Living with PTSD Out Loud with La’Nita Johnson — Part II
By: Taylor Camille
Tags: BlackLivesMatter, Health, Podcast, Black Women, PTSD

In part two of our conversation, La’Nita Johnson, an education foreign service officer, mental health advocate and antiterrorism educator builds upon her traumatic experience. She details how she’s begun doing the work to create resources for civilians that experience similar events and how she’s learned to communicate her needs at work and in relationships.

Transcript from a conversation recorded 5/19/20

please excuse any typos. link to listen to the recording of this transcript here

Taylor Camille: Beyond our Cells is a podcast where I Taylor Camille share stories by those living a life fully and beyond any stigma or perceived limitations a health condition may have on their day to day lives.

We are now officially past the halfway mark of this season, a season that I dedicated to black women and our health histories . A lot has occurred in the time since I started this podcast.

There’s always been a part of me that was toying with the idea of who is this podcast serving? My heart is in stories that affect people of color. And that’s a broad term for a lot of people. That are often marginalized or considered minorities, but that have a lot of power. And we’re seeing a lot of that happening in the US right now with the black lives matter movement.

And so I will say Beyond Our Cells is definitely a p-o-d about POC, a podcast about people of color. And it’s been more evident to me the voices that really matter to me and the voices that really need to be amplified and the voices that need to be shared, are the voices from black people And so next season I want to tap into black men. So if you have any leads, please do let me know either by email. Or by DM or text if you have my information directly. But I do want to say in the wake of all of this, I’ve never felt more energized. It might not sound like it.

I’m recording this kind of late and I always end my podcast, which I realized people probably don’t listen all the way to the end. So I’m going to say it at the top, but I always in my podcast with, I hope this leaves you with a warm heart and an even cooler mind.

It’s something that my uncle wrote at the end of this letter that he gave to my mom and he passed away in his twenties. And it’s really stuck with me ever since I read it warm heart. Cool mind. And I just want everyone to think about that when, you know, when stuff seems really overwhelming or when you don’t have the answers.

Just to stay warm at heart, be kind and just keep a cool mind. Be collected in your thought. Be even keeled, be intentional with your actions. And I just can’t think of a better way for us to move through life right now. Stay warm. Stay cool.

This is the continuation of La’Nita and I’s episode on PTSD.

We’ve now somehow made it to June and June, amongst other many notable things is PTSD awareness month. And so this continues, that conversation we had in episode six. So if you didn’t listen to episode six, and this is just where you’re starting off with Beyond Our Cells, you might want to, because it’s pretty intense, but it details the source of La’Nita’s PTSD, which all started with a terrorist attack in Burkina Faso in 2016. This conversation we have, is more about resources and the path after the incident who she is now. And, yeah, I look forward to your feedback and hope you’ll listen to more and share and subscribe.

Another thing I say at the end of the pods, I think a lot of my, my action items need to be moved up, but I hope you enjoy, the second part of this conversation. Thanks for listening.

La’Nita Johnson: When I was looking into resources after coming back from the attack, a lot of the resources I found about PTSD were definitely catered towards combat war veteran service people, which they absolutely need those resources, but I didn’t see a lot of people that survived terrorist attacks. And so my goal was to start writing about these experiences about everyday PTSD. Because one thing my therapist at the time said was like, ‘the resources for PTSD that is suffered by veterans is very different because they know what they signed up for.’

You were at a restaurant, you were sitting down, you were drinking a Sprite. And then your life changed. So everything that you felt about safety changed about humans, like security, everything like that changed. And you didn’t sign up for that.

So your resources that you need need to be different and you need to read about different experiences. And so I wanted to convey that like, no, I didn’t go to war, but I’m also triggered by the same garbage truck , that a veteran may be triggered. Yeah,

Taylor: That’s really nuts to think about. Honestly.

La’Nita Johnson: My last job in Chicago when I came back from short term disability, someone was like, ‘Oh yeah, this person said that’s what happens when you travel to Africa. So I don’t really feel that bad.’ And so there’s just so much stigma that I was just like, I gotta write about this cause this is really crazy what I’m hearing.

