Parliamentary Intelligenc...
The Times, 1824-05-12T00:00:00

Mr. BAOGDEY, and others fromn the Cotrnions, broulght up the transfer dividends bill, the glass duties bill, and three private bills, wli cli were read a first time. The British Musesum biU was committed. The Earl of I,VERPOOL, agreeably to the notice he gave last night. moved the revival of the couimittee of last session on the scotcc judicature, anid that the report of the commissioners into the state of the courts in Scotland be referred to the said committee.- Ordered accordingly. Thc Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved the third reading of' the .Ncwfocindland judkuture bill butt at the request of the Earl of Darnley. postponed the proceeAing to another day. The Earl of DARLINGTON presented a petition from the journeyamen meclhanics of the borourgh of Darlington against the combination laws. Lord fROLL1AND presented a petition from Manchester against the insolvent debtors' bill. Tbe lllarquis of LANSDOlV' presented a petition froni Bal- berggep, jn the gounty of Dublin, agaiast the repeal of the Irish fishery bounties; but the petition was afterards withdrawn in con- sequsenceof an inf'ormalty. He nsext presentede a pedition from the linen.manufaeturers and merchantsof >Dublin, praying that thtir ~dsfdpswedfli~dd h (A~ o1i Vil'irnd as iri'tbeii~ psrt- e,etc state they drll ijTls Otit tt4ile :the naoble rairr- qwss likewise 'jisrsfs' i'ttUOl 'rbh 'h-inqltbbtaltibs of 'the pariih of Ca.teLh4i1 h cuayo VitirlfaOaiut -tlsetili~ cein; Potitioo bill.' Lord UOLLAND had, a'ii 1eLitoi to presenit Which 'wss well worthty .the atrenaisbi of 'tbelr'.I9r4%,hiipt Uf was from the 'Lord Mayor, Aldermen, Arid C4~i10M)i Cdtihncii 0 iC city Of L,ondon, aLnd prayed tint the alien bill whc asnwbf6 psh house mighjt not piASS inito a laW. Thc.pttln'sapcrdd gee(dge fronm passing thi bill JiowV IhAQ al all), ft6cr'jrirod', for they wereI of oIpinlion that it. was propt,Iiit&l 'giioiinds likely in' involve thiis countrv in war. The fAlirthb0t.6&teid td it, that it countenanced' tile cha~rge thiat the GO:Vir httt ls onr vsaprvnie general conspiracy of the continenltal slespotA against frcesloo'. Thie J;arl of L'IVERP(OO, op Ilte oricr of, th (lay r6r ilhe se- conid reading of, thcealien, bill, rose to a1crestlicsther lordstrips on that mesie e observed. tfi4 tlhc sffljet wass onewich haIrld oft~n -tie nder thecir l9rdshipsi onvPtdTalTOathtItcudntb necessary now to enter at lengtb into tile topics wnonneted wi Lli the bill, alil thle argumsents 'or 'it lldving already beert repcatkdy urTed Ili himyself sn.dT others., J~e waii, h6w.evci: s-o far f olir t T-Meeing witht thec petitioners to, yhom the hrsble. bsrd had .jnst allude , ti the chiange of' cireunlstiliizt5 re4cTLd tlle.hilllcOeese,c thatliI saw in that very citarne'trdr nfstngw 'whicil hilrordfi an'Al'Idition'id argumentlor conttilnuinjg it. pe'A Xbosner ocasiops, wihen this bill hill beeun betore.the hoxuse, a A! ea Ial liAd beeh SRauI coVce`Mrng Mhg rijcht Possessed it eommots- W ITY. tfic.to'Wnito. ycm'ove Altens ouit of' the countrv. ln hix judgmnent lie hard never. ijit with any 4rgumictit wInich r efuted thiat in favouri of 'tlie cosnosto law r,ght of the croirn. bi hrcg.ermie cooriit:edl tht the crown possessed ti' right of' sending niot oftly, alienl ciltuslics 'but a]) otilier alt ., time oit- Of tle. country.' Trhis, liowevcr, De.,, sIr' Itn~ t a very clutnady way, it' let to rho exercis of' thec..prerog.1tj ve, it, it was to bone by ndictnleiln, eOF any othr %;iXtptpou& tngio, the requisite pro,",inide, old ot be obtained. *Hricn eiltv ninata-uvre was necessary to regLttlte thec MaTMer Of cxeceisijng thie right Whicht was vested' in the crown.. rt- Was iso tbis ground tltat Ithe original alien bill was, passed irs 17992. - t was i'stroduced,not. in a 'tinme of war, but riuring pesces,nad.whea. there prev'ajLcd anI 5nrr%6u5l$desire for the preservation of peaqe. lieC was., bowever, ready to admit that there existed then special: cirrtumstactce Iwhi5h did liot exist at present, andI which mlight be tltooghrt to afford some additioisal ar-gumnent in its favour ; but'in she main peint tite cases were Alike. The original, -bill was introduced to prevent tile mnischief apprehended fromn revolutioniary principles. Thec obec thecn was to pre-vent the ameli cvil isiich was itntendedi to be guare= agaist b thepresent bill. It- wag continuLed after Fyaaee, thec conraantvhchtemi=ea rnialdr-e,dcae war against Enigland, when it miighit be %aid to hiave been less necessaryV; because, whethier the cwrow had ordsiad not the riltof remioving aliens trencrally,it certainly poissessed tlhatof expelling air enemies,or otmakiing them prisonersof var,ifthelatteroDurseshould he preferred. Having said thus much on tbeoriKin afthe measure, the sole question which renmainied was whether thiere existed suffitient raoforeweving the bill in .1824 ; and lie was perf1-ctly willing to allo, tat i hecould not show thiat it was ofilnportaitee tZlthe pulic. in ors tat h nemIle Soi I b co t nu d,i toughtnoot to pass TheJ bill, be could assture their loTrdahips, waa, not introduced, as lied been asserted, f,ir the purpoe of conciliating foreign powers. It was in- t+oduced solely for"Britisht objects and British Interests. if l_ di not fully establishv this, he felt that he sheold not lay a suflicient ground for adoptinig the measure. Thbeir- lordsahips hiad lived and still did live in a timie when titere prevailed a great desire for poli- ;tical experitnents Thev existed in an age of revolutions, when Ievery country around themi bed bedn miore or less convulsed, and 1wlen those convulsions had grown out of opinions which propagated I withiin their own