Talk:Management of hair loss

message: Why has this text been removed/changed? It is widely beleived that the Lasercomb is medical quakery. Has the new edit been the result of the page editor finding new evidense/research or is this advertising by the manufacturers.
"There is some debate over the FDA's acknowledgment of the Lasercomb.[24] Under the looser standards applicable to medical devices, the HairMax LaserComb was cleared by the FDA as being "substantially equivalent" to predicate devices legally marketed before May 28, 1978. The devices that the lasercomb proved itself equivalent to were a variety of FDA approved non hair growth/laser based devices intended for hair removal and pain relief, and two non FDA approved non laser based/hair growth devices such as the Raydo & Wonder Brush and the Vacuum Cap. These last two devices were sold in the early 1900s and are well established as medical quackery, but they were legal to market at the time which does satisfy the FDA's minimal 510k SE criteria. The 510k number for the Lasercomb is K060305."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.123.140.77 (talk) 01:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  low level light 

message: This section seemed questionable to start with.  It can be reinstated with a proper citation.  However, even if a verifiable source exists, I would probably weaken this section by stating that there is some evidence that apple juice and coffee bean spray helps, but not enough to make it mainstream medical thought.  Of course, if it's mainstream already, let's see more sources please.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The latest research on MPB (Male Pattern Baldness) has found that apple juice can help to regrow hair and that hair loss may be caused by a lack of Vitamin D. For women a new spray containing coffee beans has come onto the market that has been shown to stop hair loss "by soothing the scalp, reducing the inflammation that damages hair follicles."
SkepticVK (talk) 08:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed '''Latest Research''' 

message: DHT: the full story
this link is dead
--Wiserd 11:01, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  dead link 

message: Could someone source these recommendation. I've removed them for now. If you have a source, please provide and reinsert. 
I'm not arguing against them. But they need sources. We have to be careful not to advertise products as much as provide
well-sourced information on the ingredients in those products and how they interact. "Everything else" is a very broad claim. 
 The most recommended treatments, in order of proven effectiveness, greatest to least, is as follows: 
 (1) Propecia (2) Rogainee (3) Tricomin (4) Topical Spiro 5% (5) Revivogen (6) Crinagen (7) Folligen (8) Everything else.
 For those in the early stages of hair loss, it is generally recommended to start slow, using propecia alone for at least a year, as it has very good maintenance rates, then adding other products, such as minoxidil, if regrowth is desired.
--Ryan Wise 04:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  recommended treatments 

message: this paragraph contradicts itself:
"One explanation for the relationship between lifestyle and male pattern baldness is that lower caloric intake along with more aerobic exercise can decrease insulin levels, resulting in a host of metabolic adjustments which contribute, in the end, to hair loss. Insulin downregulates sex hormone binding globulin. In individuals with moderate levels of SHBG, SHBG would bind to testosterone and helps prevent it's conversion into DHT in the scalp via 5-alpha reductase. But in individuals with lower levels of SHBG, more testosterone is left to float free in the bloodstream and thus be converted into DHT in the scalp. Levels of DHT in the scalp are a key factor in male pattern baldness. This link between diet, insulin, SHBG, androgens and baldness helps to explain recent studies which have shown that early male pattern baldness is an indicator for various metabolic and cardiovascular problems. In other words, diabetes, hairloss and cardiovascualr disease may all be linked to high caloric intake and low exercies." Dreamer.redeemer 06:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the catch. Fixed. 
--Ryan Wise 15:05, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text: should it be "prostatic hyperplasia?"
--Ryan Wise 15:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  self contradiction 

message: I agree that there are numerous indicators that MPB rate of progression has a genetic component due to androgen receptor polymorphisms and distribution, 5-alpha reductase levels in the scalp, total testosterone, mean free testosterone and so forth. 
However endurance exercise decreases inflammatory response, baseline total testosterone and baseline free testosterone. It decreases free testosterone both by reducing baseline total testosterone and also by increasing levels of SHBG which further decreases free testosterone. Free testosterone and not total testosterone determines the amount of T converted to DHT. I'll assume I don't need to provide support for the assertion that lowering DHT will help treat MPB? Please note that strength training has the effect of raising, not lowering, free testosterone and relevant studies should specifically indicate aerobic exercise. 
Aerobic exercise has been shown to lower free and total androgen levels in animals and humans. 
--Ryan Wise 03:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  genetics vs. lifestyle and MPB 

