House Of Lords, Tuesday, ...
The Times, 1824-03-03T00:00:00

I PARLIMNENTAR rA f.TEL LLTGEANCE. Earl SPENCER presented a petition from Mcllingborough, in Northamptonshire, praving for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves in the West Indics. The subject te which the petition related, his lordship observed, was one of the greatest importancc, and hehoped that it would meet with the serious consideration of that and the other house of Parliament. He moved that the petition he laid on the table and printed1.-Ordered. A PPEALS. lIord KING wished to call their lordlships' attention to a subject which appeared to him to he of great importance. Hc found that his attendance was required in that house lor hIcaring appeal causes at the bar. Now he wished to learn, from such of their lordships as were better acquainted with the subject than he could pretend to be, whether he was, in consequence of this order, which required him to hear causes, also bound to vote on them ? It he rnust vote, he was also dlesirous of knowing whether, in the case of his happenibg 1 to withdraw himself before the hearing of a cause should be con. I cluded, he would still be obliged to give his vote upon it ? It thcse inquiiries should be answered in the affirmative, he would then be glad to be informed how he should act on a cause which was about to come on, he believed on Monday next. The cause to which he alluded was entitled " Connolly and wife," and had been heard before. For his part, however, he knew nothinig of it, and he must therefore beg for instrustion from their lordships hiew he was to vote. He liad no idea whatever of the case, and was most anxious to do no injustice either to Connolly or his wife. But would none of their lordships tcll him what he was to do? Was he to take a hint from somc one of the big wigs which their lord- ships occasionally saw rising a f'ew inches above the bar? Or was he to be directed by that equilateral triangle htat which lay there ? [looking towards the woolsack.] Or tnight he vote, as was one in some cases, without hearing any thing on the sub. ject, by proxvy ? Their lordships had, in tlicir wisdom, detemriited, that eacii peer was to hear only fractions of causes; but lhow was this to be recoociled with the node of voting by wholesale ? Now, if vote he must on the cas ef f" Connolly and wvife," lie hoped that their lor-Iships would put hiin in posscssion of the imeans of voting rightly. He should doubtless be furnished with the notes which he supposed the peers who had already sat on the cabe must have taken; for they were the judges, and it was the practice of judges to take notes oT the causes which were lieard before themi. Their lordships well knew the value which was placed on notes of judges and he would wish those taken in that house to be printed. if, how- ever, it should unfortunately happen that the peers who had heard this case of " Connolly and wite" had taken no notes. and yet that he would be required to vote on it, then he vould ITuoSt humbly beg of their lordships to be pleased to amend their order, and direct that all peers sitting on appeals should keep notes of the cases they hear. Thus their lordships would have be- lore them the wisdom and information1 of their predecessors, and the labours of the sitting part of the peers would enable those who had to vote, to pertOint their judicial fuictions properly. This new m*ode of hearing causes, he believed, had been invented for the pur. pose of ex.ed:ting the business of the house; but it appeared to him to ha-e only the effect of keeping away the noble attd learned lord whom be consi(dered the most efficierit judgc of' appeai causes. The noble and learned lord was a verv grcat friend of the church; but what would the rnoble and learned lord say to a rector, who, wishing to be relieved from the burden of his clerical duties, should get a curate to perform them fornhim, but instead of paying the cu- rate out of hiS own emoluments should leave him to be paid by the parish ? This would doubtless appear to the noble and Icarned lord a verv singulat arraugensent. Having put olne ecclesiastical case, he shouid, with their lordhips' leave, suppose another. MWhat would be thought of a bishop, or a clergymtan, :who should declare from his pulpit that a person had stated an uttcr falsebood ? What would the noble sad learned lord think of the reverend person who sbouId thius express himself respecting the character of another, in a place wlwrc what he said could not be answered ? He was quite sure that the noble and learnd lord would be the last man it the world to give his approbation to such conduct. IRELAND. The BarI of DARN LEY had to apologize to noble lords for the change he liad tltouglht it nece?sary to make in Iiis motion for suns- )roning the itouse. They were aware that lIe had given notice of his intention to bring forward on this day a very important and ex- tensive question relative to the state of relaid ; but as be.could not at the present time expect the assistance of nmany noble lords jriti. mately acquainted with Irish affairs, and as he had reason to IIOeD that those noble lords would be able to attend at a future period, he had resolved to postpone his motion. Another reason had also in- duced hbn to postpone it, wtichl was his wish to collect the most ac. estrate and ample informatban before he proaeeded to call their lord. ships' attention to the subject. H had intende(d to move this day for a great variety of papers tending to illustrate the state of lreland, but he would now cotnfine hinself to those documnents to the pro. (luction of vwhich he understood there would be no objec- tion. Thtough he would not then enter into any discus- sion on the affairs of Ireland, he boped he might be per- mitted to taiakc a few obserrations, It appeared from what had taken place elsewhere, that it was intended to take offthe bounty at present granted on the exportation of Irish linen-to take it gradually from the fine, but immediately frotit the coarse. Con- sideri=g the state of Ireland, this was a most important feature in the fnancial arrangement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the year, and he was surprised that it did not occur to Iiis Majesty's mittisters, that taking off the bountv on Irish linens, and especially so Suddenly off the coarse linen, iinust tend greatly to increase the evil under which that country laboured, which iwas the want of etu- ploynient. He thought that the same political considerations whiCls had last year prevented the removal of tthe duty on toreign linen, should have on the present oecasion saved the infant manuacture of the north of Ireland. I f the bounty were taken ofi the coarse linen, the inanufacture of which was but recently established, a great ad- dition would be made to the distrwssof tlie starring populauon. Here he could not help noticing an item of the public cxpenditure, as it had been arranged in another placc, in consequence of the receipt of part of the debt due to thts country by Austria. He had for- merly expressed an opinion, that not a farthing of that debt would be repaith. The sum received was called a" God-seitd," and he htad no objection to the term, but thought it would withi great ptropricty be continued, if the usmoney werc employed in rescuing the distressed population of' the south of Ireland from starvationi. In this way it would be mucl better applied than to Royal palaces, or building churches, to which objects, however, in as far they were ntecessary, he had no objectioii to the applicatioti ef public money. He believed, indeed, that in thc metropolis the power of hearing divine service was confined alitiost exclusively to the rich, and in Ireland the greater part of the Protestant churches were in a state of dilapidation. Hei must again express his surprise that the Austrian God-send was oat allowed to fall upon Ireland, instead of being applied in thtc way proposed by the Chancellor of the EX- celtquer. He mutust, liowevcr, again say that be bad no objection to building churches, if they were really wanted, and lie had always been an advocate for keeping Windsor Castle in repair, but wished that rio sum beyond what was necessary should be so expended. With regard to the papers he wighed to ohtain,he should now move for an account of all the sums granted by Pariasneist for public works, and for the employment of the poor in lrelant durng the last seven years; forsumsadvanced bywayof loans of Eixcltegu.bills or otherwise; the s8iupmsid oxthe presentmenu of grand juries, tie psymentsoutofthe consoIiad&'d nd,&c.Buthcdid notthlink he could aofulljusticetotbetaskhehd urhdertaken without stating the trath, and tbewhole truth,respeptitt theichurch establishmentof Ireland. He therefore intended to move br an account of the number of parishes and paishchurches in Irelald; the extent of the parishes; fhe number of faniliesXesidingia eacsh; thenumberof communicants in the established churcws ; tie number of Roman Catholic families - and other documnents tf this Itind. In moving for these pap-rs, he had no other 'iih that that of bringing under the consideration of their lordshipsthe readsituation of Ireland. The noble earl con. eluded by moving for lie papers he had described; and also that theirlordsbips be sumetoned for bMonday the 5th of April next. The Earl of JJIVE.1POoL intimated, that he had no objection to the motions now miie-by the noble earl; but he wished to say a word or two on some if the facts whicl had been alluded to in the observations with whith he preceded those motions. If their lord- ships were not aware)f the contrary, It might be supposed from wlhat had been statedby the noble earl, that no part of the public money was ever apphi, to the carrying on of public works in Ire. land. With respectt; the fncal arrangement for the year, it was true that the Chancel2or of the Exchequer had alppropriated a spe. cific sum in it to the bulding of churches, but did te noble earl suppose that any bodj vould therefore conclude that nothing was done for Ireland P Onthe contrary, very large sums had been voted for that country; andit was a singular fact, that Scotland and Ire. land were the only ptts of tlie United Kingdom to which grants of money for public works had recently been made. Thcre was no in- stance during the last 20 years of any such application of the public money in nland. '!here had, it was true, been advances by. way of loana of exchequer bills, but no Parliamentary grants for public works, except that for the building of churches. Ahe sumi granted shr Scotland within the period of the noble eail's motion, was 300,0001.; and for Ireland no, less than one mlUion. In short, no indisposition had ever been shown to vote money for public works in Ireland. On the subject of the Irish linen, he would say, that though scarcely any thing was more absurd than the gianting of bounties on exportation, yet it was a very diferent qestion the getting rid of such bounties when they exist. The export of fine linen being established. pru. dence required that the repeal of the bounty on it should be gra- dual; bu t there never was any export trade in the coarse Irish linen, which wvas merely a domestic manufactretc and consequently the immediate repeal of the bounty on it could do no hann. He thought it necessgry to say this much by way of explanation: as to the gene- ral question, he shouN reserve himself until the noble eal's niptaon brough: it under the consideration of the house, l Lsord KING was swsre there was no vant of grants of the public mone. There were Irish jobs, Scotch Jobs, and Church ijobs in abundance, but the most enormous job of aU was the 100,000]. a year to tbe Ir sh churches. The Barl of DAaNI4EY explained, after which the motions for papers were agriecd to, atid t.e leems were orlered to be sum- moned ibr the 5th of AtpriL The marriage acpamehdment bill was read a third time, and passed; and the other bills ont the table were forwarded in their re- spective stages. Mr. Hum t and othors from the Commons brought up a message, requesting a copy of the report of their lordships' committee on the petition of the Chamber ot Cominerce of Glasgow in 1820, and on the bill for the regulation of veights and measures. The report was delivered forthwith.-Adjcurned to Thursday. HnrrTXR OF LORDS. TUESDAY. MIARCH 2. NV.(;RO) ql,AVFS.;