Talk:CONCACAF Gold Cup

message: What does this table mean? Nothing as far as I can tell. It shows the cumulative results of all teams at the tournament, but ranking them makes no sense given the disparity in participation. Recommend remove or restructure so that it isn't set up as a league table (perhaps just shows W-D-L record for each side as a list). 220.253.186.52 (talk) 04:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Alltime League Table

message: Wait why is South Korea listed there? They arent part of CONCACAF. Are they?
:The Gold Cup invites other nations to participate in the tournament hence the Korean participation Thecolemanation 09:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: South Korea

message: How are teams eliminated and/or points collected?  This is the only thing I could find from the web, but is it the same every year?
:The 2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup will consist of three groups of four teams for the first round with the top two from each group, along with the best two third-placed teams, progressing to the quarterfinals with the group stage running from 6-13 June throughout five stadiums in the USA.
:Presumably, the quarterfinals on up are single elimination...
It is because the stadiums in the United States are better.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.183.52.103 (talk) 03:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs more information on how the tournament works

message: I looked around for a source on this, but I can't find one.  If you included it, please give a source. Thecrookedcap 00:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been trying to find a source for this and all i've come across is this: http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/articles/2007/06/06/gold_cup_now_glittering_event/ Famousian 03:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Toronto has been announced as a host city, but I don't think that means that Canada is the exclusive host nation.  Mountainhawk 16:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Canada Hosting in '09?

message: I know this subject was covered above, but it looked so messy I wanted to start this down here instead. As proof that an article for the CONCACAF Championship needs to be created and split from this one: FIFA recognizes the U.S. victory in the 2007 Gold Cup as "their fourth overall, bringing them level with arch-rivals Mexico." So if FIFA only recognizes four Mexican Gold Cup titles, and CONCACAF lists the champions in different ways on their website, identifying only Gold Cup champions as such, in my mind that means only Gold Cup results should be included here in the Gold Cup article. Thoughts? -- 74.192.3.135 (talk) 14:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The confusion here arises from the fact there this is one article for two different competitions.  The Gold Cup replaced the Championship, but FIFA and CONCACAF distinguishes them from one another.  I would suggest a separate article for the Championship, where those results can be recorded.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.241.124 (talk) 12:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Regardless of what the article states, CONCACAF clearly recognizes the events as different.  So does FIFA.  Follow the links above.  The Gold Cup is not a "renamed" Championship; it is a separate event which serves the same function.  The articles need to be split.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.25.240 (talk) 07:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet, the fact that the two serve the same function is reason enough to keep the two tournaments together.  The amount of content for either is not enough to mandate an article split. KyuuA4 (talk) 22:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The headline clearly states that this is a CONCACAF Gold Cup article.  It says nothing about "Various CONCACAF tournaments that fulfilled the function of determining the continental champion."  If you insist on keeping them together, then we need a clearer indication of this, complete with separate tables for each tournament.  --74.192.25.240 (talk) 15:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if necessary, that headline can be changed to "History of CONCACAF Championships".  The premise would be similar to History of National Football League Championship.  The NFL had undergone a similar change back in 1970 where its main championship changed name to the Super Bowl. The same idea can be used here.  I seem to notice other championships, like the Central America championship.  After the title change, that can be merged here too, as a title change like that would incorporate every soccer tournament with some kind of association to CONCACAF. KyuuA4 (talk) 21:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, the classic "We can always change the headline" argument.  "If a Gold Cup article shouldn't incorporate prior championship material, then let's just call it a History of CONCACAF Winners article instead."  No way!  Why not just split one of those off from this one, and make this one a 1991-and-up article dealing solely with the Gold Cup?  If the issue is that we need more material to make two separate articles, then let's get more material...I volunteer.  The analogy with the NFL is a bad one, by the way, since the main championship didn't "change names."  There had already been four Super Bowls before the NFL and AFL merged under the new NFL banner, and during those years the Super Bowl didn't decide the championship of the NFL--instead, the NFL champion went on to play in the Super Bowl. --74.192.25.240 (talk) 01:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Splitting CONCACAF Championship Results from CONCACAF Gold Cup results

