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| [House Hearing, 118 Congress] | |
| [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] | |
| FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING: THE STORY OF THE AMERICAN DREAM | |
| ======================================================================= | |
| HEARING | |
| before the | |
| COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS | |
| UNITED STATES | |
| HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES | |
| ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS | |
| FIRST SESSION | |
| __________ | |
| HEARING HELD | |
| FEBRUARY 28, 2023 | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Small Business Committee Document Number 118-002 | |
| Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov | |
| ______ | |
| U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE | |
| 51-185 WASHINGTON : 2023 | |
| HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS | |
| ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman | |
| BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri | |
| PETE STAUBER, Minnesota | |
| DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania | |
| BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas | |
| MARIA SALAZAR, Florida | |
| TRACEY MANN, Kansas | |
| JACK ELLZEY, Texas | |
| MARC MOLINARO, New York | |
| MARK ALFORD, Missouri | |
| ELI CRANE, Arizona | |
| AARON BEAN, Florida | |
| WESLEY HUNT, Texas | |
| NICK LALOTA, New York | |
| NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member | |
| JARED GOLDEN, Maine | |
| KWEISI MFUME, Maryland | |
| DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota | |
| GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio | |
| MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky | |
| MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington | |
| HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan | |
| SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan | |
| JUDY CHU, California | |
| SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas | |
| CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire | |
| Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director | |
| Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director | |
| C O N T E N T S | |
| OPENING STATEMENTS | |
| Page | |
| Hon. Roger Williams.............................................. 1 | |
| Hon. Nydia Velazquez............................................. 2 | |
| WITNESSES | |
| Ms. Zan Prince, Chairman of the Board, First Bank Texas.......... 5 | |
| Mr. Drew Davis, Founder and Owner, Crippling Hot Sauce........... 7 | |
| Mr. Roy Heim, President, Heim Construction Company............... 8 | |
| Ms. Corrine Hendrickson, Owner, Corrine's Little Explorers....... 10 | |
| APPENDIX | |
| Prepared Statements: | |
| Ms. Zan Prince, Chairman of the Board, First Bank Texas...... 35 | |
| Mr. Drew Davis, Founder and Owner, Crippling Hot Sauce....... 38 | |
| Mr. Roy Heim, President, Heim Construction Company........... 39 | |
| Ms. Corrine Hendrickson, Owner, Corrine's Little Explorers... 43 | |
| Questions for the Record: | |
| None. | |
| Answers for the Record: | |
| None. | |
| Additional Material for the Record: | |
| None. | |
| FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING: THE STORY OF THE AMERICAN DREAM | |
| ---------- | |
| TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2023 | |
| House of Representatives, | |
| Committee on Small Business, | |
| Washington, DC. | |
| The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room | |
| 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams | |
| [chairman of the Committee] presiding. | |
| Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber, | |
| Meuser, Van Duyne, Mann, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Bean, Hunt, | |
| LaLota, Velazquez, Mfume, Phillips, Landsman, McGarvey, | |
| Gluesenkamp Perez, Scholten, and Davids. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Opening prayer and pledge. Please bow | |
| your head. Heavenly Father, God of all people, help us, give us | |
| the strength today and energy to make a difference, not only | |
| for our districts, but for this great country. In your name, we | |
| pray, amen. | |
| Would you please join me in the pledge? | |
| Okay. All right. I now call the first hearing of the | |
| Committee on Small Business for the 118th Congress to order. | |
| Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a | |
| recess of the Committee at any time. | |
| I now recognize myself for my opening statement. | |
| I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and | |
| understand that all of you have traveled a long way to share | |
| your stories. We are extremely grateful that you chose to give | |
| us your most precious resource, which is your time, to share | |
| your firsthand experiences to inspire others to pursue the | |
| American Dream. | |
| As I have said before, this Committee seeks to be a voice | |
| for main street America in Washington. And the goal today is to | |
| learn more about the current state of small businesses from the | |
| people who know it best: our country's entrepreneurs. And as | |
| job creators, you are the driving force of our nation's | |
| economy, accounting for more than half the payroll of this | |
| entire country. More importantly, you have the backbone of your | |
| local communities, though many of your struggles often go | |
| unnoticed. | |
| I've been carrying on my family business for over 50 years | |
| and I understand the highs and the lows of being your own boss. | |
| America's entrepreneurs have confronted numerous historic | |
| challenges over the past few years. The COVID-19 pandemic, out- | |
| of-control inflation, broken supply chains, high interest | |
| rates, and a national labor shortage. But as the small | |
| businesses have done countless times before, they endure. | |
| Here on this Committee, we will work to create an | |
| environment where businesses can thrive. Small business owners | |
| dedicate their lives and finances to the products and services | |
| they bring to the marketplace. An extra hour of paperwork is | |
| one less hour they can tend to their business. Every inflated | |
| tax is an extra dollar that could have been reinvested back | |
| into the business and their community. Every job vacancy is one | |
| more role a small business owner must cover themselves. | |
| As we listen to these firsthand accounts, we salute the | |
| small businesses who continue to fight and give selflessly back | |
| to their communities. We are eager to enact policy solutions | |
| that will help have a path toward success for both now and | |
| success in the future. | |
| I wanted to have this hearing on the American dream first | |
| so we can celebrate the risk takers here today and across the | |
| country who have worked countless days and nights to make their | |
| dream a reality. I am excited to have all of you here today | |
| with us, and I am very much looking forward to today's hearing. | |
| With that, I want to yield to our distinguished Ranking | |
| Member from New York, Ms. Velazquez. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to | |
| welcome all of the witnesses for being able to be here and | |
| share your experiences. | |
| I would also like to welcome all of our new Small Business | |
| Committee Members and welcome back those returning from the | |
| 117th Congress. The story of the American dream has been the | |
| story of our nation's independent business owners, those who | |
| take the reins of their own destiny, and bring ideas to life in | |
| the marketplace. From the corner store to the tech start-up, | |
| these risk takers embody the ingenuity and determination to | |
| achieve the highest of American ideals. Not only do they serve | |
| as essential economic anchors, providing the foundations of our | |
| communities, they serve as the bedrock of our sprawling | |
| democracy. They help distribute wealth and power, promote | |
| competition, and provide opportunities for individuals to | |
| achieve financial independence. | |
| Over the past 3 years, the COVID-19 pandemic defined the | |
| small business economy and presented numerous hurdles for our | |
| nation's entrepreneurs. Congress recognized these firms as a | |
| top priority and knew that there would be no recovery without a | |
| robust small business economy. In the early days of the | |
| pandemic, we created the Paycheck Protection Program and the | |
| COVID EIDL program, providing small firms with the support | |
| needed to maintain operations and protect jobs. A year later, | |
| we passed the American Rescue Plan, which expanded upon these | |
| programs and created new ones, like the Restaurant | |
| Revitalization Fund. These policies help ensure that main | |
| street will lead the way in our economic recovery. | |
| Now, nearly 4 years after the pandemic struck, we are | |
| seeing the fruits of this historic investment. GDP has returned | |
| to its pre-pandemic trend, up 6.7 percent over the past 2 | |
| years. Unemployment is now the lowest it has been since 1969, | |
| with over 12 million jobs created under the Biden-Harris | |
| Administration and over 500,000 created this January alone. | |
| Small business has been driving the robust labor market scene | |
| over this past year. According to the Wall Street Journal, | |
| while large businesses lost nearly 800,000 net jobs since April | |
| 2020, small businesses created a net 3.5 million. Most | |
| importantly, more and more Americans are turning to | |
| entrepreneurship. After 40 years of decline, small business | |
| applications shot up, with over 10 million submitted over the | |
| past 2 years. This trend is encouraging, and it signals the | |
| determination and resilience of the American people in the face | |
| of crisis. | |
| This goes to show, when you prioritize building the economy | |
| from the bottom up and the middle out, American entrepreneurs | |
| respond with results. | |
| However, the road to recovery has had its share of bumps, | |
| to say the least. It is no secret that, despite encouraging | |
| trends in recent months, the costs of running a business remain | |
| high. The pandemic, alongside geopolitical conflicts, induced | |
| enormous global economic challenges that have affected | |
| businesses, large and small. Supply chain disruptions and | |
| ongoing labor shortages have created headaches for business | |
| owners across the country. | |
| Additionally, surging energy prices due to the conflict in | |
| Ukraine and the price-gouging by some of our nation's most | |
| profitable businesses, helped push inflation to a 40-year high. | |
| Early retirement during the pandemic and lack of immigration | |
| over the past four years has also decreased the pool of skilled | |
| workers from which small businesses can hire. Democrats tackled | |
| this problem head on by lowering energy costs through the | |
| Inflation Reduction Act and bolstering supply chains with | |
| legislation like the CHIPS and Science Act. Additionally, the | |
| Bipartisan Infrastructure Law made massive strides toward | |
| making government contracting by small minority-owned firms | |
| more attainable. | |
| We have made great progress over the past 2 years, but our | |
| job is far from over. I look forward to working with our | |
| Members on both sides of the aisle to address the challenges | |
| small firms face and ensure they remain the top priority of our | |
| economy. | |
| With that, Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this | |
| important hearing. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. Now, I will introduce our | |
| witnesses. | |
| It is my honor today to introduce Zan Prince to today's | |
| hearing. Ms. Prince has had a long and distinguished career in | |
| the Texas banking industry. Since 1990, Ms. Prince has worked | |
| at First Bank Texas, a locally owned business that traces its | |
| founding all the way back to 1880. For 33 years, Ms. Prince has | |
| served the community in which she also calls home, eventually | |
| ascending to her current role as Chairman of the Board in 2015. | |
| In addition to her work at First Bank Texas, Ms. Prince has | |
| been an integral part and active Member of her local community | |
| through her involvement in numerous nonprofits, chambers of | |
| commerce, and the Parker County Health Foundation. Her | |
| extensive career and knowledge in local banking make Ms. Prince | |
| a tremendously well-informed expert today about the issues | |
| facing small businesses and main street communities today. | |
| So, Ms. Prince, thank you for being here today and joining | |
| the Committee, and I am looking forward to today's | |
| conversation. | |
| I now recognize my colleague, Congressman Luetkemeyer, for | |
| 1 minute to briefly introduce his constituent, who is appearing | |
| before us today. Congressman. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Our next witness is Drew Davis, a native of Hillsboro in | |
| Missouri's Third District, Drew is here today as the owner of | |
| Crippling Hot Sauce. | |
| Drew is a unique witness for a couple of reasons, first | |
| being that, as a small business owner, he is still actually in | |
| high school. He is only 17 years old. Drew also has cerebral | |
| palsy, a disability that inspired his brand's name and poses | |
| various challenges for his day-to-day life. But Drew has never | |
| let his circumstances keep him from pursuing his dreams. He set | |
| his mind to starting a business, and Crippling Hot Sauce was | |
| born with a sense of humor. | |
| Crippling Hot Sauce is made from all local products, from | |
| the vegetables to the labels, and Drew's business has continued | |
| to grow, selling thousands of bottles from his website and | |
| retailers across our State. Not only is Crippling Hot Sauce a | |
| local Missouri-made business, but it is also a small business | |
| with a cause. Five percent of the proceeds from every bottle | |
| goes to cerebral palsy research. | |
| I am very proud of this young and determined entrepreneur | |
| that calls the Third District his home and even prouder to | |
| introduce him to this Committee. | |
| Thank you for making the trip, Drew, and thank his parents | |
| for being here as well today and their support for their fine | |
| son's entrepreneurial activity. | |
| I also want to thank the rest of the witnesses for being | |
| here as well. | |
| And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Luetkemeyer. | |
| I now recognize my colleague, Congressman Meuser, for 1 | |
| minute to briefly introduce his constituent, who is appearing | |
| before us today. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| r next witness is Mr. Roy Heim. Mr. Heim is the founder and | |
| owner of Heim Construction Company, headquartered in | |
