House Of Lords, Friday, M...
The Times, 1824-05-15T00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGEANCE. A return fronm the Custom-houseof all the exports to South Amse- rica'duinng the year 1821, was presented at the bar.I Mr. BnooaDE- and others. from the Comtnons, brought up the lrish postage bill, and several private bills, which were read a first time. IRELAND. The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice, that on Monday next hc would r-,ove the appointment of a committee to inquire into the tstt of tertain districts in Ireland. ALIEN' BILL. On the motion of the Earl of LIvERPOOL, this biU was read a third time. Lord GAGE rose, and doubted whether he was now in order in oDposine this bill. His objection, however, was not so much to the principle of the measure as to the power it gave to the Executive Government. According to this bill, the gallant IMIina, and the caquall- gallant Alava, might be arrested, sent out of the country withoutt a moment's previous notice, and even placed in the power of their greatestenemies Such a case, he admitted, was not likely to occur * bit it certainly might happen that a Pole or Italian refugee might be demanded by Russia or Austria. What wmuld be done by the Gnvernment if an ambassador of either of those Powers made war the alternative of not giving up the body of the alien ? The Earl of LIVERPOOL ebserved, that such a demand tvas not likely to be mnade bv any Power. He had. however, no hesita- tion in saying, that if his *Mlaiesty's Governnient were threatened with such a condition, they would engage in var rather than give up the alien. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said a few words in objection to the power given hy the bill. I.ord GA GE had on a former occasion proposed that aliepts on being ordcred ouit of the country, should be allowed to go wherever they pleased, at their own expense, but that amendment had been rejected. He would propose another amendment, to prevent aliens from bring sent into the hands of their enemies. Lord CLIFD FN spoke strongly against the power given to Mi. nisters by the bill, though, while the liberty of the press existed, he had sot much fear of seeing that power abused. Lord HOLLAND recommended the moving an amendment on the bill, and observed, that Ministers, bv eontinuing this measure, exposed themselves to the dlemands of foreign Powers. The Earl of LIVERPOOL, could see no probability of Russ:a or any other Power going to war on such a grotnd. If any Power had a great love and desire for war, it would be easy to find some other Dretence for hostilitv than that alluded to. l,rd },L,LENBOROU(GH had not the least suspicion that the power given by the bill would be abused, but nevertheless objected to the measure. Lord HOLLAND would place no confidence it any mtan, as it was the business of Parlianment not to grant undue powers. He be- lieved it was not wished to abuse the power granted, but it might be abused without an. such intention. The bill was in its nature altogether unconxtitutional and oppressive; but lie admitted that havinz once placed such powers in the hands of Ministers, it was ex- tremely difficult to frame any clauses by which that power should be regulated. Unfortunately, according to the bill, the alien might be sent from this country to the very place where his life was forfeited either by law, or aDly despotic decree by courtesy called law. Thus the life of the alien was p!aced in the hanls of ministera. At the same time he was aware how difficult it was to iiitroduce any provi. sioon which would effectually correct this evil, if the power of re- moval was eiven at all. Lord GAGE said lie would take the liberty of moving that the bill be recommitted. [Here a desultory conversation arose, in the course of which it was remarked, that the bill had already been read a third time, of which some of their lordships seemed not be aware. It was then suggested that Lord Gage should niove tn amendnient by way of rider.1 The Earl of ROSSI,YN moved that the debate be adjourned during pleasure, Ito give time, as we understood, for Lord Gage to prepare his amendment.l-Oreered The LORD-CHANCELL.OR presented petitions from the operative weavers ar.d the engine-weaver of Spitalfields against the silk bill, after wh:ch the debate on the alien bill was resumed. Lord GAGE moved a clause, as a rider, the object of which was to provide that no alien should in any case be, without his own con- 8ent, transported to any dominions under the authority of thle sovtrein ot his own country. Theta l of LIVERPOOL thought that the noble lord could Tiot rail to perceive thiat this clause would have no effect with re- ference to the object he had in view. It was necessary that the Go- vernment should have the power of forcing aliens out of the countr, sor there could be no dependence on their going out. He objected to the restriction wished to be imposed, though certainly from no desire to gend Spaniards to Spain, or Italians to Italy. Their Lordships divided on the amendment- Content, 131 Not content, 251 Majority, 12. The bill was then passed. Lord CLIFDEN presented a petition from the noblemen, gen- tlemen, land-owners &c. of the county of Kikenny against the tithe composition bilL. ISfLh c tf e ai h SILK BILL,. The Earl of LAUDERDALE having moved the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, proceeded to address their lordhsips in its support. He began b,) referring to the statutes of the 13th, 32d, anid 53d of the late King. Haviag explained the nature of tho restrictions imposed by these acts, he adverted to the Dublin society, fromn which a petition relative to the silk tnade had lately been presented to the house. That society) as far as he could judge, was composed of lords and gentlemen, who under an act of Parliament made it their business to settle the wages of labour. Thus it appeared that Parliament had vested this Dublin society with aA much power as Parliament itself nossessed. When free. dom was rsade the rule with respect to manufactures, it would surely only be necessary to state the existence of cuch lars to get thern repealed. He could anticipate i1o opposition from the side of the house on which he stood, because, in the sentiments he