Talk:Batman Begins/Archive 1

message: ----
The plot summary may be copied from http://www.imdb.com. Ferdinand Pienaar 13:50, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya know, I kinda like it and think it sums up everything pretty much. I dunno who wrote it, but they're good writers!! Jonathan.Bruce 04:24, 13 Sept 2006 (UTC)
The current (very long) plot summary section should probably be renamed to "Story", as it is certainly no longer a summary, and reads more like a story than a plot description. - James Foster 06:27, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot Summary

message: There's a new paragraph at the end of the plot summary about changes from the comic book to the movie. I can see this growing into its own section, and it doesn't really fit as part of the plot summary; might that be a good idea?
Also, I'll buy the change of Ra's Al Ghul's motives as a considerable change, but going to a movie theatre, not leaving an opera is rather insignificant. AиDя01DTALKEMAIL 21:54, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
*You think details on Batman's origin story are "insignificant"?  But really, it would have been perfectly fine with me if you'd just removed "considerable".  And, I'd just like to say, that paragraph was not intended as any kind of slap at this movie.  On the contrary, I enjoyed it, but trivia's also fun, and I thought maybe some would find that of interest and expand on it.  CanadianCaesar 08:20, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comic Book &rarr; Movie 

message: Is it worth noting that the quote is a paraphrase of a famous FDR quote? -- pcrtalk 01:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote section 

message: Indicating that Liam Neeson actually plays Ra's is a spoiler, and the section either needs to be marked as such, or the cast list should be reverted such that Neeson plays Ducard and Watanabe plays Ra's. AиDя01DTALKEMAIL 14:38, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
I think that including it in the cast list on here and the plot summary helps those who haven't seen the movie understand better. It's just I have my opinions...you got yer own....but it would help make sense to everybody. Gnome sayin'?
:I moved the end-spoiler tag to just below the cast list.  Android79 is right - the whole point of spoiler tags is to allow people who haven't seen the film to still read the article without ruining the experience when they do.  The cast list as included contains major spoilers, so if it's going to stay in its present form it should be tagged as such.  --Chancemichaels 20:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers in the cast list 

message: Seeing a superhero movie sequel is like visiting an Internet porn website and having six hookers and two gay prostitutes show up at your door.  It's never what you were looking for and always too much. -Acjelen 23:04, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The superhero movie sequel 

message: I think it would be better if the playing card wasn't linked to the Joker character in the article. If something, it could be linked to an image/text about the actual card. People can keep on making the connection themselves if they want to.
:How about this?
::Gordon explains that a criminal in the lost "Narrows" area of Gotham has left calling cards at all of his crime scenes in the form of a playing card depicting a Joker.
:Most people will be familiar enough with the subject to make the connection themselves, but we need to also cater to those unfamiliar with the Batman mythos. android79 22:47, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
7he Joker is of course a huge Batman villain, but I was hoping that they would continue on with their use of unused characters in the movies. The Mad Hatter and Mr. Scarface would make a great pair for example. MajinPalgen 17:43, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the second template at the top of this talk page, the template says, "This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject."  See The Dark Knight to learn about the Joker's portrayal in the sequel.  Otherwise, please save your opinions unless they are relevant on how to improve the film article. --Erik (talk/contrib) @ 20:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joker 

message: From the article:
All told, this movie is considered to be the favourite Batman movie for critics and audiences alike, even superior to the 1989 original.
Any numbers to back this up? A poll of viewers and critics? Or just somebody reporting a subjective opinion from the newspaper? eritain 17:08, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, Way too nerdy to be a billionaire...? --Switch 11:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception 

message: Something that struck me is that they put the hallucinogen in the water for weeks, and nobody in Gotham City seemed to have heated it enough to cause panic attacks (what about boiling eggs for breakfast?). Not sure how that'd fit into the article though. (clem 23:24, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Somewhat along the same lines, a friend of mine pointed out to me that if the microwave emitter could boil water fast enough to launch sewer covers violently into the air because of the liquid-to-gas expansion, maybe there should have been people exploding (or at least having all the water boiled out of them...) from the same effect. --Pentasyllabic 04:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goof? 

