A Comfortable Conversation with a White Woman
Tags: White Privilege, Work, Racism, Discrimination, Prejudice

Welcome to The Color Within, a podcast by Suubi people that explores the brilliant, colorful assets that people bring to the world and the environments they spend the most time in, including the workplace community neighborhoods and more. All while navigating a world with color codes. Join us in this episode where we talk with Deanna who is a lover of animals and works at a Fortune 500 company. We’ll explore the color she holds within and how to navigate the notion of white privilege in the workplace. Join us.

LYDIA: Welcome, Deanna.

DEANNA: Thank you, Lydia. Thank you. Nice to be here.

LYDIA: Yes. So, tell us more about where you’re from and more about your ethnic heritage?

DEANNA: Okay. Well, I’m originally from Chicago, Illinois and I always lived in America. I was born here. I’ve always been here. I speak English, I don’t know any other languages and my culture’s always been here.

LYDIA: Awesome. And what positive qualities do people say that you have?

DEANNA: I guess a reoccurring thing that I’ve heard through my life is that people think that I’m pretty easy going, that I set them at ease, that I make them feel comfortable and calm.

LYDIA: That’s awesome. And what do people pay you to do?

DEANNA: Well, currently I’m paid to be a receptionist, so that’s pretty self-explanatory I receive people and also, I have my aesthetics license, so I also do some skincare services on the side, my own business.

LYDIA: Awesome. And tell me a little bit more about what you’re passionate about.

DEANNA: Okay. Well, first off, I really love animals. I know, you know that, you said that in the beginning. So yes, I really love especially dogs and kitties, but I do love all animals and just nature, just being outside and I love fashion.

LYDIA: And can you tell me any time where you felt like somebody saw you in the workplace and really saw your talent, everything that you’re bringing to the table and just wanted to see you grow?

DEANNA: Okay. Well I would say when I was working at a spa in the aesthetics field I had some really positive remarks from different clients saying that they felt that I was really invested in what I was doing and that they felt very cared for and that they could just relax, which was great because that was initially why I got into it. And then also with, I was doing dog-walking and dog sitting and people, they just, they could just tell right off the bat that I loved the animals and that just put them at ease for me to take care of their pets. So that worked out.

LYDIA: Yeah. That’s awesome. And you know, when we’re talking about the workplace, you know, it’s another sphere of our lives. And a lot of times we spend most of our time at work, you know. And it’s important to be in an environment where we’re comfortable, where we feel like we can grow, and with everything that’s been going on in the world right now with a lot of the protesting and just a lot of the conversation that’s going on. I wanted to ask you, at your workplace or any other workplace in the past, have you ever experienced inequality firsthand or perhaps witnessed another person at work experiencing inequality?

DEANNA: I feel that I’ve experienced it, a particular situation would be when I first got into the workplace and I was younger. I was, you know, in my twenties, my early twenties, I felt very disrespected and I think it was tied to my age being talked down to, being yelled at.

LYDIA: Really?

DEANNA: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I wasn’t seeing that happen with other people. At the job that I was at. So the only thing I can think of is that they felt that they could get away with that because of my age.

So that was my personal situation as far as witnessing someone else, I would say yes, I’ve seen that too. I worked with a gentleman who I’m not sure what his disability was, but it was definitely maybe Asperger’s or something like that. I mean, I’m not, I can’t diagnose someone, but he definitely had kind of a delay with some things and it was hard for him to learn and he would talk really fast and he would have lots of questions for everything. And I felt like they weren’t always very accommodating with him and they were very impatient and would shut him down pretty quick even be somewhat hurtful and how they would respond. So I would witness that and I think that came from impatience, but it wasn’t right.

LYDIA: Yes, definitely. It’s so important to be inclusive for everybody at work. As you bring up that example, it makes me think of when I worked in Oregon I met this gentleman. He was blind and he had the walking stick and I would see him every day. And it was just amazing how he navigated through all the spaces and he was so inspiring. And I just had to meet him. I ended up reaching out to him and we became friends and we would walk from the shuttle that would drop us off to the workplace. And he told me the story of how he got this disability.

He was actually a rock climber and he was actually ice climbing. So he got to a point where he was on the cliff and there was an icicle that came down and hit him here in the temple. And that took away his eyesight. But he was this brilliant person. He had two engineering degrees. He was inventing things and he had a workplace and I got to see his workplace and everything was set up so that he could use screen readers and just be able to do his work. And thankfully he was in a place where they really accommodated his situation with not being able to see and he was able to grow and thrive. So, it’s so important to provide that environment there.

And, have you experienced anything because of your ethnic heritage or seen anybody experience inequality because of their ethnic heritage?

DEANNA: Yes. Actually, I had a boyfriend when I was younger, who was Korean. And I remember there was a handful of times that we would be out walking around and people would sometimes shout out derogatory remarks towards him. You know, just to what they thought was being funny or whatever. Right. And so I witnessed that firsthand with him, like I said, a handful of times.

LYDIA: Okay. Got it. That is very unfortunate. And where do you think that comes from for people to make those types of comments?

DEANNA: You know, I really had the feeling that it was because we were together because we were two different backgrounds that came together. And I don’t know if people feel threatened by that, I don’t know. I honestly, I wouldn’t do something like that. I don’t feel compelled to respond to people that way. It doesn’t even occur to me. It’s hard to understand it, but I don’t think, I don’t necessarily think it would have happened if he was by himself. I think it had to do with the two races being together kind of thing. Two people coming from two different backgrounds looking different.

LYDIA: Yeah. Very interesting. And do you feel like that same thing would happen today?

DEANNA: Oh, I know it happens today. Yeah.

LYDIA: Wow. Cause you think like over time people, as it gets more and more common, people will be more comfortable with it, but.

DEANNA: Well, I think that’s true. I mean, I think that a lot of people are more comfortable with it. But I think that there are still some people that aren’t, so it’s just unfortunate. I mean, it wasn’t that long ago that it was commonplace to be that way, you know? So what was it, the fifties or whatever. So it’s really not that long ago when I think about it.

LYDIA: Right. I want to share with you some statistics here. There was a Pew research study done in 2019 and it was talking about the notion of being able to get ahead in America. And what they were saying was they had a statement in there that said in order to get ahead in America, it’s helpful to be white. That’s what they were saying. So they surveyed different people with different backgrounds and they were saying that 59% of all adults believe that statement to be true.

DEANNA: 50%?

LYDIA: Yeah. 59% of all adults.

DEANNA: 59%. Wow.

LYDIA: That was 56% of whites, 69% of blacks, 61% of Hispanic and 73% of Asian. So I just want to get your thoughts on that notion. Do you agree with it? What are your thoughts on it?

DEANNA: I mean, it kind of brings me back to the thought of like white privilege. Right. It sounds like it’s connecting to that, which I really don’t appreciate that comment. I actually feel like that’s reversed racism, to be honest with you, makes me very uncomfortable. So yeah, I think that that definitely would exist unfortunately and does probably exist, not even probably, does exist in some situations. However, in the company that I work for now I mean, all of the, almost all of the higher up people are not white. I’m not seeing that everywhere that I go or everywhere that I’ve worked. I see a lot more diversity.

LYDIA: And can you tell me a little bit more about that notion of white privilege and the idea that it’s reversed racism, just want to hear more of your thoughts on that?

DEANNA: You know, I had heard that term quite a bit in the news and there were different conversations online, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, I think it was? And I had heard about it before, but I just kind of rejected that notion. I just wouldn’t watch that kind of talk. I just didn’t appreciate that. I didn’t want to hear that because I felt extremely isolated and offended by that and uncomfortable. It seemed so wrong and hurtful. Then at my own workplace with job, with the trainings and everything going on in the world and they started having these conversations and picking up those programs from the television that were so popular, such as the one that I mentioned. And showing that, having us watched that, and I looked around the room and there were only two Caucasian people there. And we both looked at each other like, “Oh my gosh”, like seriously, like, why are we sitting here being subjected to this talk? You know, I’m not saying there weren’t any good points because there were some good points, but it was very isolating and it was very uncomfortable because it was also talking about our whiteness being used as a weapon. So it’s just like seeing my skin color, just walking around is a weapon. And that was just horrible.

LYDIA: Used as a weapon? What was the context for that?

DEANNA: It seemed like it was, just being white. You can use that at any time to wield power or get what you want or whatever. And I’ve never felt like that. And I think that’s so horrible. I just don’t see how anybody could not see that as an incredibly racist remark. You know?

LYDIA: So, and this was at work to see those videos?

DEANNA: This was at work.