entertained respecting freedom of trade, his noble friends near him always concurred. At another time, he might have expected to meet with resistance from the other side of the house; for though the speeches of the noble lords who sat there had for soine time teemed with the most perfect thcory of commercial freedom, their practice had hitherto hcen very different. This session, however, he had had the sarisfaction of seeing the commencement of a more con- sistent condoct; and he hoped they would not on the present occa- sion act in direct opposition to their avowed principles, butthat on the contrriiytheywould endeavourto carry them into practice. A bill the same a.s tiat which he iovl: proposed, had passed a second reading last yet_'. Mvinjg, then, Vie4d y eianctioned thzeprincipleofthe mea- suie their lordships wouald not surely act so incotnsist6iy'ias to' re- fuse a second reading to 'the presint bill. A neasure' had already passed, by which all therestrictions were tobe remoived in the. year- 1828; and he wished their lortlshipsnow to consider,whetherit*o4ld be tight to pamper those restrictions until the timewheit the foreJ,sa importations should take-place, wvhicb wduld render all the precau- tions they had taken abortive.. ILKwas hopedL that by the machinery- vhich the capital of tisfcountry could afftord to put in rnotion,, w~e should be enabled to out-sell every country; but be wished to ktioiv what encouragement the master manufcturer - would have in employing his, capital to improve a trade from whith he could derive no benefit. By the exercise of the ingenuity and industry of our manufacturers, tihis countr might hope to enjoy the advantage of an export Silk trade but while the Law remained in its present state,that was imposlible. Theirlordshipsknew that the British manufacturers of muglin had outdone the manufacrurers of India in that article'; and though wages in France were low, they I were not low in the same proportion as wages In India. There was, therefore, no reason, if the restrictive laws-were tepealed, whv the manufacture of silk might not be broughit to such a state in this country as to render it as g reat an object of export as cotton. - Butt it was said thejourneymen would suffer by the alteration he proposed. On this sub3ect, he begged leave to say, that he stood there with the wish nf equally supporting the interests of the journeymen, antd the masters. It was, indeed, impossible to separate these interests in the view lie took; for he well knew that if a free trade existed, the master could not obtain an advantage, without at thie sapne-time be- nefitting the journeyman: bitt the regulations he wished to do away precluded the operation of this principle. Suppose the journeyman to apply, inder the act lhe had qnoted, to a magistrate for an increase of wages, the magistrate inudged of the necessitv of the rise by the price of the quartern loaf. If at the laIst adjustment the loaf was &d., and at the time of the application it was 1d. the magistrte thought he did enough if he raised the wages of tie weaver one-fourth. But nothing csuld be inore injurious to the interest of the jour- neyman weaver than this fixed price for the article be made. On an increased demand, lhe would obtain higher wages, but lie was tied down by the price of the quartern loaf. On the other handd when the trade became languid, the master could not afford to pay tie fixed price; lie withdrew his capital, and the journeyman was thrown out of emiployment. Another hardlship created by the law was the restriction respecting apprentices. A weaver could have no more than two. Thus, when old age or infirmities had rendered a wan, who ha(l devoted himself to a profession which required the ex- er-ion of' reat ingenuity, incapabl- of earning a IiveVhood Ly the labour of iis hands, he was prohibited tlrom suppor:ing himself by teachihg others. f-fe mighit have a large family of children, and in thlae case it wvould be natural for him to wish to employ them; but the joturneyman must sacrifice his paternal affection to the restric- tlion of this impolitic law. The noble earl next called their lord- ships' attention to the regulations in the weavers' price book, and. pointed out the injustice of otily the same price being allowed per yard for certain articles, whether the witlth was a yard or half a y4rd. With regard to fancy wvork, it never was carried on to a less extent than at the moment ihe was addressing their lordships. When that work was regulated by law, the labour of two persons was necessary; but since machinery was introduced, one was sufficient: yet, not- withstanding the advantage gained by machinery, this branch of the trade had declined, because the nmaster was obliged to continue to pay for two persorns, though he needed only one. After alluding to seviral otber circumstances in which the disadvantage of the restric- tive system wras experienced,the noble earl concluded bv expressing a hoap that the observations he had made would induce their lordships to juoceed to the seeond reading of the bill. 'Pha Earl of WEST.fORLAND opposed the motion for the sec4nd reading. From every thing he had heard, and what he had heard was conifirmed by the petitions on the table, as much alarm pretailed now among the industrious population of Spitalfields as hast year. It would be better to see what eftect the law latsSy passed would have besfore their Lordships proceeded far. thei. He thought it a very serious matter rashly to disturb |the minds of Sreat nmasses of people. The silk-trade was not said to be t present i a state of distress, and consequently there was no ground for immediate interference. To put an end to long-existing regp!ations was a thing which ought not to be hastily done. He woild let the matter stand as it was this year, and therefore moved as An amentdment,,that the bill be read this day six months. fjord ELLENBOROUGH thouglht the present the best time for renasving the restrictions, and intimated his determination to vote for the bill. 'their Lordships then divided on Lord WVESTsrORLAND'S amendment- Content, 8 1 Notcontent, 23 l DMajoritv, 15. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be-committed on Tuesdav.-Adiourned. - HOUSE OF LORnTh )TflnV a.- IA