House Of Commons, Monday,...
The Times, 1824-03-02T00:00:00

The StPEXSiEtR nforl-led tihe.t as, tilat lie ta(t iniserted in the fazelfce. al notice with re-pact to the paying off of the Four per Cents. W OOLLY E\ M.A.1U"FACTURB. S-ir J. ATI',EY presenzod a petitzon from ViitsWirv, praying the repeal of the duti'rs on foreign wool. .Ur. CuiR L'N prcsenred a petition from the shepherds of Carn- berlarnd, praying relief troni the tax upon their dogs. C(O.L DUTY. Sir 'fILTAM pt u presented a petition fro.m Saffolk; hr.(ClAVLF:V, a perition frbm Devonshire; 1r. F LEaIIOit4 ptitiOii tifronmi l nt': pravitDg ihe repeal of the duty onr coaLis s `ir .,lAS-TL E presCeit',!a petiton fromn, Robert Gopriaxy-.mtc 40 iab,urtiur *w -netc of i euotty of'f iiks, oinpiliigtthat thiey s-ie c.plpiletd by por.erty to pefrferu dutiesf fr wvhiel liatute never nnt Elled tieni-sueh as spreading mnanture, and breakirigstor.esiuporn roads-and that iliey were much woizse oTf ;han the negraes en,pdoy. ed in the coloiu'es. EXCISE LICENCEi3. Sir W* . I xGILSY presented three peiilions from Lincolnshire; :Mr. FLEnISt..; two p-titiro. froni SonudianrnptoAnd tiasport; 'dMr. STr'AitT \oaitLEy, two peditions fromr2 York a0d.SlkiPnon; Mlr. SyaK:s. a pettiion frotin (Elill alt1 Mr. Aldeeman WooD, i7peta. tdon froi thliC par of Bishopgatc; praying tAie repeal of the duty upOn exciselicences. uni,(CRO LAVERY. Mr. GiROSSETT, Sir MWar. RaWLcEY,and Mr. TREmAwyx, pit. enteed pe ntions against the continuauice of negro-slavery. )RACTICE IN CHANCERY. 1,rDyi.J. RUSSE ,L prasented a petitioa from ertain suitorrt tle (Oourt of Chancery, resideat irt Devonshire. Thepetidoners :oinplaEned, t.at in ai ratter vhich involved 20,0001. of their pto- perty. thev hatl been going on, without obtaining one shilling, (roin. the year Ip;'lt to tie -,resene time. They understood tuhis ruinols. v to srisc ou t of tbte practi ce of the. Court, ant Frayed for an-in- ~uiry into the state oftbat,racticegeneraUlr. Mr. BANKIES presented a petition for the annual graut; stnd inuoved for the 2annual papers. Sir W. I NGI l,B Y presented a petition from innkeeper of Lin. colnsliire, praying a repezl of the 26th of tie late King, forthe regu hatiou of public.lhouses. Sir '. GUISE presented a petition fromu Gieltenhar,- for the repeal of the duty on houses. .Mr. INS. mllfAMSnoved for papers connected vith the irn. ports and expotts of the country, from the year 1812 to the preseat inme. Mr. *WARRE presented a petition from tie parishiof Marylebone, wraving that thc inferior classes of animals muight be protected by law' from ill treatment. Sir J. 'NEWI'PORT complained that certain papers, ordered 21 lavs sinte, bad not yet been laid upon tie table. As he intended .o hring forward a motion relating to the frst fruits of Irland, he riored that returns should be laid upen the table of the suims re- -eivect in Ireland for first fruits of bishoprics and archbishops with'i the last seven years; and thesaraie accounts as to tirst fraits received luring the same time in England. hoard AUrLI'-ORP presestied two petidons against-the leather tax, vre believe), front Northamiptonshire. Mr. CALCRAIT trasted that this subject would vet come under lhe favourable considerat ioIn of the Chancellor of the Excheiee. Ina lhat honel he should defer his motion upon it until after Easter. M:r. XkN NEDY brought in his bill to regulate the niode of sum. atoning juries in Scotland. BREACH OF PRIVlLEGE. M1r. A BERCROMI BY rose in his pl3ce to complair ofa Sn'sst zross and unwarrantable attack upon freedonm of debate in theliouse Conirnions. A sense of what he owed to lidmself, to the house, And to the profession of which he wvas a iTember, imposed ullpn h-im hbe duty ot coulplaining of this attack foro the seatof public jotice, mad by the Lord High Chiancellor of England. When he shoill iave detailed to tle hotise the means by which he had been rfoinrmed af the statement made by tie Lord C.tincellor- -whetL helthould have spetned the evidence by which lie proposed to satisfy hon. members that thc words attribtired to Lord Eldonhadsctually:been spoken by Iiim-wheit he should havestated tothe housewhat the Lord High Chancellor had sail, and what it was that he bimself (0*r. Aber. rromby) had said then he house would be in a conditton to follow the conclusions Av?ich he meant to dcravfrom the tenour ofthe case; and he should therefore proceed to a detail of the cirornstanees, en. treatirg the house only to favour himn lwith its atteRtio47, because he was stie the question was no less interesting to him, as it af.&ctel his character, than to the house, as affedting its privileges and it. f(ree-dom of discussion. (Hear, hear.) " On Saturday morning, then" (proceeded MIr. Abercromby), [happened to bc in the Court of Exchequrer, when a person with whom I had no intimate ac- quaintan ce, but of wose accuracy, character, and honour, I had no ground to entertain the smallest doubt, addressed me to this efect :-He came to me and said, ' Ur. Abercrombv, I have titst heard a reply from the Lord Chancellor to what you'- said dpbn :tlr. Williams's ttodon.' 1 then asked himIt what it was that th&Lord Chancellor had said; to which he answered, 'IThe Lord -Cbapcel- lor has imputed to you, that you have sent forth-an utter filsehood to the public.' 1lhen asked him if be was sure he labourei un ier no msatake. He answered, ' Certainly nIot; because the Chanwehlor referre-tA " Gentlemen with gowns 'on their backs.' ", Oa recei- jug this in.ormation, I went (as every gentlear whbom I atrtad. dressing would have done> to Liacoln's-inu, to ascertain- the tutEh of it. I addressed myself. to the first counsel wih i .saw, and from him I got very little upon the subject; 'IDUt' it so happened -that a short-band wiiter who is employed. to attenid in the Court of Chancery, and who -reports the proceedin? of that C'ourt, with a view to their being communicated to the public, vo- lunt.arily addres6ed kimself to me, and said-' Have you 'seen, N r. Abercroniby, what the Lord Chlaneellnr has said this -morningr I stop bere; but my impression is, that he added lo? you.' I asked the shott-.lntd. writer to tfivoae me, upon this.: vith 3 copy ef the notes that he had male. Ie put his nofe into mybhanid; it-vwas writterd out in tull from his short-hand notes- and I-found tf-s words "utter falsehood," underlined, with a Iarge line. I then asked him for a copy of his note.. This he declined. I iskedt him if - he had any objectioit. tlhat I should show whait hb hsd written out to anothier short-hand writer- whomn I sav' in thit court. To this he assented; and I shoaeA itWto-theteecohd short-hlnd writer, who. objected to bneword, saying thafe for- the rest it -*an -perfecdy correct."' Tbis (rba 'honotoirable airdle.irncd renle~msa eozitmnueO) was-hes proot of timchvac af Wttlat thse getn tieran in the t;wurta f Exchequer had sjd tliif X haf sabe- oquently-seenr ea-leman of theasa-tne lr6Esolrdth himself, and of whotn he,ouudtrS.ly say he did not knb<:ivsdu,i td'4eoi fnieihrity aid honiour lie could morc encirWelPUtdyibsiW dencbef that gertvleran had .beea preseht at the titM ie6;6t#> (alf XD*_ cr t'sby) had told[ him what r had re39if`b h as d had been. this- I cu urti,tt vouch for 1u, s ' Ea sure that what' you state is sulisistiail5'truo; tbnmrhinly-tdobt I entertain- is, whetimpe the ChancevllOr s42&-o an:tt,;rfilsesdqo>' or -" nnother faisehocmd.'?: Betwfeetvdrese tw;o exVresstAti there'iss little, *s thcltouse would see,tocho5&i- fitt tlre 'words -aitho cr falsehood" contained risther the gross.er iO.ptitattibt- -AEfter' r-iin. terval-of Eeveral hours, -he ssw:-the 'san elgothzfen s:agath' m itc Court of Exchequer, and Qaddressiat'hnfr-.mlf 3' id tfi*rna3nr, he-put a1 scriec ofoieesions: io hihff, *wheeb r5ogetnei.will?the aoswerasthiat -he-received, w'ere as-ueatrly;Artpos.sible in flTh'fol_ lowink tes m.--"'Aro surertha iw'the obsersatiolis ro?de oy.the LoDrd (hBhenelloe it1J tbhiclfyou Msppelied h'n tb iliide ib-mnej tbatE:is ldrdshi1ts'Isd th0-terfliCt r'yb1khboJtX$r;' "L f ' any doubt as to the individual to whomn his lotdship intended to ap- ply tbat expzression ?"_" It vwas Clearly and exclusively to you that hle intended to apply it-..he could hay)e appleed it to ao one cat~ wIlj rtaou 6o cc- I.ceA that it must have been Y,ou, was thn,tth,? excePting Mr. Wtiairns and Mr. Broughain, thiere sie nIO Other gentlermen who wear gowns, who were conicerned cn that side of the q~uestiosn; anda it is evident tha"t nitither ft e -ibllowed the samie line of O~bservations Lwi th that adverted to by the liord Chancellor; soad it is equally clear, that those observationis .lid agree withth'e opinions which you expet,sj" "Was that the impression upon the understanding of other persons who heard, the rtemari<s of the L,ord Cbancellor "" It wasq the opinion of those- with whons I spoke, that it mnust have been yout to whoxm the i,on chanteiior appiedathos cremarks.," On these testimnonies 'was his own opunon formned', and on the same evidence the houise roust form its conclusion. He knew not how Lord Eldon was enti- tled to arnimadvert fTrom the seat of j'ustice ttpon the conduct of the !neosbers of that house, but he felt'it to be dhue to himself not to 3- it pass over vwithout calling for the serious attention of the 1w"is t~ the subject. In the course oDf that evening, he hadl ofhiD ,without communicating with any other person, come tt5 the oPinion that he could not stiffer it to pass without observaitio. ethnto care to stzate to a gentleman of the profiesa' on?. YO.o held a seat in the bousze, and wh~om he knew to be inx th _Aut-may of liordl Eldor, that it was his intention, to bring the wb~,'e subject before the tioups',. .Lutt he was solely and exclusivel--g'n-rereod by the senseof mine sti wliichsaabeendoneto irm,antll&eduty whi h he owed totly' Hefiureherreq~uested that thejJoedChaucellor', mindrniil h`-.Ouse' -to acalm deliberation u 'on the expesos hc i 4invited nnd unless he were to t" his xresosuion bfsr wh1onx~,e had used; lhe wished it to be ur~sto that it was hiLs bn otly tnorning, to the house, wh:. he mentioned in orde l gienr to' cotlmpain to woTnbe a~ peaking, or aniy othey,lr cc \1 o ginetha etlbeman Iluested, an o,pportuntty to attend ; and 'is ote f gtb c hie might ~ ~ of the Lo&rd Chancellor, d' hnl he sot Fnd hee his Lor',sbip fully end faithfulfly,, all that 1 ial' It taet ssOunls`,y. ~shse a no doubt of Xit inforrr e (Mr. Abercromnbv) fulle communicated to the Z.oble lord. ato hiavitng been faith- cei.arly as he could, the h , 5 whch 'He had now stated, as twith precision, the very expressior, 'a ac taken of ascertaining, used. ltwas material tt~~obscrve- 4 which the liord Chancellor prehension ofothees 1k's the stat- dbS.t meaning was given in the ap. suite hat thse ~lPrV55i0, ,0,* ofb1hIs lrdship. He wul nw read the reportof them, -s t'ere-antd for that purpose he woutld ne-spapers...v ich in -o s'Key were coniveyed to the publIic by the corroborated by, the pr$iht of" fact vvaq acwurate, andt was further presented that th- .&hrbft.hand writer's notes :-_" As it hadl been re- certain rnotiot- ~'.Ktrson wrho sits hiere, did mischiief byl hearing 'woe-s motior .d 'wthou t the nignature of couinsel-that is to -ay, (Chancello'- A4 have been made to discharge ani order of tile Vice- brouwht -, nethe Mlaster of the Rolls, that such motions hiave been ,that Ith on Writhout the 3igniatu re of counsellI have only to state, beer, 'ritv. be-en in this Court since L778, whienever P. motion had zmll 11i5#,e before the Master of the Rolls, whicl hie had refused to C,ror which he did allow.-and iupon ani appliration to the *,4~ Xeellor to vary what the Alaster of the Rolls had doae, c.'to dlestroy it altogether ; so again, whenever ra motion had a.' n made before the Vice-Chancellor, and counsel hadi been .z)f opinion that the motion had been improperly granted or dis- ,chargad, the party bhA always in all those eases been at liberty to isove again. wfth'a view to set the matter right ; and if the signs. tusTe of counsel were Tiecessary to alter the practice of the couirt as it bad Obtained-since the periodI I have mentioned, all I can say is, 'that I have not a right to tax the King's subjects in that way. WVith respect to appeals and re-hearings, it 'i3 supposed that I htave heardi them oni iew evidence, and therebyvbrought discredit on somne part of' the court. It is an utter falsehood." ife wouild take the opportunity of saving that there was nothing in the business before Lord Eldon which couldbharecalled for these animadvergions; they must have been altogether premeditated. H-e went on with the statement. Oni rehlearings, it is always competent to read the evidence riven in the cause, though itwasnot readin the court below, either by the judlge or- the counsel . further than that the court dloes not go. On appeals, it only reads what has been read in tire court belo'w, and that practice I have never departed from in any one instance. Therefore, really, he- fore thines are so represented, particuslarly bygentlemen with gowns noon their backs, tthey should at least takeecare to beaccurate for it is their business to be so." Upon, which a MNr. A. observed to hsis lord. lship--."Upon motions- it would beimpris.sible for counsel to certify."To that the Lord Chancellor replied-" Stich motions as I have referred to l'ave becen made for half a century, aind never with the signature of counsel, and Yet the puiblic ace tola that the signature of counsel is neccess-ary by act of Parliament, and that I liavc dispensed with it." lie postproned the details as to the expressions which the Lord 4hane lo = teo him as the grounds of bis animadversions, put theehouu e n possession, of what he had actually' said. Those who now listened to hiim would observe that there was no0 mention by Lord Eldon either of the house or of the individual by name. 'But if L-ord Eldon wets here, he could not saLy preserving any regard to his own character, that the place to whiirh lie referred was not the House of Commons. (H-ear.) Lord Eldon, if he werehnere, could not deny, with regard to his own character, that the indlividual to wrhom his`anlimadrersions pointed was him. (Hecar.) For, only, let the hol4se observe what would be the. ituation of Lord Eldon, if any friend of hiis should be now driven to the adoption of the low, meant, pettifogging excuse, that it was not the Hlouse of Cornmong, and hr (Mr. Abercrorrby) was niot the individual then in his lord. ship's vicw. (Cheers) 'Who was it thlat uttered these expressions? The Lord Chancellor of England. Frotu what place did he utter them ? From the scat of'jrtstice. May it to be tolerated that inch.- Nidnal-s should be accused from the seam. of justice of uttering false. hoods ? And sRecondly, he would ask, if there was any man in that house who would rise and say that it wasq not the house-that he was not the individua--alunded. to by the Lord Chan- cellor ? He was confident no peson present would mnake that defence for Lori Eldon, He would assume that he was right in the application of his Lord~ip's rensaks to hiimself and the houise. It was imputed to hii that he pultbfrth utter falsehoods. lie would put it either way. If the accusation were true, he mig-ht have basely and tamely e.cqtieced in the representation whbich the Lord Chan- cellor m'm4e of him-the Speaker could not too soon cause the doors Of the house to be s%hut against him-he couild not too soon be strip- ped of that profcaional gown which the Lord Chancellor seem.- eni to think he disgracld.and he could trot too soon be deprived of' the rank anid consideration of a gentleman which he at present held in life. If, o1n the contrary, ejie sugges- tions attributed to, and the charges urged against fiim, were false --if the expressions were such as he ha never articulated-and if all this must be endured without redress, (and to what place could he look for redres buzt to this house ?), let the house consider what lust be the situation of any gentleman who should happen to be a remetncr of.the profession Of the law, sand who also held a seat in the bor.se. ( Cheer.) There was nothing in the whole trattsaction 'e'aich he felt to be so mortifying, so humilintting, or so degrading, asthr, he should, by th act of another party, be put to tnec necLessity of assuring the house, that in all that he stated, he would take care not to pervert or alter the fair and dlirect meaning of that which he had said on the evening in qu~in hen the motion of his hon. and learned friend was discussed. -No indlividual, indeed, could possibly hiave been tnore caiutious in thle choice of his expresions on that as on all other occa- s.:ons of his a;ddressinz the house; and he couldi now sttate with truth and accurac-y, the substance of what he had then said. Under one head of his argument, respecting the Court of Chancery', he had reasoned thus r_Oneof the most importanit subjects of inquiry for the commissioners whom it was the intentioni of Governrment to ap- point, would be that of ascertaining what were the effects produced unDon the bus-iness of the Couirt of ChiancerT' by the creation of the Vice-Chancellor's Curt He stawedthei rusttopinion which he ha- aliwty-s enremtined it was the firt opinion in order, in that series of his argument, and-therefore the 'better calcuilated to show the tend3ency of all the rest which he put forth upon the usefulness of that inq'.tiry. lie took occastion to alludte to the two casest ocf lv,akruptcy antI lunacy. He sitated, that in some instances, it had been known that applic-ation was made to the Vice. ,Chancellor for an order in a bankrupt petition, and, upon :hcing refused, immediate application was made to tire TLrd 'Chancellor; so that, in his view of the subject, it wovl4 be mazterial for the commrissioners to remark in how many instanqces, occturing between the years 1813 and 1819, therouirt had allowed such motion for orders to be appeled from without the signature of counsel. Hle further stated, that in the year 1819 a great and v-aluable altera. tion had been introduced by which the signature of counsel wzas declared tu be requisite. fle stated the particular cae whichi lad led to the order, and in which, the si nature of counsel not being appended, Lord Eldon had o errd that the motion should be siigned bir counsel,. which Customn at present con- tinued. Hie had t~kten o-ccaion to) remark, that one great -objection to the Vice-Chancellor's Court was the inrcrase of appeals, and the multiplication of business; andl therefore, one ,obiect, aLnd the main one of the act which created that Court, had faNld,I by neglecting to excluxde appeals fromn it. He had stated, that in appeals upon decree, or upon miotions for further directions, the practice had alwavys required that the petition s5hould be sizned by coDunsel, whic aesoeecrity to the suitors agis per ver-se litigation;bthtupnmioster was no such iarcuri- ries, andi thatoeae totedsvnae of suitors gene. zally ; b'ecaus thbiituariswudh li'kely to g imrmediately to LrEdo.ht tey not ony did go to rite Loard Chancellor,btte went with tihe best opportunity which couild be furnihe thmoviolain the sacred principle of appeal, writh Perhaps tewrt eience in their possession : for by discus.. saion before the Vice-Chancellor, they learnt the defect and weakness of their case, and that defect and weakness they readily supplied before the Lord Chancellor. The consequence haid beesn, was, and miust he, that a ease was commonly earned before the Lord Chan. callor, differing essentially from that upon which the Vice-Chancej.. lor pronounced ; and the further corzsequence must be,that this riuse of the right of appeal, leading to a difference of conclusiion upon the nime cases by the two judges, mnust prove derogatory to the dig-nity of the couirt. Such, to the best of his recollection, was in effect the substance of his observations; and such, he declared it to have bgeen his intention to ofFer to the house at the time. (H ear.) What said the liord Chancellor on this subject? The Lord Ci .or said that a considerable number oif motions h. en re- ceived btfore the Court of Chancery on ape . :.ch had been decided upon before by the Master of the Ro,s without the sinture of counsel, So he (Mr. Abercrorahy) had said : he had the sanction of the Lord Chanceellor to confirm the ac- cmrasev,of it. He bad contrasted that want of security with the cau- tion observed in those cases where the signature of counsel was re. quirecl, and he was not rightly comprehbended. The Lord Chancellor referred to the practice whiceh prevailed before the Vice-Chancery Q,urt but were the causes brought from before the Master of the Rolls the same as those brought from before the Vice-Chancellor? Would the Attorney-General say that it was any part of the duty of the Master of the Rolls to hear special motions ? He was sure of the answer which the right honourable and learned gentleman would give. He would then ask, " Does not the Vice-Chan- cellor hear the geater part of tire special motions ?" The right bonourable and earned gentlemran must answer that the V ce- Chancellordidheartbe Rreaterpart of them. Then he roald ask what resemblauce was there between the cases of the Vice-Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls ? And then what fairness could there be in taking up the sense of what he had advanced in this perverted order? The distinction was material for the house to observe, because the necesity for the check was not so great in a case where there were no special motions heard as in maotions brought from be. fore the Vice-Chancellor, whose time was chiefly occupied with special motisn8. That was the effect of his atgument upon this par- ticular iart of .the subject then in questiol. And as to the bring- ingcfresh enidence on mnotions brought fromntheViceChancellor's Ctiourt, It ws a fact which no one wond deny. blotions were fuently mat8de to the Vice-Chancellor on one stare of facts, whtch were upon another ttate of facts renewed before the I,ord (hsatellor. Had he the as.sent of hia honourable and leared friend to that ? (the Solicitor spoke from his seat.) Then he wa righti and npon these propositions he had gone On to coricend, that allowing s'part to renew a motion vWhich had been re- fused upon a different-state of facts, leading as it must to diffEeent Utntences frorm the judges, that colision of opinion between them could no, but tend to lower the dignity of those courts altogether. These werc al thefats to rhich itwasbeceassey for hii. to call the attention of the hoe Lod Eldor said that he was rigbt in alleging 1tin motions had kM n?ade befor without the inature of qDw)xd, ud S tbo o id t1 s ront hc lputed deli te 1idiereflt part.o' the bulillng. 4A,A besjdec, the tewmsrry imen. renience -was i-minor consideration. The SOLICITOR-GENERAIL epOPed delay. Mr. BARING was (as we understood biri)infaourof alteritioe- Ie hoped, at all events, tha't a better system would befollowed in hie erection of the new post-offlice The CHANCELL[OR of tlie EX-HEQUER said th'at in the first instance, premiums had been oflimd for plans for tbe new post.. 2ffice. That course had brought manyplans. of bautiful buildings, but none at al fit for the object requlred. The post offlce architect hadtienframedaplan; -andthat, thoughconvenientl4 disttibiatte, had-iotbeen devised in the best possible tate. At last Mr. Smirl,e had been employed, and he had furnished a plan likely' to answer in aU respects, Mir. WlLLlAM5Swithdrew his opposition to tae grant; but hoped. that some alteration would sdil be made in the buldgs. The vote,was then agreed to. MRITISH9 MUSEUM. ?40,000 was proposed for the new buildings at the: British Mu- seum. 1Mr. BEAUMtONT took this opportunity of bearing testimeq to the liberality of Sir George Beaumont, who had, prsemted a coDle.- tie.a of pictures to the Mluseum. The colloction, thougb small qon- taitne some specimens of the finest description,; td e (Mr. fia. mon3t)hope! .that it would form the foundation of an extensive and valuiable jrnller~' The CHANCELbOR of theEXOHEQUER concurred in every thing which had faUlen'frm the honottyb e member who had last spoken. No man in the country could entertain a higher opnion than he did of the extraordineary liberalit'f. the hon. -gent=emags who had made this present. Sir T. BARING wished that Somerset-house, rmther than the British Mluseum, had been made the receptacle for a rational gal. lerv of pictures. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, the gift of Sir George Beaa nont had been to the British Museum eipressly. Sir CHARLES LOING said that the gift was expressly to the trustees of the British Museum s but, for a variety of reasons, Somerset-house was an unfit place, Mr. W. SMITH, independent of a pictuie glery, wished, for the credit of London, that Somerset-house were completed. Mr. CROKERs'id, that those wbo propo*ee to carry the picturns to Somerset-hou-c had intended to build the east wing for their re- ception. As it was, he wished that wing could be built, for the st.. commodation of the Roval Academyr, the prhserot provision forwhichr was very insdequate--Vote agreed-to. ?41,000 was voted for the harbour at Kinmale. ?14,467 for that of Donafhadoe. N Il,LBANEK PENITENTIARY. ?23,000 was proposed for the Millbank Penitentiarr. Mir. GORDON, before this vote was agreed to, wished to ki40o what was to be the ultimate fate of the Penitentiary. Alr. PEBELdidnot think it necessary to enter into the policy of burst building that ptison, nor could he say, at the present morient, what ultimately wrould become of it. Thi vwas certain, thstritust be ?fter very full inquiry and investigahon, if ever he was induced to send prisoners-here again. He understood it-to be the intention of the hen. member for Shvewrsbury to reNiye the committee of last session upon the subject; but for that information, he should have moved tbr the committee himself. ilMr. GORDON thought, however, that in the mean time the vote mightb e postponed. What was the money wanted for? *),r. PEEL said that the couvicts who had been 'provided for in the Penitentiary, mnst still be provided for, altkoogh they werecar- ried elsewhere. Mr. HUAME hoped that the committee, when it was revived; would review theheavychargein the vote forsilaries to officers. The salaries of the officers amounted to 6,0001. a year; the maintenance of 1,000 convicts to something under 8,0001. There was an item, too. for repairs, which, in the present state of things, he did not'an- Sir sa. n . R yDLE wished the medital reprt with respect to the Peniten2iarv to be laid before the house. e understood that the prevailing c'ompliinut diarrhua, hbd appeared in the very outset of the establishmnent. .I r. PEELsaid that the report, with a variety of other informa. tion, would be before the committee. With respect to the charge for repairs, none should be undertakeri which were not immediately necessary. ?25,560 was granted for deficiency of the fee fund in the depa.rt ment of 2he Treasury. ?15,000 for the eame in tde departsnezt ofthe Home Secretary of State. X-2,638 for the same, Foreign Secretary of State. ?14,500-Secretary of State for the colonies ?15,422-Privy Council and Council of Trade. ?8,000 for contingent expenses aind messengers' blUs la tho Treasurv. ?9.7f7 for the same, department of the Hiome Secretary. ?38,450 for the same, Foreign Secretary. ?7,500 for the same, Secretary for the Colonie ?2,464 for the sanne, Privy CounciL ?5,6M5, expenses of the Court and receipt of Exchequer. X8,640. Commissioners of the Insolvent Debtors' Court, clerks, and incidental expenses. ?11.966, expenses of the Houses of Lords and Commons. E21,t6] 9, salaries and allowances to officers of the Houses of Lords anJd Commons. ?4,800, fittings and furniture to the two Houses of Parliamen t. ?6,000, compensation to the comnDissioner for inquiring into the collection of the revenue in Ireland. ?3,060, National Vaccine Establishlfent. ?4,872, superintendence of aliens, and superannuation from such duty. ?10,910 for superainuation allowances to persons formerly em. ployed in public fflices. PENSIONS TO FOREIGNERS. ?16,520 wasproposed for relief toToulonese and Corsican emigrants7 Dutch naval officers, St. Domingo sufferers, and others who have Performed services, orsustained losses in the service of England. Colonel DAVIES was determined to object to this vote, and only wondered how it could have been permitted to go on for so, many years unresisted: the people for Wihom this vote was tilten had sacrificed themselves, not for England, but for the Bourbons; and it was to France that they were boulnd to look for compensation. To the Toulonese sufferers, who ought to be prorided for by France, ard to the Dutch, -who should look to the King of the Netherlands, he de- cidedly objected; and moved as anatnendment, that the voteshould be reduced'from 16,5201. to l5,7651. lIr. L-UNME said that there was an increase in the vote of 5001. since last year. This he could not understand at al. Mr. HERRIES said that the estiroateof last year had ben re- duced by an overpius of 609L from the year before. The UHAXCEILLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to explain to the house how tie case of these daimants stood. All the persons wh@ had formerly, as French emigrants, been maintained- by this coun- try, werenow provided for by the Frendc Govermnent; bht the present pensioners were persona, wvho, by obtaininji information or otherwise, had assisted England as to her means of carrying on the war. For the Toulonese, we could scarcely call upon the French King to maintain them, because, lthoun it wa m his name that we had taksen possession of Toalon, yet, in eivacutating it, we had seized a variety of Stores, ships, &e., and converted the same to our own use. Colonel DAVIES said, that France should be allowed to claim for those ships, &c., wvhen she had paid us back the blood and treae sure whicl we had given to piace-her King upon his thrQne. He believed that half the persons who were taking this provision from England were pensioned, or employed at the same time inFrance. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that whern they received it they were fbrced to sign a certificate that they had no other allowance. employment, or property. Colonel DAVItS knevr that officers iathe French guards did con. trive to give that certificate. After a few words from AILr. GotDox, Nr. GOt!LaURN, and M^.r. ARaUTrnrOT, the house divided; when the numbers were-- For the amendment, 21 1 Against it, 49 Mlajoritr for the vote, 28 ?6,590 was granted for the relief of American loyalists. CRiMINAL LUNATICS. ?3,306. los. for maintaining criminal lunatics. Air. HUlEl. now the house was upon this vote, wished to men- tion the casoof a ruin of the namne of M'Ilroy, who had been con- fined for a considerable time, after being found guilty of forgery. He understood that this man was now erfectly sans. Was it the prac tice to detain a criminal committed as insane, after his cure was perfectlyestablisbed ? Alr. PEEL said, that when a man was acquitted upon a capita offence upon the score Qf lunacy, it was understood that that verdict placed him at the disposal of the Crown. At the same time, the hospitl was a place of confinemeit for the insane, ant not for the sane; and no doubt, -when a patient was seen to be fully restored, the coursc would be to extend mercy tohtm. With. re- spect to the muan-in question, it was only in December lest he had been rcported as -" sane," without qubaification: when he (Slir. Peel) saw that hebad remained in that, statefso log as made ree_ dom likely to be safe to himselfandto the public, he should cer- tainly recoremend-the setting hiin atlibet. ?6,512 was grauted for allowances to Protestant ia.sentng ini. nisters in England poor French Protestant refugee cergy end laity, and sundry other allowances. ;h7,0o0 for printing acts of Parliarnent, bills, rtport4, evidetce, &c for the House of Lordso ?7,831 for the deficiency of the'samergntiI 1i23I ?4,047 for printing the records of the kingdorp. ?849 for printing copies of- the Marriage Act for the use of the ?$20 R00 for printing bills, &. for the House of Commons. ?13,4Zw for deficiency of same grant last year. year.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~er. . rQ ony^L pintng1,o0 opeso e79h volume ardbe jvslo ?W59 fo .dfidecy f te sae gant(for 78th volxurc) lasi r.r.HUME comilainedheavily of the anountofthesechge, and declared that front pne-third. to half migh be staved. d670 was granted for prtinting deficieicies in 1822. ?3,5001. forpuntinng totes. forllthe preseUt'year. .?96,310 for stationery, prnats.nKi5llitidiii g. ?17,00n0 for lawv expenses. * f - t home. ?10.714 for slrios of jeerr t.Oxford and CoSbridg. ?10,00 for the estrardnryspenJaeS oth ls Uthe sW ollrage. ?100,000-for the loss upoI the Irish siler ens r ed The house theh resumed, the chairman reported progrsis u d asked leave to sit again, vwhich was granted. The catt,ll txe&tWetLt bill was read a S-st tir e-committed oe The revenue inaill svn committef. The house vent i:ito a comnmitteeon thls bilL_Reprt for Friday. P}:NITBNTIARY. The Hoe. G. BENNET -moved for?committee to ine int the establishment of the Penitentiary. - he motion was eed t and the committee' nused wcco?dingly, ontisting, we the same members aS compose the committe For he sme pur- - pose-last vear. Mr. flUEMEE moved fot'a copy of the report of the counmswtit the House of Lords on wrehta and measures..-Ar~~ thc YOUi R PE NT. REDUCTIO BIW ThM& Will, for the paying of' or coDivethng into's three laf per csI>L stock the old four per cents., 'sa brought , w4 e titnei,:nd ordered to be real a seond time this day (Tuedy-) T*house adjourned athhlf-pst 12 o'clocL LIST OF;i THE MINO6TY Of 21, who ioed igainst the iaZnt OfE ,3-601 to Toulolese Aatll . orpD1r n tCk MigrAnta; Bonnet. i. L.tordon, f .Mtartlil, Ji wIUl . Irow ew DD 110' a Clvrt, c. HuSme, J. w - rhhleheod. tic had never saato tie contraey i tid to iniMpute gojr luig so to him was- o utter falselhood. Then as to allegingt'5j5 thing in respect to appeals u n new evtdericE....ipsesls.1 ap upon. decree, or in motions fo5r fLbrthev direction SO aIri t,e hadl at thera to exemplify the usefulness Qf.5JThe ENr Eldon not Only' di o taei -tother laci& hutede im hat didh het didtt iro nat he'did.sav;but hie attxi. Lord Eldon had harshly, pui.~' ~_'t H a nildt S5tt utte, an impted o ,.ato1 his mouth that whichi he -did not for thie purpose a, .,in also an abuse of hut seat ,at Pailiameast absurd f& utig orhtoie world paltry, filthy,an Elopt os (la,ha. And froni hec did L1otrd ,-~ -,Utter them ? (Chieers.) If he had n6t a Plartbing in the world .,e auclitors whiom LordmEdon chose were the 'very parties with 'whom his observations vwere likelv to effect his entire ruin. (Checers.) To whom was all thisq said -but to the people of England, tO whomi kw-as sure to be c-onveyed by reporters, who oDirtinuslly atteded o ilbrmthe ublc oftheproceedilngs In the' court. (Chere.)Tha wasthe lac-thi wa the manner in vwhich the fi~~ jdgeof he andthoghtlittoproceed against him, the iumbeatindiidul oftheprofssin. ad be been in cour_, 'what woul hae hppeed hen (Har,hear.) He hoped that he shold avebee abe o rstrin is eeings bya proper respect for the dignity of the coutrt: but had he spoken as his fecelings were likely to prompt him in answering, perhaps his lordship would have, thoupht it necessary to send him to the Fleet prison, Whatmus thepubic ave houht f it then ? To aee a judge entrin ino ateraton ithan ntlviual, a-ad using the authority of isproerataio ad ofie fr helow, base, degrding, andl palry bjets f prsoal esetmet. Loud cheers. Supp ose on the the had, hat e hd ben llowd t prcee in rep lying to the ccuatios. hata lesonforthe p ublic--what an ex- ample to hold out to them of the freedoni of debate ? The Lord Chancellor of England, in contention with a person 'of his own bar, abot smetingwhih te ltte ha sid in his place in Par- liamnt! Lou chers. nd hen,forhimn to be accused of not usig cuton her, ea). auion ideed! In whom was c3u- tionmos reuird? n wom id he antof it appear the mat? Surey nt i him wh adance tht wichhe had to say nta houe, urounedwit ale ndintllgent Men, manyofte connected with Lord Elo'sCut professionally, who couldI have inst.intl v set him rht-wh oudhave contende~d againist any per- I verted 0'r erroneous statement of his-whio would hatve e'xposed his tmalice to the light, and brought his falseh-ood to nmerited shame! (L,oudI cheers.) Froin wbence did his Lordship launch his asser- tions ? From the seat of justice, armed with all its official power and authority,r thuis seeking to dlestroy his fame and reputation, and thlat, too, at a place and time in which he w-as not present to offer an-y' reply. (Loud. chieers) They had hieard a great deal in praise of Lord Eldon's caution-of the justifiable delays whicht lie practised in Iiis courft (cheers), which were aittributed to an amiable infirmnity of his mind (louid cheers); that his only fault w2.i hi beng too scrupulous in his ~judgments (hear, hear) ; and p.erhaps a little too sensitive of injuries which lie applehend- edin his own mind on the part of' the suitors. (I-ear, hear.) It might be, that hadl this been a question of property, he would have inquxired, and called for affidavits end surplus nIBl. dlavits, to the delaty of days, weeks, months, or years and lest any party should he injured from any expres4sion of his, he would, perhaps, have abstained from giving his opinion the whole of that timec. But what were they to say of' the conduct of such.a 'itige,whenhe elt o hsitaionin nipdverting fromn his sicat of Justce ponexpessins sedby noter in his seat in Parliament, eng~d inshefairdisharg of tha whch he felt to be hi-, duty ? The, idee, hs lrdsip eemd t tink no more of c-aution-he didnottaes ny robleti inuir. o womshould.he have applied in te fist istane? o th AttrneyandSolicitor-General. Would they say that the observation whih he had the lionour toaddress to the house wouild justify the qnirnadversions of the Lordl Chancellor upon them ? Wouild the hon. sad learnedI member for Exeter, or Cite other hon. anti learned member for Tewkesbury,avow th-at? Surely Lord Eldon shouild have right information from them of wvhat passed within these walls. (Hear, hiear.) Let him ask by what authority, by what right, did tshe Lord Chanceflor of' ngad take uipon himnself to animadvert and comment from the saofjustice upon what was done here ? (Cheters.) Where would he look fot his precedents? 't,Vhere would he find his authori- ties? Coul-ihe prerend.tosay that hevwas not abusingthe privileges of' the house? (Loudlch-eers.) W~as it true that any individual memiber ofit mnust subject himnself by doing, hiii duty to the risk of any Chief Justice putting false statements into his'nmouth,andthsen sayin Ofhim that in the house he put forth utter falsehoods ? (Cheers.) asthat their boasted freedom ot'debare ? (Cheers.) Were the character and interests of any member to be left at the caprice, or justice or honour of any (Thief Justice ? And if thazt were allowved as to other memnbers, what milst be the situation of him who should also be a, member of the law, and perhaps a 'practitioner at his Lordship's bar. ifhe were subject to he deniounced byvthe judge himiself frotothe seat ofjustice (loud cheers), nmore especially if lie shouild depend on his exertions before that very judge for the only mueans of supporting his family ? (Loud cheers.) A memiber of the law so circumstanced, must be utterly destroyed; all his hopes would be blasted and ax- tinguashed ; not only might his profits in the profession be done away, but his character as a gentleman would be gone for ever, if he could find no way of redress. If the house would niot protect its destoy he hol fredomof ebae? Cheers.)Ifscthnsmt he ndueti ifl.~d Edonmigt sy o ay ma-n a ehdsifhm whatsecrit hadthe fo thefredomof debate? htwudb thesitatin o an getlean ho asat once a memnber of the law and of the house ? He could not persuade himiself that there was no redress to be hiad. It was a fit case for the interfe-re-nce of tile house. If they refused redre~ss-if they did not take acime de- cisive and rigorous step to right themselves, the freedom of debate was gone-their privileges were gone-independence and public spIrit wvere gone. If such thingzs could pass without remonistrance, land without redress, farewell uIson to independence and public spirit, or any expectation of them, in the profession of the law. For i? tlsi were bhe situiation of any gentleman wiho happened to be a member of the ouse, wrhat must be tbesituation of another who mightuot have theanne oporuniy tdo imslf igt, that he (Mr. Abereromb v) had,and as bligd, a th sam tte, to he moere careful of his view in he rofesion? (heer.) e prot-srted that he did not raisthi quetionfromany ostie feeings towards L-ord Eldon, (chers, bt bcaue h cosidreditas a most gro.'s and unwar- rantble ttak onthe reeom o debte.Feeling that it would digaehim for ever as a mewber of tle hose-that it would dis. quaiyhiM to conitinue in that profesgion to which he belonged, and thatt would sink him down from his station and character as a gentlhuman-he claimed of thie house, in the first instance, to be sl- lowed to prove the exprssons iised by Lord Blaon at the bar of the huse.That eingdone, it woula'be for the housie to determine what step should be next taken). IlUemoved thatAIr. Fanquharson. of 323, Strand, be ordered to attend this house to-mtorrow." (Loud cheers ihir. CANN )ING said, no otis could feel more disposed to acirnow- ledge the candlourwhich had maskted the stateulent of the hon. gentle- mlan-no one could have more respect for the feelings of wounded honour which antimated himn, and no one coalId Yield a greater allow- ance in the scope of his remarks, thanbe would have done, liewas ieadY toadmit, too, as far as posible, tlie apparent grounds which the hoinourable and learned gentleman had for his uneainess, and the righit which he hael to vindicate himself from the acc-ustions rnade against himi. As an unprofessional man, he (M1r. Canning) had not been able to follow distinctly- the addresqs of the honourabte gentleman on the night in question, nor his own explanation nowr of' the expressions wvhichi he had then used. But he was ready, to &ay that it did not appear to him that on either occasion the boo, gentle- mant went out of his way for purposes of personal ainnoyance. or that he conimitted any infraction on thte pnoper privileges of debate. Such was4 the imopression on his mind at the time ; and had he been called u'Pon in hiis s,ituation elsewhere to haTe explained, he would readily have admitted that t'uere was nothing beyond the free limits of discussion in the aAdress of the bonourable gentleunan-nothing which could have wrarrantedI any feelings of anger and personal re- sentmient. He was hound to aamit this and turther, that in pro Portion to the exemplary caution with which he had proceede in this aff'air, and the Just conifidence which he lhad on the recollectioIn of what had occoirreti in the course of' the debate, in the samne pro. portion must have been lisa surPrise and indignation at the in. accuracY of the 6tatement foawhich the transactions took their rise. fle agreed, tro, that more caution, in ascertaining -the exact diffrence or resemblance between the first inforimationireceived and the real ineaninig c(nveyed in the expre.ssions of the hon. gentleman, would have been better. As an unlearnaed person, he could not ex- actly determitne the difference in thse expressions, or the variationi of sen-se to whiich that tlifference led. But those of his professional friends who were near had assured him, that without some of the qualifications whiich the hicn, gent, had g,iven to his meaninr, which had been left out in the account by which Lord Eldon was guided, that account would have conveyed to his lordship's mind a misrejure. sentation, which in point of fact was not true, and which had carried hisc lordship's feelings a little too far-a weakness which, hr hoped, would be- met with a generous allowance from the liron. gen- tleman. Beyondtheseadmisisions,bhecould not go. He,too, would defend the privileges of Parliament; but did the hon. wentleman mean to say, that any thing being stated here, though of an indivi- dual standing as higk in situation and character as this emine,nt Jud6e, that lindividual, he he who he might, was bound to put up with it and stifle his resentment, though it might convey a wvrpg and unmerite-d imputation ? Freedomn of debate was- of the greatest benefit to the countryt: but soimething must be allowed for a case in which the character and conduct of a judge h aa been mnade parts of the quiestion, espeially aftea life sent in the most honourable Pursuits-that rTudIge, too, being generally aamitted to be o-re of the most lust, and righteous, and unexceptionable, perhaps, ever k-nowni. The hon. gentleman contended, that Lord Eldon had -no right to take cognizance of their proceedines ? What! not if his conduct was im. eahedby tileirobservatiops? WVasit not natural-uniustitnotbe his .irt is to clear himself, and to take the best opportunity which should ofherto refutewbhatever he might deem false orerroneouss? He e',aslittlecapable of8screening the fact bythesub)terfugeof supposing that it was not the house nor rtse honourable genitleman to wrhom the Lordl Chiancellor alludcd ; but he was as little p?repared to admit the argumient which would convert this into the design of the mtagistrate to frown downl either the freedom of the house, or; of any member or? it, wncnaroefo itetomchsrns rsniie or z, wlcna.-se roma lttle too much. soreness or sensitive- ness of reproach, especially after the spotless and irreproachable life which he had led. He admitted that thig sensibility was a fault, but it was rather to be callcd an excess of right teeling. Could the, be very harsh in their censures of it? He wished the course Mad been taken which wa, usually taken-in the first place to verify the first testimony by other evidence. Undoubtedly that to sav the least, was an omission which the noble lord must have regretted. Bur were they prepared to visit that as a very grievous fault which was only an Omission ? For let it be observed,thehonourablegentle. man had omitted one 'ery i nportant sten in the transaction upon which all the rest went; which was. the erroneoua vehicle of com. munication through which the noble lord received his information. The newspaper from which he took it wasonly delivered to him in the course of the morning. His right hon. and learnedfriendnear him as- surs%l himnthatbislordship onlyEawitahlitlebeforegoingintothe cour It waA not wonderful that errors shonld have found twir wayinto it; but the fact was so, and greatly as the country benefitted by it, this was arnong the inconveniencies which they must sufferin consequen4a efit. Then what vas their present situation? Were the hots. and learned gentleman and the learned lord so entirelycommitted by this, that they muse continue oa differ ? That which the Lord Chancellor had spoken proceeded from misrepresentation, not wilful-he was far from im tuing itc but it had the appearance of being wel founded. Theinon and leamed gent. had amply cleared himceIfbefore thchousenred thecountry. He oughtnottogoon,withoutfirstcmowing what the Lord Chancellor would say on knowing that he nro'eeded on entire misrepresentation ef the expressions used by the hon. and learned gentleman. He was sure that the hon. and learned gentle- man would repen t if he' were to preclude himself from the most sub- stantial ztiafection whicha he could hope to obtain-to know that the feelings ofthat noble and lernmed lord would not have been e-itid if he could nave known that the words which irritated him were Dot i true represxtion of tlte ease. TO prwnt that. as far tI 1 i Ss pwr c.po w ed e mes (Chesrs.j ' '' '- Aitr. YIRt7I 1t ld ot rise to assIt Mts hoit. and learned fftserd.eitherin5pitlitilikLor Eldon in thiewgonf, or showing thaLt he was in the right. for rhititolplaofistlon. an learnedfriend over his adlversiTY, i4tbxo t'hoin and ihe other, was already comn- plete. (ICheers.) ' Bybhims41he,had gained the Enrt ofthose 'objects -,-the other *as seczi-d'by, te defence, of the- right bon'. gent.- as defienE of whic'h the In-do'ar w'as great, the"firintiess.-not little. Hrt scarcely kmesi .. why he shouldl call it' a de- fence It w&a no adeenet of uird Eldon, it teas ass adl- raission of the Witse chargslt WAS rather a -humble, he would not. say a -aubmissire,' but cettainly & -judicious arguiment in extenuiation. (Loud 6beeri&)iBut the right honouirable geuitlenlan sdetmed to'forget, that besides the pardeifes'hbad namned, Lord Eldon anil his ban; atnd learned friend, th'erelwas a tbird party to lie tak-en into the aceount (cleers)-he meant the house. (Lcua3 Cheers.) But there was a thirdparty.narnely,tbe House of Commoas-whiels eamiebefore even tho high interests of his hon. and iesened friend's character, over iehicli nevet crosse even the- hadaow of a shade in the estimiation of any man, though thus un.uIstifiably and grossly maltreated. There was the higher interet of that ho'use of Parlia- ment: its high and extraordinary privileges would be destroyed, or remain but to he laughed at by tose who hated tbena, if nothing furether were done in- thfs mnatter. to.n' Igt, it' it were foundl that theyv were only poiverfui against the weak, but impotent against the strong. Let the editor of a niewspaper so otTend let a reporter of their debates be guiltj'-of any misstatement, ,an what would be said of the editor when at their bar, (though that was not the stage in whbich they nowv were with the Lord ChLn cellor), were he to urge in his lkhalf that he was anxious for the character of his newspaper, and were he to azsk them not to prceed too harshly-not to think of proceeding any farther-not to thin k f examaining into it, becausehbe admitted that he acted hastily, and that ifhe had waited only 48 hnurs longer, he wduld not have made the remark, because hie w~ould have found thiere wais no ground for it V That was a defence whichb he hiad never heard till that night. The luestion was thia-tlte Lord Chanicellor is admitted to have been) 2n the wron; no man denied that he had gressly violated the privilegesotf'Partament. (Hear, hear.) In what-consisted thepri- vileges of'Parliamrent? He (Mr. Broughain) remembered an in- stance in which in accordance with that pass,age of theBill of Rights- which said, "dieht no ijiembet of Parliament should be questonedI in any other court or place for any words used by him in his place in Parliament," an indlividual weas sent to prison. Yes.;,Mr. Gale: Jones was sent-for 5 orfi mouths to New ~ pothtuible in the thing ike wht Gal Joneshad dne~namlv,plcardin thestre.ets sent came muc nearer to an infringemen ofseBl fRgt.I was in a court, where, eetigaitqe ea2ditque, the noble lor des not ta'ke time to inquire-~lie does not let that Saturday and Sundlay Sass ere he pronounces uipon it. lie does n ot "question," but he does worse-he sentences without hearing; and carrie-sthiat sentence into execution forthwit-hhlmself. (Hear,'hear.) fe (Mr. Broughamn) did not use language t6o-st~bug: of the noble and learned lord smo- tives he should say nothing, for with thenm he had nothing to do; but he judged by his acts, and by tlii tendency of his proreeding.-- and hne would ask whiat barrister in that house could proced in the honestfearleasdischageoflais publicduty, if the .udge ofthe courtin which he practised coulld blast and clestroy his chiaracter, on wliceh Ilis subsistence and that of hit family might depend ? TIhat juidge did* so in effect when he passed on him a sentence which went to exclude hi fo thepractice ofhspo4in n so fra in bin) lay to say that the Iord Chancellor meant to do thiat, but to a cer-tain de- grehscnduct wouild product that efTect ; and he aske-d in what a'- s1eituationhenceforward would be the bar, if for fearlessly discharging : their duty in 'that house, the barrister might be jiable to such treat. ment. it was a direct, violent, gos, and flagrant violation of the Privileges of that hiouse ; and thugh thie characeter of his learned riend stood unimpeached, and, if' possible, Ihigher than before, yet coIld any one doubt of the fross impropriety of the proceedings?P and only because ithe guilt ot rashness and precipitancy formed a portion so unloaked-for in the offence--because, in addition to in- justice toanindiv,idual,was addedthe chageofrashnessand impatience towards that house, no one step wvas to be taken. He sincerely wishedi hie miight be.mnist4keu, but he greatly feared that any person connected withi the puiblic press, whbo should wish to pub,lish any coment ona mmbe, o plcar an materresectngthe de- bats, peaingtruhs oweer ateul,or oldng thehose up in chaactrshowve faseif ucha ishshuldcrss hemind of suc peso, ad rman ugraifed,itwould be most extraordi. naryshold he ous allw s grss cae as the preset to pass on. The SOLICITOR-GENBRAL, then addressed the house, but from the low tone in -which lie spoke, the cornmencemnent of his a1-1 dress was itiaudible in the gallery. From what he recollected or what hIls honourable and leamedl frien'd had said5, and that which the p- epa had made him state, there was a considerable difference. is l'earned friend was represented to have said,that theyreal construction of the Vice-Chancery bill hid born evaded by appeals, being per- mitted to be brought before the Lord Chancellor without the signa-. ture of' two counsel when in fact whiat his learned friend had said on that head relateA to imotions. He (the Solicitor-Genieral) put iti to the feelings ofbhislearnedafriend whether any'person (not to sueak- ofmnyLord Eldop), butany man wi.sefeelings were easily mnovedl,it he must not have h`ad his feelings, ir-ritated by the account so) given in that naewap Cr. He was sure the house Would conmc to tite con- clusion hc e hd-that a mnisrepresentation hiad been made of the speeh of kisi hon. and learned friend. The hon. miember thten read fromi a morning paper (the Afarniue Heral) the following, as the misrepresentation to which he had alluded :-'" Any cause that had been before the Vice-Chanc]ellor might be again, accord- ing to the present practice, brought before the Chancellor-not b - way of appeal, but on rehearing, by getting the parties to furnis niew affidavits. setting forth newv matter, adl;iough the law was, that no appeal tshould be brought without the signstores of two counsel. The Lord Chancellor permitted that practice by which a gr-eat ex- penas was broug:ht on thet litigating parties, anid great disparage. medet on the learned judge. who hRad just heard thie cause. IHence arose much of the increaed buisiness ofthe liord Chancellor's~ Csrt in permnitting those causes to be brought for his heari_ng, by that construction or rather evasioni of the act of Parliamentrt." Tue learned judge was there char6ed with an evasion of the act or Parliament, with rehearing appeals, and that without the signature of counsel: but what this papercbarged the .iudge with as to the breach of ani act of Parliuient, his hon. and learned friend had toldI the house was not what he had stated. Hie tLhe Solicitor-General) wyas absent fromn the Coart of Chancery on tne mnorning of Satur-' day, buit when on coming into Court the paper was shown to him in which that report was, he read it over, and he immnediately said, "1I doubt whether 21r. Abereremby, myv hon. and learned friend, ever saidthat." (Hear,bhear.) He was gladlof tlat cheer, for'if he were asked ,vhetlhtr this was a% correct report of what his hon. apsd learned friend had said, he would aity it was notea correct report. He had not said any thing of it being a disparageent. to the Vice- Chancellor, 'in thie accouint Which hehd given of it that night. The complant of his hon. and leatned friend wvas, that the Clhancellor beerd with twt much facility appeals fromn the Vice. Chancellor. Now he (the Solic'itor-General) recolleCted, tWO Yeat ago, that the Lord Chancellor told the Vice-Chancellor, thet titers wasnohig in tht Vitm-Chancery, act to prevent him hearing mo- tions. The Vice-Chancellor wished the signature of two counsel to be required, as was tht case in appeals; but the Lord Chancellor said he could not do it, because, acconhling to the uniforim practice of the Court as to appeals from the Rolls, it was not neceissary. Unider these circtrumtantes, he (the Solicitor-General) thought that his hon. ana Iearned friend had apptopriated to himself expressions which were meant to have no personal relation. Hehad the highiesti opinforn of the honour and integrity of his lion, and learned friend: there was no man in that house more incasable of speakitig wvhat he, did not think to be true, or less capable of making a public inquiiry thec medium of atn attack, on private chargteter. It had been inade matter of complaint that this was a personal attack, and he (the So- licitor-General) did not hesitate to say, that if a judge might attck a tiean in his own court, in the way that here it was, imagitned lbed beendone, the profes,sion of the law was, indeed, thrown down to a state of prostration (besr, bear); but which he would never believe coula be the case, or he svoitld not gt up to say a wvord in explana- tion. But he wouild say, thle Lord echancellor wa, not speaking of the individual, but of the paper which lits held in his hand, and of that it was impossible for any man to have spoken but in the we)' the nobole and learned lordi did speak. He went along with his righit honourable friend who spoke 1lirst in the debate, in not supposing for one moinent that any personal attack- was meant. It was a vindication frot-n an attaYkwhich the noble lord supposed to be un- He-dd nt sa tht a~ inuir of he ous of Comn ogtt char&e no mati could help feeling, and that feeling woulbexrs- ed in terms m-ote or less measured,acodn toheisstonf thle=pry By the cheers of the bonorbegnlmnopst,h inerdtat they could nor coure to tecnlso hc eddta the noble lordt had not me~ant to censuzre any otiis personallv. On that point, he must tgainL rerert to the diffrence betweeni the ripor;in the paper and what his hon. and learnid fried had said-adifference as ,essential iis truth,pnd Pde 9ods..The imputatiorn which his lion. and learned friendecomplaiied- f, didl not apply to any thing said by a member of that house;but v4as an answer to an hypothetical case. -He therefore saw no reason -why the matter should go any fart her, as there was no reason that his bon. friend should think either that his chara'cter or the privilages of the house were invaded.' MVr. SCARLhTT said, it a'as with considerable relu'ctance thatt he roee on this occasion, but he thought that he should betray hifs duty to the profession of which he was ani humble mnenber if he did not adelver his sentinitents. The speech of his hon. tind learned friend (the Solicitor-General) did him the highest lionour: he had at least demonstrated that he would never have done that which his hon. and learned friend (Mrt. Atbercromby) complained of; for when he had read thenrewspaper contaiLning the report, he had said at once that he doubted ifbhis hon. anid learned friend (Mi: Abereroulby had saCidwhat was there attributed to hhm,. and lie (M1r._ Scrtti had yet to learn that the Solicitor-General was more disposed to doubt than the Lord Chancellor of England. (A laugh.) Before the noble and learned lord took a step wlhich appeared to'bim (Mr. Scarlett) the most degrading to the bar of England that could be con- ceived, he might have brought that report in the newspaper to the knowledge of his hon. and learned friend, and might have known from him if it were'e just eport, and if he would abide by it. There was another course: he-might have auuded to the report, and stated it as a reportf There were various ways in which individuals might reply, if their characters were attacked in that hoase, without violating its privilegei. They might state it as a report, and replY to it aa. tuch. He (5r. Scarlett) would be glad to Inow if the Lord Chancellor of fngland were, for words injariowst to his ho- nour or his feelings, to proceed againsta member ofthe house, bythe authority of his court, and commit him to prison, would he not then be guilty of breach of their privileges ? Or suppose he were by some process of the court to fine -him, would they not say that weas grosa violation of their privileges ? ^le asked the house,if, then the Lord Chsncell0r o'? England could not attack time person or the property of a member ofth'athouse, why?hey should surrender their charactersto his pleasure? (Hear,hear.) lIe(,Mr.Scrlett) would rather the Lord Chattcellor. lad deprived him of hi5 fortune, sent him to prison, 4r stripped him of his gown_-rather than cal him liarm teseatofjubemte (Hear, hear.) Suppose any min ofequal Sttion in socety were to ineet himu{Mr. Searlett) in a publieplace, and sy, "Sir, vou have stated things of 'me that are great false- hoodst, yo-a dou d,eserve-th gaown on -vour back,"-what would thebouse think of that in the,cAse ofanfndividual? But how in. finitely more violent, s-ore rude, 1nere grating to the feelings,, when coming fiom the -Ijord Chaqellor of E lgland' ini the seat of justice. It had. been- -sidthat the bar of England was in a- graded state.- It wdtildill-brofhe-him (Ar.Scareet) to discuss the ttth^ or fale3hood of tht fstiofr, but this he would say, that if the bar of ilzIind'darefitended to *bcdegraded there could not be a *ure e ctseaiway'taa of :dping it. *And i-bArrister prac. tlS$if.tct*W bj$clb X < i-at hour ttc'bPls oan Ieatne4 lorM =ola not do any thingp bett*r to degrade him,nh't by t&ying he hmai toid fasehood s, ana aldding with' a aneer. !uTti's is done by men wi'th gon n their barks." He (Air. Sdarlett) w ldakthe house,, wiat they 'would'tbiink if this sort of conduct wer pratised bl~ a prirtite individual? What, then, Ought they, to say,-' whehv'.it was iritctised by, the Lord Chaneellor? The usefti1nest.' of 'the privileges- of Pariliament -were, if he under.. stood any' thing of theim, that. thaey:protected the meenbems of that house agaiAst all attacks to which thie dischiarge of their dut'y foight subjeft them froim without.' In this view, thein, he could tander- sta'nd no argument by whichl It should be attempted to excuse an attack made by ani individual of' the greatest power, of the highest reputation and,dignity in his ,profession, against one whio occupied a -station humble in that profession, althouigh in the esteem of hlis friends his mierit had long entitled him to t1;e highest vlaod. No reason could be alleged wh v the noble lord shiould poiur out th e phial othIls wrath upon hise bonourable and liearned friend, lie. caue le hd spooed im o utersomethitig which was pain- fulto is ordhf's eelngs Le te house imaeine that this wasthecas ofanyoter si'ge,whohadnopower (as the judges had one beond is our, ad wh ha tl~represumed to censre he rocedigs n tis ous, ad clumiate the cba- ractrro on 01'itsmemers-oul th hose not feel indignant atdwould it hesitate to express that indgato? WVhy, then, was it he~ said) that the greatness of the offne ntis instaince was to bii lsis protection?P Was it from fear or from interest that the house-forbore to put the Lord Chiaicellor of Englandi in the same situation as any unhappy printer or other persons who-.should bave violated theirprivi.leges? Indefenceofhislordship,his hon.and learn- ed friend the Solicitor-General said that his lordship termed some- thing an " utter falsehood" whiceh hiis hon. -and learnedi friend (Air. Ablereromby) was misrepresecnted to have said in Parliament: but was it not an improper animadversion on the proceedings in Parlia- ment that constituted an attack, upon its, privileges ? Every, bod who hiad spoken bore testimony that his honourable andyleavned friend did niot say what had been imputed to him. But it was said that the Lord Chancellor would have spoken truth in chiaracterizing that as fase' whirlh his honourable- and leamned friend was said to have stated, lHePut itto the house to say, whether, in questions of privileee, it was ever in the hiabit of inquir- ing into the~ truth of statements nmade out of it. whien the intention of the persons mnaking them was evidently vwith a viewt of v'ilifying and degratling any of its 'menihers, in consequence of somrhit1ing' hel mlighitlhave said or done inbhis plafe? For tie Lord Chancellor per-; sonally, lie (Mr. ricarlect) felt nothing ~but respect. Wh'lenev-er be hiad, in the coairse uf his piolfessional avocations, been before that noble Mudre, he had experienced fromi him great civility but it was frmastrong sense of duty-, altboulgh with great reluctance, that he' feZlt coimpelled to express thie opsicion he entertained of his conduct ~iI this~ instance. In no instance, as far as lie could learn, 'frmn die' historY Of the country-, as well as from his Own experience in the house; had the Parliament of England been more vehemently calle-d UPOn, to vindicate and preserve its privileges and its dignity. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL rote to offer sot-na f'ew obser- Vations to the lhouse on this subject. The imipression on his mind with respect to the attack which the noble andl lestmed lord was SC. cused' of making, was, that he had no intention of mak-ing any, such attack, but that he w-as desirous mnerely of defending himself from an attack- which had been made against hint, fit begged the bouse to consider the situation in which the Lord Chancellor, or any other indiv'idual, a-as Placed, whio muight be miade the object of certain charges which should be circulated throuzhout the cotuntry without contradiction. The debate, in the course of which the spoeech of his hon. and learnied friend (Mlr. Abercrombv) had been madel, took place on Tuesday thie newspaper in which' a report of it was inserted was publishedI on WVednesday, In that report (whiceh he admitted was aim incorrect one) the Lord Chancellor was charged with a very extensive malversation of his office, withi having perverted the practice of the Court of Chanicery, and wvith having' et-aded the law itself for a miost degrading purpose-namrelY, for that of elevatinig himself at the expense of another juilge who was sitting in the same court, Could naiy thing he asked, be usore galling to the minid of the individual against wilom it was made than such a chare? hatehags, hussupose tohave been miade %vithin the' wall ofPariamnt,hadbee cicultedthroughout the kzingdom forseera dys he te eprssinsofthe Lord Chancelor, now al-i lude to hadbee usd. Bt wuldit not be fair to iuqiuire wheterhs ho. ad larne frendhad, in the interval, taken any measures to correct this rRisstatmenirt ? Did he come down to~ the house and call for its cettsaure upon the individual who had cir-) culated so gross a libel, as unTtrue and as unfair as it regarded hinm- self, as it was calumniatore- of thie Lord Chanicellor?~ XV17s the noble and learned lord, tlberefor6, supposed to have felt nothing, whien he saw this charge made universally public, and remaininig uncontra- dicted ? Could no excuse be founrd for Iiim when he imade use of the expressions whlich had been alluded to ? Was Isa (thie Attorrnev- General) then stating too much, when he said that the LOWt Chaim- rellor did niot attaci hiis hoti, and leaTned friendi, but that he only- defenided hiimself froiss the aspersions which hiad been so unjustli- cast upon hinti? -'le (che Attorney-General) was ready ro say, that1 his hon. and learned frienid didI n6r give any ground for tlit stiren which he was represtented to hiave, made. H'e followed him throughouf the distinctions which he hiad taken respectitig the se-veral modes of P-scnce in the Cou-rt of Chiancery, and of 'whichi he comrplaindci. The technical knoivledge wlmicli lie possessed of the subject made those distinctionis perfectly clear to hiim, hut he was quite awarti that to any hut a lawyer'.4 mind they might not, appear so clear, and that persons unacquainted with) the -prac-tice of the court- might easily- mis- apprehend thien. To thiswvant of knowledgre. ajcndnt to ant,-desire of Misr!epre-senting what hadl parsed, he attributed the srror which appeared in the newspaper. The noble and learned lord, he ad- mitted, expressed himsell'uttguardedly and with considerablewarmith and indigniation but it must be reiiembered that at the time he did so lit hel sn hut hand the paper contaituing the statement, and ththsalndversions were directs-t, not againszt his lion, and learn- edi friend,_but against that statement which had for several days re- nisined onctintradirted. Wlilianth~eirritating and degradting nature of the co.nduct which was impuite,dtolhim )was atthe sa-metrime'recollect~ ed, wouldi it, he asked, be too much to expect that the house should ma.ke some allowance for the warmth of the terms in which the no- ble and leamned lord's feelinigs had been expressed ? This was the fatir and candid statemen-t of th e case, and it did appear to him, that when the privileges of the house were talked of. reference shou!d ,,et be "-,.ateo whsat took p5o- 50 100 3 -eo, when the buhl' cation of the debates wyas not permitted. iNow rmsrLprEsentatons were madle daily, and were allowed with imPunity. it a-as therefore a little too miuc'h to propose to exercise in an inreasiec like the -pre- sent, a power which was so seldom uised. With respect to the de- graded state of the Engliasl bat, of whicll lis hon. and learned friend (Mr. Scarlert) had spoken, he could not help saying that he altoge- ther disagreed with him, At no pe!riod in the hifstory of the couintry had the bar exercised a greater indlependence, or enjoyed a more ex- tensive freedom ofdliscussion, not onp yo?t thecasea in which theyr were engaged, but upen the conduct ofthejudges before whom they pleaded. Feeling thus, he should hiave been sorry to nermuit his hon. anad lear- ed friend's observation to pass writbouit stating thait it was in his ?ptnion totatly destitute of foundation. Thie way' in whichi the sub. jeer now came before the hiouse wvas this--the representation, he adm-itted, was false.; but it had been smsddenily presented to the mind of the noble and learnevi judge sehomit concerned. and remained un- contradicted, If'the noble lord's expreisions had been, as hie thought they were, too warmn, still he thought, unmler the circumnstances, they were not such as should induce th'e house to suPPort the motion of his hon). and learned friend. Alr. SCA RLETT explained. Illr. TI ERNEY tnought the course pr0iioqed to be adopted bv the hon. and learened gentleman op astine be rejjected bit-the h'ouse. His hon. and leamred efriendl _)h brcromnbv) mad opan to the house, that the Lorti Chancellor in hiis juidgment-seat had spoken of him, in respect to a speech whiceh he had. made in Parlia- ment, nor only ini utitne-asured but in calumnnious trrcs *Every gentlemian in the house muist, he waisurnt-, be satisfied wyith the statement of hisi hon. and learned friend : every gentleman on the) opposite side: of the houise wrho had spoken, adniittred the fact that his' hon. and learnedi friend lied given no cause for tite calunsiies which had beeni applied to him, it was iimpossible that any ntanl could stand niece highly or inure deservedly int the Public estimation than kis hen,. and learned friend, notwiths-tasding the reprehension of th Lord Chancellor. (1iear.) flowever warm kis (Alr. Ticertis) friend- t.hip for his hon.and learned frienid was.he could desire nothing moreon this-ubject ; andhere, iheret'orc,heleftit. Buitwhat.hemuistsk,was: to become of the calumniator ? iVas it to he endured that a man i hldin g the Lortd Chancellor's high station shouild be at liberty lo ca- luiate any humible individual who oiight offnd him ? Thlere w'ere, besides, in this case difficulties of a miost extraordinary, kind. In the first place,, none of the hiots, and learned gentlemn a oha addressed the hourse on this subject had said thieywcvre authiorized by) thie Lord Chancellor to say one sAyllablea;bout it. If his, lordship had intended to humnble h'imself before the house, he was sure- the 'righit hon. secretary wouild have beer. thie last pierson whom he would have selected to express his~ humiliation. Of all1 mets in the world lie~ would nor have chioseis biln whiom he hiad arrested from. his foreign:! yravels, for the purpose of defending him at honme. (Laughicr.) The;1 bon. and learned gentleman (the Solicitor-General) had told the house that the liord-Chancellor was excited to say what was now complained of because he saw on a sudden in 'a ntwsppaier a.