House Of Commons, Friday,...
The Times, 1824-05-08T00:00:00

The equitable loxn bank biU was read a second time, on thb tnpo tioii of Sir W. CO-oGnEVE. Mlr. LOCKHART presented a petition from cetain indvxld in favour of the equitable loan bank-biD - r The Ha,nmersmith bridge bili was read a second time and p Mr. MIANiNING moved the second reading of the West India Company bill. AMr. D. SYKES was proceeding to make some observations upon it, when Mr. HU'SKISSON suggestedl to his hon. friend to postpone it for a few days, as it involved the principle of incorporation on which he had spokien on a formaer night. iMIr. MANNING expressed his wiUingness to concur witb the wishes of his rihlt honourable friend. Mlr. D. SYKES wished to know whether the honottrable Bank Director intended to pospone the bill intlefinitely. Mr. iMIANNING.-Certainly not. I shall pursue it again on 'l1onday next. The second reading was then postponed to AMonday next. Petitions were presented against thc beer duties from the lieonsed rictuallers of the following places:-of Northwvich, Chcrnir, by MUr. DAVENrPOsT; of Rochester, Leith, and Edinburgh, by Lord IXNtNlNG; of tllasgow,by Sir A.CAMPBELL; ant of a parish in Somersetshire. by Lord G. Somerset. 14r. JAMES presented a petition, which he said was very nut merously signed by the inhabitants of Chorlev-row, Manchester, against a bill that cither had been, or shortly would be, introduced into the house, for thc purpose of appropriating half a million of money to the erection of new churches. They founded their obh jection to this measure upon what had occurred feuT yeaTs ago in their own town. At that time a numerous meeting was held to con. sider whetlher there was any necessity for erecting new churches at i)lanchester. The result of the meeting was an unaninmous resolu- tion on the part of the inhabitants of Alanchester, that the churches then in toe town were quite sufficient for its population. Notwith- standing the unanimity of that resolution, the commissioners had thought proper to erect three new churches in the town of Man. chester. Sir 1. COFJ tS._T suppose these petitioners are not church of Ensland nen. (A laugh.) Mr. J , 3I ES was surprised at the gallant Admiral's using such languia ze regardin, the petitioners, ofwhom it was quite evident that he rr,Qld know notring. i'he petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. IMUNDY presented a petition from the inliabitantsof Derby, expressing their approbation of what had already been done by Go. vernment this session in the remission of taxation, but likewise expressing their disappointment at not having been relieved from the weight of the assessed taxes, which they prayed might be forthwith repealed. The honourablc nmember then presented a petition from Pressgrove, in Leicestershire, against negro slavery. Sir A. HOPE prcsented a petition from thc inhabitants of Lin. lthgow, against any alteration of the poou laws of ScotlandE ilMr. H. DRUMIAIOND expressed his intention of meeting with ioost determined hostility, the bill which had been brought into Par- liament for effecting a complete change in the state of the pioor of Scotland. Mr. KENNED'Y said. that the bill which he had introduced into Parliament upon this subject, had mnet with the approbation of many of the maost able and en'lghtened men in Scotland. He knew that it was likely to be for some time unpopular, in consequence of the alarm which the Lrsrd Advocate had very iniudiciously rung out against it. He trusted that the house woiuld judge of it by its own tnerits, and not by the prejudices which had been excited against it. Mr. DUNDAS said7 that the state of the poor laws in Scotland was such as not to require alteration. It would have been well for England, if -she had followed the examuple which had been set her by Scotland on his subjezt: she would not then be in such a situation as she was at present-a situation from which she could not re- trert without difficultv, or advance without danger. Sir G. CLERK stated, that at a meeting of his constituents it had been unanimously resolved to oppose this measure. lie was happy to say, that on this suoject he fully concurred in the opinion of his constituent-. T,s7 ,tio, ,e, Peci a petitioni remI theloewr of Stirling,I against the new beer bill.-Ordered to be printed. Mlr. H. DAVIS presented a petition from the butchers of Bris- tol, in favour of the hides and skins bill.-Referred to the com- mittee on the bill. MNlr. LITTLE-fON presented a petition from the tanners and curriersof WalsaD, againstthe hidesand skinsbill.-Laid on the table, The hon. member also presented a petition from the licensed victual. lees in the town and ntighbourhood of Walsall, against the new beer billL-Laid on the table. TMr. LA111BTON presented a petition from certain debtors in the Fleet prison, in favour of the equitable loan bill.-Laid on the table. The hon. menmber als3 presented petitions from the licensed victusallers of Gateshead. Durham, against the new beer act; fronm the butchers of Soath Shields. in favour of the hides and skins bill ; and from certain inhabitants of the same town, against negro slavery. -Laid en the table. Mlfr. CAWVTHORNE presented a petition from the conmmon orewersof Lancastet, against the new beer bill.-Laid on the table. Tihe hon. member also presented a petition from Mlr. Isaac Cross, of Lancaster complaining of the conduct of certain tax-gatherers.-Laid on the table. .1r. EGERTON presented a petition from (as we understood) the brewers of Chester, against the new beer bill-Ordered to be printed. Mir. WALKER presented a petition against the inhabitants of Aldeburgh, against Negro alavery.- Laid on the table. Captain WEUYSS presented a petition from the convocation of Fite, against Negro slavery.-Laid on the table. Mr. CURWEN presented two petitions from certain places in C0umiaerland, against the salt duties.-:-Laid on the table. Lord F. OSBORNE presented a petition from Itre common brew- ers of Ely, and a petition froni the licensed victuallers of the same place, against the new beer bill.-Laid on the table. Mr. ELLISON presented a petition from Newcastle, against Negro siavery.-Laid on the table. MIr. DENMtAN presented a petition from the licensed victuallers of Nottingham, praying that the duty on beer might be transferred to the malt.-Laid on the table. The learned gentleman also pre- sented a petition from the boot and shoemnakers of the county and town of Nottingham, against the combination lavs.-Referreil to the committee on artisans. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from certain persons acting as grand jurors at the Salford quarter sessions, against the new beer bill. Hlis lordship presented a simiilar petition from the licensed victuallers of Salford.-Laid on the table. Lord ENNIS.31'ORE presented a petition from the town ef Skibbereen, county of Cork, against the repeal of the bounties on coarse limens.-Ordered to be printed. Mr. HORNBY presented a petition from the licensed victuaUers of Preston, against the new beer bill.