House Of Commons, Friday,...
The Times, 1824-06-05T00:00:00

The SPEA1;En, was summoned to the House of Lords to bear the Roval assent given by commission to several bills. On his return, he read the titles of those bills, which will be found in the Lords'report. Mr. J. WORTLEY presented a pefition from Leeds, against the general gas bill. Ir. FANE presented a petiLion from Henley-upon-Thames, re. lative to the case of the missionary Smith. Alr. EVANS presented a petition from Broadstairs, praying for the abolition of negro slavery. Air. S. RICE presented a similar petition from Dablin; a pe. titioa from Alnwick, praying for an inquiry into the case of MIr. Smith; and a petif.on from the Catholic inhabitants of Limericl, in favour of the Catholic claims. Sir J. NEWPORT supported the petition, and expressed his concurrence with the sentiments of the petitioners, and the termns in vhlch the wvere couched. Mr. C. fiUTCII INSON slso called the attention of the house to the claims of the petitioners. He thought that at thi, time, whent themninisters, by requiring the renewal of the Insurreciion Act, hadl. admitted the deplorable condition of Ireland, it was absolutely ne. (SEF, SUPPLE ETBAr..) cessary rcief of. ihe Catbolics,, by hich nea: lene. thal condition could- bea Ieoratediln Tnquill ty xc' Mlr. S..RlCE;obseve4, thatthelmoderate tone of the petition en- :Atled it to that anprobatiora fromt the house whic6h it had,met with eahcwhrTliT'pefitionwas then-ordered.to be *inted. M1r. RAlSDEN Olresented t fromn. I-qalion, praying for 'fl iXigUly Snto'l SIr Sni'scase<.- . : . -.. :-- - Lotd MtlTLTONpresented:apetition- from-a pa'sh in-the north idingofYr:hire, praying.for thegrada ahltion of:slavery. Ir. DAWSON pregentd a petition frori t-he Fieemesonadf 'Ire- lahd, Praying t b_ puron the sane footing.To- those of Eigland, namely, Ct bgi etxnpted from the operation of 'the acs respotcting secet rocifl; Sir JOHN After a-few worda from. .l r.GRATTAZN, Sir N Po T, *tid Mr. J. -SniT, who concarted in thinking that.the law in Ire- and reouirej tome modification in. thlis respect, the petition was br(Algblupand read . - On theo rtion that it doEe.on the table, Iir DA, SON said, he should wish to see an end of all party 3S-03ations lii Irelaid, but he did vot mean. that he should wish to see the Orange associations abolished while other associations were allowed to continue in aCtion. . . 'The petitioamvas o-dered-to be printed. - .ir J OR-ANGE ASSOCIATIONS. d gave- notice, that on. Thu:sday. ney.tie 1701114nov Urat the pjetitron ;gainst the. Orange- associations in Ireland. should a referre4 to. the comnmittee on the-state ot Ereaind, anld thet-tihait-omtnittee be directed to inqPire how far the act of lsist tacon for -the suppression of secret societica- hxl been carried Sir R. SEAIV presented.a petition from ithe harmber ofe 'iom. meree inl I2uhti, against the warehousino bil; also apetition frotn the guild- of curriers.in Dublin,pr g that they tnight be put on the .same footinir as thle curriers of lngland. Mr.. .MUNDY prsentes a. petition front llelborn against negro slavery. Iord NUGE&NT prserated similar petition from the town and neighbourLobd of Aylesbury PROTESTANT DISSENTERS; MIr. HUMIE presented-a-petition from the Protestant Dissenters of severil denominations in Chielhester; praying for the abolition of the test act. Mr. J. SMIT' supported the. prayer of the: petition. The act rost absurd, and was reallv a disgrace to the statutebooke -He soped to slee morcof such petittons presented. ta the house and that it an early day in next session the subject would be brought before -iliehouse. Sir J. NEWPORT icmarked, that Dean Sivift, when speaking af the rest endecorporation acts, had expressed a very atrong:opinion that if ase laws wv;ere repealcd.theDisstentersvwonlrinia short tune taCce5fl5 overthrowing thtechureh establishment in rliatceuntry. They~,c howevevr, repealed- in the year 1782, by one.of the slort7 it rtctSil the statnte book. Ic was, however,, wl khowtt, that hey had been productive of no such eff cts as those dreaded by the sarned Dean. " To ehorw' coritinied the hon. baronet, "how litle was lnowni of the repeal of those act by his lajesty's Ministees in is countrv, 1 inav mention, that within. thessfive years, I wa peakiag Sto one of 'his Majesty'cMHinssters on thesubject ofCatholic smancipalion, and he told tmdthktOne of hisgreitestobjections to hlsatnaeasijre was, that if it were carried, it would be inpossibleito 2reveat thes zepea of the test and corporatwan acts- measure by :hich the Dis,senters inlud beenabi'ees,.in a short tirne, t destroy the Protestant chutchiof Ireland' I told him, that the measure which he spoke with so inuch alaim had beaien alteadj aarried-tbat the test aei tcorporation acts in Irdlarnd'had been-repealed, -so far _s Erotestant Dissenters were concerned, 40 years ago. l1e would not 3elieve the fact at firstaend was only at length convinced by my pro- lacing the-statute. ( hear.) Suchis,tlicefect of being led bypre- ldice, rather that by judgment."' (flear.) Air. WAL. SMMT4 cionc,iired'with' the prayer of the petition; snd at the same time gave notice, th'atsoon after the holydays, he vould pres ent alarge petition n thesaine subject, and take ^bat op. rerturety of calling the atter.tion of tbe honse to the question. MIr. BRIG.T exr,ressed himself favourable to the petitiori. The rase of the Protestanit Dissenters was, he thought,, very difierent 'rom that of the Roman CathoBlcs. The honse sbould recollect how Mnuch of their dciv liberties they owed to the ancestors of those Dis. centeris. Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it dixzracef'l to our system zf lawrs, that such degradinrF tigmas should be fixed upon so highly respectable 'and so inoffensive a cass - of the commuunity. The peiotido was ordered to be print&d- IMPRESS.MIENT OF SEAMllEN. Ilr. EHU'ME presented a petition from 3,000 seamen, lightermen, soatmen, ship.carpenters, calkers, and others connected with the chipping in the port of London, against the practice of impressing leamen into the Royalnavy. Thallonourable memnfio observed, that Ls hle would have an opportanity of submnittig his opinions on the tOth instant on this practice., which Wsis 'a blot oln our Statute-hook, ie would go no farther at present than 'to sav,' that now, whilst the :nuntrywas atpeace and woimmediatmprospect efgoirig to war, it was :he propertime fordie houseto censider how this evil mightbe reme- died;anndhefeitsatisfiedaplancould withbout difliculty bh devised,by rhich 0oreoenient could, if they did not remove the evil altogetlier, at least mitigateits severity. Sir L COFFIN thouight that until All the stianien of the couitrv were enrolled, the system of imipressmentn must go en. He had when carly ia the service, been engy.ge'd in that unpleasant butatill acCr duty and hetinas satfsfie&that the seamen of the country gunerall uld'prefer the systemrr of irpiipssnent to that of being enrolled_.The petition was ordeted to be printed. TH) E:ARL OF IMLAR A message from the Lords announced that their lordships had pZuSsed an act disneasing with the faking of certain oaths by PMr. iXrskine, prevzousVy to the passing of an act for the restoration of the -t'e of which his ancestor *ad been deprived ; and they pray- Di the concurrenez of fhe-Connmonii. MLr. PEELJ moved tbat the bil be then taken into consideradon, and he trusted that the house would Pot object to the- bill being pssed throush all its stages. this evening. Byan act of James 1. twe believe) it had beenmenacted that no person whose blood had been attainte- could berestored tothe. rank which bisancestor had held, until lie had taken certain oaths. It would require therxeaence of Ill r. Erskine in London to take thdse oaths; but in. consequence of his age and infirm. srate of health, that could not be done with con- venience. The present bill, therefore, was to dispente writh the taking of the oaths atpresent. Mr. BROUG11AM seconded the motion. He fully conuMred in the principle of the measure for restoring the forfeited titles, which gave-rse to the.presentbill; but there were certain lioita. Solu in those billa whichuvoulddbe thcsubject of remark when, they came befdre-the house. He concr'rred entitely in the propriety of not requiring thattendance at- present of. the very.estimable ndi. vidual whose family title was about to be restored. - The bill then went through all its stages, and was passed. The vagrant bi7l ras reported, and ordered to- be read a third time to-morrow. PUNISHMENT OF TRANSPORTATIoN. 