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| <title> - U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE COUNTERTERRORISM BUREAU: FY 2017 BUDGET</title> | |
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| [House Hearing, 114 Congress] | |
| [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] | |
| U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE COUNTERTERRORISM BUREAU: FY 2017 BUDGET | |
| ======================================================================= | |
| HEARING | |
| BEFORE THE | |
| SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM, NONPROLIFERATION, AND TRADE | |
| OF THE | |
| COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS | |
| HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES | |
| ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS | |
| SECOND SESSION | |
| __________ | |
| MAY 17, 2016 | |
| __________ | |
| Serial No. 114-161 | |
| __________ | |
| Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ | |
| or | |
| http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/ | |
| ______ | |
| U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE | |
| 20-173PDF WASHINGTON: 2016 | |
| _____________________________________________________________________________ | |
| For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, | |
| Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov. Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 | |
| Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 | |
| COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS | |
| EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman | |
| CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York | |
| ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California | |
| DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York | |
| STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey | |
| JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia | |
| MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida | |
| TED POE, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York | |
| MATT SALMON, Arizona KAREN BASS, California | |
| DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts | |
| TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island | |
| JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN GRAYSON, Florida | |
| MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California | |
| PAUL COOK, California ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California | |
| RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas GRACE MENG, New York | |
| SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania LOIS FRANKEL, Florida | |
| RON DeSANTIS, Florida TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii | |
| MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas | |
| TED S. YOHO, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois | |
| CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania | |
| SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee | |
| REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin | |
| DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan | |
| LEE M. ZELDIN, New York | |
| DANIEL DONOVAN, New York | |
| Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director | |
| Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director | |
| ------ | |
| Subcommittee on Terrorism, Nonproliferation, and Trade | |
| TED POE, Texas, Chairman | |
| JOE WILSON, South Carolina WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts | |
| DARRELL E. ISSA, California BRAD SHERMAN, California | |
| PAUL COOK, California BRIAN HIGGINS, New York | |
| SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas | |
| REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois | |
| LEE M. ZELDIN, New York | |
| C O N T E N T S | |
| ---------- | |
| Page | |
| WITNESS | |
| Mr. Justin Siberell, Acting Coordinator for Counterterrorism, | |
| Bureau of Counterterrorism, U.S. Department of State........... 3 | |
| LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING | |
| Mr. Justin Siberell: Prepared statement.......................... 6 | |
| APPENDIX | |
| Hearing notice................................................... 24 | |
| Hearing minutes.................................................. 25 | |
| U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE COUNTERTERRORISM BUREAU: FY 2017 BUDGET | |
| ---------- | |
| TUESDAY, MAY 17, 2016 | |
| House of Representatives, | |
| Subcommittee on Terrorism, Nonproliferation, and Trade, | |
| Committee on Foreign Affairs, | |
| Washington, DC. | |
| The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:03 p.m., in | |
| room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ted Poe | |
| (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. | |
| Mr. Poe. The subcommittee will come to order. | |
| Without objection, all members may have 5 days to submit | |
| statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record, | |
| subject to the length limitation in the rules. | |
| The purpose of this hearing is to examine the budget for | |
| the Department of State Counterterrorism Bureau, Fiscal Year | |
| 2017. I have a lengthy opening statement, but without | |
| objection, I will make it a part of the record and make some | |
| brief comments. | |
| The purpose of this is to determine the Counterterrorism | |
| Bureau's budget. Terrorism is on the rise throughout the world | |
| in different places, especially with ISIS. In any event, the | |
| administration has asked for a reduction in the | |
| Counterterrorism Bureau budget even though that to me is | |
| counterproductive in the sense that terrorism is on the rise. | |
| On the other hand, my concern is about evaluations that | |
| have or have not been made by the success of what the | |
| Counterterrorism Bureau is doing or not doing. Personally, I am | |
| not satisfied that the evaluation of how the money is being | |
| spent and what we are doing is working. So the purpose of this | |
| hearing is to examine both of those, whether the budget should | |
| be cut or raised and whether the evaluations are being produced | |
| and what are the results of those evaluations. | |
| Without objection, I will allow now the former ranking | |
| member of the committee, Mr. Sherman, to make an opening | |
| statement from California. You are recognized. | |
| Mr. Sherman. Thank you. I will use my opening statement to | |
| renew the plea I have been making for the State Department for | |
| at least 5 years and that is that you employ a few individuals | |
| who are hired solely for their knowledge of Islamic | |
| jurisprudence, Islamic history, and Islamic law. To think that | |
| we can combat Islamic extremist terrorism without a single | |
| person at the State Department who has memorized the Quran | |
| means that we don't understand the mental world, the | |
| theological world that our potential adversaries live in. | |
| We have a State Department with people who think that you | |
| can show the evil of al-Baghdadi if you can show him personally | |
| executing a defenseless Yazidi. The fact is they will put that | |
| up on their Web page as a recruitment tool. We need people who | |
| understand that if you could just get a picture of him eating a | |
| ham sandwich, that would undermine ISIS and its recruiting | |
| ability. | |
| I remember the conflict between the United States and | |
| Indonesia over whether Indonesia would give us samples of avian | |
| flu and called an Islamic scholar who said, well, we would turn | |
| to the hadith about what the prophet said about rabies, which | |
| is, after all, just another virus that infects an animal. That | |
| is not the kind of knowledge that you can get at Princeton. | |
| Woodrow Wilson did a great job. He did not memorize the Quran. | |
| So we need State Department people to be able to have | |
| access onsite to that kind of scholarship and to an | |
| understanding of Islamic jurisprudence that is every bit as | |
| sophisticated as the knowledge we have on the Vienna Convention | |
| on the Law of Treaties and why the Habsburgs took this or that | |
| position in the negotiations in 18 whatever when that--we have | |
| a Eurocentric body of knowledge in a very smart State | |
| Department, and we are going to have to hire just a few people | |
| who would never pass the test because it is written by the | |
| Woodrow Wilson school and instead could pass the test to | |
| demonstrate a real knowledge of Islam. | |
| With that, I yield back. | |
| Mr. Poe. I thank the gentleman. | |
| The chair recognizes the ranking member and gentleman from | |
| Massachusetts for his opening statement. | |
| Mr. Keating. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for conducting this | |
| hearing. I would also like to thank our witness, Mr. Siberell, | |
| for being here to discuss the State Department's | |
| Counterterrorism Bureau. | |
| In our country's fight against terrorism, one indelible | |
| truth has been stated over and over, and it is in order to | |
| truly degrade and ultimately defeat foreign terrorists, | |
| organizations like ISIS and al-Qaeda, we need a whole | |
| government-effort approach. The capacity-building programs | |
| funded and coordinated by the State Department's | |
| Counterterrorism Bureau are the types of activities in which | |
| our Government must continue to engage if we are to be | |
| successful in achieving the Bureau's mission of forging | |
| partnerships with our partners at home and abroad in | |
| counterterrorism law enforcement, counter-threat financing, | |
| counter-radicalization efforts, border security, and restricted | |
| terrorist travel. | |
| Undoubtedly, the Bureau has worked to accomplish these | |
| critical objectives while the State Department has revamped its | |
| efforts to tackle one of the hardest aspects of | |
| counterterrorism, and that is combating violent extremism. | |
| The new Center for Global Engagement is attempting to | |
| effectively coordinate, integrate, and synchronize messaging to | |
| foreign audiences that undermines the disinformation espoused | |
| by violent extremist groups. To be sure, this is not an easy | |
| task, and we will hear in detail from Mr. Siberell on the | |
| challenges facing the Bureau. | |
| I am particularly interested in hearing how leadership has | |
| addressed a Government Accountability Office report released | |
| last year on resources, performance, and coordination within | |
| the Bureau. | |
| Finally, it is vital that we ensure that funds | |
| appropriated, the Counterterrorism Bureau for these capacity- | |
| building programs are being used wisely, and the United States | |
| is getting a good return on its investment. | |
| As I stated at the beginning, the Counterterrorism Bureau | |
| plays a critical role in our fight against terrorism, | |
| particularly with regards to interagency and regional | |
| collaboration. I look forward to hearing from our witness today | |
| and to discuss the issues that will ensure. | |
| I yield back. | |
| Mr. Poe. I thank the gentleman. | |
| Without objection, the witness' prepared statement will be | |
| made part of the record. I ask that the witness keep the | |
| presentation to no more than 5 minutes. | |
| I will introduce the witness that we have. Mr. Justin | |
| Siberell is the acting coordinator for the Bureau of | |
| Counterterrorism at the State Department. He is a career member | |
| of the Senior Foreign Service and before joining the CT Bureau, | |
| he served as a principal officer in Dubai, and he has also | |
| worked in Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, and Panama. | |
| So thank you for being here, and you are recognized. | |
| STATEMENT OF MR. JUSTIN SIBERELL, ACTING COORDINATOR FOR | |
| COUNTERTERRORISM, BUREAU OF COUNTERTERRORISM, U.S. DEPARTMENT | |
| OF STATE | |
| Mr. Siberell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Poe, | |
| Ranking Member Keating, members of the subcommittee, thank you | |
| for the opportunity to appear before you today. | |
| This afternoon, I would like to briefly highlight the | |
| Bureau of Counterterrorism's work to advance the foremost | |
| counterterrorism priorities of the United States. | |
| As you noted, Mr. Chairman, I have submitted a longer | |
| statement for the record. | |
| As you know, the United States faces a fluid and fast- | |
| changing terrorism threat environment. The international | |
| community has made progress in degrading terrorism safe havens, | |
| but terrorist groups, especially ISIL and al-Qaeda, remain | |
| resilient. | |
| Recent attacks in Bamako, Beirut, Brussels, Jakarta, and | |
| Paris have demonstrated the reach and continued determination | |
| of these groups to commit violence against civilians. These and | |
| other attacks have raised the urgency and political will of our | |
| partners to act against the evolving threat posed by ISIL, al- | |
| Qaeda, and their affiliates. | |
| President Obama has called for the United States to develop | |
| more effective partnerships around the world to confront, | |
| disrupt, and defeat the global threat from terrorism. The | |
| Bureau of Counterterrorism is playing a critical role in | |
| developing those partnerships. | |
| Success of U.S. counterterrorism efforts increasingly | |
| depends upon capable civilian partners, police, prosecutors, | |
| border and aviation security personnel, prison officials, and | |
| community leaders. As with our own domestic experience, these | |
| actors are on the frontlines in preventing and responding to | |
| terrorism in their communities. | |
| The Bureau is leading efforts to build capacity and | |
| cooperation among these various civilian actors. We appreciate | |
| the Congress' appropriation of $175 million for the | |
| Counterterrorism Partnership's Fund in Fiscal Year 2016. We ask | |
| for your continued support in Fiscal Year 2017. With these | |
| resources we will strengthen the ability of key law enforcement | |
| and criminal justice actors from the Sahel to Southeast Asia. | |
| We are focusing on supporting countries that can help prevent | |
| ISIL's global expansion while not losing sight of al-Qaeda and | |
| its affiliates. | |
| We are expanding our engagement with European partners to | |
| ensure they enhance capabilities to stem the flow of foreign | |
| terrorist fighters, improve information-sharing, and disrupt | |
| local terrorist recruitment networks. We believe these efforts | |
| are yielding results. Since 2014, 45 countries with which we | |
| have engaged have passed new laws or updated existing laws to | |
| address foreign terrorist fighters. | |
| Through the Bureau's diplomatic efforts, we now have | |
| enhanced information-sharing arrangements with 55 countries to | |
| assist efforts to identify, track, and deter the travel of | |
| known and suspected terrorists. We have also supported INTERPOL | |
| to enhance its ability to share critical foreign terrorist | |
| fighter identity data with countries around the world. Fifty- | |
| eight countries plus the United Nations now contribute foreign | |
| terrorist fighter profiles to INTERPOL. | |
| As part of our Fiscal Year 2017 request, we have also asked | |
| for additional funding for our Terrorist Interdiction Program. | |
| This program provides a highly valuable capability for | |
| countries to strengthen border controls through enhanced | |
| technology and training. | |
| Mr. Chairman, as part of our overall strategy, we believe | |
| that we must increase our focus on preventing the spread of | |
| violent extremism to stop the radicalization, recruitment, and | |
| mobilization of people, especially young people, to engage in | |
| terrorist activities. | |
| Secretary Kerry has directed the Bureau of Counterterrorism | |
| to play the lead role in a more strategic, integrated, and | |
| ultimately accountable approach to countering violent | |
| extremism. As notified to the Congress, the Department is | |
| increasing personnel resources in the Bureau to support this | |
| mission and renaming the Bureau as the Bureau of | |
| Counterterrorism and Countering Violent Extremism. We will be | |
| working very closely with the newly established interagency | |
| Global Engagement Center and USAID in this effort. | |
| The Department has also requested additional resources for | |
| CVE programming in Fiscal Year 2017, including as part of the | |
| Counterterrorism Partnerships Fund to expand programs to help | |
| counter violent extremist recruitment and messaging. | |
| Finally, Mr. Chairman, as documented in our statement for | |
| the record, we have made changes within the Bureau over the | |
| past year to foster a culture of strategic planning, learning, | |
| innovation, and collaboration. We have enhanced the monitoring | |
| and evaluation of our foreign assistance programming, | |
| especially our largest programs. Since I last testified before | |
| this committee, we have launched a comprehensive third-party | |
| evaluation of our Antiterrorism Assistance Program. That | |
| evaluation will be completed later this month. We have also | |
| awarded a new third-party evaluation of our CVE programs. We | |
| look forward to briefing you and your staff on the results of | |
| these evaluations. | |
| Mr. Chairman, there is much more work to do. The terrorism | |
| landscape is dynamic, and we must continue to enhance and adapt | |
| our efforts. I am proud of what we are accomplishing at the | |
| Bureau of Counterterrorism. We have a talented team of people | |
| who are committed to the work of countering terrorism and | |
| keeping the country safe. | |
| We greatly appreciate the interest of Congress and your | |
| committee in support of these efforts. I look forward to your | |
| questions and our discussion. Thank you. | |
| [The prepared statement of Mr. Siberell follows:] | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| ---------- | |
| Mr. Poe. I thank the gentleman. | |
| The House is in the midst of a series of votes, so the | |
| subcommittee will recess until 5 minutes after the last vote | |
| has ended. So the subcommittee is in recess. We will reconvene | |
| 5 minutes after the last vote has ended. | |
| [Recess.] | |
| Mr. Poe. The subcommittee will come to order. | |
| I will recognize myself for 5 minutes for a few questions. | |
| I have three questions, and we have 5 minutes to get the | |
| questions and the answers. So my first question is the | |
| administration maintains that counterterrorism is a top | |
| priority, but why is the administration wanting a budget cut? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Mr. Chairman, I think if you look at the | |
| annual requests that go from Fiscal Year 2015, 2016, 2017, you | |
| will find a significant increase in the '17 request from our | |
| '15 budget. And the reason is that we received a significant | |
| increase in '16 out of the Counterterrorism Partnerships Fund, | |
| an additional $175 million that we are working now to develop a | |
| sound process for stewardship of those additional funds. And we | |
| very much appreciate the Congress' support for that program. | |
| For '17 when we put together our request, we looked at what | |
| we believed would be required to sustain those efforts, those | |
| increased efforts in '16, and we determined that an $80 million | |
| request was adequate for that purpose, and bearing in mind that | |
| we want to ensure effective stewardship of those funds. So | |
| either 175 in '16 addition, and then we have asked for 80 | |
| additional in '17. So it may appear to be a decrease from the | |
| '16 request because we are asking for less under CTPF from '17 | |
| than we received in '16, but overall, it is a significant | |
| increase. I mean, we are talking about a comparison of our | |
| request in '17 from what our budget was in '15 is a more than | |
| $50 million increase in our counterterrorism capacity-building | |
| foreign assistance budget. | |
| Mr. Poe. Okay. We are not reading the same statistics, or | |
| at least I am not reading them the same way you are. The | |
| Counterterrorism Bureau wants 31 percent less money than last | |
| year, is that correct or not? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, I would characterize it as our effort | |
| to sustain this significant increase we received in '16, and I | |
| will put it that way. | |
| Mr. Poe. I mean is it--no, put it this way. Is it 31 | |
| percent less than last year or not? I don't want to be | |
| argumentative, but I need or yes or no? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes. The $80 million we requested is less | |
| than the $175 we received in '16 under the CTPF, yes. | |
| Mr. Poe. The administration promised in 2011 that they | |
| would have a strategy to combat terrorists' use of social | |
| media, 2011. When is that strategy going to be produced because | |
| it hasn't been produced? Do you know? | |
| Mr. Siberell. The administration is working very closely | |
| internally in the United States Government with the domestic | |
| agencies, the FBI, Department of Justice, others---- | |
| Mr. Poe. Excuse me again. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes. | |
| Mr. Poe. Do you know when that is going to be done? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Is this the strategy you are referring to | |
| from the State Department? I missed the beginning of your | |
| question. | |
| Mr. Poe. Yes, online radicalization by the terrorists' use | |
| of social media, and we were going to have a strategy to combat | |
| that, and the President--the administration promised this in | |
| 2011. We don't have it. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Okay. | |
| Mr. Poe. When is it going to happen? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Right. So we have a strategy on countering | |
| violent extremism that we are just preparing to release with | |
| the State Department and USAID that does, as one of its | |
| objectives, address the need for effective counter-messaging | |
| and counter-narratives, and that is one of the five objectives | |
| in that strategy that is to be released within the coming week. | |
| Mr. Poe. Within a week? | |
| Mr. Siberell. That is the State Department, USAID | |
| countering violent extremism strategy, joint strategy. | |
| Mr. Poe. All right. And the last question is GAO reported | |
| that the CT Bureau has not evaluated its Countering Violent | |
| Extremism program despite the Bureau saying since 2012 it would | |
| evaluate the program. When is that going to happen? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. In | |
| our hearing last year we discussed the importance of evaluation | |
| of CTE Bureau-funded Foreign Assistance Programs, and you | |
| emphasized the importance of this, and we have taken that very | |
| seriously. We have undertaken a number of evaluations, | |
| including we have put out a notice of funding for a | |
| comprehensive third-party evaluation of our Countering Violent | |
| Extremism programs in three countries: Indonesia, Kenya, and | |
| Bangladesh. That has been out for funding. It is being awarded | |
| now, and we expect that that evaluation will be completed by | |
| the end of this year. | |
| Mr. Poe. So the GAO, their answer would--I mean, it hasn't | |
| happened yet, and your answer is that it will be done by the | |
| end of the year, there will be an evaluation? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes. | |
| Mr. Poe. Combating terrorism, I think we can all agree to | |
| the fact that it is important because terrorism is on the rise. | |
| Tell me why we should justify the CT Bureau? Why should | |
| Congress justify its existence? Try to keep it simple if you | |
| would. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Sure. I think it is a very good question, and | |
| I appreciate the opportunity to answer. | |
| People often think of counterterrorism as a mission for law | |
| enforcement agencies in the domestic realm or for the military | |
| or intelligence agencies in the international realm. In fact, | |
| diplomacy plays a key role in bringing together partnerships | |
| and nations to address our primary counterterrorism objectives. | |
| We see that in the coalitions that we build to defeat terrorist | |
| groups on a regional, sub-regional basis, or even a global | |
| basis. So the global coalition to fight ISIL is an example. The | |
| coalition of African partners we have developed to fight Boko | |
| Haram in West Africa, the coalition of nations we have helped | |
| to develop to fight Al-Shabaab in East Africa. | |
| Those are just examples of where diplomacy plays a key | |
| role, and the Bureau of Counterterrorism leads in a number of | |
| those efforts to build international will, political will and | |
| partnership and cooperation against these common threats. | |
| The other piece of what we do--and we appreciate, again, | |
| the funding we receive from Congress for this purpose--is to | |
| help build capacity in our primary counterterrorism partners. | |
| In line with the President's policy of developing strong | |
| partnerships, I know the Counterterrorism Partnership Fund we | |
| are helping to build capacity among our partners across the | |
| civilian agencies so not just in--and our DOD colleagues handle | |
| that on the military side, but we helped to build improved CT | |
| legislation, improved judicial capability to prosecute | |
| terrorist suspects, improved border security measures, improved | |
| civilian security agencies. | |
| All of those programs are funded through the support you | |
| provide to our bureau, and that is what we execute in our | |
| foreign assistance. So on the one level we are working | |
| diplomatically to build coalitions to address our terrorism | |
| challenges, and then we are trying to build capacity in our | |
| partners to address those in the regions from which these | |
| threats emanate. | |
| Mr. Poe. Thank you. The chair recognizes the ranking | |
| member, the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Keating. | |
| Mr. Keating. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Last week, I was in Tunisia, and the situation there was | |
| described in terms of dealing with terrorist issues there by | |
| the President himself as fragile, a term he used in our | |
| conversation at least 10 times by my count. And you are looking | |
| at a country like that that is struggling to do so many things, | |
| and he kept impressing on us, too, and I have seen it in other | |
| countries, particularly in that region, where they are getting | |
| stressed, leaders are, particularly leaders that are trying to | |
| move forward in a way that improves democracy. | |
| The economic issue is just squeezing them on one end in | |
| terms of support. Some of the other changes that languish, too, | |
| are a problem. | |
| How is the Bureau working, you know, to coordinate not only | |
| counterterrorism but also rule-of-law issues? How do they | |
| factor that in, economic issues? Because I don't think there | |
| will be a lasting effort with this without a strong | |
| collaboration on all of those issues. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Thank you for the question, Congressman. | |
| With Tunisia, I agree entirely that that is a country that | |
| is passing through a very important political transition but | |
| that has caused significant fragility within the government | |
| system. And you can absolutely correlate the rise of terrorist | |
| groups to failures in governance in certain parts of the world | |
| and certainly in North Africa and the Middle East. And we see | |
| that in Libya, obviously, and Yemen and other places where the | |
| government has collapsed and the terrorist groups rise. | |
| So it is absolutely important that we help the Tunisian | |
| Government through this transition, and that absolutely | |
| includes economic support to assist the government to ensure | |
| that their economy produces the jobs and hopes and | |
| opportunities for young people that have high expectations from | |
| this political transition. | |
| Our counterterrorism assistance is also robust with the | |
| Tunisian Government and has grown. They face a significant | |
| threat from regional groups like al-Qaeda and the Islamic | |
| Maghreb who have come out of Algeria and have brought threats | |
| into Tunisia. Of course, we have seen the attacks on the museum | |
| and the tourist site in Sousse. Those were planned by | |
| individuals---- | |
| Mr. Keating. I was there. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes. So this is a country under assault | |
| effectively from these terrorist groups, and it does require a | |
| comprehensive response from us---- | |
| Mr. Keating. Yes. I think they deserve great credit for | |
| what they are trying to do, but they are definitely in a very | |
| tenuous situation doing it. | |
| Let me just shift quickly. Twitter requested last week as | |
| well, one of its partners Dataminr, a service that offers | |
| advanced social media analytics and early detection of major | |
| events like terrorist attacks, to stop providing intelligence | |
| agencies with their tools and their content. Does this affect | |
| the relationship with the CT or with the Bureau of Global | |
| Engagement at all, these kind of actions? | |
| Mr. Siberell. I am sorry, sir. The action is to restrict | |
| the sharing of information with---- | |
| Mr. Keating. Yes, with law enforcement---- | |
| Mr. Siberell [continuing]. Law enforcement---- | |
| Mr. Keating [continuing]. Agencies. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, I think we rely upon a cooperative | |
| relationship with the social media companies, and that is | |
| primarily the work domestically of the FBI, Department of | |
| Justice. A cooperative relationship is important because those | |
| companies, through their terms of service, are in the best | |
| position to identify content which can be helpful to those | |
| groups in radicalization and---- | |
| Mr. Keating. In terms of content, do you ever use | |
| testimonials from foreign fighters who have come back | |
| disillusioned? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes, indeed, indeed. The Global Engagement | |
| Center to which you just referred has launched several thematic | |
| campaigns to amplify messaging, including they ran a campaign | |
| of formers or defectors. Those who had gone off to Iraq and | |
| Syria had a disillusioning experience and then were putting | |
| their testimonials on social media as a way to push back and | |
| counter the narrative that ISIL has put out about its | |
| caliphates. | |
| Mr. Keating. And again on messaging, and it is too bad I | |
| can't--we are limited with time, but on messaging, are you | |
| using women and community-based projects? Well, Denmark just | |
| advanced a program where it is concentrating on a network of | |
| mothers to identify early signs. Are you engaged in that, and | |
| how successful has that been? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, there are two things I can point to. | |
| One is another one of the thematic campaigns that the GEC ran, | |
| which was centered around families and the impact upon families | |
| of those who have gone off to fight for these terrorist groups. | |
| And that was a very effective campaign, and it did focus in | |
| large part on mothers and the role in the family. | |
| The second is we have undertaken in a number of our | |
| Countering Violent Extremism programs to focus on women | |
| because, as you noted, women are in a unique position in most | |
| communities to identify the signs of radicalization or the | |
| infiltration of ideas and ideology of the terrorist groups. So | |
| they are a primary recipient of our Countering Violent | |
| Extremism programming effort. | |
| I will also say, however, that they are difficult to reach | |
| because this is at the community level, and we have to get our | |
| programming down to that level. And that is why we work with | |
| partners like USAID who have the connections in many cases | |
| through their development work to reach women and build | |
| networks of women, which they have a history also of doing in | |
| many parts of the world successfully. | |
| Mr. Keating. Just lastly, I will give you a chance--the GAO | |
| reported recently that there were staffing positions that | |
| weren't filled and recommended that they be filled. What is the | |
| status of that right now? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, we have 102 authorized full-time | |
| employment positions in the Bureau of Counterterrorism, 93 of | |
| which are filled. That leaves nine vacancies, and of those nine | |
| vacancies, eight are in the process of being filled or being | |
| advertised. So I think we are doing a pretty good job in | |
| addressing what the GAO had found in the last several years. | |
| The Bureau was established as a result of the 2011 QDDR. It | |
| really became a bureau in 2012. We were allotted a surge of new | |
| positions, and it did take some time for the Bureau to process | |
| through those, but we have done that and now we are in fairly | |
| good shape and are hiring. | |
| Mr. Keating. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Thank you, sir. | |
| Mr. Poe. I thank the gentleman from Massachusetts. | |
| The chair will recognize the gentleman from California, | |
| Colonel Cook, for his questioning. | |
| Mr. Cook. Thank you very much, sir. | |
| I wanted to ask you about Libya and the decisions that are | |
| going to be made about our arming certain individuals. And of | |
| course the fear is here we go again. Are we giving this to | |
| ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, whatever acronym you want to use or whatever | |
| you call them? And my fear with the State Department or any is | |
| that the right hand does not talk to the left hand in terms of | |
| coordinating this information so we make an informed choice and | |
| then we regret it afterwards. Can you briefly comment on that? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Thank you, Congressman. In Libya it is a very | |
| difficult, fluid situation, as you have noted, basically | |
| chaotic, and you have militias that are squaring off against | |
| Daesh principally in the area around Sirte in the center of the | |
| country. Those militias are not yet integrated into a Libyan | |
| national force, so sharing arms or assisting those groups on | |
| the ground would be a complicated and difficult endeavor. In | |
| some cases, however, there are those sub-state actors who are | |
| in the best position to confront ISIL, so navigating that | |
| landscape while ensuring that those arms would no transfer over | |
| to ISIL would be a significant task and a very difficult one. | |
| Mr. Cook. I want to shift gears a little bit. Maybe this is | |
| out of the realm a little bit, but I am from San Bernardino | |
| County. And obviously, we had a very difficult and horrific | |
| situation involving a terrorist there. And the coordination of | |
| Federal agencies with--and by the way, I was very, very happy | |
| with the way the FBI and the sheriff and the police chief, they | |
| all worked together. | |
| But in terms of--and then we had some problems with getting | |
| the data from the cell phone of one of the individuals, you | |
| know, Apple and you have heard all that drama. Now, if you have | |
| information of something that would actually affect us in the | |
| country here, how is that coordinated? | |
| And I know that is a very difficult question, but I get the | |
| feeling that we don't always have the best of coordination with | |
| Federal agencies because everybody works in their own | |
| functional area or functional silo and the word is not | |
| disseminated, and what happens is boom, something like this | |
| happens even though we might have had advanced warning. But if | |
| you could comment on that, I would appreciate it. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, sir, if you are speaking about | |
| coordination of the domestic level among the national security | |
| agencies or the law enforcement agencies, I may not be the best | |
| place to---- | |
| Mr. Cook. Well, I meant somebody that had ties to a | |
| terrorist country that---- | |
| Mr. Siberell. Yes. | |
| Mr. Cook [continuing]. But eventually, the terrorist | |
| incident actually happens. You know, we had this a few years | |
| ago when we were talking about the bombings in Boston and | |
| Chechnya and we had talked about this previously. But---- | |
| Mr. Siberell. I would say that in my own experience, the | |
| counterterrorism community and the U.S. Government is extremely | |
| well coordinated and integrated in so far as when there is an | |
| incident like the Boston Marathon bombers and the need to | |
| understand the linkages that might exist in a different | |
| country. | |
| Same thing with the San Bernardino attack. There is very | |
| close cooperation between the FBI, the principal investigative | |
| arm of the U.S. Government, and FBI agents who might be posted | |
| at our Embassies abroad or representatives of the intelligence | |
| agencies who can help to pull back the threads on any | |
| connections. And that is always one of the very first | |
| questions, of course, that arises in a domestic terrorism | |
| incident: Is there a connection to an international | |
| organization or is this directed by a group outside the United | |
| States? | |
| And particularly for these attacks like the one in San | |
| Bernardino, we see ISIL trying to inspire attacks, and those | |
| questions are always asked and then referred to the host | |
| country where we work with the intelligence agencies, the law | |
| enforcement agencies in those countries to develop those | |
| threats. | |
| Mr. Cook. Thank you. And I am jumping around a little bit, | |
| but I always go back to Turkey. And it is not even | |
| Thanksgiving. Anyway, bad joke. Really concerned about | |
| The PKK, the Erdogan, and it is like who is the terrorist | |
| and whether somebody is being falsely accused of being a | |
| terrorist. And obviously, this affects the politics of that | |
| particular country where you can use the counterterrorist | |
| threat to carry out a political agenda. Would you want to | |
| comment on that or is that too politically sensitive? Or is | |
| that something that would fall under counterterrorism? | |
| Mr. Siberell. Well, I can say, sir, in general terms on a | |
| global basis we are quite concerned about how governments | |
| undertake their own counterterrorism efforts domestically. And | |
| those governments that might use counterterrorism as a | |
| justification for acts that transgressed human rights or that | |
| are heavy-handed, let's say, in their security approach might | |
| actually drive the grievances that are leading to the terrorism | |
| in the first place. So that is a conversation we have globally | |
| with many, many partners around the world, and it is something | |
| that we watch very closely. | |
| Mr. Poe. I thank the gentleman. | |
| The committee may ask you to appear before the committee in | |
| a classified setting. Colonel Cook and the ranking member and | |
| others have raised some questions that we may want to get to | |
| the bottom of it to understand the situation in the classified | |
| setting where some of these questions can be answered so we get | |
| to the bottom line of what is taking place. So thank you for | |
| being here today. You have got a lot of work to do. You have a | |
| got a mess on your hands as far as all these bad guys all over | |
| the world, you know, causing mischief and taking the lives of | |
| innocents. So it is a tough assignment. | |
| So, anyway, there may be some other questions that we have | |
| for you that we will put in writing and we will send to you, in | |
| addition to the possible classified setting. | |
| So without objection, all the witnesses' prepared | |
| statements will be part of the record. Members will have 5 days | |
| to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for | |
| the record subject to the length limitation and the rules. | |
| And the subcommittee is adjourned. | |
| Mr. Siberell. Thank you. Thank you. | |
| [Whereupon, at 3:18 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] | |
| A P P E N D I X | |
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| Material Submitted for the Record | |
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