message: Is it reasonable to recommend a Top Goal Scorers table?  This is presuming data for such exists. KyuuA4 (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Scorers Table 

message: The final round of CONCACAF Championship 1985 is composed by the second and third round of world cup qualifying as reported on RSSSF archive...and so the fourth position is for El Salvador due to better goal difference... Stanza13
:Good catch.  --74.192.25.240 (talk) 15:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Canadian I almost feel guilty claiming the 1985 win, as Mexico didn't take part in WCQ due to their hosting the finals.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.236.93.210 (talk) 20:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1985 Concacaf Championship 

message: When I talk about distinction between Championship and Gold Cup in the same page, I means as I do on the table for Host and Apparences....I think is the better solution...Stanza13 (talk) 15:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur with NeilCanada.  --74.192.46.234 (talk) 19:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Agreed. Let's go ahead and change it back if there's no objections. Themodelcitizen (talk) 05:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Additions

message: Don't know if it is just my web browser, but for me the half the tournament results page appears at the very bottom of the page, instead of where it should be. I can't seem to get it back where it is supposed to be. Has this happened to anyone else? --Differentgravy (talk) 13:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament table appearing at the bottom of the page 

message: This has been brought up multiple times on this page but nothing has ever come of it. I think we really need to separate the two articles because it's obvious that they are two distinct tournaments. Really the only evidence that is needed is here:  Scroll down to Gold Cup Winners and notice that it only goes back to 1991. CONCACAF clearly recognizes that Gold Cup as being distinct from the CONCACAF Championship (i.e. not simple a renamed tournament), otherwise the results would go back much further. Eightball (talk) 16:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gold Cup vs CONCACAF Championship 

message: I believe there is a distinction that needs to be made here as to the three phases of the main national competition for CONCACAF nations. I posit what I believe is the correct interpretation that should be given.
The first chapter in the history of a competition for CONCACAF national teams came with the original CONCACAF nations' cup. This much is clear - just as there is a European cup of nations and a Copa America, CONCACAF had it's own version.
Afterwards came the period when the World Cup qualification format supposedly doubled as the CONCACAF competion for national teams. What this means is that since the format became that of a final group in a single venue, there was no need to host another separate competition as this winner became the de facto CONCACAF Champion.
It is my position that these competitions should not be counted as CONCACAF championships as they were only World Cup qualifiers. The proof I can offer for this is shown on the country profiles for countries in the FIFA website, where for example Mexico is shown with only 6 continental championships (4 Gold Cups and 2 CONCACAF Championships, while ommiting the single top position Mexico achieved in one of those single-venue World Cup qualification final rounds).
This is in sharp contrast to the situation in OFC, where the OFC Nations' Cup is specifically used as World Cup Qualification.
Lastly, the fianl chapter is the Gold Cup itself, where a new competition reactivated the main CONCACAF national team competition (thus leaving behind, with it, the era of single-venue World Cup qualification tournaments).
As such, the situation of whether the Gold Cup needs to have a separate article than the CONCACAF Championship is not that critical, as ultimately it does crown the confederation champion
What I do believe merits more thought is the situation as to whether those single-venue World Cup qualification tournaments count as confederation championships. According to the FIFA website, they do not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.172.55.126 (talk) 02:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  CONCACAF Championship vs World Cup qualifiers vs Gold Cup 

message: How has the US become the permanent host of the CONCACAF Gold Cup ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 22:49, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Permanent Host 

