Template talk:Campaignbox World War II/Archive 1

message: Wouldn't Malta count as part of the Battle of the Mediterranean? Oberiko 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Malta was the eye of the storm, but until someone writs the Battle of the Med and has a section on Malta, the article on the famous convoy Operation Pedestal is better than nothing and it allows people not familiar with the theatre a glimpse at the scale of the naval engagement when one convoy involved an escort of 2 battle ships, 4 aircraft carriers, 7 cruisers and 32 destroyers! Although that was the big one, there was a convoy a month to Malta, either from Alexandria or from Gibraltar both involved a different flat top. So a lot of British naval stratagy was based around keeping the life line open. Philip Baird Shearer 14:35, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Malta

message: What happend in West Africa?
The Battle of Dakar/Operation Menace, September 1940. Vichy France won, so maybe that's why not many English speakers know about it. There was also the success of the Free French at Gabon, a smaller operation in November. Grant65 (Talk) 15:51, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
* http://users.swing.be/baten/bat/910.html
* http://www.ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/OperationMenace.September.html
* http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blwaugh2.htm
* http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/australia2.htm
* http://stonebooks.com/archives/960425.shtml
Yes I see what you mean. Philip Baird Shearer 16:52, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: West Africa

message: I have created a Mediterranean Theatre of World War II article and diverted the "Mediterranean" heading there, as the Mediterranean Theater of Operations  article is limited in its scope, i.e. it concentrates on US and British operations, post-1942 and doesn't give the broader geographical picture. (The MTO article is linked into the new article near the top.) There is some overlap with "Africa" and "Middle East", but that makes it easier for people to find particular campaign articles if they are not sure which geographical heading they come under.  Grant65 (Talk) 12:21, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
The reason why the Med. and Africa should come before the Middle East in the heading is that the naval campaign was the first in any of those areas, followed by the East African land campaign. Grant65 (Talk) 02:39, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
We have to use common sense rather than relying on names that the  military used for convenience. Just because the British MEC was in charge at that point, it doesn't mean that East Africa thereby becomes part of the area that most people call the Middle East (i.e. the area east of Suez). Because of the vagaries of the campaigns, most of these commands covered areas which the name did not suggest, e.g. South West Pacific Area didn't really cover much of the Pacific at all and South East Asia Command was really focussed on South Asia. We need to distinguish between geographical theatres/campaigns and the names of Allied/national military commands. Grant65 (Talk) 02:53, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
:*From the Southwest Asia page:
:::A map showing Southwest Asia - The term "Middle East" is more often used to refer to both Southwest Asia and some North African countries.
:* South Asia is also known as the Indian subcontinent. 
:* South East Asia ainland (also known as Peninsular Southeast Asia) and the archipelago (also known as Insular Southeast Asia or Maritime Southeast Asia).
:The theatres (and commands) roughly covered the areas as described in the Geography pages. So it not unreasoble to bundle in the Horn of Africa into the Middle East particularly as it has a strategic importance because it does command one side of the the Red Sea. (and that is leaving aside its cultural links). No use controling Suez if the enemy has a naval base or big guns on the Horn of Africa. The Mediterranean Naval war, was run from two commands one at Gib the other at Alexandria, so it was as much a part of the Middle East Theatre as the Mediterranean. As the campaigns in the Middle East, for those campaigns which are not shared, tended to happen before the campaigns which are not shared in the Mediterranean, it makes sense to place the Middle Eastern theatre before the Mediterranean theatre. Philip Baird Shearer 18:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mediterranean

message: I separated the mediterranean, africa and middle east section into two sections. Helps to clarify the geographic location and make more people aware that battles were fought in Iraq, Iran and Syria. Get more people interested. What's wrong with that?
:Because those campaigns which took place around the Mediterranean include the North Africa Campaign and the those of the Middle East include Western Desert Campaign (which is also a subcampaign of North Africa). The Balklands can be seen as the classic multi-theatre campaign: it took place in European, Mediterranean and Middle Eastern theatres. The European because the actions took place in Europe (Indeed at the moment there is a prototype article to include it in the Eastern Front (see Eastern Front (WWII)/Rewrite)), the Mediterranean because they bordered the Mediterranean and the Middle East because the Commonwealth supplied and commanded the campaign from Egypt and in doing so it affected the outcome of the Western Desert Campaign, (as it can also be argued that it affected  Operation Barbarossa). There is no reason why a campaign can not be in more than one theatre at the same time. The Middle East Campaign covers the sub campaigns of Anglo-Iraqi War,  Syria-Lebanon campaign and the Persian Corridor; but there is also a link from the Mediterranean Theatre of World War II dirctly to the Syria-Lebanon campaign because it can be argued that that campaign took place in lands bordering the Mediterranean.
:The campaigns listed in the Theatre articles are either accessible directly, or once removed in the WWIITheatre Template. Either through the theatre descriptions, or the as a sub-campaign in one of the listed campaigns. This seems to me to be a reasonable compromise. Eg one can get to the action in Lybia either throught the Middle East Theatre or the North Africa Campaign both list the more detailed Western Desert Campaign. This is similar to how ABDACOM is handled in the Pacific Asia Theatre section.
:Personally I am open to the idea of the Mediterranean theatre covering nothing but the Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) but you will run into opposition to that and it is perfectly valid to say that the Mediterranean consists of more that the period after the start of Operation Torch. (Just as the European Theatre covers more than the ETO). --Philip Baird Shearer 18:02, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's up with the change man? 

message: From the history of the template:
:The winter war is not normally considered part of World War II in English language sources because of this Winter War#Franco-British plans for a Scandinavian theatre -- 17:57, 1 August 2005 User:Philip Baird Shearer
:"Winter War" is not contemporary - it is part of World War II) -- 15:44, 2 August 2005 user:Dna-webmaster
Please explain how it is part of World War II as neither of the belligerents were engaged in the general configuration called World War II and the Western Allies seriously considered supporting Finland against the Soviets. Philip Baird Shearer 19:29, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I yield.:) I have moved it back to "contemporary". Thanks for your message, and most of all, thanks for your very clear motivation! I have actually never considered exactly these facts (put together), but since USSR attacked Finland before Germany attacked USSR, it is quite clear that you are right: The Winter War was not a part of WW2. It is not everyday one learns something new, so my thanks to you! Regards, Dennis. Dna-Dennis 20:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: "Please explain how it is part of World War II as neither of the belligerents were engaged in the general configuration called World War II" Oh really? Sure USSR wasn't participating in a pact called Molotov Ribbentrop? You don't consider it to be part of WW2? I can't really see what's your point - if Britain planned to support Finland, does it matter whether it was part of WW2 or not? The configuration was the same in Invasion of Poland. --Pudeo (Talk) 22:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Winter War 

message: According to the article, the conflict ended on September 16th, 1939; two weeks after World War II started. Oberiko 23:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Soviet-Japanese Border War

message: A proposal has been made here to restructure this template into the standard campaignbox format; any comments or suggestions would be very welcome! Kirill Lokshin 15:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turning this into campaignboxes