House Of Commons, Tuesday...
The Times, 1824-02-25T00:00:00

iSlr. - UkATTAN brought in the Dablin- gas bill, which was read a first time. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS. Ir. MARTIN presented i petidon from several magistrates and 700 inhabitantsj many of whom were of the Socicty oF Fricnds5 of the town of Zanchester, praying for the ibelition of bear-baiting, dog and monkey-flghtin.j.,t and other crul sports, which were a di-s- grace to humanity. Thc hion. member remarked, that bull-baitig was already a suiedemeanour, and thai he felt a pride at being se- lected -tv present this petidion._I..Laid on the iable, and ordered to be printed. - ASSESSED TAXES. Colonel PALMER presented a petition from the inhabitants of the parish of St. Michael, Bath, praying f6r a repeal of some of tho assessed taxes, and particularly of the male-servant tax, the hoi7se duty, and the window tax. They complained of theinjurious effect to health, which arose from the stoppage of windows, atd conse- quent ventilation, to diminish the payment of an oppressive tax, and expressed an earnest hope, tihat in obedience to the'gracious pledge in his Majesty's sneech, .^ relief from the assessed taxes would be afforded to the country. (Elear.) Hd lamented the inadequate reliefheLd out b.- the Chancellor of the Exlihe'que'rin his financialastatemuent of last night._The pet Zion was ordered'to be printed. MIr. MABERLY expressed his regret a' tse absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer from his seat opposite. He entirely speed ia the reduction of duties which - the right hon. gentle- man had already carried into effect; but what he complained of wal, that there was not that extent of' relief 'affo'rded to the t country-at larKe, which the situation of things caUed for. (Hear,lhear.), Hefelt it therefore his duty tp give nodce, that on an early day he should move for a repeal of the whole of the as. sessed taxes. ('Hear, hear.) To preient an idle alarm about the se- curity of public faith, he wished at the .instant to statei that if a. sinking fund of X,t0O+0OlI. wete nedessgry vhy inot, instead df leav- iDng thpreseint*uightsf tfxation tosupp?i.ti'coniide ofaiome Dis- -oal--ot tse-lsnd.tax~afi nd exoressly provided by Mr. 'Pitt for the maintenance of public credit ? if tb'at were'done; ii 'would take oat 40,00,000L. of the tbree'per cents. He was as anxious as aniy man to support public credit, but-he oul-d not consent to tax the public in this manner. for'it, while the land-tax remained unsold. SLAVE TRADE. Sir GEORGE NUGENT. presented a petition from tbe inba. bitants of ]Buckingham, against the West India slave trade. Lord EASTNOR presented a petition to the-same effect, from the inhabitants of Hereford,-Laid on the table. COAL DITTY. Captain BASTARD presented a petition against the coal duties, from someparishesin tae countyof Devon; and Mr.DoWDEswELL presented a similar one from Heliston. Mlr. CURWEN presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the county of Cumberlaud, against the duty on shepherds' dogs. LEATHER-TA. Captain MlABERLY -resented a petition from the butchers of Northampton, against the tax on leather. Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from the tanners of the county of Wexford againstthellcather duties. - TOBACCO DUTIES. AMr. HART DAVISpresented a petition from the manufactur- ers of tobacco and snuff in the city of Bristol, complaining of the high duties which affected their trade, and let in the smuggled article, to the great iniury of the fair dealer and the public revenue, and thez great deterioration of public morals. They complained that this injury was the.consequence of those high duties, which *heldout such a bountytosmuggling; andexpressed theirfuUconviction tlat ifa reductionof dtyU ttok place, the revenuewould profit by the increased consumption. As a case in point, the hon. member urged, that while the duty in Irelaned was only 5d. per lb., the consumption armounted in theyear to 11,-0,OOOlb. in that country, and wlhen the duty was augmented there to 2s. per lb., it was only paid upon 2,500,00Olb., and it was obvious that the rest of the consumption, which evidently continued as before, was supplied by smugglers. (Hear, hear.) Dkil. BBRIGHT was surprised, when the Chancellor of the Ex- -chequer was last night engaged in drawing so eloquent and fervid a picture of the mnoral evils of smuggling in the silk trade,that it never occurred to him to think how the tobacco trade was simi- larly-affected. He still hoped that the right hon. gent. would not overlook a subjlMrso deeoly interesting to the public revenue, as well as to the morals of tde middling classes of societv. The duty on tobacco amounted to 1,000 per cent. upon the otiginal value of the article. -It uas no wonder, thin, that with auch an induce- mient, an immense smuggling traffic should have existed against the honest trader-indeed,- tobacco was smuggled in under'every sort-of artifice-sometimee as potatoes, at other times undercover of the namne of stones; and often as turnips. Surelv, it was h gh time that same protection should be afforded to a trade so circum- stanctd. This petition, it should be recollected, came from large capitahists, and when they prayed for a reduction of duties, they ne- cessarily let. into -their market- the smaller capitalists, so that it Was quit clear they wrould not make the present complaint, unless the grirevance against whiclh it was directed was severely felt. Wlhat greater ret3ection could there be -upon the laws of any country, thau thathonestmeno werelucapable, by heimpolicy of theenactments of thelegislature, of entering into competition with rogues. fie really hoped that the Government would take this subject into their serious cons deration. The petition was ordered to be printed. - COUNTY RATES. Oin the motion of Mir. CHETWYNDE, certain accounts were ordered, showing the amount and application of the county-rates in England and Wales (as we underNtood) duiring the last year. - BEER DUTIES. Mr. WODEHOUSE gave notice that on IN ednesday the 1OLh of MNarch, he would movefor the equalization of the duties on beer. Mr. MABERILY said, that as the subject was taken up by the hen. member, he should leave it in his hands, and withdraw the no- tice le had already given with- reference to i. OFFICES OIN THE DEMI1SE OF THE CROWN. Sir R. HERON gave notice, that on Tuesday, the 2d of March, he should move for leave to being in a bill to prevent the necessary renewral of ofics on the demise of the Crown, LElACY DUTIEs. On the motion of Mr. IHUME, accounts were ordered of the stamps on probates and administrations, specifying the amount edch year, since the act of the 55th of the late King. On the motion of Sir J. NEWPORT, simnilar accounts were order ed from Ireland, during the last five years. CO3BINATION LAWS. Lord M ILTON presented a petition from the journeymen me- chanics of Sheffield. for a repeal of the combination laws. BOROUGH OF ATHLONE. Lord M5ILTON presented a petition from the inhabitants of the ancient borough of Athlone, in Ireland, complkining of -the utter want of reform in their body corporate. They knew that theyhad some person who was styled their representative in. Parliament, but of-him -they knew nothing except now and ihen hearing, through the London and Dublin -Gazettes, the nomination of sorpe individual to fill that offlce. (Hear, hear.) By- the system which had -been pur- iued1a prreat numnber of -the inhabitantshad becomedisfranchised,and 'knew not wheretoseek redress; their:corporate and commercial rights werethus compromised and nelectad,anltheirprivileges broughtinto market lile cows and horse or sale. As they knew iothing except noby lelof d ceir representative, they intrusted:their petition to the i AR honourable Member observed, that about five years ago, a. noble frievd of his, now dead, had introduced a bill into Parliament, providig that: schedules ef the property of persons entiled to vote should be lodged in the office of the clerk of- the :peace in the dif- ferent counties of Ireland;- but it appeared, that, iu several coun- ties, no such schedules had been lodged. He begged to -direct the attention of the righthonourahle gentleman (hr. Goulburn) to this poinL-Petition laid on the-table, and to beprinted. - 11r.-GOULBOURN gave notice, as we understood that he would, on tbhe 4th of iMarch movefor leaveto bring in a bill to amend the Sir J. NEWPORT hoped the discussion would not be deferred Mr. if 6? -RE;NET vwithdrew his motion relative, we believe, totheemploymentofprisoners on hard labour before trial. which 6tood for-to-mottow. His reason for doing so was, because he should feel it necessary, ori the seconid reading of the gaol act amendment bill, to briwthe-whole-subjewt under the consideration ofethe house. Mr.H- '.BENNET gave notice, that he would to.rporrow move for- tkeere-appointnent of the prison discipline co'mmittee. Mr. HUM E gave notice, that he would to-morrow mrnove for a -return o- the gross -consumption of exciseable articles for. the last five veats. The transfer of aids bill, the 15,000.000l. Exchequer bills bill, and the reciprocity of duties bill, were severally read the third time, and passed. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. Mr. BRIGHT wished to caU the attention of the learned gentle- man (the Attorney.General) to the subject of t3ie insolvent debtors' act. He hoped the learned geutleans would, in the course of the freent scssion, bring in a bill similar to that which he contemplated TKe ATTORNXY\E EN-ER.EAL answered, that he mneant to bring forward a measure on tbis subject in, the course of a few days. L L TAX ON WOOL. Lord lN'tLTON rose to present a petition, signed by a very nu- nerous body of the ,ioollen manufacturers of Saddlewortis, in Yorksbire, in favour of an abandonment of the tax on foreign wool. One of the resolutions - expressed, a hope, that while his Majesty's Mlinisters were adopting a - sound and liberal policy with respect to the gelneral commerce of the country, the interests of thc woollen manufacturer would -not be forgotten. He read this, to -show, that when tHe Government of the country did take enlighten. ed views on matters of this kitid, they were not misundeoatood by the pLeople. Before he sresested the petition, he:could-not help tak- ing tbe iberty- of stating thegreat satdsfaction.wh1rich he last night received froeh th-ttprt of the Chancellor of tbe Exchequer's speech Wbich . elated to comtnercial -rgulatibns . But be confessed that an- other pattof th4t spot.chi Was ?caulited to produce sonse disstitisfae- tion In the country; for in hib dpitilon,- the amount ef'taxation in- tended to be remitted was tOo small; and-tbearticles onswlhich it wat prophsedtolessenhcweightof txeswerenotwell selectedtHethought that an-undue preferenca bad been given to that portion of the comi- iXiutsty, wbo~, ast thi wealth-wasbhe most concentrated, were much > b 3 adbetter able to ~athepr,1are -of-the timeAluta. those Who Were stil xpsie t i.-This lid knew_toni-fths-ewho had better oppr-uee r nurn oo tesbetta lebt.3 ai-o taxes3 that more geretally operatedon the ountrya far m exten-. %We advantage would have been produced than could be .ixpeaced |5?r. S. RTo E v iahedtio san few words on the- -bject.oF tbsptitlor coupled askwaalast iight by his right honqurible ~pdastionent-~t4h b 6, te- free ,exportz -of WPOl e ~ (....; G.' 41, a~~I fl~ ade tsiaI eri lvsto b&eilaeh a*iiyfromiiit,he.W- i'nutartsrier,' hi,'jn:'thet natot ,of the,ii anufZctturr,fd nmrife4tu usiqus. 0.(.1{ear heawr.)' ',Theyaskedro' ii noT& n' mt1ieecoiuitt3y ind ihewouse;bf~ Cotomns 'Pp1$an;,an in4tuisiy; lle i'Wp'Pbtfrbtpersiuaed tl ihaeamorec decii bltow'tw'a nevef 'utn~d at tluhe-'wet7nnif ax m iua~~ritbsi inasure whTh was n ow ofo.dKyTheht hon gentkirf,n.-.. The ct ionisvswi lxid-on tlei'lel'' .' hlr. EjjlT(E; seeing the C'4ha 16qf the E belqueri inhbi ,place, wished, in presenting a pe'dito. todvert to someoZf thea statements nise by tie hist 'onS gentlemanatist niglit. lt wass petitaon fromahlmost 'all .the oflBer 'ZIUMk -inerehants irr the city of London-,, prei g,ing,th8t'ho1se-',ina,tilly'to-.?ointider their simatibnI and that of ,tne ttilde; before they cartled .into efhect the 'proepoSior ,advrp,nccd'by,tbe right hon. pentlesnasi in a1iteinenotof las,night, *Thepedtittnets '&nlplained, th',at, t 'wiath 'tespeeitwto thesaIt trade bad been resoTved ons byP lisa "Maetis over,nmenre withoat 1 the least cornmuniiction with anWof those: person. wthG wJere con.I cerned in that great manufactutre. MaInyol them 'he luriew. had! a very large stock of silk on haird, aiiit-ereEertauly'entxrled, if tbtS 1 measure were carrie.dto 'a rerntssioi'f tleexsstni,gtax. Theduty on raw-siLk M as one-third ofth e lste1and rnr of those individuals liad tg the amount of `O er OO@,OOl. in tbe.rai inatertia or the manifuctutred'arfitle. SinYely atlieist could not thinkof inflicting on them such a . loss,, ammedsaeE adopttingFthcrrght 'hon. gent.'s plan. He tboughit bt voutfb 'uc bette, for the in.. terest of all parties, that'the .dtyahould.b're'peledg_ad afll TnF right hon, gent. would' alto find,'ihatfhe repel of buties, wipe he proposed at the saein time, *oigild,ve bin ma letrouble, if introduced gradually. The,ieal of the dfty-tae onecase, would b e met by the gtadttal ef the bbu!4y t the othgr Nr. WALLACE.-Is the petthoniroiMiSe ioiribtsirtng- silk ? 'ir.ELLICE.-I believe itncomes ftomidhe gr'estmpos 'an throwsters.in town. Some'sW nouimpbr .hietson saaid; on the table. - - i COURT OF'OlfANCIY- Mr. J. WVILLTAMS.-In risidg to brjni ford-th motiO t which he was about, on tbis sie0, h wasio -tdi cad b,vtteiitiEttof- Parliament, Ie miust observe, that if lhe tboijth xl co'WEl b't'ed of-him that he shoUld produce t)fr' pn,fiufhe siessatitior- of which it became'litdn,p toronounree a codent oeinllrt,the cilc ,assre the o, 'vith a 1e4t,; th h6 .olsld'haveitit- dravrn frone nr t udertas ing Ube>ur-- hiSeto s'b jet was con3sidetec, and th e - oho ti c'trihk 4lijch the evils 6fthbe'system had been ' s esdtosirciiisltee should:look' upon that maa as rather bold titan'ivis-l 'hv?ioc4d,-atte-nptto pro. duce a specific spplicable to. so- c il, Csse The motion *hich- he wait about to IPy. before tbh house, id .the obeerEatis he should feel it is (luty to uiiutEit i ugport of that iiid tion, rested on R prindple 'diiectly the- tevfse. His 'eon plaint was,' that too much had al,tady been' done" ott the sub-' ject of the Court of Chanceer, -with-ioo 'ittle' investigitietr and Inquiry to warrant it. Ithbad Ieen a matter ofa tu prise ito him, and a'cause of regret to thbe eountrya that s6 far bUc'as deleei-yeais' ago, a measure of legislation'hadapassed-that hous on -the subject which he was about to intrsduce, iwthoat atydistinetJnUniry hating been instituted; and, he need not femind g-entlenien, tat now, in anotherhouse, a measure was to be found, not in contem,plitiooi, bat in the actual course ofadoptionh-..hich mrucsilr ek'osed to tbh pea- ple, in all its nakedness, tbe 'harsh and ptli1thipt(xoun 'propositton, that members of one house, bbtause they were '3suCh membors,- were competent tojudge df abstraa points of law (gearhea)_ And it was a puesti6n, whether that measure did UOt net'crl iffect 'tlie constitution of the hikhest conrt ofthls cauntry'(Hear Ifi sdidetheir he said that the House of Coinndns ought' to exercise amuiset vW- lantsuperintendanceoverthatmea4ure, instead. f remi'ir'liugtran. quil and idle spectators of its elfects. S'iih- was not fornierlylthe conduct of that house. Gentlemen must be a'ware thfat in tfe reiga of James L, when there was not sucha Court.of Uhariceryus existed nov-far, very far from it-when-no measure was introduced into the other house 'which deserved deep conlsideration,.aat that' timse,'ac. cidentally almost, and,asit app6arbd, from the suggestion of SitEd.' ward Coke 'an inquiry into the administration of justice was 'set on foot. At that period, some dozen of Cornishmen 'were brouglht up to plead to'a trifling felony; and on 'volantary information thei ziven of an informality, togetkgr With a iuggestioq of the M5aster of1 the Court of lVards, who wished, that an inquiry, relsating to the manner in which judicial datits were performed should be instituted,.-on' so s4iht a ground aS that appear| to be, on almost a matter of accident,' did the Houseof Com mons of that day form itself into a g anil coammittee of jus- tice, and they proceeded with a rigbrous and -Sigifaet inquiry into the state of the administration of justice throughoutthe'country, to the no small benefit of the people then, and longafterwards. Gen- tlemnen knew that the Chancellor of that day (and he spoke it -with grief. when be recollected the splendid end6wments of Lrd Bacon)- could not clear hirnself, from -the dharge of personal comrption-a charge of which, in these tines, fio human being even dreamried When the charge was pending against Lord Bacon as It appeared on their journals, Sir Edwrard Sackvyle reported' to ile house, that 1 "the Chancellor offered willingly to consent that any man might I speak freely concerning his Co6rt.'t They did so accerdipgly, and an inquiry took place, from which few'of the legal dignitaries of that time escaped without censure aidtdiscomfiture. On 'such' a slen' der ground was it, that the House of Commonasdeeined it necessary toform itself into a grand committedof justice. Ittatmituch earlie'r period,the House of Commons did 'not feel it unworthy 'of their at- tention to investigate thecauic of the delays which arose inAa 'admi. nistration of the justice of tlis coutitry. In the rei'f 6f Ediard T{I., a statute was passed (14 Edwazd! iTS. cap." '1 'ivhiti'6it' t'hr;, -" that'because. dsverae-snsscheefiahnih.a apetncsor that .in"'diverY, nlaces, as well in the Chancery,t as'ia the KAPg's Un6ch, Coinnton Pleas, and in the Exchequer,' before the justices. aisigned and otlier iustices, to hear and determsine deputed, the judgtnients lave been aelaved. sometimes' by diffialtv, and'sometimesa by divertse opinions oF the judges, and sometine:by other cause, itris assented, established, and accorded, that certain pers9ns haUlbe eaptxinted to hear, by petition delivered to them, theoonplaiAnrt of all tfose viho' will complain to them of such delays. They, sbill' have power to summon the justices to show~ ca.,se for sudh`Aelay;, and proceed to give relief to the parties' axgrieved." ' This was done at the remote period he bad mentioried, because it was felt to be of vast importance to the country that the hdminiitration of justice should be accurately watched over in all instances. 'He might be permitted to remark, that this house had not, in mo- dern times, suffered any measure connected with the jurisprudence of the country to pass without a vigilant and jealous interference. He referred more particularly to what occurred with respect to a re- cent enactment, hiaving for its pbject the fom3ation of a court in which were to be adjusted the atfairg of the m6st'worthless part of the community. He alludee-'(according to the scaleof fioralityin the citv)-to those who had the leas money. (A laugh.) After two distinct reports had been made by coiinmitte*:of that house, and not before, a court possessing a certain jurisdictio', 'cetainy' jur6diction of very trtvial comparative interist, wNs forrfe' for the purpose to which he haa :just adverted. Nearly it thalf,lne, a no- ble friend of his (Lord Althorp), not relying ol his o*n personal character.-not relying on his well-known talent foe busuiisA, did not thsink it proper to introduce a bill, on a matter' ceitainly of import. ance, bat which clearly demanded a disdtnct ieviiibn, without a most solemn and deliberate consideration of a comtmittee of that house, and a report from that committee. It would be for-othes fe decide on the necessity of the preposition he intenilea to being fot. ward: bat this he would &ay, that if this house did not etn-e6:4 in measures such as he had described, withut nailurely .weighin' and considering every part of the 'subject,.,they coula-not 'surely be ex.- pected to.adopt a different course on a matter imfinitelymore grave and important. He' was not, hon ever, driven to artalogies ir argu. ing this question; because itappesaed thaf li.sUirijg intothis 'tub. ject wvas the prderof theday. Hehad,thenis,b'efehihindi*tnct precedents on the point. 1t ap'rcd"tosome persona or'other ('no matter whom), that, 'from'tbe numnber of appeals'*hich o6wed in' frorm a distant part of the'kingdom (h6:erehat Scotlanfd) jd8ee ei'utire besoometbing defective in the formation o, the cou'rt,'o'rih the man. nerin which the laws were adarnister6' In Consequbtic bof this, a northern expedition was fitted ous "unded' the authority of an' act of Parliament, and' compiosed' 'o; 'several grive 'ana 'learn. ed men. This cormission wai' to innuire- whetherb' al' wa sound in the jurispruidesice of 'our~ nortl'em nelghWlggra ;: abd by the 4th of ffeorge 'IV',' czap. 85,' they^ reCeiveeF the fuleat; the most. unaparpig powvers t'e per&nii that duty. ' ' By ebAt statnte' Stfel powferits gwven to persona5 to be nFt"ed, ' to'tIlilc 5inqtirie iunto tbe fonins ofjucesa'in the Court of '"Rion, and' the 'Co~ttt'f Ap- peals; and they are directed to repbxt:lvhtheri themfreretx foiwM of~ believe to,e tr-ue,e.the facts which did-reach liim sboulsL~ lsavt utc. ter-ce~ ~s~hd~io~ ~(heer-).Thbe?e wsst6toher&iffiL culey *hiclabeset the. case, -as he.( Mr. W1iilliams):was tonterupon it,and-that-wd3theiqarineritirwhichs,o aafoirmero.ccasson,(audhbaT,re- in- whith' his arguments biad bec iriet, by the other ,side. ilEier.sv t&r-u reedingcaise whiebdh-ie-hidadduxced hafibeen treated-as a Sort of-won. ~Ier IL-w thou%h4 for-the;'fiftt tim e in - -the-hearing zof-ma'. 'he-had be'en,sterln 4s.e,fact,,Iat-Iteref'ere lays-in .Chancery- (hear)-L. as though-he ba1been broaching sojme new=suabject,- totrprbdtocig Rdm"ttartling -liardox, -to -the truthi of: i'hich -ui:m-we)lcoQstifute tmind c6uld wissiblygiveits aseatilt sithout'the adducefinene or-most Mutitudinojis-m well as undediable-~svjdence.` (Hear.)~ Tut.-wat th-e fact so; birv sit dvtto act- as though- it -were. so?-.'; Wale every member of that hoiuse bound to- dismiiss bi.k- private hijformation, a~ welt,4hles enerali notoriety of thegijevan.ce under debate.?: Was it, Juist,orrimlit that he should be met in arqiument, as thouigh the evil het-was depreamtiuiehad niever -been heard, O, when comnplaints.of it>m-netusin theftourts,inrour.:housaes,jn-;our s-reets, andwheathere was bot~ Yrhaps,-a corner of tekli drnexpthHosofC - raors,- n w iths1 grievousness. was not felt, and'admaitted, and la., Wseoted ? (Cheers.y A third:- difficulty still: he hadl to Mtruggle wvith, and he fiad so heseititionin repeating it, althoughi it had been treat. ed,6n hit former motion, if noWiantinvention, as, an exaggeration, gb*i thifitti tAlight.. Andbie declarmd upon h is honour as ayentleman, standing, -whereb~edid., In his place in- Parliament, that this difficulty to wichtf heetlhtded wasmusbctitrctlvandLabtolutelyerue. Practically, gs. to. faets;ho had experienced. every c'ifficu;ty-; and: he. would en-, deiivoue to-put the i,uliie- into the way - of- seeing so much. fiubae. ousent to--the notice-which he hadsgiven of bringinig - on the pl'esent que~tioiT, hearing of a paffticiflar caise whicli seemed impottant to hig argumentm.-not:as applied specificaly to the evil-ofdelay for'this particulart caise had been brought to a terminationtrathier wiftfiit a pe. siodof 2Dyeairs, (hear, antilsatkghter4...bt trich--in varietycof-pro. ceetlings and -expense;-and-fllustraXi-ve, hbesidei, of -thttt- conclusion hot In -Chancery uncemmonieo 'wti,-% that when victory, came, it- 11totighit-ruin along with it. (M1ucKlaughter. -Having,"heard of this- 6ite andd-its gre-jt ~quzli(ies,lae hadapplied. to. the -solichor concerned, He- had seen himi s--~.stated:- hii object ; -said tha-t be-riieatti to nie- his- informnatiob in the Houge: of C6rmmors, aridthathe-shoulxlfAfeel iisuself-ebtitledtotdetatl,.lf iotthe-partseu-. lsre-'yatthe result df their then !conivrsation,; andithe-; effec-of- the ecb&erCbea-h-sd b,~n,that-ehe solcttior-refuaert papers,,and pol:~itey-de- tlined hIbslin-andy-cbmmussicateion upob the aubjet.(Hear.,)!n ad. other-case a portion ofwhich.heshould.have (asit wrs) tostaste tothe h6use.- iihorutirne subsequent te. the Istacbtesion which he had-had tle7ehonour of wishing before the-house, he had net with a-solicitor..- suai -aof )eerspectibilfty-who said (as he wag informeddindeed in;aD qut-rtdrs) that he-haEl-been extremely-unfot,runatein eitinges~es,' 'bddthat he iight,-w,ithout- difficulty, havt obta-ined them greatly stronger and nmorestrik-ing; and, as a-proof, had proceeded togli;e. him the dgttWIlof aceae certainly mott sigaal- for the time of its duratioo, as well as for the-numbKer of attendances in it. - He bad not -bbe-n-tbl&, to read: the vwhole case, at the time to -which he referred; 'nor- eVen-ifl ehad hiad it, could hie expsectieow to remiem. betrtlbe-ircutmsiances but,since giving.notic-e of his present motion, he haid applie for the-details. Doubts in the mean timne haLd arisen, either with the -solicitor 'or the client;- and the very facts -whlch inL the -first -iustance.hadi been offered to him freely, the parties were no lornger inclined to supoly. I Hear, hear.) He would state another instaeice to the: aam:e Akiet, i'er, on Ihis side the question siieglq-facts were nOt sifficient. During the last. Christmas: bolvnivs, he had happened 0thbe~in a nelgbbnurbood-where therewasa %single woman whio had a titeal fortune- locked usp in Cha-ncery, and, pending- the VrnceedihgrM*a reduced to kreat distress. The case ,wa_-a Xcase pedttti generally ,kiown. -He had heard of it prior toithe tine- towhich. lie now referrd And hid called: upon a solicitor,, whom lie knew. Formertly to have b-een enMed in the suit. -The gentlecoan,applied tottollctdtheaseandr . aeof it;bu,at,s-lthouighit usverybuad'lI said he:, "itis nothirigatallcomrnared to anothier thatl have" (hear');I and tken proceeded to- detail (in'this new case) all the ungencies of] his ,elieat-thezreat-disAtres-iniwhich-he hatibeen plunged-and thel Anxiety with which- he himself (the solicitor) had in v-ain endeavour. ed to getjudgment; Now-,zt the time of-the conversation inqes- io,tha oiio badl his papers, aned was willing to- give thm,I haptien,t tat-h M.Wli ~hdbe professiooallyengged at the sme-~aty sice, or th papes, ad was todta ic ter interiew, e ha take timeto dliberte;-and on conieaion, must leclieto gve thm~ (Har, har.) her was arohrcase a, want of tie necessary informnation. I this-ls ae h solicitor admitted the krievance. lHe evenwanouwllg to give the particulars; but, though riot uniln,h wa afraid; He- said-." If I gi-ve these papers,-I shall become amark elhies, an- mybusiesswillWe tavesed nd ipedd."t (Mluchi cherig.)- e Mr.Wilims)di cal heattntonof te house to teserect; tnt s muh frm-adesre to vindieate his own- cha- racer n he ssetins hic h mae-houghi that he might he. allwedto ishshold tan wel wththe house and with -thel couiatry-~ws frmawish to convince:honourable members that in- forniaition upon the subject -really wast withheld, when he suggestedl that the inf5rmnationr which was dlenied before the house he could c6nimiand before a comtnittee. (Hear.-) Tie respectable body ofsoli. citorsputhu,ininliindof an observation which M1r. Burke hadapplicid to Aneother class of'individuals-..1 They ate like c-ats, who will not put 'out their electtic light until they have th~eir backs rubbed" (Hear, -andl lauglhtet. The degree of auttention, whatever that was ' which it:might b&neee_ss.ay to bes,tow upon these gentlemen, -befnire they-wouldgiTi-e ut tliei lights, would be best, las well as tuost~ (Hear, hear.) He should now com-e to those factsi, anid papers, such as he hadl been able to collect themn, to which he crusted more than to any statements for support in the measure he proposed ; but first, in answer to somne observations at a-former time, lie wvished to ask a single question. If, with his ignorance of the business of the Couirt of ' Chancery-..that ignorance - which justly was attri- buted -to hiine-he had been able -to brinig before the house those facts which were-contained inthe-papris upon tlietable-if he, With his ignoranice, indeed, couild make out any thinig like a ease before the house, and (that'whichi -now began to be material) a case before the couintry, hiow crying must the evil really be, and - how muchi miore glariirgworuld it have appearted, if the subjiecthad chanced to fall into the -hands of persons of real information and experience? (Much cheering.) Tuie first document to whichi he desired to refer weas, the return upon the table, containing an account of the nuimbet of appealA and re-hearings, from thie time of the appointment of the Vi ce-Chancellor in 1813 to the clore oP the last year. lie saw-. that the paper ernbraced.the years llhla rind 18123 ; whether it took hin the -whole of those twc years he was not able to state. Now what did this'return prove? Thiere was alist of- causes amounting to168 or 1639. Asgroall number, three or four' had been withdrawn, or srruck out by the'bonse'nt 6f the parties concerned. ~-The causes before the VlceChanl ar, aonig to4, were-to be deducted. This t -i. bet was nearly one half of.the whole.-that was to say, that 85 was ast neArly As mi&htbe, the numnber of efficient causes in ten years ; Bnd~ suipposing that to be the estimnate, the eappeals had been in the proportion of eight and a fractio-n in each year. He had stated On a former occasion to the house, that the business of the court was in "1admired disorder" (sagh-httwsdfiutlay to say of any busines4 whien it would come on-that this wqas the cause of great expense and waste of time-just, in fact, as any private individual, who had suffered his ac-counts to run into arrear, found It difficult, if 'not-impassible, to transact businets with regulat-iry. If hon. getfelenm en wouldl turn to thie third pa-ge of the return upon thbe table,- they woula find, -that after makting deductions for causees struck oui and withdrawn, there were twelve effective cauises left-upon theswhole. - Of these, there were three - that averaged -7 years old, from the datte ofp resenting the petition-to the time, of the odtder; three which averaged six years ; and three which averaed about twd months.- Now, on -what-principlc, -whea there were 104 AppJeals on the paper -of:tfie Chsncellor.:..on wvhat principle, except by-somnedisorder"in the general arrangements of the court, did be find a cauae of nine years standinig by the side of -a cause of two months-? And yet-such was -the case, according to the paper whbich he held in lisa hafid, Indleed, looking threughe the list, instead of any thing liker good orderor - regularity of arrangemnent, lie found nothing- but disorder fiom the begnniig to the end. if the;house wbuld takeshner adcount, it- would find, that in nineteen eases no ord4er a-ppearea to have been drawn uip by the suitors,eien after it had been~ pronobeuilby-thie court. This -was independeot 'of eases, eet.. tId- 'by -the pikrties- between - themselves, 'when they were driven to~comojromisel l2yTe desa~iar 6f coming to asey conclusion. . No. 39-;-.tbird page t tos& retumn-was the case 4sf "1 The Attorney. Otneral v. , roolte."~ The history of- thus; ease was - curiouis, axnd- it w*as- ybt- oitu! of-- the' 1last-of- the examples which wOuild hTb-.,iroducuV It rvas UAMr before the Lord Chancellor after aiineralo six years, and his Lordshipe decided it as to the meritst, buittook.time.to considera$ totlerquestion ofeosts; anddiering that time no oYder-could'beedraw~n upi- - For two entire- years constant ap- pliatinswe oat4tl ~ftr-term, for 'udgment; and. at- the etnd of that thime, the parties ciomromised, despairing of ul:tainin.g anyjdgnent~tlL (lice- her,)-- -Hbad thought it right, since, withut act~ ad aundnt facs, hecould- do niothing,: to brinet befite he-otiesaaecontf he usiess of the two last termes,orith tefehiei~naIcautt, apeal, ad tehearins, which were pre. c)seyibeub~ets owhlh-threlunsoth6etable wouldapply;,lbe wis hapy tsay tht sr~?de' oigialcauses, apoesas and re-hear-; wig, h-culdstae preesly hatwhch uadbien sAone. - First, tbee tod te as of" 'ehol ad Logan," which had been head,-butupn wichno u~snet hdbeeai pronounced. Next, 'hiere~a th3i f"Ntis.. Agutter," again hbeard and no Rudgeimeents--rsrtnounced. The- daume, '5 the Attorney.Generhl-v. ManaiflelL4",iid-hich, iupon hear7ng,-,anopinionbhad been initimated, b0tthequestion of eicits ,was retserved,-iAnd thereforeso thie present mnomnenitthere wasno orcler-dlraWn p, nor couald -the-case be dis. posed of. "C4'enx-vA,ard: Sorners,"..-hix wa-i a case of re.heir' Mg; It;wai heard, biit sb Wi{dkrnent-giv4n. "Powell v. Atloncheet,'-h was i dase of appeal, this was heard in pArt, -but nso judgineuit pro- nounce'd.- So that,-except withbrespeet-to thiecsseof" lthe W'ardenand FdhbivitChrst olege Machste,"which-dianotetAke'upbfa glfnaldccilnu hd eengi,Cn.(Het,and laughter.)-Bifthesideg atMebthebiis,thanumbr oftime ~exetly-inwhuch, theseI lapp~red i the-ausepper; or evrythmof whi.6h theI I3~.. ~'and-inn he-harig-, ownwrds,Ije jidthe- clerk -in ~urt to feebf-T e*asei thii(-e;ha -It would- be. at O it -hd1~~ti -Te--aseof WreuOlt and gn" ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ The Attoroey Genel and the' p Bai4 h ris6flYwaulana 4ppealOdgedj in Oetpheo Jagts i' 4d inie*.i-idd en ~ *epplsersab&t touhd -aal idd~j~es4 iiei,ciency, however-,wept only-a k%flthate Oetpr, (bh. ick) A.WPoell afic'ldioneh~t,thejair& a Idi~d 0ecsddeil; ha, b~ed~ d {asei.i Ans scyfanfor the cect of -ouet, Aniif'de 'tl(i nerd Itin zesWery Xpie-nse whieilerthey. ~~t baiaevangementg of that coarW-NVot itt jwlelid' -roi4,''tmttee'a eiil, --uea--o ici vk'sfet ~1~ti~x~i~ni~tht--as noxinecss-wryTqr # lpEr7i -he Q lf ~ fth ~oul ~enurc o~pZuf.eeIs,which c*r914d:Pti k tioLhec3n ae4dr ' I kl- Rtei. e sho4ildbegn drel t h as o(Thde -o~~othe;:house~~i- e ai73 a Peonf.tjiae,f h&*' a poi9e i n ndn tinm ant, 'Freeubt,4-wsallween fa avexarsl o va-~ and Dudley- hearia~ofthsit doubt,-iM tse.ye i1812-'ed 4ivet;itltn% for the- pur4ose: o :reViCA.jn 'bi decrez f,77i~ (11ear.7Jiear.> That petition 'wiis 1tit-t5pOn;1e i81l2. F~11 -11,n. thing whatevcr -wag cine-an it. -(Hedri,hear-4: Tir18lthernatter, after. six 'reas' intreava.camjeonsto -eheard; and,on)t~heEruigt.-. *accordniamt~urb of'forns?,l i*b .haiJ,Adiiibodonbbwas correct. -no judgment was given, on the gndAhu* fetitioz-vsinoeth&e !egular.inode o' rceig C.Hs74nicbe. r;89 nowever, a bill of review waa fileaL' Ic-he-.ento*'I8?31 te.question .wa- argued -in court and4 bet*ear that--tiue iar&ttlsezummeicc?o' 182, iudemenfwasc-nedor;,epeatedlyithourrefFetWThedefen;- atil's whole expettations deperndecd pon Abe rest*dJ.1,usper. consisted of 2~00 acreof- land4 _ anuanS cumaCdnEiibr1T0P o I -inmonev,.which hehadlreck-ened-~upora hornl brl.jm- fl time; (1,l23) be-was in adangerous state- of heslth.-t~eitificgies wrere sent by -physicians -stating -the urgcncr'of thv:cas- -The feeling was-so strong, that even-toaiutates of thecdurity'in,*h[ch be re~i&d_d(he, M#i. NTIlms, Ajc it Ay h- ti rcedn-w corret,l4ut it hatd been resorie&toi~had'mde remonstrances *hkch were shown totaon heis -adatat atr ax- n meose numberof attendanepa timd afttert ne,7pnap intent*to give 3udgmenta..h.e0ir. le,W a pli ecio he olcitor in town for the buimberd he tedne, ,-h-oiia'atre intbt asecoantryhe bad !Tbq-thiag was-s,oulSiy. o.ar stnd. laughter,) b-?w-.oiir a .rfed'ina-th precise- nutAbierofaedce -b h-(r'W i;4~l Stilte itlki cofidnehn~~l~~ianfry gentleman wh costncern din the-cue dh e ijse attend6d -not Ims than'sixtden specificap,pointments.-for ugsn. (Hear,,' bear.) In the nmen-timie,-such w'as-the atnxietyofdecen in the- courdry, thatt he hoad-rged-his soliitor over an& ove ~art undertake- opecial- journies to L-ondon (inicurring imtmense~pne in this way, which.would not, on taxatiort of costs,-be allwdb l' master) in order to hear the case-whgn thesenotices-of-jud.-la been given ; but the attorney - came: and. tenxited4 en lgr_. edi, and~ as he hadl come, returned agahu At lthth on-the 4th of June last, 182, a.notion -waa made Jnth~e House- Cotn.. mans, on the subject of -delays in'the' Court of:Cacev The.. dbabte- was adjournead andontemrng fhed, an- -intimatiort was-given -at the. stig~ h dia-t judgment in-the case of "-Dudley andu rea. h jdrtt w?Aagiven in one senterice-.given lwitbout.reiiion~ stated,ahdapenet agafinst, butieventually tbe partiet,.like wise men, agree oc~. promi-se theeir difference.. (Reoar-,- hear-.) This, thez?,!wax Iie xtent of the case of "'Dudley.and Freeman.` TheAfextcase with -wbidh he woukdi.touble the bouso-as- SLord oItloirnd .otha!rsv-.~,Wyatt andlQther&~ hs a iIfle y od oraad i.tuca against the tlfnants, siartdrthtaaod forestinrloture Act, and-the.questionAtRmed on, th& oatluctkmoRf a clauge in that inclosute act, as to the liability:of4loM'dof -xn tants to contribute towards the- expen5es. -The-bill-wxtg$l ed,rin:814j--.d the question -cAme before the (Qourt of Chanceiry;izi Janiuary,' -1817. Sir Samuel Rouilly and -another learned -gentleman-rwers:cunge for the defendants. The cae "as vf!ry fu?lly'asgutd-2onbbtla,j{is, and the court. after express ngAn-opiniwnia%fkyourof thie'p1aintiff's, at last concluded-'to..-take - the pa~persb aind consider":of.-judg.. met h causetrestedauntil 18l9,whven,Jrheobseclneuc.ofa-e. termination of- the -commissioners to make.,their -a*ardf.ecdinsel were instructed - o apply to the t6Lrd (Jhiincellor -fer judgment ; and theanswer tothis application. was,.that the-papericrthe cause were lost. This intimation, that the:.pa'pere- were lost,- Wasasulally the answer receiyed from thie regular.officer. Fresh papi!rsihen-w~ere furnished, anid fresh preparation -for fresh.- argumenti %, Sir> Sa.. muel.Romiljy being dead,and the-other-counisel in the enurse-having left, the court, it w~asfound necessary tp'apppip; 'freshi-leatnedyentle men; and thermatter was againcdiscussed.:- ittthi t,etbi4srinaretd until the year 1820, -when the solicito im the:ceawe eeTved initirjaa- tion that the -Lord Chancellor .would- take, thersaof -'Prliu~aent hom2n -viih - himi, and -give his- judgment - on - the, nlrd :bt neverdid the partii-li that-morrow see ". (Hear,,adfAbkte,..) Trhe parties could g)ot move ; the mnotion only xrspectedbe'constue- tioa of the enclosur-e act, andl all that was. requtirea -wa.ee,o of thiecommiss;ioners; yet in fear, oirz-;thqr in attdts-pair,kbfbver o!itaining the judgment of- the counsl, they caine-imng themsnslvce% to a compromise. This coultd- not.he -called: iiis40o4 and. -therefore they could not be wrong in terming it --the -failure, of justice., !The very gr,ound, the oaly ground upan-w~icib p.ries haji any reason to.- submait their cause, was neglected bythe tribunal,.all-the .exrpenai wvere wasted, the procceeding -wvere -absolutely. nill avid.-Woiva".1 Thienext case whi,chhe had oeioniiRn~!Lw4!ig,Mna concerns,hle would'not glyg -up-his name jo.the aimp't"Apt of this-discussion. Xf-any.gcntlinman should feel ciY ;6se4'tg1jue3. ti4r, the accuracy of hsis.otweement, -or.. j.Iw~-hrh'sd annyexagger4tion;. thenpflep;ed his fricsiLl tiae1d~fiii4i%-hii to o e mote dlirect cotummunicationi of his addrqsa, and ittsaifon 'fn -life to the arty so doubtijug- Thiegentlema tn-wbom hbe aDuded-marriec4 a lasv, wvhose -misfortune it Was, ~ad Ceertainly not her fault; - u ceed io a portion of - her fathler's propertyt which reqiurcd the inter- ference lat the t2ou.r. of Chartc6ry, -fie - iook- hia: wife,, as: hie, (Mr. Williams) supposed all other ken&imep did, (bat' uporn this:point his married friends werc. bettor iniformed than hintsel9., for better for worse. Certainly in the lady he took- the better portion - aOd in the" Court of Chancery tbe- worse -; ~ he might in -thi*. caseuse teeue. lative degree-f comiparissn.andsav, the worst. A.billwa idfr account, anannsawer was put in. and there was.a. decree Tepr. ceedingabegan to move at thisjunctire with mialos-r,it. The gentletosah was a person of very competent uhdusAdn,;fe had friends in the profe-ssion of the law.-.he had- a-nearru rn,h was a counsel, and he posstss- d no inadequatcknowtledg eoE be-5 ject hioiself..4ehad all the adyantagraswhtch his-friendsi' ad alli.. ance with professional, men could give - and-although it seemd si f would have no great time to abide in Ch'aicery.. yet, with h-pr spective before -himii of a report from- the MAAster's-office1-cton to thte report, exceptions to the exceptions, appeal to the Chncllr (probably, after an appeal from the Vico-Chaincellor, orth his ter of the Roolls), appeal fromn the Loard Ch.aicellor to the-aeo' Lords, 'record remitted back again 'for another.- exam-inatini h 3laster'soffike, dinttarepeated as to appealV and soon_-raahrth an risk the chance of -all thLis the gentleman, as well acquxainte with the, subject, and as intelligent a any gentlemari could -be and- wit h- the most friendly - aind powerful advice which, an. gentleman could command-from the mnere drewl of delays, did assent to a compromise; by which he-deliberately abzndoned otie lislf of his~ claimn. It -was- impossible, to name a 4case which mnane clearly ii, lua'trated the practical, mierits of the stubject upoin which he wsa speaking. He wvent on to the aext csee,-tn whichi his attention had- bcen directed shortly after the,motion whiieh he hetIhad theh6~nour tosubmitin the couTtesof ls esoI ,'Hblm tn knowledge of' it at. the time. One party in - the-case was a -srnmher-of:th pro., fession, - but -he was - rcluctent, on,l account. -of- obvious- reasons, to furnish informationi. - And Telsile -he.- -was: uport.--this part of the-subject, he Must-say, that until- the- lsou*e, -wotild. consent ta grant acommittee, theiir intentions would-be charged:wjdtlithe elesigu of stifling all-inquiry. - 'I'bat geatlecisan, hpweYer,. wet appliedi to for the fActs of his case by his.lesired sen'ogfre He(. .-Villiatus) celled onhim-af'ter the motinop o-lst-year. The' house would observe that he -was relrsctant to give-up any'.facts,7'being in the profission-of the latv hiraself., he persisted,in4f6idcrpig-to do, so.. He (Mir. WVithams) gave 1dm toiunderstiiuthtDhedsed' possessed the huilk of his. case,- perhapg 9-16thgs f- it, Antl j-t ,tha was not. competent in hima to depriivel bim (:3r. Wiliasui of the informiation which he bad alteady Acqui.red. With gret re.. luctance this gentleman gave up the renmainder of the fai-s, AndJ th hie-did, not with a view to increasling his M Milc ms)aterials, but for the- greater certainty in theitaetem-n-Whcilh he was iniformed wouild be niade-of'themn in after procedings. He must,, therefore. decline gvi,ng- up the natme of t'ijs gentlemais, except any gcatlema~j in the hous -should show- such-- reasonable doubt-,as 'would en.- title him- to the e x Iana wiheatti -i~a-ato rized. -to refer d o Tn: hic ease h wa-anto. action b-rought on ananiybn-i-tb. earlY p1ran-.of theyear 1817. Soon afterwad a ilwsldby th eedn tlt,for relief Against the bond. - A,Yery slocttimue bl, tu~e; Sihi enmr As.. sizes. nf 1817, a motion was.- made by: the dlfeuadmt,at-r aw, the plai ntif-F in equty to stay-the -trial,- -Wias~c so,aaeftused on the groundofter near approacle o'f.thearsza M-M17,ut ~ 4'ann'lJst wag granted to-stavexeeution. Tlhetrisl,c*uw;,oeenk,tle m Assizesofthitvear. -h:pan~l.bagd'. edc,Jali the following trm the-plzintiff-at.law ti-oved tegtt Qdsov the injunction. - In-tthicourse of-,th!e trc,ithcdmergte wesdiscussed -at-length, and-the-'whole argument.':diatinctly- beiar -,-cttt is to .say, the grounds upon which'- tbe ivjunction -was gr9nto4 were argued,and-fina)ly decided, Tbe-riatter-stoodfprJutlgme,4e-tbitt tern,, andarhere it stood-for some-time alier. Iow),ong did~th~y aupaos-? ground tnat there wa's at legal -defence, -of which.i, .h other, party might have availed hiself-at:law.',, Rigo aix mwa ga~te on the point, butble would;not-sexadin pcaseorv WA,uaina t tae.. paed that one pazty,. an-obligee ink tbeos,itecor-otoe three years and s-halfbcaubskpt.asiddhe'hrfe months; kfter the iiijunte:a.i vda~te osttepan tiff i'Ving only'sreasonablalton i,hnpcyhc ta fallerthii,c6d.ul not"le es- thas ib ~ l Tiria n consideration: incidental-- fto - this! t~'vsj~ eegdmr attention'-tharn- be. Aold at :pre-sent.t,..5,i 1~~cc,j deration 'went to-- th&e constituttional sgto a~f~nei h ]urisdictian assuamied- by.- this (,ouxtt, If-sA be-(td-n 1i17; hat there was.- no, lea,guj j p~ and-the argument-uponmthat questcozgb&e i3td h a the, injounntlon granted at 411? , .VnAsa ,Ioguie ea n Ipex ttteof EdabJ, wc -n detrmnbl bj the'law&-af..teI eeie A~lt~ d by. other-course Zan--that oC'the same lW~s~b-~s o-I having'-determinatior, -of thMt. laW- s'snt~P sr aind ~Ihdispensable - Li~tnrfnent ias, eve,bl ,n ity tat the: petitioner, was -vtiiout.-xemedy w, ls,aiclt~tis coOrt. -audtme Aomisim -oe. te'prsa:t nijg lw, against- Ibedauthent n,dee ofoP Wippt !andi'j&s-v hg 6Oaon'law<wasslecl'd iw8sC,r'MnY,wavs5 'qbe overcr-~ rhneri.,irg lsonit7b "e till wellhatEAh libatstcM e-XISTaLwr nis - measi~'oin.g'ee thi owatrnn 1Pw sa gmhz-jujd~tss h bouts 'woula be, eetremely. Itocklerate. He woul&a-wisI the plAn *ibich was aaoptid. witlsiteiiet tboiheappohatmeiii,df- ithcortraiis- Dion to inkah!e-idito the abume of the Scbthcourtk, to.be followed upon thepresept occation. lIf thav commiission, together wltlxp~r. ,sons in office in 'Scotland, were aiiPointed, idividtiala Wbo bad, no ~onnexionIwith thiecor Ie.wo becatuse it wa&knTowl that they' wer i?rnsa~td b ano'ble lord who Possessed the hiighest influence in Isi 11 jeeys oucis were morally certain of acquiring great weight in the Co inisiQn. 'Ile fimy believed that -if the Scotch corn. mission haad betsi framed without an infusion of memnbers from this countty5 it bsever would -have produced a -report -of the slightest cons i4&dti~'the houseiDr thecouantry. Nobody acquaint- ed with Scorldisd' #ii(tfld.spute that 'the-Scotch commission would have been worb thfif'~.less, had 'it not omptised amonFst its mnembers persohat 6bb~,M uncormeted wlth'tl5ecourts- wbict were the object of snq4ft e ~Viiind~iittood that the p resent commission was to be composed,6eniffly-itf persons cotiniected with-the Jossrt of Chancery, Mi.- PlEPL bere -MlAir inti6bSerV ation across-the table, which was inaudible. Mr. 'BiOO,GRAM l rwi jmd.41Tridoubtedly there ouaght to%be- some pefsonsconne&cted wixth th'ef'ourtof -Chancery 'in the commiirs- sion ut i it tete o be ompoed w oll,o in thei greater part;-of persns ho eld~f~e~ o predsd hiiha cort,it tould be the merst ockry ~Ve atemped o b - sn~sedon the coontry. It oul beusl~es t apoit ~ersnstos jnthe commission who, he wold not sa partook o the profts oYf thpeastyur, to irseflett, and *ould.be jbciioidto look ~on oemte hc e or even the right hois. gontlernin -opposite, wouldb nlnftcn side,r amonstrous abuse,asanvery trivial aff'air. The only'remnedy. which the house could have if the co mmittee wa.s to be appointed in the manner whfich he had described, ws0 to providle that there shouldl not be a r*prt of merely the result of the in- quir, butt that all the eviaeisce which mighit be taken should be- published, with the naames of the witniesses ('1 Hear," from Mr. Pee) : but that was not sufficient; much depended on the manner in whLich the inquiry would be carried on. if two persons were ap- pointed whose obje&t were to shielter abuses and stifle iniquiry, and two others who really desiredl to elicit truth, those two parties, al. though they would examine the same witnesses, would come to conclusions direCtly oppoasite to each other. Before he could entertain any sangulne expectation of good accruing fromi the proposed cominihsion' hie must know something, of its nature; and lie was here speaking rather of the individuals who wcrc to compose it than of the instructions thecy wrtoecIve hs everybody new i~bt e so orde as t mee, witli apparent efflect, theerivane cmplind o, ad yt wencarried into practice migh betotaly ugatry.Befoe h cold look forward to any ad. vanageus racicl rsuls fom her iznquiry, be most kneow i~heher he ndivduas seectd todonuct it were qualified' b~ their talents, knowledge, and experience for such a task; and w iether they were likely to have grown callous to the abuses they were isp. poined o ivesigae fom ein log accutstomed to witness them.- Iftheywere ersos ofthlat descfipfion-'if` their live ha h~ff sistd midt l ~1forms and teihnical-sub. riltes,thenhe astsay hati'eshould look uipon the pro. pose comi.aio as othng essthan -a miockery and a de- cepion ad afraduentdevceto heter from destruction abuses which were too fagrant to amtnylnger of palliation or defence. However, as the court of equt wa ot the only court in which abuses existedl at present,_-a thr eedelays in the courts of comnmon law, extremely distrsin nthemselves, but far less mis. chievous than those in ibe CutofChancery,-as there was an- othier evil in all our couirts stil more pernicious than the delays in any of them, namely, the enormioust expense of law proceedfings.- an expense which was so notoriously everwhelning as to induce in- dividuals; frequently to submnit to unJust demands rathier then ob- tain a ruinous triumrph by, contesting thiem-hie trusted that all these grievances would become the obiects of futuire inquiry, and, if the commiiission were properly constituted, even of their inv-estigation. If they were not submnitted to its examination, he hoped that some honourable memiber would come forward with a motion to, suibmit them to the examnination of a distinct commission ; for the abuses in question were so inimical to the due adlministration of justice, as to require instant suppression. For his own part, he couild not help askinig would kt not he better to begin with them immediately~ than leave t'hern for subsequient iniquirvy? Wouild it notbe better at the very outset of the inquiry, in the' irst step of its progress, to add to the powers of this- commission the power of investigating the abuses of the courts of common law, an'd thus to give the country, the pros. pect of having the lesser evils under which it laboured, peat in the same coiirse of remedy that was going to be applied to those which were more severe and inveterate ? An bonsourable and learned friend suggested to himi, that the equity sidle of the Court of Excheque.r, as it was neatly the samne in practcee a-s the Court of Chancers-, shouldI at any rate form part of the subject into whicli tthe commuission should be ordlered to in. qilire. He was certain that it y.ould richly- repay any atten- tion the commission mnight bestow upon, it ; and trusted that if it were orderedi to inqutire into the Courts of Common law, it would not fail to include in its labours both sides of the Court of Ex- chequer. Before he sat down, he could not lielp aigawr or two upon the defence which had benst sparteeaso the CouTt of Chancery by the right honourable Secretary for the Home Department. Those delays, it was said, were occasioned by the great increase of judici-al. business that hiad taken place in that Couirt, cspecisally in cases of lunacy and bankruptcy. Now the increase of business ini the Courts Of Comioni liaw far exceed. ed the increase in the Courts of Equity; but had not been attended by, aniythiing li'ke. a roportion ate increase in, the time of transact- inig it. Wihen Lord 1`1ansfield was alive, lie was thiought to liave perfoirmed a gTe,;t tiiing whien hie tried 60 causes in onie sittings. The late Lord Elleiiborouigh haul not triedl, but hadl seen set riswn for trial at one of liis sittings, no less than 5uB causes. lie allowed stcic a numnber to be rather extraordinary; -but he couldl not refrain fromi stating to taie liouse, and statinig miost posively, that the average numer at present was from 300 to 400 for each sittings-art incteae of business which, lie again repea~ted, far exceeded any that had taken place in lunacy and bankruptcy business in the Couirt of Chancery. lHe knew that the house ha sanctioned, and,a he th6ught, very un~ wisely, a measure to get rid of the arrear of business in the couurts of was,_exy. marLben,.compared with. the aryear of lunacy In thec6urts of equity. The delay,, too,'n h courts, of common law was very inferior to that in the court of equity. Indeed, in some cases, the courts of commoni law acted with great rapidity and despatchi. His lion, anda learned friend on the. otlier side would recollet that a case had been tried at the last sittings on the 20th of December, in which the cause of action had not accrued on tIme 20th of shie preceLding November. [le knew that the decision to which the court thlen tame, was not final upon every pa'int in dispute ; but when was any preliminary (lecsisoli ever obtained in so shiort a timie in the Court of Chanceryr ? Bie did not mean to say that thlere were no delays in the courts of commnon law, by no mean -Iie k-new that there were too many, anid was8 anxious to remove tlieni; alU lie meant to say was this,that the delays of the courts of comnion law vanishedainto perf'ect insigni- ficance, whenever they were compared withi those of thie Court of Chancery. (Cheer%.`lln conclusion, hie extpressed his gratitu(te to his hon. and learned fria'nd the Member for Linicoln. for the unwearied attention which he hadi bestowed upon this question, andl congratu- latesI himn upont thegrreat advantages wliceh he had already obtaine;d for the public in obtaining froni the ministeirs of the Crvifis an ad- mission thatthere were abuise.s in the Court of' Chancery which de- mandiedI reform. Reflecting, however5 that the ministers* hae undertaken to appoint a commission to take the subiect inito conisidesation..recollectinig thiat the house had full toiver to superintend and control the proceeding'sof chat comnmission--_eonsi. Idering that the original question remnained uncompromisteti by any thing which hadl taken place that evening-bein~ left at full 'liberty to formi his opinion of that commission according so the manner in Iwh'ichi it might be constituted and performn itLs duties, he could not help counselling his hon. und learned friend not to take the sense of the house on the motion whichi he hadl just made, but to wait pa- tiently till he saw the result of the labours of thte proposed comms,s sion. (Hear, hear.) dir. CANINiNG observed, that after the recommendation withi whic)h the hon. and learmied gentleman who had just sat down, had concluded Iiis speech, it was not his intention to trespass long upon thrIean patene of the house. But as the speehes of twso of the hen. members who had followed hisA right hon. colleague, the Secretary for the flome Department, appeared to turin almost entire~- IY upon the effectiveness and sincerity of the proposed coinmiss%ion, he thought thiat it wouldi be satisfactory not only to the house, bixtt Ialso to the country at large, to have an assuirance, not onlv on the part I f the nioble lor& who was thought to be rAost interested in this ques. Ition, but alsoontmtlmepart of ethers ofhis A5laet' inses-.an as- asurance which fnr his own past he mostwikgvgv,ta the inz quiry into which'thlat oomniissiou a oetr hudb as sinmee, a-'r imnpartial, and as effectual as it wa posbefrmnto make it. (Hear, hear.) Even if any disposition existe toD trifle with-so imn- portant a subject, lion. genilemen must be aware that no government in the present enlightenied state of the age could, after econsenting, to institute an inquiry, conduct it in such a manner as to prevent it fromi arriving at a salutary, and beneficial result. Ile, therefore, wyas -of opinion, that to anticipate a satisfactory antiaupco, conclusion to the laboure: of the commissionl, wouild be mOre conisistent with candour and good feeling, than to anlgur nothing but disappoint,. ment. mockery,anddeception. The points into whicll the commission would he more part-iciilafly ihstridcted to inquiire woald be, first, whe- ther it wasip6ssible tolessen tlietinjeconsumed; andsecondly,whetper it would ha possible to les.sen the expenseirncurred,bysuitsin eqity. The third point, which was, perhiaps, the most important ot- all, would be, islietlier anY norti on of the business no%~ discharged by, the Lord Chancellor of Ingland, gould, withoist detrnienses to the puiblie., be turned over to any othier, and if so any other, to what pub.. lie officer ? These Points would formi the Principal suibjects intO which the commission would have to examine ; anid he now statecd. th em, not with any viewv of giving an opinion as to the results at which it wvas probable thiat'the commission might arrive, butt v;ith a view of asurin th hoase,that into; each ana all of theini examination would be ilisitituted in a sPirit of moost perfect sincerity, and with4 -,iI mOtany r iomm esid 04tepr of GSoytanment to give fuleffRect to any ecomenations whiceh it might conceiv'c necessary to make. Witli regardi to the constitution of the.commission, ispon which, af- ter what had fallen fromn time hon. and learn ed gentleman who had spoken last, he might be expected -to offer a few reussarks, lie iouild siimPlY Observe, tlhat though it mliglht not be difficult tb, 'him to des- ~czb~~h ZIentNsillitwoldbe difficult fhrhimt toicm.i-ehe-- ....son vIs on wlii Go .II WS.a ob opsd eas oethose per- sons on whlom Government might be intlined tn impose this duty, might for various teasons, be not altogetlher disposed to undertake it. This, however, he could state, that it was the desireof Government to place in this commission individuals who wvere best qualifiel by their age, knowledge, and long experience iil legal matters, to delm charge its functions ablv and eff'ectually.wlho. from their Fank in life, would be enabled' toi declare their opinions witheut fear,favours, or partiality, and who, from their past services to the state,woould have authority sufficient to recomm-nend their- decisions to the favourable consideration of the house and the colntry. '(Hear, bear.) The horr. and learned gentlernan who had spoken last, after hint- ing his dislike to this comnmissson, and his doubts as to its efficacy, had cursorily observed that he should like the schetne of it better were it to comprehend within its'range'the various' abuses of the courts of common law. He asked-the houie whether, if his right hon.- colle%gue's proposition, had gone that lengtb, it would not'have been asserted that the object of his'sas to divide blarne by diffusing it over a larger surface, and to incurnibeir inlquiry by multiplying the subjects-to which it was to be'dfedtg 7 (Hear,he,ar.) iS is right hon. colleaguehad confined the inquiry wiuhtn the limits he had menioned, in order to render it -nkore effec-. ral: not iirechlsding it into any other part of the system that was in- cambered with the same defects, but dire.ti it Ztto certain deined and positive evils,in the hopeof being better enabled thereb__ _tae aseels' and remove them. Tn dloing-xo, hisv 'e:., hon fi _"- -he Cutiif of Olhsnc. " -Vret, it l e4tg.th ojc Df TiM4 ts n is,osiepr two dete pr y' ntJth ltpik hae be fo i fi4eteiil;wredi3fl Poin6tea crutv intwhry ~ds&ision; u'th s 'ht W oist 'd etp .t'h nottilejn- d#1sd wto hihasthe- object of If. more' pa JAfrM tInder bli ih epart. Det iright hon. f, '-a .et .66coCSed during hegetr part of last summer. ijadVIT o ririto f' this comle- linbenannounced to the h6use! at the 'tints that the. honi. and- learned meinbir for Lincol'n gave noticef.f his pftcen rfsotlon, his. Nlajesiy'sM iinlsterswoAsd hvelten ixpud'ot gel SaMnt Iielutsdrins. hat were now thownt ouit 4aganst themh *PA als-k to tbi adaiidonal impdtation that it had been annoutcf&.e1aoe Ia '*eie gtfaidd to meeer'the motion on its intrinsic jDits;eJ wasaosiyd& bhh- wourable and learned memnber to stAte, Oma the tone of 'his attack ind,greatly facilitated the objtt which 'he had in v'ie*: with onei mxcepit,o -which he should hereatler' have occasion to recur- aaniely,:the plant of the hidnouia1le etidlibef for septiriting' the ~egal and political character of the Chancell threrez was 4fttcely any topic in his speech to which- he shliOld obect: inideed, no 'peech, that was necessarily of aw- aceddo tn.cudhive been ;o successful in leading to -the lfie owhc ln hte siiieain; ~Utted to come, as the speech whih lehoraean legried 'n6mber had that eveniing delivered. H wahislsuethat tven thlose who had come preparea toatc h od hnelot wit'h all their artillery of eloduence, wol erjie ofind tbat it pr'esent'it was unnecessary-. 'Every mnwowarelynxuS to oherten the delay and ioi simnilify h rcieo h or of Chancey woul feelsatisfedin atniogis obect, without assa)- .ng the chnaracter of the judge who pf~ddin, it nd would see that to pursue his object further at present would be 'inconstistent with the conduct of a public-spirited man, and woiald atvouir too stron3gly of individual persecution. (Cheers) The house would Drt tfiat account be more and more satisfied; on ,reflection, with its decision of the ~resent evening; and would even now f~Ino alight pleasure in rec lecting tat t e charatefr oftifta individlual who had so long flIled the high office of Lord Chancell6r; would 'stanid as un- impeachied at the close of his long and valuable career, as it had done itt its commencement; and that,whxtever mbight be the resuli of the inquir now issuedl no matter whether Lord EIdbn was so be the las Chnel r o igland who *as to, unite inihls own persn all the iffeent unctonswhich novw belonge to that, high office, or whethr an meas houild be devised of dpollecting them into one ef- fectve ho~ an betowngtem on aisingle individual-a consumn- matin wich e wuld uchrater Jtmiheld, thani a separation of Lhen hldby iferet fficers-he ivolfltescend. to posteiity with unsulie fam, ad .~is-the.- en es.r:et. ltatioxi of havinR i~ apaue anda irtoo aall ciscntemtporaries. CCheersr) lie Coul not quit this subjetwhotaiu rermarking, that there was one point in the speech oftehnetbe and iered memnber for Lincoln, from which he diffred otwiey He could never wish to see the lcgal'and' political chiarmte ofte L-ord Chancellor of England made distinct and separate,'~oDnsideringz, as he did1 that in the apoinment o shchig oIc,inoftepudtdistinctions of the British fiionatch~'hdlnn *std hafne ocicasion whben ttine crealtion of nailalltin~lt h Court of Chancery was under dicsin'nta ose, friiwhich hie acknowledged that he hadl psedicte tha much evil and i Lncoulvenience would ensue, but reprding which he couild not say whether his predictions hiad or had net been verified, from want of information on the subject-on a fo*ner occasion, he asserted, that ne had declared his opiniions to be it'imica to the separationi of the two characters of the Lord Clnancellcir; He thoughe that it Was one of tshe noblest and most valuable preioiradves-of the Crown of Eng- land, that it could take from the 'jalks of 'Westminster-hall the meanest individual-and whien he u~ed the word ni'eariest, he used it not vwithi reference t6 talents and intellc~tual endowni6rnts, hut to birth and original station in societj-and place him at o'nce in the head and 'front of the peerage of England ; and he never wishlfed to see the day when the Crown was deprived of thatbeautiful privilege, which, thougliit formed the veryetsenecof the m-onarchy, was at t'he same time the surest support aqa, bulwarlk of the democratic nat of our conxstitutiont. (Great cheering.. It was not, therefore, F.or the sake of Lord Eldon, much abd highly as he, reaprcted .tbat venerable nobleman, that he objected to the separation of line legal political functions of the Chancellor; but it was, with a view ofpreservr ing totinemonarcliyone of its most ancientandI invaluahleprerozatlVes, Df keeping open the passage fr-ens thegay powdered court to theviool. saCk, and of leaving to the lawyer the opportunity of givinir to the Crown his best services 'and to the Crown the opportunity of fitiding for thm an dequae and uitabe rewrd.Fr thie t ownb part,the sameindvidal,espcialy' s tty erdfar, i'ery fak from being in- country wyould be, supposink that' there were placed at the head of the hereditary magistTacy Of the land an individual unacquaint- ed!,- with its; laws and institutions. WVould not suc'h an.occurrence lower the r,'spect ii whiich they weed now un versahl held through- out thle countty ? anAil it did lower the 0tandaM of tha magistracv, and the dignity of the peerage, wouxtd it not.be inflicting a aeveie atid permanent injury on the constitutiob, 'lnstea4 of correcting one that was comparatively trivial aiid temapuiary P It had not occuried twice in the history of ouir coiuntry, thatthe cofid impartiality of the judge had given Way to the ~aernth'of` his political yisions ; and if in the long night of ignorance in which~sa',rs%te qr our asnals were in- volved,not more thadn two instancoesolkisiJ eicial proffigacy-could be discoveretd hetogtthtlevas n6t too boldt in saying that at an, ersoitligent as the present such Ingtances were not likely to oc- cur again. 'To avoid, however, a cottningensdy which he contended was remhote and improbable, it was ~Ow;jnropoqed'-to convert the LordCharellt iitoa mr% law er-.to destroy all the ancient grmn- as8pssble tie' race of men' ' Aa wih it 'had hitherto been us,)ual to select that ancient a,Rddistinguished officer. To such a proposition he had formerly felt, antd he still continsled- to feel, the strongest aversion. Differing, tbeerto~re,~ ag he did upon t insss portent point, fromnthe hon. and leai ,ed memiber for Lincoln, he could not consent to allow the commission tc~ direct its inquiries to t he proviiety of separating the legal and juidicial fitnctions of the Lor Chancellor. As he agreed in almost every other point with the hon. onember for Lincoln, hie had thoughtit necessary to speakl ra-. ther more fully on the only point upon which he differed from him. As to the object of the commission, thl honiourable member and himself fully concstrre-d.-it was to shiorten the delays, siml Iify, the proceedsngs, andi diminish the e,,j,ense- of the Coust of Chan- cery. The ri'ght hotnourable gentleman then concluided his speech, amid general 'cheering, by again rejoicing thati the personal cla- rm-ter of Lord Eldon, of whitch he spoke in:'term% of t.~ hightast eulogy, hadl been treated with the respect due to it by etvery pgr-~ soawholWa jonedin.tbe debate. son.wh . j OinedA ektplained. Ite had never dreamed of di- recting this COMMIssion to inquire into-the abulseo of tlfe commnot laws' courts ; he thought that if they perfonineditheir duty propetly, they would find asuificient employmenit iax ptying into the abuses of thie Cotirt of Chancerv, Mlr. WILWIAIIqS rose to reply. lie observed, that he should hav'e executed his duty in a Very prilndver nisatiner, if he had attri- buted pre-eminencei to-any plan of his own for inip1sdting 'tin condi- tion of' the suitors in Chancery. What he hid -wished to iapress upon the house, and still more upon tb6 country was, that the ststte ot' the Court of Chancery was such as tAcall for the most serious tt'- tention and cons.idteration of l~arlianment-, Afir what hadajust'fallen from tie right lion, -secretary, it wouildmnit bextivil candid, or de- corous tot do niiore th'an express a doubf~f dt- h dcimtite ,prgs of this Proposed commission ; bext he'-trsrsteA that lie mighitbep"er- mnittedI to say, without giving'oftence, thiat it might he composed of c-ertaini elements (to use the right horionrable gentleman's own words) which could not fall to create,--he wdula not say a sus- ilicion,-.-but a strong ap~rehensi6n that the in' ai wud be productive 8r no beniellcsal cons 'eili'ST ~rse htoi niOn tiPan a presentiment whichhead.ttteom isn miight be composed of members of his ow rfsin w it was his opiio that a worse composed commsim ol o i omd esecill if the mem'bers of.it were to besecetedlbLodEdnr te mebes afis aesty's Governrsieiit. Insaigts,hws strongl supuorted by l'ormei preceilint- In th~ reino ae . *hel te house hart determined to formn s~sid ctuliiti n quire into the'abuses of courts of. imssice,tlie King tent ddw m message to it, stating that lie woul& i"fititate'the. int.utry. himself. Sir E. Coke, and the independent"ui'eTibera wi had proumoted the inquiry, sent back their acknowehedmesstaAd King James fOr his gimcious i,ntentioni-, told hirm that te ei d Ie obliged to nsf ihkin rdness, hut that tfiey ps'teiaqti.fr'hm sbbelve, having previously agreed in{ri eeht l~!Isgsor of inquiry was only-made io stifle all I hWlaeem oJis-mow part, he nmustz say that he.jrnew' uo'et4itih dwr o er,a- moured of existing alauses arid so rtune'oms ae(ems for subistaice as the snemliers of thadt 6?ii~1i le&gel (Alauigh.). Uulefogt ts c missions had aeied, inW6iic tey, had fdi~fdtljnc- t C-ould lie fo"rg et wxat the commissio4vrs Sptoi * mie inta what they had not done - (Hear,i ea oudbefrgttht when Sir Samuel Romilly denoun certA u ~sa b surd to reasona and fritghtful to hun~iAity.,-4whit?i tbefe wras scarcely aman in the country'thmit was n ' &xou .td. obilite't ftim the statute book certhin OboVetatC lls hili r4ideild an set coos- nuitted oneyard in the wate'r AcapitlOfeno-e,iNfii1st theA fietitldit as a trvialmiad nouwine'eomnjrti* Qi(ya& ertnteame place on. d4ii -VoUh,(O e ore that no'-'ll A5i tine empire wats 'func tto controvert the propriety.ofrentaitg those ssg o 'incnsitentstaute, exeptthos wh hadevoted thenpselves to tli' nd ha ~*p teawxlier5 'Tl*lemnted,Judges of the toedthese~v.~ ith ie* prin4f it` to- t~C altera- tin anheoad04o fujj ?h*i iTjikt.dthir jins_ ~~ in lexnsng tine k~~~~~not' aiforra to lose the little 6todc 'f trii c hthElr plodding industry had atfast acquired. (A laugh.) Tfiieiefoi itwas'thathe.predicted that if thc cinisiion were selectedafr ltthoie-who had beer accustotn- ,ed tixlk intt tiatlimels of tln lw, Ahe toubtol ldlind thit it wk.; nOthin-.else than moekety itid de4eption. le haid, hdw& ever, nho ObJ'ctiofi to letting the eordisslon have a fair: trial, ,inder the' eyt of the hoase and under the eye-of the.country. It it ?hoald pioduce beneficial reinl'ts, aU would -beelv1l-be should be natisfiesu and, what wai' moreoimporta'nt' tbe country wiould be content. (C'heers)- If, however;t:the end of a remonabla timei it sheiuld;be found t bea comlni;ion for-sereening abui-s from in. 9uiry, and,not for inoiiry into ab, then'-he vintured to predict, 'tnat vjth ten fold force of'arglsat t and with- huILbrt4fold force of, .remonstrance, public opinion would tevert to,tsi 'important sub, ject. (Hear.) 'H ewdishappy that ineinad at lengih obtaleea at admission that'in'u'r gasn aaeuii-rW. teo tUed that a,t t.li disusszonFhih taeyhaton:lii*vme^Xijustousi- baetsioin,'pomt pous etlogiums were mu'e, sno, iide d-oni thenditidu#l:*ht ioupliorted tine sy,stern,'bue t'hb l.esy't?itself :Minister; h.ow. 'ever,'had now foundsout thit it uiM alshwasinte- hut their s1a? aii3 longer; end thati'hether'thimy likedt it otno1, tine2ymtstCgltent St some' i',nveattitimi of' 'tie'abuses'6compWsaied of s Wishi 15&t tbe speech> o tbc rig ft'horourable'geidemns.efpoe&ite1-'1 c.osib not help obeievipg that lie- hid iiots heliidto th-arguDi*tsbhvhiCh ht~nad utged, bult si:d'repedt tie "tietia*hachbe~ 3P a 'urd. '(k-.lasgi,b Tliexri~tibhonhnaVleY IreS beci sis ;;ter. muedc 'S it ap*icited'sosbt'to' "t'ei wsino rdiike It; 'K ba:t it'h to~~~~~~ dihn -9 i"lis^r I^lim^e)"hm4iPtr dt~cd~'i&cnuil n ~oi'e~iiiChd'?b snItdieu~tibow i fln~ ~idn~ss'~ntosn~ IIiII~ 'Na w .th6y in6tls.ent u XOi f the tord Clhaellor;: al that ie had stated Wm, t!W intitmes oflet s emneresnctha fl the re,ne, different opmihIfl MA^bee7n-e tertainednte1 t, aondu cerefore it wag thatie khttbere 'ni*t sity -for in{dng into it. i hi itatiti4 itbitquestlon; hrladonly sttd what be filt,.whenhe' 7sid 4haitif-itwerewittsethab7he. other- judgea of the land should keepi themeles aloof*rom pioticd intr:gues7 It coild not. be;a .recoent minndaitioft o'the Lbtd Chancnllor, the hr,tJudge-in the lafd, ,t; he identified As the headandfrontof tbe great predominant tactibn in the State. (Hear, heir.) 'It was an ex&eptioh -to -he- gen*ail rile,' and an'exceptioni hich, he conceived, createdin the 1eople.an unfavourable opinion regarding the admidistfttiOtl of justie. All that'he,bad meant to say, and all that he believed he had said on this pohin vws, that it was fit matter for inquiry. . . Be repeated that opinmon,rnotwthstanding thebeauties of the present practice wihich the riglihthon. sewretary hid s elaboriately detailed to the house. The., learned member, inBoonchution of a reply of whichl we can only give the-outline, observed, that if the present promises of mninfsters should prove jniincert, anlif their commission should appear to have screened abuse instead of detecting it, he should revert with increaed strength of ar ment to the necessity of lnstitutinf an in- quiry in theComnmons rouse of Parliament, to which at this very mornent he tnust own that he should give the preference (Hear.) The motion was then withdrawn by consent. FINANCE. The CiIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the report of the committee on the 4 per cent. acts be brought up. 3fr. HUhlE objected to the bringing up of the report at this late hour of the nighit (hi.f.past l0)t and wished financial business to be postnonedtiU to-motrow when it might be brought on early. TheCH1AlNCELLO oftfhe EXCHEQUER said, thatitwas ofsome cobseqiteneethat the reportshould be brought up as early as possible. The question immedu',tely before the house relative to tbe 4 per cents. could give rise.to little discussion. Afr. 3ARING said that he saw no objection to the bringing up of th'e report, provided the honse did not go farther, and that other opportanitles ihould.be allowed for discussing tbie subjects of the righthon. gerntlema-n's statenment last raght. The CHXANCELLOR of the EX2iCHSlQUER mnentioned, that by allowing the report to be brought ulp, the house was required to do noth-ing but to agree to the tesolutions for tbe reduction of the 4 per cents. Mr. CALCRAFT contended, that the subjects of the budget were but imperfectly discussed last night, aild that there ought to he ano- theryeneral discussion before the house went into the separate details. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that an agreement to receive the report did not precudel discussion, as such discussion might take place in any subsequent stage of the proceedings necessary to the passing of such measures through the house. IMlr.CAL,CRAFT, on this understanding, withdrew his objection. The reeort was then brought up and rend. On ?he motion that the resolutions be agreed to, Alr. HUMNE wFishedd to know if the sum of 300,0001. borrowed in the department of the woods and forests, partly from the Bank, and partl, from an insurance company, was to be paid off, or the interest reduced to8 lperceft; = - The CE NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, that notice had been given to these parties that they must consent to a re- duction of interest or be paid off. Some arrangement would be made. M1r. HUME advised the funding of such debts. and said that the Government ought not to allow money to be thus lying scattered in different quarters.-The resolutions were then agreea to. AUSTRIAN LOAN. On a motion bring made by the CHAMCELLOFe of the ExcnE- QUER, that the house go into a comamittee on the convention fer the ieiayrient of 2,500,0001. by Austria, in lieu of the debt due to this cointr3t, Mlr. HU\V, becg~ed to ask a question about the state of the Rus. sian loan, as we were now X accept of a composition from the Em- peror of Austria.The Government clf Russiahad borrowed,,0O0,0001. from=this country, which he (Mlr. Hiimej believed had been em- ployed to prepare for war with us. SVe had continued to pay the Interest on that loan at 5 per cent., but werestill told that we should beindemnified. Now what he wished to know was, whether there was any probability of repayment; because if there was not, this debt should be conisolidated with our other debt, and the interest reduced Jike that of our other securities. If we were bound to pay that monev,wve should not at Ileast be bound to pay five per cent. for it when the interest rnight be reduced to 31 The CHI{ACBLLOR of the EXCfE;QUER answered, that he could not give a direef reply to this question., The idea expressed by the hon. member had iikewise struck him but he had not vet examined the treaty so far as to be Able to say how his purpose could be carried into execution. Afr. BARING observed, that the loan in question was not made to enable Russia to mrake war on this cuntry; but it was advanced for a putpose which hishos. friendwould perhapTs t'ink as unjusti. iable.. The money was advanced to the Empress Catherine, and employed by her in arepafations for overthrowing the liberties and independence of Poland. It was ajointloan of England and HIolland. The hoise then went into a commiftee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that hi. therto tlieloan to the Emperor of Austria had been kept separately from the other S per cent. consolidated annuities. As, however, a treaty had been entered into to-annul the liability of Austria for this debt in consideration of an advance of 2A millions it would not be necessary to continue this arrangement any longer. If the committee, tberefore,sanctioned the terms of this convention, the distinetion be- tween this and the other parts of the put-ic debt should cease and the imperial annuities should be consolidated ivith the other 5 per cents. Alr. HUAME was Diot prepared to agree to a resolution for sanc- tioning the tenus agreed to by Government. The committee was told tbat Austria had consented to advance 2.A millions to this coun- try; but by the mode in which the Vpaymenea were made into the Exchequer, the receipts fell considerably short of that amnount. Here there was only an unfair diminution of our just daim, but cven an unfair reduction below the amount actually stipulated for. Why, he eo1Ild ask, were the contractors, Reid, Rothschild, Ba- ring, and Co. to rec?ee 5 ner cent for their discounts, when others vere onlv recehrinz 38 ? thy had such a preference been given to em eo ers.refl~hic7rMrhio cost upwrda of00,I ? Mr. HERRIES replied, that by thevpapers on the table the clia. mecter in which the contractors stood t Government would be seen, and it would be made manitest tnar toveronient GuU lno ne,o- tiate with them as parties proposing to advance a loan to this coun. try. In offering the terms agreed to they acted as the representa- tives of the Emperor ef Austria for tbe payment of such a sum as he was disposed to grant. The rate of discount, in case of the imme- diate advance of the whole sum, was as much a part ef the original Xontract as the amount of the contribution itself, They submitted certain conditions to the Treasury, of which this rate of discount was one, and ioVernment had no option but to accept or reject the whole. It Was not hi the power of the Treasury to give less than -5 per cent., as the contractors would not Teceive less. The whole sum had been accordingly paid iltito the Treasury, and the stipulated discount allo*ed. * Mr. HU;MIE professed himselfAtill dissatisflea witlh tbe statement and defence ofthistraneaction, The British Government had made no treaty with the contractors, but with the Emperorof Austria. The.Emperorhad been praised last night for the generosity and ho- nesty of is character. He had engaged to advance two m!lliona and a half without deductions. If five per cent. discount were demand- ed by the contractors for immediate payment, when others only re- eeived 3 per cent., the country would be defrauded to the amount of the diWTerence. We fWas anxious to see the contractor's letter as we3l as themioate of the Treasury. We had either contracted with his [Imperial Majestv to receive 1 millions, or we had not. If vvhad, v.e should have received that sum without any deducdon, a.d the contractors had no right to demand more than common in- terest for their discounts. If we had not, why speak of the generosity of the Emperor, and state at 2j millions a repayment short of that amount5 itir. iAlir ?J.LD41U 4 1VW U k,. ' - not catch. Ifr B.AR[NG observed, that he would mtalce a short explanation, though his erional interest in thet subject befote the commit. tee might seem to fe1der silenee most becoming. Ile was, how- ever, in this transaction, qgite independent of the opinion of the com- mittee. The strict diplomatic character 'of that transaction, it would puzzle most people to describe. It was both political and financial. political at Vienna, and financial at London, The contractors had to arrange 7ith the Go- vernmpnt of this dountry the amount they would pay in considert- tion of their engagemelit with Austria, and the interest of five per cent. on discounts composed a pfrt of the original contractL Govern- mentmight accept or not the offers made it; but he would say, thou:th onls five'hundred more had been requiredf at the peril of breaking of the negotiation, that five hundred vould not have been giver. the public fundIs of Austria had improved since the settle- ment ofheraecoet vitb this country, but at the time of the con- tract those who entered into it could not have accepted of othet terms. At. CANNING satd, that AtIstrAa had offered 2,600,0001.; b ut the raising of that sum depeuded onr her powers of borrowing. The Goayerament of this country de6sired Cd hbe gentlemen here respon- sible fcr the payment. Thev made their tertms w:th Austna, and the Treasury here had it in theif option to accept or not- The five per cent, interest on discount formed part of the original contract, whith would not have been agreed to without that condltion. Mr. HfUME atill contended tha't there was a loss of 50,00W1. on this transaction, and that if the credit of Austria did not allow the contractors to give more for a nominal artiou'ht of her money than 2,456,I01., that nominal amount should have beenaraised so as to af- ford the 2,5&l,WO. without any deduction. The CHANCEMIXLR of the EXCHEkQUER said that the hon. gent. laboured under a mistale, in supposingthat the agreement with the Austrian Governitent for 2 milions wasmade first, and the dis- count settledwith the contractors afterwards. The Austrian Go- __ - -n _5.1_t., n4' f nnv.t wic the contractors I ofteredd to pa'2& illions, on condition of the rate of discount. it the Treasury ha,d att accepted of their terms, the money could not h r {e >"V,RUVE :aould wish wt see the Austrian state ptper, in whicb the Emueror, acknowtedging iebt of 20 millions, hfd the suomneeto propotse a composiuon of2 be recollected that whena the hn mebe for Buckinghamshirc (Mtr. Smdith> brought for- waut &~icitff he the subject, the late Lord Londovnderry, in his pe- 6 mi nner, te the matter withi great indifFerte , and ad, theatthoi n d the whiole. counitry insjAe out, we could 'get n heright hon. gentlemani (rtlr., Canning) lhaa been twoe uei bt at was 2s millions, f r a oilprincipal sum ff mi ionr and its accumulations, for which Mr- Pitt had aiwecudue teEmpseror in his own court? After come fut ron. member sai-at. any rate, he asoul like to see th e attempt at resaouing by which Austria would show that she tblogh she bac ace justly anadhonourably by paying 2,1500,0001. in discharge of a debt of 22,000,0QO1. l Mr. CAN NING said, that succeeding as he had done to the ina- nagernent, of the sigotixtiori after it had -attainedI a certain point,.he neihetwoud atejettb akerecitto himselfthat so mttclhaa been obhane,: >eitler i^'ilini it 'fele'O?ithe.becusce i'n the o,iz:io .r some gentlemen the amount to he received was so small. BaLt this he woulul say, 'speak ng as -an individual, anid not as skuiedntir, hi ih6uld have entertained great, douibOia wether he aboWtI havejmlIed! upon Ausqtria for any payment at aLll. JIaa.the q4mti6nit n Eri~i a cout,f honour, he much doubied.whetlier titiouldiInot- avebleelnso decided. Ije would teU the honourable ilgen;van.tbe *~ns"con, which, in hisopifliqn, hadi weakeniedl oua daiuCuii'n .uatra. .1f, in pn'vate ie, it f aiac'smonao hii.~p.gtig neiavaTnisied,heasliould,in A,vetilew1t e1'a-subseqet acont, pay ever a balance to hirm, witdeftt' 'in Y` feil himrself. acquitted Of ttfi~ tfziisactiofl.. It Q5~'jto induce Austria. so. join tbe--4Wfl itrsns.adePPkeitlt~rac,arid .themebesinganarkfof-ssAb*idy 1 tysa~paceas4lnovstiheu "'nOvrh azfr wesbgh~i stil e. tw i arean~ ~eeoe~, w hd~ a la~ I ~~~Wi* ~~trvl aev* l jh.ea t ~~~Z~~7~In sr1ikh~~~~he~outotAmt. treble e~a that very 9"ot.? --'The genliemnix ot'i~hose suff'eriwhe had thttsaspoken wast ami-Mdt x nck ~senisble Alio` and contrived. to avoid' the worst effects A2lchslsslit have aZlfen uapon him-but no thanks toth Gnu o Cbaosi.