Negotiations With The Thi...
The Times, 1824-11-29T00:00:00

Scatcely a successful sobbeyto aniy extehtaw ira of late, but it is immediately fellowel by negotiations with the thieves for the recovery of the property; and the only difficulty is as to the amount of the suns, upon the payment of which they will undertake to restore it, it beng considered by the parties robbed better to submit to the degrading condition of compromising wvith the thsicvee, than to a total loss of the whlole property and although the act of ParUnament ltin- der which Jonat an Wild was executed was made for the express purpone of preventing such practices, and is still In fill force, the system is notoriously contiued, and conducted on the part of the thieves with such caution and dexterty, that there is no instance on the books of any conviction under that statutesincehistime. A case has, however, occurred, wlhich, it is to be hoped, may at length tend to put some stop to this growing and alarming evil. Bdrly in the last week, lr.J . C. Crampin, of the firm of Charles- worth and Crampin, silkmen, No. 22, Wood-street, Cheapside, ap- plied to h1r. Alderman Cox, the sitting magistrate for the week at the Guildhall Justice room, for advice and assistance in a case of this description. Mr. Newman the city solicitor, was consulted, and at his suggestion, Mir, CraMpil was desired to draw Itp a Written de- tail of the circumstances as they occurred5 and he accordingly far- nished the following statement * On Taesday evening, the 2&th of October, or Wednesday imorning, the 27th, our warehouse, No. 22, Wood-strect, Cheap. side, was broken into, and silk goods to the amount of fromu 8001. tc 1,0001. stolen therefrom. On th Wetinesday eveniig, Mlr. Salmon, of Bow-street, and MeP. Lidbetter, from Ludgate.hill, came in with Mlr. Charleisworth, and Alr. Salmon questioned our porter for sonie time respecting the robbery. Mr. Charlesworth told me Air. Lid- better introduced him to Air. Salmon nti Alr. Perry. 1 then thought Mr. Lidbetter was an officer, but have found since he is not, but keeps the Dolphin public-hoase on Ludgate-hill. Air. Charlesworth told me thenext morning wecould not have ourbusiness in better hands than Lidbetter's, and he was sure we ahoild have our gootds back, but we must leave it all to birhd and haVi patience. The anonymoua letters which we received I took down to the Man. sion-house,. and delivered into the hands of Air. Cope and MIr. Brown (the City Mlarshals), and Ilr. Harrison (the Mlarehalman). I think this was on the Friday morning after the robbery. In the course of that day Mlr. Charlesworth saw the Bow-street officers, and wished me to go down to the MWansion-house for- the letters to show to AIr. Salmon, &c. I went and Mr.Copegave me them atthe Old Bailey. Mlr. LIdbetter has them now in his po3sssion. On Sa- turday, Alr. I,idbetter told ntl he knewn rzhere the toods weere, and lie wished they had seen the anonynsous letters first, Iesalil he should see tkey Solomon on Sunday,, and Old Crowder. I caled at iMir. Salmon s, in Tavistock.street, Covent-garden, on Sunday morning about 12 o'clock. T here I saw M1lr. Salrnon, Air. Perry, and Mir. Lidbetter. They said they should see Old Crowder Ikey Solomon, &c., &c., that day, at two or three o'clock. I called again in the evening about seven o'clock. Zilr Salmor sacid I had better see lI.d- better directly. I went immedirately to his house. an Ludate-hill. He said al was fight. They had got a clue, they Wereit a right hiunt, and he was sure we should haie the goods back. I said, * Do you really think It is likely ?" Lldbetter said he was sure of it: the thing wasH got so now, they must give up the goods. He said he would lay a thousaand pounds to ten that we ha the goods back in a few days ; I'but,' said he, I'you mu6f snake up your -minud what to give for themn.' fle likewiMe said wte must give him a cor- rect staternent of the goods we had lost, thentimberof yards 3s.well as the amount, and what description of geods ; and he mast have it by II o'clock next morning (Monday.) We took stock, and deli; vered our statement to Mtr. Lidbetter, with 30 sovereIgns, whicih, he said, he must have to give the thieves. This was on the Mon. day. On Tuesday Air. Lidbetter informel me he had seen the party, and Ikey Solomion told him he might havz the goods back for 4501. ; but there was a defidiency in the number of yards of silkn of about a thouannd yards; eleven pieces of Bandanas short, four China crape shiawls, &c. Mfr. Lidbetter likewise told me there were fifty-three pieces of silk on rollers, anid the satins, with every thing else, were in good condition. I said, perhaps it would be better to give 4501. than lose the whole. Mr. Lidbettergaid, ' Be quiet.