message: Given that the CONCACAF championship in both its incarnations are treated under this united article, it would seem consistent to me that the numbering of wins is inclusive of both titles.  The articles are inconsistent.  Canada's only Gold Cup title (2000) is listed as their second (fair, considering their 1985 title), and Mexico's 2009 win was for a long time (until this morning) recorded as their 8th title (which includes CONCACAF titles from 1965, 1971 and 1977 as well as 4 previous Gold Cups), but Mexico's 93/96/98/03 titles are listed as 1st/2nd/3rd/4th wins.   This is untenable.  I cannot see how non-inclusive count can be valid when the status of this article so clearly established the principle that one title is the successor of the other, but I seek consensus here before making changes.  Kevin McE (talk) 18:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: According to FIFA, the official editions are only those from 1991 on. The editions of the Concacaf Championship are not mentioned by FIFA. --VAN ZANT (talk) 09:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wins count in specific articles 

message: According to this official FIFA press kit, FIFA only recognizes the Gold Cup as the official Concacaf continental competition. FIFA doesn't mention the Concacaf Championship. So, was the Concacaf Championship an unofficial competition? I would like to know your opinion. I don't agree with FIFA. --VAN ZANT (talk) 09:14, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: FIFA's inconsistency: their page for Mexico, for example, includes their 1965 and 1971 titles, but not 1977, as well as their Gold Cup wins under Continental titles.  Kevin McE (talk) 09:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concacaf Championship - Gold Cup 

message: I think that for the table that has the current champion and the team with the most titles we should only add the team with the most titles. If there are 2 or more teams tied for the most titles we should add them as well. The S in parentheses that appears on the part The Most Successful Team(s) means that the team with the most titles be added, should there be a tie in most Gold Cup titles won then you add all the teams that are tied for the most titles. If you check, this is how it's done for other similar international soccer tournaments like the UEFA European Championship wiki page and the Copa America wiki page. Vegeta87 (talk) 02:38, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the tables for the other tournament pages could be changed to reflect all historical winners instead. Boilersrock (talk) 10:09, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

text: All tournament pages both club and national team have the info table with current champions and with the team with the most titles (the world cup page does it like this as well). In my opinion I think we should do it like all the other pages for soccer tournaments do it.Vegeta87 (talk) 00:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't see this talk section before, but I edited it as above to show only the most successful team. It previously showed all three teams that ever one, which defeats the purpose of the "most successful" section and which information is already included later in the article. IPs keep reverting these edits, so I'll make a request for article protection if it's reverted again. ~Araignee (talk • contribs)  16:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This continued reversion of correct content is ridiculous. Put in a request for semi-protection, as it's from IPs and they aren't even trying to explain. I just now looked at the history and saw it's been going on far more than I thought. ~Araignee (talk • contribs)  04:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate you having protection being put in for the Most Successful team info box. I had been reverting it and explaining why It was incorrect to add all teams that have won the tournament. I even started this talk page to see if anyone would discuss it. Thank you again.Vegeta87 (talk) 23:41, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most Gold Cup Titles 

message: The map featured in this article and in the template does not include the most recent results. Can we possibly get an updated Map, which correctly displays the United States as holding 5 titles instead of the four that it currently displays. Thank you. Regards, Subzzee (talk) 22:17, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Map of winning CONCACAF countries

message: Someone did major edits and I'm upset that it occured. There is no evidence in his claim neither.  Bluhaze777 (talk) 14:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edition of page 

message: This has been debated on this talk page before, years ago.  But apparently whoever changed the page needs reminding -- the CONCACAF Gold Cup and the CONCACAF Championship may have served the same purpose, but they are not the same event.  The current Wikipedia page for the Gold Cup says that it was founded in 1963, and that Mexico has won the most titles with eleven.  Both these statements are directly contradicted by CONCACAF's information page about the history of the Gold Cup, which states clearly that the inaugural Gold Cup championship was held in 1991, and that Mexico has won the most titles with eight.  Thus, the statement that the Gold Cup "was previously referred to as the CONCACAF Championship before being renamed" is unsupported by the tournament's organizers.  The CONCACAF Championship information and results need to be segregated from the CONCACAF Gold Cup information and results, and the difference between the two needs to be made clear.  --71.156.28.98 (talk) 21:51, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are CONCACAF Championship results combined with Gold Cup results?