Talk:Definition

message: user:BMF81 has requested that a citation be found for this. By all means, do so if an appropriate source can be found - but I wonder that anyone might actual question this definition? Is there a problem with this wording? See the criteria for requesting citations set out at Wikipedia:Citing sources#When to cite sources Banno 22:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first sentence is essentially a dictionary definition of definition. I have added a link to Wiktionary. --Jtir 23:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ISTM that "concision" is not a necessity. Indeed, whole books have been devoted to the definition of a single concept. (e.g. What is Mathematics? by Courant and Robbins) --Jtir 23:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead section is supposed to summarize the article. Further, if the article is sourced, the lead may not need to be explicitly sourced. --Jtir 23:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A definition is a concise statement explaining the meaning of a term, word or phrase. 

message: I changed the link to point to Oneness, b/c the link to Unity points to a disambiguation page, which to my noobie understanding is against standards.  Banno pointed out that 'Oneness' is a new-age and not a philosophical concept.  So maybe you should find a link target that is more appropriate, or get rid of the link altogether?  --Rog 21:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unity 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: There appears to be a contradiction in the article: extensive definitions are defined as "a list naming every object that is a member of a specific set" but ostensive definitions, while said to be "one important form of extensional definition" are also said to give "the meaning of a term by pointing ... in the case of a class, to examples of the right kind".  The question is: if a definition gives the meaning of a term by pointing to a proper subset (i.e. not all) of a class, can it be an ostensive definition?  If it is not, the last quotation is strongly misleading.  If it is (and Wittgenstein's interest suggests that this is so) then either the definition of "extensive definitions" is incorrect, or ostensive definitions are not a form of extensional definition.  I don't know the answer - anyone?(Mountain Goat (talk) 00:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extensive vs. Ostensive definitions 

message: The article is a high-frequency target for IP vandalism. It is also frequently viewed.  I'm semi-protecting for three month, as per the policy. Vandalism is well over the 5% average.  Banno (talk) 23:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Approaching the last month of this semi-protection. Are there any objections to my making this permanent? I think the value of protection has been demonstrated. Banno (talk) 01:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Banno, please make it permanent. Thank you, --Ancheta Wis (talk) 01:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I suppose we should try unprotecting it again, to see how it goes. Protection in itself is never a good thing. Velho (talk) 23:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: I remember a speech a while back, and the speaker, giving a talk on marketing basics, offered this:
* Subject is a category that point of difference.
He said this definition of a definition was from Socrates, and illustrated it with marketing examples:
* Crest (subject) is a toothpaste (category) that prevents cavities (point of difference).
The idea is that the category is something everybody knows, and the point of difference is how the subject differs from others in the category, and it moves from the known to the unknown, logically. He said this format can be used to define most things, not just marketing stuff:
* A horse (subject) is an animal (category) that has four legs, runs fast, and can be ridden by humans (point of difference).
* A tree (subject) is a large plant (category) that grows several stories tall, has leaves & roots (point of difference).
* Bill Cunliffe (subject) is a jazz pianist (category) who won a Grammy Award (point of difference).
(subject) is a (category) that (point of difference).
Wondering if anybody else has come across something similar in philosophy, about this, and if it should be here in this article?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:55, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition of a definition

message: Is there a term for definitions which say what something is not (i.e., that work by excluding everything other than the thing in question)? Cesiumfrog (talk) 03:28, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is revealing that googling for "exclusionary definition" yields nothing that Cesiumfrog would have sought above. Apparently just adding a qualifier fools the search software that the qualifier is the concept being sought. So, Cesiumfrog you have a different POV than most. Keep it up and you will discover something for the rest of us. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 13:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  negative 

