Talk:Scientology/Archive 17

message: Any suggestions of what sections need to go? Bravehartbear 04:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia has pointed that this page has exceeded its ideal size and sub-subject need in its own pages

message: It is clear that this is a controversial subject and it is imposible to make it 100% un-bias. So I posted a POV check for neutrality. Bravehartbear 15:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which I removed. Most of the edits to the article lately have been by YOU, so why would you complain about the article's POV now? If there's anything in the article that you think is biased, speak up and say specifically what. wikipediatrix 15:14, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok boss I'm working on it. Bravehartbear 21:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: bias

message: I've yet to see any evedence that hubbard was even aware of the american psychological associations stance.
ONE THING I ALWAYS WONDER ABOUT: PEOPLE SEEM TO IGNORE THAT SCIENTOLOGY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE BUSINESS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY, SO OF COURSE IT IS THE MOST VOCAL OPPONANT. IT HAS THE MOST TO LOOSE. . IT CLAIMS TO BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND SUPERIOR SYSTEM AND WAY OF THINKING WITH HUMAN PROBLEMS. THERE IS SOME REASON TO BELEIVE THAT THAT IS TRUE. LOOK INTO REMOTE VIEWING'S ORIGONS. THERE ARE OTHER PIECES OF EVEDENCE, THAT ARE MORE MINOR. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp (talk • contribs) 05:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care. Bravehartbear 04:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It's a copy of the text from the recently archived version of the show effectiveness/hubbard opposition not established topic from this section.  I'm guessing he is looking for further discussion on it, though I'm not sure about what part he wants to discuss or how it relates to the Scientology article.  The original text isn't that clear either, since "it" could refer to either Scientology or psychotherapy at various points.  HiEv 18:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  show effectiveness/hubbard opposition not established 

message: Scientologists are horrible people look what they are doing to this poor people:
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRe0jsfZxr4
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Wn4MtwsN4\
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gde2hdzG8h0
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sNg_v4a4_k
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXa7Sx3FBR4
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVfT-jZw33A
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wPEvESwKs8
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl0b_IaYh34
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-wwVXMPtA0
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McBMe-Ng1xc
I tell you man is a cult and it needs to be stop!
Bravehartbear 06:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Neither Bravehartbear's spamming of this page with youtube videos nor your assertion that the CoS is a cult, have anything to do with the editing of this article. Talk pages are for discussing edits, not idle chit-chat about the subject. wikipediatrix 14:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Bravehartbear, your above comment is not relevant to the article.  Uncivil comments like this are not helpful and only serve to create more conflict in an area already heavy with conflict.  Groups can do both good and bad things, so showing that Scientologists do some good things does nothing to prove that they do not also do some bad things, if that's what you were trying to show.  Darrenhusted, by some definitions of the word all religions are "cults."  Still, the word is prejudicial, and so it is also uncivil.  Everyone, please try to keep your comments civil and on-topic.  Thank you.  HiEv 18:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Scientologist

message: Citation number 45 is a dead link and needs to be removed, and the statement in question needs an actual citation.
71.136.22.96
:I have provided a citation that's not dead, and removed the one that was. Interestingly, there was a valid link there until, well, *coughs* COFS... but that's a story for another time. SheffieldSteel 03:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation number 45 

message: The US state department and the UN have condemned Germany, France and others of religiously persecuting Scientology and other religious groups. The introductions states "However, outside observers—including journalists, courts, and national governing bodies of several countries—have alleged that Scientology is an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses its critics and brutally exploits its members." But this criticisms have been condemned as being unfounded bigotry and prejudice by other groups and governing bodies. And these Scientology critics have been found guilty of being bias against other religious groups too. We must differentiate between a real concerns and just plain hate, bias, bigotry and prejudice. 
The fact is Scientology has been joined by many religious groups, politicians, governing bodies and the UN to counter the anti-cult movement that I consider a hate group. I'm going to expose this point. 
For example in Germany Scientologist:
*have been dismissed from jobs 
*have been dismissed from schools 
*have been dismissed from political parties 
*have been dismissed from social, business and political organizations 
*have been denied the right to professional licenses 
*have been denied the right to perform their art 
*have been denied the right to open/maintain bank accounts and open loans 
*have been denied the right to use public facilities and concert halls 
*are regularly blacklisted, boycotted, vilified, ostracized and threatened simply due to their association with the religion of Scientology. 
Years of monitoring of Scientology by the German government have resulted in nothing.
I intend of creating a whole new section about religious persecution of Scientology and Scientologist. And presenting the support that Scientology has received from other religious groups, governments and the UN to combat this bigotry. Currently I'm working in collecting all the citations. Bravehartbear 14:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have previously been warned about filling the talk pages with LONG diatribes such as this one that are not specifically about a particular edit to the article. Please do not use talk pages to bloviate in this manner. This is not the place to make a speech or to lecture us. wikipediatrix 14:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religious Persecution of Scientology and Scientologist