Marketing AI Institute CEO Paul Roetzer on Superpowered Manipulation
By: James Kotecki
Tags: Business, Ethics, Artificial Intelligence, Technology, Marketing

Audio + Transcript

Paul Roetzer:

Most marketers still don’t even know what it is. So if you don’t understand the superpower you’ll have, how could you possibly be planning for how to not use it for evil?

James Kotecki:

This is Machine Meets World, Infinia ML’s ongoing conversation about artificial intelligence. My guest today is the founder and CEO of the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Institute, Paul Roetzer. Thanks so much for being on Machine Meets World.

Paul Roetzer:

Absolutely, man. Looking forward to the conversation, I always enjoy talking with you.

James Kotecki:

So when people hear marketing and they hear artificial intelligence, what do people think that you’re up to?

Paul Roetzer:

Well, the average marketer, I think, believes it’s just too abstract to care. I mean, that’s our biggest challenge right now is making marketers care enough to take the next step, to ask the first question about what is it actually and how can I use it? So I think a lot of times they just ignore it because it seems abstract or sci-fi.

James Kotecki:

And the Institute is an educational endeavor at its core, right? It’s trying to convince marketers to use AI in different ways across the different types of marketing that they do?

Paul Roetzer:

Yeah. We see our mission as making AI approachable and actionable. So it’s, we’re marketers trying to make sense of AI and make it make sense to other marketers. We’re not trying to talk to the machine learning engineers or the data scientists. We’re trying to make the average marketer be able to understand these things and apply it immediately to their career and to their business.

James Kotecki:

And what’s your scope? What’s your definition of AI?

Paul Roetzer:

The best definition I’ve seen is Demis Hassabis, who’s the co-founder and CEO of DeepMind, calls AI the science of making machines smart. And I just have always gravitated to that definition because I think it really simplifies it, meaning, machines know nothing. The software, the hardware we use to do our jobs, don’t know anything natively, they’re programmed to do these things. There’s a future for marketing where humans don’t have to write all the rules. That the machines will actually get smarter and that there’s a science behind making marketing smarter. And that’s what we think about marketing AI as.

James Kotecki:

What marketing technologies are you excited about to come to light in 2021?

Paul Roetzer:

We look at three main applications of AI: language, vision, and prediction. What you’re trying to do with AI is give machines human-like abilities — of sight, of hearing, of language generation. And so language in particular has just a massive potential within marketing. Think about all the places that you generate language, generate documents that summarize information, create documents from scratch, write emails, like it’s just never ending. And I think you’re going to see lots and lots of companies built in the space that focus explicitly on applications of language generation and understanding.

James Kotecki:

I looked at the history of the Institute, and it traces back about five years ago…

Paul Roetzer:

Mmm-hmm.

James Kotecki:

…to when you were thinking about how to automate the writing of blog posts. And five years ago, that wasn’t really possible, but now, this year, GPT-3 from OpenAI is a technology that looks like we’re either very close or already there to the point where a machine can convincingly write, from almost scratch, narratives, articles, blog posts, et cetera. What do you think of that? And what do you think is next if that kind of initial dream has maybe been achieved?

Paul Roetzer:

So there have definitely been major advances in the last even 18 months. So first we had GPT-2 was the big one that hit the market. I think it was like February of ’19 maybe it was when that surfaced. And then just this year we had GPT-3, which really took it to the next level of this ability to create free-form text from an idea or a topic or a source. And it really is moving very, very quickly. And I think in 2021, 2022, you’re going to start seeing lots and lots of applications of language generation from models like GPT-3, where the average content marketer or email marketer will be using AI-assisted language generation.

James Kotecki:

People always say when technology like this comes up, “There’s still going to be a place for human creativity. Don’t worry. We still need humans in the mix.” At what point do marketers look at this and start getting scared and saying, “You keep saying that, but the machines keep getting more and more creative.”

Paul Roetzer:

I am a big believer that the net positive of AI will be more jobs and it will create new opportunities for writers and for marketers. But I’m realistic that things I thought 24 months ago a machine couldn’t do, it’s doing now. And that’s part of why I think it’s so critical that marketers and writers are paying attention because the space is changing very quickly. The tools that you can use to do your job are changing very quickly. It’s going to close some doors. There are going to be some roles or some tasks that writers, marketers do today that they won’t need to do. But it’s also going to open new ones. And I think it’s the people who are at the forefront of this who have a confidence and a competency around AI that are going to be the ones that find the new opportunities and career paths — may even be the ones that build the new tools, the application of it for the specific thing they do.

James Kotecki:

Do you think marketers, at least marketers who do get it, have an obligation, not just to use AI effectively and ethically, but to use their skills to shape the public perception of AI?

Paul Roetzer:

That’s what I always tell people. It’s like, think about it. Like, why does Google have Google AI? Why does Microsoft advertise Microsoft AI? They’re all trying to get the average consumer to not be afraid of this idea, this technology because it is so interwoven in every experience they have as consumers now. They don’t realize it though. These big tech companies need consumers to be conditioned to accept AI. And I think in the software world for marketing, you’re going to see a similar movement where we need the users of the software to understand how to use it with their consumers, but also how to embrace what it makes possible within their jobs.

James Kotecki:

Are there ethical guidelines or any kind of ethical consensus out there for how marketers need to be approaching some of this stuff? I mean, if you took ethics out of it, you could use this technology in ways that were at best amoral and at worst unethical. So what are some guidelines that are actually shaping people’s decision-making here?

Paul Roetzer:

There aren’t any universal standards that we’re aware of. There is a big movement around this idea of AI for good, at a larger level. So you are seeing organizations created who are trying to integrate ethics and remove bias from AI at a larger application in society and in business. Specific to marketing though, it’s really at an individual corporation level. So are companies developing their own ethics guidelines for how they’re going to use data and how they’re going to use the power that AI gives them to reach and influence consumers? And that part’s not moving fast enough. There’s not enough conversation around that because again, most marketers still don’t even know what it is. So if you don’t understand the superpower you’ll have, how could you possibly be planning for how to not use it for evil? And so there’s these steps we’re trying real hard to move the industry through so we can get to the other side of how do we do good with this power that we’re all going to have.

James Kotecki:

When you look at the totality of AI in marketing, from your perch here, do you feel like you are fighting against trends that are taking things in the wrong direction? Do you feel overall optimistic about the state of things?

Paul Roetzer:

I feel optimistic, but I do worry a lot about where it could go wrong. And I think if you look at politics, I’m not going to bring in any specific politics into this, but if you look at the political realm, this isn’t new stuff. They’ve been trying to manipulate behavior on every side of it, in every country. It’s all about trying to manipulate people’s views and behaviors. And this is very dangerous stuff to give people like that whose job is to manipulate behaviors. And so if you’re a marketer and you’re so focused on revenue or profits or goals over the other uses of it, you’re going to have the ability to manipulate people in ways you did not before. And I do worry greatly that people will use these tools to take shortcuts, to hack things together, and to affect people in ways that isn’t in the best interest of society.

James Kotecki:

I’m imagining a bumper sticker for a marketer that says, “You say manipulate human behavior like it’s a bad thing.” Right?

Paul Roetzer:

I could see that, yeah.

James Kotecki:

Because the context, even the word “manipulate” has a negative connotation, but it is, if you just look at its neutral meaning, exactly what marketing is trying to accomplish. As we wrap up here, what are your hopes for marketing in 2021 when it comes to AI?

Paul Roetzer:

I just want marketers to be curious. To understand that there is a chance to create a competitive advantage for themselves and for their companies. And to do that, you just need to know that AI creates smarter solutions, that if you’re going to do email or content marketing or advertising, don’t just rely on the all-human all the time way you’ve previously done it. There are tools that are figuring things out for you that are making you a better marketer by surfacing insights, making recommendations of actions, assessing creative. There’s lots and lots of ways you can use AI. And I just think if people take the step to find a few to try in the coming twelve months, they’ll realize that there’s this whole other world of marketing technology out there that can make them better at their job.

James Kotecki:

Well, thanks for illuminating us on that. Paul Roetzer, founder and CEO of the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Institute. Thank you for being on Machine Meets World.

Paul Roetzer:

Absolutely, man. Enjoyed it.

James Kotecki:

And thank you so much for watching and/or listening, please like share, subscribe. You know, give the algorithms what they want. You can also email us at mmw@infiniaml.com. I’m James Kotecki And that is what happens when Machine Meets World.