Talk:List of ethnic groups known as "Iranian Turks"

message: It is really sad to see edit war on this. I request both parties to be calm for now and do not do anything drastic. I reverting things back to where it was before the edit war. Hope this cools down things a bit. Persian Magi 11:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Please have a look and let me know or edit the pieces you think appropriate.  By the way, you have a nice talk page. One of these days, I should do one too. I am a bit lazy on creating account and siging in. :) 203.48.45.194 01:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removed Azeri and the comments about army and elite. 203.48.45.194 01:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I am glad we agree, i also added the baharlu tribe to the list --Darkred 01:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting Edit War 

message: Is Iranian Turks an ethnic group?! Or something like that? Honestly I never heard such a thing. I suggest an AFD. I'll fix it by redirecting to Azeri people. Togrol 18:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is based on Turkish separatsim POV (according to the persian friends). They say there is no Turk in Iran but Azeris, and now they are keeping an article claimng Azeris who are descendant of an ancient people are Turks!! See the respective discussion in the talk page of Iranian peoples! Togrol 00:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is neither - and the origin of Azeris are a matter of dispute, See Azeris#Origin -- -  K a s h  Talk | email 07:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Togrol, not all Iranian Turks are Azeri. I am not sure if you have talked to someone from Qashqais or Shahsavans who live in central provinces of Iran. There are also many Turkmens who are not Azeri for sure. In fact, separitists want to claim all these groups are the same and are Azeris and not Iranians. Anyhow, this article wants to define of a major popultion of Iranians in the past and current times who speak Turkic languages. These people include, the current leader, Ali Daei, Samad Behrangi as well as Nader Shah, Soltan Mahmud, Agha Mohammad Khan. All these people could also be identified as Persian/Iranian by culture and identity. They are also identified as Turkic people. 203.48.45.194 01:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then rename the article. Togrol 12:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The article already is titled to show that not all Iranian Turks are Azeri. -- -  K a s h  Talk | email 13:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neologism?

message: "partial rv. u r joking right? :) It is simple syntax - what can "Iranian Turk" mean in English? Azeri alternate name is also relevant, why take it out?"
No I am not joking buddy. What would you call an Iranian speaking Turk? er, an Iranian Turk? I put the tag in front of a specific claim. 
Also a transliteration is not needed just for being "relevant". This is an English term, unless we want to provide all "relevant" transliterations there is no need to include this one. --Rayis 23:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose there could be confusion to know which identity is the primary one. Btw, please try to avoid the personallization of the issue by saying "baristarim's reverts" - it could have been anyone reverting. Better to discuss the issue and keep it impersonal as much as we can. Cheers! Baristarim 23:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baristarim's reverts 

message: I noted that the tags were not removed when the relevant discussions were settled long long ago. Therefore, I removed them. 
The parts of the article which need further referencing or reference verifications are tagged appropriately. 
In case if someone thinks that further tags needed or thinks the tags should return, please add specific details here and further work/discussion/verification might clear
things up. 
Persian Magi 07:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed several sentences of POV and OR, and I restructured the article to make it consistent with other Wiki articles.Hajji Piruz 01:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing the tags 