mnemories and whiebh extendedI into countries where no revolution had beers experienced. It was surely tite d1uts, of Government to guard against the danger arising from such opinions; and the natore of the danger to be apprehended by certain states had been fuzlly admitted by a noble baron, whio had dtescribed tire contrat for political reforio ihow goling on to be similar to tkat which two centurie-s sun took place for religious reform. If atler havng itnsse al te cnvusints which the propagaEion of revoutinaryopiionshadprodcedin Europe ; if after hiaviRg see tie ounry enage fo 2 yersin a most arduous war, in conseuenceof thse oinion ; ani ifafter looking back at all'thle dangrs hrogh hic thecoutryhadpased,he were oure of those whostil fare th efict ofsuc dotries,heconfessed hre should pot feel particularly ashame on that account. Such a feelineg was one whicli would prevail artiong men front an Anxious wish for the 'preservaino h aeof the country, and the security of their families. Oni the avn cae of Freserv-ing tile peace of the COUntry, there could be no difference of' opinion. On that suibject he might 'quote not only the opinions, of the friends of highi monarchical doe. trinesR, but of those whio would wisht to he quotedi As the advocates of popular principles ainti vindlicators of tile rights of marskind. He re- inembered a righit hon. gentieman whose opinion the noble bAron opposite would respect, having, on the question of peace, madle ia verry remarkable quotation, a quotation which he repeated olinmore than one occasion. Is was iniquisrimarn pucern, justissinro bello uricfero. For his own part, he was riot disposed to go quite so far, thiouigh he would make great sacrifices for the preservation of peace. a-id not less to gutard against those revolutionary- priniciples wyhich had been productiv-e of so isiuch evil. 'With respect to the inter- ference of foreign powers in the atfairs of any state no pers-on mere con4cemned it titan hie did ;but why did he so coniAemn it? Upon tLe same grouind on which he hadi condemned the nretensions of the Coinvention of France. Hlis disapprobation wa' foulnded on the general principle that every country was the sole judge of ire own concerns ; but it didi no, follow that governments were niot to takec precautions against the dangers, they imight have to airprehend from rthe influence of opinions or- ether circumstances. With these feel- inks, and considering that their lordships lived in times in whiceh, from what had passed, they might expect to see attempts at revolu- tion made in other countries, whether with success or riot, he could not thinik that he was wrong irn uirging the manption of' a mneasure renin(itg to secure both external and internal peace. There had been no inistalcer, since 172 to the present miomient, of any revolutionary convulsion in whichi the unsuccessful party, did not look to this country as a place of refuige, and sorry should he be to see that re- fuge refuscd. But their lordships m'ust be aware that, in conse- quence or mainwtaitntg tlliS principle of hospitality, a pretext was.af- forded for~ applications from foreig-n powers. An finstanice of this kind occurred in 18Q2, when a sweeping demand was made by a f6breign gove-rnment, whiich waLs resisted, as all such demands ou'ght to be. There was, thien, nothiing in the present measure witich could induce persons desirous of taking refuge in this couintry to suppose that the righ-ts ofr hospitalitr wouild be denied the:u- but aLt the. same timre it was, necessary 'to take care that those individuals be riot pernitted to mnake this country a focus of conspiracy and revolt aains't foreign governmnents. The aliens well knew the'situation in which the Government of this country stood ; thiey were aware, that from the control which puiblic opinion exercised in this country-. tnev were in no danger of being vexatiously arrested or n an way nusl dealt with; but -if thiey persisted in making thts countr trseat of conspiracies, it wa~s fir that thie Govemnment shoul hav thepowe oreoigtherm-it was fit that mneans~ shouldI be afforded to prevent the acrs of indivirluals from conmpro- ruising the peace of the country. Thei fair questioni for every man to put on the bill was, whethler there were any danger of tlte power it I g-ranted beinig abused?e or whether thte advanrtag es of the_Meas;ure were not more than equiivalent to that dan-er i? Titere the wholeI ,ueation stood, and there hr was disposed toTeave it. The argument I ~or the bill was, in his mind, very mucit fortified by whiat hadl passed elisewhiere, and occuvrrences which had taken place with respect to matters not rem,otely connected with the objects of this.1 measure. Ile never would say that in this, counitry every person was not enti- tled tolsold his ow-n oninion as to what was going on in outter parts of the world; but at the same time he was not one of those who, whien Ithe Gavergment of this country wast neutral, thought it al- lowable for anv portion of the people of this country to take a hos- tile part again;t one ot the contending pzrties ; or that it was ju~sti_ liable for any persons in this country to assist a patty in another against its (lovernoment. lf, however, any. thing of this kind had taken plce, thaLt circumstance afforded an additional reason for adptn ct present measure. It was sueydsrbetat cite Go- vernment shiould not he placed in stich a -situation with respect tol other powers, not onlY on account of its own subjects, b'hu on account of the subjecta of otirer states, Ilie called frthe assent of their lordsihips to the bill solely on the grounds of, Blritisht interests and British security, antiong which tite pre- 'servation of p race andI the mainitenance of goodl fatltit with other states were tie mxost important. But lItow was peace and good fautlt to be maintainedI if the Government did not possess tihe tneaus of putting down the macitinations carried Oil by ,alien s against foreign states ? 