- Te next case was onie to Y6 bicb he had atllud. edaled the.facts h2d beenvoluntarily stat&d tohiim. Hermust, 'Of necesimty dateline himself-to a partial statement of them, unilest h.&bosiouratle and learned friend an the other aisle, (whiose appear. anice in his place, whether his.appointment were attribultable to ge. nnI o piagrunds -of fa'iour, gratified him (AMr. Williams' verymuch woud codescnd- ssisdt hima with more details ThecaS wa tht o' "obbv. ordItountfotd.` The~ motion ws.- Of.iz ntelocornatur-oe,ooef thote modes by which thle Court eontrnte "tOple~ and ".tease' her suitior. The matter go! Intotheaperin he hap-e of exceptilons though the original was.I bil fied or ccont,in the year -1812.' It was beard In 1815. A., Maibty~l c?oswe made~ae-ht bon. and learned friend oppodut 11g3tenoose.w5oad t; buclitit meinory must have suferend a won. derful damage from forgctldness if he could not state enough tc surPrise the house (n t e years 1814-15.16 there was not less thar -forty. Two, at' the evotiiona-*ere at lenigth disposed of; the othel remained to th is tut undetermined anid irn the mean time judg, mient was defeiemd. But this diai not touch the body of the -ase, whicb; w&s hung up on this interlocutory matter down to thi3 year 182, end thiere perhaps it would hang until an- ether atid mor,e serious day of juagi-eent should occur. Tht lest case to which he would refer he should -have to go into al rnore length, as it seemed to him to he the most complete illustrationof allthe questiona*bichbhehad brought forward. The case was that otf1 "Cop;s v-. Middlleton." in 1793, a bill was filed for an account of the'dstateof Not;, deceased. and pra-iog that cer. tain land, with a, *indsaill, shtould be includfed and di stnibuted ac- cordingly, on the ground that it had been fraudulently conveyed by Nott witho-er consideration. -In 1796 there was a decree for ani account. The mtetter then went into the Allaster's office, and therE it remained. hlow long did the house think it remained there? What would they think of nineteen y-ears ? ( Hear, hear.) In 1815, by grira good luck , it felnnel its way out again. Not that he would have it understood, and lee' was anxious to save his hon. and learned ftlends oppositte the troubLe of arming themselves with unnecessary objection,ta there was any patrticular urgency uised to bring th, matter on. He did not Impute any part of this delay to the persons -the cause slept :Tmerely because it was in Chancery (laughter), where timne was, of little or no account, and where the ignorant peo- ple would persist in say-ing and believing that there was a great deal of delAv. Blythe way, if his motion were rejected, and it should.be TeSOlveid that nothinig ought to be done, he would make a suggestion which would perhaps he more worthy or' the attention of the house, tw'have a dlapper appoited Eo the court, whose duty it should be to awaken the catuset; from time to time-ever 3, -, or 7 yeara-.-or according to any other division which should be cOnsistent with tlfe fMeings of the courLt. n1815 theMasp,ter made his report, to wbich of ,MssM thereiweretexceptions brought. fIn818 they were heard, and part of the questionj, as to the boyothe cause, namely, as to the conveyance of the land, was decided. The excTtions were handed aver to the Hfigh Court of Chancery. But time, whichi Passed so easily in the Court of Chancery, was performirg its, usutal ape:ations out' of doors: the windmill which was ?art of the sub- ject in contention,' felt its influence TIhis windmils passed out of existcnce--.it only lived in history-it wras to the cautse what Tray, -as to the Iliad-it was for ever gone. (Laughter.) Should thie dilligent traveller seek,for it, he might by zealous assiduity discover the place where It once stood. But while the Ilearned brothierhood wcre eeaing their wordy warfare abouit it in 1818, it was levcl =WtI the ground, and not worth the paper uised In strug.. gling for the righ to it b.Z the sagacious Combatants. (Mlurh lau%hter.) It was- not Irom him that this repre4ents.. tion camne-thougth, of course, it could be nothing but the ignorance anud follY of poor deluded wretches which could bring them to say that there was delay in Chancery-it was a cry from people out of' doors whio knew nothing of the beauties and excellencies of the ju. Xiadiction. The ignorant people of Chichester had, however, said as uinuch ; and they hacl framed a caricature, in which they contrived to tOtow ridicule upon the Coutrt of Chancery through the medium Of this very Awindmill. Hle had seet, the caricature. The right hon. gentelemn'pposite represented the people of Chichester in 1814, -and could say whether or not they were ignorant, very ignorant- whether they were purely Bireotian. They were certainly rot -altoge.. ther without invention. They hatdreprese~nted the windmill iniutter decy wiheblems of the causes appended, which refeired to the proeeigsi Chancery, aznd undlerneath was written "1Ad/ince sub )suic li et."(Lud laughter, and cheers.) The r;ght honour.. sable and learned gentlernan ha~ produced this very caricature in the proceedings, which gave no small elucidation to the arguments for delay and postponement, toether withi their consequences, which obtained in chiose courts. tCheera and laughter.) This was the first act of the trs~l-comedv. He begged the house to obserye, that - he advaniced nothing which had not for its basis arithmetic and the azeiumulation of stubborn and undeniiable facts. Ile would now procLeed to give them a specimen or two from the taxed bill of costs which he held in his hand, and which had born authenticated by a isufficient tribu-nal; and they would particuilarly pay attention to the Circumstance, that the bill of costs related to ecxeptions,wbieh leere twely interlocutokr-y matter upon the fringe, avs it were, of theau.se; andlthe items whbichhe proposRedto read, or the greaterperttoccurred after theT agument, in waitin,gtor the judgmeset. Itcommenced in lii Jary term, 1817. " July 6,-Auendingcourt, exceptions in the paper, lOs. July 7,9 10,13 14,15 16,17,18,20, the like2 with lIN. each time. July 21,'the like, when th'e exce!,ptiolns were fully argued anid the Chancellorreaervedhis judgment, II.; term fee and letters, l1. ls. lid." (Laughte. There was a due proportion of fees to counsel, who 'Were equall busy in seeing thiat nothing at all was done in the camse. (Cheers, and laughter.) Then camne " Refresher to counsel to gtrjudgmaent-i.atedlng him;-the like to anotlhercounsel; and then, (this was in Mllchaelm,m term,1818), "To very many attendance in eourt this term to get judgment, when the Lord Chancellor fre- quently promised it (laughter), but-postponed his juidgment. (Miuch laughter.) Ternsfee and letters, 11.ris 8." "1Easter termt, 1819:- Term fee and letters, exceptions in the register's book far judg.. meat. No proceedGing in the causge, 11. Is. 8d. ; attendance In Court, 21. ;" and this was all that. wm.done in this term - and so the client fot es-te the otther terms, in 1819 and 1820, until Easter term in 12.(Ad ver cheap, too," sad a voice fomn the minliste'rial benches) Very teap, indeed he was surprised to find the aret escape so easily.it. 'eldom happened in that C-ourt, he e leved. (Cheers.) "E=ser termn, 1821.- tbeing absolutely necessary that the Lord Chancellor's judgment should be obtairied on the exceptions to thrAleaster's report, wbich judgmnent had been standingover frornJuly 1818." (Cheers and 1aughter.) "1Drawing brIef to counsel to bring his Lordshlip's attention to thee matter, two sheets." (Laughter.) "Attending court when the oxce ptions were mentioned,atnd the Chan- cellor said hie would give bisjudgbnent on the 7th, the first seal after tem. Attending accorldinglI when jutdgucent was postponed to the se- cond seal, 19th instant...ild, the liuke, when ju'dmet was further postponed."' (Laughter.) "121st, the'like" (laugh,esy.-."22d, the like." (Loud laughter.) "Leters.-.Term-f~eein the case." "Trinity Term-.Attending court-judgmentnmentioned. Iiianv attend~ances in thisterm,whenjudgmnent mentioned, but deferred." (Chieers.)" Mli.. chaernas Term,1821...Attenrling court., when the C,h.hrellor pro. maised judgmaent, term-fee, anid letters." And so lt went on throagh Hilary, Easter, and Trinity term of 1822, and not one step nearer te judgment than before. 1 M ilicaelmras term, 1822. Attending court whenChancellar having said he wished the mnerits to be fully arguted on both sides again, case fully gone into-1as. 4d. 25th exceptions wentioned, judgmenit postponed." "1 Easter term, 1823.-Re- fresher to counsel to getjudgment on the excepuons ; many attend. ances in court. to get judgmaent, when ChancelMr on mnentioning, porstponed the same-terna-feL and letters-no other proceedins in thlecause." ("Hear," and laughter.)"Trinicy term 1823. Refr,eshr to counsel to get judgment; attending cour, whn Ciiancelor zolemnly promised his judgment on Thursday next." (Laughter.) "Attending accordingly, when judgment further postponed toTlesday, 1st Jiuly." (Laughteri.) "July 1, atteniding couirt, whien judgment given, and ex- ceptions allowed." (Cheers.) Thusi, foyr five entire years, on the exceptions alone, were these prties tied up at an expens,e of not less than 2001.thsbigaluothfngofhemncs, -saere interlocutr rceig,wihletteqeto st h ,,enciF.l matter utuhd hswstescn c ftepee .lethird remtained-for somne time, he would notsyhofa,ds canit. Up till this period, no step had been takentogthefnou of the Court. 'What was the reas4on ? Whose fut was it? Time was the offender. WVas it miraculous that people should die, and that others should come after them who would forget all feeling of Interest in it?' The good people of Ceichester must have some notions of this kind, or they must indeed be more Bunotian than the choice of their representative would lead him to believe-they niaurally thought, that if the beginning and middle act had taken uip 80 years, it would be only, dramatic for the next to take up another 1S years And thus they reachedaitproximate probability that the wrhole fund wouldbhespeedily swallowed up in thatCharybdis of Chan.. cerytheDea Fud. (oudchers. And~'e th siplepeople wouldI Ar al eentsthee wa a estig pace her forthesuitor, fo whic hecoul lok ou an dwe inreflection upon thedlgtu .~ituadon in which be stood. But no ther- could be no ea-hr were no emianations fromn Ehat court Wr tirhase of equity fpree. log and unfailing prudence-of wisdom, and of the ms iheu jutice To touch the question more earnestly, let tehuecn sider well the cases upon which he had dwelt. Let casuistry elude--let bold and aturdy assertion overtu-rn those statements if they could. For himself, he declined all credit which the fraute might be disposed to place in his integrity or his judgment resting all, as it concemed the motion, upon the bare facts. Ilie had benm warned in amost emphatic mnanner of his sigisal ignorance upon the subject. He had acted with becoming circumspectionl. -H had taken extraordinary pains in grounding his observations on strffldent truths. Here he stopped. He would not agrgravate the demeritst of that Ignorance with whiich he had been justly reproach.. ad, bypropoiu-or a remedy any scheme of his own - and, in plain sineriy,hecu'l nt uderak toadvseanything, even though he shold e aked wihouhav inthelrtplaceheard the arguments adsugesronsosUpstieea~ wthottheuse,afterwurds,of tilebest lighs wichcoul bebroght o cearthe sub~ject. A comraittee was hemasue wich f a oterswasmost likely to meet with th-e views of all partiesi. The first atteton of the house undoubt- edly should be given to that question which had been touched upon b the onomab memer fo XId.ua,tescm uis resulting from that grievous load laid upon the transactions of justice. He would give them one criterion to guide their judg- meat, taken from the issuing of decrees frotu the Registrar's office, It was wel known to the professional gentlemen about him, that the marndatory part of a decree,-as it would also be found in the returns now nmade to the house, was compriset-in a very brief compas;s and that, too; in cAses which wvere o extraordinary extent iD the plead. ings. But by the prictice of the Court, the copy taken from tbe re- gister recitd all the previous proceedings. So that he knew of one particular case in which the decree wras, set forth in 94 sides, most of which must have been idle verbiage, as six only were rYes. tive to the mandate of the- decree. For the use of the other parts, hIe %eed only say that the. whole of the matters in question were Rlted, ir the first instince, in the billaudanswer and were already on the- recrds of the--courL Lord Kenyon, when he rebuked a purtwo*rifbritroducingsolusage intoan instrument,saidthatevery wrora cost tbe suitor one shilling. It was literally true that every folioseet 11.. Every one of these sides must be furnished to the Britoiousjxparty, which, with the whole expense of exemplifications ans copiebs amounted. tsr a considerable grievsance, and -was a very common:subject of' eenplaint. If the honourable member for MiEdburst thu5ht it ivisable to intrioduce a -motion for the reduction oft tamp duties, let him proceed boldly, not dreaj that- be woulj- be -.left in a feeble minority. The cornplaint of thie -cha3ges ith the tRe gitm's office had -sometimes been 1e y n assertion thit theirs high amount was caused by the stbp di3sL. hle isd,howe,er, beeeslnformed4and he-believed-his bf:nrsastioer~rece,1ls t *hexbarge~fssftprlioedingssin the Re. .~rtaoffiectaW# tig5Wa t1mU5ti me5 2fJne idmsttlthc p dutice; Aceyws vly4.r p-*sek ii.)abwe bup .p ~otsty) Very mauch doubted,ramenle the inability of the LorA. - -L*cIieZ tO Perform all the functons of Isis office as-they -had beeke 1vlre eesfofne by hi rdeccstor.. 'The zigbt hon. sent. had ~&5e ~ nttyof fact' with 3p;.ct.to the itpcreae of bu&iriess in a~ COt fCane ry and front those facts he drew the -onclusion ~O.15e3thehadjut alued. and which must either have beem tug. ~tedo hitt y otersor hive presented itse,f to hIS own mlind. ~'5 ?t? pinrponwhich the right hon. gene. had dwelled was, the raceasog usiessin the lunacy department. He would now re- Pes wht e hd-stated lrat sess'on, which had remaihed uncon- ~t~dcte becuseit was incapable of receiving contradiction, ~5ralv hatcerewas no kidnd of business which devolved upon the .~hancellorwhich, with few exceptions, occupied so 1Ittleof his Iess mztter of lunacy. The most important point fo which a corn.. ~~5C5of inquiry wuhla direct its attention, would be to ascertain ~btbad been the effiects of the institution of the Vice.Vharncellor's t.or.It was highlvdesirable toknow what bad beent theoperation of 2thatineasure He'caledup>on ministers to consider thewhole busi-~ aSOftcircatcer7i detail..to see how much was doneintheCourtof Chantcery' howtm-,uci in the Vitce-Chancellor's Court, and how much 'by 'the Etlaster cf-IRMIS) and then to declare whether there was any I Curd for sas ghbat-the. Lord Chancellor was unable.to perform It.e duties of his TO~ci~they had been performed heretOfore. He tail alWays considpred tlhat the Vice-Chancellor's Court would form ~ ~Ot iasporAn object of" inqiry, and he had talken the pans to ~ ascrtri~the pesentstate of busireag in that court. He wishedth l~OL5C o har n mnd that ho original cause was ret dowrn for hear- ragbe!r~ he ordCha-ncellor.-.he heard only castes of appeal. in cOusderngUe sateof the business before'the Lord Chancellor, theaunberofbilswas, a circumstance of little importance, because the auss ha u,inaly been disposed of by the Vice-Chancellor and he astr ot eRols. With respect to the. Master of the ~nll, heever hewa coinp-elled to saty, that that judge bad not shin ranh ineedhe might. cal on his lion.- and leamned friends op. IPMto to state whether tb e~ bud e ver knownm in modaern timrnes a 1IlIas - 't=- Of the Rolls w~ho bad given so little assistance to the business of thO Cou= of Chancery as the present Master ? The fact of the' Nrice Chancellor hearing all the original causes wvas an unan. swerbleargmentserins th cocusion to which thie ho- ~Onrblegentema hadcom wit repect to the inability of thei i~tdChacelor o excut th duiesof his office as they had been ~sefbced y frme Lod Cancllos.He would now inform the nOos wh wa th prsen stte f bsiness in the Vice-Chancel. -urrers had been heard up to latI ilar em Thoiiachese se down in la.ss Eas-ter Term weenwiacusofhrngFrtr ,exceptions and directions had been dispos-d of up to theln aa SI-an. The banikrupt petitions had been heard up to tesm e rLed; andi, aocording to the average rate of proceedn,s a Iikelvy that before th'e end of the present sittings, the woeo h eanves filied in, Easter term, and probably thos6 filed in Trinity *..m. would be dispoed of. The righit honourable gentleman had s-tated that there was a great increase of bankrupt cases ; but he had Omitted to add, that. a large proportion of them were heard by the .ic.CbOlarcellor : and further, that the hearing bankrupt Petitions a salldecee,impede the Ordinary business of the court, se they were heard at the end of the sittings, and only pro. ttacr-ed the labouts of the judage for a few days. The Vice. Chancellor was now dloing stll the business which the L,ord. Chancellor used to do. WVhen the Vice-Chancellor's Court bMl was before thec house, one of the great objections to it vMas, tthat after the establishmsent of the court every cause would be beard twrice by way of appe-al, and that a great additional expense and hardshiD' woul'd thereby, be incuirred by the suitors. That was an obvious arcument, and one which it was difficult to answer.. It woDuld, therefore reasonahly' be supposed that every, difficuilty con aisterrt 'wirh t-he due admintistrtion of justice would have been thrown in the way of persons wishine: to enxter appeuls froth!I tse decixiens of the Vire.Chanicellor. The contrary, however, was the tac t.i was trute that when a tlecere was pronouinced by, the Vice.Chanicellor in a cause, it was required, that before an appeal fro-m his de6cision could be heard, an dpinion in favour of'such a pro. Feedinx should be sgiged by two counsel. The object of that proceed. eng was to guard suitors against entering appeals which wvere notI Mtly), toq be attended with suczess, sst\ -woUld es-dy canse additional cur;:unnecesary expense. But inan important partofthe business in Ch--a c-ryamely,mo0tions-.the Lord Chancellorbad dispensed with nil securitv against Unnecessary appeals ; and parties who had been dae.cateds iaa motion in the V-ice-Chancellor's Court, were permitted to berr into the- C-ourt of Chaucer- and re-debate thie question be- fbeisLordship. There was anodifir circumstance of extremne irm- yotaV;cewitbh respectio appeals,towhich he couldinot help advettin. It wTuld have been suppos.ed, that if asyvpriniciple of equity shoul beht M more sacred thaxn another, it ought to be this-that no appeal "ahoul be heard before a sueror tribunal, except on the ass-ne grounds on which it had been argued before the inferitr tribunal. But how did the case stand ? Parties bho had been unsuccessful in their motions upon affidavit before the Tisca4barieellor, finding the wreak parts of their case, were in the haibit of preparing fresh 'affidavits, and, coing before the Lord Cha:Icellor with an amended case, they frequently obtained froin him a ctntrarv decision to thiat whichl hadl been givecn in the ietferior c-.The efFect of such proceedings was extremely injurious to the TZeParation of the Vice-Chancellor, whiose judgment was supposedI to 1*e' Ogoppsiti-n to that of the Lord Chiancellor ; whereas thle two JuEges hadadecided upon diiferent cases. The same want of security -against utsccexsars.appeals which was so justly complainetilof incases of Siot-ns., also ecusted wit.h regard to bankrupt petitions. Tue in. -creed faLcility which was given so appeals operatedI to the injury of ,=xOrs, the delay of business;, and to the pre-judice of the inferior JU&ge. (Hear.) The right hion. gentleman said that the propriety Of'sn inPquiry into the delays in the Courtof Chancery hiad f'requtently born the sufiject of discussion in the Hiou.e of Commioins, anid that thet etablisment of the Vice-Chancellor's Court was one of the ex- e,edeznts which had been adopted for the purpose of remedying the SCda,Y complained -of. The right hon. gentlem-an was quite wvrong o= that point. The Vice-Chiancellor's Court was not e-stab lished ew ayvc to the state of business in the Court of Chancer, but ,D:lv ntha vewto the state of bussiness in the House of sI. Miat VWasdist-ipctly stated in the preamble of the Vice-Chancellor's (ourt bilL Vitlh respect to the propriety of an inquiry taking Place into the proceeding-, of the Couirt of Chancery, he thought that re mnan could entertain a doubt otter reading the bill of coats which haId braurproduced I~Vni1 i lt lhit'TiI- e would be c(entert t~o rest the question, upon that document alone. The test by whlich be would propose to try the con- duct Of the Lord Chanicellor in his judicial capacity would be by hatta a scUeeuent drawn up) of the time when the difierent appeals ,were made;, when thecy were put into his lordship's paper; how 11any times thev had aspeared thtere ; when juidgmrent was obtained upon them:- and what cots were incurred. (Hear.) The bill of costs which his hon. and learned friend had produced spoke for it. self. Nothing could miore clearly diemonstrate the imperfections of the present system than that bill, every item of whiceh hiad been al- 2owed by the Mtaster. Hie -ouldinow onl vtroubletshebousewitha few bbservati-ons with respect to the commis `sic4n which it seemed wgas to be appointed. The whole merit of that commission would depend on its coenipsitico (hears, and on the intent and object of those who ap- pointed it. (Hear.) It miight, perhaps, be the effect of those habits whiich were acquiired by every person who took a pact in the debates In' thnt hou`se, but be must confess that hie dlid not place mnuch eonfider,ce in the proposed commission. (Hear, hear.) There was not a singe fact which his honourable friend had siarce which could he considered as a discovery. Every thing which lie bad stated hadl long been perfectly notorious; to every person who oracrised in the C-ourt of Chancery,: and if it were known to Tho-se'-ho-practised in the court, how much batter must it have bten 'knron tothle individua,lwho pre-sided there. (H4ear.) The present Loard Chancellor had now been in office during 22 years, 'and it was no-, in ll124.in the second year of the mnotioni for inquiry, thiat a aimnission was to be appoinited for that purpose-. Those wecre circumnstances which he could not dismiss from Iiis ennd- All the honourable gentlemen opsposite, who took a Tart in the debase on his bonourable friend's motion last session, treated the question as if it wer e a ersonal aittackz. Pe c-ould no(t help thinkin,5 that a feling of trlat kind would be ntt ingredient in th copstion of the commission, It was consistent with hunsan natur htit should be so. It was impossible that the Lord Chan- cellor could divest himself ofsuth a t;eeling, atnd he didI not flind fauilt w-ish him for not being able to do so. But it should be recollected that it -a by his lordship's advice that the commission was to be' aPPOinted, a%nd it would, in all probability, be by hliml that therme-mbers woulJd ben.amed. (Hear.) fle (Mr. Abercromhvby would InOt trust his dearest friend wish such) a power, if lie stood in thle Lord Chan-cello;r's stuationi. He woiuld ayto lum, " yuu are th-e lat an ho-ught to 'nave any share in'the appointmenit of thsmeper-ons." (Rlear, hear.) It was impossibl o placeany con. fidmenin I coMMmuna.aj0which should be so appointed. It wastuybsurd to suppose that a Person, connected so dleeply as the Lord Chancellor ,was wish the question, could be a person quialified to nominate the mnembers Of the commission. The public would not believe that thie object of a commission so appointed was to promote their beCsefl, so mnuch as to defend the Lord Chancellor against any -'se &t haad been, or 'was Ilikely so be, made againist him.-.. Wr. LOUKHA'RT suggested to the hon. 1n1embter for Lincoln, that it would be advisable to) withdraw the motion for the ap- pointment o a co 0mmittee Such a proceeding would nor preclude 'be- housle forom again considerinig the question at a future erod, if it shorld he thougnt prope so todo. He thought it wouldI Eblil - rto et he or-C'ancellor have the nomihasion -of the -Mr. BROL'GRJAl wished to state the reasons why- he was dis-. POsd- t-o appIrOve of' the withdrawing of the motion. If be thought that by-that step the house would part with that most constito. tional mode of inqu-irY into abuses of the description of those which ?tad bee'n brought under its notice-he mneant the exercise of the in- SOrIsIt"ril fuZnction of that house-he would not only express his es rPObation of else withdrawing of the motion, bust would feel It Iuttodivide the house on the question, lBnt that was not the case; the house would not lose its control over thesujcwhh ha enboght before it by meeting the question in the way which hash ben suggested. Lie rnol j.v congratulated his bon. and learn. ed friend the mnember for Ltncoln on account of the distinguished talents which he 'had disulayed, surpassing, if possible, those which he had exhibited on the samne occasion last year, but lie also congra.. CnaWe-4 the country on the greas uractical benefits which had already zS11e fi-om the hon. Membe,'s exertions in the great cause whichi he had underta'ken. That the Projc' fa. omatnha ugse itsel so he Lrd Chancell' mind,tan to him, he wanind.nndbad not bee propounde That ij ~ IIQt ubelieve, btEause it hiad bee'n a'ss-er-t-ed. ave Sutgested itself to his lordship's mind, but for eznd tinsepeadently of the e-xertions of his hon. and learned friend, was anot~nm rPsti, the affirmative of which he had not heard anc rho negative of which ie most entirely and firsmly be- ,ed. (depen That the idea never wvould have entered into ihis -ene hip'aons eration but for his hon. and learited friend's raotion last ya, he believed thateverv mran in the house must be htisfled ,of. (-No.") Nay, more ; he believed that itsnever would- have en- tcrttd thc cons templation had it not been for the,notice of thc- prlesentm od Wihrestttlnota te otesf a pr ont allmotion. W cithyet tothise mode of in ofiir which was to jre adoo-ted, he personally had no cause to cosisplamn, because iz wa the same aisich he had prposedl asit year with re- cpectto the Scotch conurts. (Hear.) Every thinkg, however, w,uld depend on the constituation of the ommissinon. Thot- the vorinmission should he recommendled by -the Lord Chancellpr, was mre thuing; buzt that his lordship should .take upon himself s,he rc. hr thc tiliay of naming the individuals who were to be chiarged 'sth the functions of inquiring into hi conduct, really appeare to bea.circanstnceall ut incrdible. (Hear,b ho r.) h T at the iord Clsaa?wlor.who w hesitated about all other matters (a heugh). -who on all other occasions exhibited sn, much of 'that indeci. 5ie which his friends charged him with in extenuation of other - uhatgrs of a graver nature-sbosild, without any doutbtings, fp ter. ings, or indecasito whatever, snalke up his mind at os~e to - tatie on ls-iinsde else task of nominating thsejutdges who werc- to in(11urerinto. _jis judiciay cohdutct, was onne-of the -most remarkable inktances of -wzo~,d inconsistetncy -wlthigh- had- ever -coine- witlin his (M1r.: ZD-l=jjna5s) knowledge. - Ile fiSiist siyjofr big: prtI tha"t it, the, ucnitoswere to,bie znbmninatdjifi' the -nianttr Zwibit he--p -csc-it would, be frm1What h-AdlsMlefro4ntiitsable jletiaa ~~ssjt h~s b~e-pfk behftiir Is' ticrs-ont' oAe,Whiduie~woul~mAttos'etMlgttvo the nenrmoussamount ofthep o6-di~:ng ,ithese offices; It watixt a cause of Itl Chinnedy and Chinnery,"1 whire the 'widow -of one of the partlees was his adiznstratrik, Zid was admitted by al- the par- tieS oDncqried tubie esititleA toa sum of 45l.. Thias um,.a1thoilgii the caus", as related to hee, -wag entirely at uhii nd, she coutld hot, dare: not receive; she was-advised by hsr solititor not to receive it. -be4- caus~e the ex~enses which must attend her procuring an order r'ot It wouldc exreeu its.total atmount. .And yet, 'with the knowledge of fsuch facts as these, they were told that there was no. grief, nospffer-, log,no.ela inthisCout. e dd nt, however, upon this any', moretha upo th othr tpicsprnoune any opinion: he only subnftedtha i prvedth neesityofan inquiry. The neiEt sub- jecthe houd pocee towaswha ocurred upon a report. from the Maser' ofict Whn adesee ad eenprononxncedby-the, ourt that an Recount should be tae,teobject -of it was that, the Mlaster -should iinform the Courtoth exact state of the ro- th.uber o th sit,ant paticlaly when it.halppened to ~abcped t a prty dcease. Whtithe Court wanted was thi acurae acolit no a tatmet of all the proceedings that migt b taen n te Mste's ffie.Butt instead of such an. ac- coun, h wascreiblyInfrmedrhathereport contained, not galy wha wa th toal mout o th deeaed's property, but a volumi- nous schedule made out by- the executor, beginning with the moat va- luable part of the property, and proceeding with a miost absurd mi- nuteess don een t a airof lipers. This schedule was fr-e- quenly f enrmos buk; t wa reuired to be swom to, and the expnseof he epot, nceasd b ths mans ofenamounted to ten,twety, hiry, ad een fftypouns. The nlyobject of this multpliatio ofstatmens, ttaly imateial ndxrzelevant, was to vx ad deay,and urdn th sutors. I-e wished not at this moment to express any opinion either upo this practice. He hadpo nio doubt the Alasters might fiind it convenient mode of dis- charging the duty imposed uponi them by the court, and they would continue to' do so until the house or the country should thinik fit to interfere. To expect any reformnation in this ,and similar practices, they must begin with the court itself. To suppose that it wrould be effected without any such interference, wouald be a theor-y more vain than that notable folly of the hair-brained knight who fancied that Ihis 'squire wouild scourge himself to death as soon as his back was turned. The country muit -wait till he knew not what time, if they waited uxitil a -reform in the practice of the court should be begun by the Court of Chancery itself. The next inconvenience to which he wished to call the attention of the house, was the time which had been wasted inA the Alaster's office. He did not state this -without authority in black and white, because he knew well the disadvanta- geous copnsequences which must attend a contradiction here, (what- ever effect it might have elsewhere), if any such could be given. It seethat tn warrants grated by the Alasters in Chancery were soehtsriar to the judges' summnonses at law. It was the practirce of the MVaster's office to issue four cof these summonses for every hour. It often happened that thefe were four or five solicitors concerned for the various parties in the causes in which these warrants were issuied and if they all attended, the jostle aind bustle which ensued, and the wordy warfare which sose- times was on the point of assuming u more practical s-hape, from those who were quarrelling for the pre-audience, rendered the riime allotted to the business of the warrant inadequate for disposing of it. Thus, though the attendancee upon these warrants was often totally unprofitable for theeclient, it wns not so for the solicitors, who never failed to charge as they were entitled for their attendances. When he spoke of the profit of the solicitors, he wished, for the sake of that respectable body of men, to be understood that he did not suppose thiey had any interest in preventing the correction of the abuses of which. he comnplained. Evlery mani knew that tliev were calletdupon to mke vry envyadvacesin te erliest stages of the causes, for offcecopesof hesevra prcedins,and fees to counsel. The loner,theefoe, he eciionof hecauses was _protracted, the loner he woldbe ep ou o thirmoney. 'This must be thecaue' t' ne f to ting-ether it must be supposed tha th soiciorswer coten wih te peasreof working ibr nothing, or that they made themsele aedfothe postpone. meat, by charging to their elients more thantesrc rules of the COUrt would permit. If it could be supposed that they were so scru- pulously, so romantically honest, beyond all belief-even this was no reason why they should be thought anxious to support thiigsays. tem of delay; aind, t'or his own part, he thouight it just and necessary to explain, that it was by no means his intention to impuite to the solicitors of the court any sinister incelination to favour that system. Having thu teted some of the detaLil;, he should proceed to the leadiung 'subjects, and those of a more genieral nature, which, the fuirther they were investigated, would prove still more the necessity of an inquiry into and a remedy for them. "1Not," to use the words atf the late laraented Sir Samuel Rormilly, " a re- medy at the Suggestion of official persons) anid the friends of the mi- nisters, as in the case of the appoiniment of the Vice-Chancellor ; but a remedy to be prescribed by the universal opinion of all men, and atn inquiry at which the information of all whto were able to af- forti it, in every branch of the profession, sheuld bea broughit to bear upon thie question." Hie now came to a subject, the very namne of which was truly ominous-shie Dead Fuaid. This, it seemned, con- sisted of 1,200,0001. it was true that what had hitherto been done with respect,to this fund had been done under the sanction of an art of Parliament ; and althouigh it could not therefore be now un- done, there was no reason wh i mgt not be more justly treated in fuiture, Ile understood thelclaimnants were in many instances ready to came forward. It was not like the uticlaimed dividenda at the Bank, where persons in possesion of stock died without hiaving communicated that fact to any of their friends, and it was therefore ipsible to find out the persns really entitled to the property. In th ae of the Dead Fund, the claimnants generally knew ver~y well what they were entitled to ; but as, in the case of Chinnery, they vwere so traversed and thwarted by the delays and. expense of the Court of Chancery, that they relincnuished in despair the attempt of peferring their claims, awve by thjT difficulty of establishing thiem.. This,' then, it wouldl not be denied, desrved the mast deliberate con- Isideration-whether it would noz be expedient ro'adopt some mnode by which relief might be given to these claimants. It was a duty which the Government. owed almost to common honesty, that a public notice should' be given to 'the claimants that they muight know what remaineLd to be divided among themu. Again, on the subject of the proceedings in bankruptcy. Numerous sepresen- tations had beten mnade with respect to separating his'jdihfdictiorn in this respect from the L-ord Chancellor's duty. There wasa this rea- son for it among others-that it was of comparatively modern origitn. He knew it had been stared by that lamented individual to whom he had before aUluded (Sir Slamuel Romifly), that it had commenced with Lord Hardwicke. It was true the statute upon whichi the inter- ference or'thelord Chancellor in matters of banikruptcy was founded passed in the reign of Henry Vill., and its powers extended by a statute of Queen Elizabeth ; but it appeircd that no Chancellor had ever exercised the power given by those statutes until the time of Lord Chancellor Nottinghamn. From the latter period, dLurinjr the offices of three Chancellors, there were nor 20 instances of any inter- fe~rence up to the time when Lord Hardwiclte became Chancellor. The sitature of Gcorge II. was then passed ; the practice began, and had been continued- until it had reached its present marvellous extent. It', therefore, it were true, as had been so often stated when complaints were made of the delay of the proceedings in Chancery, that the Court was too much loaded with busines, and overdone, how necessary was it that an inquiry should be made without los's of time into the expediency of severing this jurisdiction from the other powers of the Chancellor ? He now came to the subject of thieap peals in Chancery. By the theory of the constitution, every Indi- vidual of the House of Lords, whiere these appalIwr made, was supposed to possiessi a sufficient portion oflgal kniowledge, as to make Iiim a competent judge of the matters which the case appealed against contained. 't'hat this was a fiction of the coDarsest,de- scription, could not be denied ; and, like every other fiction of this descrptio thefarter i deprtedfrom theruth, unless the risult answreddiepurosefor hic itwasinvnted, the more flagrant wastheabsrdiy wichit resed.As heLord Chancellor was, geneall spakin, te mst larnd lw lord tn the house of peers. as ellas ne f te mst ncint ndweighrty, the appeal was, in truth, to the C-hancellor there, againt a decision plronouniced by, the Lord Chancellor in some other place. (Hiear, hear.) His learned friend had talked of this system being an appeal fromn Ciear to Coesar, or it waa, if he would allow him to change the expres- sion, an appeal from Philip to Philip. Now, in the appeal from Philip drunk to Philip sober, there was somne reason, because that inonarch, although he was when drunk remarirablIs for the mnost brutal cruelty and rage, was, when sober, an example of wisdom and moderation. But if the appeal had been fromn Philip sober to Philip sober, it would then have been a marvellous absturdity. VVith respect to the operation of the system, it had been more correctly descibe byno ne tan y te rghthon. gentlematn (Mlr. CaD- Chancellr wra apointed, there were 14cue 04th ae;i downbefre he ordChacelor.So hatlirtlegood seem ohv been done in' the way of despatch byJ the exertions of the last mnen- tioned officer. If thiis, too, were te pro.portion of causes it miht reasonably be asked, why the intermediate apelcudntb spared, and the causes at once carried to the Hous fLrs 'o this point, also, he repieated what he said beforehdinowsho express his own opinion, but he urged it uponthhosasnadi tional reason to those which he had before slated fr the deliberation -andJnquir.y-whcbise thrrpglt,was,;emanded._Anojhe point which he would mention was the expedfencTiifliiparatmg tli"elo-`iM an cellor's political from his judicial character. In the first place, it was higuly injurious 'to the public, that when that noble aknd Iorned judge for the time beinig fad before him the consideration of all the interests of the com~munity, as a judge, he should be called away at any hour, however inconvenient, to assist as the public councils, and decide upoa the intesests, of the people in gross.. Interrupted titus, as under the existing system every Chanceellor must be, in the mitlit of anargument, let his attention and his memory be what they might, forgetfulnes must ensue ; andl not only time would be lost, but per- haps the interests of the suitors might be still more seriously injured whenever the judge should come back again to resume the argniat which had been interrupted by the purguit of avocations, anid the con- sidraton f sbjets,so ntielydiferet.But this objection Iav uponthesurace hewoul godeeer,andwotuld ask if that ui- measred aneyricwhic ha bee betowed Upon a certain p rt of the onsituionweredesrve ho itcould be denied that the p- litial nd udical harcterof~theLordChacelor ught.to be m mediately separated? It had beea -often saidi that'the effect- ing the independence of the judges -as. the consummation of human wisdom. Now if this were so, and he did not dtay it for what reason; Ile asied, was it that a principle which abpQied to all the other judges, should not be made al -to apply to the fir&-, judge of the lan9d ? For what reason should not the stme carefu[ protection which had been extended to 'preserve the, inde- pendence and reputation of other judges, reach atso to that judge who, as he thought unfitly, continued to unite with the chariacter of. a judge, other duties which were not compatible 'with ft. Let, haw- ever, wiser men decide upon this point. He (r.31., Williams) orstl suggested the matters which he thought called for deliberationantd inquiry; andthat these vrere absolutely necessary, was all ttthe had undertaken to say. {le was now about to bring to a 'dse the observations with which be had troubled tbe hous. BebHa endea- voured to,avoid, as much as possible the objectons which ,n a former occasion sad been urged against him. It was then said? orif not said, it was intimnated that he had drawn all his informaton 'from the same sourcte,-that his factsall came fromone single ofrice, or as, in compliment. to his honourable friend's Latinity, he would Callit, officina. Now,he could assure the house and'hii leatned friend, not only that he. had noine from that offic-, but that he had no two from the same -office. When, on-a forner occa. sion, lhe lf4d thought fit. to mention the name.of that nobles gnX learned lordT who for the last quarierof a centuryhsd ruled over the law, and (as his hon.friend, tbememberfor Winchelea said,aud was buttfeebly contradicted)overthe countrytoo, withlj'ad, litmet witi a very strange reception. 'On the one handi it wia 6onijendd,.mhat heneednot havtgone-:ttiuichlength iato detaiV i'Uon 'he, ot4er itwas saids whenever hie bort tesltfimni'4TT,e. siWlept:iLnt:la-ring oftliat nob and le ?nedloid, thitIt wwswlgit l', ititen- tibe P"t-n;t e' s1r-he:w. el # 1 ' tEl iot 2 Fii3iti* :i -pref#-inoriiiiui; bAtalna *6ro aing, n uh, comnplifibUeni'Xa 6rUsf ia'ol and learned1 loilt,'- hler'yhti w Iicdaalaeesy;nor did he in: -ted--us 'o- soi tsr,I;irrfr,'h sm Sort of dex-1 ter6us: adi6siis Idwai elye f~uo i by some holioutilegentlen , twoIiorhv-he eit of 'novelty nor tshe ekcuse-o aen of4~ lottfc. bsara e bad been able'to uudrtndteb&ig Of thi qusin, he could not tindeistand wht obetoncId ijoslyeitt fbd the inquiry which h ikdf. ntefstpa,soaIehesup- pition-that. thliiiqirwihtecutyws ettedt ate, and whirli it woi-djliad a engatd n htuo such =nur t.bad beentudta h ncinr ftesse fthe CortofUancei ~ aserct-b hatthagnywsaly then the moat saifcoy-ocuo wudhv enarvdat, for it wotuld be)tuhe ir o hnethe snen-than to alter the sys- tem. Butif, on theco say shoal appearthatthe machineryslone was imperfidt' 'then anote inquiry mRust be proceeded in as to the czuses o?tbat imoperfecon and, these discovered, then all the wisdm o th leislauremus b'directed to the task of pro- vidig aremdy or hem If thn, t should be foutnd, that al- thogh he mpefecion wee kowntoexist it was impracticable to ppoac tem o ealy s o ate tem, then every man woulil hav a easnabe ad slidcau~ fr ptiece, asid mu;st bear as well as e culd th evlsforwhih ro rmey could be prescribed. If, on the, other hand this sthould be denied, anid an attempt should be made to shut out all inquiry, solely for the purpose of scre'ening the Chancellor, he woiisd gain notbinghby such an attempt in the esti- mation of the country, and the houtse would lose in it infinitely. (Hear, fiear.) But allowing that the huible and learned lord was well entitled, and for aught hie (Mlr. WVilliams) knew, he might he well entitled to all the encomiums they had so plentifually bestowed upon him on -former occasiornlfhe would beg them to permit him to put.one question to them..- Ii -under the management of a man so perfectly wise as the noble and learned lord was represented to be, such bitter fruits of delay and expense had been produced, 'what must the sysitem be thatt had borne them ? Let him ask.them also to consider in what a luck-less condition would the people of England bez, if, iwithout any amielioration, thlis system should be handed over,-at gomerztmote period to a Chancellor of in- ferior talents and virtue, since all inen could not be the best? It would lbe seen that the more the~ present agents were extolled, the more the system would be depresed; and this consideration fur-. nished the best, ground for- inquiry-this was the foundation *of -his miotion. l'When he had brouight forward this motion last year, he haLd been told, -afting other things, thea it was at too late a period of the session ; h& had remedied this fault now, by bringing it forward thut icar.ly,i and that, too, at a time which was more particularly convesifielt for its discussion, on account of thte ab- sence of all pressure of 'tiher Ikublic afiaeis. Not that he mneant to say this subject ought, rof Its iinportance, to yield to say other, but that as the chief busines or gintlerpen since the commencement of the session hiad been to constsnplate each other, there could be tio reaso why this question'ottght not now to be entered on. The people of England evelywhere thought, and did not fall to express that opinion, that they had a rig-ht to call for an in- quiry uipon this topic. WVould any hornourable g,entleman who had* constituents deemi it eipedient to gainsay this -right ? The labours of that house, to which the people were entitled, could not be better spent thatn irtsucm -in inquiry. tie was not, however sanguine enough to think, that because so many, and suchi powerful reasons existed for it, it woula therefore be entered upyon; but he knew that if this was not the dry on whilch the inquiiry weuld be obtained, that it was not very far (listant; andl he had no doubt that if the 'ouse now refused it, they would be compelled ere long to grant it. ne was perfectly aware how inverate were the habits, how robust the pr4udices agais-t which this motion had to contend. He knew too well how often and~iy wha'sort of men this attempt hid been made before, and had failed, to suppose tlhat he should now succeedl to the extent to which it was entitled. He bore in mnind, thaLt the most powerful aind resolute man this country ever pro- duc,W-he could mean no other than the protector,Oliver Cromwell, who, it wAs said in Whitlocke's 1Memorhai, caused a petitioui to be presenited to the Parliament~ praying "1 that speedy- cotisitgeration might be hiad of the great opLiressions by reason of the multiplicity of unnecessary lHwsi, with their' intricacies and delays, which ten,d to the profit of some particular maen, but much to the expense and da- mage of the whole." Ana yet this attempt, made by thisk main when he ras at the zenith and in the plenitude of his dominion,and in days when lawyers were fewer, andl Lord Chancellors not so powerful, was made in vain. He referred his failure, as he (Mr. Williams) a inclined to think, not to any defect in the-gounds upon whichwahe ppoed it, hut to the chiaracter anid quality of the resist.ance Pwh'ich was made to it. He mighit suippose him to have said, "1I haye met my king in the field, and have conquered him; the church I have new modelled and cast at my pleasure; the people I have kept down, and still hold in subjection * and yet these -lawyers."-Cromwell did' not perhap use the epthet which hemeant to havebestosiyp on thiem, becauise h~e was too great a hypocrite to swear-,, these lawyers can baffle me; against them almy, attempts are abortive, and by them alone 1 am defeated." The honourable member then, thanking the house for the patience with whichi they had heartl him concluded by mov- ing "1For a committee to inquire into the d-lay ad expens-e of the Court of Chance-ry, and the cuses thereof" (Lud and continuted cheering followed the conelusion of' this speecht.) M1r. PEEL, in commencing the obserrations which he was about to address to the house, professed his total incomipetence to follow the hon. gentleman who lied just sat down, into the details which he had given, and into which-indeed none but a professional man could be qualified to enter. He should theref'ore leave it to hit, hen. and learned friendsi on tletreglt and left to undertake that task, if they thought fit ; or if, inde- , they were prepared to reply to cases of which. whether they had any previous knwledge he knew not. In his (Mlr. Peel's)t view, however, the entra;nce inito such details was not necessary,7 (HIetis- 11om the.9-osition. benches, re-echoed from those oftfith Ministerial side of the house.) At least, if it were neces~sary, Is it p ar to hint that some pTevious intimation ___l.bvbi4 11r ~le ditails in order that'thie house Mright ha-re bean ena'' =t&conie'ft a comnpetent judgment on them, and that complete jastice might he done. (Bear, hear, from the oppo. sto.)His T"Ason for following in the debate now was, that as the subject had occupied the attention of his Islaesty's Go- vernment for a considerable period, the house might be in pseso of the view which they had entertaied of it. (The chers er noow reppeated). Ile could assure the noble lord who had interrupted the debatt in' so irregular a manner, (we could not learn to whom it was that the honourable meimber alluided), that he would not revnt hm fom dlivrin~hisopiions. onthis subject. (Cheers.) Proessng,tlirefre nenteitin ttochiupon the details, he should proced iththegeneal iscssin. e gave the honourable and learie~en m an(Mr Wiliam) geatcredit for the moderation andabiitywih wichhehadintodced his motion; but when the onorabe ad. eamd gntlmansaid, that this hodse had upon orme occsiosdenie texienefaydlyinthe Court of (Thncry,e hir.Pel mst ayththeha nverherdany such de- peaedl clle toths sbjet,andit adbeen repeatedly admitted thatsomeremdy ws neessry. henthe Vice-Chancellor's billwasundr te cnsieraionof he ouse, was not there heard the same complaint of-dea in the proceedings of Chancery thatiwas now made? So, gain,twhen the Appelate Jurisdiction was under the deliberatioin o'f arliament, was it ever denied that there were in- dividual cases of great hardship erisingz from the delays of Chancery ? Hea.'fe for one, was not confident enough to stand up a~nd Zytbfactfthdelay. (Hear.) He admitted that to the coin.. plaints that were heard the answer must be explicitly, thaLt the delay was rea. Tothequestion put by the lhon, and learned gent. or, o- site threfoe, e ws no bod enughto ive such a reply as tat hon.andleanedgen. semedto xpet~Re the rather made this admssin, ecase ewspreare tocontend and to prove that suchdely ws nt t beim tedto any body as matter of ciinnatoss Hecoud guceor t other causes, which would demionstrate to hon. gentlemen, ifte would give himn their atten- tion hut for a very short time, that tedelay was to be attributed to an increase of business in the Couirt of Chancery, with whichi, under present circumstances, no intellectual and no physical streu$th could entirely cope. (Hear, hear, from- tho opposition.) Having admnitted the delay, and betng, Indeed, quite unable to deny it, his next object wrould be to prove that the cause to which it was to beI traced was the enormous increase of businessi, of which he spoke. If any body would compare the amount of business in the COUrt of Caucry t tis period with its amount of business 60 or 70 yeas ao, e wuldfind (without uny very minute information uponthe n~rtr)tate priori, thep resumption must he that the busiessf te Curthadimmoderately increased. In truthi, it was imposibl th POPh pouato f the kingdom should have increased in herato'it addoe,tht it should have about doubled since l76~, *shou 'cusig -avast addition to the business of Chati- cary - Culdsny 9dy Aeny that that addition was mnainly owin tos6 licre .0o population?F Let the house Icok. also at- the incrgeas- wIi*h1 h4*i ta'ken place in the same interval of time infedea '-oery for example, (a species of property that, be-wss-infoZsnr1pec$iarly induced an augmenadaton of the business 'of Chancerj,) they wouldl find it to be in proportion to the increased population;4;'Z w, from the peculi .r nature of suits ~~eh~peert~-origirna? 4rmnorte4-anyorsui?s- =tha oropwerty 1btl-s k.,-aeaI. Undoubtedlyf, then, the fair pre- supton wa, that l2lci the time of Lord Hardwicke, sixty or seventy years - sinae, the popuation of the empire hadt so increased -as of necessity to increase the business of Chan- 'cer. e h hause:observe how that presumption was fortified ad-confirimed [by-sm details that hea would very briefly ~tsmittothe; nd~eeig hatth ho. nd leaned genatleman (ilr. . Wllims)hedd,lt o mch nd o frcbly on the im- orsace f'fgurs ad. acts whn h caledtheattention of the fioue t thse etai~ Ito hic heso- largely entered, and by which e excied muc merrient inthe house-, he (Mr. Fel) hoped th .s-honoarable gentlemen would show so niiich fairness to him,- in his turn, as to listen attentively to a 'few facts, by which lie proposedI to established the position he hpA asimutd. - And, first, he would take " an account of the Or4era made :upon hearing lunatic petitions," during three asart eros ~ hudb bserved, that he proposed to take biii data. from documents that were already laid beflire the hous. WThey ierc apaded to the reports mad& by a committee, appointedbytheirhous4forthe pnrposeofinquiringintoDthesematters. It. Wsu Yry well know; that a highly important part of the businees 'f Chaneery arose upon-rdiscussiona on lunatic petitions. Duing the JhsncelkcrshipofLord 1Rardwicke,from 1737 to 1746,thetotalnumber of otdrsimide upon lunaticpetltionswas 484. Iuringa simular in- terva'o ID years the numberof smilsr orders madeby Lord Eldon,. from the yexr 1341 io 1810, was 1,139, being an increase of more tban'double as contrastd with the firt of these periods; for it was inth? proj,o*tion of nearly I 20 to 500. Butin the 18 years elaps- Oi bIntwee 1814 and 1f23 the bumber of orders upon lunatic peti- lions bv dLoidEldon lruo less than 2,531 ;so that the preent Lord Chanclorl had- 4te fis', times the numaber of orders that Lord Har?e*icke had. mide jn 'a' oeomsponding term of year (Hear, hs4t.) odwjIt-w sto (rerllrked thathe(Mr. Peel) was not so mnuchins'tar.cing thbs 'a'ptoo,-of th'e quantity of btasineis to be traniac,ted ih the itirtf Chancery, as tn-the way of explanation of the dtely that hi beee'imputed. When the hon. annd leared-gen- lertnig mip&ted dlay tbe'proceedingaof Chancery, he had said, md*ed'thasthe isajit -attck upOn personal character. But he (Mlr. ieh.ias very sukethat the hon. member would' not deny tbat hii objeet ansliuig htthiittE'tin 'of tle lHouse-to the various papers ina~stte'nt6-th'hetha'd -rci& whs, thit the house mikht draw ihis-,inter 'anai tha,t bSh 'deLsy in question. was:atually iributiile tt lhia J l'i' 'noble and learnd frd n at the haad of ihas i";- h ind expressiOns of',}ent front Mlr. WlViaii'nsS' Tlie^-}ios. a*ad larned- geistlesnan ids "to be 'surc.ti'f"t gure"nsa8s iahi' r he (M., Peel) coultonlj 557 7e'felt thitor; patl5&r hin po!Xtmou thkth tbi usinesi of'the eidrtHhiideind0?mouz-txt*t.- "-A'ppeals ts 'the -Di 'erbl ast*d. stiotib, a.c' iA11i04ilt duty,1 Yeat frotflBOID to 1hl, t ete&awarU"f W.0'K-6th*ta umOof appeals from L 11o,18 0,apeidote az,.n equia61tthe numbers6ra Is1 hdiird in the whol -tweeni ye~ku.tlsat waspedrbdteed-.10a 770;-. Now,, aniother very beaybac ofdu wosroduea-by the numnberofcm ssoafbakut upon Zeissue of which it was for. the Lr hnelrt eewse 1ro 7I70 to 17.79,'ibe a-verage numbro-teecmisoso bankrupt was 709 in eich.yresr ; from 1790 to 1800, they inicreased to the numiber of 1,04)0 annually ; but durine the last twelve years they had augmnented tom2,000 per aninum;, that is to say, that corn- paring -the two periods, '1790 to 1800, 2ad 1810 to 1822, they head doubled during the latter : and thus another proof was fuirnished of the enormous incresse of business ins the Co-art of Chancery, and especially, of that which was to be performned bythe Lord Chancellor. (Hear.) But he now tumned to anotber head of business; and this was connected with" lthenumnberofbiilasfiled,concerningordersmade &C. andIt pperedtha thre wer fied,inthe years 1800, 1,445 ,ils ; i8202,0i; 8'23 2,27 " ths sowig, aain anincrease in 1823, as ompredwit th nube in800 ofnealy oube,in the 5um- herof ill fledin hacer. (ea.) notermos- important thig t beober4d a ths artof isstatement, and a matter to whih h crvedthemos srios atenionof hehouse, was the amount of property belonging to suitors lddinte office of the Accountant-General. In theyab 70 h oa amount of La- lances, in money, in stock,ndecrts,i the hands of the Accountant-General of the Cor fCacr,was 1,290,0001. In the year 1820, these depst aone rt h urn of 34,000,001. (Loud cries of "heahearer" Now, in-respec to the extraordinary increase in these sum ofmny, he. well knew it might possibly be argued that the very amon fmonies in the hands of the Accouint- ant General was onie efflect of the dela s of Chancery. (Cheers from the opposition.) He was aware that gs argumenkt mi lit be used by hon. gentlemen opposite, though it migh be vydifcult to ascer- tain what portion of such monies was accumulated by delay, and whIat was attributable to the growing wealth of the country. With a view to elticidate this subject, he would select different periods of 20 years each, and he should prove that it had been the tendenicy of events to double these sums in each successive period. BegirminF, then, with the year 1740;- it seemed tLhat in that year the amnount in the Accontant-general's hands was 1,290,0001. In the 20 years endfing 1700 It hod increased to 3,000,0001. In the next20 years, ending 1780, it had doubled and more than doubled what it was in 1780, for it was 7,000 0001. 7J'iw, for the increase of these sums during these periods, tii preset - Lord Chancellor was certainly not responsible. Bp,between 1780 and 1800, they were augmented from 7,000,0001. 01I7,000,0001. (Hear.) From 1800 to 1820, they increased to %4;000,0001. (Hear.) Now. surely he had brought conclusive proof' of the proposition that he ha~d been endeavouring to establish. -that, from whatever cause, ttie increase of business in the Court of Chan- cery, Of late years, was too great for humnan strength to cope with. Taigtefve criteria w~hich he had a9sume,_lunatic petition.s, orders, bills filed, apeaLs, anid banikrupt commissions, he thought. it impossible tobe denied that during the prsent chancellorship the bulsiness of Chancery had increase-dfour or five fold. WVhen delay, therefore, was imputed to the noble and learned lord who presided ove It th hose as oun injusicetohim, and on every principle de,ovedupo tht nole ordwit th quatit trnsatedby hisI clams pontheattntin ad tme f tatnoble and learned lord, and hatwasthe evee ntureof he anifold business tbat he had to p~rforro, he did hopeI that it would not be attributed to the feel- ings of private fiiendsbhip and respect that ht entertained for thiat noble lord, but that the house woul.d give him credit for a sincere and dispas3ionate declaration, wvhen bte protested that he was asto- rnisheti, not at the quantity of busineiss that was left undone by, his noble friend, but that humain ability anid strength could effect so much. (Chers from thie Treasury benches.) Let thenmonly coDn- sider this fact-that in the course of 10 years there were:presented to that learned lord, 2,000 banltruptey petitionis annually, and itI was really aknnoying to reflect upon the thoasands of commissions that he had to issue. li'hen a man considered the amount, extent, and importance of -the different matters that hadhbeen enuimerated, let bin, ask himself, how it was posible for any one individual to get through such a multip,licity of business ? But let hon. gentlemen look at the attendance of the liord Chancellor in the House of Lords. On this point he would: cite two cases only, the Berkeley and the Roxburghe peerages. What was the nature of this noble lord's attendance in the 7ferrel'ey case ? The Commn-ittee of Privileges -in the House of Lords sata, in one year, upon the Berkeley case for some timie, antifrom 10o'clock till 4ev,ery day. The number oftdays upont which, itri.that single ease, the noble and learnied Lord was called on toattend wasX3.(Hear.) The Roxburghe case re~quired of the same noble individual 56 days' attendance for the hearing the appeal lasting 44 days altogether: so that twvo cases aloneale for the Lord Chancellor's attendance on7O days. (Hear.) WVhat was bia noble and le-arnied friend to do? How was he to eonduct himiself on such occasioias? Was he to refuise his attendance in the Com- mnittee of Privileges, and to withdraw himself ? And if he duly attended his duty- in the House of Lords, was it matter of surprise that delays should arise in the proceedings before him in the Court of Chancery; or was it to be impute-d to himn that lamentable and injurious conisequences sometimes ensued to suitors on that account ? HetI(Mlr. Peel) had been informed upon good authority, and indeed by M1r. Cowper (an officer well known for his intelli- genee and experience to all who were in the habpit of attending in the Hlouseof Lords), that in the Roxburghe case one counsel alone oc- cupied the Lords-how many hours did hon. gentlemen suppose ? (Cries of hear.) Wheni they blamed the noble and learned lord for dely they were hound to inquire whether it was not just possible thtcunsel might have tome abare in prodtucing that delay. (Hear.) He (Mir. Peel) observed those cheerst, and well knew that he was at present placed in something like the situation of Oliver Cromwell, who confessed that he had found quarelling with lawyers a isomewhat dangerouis eugagement. (Laughter). But when delay was charged elsewhere, let it be known, that a counsel, whose name he reallydid not know (hear), occupied the Committee df Privileges in the ouse of Lords-not 18 minutes, as some mnight supmpose.-nor yet 18 hours, as others would anticlpate,-but, 18'days. (Hear, hear.) Incredible as the fact might seema, it not,only appered upon the minutes of evidence taken betere the H?oitie of Lords, but it rested upon the information, also.' of their officer, Alr. Cowper. (Hear.) If there was any mistake in the statemnent, not only Mlr. Cowper but the minutes were ini error. WVhat he (5Ir. Peel) hadl now stated appeared to him to amount to a complete vindaic-ation of the Lord Chancellor, as far as there was any quiestion of delay on his part, and seemed to demonstrate thaLt such was the present state of business in the Count of Chancery- that it was imposisible for abilities, however great, or a constitution, ho~w- ever gtrong, to bear- the fatigues whinch the country imposed upon him who presided over it. (Hear.) He(Mlr. Peel) was proceeding step by step, and was always glad, in the course of an argument, to hear how far those to whom he might ha ppen to be opposed concurtred with him ; and he therefore hailed the cheers that pro- ceededA from the other side with pleasuire. If geatlemen on that side would admnit that what he had to-night sitated was a com- plete vindication of the hon. and learnedc judge, he (Mr. Peel) would admiit to them that they hadl made out a cate of complete justifica- tion for inquiry, and consideration, in respect to his court. It was qute imposbe for him (Mr. Peal) to deny, upon a review of all Itht had. b-een said as to the constitution, the proceedings, and the delays of Chancery, that the time was now come when the whole of these mattee should be thoroughlY inquired into. (Hear, hear.) In the course of the last session, the attention of the lHouse of Lords was drawn to the state of the Appellate Jurisdiction;- and in the result of their inquiries, the Liords caine to the same con- clusion at which he had arrived. The words of their comnmittee were, "'There ii now a manifest impossibility that any person holding the great seal can find the time that is requisite for the exe- cution of the offices of Lord High Chiancellor and of Speaker of the House of Lords, and for the transaction of all the other business iticidental to those high offices." 