message: The article's concept is really saying that Turkmens, Azaris, Qashqais are the same people because of language.  It would be like creating Iranic Azerbaijanis and then putting Tat, Talysh and Kurd together.   The DNA stuff does not belong here either.  There is article on Iranian Azerbaijanis, and Qashqais and also one on Khorasani Turkic (Afshar which is really Azerbaijani Turkic).  Not sure what the Shahnameh of Ferdowsi has anything to do with this article, since at the time of Shahnameh, Turkic languages were not present in Azerbaijan or there was no Qashqai federation.  When we say "Tork" in Iran in Persian or "turk-zaban"(turkic speaker) "Turk-dil"( turki speaker) in Luri, they mean Iranian Azerbaijanis.  So I think the article needs to be redirected to Iranian Azerbaijans.  Using pan concepts like "Iranic speakers of Azerbaijan" (Talysh, Kurds, Tats) or "Indo-European speakers of Caucus"(Ossetians, Tats, Talysh, Kurds, Armenians) is really not Wikipedia and borders on ethno-nationalism.  Also Iranian Turks can denote technically Zazas and Kurds and Azeris (since they came from Iran irregardless of origin) of Turkey.  So I do not see a purpose for this article and it is a repeat of other articles. Will await for feedback.    --alidoostzadeh (talk) 17:35, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any logical objection to the redirection?  Iranian Turks can equivalently mean Zazas and Kurds of Turkey.  The term makes it seem like Turkmen and Azerbaijanis are grouped together.  I do not think we can group speakers of a whole language group together in any country.  Iranians of Turkey (Kurds, Zazas), Iranians of republic of Azerbaijan (Talysh, Tats, Kurds).. I don't see any reason for this article and everything is already repeated in other articles.  What does Shahnameh have to do with the issue?  --alidoostzadeh (talk) 20:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Mr Doostzadeh, Many Iranian Turkic speaking Iranians are not Azaris. That is why this article should not be redirected. This article is not about Turkish Iranians but Iranians who speak Turkic language and are called Turks by Iranians. Do you call Turkic Turkmans, Shahsavans of Markazi province and Qashqais of Fars Azaris?  I am not sure if Kurds and Zazas could be categorized as one group but Turkmen, Qashqais and Shahsavns understand each other 99% and share many customs in their culture. It has nothing to do with Turanism and pan Turkism. They are simply speak one very same language and not all of them are Azaris. Persian Magi (talk) 23:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the name of the article could be a little bit misleading. Maybe we should call it "Speakers of Turkic Languages in Iran" and mention they are called Turks in Iran but not all of them are Azaris, excluding Turkmen perhaps. Turkmen are specifically called Turkman in Iran whereas a Qashqai is called a Turk. Please also bear in mind that Tork-zaban is a new term invented by Pahlavis to avoid Turk..otherwise our literature always mentions Torkan or Torkamaanan. (Turkoman was not always a term for Turkmen in our writings either as it was used for Qaraquyunloos and Qajars for example.)Persian Magi (talk) 00:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Salam.  I agree with what you say, but just disagree with the utility of the article.  Some articles might have utility because they due away with constant editorial fights and problems.  But this one I don't think there is any majo dispute, but just format.  Approximately 85% of Iranian Turkic speakers are Azeris.  Counting out Turkmens of Iran who are not called "Tork" , that would make over 90%+.  Turkmen language of Iran, Turkemenistan is not really the same as Azeri and is not classified as so.  I understand it is close but structurally, phonologically and grammatically it has some differences.  And the origin of the two groups (at least from DNA perspective) are widely different.  Much like say Kermanshah Lurish and Persian are close, but they are not exactly the same.  For example Turkmen has 18 vowels where as Azeri has 9 and etc.  As per Qashqai, from where I hear, they are mainly called Qashqai not "Tork".    Also "Tork-dil" "Fars-dil" is used by Navai to denote "Tork" and "Tajiki", thus is it not a new phenomenon.  For example Naser Khusraw also refers to  Esfahan as a city of Parsi-Zabanan, not Parsian.  So Tork-Zaban is not really a new invention since even Navai uses it.  I agree Turkomen was also used for Qaraqoyunlu, Qajar and even in Turkomens in Iraq who seem to speak a closer Turkic to Azeri than Istanbuli.  But in the English terminology, Qashqai, Azeri and Turkmen are separate.  Thus we should perhaps make a disambiguation  page for Turkmen.  Turkmen afterall is a general term denoting Oghuz Turks.  Note since we are in English wikipedia we should use English terminology.  That is how Persians refer to Azerbaijanis is not priority in English wikipedia, but it can be mentioned in Azerbaijani people.  Also Shahsevan are considered Azeris I believe, they are just nomadic instead of sedentary.  So basically, if we count out Qashqais which we might disagree with, basically the terminology "Tork" in Iran is used 95%+ for what in English today refers to Azeris.  I am very sure it is not used for Qashqais and definitely not for Turkmen.  I think if you disagree Shahsevan is different, then a separate article can be made.  Then link to various Turkic speaking groups can be given in articles such as demographic of Iran and detail on each group in its own article.  But this article has some of the problems which I discussed.  Turkmen and Azeris are not the same group.  DNA is not necessary since this can be discussed in Turkmen and Azerbaijani people.  Also Shahnameh linked here, but at the time of Shahnameh, we did not  have "Iranian Turks" that is the populace of Azerbaijan did not speak Turkic neither were Turkomens in Mazandaran/Golestan.  I agree Ghaznavids considered themselves Iranians actually and Sultan Mahmud considered himself Iranian, a descendant of Sassanids and considered the Qarakhanids as Turks/Turanians.  But that can be discussed in Ghaznavids and history of Iran and etc.  --alidoostzadeh (talk) 01:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should be redirected

message: "Iranian Turks" might be a bit confusing. A more precise title for this page. To avoid confusion and to avoid any sensitive political terms I changed the title to the current one. Please provide feedback and comment if you have any concerns. Persian Magi (talk) 02:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of Title to "Speakers of Turkic Languages in Iran" 

message: The title on the list table starts with "Turkic peoples of Iran". Isn't it what we need the title to be? Turks is the intro to people from Turkey (read Turkish people) and these people are not from Turkey. This is again the confusion between ethno-linguistic grouping and nationality. Why don't we change the title?--Persian Lad (talk) 22:47, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Better to just delete the article imho. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:52, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: But it's not an article, it's a list.--Persian Lad (talk) 00:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh it's still an article though. Article/list, w/e, I'd say it better to delete it. It's irrelevant and is only gonna cause issues in the long run. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:29, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we change the title?