Talk:Sibel Kekilli

message: I think the first sentence is confusing for Heilbronn IS in western germany (south-western)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.19.6.211 (talk) 19:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence is indicating that, at the time Kekilli lived there, Heilbronn was part of the country West Germany, not that is is or was in the west of Germany. —chaos5023 (talk) 20:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A country calld West Germany never existed. It was and is the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal REpublic of Germany) which was founded in 1949 and still exists (it gained some additional territory in 1990)134.3.76.108 (talk) 10:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heilbronn / Western Germany ? 

message: I will semi-protect the page for a few days due to recent vandalisms. Kudret abi 05:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected 

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: There were two sentences here describing Kekilli's general and professional education. While I have no doubt the original authors tried their best to translate or paraphrase what they read in German sources, the English text painted a very misleading picture. According to the English text, Kekilli left school at 16 (i.e. before graduation), did an apprenticeship (which outside of Donald Trump's show isn't really an everyday US item) and then worked in garbage disposal - invoking the mental image of her moving garbage tons around. 
Though literally correct, that could hardly be less true. First, Kekilli attended "Realschule" and successfully graduated with "Mittlere Reife" - an intermediate graduation. Germany has a three-tier school system, and Realschule is the middle tier. Furthermore, given the fact Kekilli managed to get one of the rare and coveted public administration apprenticeships at her city, for which not only many of her fellow Realschule graduates competed, but also quite a few - older - graduates of the upper tier "Gynmasium", we can safely assume that her graduation marks were pretty good. During her apprenticeship she continued to attend a public special school for apprentices ("Berufsschule"), typically 1 or 2 days a week. 
Two years later, she finished the final exams of her apprenticeship and graduated as a fully qualified public administration specialist ("Verwaltungsfachangestellte") - a necessary requirement for a large number of administration jobs in public, major church and semi-public institution administrations. And again, her marks, apparently, were good enough for her employer/educator - the city of Heilbronn - to offer her full time employment in her chosen profession, which she took up for another 2 years.  
So the mental picture of Kekilli as dropout garbage hauler at the bottom of society should be replaced by a decently educated salaried white collar worker in a next-to-unfireable muncipal administration job, at age 20 making about 30-36k a year(in today's US$), which puts her firmly in or above lower middle class in Germany. 
My aplogies for overdramatizing a bit, but the point needed to be made :-) Tullius2 (talk) 23:10, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You're mostly right, but the school she attended, the Fritz-Ulrich-Schule in Heilbronn-Böckingen, is not a Realschule. As of now, it is a "Grund- und Werkrealschule", which is not the same school type, but a combination of an elementary school with a special type of secondary school found only in Baden-Württemberg. In 1996, when Kekilli "graduated", it was a "Grund- und Hauptschule". It is possible to achieve the Mittlere Reife not only at the Realschule, but also at other types of schools, this varies among the German states and has changed over time. This article says she was in the first class to get the Mittlere Reife there and that indeed she was one of the best students. The article also mentions her (non-identical) twin sister which so far isn't mentioned in the (English) Wikipedia article. --Rosenzweig (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  a few remarks on Kekilli's education and qualification 

message: The way the article does not state her pornographic past itself, only reports that a specific and named source does, is not how things are done. It is Wikipedia that should state the facts, and then provide references that verify it. 
The way the fact SK has a pornographic past was previously reported, focus was moved away from the fact itself, and put on the reporting source and the subsequent scandal. That is a separate event, and should be mentioned separately. To be clear: that the news story was broken by Bild Zeitung has no relevance on the basic fact, and should be kept separate.
You don't see Wikipedia say "this and this happened, as reported by so-and-so source". Instead, the way to write this is (example):
* This and this happened[4]
Ref
---
[4] So-and-so source.
Btw, I'll go add add a second source backing up the basic statement, apart from the Deutsche Welle article, which seems more interested in the scandal than the fact itself. 
CapnZapp (talk) 13:09, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  reporting on her past 