Taylor: Yeah. that’s so insensitive. Like you’re supposed to not go to an entire continent because you could be in a terrorist attack?

La’Nita Johnson: But also it happens in white nations, like I said, in London, it happened at the Ariana Grande day concert, like it is not just Africa.

Taylor: Yeah. And have you like, that’s interesting. Talking about the Ariana Grande day concert, did you see more resources start to pop up for civilians who’ve experienced terrorist attacks, or was it still like a quiet terrain for people who’ve gone through this?

La’Nita Johnson: There wasn’t that much, and I know at that time I had to end up seeing a specific therapist for PTSD trauma, which often they’re working with veterans. I was even asking my therapist at the time, do you know any support groups for like civilian people that suffer from PTSD that were not in war and she knew no resources and so I was even Googling a couple of days ago are there PTSD support groups or meetup groups?

And it’s hard. There really aren’t that many spaces for us. There’s probably now more for school shooting survivors. I feel like terrorism survivors is very niche, especially for those of us who are Westerners and particularly from the United States.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely

La’Nita Johnson: PTSD has a face, the face is normally veterans, but like as a person of color, as a woman of color, and as a black person, black people are experiencing PTSD, period.

Albeit like the science, sometimes doesn’t capture communities of color. So the national Institute of mental health would define post traumatic stress disorder as a disorder that develops in some people who have experienced a shocking, scary, or dangerous event.

Some of these events might look like combat exposure, physical or sexual assault, bullying, accidents, robbery. Or in my case, terrorist attacks. But like, let’s talk about communities of color in some places where they’re experiencing violence on a day to day basis, police brutality, armed robbery, any of the things that impact communities of color, little black and Brown babies and children and youth and adults have lived all their lives in these environments

sometimes. And that environment in itself, they could not have particularly been involved with a robbery. They could have witnessed gang violence that also creates PTSD. When I was looking for resources. I found a YG interview, I think it was for a vice documentary.

And the doctor told him, you have PTSD brother, like you have PTSD. Absolutely. And there’s this kind of connotation that not I don’t, but like it is there in our communities and we have to find a way because the type of therapy that you need for trauma healing is expensive we don’t have the money, the resources, the time, the spaces, the access sometimes to get this and like that’s talked about in communities of color, either

Taylor: Yeah. It’s crazy because this word is so associated with veterans. Even though the war looks different here, it’s still a war. You’re still combating things that are out of your control and that you’re not equipped to deal with. You’re not equipped to heal from because it’s so normalized.

It’s just like, Oh, you’ll, you’ll get over it

La’Nita Johnson: Or ‘that’s your neighborhood’, like, yeah. speaking from the education lens, it has affects in our classrooms. So if you talk about some of the symptoms, paranoia, disassociation, irritability, lacks lacking sense of self, feeling numb, being on edge. Some of those symptoms someone would associate for a student that is disengaged, doesn’t want to be there, doesn’t care about being in the classroom, doesn’t take their studies seriously.

All the while not realizing what experiences they’re having, and not attributing it to a real mental illness that is being untreated. Like you would address a depression, a non person of color, address our anxiety, address our PTSD, address, our attachment wounding, all of those things the same way you would for someone else.

And let’s search for ways to provide resources because this oppression, these systems are not our fault. And so that’s also a huge part that I see there’s not enough conversation around either

Taylor: Definitely. How many therapists did you see between the Atlanta therapist and then the therapist who did eventually diagnose you?

La’Nita Johnson: Yeah. I’ve had three therapists. and the first one we tried to start CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy I didn’t particularly care for it. My second therapist, we did a blend of talk therapy and EMDR. Which is, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. And we also did a lot of work trying to replay the scenes and just reprocess the emotions to, the event.

But it wasn’t working for me. I did not like it. And then on my third therapist, which I love her so dearly, we’re now doing. It’s called CRM therapy, and it is, comprehensive resource modeling. I probably would have said no if she had told me what it was when we started, but it’s essentially

it seeks to help with remembering, reprocessing and releasing traumatic material from the nervous system in order to provide for reconnection to one’s true self. And so I say my timeline first because I absolutely would have never been able to do the therapy that I’m in now when I just got back from the attack because so much was happening

it took me getting an emotional support dog to leave my house, and even after that it was only to walk him. And so I would say the first year and a half after my diagnosis. I was a shell of a person.

