House Of Lords, Friday, J...
The Times, 1824-06-19T00:00:00

PARLIAMENTTARY INTELLIGENCE. -i'niemarqluis ot II UkN'JtTl,Y presented a pctitior. from the Roval blurghs of Scotland, in favour, as we understoed, of the amelioration tf the Wcest India slave nopulation. The LORD CHANgELLOR left the woolsack to move a rider on the bankrupt laws' amnedment bill, whicli had been read a third time yesterday. [Wre stated yeste--rday by mistake that it had pass- ed. but *.he qcestion of passing wasv. po t6ne. J The provisions of this bill *vere extremely imnrortant. It proposed to make alterations'; in a long-established systemn of Jlw, anw there was ale:ays great danger in making such alterations hastily. because amendments, in themselves uset'ul, might, if ra:shly intreoduced, prove pernicious. A. measure of this kind had, however, been under the consi- deratioi of tle other housa of Parliament tor three successire sessions, and thc bill t6 which he now hatd the honour to prO-. pose the addition of a clause had beeti framned with all care. Sonic of thc judges, and other persons be.-tqualified to forni an opinion on the subject, hatd directed their attention to it. LJe therelrxrc hat! come to this conclusion-tbat the bill ought to pass,but that it shouli not pass as a tfill to tLake.imncrdiatc effect. It was proper to give tirnefor suggesting any lmrrrovemtnte whicih might be necessar-, befcre hbe biU cameC ilit'o Operation. lIrlicn their lordshitis had fiM time for considering the measure, he had no doubt but that such clauses woultd be introdlucedl as wou'ld render it highly usefuil. WVith this viewr, the clause he intLended to mote would be, that the bilt should not take effect until the Ist of ;lay, 132 *. To this limitation lie would propose only one txcep- tion. At present. if a sing12 creditor above 201. chiose to witlhhold Ibis assent, and wivould not become onle of the three-fifths necessary to entitle a hankrupt to his ccrtificale, it wa;s not in the power of tile 2ormis,io.ets, or the C'onr.vtor Chancery, to grant relief, and such a per.son waes precluded from doing any thing for himiself or family. If, howvever. the commissioners in suchl a case should report thalt they were satisfied with tibe conduct of tie bankrupt, it would be proper that the Chancellor should have power tit grant relief. His lordship mtoved a. clause to this effi:ct, whichl being added by way of rider to the bill, it passed. Mr. BO(iDEN . and otheri brought 'ip the superannuation bill, and a variety of other bills from thre ('ommons; Air. ESTc oulT rbrought a miessage fromii the Coomuvrfois, desiring a conference with their lordships on the amendments made ih ti-.e vagrant !aws bill. I'lie 4r )RD ClANCELLOR informcdl tIle messengers, that their lordships would appointnriadagers fbr a conference,to be holden forthw ith ih the Painted Chambef. Earl GREY had a petitioni to prcsent from the Ronlldt Catholics of thle couity and city of WVaterford, praying to be relieved frtmn t he grievanocs under which thtey laboured. The petitioners had leftt it to him to determine whether it would be proper to found any motion on this petition, or raise any discussion on tie subject of thleir claims, 'ie certainly should have been very happy to htave proposed to their lordsbips a removal of the disabilities of wwhich the petitioners complained; had there been arY prospect of advantage in now bringing that qitestion forwa.rd, but, untder p-resent circum- stances, and at this advanced period of the session, secin- no likeli- hood of any utility whatev'er in agitating the subject, he should for- bear from more particularly pressing it on their lo.-dshrios' attention. The Archbishop of CANTDRBURY laid on the table the fifth report of the cotmissioners for building churc'es, lle stated, as f'ar as we could collect w/hat lie said, that 11 churches hatd been built since thelast report, thatl0c1hurches were building,which would make the wholc nun3ber built 98. The recently built churches would aff'ord accommodation for 15,000 persons. LIord ELLENBOROUGH wished to know what use there was for the 500,0001. granted for additional churchtes; if so mpny were alreadly built? Thi Archbisihop of CLNTERBUTRY (we believe) replied, that the grant was not suggested by tbre report, nor by btim. Petitions, in favour of the equitable loan bill, were presented by Lord D,t LEN, from the watch-mtakers of London; and bv Lord Gitas TENOR, from the turners. On the motion of the 3Sarl of'LWERICK, the Holylcadroad vil;as ordered to be priitetl. EARL MARSHAL. LordI HOL;LAND rose to cail their lortdshiips' attention to a bill which bli was about to introduce, auid-Mwhich had for its object to enable the Earl Wlarshal or his deputy to exevute that office witliout ti c necessity of taking certain oaths at present required by law. In offering such a bill at tnis period of the session ho owned -that he felt some apology to be necessary, and tbough that- a logw was to be found in the bill itself, he would briefly explain the reasons whiehi induced him to bring it forward at thic present moment. Their lord- ships were aware that when a no4ble relation of his lately intro- duced a bill for the reliefof the Roinan C.atholics of Eroglan'd, what he now proposed to do formed onoe of its enactments. The mea- sure proposed by his noble relation h.ad three distinetobjects: Ist, to render Roman Catholic.-; capable of executing the duties ofus ticesofihepeace; 2td, torender therm capableofserving as ohlcers of the revenue, and 341y, to place anoy Roman Catholic Earl Alar- shal in tuch asituation aswonfu enabl c himn to execute his oifficc. To making Roman Catlio!ics,justices of %he ':lcqce, several-noble lords objected-on principle; but noy objee: ion ctillie ground of principle was made to.theotIierobjecws,whichw creglien considered proPcr.'the repeal of the objectionable oathsg with regard to revenue-officers WAS confessed to be not only just, butt desirable ; and it was observed, thatnotbing could be mnore easy thaiu to introducee a bill for accsn- plisbing that object. In fact,a bill for thatpurposa wasinubiduced by the noble earl opposite, and it hiad already passed.> As to the otherobject, the relief of the EarliMarshal, no objection wasnrade to includl ng it in the samne bill, except as to flormn. [i was said that it would be introducing a nitter which was inconigruous with tie measure before the- house, and that when the object was effected it should be by a separate bill. Their lordships havingr bv- a particuilar bill passed the second object of his noble friend's inotion, did not then 'find themselves in- suchi a situa- tion of urgency as required the immediate execution of the third ; biit thecre wvere now strong motives of conveniency, and stroniger still ofjustice, for carrying thattobjectalso intoeffect. LHere- the noble lord was interrupted by the proceeding., on the- conference with theComitions, which were followed by a division. Wiwn strangers were- re-adlmitted, his iordshilp had resitmed his spe, ch.1 Hfe -re- minded their lord'ships that the object of the bill lie recommended wasthe samnewithi that the juistice of the principle of which had been ack-nowledged, and the enactment of whtich confessed to bede- asrable. It was - founded oo the same principle as that which thev liedI alreadly passed. -lie-meant th.at bill initroduced bY thle noble earl opposite, for eniabling persons bolfding offices in the revenue to execute the duties--of those offices with- ouit takging certain oatths. It involved nio principle whiceh would lead their lordlhips one step farther than they had alredy advainced. He hail in favour of his proposition) the declarations andl profes- sions of many noblelordls, even of those most jealous on subjects-of this kind. Thev had allowned that they conceived no danger could arise from carrying this object into effect. Indeed, how could it be supposed that there was; more daniger to the church from the stick of the Earl Marshal than from the cannon and sword of the armY and na~vy ? er that the superintendence of arnorial bearings was to be viewved with more jealousy, as to the faith of the officer, thin collecting of iioney for the revenue ? It being,then,acknowledged that there was no danger in carrying this object into effect, he had reasons which induzed