Talk:Military history of the Soviet Union

message: Ok, the claim about soviets loosing a million and germans - 300,000 is first of all ridiculous, and second of all contradicts wikipedia's own Stalingrad article. I deleted it.99.231.50.118 (talk) 06:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The timeline on the bottom of the article do not include the occupation/annexation of the three baltic states in 1940. Stalin sharply demanded to place soviet military on their ground, the small states did'nt dare to say anything else than yes, and Stalin followed up with a "socialist revolution", fake elections and took over the rule of the three independent states during months. The Soviet Military playd a big role here. (the act was also a part of Molotov-Ribbentroph pact). The person behind the timeline should add this. I was not able too.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarao (talk • contribs) 18:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing data 

message: This page should be moved back to military history of the Soviet Union since all the other military history articles use that format--Jiang 06:49, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just moved it. 172 16:28, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Are you going to exclude the military history of RSFSR before the creation of the SU? Mikkalai 21:07, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. The article should start off with the military history of the Russian SSFSR. Perhaps the title should be the military history of Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union? 172 22:49, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move page 

message: I'm a bit troubled by the current outline, which seems a bit more fitting for (say) an article on Soviet foreign relations or Soviet diplomatic history. Instead, an article on this topic should focus on the huge Soviet military-industrial complex, which competed with other sectors of the Soviet economy and society for power and the allocation of resources. First, it should start off tracing the development of the leadership and organization of the Soviet military, its relationship to the Communist Party and the secret police, and how Soviet authorities ensured the political control of the armed forces throughout the Soviet era.
Second, the article should trace the role of the defense sector in the Soviet economy. The Soviet Union's commitment to the Cold War was enormous. In the late 1980s, the Soviet Union devoted a quarter of its gross economic output to the defense sector (at the time most Western analysts believed that this figure was 15 percent). The Soviet military-industrial complex employed at least one fifth of the workforce. (The comparable U.S. figures were roughly one-sixteenth of gross national product and about one of every sixteen in the workforce.) Toward the end, the article can touch on the economic devastation suffered by main regions of the former Soviet Union with the end of the Cold War and the cutback in military spending, which hit heavy industrial plants very hard and some regions of Russia entirely dependent on the military-industrial complex.
I tentatively recommend the following outline: (1) Development of the Soviet party, state, military structure (2) National security-- subsections of which can trace the role of the armed forces in the Second World War, Soviet hegemony in Eastern Europe, and the Cold War. (3) The Soviet military-industrial complex and the economy (4) The armed forces and the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The first two sources I'd recommend are Anders Åslund, "How small is the Soviet National Income?" in Henry S. Rowen and Charles Wolf, Jr., eds., The Impoverished Superpower: Perestroika and the Soviet Military Burden (San Francisco: Institute for Contemporary Studies, 1990) for a relatively short survey. William E. Odom The Collapse of the Soviet Military (New Haven & London: Yale University  Press, 1998) is a definitive source. 172 07:16, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked at a few other military histories, and they appear to be based on a timeline: British_military_history, Military_history_of_Canada, Military_history_of_the_United_States. I think if we split the article according to the timeline, it would be easier for multiple editors to collaborate on it. What you propose would likely produce a better article, but it would be a lot harder to write. Your proposal requires an understanding of the issue as a whole, as opposed to just learning parts of it. I am not opposed to your proposal. I just think it's more than can be realistically done by a loose group of editors. It's a job for one or two dedicated editors working in close collaboration. --Gene s 07:53, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but the goal of the collaboration of the week process is to produce something worthy of featured article status. While I can't write the whole thing, I can help with the research and outlining if the other editors want to write a scholarly piece that goes deeper than an almanac-like chronicle. 172 08:03, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As a subsection of the section on national security. It makes sense to trace the development of how the Soviets structured military, party, and state relations first and then go into the war. 172 08:03, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I put in just the very beginnings of the WWII content.  It's getting late here, though, and I'm afraid if I go any further I won't make any sense.  Hopefully other collaborators can expand and expound as necessary. ---B- 09:08, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Problems with the current outline

message: While we're all working on the article, we should link items sparingly. Since we're working on bits and pieces of at a time, we don't have a very good idea about where the first mention of a item will appear in the article, and we're only supposed to link an item where it first appears in the article. 172 23:36, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I will respectfully disagree. In a long article like this one, a single link is nearly impossible to find, if a question arises somewhere down the text. A link per item per major section would be more reasonable (look at it in this way: a major section is a potential separtate article). Mikkalai 21:51, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: We can always remove multiple links in the same section later. I'd rather accidentally link too much and remove the extra links than accidentally link too little and not even realise that potentially useful links are missing. Just my $(1/50). Nvinen 04:40, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Linking while we work

