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I can understand your anger about the German audience. I mean, it was the Finnish team they played and they were taking advantage of the ridiculous penalties the Canadien ref called in the last period. The Germans got a match penalty and a 10 minutes misconduct for practically nothing and seconds after that the German goalie got two minutes for "delay of game" for a shot that was deflected and went into the crowd. The resulting 5:3 skating advantage lead to the deciding goal at a point, when the Germans were starting to come up strong. I am also sick of the nationalism that is going on in German sports events. If you watch for example a tennis Davis Cup match the players are often not able to play for minutes, because the crowd is so obnoxious. But I have to admit that this kind of nationalism is as strong or even stronger in most other countries (you should go to the US and watch the way they present the Olympics on television; or the soccer crowds in England; or the Finnish spectators at nordic skiing events.....). I mean it makes me sick to see all this nationalism all over the world and I would rather see the best team/player win and get cheared at. I do not mind if my favorite team looses to somebody that is better or plays more attractive and I have to admit that in most sports the German national site is not my favorite team to watch (the German soccer team is boring to watch, for example). But, reading the above posting, I think that you are on the same level as these crowds you are criticizing. It is easy to talk of (nearly all) Germans as Nazis and nationalists; thats the kind of propaganda that all ultraconservative people use against Germany. It is true that there is a great danger of re-arising nationalism in Germany but from my experience most of the people (at least of the people that i know) also regard this as a big threat and are trying to demonstrate this attitude now. Why can't we just look at people as human beeings and not try to put them into drawers corresponding to their nationality (eg. all Russians are Communists; all Americans are Capitalists; all Germans are Nazis, all Fins are hanging around beeing drunk on ferries...). In my opinion, your comment shows the narrowness of your mind and that you don't seem to be different from the Nazis you are talking about. Thomas

but theology is full of reason even if it is, as we believe, based on false premises etc etc. hold on there: no meaning to "consciousness" or "mind" or "self"?! what illogicality? since when is, for instance, (non-behaviourist) psychology a pipe dream? Surely the major purpose of the science of psychology is to understand the workings of the mind. "manifestations of the mundane" sounds rather transcendental to me. In fact "matter", "energy", "space" and "time" are well measured but mysterious concepts. Does an atheist really have to believe in your reductionism or be cast out as not following the true faith?!

hey folks, I'm fairly new to these groups, tho' some have heard from me before. I'd like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a lot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents? In normal dreams, you can't control anything, so obviously you aren't morally responsible for your actions. But if you can contrive to control the action in dreams or do an OOBE, it seems like a morality applies. Now, there seem to be 3 alternatives: 1) Dreams and OOBEs are totally mental phenomena. In this case no morality applies beyond what might be called 'mental hygiene', that is, not trying to think about anything evil, or indulgining in overly sexy or violent thoughts. 2) Dreams and OOBEs have a reality of their own (i.e. are 'another plane') Evidence for this is that often dreams and OOBEs are sometimes done in common by more than one person. A mark of objective fact is that >1 people report the same objective experience. In this case, the same interpersonal morality/ethics applies in dreams and OOBEs as does in waking life. 3) Like (2), but here we assume that though the dreeam and OOBE environs have a real existence, a different moral/ethics apply there, and no (or maybe different) moral laws apply there. So... There it is. Is one of these cases the truth, or does anyone know of another alternative? respond by post or email. thanks very much *dt* ========================================================

Base Unit 1 Controller All Cables and hookups Games: Kieth Courage Legenary Axe Fantasy Zone Victory Run Wrestling Challenge Blazing Lasers Military Madness Bloody Wolf

[..] Possibly the parallel just stems from your tending to use bad sources... Anyway, don't you think that similarity is rather shallow? You're only looking at the surface, at the way of argumentation. And now you should perhaps go a little deeper and try to find the difference, for example, find out whether you can find real science done by Hitching. If you can't, will you then admit that your attempt at quoting an authority has backfired?

I know nothing about Sun's but replacing pieces of libraries, shared or not, is straight forward on RS/6000's (all releases). Extract the appropriate pierce with ar; rebind the .o; and replace with ar. See Info for details.

From article <1r0mhtINNa59@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>, by dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard): I noticed that too. Special agent (asshole actually) Ricks stated that David Koresh had "explosives that could blow up an armored vehicle 40 feet into the air." It looked like to me that the BDs had plenty of opportunity to use these explosives---provided that they had them in the first place. For example, when one of the tanks was injecting CS gas into the ranch house (yes ranch house; the BDs weren't living in a fortress) they could have easily destroyed or disabled that tank because it was idling there for a considerable length of time. So, why didn't they do this? Could it be that they didn't have any explosives or similar munitions? I just don't buy what the ATF and FBI have been saying. Hopefully, the truth will come out. Here's something noteworthy: after the fire had been burning for some time an explosion occurred---just *one* explosion. The media said that this was some of the explosives that the BDs posessed going off. I don't think this was the case. My brother and I noticed that this so-called "explosion" resembled a plume of propane gas being ignited. We figure that this is what it was because of how the "explosion" looked and sounded. Obviously, it wasn't due to something like TNT, dynamite, or C4. I have seen a propane explosion before...the explosion in the ranch house greatly resembled this. Also, I noticed something that looked like a propane tank in the charred ruble the next day. Isn't it curious that the ATF wasn't very forthcoming about how the four officers got killed? Many weeks had gone by before they stated that some of the officers had been killed and/or wounded by grenades thrown by the BDs. Earlier, when someone asked one of the spokespersons about whether or not an autopsy had been performed on the slain agents, they said that an autopsy had been done but THEY WEREN'T READY TO RELEASE THE FINDINGS. Now why is this? Does the ATF have something to hide? Perhaps those four agents were killed by friendly fire. What is the cause of death exactly? NO ONE HAS EVER SAID WHAT IT IS. What is certain is this: ATF agents *did* throw grenades into the compound. As a matter of fact, Mr. Koresh handed his lawyer a grenade body during one of the lawyer's visits to the compound. Later on the lawyer gave the grenade body (I don't know if it was a dud or a spent one btw) to the ATF. How much do you want to bet that this grenade will mysteriously disappear? At this point in time the only people we know who had grenades was the ATF agents. Wouldn't it be a shocker if the no one ever found any evidence of grenades, rockets, or explosives in the rubble? The ATF would sure have egg on their face then. Note that the ATF is doing the *initial* sweep of the rubble. The FBI and the Texas Rangers won't investigate until the ATF is done. This looks like a perfect opportunity for the ATF to make sure that others "find" what they want for them to "find" if you know what I mean. I'm probably being a little paranoid here but if I am I have could reason to be. Recall that several weeks had gone by before anyone said that the BDs had used grenades. Also recall that early on the ATF had *denied* that their agents used grenades on the BDs. Someone is lying here. Scott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot

I is a strong deterent to the teens that are executed. They won't do that again! This policy cuts way down on repeat offenders. Please do not flame me - I don't agree with capital punishment for teen's. They are also unsupervised. With proper supervision, they would not be throwing rocks. If parents cannot provide the minimal supervision needed to stop this activity, they should not be allowed to have children :-) Notice the smiley ;-)

4. Annex Gaza to Egypt. 5. Annex Gaza to Israel 6. Maintain the status quo. 7. Partition Gaza into a Jewish and an Arab state. I don't necisarily support any of these, I just felt like pointing out there are way more than three solutions. Next time, maybe we'll see some research into them.... Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu

From psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) on rec.martial-arts... >I'm sure such weapons have been developed. Our society does not, >however, condone their possession or use. Actually, Joe, I wrote the above. Peter was responding to my article. I'm actually rather confused by your post. I suppose I didn't make myself clear, cause you seem to have gotten exactly the opposite impression from what I intended. I suppose "the authorities" might have been a better term than "society". Carry and use a firearm in many parts of the country (certainly the parts I live in), and expect, at the very least, to have an awful lot of explaining to do. And there is also appears to be a trend in society at large that actively opposes what many see as their right to defend themselves. In a few other parts of our society, handguns are banned or so restricted as to be practically unavailable to the law- abiding citizen for self-defense outside the home. Funny, though, how the criminals in such places continue to have a lush supply of guns and no compunctions about using them. IMHO, you don't need to be either a political philosopher or a crime victim to realize that there's a flaw in the gun- grabbers' logic. Agreed. You're welcome to your HO, too, the First Amendment being as important as the Second, but please don't let your obvious good intentions be subverted by insupportable generalities about something as big and diverse as US society. My only intention was to comment that the existence of suitable weapons of self defense doesn't mean you'll escape a whole shitload of trouble should you be forced to use them. Or by the naive hope that making gun possession a crime will give pause to someone who would be a criminal anyway. I made no such statements, nor do I have such a naive hope or outlook. Wishing you peace and the wherewithal to defend yourself if others' thoughts are not that kindly, That's all I want: the opportunity to leave in peace, or to have the means to defend myself when that in not possible. I *think* we agree on this issue. I guess my position didn't survive the transition from cognition to ASCII.