11l inisters hiad been accused of Vwishing to possess an arbitrary authority- ; but they had no dlesire to exercisle a power which couldJ riot fail to embarrass them. If they cosute their own feelings anid their own conveniience, they- would rather be without it; but .they couldI not, consistently with their duty-, deprive tihemselves of the pitwver of checking them machiniations anti .conspirra- cies which might be carried on by aliens in this coutntry. This; was all that was asked, and the power necessary for tilde purpose, he conceived, had by, the corstittitionllbefonged to the Crown in all times. but if it had not, it ought- The onlv solid objection whiich hiad ever been urged against tite measure wouldl be done Away by the p resent bill. Many aliens who had conie to thtis couritrry had svettled in busioess,or lived for so long a time in it thlat they deservedi in sonic measure to be treated as subjects. It was therefore in- tendedI that the bill should niot apply to any person who litad lived sieveni yearsi in the united kingdomn. Thuias, the onlY resoRable oh- wetion to wbich the bill was' liable no longer existed. The noble mOrd Concluded by moving that the bill be now read a second time. Earl GROSVENOR opposed the motion, on the ground that to inake aliens subject to any other laws than those which appliedi to natural-born subjects was unjust. 1le conicurred with tise Lord Miayor tinul Common Cotincil in thinking the bill highily, uiiconsti- tutioiial. Enormous as the power Kiven by the bill was, lte did not muchappehed tat t wuldbe busd;but however mildi it mnight lieexeciad,i oulrtnoto hgratedWlat he above all objected to, wasthemotveforintoduin th bVl.It couild not be doubted tha i wa bocrhcforar incoseuence of an undertndn betwen lla ajesy's initersandcertain foreig n Gover,M~.nments He hd onsom forer ocasons uppotedan alen biIll, becaus he conceived that th pec of Crp coud ot be consolidateds w-ititout soriie rucaueo th knd Ilis opinion had been Altered apprehended were dangers not to sovereigns, but their subjects. The conspiracies which were now formed were not conspiracies against legitimatc government, but against civil freedotn. Sceing tlhs, he could not support thie present bill In cotmpliance vith the policy of foreign powers, we had 18 months ago gone tire lengtlh of ad- vising the Spaniards to make a ehange in their constitution-an advice which, if it had been iollowsed, wotild have involved the versons at the head of the Spanishi Gorernment in irretrievable rtin and disgracc. Ile was agaittst the itterference of this Governminent with thiat of any other state, and for the same reason would resist the claims of foreign Powers to interfere with us. It hail indeed been said, in deeence of the measure, and as a means of disarming thc repugnance of their lerdships to itc enactmient, ihat the powets which it bad given to ministers had never been abused. But its very existenec was a general abuse. (Hear.) After soine further observa- tio.ts the noble earl concludetl by saying, that lie would oppose tile bill by everv means in his power. The Earl of DAI,N liE Y said, tbathe had on fortuer OCcasions suoported an alien bill as at var mneasure, but he liow gave it his de- tided reprobation. It was disgraceful to continne a nieasusre of tbis kind one day beyend a clear and well-proved necessity. WPhile i offeted no seciirity or protection to the coutitry, it alarmed fb.- seger h I lit be attract ed t our sjioros, a~nd_- ille -- gonedtain their injUriMUS fTreAtrent Of BritiSh subjecti , (JI,or Darnitnge) Could naime a folreignrr who hiad frienids and con-. .iie,on in Engla&nd, and who being invited to-come lo.pay them a visit, replied, "I shall niever see EBnglanid so long a,; Your alieni act exists." file (hord Dasrnley) rose, however, not go miuchi to oppose the bill bY {ogumnerirs wlichl had been often fruit- less arojinat. the influencc otfministers, buit to aisk of thjc noble lord olltositec, wliether a pledge would be igivcn that it wouldi not be re- riewcd&afrer the end c,f two years?' Ani answer in thle affirmative, chupfed with the ctreutustanca thiat'it did not apply to those who had rd6idedI 7 Y'ears in England, eouldl go far to lesseni his; thostility to it, thtiugh he couild see no reasons fhe its enactmnizt. rhere licenmel to I himi to be no darizer to the peace and tranquillity of Eucrope from- the most unrcstrictid' admisswion of foreigners 'into this country. ~uppmeamongtheir nuumbers there should exit personsdpod toete nto cosieracics, agasinst thle pe;lce ol tin' 'ttates they hlad lef't, coutld not mint"isters chlcc.k or suppress their attempts witihout artiI alieni bill Pe in SUCh extreiume rise, couldI not the Govraicnmnt 'ict, on its owni respoutsibility, anti trutst to Patliasmenit toy an iiriden,. nity ? 1Would it not bc better to ranke sutch in'.tances an c\Cceptiozt to the genecral law,tha~n to legislate for suich exceptions, andE on accoutit of'the possible arrival Ofra few turbulept inreigners to inctir the cha- i'aCler of Brilsmimms /iosiilibusrferui, by' subilecting. al furetipers in- dlitirimninatclvjioapptrelienaton, ineonveniece lim, YaXo100 Thic tnoble eatrl coim~NFled by stating tltat ite would ttJ hebil J5ord (:A UM l1Of'LP had opposed tile inbllot.hmroccr- siols : lie dlid nlot do so beeautsa 'mc was afraidI that its powers: woirid be vex;atiOuklv expreicisbed tbqaicli a ogrtn o their exercise at all. - o ecueh swn ron ceedin of th ~ -"as sensible that in, tkis coutntry every piro- anti.