House Of Commons, Friday,...
The Times, 1824-03-20T00:00:00

Mlr. azt bi bit, presentel a petition from the licensed victuallers of Bridgewater, praying for a reneal of the duty on their licences. Alr. TYNTE presented a petition from the inhabitants of the same place, praying for the repeal of theassessed taxes D3r. SYKEES presented a petition from the journeymen boot and shociiakers of Bradford against the combination laws. Mr. BRIGflT presented a sinilar petition from the journeymen shoemiakers of Bristol. ilMr. B ERNA T, presented a simailar petition from the journeymen shoemakers of Chatham. Sir T. LIiTHBRIITJIE prcsente.l a similar petition froi the journeymen slinemakers of Bath. The petitions were severallv reterred to the committee on artisans NEGRO SLAVERY. Sir JOHN ASTLEY presented a petition f'rom Aylesbury, prayiing for the gradual abolition of slavery in the West Indies Similar petitions were presented by Mr. CuRwES;, from Cocker- Mouth; by 31r. HON YWOOD, from seven towns itt Kent; by lr. C. CALVEFr, frOmn two parishes in Suffolk ; bv Mr. HALDIt%lAND, from Ciavering; antl by Sir T. LETIIBRIDGE,fromr Glastonbury; and were ordered to lie ots the table, and to be printed. Mr. DO VVNIE presented a petition frotn certain distillers in the county of Perth, praying that the same indttlgetice as bad been granted to lreland to import whisky into England, might be ex- tended to Scotland. He stated that Etsglisb agriculturists are nov enjoying grcat betrefit fromn the reduction that took place last scssion in the d`ttyon Scotchl spirits, as was evident from the immetsee quan- tities of barley daily importing into Scotland fron) Etigland , and if icottch spirits were permitted to be brought into England on such ternis as his Majesty's Gioverntnent thought proper, thc measure could not fail to be rnost advantageous to both cou!ntries, besides, in all probability, benefitting materially the revenue at any rate, it would certainly suppress, in a great degree, the immoral and dis- graceful practice ofsniuggling. Sir JAMES GRA HA:t presented a petition from the licensed victuallers of Marylebone; Ar. H. DAVIS a similar petition from Bristol,; fr. BYNG presented similar petitions from St. Pancras and Hounslow ; Mr. WiLso,; a sitnilar petition from the ward of Portsoken; and Mr. F. BUXTON; a similar petition froni Spital. fields.-Ljaid on the table. Mlr. A. CAMPBELL presented a petitioa from the silk manu- facturers of Paislev against the silk regulations bill. _Ur. S. WORTJLEY prenetterl a petition from] an individtial re- siding at Northallerton, agaiinst the county courts bill. Sir T. LETHBRtIDGE presented a petition from the wool ima- nufiacturers of Wellington, against the exportation of long wool. Mr. G. LAXM B presented a petition from the fishernien, fish- corersi, andl othiers of Dundalk atnd Dungarvan, against tite proposed reduction of bounties in their trade. Thie reduction sbould be at the least gradual, as the parties were taken bv surprise. The ho- nourable gentleman, in presenting the petition, expressed his con- viction that the mode int which Ministers proposed to elfect the reduction of these bounties would be productive of the r,nost se- rious and extensive miscihief to the poor fishermen of Ireland. Alr. SYKES was favourable to the continuation of thiese boun- ties, and supported the prayer of the petition. Sir ISAAC COFFIN thought that if the tiade could not be carriedl on withouit bounties, it was hot worth while carrying it on at all. He was inimical to the system of bounties altogether. Sir JOHIN NEUIP.QAT.houglst the house ought to contxdtr- whetlher they woaild keep down assiRrviitg Poul4ti6n like the door of many parts' Upon tlire io~t of freland2 by military force, or woul prmptthei inu~t~' b. eervspecies, of useful encourage. men. le taaulxt itmos cxraod3.arythat his Mlajesty's Ali. niser shul bae o lng~xttsec1tie buny,and then so sud. deny wthderwit Ifthefiseryinthe dsrtsaliuded to weri to ail 1,00 isheme an thir amiies would be reduced to starva. Tire CHAiNCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saidl, that wvith re spect to the bounties on fish, they were, in thct.of very recent origin T'he ground upon which they ha-d been properly extended to Ire. la-nd was, that it would be excecdingly unfair for Parliament te giebounties to t'he finshery in England, without giving to that oi Ireleand a corre-sponiding advantagKe. (flear.) It was f'elt by Go. vernment, that the), were bound in iustice to extend thie prnciple o! the bounty to the sister kingdom. liut he (the Chance or of thi Exchiequer) was at that very time so persuaded that the time minsi come when it would be proper to propose the cessation of' these fist bounties to Parliamient, that he would not consent to make thenr permanent; butt limited them, in respect to Ireland, for example, to acertain and definite numberof years. If' he was not mistaken, the Irish bounties would, in their natural course, expire next year and therefore he did not see how it could be said that the partie.' whiose case the honon rable gentleman had been advoc-ating wern taken by surprise. (Hlear.) He would adMit 2t the same time. that there was a good deal of reason in tire objections that had been taken as to inaking thisan instantaneous repeal, and in the sug- gestions whichi had been thrown out about the ropriety of proceed. in6 with it very gradually. The reneal ,indc ., he was disposed te think, should be delayed certainly for a little time. After a few words from M1r. CHAUk1LEs GRANT, Sir JOHN- iNw- PORT, and Mr. MAMERLY (who said that iF Ireland were not to be considered as an exception to the application of those general pricipes,upo whch he hanellr f the Exchequer seas pro. ceeingof ate inrepec tothetrae f this and of other coun- trie, hr ppultionmus strvethepetition was read, and laid Mr. ARIG peseteda ptiton romTaunton against negro SILK TRADE. Mr. HA14DIM1AND rose to present a petition from some of the mus't r esetable, and he might add the most intelligcn- silk ma- nufactuers in England. It related to the arrangetments w~lricli it was understood were to be made for carrying inito effect the propositions of thie Chancellor of the Exchequer in respect of this trade ; and it ? aed that no aterto miht be made in those arranigements. Her)The: petittioners espeialIly eprmaved that there might be no elay in their execution ; andl they~ added, that if this question of de'lay had not been agitated a esh, the whole of their hand, wxould have been by this time in active employmenit. They also expressedI their perfect satisfaction with the intention 'which hadi been avowed of allowing them a drawback- upon nianufactured articles. With regard to the suggestion about spreading the opera- tion of the new aIrrangemients over a certain number of vears, he (Mlr. Ealdlimanel))really thought it could)have no other effect but to paralyze the trade, and repress the energy whichi, if the rigt bon. gentleman's propositions were at once adopted, it would undoubt- edly nmanifest. Hie (M r. Haldimantl) had seen that morning some silk merchants, as well u.n the manufacturers, antI had expectedl to be intrusted withi a petition from them. He was, hiowever, enabledl to say, that the silk merchiants were favourable to the niew arrange- mentis. (Hear.) Mr. BARING would not enter Into any discussion upon the ge- neral questions to which the petitioa rer'erred, because aniore eligible opportunity would be offered in thecormmittee into wvhichi they should that evetiinggo From the speech of his hon. friend, however, the hosemh a've been induced to suppose that be was holding it up as the petition of a certain number of persons in favouir of the mea- sure proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchiequer. But no such thing; fo his hon. friend having favoured him with a sight of this petition, he (iftr. Baring) was enabled to state that there was no re- commendation of the measure. (Hear.) Wh lat he meant by "1 the" measure was, the free trade of'silk manufactured goods, of the goods of France coming into competitioa gith the goods of this country. Now, in support of this proposition, the petitiorn contained not a single word. The fact wvas he believed, that there were somne gen- demnen in the trade whio ha larTge stock's on hand, ard were the-re- fore very willing to put their handcs dleep into the public puirse. But he oul reeat tht nithr hd tis,nor any other petition yet presnte, poceeed romany eneal ody of pere:ons concierned in tiresil trde,whoapprver ofthegenral pricciples upon wliich Mr. UME hougt te hose wuldknow hlow to estimpate the argmen ofiri ho. ried (r. arig)whcn it remembteredi the petition, signeri by 12 persons, whichhi on. friend liad presented on the pIreceding night: 12 persons, lie (Mr. Huoie) believed, were all that couldl be foundl in the city of Londion to suibscribe it. (" Hear, hear," from Mlr. Barinig.) Those intlivirluals (at the heath of' whose subscriptions he observed the respectable namie of Mr. Hale) wished to keep up the Spitalfields monoponly. Nowe the petitioni which the hon. gentleman (Mlr. Haldimand) hurl presented to-night, lhad been sicgned by 33 of the principal mien in London, in ttire shiort saeof tw ors and a half; andl so far fromz their not being fa- vorble totw0he1o principles upon whiichi the Chiancellor of tihe Exchte- quer was proceeding in this business, they humbly prayed that thec measure p roposed by that right hon. gentleman m~ight be acted on