message: Turkish female pornographic film actors
German female pornographic film actors
these to links should be there at the bottom that way it links to the other page pornographic actors by nationallty page
24.207.50.107 (talk) 08:16, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. Certainly not "Turkish...", because Kekilli is not a Turkish national nor has she lived in Turkey. As regards the "German...", that is questionable at best, because Kekilli is not notable for her porn work; rather, her porn career became a matter of (tabloid) public interest only after her breakthrough as a serious actress.  Sandstein  11:54, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  For the record the section that says she was born to a family of "Turkish origin" is not correct. She was born a Turkish citizen to two Turkish citizens. She became a German citizen after application following the change in the laws when she was an adult. She still remains a Turkish national and a Turkish citizen. She is a dual national and a de jure dual citizen. 108.18.78.59 (talk) 10:45, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Just for the record: She was a Turkish national until the age of 19 or so, only then did she apply for German citizenship. That was before she did any films or videos though AFAIK. --Rosenzweig (talk) 19:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

text: Sandstein: that is not how categories work. Categories are intended to be complete collections of articles that fulfil particular objective criteria. For example, everyone who is known to be gay is categorized as such, even if it's only mentioned in passing in one sentence in their article. That doesn't imply that their homosexuality is a majorly notable aspect of their life. – Smyth\talk 22:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we have a bit of respect for people's privacy? (Thank you, BLP.) Categories do, well, categorize and label people in binary, absolute ways. Yes, they are sometimes overused for agenda-pushing. That doesn't mean they should be. Feketekave (talk) 19:30, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

text: For future reference, WP:COP#N says: "an article about a person should be categorized in terms of occupation only by the reason(s) for the person's notability. [...] Many people had assorted jobs before taking the one that made them notable; those other jobs should not be categorized." Fair enough. – Smyth\talk 12:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It is inherently relevant for several reasons. Pornographic film acting is acting, a type of acting, and the woman is an actress. It is much more relevant than her job as a cleaner. Also Game of Thrones particularly is well known for hiring people from pornographic films. There are about ten pornographic film actresses who have appeared.10:52, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pornographic actor catagories 

message: nationality = German/Turkish
110.148.117.91 (talk) 05:47, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there reliable sources (WP:RS) that establish that she has or had Turkish nationality?  Sandstein  06:12, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor Sing 11:01, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Her parents were Turkish citizens at the time of her birth. Right now the wording "Turkish origin" implies something other than Turkish citizenship, which is wrong. As a child of Gastarbeiter myself, who like Kekilli, got German citizenship as an adult, I know this issue well. Anyone who knows the timing of the German law knows she was born a Turkish national and Turkish citizen -- and she did not (and could not) lose either under Turkish law when she elected German citizenship as an adult. She is dejure and defacto Turkish citizen and Turkish national in addition to being a German citizen. ALL the source material tat discusses her background already in the article sources says she elected German citizenship as an adult -- ie not born German citizen. Her parents were not German citizens but Turkish citizens, giving birth to a Turkish citizen in Germany.108.18.78.59 (talk) 03:25, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds plausible, but per WP:BLP we really do need a reliable source that says so before we can add it to the article.  Sandstein  06:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Why do you say that "she did not (and could not) lose either under Turkish law when she elected German citizenship as an adult", meaning "Turkish citizen and Turkish national"? Do you think that Turkey is generally refusing Turks to relinquish their Turkish citizenship? The German government list several such states here, but Turkey is not on that list. AFAIK, the norm was that for a Turk to acquire German citizenship, (s)he had to relinquish Turkish citizenship. This was changed last year (I think), but only for those born in 1990 or later who were born in Germany and grew up there. Kekilli was born in 1980 and became a German national in or around 1999. --Rosenzweig (talk) 22:17, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

text: Kekilli actually formally petitioned Turkey to relinquish her her citzizenship when she applied for German Citizenship in 1999. One of the reasons moving her was a bureaucratic mishap by Turkish authorities that managed to sabotage her attempt to marry her then-boyfriend. She talked about that in a TV interview; German Wikipedia has a link to a (now defunct) transcript of that interview. Wefa (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