~, ,loverrinm:ret was so open to tuoblic amiii derit !- prerogative of the Crown- sgo controlled by p'ublic opinion, moiat tto niinister, howrever inclinedI to abuise his trusit, coulti do ift wititi iompun ity. The itndividluals to) witomi thle powers of the hill hiad beeni inttuctedl renderedl it imipossible Foir him to feel an'y 1appre1. hen5tioir fronti thiemi on lor'rier occasions wimet hie opprise4 it ; hut Ile thusnpoe it oecause therc did appear thecn to exist siuch a detgrce of 1isundersanding betwceen this coun try and foreigii states, that if! ani alien act was intrustcAl to uiinisters, we imighit emnbroil ourselves. with tile goverunment at' those states, if' we refuised to) exectire it in tlheir favouir by declining to remiove front Eitglantd atty individuals obnoxiouis to their displeasure. This objection -withi hitn (Lord Cal- thorpci would exist 8tili if thc ame' pirinciplevs presidedl its the direction of ouir policy. Bitt a gr(-mt citange bid ot late beenl pro. doiced itn this department-our foreign -secretar'v litad puriuedi Britishl obiects. Foreign powers htad bretn niade aware ot' thin alteration, and tlitrcfore Wer nIot likely to requiire Comopliances fro Ius6 whichi i We miighit he bou.nd to refuse, or thiat would Asltrh rite tartonorv which prevailedi between us and tictei. The ipowe:rs Of the biill imighit therefore be granted to GJovernment as an reans of enabling it to protect fronti disturbance the tranquillity of' allied states, by etchecing conspiracies againat thiiei in thiis, whiile those states having been niow made, acquainted with the difference between our policy andl theirs,. could not be supposed to prefer claims thiat mig,ht lead to any msndertaning sB allowing iiiniumiteri to yieldtl to foreizrn powers ott frietndly representations being made, Nve Nest con- s5ulted our own peaceand the rinsquillity of Europe. lIR therefore! oni the present oses3sion would vote for the bill, though lie wouldi not havedone so lmad our foreign policy not beeni changea 'The B Ti of CA-1RNARVON would trouble their lordships i,.ith only a few observations. He was curiiouis to knosv wh:t could beI the grouind of the chsinge in the noble lordl's (oilthorie's) opitilion.i Thie noble lordl seemed to begin. his approbation of the measure at the tithie whien miinisterg thentuelves Proposed to abandon it. Tue noble lord had sitated tiat nministers he'd now becomie mere liberal, anti that theoy allowedi no foreign power to interfere in otir domes. tie poiy; but when wasi a prete-ncee of this kind wanting--n wvhat Iormer iocea-sion,wlten the renewal of thealien billwa proposed,wr not tile mesatenmenty miade ? It hadl been saidi, that thepoe given to mnistdters by this bill wouild intduce foreign powers to aet better by thieir own sub4jects if so, the measure would nor only liav'e hlis (liordi Carniarvon'.0 support nowv, but always. 'Ehe nobl'e earl opposite (Liverpool) had stated, thiat principlcs of revolution were abroadl h ut if so. couild this bill cheek or eradicate them Could it he silpposed that the presenice of foreigners could give effect I to revolutionaLry principles in this country ? No these principles,I so far as thecy actuated the people of this country, wvere Britishi, andI had a B~ritishm origin. If thiere existed danger, thierefote. from this suc,an alien bill afforded nio security. Thiere was, ind(eed, a class of =tinca It politicians vwho went about fromn kingdom to kingdio, anti fromi city to city, oni the continent, plotting ag ,inst tte peace and tranquilility ofC states, mieeting in wha thy called a congress, and issuing nianifestoe, anud declarations subversive to humnan, rights or natiotial independence, against whioni he wouldI haye ntu objections that the poawers of the alien bill wvere! exercisedl. (Ak laugh.) Mii- nisters; hiad taken credlit for miitigating the present measure by ex- cepting froni its operation personis who had residled seveni years in England : bitt the claus4e was soi indefinite, thiat prr-sions who-jhad re.sided nearly all their lives here might still he subject to its opera- tion if they liad been absent onily a few clays befoire the pasising ot' the? bill. UWhy fix upon seven y'ears? Was an apprenticeship ne- cessaryv to goodl order and peaceable conS(luct, as to the trade of mnaking shoes, ,or engaging inany-lhandicraftf P Whyvnot give asettle- inent front tiiiartiage ? Wias a titan after 'lia to he lia!sle to be torn fromi his -wife and children whio wete British, subjects, andI niigist remain in EnglandI while he wais ordereri our, of it?' The nohIe earl, after sonici fuirthte, observations, Concluded by opposing the bill. The Earl of WVEST-MORLAND said lie would Sepport thle measure belore the house on thiree grounds-first, for the preserva- tion of tranquiillity at homne; second, on account of our relatioins with foreign countrirS; anti thlidly. to prevent those diitlirbawices itt other countries which ultimately, thoiugh notriunmediatcly-, nsight involve uis in war. He (Lord Weatmorland) could not conceive lioiw governments could be at peace while their subjects were at wvar-bow rite Lord Mayor of London could be a,t open hostility with the Grand Seignor, while GJovernment professed itself a frienud aid. -ally. Th'is bill was necessary to enable the country to be, what be trusted it alway-s weould be, a ielusge for all persons, whatever their opinionse might be, whbo werec drivett out of their own country anti so far front the bill being ittjutrious to foreigners, it was, in his opinion. their best pr 1cto. LrHOLLAN'D said, the noble eatl (Liverpool) liad begun his stgerclt by observitng, that this late hiad been sc oft'en uinder