House Of Commons, Monday,...
The Times, 1824-06-01T00:00:00

AIr. 0. PHILIPS presented a petition fromrtbe pawnbrokers of Mlanchester aainst the eqtuitable loan company bill, and similar pe- titions from the inhabitants and public officeis of Alanches;er and Salford.-Ordered to be printed. THAMES NAVIGATION. The report on the Thames navigation bill was brought up, and after a few words front Aldermen C. SMITa and WOOD, it was ordered that the bitl be engrossed. The Dledway navigation bill was reada second time, on the motion of Mlr.RoBAtTS. The. Thames and Aledway canal bill was read a third time and passed. TI8E MISSIONARY SAITTH. Petitions praYing the house to institute an inquiry into the cir- cumstances attending the trial of this individual were presented by Sir WV. LEMroN, fromCornwall; by Colonel PALMIER, from Bath; by the ATTORNEYYGRXERAL, from Ashburton; by SirR. SHAW, from the Hibernian Alissionary Society; by Mr. BURItELL, from Ditchley and Pentworth , by MIr. DENISON, from aAlitchlam; by ?r. PORT5tX, from, Sidney: by ;r. SYKES, from Hull; by Mlr. MIos-Cr, from Readinlg. Mlr. IIALOOtAND presented a similar petition, signed by 800 in1labitans of the town of Ip3wich ; iMlr. R. S>re'}rspresentred a similar petition from the ministers of 17 dis- sentinS congregationsn the county of Bucks, signed by them on the bebalt of 8.000 individuals. Sir T. BARING and Sir J. WBOTTESLEY presented similar petitions from the London Missionary Society, and the town of Leek. MIr. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from a member of the Royal Colege of Surgeons, complaining of the increase of quack doctors. Sir R. SHAWV Presented a petition fronm Belfast, praying for the abolition of netro slavery. Lord EAST' NOR 'presented a petition from the tanners of Here. ford, a8ainst the hides' regulation bill. Sir C. COLE pfesented a petition from the Glamorganshire Ca- nal Company. against the duty on coals. Lord BINNING presented a petition fron-. a poor man resident at ffillingham, Kent, whose land had been rendered useless to him in consequence of some alterations in the dock.yard, and praying fbr redress. His Lordship also presented a petition from the notaries of Roxburgh, against the duties on their licences. Mr. CAMI PBELL presented a petition from Argvllshire, in fa- votur of the free intercourse in spirits between Scotland and England. Mr. PLUAIER presented a petition front the London Assurance Company, against the maiine insurance bill. hlr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition from upwards of 600 underwriters, against the marine insurance bill, and praying to be heard by their counsel in support of their objections. FOREIGN TREATIES. Mr. CANNING said that, by command of his Mlaiesty, he had toplace on the table of tie house, copies of commercial treaties en- tered into between his AMajestv and the Kings of Prussia and Swe- den.-The papers were accordingly laid on the table. Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from a certain individual, whose name we could not hear, complaining of the bil for regu- latiing bonded wheat. Sir HENRY PARNE I, presented a petition from certain maltsters in theQueen's county, complaiaing of some mode ofassess- ing thc duty upon them. AIr. HERRIES promised that the complaint of the petitioners should be attended to. CATHOLICS OF IRELANU. Mr. PLIUNKETT rose to present a petition, to whiclh he beg- ged to call the attention of thelhouse. Itwas from the undersigned( Roman Catholics of Ireland, and prayed for relief against the penal laws which stilt oppressed them, and were injurious to the welfare of the empire at large. lie begged to state, in presenting this pe- tition, that he entirely concurred in its contents, with the exception of one single paragisph or observation. The petition was, with the exceptionable passage to which lie had just alluded, drawn up with temper and propriety. It stated truly enough, that the petitioners were not now under the necessity of making a parade of their de- clarations of royalty, for those were already known to influence their conduct as faithful subjects of the empire, and that their at- tachment to the reigning ftamily had long been proved. Thev fur- ther stated that they should never forget the grace and kindness shown to Ireland by his Majesty, during his late visit, and the gracious ant paternal example which he latl set for the ex- tinction of the party diricrences which had so long convulsed their counitry. Tfthe royal intentions, they added, had been frustrated, it was not by any act of the Catholics, hut by their enemies, and that they (the Catholics) bad held the Royal injunction sacred until their priesthood and theirreligion were opprobriously and calumni- ously sullied " by dignitaries of the church establisherl bv law." This was the nasssage which he wished had not been inserted in the petition, for it was calculated to introduce an angry and recrimi- nating feeling into their question, which was calculated to mar iLs progress, which, in his Judgment, materially depended upon the discussio;t being divested of every irritable, and above all of every polemicaltopie. The petitionersappealed to the evitlenceof the last two years, to show that there could be no peace in Ireland, as long as the great preponderating portion of the people was shut out by the minority fiom the enjoyment of those civil rights to vhich both were equally entitled. They pointed out the injurious and galling elccts which had sprung from this monopoly of power-the expense it entailed upon England-the poverty and insubordination which it perpetuated in Ireland, and they praised the administration of the Mlarquis lrellesley for its equity and mildness. 'They re- spectfully submitted to the house, whether the tirne had not arrived when, instead of coercion and exclusion, a middle course ought to be pursuied by the legislature towards Ireland, and declared the en- thusiastic gratitude with which they sbould hail so wise and salutarv a change in the policy of the Government. He begged particularly io be understood as presenting a petition from the ' un- dlersigned" Catholics, he believed 1o00 in number, and from the " unersigned" only. In doing so, he disclaimed being under the control of any body of petitioners, or connec-ed with- any party of them in Ireland. He was peculiarly anxious, at the present period, to have this particularlv understood by the house, by the pablic,and the petitioners. In presenting this petition, he wished to state fur- ther, that he did not contemplate any ulterior motion upon it in the present session. He had always, in the discussions upon this ques- tion, reserved to himself the right of judging when he should found UpO the petition of the Ca-tholics a motion for further proceed logs, and in abstaining in the present session from founding any such motion upon the petition, he was gratifiea to 1ind that he. acted in coincideace with the opilions of his old- est and best friends of the Catholics, who concurred with him in thinking that any motion now would be unavailing and hopeless. When he could not advance their question, he certainly should, in the exercise of their judnent, refrain from taking any step which could do no good, and only puta number of gentlemen to the inconvenience of unnecessary attendance. Having said so much, he might be permitted to add, and again to avoid all possible mis- construction, that he. still retained unaltered eve*r opinion he had formed upon the Catholic question: those opinions were formed ac- cording to the best dictates of his judgment, upon very mature deliberation, and after the most unprejudiced Tiew of the whole sub- ject. He had no motive to prompt then,, but a sense ofjusticel and sound policy-prejudice entered not into hts consideration tbr if he had any, it swould have applied the other way. fHe had re- flected upon and -examined over andover again these opinions, and, his mature conviction was,. lookinlg at the state of Ireland, at the state of England, and of Europe, he saw everywhere rrpsons for the more deep coDfirmatisn of his opinion, not only of the justice and of the imjportance, but also of the urgency of this act of concession (hear, hear), and that everv hoar of delav which it encoantered was calculatedl to diminish its chance of ensuring tranquillity and peace. (Cries of " liear, hear.") Of this also he was Most positively convinced-that whatever tenporary obstacles nmigltt oppose thte success ot this cause, its advancement and ul- timate success could not be prevented, and that onward to its final consumniation it must proceed with unerring force. He would repeat, that at some period-or other this question must be carried: there were rural causes acting with it as certaia and unerring in their-course,- as those physicalzauses which operated to produce na- ture's w,rk.- It was a cause which never could be put an end to bat by the accomplis<hmente-of its object, and it was, in every view in which hecould turn the question, his positive conviction, of the highest iniportance to the emnpire at large, thtat they should accele- rate an object whigh ultimately they could not resist without sacri- fidrng the peace and interests of the community. (Loud cries of Hear, hear.") The petition was then brought up, laid on the table, and or- dered to be prifnted. IRISfl INSURRECTION ACT. Lord PALMERSTON biought up the report of the select com- mittee on- the state of Ircland, which was iaid on the table, and or- dered lo be p rioted Alr. GO IJBIRN gave notice of a motion for to-amorrow re- specting the renewal of the Irish itisurrection act. .Ur. ABERCROM BY complained of this precipitation, syhen the I repbrt of the select commtittee hadibeen only thatmoment broughtup rand-when the evidence could not be printed for some days. (Hear.) The house should recollect, that they were called upon to look at the Irish insurrection act now, in quite a different light from that in which it had been received upon any former tinme. On all pre- vious occasions it was called for upon the responsibility of his la- jesty's uinisters ; but now they were to sanction it upon the effcctof evidence vhich ouglht to be tangibly before them. lr. CALCRAFT hoped th.atuntilFriday next, at all events, no step would betaken in thebusiness. Theycouldnotlhavean ealier day consistent with the allowance of any thine for the examination of the evidence. Mlr. PEEL said, that sufficierit time would be allowved before the second reading of the bill, and tbat the preliminary step would not pledge any bodv to a specific course. A2r. ABERC?ROAIBY. repeated his former observations, and protested against this precipitate course. 'rCATHOLIC ASSOCIATION. -Mr. BROWQ NLOW%V rose to present a petition, with which he had been intristed; a,aifist the Catholic Association, which held its sittngs in Dublip. .Anm hel. hoped from what had fallen from the right honourable.g'entleman (dIr. Canning) on a former night, on the subject of extending equal justice without distinction to all classes of the ' jinpliof, Ieland, that the existing' laws would be f-airly administered betwecn them, atnd thlat if from the temper of a cettain body of indhividual5s in tbat country, the existing laws wecre inapplicable tO- meet -a crying evil;- 'that others votuld be substituted for-thc uttat;iment of' tbat eond; or else, it wvould be impossible to mnaiatain' an equWa} and rational' Govern- ment mi that unhappy country. As the petition which had been transmitted to hiim contained some very extraordinary facts, he felt it his duty to pause befbre lie presented it to that house, and had therefore taken time to inquire into the particulars froni a gen- tleman who was a friend of his, and a man of the greatest bonour and respectability. The result of his inquiry was, that the names appendedt to the petition were those of freemen and freeholders vho were at the time assembledl in Dublin, and who complained of a heavy grievance whici afficted their countrr. ' The names to this petition wvere not numerous, but he lhad evety' reason to know that -it would have been signed bv thousands who took a V siwnilar idew. - of 'the body stylbig iis-lfihe~X~tlholie .AssoEiatian,1 if the petition had beii carried about for signatuires., T1Sb peiitioni- however,'dfd not depend tipon;names hu epk favourable construction fromi the view which they took of the state of their -countrv, aadI of the danger which this Association hadl caused-.a danger whichi must be removed for the sake of thte peace of the country. Thelpetitioners stated that they were hctuated with a sirii6re d&i to promote peace-and-goodwill -among thieir-fellow. cod'ntrymen of elil classes. These-were excelleit sentiments, Which shwe ta the petitioners were niot actuated by anY i=Proer or excluiiSve feeling.' The petitioners showed that tile ieral peace anid harmony of' Ireland was inconsistent withi the existence of this Catholic Association. The petitioniers stated that they found, if not the full cause, at least onie essential cause, of the present dissensionis in Ireland, and that was the CatoicA Association now sittin and exercising tite power and prero. gaties o Goernmnt ad Prliaentin the Iiish inetropohis-he andpreogaivs o Goerment and Parliament, for ~ regula session-ssomintedtheircommittees-ieceiv- ed ptitons-efered hemto-teircomittee of grievance-ordered a cesusof he opnatit~ o b taen,andhadt actually proceededl to do tat hichtheHous ot Comenswasalone thae constitutional organ of imposing-namelv, to levy a tax upon thec nation. - They assessed the cities, towvns, and eveni parishes. appointinq collectors in ever3ydistreifor thereceiptof actx which theycalled "Gatholic rent'* (hear, hear) andl hiow was that to be appropriated ? First, it was to supply a Catholic priesthood tor America; secondly, a supply for their haughty ind erratic neighbouirs in England, who were now losing the supply of Catholic clergy whichi the French. revolution had poured into this country. There was a third appropriation, which was ?0 buy up such portion of the liberal and enlightened press of thie empire as could be found to second their views. He would putt it to any mian who knew the state of Ireland and disposition ofits inhabitants, whether such a focus for inflamn- mation could with safety he allowed to exist in that 'Country ? The Irish were not a cold and phle-gratic people, but rather like touchwood,liable tcoignihion up on tlieapplication of that inffammtable mnatter which this association was weekly disseminating amnongst them. if in England, whbere thiepeople were less liable to inflaini mation, the Gov ernment felt it necessary, during a periodt of mo- mentary distress, to put d6vrn the factious demagogues whio excitedt themi to mnischief, it was surely not unreasonable for those who were anxious to preserve the peace of such a country uis Ireland to expect that a similar step would be taken to extinguish the peculiar spirit of discord, whiche, in thie very centre of Dblin, was raised anid upheld, for the dissemination of everyspecies of ca- lumny, and misrepresentation; and for holdingout, in fact,to abeated andI feverish pteople, as dlirect a provocation to resort to arms for a re- dress of grievances, as designing men could give,with sufficient cun- ning for thie preservatiorn of thtir own personal safety. WVas it no- thing that the G overnmnent should suffer suich a body to exist tinder its ow,n eye, and to proceed upon ani organized plani of calumny aild defamation against all whoin they deemed thneir opponents ? Tro suich an extenit had they carried this systeas, that the present Arch- bishiop of Dublin could hardlyv quit his own house, without being ex- posed to popular insult, in conisequtence of the calumnies which had been circutlatedi against hiim. As long as the Catholic Association was perusiitted to sit in Dublin,the mnembers of thathouse in vain renewed their request eaeh session, for freedomi of speech in Parliament. lie would not cosmplain of aniy fair or free discussion out of doors of what was saitd in Parliamenit; but if aniy man in thiat houise entertained or expresse-d senitiments opposed to the views of the Catholic Association, he was made the object of their czaluniny; and a man must possess more than the ordIinary nerve and contemspt I forpopular opinio) thn. was exPected in a free country like this, be- fore be could be called uipon to 'expose himself to sucti a tide of ca- luminy. He had read the works of w, iters upon law, who saitd that the law was convertible into sovereignity. The practice in Ire- land lie was sorry to say, did not support this theoretic opinion, fot thlere the law was only convertible into impotency and ridicule ; people wtere taught to lauigh at and sc-orn its provisions. He knew it was said that this Association inet for tIme Purpose of petitioni 41 he believed they miet for no such purpose:teCtoiso read wvanted no assistants to prepare their petitions ; every peasant in Ire- land could draw such a petition up as well as a statesman, and hie %.ad niever hieard of any of their Petitions failing from- any inaccuracy in time recital of the grievance. 'But the factiwas, that this Catholic Association, though it assemtbled last January, anid met on suiccesa sive occasions since for the dissemination of licentious harangues, yet it had always aajourneI wvithout preparing petitions ; there hiad not been one transinitted from it yet, although lie heard there were one or two on tile way. The plea of the right of pe- titioning was not tto be urged as an excuse for the props.- gation of doctrines intemiperate, if not treasonable in. their natture. Omi thie contrary, such a plea wvas an aggravation of' the ofTence in the e) es of those wvho iiost valued that popular righlt. The violent use of that privilege had not unfreqeently been miadeI theexcse or eprssig, or erey te excess, but a considerable' porton f te oiginl rght Th riht of petition seenied likely zealous friends and mnost injurious advocates in theAssociation. (Hear.) lie did not menar todeny that the CatholicAssociation mnight oris-inally have been established for a laudlable purpose ; but if that had been the case, the institution hail been grossly perverted. As it existetd in its present state, those who, fromn thieir talents and sta- tion in the country, should take the lead, were stire to be overborne by the factious elenmagogute and the ignorant upstart. (Hear, bear.) The proceedlings of that body outraged every Protestaist, and scan- dalized every, Catholic. The respectable portion of' the Roman Ca- tholic popuilationi had a righit to complain that they ivere associated in Public opiniion with, andi measured lby the stanidard of, a body of imen wlho hadl just talent enoughi to cheat the law, and to persuade their followers to pursute a course whichi was grAuitying to their Yanity, and subservient to their temporary interests--re. gardlless wvhether, in enideavouring to attain these objects, they endangered the peace of Ireland, and retarded the achievement of that mneasure of whicli they pretended to be the advocates. (Hear, hear) 1Ic hd ben ver bd veragai ased,and' bv friends of the ttoneyGenralforIreand ~vy tat on.and learnied gen- tlenan,whohada sorttim bak weldd te tunders of the law ivih sch larit, soul b a assveobserver of the proceedings of te Caholi Assciaton? e knw not wvhat answer to givre t these questions, except that he supiposed thec proceeding,s of the As- sociation did not come within thle enactiments of any of the existing laws.' He, hiowever, had heard it assertvd, thait else Catholic Association rAight be dealt with by the Attorney-General ; anil if that were the case, it appeared very extraordinary thut the hon. and learned gentleman who exhibited so much anxiety to get hold of the bottle-tllrowers in the theatre, should be so supine with regard to the Association. It certainly was at variance with every prnil ofgvrment, that there should exist in a country a power ustuping habits of authority, and imposing taxes- on the people,which were un-nown to the law of theland. Th,e ques- tion for Parliaiment to determine was, whether the affairs of read shiould he mianaged by thte power constitutionally appointed for that purpose, or by the Catholic Associationi. He called uipon Plarliament to put down tIme Association. In miaking that call he was not at all inconsistent withi himself', because in the course of the pre- sent session he had nude use of stirong languiage in disapproval of all party processions. iR Ireland. WVhat he bad said on thatsub- ject hiad, htowever, been muitch misrepresented.1thad been st,ted, thiat he had confouinded the principlesi of the mnember of Orange societies and of the Catliolic Association, aiEl had disapproved of them both. That he:never could lave done, unless he had been so unfortunate as to express himself direetly opposite to the opinion which he had ever' entertained. He wvas himself a member of the Orange Society', and was ready to beatr any blam'e that tmighit be cast upon hinin on that accounlt. He believed that the principles of ttile Orange Socie. ties were most just, praiseworthy, and constitutional. Thiev were the same principles evhich see in motion the great lshig famailies in the cause of the revolution, and svchich would render thgeir services honoured aslonga.sthe BillofRights shouldbe preserved.WVbathehad before ,aid, andl would now repeat, was, that wheniOrangeor Catholic processions took place anti endangeredl time lives of his Majesty's sub- jecs, heaw houd e rgorusy ad mpartially enforced against all perons wihou rear mopricipes ndopinions. He didi not wish to dal wth pinins,hue nlywithovet acts. Hle trusted that be had aidenogh o stisy eerydisassonate mian that the Catholic Assoiaton as onduiveto eepng live much exasperation in the hears o al me inIreand li ha orginllybeen his intention, after having obtainedI leave to brn pte petition, to have moved thiat it be referred to the commteenwsittingon tle subject of the disitirbed districts of Ireland,bth on hth was prevented from taking that course by thfomofteou. river muchi re- gretted thiat circumstance, but he hopethte shul have done somegood in ireting thie attention of the-house to the suibject. He conludd b moingtlst te ptitonbe broughit up and read.- Thepettio wa thn rad,andorered to lie on the table. On ilIr.PLUN ETT sid,diathe fund it impossible to refrain from mnaking some observations uopatot the lion. niiemberes ad- dres to thie houise. The hots, m ber had mnore than' insinuated that hie (31r. Plunkett) hail neglected his duty in not having insti- tuted proceedings against the Catholic Association, as he had done against the b3ttle-throwers in the tlieatre. Whatever opinions the hionourable mem-ber, and -those who were so kindl as to un- dertake his (Mir. Plurikett's) defence, imight entertain with reard to his conduct, would not in the slightest degree affect his rind, or divert him fromn that even couirse wvhich lie believed it to be his disi to pursue. (Hlear.) It was, lie hioped, unnecessary flor him' to remind the house, that in every instance in whiich lie- had ex- ercised Iiis oflicialpowers as Attorney-General for Ireland, he luad lttokedl straightforwAard to hisL obj'ect, without any considCTatiOti as, to sect or party-that whenever'he huad p3erceived a viol,tion of the lawv -which the public interest required to he prosecatedt, he had fearlessly coins forward to undertake Isie prosecuition. WVhether a canidid construction had always been put upon his4 motives, it was for the hou!se to judge. All that lie would say. w.eL, that the same course whichi be hiad Ihitherto puirsued he twould still continue to pursuLe. He wvould pursue nao left -handed jutice, but be wouild, so far as the laws would enab-le him to carry his intention into effect, whenever he met with a transgression of the law, from- wvhatever party it might proceed, immediately visit it whitl putnisliment. Tke hionourable muember liad, as hie understood, pro&essed himself not only a protector but a member ot the Onatle Ass6eiation. (Ilear, hear.) fe could assure the liononrable member, that if le, were furnished with satis- f_ctory evidence, he would not be foand backward in trying the strength of the law against hini making that profession, and he would abide the consequences of the censure of those re- spectable persons who blamed him for not prosecuting the Catholic Association. (Hear bear.) Me nowv begged to say a word or two with respect to tile Roman Catholic Association. Neither the hon. member nor any other, person-in that lieuse could be more convinced than he was of the necessity of closely attending to the proceedings of that body; but he did not feel called upon-to.make anv declaration as to whether it was within the reach of the law or not, or whether it' was the intention of Govexnment to adopt any measures on tlesubject. He should, indeed, be unwortly the con. fidence of tthose with wvhom he acted, if lie suffered any suct declara- tion to be dmrwn from him in consequence of what had fallen from the- lion. nmemiber.' (lear, hear.) He should not take the trouble to inquire why the hon. member was so anxious tlat he(Mlr.Plunkett) should proceed tgainst the Catholic Association, bit he was rather surprised that the:hbol. member had iiot taken the trouble to make some ittqmi,ry respecting the legatity of othler societies in Ire- land. - The honoarable member said that lie had a right to call upon Parliament to put dowvn the Catholic Association, be- cause he hadt blatnied the Orange processions. Did the honourable member,after having profesbed himself to be a member of lhe Orange Society-amd it was the first time that a member of that house had ventured to nnake such a profession (cheers),-think that he had done enough. when he blamed the proceedings which ema- nated fromthesociety, Icaving thesociety itself uncensurid ? Dil the lion. member tiinkl that he had discharged his duty, because, havitig entered into an un lawful association, the object of whicli was to overntep the pale of- the lavs, and to overawe and coltrol ths Govermment, he discountendnced the murdeis aii n ad ntit which resulted from it ? jf men of. high birth, talent and charac teein hg ounry,eedesepd.d to .ssOcite-tbemselves in cliki with ie lowst drgs ofthe cmuniY,.the. ould find it j o Plunkett) for hiimself and his; friends.(H r) Air. Al1. FI'I-ZGELIALD said, that rmtepro fteiig vi,qit to Ireland, down to nearly the present moment, te Roma Catholics had a dispositison to bttry their animositiesinolvo. anidto shake hands with th'eiropponents3. TFhey hcd onlyaaiou ed this pacific dispositioni, because the Protestant party hdasm' an-attitude of defiance. (Wecar.) Under these cirewnsRtaace, hir1 trusted that the house woil d not adopit the sentimTents containedi the petition, or resort to any measures iniconsistent wish-thie spirit v: impartiality which distinguished the meaesures Of tile 'Irish Govern ment. (Hea-.) * ~ - Sir T. LETHBRIDGE supported',the petition, and contendee that the. Orange Societies in Ireland were only established to coun teract the influence of the Catholic Am6co'cietot. He tkoughs tha- the hon; member (Mr. Brownlow)'w~as entitled to the thanins of th, whole empire for having brought the subject before the house. Alr. C.. HUTCHTINSON had lieard the remarks of the learnet Akttorney-Generiil for Ireland withi infinite satisfactiotf, and h, hpetd thiat they had' met with the ayprobation of ni his colleages He treated that, in the lan*uage of the lion, member for Arinagi (AIr. Brownlow), ministers, individually and collectively, wern determpined to administer 'impartial jutice in irelana. Rl, would aiwdyiv blame any lproceedings of the "Catbolic Association, oi any othier birdy, wliich tended to injure thte great andi juist cause o: Catholic emnancipaltion, which only could be injured by 'ntem e rauce and violence. He did not, hiowever, niean to-say ta h tholic Assodiationi bad done any string of this nature.If nittn their complaints they had tranisgressed any rule ofprrit,twa not their tault, but the fault bf the Goivernment, whyichha rie themn to suchi a state of madness that they were lik-el to hu~jurt thleir cause through excess of zeal in its behalf. Every moifeni of dtelay in granting Catholic emancipation risked tin salvation of the empire. It was useless for the tight honOurablei Se. cretary for Foreign Adl'airs to flatter hiimself that blr lhad disclrarged his duty to the empire, whilst he left thie Catholics of Irolanid ir their present, state of oppressd6n. He gave the tight hioniooable gentleman credit for the liberal policy which lie had pursued since he came into office, with the exception of all that related to the Spanish war; but he would not have (lone all that was expectuxl ol him until he had redeemed the pledge which he had given to the Ca. tho]ic population of Ireland. (Hear.) Colonel TRENCH observed, that whatevgr the intentions of tht Catholic Board might be, their proceedings were mnost disastrouir ir Ireland. lie had looked at the aroccedings of that self.constiruited Parliainent, under its Protector O'Connell, withi great alarm. Tiiey bad ecenly rcommnde tha theCathlicpopulation in every part, of Irland houldgive very acilty o collection of tithes in kind Theinteprettionwhic lieput ponthis insidious proposi. ton as (s weundestoo thehon.membr),that it was intende-d te preenttheProestnt lery fom ettng nytithiesat all. Ho be. lierd tht th Catoli Assciaeonwihedto see Catholic sanpte. macy est'4blitthed in Ireland, aRd he was sorry to say that he', ha~ heard langliage in that house tendcing to a siniilar object. *Whtn ii was stated that the church establishment sliould follow th~7,,uura of population, it wvas impossible to snisunderst.nd what w~_ant. Alr. H. SUMINER supported the petition, and coniplainedIfftlie cobducL of the Irish Attorney-General in withholding an explantitior uiponi the legality or illegatlity of thecse most daugerous Catholic. as. sociations. MLlr. E. WA RRE expressed his surprise thiat thiis subject shiould hiave been taken up lin the tonie and iianner which had been adopted by those teho supported thte petition, as if there was nothing worthy of the consideration of Pairliatriont in that which was uncoinscionisly admitted by his hon. friend who prerented the petition,-that the Clatholic population of Ireland were so fe-el. ingly alive to the question of their religious riglits, that thete was was scarcely man, womnan, or child, among, thecr whio was hot able to couchi a petition to Parliamnent in proper terms upon that subject. Thie liouse wvould look with a very diffrent eve upon the ia,plied sense of that declaration ; and perhaps the read friends of I[reland wouldt shiortly seee peace secuired to-that cuntry byr -an equal and rigid application of the justice of' the laws to tire confosimr and downfall of factione, who were for the time allowed s6 usurp sonic degree of their auithority.- Ailr. BROWNL~OW,inrTi%ing to moive that the petition be iirinted, comiplained of the uncertainty, in,which they. were left as to tihe-opi. nions of Adminiistration, protesting that lie bath no mieans of gumss ng at whether or not the Governnient decided,upon the illegality of teeCathiolic Associationis ;or 'if they were divided, how niany, or who amiong, them, held to one opinion. Yet surely at -couldl not be preteuidect that this was a liglht question-that it was not one of the graVest impQrtance....seeing that it involved a doubt as to the legality of these Catholic assodiatiotis, whose proteedings and language covered wiEth the most extravagant abuse all the Protestants an the state, of wvhatever denomination from the heir presump- tive of the Crown downwards. And here were these associations now left to the revelry of mischief, which was allowedI to them by the doubts of Pa-rliament andI the Government as to0 whetlher they w~ere legal o.r not- The Irish Attorney-General flatlv refused to give any opiniion upon the subject. He wvas re-aty enough to tell1 him, that if he would give him the necessary information, lie (the right lion, and learned Attorney-General) w,ould do his best to en- able the strong arm of the law to reach him. (Air. Browmrlow.) He (Alr. Brownrow) was wrilling to give the right lion. and learned gent.,. out of the house, all the inforniation wliceh lie possessed as to Orange Institutions, convinced as lie was that the more those institutions were known, the more they would be admired, and the sooner they would pass from under the cloud of prejudice hitbih had for a timne obscured tdiem. BUt the right hon. anid learned gentleman would not be prevailed upon to give iris opinion upon the legality or ille- gality of thoseassociations ; and ttie Protestant gentry wvere to be left exposed to all the hazards which the iirritation and exasperation inci- deir to struggflesof this naturepro'Juced. How was this ? Was it deter- mitid tat relnilshouild 3lways be preserved as a sobject for living dissection, upon which every man in Ipowver was at liberty to cut an carve and hack at his pleasure? The rightbhon. gentlenoan and the Government might still persist in withho'lditng an opinion. Still he did not dlespair but that an oninion mighit be got at,- notwithstand- ing, Uy a course wliich would render it equtally efficacious. Time right hon. gent. said that he' was no admirer of left'b.alr1ded justice- he had nohesitation in pronouncing0rangeassociations'illegal andini threatening him (M1r. Browulow)wtthpeais of the law for avowing hiraself an Orangettian. u ewudutpooa~uo tire Catholic Associations,-notawrdnoahitoudleeotd from any AMinister of the 66vernetaantterlglt,tog the Orange institutions were thraeebihteterr ftesw ay, andt with terroirs beyond. 'theThus', against the sii ftecn stitution. Was this left-handed justice or was i o? Wsi any ting ike ustic, tht at,th ery samne time Ithe right hon. gentema shold efus togireeve anopinion upon the 'legality of Mlr. PLUNKETT offered a word in explanation. In the first place, he threw himself uipon the candour as well as the discretion of the house, if any honoiirable gentleman cculd fairly assumne to himself a righit to press upon him, as the honourable gentleman seemed inclined to do, for his opinion, who wrts the public prosecutor in Ireland, upon a doubitful poiht of legal Vropriety. The very last sentence of the honourable gentleman s speech took away aUl such Tesponsibility from him. The hon. gentlemnan showed' that the Catholic associations were acting improperly, per- haps dangerously. But still the hon. gentleman doubted, wvhilethley were certauily violating the spirit of the constitution, if th ey hadl not contrived to cheat the letter of the laLw. What was,there to make it improbable tbhathe'(ML)r. Plunkett) baa not, arrived attlIrevery same conclusion? And if-he had reached that conclusion, could he be bound on that accounit to e~ome and complain-to the housejalleging that the Catholics had not violated the letterof tlhe law-that he could wish they had doie so-Lbut tharthe would do his best to prosecute them notw;ithstandiiig? WVould that have been -a wise course for him to hiave adopted ? He said that which he had 3aid,as he thought, expressively eniough alreadly-that thal CafiholicAssodations oughit to he irarrowly ivatchedl. He- 'pledged himself-if,, indecd, the hiouse could require a-. pledge from -him upon a matter wlInch was pare of his sworn duty,-that, if he found therm trans-. grainL in amaner which, in pioint of law, could be distinctly and clearly, miade mianifest to the cognizanceo ulcjsi,h wrould not shrink from' thie performance of that duty; anid no one who heard Ihim and knew tirn thoroughly, couild conscientiously believe that he wosild be ever found .to shrurik from it. As to his geneal pimmon f Caholc Asocitions, he disliked thiem-not onlyas e dd Oan" AsSciaion~ bcaue they were inimical to he vlue ashigly s te pace f ielad, he uccss f the Ro- selve-s be mistak-en; but the efrects of their conduct were mnore cal- culated to postpone the objects for whiels they were desirous than - all the violent and op en cilbrts of - their enemiies. But having rid himself of those which he considered as dangerous aLuxiliaries, he was not to be induced or impelled b' any pressuire of observation .which the honourable gentleman could apply, to give ils opiO!i upon the legality and ilealt of their institution; but,'aiemeaning himself in the very same mannfer itsif not.one word of thisdiscusstOlS had arisen, he claimed to be left as tos the duties of hiis office to time free exercise of his discretiont. Mlr. CANNING, though trot bound to pay-any attention to.the call mnade upon the miinisters of his AMajisty's Governmecnt, was anSiouS, to exempt hinselftfrom any blame. Tisehonotirable gentleman had disappointed him, inasinuch 'as'that he-had produced no specific; sub- stattitls'tsibjeet upon which afi opDinion icoLuld be expressed onfe waY Or the other, as be(Mr.6Cnning) hadi reasoni to expect. He did notaLgree that any gentleman had a right, uponi tlie niere formi of presentinig a petitoloi, tO call on tIme mdinister's of his Mlaj esty,'8 gG -enuL, to raise and discussi a question conniected with the weigh et r.Lir of the emire.'He, fr one,wouldnot 'dnrietha obliggati~hH 'hed, n te cntrry,tha suh acuse asfuill of inconveniMene. The mtion-which.the un. gntlean, mae,, however, was merel that'a peition shoul beFlloe to lie on the tabl. T 'tat h cold aveno' bjetiu li e would' not have objected, had the honourable gendeman proposed to reter the 'petition to the Jriash commrittee -now sitting up sta irs,- reserving any tIhing which hre might have to sayupon the whole matter until it hadi been made the subject of a pagetoclar motion. But of aUll tings which could he asked of 'the adkniru tration of a goverment in that house, surely tie mostimproper would be that of requiring them to 13y down the law to the housec to demand a legal epinion of them wherethe law was only supposed to be indefinite, was srely the most mrristaken notion of their - functions which could be conceived. He hoped that when they did offer their ooinious, they would alwayabe expressed in a manner-which wouild cai For his own part, he sought ito more of t respect fo therhou of the station which he had the honour to repc in considerant, than might be claimed as well by any other niember of-Parliament. Out of that house it wouldhbe his duty, in doubtful eases of an ordi- nary character, to consult the 1 w elficersof theCrovn. Though he was free from any responaibility as to directing the oninions of the house- upon such -a point, however, he couli have had nO difficulty in cxVressing his opinion genermlly upon the character of these associations. But the most difficult of all duties which ever could devolve upon a Government, was that exer- cise of prudence arid -firmness which was required of them by the use to which free institutions were occasionallv app'ied, and the feelings and expressions to which those institutions ave rise. There was the iiice question to decide, whether success in tne end would re- trieve all the hazard of a conflict-whether there was not more dan. ger.in a strenuous opposition to things of no lastinig importance, than couldheincarred by passivenessand forbeatance-vwhetheeithestror,g arm of thelaw could effect the whole oiject aimed at; or, falling.tn, do tbat, if tle first endeavour would still be deemed wise and expe. dient-.arhether, inl short, there would not be more danger, and ir. finitelymore of ulterior evil. to be dreaded, by having to come oi; et Court defeated, anfollo*edby:th einsolekt triumph of a party; ulheMaY too little submissive to rule, than could be apprehendled from Passing by an evil destinied from its VerY natUre, arid the agents ea~'raged in it~ to sink intor speedy insignific Tnee. : Then, if t~se ophinbanef ministem shGould be, after the most faithful slelibera. 140ii stbe tarewvas no law for the case,another question wvould inter- POSe itsal...eught they to apply to th legislature to enact a law ? It could by no Means follow that the house mnu%t deem it 'eit-e to Create a law, for the case. In that, again, they must be determined by cir- eumsttances,mroving in their deliberations wisely, cautiously-tim-id. ly, he had almost said-..not timidly as to the mere sense of danger, but in the comparison betweenk exigencies of the period, and the pro- babilities of futnre and contingent -daugers. As. at present advised in his own mind, he certainly would gi - no opinion upon the ap- Plicability of the existing law; neither wvould he be tempted by any thing wzhich the hon. gentL mighrt may, to go into a discussion upon one of the gravest subjecm~ which could be agitated in) that house. It was not necessary for him to express any opinion after this upon the Catholic Associations, which weTe always mnore dangerous to the interests of the Catholic body thatn to those of the country at large. Wishing well to the peace of Irelanid, but doubting, from the temn- Pea r Inwhich thehonourable gentleman had brought forward the pe- titian, that any thing which could occur in thie present discussion wotuld bei found conducive to that end, he earnestly wished to see aL c9ziclusio put to it; and with that view could hiave no objection to the referring of the petition to the committee sitting upon the dis- turbances in the tollth of Ireland. The SPEAKER said, that the lionoiurable mnover biad aDplied to hisn for advice upon the manner ir, which this subject should be broughit forward, and he hail particularlv inquired if, upon setting dlown hLis namre to present the petition, be was .at liberty to follow that up by a nmotion for referring the petition to a commiittee. His answer to the bonoi,wable gentleman had been, that setting aside any consideration of the sessifinal order, which gave precedence on some days to motioms on others to orders of the dav, and also the cuistom of Parliament, by whiich members bound themselves to give notice of considerable motions, there was nothing in the practice which ab. tOlutelY' required any gentleman to abstain from making a particu. lar motion, merly because fie had nlot given the usual notice. But be had informed the hanourable gentleman at the same time, that having been, so consulted, Ire conceived that it would be the duity of the person who had 'the honour to fill the chair, not to suferthehose o e tke bysuprie.And the question would the be whthe hecold tlo thse hohad conifonmed to the sessona orerad th cutomof he ouse to stand in a worse con- ditin wth espet t th ordr o thir riotions, because of any othe meber ho ad ngleted uchcoinpliasnce. His opinion therfor was tht li cold nt d jutice to all parties, if he were not to postpone the motion ofte hon. gentleman so given until the orders of the day were dispoe of. Mr. CANNING was only, desiros to show his willingnessto have thae petition referred to the committee, and did not mean to speci'fy any particulpr time for doing it-much less to infrinige upon theusual practice of the house. Itir. ABERCROLI1BY coultd see no objection to referring thte Petition to the committee immediately. MVr. PEEL had prepared himiself' to support the miotion for referring 'the petition to the comfmittee on the disturbances in the ecuth of Ireland, and coaild by no means wish it to be supposed that he underrated the importance of the subject netiw brought forwardi by his hon. friend. M1r. IVI. FITZGERALD cond6nined the course of proceeding ~~ttpted by the hon. member for Cambtidge, in making use of h is cW.ttfon in that house, to point out with opprobrium and by nausie an individual who was one of the suitors to that house for justice. The hon. gent. ought tn know that there was tianger in continuing the ,oppressions of the Roman CathoIie nobility and gentry, which, if it did not go to the extent alleged by the hon. gentL of separating Ireland from the emp~ire, did certainly mnake it probable that this mnostt respectable body of the Ir!sh population, tinding that there was no redress to be expected at home, would tak-e a final leave of the countrv, and seck the protection oi'a government more friendly to themn. As to the expressions which the hon. gent. had applied to " Lawyer O'Connell," they were not warrantable either uipon. the ground of Parliamentary courtesy or Parliamentary practice in do. bate. That person was a man wvho had been commended in his heatring by one of the best Irish Judges, as an advocate of the first professional ability; he was a gentle- man by educationi and profession; be possettied consid~erable property, andi was altogether unlikely to profit by the dis- turbance-, of his country, as the honourable memiber had al- ltaged. For his own part, he entirely disapproved of uising such expressions to a gentleman out of doors, wvhose only offence here was the share which h'e hadl in the petition to Parliamnent, and who could have no equtal opportunity to defend himnself. He recoin. mended more caution to the honourable gentleman, and those who tided with himi, inthe language which they used towards the Catho- li oeltoncifrelnd and he could not but express his surptise had at one time honoured the Catholics withi his support. Colonel TRENCHI admitted that he miight have (lone wrong in naming Mlr. O'Connell, because lie mighit, by a little Parliamentary race, havev as socccs4dully denounced his prac icesi withoHt ii. As to anythirg whmch he had before uttered, he would not retract s word of it. The greater the talents, property, andI consequence of that individual, the greater were the resources of that cunning and power with which he inflamed the passions of thie Irish lower orders, and t he more mischiievous mutt hie be regarded in that elevated station whici hec assumed, and from which it was the duty of every man who regardrd the welfare of Ireland to bring him down. As to lils own couduct, it was true that he hail made sacrifices at one time on behalf of the Ca'tbolies ; but that was when be was fresh from col- loge, with his head f'ull of' general principles, and his heart elated wieh lively and generous sympathies. An actual residence amaong the Irish RLoman Catholics had painfullv wrouight a change in his opinions, to which the hon. menmber for Queen's County was still anxious toattuch blame. le had altered his mind upon tlatsubject, be- cause he foundi that the Roman Catholics were ignorant and bigotted --in miserable subjection to the opinions of their priests, end that thecy might be wrought up, and were frequently wrought up, to his cer-tain knowledge, to thie perpetration of the most direadful crimes from superstitious instipation. The evils of landlurdism could nor bez attributed to him, for be was a constant resident on his estate, astkpr as circunisitances would permit ; and in regard to the comfort and welfare of his tenanitry, he coutld safely challenge the hon. mermber who had rebukedhhin to make an equal display. IST.C.HUTCfl1NSON~ complained of the unqitalified libelswhicht the hon. gentleman heaped upon the Roman Catholics of' freland. After a few words from Str C. BURRELL. andl Lord MreLTros, A)r. BROWANLO 'R gave notice that he would to-morrow move to refer thie petition to the comnmittee sitting upon the disturbances in the south of Ireland. CATHOLIC C!L.1IMJS. Mr. BROUGHTAM p resented a petition from a great numiber of Romian Catholics of Ireland-a class of subjects much to be respect- ed, for aitigt that had occuarred to night from various quarters, not only for their vast numbers, their great and increasing wealth, but also for the influence whic'h they held in the opinions of their Pro. -t -tant follow-subjects of this country, and on no account could he re. seected more than for that uintsng atnd persevering confidenceewbicb they had up till this moment shown in the wisdom arid justice of Parliament. He deemned it necessary to -state the petition in the very language of thie petitioners, because he differed from them in much of what was expressed bY the language of their petition. In the first place, they expressed their gratitude to Parliament for the ,disposition wvhichithey thught they pereeivedto redtress tleiriwrongs. They complained, and he e~ntirely eoncurred with theem in this- they justly complained, that none of thepromisesheldoutto them at tbeUnion hiadbeen fulfiled: fontebdhlcluidcinbe remedied,northegrievousabuslesofthecorporatebodies been correced, norhad anycndeavourbeen madetorsesrreseve-.-eight-is of the people here-tofore depdivedof then3 to their civil rights On the contrary,the petitioners alueged that the Union had withdrawn the protection of the landlords, and left the thickestnumbers of the most wretched population known in the world to the caprice and crutelty of uiijust agentsi and the extortions of the meaner officers of the laws. lHe wis'hedi that it was is his power to nega,ive this statement of facts. Not that he believed that the TUnion created, it only increased the ev-us of absent landlords-it was not the primary, hilt, a considerably aggravating cause. Of tithes they loudly coniplsined-..notonlyas they were a direct tex ontbe food, the capital, and thelahourofthecountry, but also on account of their weight and injustice; and because this tax was payable, they complained shove all, to a hierarchy which insuted andI oppresed them. All legal redress these peti. tionets seemed to consider as perfectly hopeless. They called upon that house to look at the act-s of out e which had been lately com- miitted in almost every part of Irelafn2, and some of these they spe- cified, referrinig them to the exercise of that spirit of persecution and vexation which was constantly irritating the Roman Cathiolic population of the country. They then set forrth, that the religious faith to which they were conscientiously and unalterably attached was perpetually insulted by digilitaries end other clergy of the Protestant establishment.; andl that on a tate occasion in the city of Limerick they had seen a' military force called in to enforce against thens the prohibition of rights which had never been denied to thera even in the most barbarous times. The admninistration of juAtice in the courts of' law of Ireland was another subject of their comnplaints and petitions; anid they stated that in many 4districts of that kingdom,-.in the province of Ulster, parti- culariy,justice was denied in the most flagrant mnanner to parties entertaining: religious and political sentiments difierent from i hose whiclh were professeiid by a particular party; and that this was exemnplified not lonz ego in a case where the sob of a right rev. pre- late was concerned. (We did not bear the particulars of this case.) Tb7- submDitted, that in the north they bad no choice whatever ot obtaining justice in any eaese; for all power wias there lodged in the hands of persons of the samne particular patty; while in thle sotuth, 'the operation of the Invuerection Act lhad giyen rise to the dis- covery of varliOUS acts of oPpreasion that were rather to be chrceied as open violations ot the laws, than misdo. meanours : for the Proofs and Particulars of these acts they liumbly referred the ho0use to the proceedings of the magistrates <Seigeants Lloyd, Joy, &c.) in administering the Insurrectton Act ~yjer~e province of Ulster. Into these abuses they prayed that an sWAe1iry might be instituted, and such a change effected in the initer. na system, civil and politicl. of Ireland, that equal justice should he hereafter administered batween the Roman Catholics and per. sons of the Protestant and every other religious faitlh in that country. Btitt they feared, that while the Orange Association csantinued triumphant in the northl of Ireland, there was no chance <of the extinction of the Prs _i_ifr -_-_L gmyPh;lhretlhishh1en A aifrencs ewen h presen fessors o ifferent religious faiths; and while (but this, it was aaded, they believed to be a false and unfounided imputation) the heir presumptive to the throne of these realms was pointed out as patroniLzing with his coruntenance that association, they fairly told the house that it would be vain to expect that Ireland could ever be any other than a country of annoyance and of opposition to his government, anti of the Most serious danger to them and the prseiyof his Majesty and his dominion& They finally praeds that this house would take measures to reform the present establshiment of the Protmetant Clergy ip Ireland, to inamine the procezntra of a mnost powerful but utilawful association, banded wgether For the most unjust h snd illegal purpases; to exclude suct persons as were members of it froni the service of the Irish Govern. efnt; to disfranchrse the great bulk of the Irish po ulation ; and to p ffect the speedy and unqualified emancipation ofhis Majesty's Roman Catholic isubjects. (Hear.) Now he (Mlr. Broughami) had already stated, that it wsnot hisdfcrLUe toagreet h ith the petitioneh in tome of the sentiments theat wiere expressed in their petition, as far as they were mateters of opinion, nor to all the prayers whlich it put fo'rth. That whilc he thus differed ioa tome respects from the petitioners, he coueld sy now, as he had told them before, that, tough he wouldl nor support those sentiments and prayers to the extent and in the form in which they were put, he yet felt it to be bitt fair to declare that he was fully impressed withi a deep sense of the inijuries they hail received, and of the natural, n,t to sa-y, inevitable contequencesof the sybtem whiich lhatl been pur- suedwit resectto tem.