text: This source, which is cited in the article, appears to confirm that she originally held Turkish (not German) citizenship and needed to apply for a marriage license from Turkey ("Zuerst traf das aus der Türkei angeforderte Ehefähigkeitszeugnis zu spät ein - Sibel hatte noch keinen deutschen Pass"). German nationality law does not automatically consider anyone born in Germany to be a citizen of Germany (and presumably also wasn't doing that in 1980). — BarrelProof (talk) 03:55, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2014 

message: Hi, there should be an article about her GOT character Shae, right now there's this: Shae (A Song of Ice and Fire) (redirecting to Tyrion Lannister). Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:26, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shae 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please reset the comments page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.108.27.26 (talk) 09:09, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apophasis 

message: In the Television section of her filmography pls add her starring role in "Bullets". Pls amend the table to:
Year    	Title          	Role           	Notes
20102017	Tatort         	Sarah Brandt   	14 episodes
20112014	Game of Thrones	Shae           	20 episodes
2018    	Bullets        	Madina Taburova	10 episodes
Thx
118.209.33.89 (talk) 13:19, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Done NiciVampireHeart 13:35, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 June 2019 

message: This diff shows the effect of a partial revert by two editors of some edits I made a few hours ago. I am trying to figure out what is objectionable about the remaining differences.
#I replaced a bare-url reference (see ) with a completed  citation template that I believe accurately describes the cited source. How could that be undesirable?
#In several places, the article is quoting Ms Kekilli as saying things that that appear to be obviously different from what she said. This involves matters of translation. MOS:FOREIGNQUOTE appears to support my changes, as far as I can tell. In what way were these changes undesirable?
#The WP:MOS discourages using Wikilinks within quotes. I remove several links within quotes that are for terms that should be familiar to most readers. How is that undesirable?
#I changed a fragmented quote (bigoted' and 'full of hate) to a non-fragmented quote that uses the same number of words (bigoted, hypocrites and full of hate). How is that undesirable?
#As per my comment above, I added a sentence saying that she originally held Turkish (not German) citizenship and needed to apply for a marriage license from Turkey, with a citation to a source that was already cited in the article. How is that undesirable?
#Three cited web pages have actual titles that are different from the title we are displaying for them in the article. How could correcting that be undesirable?
#As I believe is conventional in many articles, I inserted an alternative name by which the topic has been known and has been credited in a number of films, along with providing a cited source that I believe is reliable. I checked the reliable sources noticeboard archives to confirm that the source seemed reliable. The alternative name can also be found in several other of the cited sources. I can understand that this might be controversial. However, my impression is that if the subject is well known by that alternative name, it should be desirable to include the alternative name in the article. I think it is not disputable that the subject is well known by that alternative name.
Can some explanation be offered, please? — BarrelProof (talk) 15:52, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Have restored your version now other than the part that was disputed by user @Sandstein. Personally i think its fine to include her porn name but i can see both arguments --- FMSky (talk) 16:14, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partial revert of 18 April 2021 

message: Ì noticed the citation needed tag next to the sentence on Kekilli's Job training. The source for that quoted by German Wikipedia is an article in her home town paper, the Heilbronner Stimme. I suggest listing that article as a source here as well, since English language papers tend to get confused by aspects of the German education system that have no equivalence in the US and usually gloss over it. Wefa (talk) 13:44, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Language sources 

message: 74.14.200.10 (talk) 19:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: --FMSky (talk) 11:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  most prestigious award, not "awards" 

message: Sibel Kekilli's theatre debut in 2024 is called "Fremd" by Michel Friedman.
https://www.berliner-ensemble.de/en/production/fremd 37.84.170.130 (talk) 14:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Premiere was on 26. Oct 2023. my bad. 37.84.197.60 (talk) 20:14, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theatre debut as a guest actor at Berliner Ensemble