- statemieat whic'hwsamte o ob one in fact. If this- were so, then it must hiave bees the only passer the Lord Chancellor: everresi., that he didi tiot also take home and conider. (Laughter.) Trhat upon this cme, however, lie at once came to a decision, wvas: the onlv point that was relied upon for his defence. li'e ( Mr. Tierneyl was now called upon, after all tite Iord Chancellor's long services of so watiy years, and after all tite doubhtings he had so often expressed, to acquit him, not for a newv inistance ofdoubti'g.-n-iot for an amniable, though perhiaps an injutdicious hesitation, but be;.' cause he was a rasht man. (A laugh.) He wranted, however, to,I loans from the noble sand leamned lord himself that he was this rash man. (Hear, heatr.) But to try this question by the forms of the house, it must be cons idered, in the fiust place, that the complaint wal's respecting certain expressions tehicis were 6aid to have beeni ised out of`dcors. Now, it was never the practice of the-house to excuse such a breach of its privileges, wlithiout some explanatioui miade, to it by the individual accused. The motion so which the houise was called uponto greewasonl tha thy mght e pt ito possession of de fats pon hichtherompaintwasfouned,suppo,se that Mr.Farulsrso, te sorthan teite ha sttedtothe house the exac exretmloss n wichthenobe a~ larnd lrd and indulged, thencamethetimewhe thehoue coldbear what lie had to Offer in mitigation of its judgment. But thiese would occur anothero diffi- cislty. Could they hear the L-ord Chiancello at the bar f h houAe ? No.- Were thev then to abstain fromi exercisitig their privi- aed them protected him? i n else last instance, he believed, where thehouse had proceeded avgainst a person whohad offended their prerogative,_ he meant iSe. Ho,pe,-the l,ouse insisted upon his attens- dance, and atithough they afterwards came to a determination, in which itmattered not whether be (iIr.'ierney) did or did not con- cur, ar.d bv which they let off that gentlen very easily, to say the feast; they so far acted acording to their usual practice. *They were now dealing with the Lord Chancellor, and it was to be seen whether, merely becausr one- of the Ai- nisters aod the Attorney-General spealitg, as it seemed5 merely from the dictates of theirbwn klinlyfeelings,' laid they believed the Lord Chancellor was a rash man, the house would consider that as,| a sufficient excuse- For his ownopart, lie (Or. Timiet) coald make great allowances for the temper of mind in which the noble and learned lord was probably at that moment. After the attempts wbich -sad been made, during the last four of five years, to esta- brish an inouiry into his Court. the recent detennination of bis Ala. jesty's Dliinisters was very likely to have disconimposed himi. His amiable temper might have been ruffleA when those officers said to him, " Tbough we can defend you from :that inquiry which has been asked for, yet we m-iust appoint a commission for exa- mining into the state of the Court of- Chancery." That this hid nuch disturbed his lordship, he (0T. Tierney) could well conceive. But the Attorney-General said that his lordship, in using theetx!ressions wbich had been irnputelto bim, had Attscked no oie,- but nad defended himself from an n0just attack-*tfiat he had attackedthe paper,and not the man. It seerxied tha bt his lordshlp u~tiknd or &srrtpeNtfs of that paper, the tepertd j vwhlc!l; is-eis. atel sezed theopprtiity t peseted, hesidapeor.d n o' gown on i's back, and the person the rod C1haneellorf-.s. tackd woe i gow, an 'hs Lodshp cautioned hiisi' dgsixi5 any uth)'nsreresntaon n ftur. -(Laughiter.) lie. (Air. Tiem~')hadtoomuchresectfortheb2n. and learried~ elema a udersandin so uppoe hecould believe slk-t tbeI'Lld Chanellr sokeof h~ dbat, o raherof the report of that debate and ot o histhre ho. an leanedfriends. who took'pait it ij' 13ut the'g-reet difficulty, would be, howv they should he-at the J~r Chancellor. When the motion should be carried, (and b6 had no. ,doubt that it would be carried, izotwi rhstanding the contrary opiniep which had been expressedI by one of his hon. friends,) what could'bd done? The Lord Chianecelor could not g6 down to his court,sad say from the Bench, " l'What I asserted on Saturday last was; rashly 3a, serted ; I was wrong ini saying whbat I then said, adid I beg pardon lor havinkg done so." This would be quite impossible, for it woug& ruin his lordship ast a judge. And1 yet somletin mnust be done. No one could admire snore than he (IMr. Tierney) ~i tls exeniv r search and the (admirable integrity of the noble and learned lord, but still be could not think thiat hisatlninistration of' usticein the courtbad been' so filled with blessings on the counitry, th~at the Parliamnentsr. laws should ste-p asside andl make roomi for 'his escape on thlis occi., sion. Thejurisdiction ot' the court was adinjtted to -be, in coinmee parlance, a national grievance' He meant to impute no base mnotivet to the Lord Chancellor ;but was. it ro be said that because he wsag approaching the end of hitE career (as he mrust suppose that now hie Lordshipvwas drawing near to thiat point), be had a right to say wVht he pleased. no mutter whbat pain he might inflict upon the feeling or what injryhe mighbtdotothe ftrtunes,of indiv-iduals? W1as he en utter whtver might seem good to hiim, because he wvas a Chancellor of two-and.twenty years'.standinig? Yet itwasmsid tli, no further tteps'were to be takeu in this affair. He (Mr Tierntv) it were not proceeded ini, aien out of doors would say that the house, in the vindlication of its privileges, digi not treat equlally persons of high and df lowv sta,tions. For this reason It was that. he implored rue housve to consider the? necessity, at least, of having the: facts. proved ; and of' regarding, not !o much wliat belonged to the Lord Chancellor 'of Bnglad,as what concerned their uw-n dignity, their own independence, and their own. interests Mr. PEEL differed entirely from the opinion expressed by the hon. gent. who had spoken laelt. l4e submnitted thatthelhouse wvoula do well first calmnly to survey the difficulties of the case, not us% the hon. member proposed, to take steps f't'st. end to consider of tht difficulties afterwards. The question before'the hous-e mighitbe di- vided into two branches first, it should be inquired whether there bad been any breach of privilege ; and..oecondly, whether there had been any, attempt to threaten any, of the members of thse legal profes. s.ion, inithe discharge of their duty as members of thatbhouse. This distinction,cofwhich the latter br~anch wa-s by- far the mnoreira. portent, he thought had not been sufficientlv attended to. WVith re. spect. to the first, he -as sulre every one wou;ld aclmit that it wasinost desirable to ascertaini, not so imuch whether a breachi of' the house's privilege had been coinmilitetl, as whether it was expedlient to vin. dicate their ; becatuse in point of f'act breaches of privikeitLerc committed every hiour. Allusions were constantly niade-Tche speeches in thie louise of Lordis, which, for the puarpose of' evading the orders of the house, wer spoken of as what passed elsewvhere he thought it would be much better that they sisoida be openly alluded to, than that such nieans- should he re'sorted to. Le t the hiouse,however,never forget that the'whole of this Arose from a breach of its privileges attwhich the housRe itself connived hr permitting the pu~blication 3f its debates. Ie agreed with hisright lhon, friend that. with all its incoveniences, hit oald be better for the house nnt to ex' ercise its power to present this practice; hut that it frequsently pro. duced mis,chief, the preset iiinstance wa a pregnant proof'. A n hon. gentleman was represented as having made a speecch, containing an attack upon a nobole end learned lord, and this representation,iwis cir- culated, not only througbout tie emi~ire. but wherever thetrnglish languiage w:-.s spoken). The suppose charge, was, thiat a noi,le and learned judge had pererted thle law with a view to the disparage. ment of aniother judge. U'pon what ground was th e publication of the dlebates permlitted ? Because free and unrestricted discussion was of the first importance ; and betause, if anyv false statemrents should he miade, the opportunity of contradicting them might be in.- medliately afforded. In this instance thie statemnent hiad been false, (uninten'tionally so,he beilieved,on the part of the newspaper) ; hut it would surely be the grossest tyranny if the publication of debates shiould be permitted, and no opporeunity of reply giv-en to the per.. suns attack-ed. TrIse privileges of the house were held, not for the miembers of'the house, but tor the liberties of En4lanil. Thie lhon. anld learned gentleman (Mlr. Scarletti, who bad lately spoken, had said, with great trath and animation, that any attacks mighlt he enl- dur'd,bhutthiose uipon anbhonourabieTnan's character. If thelihouse connived at a practice by whichi it appeared, as in the present instance, that the 'characters of individuals miight he attacked, how could it prevent his pleading not guilr" to or totaly enyng he hare? henan honourabl9 memnber of thishous' pdlisled aapeehi wichIfe hiad deliveredi in that hous, te curtof aw eldtha itweelibellous, anti he was marie resonsble no fr pononcig iatspeech, but for afterwards niaingan ndiidul ue o it InThe case of 31r. H1ope. whio cs,ncei'e hisel attacked by an honourable mnember of the house, to whom he applied in consequence. if' thiat honourab!e mermber had brought the afflair berore the houspe, there couldI be no doubt that thev wonuld have t-oted AMr. Hope guilty of a breach of privi.. lege. Tlisecase ofl r. .'llenzies was diiferent, for he, liuttinz astatr.. meat in a newspaiper,.resorted to the e,iie meansnofco.ntradicting it, and throouth the mneans of the pbl~ic press replied to that state-enet. The rght,non. gent. then rea fro. the :tournals th eouino the kouse which released Mr. Meazics 'froll further attendance. \i'ith reference to the statement in the nciwspaper, which certainlY imputed expressions to thle hon. and learned gentleman which he had' not used, he (Mr. Peel) could only say t his--that lie be-lieved the~ misstatement arose entirelv from sni'tak'r, for as the subject was a technical one, it was very clifficult, e-xcept for professional men, to n~~~ngs~~~ k ~ ~ ~ c o rcomlp r W m ' i. was, unde suc cicamsance exeediglyeasLy tnot to be etcurate. If the on~andleared ene'lma hisel-copared the diffrent news- papes i' wich hetpurorte tobe is speech appeared, he wvould have oundthatthatpartcula parof t ws not correct:ly reportedl in any f tem.Wha wastheaccsaton,and sebat the defence ? The Lord Chaclo ad been represented, in effect., to have flagrantly~ violated th atoPrlaent made in 1713 flr h is own pam ticula'r court. Nowe, in that act there was nots wora said about the signa- tur-e of counselI; anid the accusation was nothing less than a clir-ct charge of Ihis having wilfiully evaded aspecial act of Parliansent.'Was it not, under such circurns6tices, he wtould not say necessarY, but natuah,ur he Lrd hanellr torefte uchan imiputation? 7And in wat ay ad h due i? Thse erehiswords-"1 That as it had ben rereseted tat te peron wo sat here did maischid.-', by heaingcerainmoton wi.'ut he igature Of, counsel.-thar wa's to sy wen mtios hd ben mde o discharge an order of' the Vic&6hacelir. r th Mater f te Rolls, thlat such motions had been broughmt on withiout the signiatuire of counset.-he hiad only, eo state. btho having been in this Court since 1778, whben.. e-ver a miotion had been masde before the M1aster of tuec Rolls, whiich he had refusedl to allow, or whichi he did allow, and uipon an application. to the Chancellor to vary what the AMaster of the Rolls had donc, ortto de,~troy is altor!erher, and so again, whenever a motion had been miade before the Vice-Chancellor, and counsel had beeni of opimuon that the mnotion had been, improperly granted or dis- charged, the party had always, in all those cases, been at liberty to move ag:ain., with a viewv to ret the matter righ t; and if the -d7ne.. cure of counsel. were necessary toi alter the practive of the Court 'a's it hiad obtained since the perihd he had mentioned, all hie couldi sav' was, that he had not a right to tax the King's subje?ts in thlat way." Could any- thing be miore moderate than th~e voncZluding remark. of the sentenice which he had just readl ? so0 far', there could be nothing more tempierate. Could contiioun flesh and blued bear an impltia-. tdon of rhe nature alluded tus, without resistance? The pimblicationi of any speech delivered ini thiat hojuse was technically a breachi of privilege;, but the practice. however infoninal, prevailed ; atid often becme he ubjctof reference. Was it not The practice of judlges to rotct rommriarpreenstio te pocedins f their, courts? lie kew tat Lrd Hadwice,upn proouncng aparticular ecci. sion,had uequivcallydecled,~the twsoeo the chief duties' of ajude nt t allw hs jidiialproceedings to be misckwn- stred.iiehadsai, tat her wa em on duy mreimportant inl a court of justice, than to have its proceig e ih with the worldl. The next setence in the speho h odCacellor to set himself right.wa that of which thhonoutrable and learned gen- tleiiani ptir'elpaliyco t&nd it was t.hit"`W'ith respect to appeals and relsearings, it wa.s supposeti thasr he lied lieardthem on 'new evi- dlence, azfd thereby, brought fdiscredit on soine ~mart of the court. It was en utter falsehood." Now.. with n'rrference t6 that Sen..' tence, he entered entirely, into the feelin-s of the b'onouiable andl learned gentleman (M1r. Abercrornbv). On agreed that the reflection. couldI not possibly to attach him (ticar, liear); but the question ie- would ask seas, did any of.these termns constitute in themiselvesF a breah of nrivileg(i? Hie 'wss not PrePared to say that the terms used were fit and teniperate, but lie conteoded that this strong and vehement. denial of ma charge did i)ot constitute a brea:dh of Plijyle-ge. Ilie k-new that technically Any allusion to speeches delivered.witbin thiu wails of Pirliamemt, wee a breach of privilege; but lie a~gain in'- sisted that strong terms of' deniial, under whatever excitemenit, did. not on that accouint constitute a Parliamentary offence. Suppose that his noble and learned friend, instead of u,,ing the phrase " us- totr fidsehdod.".-had said "1extre%iely erroneous ;" in that case, lie was uit sue tey oul neer aveheard the present mnotion. (Hea.) o dubtthe xprssin ws etirely misapplied when it was poitedat he on.andleanedgen. Ir. Abercromby), and coula was always; competent to red te ev'dic'ie-i h as, though it was not read in the court below,ete ytecu~lo the ju]dge: farther than that, the.courtdinog.Onap it 'only read what had been read in the coutblw anthtpcie follwingtwoor treeline, whch ere bjeted o-"Ther'etore, realy,'bfor thng 'wre sorepesnte patialalyby gentle- men ithgows o thir tics, heyshobi s lasttake care to-e acurte,foritwasther bsinssto beuo." He (AMr. Peel)' cleenets of 1ptcewelinence in. their profession,, end he ws-s quite persuaded that his noble andl leatrned friend would not have used the objectionable tvords, lietd he, not beenl at the insuuant urder great irritation fronm the imputationg which he stmpDpsed had been levdlled at him. The tefms " vith'gowns o0 their bfacks," were, not meant to conveY any pe.sonal refiition-th,ey amoun'ted merely to -m pro. fessionaidesignation of the t-ogti, which *as the costumc 6f, the courts. He was sure th'en, that th.re' 'as nothing-in the particular expressions; which dearly were,the emriation froni excited and-ir- ritted feelings, that calletl for the interpdiRition of the-arnm of Parr. liame't-upon a question of pripilege. IHe mnustabsolutely'deny.tbat the Lerd Chancellor hbaever intendea to intinidaste any gentleman in his couht from purauittg -wbatever liarliamentavy ditty he lnght think expedlont or just. Indeed,' the honourable and iearnea gen_ demsae.opposite,- wbo was 'a distiilguislied' ornament of etlie Court-"of Kin's Bench (we believe Mlr. -Scarlett), d'pl -t> Lord' ChanceUor, sie' 'justice to say, that he bai ' altay4- recsivdd from him .r6aes of personal courtesy, although thattleern gentleran -wassnever i silent auditor during those" discussioni,w*liclt particularly referred to tbe unoble and 'learned lofsitS cour't- ind,eei,, during all those discussion8 the gentlemen opposste spoke -f. the Lor'd Clts.ncelor's courtusy. and that theg only ngs'tat<$sepi sii,n. on public groconis: isa firbtd'hef ws, tha( the e isoafj. Wgre used on the spuf'of the' omennt,tanthathowe grtsep'ght wisk totaltertlieir supposed apphication, they - vincea no ustensi.in -t.. ever-'to %iolate anye o the ri;zhts- ot rivilegestf that"l4puse, ati4' most 'confidenthe wa.s-,that nothing laeremote rom.the radof th`e- ord O4bolon bocestt as aty itentionn-cutWey- i ,7 igi1 . ormcng tQr3y protletpi iA t'n ite eobn,ance of atuy ptiblie or i0ar1afleeitaty, diltY. (I1ear. ihhad aliready argued that the words alluded to tdid iolt tiece-ssarily mgova?e any parlianteentary offence and above all, that they nevet COuld bays been intende-d to intimid3ate. H-e Was sure, therefore. U'hattnader sucac- circumnstances, the bouse wouldI not feel itself caUled lapOn to tabe a ste which, eveni in the mind of the right hon. gen. tieman opposite (M r. Tierney), mnust be followed by difliculirie `-hth' he adnmitted he couldI not foresee, and dlid not make even oem atturmit to solve. $ Hoanr, liear.) ilir. TIERi\Ex raid, in exillanation, that wlhat hQ had said wat - llitis.that he saw nio difficulty in th,e adloption of the present mlotion. -but afterwards he wished to Icave the future consideration to thai "-I of e%olanation of whiichi it might be susceptible. They' might. untrder su~ch circumnstances, have the mneans, of iteing informed that Bt aSttack wzhatever was intendled or contemplrrted upon their privileges. i=o the riart of the nobile andi learned lord. Sir JAMES MACINTOS H declar-ed, that if this -motion wern sojected stuch reiection rmust he deemed to be one of the most fatis' blows ;bid h7ad ever been inflicted utpon the