News: ===== For the first time all season, the Flames are now injury-free. The only player remaining on the limp is center Carey Wilson who, even when healthy, is not a major part of the team. Trent Yawney did not score a goal all season until the last regular season game against San Jose. He potted his first of the year in that game, and has also scored goals in both Game 1 and Game 2 against Los Angeles. Thoughts on Game 1: ================== The Flames played horribly in dropping the first game of their series with Los Angeles 6-3 on Sunday afternoon. They seemed more interested in throwing big hits than in scoring goals. They physically dominated the Kings, but that was the only area they dominated in. The game plan was to rush the net and try and take advantage of a young, inexperienced L.A. defence and the shaky Kings goaltending, but those plans fell by the wayside while the Flames conducted a steady march to the penalty box. Particularily stupid was Theoren Fleury taking a five minute major and a game misconduct for slamming Warren Rychel's face into the dasher while Rychel was on his knees. Goaltender Mike Vernon played well and could not really be faulted for the loss, despite his well-publicized poor record in afternoon games. He got very little support from his defence in clearing the front of the net and sweeping away rebounds. In fact, Marty McSorley's goal actually went in off Chris Dahlquist's skate in front of the net. Thoughts on Game 2: ================== The Flames came back strong in the second game, evidently aware of the potentially fatal consequences of losing both the first two games on home ice. The first period was fairly even, with the edge going to the Kings. But Calgary came out strong in the second period and simply dominated the Kings, scoring five goals to take a lead they never relinquished en route to a 9-4 win. The deciding factors in this game were faceoffs and special teams. Calgary dominated on faceoffs as they did in Game 1, but they were able to make better use of the won faceoffs in this game than they did in the first one. Calgary also went 3-for-5 on the powerplay while L.A. only went 1-for-8 and gave up a shorthanded goal to Joel Otto. L.A.'s powerplay goal also came late in the game with the outcome already decided. The Kings' powerplay failed them when they needed it most, in the 1st and 2nd periods. The Flames lost RW Greg Paslawski with a suspected shoulder injury when he was leveled by Alexei Zhitnik right after scoring Calgary's 7th goal. Charlie Huddy left the game for the Kings with a groin injury. The game was marred by stupidity in the last minute. First, Craig Berube of Calgary took a five-minute major for fighting plus a game misconduct for instigating when he went after Tony Granato for no apparent reason. Granato drew a minor for some strange reason. (Turtling perhaps). This was followed 30 seconds later by Warren Rychel drawing a major, minor, and game misconduct for hitting Frank Musil in the face with his stick and then instigating a fight. Musil got a fighting major for some similarily strange reason. Hardy and Yawney went toe-to-toe and both got double minors. (Gregson thought that Musil turtling amounted to fighting, but that Yawney and Hardy throwing punches at each other was just roughing? Where's this guy from.....) Upcoming games: ============== Friday April 23, at L.A. Sunday April 25, at L.A. Tuesday April 27, home to L.A. Thursday April 29, at L.A. (if necessary) Saturday May 1, home to L.A. (if necessary) Injuries: ======== C Carey Wilson, indefinite with recurring knee injuries (Dec 10) 1992-93 Calgary Flames final regular season statistics. ======================================================== # Pos. Name GP G A Pts +/- PIM =============================================================================== 14 RW Theoren Fleury 83 34 66 100 +14 88 26 C Robert Reichel 80 40 48 88 +25 54 20 D Gary Suter 81 23 58 81 -1 112 10 LW Gary Roberts 58 38 41 79 +32 172 25 C Joe Nieuwendyk 79 38 37 75 +9 52 42 RW Sergei Makarov 71 18 39 57 0 40 2 D Al MacInnis 50 11 43 54 +15 61 29 C Joel Otto 75 19 33 54 +2 150 28 LW Paul Ranheim 83 21 22 43 -4 26 23 RW Greg Paslawski 73 18 24 42 +3 12 22 RW Ron Stern 70 10 15 25 +4 207 15 LW Brent Ashton 58 10 13 23 +11 52 11 LW Chris Lindberg 62 9 12 21 -3 18 34 D Roger Johansson 77 4 16 20 +13 62 18 D Trent Yawney 63 1 16 17 +9 67 3 D Frank Musil 80 6 10 16 +28 131 39 C Brian Skrudland 39 7 7 14 +4 65 16 LW Craig Berube 77 4 8 12 -6 209 7 D Michel Petit 35 3 9 12 -5 54 4 D Kevin Dahl 61 2 9 11 +9 56 33 C Carey Wilson (I) 22 4 7 11 +10 8 5 D Chris Dahlquist 74 3 7 10 0 66 21 D Alexander Godynyuk 27 3 4 7 +6 19 19 RW Todd Harkins 15 2 3 5 -4 22 12 LW Paul Kruse 27 2 3 5 +2 41 35 G Jeff Reese 26 0 4 4 0 4 6 D Greg Smyth 35 1 2 3 +2 95 30 G Mike Vernon 64 0 2 2 0 42 27 RW Thomas Forslund 6 0 2 2 0 0 ?? C Shawn Heaphy 1 0 0 0 0 2 ?? LW Patrick Lebeau 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 G Andrei Trefilov 1 0 0 0 0 2

I have recently purchased a PB170 and have no more use for my RasterOps 8XL. It has been a great card. I should have traded it with my IIci, but I forgot. My forgetfulness si your gain. Great 8 bit video that supports: 640x480 (Apple 13"/14") 640x870 (Apple Portrait) 800x600 (Silly DOS monitor resolution) 1024x768 (60hz & 75hz) 1152x870 (Apple 21") Has hardware Pan & Zoom and supports virtual desktops up to the size of 2 Newspaper pages. Includes standard Apple monitor cable or card to BNC, you choose. I am asking $250 (it's still advertised in MacWorld for up to $499). Completely negotiable. I can get a monitor and sell the pair. I will accept offers for software or PowerBook accessory trades. Make an offer.

FWB distributes HDT Personal Edition (HDT = Hard Drive Toolkit), which is what I own. This is less fancy than the "full" version, but good enough for what you and I want to do. Casa Blanca offers Drive7, but I'm not that familiar with it. I *think* that both Drive7 and HDT PE can be had for around US$50. I've used Silverlinging at work (v 5.42??), and I like HDT PE much better. IMHO it has a better interface, and easier to understand. Any Drive7 users?

I too am of the same sentiment Bart, but realistically, this town DOESN'T WANT TO pay for quality player and hence we are loosing these people left, right and center. Labour is also responsible for their boycott Pocklington movement. I would like the Oilers to stay, but realistically, given this situation, it's bye-bye Oilers.

Hello Xperts out there. I've just built X11R5 for SunOS 4.1.1/SPARC. I have gcc-2.2 and I'd like to use its 64-bit capability to generate an X11 release which will render to the frame buffer using store-double (64-bit) machine code. Can anyone tell me which directories/source files/ compiler switches to begin with? thanks in advance

Hi, I have been told by a local sales that Asante has come out with this LCIII PDS Ethernet adapter with an optional 68882 socket on the board. My question is will the FPU performance degrade will I put the 68882 on the PDS card socket instead of on the motherboard itself? Intuitively, the math co-processor should always be placed close to the CPU, but I am not sure how good Apple's so-called processor-direct slot is when it comes to throughout. Does anyone know the answer to this or have any experience with the Asante LCIII Ethernet adapter? Thanks in advance. From what I've heard the PDS slot clock is only 16MHz, to be compatible with the old LC style boards, while the FPU socket close to the CPU is clocked at 25MHz. I guess a board designed for the LCIII can get a 25MHz clock from the extended PDS socket...

I looked back at this, and asked some questions of various people and got the following information which I had claimed and you pooh-poohed. The US has not sold Iraq any arms. Their navy is entirely made of F-USSR vessels. Their airforce (not including stuff captured from Kuwait which I am not as sure about), doesn't include any US equipment. Their missiles are all non-US. Their tanks are almost all soviet, with about 100 French tanks (older ones). The only US stuff in the Iraqi arsenal is a few M113s. Those were not sold to Iraq. Iraq captured them from other countries (like Kuwait). Information is hard to prove. You are claiming that the US sold information? Prove it. Now, how did the US build up Iraq again? I just gave some fairly conclusive evidence that the US didn't sell arms to Iraq. Information is hard to prove, almost certainly if the US did sell information, then that fact is classified, and you can't prove it. If you can provide some useful evidence that the US sold arms or valuable intelligence to Iraq, I am very interested, but not if you just make claims based on what "everyone knows".

Spring break, I went through the four corners area and back. The most beautiful stop I made was in Utah at the Needles Overlook. Though this is a bit further east than where you appear to be going, I highly recommend it. IMHO it is far more beautiful than the Grand Canyon. It was not well marked, but was one of few paved roads off of US191 (I was heading north from Monticello). In order to get to the right place, I should clarify that it is the Needles OVERLOOK, and not the recreation area. Heading north from Monticello, it is the second turnoff, and may have been marked as the Anticline Overlook. Anticline overlook is about 20 (dirt, if this matters to you) miles past the Needles overlook. The road out to the overlook is paved and reasonably maintained (I ran it about 70mph). Looking out from the overlook was like being God and looking down on the world. If it isn't too far out of your way, you should see it.

only (to was mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

Yes it invokes the associated application. That takes but 10 seconds?

: Hi All, : Would anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an : authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that : is used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki? : Thanks, I have a receipe at home that was posted to me by one of our fellow netters about a month ago. I am recalling this from memory but I think I'm fairly close (by the way it was GREAT!) 1 pint of plain yogurt 1/2 med. sized cucumber finely shredded 3 cloves of garlic (more or less by taste) 1/4 tsp dill weed The yogurt is dumped into a strainer lined with a coffee filter and allowed to drain at least 2 hours (you can adjust the consistancy of the sauce by increasing this time up to 24 hours) The shredded cuc is drained the same way Mix it all together and let it steep for at least 2 hours (it's better the next day) and enjoy!

Um... they've sold the Cray. They realised that spending two years on numbercrunching the finite stress analysis figures for the complex injection-molded cases was not the way to go, and was holding up development work. Especially when the first FEA model for the portable left out the battery cover, and it had to be redone. That's why the portable was about three years late. Designing metal cases is easier - they're managing with the Calculator DA, now it can compute 45/100-0.45 correctly. Any other suggestions?

Has anyone noticed that all this happened since Chris Perez was gifted with a membership? Anyone for rec.motorcycles.beemer.club.whiner? I know this might get confused with K-whiners, but maybe there's a connection?

Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew of an interface to od ( octal dump ), I assume it would be called xod. Actually, any viewer for a core file will do. I looked at export ( @ mit ) in the index of /contrib, but didn't find anything relevant.

No, what it means is that I, like a majority of environmental scientists/researchers, agree that El Nino/La Nina and the Southern Oscillations are the systems involoved in that climatic phenomena categorized by humans as a drought(1988). Furthermore, in response to an earlier message, the 1992 U.S. est. output of sulfur dioxide (20 mill. tons) was equivalent to the entire output by the recent eruption of Mt. Pinautubo(Sp.). Currently world carbon dioxide levels set at approx. 360 ppm, in the past 120,000 years it has never gone above 280 (this info was found using ice core samples from the joint French/Russian/U.S. Vostok project). Furthermore, the background emmisions of chlorine compounds into the atmoshpere is about 0.6 ppb annually, it now sits at 3.5. This OVERWHELMING data/info is found in the World Resources doc. published by Oxford University. The ozone hole in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres keeps getting bigger and stickin' around longer whilst skeptics ponder how wrong or corrupt all this data from government and international scientific institutions is. It is a pity, that, if the skeptics are wrong and we base our complacency on their Limbaugh psycho babble, then we will find ourselves strapped by limited options with which to rectify the primal engineering of our industrial age.

A search for illegally held weapons (IF there were any, no evidence yet produced to this effect) does not justify firing into a house with women and children, either. It also does not justify shooting first without identifying oneself (the ATF and FBI have done this before, so don't say they haven't, please) or producing a warrant. Guess it depends on whose story one believes, huh? Which "others" are we talking about here? "Sub lethal"? Excuse me, but those people are dead!!! Evidence? So far the FBI has produced none. Don't hold your breath. Only a few of those being held in chains and s(hackles are wanted . The rest are being held for the crime of being "material witnesses". It was not the Feds decision to make, but the firefighters. This is true of ANY answer to a call for help from a fire department by ANY citizen. Since fire departments do answer calls that "deprive resources that might be needed elsewhere" it is not a valid reason for not calling them. Further, since the Davidians had not been found guilty of any crime in a court of law, they are subject to the same protection as any other citizen. And las far as I know, even criminals in prison are not left to burn to death in a fire. I guess this is a matter of religious faith with you? The government says it, so it must be so? Or haven't you been reading this thread well enough to notice that some of us here don't beleive their story? Patients in psychiatric hospitals are not left to die in fires, either. Besides, as I explained, some of us here believe their distress might have been genuine. Are you SO certain it wasn't? There is no evidence that the Davidians committed human sacrifice either before of after the initial raid. And self-defense is not murder. He did not say it was deliberate. Accidents do not require conspiracy theories, only wanton disregard for human life. The initial raid alone (agents firing blind into walls against all standards of law enforce- ment procedure) proves they did not mind killing people. No one here is "supporting Koresh". We are opposing the illegal use of excessive violence by our government against our citizens. That is all. A society that believes it is OK to terrorize people for their religious views will destroy itself in due time. It is the feds who disrupted the "fabric of society" in Waco, not Koresh. It is the feds who forced a nightmare onto the people of Mount Carmel. On what basis do you assume we haven't? Don't you really mean "It would be a good thing if people drew the same conclusions from history that I do?" :-) "Militant" implies acts of aggression against one's neighbors. The Davidians left their neighbors alone. .religious heretics who left to set up such a community So what? The Mormons were considered a "cult" for years, and were chased out of one place after another on much the same thinking as you are advocating. When they finally got to "set up a community" they left people alone. So far Americans haven't been put to the sword by Mormon hordes crying to avenge Joseph Smith. :-) It doesn't mean they won't either. Anyway, the whole purpose of a system of laws is to punish people for what they DO, not what they MIGHT do. "Telling" is not the same as "forcing". When the police knock at my door, I cannot make them go away by changing the channeI. As for Pat and friends, I don't even WATCH their channel, since I am an atheist. So far, not watching them tell me what to do hasn't gotten me killed :-) Right now, the only people sticking guns in anyone's faces is the government. And they are trying very hard to run my life. Or haven't you noticed? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, yeah. This is a fine place. We haven't had the "why does concrete kill lead-acid batteries" thread in at least six months. The concrete simply sucks all the electrons out of the battery and drains them into the ground. Another explanation, implausible as it is, is that the lead-acid battery needs to be periodically charged (topped-off), otherwise the battery self-discharges and then undergoes irreversible chemical reaction. Naawwwww.... the concrete sucks the life out.

(deletion) Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism. The point is that theism is *a* factor. That's a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the field of theism, the leaders believe what they say. That's a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is, there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism. Gullibility, by the way, is one of them. And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer. That's bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed. Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics and mathematics are therfore circular. I've been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions of god here. An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems out of which they are usually derived. "I exist" is derived, if you want it that way. Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms. what is it you are trying to say? Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or the way the world works. Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed) says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can have interesting effects.

>If this idea goes through, it's the thin end of the wedge. Soon >companies will be doing larger, and more permanant, billboards in the >sky. I wouldn't want a world a few decades from now when the sky >looks like Las Vegas. That would _really_ make me sad. Think for a moment about the technology required to do that. By the time they could make the Earth's sky look like Las Vegas, the people could afford to go backpacking on the Moon. Round trip costs for 500 kg to the Moon would be about the same as 5000 kg in a Low Earth "advertising" orbit: Very roughly the same cost as a smallish billboard, therefore. If such ads were to become common place, that would have to be a very low price... This is nonsense. Its like saying that by the time commercials on television become commonplace every citizen will have their own hour long nationally broadcast TV program. There's always been a problem of having to get away from civilization before you can really find "natural" scenery. 100 years ago, this usually didn't take a trip of over 5 miles. Today, most people would have to go 100 miles or more. If we ever get to the point where we have billboards on orbit, that essentially means that no place on Earth is still "wild." While that may or may not be a good thing, the orbital billboards aren't the problem: They are just a symptom of growing, densely-populated civilization. Banning such ads will not save your view of the night sky, because by the time such ads could become widespread you will probably have trouble finding a place without street lights, where you can _see_ the stars... The rest of your post is strange mishmash of "its already really bad" and "it doesn't really matter if it gets worse." You should try to figure out what you are really arguing for. (Kneejerk anti-environ- mentalism?) -david

If you check the news today, (AP) the "authorities also found a state-of-the-art automatic machine gun that investigators did not know was in the cult's arsenal." [Carl Stern, Justice Department] I imagine the authorities know the difference between semi and fully automatic and probably knew weather the guns were legal as they have access to any relative documentation (i.e. permits). In addition the .50 caliber guns (plural) were semi-automatic rifles.

Here we are with the Sabres up 2-0 to the Bruins and the Sabres' farm team, the Rochester Amerks, on their way to the Calder Cup (urp!) and what kind of hockey coverage are we getting? The same Penguins/Devils every other day crap that everyone else gets. What's worse, the SportsChannel coverage of the Islanders appears to be blocked out, since we got CBA basketball last night, if you can believe it. I assume the Sabres are demanding the SC blackout, not ESPN, since we are, unbelievably, usually considered part of the Islanders territory (MSG coverage of the Rangers is blacked out here). This despite being a solid seven hours plus from Long Island. Does anyone know what GRC is doing, besides putting their satellite dish up their ass and screwing my reception of channels 8, 10, and 13? Did Empire demand a fortune for the games? What about the games on Fox37 (or whatever number it is there in Buffalo)? Has anyone phoned to complain (besides me)? George

We just received an AppleOne Color Scanner for our lab. However, I am having trouble getting reasonable scanned output when printing a scanned photo on a LaserWriter IIg. I have tried scanning at a higher resolution and the display on the screen appears very nice. However, the printed version is coming out ugly! Is this due to the resolution capabilities of the printer? Or are there tricks involved to get better quality? Or should we be getting something (like PhotoShop) to "pretty up" the image? I will appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance, -Kris

Correct, we have no parallax measurements on the bursts. Therefore, we can't tell whether they're slightly extra solar or not! (which means that parallax can't tell us whether or not it's real close.)

This week, many of you have asked about my earlier postings on OT, NT and Intertestiment exegesis on the homosexual issue. I have refered you to the FAQ files, which I find out, no longer contains them. They are too long for me to mail to each of you, each article, but will try to get them back on the FAQ file. Because of the renewed interest on this subject, I will type, with permission, an article by James DeYoung. I think it is one of the best articles that I've read todate from the conservative position. I can't post it all at once, so it will come piece meal and not daily. After I'm done retyping the entire article, I will make it available for the FAQ file. Talk to clh. Also, for those who can't get through to me, you may try one of these: REXLEX@FNAL.FNAL.GOV LEXREX@ALMOND.FNAL.GOV Loren Senders@ADMAIL.FNAL.GOV THE SOURCE AND NT MEANING OF ARSENOKOITAI, WITH IMPLICATIONS FOR CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND MINISTRY James B. DeYoung Professor of New Testament Western Conservative Baptist Seminary Portland, Oregon Traditional interpretation of arsenokoitai ("homosexuals") in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 refers to sexual vice between people of the same sex, specifically homosexualitiy. Some restrict the term's meaning to "active male prostititute," but stronger evidence supports a more general translation, namely "homosexuals." More recently the definition "homosexual" has been opposed on clutural and linguistic grounds, the claim being that the term "homosexuals" is anachronistic. In addition, criticism of the traditional rendering says the term today includes celibate homophiles, excludes heterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts, and includes female homosexuals. A concern for acts instead of the modern attention to desires was the only factor in the ancient world. The foregoing oppositition to the translation of arsenokoitai by "homosexuals" has a number of debilitating weaknesses. Finally, this study argues that Paul coined the term arsenokoitai, deriving it from the LXX of Lev 20:12 (cf. 18:22) and using it for homosexual orientation and behavior, the latter of which should be an occasion for church discipline (I Cor 5-6) and legislation in society (1 Tim 1:8-11). ************************************* INTRODUCTION Coincident with the rise of the gay rights movement in recent years has been an increasing focus on the biblical statements regarding homosexuality or sodomy. As part of this focus, the meaning of the term arsenokoitai, used twice by the apostle Paul (1 Cor 6:9, I Tim 1:10), has received vigorous scrutiny. This issue is particularly crucial to contemporary society since so much of modern ethics is shaped by biblical statements. More particularly, the concern over gay rights and the place of gays or homosexuals in the church and in society require the resolution of biblical interpretation. This study of historical, linguistic, and literary matters will survey and evalutate recent proposals for the meaning of arsenokoitai and present evidence to point to a resolution. Several writers and their positions represent the modern debate on this word. Three authors, Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs, have provoked considerable discussion and significantly encouraged the wider acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle in society, in the church, and in the ministry.

Does anyone else make low radiation emission monitors besides NEC? How do they compare to NECs (quality and emission-wise)? TIA, Les

Interesting that Janet Reno has publically announced that we need steal ourselves for more Wacos. I wonder if I can get the gasoline concession. Yup. Kill that bastard! Ah, yes. The ILLEGAL helicopter, searchign for the non-existent PCP lab. I remember it well, even if the media ( and y'all ) tell me I don't. Call me Winston. Ahhh, yes. The "non-existent" canisters. Call me Winston again. I did too, but for different reasons. The FBI has a habit of burning up people in fortified areas. Yup. Good. Dead. YEAH! Maybe Janet will do some more, just like she's promis, er, WARNED us about. Like I told y'all before. I would SERIOUSLY consider the following:

I believe it is illegal to send any cryptographic code out of the country without an export license. (Others will correct me if this is inaccurate.) Dunno if you'd get one for the particular code you have; the only way to find out is to apply for a license. Note that you need to distinguish between what is legal to send to Canada if YOU have such a license, and what is legal to send if you don't.

Am I correct in assuming that the science instruments buffer their acquired data in onboard RAM, which is then downloaded upon receipt of the MRO command?

This is also being replied to via e-mail. I dialed my university librarian, and he looked it up: Loma Linda University Medical Center Loma Linda, CA 92350 I don't know an Internet address for them, but they can be reached by telephone at (714) 824-4300. Good luck.

: Hello : I've got an old Trident 8800CS SVGA card, but lacking suitable drivers : for windows 3.1. The drivers for the 8900 series seem to be incompatible. : Does anyone have an idea of where to get these drivers? Address for an : ftp-site would be nice. : Thanks in advance : Jouni : _______________________________________________________________________________ : Jouni Marttila - Yo-kyl{ 11 B 25, 20540 Turku, FINLAND - +358 21 374624____ : jmarttila@abo.fi - jmarttila@finabo - abovax::jmarttila - jjmartti@utu.fi__ : PGP-key available via finger jmarttila@abo.fi ___________________________ You can find the drivers at wuarchive.wustl.edu in the /msdos/windows3 sub- directory. I think the files are called "tvgawin31a.zip" and "tvgawin31b.zip." Those are the latest drivers available as far as I know.

Here are the ones I can remember offhand: KDKA 1020 AM Pittsburgh Penguins WABC 770 AM New Jersey Devils WBBM 780 AM Chicago Blackhawks WJM (?) 720 AM Detroit Redwings KMOX 1120 AM St. Louis Blues Are the Flyers on 1210? That's all I can think of.

I've got a very nice collection of historical books on medical quackery, and on the topic of massage this is a recurring theme. Ordinary massage is intended to make a person feel better, especially if they have muscular or joint problems. But -- like chiropracty -- there are some practitioners who take the technique to a far extreme, invoking what seems to me to be quack science to justify their technique. In the case of massage, there is a technique called "deep abdominal massage" in which the masseur is literally attempting to massage the intestines! The notion is that undigested food adheres to the inner surface of the intestines and putrifies, releasing poisons which cause various disease syndromes. By this vigorous and painful procedure, it is alleged that these deposits can be loosened up and passed out.

On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in their Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I played in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of us bought a 1967 "tranny" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible shape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent days cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til the day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried pig shit came flying out the vents!!!. Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that thing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and it went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls on the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now. When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a Morris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.

Heck, I seem to feel like that *every* time I eat out. Including in the cafeteria at work. About half the time, the headache intensifies until nothing will make it go away except throwing up. Ick. As you might imagine, I don't eat out a lot. I guess my tolerance for food additives has plummeted since I switched to eating mostly steamed veggies. They're easy to fix, that's all. I won't even mention what happened the last time I ate corned beef. (Oops. Too late.)

( I AGREE ! ) I think the problem here is that Mrs. Reno strikes me ( After watching NightLine Last night ) as a person who is incapable of understanding OR dealing with a great number of things.

The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! TITLE Minimum/Current -------------------------------------------------------------- Alpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel) $ 5.00 Aliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988) $20.00/KrisM./SOLD Amazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00 Amazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin) $50.00 Archer and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton) $ 7.50 Avengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50 Bloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster) $ 5.00/Same/THREE CyberRad 1 (Reintro CyberRad, Prestige silver edition) $15.00 Daredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00 Dark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing) $ 7.50 Detective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher) $ 5.00 Detective 658 (Azrael appears) $ 4.00 Harbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps) $ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD H.A.R.D. Corps 1 $ 5.00 Incredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962) $ 7.00 Incredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue) $15.00 Incredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins) $11.00 Incredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00 Incredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00 Marvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50 Marvel Presents (Charleston Chew giveaway, Sam Keith) $ 5.00 Maxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover) $33.50/BrentB/SOLD Mr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist) $10.00 New Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo) $10.00 New Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00 New Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants) $10.00 Omega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50 Omega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50 Power Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00 Power Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00 Simpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.) $ 7.50 Spectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50 Spider-Man Special (UNICEF giveaway, vs Venom) $10.00 Star Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50 Star Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50 Trianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autographed) $ 5.00 Web of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 Web of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50 Wolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth) $15.00 Wolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad) $ 5.00 Wolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad) $ 3.50 Wolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes) $ 3.00 Wolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art) $20.00 Wonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00 All comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny polypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is $1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order a large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle. I have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what you've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted here don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.

This is something I've always found a little curious. I've never quite understood the trinity thing. On the one hand, Jesus is supposed to be God incarnate. But, at the same time, he is God's son "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son". First question is, if Jesus was God in human form, how could he really be God's son? If the Holy Ghost "planted the seed" in Mary, so to speak, then it seems that Jesus' relationship to God would be the equivalent to the human father/son relationship. While a son might inherit alot of the father's qualities, he is not the father. They are still two separite entities. To try and say that a son is the same person as the father is obviously wrong. In that case, Jesus and God aren't the same. On the other hand, if their relationship isn't the same as the human father/son relationship, but Jesus is actually God incarnate, then he's not really God's son and he never was. He's just God manifesting himself as Jesus. At least, this is how I'm seeing it. Can someone who is more knowledgeable about the trinity enlighten us? Getting back to the original question, what is the great price that Jesus paid to redeem our sins? Was it dying on the cross? Since Jesus knew that he would rise again in 3 days and then ascend back to heaven, I have a hard time seeing how this is considered paying such a great price for humanity. His earthly body may have been killed, but then, so what? He suffered a few hours of physical pain, but then, there has been many a human who has suffered a great deal more. The fact that Jesus was God's only begotten son doesn't seem to me to have much meaning since God can beget as many sons as he wants to. Jesus being the only one was simply a matter of choice. I suspect that these questions will be very offensive to many Christians on this net. To those people, please accept my sincere apologies. It is not my intention to offend or to trivialize Christ. But, I do believe these are legitimate questions and I am genuinely curious. [Note that the Trinity and Incarnation have to be looked at together. First, your reading of the Virgin Birth is an uncommon one. (In this group, it's dangerous to say that no one believes something.) You seem to be suggesting the Jesus is God's son in a physical sense, with the Holy Spirit as Father and Mary as Mother. I consider that terrible heresy, though some people react less violently. The Virgin Birth says that Jesus' birth is God's responsibility. But it doesn't imply that God's sperm was involved. Indeed one (though by no means the only) speculation is that God used Joseph's genetic material. Second, Jesus is in some sense doubly indirect from the Father. In a Trinitarian context, the term Son refers to the eternal Logos, who is a part of God. The Son didn't come into existence with Jesus' birth. Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. So his sonness isn't specifically a result of being incarnated. Rather, it's the Son who was incarnated.

This was a concession to Mansbridge and CBC News, they argued that if you're going to play havoc with the schedule, you should at least make sure that Prime Time is aired as soon as possible. News got a commitment that the post-game show would be scrapped and that the network would go to PTN within one minute or so of the game ending. As for the earlier comments about CBC being "Ontariocentric" frankly the no doubleheader decison goes both ways, people in the West cant see the Leafs and people in Central Canada can't see the Jets game. The reason for the decision was CBC's feeling they couldn't sell advertising for six hours of hockey in one night. As for who wants to see news over hockey, a lot of people. CBC always gets plenty of complaints about juggling the news schedule.

I'm looking for recommendations for a laser printer. It will be used mostly for text by a single user. It doesn't need to be a postscript printer. Any advice would be appreciated.

Charlie Brett's suggestion -- buy one of the disposable flash cameras, use the film, then take the thing apart -- is a good one. Note, though, that you won't get a particularly precise voltage out of such a thing, and it may be a single-point design that won't adapt well to off-nominal operation. The things are easy to dismantle. The key piece of information is that when you advance the film on one of them, you are winding it *into* the film cassette -- it is unwound from the cassette in the factory, when the camera is made. So no darkroom is needed for dismantling. It's standard film, so just take the cassette in for processing. All the camera-store people do when you bring in one of the disposables is rip it apart, toss the film cassette into the to-be-processed bin, and throw the battery in one trashcan and the rest of the camera in another. If you take it apart yourself, you get an AA alkaline battery (still with a fair bit of life in it) and all kinds of little bits and pieces from the camera. I expect you could even re-load and re-use the camera if you were really determined.

