Talk:End-user computing

message: I think that the edits of April 22 were a good step, except that they didn't account for the connotation that I was trying to use. I used “end-user computing” since we have had this discussion many times in IT. Here on 'wiki', there may a larger framework (around EUC) that will cover the range of connotations may need to be covered. 
When  I started this page, I was trying to describe KBE’s impact on Engineering. One example was the use of ICAD which had remarkable payback events that were sustained over several years. One characteristics of the type represented by the KBE example is how engineers actually did their work with what could be called a development language which had been extended with 'domain' particulars. 
The main point about this connotation is that the 'user' and 'developer' roles are intermingled. In the current vogue for KBE, the language is VB; however, the language is used within a context of an interactive and highly-competent set of workbenches. The idea is that the end user (we might use SME here) has access to this power. This use of VB is not unlike that of an Excel/VBA session. In this newer KBE approach, though, any extensions to the systems that are required to support this type of end-user computing is C++ based and requires extensive training and development knowledge. One might say that venturing into this side of the field really takes one away from the SME role. 
Further, I've heard it said many times that it's easier to take an expert (domain) and teach them computational tricks than it is to teach domain knowledge to the computer expert. A demarcation between the domain and its tools is important in this regard. 
Yet, at the same time, we have to discuss the growing incursion of computational modeling into all of the higher-order disciplines. In this case, the computer as a tool actually is part of the thinking process (we can take this as far as experimental mathematics – I can provide links). Then, we would need to describe how having the computer involved both augments and limits the solution process. 
Now, the April 22 edits mentioned the influences that we’ll see from the growing presence of Internet/Intranet capabilities and applications. I thought that was a good touch and ought to be expanded further. 
So, the question now is how to merge these two threads into something coherent, such that the gaps are obvious such that we can get them filled in. jmswtlk 01:35, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The page needs to consider the range of disciplines and user types that may be involved, including impacts on foundational views. jmswtlk 18:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's in a name? 

message: Is "End-user computing" an established term within one discipline? If so, the intro section should establish context and explain to which discipline it belongs. If not, the article should cover all possible meanings of the "End-user computing" expression. Sincerely, the current first sentence was unintelligible. I've tried to add a lay-term explanation, but I'm not sure if this is describes the contents of the article since the prose is hard to follow. Diego Moya (talk) 12:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Wha???

message: Series of research books about End-user computing: http://www.idea-group.com/bookseries/details.asp?id=3
phoebe 21:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps, it's time for a rewrite that has more use of citations. jmswtlk 17:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: As researcher in the end-user programming/development area I find this entire wiki entry to be very confusing and even misleading. The initial author states "When I started this page, I was trying to describe KBE’s impact on Engineering." This is not a good starting point for this kind of page. End User computing is a much more general concept. Sure, SQL and VB may qualify as examples of end-user computing but it is much more important to capture some kind of meaningful definition of what end user computing is and could be. Examples are important but certainly will have include a much broader range of applications including web app with end-user computing support (e.g., Yahoo Pipes), spreadsheets, email filters, photoshop actions, ...etc.
I am sorry but neither the content nor the structure of this article works well. For instance, under the heading of research there is a discussion of internationalization. I the Wiki spirit one could just rewrite bits and pieces but I think one would have to really start from scratch here. Some books (e.g., End-user Computing: Concepts, Methodologies, Tools and Applications) and journals are forthcoming. Perhaps these would serve as a better starting place than the original authors reflections on personal experiences with specific technologies. 
Do not understand me wrong. These are some good points being made here but I advise to reboot this entry and start from scratch.
:Have at it. The page currently has more of an operational flavor than it could have for several reasons. As mentioned in the above section "Sources" where this same topic was brought up, we need a re-write with citations and ought to balance the academic and the 'practice' viewpoints. Plus, a look at the history of who owns computing (and the related thought, for that matter) might have some consideration. IMHO. This topic is not as trivial as it might appear. jmswtlk 14:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  this page needs a reboot  

message: Per wp:preserve, let's point out that this revision removed a lot of unreferenced content. Diego (talk) 14:42, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content cleanup