Talk:New Mexican Spanish

message: I added the Cobos reference to this article, though I only tinkered a little bit with what already existed (see the history).  The article had no sources, and I intend to do a complete re-write with several sources beyond Cobos, I just haven't had an opportunity to do so.  I apologize if I have caused any confusions.  (my Cobos is the 2003 ed. as well) Murcielago 00:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the Nahuatl influence came from the Spanish colonists who came with Oñate in 1598/returned with DeVargas post pueblo revolt, along with Mexican Spanish cross-over through the centuries.  But you are correct in observing that New Mexican Spanish has the distinct feature of bearing the influence of Pueblo-language (keres, tewa, etc)and other Indian language loan-words.  Murcielago 02:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Just looked it up in the Cobos text.  "Manito-ta (los manitos)- a term applied by Mexican immigrants to New New Mexican Hispanics."  of some interest, the following entry: 'mano - brother, and mano-na, a term that has been used in northern New Mexico since the early seventeenth century.  Murcielago 18:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cobos

message: Should a seperate phonetics section be put in? I would be happy to clean it up. Also, if you're looking for more sources to use, I have many papers and articles to use (I'm majoring in Spanish Linguistics concentrating in NM Spanish at UNM.) Since school just got out, I'll have some time to possibly put in seperate sections for History, Phonetics, Syntax, maybe Code-switching... Any more ideas for sections? Hotchy 04:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonetics

message: I would suggest against using "somos asi" as an example since in New Mexican spanish, that would more properly be "asina semos".  My thought, anyway.  -Murcielago 20:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonetic Variation 

message: Historical background, source(s) of NM Spanish, etc., need to be edited in light of the introductory sections of Bills, Garland D., and Neddy A. Vigil. 2008. The Spanish Language of New Mexico and Southern Colorado: A Linguistic Atlas. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press. As it is, the text leans toward perpetuating myths, the exact opposite of what an encyclopedia article should do. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 16:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating and correction needed 

message: "Vosotros" (plural you) is not Standard Spanish at all. It's Standard European Spanish, a variety just spoken by way less than 10% of Spanish speakers. The only form of plural you in the Americas is "ustedes", just like in New Mexico.
200.57.197.151 (talk) 23:20, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cobos' allegedly Standard Spanish vosotros/ustedes. 

message: I am Mexican, a native Spanish speaker, and I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that in New Mexico (OR ELSEWHERE) "ustedes" also means the plural third person pronoun. It is as absurd as saying that somewhere English speakers use "you" to refer both to the plural second and third person pronouns. REALLY!
200.57.197.151 (talk) 23:30, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, ustedes as 3rd plural pronoun is erroneous. I don't have direct access to Cobos' volume at present, but in what Google books shows -- the observations appear to come from the first page (unnumbered in what I see) of the Introduction -- there's a quadrangular blank but no table visible, and no claim that ustedes is third person. Not incidentally, Cobos doesn't lead people astray by constructing fantasy phonology for grammaticalized -nos as subject marker, such as this: nos bañábamos /nos baˈɲabamos/ is pronounced [nos baˈɲa.β̞a.nos]. The text is easy to repair. I haven't found a way to edit the table. If none can be found, it'll have to be deleted due to the bit about ustedes being third person. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait so does "nos bañábanos" instead of "nos bañábamos" actually occur or no? Is that described in Cobos' book?Erinius (talk) 03:09, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The -nos morpheme seems to be (or perhaps to have been) normal. Here's an accessible source with hablábanos, etc. http://cervantesobservatorio.fas.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/012_reports_traditional_new_mexican.pdf Seems to come from BILLS, GARLAND; and NEDDY VIGIL. 2008. The Spanish language of New Mexico and southern Colorado: a linguistic atlas. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok thank you for that! Erinius (talk) 00:33, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

text: After I expand more on the changes to verb stems, the morphology section will have all the information in that image (and more), so it could be deleted. Erinius (talk) 11:04, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the image Erinius (talk) 11:12, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cobos' "ustedes" as plural third person pronoun. MUST BE WRONG! 

message: The first two are the usual standard (not only prescriptive) versions. If in wide use, nuevomexicano should be included, with a source or at least clarification re register (e.g. colloquially within New Mexico, or whatever the case may be). Deletion of the neo- and novo- versions is not a solution. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 16:28, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The RAE's DLE recognizes both novomexicano and neomexicano, and nuevomexicano is used in at least two papers (indicating to me that it's also a standard term). They all seem to be used. Erinius (talk) 07:22, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you clarify what you mean by "two papers"? Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 03:38, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for not responding earlier, I'd seen "nuevomexicano" used in two papers, both by Patricia Gubitosi and both written in Spanish. https://ebuah.uah.es/dspace/bitstream/handle/10017/8335/espanol_gubitosi_CR_2010.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y and https://glosas.anle.us/site/assets/files/1284/05_gubitosi-lifszyc.pdf . It's also used in another Spanish-language linguistics paper, "El cambio lingüístico en el español nuevomexicano: Los factores de edad y educación." by Bills and Vigil. It definitely is used in academic writing, though I'm not sure how popular any of the three terms are within New Mexico, and of course only neomexicano and novomexicano are recognized by the RAE, and neomexicano seems to be preferred. Erinius (talk) 02:29, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  español neomexicano, novomexicano, nuevomexicano 

message: I can't find much information in this article on how well traditional NM Spanish is preserved, how much it's spoken today. The map (which seems to show % of Hispanics rather than % who speak Spanish at home) is all (and it includes Spanish brought from immigrants in southern NM). So research will have to be done and more of that information will have to be added Erinius (talk) 10:56, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As of now I've found more historical info and info on present status, will update later Erinius (talk) 11:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Some news on it being endangered:   — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:26, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you but I've already read that article and someone else has added it to the page, and I've read quite a bit on TNMS and its endangerment (and [socio]linguistics more generally) since March 2021. I've actually been contributing to this article since then, and I noticed in your user page you went to UNM, so I have to ask, what do you think of this article so far? Erinius (talk) 22:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current Status 

message: That section of the phonology table was added in in 2006 and has never been cited, I'm skeptical of NMS having voiceless s before voiced consonants. Erinius (talk) 11:24, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's contradicted by Espinosa's Studies in New Mexican Spanish - I'm removing it. Erinius (talk) 09:29, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  No /s/-voicing