-Laid on the table. Mr. N. CALVERRT presented a petition from a number of auc- tioneers of the metropolis against the equitable loan bill. The peti- tioners stated, that if the bill were carried, it would occasion their toral ruin.-Laid on the table. Altr. R GORDON presented a petitioni from a gentleman of the niamne of Fuller, calling on the house to give to magistrates, bv a le- gislative enactment, the power of deciding summarily in cases of petty assaults, instead of binding over the parties to appear at the quarter sessions. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said a few words, whiclh were inaudible in the galery. Mr. S YKJES expressed himself hostile to the prayer of the peti- tion. It appeared that the petitioner was not satisfied with the trial of assaults before the quarter sessions, but wished the magistrates to exercise an arbitrary jurisdiction, and to decide them instanter. He (M11r. Sykes) would willingly extend the jurisdiction of magis- trates where necessity tequired it; but he saw no occasion what- ever for enlarging their power in this instance. Mr. J. BENETT said, that as the law now stood, Welch and Irish labourers were frequently unable to obtain redress in cases of assault. When they preferred an indictment, the party complained of procured bail, and traversed that indictment. The prosecutor was, perhaps, obliged to return to England or Wales, and wbeil the time of trial came, could not attend, being destitute of the means of supporting himself on his journey. Thus the offending part escaped.-The petition was laid on the table. Mlr. Alderman BRIDGES presented a petition from a number of wine anti 3pirit-merchants of London, against the St. Catherine's- docks projeet.-Referred to the committee on the bill. Mir. L. FORSTER presented apetition from the town and neigh. bourlhood of Dundalk, against the warehoused wheat bill.-Ordered to be printed. Mr.' C. PELIIAM oresented a petition from the licensed -eicruallers of Newport, Sliropshire, against the beer bilL-Laid on the table. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND presented a petition from the solicitors of Edinburgh, and also from the faculty of pro- curators, against the atterneys' stamps. His lordship also presented a petition from the burgh of Kilrenny, against the repeal of the herring bounties.-Laid on the table. Mltr. T. WILSOiN presented a petition from the licensed victual. lers of the metropolis, against the new beer bill. Alderman WYOOD said, if this bill were suffered t's pass into a law, it would be productive of the worst effects to a very numerous and deserving class of peTsons. Property to a great amount would be deteriorated; and many annuities which wereat present fixed on that property, would he considerably reduced in value. If, there- fore, it was determined thattbe bill should be pressed forward, coin. pensa'ion ought to be made to drose persons who werelikely tosuffer by it. In a recent case Government had matle compensation to a puiblican whose hourse it wasi found necessary, in the course of certain improvenents, to take possession of, befiore his lease had expired; sod thore lvho must inevitnbly be injured by this enactment were equally eptitled to compensation. lt {was alleged as a reason for this rcasure, that almnost all the public houses were in the hapds of hbebrewers. This,however, was.erroneou. of 48,000 publichouses in fIondon and its enuirons, 24,000 Were perfectly free. The petition was laid on the table. Sir J. MIACINTOStI presented a petition from the royal burgb of Ihvemess, in favour of the Scotch juries bill.-Ordered to be printed. Sir J. DlACINTOSH presented a petition froin a body of Chris. tiaUs in the cityof Dublin, denominated " Separatists," who, in con- sequence of certain religious scruples, founded on variouts texts of Scripture, declined taking diffzerent oaths prescribed by law. They were good men and irood citizens, virtuous in every relation of life; and they prayed te be relieved from the neesasity of taking those oaths, in the same manner as the sect of Quakers and the sect of Moravians had already been relieved.-The petition was laid on the table. Sir T. LETH BRIDGE presented a petition from the licensed vietuallers of Bath, against the new beer bill, which, if passed into a law, would be the utter ruin of the owners and occupiers of public- houses. The hon. barenet presented a similar petition from Frome- Selwood.-Ordetee1 to be printed. Mir. F. BUXTON presented a petition from Newport, Isle of WVight, praying for the abolition of slavery.-Ordered to be printed. Air. W. WILLIAMS presented a petition fromn thelicensed victuallers of Dorchester against the new beer bill.-Laid on the table. Mlr. LESTER presented a. petition from an indivitlual named Jackson, on the subject of the salt tax. Dlr. BENETT presented a 'petition from Mlear, (Wiltshire,) complaining of the bee duqjt; -ts. JAMrES SCOTT, a petition from Bridlport, (orsetsbire),W %.;iifc effect; Sir E. K-;ATCIYBULL a similar petition from 'tte<1$ewd ictuallers of Chatham; and Jlfr. CUST, a similar petiif 4ta Grantharl . Sir HENRY PARNEMU..Aemsented a petition from the silk- weavers and throw-tdrs'of-bubliNh praying that the act might be repealed whlich empowere if the.'~: Diblin society" to fix the prices. Nr. JOHN SMI'T1-p pesc'ited a petition from certain Separa. tists of London, prayinp to bd relieved from tbe obligation of taking an oath. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. ivlr. ROBERTSON rose to'complain of a breach of the pri- vileges of tb,e houge-. If speecbei delivered in Parliament were to be repoitsed 5au o-* doors, mnothirig'could be more important to inem- bbets thchittbe; .hduld be reported .orrectly; and if a contrary .scCticete~sjEe, it co.d not too soon he put a stop to. The house 'f atimeThRiiq-rememdber,hat on theprecedingevening hie had calred toa sukecr io le.ss weighty than the religion of a whole ' nsiti.O.' Irf he could be capable of treat'ing such a subject lightly, he should feel himself unworthy to sit as a memlber of Parliament; and yet suhl was the imputation to wh ch le was likely to be subjected by a paragraph in a paper lalled the Gobe acud Traveller. He would stateto the house the words which wereattributed tohim, and of which he complained. le was confident, personally, that he had used no such words; and his recollection was borne out by the reports which had appeared in ether papers. The Glohe and Traveller clai-ged him with having said, speaking of the Catholic question as apphed to Ireland, that " he conceived it a measuremost easily accomplished, if Alinisters wouldi set about it;" now what he had said vas this-and. the house probably would recollect it-" that it appeared to him to be a question of so mnuch importance, that he was afraid Alinistets had not courage to enter into it." The SPEAKiER begged to ask with what motion the hon. mem- ber meant to conclude ? If the lion. member mcant to complain of a breach of privilege, and to call the party who had committedit to the bar, the regular course would be, to put in the newspaper com- plaineI of, and have the paragraph read. Alr. ROBERTSON said, it wvas of the utmost consequence to him, and to every member, to stand in a proper light with the house. For himself, he belonged to no party; that fact was perfectly well known; and it was too often, lie was sorry to say, that lie was grossly misrepresented in the newspapers. The charge of having trifled uwith the religion of a country was a charge of such a nature as he could not pass over in silence; but lie trusted that, without carrying lls comtplaint any further, what had already been done would have the effect of rendering parties more cautious. ' CORN LAWS. iMfr. BROWNLOIV presented a petition from the farmers and land-owners of the county of Armagh, coinplaining of the bill for allowing foreign wheat to be ground in England. The measure contemplated wvas, to insist, for every six bushels of wheat removed, on having 196 pounds of flour delivered into store. This was not sufficient, bv the amount of one-sixth part; for five bushels of wheat would, in fact, be equal to 196 potnds of flour. The peti- tion farther proceeded to recommend the permitting foreign wheat to be imported (on the payment of a fixedl duty) at all times and under all circumstances. Such a course was much more likely to prevent sudtlen fluctuations in the market than the present system of admit- ting onlv under a certain state of the returns. lMr. HUME warmly supported the latter part of the petition. Sir T. LETrHBRIDGE was of opinion, certainly, that the ex- isting corn-laws wanted revision; andl was not indisposed to the course suggested by the petitioners. At the same time, the amount of duty to be taken was a very material point fbr discussion; and it was a subject altogether upon which the house slhould act with great delicacv. Mr. MONCCK supported the petition, and observed, that certainly the Irish farmer had no interest in finding a high price for wheat. WVihatever corn they might raise, unhappily they never tasted it themselves. One of the greatest causes of the misery which prevail- ed (as it seemed to hin) in Ireland, was the having allowed Irish wheat to be imported into this country. He would cheerfullv give his aid to any measure which should check sudden fluctuations in the pnrie of wheat, which amounted to so many fluctuations, and most distressing ones, in the wases of the labourer. Sir J. NEWPORT contended, that the free trade in corn be- tween England and Ireland had been a blessing, and a salvation, rather than a disadvantage to the Latter country. Alr. MONCK exolained. Lord MILTON, though he had supported tbe present corn laws, would be very glad to see them now revised. He differed entirely in opinion from the honourable member for Reading (Mr. Monck). The Irish tarmer had an interest, and a very great one, in obtaining a high price for his corn. Mr. BROWNLOW said, that next to the assertion that the linen trade had been of no benefit to Ireland, would stand the plo- position of the honeurable mermber for Reading, that her corn trade with England had been mischievous to her. coinanp4 lnYayour OPVSe biE'a_na skins bill. ?r. lUM E moved for a rctum of the number of clergy (absen- tees) in Ircland; and also for an account of the manner in which the church pratronage of that country was disposed of. lUr. GOULBURN said (as we understood), that such papers were prepanng, and would be upon the table in a few days. Sir J. NEWPORT moved for certain returns connected with the population of Ireland, and with the quality of the land in particu- lar parishes. BEER DUTIES. The consideration of the report was postponed until Monday next. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCI{ERUER moved that the house should resolve itself into a committee of ways and imeans, and that the balanjce sheet upon the table should be laid before the com- mittee. MlIr. J. WILLIAMS begged to ask whether it was intendedl that the evidence of the Chancery commission should be reported to the house ? The CHANCELILOR of the EXCHIEQUER was really unable, in the absence of his honourable friend (MIr. Peel), to answer the question. Mr. J. WILLIAMIS was anxious to know, because the commis- sion sat, he understood, to-nrorrow (this day.) The house then went into a committee. THE BUDGET. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, pur- suant to notice, to move for some few grants to cover items not yet provided for by the Committee of WTays and Mleans. In dIong this, it wooad also be his duty, conformably with the practice of Government in the house, to give sonie infornration as to the immediate state of the receipts and expenditure in the public accounts; to take a short review of the provisions already made in the committees of supplv, and also to cx. plain any further measures which it might be in the contem- plation of Government to submit to the house. The state bf the supplies already voted was as follows :-The current service for the yeatr were fixed at 18 millions and upwards, of which the votes for the army would take 7,438,5761. ; navy, 5,603,893; erd- nance, 1,410,0441.; miscellaneous, 2,623,2011. The total charges in every way, including the interest of the publicdebt, would beabout 56,000,0001. The intrest due upon Exchequer bills he coni- putael a about 1,500 0001. The Conmmittee of Supply had provided for the interest of M0,000,0001. of outstanding Exchequer bills. There were altogetlher 34,031.0001. of Exchequer bills outstanding, so that there remained 4,031,0001. to be provided for. The votes which had been granted to meet these supplies were three millions of annual uties, including those on sugar and foreign spirits * 4,620,0001. the produce of the bargain matte for the payment of the military half.iay and pensions-together witb a surm to be paid over bly the Vast In- dia (Company, in consequence of an arrangement entereil into be- tween the Governient and them for the half-pay and pensions of troops employed in the East Incles, amounting to 60,0001. annually. To these must be added the surplus of ways and means votetl for 1823, amounting to 41,5971., together with another small sum p aid back into the Treasury by the Comnissioners of Public Works, and 54,001. contributions from official salaries, agreeably to an order in council of 1792, which required officers of state and others to contribute 10 per cent. of their salaries towards defraying particular charges of the civil list. By the samne order these contributions were to be carried to the wavs and means of the cpning year, and not to the account of the Conso. lidated Fund. The total of these sums would be about 7,787,5971.; to which m ust be added, 106,0001. surplus of the consolidated fund, after satisfying all the charges upon i He ought to state how this surplus was li ely to accrue. Ee had estimated at the commence. ment of the session, thet the tOtal revenue to be expected was 51,265,0001., adding 1,422,5001. recovered of the Austrian loan and 222.0001, recovered upon the account of money advanced for the relief of Ireland in particular cases, which was now fuDy due, and in course of repayment. The total of these sums he had taken at 52,907,5001., or thereabouts. The whole of this, however, could not be carried to the credit of the consolidated fund. Out ot the total revenue, they would have to deduct 3,000,0001. granted in sup- ples for the year; also 1,200,0001. loss which the revenue would probably have to sustain, in consequence of the arrangements made for the reduction of taxes. There must also be subtracted another sum, to be reniitted in consequence of the repeal of the silk duties, the account for which was now made up. The total amiount wanted for that purpose was about 500 ,OOOI.-a sumn which excceed the calculation made by him, but which fell infinitely below the Pre- dictions with wlhich the opponents to the measure had attempted to terrify the house from adopting it. So far from its realizing the sad re- sults anticipated, it had been found to produce the greatest general good, and the actual benefits by far exceedcd in extent the evils w;th which they were threatened if they persevered. He must therefore be allowed to congratulate tbe house and the country on having suc- ceeded in that measure, after having to contend with opinions and customs long established, and prejudices which almost baffled the re- sources of reason. Still he was bound to do justice even tom those who had most strongly opposed him, and great credit was due to the conduct which they pursued in attempting to dissuade Par- liament from its purpose, insomuch that the moderation of spirit and! temper evinced on that occasion mnust always command the most serious consideration from Parliament. It was matter of sincere congratulation that so great a change had been so quietly eftected. It might be considered as an important triumph won by truth over prejudice. from which none but the moat hapDy consequences were to beanticipated. The costto therevenue would be 600,0001.; but the ridvantages of introducing liberalpritiples into the commerce of the cotry, not as matter of talk and speculation onl, but in real practice, could not be calculated. At present, the prospect, even from this limited approach to a more correct 3ysten, was bright; and already haddissipated all th? gloornyappre. enslions of those who were the least inclined to change. The tothl neome, then, might be talcc at 62,907,000L.; the total chargep at 48,707,5O0l. There had been alreadv granted,supplies to the amount I of 38,057,0001.; there reMained 10,650,500L to be provided!, which be proposed to take by votes from the ways and means grantedi for the liretent yetr., There bad been. exchequier bills voted to the. amount of 15,000,0001. to pay off- an equal quanteityissiued in the course of Iast year. if these two sums, amnounting bfetweeon them to 30,000,0001., were paid off,,there would still- rets,ain upwards of OWN0,00. of exchequer bill outstandinig to be provided for. The way in which he proposed to meet this charge was, by availing him- self of the consolidated fund, whicih would enable him to produce an equail qu'antity of exchequer bills at ani expense considerably less than now attended the 34,000,0001. issued in thie. ordinary way. Gentlemen conversant with the subject tuast he aware, that the charges upon the consolidated fund could inot ac- crue till the enid of the quarter; ivhereas a considerable wortion of the receipts found its way into the Exchequer in the cour-se of that perid. n ac ha pased wo ear agowhih athorized the ap- pliatin o th grwin prduc ofthefun totheservices which mighimmelatepcqire t, povidd te amnount required did not exeedSi milions At reset, te cargtis uipoin the consolidated fund an mor esecialy incethesiimplification of the sinking fend wee suh tat terewas o ncesity to have recouirse to the growng rodce.Stil th grwin prduce was available anid if anyadanise cold bederied t thepublic from it, it ougsttob used ccordngly.He prposedthatthe addlitional four milos of xcequr.ill soul b prvied for out of the grow. ing rodce f te cosoldatd fnti. There was nqothjing morein he ranacton tan ubsituingone class of debt franothr adrpaigone set of exh er bills by another is- sued on nir datgosterms;, for h il issued on this account need not baineetfrthe whole year, but only for so long a time as it would take it to mneet theni by the grwn rduc ofthe fund. Parliament having thus providedl meansfralth xess there would be a trifling difference of 155,0001 Uothgerlrlations -the trade, credit, and coiimerce of tecuryh would not trouble the committee with any observatos hs eematters well understood by all who heaud him, and by miany persons out Of doors wrho were deeply conversant with them. It would be wasting the time of the house for Ihim to go into general reflections, or to en- deavouir to make those subjects mnore striking by any remarlks or il- lustrations ofhis own. To one thiing lie was boutnd to call the p,ar- ticular attention of the committee. A plan had been an. nounced by him At the cominencemrnt of the sessians for reducinlg thie four per cents. He had proposed to give for every 1001. invested in the 4 tier cent, stockc, an equal quantity of stock to bear 3A per cent. interest, not reducible for, five years to come. HehaTd stated, that those who should dissent should be paid eli', and that they should begin by paying oiff one-third of the stock of those who should dissetit on1 a given day. Ife had also sad ht he would introdupe a clause into the bill to empower the Trea'stiry to pyoff the remaining twvo-thirds at six mnonths' notice. Hehd is)uted that perhaps sue-thiird of the holders might dis- senL. He did not by any means, bind himiself to find 75,000,0001. to pay thein alloR; but lie thought that it would not be~ difficult to find the means for paying off one-third of the holders, if so many of them should dlissent from the offer made to thiem; and lie hiad observed, that in case of the larger portion of the holders assenting, it would be desirable to pay oW the whole claimi of the otliers as soon as possible. It turned out that a very great number had assented; and then an additional notice was giveni that the .hrtothitds woiuld he paid off in sik months' frorA thetice. Those six mionths would expire on the I0th of Octo- ber niext. Tile consequence would be, that the assents would theni begin to count theirinterest. at3J per cent., and thieremainder would be enirely paid off. The total amount of the assents was 68 mu-l lions.--a fact whicti of itself furniished satisfactory proof of the strength of credlit possessed by the country; and which took away every obstacle wyhich be could htave expected to meet with in effect- ing tyhe final arrangemenzt. lie did not feel sure at the time that it would have been efTected withi so muchease; andocertainlyhe hadnot anticipated that there would be Only a sum of 7 millionis to poide onacount of disseints. There might be a dtiminution even Of th is amount, because the tinie had not f'ully expired for accepting the conditions offeredI by, Governmenti He would calculate, how- ever,, that there would be wanted for this purpose between 6,000.0001. and 7,000,00011. The most natural, easy, and obvious meode of pro. viding for this was by an issue of exchequer bills, at a moderate rate of interest; upon which matter of interest of exchequer bills a word more bv-and-by. Exchequer bills were known to be a very useful securitv in the market;, they were in greatrequest; they were of asynegtiaion an boe aver far interest. The immediate effct oul b, tat f adig 7000001. to the unfunded debt. If thiswer a ermaentaddtion hewasready to adImit that it could notbe onsderd a a isereglaton.He had already said, that ex- cheuerbils wre n rea reues inth market. It was the duty of Govenmet t sutainthe intha stte, by avoiding to enlarge the flotin det:for if they issued bills beyond whiat .lse market col cneiently bear, and keep in employment upon any sudden neest,te inconvenience would re-act against the public inter- est, ani therefore it -was thleir duty to keep the floating debt within due hounds. He proposed to take me.asures, therefore, tor reducing these exchequer bills by charging both principal 'and interest on4 the sinking fund. It might be objected, that while the sinking fund was emiployed in paying off these exchequer bills, its accumuxlative power of providing for the fund2e debt would, pro teyupore, be suspendect. As Government, hiowever, was bound to preserve the fund in its present powers and resources, to counter- act this stispension of its operations he proposed not to cancel the 4 per cent, stock which was to be paidl off', buit to transfer it at the rate of 3 per cent, interest to the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund . so that if they should be called upon to pay off' these exche- quer bills, the sinking fund wouldt not be wvorse off than it would have been, had it been left so the accumulation of compound in- terest ashbylaw intended. If they redeemned one million in each qure,it would take seven quarters before the last would be re- d.eemed. It might be said this would be a les rapid mrode than was within their power, if the sinking f'und must be so applied: but it wvas to be considered, that the wvhole 5 millions of sink-ing fund were hiot available: it was chargeable not only with some of the interest of else funded do t, but also s'ith the payment of life-annuities, which, on the payment of Janu- ary, amounted to 519.0001. The purchase of life-annuities would continue threughont this year at the same rate as before ; so that, a litrle more or less, the fund weuld still be burdened with the like anmountwhich could only be applied to the payment of life- WhR lfiut'C"~it--hAg ti-fuca~irnectv dnd'ereapplied to the reduction of the national debt, the sinklpg.fuand was necessarily saddled with a charge for the repayment of the claimants in case they should again appsear. Some portion, therefore, must be held applicable to that purpose. The- redeimption of a million of ox- crcnue~r bills per quarter was as msich as,underall the circumstances, could be effected. He next came to the subject of interest upon exchlequer bills, upon whichi, when he proposed the reduction of tIme four per cents., the bonourablermember for Taunton had recommended him to lower time interest of exchequler bills, with a view to inducing mnore general assent among the holders. Now it had struck him at the time, that if they issued too largte "arqanity of exchequer bills wvith a view to paying off the hoder o thje 4 per cent. stock, they miglht lower the interest so miuch, tisat, together with the depression which it would cause in the demand of themarket, they might be compelled to raise it again. It would notthen hiave apPeaTed quite fair to issue bills and reduce the interest of them, in order to bring in assents. .nd when they should lIave complied, to raise it again to their disidyantage: The parties assenting might reasonably complain, that if they had only foreseen the intention of Governmnent in raising the interest of exchequer bills, they could not have been induced to re-invest their stock at a lower rate of interest. At the same time Government was bound to observe how their bills stood in the mroney. market. At present they bore a premiumn of no less than 57. It wvas quite clear, therefore, that they could not let them go on ait so high a rate of interest. Accordingly he had tairned it in his mind to see if Governmnent could not save some portiomi of the in- terest, and he had contemplated that tise time would oomnewhen it miht be advisable to reduce it. That time, as it appeared to him, hadno aret.9le proposed to dirminish the number of exche- quer-bills bearing annual interest, and also to reduce the interest it- self. They isovw bore interest at, 2d. per day. fle had reason to flatter himself that the credit and comnmercial relations of the coun- try were so flourishiing, that they were quite safe in offering the next issuie of Exchequer-bills at 1 ~d. per day. This would produce no reduction of expense for the present year, because the grants of this year were to pay the interest of tlse bills issued in the course of last year. In the next y'ear the country would have the benefit of the redudtion which he now proposed, and the -saving would be about 230,0001. upon 30,000,000 of Exchequer-bills. Having explained the votes and proposed thie means for meetinjg them, he had no further Observations to make at present, though he was ready to offer any elucidation which might be required of him by those who thould'follow hilm. He concluded by moving, agree- ably to the tenour of' Iiia speech, for a grant of 15,000,000 of ExcIte- quer-bills. Sir IL PA1tN ELL trissted that the country would not receive the alteration in the silk-trade as tIme completion of that system of liberality in commercial affairs upon whiich ministers had determs'n- ed to proceed; but rather as thie beginning and first successful ex- periment. lie thought that the alteration of the wool duty to 2d. to which the righithon. gent. had assented against his betterjudginent, ought to be altered told.,-asat first proposed by him. The tsmber- trade was another branch which called not less losidlly for a similar reformation. An impertect measure of redress had been introduced some years ago, since which nottiing.m&ie had, been heard on the subject. and the public were chaLrged, meanwvlile, with somne hun- dreds of thiosMnds a year in the purchase of timber, morethan they need ay. s toa sikinsfund of five millions, it was weU nWus that they had no tinoking end to that amount: it was not quite four millions, according to the right 1i00. gentlerman's statement. But=te alled it by a wrong name; it was not a sinking fund : on th is aing outo of a war the minister niust have recourse to it at once It was rather a surplus than a sinking fund. But was it not wortht consideriing if they could not establish a real slnkingfund by adopting the plan oflong annuities? Helhad mentio edthatplati to the lateSlIr.Rlieardo an, some otherpers,bnsofflnanc,ial abeility dutofdloor, and it. was approved. Suppose, then, that instead of attempting to consume the debt by the accumulationi of compound interest, they were to try whlat could be done by paying it off at the rate of com- PoundI interest. The Chancellor of the Exchequer might even yet make an experiment with the holders of the 4 per cents. who had not assentedl, by offering to convert their perpetual annuities into annuities