Talk:Robert Baker Aitken

message: Hello Friends,
I've added a couple neutrality-related tags at the top in hopes this article will be re-written in a more neutral tone. Robert Aitken may indeed be a wonderful man, as this article would apparently have us believe. But a gallery? Some portions here lean clearly in the direction of hagiography. And a gallery of this kind has no place here. My sense is that, as it stands, this article not only promotes a religion but a particular religious figure. 
Thanks. --Gunnermanz (talk) 09:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: Robert can take off his hat with a double back arm. TheThingy TalkWebsite 01:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fun Fact 

message: I've edited the page with an eye towards addressing the neutrality concerns. I'd like to help resolve this of respect for Roshi's recent passing. Thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acciavatti (talk • contribs) 13:46, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: HI Acciavatti, it looks that with present form the page is much more neutral than before. I am sure there are many other information which should be included for balance but I do not know acceptable references at this time. Perhaps you can think about this, or they may materialize in the future.Spt51 (talk) 02:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits 

message: I see contradiction in dates in this passage:
"Under invitation from Yasutani and Soen Nakagawa, Koun Yamada became roshi there in 1971. In 1974 he was given the title of roshi by Yamada Koun in Kamakura, Japan, receiving full Dharma transmission from him in 1985.[3][5]"
Reading the sources and what is said in Koun Yamada page it looks that in 1974 Aitken became sensei receiving full Dharma transmission later.Spt51 (talk) 17:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: I reinstated passage with important facts based on material from cited source. Please look at link from the reference. The same book was used in Shimano page, and other pages to cite many facts. Please do not remove it. If you do not like wording than confront author of the book.Spt51 (talk) 00:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Your phrasing is the problem. Awkward, and slanted, with your clear which to simply include defamatory material due to some errant sense of justice (you are insisting on including something negative, no matter of what marginal importance.) You made at least some basic changes to normalize your peculiar dated English ("the West" etc) - though your use of "thereafter" is totally weird. I do not agree with how you are phrasing and characterizing Aitken's realtionship with Soen. If this source (which I know but don't have access to at moment since I am on the road) says that Aitken had a significant split with Soen, then I simply question the source's veracity or accuracy. Soen distanced himself from all aspects of the American sangha when Shimano's behavior became too abhorrent for him to deal with. They did not have a "split" that warrants mention in this short bio. It's not proportional. Mention of issues with Shimano should be more explicit. You came to this page with one stated wish - to include negative information regarding Robert Aitken. Very poor editing.Tao2911 (talk) 16:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am trying to improve this page so it is not categorized as "hagiography" as it was before. And yes, certain facts were excluded before and no references provided for many. There is a link to the page in Ford's book in References, so please take a look. In the end this is exactly as James Ford states this. You may argue with him about what he meant, he is still alive. I believe he did thorough research so what he says may differ from commonly held rumors. To make this biography objective I believe this passage should be included. If you have good sources and facts to contrary, please include them. We may have two versions of the facts. Doesn't surprise you that this page did not have this source before? Please, read the opinions of editors at the top of discussion page...Spt51 (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual material

message: A gallery is not neutral. It is visual hagiography. The number of photos has been reduced, but it should be totally eliminated. A gallery of photos does not conform to Wiki standards unless it it is about nature, animal species, anatomy or a historical or similar sites. I say this though I believe Robert Aitken was a decent man. 
To avoid misunderstanding, I disassociate myself with the comments here defending Shimano in his sex-abuse scandal. I believe Shimano is guilty. My tag was placed only regarding the gallery issue. Shimano will not be convicted by galleries on Wikipedia but only by evidence before a government inquest. Unfortunately, it appears that Aitken had such evidence but chose not to act.  
--Gunnermanz (talk) 15:13, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallery 

message: This article says that Aitken was a Zen teacher in the Harada-Yasutani lineage. It also says that Aitken was a social activist through much of his adult life,  was an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War, became a strong opponent of the nuclear arms race between the United States and the Soviet , was among the earlier proponents of deep ecology in religious America, and helped found the Buddhist Peace Fellowship.
It is well known that the Harada-Yasutani lineage supported Japanese military aggression and imperialism during WWII.
See [] and [] and []
The article should include an explanation and dicussion of this discrepency.
--- Dagme (talk) 20:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: no, it shouldn't. "The Harada-Yasutani lineage" didn't do anything. Individual's within that lineage may have - though there is much dispute about the claims made in that book. Aitken himself, who is the subject of this entry mind you, has a clear and incontrovertible record of having been passionately socially and politically active, progressive, pacifistic, and peace supporting. take your axe to the Sanbo Kyodan (the actual name of that lineage) page if you wish to to grind it.Tao2911 (talk) 16:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harada-Yasutani lineage support for Japanese military aggression and imperialism during WWII 

message: Substituted at 04:33, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified