Talk:Hughes OH-6 Cayuse

message: Add short note and redirect link for Xian H-6 aircraft -- 
Adeptitus 16:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Xian H-6

message: The MH-6 is not that important to have his own article. There's enough space here to handle this H-6 subversion. --Denniss 12:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, and I'm not even sure how accurate the MH-6 article is. It looks like it was written by a Black Hawk Down or Battlefield 2 fan. ericg ✈ 15:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I just stumbled upon that article. I've cleaned it up a little, but support the proposed merger. The proposal has had more than long enough and no objections; I don't have time right now but if anyone here does, we should go ahead. – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 19:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[MH-6 Little Bird]] merge 

message: I would like to see the addition of information concerning the MH-6M Mission Enhanced Little Bird (MELB). I will do it if I get time.
(Born2flie 20:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MELB 

message: I've found a reference for the Hughes Tool Co. and its various incarnations at Boeing's site under history. 
*1953, Hughes created the Hughes Medical Institute and gave the Hughes Aircraft Co. as its sole asset. 
*1955, Hughes separated the helicopter unit out of the Aircraft Co. and joined it to Hughes Tool Co. as the Aircraft Division. It was during this time that the OH-6 was developed and produced. 
*1972, the Aircraft Division was reformed as the helicopter division of the Summa Corp. when Hughes sold the Hughes Tool Co. 
*1981, it became Hughes Helicopters Inc. 
*1984, Hughes Helicopters Inc. became a part of the McDonnel Douglass Corporation. 
*1985, it was renamed McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Co. and then later that year, it was renamed again to McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Systems.
I will be editing the article for content specific to this timeline. (Born2flie 13:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hughes Tool Co. Aircraft Division vs. Toolco Helicopters. 

message: The type certificate for the Allison T63-A-5A shows 317 shp, but the type certificate of the OH-6A, with the T63-A-5A installed, shows the 5 minute limit at 250 shp. I'm assuming that there is a transmission limit that isn't described, but I have no references to establish that. Anyone have an anecdotal reference?
--Born2flie 07:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allison T63 

message: I have completed the major portion of the MD Helicopters MD 500 article, tho it still needs pics of MD 500s. I have tried to keep the overlap to a minimum by focusing on the civilian models of the Hughes/MD 500, as this article already focuses exclusively on the military models. Any input on the new page would be appreciated, especially new pics! - BillCJ 23:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MD Helicopters MD 500

message: This article says this helicopter has a crew of two. Does this mean 2 pilots, or a pilot and an observer? Jecowa 20:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This aircraft is traditionally a single-pilot aircraft. During Vietnam, it would've carried a pilot and observer/gunner, or two pilots for training or familiarization. The AH and MH versions use two pilots for survivability if the aircraft is struck by small arms and the pilot on the controls is incapacitated. --Born2flie 01:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks you. Jecowa 04:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crew number 

message: Captain Swanson was recently, posthumously awarded the U.S. Army Medal of Honor. I wanted to include him as a notable because as far as I can find, he is the only OH-6A pilot that has been awarded the MOH, although I have to say, I've read/heard enough stories of OH-13/OH-23/OH-6 pilots in Vietnam to know that Captain Swanson's actions are the standard. The problem is how do you write that and maintain NPOV without simply being politically correct? Here is what I had edited from the award citation:  Please let me know what your suggestions are to be able to include this mention of the kinds of conditions faced by OH-6A pilots in combat. --Born2flie 14:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Jon E. Swanson 

message: I was trying to determine which numbers in the specifications applied to which aircraft. I'm pretty sure that they don't apply to the OH-6A since they are those would be relatively close to the following:
===Specifications (OH-6A)===

--Born2flie 10:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specifications 

message: 
--Born2flie 10:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Specifications (OH-6A)

message: I don't think it's appropriate for this article to have so much blow-by-blow info on specific operations the Loach was involved in. Sure, it's interesting and relevant to discuss this stuff, but the length and detail is over the top.
Somebody want to have a go at condensing this stuff? I'm hesitant to just start pruning as I'd like the person who included this info to have the opporunity. But if the article stays like this, I'll pull out the clipers. It's just too bloated!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Actionsquid (talk • contribs) 17:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're more than welcome to. I've been looking for information on the Vietnam use. Too much of it is anectdotal and way too many stories and operations to include here. I've thought that maybe the 160th SOAR section was a bit much. Maybe what we have is the necessary information to split the article back into a separate A/MH-6 Little Bird article, where such a detailed Operational History would be very appropriate? --Born2flie 21:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd support a separate article, either on the 160th SOAR's use of the LB, or on the LB itself. As far as I know,the current Little Birds are new builds, not upgraded or rebuilt early OH-6s. If that's so, then a separate article makes sense, as they do have different missions that the original OH-6s. If we do split off the LBs, then I'd support renaming this page as the OH-6 Cayuse, the early model's official name, with "Loach" in quotes in infobox, as now. As for the new article, A/MH-6 Little Bird would work. - BillCJ 05:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that addressing the variants, it would look a somewhat like the OH-58 Kiowa article which addresses several rebuild and reconfigurations over the history of the aircraft. I concur with all of your suggestions. --Born2flie 18:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

text: After a couple of false starts, I've crearted the spin-off page at the old MH-6 Little Bird ariticle. Talk:A/MH-6 Little Bird seemed to think it was a subpage of Talk:A, so I didn't stick with that one. However, If that bug causes no problems, we can still move the new page to A/MH-6 Little Bird if we want. - BillCJ 07:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now what to do with the H-6 redirect, continue to redirect it to OH-6 Cayuse or to a disambiguation page? --Born2flie 10:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Since we how have at least 3 articles on H-6s, I think a DAB page at H-6 is warranted. Otherwise, we just leave it as a redirect to OH-6 Cayuse, since it is the original H-6 helicopter model. - BillCJ 17:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too much info on specic operations

message: BillCJ, needless reversion is akin to vandalism.  Be helpful.  Spot a copyvio, then edit.  Need to move something, then move it.
Just deleting people's efforts makes you a less than helpful individual.  If you want to add/edit/modify/move text, than do it.
You're not the only wikieditor around, try not to *own* the articles.
kthxbye 130.76.64.93 (talk) 00:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The AH-6S info was moved to Boeing AH-6 if you'd bother to check. -Fnlayson (talk) 01:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Fnl. Mr. IP, the AH-6SA is being covered on the Boeing AH-6 article. There is no need to cover it here. In addition, this page is about the Hughes OH-6 models, which were never built by Boeing. There are 5 or 6 articles for the OH-6 and Hughes/MD 500, each on a specific group of variants. I removed you item because I was moving it TO the AH-6 page. I mentioned the copyvio becasue you need to be careful not to copy from copyrighted material. So I did not just delete your efforts, but put them in the proper place. Fnl also cleaned up your copyvio, and the revised text is at Boeing AH-6. Please refrain from false accusations of vanadlism before you know all the facts. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 02:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: edited the article and included the following, not to mention "corrected" an image resulting in a redlink. My issue isn't necessarily the content itself, but rather that portions are not OH-6 specific, and appears to be original research, e.g. the author's opinion/experience/personal research.
Again, my intent is to not permanently remove the information from the article, but to refine it and reintroduce it into the article with references. --Born2flie (talk) 21:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The AH-1 is not a gunship, it is an attack helicopter. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE GOOD WORKS 12:05, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dirtbag19 contributions 