discussion, ttltl oli be said either for or against it that had nor been re- peatedly urged ; it was indeed irksome to travel over -ground soper. fectly beateni ; andi therefore he (Lordl Holland) shouldi not trouble th. ir lordships with the miany objections that in the cs'rse of 20I years hiail been uirged agzainst this bill. But wvhen he c~onsidered that thienoble earl who had jus%t s?tdown bad laid doi-n groutid- nrca anti at variance with the other grotmnils on bicds the bilil was'or.gi- nahlI introducCed, Ire did( thlink- timet it became huin to call the atrer I tion of the htouscs. and to mark tile entire v.1riance of' the L-rour,ld. fromi thos~e originally stated. That there wsta such differenice, the nobl eal(ierolius ceaare, and wouild doubtless acknow- ledge, as he had alludted to. the origin of' ite oleasure. It was, in- deed, not so old in ouir stature honk; it ran not beyond the meioi"oy of tuian ; it was its 179-2 that tile bill was brou'ght in, and tieii r lord- .shipys would ma,rk the preamble of it, and ohserve tliat even itt .tmu..c timtes oiflpassion, it was. stated th:at there existed an imperious 'te cessi':y it stated thiat, in conscruence oftrite great irerease of' aliens resorting liere. imuch dangrer might tirise to the tranquilhirsy of tllis country. Soon after thec bill was paSs~ed, war took place, and the bill was continuted. -He (Lord Holland) diid not rewarm to sav hat thiat it might be just to confitinu it duringc war. Hoiwever, then mune the peaee whicit w&s aizned by the noble lord oppos,ite anid the bill was then continued'on the grountds (judging ftotni the speectits cf.f the noble earl oPpposite) that it was tnecessary to possess the p-ower of excluding aliens, in order to possess a suirimary mode of preveitring titeir operatioris destrohing the tranquillity of this Country'. But hac had (better authorityvfor whathbe srtaed thtn any speech. There was: then a coinsidera-ble number of al:ens in this4 cosiltry, who we-re hostile to the Government of France, with which we w~ere then at peace; but we weere suspected by that0rovernment ofbeing favourable to theprinciplescofthoseperson. T'hweyare very active lhere, and published pamphlets, in which he belie'ved every Candid man would ackntowledge there were constained instigations to assassination and nmurder. M. Otto retnonriNrated upoti it. and the noble lord (Liver- pool) answered as beca me ti British Alinister.-" You mat' prosecitac them in ttile Cotirts of Law of this cou.ntry, or our Attrrmcy-Gereral will dlo it." Mluchi correspondenice took pitace, and atlastivl. Ottosairi, But You have an Alien Act, under which y-ou may proceed: ntore sumltmarily ;" and the mioment he gave a hint, of a foreign power going snatcks in an act of Parliame~nt, the noble kirul left hislitle ag,andinsanty muntdIiis wvr horse, and began: kickng, tipiolig ad crveling Ittth moat furiouls mannier pos-! sibl, an ye tir nobe erl (estrorlnd) talkedI of this bill as tre- cemsar fo th prceratin o pecewith foreign countries. Iele (Lor Holan) wuldrea fist he complaint of' M. Otto, endaftrwrdstheanwerof lt nolelord (Liverpoiol) :-" What- ever msay he the protection which ithe English laws afforti to native writers, and to othter subjects of his Mlajesty, rte French Governnient knows that foreigners do niot here enjoy the sainie pro- tection ; and that tire law, known by ithe title of tice alien act, gives th iityof his Britannic Mlajesty an atuthiority which 'it has cifte eerised a4ainst foreiges whos residence was preiuldicial to the interests ci Gireat Britain. 'rite first clause of this ac. states, expressly, that any ordier in co)uncil sehichi requires a foreignecr to quit the kingdomn shall be executedi, undler pain of impr snmiient aind trnportatiorn. There exi;st3, therefore, In the mi-inistry a legal andl suflicient powrer to restraiR' foreigners, witlhoit havingg recourse to courts of law' ; and the Frenchi Governtienti, whiichl offers, on this poiitit, a perfect reciprocity, tliiitiks it gives a inew proof of its lmcifi~c intentions, by denianding that those persons may' be sent away whose niachtin'ationis uniformily tend to sow discord between the two people." To this the noble lortl liat atnswered', thiat his Shajesty's Government never would, in consertuence of anly re- pres:entation or any menace front a foreign power, mnake any- coticession which coultl in tire smallest degree he dang~erous to tihe liberty of t-ile press as sectureilbby the constitutioi, soil so justly dear to every B3ritish subject. T-he noble lord went on to3 state-- NVithi respect, to the distinctioni which appmearetd to be dirawn in M~. Otto's iiote, between the publicatiotis of British subjects atdid tirose of foteigners. and the power myltich his Majesty is supposed to havein onsquece o th alen ct,of sending ~ foreigners ouE ofi his omiinins, t i imoriait o osere, that the lurovisions of thratI act ere ade or he ptrpoe ofpreenting the res,idence of fo-I reiner, wosenumersandpricijleslia- a tendency to disturb the ntenalpeae o hi ow itmni tions, d whotii the safety of: those dominions might require in miiany instances to be removed,c'ven if their actual conduct had exposed them to punishment by law. It does not follow that it would be a searrantable application of such a law toexertitspowersin the cases of individuals, siuch as those of whom complaint is now made, and Imarmrctilarl v as they are liable to be prosc. cute(t under the law of the !aiid in like manner as others hav. beeii in sinmilarcases, attle instance and upomi tile coinplaiiit of forcign govern- ments." The noble lord, the house wroilrd sbserve, spurtiedar theidea of naking the law subservient to the itu rpose of sending irne r out of the country at the represeitation ot a foreign itliniMtcr. 