message: I thought we moved the page to Soviet military history in order not to exclude the history of Soviet Russia prior to the USSR's creation in 1922. What's the logic behind moving it back?AndyL 23:39, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, okay. Jiang pointed out that this page should be moved back to military history of the Soviet Union since all the other military history articles use that format. I tought about that problem and figured that the page could be moved again to military history of Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union, but I guess that'll be too length and confusing for some. Please go ahead and move it back. 172 23:43, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO it is never too late to move it back. Although it was me who rose the issue now, at the same time I would suggest to wait 1-2 days for other opinions. Mikkalai 01:15, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, any other opinions? Mikkalai 01:15, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections from me. 172 04:22, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: "of Soviet Union" was done for consistency. On the other hand, special cases require special treatment. The RSFSR/USSR case is clearly special. "Soviet history" it is then. --Gene s 05:45, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move II

message: When adding to this article, please refrain from using the word "Russia" as it was not the official name of the country during the period covered on this page. It's akin to referring to the UK as "England". It's used often, but it is NOT correct. --Woohookitty 23:50, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Russia versus the Sovet Union

message: Eventually the timeline can go in an article organized along the lines of Timeline of events leading to the American Civil War. 172 23:52, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline

message: Please be aware that much of the content of this article has been copied and pasted by 172 without modification from a United States government report  of 1989. Furthermore, the article's structure is being shaped to match this, with even valid but presently-empty sections that do not have material in the US report being deleted or renamed to match sections that can be pasted. This is hardly acceptable scope, neutrality, or quality. 119 20:51, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (1) It is public domain, and better than nothing. (I haven't had time this week to write my own work.) As for quality and neutrality, the LOC handbooks indeed come with their own biases, but they are generally far less biased than the hysterical anticommunism that usually pervades Wikipedia articles, making every single political crisis in the Third World out to be a part of some grand Kremlin conspiracy. (2) I have modified all of the content that I have posted, not taking anything from the LOC sourcebook for granted, posting only stuff that I can personally vouch for with other sources. If anyone has any specific qualms about any of the content that I have posted, I will provide independent sources backing it all up. (3) As for the scope, even if this article were to become as detailed as our largest text-based article found in Wikipedia:Offline reports/This is one of the longest articles (November 2003), given the wealth of literature on this topic, writing at this level of detail only requires when to write from his own general knowledge and from other sourcebooks; such a broad article can only be a most general of surveys. As for the organization, it is not based on that of the LOC handbook. It is based on my own proposal to first trace the origins of the military/party/government structure and the military's relationships with other Soviet institutions, and then to give a brief overview of Soviet national security, ending it with an examination of the nature and size of the Soviet military-industrial complex. This organization is an alternative to one based on a simple timeline, chronicling every single Soviet military intervention (an organization more fitting for an article that takes into account the history of Soviet foreign relations along with military history). 172 23:26, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: (1) Yes, I'll start working on a references section, along with the other unfinished sections. (2) I like "Practical deployment of Soviet military." Please go ahead and change it to that title. The other two proposals are okay, but they may encourage other users to get too chronological. Yes, the section can be more comprehensive, along with all the others. Every section of the article is a work in progress. (3) Nice work on your own contributions, especially the photos. 172 01:27, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: U.S. report pasting

message: Maybe I am nitpicking, but should we really use the term "collapse of the military" in the section title?  I would say the transition from Soviet to Russian armed forces was carried out reasonably smoothly and continuity was maintained.  There were almost no political purges whatsoever, and the majority of the Russian officers at least continued their careers.  Since 1991 Russia still has no difficulty in maintaining an unbroken strategic nuclear parity with the USA. Of course I am not denying that Russia's military has for the most part only a fraction of the Soviet capability before 1991, but collapse it not an appropriate word to describe what happened. Balcer 03:44, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This had little to do with the military, but rather the unraveling of the Communist Party. 172 05:15, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I see that I misunderstood.  I guess then it would be a bit more clear to have: The military and the collapse of the Soviet Union, to avoid the suggestion that the military collapsed along with the USSR  Balcer 05:26, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I could add something about the Russian Navy's 300th anniversary. I'm just not sure it would be what this page was looking for. Some facts I could add: Russia, (of course) US, Chinese, Japanese, N and S Korean ships were all there. The history of these countries speak for themselves, but from my understanding Japan and Russia were still at war at the time, never having signed a peace treaty after ww2. US, Chinese tensions were very high during that time with taiwan having elections later that year. Also directly about the Navy, many sailors reported not having been paid in months, some reported partial payment only. Further, when coming into harbor, it was obvious that the Russian ships were painted only on the side facing the shore. 24.28.229.74 04:24, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Collapse of the Soviet Union and the military