him to propose the mecasure att the present moment, and which he trusted would be founid of sufiT- 6cint weighit witlistheir loraships to i-euceethem tonadoptit. Their lordshisps WETe aware that the noble sZuke whio hield the office of Earl iMarsbal did not stand in the samnesituation as hre didl when this subject was formi-erly before thiem. The noble duke was aware of the general senitinents of their lordshiips on the sutbject of his office, and was sensible of t,he jutce that was done him. He bsaJ, however, by a stroke of Providenrce, just beeni deprived of that person whio, on account of the tiesi of blood and afibderin, he should have wislied to exercise the duties of his office. if their lordships were disposed toragree to the bill he proposed, this was precisely the time at whichi the boon it was intended to confer could be given witht the greatest effec-t Anind generositv. It was part of the duty of Earl Mlarshal to attend onitlse prorogaltion of Parliament ; and now. when that period was approaching., the country was placed in~ the situations of having no onie to dischlarge that of- fice. The noble duke, whlile labouring under affliction, must be called upon to appoinit a deputy. and in the urgency of the case, would have to transfer to some distant relation or connexion that dutit which he would be proud to discharge himself. Upon the wvhole, therefore, he tlought that this was a timie at which he need nlot be discouraged from presenting this bill.1 to their lordships for a first reading. He was aware that if they meant.it shouldI pass in this session, it 'would be necessary to take into consideration thte standinitg orders respecting the progress of hills. He was oise of hoe wvho most sincerely respetctd the orders by which their lordships' proceedinigs were regulated,. and woutld not takce upon himself to p-ropose their suspension, except in cases which were momentous, or in those with respect to which the opinion of the house had already been expressed. It was on tile-latter of these that he would foundl lhis proposition. There had been, as lie had alradysai, n obectonmade to the principle of this measture darngthelae dscssin.The noble baron on the cro-s-bench (Col- cheter, wom e id not see in his place, had admnittedl that no infuene o etolueit which could he danigerous wvas attachedl to the office of Eatrl 11arshal, and hie distinctly understood that both- that noble baron, ani the noble earl on the woolsack, were willing to agree to a separate bill on this subject. If th.ere wevre any serious andl well-fouinded objectionis to the suspension of the stalding orders, he would be the la-st person to desire to overrule them ; but, on thte other hand, if their lordships reallv wished to relieve the Earl Mlarshal from the p resent disabili- lities of thelaw, this was the time for doing it, and the mnanner in which it coul d be most graciously done. JHe abstainied froim all re- flections on the geiseral law respecting Roman Catholics ; all that he wiished for was to give thieir lords-hips the opportussitv of doing an act of grace which they hadl already sigirfiled their willngnes toperortn Thebillhe f tfirre tofthirlrhicn The LOD CHANELLORwould ot obect to the first readig of the bill, nor wouldI lie oppose i nayo its stages; but lie coul not dive his conisent to the s-uspenin ofth standinig orders. The hill was tend a fist timie. Lord H-OLLAND gave notice, that lie wouild to-miorrow move their lordships to take into consideration Nos. 24 and 26 of the staied- ing q;4ers. The Earl of LIVERPOOL woultd give his support to the bill whiich the noble lord lied introduced, hut he coauld not pledge hilm- sel tosuportth motjion for the suspension of the standing orders, as hatsusenson adreference to a subject in whichi there had bee geris iffeenes.1 of opinion. Tie stanidinigorders.could on-ly be suspended, whe t he re was a gr eat necessity for passing a niea. sure, or whlen It was certain there could be no difference of opi- nionresectig i; bu seeralnobe lods ho took a particular ini- teret i qustios o ths knd wre bset, nd could not he inform- ed f te po~reso th mesur iftheosiders wiere suspendedl. Lor IlOLlAN wa brppyto earthe noble earl promise to sUpprt he ill Ifthe iobe erl ailany scruples respecting thec suspension of tije staridingorderi, he woud niot press hiis motionl; butt their lordtiuip~ mnust he wiire,thsat in order to enable them to (discuss that cjuestioms to-morrowv, it was siccessary that a notice sheuldl now- bgie.CONFEREiNCE WITHI THE COMMONS8. [Tuie proceedings on this conference occurred at the interruption Marked in lar.d H-olland's speech, bitt in ordter to keep dlie suibjects distinct, ire have transferrc-d the rtepirt to this place-] 1 The Earl of IlArzltowRy, the Earl of ROSStx, the Bishiop 'f EXETER, Lord Toit ItNGT'ON, Lordl COIIRTOWN, the Mlarquis of HUNTLEY, arid 1,ord! Bxr.Ey, wvere appoinited to mTanage the con- ference with li teConinions, oni tire subject' of tile vagrant Law~s'ainendl- tincrt hill and on notice being gien thlat the Comimons wvere in waiting, went forthi to the Pit Chamber. on the retuirni of the inanagers, the Eairl of HAseROwRy re- p-orted the conference, bi- which it appeared that thie- Commons hadl agreed to soime of the amendments imade by their Lozdaluips, and dise:ented from o thers ; and tha-t the Comm-ons prayed their Lord- ships niot to insist uipon the amendments objected to, that so useful a bill miglit not be jest. Tiie E&rl of SIiAFTESBURY moved that their lordshiips do not insist oni the amendments. Lortd E'LLENBOROUCH opposed the inotion; Ile t'houghit the arisnadmrents so necessary, that their lordships ought to insist uiponi thiens, thcughi the result shouild be thteleaving the countrywiith- out a vagrant act. Hie would divide tie hoase on the question, though he should stand aloneC. Earl GROSVENOR concurred with tiienoblelord in the import- atnce of the aumendments, but rather than run the risk of losing; the bill,thought it would he better to invite the Commlons to another coni- ference, and try, to persuade themr to agree to) the amndmn(rents. Their lordships then dlivided on LordI Sliftesburv's miotion- Co'ntent, 251 iNot content., 13 I Majority 1-2. Tihe Earl of'`DAR2NLEY presentedl apetitioOl fromi certain house- holdlers of Dublin against the Duablin hoaste valuation bill. Their lordlships resolved into a committee On the niew chiurchecs bill. After somnediscuissioni,several verbtam amendments wvere agreedl to, and the report was ordered to be received on Molnday. CLERGY RESIDENCEl (IRELAND). The Ea-rl of SHAFTESBURY movedl the ordler of tire day forb the third reading, of the Irish clevey residence bill. The Earl of DARNLEY, it, jie hope that thiis bill would have the effect. of makinig tie clergy of Ireland at little muore attentive to tirduty, gave it his assent. Lord IdlNG wishied to know if this bill v,as a counterpart of die English clergy non-residlence hill? The Earl ofYLIVERPOOL replied across tihe table, that it was nearly so. Lord KlING said iie v.;is Persuaded it woulI lie altogether inef- ficient, so niay were the modes by which it could be evadied. Onec enceral reason for non-residenic -;ras the unlicalthiiess oif the sitiia- don to th ie rector, Whiflst in the same situattiolls thle vivacious curate lived and flourished. It was in vain tliattheact called for retur.ns to thec bishop.< or to Parliamient-the returnis increased upon themn, till at last they becamne ashalmed of callingt for theisi. Thie trtitl was, that there was no ob le ct in natuire so elastic as a non.rcsident clergy- inan. (A laugh.) The blishiop rlitlit, squeeze himi- with exxhorta- lions, or piound him- withi l1aria,meniarv returns--he rose unaflTcted by all the fbrcc that could be applied to him. He (Lord K(ing) tlhought, hiowever, dint lie hield in hiis hand air effectual remetdy for thiis grievance, wvhichi lie proposed to introdutce as a dante in the bill. 'u little apparatus enacted, that in. the case of thie absence of any ecclesi-mstical1 person fromn his benefice for a longer spiace of tiine than six weeks, eyery week afterwards that lie shiould he so absent shotild he taken and lieldI to be a legal dcis charge for one- fifty-second part of his annual tithes. Th!e question was put on. thisamiendment, and negatived witdiout a division. Lord GORT proposed a clause1 to enable the bishop to appoint a clergymuran, where, from the great exteirt of somc uniited parishies, it was Impossible the , tuty couild be perfor-medi. Time clause was agreed to, and the bill read a third timne and passed.MARINE iNSURANCE. Lord BEXLEY moved the order of the day for the coalimittec on the macins insuratice bill. The LORD CHANCELI-OR said, their lordislips were aware, that in the c;ase of companies chanrtered by the Crown, should these charter-s at any tine become hurtful, theymightbe abolished, under a proceeding by suirefic4as; htit if joint stock companies shoult be- come injurious to the public, there was no way of abolishilig thenm, as they were not li-ble to that process. Now, to make these bills, es- tablishing joint stock companies, as little injuiious, or rather of as much benefit to she public as possible, it was in his opinion proper that there should be clauses in them iwhich lie intended to propose on Monday next. To let the hlouse into thc nature of the clauses he intented to propose, he would suppose the case of a tI)- merous partnership: it would be impossible fora party suing them to put thewwholeof their imanes into liis decl&ratioms. Their lord- shins would,hiYutTought, do a great mischief, unless with respect to thbee partnerships, sene clause was introduced, by which the world ahotuld knowv of whom they consisted. 'l'he means of attaining that object should be, that the nantes should be enrolled and registered in some of his Afvaj&sty's Courts, to 'which the public might at all times refer. And furtlier, if their lordships mca7t to give an effectual remedy, the parties shoild not be obliged to sue thei whole of the partnership, but. tieresi5ould be a power to sue any two oftheparrners thatinight be selected, and execumion to be taken as if all the partner!'wcere parties to the cause. Another clause necessary to be irnserted waas, that persons should remain liable till they had- given a notification to the world by a new memorial and enrohninet; and theclause should beso worrJed,that if tbenew ernembersofthe part- nership-were not resuonsible persons, then the old membersshould re- mainliableforallcenutractsmadeduring tdeirbeing oftlre partnersllip. Theremedv to Se, tbat all tranisfers should be nutt andvoid tlkio sne- morialled5undenrolled.li had appeared rigkt tohinito state to tbebouse theviews ae hadttaken; buttogivetime for theconsideration of what lie had thrown out. h e should not move the lauses till Ilondaty. If tllirlod:;ip sould agree to pass tbis billas it'stoGt at present, in jU!itiCe to .he companies,wlso ought to be apprised of bis intention, le gave noticei that if lhe w,ere alive at the next meeting of Parliament, one of the first measures w,vhich lie would introduce would be a gene- ral acl for t.CCti'lg all the views whLich he had of the subject. ' TheFadl of LIVERPOOL entirelV asfeed w;th htI noble anj_ learned friead,,but thought the claue which he intended to propo ' would mori ,so perly come-under thdr lo dship,s'iiusdo, .'as ai general measure, and he could see-no powible,,reaam, in thecase of" all co;mpanies created, by acts bf Pirhament, why they should not. be voided by thesame process which was applicable to ch rters. A provision ot'liat kinds he thought, would be jui tad roer. . - ; ,Lord REDESDALE wished ihe noble and leaTned]ord hadprO%... posed his clausesnow, ashe apprehended tbere would beles dicfiulty in the way of their.becoming part of the law of.the land by belng at" tached to this bill, ihan if they formed a separatc meiure. ' - The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he. certainly shoiild propds- theclauses.. ie did notmove them now, becauacitrnightbe asur.- prise on the committee. The bill then went through thecommittee, andww raesported. .A person from the'office of the Commissioners of Woods antl Forests presented the reporc of the-commissioners for &te impTove_ ment of the road front London to flolyhead. The otber bills on the table were: acrerally forwardled a their respective stages-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LJORDS, FnIDAY. JUTX2E ?i.