Tithes In London.
The Times, 1824-12-11T00:00:00

Yesterday, pursuant to a circular sent round from the Tithe' Commnittee of the Corporation to all the parisbes in the city of Lon. don afl'ccted by the act of the 27th Henry VIIL, requeting tbemr to attend by depuE ion,zaudconifer with the Cormittscas to te best mode of proceedng, a -meeting wRAS held in the Common Council Chambeer, (iuildbai Amongst othier parishes which sent deputa~. fins ter wee resntdeptis fomSt. Botolph' Aldgati; St. lloo~p. llsopgatt Aihlios.he.cs; Allhslows, Lonhdonu. wall St GieBs Cripplgat; S. (regory-by-St.-P4ittd'; St. Bene Fik, c. ele a,ari St (Hve,B.-t..street. After the deptie ha asemledin heComon ounilChanmber, the nlem.. hersof he ommn Cuncl wo frm he 'ite Committee tool; the.Ir seats. dilr. HURtCOaRn! presided zs Chairmanl, and in opening thebu. sinoes of the day, he cxprMsssd the gratification he felt aLt pereejy.. ing, from the numneroas attendanae; tbe.strofli anfd general feeling'- which was excited on the importunt stritet thsroughout the city' of London.- Fie felt the more gratified, because;X ha:4 jsinself suffer,. ed for many vesrs under the oppressive systemi ";2b atws h object to get illviatedorreo .liehbad suffered petOiarilytUS the amount of upwards of 7001., under the aleged sanction oa It grievous statute. He -stated, as he was fully empowered to tlo, tQa the Corporation were ready to aflbord the most extensive and liberal sup-a,rt in tbeir power to aul who were suffTering under the act, and in tteir enideavyours to remove it, would giye either peciniary or pro. fessional aid. lie hoped, that now that the grievance was so severely felt as to mnale all the parishes come forward in concert, eectr,jl steps, would be taken for its complete removal. What con-se they should puMe, it was for the meeting to determine. Mlr. TXSOMAS SAUNDERS. ant the part of his clients, said,thetthe inhabitants had been subjected, in various places, to such rapid and extensive increases in the claim for tithes, they were zubject tosti1chL tinmereiful exactions, anil the disputes sail animosities Inevitably the result between thec parishioners and their ministers would be so lntrtrtnale cht i wa ioosibl brthngs to remein in the state in wichthe wer atpreent.(Her, ear.) (Joe iruPsopriator agree to ake nlyacertinaountfromthie inbabhitants, whto thlea thoghtthe wre uit sae bit uonhis decease, another came in, whowoud nt ubmt t te peviusageeement, and inimdlaiisl doubed hs exctio. Tha wa a sateof uncertainty which, if it were unaccompanied by auyigrievouts demand, called uponi them all to rally roend each other or general protection. They should come to an unanimnous determolnatioN, not only to dlefend at the general ex. pense the individuals attacked in ~aw for the 2s. 9d. In the pound1but to pursue the lay impropriators in Parllament, and obtain the positi-we repealoftbealleged -enactment. Those whom he represdthed would be happy to unite in any measure forreaaizingtheeobject,butitwas neces- sary to proceed step by step. fe would speak oftieaclergy as abotdy wlith the greatest respect. There weremany, htowever, who hela a rod over the citizens to comnpel the payment of tha inordinate sumsa ex- acted, wlhilst the greater number acted moderately and satisfactorily themselves, and we-re ready to interpose with the lay impropnators in behalf' of the poorer citizens, to promote peace and uInanimity, It was sad that there had been no litigation of an extensive nature~ and that in many, pluce the inhabitants were qut.otn tor the full sum of 2s. 9d. in the postod. He denidthe assertion. .i litigation wasi most extensive and ruinous, and nothing but feaLr pre- vented the inhabitants generally, front doing their hest to resist tle demands- They did not resist from any unworthy motive. Tae general sentiment wag fair anid honourable towards the clergy. whiom they would remunerate Juttly, egually, and hono7rubly ; but they could not endure the mordtnste exactions o thnsa wgho enf-orced the act. (Hegr, bear). lilith respet to their immediate pro.. ceedings, althouigh they were agreed as to the generail principlits of resisting the proceedings under the 117th of Henry VIII., yet it would be difficult to frame any bill whichi wouid give general relief. EHe was of opinion that distinct bills would be necessary to mneet the dis- tinct and exceedingly varied circtemrtance of each parish ; and