message: This article was really coming along great when it seemed to lose its steam a few days ago, but I believe that we have the proper start of a featured article.  The problem I see is that "Cold War and Conventional Weapons" was too broad a category that covered too many conflicts, so I divided it up into regions.  I hope to heavily edit the text in those areas when I have the time later today or tommorrow.  This is Ryan Anderson.
:Perhaps, but the division was starting out as chronological. Rather than dividing it up into region, period may be better. 172 19:32, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dividing up "conventional weapons" 

message: There should be some reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis, particularly the stationing of Soviet missiles on the island and the standoff between Soviet vessels and the US Navy in regards to the quarentine zone. AndyL 23:55, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuban Missile Crisis 

message: The date/title/conflict/outcome headings in the timeline chart appear to be covered in black. Can someone fix this? 172
:I see bold, black text on a red background? 119 22:57, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: On my browser it appears all in black. 172 23:00, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I was experimenting with adding a red background.  Thanks to 119 for reverting my edit. Ryan Anderson 00:13, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The chart looks very nice now. 172 02:20, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline headings

message: A huge topic is missing here. In particular, the crucial role of the Red Army in establishing of Soviet states in the areas of Caucasus and Central Asia; see, e.g., Democratic Republic of Georgia and Basmachi Revolt articles for some idea. Mikkalai 21:36, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Army and intial expansion of the Soviet Union 

message: I put an NPOV banner on this page, in the hopes of circumventing the embarrassment of having it as a featured article.  I've already corrected some hyperbole and glowing references.  Where is the subjugation of the Baltic States, and aiding of the Nazi's in Poland, and the occupation of non-Axis nations in eastern Europe?  --Silverback 01:20, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, this is about the MILITARY history of the Soviet Union, not the political history. I suppose it would be worth mentioning the havoc the Red Army caused to Germany and her allies at the end of WW2, since that was more on a personal level than a political level. I think it's also worth mentioning that the Soviet Union had branches of the military specifically in order to quell unrest (which I suspect is already mentioned but I'd have to check). However, I don't see what the subjugation of the baltic states has to do directly with the military. Surely this is something the Kremlin would decide upon and the army would be more of an instrument than anything else? It's certainly worth mentioning but I fail to see how it affects the point of view (or lack of) of this article. Nvinen 01:39, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: The invasion of Finland certainly merits mention. Isn't this one of the few times the Red Army was totally defeated? They pulled out of Afghanistan and Chechnya is not going all that well, but my understanding is they were completely repulsed by the Finns, who ended up on the side of the Nazis once Germany invaded the USSR. Nvinen 01:42, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The subjugation of the Baltic states was a "use" of the military, how is it not part of the military history?  I realize this is a broad coverage, but to talk about brilliant campaigns and victories, and to leave out these less glorious uses of the military just seems POV to me.   One thing that I think still is missing, is the disregard for the lives of the soldiers during WWII.  It is not enough just to cite the losses, divisions that could easily have been saved were not responsibly evacuated, in decisions every bit as callous and stupid as Hitlers throwing away of his troops at Stalingrad.   The USSR lost 7 million, not because it was a great sacrifice, but because it didn't care.  How many of the 20 million civilians lost were due to the scorched earth "strategy", or the failure to evacuate Leningrad?   I'm not sure if the callousness of civilian deaths are part of military strategy or policy that should be included in this article, but it might be.--Silverback 03:24, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's certainly true that Soviet infantry have been used as cannon fodder more than once, especially in defence of the USSR. I agree, if this article is going to discuss campaigns, it should discuss them all. They were pretty desperate, though.  I think we should also mention the chaos the soldiers caused. Nvinen 07:39, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Hmm, you're right, the bit which talked about WW2 didn't mention the enormous losses they took in the desperate circumstances, nor the brutality of the Red Army once they went on the offensive. I put in reasonable mentions of both, I think, along with a couple of references. The rapes and murders of the Red Army in Germany and the USSR late in the war seem to be well documented. Nvinen 08:11, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: This article was a Collaboration of the Week, was listed on Per Review for over two weeks, and was listed on FAC for an additional two weeks and in all of this time no one objected on the grounds of NPOV until you, just now.  This said, I think it is unfair for you to classify this as an "embarrasment" to the Wikipedia community.  This is not to say, however, that your specific claims are without merit.  However, since these complaints are yours alone, they ought to be very easy to enumerate and satisfy.  Would you care to do this?  Just make a list of your specific complaints regarding NPOV, note which ones have already been corrected and tell us how we can help correct those still standing. It appears that the ones you have already mentioned on this Talk Page have all been meted out in your own edits and -if this is the case- the NPOV banner should be removed. Ryan Anderson 20:35, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanx for your assistance.  I have remove NPOV.  The other changes I'd like to see would take more time to document, and it would be unfair to hold up an article that is fairly neutral.  It is unclear to me whether some of the decisions that resulted in so many loss of civilian and military lives were political or military and thus should be documented here vs elsewhere.--Silverback 21:24, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your help.  I may have gotten a little snappy at first, but I do appreciate what are obviously genuine efforts to improve the article, and I do agree that before you got here we had some POV problems still unresolved. Ryan Anderson 17:28, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I do not think "Strategic doctrine" is not appropriate in this context. The article is really just discussing the there-unnammed military doctrine of Deep Battle.  Where you see "Strategic doctrine" used is essentially national security plans, or "grand strategy." Military doctrine, such as what this section discusses, is much more limited. I'm so glad you reverted me and told me to explain rather than assuming good faith or asking for clarification. 119 00:44, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Section retitled "Military doctrine" as compromise.  Does this agree with you? Ryan Anderson 18:35, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Strategic doctrine"

