House Of Lords, Thursday,...
The Times, 1824-06-25T00:00:00

'PA.L#AifEtNT.4RY I TPtEICBlVGE. ' TheLonCUSCxL.tOlt, tlie Duke of`Mb1OJTRitoa --_ El, iti5~Ol udO~iedthe 2Yal -assent to the-new churches bill the euijeteni1ufttion` bill, tbe-179ast Indic~Zal')fsessaons bill, the risih insurrection act i3ill, th ratIs -aions of Wales b,jiU the Chtesa and Greenwich HOsPitiA feloziles 'bill, the Earl Pdarsh4l'a relief bill, thelfrish magistrates' indemnLityr bill.thelIrishWcrown debtoa Ihill.ls ianesranbt, theAl Souithwark bri~dge bill, the Thames tunnel, end twOTisltritu~ines bills. The M1arquis of LOT MIA-T tookc the oaths and-his seat,z8i Ba1roO1 Kerr of-the United Kingdom. Lord CAr.xDi)oT and -Lord COLeImE5TE5t 1iresentedsevOral Pet!- tions, praying for the ab6lition of slavery. SOUTH AMERICA.- The AMarqtis aof LA4NSDOWN, before the order of thze day' was" gone into whiuld take the opportunstv of this last sliting of the hotse-, to a R ome informnation from the noible lord opposite on a vry imortant object. What he had to say would perapshav coe orereglarfrm him on the motion of ad- ut b thoghtit wuldsuit the convenience of their iT~c~er,andbe altgethe moreproper, if the observatifns he Ibidto tat wee mae nw, henthee was a fuli attendance; eaPe- ~cillyas y dingso whien so many of their lordships were present~, isawoud srel avidthe imputation which had been cast on his noble fred(OdHolland) of takingc the house by surprise. Hav. In& early In the reent sesion called their lordships' attention to the siuatialon in which thirs cowntry stoodi with respect to the States of South America, ind. having heardi the declaration made by Ilis AMa- jettysts.3inisters on-that subject, lie had reason to expect t.hat that declar~ationt would before now have been followved up by soe 13ublic mmeasue Put after -that declaration of his Majesty's Ministers,- and after. the papers relmuive-a to South Amnerica had - been laid on the table, four adjmih-ths had elapsed without any step having been toaken towards the establishment of those relations with the states of South America, which, it ap- peaaed to him, it wa.4 the general wish of the Parliament and the country a osee formed. In the motion he then made, he did not rely on any other principiles than these which -were oaritntined on the question by his .Majesty's Ministers: but it was to be expcected, ithat. in consistencv with those principles , and vwith the declaration w1hich his Majetj's AMinisters ihad m4de in January lafit, that rio logtime would have been allowed to elapse without a recogni- toio of the indeLpendence of some of the state's of South Americ'a taking place. ALn opening had been left for Spaih to take the priority in the recognition;- but if Spain did not avail herself of that opening, it was understood thlat this contry was relieved from the necessity of any longer delaying the taking of that step herself. It was a 'course which ought above all to be =dopted, in consistency with those principles whichi -in thiis couns-. try ouvh-1t to Make it be wished to establish intimate relations with thiose States which enjoy a system of liberty, in every part of the world. Such had heretofore been theconduct of tlieGovernment of this country with respect tGthe free States of Europe,andihe thou~ght it ought tobe extended to America. He therefore now called oni the noble earl opposite to explain what were the intentions of his M'tajestv's Govemnment on this important matter. After allthatbhad been said and done on the subject, it perhaps might be advanced that the recognition of the independence of South America was but a form : it was, however, a forrn which the law of nations requiired, and there coul,dnot beonelaw for one paretof the world, and anothier for another. Besides, the relations of -countries often turned on maLtter of etiquette, which could not be dispensed with without great inconvenience: and their lordships must bear in mind then opinion which this coiuntry entertained of the importance of establishing relations withi South America. If there were no objection to the principle on which relatio'ns of poli- tical intercurse were to be establishied, why was the recognition so long delayed aftier the independence had in fact beeni so filly assert- ed? He did notrmean to say that every part of South America had fully established its independence ; but he shoull not be contradict- e-d when he confined himself to two of the states, viz. Colombia and Buenos Ayres Fewr if any of the states of the continent.- of Eu- ropie hatd a better clainm to be regarded as independent. The in- dependence of Colombia and Buenos Ayres stood on a more firnm foundation than that of the stare, respect to which had caused, whe- ther propcrlr or nult he should not now discuss, delay in doing that act which th interests and 'the' paliey of this country so oh- vsiously seemed to call far. He. must express3 his confident hope that previous to the next meeti,ng, of Parliament faul effect woul heive to he eclratin wichhis Miaiesty's ministers have mad, b te rcogiton f schof hestates of South America as - mghtbe n coditon o ainainthir independence. This inca- sur wa du totheopiionandwisesof this country-the feelings of hic onthesuhct o mn culddoubt. The Erl o LIVRPOO fel it ecessary to say something on what had fallen from te nobe marquis ; and what he had to state would be perfectly plain, explicit, and distinct as to the course which the King's Govwernment hadL pursued on this subject. WVhen the noble marquis formerly brought this matter under the consideration at thecir lordslilps, he reduced the question to three points :-I. Whe- ther there was anv connexion between this country anid any states of Eutrope (Spain excepted) which rendered it necessary to withhold the recognition of the South American states. At that timne, he took upon himself to state to the noble Marquis, that this country was under rno engagement, expressed or implied, which could pre- -vent this country fromn acknowledging the independence of the States of South Aimerica, whensoever such a measure should be thougqht proper; that the Gov7ernment were completely free to ex- ercise their own judgment, andI that whatever the reult of that ex- ercisie might be, the subject would be treated purely as a British question, determined upon British interests. The next poinit was, how mattsmr stood with regurd to Spain. In answer to that he stated thait it Was very d3esirable, if it possibly could be accomplised, to in- duce Spain to be the first to make the recognition. Every thing which had passed had only tended to confirm him in the propriety of thisq view. The recognition of a colony couild only emanate dejusre from the mother country; and until that event did happen, there would always be some degree of inconvenience in the relations which other countries might establish with a new state. This was obvious: butheneverstatedthat this inconvenience was areasDn forrefusingthe recognition, butthatit was one which madeitde-sirableto induce the ~AI-4-- "'I- evr fotto induc~e`hee Government of Spain to take this step having failed, the Govern- ment of this couantry did not consider themselves precluded, whien- ever the proper time shouild arrive for recoguiising the independence of South America, by any obli gation or engagement, moral or other. His Mjest's mnistes cosideed heselvs perfectly free on this quetio, s Wll it repec t th Gvernment of Spamn as with ever oter.The hir pont ws, heter measures, bad been taken, by endng ut omissones, o frma judgment whether the Govenmets f tosestaes erein ucha condition of reasonable permanency as to render it adv-isable to c-atry into effect a recognition of the indepenidence of those states. The last was the only question that now remained to beanswered. Their lordthips knew that com- mniss;ioners had been seat out; and when he stated that no information on the subject of their mission had yet reached this country, he was sure hc said enough to aczount for a recognition not having taken place He had now only to repeat, that his MAljesty's Government waLs under no obligation whatever which coul prevent the recog- nition of the States of South America, whenever it should appear to be consistent with thie initerests and character of the country to make such recognition ;that his Majesty's ministers had taken means to obtain the necessary information respecting those states, anid would act upon that information as soon as they Ireceived it. WVhat he had said, he believed, completely comprehended all the topics to which the noble Allarquis had alluded, and precisel y explanedi the state in whichi the question with respect to the relations oftis -countr- with South- America stood. PROTEST AGAINST THE EARL M1ARSHAL'lS BILL. Lord HOLLAND, before proceeding to the motion for which he hsd given notice, was desirous that th&'miautes of Frday,, the 18th,- *Saturday, the 19th, and Monday, the 21st of June, should be 'read He couild not but express ksis satisfaction at seeing on the last day of the session, previous to the prorogation, such a stare of thit houe.H was haopy to have the good fortune of addressing so numerous at, ~a7sembly of peers. He felt much satisfactian that the delicate mat. .ter, for delicate fie couldi not but call it, which he was about to *biD ~ forward, would receive the consideration of so full a house. Hle felt sat,isfaction also -that if his recollection shouxld fail him as to fat,that he spoke in the presence ot many noble persons who wit. *iaedvhat had passed,and hewa,saure,whate-vermight be their api- i-lion with respect to the bill, would acknowvledge the correctness of 1-iis statements where they were correct, or sect bin, right if he should ~n any respect he in error. This he not only looked feetward to~ hie expected that those whio were presqent would bear full evidence, di the xtatement of facts he was about to make, and upon 4hich he should call upon their lordships to give their sane- tion to the resolution with which lie intended to conclude. But if their lordshiips should not agree to adopt his proposition, they -4ould at least bear this in mind;-.that it was not impossible, even at the sh~orest notice, to procure a numerous meeting of that house. 'lieirlorahis hd gvena pactcalproof that at this very late p'~iodof hesesion a il atendnceofPeers could he obtained on 2~ hurs'notie. hosepersns, hcrfn.re, who had such a feverish n~prhenson o allsubjcts onnetedwith this im-portant bill as it was alle,mus hav hada ful oportuityto atte-nd if they pleased. lie henmovd tat ie inues e rad.IHere the minutes were Zred byteCekAfesoecnesio across the table between Thd iiverpool and Helland, it wasw agreed, that the minutes of r,et first two aays should only be rendl, in as farc as they related to the EmArl arshal's'blll,but thoseofi'llontlayentire.] Hislordship also ri,lved the reading of the following PROTEST.- DrSSE"MIrErT-lleausC on general principles, I object to any oncssir. o Roan athlic, ether collectively or individu. all; ad he illvilats te onsittion, by enabling a Papist to hol hih ofic ner te prso ofa Potetat King, and dispenses wet thseoats hic Potetats reboudto take. Because the p-actical effect of dispenaing with the oath of supremacy to Papists, od!ustof neessity create aconstitutionral jealousy on the part of the I5rotcstarnts, thereby genierating feuds and anintositles,most especialy .ai he resnt ime whe Paist avw teirintentions by languaige 4idact s ii.digused tat heycanotbemisunderstood. ~ Becuse o sactio thesepaato of the oathis of allegiance ~a supremcy, is t establih a mostdangerous and alarming ~cceent insmuc- a th unin o chrchand state forms the bass o ou costiutinsigretnes and excellence, fireedom wad security. and lastly, because at thio very late period ef the esion, and at the early hour of ive oeclocIk, be- fore peera arrived at the house, the present decision cannot be considered to be the sense of this house, many peers being absent, Rnd the house tak ent quite unawares. For these reasons, and having 4le welfare of uy country indelibly- at heart, 1 soletnnly protest aasst this bDIl, and other measures oF-a similar nature which sec Wlt eonstant course pf progression. (Signed)- "NEWCASTLE. "'ABINGDON." Lcrd HOLLAND now rose to complain to their lordtship3sof this tratest. Their lordahips would perhaps think it strange that he ii.auld consider himself called upon to make any aniinadversion on 3potuestc for he, morelthan any-other noble lord, had availed him. hIlf of. tisat privilege, and had thought it htis duty tO be *cry fre in t rendering protests against the decisions of the hikuse. Before he sat dawan he should prove to thecir lordship.t that 3e regaled the privilege oit~ lerihg ProtesEs aM one of. the mnost al;d vhich the memzbers of thatliouse possessed for he would nO. propose such a course as had been adopted with his own pro- tests He would eonciidd with a-motion, conceivedin words on h6ringwhich hebelieved their lordships would acknowledge that fmi 120 years past few individuals, situated ae he was hut would liate passed a-more serate rensure. He complained o. this protest cMltwo grouiis; andidi'tlhe first place, that it lef a general itnmression on tcite mitdt of those who heard it read, exactly the ,tcvse of what the i4ats accurately stated would produce and et of the'sevsn propsiotios which it contained, one only ex- prdtsad a fair ditterence of opin.on; and- that all the other six ws4a-mssappreheasiomts of - the ordert and practice of their lord. sipsm' house, or proceeded fror a want of right recollection of faces ad circumstances, or constituted a direct- attack on the hodnour of 'tiie hoiise,-aii attack, which ftnded id subvert all resp,ect for i'hle laws otf the country and those regulatifns uponwlaich all~ delbrcnce to ?he proceedings of that house restid. He referred more particuIarlv to theise words.-"- And lastly~ because at this5 very late perioa .sf the-sessoion, and' at the early hourr o1' 5 o'clock, before peers arriveci at the ho4se, the present decisioni cannot be con. sidered to,be the seliise of. this house,_ many pers beinig absent, and te heouse taken'tqoite' unawares." "ow 'h would ask their lord. ghips,what. woulclbe thought on.reading this protest, by anyv manilot converssnt -With the hours of attending in this house, orh bany-indi- Midul who' was not present at the'trnansection to which it fefi=red ? Ile would askc whether the impression would not be, that tlie4utbj.cct ,Was quiite new'to the houise, and had not been hetidlof in the course of. the session-that it had beeit6ken suddenly up, andl contrary to the regular course of business-,.tbat the bill had beenhlurrict thjrough in-'amannerquiteupusual,thatsmopainshitdbeen taken tdpro'. courqidgeattention to the subjeeffiom theirlordabips who coudldattend, yidtshatnooippoxtuinity hadabeen affborded totnosewhocould notattend io,;e.nd tlefr-PoxieaP Pie would' ask wctieterall this 'was not lik-ely tu'be tje rimpriesSon on any mnan'sminina who was not acquainted 'with the fatt5? So fair, jiowdver, fromn this~being'.te genietal comi- plexion of the frkn action, he need not state to.their lordships, thjat the bill vwhichi liad br assed waaone'whichlrelated to, and had for its object, a miatter, wichMT ba been very' recently under their consi- deration ; 'that it came recormrended-byp_ertons of high authority, both agreing anad eisagreeing on the gieat question of Catholic emancipation ;that it was truie a propotiitio'n to thle same eff'ect -had been rejectedl, but that rejeztion was not in conseqsAence of any dif- ference of opinionl;I that thie measure was in so one-insAtance Obj6cted to,excpt nth grund of formn t'hat it was not hiurried through the Jitiuse, and that amaple opportunity was given Mbr tlte attendance of such 'of thieir lordiships as chose to- be plese.tt. ,,He.must confess -tha:tcrc of dhe most difficult rtarts-of the task lie had thiit day im- pos-ed upon bimselIf consisted in noticitig Euch frivolous objections- 4objections whijtiappliedmoretothebillbboughtin)b thenobleeari op. poaiite,and which ile~d nisox'eceited th-esanction of Pariiament:than to hisbill. Thiatn,obl, earl gavenotice tifthe billhieintroduced,and there was sonme exnectation tiat the Earl Mlarshal's office' 'would bave been inluded in the nieasure. Th)ehouse wasthen taken by sur- prige, but it was the surprise that that ineasure was not included. The noble earl, however, explained his conduct 'satisfatctorily; but didl he object to the object of thie bill against Which the protest, was directed ? By no meanis. He stated, that he refrained from in- cluding that office on thiree grounds.-.lst, that f'rom the dignity of the Earl, Mafshalls office, it would nolt be preper to make it part of a bifl' relating, to officers of the re-venue ; secoeud, that the urgency of the case required the immediate p;issing of the bill, in order to en!- able the Governmnent to go on; thir'd, t~hat be had doubts from what had fallen from the noble Mlarquiis (Lansdown), whlaefer the noble Earl Malr,shal would like to bie restored to h is office in the manner proposed. N ow, wogild any mnan sav 'afte-r this, that his bringing in the bill could be call'ed taking 'te lieouse by Sur- prise ?- It was' niot perfectdy regular to take notice of any conver- sations which passed in that hoi4se, except sutck' as occurred oponIv at that tablea; but. he Would take the liberty to say, that after thedf'seussion to whibilbe had referred4 scarcely adey hadPassseawith- ,n O mut some conversation hiavinig taken plimce! on the propriety of bring.. igfrward this measure. In the mean time a ttroke of Proyi. deuce 'deiutived his excellent and illustrious friendl the noble duk~e of at near relation, and left him without any poisoni to whom he could immiediately wish to delegate the exercise~ of his office. It was then felt that this was the proper timec to bring forwar4 the Measlure which had bean adopted-..a mneasure on which the general sense of the house hadl previously beesmexpressed, and therefore was in fAvour of passingtlhe bill as soon asit.was pro)posed. He should show that the hiouse had not been- taken byy surprise, and that no one had -any right to say so. Atthe same time, be wished it to be understeoil,' that he would always stand up for the: right of a minority tonCter a protest against any proceeding to which they objected. They were always entitled to exercise the privilege of recording their opinion. WVith regard to the objeictionable part of this protest, it wvas but fair to acknowledge th;at the statement thiat the bill was brought in at a late period of the session was correct, ji' that state- ment had stood alone, there would have been no objection to make to it, exceptthatthe circumstance complained of was not unusual. Wvhat would be thiought of this objection to the late period of the session, if their lordsbips referred to what had passed in other years ? He wished they would look- at the journals, and consider what sort off bills were brought up and passed at the close of the session. In thcu present year a very unconstitutional act, the nature of which it was painfol to recollect.-the Irish insurrection act.-bad been passed wfith as thin an attendance, and less notice, than the bill protested against. If their lordships looked at the journ-als at the latter period of al- most every session, they would find that coercive measures, and bills which had for their object pains and lpenalties, were then generally 'introduced, and very little attended to, Were they then, to understatnd that whenever a bill infringing oa the' libertics of the people wvas proposeat they might pass it in as thin a house, aiid withi as little consideration, as they rleased ; hut that when a bil of boons and concessions was proposed, then every absent peer ought to be consulted ? WVhen biUs of the lAtter kind were proposed, then only were their lordships required toube tremblingly alive to the consequences, andl to proceed at every, step with the greztest caution and deliberation. The next clause of the protest censuredtheppass- ing of the bill at 5 o'clock. In this statement there were two pro, positions, both unfounged-first, that five o'clockwas an -early and an unuisual hour; and secondly-, that thLe bill did pas at five o'clcck. In the first place, five o'eloCkc, so far'from'being an early or unusucal hour, was the period which, by general agreement of the house, had been appropriated to the transaction of public business. It was wrong, 'therefore, to say that this partieular busine;s came on at an early hour. It was thie duty of every neble lord to akttend when the houise 'was sitting; and it was merely in consequence and practice of individuals that no business was brought on wthout p evious notice. Thi s was acourtesy which the nolcr poiehdawy rcied in a manner whichi thosemostopsdohmi oiincudntbut appo. Every noble peer wsette obigfradauject whenoevverhe pleased. It was mrlinoseiancfthsoutesy that he did not stand up yestedyadmkth oonenw in- tended to make, instead of gvnanoieshe ad doe. It was a little too usuch, then, to be acsdo nirreguarity when the courtesy and formis of the house had been strictly adhered to. The general rule was to pro-ceedl to public buslinsas at five o'clcckt Ejsjjytg lhTlnW~iif wen upt6~i,ta'ble Sompe persoinn-ear !h-im said, "Go on, move ;" but observinig that somne noble lords had some petitions in their hands, he said, " Let the petitions be first present- ed." Accordingly, eight petitions were. immediately presented, some by his noble friend (Ltord Torrington.) A short conversatioin if, terwards took place at the table. A noblezrelation and friend of his, if the nobe-duke (Richmond) would allow him to call him so, also presentedseveral petitions.Hethoughits-even, butfrom the wholenum. her stated in the minutes it could Rot be so many. One petition was also presented by another noble lord. A noble friend of his (Liord Grosvenor) adverted to a meaure wbinch had occupied the attention of their lordships, and actually made a motion. After all thir had been done, he again rose, end maoved that the order of the day be read ; which being done, he preceeded to move the third reading of the bill. He introduced that motion by two or three sentences. He did not think itnecessary to say much, but it mnust be in the recollection of many of their lordships that he stated enough toapprise thehouse of what was going on. The next propo- sition to) which he should adver-t was-that no peers had ar- rived. Now lhe must assert that many peers had arrived, end he declared that if any noble lord had proposed to postpone the thirdi reading, or to adjouirn the proceedings on it for a short tinie, during pleasure, hp. would have consented. He did not say that he woud hav agreed to have given precedecyi to any bill which would have been likey to have caused discussioni, because, if a bill were passed late in the night, the chance of its p'assing that samne night through one stage of the Commioiis miight be lest. But he liad another reason for not giving the p~recedency to any oiher bill whiceh might have caused delay. Hte wished to take thle opportunity of a full attendance, and he knew not whether it was from hionoris canasl, or vanifatis caus&, but he could, spaing from his own experience, assert, that the house was gene. raolly a good deal better attended at five o'clock than at seven'. Five o'clock, then, was not an hour by which the hopse could be taken by surprise ;but such surprise was more likely to occur at the latter hour, when noble peers absented themselves for some cause whi ch he should not attempt to describe. He was not here then, talking of 'theory, but of practice : for, on that very day, at, a latler hiour, a bill of great importance had passed-a bill enact-. ing severe punishments on subjects of this country. He had voted for thaLt bill because he had thought it was necesary. It passe at a quatrter before seyen ; tha~ Earl Mlarshal's sUI soon after five o'clock. What occurred thien wvill substantiate and bear out all that he had before said, that when the liberty of the subject was in question no anxiety was shown as to the state of the house. He understood that thie minutes of the house would pirove, tihat upon the third readinzg of tbe,4elch judicatureblllthe numbers of the division had been only eight to three. Hewished the noble lords who siigniedthe protest had chos,en todivide'the house when he movedathe thiird reniding of the Earl Mfarshal's bill- They would have found at least3 timestehenumber present. The noble lords, however, seemed to' thinknotbingofa measureimposin.gpenalties,,whiletheEarlAMarshial's ofilce was. in theiroDpinion, a sub3ject which, like the Queen's trial, requited tie attendance of every peer. It was true that time forms of the houseallowedabsent peers to express their opinions by-proxy; but every man knew that that opinion was not given from what was heard in the debate. The noble lord who votea byproxy,co-nfidedit to one whoni hesingled out on the ground that he was likely to hold the same opinlion as hfmtself. This prce-gwscn etwt th prac. tice of Parliament. He did not condemn it, but he winshed sieoble lords who were so anxious for attendance to consider well on wnat basis it was that tranquihLity and subuiiission to the laws deopended. He wvished to ask those noble lords who were so fond of appealing to ithe constitution and the laws, what they considered to be the foundation of that constitution andl those laws ? Did net theauthoiity given) to tbje laws depend on the consenitof the two houses of Parlia- ment, aitd the gserntgiven to them by theKingP Tiaerewasanact,of Parliamnent fo'rwhtic tt,eneblelordshad greatrespect-thatlaw whic excluded Roman Caitbolies from seats in that house; He wished they would read what Protes tant writers had said on the subject of tIat law. He wished they would read wlhat the historian Ralph1, who was a zealous Protestanti educated among the American pu- ritans, had said of the mannert in 'which 'that' law nassed throu it both houses of Parliament, iVriting 70 years after the transaction, he described it to have been carried in the midst of riot, and in a manner more like thd violence of a mob than what ought to be exr pected from a senate-house, or the representatives of the people. Wsuld it be said, then, that this law was not to be ca11ed the sense of the house,? How v was that sense to be known, but by the state of the votes? Senseornonsense,thatactwas now thelaw ofthe land; and every time thattheir loIdahips took their seals in thathoute, they had to swear the oaths and sign the declaration which it required. More had been done this session in calling together the 'peers than had ever been thepractice hitherto. Now his own opinion of that practice was, that it was agreatadvantage and convenience to their lordships; but, constitutionally spe2kdng,he was not sure that it wa3 not a great innovation; certainly it was a greater innovation on the constitution than permitting theE:arl Ailrmhal to perform his own functions rather than by deputy. It might be that on this occasion many lords were absent: in fact lie had never known but on the occasion of one bill that the majority of lords were present: 351 was;-he believed, the numiber of which their lordships house con- sisted, and he certainly ne-ver recollected 176 on a diviiomi but o.ce. There were present at least two peers whe were not content, though he believedl there were a considerable nurmber; and had it been expressed, he shouldl not have had any qbjec- tion to adjourning the debate. He had thought it his duty to' present the bill, and to explain his motives for it, and the reasons. which existed for expediting it through the house. Bvery person, therefbre, who attended the house had atniple notice -that such a neasure was before the house, and that a disposition existed to ex- pedite it tlnroughuthe bouse; and those who were sharp sighted to' parliamentarv proceedings, and knew how very near it was' to the close of the iession, must have been aware of the necessity there was for the bill to pass early in the day. When first 'his attention was called to thissaubject, he had looked'forprecedeits, and he found' that in 1701 a protest wbichi liad been 'entered was so effectually expunged, that no records of it remained tither inl the journals or in any of the vubh6atioisof thedtime btItstiavejeeuoxeixeshca thenajority tbought an icorrecc statementoffaetsbaad beenrnade. Thenext lastce-was one of- a'bill"connected with tisiucstion brought ip from the other ,onse of'Pa4itent,- -and-a very long anid able pieat nwet-ignd by those.who *ere called-th cJacobite Peers. rwlie Earl of Sur.de.land co3plairied'of it; nd- :tbeX up jumped the the Dukeof Newc stle;andi'hatdid hbedo d wi-iiat he *(L9r4 Holland) now proposed t'do?-N6, but with "bne fell swoop'? he took-firofrn-1he journals-Ahe-whole of the 'reasons. What waitheconhequence?. A-long struggle took placebetween th'eexpungers andthe enterersofprotests, an4 hehad the satisfaction of statintg that the ininority beat the-majority oni Wst subject 'thek provedthat ex unging the protests -wafotonly-wrong in itselfl but that it defeateu its own purpose. - They wett on pretesting, ana the whole thing was virtually given upi as the majority did not expun$e thereasons againstespung.g. T-is precedenrtatleastshowed thatin the year l72?theemajority thoughtthierewerereasons for expuriging. In advertmig to a more andent and -nore reasonable precedent, he hadalitile malidouspleasure, as iti asa prot`esttotha bitll which was brought in, and which intninged for the first time the birthrizlif of the peerage- of-this country by exacting --an oath preidius to dis. charging their duty in that house. That bill was call'ed, or, nick. named,- the Bishop's Test. It was lost in that house, and was objected to by Lord Shafiesbury, and by all the eminent men of the time, on the- principle that the birthright of thpeerage was too sacred to be touched- by the- authority oif hat Tlouse, IL was .thought (and perhaps rightly) that that was denying the authority of an act of Parlianient., ln conclusidn, his lordship declafed hXis intention tonmoVe a - resoiutioi of'faet to place on the journals ef the house. Thatit -would be.'a mefc resolution of tact, the minutes of theirlordships, as wel as the recol-- lection of severa, noble lords who heardahin, woula conirm.! His lordship then riov4e-a:resolution,.minuitelydetailingthecomuneuce- mient and-progress of the bill for dispensing with the-oath of silpre- Macy to the Earl M1rshal, froi its ifitroductin to thte thiri reading' on the 21st instant. ' ' The EarlofAEBINGDON then rose and Addressedtheir lordships, but in solowa tone ofvoice as tobenearlyinaudible belbw the bar. He declarea laswei daerstood) his convictionofthedang.rousten- dency of the bill; at the same time that he-utterly disclaimed being actuated by any indisposition towards the Roman Catholics. 'I'he only part of the protest which he. wished to sign was this-" Be, cause, to sanction the separation ot the oaths of allegiance and su- prpm4py was to establish a inost dangerous and alarming precedent, inasmuch as the utipa of hurchi and-state-forms-the basis of our constitutional greatness.'* The othei patasof thepretest hebhad not -considered simpotant. Ths Duals of NEWCASTLE said, unused as-he wa totake part mit the discussions of that house, he rose under feelings of con.; siderable etbastrassmnent; but he hoped to be excused for a few Ani. nutes, as it was not his intention to enter into the numerous details which the noble lord (Holland) -had discussed, but would confiDe himpelf to ;i sbor, statement of what hl considered to be the facts of the case. In the Arst plce, he must return his thanks to the noble lord for the temnper with whiclh bebad -brought.forward this proceed- i ing.. Nothing which bad fallen from that. noble !or was -at all hurtful to his feelings, thougahthe proceeding went to censure the- entry of his (the Duke of-.iewcastle's) dissent. He wished -to ex. plaii t4st he hq4 no feelings inimipal 'to the Earl Marsbal, but on' the contrary would rather do hira a service than a disservice ; but his oblection was founde4 on he ground that thits was a grant of a. peculiar natxre,and 'whicli he thought of the utmost importance. He had therere. protested; and to the last hour of his life he sbould piotest against any infraiction of the constitution, which ought -o be Uld EG*t scr4. 4s to the fourth reivon in the protest, he would first state, tht. every t,ing which was alleged in it, he con- ceivedito be truer if he had not so thought, he was not the man who would have enteredit on theirlordships' jounals. Like other men, he might faU intQo error, though he would not admit that was the case here; but if it wrere the opiion of the hoise that he bad stated what was erroneous, he 'would be willing to abide by their decision. As to the bill, he thought that it had been carried through the house in a manner indecently rapid, 1onsi6erinfi the 4ature of the biU. On Friday last he believed the househa4thelirst iotice of it, on which day 'it was read a irst time. Itwas read a second time on Saturday; and the committee beitig dis- pensed with, it was read the third time on Monday. It might cer- tainly havebeen Bve minutes' after five o'clock,as he bad not referred to his watch; but even if It were so, he thought he was justified in stating that it was carried atan early hour. A itay noble lords were absent,iind could not take part in the- discssion bec4use thev arrived in-the house too-late. He considered, therefore, that he was -war- ranted also in making tbat statement, and so convinced was he of it in his own mind,that he could not consent to Tetract any thing which hehad written; bAthe would be ready to abide by the determr ination of the house, a.d unless it were the general feeling -that he ought to withdraw that statement, he should not wish to do so, but he was entirely at the niercy of the house, and would be guided by their decision. Lord CLIFBDEN said that a great deal had been said about the Pope, but for hs part he thought there was as much danger of Jupiter becoming again dominanet. HXe was averse from all aspenity of language in treating of the Roman Catholics and their claims. The Mlarquis of' 1J4$SPOWN denied that it had ever been his intenfton to ab3ridon the subject of the dispensatioa for the XaAr) Mlarshal.- The Duke of RICHESOND said, that having been appealed to by the noble lord (Lord Holland, he rose merely to state that it was past five o'clock when he preseited five petitions to the house on Mvlonday last. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, with reference to the lan, guage of the protest, that after a bill had passed that house it must be considered as expremive of the sense of the house, whatever might be ths)ught of it out of doors; and if the sense of the house had been inaepoautely or imperfectly ollected, the mode of remedy- ing that was, by isoving the repeal of the hill-riot that he Wished that to be done in the present case. It must now and then ha ppen that that must be allowed to express the sense of the house whichl was embodied in the bill, even if the bill had passed at 11 o'clock in Ebe morning instead of at 5 o'clock. There might be a want of at. tention, yet it could not be said-that it was not the sense of the house. As to the oath of supremacy, he took a different vieir of it contain every thing in the oath of supremnacy; but the latter oath was adopted, 'as my Lord' Hale said to unrivet the errors which had crept in with reard toheonthotallegiance. With regard tothe motion,be had no ob3ection to it, so far as it stared facts, except that be did not think it stated all the facts. He should therefore move as an amend- ment,that after the word4'bll," it sbould be inserted, "read the first timne on Friday. He agreed that the house was not obliged to take the business in the order in which it stood in the orders; but it was natural for persons to tbink that matters -which stood first would comeon first. Hew ould wisb, therefore, to insert iD tbe noble lard's resolution, that the third readarg ofthe bill was brought on before the consideration of the other orders of the day. The Earl of LAUDBRDALE denied that there was any rule known to that house for establtshing any precedency in the orders of the day. The LOR1J CHANiCELLOR explained. Lord HOLLAND did not think the order in which the business stood in the book-was -of 'aty consequence; he could not therefore have any objection to the noble and learned lord's amenrdment. He vwas sure that what he was then going to move would be the unanimous sense of the house-he spoke with reference to what had fallen from the noble lord (Lord Abingdon). He should move that the noble lords who signed the protet mnight confine their signatures to such reasons or parts of reasons as they might approve. The motions were agreed to, and the bouse adjourned.. TInng1U'1P lTRD5. TiUiSDAY, jUNE24. ,.j .,_