Too Cool For School Too: The Interviews
By: Detroit Democratic Socialists Of America
Tags: Socialism, Detroit Public Schools, Dsa, Detroit, Education

by Ken Jackson

These interviews are one-half of a two-part series on the American education system.

Art by the author

After receiving a BA in English Literature from Michigan State University with a small handful of other Detroit Public Schools graduates, I returned to my community in 2010 as a volunteer for Michigan Americorps Partnership program. I served as an adult education tutor and teacher through Dominican Literacy Center, which was on Harper at the time.

Ten years later, I found myself in what would have been a room with other school teachers, all members of DSA. In the fall of 2020, however, this conversation was a chat during a Zoom conference. One participant was a Detroit Public Schools teacher who urged me to come back to the classroom, the other two were teachers at schools in Dearborn.

The conversation came naturally, maybe because we recognize our own. You already know my story, but here’s theirs:

“So, I heard you were from Scranton, PA?” I said to the Detroit-Public-Schools-Teacher-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named, but we’ll call them C, for now. “I used to live in Lancaster.”

C: “Yep, born and raised. I moved when I was 5.”

Imagine me turning to the other two, the teachers from Dearborn. “What about you guys?”

A said: “I was born in Jackson, Michigan and raised in Manchester.”

B followed: “I was born in Lebanon, raised in Dearborn, but spent a lot of time growing up in Farmington Hills and Florida.”

Intrigued, I dug deeper…curious to see if any of us had the same experiences with the public education system in Michigan. “So, what were your school years like? How’d you guys get into teaching?”

C: “School was generally exciting for me as a kid. I loved the school. Partially because my dad was a teacher and I was raised to like it and partially because until about middle school almost everyone loves school across the board. I actually set out to specifically NOT become a teacher because my dad is a teacher. But, during college, I did after-school programming to supplement my other jobs and it was the only work I actually enjoyed. Then I started subbing once I had enough credits, because it paid better, and eventually I talked myself into teaching. Don’t get me wrong, I love teaching, but I’m not your typical ‘I’ve known since Ms. Johnson’s 3rd grade class that someday….’ kind of teacher.”

A: “School was very small, all white and lower/middle class. I craved more diversity and open-minded people in my community and was very happy to move on after graduation. I did feel a sense of security and safety in a small town. I decided to become a teacher after a career in corporate America. I decided one way to help the world be a better place and to have a career that wasn’t soul-sucking is to become a teacher. I want to inspire students through music. I did not want to become a teacher until after college and experience in ‘the real world’ led me to think of it as a good career path.”

Somehow, we all arrived at socialism, so I had to ask, “At what point did you begin to question the capitalist system?”

A: “High school.”

B: “It’s pretty easy to begin questioning it once you’ve student-taught in a highly affluent community and then spent your whole career teaching in a working class neighborhood. The issues affecting our schools have little to do with what’s going on inside the classroom, and much to do with the socioeconomic circumstances our students and their families deal with every single day. Poverty is a policy choice — a choice that unfettered capitalism relies upon.”

C: “Very early on. I was raised by a somewhat Marxist single dad. I think everyone finds how to process their first memorable interactions with power, hierarchy, capitalism, oppression (or lack thereof) etc. I think I got the lucky break of having someone in my life that provided names for those phenomena. My dad gave me the gift of language for understanding the material conditions of the world that confounded me as a working class kid wondering why I didn’t get to have nice things.”

“Where did you first gain your political education? How did that evolve into the work you are doing now?”

B: “I studied political science in college, but it wasn’t until I began my teaching career and started reading books by folks like Diane Ravitch that I began to understand just how intimately political decisions affect our everyday lives. For example: when I started teaching I was blown away when I noticed that every single student was required to take the ACT. When I was in school, it was optional. What was the justification for a political decision like this? Once you do even the most rudimentary research, you begin to notice the fault lines in our education system — faults that are very deliberate in nature.”

A: “I gained my first political education through my involvement in the punk scene and playing in punk bands. The punk ethos generally follows that of an anarchist. I also attended an anti-KKK rally in high school and got tear-gassed by the police. That was eye-opening.”

C: “Again kinda my Marxist dad. The education I got at home definitely made me into the socialist I am today and specifically made me interested in socialist educators (Freire, Korton, etc).”

“Do you feel that history of revolutionaries is being censored from the public education curriculum?”

A: “It depends on the teacher. There isn’t much mandated curriculum for social studies so teachers get to incorporate what figures they see fit (I think, I’m a music teacher so this isn’t my area of specialty).”

C: “Of course it is. Revolutionaries or leaders of our class are hardly ever mentioned in the established curriculums, and when they are it’s in a liberal way of “two sides-ism” that contrasts them against those they fought against with false moral equivalencies. Case and point the liberal erasure of MLK’s radicalism.”

“Is capitalist/consumer culture reinforced in the public education system? How so? (Are kids still wearing uniforms in public school?)”

A: “Kids do not wear uniforms in my public school but I know it’s a thing in some (I’ve seen it in DPSCD). Capitalism is taught as the ‘best system’ historically. Ed tech companies are constantly soliciting teachers with sales pitches to provide them with a silver bullet to improve education and behavior outcomes.”

C: “Yes, definitely. Uniforms, bell schedules, language policing, behavior policing, factory atmosphere, school pride, etc. Not that all of these functions are deplorable but they serve a purpose. It’s no secret that public schooling has a dual legacy of its capacity for liberation and its capacity for control. That struggle to define education as liberatory is ongoing. I do think that most kids hone their skills for resistance at school, though, and that deserves more celebration. (Check on the ‘bad’ and ‘weird’ kids in your life. They are often revolutionaries or reactionaries in training.)”

“How do the students play a role in reinforcing capitalist values? What role do the teachers and administration play?”

C: “School is a lot of things but it can often feel like a game. Kids that are good at the game usually reinforce and uphold the status quo (brown-nosers, teacher’s pets, etc.). Teachers are the same. Of course, as rank-and-file workers all teachers share a certain class position but just like everywhere else under capitalism, there are teachers that organize and fight for themselves, their students and their communities and then there are those that snitch on us to middle management.”

A: “Capitalism is reinforced by students trying to have the coolest clothes and tech at all times and constantly competing with each other. Teachers reinforce the idea that ‘if you work hard you will be successful’ rather than the honest truth of systemic racism and classism that exists in America. They also reinforce top-down power structures and suppress student voice.”

“Has anything stopped you from pushing a socialist curriculum in your classes? Why is it important to present an objective, balanced lesson plan for youth to engage with politics? How do you address political issues in the classroom?”

B: “My job as a social studies educator isn’t to push a particular curriculum. My job is to present students with evidence from a variety of sources, and allow them to draw their own conclusions. Whether it’s writing, speaking, or some other mode of delivery, I want to help students gain the confidence necessary to engage with issues and topics they think are important in a meaningful way. I try to address political issues in my class in a way that cuts through partisan lines and empowers students to harness their ability to construct an argument. It’s also very important that I help students understand that they can make a difference in our political system. There are ways for them to get involved today and there are plenty of historical anecdotes that can help guide them. The youth are our future and our right now — we are just here to help them realize their power.”

“What would be the ideal education plan or curriculum in the public education system? How have you implemented this idea in your own classroom?”

A: “Ideally students are able to work at their ability level rather than being lumped into a grade based on age. Students should be able to choose a curriculum that they are interested in and is based in real-world content. I do a LOT of differentiation based on students’ ability and I create many opportunities for students to engage and perform with their community. I allow students to be a critical part of the decision-making process and provide a safe space for them to dissent and share opinions.”

“What is the best way to make education more accessible to the common citizen?”

B: “The best way to do it is to begin by valuing the dignity of every single human life — something our current capitalist model does not do. The fact that we have homeless students is a policy failure. The fact that we have students and families who are starving is a policy failure. The fact that we judge teachers and schools by test scores that just measure privilege is a policy failure. The fact that aspiring teachers often have to take on a mountain of debt to enter the profession is a policy failure. The fact that our schools are as segregated as they were decades ago is a policy failure. If we want to make education more accessible, it begins by fighting for policies that make it possible for everyone to lead a life of dignity.”

C: “Make it free. Make it walkable. Make it relevant. Make it the site of community care (medical, nutritional, social). Public schools are actually good. Fund them. Support them. Open more of them. Root them in their communities. Hire staff that remember being students at that school. Give that community democratic control of its school system.”

A: “High quality, equitable education should be a right for all students regardless of their zip code. A progressive tax code where the wealthy contribute more and schools with higher needs receive more funding would be a good start. We need to elevate public schools as a critical component of our communities and drastically reduce the number of charter school offerings. We need quality teachers that have a healthy work/life balance. This means teachers that are paid more, have access to needed resources and are treated like professionals. Teachers should have a seat at the table whenever decisions are being made. Schools need to eliminate their police forces and replace those positions with additional social workers, special ed. services, nurses and parapros.”

“Do you think the competitive nature of academics in the U.S. would hinder the educator’s ability to implement socio-political change from the classroom? Does it inform the student on the reality of the system they must learn to live in?”

A: “I think some competition is good but it is helpful to teach children that there’s not an even playing field and be realistic regarding the path forward and the obstacles some populations will have to face that others will not. I do not agree with the competitive nature of ‘let the market decide’ which schools thrive in our communities. Public schools should be supported and funded as the critical pillars of our community that they are.”

C: “Hmmmm, I’m not entirely anti-competition in an interpersonal sense. I don’t think Marxists should necessarily hate all competition. Of course the standardized testing regime is the notable awful exception.”

“How have you adapted to the new environment of being an educator during the pandemic? Do you feel that education is accessible to everyone? How are students who cannot afford or access virtual learning being affected? What have been the efforts of educators to ensure that all of their students will be able to learn unhindered?”

A: “The landscape is challenging and always changing! I feel that education is accessible to everyone but students who have Internet connection problems, are responsible for child care or are living in an abusive home environment certainly have a huge barrier preventing them from making education their main priority. Also the quality of education varies greatly depending on your zipcode. Educators have worked to ensure students will be able to learn unhindered by constantly connecting with students and parents to ensure students have all they need to complete their work. Teachers may stop by a student’s home to do a wellness check or drop off needed supplies. Districts have partnered with private companies to provide free hot spots and computers to students that need them. Teachers have been flexible, understanding and focusing on the social-emotional well-being of students during this trying time. Teachers have also been working day and night to learn new technology platforms, retool their curriculum to an online format and find resources and strategies that work for students.”

C: “In short, the pandemic has taken all of the inequity, disinvestment, and destruction and spilled it outside the walls of the school into teachers’ and families’ and students’ homes. It’s on full display. The problems of access, neoliberal policy, school-to-prison, etc. are not new; they are just highlighted during this.”

As the night came to an end, we all logged out of our Zoom meeting and prepared for the school days ahead…