pirivileges of the Floust OsfComnionr. and thirough thema, on the constituxtion of Parliament (H4ear, hear.) The riaht htomi genit. (Mr. Peel), after the manner o a Practised logician, had raiised inferences fromn the motion syhichi byntO means ra'ranted, when,fairIy and rationally considered. Thi Meirtttn was, in plaini termis to receive' the necessarv evidence respect, iaiZa clarge whiich was admitted to be a breachi of the pirivileges o Parcliament. a'ggravated by a fabse char,,e upon an individus Mmheter of t)-at bouse, rind still mnore aggravated by its plait tendenlcv to intimidlate the genitleinen of rtoe bar, who hiati seat,. iherei.to detro the high indoencrdetiee of an elevated pro fi!Osionn and parricularlve wsenr in the exercise of any parlia. rnentarv function,. He'said diti from a seere of duty to tha Pro`ession nf whit-h he a once the honour of being a m'ember- a prof'ession which could not exist as litonourable the momient its itt JEpendence waisliYakcn (hear. Itiar). butt whchd, if this Tmotion wetq reectc&, becamre frtom that mToment in danig,r, anid exposed to) genee ras uspie-ion in ,the public miird. Tliteprecedent!, then, w,as bigwhlit micifistendency, if not Instantly put down. was to ~lace th. nrefession DI- rhe law oirion a precarious', anti miserable, anti isyrace fal di'pndOncc utonl thel judges, of' ie couirts, which must annihilat all scsohhmi drtracter. (fitear.) Besides, what gave ris to this aunt-k upon thie independence- of this profession :,An inquir' mlio, tl-a cons,ttirorl and fiinc!ions of a routrt foT the admtinistratiot of' :ustce-an inquir. into the, constitution and adiminiistration o thy: Lord(hncto% own court-mn exorcise of' thie Lighest inqui ltwi-l d t,-f Parliamyenlt, to ascortaitn if that satne groat officer o the Court oIf Chancery dischargcd his duty- to the, public. ( Hear henr2i t-err they to tolerate that a judlge should apply ep.'noets e rocc,of falseiiood, and of colrsn-tess. to the language of meom her of Inazlia-zlent. who took par-, in an inquiry into thle systemn a the court of which he was h; iself the cortiollinst judge ? (flear hear.', Of what Use. he w. ul-l nzk, if this mlorton were not enter tained, was their mairrittee of coarts of jutstice, wvhich. accordin): to the oonstitution and practice of Parlaiaenit. was nominaLtei crve r session, sa,d at the hoeiji-ninz of each session ? Better feeling 'ere entertained by their fhrefath'4s. when, hb- the estakli.;hment c these committees, thecy thought theY had 'fen'ced rounti tlteir privi 'Wres from the attacks of authority however hrigh and reverenitial (t3car. hear.) Thie right hon. gen'tleman had said. tlrat if such trotion were prncc el_% upon. it mast have thne effiret ot' malkin, son-p, alteration in their m ori 'o tnlerating it;e pub1lication of thei rt'oceedir'g-s: b.l wvhRt reas5it was there to interfere with a practic :ehic!:e,st gteerv't liuj-ra. seful, oil tisi aiccottut ? Ilecaus ah~te,Ilorted the p,iiainof their debates, wvere they equally t, be sl-i rsi . etaeeeyattkr_o their Metxlbers, htme're so l%and cahlurniou,?~ (Hlear. hear.) Were thecy to submnit ii sile-e to t'-,ee mitaclka when erninatune fromi a Judge. one of th Kin's Si srcs. nd directed agoaj'?t an'hun. memberrfor the freeeox erch~eofhkilec_isla!ive functio sahe discharge of hil, public duts' (HRea.) He ou tarl den~~ied tiat there was ithe sitntlarity betweentlii <-se am t'iatlof 31lr. ller.zita.,which bfadlbeen quotedbyvthe rig,ht hon gentleman. This, tra a Far miore direct attack uponi tlte privi eC-ew~ Of: l'arkismrnt. and corninz fromi a qurarter well calculated t n-ake zhe i.rlpre-z,si,.n of its auithority tery sensibly felt. It was ii war t srcn ttathe n es.elnug was exclusrively intenideid c.C san- ry-e- L nevwspap~er. (IIcr:, heaRT.) The newspaper wor ao So.wn upaits usr!it-re nt wsapanr did not practice in the cour, ard. was no tmin;st er of the law e httt the individttal memnber li~ west- a ow. 1 so pt-attic'-, andc wa, thcrefoec the pers on agains who-n the attack was ruaanifesi1v directedl. (Hear.) But it was ad \Voul.l 1-on bz as cruel as to dlety to a puiblic functionary wh, was rmtriprescritrd the right of sAf-vindicatioa ?e" God 'forbii hae shnuid ki en atre ruin that inherent rig.ht :ito should allow scud a man overy rtt of" vin.1irastior,:. bttt was it too muc to require e himi fisst to arscetin from the party who could1 best give him the in, fornrctti-on. whaMt s`ea_ tic- ri3l chiarre'e of which be th6ught he lIa, been made thle ob;:,rt, before lie took adl he had readl for grantedt, an imputed fal"heo, 1. and wilfuil falsehood, to a man of hionour. r-,ineipie, and' chatrarter'? (firer, hear.) Suppose, in private lift r'taz such an ocrurrnac, lad tak-en place, would it not be thoughi fzuilty, unfair, and tirprudent, for a gcrttlinan at once, upon a moe onnuthorn- sit-et ~ito s-2; -,he i to bie aifacE. and to pre reecd to :ho litxt cNtreuli'ty (di watlr was the imputation of tnti f2Aeoo.i) iitnu ssetaiin.rfromthepaT-tv whiaEt bundationther wws for the 'h, -ee. th -rlual the MLiUiom of some romnion frientd,c tbrc-,ozit at', nib. r rhannel of conmitunicatiop or intercourse in tbi rrc.urmnr Cran ~to t'n- By i ttt, odlt of precipitating oTlThtce, there we n pWrx-nuni- Ltre( a narty ofjrtstif.ing his character, or ox b (~~~Iear. near ) The righlt hon. gentlcrma 0Mr. Peel, i ad ip':~x Ietrts 1)1 his life in a country conceivedt ise riv.rkahv srartve upoln pomini of honour, andl forwardI in) re ieatnung tna3ct: arid wa-i he prtepared to h,ay that he wettid( justif',' a, rawI hiii. whc. ha. just go0t tvr of c-olour,, the sa-re violeu.c andl ireci;.itancy -Ahich he noa'jiaihe in the L1ord Chancellr (tie: her.i ItV_% n --'l 1"whre rsasl thec noble and leorne lord, to h':fli:nat-l: ?-" Hr we-Aid e.nrwer_` arn where btr on trhoi rets-. (tle.r. hear)Ant where elsa he ka a le-li ate't- ~:snit Ha 'ne !m other place than tb. deeneert-scat ? lills fie ne.L hi's 'a-- in rite other Hiotta-c VParilianiet ? H C' rlot ht' fril!'s and collerrenes in tlh l-,we 1ire'- of Pt rIjimnent to explain or vindicate his5 contduct WaV, the bolAl 'loaanc-'ilvr of1 Erghi d so feetily prozided vwithi th mra-ins of er!er-c. :that he bad no 'o';Cc to utter but from the judlg maea.t-sea'--no Nr5teaeta- o hun l'v tieso gratit'tde and honout th[,rough who's. ha --tl L -ov 0,1,,- a, , n, t rtttttt c -t. ytti. tie -tart an h-i' the jtustification1 ? CHeat bonyT.) ti-l"at Wi--id thC 1,a7Ud fharcell'-- himrself a-tv of any othc moar iho I-ad so s-antttn!y h-A rashly a's.i;Al the chiaracter -of an o.her? 'Thm was condun:t wruci woulId be deemeda inrmarkshyI v-i inum the circle of pt-irate life, but it amotinted to a 'faul Cf far gzrattm r.niu when comotnitned bv a grave personagei rehitrhest sntatin of sobeQr din7-ir.tv wcerein example of calm an. relib-ra!ixle rti.ln isln-l l.a- o',It to be fttUnd. (IJear. Thz hoa. ani t-nre! ntletunI (the rfolicizor-General) has intrc J-cdd several tlames znad avrIrtimenrit be wany oi extenuation of th I.,li edChar-celloar rezduct: but thtis was not the stae of' the pre ie-mt t la atle the. iTi-i:tra'it-it operation of any extenuating to-pi could propcrls- be lu-ged-it coluld nor be urged a- a reason againq 'qu:r1 :n t~sdrt i,- istance. attitouto it, niight be tairly applicable i ittatdilo ostliiit:nat ;udirdcnt. or to sho'w that no jdmn ta nag-in to be irr:`1-ctcd. 'All tiune topics in mntttga'tan wore, therefore tretilature at ilTt-SePt and acre u!nnecca:sq:rY aned imrproper to be in trodueed at thec out-et as bars to ino-iry. T'he right honour able rentkmllsst (Mr. P'eel) seemed to thinkl thazt the Lox- Cl,ancelior 'irs juseified .I thte conyra wvhiei hie kad gut-sued bfecauSe t- e hfMOTne-ble sa:d learned--Ientlemran (Mr. Abercrosabeli &dt nor, oni the rtl-nine after e late dlebatc. and st-bile he swas pirob bit-. absr'e inlitI prafi-sational C0uaror,1 clet, collate, anti cot-n pare. aitit critic., acrit-acs-. the reports publitlhed in all tire tsra ez-q papers of his speech on'1 thcprevious night in the FHou,se of Coin mon-,. 'Ind at thoe momnent point r-ut Which part was tiglht an4j ivhkil w-as wrong. This wasa mostetrndia requlisition lor one mom her rof Pa-!iamnitro to. miake of anc-thcr. atd-idrertainly was not the wa' in whiich such a czave as Iri ougt to be met within the walls ofthi I-luseof ommns.The renl and onlt qulestio, 0.a this-had nerneaber a rtgtrt to) eo.uplain ofua breac!i of priv-ilege for Uris, violton attack uipon his itarliamnifrtary- condluct?Ha Iaay aYdemati cibeet mnade to ascertain ushesher the atretek as Called for? IVa_ thre attack pronounced from thle i-dig-lirent0-5e.t and had a mannift-t tenriency. coinirg 1mm sutrt, authority, to aff-ect the cont -thte inic-at-air,pErthsps stheqsubsi'tttie.,nof rite jsrindviual who wta, -as ca ' _cul~-ulto cc:np:orrriac- (flat, hear.) If none of thesi irnrroe 1sit-t and ipfere!nCes could he dettiei, iwould tlto house aadop m~at course which t.he public would look, upon ts a declaration agaiirn ir.squiry-. b,eau-e the- charge weas bro-aghtr against the! Lord Chancello ,,f Enrland_z declaration to deter ifroui givinig anyinviformation h-, thos prsa onls- who wore calculated to give -it 'whenever an iri quirv waszt called f'sr resrecting the exrerise of thejiudicial function of hito=r- eusrrt?Thcho-a,e of C'omimons had been enigaxel atdtlferezn z7-mes dei,triF,n-ngr y hit-dredl years in various st,ruggles with theUrowen azd had6 conie-out of Oflm with various fortuane. Eminent lawyershit Neen Activr:ly en_aged in many of these conitests, andl t-hough th c-oum-t ofteti pro-ed tite strongzer i!I tile streggle, yet, on till -a-b,ole, the nt-silt eas favourable to the privilegzes and security, ant ultimnate happliness otrLhe p.aple. Throughout ti-t whole of theei -erelcs lVnJrdofanv t'tet' veer beforc her f n age soyc umpuou oritaring as to arraya cLspirit otf inhult an~ itmhaionsrins these whoadvocat-d a course of inquiry into the condition of irisoWI tolurr?~ (fleer, hear.) Le,t the hoist- rej'ect tile motion, it' they mean radi,drate the high, func-tions of Parliament. Let them lej,et it i rho'v-mmrart to proclaimr to the countiry,that no aubsc is for the futror a-s be corrected. Let them reject it if tjiete meant to put on recor~ that no lawyer is in future to dare raise his voice agairist thle do-. nrines or condauct of the Judge in whose Court he shall happeni t( prcts. Har, hear.) Iid'eed the gtntlemen opposite had said. =btteattack was hartailese and inapplicable, because his hon. an~ learned friend (Mr. Ablercromby) possessed a character too higl- to be aiffeceed by sl1nder ; but was the examiple of this neode of' at. tack., noth-invas vffiectZnng die rising y-ounig men of talents at th( bar, who solely depended, upon rhoexe-ercise and development or their profession-il energies for famne atid sipport?Wr te ob caught t har the honest march ofitellect, repressed enough, perhaps, i-r poverty, w -s to becopenly impcded hy the stern vniceeol'authority IVrthey to b-e told that they must no lottirer, except at the expense ofr I their professional intest, join in any hbonest strugirle pl o-wer for t-e liberties of their cou'ntry; and freedom of its best tinmr0s bitt thlat thev nWst become, iff thely wisitedl to be pro- rct-d or ent-tarateed in tliieir pursuits, he reads' instrumnents. of a's- titority. and mne,an sycophanLs or' the juidge' before wvham they prso.(Hoenr.) Thi's degraldation once attained-t..he revereic'e tsr the indepndence of the batt being once sweptar vav a y he bold-t ataittes ot power it required little saraCity to foresee the destruction ofthrBritish co'2sttituon-_the subversion of rll that was free in this counitrv. (Lona(crics ot - Hear.") Mr.'WIVNN said. that whatever differenceof opinion prevailed in their viCe of the rsult of this motion, there was one point upon which they were all agreed, and it was, that nothing had been said bo tht hon. and learned zent. (ittr. Abercronabv) tojustify the lan- prsage which had been irnputesd to himn: but he nevertheless felt that if whatwa said did notjusOify thelanguage ewhich ithad after- wzjr&s called fortl. it certainly went some way it) excusing it. He had Ioic attended to qltestions of breach of-privilege in that house, and hecoald rot clAss, rte presert case amonazthat number. Mle was sw rertiit hn enight be exposed to an imputation ot'having diminished his 2eal (hT the maintenanceoftheir rights and privileges; but lie re- minded the hobnse of'hi uniform and expressed znxiety to sectire the ,,ermanent enjoyiymetiof those rights and privileges, by setting due bounds to their.ertiaet and taking care not to Cxtend them to cases which weoe triver inftendted for their application. That they were hound enmaintain the fullawt freelom of debate- in the House of Commons, was a positon which could not be caUed in question; b,tt he could not hold that the same principle of indernasity was to be cstendcd to evr tyepresentation of what was said to have fallen from themn which pcrsons out of doors should ptiblish and circitlate rcu,ghout the world. (Ifear, hear.) It wats precisely with these fr'eiaj,s that it'-thc cas.e o? tan honourlable member (;Ifr. Cree: ver), wcho outicted of publishling elsewhere a speech th:ch he einit-9ca h2ss.age in that house, he. was one of those wlho in. e-og-cvj itbem~o dcterjaue, aulmst by an unanimous vote, that that tivSiet -Ot l ott breech "tlheif pt-iviWeges. The highest 'odi- rntitjrt al Pt?E? trthihm) uport~ that d9ctipe anMdja-To , P,fF6 to 'Eaye once said, that ;lthough he rar;ht, 1fal it hIdt duty to dfhp1oy Ianpslag- hI' t1sa hduge, in tls Iuse of whieb 'his privilege would protet himb, yet lie could also. think, th&t if any printer dared afterwards ti5'ttiblisle that language, be would by go a~oins render himself a fit ob3ert for prosecution. It was true that the LOrd Chancellor mighst, in thie present mcas, have instituted a prosecution against the printer of dhe newspaper, but would that bave been a wise and dignified mode of procceeling ? On the Dice of the language attributed by busy of re- ply to thei noble anid learned lord, there was a imaniWest qu-alification: he egn b syin "thaben rprseted to me." ie dldnotsay wher, orby wom; herewas o diectpersonal alluision to axcvhlon. membr, silllestany esie avwedtoutech anv of"thseiraclenox.. leegedpriilges Th ho. ent oposiehd sid,cht whatshould ul- timaelybe one,wasoneqaceion; ad tht wuldbe hereafter die. posedo~f;but tat wat wa nowto bedone,.s anothetr, sind a dis- tinct one. Bu h atWs twsthe same questionl; for if this iptio eeare o hyms eaminevvitneAsesagndgo into cviA denlce cit thirc brinodrtinirc whether the words attribIrt6d Ito tbe nobleadlearne odwr ever uttered by him ? (Hear.) He (MNr. Wlynn), for one, would vote against thjis preliminary in- Iquiry to be made as te whether the words bad been so uttisred. (Hear.) WVhere wvas thecorpits. delicti in this case ? WVere the house to inquire whoc had comti-tted an offence, before thiey knew wheEher an c offenice had yet been coi-mitted ? Would the'y put any rman upnhstri-l for an offence, if the case shouldl be that whlat d dbenconie by thie individuial was in truth no ell'ence at all ? (Hjear, hear.) Thei honourable andI learned maember for Peter- berotigh (M1r. 'Searlett) hadl discov?red a mode of.acting that ough tohv 'enaopted by the noble -person in question, whichl to hinm (Mlr. Wlynn) did appear the very oddest, and the most objectionabie thiat could ha-e been suggesited. His honourable and leartiedl friend thiought, that the Lord Chiancellor, upon seeing the o&Fnsive mnatter that had been attribuited to thie lionecurablemorn- ber for Cainc, ought to have sent for that hon. and lear'ned gentle- man-a mnember, of his own bar-ant ihave asked hinm whether he -had used the terms that he wasz represented to hiave used. (Rlear.) W~hy,hiad such a course been adopted-had such a messuze been sent to the honourable and learned ge~ntleman, he himself w7ould have been tile first to protest that it was the stranaest proposition in the world. Was it ever before lieardi of, that a Lord Chiancellor slionilO send f(ir anov horiourablc memiber of that house, and ask' him, out Iof it. v. hetlier ne had used sucls and ,ucuh words in Parliament ? ladl suclh a question been put to the honio:-:rabhe and learned s3ism. bar foir Caine, anld by him answered, lie hinsceif would have been liable to a rots of censuire, for having givetn the explanation required iby thte L-ordi Chanicellor'. Withaout any, ref'erence to forms 11os cases, he (Mr. Wlynn) ivas quite convinced that no case could be pro,duced in whichn a simple denial byvan indlividual, of a charge thatI had bern off'ered against himi in public, and had been circulated te all conters of the eniiiire..-a simple assertion that that cliarge was Ifalie-bad ever been consideredI as a At suibject for the exercise of the privileges of that house. The right hon. gentlemran concluded, by expressing a conviction, that if ever the liouse should think fir to in.. quire whait wrords in a case of this~ nature had been used, it wouild in. flict the g-reatest wouind upon tliose privileges and uponriste dignity of Parliament that they could possibly sustaini. (Hear.) .1 fr. SCARLElTT,'in explanatiol, bsrehe lhad said that it would have bern tiatuiral to expeet that the Lord Chancellor should have sent-in a private and confidential muanner,for the hon.