez have choreographed a lot for the show (5 routines and 20 routines respectively), so listing them gives due "props". To inform and to give credit; that's why they're listed. Note: there's a rule as to who is listed in the "Choreographers" section of this talk page. // Gbern3 (talk) 17:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There are, on the other hand, reality TV templates, and they don't list all of the contestants (see Template:The Amazing Race contestants, Template:Survivor contestants, etc. Because the primary purpose is to link articles and not give information, I'm removing the ones with no articles. Those can be created or be requested. IRK!Leave me a note or two 01:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Choreographers for the template

message: I just removed this country from the "other countries" section because I don't think SYTYCD is in this area (although I don't know that for sure) and it was a red link to an article that didn't exist on the subject. It's not even listed on the disambiguation page. I know there are countries that have SYTYCD but do not have an article like Ukraine for example (listed on Sonya Tayeh's resume) but can anyone verify that there's a SYTYCD franchise in the Netherlands/Belgium? // Gbern3 (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is a Netherlands version. HenrikNordin (talk) 17:04, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netherlands/Belgium 

message: I'm considering putting this template up for deletion, for a variety of reasons.  First off, all of the content within it is now redundant to that found on other pages, especially the main U.S. article.  That article, the season articles, and the international franchise index are all now well fleshed-out and interconnected, meaning the content found here is really never more than a single click or two away from any SYTYCD page (and in the case of the main U.S. page there isn't a single piece of information in this template that isn't already covered in a more thorough and organized fashion there).  Second, the template is often woefully out of date; when I recently updated it. certain sections were years out of date and, worse, certain sections cannot be updated without ballooning the template's size beyond a reasonable length.  This is even more silly when you consider that over 50 of the links in the template actually point to just eight pages (the individual season articles). 
But most importantly, the box is just an unnecessary eyesore on most of the pages it can be found on (and it's been inappropriately added to the pages of anyone or anything associated with the franchise); an individual season's article doesn't need to have the show's entire choreographer pool history shoe-horned in, nor are people visiting Travis Walls' page likely to find the top four finalists for all the seasons of the show to be germane to that article's content.  In short, this thing is years past its useful life.  I'll leave this message up for a few weeks or months to solicit opinions (not that I expect any here) and then begin to phase it out (replacing it with appropriate links and content where necessary and then ultimately putting it up for deletion altogether).   Although I am also toying with the notion of leaving the template in, but stripping it down to a single row, which would include only 11 items - the main U.S. page, the nine season pages and the international franchise page. This could be a good compromise I think as it would make sure all of the content currently found here was still kept easily within reach of those visiting connected articles without needlessly cluttering them all. Snow (talk) 21:41, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  About time to retire this box 

message: As per the issues discussed in the preceding section, I have a streamlined version of the template that I think may make it more user friendly and appropriate to the pages it is on.  To reiterate the issues that needed to be addressed:
To start, much of the content is redundant.  If a user is navigating an individual season's page, then he already has access to all of it's relevant information on its choreographers and contestants.   If he's not on the right season, each season is wikilinked in the first row of the template, so its easy enough to get there.  And in my opinion that's the function this template should serve: easy navigation between the various pages in the SYTYCD project (the U.S. pages in particular) not an an exhaustive list of anyone who has been involved with the show.  Aside from the judges, the hosts, and the international versions, all of these links point to the same 10 pages anyway, so why needlessly confuse the user with redundant links and information that is easily accessible anyway, if they're interested in the first place?  And cutting some of the fat doesn't just enhance the template's effectiveness for it's intended function (navigation) -- it also improves the look of the template and any page it's been added to.  The current versions sits like a brick anywhere its placed, looking cluttered and unhelpful.  None of these are criticisms of the past efforts of contributors to this template, consequently.  when this template was first created it wasn't nearly as redundant and had much less content to fill it.  It's simply that the main pages have evolved to a point where it's become a bit of an awkward misfit but we've kept updating it because, well that's what good Wikipedians do!  Until practical and stylistic demands intervene, anyway.
So, those are the issues I had in mind when I created this version: User:Snow_Rise/So_You_Think_You_Can_Dance_(United_States)_-_template_update.  It's not really that different really - the only things removed are the choreographers section and the lists for the first through third runners-up.  Both types of content can be easily located on the individual season pages or the main page in a fuller and more contextually significant manner.  For example, with the choreographers, they are listed in full on the main page -- on the current version of this template, only certain choreographers were mentioned and the guidelines editors were applying for who got included were subjective and arbitrary, leading to an inconsistent approach and arguments that can be seen above over who qualified -- and you can see what variety of choreography they were involved in.  Further info can be found for their involvement on the individual season pages, which note each of their individual contributions.  Likewise, the entire performance history of each of the runners-up is available in the article for the season in which the were contestants.  I've left the winners row in, however, as this seems like relevant information that should be accessible in the table at a glance (the winner of a season is always listed in the lead section for a season-specific article, so this seems consistent and appropriate).  Likewise, the "other contestants" section is still present in the streamlined version as well, providing wikilinks to the Top 20 (or however many) list within each season's article.   Otherwise the table is mostly the same, other than that I've updated content in some rows, provided additional wikilinks, changed the title to be more specific to the show than the franchise and just generally cleaned it up a bit.  Anyway, those are the changes and my reasoning for them.  I'll leave this up a few days before affecting a change, though I doubt anyone is going to suddenly be checking here. Once I change the table though, I'm sure I'll be getting all kinds of company.  Wikipedia is always quiet until you change something. ;) Snow (talk) 04:28, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal