Talk:Rogers Pass (Montana)

message: The climate data for Rogers Pass seems off. On Weatherbase it says the record low is -46F but the official record low is -70F. If anyone can find accurate climate data please add it because I can't seem to find any.
:I think the data we have here is likely to be accurate, and indeed, no other source exists.  
:Rogers Pass is located in western Montana; despite what people might think looking at a map, that part of the US has more in common with the Pacific Northwest than with the Great Plains, and is not really known for extremely cold temperatures.  This is largely because of the slope of the land — cold air sinks, and the further east you go, the lower the altitude of the land.  This, in combination with the fact that air masses generally move west to east makes it very difficult for a cold continental air mass to ever reach the Pacific NW.  
:But occasionally it does happen, and when it does, the tendency of cold air to sink can cause it to pool and get trapped in a valley (see subsidence inversion), and become even colder as the night passes. Another factor necessary for this to happen is absolutely calm winds, since wind at the surface always has some vertical component to it, which leads to mixing of the air layers, and thus contaminates the supremely cold surface air with less cold air from aloft.  Thus, not every upslope cold wave will lead to a record cold event.  Since this type of event is so rare, it's not unbelievable that a minor weather station like Rogers Pass would see only one such event in its lifetime.  Other examples of this phenomenon exist; see Mazama, Washington and Winthrop, Washington, which both hit —48°F on the same night back in 1968.  However, the gap between the Rogers Pass reading and its second coldest known reading is more than twice the size of the gaps of those other two stations, and unlike Rogers Pass, Mazama and Winthrop are known for unusually cold climates compared to the surrounding areas. 
:It's possible that the —70°F temperature was recorded at a separate weather station, which may or may not still exist.  It would be unusual for there to be two weather stations in a small town, but not impossible.  I note that the article opens by giving the elevation of Rogers Pass at 5610 ft, but the people do not literally live on the mountain pass itself, but rather in a nearby valley which makes building easier and the weather considerably less windy, so the two elevation readings don't necessarily mean that there were two different weather stations.  
:I am somewhat suspicious of the round number, however, and I suspect that it may have been made with imprecise instruments.  It could well be that their thermometer didn't even have a —70 mark (this was the 1950s), and the low temperature was estimated.  I mentioned Rogers Pass along with a few other curiously imprecise record cold measurements in a private userspace essay at  User:Soap/Climate data essay. —Soap— 03:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Soap, what I have read is the site of the 1954 reading location was in a "bowl" about 3/4 mile west of the actual highway pass. The locked alcohol thermometer that was sent to the state climatologist showed based on their calculations a lowest point of -69.7F. On that same day relatively nearby locations also experienced temps nearing -60F.  I remember when if reached -69.3 in Utah in 1985, part of a seeping cold front that eventually brought cold air east resulting in a state record low in Virginia. I myself have seen NPS weather stations as low as -56 in Colter Bay, Wyoming, not far from Moran, Wyoming where that states coldest temp of -63 was recorded. NPS weather stations are generally NOAA level calibrated due to the need to monitor weather for fires. NOAA recognizes the -70 as the official Montana state lowest temp recorded.. I will say however, that modern technology would likely produce the most accurate temps, but one must remember that any all time weather record is a really rare event.--MONGO (talk) 05:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate data