Getting to Know All About You: Interviewing and Hiring, Part Two
By: Joshua Leto
Tags: Interviewing, Entrepreneurship, Leadership Development, Hiring, Retail

Getting to Know All About You: Interviewing and Hiring, Part Two

Identify who you want to hire before you look at applicants.

Find Part One here.

I decided to write this from the perspective of a specific business. For five years, twenty years ago, I ran a comic book shop (owned by my father), and if I was going to open a retail establishment today (which I am not), this would be my first choice for what I would sell. My imaginary business is called Superior Comics.

The interview philosophies from Part One are going to be the lens through which I present the behaviors I’m offering in this series. You can, and should, define your principles, but until you define your own, these are a great place to start.

Hiring Principle #2: Know what kind of employee you want the process to identify.

So how does one actually find the kind of employee they really want to hire? First, you have to be clear about what you are looking for. For example, if you say that you want someone to be nice, you will look for evidence of their kindness. You will ask questions, especially follow-up questions that bring out that characteristic, or lack thereof. What follows is a step-by-step examination of how I take action to achieve my goals in an interview.

By design, my interview process is a three-part interview. Part one is the decision to interview someone in the first place, which usually comes with some kind of introduction, even if all you have is their resume or application. This article is part two. Part three is the business conversation that comes only when I intend to hire someone. I will include that conversation in the penultimate chapter of this series.

Photo by rawpixel on Unsplash

Welcome

I always have an introductory statement that I make at the beginning of each interview. My goal is to set the tone, and to let a savvy person know how to be successful in the interview process, even if they don’t get the job.

My biggest goal, in the first few minutes, is to make them comfortable enough to talk openly and honestly. I definitely try to make them laugh, and usually with a self-deprecating joke. The advantage of being self-deprecating is that I specifically want to give the impression that I am fallible. I want them to know that I am not perfect, which I hope indicates that they need not be perfect in the interview. I don’t want to hire someone who seems perfect, because if they do, I know that I don’t know them well enough yet. Making them comfortable is critical in getting people to show you who they are. We all perform, or play a role, when getting to know someone.

I want to make sure that the interview process is a great experience for them for a few reasons. I want them to remain a customer if they are one. I want them to consider being a customer if they aren’t. I want them to tell a positive story if they are ever asked about their interview experience; you never know where and when they will tell that story.

My introductory statement goes something like this:

“Thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me. I will have many questions for you, and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have as well. How much time do you have? [I want to leave the possibility of a long conversation, or know at the outset that I am limited.] At the end of this conversation, my goal is that you know more about our company and the job you are applying for, and that I will know enough about you to determine whether we should continue our conversation. My memory is terrible, so I will be taking notes [I always have a clipboard or notepad.] while we talk; please don’t feel like I am not paying attention. Before I dig into my questions, do you have any questions for me?”

By the way, their questions are one of the most important pieces of information they will offer you. Do they have thoughtful questions? Have they done even basic research about you and what you want? Are they curious about something they couldn’t research? Their questions will tell you what they really care about.

Some characteristics that I identify that I am confident every person who ever hires any other person could benefit from considering: Are they strong in character? Are they nice? Are they smart? I can’t imagine that anyone wants anyone else who doesn’t fit those characteristics. But we often hire people who aren’t these, because they offer some other characteristic that we think is worth more. Maybe they have an incredible skill for selling. Maybe they are a great programmer. Maybe they have an encyclopedic knowledge of what I sell. If they aren’t also smart, nice, and strong, there will be a problem, and sooner, rather than later.

photo © 2013 Joshua Leto

The Interview

For my store, I want someone who can switch quickly from task to task and remain organized. “Tell me about a time you felt overwhelmed.” “Have you ever been put in a position where you weren’t given all the tools you needed to succeed?”

I want someone who understands the business I am in. “Tell me what you know about what we do here at Superior Comics?” “Tell me what you think our biggest challenge is?”

I want someone who is passionate about what we sell. “Who are some of your favorite writers and artists?” “Do you collect anything?”

I want someone who can talk to anyone at any time. I watch how they interact when they first come in to the store. If you can, have others engage with them about any random thing to see how the conversation goes. I am looking for someone who is comfortable with as many people as possible regardless of the situation, so I try to manufacture it where I can. The store employees should also be manufacturing conversations, as their input is invaluable on all hiring decisions. A team will work better together when everyone can see how their teammates contribute to the overall strength. (I will dig deeper into this in Part Three.)

I want someone who is strong of character. “What would you say to someone who asked you what you thought of a book that we had on sale that you didn’t personally enjoy?” “Who was you favorite boss? (Or teacher, if they are younger.)” These questions shouldn’t have clearly correct answers. They are meant to define the character of the interviewee and no one has a right or wrong character. Character is who we are.

I want someone who is adaptable. “I need a new joke for my 5th grader. Do you know any good ones?” This will show me how they identify appropriate content and whether they have a sense of humor, which tends to favor intelligence. “What was your favorite subject in school?” Even if they didn’t like school, they probably connected with something, and they will tell you how to continue the conversation with follow-ups.

“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” — Red Adair

Interlude

I gave this its own heading because I wanted to point out that little breaks are an important step in the interview process for me. I want to check in with the person every so often to encourage them to ask questions, so I ask them formally every so often, “Did you think of anything else you want to ask me?” I will also break up the conversation by literally giving them space (Principle #5), either figuratively or literally. I like to do interviews in coffeeshops or casual restaurants so that I can offer something to drink, so a good long conversation may require a bathroom break, giving us each literal space. Or I may give some figurative space to excuse myself from talking while I take some notes or look over the questions and topics I want to cover. By the way, offering to buy them a drink is also a literal way to tell them that you are investing time and money into the conversation. A good interview will spend an hour or two with me in total, so “paying” them with a $3 soda or $5 coffee is not unreasonable.

I want someone who is committed. “What are your hobbies? What do you like to do if you have a whole day without commitments?”

I want someone who is smart. “Smart” is always a loaded term. There are many, many, many, different kinds of smart. You will have your own definition of what “smart” is and you should be able to articulate it. For me, smart has a few key characteristics, and I try to find questions to draw it out.

Self-aware. Can the person identify their own areas of strengths and weaknesses? “Have you ever received a performance review? In that review, what was something that your supervisor told you were great at, but they overestimated your skill? In that position, what was something you were great at, but they underestimated your skill?” “What is your greatest strength, and how does it hold you back?” Good judgment. Do they show forethought and avoid rushing important decisions? “What was the best decision you made in the last year? And what was the worst?” “Can you think of a decision that you rushed into? Can you think of one you took too long to make?” By the way, I don’t believe in “common sense.” It is a phrase that is bandied about, but I don’t believe any of us learn in a vacuum. I wasn’t born knowing to say, “Thank you,” or “please.” I wasn’t born knowing how to add two and two. I wasn’t born knowing how to ride a bike. I was taught all of these things. When we say, “common sense,” we usually mean something that we think everyone should have learned. For me, it just means having good judgment. Ability to learn. What examples can they provide of times that they took charge of their own development. “Have you ever had a job where you felt the training was lacking? How did you get the information you needed?” “Who was your favorite teacher in school? Why?” Adjusting to new information. One of the tenets of being smart is my willingness to admit that I am often stupid. Changing one’s mind when presented with new information is a great way to increase your knowledge and wisdom. “Tell me about something you once believed that you no longer believe.” “What is an aspect of comic books that you know you need to learn more about?” They have emotional intelligence. Empathy is difficult to measure, and can be difficult to, well, empathize. I find that the best way to understand how people feel about it is to put them in the role of the person who needs the empathy. “Tell me about a terrible experience you’ve had as a customer? How could it have been avoided?” “Tell me about the worst boss, or teacher, you’ve ever had? What did they not understand?” Their response will tell you what they feel it means to be empathetic. They recognize what makes them unique. Intelligent people can not only see their strengths, but talk about them. “What is something that all your friends know you are the best at?” Sense of humor. One of the things I love about the comic book industry is that in large part it is filled with misfits and oddballs (in the best way). It is easy to see this as a downside if you can’t have a sense of humor about yourself and the world around you. There aren’t really questions I use to dig into this (although I mentioned one above in Adaptability), but I look for opportunities to genially laugh with the people I’m interviewing and see if they join me.

And there’s more…

Ultimately we are each limited from seeing the intelligence of others based on our own intelligence. The point is to listen to what people are saying to confirm that it is consistent and thoughtful.

Last, and most importantly, I want someone who is nice.

“Nice” is a very vague description, but I’d often heard it as: “Hire for attitude, train the rest.” Most thoughtful hiring managers have some version of this in their philosophy. The point is that skills can be learned on the job, or more specifically, in the work force. Attitudes and character are mostly defined before adulthood. The things I am most proud of (and most ashamed of) in my values were mostly defined by the time I was thirteen. I’ve gotten better at some, but the things I have been able to change about myself in adulthood continue to be daily struggles.

A positive attitude is incredibly valuable in a work environment. So many small challenges can be overcome with this persistence, and a positive attitude is key to maintaining persistence.

So much of the positivity and “niceness” will be gleaned throughout the conversation. It starts when they walk in the door for the first time, and continues after the interview officially ends. How do they treat the people who are not interviewing them, including other employees, or people in the coffeeshop where the interview is happening? I had a boss who used to drop a pencil or pen when handing out applications to see if the applicant would pick it up before they did. Did they hold a door for anyone? Did they smile at anyone walking by? Did they acknowledge others in a crowded space? If you are looking, people will tell you who they are.

The view of a retailer at a comic book convention / photo ©2013 Joshua Leto

Wrap It Up

I want the conversation to end in a positive manner, and I want to let them know what the next step will be. When I put myself into the shoes of the interviewee, I know the toughest part for them is the next part: waiting to hear back. I give them a definite timeline for my follow-up call, and encourage them to call me if they don’t hear back by that date.

As soon as the conversation is over and you have thanked them for their time, make notes on the conversation. I always have a formal sheet that allows me to review whether I covered all the topics I wanted to cover, and I want to get my thoughts down as quickly as possible.

I said in Part One, “I have never once felt that I spent too much time interviewing a candidate.” You might be able to tell with the list of questions and the picture I painted here, that I am not afraid to put a lot of thought and take a lot of time into an interview. If this seems overwhelming, I will adapt the Lee Adair quote seen above: “If you think spending a lot of time interviewing someone is silly, try rushing it.” I encourage you to be as thoughtful as possible when making decisions on how to invest in the future of your company.

Part Three digs into the next philosophies of hiring, specifically biases and inclusion.

If you have any thoughts I’d love to hear them. Respond below or message me on twitter, or at letoind.com

Edit notes: This article was edited after initial publication for readability and clarity, and sometimes when I see something that’s just silly.