Talk:Mobile country code

message: ----
I want to inform you that I have changed the structure of article MNC. Now it looks different to that it was before today. So what I have done? First of all I removed table of contest which I think was too large. The list of more than 200 countries was inconvenient and I changed the TOC limits to 2. For the countries list I applied compact table of contest with links only to the first letter of the country. Hope it will not make article worse.
Second, the table width was enlarged to 100%. We don't need to loose 5% for the blank page. The free space is important. Now the table looks like that
MCC	MNC	Operator     	Operational Status	Technology and Frequency (MHz)
000	00 	Operator name	Operational       	GSM 900
It will reduce the double-line cells and (as I know lots of you are printing this page) will be more readable when printing on A4-size paper.
So I tried to do everything to be better than it was and to make our article easier for future updates.
And now the most important thing. It is about updating the article and changing the information of it.
=== Country or territory name ===
All the list of countries is taken from the UN list. If the country is not oficially independent and recognized by other countries in brackets is written which country it is part of. For example today one person created for Kosovo separate headline. I changed it to Kosovo (Serbia). So please, no political disputes here.
=== MCC ===
It is clear. We are writing mobile country codes. In case if country has two or more this codes we are writing it in increasing order.
=== MNC ===
The same in increasing order. If you don't know operator's MNC put "?" sign and write the line in the end of country's list of operators.
=== Operator ===
I suggest us to write only operator's name - name under which it is providing its services (brand). Most of us need new information about it. But operator's previous names and its shareholders we can write in details in this operator's own article. E.g. Orange Moldova S.A. / Voxtel (France Telecom) - we write Orange and put a link to Orange Moldova page. Don't forget that our article is called MNC and we should focus on it rather than on shareholders etc. Especially, in most of cases operator has more than one shareholder.
=== Operational Status ===
Only three:
* Operational
* Not operational
* Unknown
No more information or explanations what had happened with its MNC and so on. I repeat our article is called MNC, and all explanation purposes and history of operator you can write in corresponding article.
=== Technology and Frequency (MHz) ===
I thought it was clear, but as I see it is not. So before writing something please read List of mobile phone standards article. First write standard, then frequency of this standard (e.g. ST1 FR1 / ST2 FR2).
Thanks everybody for future improvements of the article. I hope you will appreciate my work. Waiting for your comments and opinion.--Dima1 (talk) 21:53, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes and updates 

message: I thought it was clear, but as I see it is not. So before writing something please read List of mobile phone standards article. First write standard, then frequency of this standard (e.g. ST1 FR1 / ST2 FR2).
Thanks everybody for future improvements of the article. I hope you will appreciate my work. Waiting for your comments and opinion.--Dima1 (talk) 21:53, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Technology and Frequency (MHz) 

message: * I am strongly against external links, so please keep links limited to Wiki-links. I have removed the few UK links that were there already. -- Egil 17:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: * Should there not also be an entry that shows what type of technology? I.e GSM, CDMA, iDEN etc. There are traces of this already in "Frequency", maybe we could add it there? -- Egil 17:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Technology type

message: * Florianbruch made a well-intentioned attempt to add MDSISDN prefixes to this article (He called them pstns).  I agree with Dima1 that these require their own page, but what should we call the page, and what fields should the table contain?  I'm open to ideas.  David n m bond 00:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MSISDN prefixes

message: I think it would help a lot to clearly state which specs this
list adheres to. Reading the
List of Mobile Network Code (MNC) for the international identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile users
there is a lot less stuff. This list seems to take into 
account the national specific standards, therefore it would
be nice to add a link to all of them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.14.52.82 (talk) 23:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this is all pretty ad hoc. Previously data was available from the GSM Association, but that seems to no longer be the case. The list from ITU seems to be not complete, FWIW. "Network Norway" is one specific case I see immediately. -- Egil (talk) 16:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  clarify relations of this list with the various standards 