Well, they never should have gotten into this situation. Look at the history of this group. David Koresh has been arrested ?twice? by local police. Both times, he accepted the arrest warrant and went peacefully. So, the feds decide to arrest him. How do they choose to arrest a person with a record of peaceful obedience under arrest? They throw a concussion grenades at his building. In addition, we KNOW that we've been lied to. Initially, we were told that they suspected him of molesting children and having several wives. But these are NOT ATF offenses, were they? So they changed their story, several times. And the original warrant is STILL sealed. And we were told about the rockets and ammunition they had... but did anyone notice any ammo exploding in the fire? They claimed that Koresh hadn't left the compound in months... but people in town report seeing him just a week before the raid. How would I have handled it differently? Well, first, I haven't seen any evidence that the BDs did anything wrong. There's a sealed warrant, and a collection of stories which keep changing about what they did. So I might not have done ANYTHING. OK. Now, supposing that I know what the BDs are being arrested for. Well, they've got a history of accepting arrests... so, I send officers to the door with a warrant. Wearing bulletproof vests. Covered from a distance by sharpshooters. Now, there's no good reason to suspect that these people will do anything, right? Why didn't anyone TRY serving a warrant? OK. Going further. They refuse the warrant. It becomes necessary to raid. You plan a raid. You hear an hour before that there was a leak, and they know your coming. SO what do you do? Well, change your plans, right? Nope... they go ahead with it anyone... including sending in unprotected men to break into the place. It was idiotic. I don't know what I would have ended up doing. But that original raid should NEVER have happened. The shit that came later should NEVER have happened. The full record of the raid should be released to the public to let us know what the hell really happened there. The lies should NEVER have been told. <MC>

I am urgently looking for the following article, but I can't seem to find it anywhere here: "The Multi-Threaded X Server" John Allen Smith The X Resource Issue 1, pp. 73-89, Winter 1992 If anyone can tell me where to find it, it WILL be much appreciated. H.F. Sadie Departement of Computer Science University of Stellenbosch South Africa

: In article <1993Apr22.170418.15799@news.eng.convex.com> gardner@convex.com ...cascades elided to preserve our sanity.... : That wasn't my point. My point is that your implied position about the "Waco : Massacre" is an assertion cum political position. According to a CNN poll, .... : What you call the "Big Brother Chip" is right now a proposal under : discussion, and it is not yet clear that strong crypto is going to be : banned. Just to set the record straight, Steve Gardner was not the author of the bit you quoted--I was. Steve just took issue with David's characterization of my words as "pernicious nonsense." I won't further comment on my own views...folks either support 'em or they don't, and the lines in question were neither central to the points I was making in my original post nor to the important debate here in sci.crypt and elsewhere. -Tim May, who continues to hold the same views but doesn't feel like debating politics

: : >Recently my cousin got a second internal IDE drive (a Seagate 210MB, : >I can look up the model number if it's important) and I've been : >trying to help him install it. [I've got a vested interest, since : >my machine's busted and I have to use his until I get mine fixed.] : >He already has a Seagate 85MB IDE HD (again, I forget the model number : >but I can find out.) : : >Anyway, I can't seem to get the bloody thing up. I've managed to get : >one or the other drive up (with the other disconnected), but not both : >at the same time; whenever I try, the thing hangs during bootup - : >never gets past the system test. The IDE controller's instruction : >sheet says it supports two drives; I think I've configured the CMOS : >correctly; the power's plugged in properly; I even learned about the : >master/slave relationship that two HDs are supposed to have (didn't : >know PCs were into S&M! 8^) and I think I configured the jumpers : >properly (the 85MB one is the master, the new 210MB one is the slave). : [deleted] : : >Many, many thanks in advance! This is practically an emergency (I have : >two papers to do on this thing for Monday!)! Help! : >-- : >----------------------- : >William Barnes SURAnet Operations : >wbarnes@sura.net (301) 982-4600 voice (301) 982-4605 fax : >Disclaimer: I don't speak for SURAnet and they don't speak for me. : I've been told by our local computer guru that you can't do this unless you : perform a low level format on your existing hard drive and set your system : up for two hard drives from the beginning. I took him at his word, and I : have not tried to find out any more about it, because I'm not going to back : everything up just to add another HDD. If anyone knows for sure what the : scoop is, I would like to know also. Thanks in advance also. : : Bill Willis : 1. do not do a low level format on an IDE drive unless you have the executable for doing so supplied by the manufacturer. These are available from bbs's or mail but the mail version costs a nominal fee. 2. In addition to the master/slave jumper on an IDE drive there is also another jumper to indicate whether a slave is present. Get it right! 3. The cabling is not an issue as long as pin 1 goes to pin 1 goes to pin 1. No twisting or swapping on an IDE cable. Be sure of pin 1 on all three components - do not make assumptions (guesses are ok but assumptions are bad). 4. If the cable and jumpers are correct, and the CMOS setup is correct, then you may have to do an FDISK followed by a high level format. I have NEVER personally found this necesary, but perhaps there is something gone wrong with the data on the disks? Probably not but I understand your predicament - You will probably throw salt over your shoulders, wear funny clothes and do a spooky sounding chant while dancing around the room if someone said it might help. Good Luck

What??? I heard there was a new engine slated for the mustang...something like 280hp (ok, it was from one of their other lines...)... --

WOW! Another Clayton wannabe. Typical response: lack of logic. Define 'deviant': someone who deviates from the normal. Ok, so far. Define 'normal': erm, umm. If you define yourself as normal then it is for you to prove that you are (within limits, which then brings in the question, what are the limits? For you we may have to broaden them to other's intolerance ;-) ) 'normal'. Difficult to prove. From what you have posted it must follow that `normal` to you means someone without compassion and a sense of justice. But it does look as if you went to the Clayton school of logic, doesn't it? Again an astounding lack of logic! Wow! You must define what you say such that everyone agrees. Here you have used the phrase "sexual deviant". How in the hell do you define that? As someone who does something sexually that _you_ don't? By this definition you most probably mean the majority of the planet. How do you know that your next door neighbour doesn't like custard to be spread over his genetalia then have it licked off by his wife? Is this sexual deviancy? How do we know that you don't like something sexually which others may find repulsive? Is having sex doggy fashion a sexual deviancy? Please be more specific, and where you do, back up your claims. Or I may have to go to hospital due to laughing too much at yours and Clayton's postings. Secondly, if we assume for the moment that the phrase 'sexual deviant' means such people as homosexuals, bisexuals &c. (basically everyone you don't like), I think that your phrase "do not comprise a `political minorit[y]`" (why the brackets?) is a non-sequiteur. Gay groups exist which lobby their governments. That is a fact. Prove it false. Hence they are a politial group. You state that they are not a political minority. Are they therefore a political majority? I think you boobed really big on this one. Try thinking about your arguments. Prove the first statement please. Dates, phone numbers, &c. Again your logic fails. Again you make statements which you cannot (and most probably will not) maintain. You state that a person (girl, in this context) who considers equal rights for all humans to be an airhead? As Clayton (your best mate?) would say: it just shows how screwed up you are. Proof please. Proof that homosexuality is not part of the natural order. Proof that nature has always asserted itself. Are you saying that nature is a conciousness? Are you pretending that you have the ability to see the future? Are you god(tm)? In fact, by your arguement, are you waiting for the black people to become slaves again? Because they were reviled as sub-human (nb: *not* my view) at one time? Again your arguement falls on its ass. Touchy touchy touchy! Right. I have shot holes in each and every one of your arguements. You are most probably going to put me in your kill file because you have no answers to my questions and challenges. Since you cannot support your arguments it merely goes to show that what you write is based upon your personal prejudices, and cannot be taken to be fact of any kind. I await an intelligent response.....

mark> *WE* are the ones in control of what we use. It is those who mark> follow like blind sheep which cause the markets to skew. I'm sure mark> there will be enough "paid market hipe NT conferences" without it mark> needing to be in what was once a conference for open windowing mark> enviroments. I know that if I were planning to go I would cancel. mark> NOT because I have my eyes closed, but because NT does not belong mark> at such a conference. I would, however, like to go to a CLOSED mark> environment NT conference to see the product because I am curious. mark> I doubt, however, based on the objective opinions of those I trust, mark> that I would be impressed. -- Why do many (?) people believe that Xhibition '93 is one of the "paid market hype NT conferences" (as you put it)? I for one am going, because I, too, am curious about the technology. I think this is a great chance to learn about NT, mainly because: - It will be presented in X's "home turf". I believe that the attendees will mostly have X backgrounds (biases? :-); thus, I expect that the NT presentations will face a tough audience. - I can be there in person to judge for myself whether or not NT is what it is hyped to be. This is as closely as I can get to in evaluating the NT technology without actually using it myself, which I don't have the time to do. - If NT turns out to be a vapor technology and I get bored, there will be many other interesting tutorials/presentations that I won't have to waste my time ... in California?!? :-) Just my thoughts... --

... I have seen it used in an Orthodox church once, although I can't recall why. I found it odd, to say the least. Also, I object to the statement that the Orthodox DELETE the filioque from the original form of the Creed. The creed originally did NOT contain that phrase, and it is not present in the Greek original, which hangs by my desk. Not intending to start a flame war. We didn't need to delete what wasn't there. Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com) --

RIDING"? >> Here in Louisiana the State Sign is "CAUTION - SUB-STANDARD ROADWAY". ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----

Wm Hathaway comments; I agree that the desire for beauty is valid, but I think your desire to impose your vision of beauty is not. You mention the age-old desire to somehow get up there, but ignore the beauty of the actual achievment of that vision. You mention the beauty of a very dark sky, not impeded by the effects of humans, but ignore the beauty of the as-dark-as-can-be sky that is only visible from space, a vision that we, or at least, our descendents, may one day be able to see, in part, because of efforts that others call ugly. One day, I hope, humans will be able to look out, not upon half the heavens, with only nature-creted lights, but upon all of the heavens, with no lights. If advertising in space can help us reach that goal, it is no less beautiful for the way we reach it, than the 'pristine' sky of yesteryear (or yester-century), which is totally unreachable. One of the original conceptions of beauty in wetsern sculpture was a human form, in the effort of striving to reach a goal. I don't think there's any reason to believe that modernity has changed that, just because it has changed the way we strive. BTW, there are places that people haven't fouled. Sometimes they make it better. -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ As the radius of vision increases, 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows.

Ok, so in my ongoing search for a sport utility, here's the latest; Toyota 4runner: Small. Small Small Small. The interior of this vehical is impossible for a large person. Too bad; it would have been the winner otherwise. Nissan Pathfinder: Very low ceiling. My head hit the roof, Fun on bumps, no? Also has a cheap-looking interior. Isuzu Trooper: Class act. This is a really, really nice vehical. Very comfortable, handled ok. Has really cool grab handles EVERYWHERE. But it's huge, and the engine is a bit too small for it's bulk; also the manual shift is weird and kind of awkward. I'd buy this if it were $3k cheaper or 10" shorter. But at this size and for this price, no. I kept picturing trying to park in in San Francisco. No Thanks. Chevy Blazer: Cheap looking. Small. Not as small as the Toyota and Nissan, but still too small. Ford Explorer: This is no sports car, and it's certainly not for the serious off roader. But it's big enough to be comfortable without being as huge and heavy as the trooper. It's engine has plenty of power for everyday driving, though it would be nice if it had a *bit* more. The automatic tranny is pretty nice; head and shoulders above my '90 mazda MPV. The steering is not as tight as I'd like, but it's acceptable. The two door has easy-to-enter back seats (Easier to get into, in fact, than the driver's seat of the 4runner!) and with a 10" shorter wheelbase and the easier availability of a manual tranny, (Yes, I'm a manual shift biggot, I admit it...) it's the one I'm thinking of buying. So, that said, is there anyone out there who has one of these and hates it? Anyone had any major problems? Heard any horror stories? Also, any reason to buy the ford over the mazda Navajo, both being essentially the same vehical? Thanks- -Karl

How did the Leafs turn it around??? I couldn't get the Leaf games on the weekend in CA. Did the Leaf defense wise up overnight? Did the Leafs get in the slot or was it just "fluke" goals in a goalie duel? Did the Wings turn off the jets or muscle? What gives here? I caught game 1 on satellite. I figured my Leafs were washed. This is a _major_ turnaround. Very few predicted this. How, how, how did it happen? Wing and Leaf perspectives welcomed!

I just got a bug report and a fix for this exact problem from fisher@iscp.bellcore.com (Greg Fisher): He isolated the problem a proposed a workaround which seems precisely correct. Here is the new implementation of XmpTableNewProposedLayout which will be released with the next update in 5 weeks: Xmp/Table.c: void XmpTableNewProposedLayout( tw ) XmpTableWidget tw; { XmpTableConsiderSameSize( tw ); XmpTableProposedColsAndRows( tw ); XmpTableQueryParentForResize( tw ); /* query only, no resize */ /* * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue. * However, Motif is broken so that we actually may already have * been resized. In that case, the proposed layout is already * forgotten, so we should just quietly exit. */ if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest ) { XmpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth( tw ); XmpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw ); XmpTableGetProposedChildSize( tw ); XmpTableSaveProposedLayout( tw ); } /* else the resize has already been done. Our proposed layout would * have been forgotten in the process. */ } The XpTable the fix is identical, except of course for the names: Xp/Table.c: void XpTableNewProposedLayout( tw ) XpTableWidget tw; { XpTableConsiderSameSize( tw ); XpTableProposedColsAndRows( tw ); XpTableQueryParentForResize( tw ); /* query only, no resize */ /* * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue. * However, some manager widgets are broken so that we actually may * already have * been resized. In that case, the proposed layout * is already forgotten, so we should just quietly exit. */ if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest ) { XpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth( tw ); XpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw ); XpTableGetProposedChildSize( tw ); XpTableSaveProposedLayout( tw ); } /* else the resize has already been done. Our proposed layout would * have been forgotten in the process. */ } ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Smyth david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov Senior Software Engineer, (818)306-6193 (do NOT use v-mail yet!) CCCP, X and Object Guru. office: 525/C165 Jet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "That Sun Windows thingy, what's it called? You know, its really awful. X? Motif? That's it - Motif! Yuck!"

I once heard an arguement from a xtian friend similar to this. "Christianity is a Higher Logic. Athiest like u will not be able to understand it. Your atheist logic is very low. Only thru faith can we understand the Higher Logic in God". So I asked him, "So what is this Higher Logic?" His answer, "I don't know." This, & the posting above highlights one of the worst things about xtainity. It is abundantly clear to both atheists & xtains that their believe is both illogical & irrational. Their tactics, therefore: to disregard logic & rationality altogether. Silly excuses such as the ones above and those such as, "How can u trust science, science was invented by man!", only goes to further show the weakness of their religion. In my country where xtainity was and still is rapidly growing, xtains never try to convert people by appealing to their brains or senses. They know it would be a fruitless act, given the irrational nature of their faith. They would wait until a person is in distress, then they would comfort him/her and addict them to their emotional opium. Never in my life had I met a person who converted to xtainity coz it's "reasonable". Rationality has no place in xtainity (see xtian arguement against "reason" above). -- The UnEnlightened One ------------------+-------------------------------------------------------- | Tan Chade Meng | The wise man tells his wife that he understands her. Singapore | cmtan@iss.nus.sg | The fool tries to prove it. | ------------------+-------------------------------------------------------- --

Does anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave polygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons? Thanks,

A quick search of the index at mac.archive.umich.edu shows the following as available by anonymous ftp from that site: /mac/util/developer/diagnosticsoundsampler.hqx 9 7/24/90 BinHex4.0 That "chord" you hear when you push the start-up on your Mac II means more than just "I'm on". it's passed it's internal test. This utility explains what the various sounds stand for (i.e. various stages of ram testing...)

Could an atheist accept a usage in which religious literature or tradition is viewed in a metaphorical way? Of course: this is essentially what we do with Homer, or with other concepts such as fate, luck, free will ;-)... However, there remains the question of whether the religious literature of -- say -- Christianity is a particularly *good* set of metaphors for the world today. It's also entirely unclear, and to me quite unlikely, that one could take a contemporary religion like that and divorce the metaphoric potential from the literalism and absolutism it carries now in many cases.

********** Hitachi CD player (needs cd spin motor) $30 shipped JoYSTICKS.. an IBM/apple joystick three fire buttons apple joy stick (//c //e) kraft track ball make offers.. coleco vision items: two working Consoles w/ working controllers in great shape one roller ball controller two Super ACtion conrollers one 'standard' joystick games: SA baseball SA rocky SA football VIc 20 and C64 with powersupplies and RF modulators... make an offer Vic20 Catridges: Raid on Fort Knox - Omega Race ****** Early 80's Epiphone Acoustic guitar spruce top.. mohogany back, sides and neck adjustable bridge, plays very nice small hole in side for jack (had a pickup at one time) $175 + shipping ****** Yamaha CS-5 ANalog synthesizer Three octave keyboard VCO - single oscillator range from 64' to 2' Tone sources - Saw tooth, square, noise and external sound VCA - can be modulated VCF - Cut off, resonance, LFO MOD, envelope generator depth pitch bend slider, CV in and out, trigger in and out, external tone source in... the keyboard is in perfect working order and is colored black and white $150 + shipping ********** DRUM stuff.. North heavy Duty hi hat stand $45 older stand... but definately in working shape.. could use a little clean up. comes with clutch and felts, etc.. Pearl bass drum pedal with felt beater $20 honer cymbal stand $15 (needs some work on cymbal stem) Zildjian 20" Ride cymbal $55 main line zildjian... older ride cymbal Ludwig snare stand $10 okay snare stand.. NOT like a remo though ;) shipping extra.. please email if you have questions about anything, please email me

James Madison, Federalist Paper 41: "It has been urged and echoed, that the power ``to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,'' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare... "No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; ... But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? ... Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. --

On a related note (since UPS lost my Chain Wax and I'm still using PJ-1/Goo), I found some great stuff to clean chain spooge of wheels. It's called Goo Gone and cleaned the spooge off my rear wheel faster than the Simple Green cleaned the bug guts off my headlight. Wonderful stuff. I recommend that we officially delcare it a DoD Wonder Spooge (tm) product.

None of the SUNs, DECs, or RS6000s I've used have turned off the monitor automatically.

>there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just >that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the >serial number, get the keys, and they are in business. So, you admit that Clipper opens the doors wide for the following scenario: FEDS: We need the keys to Joe Blow's phone. ESCROW AGENT: Joe Blow? You have a warrant to tap his line? FEDS: Well, no, but we have a warrant to tap Carlos "Slime-Devil" Gonzales' line, and our tap shows that Mr. Gonzales is using Mr. Blow's phone.

Yesterday, a friend of mine got a new driver for his card that more than doubled the speed... Naturally, besides being a tad jealous (same machine -- different cards), it got me thinking... What if I am using a slow driver? Wouldn't that be _horrible_ ? :) So netlanders, I need samples of your collective experience (sic) -- Do you proud owners of a Trident 8900C video card w/ 1MB VRAM have tried out more than one driver fro MS Win 3.1 which? which is the fastest? Not to be selfish, and to give you a motive for responding, I promise I am going to collect all the answers, and the actual drivers (provided u give me a site to get it from or uuencode&mail) get the WinMarks using PC Magazine`s WinBENCH and... post the results here... I am interested in SVGA drivers only (plain VGA users should run the Win driver, or this is what I 've heard -- dont flame me!) Particularly 800x600x16 and/or 800x600x256 (that should cover the majority of SVGA users) Well, what are you waiting for? hit that r or f or whatever... All input welcome -- so are money and Sun SPARCstations... Thanx in advance...

Fine. I'll buy from George. GEORGEEE!!!! That assumes I can't weasel out a cooperative venture of some sort (cut me a break on the launcher, I'll cut you in on the proceeds if it works). Only the government pays higher-than-list price. Unless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD line of aerospace products. If MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better than buying at "list price." Does anyone REALLY know the profit margins built in to the Titan? C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this or that... Oh please. How much of a profit do you want? Pulling $100-150 million after all is said and done wouldn't be too shabby. Not to mention the other goodies I'll collect in: a) Movie & TV rights (say $100-150 million conservatively) b) Advertising ("Look Mommie, they're drinking Coke!") c) Intangibles (Name recognization, experience & data acculumated) If you want lean, fine. A $500 million prize would be more than adequate for a prize. Maybe Wales would be kind enough to define what a company would consider a decent profit. If you want R&D done, you'll have to write in R&D clauses. I suppose you could make it a SBIR set-aside :)

I am looking for a copy of the first World Wrestling Federation album in Record format. Will pay $10 for a good condition record and original album jacket and inserts. The album I am looking for has a picture of a bunch of the wrestlers ina recording studio front and back with the good guy wrestlers and the bad guy wrestlers making faces at each other. Songs include 'Land of a thousand dances" or something like that.