(Rea.) e might regret that they, had push ed theirreprasentationsand their praersofar: itmightpossibly be lle'ed that therewvas something 5not, indeed, in the manner noryst in thei'angtsagein whict their pebtiton was $et forth, but) in time general tone that pervaded it, which looked rather like the substitution of a demad bOr the eXpressions of complaint. But before Parliament asdmitted and determined that guch a distinction did exstefr they sufiered judgripent, toga, fortb,(to the extgnt tbht .tle. expiews.] isfoid of ihelr'4pprob,ation - 6r' disapproval of.- the petition. -nightl be suppcsed to' infer thatijudgment) -i the! case--of seven-' eighths-of the people of -Irclana, it'beboved the- house to. remember that the experience of our timnea more than that of aniy former.age-. the xpeiene o wht ws eerydaypassing aroutid.us-demon. atraselthi grat oliica trth,'tht i th goernentof a large bodyof eopl thre as n oe cetai wa of reaingulnreason- abledemndstha thelon an opressve se f ureasonable powe. (ear,hea.) le wll rmemered what was saidl on one occsio, i th oterhoue o Paliaen, by a celebrated noble- man, dsiguished for his talents and experience, and his acquiaintae wvith frish affairs. but by nothing mnore distinguished than by the geat sagacity arndbservation whichbe manifested when- ever he spoke in Parliament, andi the undeviating rectitude and noble patriotism thiat govrened all his public actions--he meant the late Duke of Devonsbire, who, upon a question, siot dissimilar from this, called upon the legislature to bear in mind the Roman adage, " Bis dat quii cato dat," anid the substance of hi&speech was 4ca wiish zhat thiey m-ight not at somne fuiture Rhay see inihernselves the melancholy proof'of the converse of that pTopidaition by dtiscovering that they who had refusea to give early-ba(t.-fived until it was too late, to give at all." If to the petitioners, on the present Occasion, the house meant to give anything in the, a ape 'of relief or redress, let thema not refuse to grant it because it was thius asked for-because the application was couipled with these strong representations (couched as, they were in recpectfusl language), or because they were apprehensiive that the languange of their petition mtight assum-e the tone of demantl. Let them niot, at any Tate, commit the weakest as well as the sibliestof all errors which could disgrace the policy of an enlightened go- vernment, by refusing to do justice to those who had for years coni- plained of its denial,on accou'nt of the manner,or the aceidenualfornm, in whichi it wvas now solicited by them. The House of Commons should niot be satisfied with any such unwiorthy motive for refusing to li-teni to thre peritions of the Irish people, or to withhiold such re- dress as they could affiard. He moved that this petition) be brought up. Gleneral (IASCOYNE wished to ask the honourable and learned member whether he had read the petitioni ? There mighit be some matter in it, whtich had perhaps escaped Iins eyi sit present, and was not perfectly respectful (as we understood the gallant officer to say.) MVr. BROUGHAMl had initended to have already st-ated that he had read the petition, and that there was no expressiOn whatever in it, from beginning to end, which was in the slightest degree disrespectful t'o the house. (Hear.) Hle ptesumed that hie liaa not made himself understood, for he had already observed that the petition was couched in language of even cautious respect to the housie. That hie did not concur in all the prayers of the petitioners was very trtte, hut somne honourabre menmbersl might entirely concur in them. Certain be was, that there was nothing in their language to taise even the shiadow of a doubt whecther the petition could he received. Colonel FORD (as wve were informed) conitended that justice Was pro,perly and impartially administered in Ireland, both in the higher and the inferior courts of law. Mlr. HOMMIE SUMINER said a few words that were enitirely Iinaudible in the1 galry Alr. BROIJG HgaM believed he had twice statedi that there was nlot a single disrespectful syflable ini the petitioii. The hiouse wouild Observe, tinit in regard to that very delicate topic-the imputation that the presiumptive heir to the thirone was an Orangeman or the patron of Orangemen-the petitioners staited they believed the charge to be false and unfounded. In saying this, 'be must beg to enter his pyotest, however, against being xTtnderstood to deny the right of these petitioners--not to mention millions of others who might make the same kinid of appeal to the house-to denounce, if they thought fit, the conduct of the heir presuimptive to the Ugown, or of any other Englishman whatever. The Petition was then brought up and read at lengthi by the clerk2 the reading occupying him about 20 minutes. Besides 'the several matters adverted to by Mir. Brougham, in Isis speech, it comnplained of the hardship of their being called on to contribute to the exor- bitant pay of a clergy, by whom the petitioners were always insulted- Of the evils of the tithe system, whichi wasi described as having Occasionled all thie insurrections that had agitated Ireland for the last hundlred years-of the very improper language USed Of anld towards theta, both by the prelates and ibeinferior clergy of thePro- testant establishmnent in Ireland-and of the manner in whiclh their faith and their commiunity were treated in the charges and sermons ef Protestant dignitaries, soine of whom received from tiem not less than from 12,0001. to 14,0001. a year.-The petition was ordered to be printed. smiTH, THE MIISSIONARY. MIr. IIROUGHAI) presentedi several petitions from congrega- tions of Protestant dlissenters iii Kendal andl elsewhere, raigthat inquiry might be institutedl into the case of the late Mr. Sriith~, the missionaryv. The hois. and learned gene. presented another from Drogheia~, praying for an alteration in the corporation laws. ISLE OF MAN. Mlr. BROUGHAk It postponed his notice of presenting a petition fromn the House of Keys, Isle of Mlan, which stood for Wlednesday iiext, until next Monday se'nnight. Lord MllILTON presented a petition from else *Vest Ridinig of Yorkshire, praying for the abolition of negro slavery, and another petition fromi SaddIleworth, in the sanme couznty, against the pendin-g game laws' amer.dment bill. GAMTE LAWS' AMENDMENT BIfLL. Mlr. STUART WORTLEY moved the reading of the order of the day fortbe hotise resolving itself into a committee to take into further consideration the report on, this bill. Sir JOHN .SHELLEY addressedthlehous-e, but we coDuld collect nothing of the hon. baroncets speech (owing to the confusion prevail- ing in the gallery), excepting the concluding part of it, in which he mnoved as an amiendment, "1that the order of the day be read this ir ASHETON SMI ITH seconded the amendment and ex- pressed an earnest wish that the bon. member for Yorksfiire might be prevailed on to withdIraw his bilL altogether. MVr. L-OCKIIART complained that the hon. gentleman in the recital of this bifllhad overlooked at least 20 statutes,- the objects or titles of which should htave been recapitulated. Instead of doing as hald been done with bankrupt acts, whenever the bankrupt laws had beeni alteced or amended, namely, reciting and consolidating then, anti then stating the new enactmnents, the hon. member's bill specifically repealed of all the numerous game laws now existing, so much Only as regardedl the mactees of possession and qualiflcation. Now, as it was no where statein in the bill what other parts of those preceding laws were to be stilt operative or what repealed, he (Mlr. Lockhart) could not conceive an act. if the hill should pass inito one, the extent and application of which could be more embar- rassing to the people at large, to thle Magistrates, o-r the judges. The honourable member having repeated his former objections to the principle of the bill, and remiarked on the danger of the clause per- mitting the sale of game, and the, sort of encouragement which such a measure would extend to the increase of poachers, expressed his intention to suipoort the amenidment. Mr. CRT W IGHT aid,that lthogh he was9 friendly to the prinipl ofthebill heshold tronly ecomen to his hon. fried, he embe fo Yokshie, ha xpedenc ofwithdarawing itat reset. H wasquit convnced fro theoppoition it had the session. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ te ouseo Mtr. W. PEEL opposed the bill, which. he said could be advan- tageous to no other persons thian. the poachers and the poulterers.He was as willing an any man could be that every, iniducement shouild be Offered which could have the aefiec of keeping country gentle- mnen on their estates, but he did ntot believe that 'the inducements they already possessed would be in any degree increased by tels mneasure before the houdse. MrT. Ii. TWVISS also opposed the bill. There cotuld be no doubt that the restrictions whiich it adided to those, already too numterous, of the pr,esent system of game Iaws,would couhiderably increase crime amnong the-lowier orders of the people. The provision which it was prpsed to make against this consequtence of the saeasure by legaliz- ping the sae of game would be found, inefficient. Besides, if t'hat Provision were more operative that he believed it would be, its9 tendency would be to degrade the country gentlemen into 'hucksters of game, and he was therefore sure that it wvould never bee sanctioned by them in practice. ThrI ee however, athier and more serious Objections to the meas uhre, which deservedl the particular attention of Parliament. It was admitted to be a subject of regret that the existing gtaie lawrs were too severe, and their enforcemnent often evaded on thiat account: but what did the bill before the lhouse propase to do ? -Not to abate that severity, but to increase it to an unreasonable degree. At present, persons charged with offimefes under the gamne laws were held only to) have commnitted a sniaemeanour; hut by the proDosed bill their offence Vas made at once a felony. Now, bail migh't be tenderedI by tels patty accused, andI no mnagistrate, however zealous for the pireserva.. tiOn Of gamne, could or would refuse to atccept it: by the bill before the house, haowever, the liberty of the accused was at once forfeited, and he had no mealns of'regaining it beforetrial, except by the expen- sive method Of a writ of habeag cotplie, the expense of wih ol inaeitsohegeamajority ofpertsonstatken up-uder thebiil,areme-dy rather in theory than in practice. By this alteration in. the charac- ter of the offence from a simple msisderneanour to a felony', the cul. Prit would lose the privillege.~..o him an iavaluable one-of address.. ing thejurv:; and thius the general operation of the bill would be t'o increase the offence, and the opportunities of comamitting it, hl the means of defence would be curtaie an,iIihd h wbale laws, as they stood., were too often the causge of ill-will between the land-owners and the peoplein their several neighbourboods -,the pro. posed bill, so far fromi removing, this, would add to the prejutdices which were createdl by the circumnstance Of those who were most in- terested in the Preservation of gampe having to adminishter 'the law, resPecting it; and by legalizinig tIme sale of gamne woild fix the ins.. Putation of still miore Palpably interested motives 'in the country gen- tlemen. A MEBE fromn under thegzallery, on the MUinisterial sideof the hos, OPPosed thie bill, we believe ; but the noise which prvaIled itheOhouse, from the frequent cries of "Question, an- h o tone invwich nthe hon. gent. spoke, prevented us fromhenrin th n- ture of h'is ObjLeceeonshe.a. Mlr. A1I1,1 MAY suipported the bill. As,. JONu. ~~5?lOjce to th ls Iywih esn shoo0ting without a.quahification were sentenced to th'e inf-amous pEu- nishment of hard labour. It mightbheapplied to persons whoseca. racter would resider suds) a punishment ttie most qrievous thla' could he inflicted, anti one totally inadequate to the olffence. if thlis wrere struck out, lhe would, although lie saw man obetostotma sure7 vote in favotur of' the bill,bth ol Joctconset to sthe peass in isitpresetlpe - W.Secretary PEEL said, that having before expressed his opinion on this subject., he should. occupy. little of eile time of the house at present. The anqeto was, whether it was expedi- ent or not to attempt toatrtepeet sys'-m. He did not know whether his honourbl fin,temmber I'or Yorkshire, was die- posed to accede to th ugsinwic had been moade to himn of wtithuirawing lsi bil fo h rsn esion, but after the olijections whiich he haid heard,le(r el a induc-ed, if his bonourable- frierid did not adotta uesonto vote for its re-comrnicstal. The bill had at lsIt teer'ofrviing fortwo eat evils of the present system-..th oebprmtig the sale oFgame, wilhout which he was convnce no Vermanent improvement could be hoped for; and the other, byaltering the absurdity with respec-t to the qua.. lification. As the lawv stood at present, a gentlemani of large pro- pert,y, with six sons, could not qualify more'tbati one of them, and yet ne was called upon to enforce the very laws which his own famnily set the first example of violating. This was an anomaly the existence of wliceh ouight not to ble permitted. ObjEctions hiad been raised to ille severity of the measure, bust was it forgotten that the present law was also severe, andI that it was the cause of crime, the quantity of whiceh the bill proposed to diminish? H e, ho-w- ever, thouiht it would be better that the measure should for s.he presnt e pstpned,andundr .hiaimpression ha repeated his intntin t voe fr is bingre.omitted, if his honourable fried (r. S Wotle) shulddetemin topress it. Lord i ILON toughtthe ousehad othing to do with tke rtlcc hic th bll igh hae,eiter s s te increase or the di.. raintio ofgam. i wasnot~hedut ofParl.iamrent to provide tbr the amusements, of coantry gqntlemen, but to legislate for the preseriati6n -oftte ifiorals, of- the cu'n'try, and'lethhe armiseniews sliift for themselves. The main efrect of the biU before the honse would bCto nultiply the number of persons interested in the preservation of game,- aicd therefore to multiply the number of pro. secutions foroffences committed against it. Hedeprecated the seve- ritz of the punishments which it provided for those offenes, and recommended the repeal of the prohibitions against the sale of game. If this were done in the first instance, it would be easy to add such regulationsas might be necessary. That otherregulattons would be necessary,he vas quite convinced, because to legalizethesaleofgame would-be to cause endless litigation among the neighbouring pro- prierors of land, who would be alwayls disagreen about theproperty of the bares and partridges which crossed their estates. He was will'ng-to suspport any bill which sbould take offlthe restrictions on the sa2e of game; and so far as the bill before the house did this, he approved of it: but he was compelled to oppose many of itsrother provisions. Colonel WOOD said a few words in favour of the bill. air. S. WORTLEY defended the bill, and obscrved, that it would be useless to ltgatize the sale of game, unless game were made property. If the sense of the bouse should-be against the measure, he was notdisposed to press it; but if it should be rejected, he would give notice of his intention to bring it forward at an early period next session. The house then divided, when there apbeare For the original motion, 1031 For the amnendment, 120. VaJority .. . . 17 The bill w-as consequently lost. M*e understand that while we were excluded front the gallery, dir. S. VoVnTT.-Y gave notice that he would, at a very early day in next session, move for the re- introduction of the bill. LAWV MERCHANT AMENDMENT BILL. On our return to the galery, we found the house discussiug the question that this biUl be read a third time. illr. SCARL,ETTopposed the measure. llir. ROBER'I'SON supported it. Mir. J. Sa11TH considered the bill as a necessary arid much desired amendmeint to the act of last session. If it were not carried, it would be lmost impossible to carry on foreign business in foreign consignments. After a few words from Mr. FARRAND in support of the bill, the question was put, and the bill was read a third time and passedl. SAVrING BANKS- BILL. On thje niotion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, this bill was recommnitted. 'the right hon. gent. then proposed the intro- duction of some clauses-one was to prevent the personalliability of trustees-and the other went to alter the time for making up the ac- counts from a rmonth to a year. After a short discussion, in which Mr. MuBtE, Mlr.TREaxIkYXE, M,lr. BrIGHT, and Mlr. GipPs took a part, these amendments were agreed to. Several other amentlments were then agreed to, and the house hav- ingresumed, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. BANKRUPT LAWS. On the third readlingof the bankrupt laws' amendmentbill, Mlr. LOCKHART brought up a clause for empowering the commissioners,in cases where gross fraud appeared on the part of the bankrupt towards his creditors, to report the same to the Lord Chancellor (with a copy of his last examination), wlho might there- upon disallow his certificate: which was agreed to, and the bill read a third time, and passed. The committee on the East India goods bill was postponed to this day (Tuesdav.) General GASCOYNE opposed the third reading of the hidesand skins bill. After souse discussion, in which Sir R. Ffnoussour, Alderman WOOD, and MIr. IJUSHINGTOx took part, the house divided, when thereappeared For the third reading, 34 1 Against it, I I Majority, 33 The bill was accordingly read a third time, and passed. '[he other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at a QUARTER PAST TWVO O_CLOCK. ___ HOUSE OF CO3MMO.NS. MONDAY. MIAY 31.