al-. though they mighkt unite ini going to ParIliament for general rtlief against thie enactment, yet he considered that they must aftervrards proceed separately. It would, be'proper thtat the general sentimaent should now be collected as to the necesity of going to Parliaotens, aLnd after the deputations had reported to their parishioners the. general feelistg on the sub~ject, they might obtain. inswtrcions tp act; when happy would it be- for the people-happy would it be for the church-if tne-Y could be brought to join hatnd in hand in s-ome ap- islicationi to P4rliatment that would restore peace throughaout the city. T1derrnn VAIT1r%MAX said, he could nothelp congratulating thle mneeting on the feeling which was, every-where manifested on this sub.. ject, because the oppression could not be successfully combated, an. legs thie qluestion were taken up by the city at layge. lie believedl that it was at his suggestion to an sndividual who came before himn whnstigin his judiclal capacity, that the first met ting on. thin sujc okplace. WVhen he presided as chiet magiu trase, sevreral cases ef this nature cume before itim, and from what he witneaised on those occasions, he was conninced that it was not in the power of any individoaiUp contest tke right with the clergy or imprepriators. He had oni one 'rcausion decided in favour of ati iudividual against the claim of the church, although it was rat resisted by the-de-fend.. ant, and be waeethanked for his decision as forakidnd, as wella ajust, act ; but it appeared aLfterwards that it was fraught with ruinous consequences, for when he refused to compel the defendiant to,pay the 2s. ted., a suit in Chancea, was institutedi against him. The origin of the claim, asad the vlidity of the statute, had been so well investigated, taat it was not necessary for him to say any thing on that head. He was convinced that the act was never intended to be enforced by the clergy, even when it was% made; that the decree hadl never beea enrolled, aned that the clergy, never intended that it shouldbe enrolled. It was clear thatatthe tirmethe sutnof2s. 9d. was given, it was anot only given for the support of -t he clergy. but the Tmornteaance of the poor, endI the repaira of the church. The two, latter objects had been subsequently provided for by the church and the poors'.rates. -The parishes, he thought, mnust not act singly, or they would be overcome ; and we understood the worthr Aldcrar to, instance the resistance made to the-Fire Act. Clergy,ihten in 1817 they applied to Parliament for an increae ofiheir stipends, aus a proof of the beneficial efrects arising from the co-operation of the perishes. He added his testimony to the general feeling, that a fair and liberal alowanice should bemadetotheclerg. Onethinghewiss-edmostps.. ticularly to impreasupon theminds of the meeting-.namely,4-hegpeat nweessity of acting thmoughout upon genieralprinciples, antiof avoiding- any partiaLl or narrow.munded policy. Some parishes might be inclined to say-" Ourrclergyman ista moderatet, gentlemanly, estimable mnan. Underbhim w e are secure from anyoexactions or any injustice. Wte have notlhing to complain of then : why should we concern ourselves about the ques-tion ?'" The answer was,that what was the caue of others to. slay, might be their aown to-morrow; that if they were in good condi. tton now, under their present rectors, since life was uncertain, thecy miAght, under the opressive statute, be made to endure all the op. p restive exactions, W bc, were now visited upon others. (Near, her"and aprlause) Every parish not protected by thae Fire Ac,ogt rth rtcino its ol*n interests, setting aside thie mnore liberal view of the question, to join mainfully in the endeavour to get rid of the grievous measure to which ther' were cqual! sbjected. WVith respect to tlhe clergy, when the sa'w the public fZelng so str,ongly excited on the subject, they would feel that it was their interest to jorin in some measure for the beenefit of their Rlocks. It should be recolected, however, tha the prced- ings under tke act were not those of the clergy as a Ioy-ts those clergyen wvho did exact the 2s. 9d. were exceptions, and it wan the lay nimpropriators whose interests were not thoseof the church, that formed the majoritv. He concluded by expresing his- conviction, :bat the corporationi would secondl any application to Parliament, Rot onl by co-operation, but by libera pecuniary aid.(Appause. HL expressea his willingness to make every ex- ertion in hiis powier to promote the general object of the aggreved parishes. One gentleman of the deputation from the pariah of St. Olave, Hart-street, began to speak of the particular hsardships endatred by his contituentss, when 5Mr. Droa sfpoke to order, and sad it wouldl be an improper waste of timne to discuss particular greane n the present state of the proceedlings They should conge themselves to the considers. tion of general questions. (Hlear, hear.) M5r. EtRBH, Alderman of Norwich, who is the o-wner of consi- derbleprpery~nth pais ofSt.Boolih,Aldgate, and who is oneof he epuatin fom hatparsh,begedsome isforatliaon as to Mr. AUNERSrea at rea legththe opinion of the Recorder, whodecare~ tataftr vry ongcosideration, he was most de-. clue asso is cnvitio ofits svsidly Air. Sautnders observed, that the great object now, dmtigheality of the decree to he doubtful, was to apply to Palaet,ante case of doubtful right, to have it at once set at rest. HsrL ea dir. Dxxow said, he considered th9lim ai. in the pound excessive. For his purt, he would prefer setting the question at rest for evr; and that could not be done by making agreements writh the clegy as suggestel hmy Air. Saunders. It was obvious, end indeed mate fexperience, that any agreement with theclergy would not hind the successors of those who had only a life-interest. (Hear, her. t was A grievous thing that any of the clerg should attac-k teir 'iarishioners and hehoped that anyneceasitywtbiehmight esist for doing Iso woulra be totullv prevented. Iswste eea nteres of the ciy of London, tlhat the power of exacting the deman o 2s. 9d. in the pound Should be done away wide. This mae%- sure could not be effected by any prticular parislh, nor was it fair, that any particular body should have soch a contest. Asi to the clashing of particular interests, much lid, been said, butt he requested the mneetinig to exert their common sense on the sutbject. The general clafmn was reasonablet, andl night be accomplished by a general application. (Hear, hear.) They musit not in their proceedings sabt their c?es to the interets of the church: they should recolect that there were Many noblemen and. clergymen who possessd livings and church property, and might be alarmeda for its safety if thretdmntod made was not medemaa rate, or did not marnifest a fair desire to promote the true interest %,ill the church. In drawing ugu teir resolatiorms, and inalltheirpToceed- iug.i, he wished it to be-shown that they were lnot niggardly, and that although they resisted the exactions ofr improp-fiators, they wvere wyill- ing to make the most liberal allowances to the clerY. Ile wished them to prove that if they erred is was in favourt ofl eh church (hear, bear.) They should rememnber the peculiar situation in which the clergy were placd, andteitatpeculiarprovisions.io'aghtt o hem efbr them. If any genitlemantherehtd haLppened to fail in qn~ebusiness le might have recourse to another ; bet a clergyman was confined-torhe course of life In whicnh e was east. They couzld he,t change their profeasions., anti even when thoy were favourmbly placed in it, they had only a life interest in their livings. These were circusmstances wlkick were too fzequently forgotten whenL provisons for the lci~7 yeere contemplated. (Wear, hlear.) lie hoped that the resultwol parishioners. Air. Juwp said, they bad now to consider their mode of acting. lie thought the opportonity for applying to Parlianrent most fa- vourable, as the mnemers would, in a short trime, bave to renderaup their trust to their constituents, -and might,. under such circumn- stances, be more read' to forward such a-measure. But before ise wrent firetler, hie woa salt 2he respectable geimtlenan. *ho tipoke on. the opening of the proceeding, mors particularly his reasors for re- commending tbe parishes toproeedseparatyly P Mhr. SAUNDSISS said-te dircumstances of rDany of ele parishies were se very different. He instanced the case of the. pari of St. Andrew, Holb4rn, and that of St. Danstan's in the West, -where it. was found neessry -to proceed by by separate bills. So fir as.tne. removal of the oppressive enaotment went, he thought thatanuni ted application was proper; but when they came to make settlements for the miristers, he conceived it would be foind tecessary to lap. ceed separately- twould, be apprebended,befound tthat thepasis of Bisbopagate anl that ef Aders$atd were so-differently circumstainced.