message: # I suggest that the very first part of this page shows the current rules that we play by, so anyone new does not have to read the entire discussion. (has been implemented already, please enhance)
# The rules for the name of the operator with parenthesis and slashes are confusing, and as far as I can see they do not work because people do not read the rules. I suggest we have one column that shows the commercial, short name, and one that shows the formal name of the operator. Previous names can be in the notes column, as appropriate. The brand name corresponds to what will be shown as the operator name on a mobile phone.
# There should be an extra column for notes, unstructured comments, references and such. It should be restricted in size and coverage, anything beyond a few words needs to go in the article for the operator proper.
# "Operational Status" renamed to "Status" to optimize space usage for the other columns in the table (in addition it broke the WP rules of use of capitals, anyway).
# "Technology and Frequency (MHz)" should be renamed to optimize space usage for the other columns in the table. One suggestion is "Technology and bands (MHz)", (band is a more accurate term than frequency), which can be further shortened,
To summarize, here is my suggestion:
MCC	MNC	Brand   	Operator                 	Status         	Bands (MHz)        	References and notes
334	03 	movistar	Telefónica Móviles México	Not operational	GSM 1900 / UMTS 850	This is not real data
I can go through with the actual implementation. -- Egil (talk) 09:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with brand and operator columns only. In majority of cases operator's ownews are many companies, but not the only one as you have stated in the example. So it would be impossible to write them all. I suggest to keep only operator's brand names, but additional information about their owners would be available in own corresponding articles of each operator. Everything else is OK. --Dima1 (talk) 21:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  If we agree on Brand, then I still believe we need another column. Maybe operator is misleading, we can call it Owner. The intention is to have the full name of the official owner of the MCC/MNC. Stating only the brand can be misleading. Like in the above example. the movistar brand is used in many countries, but the owner company (or what you would call it) is different. In Mecixo it is Telefónica Móviles México , in Spain TME etc. I believe it is good to show this. The previous explanation said: Owning company can be placed in parenthesis thereafter. Which is basically what I want to achieve with a second column. I believe every MNC/MCC is owned by only one entity. The ITU document states the information (but does not state the brand).  -- Egil (talk) 10:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

text: That adds another column (and extra width) to a table that is already quite wide. It will also be constant for all entries in one country. I suggest we rather make another table that lists the various MCC, and shows the corresponding ISO code. Should not be too hard to do. Maybe one exists already? -- Egil (talk) 18:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is a list in List of mobile country codes. This is where the ISO country code should be added. -- Egil (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This list has now been updated with the alpha two character country codes. -- Egil (talk) 19:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions for enhancements 

message: It is hard to detect vandalism (or even good faith mistakes) in lists like this, and I don't expect the main contributors intend to watch this page in perpetuity. Now that the article is quite mature every new or changed entry should cite a reliable source. Is that OK? - Pointillist (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:RS|Reliable sources]] 

message: Choice Wireless in Texas ( http://choicewireless.biz/ ) appears to be still in business but is no longer listed on http://www.imsiadmin.com/ByHNIns.cfm , neither under its current name nor under the previous Choice Wireless LC, CellularOne of Texoma, or Comtel PCS Mainstreet LP. The company was listed with MCC/MNC 310-630, which is now assigned to Agri-Valley Broadband, Inc. - which is no longer in business. Does anybody know which MNCs were actually used by Choice Wireless and Agri-Valley? - Drahtlos (talk) 20:25, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Choice Wireless Texas 

message: Colorado Valley appears to run an LTE 700 network but I could not find an MNC. Does anybody know? - Drahtlos (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colorado Valley Communications Texas 

message: Please add the Vodafone and Tele2 partnership to Lithunaia and Latvia. 
http://www.tele2.com/media/press-releases/2017/tele2-and-vodafone-announce-new-partnership/
Jahibadkaret (talk) 19:34, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partnerships 

message: This page has 460,460 bytes of markup code; that's ridiculous. As for ; that's why we have Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:49, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree with  and  that the article is very useful as it is. It is widely used among network operators and equipment manufacturers, to the extend that some operators refer to this article in their approval specifications. Equipment manufacturers program the entire list into their devices in order to translate network codes into user-friendly names.  might be onto something with putting the information into Wikidata. But then this article should not be broken up until all the information is in Wikidata in a well-structured way and there is a documented procedure how to retrieve the entire list. As to the usefulness of the current format, I think that the on average about 1500 views per day speak for themselves. Finally, simply breaking the list in half is counter-intuitive to most readers. If you are looking for a specific code then you obviously don't know what letter the corresponding country starts with. In the current list you can do Ctrl-F in your browser to find an MCC. If breaking up the list later, then grouping countries by ITU MCC region would make more sense (i.e. MCCs 2xx in one article, 3xx in another, etc.) Drahtlos (talk) 14:29, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NOTDIRECTORY applies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

text: You're admitting that the views on this page are by automated programs, not actual people. The article may be very useful to some people in some other way but this is an encyclopaedia, and you are making a good case for why this article should be deleted, not simply split. We wouldn't accept an article about the food that's in my fridge even if it's a useful article to me. If people are searching by numerical code rather than by country then there should be another list(s) that is sorted in that way. There are many ways that items in a list can be listed. If we get an influx of IP users and low-edit accounts then at least we will know they are representing telecommunications manufacturers. If the global telecommunications infrastructure breaks down, I will take responsibility/credit for that. In the meantime we can put the whole list on a user page, I would be fine with having it in my user space, and they can run it from there until Wikidata or whatever deals with it. Onetwothreeip (talk) 21:45, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page size and purpose 