for life, or long annuities. It was quite plain, that if the debt contracted in 1794 had been put on this foot- ing at the time, in seven years from this time the whole of it must have been extinguished : the same of all the debt contracted.sinec, allowing for the difference of time, and were the Teduction only at the rate ofamillion a Year, as the existence of a nadon differed from that of an individual, it was a good argument for his plan, that at in the end thare would be no debt remaining. LMr. IHUME approvedl of the views of the right hon. gent. with re- spect to the freedom of commnerce, and wished to seetthe wool and tim. ber tradeputonthesamneeli6iblefootingwith thatof the silk. The re- strictions of trade were a disgrace to the statute book, and a heavy obstacle to the welfare of ttsc country. Upon his financial regula. tions he could not pay the right hon. gentlenian the same compli- ment. The plan of the dead-weight-loan ought to have convinced the house by this time and the right hon. genCeman, of the folly of continuing in a course of erroneous principles, the evils of which were now so0 manifest. For every hundred pounds of that loan which Government had borrowed at the rate of 7X, they would have to pay in the end as hi h as 9il and the ultimate loss would be at last six millions; and the loss i wtslf was less than the shamue and disgrace whichl must be incurred by the adoption of such a measure. But what was the right hon. gentleman now about to do? He was going, against the better dictates of his own judgment, and contrary to the able exposition which he had himself given of its absurdities to intilsiply the forms and intricacies of the sinking fund. He (Mlr. Hume) w as sorry that he had been compelled to put offthe discussion of the Sinking Fundl, because it might have saved the right hon. gentleman from this blender. lHe wvouid prove, whenever the dis- cussion rhould-come on, that Mr.RPitt ws5 in delusion and error in establishing it, and that it had never saved one fartlming, nor could a farthing ever bc saved by its opcradtons; but> tnme contrary, ftere must be continual loss. Wbat couia justify the right halt. gnleman in complicating the public accounts more than at present ? Vy, would he transfer geven more millins.-to the-sinliug fland, and increse the ifitricacies of it, which were already so great,thatlie' defied any man to find thiem, usnless.he had nothing to do but to itt-- spect them, -and fiad an establishmetnt cCfclerks to heu hi dscoverieL The amount of increase by which the miscellasneotus estimAtes of this year exceeded those af the last, was another subject which he couldnt lpas over unnoticed. Of thes, 500,0001. were tobe ipplied to the hotiding of chiurches, and 300,0001. to the alteration of a pa- lace. Hie wished now to know whetlher, with respect to the first. of these objects, it was the intention of his Mlajesty's ministers to give the house any fuirther Woprtunity of expressing their opinion on it? tThe Cfiaincellor of thec Exchequer said, across the cable, "Yes: itwill come before the house in the form of a bill."] He was glad to hear that this was thie right lion. gent.'s initention ; because he believed that if the matter were to be fairly consider'ed, notwithstanding the very surprising division whichi had taken place on a former occasion, it would be foand so objectionable that it could not be agreed to. He had never yet met with oine man, eithier in or out of the housc, who had not wholly disapproved of the measure (hear,) ; and yet it seemed, that when genitlemen camne down to the housqe, they appeared to be under the influence of a spell, the effect of which was ta make- tlhem vote against their own con- victions. (A laugh.) It was fli-g Own inttent ion to op e the mea- sure at every stage of its progress, and he had no doubt that he should hiave the assistance of many gentlemeh who had not before ex- pressed themselves so hostilely as they felt tow~ards it. One suig- gestion more lie begged to throw out for the consideration of the AMVi- nisters. It was that which had been first brought forward by his; lamnte frend sh ho. mmbe fo Posarinurton. In a pamnphlet pubishd sncehisdeah, t ws pove tohis (Air. H ume1s) satusfacz tio ateae, ha th whleexpns ofthmanageinent, and theinter.. estof he lotin det, igt b saedto the country. He hoped that whanenlro the tiExcieuh ould tiefratng upon this sujggestion, the Chanellr oftheExceque ~'el not listen to any proposition for continuing to thie Bank of England flt, gq clusive privilegea they hiad so long and so unfairly enjoyed. He (iWr. Httme) took this oppor- tunity of mentioning the subject, that there mfigh-t be suflicient time for prelparation ; and he hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would submit the matter to the opinion of the house, antl that a com- mittee might be appoirg;ed to inquire into it, and to collect the best evidence and opinions that could be obtained It was by their charter alone that tie credit and a.dvantages of the Bank were supported. In thie present exuberance of capital, hehadno doubt that if the Gover- ment wouild establish banks in every part of tlhe country similar to those whicht existed in Scotland, theresutltof such a meass,ure would be a svig o te wol inerst f he xcequr ils. The failures of bnkig etabishent oftn Ivoled nnoentpersons in ruin anddisres; nd et,frquetlyas uc Intaneswere occurring, theconenincls pesetedto lmot very description or persons by te bnkig sytemwer so rea, tat they were compelled to re- sortto hem.If overmen, wh ouht away tobe alive to the wants aiid interest of the pepe, wol gieterassistance and authority to the estbishent of suc bak stoe of Scotland, he was sure there would niot be one failu-re in ten yeas and that the lamentable catastrophes whiclh were now so commo would alto' gcthercease. He was aware of the adyantage which had been de. rived, up to this period, by keeping up the tuxation ;but the nece- sity for that hadl now ceased, and least of all should it he con- tinued for the Ipurpose of supporting what was called the sinking fund. If any suirplus were, however, to be kept Uirp it ought to be applied for the purpose of puttingr the floating debt into a pro- per state. Every shilling that was left above the actual expenditure of the state ought to be applied either to reduce that floating debt or to diminish the taxation`; thie consequaence of which would he, she relief of the country, the increase of' its productive powers, and the augmentation of its capital. Hle was perfectly sensible, and re- joiced as sinceerely as any, man at she improvement which had been effectedI in the finance of thie country. At the end of tdie war the interest of the debt was paid at 5 per cent. Souse time ago he hadl alludled to a period when the 3 per cents., would perhaps be at par ; andi much asi that notion hiad been scoffed at, it was now in a l'air way of being realized. '"'hat had been efFected in this respect was really a reduction oftbe debt, and far more efficient than the pretendled sinking fund of 5 000 0001.,as it was said, but whiich amounted in fact (after the sum borr'owed wasi