3Mr- PEEL,-on moving that this bill be conmitted2 stated tlieob- ject of- it. 1 t-was, he said, to renevt the, transportation act,, wvhich would expire in the present year-,. and to simplify some of its enact. meats. Forinerly.convictssweretransportedfrom-thiscountryto North America, and it vfas the practice that-before the sailing of any ship, the King-by 2anorder in Council used to appoint the pardcularplace tO w.hich th convits on board- were to be conveyed. It wac, there- fore, nectssaryas the-lav now stood, that a council should be called before the sailing of every ship; but as-this might-not beconvenient, the present act gave to his fllajesty a general., power of nomi. nating the place to whieh tb-- 'convicts should be sent, without the necessity of assembling a council for that pur. pose. This biM also did away with the necessity of a parti. cular conitract being entered intto withl every county for the transport of its.cout-sicts.. It went, likewise, to reguhate the treatment of con- victy. TrantportationiV3as in itself 3very urequal punishineit. -o a married man, of generally regular habits, or-with afamily of eigfht er ten dhi1dra, transportation was a.severe punishment; wbile, to the young tingle man,, of irregular h4bits, it was-matter -of not veryT great regret. By this bill, the Government of New South Aaqes would beempowered to send convicts of the latter description todistant settlements within- the colony, while convicts of lass vidous habits ahd more reguar conduet would he allowed to zeAide at or rcar Porr Jackson. It ahould beknuwn thatit was in- tendea to make transportation a mnuch more severe mode of punish- mcnt than.it had geumrally-een hiitherto; and thatthat.severity would be pioportioned to the cofiducf of the cbnvicts theinselves. Alr. SCARI,EITTT'tiou&ht i- dbjectionable that Governtment abonld have the power of Increasing or dininishing punishment after tlfe sentenee oftheiudge'; it would takeaway that certaicny of punishniernt which ought to be a main objectoftaU law. V-. PEEl-shorrly defended the proposed alterations. Mr.-WII11aOT'HORTON said, that under the present cir- cumstances of New South Wales, transportation was actually a. remptatloleto tbe commission of crime. TJnder the new regulations, not only would convicts gencrally be scattered over the country, in- atead of being. allowed to-remain in the vicinity of great towns, hut the worst portion of them would be placed by -themselves in one of the depen ences of New Soutb Wales,. calle4 Norfolk Ijslnd. After a shorL conversation between Mr. W.iREt,Mr. Osrps Mllr. Aldermani WooD, Lord S1VANLRY and Mr. PEEL, the bill 'was cobnn,u-e d, end the report was ordercd to be received to. EDUCATlION IRENLAND.- In answrr to a quetion from-Sir J. NxWpoRT, llLr. PEEL said, that he proposed to give the fullest effect to all that the rightbhonourable baronet had proposed relative to the schools in Ireland. It was intended that the commission of inquiy should issue immedtsly.l INEW CHURCIEgSI3iLL. [ The MfL4NC ILOWA of the EXCHEOTER moved the order of the day for receiving the report f the committee on the abovebill. Colonel DAV'IES objected to the bill;' and' mov'ed as an amend- ment, that the reot be received this day six months. - ' AIr.LEYCESTER A'pported theaeeadmerit, and saidthat they %7anted preachcrs, anld not chuiches.instructors, and notbricks and isorfar. -- - Mr. U. C'OOPER defehdeA'thebbc bill tbehbt-means of'asisting the nationalrchurch, and preventing. the continsance of that want of aecconnno-datln ustich' tended. tO wean maLiy from the establishled chureh..end fill tecong.regattons of the-Dissenters. ' MIr. 'flUME defeided the coniduct of.tbe Diissterst . and con- tended hor.the -'ight of that Wody to deliter.thei senti,uents upon he church estalishment wohenever they pleased,- unles,j indeed, they vereto be fleeced -of theirnoney.withoutcronplaint; Hiestrongly pposed thilbelRlas h ylessxctutharxbefore nld Io encourage a proflipategexpenditure of the public money for artial purpoWEs. -TMis work ought-to be effected'bv-privateeor,tri. ution, and he woiff not Vrote .one shihuirg of the. uyblic nmonev for out-or' the pockers of the Dissenters and.Catholics. Not'ones fillirig hsould hf:veh.een given to any parish in the kingdonli for this :urpose, untfl, it was pre.ously I ascertelncd that they wewre .' nable to- apply themsel4es withl chisllehs, 'iich he knew tihosp 'ho wsated them- u'onld supply, if they werci per,mitted-to select seir own pattos; btt .this bils went to increase-ehuych patronage hereitotughint rtobe increitd; andnot to promote,as wnasassert. 