| Orwigsburg, Pennsylvania, in the heart of my Congressional | |
| District. | |
| In 1990, Mr. Heim founded his initial business, Roy A. Heim | |
| Construction, hiring just three employees, who still work with | |
| Heim Construction today. After marrying his wife, Deborah, they | |
| founded Heim Construction in 1994. Today, Heim Construction is | |
| a full-service general contracting, design, build, and | |
| construction management firm that builds commercial, | |
| industrial, institutional, and residential facilities. Thanks | |
| to their hard work, Heim Construction has gone from hiring just | |
| a few employees to now serving as the livelihood of 65 | |
| dedicated and hardworking Pennsylvanians. Heim helps build | |
| everything from dams and streetscapes to hospitals, surgery | |
| centers, and dormitory for Penn State, and I have seen some of | |
| the work. Heim Construction is also involved in road and | |
| infrastructure projects throughout Pennsylvania. You could say | |
| Mr. Heim's business has literally become a pillar of the | |
| community. | |
| Roy embodies the spirit of the American entrepreneur and | |
| has spent over 30 years building his successful business in | |
| spite of the many challenges small business feels along the | |
| way. | |
| With his diverse set of projects and decades of experience, | |
| Mr. Heim notes firsthand how today's economic headwinds are | |
| impacting small businesses like his across America and will | |
| provide valuable insight into the current state of main street | |
| America. | |
| I want to thank Mr. Heim very much for making the trip here | |
| and to all of our witnesses for testifying before this | |
| Committee, and I look forward to today's conversation. | |
| Appreciate it. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. I yield back. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. I will now recognize the | |
| Ranking Member, Ms. Velazquez, for 1 minute to introduce the | |
| last witness. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Our final witness today is Ms. Corrine Hendrickson. Ms. | |
| Hendrickson has owned and operated Corrine's Little Explorers | |
| Family Child Care Center in New Glarus, Wisconsin, since 2007 | |
| and has been a registered, certified mentor, trainer, and | |
| consultant for early childhood educators and business owners | |
| since 2018. She has served on the Wisconsin Early Childhood | |
| Education Board from 2015 through 2021, including serving as | |
| the Board's president in 2020. Additionally, she won the Terri | |
| Lynne National Childcare Teacher Award in 2020 and the | |
| Wisconsin Family Child Care Provider of the Year award in 2017. | |
| She currently serves on the Main Street Alliance leadership | |
| team and as secretary for the Green County Childcare Network | |
| since 2012. She holds a degree in Elementary Education and is | |
| currently pursuing a master in Infant and Early Childhood | |
| Mental Health through UW Madison. | |
| Thank you, Ms. Hendrickson, for joining us, and we look | |
| forward to hearing your testimony. | |
| Welcome. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ranking Member Velazquez. | |
| And we appreciate all of you being here today, all of you | |
| are winners, and thanks for taking time to be here with all of | |
| us today. | |
| So, before recognizing each witness for their testimony, I | |
| would like to remind them that the oral testimony is restricted | |
| to 5 minutes. If you see the light in front of you turn red, | |
| that is a danger sign in front of you. It means your 5 minutes | |
| have concluded, and you should wrap up your testimony. There | |
| are no such restrictions on your written testimony, all of | |
| which will be submitted for the record. | |
| I would now like to recognize Ms. Prince for her 5 minute | |
| opening remarks. | |
| Ms. Prince. | |
| STATEMENTS OF ZAN PRINCE, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, FIRST BANK | |
| TEXAS; DREW DAVIS, FOUNDER AND OWNER, CRIPPLING HOT SAUCE; ROY | |
| HEIM, PRESIDENT, HEIM CONSTRUCTION COMPANY; CORRINE | |
| HENDRICKSON, OWNER, CORRINE'S LITTLE EXPLORERS | |
| STATEMENT OF ZAN PRINCE | |
| Ms. PRINCE. Good morning, Chairman Williams, Ranking Member | |
| Velazquez, and other Members of the Committee, thank you so | |
| much for the opportunity to share our story with you today. | |
| First Bank Texas is a family-owned community bank, the | |
| fulfillment of the American dream of Joe Sharp, a man with a | |
| strong foundation of hard work and an entrepreneurial spirit | |
| from West Texas dry land cotton farmer roots. He was a product | |
| of strong faith, family values, and a public education. | |
| First Bank Texas mission statement is to achieve high | |
| performance through our employees to partner with bank | |
| customers and our community to make this a better place for our | |
| families and businesses while demonstrating a kingdom purpose. | |
| For us, that means we take God-given talents coupled with | |
| American opportunities to make a difference. | |
| Joe Sharp led our family and a group of investors to Baird, | |
| Texas, in 1982 to acquire a very small community bank. That | |
| bank has grown to a billion in assets, with 14 locations. Our | |
| bank is a small business that has grown and prospered despite | |
| ever-increasing regulation and requirements to be fair. | |
| In 1982, bank documents were simple. Over time, we have | |
| added layers of consumer protection that do little to protect | |
| consumers. Fiscal and regulatory policy are important. The 2017 | |
| tax cuts, really all tax cuts, benefit both the bank and | |
| customers. | |
| But there are still threats on the horizon. The proposed | |
| CFPB Rule 1071 to collect small business loan data to ensure | |
| fair access to credit by all small business owners | |
| misrepresents the lending market. There are no two small | |
| businesses that are alike. If enacted, the process for lending | |
| to small businesses will be bogged down in technicalities that | |
| ignore creative entrepreneurial plans to establish or grow a | |
| business. | |
| Our organization is grounded in providing access to | |
| products and services without regard to gender or ethnicity. | |
| Please remember that every bank crisis has had adequate laws to | |
| hold those accountable, yet every crisis brings more laws and | |
| rules. | |
| The 2008 response to the financial crisis is a textbook | |
| example. It should have focused on the cause, big banks, but | |
| instead imposed costly regulations on community banks. | |
| We have been blessed to be able to serve our communities in | |
| ways that would have never been considered in 1982. We have an | |
| amazing family of employees that are not only committed to our | |
| customers and communities, but committed to individual growth | |
| through bank-sponsored education and training. Our bank has | |
| weathered all kinds of financial conditions since 1880, and | |
| through those trials, we worked with people to survive the | |
| challenge. Some businesses talk about high touch--we live it. | |
| Community banks provided 42 percent of the PPP loans that | |
| gave direct stimulus to main street, and the bank was honored | |
| to participate in that. | |
| Community banks serve the financial needs of small | |
| businesses who employ almost half of the American workers. | |
| Small businesses and community banks are the backbone of the | |
| community. They need reasonable regulations, fair tax code, and | |
| access to credit to provide products and services to their | |
| customers. We have all experienced ups and downs in the | |
| economy. Today, many businesses struggle with the lack of | |
| labor, increasing expenses, and supply chain issues. | |
| I would like to introduce you to a couple of small | |
| businesses in our community. The first is run by Sherry | |
| Watters. She does hand-painted items on all sorts of things and | |
| sends those not only to customers in Weatherford, but all over | |
| the country. The second business was run by Debra Smith, who | |
| recently retired after building and servicing pools in our area | |
| for decades. She employed as many as 110 people, creating | |
| opportunities for both the company and her employees. Both | |
| ladies have built their businesses on hard work and | |
| entrepreneurial spirit, integrity, and excellence that makes | |
| our community great. | |
| Community banks provide 77 percent of all agricultural | |
| loans and over 50 percent of small business loans. We provide | |
| community partnerships that help schools, charities, and all | |
| the businesses that make our communities thrive. Without | |
| community banks and small businesses, who fills the gap? Who | |
| makes a difference in our community? Who provides that which is | |
| unique to who we are today? I encourage you to focus on an | |
| environment that creates opportunities for these small | |
| businesses and community banks. | |
| The United States is the best place in the world to live | |
| and work. I, like you, are dedicated to preserving that which | |
| makes America great. | |
| Thank you for your service to our country and your time | |
| today. I look forward to your questions. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ms. Prince. | |
| Next, I would like to recognize Mr. Davis for his 5 minute | |
| opening remarks. | |
| STATEMENT OF DREW DAVIS | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Thanks for having me today. | |
| My name is Drew Davis. I own Crippling Hot Sauce. What | |
| originally started as a school project quickly became more than | |
| that. Crippling Hot Sauce was presented as a business project | |
| in my business class in my junior year. I only got an 82 | |
| percent. So, like any straight A student would do, I went up | |
| and asked the teacher at the time, why? That is why, when he | |
| said, I thought it was a great idea, just a little unrealistic. | |
| So, instead of getting mad that day, I went home. After 1,200 | |
| hours and $3,000 in my own money saved up between Christmas and | |
| other occasions, I launched Crippling Hot Sauce. | |
| I started Crippling Hot Sauce with a mission to help break | |
| the stigma between people with disabilities and the able-bodied | |
| community, and show people that we could do whatever we put our | |
| mind to, same with all of you guys. So, after all of that, we | |
| launched and fast-forward to today, 7 months later, we have | |
| sold more than 16,000 bottles and now more than 96 retail | |
| locations across Missouri. | |
| That being said, many small businesses face challenges. | |
| Because of my age and my situation, I have been forced to adapt | |
| with many challenges, one of those being banks. Because of my | |
| age, even though I had an LLC, it was most difficult to set up | |
| a business account and what you need. I had to call every small | |
| bank in my area just to find one that would set me up a | |
| business account, even with a writer. | |
| Another challenge was manufacturing. Because I only had | |
| $3,000 to my name, finding one with a low enough order quantity | |
| was difficult. I had to call about 15. | |
| The third challenge was just networking, but I have been | |
| fortunate enough to been introduced with a bunch of groups, | |
| such as the Missouri Grocers Association and more. | |
| The fourth challenge, of course, was inflation. Inflation | |
| has affected the grocer industry significantly. For example, it | |
| has forced my bottles up more than 25 percent since I started. | |
| I have been fortunate enough to grow more, so I have just | |
| offset that cost with higher order amounts. But for many small | |
| business owners that are not as fortunate. | |
| That being said, this opportunity has been really great for | |
| me because learning and bringing myself out of this bubble. And | |
| thanks for Google, thank you, because I wouldn't ever been here | |
| without Google and being able to research what I did in such a | |
| short amount of time. | |
| And thanks for this opportunity, guys. I really appreciate | |
| it. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. | |
| Mr. DAVIS. They call me Sauce Boss. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. We appreciate it. Thank you. | |
| I now recognize Mr. Heim for his 5 minute opening remarks. | |
| STATEMENT OF ROY HEIM | |
| Mr. HEIM. Good morning, Chairman Williams, Ranking Member | |
| Velazquez, and Members of the U.S. House Committee on Small | |
| Business. | |
| First of all, this is not my testimony, but I would like to | |
| say congratulations, and great job. I was not a straight A | |
| student, by the way, so you did good. You are better off than | |
| me. | |
| So, thank you for the invitation to testify this morning to | |
| discuss the opportunities--or, excuse me--thank you for the | |
| invitation to testify this morning and for the opportunity to | |
| discuss the American entrepreneurship and how I started and | |
| grew my business. I would also like to thank all of you on the | |
| Committee, all of you Committee Members, for the hard work you | |
| do on behalf of the small business owners like myself. | |
| My name is Roy Heim. I am the president of Heim | |
| Construction Company, headquartered in Orwigsburg, | |
| Pennsylvania, a small rural town in Eastern PA. Also born and | |
| raised there, I am an elected School Board Member and an | |
| appointed Vo-Tech Board Member for the Blue Mountain High | |
| School District in Schuylkill County, PA. I am also a Board | |
| Member of several associations, including the Associated | |
| Builders and Contractors, the Association of General | |
| Contractors, and the Associated Pennsylvania Contractors, which | |
| is heavy highway contractors. | |
| I attended K through twelve and graduated Blue Mountain | |
| High School. During high school, I was also a carpentry student | |
| for four years at the Schuylkill Technology Center, a Vo-Tech | |
| School that I am still involved with through the School Board. | |
| I spent most of my senior year in high school in a co-op | |
| program, where I have gained knowledge on many aspects of my | |
| job in the construction industry. | |
| After high school, I took a job working on infrastructure | |
| projects in Pennsylvania. A few years before, I was given the | |
| opportunity to move to Homer, Alaska, to work on the Bradley | |
| Lake Hydraulic Project. The Project, which is still an active | |
| energy producer, involved in boring a 3.5-mile tunnel with a | |
| diameter of 24 feet and constructing a brand new 610-foot long, | |
| 125-foot high, concrete-faced and rock-filled gravity dam, all | |
| at the bottom of a glacier. I spent approximately 2 years on | |
| the project, gaining invaluable experience. | |
| Upon returning home, I worked for a concrete contractor for | |
| approximately 6 months before leaving to start up my own | |
| business as a small general contractor in 1991. | |
| Heim Construction started with two to three employees and | |
| has been growing ever since. Today, Heim Construction is a | |
| construction management, design builds, construction general | |
| contractor, concrete service company that does millions of | |
| dollars of public and private work, including many state, | |
| federal, and federally assisted, funded projects. We have been | |
| in business for 30 years and currently employ approximately 95 | |
| wonderful men and women. | |
| Over many years that we have been in business, the number | |
| of federal and state regulatory requirements surrounding the | |
| construction industry has also grown significantly. We spend an | |
| enormous amount of time and money to stay compliant, employing | |
| 15 full-time employees in our office who work countless hours | |
| to ensure we remain in compliance with the forever-changing | |
| regulations. Many of these laws and regulations, while well- | |
| intended, make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for | |
| small businesses to comply, complete, and survive, let alone | |
| profit. | |
| Another issue threatening a small business like mine is | |
| tying of state and federal construction funding to special | |
| interests. Today, the merit shop contractors, which would be | |
| non-union labor forces employ more than 88 percent of all | |
| professionalisms in the construction industry. For example, | |
| when the federal government issues Executive Orders or passes | |
| regulations mandating or prioritizing PLAs, which are project | |
| labor agreements, it can tie the federal funds to use of union- | |
| only labor and discriminates against nearly 88 percent of the | |
| contractors whose workers have made a decision not to join a | |
| union. This eliminates a fair and open competition among | |
| contractors, harmful to the construction industry, its workers, | |
| and ultimately taxpayers who pay more because of the limited | |
| resources and competition. That 88 percent is the heart of | |
| small business community in the construction industry that you | |
| are here to protect and help and thrive. | |
| I have a relationship with the unions. I hire them, they | |
| hire me. We do jobs across the state together. There is no | |
| reason to mandate union-only labor when we can compete and work | |
| together with each other. | |
| An additional issue facing a small business like mine is | |
| the Build America, Buy America Acts. While we fully support the | |
| intentions behind the Act to keep jobs and manufacturing in our | |
| country, the recent modification and amendments and legal | |
| decisions and the Executive Branch actions surrounding these | |
| Acts have left even the federal officials confused on how to | |
| get the projects completed and to ensure compliance. The law | |
| fails to consider the limitations on supply chains' ability to | |
| supply all the components needed to construct federal | |
| construction projects. All of us have felt how fragile the | |
| supply chain can be through COVID. The contractor's ability to | |
| fully comply with these Acts will require transitioning from | |
| global supply chain to a U.S.-based one that is not fully | |
| capable of handling the demand. Congress and the Biden | |
| Administration need to act immediately to add flexibility to | |
| the form of exemptions. | |
| And I know I am running out of time, Chairman, but I will | |
| skip over. | |
| So, while these are just some of the implications of each | |
| regulatory obstacle, I have attached a non-exhaustive list of | |
| federal and state regulatory requirements that impact | |
| construction industry jobs created. | |
| So, I want to thank you again for the opportunity to serve | |
| as a witness, and I look forward to answering any of your | |
| questions you may have. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. | |
| Now, I recognize Ms. Hendrickson for 5 minutes. | |
| STATEMENT OF CORRINE HENDRICKSON | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. My name is Corrine Hendrickson, and I have | |
| owned and operated Corrine's Little Explorers Family Child Care | |
| in rural New Glarus, Wisconsin, for about 15 years. I have been | |
| a Member of Main Street Alliance for 2. Thank you for inviting | |
| me to speak to you today about my small business and not only | |
| my American Dream, but the ability of those I work with to | |
| achieve theirs. | |
| The only reason I can be here today is because I was able | |
| to hire a couple of substitutes last year utilizing federal | |
| rescue fund dollars, thereby increasing the wage I could offer | |
| by $3 an hour and a monthly bonus of $250. This allows me to go | |
| to appointments, take classes, and appear before you today | |
| without closing my business, subsequently allowing parents to | |
| work. However, my one substitute finished her Master's in | |
| Social work, and my second one has been offered a full time | |
| manufacturing job that pays substantially more than I can, with | |
| benefits. So she gave her notice. I cannot compete. | |
| I began my American dream wanting to become a teacher. | |
| After I graduated with a teaching license into a 2001 recession | |
| job market, I substitute taught and worked in retail so my | |
| fiance and I could buy a home. It was possible then because we | |
| had one very minimal student loan to pay off with 3 percent | |
| interest that went down if you paid on time, and homes were far | |
| more affordable compared to starting career wages. Compare that | |
| to today, when large corporations and investors have driven | |
| prices up exponentially, increasing our home value this year by | |
| about 15 percent or $50,000. | |
| In summer 2007, when our son was 6 months old, some friends | |
| and I were together for our usual Monday evening dinner while | |
| our volunteer firefighter husbands were at meetings. And the | |
| three of them were very pregnant and unable to find care only | |
| wait lists. I was now the head store manager and offered to | |
| quit and start a family childcare business. | |
| Because of the parents' lack of access to paid family | |
| medical leave, I opened my business only 6 weeks after the | |
| first two were born and 2 days after leaving my retail job. Had | |
| we been renting, my dream most likely would have ended before | |
| it started. Due to liability reasons, most landlords don't | |
| allow family childcare in their rental. Liability insurance is | |
| expensive and becoming more difficult for licensed group and | |
| family childcare businesses. Over the last 2 years, prices have | |
| risen drastically or non-renewal notices are being sent instead | |
| of bills. | |
| Furthermore, childcare as a business plan has a notoriously | |
| low profit margin, so purchasing a home would have been | |
| impossible without any access to capital. On average, parents | |
| pay more than college tuition for one infant or toddler | |
| enrolled in care. Moreover, for 2 or more children, it is more | |
| than their mortgage or rent because fixed costs for food, | |
| liability insurance, rent, utilities, toys and books that need | |
| to be replaced, continuing education, licensing costs, et | |
| cetera, are extremely high for childcare businesses. This | |
| leaves little left for profit or wages. Many of those fixed | |
| costs are increasing due to the lack of enforcement of our | |
| price gouging and anti-monopoly laws enabling corporate | |
| concentration by pushing out competition, lowering quality, | |
| while raising the prices. | |
| Early care and education businesses are the corner for all | |
| other small businesses as key to workforce development and the | |
| economy both today and in the future by caring for and | |
| educating young children while parents work, continue their | |
| education, and pursue their American dreams. | |
| Secondly, my business product is children. We create | |
| tomorrow's workforce and future business owners. The first 5 | |
| years of a child's life are when 90 percent of brain | |
| development happens, laying the foundational skills of self | |
| esteem, self awareness, self control, critical thinking, | |
| creativity, collaboration and curiosity by curating, play based | |
| environments that are child centered and teacher supported--all | |
| skills that my fellow small business owners state they need in | |
| our workforce and are lacking. This is detrimental to the | |
| future ingenuity and competitiveness necessary to pursue the | |
| American dream. | |
| By investing in childcare, our rural economy's decline can | |
| be reversed drastically and replace the 90,000 family childcare | |
| businesses lost between 2010 and 2019. Since COVID, investments | |
| to all small businesses and to parents in the form of increased | |
| tax credits and deductions increase the affordability of having | |
| children. Without the PPP, I probably wouldn't still be in | |
| business. Increased investment in childcare due to COVID has | |
| increased wages and viability for childcare businesses. | |
| Significantly raising wages without also raising tuition has | |
| been possible. | |
| Empty classrooms are reopening since our employees are | |
| staying and coming into the field. However, once the federal | |
| ARPA funding runs out, if the state and federal government | |
| refuses to continue investing, I will be raising my rates 25 | |
| percent a week per child. This means parents will have to | |
| either receive significant pay raises from their employers, | |
| remove their child from regulated care, or be unable to find | |
| work. If tuition gets too high, more childcare businesses will | |
| close due to lack of enrollment. Additionally, we are still | |
| down about 80,000 employees, leaving exponentially more parents | |
| unable to work since their child is on wait list instead of in | |
| care. | |
| Nationally, the lack of infant and toddler childcare costs | |
| our economy at least 122,000,000,000 annually. | |
| In conclusion, from the perspective of small businesses, | |
| our government is choosing to focus on big business and | |
| corporations ignoring the dire needs of small businesses around | |
| the country, eliminating the opportunity to truly live up to | |
| the American dream. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. | |
| And I would just like to tell our witnesses, you see people | |
| moving forward and backwards. There is a lot of voting going | |
| on, different committees, so you are going to see people coming | |
| and going. | |
| So let me start out by saying the banking industry is | |
| critical to the health of main street America. Whether it is | |
| getting a loan, starting capital, developing a revolving line | |
| of credit to keep up with expenses, everyone needs a good | |
| relationship with a banker. We saw firsthand how important it | |
| was at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, where businesses | |
| with existing relationships had a much easier time getting | |
| their PPP loans than their counterparts that had not made that | |
| connection. | |
| And as we have heard today, inflation is impacting many | |
| businesses across our country. This has caused the Federal | |
| Reserve to raise interest rates at a pace we haven't seen since | |
| the 1980s. | |
| So my question, Ms. Prince, as a community banker, can you | |
| talk about what you are seeing on the ground as it relates to | |
| the increasing interest rates and the effect they are having on | |
| the businesses you serve? | |
| Ms. PRINCE. Absolutely. Thanks for asking. | |
| Many businesses today that were very profitable, very | |
| viable in the lower interest rate environment are finding | |
| themselves with an interest expense that is probably | |
| unsustainable. And with the focus on additional increases, that | |
| puts people that were on the bubble not really able to get a | |
| loan and to service that loan. So interest rates have had a | |
| huge negative process in our community. | |
| We do lots of construction loans, we do lots of real estate | |
| loans, and those have slowed down substantially with the | |
| increase in cost. Most of those people that are buying a first | |
| mortgage today don't remember the 80s, but an 8 percent, a 7 | |
| percent, a 6 percent mortgage is just insurmountable for them. | |
| So interest rates are huge. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Davis, your passion and drive to be successful should | |
| be an inspiration for all Americans. And too many people see an | |
| obstacle as too big and simply give up without even trying. And | |
| you were brave enough to put yourself in the game rather than | |
| just sit on the sidelines. And before your 18th birthday, you | |
| have already overcome many unique challenges that many seasoned | |
| business owners have never previously had to navigate through | |
| until the last few years. So I hope you keep working with this | |
| so one day you will have too many employees working for you at | |
| the hot sauce company to come before the Small Business | |
| Committee. | |
| Now, there is something I heard that really impressed me in | |
| listening to your story. When you are a business owner and you | |
| make a profit, you do not just sit on that money. You hire an | |
| additional worker, you invest in new equipment, you think of | |
| ways you can give back to the community. And so for some | |
| people, giving back is an afterthought once they have already | |
| built a successful business, but for others, it is ingrained | |
| into the DNA from the start. | |
| So question is, can you share with the Committee how you | |
| give back to the cerebral palsy community through your | |
| business? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Yes. Five percent of our profits go to the | |
| National Cerebral Palsy Research Foundation. And this is | |
| important because not only will this research go towards ways | |
| to make people better live with cerebral palsy, but since | |
| cerebral palsy is a brain--it is basically a fancy word for | |
| brain damage, the research could also further affect the people | |
| that also have paresthesis and like are paralyzed and not just | |
| the 764,000 people a year that struggle with cerebral palsy. | |
| Through stem cell transplants, as well as other things, I | |
| believe as we further increase profit, that could substantially | |
| help our contributions, which could further speed up the rate | |
| in which we are able to give, which will maybe eventually help | |
| more people into the workforce, which will generate even more | |
| revenue for us, which will help the wonderful economy that the | |
| United States has. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. | |