message: We are an MVNO and when our SIMs are roaming we receive call detail records (CDRs) with the MCCMNC of the network where the SIM is roaming. We are using this page to show the name of the operators. But we have problems with several operators because they send their own CDRs with differences in the MCCMNC code. For example, 334 030 is Movistar Mexico, but they send us their own CDRs with MCC MNC 334 03. And we have more than millions of CDRs with this coding. We are completely sure which is the network operator when we receive unknown codes because we check it with our providers.
What can we do if a network announces itself with "non-standard" MCCMNC because they remove a zero o something like this? I've tried to edit the page, but of course, it violates the rules. I think a rule can be defined to address these issues. For example, in the comments column, something like "Also MNC --" where -- can have a variable length. And if it is machine readable, it would solve the problem.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dielenram (talk • contribs) 11:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: As I recall, 3-digit MNCs were a US only thing. Everywhere else uses/d 2-digit MNCs. And in practice, major US carriers have MNCs ending in 0 so that they are internationally compatible. For 2 digit MNCs, just add a zero, I guess. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 22:25, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello  Initially only the US used 3-digit MNCs. Back in the day many networks outside the US could route only 2-digit MNCs which forced the US to allocate for GSM networks either MNCs ending in 0 or complete blocks of 10 MNCs (xx0 ... xx9). I don't know if there are still such routing restrictions today. A number of countries in the Americas have switched to 3-digit MNCs (e.g. Canada, Mexico). Some countries even use both 2-digit and 3-digit MNCs (e.g. India, Malaysia). Ten years ago you could fairly safely convert between 2-digit and 3-digit MNCs by adding or dropping a 0 at the end but this is no longer the case. Drahtlos (talk) 14:26, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then that's a good question. I would expect that the MNC allocator, in a region moving from 2 digit MNCs to 3 digit MNCs, would leave the XXO 3 digit MNCs unassigned for backwards compatibility, but I do not know. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 07:15, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences in MNCs 

message: This article is currently the longest article we have, and the simplest solution is to split the article alphabetically, unless there is something else to consider. I have tried to do this, but have been reverted by some who are using this article as a directory for automated programs. Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:17, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If split alphabetically, how long would each article be? Start with the longest and shortest, and an average. Based on this analysis would alphabetical splitting be much help? · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 05:58, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I had split them alphabetically in half, Mobile country codes (A–L) and Mobile country codes (M–Z) which still exist. They are both about 200,000 bytes. I think this is a satisfactory solution and I would like this article to be restored to the ~50,000 bytes version which had links at the top to those two lists. Onetwothreeip (talk) 06:37, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  What is the problem when it is long like it is? is it technical with mediawiki that it does not start serving it? --ThurnerRupert (talk) 03:30, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

text: Split alphabetically into at least four parts; or split by continent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:50, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm neutral on whether this article should be deleted entirely. For now I'm assuming it will continue to exist, and working how to deal with that. Onetwothreeip (talk) 06:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not suggesting to delete the entire article, just that it shouldn't be a complete data specificlly for the purpose of being machine readable as required above, that is Wikidatas purpose. Wikipedia is not a directory and the content is mostly unencyclopedic, the data should be move to wikidata, and the lists reduced to a notable few examples. Gnangarra 11:16, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

text:  can you make an example on wikidata please? here? https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q31623 
How is the content of this list unencyclopaedic when e.g. List of Game of Thrones episodes is considered encyclopaedic? Because of its lower entertainment value? There is literature on how to retrieve List of Game of Thrones episodes programmatically, yet to my knowledge no one has suggested that to be a reason for the deletion of the list. To return to the apparent problem of the large page size, as already pointed out in #Page size and purpose above, a more logical split of the list would be to move the Mobile Network Code (MNC) tables into articles according to their ITU region, e.g. "Mobile Network Codes in ITU region 2xx (Europe)", "Mobile Network Codes in ITU region 6xx (Africa)", etc. (see the intro to the article). The Mobile Country Code article could then have a sortable table of Mobile Country Codes with a link to the respective Mobile Network Code table:
Mobile Country Code	Country  	ISO 3166	Mobile Network Codes
505                	Australia	au      	Link to List of Mobile Network Codes in ITU region 5xx (Oceania)#Australia
-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drahtlos (talk • contribs) 14:48, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

