Talk:Humid continental climate

message: The article about subarctic climate says 90 days frost freee periode at most and no more than 3 months of summer (mean 24-hr average at least 10°C). However, this article says that an area with summer lasting less than four months (and winter colder than -3) has a subarctic climate. A substantial area in Scandinavia, Russia and Canada have summers lasting more than 3 months and less than 4 months. Lillehammer, Norway, has a summer lasting on average 108 days, frost free periode is a bit longer, while winter (average below freezing) lasts 5 months, with January average -9 C. So is this a humid continental (Dfb) climate or subarctic (Dfc) climate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orcaborealis (talk • contribs) 09:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is based on the monthly average of calendar months, so such is averaged out. It all depends on how everything averages out. CrazyC83 00:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but for research purposes more precision is needed, and it seems as the line often is drawn at 100 days of summer. Orcaborealis 11:28, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subarctic or humid continental if summer lasts 3 and a half month? 

message: In the Köppen article, the Dfa /Dwa/Dsa subtype is referred to as having a hot summer, while the Dfb subtype (hemiboreal) is referred to as having a warm summer. Orcaborealis 09:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Best term is Hot Summer for Dfa and Dwa (>=22°C), and Warm Summer for Dfb and Dwb (<22°C). Since most places in the latter category still get into the low to mid-20s°C (70s°F) in July (January) on average with frequent hot days, calling it a "cool summer" is really pushing things. Most places with cool summers and away from oceans fall in the subarctic climate. BTW, Dsa and Dsb are not humid continental, they are high-altitude Mediterranean as they are only found in higher elevation areas adjacent to Csa/Csb climates. CrazyC83 01:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about going with 'very warm' (but not Hot summer) for the Dfa, I mean large swaths of Africa, Arabia, Indian sub-continent and other parts of the world have many months with a summer average of over 30°C, that is truly hot. I would agree that below 22°C should not be classified as a cool summer but a warm one at the very least (or maybe luke-warm!!). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.150.243 (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest 'Hot' summer for Dfa, and 'Very Hot' for the warmest areas on the globe, such as Somalia, Sudan, Saudi Arabia etc. Dfb would then be 'Warm' and Dfc 'Cool' summer. Orcaborealis 19:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, Dfb is usually defined - and is so in the Koppen classification - by having at least four months at or above 10°C...although some institutions (National Geographic, I believe) use "more than three months" for Dfb/humid continental. I still believe "warm" is correct for Dfb, "hot" for Dfa and "cool" for Dfc. Orcaborealis 19:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Additionally, the article about Subarctic climate says that no more than three months (but at least one) have average temperature of at least 10°C, so a location with three month summer is considered being in the subarctic, and not having a humid continental climate - even if three month of summer, as you mention, does allow some agriculture (depending on soil). Orcaborealis 19:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warm or hot summers? 

message: To me it seems inaccurate that Tokyo, Japan be labelled as a Humid Continental Climate. If you look at the climate chart both for summer temperatures and winter temperatures (as well as absolute minimum lows), this clearly falls into the Humid Subtropical Category and not the Humid Continental Category. Deneb1978 06:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of Honshu is humid subtropical, except at the higher elevations. CrazyC83 01:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tokyo]], Japan humid continental? 

message: The article says: "Average annual temperature below 8°C". Where does this definition come from? And, the article says that annual amplitude (monthly averages) is no more than 22°C . This is wrong. The amplitude can be significantly greater. Here is data for Moscow, with an amplitude of nearly 29°C. Orcaborealis 17:51, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Novosibirsk in Russia has an amplitude of 33 C. Montreal in Canada has a range of 31°C. Orcaborealis 20:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Moscow has five months with average temperatures above 10°C, which implies a "long" summer, but no month with an average temperature above 22°C, which with appropriate precipitation implies a climate in the Dfb group. The May and September temperatures are barely warm enough to be considered "summer" months by Köppen's classification...but it's enough.--Paul from Michigan 23:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect claims in article 

message: D climates are rare in the Southern Hemisphere for the simple reason that all landmasses south of between 30°S and 60°S are exposed to the moderating effects of open ocean or are dry enough (Patagonia) due to rain-shadow effects that if they have a chilly month to have BSk (cool steppe) or BSk (cool desert) climates. Temperature ranges are generally slight between the zones of subtropical desert and the Antarctic icecap. Thus the transition in the southern hemisphere between the warm temperate zone and the subantarctic regions is ordinarily Cfa→Cfb→Cfc→ET from north to south, Cfc climates appearing where summers are short but no month has an average temperature below 0°C. 
Rare, of course, does not mean non-existent. Some highland areas in New Zealand have one month below 0°C... it's in fact an area with ski resorts. It covers little area, but it exists. It has a Dfb or Dfc climate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul from Michigan (talk • contribs) 22:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Dfb in the Southern Hemisphere? 

