Talk:Brining

message: It is true that everything we know and observe about osmosis seems to contradict th idea that brining makes cells swell with fluid. This last post quoting the article helped clear that up, and I appreciate the experiment comparing fresh and salty water.  There might be other things to consider in explaining the added weight.  The liquid, whether brine or water, may be accumulating in the intercellular spaces, which means it has soaked into the tissue but not the cells, osmosis would have nothing to do with this.  I have looked at hundreds of cells in salt solutions and watched them dehydrate and skrink.  It happens every time.  If you take cheek cells, or any animal cells such as red blood cells and put them in distilled water the reverse happens and they will swell and eventually lyse (burst) from the osmotic pressure.
Both happen because salt ions (or almost any charged molecules) CANNOT pass through cell membranes.  Don't put your lobster in the bathtub to keep it fresh because, as a marine creature, its cells will swell and burst.The same occasionally happens to the cells of a marathon runner's brain when he or she drinks enoughwater they lower the salt concentration of their blood.  The reverse happens when a fresh water fish is put in the ocean, it dehydrates.(check out how sharks keep from dehydrating due to osmosis).  Osmosis will cause cellular water to FLOW OUT when chicken is put in brine.  Also, osmosis works according to the relative concentrations of solutes on either side of the membrane. As far as I know, it does not differentiate between different solutes, such as salt compared to starches, but the water flows to wherever its relative concentration is lower.
Here's the thing though.  These cells are dead.  Living cells will pump water in and out to conteract hyper or hypo saline conditions.  The integrity of cell membranes must change when the cell no longer maintains them.  Also, muscle cells, which we are eating when we eat chicken breasts and legs, are particularly plentiful with calcium ion channels. I rember reading in papers (sorry I forget exactly where but I sure you could find info on this by a search) that Ca+ ion channels in cell membranes are not as selective as they could be, meaning Na+ ions can get through them.  With the cell dead, and as you mentioned the denaturing of proteins in the briny solutions, these cell membrane ion channels (which are made of protein) cannot be functioning as well as they would in a living cell.  They may even degrade entirely and permanently open or close.  This means that a ion channel (the CA+ channel) that is already likely to admit some Na+ ions when working properly is likely to be letting that sodium in.  Its very possible ions are moving into the cells when you brine a turkey.
If the salt ion concentration inside the cells increas due to this process, then the concentration of those other solutes which are still too large to get out of the compromised membrane (such as proteins and starches) would still add to solute total inside, and water would now be at a higher concentration outside and flow in. That last idea though is at a level of speculation that makes me uncomfortable.
Ideas?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.120.198.174 (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Here's another thing to consider''' 

message: The new Brine (food) article, created on 18 December 2013 (UTC) should be merged into this article, because this article already covers the topic. Northamerica1000(talk) 00:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand that the artlice is small and begs to be merged, however brine is used not only for brining, but for other food  conservation as well. Therefore it makes sense as a separate sub-topic. And it has potential for expansion; see the ru: article. (By the way, you did see the tag "under construction, didn't you?) Heck, we have an article for door handle. - Altenmann >t 03:32, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger discussion 

message: The thermodynamics of osmosis: As pointed out above, osmosis moves water TOWARD the salty side of a membrane in an attempt to dilute the salt and reach equilibrium. Water moves, the salts do not move. If you wanted to maximize water movement INTO the poultry you would soak it in distilled water. I reworded that section to show there are two theories about brineing, osmosis and denaturation. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 13:48, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Osmosis 

message: I don't understand why people have started referring to salting meat as 'dry brining'. Brine itself necessarily includes water, as a brine is literally a solution of water with a high concentration of salt. A 'dry' brine would just be salt.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.26.209.190 (talk) 12:43, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Dry brining" is a non-sensical phrase