'he tex alien bill had such a ineagre atnd slender pireanmble, that notlimng scarcely could he gathered fromii it as to rite grounmis of enact iiient, and thenoble viscoutnt, then Secretary of S-sttc,was particculatlv cattious of giving any politieal grounds as a rcasoni for the bill: ii6 det lie disclaimed altv tling of that sort. The bill was tisen, as notv, for purposes purelv British, anid the miaking the bill an auxi- liary or "hand-maid" to toreign pohwers, was spoken of with be- corning reprobation. He (Lord Holland) wished that sentiment 'rere still felt, and heshould thien not despair of hiaving the satisfac- non of voting with those noble lords this night in a israjorimu against the bill. The noble earl (Westnroriand) bad stated st?ep objects of this bill, but he (I,ord Holland) could not follow hint in his distinctions; and one of the obiects he had forgottenj but It appeared to hibl that they all meirged in this- -f -1yinge iuet:te -most bqlelWy, most expex~ij~e,1~~J ODget a7 in v; ich this ectjastry ercr enggd ?f,i~~ ~ itdu Of' the d6e -~i n Iae by kIt "`sobleagt nolrdweee Lod ariy isle relhmsdui1 -en_r9 eSo accordinp to the noble Lord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 4 Cf,)i44tatsS4lI rela.. the3 Opac a nd 'amity till thee tq66ttrk of phs iar%6 ueq+ ofr thed ta-ar of the Frenrls ec~vohflutill The nflOh', 11Ti#Pir1andy had oh4 of the nioble lo6n 6ihs(l4- Yrepf the house, as being . . pntrisoaft'-to. that h':so~4olyar ta he still thong3 ienothefljoijh heend bdrjt4~n 0n4tl?- Occ Mnon to wthichi thic noble lohT"W'dIihied 'the, V.-ic, pr.o w I~ have bern imore periptanMt ~1;i surv tht *litYJ'wps~a~ pree. en.Butt, to retuTrn to thie nCie:fotdd pres.iFe0p h w I ar whnt -:a the longest pbidq mk * &.fD alld at itO time had to niany Brhtie- -tubjcts ensoloyed tmgoehres in taking par-t in forcign wars; yet-no aiim aet lstheriested...Vhat he hadl stated proved that thecalien ne act ir&rmji~rti cows irY, and that peace hiad been pisived 4i hUhi& cousatry wsithout any ttliit; act. 1,ooking abrcoad,' it wotuld be see thst.t .jIqlland, 8witzerland, enid tije Papal Govsernment, and tcl.h&Dei pient ol'the I initcd Sitates ot' Ameirica., hand beent the ttost.sucicesful in the pr!zervation of peace. B3y Llit bye, it hafi. ~bee-s. upposed thlat Ileti Mtine govertimeuta WotYgc brt qualified. to, wcWotre that blssingi and it was, Yather remarkable th'at the th,ree xpsos filegi. ttnhate gnvernntent.s hitt breti the most suecesul. lHoilland had, lie helje':ed, -majntstinctd peace for thec loagest p-eriod; she haud eti 'uved 701 yeer' of tranqutllity-from, the treaty of Utrcbht A0 the perio 01 he Aericani vat. Ay, but, sad thenobeer We ittoeland i),wlitatiro,ubleitnust they-have hat) in excluding aliens duringz lihii tecriod. Nosuchi matters-, tor Sit Win. 'Temple expressl]Y said thlat it hadi ever been the great princ-iple of the states to) make. their country the conntiono ref'uge of all the niivh-able of othier countriesi tl)otieh b -th ay, irn that ',ir Williami TenIiple was ittistaken theyha o)wasnaiane that tilicy, and lie would netict. the exceptiot diety Su itorians of FrAnce also noticedt thsstevers- pecrsondiradter ae their retreat into, Holland, and not any rep;c"entain f nbsaors of foreign powera could induce thenis to rer mtheed rse e-os awazy. This lie thiought proved, front the expei neo h c,tat an alieni act was not neces.. nari- for preserving peace, h exception) whichi he bad aldluded to inl tile Obse-vance of thi general principles of -hospitalitY to straiigers, s-as one thaLt sesmst ffliegracefitl to them, as it was made for the sake of curryting Fvour withl ChIatles II., at whose in- stutices they delivered tip two of the regicidles, Who wecre aictually execLted. 'This wna sthe onlygoce cever hadwho had eti. terd ntoa rag sntehitg ik th hlyAllitmCe. And who ever thought he could dierive anyr advantage fromi the extinction of liberty, and crushing thc stlates of Hollanid. Swilterland had, frotiti the earlie-st period of her political existence, been the retisge of all who w-ere obliged to quit their own country; and in respect to the 'Regicidus, they tformed a contrast with the Gov~ernment of Holland, for they- had reui;tsed to giv there uip; but whether by inclinationOrTby itecessit-~ f yla-t4ebeet. compelled to adept a les generous policy. T'he noble.earl (West.. tnorland) said, that this hill was only to prevent the mnachinsations of' disafeeeelperonsanddaner s ohercountries, and this, besaild, wasan biet prel Brtis, fr wichwe were to act as the police.. offier nd'spyof freiner. Te nole arlthoghtthere ought to b utetis~f revntin suh inurius ondut. nlte part of indiviuals a wouldbe likly to endtgrtenainlpae andth sovereign a. peace. Butho did this apply here ? It would be no answer to a f-oreign initoru say that we liad enforced t~hii llaw again,t those who owdu o allegianuce.and yet dlid notdo itagainet ttite native. The ttoble lo rd mURtbe prepare4, -or the sake of peace. to enforce the law6 of 0oerion against the native also. For-sup.. pose the gentleman withl the hard name to kec discovered corTes- poniding with one who states that so many mien and so ntuch i-oney w,ould be hiere at suchi a time and for suich anti suich purpses. Wtitbouteonimunication with anY foreign rnulister the man is sent Out 01fthe country. Then comes the gentleman with the easy name. andi dloes the same thing ; the French ambassador discovera it, goes to .Mr. CanniALg, and he refers hiun to thle Attorney-General, iaho, perhapst, ref~rs hiin to the noble atid learned lord in the woolsack, and perhaps from hint he gets soniething decirive (he was ordY Star- ing thie ease hypothetically); lhowever-, hints are thrown out to himi of the inItractable nature of juriezs, and the danger of exposures. The ambassador to this might say, "1 I hav'e nsothing to do with vane law; but this I ha-re to do With, -that the other day ai man did the same thiing, and %y6u senlt huin olu of the country, ini justice, I suppose, to mie; Carl do not snyppose y'ou would dio it except as an act ofjustice ; anti yet here is .a osan who hias done the same thing to whsons you will do nothing," Wh lat would the noble lord (Liverpool) say to this ? Would lie say, as, he did to hI. Otto, that We pass,ed the law for the preservationL of our own i-nternal traniquillity ~' or as the noble earl (WVe!