dedoicted) only to 3,000.0001. In the p resent stateoftliefunds,hesaw no reason why theChancellorofthe Exchequer should not give notice that he was ready to receive proposals for the purchase of annuities for 20 or 30 years. By adopting this plan, to- gether with the reduction of the interest, he wouldl render a really important benefit so the country; because it would immediately re- duce the annual expenditure. He (Mlr. Hume) must, however, al- ways protest againlst the plan of purchasing the 3 per ceats. at 98., as was now intended. He wished to see the whole of the surplos ap- plied to take the fl[oating debt out of the niarketr; and he was quite psatisfied that any sudden emergency might be met by increasing, wvhen it shiould be necessary, the number of exchequer bills. The complication of the 4 per cents. he considered to bein every point ol view highly, objectionable and in this opinion he believed the whole countrv wenit along witih himn. Mir. ROBERTSON trusted that the Chancellor of theExchequer would not be deterred from pursuing the simple and sttaight-forward measure of a sinking fund, the consequence of which, he was satis- fied, would be highly benieficial to the community. Mr. WHITMORE took the oppoirtunity which the subject now before the commiittee afforded him of' expressing a hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would revwert to that plan which he had at first adopted wiLth -respect to the exportation of wool. The right hon. gentleman had been induced to alter the duty froam Id. per lb. to Id. per lb. ; hut be (Mr. Whitmore) hoped that it was not too late, even uiow, for him to resume that better regu- lation which he hadi rejected. The measure which had been adopted with respect to the silk-trade, of returning the duty on the stock- in hanid, lie had opposed when it was frstad vanceti, and he was convinced that his opposition wras well founded, and that the measure was extremely injudicious. The taking off the restrictions was sure of itself so excite the competition of other countries, and until it had been proved, by a diminution of price takinig place, that in such competition our manufacturer., labourediunder real disadvantages, the return of the duty ought never to have been made. le regrettedverymuchthatithadbeen done and he hoped it would at least teach the house upon future oiccasions, not so listen to the clamour of interested persons, nor to make con- cessions which were neither ~.ust nor necessary. He wished:to Presi POlCYof oninunglieded-wigt -'~-he e~"'-"-- p6r_C-o,co_nt,n,__n_theded-eihtloan upon tbe country. He trusted that a perioda might arrive wlien an opportunity -would he offered for them to remove it ; and when that opportunity did come, he hoped the Government would eagerly avail themselves Of it to get rid of a system which was sneered and scoffed at by every individual in the country. With respect to the sinking fund, he and some other hon. members) who like himself did siot think the surplus too large, were placed in a very unpleasant situ- ation as regarded their constituents. They seemed to be support- ing a surplus of 5 millions, when, in: point of fact, it amounted only to a millions, and appeared to be advocating a sinking fundl which vwal opposed to the wishes of their constituents for a reduction of taxation. He expressed his approval of the conduct of the Go. vernment in the manly and zandid course they had pursued in placing the accounts of the country in so clear a light that those wrho ran might read, and hoped that in the same spirit they would feel it incumbent on themn to get rid of this sinking fond, which was one of the grossest delusions that had ever been practised. The resolution was then put and carried. The committee afterwards agreed to a vote of 41,5971. she surplus of the grafit of ways and meanis for the last year, and of 14,600,0001. to make up the deficiency in the consolidated fund. The house re- sumed, and' thie report was ordered to be brought up on Mlonday. THIE CHANICERY COM1M ISSION. 'Mr. J. WILLIAAMS asked the Secretary of State for the Home Departtment (as we understood) whether it was intended that this commission shouldt report the evidence wqhich might he adduced be- fore themn, or only their own opinions on the subject referred to them ? Mfr. PEEL, replied, that the comm-ission contained a distinct power for the personis named in it to call before themn all such indivi- duals as imight be able to fuirnish them WiEh the information they de- sired to have, and to examine them on oath. Consequently, the ad. mission of parole evidence was thus expressly recognized). The commissioners wiere aklso required to report all their proceed. ings ; and therefore all the evidenice they miight collect, whe- ther parole or otherwise, would form a part of their report. The form of the commission was exactly similar to that which -had been directed to iniquire into the fees-of judicial officers. Under that commission parole evidence had been taken and reported; and as fat as he was able to g,ive an opinion, the samRe couLrse would be adopted by the commissioners to inquire into the state of the Court of Chancery.. Mlr. NVILLIAMIS.-Tben if he understood the right. hon. gent. -crety there were no instructions to the commissioners ito report the evidenc~e they miFbt collect. The right hon. gent. wold be aware th at in a commission directed last year to inquire into the ad- ministration of justice in Scotland, there was a disitinct requisition that the commissioners should set down in writing all such parti- culars as should appear to relate to that subject, This was for a purpose Yery similar to that of the present commission, and they were directed to report their oliinions, tog,ether with all the evi- dence which in the course of their inquiry they should receive. Now,ifin the Chaincery commission there wa any such direction, he (M.r.fWilliams) should be satisfied; but if i was to be left to the dsrein of the Commis.sioners, he &houlsi not bes ntisfied. Mlr. PEEL repeated, that the Commissioners were required to re-. portC all their proceedings, and in short, to do in all respects as the commission to wvhich he had alluded had done. That commaission did report thie evidence adduced before it, and he had already stated his opinion, thlat the same course would be followed on the present occasion. In the evidenceof the Scotch commission, the hortouable gentleman would remember there was an act of Parliament: in this thee asnoe.FOUR PER CENTS. ACTS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR Of the ExcHEQugit, the house went into a committee on the 4 tier cents. acts, which were agreed to, and thie report ordered to be biought up on MVonday. IRISH TIITHE COAIPOSIT ON B3ILL. On the motion of Mlr. GOULBURN, this bill was ornmmitted The right hon. gentleman stated, that the only object of the bill was to give effect to that which had been passed in the last session. Wishing to obviate every feeling of asperity in the discussion, he had endeavoured, by means of amendments, to remove the objec- tions which had been on a former occasion urged sgainst the mea- sure. The