-we shall have them for about 2001.' We have heard no more of them since. The Bow- street pfficers dclivered their bill in, up to the Cth of November, 211. Ils., and for their troubleand exertions we gave them acheck for 301. Then Air. I.idbetter sends in a bill for eating and drink- in,e, &c., 141. 18s. 81.; an(d for servicem, lie adds 101. more. Ar. Lidbetter holds the 30 soveteigns now, and says his bill must be paid before he will Kive them up, and we may dteduct his bill from the 301., and ptace the balancelto his account. Mr. Lidbetter then told me he had not done with it yet, and he thought we might have the goods yet; but his expenses were stopped-he should charge no. thing more, but he w ished he had put down 201. for services instead I of 101. Independent of these bills, 1lr. Charlesworli has paid 101. for handbillls, &C." (Sigrned) ",J. C. CRAAIPIN." MIr. Crampin having verified this statement upon oath, AMr. Aldermanl Cox. under tire advice of the city solicitor, issued a summons for the attendance of Mlr. Lidbetter, and to preven.t creating toa great an alarm, it was wordedi-" to Rive evidence touch- ing a certain felony conimitted in the city of Londoau " and AII. Lid better accordingly atternded on Saturday. The city sollcitor was aldo in attendance. Mlr. Alderman Cox shortly explained the reAsone that had in- dlced him to send for MIr. Lidbetter, and desired to knYow whether the bill shown to hini was made out by hiim, and for what'purposes the expenses in It were incurred.. The first item was " Oct. 27, gupperst 46. 6d., beer Is., wine 12s." Air. Lidbetter said-I furnisheA the a unt, And the bupper was for the Bow.street oflicers, Perry and Salmod. The next Item was for lunchi, wine, &c., amounting to 11. tis. The parties present at this, Mrt Lidbetter said, were the Bow.street officers and their men, and Mr. Crampin's partner, MIr. Charles- worth; but he knew but little himself aL.to the items In the bill, bitt his waiter could give a better-account. A charge of 2L 12s., " cash paid," In: said, was to a party for in- formation, and the money was paid fe the Bow-streetofficers. Old Crowder, he said, *as not present at any of the diners, but Ikey Solomons was at some of the lunches at Salmon's, the officer. He (M1r. Lidbetter) saw Solomons.afterwards at Charing- cross, and he was to have come to hia house; but did nor, Every thing that wlS charged for in his bill had been futnished wlth the knowledge and by the orddr of Mr. Charleswotth or Air. Crampin. Mlir. Alderman Cox.-1 now think Jt necessary in order to put you upon your guard, to tell you, tUr. IAtlbtettt, that this is a very sorious chiarge against you, and one that I have determined to follow up as far as the law directs This system of carrying on negotIations with thieves, for the parpoepf getting back the stolen property, has been carried to a most alarming height, and tends more than any thing -else to the enconragement of thieving, sald must, if possible, be put a stop to. You ante charged with having.taken money,w give to the thieves, under the pretence of getting the property stolen from Mr. Crampin's warehouse back again. .lr. Lidbetter replied, that every thing had been fair and honour. able in his conduct, and that he bad done nothing wlthoetthe flow. street officers; and that every step be had taken was with the know- ledge and consent of Mr. Crampin or his partner. Mr. Crampin's statement was then read, and he was again sworn to the truth of it. AMr. Lidbetter allowed that it was pretty nearly a cotrect accoant of -what had happened - but there were some thtngs