1 1, the true interests of religion. on these several grounds he prol ested against the motion. Mr. B'COOPER explained. Mr. CA-RUS NVIlSON supported the bill, which he knew Vwas 'nucb comaendcIby. a large body of the clergy. He did not think that large sums of money c6i6i.'be ;better applted than as thisbil pointed hut: flIr.2lErYC:ESFER' exrJaanted. -Mr. HU,D3O'N (4JRNRY was apprehensive that the money wvould-be, (i bal Fa%tiibuied. :- Tbep B1] tgc, NLLfOR bfi the -EXCHEQUER said, .that; the comr i-0i e - undaer- tfe' bill had thb descretioh of distributing or le drng"Qemoney aec.ordingto their,view of thenmeans- and secu- ritof.tpirticulrai i es 4ridSh?4OHN` 'NE R T 'edniahe?f the1inctflsistelnc,Yof maig the CAtholc.populitinn:of lrdarid pav for'boilding Pro- i6tant-churtch'es lhe extendon 'the 'nev charche in -ngland ougbet to bimadein edifeternrmanticrfroi thatpronidedbythe bill.' Hebwitt.apprehensive that this granC would be abu'el he' as a similar grant h&dtbe'enin Ireland. 'rt wis 'reiilk estraordinary to hiat e'dvoeates of serestablished:church'' talkin of the great; iiberality with "whfel tijey"teeatedf'their diaientink'bretlirebs wvhe-it. was 'an untisputed:fict, thatin -France'and' Hungary,both Catholiet cunitti'e,.the tastors of the Protestant church wese all sapported- at the expenSe ofhestate.' . - MIr. V. FITRGERALD supported the measure. Mr. GRATTAN tools the same view of' the subject as his light hon. frierV'nthe menmieg for WVaterford. ' Mr. S. PH ILI5.ifelt that' it was a.&kdiirace to tEe' house that no grant should.be' made for the religious instruction of the popula; tionof Irpland, where-such aid was particiilarlywarvted, and:yet that 00,09o.0 1ihotu he granted for the purpose of erecling new churches in 3ixgland, in places where 'tle inhabitants declared that such buildings were not wanted;' AIr. M1'OI%!CK would support; this measure if' be ihought that it would conducc to' theinterest of the established'churcl. He could not, hovwever, convince:himself that it was-required by the interest of the establisliment and he' must therefore pause before he gave' it' hIs support. He complained that the chusch of lEg- land had not, at present,.its roots in the affections of the peo- ple, and attribatediits, unpopulatity to want of' teal' in its teachers, who, however respectable th'ey night 'be ij other attainments, were certainlk' deficieht in attention to-the spiritual wants Fof 'their flocks. Adverting.to the manner in wbhieh We imoney already grs,nted' had been expended; he obsetved that' largeisums had beeni advanced to parisbes. where the inhabitants were rich-ai, for instance, thleparish of.Marylebone, Lo4don, and'of.' ,in Bath; butItat nothing ast all liad heen advanced'to parishei equally large and' populdfls, where the iblnabita'its we're'peor, as",fe instance. thodparlshof'SLc (*iles.in-tbe-flelds, London. lieattwibat1dEthis circamstacetotthd regulations o) the bill itsdf5 wliich zwere, in his' opinion, exceedingly faulty. 'lI believed that if the 1tetliodists 'were allowed' totbild churches,, and to retail the patropage Qf'thtm in their' own bands, it.would bring-baci a numerous aTnd rerpcqtablb'class of Dissenters to the pale of the cliuich. ' 'In 'cbndusion, he wished the bil to be postponed till. next session, in order that the subject of it might un- dergo the furtherconsideration of Govemment. Sir L COFFI.N'aimidst loud cries of " Qucstion."_4 I say, let us go on, and have tbe churches." ''he house then divided, when there appeared, F6r the amendment4 9 I Against it, 421 MIajority, 33. The report was 'then broughr up, and the bil was ordered to be read a thirdltime on Thursday next. The coanty gaols billwas read a third time, and passed. The report on'the-cocoa-nuts bill was brought up, and after a few words, from Lord A Ai)IlLToxN and the CHANCELLOR of the ExcimoQuEn, agrrced.to. The house went into a omrnittee on. the Newfoundland judica. ture bill. In the committee,'the bilf received a few verbal amend- ments. The house then resumned.