-and learn. ed nmember for Caine, and( have askedI him whethier he could have Iuttered tht word-, attributed to himi, as they seemed most extraordi. nary in the mouth ofany one acquaiinted with the practice of the Chancerv Court. (Hlelir.) Mt. WV. NVUiIAAMS confessed that, generally speaklting. lie wa, not very friendly toi the exertion and enforcemtent of the privilege.l ot thlat hiouse : and during the tiose he had had the honour of a seal in Parliament, he lhad wimnessed several instances in whiich bh thought they hail beern so exerted, under circumstances of considers. ble inijustice to individuals. But in this-case, the question was, no' so mTuch whethier the house wouild enforce its privileges, as whether, wvnen a grave charze was mnade against one of its members bv an in. dividuat holding the highest judlicial situiation in the country, th( hiouse would not inquire Whether or no a breach of those privileges~ bad been commuitted ? To hiim (Mr. NV. WVilliams) it seemied per. fectIy clear, that if the house mecant to art consisteatty with its for. maer rnceaedings in m-atters of' privileLe, it must go oin to the vat( which th,ey were now called upon to give. (Hear.) And this seaerne tnhe moreedigs bl couirse, because it woutld give the hiigh personagc i usion an opportunity o' conming dlown to-mnorrowv, and o: stating throuvr o-efin fhs hti wlhat be had said hn intended no .itzaek uipon any person in that house. (Hear, hear.: IIf such a message shoold be snt to the house through the mnouth o; souse indlividlual to-noerrow. atier the question now prOPOsed for ntb calling witnesses to their ba'r should have barn carried, anid whei ticlielOcsewaL;d lie prepa-redtcogo into theirevidenee, he(lhr.Wil- hiams) would certainl.yvote fortlie pos;tponement or re.cinding ta. we unders,tood thiebhon.genitleman) of'all further proceedings in thi rbusdness. (Hear.) But in the meatsitime unlessithey neanitto sunr render evs yprivilege of the flauise of &mrnsons. thev could no stop, where 'they nowe were. He did not, on thie present occason, mneat toenter at all into tIme merits of the case before the house; becusi that Would be to prejudege the question which they might afterward, have a niore proper opportunity- to tietertiline. All that hie, as at humbl a dm idel inht citiurable house, wvas at present quialiflee to a-s lv.s, thiat a grave and seriouis charge had been niasih ag~ainsii oQie offt nimb~ueers, of having preferredi a false accusation against di.itcnguisi'-u-- personage. -Now, uniless they wecre preparedI tt: st.rrc d'1r to every loan its the country the right and posvei of at isma rting uipon tl.eir proceedin'gs in thiat house it .1-ny i y thiat might teens rreet to him, he couldI not hMl1 tlinh.king thiat thley eught 'lot to overlook such an attack upon one a- their hod, merel because it proceedled froni so highi a quarter I(Hea- h-ear.) He0hr. Williayms) hadl tisat nigist heardt a right ho, tiourablege.ntlenan opm,osite-wh'oui he was arcustomed to hear or al=ujcts. with pleasure-wvitlh great surprise and conceem. fiI ceti lyad not expected to he-ar that right hon. gentlemian, whil, lie oppo'sel t1he Yoction, enforcing, upon general principles, the pri- ilgsOf tibi tct111e lo a degree that seemedl intronsisient WiLh tlis eMsIA- ution. F,r his own tiart, tiotough unfriendly in general ti their e`nforcemnent, he~ should tiot be waittin to support such a mea- sulre on an occasion whiere he thought the hiouse ho'und to assert it! privileo-res. And if ever suchl all occasion. offered, it was when at inttplltatioli of this. Stature 'as i;ast upDo an hconourablo msAi,e0, ts -slo,v e-at,vcer. dluring tile t)eriod that he (M1r. William's I hlat been acquairted with him, it was irrunossible ed do too much ho none., aitdI witic-h rentlered him incapitble of advaticinig any thin1 that couild warrant the chiargre of falsehood. If they put a tirgativi .up)n this vote,.they woualdhe lit onessurrendering ee,er~ privilege a the hiou,se. If, orn time other hand, they, agreed to it, ~e meant tu pledige hnimself,' that shoultd the Lord Chanscellor to-Morrow, as main of hinour who had acted usonl the irritation of the moment, oi suppoingi himself to have 'Jean macla the objectofta false accusation sendI, t1hrough somne friend of his, a mes,sage to the hous,e, tdeciarint *that he liadS acted on his feeling,,s, and seas sorry for what had cc rurred. lie (M1r. Williamsn) shjould thiink thlat what wvas; due to tin Ichtaract.er of tuie house teas Obtained. Titey would thsen biLve assertet Itheir privileges suMfciently; bat tie thougilt they wouldl nor bejusti- 'ied, in that event, in taking any furthlir futrther steps Till tisi I hshlbe done, however, lie wasi for tile nieasures that badl becen re- cotumneided by hon. 'gentlemren near him. He buped and trustee that the house woutld on tills morfiots come to an tunaninmous vole.~ but ott the ilistioct urnderstatiding that they were to give tin Lo.rdl Chancellor of Englan4l an opportuniyo exlnficin and o stating, when he should be iriformed of what, bital=a ight passe IWithlin tht4se walls, (and, doubtless, lie was5 by that time aware o"it) Ithat wilint lie badh used in respect of the ion, and learned gentlensar :had beet, owing to the feelinils occaiioned by a wrong conception ot w hat hadl been statedi by that, lion, and learned gentleman in Paths,. ment. (Rear.) Mrl. ABERCRO.1B3' rose to replv, amidst, lottd cries of ques. tion. H-e wvonii( detain the house, he 'said,, buit for a v-ery few me. i wents. It niust be obviotis, after what hadl passed, and a.'ter all the obse!rvations that had fallen froim lion. members on thiis Occasion. that lie could have bitt little left to say. He must,in the firs place, tcc horiutrable gcntlememi (on both sidies'of tite house-honourable gen. tiecuen whio sat On the OPPosite benches. as well as thlose who sat -sousdh-mi do th"e jus%tice to say, that he felt obliged for teheit joint sufftrageq. in declaring their belief that tiotiling which lie (.1r. Abercrsmnby liad st4tedl ini the discussion of a forniier evening could warrant the sort Of anim4dversion to Which he h-ad been exposed (hear, hear) and lie concurred with those.hon. members also, whte halsi,that thle plipCr litat had been alludedl 'to by some. Idid not contain a true renresentation of' the nmatter, out of whicl~ tile animadveriion seas said to have arisen. lie had the greatest satisfaction inl finiding, that hie was suppileced by the un~ited isaff'eazes of both sijdes Of thd house, against an observation that had been made upon him in anothter quarter, of such a kind afid, tenden. cy. WVith respect to 'c'hat the house might fuirther do, he would onlv stAte (and with as match irnptartiAlity as a persoii somewhat in. teresteid thus far in the proceeding tiiaht'be supposed to speak) what Ithe-irounds were uponw wiclibaheitactared-There were twOo ur%seaope!n ito him::he ougihlt ihsve introdluced the question as arising,simply, upor, ataacinin which lie alon,e was the partyvconcerned; antiif hr had so representedl the case, he should not, posisibly, have concluded ivith stin't apoposition as thatrnowbefor5-, the hiouse; or licemigbm hiave introducedi it. as one eiiecting thleir privileges. Now it had ap. neared to him, tbat hecould nutistalethe case at all, without stat. zitg one thlat must be treated as a question ofp~rivilege. Anothet consideration, and a very Principal one, that influenciid him was-s sense of dutty to that professioni of .which he had the honour to be a meniber. Vsiewln`g the miatter its this light,-he had taken the ad- vice Of those bY whose- adivice he wasi generally guided. with sespect t o the course he should pursule in this business. He 'had adopted thtcours,e; and still remained Possessed withi the opinion ticat it was a judieious and a pncdent course. (IHear, hear.1 Hie should inak no bsevatin.insup ofto the motion before t?se house, but The cri'es ocf question" becoming very general, the gal.lery was cleared for a division ; and strangers were excluded for about ten minutes. On our re-admsisslon we found the rrmsbersn tobe:. For the mde6tiOnl-A es, 1 o2oNoes, 51 ajo.t 49. NEW WORKS AT THE HOUSE OF LORDS, ROYAL of ors nd PALACEs, &c.- Ir HERRIES having proposed a vote of 40,O001. so defray tbe penes f wrksandrepirsin public buildings, for the year 1824 -Mr. B3ANKES said, thtat in this vote hebeTdthtsm of the repairs now going oni h rei bobsrved ofthat somse were in-eluded. Heaine nldd0, ti e uepbulodo hehuca n ok at the Hou of Lords, with the new avenue, were also included in e .jNow lie coult not help taking notice, on this occasion, of the very unsa. tisfactory manner in which these aiterations had been performed. He wished, before the house canie to the vote, to have an opportu. nity of knowing what fuirther was to be dotie in respect of thein (hear)-and particularly how far the work of- destruction of those ancient and veiierablo inonuments of art, that once surrounded the House of Lords and the parts adjacent, was intended to be carried X (Hear.) lie wvasvery sure that had the house, last session, been aware of the mischlief that was to be done thev never would have sanctioned the proceedings of those, who bad demolished so much of the remains of 'he usost interesting edifices. Re himself had been a wvitnessof the demolition of a part of that old palace at lraest- mrilster, near thce House of Lords, anciently,ealled "- The Prince's Palace"-a fabric, the ruins or site of wfiich wvere now converted into something that he would reet mention, but that was not excus- able upon the ground eren of being necessary; yet these wreruins, the interest of which was connected with a period of some antiquity ans of much celeb,ity. The palace was of a time not later, he was sure, than the reign of Edward Ill, (Hear.). It was quite unne- cessary o desarry this very curious relic; because, without inter- fertng with any design that had. been in unison with it, it would have been perfectly easy to underprop what repnained of the- bWild- ing. (fleat.) He should be also desiraus to know wbat4.ad isen the expenses already incurred in that very sttange and annnialous bcilbing which was intended for the avenue of his M51ajesty to the EHouse of Lord8. (fleas-) This erection- only obstructed the p tire that was seceesis;y for else carrages of peers asd diembers of ratlisment-; atWas tsing of sue'h strange and abstord uropor- Lions, that it was impossible to look at-is withoruta'feelirig of divt Be should thswefore take tbelibertyofmovit an account of the xrecses incurre4Un51lc repairvQf-tbeeihdeitbuildin8 in and aboust hr R3ouse of LOxGz, anti of thc sgn;s extpeqded, witiha pofuion Atio wagte dpuhV'i toilto, iwi 4ii)k medsec tioW not less than a violatino Ie tasn~tia.. -,when-, tls - comnittdo came to the item reaietote ju* s&ftiee,Jnes~ultl hafe an- othr oepotuky f cUi~ teire~toiitoaimla'iubsbest. Ut had, howvever, uti wiht neep leieesv wb'r'sgoiuig on, by any inronvenieu ppoisnlsth dwhto s." te accounts %6e spo of, "esr. GREV 1B9NET- woui{AuPppejft tte 'niotiesi of the member for Corfe Castle. For h!s ~owa par., 1'ow'fev~, he Ohtli' wished that the honodrable seci6lary wofila jnfotmnthe conr. minitee! who the airehitect was, in iirderr-tliat the Puablic isnighis know lwhom to avoid. (A laugh.) WVhile heWisbed-that they:might nOt againf run the risk of, wastings'o much, md'niyj andof decldidly vies. latng evry hig lketaste, _he was equsaly ani5oiusa to know wIIQ overooke theplas for thesenlAtirations, ins orderthst sutch super- visos mghtnotbe ut agai i... req,"iistioii. -(A laugh. Mr. HERRIES hought that the honoriciibie memblerforShrews-. bu~y hd profly eprelssd aviish to be furnished'wiLh tiiiaccounta in qestin; ad he(11r. Hleritis) would endeavour to lisy'tbemn be-. fore he hoseinthecorse of tha.preseut sesstien. There .was alt accountof expensesattpresent incurred in these pollic,workes,amouont- inog to 10,8001., wh'Iichl should be furniished forthwith. M,r. GI. BIN NET *po still unisiiforhiee who Was the architect, anid who the members of the c6tiAishttee of taste, at the tim~e when his plans were furnished. (e4~lN~e. The CHANCELLOR of the EXICHEQUER confefssed thatt he ~vas not all surprised thiat this suhject should have attracted the attention of the hiouse. He did shThk it necessgary that for the fu- Iture somie alteration sbould take plaoei in th'e 'system upon which these works wcere carried on. The answer to the member for Shrewsbury mu -t be whiat his honour-abli friedanIelae nak ingthne question: the architect was Mlr. Soane-the authority ltinder whichi these alterations tookc p lace, the Board of Works; aLnd lie thought it very desirable that henc-eforwara the public responsibil ity! for aU works of this kind should be vested in the Treasury. TIhe fact was, that at present the 'Treasury was not responsible' tor these mnatters, and of course could not cdmtrol the hligh notions which the architect or the Board of WVorks might have, formed of the taste in which buildings 'of this kind shiould be crected. He conceived the proper duty of the Board of Woarks to be to take care that the old public worksi slhould be kept in repair, and that prpe ateriales should be provided for the new ones,. He would 7endeavrour to frame some system upon which thiere should be in that house some ofikeer like hlimself. responsible for what occurred in his dlepartment. aind uipon which the whole power might be vested in the Trea.-urv. Mfr. TENNYSO'Noheerye,i, that the ljuildingsg of the old palaeLe at 'Vcstminister were -almost sacred in this country, as the birth- place ogr abode of our early kings aind prInees. Thie hione member I for Corfe Castle had well, remark-ed that they seeinecl, all nowv de- voted to dlestruiction. It migtht be necesary to remove somne p.art for the new buildirngs caring on in thevicintity ; but what had become of the painted chame, about the ieauty of which so miuch had been sai , an hc a eanea so long unexplored? What was the chamratroftlie building.rai%q4 injits place? Could 4ny thing be more incoogruousjor nmoreinconsioent?JIieundersoocdit-wasiLSO the intention of Goetrnment to restrore rtb House4of Lords, which, ,by the by.was-abouttthe very finestmtooiin London. But in what tatewsiprpsdt rebuild the houase?-in the Gothyic, or the hrca e ri hon. gent. animuadverted in strong termns on the in- congruous absurdities thiat were manifested iii tlte modemn adtditions uf mnongrel Gothic evinced in the new entrance to the Hlouse of Lords, and expressed hiis obligations to the member for Corfe Cas- itle for bringing forwardathe matter. Mlr. HUM.E spoke of the condition of the Reeord-ioffice behinid Abinzdon.street. Havinf occason last session to consult somne records (wvhich it was al - very proper. should be carefully kept, if kep1t~ at all), he found it impossible to decipher themn, suchi wa hi ap wand neglected start. It was true the building was fire-proof, but the access to it was singularly mnconvenienL Himself and his friends wvere obliged to go,' single tile up a narrow staircase, between walls, that wcere seven feet in thic'kness, but little accommodlatedI f'orthe purposes of facility or convenience. The building; was, however~ co constructed, with stone stairs, that it was gIenIost inaccessible, and urtetoi unfit for public business:. He therFore caled on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to pay somne at- Itenitiorn to the subject, and to consider what plhan should be adopted to remedly the defects which he had pointed otat; because he was quite' ctrtnin that nothing could be more inconvenient than the pre- IMlr. CROKER agreed withi his right hon. friend that there oughit to be a responsible person in thatt house, answerable -as wrell for the nlan as for the execution of all great national work. It was not mnerelyr the expense which must attend thlis or any other work, nor its inapplicability to tbe purpose for which it was erected,btutaso thedis- grace which it mighit reflect on the national taste, that ought eq be conisidered by Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Taking this 'view of the slubject, he had aliways thought that the djecretion would be best lodged with the Treasuiry; and hie was glad to find that his righit honourable friend was o( the sa-me opinion. HeI was certain that, when this country saw therie was a real control over the erection of public works-whlen they saw that a system of good, taste was adhiered to-.the people wotild no longer allow themselves to be charged, as had hitherto been the caise, with niggardliness in gZranting sufficient funds for the construction of necessary Public buildings, because they would not wish to sanction the forRma- tion of a structure that would only be a nmonument of their own diszra~e. (Hear.) He had seen it stated las the newspapers, that that tine ancient edifice, tho p9inted chaniber, was abouit to be tlk-en down-that building wlitich, 500 years ago, was denominated peril- *lustre in every part of Europe (hlear , andI whaich had'eve been vwiewed a-s the most perfect and beauti I aspeelimen of art which that day afforded. (Hear, hear.) lt was the oldest of our natio-nal works, and united within itself the grandeur of architecture with the elgn h fpinti. rle should feel a very great degree of'regret if thi buldig wi ,50 years. ago, hil4 been celebrated itt Europe, should nuw%be consigned to deatructisa. He understood fromii a en. tleman in all respects c-alculated to give an opinion oti the subject, thath painting and buildings were perfectly surprising-thatLthe wails,at least, were as good ancl as firmn rs if onv'built yesterday. It would givec himi the greatest pain if thisaTinciet building were -0ulled down for the purpose of erecting one of thoiet odern,rigw.-arr which meze raite&iri a mnonth an'd th pasbmer 6oh5Ire fighould be exceedingly rejoice if he heard fromj his -rigbt hon. frien'd, that no coinseht would he given to thle destrtecribn of this ancient build- ing, unless some better reason tItan any, whiclb-hehad yet h-ears were aIdduced in support of that prdceeding. Mlr. HUMEB inquired whether, nt. estimnate now before the com teehte expenditure for the repair~ bf St. 3a'mes's Palace was includd And if not, in whiat entimattit would be brought under the consideration of Parliamnent ? Mlr. LIERRIES answered, thai the ,ienpiditurre referred to wa,% not included in that estimate. ~ Sir J. MACINTOS H said, the system.n Qf undlistinguishingdte- struction, with respect to ancients royal palace, and othier venerable buti1d:n'gs, which hiad been so prevalent O5? late, was npt in unison with the feelings and sAentiments of Englishitien, ansi was certainly carried a great deal too far. (Hear, hear.) The most venerable re5 mains of antiquiity were now removed wi-th very.little -regret or ciu sideration. The palace of Westtninsee6 wa? of very great antiqui- ty, and ought to be held in peculiar re'verence, in consequence of the scenes whieh in former times, had taken p lace there. It teas there that thie co'nzstitution of this country wasi.9nally settled : tlbereloae it ouMght 'not to be touched. The pulling down buildings which had been the scene of such important and interesting transactions wvas almost sacriiegiouts. It tentded to destroy national feeling and moral sentimient, It was calculated tow~ ta t u enrto which ought to be cheirished foZ what hat& been eb well done By our ancestors, adid which had been left by them as a sacred legacy -to their posterity. (Hear.) For upkiards bf 300 years the conference betwveen'the two houses of Pariamnent....betwfeen the t*o chambers Of' thle legislature, consisting of members of a grave deliberative as- sernhly.were hield in the paintetd chiamber; and he should greatly lament if any profane hand were sufferedw PuUl it down. Hie could not help adv~erting to the new buildini~ whicfi noew. showed its face so ~~udenrtly in the face of Westruinster Abbey. That building was !MdGrecian-for iso other reason that he could conceive, but.that lit was nor Grecian. (A laugh.) It was n6t English-it wras not na- tional.