*t. m-orland) said, we passed it fo r preserving national peacce., tid becauze~ we find wce have no law to prevent people dietstni tat which is a just cause of wvar to other counitries?P H5Lvlng proved tlhat this law was not necessarr for the presrvation Of -peace, he would now endeavour to show that it Ieas more likely to proV43ke hostilities;, but before he did that, he could not but not'ice thle singur- lar opinion of' the noble earl (WVestmoreland)-tba the bill was for the security of foreigners. It really seemned to him (Lortd liollutnd) that he had borrowedt a !..af out of the book of the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, who opposed the bill isfought in by his noble friend (tbthi Macquis of Latsadown) for the, sake ofth ie dissenters. (,I laugzh.) To 3how that this bill was likely to be a cause of' war instead of preser-vingpeaee, he would supp)os'e thait the Count de Lisle (for nobvions reasons he would namne no cv.. tugeeof te prsentday) were in thtis country ; it was clear that while thi bil xised,ifhe came, he came with our permissioit, arid it rit ReentDiteofOrleans hiad said when we inserted rather harsly e tougt)an his sending t-he 'Pretender away, "It is MOs he is here, but 1 otI 'tacknowledge him for King Of England,' or make a court for hitni." YTet the snerc faLct tsf the Prctendpr be- tng at Parts, and going about to spectacles, &c., gave us sL right to. complatin, it was because it would the prevent theminigiytersof th.iat country laying themselves open to such applicationa of foreigcn uni- nsister-4. and bec-ause this was a mteasur-e wihichs, if tarried into com- plete effect, wouldl make the world one vast prison, that hist!hJought it tinwise and dangerous to pass it, anid because, alsot, it was more likely, ins ' teadi of prod ucing peace, to enibroil thirt countr s- with foreig9n powers. He hald proved dhat the groutids of the mseatsure nlow were directly con tradhictors- to thiose laid do-wn when the- measure -was originated, and 'he thought lie had prove-d also. that it was futile as a means or preserving peace, but ratther, on the cortrary-, lik-ely to raise questions with foreign Ministers. He would not he so disingenuous as to say that he expected the bil'l would be titrowis out that night, but he trusted that it was the last titnse iti would he reneWed, and tEhat we shouild be permitted to go back its thie good old t-imes of British hsospitalits-. whilt", in the language of one who was a poet, poliucLan, an4J orRtor, this country was, ens.. ructcrised as -- ~____- by Heaven designed "To bec he consinTon refuge of mankind." The Earl. of' LIVERPOOL, said lie had wished the noble lordI to* have read the whiole of his answer to the dem!%nd of the French Government, to send the whole of the emuigrants out of tl-it coon.. ir'v. on the ground of our appicaEtion to have the Pretender re- utioved from Prance, and partly also on the ground that thiey were carryinig ott heresimachinationsz against the F'rench Goveri.. inent. Hie would read that answer. "1 It is important that tile differences between these two cases should be stated. When James ii. abdicatted the throne, ~ and le-ft this country, he re- tired ivithi his adherents to France; and thouch, in the war which ininiediately stucceeded that event, the French Govern.. mcnt adope h is cauise as their own, no stipulation was made at the treaty of Ryas wick, that he should be sent fronli that country, nor was any subsequent demnand ever made to die Frenchi GovernmDent to this efFect ; but he was sufrered to remain at St. Gerenain, in the. neighboturhood of Paris, surrounded by his family and friends, till thl tiittue of his deaths. It a-as not till after hi - demise, when Louis XIV., in direct violation of the treats- of Ryabwick, had acknow.. hedged hisson as Ritig of Great Britaini, that a different course o1' proceedinig was adopted by the Britisth Government: and in the treaty, of peace signed at Utrecht, which put an end to the witr which hatl been carried on on account of the Spanish successiot n, a ri. etc was inserted to pres-ent the Pretender frovm residling in anprt. a- of the French doassinions. Th'e dettiand which was subsequenth-f, made for the removal of the Pretender front a town which wa4 Situa. ateti in the centre of these domninions, was founded on ddt agic tie of thec treaty, whiich was, in fact, one of the conditions of the petce but both'the article in the treaty anid the densiand were coufitted tc, the Pretender personally, and 'were not extended to atny, of his fe,. inily. or to any of his adjherenlts. After his removal, rDny, of )~., adherent-, con tinuctd to reside in France; many persons resl4e.