Sgwrs:Y Fad Felen

message: Unrhyw syniad be ydy'r gair Saesneg? Llywelyn2000 06:12, 26 Mawrth 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Plague of Justinian, o bosib? —Adam (sgwrs • cyfraniadau) 00:30, 6 Ebrill 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: :Adam seems to be right: our friends at :en: wrote that "the plague of Justinian ... first arrived in the British Isles in 544 or 545," which matches this:
replies: text: ::The question of whether the Justinianic Plague had severe effects in northern Europe as well as the Mediterranean is very controversial. Unfortunately, there are no detailed descriptions of the symptoms of the various epidemics in Britain mentioned by Celtic and Anglo-Saxon sources, such as the Pestis Flava or "Yellow Plague," but obviously this does not prove that none of them could have been plague caused by Y. pestis; it simply means that the question cannot be answered one way or the other. It is chronologically quite possible and intrinsically very likely that the epidemic called blefed, which struck Ireland in 544 AD according to the Irish Annals, was the last ripple of the first wave of the Justinianic Plague moving across Europe. — Lester K. Little, Plague And the End of Antiquity: The Pandemic of 541-750 (p. 257)

text: :and
replies: text: ::The plague of 544 is called blefed by the Irish annalists, and the British Annales Cambriae also seem to waver between their records for this outbreak and the subsequent one. The Welsh annals variously refer to these occurrences as pestis ﬂava, lues ﬂava, in Welsh, y fad felen, lallwelen. (p. 218)

text: :So the Welsh y fad felen = the Irish blefed = (probably) Plague of Justinian. Mattie (sgwrs) 02:37, 6 Ebrill 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Diddorol iawn. Dim son amdano yn Gwyddoniadur Cymru! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 07:25, 6 Ebrill 2012 (UTC)

text: ::Actually, probably not.

text: ::(a) "Yellow plague" was (apparently) used in Irish to describe relapsing fever and in any case most probably describes a disease that causes some form of jaundice, which Justinian's plague didn't.

text: ::(b) Even discounting Aneurin's description of the disease as a sexy woman; discounting the 12th-c. Book of Llandaf's description of the "yellow plague" as a towering cloud or downpour that killed any animal who touched it; and discounting the triads & al.'s crediting of the disease to the piles of unburied Irish corpses on Anglesey left by Cadwallon... you're still left with the Annales Cambriae (B) that describes the year as mortalitas magna fuit in britannia mailgun. guineth. obiit. vnde dicitur hir hun wailgun en llis Ros. tunc fuit lallwelen. ("There was great death in Britain. Mailgwn Gwynedd passed on. Hence the expression "the long sleep of Maelgwn at Rhoscourt". Then there was lallwelen.")

text: ::Tunc is your after-what-i-was-just-talking-about "then", not your another-name-for-this-is "then". Thus, it seems like the "great death" in Britain (here) and in Ireland (548/9 in the Annals of Ulster) was Justinian's plague, but the "yellow plague" was not: you've simply got two outbreaks around the same time. Further, the AC seems to credit Maelgwn's death to the great plague and not to the yellow one. Possibly it got switched later since it made a better story. LlywelynII (sgwrs) 16:29, 7 Chwefror 2013 (UTC)

text: So to OP's question, this Welsh outbreak is called the "the Yellow Plague of Rhos" which most likely came from a disease that caused jaundice; there was another outbreak around the same time called "the Plague of Justinian" which was almost certainly a strain of the bubonic plague just a little different from the black death one or the current one; and the two probably aren't the same thing. LlywelynII (sgwrs) 16:48, 7 Chwefror 2013 (UTC)
Dim gair yn y Gwyddoniadur Cymru am y Fad Felen. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 04:49, 16 Mehefin 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yr enw Saesneg