message: Topeka is in the transition zone, proven here: http://www.idcide.com/weather/ks/topeka.htm. I would consider it humid subtropical because Koppen did. Press olive, win oil (talk) 21:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Topeka]] 

message: Is Juneau's climate subarctic or humid continental? According to http://www.idcide.com/weather/ak/juneau.htm, Juneau has 3 months that average above 10C/50F and  8  months below this line.  However, 1 month is on that borderline.  I read that Juneau was the size of Rhode Island on the internet, so the subarctic-continental border would be located in Juneau.  However, every map that I've come across says that Juneau is subarctic.  Then again, many also use 0C as the subtropical-continental dividing line instead of -3C. NYC is considered humid subtropical by Koppen standards. Press olive, win oil (talk) 22:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the summer temperatures are not very high in Juneau, I believe it would fall under the Marine west coast climate instead, Cfb, or possibly Cfc. Strongbad1982 (talk) 14:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, actually the winter temperatures in Juneau are under 26.6F/-3C as proven by idcide.  If you look at idcide, the border Juneau is on is Dfb/Dfc.  Juneau's winters are a bit too cold.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Press olive, win oil (talk • contribs) 13:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

text: It's take your pick. Even wikipedia can't agree upon the exact climate category for Juneau because Cfc or Cfb are both used to describe it in different articles. In the Climate of Alaska article wikipedia say, "The climate in Juneau and the southeast panhandle is best described as "a cooler version of Seattle. It is a mid-latitude oceanic climate (Köppen climate classification Cfb) in the southern sections and a sub Arctic oceanic climate (Köppen Cfc) in the northern parts." But then, wikipedia contradicts itself, and says, in an article specifically about Juneau, Alaska, "Juneau features a sub polar oceanic climate Oceanic climate (Köppen Cfc)" I think it qualifies as having a Continental Subarctic climate (Köppen Dfc) because its average January temperature is just below -3 Celsius.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.149.105 (talk) 01:59, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juneau - and Trondheim 

message: "Dfa: Hot (or very warm) summer subtype"
Is this a user made list or is based on real statistic? If the former, could we include Southern Quebec?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deus911 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern Quebec 

message: The Köppen climate classification of Dfa appears in the first section heading, with no explanation of what these letters mean. Only by scrolling down to the bottom of the article can the reader discover that these letters are part of a classification system. This article and the others which describe various classifications should each mention the Köppen climate classification system and the particular code in the lede. This is a bigger job than I have the energy to do. --DThomsen8 (talk) 13:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Köppen climate classification 

message: Many of the cities in Europe listed as Dfb climate are actually Cfb due to winters being too warm to fit the Dfb criteria. These cities must be removed, or another section added, where the cities having winters warmer than -3 C and colder than 0 Celsius are listed, as is done for North America. Examples: Bratislava has a coldest month of -1.3 Celsius link Bratislava climate. Budapest has a coldest month of 0.2 Celsius, even above freezing and is not Dfb whether the Koppen definition is used or the American, link Budapest climate. Vienna has a coldest month of -1.4 Vienna climate
Why so many mistakes? Orcaborealis (talk) 19:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Many mistakes and/or inaccuracies with regard to European cities in article 

message: The altitude actually is not the determinat factor to the occurence of Continental Climate (Df) in the Alps. While some cities and towns at a few Hundred meters above the sea level, such as Klagenfurt and most of Carinthia, have a typical Dfb climate, others at much higher altitude (such as Napf, Grachen -about 1500meters above the sea level - Switzerland) do not. The position inside the mountain range is actually the main factor. I think it would be more corect to divide in 'Inner Alps' and 'External Alps'. The first one would reffer to Carinthia, Tyrol, western Styria and Southern Salzburger in Austria, South Tyrol, Sondrio's province, Comelico and Aosta's Valley in Italy, Vallais and Grauben in Switzerland, and I wouldn't know where else, probably High Savoy and some other places in French Alps. In the Inner Alps Dfb climate indeed occur, sometimes at really low altitudes, while in external side of Alps, usually, in high altitudes, summers shorten enough to became a Cfc climate much before the coldest winter month reaching -3oC, such as in Napf. Only at really high altitudes or due to particular microclimates, Df climates are found in the External Alps, and usually as Dfc climate, once it occurs just some hundred meters above the Cfc climate area.
Should I change the article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.18.157.167 (talk) 19:34, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the [[Alps]] 