message: Please explain how rape and murder fit into a "scorched earth" policy. The Wikipedia article on "scorched earth" does not mention either. However the rapes and murders of the advancing Red Army in World War 2 are extremely well documented. Even Russians suffered. I think it's a sick joke that you dismiss it like that. This ends my involvement in Wikipedia. Well established facts are dismissed as "POV" if someone doesn't like them. Well, I'm sick of it. Nvinen 01:17, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Scorched earth"

message: I see that the article includes a mention that some of the material was sourced from the American library of Congress... surely that is a little biased considering that for most of the Soviet Union's history, the USA was against the USSR (invading it during its birth, and the Cold War later), except for when they allied during WWII. I can't see anyone using a Stalinist source for American military history...
:You're right, this could potentially have been a problem. I do not, however, see where it has actually materialised as one.  All of the text imported from the LOC has been heavily expanded and editted since its introduction, and if you look further up on this talk page you'll see that quite recently this article was even accused of having a pro-Soviet bias.  If you note any specific instances of bias, please amend them appropriately or post them here so that others may edit accordingly.  Otherwise I do believe this article represents our policy of NPOV. Ryan Anderson 17:48, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: American Library of Congress as a good source?

message: beautiful tables 141.212.190.54 16:12, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  tables 

message: I'd feel more comfortable with something on the order of it was "the major army in the defeat of Nazi Germany".  Certainly it is difficult to attribute relative credit when one considers the importance of air power in the strategic bombing of the German economy and attrition of the Luftwaft and when one considers the importance of the Navy in securing supply routes across the Altantic to the western front, and lend lease supplies across the Pacific and considerable loss of lives and materials.--Silverback 22:48, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  its army was the major force in the defeat of Nazi Germany? 

message: Forgive the spam, but I'm trying to round up wikipedians with an interest in international military history to help work out some conventions for the names of military units. If you are interested in that sort of thing, please visit Wikipedia:Naming conventions (military units) and join the discussions on the talk page. — B.Bryant 17:48, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (military units)]] 

message: This has been a FA extensively proofread, edited and peer-reviewed. Please don't just go out deleting stuff. A quote from "Be bold! ...but don't be reckless" said this better than ever:
:If you encounter an article on a controversial subject that you would like to edit, it's a good idea to first read the article in its entirety, read the comments on the talk page, and view the page history to get a sense of how the article came into being and what its current status is.
--Irpen 18:27, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
--The battle of Warsaw only saw some 5,000 Soviet casaulties. No way you can call it the biggest defeat of the Red army EVER. (unsigned by anon)
anon one, perhaps the case is being made on political significance to the leaders?  Soviet leadership was notorious for not caring about mere casualties civilian or military.  So casualties may not be the appropriate criteria of a big defeat.  If it were, several "victories" would also have to be classified as defeats.--Silverback 10:25, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's right. Like the Eastern Front (World War II). A very good point! (Sorry, could not resist) --Irpen 15:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New round of deletions