I never would have considered having a therapist that I would have met with weekly prior to this and just exploring a lot of stuff that I’m like, yeah, you’re okay now, and it’s okay that that hurt then and you can feel that, but like you’re okay. Like you’re good. I think therapy is probably the most beneficial thing that has come out of this.

Taylor: Yeah. Do you think you would have gone to therapy before if this hadn’t happened? Just for like mental checkin.

La’Nita Johnson: It’s funny, my therapist now says you would have eventually ended up here, but it would probably be 20 years later and I can see that. I wouldn’t have told you I needed therapy four years ago I think I would have told you I went through the things every other millennial goes through.

When you move to a new city. it’s difficult, but I had a lot of friends in Chicago, I had a lot of fun, but I don’t think I would have ever pegged being a person that’s like, I need to have therapy every week because I think there would have been a stigma to the phrase, I need therapy every week.

I feel like everybody should have a form of therapy every week because. You get to talk about things that occurred and have a different perspective. It doesn’t mean anything’s wrong. It just means I don’t want these thoughts in my brain anymore and I need another perspective as to what happened or how I could grow from this.

I probably would have masked therapy as like executive coaching or mentoring, but it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t needed. be what I needed

huh.

It would have been like how to get to the next level and then,

Taylor: Okay.

La’Nita Johnson: yeah, it would have been a mess. It would’ve been a mess.

Taylor: Okay.

La’Nita Johnson: So I’m grateful. It’s weird that this happened, but it worked out.

I’ll say that.

Taylor: Yeah, it did work out. Oh my God

what has it been like working with PTSD?

La’Nita Johnson: I took off work for one month after directly coming back, but they were like, when are you coming back? So I went back to work one month after surviving a terrorist attack, and nobody asked me was I okay.

on my birthday back, nobody sent me flowers. Nobody sent me cards. They were gracious enough to let me work for a month with pay, but nobody asked me anything. And so for that to have been the first day back. I didn’t say anything about it, like it was just this unspoken thing that happened.

I did not sleep like my schedule at that job was already crazy. I had to be at work at like 2:00 AM 3:00 AM and my therapist at the time was writing these notes saying ‘she cannot be at work this early, she is not sleeping, she won’t be, well’, it was not pretty. They forced me to go on short term disability, which I later found out was illegal, because they would not give me the reasonable accommodation of coming to work later and so I was on short term disability for about five and a half months, and then I went back to work.

But I still couldn’t sleep. I still was having lack of motivation, lack of concentration, and I’m going to be honest, because we also don’t talk about this a lot. I had suicidal ideation, like I was driving very tired and there were times that I was like, ‘I just wish that I would drive off the highway because at least that would put me back on short term disability so that someone could know I’m sick’ because there is this thing that like

when you’re suffering from PTSD, it’s invisible. Your life perspective has changed. Like I just saw people being murdered. I was working for a chip company. I don’t care about these chips. I don’t care about what’s on the shade room.

I don’t, I just, I didn’t care about anything. I wasn’t shot, I almost lost my toe and like I have nerve damage, but I have no physical scars from this incident and so people are like, you’re fine. Go to sleep, wake up, you’re fine. And so for a while it really just seemed easier to not be, and it’s so interesting because I had to look at my therapist’s notes at the time, so I could send it for my job that I have now.

And reading that I had suicidal ideation was probably the most painful thing because I don’t think anyone. I don’t think anyone saw it. it gets exhausting. Not being able to sleep like it hasn’t been until this quarantine that I’ve been able to sleep through the night, like it’s been four years since I slept.

And so going to work every day at like two in the morning, not sleeping, it wears on you. And so I think grad school was the pause air quote that I needed. Because I didn’t have to physically go into a location. I worked remotely for two and a half years. But then my transition back, I went back to work full time.

in September, it was the hardest transition of my life because my schedule was off.

I remember, I was on my way to work. and so taking the train again was very new and you’re from DC, you know, the DC train is wild girl, people push you all of those things. But on my way to the train, they’re doing a lot of construction in my area.