| In the brief time the time that I have. Mr. Heim, your | |
| industry has been one of the most impacted by supply chain | |
| disruptions. So can you talk briefly about how the pandemic | |
| shifted your view and where you sourced materials? And do | |
| American businesses currently have the capacity to meet your | |
| needs? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So sure. Thank you. | |
| So I could just tell you about the last project we just | |
| had. It was a 3 year project. We bid the project before the | |
| COVID and COVID came into play. We waited approximately a year | |
| and a half to 2 years just to get air conditioners. There is | |
| still today--if you want to buy an electrical panel, you are | |
| going to wait a year to just find an electrical panel. So today | |
| it is very, very difficult for us to plan to try to understand | |
| how to price. So---- | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. My time is up now. Thank you for that. | |
| With that, I yield back. | |
| And now I recognize the Ranking Member of New York for 5 | |
| minutes for questions. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Ms. Hendrickson, many small businesses like yours are | |
| facing increased costs during this period of high inflation. | |
| One potential source of this inflation is the continued | |
| concentration of market power over the past several decades. | |
| How has the concentration in certain industries affected the | |
| price you pay for basic supplies for your business? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Thank you. | |
| So for me, as a family child care provider, I am not able | |
| to buy things at scale or go through larger corporations and | |
| things like that to purchase. So I have to go to the store to | |
| get things myself or purchase online. | |
| A few years ago, Office Max and Office Depot were allowed | |
| to merge. Since then, my prices for paper, ink, et cetera, have | |
| gone up exponentially and have not come back down along with | |
| the quality. My paper frequently jams. I have gone through | |
| several printers and things like that, and it is very | |
| frustrating because when I purchase something I want it to be | |
| higher quality. And with that corporate concentration, it gets | |
| rid of competition and takes away that ability for people like | |
| that. | |
| Same thing with companies like Amazon that have taken over. | |
| You now auto reorder. I don't have a lot of time, but I have | |
| noticed those prices have actually gone up more than if I were | |
| to purchase from the original proprietors and. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Funds from the American Rescue Plan and | |
| reimbursement from the USDA gave you some much needed breathing | |
| room with respect to hiring staff and higher wages. Can you | |
| speak more about the importance of maintaining those funds in | |
| fixing our country's broken childcare model? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yes. | |
| So because childcare has such a low profit margin, we are | |
| only able to charge what parents can pay, unfortunately, which | |
| isn't a whole lot when you are looking at people at the | |
| beginning of their careers. And so we look at the average | |
| market rate really isn't comparative to what it actually costs | |
| to have a childcare business. So we actually are able to use | |
| government supports. Finally, the first time in my entire | |
| career, I have had money that I knew was coming in every single | |
| month, and I was able to take that money and pay my operational | |
| costs, raise my own wage, and also hire people, which has been | |
| a breath of fresh air for all of those families as well. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. The USDA food program has increased to one | |
| tier, and if we were to make that permanent through the USDA | |
| Farm Bill, that would help offset cost to parents about $15 a | |
| week. Group centers, unfortunately, aren't always eligible, and | |
| so getting them into that as eligible, no matter what, would | |
| also help offset those costs for those centers so they would be | |
| able to pass those savings on to families or increase the wages | |
| so they can recruit and retain highly qualified staff. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Heim, it is well known that the construction industry | |
| has been having difficulties in finding skilled workers. Has | |
| that been your experience? | |
| Mr. HEIM. Yes, very much so. So, right now, our industry | |
| nationwide is short about 460,000 people. We are all fighting | |
| for people left and right. I have got on the school board and | |
| now work with the technical school board. In our county alone, | |
| we have 197 children on a waiting list to try to get into the | |
| technical school, which only compounds our problems that we | |
| can't grow and we can't get better. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Do you think that common sense bipartisan | |
| immigration reform could increase your ability to meet the | |
| current demands for work that you are taking on? | |
| Mr. HEIM. I do. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Okay. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Davis, thank you so much for being here. It is an | |
| incredible story of resilience. | |
| Can you talk to us about how this work has helped you to | |
| gain more self confidence to hire other people and then to give | |
| back to our community and your community? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Yes. So through COVID, I really got reserved and | |
| stopped talking to people. But when I started Crippling Hot | |
| Sauce, it kind of helped me break out of my funk and go out | |
| there and talk to people. And has increased my social skills a | |
| lot. And I have also learned a lot through it, through having | |
| to talk to people and, you know, kind of screwing up on | |
| business pitches. And I just take everything as a learning | |
| experience and say I will get them next time. And if that ever | |
| happens, you know, at least I tried. But I have consistently | |
| gotten better through the last 7 months, and I am just happy to | |
| kind of be that representation in the disabled community, | |
| because not many people have that. | |
| Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much. Thank you very | |
| much. | |
| The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Luetkemeyer, is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. Davis, thank you so much for your testimony today, and | |
| you are an inspiration to all of us. You know, if I was the | |
| teacher who gave you 82 percent on your business plan, I think | |
| I would have a problem. So did you go back to the teacher and | |
| say, hey, you know, look what we are doing now, and see if he | |
| would reconsider your grade? Or was it too late? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. I mean, they didn't renew his contract for the | |
| next year. I think says something. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. I think it does too. | |
| Mr. DAVIS. I actually was told that he ended up buying it, | |
| which I thought was kind of funny. And he is like, it is really | |
| good. And I am like---- | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very good. Well, again, you are an | |
| inspiration to all of us. | |
| You know, everybody has an impetus for starting a business, | |
| and yours was to show that you had a good plan. If you just put | |
| your hard work behind it, look what can happen. And I think | |
| that all of you here this morning have got that same story. | |
| Mr. Heim, your testimony on all the different community | |
| projects and community things that you are involved in is a | |
| testament, I think, to small businesses. Our communities don't | |
| grow unless our small businesses are there and our small | |
| businesses don't grow unless our community is there. And by | |
| participating in the community, you make sure the community | |
| grows so that your business can grow. It is a symbiotic | |
| relationship there that has to be there, otherwise, neither one | |
| happens. And so you are a perfect example of that. So thank you | |
| for your community involvement. Yeah. | |
| Mr. HEIM. May I comment to that? | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Sure. | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, I didn't list all the stuff I do. I am a | |
| Little League coach and basketball coach and so on. But the one | |
| thing that we do miss is we need leadership with our youth | |
| today. And being in this business, hearing me create, being | |
| around other business leaders, help me get that leadership that | |
| then you can transfer to your community and to the children, I | |
| think that is very important. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very well said. Very well said. Mr. Davis, | |
| I would like to ask you a couple of questions about your | |
| business, your business model. You talked about inflation | |
| affecting it. I know in your written testimony you say you | |
| absorb the price of some of the--or some of the cost of some of | |
| the fluctuations. Do you continue to absorb all of it? Do you | |
| pass some of it on? How are you looking at your business model? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. So considering we are on the premium hot sauce | |
| spectrum, I have just been ordering more to further offset | |
| those costs because with hot sauce, there is a very large | |
| fluctuation on what it can cost. And our goal for the next | |
| couple of years is get as many people to try it as they can. | |
| And since many people are struggling with inflation, we just | |
| want to keep prices down as low as possible to get people to | |
| try and contribute to the cause, no matter the profit margin. I | |
| know I haven't taken anything as far as I wasn't around with | |
| the PPP or anything like that. It has all been my own money, | |
| which has helped because I don't have interest rates following | |
| me. | |
| But I think to add to that, to further help representation | |
| in the disabled community, getting more grants and tax | |
| subsidies towards underprivileged people, I think would | |
| substantially help the economy because the disabled community | |
| is a large part and not many people have access because of cost | |
| that it costs to have a disability. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Appreciate that. I think that is extremely | |
| important. One of the things you talk about in your testimony | |
| here is that permitting and licensing process that you had to | |
| go through. Everybody, all small businesses here this morning | |
| going to talk about government rules and regulations. Can you | |
| give us a little idea of the cost? Do you have an idea of what | |
| the cost is or percentage of cost that is in your pricing of | |
| your product for rules and regulations just off the top of your | |
| head? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Not exactly, but I would estimate it is between | |
| 10 percent, because a lot of that is through my manufacturer | |
| and I know a lot of those things are per county. So there is | |
| not, like, a thing that is like you get this for the State of | |
| Missouri and you are good for all counties. Each county has | |
| their own health department. And that really makes it confusing | |
| because you have to have this for this county and that for this | |
| county. And I think if we kind of fast-line the application | |
| process and the licensing process, more people would get into | |
| the grocer industry, which would make it to where there would | |
| be more competition for the big corporations. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. I am running out of time. I got one more | |
| really important question here. In Missouri, they allow you to | |
| have a personalized license plate. Does your personalized | |
| license plate read Sauce Boss? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. That is a good idea, though. | |
| Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for your testimony. | |
| Mr. BEAN. [Presiding] Thank you very much. The gentleman | |
| from Minnesota, Mr. Phillips, you are recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and greetings. I | |
| think the world of all of you. I am a business person myself. I | |
| know how tough it is to run a successful business during the | |
| best of times and how tough, tough, tough it is during the | |
| worst of times, which, of course, the past 3 years have been. | |
| And also, I love the mosaic here because it is this great | |
| ecosystem of business. Now you have a lender, a builder, a | |
| product maker, and a service provider. And I want to thank you | |
| for being part of this extraordinary ecosystem. | |
| I do a series at home called ``On the Job with Dean,'' | |
| where I visit small businesses every week I am back home, and I | |
| do a 2- or 3-hour shift. I don't get paid, which means I am | |
| being paid what I am worth. And it is probably the most fun and | |
| illuminating part of this entire service. | |
| So my question to each of you is, if you had your Member of | |
| Congress join you at your business for just a day, for an | |
| afternoon, what specifically would you like them to take back | |
| to this Committee about their experience? | |
| Ms. Prince, maybe you can start. | |
| Ms. PRINCE. Sure. Thank you. I think I would invite | |
| Chairman Williams to our loan committee so that he understood | |
| what it takes for the small business to put together a package | |
| and present it to a bank and to go through the entire process. | |
| So, it is not very simple. It used to be, it is not anymore. | |
| But I think it would be eye-opening to see the amount of | |
| information that they have to provide, that the bank has to | |
| require in order to make a sound credit decision going forward. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. I appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. Heim? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, I think I would ask Mr. Meuser to spend the | |
| afternoon and then quite a few evenings going to municipal | |
| meetings, dealing with EPA and DEP and trying to get a permit | |
| approved that could take us up to a year to get done. So, that | |
| process is something that, unless you do it, you really don't | |
| understand it. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Yeah, permitting reform. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Correct. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Yeah, thank you. Mr. Davis? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. I mean, my industry is kind of unique because I | |
| could basically take any of you guys and show you how | |
| complicated some of the paperwork and stuff has to be. And I | |
| think each of you would have the same kind of mindset going out | |
| of it that it is really hard and both on the state and federal | |
| level. Things can be done for any state because, like I said, | |
| there is 50 states and each of them have their own rules and | |
| regulations. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Yeah. Thank you. Ms. Hendrickson? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. I would invite you to start your day with | |
| me at 6:30 in the morning, cleaning and prepping for all of the | |
| children to show up, and then having those few conversations | |
| with parents about what their night was, what I can expect that | |
| day, and then enjoy spending time with the children, but then | |
| also seeing how many different things I am doing at one time, | |
| between diapering and feeding and, you know, navigating between | |
| the children that are playing really well, but then somebody | |
| wants to come in and hasn't quite learned yet how to ask to | |
| play and how important that is. Because even we notice that the | |
| adults sometimes don't know how to ask to play nicely either. | |
| And I think that would be something that would be great to take | |
| back with. | |
| And then, also, then getting them all down--like getting | |
| lunch ready, getting them fed, getting them down for naps. | |
| While they are napping, I do my paperwork and my meetings. And | |
| you could learn how to do the USDA food program and all those | |
| other things that I have to try and keep track of, enter my | |
| receipts and all the things I have to do as my own accountant | |
| because I don't have--there aren't enough accountants out there | |
| that actually understand the implications of family childcare | |
| and all of the different various tax write-offs that we have | |
| that we should be getting. And that leaves a lot of money on | |
| the table. | |
| And then the children start to wake up. And so then we do | |
| bathroom and diapering and everything, and then we go outside | |
| and play. We have done that a few times by now. And then the | |
| parents come and pick up. I let them know how their day was. | |
| The children leave. | |
| I now have to do laundry, dishes, do all kinds of other | |
| things, paperwork. My own children that are 16 and 14 deal with | |
| their things. And then sometimes I am still on meetings and | |
| classes and running meetings, mentoring until about 7, 8:00 at | |
| night, and then you could go home. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Wow. By the way, I have to say, I think my | |
| colleagues can relate to adults that don't play nicely together | |
| sometimes. | |
| With my brief time left, you know, during the pandemic we | |
| passed some legislation to help small businesses. It was | |
| imperfect. There was some fraud, of course. But just quickly, | |
| if I might just add, I know, Mr. Davis, you indicated you | |
| didn't secure a PPP loan because you started your business. Ms. | |
| Hendrickson, did you---- | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yes. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS.--see any support? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yes, I did, actually. I was able to | |
| through my small community bank. They reached out and worked | |
| with me very, very much. And I actually then helped other | |
| people who are unable to access the PPP through their larger | |
| banks because they were not prioritizing them, get that PPP | |
| through my bank. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Terrific. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. So, it was fantastic. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Nr. Heim? | |
| Mr. HEIM. Yes, we did. So, because we do medical work in | |
| the State of Pennsylvania, we were allowed to continue working, | |
| so it did keep us working. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. A PPP loan or? | |
| Mr. HEIM. A PPP, right. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Terrific. | |
| Mr. HEIM. And then what we did is there was a few crews | |
| that worked for the Department of DOT, and they could not work, | |
| so we kept them employed and we actually did community work. We | |
| did a ballfield. We went and we did a ballfield over for the | |
| local town, but we did everything we could to keep them working | |
| and make sure they were employed. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Terrific. And my time has expired, but Ms. | |
| Prince, I was going to ask you about how we could have done | |
| that better as someone who clearly---- | |
| Mr. BEAN. And, Ms. Prince, let us come back. In fact, I | |
| will pick you up with that question when it comes to my turn-- | |
| -- | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Perfect. | |
| Mr. BEAN.--so stay right there. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you all very much. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Well done. | |
| Mr. PHILLIPS. I yield back. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Mr. Phillips, thank you very much. Let us go to | |
| the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Meuser, who is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you | |
| very much to our witnesses, to my friend Roy Heim, for making | |
| the trip again, and to all of you. | |
| So, yeah, I spent most of my adult life in small business | |
| and growing into, fortunately, a larger business. And all my | |
| customer base for small businesses certainly know the trials | |
| and tribulations that many of you are expressing and all that | |
| you do give along with employing 95 percent, in my district | |
| anyway, or make up 95 percent of the businesses, employ almost | |
| 75 percent of those who are employed. In my district over | |
| 100,000 people work for small businesses. And yet small | |
| businesses tend to be under the gun from energy costs that have | |
| risen. And many small businesses work with the energy industry, | |
| which hasn't been--particularly natural gas in Northern | |
| Pennsylvania, which hasn't been--which has been kind of under | |
| fire as well, the inflation, the regulations, the interest | |
| rates, the access to capital, the supply chain issues, the | |
| workforce. So we know the issues that you have, this committee | |
| is about trying to find solutions. | |
| So, Mr. Heim, I am going to start with you, if you wouldn't | |
| mind. Well, first of all, what you brought up about all the | |
| giving that small businesses do, that is just so very | |
| important, how main street does pay for the Little Leagues and | |
| are usually the most charitable and involved in communities. So | |
| that should always be noted, that level of continued value-add | |
| or additional value-add. But in your testimony, you submitted | |
| an exhaustive list, or a nonexhaustive list, nearly 50 pages | |
| long with details of regulations that your construction | |
| business contends with. | |
| Now, how long was that list 30 years ago when you began | |
| your business? Was it the same? Was it a lot shorter? | |
| Mr. HEIM. Due to a lot of ignorance and not really | |
| understanding, I couldn't tell you how long ago that--how big | |
| that list was. But, yes, in all honesty, in the last 10 years, | |
| that list has grown quite a bit and became more stringent. So, | |
| there might have been policies in place, but they have gotten | |
| tighter and tighter over the last 10 years. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. If you were trying to start a business to yours | |
| similar today as you did 30 years ago, would it be possible? | |
| How much more difficult would it be today for a small business | |
| to start like yours, because that is the business you know | |
| best, versus when you started 30 years ago? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, to start the business, probably not that | |
| hard. To be compliant and do it correctly and grow, very | |
| difficult. Very difficult. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Very difficult. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Because I can tell you, unless you have an | |
| attorney, an accountant, and everything, and spending that 50- | |
| to $100,000 right up front to understand all the rules and | |
| regulations that you must abide by? | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Twice as difficult? Three times more? How much | |
| more difficult today than 30 years ago? | |
| Mr. HEIM. I would say three times more. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Okay. And that is due to, not taxes, it is due | |
| to bureaucracy and regulations. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Correct. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Added regulations. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Correct. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Okay. So what about inflation, the costs that | |
| you have been contending with? If you were doing a project 3 | |
| years ago that cost $5 million, what would that project cost | |
| just 3 years later? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, today, and I can only tell you this to try to | |
| make things simple, if you did a typical office facility today | |
| that 2 years ago might have been $125 a square foot, today you | |
| are looking at $250 a square foot. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. So, perhaps double? | |
| Mr. HEIM. Of course. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Double in a 3-year period. | |
| Mr. HEIM. A lot of it, you know, it is labor, it is | |
| material, it is, quite frankly, not being able to understand if | |
| you can get the material and people are charging more. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. And, you know, like you, I respect unions. I | |
| respect all workers. I respect all Americans, for that matter. | |
| And you can understand the joining a union doesn't label | |
| anybody anything other than they are part of a union. We | |
| support unions. | |
| But when you are expressing it related to PLAs, should the | |
| requirement be to have an opportunity to bid for a contract, be | |
| that you are a union, that you only employ unions? That | |
| certainly limits the competition, but also excludes you and 88 | |
| percent of the workforce, as you stated. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Right. I don't believe the government should put | |
| any impediments in front of anyone to able to procure work. So, | |
| we do Penn DOT work. They want to put a PLA or the federal | |
| government wants to put it. We are all prequalified. We are all | |
| bonded. We all do the work. I work with unions every day. I get | |
| hired by unions. I hire union contractors so we can be fair and | |
| we can work together. And I have a great relationship with | |
| them, but there is no need to single people out. | |
| Mr. MEUSER. Thank you for your testimony. I yield back, | |
| Chairman. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much. Let us go to Kentucky where | |
| Mr. McGarvey is standing by. He is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you. It is great to see everyone. I | |
| echo the comments of Mr. Phillips. It is great to see so many | |
| people in so many different capacities and to hear your all | |
| stories echo so much of what we saw. I was in the state | |
| legislature in Kentucky when the pandemic started, and so I was | |
| on the ground. And from the people who received PPP loans or | |
| from all the community bankers in Kentucky, we heard, who were | |
| sleeping in their offices to make sure that business had access | |
| to capital, to the people who were trying to build things and | |
| keep things going, to the number of Americans who started new | |
| business as a way to deal with some of the pressures of the | |
| pandemic. It is really great to see all of you here and to hear | |
| your stories. | |
| To make this, if I ask my questions, you know, one of the | |
| things I did yesterday before coming to Washington was drop my | |
| 4-year-old off at her childcare facility. And as the parents, | |
| working parents of three young kids, I know how vital | |
| affordable and accessible childcare is for every young family | |
| in this country. | |
| Unfortunately, like a lot of places in the United States, | |
| Kentucky is facing a childcare crisis. And we have a Kentucky | |
| Center for Economic Policy that says that over half of the | |
| Commonwealth of Kentucky is a childcare desert right now. That | |
| means little or no child care is available. Almost half of the | |
| childcare centers have closed their doors over the last decade. | |
| And when parents are able to find child care, I know this | |
| firsthand, it can cost almost as much as a year of tuition at | |
| the University of Louisville. | |
| This is something we have got to get right. In my state, | |
| over 100,000 women alone have left the workforce and not | |
| returned to the workforce because of what we are facing in | |
| child care. | |
| So, my question is for Ms. Hendrickson. You know, we hear a | |
| lot from small business owners about that there aren't enough | |
| qualified workers, that there is a lot of pressures. How can | |
| continued investment in child care and childcare centers by the | |
| federal government help with providing child care with | |
| childcare providers and also help with the labor force as a | |
| whole? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Well, we are the workforce behind the | |
| workforce. Without us, people can't work. And without us, the | |
| children will not be ready to work. Because, again, that brain | |
| development starts at birth, not when they are five or four or | |
| three or whatever magical age school officially starts. And we | |
| can also meet the diverse needs of our community with the hours | |
| that are needed. So, people who work late at night or second | |
| shift or third shift or weekends, our small businesses are | |
| there for them to help meet those needs. | |
| However, because of the fact that we can only charge so | |
| much, we cannot pay that in wages because that is the piece | |
| that is missing is that wage piece. Our military currently does | |
| fund childcare that way. The rest of the OECD countries fund | |
| childcare at .76 percent of GDP. The United States is second | |
| from the bottom, only above Croatia at .35. If we even get that | |
| up to the average, it would be enough to get childcare off of | |
| the ground. Subsidized, we would have high-quality educators | |
| who can stay in the field. Right now, three out of four people | |
| with a degree in education, early childcare education do not | |
| work in the field. We are highly sought out by other people | |
