Talk:Pope Manufacturing Company

message: I think it would be good to add links to photos of the High Wheeler.  Any ideas about which models would be most representative?  
* http://www.bicycle-and-bikes.com/image-files/columbia-bicycle.jpg
* http://rlv.zcache.com/columbia_bicycle_poster-p228705909852086949qzz0_400.jpg
* http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/3747726459_6278e00821.jpg (1882 Columbia on display at the Frick Museum in Pittsburgh)
I'm not sure about Wiki policy regarding photo links.  I'll look it up in "Help".--NinetyNineFennelSeeds (talk) 18:38, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbia High Wheeler 

message: Pope Manufacturing Company (PMC) was listed in the 1876 Boston City Directory (Bruce Epperson, Peddling Bicycles), meaning Pope might have been doing business as PMC as early as 1875. The directory publishers collected listings earlier in the year, and some start-up businesses for that year would miss that year's directory. Therefore, Pope might have been DBA PMC as early as 1875, and he was definitely DBA PMC in 1876. The most accurate type of statement about the founding would have the following flavor, "Pope Manufacturing was founded no later than 1876." The article suggests that there was no PMC without Columbia bicycles.
The article states, "The company began with the introduction of the "Columbia High Wheeler" bicycle in 1878." It cites David Herlihy (2004), pages 184-192. Herlihy writes at p.184, "When Albert Pope launched the Columbia make in 1878..." there is no mention of the founding of PMC, the "launching" is for the Columbia bicycle brand. PMC predates Columbia. Pope had been manufacturing shoe supplies, cigarette rollers, and air rifles prior to his foray into bicycles. I'm interested in amending the article, and I have access to some good books on the subject.Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:14, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Oldsanfelipe. Thanks for catching that, I'm afraid I may have been the one to have added that fact and citation.  Whether or not it was me, I did some editing of this article quite a few years back when I read Herlihy's book.  I'll look At Herlihy's book more closely in the morning, as it's late here now.  I would suggest "Pope Manufacturing was founded in 1875 or 1876", over "...no later than..." as it seems more specific and easier to understand.  If I read "no later than 1876" I'd not be sure if it was founded within the 5 or 50 years prior to 1876, hence my suggestion.  Thanks for the good work on this article, and for using the talk page.  --Keithonearth (talk) 09:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Keithonearth. Other editors have caught my mistakes, and some of mine have been of greater consequence. Maybe the lede should be reworded.  Another option would be "founded around 1876." Herlihy probably relied on the incorporation date when he talked about the founding date and his book had a broad subject. Epperson's Peddling Bicycles was mostly about Pope's businesses, so it shouldn't be surprising that Epperson found better info.  Epperson and Herlihy also had correspondence. Epperson published his book in 2010, six years later than Herlihy's book. I've also been editing the Albert Augustus Pope article. I would appreciate anyone who would look for ways to improve it. I am distinguishing the editing approaches as follows: using the Pope Manufacturing article to describe the corporate structure, important employees, facilities, and technological innovation.  Albert Pope was a promoter, so I thinking about expanding the AA Pope page to include promotional activities, such as the clubs, publishing, and advocacy. Any thoughts?Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:52, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Founding of Pope Manufacturing Company

message: This article could be improved by lifting some of the material from the article on the company's founder.  For example, the way the company managed patent rights.  Also, a mention of the supreme court case against another bicycle (Rambler) manufacturer would be helpful, Pope Mfg. Co. v. Gormully.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.183.224.2 (talk) 22:24, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patents 

message: I believe that this article could be improved by splitting it into 2 or even 3 separate articles.  My suggested organization would be as follows:  first, the 19th century (that's the 1800's) Pope Manufacturing Company from its founding to Pope's death and PMC receivership; second, the early 20th century (that's the 1900's) Westfield Manufacturing Company from post bankruptcy, depression-era subsidiary to the Torrington Company; third might be the later 20th century (1960's) name change to Columbia Manufacturing Company, merger with the Modern Tool and Die Company, bankruptcy (again) in the late 1980's, and so forth.  Generally, I suggest different articles for each of the different company names.  The section on mopeds seems out of place, with the rest of the article, up to that time, only relating to pre-1920 events.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 00:36, 11 March 2017‎ 144.183.224.2 (talk • contribs) 
:Hi 144.183.224.2:
:That's a good question given the proliferation of companies under the Pope umbrella. I would need to refresh my memory regarding the Pope to give a detailed answer, but off the top of my head, it seems like the bicycle companies of the 19th century were all closely held. Perhaps Westfield and Torrington are different. I restricted my reading to the bicycle concerns.
:If my memory is correct (not a given!), and the companies were all closely held, there may not be a reason to create new articles. I think it would be more compelling if the ownership and management were outside of Pope's control. That being said, if you have some good secondary sources for the later period, and particularly concerning the motorized vehicles, this is where the article needs the most work. cheers, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decomposition - perhaps a separate Westfield article is in order 

message: “MDT” is used under the last section (“Bankruptcy and reorganizations”) without stating what it is nor what the letters “MDT” stand for. Is it a company? A subsidiary? Also, in last sent., yet another company is named  (“Columbia Bicycles, a subsidiary of Ballard Pacific”) but Ballard Pacific was never previously mentioned either. Comes across a bit abruptly—would help if more info was provided. Just my 2 cents. Thanks. Cynthisa (talk) 07:29, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, for the late response. I did not edit that section, but that refers to Modern Tool and Die. Best, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 18:43, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  “MDT” not defined 

message: Looks like there was a fire which destroyed 1800 bikes at Pope in 1896. The fire did not slow them down, but perhaps there is some research to be added here. Bruxton (talk) 15:57, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there was a major fire at the Pope HQ on Washington in Boston, which combined central offices, a large bike store, and a bike shop. I read about it in secondary sources several years ago. I would look at Epperson and Goddard. Best, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fire