And I saw a big drill, which I cognitively saw and recognized as a drill. But my brain was like, no, that noise, that noise is a gun and you’re about to die. And I had a full blown panic attack, in the middle of a street, crouched into a ball had to call my significant other to tell me ‘it’s okay, where are you?’ and get on the train and all of this happened. I’m crying on the train because of this noise trigger and the anxiety is kicking in as like, ‘girl, everybody’s watching you like this is embarrassing’ and your PTSD is like ‘Sis. You’re still not okay.’ And the depression is like, ‘girl, this is really sad’ and I still had to go to work.

And I remember I was in this meeting, I was not okay. And finally I was just like, I have to choose me. But even sending an email like this is what happened to me before I got here. Like I need to work from home for the rest of the day. It wasn’t met with ‘I’m sorry that happened. Are you going to be okay?

Like do you need anything?’ It was just , ‘okay, let me know when you’re online’.

Taylor: Oh my gosh.

La’Nita Johnson: There’s just so much stigma behind what PTSD is. I think for someone that may have been through a school shooting here, or was that like a pulse I think people are more able to wrap their minds around that because it’s something they saw but when you say, I was in a terrorist attack, that’s such an abstract statement. So conveying I’m still having psychological effects and ramifications from this event is a little more like, okay.

Taylor: Yeah you’ve come a long way. What is it like in relationships?

La’Nita Johnson: the one I’m in now, my partner is very understanding and I’m like appreciative of that because I think having come out of my last relationship where I don’t think PTSD was understood, and I will quote when this young individual broke up with me, they said like. n-words get shot every day. B like, why you tripping?

And I was like, I don’t know. Why is this happening? and so having that be my introduction to dealing with mental illness in a relationship, it wasn’t a good one, but the relationship that I’m in now and more over anything even in friendships, I would say it’s just so key for your friends, your family, your partner to understand every day is not going to be perfect and just.cut them some slack because there are times where I’m very short or I can seem super irritable or like very down or I don’t want to answer the phone or I don’t want to talk, or my mind is spacey and I think. A, as someone who is battling mental health and mental illness, I’ve learned, it’s very key for me to communicate like, ‘Hey, I’m feeling this way, or I don’t really know what I’m feeling right now, but if, if I’m not giving you my a hundred it’s not personal, but like I don’t really feel like talking today”.

And I remember days where I just like, could not get out of the bed and my person was like, yeah. Okay, we’re going to count to 10 like I’m going to help get you in the bed and stuff like that. But I just look back and be like,I never would have anticipated needing somebody that understands mental illness and the importance of mental health. As a 22 year old I wouldn’t have told you I need somebody that will like meditate with me or tell me like how to breathe when I’m having trouble going to sleep. Now, I’m like, this is absolutely key. Like I need this in a relationship for my health and for theirs as well.

I want somebody to be introspective and care about their own mental health and somebody that goes to therapy too

Taylor: I know there’s so much that as we grow, it’s like, no, this is essential and I’m shifting. I think that’s been my hardest thing too, is just like as we shift, like letting things go that have been so much of your identity or routine. It’s like, okay, now I can let that go. I need to focus my energy here. This is what I need now, and I think.

Yeah. Transitioning, even just school to work or I don’t know, all of the transitions in life. It’s like important to just assess what do I need in this moment right now and what can I make room for and what is taking up too much space? It’s crucial. I don’t think enough people do it.

La’Nita Johnson: And I was gonna say, I think we need to yell that from the mountain tops for black women because we deserve that. We do so much. We are so powerful and gifted and amazing and all of these spaces that like we absolutely deserve for somebody to be there with you and like make sure your head is right and you are well fed and you are taken care of and you feel respected and uplifted.

Taylor: Hmm. Uh huh.

what has life with PTSD taught to you about yourself?

La’Nita Johnson: I think PTSD has taught me so much about like I don’t have control. So quite honestly, I have to take everything one day at a time and I can’t put a timeline on what life is.

And I think before I used to think I had this very clear vision of what my life was going to be. like being a CEO or CMO in like a big fortune 500 and then opening this nonprofit and getting married and traveling and living this lush life and being Southern and having cute Southern raised kids. I don’t ever know if I sat down and was like, La? like, do you really want this? Like what is a fulfilled authentic life for you?

And so quarantine and exploring that through conversations with my therapist and getting into this really difficult type of therapy that I’m doing that I’m able to be like, you can sit on your couch and that’s okay. That would never been okay for me before this. I would have always felt like I needed to do something or make something or have a story to what I’m doing and PTSD day in and day out will tell you ‘sis you are not in control’ like. Patty lets me know when I got three hours of sleep.

You’re not doing anything today. Like you can’t be functional today. And I think I was trying to push through it so much, but now I’m at work and I’m very honest. I’m like, I feel mentally drained today. I can’t give my all

Taylor: Yeah,

La’Nita Johnson: just be it. Like it doesn’t make me a bad person. It doesn’t make me.

Want to be at my job any less. It doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that today I don’t have it. And so I think that’s probably one of the biggest things that it taught me, but also it’s just allowed me to dig deeper because I actually really don’t talk that much about the attack in my sessions.

And so I would have argued before I was doing this therapy, like this one attack changed my life. No, that wasn’t, it was 17 hours. I’ve lived a whole life before that. And so a lot of the work I needed to do to repair some wounding from littler La’nita’s, I would have never known if this attack hadn’t happened.

And I think is led me on a journey to live more authentically, which are words I would have probably never uttered before this but now the space that I’m in, being home, I have time for 90 minute therapy sessions. I have time to sit and remember who like La’Nita at her core is I love art. I love photography. I love sculpting. I love those things that have nothing to do with career, have nothing to do with getting ahead. And so I think the reshaping of identity that comes when you sit, and you take time and, and understand how this traumatic event reshaped your world. it’s nice, but people leave out that all of those changes, this four years has been really, really hard.

it’s tough unless you can have the support there from a professional from friends to be like, you can push ahead.

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, I feel you. It’s just like unending and you just have to embrace it. Honestly. how would you define PTSD in your own terms?

La’Nita Johnson: that’s a good question

La’Nita J: it feels like you’re drowning, but you’re not going to die. But also no one can save you. Like pit of emotion and feeling and change and grief and sadness and loneliness and like everybody can see or maybe cognitively understand that you’re drowning in that, you know, you’re probably not going to die from it. It just feels like. Black and dark and like this hole where you’re like, I’m, my body is here, but that’s it.

Taylor C: Yeah. I’m not present.

La’Nita J: Yeah. At all. There’s this place in Bolivia called the salt flats And you’re like walking on your reflection. And so it’s like you see yourself and you know that that’s you and you know that you’re walking somewhere or you’re doing a task or you’re at work or you’re having a conversation, but you are so completely detached from what that is it is like life altering and life shattering at the same time because it’s like, I don’t know who I am right now, but I don’t feel anything.

I’m just here. And it was the feeling of that not ending is like, I don’t, I don’t have any words. Only people that have experienced deep trauma and grief know that. And it’s the oddest feeling.

Taylor C: Yeah, it’s heavy. and there’s no escape and so you just have to sit in it.

La’Nita Johnson: yeah, but it’s good. I mean, resilience. they teach in education that resilience is a word of power. But I think black people are already so resilient that a lot of the stuff that we go through in our life, like I think we’re able to be like, this is not fun, but I’m going to take this and I’m going to make something shake.

Taylor: So I asked you how you would describe yourself before, how would you describe yourself now.

La’Nita Johnson: I love that. I think you’re the first person that ask me that cause before. Okay. Before I got on, I was like talking to my partner and I was like, how would you describe me? She was like, just think of it hearing everything, we just talked about, I can confidently say just growing and that’s it, learning and growing

Taylor: And allowing yourself the space to grow.

La’Nita Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, and my therapist says this one like tagline, which I’ve probably repeated like 9,000 times, living authentically me, that’s it. I don’t have an answer for where I’m going. I don’t have an answer for what I’m doing, how fast it’s going, how slow it’s going, how well I’m doing it, how bad I’m doing it.

Like I’m just doing it. And that is so new for me and so freeing that all I can say is what I’ve learned in the last four years; if you had written on a piece of paper, like, Hey, this will be your life, I would have laughed. I would have absolutely laughed, but the ability to say, I just don’t know, and whatever happens happens, and I’m going to like take it as it comes it just feels so much better. It feels like a weight is lifted off my shoulder

Taylor: Yeah, definitely. What other resources helped you along the way?

La’Nita Johnson: What helped me heal and it, it falls in with pre-corona traveling

my group and I on the weekend of the anniversary of the attack, we get together annually. And we have what we call a, a TARP, event.

It’s terrorist attack, reunion party. It’s crazy. Like we meet up and like somebody that gets there earlier has this, this big sign that says like TARP, and they meet us at the airport.

Taylor: Oh.

La’Nita Johnson: But we meet every single year on the date of the anniversary of the attack in a new location every year. We started in St Louis, we did Portland.

we did LA and I feel like I’m missing. Oh, and San Francisco. So we’ve done four and they have contributed so much to healing because I will state one of the weird things about PTSD is you develop this very morbid humor sometimes about what happened. I would try and make these jokes about near death experiences or like Al Qaeda interrupting the pizza that I ordered and people would just be like.

That is the one weekend that I have a year that I can make these really horribly offensive, like morbid death jokes and they’re acceptable. And like I can just be really, really honest about like. The space that I’m at because everybody there was there. Everybody had a different experience.

Everybody’s healing in their own way. Some people are in therapy, some people are doing other things. People have gotten married, had kids like everybody’s at a different stage and it just allows us really raw space to be like, I still don’t sleep. Or somebody. Saying like, I think every night about this one thing happening and you learn new things about these people each year.

And I’ll, I’ll tell you, if this attack wouldn’t have happened, I didn’t know the group before and I was the only person of color. The likelihood of us having stayed in contact might’ve been not that much, but like meeting up with them every year and sharing this, this trauma and this amazing trip that we had before I can lean on them for anything.

And this past anniversary, this past 15th we all got a call from the FBI. Around the same time. And the FBI was telling us, ‘Oh, we caught the person that planned the attack’, which is crazy cause it was like four years to the day that they caught the

Taylor: Wow.

La’Nita Johnson: and we all picked up the phone at the same time and was like, what is going on?

And then like a week later we were there in person to talk about it. And so next year, if the world is open, we’re supposed to be meeting in Guatemala, but that has contributed to so much of my peace. I will say that

Taylor: Yeah. What else brings you peace?

La’Nita Johnson: my dog. if it hadn’t been for him getting me out of the house, making me feel safe to hear city noises again, going to the dog park, I don’t know what it would be like.

He travels with me, he’s going with me to Guatemala. He was been there for the breakup. Like the moves, everything.

Taylor: He’s holding it down.

La’Nita Johnson: Chino be holding it down, emotional support animal throughout all of this. I think was a huge step in me returning to some sense of normalcy in establishing a routine cause I think when you’re, when you’re suffering with PTSD, routine is really, really hard.

And so having something that you have to take out these times a day, you have to go outside really helped me to getting back on, on track.

Taylor: And photography. You

La’Nita Johnson: My last thing, yeah. Photography has, yeah.I just bought this fancy camera and I’ve been using it and I love it. It gets me out on the street and I need to be outside to remember outside of isn’t as dangerous as I had perceived it to be.

Taylor: Yeah, that’s real. okay. Last thing. What’s like a word or phrase or like a state of mind or anything like that that you carry with you.

La’Nita Johnson: Be gentle. Be gentle.

Taylor: it. That’s a good one. Yeah.

La’Nita Johnson: You gotta be gentle.

Yeah.

Beyond Our Cells is an original series produced and hosted by me Taylor Camille, a variety of the series artwork shared here and on our Instagram @beyondourcells are created by Carmen Johns and Sierra Hood. My hope is that these listening’s have left you with a warm heart and an even cooler mind. I hope you are left feeling able to seek peace in the spaces and places you may find yourself in.

If you’re interested in being on the pod or have any compelling leads, please shoot us an email at info@beyondourcells.com and subscribe and share if you haven’t already.

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