message: Can someone tell me when Truman tacly threatened to use nuclear weapons if the Soviets wouldn't grant some concession? CJK 01:31, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added refs to the article to the scholars who said so. I also added tacitly to the phrase. --Irpen 01:43, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, we certainly are reflecting an opinion, but not of you or myself, but of the established specialists. What we can do, is to reorganize the refs to be linkable to the appropriate places of the article via footnotes to make clear wich scholars' opinion the passage is based on. --Irpen 01:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Truman's "coercion"

message: This is slightly beyond the namespace of the article, but the timeline of troop withdrawals from Eastern Europe seems quite pertinent to the scope and resolution of this article.  They occurred through the first half of the 1990s, and were an extremely significant event in the denouement of the Soviet Union.  Does anyone have the information to add? —thames 16:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troop withdrawals 

message: It is a bade idea for many reason
1 The pages have little to do with each other one page is more myth the other is more fact
2 People in wiki often want small articles and this would make an article bigger
3 mixing fiction with fact is never good 
(Deng 21:26, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mergeing

message: I wonder, why this date is not reflected in the article? This is the official date of the Red Army creation. Well, modern researches didn't find any significant events on the date, but the Day is still here (renamed as "the Day of Protectors of Motherland"). --jno 11:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  23 Feb 1918 

message: ... The next major crisis occurred in Azerbaijan, when the Soviet army forcibly entered Baku on January 19-20, 1990, removing the rebellious republic government and allegedly killing hundreds of civilians in the process...
This is the sentence I quoted from the article. The problem is that the government at the time was not rebellious but anything else. In fact most of the civilians were killed because of the demonstrations calling for resignation of the government. I lived those days and I do know that it is true. I would seek for references of the fact. However, could the writer of the above sentence reply where he/she acquired that info.--Araks 22:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baku January 1990 

message: Despite a common myth, largely a child of Soviet propaganda, the white army was also revolutionary - they were the child of the February revolution, and of the forces that overthrew the Romanovs; their ideology was liberalism, not monarchism. (V.Kozhinov, Russia XX century) With respect, Ko Soi IX 17:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  White army's were not counter-revolutionaries 

message: Does anyone know anything about this? We don't seem to have an article on it. Operation Downfall says: "Unbeknownst to the Americans, the Soviets were preparing to follow up their invasions of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands with an invasion of the weakly defended island of Hokkaidō by the end of August, which would have put pressure on the Allies to do something sooner than November." No source is given, but there are some mentions of it on the web. Grant | Talk 10:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Proposed Soviet invasion of Japan in World War II]]

message: Hi there I wold like to let all people viewing this page that I restored The part about the list of soviet milatary action's [the wars between 1917 and 1991]  I think these are extremly important because it lets people know the soviet's didnt just fight in the russian civil war, world war 2, the cold war and it's proxe wars. 
[forgive me i dont care how i spell my words or setences] Protoss99  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Protos99 (talk • contribs) 05:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet miliatry operations 

message: I think we should delete this nonsense. As a counter argument, there are two words: "Operaton Unthinkable".
Churchill and British intellegence admitted that attack on USSR in 1945 was "militarily unfeasible".  It was rather the other way around in terms of vulnerability. Western Europe was vulnerable to soviet invasion.99.231.50.118 (talk) 04:29, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because YOU are aware of "Unthinkable" NOW, doesn't mean that the Soviet leadership of the period was convinced, having fought off two large scale invasions from the west in the last 25 or so years. With respect, Ko Soi IX (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sovits were aware of the size of German military at the time it attacked them, soviets were aware of the size and power of western military in Europe. Of course, German military (not only german actually) was of course much more powerful. What I am saying in  a nutshell: The way they fought off last invasion, they (soviets) knew that they had most powerful land army in history and their forces in europe were unmatched by anyone, I am pretty sure sthere are references that state that it was in fact Stalin's plan in 1944 (when it was clear USSR would take Germany in a couple of years by it's own, even americans would not intervene) to attack europe and make it socialist. Even if you are right, you should not right "soviet vulnerability", but rather "soviet vulnerability as perceived by then soviet leadership", because in reality there was none. But first, you should provide some sources that the buffer zone was established because of the reasons you stated and not some other? Please provide sources.99.231.50.118 (talk) 02:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mindful of soviet vulnerability to western invasion." 

