Talk:Grade inflation

message: Surprised not to see the scandal in BC and Ontario of private schools targeting ESL students. Quite a few articles on this, particularly looking at Century High School in Vancouver where most students failed the provincial exam but got As in their coursework.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.218.83 (talk) 23:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Century High School, Vancouver 

message: In reference to the incident at the University of Alabama, this section is very biased. This draws a generalization about the state of the entire UA education system based on a few classes. The average GPA in each major is similar to the national average, which in no way can mean there is "extreme grade inflation" here. In addition, this section has no sources and references an incident that happened 8 years ago.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.67.110.3 (talk) 04:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Rex.  How many courses have you taught?  I've been a professor for over a decade, at 3 different major universities.  I've spent dozens of hours in faculty meetings about this.  I personally know I give higher grades because of it, and almost all of my colleagues admit it too.  Your economic logic about competition is utterly incoherent, by the way.  First, there is relatively little that administrations can do about grading policies except for moral suasion. No one tells me what grades I can hand out.  Second, schools are still in competition with each other, even if overall demand goes up as a consequence of subsidies.  To the extent that administrators can set overall grading policy, they have an incentive to allow high grades.  Why?  Because that's precisely what draws good students.  After all, what determines "value" to a student?  The likelihood of a good GPA, and thus a good job or entrance to med school is very high on the "value" list.  Stanford hands out 40% A's.  That's not because of Pell grants.  Now I'm sure there are some professors who are immune to these pressures, but I personally don't know any. Wolfman 23:36, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: The only thing immoral would be not teaching well and not caring if students learn.  Though ultimately I get judged primarily by my research output, the single thing in my career I am most proud of and most enjoy is working individually with students.  I personally think grades are utterly ridiculous.  It shouldn't be about the grade on a piece of paper, it should be about learning -- and the two are very imperfectly correlated.  I could go on at great length about how corrupt the system is, but I don't think the people involved are.  Neither the students who worry more about grades than about learning, nor the professors who nudge grades up slightly to keep students happy.  The irony of being lectured on morals of all thing by a hardcore Pharisee rightwinger is mind-boggling.  Or was Jesus a Republican? Wolfman 06:44, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wolfman; there is a Chinese proverb which says "If you sit by the river long enough, you see the bodies of your enemies float by". Likewise, by me waiting long enough, you have revealed yourself to be the biased, anti-Christian bigot that you are. Nice going. 216.153.214.94 06:48, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: BTW: What do you teach your students? How to make bigoted comments? 216.153.214.94 06:50, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  its all the fault of the librals!!!
Rex, what do you do that makes you so high and mighty, a janitor?  --kizzle 07:17, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
Ha, Ha, Ha. Economic elitism bigotry - another funny one! 216.153.214.94 15:14, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Yes, grade inflation having happened during the Vietnam war era has led to one cause being attributed to professors keeping deferments from the draft active for their students.  There are other later causes mentioned and this one is somewhat suspected as being a just-so rationale since it didn't affect many folks. (See Colorado study)  But it seems a common mention - see Insider mention of that from NYTimes History of Grade Inflation which cites Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy here, or K12 on Causes of Grade Inflation, or First things.  Cheers Markbassett (talk) 16:43, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Causes

message: as a high school student, i can say it's harder for us here at an ib-based international school in brazil to get A's and B's in comparison to your traditional high school in the US... way harder. We had folks here going for 6-month exchanges at american schools and getting all A's and being offered admission to Yale.. and being mediocre students grade-wise when they came back.
All this is very interesting but for an encyclopedia article there need to be sources to show general trends, not just anecdotal evidence. One could probably find many conflicting anecdotes based on this subject but this would, in itself, prove very little without knowing what general trends exist. I also agree with the point made in another section of this page that the article is too concerned with grade inflation in the United States and its academic institutions and a broader overview of the situation across the world is needed. Perhaps, one could have different sub-sections in the article on the situation in different countries. This might be a terrible idea though - any thoughts?
Hydraton31 19:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  international experience 