message: Even natural languages are supposed to consist of words (phrases, etc.) that are known to the community in a recursive fashion. Thus what is not known is explained by connecting it to something known. No word is possible to remember for long without any association to anything at all, and most words are learnt by associating them according to the triangle of term, concept and referent. Thus a term is defined in relation to a referent, and a referent is tagged or labelled by a term. Knowing this relationship is the simplest form of making a definition. Thus if nothing is known about the referent of a noun (term), then it is used with an indefinite article, but when it is already known, it is used with a definite article. Knowledge is specific, hence generic terms need to be specified, i.e. defined in order to make sense, or to learn something useful about them. The specific-generic continuum is the illustration of progress of inquiry and knowledge, each time giving another definition of something in the form of topic and comment. Topic is the known part of the compound structure and comment is the new information about the topic. Topic and comment may come in the form of a description or in the form of an explanation.
If we are listening and reading we begin with Description and proceed to Explanation. If we are speaking and writing, we begin with Explanation and proceed to Description. This is called the DEED paradigm created by David Crystal.
 
Genezistan (talk) 23:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition as knowledge 

message: In a lengthy exercise on definition by Professor Norman Swartz , Simon Fraser University  http://www.sfu.ca/philosophy/ the author says  (Under 2.1, near the end) “For example, the term, "pain", is defined, but pain itself is not defined. We define only terms, never their referents.” 
The rest of the discussion is moved to my homepage Genezistan
Genezistan (talk) 11:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This stuff should not be on a talk-page.  I suggest you enter into a dialog with Swartz directly, but if you insist on having it in Wikipedia, why not keep it on your user-page or write an essay? Hpvpp (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of definition criticised 

message: Some definitions are simply chosen for practical purposes, notably conciseveness. These definitions can't be right or wrong, they only differ in practical value. Being generally accepted is a plus, but not a need.
A typical example are legal definitions, often listed in an initial section in a statute. The legal defintion may be more precise than the collquial definition, or more restricted, or even wider. For instance, in common parlance an invention is something new, but an "invention" in patent law is not necessarily new.
Perhaps this type of definition is covered by the paragraph "working definitions", but I guess the practical importance requires a better description. Also, a "working definition" suggests that it is preliminary, while for instacne legal definitions definitely are final. Rbakels (talk) 14:05, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definitions as a choice 

message: I very much appreciate this article and thank the editor for the time dedicated to it.
Regarding the following quote from it: "An extensional definition would be a list of all past, present and future prime ministers."
With very few exceptions a list of future prime ministers is not doable. 
FactotumGeek (talk) 18:54, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  list of future prime ministers? 

message: Just to say -- that I find this stuff stunningly interesting.  The caliber of interconnected comments foments a major revolution in the science of clear and parsimonious thinking.  "Who are these guys, anyway?"  We start connecting classical philosophical questions with computer science models and issues regarding classes and taxonomy -- and for me, the nature of distinction and dimensionality, from which imho all this stuff can be constructed -- and we are pushing for something astonishingly simple in the amazing forest of complexity.  This is my first post/comment on Wikipedia, and I just gotta thank somebody for how brilliant this all is.  And maybe "definition" for me, gets right to the heart of it all.  My instinct is -- construct all semantic space from the single primitive element "distinction".  In other words -- build all definition as something like "composite dimensional assemblies of distinctions" -- such that every object in the system is constructed from ("defined in terms of") that primitive element (and maybe that ultimate primitive is something like the Dedekind Cut in the real number line?).  This review of definition -- particularly stipulative definition -- is so helpful, and the examples so resonant with my own instincts.  Thank you.
Bruceschuman (talk) 23:48, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Much appreciation, definition and distinction 

message: I do know that the definiendum is not supposed to be in the definition itself. What is the name of this rule? 189.226.211.250 (talk) 17:31, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The golden rule of definitions 

message: This article would be a good place to define 'definiens' and 'definiendum'.  'Definiens' is used without explanation.  86.164.173.122 (talk) 19:05, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definiens & definiendum 

message: I just corrected a few minor mistakes in the above-mentioned subsection. But I think the entire paragraph is a bit shaky in respect of its content.
In particular, the explanation "An existing definition that serves as a portion of the new definition" for "genus" seems a bit idiosyncratic to me. To my mind it would be more classical to say that the genus is something (a notion, concept, idea,  or whatever you want to call it and whatever it turns out to be) that is already defined, that is: for which a definition already exists. Though I'm not even sure about that: Does it need to be defined. Is it not often the case that it is simply assumed that its meaning is clear?
Futhermore: "Bussler, Christoph, and Dieter Fensel, eds. Artificial Intelligence: Methodology, Systems and Applications: 11th International Conference, AIMSA 2004: Proceedings. Springer-Verlag, 2004. p.6" is hardly the best reference we can find. This is taken from conference proceedings in AI, surely we can find a logic-textbook.--TheseusX (talk) 22:02, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classes of intensional definitions 

message: It means diverting buying thoughts. Rnbmbaml (talk) 16:19, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convention 

message: Do you think we should add a section on the etymology of the word 'definition'? It's a bit fascinating and to me, and a misnomer. The root latin word is 'finis' - which in Latin means "end." However, defintions have changed, so they are not really "bound" or "brought to an end."
Any thoughts? RyanDanielst (talk) 22:04, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of 'Definition' 

message: In the fallacies of definition section, it states that 'antecedent' clearly cannot be defined without the use of 'consequent', and conversely. This does not seem clear to me at all - it seems not only unnecessary, but circular. Dictionary.com defines antecedent as "a preceding circumstance, event, object, style, phenomenon, etc." and consequent as "following as an effect or result; resulting (often followed by on, upon, or to)". Neither of these definitions make use of the antonym. Nautilus 06:08, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The sequent article defines the case of a standalone 'consequent', without 'antecedent'. You could use this as a counterexample for the  statement that " 'consequent' clearly cannot be defined without the use of  'antecedent'. "  --Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 10:58, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

text: What if we were to strike 'nor conversely' in #2 of the 'fallacies of definition' section? --Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 13:07, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antonyms 

message: Why can't there be a quid rei of "hobbit"?  That is (to say much the same in different ways):
*Does the possibility of a quid rei depend upon actual existence or only upon suggested existence, even if actual existence is denied (fiction)?
:*Why should there be a quid rei of "horse" but not of "unicorn"?
*If the possibility of a quid rei depends upon actual existence, how can there ever be a hypothesis?
:*Was there no quid rei of "black swan" before one was found? Errantius (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nominal definitions vs real definitions 

message: In the "Problems" section:
Change: "For this reason, Locking adds ..."
To: "For this reason, Locke adds ..."
That reverts this edit, which changed "Locke" to "Locking".
--50.53.35.207 (talk) 00:33, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: RudolfRed (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2021 

message: lol User:Muboshgu what is the definition of recession?
105.160.91.231 (talk) 05:38, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You can participate in the discussion at Talk:Recession. Schazjmd (talk) 14:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Background note for other editors: :Jack Posobiec, among others, has been tweeting a faked version of this article, in which the lead has been changed to , possibly to poke fun at the edit storm on :Recession. Hundreds of other twitter users have taken the hoax as fact.  Schazjmd (talk) 14:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

text:  Discussed today by the USA Today fact-checking team. —scs (talk) 18:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  what's the definition of "recession" 

message: The definition of definition is basically meaning the meaning of a word. For example, the definition of tall means a suggestively high person,thing or object and so on.
: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 08:21, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2023 

message: Motion capture collects a large volume of accurate data on a subject's movement and then creates an Avatar.  If you analyze this data with the best Science has to offer, you can make advancements for the betterment of the world.  Hence the portmanteau AvaSci. Mocapforbetter (talk) 21:07, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  AvaSci 

message: A definition is a carefully crafted statement that reveals the inherent nature of a subject. It pinpoints the intrinsic qualities that distinguish the subject, whether it is abstract or tangible. For abstract concepts, a definition aids in understanding. For tangible entities, it permits identification GPC (talk) 19:25, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: And in an ostensive definition which is worked-through by participants in a mutual process, the participants can reach an agreement among themselves, by treaty. One advantage of such a process is that unspoken assumptions by the respective participants can be unearthed. See Penrose triangle, in which ground truth is exposed as a projection, or perspective, or model. -- Ancheta Wis    (talk  | contribs) 09:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here's a definition of definition