When the Saints Go Marching in
By: Nathaniel Turner
Tags: Saints And Sinners, Catholicism, Prayer, Protestantism, Veneration Of The Saints

God creates out of nothing, wonderful, you say: yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners.

— Søren Kierkegaard, trans. Alexander Dru (emphasis original) But they who with confidence endured [these things] are now heirs of glory and honour, and have been exalted and made illustrious by God in their memorial for ever and ever. Amen. Such examples, therefore, brethren, it is right that we should follow; since it is written,¹ “Cleave to the holy, for those that cleave to them shall [themselves] be made holy.”

— First Letter of Pope St. Clement I to the Corinthians between AD 95 and 97, trans. John Keith With the loyal you show yourself loyal;

with the blameless you show yourself blameless;

with the pure you show yourself pure;

and with the crooked you show yourself perverse.

— Psalm 18:25–26, NRSVCE

Among low-church² Protestants, there are two — no, three — no, probably more, but I’m going to tackle only three — three major arguments made against the Catholic view of the saints. It’s really kind of two and the second point spills into a third which might spill into a fourth, but we’re going to try to stay focused here.

The Forerunners of Christ with Saints and Martyrs, Fra Angelico (1420s). Public domain.

Argument 1: The “Saints” Are Just Christians

In the first place, I used to say, Scripture uses “the saints” to refer to all Christians, not just the dead in heaven. This is plainly evident in Acts 9:13, 32, 41; 26:10; Romans 8:27; 12:13; 15:25–26; 16:2, 15; 1 Corinthians 6:1–2; 14:33; 16:1, 15; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 8:4; 9:1, 12; 13:12; Ephesians 1:1, 15; 3:8; 4:12; 6:18; Philippians 1:1; 4:21–22; Colossians 1:2, 4, 26; 2 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Timothy 5:10; Philemon 1:5, 7; Hebrews 6:10; 13:24; Jude 1:3; Revelation 13:7, 10; 22:21.

But you know where it’s less evident? In Scripture. Specifically, in Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:18; 2:19; 5:3; Colossians 1:11–12; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Revelation 14:12; 18:20; 19:8. Sure, it’s fewer verses, but I really only need one to point out that use of the term is not universally consistent. The word itself means “holy” or “sacred” (it’s translated “holy” in the passage above by the fourth pope), not merely “Christian” or even “faithful,” so that’s strike one against it being synonymous with “believer.”

These passages point out what we already know quite intuitively: we are not already saints. We are “called to be saints” (Romans and 1 Corinthians) with a “glorious inheritance” to acquire (Ephesians 1), so we may be united with (others who are called) saints (Ephesians 2); all the while we are called to a higher standard of behavior (Ephesians 5). This inheritance belongs to the holy ones in the light, to which we must gain access by God’s grace (Colossians). The saints, too, are those who will return with Jesus when he comes to us again (1 Thessalonians). The saints adhere to righteousness (Revelation 14), though we on earth only strive to do so. They are counted among those in heaven (Revelation 18), and they have done “righteous deeds” (Revelation 19).

So while we are all “saints” (Christians), we are not all “saints” (holy). Both uses of the term were common in the early Church. As time went on, the “holy” usage (technically, the original usage) won out, because we called ourselves Christians and didn’t need euphemisms for it once people stopped killing us all the time.

Argument 2: Veneration Is Idolatry

The second major point I made against “the saints” as a Protestant was this: “You shall fear the Lord your God; him alone you shall worship; to him you shall hold fast, and by his name you shall swear” (Deuteronomy 10:20, NRSVCE). Because, okay, sure, maybe there are some saintly folks in heaven-but that doesn’t mean we should worship them! Talking about “venerating” the saints, “revering” them, and so on — that’s idolatry, plain and simple!

But is that what veneration is? Is it “worship,” which is reserved for God alone? I would say not, and Scripture agrees with me. In the first place, most of our “veneration” is looking to the saints as examples (see the Clement quote above). We want to emulate the saints, and in so doing, emulate Christ (compare 1 Corinthians 4:15–16; 11:1–2; Philippians 3:17; 4:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:6–7; 2 Thessalonians 3:7–9; etc.). We treat them with respect and honor (which is not worship, or else we would not be commanded to do it so often — compare Romans 12:9–10; Ephesians 6:1–3; 1 Timothy 5:3, 17–18; 1 Peter 2:16–17). We consider them paragons of virtue and people to be admired and followed (compare Hebrews 11).

“But what about angels?” you may say, “You venerate angels, too, and Revelation 19:10 clearly says not to do that.”

On the other hand, Joshua 5:13–15 seems to have no trouble with it whatsoever. The angels, like the saints, are faithful to God, obedient to his will, serving and worshiping him always; we should be so blessed as to live as they do. (And, I say in hope, someday we shall, worshiping and praising God in that eternal day.)

There seems to be little in Scripture to suggest that properly due veneration is forbidden, but rather setting people or things at or above God’s place is. The former is appropriate, the latter is idolatry. Catholics do the former and repudiate the latter as much as anyone. We follow the saints only insofar as they lead us to God.

