Talk:Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid/Archive 1

message: A note to clarify regarding the Stein reaction: December 15, 2006 has not happened yet.  Please fix the date. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.45.152.134 (talk • contribs).
:Done, thanks.--GunnarRene 22:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stein 

message: Small problem -- Dershowitz claims that there are many factual innacuracies, but the only one he actually points out, that Israel's attack on Jordan during the Six Day War wasn't pre-emptive, is actually factual, according to its wikipedia acticle, which agrees with Carter. Any thoughts on how to write this up NPOV? I don't think Dershowitz is an expert on that conflict, such that we should change its lead to agree with him. -- Kendrick7talk 02:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is Carter an expert on the conflict????  Is the Wikipedia article on the '67 war authorative????  Don't think so.  Elizmr 03:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, neither is Dershowitz. The point is his only claim that something in Carter's book isn't factual (though he makes a fair ammount of innuendo) isn't factual itself. I guess the article reads ok as it is, and if readers want to follow the linkout and discover that Carter is actually correct, that's their perrogative. -- Kendrick7talk 03:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Carter's chronology does fail to mention the 1929 riots in his brief timeline. He does mention Palestinian violence in 1936. Carter's timeline doesn't actually make the claim that the 1939 violence was "initial", but I guess if Dershowitz says that's what it says.... As for the Nation article, don't look at me. I wasn't going to add it myself; I only pointed out its existance to those who were claiming all the criticism was unbalanced. He does have good things to say about the book which it now seems to me belongs in the article somewhere. -- Kendrick7talk 08:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dershowitz's comments 

message: Here's a start: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/print?id=2680021
Excerpt: Carter's 'Palestine Peace Not Apartheid'
Former President Shares His Plan for Middle East Peace in New Book
Nov. 27, 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.209.222.112 (talk) 08:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the Disruptive Apartheid Editor.  He's already been blocked.  Don't feed the trolls.  CJCurrie 09:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia Jews that haven't read the book

message: Can someone check whether Carter indeed wrote this ungrammatical sentence (emphasis mine): "a system of apartheid, with two peoples occupying the same land but completely separated from each other, with Israelis totally dominant and suppressing violence by depriving Palestinians of their basic human rights"? Beit Or 15:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll check. Somehow I'm still only on page 13. -- Kendrick7talk 21:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote in the intro 

message: Jimmy Carter won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work attempting to promote peace in the Middle East. This prize seems to recognize that he has some moral authority to speak about the issues regarding the Middle East, but now we see that one editor will not recognize this fact or, at least, permit it into the article. To me, this seems to be exactly the sort of PoV-pushing that I was referring to above when I added the NPOV tag to the article; the article has few or no positive statments and, in fact, when one is added, it's just as quickly reverted out again.
Do you understand that this is the sort of thing that leaves Wikipedia with very scant credibility in the world at large?
Atlant 13:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good point; I don't have a problem with this in the article. -- Kendrick7talk 18:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it is not true that Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize for his "work attempting to promote peace in the Middle East." The Nobel Committee wrote that he won it "For his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts." and made no particular mention of the Arab Israeli conflict. --Leifern 18:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, I agree with Kdndrick7 that this is valuable information and certainly applicable to this subject.  --GHcool 20:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The page has been fully protected now until you guys can resolve your dispute relating to Jimmy Carter. After consensus is reached by all parties, message me on my talk page and I'll unprotect, or post a request at WP:RFPP. Nishkid64 22:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: War is just the term. Call it "repeated revert editing" if you want to. Just look at the history. It was probably going to progress into something further, so I took a precaution. Nishkid64 23:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a pretty mild war, but I don't mind that its protected.  --GHcool 01:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, like I said, it was more of preemptive protection than anything. Nishkid64 01:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't even imagine what policy or guideline prompts this kind of protection. Semi-protection is fine, but although there's plenty of disagreements, I see no edit warring here, and preemptive protecting would put virtually all articles in WP off limits. --Leifern 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He said he'd take it off in a few days, which from now should mean one more day. We could (sigh) go thru the motions... um... is there a cite template for book jackets? -- Kendrick7talk 23:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Page is now unprotected. I'm sorry if you guys felt my protection was not entirely warranted, but I did what I thought was right. Anyway, I did unprotect like I said, so hopefully everything is fine now. Nishkid64 23:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  Remark on Leifern's Dec 6 comment: If you read the Nobel committee's grounds for awarding Jimmy Carter the peace prize in 2002 you would find the following statement: "During his presidency (1977-1981), Carter's mediation was a vital contribution to the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, in itself a great enough achievement to qualify for the Nobel Peace Prize." (See http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2002/press.html). And as everybody knows, the subject for the first of these agreements were the Gaza strip, the West bank, and SC 242 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords_%281978%29). PJ 07:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carter and his Nobel Peace Prize 

message: Speaking frankly about Israel and Palestine, Jimmy Carter, LA Times.  "Jimmy Carter says his recent book is drawing knee-jerk accusations of anti-Israel bias."  
Quotes:
* "The many controversial issues concerning Palestine and the path to peace for Israel are intensely debated among Israelis and throughout other nations — but not in the United States. For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts. This reluctance to criticize any policies of the Israeli government is because of the extraordinary lobbying efforts of the American-Israel Political Action Committee and the absence of any significant contrary voices.  It would be almost politically suicidal for members of Congress to espouse a balanced position between Israel and Palestine, to suggest that Israel comply with international law or to speak in defense of justice or human rights for Palestinians."
* "Book reviews in the mainstream media have been written mostly by representatives of Jewish organizations who would be unlikely to visit the occupied territories, and their primary criticism is that the book is anti-Israel."
* "My most troubling experience has been the rejection of my offers to speak, for free, about the book on university campuses with high Jewish enrollment and to answer questions from students and professors."
--64.230.125.115 11:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speaking frankly about Israel and Palestine 

message: It is not mentioned in the current version of this article, but there is a documentary film crew following Jimmy Carter around.  They are professionals who have had previous major films.  It should be an interesting film given the controversy over the book and its reception.  The working title is "He Comes in Peace" and it is being produced by Participant_Productions, a socially oriented production house responsible for Syrianna among others.   Here is the story on Hollywood Reporter: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i01ddb1dac0f7f4bdbbcd6bc13c187fd4
--64.230.125.115 12:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Documentary film: "He Comes in Peace" from Participant Films