message: I would like user BilCat to clarify why he wiped out a major section of The Quiet One. Even the reference/source of "Air America's Black Helicopter" by James R Chiles did shown ROCAF/Taiwan's 34th Black Bat Squadron did took part in this. Unless he's stating that the Taiwan involvement didn't exist.....
My original edit here was done in Sept. 2009, which was based on posts in forum(in Chinese) that was quoting from Clarence Fu Jing Ping's book(in Chinese) on Black Bats published in 2006. Chris Pocock's most recent book published in April 2010, "The Black Bats - CIA Spy Flights Over China From Taiwan 1951-1969" (ISBN: 978-0-7643-3513-6) was co-wrote with Clarence Fu. In the book, Chapter 8: South Asia 1960-1973, page 115 to 118:
CIA again Needs the Black Bats
.....[snips] Col Yu Chuan Wen found himself heading for a third time to the top-secret airbase at Groom Lake in the US. This time, though, it wasn't to fly the C-130(see Chapter Seven). Yu and eight other Chinese airmen were tought to fly the De Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otter.[snips]
After three months of training in precision nighttime navigation nad airdropping over the mountains of Nevada, Yu and his group returned to Taiwan, and the Twin Otter was airfreighted to Hsinchu. After the Chinese pilots received more instruction from an Air America pilot there, the aircraft as fitted with extra fuel tanks in the cabin and ferried to Laos.
During the day, the Twin Otter was flown on routing resupply support missions within Laos by an Air America crew. At dusk, they ferried it to 'PS-44' ---  an isolated guerrilla base on a mountain plateau in southern Laos. [snips]
Back on Taiwan, meanwhile, 12 more Chinese pilots were training on helicopters so that they could fly Commando Raider-style operations in Laos. Col Lu Wei Heng, a C-123  pilot and deputy  commander of the 34th Squadron, was put in charge of the operation, which was codenamed Golden Strike. The pilots were all from other CAF squadrons, and only a couple of them had previous helicopter experience. After some familiarisation flights in UH-1 Hueys at Hsinchu the group were sent to Fort Rucker, AL, and took and US Army's basic helicopter training course.
Six of them then returned to Taiwan, where they were checked out on the Sikorsky S-58T, a twin turboshaft-powered version of the old H-34 troop carrying chopper. It was already being used in Laos. The Chinese pilots deployed to PS-44 later in 1971 and began flying covert missions. They dropped agents and supplies along the border between Laos and North Vietnam. They also hauled some other 'special' cargo --- such as an unattended rocket launcher that could be set up on remote hilltops to fire automatically.
The 'Quite One'
The other six Chinese pilots moved on from Fort Rucker to Groom Lake, where they were introduced to the unique Hughes 500P. This was an extensive modification of the OH-6A Light Observation Helicopter to reduce its noise level to the absolute minimum. This was achieved by adding an extra main rotor blade, making changes to the blade tips, providing mufflers for the air intake and exhaust, and providing the pilot with a control to slow the main rotor speed when required.
The modified OH-6A was named 'The Quite One.' After flight trials and pilot training at Groom Lake, two of them were airfreighted to Taiwan in October 1971. More flight training followed on the unusual choppers, which were now also fitted with sophisticated night navigation avionics. This comprised an AN/AAQ-5 forward-looking infrared(FLIR) system mounted on the nose and cooled by nitrogen supplied by two tanks fixed tot he chopper's belly, plus an inertial navigation system and a LORAN-C set carried in pods fixed on each side of the cabin.
Back in Loas, the Chinese crews were still flying out of PS-44, sharing duties on the Twin Otters and the S-58Ts with crews from Air America.[snips]
In June 1972, the two modified Hughes 500P helicopters were collected from Taiwan by an Air America C-130 and flown to Takhli airbase in Thailand. Here the Quiet Ones were re-assembled and flown to PS-44. Five Chinese pilots followed, led by Col Lu.
The CIA was planning a daring mission into North Vietnam, to place a wiretap on a major military telephone line.[snips]
[snips].....But from aerial photography, US intelligence identified a weak spot where the line ran through remote terrain, near the town of Vinh. The plan was for two Chinese pilots to fly the quiet Hughes helicopters to this location at night. They would carry 2 Lao commandos who would secure the tap while the pilots dropped a radio relay antenna in the form of a net on the top of some nearby trees. Meawhile, two S-58Ts would be hovering across the border in Laos, ready to mount a rescue mission if the Quiet One got into trouble. Above the S-58Ts, the Tiwn Otter would act as a radio relay and command post. The airmen from the CAF 34th Squadron would be flying all these aircraft.
But the Chinese helicopter pilots were having difficulties in Laos. They couldn't get used tot he night vision goggles that were supplied --- a new technology still at the experimental stage. Then they destroyed one of the two modified Hughes choppers during a hard night landing at PS-44. According to Col Lu, the infrared system was not working properly, and the high ground surrounding PS-44 required the two pilots to land the small helicopter downwind at too high an approach speed. The CIA decided to fly the wiretap mission with American pilots instead. All the Chinese airmen --- including those assigned to the S-58T and Twin Otter ---  were sent home.
So, as you can see, what I wrote really did happen, and back up now by Chris Pocck's latest book. I know most of people here can't read Chinese, but that shouldn't be the reason for deleting one's work just because you can't read the source/reference in a different language. Hopefully user Bilcat would retract his statement of me of "incomprehensible material, and has been known to use unreliable sources", which never raise or proven to be the case here. I don't want to start a edit war, just want to set the record straight and clear my name.14:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless of your sources, it's still incomprehensible, and it's far too much detail on a single op. This isn't GlobalSecurity, we don't go in depth in an encyclopedia. If the op is notable, then try creating an article on it. - BilCat (talk) 15:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Feel free to update the existing section with info from the new source. There's nothing wrong with that, but try to keep it close to roughly the same length if possible, not counting the souce data. - BilCat (talk) 15:32, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Quiet One 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: Isn't that world records in class, not absolute? I find it hard to believe that this tiny little low-three-digit horsepower helicopter had and still holds time-to-climb, altitude, and long-range records over much more powerful, larger and newer helicopters. Unless something makes helicopters very different, usually the larger an aircraft is, the more performance it has. That is why the F-15 held altitude records and time-climb records, not the OV-10. 
64.222.109.74 (talk) 10:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  World records