The Kickstart Garage #3— Sean Bryan
Tags: Local Business, Barbershop, Cut And Sew, Ireland, Brand Strategy

THE KICKSTART GARAGE — Sean Bryan— #3 — Transcript

Introduction:

Sam (0:15):

Welcome to The Kickstart Garage, I’m your host Sam John Byrne & I’m accompanied by my co-host Gavin Quigley.

On today’s show, we’re joined by local esteemed barber and entrepreneur, Sean Bryan who is the founder of Cut & Sew. Since starting Sean now manages three outlets, a clothing brand & runs training courses for aspiring barbers & entrepreneurs. Without further adieu, we’ll get right into it.

Welcome to The Kickstart Garage Sean, it’s great to have you on.

Sean (0:36):

Hey lads, thanks so much, it’s my pleasure to be asked to be on, I’m looking forward to this chat.

Sam (0:42):

Great, so from reading other interviews, and listening to interviews with yourself, you seem to be the poster child of this a born-to-be hustler. Starting from one chair in the basement of a pop-up shop to now owning three fully kitted-out stores. Can you share with our audience where and when your entrepreneurial journey began?

Sean (0:58):

Yeah so for anyone who knows about my story previously or who’s in our industry, it’s kind of like a broken record, but it is a little bit of a “rags to riches”. I kind of did mountains of jobs, I left school early at 16 and I wanted to get into an apprenticeship. I didn’t really enjoy the education platform. I found getting told what to do from a very young age, very hard to do. I just couldn’t grasp being told what to do.

So, that’s why when I went to become a carpenter, I realised being an apprentice is worse than being a student in school. So I jumped from loads of jobs, not knowing what I wanted to do. I loved Grand Designs from a very young age and shows on how to build and refurbishment shows, and I always thought that the builders or the foremen or the bosses of building sites seemed to take less “stick”, they didn’t have as many rules or people above them as I did in all of the other jobs.

So I started in a hairdressers at the bottom, as an apprentice hairdresser and the reason I think I loved it even though I had no intentions of becoming a hairdresser, was the human factor, the working with people, you know? Like when I was an apprentice carpenter, I found myself working on cold building sites or in attics and there was no gratification. There was no “well done” or taps on the back. You wouldn’t even see the people you were working for.

So I know from being about 18 to 21 in this period of losing an apprenticeship and starting another apprenticeship in a totally different industry that my skill set was probably my personality. I didn’t know it as well as I do now, but I really felt that when I was working with people and doing small tasks in hairdressing you kind of got rewarded with compliments or like “well done” and I think I just flourished with what I liked doing and that was making people feel good and, you know, it was instant gratification. So if you shampooed somebody’s hair, which sounds small and silly now, they liked it and they would tip you like a Euro or two.

Then when you got onto the further part of that education, you would cut somebody’s hair or do their colour and they would tip you more and be even more happy and you grew a relationship with them. So I think I knew then I was pretty good at hairdressing, but I wasn’t a superstar, and I didn’t want to be. But then as I got into that industry, I started to get more requests from gents and I gelled more with gents. Even though I’m not like a butch masculine bloke, likeI’m not into football or any of that craic, I have five younger brothers so I just preferred doing the gents side of things.

I think around the time I set up was post-Celtic Tiger so there was a lot of opportunities and spaces, shops within shops, and one of my friends, Josh Gordon set up a pop-up shop in a record shop in town and he was younger than me and he did really well and I could see that. We both knew the landlord and I was like “If he can do a pop-up shop, instead of me doing nixers in my kitchen where it’s bad lighting and my Mam was going crazy with my getting hair all over the place and having loads of random guys coming in for haircuts, I asked the landlord could I cut hair in the basement of his shop.

He was happy for me to give him just 20% of what I took, and that was probably the start of Cut & Sew officially and it’s how many years? Eight years now, so 2013/ the end of 2012, and I didn’t think of myself as a business owner, entrepreneur or anything like that but that’s where the start of it was you know?

Gavin (5:00):

Yeah, and I think that’s so important in any role I suppose, the whole idea of feeling valued and feeling appreciated. I think no matter what job or industry you get into, you need to find somewhere where you are valued.

Sean do you want to talk to us about that transition from Toni & Guy to running your own pop up shop in Temple Bar. Just in terms of how it felt transitioning from employee to self-employed, what was that experience like?

Sean (5:30):

Well I’m fortunate enough to be asked to do talks in Trinity and IADT and I felt an imposter of sorts. Like, why would all these guys that are fortunate enough to go to college have an interest in my story? And a couple of business students emailed me asking like can I write a thesis or do my story on corporate vs independant, and I didn’t really understand why they would want to come to me.

I didn’t have a business plan or a business model. When I did it, you know, I don’t come from nothing, I come from a lot, but financially, my Mum and Dad are very hardworking, my Mum worked for years in full-time jobs and then as a carer and then she became a full-time Mum with six kids, so she had her hands tied. My Mam has actually always worked and had her kids, and then my Dad is an amazing chef and he’s a soldier. So my Dad always had two or three jobs, he was like a bouncer Friday, Saturday night and then worked in the army five days a week cooking, and then he would have to uphold working part-time in restaurants as well.

It’s instilled in me, like my Mam and Dad are grafters.

The transition, like I lived at home, I always gave up a bit of rent, I didn’t really have any fear because I was told I can kind of do anything I want. So, when people go about setting up a company now, or going from an employee to an employer, it’s not as scary as you think it is. I think the more you think about it, the worse it is you know>

I think it’s like anything, you know, fear is the feeling of the unknown. I had nothing to lose and it was so primal, if that’s the right word to use. At the start, I was like “Sure my friend did a pop-up shop, he’s younger than me, he lives at home the same way I live at home”, and so I asked the landlord if there was any chance I could set up a barber shop on a Saturday.

Little to be told, I don’t think I’ve actually ever said this on any podcast but when I set up, I was still a hairdresser. I just changed to working on a Saturday. So I was doing Monday to Friday in a hair salon, and on my days off on the Saturday, I would go into town and work all day Saturday at this pop-up shop. That was the risk, you know, it was great the first week, then I think there were two the second week and it was so up and down that I was like “Is this gonna work, like what’s going on?”

I think I didn’t really know what the next week was going to hold. So, it’s not that inspirational, I think it was the labour of love. I just loved the feeling of having my own little space and it’s very powerful when you get your first few quid in the till, you know, it was pretty amazing.

Then, over the course of the next couple of months is the awkward period. I think Rob Lipsett, who I follow, has got a very interesting story, he transitioned from when your side hustle brings you in more money than your main job or hustle, that’s when you have to kind of take a leap of faith.

So he used to deliver food, he was with a meal prep company and worked in a gym and was making enough money from his own online programs and apparel so that he could transition into being his own boss as opposed to being an employee. So I kind of had the same moment when after a couple of months it was up and down, I said “Right, I can either go at this full-tilt and take a risk or I can just stay working like a madman for someone else and not really get much more reward”. So it was a scary time.

Again, I was living at home, I don’t have any kids, so the risk was quite low. But it was tough going in and making that decision as every business owner will find. There’s a lot of dark days and it’s an unknown future, the thoughts that go on when you do it. So that’s the transition. It was tough, but I had a lot of support. Not financially, like I worked my backside off at the start but it is a weird period when you transition from an employee to self-employed you know?

Gavin (9:48):

Yeah, and you’ve kind of mentioned this in your answer, and Rob Lipsett is somebody who I have followed since the very very start since he was living in his parents house or something and he had his cat and everything, and it’s such a great story. I think that story, and your story, show that you don’t need everything to be perfect to start, you just need to start.

You need to figure out, like you said, whatever comes primal to you, whatever comes most naturally to you, just go for it. And it can start off as a side hustle like you say, but then when you get that proof of concept, and you get that first few quid in the till, you can really just start putting more of your energy into it.

And I wanted to ask you Sean, some people, they just like to plan for the future, they like having as many things laid out as possible. Others just like to see how things come, did you ever see yourself at the beginning, one day running your own business or did all this really all just come about as a result of the actions you took?

Sean (10:49):

This is a very valid point. When I opened up, I built the shop and I might even find the picture. I think I’ve posted it numerous times on the story but not on the main Cut & Sew page, I built a one-station shop. Even in the basement of the record shop, the space was quite small but I could have put in four chairs. So when I see the young guys doing it now, it’s a lot different, I think.

I don’t know if I’m allowed to swear or not on this, are we able to swear?

Sam (11:26):

Go for it. Drop it!

Sean (11:28):

I like it lads, ok, we’re over 18. Hopefully, Spotify won’t *beep* us out of it, but I don’t want to sound wankey but back then I was so unaccepted in the industry because I was a hairdresser, all of the barbershops then, none of them had social media, like none of them. None of them did appointments, bar maybe one I think. And because I came from hairdressing, the only reason I did appointments was because that’s how I was trained in hairdressing.

It was pretty mad to do that but I don’t know, I’m going off the point here again, sorry, what was the question?

Gavin (12:06):

No don’t worry you’re grand, I’ll just go back to it so it was: Did you plan much of it or did it all just come about has things progressed?

Sean (12:14):

Sorry, yeah, so no I didn’t plan it. I purposely built the shop to just have one chair, for me, because I had never had staff, it wasn’t my intention to have staff. The first picture that I did post was one chair which was a spare kitchen chair my Mum had and it was basically one mirror, one chair, and all of the staff gave me grief because any interviews or the few times I’ve been in the paper, people would be like, “From one chair and one mirror to this”.

I purposely built it as a one-man show, so I didn’t plan it to be bigger than what it was. When I got to the stage of being so busy that I could cover more wage than I’d ever earned before, or that I’d ever been paid, I was so motivated, you know it’s funny, it’s not a lightbulb moment as such, it’s like “Wow, man”. When somebody makes an effort, like we were in a basement with a dingy light, now a cool record shop but it was in Temple Bar down a street. There was no signage outside like I didn’t have any money for a sandwich board, for cool neon signs.

There was no social media, it was word-of-mouth. Like there was Bebo and I think Facebook was around eight years ago, obviously, but there was nothing like you see now. There was no Instagram, I literally remember I had just joined Instagram a few months after opening. It was crazy, I remember from some of the hairdressers, it was like text, and I bought a physical diary diary and I had my phone number on it and it was just word of mouth at the start lads, it was just as I said, it was so primal that when I think what happened next, which we’ll go into later, it was that magical moment, you know?

But yeah, that’s how it was, I built a one chair, one mirror, just for me, and it wasn’t intended to be any bigger than what it was.

Sam (14:18):

Yeah. Just to kind of follow up on that. So, like, like many entrepreneurs kind of face this problem of analysis paralysis from the get go. You seem to be more so just taking action and kind of planning your next move, you know, just kind of gradually progressing, almost like let’s see where this takes me kind of attitude. Do you feel like if you could go back, you’d kind of take more of a planning approach or you just keep plowing ahead as you did?

Sean (14:41):

So my dad always says; “Geez, you’re some man, how do you keep on opening shops or why are you, like, doing clothes or you know”. It’s I think because I came from, well I didn’t come from nothing. And I basically started with one chair, one mirror and if all the success got taken away, I would be just as content as being like Sean the Barber, making good money as I was as Mr. Cut and Sew. So which I’ve really embarrassed embarrassingly named myself on Tinder once or twice before but don’t worry about that.

I’ve just finished a book called Ego is the Enemy so I definitely had a bit of an ego when the success kicked off, which is weird because one of the guys that tattoos me, he’s like the thing that people seem to like me is I’m very honest, open and down to earth. But there was definitely a stage where I got an ego. And going forward, as you said, and I have to plan a bit a bit further ahead, because it’s not only like my name, it’s that all of the staff and all of the shops who I do think about and I look at myself more now as a kind of a player coach, you know, like I don’t even know who, again because I’m not really into football anymore. I don’t know who a player coach, but I still work five days a week cutting on the floor and I run and manage all of the shops and all of the social medias and the education in the Academy. So there’s a lot more planning. And as we spoke about previous to this and the moleskin and a notepad and pen is part of my daily ritual, which is the best investment I think anyone can and should make as a notepad and pen, you know?

Sam (16:27):

Yeah, absolutely. I’m sure Gav agreed with you big time there. So just how different is your life now, having achieved success and the pursuit of starting your own chain of barbershops like what’s your day to day like now in comparison to when you first started?

Sean (16:40):

My day today is very different I would say. I think people assume if you own a shop or are a business owner, I think people think of you like you’re minted or loaded. And I’m rich in other ways. Not financially, like I don’t own a Rolex, I don’t own a Range Rover. And my lifestyle is kind of rich in the sense of I’m very lucky to have a lovely apartment. That’s of my choice. I can holiday when I want and I can work however many days I want. Like if I didn’t have to work and I could probably not cut hair at this stage, which is funny because I’m only 33.

I’m at the start of my business career, I’m only eight years open, you know, and I think I saw that an apprenticeship is only four years, so I’m only after doing two apprenticeships, and I’m after making and more. It’s like I don’t know the famous quote, I wish I knew it but I’m after making probably more mistakes than I have successes. And I think that’s part of it. You know, it’s like the John Kavanagh book, you know, you don’t win or lose, you win or learn. And all of the biggest mistakes I’ve made have actually put me in the right direction for doing it better or doing something, you know, the next big thing.

And it’s I think, you know, learning is part of the process. So the day to day I have now is pretty much I have all of the mistakes in the back of my head and I try not to hang on to them, but they kind of motivate me and remind me of what I do. My actual day to day professionally is: Get up. I always get up two hours before I have to start work or do anything. I’d like to say I meditate and sit there and listen to the very child out music. But I don’t. I’m pretty bad, I scroll through social media like a lot of people and I’m addicted to work. So I check all the social media’s first thing, see what the priority messages are. Then I probably write down what I have to do and then I go and work and I do a full day cutting hair and then I kind of plan my day. This is how nuts I think I am at what I do, like, don’t laugh, but like I’ll be sitting on the toilet and lock myself in there for five minutes and I will actually tweet or put up an Instagram story of work related stuff, not me in the loo.

And that’s how mad it is and that’s how much I want it. And it’s like it’s unhealthy because it’s cost me friendships and relationships. And, you know, I’ve had previous girlfriends being like to me:bMan, like, why are you not coming to this wedding?” Like, well, I don’t want to take a Saturday off. I don’t really know the person. If I’m not there on a Saturday, the takings will be down and the team needs me there on a Saturday to finish up strong. And who’s going to do the social media.

So it comes at a cost. The slight success that you might say I have, but my day to day is good. You know, I get up as I said, I get up, I check social media. I have a coffee, go to work, work a full day. In between that and on my lunch, I’m on my phone and I suffer with chronic pain in my hands now and it’s definitely because I use my hands for the phone, for a laptop, for gym, for cutting. And they’re never not working, only when I’m sleeping and it’s yeah it’s crazy. It does come at a cost. You know, that’s that’s one thing I found out at a youngish age. It’s scary. You know!

Gavin (20:05):

Yeah, and Sean you’re given a lot of value to people, I suppose just showing your work ethic and something that you did mentioned a minute ago was how important it is to always be learning. And I’m a big believer in surrounding yourself with people that are resourceful, that can help you to achieve your potential. And I wanted to find out if you had any specific mentors along the way that would have guided you. If so, what kind of impact that they had on you and the business? And if not, do you feel it would have been beneficial to have someone guiding you through the process?

Sean (20:38):

You know what? Not really, no, the same way that I’m actually a self-taught barber. So there’s not many barber schools., if any in Ireland. There were one or two that are quite basic and in business, like I said, I finished school early. I don’t have any older brothers or uncles that would have taught me the way. Like, I just know my dad was a hard worker and my Mam and would I have liked a business mentor or did I have any? Not really.

Ok, granted my first business in the record shop, the landlord kind of helped me a little bit. Like he said, “Aww get this, this is the accountant you should get. Here’s what you need to do.” And he did help me a little bit. And it’s you know, when you work with someone who you’d call a friend, like it’s on your landlord, it’s hard mixing business with pleasure. So he helped me at the start. But unfortunately, at the end of the original shop, which we started out in, and that’s why I just don’t mention his name or shop out of probably out of a bit of hurt and a bit of I don’t want to say anything bad about anybody, but we ended up we don’t speak anymore.

And that’s what I’m saying in everything comes at a cost. Like the landlord who was my friend helped me and gave me the opportunity. And I walk past him in the street now and we don’t say hello. And, you know, again, that’s a valuable lesson I’ve learned. And I’d like to obviously always make amends with people. But then when I look at people who guided me or who gave me some sort of mentoring.. Not really, I think that, like the truth when you walk through life, you learn these things like, you know, like, for instance, we had a flood in the shop one year and I was like, I didn’t have shop insurance.

I was like: “What!”. So then you’re like, oh, crap. If I had had insurance, I would have gotten all the money. That was all the stuff that was lost in their flood. I would have had that money back. So you just learn as you go along. And in a way that’s kind of good because I’m kind of self taught and I have all these like I now do business coaching which I’m not too sure if you guys know. But that’s invaluable to people now. And if I didn’t teach myself, I wouldn’t be able to generate money or revenue by doing business coaching now, you know, if I had a business coach back then, I wouldn’t have made a lot of mistakes, I did, but now that I’m probably the only or one of the only barber business coaches in Europe that I know, it’s it’s pretty mad.

So I don’t know. I think it’s a I think it’s worked out well with me not having a business coach in some ways. But then I’m kind of snookering myself by saying, if you don’t have a mentor, you will make mistakes. But, you know, it’s a bit of a weird one lads, you know, I do and I don’t.

I have no regrets. Basically, that’s what I’m trying to say.

Sam (23:35):

Yeah. Like going out on your own. I mean, it is filled with its highs and lows and it’s not an easy road, but I mean, as problems or challenges present themselves, how do you face them? Like is each one different or, you know, have you kind of developed a way to be like, OK, this is the approach I’ll take? I mean, what’s the biggest headwind you’ve faced since starting out?

Sean (23:55):

And it was the original shop, losing the original shop because the landlord cut a deal with my own employees. He made them a deal like The Godfather. He made them an offer they couldn’t refuse. The guys that took the shop over didn’t have any backbone. Or respect, or love, or consideration for me, which is very hurtful. I’m waiting for an apology. Right. Which I know I’m not going to get out of, like, whatever the guys are too stubborn. And I’m like, if I employed you for two years, I’m grateful for the opportunities. I put so many people on so many platforms. And to be not even spoken to or asked about it, how do I say this? The biggest headwind was losing the original shop to my own staff, but then again, the learning process of that is if I had had a better contract with a good solicitor, I wouldn’t have lost it. So I went on to do amazing things ten times better than what I had. So I’ll go into that.

But the head wound was, on a personal level, being screwed over by people you cared for and helped and built up and grew through your own company. It’s like I’m super proud of all of the staff and I’m very grateful for every one of them for helping me, whether they skanked me or not.

And it’s only these particular guys that did it. And that hurts because all of the staff who have worked for me, I’m friends with and support and have worked with and still see and have a pint with but this particular one, I don’t know why the lads just don’t seem to have had the love, care consideration, our backbone to say, look, we’ve been offered this or we can’t say no. It just blows my mind that somebody could have the audacity to do that and to walk around Dublin and and go on. And it’s I think it’s piggybacking off someone’s success. You know, I still own all of the stuff in the shop. I own the tiles. The mirrors, like all of the work gone in was me. It’s not them. That’s hard. That’s the biggest headwind.

And it’s it’s been two years. And I’ve actually seen the landlord today going. So isn’t that pretty mad? So it hurts me that the guy that gave me the start had to for his own reasons, I respect, had to just say look it’s been, it was five years or six years. He’s like it’s come to the end of the road, you know, and we’re going to go our separate ways. And I was like, can you do this to me? And in my contract, obviously, my lease had said, yeah, it was up and I was like, I presume we were just gonna renew it. And presumption is the mother of all F-ups, you know, so that’s the worst one lads.

I’m very passionate. And I stated it a lot. I even made a T-shirt saying “Stay away from snakes and fakes”. That’s how I invented it. And you know what? Nothing but bad things came from that. You know, it was more grief. And the lads were trying to book in fake appointments. And they did and slandered me. And it was just a bad vibe. And it’s not what I’m about. I actually wish the lads well now. And hopefully they’ll send me an apology card and a bottle of whisky if they hear this podcast.

Gavin (27:02):

Yeah. And, you know, it goes back to something that you mentioned a few minutes ago. It’s the whole concept by John Kavanagh of you don’t win or lose, you win or you learn. I suppose, even though that was one of the biggest pieces of adversity that you faced on your journey, it’s just one of those lessons and it’s one of those things that you’re kind of forced to learn from. And like you mentioned, with the solicitor and the lease and everything, it’s a mistake that you make sure not to make again.

I was just going to say, there’s a lot of universal principles that you can learn from starting a business that can be applied to different businesses in other industries. And I’m sure you’ve applied them in starting other ventures such as the Cut and Sew apparel and then the coaching that you mentioned, what would you say are the most important principles or values that you’d share with our audience?

Sean (27:48):

And I mean, treat people how you want to be treated like not only is Dublin a small town like the world is so small. You know, I’ve been on holidays and literally people would be like, What do you do and you’re like, I’m a barber? Where do you work? Cut and Sew. No way, my brother goes there, my cousin goes there, my fella goes there. And, you know, I don’t know, just don’t screw people over because your reputation is everything. And yeah, don’t screw people over, treat people how you want to be treated and just be a good human, you know, be sound. I suppose being an Irish man, it’s like. I think our nation, we’re pretty cool, you know.

I think we’re pretty cool and don’t be an asshole, you know what I mean? It’s and also, like, I try to be as good a person as I can be, as nice a boss as I can be. And my very first boss in a hairdresser was a guy called John Maher, he passed away during Covid, not Covid related i don’t think. And it hit me. I was like, wow, this guy was my favourite boss. He treated me with so much respect, even as an apprentice when I literally had to clean the toilets and make tea and coffee and shampoo the granny’s hairs that I didn’t particularly like doing. He actually was like caring and considerate and considered my future.

And I was like, you know what? I worked harder for him because he treated me with respect. And he made me feel like I could go on and move on in my career. And I was like that that made me want to be a cool boss. So that was kind of like, yeah, I don’t know, a bit of a motivator for me. That’s maybe because I had a really good boss. And now when I think of my story, like, I would like to think I am the soundest boss and you know, I like I don’t know if every boss actually feels like that, but I genuinely feel it in my bones. And that’s not detrimental to me because all of the staff that have worked with me, they’ve all gone on to do, nearly all have gone on to open their own shop or do their own thing. And that’s what you want. You know, I see all of the people have a twist and they don’t want their staff to leave them.

I’m like, I only said it this evening, if you are here in five years, I think we’re going to have to terminate your contract. I was like, I don’t want them to be stuck in the same job, a role for five years. I think it’s important to move on because we are the leading brand in Ireland. And I think that’s the mindset you have to have as a leader.

As you know, if you want to call it cheesy, it’s cheesy. But I do feel like I’m leading these twenty guys who are coming to me to be either apprentices, to go on to be a senior barber or to manage, to have their own shop. And if I’m not on my A game or a nice boss, or show them how it’s done, I think they’re going to upset or ruin the industry they’re getting into. And that’s it. Actually, it’s weird that four guys that worked for me this year have opened their own shop, but we still seem to stay busy or keep getting busier. And I think it’s because I wish them well. And people respect not only me, but the Cut and Sew brand. They’re like that and I support and build them up. And it’s what I was kind of trained to do as a hairdresser, you know, have my own salon or I just, I don’t know, I had a good leader. So it’s come back to me, I think ten fold. You know, the rest in peace, my old manager. But like, he grew from working for somebody to having his own franchise, to opening his own shop, to then losing a shop and passing away. And it’s just, life goes so quick. So be a good human, you know. Sorry, I went on a bit of a tangent there lads!

Sam (31:29):

That’s pretty inspirational there Sean. I kind of wanted to talk a bit more about Cut & Sew. Obviously a very successful and recognisable barber shop brand here in Dublin. Right now, we’re quite literally living in a bit of a weird reality with people wearing masks and everyone stuck inside all the time. How has Cut & Sew been handling the whole covid situation?

Sean (31:50):

You know what we’re pretty lucky with. So basically, I actually lost a business, so I actually set up a sister company, if you want to call it that, called Blindeye Barbershop. So I met an entrepreneur or a multimillionaire whose name I won’t mention.

He’s passed away as well. God lads. I feel like I’m a bit of a curse so hopefully you guys are doing all right after you release this podcast, but listeners don’t get worried. Tune in!. Ok, so basically I had two shops and then started to get a bit known around town, I opened up one chair then the one chair grew to two chairs, which was blown. Then the two became four. And then we had to redo the whole basement of the shop I was in and expand. And then it was so busy that we were losing people, we had more people getting like, what’s the word, not being able to come in, getting refused to come in because we were the only one or one of the only shops to do appointments.

It was a little bit mad. You know, if you can’t get into a pub or a club or a restaurant, it makes you want to go there more. Maybe. I think it was because no one had seen that before. The amount of guys and coming through to the record shop, the owner was getting peed off.

So I think that was a little bit of the start of resentment or a bit like here man, like we were only meant to rent a tenth of our shop. And now you have more staff than us and you took over more space than we actually have. And it was kind of mind blowing. It was mad.

But sorry what was the question? Sorry lads as I keep on going off the point here.

Sam (33:29):

It really just: How has Cut and Sew been handling the whole covid situation.

Sean (33:34):

So how is it handling it?I think, the start of when we grew and the success of it and bla bla bla bla bla. I don’t know, we were kind of used to coming from nothing and the mindset of if we lost it all or if it went back to me just having one chair, I wouldn’t mind. So when covid hit, I remember the weekend of it.

I’m getting off the point here. So when I had another shop, Blindeye and we basically had another shop and I lost that again because I got screwed over by the investor or the business partner. And I went from having two shops to three, then from three to two. And then this thing happened with me losing the original shop and had to grow it. I was used to ups and downs, I think, and not knowing what was coming around the corner. So I’ve never mentally prepared for crap or Covid like anyone.

But I think because, you know, so many mad things happen when covid hit, I was like, right, what can I do if I obviously want to keep all the shops open and the brand to expand, to maybe become global and well known and who knows what I’ll do in a few years? But when covid hit, we were hit bad, you know, like we didn’t hear back from two of the three landlords in the three locations. We didn’t know what was going to happen, who was going to stay with us, how we were going to pay the bills.

You know, you don’t plan for the rainy day fund for a pandemic, do you? Like I don’t know anyone that’s had it. Obviously, every one of our parents went through like a recession or whatever, but everything was going well for seven, eight years. That was just success after success. And, you know, that kind of snowball, you don’t see this happening. So we kind of were fortunate enough that when it hit, we lost a couple of staff like we lost. I think we lost about six of the twenty staff we had in March.

And, you know, four of them just had a bit of down time to think about what their future was holding. And then with Covid payment being quite good. We’re very fortunate here. Some of the guys were illegally doing haircuts, which we didn’t condone, et cetera, et cetera. So we got rid of some of the staff who were there for quite long or we didn’t get rid of them. They left and whatever. It was kind of good that one or two guys who are kind of dragging away are holding us back, we were fortunate enough to not have to take them on when we reopened. So there’s kind of like a lot of fresh blood and good energy and we redid all the shops like anyone that follows me or the Cut and Sew journey knows I graft like mad and we cleaned and changed all the shops up.

We got really good relief from the government and council and rates and whatever else. And we’ve come out of this. I don’t know how, but we’ve come out of it way better than we went in. So we don’t have anybody who’s not, like covering their role or doing exactly what they need. We’ve hired new people and the shop when we reopened after the first lockdown like flew and the energy was good.

Like we went down from, I don’t know. Yeah, whatever. Like twenty staff to like fourteen. And so we lost nearly 50 percent of the workforce and then some of them went on to competitor shops and now we opened up again and we’ve hired more people and financially we’re in a better place, which is weird and I don’t know, it’s exciting. You know, our education took off. The online coaching that I started has like rocketed. You know, it’s mad I’ve no more space for this year for online coaching.

And I think we’ve dealt with it really good. You know, I’ve been given out loads of free information online. We did two runs of our apparel that’s sold out. And I get to do a lot of creative stuff. I’m so much about supporting local Irish businesses. And I feel like that. I’ve been saying it for years and it’s come back around that so many people have seen me support and actually doing it, that they supported us. So I think covid has been really good for us, which is a weird thing to say. And we’re not going to close down any of the shops and it looks like we’ll be pretty strong when we get back to normality. So I’m very, very lucky.

Gavin (37:49):

So as of now, you’ve got you’ve got your three stores around Dublin. I believe you’ve got multiple stores. How do you manage to retain that unique vibe that you established from the pop up shop as you gradually scaled up?

Sean (38:02):

Well, I mean, I don’t know. I think it’s just quite honest. It’s, you know, each shop that I do, I try and make, which is weird because we don’t franchise. And it might be something that we’ll do in the future, which I never thought I would say because I didn’t really believe in it, like I’m enemies with Starbucks and Costa and all that. And I feel like each shop is independent and has its own vibe. You know, Dundrum, Wellington Quay and Lord Edward Street, the three of them are different and have their own personality. But I think I hire people based on their personality, not because of their skillset. Barbering is a craft like you can teach someone to become a barber.

You know, it’s not like you need to be just amazing and talented. You’re not born to cut hair. I don’t believe in that. You know, I think you can definitely become the best barber by training or doing the most haircuts and doing the most education. And the uniqueness comes from hiring people on a personal level. So everyone guys girls, whatever they need. It doesn’t matter their orientation or where they’re from. And it’s just me on a personal level liking each individual you know we pick and play hopefully good music. It’s always been about boiler rooms, supporting local and hiring local hard working people. And then the communities get behind it. And I think they really love it. And again, it’s honest. You know, don’t get me wrong, it’s a barbershop. But it’s not just a barbershop.

You know, we made a documentary a few years ago with the guys at Collective, and we premiered it in the Sugar Club. And it’s so like what? Who does a documentary about a barbershop and you have a premiere. It was bananas, you know, and it’s when I think about it and even listening to myself back then, it was like it’s always been about family and the community and people around it. The name of the documentary is called Not Just A Barbershop.

And I think when people come in, like, you know, they come in early, they chat, they know the guy or girl. The music is good. You don’t know who you’re going to see in the shops, whether it’s like famous DJ’s, the local kind of man or woman about town. You know people bring their dogs in, there’s kids getting their first haircut, there’s the cool OAP’s. It’s pretty cool and exciting, I think, to come into the shops.

And because they’re all different, they cater to all the different people as opposed to just rolling out a franchise from the UK or America or like no disrespect to the most well-known famous barbershop in the Grafton barbers which is massively successful. I take my hat off to the guys they’re amazing at what they do.

Their business model is a lot different to ours. I could make a lot more money if I just opened up 10 regular barber shops, charged less money and didn’t do appointments and didn’t put in love, sweat and blood and tears into them. As I said it’s a labour of love. You know it’s because I still do the job five days a week. cutting and then I still work on my days off doing the social media. It’s a labour of love. I look at them like my children in a weird way. Each shop I’m very proud of and the staff in it so I think people vibe off that. And that’s why they keep on coming back. You know?

Gavin (41:24):

Yeah, yeah, and I think everything that you’re saying, you know, telling us about Cut and Sew, it kind of translates across to every type of business you need to kind of create a community.

And you’ve kind of infused your personality into the brand and you’ve translated into the different locations. Just wanted to ask something, though. I’ve recently read this book by Phil Knight, so Phil Knight is the founder of Nike.

Sean (41:50):

Shoe Dog?

Gavin(41:51):

Shoe Dog, yeah probably one of the best books I’ve ever read. It was so easy to read, but I don’t know if you’ve read it.

It’s fantastic. So it was basically documented and gives the narrative of the struggle towards success.It it’s not easy you know it’s kind of told by Phil Knight. And he goes through the ups and downs from setting up the factories and thinking they’re about to collapse, you know.

Sean (42:15):

Aww yeah, and having no cash flow!

Gavin (42:15):

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that kind of brings me to the question. Has there ever been a moment where the business came close to failure or you thought, you know, maybe this isn’t going to work?

Sean (42:25):

Yeah, like you guys said, what was the biggest headshot moment or headwound moment. I basically, I don’t know if anybody knows this, but the rainy day, thanks to my dad. He was like, Sean, you’re nuts. He goes: Why are you bleeding getting all these nice apartments? Why are you flying first class to feckin’ Bali? Why are you going around wearing designer gear? And I was like again, I was like I was in a long term relationship for six years and God love the girl. I think I was a disaster the last two years because I just started Cut and Sew and then I was like mental into, you know, it was like, this is my little ticket to success. I just want to be my own boss.

That’s like when I’d write a book, which I will do when it sounds a bit crazy, because people around you say you are only a barber, you’re not a millionaire. You’re not like a feckin’ Gary Vee type. And I’m like, I’m my own Gary Vee, you know? But I just want to lead and feckin’ get on with it you know, I don’t know. It’s pretty mad to think of, like where we are, where we’ve gone and where you can go. And with that to go back to your point about Shoe Dog, what I got from that book. Did you say you go from it like a bit of a struggle kind of buzz?

Gavin (43:32):

Well, what I was saying is that the book is effectively a narration or it’s him telling the story of the struggles and the ups and the lows and how it’s not all roses when you’re starting a business and you’re trying to grow the business, you know?

Sean (43:44):

But to come back to the kind of point of was I was ever at failure, and the success, when I think of the Shoe Dog book and a lot of the struggle books and it was when two years ago, exactly about this time last year was five weeks to Christmas, I got an email like imagine your friend of ten years, your landlord of five, someone who you grew distant with, to send you an email, like not even a phone call or face to face to say Cut and Sew won’t be trading in five weeks. Not even thanks. It was I couldn’t so I won’t be trading in five years. It’s been a hell of a ride, it’s a hell of a ride, let’s meet up and discuss…

I got that email two years ago and I didn’t plan on losing the shop, which was effectively the most financially successful shop because the rent was quite cheap and we’re in a basement. I was like, oh crap, I have to get all of the six lads in that shop employment for January 1st. And I was on a plane in business class about to take off and I checked my emails, which I would never do when I’m on holiday mode. I was going over to get a holiday before the Christmas rush and my heart sunk and I kid you not. I literally was like, you’re kidding me. It was like being stabbed in the heart and it was so cold I couldn’t believe it was legit or it was real.

I said, what have I done to deserve this? But we grew apart. There was resentment. I wasn’t an angel tenant, you know, I kind of maybe took my eye off the prize and I then went into a state of, like, shock. The only time I stay off my phone is when I’m on a plane. Well, I don’t go on the Internet. You know, I had to go on Daft.

I had to see how I get a new shop. Like it’s not cheap. You know, you can do a shop for cheap or you’re talking 20 grand to get your solicitor fees.Your Head of Terms. You need a security deposit, you need a shopfit. And you can get builders in five weeks. And I was saving for an apartment. And, you know, if an apartment’s €300k, you need 30 grand first. So I was essentially stripped of my first house, or apartment, because I spent all of that money to guarantee the six lads in the basement had employment for January.

And I didn’t know that the landlord had spoken to the two guys, now the two top guys in there. And he cut them a deal and they knew I was fighting to get them jobs. They even came into the shop two weeks before I opened and still hadn’t spoken to me. And this is where the head wound comes in. And I was like. I mean, how can you walk into this shop where I’m trying to save your job and you know well and good because they’d ordered the stuff weeks in advance that you’re taking over the shop and you see me on my hands. And I did all the work in there from my carpentry days.

And I begged and I grafted and as if there was a picture of me on my hands and knees covered in mud and cement and on the floor painting and cleaning like we did it and I opened the shop to guarantee they all had employment. And the day before we opened, somebody had leaked that they’d seen the guys in the heard that they’re not coming with you. And I was like, you’re joking me. And I had to walk in on the day before opening the new shop, I went in to pick up all of the final bits in the basement where I started and the guys were in there cleaning and painting and like that is the worst I’ve ever felt after paying these guys a fortune and helping them.

And I was like, I’ve just spent what should be money for my first property to save your job and you are skanking me and the landlord didn’t even look me in the eyes. I had to walk up and down the stairs of the basement like it was the most awkward ten minutes of my life. I’m like you absolute shady fecker, like, you know what I mean, it’s just it was so badly done. And in turn out of the six guys, four of them went back to the basement and it was horrible.

So technically I hit rock bottom in the sense of the business. And I was like, man, I could have lost. I could have gone from three shops to two and all the staff would have looked bad. But in my own defense, I think, as I was saying and I have to go back to this because I just finished that book, Ego is the Enemy. I hadn’t grafted in the last two years. I got so much success so quick and there was no one at our level and there was nothing like no one was opening shops like us and it was just crazy. And we ruled the roost that I think I needed that wakeup call that, oh, God, you need a better solicitor. You need to secure your own future. You need to make sure that you’re hiring the right guys. And your brand then is cool.

I hated that basement and I don’t like to use that word, but that’s why I couldn’t go in. I couldn’t face it. The upstairs bit, the record of it was like I don’t even.. The lads are lovely that worked there, some of them, but it was so childish. And you have to like to walk into a business via an order business. I had outgrown that and become, you know, bigger than that shop massively. And I was just like I was so own unclued-in to running that business. I just thought it would run forever, that by losing the shop I gained Lord Edward Street, which has now come on to be the most financially out of all of the shops massively. And it’s not in a basement. It’s got the biggest windows of a barbershop in Dublin City Centre

And we run an academy out there. We don’t have to share a shop with other people. And I’ve never been happier with business. So it’s funny that by losing that, I’ve set up myself for like a ten year lease in all of the shops, which are bulletproof with the best solicitor they have, which is Nicola Rooney. And OK, you might lose the first shops and that might take away a lot of your €30/€40k that you had saved and worked hard for.

And that’s hard to do, lads when you’re a single guy flying first class around the world, I might look like I’m rich, but I’m definitely not, you know, and it was the best story. And it’s and then before, like then Gavin, I remember I was like, what am I going to do when I think I bought, like, a Business for Dummies book. And I started to read and I bought Shoe Dog and I bought The Four Hour Work Week, I’m looking at my books as I’m reading this. I bought Winners, Ego is The Enemy, I bought Win or Learn and I read Alex Ferguson’s book: Leading.

I read all these books and I don’t know, the entrepreneur word is a bit mad, but I think by getting that wake up call like I hadn’t worked that hard, I had spent the five weeks. As soon as I got back from New York from the first week of December to the first week in January, I worked on Christmas Eve day.

I worked every day. My birthday’s the 2nd of January and I had to go into the shop and pick up the old bits on that day. And on my birthday, I’d seen these guys who I’d hired and they still didn’t apologize to me. They didn’t go, oh hey, they were physically moving my stuff out of the shop where I had hired them. And it was tough and it’s two years this January. So I’m going to make it my mission to fly. Hopefully, if I can leave the country, I’m going to fly first class out of here and I’m going to have champagne, and I wish them well and quarantine to be safe away from Dublin You know what? Look at the difference in two years where I have grown, expanded and I’m in a financially better place and just two years, my future in business is way safer than it was then. And it’s you know, I’m going to cheers to that. And I think I’m going to, I think two years enough to let go. You know, I’ve had breakups that haven’t lasted this long.

Sam (51:48):

Fair play to you Sean like you’ve come a long way. I mean, I’m definitely sure it’s made you the better man of it all anyway. But I just want to pivot here as well. I just want to talk a bit about competition.

So you kind of differ yourselves a lot and that you’re just a really cool kind of barbershop.

Sean (52:09):

Well I don’t know if we’re cool-cool, but I think we are!

Sam (52:12):

So Andy Grove of Intel, I think he was the third CEO of Intel, and he was also the third employee. He developed this test which was latter popularised by Warren Buffett to help understand the competitive dynamics in the market so I thought I’d ask you this question;

If you had one silver bullet, which competitor would you take out?

Sean (52:31):

Oh, geez, that’s probably the best question I’ve ever been asked. Oh, my God, that’s so, so good because, well, you know what, I think the guys probably have me blocked anyway, so they’re not cool enough to be on this podcast. So you know what? OK, I’ve two answers. I’m only going to give you the second answer because I feel privileged to be on the podcast.

The first answer is there is no competition because I literally only focus on me, the teams and everyone that is in the four walls and all the Cut and Sews. And I kind of live by that. I mean, it’s cheesy, but we’ve all probably read some self help motivational books. I’m only ever in competition with myself and my future self, but I look at businesses like, who do I say, Sam’s Barbers and I’m so impressed with them. It’s so funny. There’s a thing in Dublin I think.

You know, people they want to see you do well, but not better than themselves. When I first started, they were so friendly to me because my shop was as best as I could make it or afford it, but it was a shithole. Like when you look at it like there was my Mam’s kitchen chair wasn’t even a barber chair. There was a mirror I’d taken from my Mam’s shed, right. And it was literally nailed to the wall, like not even hung professionally. There was no wifi. There was no Facebook, Instagram, there was no booking link. And then when I grew and then I opened a shop opposite Sam’s Barbers on the quay, which is now the Wellington Quay shop, which is the biggest shop we have, and it has like an antique feckin’ pool table in it. It’s beautiful. It’s unreal, and it’s on the Liffey, but it faces opposite Sam’s on the other side. They did a whole rebrand, I think, about two or three years ago, and they felt like they were very dated. Like I was honest.

I was like, we’re way better than them. And as I said, every owner should feel like they are better than everybody else. I think that’s just who I am. And I think as a leader, as I go back to it, you should feel like that. And I got that from the Alex Ferguson book: Leading. You know, if your team doesn’t believe in you, well, then the whole thing is kind of tarnished. And I do believe in us. And that’s why I think everybody wants to work for us. So the silver bullet would probably give to Sam’s because they’re independent, they’re not franchises.

They have two shops in town. We have two shops in town. They’ve opened up a beautiful new shop, not even called Sam’s. I don’t know the name of it in Blanchardstown. And then they’ve two in the suburbs. We’ve only one in the suburbs. So I think I presume a silver bullet means get rid of them. Does it?

I probably watch too many vampire movies and I mean that in the best way. That’s me giving them a compliment. And because I still feel like they’re financially probably way better than me they must be if they’ve got more shops. But it’s like you can’t, you can’t bottle coolness or what’s likeable. But it’s the same way with like.. How do I say this?

OK, so we all know Centra right?. Yeah. We can feel this is a weird analogy but don’t get me wrong, I like a chicken fillet roll like the next man. But you’re not going to bring a girl or somebody you’re seeing to Centra for a chicken fillet roll, you’re going to go to like KC Peaches or somewhere a little bit more up market. But Centra is probably the most financially profitable shop or news agency in Ireland.

Like everyone knows Centra and not everyone knows KC Peaches and I feel we’re a bit like KC Peaches. It’s cool, it’s more premium and expensive, but it’s definitely not the most financially profitable shop, which is weird to me to say on the podcast, but it’s yeah, it’s a bit weird. So it’s Yes. Sam’s Barbers is getting the silver bullet but that’s only to you guys I’m saying that. But I don’t think we’re in competition with anyone else. It’s that I just try and better each shop and each year financially to myself.

Gavin (56:37):

I love that answer I suppose and especially the bit about, you know, it’s just you versus you, you’re not really going to get much from comparing yourself with other people and I especially like the Alex Ferguson book that you mentioned there as a big Man United fan. That’s a book I haven’t read, but I’m going to add it to the list.

I wanted to, I suppose just it’s on the same kind of topic. But just as you mentioned this a couple of times so far. One of the tools I can see that’s being really beneficial for the business is social media. How have you leveraged social media in order to scale your brand and on that then what advice would you give to those listening who are also using social media to build their brand?

Sean (57:14):

So again, when we first opened it was how do I say it? If I really am honest, when I’m a bit tipsy the odd time and I’m by myself, I find myself scrolling through Instagram, I go, wow that state of that haircut back six years ago or what was I doing, like putting a picture of something not relevant to the to the brand, or business on the business page, but I didn’t really know how to use it. And again, I didn’t go and do a social media course, which I think is only new, you can actually only do social media in college in the last two or three years. You guys might know that, like social media marketing.

But when I did set it up, I remembered the moment on even using it like a pic collage, you know, like the app where you can put it before and after pic on it. When I look back at them, that blew us up like we grew, like we were the biggest social media brand when we first started. Like I think, remember when you go back to 5k and 10k and it’s kind of plateaued now in the sense of like everybody is doing what we did and when we set it up, it’s a free platform. It’s a showcase online to show everyone what you’re doing and even all of the guys that have followed us.

It was so mad when you put up a picture of a haircut of a real person that is from Dublin and not a feckin’ American crew, handsome model that nobody looks like, guys can relate to that, you know, and I think we’re not the worst looking nation. And I’m not trying to insult the customers or yourselves or myself. But when you used to go to a barbershop and you see all these American crew models on the wall, you kind of didn’t point to go give us that one. You know, it just wasn’t cool.

But when you have the Instagram and it’s of the people that come into the shop, they can kind of relate, you know? And I’m like nearly everybody I ever asked, can I take a picture of the hair for the Gram? They’re like, yeah, they love it, you know what I mean? Like, it’s it’s it’s funny. It’s an honest way. And as I learned as I went on with social media, you get branding, then you have to advertise your Christmas hours are Valentine’s Day or gift cards. It’s a bit of training in itself. And now every time I do a business coaching session, they all ask about social media and I’m like, it isn’t easy to get to twenty thousand followers on Instagram when every second person or everyone has a social media account.

So it’s tougher to try and create content than it’s a job that I love and hate to do because again, with my hands being sore, I just know if you are not relevant, or on social media, you’re going to be at a disadvantage to your competitors. And it’s something that I’ve really worked hard on this lockdown. Like the second one is like, I don’t know if you guys have seen it, but we’ve done giveaways. We’re doing a raffle, the new clothing launch. We get all of the staff to heavily promote themselves within it. And it’s like we wouldn’t have the shops we have without social media. So free business advice is to up your social media presence and and do a course on it, you know, not even with me. That might be something on YouTube.

And it’s so available now. It’s like even Elon Musk was like everything is available for free basically on the Internet. And he’s right. You know, college isn’t. I don’t think it benefits a lot of people the same way. School didn’t benefit me. The real world is where I learnt at my craft. And what works for me, I think, is my personality and my work ethic. And that doesn’t cost anything.

Gavin (1:00:52):

You’re dead right, and just on that, I did Commerce in UCD, great course, I didn’t learn a single thing in three years, didn’t pay attention to anything that was happening.

Sean (1:01:01):

Wow, that’s very honest of you to say!

Gavin (1:01:02):

Yeah, but I’ve been out of college now three years and I’ve learned more in these three years because I actually want to learn about it. I think that’s so important for anyone listening. If you want to learn about something, you learn ten times the amount that you will in school or in college when it’s being forced on you. There’s no context.

And I just want to ask you, Sean, because we’re coming up to about an hour now so we won’t keep you too much longer.

Outside of Cut and Sew you also offer apparel, like you said, you’ve mentioned your business consulting and training courses in relation to barbering. What made you decide or make the actual choice to branch out into these ventures? And do you also plan to scale these side hustles, these businesses as much as you did for Cut and Sew?

Sean (1:01:42):

Jesus, lads, you know what? This might be the best podcast I’ve been on. This question and the question are insane. I’m not just on the flatter you, I know I said my personality is good, but I’m dead serious. So while I was in this lock down and I had the million dollar idea or the million euro dollar idea that I’ve kind of always known. And it’s come to a point where I’m like, you know what, like when I think about the success of it and the side hustles, where the first barbershop to do a documentary, first barbershop to make our own beer, and we’re the only one that does, I suppose, our own clothing range and seasonally, you know, we do four a year. And I’m like, it’s a labour of love. We don’t really make money off the clothing. And it’s like free advertising. We just cover our costs. The beer is an expense that we take, we don’t sell it. Like I feel I could do a coffee shop, a tattoo shop, a bar, anything we put our mind to.

And I I’m not going to say what it is, not because I don’t think it’s going to manifest. I know it’s going to manifest, but it’s something that I want to work on before I publicly announce it. I found like the side hustle things that I’ve done. I know I can see a million dollar Idea. And Cut and Sew the reason why it’s Cut and Sew and not Sean’s barbers is because it’s a brand that everyone can umbrella under.

And, you know, everyone’s welcome, as I said, from any age to any sex. And like, it’s a household name. And I believe and I work with all of the really amazing designers to create content. And I feel like we have enough home grown talent to make this like a global brand name, whether it was selling. We’re making our own candles now,that are gonna go through the roof and working with a company that made them here in Ireland, and I just feel like if I made it global, that it would do well. And again, why not do it? It’s the side hustles, as you call it Gavin are like, I just I do them as a labour of love. But if I really put my business head on, if I wasn’t busy in the Lord Edward Pub on the Saturday or Sunday drinking, what they can achieve is phenomenal.

And just with pubs being closed and just having a clear head and learning loads of things, It’s just, there’s so much opportunity out there. Like greatness is what happens when opportunity meets chance or hard work. And I feel like I work harder than anyone in my industry and I’ll take the Pepsi Challenge with anybody and that motivates me so the side hustles will be what makes me a millionaire, and for a barber and a barber shop owner, not many people can say that and I take my hat off to the Grafton Barber lads who are millionaires and they franchised their brand and they have Ferraris, I believe, and live in like their own estates in Kildare.

And it’s you know, it’s I just haven’t been focused on the money. And I think that’s not my motivation. But I can see it as I’ve become an older gent that I’m like, yeah, I can see myself becoming a millionaire from the side hustles. And all of this will pay off. And it’s my time to reevaluate and think of my future, I never as I said, I never thought about the future properly. I just thought about starting with myself first, then the staff. And now I think I’ve just matured to be, you know, in a position that I think I do believe in the brand.

And if you do believe in it, everybody else will. The same way I believe in the staff I believe customers and future customers will believe in it. It is a good story when I think about it, because it is a bit of not rags to riches. But, you know, as I said, I did start with one chair, one mirror in a pop shop and it’s I feel like I could open a shop anywhere in the world with the brand I’ve created.

Sam (1:05:34):

So just one more question and then we’ll let you go. So talk to us about the long run.

You mentioned the bit there. Like to see yourself becoming a millionaire as you got older, but I’m sure you have big goals. But where do you see the future of Cut and Sew, I mean, what’s the endgame for you? Do you kind of want to transition into franchising or, where do you see it going from here?

Sean (1:06:01):

I couldn’t look into the future back in the day. And I mean, I used to be so anti franchise and so anti global and like, you know, because I came with the attitude, like, it’s just me against the world. And all of the guys in my industry didn’t really appreciate what we were doing. So I was like, I’m happy to just do my own thing. But then what motivated me was, I suppose, proving everybody wrong. And the future holds… well an opportunity, came to open in London, New York, and I was like, you know what? I just don’t know if that’s what I want. You know, I think that where it makes money for us as open shops, I think it is in Ireland because, again, not everybody gets the Irish humour. And what seems to work is shops in places that we know and hire and people in places and towns that, you know, the customers or future customers know them. So we’re definitely going to expand this year, which people don’t know. But I’ll say it because I think it’s very relevant. I went to open two new businesses, both which couldn’t go ahead because the covid and has been a step back.

And not everyone tells you about the failures or the non-opens, but they will happen. So next year there’ll be a new shop and we’ll expand on maybe doing the bear or product range. And I think we’ll just kind of water the plants as such, or water what we have going for us will invest more in the staff and the new staff. We’ll always upgrade the shops and I think just work on what we have. Hopefully things like doing podcasts with guys like yourselves and spreading the word of Cut and Sew is important. And that’s my job. You know, people can relate to me because they’re like, I remember going to Sean when he literally couldn’t afford rent the next week or when I was in my Mam’s house in the box room doing three jobs, so I didn’t have to go back to the hairdressing. And I don’t know, people, I think like to see the start.

I get more likes on posting a picture of me than I do of a haircut now, which is funny. So it’s a yeah, I dunno, it’s a bit of a personal story. And I think that’s why we relate to Phil Knight and stuff like that in the shoe dog story. When you think of Nike and you see his story like and he’s selling Nike’s out of the back.

I called it Nike, but I remember now that in the book he says it’s pronounced Nike-eee, just have to get that in, that people don’t realise the struggle he had of all the failed, like sleeping in the office, selling the car, the shoes at the running track out of his boot of his car, having no cash flow. Being a bad businessman to then getting lucky and going over to Tokyo, Japan or somewhere. And the temple is Nike and then getting the deal. And it’s like people don’t really see the struggle. And I’m very transparent with the story of Cut and Sew and it works.

And hopefully in a year’s time, next year will be even better, more financially off and just what we’ve put in comes out and it kind of flourishes and yeah, hopefully I hope everyone does well also you know?. So, anyone who’s listening to this that’s lacking a bit of motivation. Like, you know, it’s I hope it’s some kind of story for one or two listeners that are like God. Jeez, that sounds like humble beginnings, you know, for us. And I hope to see them up in first class having a champagne toasting to success.

Sam (1:09:17):

Well Sean, I think that’s a great closing note. it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show! We really appreciate you taking the time out to talk to us and hopefully when Covid is over myself and Gav can take ya for a pint as a thank you.

Can you share with our audience where they should go to find out more about you and Cut & Sew?

Sean (1:09:34):

So, yeah, I mean, social media is obviously, @cutandsewdublin, My personal one, which you may or may not want to follow, is @itsseanybeebaby. There’s more selfies on there and me dancing around the shops than there is haircuts. But there’s also a lot of free content for our business heads and people that are looking for a bit of inspiration.

So, yeah, that’s where I’m at and thank you so much for having me on lads. It’s an absolute pleasure.

Sam (1:09:58):

No, Sean Pleasure is all ours. And so thank you very much, thanks for listening and we’ll catch you on the next one.

Sean (1:10:03):

Thanks, Guys!