wih slittle delay as p3ssible. (Hear, hear.) He (MIr. Hurne) had received a letter fromi one of the very first houses in L-ondon (Messrs. Wilson, Moore, anti Robinson), in whiich they, expressly said, that witha 'lie tihie which was now allowedl for the arrangements, the silk trade in London hrad nothing to fear from competition. (HJere the hon. gent. read an extract ftom a letter to that effect.) Mlr. BUXTON madle a single observation, that wvas inaud(ible in the gallerY. Mlr. G. PHILIPS was convinced, that uuder the new arrange. ments,the silk trade could well bear any competition; anti he expressed his belief, that the true alarrniits were the Eart India uionopolists, who, on a recent occasion, had prevented the confidential clerk of a nmost respectable house in London from proceeding to 1Bengal, to undertake the mran ment of a large silk businiess. itir. EDWARD'LLICE tated, that at Coventry, Maccles. field, Darl~y, and other manufactiuring towns in the coutntry, the silk interest was well satisfied with the intentions of the ChanclIBor of the Exchequer. Hle could not aagree, however, with hiis honour- able friend that the silk trade was able to bear comnpetitioni as well as lire seemed to think; for lie (Mr. Ellice) had reason to know that for many years past not only had looms been im-portedI from France, but Frencuimen had come over to work at theim They exceeded us in the manufacture and the dyinF. OR the question that the petition be recad, Air. EARING thought it uinfair in hiis hon. friend (Mr. Hlum-e) to read, in support of the propositions of the Chancellor of the Ex- chiequer. a letter from the only hiouse in London, in the silk trade. which had stoodI by the Gorernment in these propositions, wvhichi liad been the adviser of Governmient on this occasion, and which, it' it were fair to bring the private concerns of' any hounse into the ease, had, as he was informned, speculatedl largelv upon the consequences likely to follow from the regulations beis~carritl into effect. After a few wordls from MNr. 1IALDINAND, not audible in the gallery, Sir T. LiETHBRIDGE expres-sed a wish that the Chancellor of tire Exchequer should state to the house whiat was; Coc exact sunm wliichi tire countrv was likely to lose by the amount of thec draw- backs, S)nie hail fixedi it at 100,0001. , and others statedl that it would amnount to 800,0001. or 400,0001. Hfe was anixious thiat the real rumi tobe lost by the countryN sliouild be known. He, hra: appli- cations from the clothi manuf'acturers, whio were anxious that tire duty on their stock orr baird shiould also be takers off. It was unf'air niot to puit both parties on a sinnilar footinig withi respect to a reinission of duties. AMr. BRIGHIT was glad this suUjcct had been brought before the house. Tire woollen-trade were likely to suffer by- some regulations in prospect with re-spect to them, and he thouighitit was injustice to give an advantage to one trade by a remiission of duties, whichi was denied to another which hail equ'al claimst to it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERt said that tire pe- tition, before the house was on ttIr subject of tire silk trade, and ire did not think such an occasion was quite the proper Ltnme for discussing the question of the woollen trade. Wihenever thrat question should come regularly before the lirouse, lire would undert-ake to demonstate to the hon. memnbcrhimnsielf,thatthemeasurresproposed on that subject were just those which had been desireni by the wvoollen imanufacturers thlrenselves. As to the qure)tion oe the amount whichl the country would be likely to lose by tire drawback,s oni silk, he thought that ai greater exagger'ation cotnlni not be imagin- ed than to supprse that the country wvorild lose a miillioin, or one mil- linthree burded thousand pounds, by those drawbacks. I t wasq im-i possible tocatlculate such imatters uisto tireexactsruin. There might be a few thousands more or less titan what liran beeni stated on a for. nrer occasion, but it was qutite abstr(ir to suppose that it would aniorunt to any sumi near a million. Tire greater sumi was imiagined, on a supposition that there was a great qu-antity of raw sill, andt silk goods on hand, whereas it was contrary to all the princioles on wliich tire manufacturers condtucted thecir trade to belicee'that as a fact. They never manufacturedi for tire pur- posec of having a large stock by them. They were prevented by the constant fluctuations of fashion, and other causes. Thien it shouild be considered, that it was onlyv half the duty on tire raw article whichi was to be remiitted, and tWrat it was not to be allowed on ctit goodls. Takinig all these circumstances irito consjideration, he mighit state the cost to the