message: According to the UC Berkeley Office of Student Research, the average GPA at UCB is actually 3.245 as of Spring 2006, up from 3.077 in Spring 1996. Doesn't sound particularly "harsh" to me.
:I updated the article to include similar information from the UCB website. --orlady 23:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UC Berkeley GPA 

message: "Furthermore, those who use grades in determining life outcomes for a student must act as if grade inflation has not occurred, taking the grades at their old, pre-inflated values - otherwise they could simply adjust and grade inflation would not be a serious issue. This could happen either due to neglect, or due to constraints of the grading system itself. For example, if the grading system stipulates an absolute maximum grade, then the problem of picking out the 'cream of the crop', discussed below, naturally comes into play."
Is Wikipedia telling people what to do or is it making an assumption about the practices of people "determining life outcomes"?  Either way, I'm not sure it's appropriate.  Alex Dodge 06:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia says you should do this. 

message: Another similar phenomena in current academia is "publication inflation" which seems to be very actual. Any resources, links, references on this topic available? What about an article on this issue?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.100.207 (talk) 20:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  And... Publication inflation 

message: Hmm, Grade inflation, or especially diploma inflation, also exist in the Netherlands, where the learning institutions (like universities) get money from the government for each student that enter and also finish his/her education. In a lot of countries in Europe these learning institutions are not financed privately but by the government. So for every student that pass the finish will yield them a profit. Demophon (talk) 04:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grade inflation in the Netherlands

message: Here the problem is to a large part caused by an ideologically driven wish to put as many people as possible through tertiary education. This has two effects: Firstly, more and more students (necessarily with less and less brains) are entering the system. Secondly, the criteria has to be lowered in order that as many of these as possible receive passing grades. The result is a spiral of grade inflation respectively courses with less and less content and thinking.
188.100.204.101 (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also in Sweden 

message: I see the Flynn effect has been mentioned in the article text. I have posted a bibliography of   Intelligence Citations for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in those issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research and to suggest new sources to me by comments on that page. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 16:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to IQ Testing 

message: I don't see a source cited for this argument: 
"The US system still allows for students to thrive by offering courses with honors options as well as awarding valedictorians. Many companies in the US also look at GPA while selecting candidates."
I don't know that this statement is entirely accurate. First off, this article is not exclusively about U.S. Education. But granted that this is largely a U.S. problem, I'll ignore that. It's also not directed exclusively to either college or high school classes. While students can enter Honors programs at colleges, this does not affect G.P.A. Honors classes only exist in grades 9-12 in most public (I can't speak for private) education systems. What about 1-8? And, in most cases where "companies in the US" or colleges, or any other party who has any business looking at your G.P.A., a non-weighted G.P.A. is specifically requested; taking honors--especially Advanced Placement, Dual Credit, International Baccalaureate--courses, which are theoretically more challenging than their standard (and lower education) counterparts, would seem to be a problem in itself regarding G.P.A. On the contrary, many college recruiting programmes specify when applying that they do not look at G.P.A. alone, but rather at the courses a student attempted. Many U.S. public schools no longer name valedictorians, because it makes other students feel "inferior." In the WV education system where I graduated, class ranking is a result of both grades and the number of courses taken. Even assuming every class has an honors section, which does not happen, an honors students who makes decent (i.e. B-average) grades, but took a dual enrollment course which took up two class periods (which does happen) could be "ranked" lower than a regular-level student who learned significantly less while drawing pictures in History instead of memorizing laws, but aced the low-level coursework, failed a semester of a math class and was asked to make up the full year instead (which would eliminate the failing grade but keep the passing grade), and did not have any multi-period classes. The top-ranking student, normally the valedictorian, is not always the most qualified. Institutions, especially educational institutions, have seen this trend (which could be part of grade inflation) and most companies/colleges/universities worth applying to will not look exclusively at Grade-point average. 
College valedictorians are another story entirely, but this is placed under a section of the article referring to many countries at all levels. 
Emolution (talk) 06:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arguments by whom? 

message: Since there is not a separate article for Grade deflation, should one be created, or the information included in this article and the name changed (after all, they are two extrema of the same phenomenon)? 
For example, in Finnish elite universities it is not rare for over 50% of the students fail some _compulsory_ courses. This may or may not be related to the otherwise different education style of Finland, but I think it might be interesting for some people, given that there seems to be some world-wide interest in the education of Finland due to the surprising success in PISA. Of course, in case no other grade deflation information comes in, the above could be included in the Education in Finland article, do you agree?
Parabole (talk) 13:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grade deflation 

message: The section on A-level and GCSE exams is bordering on propaganda. Certain editors have made great use of pieces, including comment pieces, from the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail in order to make it appear as though the question of 'grade inflation' is undisputed. I have made some minor edits but I feel the section is in need of a complete rewrite. I would do this but fear I would be scalded for doing so. Hasbn (talk) 14:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britain section - dubious 

message: As part of the class Global Youth Studies, I am discovering the incredible variation in education throughout the world. Specifically, that there are large achievement gaps between the Global North and the Developing World. This article seems to be speaking from a very westernized perspective. It would interesting to try to incorporate finding about grade inflation in additional countries. In particular, nations such as South Africa may provide an interesting comparison because they traditionally have westernized education systems. It may also be beneficial to add information about the grade inflation in other countries within the Global North but that don't speak English - for example China's education system - as there might be a variation there as well. 
Plumbla (talk) 22:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Look past the Global North 

message: Moved from Talk:Credential inflation#Proposed merger with Academic inflation
This discussion was moved from Talk:Credential inflation#Proposed merger with Academic inflation. The proposal now is
:Merge :Academic inflation, :Credential inflation, :Credentialism and :Credential creep into :Grade inflation.
Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:07, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, and the title should be "Credentialism and degree inflation". Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

text: by moving it back over the redirect, no need for deletion. --Nick⁠—⁠Contact/Contribs 06:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  thanks! I was a little bit too enthusiastic; but alas, one learns from being bold. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: I've been WP:BOLD, merged all the articles, and moved it to a new title. Now there's some cleaning-up to be done. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:02, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Bold move & merge

message: Hm, that was a little bit too bold... could someone please delete Grade inflation, so this page can be moved back, including the merged info, and the talkpage and history retained at the correct page? There-after I shall split this article into "Grade inflation" proper, and "Credentialism and grade inflation", containing a section on "grade inflation." Thanks! And apologies for the extra work. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:32, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: by moving it back over the redirect, no need for deletion. --Nick⁠—⁠Contact/Contribs 06:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  thanks! I was a little bit too enthusiastic; but alas, one learns from being bold. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Too bold

message: I've moved the merged info to Credentialism and grade inflation. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:49, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Credentialism and grade inflation]]

message: The article gives a strong impression of trying to prove that grade inflation is a fact. I'm not trying either to dispute or confirm that this is so, but calling for higher standards of writing, reporting rather than trying to prove a case. In particular, "grade inflation" seems to be used largely synonymously with "grade increases"—only half of the issue. One work cited as a study on grade inflation at Waterloo, saying that it defined grade inflation as "an increase in grades in one or more academic departments over time" missed the important fact that this was a presentation by a PhD-holder (rather than a peer-reviewed paper or equivalent), and that it said "no consensus on how Grade Inflation is defined ... I will define GI as an increase in grades in one or more academic departments over time". Another "study" is someone's Wordpress blog. I haven't removed any of this (I have quoted more accurately), but to be a credible article it must not try so strongly to prove a case. Pol098 (talk) 23:06, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias, POV? 

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message: "Louis Goldman, professor at Wichita State University, states that an increase of .404 points was reported from a survey in 134 colleges from 1965 to 1973. A second study in 180 colleges, showed a .432 GPA increase from 1960 to 1974, both indicating grade inflation."
I'm not American. I don't know what the GPA is, or how it's calibrated. What is ".404 points"? How many points are there altogether? Could we at least have a link to an explanation please? Hundovir (talk) 12:20, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grade Point Average