- thattit woald be imposasble to frame a bill hat would meet thejir. cumstances of both. -Mr. Jups wag still convlnced that one bill mitghtse framedar give, relief to all the parishes. AMight not that bill contain specific cnacunenta to meet the ases of A and B 4 (heor, her.} .Might not the bil dhectb= in the ;h t 3toh the allister shato receive suchl astim, ald thtat getater remuneration shall be given to the minister of the larger parish? Mrt D i w pere withoe thelast stpeaker, and askea wexe. t3ter It woul 4 ti ot alarn Parliament to receiVe aPplications for 22 dis-' tinct bills. . "carh ar.) Mr. IVuctrr*E in behalf of St. BOtolh,1, BishoPsgate, said that his onsctients -ere of opinion that nOthing oould succeed in a sepa. rate petition, and that they were willingt althofgh net particslarly Irected themselves, to join in the romoval of- the elormous grievarce. The parishioners would readily join in one general act, which td y wbeen d to see u,nder the directionof the ci otr, alf t vely sontacy ount of hc h t profevo ional skill, but on accoLnt of-the temPer md moderation whicd t he always disolayed. t Hear.) 81r. SsAv,_u, SPe'to warnmly in favour of an immediate hppliestion to Parlialent, an t gaid froti what he haa learned in course of' the "pplica,tion fh m the parishes of St . Dunst-o in the Wedt, and wt. ADdrew,ollowrn there was a very favithath e dispotion t as an qui le p a djh s tment. Hte had ,asd same co nveration with g a r. te aenedrthe tishoP Of thocen oste soubtjet aind found themi ex- trer we from eab voard si. U low'- . r Complain Of with respect to their cletgyman, wehon e.ntsc t was,ndeed,nio-tinadequate. Tbelayesmprapriator, wc o tle-erd 5 0I., left the minister o to subsist upon casual fees. )lIr. NonDre0 ppr"oeif general application to Parliament by ws4arte' etitions, and disclaimcd, on the part of his parish, any idea 6r- hopstility to t1he church. ltio. NEsEaLt for St. Giles, Cripulegate, contended, that the -whiale proceedings should be united. If it were not so, his parish wrould be deprive eat' a renedy, for they were under the control ot a re.ct vestry, which wras favourable to the existing state of things., Irf the other parishes deserted them, they would have the 2s. 9d. en- forced oni them without rer imr. n1g ELL, at gest 7ength, diescribed the hardships under vhi,ch the inhabitants of St. Olave, Hart-street, lab~oured. All who Apposed were there threatened with the infliction of the full 2s. 9TL. The parishes ouglt na to go hand anAd hand tostate thmeir grievances; but with rpference to the expense of obtaining separate bills, one year's- inclomne from each would suffice. r. SAUNDelif proposed that it shoald be referred to their cov-a saituentx to decide wheuher they shioild proc-eed separately or collec- tively, and then the practicability of their joining in au general bill would be a-scertained. Aft. IcvaXO copld not help wandering at suesh aproposition, made as it was to promite Ananieity; it was the very course best calcu. lated to create disunion. He was tedirous that the meeting should CoMe to some determinatior on was head themsergves. ir . p o tF o their e ttpres ;and hi e doubt of the practicability of all 3 o theoliaing ilrgmn. Hi g4sttenteral great'y* A fte r sat m e urtheu a cu s o n, ig t rn w hich r. J u tp , .i r. T Oh P La s, Zt l r. Depu t y D As , r e c i l n o R E E T A W A , m on d a n u m b e r o f o t h e r g en8 tiemen spoke, 'ne meetinggadopted resolutio toteite following Rtewtoeed una;1mously-..That it appeaTS toO hbis9 meeting that an ,=,c ;spplc.ation should be nmade by thie several parishes to Parlia- tfln~,fo reie, ati ha ths pinonbe reported to the several pa- ~ Reelvd...Tha a opy f te aove resolution be transmitted ~o j averl arihes an tat heyberequested to take the most eg.~talandImmdiae masues n teirpower to forward the oh. Before the meetitng separated, the CHAUtYSr%AV again remninded Dfia.resent that the Corporation 'a Illin to give the mut atreunussupprt s thir efbrt andhe ugedthe necessity of Ii- besaityto he ffiiatng leryme. Hs cnsttuents were greatly grieed ~t rimssig acurte,a gntlmanof education, with a nu- snerus amiy, eceve n mae tai,tiO or801. a-year. TZITRBS IAN LQAVDO1t. 3MEErING OF THE PARlsnl{- AFFECTED BY TRE TITHS tXDnE! rnr 37Tr1 stpRy VIii. -