'With a view of remedying the evils that were occasioned by the state of the Appellate Jurisdiction, the committee in question recomm-ended, " that a commiittee he institutted for the purpose of inquiring into the forms4 of proceeding observed in the Scottish courts of justice." That committee was formed ; and he wouild only say of it, that it terminated its labouirs with great success, and had given great satisfaction to that part of the country to which those labours were! more immediately, addresed. In the concluding part of their report the commissioners entered into an explanation of the state of business in Chancery. Mlany im-1 portant alterations, upon this important subject, wvere then noticed as having been suggestedt; but they concluded by declaring, that they coud frmno eciedopinion upon these matters; acknowledging, however, that many recommended, especially, the remoaval, from the business of the Lord Chancellor, of luatic and bankrnpt petitions. (Hear.) The), stared farther, that all these were points of such great iprtance,that they would only recom~mend their being maturely re- consoidered. Since the time when this report was prepared,the attention of the L,ord Chancellor htimself (he Was autEhorized to say) hatd been directed to the same subjects. It was stated in the report that the orders made by former Chancellors as to the practice of the court were than under consideration. It was, indeed, then inteinded to ascertain which of these were most conformable to the presentpractice, and that when these shiould beasubmitted,theLords would determine upn proposing such alterations as might be deemed most expedient. No0w having stated thus much,he (Mr.Peel)was, furtherprepared to say tht is obe ad lared rind adhimself recommended the adopionofsme atertios. (ear) Tat noble lord had advised that thatit soul exaineintothestat ofits jurisdic-tion,adit many other of the ioints to whic the proposedcomte of the hon. and leaxLneA gentlemanwa to adldress itself. (Hear, hear.) Indeed into all of those with one exception only. That was, - the political character of -'the Lord Chancellor (hear)-a point 'which h,e (Sr. Peel) considered to be a great political one, and such as neither the hon. and learned gentlemani's commaittee, nor thecom- mission that had been just adverted to, was properly competent so discuss. Suire he was, h~owever, that the bon. member would agree with him, that to divest the Lord Chancellor of the political duties of his office, wouldI be to do an act that ouight not to be deLer- minedupon,excet upon the gravest and maost careful.delibera~tion. He as qualy ur tht te hn. ndlearned gentleman would bea inmin, hatthi obecionto heinvestment of one person wit poitial nd udiialpowrs adnot always been felt, even by tosewhothoghtami aced iththat hon. and learned fentleman. This extreme objectioc to the uaiom of political and udicial functions, in the case of a liate noble and learned lord who once presided over the crimtinal jurisiction of this country (we pre- xume the late Lord Ellenborough), had undoubtedly not been felt even bythe hon. andlearnedgent.himsd?f (CheersfromtheTreasury benches.) Without meaning to apply any thing like the arga- mentuzm ad honrimrem to that hon. and learned gent., he (Air. Peel) would only say, that in the case ha alluded to, the objection really didnot appearto have operated with some members who might now maintain a different principle. But the hon. and learned gentleman proposed a committee that should inquire into the expenses of the Courtof Chancery, and into its delays and the causes thereof. He (Mr. Peel) had no hesitation in saving that be believed-very- great benefit might be derived fron such Inquiry. (Cheers fioro all sides of the house.) The hon. and learned gentleman bad entered into some details of a case of great hardship; but it was possible that very objectionable forms might have been once used,that. were. not now in practice. The hon. and learned gent. had found a c5se in-which a-bill in Chancery consisted of 90 folios, 6 only of which he Wsid were relevant, and the other 84, he observed, might weUl ble- duced. 'He (Ar. Peel) had nodifficulty in stating his beief, that the reduction of those84 folisoinight be an important matter, not only iul pirntofjiutice, biutalsoin pointof economy. Upon the sub ectof that fund-which was caled the" deadmoney"fund,the smmehon.nsem- her bad asked why ahoula not the Accountant-General of the Countof Chanesry *ive fion ftime to time an sacount of the monies ituhis hands; -under these circumsta4cp, on the same principle that the En`k of England published ct intervala tiacount of unairued. dividends remainingin theitcofers? ReaUy, withostssnderat3ndhig snhtngaboqtsuch m2#*s, acialle nd Se -iDg onln.a'an sit lg1;htened san witls&ixt-pereco,'fi*(Mr; tel) sictul jat1 b*getd gs"gDthtiom'i Wpoe nbn r) ad,inSd e^?E wily. .dAone et* pvntU ;..lzm-ny .hin,)sttUo a b-tlsaltn inditeelhim toe thLS diffietty otc sbe piency of such a proposjnota.. e bad .as little .dificulti in dedaingthat be h-tbou6h; tlec:'whole diige of everyr stit.in Chancery from-its institation toSitj end, ought. tM be narrolvw watcheha nd exactly traeed: .and that 'evVr~ staeg (of course he ia" speiag promDectiely) ought to be accurately considered, in order to tee-how ff businehs might be e:pedited aind expenscs retrenched. Great benrit urnf doubtedly might result to the public from such a course of observa;. tion. As to the bankruptcy petitions, they fotmed a part of- the LordChancellors duty whbch was nor constitutionally .uherent.1n, his office, but hai devolved upon him by act of Patlinment. . OA this tonic, the rght hon. gentleman (Ur. Peel) admitted that the. Lord Chancellorhadtoo much businessimposedupon himn, and that the object of the commission which he had alluded to ought to be to' inquire whatpart of that business cOUld,roperly be abstracted fioni him. Upon the samesub,ect he wasled to observe that it wIs of great importance to notice that a great difFernce df p 'on had, prevailed among legal men. The late Sir S. nilly differed from thehon. and learne? gentleman (iUr. Williams) about the propriety of continuing to tbe noble and learned loid thejurisdiction m bank. ruptcy cases. If he (lr. Peel) understood the gestmes* of the: hon. gentleman,he supposed that he did not thibk it proper so tocon.: tinue it. As to the inquiry proposed by the hon. and learned gert,, he (Mr. Peel) had no objection to its bsing instituted, if it were in... trusted to the most conipetent authorities. As to the constitutior. of such a cornmission,ie well knew how, difficilt it was for a man to divest hi-nself of his own particular prejudices; and, there. fore, perhaps, the honourable and learned gentleman would sup.. pose that his (Mr. Peel's) only object was to defeat his motion for a committee. He meant, however, to declare his own convictiObn, that a commission for these purposes might be formed o, a much better constitution than that proposed. As totaling away the ju. risdiction m bankruptcy cases, that might be a matter very proper for consideration ; but who were most qualified to decide uDon it ? Suppose that they took either from the common laW or .-oni equity the best and most enlightenedl authorities; for instance, Lord Redeb. dale, Sir Win. Grant. (Hear.) He vassorry to observe thaPa lutgh accompanied the menfonn of such names. (Hear.) He obser,ed the dissent expressemi by the hon. and learned gent. (Mr. Williatns), but that lion, member was not in a situation to see the sneers that were occasioned by the mention of these names. After re. tiring from their high situations witl the universal approbation of their fellow countrymen, if these enlightened individuals could be induced toattendsuchacommission, how much benefit uiigbt not the countr expect from the experience of those who had retired with so much honour from the judgment seat ? If to these were added some of the senior masters in Chancery, could It be doubted that stich a commission woulcd be better qualifie-d to consider such grave natters than any committee of that house which the hon. and learned gentleman could propose? Now it was, precisely such a coim mission that the Lord Chancellor had advised the Crown to empower; and he (Mr. Peel) should support it, because he beheved that it would be more effectual than any other. Dealing in perfect candour with the hou.; gendeman he would tell hi that such a commission as he (lr. Williams') novwproposed,P/l lastyrproposed, vwould have the semblance of a criminatid the rd Chancellor, and he for one would oppose any motion tmat should seam to criminate a minister who had presided for two-and- twenty years in the Court of Chancery with so much honour and intelligence as the present Lord Chancelor. 'They were to remember that they were not now dealing sith Lord Eldon's political character, buthe protested that it was outof noregardfor the respectabilityof his private character that he (Mtr. Peel) would not consent to anything which should look like crimination. No man had ever been mote exposed to the most base and most unmerited obloquy than the Lord Chancellor. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Peel) well knew ths the spirit and the principles of men of honour would prevent even that nobleman's warmest rpponents in the house from giving their pro. tection to such calumntes ; but misrepresentations of the most un. justifiable nature had been made in quarters vhich the Lord Chan. cellorcouldnot even notice. Rehadeen described as a man realizing enormous emoluments, and resisting every utteinpt at areform in the Court over which hepresided, by hichthoseemolxments might bein themost distant manner affected. (Heat.) Never wassa charge so tin- founded aXs this brought forward. Asto the profits of the Chancellor. ship,thev might belarge,but wonld any body in the country suppose, not upon viewsof aprivate naturemerely,butupon thehighest reasons of state, that such an officer oughtinot to be splendidly paid? (Hear.) The fact was, howrever, that durinr, the last three years the average produoc of the Lord Chancellor's whole emoluments had not amounted to more than 12,0001. a vear. (Ilear, hear.) Surely none of the hon. gentlemen opposite wold grudge to the lab rious dis. charge of such various and heavy dutes such a remuneration. Let them only tinkofwhatvaustimporanceto estate itiwas that aman shoulid betemptedin toemain in such snanoffl in the profession, and to relinquish tharivate and more extensive emolnmeatwhichinanother situation ha might realize. God forbid that money alone should be supposed to actuate those who aspired to such high dignities;i but at leasrt those considerations which might not operate UpOn public men, might well be entertained by those who chose to remain in privatestations. When any-proposition had been uade to reieve the present Lord Chancellor frori any part of the duties of bis office, he had always proposed that the person selected to dis- charge it should be paid by himn individually. (ear, hear.) What charge, than, could be more unjust than tbat whiclrhad been cade, seeing that the Lord Chancellor desired that the salary of these deputies iQud be deductd' from his own income ? Contrary to his lordship's w,vish, Parliaent had determined that only half of the Vie-liancelor's income shoulid be provided by the Chancelor; but this half, asum of 2,11901., was annually taken from his lordsiip's purse. When sucl base insinuations were thrown out against such ant individual, the public.had an interest in knowing facts qf this indisputable nature,.. Not long ago the Office of the Secretary of BaolDtupts was ncwli regu. Iated, and, like the Bank of England, it hadibeen previouslys ltow. ed a certain number of helydavt ; but the Lord Chancellor, with a view to the despastcl. of public business, and fqr: the benefit of snitors had insisted that the office clerks should attend e.very day. It becamne, therefore, neesary that they 'aborld be. en- dowed with additional emoluments; an!d, from whit funds did the' Lord Chnecellor of England provide them ? With, a dis. interesteduess never knomwn before under sucl circumstances, he furnished them from his own incorne;-ua *ac4lficd which in three years amounted to 13,W01:p Ld to pnblie'lssdivjduai for the discharge of their public duty. (Hear, hear.) It had been stted, moreover, upon authority which if now alive would give tbe statement the widest contradiction,that the Lord Chancelor invariably despatched linatic and bwakrupt petitions because he derived emoolu. ment from theirdespatch.Now the fact was,that though the nature of these cases at all times required the utmost expedition,he received not i- a single 6d. for despatching them. He was now occupied in hearing a bankruptpetition; he (Mir. Peel) kne,v uot how many days the hear. ing had Fasted, or whether it was as long as the counsel's speech in the Roxburghe case.-(here the Solicitor.General checked the rig't hon. gent.) Behad really to beg his hon. and learned friend's pardon for allthat he had saidon that subject (much laughter); however, on the caseto whichhe had alluded, and whichhati occupied al- ready so much time, the Lord Chancellor's fee was 12s. 6d. *_ 12s. 6id. was the fee that wasto induce the Lbrd Chancellor of Erig- land to commit a manifest injustice, by taking a bankrupt petition oat of its course! (Hear, hear.) He knew that these were not the charges made by hon. gentlemen opposite; but they, admitting fully his lordship's integrity and disinterestedness, contended that he occasioned all the mischievous delay of which they cornplained. If the noble lord was unwilling to pronounce a final judgment which wvuld have the effect of raising one family to prosperity and of plunging another in ruin; if, perhaps from somue constitutioDal defectahe was not so rapid in his decisions ao the circumstances probably mni5ht require, would it not he' fair and liberal to allow fbr the imperfections of human naturc, rather than to cast obloquy upon an individual who possessed the highest talent and the moat spotless integrity? (HIear.) The ddayswhich were complained of arose from tbe enormous mnass of busine s which the lord Choaelror had to dispose of. Ie could state instances in which his lordship was called away from the consideration of causes in the Court of Chancery to sttend to business of a different description. He (Mir. Peel) himself had frequently been the occasion of withdrawing the Lord Chancellor from the court over which-he presided to attend to the Recorder's report. It was the duty of the Lord Chancellor to give his advice to his Majesty on the subject of that report. His lordship was in this manner very frequeutly prevented from the contemplation ot equity causes to the consideration of those cases in which were in- volved the question of life or death. It had faller. to his (Alr. Peel's) lot to send tg the Lord Chancelor at tbe rising of his court, to inform him that on the ensuing morning his Majesty would re- ceive the Recorder's report, containiing, probably, 40 or S0 cases. On groceedin from the Court of Chancery, his lordship would, as was is unifbrm oractice on such occasions, apply himself to the reading of every indifidnal case, and abstract notes from all of then,; and he (dllr. Peel) had known more than one instance in which he had commenced this labour in the evening, and had been found pursuing it by the next sun. (Hear, hear.) Thus after hav- ing spent eight hours in the Court of Chancery, his lordssip woutla be compeUed to employ fourteen hours more in the coi- sideraaion of cases which involved the life or death of individuals. If in conseonence of the 'varius duties which the Lord Chan- cellor was c0aled upon to execute, some delay should-arise in the proceedings in Chancery, could it be imputed as blame to the in- dividual, when it was known that his whole time was devoted to tion of the Lord Chancellor to indulge in pleasures and idle amuse. ments, he might justly be blamed for the delays which occurred in his court; but when, as was realy the case, that individuial lhad for a period of 32 years denied-himself every indulgence, shunned every pleasure, and secluded himself frpm the society of the world, in order to devote his whole time to the performance of his public duties, it would be the most unjust thing possible to make ier of crimination against him that he was not able to en pgathe whole of them. (Hear.) He would admit, that no consideratons of personal feeling ought to prevent tle house fiom doing what it consideredl poper to be done with regard to the question which had been brou rht before it ' but, on the otherhand, when he recol. lected the speeYches which were made last year, he coald not, not. withstanding the moderation of the hon.' mover on the present occa- sion, get rid of the impression that tie motion befbre the house was a condnuasion of that of iast yetar, and that such would be the infer- ncca whichit wrould draw from the proceeding, and he thertifore calledt upon the house torZejecit. He wssperfectly satialled that if thebonse did so, the country would confirm its decision. The country was nor' ungrateful to tho'se wo had served them. When the houst recoUW Iected that the individusl wvhose conduct had been msade the sub. ject of discussion had for 22 yearsadministered justice in thehightz court of tfie countr; when they recollected that he bore the' honoured name of Sott, which, notwithstanding tlie tem- porary obldquy which had be cast -upon it, was illustratedV by the servsces of an Eldonnd a Stowell, and would shine. conspicuously in the judidal annals of the country, he trusted tbat' they would ,tertifttheir confidence in his talent and integrity by re- jecting the 'motion which' had been. boulght forward, and he was convinced that. the 'ieoplt of 'this. country. would be generous and just epou O pptrtthedeciaionoftheirirepresentatives. (Hear.) tr. ABBRCRO3IBY said, that hew,ould- notf have presented' himself to the notice of the hot e-'buefor some observations whichJ 'f- I from the sKht h44aksbrle 'gentemnan who had just lii" down. H'btggd.tio offer hls'sinperi .congratulations to bii: learned and bon. fri&nd upon the aiucces wbich -had attended his efforts; but the -cong*lulations wbicbl he. wished -to pifer to tle public must in AcODhigueDce of whdf'alen from 'tharight hon.' secretary, bie sijec'tto 6ome .4ualifi.tiops.. Theriglit lhon. gent.d hIad iaia, ibtlt *aik,llo intentiori of.Ssinistes to have proposed the- appointment oEa 'niisibn,'*her.'he present motion. had beini' biouglht foiwdriotA.ii* L.That -deiartioihbav4ii,ben made, hu' 'was o thttepub'ic would 5itirbute tht sastitutioQjf' any inq6itr.'nta the -proceedings of tOe z - - vienw(othee).ir itieli6 binabn towhi misisbteis -u&d eotre.yrmtW lb-:by-th l -abi n- n na oo acqs,htiliaaktt, op> hn'an5P~ =I;p,~W tr. im i 6riri Zr.At I subsequent scoimt Wu enotwh inlu.e a sort a hcota1e taf.^ derAtandwr that we zpvu all former claisn Air. NUfdiii thc tight thorl.an t.ad oC4fbiwAd4.9e& t*ber two tbings that-,eretndirely. lAr-'1ans and subidie& HIewould make thep cse deiru-.Supp ealn&ivzdtad d vao a mm no h'er.obepi Oit m. t,1 -.n n h-' ube5ently nde. barpain topulehase soniie gbdifr andh pabx orrhich,h-id '-i, t'here any incongstercy in tbat matno-.comrlng i cgtRXtI,d cim- sng iisrnortgAg? P tHO shouELd like to .a-. tbccudtn't s .n ' which the itegls of set od were stated if-it. were not rendre!4 It:. would'appear,is alearnedgentleman had id on.a f0ree 6Oi&.idn; like the composdon with.aninsolven,tl;i teraib"tkW,Jiilf- a-crown in the po-and. The pight b?unt1r)ilm'tthe. Chancellor of the Exchequeri) Sttes ihat *e t"e" 8et baspaiz for 30 millions of Austrian xtock; bt gn tb,rhe t.swrio it. MIr. Hume here Teferred fo the worth 4 the ata, *hich, Were-." 2 50D,O00L- sterlin$ to. be, Itu'd intO the Brhsh TIea. sury;" ana though the following' rticle scate& tdt the' 'nony was to be paid by-the houses of Bating And Co,, and RothKhild,.4of London, " aceording to such terss houldbe i ieQ pce (br, hear); vrt he contended that the terms were yil.ai as se forth ix ,the firs'altfide of the q. <. The resolution was thengeed to, and another relatlve to tie same sub-ect; after whch-ti .house resumd. hep reort -wa ordered tG be received to-morrorw. The otlher o,ders of the day were then dispqsid Z and the hoalse adjourned at half-past 11 oeelock. Errata.-In our report of the Chancillor of the Exche4.r's seech in opening the budget, for Brazilian read *'?siotr9 (or thrown) silk. The duty an plin silk imported shbuld Ihave eeA noted at 5s. instead of Ss. per lb. LIST OF THE; MINORITY Of 8, who voted for MIr. Hume's Amt'ndment for the Rduction of the regular Army from 73,000 to 63,000 men. Denmnan, T. 30hnstone, W. A.Russell, W. WhItbread, W. 11. Hobhouse, J. C. Ingilbv, Sir W. Tennyson.c. Wood, M. TelersHon, H. (1.Bennet and J. Hume. HoUSg OF COMMONNS TTxt4.t t.T O'L