Okay, so even though I see little evidence that you actually read what I wrote, I’ll still respond…
By: Matthew John
Tags: Political Movement, Politics, Bernie Sanders, Socialism

Okay, so even though I see little evidence that you actually read what I wrote, I’ll still respond, just for fun. (The whole issue was whether or not you support mass murder. If you do, by the way, you’re nowhere near “progressive.”) This will be sort of stream of consciousness, since I’m pretty busy today.

“Every President from George Washington to now (especially with Trump) has death and destruction on their watch. Every President works with hundreds of people, both in their cabinet and in around the world, and makes decisions that in hindsight are horrific.”

Yes — this is an important point, although I seem to come to a different conclusion than you. As Noam Chomsky has observed, all post-WWII American presidents are guilty of serious war crimes and could have been executed under the standards of the Nuremberg Trials. If you go back further, all additional presidents were complicit in grave crimes against humanity, including genocide, slavery, Jim Crow apartheid, eugenics, internment camps, etc. The American presidency — historically and conceptually — is certainly nothing to be proud of. (To clarify, I personally reject nationalism, American Exceptionalism, colonialism, etc.)

“I consider myself a progressive and vote for progressive causes, and often put money behind them. That said, I think that this kind of black and white thinking is exactly what helped us lose the election in 2016 and will again. Until we can understand WHY people would vote for a Donald Trump or a Mitch McConnel or a Lindsey Graham, and respond to their needs, we cannot win”

First of all, again, if you can’t even condemn mass murder, you’re not “progressive.” Secondly, there must be some confusion judging by your use of the word “us.” Hillary Clinton — who is the antithesis of everything even remotely progressive — lost the election. She is and was one of the most despised American politicians in recent memory. So, based on this, you might guess that I do not feel as though her candidacy represented my interests, and therefore I shouldn’t be included in the aforementioned “us.” (By the way, it’s also worth mentioning, since it is relevant to the original topic, that one of the reasons Clinton lost was due to her support for the invasion of Iraq, and her promotion of American military aggression more broadly.)

“The idea that we shouldn’t talk to or even give someone who doesn’t think like us the time of day is ludicrous.”

I agree, and my article doesn’t even imply that I would advocate this.

“They are single issue voters just like many progressives are single issue voters. They listen to the echo chamber that is Trump and believe it, just like progressives listen to the echo chamber that is Sanders and believe it.”

I’ve considered myself progressive for about 18 years now, and I’ve never heard of a progressive being a single-issue voter. What’s an example of a specific issue? War is maybe the only one that comes to mind as a possiblity…

Your echo chamber theory here I think is approximately the opposite of reality. Trump has that cult of personality, but Bernie (whose campaign slogan is “Not Me, Us”) relies on a massive, diverse, working-class movement that supports his candidacy entirely due to his specific policy proposals. I don’t know if you’re watching too much MSNBC or what, but this stuff is completely unfounded.

“However, he is not perfect. He has a reputation for not working with anyone else. He has a reputation for never compromising. He has the same reputation as all politicians for stretching the truth to make his point. Yes, I know his base loves that he doesn’t compromise, but that also means the chance of getting his ideas passed is nil.”

First of all, no one is claiming Bernie is perfect. I’ve criticized him on several issues, including his imperialistic rhetoric regarding various Latin American movements. In terms of his reputation in Congress, once again, it’s the exact opposite of what you wrote; he has consistently worked with others (including Republicans) to pass meaningful legislation, especially amendments that benefit average Americans. (Here are some of his accomplishments.)

“I will vote for whoever the democratic nominee is because that person is better than Trump. Will you do the same? Or will you use your litmus test to make sure you don’t vote for anyone but Bernie and let Trump win again to make your point that everyone else isn’t good enough?”

Bloomberg is actually worse than Trump (listen to the recent episode of Intercepted). Biden is about the same. Everyone other than Bernie is center-right on the political spectrum. I completely reject the dogma that, just because someone decides to put a “D” next to their name, they’re somehow morally superior to members of the other corporate party.

Anyway, I’m a communist and Bernie is my compromise. He’s the only candidate that even vaguely represents my interests, which revolve around having a decent standard of living and not struggling to survive. If the material conditions in this country are a non-issue to you, you must be quite privileged. I guess that’s a long way of saying that if Bernie isn’t the Democratic nominee, I will vote 3rd party (likely PSL) and continue to get more involved in local political organizations (I’m currently a member of two). If you are really worried about people like me “ruining it” by not voting for the Democratic nominee and “getting Trump re-elected”, I guess you should probably try to make sure Bernie is the nominee. In short, most Democratic and Republican candidates (and administrations, for that matter) are approximately the same to me.

More here:

(Also, if you browse my other articles from the past, you’ll probably see how I feel about neoliberalism, the Democratic Party, and the two-party system more broadly.)

“I will also continue to talk to people who do not think like me and try to understand what their issues are so that I can address them by calmly, politely, and lovingly giving them other options for achieving their goals…”

This is excellent. I’m currently volunteering with the Bernie campaign and this basically our overarching strategy.

“Ellen is a good person…”

Agree to disagree.

“If you feel comfortable demonizing her for sitting next to former President Bush, I shiver to think what you do to regular people on the right who don’t have the ability to talk back or choose not to do so.”

Again, it would have helped if you had actually read the article. “Regular people on the right” haven’t slaughtered a million people and been complicit in other crimes against humanity, such as torture and assassination, as Bush and many other American political “leaders” have. If it’s really so difficult for you to condemn these sadistic acts, how can you have a moral framework to criticize someone like Trump, who will probably never kill half as many people as Bush has?

“I agree with Ellen that we need to listen to the other side.”

I reject this false dichotomy. There are dozens of “sides.” Almost none of them are represented in popular discourse.

“I agree that we need to be kind.”

Not to war criminals.

“If we can’t do that, then we will all lose and devolve into warring tribes without any desire to work together — only a desire to be the victor.”

I guess this is redundant based on the above (as well as the other stuff I’ve written), but we actually do need standards. For instance, whether it’s Clinton or Bush, there’s no room for war criminals. And whether it’s Biden, Bloomberg, or Trump, there’s no room for racists.

Beyond that, as a Marxist, I see politics through the dialectical lens of class struggle. This is why I agreed with you the few times that I did — on the issue of finding common ground with average Americans who may actually realize they should join a grassroots movement to empower workers in order to reverse the massive damage the ruling class has caused during the past four decades.

No politician, not even Bernie, can save us. We have to come together and do this ourselves. I know which side I’m on. Do you?

Ugh, I wish I had the time to include more information (links, etc.) in this response, but I do have lots of hyperlinks in my actual articles, so…