message: Why is the following nonsense allowed to remain in this article? It essentially says that in the Winter War, the Finns defeated the Soviets militarily, and then forced peace terms on the vanguished USSR. I tried to edit the passage mildly, to put the facts into perspective, but my edit was immediately reversed. 
The resulting war proved disastrous for the Soviet military.  The Red Army, which was still feeling the sting of Stalin's purges and finding itself starved of industrial and intellectual resources, and facing a disastrously under-estimated opponent, suffered a series of embarrassing defeats before accepting armistice on March 13, 1940. As a direct result of the Soviet aggression the Soviet Union was expelled from the League of Nations on December 14, 1939
The facts are that, after suffering a series of defeats by the Finns, the Soviets reorganized their forces, and mauled the enemy in a final great offensive. Mannerheim, the Finnish commander, then advised his government to negotiate peace on Soviet terms. Recognizing that they had lost the war, the Finns wisely chose to settle early with the Soviets, while there was still potential for a relatively lenient peace treaty. In the end, the Finns retained their independence, but ceded huge tracts of territory, and resources, to the victorious Soviets. Why does this article have to distort historical truth? What is the point?
I tried to edit the passage so that it says the following:
The resulting war proved disastrous for the Soviet military.  The Red Army, which was still feeling the sting of Stalin's purges and finding itself starved of industrial and intellectual resources, badly under-estimated its opponent. Consequently, the Soviets suffered a series of defeats before forcing an armistice on the outnumbered Finns on March 13, 1940. As a direct result of the Soviet aggression the Soviet Union was expelled from the League of Nations on December 14, 1939
For some reason, my edit was reversed. Pathetic.
Kenmore (talk) 19:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've fixed the section using your description and removed few other controversial points. GreyHood Talk 20:12, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Distorted description of the Finnish War

message: I fail to understand why the Soviet Military support and supply to the Indian government from independence (1947) upto the dissolution of the Soviet Union (1992) is not even remotely mentioned in thsi article. Soviet Military aid to India was the backbone of India's military superiority to Pakistan during the 3 wars and numerous conflicts during the period (1947-1991). The Indian military was relentlessly equipped with modern aircraft, naval vessels, submarines and tanks in order to ensure the safeguard of the Indian republic and numerous defence and miltary pacts were signed between the Soviet and Indian governments. India's dependency on Soviet aid is not unknown and neither can it be denied.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.59.74.162 (talk) 08:23, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet Military support to India 

message: User repeatedly removes mention of major events from history from page Military history of the Soviet Union.   
Removes all mention of:
#Berlin Blockade
#Cuban Missile Crisis
#Prague Spring
Should these 3 entries be removed from this page or kept ? Are they a significant part of the Military history of the Soviet Union ? Should military history be limited solely to wars ? Sagecandor (talk) 03:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Exemplo. Obviously they should all be included as they all involved the military of the Soviet Union. Cheers, Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 00:10, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you both very much. Sagecandor (talk) 22:29, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three major parts of history being removed from this page 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206184932/http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Russia/ to http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Russia/
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replies: text: "defeats for the Red Army in the Polish–Soviet War (1919–21) and in independence wars for Estonia (1918–20), Latvia (1918–20) and Lithuania (1918–19)". I would not call these wars wars of independence, they are rather civil wars, since often in the territory of the Baltic States, troops of non-Baltic origin fought against the Bolsheviks and even played one of the decisive roles in this war, like the same German Landswehr in Latvia or that how the northwestern Russian army or the same Russian-German western volunteer army of Bermondt-Avals fought for Estonia in Lithuania and vice versa, the same Latvian riflemen and Lithuanian and Estonian units fought in the Red Army, you can also remember that they were quite popular in the Baltic states Bolshevik and generally left-wing ideas, in the same elections to the constituent assembly, the Bolsheviks took just the same took first place in Estonia Цйфыву (talk) 11:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in exactly the same way, you can see that the Red Army won the wars in the Caucasus, against Georgian, Armenian and Azerbaijani nationalists, and, of course, it is also strange that the authors of the article claim that it was the Red Army that committed aggression against Poland during the Soviet-Polish war, although Poland was the first to invade the territory of the RSFSR, and more precisely, the territory of Ukraine in April 1920, thereby violating the winter agreements of 1920 year, and before that the conflict began in the winter of 1918-1919, when, after the departure of the German army, the Polish forces moving east, and the Soviet forces west began to fight for the western border territories of the former Russian empire, although there was an attempt to negotiate on the part of the RSFSR, which the Polish side rejected at the beginning of 19 year Цйфыву (talk) 11:59, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified