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	<title> - THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY NAVIGATORS IN REACHING UNDERSERVED BUSINESSES</title>
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	[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
	[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


	THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY NAVIGATORS IN
	REACHING UNDERSERVED BUSINESSES

	=======================================================================

	HEARING

	BEFORE THE

	SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED, AGRICULTURAL,
	AND RURAL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT

	OF THE

	COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
	UNITED STATES
	HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

	ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

	FIRST SESSION

	__________

	HEARING HELD
	MARCH 18, 2021

	__________

	[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


	Small Business Committee Document Number 117-006
	Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

	__________

	U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
	43-802 WASHINGTON : 2021

	-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




	HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

	NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
	JARED GOLDEN, Maine
	JASON CROW, Colorado
	SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
	KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
	DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
	MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
	CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
	JUDY CHU, California
	DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
	ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
	CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
	ANDY KIM, New Jersey
	ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
	BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
	ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
	JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
	PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
	DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
	CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
	ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
	YOUNG KIM, California
	BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
	BYRON DONALDS, Florida
	MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
	SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

	Melissa Jung, Majority Staff Director
	Ellen Harrington, Majority Deputy Staff Director
	David Planning, Staff Director

	C O N T E N T S

	OPENING STATEMENTS

	Page
	Hon. Jared Golden................................................ 1
	Hon. Jim Hagedorn................................................ 3

	WITNESSES

	Ms. Rebecca Shi, Executive Director, American Business
	Immigration Coalition, Chicago, IL............................. 6
	Ms. Bridget Weston, Chief Executive Officer, Service Corps of
	Retired Executives (SCORE), Herndon, VA........................ 7
	Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala, Chief Executive Officer, Half Moon
	Empanadas, Miami, FL........................................... 9
	Mr. Bruce Strong, State Director, Minnesota Small Business
	Development Center (SBDC), St. Paul, MN........................ 11

	APPENDIX

	Prepared Statements:
	Ms. Rebecca Shi, Executive Director, American Business
	Immigration Coalition, Chicago, IL......................... 29
	Ms. Bridget Weston, Chief Executive Officer, Service Corps of
	Retired Executives (SCORE), Herndon, VA.................... 34
	Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala, Chief Executive Officer, Half Moon
	Empanadas, Miami, FL....................................... 45
	Mr. Bruce Strong, State Director, Minnesota Small Business
	Development Center (SBDC), St. Paul, MN.................... 47
	Questions and Answers for the Record:
	Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Ms. Bridget Weston and
	Answers from Ms. Bridget Weston............................ 50
	Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Ms. Rebecca Shi and
	Answers from Ms. Rebecca Shi............................... 52
	Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Mr. Bruce Strong and
	Answers from Mr. Bruce Strong.............................. 58
	Additional Material for the Record:
	America's SBDC Missouri...................................... 59


	THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY NAVIGATORS IN REACHING UNDERSERVED BUSINESSES

	----------


	THURSDAY, MARCH 18, 2021

	House of Representatives,
	Committee on Small Business,
	Subcommittee on Underserved, Agricultural,
	and Rural Business Development,
	Washington, DC.
	The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in
	Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jared Golden
	[chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
	Present: Representatives Golden, Crow, Delgado, Hagedorn,
	Williams, Stauber, Tenney, and Salazar.
	Also Present: Representative Luetkemeyer.
	Chairman GOLDEN. I call this hearing to order.
	I want to make sure to note a couple of important
	requirements before we get going. Let me first say that
	standing House and committee rules and practice continue to
	apply during hybrid proceedings. All Members are reminded that
	they are expected to adhere to these standing rules, including
	decorum.
	House regulations require Members to be visible through a
	video connection throughout the proceedings, so please keep
	your cameras on. Also please remember to remain muted until
	recognized to minimize background noise. If you have to
	participate in another proceeding, please exit this one and log
	back in later. In the event a Member encounters technical
	issues that prevent them from being recognized for questions I
	will move to the next available Member of the same party and
	recognize that Member at the next appropriate time slot
	provided they have returned to the proceeding.
	For those Members physically present in the Committee room
	today, we will also be following health and safety guidelines
	issued by the House attending physician. That includes social
	distancing and the use of masks. Members and staff are expected
	to wear masks at all times while in the hearing room. And I
	thank you in advance for your commitment to a safe environment
	for all here today.
	I am proud to serve as Chair of this Subcommittee.
	Underserved, agricultural, and rural small businesses have
	experienced some of the harshest outcomes of the COVID-19
	pandemic. The road to recovery they face is long and we should
	ensure to advance policies that will prioritize them so that
	they are not left behind. I hope to use this Subcommittee's
	first hearing during the 117th Congress to examine the newly
	created Community Navigator Program.
	Throughout the COVID crisis large numbers of minority-owned
	and rural small businesses found themselves on the outside
	looking in when trying to access emergency relief. During the
	early days of the Paycheck Protection Program and Economic
	Injury Disaster Loan Advances, large financial institutions
	often prioritized larger customers at the expense of
	underserved rural small businesses. This lack of access to
	relief added insult to injury for small businesses bearing the
	brunt of the pandemic's economic impact.
	When COVID struck, many small businesses in rural areas
	were still financially and structurally rebounding from the
	Great Recession. During 2020 slow rural population growth and
	declining labor force participation led to a much slower
	employment rate in rural areas than elsewhere. Rural businesses
	also face a lack of access to capital in general, as well as
	broadband connectivity, making pivoting to digital offerings
	and adapting to the COVID business environment much more
	difficult.
	Minority-owned businesses have also been devastated by this
	crisis. Last year the number of actively working self-employed
	business owners fell dramatically across the black, Hispanic,
	and Asian American communities. And minority-owned firms that
	had been fortunate enough to avoid closure faced harsher
	financial conditions and have less cash on hand than white
	firms do.
	These are the realities that led to the creation of the
	Community Navigator Program. Congress authorized the program as
	part of the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021. It will provide
	$100 million for grants to organizations to participate in the
	program and $75 million to support outreach and education. The
	funding for education and outreach will go towards offering
	services in the 10 most common languages other than English,
	making improvements to the SBA's website, implementing
	immediate campaign to educate underserved communities, and
	establishing an SBA call center.
	The Community Navigator Program will supply grants to
	traditional business assistance organizations, like small
	business development centers, women's business centers, and its
	core chapters. These institutions have deep ties to the
	communities they operate in and will engage trusted, culturally
	knowledgeable partners to conduct targeted outreach to specific
	sectors of the small business community.
	This outreach can manifest in various ways, including
	hiring dedicated staff to focus on these individual
	communities, or partnering with specialized community
	organizations and chambers of commerce via a hub and spoke
	model. The Community Navigator Program seeks to engage with
	underserved communities by providing technical assistance and
	enhanced outreach.
	For this program to meet its stated goal Congress must
	closely monitor its roll out and work with the Administration
	to make the program operate as effectively as possible. That is
	why this hearing today is important.
	I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the
	potential impact of the program on underserved and rural small
	businesses and ways the Subcommittee can ensure as many small
	businesses benefit as possible.
	With that, I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
	Hagedorn, for his opening statement.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
	congratulations on your appointment as Chair of this
	Subcommittee. And on behalf of the Republican Members and
	myself we look forward to working with you during this Congress
	to especially help our small businesses and those in the rural
	communities and the agricultural sector.
	Chairman GOLDEN. I very much look forward to working with
	you too and I am blessed to be two Congresses in a row working
	on a Subcommittee with a Member from Minnesota. And you got the
	other one sitting right in front of you.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. And I know Congressman Stauber had a good
	working relationship with you as well.
	So small businesses from all sectors of the economy have
	turned to the U.S. Small Business Administration programs for
	relief during the COVID-19 pandemic. Following the launch of
	the Paycheck Protection Program created by Congress in March of
	last year, the SBA processed more than 14 years-worth of loans
	in less than 14 days, serving or assisting over 50 million
	small business jobs during the program's first run. That is
	just unbelievable when you think about it, the amount of work
	and loans that were run through in such a short period of time.
	The success of recovery programs like PPP is undeniable.
	However, there is no doubt that inconsistent guidance,
	burdensome paperwork, and administrative holes and delays have
	caused confusion for small businesses looking to utilize these
	programs. As Democrats continue to exploit the COVID-19
	pandemic as an excuse to ram through their massive spending
	package and create new government programs, I believe Congress
	should focus on targeted and efficient relief that will aid
	small businesses as we reopen the economy.
	The partisan $1.9 trillion so called American Rescue Plan
	Act of 2021 directed the SBA to establish a Community Navigator
	Pilot Program. This program will issue grants or contracts with
	nonprofits, resource partners, states, and localities,
	providing free assistance and resources to small businesses for
	programs made available during the COVID-19 pandemic. It is my
	hope that any new program created by Congress will aid existing
	SBA resource partners in their outreach to all communities and
	not duplicate current efforts.
	Southern Minnesota is home to a diverse group of small
	businesses. In my district it is important that rural
	communities have the resources needed to contribute to the food
	supply, fuel rural America, and support other local businesses.
	As we move past the pandemic it is critical that we ensure
	farmers and ranchers have access to the resources needed to
	maintain operations. To support rural communities and
	agricultural small businesses, I have introduced H.R. 1411, the
	Bipartisan PPP Flexibility for Farmers and Ranchers Act, which
	would allow farmers and ranchers categorized as partnerships to
	utilize gross income when calculating PPP loans. I hope the
	Members will support me on that bill. I think it can really
	help over 100,000 farm partnerships as we move forward.
	Today's hearing will explore the role of community
	navigators in researching underserved communities. I look
	forward to hearing from our witnesses on the outreach completed
	by existing SBA resource partners, like small business
	development centers, during the pandemic and how they have
	reached underserved areas, including remote and rural
	communities. I look forward to discussing the Community
	Navigator pilot program's objectives and deliverables in
	addition to the standards which the navigators will need to
	uphold.
	Congress has appropriated $175 million for this program and
	we must ensure that we be proper stewards of the taxpayers'
	dollars and that the Navigator program yields beneficial
	results for small businesses.
	With the economy in recovery and egregious and arbitrary
	lock downs finally coming to an end, new and existing federal
	COVID tools, such as the Community Navigator pilot program,
	need to be closely examined to determine the most effective,
	economical, and efficient next steps.
	Thank you for being here today to discuss this important
	topic. I yield back.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn.
	Very quickly I will explain how this hearing will proceed.
	Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement and
	each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please
	ensure your microphone is on when you begin speaking and that
	you return to mute when finished.
	With that, let us introduce our witnesses.
	Our first witness today is Ms. Rebecca Shi, executive
	director of the American Business Immigration Coalition. As
	executive director of ABIC Ms. Shi works directly with a
	steering committee of over 350 CEOs, university presidents,
	chambers of commerce, and immigrant advocates to support the
	passage of pro immigrant policy at the state and federal
	levels.
	Welcome, Ms. Shi.
	Our second witness--one moment. Just for one second. Our
	second witness is Ms. Bridget Weston. Ms. Weston is the CEO of
	SCORE. As CEO Ms. Weston provides executive leadership and
	works directly and collaboratively with the board of directors
	to establish the vision and direction of SCORE.
	In her 10 years with the organization she has developed an
	in depth understanding of the needs and challenges facing
	SCORE's staff, its 300 chapters, and over 10,000 volunteers.
	Welcome back, Ms. Weston.
	I would now like to yield to Ms. Salazar to introduce our
	third witness.
	Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity.
	And I would like to introduce my constituent, Ms. Pilar
	Guzman Zavala. Ms. Zavala is a small business owner in the City
	of Miami that I represent and the CEO of Half Moon Empanadas,
	an Argentinian style restaurant based in my district. She is
	also a mentor for women entrepreneurs in the City of Miami with
	the WIN Lab Miami from Babson College and the Florida
	International University StartUP program.
	She is a Ricardo Salinas Scholarship recipient for the
	Aspen Institute and a Young American Leaders Program Fellow
	from the Harvard School of Business.
	Additionally, Ms. Zavala is a Venture Cafe board Member and
	a Miami leadership and a Miami fellow graduate.
	Small businesses are the foundation of our community. And
	during these difficult times our local job creators have been
	absolutely devastated. I am committed to restoring our economy
	and delivering much needed COVID relief for our struggling
	small business owners in South Florida.
	Ms. Zavala's story is truly one of the American dream, just
	like mine. But her story is also one of the trials and
	tribulations. And we look forward to hearing from your
	experiences, Ms. Zavala.
	Thank you so much for joining us today and to all of you
	for doing everything you are doing for our community. Your
	determination over the last year is an example to all of us
	small business owners. And I specifically and my staff are
	looking forward to visiting Half Moon Empanadas on our next
	trip to Miami.
	Thank you, Ms. Zavala. I yield back.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Congresswoman Salazar.
	With snow still on the ground in Maine and I am guessing in
	Minnesota too, the background in Florida there looks pretty
	warm and looks nice.
	But thank you for the introduction and welcome to Ms.
	Zavala.
	And I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
	Hagedorn, to introduce our final witness.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Our next witness is Bruce Strong, who I believe you have
	met in the past and have worked with. And you were highly
	complementary of his previous testimony. I am looking forward
	to today.
	Mr. Strong is the State Director for the Minnesota Small
	Business Development Center Network. He has extensive
	experience in community and economic development and in the
	mortgage lending and banking industries. Mr. Strong is an Air
	Force veteran and graduated summa cum laude from National
	College with a degree in business administration and marketing.
	Yesterday, on March 17, the nation celebrated Small
	Business Development Centers Day. Small business development
	centers provide valuable resources to our small business
	constituents across the country. And I thank Mr. Strong and his
	SBDC colleagues for their critical work to promote
	entrepreneurship, small business growth, and the U.S. economy.
	Mr. Strong, thank you for joining us today and thank you
	for your service to our great country.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn.
	Thank you all for joining us today. And why don't we begin
	with opening statements from our witnesses. First I will
	recognize Ms. Shi for 5 minutes.

	STATEMENTS OF REBECCA SHI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN
	BUSINESS IMMIGRATION COALITION; BRIDGET WESTON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE
	OFFICER, SERVICE CORPS OF RETIRED EXECUTIVES (SCORE); PILAR
	GUZMAN ZAVALA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, HALF MOON EMPANADAS;
	BRUCE STRONG, STATE DIRECTOR, MINNESOTA SMALL BUSINESS
	DEVELOPMENT CENTER (SBDC)

	STATEMENT OF REBECCA SHI

	Ms. SHI. Good morning, Chairman Golden, Ranking Member
	Hagedorn. My name is Rebecca Shi and I am the executive
	director of the American Business Immigration Coalition.
	ABIC believes that the economy recovery of our nation's
	small and underserved businesses is necessary to ensure our
	nation's recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic. Small business
	owners, especially African American, immigrant, rural, and
	other underserved and isolated businesses are the engines of
	their local economies.
	ABIC is a bipartisan coalition of 1,200 employers, CEOs,
	and business associations across 13 states, including Florida,
	Texas, Maine, Colorado, New York, Arizona, Nevada, Utah,
	Illinois, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, North and South Carolina.
	Over the last 11 months ABIC created and implemented a small
	business recovery technical assistance program, leveraging a
	community navigator model. This program provides one-to-one
	technical assistance for small, underserved minority-owned
	businesses and growers to access critical resources, including
	but not limited to the Paycheck Protection program, federal and
	state small business loans and grants.
	ABIC thanks Congress and President Biden for including $100
	million for community navigators in the American Recovery. We
	also thank Chairman Ben Cardin, Senators Marco Rubio and Susan
	Collins, and Chairwoman Nydia Velazquez for working tirelessly
	over the last 11 months to make improvements to the PPP,
	especially for the smallest borrowers, growers, and their
	lenders, like CDFIs and MDIs.
	The community navigator model utilizes local nonprofits or
	501(c)(3)s in a complementary non-competitive fashion with
	existing SBA technical assistance programs, like SBDCs, the
	NDCs, and SCORE. The unparalleled magnitude of the COVID-19
	pandemic forced shutdowns and disproportionate impact of small
	minority-owned rural business and growers required a
	comprehensive, common sense, grassroots response. This
	community navigator model we utilize in Illinois, Florida,
	Texas, and South Carolina to assist growers, black and
	immigrant entrepreneurs.
	This program assisted Pilar Guzman, whom you will hear
	later, introduced by Congresswoman Salazar, the owner of Half
	Moon Empanadas. We also assisted Chalmers Carr, the owner of
	Titan Farms, the largest peach grower in the country, based in
	South Carolina. He was denied a PPP loan by his bank because
	they did not understand how to calculate his 1,200 H2A workers.
	And Stacey Armstrong, an African American woman entrepreneur, a
	single mother, who employees less than 10 people at her gourmet
	popcorn shop, and she was denied a PPP first because her bank
	prioritized larger firms.
	Each of these of entrepreneurs was ultimately assisted in
	getting a PPP loan by a community navigator and the self-help
	federal Credit Union, a CDFI that understands how to work with
	small and rural businesses.
	Through this model ABIC directly assisted 219 small
	businesses and growers to receive over $8.1 million in PPP
	loans with an average amount of $37,000. This community
	navigator model was later adopted by the State of Illinois'
	Department of Commerce and the Cook County Illinois Economic
	Recovery Initiative to disperse local business recovery grants
	allocated by the CARES Act. The State of Illinois awarded $88
	million in business recovery grants to black, rural, and
	immigrant entrepreneurs.
	I have a chart that I submitted as evidence just to show
	that using the community navigator model we were able to ramp
	up access to these grants to small, minority-owned, and rural
	businesses.
	A couple of things I just wanted to point out, that as the
	navigator model ramped up from October to December of 2020,
	black participation increased by 25 percent and Latino
	participation increased between 30 and 46 percent. Over half of
	the applications for black and Hispanic applicants were
	received in November and December as a result of the
	navigator's program technical assistance. And over two-thirds,
	nearly 70 percent of our Spanish applications came in November
	and December as the navigators did outreach and document
	preparation for these borrowers.
	In sum, our community navigators had over 20,000
	applications by the end of October and throughout the rest of
	December and we were able to award, as I said, up to $88
	million.
	The last thing that I would just mention is the mechanics
	of this navigator model. It is a hub and spoke model. The hub
	is the lead nonprofit responsible for capacity building, train
	the trainers. The spokes are the grassroots nonprofits, sort of
	your boots on the ground conducting direct technical
	assistance, document preparation for the businesses. A
	successful hub and spoke system creates an assembly line that
	feeds directly into a financial institution, a CDFI, and the
	goal is that the application is in excellent shape by the time
	it is received by that financial institution, so we can ensure
	efficiency in processing at scale.
	The second piece is there is a high accountability
	structure to this model. As you all know, nearly every CDFI, or
	financial institution sends a processing number to the PPP
	applicant when the application has been received. And so what
	we require is not just, you know, general outreach or numbers
	of emails sent or just webinars, we ask that each navigator
	must demonstrate the receipts for the outreach so that we know
	that money is getting deposited in the banks.
	So I will just wrap up and just say thank you very much for
	the opportunity to testify on behalf of this model.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
	Ms. Weston, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

	STATEMENT OF BRIDGET WESTON

	Ms. WESTON. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Hagedorn, and
	Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
	offer testimony today.
	SCORE is the nation's largest network of volunteer business
	mentors, with more than 10,000 volunteers across 240 chapters,
	offering free and confidential advice and educational workshops
	to small business owners.
	Founded in 1964 as a resource partner of the SBA, SCORE has
	helped more than 11 million entrepreneurs to start, grow, or
	troubleshoot their small business. Last year SCORE helped its
	clients to start over 45,000 new businesses and create nearly
	75,000 new jobs. And despite the challenging business climate
	of this pandemic, SCORE helped 89 percent of our clients stay
	in business throughout the year. SCORE is the most effective,
	efficient business formation and job creation engine funded by
	the federal government.
	In 2020, our costs to create a new job was $156 and $259 to
	create a new business. And for every one dollar appropriated to
	SCORE, our clients return $67 in new federal tax revenue,
	further demonstrating that SCORE is a good steward of the
	federal dollar.
	SCORE volunteers are the life blood of our organization and
	are passionate about helping small businesses succeed. Our
	volunteers come from all across the country with diverse
	backgrounds and experience in different industries. Our core
	services are mentoring, educational workshops, and online
	resources. Last year, SCORE volunteers held over 315,000
	mentoring sessions, guiding and supporting our clients through
	the tremendous challenges brought on by the pandemic.
	Many business owners told us they would to have applied for
	a PPP or an IDA loan without a SCORE mentor to walk them
	through the process. And our high rates of client satisfaction
	are captured by our net promoter score of 87, with 70 being
	considered excellent.
	In addition to mentoring, SCORE provides virtual webinars
	on our website and our SCORE chapters offer local workshops
	that are in person or virtual. These workshops drew over
	464,000 attendees last year.
	Knowing that the pandemic has hit some businesses harder
	than others, one of SCORE's key areas of focus is fostering
	diversity, equity, and inclusion, both for clients and
	volunteers. Women and minority volunteers climbed to 38 percent
	of total volunteers last year, and this 5 percent increase
	represents the single biggest annual growth since we began
	tracking these metrics in 2012. SCORE currently serves a
	diverse range of small business owners; 60 percent of our
	clients are women and 46 percent are minorities. Early this
	year we launched SCORE for black entrepreneurs as part of our
	SCORE For All initiative, to help serve disadvantaged
	businesses. We plan to add more SCORE For All campaigns to help
	these businesses survive and thrive, supporting women, rural
	entrepreneurs, veterans, the 50 and older community, and
	disabled entrepreneurs.
	SCORE is working harder than ever to reach underserved
	entrepreneurs, leveraging our community relationships
	nationally and locally. National partnerships include the BIPOC
	Support Foundation, Women Entrepreneurs Grow Global, and the
	Latino Coalition who introduce SCORE to new communities of
	small business owners. Across the nation our SCORE chapters are
	already operating as effective community navigators by working
	in local communities to help underserved business owners. For
	example, over the past year SCORE Cleveland has rededicated
	itself to bring its services to the minority business
	community. The chapter has partnered with leading nonprofits
	that target these communities and services have more than
	doubled over last year.
	When the pandemic hit, SCORE pivoted to deliver virtual
	mentoring and education without missing a day of service. And
	we accommodated a 30 percent increase in services last year
	without any increase in funding. Now, we are at capacity and
	will not be able to grow without additional resources. Based on
	SCORE's continued demonstrated impact, increased demand for
	services, and our plans to reach more business owners in
	underserved and disadvantaged communities, SCORE is
	respectfully respecting an increase, a $9.5 million in funding,
	for a total FY2 appropriation of $21.7 million. That additional
	funding would be spent to increase mentoring and education by
	reducing the administrative burden on volunteers, provide more
	direct funding to local chapters for community outreach, and
	focus to help more underserved businesses.
	With this relatively small investment we can provide even
	greater value to the business owners and the economy. The
	increased funding would allow us to deliver more than half a
	million client services, with a projected outcome of 100,000
	additional new businesses started or jobs created.
	SCORE's mentoring and education are critical to helping
	small businesses overcome their challenges and succeed. SCORE
	stands ready to help our nation's most vulnerable small
	business owners so they can keep their doors open and keep
	people employed.
	Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to
	your questions.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
	Ms. Zavala, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

	STATEMENT OF PILAR GUZMAN ZAVALA

	Ms. ZAVALA. Hello. Hi, everybody. It is an honor to be
	speaking with you all today. Thank you, everyone, for taking
	the time to listen to my story. I think it is a story that
	reflects, you know, the reality of many small businesses like
	mine.
	Thank you, Congresswoman Salazar, for that kind
	introduction. I am here in Miami, 77 degrees. But so my name is
	Pilar Guzman Zavala and I am the CEO of Half Moon Empanadas. I
	represent one of the almost, you know, more than 30 billion
	small businesses in America. I also represent today the
	minority in every sense, you know, I am a woman, I am Hispanic,
	I am an immigrant. And now my company is in an industry where
	there have been so much suffering and torture that I am also
	one of the, you know, minority restaurants that are still open.
	You know, I came to America from Mexico when I was 22 years
	old, right after college. I went to Georgetown School of
	Foreign Service because I wanted to understand how to create
	economic development, how to elevate poverty. Little did I know
	back then that I would end up creating, you know, an impact as
	an entrepreneur in Miami and that my dreams will become clear
	in a, you know, in a new food category in America with
	empanadas, and that this immigrant that has a hard time
	speaking in English in Georgetown would end up picking the
	President of the United States.
	You know, Half Moon Empanadas, it is a small business in
	Miami with a concept of empanadas. Before the pandemic--we have
	been in business 12 years, before the pandemic was had 14
	stores open. The Miami Airport, the University of Miami,
	different non-traditional locations here. And, you know, our
	story wasn't easy. We took us--from the beginning, it took us 7
	years to get a paycheck from our company. We did everything
	wrong and we almost went bankrupt. It took us 10 banks locally
	to actually get us our first financing for our store in the
	airport. So I do know what it is to go through a financial
	system and understand how that works.
	You know, when COVID hit, it was literally a year ago,
	March 13. That week we saw all of our stores closed. In a week,
	everything was like what happened. It was really scary and I
	see how great and how blessed we are to live in this country
	because we were able to apply to PPP. It took us three banks.
	It took us three banks to get noes because the large fund was
	not very--it was not responsive. The medium bank was
	overwhelmed. And so I--thanks to the community navigator, I was
	able to get, you know, the support that we needed. You know,
	they connected us with a local bank that approved us quickly. I
	think 2 days we were approved. This helped us to stay afloat
	and keep our salaries, you know, people in payroll. And because
	I am also a mentor here in the community, and I am part of a
	network of businesses, I joined the effort, too. And we were
	able to help with ABIC, with Becca's team and Impact Fund here
	in Miami, other women and Hispanic-owned companies, to get the
	support. From processing documentation and gathering paperwork.
	We actually got a lot of these businesses approved for PPP.
	And so besides the PPP, we though we entrepreneurs don't
	stop we don't like to stay still. You know, we didn't stop
	there as a company. We did not only rely on help of the
	government, we reinvented ourselves, we became a restaurant in
	Miami making meals for seniors through our Miami-Dade County
	contract and we started our efforts in the digital space, you
	know, to send empanadas locally and nationally.
	So when I think about this whole year, I actually was
	thinking about [inaudible]. It must have been so hard for all
	you guys, government officials, you know, trying to figure out
	what to do and coming up with an entire package to save our
	economy and our community. So I wanted to at least to take 2
	seconds to thank you for the work you have done and for the
	effort, because it truly has made a difference in many
	businesses like mine.
	I had the honor to speak to President Biden twice in the
	last month. On our first call, you know, I raised my hand. My
	husband could not believe that I actually interrupted the
	President and I said could I please give you a suggestion. And
	my suggestion to him was please remember that the small
	businesses are not the large 300 businesses, it is--there are a
	lot of tiny businesses that are what I consider truly a small,
	of one, five, ten, twenty people, and that we need to focus on
	that because we are--we sustain the economy.
	So as we speak today, I am opening one store in
	Congresswoman Salazar's district. I cannot express to you how
	challenging it has been to open that store, because of COVID,
	because how hard it has been to hire. It is just really
	difficult compared to before. But I am a believer and I believe
	change is possible and I truly believe that challenges bring
	opportunities. And so I think this whole crisis has shown us,
	you know, all of us how to work together and how to actually
	focus on the things that really matter.
	I am thankful for President Biden's leadership and for you
	guys' leadership, for Congress to approve, you know, the help.
	I do believe that this Community Navigator Program was helpful
	to me and to many here locally and that we should, you know,
	continue to do this kind of work.
	Thank you so much for your time and your support.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
	And finally we will recognize Mr. Strong for 5 minutes.

	STATEMENT OF BRUCE STRONG

	Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Chairman Golden. Thanks also to
	Ranking Member Jim Hagedorn and Member Pete Stauber, who are
	both from the great State of Minnesota, where I live and work.
	I would also like to recognize Nydia Velazquez, Chairwoman of
	the House Small Business Committee, Ranking Member Blaine
	Luetkemeyer, and Representatives Angie Craig and Dean Phillips,
	who are also from Minnesota, for their many years of service
	and tireless support of small businesses throughout the
	country.
	My name is Bruce Strong and I am the state director of the
	Minnesota Small Business Development Network, or SBDC.
	SBDCs have been operating throughout the country for more
	than 40 years and in Minnesota alone during that time we've
	provided more than 960,000 professional consulting hours to
	help 95,000 clients start 5,200 businesses, helped more than
	80,000 existing businesses, and helped them all to secure $3.2
	billion in new business capital. Since March of last year our
	staff has worked tirelessly and literally day and night to
	double the number of clients that we served in a typical year
	in response to the COVID pandemic. Demand for SBDC assistance
	skyrocketed as business owners needed help with applications
	for the PPP and EIDL loan programs, or to reimagine their
	businesses due to government-ordered shutdowns.
	Recently the U.S. Small Business Administration introduced
	the Community Navigators Program. They state the intent of the
	program is to broaden and intensify outreach and technical
	assistance to targeted sectors of the small business community,
	including persons with disabilities, women, veterans, and/or
	those in minority, immigrant, rural, or other underserved
	communities using a hub and spoke delivery model. We don't yet
	have the details as to exactly how the program will operate,
	but several SBDCs, including Minnesota, are working with SBA on
	a pilot of the program to build models for the future of this
	effort. A total of $175 million has been allocated to the
	program under the American Rescue Plan. This is a significant
	sum and we are pleased to be working with SBA to develop the
	program. Assuming, that is, there is no requirement to provide
	matching funds for the program.
	SBDCs have long worked with other community organizations
	to reach rural and underserved markets, but like other
	businesses, the pandemic forced us to reimagine our own
	business model. To continue meeting the surge in demand, we are
	creating even more partnerships between the SBDC and local
	community organizations. In Minnesota, for instance, we just
	signed a contract with First Children's Finance to provide
	specialized assistance to new and existing childcare
	businesses. We are working to complete a similar contract with
	the African Development Center to increase their services
	throughout the state, and I am seeking to create even more
	partnerships.
	The Northern California SBDC has just launched a new
	inclusivity project that provides a simple but effective
	approach to reach out to the black and African community there.
	It goes beyond simply providing outreach by creating an actual
	challenge for the SBDC and local partners to provide real
	social change to obtain capital and start new black-owned
	businesses. The project has seen tremendous early success and
	was met with great enthusiasm when presented to SBDC state
	directors across the country just last week. So much so, that
	we will be soon adopting this project for implementation in
	America's SBDCs everywhere.
	America's SBDC wishes to express strong support for the
	Community Navigators Program and we envision it will fit
	perfectly into these plans. We are particularly supportive of
	the outreach portion of the funding. SBDCs have too long been a
	``best-kept secret''. We have been prohibited from marketing
	our services and that has truly hampered our outreach. That
	prohibition has only recently been lifted by the SBA. The
	Community Navigator Program will ensure that entrepreneurship
	education reaches all parts of the small business community,
	and it will go a long way to help our efforts to reopen the
	economy.
	Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you to all of our witnesses and we
	appreciate all the testimony that you shared with us.
	I will now move to questions and I will begin by
	recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
	I think I will begin with Mr. Strong. I did want to point
	out that I agree with Mr. Hagedorn that the PPP program worked
	well. For that matter, I agree with pretty much everyone that
	has joined us and testified today about that as well. I also
	look forward to hearing a little bit about H.R. 1411, your bill
	on PPP in support of farm partnerships. Last Congress you
	joined me, Congressman Hagedorn, in cosponsoring the SBDC
	Reauthorization legislation, which we passed through the House.
	Did not get taken up by the Small Business Committee in the
	Senate, so hopefully we can continue that work in this
	congress, but.
	Mr. Strong, obviously there are some who might naturally
	conclude that some of the groups out there, like SBDCs or
	SCORE, could view the creation of a new program such as this
	one as potentially duplicative or in competition with the
	services you provide. You just ended up by putting forward
	really an endorsement of the program. So I wanted to give you
	the opportunity to say a little bit more about the potential
	effects of the program, how you think it will interact with
	SBDCs. And also if you have any concerns that should be avoided
	in order to make sure that the programs are really
	complementary.
	Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Chairman Golden.
	I don't view the program as being duplicative or
	competitive with what we are already doing. Rather, I view it
	as being complementary to what we are already doing. As I
	mentioned, we have long had partnerships with other local
	organizations to help broaden the reach of the SBDC and
	particularly to provide deep reach into those markets that have
	typically been underserved. We have worked with the
	Metropolitan Economic Development Association, or MEDA, with
	the Neighborhood Development Center, with other local nonprofit
	groups and specifically those that serve communities and
	communities of color.
	So, again, I believe that the Navigator Program will help
	us reach even more community organizations and partner with
	more organizations as we have recently done with the African
	Development Center and First Children's Finance here in
	Minnesota.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much. And you made a great
	point, by the way about previous prohibitions on marketing and
	outreach. What good are these services to businesses if they
	don't know that they exist in the first place. So look forward
	to continue to work with the SBDCs and SCORE and others on
	fixing that problem in this Congress as well.
	Next I guess I would direct a question to Ms. Weston from
	SCORE.
	Through your work with underserved and rural small business
	owners and entrepreneurs, what resources and technical support
	are most often requested? And how do you think this new
	partnership with the Community Navigator Program can help
	address these?
	Ms. WESTON. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
	And with SCORE mentors seeing tens of thousands of small
	business owners each year we really do have a pulse on what the
	challenges that small business owners are facing. In our
	mentoring sessions the common themes that our mentors hear do
	relate to funding. Do these small business have position
	funding or cash flow, and, along those lines too, attracting
	and retaining customers. Those are the two biggest challenges
	that we see.
	With SCORE partnering across the country with local
	community partners, as well as nationally with some of the
	partnerships I had mentioned previously, it helps connect those
	business owners struggling with funding opportunities, access
	to capital, cash flow questions, or customer questions with
	those people that have been there, done that expertise. We have
	seen that the PPP and EIDL programs were more successful when
	they were partnered with a mentor like SCORE, SBDC. And we want
	these new federally funded opportunities, which are extremely
	valuable to these business owners, be able to take advantage of
	it. And SCORE mentors are ready to help those most vulnerable
	business owners navigate. The key is to make sure that they are
	connected to those disadvantaged and underserved communities.
	We are doing that already across SCORE chapters. Maine, for
	example, partners with a number or organizations like the USDA,
	the Maine Farmland Trust, to make sure that that one-on-one
	business mentoring service is provided to make sure they have
	the best opportunity for success.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much for that. And I hear
	repeatedly from business owners in Maine about how valuable the
	programs and services offered by SCORE are in starting
	businesses and making tough decision to keep them going as
	well. So thank you for that partnership in Maine.
	My time has expired and the Ranking Member, Mr. Hagedorn,
	is now recognized for 5 minutes.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	You know, I was listening to testimony, especially from Ms.
	Shi and Ms. Zavala, and they were saying how important it is to
	make sure that our small businesses, all of them, have access
	to especially Paycheck Protection Program and everything else
	needed in order to get, especially at this time, from one side
	of the Coronavirus to the other. And so I think the work of the
	Committee, led by our Committee Chairwoman Velazquez and
	ranking Republican Luetkemeyer, was--and you, Mr. Chairman as
	well, and many Members of this Subcommittee, all of them, I
	think to extend the Paycheck Protection Program by 60 days,
	that bill that was just passed this week, pretty important. So
	hopefully we can work with our Senate colleagues and get that
	done and make sure that all of our businesses are cared for and
	have proper access to the program.
	So, you know, Mr. Strong, I listened to your testimony. It
	is very good. And I certainly am supportive of small business
	development centers and women's business centers, veteran's
	business center, SCORE, you know, all of it. But you said you
	think this is more of a cooperative deal, these navigators, it
	is not going to be competition with you. What do you foresee
	them going out and basically bringing the business back to you?
	Is that kind of the concept? Or could you, you know, let me
	know what your thoughts are on that?
	Mr. STRONG. Sure. Thank you, Representative Hagedorn and
	Chairman Golden for that question.
	Again, the vision for the delivery is a hub and spoke
	model. In my estimation that is the SBDC acting as the hub and
	these local community partners acting as the spokes. That is
	similar to how our model has worked in the past. Oftentimes,
	particularly with communities of color, underserved markets and
	rural markets, folks really want to talk to somebody from their
	own community. They want someone that looks like them that can
	identify with them, and that is the strength in my estimation
	of the community partners in this hub and spoke and approach.
	So I do believe it is going to be effective. I think the
	outreach can actually be a combination of that provided by the
	hub, by the SBDC, to make sure that folks are aware that the
	Community Navigator Program exists and what it does, but then
	also those local partners who can reach out specifically to the
	groups within their local markets and bring clients into the
	program that way as well.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. I do really appreciate the work
	that you do on behalf of Minnesotans and have spoken to many of
	your clients over the last several years who have been, you
	know, very much aided by the work that you perform.
	And during the Obama Administration we had Obamacare and we
	had these community navigators then and there were some
	problems with, you know, fraud and just other types of things.
	Are there standards in place do you think with the Small
	Business Administration that we can make sure that these folks
	are going to be trained up properly and we won't have any legal
	or ethical problems?
	Mr. Strong, that is for you again.
	Mr. STRONG. Representative Hagedorn, yes, I do--I believe
	SBA does a great job of oversight of the program that we
	currently run, our regular core program that has been in
	operation for 40 years. They have strong measures in terms of
	metrics and goals that we must achieve under that program. I
	believe the same will be true under the Navigator Program. And
	as long as we have a clear objective as to what this program is
	to do and what it is to accomplish, I am fully confident that
	the SBDCs will absolutely come to bat and make sure this
	program is successful, that it meets the actual challenges.
	That is already being demonstrated most recently in this
	Northern California SBDC program.
	So, absolutely, I believe we will--once we set clear
	objectives and metrics for the program, we will be able to
	accomplish them.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. I hope Members on both sides would make sure
	we do the proper oversight and follow up on that and make sure
	what you are saying is going to work out.
	Lastly, real quickly, on broadband access--and I will stay
	with you, Mr. Strong, since we only have about 30 seconds--how
	important it is that we make sure that folks, not just in rural
	communities, but all across the country, wherever they might
	be, have access to broadband and high speed access in order to
	do their work and to market their businesses and so forth?
	Mr. STRONG. Thanks again for that question, Representative
	Hagedorn.
	Clearly the COVID pandemic underlined the importance of a
	strong broadband network. When we are all confined to our homes
	and required to work from our homes, without a strong broadband
	network, we are sunk. And that is why I believe that support
	for broadband funding is critical. Here in Minnesota the
	legislature is contemplating large scale programs to improve
	and increase the broadband network. I hope that the same--I
	trust the same is happening in other states across the country
	and I hope nationally we can come to a broadband program that
	helps provide a stronger network across the entire country.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. I am out of time. Appreciate it.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
	expired. The gentleman yields back.
	I will now recognize Representative Jason Crow, Chairman of
	the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce
	Development.
	Mr. CROW. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to all the
	witnesses for coming in today. Really great testimony and
	really good information for us to look at these programs and
	how to better improve them.
	You know, when I think about the Community Navigator
	Program I am reminded of this program in my district where the
	City of Aurora actually partners with the local nonprofit, the
	Village Exchange Center; has a program called the Natural
	Helpers Program where immigrants and refugees who have been
	here longer actually help fellow immigrants and refugees who
	have recently arrived actually navigate nonprofit resources and
	find their way around the community and better integrate it.
	And I think it is within that spirit that the Community
	Navigator pilot program is trying to help our underserved
	businesses the most.
	So in that vein, starting with Ms. Shi, Ms. Shi, can you
	just tell me your thoughts on what types of private, nonprofit
	that are best suited to serve as community navigators?
	Ms. SHI. Thank you so much for the question, Congressman.
	We had the same experience at the start of the pandemic.
	After the Paycheck Protection Program was rolled out, immigrant
	owned businesses, refugee owned businesses, black owned
	businesses, you know, came to us and they had not heard about
	these other SBA programs or SBDCs. And so we trained local
	nonprofits, so nonprofits that they know in their community,
	that perhaps that they have gone there for English classes or
	citizenship classes. And so they started doing the one-to-one
	document preparation, outreach, and education about the PPP and
	[Audio malfunction.]. Sometimes you can open [Audio
	malfunction.] and, as you know, unique SBA processes where
	there will be a host of hand holding and to get them access
	[Audio malfunction.] three lenders that denied her until we had
	a navigator that assisted her. And Pilar is much more
	sophisticated compared to some of our small businesses and sole
	proprietors [Audio malfunction.] to do this kind of work for
	the ones that have the grassroots [Audio malfunction.] to our
	businesses, our sole proprietors, to all [Audio malfunction.]
	say do you know about these programs [Audio malfunction.]. And
	thanks to all of you [Audio malfunction.] PPP, but also be
	retroactive [Audio malfunction.]. This is the kind of outreach
	that is important and one they are made aware of the program,
	then our navigators like hold their hand and go through the
	entire document preparation for them. You know, because of the
	pandemic, for a lot of these smallest businesses, this is their
	first interaction with a government loan or a grant program,
	right. And so, you know, they are afraid, they are concerned
	and it is--you know, we all know if you check the wrong box,
	right, that affects your credit score. And then, you know,
	getting them access to a lender.
	So I would say the best types of nonprofits are not so
	much--you know, in our experience, the ones that have done this
	work before, but really are willing to get in the gutter and be
	on the ground and hold the hands of our small businesses and
	get them through from the beginning to the end. And we have a
	very, very rigorous accountability measure. Because like with
	Pilar, we need to show that the money--so.
	Mr. CROW. Ms. Shi, I will--yeah, I will stop you there. I
	want to give Ms. Zavala an opportunity to weigh in as well. But
	I appreciate that perspective and your thoughts on that very
	much.
	Ms. Zavala, any thoughts on what you think would be the
	best nonprofits that could perform these types of services?
	Ms. ZAVALA. Yes. Thank you for the question.
	I saw that the CDFIs, the small--really small one branch,
	you know, banks, the Axiom--which now I think it is a different
	name--those are organizations that are close to the small--what
	I mean when I say close is they understand the issues they have
	with not having the perfect P&L, right. I have a perfect P&L. I
	didn't have it 10 years ago. So understanding--I think what is
	good about working with the local organizations is that they
	understand how to work on the context of that small business,
	which banks don't understand.
	So and I think the issue of--you know, it is an issue of
	capacity. There is a lot of--there is the SBA, but is there the
	capacity to serve all of these? I think the numbers show that
	there is not the capacity. We need more.
	Mr. CROW. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I am out of time, but
	really, really great thoughts.
	Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you.
	Mr. CROW. Thank you very much.
	Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
	Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
	I will now recognize Representative Roger Williams, Vice
	Ranking Member of the full Committee.
	Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your
	leadership. Ranking Member, thank you. And our witnesses, thank
	all of you for being here today.
	I am a small business owner myself. I have been in business
	50 years and still have my business and employ hundreds of
	people back in Texas. And I appreciate your stories. They are
	just so--they show the power of this great country.
	Attending a trade school and learning a skill can be just
	as valuable as going to a traditional four year college. I am a
	strong advocate of career and technical education programs and
	push back against the belief that a college degree is necessary
	to get ahead in America. If someone learns a skill they are on
	their way to eventually translating their abilities into
	starting their own small business. However, learning how to run
	a small business is not easy task, as we all know.
	So my question, to start out with, Ms. Weston, you touched
	a little bit about this earlier, but maybe you can go deeper,
	can you discuss some of the largest challenges you see from
	young entrepreneurs who come to your organization wanting to
	take a chance and start their own businesses and how any way
	the SBA can better utilize resources to spur new business
	creation? Because at the end of the day, risk and reward is the
	American dream.
	Ms. WESTON. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
	And we know at SCORE that being an entrepreneur or a small
	business owner--and you know this too--is challenging under the
	best of circumstances. And this year has been hard on everyone.
	SCORE has data that there are some groups of businesses
	that have struggled more than others, but being a business
	owner and an entrepreneur you feel that you have to be that
	person who does everything, that you--you know, you are the
	Jack or Jill of all trades and you have to wear all of the
	hats. What SCORE and SBDC and other organizations that provide
	technical support do, is we are that step by step guide to
	these businesses that help them fill those gaps when they don't
	have that information on the P&L, like small business centers
	do. You might be an expert as, you know, a plumber or a hair
	stylist, but you don't necessarily have that knowledge about
	how to do your accounting. That is where SCORE and the SBA
	resources come into play. SCORE stands ready for small business
	support for everyone. Some business owners do have unique
	challenges. We have been talking about historically under-
	represented groups and rural business owners and there are some
	needs that those groups have a greater need for, and we can
	address those too.
	The important thing is, with 30 million small business
	owners out there that we as the resource partners and the
	technical assistance, get out there, get the word out, connect
	with these community organizations that have the reach into
	those communities so that these business owners know SCORE and
	other resource partners are here to help and provide that
	support. And when the business owner steps away and uses a
	mentor to answer those questions, they are much more likely to
	successful.
	Mr. WILLIAMS. That is great. I think your support find
	there is a big difference between the sale of dollar and the
	gross of dollar. So thank you for helping on that.
	Secondly, I think the Navigator Program has the potential
	to help a large number of small businesses realize the
	resources that they have at their disposal. However, in the
	past, there have been some serious issues of fraud, and we have
	talked about that this morning, and of leaking sensitive
	consumer information that led to some security threats against
	individuals.
	Since we just allocated $100 million to this program, we
	must make sure that we are making good--or being good stewards
	of taxpayer dollars and not repeating the mistakes of the past.
	So, Ms. Shi, for you can you discuss what safeguards the
	SBA should put in place to ensure that this program is not
	opening itself up to waste, fraud, and abuse?
	Ms. SHI. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much,
	Congressman, for that question. And that is extremely
	important.
	So when we ran the navigator model in several states,
	including Texas, Florida, and South Carolina, we asked all of
	our navigators to show receipts for the PPP received by their
	small businesses. So that is part of our accountability
	structure. You know, I think it is very easy just to send a
	whole bunch of emails and do a webinar and say that, you know,
	we assisted businesses, right, but we actually--especially
	during this global pandemic as our businesses are struggling--
	we need to see that these funds are getting into the bank
	accounts of our small businesses as well as staying with them
	to go through the forgiveness process to turn the loan into a
	grant. So that is number one.
	And number two is working with a trusted CDFI--and the I--
	or financial institution, to make sure that, you know, all the
	Ts are crossed, Is are dotted. And, you know, as we know with
	our financial institutions, there are also multiple layers of
	assurance and accountability.
	But, so that is extremely important to us and this is
	taxpayer dollars and these are the local engines of our
	economy. And so we need to make sure that these funds are
	getting to the folks that need it the most.
	Mr. WILLIAMS. Okay. Thank you to the witness. And I yield
	my time back.
	Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
	I will now recognize Representative Pete Stauber from
	Minnesota's 8th District.
	Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thanks to all the
	witnesses for providing the testimony today.
	And, Mr. Strong, thanks once again for coming to our Small
	Business Committee hearing and testifying. I am sure all the
	Minnesota Members really appreciate you coming here again and
	giving us quality time.
	I would just like to give you a moment to share what worked
	for the Minnesota SBDCs, what has it looked like during the
	pandemic, and how has it changed from what you had done prior
	to the pandemic?
	Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Representative Stauber. Thank you
	for those kind words.
	What has changed for us is the sheer volume of the
	questions and the demand that we are receiving from the public.
	Obviously the Paycheck Protection Program and the EIDL loan
	programs were critical to those small businesses that were most
	affected as a result of the pandemic. And helping those
	businesses wade through the myriad regulations for both
	programs, both the PPP and EIDL loan programs, and the changing
	requirements that occurred during the launch of those programs,
	just caused so much confusion in the marketplace. We spent a
	great deal of time just trying to decipher those changes
	ourselves and then interpret those changes to the small
	business community so that we could most effectively help them
	apply for their loan, or help them apply for forgiveness under
	the Paycheck Protection Program. We are still to some extent
	struggling with issues regarding that. And this latest deadline
	of the Paycheck Protection Program expiring and hopefully being
	extended just kind of creates ripples throughout that program.
	As Chairman Golden stated, SBA processed 14 years-worth of
	loan applications in a 14-day period of time.
	Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Strong----
	Mr. STRONG. That, you know, by itself is going to cause
	problems.
	Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Strong, I want to just thank you and your
	organization for helping out the small businesses and helping
	with the lending institutions, because when we passed that
	legislation there were some blind spots. And when we knew
	better, we did better with the flexibility portion afterwards.
	Mr. Strong, prior to the pandemic northern Minnesota was
	plagued with a childcare desert. The situation got worse during
	the pandemic. In your testimony you mentioned that Minnesota
	SBDC signed a contract with First Children's Finance to provide
	specialized assistance to new and existing childcare
	businesses.
	Can you elaborate on this? On the work you are doing?
	Mr. STRONG. Certainly. Thank you again for the question.
	First Children's Finance has been around for a long time.
	They are a nonprofit group, they are a CDFI as well. They
	specialize in helping childcare businesses with all of the
	nuances, the legislation, and the requirements that are
	expected of a childcare business. And so partnering with them
	the SBDC will help broaden--the outreach will help broaden
	their outreach. It helps bring funding to them so they can pay
	additional counselors to come alongside. But it also helps the
	SBDC because we can help with the business aspect of running a
	childcare business, even though we may not necessarily
	understand all of the nuances of those requirements.
	And you are exactly right, the childcare industry was
	struggling even pre-COVID. In Minnesota we found that small
	businesses were unable to grow because their employees weren't
	able to find adequate childcare, particularly in rural markets.
	We are hoping and trusting--we believe that partnering with
	First Children's Finance will be of great benefit to the SBDC
	and all Minnesota businesses.
	Mr. STAUBER. And, Mr. Strong, I think that is really great
	news because we know when there is adequate, secure childcare
	that benefits the economy, especially coming out of this COVID
	crisis. We want to make sure that the workforce is there to be
	had and having safe, secure childcare is certainly a priority.
	So, Mr. Strong, once again, thank you for your testimony,
	and we will see you shortly.
	And, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
	Mr. STRONG. Thank you.
	Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
	I will now recognize Representative Claudia Tenney from New
	York's 22nd.
	Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
	Ranking Member Hagedorn, and the witnesses as well. Great to
	hear from all of you. And thank you for holding this important
	hearing.
	Obviously the COVID-19 situation has been challenging for
	all of us, all Americans, and especially our small business
	community, which are truly the backbone of our economy. And I
	can't emphasize that enough. As a small business owner in New
	York's 22nd District, over 94 percent of the workforce in my
	district come from small businesses. So our community's
	success, our economic success, depends on the success of our
	small businesses.
	Last week I launched a small business outreach tour to meet
	with business leaders and employers across the 22nd District.
	So far I have met with over 30 businesses, have spoken with
	hundreds in the past, and have had the opportunity to discuss
	their priorities and their needs for relief and recovery.
	The two common questions that I get are what programs and
	resources are available and, second, how do we navigate some of
	these cumbersome applications processes and rules. And I know
	as a business owner, also as an attorney, federal programs, you
	know, have helped thousands of businesses in my state,
	particularly in our underserved and rural communities, which my
	district is. We must continue to reach out to these underserved
	communities and educate our employers on how to use these
	resources and their employees. It is also imperative to
	understand that these programs need to be made simpler and
	easier to use because so many small business owners are so busy
	running their businesses they really don't have time to hire
	compliance teams and teams of lawyers. And I know that as my
	business was started over 75 years ago and I have been one of
	the owners for over 35 years, so I understand how complex this
	can be. And I really appreciate our witnesses.
	And my first question--and some of these have been
	answered--I would like to address to Ms. Weston. And first I
	want to say thank you so much for SCORE. I have--as a business
	owner also, many of my colleagues have used SCORE and it has
	been a wonderful asset to people in the business community. So
	I just wanted to ask you, so many of these business owners have
	said this is--getting the money and the Navigator Program has
	been so daunting. What do you consider the biggest barrier and
	what recommendations do you have to fix those issues? Briefly,
	if you could.
	Ms. WESTON. Well, thank you so much for the question,
	Congresswoman. And maybe one day you will consider becoming a
	SCORE volunteer since you are a small business owner yourself.
	So one of the things that we heard from our clients,
	especially as it relates to PPP and EIDL, was just that
	Congress acted so quickly, there was such a drive to help these
	small business owners, and when things were really done quickly
	there was confusion--how to apply, who can apply for these
	loans, what that process is. And so what SCORE was able to do
	is set up our small business resilience program, which paired
	mentoring, check list, and step-by-step guides that were
	industry specific to help these businesses navigate the
	challenges they are facing.
	So we saw nearly 600,000 people through that portal to help
	answer questions in a timely, specific, guided fashion so that
	we could get them to the right lender, the right program, the
	right resource. What we have seen is that these guides, mentors
	from SCORE or other resource programs, are what can really help
	make these federally funded programs successful. And the
	communication would be helpful across lines collaborating with
	other resource partners and other agencies.
	Ms. TENNEY. And as you say that, I know you recommend more
	communication. We also have state programs that are now going
	to be enhancing some of the federal programs. And so that is
	where I consider SCORE would be a great resource for us to be
	able to access them.
	Thank you, though. I appreciate that.
	And for Mr. Strong, I wanted to ask a question about
	childcare, which is really important to me as a single mom, how
	important it is to have reliable safe childcare. But Mr.
	Stauber hit that question, but I was just going to ask you in
	looking at this model, a lot of businesses--this pandemic is
	forcing everyone to reimagine their business model. And in
	response to the demand, what would you say for the SBDC, what
	could we implement in a rural setting to help people in a
	pandemic for the future and how do we best reach out to some of
	these people in rural settings? I am running out of time, but
	if you could answer real quick, I would appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	I guess I will yield my time back. I am sorry.
	Mr. STRONG. I lost your audio. I couldn't get the question.
	Ms. TENNEY. Mr. Chairman, we will address it in another
	meeting.
	Thank you so much. We will catch up with you in a private
	setting.
	Thank you.
	Chairman GOLDEN. The gentlewoman yields. Sorry about the
	technical difficulties. And we can submit it for the record if
	you like.
	Ms. TENNEY. Absolutely. You need more broadband. Thank you.
	Chairman GOLDEN. That is the truth.
	I will now recognize the Ranking Member of the full
	Committee, Blaine Luetkemeyer from Missouri's 3rd Congressional
	District.
	Welcome, Ranking Member Luetkemeyer.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all
	of the witnesses.
	I have been listening in my office and trying to keep a lot
	of balls in the air this morning here. I apologize for getting
	here a little late. But, you know, one of the things that
	concerns me are--that I have been watching here is that, you
	know, I had a meeting this week with an SBIC group, a small
	business investor, and they were telling me that they were
	doing basically what the navigator proposal in this CARES Act,
	or the funding bill, actually was doing. So I mean I am
	curious--you know, they were trying to bring together all the
	different groups, whether the chamber or the libraries--in fact
	is one of the groups they were talking about, as well as
	historic and black colleges that they were working with and
	some other partners. So if they are already doing this, is this
	really necessary? What is your--can you explain to me? Mr.
	Strong, for instance, can you give me the reason why this is a
	good deal? Or should we continue it or change it around? Or
	what is your suggestion here?
	Mr. STRONG. I am sorry, Congressman. I lost the last part
	of your question.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. I was curious as to whether you
	believed--or what your opinion would be with regards to the
	necessity of the Community Navigators pilot program here in the
	COVID relief bill because I was talking with some folks in SBIC
	this week and they do the same thing--some SBDC folks that are
	doing the same thing.
	So are we duplicating services I guess is my question?
	Mr. STRONG. Well, thank you, Congressman. I appreciate the
	question.
	And, again, it is going to be a challenge. It is always a
	challenge, especially when Congress is trying to act in as
	robust a fashion as they are. It seems like a lot of these
	programs are duplicative, but I think it is simply going to
	help increase the outreach and the effectiveness of the
	partnerships between SCORE, the SBDCs, the Women's Business
	Centers, and all of their local community organizations to
	provide even greater outreach into markets that haven't
	historically been very well served.
	We continue to hear about underserved markets, particularly
	in communities of color and in rural markets. The more folks we
	can have out there helping the existing small businesses and
	potential small businesses, I think the better.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Can you explain to me who all is going to
	qualify for this money and how they get it?
	Mr. STRONG. No, I am afraid I can't. We haven't gotten the
	details of the program yet. I have only seen it in concept
	form. We are anxiously awaiting what the actual details of the
	program will be, eligibility criteria, and more importantly, or
	just as importantly, the metrics and goals that we hope to
	achieve through the program. I think that speaks to your
	question about effective use of this funding. We need to have
	clear cut goals, we need to have clear cut eligibility, and we
	need to have clear cut metrics for the outcomes of the program
	to evaluate its success.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. If we are delaying--and SBA has got a lot
	of balls in the air right now. They have got a lot on their
	plate and I am very concerned about that. I am working with
	them on a lot of other issues right now. And if it is going to
	be a delay in getting this information out, putting this
	program together, how worthwhile is it if you wait until
	September to get it done, for instance? If we wait, you know, 4
	or 5 months here, is it still going to be effective? Or is it--
	at that point we will be over the hump, so to speak, such that
	it is not going to be necessary?
	Mr. STRONG. Thanks again, Congressman for the question.
	I believe that the problem with underserved markets has
	been around a lot longer than the COVID pandemic. I think
	anything that we can do to help increase outreach to those
	markets is going to be beneficial. You know, if a delay--and
	hopefully it won't be 4 or 5 months before we get clearer
	marching orders on the pilot program isn't necessarily going to
	have an overall impact on its effectiveness.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Just a quick question for you with regards
	to the other programs that are out there. I am not sure you are
	involved with them, but just to kind of get your opinion on
	them real quickly. With regards to the restaurant program, for
	instance, are you working with any of the groups? Do you think
	that is going to be pretty impactful, those restaurant grants?
	Mr. STRONG. I don't think there is a more important program
	out there than the restaurant grants. But, again, we have seen
	absolutely no details on what it will do or how it will work.
	But I can tell you--and Minnesota is not unique here--the
	hospitality industry has been decimated as a result of COVID
	and the required business closures that took effect as a result
	of that.
	So absolutely we must provide some support to the
	restaurants and hospitality industry.
	Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Well, I think the key--I thank the
	Chairman for his diligence here--but I think the key is going
	to be how these grants are doled out, how they are applied for,
	and how they--what kind of oversight is provided over them
	because I think it is a situation that is ripe for fraud if we
	are not careful. And I think hopefully you will work with us to
	provide some expertise in this so we can find a way to minimize
	that.
	With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
	Thank you.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. The gentleman yields.
	And we would now recognize Representative Maria Salazar
	from Florida's 27th for 5 minutes.
	Ms. SALAZAR. Yes, and thank you very much, Chairman.
	I want to congratulate Ms. Pilar Guzman because I think you
	are the epitome of the American dream and we need more people
	like you in this country. People that came with really not
	knowing any English, as you said, but willing to work and to
	take advantage of this fantastic American dream, or the
	American system that the Founding Fathers put together for
	people like you and me. So I think that we not only have love,
	but gratitude for this country. And I am sure that you feel the
	same way.
	And, look, not only were you able to come, you were able to
	stay, you learned the language, you went to school, and then
	you put together a business, came COVID, and the government
	gave you money so you could keep that business. Where does that
	happen? Nowhere else. Is that true? Nowhere else. And that is
	why I congratulate you and I think that we Hispanic Americans,
	first generation, we should celebrate what a fantastic country
	we have. And that is why I am in Congress, because--and you are
	in business--because we want to keep this system for the future
	of our children.
	Am I right?
	Ms. ZAVALA. Yes, I support that 100 percent.
	Ms. SALAZAR. and I just wanted to ask you, in which way we
	could spread the word and help other businesses like yours,
	specifically in our district, Miami and south Florida in order
	to--what else do you think we could do in order to send a
	message and give the info to people like you in order to
	continue living the American dream?
	Ms. ZAVALA. Yeah, thank you for that question,
	Congresswoman.
	I think that it is crucial that we support groups like
	ABIC, like Impact Fund here in Miami. I saw how hard it was for
	me, and I am a little bit sophisticated in the sense of, you
	know, I have systems in place, I have, you know, financials in
	place. It is so hard as a small business to understand what the
	PPP was, how to apply to it. You know, the bank wasn't
	replying. So, you know, ABIC in that sense helped me connect to
	the opportunity because I couldn't get in. With all my network
	in Miami, I could not get the PPP. So imagine the majority of
	the businesses that don't have that network, that are not
	mentors to other businesses, that don't have the community
	connections, they need ABIC, they need Impact Fund.
	And what I say is, you know, it is great with the SBA, you
	know, has done, you know, during the crisis and before, but we
	must recognize that the numbers don't lie. This is not about
	parties or emotions, it is about numbers. And so we need to
	look at the numbers, who is getting the finance help. And why
	is it that the underserved, you know, communities don't have
	that access to financing. And in this case the PPP--the PPP
	just highlighted the systemic problem we have.
	And so I think that one of the challenges is that we need
	more technical assistance, we need more, you know, guidance in
	how to getting a small loan, because we are lost. Access to
	information and having these local partners working one-on-one
	with businesses that already know them, it is important.
	Ms. SALAZAR. And I thank you, because that is why I created
	a prosperity center within my congressional office. And I am
	glad that you are telling me that information is power. Because
	the more info that we put out there into the community for
	people like you--because like you said, that you had certain
	knowledge. There are many other businesses that are not as
	sophisticated or have as much information as you have.
	So thank you for that.
	I am not sure if I have to yield my time back or if I have
	a few more minutes. I don't have the----
	Chairman GOLDEN. You still have a minute to go if you would
	like to ask another question.
	Ms. SALAZAR. I could have--yeah.
	And now let me ask you this, what about the--like you were
	saying, I have to definitely recognize the local people in the
	Impact Fund, our local partners who are with the American
	Business Immigration Council, ABIC, to help you connect and to
	give you those tools and that information, that technology or
	know that information, basic knowledge in order to be able to
	navigate the system and get to the money.
	Now, the info in Spanish, even though you were
	knowledgeable in English, what else can we do for those people
	that also want to live the American dream but still do not
	understand the literature in English? What have you found out
	there? Do we need to promote more material in Spanish?
	Ms. ZAVALA. Yes. I mean I think that first we need to just
	have the information available. You know, people were just lost
	in the process. Like nobody knew what to do with the PPP. And
	so, yes, it will be very helpful to have it in Spanish as, you
	know, the majority of our businesses here locally are Spanish
	speaker businesses. So certainly that is important and that is
	I think one of the barriers for many of our businesses.
	Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you very much for that info. Thank you
	Ms. Guzman. Looking forward to meet you when I go down to
	Miami.
	Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you, Congresswoman.
	Ms. SALAZAR. I wish you a lot more success in opening up
	many more Half Moon Empanadas shops.
	Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you.
	Ms. SALAZAR. I yield back. Thank you, Chairman.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
	I am going to ask a few more questions, so second round if
	Members can bear with me. I certainly recognize if you are not
	able to stick it out, however, Mr. Hagedorn, but if you do have
	more questions, I am happy to recognize you after.
	Thank you to the witnesses. Just a few more questions.
	One of them--I guess I will just follow up with you, Ms.
	Zavala, because that was a really good exchange right there.
	You know, early on in the pandemic my office was hearing from
	many, many businesses who were very eager for help from EIDL,
	from PPP, had a lot of questions. SBA staff were very busy
	working with the Treasury trying to build the program, and as a
	result people were really struggling to get information.
	One of the things that the American Rescue Plan authorizes
	at SBA is a call center, where business owners such as yourself
	could call to get information, how do I apply, you know, what
	are the guidelines, you know. Many people were very concerned
	about taking the loan not knowing how they might qualify for
	forgiveness. These types of questions were everywhere. And as
	you said earlier, people were very concerned.
	Do you think that having a call center that you could have
	called at the beginning when you were contemplating the
	Paycheck Protection Program and things like EIDL, would have
	been helpful? And would you have called it if it had existed?
	Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
	Yes. I mean I think that as the information is what was
	missing, the access is what--sometimes people were lost. Even
	before the pandemic, think about it, like where do you get
	financing. I get those questions all the time when I do
	mentorship. I get texts from companies, from people, I need
	support for this financing wise. Like there is a lack of
	information. And so, yes, a call center--there was an effort
	here in Miami led by the city Foundation where they put
	together a website with like specific questions about where to
	get the help during COVID, the loans or the individual help.
	And so, of course, those are important efforts.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
	You know, I also wanted to say just thinking about the
	early weeks and months of the pandemic and the emergency it
	caused for a lot of small businesses, I actually had almost my
	entire team establish what we called a task force completely
	focused on aiding small businesses and accessing the EIDL and
	PPP. Even my D.C. staff were on the phone lines trying to
	develop expertise to connect business owners with assistance.
	And, you know, I think it was one of the beautiful things
	that this Committee really took part in early on. Having had
	the PPP established--it wasn't perfect, we had to roll it out.
	And there was a lot of great oversight done by the entire
	Committee that resulted in follow on actions that improved the
	program over time and more, you know, accurately targeted it
	where it needed to be to have the biggest impact as time went
	on. A really important effort.
	And one thing I--you may be aware, maybe you are not--I
	actually voted against the American Rescue Plan, but as
	Chairman of the Subcommittee I certainly intend to take part in
	that kind of collaborative oversight to make sure that these
	programs are very successful for all the businesses that are
	out there. Certainly there is a lot of need that remains.
	So another question I wanted to ask for Ms. Shi, you ran
	the pilot program on the Community Navigator Program in various
	different states, could you talk a little bit about some of the
	issues you came across that SBA and this Committee should be
	aware of in order to avoid those same mistakes occurring as the
	program rolls out nationally?
	You are muted. I am sorry, ma'am. Go ahead, try again.
	Looks like we may have some technical difficulties. We will
	submit that one for the record.
	Ms. SHI. Is this better?
	Chairman GOLDEN. Yes.
	Ms. SHI. Oh, I am so sorry about that.
	Yes, so some of the issues that we identified were the
	access to lenders, were for the sole proprietors, the Schedule
	C issues of not being able to have a fuller relief through the
	calculating with the gross income. And I would just say that
	because these were the boots on ground, it sounds similar,
	Chairman, with your office. Almost seems like you had your
	whole team as navigators. But really holding these small
	businesses' hands to get these loans and then helping to turn
	the loans into the grants were some of the issues and that we
	reflected back to the Committee, to the Chairwoman Velazquez--
	and thank you for her leadership on this--and to try to get the
	program major improvements over time as we have seen.
	And just the other issue I think a couple of times that has
	come up about the accountability and the anti fraud measures.
	The other thing that we did in our program is to make sure the
	navigators and organizations that weren't producing, that were
	not helping businesses get the money in the bank, were defunded
	from the program, right. So that this is--we are in a pandemic,
	we are in an emergency, we require high performance and that
	these businesses like Pilar's, and even smaller employers, do
	get the funds that they deserve and do it quickly, so.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. My time has expired on the
	second round. So I did want to make sure to offer an
	opportunity for further questions to the Ranking Member.
	Mr. HAGEDORN. I have no more questions at this time. I
	would be happy to yield to our Ranking Member for any further
	question.
	But thank you.
	Chairman GOLDEN. Very good.
	Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses for joining us
	today and all of the feedback that you provided. And certainly
	appreciate you bearing with us through all the technical
	difficulties that exist out there. Some people have commented
	on the side here more evidence of the need for this Committee
	to stay focused on access to high speed internet, particularly
	for small business owners all over America. And I think I heard
	the Ranking Member comment he looks forward to having everyone
	back in the Committee. I couldn't agree more.
	But, with that, just some closing remarks.
	You know, to the witnesses, your testimony today will be
	valuable as the Administration and this Committee moves forward
	to stand up and fine tune the Community Navigator Program. For
	a nearly a year COVID has hit underserved, agricultural, and
	rural small businesses particularly hard. Congress has taken
	many steps to make relief programs such as the Paycheck
	Protection Program, EIDL, and others there for small businesses
	more accessible, equitable, and to ensure that our small
	businesses get the greatest, you know, help out of this
	Congress and these programs as possible. But certainly there is
	always room to continue to make improvements.
	Today we have heard about the impact that this program
	could have in underserved small businesses. That is why
	Committee Members need to do everything we can to ensure that
	the program is sped up and run effectively and efficiently
	without waste on getting the help into the hands of those who
	need it the most.
	So, with that, I look forward to continuing to work with my
	fellow Committee Members and the Committee staff as we take a
	look at the roll out of this program and continue to support
	things like the Paycheck Protection Program, as we just
	extended the ability of small businesses to access that program
	through the remainder of the month of March.
	With that, I think I will go ahead and close it out and ask
	unanimous consent that Members have 5 legislative days to
	submit statements and supporting materials for the record. And,
	without objection, so ordered.
	[Whereupon, at 11:34 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
	[Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala did not submit her QFR's in a
	timely manner.]
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