I'll leave questions 1 and 2 to be answered elsewhere, but on question 3) something in the noos today might be an example of the restoration might be. Namely, that the Clinton Administration is considering asking the UN to establish a police force for Haiti. I didn't hear any thing that said that the current Govt. of Haiti asked for it, nor is there any real precedent (barring Somalia) for the UN getting involved in internal conflicts. That might also answer question 2). The neo-colonial countries are a diffuse lot - the UN (Security Council). And while I am at it, I'll take a stab at 1) - the new colonialism, as defined in most articles I have read, would entail something of the nature of Trusteeship under the UN Sec. Council, democracy, aid, education, free-markets, free press and then out for the colonialists, now assured that there is a "civilized" country that they have left behind. Note I don't support this idealized concept, simply because I think it is a lot of hogwash. -- Srinivas Sunder sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu If The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised. They aren't that smart generally -:).

The major problem with this analysis is that it ignores age. Even if Morris were performing as well as Clemens right now, and were likely to this season, nobody would trade Clemens for Morris straight up because Clemens has more of his career left.

Here are the standings after game 2 of each of the divisional semi-final series. - Andrew USENET Hockey Playoff Draft Standings Posn Team Pts Rem Last Posn 1. Sneddon Scorers 77 25 (1) 2. Arctic Circles 75 25 (75) Northern Lights 75 25 (33) Threepeat 75 25 (19) 5. fighting amish 74 25 (161) Team Elvis 74 25 (11) 7. chris roney 73 25 (33) Myers Marauders 73 25 (--) the dead ducks 73 25 (11) 10. Les Poteux 72 25 (--) Sludge 72 25 (75) Paige Faults 72 25 (33) Sam & His Dogs 72 25 (33) The Borg 72 25 (2) Hurricane Andrew 72 25 (4) Lewey's Lakers 72 25 (102) Einstien's Punk Band 72 25 (9) 18. Homesick Hawaiian 71 25 (4) Test Department 71 25 (11) Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 71 25 (127) Mopar Muscle Men 71 25 (33) Jerky Boys 71 24 (4) GB Flyers 71 25 (19) 24. Neural Netters 70 25 (102) give you money monday 70 25 (9) Bill McGreer 70 25 (--) Fugazi 70 25 (33) Detroit Homeboy 70 25 (11) Bloom County All-Stars 70 25 (54) DehraDun Maawalis 70 25 (75) 31. Great Expectations 69 25 (4) PURDUE RICKS PENS 69 25 (19) 33. frank's little wankers 68 25 (33) Jan Stein 68 25 (33) Allez les Blues 68 25 (--) Goaldingers 68 25 (75) suds 68 25 (19) weenies 68 25 (33) A.P. BURY 68 25 (19) Bruce's Rented Mules 68 25 (4) 41. Mind Sweepers 67 25 (33) Mike Burger 67 25 (11) Go Flames 67 25 (--) garryola 67 25 (33) The Mulberry Maulers 67 25 (75) LIPPE 67 25 (102) Flamming Senators 67 25 (19) Big Bay Bombers 67 25 (102) Milton Keynes Kings 67 25 (33) 50. Seppo Kemppainen 66 25 (19) Freddy Beach Rockets 66 25 (--) The Campi Machine 66 25 (19) j's rock'em sock'ems 66 25 (75) Sean Forbes 66 25 (19) Tapio Repo 66 25 (11) zachmans wingers 66 25 (19) Zipper Heads 66 25 (11) Canadian Gladiators 66 25 (75) 59. Teem Kanada 65 25 (33) New Zealand Leafs 65 25 (54) Tiger Chung Lees 65 25 (54) Rangers Of Destiny 65 25 (33) make beliefs 65 25 (54) Dave Wessels 65 25 (2) Norway Killerwhales 65 25 (54) 66. Force 25 64 25 (75) trevor's triumph 64 25 (75) Commitments 64 25 (141) Skate or Die 64 25 (19) Dog's Hog's 64 25 (33) Delaware Destroyers 64 25 (33) Craig team 64 25 (11) Rangers Blow 64 25 (54) Debbie Bowles 64 25 (19) Mak Paranjape 64 25 (141) Comfortably Numb 64 25 (127) Loaded Weapons 64 25 (54) Rob Del Mundo 64 25 (54) Robarts Research Rebels 64 25 (54) Fuzzfaces Galore 64 25 (19) Houdini's Magicians 64 25 (54) La Coupe Stainless 64 25 (141) 83. Cluster Buster 63 25 (33) Lets Go Pandas 63 25 (102) Tequila Shooters 63 25 (141) Steves Superstars 63 25 (102) Reksa fans of Oulu 63 25 (127) Habs Playing Golf 63 25 (75) Chris Stevens 63 25 (--) On Thin Ice 63 25 (102) Oakville Brothers 63 25 (33) Jason team 63 25 (102) smithw 63 25 (102) 94. Anson Mak 62 25 (173) Skriko Wolves 62 25 (102) all the kane's men 62 25 (75) Danielle Leblanc 62 25 (127) Team Awesome 62 25 (19) weasels 62 25 (141) Alf's All-Stars 62 25 (75) Zippety Doodah 62 25 (75) Kramer George and Jerry 62 25 (75) Rev's Rebels 62 25 (75) Yan Loke 62 25 (75) Lamp Lighters 62 25 (102) littlest giants 62 25 (75) Mr Creosote 62 25 (75) 108. oceanweavers 61 25 (161) Great Scott 61 25 (141) Bobby Schmautz Fan Club 61 25 (127) IceMachine 61 25 (102) Hat Trick Mike 61 25 (--) The promise land 61 25 (33) Daves knee jerk picks 61 25 (102) Doug Bowles 61 25 (102) Holsteins SFB 61 25 (54) Lemon Pepper Grizzly Bears 61 25 (54) Flying pigs 61 25 (127) Les Raisins 61 25 (102) RENEB 61 25 (102) Gilles Carmel 61 25 (102) 122. Boops Bets 60 25 (127) Timo Ojala 60 25 (127) Rednecks from Hockey Hell 60 25 (33) gee man 60 25 (127) FRACK ATTACK 60 25 (54) triple X 60 25 (127) Ulfie's 16 brothers 60 25 (--) buffalo soldiers 60 25 (54) Shigella 60 25 (102) Ottawa Bearcats 60 25 (127) Whiters 60 25 (141) Monica Loke 60 25 (102) Lance Hill The Boston Bruins Fa 60 25 (33) 135. Mann Mariners 59 24 (141) New Jersey Rob 59 25 (102) Frasses Faceplants 59 25 (141) Doug Mraz 59 25 (102) Muller n Walker 59 25 (54) High Stickers 59 25 (141) Legzryx 59 25 (161) Beer Makes Me An Expert 59 25 (75) Gail Hiebert 59 25 (127) Dean Martin 59 25 (161) 145. marcs maulers 58 25 (127) brians bloodletters 58 25 (75) Van Isle Colonists 58 25 (141) Charlie Cook 58 25 (--) Bjorkloven 58 25 (54) Schott Shooters 58 25 (102) Bjoern Leaguen 58 25 (75) The Eradicators 58 25 (141) Lord Stanley's Favourites 58 25 (141) But Wait Theres more 58 25 (127) Stacey Ross 58 25 (141) 156. Heikki Salmi 57 25 (54) The Ice Kickers 57 25 (75) Chapman Chaps 57 25 (161) The ^&#@$#$% Rangers of 1940 57 25 (54) The Underwriters 57 25 (54) beam team 57 25 (176) Dave Hiebert 57 25 (75) Canuck Force 57 25 (176) Evan Pritchard 57 25 (161) Controversy Warriors 57 25 (54) JFZ Dream Team 57 25 (141) 167. San Jose Mahi Mahi 56 25 (141) go go gagit 56 25 (161) goddess of fermentation 56 25 (54) bure's blur 56 25 (141) Louisiana Psycho Killers 56 25 (141) East City Jokers 56 25 (102) Tampere Salami 56 25 (176) JOE'S A CRAK HEAD 56 25 (102) Grant Marven 56 25 (75) Mark And Steve Dreaming Again 56 25 (75) Pens Dynasty 56 25 (161) 178. Chip n Dale 55 25 (189) 179. Cherry Bombers 54 25 (161) Brian Bergman 54 25 (189) The Goobmeister 54 25 (75) Oz 54 25 (141) Arm & Hammer 54 25 (161) gax goons 54 25 (176) Daryl Turner 54 25 (102) 186. E.I.S 53 25 (141) BOSSE 53 25 (75) Myllypuro Hedgehogs 53 25 (161) Chapman Sticks 53 25 (176) Hillside Raiders 53 25 (185) Knights on a Power Play 53 25 (173) 192. Eldoret Elephants 52 25 (185) Sparky's Select 52 25 (176) Sluggo's Hosers 52 25 (173) butt ends 52 25 (176) 196. lisa's luggers 51 25 (197) Stanias Stars 51 25 (161) 198. Ken De Cruyenaere 49 25 (176) 199. Gary Shiff 48 25 (--) 200. JUKURIT 47 25 (176) 201. Montys Nords 45 25 (192) Jane's World 45 25 (185) Rolaids Required 45 25 (189) Martin's Gag 45 25 (194) 205. Equipe Du Jour 44 25 (196) 206. Arsenal Maple Leafs 41 18 (194) the ALarmers 41 25 (185) 208. Killer Kings 38 25 (192) -- Andrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com HP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253

> I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me > to Sweden and Germany. It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter > for that in Europe. The question is if the general electronics work > the same. I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd > have to), but would that do the trick? Two things to watch for: In Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some of the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the phone can be set to pulse dialing. Most (if not virtually all) swedish exchanges can handle tone dialling. Many older electromechanical exchanges have been modified accept tone dialling.

Wayne: Look for these advertised in sailboat supplies catalogs and sail-related magazines (eg. SAIL ...).

Secaris is reasonably inexpensive ($6.00 Cdn for a tube), and is indeed an over the counter medication. Why it does not appear to be available in the US, I don't know. It's manufactured in Montreal. It's a nasal lubricant, and is intended to help nosebleeds that result from dry mucous membranes. From some of the replies to my original posting, it's evident that some people do not secrete enough mucous to keep their nose lining protected from environmental influences (ie, dry air). But I've had no responses from anyone with experience with Rutin. Is there another newsgroup that might have specifics on herbal remedies? But thanks to all those who did reply with their experiences.

