Talk:Superman (Earth-Two)

message: Added Superhero box and informartion about his first Silver Age apparance, but I can't find information about who were the artists or writers of that issue. --Ace ETP 00:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found it...Editor: Julius Schwartz, Cover Artist: Joe Kubert, Writer: Dennis O'Neil, Penciller: Dick Dillin, Inker: Sid Greene. I'm guessing only O'Neil and Dillin get credit for the creation/re-imagining of this character, right? Are inkers and editors usually credited with the creation of characters? --Ace ETP 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Silver Age apparance 

message: I think that since there exists a section on the character in other media (common among superheroes of every sort) we should discuss what does and doesn't constitute an appearance of Kal-L in other media.
1) Since Kal-L is--or represents--the original version of Superman, one might argue that ALL of Superman's non-comics vehicles count.  However, everything that follows the first TV series is clearly based more on the Silver Age version of the character.  However one can counter saying Kal-L is Kal-L because he is a version of Superman that specifically represents the Golden Age Superman.
2) At this time, the video games are included as there are unlockable costumes that are clearly based on looks that distinguish Kal-L from Kal-El.  In Superman Returns, you can unlock the costume he wore in the first issue of Superman (vol. 1); while in Justice League Heroes players can "purchace" a skin that obviously resembles Kal-L in later years and is identified as his "Infinite Crisis" costume.
3) Also included here is a character that's purely BASED on Kal-L and another character from Justice League unlimited.  As Kal-El is also based on Kal-L, this lends further creedence to the idea that later versions should be included.
4) Once included were the early Max Fliescher cartoons, as people obviously associate that version with Kal-L.
5) At one point, I had it put in the article that the Kirk Alyn and, to a lesser extent George Reeves versions were arguably Kal-L.  There are differences, but both are very similar to a novel published in 1952 that may or may not spell Kal-L's name with no E.  In said novel, his parents' names are Sara and Eben as they are in the series and serials, but this was not the case with Kal-L.  Chronologically, the Superman serials take place toward the end of the Golden Age by some definitions thereof.
6) Whether a comic STRIP and a comic BOOK are two different media is perhaps controversial.  However, in that event, the comic STRIP Superman of the Golden Age is clearly the same as in the comics, with often the same stories being used in both.
7) It is tempting to label the radio series' Superman a version of Kal-L based purely on chronology.  However, the differences between Kal-L and Kal-El (e.g. the names of the Daily Star being changed to the Daily Planet, and the name of George Taylor being changed to Perry White) were introduced in this.  Furthermore, the radio series is unique in that Superman arrived on Earth as an adult, according to some sources.
8) Obviously no live action or animated version can lay claim to being Kal-L as opposed to Kal-El if (a) it's revealed that he grew up as Superboy or b) if Ma and Pa Kent lived into his adult years.  Perhaps even taking place at such a time when Superman could not have been an adult during World War II disqualifies a given vehicle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epiphone83 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this all stems from a presumption made after the 1969 introduction of the character, the only appropriate citations under "Other media" would be appearances after that date and actually referred to as the Earth-Two Superman. Everything else is "Superman in other media" and should be dealt with in the "Cultural impact" section of the parent article. — J Greb 14:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Other Media 

message: Now the Earth-One superhero (Kal-El) had super hearing powers. However, I'm not sure if this one does too. Can someone verify if he and Supergirl (and any other "Superpeople") have such an ability so that I may add :Category:Fictional characters with the power of advanced hearing at the bottom? Thanks! Power level (Dragon Ball) 09:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advanced hearing powers? 

message: User:Netkinetic and I have, for the past few days, been engaged in an editing conflict in this article. It started with his removal of two or three "citation needed" tags, with his comments in the history page dismissing their need for them by alluding to the stories where such uncited occurrences had taken place. I undid his revision, noting the unhelpfulness of "shrugging off" the need for citations, and telling him to add footnotes if he knew the issues where the events had happened. He then reverted my edit, stating that there were "several" sources. I took the article back to its previous form, stating that no part of Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research or Wikipedia:Reliable sources tells editors not to cite something if there are several sources (as only a single reliable one is needed). In featured-level and good articles, even widely known facts which no one would doubt are referenced (e.g.:  In Watchmen, Moore shows a "grittier" side to the conceived notion of the superhero.) He again reverted my edit, with the following comment in his edit summary "not every single solitary statement in Wikipedia is cited...if so articles would look much more cluttered than they already are". Not every single solitary statement is Wikipedia is cited, but isn't it desired by the community that they were? Even if it isn't desired, aren't all featured articles, specially comics-related ones such as Watchmen or The Adventures of Tintin, in essence, "cluttered" with references at the end of every paragraph? With the only unreferenced sentences without "citation needed" tags being those which mention something which can be gathered from a previously mentioned source? I can only repeat what I said in my subsequent edit summary "You've already broken the 3-revert rule. The fact of the matter is that there is policy for citing works of fiction, but no policy stating that three footnotes 'clutter' articles". I had wrongly believed "the three-revert rule" to be something along the lines of "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on page were his edits are being contested" rather than the correct  "An editor must not perform more than three reverts, in whole or in part, on a single page within a 24-hour period". Netkinetic then appeared to use my misconception of the rule as a justification of his next reversion of my contributions, apparently disregarding my reiterated demonstration that he was violating the guidelines which make up WP:A. I again reverted his edits by stating that "Citing sources is Wikipedia policy, avoiding cluttering of footnotes (something present in all FAs) isn't", and procceeded to write up this talk page post presenting the situation and requesting mediation. While I fear Netkinetic might misinterpret something I've said as a personal attack, let me say that I have complete confidence that this issue can be resolved amicably and I'm inviting him to fully express his viewpoint on the matter, and that despite his reverting of some of my Template:superherobox edits which had nothing to with what we were disagreeing on, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he just hadn't noticed I had edited something else in the article. --Ace ETP 03:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That these guidelines are valid is not in question, however that is a straw man argument towards the core discussion. Only select statements within this article are asked for WP:V when it has several unsourced statements. Why select a few threads when the entire haystack has evidence of this? Netkinetic (t/c/@) 04:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting mediation 