message: Someone keeps inserting the claim that saw palmetto has no beneficial effects on male pattern baldness despite the fact that I gave three references to medical publications proving it. 
:Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens) is an herbal DHT inhibitor often claimed to be cheaper and have fewer side effects than finesteride and dutasteride. Unlike other 5alpha-reductase inhibitors, Saw Palmetto extract works without interfering with the cellular capacity to secrete PSA.  
:Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens) is an herbal DHT inhibitor often claimed to be cheaper and have fewer side effects than finesteride and dutasteride. Unfortunately despite many claims made by snake oil salesmen, it has no scientific evidence backing it as a hair loss treatment, whatsoever. All studies done on it have established that it is beneficial for prostate conditions, but failed to reduce serum DHT levels to a sufficient extent to affect hair loss in a positive manner.
::Saw palmetto extract has been demonstrated to inhibit both isoforms of alpha-5-reductase unlike finesteride which only inhibits the (predominant) type 2 isoenzyme of alpha-5-reductase.  	 	 
And saw palmetto is, demonstratably, cheaper than finesteride. This isn't a claim. Do I need to provide references to support this too?! 
There's no reason to delete the references that show that saw palmetto inhibits both 5-alpha-reductase isoenzymes except to support a biased POV. If you want to add references to show that saw palmetto cannot possibly prevent MPB please do, but unsupported statements that saw palmetto is sold by 'snake oil salesmen' are POV and deserve to be deleted. 
--Ryan Wise 03:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saw Palmetto defacement 

message: Why are patrick stewart and yul brynner's photos used in the article for baldness TREATMENTS? I hardly think it is fitting to use them for such a page!!! :D
Saw Palmetto id no good to my balding pate and ruined my sexual capabilities for the 2 years I tried it. medical intervention by an urologist could only help me reverse the situation. Any body removing article eficacy of Saw palmetto is absolutely justified.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.118.215.199 (talk) 09:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  LOL!

message: The following doesn't follow logically. Success rates are not the same as side effects. 
:Interestingly, placebo treatments in studies often have reasonable success rates, though not as high as the products being tested, and even similar side-effects as the products.  For example, in Finasteride (propecia) studies, the percent of patients with any drug-related sexual adverse experience was 3.8% compared with 2.0% in the placebo group.
--Ryan Wise 04:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  drugs and placebos 

message: There are quite a few.  Any that are particularly important? - brenneman {L}  02:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: The outcomes research for this product is flimsy at best..even anecdotal evidence is lacking, so why does Revivogen get a whole section whilst something like Retin-A (which does have properly peer-reviewed outcomes research available) get half a line? Did someone just copy and paste this from hairlosstalk (which promotes Revivogen as it sells it)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.6.206.138 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed and removed. I'm amazed no one else caught this blatant breach of Wikipedia:Reliable Sources earlier. --   Netsnipe  (Talk)  11:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revivogen 

message: I've been searching High and low for any evidence (other than anectotal) to support anything related to diet/exercise and androgenic alopecia and come up empty handed.  When it comes to reputable medical texts there are none, however MANY "alternative" publications reference a link between MPB and lifestyle, and searching online, many of these therapies reference this article before other sources (which in turn reference this artice, again).  That isnt to say that there is absolutly no connection. However, because no reputable text has published anything, and since there are only 2 FDA Approved treatments (but 3 well known drugs), and most other stuff has nasty side effects (gynecomastia anyone?) or no effect at all (stand on your head!), until a link has been documented by a reputable source, I'd suggest removing it entirely.
However, information pertaining to insulin and SBGH seems to hold water in both sexes, but there are many factors that can dictate higher insulin levels- specifically genetic ones- that diet and exersize cannot control.  Maybe somthing to look at?  whatever, still remove the "diet and lifestyle info"  
Also, and finally, if exercise in relation to MPB is to be mentioned, also mention that to lower baseline testosterone levels you must exercise for an average of 90 minutes each day, aerobically, and become an "endurance trained male" (ref #s 12 & 13)  but that it is generally a good thing to do anyhow, and you can sleep like a frikkin baby when you do.
Tiny.ian 20:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diet and lifestyle 

message: I tried adding a couple of herbal supplements to the appropriate section but it kept blocking me claiming that I was a bot.  I am human, obviously.  For some reason, it didn't like the reference to healthology web site.  I'm usually pretty good at spotting BS and Healthology seems like a pretty reputable site to me (at least the page I'm referencing seem legit), so I don't know why that site is blocked.  In any case, I added the 2 herbal supplements but but now one of them is unsourced.  I feel like we're shooting ourselves in the foot because all Wikipedia articles are supposed to be referenced and it won't let me add the appropriate reference.  Anyway, hopefully someone here (an admin perhaps) can fix this.  24.14.76.94 18:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither of those references appear to qualify as a reliable source. OhNoitsJamie Talk 18:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's nice.  Someone removed the second reference, so now neither is sourced.  Are we trying to make this article better or worse? 24.14.76.94 02:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I added back the cite. Please, if you think you have a better cite, then just use it.  If you can't come up with a better cite, then leave it.  Again, we're supposed to be making the article better, not worse. 24.14.76.94 02:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If the cite is added again, the editor adding it will be blocked. I've made it clear that the cite is not a reliable source. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why? Wikipedia articles are supposed to be sourced.  If you don't like the source, find a better one! Be productive, not destructive. 24.14.76.94 23:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text:  BTW, who made you boss of Wikipedia?  If anything, you should be banned for vandalism. 24.14.76.94 23:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's the responsibility of the editor who adds material to make sure that material is verifiable and reliably sourced. I just enforce the rules. OhNoitsJamie Talk 00:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, you're not "just enforcing the rules".  The material did have a cite from a reliable source.  I have brought this up to you several times.  So far, you have not provided a single reason why you think the source isn't reliable. You simply state "cite is not a reliable source" as if your word were God's.  You haven't provided any explanation as to why.  Even worse, you threaten people who attempt to edit the article in good faith.  I'm sorry but unless you justify your actions, your edits can only be construed as vandalism. 12.10.248.51 (talk) 15:17, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am not a bot 