I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C leak. After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor seal. At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12 dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards because of the leak. First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of freon ($12 plus tax) ? Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?

Seeking North Carolina beach rental. Desire house for two families (4 adults, 3 kids) for one week in late June/early July.

THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 20, 1993 REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT IN PHOTO OPPORTUNITY WITH VACLAV HAVEL The Oval Office 5:00 P.M. EDT Q Mr. President, President Havel is here for the Holocaust Museum opening, and you toured the museum last night. All this focus on the Holocaust, how does that weigh on your decision- making process as far as Bosnia is concerned? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the Holocaust is the most extreme example the world has ever known of ethnic cleansing. And I think that even in its more limited manifestations, it's an idea that should be opposed. You couldn't help thinking about that. That's not to compare the two examples. They're not identical; everyone knows that. But I think that the United States should always seek an opportunity to stand up against -- at least to speak out against inhumanity. Q Sir, how close are you to a decision on more sanctions on Bosnia? THE PRESIDENT: Well, of course, we've got the U.N. vote. Ambassador Albright was instrumental in the U.N. vote to strengthen the sanctions and they are quite tough. And we now are putting our heads at the business of implementing them and looking at what other options we ought to consider. And I don't have anything else to say, except to tell you that I spent quite a bit of time on it and will continue to over the next several days. Q Following your meeting today, sir, are you any closer to some sort of U.S. military presence there? THE PRESIDENT: I have not made any decisions. * * * Q President Clinton, why have you decided to meet with Mr. Havel? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm just honored that he would come and see me. I'm glad he's here in the United States for the dedication of the Holocaust Museum. He is a figure widely admired in our country and around the world, and a very important person in Europe, and a very important person to the United States. So I'm hoping that we'll have a chance to talk about the new Czech republic and what kinds of things we can do together to support the causes we believe in.

Thanks for the responses so far. I hope that I have sparked some thought (which is more my intent than to restart one of the Reformations). I'm just going to tug on two threads: In Message-ID: <May.10.05.07.21.1993.3479@athos.rutgers.edu> db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes, I was simply observing that as a non-Jew, I am not in that community which might be bound by such a decision (I don't know much about the Council of Jamnia, but I have heard that it is not well-attested historically). 'Faithless' has nothing to do with it, and I prefer not to speculate about motives. I wish the Dialogue_with_Trypho were a real transcript of a real dialogue,, but I think it a fictional effect on Justin's part. Putting that to one side, Justin's point may be evidential; one would want to know- 'which books?' Perhaps the reformers were traveling in all the light (MS evidence) they had. Let's stick to the issues. Again, I prefer not to speculate about motives. One would need quotes from Luther, Calvin, etc. to evidence this 'preference'. ----- In Message-ID: <May.9.05.38.22.1993.27327@athos.rutgers.edu> wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Is this the principle: 'Any (BC) text not quoted by Christ cannot be counted as Scripture' ? Think well about this- Job, Ruth...? These is a logically invalid *a priori*. Besides, we are talking about OT texts- which in many parts are superceded by the NT (in the Xtian view). Would not this same principle exclude _Ecclesiastes_? This principle cannot be consistently applied. Dave W. answers: Meaning what? Do you affirm the principle (that the D.c's can be excluded since they contain 'false doctrine') or do you deny it? If affirmed (as is implied in your statement) how does one determine that doctrine X is false? Do you affirm every teaching in _Ecclesiastes_? If so, it may be a test that cannot be applied. The Orthodox faithfully believe that Psalm 151 is canonical. How can my faith say 'Not!' ? All I hear here is the *a priori* I mentioned before. This is contrary to fact. Can this be elevated to a principle? How is 'spiritual quality' measured? I'll take the 'spiritual quality' of most of Sirach over Joshua or Chronicles, any day. What can I say? You believe what you believe- I'm asking for a consistency check. I don't see that the books were added- in any construction this formulation begs the question. No one can validly ask me to 'have faith' that these books are noncanonical. Dave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com These are my opinions & activities alone QOTD:

Well, You can always try and find a PC dealer who sells guaranteed memory. I work at a company growing at 40% a year, we have on order hundreds of computers per year. It never fails, machines come in with BAD SIMMS. Now for those of you who are wondering just WHY your PC or MAC just crashed I can tell you I always thought it was the incompetent ass who wrote or designed the software. Well, I don't think that way anymore, especially with the results I have gotten with replacing BAD SIMMS in my own machine and others at work. The moral to this story is to MAKE SURE your memory is good. I would be willing to bet lots of you out there have SIMMS with either soft or hard errors on them and you don't even know about it, but every once in awhile those bad SIMMS just makes your life hell. I just got plain SICK of dealing with peoples complaints that thier machine just crashed and they lost thier work. In case your wondering, or if you haven't already guessed I work in an IS department. Service is a do or die perogative in this line of work, so the MORAL IS: HAVE YOUR MEMORY TESTED with a SIMM hardware tester...and NO I don't mean the simple little software programs that you can run in your machine. SIMMS are complicated little beasts and they needs special hardware to test them effectively. If any of you are interested in getting one of these nifty little devices which are not cheap, write me back. They make life a little bit easier, and besides they pay for themselves in a short time from the loss of productivity people would have to deal with when thier machine commits suicide.

The Shannon limit for voice lines is likely somewhere around 25kbps. We are rapidly approaching it. The fastest affordable full-duplex modems currently on the market are V32bis, which is 14400bps. CELP manages to sound decent at 4800 bps. In theory, if you built a speech recognition system that turned voice into ASCII, and a perfect synthesis system on the other end that sounded just like the person you were speaking to, you could get it down to the information content of the speech. With various kinds of LPC, you can get it down to 2400 bps or prehaps even less, at which point it sounds horrible. 4800 bps is more than adequite for our purposes. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com

Funny, I thought the numbering scheme for both Lexus and Infiniti was related to sticker price more than anything else, i.e. Infiniti G20 (around 20K), Q45 (around 45K), Lexus ES250 (RIP) (around 25K), Lexus ES300 (around 30K), etc. Is there a conspiracy theory there? Spiros

I just signed up for this group, so I hope I'm not missing something in a FAQ, but I'm looking for a good introduction to the mathematics of encryption -- particularly DES and Public-Key, though others would be interesting also. Probably a good library could help me out, but I thought it might be even easier if I could obtain a nice article entirely electronically (besides, I have this rather *rational* phobia of libraries for reasons stemming from this "dissertation" thing hanging over my head :-)). I have a basic knowledge of mathematics... number-theory is a bit unfamiliar to me, but I've had a few graduate-level math courses in some other areas; anyway, I'm not a complete novice to the field. So probably something aimed at a basic graduate introductory level would be about right. Something, anyway, which is more specific than "a really big prime number is generated to code the message". If someone knows of a good text available by ftp (or gopher), or would like to email me one... please let me know. I'll probably keep reading this group; but it would be nice if you would email me at the same time, so I don't miss it. Thanx, Lulu...

Applied Engineering used to sell a 3.5" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that read and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk. I wonder if the drive would work on a mac, since I'm using my old 3.5" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now. Just a thought. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ /~~~~~~~\ \_____ | | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE | | | TT EE VV VV EE | /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.software Subject: Re: Formatting more than 1440K - Possible??? Summary: Expires: References: <C64J1n.Hpq@csulb.edu> Distribution: Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA Keywords: Applied Engineering used to sell a 3.5" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that read and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk. I wonder if the drive would work on a mac, since I'm using my old 3.5" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now. Just a thought. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ /~~~~~~~\ \_____ | | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE | | | TT EE VV VV EE | /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |

No, if you put a conductor in a changing magnetic field, it produces a voltage. The two ways you can do that with a permanent magnet is to move the magnet or move the conductor. The slow shifting of the Earth's magnetic field isn't really significant, especially when you consider how weak the Earth's magnetic field is to begin with. Well, it would require generating an incredibly large magnetic field to repel the Earth's magnetic field (as a magnet can repel another magnet). Of course, this force only works in one direction, and the magnetic field generated has to be unimaginably powerful. Magnetic repulsion drops off as 1/r^3, and the earth's magnetic field on the surface is already very weak. It would require some sort of unknown superconductor, and special nonmagnetic construction. And seriously hardenned electronics (optical computers, perhaps). And the physiological danger would be significant (due to the iron content in our blood, among other things). In other words, forget it. I missed out on the "dragless satellite" thread, but it sounds totally bogus, from this little bit.

Not an astute observation -- this is a straw-bullpen. The lefties, Stanton & Mercker are strong, and Wohlers is down learning a new pitch. The bullpen is fine, probably superior. Also false. Gant, Nixon, Justice, Hunter, Blauser present a decent enough offense. EVERYONE is slumping (except Blauser), not just Pendleton. BTW, what is the story with Brian Hunter? Is he in the dog house?

<Stuff deleted> MINOR? You put unsignalled lane change in a MINOR category? Now I know who these guys are...

I would expect that CD-ROM software would not even need copy protection. As the program on a CD-ROM would not fit onto a hard-drive, and it is impossible for the average (and even not-so-average) user to write to a CD-ROM, copies of the software (that still work) could never be made. Hmmm.. now that I think about it.. with a creative TSR, maybe disk-swapping could be used to simulate files on a single disk. You would need a tonne of disks though.

I am considering adding to my 386 system equipped with a 130meg Maxtor HD, a second Maxtor 245 Meg HD. I assume this will not be a problem. However, I remember reading somewhere that to do this, you needed to reformat your original drive ? Is this true ? If so why ? My drive is full and I really don't like the idea of to re-installing everything from floppy!! Please E-mail me, or post to the group --Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa INTERNET:#1 mdtancsa@watarts.uwaterloo.ca Waterloo, Ontario #2 mike.tancsa@canrem.com CANADA __________________________________________________________________ --- þ RoseReader 2.10á P004555 Entered at [CRS]

I am looking for a suitable UART for a project. What I require is a stand alone device (i.e. not cpu controlled) which will receive 1200 baud RS232. Also a nice extra would be a received data buffer. Please reply with any info you have. Thanks,

My 610 is working like a charm.. In fact, if 610's are flaky, I would consider it a great computer even if I had to return a couple to Apple to get a good one.