LYDIA: Okay. And, you know, to your point about it being reverse racism, you know, I think of Dr. King’s, I Have a Dream speech and he said his dream was to have his kids be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Right? And when we see people, obviously the first thing we see is their skin color. But it takes time to understand and get to know their character. And when I think about the history of this country, I realized that the way that it was set up, it was color coded in a sense. Where certain people who had certain colors, you know, they felt in the caste system, different positions in the caste system. Right? And we see that throughout history people with less melanin in their skin or who have white skin, as they say, they were in the dominant caste in the caste system. And when they’re in the dominant cast then the idea is that they get more power. They’re able to use that position. The problem with having a caste system though, because it’s in so many different cultures, it’s not just America. I know my family’s from Uganda and they definitely had a caste system there. We know of the caste system in India. They also had them in South America. So it’s a global phenomenon, right? This whole issue of caste.

So, but the problem with it is that when we create these hierarchies, it’s based on the lie that some people are better than others, which is a lie because at the end of the day, when we all get to know each other, we realize that we’re all the same. We all have the same needs. We all have hopes and dreams. But that’s, that is the unfortunate part of a caste system, but it’s a reality, you know?

Even though maybe they did away with these other parts like slavery and some of the other laws, there’s still elements of that caste system. But this idea that when people are in the dominant caste, there’s this spirit associated with , that position. A Spirit of dominance of like arrogance, that those people enjoy a certain luxury in being in that position. And they’re looking down on that. But the problem with that associating color with that, is that people who are born into that position, they may not agree with the tenants of the caste system. They may not have that spirit, right. Their character may be totally different.

And so, I think when I hear that statement from those videos, that whiteness is used as a weapon. It’s the idea of that, that spirit, the spirit of dominance, they’re associating that with their skin color, which is associated with that position in the caste system. But you can’t associate that because then it can turn into prejudice to your point. Because if you see somebody with white skin, you automatically believe that they have that spirit, which is not true. I’ve had so many people throughout my life who are white and who are the most humble people who have helped me, who have loved me. So I think it’s, it’s unfair to just assume that people have that spirit. Right? So I’d love to hear more of your thoughts and how can we balance your view? Like, what would you have preferred to hear in that setting at work?

DEANNA: I’m not really sure. I’ve never thought about that. I guess I felt initially, like, this is not the place for this. I mean, the world had all this, still does, has all this craziness happening. And a lot of political stuff is tied into a lot of this. And I felt like that the workplace was not the place to start regurgitating all of these sayings. I just felt like it was kind of being forced fed to make it different. Maybe bringing it up, what’s going on in the world and you know, having a discussion. Asking people, how do they cope with what’s going on? You know how can we support each other emotionally, you know? Some resources for how to cope with it, you know? Something like that, keeping everybody safe, keeping everybody feeling like there’s this togetherness with what’s happening and how we can support each other.

At least at my job with the group of people that I work with to my knowledge, and also even talking to other people that I work with, we weren’t experiencing this racism between each other. Like we weren’t going through that. And it was kind of like creating an issue where there wasn’t an issue within our workplace. So I feel like, bring up what’s going on in the world and just kind of support each other and try to convey that we are all here for each other and how to cope because there’s so much going on. So emotionally people are really distraught. They’re hurting, they’re angry. They’re sad., I felt like with my job and maybe even with others probably so, that they were going the easy route. Like they felt they had to address it because everybody was kind of like, Oh, you know, “We’re not racist.”

Everybody needs to address it. What was the most popular videos then, you know, what was on the news then? Like who was the athlete or the Hollywood person that was having a discussion and they just, they just grabbed that and they just threw it on. And it was just kind of like winking at each other, “we’re all good people”. And it was not genuine, it would have been much more genuine to do it the other way.

LYDIA: Right. I like that. So a much more hands-on approach to really understand what the issues were, if there are any, because if you ask that question, any of the issues kind of would rise to the top. Hopefully if you create a safe space for people to talk.

DEANNA: Right. As individuals, I work in a really, really big company, but I work with a smaller group of people to where we all know each other’s name. We all know where each other lives. Do you know what I mean? So we could have easily addressed it in our small group in a more personal way, like, Oh, Lydia, I know you live downtown or close to downtown, you know what I mean? How are you doing? You know something like that, rather than just saying like, Oh, there’s black, there’s white, there’s issues, they’re against the odds and we’re making sure that our workplace is not against each other. And so therefore, you’re going to watch this and we’re going to tell you what you should be thinking about yourself. We’re going to tell you how you should be responding to each other. It wasn’t personal. It didn’t feel genuine.

LYDIA: Awesome. Yeah. Well, that is some great feedback. And DeAnna, I’ve learned so much from you from this session, so thank you for your time. Thank you for joining.

DEANNA: Thank you, Lydia.

Do you have a similar story? Text me at my community number at (312) 847–3352, to share your story and join the Suubi People Community. Thank you for tuning in and join us in the next episode of The Color Within.