message: this section is wikihow calibre. i would just erase it, but maybe it could be improved. as it is, it's pretty lame.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.239.253.34 (talk) 01:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General preventative warnings 

message: Androgenic alopecia lists "Lignans from flaxseed, sesamseed, or Norwegian spruce" as a treatment.  These are not listed on this page, nor is there a reference.  Should this be removed from that article or copied to this one? -- Beland (talk) 17:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I moved the claim here and requested citation. -- Beland (talk) 06:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plant treatments 

message: There is conflicting data/contrary evidence out there according to at least one comprehensive study in middle age to older men that regular aerobic exercise actually slightly increases DHT levels, which contradicts the claim made by one contributor in the Diet and Lifestyle section under Exercise. I plan on making changes to this section if it can't be refuted here in discussion. The study in question can be found here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/569299  B.Soto (talk) 06:01, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting Data Regarding Exercise as Treatment 

message: Why do roid users suffer from increased MPD when they are FULL of testosterone? The article claims low test is responsible for hair loss, this seems counter intuitive. Is there any evidence for this claim?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.3.77 (talk) 02:43, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Testosterone Levels 

message: This article is well sourced and I would like to see it qualify as a good article. I have already taken the proper steps in nominating it, so wish it luck!  22:49, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good article nomination 

message: Title should be singular so moved to this above term.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to [[Management of baldness]]

message: Generics should generally be used as the brand names of different in different countries.  The most common brand name may be used once following the generic in quotes.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Generic terms

message: To make it to GA this article will need to comply with WP:MEDRS.  Most importantly it will need to be based on review articles rather than primary research.  If people need help getting review articles drop me a note. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:10, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Referencing

message: A number of countries have approval systems.  Others should be discussed not just the FDA. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Approved meds

message: A reference to a patent abstract is not "spam"" for an agent that is in clinical trials. Jackfirst (talk) 16:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patent abstract for TEMPOL 

message: The Hair transplantation section makes very little sense and needs to be rewritten since it appears to introduce two methods of extraction but then elaborate on only one, FUT, while using the verb extract, which occurs in the name of the other method!
The following hopelessly unhelpful pair of sentences also needs to be dealt with: "When the transaction is completed, the patient should wear a head bandage for the next two days. This will allow the scalp to treat not weakened, and increase the chances of success."
--78.150.118.127 (talk) 07:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hair transplantation section rewrite required 

message: This article will be under construction till 1/7/12 as it needs a complete rewrite. This construction began on 12/20/2012. Edits will be summarized on the talkpage. If any feedback, please leave it here. As is normal Wikipedia policy, do not undo another users contributions without discussing it on the talk page first. Please feel free to make your own edits. The frequent updates can be put on hold, and all users contributions can be considered. Thanks! Please comment here or on my talk page if feedback. Ramwithaxe 05:31, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is getting quite long, with the sections on 'experimental medical' and 'supplement' with the most text. I have been extremely aggressive in reducing unneeded wording, but there will likely need to be separate articles to address those topics with the amount of text in this one reduced. First, a separate "Management of androgenic alopecia" article could be created, but if that is too long, then separate Herbal management and Experimental medical management of androgenic alopecia could be made. Does this seem reasonable? Ramwithaxe 21:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Construction notice

message: While editing hair transplantation, two links were listed as blacklisted by Wikipedia, and have been replaced with more objective and up to date Pubmed citations:
Hair Transplant | Hasson & Wong

Ramwithaxe 00:02, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Link removal

message: I removed promotional material related to Proctor & his hair loss products, per WP:SPAM.  Before considering re-adding the material, please produce independent, reliable, secondary sources that discuss the product, in relation to "management of baldness", in a significant way.   Supplying primary sources written by Proctor or producers of his products is not sufficient. --Noleander (talk) 19:24, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam removed 

message: This intriguing sentence needs some elaboration, or at least a reference:
"Its effects on androgenic alopecia were not unexpected due to observations of the pseudo-hemaphrodite population in Papua, New Guinea." 101.117.21.104 (talk) 08:42, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Guinea hermaphrodites?? 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :IRestore. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 1#IRestore until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  BDD (talk) 21:06, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "IRestore" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: A decent multi-nutrient or even pre-birth nutrient can assist with halting diminishing hair.
786Thakurritesh (talk) 21:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Blogs are not reliable sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2022