-.so it had been deriomninated Grecan. He only regretted, if Ia necessity existed for the erection of., the building in question (the new Courts), that 'it shbuld have bean carried to the North entrance of Westniinster.ttall, which ha-d been so well restored, but which was now disgraced and deforined by the contiguity of the new struc- ture. As an hon. friend obstervea to hlim, that buildcing, if it were Grecian, mnust he 'of the Bmtrlan ordler, supporitng such an order to exist. (Laugh tar.) He, howeyer, intecadof calling.itGrecian, must denominate it "~most barbarous." MVr. HERRI'ES observed (as wd understoodl) thiat, the vote now- before tecmeniettee had nothing to-do with the roy~alVpalace of St. JaMe'S', a charge on the civil list of 40,0001. beting appbiable t6 the repairs makin .intat 9uarter, Ay. HIUM IN aid,hbas o tinior Wu, looking at thie sitate of those buildings, that it would be setter to pull 4owis the whole of them at (once, and to erect anew palace. . 'We-ought tobhave apalace suitable to thiedigiiity sifthe monarch ofthiis country, instealot sutTering our- e ft. blaughed at by every statebin,Europe, assmot havig a building fotfr the royal residence, 'Ths so.st petty sovereigns abroad were Possesse'4 of much finer buildin a-uie ev'ery respect then tho-se in which outr sovereign was lodged, leie ula'poe be extravagant, but he would. have a palace, if properly'ercced, as so honouxr to the country. It would be much better to 'tAkedolwinSt. Jame-s'palace, insteati of squnanderingX away large 'sumA far tastelegs repis The CHANCELLO OCthe EXCHEQUER s4id; that as to the palace of St. James, lie could niot see tb'at the tepairs'oight to occasion any reproach for want of tas te, sitiue -the national, character of that builaing was entirely preserved ; 12id ha: thou&h tkat,which had been done would be found of mnaterial advantage tr, the ptibslc, so far as they were contcerned, and dldsebtleas they were croncerned in hiaving a prorper access to the royal pat"de (IHear,) He did not dis- ag-ree with resPectto what had-lbesen saidl & the subjectofrtoyal palaces inltown. He admitted that there was not any ryal resietnce in boa., don at all cowinensutrAte with the wealth of the country or the dig. nitY of the Monarch. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman muat, how- ever, be aware, that to build a palace. on a commensurate scae of mnagnificence, would create a very great expense. (Hlear -hear) Besides, it sliould be recollected that those alterallons at St. .lames;s were comnmenced under circumstaees extremaely diff'erent fronrthese which Prevailed at the present moment; and fie-appreisenrded. that for t rectiond ofapaae,tc a propestit jwould not hbTrve beenrecivedwit an0;a dge f:approbation. (Hear, bLt&,.) I Oe crcustace whch endre tasoutely necessar thatiml thin Ought to. bednetti yalc, - Wa-s fh hiho- he thought it a shanme to let that building reimain Rsiel sae o soln im n ithou ting hmeasures for iaelisug it. (Hear, heir. hith w9asitha uatrhe alteration ctimmenced--gn altera- tionwhic wa,he contended, ben6ffCiiafto the public, and w not deficient in tase t- Coonel DAVIES did not, think the alteration wsagood one. St. James's lojke mnore like an alnisho se thnan a palac, and was a disg,race to the country'. Sir T. BARlNG said.they haaa gretnumlsrof-' lamesmany [of which-might be pulled down kwithaIdvnta&ge My~ had St. Jamles's Palace, Hanspton.courrpac,Bclngus4se e- palace, Kensingtnpa e al at B uahte, sninga oge; haKnew_ no"wattoc l 8ithhhb tBrgw,a ull, ele notwhaito." i, bnthe. ey'eed it 'was sometimes styled "'thsi toodo fortVind of,Y(Otng 300,00DL, .aa'thy waeabout so dofor W ndsr, and 40,0001. -fore, ir in pubil iildings, which they wereun nOw called on tog"i;wou nobiU beere, todis.. Produeo they mgesund otswlch St. JamesplPRace,iso's tood,aad with the prodce heymigt build a Palace rfl-sOme.essre.-appropriate sstua.: tionsandunitg.with it.a galleryfOr thseTeception oispecimnaetaf the -fine"at, at a sma Rll adt"onAl exPense. Zel-ri3igb-sdsosde; .Jaes' mghtbe isose 01- nd asIpl~did.paIace-ertctedjtt a suitablesijuatioh. Carlton-hosemight bv 4he. private, town resi-- de,mc of bq Mnarch andWnnd~rJis ilae perejiencedenirin else suinruets . , - --. ~ ~ ~ to-i x M~.3Af%~I sad,dic ha. io ig to tMAi d~ buildinig a tnew palac untl shewar-axeswere taken Omff. Sir M. V.IUDLE said,he woul1d put it to any individual in tat huse,ot- o.t C it wh thrthere was any pergon in liii ajesy's ominons,so il loged,considering thie getnes of hs rak ashis aest wasp (ear.) A large sum f n ny iii hoa difbret ~mltrpa.rasihemellishmeilts, litd kecen hither- to hron way Bt agod opotuntynowe occured to put an end o' tat rror Cartonhods wa gnuenb a state, thiat it could n lt-inggo onj until it rtceiVedsubstanItiAlepairs The foundation w-asinotgood, and thew.alliswere inabad state' Zothxequired sub- stantial repaiirs. TIlhe house m-ight stopi here, in consequenoce of this stWt of things, with good feeling and goodl sense. If the lhon, gent. 0Mr~ James), when the proper time arrived, should say there mnust be no nevw palace, he . h,ought he would stesuq alone in Tbat house. -A ialace was not the thinig immedately wanted, It would r-equire a considerable, time, and a large sumn of money, to erect a palace: but he called on the house to place hsie Majeity in a suitable situation, which would render it unnecessary to built&apalace at this molpent. Those trifling altera- tionis in the different palsceq should.be stopped, and somne nmens taken to provide for the erection of a grand niational build,ing here- gfter.. Loid MILTON said he was sorry 'to ace gentlemen vying with each othier in recommnending the erection of buildings whichi must lay the country under a very heavy expense. (Hear hear,) it_was coo mnuch-because they were gradually extricating tiemnselves from their diffcu ties, because the counitry was ina muchi better state thau it had been in for some aer-tht thierefore they should iin- mnediately r-tn a- race of extrayvagince aLnd profutsion. (Hear.) H is chief reason, however, for* rising was, to notice the proposal, of' the hon. baronet (Sir T. Baring) who was anxious for the sale of all the poa alaces- This was avery favourite notion with some persons, bthhoped it would never be acted on. clas etutdta Hampton-court would neither be selected for sale nor for destruc- tion. One circumnstance must ever endear it to Englishmpn-it Ihad been the residence of the great founider of their liberties, King Villiam. Mr. H. G. BENNTET thought this surm Of 40,0001. ouzbt to be voted.for the attainmentof some decided specific object. It was, de- manded for the repair of public buildings, anid here there wvere three snyid iesidences,not one of them in repair,wbich were to be im-oeoved atthie samne mowment. fie saw no necessity for this. As to a new pa- lace, if he stood alone in that house, he wvould resist the building of anyrpalice at all. Sir C. LONG said, it was absolutelyv neceessary, to grant money for tisl purpose, if 'they wishedl to keep the buildings in existence- As to the questioin of taste, which had been Teferred to, the commit. tee to wvhom aJllusion bad been miade by his hon. friend (.Ifr.Bankes) liad notbing to do with the charge that had been inisinuated ag2inst them. Or that commiittee, hiis honourable friend, as yell as himiself, was a member ; and his honourable fri-end must know, that their business was solely limitted to decidi-ng on drawings for national monuments. WiVth regard to the newv courts (he would inot call them Grecian-for certainly their arch5- tecture was not Greciutus nor any thing else that he" knew o~f,) he migh epeitd to obierve, that the only' reason he could per- ejive for building them byv tile door of Westminster-hall was--be- cause there had been buildinps there before. ISir J. iNEWPORT regretted~ that aLny board should be at liberty to say whiat ancien t buildlings it appewrd to diem proper to be de- stroved. TVhe CHANCELLIOR Of the EXCHEQIER said the Board of IVorks acted under the orders of -lhe Treasury. Motion agreed to. 10,0001. were voted for defraying the expense of certain works Icarrying on at the College of Edinburghi.R1UR 1,5.weePORT PATRICK HARO . 1385.Aeeproposed fer defraying the expenses of certain wvork-s earyn ointehrbouir of Port Patrick. Si I OFI condemned these works as useless.Whnte were finished, the harbouir would niot be a cable's length in widthi. Nine miles farther off, at the harbouir of Lough Earn, a far more comnmodious station couldl have been made. There was an- other beautifuil place, called Donaghiadee, on whicli mus#h money had been uselessly spent. It would have been muchi better to have resorted to Beifai~t Bay, where ships might ride in safety. The 1 best plan wvould be, to let the works at Portpatrick- and Donaghadee go to destruction, and to pay attention- to tihe facilities that were to be found at Liotighi Barn and Belfast Bay. AMr. PEEL said-, the works in question were planned by,1Mr. Ronnie, agentleman whlose name was very highl,ydistinguiished. He was quite certamnthatAir. Rennie would nieverbhave given his opinion in fa- vour Of those or any other works, unless he was perfectly sure that they- would answer the puirptose foyr whlich they were intenided. gir I. COFFI N said Mr. Rennie had informed bin,, on the break- water at Plymnouth, that he was no seanian-that he had left the question of tides to be dealt with liv Mr-. Whitmarsb, and only, sti- pulated to perform the work when ft was decidled on - S;r J. NEWPORT wvas of opinion that there was, a great mids. application of money at Hc-wthhatbour. That project,he was con- vinced, would hoever answer, MNr. GOULBURtN said, whenever thiose works were finished, there was not a naval man, who ianderstood what thie prevalen,t winds in that channel were, -who would not say that vessels would, nine tirmes out of 'en, sooner get into H4owth than Dunleary. Sir 1. COFFIN.-In the darkest niight I could make mry way to Dainlearv muchb more eze;ily than I could to Howth. Slr. GOIJLBURN.-The packets constantly make their way into Howtis Sir I. COFFIN.-Becausc they are ordered to go there, Sir. (A laugh.)-Tbe motion was agreed 'to. CALEDONIANX CANAL. ?26,000 were proposed towards comipleting the workis of the Cale- donial canal, for the year 15025. Sir 5l. W. RIDLt?Y hope-d the right lion. gent. w ould repeat the assurance he gave them las(tsession, a tthis. was the only vote that would be called for on account of theCalecloiiancran;al. Pi Sir.M. Ridlev) expected that no further grant woald bedemianded. Ii-was timethat this expense should be put an end to. He certainly would not vote for the proposed grant, uinless the right lion, gentleman ~,edKed himself that no miore assistance would eh demanded fromi Vrken Acodrn tothgoie lerfer of tlie'dorihriiskioners in183 he was led to expect that no more mnoney wouldl be required. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER maid, he had stated last y-ear that he should not feel justified in asking for the sum he then called for, unless lie couild refer to the lismltof' expense which wnas likely- to be nlecesary for the completion of this wvork,. When he was prep&ring the estim'ates at that period, he communi- cated with the commissioners.-and the letter which he received in consequence, and to whicls the honourable baronet had referred, answered the question he had put. There- was only one object to be attained-that of makinF the deptlho hecla uni- formly 20 feet throughout its whole extent ; aiid thle sumi of 25,0001. now called for would accomplish that object. All, there- fr,tchat was likeld ob eqie o the work itself, was the vote now before the committee. There wvas, iowevei-r, another point which related to the outsanding claims of individtuals; th.rough orit~islands the casel had been cut. It would be an extreme injus.- tice to rnny p2rties, if claims of that nature were not considered It would he most unfair to take their lands, and afford them no remu- r..SM ITH said, this, he hoped, was thle last vote which wouldl be demanded on arcount of thins canal. Wlould the right hon. gentleman gire themn a direct assurance that this 25.0001.-was clearly, substantively, and bone fdA the last sum of monev that would be takcen firom the ublic for the comipletion of this wor'k-? The CMIIANTRELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no doubt that the view of the commissioners was correct andI that the pre- s'ent rote would he sufficient to complete the work. - I Mr. HUMlE wi-,hed to know whether the income arising from the canal was ever likely to support the current charges?~ Mlr. HERRIES said, that that question hiad been asked officially, but the answerbad not yet arrived. The result of his private in- quiries had certainly not been very sati5afctory. All. WARRE wa% gladl to have at last a coiifession from the so- cretary of the Treasury, that the canal was a useless apeculation, as he (Mr. iVarer) hiad alwvavspronounced it to be. Ancl this was the case eve-n with the aid of steam, anu. improvement not contemplated when the undertaking liad been begun. Mlr. T. WILSON thought the vot should be suspended until a Ireturn could b-e obtained of all farther claims that were likelv to at- erme from the canal; including claims particularly 'o te score of. Vti-NW S&ITH, though he found no fault with the original devising of the canal, believed nevertheless thiat it would never pay its current chargesar.d the interest ofthemoney spentupon it. The ijirrseit rote was atrifle after so much exoense yet he was not disini- dlined to.wait for the return, on accounit of the claims to comnpensa- tion. iforoper arrangem'ents lied been made in the c6mmencmnei-t of the undertaking, there wss scarcely a proprietor who would not have been glad to. have the canal pass through his lands, without clamn,o thinking of ain any compensation at all. ahigThe CHANCE,LLOR otf the EXCHEQUERP said, that with- out the grant now esked, t-le canial wouild be utterly useless. In its present state, a vessel that ivent in at one end, could not, from the waste otfdepelh, get out att the other. The compensation claims could edt be iso settled as to become the subject of an immediate return, as, any demand whbich seemed unreasonable wouldI have to be assess-.i .Mr.THOilASWILSON agreed to withdtraw his opposition. Mr. HUMEt had understood, ten years ago, that the greater part of the land-owners concerned had acqluiesced in the canal cuttingi without couspesation. He was afraid that some claitms bad beeni set p frothe facility with which otberts had been allowed. Hiis opinion was, that as these were speculating tnines, the Chancellor of the Exchseiuer should get some company. to take i-le thlag off his bands. The CHANCELLOA of the EXCHE,QUER saidd1 that if the bon.. gentlenman would bid, lie should be happy to receive a teder. (Laughter.)-.The vote was then agreed tq.' -. NEW COURTS OF JUSTICE. ?30,000 was proposed, for the expenses of the new courtS of jus- ltice erectina at Westminster. Alri. BA-NKES rose to-comnplain of tbe'abomifnabhle taste in which thee bildngshadbee desgud.The new. projection by WVest. iniste~hal (ialerctin wichstadsin the plAce occurpied by the oldCortsofExceqer, bsies butig out the Abbey from the iew oo~sWesminaer-bidge waa disra etotechitecturi-l |thepit and`ud mentofAthe naton. Anesntmate,b eseiesl oghtL w fuirnished of wCt the total eense of the erections oal amount w. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER confessed that the front spoken to bad any thing rather than his approbation; but he bad not ween it until it was in a state of too great forwardness to be conveniently altered. For the estimate which the honourable gentlernami desired he believed the whole expense (farther) would not exceed 10,00i. Mlr. W. A- ILLIAMS,wished that the present vote should be tat-en at 5 0001. instead of 30,0001. and that the buildings should be pulled oQwn, for we, should only be laughed at while they re- rnaliiid up. Mr. CALVERT said,. thst the mnateials- might, alriost'all of them, be sold, or worked up over again.' The los would be oly the plrice of the labour. - lMr. BENNET commented upon the large gam asked for al- terations and rpairs.at lVindsor Castle, and upon the general bad taste which bad been show n in the deceraton or alteration of our alaces. Hehboped that not a stone vf Windsor Castle woulidbe al. owed to1etfluched'ithogt a plan'arid-an etinsale first laidbefore the house. The CRANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that when- ever he proposed the vote, he should be prepared to state the par- tictlars of what it was desirable should be'effected. The work woula be carTied-on under a commission, who would not fall to enter into tll 'iecesaT considerations. 3r . W ILLIAAIS stil wished hat the resolution before thr comn;ittee-shbtild be'postponed. ' .i. BF.RNATI.vlke of-the &eat iti6iovenience which would oc- ei froas8&1as' - 'Tbe.wsst of iregisIr 1acourcs wai already a very *}jouspDubllc t-til.>; c --- s - :S.- -Mr. WILLIAMSS said that the excrscence he complained of hbtdn^,uingto4o>,lth the l* courts'The Ia cogata were i a (IIOUS OF COM MONS.j MONDAY. MIAVCTr 1.