Talk:Spectral music

message: I believe that I have improved this article enough for it no longer to be considered a stub; therefore, I have removed the 'stub' tag. MdArtLover 17:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: No longer stub

message: Considering the enormous amount and diversity of musical and compositional activity in the United States, with so many well-funded university music schools and departments, myriad computer and electronic music studios, libraries with extensive research capabilities and plenty of scholars and graduate students always hungry for something to write about, there was a remarkable delay between the time of the major musical achievements of the French spectral composers (for example, Grisey's seminal 1975 work, Partiels) and the general awareness of spectral music in U.S. musical academia. It is fair to say that it was virtually ignored for at least a generation.Two examples suffice to make the point.
In 1997, 22 years after the creation of Partiels, Joel Chadabe's "Electric Sound: the Past and Promise of Electronic Music," a book that was supposed to cover the history of computer music as well as electronic music per se, contained no mention of spectral music or any of the composers associated with it. In the late 1990s, this book was on many reading lists as a standard reference on its purported subject. To know its contents was to be considered thoroughly knowledgable.
The second example is also from 1997. That year's edition of David Cope's Techniques of the Contemporary Composer, though it supposedly covered electronic and computer music, also contained no mention of spectral music or any of the composers associated with it. This book, written by a well-published composer and academic, was similarly ubiquitous in American music school bookstores and on composers' reading lists.
But it was in precisely that year, 1997, that Tristan Murail crossed the Atlantic to take up a teaching position at Columbia University, puncturing the strange American innocence of all music spectral.
Nevertheless, even then, a general change in attitude did not happen overnight. The U.S. musical scene is only in the last few years finally beginning to deal with the enormous implications of the spectralists' innovations. Meanwhile, in Europe, even "post-spectralism" is over. What explains this immense time lag may be an interesting topic for discussion here. Any theories? MdArtLover 00:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion is appropriate if the goal was to find and discuss sources and their presentation so as to improve the article. Original research would not. The article has improved so far from our discussions, so it sounds good. Hyacinth 04:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "The article has improved so far from our discussions" - so you say. MdArtLover 12:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? Hyacinth 05:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed discussion: the tardy response to spectral music in the US

message: I remember Stockhausen in an interview putting much emphasis on one of his early electronic works, where a sound was gradually slowed down, until it appeared as a series of discrete clicks, thus revealing the sound's inner workings to the ear. I believe he called the sound "the schnorer" or something similar. I wonder if this is worth mentioning in the paragraph about pre-spectralists? Maybe someone who knows more about Stockhausen knows the piece (it's one of his well-known early ones) and can explain this better?
213.118.62.174 12:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth, and replying now after a lapse of two years, the piece in question is Kontakte (1958–60), and the celebrated sound event comes right at the middle of it. I don't know that Stockhausen ever used the word "Schnarchen" (snore) to describe this sound, though it would be apt. However, his importance as a precedent to the spectralists does not reside particularly in this sound. It is more his article "… wie die Zeit vergeht …" and a number of compositions associated with it, especially Gruppen (1955–57), that are the most important influences. I have just corrected the "History" section to include the Cologne "Feedback group" (following Julian Anderson's New Grove article). The composers in that group were all students or associates of Stockhausen in the late 1960s and early 1970s, so the connection is particularly clear with them. Gérard Grisey also studied with Stockhausen and was perhaps the only one of the French spectralist composers to acknowledge this debt openly.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:58, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: (Theoretical) pre-spectralists

message: Ravel wasn't around in the 1970's...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.20.127.239 (talk) 04:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true. So what is your point? Ravel's music is named as an influence on the spectralists; he is not said to have been among their number.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 19:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ravel? 

message: So, after reading this article, I still don't know what it is. Maybe an example would help. Since we're using electronic analysis of sound as part of the compositional process it might be of help to see a few pictures. Now someone said here in discussion that "spectral music is defined by attitude and not techniques." If this is so, why such a big article for something apparently ridiculous?  That would mean "spectral music" is just a pretentious throw-away term. 75.48.2.10 (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: One really good illustration would make things much clearer, I agree. There are such examples in some of the cited articles, where a spectrogram is shown in conjunction with a page from a score derived from it. On Wikipedia, unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to quote from a copyrighted score without immediately running into licensing problems. I have seen a number of attempts in other music articles which, in most cases, have the music page deleted almost immediately for copyvio. If anyone has a solution in this case, I would be very pleased to hear of it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:10, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe some composition student who knows his way around spectral music could "generate" a page as a "donation"... -- megA (talk) 17:21, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear 

message: Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 21:07, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of refs have been added since 2008, and there is only one paragraph (concerning FFTs) that still appears to be OR. I have removed the top banners and flagged that one paragraph, at the same time cleaning up some inconsistencies in the inline refs.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations

message: The two sentences moved  here appear to have been directly lifted, at some stage, from pages 22 and 27 of :The spectrum is always in motion, and the composition is based on spectra developing through time and exerting an influence on rhythm and formal processes. Spectral music seeks to exteriorize the inner reality of sound, to project its inner dynamics into an acoustic space and time, and to transmit to the public the reality of sound in all its complexity.My understanding is that the cited article, published in Tempo, is subject to copyright:
* 
Other editorial considerations aside, surely such statements (originally inserted, apparently in gf, by a SPA here) would require appropriate paraphrasing?  81.158.69.126 (talk) 14:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: re: copyvio, it's better without it, not worth paraphrasing, its waffle, definition much improved after rewrite, thanks, there are some other sources that could be added, will pull them out when I get a chance. Acousmana (talk) 22:31, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  An apparent copyvio