country, by the reltirnisson, at 200,0001., or2.i0,0001., or perhaprs 300,0001. at most - but it was imipossible that. it would amount to niore, and with tfie activity in the trade whiich the remiis- sion would cause,tbat sum, would be more than repraid to tire countrv. After a few words fromi Air. BRIGHTr, Mlr. Aldermian WOOD) said lire was arrxious that the crairawback should be allowed on cut as well as uncut silk. Mlr. MUNDY said, that the silk-riranutactutrcrs of Derby wvere satisfied with the proposed regulations. Mlr. BARING said thecy were, because thiey werce throwsters, and were mnade an exception to tire general principles of those regu. lationis by the Cliarrcellor of the Exchcquer,who. in oppositioni to all his, owntprinciples of free trade, was not boldi enough to apply theiri to tat branich of the trade. After a few weorda frorii Air. EVANS and another hon. MEMBER, the petition was read, and ordered to be printed. AMr. W1. SM1 IT I-i presented a petition fromn the jourireymen shoe- Makers of Portsea, against the comnbination lawvs.-It was referred to the committee on artisans. Mlr. JOEIN SMIT'H oresented a petition from the Isle of Ely against negro slavery.-Iaid on the table. USURY LAWS. The commlittee on the usury lags' repeal bill wa3 postponedto this dav week. jilr. Aldernian THOMIPSON presented a petition from the silk meicers of Lonlon and Westminster, praying that the drawback on silk might be allowed on cut, as well as uncut pieces of silk. Mr. T. WII,SON briefly supported the prayer of the petition, vliich he observed was very just.--Tlie petition was readl. On thie notion that it do lie on the table Mlr. Alderman THOMPSON saitl that he would take an oppor- tunity, in the committee, of moving that the drawback be allowed onr cut pieces of silk not les than 1.1 yards in length. IRISH LINEN BOUNTIES. Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON presented a petition fronm the mer- chants of the city of Cork, praying that the bounties on Irish linens might be withdrawn. The hon. irneonber then proceeded ta point out the evils which would arise, particularlv in the south of Ireland, where coarse linens were manufactured, 'froni the repeal of those bounties, and expressed a hope that the Chiancellor of the Exchequer might seriously reconsider the subject. The petition was laid on the table, as was a bimilar petition, pre. sented by the same honourable member, from the merchants nf Cork, against certain NVest India duties. They were or .ored to bc printed. Mlr. H.. B.ENNET presented a petition frons a M1r. Grant, of Alargatc, praying for a remission of the sentences of those convicts who were sent on board the hulks from the Penitentiary, in conse- quence of the sickness which hai prevailed there.-Laid on the table. MUr. LITTLETON presented a petition from Fleet, in Stafford- rhire; against negro slavery.-Ordered to lie on thc table. - - '. ; 1 THE SILK TRADE. The CHANCELLOR of the E;XCHEQUER said, that as thie counsel who was to have addressea the house that evening was prlevented frooisi doing so by indisposition, he would propose that the house should resolve itself into a committee on the Silk till, in order that the blanks mighit be filled uP so as to render the bill intelli- gible. The counsel might be heard on the recommnittal of the bill on Mionday-, on which occasion the discussion migh1t also take place. On themotion of the right hon. gent. the house resolved itself into a committee on the bill. M r. Hl U lifE suggested that a drawback shoculd be allowed upon cut silks whien they were 30 or 40yards in lesagth. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declared that it was; not his intention to make any alteration in the bill, except such Aftr ashot onvrsaio, i whchMr. BATuNGu, Mr. J. Sacere, M. HADIMAD, M. Ess.sc, and M'vr. HERRI1aEs, partcipted th blnkswer filedup,thehouse resuimedl, the re- por wa brugh up an orere tobetaken into consideration on Mr.tIRGI{ gae otie, s w uderstood, (fo the noise occa- sione by sranges leving he galerypreventeduls frorn hearing' disincly, tat e oul ona utue ccasion call the attention of thehoue t th sujet o th reatinsof Great Britain with the COM ITEEOF UPPY.IRTIIMISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES Mlr. GOULBURN moved that the sum of 2,0001. be granted for thie support of the Royal Cork Institution. Air. HUAME opposed the grant. Mr. C. HUTCHI INSO.N supported the grannt. Thet institution, he saidl, had been p,rotluctive of great benefit to that part of Ireland in which it was placed. Mir. S. RICE said, that when the grant was first proposed in 1806, Governmient had announced that it should not he continued long. Sir J. NEWIPORT thought that the benefits of the institutionl should