message: I watched the movie a dozen or so times on the DVD and I watch with the closed captioning on (because it helps me follow the movie, even though I can hear), and I notied a mistake from what the translator put. I have many friends that a deaf, so these are to you guys so you understand the movie at this scene.
At the time 1:58:36, Batman says "I can beat two of your pawns.", but the closed captioning says "I can't beat two of your pawns?". 
--^BuGs^ 07:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought I heard him say "I can beat two of your pawns", but it sounded more like "I can't beat two of your pawns". Maybe you should try the subtitles instead. Closed captions can foul up sometimes. I've noticed it myself. Scorpionman 03:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What ever batman says it's really hard to understand. I watched it at least a dozen more times and I still can't totally understand what he says. --^BuGs^ 03:34, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's meant to be incredulous - he knows Ra's is aware of his level of skill, so he's questioning that only two rank-and-file ninjas are being left to stop him - "I can't beat two of your pawns?"60.225.169.205 04:12, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw the film, have to agree. Also in context  70.181.65.95 08:25, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I notced a CC error. 

message: Seeing as how it contains two direct quotes from the film. --Pentasyllabic 05:01, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: i dont think it's necessary...why dont we put quotes from movie section, and let the fans intepret itself whether it's a good quote morale or not. just a suggestion. HoneyBee 06:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Removed. Someone keeps adding this; it's not appropriate for an encyclopedia article. android79 07:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  is the "Morals" section really necessary? 

message: Someone added under the trivia section the differences between DC and Marvel. I don't think it should be in there. Anyone else on the subject? --^BuGs^ 11:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marvel Vs. DC 

message: Is there any information detailing when the sequels will be released? And how can Charles Roven, who was just the producer, deny that there was any definite villain in the next film? Scorpionman 03:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sequels 

message: I don't want to sound to critical, but I think this section is not neutral (WP:NPOV). But I want to have a mini discussion before I place the Point of View Tag on the section. --^BuGs^ 02:58, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reaction Section 

message: Soemone added the Rassberry Awards before I could, but I did add the Oscar data in for the movie. ^BuGs^ 18:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards 

message: I've completely reworked the article on Katie Holmes and have posted it on WP:PR in the hopes of advancing it to WP:FAC.  I would be grateful for your comments at Wikipedia:Peer review/Katie Holmes/archive1.  PedanticallySpeaking 19:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Katie Holmes]]

message: The section on the batmobile almost completely contradicts the information available on Batmobile. --Thenickdude 07:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Batmobile 

message: There seems to be some debate going on about the true identity of Ra's al Ghul - whether Ducard was him all along or whether he was a replacement. This excerpt (from memory) of the second meeting between 'Ducard' and Bruce Wayne may help matters:
WAYNE (confronted with the imposter): You're not Ra's. I watched him die.
DUCARD: But is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?
WAYNE: Or cheap parlour tricks to conceal your real identity?
DUCARD: Surely a man who spends his evening scrambling on the rooftops of Gotham would not begrudge me duel identities.
It seems fairly clear to me that this indicates that Ducard was the real Ra's all along, and that the other two (the Ken Watanabe version and the party version) were just decoys. --Joseph Q Publique 23:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And in the official film guide book, there is an excerpt from the screenplay in which Liam Neeson's character is speaking and the script actually names him as Ra's al Ghul. Unless someone has conclusive proof that contradicts this, we need to go along with the idea that Henri Ducard was always the real Ra's al Ghul. I think some are changing this based on their own theories, which is original research and therefore verboten. --Bacteria 00:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the evidence seems to weigh in favour of Ducard being Ra's all along, I've made appropriate changes. --Joseph Q Publique 01:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The True Identity of Ra's al Ghul 

message: I removed most informations about the video game, leaving only general information. They are not necessary in this article, which is about the film, and are in the video game article anyway.--Ryusenshi 10:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed a paragraph about the video game

message: I think it would be better to leave only a short paragraph about the sequel on this article. This page is about Batman Begins, not its sequel, isn't it? The rumours, news, etc, should be kept on the page Untitled Batman Begins sequel, not here! Do you agree?
Same thing for the video game, by the way.--Ryusenshi 08:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sequel 