message: Was the move to Kal-L appropriate?  I believe he is still usually referred to as "Superman", so "Kal-L" is not accurate. Rhindle The Red (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate your concern, and he is based of the Superman archetype so it would typically make sense. However, seeing how naming convention is applied elsewhere for such characters the current incarnation is appropriate for Wikipedia at this time.Netkinetic (t/c/@) 02:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you point me to some examples? Rhindle The Red (talk) 03:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe there was also a discussion on this, to distinguish regarding the general Earth-1/Earth-2 character conflicts. Because this one was a major character in Infinite Crisis, it was decided to label it differently. I'd check WP:COMIC for more on the matter. That group could direct you to the best discussions thus far, I'd think. ThuranX (talk) 04:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I support a move to either one (never agreed to "Kal-L" in the first place). Actually, how are most page titles for fictional characters formatted? Consistency should be the goal here. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At first they were distinguished by secret identity (hence "Kal-L" here). However, that is a hinderance to anyone who's not a hardcore comics fan, so there's been a push towards naming the article by the superhero name while putting the secret ID in parenthesies. Superboy (Kon-El) is the most relevant example. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If that is the trend and that trend is supported by overridding voices in WP:Comics, that is fine with me.Netkinetic (t/c/@) 05:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "Superman (Earth-Two)" would be the most appropriate name, because he was created expressly to be the Earth-Two counterpart of "our" Superman, and, disregarding the fictional construct of continuity, "our" Superman was called Kal-L too back in the early 1940s. In short, it's more straightforward, clearer, less confusing, and less fancruft-y. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I know that this was previously discussed, but I can't recall where. It might've been part of the WP:COMIC DC Earths talk, there was one with respect to the 52 storyline and such ... I believe that this was a special case because the character crossed Earths, and because for a time it was explained that this was the golden age Superman, but now, really, it's far more like a Silver Age Superman who actually 'progressed'. That said, I'd be ok with Superman (Kal-L) if only I wasn't do doggone sure that somewhere in the recent past, this knockdown drag-out fight didn't just happen.  Someone really needs to find it and do the research, I certainly can't until probably the weekend. ThuranX (talk) 12:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless if there may have been previous discussions, I've ntoied a lot of page naming discussions fail to take into account general Wiki naming guidelines--that is, naming an article so people who may not know much about the subject can find it. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, which can we decide on once and for all: Superman (Kal-L) or Superman (Earth-Two)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer "Superman (Earth-Two)". WesleyDodds (talk) 23:56, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Superman earth Two, with Superman Kal-L and Kal-L redirecting here. ThuranX (talk) 03:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, Superman (Earth-Two) (like there is Batman (Earth-Two)). Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I also support the above suggestion by WesleyDodds and ThuranX.Netkinetic (t/c/@) 04:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Superman earth two or superman kal l?Brian Boru is awesome (talk) 02:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wesley, it would be my pleasure to do the updates. However, what name has the majority agreed with? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wesley Dodds, myself support earth Two, and you and netkinetic have voiced support for our ideas, so Superman (Earth-Two) seems right. ThuranX (talk) 08:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why was the page was moved to Superman (Earth Two)? Didn't we agree on the variant with the dash, Superman (Earth-Two)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, he missed the  hyphen. so move it, right? ThuranX (talk) 05:23, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of the Article

message: I am now questioning the dablink, and am considering a removal. Do people really often mistype Kal-L, Kal-El, Kell-El, etc., when looking for a specific Superman character? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:14, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just leave it. AniMate 06:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, but I'd like to know if there is such a common misconception. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Kal-El/Kal-L might help comic geeks out, the rest of the populace is unlikely to use either term, and then there's the matter of this guy, who has another situation entirely. I say leave it. ThuranX (talk) 11:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the reason for the redirect in case anyone was unaware. Might I suggest we add Kell-El to the hatlink? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we really need the hatnote? 

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 17:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: He has a toy coming out, Earth Two Superman, Black Lantern.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.144.253 (talk) 01:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Blackest Night

message: What the fuck? His first appearance was Action Comics #1, not JLA #73, as he's the Golden Age Superman! - 190.138.5.173 (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite. The Earth-Two characters often don't directly match the ones who appeared in the whole of the Golden Age - usually they're composites of various features that differentiate them from the Silver Age versions and sometimes the precise combination had never actually been seen in the Golden Age itself. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: WTF?

message: The character's fictional character biography sounds more like the publication history, that should be changed and the character's publication history added to the article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:51, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Publication History?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Hi, it seems that supes got new power in june: wine breath. This is probably an autocorrect issue, and if someone wants to fix it, since i dont want to mess with the article, that would be great. 188.238.174.71 (talk) 01:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wine breath