not be confinedt to the city of C-ork alone. Mir. 1'I. \VIrLLIAMISopposed the vote. Mr. PEEL felt the force of the objection to thte principle of the grants, on the grouind of their damnping local excition ; but there was a difference between originating suchl grants and continuing them. Mlr. WILLIAMIS was surprised to heat that Cork, whiich he th'oughit was the first trading towa in Ireland, should be so generally impoverished. Mlr. C. H. H-UTCHINSON Said, Cork, containiet) a most wealthy andI respectable inercantile connexion ; but, nevertheless, thousands of the poorer classes were severel distressedl. After a fe w words f rom M2r. IXIO Y K andI MNr. P E 1.H A f. thecre s o lution was agreed to. Mlr. GOULBURN moved that a sum not exceeding 7,0001 be granted to the Rovel Dublin Society. Air. HUME finqsiired hosv the bidlauce of 12,0001., the allegedi cx- pentliture, isas forniished ? Air. GOULBURN replied, by private subscriptions. Mlr. FlUME designated this sotciety as a great humbug. Gentle- men, he k-new, read tie newspapers there, and hldies wvalked uzpon the lawn ; buit as, to the promotion of -cience, and thle fine arts prac- tically, hie hadl great dloubts of its utility. TIhere was en expendi- ture of money for openin2 mines, for imineralogical pur,poses, and statistical surveys ; where were these benefits conferred ? Mr. S. RICE highly praised the prog-ress of thle society, and( salid that it furnished practical information. whicis aided the foundation of a miining conmpanv with a capital of lialf a million. It had also a good school for the' finie arts,- and Mr. Johnson, of the Board of -oks ha unificentlv contributed froiiu 10,0001. to 12,0001., for the erection of a gallery for the finie arts, in the institution. Mr. G~OULTIUERN' corroborated the Statement respecting the pracic,tl,scientiflic benefits of the society. Ai r. ELMIS also defentled it. Mr. HUAME repeated his objections, and Said that mnore money hiad beeni spent upon thiis useless Dublin society, which was split into political narties, than was expentledI by Butonaparte upon tiny scienitific inst't-ution inlhii most extrav,agiant days. He was inclined to move that the grant be redluced 33,0001. Mr. PEEL recomimenided the ho,. memnber to becomne a sub- scriber, and personally examine the socicEtyv if after that he saw catuse to retain liis opinions, he coultd next year propose liis re- duction. Alr. HIUME said, that if the riglht hion. gentle-man weould grant himn a local committee to examine practically into the proceetding,, of the society, he shouldl have no objectioni to go over and pursue the inquiry.>(A laugh.) lr. Al( erman WiOOD hioped that the Irishi Tovetnmient w-ouldi make his hon. friend( ( ii r. Monte) an honiorarTV menmberof thie Society. as he was of maiiy of the Londoni corporate bodlies. AMr. Aldernian'THOM1 PSON hioped to hearniore evidence of the practical value of the societv, tojuistif'v Itie vote. Mr. MQONCE xawv no reason why Dublin should not have a mu- scuml, as well as every other capiuial. Sir JOHNN NEWPORT Said, that at the timne of the Urnion, 'these grants wvere promisedi to Irelandl, andI ought not nowv to be witlilseld, when that couintry was impoverished by the Ujnion. and her gentry transplantetd to spend their mnoney upon English objects. Mlr. WV. WILLMIAIS had a higls opiniion of' the IriAh gentry. but would prefer to see themn stimnulated (if that were necessary) to suipport in preference their own niational objects. Mlr. (OUi,BURN rose foir the iturpONe Of resCUing the inhabit- ants of Dublin fromi the charge whi -ch had been made agaiinst themi. They suhscribed vecry liberally to all the public inisttitutionis for the relief of human nilsery that wecre establishetd amo,ng-st them. Mr. W.v NVILLIAM!S' had nt inteant to make any chargaais the inhabitants ot Dublis.geait After a few words frotin MVr. H ijMg, the grant was agreed to. The next granit proposed was 10,15811. 8s. 33., Biritilsh currency, to defray the expens;e of thie commissioners for nsaking wide aiid convenient streets in the city of Litsblmn. Alr. IIUMIE wished to k,now why thle inhabitants of London or Aberdeen were to pay for widening thle streets of the city of London. Such grants acre never made by Parliament to widen the streets of the cityv of London: he therefore trusted that the house would re- ject tli& grant altosgether. Alr. J. SMI1TH was surprise-4 at the couirse which his hoil, friend the member for Aberdleen hail puirsued that evening with regard to theprants to Ireland. Iledtid not know whether the streets of Dub- u;n wanted widening; but he thought that the people of Ireland liash as mnuch right to call for at part of'tlse puiblic mionev for the imiprov-e- ment of'their capital, as the people of Scotlant ihad to call for it for thieCaledonian canal, and othier'publis w,orks. If lie were not afraidI of ob iz tic rats hiiiwere muade to Irelandi, he Should be in- clind t vo arer umsthan were now given to thie people of thlat Mr. PEEL contentded, thiat the committee ouight to ag-ree to this vote for certaini local reasons,which he detailed to it. Parliament had granted mnonev to witden the aveiisnes to both houses of Parliamuent and to repair Wi,estmiinster-abbey. Why shiould it not, be as liberal to the citizens of Dublhin as it had been to those of Londonu'7 Mr. H-UME saish. thlat the granits to which she right, hon. gent. liedallded,by o mens ustiiedthepreseiit g-rant. lic consider. ed te gantto Wstsinser.abevto e very fi1 bestowetd. especi. allyas te pblicwer not exlude nfrm -etring it. unless they paid heay feeto tte Deti ad Chater.(Hear. hear.) No grants Isat eve bee mad to he ctizes ofLonon for time iniptovenlCIEt A Axsi. Londoni Bridlge to wit." (A laughzl.) Mr. HUME allotted that 150,60I01. had been granlted for the pur. pose, but conitendled tisat it miade nio difl~renee to) his arguimenit, as he had been one of ten miemnbers who opposed it. Besides, it was onlyv a pAynrient to the city out of' tie fuinds whichl it litad set aside in tise reign of Queen Anine for the btuilding of new churches, and which tot the latst 70 yeats hiad becn diverted into the publiEcie quer. Thtepropotsed grant,in his opinioni,wa,s perfectly uniusifinabic. Sir JOHIN NEWVPORT rose to suggest a mOteoftle ituinishiiig thisgrant, bydiusinishiig thneinterest upon thedebt whichtilsecomni- missiuners l;ad conitracted. Part of it, lie observed. paiul 4 per cent interest. The iisiproveinents which these conimissioners had made tenided tint only so increase thu beauty, hut to proinote the hecalthi of tie city of Duhlin. AIfter a fete words fromn Mr. GOU'LRUaRi antil Mr. Altdennan Wvoon , the grant was voted without a divisioni. The followiitug grants store then agreedt to : ?2,5i00 for thie'Farminiig Societ y of Ireland. ?'300 for the Royal Irish Acadlensy. ?500 for the CosiniissionersotfChiritable Doniations; and B&,tuests. AiA 9'938 for the inien BoardI of Ireland. ?lI;,00 foe Board of' Works in Ireland. ?16,000 for piriniting, stationery, and othier disbursetnents, for the Chlief andI Utider Secretary's Otfice in Ireiand, &c. ilr.HUIIIEwsislied to know ws'ethier thieref'orm lproniised lastI year wvith respect to the prices of stationiery twas carried inito effec ? Mir. GOULBURN was not awsare thiat aniy promiise hail been given.I Mr. H-IU )li satid, that it liad been utiterstood that the prices, of1 stationery in Irel2and were to be brotiglit dowii to the level of those its Engla'nd. Air. (IOULBURN said, that the prices, couldl not he brought to that level, because the greater part of the paper coitsumed in Ireland was English piaper. The course now taken was this :---a list of pri'ces was futritishied every year froni England, and upon those prices 10 per cent. additional was allowed intt relanid to the piatentLee, besides 64 pr cnt,in onsideration. of' his Supplying the Stationery retail, which saelteepnes oensetof a separate establihdmieat. Sir J. NE IPORNT thought it more than questionable whether thie Crown liad power to grant patents for the supply of articles for the public service. The efrect of this System. swhiih vwas torni. nant of the nmonopol.yabuse of the reign of Ehizabeth, was.thast we wvere paying 1ll? per cent. for stationiery ia Irelatid more than we paid for it in England. What advantage it teas to Irelanul as mi~ country that the paper consumled there should come fromi Englandl lie didl not well understand, (hea-r, htear' ; and lie thoughit t4at if the clerks mnade shift to write uponI, rishi paper, it wouldl be, to ssiy thle least of it, quiite as well. Mr. GOULBURN said, the lpsper teas ftirnislied at the lowest rate at whiichLthe public could possibly be served. The righit hoii. baronet a~skedtli, tly iersons in the diiTerenit offices could ntot write on Irishi, Instead of niisigi English 5taper. lNow, lie believed the righ hon. baronet lii,tiself, when lie was in office, stayer wrote on Irs1ht paper. I ,We understood Sir J. Newport to uhisksent front this. I Hle was conviuieed, that if the rigzht hon. baronet had had ettcl a numiber of letters to write as fell to his (M1r. Goulurtis) lot, he would hiave been anxious to use English paper.on account of' its Su- perior simoothiness. Hle wa%s stirs the com-mittee would agree withi iin that there was true economny in procuringa moderately good article at an advanced price, rather than a bad one at a very low rate. Mr. HUME said.when lie,last year, proposed ihat the printing of certain public docuissents should be executed in Englatnd, by which a savitig of 2,5001. might have beets effected, the tight hon. secretary cxclainied, " Oh ! how can onu think of injuring Irelant, by taking froiii her this branch of the public printing ?" Now he wished to learn, why the right lion. secretary did not adopt the same ptrinciple with respect to the purchase of paper ? He was informed t1lat Ad. Ilagnar, and other gentlemen, ho hail paper mnanufactorie.s in the south of Ireland, csuld supply all the stationerv that was wanted. As to tbe inferiority of the paper, lie would onl say, that it they gave a fair price they would certainlv procure asgood an article6as they could get elsewhere. Itch had been said a, the right of an in- dividual to supply the Government oices of lreland with paper; but did not gentlemen recollect that Si Smuel Sheoherd gave it as sis opinion, that thlere tas no patent. (Hfear.) And why should they coutntenance this monopolv in the person of such a man as Bradley King? (Hcar, hear.) He also would cry " Hear, hear;-" atid ie would ask whether any man could place Iiis hand on his heart and say,that the transactions which had beetn brought before Parliament, and in which M r. Bradley King had taken a very prominent past. were fair andjust ? (HElear, hear.) I f any person declared them to b correct and proper, it would surprise him 'ery much indeed. (Hear hear.) Many an Lndinidual had been discharged fromn sis situation, who had not dene half so much as Bred. ley King was proved to have doine by documents wlhich were famtiar both to that and the other houlse Parlianent. iMlr. GOULBURN.-The hon. gentleman had asked, why he (MlIr. Goulburn) would not take the printing froDm Ireland, at the same time that he felt no hisitatuon in procurinn paper from Eng- land.. The answer was simply this-that the Irist paper was nuuh worse than the English; but that the Irish printing ansrwered the ob- ject as well a4- tfie English printing woula do.. He. would nDt stop to inquire whether *MIr. King had a patent or not; hut -if. he f urnished paper at a fair pricc, and if, for a long time, a patent-ltad existed, (even aemiitttr!g, for argunment's sake;ttCht it was no longer F?od im law,) these poins, he conceived, wvere sufficiently strong to induce Government still to precure its stationery through the saone channel. IlMr. DA5vsOX and Mfr. T. ELLiS supported the vote. Air. HtIJM1E: observed, that it appeared, from papers which bad been laid before Parlianment, that the pttblic had been defrateded to a considerable extentin the stationery department in Dublin. lVhat was the excuse wbich was; made on tha; occasion ? It was fit that it should be stated, as it was truly extraordinary. Why tdim they were told, that though the money vent into the pocket of the master, it was totally without his knowleiege that the fraud was comnmitted by his servant. (Hear, hear.) There ought, in his opinion, to be 2,0001. struck from this vote, which wa. paid in the way of commission. Certainly he hoped it would not be passed in the ensuing Year, without that reduction. Mr. AONOK said, if proper paper couid not at present be made in Ireland. the best course would be to invite over a number of Eng- lish manufrtcturers, who would very soon fabricate a proper article. The motion was then aereed to. Mr. GOULiBURN moved for a sum of 6,5001. to defray the ex- pense of publishing proclamations in the Dublinf Gazette, and other newspapers in Ireland, for the year 1824. Mr. HUMiE opposed the grant, which, he contended, ought to be reduced to 3,2501. He could see no reason wihy a mode of promul- gating proclamations should be adopted in Ireland different from that which wasfollowed here. It had been over and over again stated from that (the opposition)sideof thc house, that tbe systempursued in Ire- land, with respect to publishing proclamations, was selected for the purpose ot bribing a great part of the public press in that country. Those who were thus bought oyer were ready to argue that black Lwas white, or white was black. It sometimes happened, when there was not one of those convenient instrumerits in a county in which an outrage, calling for a proclamation, was committed, that that pro- clamatiori scarcely appeared on the scene of disturbance, though it wmac profusely puzblished every where else. Thus the charge to the , publie was inreased, whilst the effect of the proclamation was u a great me;wure destroyed. He had before shown the aksurdity. par. tiality, and injustice of this system. It was proper that it should be altered, and therefore let shoild move that the sum of 3.2501. be substituted for 6,500). The former sum was sufficient fo&r keeping up the l;ublin Grazette. Sir. C. H. HUTCHINSON could not conceive wby the rigbt hon. gentleman should call for precisely the same sum tiis vear as he had done in the last ? What reason had he to suppose that the proclamations would be equially numerous ? Mr. GOULBURN defended the grarnt, the amount of which, he observed, was calculated with reference to the probable expenditure. 01 course, if there were any surplus, it would be accounted for. He wished it to be understood that the notices of commutation under the tithe bill, which, in consequence of a cLause inser.ed in that bill, at the surgestion of the boin. member for Limerick, must be in- serted in the Gazette, had last year created an expense of 2,0001. ; so tiat, taking this into considerntion, the grant was by no means a large one. If the niode adopted in this country for the dissemlination of proclamations were acted on in Ireland, the expense would be dou- ble that whiich lie now called upon the house to sanction. .M1r. S. RICE said the allusion whicll the right lion. gentleman had made to the expenditure of 2,0001.. in consequence of the clause suggested by him (Mr. Rice), had only plunged the right hon. gen- tieman into a greater scrape. The right hon. gentleman had called fora zrant of 6,0001. before that clause was brought in. It was tiherctore, apparent that he had demanded 2,0001. more that the dir- curnstances of the case at the moment justified. isar.) After some fturther conversation between Alr. V. FITZGERiALD, Sir J. NgW`PORT. Atr. BEN-, Ei, and Mlr. (GouLD aR,, the com- mittee dividled, when there appeared- For the m.^tion, 511 For the amendment. 271 Majority, 24. Mir. GOULBURN then moved for the sum of 5,00t9i. to defray the cxpense of printing and bindine the public acts, for the use of th!e magistrates antd public offices in Ireland. Sir JOHN NEWi,PORT opnosed the grant. The sumi now called for was 1,3001. more than that demanded last vear. iMlr. GOULBtURN said, the vote of last vear ;was 1.3001. short of the actual expenditure. Sir. .IO.NCIK objected to prinringtlrcactsin this manner. Upon. the salne principle, they ouglit to be printed in Scotland ant in Miales. \rhv not print all trle statuites in one place ? ;i r GOU,LBURN said, if the acts were printed here, the cost wvould be greater than that incurred bv printing them in Ireland. Alr. H1lM B moved as an amendnient " That the vote be post- poned unril information was lai(d before tie committee to enable tieint to judre of its propriety." Mr. GOI ,13URN could see no reason for such a postponenment. The amiiendLiient was ultimately withdrawn, arid the resolution carriedl. The following votes were then carried ? 24,000 for crirninal prosecutions and other law proceedings in Ireland. 5'5,200 for dtficiencies of last year. upon tie subject of the grant last rMentiolied. ?8.84,3 fer tie support of non-conformist ministers of Ireland. ?E4,254 for seceding ministers from] the Syno.1 of Ulster. X751; for Protestant Dissenting M.inistcrs of Ireland. ?1,072 for salries of the Irish lotterv offices. 1'4,uo0 for tile completion of the harbour of Howth. ?15.000 for Irish civil continzencies. X4.500 for expenses of Inland navigation. X27,;,oo for expenses of police and watch establishments of Dub- lin. ?7.140 for salaries to pay comnmissioners of judicial inquiry in Ireland. Sir J. NEWPORT eulogized the fearless and impartial conduct of the comnrissioners. '1,651 to pay the salaries of commissioners of inquirv into the receipts ot' the land revenue in Ireland. X.,100 to pay the salaries and expenses of the record commission of Ireland. I 1,. for superannuated allowances. ?1O.OtJO0for improvements in Lhe roadbetween London and Dublin. .5,000 for ex^enses of trigonometricaIl survey of Ireiand. The house being resuiiied, tihe CHlAIRTM AN reported progress, and obtained leave to sit aLain.-Report on lSor:day next. The slave-trade piracy bill wvent througli the conimittee.-Report on Monday next. Mr. HUSIE wished to know when it was intended to take the discussion on the nitvasure. Alr. I,USH I iNGTON said it would suit the convenience ofnsany gentlemen to take it when the report was brouglit up on Alonday next. The other orders of the dayv were theoi disposed of, anti the house adjouimedat ONE O'CLOCK. For redlucing 3,0001. out of f;.00x1l. for printiirg Government adver- fisetnent, its Ireland.-;March lII. Althorp, Vis. viobirlouse, J. C. Minrck, T. b. tobinrson, Sir G. Allrn,.i. Ti. Hunte, J. Newsport, Sir J. Srini th J. Benriet, ilon. H.Hurtchirnson, HnnlParneil, str Vi. TierneF, Rtt. Hon. G. C. H. Patlner, C. F. G. CBalsraft. J. Rarnilron, l.d. ;IRot,aTt-. G. NVebb, E. Ca, ert. C. James, W. Rice, T. S. WVod. iM. Duirearmnorr, Vis.Kiienedy, T. F. Itunrhold, C. Teller. Evarra. W. I . oter x r.k-.A Cv ..... W0--VI - . HOUSE OF COMMONS, F1IDAY. MARCHl 19.