wrong. Ikey Solomons told him he thought-he coutd get the-goods back for about 4001. Mlr. Crampin, being then upon his oath,, was examined by the City Solicitor, and stated that he gave hMr. Lidbetter the 30 sove. reigns expressly to give to the thievest that it was expected they wrere to get theirgoods back fortbe20OL, and that he furnished him- self with twro hundred soyereigns, a"~ Bank notes, he was told, would not do, because the memn.y was to be given to the thieves.' The 30 sovereigns he paid to Lidbetter was part oC that sum, and the other 170 was to remednin their cash-box, as It mfght be wanted at a moment's notice, to be pald when the goods were returned. In answer to the question from the City.Solicitor, -AIr. Cram pin said "11 paid the 30 soverelgns to MIr. Lidbettsr, with ibe understanding that they were to begiven toSulomotis to be given to thethlevee,upon his undertaking that he would get the goois back agin." The City Soleitor nowv read the clause' ofthe-sct 4tht Geo I., cap. 11., as follaovs :-".Wherever any person taketh oiey or tewrward, dtirectly or indirectly, under pretence or upon account of belping any person or persons to anystolen oodsor chattelg, unlesa-t srtch)ersor doth apprchend'or cause to lie a prehended such felon who stole the same, and-cause such felon to be brought to his tril - nd gifeevi- dence against Isltn shaill be giilty of felony, asa auW;i ith pains and penalties of felony, in the same manner as If egch *li:det had himself stolen such goads or chattels ;" and then procceded tod tsice that so muct of this-act as Inflictid tsepunbihinent of death-for tis- oflence had been repealed by the-atatute lst Geo. IVY, ca.-I1il, and in its stead enacted ilip punishment of transportatien -for lie or for- any term ndt less than veren years asthle Court-rnidiht a d 5 - r. Lidbettersaid he hadact:0 entirely -ider-the d tcn of thc gentlenien - and th'e Bow-street. officerL lie-took the- thirty sovereigns?owasd payin- the bi;Uand the expejme- lithale 1rwyoS thought t90 much,hle- was willing to relarsi it. -Thie City .Solicitor.-The 1law e~ys you-mus6t-e ta'.;e-meey on- Mr.ldb:ttere,er tblewitsgatPSic to;4ttsbntlwiXea thdir goods back. I did my duty a I was directed, as far as I "could, and i have nothing to fear. There has not been one shilILng of the SOLpaid to the thieves, I took it only in case wo wanted it, but thetieves,, feifraid t 5trust .s. 1 hold myself accountable. fat ihe money. I intended Wh en they brought the geo&s'te have .sent fos an offiler and- taken thepartieainto cnstoay4 but Ikey Solomonn would- not truRt u. *Theso- gentlemen kno7. all tha: I know.: T' have done nothing *lwfthbut them. I believe Crowder told yotr!partner,Mr.Charlesworti,, thatthe go9ds were taken away In X esrLh -'- In explanation of his knowledge of the deficieney in the goodg, he said that he ehecked the liit the gentlemen had given him of -the goods lost, from what Ikey Solomons told him, and the checked list he th6 ti lie gave to Air. Charlesworth. That gentlemna was now sent for, and it ajpeared he had returned- the list to Mr. Lid- bptter, who suggested that Ir. -Charleaworth lnew every part of the trinsaction. From the-part, however, tlat he hael taken in it, the Alderman didl hot think it proper in the present staze of the business that he should beexanitned, and he accordingly gave no explana_ tios. An officer was tsent to M r. Lidbetters - houwc for the anony- rnsousletters alluded'to, bui upon their production thley contained, a ohing of importance worth notice. Mr. Alderman Co% noivsaid, " At present, Mr. IAdbetter stands committed. fer further exaeuinatton on the charge of felonv." M Ar. I,idbetter asled if he could not be ba.iled; he could give se- curity to aly amount. The City Solicitor replied, that the charge be-ng for felony, the magistrete conld take no bail. The only way in which he could be relieved from the charge was-by producing the thieves and giving etdenee against them, In which case he himself woula be exeusetl. - This of course he professed hinisdelfunable to do,and was remand- ed for fitrther examinatinn.: . - NEGOTIATIONS. WITH VHB TfHPVPJV FOR TIlB RECOVERnl Ofi STOLtiV PytoAipR-.