text: You might want to read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS; though it's primarily about deletions, it's pertinent to you query. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:40, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: what makes the dataset notable, and what makes the complete data set in a list encyclopedic. The only argument put forward for its current format is to make it machine readable, that is exactly what not directory is about.  Wikidata is the place for machine readable data sets, the article should be pared back to a more specific group of notable examples.  This is happening with every list from heritage to biota to placenames to cast & crews, even populations. The whole purpose is to make these set data types requiring maintenance in one place and be instantly available to the 300+ language wikipedias. Gnangarra 11:11, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

text: The consensus of this discussion is surely to split the article, if not to remove most of the information altogether. It's very easy to restore the alphabetical split I made, and that can stand until such time as we decide to split the information in some other way, or we decide to remove most of the information altogether. Onetwothreeip (talk) 08:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

text: I see a consensus to split, but not specifically alphabetically, and not necessarily to only two lists. The arguments for regional split are also reasonable. I would like to see stronger reasons for why alphabetical or regional split is preferable, and an actual plan. I don't have any strong opinions myself, just looking for the logic and an appreciation of the consequences. If anything I lean slightly towards a regional split with caveats per SMcCandlish. The stuff should be on Wikidata, but for humans to look up Wikipedia is better, and I doubt that Wikidata quality control is good enough for Wikipedia to draw the data from Wikidata yet. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:05, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: definitely more than two articles, but have yet to see any argument that makes the complete data set notable. WP:NOTDIR still applies whether its one article or 10, Wikipedia is not the place for this information Wikidata is where it can be maintained and drawn into every project as and where appropriate. Gnangarra 07:29, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

text: WP:NOTDIR wikipedia is not intended to list of every possible item just the notable ones. WP:CSC list should only be created if a complete is reasonably short less than approximately 32k, used for navigation or can reasonably be of interest to readers. Gnangarra 04:40, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

text: 2 is a start, should be pared back to comply with WP:NOTDIR, full data set should be transwikied to Wikidata reduced to one article  Gnangarra 04:40, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

text: I would oppose. This is definitely not a WP:NOT#DIR failure; it's entirely consistent with all our other articles on finite sets of technical codes, from FIFA country abbreviations to ISO language codes (which we notably also split into several pages, by subsets: List of ISO 639-1 codes, List of ISO 639-2 codes, etc.).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:51, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

text: I wouldnt oppose it, because the over all topic is notable, its the presentation of content thats the issue.. The table section is definitely WP:NOTDIR, its nothing like the FIFA example which is just country codes, not every sub entity with in each country.  If it was restructured to be MCC 000-900 series and their alpha code as tables in each section as per the article title.  That would mean removal of the MNC code details making this more like the FIFA lists and more acceptable. That would leave more room for notable MNC articles to be linked from the list where more detail about carriers, and various MNC numbers could be explored appropriately in an encyclopaedic way. Gnangarra 08:36, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

text: The community won't delete this article, so it would be pointless to try. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:34, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

text: Size of article greatly improved. No comment on functionality other than I see no obvious problems except the sortable table seems to have a bug. if you sort by countries column then Jamaica appears at number 2, etc. Cheers · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 06:02, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

text: Agree with Peter Southwood except that the sort bugs seem to have been ironed out by the time I came in. I think the lede is inadequate. I did some floundering before finding what it was all about. The lede doesn't have to be long, but a short indication of the meaning plus links to the right sources would be helpful. Something like:  Mobile Country Codes (MCCs) together with the mobile network codes (MNCs) (in combination known as "MCC/MNC tuples") uniquely identify each mobile network operator (also referred to as carriers) using the Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) and related mobile networks. The ITU-T Recommendation ]]E.212]] defines mobile country codes (MCC) and mobile network codes (MNC). I'll leave the details to anyone concerned and better informed than I am. JonRichfield (talk) 13:12, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too long 

message: Sections with empty tables that said something See French Antilles have been consolidated to those sections. The place noted in the section. Gnangarra 15:12, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  see: foo & empty tables 

message: Agreed, the reference you removed is not a very good one. However, is it not better to have a bad reference rather than no reference at all? I could not find any other source for the non-standard MNC that Sure apparently uses on Diego Garcia. Drahtlos (talk) 16:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sure Diego Garcia 

message: So, what exactly is a "mobile country code" used FOR?  Dialing internationally?  Record-keeping?  The article doesn't say.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9000:AC08:A600:2D8A:322A:3E42:E79E (talk) 12:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  No actual definition 

message: Political opinion apart, this list is in contradiction to the metadata on ISO 3166-2 page. Can we please change this entry to make it consistent on Wiki. Devopam (talk) 09:57, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, what should it be? ISO 3166-2:GE lists GE-AB. Drahtlos (talk) 13:17, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section National operators : ISO 3166-2 code for MCC 289 is incorrect