Talk:Barbra Amesbury

message: To Bearcat,
Peace.  Let me repeat, the only part that is not correct is where you say that following surgery I left the music biz and became a philanthropist.  This is just not so. As I said, the philanthropy came many years later.  And I did not stop writing music and I did not give up the biz.  I write music for film and tv,as well, I produced and wrote all the songs for a new cd that will be out next year that features vocals by Billy Newton Davis. In the future,
 I will keep you up to date so you can make the entries as you see fit.  B Amesbury  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.37.166 (talk) 17:14, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requests for comment

message: Assuming there's some reliable source regarding her being transgender, I think the current version  handles it fine. It isn't outing her if there's already public information about her being transgender. And since she's notable for things before she transitioned, and the songs are still attributed to her birth name, it'd be misleading/confusing to not mention that and the fact that she transitioned. --Mairi 23:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that option 1 is the only conceivable policy for a reputable encyclopaedia. Subjects do not get to censor their own biographies in other respects. Barbara Amesbury was formerly Bill, and while we can say that transgender people were born into what they feel was the wrong physical gender, the fact remains that that was how they used to live. You can change your future but not your past. Incidentally there are other famous transgender people who changed gender after becoming notable: travel writer Jan Morris and bandleader Angela Morley are two British examples. Am about to see if those links are blue or red ... just hold on now ... David | Talk 23:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Jan Morris article has its own problems, I think. "She served in World War II in British Intelligence" but she was a he at the time! I'm tempted to rewrite it, but as this is a sensitive issue I think I'll leave be for now. --kingboyk 21:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's normally proper to refer to a transgendered person by the pronouns of their chosen gender identity, even when discussing periods that precede their transition. The issue in this case has more to do with the presence or absence of Amesbury's old name, and whether the article identifies her as transgendered at all; nobody has suggested at any point that the article should actually refer to Amesbury as "he" or "him". I'd revert or rebuke them if they did. Bearcat 23:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The IP number in question resolves to Toronto...which is admittedly still not definitive, but it significantly increases the likelihood that my initial assumption was correct. Bearcat 01:44, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

text: If the article contains inaccuracies, kindly be specific about what they are. As for interpretations of gender, we somehow have to acknowledge the distinction that the songs are credited to a performer named Bill Amesbury. So how, then, would you propose that we address that fact without simultaneously "outing" her? And can the unsupported assumptions about my "intellectual limitations". Bearcat 23:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Does anyone know who removed the reference to the fact that Amesbury is Joan Chalmers' partner and why? Carolynparrishfan 21:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What particularly worries me is that it seems to be have been an admin decision, as any record of the sentence ever being put in has been removed from the history. Carolynparrishfan 21:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And I am definitely not hallucinating because my user contributions show that I personally edited that sentence on 2 September, 2005 at 20:50 from an earlier version that called Amesbury Chalmers' "friend and colleague". Carolynparrishfan 21:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found your edit in the history, and it can be seen here. It was taken out in this edit by User:Bearcat on January 6th. You'll have to send him a message to find out why it was changed. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 23:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the sentence because the anon blanker was disputing it, so I reviewed the matter and noted that I couldn't find any verifiable evidence in a Google search as to whether they were still partners, or had broken up, or what. So I felt it better to remove it for the time being, and trust that if somebody was able to confirm whether they were still a couple, they'd eventually come along and reinsert it. (Admins don't have the power, incidentally, to entirely strike material from the edit history...if you can't find the original edit, you're just not looking in the right place.) Bearcat 06:59, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Weird blanking