| because they know we have people skills. They know that we are | |
| educated. They know that we have patience and that we have a | |
| lot of passion. So by funding those core pieces of that wage so | |
| that we can get the wage rates up from about $12 an hour to a | |
| sustainable living wage even, let alone can measure it with our | |
| other very valuable small business owners and employees that | |
| normally are making at least 18-, 20-, $25 an hour with health | |
| care, with paid family medical leave, and with retirement. We | |
| can't even offer any of those things. | |
| My retirement right now is about $3,000 besides what I have | |
| with my husband. And that is because he has a great job. And | |
| so, you know, right there, that investment would make the world | |
| of the difference for us and our people and all of the other | |
| small businesses that rely on us and employers that rely on us | |
| in order to have a workforce. | |
| Mr. MCGARVEY. I really appreciate that you even answered | |
| some of my other questions in that really good response. But I | |
| love how you said the workforce behind the workforce, which is | |
| so important. I think it shows why continued investment and | |
| making sure we have quality, affordable childcare is important | |
| to every small business in this country. | |
| Mr. Davis, I do want to ask you a question. I am a MSSU | |
| alum. I married a Jeff City girl. So, it is great to see you | |
| here. It is great to see your success story. | |
| I also want to point out I got on your website while we | |
| have been sitting here, your sense of humor doesn't stop at the | |
| name of your business. The sauces themselves, Just For the | |
| Parking--Mild Crippling Hot Sauce, Limping Medium, and then | |
| Crippling Agony. It is great to hear your success story. | |
| And as we see individuals with different abilities that are | |
| less likely than their peers to participate in the workforce, | |
| as you noted, they face greater barriers to starting their own | |
| businesses. How can the federal government do a better job of | |
| helping job creators who do have different abilities? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Yeah, it is just grants and tax credits and | |
| things of that nature because we don't have as great as an | |
| opportunity, a lot of us, to get in the workforce, because as | |
| much as it has gotten better, there still is a lot of workplace | |
| discrimination against people with disabilities and other | |
| underprivileged individuals. And I think that people with | |
| disabilities statistically make less than even women do on | |
| average. That is not necessarily right because a lot of us, | |
| like I said, do have the same intellectual capabilities. And it | |
| is just going back to thinking how they did in the early 1900s | |
| where disabled people were only in the life skills classes and | |
| stuff like that. But it has gotten way better, and I am just | |
| here to help push the envelope even further and show everybody | |
| what can be done in such a situation. | |
| Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you. And I am out of time, but thank | |
| you all. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. McGarvey. Let us go to | |
| Texas, where Mr. Ellzey is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for | |
| being here today. | |
| And I am going to echo Mr. McGarvey on the sense of humor, | |
| Drew, that you have. And I can only imagine how many times you | |
| have gone up to a place that has some parking and you might see | |
| somebody get out that has got the placard. And I think that | |
| that is a nice shot across the bow, that Just For the Parking | |
| Hot Sauce clearly is from experience. | |
| To your parents, would you raise your hands, please? You | |
| have got to be exceptionally proud of this young man who | |
| doesn't sound like he is 17. He sounds like he is 37, 47. The | |
| wisdom in this young man is vastly beyond his years. You have | |
| to be exceptionally proud, and I guarantee you that that is the | |
| first young man in his class who is going to be a | |
| multimillionaire. | |
| And my hope is, is that at the age of 25, you sold out to | |
| somebody much, much bigger for a billion dollars, and you and | |
| your parents can go do whatever the heck you want or start | |
| another multibillion-dollar company. So thank you for your | |
| stubbornness, for your sense of humor, for the points that you | |
| have made here today. | |
| As you have been talking, I have watched everybody else | |
| around here nod their heads. So you not only speak for your | |
| family, for yourself, for your company, but you speak for many | |
| other people throughout this country. And I see a much bigger, | |
| brighter spotlight for you in the near future, but you got to | |
| get out of high school first. I am sure that is probably part | |
| of the priority. So, thank you for building this business and | |
| thank you for coming to us today. | |
| Ms. Prince, as a fellow Texan, I would just like to ask | |
| you, and it may have been briefly brought up today, as we know, | |
| the CFPB, the funding structure for the CFPB is before the | |
| Supreme Court right now. And it is going to be interesting to | |
| see what happens, if that is struck down, their funding | |
| structure, which, of course, comes from the Federal Reserve | |
| instead of the appropriations process of the United States | |
| Congress, which means there is really no mechanism for | |
| constitutionally the Congress to regulate what the CFPB does. | |
| So, I am curious to see what happens with rule 1071. Of course, | |
| that won't come out until, I think, September of next year. But | |
| how much more time is your company having to spend on meeting | |
| the restrictions or the requirements of 1071 and who does 1071 | |
| help? | |
| Ms. PRINCE. So, 1071 hasn't been enacted yet, so we are not | |
| currently collecting the information. But if enacted, we would | |
| be collecting information as though you were doing a real | |
| estate, a home mortgage. We would do all the demographics, the | |
| income, all the different pieces on every small business loan | |
| as though a small business loan can be put in a box and that | |
| all are alike, which just isn't true. | |
| So, if you look at the people here, the demographics, the | |
| needs, the supply chain needs, all the labor needs, all of | |
| those things go into what make a small business unique. And so, | |
| going forward, we would hope that there is no inaction of | |
| CFPB's 1071 rule, which really just creates a whole other layer | |
| of regulation and reporting, such as HMDA for real estate | |
| mortgages. | |
| Mr. ELLZEY. Does it help anybody get a loan? | |
| Ms. PRINCE. It doesn't help anybody get a loan. | |
| Mr. ELLZEY. Okay. | |
| Ms. PRINCE. It may, in fact, hinder people from credit | |
| access because if you are just looking at a statistical | |
| representation of the small business, you are not looking at | |
| their business plan, you are not looking at their creativity, | |
| you are not looking at their passion, you are not looking at a | |
| young man who decided that he would go to multiple small banks, | |
| to multiple manufacturers, to multiple sources before he got | |
| what he wanted and before someone recognized that that young | |
| man had a vision, he had a business plan, and he had something | |
| that would work. | |
| So it is really important that we leave some of the | |
| business decision-making in the hands of loan committees and | |
| the business access, loan access to really people who have an | |
| entrepreneurial spirit and are creative in their plans. | |
| Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate what community | |
| banks do. I started out with a big national bank, and I love | |
| that a community bank set up people I know, people who I can | |
| contact. And thank you for your service in providing for our | |
| country's finances. | |
| Ms. PRINCE. Thank you. | |
| Mr. ELLZEY. Real quick, Mr. Heim, thank you for building | |
| America. I don't have any questions for you, but I know this is | |
| a tough business to be in right now. | |
| And finally, Ms. Hendrickson, thank you for being here and | |
| thank you for taking care of the children while the rest of | |
| America works. I know it is a struggle from time to time, and I | |
| hope things turn around very quickly for you and would like to | |
| see how we can help. So, thank you all very much. | |
| I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Ellzey. We | |
| are in the city of Washington, but now we are going to the | |
| State of Washington, where Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez is standing by | |
| and she is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. GLUESENKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you so | |
| much to all of our witnesses for being here. | |
| Mr. Heim, in your testimony you mentioned your involvement | |
| in trying to get high schoolers in the trades and your early | |
| involvement in high school. You know, and I know I am part of | |
| the generation where all of our best trade schools got turned | |
| into--or trade programs got turned into computer programming | |
| classes instead of the auto shop. I work and own an auto repair | |
| shop myself, work in the trades. And our kids are being told | |
| directly and indirectly that basically you did something wrong | |
| if you ended up working with your hands for a career. And | |
| right, we are seeing the consequences of that. We are short, | |
| what, 350,000 workers in the construction trades alone. | |
| And so my question to you is, what do we do to restore the | |
| prestige and sort of the dignity back to working in the trades | |
| in your perspective? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, that is great because you are right on | |
| target. Six years ago, I worked with a state rep by the name of | |
| Michael Tobash, myself and a few other people, and we started-- | |
| in Pennsylvania, they passed a law where eight teachers can now | |
| get continuing ed credits by going out to industry. Instead of | |
| just doing other stuff, they actually go to industry. And the | |
| results out of that was tremendous. They didn't understand what | |
| the local community, what the local business has done. They | |
| didn't understand how much money the people were making, so on | |
| and so on. So, we have done that. | |
| And I can tell you, our local school, we have done open | |
| houses with industry involved. We have changed the whole | |
| concept of how we teach. And like I said, there is 197 | |
| children. Our local school that graduates 240 students, we had | |
| 88 eighth graders apply for the ninth grade to go to technical | |
| school. | |
| Now, the unfortunate part about it, because there is no | |
| funding and the school is not big enough, only about 15 percent | |
| of them got in. But that perception, I think, is changing along | |
| with what is going on and when it costs $150 to get your toilet | |
| looked at and it is not fixed yet, that is also making parents, | |
| I think, look at it a little different now. | |
| Ms. GLUESENKAMP. Yeah. Thank you so much. | |
| Ms. Hendrickson, I really appreciate you being here. Thank | |
| you so much for the work you do. I am a mother of an 18-month- | |
| old, so I was on all those wait lists. I live in a childcare | |
| desert. It is about 4 hours of driving every day that my child | |
| goes to daycare. So, thank you for sticking it out. Thank you | |
| for your persistence and to your employees who choose to work | |
| in an underfunded, underpaid job. I would not be here without | |
| folks like you and your team. So I guess my question is, well, | |
| first, could you kind of speak to the challenges of | |
| recruitment? And could you also talk, like, what can we do in | |
| Congress? | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. So, the number one challenge is the wage. | |
| We cannot pay anything. Wisconsin was about $10 an hour on | |
| family childcare. We make less than minimum wage by the time | |
| you put our hours in. And so we really need to be able to get | |
| those wages up without pricing parents out. So, we have to have | |
| some sort of system where the money goes directly to the wages. | |
| In Wisconsin, we took our ARPA funding and we actually put | |
| it into two pots. Every single program is eligible every single | |
| month to get money. One part is for operational costs, the | |
| other part goes directly to the teachers. And we fought for | |
| that as a group within our state and worked with our state | |
| licensing agency to make that happen. And that is what we are | |
| continuing to try and do because it really comes down to those | |
| wages. | |
| And we also need some more health care and paid family | |
| medical leave and other things that all of us really small | |
| businesses cannot access because we cannot afford to provide | |
| those things for ourselves or for our employees. And so that | |
| way if we had it more--took our taxes and more equitably | |
| distributed them, we would then be able to help encourage all | |
| of our people to be able to do what they love and not have to | |
| worry about being tied to a different employer because they | |
| need health care. | |
| That is also why a lot of parents actually aren't able to | |
| stay home with their children longer. They have their baby and | |
| they have to drop off after 6 weeks because they don't have any | |
| paid medical leave. That would also help offset some of those | |
| crunches for infant care, especially because if a parent is | |
| able to stay home longer, they don't need care for longer. And | |
| so those spots won't be as filled with those infants and | |
| toddlers, which I am all for health and safety requirements, I | |
| do not want ratios. Imagine having six babies, all of you, | |
| while you are trying to, you know, interact with each of them | |
| and meet their needs. | |
| Ms. GLUESENKAMP. Thank you so much. And finally, Mr. Davis, | |
| I am just so impressed with your entrepreneurship and that | |
| spirit will carry you so far, and I think it is great. | |
| One thing that I have heard from other entrepreneurs is | |
| that people who rely on SSDI or SSI or other federal support | |
| sometimes choose not to take on that risk and, you know, risk | |
| their benefits as they start a business. Do you have thoughts | |
| on that quickly? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. So, I never took SSI. I never really believed in | |
| it just because I want to save it for those that really need it | |
| because I know plenty of people that don't really need it, but | |
| are eligible for it. And those that clearly do need it, need a | |
| very comprehensive proof when it is pretty obvious, which I | |
| think is kind of contradictive. But, yeah, I never really | |
| believed in it. So, my parents did a good job of instilling | |
| that in me at a young age that you could work, so you are going | |
| to work. So, yeah, I had that by them and I thank them for that | |
| every day. | |
| Mr. BEAN. They are giving you the thumbs up behind you, | |
| too, Drew. Thank you very much. | |
| Ms. GLUESENKAMP. Thank you so much. Thank you. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Very good. We are going to Missouri, where Mr. | |
| Alford is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Chairman. What an honor to be here | |
| today. Thank you to all of our wonderful witnesses today. Drew, | |
| I think you need your own reality show. That would be some | |
| reality show. | |
| Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member, for holding this | |
| important hearing today. I am really honored to serve on the | |
| Small Business Committee, especially having been a small | |
| business owner myself in the State of Missouri. Small business, | |
| it really is the fabric of America, businesses that contribute | |
| greatly to the American economy, our way of life. Making | |
| America great is simply reclaiming the hope of the American | |
| Dream for everyone and really setting us on a renewed course of | |
| achievement, prosperity, patriotism, and unity for our country. | |
| Today, as we have all recognized here today, businesses are | |
| plagued by rampant inflation, ongoing supply chain issues, | |
| unwavering workforce shortages, overregulation in a lot of | |
| cases, we have talked about that. And I really believe that our | |
| nation is great because of small businesses. And I am honored | |
| to be here today with this Committee and other Committee | |
| Members to hold the Biden administration accountable, to create | |
| a business-friendly Small Business Administration and once | |
| again unleash the American Dream for all Missourians and for | |
| all Americans. It is so important. | |
| We have a lot of small businesses to be proud of in the | |
| great State of Missouri, in our Fourth District, like the | |
| Stanton Brothers. They are a family farm located in Boone | |
| County. Much like your story, Drew, they started their business | |
| out of a first grade project. They have grown it to a business | |
| producing 42,000 eggs per week on their fifth generation family | |
| farm. So, we are very proud of them. And it is really our job I | |
| see it, Mr. Chairman, as our job of this Committee to work | |
| together so that many more Americans can achieve the American | |
| Dream, just like the Stanton Brothers did and just like you | |
| have done, Drew. | |
| And I want to start with you, Mr. Davis. You are really an | |
| inspiration for us. I don't say that lightly. I thank you for | |
| being here, for representing Missouri and America. I kind of | |
| see it as our job to help you grow. And aside from the things | |
| that you have brought up, the grants and tax subsidies, what | |
| else can we do to make it easier for you to grow your business, | |
| hire more people, and really become a rich part of the fabric | |
| of America? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. So, for the grocer industry, that is one word: | |
| distribution. Getting more connections to the distributors is | |
| huge because you need a distributor in the grocer industry to | |
| really grow. And there is a lot of connections out there, but | |
| not enough for the amount of people there are wanting to launch | |
| these small businesses. And there is a lot of great small | |
| businesses in the grocer industry that hasn't been as fortunate | |
| as I was getting a bunch of the media attention that allowed me | |
| to get some of these connections and distribution. So, it is | |
| more making those well known so that we can have more lower | |
| priced goods for consumers. | |
| Mr. ALFORD. More competition. That would be great. Would | |
| you like a little competition for your hot sauce? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Mainly it is for those big corporations that | |
| like the price gouging and stuff because that really affects us | |
| small businesses because people look at, you know, the franks | |
| that are made in overseas manufacturing facilities with, you | |
| know, child labor. And they are like, why can I buy franks for | |
| $2.99 and here is a 6.99. So, it would really help us with the | |
| competition and getting more higher quality goods on the | |
| market. | |
| Mr. ALFORD. I want to talk a little bit about supply chain | |
| issues because I know, especially 2 years ago, getting bottles | |
| made was a difficulty. The wine industry faced that. All sorts | |
| of bottling issues going on. Are you facing that now with the | |
| supply chain issues, with bottle caps, labels, that sort of | |
| thing? Talk about that. We got 40 seconds left. | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Yeah, the lead time for those things are more | |
| substantial than ever. I know I tried to put in an order for | |
| one of my flavors for just like 6,000 bottles and they are | |
| like, sorry, we don't have that in our warehouse right now. | |
| And same with plastic caps. I mean, they are like, well, do | |
| you want just black or will you settle on white and black? I am | |
| starting to have to do different colors. It is going to look | |
| like the United States flag, which I love the United States, | |
| but it confuses the consumer. They think it is different | |
| flavors and stuff like that. | |
| Mr. ALFORD. Got 10 seconds left. Where can I sample your | |
| product? Did you bring some today? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. I did. | |
| Mr. ALFORD. All right, let us break it out. It is almost | |
| lunchtime. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you and God | |
| bless you all. I yield back. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you, Mr. Alford. Let us go to Michigan, | |
| where Ms. Scholten just walked in in the nick of time. She is | |
| recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. This here. Thank you so | |
| much. Sorry, I thought you were talking to me. Thank you, Mr. | |
| Chair. | |
| First of all, thank you to all of our witnesses. I am glad | |
| he asked the question about where the hot sauce was. I can't | |
| wait to try it myself. | |
| We in Congress can sometimes lose sight of what it is like | |
| on the ground running a small business day to day. And your | |
| perspective is invaluable, helping us craft policy that meets | |
| you where you are and helps you stay competitive. Thank you so | |
| much for taking the time to be here. | |
| These questions are for Mr. Heim. As the Ranking Member on | |
| the Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure, I am | |
| especially interested in how the contracting and subcontracting | |
| dynamics play out in the construction sector in particular. In | |
| your experience, what role do prime contractors play in helping | |
| the subcontractors grow their businesses in particular? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So today, probably more than ever, with the | |
| ability to find tradespeople, we do spend a lot of time | |
| educating, also. So, there is a lot of people that have got | |
| into our industry that necessarily are not educated. They are | |
| tradespeople, they are not business leaders. So, we do spend-- | |
| like me personally have spent a lot of time with different | |
| individuals, bringing them in, talking about what a prevailing | |
| wage is, how to comply with prevailing wages, literally how to | |
| look at blueprints. So, there is a lot of gentlemen that can | |
| build stuff out there, but really don't understand how to look | |
| at a blueprint. So, yeah, we do spend a lot of time dealing | |
| with the smaller businesses. | |
| Ms. SCHOLTEN. Mm-hmm. And what would be your number one | |
| recommendation, or one or two recommendations, that you would | |
| have for subcontractors who are eventually interested in | |
| becoming prime contractors? | |
| Mr. HEIM. Recommendations? Get ready, you are going for a | |
| ride. I don't know that I really have any recommendations. I | |
| mean, every individual is a little different. Everyone has a | |
| little different training and thinks a little different. So, it | |
| is almost on an individual basis. I don't know that there is an | |
| overall recommendation I would have. | |
| You know, save your money because there is going to be a | |
| time, right? And really, I guess the number one recommendation | |
| I would have is make a relationship with your bank, make a | |
| relationship with your accountant, have a relationship with | |
| your attorney, be part of affiliations that are part of your | |
| association so you can get educated. I mean, I think that would | |
| be the overall. | |
| Ms. SCHOLTEN. That is great. Thank you. I appreciate that. | |
| Yeah, I yield back. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you so much, Ms. Scholten. Seems it is my | |
| turn. U am Aaron Bean from Florida, and I am pleased to | |
| recognize myself for 5 minutes. | |
| I, too, was a small business owner and I started up some | |
| small business. I also was a banker. So, there is great | |
| excitement when things are happening as they are at the table | |
| right there. | |
| I want to remind you, even some of our largest businesses | |
| started small, both Apple and Google started in family garages. | |
| And if you don't believe me, you can Google that right now. | |
| And Drew Davis, how about this? Do you know the story of | |
| FedEx where Fred Smith actually wrote a term paper? I think he | |
| got a C on the creation of FedEx. And who is laughing now with | |
| that? | |
| Let us go back to Ms. Prince. As a banker myself for many | |
| years and, Mr. Phillips, you didn't get to answer Mr. Phillips' | |
| questions earlier, what are you seeing different now versus | |
| servicing loans as it was with the previous administration? Has | |
| it changed? Is there anything different about banking now than | |
| it used to be? | |
| Ms. PRINCE. So, every day the regulatory requirement | |
| increases or the interpretation of a regulatory requirement is | |
| ever-changing. So, we spend a whole lot of time. Back in the | |
| day when our family first got involved, compliance or | |
| regulatory compliance was probably a part of a person, a part | |
| of a full-time employee. Today it is at least six full-time | |
| employees. It is a whole other group of people within our | |
| organization that are trained compliance officers, trained in | |
| regulations. And we spend a whole lot more money reaching out | |
| to make sure that all of our pieces are in place, not to | |
| provide a safe and sound loan, but to provide a safe and sound | |
| loan that checks all the boxes, that has all the pieces of each | |
| and every regulation, like I said, that is an ever-changing | |
| interpretation. | |
| Mr. BEAN. I gotcha. What do your customers say? I know when | |
| I was there every loan I made to every business that I felt, | |
| you know, a part of the excitement of growing that business and | |
| making sure that they grew and, most importantly, could pay us | |
| back and that they would thrive as well. What are your | |
| customers saying? What is the word on the street at First Texas | |
| State Bank? | |
| Ms. PRINCE. So, our customers are expressing the same | |
| things about supply chains and finding labor and ever- | |
| increasing costs. Our customers are very concerned about | |
| interest rates and they are concerned about the same sort of | |
| regulatory requirements. So, they want to go in, they want to | |
| get a permit, they want to do their job. They want to do their | |
| job right. They want to know that they can predict the cost of | |
| that so that they end up walking away with a profit. And in the | |
| current environment, that is an ever-changing process, also. | |
| Right? If you started in 2019, or we started to build a | |
| building in 2020, the price went up probably 50 or 60 percent | |
| before that building was complete. And most people don't have | |
| that in their business plan. | |
| So, we need a tax environment that is good, but we need a | |
| regulatory environment that is appropriate. We need interest | |
| rates that are reasonable. We need energy. We need the things | |
| that are all the inputs into our businesses so that they can be | |
| profitable and successful. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much. | |
| Ms. PRINCE. And I am with you. Every one of those | |
| businesses---- | |
| Mr. BEAN. You feel for them. | |
| Ms. PRINCE.--we are attached to them, we have a partnership | |
| with them. We are there to make sure that we weather the storm | |
| with them. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Very good. No, I am with you. | |
| Mr. Heim, I have got a lot of questions, but guess what? | |
| That clock on me is eaten up. You have talked about inflation | |
| kicking your tail, but there is something on your mind right | |
| now. What is it? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, in dealing with banks for the last 30 years, | |
| the one thing that I really notice is as these regulations grew | |
| and as your conditions grew, right, we lost our relationship | |
| with our bankers. So, what used to be you go out to lunch, they | |
| start to fully understand your business and understand why you | |
| need what you need. Today, I don't think that is there anymore. | |
| I think you are writing on a piece of paper on if they feel | |
| adequate for you to get a loan or not. But it is no longer that | |
| personal relationship. | |
| Mr. BEAN. To that end, there are people like Ms. Prince-- | |
| and I thrived on that because the big banks, I was a small | |
| little banker and that was my little secret weapon that I could | |
| develop that relationship. So, she is already nodding, she gets | |
| that. And that is why bankers like Ms. Prince are going to | |
| thrive. | |
| With the last few seconds that I have, let us go back to | |
| Drew Davis. Drew Davis, everybody wants to know you are 17. Are | |
| you a junior? You are a junior now, about to be a senior or you | |
| are a senior? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, I am a senior running my business out of the | |
| library 5 hours a day because I only have two classes. | |
| Mr. BEAN. No. Well, we are all proud of it. Your folks are | |
| proud. They are beaming tall. But with the last few seconds, | |
| everybody wants to know, what are you doing next? Are you going | |
| to college? Are you going to just go full-time on the hot | |
| sauce? What is next for Drew Davis? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. I mean, I don't really know because every time I | |
| think I know what is next, something else happens. But to that | |
| tune, I think I am going to be traveling a lot next year and | |
| into later this year, just focusing on scaling and getting our | |
| story out there because I think it is an important one. And | |
| just have as many people get Crippling Hot Sauce in their hands | |
| as humanly possible. | |
| Mr. BEAN. Very good. And hopefully, a lot of people are | |
| seeing it today. Let us wrap up with Maryland. Mr. Mfume, you | |
| are recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. MFUME. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to add | |
| my thanks to the others who have commended you for gathering us | |
| for this hearing today. I want to particularly thank the | |
| witnesses for diverse testimony. As Dean Phillips said when he | |
| was here earlier, I think he referred to all of you as a | |
| mosaic, a banker, a construction worker, company, a product | |
| maker, and a service provider. | |
| One of the things about being the caboose is that in the | |
| end, everything that can be said has been said. It is just that | |
| not everybody has said it. So, bear with me for a few minutes | |
| as I go through just really some observations. I don't know if | |
| I have got that many questions. | |
| Mr. Heim, let me just let you know that I heard your | |
| invitation to Representative Meuser, and I see he did not say | |
| yes. So, I am going to commit him to come work with you from | |
| can't-see in the morning to can't-see at night in Pennsylvania. | |
| And when I go on to the floor to vote, I will let him know that | |
| he is expected to follow up. I am doing unto him as he would do | |
| unto me. Trust me. | |
| And one of the things that has been interesting from my | |
| perspective is the fact that so many people, Mr. Chairman, have | |
| talked about children and their children and other children and | |
| providing and also building a future for those children. I keep | |
| hearing the terms three-year-olds and four-year-olds. And that | |
| was a long time ago for me. So, I was particularly happy that | |
| Ms. Prince mentioned and said, does anybody remember the 1980s? | |
| Yes, there are some of us still around who remember that. And | |
| for me, the perspective is interesting. In the 1980s, I was a | |
| freshman on this Committee. Ronald Reagan was president, and I | |
| spent five terms here in this Committee hearing testimony like | |
| this. | |
| My angst is that now, many, many years later, I am still | |
| hearing the same issues, the same problems. And I wonder, is it | |
| a matter of having come a long way or still having a much | |
| longer way to go. | |
| I left this body after five terms on my own, walked out the | |
| door and wanted to go see the rest of the world. And here I am | |
| 26 years later, back on this committee hearing this. So, I am | |
| hoping that as we establish, Mr. Chair, a record here that that | |
| record really provides direction so that we can come out of | |
| this fashioning legislation to be able to assist with the | |
| problems that we have heard about today, which are not new, but | |
| seriously should not be allowed to continue and to go on. It is | |
| a good record. I want to thank all of you for adding to it. | |
| I am going to use this. I think I have got 2 minutes here | |
| just to say a couple of things and ask a couple of quick | |
| questions. Ms. Hendrickson, you talked about the increased | |
| costs that you are facing and how, unfortunately, you have got | |
| to continue to pass it on and pass it on to parents. Unlike big | |
| corporations, small businesses don't have teams of lawyers and | |
| tax accountants. And so I am really interested in knowing if | |
| you have some thoughts on the tax code and how it affects you | |
| and a suggestion of something that might be done to make it | |
| more palatable. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. I think just fair taxation in general. All | |
| of us small business owners pay a much larger percent of our | |
| income into a system that then takes that money and it goes to | |
| the larger corporations and goes to those types of things so | |
| that our small businesses have a harder time then and are | |
| paying for those large businesses to buy back stock and things | |
| like that for their shareholders. | |
| Mr. MFUME. So, a greater sense of fairness. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yes, definitely. And reinvesting in our | |
| people, especially our rural communities, because everybody is | |
| leaving because main street businesses are leaving. And when | |
| somebody drives through, they do not have a place to stop to | |
| eat because there is nothing left. We can look at it as like | |
| our interstate system. They go around everybody, and the | |
| fastest person who can drive on that the fastest gets---- | |
| Mr. MFUME. I see. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON.--the most instead of our. | |
| Mr. MFUME. So, you would support tax credits for | |
| reinvestments---- | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yes. | |
| Mr. MFUME.--back into small businesses. | |
| Ms. HENDRICKSON. Yeah. | |
| Mr. MFUME. Good. Mr. Davis, I want to ask you just one or | |
| two quick things. First of all, I want to commend you. I have | |
| got a 17-year-old grandson, so he is on his way to college, and | |
| in 4 years I may send him directly to you so that he might find | |
| a way to get his first job. But I want to commend you seriously | |
| on what you are doing. I don't even remember what I was doing | |
| at 17, but I know I wasn't as accomplished as you are. So thank | |
| you for being here. | |
| Thank you also for the simple eloquence of your example so | |
| that other people who watch this, who may have a disability, | |
| may come to understand that that is not the end of the world | |
| for them. And we have heard on this committee over and over | |
| again, well, why do you need to focus on this group and why do | |
| you need to focus on that group? And we focus too much on women | |
| or we focus too much on minorities or disadvantaged businesses | |
| or veterans. Well, I am going to add to that category that we | |
| ought to find some way to focus also on individuals like | |
| yourself who have overcome a great disability and who are | |
| contributing back to the country. So I want to congratulate you | |
| on that. | |
| I see my time--this time does not last long, ladies and | |
| gentlemen. It is fleeting. Mine has expired and it is starting | |
| to flash in front of me. So, let me just thank you again for | |
| being here for your testimonies. | |
| Drew, I do have a few seconds. Would you go ahead and, for | |
| the record, kind of sum up what your feelings are about this, | |
| particularly from your perspective? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. Yes. So, I believe, like you mentioned, that | |
| from my ownership of Crippling Hot Sauce, millions of dollars,, | |
| of tax dollars could be generated off of just simple grants | |
| from those individuals that aren't as fortunate as I am. I have | |
| been lucky enough to meet a bunch of individuals, and I just | |
| really thank everybody that has been with me along the way. But | |
| I have talked to hundreds of people with disabilities through | |
| my kind of statistical analysis just to see how people respond | |
| off of the name. And I also ask them simple questions. And the | |
| main answer is, man, we would like to do something like you. We | |
| just don't know where to start because there is not | |
| representation and there is not many resources out there. | |
| Mr. MFUME. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. Now we go to Mr. Molinaro for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some prepared | |
| questions I wanted to get to, but I wanted to echo my | |
| colleagues' comments. Eighty percent of those with disabilities | |
| are unemployed in America. Eighty percent. And Mr. Davis, Drew, | |
| I am going to plant a question your mind and I am going to let | |
| you answer it last. | |
| I have spent a great deal of time in the disabilities | |
| workspace. Creating a pipeline to jobs is so, so challenging. | |
| You are inspiring in your own right. But there are countless | |
| young people and adults living with intellectual, physical, and | |
| developmental disabilities today who would like to enter the | |
| workforce. I would like you to close. I am going to take my | |
| time, but I want you to close with the one thing that you want | |
| them to know about how to be a success. And I say this as the | |
| father of a child with a disability who often needs to be | |
| inspired. And I want her to hear your words before we close | |
| today. | |
| Mr. Chairman, there is little question that small | |
| businesses are the backbone of our local economy. Seventy | |
| percent of new jobs are created by existing small businesses. | |
| During the last 2-1/2 years, small businesses felt the brunt of | |
| the pandemic economic closure and the challenges that we face. | |
| I know many of my colleagues have already asked so many | |
| questions already. I am sorry that I might repeat one or two in | |
| my few moments. | |
| But first to Mr. Heim. I live in a place where access to | |
| workforce, like lots of places in America, is a challenge. But | |
| because it is a more rural part of New York, limited access to | |
| transportation. Daycare is a massive obstacle. Educational | |
| opportunity is limited, and in many cases, of course, New York | |
| leads the nation in out-migration. So, we see more people | |
| leaving other states than any other place in America. | |
| Can you talk briefly? What are the things you have done or | |
| would do to expand access to that workforce? | |
| Mr. HEIM. So, you are asking how do we get them not to | |
| leave? | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Yes. I mean, I know the answer. | |
| Mr. HEIM. We are in the same shape. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Yeah. | |
| Mr. HEIM. Pennsylvania is the same way. So, we are in a | |
| rural area, also. You know, honestly, I believe it starts at | |
| high school. It starts at middle school. We need to retrain the | |
| way kids are thinking. We need to get them to understand that, | |
| you know, doing what we do in our trades or being in | |
| manufacturing is a good thing. There is a lot of money to be | |
| made out there. And in our industry there is something to be | |
| very proud of. When you are done working for the day, you could | |
| step back and you can look at something for the rest of your | |
| life and say, I was part of that and you can take your | |
| grandchildren there and so on. So, it is really educating the | |
| youth, really, and getting a mindset change. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Yeah. We often say that our educational | |
| outcomes don't meet our economic needs. And in some ways, the | |
| lack of vocational training, applied sciences, and others not | |
| only diminishes the value of the work, but demoralizes the | |
| individual. And I find that many people trying to enter the | |
| workforce, in particular, lacking access to that kind of | |
| education feel worth less. And, of course, they spent 2 years | |
| listening to governors like mine say that certain people were | |
| essential and certain people were not as if government has any | |
| right to dictate. So I appreciate you pointed that. Did you | |
| want to add to that? | |
| Mr. HEIM. No. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Ms. Prince, so, you know, my part of New | |
| York, upstate, rural, massive what we call financial deserts, | |
| banking deserts, access to capital is a major concern. What are | |
| the--what particular steps would make sense to broaden access | |
| to capital, in particular, support and spur innovation? Knowing | |
| that Drew gets the last 60 seconds of my time. | |
| Ms. PRINCE. Okay. So. in our organization, we have 14 | |
| locations. Some of those locations are in the metroplex, some | |
| of those locations are in communities as small as 1,500 people. | |
| So, we have made a commitment to those deserts, as you say, to | |
| make sure that they still have access to community bankers who | |
| are focused on their needs and preserving their way of life. | |
| When you think about the people who have left to take-- | |
| because they didn't want a construction job, the same thing has | |
| happened across the country in ag jobs. Ag families have lost | |
| generation after generation to the city. And we need those | |
| people back just like we need the construction people back. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate | |
| the opportunity to Chair the Subcommittee on Innovation | |
| Workforce Development and I appreciate that honor. Drew is a | |
| living example of what we need to do to spur innovation. | |
| Drew, what would you tell those living with disabilities | |
| what they need to do to be a success? | |
| Mr. DAVIS. So, mine would be just to push the envelope. | |
| There is a bunch of technological resources you got out there | |
| from technology. My favorite new one is AI and which I use to | |
| write a lot of my captions because I can't write as fast as a | |
| lot of people can. But it is just to use your resources. Don't | |
| be afraid of them. | |
| And live your life like a story, one page at a time, and | |
| just continue seeing what you could do. If you fail, it is | |
| okay. If you don't, you are a legend. | |
| Mr. MOLINARO. Mr. Chairman, you are a legend. I yield back | |
| my time. | |
| Chairman WILLIAMS. That is a great way to close. And I want | |
| to thank all the witnesses today. You all have really done a | |
| great job. And one thing I want you to take back home, because | |
| everybody looks at Washington, we are a disaster. We are a mess | |
| up here, we know that. But at the same time, I think you can | |
| see today that we do have a lot of things we agree on. And this | |
| was a great hearing today where I think everybody agrees on the | |
| importance of small business and that sort of thing. So I want | |
| to thank all of you for being here. | |
| So, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to | |
| submit additional materials and written questions for the | |
| witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the | |
| witnesses. I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly. | |
| And if there is no other further business, without | |
| objection, the Committee is adjourned. Thank you. | |
| [Whereupon, 11:46 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] | |
| A P P E N D I X | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| <all> | |
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