-,t i. this counitry, who were stteaied to the cause of the PrCte,' and had promoted thte rebellion in his falvour, and Whlo Wei*'osqet Ily attainted hor Ihigh treason, sought refuge in FrarCs anti wen per- mirtted to remain titere till their death, without es> aplication ever has-itg been nmatde y the British GovernMsent ~rhl cessl Tht-ap Duke of Berwick, te natural son of Jams' II1., who, from-his prin- ciples and talents, was the nisost dangev-o05 nla to etse interets of' this country anid the Protestant suer-, on continued to be a gecral in tIme French arumirs, and thcuw,' descended from the King. ass Eng.. lishtman,and an nmgai~vsiot requited thiat he s%hould beseneiout of'Franice. TO te seconti conmplaint, which relates io the ihsirps otl f ArrasanrdSt. Pol deLeon,andothc;s his Majestycan onl,, reply.that i'tit thefct alleged against'tiemn can be substantiated . ff it can be proved thiat they have distributed papers on the coa-st of' France, itli a viewy of disturbing the govemnment, and of inducing the peo-. PIC to resist the new church establishment, his illajesty would think hsinuself justified in taking all mDeasures within his pitwier for oblig- ing themi to leavye the ctiuntry: but somep roof must be addtsteed Of thiose facts: and suchi proor mnust not be tha of thieir having, in a singcle intist nce, vir.. in reply to this Pope's mandlate, pubilished a vindication of their own coniduct, in refusing to cortfonsa to the new establslshmentit- proceeding in which thev would be justifiable ott every principle of toleration and justice; but hitshould shiow that they hiave %ince availed thtemselves of their situation in thi-s country, to excite thie people of France agrainrit the authority of tha~t Gov-ermient, wbeother cisil or ecclesiastical." This tde-. patchi, thereo, distinctly statedi, that if thie emnigrants; were gttihtv of ex1citeing the people of' France against their Goveris.. nient, the King w-as not only, justified, but that be would take measures for expelling thienmfrom-the onty The noble lord1 the dtetails of thc noble baron' s seech. Ile would inerch say, that the advantages -which the bill gave were nunmerous ; thoee who thought those actlanteges too dearly pur. hased would of course vote against the nieasure, those who thought otherwise would sup- port itL In conclusion lie would say, (as we understoad the nob earl) that hie concurred in what had been remnarked upon the bill in the obier house-that upon its cxFiration we shiouldbave soute legis- lative enacticrnt on the suhject, and that that enactuiet slhouldl bc permianent. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that h' could not allow the oil) to pass its preseint stagc without giving to their lordships his reasons for thiimtking that thec meabu;c ought to be continued for a. tinte longer. The tioblc lhrd tloer proceeded to argue in support of the measure, but in a tone so itidisLitict that we could catcb ouly an occasional sentregN. As well as we could connect the few ob. servations which we did hear, we understooed Ihis lordshivs to contrast tile present mneasure with that whicli had been enacted in the year 1793, and reneawed at iffrecnt intervals since that timre. The bi;l it 1793 cotitaitied rnaiy severe enactnsents iesl)ectitg the admission :f foreigners into tlis countrv, and for their regula(iois whilst thty coatinued to reside in it. The ersctcmen.s of the bill it that period were the more steict, in proportion as the danger lrons existitg drcumpctances appeared great ; but at the pre- stnt day the seventy of those enactmentts was altogithet abatea, tbeuse the gamie causes did not csli for its continuance. Tne two measureas tJat of M7B, and that of the present day-were whoUy -diareint, because they applied altogether to different tirmes and circuenstances. iNow it did not follow that because the circunistanceTs of the p asent day did not caU for the' triet measure of the year 1793, tney were such' as to require no enactrments whatever on the subject aliens. le 'bad ro doubt that some legralative enactment wascalled ror. and he thought the one then before their lorIships was wise arid s;uutary, taking into consideration the diffterence ot circumstances which caled it, forth. The nioble and learned lord then proceeded to contend, that the Crown poisessed the prerogative of ordering aliens out of the country, when their residence here might be attended with danger, and t'h;tt there wras nothing uncon- stitutional in its exercise in such cases. If the Crown ought not to have such a power, why then let it be taken away; rbt if it were adnitted that the Crown onght to possess it, w- vas the duty of Parliament to assist in rendering it effectual. Suppose an English young lady were to be married to a foreigner rcsl ing in this country, and that it became necessary to order that foreigner out of the country, he might, if sonme such measure as this bill did not pass, refuse. What then ? kle would be liable to indictment for a niisdeineanour; and what then would be the situa- ton of the English young lady ? She might, instead of enjoying the Society of her friends, be spending her days with her husband in the dungeons of the Fleet or the King's Bench prison. This would be prevented if the bill before their lordships was to pass. The noble lord, in conclusion, again adverted to the various modifications which this bill had at intervaLs received, in propordion as the cir- cumstances of the several periods of its enactment became altered and repeated that it did not follow that becauime the danger of' the year 1793 did not now exist, there was therefore no necessity for any alien bill at aIl. After a few words in explanation fronm Earl GROSVEN-OR, which were not heard below the bar, their lorilships divided, when there appeare4_1 Content-Present, 46-Proxies. 34 . . 80 Not content-Present, 17-Proxies, 18 . 35 A lajority for the second readi'g . . . -45 The bill was then read a second time, ant ordered to be com- mitted-Adjoumed. PARJIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORD. TITFSDAs lrMA 11