Prison Discipline.
The Times, 1824-05-29T00:00:00

Yesterday the annual moeting of the Society for the Improvemfent of Prinon Discipline, ana for the Reformation of Juvenilei Offeuders, tokplc in Freernasons' Hall, Earl GiuosvExaosTin the chair.- The meetinZg was very numerously attended, particularly by ladies. Ea-el Grtosvricora, in taking the chair, called the attention of the 'meeting to the gent leman near hin, Mlr. Samuel'Hoaxe, jun., who 'was about to rend theannual report of the society. Mr. HOARE then proceeded to read the report, which was of con- raiderable length, Thefollowing are extracts:- " Within tWe last few years, great have been the improvements made in. the state of many of the county gnous. Whatever may :formerly 'have been their condition, there are now7 few counties in which great ctre has net been exercised for the preservation of the bealth of prisoners In several, allso, newt gaols have been built, and the magiotrates have adopted planis of a moatbeneficial tendency -for the due classification, hard labour, and religious instruction of 'the prisonems - But the progess of prison improvements must be gradual, and there3 is yet much to accomplish before the gaols of 'this country, shall be, what the laws intend them to be,-the in-stru- XMenS Of just punishmentand dread, and at the same time of morel ana religious reformation. "T'Ahe gaolauuder local jurisdiction in parwiculr continue, gen- rallY SPeakig, in a Very, deplorable condition. In England ~one, there are about 140 prisons of this desepint any of these caoftfeenaers ardoccasionally commit~as nd it ha5 been ascer- tained that upwrards of 8 000 persons pasa th,rough these prisons in ithe course of the year. in ceeral,there isno effectual separatien of the cexes ; in some the keepe dues not reside in the prison; in others the insecurity of the building renders it necessary that irons a3hould be used and other unjustifiable and illgal means of dleten- tion adopted, ?or security. In the greater. part of them, the sick have no separation from the other prisonera. Tlhe consequence of' thesa defects is, that thre gaols are so many establishments for the 0ncouragemnent anda growth of crime."' " In their last report, -he Committee stated that anl -opinion was entertaiaed by the ensgistrates,of a northern county, that the law did not authiorize 'be mainteniance of. any pirisoner before trial, other- wise than by his own labour; and that, acting on this conviction, they had proceeded to place untried prisoners at the tread-wheel. On a reuaml to work. the ordinary allowance was withheld, and a scnyfate of bread and water was substituted. This measure in- Love avrimportant principle. The common lawv of England has unifo regriled imprisonment before trial for the purpose of safe cultody 4only, and independent of the injustice of the practice which treated every man as guilty, till provedl innocent-the.imnpolicy wzas also evident ; for nothing can tend more effectually to weaken the character of punishament in the minLd of the convicted, than the consideration that the accused and possibly innocent share with him the samnepenalty. It is,thereforei ery'satisfactory tolfind thatthie question is about.to be set at rent, in the passing of this bill now be- fo-re the Ijuse ; ai clause having been proposed, edcetjing that no un- tried prioner shall be employe-d at any wvork without his conment ; -that thins consent shall be freely given, and shall not be extortedl, nor obtained by deprivation or threat of any prison or other allowance; and further, that no prisoner shall be compelled to such species of labouras is asriened to prisoners sentenced to hard labour ; and that no pritoner before conviction shall, under any pretenceebe employed at the tread-wheel, even with his consent." T'he delay arising from the want of a more frequenit gaol deli- very is an evil that calls loudly for the interposition of the legisla- ture It is afine principle in the crimiinaIjurisprudenet of ourcountry, thatevey prsonis resmed nnoentuntil proved to be guilty; but the rea lenth f imrisnmen beoretrial, especially in the pre- Bentdefctiv coditon o ou gsos, hinits effects directly opposed to hisjus maim.A geatproorton f pisoers committed, are n cnfiemet, efor tral,fora lnge peid than the law wouldinflct f thecommisionof th offnces wit wich they are char,ged; and not a few without haigbeen guilty of any offence -hatever."9 " If any facts be required to prove: the cruelty of their situation, the-y may be found by reference to the, present state of the gaol in the city of Norwich. In this prison there are now seventeen persons awaltlng their trial, which wilfl not take place until August. Of t tse tree aill then have bcen in confinement above nine months; tw= f them, ten ; five, eleven; and the four remaining, twelve months. It is also worthy of remarik, that the individual wh heIas been the longest imprisoned, is a youth of sixteen, who was commit. ed on a charge of running away with a hat. So unequal a distribu-. tion of punish ment reqirsno comment, and oughlt surely to be amended without lossofte. "Before the Committee proceed to give an account of the progress of prison discipline during the past year, they beg to advert so ar erroneous notion which is prevalent, that notwithstanding.the elibrts mnaking for the moral aTnd religous welfare of society, crimne conti. nues to increase. The Commaittee are happy to state, that this opi- nion is not foutnded in fact. An official return has lately been laid byefore Parliament, from whbich it appears that the number of offen- ders committed for trial was considerably augmented from the year 1816wt the year 1819, but this increase w~s only in proportion to what might have been aLnticipated, from the numbers who were throwvn out of employment in consequence of the termination of the late war. In 1819, however, the progress of crime attained its height. Since this period, she meeting will learn with pleasure, that the number of crininals comnmitted to prison for trial has been gradlually declin- ing, in smie districts, indeed in a much greater pro portion than was its previous increase; and in London and Mliddlesex only, the ntiruber convicted in the last year is not only less than that convicted in any of the preceding aix years, but is nearly on a Par witli the return of 1816--the year previous to that in which the increase com- menced. It is,besides, worthy of remarke,that generally speking,the offences hayvenot been of thatguilty character before prevalent; as a Prcofofivhichbma6ybeadduced the fact that thenumber ofexecutions in the las;t ye-ar has riot amounted ink number to half of that in either of the two preceding yearS; and that, with one exoception only, it has been less than the number of executions in any year during a period of 14 years. Besides, the number of commitmnents to prison have been of late considerably augmented by other causes-viz, the in- creased vigilance of hc police, the operation of certain statutes for themor redy pprhesio ofoffndes,and the improved disd- pin Ofprion, b whch an peson ae the more readiy dis- posd t prsecte,conincd o th efcacy of salutary punishment. Fromthee casesmanycries nw apear kzefore the public which wer fomery cncale, ad sffeedto pass with impunity." ante Cmitehvthsaiftonto state, that at the pre- inttim newprions on mprved,jsas are erecting at the fol- lowng lacs :Calise, helefo ,Derby. Morpeth, Newcastle, Norwch,and orcster An tha cosiderable alteratitons are about to tae plc atthe following places r-.Cold Bath-fields; Canter- bury, City Galand H-ouse of Correction; Coventry, City Gaol; Dorchester, County Gaol; Exeter, County Caol and Hluse of Correction; Stafford, dlitto ditto; Yarmouth City G-aol; York Castle, County Gaol and House of Correction." I' The excellent plan of placing female prisoners under the exclu. sive superintendence and control ofta matron and female officers, as direted by the new statute, has alreadybeen adopted in many of the county,pisns Thim design would bemore effectually secured1 'Were al te female prisoners of a county confined in one establish- ment, for which purpose some of the lesser prisons might be appro- priaed,as he umbe ofwomn i cofinement is generally smnall ' Newaee,the adie whohavefor se-veral years visited that prisn cntiue hei lahurswit anassduity worthy of their high chaactr ad o th exellnceof hecause to wliceh they are de.' votd. 'hebenfit tht hve esutedfrom their unwearied exer- tiung have been far greater than could have been anticipated ftem the defective construction and confined limits of this prison ; and they have presented a strilcig example of what mnay be effected, und er very unfavourabie circurnstances, by a judicious system of instruction, employment, and arrangement--an example that has been followed in several parts of the! lrlngdom with that pure and adent feeling which is the characte-ristic of female benevolence." " The utifit of the tread-wheel discipline has, during the past Year, continued to excite much of the public attention. Greatly as this valu2ble species of prison-labotir has been assailed the commit- tee, from the further iunformation they have been enabled to collect, a-' to its effects, are strenFthened in the conviction that the labour is neither prejudicial to tile health, nor injurious to the limbs of the prisoners. Froma its adoption, the committee have witnessed the inost be-neficial results,, and they cannot but consider it as essential. ly contributing to the important purposes contemplated by prison. discipaie.' "Great inequality of treatment, however, at present prevails,' from the manner in which the tread-wheel is a'pplied; ana conse- qunl,prisoners in perhaps adjoining counties, committed for the name descriprIons of offence, and for the samse Periods of confine. snent, undergo very diffecrent degres of punishment: the labour in same gaols running to excess, wZile in others it forms scarcely a pu. nishniesit."1 " To the fitness of the tread-whieel labour for females much dif. Ilirenc of opinion pevails, eve amonig those who are aecidedly in' favour of its apltinome;but the committee are still of opinion, that f~ eti ecitos of female offenders, esne. easily ' the idl an iodry'te labour is productive of mich good; and fcrflysprnedd, maybe as Safely as benefi. cWi alldniinistre.- - "6In Ireland, ' the Association for the Improvement of Prison Discipline' has, duzing the past year, been very actively employed in the diffuasion of information, Flince the Inspectors-Genera have commenced their imaportant duties, a eonsiderable amelioration has been manifested in the character of the Irish prisoners, and sanguine hopes are entertaine-d of the value and efficay ef this appointment, from the personal characters of the Inspectors, and th e influence which their representations will doubtless have upon the county grand juries. ".The repeated commitmais of jtivenifle prisoners, who ~rgain and'again brought before the juries of the city of Bublion froer strial, have induced -the Committee to promote the eitablishment of A House Of Reetion for such boys as are sincerely dispsed to reform. it isein=ed that the boys ishell he selected from the Richmond and Smithfield Bridewells ; regardl being had to the nature of the crimes for hic the wee orginlly pa~ Ittd the circumstance of their beig oghas o frenles, ad t ~birconduct In prison." LordUALHORP sad,tht i risnglo move for the publication of he epot wichhadius he red, e flt o wllassured they wer aredy o atsfed it te ntiictin i gveofthe progres of te Sciey, ad te bnefis tey ad cnferedehait was 'iuite unnecessary for him to use argumeits in support of his nmotioi, in addition to thcse which were so strongly impressed upon them by the Report itself It w7as obvious that their Siciety bad obtained the impetus of public opinion, for the promo0tion of the great object wrbich they hod all in view. He had heard, in commnon with them elI the benefits which hbad been conferred tbrougbout the kingdom, J>y?lxappointrent of matrons to superintend the imprisonmlent of fhmalc: it was aliumaneandexeellentregulationX which w7ent ia unsoaln with the kind and valuable symnpathy. wAich was nowv sO generally d5JFlu5ea, by the visits *of fem~alws to the gaols throughout the luingdom, for the purpose of extending to the unfor_. stunate nnd helpless of their own sex, th7at improvement, consolatio-a, and ultlmate re-itetatemnent int usesA society, of which their condi. eioitstood so rotiebin need. (IIear, hear.) Nor could he turn to the recital oftb.oseaete of Parliament twhich recognized and enforced the due clsssificafion ofpr[soners, without being sensible of the mwerits of this Societge at o ric he atruck with the great success of that essential part of their plt34 the reformation of juvenile offSend.. C23. TFhe more the ss4instration of the discipline of prisons was brought under the eoalutary check and control of public opinion, the greater beltefite would be conferred upon sociwety atlarge,and the stronger would be the moral o,wtin of law. (Hear.) Hle was usware that, notwitthstanding tbe extensive and beneficdal efforts of this Society, there was5 atill much to be done in following up their great object. Intheprcgressof tbisSociety,theybad alreadyeeen and felt the inestimable bleosing of the force of plublic opinien-..of thst .opinion which2 by having under its influence the arts of public meni and the administration of public allairs, lmProved the character of both, sndhad aprodgious salutary operation m the country. (Hear.) It checked rail defeated those who ba3d telsh and sordid view~s to nswer, and compelled them to cloak comne of their actions under To speciou3 gasb ef public pattiotismn Elc weea3 2xious to h.ave tlhe whole force of this ublic'pio brouightid' 'bear upon the disti- in the klfac ftepbi,an ujc oisstpnosmrlcn trol, the nioreceai nsdteheothdhfsinfgo,ad the absence of ha rnils hyhad now in thepogeso their Society gie si eeanwvn otesphere ofuiiyo magistrates;te a aeteamnsrto of localanpov- cial jusic nolne ocos et details of loaljesic tion, but to etntoashrofmegneral utility, wihcle into action the best feelings oftehuabeart, and were well cal- culated to establish the prevalence of good and just principles. He concluded by moving the publication of the report. - Mlr. T. FOWELL BUXT0ON, in seconinl this motion, said, that his noble friend had so impressively urgedI the value of the Society, that he had left little for bimw to say in following himn on the present occasion. In listening to the accounlt whiich had been just given of the internal and external operation of the plan of the Society, he could not help being powerfully struck 'with the comparison which it presented, between their original and powerless obscurity at the commencement, and their yresentbigh and salutary influence. Their earl hisory ad nthing in its origin illustrious, but owed its birth- plae o asmlldisrit i Sitl-fels.A small tradesman with- outinfuene, r. edfrd,hadestblihedtheSociety, never ex- pectng tat i wold i itsprores rciethe notice and sujiortof he overign oftheoldworld, anid the Chief- tain ofthenew Mr.Bedords frst effort was attracted hby a casual visit to a wretched family, in his neighbourhood where he found a boy 12 years of' age, you-ng, in deed, in years, but ripe in the commission of every mischiief, and preco- cios oly n te erptraionof vey crime; he had repeatedly commtte caita crmes ha ben tiedfor one, and repeatedly impisoed a eerygao inthemetopois.There was in this boy a stang andextaordnar cominaionof juvenile simplicity, of theplafulessof he hil wih te ctions and subtilty of a man. Mr. edfrd ommuicaed is dscoeryto him (Mlr. Biuxton) and to others; they thought at the ,jvoment they had discoveredi aprodigy, but -oon,upon extendigtheir Inqusntes,ascertained the powerful fact, that similar instancesof early depravity were notfewr, ut mdPV,, Ent were unchecked and unfeltin the baneful extent of their moraliullu- ence. Mr. Bedfozd, to correct. this evil, resorted to a novel experiment, more remnark-able for its philanthropy, than its prudence--he'lodged. these young delinquents in his own holuse, end he restored to society, as usefuil members,many whio had only served thpir apprenticeship to crime, From' this small beginning the present Sodiety uas gnlargecl, by the indefatigable gllbrts ot' some gentlemen who thenheard him, one of whom he dared not name; but their secretary (Mlr. Crawford) he would, who had been tliroughout zealous and most active, and who,in the conflagration of his limise, lost allihis own propertywhile he saved all that belonged to the Society. (Hear, hear.) The atten- tion of the Society to the situation of jutvenile ofepdilers led them to obtain information relative to the state Of the gaols throughout the kingdom, many of which they found in a shocking state oftont.4mi- nation, andl places for rivetIng the continuance of' crime, and bardens, ing to depravity the human heart, rathier than arousing its better affections. They were assailed as zealots and enthusiasts, whilst ea.- gagedlin these attemipts to reform the state of thegaols. They were told in the House of Commons, by a worthy Aldean, (Sir Win. Curtis), whio was an excellant man in private life, that they wanted Turkey carpets, and tea and toast for criminals: ( hey de- nied the imputation, and disclaimed seeking these luxuries for prisoners. All they desired, they sasd was to see industry supplant idleness, anld order in the place of disorzler ; and, to his credit, M1r. Hlolme Sumner, who had at first considered the state of one of the Surrey gaols, which they had described in one of their reports, as being one of calamity, got the report for the purpose of'answering it, but ended his labours by referring the imaprovement of the gael to his brother magistrates, after ascertaining that thIe statement was not calumnious, hut true. Another accusation had also been made against themn. It was said that they were hard-hearted, and sup- porters of the tread-mill punishment. He should be happy to discuss that question with those from wihom he differed ; but an occuirrence had taken place on that mnorning which restrained him from entering uoon that topic. This morning the Subject had been broached in thie committee, and they had now in the room several igentlemnen who enitertained strong opinions against the tread-mm (Sir John C. Hippisley, Mlr. B3riscoe, and other gentlemen who* had published pamphlets on this subject, sat near Mr. Buxton) ;but it weasdeemed iniexpeient that they should make tha pae the arena for such a discussion. Several gentlemnen were, in tact, at daggers drawn about the tread-mill, and it wouild be unpleasant to let loosge the argument in a company of ladies, where they ought to be all dlesirous to keep thie peace. (A laugh.) For these reasons he thould refrain from diiscuss-ing that question on .,cthe present occaion. The trea&mill might or might not have abuses acrding to the present system of prison discipline; but the princi- Ple of abourin gaols must be maintained, and more particularly when three who thoughit withi hint upon the horrible severity of the Penal law of this country, were asked what punishment they meant to substitute in the place of the capital one--what secondary penalty they wouldl inflict instead of transportation, which was now admitted to be no punishment. They who were friendly to a mitigation of the Penal codie were anxious for the establishmnent of an adMitted plan of prison labour, which might deter the idle, and restore industry to the crimninal while in the coarse of his purgation. The first resolution was then put, andt curried usranimiously. Air. EVANS, Al. P., in proposing the second resolution, which re- ferred to gaols of local jurisdictioni, also took the opportunity of commenting upon the many advantages which this Society had dif- fused, and the promise of further benefits whichi their labours held forth. Mr. SYxES, lP, rose to second theresolutioS. He was never unprepared to express his approbation of the Society for the Im- Provement of Prison Discipline, beinig of opinion that incalculable benefit had resulted to society rtom its exertions. In that opinion he knew that he participated withi all humane and benevolent men. He had long entertained these favourable sentiments towvards time Society, and his experience as a mnagistrate had eonfirmed him in them. The resolution which lhad been propased for the approbation Ofthmeeingaludd paticlarltopisons incorporatejurisdictions, ~ dthedicipinewhch revild i tem. Itwashislot,fourtitnesisi e yer, o dipene jutic in he opuous town which he repre - ~ned i Paliaien, ad o thse ccaion hewas frequently at a ros asto he annr i whch e soud dios of the criminals. Thlere were only three mode6 ofpn ahct that could he resorted to.-namely, transportaio, whipping, and im- prisonment. He had great objecto to resort to the pu- nishmaent of transportation, except in partiCUlar cases ; to whipping, his objection was stronger, for at that species ofpunlish- ment human nature revolted,and experience proved itto be inefficaci- ous. Noth-ing then remained but imprisonment in gaol, and to that ma_&istrates dreaded to have recourse, on account of the want of dis- cipline whIch prevailed in most of those plates. In the gaol which he most particularly had had occaion to observe, there was no attemcpt at classification, except by the separation of the exe, ad o th tred romtheuntried prisoners. The tried priones wre ll iacd i on rom.The untried prisoners ofI evey dgre ofiniuit wee lkewsekept toggether, from the poor boywho apetie hd tmptd t stalan app54 or an orange, up to the an ho ad obbe hi materunder every circumstance of aggravation. It was painful to a magistrate to be compelled to con- sign prisoners to a gaol of this descriptioni. He felt great pleasure in bein ablto tate,tat in the town with which he was connected, a newailwasbeig biltccodintoapla whchhad been apoe of y te Scity or heImpoveen ofPrionDiscipline. (Ap- plaue.)Thee ws oe prt f te rpor whch ad heen read that partculrly nteeste hi-namly,thatwhih rferred to the esta- blishent f inant choos. H hadvisited the school in Spical. fields, and was surprisedl at the beneficial effects resulting from in- fant education which were there apparent. He hadl at first looked upon the scheme with a considerable degrce of distrust, because he conceived that if children were sent to school at the early age of eghten onts ortwoyeas, heywould learn nothinig, and waud oly ecoe atogthe digutedl with education and unwllig t acuir i ata lter~erodof life. On visiting die in- fantschol owevr, e fund e actto be exactly the reverse of whathlms~onceved.He fund liatt was not only a school of lite- rature but a school of benevolence, of virtue, and of happiness. He never had seen children in any situation who appeared to be happier, or to posses more enjoyment. Instruction was conveyed to them in such a manner, that it appeared to thiem a matter Of sport and amuse- ment. The children seemed to be eager to learn, anxious to show their Proficiency, and delighted to receive the approbation of their instructors and the v-isiters. (Applause.) He trusted, that the systemn of inf ant-education recommnendedby the Society would receive a con- siderable share of public approbation. The hon. gentlemnan, after speaking in high terins of the discipline pursued at the Penitentiary at .uiak concluded by seconding the resolution. (Applause.) The resol'urion wsthnare to. Mr.HALrOStD said thti a mpossible for any person who had heard the report, not to patcipt in the satisfaction which he felt at contemplating the succs w ehad atteaded the exertions of the Society. Since Howard had first drawn the attention of the country to the state of the prisons, many individuals had introduced im- provements into particular gaols ; but exertions of individuals were -necessarily of a ver limited nature. It was re- iserved for tIme Society, for the Imnprovemqeat of Prison Discipline to carfry on the worl, of reformation on an enlarged scale. They' bad collected the rills of knowledge from all parts of the country-, and had poured theiii forth againi in a copious stream,for the information and benefit of the woTld. (Applause.) The hon. gentleman con- cluded by proposing the third resolution. Mlr. SA.SITEL HoAAtE: seceonded the resolution. He observed that the Society hiad, durit)g the lastyear, been busily enga edlin colloct- ing information with respect to the bestmode of prisoi discipline, not only, in this country bu hogou hwrd Theyhad brought to- gethra vse bdyotminormaion n tatubject,which they had diseL mintedthrughevrycannl b whchit could be conveyed to the pubic.Itws gatiyin toituo tat,batmanyof the new prisons whic wernowiprogesso eretionthrughout the country, w ere to becostrctedn tepla reomumndebythe Society.The resolution whic behadrisn t seondreltedto the reformation of youing culprits--a tubject in which he felt the deep eat interest. lanyhun- areds of youth'ful delinquents whom he had examained, were utterly unable to tell who' or where their parents were. fie would ask any thining ersn wht ese tan rimewasto b exected fromn these litle utcsts whn trne a4iftin ocity??heSocetywere costntyreeiin ppictin romsoeofthseufotuae be- ing, t afordthm te mansof itdray;ing fro the vicious coures n whch hey ad mbared.The state fth Societv's I funds alone preventeK them from paying attention to all these appli. eations. (Applause.) WVhen young culprits, who had gone the round of all the prsons in the metropohs, wexe asked vhich of them thev likedtle least,theanswerinvariably ras "TheHouse of Correction.' The reasonwas, that in the House of Correction tbeywerecollipelled to labourand ree4vp religiousinstruction; whilstinotherprisons, par- ticularly in one alludel to in the report, they were allowed to in- dulge in the mostvicious habits. In conclusion, he hoped the friends of the Societv would exert thenisej,ves to obtain for at that support which it merited in so eminent a degree. lMr. ALLEV, of the Socicty of Friends, next addressed the meet- ing. He said, that if there was one object which more than another claimed the attention of the lover of his country, it was those mea- sures which tended to the diminution of crime, and the consequent inczrease of morality and virtue in the community. It had been his lot formerly to visit various prisons in different parts of the country, aid he had been shocled at the scenes which he had there witnessed. In some places he had beheld prisoners mesioppressively ladeen with chains and bars of iron; in other prisons he had seen children of 14 years of age mixed with convicted felons. On one occasion, he asked why the children were thus situated and the answer which he received surprised himr,: he was told that thev were put there to learn the rudiments of religion. (Laughter.) He mentioned these circumstances merely to enable the meeting to perceive what im- provements in the prisons had been effected by the philanthtopic ex- ertions of the Society and of individuals. Ile trusted that thesuccess which had attended the exertions of the Society would encourage them to proceed in their Christian labours. (Hear.) He moved a resolution expressing the thanks of the meeting to the local magis- fdr. LoxaG seconded the reolu7tion, aad it was agreed to. 'SirG. ROsE moied thitaltksoftkebNeetingtohislRoyal Hih. ness the Duke of Glocester. The motiou was seconded byMr.1 Tower, and carried with anplause. Sir J C. H1PPISLEY saia, he would only detain the meeting for a fewrainutes, whilst he made a very fevr observations. It was true, that a sort of coinpact had been entered into to refrain from discuss- ing the subject of the tread-mill, but there had also existed an un- derstanding that some aUusionshould bemade in thereporttoaletter .nserted in the proceedings of the Society, which had been -written tby 3r. Cubitt, who called himself the inventor of the tread-wheel, (which, by the by, had been invented 400 years ago) directly con- tradictiug some statements which he (Sir J. C. Hippisle ) had made on a fosner occasion. All that he wished to saywas, that Mr. Cu- bitt's contradiedon was completely founded on error. Mr. WOODS moved thethanks of the meeting to thenoble Chair- man. The motion was carried amidst loud applause. Earl GROSVENOR shortly returned thanks, and the meeting then broke up. PRISQV DISeIPLI7B.