-Reportto.morrow. The combination laws' repeal bill was considered'in committee. A few unimportant verbal amendments wereproposed by Ir.4HuxE, and agreed to swb ilrentio.' The house then resumed; the report was received, and the bitU ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. IlMr. WESTERN, in postponing the farther consideration of the qualification, of jurors',bill until konday se'nnight, dweltat some, length ontbe necessity ofthe measure. Itwas expedient, if possible, that thebillshould be passed'.this session: but if gentlemen feat any scruples-on the subgect, he would let it lie over until the en, suing session. All the information he had collected. on the subject confirmed him in. the' opinion that the proposed alteration in the law was very desiraple. Mllr. CR1 PPS wished. the bill to be passed as soon as possible, because it would be productive of great publicbenefit, in rendering a most desirable class of persons eligible to the situation of jurors. Sir E. KNATCHBULI, as we understood wished the measure to be postponed until next session, in order that it might be ma- ture y considered. Afer a few words from Alderman WooD, the fartlier consider- tion of. the report was postponed till Monday se'nnight. The masters and workmen bill went through a committee. The report was received.-To be read a third time to.morrow. -The horses' slaughterisg bill went through a committee, proforrne. "On bringing up the report, Mlr. W. WY,NN expressed his disapprobation of this species of legislative enactment. 'Mr. R. SMllITE! considered the measure as unnecessary. Under the bill to prevent cruelty toanimalsj cognizance might be taken of the offence against bhich this enactment was directed. 'Mr. RIi MARTIN said,-thathe had been solidted by a number of highly respectable persons to introducethis measure. One gentle- man, 'a'distillerof large'property in the neighbourhood of White. chapel, where those slaughtering houses were chiefly situated, in. formed him thsat he was obliged to remove, with his famUily, four miles into the country, in consequence of thedisgusting scenes whihs they were daily obltgedto witUrss in those, haunts of cruelty.. Gen- tlemen mistook the matter greatAy, if they suppsed that it was a-fit objectfirridicule_ Hlaad they witnessed that whichehebad observed with' his own eyes, they wo'.dd,not refuse their seepport to the biLL He had been to see' this slaughterihg 'nouse in the neighbourhood of Wthite- chapel. H6 there beheld eight or ten horscs_some with their eyes kInocked out, others hopping on three lezs, all miserably maimed, which liad upon an average been kept there several days' without food. He gav the man, in waiting a few shillings to pocure two or three trusses of hay, which were- brought accordingly. The horses, instead of their natural deliberate way of feeding, ran at the bay, and gorged it greedily, like hounds. The man who was stand. ing by said-' There now, vou'd much better gi'd me the money to drink." " I would see you d--d first," was his reply; upon which the ruffian said, that he would trample dawn the tlaS and make it impossible for the horses to eat it. This 'compelled him, to compromise with the fellow, to whom he save 2s.; but he tookn ample vengeance upon him afterwards, by sending more than 200 letters, appointing htim to comte to various parts of the tovwn Ito bring away na osand horses. Surelv every gentleman ought lto be anxious to save horses that sadhbeen instrumental to his use anid pleasure from so appalling a fate. For his own part, he never allowed a horse, over which he had once thrown his leg as its owner, to be sold; and he had left di. rection in his will for having them shot if his successor should. at- tempt to do so. The hon. gentleman related several other instances of outrageous' cruelty practiied-upon. horses which were sold. for slaughter; and invited thebon. andleared member for Lincolni who Ihad opposed tbe-bill on the ground o? the stvle of its composinon, to assist himn in fitting it for the approbation of Parliament. Mlr.. H. DRU MMAlOND saidthat therze was onesmall.defect in the preparation of the bill, which had escaped the penetration of the author. Though there wecre new. duties prescribed in regard to the slaughtering of horses, there were no penalties in the bill for neglect. ing them. MUr. B. hfAllTIN begged the comsritee and the lion. member to delay their objections unt'il the sppearance oftthe bill with its, amend- ments. The bill then passed through the committee, in which several arnendlments were made. After whicb, it was orderedl to he recom. mitted on Wednesday next. The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the house ad. joumed at a quarter before eleven o'clock. HOUSE OF COINIBIONS. FRIDAY. JuNE 4.