Argument 3: Prayer Is Idolatry

The third argument is really an extension of the second, because it’s about what Catholics frequently do in venerating the saints: prayer. “You can’t pray to the saints!” I said, “Even if you don’t count veneration as worship, prayer must be!”

In a profoundly anticlimactic way, I ask, “Must it?” For Catholics, “praying” doesn’t mean “worship,” but it means “making a request.” We are not worshiping the holy dead, but asking them for their assistance. After all, “the prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective” (James 5:16, NRSVCE) and, “the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer” (1 Peter 3:12, NRSVCE). We know that the saints are in heaven, praising and worshiping God, and so we know that they are righteous; especially in the midst of our sin, their prayer would be effective indeed at getting us the grace and help we need.

This has nothing to do with adding a layer between us and God. Of course we can still pray to God. Catholics have more prayers to God than any other denomination (probably; you know, statistically speaking). This is asking for help from people perfectly willing to offer it. Look at the full text of James 5:16. “Pray for one another.” Consider also Matthew 18:19–20; Romans 15:30–32; 1 Thessalonians 5:25; 1 Timothy 2:1–2; etc. We should pray to God for each other, and we ask each other for prayer. Christians of all denominations submit prayer requests to their local church or Bible study group or Sunday school. We submit these requests because we know that we are one Body in Christ with our fellow believers — but we are also one Body in Christ with all the saints in heaven; why should we not ask for their prayers as well?

Argument 3B (2C?): Dead People Are Dead

Some may say that, defined as a simple request, prayer would be fine — but the holy dead are dead, not alive. That is, even if we were allowed to ask their help, they can’t hear us. The usual citation for this is 1 Samuel 28, when King Saul goes to t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ Endor and consults a medium in order to speak with Samuel, who had already died. Samuel complains, saying, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” (v15) The implication of citing this passage is that, not only are the dead currently dead (or, euphemistically in the New Testament, “asleep”), but they don’t like being otherwise.

The other citation for this is one of the bases for the Rapture, which is a belief I grew up with, but is far from the norm even in Protestant circles. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 (RSV), St. Paul writes:

But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Putting aside the Rapture for now as a topic entirely too large to tackle, let’s focus on the salient point: the non-Catholic interpretation here is that when you die, you sleep until the final judgment, when you are resurrected. As with life, the sleep of death admits no perception and no awareness. Therefore, one may say, the dead cannot hear our requests and cannot do anything about them.

On the contrary, we read in Matthew 22:29–33 (and its parallels Mark 12:24–27 and Luke 20:34–40) that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, and (in Luke), “for to him all of them [the dead] are alive” (NRSV). Matthew 27:52–53 says that some of the dead saints were raised immediately and appeared during the time between Jesus’ resurrection and his ascension. In Luke 23:43, Jesus tells the repentant thief (traditionally named St. Dismas) that today he would be with Christ in paradise. John 5:25–29 tells us that the hour is now here when the dead hear Jesus’ voice and live. In John 11:25–26, Jesus tells Martha that those who die still live, and those who live in him will never die. And Revelation 7:9–17 tells us about those who suffered in this life and are now present with the Father.

As for whether those in heaven can observe the happenings on earth, see Revelation 6, where the martyrs cry out in heaven, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” (v10, NRSV)

Since I’m talking about some of the dead already being resurrected in Christ, there remains one obstacle, but it’s a minor one. We hear from St. Paul to Timothy that there were two false prophets among the faithful in those days, Hymenaeus and Philetus, “who have swerved from the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place” (2 Timothy 2:18, NRSV). But of course this theological position of Hymenaeus, et al, is different from what we propose here, which we can see by context. Hymenaeus is counted among those are led and who lead others into “more and more impiety” (v16) and one who had rejected conscience and thereby been shipwrecked in the faith (1 Timothy 1:19–20). Hymenaeus, then, was teaching that the “resurrection” was a metaphorical one of the spirit, which he had already undergone, permitting him to behave in whatever manner he wanted (i.e., sinfully). This is the early groundwork of the hedonistic branch of dualistic Gnosticism (in contrast with the ascetic branch)³ and has nothing at all to do with the real resurrection of the dead in the Church Triumphant.

So what could St. Paul possibly have meant in 1 Thessalonians 4 if not the long sleep of the dead until the Rapture? Several permissible interpretations remain: he could have been using temporal language where time does not apply (God, being outside time, is not constrained by it in his actions), or he could have been referring to Purgatory (which the Church has always taught as a place of unpleasantness and a sort of spiritual blindness while being cleansed of all sinful attachment to the world), or he could simply have been reassuring the faithful in Thessalonica that the dead were not lost, but would indeed be resurrected, a theological principle he defended frequently in his letters.

As for Samuel’s complaint, this ties into the idea of the gates of heaven being opened at Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. The holy dead of the Old Testament had not yet “heard the voice” of Christ, so they remained asleep; upon his death, he descended to the dead and raised up the holy ones (they “heard his voice” and came to life), opening up the gates of heaven to admit those who had died prior to his coming. Catholics call this event the harrowing of hell. See Ephesians 4:9–10 and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 631–637.