penalties contained in the former bill were now only inflicted on such persons as disturbed the vestry ineetings. Per- sons evicted for non-payment of rent were disabled from attend- ing those meetings. In consequence of a communication he bad had with some of the leading prelates of Ireland, who had express- ed their willingness to assume the onms of judging whether the pro- posed composition was fair, he proposed that the regulation as to the average amount of seven years should be struck out. There- fore, if the incumbent could agree with the parishioners and the Bishop, the composition might be effected- After a short conversation, in which Alr. GtATTAar, Sir J. NEWDPORT, and Mr. S Riec took part, the first elause as amend- ed was agreed to. MIr. SPRING RICE moved a clause to the following effect [Thatjustices of the peace and registered freeholders, of the value of 20. and upwards, be allowed to vote at the vestries. tir. GOUIBURJN opposed the clause, on the ground that it would Pive too great a preponderance to small freeholders in vestries. Alr;.S. RICE said, that the class of freeholders wbom he wished to empower to vote in ve.stries were thegreat tithe-payers In X9 cases oltt of 100 there were suits pendinr between them _nd the clergymen. After a few words from hlr. CAREw and Air. GRATTAiN, tie clause was agreedto. On the lause enacting a penalty of 101. in every case of undue as- seasment on the part of the coRector, Air. GRATTAN proposed that the penalty should be increased to 501. ir. GOULBURN thought 501. too great a penalty, but bad no objection to make the bum 201. 5rhe sum of 20L was then inserted in the clause instead of 101., and the clause with that alteratist w*A agred to. The teport su ordele to be reeeiveaoto Mooaty ne%t On the motion of the CHAwCELLolt of the EXCIIEQUEIt, the hp,use reW.Ted itelf into a comietttetonthe 'SAVINOT~BANKS'-AC.T& - -- , The C&H N9iLORof the EXCHIEQUBR said,his firs ob. .jectltariovingthereslution with which he sSould corclude, would be to 'assimilate the law of Savin0a Banrs in England and Ireland. lis next desire was toinakeprovisionfortheofature,inre pectof ti aeposits of friendly societics and chanities. The hgh rate 'of in- teteat (41. 1ls. per cent.)guaranteed to these banksblaw. no. doubt bad-induced those charities, as well as mdividuals Jo a rankorpro- perty never contemplated originally in the schenie, to place Their fundsin these banks; theaggregate amount of which hadthe effect i of burdnin te pub considerably with the payment of a large. interest. ]Ye should propose,as3a limitation,-thatno-fiendlyiso. i ciety, or charity having an endowment, shosid be permlttedio Gsb. scribe to these banks at all, except in cases whete the endow- ment should happen to be so small as to Tender thi4 0xcusion tin necessary. A good criterion as to the smallness of tbe-indowment would be fuTnished bv the fact of its paying or uot paying land-tax; if it paid none, this preposition vould not applr to it. Hospitals, he thought,should also be denied the benefit of these baks: they were liberally supported and richly endowed.through. out the country; if thej were at liberty.to deposit the large surplus funds which some of them commanded; the original object of Sav- ings' Banks,which was advantageous security to the industri poor and labouring clmses, would be defeated in a great me and the public i; some degree be prejudiced. Other friendly socieies and- charitable institutions of a less extensive or opulent character, he should so far limit asto say that in no case should they contri- bute more than 5001. The best way to prevent individuris who had depoitcd largely (without being of that description of person which it was most desirable should be t2re contributors to ttsb"c banks) from doing so hereafter, would be to reduce the interest o, future contributions. Those who had already subscribed, it wtould be obvidtsly unjast to deprive of the benefit which had accred to them. At the same time he should feel most reluctant to destroy, or eten to weaken the confidence which the public reposed ge7teally in tese banks, and which had rendered them one of the greatest blessings ever conferred upon theL country. (Hear.) Notwithstanding that in some instances richer persons might have availed themselves of their advantages, the great majority of contributors woald bt found to be, he thought1 the industrious poor, for whose welfare these institutions were onginallv framed. At present, contributions in the first instance wele lixnited to 1001., and stcceeding ones to the amount of 501. iR any one year. H e should suggest that these sums be reduced to a first contributiu of 501., and succeeding subscriptions not to exceed 301. per annum. To obviate any thig like eyasion of these regulations, he should in.. trodeuce a form of declarations to be subscribed by every contribUtor, stating that he had not contributed to any other than the bank wherein such declaration was subscribed. In place of a mark or a. figure which was at present deemed suffident, he should require the' subscription of the party's name in his own hand-writing. Then, as to the responsibility of trustees, a good deal of diffculty was to be encountered. It had Sornetimes happened that treasurers and se- cretaries had not been quite so scrupulous with the monies of sub- scribers as thev shouldhave been; and wherethone monies hadbeen made saway with, a question had arisen how far the trustees were li. able to the subscribers. ir right be a very nicepoint tedetermine whether, indeed, trustees were or werenot liable; but it might surely be a fair question to ask which ought they tobe. litheywera tobe ren- dered too liable, responsible and proper persons would bedeterred from accepting trusteeships; and therefore he would propose to make them liable only to a certain amount; to have for each bank, 1,s trustees, each of them liable for 501., the aggregate of their lia- bility being for the sum of 6001. These were the princpal regula- tions he meant to introduce into the new measure; together with aE proviso, that in case of any sudden run upon the saving banks, it should be lawful for the Treasury to issue exchequer bills to such an amount as might meet the demands on accountof deposits, ,, their capital inthepublicfundst couldbesold out, when the Treas My ad- Yances should berepaid.There could be no objection,he thougnt,to the preliminary resolution he5hould now move, whicb wvsmerelv torecog- nize theexpediencv of altering the existing law. The right hon. gent. then moved a resolution-" That it is the opinion of this committee that the several acts of Parliament relatiYe to Savings Banks England and Ireland should be amended." After a few words from an hon. member, whose name we did not learn, Sir J. NEWPORT, Mtr. TtREMAYXE, Lord ALTHORP, and Mr. Cu tr7Eis, the resolution was agreed to. The house re- sumed, and the report was ordered to be received on Alonday- next. The law staxips, repeal bill went through a committee-mReport on Monday next. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at HALY-PAST ELEVEN O'CLOCK. HOUSE OF COVIAIONS. FRIDAY. MAY 7 : ..