message: I've removed the trivia section. It's all unsourced, and taken from IMDb in any case. IMDb doesn't cite its sources either, which puts all of it into the realm of triple hearsay or something similarly evil. If there's useful stuff there then it can be sourced and integrated into the article proper. Mackensen (talk) 02:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah...I reverted that swiftly. I'd check IMDb again if I were you. Also, they may have just copied this page. Whatever the case, I was going to wait a bit before removing stuff like the hartnet rumor and I definitely object to removing it all outright. No offense, but did you ever look at the templete at the top? It says "too much", not "citeless". I did what I could to trim it, but I haven't heard any disputes as to the validity. Finally, remember the proper order: think, then edit, okay, cowboy? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 02:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to assume that you're trying to be friendly, rather than condescending. The tag doesn't direct my actions, although its point is well taken. If those items of trivia are so well known as to be "common knowledge" then finding sources shouldn't be a problem. If they're so important as to be worth mentioning in an article then it ought to be possible to integrate them into the text. I strongly suggest that you pursue both courses of action. Tacked on lists of trivia don't become an encyclopedia. Mackensen (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, if you examine this article's failed FAC nomination, many opposers cited the mere existence of the trivia section. Mackensen (talk) 02:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Assumptions make an [expletive deleted] out of you, dude. And it's really a little from column A, a little from column B. Now then, the whole "down with trivia!" thing? That's a closed-minded POV. Still, I suppose you're right about moving stuff. I'll do that. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 02:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem very adept at the art of quotation; I suppose you think that you're funny. In the future, I'd like to ask that you treat other folks around here with a little more respect, whether they're six-month newbies or three-year ex-arbitrators who don't answer to the name "Sparky." Thanks much, Mackensen (talk) 02:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text: One has to start somewhere. I regret that I lack the ability to edit all Wikipedia articles simultaneously. Mackensen (talk) 00:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Multitasking often leads to mistakes, anyway, Big Mac. Ånyway, I like more of what I see in the article now. I'll look into the articles you mentioned now, Fuse. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 02:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: While the article claims that the tracks are named after bat species, actual species are composed of two words: the genus (related group), and the species itself. My research on Wikipedia seems to indicate that the majority of tracks in fact allude to genera.
:1. Vespertilio – the Latin word for Bat, as stated in article; also listed as the genus including the Frosted bats in the Vesper family article (Evening Bats, Vespertilionidae). Many of the following genera are also referenced in this article. 
:2. Eptesicus – genus, House bats
:3. Myotis – genus, Mouse-eared bats
:4. Barbastella – genus, Barbastelles or Barbastelle bats
:5. Artibeus – Neotropical Fruit Bats, genus within the Leaf-nosed bats
:6. Tadarida – genus within Free-tailed Bat family, assigned the same description
:7. Macrotus – Big-eared Bats, genus within Leaf-nosed bats
:8. Antrozous – possibly genus including the Pallid Bat; Vesper bat also names Antrozoinae as the subfamily of Vespertilionidae including “the pallid bats”
:9. Nycteris – genus comprising the entire family Nycteridae
:10. Molossus – genus, Velvety Free-tailed Bats
:11. Corynorhinus – genus within "Microbat" suborder, judging by that article's image caption
:12. Lasiurus – genus, Hairy-tailed bats, and actually an interesting genus article for once!
I would like for this information to be reviewed and made available somewhere for the benefit of my fellow curious soundtrack collectors (and Latin students), but this article doesn't seem to be the place - unless perhaps certain tracks were individually linked to relevant articles. -AndromedaRoach 07:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You might be overcomplicating it. Just make the correction from "species" to "genus" or "genera". Done and done. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 18:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soundtrack Title Origins 

message: I added a  tag to the article because outside the sections that use the film as a direct source, the article does not cite its sources. I'd also like to reduce the plot summary so that we can pushm this article up the quality scale. I suggest we use X-Men: The Last Stand as an example because it is a similar film, and the article is classified as a Good Article. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 19:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferenced