Talk:Hip hop music in the Pacific Northwest

message: Shouldn't this article be moved to Hip-hop in the Pacific Northwest? I've never heard of Northwest Hip-hop as an actual genre, the way Southern hip-hop or West Coast hip-hop has. Frankly, it's not like as if Sir Mix, Funk Daddy, and Blue Scholars really belong in the same tradition. hateless 22:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Move proposal

message: I believe that Sir Mix vastly influenced the way hip-hop has evolved in the Northwest, perhaps not as part of the same tradition, but an influence on a definable genre of music. I believe the indications that Northwest Hip Hop is a genre of music as being as follows:
===Cultural Discrepancies===
The most prominent staple of Northwest Hip-Hop culturally is the uniquely fostered self-perpetuating underground in the region. Hip-hop heads in the NW often refer to themselves specifically as "Northwest Hip-Hop heads", and sometimes even limit their music consumption specifically to Northwest Hip Hop. This dynamic between artists and supporters shapes the genre in a variety of ways:
The regional, self-perpetuating underground has resulted in increased collaborations between local artists. Because few Northwest rap artists believe in inevitable commercial success, probably since Northwest hip hop has been basically ignored since the era of Nastymix Records, artists who participate in the underground culture invariably form collectives for mutual support, a trend which is apparent in the formation of groups like Massline Media, Sandpeople, and Oldominion. Indeed, this tendency to form collectives is one of the few things that unites the Seattle and Portland groups, linking the two cities both in their traditions and often through collectives large enough to draw artists from both metropolitan areas.
Northwest artists often cover similar sets of issues, ranging from, but not limited to: Homelessness, political dissidence, civil disobedience, the poverty and injustices of lower-class urban American life, local geography, leftist social philosophy, nihilism, humility, and the neglect of Northwest Hip-Hop on the part of the larger culture. Specific examples of this include references to The Central District, prevalence of the Seattle area code (206), the unusually high homeless rate, and the WTO protests.
===Musical Discrepancies===
There is a greater emphasis on turntablism in the Northwest, particularly Portland, than in the broader culture. Prominent local DJs gain greater or equal repute to MCs they perform with, or compete with. Examples of this include DJ Spark, DJ Scene, DJ Wicked, Mr. Hill (of Oldominion), and Sabzi of the Blue Scholars. While this is a a somewhat cultural discrepancy, it also has had an important affect on Northwest hip-hop music, resulting in multiple releases by individual DJs (notably Mr. Hill and DJ Wicked), and increase in turntablism and a tendency for local DJs to make their styles distinctive. Examples of easily distinguishable Northwest DJs range in their style from the light and jazz influenced beats of Sabzi, to the dark and intricate beats of Mr. Hill, to the mutually influenced but distinct styles of Sandpeople's Simple, DJ Spark, and Sapient. Another sign of this emphasis on turntablism is the unusually high number of MCs who also DJ. 
Lyrically, besides for content, Northwest Hip-Hop is hard to distinguish from other regionally concentrated underground hip-hop. As far as style is concerned, there is a local emphasis on speed rap (Sleep of Oldominion, and world record holder No Clue), as well as slower, freeform, abstract rhyme schemes (Onry Ozzborn of Oldominion). Between those two seemingly opposite flows their is a such a wide variety of styles that it seems pointless to allege any sort of similarity, besides, among prominent local artists, a disdain for the techniques of mainstream culture.
Traditionally, mainstream hip-hop's tacit suffocation of Northwest hip-hop has lessened the emphasis of artists on production values since the end of the "first phase" in 1993. This trend has changed as emphasis on production in the wider underground culture has changed, and many local artists have begun to produce their own beats, distinguishing themselves as they develop. This is only remarkable in that the collective prone Northwest Hip-Hop culture results in producers mutually influencing the mood and sound of group and solo albums. This level of interconnectivity is another key component of Northwest hip-hop.
===Conclusion===
While there are exceptions to all of these rules, I believe that these trends are wide-spread enough amongst the most influential artists in the region that together they represent a unifying characteristic which is best articulated as a subgenre of American Hip-Hop, specifically under the term "Northwest Hip-Hop."
--KindredPlagiarist (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why Northwest Hip-Hop is a Genre and Not Just Hip-Hop in the United States and from the Pacific Northwest

message: While there are exceptions to all of these rules, I believe that these trends are wide-spread enough amongst the most influential artists in the region that together they represent a unifying characteristic which is best articulated as a subgenre of American Hip-Hop, specifically under the term "Northwest Hip-Hop."
--KindredPlagiarist (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion

message: It has come to my attention that many aspiring artists are posting themselves on the Northwest hip hop page in order to promote themselves. Please resist this temptation. Wait until you or your group is influential enough so that a fan of yours or someone else so inclined creates a wikipedia entry for your work and adds you to the list of Northwest artists. Wikipedia is not a publisher of original information, and if you find it impossible to resist your desire to post yourself on the Northwest hip hop page, at least wait until information about you or your crew appears in a legitimate publication. Furthermore, if the artist still finds the desire uncheckable to self-promote, an understandable impulse for most independent hip-hop artists, you can add my roommate (KindredPlagiarst) on Myspace, there he uses the name The Northwest Hip-Hop Wonk, and he currently helps me moderate this page. Thank you.
--PerdixPerdix (talk) 15:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Of Aspiring Artists

message: I significantly reduced the length of the article, since a good deal of it was unsourced commentary and blatant self-promotion for non-notable rappers. Luksuh (talk) 20:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaned up article 

message: KindredPlagiarist made a very good case for it being a genre. I'm not really sure why the tag "Northwest Hip-Hop" was made if there was no article on the dominant style coming from the upperleft (or lower left for canadians). The "article" states that gangsta rap can be clasified as "northwest hip hop", this is illogical, Electro house bands can come out of France without being French House, location does not define genre, style does, and there is certianly a style up here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.120.185 (talk) 07:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre or not? 

message: In this article there is many missing artists who were at the beginning. Such as more info on the Emerald Street Boys, their original roster, Ron "Duke of Double Rock" Beasley, Eric "Deputy Rhyme" Gordon, Edward "Sugar Bear" Wells, and James "Captain Crunch" Croone and the groups who were out at the same time Funk Brigade (Which Beasley and Gordon formed after the Emerald Street Boys, Jam Delight which had Big Boss Cross and Gary Jam,  The Silver Chain Gang (Steven "Sir Wes" Wesley, LaSalle "Duke of Earl" Samuels, Jammaster Lance, Cool D, and Craig "Jazzy D" Daniels. Both of these crews were rivals to ESB. Not to mention later on in the mid-eighties the group SOS or "Sounds of Seattle" who changed their name because of a dispute with a Islander club of the name, so they formed KOC or "Kings of Cuts" with Captain Luv, Skigo, Eazy Shock, Master T, Freaky Weaky, Luv Jones, Sir Lover the MC and the KOC girls. Snap, Crackle, Pop, and Frostmaster Chill and The Central Crew, who were Donny "Dr. Nasty" Mitchell and Anthony "Sir Sweet" Funches and later the Freeze MCS who were Greg "Col. G" Steen, and Daddy D, who later battled the Emerald Street Boys at the clubs Broadway and Encore. Later the Central Crew was formed again with Robert "MC Lerap" Spikes and Ronnie Jones with John "Frostmaster Chill" Funches. Bryan "Dj JOC" Hatfield also put in much spinning and rapping work, with Jimmy "Icy J" Steward. 
Frostmaster Chill and Sir Lover teamed up to form "Ace of Spades". Also in the early ninties the group the Darkset was formed which had the old school collabs of Frostmaster Chill, then Brotha Frost Chill, to Brotha Spayde, and Eddie "Sugar Bear" Wells, then Kodiac Bear, Anthony "Sir Sweet" Funches, then Dj Pace, and the new comer at the time Shedra "I Double L" Manning. They made the first local CD rap record "Krakkerbashin" and the follow up "Seven Deadly Sins" never released but sold on ebay for almost $700 because it was so rare. At one time "Krakkerbashin" sold for almost $200 or more.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/matsononmusic/2011504319_seattles_first_rap_group_emera.html
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/going-way-back/Content?oid=50163
http://www.gigposters.com/poster/15098_Jesse_Bernstein.html
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?displaypage=output.cfm&file_id=9778
http://www.discogs.com/search?q=Emerald+Street+Boys%2C+The&type=all
http://www.ronnieluvjones.com/
http://lineout.thestranger.com/2007/02/around_86
http://www.rapvault.net/showthread.php?t=21710
http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAKKER-BASHIN-DARKSET-CD-1993-SEATTLE-OG-/120699838804
http://flavafoyoear.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/pacific-nw-rap/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.18.197 (talk) 05:58, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Artists  

message: It should be painfully obvious that notable artists should be considered those who have had an actual impact on a musical genre.  Not just a bunch of local guys who you may happen to know personally and like their music.  For this, I am removing specific names that outside of their respective towns/neighborhoods they are relatively unknown.  The artists that were added by the previous modification that got tagged for vandalism are artists who are recently signed to major labels or have gained mainstream notoriety.
Also I recommend adding NoClue as he is documented as being the world's fastest rapper by the Guinness Book of World Records 2010 and is from Federal Way, Washington.
~Greg  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.135.128.22 (talk) 03:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The general practice of establishing "notability" is objective, not the subjective manner you suggest, i.e. your opinion of who is well-known. Rather, anyone who has a wikipedia article of their own is considered prima facie notable (for a region as small as the Pacific NW - a page about actors from New York would be much more selective for instance), or, without a proper wiki article, then at least a citation to an accepted source establishes a degree of notability. Nothing is gained by deleting blue link articles (especially since the list is not unwieldly in length). Wikipedia is about sharing knowledge, not your opinions about who is good and who isn't. For the record, I haven't heard of a majority of these "notable acts" -- but that doesn't matter because that's not why it's there. JesseRafe (talk) 09:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Artists Requirements