message: Is there an explanation of why this article is rated as mid-importance?? South Bay (talk) 03:05, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: As someone how has spent summers in Central Europe and Southern Illinois I definitely would not call Central Europe's climate Humid Continental. I don't know if the map is based on any research, but the climates might as well be on two different planets. --67.142.130.20 (talk) 06:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, much of central Europe is not cold enough in winter to be humid continental and is actually Cfb - oceanic. Even parts of Ukraine does not fulfill the -3 Celsius criteria, like Odessa. Budapest does not even meet the US 0 Celsius criteria as seen here.Orcaborealis (talk) 16:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: I initially chose:
* Boston: to illustrate a borderline Dfa/Cfa case
* Chicago: as a strong North American example of Dfa 
* Montreal: North American example of Dfb 
* Moscow: European example of Dfb 
* Beijing: prime Asian example of Dwa
When editing the data for Pyongyang (primarily to improve precision), I also added a graph at the same time. I do not think it should be included as an example over other Asian cities because it has the same classification as Beijing does, and is thus a repeat. it only differs in the maritime influence, as August, not July, appears to be the warmest month. What we probably should add is a European Dfa example, a European borderline case, an Asian borderline case, an Asian Dwb, Dfb, and Dfa. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 22:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selection of cities for charts 

message: I propose a complete re-write of this mess of an article. the humid subtropical article is much better written due primarily to this. ---何献龙4993 (talk) 01:07, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it, please use references though. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 16:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: I'm curious as to why the sections of this article are split up into 'North America'(not even labelled so, just assumed, as though if it isn't made explicit that somewhere else is being referred to, then naturally the subject is the US) and then 'Places outside the US'. This seems to me to be a somewhat parochial way of organizing things.  Grcaldwell (talk) 10:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  US and the rest 

message: Not so quick with the charts, Thegreatdr. This article does not have the continental/regional divisions that the humid subtropical article does, which assists the selection of cities for charts. Could hardly call one city for each type representative of the world at-large. More on this later... --HXL's Roundtable and Record 15:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine.  I did not add Moscow's chart in per your recent edit.  However, the "gallery" cannot stay.  The good news is that we have article histories for this reason.  If it is determined a particular city is representative, we can add the appropriate table later. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Restored charts, as text is too much complicated for usual reader. This is not the textbook for scientist. It's an encyclopedia. Elk Salmon (talk) 17:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The climate chart for Moscow is incorrect in my view, the winters in Moscow are colder than indicated by the chart in the article, see http://www.worldclimate.com/Moscow 24-hr average  Orcaborealis (talk) 08:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Personal opinions meets WP:OR. Chart provided here based on stats of local weather stations. Elk Salmon (talk) 18:27, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

text: Why must this gallery be continuously readded?  If even a small percentage of the effort used to restore the climate chart gallery was used to actually improve the article (by added inline references throughout), this would be a GA by now.  Thegreatdr (talk) 21:12, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article clean-up 

message: The article currently doesn't explain the specific meaning of the "Dsa" climate. Please add. -- 92.226.27.226 (talk) 14:11, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Reread the article.  It is explained.  Thegreatdr (talk) 02:30, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Define Dsa 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Humid continental climate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "CMA":
From Greater Toronto Area: 
From Qinhuangdao: 
From Harbin: 
From Tianjin: 
From Chengde: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Humid continental climate]] 

message: Why are these classified as humid continental on this article? They're continental but not humid - they have dry summers. Jim Michael (talk) 14:16, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a valid reference stating such, provide it and we'll make the change.  Thegreatdr (talk) 02:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dsa and Dsb 

message: I chose Pyongyang, North Korea, as a representative example of a site with a Dwa (hot, rainy summer and cold, dry winter). 
The wet winter Dfa (as in Chicago) was shown with no contrast for a dry winter. One might wish to change the alignment, as it doesn;t satisfy me.Pbrower2a (talk) 01:56, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Insert  a site with a Dwa climate 

message: I checked in on this article for the first time in a while and was astounded.  The gallery was back (see Wikipedia is not an art gallery) and the format was in ruins.  I was bold and temporarily fixed it (mainly format-wise) to increase the chances someone might be able to use it.  I added some referenced content, and shifted the unreferenced article template at the top of the article to unreferenced sections within the sections which continue to have no referencing.  I'm tempted to remove the remainder of the unreferenced content , which is well within the rules.  If any information is added without referencing in the future, it will be removed per wikipedia rules.  :/  Thegreatdr (talk) 01:30, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another round of reorganization, with referencing introduced 

message: There were 7 charts in this article. I removed the one for Erzurum because the source was not quite reliable.
But now, A new one for Winnipeg is added. I like the charts to be honest, but isn’t 7 charts too much(3 from Canada only)?PAper GOL (talk) 14:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charts